When you try to make it work with a narcissist when you try to help or support them When you try to make things right The narcissist is never satisfied with anything you do for them They're never happy So sometimes people think what if they just try harder? What if they try to make things right? What if they try to promote or support the narcissist? What if they try to make things better for them, but if any of you have tried this already You will know that it doesn't work You cannot make it work with the narcissist You are wasting your time by trying to compromise with them You should never make any agreements that are in their favor Because it will come back to bite you Any effort you make to support them Will only be things that you regret later down the line Because it's only going to put you in a vulnerable position It's only going to improve that ability to control you because you're putting power in the wrong hands You're giving power to someone who is only going to misuse it Someone who is only going to use it against you Many people think that by compromising with the narcissist And being nice to them That puts you in a position where you are safe and protected And in some situations That may keep them off your back for a short period of time But it doesn't keep you out of harm's way If you have invested all of your time energy and money into the narcissist And then have expectations for a return on your investment It just sets you up for failure It puts you in a no-win situation Where there is no way for you to succeed as the task which you have been assigned Because their idea of love is dependent on a set of circumstances It is subject to conditions and requirements being met If a narcissist is at a low point in their lives And you manage to meet these conditions and requirements It may suppress their arrogance They may be nice to you They may even cooperate with you You won't see some of the most harmful traits and symptoms of their disorder You might see some red flags But they will withdraw their claim or assertion in the face of opposition Because they know that they really can't act out when they're at a low point But when they start to feel like they're achieving something When they start to feel like they're getting somewhere in life That's when their arrogance is going to grow And they will start to think they're better than you Because the more you try to make it work with the narcissist You're just building them up You're improving their lives Until they start to think they're superior They become more arrogant It gives them an exaggerated sense of self-importance Which they already had to some degree in the beginning But now they're more overt They're not even hiding their narcissism anymore It's only after they've suffered a narcissistic injury Whether at a low point in their lives Whether then covert They're not acting arrogant They're not showing you they don't care about anything They're not going to do that when they find a suitable target They're going to be nice to you They're going to cooperate with you And they will be easier to deal with in that situation Because they're at a low point in their lives And they need you to build them up This is when people usually meet the narcissist When the narcissist is at their lowest point When the narcissist is not doing well And if you listen to the narcissist They will even tell you how things were so much better before Maybe they had more money Maybe they were more attractive Maybe they had a lot more going on in their lives But now they have to work harder They have to put on their charm to manipulate you To make themselves appear attractive and interesting And they will go to extreme lengths to do this They will do things that most people won't do Because they already feel like they're at the bottom of the barrel They feel like they're at the lowest possible level As though they're completely useless and worthless So they will do anything to get out of that situation They will take desperate measures They will do things that many of you can't even imagine If you look back at when you first met them You will remember that they were going through something But they made it seem like their situation was better than what it actually was When really, they didn't like their situation either Which is why they were so quick to abandon it to be with you But they exaggerate these things They make it seem like it's more than what it is They tell you they're making more money than what they actually are And whatever they're exaggerating or lying about is what they're looking to take from you They just don't want to reveal that it's what they're trying to do So they try to make it seem like they don't need anything from you But this is what causes them to later become more overt When you start to see the abuse When they've had a narcissistic injury While you're taking care of them While you're encouraging their development Because you're just feeding the beast You're strengthening the monster within them Because no matter what you do for them It's still there That wicked hateful person Who has contempt for people still exists inside of them It never went anywhere But they're so full of themselves That they just take you for granted They lose sight of the significance of the very person who was helping them Because they don't really value you You're just something they depend on As a means of escape from a difficult situation That's all you are to them So when you're trying to make it work with a narcissist You're just a lifeline You're just bringing this evil wicked person Back into their strongest form While they forget all about you They forget about everything you did to get them into where they are now They forget about your significance They forget about how you were always there to help them Because now they have this inflated ego They have this exaggerated sense of their self-importance Now they're back to being who they are You might have done a lot of things for them But once their arrogance begins to rise They begin to entertain their fantasy world Where they are superior They are better than everyone And they should be treated as such While everyone else around them is inadequate When you do all of this stuff to make it work with a narcissist At some point they're just going to take everything you've done for them And just dismiss you as insignificant They're just going to feel like they're better than you Even though you're the one who helped them Because you're just an object of the narcissist You're just something they step on to get ahead So you're just wasting your time trying to make it work with a narcissist Because you're just an object You're just a tool that they use to make themselves feel better So that they can entertain their fantasy world And feel like they're superior to everyone around them And that's when they turn against you They start talking down to you Everything you say is stupid They don't want to cure anything you have to say Because now they're feeling better They've rebuilt their fantasy Even though you're the reason why they're doing better They don't want to accept that They don't want to hear it Because that means that they can't do any better than you While in their fantasy world They are better than most people Which includes you When they see someone who has greater qualities or abilities Their objective is to prevent them first Because they see them as a lifeline They see them as something that they can depend on To provide a means of escape from a difficult situation And then they invade this person's life Until they then steal their qualities and abilities They take anything that they deem to be valuable or significant And when they've got what they wanted from them They destroy the person They devalue and degrade them They assassinate their character They make false and damaging statements about them They smear their name Because this object that is greater than them Has to be put beneath them To support the narcissist narrative of being superior For this to take place, the narcissist has to destroy their source They have to destroy this person that they have imitated Because they wanted all to themselves They're so envious and jealous of your qualities and abilities That at a subconscious level they have to dismiss you as insignificant They have to rewrite the meaning of who you are to them They can't give you the praise and compliments that you deserve They can't celebrate everything you've done for them They can't give you any credit They have to take all the credit for themselves While they are using everything that you taught them They will claim ownership of things that rightfully belong to you Because they see it as something impressive And they know that other people will find it impressive too So they steal it from you They claim it as their own And sometimes you may even catch them entertaining their own illusions You may catch them acting or talking like you do Using words that you use Because they're so wrapped up in their own illusions They believe their own lies They steal qualities from anyone who they believe is desirable or impressive And then they use it to impress other people To make themselves seem intelligent and dynamic When really it's just something they've stolen from other people or from you They've just claimed it as their own And now they're using it to attract other people Who also think that it belongs to them Who also think that it's a part of who they are They don't realise that they're frauds If you try to make it work with a narcissist Don't expect them to use it in a positive way Don't expect them to use it to improve their lives Or to become a better person Because that's not what they're going to do They're just going to use it to gain new supply They're just going to use it to present a false image to other people So that they can get attention and admiration So that they can get compliments and praise For something that has nothing to do with them anyway They have no interest in becoming better people To where they could then give back to the people Who helped them get to where they are now Instead, they dismiss you as insignificant They devalue and degrade you They try to turn people against you You're made to look like a bad person Someone who is responsible for trouble, harm or damage Because the only thing the narcissist validates and supports Is their disorder And while you invested all of your time, energy and money Into trying to build something with the narcissist You will only be left with damage and destruction in the end Thank you for watching I hope this video resonate with you Please like, comment, share and subscribe If you would like to donate My PayPal link is in the video description Coaching inquiries You can email me at coaching at narksurvivor.co.uk Thank you for watching and I'll talk to you soon


Good evening and welcome to episode 303 of the Private Property Podcast. I'm your host, Usamantua Kumalo. So Thursday edition of the Private Property Podcast, and if you're joining us for the first time, welcome to the only Daily Property Podcast in South Africa. Do make sure that you go to our Facebook or our YouTube page to catch up on all the great content that we have already had. To all our regular viewers, welcome to it. You know how we do it every single weekday. You and I have an appointment where we always tackle a hot property issue with an expert who helps us navigate our journey. It is a freezing, freezing evening in Johannesburg today. I know a lot of people, all of us are just complaining if it wasn't the polar, it was also the wind. I saw that in certain parts of the country there's even a bit of snow, so I know lots of us are just feeling the pinch right now. You can see I'm even dressed for the elements because that's just how cold it is this evening. But of course you can, you know, one of the great things about the show is we're going to keep each other company, keep the conversation going down here below as we tackle media residential property strategies to consider in 2021. But before we get to that, you know that you can tune into other great shows that we have across private properties social media platforms. As it is a Thursday, you can look forward to the farming podcast with award-winning farmer Kimbali Mwago. And that also comes to your screens every single Tuesdays at the same time. And every Mondays and Fridays Chad takes you through exquisite properties that you can find on www.privateproperty.co.ca. And so do make sure that if you are in the market for a property that is a show you want to tune into. And that is the home shopping show. And every Wednesdays, Estie Carson is always in conversation with people who've not only walked that first time home buying journey, but have gone on to grow their property that follows from string to string. You can catch her every single Wednesdays at 8pm. Then of course there's us we're always together every single weekend at 7pm. Obviously always making the property so-called better. Doesn't matter where you are in your property journey, this is the show that can help you navigate to make better property decisions. And this evening one of the things I think the thing that I'm very excited about this evening is that we are in the middle of the year and there are certain people who want to get on the property bandwagon. There are certain people who want to sort of re-evaluate how they're currently running their property business and managing their portfolio. So really going to be looking at strategies that you can put in place in the event where you either want to get on the wagon or be you're already here, you're already on the wagon, but you certainly want to get better strategies to help you along the way. And then one of the great things about this particular topic being today, we saw that the Reserve Bank had interest rates remaining unchanged. I know many of us were waiting and waiting with because we thought that they may potentially increase it, especially because the last time they made the announcement they said that they're very likely going to increase it in the next sitting, but they've remained unchanged. So if you're still looking at getting into the property space, we're certainly going to be talking to that. And to help us better get a sense of what strategies we can use to get started with our property journey, we'll certainly better run and manage our property portfolios. I'm joined this evening by Candice von Begg. No she needs no introduction. Candice von Begg is of course co-founder of Property Pick. Candice, good evening and thank you so much for joining us. Good evening, Zahmat. Thank you for having me. Always good to join you on the show. It's always such a pleasure to have you Candice. And I think one of the great things with having you on the show is you're someone who does property.  So you've certainly learned quite a lot in the past few years being in the property space yourself. You know the different fears and reservations that somebody who's looking to join may sometimes have. And I first want us to look at, you know, it is the middle of the year. Let's perhaps just look at an overview of as it is the middle of the year, we've heard of course that the interest rates are going to remain unchanged for people who are still on the fence. We're still not quite sure why they should get into property. Let's look at why property before we look at the actual strategies because we're going to get into that now. Why property? Because I think some people just don't know, they don't quite see the benefit. They're still trying to get a better sense of why this particular asset loss. So first of all, I think it's really good news. I agree with you the fact that the interest rate remains unchanged. So for those people who are still sitting on the fence and wondering if now is a good time to high property at Easter and opportune time. So it's good news for us to know that the interest rate is not increasing anytime soon. And obviously we will monitor that situation, but it's positive news for property investors. And then also, why I believe property is really an awesome investment strategy is because properties also considered to be a low risk investment strategy. And one of the reasons for that is because with a property, you can feel it, you can see it, you can hug it. It's really something tangible. So it's something that exists. And also it's considered to be a low risk investment strategy. Now, I'm not necessarily going to be focusing on all of the reasons why it's considered to be a low risk investment strategy, but rather what I want to focus on is that I believe that there's still an opportunity to get into the property market. And especially at this time, some of you may be looking at yourselves, it's mid-year, July, we're moving into August and you're probably thinking to yourself, have I achieved my financial goals up to this point? Is there still an opportunity to increase my income before the end of the year? And I want to say to those of you who are still wanting to increase your income before the end of the year, I think now is the right time to definitely consider investing in property. But like any investment strategy, we have to do our homework. So we need to know what's happening in the market before we get into that strategy. So I like what Robert Kiyosaki says. He says that knowledge is money. So it's important. Yeah. And I think Candice, when we look at, because you've just mentioned it and I love this idea of doing your homework, right? When we look at then doing your homework, because one of the things that I know many people tend to do, I did it when I started off in our property journey somewhat. Anyway, I started researching when I was still much younger, so sort of 22, 23, only really got serious about buying a couple of years later. And even there, it was just like a soft thing where there wasn't a concrete plan as it were. So I roughly knew numbers. I knew which areas were solid areas to get into. And so when I first bought those first three properties, I know that I also just didn't go in it with having done my homework thoroughly.   And I think it's so important that at the very least, you want to be able to get an A, right, when you do your homework, because there's just certain fundamentals that you want to get right, even when you're doing your homework. So when we talk about doing your homework, Candice, what do we mean? Because I think it can also easily become overwhelming for somebody they may not know what the starting point of said homework actually is. So what do we mean when we say you're doing your homework, especially for those who want to get into the property market? Okay, all good. So there are two things that I want to start with. So the first thing is you need to decide what strategy you're going to be pursuing. Okay, so we understand that there are multiple strategies, but you need to ask yourself, am I looking for additional monthly income, or am I looking for lump sums of profit income? Now, if you are looking for lump sums of profit income, then of course, buying and selling would be a good strategy for you to consider. So buying property at a good price and then selling it at a profit. If you are looking for continuous monthly profit income, then of course, we know that you need to look at properties where you're able to rent it out to tenants and then, you know, collect positive profit income every month. Now, I want to understand what type of income you're looking for and also what strategy you want to consider. And we call the buying and selling capital flips. And then, of course, the rental strategies can vary from student accommodation to ultilets to buy-to-lets. It really just depends on the investor and what strategy you want to pursue at this time. But part of doing your homework, ladies and gentlemen, is that you also need to ask yourself, you want to invest. So which areas do you want to invest in? If you are in Haoting, we're in a Haoting. If you're in the western Cape or if you're in Bumulanga or you know, wherever you are today, ask yourself which part of that particular province do you want to invest in? And then one of the things that you need to do is then you now need to really get information in terms of what's happening in those areas. And generally, when I work with my coaching students, I say, start with the areas that are closest to you. So sometimes we don't have to go across borders or, you know, into different provinces. You can even start where you are. Each one of you is surrounded by a few suburbs or a few townships or communities. Go into those areas and see what's happening. And I think that's a start. Also, I want to say to you is that get as much information that you can on the particular area. So one of the sites that I'm subscribed to, and I'm sure some of you are familiar with it, is Lightstone Prox. I'll share the details with you in the chat box afterwards. But those are really good sites to subscribe to. Subscribe to the platforms. Property pick also one good platform to subscribe to. You can subscribe to the newsletters. And I think it's important to stay connected and stay close to the fire because we get a lot of insight from some of these platforms. And I'm going to be sharing some really interesting information that I've read with regards to the property market and where the opportunities are and what strategies I believe will work best considering the information that I've received. I don't know if there's anything that you want to ask about that, Zama, before I move on. I actually wanted to ask a follow-up question on the area research because this is one of those things that I am also a bit of a stickler for. And there are different ways or different data sets that I like looking out for when it comes to the area. And I know that we could probably spend another 30 minutes just looking at some of the things you should be looking out for when you're doing your area research. Some of the things that could be red flags, green flags, perhaps share one of the maybe two key things that you should that they're part of you that you can be looking out for. But share with us two key factors that you should probably be looking for or looking at when you're doing your area research. Okay, so these are some things that you've got up in a paper. You're welcome to note some of these things. But as part of your area research, it's important to understand what properties are in high demand in those areas. So you can talk to the local estate agents, the local property brokers in your area, and understand what properties are in high demand. So when you talk to them, you want to know is it one bedroom apartments, two bedroom apartments? Is it three whole houses, two bedrooms, three bedrooms, four bedrooms? So get the specifics in terms of what is in high demand. So what are people buying in those particular areas? So once you understand where the demand is, you now know that that's where you need to, that's where you need to focus on. Because you don't want to buy properties that people are not buying and you also want to buy properties that people are not renting. So while you're talking to the estate agents and the property brokers in your area, and I would normally say talk to about three to five different estate agents. Also talk to three to five different letting agents and understand also where people are renting properties. Because the assumption that people are just renting properties in any area is not a good assumption because that's not how it was. In most areas you will find specific areas where people generally flock to and this is where they want to rent properties from. And there will be various reasons depending on the category of tenants that you are dealing with. But I think that's number one, so understand what is in high demand. And then the second thing that I think is very important and this is going to support you with your numbers as well is understand from a buying perspective. So people are buying properties in those areas. What are those properties selling for? So you need to understand that. So are they under 700, under 500,000 or are people generally buying one million, above one million rent? So you need to understand what those properties are selling for. So if your agents are saying two bedrooms are selling in this particular area as well as three bedroom houses, understand what those different types of properties are selling for. And at the same time also on the rental side. So if people are renting property in a particular area, a particular part of that city, you need to understand what are the rental amounts. So what do people pay for for those particular property types? Once again, if it's bachelor units, if it's two bedrooms, three bedroom houses, you need to understand what the potential income is that you can expect on those properties. So I think, you know, it's important to know that as investors, we need to follow the money. So we need to understand where the opportunities are. And that's what we need to focus on. And remember, you're not buying for yourself. So don't look at property and look at it from an emotional perspective because we're not buying property for ourselves. If you're buying a personal property for yourself, of course, you will make your decisions differently. But if you're buying property for investment purposes, then you want to ensure that you are buying in the right areas where the opportunities are where the demand is. And I absolutely love that last point that you've raised, Candace, that we shouldn't be buying for ourselves, right? You can be emotional when you're buying property where you're really searching for your home and you know that you're going to be living there perhaps for the next, you know, 10 years, you want to raise your family there, then you can get a bit emotional about that. And perhaps even you want certain kinds of finishes or even when you're renovating, go slightly over the top. And I say slightly on purpose because you also don't want to put down too much money even in your primary residence. But the moment you are buying as an investor, you have to put on a different hat and all the emotional decisions of thinking, oh, this is just such a great view, you'll pay premium for it. All of those things absolutely needs to go to the side. So now that we have a good sense of, you know, area research and as I said, this is one of those topics that we could probably easily do a masterclass on because there's certainly different components and data sets that you need to be considering when you do your area research, then what would be the next step, you know, especially Candace, for those who are looking and briefly will look at people who are already in it. But what would then the next step be for people who are looking to get onto the property market in terms of the strategies that they should be looking into for the second half of this year? Awesome. So I'm just going to give you a view, obviously, because I mean, everyone here is that's listening today, that's watching is from a different area. So I'm not too sure what's happening in your specific area. But I just want to share with you some general insights that I want you to consider, you know, as you're going out there into the different suburbs in the different townships and doing your research, understanding what's selling. I think, you know, what I want to share with you, so as part of this Lightstone article that I just read recently, what it says here is that by the time this particular article was written, which was literally a few days ago, there were 700,000 new homes added to the property market. Okay, now that's a that might not sound like a big amount, but for property investors, that is an opportunity. Now, it's important to understand where where are those 700 properties currently being sold. And what I want to share with you is it's quite interesting if you look here. So I'm not going to go through all of the stats, but they focus on the under 700,000 rent properties. And then there's also 700,000 1.5 million, sorry. And then there's 1.5 million to 3 million, and then also above 3 million. Now, I've spoken to some people who want to get into property investing. And obviously, some of them may have access to the bank's money, and some of them also have some of their own capital to get started. And they generally think that they need to go for the highest amount. Okay, and that's not necessarily the case. Once again, you need to see where the demand is. Now, just by looking at this particular table that I'm looking at here, if we look at if we take Eastern Cape, Freestake, Hotei, Quasulunatal, Lampopa, Mpumalanga, Northwest Northern Cape, and then also Western Cape into account, you will notice that most of the properties that are currently on the market are under 700k. Now, okay, what do you do with that information? It's under 700k. The next price category there is 700k to 1.5. Okay, so that's where the most properties are currently being listed at the moment.  As I said, I'll share with the link with you afterwards. But if you go and look and see where most of the properties are being sold, it's interesting to see that most of the properties that are being bought are under 700k and then also between 700k and 1.5 million. So I'm not even going to go into the other categories because the numbers decrease the higher you go. So what is that telling us? It's telling us that the opportunities are between 700k and then 1.5 million price bracket or selling price bracket and then also under 700k. Now, this is not necessarily going to work for every area and that is why I say it's also important to go into your particular area and see what's happening in your area where the demand is. But generally, you will find that between under 700k and then up to a maximum of about 1.5 million is generally where the demand is. So that means that most people can generally afford properties within that selling price category. So for those of you who are asking yourself, okay, if I want to buy a property and sell a property, that means you need to find a property that you are able to buy below what the selling price is so that you are able to sell it at a profit and that is what we would call a capital flip strategy. If you are wanting to buy property then and keep it for rental property, it's important to ensure that you understand what the potential rental income is on those properties. And then also, I think it's important to also ensure that you buy at the right prices because if you buy at the right prices, that's going to support you down the line because should the market shift in any way, let's say for example, interest rates go up in a couple of months or in a year's time, you want to ensure that you're still able to collect profit income or positive income on those properties. So be very careful in terms of how you run your numbers. I know it's awesome to hear that the interest rates remain the same, but I always say let's work in that risk element there because we know interest rates will eventually increase at some point, maybe not just yet because of where the economy is, but it's important as a property investor, anticipate some of those increases maybe in the next year and two years. So when you buy your property, ensure that you get the lowest price that you can possibly get on that property. Understand what your market value is on those properties because that will also determine what type of offer you can put in. Many people don't even know that they need to check the market value. They just see what's listed on the various property sites and they think that's generally what properties are selling for, but ensure you also pull a market valuation report on those properties so that you can see what the real price is in terms of what properties are selling for and that will also guide you. And that's such an important thing too to always take note of. I am this evening in conversation with Candice van Vekers. We look at media residential property strategies to consider for 2021. We've been focusing quite a lot on people who want to get their foot in the property ladder and we're going to focus in a little bit on people who are already on the property ladder and perhaps want different ways and strategies to better manage their property portfolio. We are taking your questions and comments this evening as we look at those strategies and we've got one coming through on Instagram saying good evening, how has the current unrest impacted the selling and rental platforms? And I know it's such a short period Candice and I'm in quite a number of different property groups and some are with property professionals, some running, some of the listed companies, some of the listed property companies. Have you picked up any trends in terms of the rental or certainly when it comes to the selling due to the recent unrest that you've seen? Yes, I mean firstly that was really a terrible thing for our country to experience. I'm glad things have really settled down a bit and you know for those people who suffered I really hope that you will be able to pick up the pieces and be able to move on from here. But I think it's too soon really to allow that to impact the decisions that we make with regards to buying property. So I think yes, understand maybe you know where a lot of the looting has taken place. I think it's mostly been in Quasaluna, Dal and Haute regions. But as part of buying property you need to still be focused on where the demand is. So remember people will be buying in properties generally where it's affordable, people are also looking at security and also depending on what strategy you're going to be pursuing. For example, if you're just letting out a property to professionals versus students or maybe young couples, you need to also understand who your client is, our tenants, our clients. We need to understand what type of client we are dealing with and also what they are looking for and we then need to ensure that we're able to meet some of those needs obviously within you know the numbers that you have that you are working on for that particular deal. So I think still look at the demand and allow that to guide you in terms of where the opportunities are. But if you don't feel comfortable in a particular area and I mean we've heard this probably from myself or even other property trainers, if you are not comfortable buying in a property or if you are not comfortable letting out your property to a certain tenant then don't do it. I mean I recently had a situation where I met with a tenant and you know we discussed the property and also what it was renting out for and we started engaging in terms of what they're looking for and I just didn't get a good feeling about the tenant you know and I then decided that I wasn't going to move forward with that particular tenant and after that I found a tenant and I was able to place the tenant so sometimes you also need to follow that gut and especially you know obviously if you are only starting out I would say definitely work with a rental agent but because I'm a little bit more experienced I am able to work through that process myself and you know when you start asking for certain information and your tenant is not able to provide it or there's one story after the other then that starts you know red bells or red alarm start going off you know red alert start going off. So remember if you are big enough you're starting out I would definitely encourage you to work with a good rental agent but for those of you a little bit more experienced I mean we know that if tenants are not prepared to share the information that we need in order to vet that particular tenant then don't take the risk and put that tenant in your property because some tenants actually understand the rights that they have at this time and you don't want to be in a situation where you have to go through an eviction in order to get a tenant out of your property so make sure that you work with the right professionals and also make sure that you vet the information even if I am working with rental agents I still ask them for all of the information because I also want to view what I want to ensure that I'm happy with the type of tenant that they are putting into my property because remember for me it's an investment so I need to look after my investment and that is why you need to ensure that you also understand the process understand the documentation involved review the documentation if you don't understand ask your rental agent to explain it to you so that you know what you're getting yourself into. And Candice then I wanted to you know quickly switch gears to people who already have some investment properties what strategies can they be or not even what strategies should they be using how can they best better how they manage their property portfolio for the remainder of the year because I think with many you've probably already been managing your portfolio even when of course you're working with an agent but you have a portfolio that you are managing and it's now in the year perhaps looking at what should you be looking up for and how can you sort of better manage your portfolio going forward. Yes so one of the things I would definitely ask you is are you able to maximize the income on that existing property so ask yourself are you able to maximize the income what do I mean by that so I mean are you able to apply a different strategy so for example where you maybe have a buy to let in place are you able to convert it into a multi-let so that you're able to generate you know more income or additional income as part of that strategy are you maybe able to subdivide a property and then rent it out as maybe you know a cluster type unit so we need to look at creative ways in terms of how we're able to maximize the income that we already are collecting as part of our investment portfolio and then also if you find that maybe you have a property in a particular area and generally you find that there's not really demand for the type of property that's up for rental have a look at the other properties in your area and understand why maybe your neighbor down the street is able to get you know three to four tenants renting their properties but you're struggling so we also need to adapt ourselves so if you are renting out for example to young adults I mean we understand now that we need to ensure that you know we have got either you've got fiber cables laid in your area or it's a good area for for internet connectivity so there are different different things that appeal to the different category of tenant that you will be servicing so it's important to understand what they are looking for and I think you know even as an existing investor ask yourself are you maybe able to go on to that next strategy you know you've done capital flips you've now done the buy to let's are you able now to move on to multi-lits on to maybe starting with smaller developments and you know progressing from there so don't be afraid remember when we get started every strategy that we get started in you know our heart starts pumping faster because it's something new it's something unknown to us but because we've been through it before make sure that you get as part of that next strategy let's say you've identified a vacant land in your particular area of investment and you're able to maybe bring two or three or four units onto that piece of property start now getting the right information that's going to support you in terms of getting that small development up and running so ultimately I mean sometimes your goal some people just go straight for the kill we've got different you know investors and people have different risk appetite some will start with smaller development deals some will move on straight to bigger development deals but I will definitely say start challenging yourself because obviously you're looking for additional income so not it's not time to move on to bigger deals and the opportunities are still here because we know the interest rates are still favorable we know that properties are coming onto the market I mean whilst we know that people are obviously selling properties because either you know they've they've lost part of the income or maybe they're downsizing whatever the reason is people are also moving for other reasons people are moving for other reasons some people want to get away from the city so now they're looking more for properties on the outskirts of the cities so you know start looking at opportunities like that and see if people are moving away from the city and you are able to tap into a nice piece of land there is there an opportunity for you to develop that land you know and and and then sell it as a as a capital strategy so in this case there'll be lots of learnings at the same time but I mean you'll be able to generally make healthier profit income as part of that capital strategy so I'm challenging you start looking for bigger deals and you know just get out there and take advantage of the opportunities because there are opportunities on the market I absolutely agree with you on that and I think that's such a great notice to leave it on I'm going to share a comment by one of the top fan gang members on on Facebook about the same great practical lessons do your research and it's so important that regardless of which strategy you decide to choose do your research make sure that you are clear on you know what the next steps are if you're really a property investor continue doing your research continue you know investing in yourself and finding ways that you can optimize the current properties that you have and exploring how can you then go about you know firstly better managing your portfolio and then of course growing your portfolio Candice we're going to leave it there this evening thank you so much for joining us it's always such a pleasure to have you on the show awesome thank you so much Summer I really enjoyed it thank you and that is Candice van Veek who's a co-founder at Property Pig wrapping up the Thursday edition of the private property podcast with myself you can look forward to the farming podcast with awarding in Farmer Umbilean while at 8 p.m. I'll be back on your screens tomorrow evening at 7 p.m. until then hoping you're staying home and staying safe


The question that gets leveled as well against the quote conspiracy side is, well, how could so many people be quote in on it, right? Like how could all the scientists, how could all the politicians, how could all these people be in on something, you know, governments can barely organize, you know, anything like how could they possibly, you know, all be in on something like this. And so for me, I really tried to understand, yeah, how is it that people can participate in something unawares and yet somehow be, be willing, right? And I think you're speaking to adhere as well, but also, you know, looping it back to earlier on in the conversation around, like a certain paradigm of, I don't know what you call rational materialism, which is always looking to exert more control, maybe that's like one way to say it. And you wrote an essay called the conspiracy myth, which I think touched on this. And so for me, again, I want to, in some ways, speak to how the quote, the anti-vax side that I've done research in and spoken to, you know, there does seem to be a strong thread of there isn't a various elite at the top, you know, Bill Gates or whoever's in on it. They're doing this on purpose, this and that. And yet you had a really, I think helpful frame on this, which, I mean, I could just read it here actually, if this could be jump off point for this question. You said in the conspiracy myth, I explored the idea that the controllers of the new or older order are not a conscious group of human evildoers, but our ideologies, myths and systems that have taken a life on their own. It is these beings who pull the puppet strings of those we normally believe to hold power, but they, yeah, you go on from there, but basically that essentially it's sort of an emergent property of the system is the way I take it. And so again, I feel like that's really important also to maybe spend a bit of time on like, how is that possible that, you know, people can be involved in something again, unawares on, on, on, on all sides. Yeah. So it could very well be that there are some highly psychopathic individuals among the elites, which is true. Like I should say, yeah, that's very likely true. Like, as in, you know, the hierarchical systems, you know, put people in power that have those. Yeah, so that all the Stalin's, the Hitler's, I mean, there's evidence that we live in a system that actually rewards psychopathic behavior in terms of placing them in high positions of political or industrial or military power. Yeah, yeah. And so there could be a conspiracy among those people to, you know, dominate the world. But if so, the question still remains, why are they able to do that? Given that there must be very few of them. As you were saying, there can't be a lot of people in on it, you know, and you talk to most, I mean, pretty much every doctor or scientist or even politician that I've known personally or, you know, billionaire. I'm not seeing a lot of fiendish evil there. You know, I'm seeing people who are pretty much like everybody else who might have some, you know, blind spots, you might have some, you might be very good at justifying everything that they do. But, you know, not like, like gibbering Mr. Burns schools, like Mr. Burns, yeah, like that. So, so, you know, and even Bill Gates, like, I mean, I think he's responsible for a lot of harm in the world, but probably he believes himself to be doing a lot of good in the world. Probably he believes in this vision of bringing all the world into one gigantic data set that can be rationally administered for the good of all. So, of course, you want to track everybody. Of course, you want to have biometric interfaces in people's bodies that are implanted so that you can protect them and protect others from contagion. I mean, this whole vision makes sense in a way. And that makes it a lot harder to fight what's happening because if you set up, say, Bill Gates as just someone evil, you're not going to understand him. You're not going to understand where he's coming from. You're not going to understand the, the systems and ideologies that will give birth to another Bill Gates and another Bill Gates and another Bill Gates, even if you tear this one down. So, and at the same time, yeah, there could be, you know, satanic elites, human trafficking elites, you know, who, I mean, it kind of even makes sense that in a world that is run along principles of domination and control, that these would take an extreme form in certain shadows of the society. And there wouldn't necessarily have to be that many of them. Like, look how a mob works. All you need is a few ringleaders to say, go lynch that person over there.  Okay. And then the majority of the mob, they're like, well, I don't know, but it looks like everybody else thinks that they're unclean, you know, and need to be lynched. And I'm not going to speak up if I speak up.   So all those people keeping their mouth shut, make it look like the mob is unanimous, when actually it could be a very few manipulative, cynical leaders who may not themselves even believe in the guilt of those that they are inciting the mob against. So take that and, and write it large to our whole society. It could be something like that. And then it brings up the question again, what allows the mob leaders to be so, to be so effective? What is it in our psyche, in our, in our way of being human that allows us to be manipulated, manipulated like that? And this takes it back to these in-group, out-group dynamics, these, these Jordanian ideas that I was sharing before.


Here we go. I started recording. By the way, welcome everybody to this new meeting. Today we're going to have a speech that's largely anticipated on LinkedIn and all the media. And you have our friend, Boba Khabestein from Netherlands. So we love not to waste too much time into introduction. Boba's already gone through one meeting last year, exactly in April, by the way. So it's my pleasure to introduce him again letting me speak about sustainability and supply chain. So Boba, I'll leave it on to you right away to start your discussion, your introduction. Please take the stage, stage yours, you can start. Thank you. I don't know, what do you screen now? I don't think you see my right screen. Do you see my screen? Yes. Yep. With a slide also, hopefully. Yeah, yeah. Okay, perfect. So yeah, we live actually in strange time. If you think about it, we just know how to deal with an international health crisis, COVID-19. And now something is replaced by this Russia-Ukrainian crisis. And on top of that, we already have to deal with all kinds of extreme weather conditions, climate change, inequality, just an MSU. So how do you explain the impact of your organization, not only on the economy, but also in your environment and on people? How do you inform what you do is actually good. You can do that all with all kinds of communication. You can just publish a number of posts out there in the open, social media, for instance. But you would like to have a solid solution, which is really comparable and further reliable. Well, if you think about those two words, you probably already have a solution in mind, because you're dealing with that on a frequent basis. But what you would like to do is to be more transparent really about what you do for the environment, the social and the governance type of impacts. Currently, you have all kinds of reporting in that related to the ESG that's on annual basis. But you would like to move that in the future to really see this on a daily basis and maybe real-time. So you would like to show the world that you and your actions are really sincere and that you practice what you preach. And that's all what sustainability is about. So what we'll discuss today briefly is ESG fundamentals, basically stating what is sustainability, given the definition, some small insight on some of the reporting possibilities there, a little bit more on focusing on the European Union and what is happening there related to sustainable finance and in a particular new taxonomy. Then the combination of supply chains and sustainability. Now as I touch a little bit upon, we have to deal with small and medium-sized enterprises, even smaller ones as well, and what they can play for a role. But I think the most important part is actually what I really ask you to pay attention to. Act now, because we really have to become climate fit. Trade and supply to the plan as you can use really as an incentive to make the change possible and to use self-shift to a future proof of business. That's not only from a corporate perspective, but also from a banking perspective basically. So if you think about it currently, sustainability is really a container concept. If you look out in all kinds of articles you see that we're sustainable. We have a sustainable product, our product is green. But what do they really mean with it? Because there's so much terminology around it, it's extremely vague. It also provides really all kinds of means of typical word of greenwashing. So we'd like to avoid this. So then it's good to give some kind of definition to sustainability. And in this case, you can use the pillars of the ESG, free pillars to describe basically sustainability. So you describe it in environmental sustainability, social sustainability, and government sustainability. So some examples of environmental sustainability you think about then energy efficiencies, the carbon footprint, the biodiversity, but also the amount of water you actually use in your operations. As an example of the social sustainability is that you think about labor standards, wages, human rights, supply chain management and the effect of that on the whole supply chain. And governance then is more about what is the composition of the board. Think about how many women friends are represented there. As well as the compensation, how much do you pay them and if you're involved with bribery and corruption. So these are kind of means to define what is sustainability. But in the end, why are you so interested in this sustainability thing? Well, one of the things, of course, you hear a lot in the news and as a company more and more forced to actually report on it. And when I hear also in the news is that we refer to there are a lot of extreme weather conditions which are experiencing as well as information from the IPCC, all kinds of reporting that we actually are having to face what we're dealing is doing wrong and what we have to act. For me, it started more than 25 years ago as a student, I started to be involved with research on nuclear infusion which is basically trying to recreate the sun here on earth by putting two melting two particles together in which that really is this energy. So it actually could be an energy source which is controllable and can replace gas, oil and coal and actually be a new energy source to the mix of solar, wind and water energy. I hear at that time also many discussions and some nice presentations where climate change and the problems related to it became very clear to me. So for like, this is really interesting research I want to be involved with but unfortunately the broader public didn't know it and then around 2006 you had the incoherent truth on Elm Gore and we saw this extremely nice documentary it got a number of prizes and people started to act a little bit on it but really the necessity to really change became not really clear yet. At the moment you can actually see a really nice documentary on Netflix on David Etterberg called The Breaking Boundaries that's describing how he and witnessed in his lifetime the changes of the world and basically describing that we are breaking or extending the boundaries of our earth basically to destroying our own home our planet earth. So people are more and more aware of it and as well as because of all the publications out there in the media but if you think about it actually most of the wheels start as a community from a political point of view also in countries that have started to be involved and interested in this is willing to find a place team with the Paris Agreement. In the Paris Agreement they decided that we actually should not exceed two degrees Celsius rise of temperature and actually we would like to keep it at 1.5 degrees compared to pre-industrial area and then in 2019 we had a European dream year where we described that we would actually have a 55% reduction of greenhouse gas emissions in 2030 and another good example that what we discussed is in Europe we would like to be the first climate neutral continent in 2050. Well on top of that 2021 we also had a close close statements where we really wanted to achieve net zero and this one and a half degrees so not even two degrees but we're limiting ourselves to the one from five degrees protect ecosystems and habitats mobilize all kinds of fans because if you want to achieve this you need a really huge amount of investment not only from the financial institutions but also from the private industry and investors combined and more more collaboration basically you cannot think that the rich countries can do all their own and the poor countries can do that on their own no I think the rich countries should really help the poorer countries to achieve this and how to deal for instance with the rising sea levels so that became some kind of standards and discussions on how we can actually limit this but we also heard that actually yesterday with the new report of the IPCC we really have to act now because we have discussed a lot there are some nice initiatives but that won't be sufficient to achieve because we actually would like to achieve and how but became that possible to actually make that statement well with that we actually require some kind of reporting and you want to actually report that you make impact what is your effect on the economy the environment and the people so in that case you want to be very clear about what you mean how you put your reputation forward how that means for your client for your employees what it does for your customers and also the community operating so for that you can use report but then you come to another problem and that is basically what is a good report and then you have two things you have standards and frameworks and that already gives itself another discussion which needs to be cleared up and we try to do that so a standard it's more something you agree on a quality requirements that we think is acceptable and we can use it for reporting so and also the reporting entity accept this a few examples which are out there in the market related to sustainability reporting are these which are presented you see a lot of nice symbols with acronyms for instance the global reporting initiative the GRI or the EFRAG European Financial Reporting divisional group all kinds of nice integrations I don't know my heart that's why I have to look at them also so next to standards you also have then frameworks that's basically guiding principles helping you to share your thoughts now do you think about this in public but there's no really reporting obligation related to it so there's a difference between the standards but it already gives you and helps you give aid give insight so on some examples on that you see here for instance the TCFD the European financial reporting the task force on climate-related financial disclosures or the CDP which is the carbon disclosure project and in the middle actually C1 probably all recognize that's the United Nations sustainability development goals so yeah this helps you more or less as a company or as an financial institution to use something to be able to report on and a lot of that information is also being reused by other agencies ranking agencies which also give you a lot of information so they basically use all kinds of information but basically used or reported on by public and listed companies unfortunately if you start comparing with them they have quite a huge defiation between each other if you look at the ratings for credit from these companies there is basically an overlap or correlation or relationship between them of about 99% so you can doesn't matter which one you take you basically get the same result but if you start looking at ESG rating then the correlation is likely well 50% so it really depends which one you take and therefore it's a little bit of a trick to use these numbers so you really have to go into the structure right there because the kind of black boxes you have to understand how they use the initial data and how they come into the final result but this could be very useful to be able to show and use for all kinds of reporting for yourself or for your company so these are ways to actually give this transparency either by reporting or you use ratings from rating agencies in the European Union we also have something which is called the European sustainable finance strategy this is basically a strategy which helps to put more financing to sustainability and make this transition possible so we actually are achieving the goals which are presented for instance in the European Union and therefore we would like to have all kinds of regulations which basically promote sustainable investments you manage your finance so risk much better and also make this shift from short on thinking to long on thinking and there are a huge amount of regulation possible there and they all have the means to provide transparency so you see here a huge amount of words but I would like to focus this one on only one of them and it's your taxonomy well these regulations as I mentioned really give transparency because they give or use the same criteria about to describe what is a sustainable product that provide greater transparency on the sustainability risks that provides you this framework for all kinds of objectives and they promote cooperation because collaboration is important we cannot do this on your own sounds also familiar if you're very much involved in trade and supply chains so the taxonomy is basically the building block of many of the regulations in the European Union gives you an assessment of sustainability it's basically a classification system with criteria to describe which activities you perform as a company can actually be defined as being sustainable and they have to be then contributing substantially to a few environmental objectives they do not have harm the other objectives which actually are defined and it also should meet minimal safeguards in this moment it's only focusing on environment in the later stages that will also include the social and the governance aspects of sustainability as well so the taxonomy in itself already gives a company a tool a tool to show and to make actually an assessment of sustainability themselves and show their impact not only in the environment on the social and governance so basically on the economy the environment and on people so that that can help you to manage your reputation to manage your risks maybe as a company you already have to report on this so you also have a complaint and the number of companies which have to be report on this is also growing over time currently it's only related to public and listed companies but in the long run even a small and medium-sized enterprises should be reported on this and also as financial institutions should also have a look at this and report on this how green they are in their whole ratio related to the amount of loans and finance they give how green they are they also will start thinking about do I want you and your client and your finance actually be part of my thinking book itself so how easy it is actually to get access to finance becomes also very important so in that perspective you also make your future profile in business so the more green you are the more likely it is you will have access to finance and be able to run your business in the future as well and do all concepts and fastens to even become better so therefore the ATOX economy is just a small building block but extremely important and it is not related only to the european union but it will have effects also your whole supply chain and therefore on a global basis so sustainability and supply chains are quite intertwined with each other on ATOX and I think they can provide also a solution to these two challenges because if you think a little bit more about the ENSS energy the environmental solution governance you can also relate them together again with the sustainable development goals from the united nations for instance environmental then you come to decent work industry innovation sustainable cities and communities and partnerships and goals if you think about governance then you also have the effect on it on clean water responsible consumption light below water life on land climate action and social then we talk really about no poverty civil hunger good health gender equality peace and justice and if you think about it if you would provide enough money to your supply chain participants and they're able to provide a living wage they actually have a huge impact on working because we're providing a living wage to all your participants in the supply chain you make it possible there is no poverty you avoid hunger so there's zero hunger you have good health and health being you provide the chance for good quality education gender equality you're reduced in inequalities in that perspective as well you provide the chances of clean water and sanitation affordable and clean energy decent work and economic growth industry innovation and infrastructure and I think that actually you're touched most upon which are already presenting this overview of the development costs from the United Nations so this little aspect has already a huge impact on your supply chain and if you think about it as a company you also have maybe different value drivers why you want to do things why you want to invest in digitization or data management to name a few data management ownership process automation you would like to have more transparency you will want to be compliant you want to improve your data sharing and as I also mentioned basically a year ago Andrea mentioned the presentation I gave at that time I also showed that what Chen can already help you in that perspective to build trust to announce the transparency reduce costs make it more possible to collaborate support paperless trades and also in this case you can actually support sustainability because it's just a side effect of all the other value drivers you have if you want to have more transparency in your whole supply chain with that you can basically also more insight on the effect you have as a company and your whole supply chain on the environmental social and governance parts because if you look a little bit more about the supply chain it starts with raw material sourcing you would like to show that if you produce these shirts that it's organic cotton no child labor has been involved so the end user is very happy with that that you manufacture or something that you also want to show that you're not polluting the ground where the factories are and why you are actually distributing it that you're not using very much dirty exhausts of trucks for example but this is only looking upstream again if you think about supply chain and sustainability you have to look at the whole chain so you also have to look downstream the usage of it and the end usage of it and actually this is still a very linear process and one of the goals is also in 2050 to be a climate zero as the first continent in the European Union then you have to think completely different business model but then you would like to be more circular so then basically start reusing a lot of your materials and there's very little waste so you also require very little new materials and sourcing but at this moment about 80 percent of all the carbon commissions are part of course by global supply chains because nothing is happening in the near vicinity a lot of production from the richer countries are happening actually in the poorer countries so you cannot state like okay you have to solve it we have to do this together so you have to look in all kinds of possibilities of how to deal with that and example is really that you can reduce the greenhouse gas emissions the amount of emissions you have from CO2 for instance and that has been measured also in three different scopes as they call it first one is a direct emission which you basically caused by the operation of the company the second one is indirect and it's been caused by the energy or electricity you use for your operations and the third one is the indirect emissions that's basically all the emissions from your value chain so that also includes your suppliers your distribution logistics your business travel so a lot of things related to that become then whole part of the whole supply chain so it's not only you as a company you have to see the whole supply chain so even for just measuring the greenhouse gas emissions and specifically for which is called free emissions you have to understand the whole supply chain but there's a transparency place part of that and as you know blockchain can provide help to increase the collaboration and transparency but what can you do for instance if you just think about the decarbonisation possibilities in your whole supply chain but let's start of course with raw materials so you can source green or use much more of the recycled products and materials already so instead of really being linear we already try to be more of a certain business model if you do your manufacturing you want to improve the energy and efficiency of the processes you want to use other energy sources so instead of using energy from coal gas or oil you maybe use already energy from your sunopernos which you have on your business or you use hydrogen which becomes available and at the same time you want to use more and more recycled components well if you do the disabusing of course it's very obvious that you can think about an electrical fleet also here you have to think more about your energy and your operational efficiency and the renewable energy part of your operations in general can also play a huge role and affect already and to your users of your product yeah we can promote there to be more sustainable and the system will use it so fit and if you then think about if they want to dispose of it that you promote actually to the user that they use it longer maybe you can reuse it and otherwise use second plant reselling of course it all depends on the type of products you're involved with services or it becomes much more difficult so this is a supply chain the effect of sustainability and just a few measures that's already helpful by decarbonisation of your supply chain but we also know global supply chains about 80% of them are seaborn so we have to also be able and deal with shipping and if you don't think about it if you are involved with shipping you also have to enter the port and if you're part of a port you're part of a complete and difficult ecosystem where many parties are involved in and even here in this part you would like to make this much more efficient not only but collaboration between these parties where again blockchain can provide fantastic means to share information on a methanol basis and give insights and transparency when it's required there's more involved in it and you can use all kinds of nice technology on that because if you think about it a port is nothing else than a funnel for goods which are coming in and leaving either from the seaside or from the hinterland side more inside so now which way you go you can see it as a bit of a funnel where a lot of things are happening before the goods are distributed again so here you can think about all kinds of initiatives where you can optimize the flow through this whole port ecosystem by announcing much more in advance when a ship is coming the efficiency inside a port can be actually also much better when you know when a ship is coming you know exactly where the goods are on the ship as well when you unload it you know exactly when it is being unloaded so the company which has to pick it up can already be notified in advance when you expect it to be available when it's already available and a lot of the information already has been shared in advance customers can already decide if they want to clear it just now or they want to inspect the container in advance for the goods a lot of the paperwork therefore can already be done in advance instead of the extremely linear process which currently is the case with the help of digitization you can already speed up things to make it a little bit more parallel so the port in itself you can think of a system which benefits a lot from a digital twin we can follow the goods on an electrical way you know exactly where the ship is coming in by all kinds of measurements you know exactly how the water is moving so you know exactly when a ship can be actually docking on the release in the goods when it can be picked up when it can get through cleanings from customers be picked up at the end and actually leave to the next modality out in the hinterlands so with the help of all kinds of digitization possibilities where port check can provide a huge role you can actually optimize this movement of goods through the port and with that of course that has a huge impact on the environmental solution and governance perspective of course if you think about digitization you'll have a huge impact on education, business work and economic growth industry, innovation and infrastructure sustainable cities and communities as well as partnerships because you can do this on your own so it's all about data collaboration between all the stakeholders you can improve the flow of information either it's digital or still on paper but at least you would like to improve the documentation flow and as I mentioned with the help of port call optimations and just in time arrival of goods ships and all the communication inside this ecosystem you can improve a lot of the communication and also the speed of which goods are arriving in the port as well as leaving in the port with the next modality if you think about health, safety and security if it's just following the latest procedures and think about safety think about how your personnel and your visitors actually are have to fill this with lines when they're actually on the port society that you of course have all kinds of security in place but also that is still an accessible area and not just completely closed and difficult to access and enter and leave as well as you can optimize all kinds of inspections of cargo as well as the passengers itself and what becomes more and more important is also cyber security because the more we are depending on the intersection we also have to be aware that we have to be secure and in control of all the data and not all the data becomes really available to everybody so you can also think really about the environment when a ship comes in instead of using its engine when it's lying in the cage you can provide all kinds of means of cleaner energy help them not pollute the water inside the harbor as well but make sure that there's fresh water available when you bunker that you also think that they are not just from their litter over the water but you have a collection and so you can reuse and recycle a lot of the materials they actually not use on the ship anymore but could be used for other processes and therefore you protect the habitat thereby the first in the clear surroundings of the port and climate and energy is also quite obvious in the perspective you would like to use more and efficiency of the energy you use, think more about the circular economy think about reusing more and more renewable energy as you mentioned previously also as examples you can reduce the carbon footprint a lot footprint a lot think about clean ships alternative transport fuels so they're also actually polluting less so all kinds of initiatives you can actually do make visible and transparent so you have a huge impact on sustainability and therefore your whole supply chain by also picking what is the right port not only from perspective what is the best way to cut it as quickly to my client or my customer but also what is the best impact if I use this in this port because it has a better impact on the environment or from a social global feminist perspective because that becomes also very important so next becoming climate fit you have to understand that as we explain a huge and important role because about 90% of all the businesses over the world are actually small million sized enterprises and provide about half of all of the employment and these companies are also very difficult to really know where to start because they lack access to knowledge access to finance they don't have the right incentives because they are only one to produce produce produce or deliver deliver deliver because you asked for it and they cannot make a huge investment so we really need to help these small million sized enterprises with help of knowledge of course but also if you would like improve efficiency or scores related to sustainability in your supply chain you have to give them incentives and one of the best ones is actually to provide them is access to finance give them incentives to actually improve their services because in the anti-benefit from it so here trade finance as well as supply chain finance instruments can play neutral you can give them discounts by delivering quicker for instance so supply chain finance actually helps because you would like to have sustainable operations in the end that creates financial benefits so it supports a sustainable strategy which in a terms helps with the supply chain management so in the end you have better operations and financial benefits so you really feed the wheel in order to make this huge impression possibilities and improvements in your whole supply chain and give the rights and incentives to all the players in the supply chain so what I hope I've shown you and what you discussed is give you a little bit of some of the fundamentals of ESG some of the standards talk a little bit about e-toxonomy the solutions to some of the challenges which sound very easy they're hard to achieve but I think they're really easy to to incentivize by finding the right instruments in this case you can use financing trade finance or supply chain finance to really create incentives to really make the changes possible so with that it's easy to become climate fit you can use these instruments of the trade and supply chain finance to incentivize this change and you can in the perspective if you can achieve that privately as a business in the future as well so with that I want to conclude and at least thank you for your time hopefully you have some questions and we can have some nice introduction to a fantastic discussion thanks Bob thanks for the presentation by the way it was insightful as ever as it was the last one that you had in 2021 I wanted to ask you what do you see the role being for DLTs and blockchain and the picture that you just talked about what role can it play in this in achieving ESG and sustainability development goals thank you very question Andrea to me I see this as a fantastic infrastructure to provide collaboration between all kinds of parties in the supply chain the collaboration can be used in order to exchange the information used to exchange data because that is a big huge problem that data can be anything helping your supply chain and with that related it can be any data element reflecting anything related to sustainability in the EDS or the G so that perspective I see it as the infrastructure which is required to exchange the information to collaborate but really in such a way because it is trust what you see otherwise is that you have some kind of central solution where all the information becomes available companies don't want to have insights don't want to give that insight maybe put it that way and at the same time you're done bound to this one system and I think for all supply chains you require different solutions so again DLTs can provide this infrastructure to connect all of the solutions you require to do your business in a proper way and to make really the whole supply chain transparent and therefore gives efficiency to your operations and to your guts as a whole as an ecosystem hopefully that answers your questions Yeah, is there anybody that wanted to make a question to Bob? I mean that was great by the way, Bob and I wanted to ask you also one more thing and you see how do you see I mean the interaction into this not only DLTs and blockchain but other technologies to the envisage I mean I see the blockchain really is this infrastructure which can help you to monitor all kinds of events happening in your supply chain and with that again trigger all kinds of other actions which are required and sometimes that can be automated because it gets a trigger for instance from an IoT device or a location based on the location of your ship the GPS signal you can also trigger something think about I'm an exporter I want to deliver goods and actually we describe based on the income terms basically when it arrives at the K of the foreign country that there that's the time that means like I fulfilled my requirements then the location of the ship together with maybe that your container also receives a signal from a GPS messed again together with the clearance signal from customs can trigger already the payment and you don't have to wait for all the paperwork being done by the bank of the customer you have in the foreign country so therefore you can speed up and processes and have been much more hold of your own money again and improve your working capital so it's a trigger yeah events and create transparency because of that and automation of all kinds of other related processes and I had some transparency without violating the principle of independence let's say abstractness upon which you see the International Chamber of Commerce the ICC several balls based on trade fund solution think about the LC they're all commitments revocable and independent ones so undertakings by the way so they are not linked to operational side of the contra and stuff like this contra has nothing to be able to do so entering into the new world into a new space where transparency is definitely enhanced without violating without breaking totally what's been done over the centuries so it's kind of an evolution maybe leading to a revolution but at the stage like so it's an enhancement rather than real revolution exactly and because of what is required for that the transparency in losing this infrastructure of course we need standards and as I mentioned in the beginning you already have standards frameworks and even many different types of standards so we have to make it feasible and possible possible that they actually all interact with each other and have the common language because we have to be able to speak the same language if we deal with each other but also this is extremely important and this matches perfectly with what's been done you see in digitization in the standards that has been drawn by the DCSA by the Singapore Digital Standards Initiative you see we're talking about different standards technical ones and other standards for ESG but you see the purposes they're always the same speaking the same language just one other question you know that my background is still deeply into Africa, Middle East and those developing countries how do you see ESG and SDG into that particular space of emerging economies LDCs you see how the cold has developed countries what are the challenges in your opinion and the opportunities for those countries in that space it is clear that there is a huge challenge there it is not that we are in the developer world can say it's your problem because much of the production we actually are not doing ourselves anymore because we outsource it over there so it's not like okay now it's there resolve it so we really have to collaborate on this so we would be able to provide them support not only with knowledge but also the AI's finance to make this transition possible so also that they make it much more possible to make this transition to a much better and sustainable environment and better world actually the example of living wages is already an example that you actually can improve many things over there without doing a lot of effort yes it may be because that your product becomes a little bit more expensive but a little bit here makes a huge difference over there also help them to think about how can we improve the energy consumption of our processes how can we make it possible that we're using actually renewable energy much more than coal, gas, or oil which are easily abundant for this country's phenomenon and the only source of energy they have so it requires a lot of collaboration sharing knowledge and a lot of funding thank you does that answer it does indeed just a last question from my side and I'm going to live on to the audience we often hear about the trade finance gap which is huge one it's in trillions only all how it works you see why there is this gap we've discussed so much in that picture being that white trade funds how can these topics be of any support namely as I often say the redefining the data structure the data quality the data in themselves you see in reframing the way evaluations in trade finance is done how do you see that that perspective also by using DLT it helps actually to get more insight in the data of the company and in the supply chains and who are the involved with which countries so for them it's easy to use this technology this infrastructure to create data to actually create a credit rating which is most of times lacking for these companies because there's no history on that so it can build actually this history next to that it becomes much more important to include the ECG factors in the credit rating of the company so the more you actually show of the transparency and your ECG factors the better it also is to get this number into ECG in your credit rating and if you also know actually who are your buyers the big corporates which are using your products you can also start using that credit rating and their scoring to actually get better financing because they also can provide your concept means and that because you know if you have a purchase order from this large company you actually know that this is a large lower risk that you're not getting any money so therefore it's much easier to get financing so it helps to create a credit rating the sustainability factors are affecting more and more in the credit rating will be part of it but also if you provide this transparency and you show with us your whole supply chain and you're the supplier of which companies and if they're really large ones you can benefit from their credit rating as well wonderful Bob now there's a caffeine slider that is ESG scoring in SMEs makes good sense I mean thank you for this I mean I'm living on to the audience now it's up to me to shut up I know it's a lot usually let me tell you I'm justified to do so so I'll leave it on to the tenants to make some question to raise hands and I encourage them because this is a great chance to have Bob with us today it's a good chance for for getting some very interesting insights I also know I presented a lot and maybe there was way too much way too quick so yeah maybe have to do just on it but yeah if there's anything you would like me to repeat or explain a little bit more please let me know as well there is a question from Marina Pachevich she asks which blockchain framework you recommend for building the collaboration for ESG goals am I correct in interpreting BC as blockchain yes I would interpret it that way as well Andrea yeah so I think this is a very hard question because it really depends which are the players you would like to achieve something what you would like to achieve what are your requirements for this and based on that you can define what is then the best blockchain framework you can use for this because it all depends what you would like to achieve I don't say there is one solution which is better than the other it really depends on the use case the participants in the efficiency you want to create and how open you would like to share it as well because maybe you want to do it for a close amount of participants or you really want to do everything out in the open and do it extremely transparent it all depends really what you would like to achieve and what type of data you want to want to exchange in which way there's now the question from Sara Faraz she asks digitalization is key to DLT use case in supply chain and trade funds but without cross-border digitalization how practical is the use case with blockchain your thoughts in the current limited scope please it's true that cross-border digitalization is the biggest issue but you can think of it there's an amount of single windows for countries which are out there which help you to digitize part of your trade and by just connecting these two different digital single windows with the help of this type of technology yeah you start to create a common knowledge certain standard of how to exchange information with two countries or two continents whatever you want also we have depending on what you want to exchange at what time pushing control there are different ways of doing this but in principle you would like to have verifiable and comparable information so we understand what we're really doing and somebody can really check that the statement you make is really the right one so this is not just limited to a country or a continent we're talking about global supply chains so it is required that we do something on cross-border and even within a continent there's so much trade going on with different countries so yeah cross-border becomes part of it not only for the trade and the information collaboration possibilities but also for the payments hopefully that answers your question so for us there's another question from a friend Daniel what role will the eyes of 2020 immigration play on cross-border digitalization it's a very nice question because I've been involved in the past with the bank payment obligation which is using basically a lot of the messaging within the eyes of 2021 standards which is actually already a nice standard in its own because it's combining and reusing a lot of understand standards so and it's developing in that perspective so it becomes already a single useful language to exchange information so unfortunately this is still on measures basis but it provides you a framework at least to talk about the same thing in the same way in a controlled and structured manner so I think eyes of 2022 is one of the possible formats of digitalization possibilities you can use for cross-border trade a list of the companies thank you Bob I'm sorry I couldn't be visible virtually it was very very good to get that high perspective way in the sky and so I want to thank you for that you're welcome so there's another question from Marina again and I quite like that she's making questions do you think that would be possible to create a system tool for self-assessment ready to use your companies and supply chains I'm convinced that it will be possible if you think about for instance example I gave you the e-tux on me there are a number of tools available where companies can actually do this assessment themselves maybe some of the questions are still hard to answer and you require some help but in principle it's all managed to make the assessment yourself as a company so you actually get a good overview of your sustainability overview related to in this case the activities you perform on an environmental perspective and how aligned you are with the rules of regulation they actually put forward and that can be shared with for instance financial institutions so the moment they give you finance they also know how well aligned their finance is if you use it for the activities of your country of your company and with that they have really good nice easy means to report it to the regulator themselves so yeah I foresee that it will become a number of self-assessments available for your company not only on environmental but also more and more on the social and the governance perspective and it will require also much more in the future so to have insight in your supply chain and therefore it will help you unfortunately currently it's still an assessment which is probably done with a lot of manual efforts on an annual basis but if you use more digitization and technology like DOT or blockchain you can basically with the push of the button get the insight at the moment how well you're doing for each of the single trades or for your whole portfolio and your experience over the whole year month whatever nice question thanks yeah hi Bob this is Daniel Auriglia in fact also Italian I heard in your last statement there you you made a marked a difference between blockchain and or DLT do we need to make that distinction or is DLT kind of a sub a subgroup of BC I don't want to burn my fingers on this on this discussion because it really depends we're talking to you have notorious with making use distinction if you can use the New York or the abbreviation DLT or blockchain I use it from a business perspective basically to be single in one it doesn't matter or it's a part of which is better or worse I don't know I use it basically as intertwined terminology from a business perspective hopefully that answers your question because I think it's very difficult to make this statement to burn my fingers on it I don't think I do yeah I you're very you're very good you're very neutral which is which is the way it needs to be thank you for answering you're welcome thank you for asking any other questions for you shot the entire attendance Bob I bought him to death probably do you want to shot them or whether you have a fully let's say exhausting you you gave the full outlook you say there's no need to make question to raise hands I'm just boring no it's not an interesting topic so nobody has any questions you just want to fill the time I think I go okay I mean that's I encourage everybody to make questions suppose their own question if any otherwise we can close the meeting and you see hi this is Daniel over there one last question I didn't recognize in the the rating portion of your presentation one of the groups the MS see you said you didn't remember all of them but I guess this presentation will be made available by by way of the hyper ledger yeah and to comment on that it's not an extensive overview it's the names or the initiatives I'm aware of myself relate to standard frameworks I don't intend to be complete and I don't think I have to complete picture myself either so just as a little note on that part but yeah it will be shared with the group and available on the hyper ledger wiki page thank you so much yeah it's going to be available also I'll never link the page shortly you see just the time to upload recording on youtube channel it's about if no other questions is in the pipeline think we can close the meeting this way and I wanted to thank you so much for this continuation actually of last year see first meeting it was insightful as ever so thank you so much for being with us today and we start from these you're welcome it was a pleasure if you might have any questions afterwards please don't hesitate to reach out to me or any of my colleagues at the value department we can hopefully provide you with answer ourselves and if it comes we can relate you to the person who might be able to do so and use our network for that so thank you once more and hope to see you soon again see you soon again and we're going to be back in two it's time if you have time it's going to be thirsty so I hope to see you again have a nice continuation of the day and thank you so much thank you Bob it was great to have you today see you soon bye everybody thank you bye ciao Mario thank you Bob bye bye Marina ciao everyone I'm writing ciao Marina thank you