Welcome, everybody, to this session at OER 22. Thank you very much for everybody who has already said hello in the chat. Please do continue to introduce yourself. And it is a very special privilege for me to introduce today's speaker, who is going to share with us a session on open e-textbooks for access to music education, outputs and reflections. And with me here is Lorna Campbell. Hi, Lorna, very warm welcome. Hi, Madden, thanks for the welcome. It's lovely to be joining you. And I should add that it's just going to be me that's talking to you today. My academic partner, Nikki Moran, is actually on sabbatical at the moment. But the project that I'm going to be talking about would absolutely not have happened without her. So if we're ready to get going. Yeah, to do any over to you now. Brilliant, thank you, Madden. So today I'm going to be talking about open e-textbooks for access to music education. And this was an exploratory open text books co-creation project that we ran at the University of Edinburgh from February to October last year. Together with our team of student interns, we actually spoke about this project at last year's OER conference when the project was just getting underway. So this year I'm back to reflect on the outputs, what works, what didn't, the impact the textbook had on developing teaching and learning enhancement and the experience of our student partners. And I'm also going to be introducing Edinburgh's new e-book service, Edinburgh Diamond. But first a little background. And if you heard us talking about this project last year, then you'll have to forgive me for going over a little bit of the same ground by way of introduction. So at the University of Edinburgh, we believe that supporting the creation and use of all kinds of open education resources is strongly in keeping with our institutional vision and values to discover knowledge and make the world a better place. And to ensure that our teaching and research is accessible, inclusive and relevant to society. This vision is backed up by an OER policy approved by our learning and teaching committee, which encourages staff to use, create and publish OERs to enhance the student experience, expand provision of learning opportunities and enrich our shared knowledge commons. And to support this policy, we have an OER service, which is where I work, that provides staff and students with advice and guidance on creating and using OER, engaging with open education and developing information and copyright literacy skills. Over the last 10 years, the university has shared a wealth of open content with the global knowledge commons, including hundreds of open education resources, Wikipedia entries, open licensed media resources, research data sets, open journals, historic images from our university collections, and of course MOOCs and free online courses. Now MOOCs have been a cornerstone of the university's commitment to opening access to high quality online learning opportunities, widening access to knowledge and community outreach since 2012, when the university signed up its first partnership agreement with Coursera. And since then, the university has launched over 88 MOOCs, running across three platforms and engaging over 4 million learners. In order to ensure that course materials from our MOOCs are easily accessible to all users, high quality videos from these courses are released under open license through the university's open media bank, where they can be viewed and downloaded for reuse and repurposing under open license. And there are now over 650 videos from 25 MOOCs available for free download and reuse from open media bank, with more content being added every day. So please do go and have a look at this resource and feel free to help yourself to anything that you find there. One of the university's earliest MOOCs was Fundamentals in Music Theory. This course was developed by senior lecturer, Dr. Nikki Moran and colleagues at the Reed School of Music and launched in Coursera way back in 2014. The course introduces key concepts behind conventional Western music theory, providing students with the skills to read and write musical stave notation and to apply this knowledge to analytical listening. The Fundamentals of Music Theory MOOC has run continually since its launch in 2014, and over 450,000 learners have participated in the course over the last eight years, making it one of the university's most consistently popular MOOCs. The continued success of this course demonstrates evident global appetite for music literacy education by adult learners, and also highlights demand within UKHEIs for fast track courses in music theory and notation, skills which have historically defined the disciplinary distinctiveness of music degree curricula. In 2019, with support from the university's learning design service, content from the Fundamentals of Music Theory MOOC was repurposed to create a new credit-bearing on-campus blended learning course for undergraduate students. Key improvements to this course included the addition of learning outcomes, addressing students' critical and contextual awareness of the course content, new content addressing global curriculum decolonisation issues around music theory and music education, an extended resource list and a course textbook, accompanying the video lecturers repurposed from the MOOC. Talked by Nikki Moran, the course has now run for three years and is an integral component of the Bachelor of Music degree programme. Although staff and students at the University of Edinburgh have created and shared a wide range of open education resources, until recently, there's been relatively little engagement with open textbooks. Although a number of our academics have independently started creating their own open textbooks using GitHub Pages, these textbooks primarily cover programming and technical topics and are available to access and download from open.ed. And I'll be sharing these slides in Discord afterwards so you can access all the URLs. In late 2020, Dr. Melissa Highton, Assistant Principal for Online Learning and Champion of the University's Mission and Vision for OER, suggested repurposing content from the Fundamentals of Music Theory MOOC to create an open textbook, which might be a useful way to explore the practicalities and affordances of reusing existing open content to create e-books. We brought together staff and students from the Reed School of Music and the OER service and succeeded in securing a student experience grant to undertake a small exploratory project, open textbooks for access to music education. And this was a really small grant. I think it was about 3,000 pounds or something like that. But this funding enabled us to employ three part-time student interns and partners. Ifina Chukwu ends in Madu, Anna Reina Garcia, and Carrie Ding, who worked part-time on the project for a period of five months. The primary aim of the open textbooks for access to music education project was to explore the potential of providing access to free, accessible, adaptable open textbooks in a convenient and reusable open format, ideally suited to hybrid and online learning. Using existing content from the Fundamentals of Music Theory MOOC and on-campus course, the project set out to create a prototype open textbook that could be used for undergraduate teaching within the university and made available more widely under open licence. The development process enabled us to explore and evaluate... So, you're now... Sorry to interrupt you mid-flow there. Just a moment ago, the slides stopped moving. So, sorry to interrupt you. I just wondered if we could just restart the slide share so maybe we can get the correct slide up. Of course. Let me just stop there. Sorry about that. That's okay. We're having all the technical gremlins today. We do indeed, yes. Sorry about that. Just to make you feel... Let me just get them all out of the way of course. Just to make you feel extra welcome, but... I could see in the comments the chat. So, sorry about that, everybody. No problem. Let me just try again. So, you should be seeing a slide saying aims and objectives. Can you do that? No, just at the moment, we're just seeing the opening slide in PowerPoint. So, I wonder whether we're seeing that now. Okay. So, what are you looking at at the moment? So, we're seeing the PowerPoint window with one of the big slides aims and objectives, but we see that we're basically not seeing the presentation mode. We're just seeing... Right, you're not seeing presentation mode. So, let me just try presentation mode one last time, and if it doesn't work, we'll just stick with this view. Yeah, don't worry. Has that come back to the opening slide again? No, it's still on aims and objectives, but I'm not sure what you may need to do is click manually through the slides in the slide window next to the, like, in PowerPoint, basically, not in presentation mode. Let me just... Then we'll be able to see the slides. All right. So, can you see the slides now? Yes, we can see your mouse now. We can see you moving around. Right. So, well, let's just stick with it. Sorry about that, Lorna. Absolutely fine. Don't worry. Like I said, if we can get all the technical pictures over and done within this presentation, hopefully that will be running smoothly for the rest of the week. Apologies. I'll keep an eye out now and I'll give you a shout in case anything happens more. OK, right. Well, hopefully that will be the last of the gremlins. OK, so where were we? So, using the existing content from the Fundamentals of Music Theory MOOC and on-campus course, the project set out to create a prototype open textbook that could be used for undergraduate teaching within the university and made available more widely under open licence. The development process enabled us to explore and evaluate different open textbook platforms, learn about the logistics and practical processes of creating open textbooks from existing content and whether it will be feasible to extend this model to further open textbook projects. The experience is particularly valuable at a time when universities are increasingly moving from print to digital textbooks and are facing rapidly rising textbook costs, which is a serious problem for university libraries. At the same time, the project enabled our student partners to develop valuable digital and copyright information literacy skills, including an understanding of open education resources, open licences and open e-textbooks, familiarity with current e-textbook applications and experience of working with existing digital content and education resources across a range of platforms. Excuse me. So, owing to COVID-19 restrictions, the entire project was undertaken online from March to October 2021. Microsoft Teams was used to facilitate project work and a project blog was set up on the university's academic blogging platform, Blogs.Ed, to enable us to capture and reflect on findings and disseminate outputs. The project was managed by the OER Service and Dr. Nikki Moran led the development of the academic content of the textbook. The project team made weekly to plan activities and our interns were encouraged to coordinate their work with each other, so we really did encourage co-creation of this project. Digital skills development about open education, OER, open licensing and academic blogging was also provided at the start of the project. One of the first tasks undertaken by the team was to evaluate a range of e-book platforms in order to identify a service to host our open textbook. The students evaluated four platforms, manifold, press books, get-up pages and open monograph press, which the university library was implementing as the basis of a new e-book service, Edinburgh Diamond, and you can read our interns' evaluation of all four platforms on our project blog. Given the short duration of the project and limited ability to get new software running on university servers at short notice and without additional resource, we decided to publish our e-book on Edinburgh Diamond, which was still under development at the time the project was underway. So Edinburgh Diamond supports the publication of academic and student-led open access books and journals. The service provided by the library helps academics and students publish or migrate their own online monographs... Oh, excuse me. The telephone call, I beg your pardon. Open monographs, textbooks and edit collections and provides a host of platforms, training advice and technical support. Edinburgh Diamond incorporates the university's successful open journal service and supports the publication of a wide range of academic and student-led open access journals. The service is provided free of charge to University of Edinburgh staff and students and there's also paid for shared service for the Scottish Confederation of University and Research Libraries and External Partners. And I should add that Edinburgh Diamond isn't affiliated with Edinburgh University Press. That's actually a different business. Edinburgh Diamond is the service provided by the University of Edinburgh Library. By electing to publish our book on Edinburgh Diamond, we were able to take advantage of support provided by Open Access Publishing Officer Rebecca Wojterska, who oversaw the process of assigning ISBNs and DOIs and publishing the book to the new platform to coincide with the launch of the service in 2021. To co-create the content and structure of the open textbook, our interns worked closely with Nicky Moran to collate and organise videos and transcripts from the original Coursera MOOC, text content from the on-campus course handbook and new material covering music theory in contextual critical global context. The textbook is designed to be suitable for all entry levels of learners and is structured in topics rather than chapters so that users can follow the content in any way that is useful to them. Our interns' thinking around the content and structure of the open textbook provided valuable insight and input to the Coursera MOOC and on-campus course as well, particularly in relation to how rudiments of musical notation is taught. The project spurred on new development of the MOOC and the production of new revised video material and additional content. And the MOOC was relaunched with this new content at the beginning of this year and Edinburgh students have already benefited from the new video material in the on-campus Fundamentals of Music Theory course. For reflecting on the project, Nicky Moran commented, in terms of the quality of teaching and learning that these students have received, I believe that they've had great benefit from the reflective cycle behind this e-textbook project where the students' interns' input and development of my original teaching materials has brought about further teaching and learning enhancement and I also expect this e-textbook to be an important asset in future for on-site students. And, in turn, if any Chukwends and Madhu commented, I was able to contribute towards repositioning some of the topics to allow for a smooth transition between topics in a way that is simplified for somebody new to music theory. Hence the inclusion of student agency in the creation of the e-textbook will not only be transformative for the interns' student-teacher collaborative experience, but an extension to other students who will use the final textbook. Our interns each took responsibility for editing and formatting individual sections of the book and creating new graphics and illustrations were necessary. These sections were then brought together into a final golden copy which was reviewed and proofread by Nicky Moran. And having the input of a single academic and subject specialist was absolutely critical to the success of this project because I have to confess I know absolutely nothing about music theory myself. In order to make our open-textbook as accessible and reusable as possible to teachers, learners, and the wider public, we've made it available in four different formats. Word, PDF, flowable and fixed format e-pubs. And the videos accompanying the book can also be downloaded directly from our open media bank. An HTML version of the book has also been created and will be added to Edward Diamond very shortly, hopefully. The book is licensed CC by non-commercial share alike and it can be downloaded in its entirety or as individual topics in different formats. So onto lessons learned. What did we learn from all this? One of the things we learned was that having multiple editors working on different sections of the textbook although it enabled us to produce the book content rapidly. However, despite using a set word template, formatting inconsistencies crept in as our interns were using different versions of Word. And although these minor formatting inconsistencies have little visible impact on the word and PDF versions of the files, they often had a significant impact when generating the e-pubs. Now these issues could be mitigated by all editors using the same online version of Word and by a single editor managing the golden copy once all content had been assembled. And while it's relatively simple to create a basic e-pub from using Adobe InDesign, more complex formatting, type setting and graphic design was beyond the resources of the project. So what I'm actually saying here is that I had actually never used InDesign before so I was absolutely learning on the hoof here. I was actually generating the e-pubs and my InDesign skills are very, very basic. So if we were going to produce more open textbooks through the OER service in the future, then really what we would need to do is to commission the design of basic InDesign templates with appropriate University of Edinburgh branding and open licensing, etc. That would make things a lot easier and more straightforward. One drawback of publishing our open textbook on Edinburgh Diamond is that because Open Monograph Press is primarily designed for publishing scholarly works and managing editorial workflow, it doesn't automatically generate the individual book files from a golden copy. So as a result, all the individual files and formats have to be generated and managed manually for each section of the book. So in our case, that meant manually creating a total of 53 files plus associated style sheets and graphics. So fixing a single typo that was spotted after the book was published, despite proofreading it several times, necessitated editing, recreating and re-uploading 10 separate files. In addition, the platform workflow, particularly around the allocation of DUIs, is perhaps better suited to scholarly works and open educational resources. However, the experience we gained from this proof of concept project means that it should be possible to amend the production process for future open textbooks. So now on to the really important stuff, though, the student experience. Our students responded extremely positively to their experience of participating in this project, engaging with OER and contributing to the co-creation of an open textbook that will directly benefit future students. And they also really, really enjoyed participating in the OER Domains Conference and presenting their work there last year. So Anna commented about the conference. It's been a great experience to participate and listen to what other colleagues in OER had to say. Every day I am learning more about OERs and the infinite possibilities and applications that exist. And Ifie Naitukwu said, attending other seminars by speakers from around the world, further opened my mind towards understanding OER in a broader perspective. The OER Domains Conference has not only broadened my understanding of OER, but also challenged me to think about OER as a multi-dimensional art. I really love that quote, a multi-dimensional art. And in this final reflective blog post on the project, Ifie Naitukwu went on to write, OER means opportunity to me. The opportunity to share knowledge of a subject in a more accessible format that is mostly not bound by financial capability to access the material. Hereby creating a channel that facilitates equal educational opportunity for all. Through this project I have developed a better understanding that OER presents flexibility for students, teachers, content creators and end users to have access to the content, to modify and adapt materials in a way that is not usually permissible via traditional textbooks. So to conclude, I think it's fair to say that the open e-textbook for access to music education project successfully fulfilled its aim of exploring the creation of an open textbook using existing open license content. And the project has actually, the textbook has now been downloaded over 2,000 times over the world and Dr Moran is already working on a second edition of the textbook and two of our student interns will be rejoining us to present the project at the University of Edinburgh's internal learning and teaching conference in June, which we really hope will encourage other colleagues to consider creating their own open textbook projects. We really hope that the publication of Fundamentals of Music Theory will be a valuable first step in enabling the university to shift towards the use of open textbooks across a number of undergraduate courses. This would benefit the university by reducing textbook costs, benefit staff by providing them with access to easily customisable open textbooks and benefit students by providing them with free, high quality digital learning materials. Furthermore, open textbooks and OER have the potential to facilitate the democratic reshaping of teaching materials through student engagement and co-creation. So, all in all, this was really a hugely rewarding project, not least because of the enthusiasm and dedication from the team, from the Reeds School of Music. So, before I finish, I just want to say one last enormous thank you to Dr Nicky Moran and our student partners Anna Reina Garcia if any took the ends in Madu and Carrie Bing. Thank you very much. Thank you, Lorna. Thank you very much. I just posted a link to the book in the chat as well. So, fantastic to see all those resources. We have a few minutes for any comments and questions and I know I think a few have already been posted in the chat including InDesign is not for the faint hearted. Oh, you're telling me. I'm the clearest thing about it. I am not a graphic designer at all. I mean, really not at all. We ran this project so quickly with so little resource. I mean, I was working. This was also in the middle of the pandemic and we were trying to support hybrid and online teaching. So, I was literally like, how the hell do I use this? And I think the thing with although there's lots of online resources about InDesign, it's such a complex. You can do so much for that. It's quite hard to know where it starts. Well, I think nice comment here from back who really enjoyed the presentation and I could see Anna and Rob and I think Sarah are also posting in the comments. Are there any other comments or questions for Lorna before we finish this session? Do you please post them in the chat? I did have a question myself Lorna if I may while we wait for any more to come in. It's great to hear more about creative disciplines like music and art in OER and I think in the last few years we've seen more of this. Do you think there was a particular music flavour to this particular project? Did the subject matter make a difference to your approach? That's a good question. I think maybe it did because like I said, a lot of content that went into this text book is quite old content and I think the fact that the MOOC has kept running just shows how much demand there is for open resources for music education in these sort of creative subjects. I learned a lot from working with the staff and students from the Reed School of Music just seeing their approach to how they develop the content and how they structured the text book in particular the way they thought about the different ways that people would access the content of the book. I have to confess I'm actually quite a linear thinker and seeing the creative approach that they brought to how people might interact with this content I certainly found really inspiring. I certainly really appreciated the opportunity to work on a creative project like this. Thank you. We've had a couple more comments in the chat so there's one here from OpenEd Research saying it's great to hear from the students in your presentation and to find that they get a lot out of co-presenting at conferences too. This is the thing we never saw kind of five years ago. Do you want to comment a little bit more on the student involvement? Oh yeah I mean it was like I said the funding that we used for this project it was from the student experience grant and this is a very small pool of funding in the university. I think some of it might even come from alumni I can't quite remember off the top of my head where it comes from and it's really the funding is there for students to do creative stuff to enhance their own experience so although we were creating an open textbook and we had a very sort of like we had our own aims and objectives really the primary aim of this project was to give these students an enjoyable a beneficial experience and they certainly as you can see from their comments they learned a lot about open education, about open textbooks about affordances of open education in the OER but they really really enjoyed participating in the OER domains conference they found that hugely enjoyable. Now of course one of our students, Cahiding, has already graduated and moved on Anna and if any chick were have moved on they're still at the university so that's why they're going to be able to come back and present their learning and teaching conference but they really did find it a very sort of empowering experience and again they all wrote little reflective blog posts about the conference which you can find on the project log and yeah one of the things I really appreciate about working with student interns is they bring such a fresh perspective to the real benefits and affordances of open education which I've been working this domain for so long and you know I'm absolutely committed to it but to see it through somebody else's eyes is just really inspiring Wow it sounds like you've inspired our whole audience there's a lovely comments in the chat here good to challenge students to think about how they would teach music to those who it is a new topic a lot of love for this particular project for you and your collaborators Lorna is there anything final comments that you want to say before we wrap up? Not at all just like thanks for all the comments I look forward to sort of like having a quick look through them and I will be sharing resources from this presentation I'll share the project log, I'll share the e-book I'll share all the resources in Discord and of course you're very welcome to ask any more questions there or of course you can always find me on Twitter as well Fantastic Wow from everybody here at the OER22 conference thank you so much Lorna to present this really exciting inspiring project and thank you everybody who's joined us in the chat conversation will continue on Discord so thank you again Lorna Thanks a lot, bye


Some of you are familiar with Dan Millman's work and the way of the peaceful warrior and Socrates. And I think when you watch that movie, it's just the same kind of take the trash out, empty the mind. It's the same stuff that we're working on. It's all the same pathway, but it's so compressed when you have a teacher-student relationship, you know, where Dan starts to work with Socrates. At first he thinks, crazy old man, and then he meets Joy, and who's also has an enduring relationship with Socrates, and he starts to fall in love with her. But it's so intense, and there's so much rebellion and so much resistance, you know. I mean, from the beginning, you know, when he really wants to have the mind training and so he agrees to meet Socrates, you know, out by the bridge or whatever. And he's still torn between his grades and his schooling and all the self-concept things he's in. So he's late, he gets there late, and then all he does when he meets his teacher is offer up all these excuses.  And that brings his anger up in a hurry. He is hopping mad and soaking wet. And those kind of things, when you're living in community or when you work with the teacher and when you give the teacher an open, direct invitation, help me point things out to me, expose the ego, help me let go of this pride and so on and so forth, you get an extremely accelerated journey. And that movie is a good example of that. You know, it's a speed-up, working with Socrates. And it's a tremendous teaching device, too. It's tremendous transformation that comes from exposing the pride at that accelerated rate. And then finally getting to a point, at one point in the movie, where there's a chance, a hope for a real significant transformation, like knocking off 9,000 thoughts at once with an ax. And he's so defiant and so rebellious that he goes out and he gets on his motorcycle and he just goes at high speeds, dodging in and out, paying no attention to traffic lights or anything like this and shatters, absolutely shatters his leg. So the choice is between going for a tremendous transformation, a tremendous transformation of consciousness or an ego-guilt sabotage of shattering bones, just shattering part of your body, you know, and the mind, you can see him take that choice. Then he's got to come all the way back from all of that to come back just to come back to that point of humility to come back to make that big choice again. So that's important to keep in mind, you know, for those of you that are here, is long-term volunteers and so forth, you're taking the road less traveled, you're, you know, you're taking the accelerated one, and that movie is just a reminder of the intensity. But what you're doing, there's a purpose behind it. There's a purpose there. The purpose is healing. The purpose is to have that transformation.  Even when he finds himself in the hospital, you know, he, there's a visitation, but he's pushed that out of awareness too. The teacher is even there to visit him, you know, to join with him and say, you know, it's not a problem. Even this shattering thing is not, is not, cannot really hold you back, but we're faced with those kind of decisions.


and welcome. I'm James Milan and you've come to Talk of the Town. Today we're going to be talking with clinical social worker Anne Westcott who has been at her practice for decades and who I have to say has also been my good friend for a number of decades. Anne, thanks so much for joining us today. It's a pleasure to be here James. I wanted to say that you know in talking to a number of people over the last couple of weeks it has come clear to us here at Talk of the Town that there are a number of what could be called front lines in the in what we're dealing with at the moment these extraordinary circumstances of the pandemic and I see you as somebody who provides therapy who provides who instruction both to fellow people fellows who are also practicing therapy themselves as well as your own clients and patients etc. I see you as being on one of those front lines so what I'd like to do today is have you as best you can provide open the window a little bit on what your own experience has been and therefore kind of shine a little bit more light into what is happening behind a lot of closed doors like like I have right here in my house and you and yours. And I in mine yeah definitely. So to begin with give us a sense of like what your work is like generally who what kinds of folks are you in contact with what are the different aspects of what you do so then we know you know where you're speaking from. Well my clinical practice has predominantly been focused on supporting families and children. I had as I have a specialty in working with children impacted by trauma and severe psychological stress so ironically that's a kind of something we're all experiencing right now unusual conditions isolation. So right now I actually do a mix of things I do direct practice to children and adults and then I also do a lot of consultation and training of therapists so I feel like in some ways I'm trying to support the frontline clinicians who are really working all day every day trying to support people as they can and then I'll slip over and be one of the frontline clinicians during part of my day meeting a lot on phone and telehealth. So yeah you know it's you're another example of something that we again have discovered which is that we are all familiar because you hear it all the time the drumbeat from the from the the media etc is how many people have been idled in this country. We however here talk to the town happen to be talking to people who are as busy or busier than they usually are and it's just an interesting thing to point out so I'm sure that you also are that that is also the case for you. I was wondering to start with what you can tell us about now that you're having to do everything you do remotely so with your own direct the direct services you're providing to to clients how has that been impacted by the fact that you have to do it in some other way at this point. Yeah when I think about what's happened for me and when I listen to other people I think the thing that's surprising us the most is how many people want to continue meeting. How many people you know are reaching for it finding it really important creating the most amazing ways to meet. I have clients that will get in their car and put their phone on the dash because that's the only place they have any privacy. People going for walks during their therapy session holding the phone next to them because that's again a place where they feel like they can get a little bit of space to themselves. I think that's a kind of surprised all of us that when there was no option besides you know zoom or telehealth or internet people were good have been so amazing about making it work. Yeah clearly the the need is hasn't dissipated at all and in fact it is probably increased from their end yeah and so therefore people are it's unsurprising in some ways although kind of heartening to hear that people just figure out you know use the ingenuity just to figure out how to do that. Adaptive and resourceful and I do think the needs are changing rapidly too. What we were addressing you know for me when I was working with clients in the room that's really helped us think about how to support people in these new conditions with a whole new set of worries and they're all over the map. And I feel like there's like either the quadrant of people who are working super like a lot with heavy stuff frontline hospital medical but also you know I have a few people I work with where teachers and here they are some of them are trying to run a class online with their students while their own kids are home trying to study and then we'll have other people who have nothing to do and are really you know in that kind of almost on pause and so really different experiences. Yeah and how much of what you are doing in terms of seeing the clients that you have seen for a while now how much of what you're doing feels like okay a natural progression and just moving forward with what you've been working on throughout you know some period of time how much of versus how much is really just almost completely dominated by the current conditions and the effects of COVID you know COVID-19 concerns. I think you know it's a really valuable question because in some ways I think the crisis actually like magnifies those places that people have had struggles prior so the themes that we might be working with like with you know some kids I have you know if there's conflict like in the family this is a really hard time for separated or divorced families to negotiate child transfers back and forth. I mean that's always a little tough time for kids and families and that's when it's blended but now with COVID it's at this whole another layer and around safety and who's in the home and the tension there and just trying to help people talk it through and think it through and and not take kind of boundaries for health as as you know hurt by it or feeling pushed away or rejected or not getting what they need. So and also in another way like I have a wonderful people that I work with who are worrying about their elder parents in a way that prior to this it had been kind of managing aging parents and how do I cope with you know should they be driving I've got to get them to doctor's appointment in their own stress it's a whole another level of worrying but not even being able to go go to them or meet with them and so it feels like it magnifies the previous things we were working on and then for some people it brings whole new things up. Do you you know if and it certainly makes a lot of sense to me just hearing that the things that you already work on would be magnified would be exacerbated as so many things have been so many kind of low level kind of things that fester constantly within relationships or in larger contexts have just been you know exacerbated by by what we are all dealing with. How does that affect you by which I mean um are you able just to to address so now folks are are even more anxious or concerned or fearful or or all the things that you deal with. Do you find that you need different techniques for yourself to be able to address those things or are you just kind of doubling down on what you've always known and done and how do you deal with that? I'd love to hear how other people what I can really share I know what I do is what I have been reaching for is things that are extremely useful right now in the moment that can help people you know calm something if they're starting to really blow up or actually find some energy if they're finding themselves super tired and depleted and frankly the very things I use with my clients I'm using with therapists I support and then I'm trying to practice them myself. Give us examples of that kind of thing. So one of the things I did um really the first week of COVID I said okay and in a morning I had a few minutes before everyone else was up and I said what is it that I do in a day that helps me like be my best self like bring my best self forward you know just not about COVID just like in general and I made a list of like 10 things and it turned out it was crazy it was simple things like go outside get some exercise spend a little alone time for me I really enjoy yoga so that was something I thought okay do that make a good meal go to bed and get up at the same time uh something get dressed in the morning shower and get dressed like there were these really simple things very concrete very doable right not some pie in the sky thing like I'm gonna meditate every day for half an hour and I just committed to try to do those and have been stunned at one I should do them without COVID because they're really good um but two I could feel and I could look at a day when I hadn't done them and I could see how much more stressed I was at the end of the day seeing people um and over time the other pieces I realized and I don't know what people are doing for work but zoom is incredibly fatiguing the screen is really rough on our nervous systems hmm and I think teachers and therapists and maybe people like you um but kids are ending up spending a lot of time in front of the screen and um right we were already worried about the amount of time that children spend in front of screens or all of us but for all human beings like I realized wow it makes me irritable when I get off it it makes me kind of tired and a little foggy um and it's really easy to spend a lot of time on it and not realize I haven't moved from my chair I had that experience we are speaking in the afternoon and this morning I had an interview and it was a very compelling one and talked to the person for a little while afterwards talked to my producing colleague yes found out when I was getting up oh my god I've been sitting here for an hour and a half and that's not a good thing yeah um so if I like take that to like working with clients like in the moment right now like if we weren't a little constrained by the camera I'd be getting up and showing people some things they could do to make their bodies feel better and um even with clients they might be stressed or emotional and sometimes I'll just say well just cross your arms and just rhythm back and forth or do it on your legs or just move your feet back and forth um and these simple little things can actually start to make our bodies feel better so there's there can be like a a clear line going from body back to mind in the same way as we are familiar with trying to get our you know starting with our mind and trying to get our body to do things yeah that's enormously helpful too it is and and I teach this a lot when I teach um people parents trainers whatever basically one of the neuro thoughts is that for about every one you know a telephone line down from our thinking brain to our deeper brain our body and our emotions there's like one line down for 10 lines up but turns out if we can get our bodies moving we can much more quickly get ourselves in better headspace and usually calm down a kid or it's like I I have a my mother-in-law here or a stressed out anxious um senior if you have them living in your home so I'm so glad that you've mentioned that because of course your own focus as you said is generally working with children and their families um but yeah there are a lot of us I myself included and yourself included now who have uh you know older members of our family here in the house and they I have found through my own experience that um you know my mom who's here just cannot get enough stimulation uh she can't supply it for herself in general it would happen from being able to go outdoors and engage in different kinds of communal activities and those are simply lacking and then of course you have that add on for the older population that so many of them are not comfortable uh with this the very technology that the rest of us are using kind of to survive in a lot of ways and especially to connect yeah so uh I don't know what what what what do you have to offer for me and those of us uh similarly situated good suggestions for what we can do uh in in the situation to mitigate things um if you're any place where you can go for a walk with them go for a walk um it just the human contact the other piece for us that's really regulating for kids and parent and grandparents and all of us um as long as we kind of check out and have permission is touch contact um hugs um little massages even walking arm in arm a lot of elders would feel better if they could hook in with you and kind of use you as a support um and just that warmth and that touch contact is really good for our immune systems and regulates us and um one of the things I've been hearing from people who are alone in their apartments or homes who that don't share is that it's now like week three for people and they're starting to really describe this kind of depressed anxious feeling from lack of human contact yeah literal contact right literal touch contact not just social contact like where we can get through a screen but that yes that touch contact as you were saying and yeah that has seemed to me right from the get go here as wow we are going to be as a society paying quite as a globe I guess really paying quite the price for that physical isolation that is so vitally necessary to get through this but it's so bad for us in every other way it seems like yeah we're we're social animals we thrive in connection maybe not too much I think that's another piece that's been really important is encouraging people even in their cramped places like and I do this with myself and parents like talk a lot about can you find like a safe place or a little bubble that can just be your child can they create a little space somewhere and kids like oftentimes like tunnels or forts or cozy spots but this idea that at this point when we're all on top of each other it's like we all need our own little sanctuary then have to be big but one place where we know it's just us um and you know if you're lucky enough to be able to fashion that for yourself you are lucky because we have in previous conversations we've had um recently we have spoken to people who either themselves or who study those um or in some way are in contact with the many many many millions of people who do not have the luxury of having a room to themselves as I do right now in my own house yeah but instead have to find some way to carve out what you're talking about I think within a situation in which already four people are crowded and now they have eight because they've brought their family members back in with them back in yeah are there I mean does it need to be fit are there techniques to try and do that that aren't necessarily physical uh you know a big piece of a big piece of it is reducing sensory input so sight and sound and for children they for kids particularly they like little nooks you know it could be I had one kid make a nook between the wall and the um couch I mean so it was like a four or three foot square it wasn't a big space but it was their little space and they you know put up things and put pillows in it and it was just this little cozy spot they could go to that was they knew you know that's my nook when I need a little away space and it was still in the family living room you know that's I'm just a little aside that that's so it's just kind of resonates for me because um I don't know if you have much viewers are going to be able to relate to this very popular series been on tv the last few years stranger things in that series uh one of the main characters and spends a lot of the first season in this kind of fashioned little den this little cave uh underneath a table and uh we had in our house that was on at one point and we had a couple of kids between five and ten who were just walking through they weren't watching it or anything and they looked at that and they said whoa that is so cool and they just they weren't paying attention to any other aspect of it just this little thing that this little home den that had been uh that had been kind of fashioned and they just were so drawn to that yeah yeah and we found that even prior to covid that was one of our real tools for helping kids with um trauma and severe stress because there's a sense that we all feel better when we're kind of in a safe space when we feel you know protected and and right now a lot of us are finding our homes to feel a little it feels a little safe once we get in them and for kids who are creating that space again yet another level for them um so how about uh you know how much do you deal I think again primarily you're looking at supporting children and then also the there those who are supporting them how how much of what you are um how much of your own energy and how much of of what you're thinking about and and doing is kind of addressing the adults in that situation how it is that they can both best support their child who clearly has certain needs and then and then themselves as well yeah I would say curiously that um about half of my practice is working with adults because one of the ways we really help kids is helping their parents and um a lot of times for my adult work um a big piece of it has been helping them just normalizing what's going on around them and their responses is so familiar and universal and so many other people experiencing the same levels of stress, fatigue, worry, tiredness, hopelessness at times and and then also like the tension that's springing up in families there's I mean I had a little girl yesterday said yeah mom and dad had a big fight you know as we were talking over zoom and I'm like yeah there's a lot of parents who are really kind of getting snappy with each other and grumpy and just normalizing that yeah it's not personal it's what happens when we're all you know pushed up against each other and we're all um nervous and worried and um so a big thing for me is having parents want to have me and their therapist be able to process someone share some of the emotion and have somebody able to listen where they don't have to worry about its impact on them a lot of us some um can hold back our own worries because we don't want to make our partners or our spouses or somebody more worried so we kind of sit with that ourselves sometimes in an effort to help but also leaving us a little isolated and and sometimes then our partners don't know why we seem preoccupied or or why we're short-tempered and there's this wonderful doctor from LA Dan Siegel who's just amazing has a lot of resources and his website would be good to look at but he has this lingo he says name it to tame it that if you can name what's getting wild in you enough to name it to someone next to you all by itself it'll quiet a little bit well so uh because you've you've you've opened the door to something else we want to make sure viewers leave here with and that is some resources uh that they can follow up on things with um you just mentioned uh Dr Siegel did you say yes and do you know his uh website um i do at dansegel.com is i mean just his name and he has a wonderful um parenting book out called the whole um whole brain parenting um and you can just google him and he has a ton of mindfulness and parent um exercises things people can do that can help regulate them and their kids and i'll have a list of um materials that we can make sure to have available in print great great and we will we will get make sure that we uh include those graphically that that information graphically when this interview goes out into the world um let me ask you about something that you mentioned uh earlier and that is the particular um difficulties and uh yeah just the difficulties of dealing with custodial shared custodial arrangements and children right now um have you found i i know anecdotally of some situations in which one of the parents does not have access to their child um for because it's been decided that it's best and safest for the child just to stay with the parent that they happen to be with yeah that is that a very common thing that you are finding a common situation that you're finding is that the best um you know is that is that what is often best or safest for the child do you do you have anything um that you can help help that can help illuminate that for us that situation yeah i think um what's the crucial part is being able to have a dialogue um a collaborative conversation with your co-parent really about the multiple risk factors ironically the child's you know right now we're learning from the scientists at least the doctors that children are less at risk um younger children particularly i mean i think young adults are definitely at risk but one of the questions is the risk that it poses going back and forth to everybody in each family and i think that's a place where people's nervousness can really get high not knowing who's in one house that might have exposed the child that could then bring it to the other house and back and forth and not knowing you know being there it's hard for people to evaluate the level of safety each house is doing and that's all members in the house not just the partner so maybe you know if you and i were co-parenting maybe i have confidence in you but maybe you have teenagers in the house that you can't really speak for and so i think recognizing that this is short to medium term it well loosen up and trying to find alternatives if it does happen that when kind of the shelter in place happened the child was in one home for visits that can happen virtually for regular times that the child can be in touch and the other parent and child can connect um i think that can help go a long ways i have sometimes there's active covid in one family and then the quarantining has to happen and that can go on for a long time yeah and i'm i don't know that you that there's any way of knowing this kind of thing in any definitive sense i suspect there isn't but um do you do you feel like uh whatever is lost for the parent and the child who are not in contact with each other for however long this goes on as you said it could be short to medium term it could be weeks into you know longer than that um is is is your assumption that that's that's a recover you know whatever pain is inherent in that happening is something that you you know you people both parties will get over so to speak um i actually feel like the way it unfolds for the child the least amount of conflict and stress that the care that the parents have coming up with the solution is the best for the child which often means as adults we have to deal with our distress over it not going the way we need and want and put our needs second to what's best for the child that sounds like parenthood to me yeah and you know parenthood sometimes stinks it's sometimes really hard work and it hurts and yet you know that's part of the part of the responsibility of parents is to make decisions best for all not just our own desires i still think no contact is different than regular contact that's not as rewarding like i said you know i was really surprised my clients have really valued meeting with me in a way that i did not know it would be so important and i think a child really values meeting with their parent they can't physically be with on a regular basis right so it may not touch that egg in that empty place but it's going to mean a lot and it may go somewhere you know it may get ease it a little bit soften it a little bit yeah so if you happen to be the parent who is fortunate enough one would assume although not for every minute of the day are you going to feel this way but if you're in the parent fortunate enough to be in you know to have the child your child physically with you um perhaps you need to stay mindful and make some some real you know selfless moves for the benefit both of your co-parent and and and your child themselves to create as you said you know more opportunities for for your child to be in touch with their co-parent and i do want people to know that the parent who has the child with them all the time is not having an easy go of it either that's right and there are parents with kids and they're working full time trying to work while the kids are in the house and it's you know it's trying to help the kids get to school work if there's you know if that's happening yeah there's internet crashing for everyone at the same time who's in school and working and so it's it it isn't a walk in the park the other way either yeah so and this has been a fantastic conversation um i think that people listening in are going to be leaving with um a bunch of you know stuff they might not have thought about but also some really good strategies for addressing different things that are coming up because of our weird weird weird living uh conditions and working conditions yeah moment really appreciate it um let's talk just as a last uh topic and i'll i'll want to invite you to mention anything we haven't covered you think is important but as a last topic how about yourself and others uh similarly situated the caregivers in many ways those who are caring for others and giving of themselves in that way who's who's caring for you how are you how are you doing that for yourself but you've talked about it a little bit but uh you know what can we say for those who are in that caregiving position for what resources they they can access or what techniques or or things they can do for themselves um one is connecting with colleagues letting people know um hearing how people are doing um and sharing stories getting support that way is big um i think for me i think we're all still figuring it out people everybody i talked to was unbelievably tired at the end of every day and unsure now that it's past the crisis point and it's turning into kind of more this can be a long-term um process and we're realizing that i think everyone's trying to figure it out mini breaks movement um giving yourself like a screen free day if you can on one day of the week friday or saturday or sunday um making sure you do a few things that really bring you joy yeah some really basic ideas but so important to reiterate one that's been really good if you walk right from your office into the home um one tip i got was to go for a walk as if you were commuting home to build in time to decompress because the transition from one door to the next and then all of a sudden you're in the family is really jarring right you need to take the long way around yeah no that's great again i think i think for a certain number of people who aren't exactly that situation who have carved out some kind of workspace within their homes and to which they retire to get their work done every day um that's that's great advice because i do think that if they can then walk downstairs and walk out the front door you know and and go around the block and come back in uh they might find that that that that really has a beneficial effect i can imagine that i think one piece that probably all of us are dealing with is a sense of lack of uh lack of feeling like we're able to do enough whether it's you know the medical people in the front lines or therapists trying to tell health or parents and all of us it's like there's a sense that it's taken away some of people's feeling of agency and ability to help or make a difference and so i really have been trying to think about small things that make you feel like okay i'm i've contributed something yeah it's a great thing too i mean great thing to remind ourselves of what you just said because i started off the interview saying that i see you as operating on one of the front lines of this place it's not really of this time it's not really an acknowledged front line in the same way as um you know everybody is aware of the kind of sacrifices being made by large segments of our medical community and first responders of different sorts etc but there are an awful lot of people like just like yourself engaged in dealing directly with the effects of this new environment and new these new circumstances and it's important as i said to to understand not only that that's happening but the kinds of things that you have to deal with that that in that sense like you were just saying that hey you can't do enough um even as you're working your butt off i'm sure and falling into bed exhausted every night yeah yeah and anything else before we sign off anything that strikes you that oh boy we we we should have mentioned that or any other resources you'd like to share at this time obviously we mentioned we'll be we'll be posting resources we get from you um you know one thing that i thought would be really helpful that we haven't touched on is the importance of putting together a daily routine um for yourself and your family especially kids do so much better with routine and knowing when things are coming and what's coming and things that repeat um so if the family has any way of if you know a work schedule or a kid's schedule if there's any way to create some kind of calendar that everyone can see um so that people don't have to keep one of the things we have a lot of is you know a kid just comes in and wants something there's a lot of just no sense of where the boundary is and when you can be interrupted and not and that can i mean i'm finding that true for elder parents too they're lonely they have a question and um you know here in my house we've been kind of talking in either the night before usually we'll say what our days look like and when we have windows to be available and when not and for kids like what the schedule is so that even before so you as a parent aren't trying to come up with something off the cuff when you're stressed and you've got a call coming and it's it really has been helpful a lot of my a couple of my parents i've talked about okay well let's make like a activity list for the for the week like let's come up with five things you can plan to do um so you don't have to come up with them and then find yourself you know playing uno again for the 150th time um and uh so that can really calm people down even uh like we just started this week we're going for actually knowing when dinner's on the table you know instead of just whenever the person wanted to cook you know and and everyone was like wow this was really helpful like i knew when i needed to be here i could decide how much to snack you know and and you could just hear people organize them it was something they could count on right yeah the importance of structure you know which we've essentially lost in right and so recreating it somehow has been really is really helpful for kids because they've lost all their structure um and the predictability thing really helps our nervous system calm down so lots of um great uh advice and um good ideas for calming which is awesome wondering as a very last question any kind of light funny any things that anything that's that's happened kind of coming out of this or that you've noted or anything like that that would be more on the lighter side um if there isn't that's understandable but i figured you know what one of the things i noticed is a lot of people say oh my god i'm so glad i don't have to run from here to there to this soccer game and that practice or this they're like oh it's so nice just to hang out with my family you know in between biting each other's head off and yelling at each other they're like wow we just get a like wake up together you know one kid looks so happy to have both their parents home for the day you know it's like little simple things like oh i can help with dinner like a kid ended up cooking something with their parents and they had all afternoon so they made dinner together they would have never done that i'm getting a lot of really cute stories of like yeah we did this together was so much fun and i know that if this they weren't quarantined you know the kid would have said no i don't want to i want to play with my friends and right so like these little moments are coming up we're doing it in my house what do we do we're we've been baking bread and trying different kinds and improving it and everyone weighs in and we would never do that well yeah there's just right there are too many other things to do when you're out there and do them right so yeah seeing i guess uh one of one of the things i take from what you just said is just looking for recognizing and taking advantage of opportunities that are here that wouldn't other you know that are along with this and embracing and celebrating those because they will go away again that's right as soon as we can go back to playing with our friends etc that's most probably what we'll do whether we're kids or otherwise and it'll be so hard to find each other again you know like oh my god they're not responding etc stuff your kids in your like not worth the time of day when their friends are around good thank you so much um really really do appreciate it and i think that it's gonna it's going to uh be a real benefit to our audience good i hope so i hope people are find something useful in there and um also people just people have the most creative ideas it's amazing just to ask each other what would you come up with well we will do that and uh and uh we will wish you the best in your continued work i hope that you fall asleep a little less exhausted every day every night going forward from here well thanks so much for having me you bet we will talk to you again um i have been talking to and westcott uh clinical social worker and um source of excellent ideas and resources so we'll share all of those with you we appreciate you being here i'm james melanne this is talk of the town we'll see you later


The Adventures of Frank Race, starring Tom Collin. The war changed many things, the face of the earth and the people on it. Before the war, Frank Race worked as an attorney, but he traded his law books for the cloak and dagger of the OSS. And when it was over, his former life was over too. Adventure had become his business. The Adventures of Frank Race. Now we join Frank Race for the Istanbul Adventure. There are men who'll tell you they've seen the city die. And it's hard to find argument for their words. The population has dwindled a half between the wars, where trade has dried to a trickle, but somehow... with a wet night and gulping crooked streets and shadowy bazaars, I was feeling the old exhilaration and the expected sense of violence. There's always a Istanbul. Here, this doorway. I'll have to close. Very helpful. Is it red? Yes, thank you. White? What is it? I'm intrigued. A woman comes out of the night, a woman pursues the bullets. She turns out to be lovely. If you don't mind, I must go. If you don't mind, I'll go with you. No, please. Oh, now look, tomorrow I'm leaving Turkey, but tonight you need help. It's not for me. It's for a friend. A friend who is in trouble in America, like yourself. America? He's hurt, badly hurt. I think he's dying. Well, let's get him a doctor. That's why I'm trying to get out of this sector. I know a physician who will go to him. I'll get you out. Come on. Who's they? Here, let me get clear. Go behind me. Yeah. And I thought I knew my way around. This is worse than driving a hacking post. It's all right. His name's Donovan. He's Brooklyn Irish and does harmless. Hey, what goes on? Where are you, Frank? Right here. Where have you been? Oh, where have I been, he wants to know. I am out with a man just because he wants to go walking and he disappears. Where have I been? I happened to turn up a side street while you were gaping in some window. I'd imagine you'd follow. Eh, what do you say we start grinding back at a hotel, huh?  Hi. Who's this? You come to think of what we don't know each other's name, do we? I'm, uh, Frank Reyes. I'm Lisa Krueger. Well, what's her story, right? Well, I know all of it, Mark. But there's an American nearby who needs medical help. We're gonna get him a doctor. There are people around here who will make friends to stop us. They knew talk me out of bringing along my in range. From another section of the city, Liesl made a phone call. Within 15 minutes, we were joined by the physician. He was young and tall and dark, with a face you felt you could believe in. Liesl introduced him as Dr. Amaranth. Gentlemen, I want to thank you for helping Liesl. I believe we shall manage all right now. It might be harder getting back into that sector than it was getting out. We'd better stick with you. The rain had stopped, and with it had gone the freshness of the night. With no wind stirring, the streets smelled fetid, oppressive. There was no lift to the blackness, and you got the feeling of continually being about to walk into something. Then there was a gate beyond it, a small light coming from what looked like a stable. Mark and I were asked to wait, and the other two left us. You know, I wonder if we're gonna get a chance to cancel our reservations. What reservations? On the ball. Why should we want to cancel them? Rayce, I gotta look at that coil. You won't be taking off both tomorrow. Which, to me, is kind of sad. Here she comes. I told the American about you, Rayce. He wants to talk to you. He is too weak to say much, Mr. Rayce. If you will kneel down. What's his name, doctor? Dwyer. Johnny Dwyer. Hi, Johnny. Hi, you fella. Where are you from? I work out of New York. I was born in Indiana. Hey, sounds like home. I'm from Dayton, Ohio. Who hurt you, Johnny? Some bad ones, fella. Pulling a bad deal. Liesl and Doc will tell you they're great people. You'd better not speak any more.  Come out of it, will you? All right, it's better. Oh, what happened to me? Well, you won't need to bite your hair for a while. Not the way that slug creased your head. Where's Liesl and the doctor? I guess they got away. The doc got in a licked way. One of them visitors is as dead as a smoked heron. What about Johnny? Johnny Dwyer? He's dead, too, Frank. I don't know what these people are playing. But it ain't post office, Frank. It ain't post office. There's market prophesied. We missed our boat. Because I went looking for Liesl. I spent almost a week at it before giving up. After which I elapsed into an inertia of just lying around the hotel. Look, I never know you to get this low over a thing before. Why not think about other things, huh? Here, I brought up a telegram for you. Yeah, read it to me. All right. Hey, who is Anthony Woolwine? Tony Woolwine. He's an executive for intercontinental enteroners. Yeah, well, he wants to see you. Well, that means you get your wish about Fifth Avenue. Don't sound like New York to me. This is from France. Some place called Cairns. Cannes. It's on the Riviera, not far from Monte Carlo. Monte Carlo? Where all that high-powered gambling goes on? The same. Oh, no kidding. Well, look, if it's all right with your, uh... I just assumed post-pawn scene Fifth Avenue for a little while. Tony Woolwine. A nice guy who always seemed to be over there with sunshine. But Cannes had everything to go with the climate. Rambling villa, lots of ground around it, lots of swimming pool taking up the ground. He greeted me in bathing trunks in a tan that made everything about him seem brown but his grin. It may look like a holiday, Frank, but I'm not over here just for laughs. I've been wondering why you sent for me.  Oh, that's fair warning. Thanks. Do you mind if I make a personal observation? Go ahead. Got me under your spell. You don't seem to have your usual eye out for the ladies. And here I've been thinking that this crop I gathered was unusually bountious. So with your usual discernment, you've provided both quantity and quality. I've noticed. Particularly that bit of symmetry near the dining board. In the black suit? That's better. Now I'll stop fretting. Oh, there's somebody I want you to meet. Chuck. Yeah? Come on over here. It's a flyer I'd like to have you know. You like him. He's offered to help us out on this task I mentioned. Hi. Chuck, I want you to know Frank Race. Chuck Ferrell, Frank Race. Where? And I am Liesl Kruger. She stood there quietly and utterly composed. An exquisite figure in a black bathing suit. She had been the one who'd drawn my comment. The one by the dining board. She looked young. Younger than she had in Istanbul. And her loveliness in the stare of the sun was something to take the breath out of you. Where, oh, where did we find this? Well, why have you been hauling out on us? Look, beautiful, you were...  The blood all over your face? You got away all right? You and the doctor? Amaran's arm was broken by a bullet. We got away. We couldn't have done it had not you and your friend been there to confuse them. I, uh, I realize this must be some sort of a reunion. Is Race the man you were telling me of, Don? Yes, Race is the man. You mean there's a tie up here somewhere? Well, my side of it is purely insurance. The companies had to pay off claims on three large shipments of food, clothing, and medical supplies coming to Europe from the United States. We, uh, don't want to have to refuse insurance on future shipments, but naturally, we can't keep that up. So we've got to solve the problem. I take it these shipments weren't lost at sea. Lisa, now it's your turn. Well, it's the same thing that has been choking Europe to death for so long, Race. Black market. The last year, it seems to have come under the control of one organization, all over the continent. Is this what you've been finding, you and Dr. Ameron? Yes. To Americans, the black market might seem vicious, but I'm sure it seems impersonal, a blight that doesn't really touch. But with us, well, I had a brother. All I had left of my family. And a year ago, he became ill of pneumonia. I was assured that if he received penicillin, he would live. It's usually effective. I got him the penicillin, Race. It took price very hard for me to pay. I got him the penicillin. But he died at the age of 19. I'm sorry, Lisa. He died because the drug was worthless. What happened to those shipments that were lost? Destroyed. Cargo, train and crew. Nothing left each time but smoldering ashes. I don't get it. What happened to them? The black market would have stolen those shipments, but they knew it would be too difficult. So they destroyed them. Nobody knows how because the train crews are always killed. And then the black marketeers get their high prices with shoddy clothes and bad food and synthetic medicine. Sounds like a rough bunch. Race knows how rough they can be. He saw some of their work in Istanbul. There will be two more trains going through this month. One on the 19th, the other on the 27th. They must not be destroyed, Race. Listen to me. There is an epidemic of deuteria breaking out through the western portion of France. Unless those trains get through with deuteria toxides, thousands of children are going to die. We'll return to the adventures of Frank Race in about one minute. Let's go back to the adventures of Frank Race.  But for me, Liesl Kruger made it even more glamorous. Glamour. It was a quality she would carry with her wherever she went. Hightening it with her beauty and her willingness to involve herself in lethal danger for a cause without profit. There's no other spot like this, Race. For me, that is. You've probably seen other places just as lovely. Just as unique. As lovely? Yes. It's unique. Not quite. Liesl. Yes, Race? How do I get my teeth into this fight of yours? Where do I start? Harmon. Harmon can tell you more about it even than I. Where is he? In Toulon. He would be happy to see you. You, um... You seem very close. You and the doctor. Well, when two persons share the dangers we have shared, they will naturally be abound. But... I'm not in love with him. That is what you mean, Race. What do you do with Liesl? Why do I fight? That was my brother. And I suppose there's something else. Something it would be hard to put into words. You should know. You have the same feeling. I get paid for what I do. Oh. Do you always get paid? Who paid you for helping us in Istanbul? Get out of it, Liesl. Let Amaran fight them. Let me fight them. But you get out of it. Why do you say that? We stood facing one another. And over my shoulder the moonlight spotlighted the terrific face of hers. With its provocative lips and frame of thick lustreous hair. I didn't grab him. I reached for it gently. And everything took time out for a while. So did I. And I'm asking you again to pull out of this business. Race, I can't. I've got to stay with it to the end. No matter what the end may be. You awake yet, Frank? Yeah, come in. You're being invaded. What's up? We thought you might like to look the country over from the air. How long will it take you to dress? A quarter of an hour. Where's the plane? It's been 20 minutes from here. What have you got?  A P-47. Some ship, Frank. Chuck thought he was getting a bargain when he bought that ice wagon. Lots of power and he bought it for dimes. The payoff is that operating it will keep him in hawk for the rest of his life. P-47 adds up to a lot of planes. I wouldn't have anything else. She pays her way. Say, what's wrong with your hand, Chuck? Why don't you do that? I nicked it as I was gassing up the other day. It's a little swollen. You'd better do something about it, Chuck. Ah, tomorrow. Today I want to fly. Chuck, since this is just a tour of duty with no destination, would you like to drop me in too long for a couple of hours? Too long? My sure. I'll be calling on a doctor there. We'll get him to take a look at that hand of yours. Abraham stared at me when he saw me. His left hand hung in a sling.  Place? But we thought they... You thought I'd been killed, Liesl told me. Liesl, you've seen her. Oh, why do we stand here? Come in. She told me where to find him. I'm in this with you now, all the way. And there's an American insurance company behind me. Oh, thank heaven. You cannot know how much we need help. Tell me about Johnny Dwyer. Where did he fit in? What happened to him? Well, he was, first of all, an idealist, so many of your Americans are. And he knew how to fight, so they murdered him. What was he doing in Istanbul? So the black marketeers chased him from here. From too long? Is that why you're here? Yes. Johnny Dwyer stayed at a quayside hotel there, a rat trap called the Chabonier. Why he went there, Liesl, and I never learned. Too many things happened too rapidly, but it was from the Chabonier that they hunted him. First to Marseille, then to Rome, then to Istanbul. It was from Rome that we got his call for help and word to meet him in Turkey. You know what happened there. The Hotel Chabonier. Imagine they know you there. I wish I could say I knew them as well. You have no idea of an identity behind it? Nothing. Worth a sue. We've dealt with one or two, but they were no more than underlings. We learned nothing. I'm going to take lodgings at the hotel Chabonier with a friend who was with me in Istanbul. There must be a safer way. But none quicker than I can see. And now I wonder if I may ask a favor of him. Anything. The pilot who flew me over here has a bad hand. Infection. I wish you'd look at it. He's here with you? He remained on his plane, but I've got a cab outside. Then let us go to him. We found Chuck Ferrell leaning against the fuselage of his P-47. In his hand, a silver flask with which he waved at us as we came up. Amaranth smiling as I introduced him, tightened his lips seriously when he saw the hand. He made a clinic of the 47's cockpit, taking Chuck's temperature and otherwise thoroughly checking his patient's condition.  Oh, I guess I've been doing all right. Why? Come on, Doc. Brief me on this. When did you have, uh, an inoculation for tetanus last? Hmm. Never had one that I know of. You were not in your army? No. Do I have tetanus coming on? It's possible. Bad, huh? Hmm. Since you have received no toxoids, then I can bolster an inoculation with antitoxin. It's indicated. Well, then let's have it. Will it, uh, will it make me sick? It may. It may not. Depending on your sensitivity to it, you should not fly this plane. Oh, uh, ever been checked out in a P-47 race? Yeah. Good. Then you can ferry us back. Well, possibly Dr. Amaranth will come over and check your condition in a day or so. Of course. And, uh, when will you keep the rendezvous we discussed? As soon as I can pry Mark Donovan loose from those Monte Carlo gaming tables. There are parks and promenades in Toulon, all handsome. There's the view of the sea. There's the cathedral and mother-old churches and a fine town hall. Not far from its docks and a crooked street forgotten by all but the police and a few citizens who would prefer that the police also forgot it, stands the Hotel Charbonnier. There's Duby as a hostel as you'll find anywhere along the Mediterranean. I will say to yourself, if I didn't know I was leaving Monte Carlo for this, honest race I think I'd have run out on you. Now it's here up, Mark. You'll find after a while the place grows on you. Something's been growing on me. And it ain't my disposition. If I could only get me a cup of coffee. Why don't you look around? I've been looking around. There's wine, wine, wine everywhere. You can wade in this stuff, but not one drop of coffee. I gotta find some somewhere. Hey. What's wrong with you? Hey. I'm not under the door. Let me have it. What's your problem? Dr. Rameron. He wants me to go to him at once. Something urgent. You wait here. Come here, come inside, race. What is it? Trouble? Worse than that. Tragedy. Look over there. Liesl. She's been hurt. What is it, Rameron? What happened to her? She's... She's dying, race. She got here about an hour ago. She's been trying to tell me what happened, but she's had only strength enough to... to say your name. You forgot to save her. I've done everything I can, race. Talk to her. She will hear you. She wants to hear you. I had a lot of things to say to her, but if she ever heard any of them, there was no sign. After a while, I gave it up and went back to the hotel chauvinier. They're in the musty hallway. What? No. It's you, Mark. Come here, will you? I've got to have a look in here. I heard this morning that this place used to be a cafe, so I started poking around in the basement. They and I might accidentally run across some coffees. You've got to have more of these crates first. And then this door. Can you squeeze through? Yeah. What have you got? I've got to look at what I've got. A arsenal. Rifles, pistols, submachine guns. Even shells. Look at this one, wouldn't you? Shell? That's no shell, Mark. That's a rocket, uh... What's your matter?  Chuck Ferrell in his P-47. What are you talking about? P-47's thunderbolts, along with the British typhoons that were the top rocket-firing planes of the war. Rockets for knocking out tanks and trains. Trains, Mark, do you hear that? Sightly, I hear it, but... Chuck Ferrell, he destroyed the supplied trains. Then I've been eating with him, drinking with him, flying with him. Please, give me a second. What is it? It's an hour. It's an hour. What are we doing? Yeah, then, load this pistol. You're going up through that window up there. When you get clear, if I have two shots, you understand? Then head for Woolwine. Tell him about this whole set up. Now, wait a minute. It can boost me up to that window. But what about you? How are you going to get out of there?  Okay, I must. Get clear to the street before you signal. Yeah, but what are you going to do? Hold him off of this Tommy gun. Get going. Okay, of course. What can I do for you? It's Chuck Ferrell. Nice to have you aboard. That machine gun will do you any good, Grace. I've got a dozen boys here. We'll smoke you out if we have to. Ferrell, listen. All right, I'm listening. You heard that shot? Yeah, I heard it. So what? That's a friend of mine signaling that he's clear of here. He's going to Woolwine to tell him how you've been using that P-47 to destroy those trains with rockets. Make sure your people stay out. Knowing about the rockets, why should I sweat out a lost cause? Always play the cool hand. Is that the philosophy, Ferrell? Why not? We'll work out other deals. I've made plenty of money and I still got it. What can you do? Extradite me? Nets. Of course, you might turn that chatterbox on me. But you're not the type for that. Are you, Grace? I don't have to be, Chuck.  What do you mean? You look sort of feverish. What? Sure I'm feverish. I've got tetanus. But what I've been treated for, you took care of that. I know. I saw your doctor about an hour ago. He was trying to save the life of a lovely girl you murdered. I... I didn't do that, Grace. You were part of it. The same way you've been part of murdering a lot of other people, including kids. But you finished, Chuck. Amaran said you weren't in shape for a bottle of tetanus. Stop trying to annoy me. I... I took that hand of toxin, didn't I? Dr. Amaran learned this morning that the antitoxin he gave you was worthless. Worthless?  And there's none available that'll be effective. Not until a new supply arrives from America in 15 days. And in 15 days, Chuck, I have a feeling you won't be around. The Adventures of Frank Race, starring Tom Collins, came to you from Hollywood. The series is written and directed by Buckley Angel and Joel Murcott. The music is composed and played by Ivan Dittmarz. Be sure to be with us again this time, one week from today, for another dramatic chapter in The Adventures of Frank Race. Art Gilmore speaking. This is a Bruce L's production.