Okay. Hello everyone. My name is Marcos Cedro. Again, I'm a software engineer at HPE and also an inspired contributor since a couple of years. And today I'd like to share with you some work that we have been doing with some folks at HPE, Adriana Cardoso and Dorian Lambeck around using DevIDs and TPMs for Spire Note Attestation. We base our work in two important industry standards. The first one is the I2P standard for local and metropolitan area networks to secure device identity. This document, which was published a couple of years ago, defined the concept of DevID. Probably some of you are already familiar with this concept, but in case you are not, a DevID is essentially a cryptographic identity in the form of an expect online certificate with certain properties and protocols that make it suitable for device identification. The standard defines two kinds of DevIDs. A DevID can be an IDevID, which is the initial device identity that is created by the manufacturer at manufacturing time. And then we have the LDevID, which is the local identifier that is created by the administrator. And the other important document is the TCG TPM 2.0 keys for device identity and attestation. This document was released only a couple of months ago by the TCG, the Trusted Computing Group. This group is the same that defined the TPM specification. And this opportunity they are releasing this document when they are bringing us some recommendations for using DevIDs with TPMs. So essentially these recommendations are around how the TPM must be provisioned, like which kind of keys should be used, in which here it is in the TPM, these LDevIDs and IDevIDs must be placed. Another security and privacy considerations. So based on all this information and some previous work done by the community, we came up with this proposal. This is a diagram of the proposal of attestor. It is very similar to the X509 rule of possession attestor. But the main difference is that the signing operation instead of being done in the agent itself, it is done in the TPM, which is isolated. So the attestation workflow is the following. In the first step, the agent loads the DevID credentials, the certificate plus the scripted by the key. The encrypted key is loaded into the TPM. So now this TPM is ready to perform signing operations. And the DevID certificate is sent to the server side of the attestor. Validate this certificate using a configured CI bundle. If the validation succeeds, the server issues a challenge to the agent. This is an M1 that needs to be signed. So the agent asks the TPM to sign this payload, the TPM signs it and sends it back to the agent. And the agent sends the payload signed to the server, which finally verifies the signature using the DevID. And if it is successful, the attestation is confirmed. So this is in a few words how this attestor works. There's a lot more going on. If you are interested in this work here, you can see that the public did have issues where all this is being actively discussed. So we are happy to hear any comments or feedback about it. And now I will hand it to Adyani, who's going to run a live demo. I think it's now. Sorry, let me share here. Okay. Hello, everyone. So, okay, so as Marcus presented, our plugin is similar to the X509 pop and attestor, but leverage the DevID based on the TCG draft just published where the private keys protected by the TPM. So here I'm connected to a physical server with a TPM 2.0 and we already have a DevID provision here. We'll see the example later. So let's take a look on the plugin configuration here. So here in the server side, we have our node attestor plugin. We are calling it TPM 2.0 and we just need to configure the CA bundle path. This is the CA that signed the DevID certificate. Now, let's check the agent side. So here is our plugin. And we must configure where the DevID certificate private and public keys are. So as Marcus mentioned, the private blob is encrypted. So and the key can only be used once it's loaded in the same TPM in which it was created. So after node attestation, when the agent proves the possession of the private key that is rooted in the CA bundle, we extract information from the DevID certificate to create the node selectors. So let's now see an example of a DevID certificate. So this certificate we are creating using an internal provisioning tool that we have been working on that is following the spec, the TCG spec. And here we can see that we have in the subject information about the device like the platform serial number. We also have information in the in the extensions. We recommend the use of digital signature only for the key usage. This is also defined some OIDs that must be present like this one. That means that the issuer has validated the DevID residency. So in the during the provisioning team means the issuer has checked that all the keys reside on the same TPM of a well known vendor. The TCG draft is under review. So this OID has moved to the certificate policy field. So we need to update our provisioning tool later. TCG also specifies that the subject alternative name may contain information about the to identify the TPM. So as the TCG OIDs, these data structures in use here are not recognized by the OpenSSL tool yet, but it's not an error. It's just the visualization. Okay, so this is the example of the DevID that we are using. Now let's see it's working. So here on the top, I will start the spy server. And let's just check there is no attested agent. Okay. And now let's run here on the top on the bottom, the spy agent to check the node attestation. So here you can see the node attestation successful. Let's see now the selectors that we are creating. So here you can see that now we have one attested agent that used our plugin. And as similar to the X509 pop node attest, we are using the fingerprint for the SPFID and also as one selector. We extract the information from the certificate. So you can see here the certificate serial number. Each field value in the subject field and also in the issue field. So for each OID you have one selector. And if there is a well-known name also have this as a selector. So to help when creating the registration entries, we can think about extracting more information from the certificate like those information in the subject alternative name. For example, the IP address. And one discussion that has been ongoing in the community is to also add the PCR values as selectors. So this will require more change, but this is under discussion. So this completes our demo. This work is in progress. So we appreciate your feedback on this proposal. We are in the process to open source the plugin and the provisioning tool to help on the discussions. So thank you. Let's see if we have questions. Thank you. I think we did see a couple of questions. So Adrian, if you can answer, can you link the OID in the client certificate? This one. Let's go back. Show that ID. So here we have for each in the subject for each value we have one selector. So the code is genetic, right? So we just parse the values and create one select for each value here. I think Zach has a bunch of questions. I don't know Zach, if I unmute yourself. I don't see anything anyone else asking questions. There was an extension that open SSL doesn't understand. Yes. More about the what object identifier that is. That's defined by the TCGO ID, but open SSL does not recognize that. So for this one, and it was moved for to another field, the certificate policy. So I don't know if that's only adding in the dictionary in the open SSL to be able to read and present the well known name, right? But so far the open SSL does not recognize that. I guess I misunderstood. I was looking at the binary subject alt name too. Oh, here is the data structures. So what determines that data structure? The TCG draft spec defines what structures that must be used to represent the TPM information to identify the TPM. So this is, I didn't enter into details because there are so many difference. And let's say for the ID that is a must field for the local dev ID, there is a should field, let's say information. And since we don't have any platform with ID is available yet. This tool that we are working on following the spec is creating ID and we are using as a local dev ID in our plugin just for testing. Right. So, but these are these the data structures in the TCG spec that defines which structures must be used here. Okay, it's harder model. There is a name, the hardware model and the hardware type. These are these are fields is just open SSL isn't translating. Yes, yes, that's that's not on their horses just because we can it can pass it presented the well known name let's say just a miracle. It looks like somebody linked to the TCG. Okay, thank you. You're welcome. And the set my set my follow up or sort of unrelated question is like, from my understanding most manufacturers just kind of give you the CA, and you don't necessarily have like the manufacturer certificate. So how do you like tie this trust to like the manufacturer like, how do you build your, your database of serial numbers to bootstrap this trust. The idea is that we wish we must use the idea of this from the manufacturer. So, we don't have that yet, but soon manufacturers will be start shipping with this idea of ID. And then we must have the CA to verify that. And then we should have the local provision to create the all dev IDs based on the initial attestation keys that will be provided by the manufacturer. And the value of this is it's the hood of trust that comes from the manufacturers. Yeah. So just for testing that we are using like this way creating not in the manufacturer right because you don't have that yet available. Got it. Thank you. Great. Thank you. I just want to say kudos you're relatively new to the projects but you've you've entered with the bang, and you've ramped up in a relatively short time and are driving something that is quite a meaningful contribution alongside others in the team. So kudos to you and welcome to the community. Thank you. Great demo. Thanks.


The BU Graduate Worker Union continues to strike since they began last week at Marsh Plaza. Faculty and staff at College of Communication share their input on the ongoing matter. Professor Janbeck oversees most of COM's CO courses. So of all the things I'm overseeing, we do have a small percentage of graduates workers who are striking fully or doing a partial strike. One class affected by the strike is COM CO 101, where Professor Janbeck co-teaches. We have what's called a continuity plan that basically outlines what we will do if there is a large number of TAs or tutors who are on strike, which is not the situation we are in right now. Although things seem tentative in the curriculum, staff members stay positive. COM's Dean of Graduate Affairs shares her hopes for what's to come. I'm hoping that we will find a way together to make it work well for everybody involved. We all came to learn in community, and I hope we can all continue to do that in a way that feels good for everybody. The administration at BU's College of Communication shares their support for all of their students while finding new stability for their classes. For BU TV 10, I'm Keeley Yee.


id not turn up um any conclusive data one way or the other we have with us tonight um Karen Lado from community development as our um resident expert who can provide a little more um if nothing else anecdotal um context for what she's seen so i'll see if Karen wouldn't mind uh talking for a moment there we go welcome is Lado thank you very much mayor shul um Karen Lado assistant director community development um and i really wanted to speak and um as director young said really anecdotally to the issue of um the impact of um increasing the family size which i believe is one of the concerns that council member freeman had articulated unfortunately i do not also i do not have good data i did some research to try to see if i could come across data on the impact of um co-living and family size on um housing prices and i was not able to to come across anything what i can say is that in some ways this is an example of undoing things that we have done um there used to not be a requirement on family size and we used to have things like rooming houses and boarding houses that now in their in their modern um um incarnation are now called co-living arrangements or shared housing arrangements and this is a a missing part in our housing stock um certainly that we feel very much in the affordable arena um we have a great um interest in the community development department in supporting um some of these shared housing arrangements to serve very low income people including formerly homeless people folks living on um disability income um and we've been very limited in our ability to do that because we um currently with the family size at three projects just don't work um they simply can't gain enough rent um for it to be viable even as an affordable housing product for it to to um to function or especially as an affordable housing product for it to function and so if we see it from the affordable housing protective that it would be valuable to have the ability to do a larger number of people in a home as a way of providing of really replicating what used to exist and then was kind of zoned out of existence um I would also just make a point that um one person households constitute a very large portion of the Durham population it's about a third of all households in Durham are one person households um I cannot say it because the census don't cut the data um this way what the proportion of low income people is who are one person households I can say that when you look at the very um low end of folks who are struggling with homelessness that over 70 percent of our homeless households are one person households um so it or non-family households in general so um there is a need for a shared housing product um there is a concern in certain neighborhoods where there will be demand that this will drive up prices because you could potentially make more money renting by bedroom than you could renting the entire home and that's that that's very much of an economic possibility I think um as Mr. Harmon noted on or Mr. Anthony that's probably already happening in in a number of neighborhoods as well it's just um kind of masked under only three people on the lease so it's a challenging issue to decide but I would I would just know from an affordable housing perspective this is something that we see as potentially a valuable tool thank you Mayor Schultz. Thank thank you um Karen Lotto I I appreciate that because it highlights I guess what so what is concerning and you do give very good context I would like to note that without having any type of tenant rights or tenant associations I'm not sure how this will impact folks on the lower end of the spectrum I understand that based on the comment that uh that I think it was Mr. Anthony May that the increased occupancy will create um could create for for landlords that were interested an opportunity to lower the cost is there anything in there that you think could drive in that direction I guess is what I'm so so yes because you know what what will happen is that um what can happen is that even though the overall cost of the building is higher in some cases the cost to an individual household is lower because you're now having more households in that building um you know the price is is it going to be possible you know for everybody to live in highly desirable areas no those are those are places where the per-unit cost the co-living arrange especially if we get the luxury buildings you know the luxury those are not going to be affordable but those neighborhoods in their entirety are probably not affordable now and they're certainly not trending affordable so the question really becomes in other neighborhoods does this become a vehicle or does this legitimize what is already happening because these arrangements already exist in a lot of neighborhoods and in some ways allow tenants then at least the rights that currently exist under law because they are now legal they're not they're not you know they're not at risk just by even reporting a violation um but it's a I mean councilmember Freeman it is attention and I and as I said I don't have data to say is the the benefit that outweigh the benefit of being able to house more people and lower the individual's cost even if it raises the overall revenue that the owner of the property makes the individual costs or does that outweigh the the pressure on prices I don't think we have data on that I what I can say is that there is a growing focus on shared housing arrangements as a way of meeting the needs of very low-income households particularly of one person households because we simply cannot afford to build the number of units that are going to be needed to you know if we think about them as studio one benefits this is never going to happen um so this is a way of providing decent quality housing at a price point that we otherwise can't reach thank you I appreciate that thanks thank you councilmember and thank you miss lotto thanks sir miss lotto you didn't um you didn't give us an opinion on the five versus six question um do you have an opinion on the five versus six question looks staff is is recommending uh you know supporting this do you have any thoughts you want to offer um I obviously simply from a very narrow vantage point of affordable housing um when there is sufficient space in the building to put six people it will be economically more sustainable um when you're trying to to house very low-income people to be able to do six rather than five thank you all right um other questions for staff or the applicant by members of the council okay I have a few um I want to start by thanking the planning commission committee that worked with the staff and the applicant to come up with a mutually agreeable solution to most of these issues we do have the two outstanding issues here but I do want to just appreciate that you all were really able to come together on most of the issues there before us and I thank you for that because I know that this started out as quite a there's a lot in here um this covers a big piece of ground um I also want to appreciate the applicant for withdrawing the proposals for reducing freak tree coverage in open space I understand that this proposal and on the proposals here are all motivated by the applicants has mentioned further reduce the cost of uh of housing endure I mean to try to create a truly low-cost product which is laudable and important uh but as Mr. Anthony knows when we first began talking I made clear from the get-go that I believe that open spaces and trees are critical to the quality of life we want for all of our residents and we can't compromise on that so I appreciate the fact that those are no longer in this proposal and I think what we have before us is absolutely excellent and we are down to these two remaining issues uh the two areas where the applicant and the planning commission majority differ as as we've been discussing one the elimination of parking requirement uh and the two is the applicant's proposal but the number I'll be allowed to live in one house from three to six while the committee prefers the Mr. Ross from three to five so let me ask if the staff um staff on page four of the memo states his preference for the applicant's position about parking parking requirement can we hear a little bit more uh from the staff on that sorry trying to unmute um always seems to be a problem um yeah it's been well documented and and council has over the years removed the impediment of mandatory minimum parking requirements for affordable housing units it started with the compact neighborhood tier and then it slowly expanded to the urban tier and then the request um uh that Mr. Anthony brought forward for just including it also in the suburban tier seemed reasonable um because it's really focusing on those affordable housing units uh as defined in the UDA we're not we're not talking about uh somebody just claiming up it's an affordable unit I don't have to provide any parking um parking is a cost factor in development um and Karen can can correct me if I'm wrong but I know that um they struggle with with state funded projects of getting parking requirements reduced even for those two uh to remove to reduce the costs uh for parking um they take a lot of money and they take up a lot of space that could otherwise go for units um so uh the the concerns that were raised not quite sure understanding the concerns that were raised by the planning commission for not um allowing it to just extend into suburban tier um we did we did suggest that if if you wanted some sort of compromise that that um the projects that were located within a quarter or a half mile of mass transit stops would be a reasonable compromise if there was some concern of a of a subsidized affordable housing unit that was placed somewhere away from mass transit I can't think of that ever happening there hasn't been one that I'm aware of um that we don't get that many anyway and they're usually located more in the urban or downtown uh locations um but that's that's generally our stance thank you Mr. Stock I see Mr. Miller has his hand up Mr. Miller would you like to comment on this um item on this on this aspect of this item certainly thank you Mr. Mayor I can tell you our concern was is not whether or not projects that include affordable housing have reduced parking no one objected to that it was as written the proposal would allow a developer to reduce the parking uh uh or eliminate the parking requirement for the affordable units while providing parking for the market units that's what we objected to and now if there was a way to rewrite this provision to say that an overall reduction was allowed but that you couldn't uh uh you couldn't discriminate against the affordable units by eliminating their parking or treating their parking rights differently than the than the market units uh if you could if you could fix it that way I believe everybody on the committee and the planning commission would have supported it and I'm aware of projects that do include uh more affordable units even if they don't meet the definition necessarily of affordability in Durham uh in the urban tier where in fact the one of the economies achieved for affordability for those units is that they have no parking while market rate units in the same project uh do have parking and uh well that might be practical in the urban tier where there is usually pretty ready access to public transit and the suburban tier we were afraid that you would wind up with people who would be essentially have no park could have no parking uh and would either wind up parking their car somewhere away or uh essentially be in constant conflict with management of the project over parking where they uh wouldn't park uh and this thing does happen uh I experienced it in my professional career as an advocate for uh housing consumers with the Attorney General's office. Thank you Mr. Miller. As I understand this conversation uh Mr. Miller and Mr. Anthony are actually in substantial agreement on this it seems like more of a wording issue than it does as I understood you Mr. Anthony you said that uh you I endorse what Tom just said that that you were you were in favor of of of having uh that that the that the parking spaces would be available to everyone whether or not they were in the affordable units or in the market rate units and as I understood Mr. Miller he is also in favor of that. We are good to go. We're not good to go because I think there's some concern about the wording. Yes and if I may Mr. Mayor that's exactly right and because this the work of this committee was COVID caught we ran out of time to do word smithing um and if there were a way to add that language either now or at some point in the future I know that the heartburn associated with this would completely go away. Thank you well this has been helpful um I'm going to uh Ms. Lotto. Yes sir I it's a temporary measure I did want to um note that um this applies to units that meet the affordable housing definition in the UDO. Typically that is going to be units that are um proposing to use the affordable housing density bonus. Those units in order to use the affordable housing density bonus um will have to execute a contract with the community development department and we will not allow for parking discrimination or any other access um any other discrimination access to amenities um in any projects that are using the bonus. I recognize that doesn't cover the universe of of cases but it does cover the ones that are coming through right now. Thank you that's very helpful. All right colleagues I'm going to let us all cogitate on that one for a little bit. I think we have a lot of unity if we can get the language right so why don't we move now to uh if there are any questions uh on the especially uh on the well any other questions at all especially on the five versus six people uh or any other concerns that colleagues want to raise I'm not trying to limit your questions. Any other questions at this point um all right I think we've had a lot of good discussion uh Ms Young could you uh pop up on the screen here thank you uh I think that uh the council needs to make a decision on the five versus six I think we've heard on that I mean I understand that a proposal has been floated that we allow only five and a half people but that doesn't seem to be that wise the um but we do have here sorry Mayor Pro Tem she gave me she gave me the the chop uh you know the later it gets the worst my joke gets that's I was chopping an imaginary person in half so that we could max out the the number yeah thank you yeah that's a bad idea. Mr Mayor the lightness of the hour does not thank for your sense of humor that's not thank you yeah I know sorry um Ms Young uh I think you heard uh Mr Anthony and Mr Miller uh I have substantial agreement if we can get the wording right do you have any suggestions in terms of the uh wording for the parking yeah yeah um I think we can clarify that um and this is actually our practice and probably something that we should clarify across the board which is that parking in terms of UDL calculations is not assigned so anytime that we allow folks through the existing measures to reduce their parking by not having to provide parking for affordable units we already do not assign it so we can clarify that um generically but I can tell you that it's my interpretation as the planning director that that is how it functionally works okay so if you're comfortable with that moving forward um I would suggest that we proceed and then in a future omnibus for uh for clarity's sake we can we can make that clear but the long-standing interpretation of the application of that all right that's helpful and I bet you Mr Miller will hold you to that should we pass this tonight um would that come back during mic stock yes okay great um colleagues any more questions or comments for staff just one I just want to know if a review of I guess those units that were mentioned earlier would also come before mic stock or come in with mic stock all right but there was there was a note uh I made a note that uh apparently there were some that weren't I guess that that are not currently fitting in and if that was known I wanted to know if this was something we were tracking could I get clarity on that one I'm still missing absolutely explain a little bit more council member sorry are we tracking family units and any planning or zoning or development or any other department so where would that even be so I will say that it's one of the most challenging aspects of applying a rule like this um which causes us um a lot of difficulty from a zoning enforcement standpoint um and um I will say that um professionally I do not think we need to be in the business of tracking family units as a planning department and with that said I think we're leaning more towards I'm leaning more towards the six I want to be clear thank you council member um okay uh colleagues thank you if there are no more questions um we will I will declare this public hearing closed um I'm going to make sure that I'm sorry council member Middleton I did it again I'm sorry no it's okay it's okay thank you um I actually just wanted to I also lean more towards six as well I wanted to just give a word of commendation I was I was pretty excited when this was first presented to me um strengthening this notion of kind of codifying the dormitory uh approach and communal living of black and latino folk were doing this for years we've been having an extended family on the one roof for generations this is how we got over um shout out to Asian families to do it as well so so I think this is a wonderful way that many of our people have survived through the years unofficially it's good to see it coming into the light and being codified so um certainly whatever wordsmithing we need to do um will do but but I I am excited about this this proposition action this initiative and I'm leaning more towards six as well um that's how we grew up thank you thank you council member let me see if I can try to define where we are with some help from Ms. Young Ms. Young the proposal we have before us includes the uh the parking language that we've discussed and it includes the six uh people as the limit that's if we vote for this we're voting for the six person limit is that correct going to jump in go ahead Mike I think I'm sorry I'm sorry that's okay that's okay that's okay options right so uh option c1 which is the applicants version would cover everything that the planning commission recommended plus it includes the parking eliminating the minimum parking requirement and includes six that's c1 I'm sorry I didn't I didn't realize that now look at the motion I understand it thank you thank you and c2 uh includes doesn't include the parking requirements and includes five is that correct that is correct all right okay thank you um colleagues any more comments uh before we uh the councilman Freeman just really quickly I just wanted to hear from um Karen Lotto if there was any thoughts she had about maybe setting up uh resource I guess like around making sure that folks weren't I know that the housing discrimination um I think I think office sits in nis yes or fair housing and I just wanted to make sure that there was resources that could line up or if there aren't any resources if we need to line up resources to make sure that if there is um someone who's been pushed out of the unit because they're not at or will have you like some way to make sure that we're there's a there's going to be a gap in there of when we were or when we have six and when we don't have six and just making sure that there's some overlay in uh preventing anyone from losing their house and that's all um so thank you Karen Lotto community development um there are limits to what we can do if you know if rents rise and an individual can't afford to pay the rent unless they're able to get some kind of rental assistance from voucher then um there's not a mechanism legally that we can prevent that person from having to move out what um what we can do and what we would do is to channel resources into creating um using this mechanism to create affordable housing opportunities the income restricted affordable shared housing opportunities and I believe and but would need to confirm that um most rental assistance programs um allow you to use a voucher in this situation I um I know that Mr Scott from the Durham the Durham Housing Authority is is on a later item and he might be able to clarify that with regards to housing choice vouchers um so that would be another way that people this would create because one of the challenges we have right now for example in housing folks through our rapid rehousing programs is finding affordable units to put them into this would potentially expand because even though the overall you know all six bedrooms are all five bedrooms collectively might cost way too much one bedroom would be affordable or could be affordable and it would give us a kind of more places to put our one person households and ideally higher quality units if they're if they're you know well developed and well maintained but I can't guarantee that those are going to be adequate to address all of the concerns that you have because this is a market economy and and owners of property can make decisions about what they do with their property thank you I appreciate that and steering me in that direction will probably be better than trying to put a restriction in place thank you thank you councilmember all right colleagues any more questions or comments I'll just councilmember cabillera yeah are we just are we just going to put up the one are you just going to ask for a motion for c1 and leave c2 alone I'm just asking for clear because that's the one I want yeah that's what I'm going to ask for first because I sort of sense that's where we're going but I first want to just make sure I have one comment and anybody else have any comments just that I'm excited I'm glad that we're moving towards the six and I'm full support thank you you know what I would say just in general is appreciating Mr. Anthony bringing this forward appreciate the planning commission all the work that you all did to improve it and I the thing that I you know that we that I really have appreciated from community development from Mr. Johnson Miss Lotto and others over the last few years saying to us again and again we're not going to help we're not going to solve the affordable housing crisis by building subsidized housing by itself we got to do a lot of that but we have to work on these market market driven structures as well and this is another step in that direction as Mr. Harmon said and I agree all right and with that the first motion would be to adopt the appropriate consistency statement is there a motion I'll move second second moved by councilmember Freeman seconded by councilmember Freelon madam clerk will you please call the roll mayor shul hi mayor proton johnson hi councilmember caballero hi councilmember freelon hi councilmember freeman hi councilmember middleton i've all died councilmember reese hi thank you thank you very much madam clerk the eyes have it in the motion passes seven to zero i will now for the second motion if we adopt ordinance c1 amending the udo we would include the parking language that mr. anthony has proposed as well as the the six person limit let me just add that this is with the understanding that we would did the planning partner would come back to us during mic stock with the with the appropriate language to clarify that all parking any development market rate or or affordable is shared so can i have a motion to adopt ordinance c1 so moved second moved by mayor and mayor pro tem seconded by councilmember reese madam clerk will you please call the roll mayor shul hi mayor proton johnson hi councilmember caballero councilmember caballero hi councilmember freelon hi councilmember freeman hi councilmember middleton i've all died councilmember reese hi thank you thank you madam clerk the eyes have it in the motion passes unanimously um thank you very much colleagues thank you for uh mr anthony thank you mr miller mr harman thank you all for being here tonight on what i think is a very important and complicated issue and i want to express my and the council's appreciation for all you've done and thank you for the planning staff in this lot as well all right uh we'll now move to item 24 approval of the multifamily housing facility known as ugly square apartments and first we'll hear from staff and i see mr johnson is with us greetings mayor mayor pro tem members of council reginal johnson director of department of community development this item is a public hearing that we're asking for the approval of multifamily housing revenue bonds for the durham housing authority for ugly square this is not an item that will have any financial implication to the city but the rs code requires that the municipality approve the uh uh durham housing authority to issue these revenue bonds and so what we're presenting before the council is the resolution to uh providing the for the approval of the the bonds for the ugly square and the financing uh of the revenue bonds and mr anthony scott uh ceo of the durham housing authority and ray parks the consultant uh both on the call thank you very much mr johnson uh colleagues you have heard the report from staff and i'm now going to declare this public hearing open and i'm going to ask if there are any questions uh for staff by members of the council council member freeman thank you just quickly the bond council is not in place or the is it a i'm not sure how to call the affordable housing committee is not in place yet did they is this a bond that they would would have reviewed no ma'am this is not this does not would not come before the housing uh affordable housing implementation committee okay thank you thank you council member um mr uh any any other questions for mr johnson i don't see anyone here to speak on this item so i'm going to declare this public hearing closed and the matter is before the council uh we are being asked to adopt the resolution providing approval of the multifamily housing facility known as ugly square apartments and uh we'll start with that we'll do this in two motions to have a motion that we approve to adopt the resolution providing the approval i'm sorry who was that council member caballero second and seconded by mayor pro tem johnson madam clerk we please call the roll mayor shul hi mayor pro tem johnson hi council member caballero hi council member freelon hi that's member freeman hi that's member middleton i vote i that's member east i thank you thank you uh the eyes have it the motion passes unanimously we'll now move to approve the financing uh of thereof with multifamily housing revenue bonds and an aggregate amount not to exceed 12 million dollars is there a motion so move second moved by council member freeman seconded by council member freelon to approve the financing madam clerk will you please call the roll mayor shul hi mayor pro tem johnson hi council member caballero hi council member freelon hi council member freeman hi council member middleton i vote i council member east hi thank you thank you madam clerk the eyes have it the motion passes unanimously all right we'll now move to item 25 which is the last item on our agenda this is the approval of a multifamily housing facility known as j. j. henderson towers and i will now ask for a report from staff welcome again mr johnson thank thank you mayor uh likewise this is also multifamily housing bonds not to exceed 15.4 million dollars for j. j. henderson towers this is a rat conversion project uh and again the city is being asked to approve this because of the irs tax code that's reason is being presented before you and we recommend uh approval of this uh of this item thank you mr johnson colleagues you have heard the report from staff uh and i'm first going to ask if there are any questions for staff by members of the council council member freeman thank you i actually had a question come in from a member in the community and i just wanted to make sure i verified the way that these these bonds are set up for projects that will go through the derm housing authority and i guess those projects would be like i guess rfq'd or rft through the derm housing authority not through the city i just want to mention that is that is correct uh council member freeman these do these do not come through the uh these bonds do not come through the city thank you thank you council member and thank you mr johnson uh before we hear from the speakers is there any are there any other questions from from council members for staff all right we have two uh speakers here with us tonight a jack i'm sorry this is a public hearing yes it is yes you have did i miss saying that yes i'm so sorry mr johnson thank you for reminding me i will now declare this public hearing open uh thank you and i will we will now hear from our speakers uh ajax woolly and heather lad and i want to thank you all for hanging with us uh past 10 o'clock and grateful for you all uh for still being with us um madam clerk can you make ajax woolly and heather lad available to be heard they are mr mayor all right um we'll first start with ajax woolly uh and you have three minutes and if you need more than that we'll figure that out go ahead thank you good evening mr mayor madam mayor pro tem uh members of city council and staff on the eve of this historic election i want to personally thank you all uh for your commitments to public life and your continual devotion to hearing all of our divergent voices in these strange remote rooms and i hope we will all stand together in person again one day soon it's been great to see each of you out in the community at last and can and other public events that are very important to me personally uh the agenda item before you is just one mechanical step in a long and laborious process that's intended to eventually lead to the betterment of housing for vulnerable citizens who largely largely rely on the collective conscience of dha and city leaders to do the very best thing where their future housing outcomes are concerned and this is especially true during a complex redevelopment project that includes relocation derm can submitted written public comments in opposition to this item to the work session leading to this council meeting and i won't reiterate those but i'm personally curious whether council has considered those comments prior to this vote and if you and staff will soon respond to the questions that were contained in that document my own volunteer organizing work is varied boots on the ground with dha resident leaders and it yields many stories that can provoke a strong emotional response but tonight i will simply state a few facts for your contemplation and i'm happy to be publicly corrected if we know of any of these facts to be untrue uh at present dha does not have an acting director of development since the recent departure of miss uh meredith as a council member freeman stated or or queried the affordable housing implementation committee is still not completely formed because it still lacks the required participation by another two dha resident leaders and the fact that they don't need to review this item is less relevant than the fact that they have not been found among the many qualified brilliant committed resident leaders in the communities by my observation and by consistent reporting of residents at the hoover road apartments the dha property manager listed for dj hinderson during this transitional period has in fact been situated more or less full time at hoover road community since around june when a roofing replacement project first began there a key residents at hoover road report feeling deeply disrespected and mistreated by that property manager since she arrived prior to her arrival there was no on-site property manager at hoover road for several months these details are uncontroversial clues about the current internal state of affairs at dha and a brief firsthand account of organizing by the Durham camp housing team and offer them in the hopes of increasing the council's curiosity about the readiness of this crucial entity in dha to both interface with the community and successfully manage residents individual outcomes here at the outset of a period of intense change thank you thank you very much mr willy appreciate your comments and i will have some comments about them but first would appreciate hearing from this lad this lad are you available to be heard yes i am thank you thank you you also have three minutes and if you need more than that we can talk about it okay no i think three minutes is more than enough thank you mayor shul madam mayor pro tem and council members my name is heather lad and i'm a member of derm can and i'm speaking tonight as an opponent to this item to call attention to some of the problems that i've seen with the derm housing authority over the last year and including one the lack of transparency with respect to its plans to convert dha's public housing community into privately managed ones and number two maintenance issues going unaddressed until they're taken up by the news media so in september we provided written comments for the significant amendments to dha's annual plan and spoke at the public hearing that was announced on their website unknown to us at the time though there was also public hearing being held regarding the sale of jg henderson we didn't know because the hearing wasn't published on their website and no agenda was published prior to the hearing during the hearing i made a request for documents related to the sale and conversion um but despite not receiving those documents several weeks later that request was passed along as a memo for this agenda item with the appearance that our document request had been resolved when it had not we've we have since received documents and i want to thank mr shanti brown of dha for sending them and also for responding to our written comments um and we've also been assured that dha will work on increasing their transparency however i feel that what happened is emblematic of the larger problems with dha it shouldn't take the news media to get infestations and people's homes dealt with and residents shouldn't have to wait months for doors and exterior lights to be fixed especially given the rise in violence mold should be eradicated not painted over public hearings should be announced and comments at public hearings should not be written off as resolved if they weren't so i'd like to ask that agenda agenda items related to dha especially future items that will provide the affordable housing bond money to dha for redevelopment be tied to a city designated benchmarks around transparency and quality of life standards for the families that currently reside in dha community and i also look forward to receiving your comments or your responses to our written comments that we submitted thank you thank you very much miss lad we appreciate you being here um i think that uh i'll ask uh if mr anthony scott is with us i believe he is mr scott with us hi mr scott welcome mr scott would you like to respond to some of the comments that you've heard um i guess i can i can respond to a few um i believe mr willy mentioned that there was no director of development um and that was true miss day left i believe in august or maybe yeah i believe in august and so we immediately advertise for replacement for that position um that position in fact has been filled the gentleman was intended to start today but he had a family emergency so he was not able to but he should be able to start uh this week um mentioning about a manager at hoover road again employee left left our employee and we have advertised for a replacement manager we have not found an adequate replacement as of yet but that position was immediately advertised for and we are looking to get a replacement as soon as possible but of course we're looking to hire qualified staff to do so um and i believe miss lag spoke about transparency as as various things have come to our attention in terms of saying how we could be more transparent we are certainly doing our best to do so um she spoke about the uh advertisement not being on our website we follow the normal process we follow for uh these types of transactions because this is not a normal rad deal that determines the bond aspect of this so typically what we do is we we are required by by law the advertising the newspaper that's what we did and it was more of an oversight in terms of thinking it was something that needed to be specifically put on our website because we just hadn't done that in the past but in light of these being dha specific properties versus like the oakley square project which is not really one that belongs to dha um we certainly will make sure that we do that going forward which is something that we express the dorm camp and obviously the maintenance issues we are working very hard on trying to resolve uh those issues and no we don't need uh media to address those things but we are we are asking just as we've asked cans to continue to make us aware of of issues that arise that we haven't been able to address adequately so that we can get to those particularly in light of you know the current state of things with the pandemic um but it is not our intent that we really need to have these sort of interactions in order for us to be able to address things we want this to be much more regularly dealt with and there are a number of changes that are being employed to make sure that on a regular basis we can do a better job with our maintenance and that is something that we have been discussing with our board for example and you'll see a lot more um efforts around that in the in the coming months in terms of talking about what we're doing so it's more publicly known exactly what is occurring behind the scenes which isn't so evident on the surface so with that I'll pass back to you sir thank you mr scott um i'll comment just very briefly miss lad and uh mr woley thank you for your comments and i did receive your written comments and if not had a chance to respond yet but i will um sometime in the near future um and and and before tonight's ever i'll have a couple of comments about them as well all right um other uh is there anyone and there's nobody else here to speak so i this will be the only two so now council colleagues uh mayor protam thank you mr mayor um and thank you everyone for your words tonight i just wanted to make a comment some kind of still formulating and it's late so i hope this uh makes sense i feel like whenever we talk about public institutions like dha or like during public schools um that we are that that our attitude toward public institutions is um is often is often related to often comes back to this idea that we should benchmark performance in order to provide funding and i've found that happened with um with lots of other you know when with lots of other conversations around public goods and public institutions and i kind of just want to caution against that i think that it's very important for for dha to meet the standards that we have for our community with regard to maintenance um and make sure that all of dha residents have have have safe and healthy places to live but i don't think the reason that they don't is because of failings by any particular person at the dha which would then be remedied if our funding was based on performance benchmarks i think the reason that they haven't been able to keep housing up to the standard that we expect is because funding has been cut every single year for decades by the federal government um and so i i kind of just wanted to bring that context into the conversation when we're talking about an institution that does not have the resources that they need to really do the things that we want i'm concerned that the conversation turns then to um that that we somehow improve that that that institution by threatening to give them even fewer resources which is not effective what we need to do which is what i think we're doing as a city is to support the Durham Housing Authority both with public funds and um and through public action and that that is the way that we improve housing in our city improve quality of life for dha residents not by some um threat of starvation which we think will then somehow motivate people to do better i think the folks at dha are doing their absolute best with the resources that they have and our goal should be to come together as a community to provide more resources and more support um and so i just wanted to make that point lots and lots of public institutions are are in a position where they are um are really being abandoned by by our federal government and are being put in position are being put in the position where where it is just more and more likely that they will not be able to meet the needs of the communities that they're trying to serve because of decisions that are being made at much higher levels than any of us are at um we need to do all we can to support the Durham Housing Authority um and provide the resources that they need to adequately take care of their properties and residents and that should be the way that we approach our interactions so that's all thank you thank you very much madam reprotam other comments other comments at this time i don't want to miss a council member middleton like i have been if he's if he wants to make a comment thank you good thank you mr mayor actually i i uh i actually want to want to associate myself with the mayor for attempts uh comments and i first i want to thank my my friends from from derm can um for the work they've done and for the heightened attention they brought uh to this issue i do not i think we're i think both things can be true at the same time that um we need to be diligent and and double our efforts to make sure that our residents that live in in public housing our public housing here in the city get the responses responsiveness that they need and at the same time keep moving forward uh with the plans to to retool and rethink what affordable housing or low income housing looks like uh in our country the conflation i believe of denying this uh this pro forma vote really it's a pro forma vote to allow them to to move forward with this bond issuance to conflate that with what we think is not going on or what should be going on at uh derm housing authority i think is a is not the conflation we want uh all we should be uh doing um you know i if i might speak freely i i'm i'm heartened by the number of people uh present company excluded who was spoken tonight in this council but i'm i'm heartened by the number of people that have in recent months discovered just how bad public housing is um and how tough poverty is um and these issues have been festering and going on for generations i grew up in public housing um so i know firsthand some of the struggles and challenges of it and the neglect uh that that predates anthony scott that predates this this this board um but i also understand the frustration and and i understand a little something about the culture of derm can as well so i i i think that uh you're spot on to keep holding our feet to the fire uh to keep insisting that we we we pay attention not just pay attention but do what we can uh as a municipality to make sure that the derm housing authority has all the needs but that the mayor pretend is spot on that there has been a sister systemic uh disinvestment uh in housing and public housing we have a housing authority in in washington that looks at public housing with contempt i mean the people that are supposed to be most championing for these folks actually look at it as as as deficiency on your part like there's something wrong with uni public housing and that funding has you know been contoured according to that content and to that view so i do not think that again and i'll put it i'll put a period on at the end of this um i do not think that conflating this particular vote tonight with legitimate advocacy and spot on concerns that derm can't have uh about our brothers and sisters that live in these conditions uh have our our is of inflation that would be the best um way forward um but the advocacy advocacy needs to continue and we also need to continue with our our long-term strategic plan of rethinking and really having a paradigmatic shift as to what public housing looks like long-term housing looks like in our city so thank you mr mayor thank you mayor pro tem thank you councilmember councilmember freelon yes i just had a quick question for ajax and heather thank you again for your advocacy and for being here for the work uh you and derm can't have been doing um i'm just kind of curious in light of what mayor pro tem johnson and councilmember middleton have stated i'm just kind of curious what accountability looks like to you and uh i agree with i agree with their statements uh about you know withholding funds as maybe a you know counterintuitive or not necessarily to conflate those two but but i wonder uh how to what other options are available to us as councilmembers to aid in a in a bet in your efforts to hold them accountable and it sounds like you're you've kind of levied a bit of a charge that you know the media is a factor um in your opinion um and i want to know a what accountability looks like to you and be what if anything else you think we could do beside withholding funds to uh to achieve the goals that that you'd like in terms of you know in terms of accountability for the things that you mentioned thank you councilmember uh mr woolly or miss lad with either of you all like to comment i imagine we both would um but i'm happy to jump in for the sake of time um i think we're all smart enough to know that this is a pro forma vote and we didn't imagine we'd be interrupting a funding source um i think that we need to take every opportunity to solicit the attention of council uh to find ways to increase the the bandwidth of this conversation until it includes the resident voices directly which is not really practical in this forum but it's also not happening through the internal mechanisms at dha and until that does that path does become smoother i think you can expect us to um honor your your you know your request to keep the pressure on and look for ways to amplify those voices and it's really difficult right now we understand that the pandemic makes it nearly impossible but it also increases the urgency and the and and the priority of that issue um i don't know if that answers your question but i'm sure heather can can do an even better job thank you miss lad uh yeah sure um i guess the the first thing i'd like to say is just about um uh you know uh tying funding to benchmarks as i as i said and i i guess i don't um i i like the opposite situation in which you just hand over all the dollars and not expect um and not and not provide any kind of oversight is is the opposite of that and i so i have to disagree that you know you you can't tie funding to certain requirements um and then the second thing i was going to say is that you know you know these these these communities are in durham and durham has minimum housing code and you know if you go through you know durham's housing code and you compare them to violations that that they may receive from HUD through their react scores you know you'll see that they're in violation of durham's housing code so so you know so we do have ways in which we could and and we have neighborhood neighborhood improvement services that we could use to um provide inspection so uh i guess those would be the answers that i had to the to your question thank you miss lad all right um i just have a couple of comments thank you all miss lad and mr woolly and your commitment to these issues is fantastic and to the people that you are working on behalf of and with and whose voices you seek to amplify i want to thank you for that um i hear what mr woolly said about not you know not really wanting to interrupt the flow of funds i think i'll just say for myself that when i received your comments and that's certainly not the way i read it you you advocated that we not support this and i took that at face value i know you wouldn't want to deprive the people at jj henderson towers who's if we if we didn't do this renovation uh would be uh you know are already in not in the shape we want them to be in and would be in much worse i know you wouldn't want to deny that and so my suggestion is that you know say what you mean uh because what i thought you meant was that you were against this and maybe you are i i'm a little confused about it but we'd love to talk about that another time just in terms of strategy and what you are thinking um i just say i thought what the mayor pro tem said and what councilmember melton amplified is so important and i just really want to give those comments my full-throated endorsement uh we certainly hold the Durham Housing Authority uh you know to uh when we we we funded a lot of Durham Housing Authority projects Daymark Court and Maureen Road wouldn't have been renovated uh they'd be looking like Hoover Road if it wasn't for what the city has done uh we provided funding for that and provided oversight as part of that um and uh the same is true and will be true anytime that the city provides funding we have lots of oversight from the community development department work very closely with that with Housing Authority so i want to be clear about that the other thing i want to say is this i really believe in our uh the staff and our Housing Authority and Mr. Scott that they are really changing not only the culture of the Housing Authority but they are in in five years we're going to have so many more of our Housing Authority residents housed in good housing than we have now through the bond issued through the Housing Authority's plans and they're driving that as hard as they can and the fact that we have the tax credits now for the additional housing additional units at JJ Henderson the fact that we have the 9% credit now for one of the downtown developments these are crucial to the future of affordable housing in our city and without them and without the work that the Housing Authority is driven forward to make that happen we all of our affordable housing all of our Housing Authority housing will be crumbling we have to do that and it's been very hard and very difficult and i just want to say to my friends in Durham can really deserve your support um i don't in any way take your foot off the gas and advocating for residents of Hoover Road and elsewhere um keep doing it it's super important but i hope you'll also add your support to the Durham Housing Authority for the great things that they are doing and there are many okay those are my comments any other comments council member Reese thank you mr. mayor i want to thank all my colleagues for their remarks so far on this important issue um and especially just say how grateful i am uh to the folks who spoke tonight um i think what you're hearing from council members in response i think you know council member Freelon really said it best is that we really need to think about what accountability looks like for an organization like the Durham Housing Authority um and as my colleagues have said i don't think accountability ought to look like cutting off money that the Housing Authority needs to do the work that it has to do in the community uh and so i think we need to imagine together uh but elected officials and the community need to imagine together what that looks like instead you know during the time that um mcdougal terrace was being renovated uh after the carbon oxide scare and the other um significant maintenance problems that result that that were identified um during that time i had a number of Durham residents reach out to me and say we shouldn't be giving dha millions of dollars with no strings attached they need to do xyz yes they definitely need to do xyz but by golly we got to get people back in their house i mean we we got we got to we got to pay to replace the stoves and the and the and the HVAC systems and the and pay for the all all the things that the city was supporting and funding during that time were absolutely essential emergencies we you know we pushed funding through in essentially a not transparent way because it was so important to do quickly and those are things we all agreed were important um and so i just don't i don't i don't think that the normal way that we hold organizations accountable can work in this context um and the mayor pro ten brought it up but i think uh our public schools are a great analogy um you know do do we um you know if cutting funding to our school system because our kids aren't learning as well as we want them to or not i guess that what i should say is they're not achieving testing benchmarks that the state uh says are important you know that's that's certainly an approach um but i don't think it's the right approach uh because that is a they our school system before provides a public good that we need to cultivate and nurture and support um i think dha is very similar in that way obviously huge differences but ultimately we need to figure out together systems of accountability that continue to because frankly what the what derm can is advocating for in terms of you know consistent staffing that that treats residents with dignity and respect you know basic maintenance repairs done uh at some time other than when a news camera uh shows infestations of of insects those are things that that are all residents of the city of derm deserve uh including our residents of our public housing communities we just need to figure out together what that how that accountability looks like in a world where there is no other organization in the world that will do what the derm housing authority is doing for the city of derm and for our people and and that's why we are supporting them more than just about any other city in america is supporting their housing authority and we will continue to do that as long as i have a vote on this council but we also absolutely positively need to hold them accountable for doing all the things that derm can is demanding because those are all important how we figure out how we square that circle is something that i hope that we can imagine together so thank you mr mayor thank you council member uh council member freeman thank you i i truly appreciate my colleagues um noting all of the things uh that continue to to kind of keep us moving in the right direction i um truly appreciate uh mayor pro tem's comments and and noting just how how public goods and public services are uh critical to what we do and how we do it i also want to note and just bring into the conversation that there there does have to be a level of um not just accountability but just understand and i even with the deficits it's almost like we we're forced to do three times as much and so noting that you know the the city knew going into the housing bonds that the derm housing authority needed 544 million to actually complete the projects that they had on their list and the bond was passed for 95 million and we all acknowledged that as a community together and i mean the passage of the bond itself sent forward a mandate to to note that it would be through incremental measure or incremental process that this would happen so this is what incremental looks like and unless we're going to figure out how to find the other millions to push more of the projects through and to actually get all of the housing up to a livable standard um we're all living in a community knowing that our our neighbors and many of the housing authority locations face those those pictures that we saw on facebook or on on the news and it's it's uncomfortable and so i really do appreciate um ajax and heather and the derm can community for highlighting that because that that uncomfortable tension that we're all feeling is just the weight that we feel in knowing that our kids are unsafe or the you know like it's just not what we want for our community and i'm okay with that but i do appreciate my colleagues acknowledging that we can do better and we can do more and how we'll do more is what we're looking at inside i do want to say that i i know that uh the director scott has been making a lot of shifts and changes and he has a plan which i do support um i just don't see how we're going to get there which is which is the hard part and um i'm i'm more cognizant of just what it what it is when it is your unit so if it were my unit in that condition the angst that i would feel and and what the kids are facing and all and all and so i just know that the the human side of this conversation is is what's making us uncomfortable but the the reality of the logics of or the logistics of how much can we actually pour into this is limited and so i just wanted to note that um that's just that additional point that we've got to do three times as much and with far less money i i appreciate the imagining but i do want to i do want to hear because i do know that there are units that i'm still concerned about um what they look like and where they are in the process and just how much like a real number um to move us forward especially in the deficit side of it so yes on the on the bonds and everything that we've done but where are we in the plan for what where it was not included in and and that initial 544 a million so thank you thank you council member all right colleagues uh i'm now going to declare this public hearing closed and the matter is back before the council uh where are the action that we've been requested is to authorize the jj henderson towers multifamily housing project and bonds in an aggregate amount not to exceed 15.4 million dollars so moved i can move by council member reese seconded by council member cabillero madame clarkby please call the roll that wasn't mere sure it's okay what i said you wait a minute what what did i say wrong you said caviar but it was me that did the second okay mere pro tem johnson sorry madame clark were you calling the roll sure mere sure i mere pro tem johnson i council member cabillero i council member freeline i council member freeman hi council member middleton i vote i council member reese i thank you thank you madame clark the eyes have it the motion passes unanimously colleagues thank you for your dedication tonight it was a long night we did a lot of work and i think we did a lot of good work uh and i just was you know sometimes i i just want to tell you all how much i i was sitting here thinking how much i appreciated each of you and all the wisdom that you all bring to this individually and i think we did some some good thinking tonight and had some great discussions so thank you colleagues i will see you all on thursday between now and thursday there are some events um there's something tomorrow that's happening one of the problems with the adjourning so late is that at nine o'clock i gotta be out hitting some doors uh so uh i'm gonna eat something go to bed colleagues uh good to see you i'm gonna declare this meeting adjourned at 10 49 p.m one day more one day more one more dawn at the Bethesda ruritan center at 6 30 a.m is the inside partisan poll observer so um i'm going to all y'all beat i'm going out carolina federation at five in the morning if anybody is still listening and goes to vote Bethesda ruritan please don't think i'm being rude when i don't speak to you i feel positively lazy with my 8 30 shift now i'm not you're better than i knew noon now we're talking absolutely everybody good night good night y'all