Okay, which microphone am I talking into into the computer in the laptop. Okay. Okay. This is, in a sense, quite a quite a nice follow on from what Barbara was was talking about Barbara was really focusing on you know one of the fundamental issues which is in scientific data sets you've got columns, and somehow you've got to describe, you know, what that column of numbers is actually describing. And what she is screen. Yeah, keep going. Well and she was describing saying that they've they've attempted to develop a model to sort of break out into its components or into it into its pieces what a particular number would describe and of course one of those. He's still finding me. Here we are. One of the key bits of the description of a column in a set of data very often is the unit of measure by which the number that you see in a column is scaled. You know, you'd think I've been barking on about this for 10 or more years now already you would think this would be a solved problem units of measure, almost the simplest part of the puzzle compared with biology and chemistry and and all of those things. You know, because it's so simple perhaps it's actually remains a relatively unresolved issue. And, you know, basically we have this situation where everyone who's developing a project to collect some particularly quantitative data, you know they almost always start out with building a list of the units of measure which they're going to be using for their data. And the codes that occur in that list of units of measure and not necessarily consistent, not all people using units of measure, you know know about uppercase and lowercase and whether to use a slash or quotes or, you know, the traditional units of measure a type set in beautiful ways with italics and Greek letters and all of those kinds of things. And I'll show you one very bizarre one, which is very, very widely used, which where the units of measure don't resemble anything you've ever seen. So, you know, one of the biggest problems is that a lot of data is thrown away with a rather tenuous connection to the metadata about what the numbers in the columns and the tables mean. So, you know, one of the tenuous connections is what what are the units of measure here. What what is actually the scale for this number here. And then there's a kind of a social problem here which is, who is who is it who runs units of measure well, there's a whole community out there called metrologists who worry about the ninth decimal place in the conversion factors between units of measure definitions are met in some applications that ninth decimal place really does matter. Most of the time it doesn't be better if we at least knew within maybe two decimal places what the the the units of measure is that we're doing. But the metrologists of course they own this space, but they're actually pretty shit at telling people what it is they're talking about in a way that makes it easy to reuse. You know, and here's the sort of prime example the organization that manages the the international system units the SI is the Bureau of International Weights and Measures based in Paris, and you go and look up to find the definitions of weights of units of measure there and what you get you get web pages and PDFs. Okay, and the web pages and PDFs are got beautifully typeset and all of that but there's no link to the definitions of individual units of measure that you can get back a description in a way that you can use in an application in a digital application. So this is, you know, the my point for that the metrologists know what they're doing but they don't know how to tell users how to make sense of it. There's a few projects out there, which have claimed or had a go at doing a general solution to units of measure. One of the key ones being what one of the most successful ones I think is this thing called QDT quantities units dimensions and types. It's, it's a quite a nice technical solution. There's a uri per unit of measure, however they are cached statically so if you come up with a unit of measure that isn't in their list, then you've got to go through a process of getting it added to their list can take as little as a week, but it's not, you know, the next minute. So they have, I hope you can read that the these are compact you arise that unit colon stands for an HTTP blah blah blah thing, but the name of the unit of measure is something that's kind of possible to a human. So what they've got there actually they have a fairly strict rule for how to do this so it's pretty predictable what you're getting out. And they've got a whole bunch of interesting units of measure in there. Currently, nearly 2000 instances of units of measure which is why this is one of the best ones out there, including things like ACA and Australian at some stage early in their piece they decided they were going to do units of currency and I think that was a bad idea and I've told them that. But so there's not a lot of attention paid to that but but but you know they do have quite a big set. What do you get if you request one of these descriptions of a unit of measure. I'm showing you there. There's a description of cubic inch per minute in represented as a JSON which anyone who's a web developer these days would at least be able to pass that into a data structure, and you can more or less read the kind of information in there. Line for there is the conversion multiplier to convert cubic inches per minute into the SI unit for that quantity type which of course would be cubic meters per second. Everyone knew that right. But you can see a whole bunch of other information in there which is quite useful in being able to use this and make sense of it there's a dimension vector I'll draw your attention to which is, which basically is classics of dimensional analysis. The dimensions per minute is got is length to the power of three and time to the power of minus one in that in that identifier there for the dimension vector. And then there's a whole bunch of other stuff including down the bottom there just your attention to a set of codes using the you come system which I'll talk about a little bit later. In science space. Oh, I'm sorry that that project was originally developed to the project was funded by NASA, but is now a kind of standalone project and that's one of the weaknesses of it, which is that essentially depending on trying to get funding to support their system from subscribers. And, and the people who are running it are all retired or semi retired people of my vintage or older, who know what they're doing but what happens if any of those falls off the perch. So this is another significant system which is widely used in one of the communities which I think is represented in this room which is the oceanography community, the NERC vocabulary service based on British Oceanographic Data Center. They've got a whole set of control vocabulary is online in the NERC vocabulary services, several hundred. This one is their units of measure and there's a couple of hundred units of measure in here. The URIs, or the codes for them in the ID column over the left there, some of them make sense some of them you can't understand, you know what units it's referring to you'd have to look it up, but but still it's, you know, a reasonably good system. So if you do reference one of the, those, those definitions is an example femtomoles per liter, you get a web page for that. And you can also download a machine readable version again I'm showing the adjacent representation of that. There's less information in this than there is in the QUDT definitions for the same things. In most cases there's actually a link across to the QUDT ones so that you can cross reference. There's already an existing community that's expecting to use the P06 codes, but there is the mapping across to the QUDT ones I'm not sure if I chose one of these here. But for most of them there is. So, it doesn't have the conversion factors built in here, for example. And so there's a limited it's just a pure, almost a pure SCOS representation. Here's an incredibly important list of units of measure put out by the UNC fact which is basically units of measure for for trade matters this is, you know, what, what is used for commerce in the world. You know, I was saying before there's some odd codes used that those are the codes for the units of measure in the UN ECE system, and you'll see some of them kind of make sense like the decimeter and centimeter, but who would have known that E96 is degrees per second. So, you know, you have to look them up you have to know them, they are used very, very widely in in the standardization and commerce. There's some beautiful concepts in their systems here. You put container tank truck, catch shot, a stick military thing. So, you know, the, the, the range of things that need units of measure is, is pretty beautiful. I mentioned earlier you come you come is a system that was originally developed in clinical clinical health applications are still basically owned by that community. So the big advantage of you come is that you can type it on a keyboard without using the shift key actually you may have to use the shift key to get some of the parentheses but it's, it's, it's, you know, it's basically no funny characters seven bit asking. It defines an algorithm to it has a set of atomic codes, and there's algorithm to how to combine them. The combinations look like the codes that you know and love.  And the ones which are anyone who's got a scientific background would probably be able to guess. You come. Also, there are some quite nice tooling that comes along with it, including a validator and a converter. So here's a little web app that so I put in one inch of mercury as a measure of pressure. So let's put it to hectopascals which is another unit of measure for pressure. Bang, there it is one inch of mercury is equivalent to 33 and we're nearly 34 hectopascals, you know, perhaps a slightly more. Well, and there's some pretty weird ones in there. Yard acres, which would be a measure of volume as you can see 56 yard acres would be 207,000 cubic meters. So that's, but it's all based on just those little codes and I showed this one particularly to to indicate, you know that as well as all the standard si ones which are the ones you expect the so called conventional units the ones which are used in, you know for historical or cultural purposes of all that square brackets square brackets around them, but otherwise kind of makes sense. So, given the existence of a few of these different systems here there's been a team actually associated with the oboe foundry ontology system, who put together a little tool at units of measurement dot org, which basically looks up those systems for you. So, here's an example if you, and it uses the you come codes as the keys so you type in the you come code, and it's, it's, it shows you what the equivalent would be in the in nbs and p zero six in QDT and then a couple of other systems as well. So, there, there, there is an online mapping tool already available. So this is, you know, partly a mess and partly good news, I think there are some systems which are there. Not everybody knows about them, everybody's using them. So, you know, recognizing it as an issue co data established a task group on trying to calm down this. These these troubled waters. A few years ago, the task group was initiated in 2018 I'm on it.  One of the things we have to recognize and we have to accept is there will never just be one system. There are there's a lot of history here, communities have got their own needs they've got their own systems which are built around some of these existing services and systems. Getting everyone to throw them away in favor of, you know, the perfect system ain't going to happen. But if more of the, you know, new projects and new groups were aware that these existing systems were available, maybe they wouldn't have to do their own would realize they don't have to do their own. And the code the drum digital representation units of measure group has put out we had a paper in nature earlier this year. I think my paper with my biggest number of co authors 17 co authors on that some of whom I'm not actually sure what they did but it was important to have them as listed as co authors when you're making a pitch for for some kind of social change. But basically the appeal is, you know, if we don't resolve this problem then we, we've got a risk of having data sets out there which are not going to be as usable as they should be in the future. And in particular there's a liaison now for with the, this is the parent body of the International Bureau of Weights and Measures this sort of the board, CIPM, which has a task group on the digital SI. I've had a little bit to do with facts to chalk who I think is talking next is going is, I think is is is on this this committee. I think I briefed them or I briefed one of their sister committees in in in CIPM a few weeks ago on the existing sort of state of the art there, and believe it or not there is still argument about what the word quantity and quantity value and quantity and a unit actually mean. So, you know, most of us would recognize that the, this is the, the basic information model which QDT uses, and most of us would be able to make sense of this particularly if you've shown an example like this which says, Okay, this mass is a quantity kind mass. 1.54 kilograms that's an example of an individual mass so you need basically to understand all three of those bits of information in order for that number to make sense it's a mass it's it's in kilograms, and the value is 1.54 I should skip this slide sorry. So I'm just going to wrap up by saying, I think what I've tried to show is there are some good units of measurement lists that are in existence. Some of them are provided with on request, you know, in real time machine readable representations with the conversion factors. There are tools and crosswalks available for some of them. And the CIPM is liaising now with the digerati partly facilitated by codator through the through the drum project. So, I'll finish there.


Chitraduga Fort, located across several hills, overlooking a flat valley in the Chitraduga region of Karnataka, within India, is undoubtedly an incredible sight indeed. Just like that of Kailash Temple, and many other ancient temples and fortifications found across ancient India, was once perfectly cut straight from the surrounding bedrock. A feat which we claim was beyond the capabilities of those who some claim constructed them. The fort is claimed as being built in stages and is dated as having been constructed or indeed carved between the 11th and the 13th century. It was indeed, we believe, simply reclaimed as the work of these rulers in what many would perceive as a power move, becoming an intimidating fortification for outsiders to have come engaged upon. Claimed as having been constructed by the dynastic rulers of the region, including the Chilukyas and Hoysalas, later the Nayakas of Chitradurga, those of the Vijayanagar Empire, corroborating this is the lack of utilization of the tremendous effort the fort would have been to construct and that the fort, like so many other inexplicable ancient sites, was easily overcome in 1779 by Haider Ali at Chitradurga, then later by British forces. The fort's name, Chitrakaldurga, which means picturesque fort in Kannada, is also now the namesake of the town Chitradurga. Enormous boulders are incorporated into the ancient walls, with near polygonal masonry constructed around them. Built upon and into solid bedrock, one would have presumed that whoever built it would have been considerably difficult to have budged, even with incredible amounts of cannon fire, yet those who claimed to have built it were seemingly quickly invaded and overcome. Furthermore, if one looks at other ancient sites across India, also carved directly from the bedrock of Earth, one not only begins to see the similarities in the builds, but the impossible perfection of these artistic visions, once having been so precisely cut, apparently with primitive tools. It is a site, along with the rest of ancient Indian antiquities, which are, in addition, not only claimed as the work of those who lived within the New World, but are yet to have been fully explained. It is a site, which is undoubtedly highly compelling.


The question today is, why do we elders have so much sorrow and sadness in a wonderful life that we have in our living right now? My program is don't just age, but engage personal coaching for your extraordinary elderhood. And in that process, I am concerned that the people who are in their elderhood are having the empowerment and chance to see their future as being some glorious and wonderful opportunity that they can engage fully and to do so involves some help sometimes, some coaching, some counseling, perhaps some opportunity to be engaged with others who are in the same condition and same time of life. And I love working with elders. I've been an elder myself for seven years now and also have been involved in ministry and in chaplaincy work with hospice care and have been developing this understanding of elderhood and the process that we go through as we engage in elderhood. It kind of asks us to go pay attention to these things. And I've identified five spiritual tasks that I think occupy our minds when we've entered elderhood. Those spiritual tasks are grieving, sorting through our stories, forgiving, preparing, and letting go. And today, I am asking that we focus on grieving. Grieving is a very dominant emotion. And unless we pay attention to it, it will really dominate our decision making and our relationships in ways that may not be healthy and desirable. I was in my pastoral counseling courses, I had one professor who said, first thing that I ever do when I have a client is check out, what are they still grieving? What losses are they still grieving? And I've invited to help us with this today Reverend Paige Morris and Reverend Paige Morris of Bristol Hospice here on the island of Oahu, who is the bereavement coordinator for the Bristol Hospice. Paige, thank you so much for joining me, Reverend. And it's a pleasure to have you here and to have you're facing with me, the viewers who are engaging, I'm sure, themselves in elderhood or may have others in their family who are involved in these tasks of elderhood. Welcome. Thank you.  Thank you for having me. Tell us a little bit about your role at Bristol and anything about yourself, Paige. I have the delight of knowing you. So I could tell a few secrets, but not many. But I have the delight of knowing you better as a cohort, as a colleague in ministry and would like for you to share a little bit more about who you are, what you're doing here on the island, how long you've been here perhaps, and something about your work at Bristol Hospice. OK, great. I am originally from Colorado and moved out to Florida and suffered some terrible series of losses of my own rather later in my life and accepted a call to ministry at that time. And after seminary, I decided I wanted to go into chaplaincy and accepted a chaplain resident position at Queens Medical Center. And when that was finished, I went into hospice chaplaincy. And from there have come into being a bereavement coordinator with Bristol Hospice, where we care for all of the family members of our deceased patients and make sure that they have someone to counsel them and journey with them through the grieving process because it's a terrible thing to go through alone. So I work with a team of three women and we take care of over a thousand people on the island right now. Wonderful. And I know for first hand knowledge that you do it so beautifully and well. So here's here we are with grief. Let's dive into what grief is about. What is what is grief and how much grief can I sustain as an elder as an elder person? Well, the thing with grief is grief is essentially an unkind group of companions that we pick up from the time where kids whether it's through maybe our families move us a lot and we grieve for the loss of friendships in school or maybe the loss of a pet or maybe we lose our parents young or or have romantic loss. But grief can come in so many different packages. Maybe we've been abused. So we pick up these different grief companions and they accumulate. So by the time we're older, we have a whole family of them that we are struggling with on conscious and subconscious levels. And for that reason, I believe a lot of people as they are reaching elderhood or in the midst of it, feel consumed with layers of grief. And then because societally, people feel shame surrounded with grief. There's a sense of not not having societal permission to talk because we don't want to bring other people down. So grief becomes very secretive. And then it's just a lot of layers and layers of suffering. And if you just if you just ask somebody the most surface questions, most of us will find that at any age, people are grieving. I did a seminar for some UH Minoa College students a few weeks ago as part of a Bristol Hospice practicum. And we had like 40 young people. And I asked them how many of them were currently grieving something, a loss, something that was really hard. And I would say all the two or three raised their hands. So grief is something that we accumulate as we get older. And that's why it's so painful to sit in it in elderhood, I believe. So it's a cumulative, it seems. And it's possible to sustain grief over a period of years with sometimes without even knowing it. So I hear you confine that it can come back and it can be kind of like a haunting experience that stays with us. Very much so. Very much so. And because a lot of our grief, we learn to suppress or live with or not deal with, often say that we've lost our parents and then we lose our spouse. Then we have suspended grief from other losses that can impact the grief we feel for our spouse or our child or maybe a loss of agency with health. So unresolved grief from our past can have a tremendous impact on grief that is hitting us in our present. And so it can cause a lot of upheaval, a lot of feelings of am I going crazy? Do I need psychological help? How do I deal with this? And can lead to extreme behaviors with going as far as passive or active suicide in elders. So for me, it is such a significant experience that we're all having. And one of my goals as a grief counselor, as a chaplain, as a pastor, is to say, let's open this reality up so that we can be part of each other's healing, so that we can be part of the sharing of, as you talk about, when you talk about your five points of spiritual, well, when I look at those and I'm reflecting on them, they are all part of the grieving healing process. And so perhaps part of our spiritual healing that prepares us for the end of our life or for the last great journeys of our life is that surrendering and to that point of letting go of all the unkind companions that we've picked up along the way and doing that through the support and kindness of others instead of having it as a solitary journey. That's a good image page, I think, of companions along the way. And they almost are like facial people that with faces almost in our past. Let me check out my position with you and see if it rings true to you as a professional grief counselor. I'm saying that unless I deal with my grief, unless I recover from some of the grief in my history and in the present, that I won't be able to transform into a joyful life or maybe to say it more positively, when I find help in a grief counselor or a grief group, I'm more likely to be freed from that grief. Is that accurate? Yes, and maybe I'll illustrate. I think you're completely accurate. And I'll illustrate, perhaps, with a story. I have a friend who teaches Muay Thai, which is a form of martial arts. And he had had an attorney in his 60s that had come and wanted to learn Muay Thai. And so my friend gave him two five gallon buckets of half filled with sand. And had him just carry it around and around the Muay Thai studio. And finally, the attorney said, I don't get this. What is this about? When do I get to start with your training? And my friend said to him, you have so much baggage. You have so much grief and so much sorrow. And you're so closed up that I wanted you to get the feeling of what you're carrying around. And now you can put it down. And let's see if we can get you to expand and open and find that freedom that comes from letting go and putting these things down. I think it's the same thing with grief. We can become so accustomed to our grief that we don't even recognize how much it's weighing us down and how grief causes us to close inward in so many ways. And in allowing ourselves to trust that the surrendering of grief does not lessen the significance of the experience that caused it. And so allowing ourselves to become untethered to the grief and then to sit in the memory and have it as a positive or negative memory that we let go. There is where the healing is. That is so well stated, Paige. I think that the process of elderhood, going through elderhood, the stage of elderhood is not very well welcomed by many people in our society. And we are in some ways vulnerable, I say. We're vulnerable to COVID. But we're not just vulnerable to COVID. We're vulnerable also to a social consciousness that says, get over it. Or we don't really need to tend to elderhood to your feelings, your emotions at this stage of life. You're mature. You don't have to have any kind of concerns. And when we adopt that into our individual psyche, then it becomes very inhibiting to moving forward and to moving into a more gracious and what I call an extraordinary elderhood. So I'm very grateful to hear you talk about the importance of really recognizing the grief that we carry, baggage that is there, and letting it go and having health and letting it go so that we can indeed get on with the new and greater things that we have. Tell me a little bit about, tell us a little bit about now, Paige, about the process of bereavement and what right now, we're in the midst of all of this loss. COVID has had an impact on our medical lives, our medical process, our medical lives. What is, talk about the process of bereavement itself, of anticipatory grief to the death and beyond that. Would you please? Yes. So I'll start with anticipatory grief because that affects both the family and the patient. And when called to, I will come in and help families with anticipatory grief, as well as patients. That is also something that the chaplains are very gifted at doing. So for the most part, I am caring for and serving families whose loved one has already died. And as I think most people listening or watching, as well as yourself know, there is that initial shock and then a terrible hollowness that settles in. So what I try to do is to call within the first couple of days to make sure that that person knows that I am there for the journey and that there's no expectation, but the awareness that the grief that they're feeling is not something they have to navigate themselves or have to navigate just with friends and family. And then throughout that first month of grieving, there are several points of contact to try to assess what is best for that person, where the points of pain are, where the points of unknown are, many people don't our society, and I can't speak to other societies. Maybe this is prevalent throughout the world, but we don't teach people how to grieve or even what to expect in themselves when it's happening. And so loss of appetite, not being able to sleep, really intrusive thoughts, even loss of taste and smell, which is also a sign of COVID, is very common. There's racing thoughts, there's the need to keep oneself so busy that they can't think about the grief. There's guilt and anger and frustration and there can be suicide. I mean, people can get so deeply affected that they cannot cope anymore. Where I find this most tender is in our elders, especially right now because COVID makes our elders invisible. So many of our elders are dependent on family members to get them around activities that are no longer going on or to be participating in life through the assistance of others. And so there's tremendous isolation, tremendous lockdown, which is adding layers and layers and layers of suffering for our elderly, which brings up more grief. So the 90 year old woman who has just lost her spouse of 60 years will now also be grieving her loss of agency to go out and do things and the loss of the child of 20 years ago and the fear of the unknown of the future. So what I'm finding with COVID, with grief of our elders is a magnification where every grief comes into like a strong relief. And so I am caring for people and helping them move through the grieving process for stored grief. And this is new to our COVID experience. I think it's really impacted by the isolation our elders are feeling. Grief counseling is not really psychological counseling. When we go to a psychologist because we have a problem, grief is not a problem. Grief is a natural experience that we all have to go through. And so to me, it is something that is more about helping a person speak about their experiences, find out what is normal, what is not normal, how to keep them from getting into a toxic state of grief where they cannot move forward with their lives. So it's walking with that person, giving them tools and reflective listening and being very attentive to what they're going through and how to help them move through that experience through this valley, this terrible valley, so that they can come out of the other side functioning well as their life goes on. So yeah, I feel very passionate about this. So maybe I'm a little verbose, but yeah. I can see you feel passionate and deeply about it. Empathy not only for people as they go through their immediacy of a loss, for instance, in hospice care, but also that I hear you talking about the grief that comes from this particular context now in which we live because the COVID has emphasized or has pushed more people into isolation and more loss of agency. I love that word, more loss of their own agency to be able to make their life what they want it to be. And that is a grief experience. And so part of what you're doing and what you're saying, Paige, is to normalize this for all of our viewers. If you're feeling a tremendous amount of sorrow and sadness and loss, that's an appropriate normal response to the situation you find yourself in at this time. Absolutely, and when it's not normalized, that is when people feel, use words like, I feel like I'm going crazy. Yeah, yeah. Yes, and one of the things that I love about Hawaii is this great value of our kapuna. And at the same time, it's very hard to value people we cannot see. So I feel that societally we have a responsibility. It doesn't matter if you are a grief counselor or have any experience caring for people at all, we can seek out the elders in our church or in the community that we were involved in prior to COVID or in our neighborhood or our apartment building, there are so many people who just need a tender person to check in on them and say, I'm here for you and be a listening heir. I wish with my whole heart that our younger people would take more interest in their own value to our older people because when a young spirit joins that older spirit, there's such a refreshing that can take place for both people and it's a missed opportunity and it's a missed opportunity to learn and to soothe the grief in both the young and the old as creating those connections. That's a beautiful picture of connection and I have images of Colorado where you and I both were living for a while and younger people shoveling the driveway and sidewalk of the elders in their neighborhood. And how meaningful that is for an elder to have that kind of expression. Now, here in Hawaii, we don't quite have that opportunity so to speak, but there are other ways in which we can look in on each other and be aware that the people who are in their adulthood are likely isolated in ways they've never experienced before and their agency has cut back. That is such a great word to keep in mind. I thank you for that very much. So let's talk about health. What goes on in the, you keep in touch. You get in touch with people who have lost family members and others. What else do you offer? What else helps in recovery? Well, building a toolkit helps in recovery. A toolkit for grief would include, well, for example, most people who have witnessed the death of their loved one in hospice have experienced a traumatizing experience. Watching someone you love die is traumatizing and traumatizing experiences tend to generate reoccurring thoughts of the most traumatizing parts. So a tool, for example, for an intrusive, reoccurring a traumatic thought is writing the story that accompanies that thought or writing that thought, that memory down, every time it comes up or drawing it or painting it. For example, a lot of people struggle with that far away stare that comes at the end of life and not being able to reach their loved one as they fade away and that haunts them. So to be able to express that in the written word or artistically or musically or any number of ways gives the brain a safe place to put that awful memory. And the more the brain can release that those awful traumatic memories into a safe space on paper or art or music, it allows both the consciousness of conscious mind to work together to free the person to go on to the next step of grieving. And maybe they'll have reoccurring and different traumatic thoughts that come up, but it's a way to self intervene and self heal. Another thing that people experience quite frequently is panicking or crying Jags. And so teaching ways to self soothe, to interrupt the tears. One great way if a person is just finding themselves emotionally out of themselves is to put their feet in the tub or in the sink with hot water and cold pack on the back of the neck, sends two different signals to the body and interrupts that crying Jag, helps the person calm themselves. So one of the things I like to focus on is not just verbal processing, but also building a toolkit for help. And then we have grief support groups. We do one-on-one counseling. We have a wonderful volunteer choir that people can volunteer for who aren't gravers, but that gravers can participate in as in forms of healing. We really try to cover every aspect. And then if somebody is suicidal, we will do suicide intervention, or if there's abuse in the family, we will get the right people involved. If there's elder abuse or if they've lost their, people often will lose, have financial struggles when a loved one dies. So we try to just be able to touch in everything that a person is going through so that we can be part of the healing and nothing is left hanging, right? Where they would heal except for this thing that we didn't talk about or didn't discover. So we try to be very inclusive and very all-encompassing with our care. That is a terrific program. And many viewers, I mean, the program you've talked about is for families of Bristol Hospice. What about families who do not have, are people who do not have an connection with an institution or a program? Are there ways that in the community they can find these kinds of tool kits, provisions, or groups? We do, yes, well, our grief groups are open to everybody in the community. So you did not have to be affiliated at all with Bristol Hospice to join one of our grief groups. We have a men's grief group. We have a collective grief group for everyone. And then in January, we're going to be starting some additional grief groups for spouses for the loss of children or parents and just try to get, so that we're covering. And they're all online at the moment, but that will add and flow as we recover from COVID. Of course it will, of course it will. That's great to know that it's accessible to anybody on our island or in our community. And in fact, since it's online, it could be anybody in the nation. It could technically be anybody in the nation. Yeah, technically. So connect with you, what? Through Bristol Hospice Hawaii? Yes, I can be reached through Bristol Hospice Hawaii or direct probably the most efficient way would be through my email, because then I can make the connections and respond faster. So I would say my Bristol Hospice email address would be the best way to connect to me for care. That would be page.moris at Bristol Hospice Hawaii. No, bristolhospice.com. Dot com, yeah. Yeah, page.moris at bristolhospice.com. Yes. There it is. And if, but again, if you're not comfortable with email, because a lot of people aren't into their computers and maybe that's not your thing, please feel free to just call our main line and ask for me. And I'll be happy to do whatever I can to help in this journey for anybody who's listening. Yeah. Thanks, Paige. So why am I, why are we so overwhelmed at times with grief as elders? It's because it's a normal part of the aging process. It's a normal part of living and it's a normal part of growing up to be the people we are intended to be. Paige, thank you so much for being a part of this, for sharing your wisdom and your great insights and your sensitivity. We'll be back actually in January for my show to pick it up after the holiday season and to restore and return to don't just age, engage. Be well. Happy holidays. Aloha.


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