Ladies and gentlemen, please welcome our honored guests veterans from the 23rd headquarters special troops and 31 33rd signal service company. Mr. Bernie Bluestine, Mr. John Christman and Mr. Seymour Neusenbaum Accompanied by speaker Mike Johnson leader Mitch McConnell leader Hakeem Jeffries Senator Suzanne Collins senator Edward Markey Representative and Custer former representative Chris Stewart Deputy Secretary of Veterans Affairs Tanya Bradsheer Secretary of the Army Christine Wormith Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff General Charles Brown Jr Chief of Staff to the Army General Randy George and president of the ghost army legacy project. Mr. Rick Beyer Ladies and gentlemen the honorable Mike Johnson speaker of the United States House of Representatives Thank you all so much. We are so proud to welcome you here to the Capitol It is so good to see you all this morning, and I want to just Thank so much the many important folks who are here gathering my colleagues in Congress and of course Secretary Wormith and General Brown and General George and Mr. Rick Beyer who you'll hear a lot about in a little while our Friends and family and and of course the veterans of the ghost army. We are so delighted to have you gentlemen here The Congressional Gold Medal is the highest honor that this body can bestow upon any group or individual and today pursuant to S 1404 we are here to award that medal to the 23rd headquarters special troops and the 31 33rd signal services company Otherwise known as the ghost army. Could you have a round of applause for that? Give you a little historical context here Although I know most of the members of this audience already know this but these previously classified units were Instrumental and helping American troops achieve key victories in Germany and Italy during World War two These soldiers included technicians and artists from around the country and they use their talents to deceive and divert the Nazis They used inflatable tanks artillery and planes to confuse our enemy and protect our fellow entrymen Some of them landed on D-Day Some of them paid the ultimate price But because of the courageous work of this group it is estimated that 15 to 30,000 lives were saved. Thanks for that Wanted to share just one quick example of that in March 1945 under the direction of general Eisenhower 1,100 members of the 23rd special troops using sound engineering fake radio transmissions and even phony airfields Made the Nazi forces think there was a group 30 times their size playing in an attack 10 miles to the south and Vaisal along the Rhine River their illusion Successfully diverted the Germans and allowed the 30th and 79th divisions of the 9th army to cross the Rhine River from there Americans and British and the British changed are charged into the interior of Germany and within two months the 3rd Reich had surrendered Today we have the privilege of honoring three of those men in the 23rd who helped with that critical historic mission Private Bernie Bluestine private John Christman and private Seymour Neusenbaum are here with us in person I brought along a little little visual aid. I wanted to show you here in my hand I hold the armies now Declassified report detailing the contributions of the ghost army. This would be recommended reading if you can get your hands on it But it's normally housed at Fort Leavenworth. It was published 30 years After the end of World War two and here's an operative line on page 51. It sort of summarizes what this was all about Rarely, if ever has there existed a group of such few men Which had so great an influence on the outcome of a major military campaign. That's really something really something We're so honored by your presence here today And I'm truly honored to officiate this gold medal ceremony and to celebrate these incredible Brave American heroes who serve as a model for all the rest of us I know there are a lot of people who've been involved in this process and Rick Bayer You'll you'll hear a little bit more about representatives steward and custer Senators Colin and Markey I want to thank you all for your extraordinary work and your advocacy on behalf of these great veterans Who certainly deserve this honor. Thank you so much for being here Ladies and gentlemen, please stand for the presentation of the colors by the United States Army Color Guard from the third United States Infantry Regiment the Old Guard and the performance of our national anthem by the United States Army Band Pershing zone brass quintet and the retiring of the colors Ladies and gentlemen, please remain standing for the invocation delivered by Reverend Donald Fox son of ghost army veteran Fred Fox Oh, God, we give you thanks here in this historic hall We borrow words from the traditional Jewish prayer and we we thank you for bringing us to this day Here we are assembled around the Statue of freedom Surrounded by a great cloud of witnesses native Americans inventors leaders in peace in war and in civil rights We thank you God that the men of the ghost army are being recognized as soldiers who made a huge Contribution to winning World War two in Europe Without hardly ever firing a gun We thank you for the way that these one thousand one hundred individuals with their creative courage represent the best in our nation One God one nation under God indivisible We pause in holy wonder and humor as we wonder as we remember How they gained their place in history? by fooling By tricking their brother enemies the Germans that's Jacob tricked Esau We're grateful for how the soldiers of the ghost army saved lives and changed lives as one wrote in his memoirs Frightened men and women can become heroes and heroines by the grace of God There is hope for the world when soldiers leave their storybooks and climb out of their jeeps fires have to be put out and Men Even dead men treated as human beings Amen in the name of our paradoxical faith in you our Lord God of hosts and Our God of peace Please be seated Ladies and gentlemen the honorable Chris steward former United States representative from the second district of Utah What an honor to be with you today. What a beautiful event a beautiful occasion Some of you are saying who is this guy? He looks kind of familiar I left Congress several months ago because of the health of my wife And I want you to know mr. Speaker and others There's not been a single morning that I woke up and thought man. I wish I was back in Congress But we're grateful for you for your leadership General Brown you'll appreciate this. We were both Air Force pilots plus or minus one second, right? I will not take more than my time today To the speaker and the other leaders all I want you to know from a different perspective now I Understand that the American people are praying for you for our Air Force leaders and for others They're praying for our nation and I hope you feel the strength of those prayers because it's sincere because it is a Troubled time in our nation's history right now But we're here to honor these three heroes These are my father's Air Force wings. He was a pilot in World War two as well It's deep in our family's DNA as I served and many of our others have is my brothers and our children now When I started this effort as along with other leaders there were eight surviving members of the ghost army One from Utah who passed away recently at 103 We were hoping to have this commemoration before he passed away We were not able to do that but Stanley Nance is remembered. In fact, it's his granddaughter that got me involved with this I was walking through the capital in Utah once and there was this cute little 14-year-old girl here there and she had done a school project on Sorry, that's my wife. I should tell her that I can't take this right now She done a school project on her grandfather who was one of the ghost army And I got to know her and I got to know Stanley her Grandfather and we became a strong advocate. She this young girl would come out here More than once or twice and I think she was responsible herself for getting more than 30 co-sponsors of this effort a Good example of young people doing something good She would be here today except for she's serving an LDS mission and could not but her parents David and Michelle are here And we welcome them when you look at these soldiers and You look in their faces and you see their eyes, you know that our bodies get old But our souls do not our spirits do not get old in their hearts. They are young men They are still the same brave young men who were willing to sacrifice anything to serve their country And as I've already been said here They were responsible for saving tens of thousands of lives and by the way They weren't just blowing up artificial tanks or building artificial runways many of them were covert operations behind enemy lines As they would plant themselves and have conversations in Hotels or in cafes to again to deceive the enemy as they would have over here these conversations It was an incredible Psychological operation and one of the most successful counterintelligence operations in human history To all of those who have been involved with this Thank you to those of you we honor and who deserve to be honored and to your families who have sacrificed as well We should recognize the spouses who were involved with that sacrifice It is an honor to honor you. God bless you. Thank you for your effort. God bless the United States of America Ladies and gentlemen the honorable and Custer United States representative from the second district of New Hampshire Good morning.  Thank you We're recognizing veterans from the 23rd headquarters special troops and the 31 33rd signal service company or as we have come to know them the ghost army And I should start by thanking my college classmate historian Rick Beyer Who did the extraordinary work to bring this story to life wrote the book worked on the PBS special and Came to me to say could we get these gentlemen the honor that they deserve with a congressional gold medal And I said sure how hard could that be? And it turns out it took seven years and thank you to your colleague your Constituent 14 year old from Utah. Thank you to all of the families and the advocates who are with us today We did it and I really appreciate the effort that it took during World War two as the Nazis marched through Europe this Extraordinary top secret group was given an assignment Deceive the Germans and create an opportunity for the Allied forces to turn the tide of the war This required innovation creativity artistic talent and a very special kind of courage using inflatable tanks and sonic deception they used Sound of thousands of troops trucks and tanks and jeeps When there were only dozens of troops and it worked they deceived the Germans The ghost army made it appear as though Americans had thousands of troops Gathered on the Moselle River and in other parts of the theater these secret soldiers were innovators and they played a Decisive role in turning the tide and winning the war and thanks to their ingenuity and boldness The ghost army as you have heard and will hear over and over Save tens of thousands of lives. I Cannot help but think of my own father Malcolm McClain a World War two fighter pilot similar to Chris's family he Flew over D-Day He flew 73 missions and he was shot down in the Battle of the Bulge in the very same theater Where our veterans here today? We're fighting for freedom and fighting for their lives He served for six months at the end of the war in a German POWW camp Getting down to 120 pounds and when he came home He did not talk about the war and I know from the family of Mickey McCain From the ghost army who are with me today from Keen, New Hampshire and many of you who are my age at This event today. Our fathers did not talk about the war But with the ghost army they particularly didn't talk about the war because it was secret and one of my favorite lines Was one gentleman who only would tell his family. I blew up tanks Without saying they were unplayed of all tanks As you've heard only seven members of the ghost army are still alive And I want to take a moment as others have to recognize private Bernie Bluestain Seymour Nussin private Seymour Nussinbaum and private John Christman and to thank their family members for getting them here today Seymour and Bernie are 100 years old and Served in the 603rd camouflage engineers the visual deception wing they were friends during the war and Reunited at a ghost army event after 75 years apart. I wish my father could have made You he would be 100 this year as well John Christman who is 99 years old served in the 406th combat engineers the security and heavy Equipment wing and as I just learned before this ceremony John can still recall Guarding the sonic trucks as they drew enemy fire Thank you for your courage To these brave ghost army veterans and all the loved ones gathered here today Thank you for your service. Thank you for your sacrifice. It's appropriate that we should be here with the Statue of freedom and Thank you our country and our world would not be the same without your bravery God bless you and your families. God bless this incredible country. Thank you Ladies and gentlemen the Honorable Edward Markey United States senator from Massachusetts I'm immensely proud to speak today about those who served in the US Army's 23rd special headquarters troops and the 31 30 third signal service company To many these soldiers are better known as the ghost army and after a decade of legislative effort Since their contributions were Declassified we are here to award these troops the congressional gold medal. They earned it They deserve it. It is a day that will always be remembered in the halls of Congress I thank my colleagues for their steadfast partnership and getting this legislation passed senator Collins Congresswoman Custer Congressman Stewart and the leaders in both chambers who supported our efforts of leader McConnell leader Schumer speaker Johnson leader Hakeem Jeffers and Congresswoman Catherine Clark. Thank you for your leadership and Rick bryer. Thank you for all of your great work I know I joined everyone here today to applaud the veterans of the ghost army for their valiant efforts during World War two we can never repay them for their invaluable Contributions to the allied victory and thank you to the surviving vets For being with us here today as you've heard and we'll hear from others today The ghost armies tactics were meant to be invisible But today their Contributions will no longer remain unseen in the shadows These brave soldiers embody the bravery the skilled the courage found in American heroes They use their exceptional creativity and resourcefulness on the battlefields of Europe to create complex Illusions and impersonated other allied units to deceive military leaders of the Nazi Germany leadership and other access nations to achieve this they the soldiers used inflatable tanks fake radio transmissions sound trucks and stage intricate and cinematic battlefield situations that misled the army about the composition and Disposition and strength of American forces are raid against them Enemy forces were convinced that they were the ones at a tactical Disadvantage the ghost army Deceptions led the enemy to adjust their battle plans and without their heroism and estimated 15 to 30,000 American soldiers Would not have made it home from World War two The soldiers recruited for the ghost army were not only men of muscle, but they were also men of the mind They were creative Original thinkers who used engineering art Architecture and advertising to wage battle with the enemy their weapons were unconventional But their patriotism was Unquestionable and after the wall was one veterans of the ghost army returned home and use their undeniable talents to contribute to their communities and our country as public servants authors and engineers One of those veterans was my friend The late Jack McGlynn of Medford, Massachusetts His family is here today Mayor Mike McGlynn his son Sheila McGlynn Jack McGlynn junior Diane McGlynn Dick McGlynn Paula McGlynn Karen McGlynn Bernadette McGlynn Kevin McGlynn and like all the other families here today just so proud of what their Family members did during World War two Jack served as a sergeant in 3132nd Signal Company Special and was one of those soldiers who worked on innovative industry changing technology that allowed the battlefield deceptions to be successful and after returning from the war Jack served as the mayor of Medford as his son would follow him He also served as a state representative and I got to serve with him in the Massachusetts state legislature this great man and Although Jack passed away in 2016 the first year I introduced the ghost army congressional gold medal legislation I'm happy to report that Medford's elementary school is now named after Jack and he gave us another great local leader as I said His son and I'm proud that he and his family are here today and they Absolutely so proud of their father when when his son Michael asked his father in 1996 after all this information was declassified dad Why didn't you tell us and his father said to him? Because I'd be betraying my family and my country and all those people I served said his father a member of the greatest generation that's who these men were And continue to be so my colleagues and I introduced the legislation To recognize and honor the ghost army with colleagues from both sides of the aisle and from both chambers And that same bipartisanship is here today. It's no small feat to get all these congressional leaders in this room together Smiling and in agreements. It's like it's like a political Haley Comet But the heroes of the ghost army and their families are used to defying their surroundings for the sake of making history So we come together in celebration today Not just simply for the ghost army, but also to keep alive the memory of all of our veterans and the families of those who are gone So that the generations that come will know about all of these extraordinary American soldiers Congratulations to the families Ladies and gentlemen the honorable Susan Collins United States Senator from Maine Thank you What an extraordinary honor it is to participate in this Congressional gold medal ceremony for the soldiers of the ghost army Today we finally Will give long overdue Recognition to these Extraordinary soldiers for their brave and resourceful service during World War two and Isn't it wonderful that three of them are here with us today? more than a thousand soldiers from the 23rd headquartered special troops and the 31 33rd signal service company Volunteered for a perilous mission to outwit and Confound the forces of Nazi Germany Among these soldiers was private first-class Gardner stone of Poland, Maine I'm delighted that his daughter Carol Allen Her husband Clarence and their son Craig are among the families with us today for this much-deserved and Long overdue Recognition I Also want to recognize just as Andrew Mead of the Maine Supreme Judicial Court and his wife Kelly Who have also traveled to Washington to join us? I want to give full credit to justice me. He was the one who first contacted me and Educated me about the ghost army. I'm so grateful that he did His father was just a sophomore at the University of Maine When he enlisted in the army at the recruiting center in Bangor, Maine He was a member of the signal service company and was deployed to Italy in early 1995 Also with us here today is Melinda Skelton McKinney from Windham, Maine Who honors her father? William Skelton service in the ghost army William served as the captain in the camouflage Engineers unit he received the bronze star for meritorious service for five battle engagements These veterans were among the handpicked soldiers who volunteered for the ghost army's remarkable Assignment on the front lines in Europe using visual deceptions like inflatable tanks aircraft and artillery Loudspeakers and fake radio transmissions this unit out Maneuvered and deceived the Nazis at great Personal risk these soldiers successfully diverted enemy resources and as we have heard today Saved tens of thousands of American lives the courage and Ingenuity of these top secret units were pivotal across the European theater in World War II and Like any cutler my father also was a veteran of the Battle of the Bulge where he was wounded twice and Secured two purple hearts the Ingenuity and Contributions of the ghost army were classified for decades without its members receiving the recognition that they deserved it was not until 1996 that their heroic actions were Declassified and the American public began to learn the full scope of their Contributions to achieving our allied victory I Was so proud to co-sponsor in the Senate with senator Markey the bipartisan bicameral legislation to honor these unsung heroes with Congress's highest civilian award and today Finally today Congress will be so this long awaited honor on these deserving veterans May God bless these heroes and their families and may God bless the United States of America, thank you Ladies and gentlemen performing the song American Patrol is the United States Army band Pershing's own brass quintet I Ladies and gentlemen the honorable Hakeem Jefferies Democratic leader of the United States House of Representatives Speaker Johnson leader McConnell to representative customer representative Stewart senator Markey senator Collins members of Congress the Joint Chiefs of Staff veterans of the 23rd headquarters special troops of course acknowledging the 31 33rd signal service company Families of the ghost army and all those assemble Good morning, and thank you all for your presence here today It's a high honor and a distinct privilege to offer my heartfelt and deepest respect On behalf of House Democrats to the ghost army of World War two as they are presented with the Congressional gold medal Congress's highest honor During World War two Winston Churchill once observed that in wartime Truth is so precious That she should always be attended by a bodyguard of deception We gather today to pay homage and To honor the legacy of a group of covert creative and courageous American war heroes who guarded truth and our precious troops with righteous deception the members of the ghost army were artists architects actors Radio broadcasters fashion designers engineers lawyers and more But above all else. They were great Patriots They were daring determined and devoted The ghost army duped the Nazis saved tens of thousands of lives and helped America Secure a decisive victory in World War two to make sure that freedom prevailed over fascism Yet their story was of course a classified secret For half a century and many ghost army patriots took that secret to their grave Today's ceremony therefore in this Congressional gold medal Reaffirms our commitment to remembrance and reverence as we honor all of these patriots Including Bernie Bluesting John Christman and Seymour Nussinbaum Who happens to be from Brooklyn? Somehow some way Brooklyn is always in the house. It's an honor to be in your presence Because there is no higher Responsibility and no greater moral obligation that we have as public servants Than to be there at all times for the brave men and women who have been there for us in uniform We salute the ingenuity of their spirit Creative brilliance and the bravery they displayed in risking their lives to confuse and deceive the Nazis on the battlefield President Eisenhower once reflected When talking about World War two That every war is Going to astonish you in the way it occurred and in the way It is carried out heroes and patriots We thank and honor the members of the ghost army for their unique service To our nation as well as for their commitment to saving lives defending democracy and Standing up for freedom in the face of tyranny the ingenuity and valor of the ghost army has astonished a Grateful nation Congratulations on this well-deserved honor May God bless all of you and may God continue to bless the United States of America Ladies and gentlemen the honorable Mitch McConnell Republican leader of the United States Senate. It'd be tough to find a story The better captors the extraordinary breath of our nation's wartime experience Than the legend of the ghost army The story of commitment and resolve bravery and devotion and remarkable talent and ingenuity The crucible of the second world war demanded that best America had to offer on every single front But the ghost army May have been the only place in history where you could find a demolition specialist like Jack Christmas a counterfeit patch designer like Bernie Bluestine and Seymour News and bomb all working toward the same goal Fooling the enemy It's the only place where a kid from a hometown of Louisville like Georgia tool Could find himself at the center of some of the war's most sensitive hot tech breakthroughs The sonic deception a Mission that I'm proud to say was forged in Kentucky at Fort Knox Our nation has been slow to recognize these men's Incredible achievements and of course that was partly by design They weren't just helping win a world war Whether they knew it or not they were developing top-secret ways to help preserve a hard-won piece through the Cold War but today Today the veil of secrecy is gone And when I read incredible stories like Jack's Bernie's or Seymours, I think about my own father's path across Europe in the spring of 1945 as an foot soldier in Patton's Army. I Think about how he made it home to my mom and me after two-thirds of his company Was wiped out and I think about how these stories or intertwined How as one ghost army veteran put it sparing one mother or One new bride the agony of putting a gold star in their front window was what his unit was all about So to Seymour Bernie and Jack And to your comrades not with us today a Grateful nation knows how you answered the call in Each time of need America will never forget your service and I'm so very proud to join in honoring you today Ladies and gentlemen the honorable Mike Johnson speaker of the United States House of Representatives What a great event. This has been thank you Leader McConnell and all of my friends and colleagues here Today we honor those who passed and those who have survived to tell this great tale of the ghost army Privates Bluestine Christmas nuisance bomb. It's a true privilege to meet you all and from the bottom of our hearts all the applause today is well Earned well deserved and we thank you for serving our country as you have Sunsuit taught that all warfare all warfare is deception and in the final years of the war this group applied that principle to force The Nazis to divert resources away from the real threat when our when our troops were near This group made the enemy believe they were far away and when we were small They made the enemy believe we were much larger and it has been as has been noted here a total of 1,100 men in the 23rd served in Germany in France and 200 men and 31 33rd They served in Italy they gave their talents and their lives to defeat the Nazis and preserve freedom around the world And for that we are forever grateful Hakeem I wanted to raise you your your Brooklyn. I'll see your Brooklyn and raise you a Louisiana. Okay, and Mitch and you can get Louisvillian. Okay, I Just one more story to highlight and I wish don't you all wish we had time to highlight Every one of the individuals who served so valiantly, but I want to tell you about Jim Jim Stighe He was born in 1922. He was the middle of Middle child of five children. He grew up on a farm rural Louisiana and while he was enrolled in art school Jim registered for the draft and he went on to serve in the armies 23rd in the special troops as a part of his covert unit He helped make fake tire marks and he he pumped pre-recorded audio across enemy lines through camouflage speakers When he wasn't making inflatable artillery Jim made portraits of his fellow soldiers and even of Russian refugees that his unit cared for He and his fellow artists soldiers would even put on art shows in their tents little humanity on the battlefield Sadly, we know history tells us in the story records that many of those that Jim painted did not even live to see the end of the war They they serve as reminders of the heavy cost of freedom and the devastating effects of tyranny But over the course of the war the Nazis regularly stole great masterpieces in an attempt as you know to consolidate Power and crush the human spirit, but here's the thing Just as the enemies of freedom were stealing and destroying the world's great works of art Men like Jim Stighe were using their God-given talents creating new works of art to defeat our enemies and uplift the spirits of their fellow soldiers After his time in the military Jim moved to New Orleans where he became the city's most influential printmaker He spent four decades teaching at Tulane University and mentored countless Louisiana art students Those who knew Jim remember him as a problem solver He used his creative talents for the good of his fellow soldiers and for the good of our country and for the good of all his students and his fellow man and While Jim has already passed his family is here his wife Francis They're with us today up from New Orleans is a great privilege to welcome you all here. Would you raise your hands where I think they're Somewhere there. Here. We are Thank you Take that Brooklyn. I'm just saying I'm just saying Before I close I would like to also honor Rick Byer you've heard his name many times today if you don't know Rick You should he began working on this project 19 years ago and he's been working on getting the gold medal for nine years Rick you're about to hit your 20 year mark on this project and it ought to come with a pension my friend It's it's taken a long long time in 2005 Rick was introduced to a woman who was the niece of a member of the ghost army and her story sparked his interest and launched him on This journey of telling the stories of these brave men and because of Rick the ghost army has been recognized with websites and documentaries and books and museum exhibits and multiple monuments in Europe and now Finally with the congressional gold medal on behalf of everyone here Thank you for all that you've done to honor these men and their families Rick We owe you a great debt of gratitude. It hasn't even aged you. You must have started when you were 10 years old Amazing at this point I would like to invite finally so that we can all honor them appropriately the three veterans to the stage to accept this Medal on behalf of all members of the ghost army and feel free to applaud as I call their names first Mr. Bernie Bluestine Second, Mr. Seymour Newsenbaum Finally, Mr. John Christman and if I could have join us here to the front mr. Rick Byer Leader McConnell leader McConnell leader Jeffries senator Collins and Markey Representative is Maloy Custer and Stewart secretary warmeth general Brown and general George Could you join us on the stage or in the front for the photo? Yeah Maybe on stage so we can get everybody yet Ladies and gentlemen, mr. Bernie Bluestine veteran 603rd camouflage engineers 23rd headquarters special troops That's all of you know, I'm not a speaker and I Came over not to make a speech, but they just Personally, thank a few people that deserve my highest regards and thanks The number one goes to to Rick Byers Rick Byer Started this whole thing it wasn't for Rick. I wouldn't be up here along with my comrades here He took the initiative when the Information was released from the government and immediately decided to Notarize us a little bit and let the world know that we did exist and That was quite an undertaking he did quite a successful job Took a lot of hard work with a lot of hard-working people Campus in Congress and getting the proper vote and getting the president to sign it. I would also like to personally thank Gary Sinu see for Personally sponsoring my trip here Was very generous of him and his foundation and I want to personally thank him for that I want to thank everybody in my life that I've contacted many of you You've all contributed to my Existence and to my being who I am And I'm very proud and happy to be here to receive this honor Thank you Ladies and gentlemen, mr. Rick Byer president of the ghost army legacy project Thank you very much. I did not serve in the ghost army just to be clear on that so Here for you guys It has been 80 years since the ghost army landed in France 19 years since I came to this story nine years that I've been working on The gold medal. This is a day that has been a long time coming But it has been well worth the wait, right? I want to thank our four sponsors who all have already spoken senators Ed Markey and Susan Collins Representatives Chris Stewart and Annie Custer. I saved Annie for last Because she is special She and her aide will Pizano who's also here with his dad today. Where where are you will? Where are you stand up? Will Pizano They have been involved from the start and he was the first to introduce this legislation and so she started the ball rolling I also want to thank the 370 Representatives and senators who signed on to this bill mr. Speaker I know that you know how hard it is to get stuff done in Congress Am I right? Here was a bill that had no big money and a powerful interest behind it and yet 370 representatives and senators signed on as co-sponsors simply because it was a good idea Yes, and I want to thank I want to thank the people who lobbied for this bill many of them are in this room You fought for this in person by phone by email by zoom You worked for hard for years to make this happen and you deserve our deepest gratitude and Then yes, yes, please and then there are the veterans Bernie Bluestine John Christman Seymour Nussinbaum who are here with us today There are other veterans who are watching from home today Thank you, and there are all those who are no longer with us When the ghost army soldiers were landing at Omaha Beach when they were setting up inflatables in the rain Near the front line in breast when they were freezing in the snows outside of Bastogne or drawing fire on the gothic line in Italy They would have been shocked by the idea that 80 years later a Grateful nation would honor them in this way Because no soldier who served in this unit considered himself a hero I have talked to many veterans of the ghost army and each told me that the real heroes were the Infantry men and the tankers who bore the brunt of the fighting But it has always struck me that the ghost army's deception mission demanded a special kind of courage To project strength when you have none To purposely draw enemy fire to keep it from falling on others a dangerous business Not for the faint of heart. I Note the presence in our audience today of many us army officers from the rank of sergeant all the way up to the army Chief of Staff general Randy George Particularly well represented. I should also mention the chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff is here General Brown particularly well represented are the US Army's psi up forces What the ghost army accomplished is not simply trapped in the past it remains an important inspiration to the army today in January 1944 private Harold doll of the 603rd camouflage Engineers wrote home from Camp Forest, Tennessee After learning for the first time about the deception mission they would be carrying out I can't tell you who else is with us nor what we will do when we start to do it on Monday But it promises to be very interesting and And frankly it looks like we are at last going to play a real part in the war effort Lieutenant Gil Seltzer described it more succinctly. We all came to the conclusion that this was a suicide outfit But they had a job to do so they put themselves in harm's way wielding imagination bravado and creativity In order that other soldiers might be able to fight and live four men died Carrying out these missions But most of them came home and then kept quiet about it for decades and don't you think that's remarkable In yeah In July 1945 after taking part in Operation Veersen that you've heard about the deception carried out for the crossing of the Rhine River Harold doll was now a seasoned veteran. He'd been there for a year already. He wrote home again He said General Simpson sent us a commendation giving us a major credit for the success of the crossing We understand he also recommended us for a presidential citation. We are mighty proud of that little deal The presidential unit citation never happened likely because of secrecy But the get it today the 1,300 men of the ghost army are finally getting their due On behalf of the veterans Bernie Bluestine Seymour Nussinbaum and John Crispin who are here today on behalf of private Harold doll and Lieutenant Gil Seltzer Whose families are here today on behalf of other veterans watching from home On behalf of all their fellow soldiers their children and grandchildren On behalf of the men whose lives they saved and their children and their grandchildren I thank Congress and the president and everyone who helped make this happen for Recognizing and honoring the laudable wartime service of the ghost army. Thank you so much Ladies and gentlemen the Honorable Christine E. Wormith secretary of the army It's a privilege to be here today With my battle buddy the chief of staff of the army general Randy George To say a few words on behalf of the men and women serving in today's army Who carry forward the legacy of the units that we're honoring today as a whole bunch of speakers has said this Recognition is long overdue the actions of the ghost army help change the course of the war for thousands of American and allied troops and Contributed to the liberation of the continent from a terrible evil So we owe the three of you and all of the soldiers of the ghost army a great debt of gratitude for your service We teach our army planners that the cornerstone of what we now call military deception operations Is the story and the ghost army were master storytellers Many of the tank the techniques that you all pioneered can still be found on the battlefield today and even though technology has changed quite a bit since 1944 our modern techniques build on a lot of what the ghost army did and we are still learning from your legacy Our experience observing the war in Ukraine has shown us that even with an increasingly transparent battlefield Military deception can still have a significant impact on military operations And like so many soldiers serving today the ghost army did not seek out credit for all that it had done Their dedication in fact to preserving the secrecy of the unit long after the war is a testament to their loyalty and commitment to the nation and It probably didn't hurt that as mr. Crispin told me when they came home from the war General Eisenhower sent all of the soldiers in the ghost army a letter Fanking them for what they had done, but he had a PS. He said if you tell anyone I'll see that you hang So that might have helped But I know we're all pleased that we can now recognize the three of you and the 1100 other members of the ghost army Your story continues to inspire Thousands of men and women in our army today and Americans all across the country Thank you for serving the nation and leading the way as masters of your craft congratulations Ladies and gentlemen, please stand for the benediction delivered by chaplain major Aaron Stucker Rizovsky 338th Medical Brigade United States Army Reserve Good morning and blessings. I Invite you to pray according to your faith tradition or deeply held beliefs as I pray in mind Avino Shiba Shemayim our beloved God in heaven and safer Shoft team the book of judges We read of your divinely appointed servant the judge Gideon who with a small physically and mentally tough rigorously selected elite band of 300 warriors used a combination of audacity skill daring and deception to sew confusion fear and most importantly defeat Into the hearts of the massive Midianite army Thousands of years later to elite and likewise small groups the 23rd headquarters special troops and 31 33rd signal service company the ghost army again used to these attributes of audacity skill daring and deception To throw the evil that was Hitler and his Nazi armies into utter disarray their efforts saved untold allied lives helped liberate a continent and the unspeakable horror that was the Holocaust and brought about the end of the second world war bluntly these soldiers helped save the world and humanity itself Your beloved warrior servant and psalmist David wrote off. Nahalat Shafri ally Yay, I have a goodly heritage Our American heritage is the ghost army and our freedom our liberty is their gift and legacy to us again and again You remind us. Oh God Zahor Zahor remember Remember as We depart from the capital of our great nation and this sacred ceremony today Let us all remember remember The men and women who advocated tirelessly For these heroes to receive the Congressional gold medal The members of the House of Representatives and Senate who used to their offices to make sure that this recognition would come to pass And finally And most importantly The soldiers themselves of the ghost army May we never forget all that they did for us May their story be told in this and every succeeding generation May it be told in our cities and towns In our schools and places of worship to our friends and neighbors and to our families May their righteous deeds and heroic memory live with us and a grateful nation forever and ever May God bless the ghost army the US Army and the United States of America and let us say Amen Ladies and gentlemen, this concludes today's ceremony. Thank you for attending and enjoy the rest of your day


There's history here. And here. There's history there. History is everywhere. Welcome to the Southern Oregon History Show. Our show features historical museums and societies from throughout Jackson County. I'm Amy Drake, exhibition curator at the Southern Oregon Historical Society, and your host for today's show. With me is Helen Walgama from the Eagle Point Museum and Sherry Lawson from the Guardians of the Eagle Point Museum. Thank you for being on the show and welcome. Thank you. Thank you. So, it sounds like we have two people here from different institutions, the Eagle Point Museum and then the Guardians of the Eagle Point Museum, but that you represent different things. What's going on here? First, the Eagle Point Museum is, I think, one of the only ones in Jackson County of the museums that is owned by the City of Eagle Point. They own the land, the building, and everything in the museum. And I'm here to represent the City of Eagle Point at the Eagle Point Museum. Okay. And then the Guardians. And the Guardians were formed to help maintain the museum and help the city do other projects that they're not able to do. And we do that from fundraising and we have been given non-profit status so we can apply for grants and just to help the museum out. Okay. So, again, two different entities, city and non-profit support, essentially. When was the Guardians formed? We formed in 2012. Helen actually was spearheading that because of the Historical Society disbanded. She wanted to get another one up and running and so she was our first president. And we got non-profit status in 2013 and got a JCC grant to create a website. And so we have a website now. We'll come back to that a little bit. I want to talk more about the history of the Eagle Point Museum first. So, when was the museum founded? We opened our doors in 1978 and the idea was presented to the city in about 1978, 1975. And the community thought that was a good idea so they helped promote that. The school district, we started our museum with the One Room Schoolhouse. It was called the Long Mountain Schoolhouse and they moved it over to the school in 1947 and used it as a classroom and then it became a storage facility for them. And the group of Eagle Point decided that they wanted to have a building to put their old stuff. So the school, so the fellow people that owned the land, Eddie DeHack, donated the land and they moved the schoolhouse from the school to the present on it over there by the Buchrich Mill and it's noted as the historical district. And then the people got together and we opened our doors in 1978. So we've been the second museum in Jackson County other than the Southern Oregon Historical Society. But we didn't start getting any funding from the group until 1987 when they wanted to bring the Covered Bridge to Eagle Point, the Antelope Bridge, for Walkway and Winniger that was the head of that group. He decided, well there must be some funding. So they went to the Southern Oregon Historical Society. And then we disappointed ourselves with baked food sales and yard sales and Gay Nail Crabbill wrote a history book and she used the proceeds and donated all the proceeds to the Eagle Point Museum. That time it was the society. And then in 1987 they decided we needed a roof on the old schoolhouse. So we said well we don't have the money so that's when we asked them to get our fundings and that's how we began to. To make clear that funding came from the county. County. Because there was a heritage district. Because there was a heritage district and they used that money to help put the roof on it. From then on we hired a creator and we developed our museum. Okay. Do you have anything to add to the history of the museum? Helen knows the exact date that the two editions were put on. I think she mentioned. Okay. So the Eagle Point Museum obviously represents the history of Eagle Point. Can you talk a little bit about the history of the town? The town was, well it was named Eagle Point they say in 1853. They saw some eagles that nested on the bluff above and somebody said well what should we call this and they said well their eagles nested up on that point so why don't we call it Eagle Point. That's the story you know there's probably other ones out there but that's the story we get. And then we became a city and it was incorporated in 1911. Why the time gap? Well it was a community until then and then they got the city that became big enough that they did inside the corporate. You know a lot of little cities around here in Phoenix and Talbot they did the corporate it and near the same time. So that's when they incorporated just like White City they're not incorporated but they're still White City. So what drew people to Eagle Point? Like I know your family has a long history in Eagle Point. What are you there? My family came to this area in 1853 and they homesteaded up at Roxanne. But my mother and their family didn't move to Eagle Point until 1908. But my dad's family came in around the 1900s and they ran a livery stable downtown a business. And first it was a freighting business and then they decided to do the livery stable. So that's kind of how it was the connection to Eagle Point. My family has always been involved in Eagle Point. My father was on the school board, my brother was on the school board, my husband was on the school board, my husband was a teacher so I'm really connected to Eagle Point. Yeah, it sounds like a really strong bond. And in the museum I have a lot of artifacts that pertain, you know. When they started it, that's what they wanted to do is take some of it. So people could understand what our pioneers struggled for our freedom we have today. And I always have to add the veterans in there because if it wasn't for them, we wouldn't even be here. They're very important to me. So speaking of the objects in the museum and just the stories that they tell, I'm going to get this question to Sherry just to switch it up a little bit. But do you have a favorite piece at the museum? I do. I like that Eureka stove, that portable stove. You describe the stove? Yes. It was built in 1934. I gull gull did. It has little burners on the outside. And then when you push them up and latch them, then it heats up the oven that's on the inside. It's adorable. You could use it in these days. I don't know why they stopped making them, but it is my favorite piece. Can you think of a piece that particularly represents Eagle Point's history? Oh my. I'd have to really think about that. Sorry. It's okay.  Who's John Matthews? He was one of the original pioneers and he was the one that did name Eagle Point. Okay. But every time I turn in the corner, he has this kind of scowling feature to him. And we have that concrete thing as you walk up the door, his name, and his features outlined in copper, I think it is. A monument. Okay. Helen, do you have a favorite piece? Well, I think everybody goes in there and has a favorite piece. So what is your favorite piece? Well, probably my favorite piece is the story of Oli Boltman. We have a doll there that represents her. She was in 1851. She was captured by the Indians. They massacred her family. And she lived with the Indians for a number of years in the Yuma, Arizona area. And when they found her, there was old ones that lived here in Phoenix, Oregon. And so when they were returned to the area, the old ones went and picked them up and brought them to Phoenix, Oregon. And they lived with my ancestors for a year and taught her to read, write, and sew. And this lady that last year donated a doll that was made, especially, and they tattooed it under the Indian to make sure that branding or that they were their property. It's quite a story and it belonged to this whole area of, to me, that's kind of life. There's other things. They're all favorites, but that one kind of stands out to me, the history behind that. Well, you're wearing a shirt that represents the Eagle Point Museum. Can you stand up and show us the shirt? Talk about it? Just turn around. I don't know what's on the back of it. You do? Jerry, can you talk about the back of Helen's shirt? Yes. It has a wonderful eagle in the middle. It has our covered bridge, the Antelope Covered Bridge, the Butte Creek Mill, the Harnish Wayside, which is a fairly new park, and the avenue of the flags of which Helen is very instrumental in keeping going. Thank you. And that's it. Is it available to buy at the museum or is it special? When it was a society, we ordered these t-shirts, but we haven't ordered any new ones. We still have about eight or nine still in there for sale. They're like this. We just thought it would be nice to be able to share it and wear t-shirts that showed that. Yes, they are for sale. The point's a Eagle Point. So it's a part of the institution's history, basically. So the Eagle Point Museum has gone through a number of transitions. You mentioned the society, and now the Eagle Point Museum is run by the city, and there are the guardians to do fundraising. To talk more about the city. So when did the city take ownership? Just what year? It was about 1908. I mean, 208. 208. Okay. And here it is. What changes occurred when the city took ownership? We were able to pay somebody to sit there longer hours. So you have paid staff. That's great. That's really great. Sherry, Julie, and you, and Marcy. When I work every other week, and they, when I'm off, each of them take turns sitting at the museum. And I was there when they opened in 1978, so I've been there for like 37 years. So yes, we went through a lot of changes. And did your hours increase? We were, before the city took over, we only were there on Saturdays from 11 until 3. And since they took over where they're on the summer hours from 10 to 5, in the winter time we're there from 11 to 4. But multiple days of the week now, right? Right. Friday, Saturday, and Sunday. Oh, wow. Before that, we were only just open on Saturdays, because we just, to get volunteers, and so many. So again, lots of changes. Yeah. Ups and downs. Like any organization. Exactly. It happens to all of us. So we've talked about the objects in your collection. Where do they come from? Besides from Helen, you mentioned you donated some of them. But where else do they come from? Local families donate. Objects that their families have brought over on the Oregon Trail, or from the East. And their collections. And one gentleman brought, his wife passed away, there's a wonderful purse collection, there's China collections. He didn't know what to do with all these wonderful things his wife had. He thought if he donated them, he could come back and visit them. And his children do come back and look at their mother's things. That's sweet. It is sweet. We have one item there that is kind of special, that what people do. This one lady has a family Bible, and it was, after their parents died, it was passed around and nobody knew where it was. So she said when she got the Bible in her hand, she was going to donate it to the Eagle Point Museum. That way everybody in the family knew where it was. When they wanted to look into it, they knew where to go. Because when it was passed around from cousin to cousin, nobody knew where it was. So those are the kind of things we... So it's a safe spot for family history. That's really lovely. Let's see. What knowledge will people gain about Eagle Point when visiting the museum?  But we have so many pictures and we're trying to do a complete timeline.  It's overwhelming. Tell us more about this timeline. It sounds like a really fascinating project. It is. I mean, right now we have different subjects gathered in different places, military schools, Indian artifacts, baskets. And eventually, hopefully with the guardians help and the cities, we want to have an extension built on and then we would be able to have a timeline in history. And of course we will have to move some things around. But then it'll open up the doors for more articles because we've had so many people want to donate more and there's just not enough room. You're full? What I would say, one of the plans, what they want to do eventually is like walking through time because we have the next generation coming up so that if we had the extension you could add the next generation as it is now. So when you go in the door you can see the old and then you can walk. Exactly. So that's kind of the long term aim. I think it would be really neat to do that. And the objects that you have now would support this? Yeah. Oh, definitely. And then we could add some of the children's groups, FFA, Boy Scouts. There's a number of supportive groups in town that have helped out a lot. We could focus on them. It's their future too and it's their history also. So the beginning of the conversation, you mentioned that the guardians had received a grant to build a website. So you guys have a website now? Yes, we do. That's so exciting. It is. It really is. So you have a website? Well, right now there's a picture of the museum and there's different links to go to that involve the city and different historical societies in the area and we've gotten a lot of hits already. It was just amazing. And we want to be able to focus on different parts of the museum so if somebody can't come to the museum physically they can go on and see what we have there and showcase the different attributes of the museum. And this is the first grant that the guardians have received? Yes it is. Congratulations. Yes, thank you. So it sounds like with the website you're expanding, you have plans to build this extension someday in the future. It sounds like there's a lot of growth at the museum despite all the changes in the past but a lot of growth today. Where do you see the museum in the future? Bigger. Drawing in more people to see Eagle Point's history. Eagle Point is growing and we want to draw more people in and show them Eagle Point. Well, you know the future generations so you've got the next generation coming up because I'm probably at the last end. So you know you can see that and you get the current, like we have the old phones but now we can get in the more of the electronic part of it. That'd be fun. That'd be really fun to see. That would. So Helen you've been there since 1978. Sherry how long have you been with the Eagle Point Museum? I'd say 2009. Okay. What inspired you to get involved? Well actually Helen needed somebody else to help. Helen inspired you. Well, when we first started adding people, we had a gentleman that served with me and we worked every, and when he quit they brought people from the Harnish Information Center over to work the days that I was off every other week. So this is how they got involved. And I think it was about 2010, was it? So you just mentioned the Harnish Visitor Center. Is there a connection between the Eagle Point Museum and the Visitor Center? Well that's a connection. I volunteered down there on certain days of the month and they're open seven days a week now, four days with paid employees and three days with volunteers from the community. And they are only open from ten to four Monday, Tuesday and Wednesday and then the paid employees are from Thursday, Friday and Saturday from ten to six, isn't it? And is the Harnish Visitor Center also owned by the city? It is. So the city owns the Visitor Center and the museum. My folks donated the land years ago. Is that the livery stable you mentioned earlier? And so that's why the building is built like a barn. Oh, it all comes together. Speaking of the city owning the properties, how has the growth of Eagle Point changed the role of the museum, or even just played a role? Has it played a role in the museum? A lot of people come there and say, well I just moved here, they just want to find out what the history is and that's how they want to get a little more acquainted with where they're going to live or where they're moving to and they just want to find a little bit more about the weather, schools, hunting and fishing, sports. So it's grown quite a bit like two hundred when I was a kid and now it's about ten thousand. Objects? No. The population at Eagle Point, got it. So that makes it, you know, it expands into Eagle Point too. Do you have any events you'd like to talk about quickly? The Guardians the last two years in June put on two fundraising events, historical tours. The first year we focused on the brownhouses that are across the street, that they're just beautiful. We had over ninety people tour through and that was a good fundraiser and Bob Russell of the Butte Creek Mill opened his private collection at the top of the mill for people to see and they really enjoyed it and then last June we did another history tour of Down Main Street showing the older buildings and the first state bank which is closed but has been sold at auction, the new owner opened it up for us for that day so people could go in and imagine what it was like back in the day and we had thirty people come to that tour and music and ice cream and we're already planning next year's event. One of the events that we had was called the Vintage Fair which has really developed into quite a thing and when it was in the Eagle Point society, historical society, we started that in about 205 and it was our idea and we asked Bob, he had just bought the Bob Russell that owns the Butte Creek Mill and he was going to have an event and so we just combined them and then when the city took over then they couldn't participate because of public funds and so this is where the Guardian, they can participate but the city, they don't know what public funds cannot, you know, right, because you need insurance so people that are participating and we have insurance so that's what makes the, yeah, okay, so that's why the Guardians do things, do things, the city can't, you know, public people can't do so it makes it makes it work out great I think. Okay, it does. Do you have any other events that you do? Well, we just started last year having Christmas at the museum because Bob puts on a wonderful Christmas event, it is Mill, he has caroling and so we thought we'd tie in and we had a little bit of a spillover and we had it all decorated with nostalgic looking Christmas decorations and it was a lot of fun and people really enjoyed it so we're going to continue that this year. Wow, it sounds like a great event. It was fun. Time for one last question, Helen and Sherry, what is special about the Eagle Point Museum? Well we started it, for me it was, you know, to tell a history of our area for future generations we do have children tours that come through and we try to explain to them that if it weren't for these pioneers they wouldn't have the cell phones, you know, the rail cars and the transportation and so I said you've got to be very very grateful for your ancestors because you wouldn't be and for our veterans I think. They played a big part in this. I have to agree. We have a lot of fun with the kids that come in, they ask the most interesting questions. It's a great place. Well thank you. That's about it for today. I'd like to thank today's guests Helen Walgomot and Sherry Lawson and I'd like to invite all of you to stop by the Eagle Point Museum and enjoy Southern Oregon's rich history and see some truly amazing objects. Southern Oregon Historical Society's Downtown Medford Research Library is open Tuesday to Friday, it's noon to 4 p.m. and on 4 Saturdays from noon to 2 p.m. Also we have many amazing events out at Hanley Farm. With both of our websites for updated event information. The Southern Oregon History Show is sponsored by the Southern Oregon Historical Society and by Jackson County Library Services. Thanks to our sponsors, our volunteer crew and to RVTV. Join us next time for another episode of the Southern Oregon History Show. Thank you.


From theCUBE Studios in Palo Alto in Boston, connecting with thought leaders all around the world, this is a CUBE Conversation. Hello everyone, special CUBE Conversation. I'm John Furrier here in theCUBE. I'm not in the studio, I'm at home. We're sheltering in place. The studio quarantine crew is there. We've got a great guest here to break down, the analysis and the tech industry, Zece Parvala, who's the principal of ZK Research. Zece, great to check in with you for our check-in. Last time we chatted, you broke down the entire industry. Lot to talk about now. We had the Cisco earnings just came out and a lot of other great things are happening. Thanks for joining me. What's your take on what's going on? Yeah, thanks, John. It's been sort of a tumultuous last few months. I think one of the takeaways I had from Cisco's earnings actually was that it's not as bad as people think. I know if you read a lot of what's going on the media, we get everything from dooms day and the world's ending or whatever, but I think what Cisco's earnings showed and Cisco, I know they have a lot of enemies and a lot of competitors out there, but they're really still a bellwether for the industry and so everyone should rejoice in the fact that they actually had a pretty good quarter. I think what was telling about that was security was up, the services business was up, the margins were good and what that shows me is that there's still room for innovation. Customers are still buying things and they're willing to pay for things that actually helped drive their business forward and so Cisco's put a lot of energy into their services group to make sure the customers are able to adapt their technology and change their business. So from an overall market perspective, Cisco is, their quarters are shifted from almost everybody else's and so they're generally a leading indicator of where things are going. So I think the fact that they showed some strength, they guided up from where the street thought, I think that's a good thing for the entire industry and I think, I'm not saying we're out of this yet, but I think businesses are starting to spend money where they need to in order to put themselves in a position to come up strong after, well once we start going back to work, whoever knows what that'll be. I think the other sort of interesting pivot here is that I think the overall role the network has changed within companies, right? We've covered networking technologies a long time. It gets a little bit of interest sometimes from C level, certainly not as much as it should from CEOs and CIOs. A lot of people think of it as the plumbing and the pipes. I don't understand, it's a very complicated technology sometimes, but when you look at what's happened with digital transformation initiatives and now with COVID, we've got more people working at home, we're adopting cloud services, we're using video, we're connecting more things with IoT initiatives. So the overall value of the network has increased and I think that was also reflected in Cisco's numbers. I think this transition had started when you look at a lot of the building blocks and digital transformation, IoT, cloud, mobility, things like that, they're all network-centric in nature. And so for the first time in history, I think business leaders actually need to look at their network strategies because if that's without a sound network strategy, as we sort of come out of this and the companies that have a good one will be able to really step on the gas and do what they want with their business, the ones that don't, I think are gonna really struggle to survive because they're not gonna be able to do a lot of these advanced things. Yeah, great point. One of the things personal, the new Cisco has a new leadership, the new CEO has been in place for a while. Cloud-native is a positioning they're going after and with the COVID crisis, it really puts more pressure not to move with the network because it's a core staple of an organization. Yet the transformation journey is going to be accelerated. This gives Cisco, this is a lucky strike for Cisco because you're going to move packets around and the multi-cloud conversation comes in and the enablement of application development. All being tied to the network is what Cisco's been preparing on and this has kind of been a nuanced point that not everyone understands but coming out of COVID to have a growth strategy if you're not programming up and down the stack with DevOps and NetSecOps or whatever you want to call it, people working at home, a new perimeter has now emerged, that's everything. Yeah, everything is a perimeter. This is a tailwind for Cisco, your thoughts on that, your opinion. Oh yeah, the big time tailwind for Cisco. I think what's happened John, when you look at network evolution over the last five years, we can do much more with our network. That's come at a cost and that cost is complexity. So trying to tie all these things together, SD-WAN, SASC, Data Center, SDN, right? We've got Wi-Fi 6 coming, we've got 5G coming. So we've got all these great things that we're going to let our networks be faster than them before and run applications we could never run before, right? You look at some of the demos on 5G, we're able to wear untethered Wi-Fi virtual reality headsets, completely creating completely new shopping experiences, educational experiences, but you need a lot of bandwidth with that. But not only do you need bandwidth, I think the one thing that COVID has taught us is if you have any weakness in the network, anywhere, right? From the user's hand all the way to the cloud, that weak point gets big time. And so now you have to start thinking of your network, not in pieces of having a campus network, Wi-Fi network, data center network, and have a single network, right? And so Cisco's really one of the few companies, maybe the only company that can actually deliver that end-to-end network that starts in the company, extends to people's homes, goes out to the cloud. And what they've done masterfully under Chuck Robbins is they've been able to pile those things together to create a much simpler way of operating this complicated network. So you look at what they're doing with ACI and intent-based networking, what that is is you can think of it almost as a software overlay that masks the complexity of the network that's underneath it. Yeah, I've always been talking about Cisco over the past decade and a half. Got to move up the stack guys, you got to move up the stack. This has been, this is now their opportunity and with multi-cloud on the horizon or here, this is going to give Cisco a path. But I got to ask you, what is your take and advice to Cisco when you're out there talking to them, you're talking to the customers all the time and practitioners, you're the analyst. What do they need to do better? Because you can't just wish multi-cloud upon the marketplace, it's coming, but it's clearly not the use case yet. So there's a time lag between ACI and intent-based networking to true multi-cloud. What does Cisco do in the meantime? Yeah, well, I think what Cisco has to do is think about what they're doing with ACI and multi-cloud and actually help their customers implement it in pieces. And the description I've used is the path Cisco's on and the path customers are on actually in this world of you think if the end state is true hybrid multi-cloud, right? We have to get there in chip shots and not moonshots. And what I mean by that is if you were to say to a customer, this is your end state, right? The path to get there is so daunting. It's like a moonshot that paralyzes the customer. If you break this down into a set of chip shots, that gets much easier. So put the infrastructure in place to be able to just have the visibility across your cloud. Then maybe automate movement from private to public cloud. Then automate some of the processes that give you the most headaches. Then move to a bigger automation framework, right? So areas like security, network configuration, right? Things like that. Those are very difficult for customers to do manually. Those are the things they should be automating today. So what they want to do is almost take their intent-based network almost as a lighthouse to road to, a visionary state, and then help customers get there in pieces. Because if they try and rush them along too fast, I think they'll lose the customer because the complexity is too high. The other area they should really be focused on is continuing to mature the services business. I think that's something under Chuck Robbins that's night and day different than what it was. The services business to Cisco prior to Chuck was a lot of breakfix. Their tack is well-renowned as being a great tack. But now they've gotten more into pro services. They've gotten more into adoption services. And I think the more subscription they sell, what Cisco needs to really understand is that customers tend not to renew things they don't use, right? So making sure that the services group helps customers and use the things that they're paying for. And that'll pay dividends for them, multiple dividends for them down the road. I want to get the Silicon one on that opportunity to upsell and do a refresh because hardware refreshers are not going to be on the docket early on unless there's business value. So let's hold that for a second. Sean Chambers has been on theCUBE recently in his new role as a coach and investor. And he said to us on theCUBE, transitions versus transformation. Cisco and the big companies are expected to win the transitions. But now with COVID coming out of this, there's real transformation. So you got to look at things like collaboration. Hey guys, get it better. This is not just win the enterprise with the better WebEx.  Teams is out there.  So where is their transition wins and where's their transformational opportunity in Europe? Well, I think the entire company is kind of going through transformations, right? Even on the network side. So it's like, the industry's been calling for Cisco to get commoditized for years, right? And if you look, their product gross margins are actually the strongest they've been in a decade. So I remember when I fell below 60%, everybody thought the world was falling. This quarter, I think it was a little over 65 on the product side. And so my belief is nothing's really a commodity if you can drive innovation. And that's what Cisco's been doing. So from a transition standpoint, I think they've done a lot of that. They've transitioned the company to software and services. They've transitioned the company more to a current model. They've actually decoupled software from the hardware so customers can buy differently. And you brought up the fact that we may not have a hardware refresh, but that's okay. As long as they keep the software and new cycles going. Where the transformations has to come is completely changed the dynamics of how something works. And so within 10 base networking, you think of the old way that a network engineer used to work, like the way I used to work when I was an engineer, a lot of hunting and pecking at a CLI, doing a lot of cutting and pasting and using homegrown tools. That doesn't scale anymore. My research shows that on average, it takes companies about four months to implement a change network-wide, far too slow for digital companies, right? What Cisco's done is they've accelerated that by letting customers automate more things. And so for the Cisco, the transformation comes in allowing customers to do new things. I think you're right in the collaboration side, there's more work to do. Nobody's got a bigger collaboration portfolio than Cisco. They got endpoints. They got room systems, right? They've got software, they've got cloud on-prem, but they got to take that and tie it together. I think the other area that Cisco needs to improve is they've got a lot of management tools that look at different things. They have FD, ACI manager, and a whole bunch of different security consoles. In fact, I poke fun at them sometimes and said that the market leader in single panes of glass because they have more than anybody. Right? I think eventually they gotta be able to tie that information together and help customers understand what it means from a cross-domain perspective because they still build their products wireless campus data center. But as I mentioned before, we just have one network. And so Cisco can aggregate this data up, apply machine learning to it and help customers what that means. They see insight across the entire network. That would really be powerful because they've got the footprint. Now they just have to be able to deliver the machine learning-based insights to help customers understand what that data means. And they have a unique opportunity in the short-term. No one's going to be kicking Cisco out anytime soon. No, I think they're in closure. There is safety in using the big companies. I think what Cisco is able to bring is a level of financial stability that other companies may not have. And so they can weather the storm for a long time. So it's easy to say going to Cisco is the safe bet it has been for a long time, but I think it's also the smart bet. I think they're able to continue to invest in things where maybe smaller companies won't be able to. Yeah, my question on Cisco, a big fan of their strategy have been vocal about that for a while. My question on Cisco, I'm going to be critical, is to say how fast can you get that development going? Show the software value in market. Show customers a growth trajectory that they can execute on, taking advantage of the network policy intelligence. If they could do that, they're going to be in good shape. You agree? Yeah, I think one of their challenges though is the transformation of their customer base too. And that's where the work Suzy Weesman doing on the DevNet team is so important. Like if they were to shift their whole strategy over to developer focused software today, I think that would largely put them in a position of trouble because the engineers that work with the stuff and the resellers that work with the stuff aren't, they don't really have the skill sets to take advantage of that, right? So last year Suzy, we, she really talked a lot about the growth of DevNet. This year they came out with, in Barcelona this year, they came out with a bunch of certifications for DevNet. Now they're actually coming out with a number of partner certifications as well. So the resellers can get certified. But I think it's important that they continue to push their engineer base into gaining these new skills. I'll give you an interesting data point for my research and that's that only about a quarter of network engineers has ever made an API call, right? And so you look at all Cisco's new year, it's all API driven.  The other way to do it is you do a show command in the CLI and you screen scrape and you take a visual basic script that you parse it, you know, and you get it that way, right? So the API methods, using those is a lot easier. And so I think Cisco's got a good strategy with DevNet, they've grown that base a lot. It's still relatively small, you know, it's under a million people. When you think of the overall size of the Cisco customer user base, that's where they got to put some effort, right? More and more effort into driving adoption to DevNet. Well, I think you're smart on that. I think your research, and they must be listening to you because they haven't really tried to jam that down their throats. They've been very humble about it. And I think a million is a pretty damn good number, I think, for the Cisco. Again, to your point, they're bringing people into the water, the low end first before you go to the deep end. So swim with the bubble, if you will. Well, I think what worked with DevNet, what they did was they assumed the engineer had no knowledge of software. Because I think at first, when they put a lot of the programs in place, they assumed people would have some knowledge of how to code, right? And I also think the industry did them a bit of a disservice. We used to, there was a lot of stuff written in the media how every network engineer needs to become a software developer. Well, they don't have to, some are going to become software developers, but they at least have to become software power users, right? So do your job through software, but you don't have to be a developer. And that's where DevNet really, when it really matured, is that diverge down two paths. Developer, engineer, here's your common software skills, and then you break down as a specialist after that. And so they've actually helped with the maturity of that. They've changed their certification programs to reflect that. And I think DevNet really is a big key. And if they can transition that engineer base, then it helps the adoption of the new technology. Zeze, I want to get your final thoughts on this segment on multi-cloud. Obviously, it would be a really great win for it creates some interoperability, especially with the network intelligence. Cisco could bring to the table and others. You got some startups out there like AVA Tricks and others and VMware with NSX, trying to get the, where the security fabric, a lot of action going on with multi-cloud and networking. Your thoughts, what is your research value? What's going to transpire? How do you see that market playing out? You know, my research shows that a little 80% of companies prior to COVID had multi-cloud on the roadmap. And I'm assuming that's gone up. I haven't actually done a survey since then. I think it's funny, COVID exposed a lot of things from a lot of vendors, right? And I think one of the things it did is it showed cracks in the cloud. You look at some of the data and how many outages Microsoft had, Google had some screens. AWS has held up pretty well under the strain of a lot of the higher utilization from COVID, but they've been building a lot of capacity into theirs as well. So I think from a customer perspective, it makes sense. You don't want to put all your eggs in one basket. Some cloud providers are stronger in some regions. They each have different, their own different cloud platforms, the private cloud platforms. And the problem is, is if you decide to go multi-cloud, you can't use the cloud provider's tools, right? So if I use an AWS load balancer, that works great in AWS, but it's not going to help me with Azure or GCP. Similarly, if I use GCP tools, I can't extend that out to Azure. So something needs to connect those and be able to tie security and policy. And that's where multi-cloud comes from. And you're right, there's some good startups there. I think the difference with Cisco this time versus the SDN world was when SDNs came about, I think Cisco didn't want that to happen. And I think they actually actively worked against SDN. And I've talked to Chuck Robbins about that. He said, you'll never ever see Cisco do that again. If something's good for the customers, they want to lead that transition. So Cisco's been very active in multi-cloud. And given they've got the install base already, I do think they will help bring this along, but there are some good startups in it. Yeah, it's interesting. SDN really wasn't ready for prime time, even when VMware bought Nacera. Hey, wait a minute, it was still there. Didn't have a lot of revenue. It had neutral, but I mean, they made a good deal. VMware claims that's the saves NSX was saved by SDN. Some people say it was completely rewritten. Final thoughts on outlook that you see coming out of COVID. Obviously, it's been well reported. We've been reporting the VPNs have been under provision. That was a blind spot, a lot of blind spots and disruption that wasn't forecasted in the classic sense. There was no hurricane, there was no flood. It was a COVID, invisible disruption. Yeah, and there's no hand-pasted either, right? Like even with when you think of what happened with the floods in New York in 9-11, people knew that they'd eventually go back and so business continuity and disaster recovery was a temporary thing. Can I set up a data center to work for a couple of months so I can go back to New York? That's not the case with COVID. We're trying to manage for an undefined endpoint which is extremely difficult from an IT perspective. I do think that COVID again has highlighted the value of the network. I think we'll see a lot of transition from VPN to SDN. I think that's certainly good. I think the rise in video will also cause a Wi-Fi upgrade cycle where people get back to the office and I think you'll see a lot of focus on programmability and agility because I don't believe we're gonna see everybody return to the office with one big bang, John. I think what we're more likely to see is the future of work to be almost like when you and I were in college. We do a bunch of stuff at home. We go to the campus when we have classes and when we wanna meet people. Similarly, we'll go to work when we have meetings and then in between meetings, we'll go find an open place to work but in general, we'll do a lot more work from home. In fact, my research shows 93% of the business leaders I interviewed said they expect to see at least a 30% increase in work from home post COVID, right? So we're gonna have a lot more people doing that but it's not gonna be everyone working from home and everybody working in the office. It's gonna be a hybrid of the two people are gonna come and go and that drives the need for agility and today's networks really aren't that agile. And so I do think- And back to school. I wanna go back to college. We do Thursday happy hours too. I mean, have the whole week. I'll meet you there. I'll meet you at the studio. Based up, based up. Final point, you mentioned SD-WAN. I was talking with Dave Vellante and Stu Miniman just last week and I said, you know, this SD-WAN today is not your grandfather's SDN. Meaning SD-WAN has changed a lot. It's basically the internet now. So what's the modern update definition of SD-WAN?  What is it now? What's the same name? But it's, you know, what is it? What's coming in- It can happen. It can happen in maturity of the technology. If you look at the adoption of anything, right? The first wave of stuff is to make the new stuff look like the old stuff. So when we put VoIP in, we made it look a lot like TDM. When we had cloud, we lifted and shifted and we didn't really change our apps. And then we eventually get smart and think, what can I do with the new thing that I can't do with the old thing? And so a lot of early SD-WAN deployments were simply just replacements for MPLS and they were put into save a bit of money. But now companies are getting smarter and they're thinking about, what can I do with my SD-WAN that I couldn't do before? So there's a lot more tighter integration security. I think as companies put SD-WAN in and think about what the WAN is today, John. It used to be corporate offices and data centers. Today it's everybody's house, right? And so being able to extend your WAN out to single people, out to planes, trains and automobiles, if you remember that movie. Those are all getting connected as well. People's backpacks, fan kiosks, those are all becoming WAN endpoints, right? So that's where you need to embed more security in the network. And so I think that's a transition we're seeing in the SD-WAN and I think that the technology is matured to the point where it's getting easier to deploy, faster to deploy and you're right, we can use the internet for transport in some cases. Some will still keep, there'll still be a lot of MPLS out there. But I do think we wind up in this hybrid world, but clearly the time has never been better for SD-WAN. And I think we'll see a huge growth curve for that because it's the only way to extend the WAN to people's homes, the things, the cars and really anything that's connected. You know, that's such a great point. And I think this is a real nuance in the industry. It's a whole nother rebirth of the category because the aperture is wider, you got policy, you got reliability, you got security built in. This is key to the HSOV key. The whole concept of AI ops becomes real because we're collecting data and we're able to use AI to automate operations. So as we call it SD-WAN 2.0, that's what you got to do. We got to make an acronym out of this. Come on, we can't just call it SD-WAN. It is SD-WAN 2.0 because it's the second wave of it we're actually thinking about how to transform our company. So the John Chambers Court of Transition versus Transformation is apropos because like I said, a lot of the waves that Cisco went through early on was we transitioned the market and then we transformed, right? And so SD-WAN so far has been transitional, moving away from the old thing, but now it's time to transform the way our entire network operates. There's great insight. Always a pleasure to talk to you. You've got the straight scoop and signal right there from all the noise in the industry, now more than ever, people are going to be focused on critical projects. So thanks for your insight. ZK, research, great stuff, and we'll keep calling you in. Great guests, thank you for coming on. Thanks John, always a pleasure. Okay, keep conversation here remote. We're doing our part either at home in the studio, quarantine in. This is theCUBE virtual. Virtualization has come to theCUBE. We'll do whatever it takes to get the content out there. Zece, thanks so much for coming on. Appreciate it. Thanks for watching. I'm John Furrier.


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