Good morning, I'm Cindy Kang, Associate Curator here at the Barnes Foundation and I'm delighted to welcome you to today's program which kicks off our new exhibition Water, Wind, Breath Southwest Native Art and Community. It opens today and it will be on view in our Roberts Gallery through May 15th. Now part of the important groundwork for this exhibition has been to connect with the Indigenous communities in which the Native works in the Barnes collection were created. And this show has served as a catalyst to discuss inclusion of our local Indigenous peoples, the Lenape, and land acknowledgement as a way to understand and honor the history of the Lenape on this land and our place within that history. So I'd like to read our land acknowledgement statement which you will find on the wall of the exhibition and in the future in a permanent location here at the Barnes. The Barnes Foundation is situated in Lenapeho King, the ancestral homeland of the Lenape people. We acknowledge and honor their enduring relationship to this land and commit to serving as responsible stewards of it, guided by their knowledge and culture. All Lenape people, those still in the region and those driven from it by European and American colonizers, are welcome back to this piece of their homeland and we invite all people to join us with the Lenape and other Indigenous peoples to build a more inclusive and equitable learning space for present and future generations. Now, over the past few years, I've had the pleasure of working with the Exhibition Co-Curators, Lucy Fowler-Williams, who is Associate Curator-in-Charge, and Jeremy Asablos, Keeper of American Collections at the Penn Museum of Archaeology and Anthropology, and Tony Chavarria, Curator of Ethnology at the Museum of Indian Arts and Culture in Santa Fe. I've been stewarding this project at the Barnes and we are so delighted to present it as the premier exhibition of the Barnes Foundation's centennial year. So today you'll be hearing from Tony, Lucy, and a very special guest, the renowned Pueblo sculptor Roxanne Swenzel, who made new work that is included in the show and I will let Lucy introduce her more properly later. But before I hand things over to Lucy and Tony, I wanted to say a few words about how this exhibition came to be and give you a very brief sense of its structure. So the Barnes, while best known for its collection of Impressionists, Post-Impressionists, and Modernist European Painting, is also home to a very rich collection of Southwest Native art, including Pueblo and Abba Ho Pottery, Textiles, and Jewelry. And to highlight this important part of the collection, we invited Lucy and Tony to develop this exhibition featuring approximately 100 works of historic and contemporary Southwest Native art. And they've created a project that emphasizes how these works are central to the health and well-being of the communities in which they were made. Now, as you'll see on the following slides, the exhibition is divided into five sections that integrate the historic and contemporary works to show that these arts are living traditions. We start with Pueblo Pottery, which explores the spiritual aspects of clay as well as the history of Spanish colonization and move on to Navajo weaving, which similarly emphasizes the spiritual nature of this practice as well as the effects of American colonization. Then Southwest Native Jewelry, which explores the meaning of silver and turquoise and Navajo pieces and shell and stone in public samples. Dr. Barnes' journeys to the Southwest in the early 1930s, where he was deeply moved by a Pueblo winter fear dance that he attended. And finally, the dance itself as a communal practice of renewal that continues to reverberate through the works of contemporary Native artists today. So the exhibition is accompanied by a fully illustrated 224 page catalog published by the Barnes Foundation in association with Yale University Press, which also serves as the collection catalog for the Barnes and Southwest Native art collection comprising 239 pieces. And this publication is a major contribution to the field, offering the first in-depth scholarly examination. And it combines the most current anthropological practice and technical analysis with the cultural expertise and lived experiences of Native scholars, specialists, and artists. So it really is unique and special among our collection catalogs. So now please welcome Lucy to introduce Tony and Roxanne. She will be followed by a presentation from Tony and then one from Roxanne. And then the three of them will have a conversation and there will be time at the end of the program for questions. So please do type them in the chat. Thank you. Good morning. Thank you, Cindy, so much. Good morning, everyone. And thank you for joining our program this morning here at the Barnes Foundation. My name is Lucy Fowler-Williams and as co-curator of the exhibition Water, Wind, Breath Southwest Native Art in Community. It's my truly great honor to introduce today's program, hosting two special guests from Santa Clara Pueblo in New Mexico. First, my colleague and co-curator, Tony Chavarria, will begin our program and share an introduction to his community of Santa Clara. Tony is the curator of ethnology at the Museum of Indian Arts and Culture in Santa Fe. We are also joined today. I'm so excited to share this with you by Roxanne Swencel. And Roxanne is an internationally recognized ceramic artist and she has created a new piece for our exhibition. Her work is in collections and museums around the world. She has exhibited at many places, including the White House in Washington, D.C., and she's won numerous awards. She created her own gallery near her home just north of Santa Fe. And her art addresses personal concerns and social commentary around the care of self and family and cultural heritage and the earth. In addition to her work in clay and bronze, Roxanne is president of the Santa Clara Pueblo based nonprofit called the Flowering Tree Permaculture Institute, which she co-founded 35 years ago in 1987. The organization is focused on teaching, sustainable living, and agriculture. Now I'm really excited to turn it over now to Tony. Thank you. Good morning, everyone. I would like to just before we start to thank Lucy and Cindy and staff of the Florence Foundation. And again, also very special thanks to Roxanne for being here today. So this is a matter of intro. I just thought I would share basically like the place and where we come from and where the material exhibition comes from and how that can inform the work set of the juice. So the lens that we come from and what is now called the American Southwest are very dry. It's a high desert environment unlike the aerial view of flying into Philadelphia where there's so much water and there's so much water that's even in your air. Whereas in New Mexico, even at this time of the year, when it can be still dry, even during the winter, that humidity levels of 9%, 8%, 6% aren't unusual. And it's a place of like canyon lands, forests, valleys, and where water again is a precious commodity. And it's been something that has been held special and sacred for people who have lived there for millennia. And when moisture does occur, sometimes it's in very, very sporadic places and very short in length. And it can also be seen from very far distances. Sometimes the moisture will evaporate before it hits the ground. So this rain is called Berga where it evaporates. And oftentimes it will trail behind the cloud and this is referred to as this type of rain and the zoom that's seen for this is going to be seen in the types of sashes that are worn on dancers. We have an example that's also in the exhibition. And then in the valleys, there are down by the rivers where there's enough water, you get the false case of cottonwoods, some elms, and where the field lands occur. And then through the change of the seasons, you can note what season it is by the types of colors that are around. And this is when it's starting to change in the fall to a golden color on the cottonwood trees. And then there are mesa tops, plateaus or such that mark historic and sacred events to Pueblo people and remain very special and honored to this day. For example, Black Mesa near San Aldefonso and Santa Clara Pueblos. Life, you know, seizes its chance in the region. And again, it will take advantage of the short range of the moisture and then to bloom and try and reproduce in the shortened times it has. And the creatures of this land too will often, you know, are adapted to not using much water. And sometimes you are blessed by a visit from one of them, including this road runner here that can fly a little bit and largely runs around the ground and eats many other animals as well. This one was part of the family that was breaking up snails and then eating the inside. They're blessed with incredible vistas and that reflect both the cosmology and life ways of the people there. And these vistas can be reflected in the work that is produced. For example, here in an outdoor pottery firing, you can see a bowl that has a little piece taken out of the rim on the upper right there. And then the dances that occur throughout the year that have been postponed because of the pandemic that people long for. And so when these dances are done, whether they are done on ceremonial feast days, at art markets, at people's houses, every time this occurs, it is a celebration of the endurance and resilience of a long-lived culture that continues to continue to this day. And then a culture that also is adapted to other outside influences. And for example, this is a dance that is generally done at Santa Clara Blvd on Christmas Day. This is a way to the past to continue to do traditional activities and inwardly by outwardly honoring a saint or a holiday. And so people there to live in the here and now, they transverse cultures and adapt to things. And they indigenize other aspects, whether it's pop culture, whether it's other outside influences and forces, whether it can be a Star Wars themed Native wedding, and other activities, even such as graduations and baptisms. And so they continue this practices today so that they can continue for the future and for sort of an inspiration and to seek balance. As mentioned for the exhibit, it's really part of the material that is being produced. It is for a better life just to, as part of well-being and even though these dances, the practice of making art, that is, these are all parts of that. And so I'll stop sharing now and I will turn it over to Roxanne to begin her presentation. Hello. Can everybody hear me? I hope so. I'm Roxanne Swenzo on the Pablo of Santa Clara Pablo and I'm honored to be here today. All right. We all exist here and are here today in all of our lives because our ancestors figured out how to survive. It's amazing that there are people all over this earth and it's because our ancestors figured out how to survive in the places that they were. Some of my ancestors came from the Mesa Verde area. They became the Pueblo peoples of today. And I come from the tribe of Cop or Wenge, the last of the town of people. And I'm honored and happy to be here today to share with you some of my story. We could go to the next picture. As I look through ancient beads that I sometimes find in the hills dropped by the old ones. It's like looking through a window into the past. My imagination writes novels of what life must have been like for them. My closest connections come through my mother and my grandmother. As you can see in the next picture, my grandmother here is showing my mother how to win a wheat the old way. I come from a strong lineage of Pueblo women. Every one of them is a force demanding respect. My grandmother grew up in the old ways. She had many children and pulled them around her like a queen bee in a hive. As I said before, she did things the old way. My mother second to the eldest of nine children was fiercely beautiful and terrifying to me. She taught me how to see. She taught me how to see what you can see with your eyes. As a child during the depression, she talked about being so hungry she ate grass after watching horses eating. She survived and went on to earn a PhD in American studies alongside a degree in architecture and humanities. She questioned the logic of the American dream pitting it against the strength of Pueblo community versus individualism. She was able to articulate these differences having stirred in both worlds. Next slide. During many hardships, the Pueblos held together because of their strength as communities. Traditional Pueblo families are not just nuclear families but extends beyond the great grandparents, uncles, aunties into the past ancestors that watch over us. This piece I made for the Santa Fe Civic Center and it is a statement on community in the point of view of Pueblo people. And go on to the next picture. We can see this community if looking at corn. I was taught that the corn mothers have been teaching us about how to behave. They show us how to share space by how each kernel is unique but fits into the whole beauty of the corn. They show us how to care for each other by the way they feed us and have the ability to carry on life through their seed. They are our grandmothers and part of our family. Next slide. We could also see this community understanding in the making of a basket. If each of us is like a strand in the basket, ourselves, we are very weak but together we become strong and possibly very beautiful in our interactions with each other. And in the next picture. Pueblo people are originally a pattern literate people instead of an object literate one. In other words, we didn't focus so much on the individual or objects but more on the interactions and energies that flow between things. The movement of the universe is important to understand and align with in order to be happy and do well in life. These interpretations of energy patterns can be seen in our designs on our pottery, our weavings, our architecture and in our dances. Next slide. The songs and dance movements are all symbolic of these energy patterns. Water, wind, breath or koa ha also speaks about life being about the energies that flow through us. This is a rain dance or a gathering of energies for the sake of continuing life within and around us. Go ahead. Staying rooted to our mother, the earth is a way to remember who we are as children of this earth. She takes good care of us if we remember we are of her. And as you can see in the next slide, staying close for me has been continuing my ancestors farming practices, building practices with Adobe as my people have done for thousands of years and of course creating my expressions in clay. Next. In creating sculptures from her, she has provided me a language bigger than words for expressing my experiences through. Next. In my journey to understand myself and where I belong, I have learned a great deal about where I come from and how my ancestors figured out how to live here in the Southwest US for thousands of years. It's been a journey of remembering. In 1987 I helped co-found a nonprofit called Flowering Tree Permaculture Institute. We study the sustainable practices of our ancestors applying what we can to our communities today for a healthier future. Next. One of our projects has been the Pueblo Food Experience. By eating our pre-contact foods, we found that our health improved immensely while helping to keep our cultural practices alive through farming our original crops, learning to prepare the foods in old ways and helping to keep pottery alive and understanding the meaning behind it all. A spiritual connection to our ancestors and to place is the unseen result of these actions. Next. Remembering that we are not separate individuals, but the result of energies moving and interacting with each other is important. This cosa or Pueblo clown is making rope. He is reminding us that one strand alone is weak, but the interconnection between two will create a strong rope. Interestingly, a rope in a rope, in a rope, each strand is twisted in the opposite direction of the other. The tension of the strands going in different directions create the bond that holds them together. The energies teach us that differences are our strengths if we use them to bond together instead of to fight, as with the opposites of a man and a woman creating life with their bonds. Next. In this piece I made called Mud Woman. I am depicting the earth mother holding all her babies, us in different colored clays showing how we all are uniquely different, but still come from our mother earth. It's a reminder to treat each other with care and respect. We are all children of this creation. The quality of our relationships will determine the strength and health of our life and the life of our future generations. Next. With all this in mind, I created Strong Heart, a big dog kitty for the barn's show as my statement on our connection to the earth. She touches the earth with one hand and her heart with the other, making the tie conscious. Having a life is not just about the breath that flows through us, but in a manner in which we love. Our relationship to her, the earth, teaches us to have relationships to each other as humans, plants, animals, how to care for each other like our mother earth cares for us by feeding and nurturing each other, how to shelter and hold each other as our earth mother holds and shelters us, how to find joy and beauty by sharing ourselves with each other as she shares her beauty with us, and how to find strength through the knowledge that we are connected to all that is. In this way, we feel loved and we can give up. So thank you. Madhya Rakhsan, that was just wonderful. Oh my gosh, that was incredible. We just so greatly appreciate your time and energy and thoughtful presentation. That was a wonderful overview. So I think we have prepared a number of questions. I think you answered some of them in your beautiful presentation. But why don't we begin by having you tell us a little bit about your process and perhaps tell us about more about the piece that you made and your materials and tools and how you actually went about it. So creating her for our show and I know as well that it was very important for you to make a new piece for this exhibition. So perhaps you could tell us about your process and then help us know why was it important for you to make create her a new work for the show. Thank you, Lucy. Yes, thank you. Let's see, I started sculpting when I was about three years old because my mother, my grandmother and so on were all potters. And so I learned how to coil and pinch, make pots the old way basically. And so that's how I make my pieces was is by coiling and pinching the clay. I, I do use all kinds of clays now. I've dug a lot of my own clays, but I also buy commercial clays. And my reasoning for that is all clays come from Mother Earth somewhere. And so it's the manner in the respect for for that earth that that counts.  So I coil and and pinch my pieces so they're hollow inside. I do fire in an electric kiln so that I can take, take them up very slowly and be able to cool them down very slowly because they are complicated pots. So I wanted to create a new piece for for this show because it was about Pueblo people and because the title Water, Wind, Breath is also a quote from my mother who spoke eloquently of what life is the the essence of what what it means to have life. And that movement that flow between the wind, the water movements is what makes life happen. And when you know you when you breathe in that you're taking in life you're taking in life and and energies from everywhere that you are right now. And when you release that breath you're giving so it's a reciprocal exchange constantly to have life. And that consciousness is important in order to remember how to live well you take and you also give. And that's part of the hope or how the wind, water, breath message and and you know we've been all you know, living through this pandemic time. And when I was asked about this barn show. I was feeling a great need and still do have this intense need to to get this information out to people how to live well. And in that concept from my Pueblo mindset of what I was taught. What I wanted to share with the world was a real basic basic need for us to reconnect with the Mother Earth because that disconnect has gotten us into the trouble we're in. I think and that the reconnecting of ourselves with where we're from all of us are indigenous to this earth somewhere. And that reconnection makes us strong again makes us like a strong basket again the connections are what matters. And so I wanted to make a piece that showed that again to to help people feel that feeling of being connected and what it does to you when you stop for a minute and stop running around crazy and sit with where you're from and feel that so that's where the piece came from. Thank you. It's really beautiful. And tell me Roxanne tell us did the peace change as you were making it you know from perhaps your original vision or your early ideas and how does that process work you know perhaps not in this example you could bring forward in a different example but you know many many Pueblo artists talk about the clay. Taking over and sort of you know having a life of its own in a way. So how did the process of this this piece go for you in that way. I also I also agree that the clay leads you you're in in relationship connection again is important you're allowing yourself to be the hands of the clay the medium and not only the clay but the message that's trying to come through. So as I said before I think that that need to tell the world that that our connection to the earth is important again. Isn't necessarily mine. It was given to me to put through the clay. But it's that message is that energy that's coming through that saying listen listen and I decided to listen to put it into the clay and always when I'm making a piece I get a kick out of it because I don't draw sketches I don't you know do free whatever I go well. Let's see the clay can hold up physically this way or that way you know technically I have to work with what the clay can do. So I made her kneeling because she also needed to be you know close to the ground but not laying on the ground because I wanted that heart presence to really be showing. And but always when I'm making a piece you know there's a feeling of like I wonder what it's going to show me and and as she was coming through. I was I was struck by you know I had that concept vaguely of going oh yeah okay she'll be doing this but when it started to come out in real form. I have to say I started to cry because it also was reminding me that I needed to do this too and it got to me it was this moment of like oh my goodness look at. She's she's doing it she's showing us how to do this and so it's very it's magical for me. That's wonderful. Tony do you want to ask a question or lead this in a in a direction. Yeah Roxanne. I just wanted to ask to on the figure that there are some some hints of red and people are asking me to us and it's kind of like sparkly. So I was wondering is that a my case just slipped there. There's my case is in the dirt that she's she's touching and so there is some sparkly my case is on her. Maybe might be showing up more on the red on her dress. And another thing I wanted to ask is that you are known for you know you're the figures that you make that they're very detailed and that they're very well formed. Especially for example like you know, like a hands and particularly the feet and you know something which can be like very hard to do. And so how did you learn to like to do like, basically like especially like feet and toes so well. Thanks Tony. I think because of the manner in which I began to sculpt is is the answer to that because I was a child very very young and even though I was being taught how to make a pot. You know I'm three years old what I really want to do is sculpt my dog so you know you're like rolling the coil and making. My dog and that was the first sculpture I made, and then I realized that I could do a lot with this material. And I had a pretty severe speech impediment as a child so I was not the I wasn't able to pronounce in words that could be understood by my parents so it was very frustrating. You know I wanted to tell them things and I was frustrated with words. So I took this clay and I started to create scenes out of it that. Then I would hand those little scenes of, for instance, when I first started school, it was really hard for me in school in public school because I couldn't speak and it was difficult for me to learn that way and so I made a little girl crying at a school desk and then I took it to my mom and gave it to her and then she could understand what was going on with me. So it's an expression and so the more I could technically get good at expressing myself through this clay medium in these little figures, the better communication I had available to me. So hands and feet, as you can see, hands and feet are very expressive things and you know the movement of a head or the wiggle of toes, they give off a message and it's a human language. We all understand those gestures, we all know what a smile feels like, we all know what a frown, we all know what a pain looks like. So it's a language that's beyond one culture, it's actually a human language. So I think I got very good at hands and feet just because of that and they also tend to be enlarged and I think that's also because of the expression quality of it being a communication tool. And yes, I've always kind of like thought of like when your work that they have what I call Roxanne proportions. You know that they do have like, you know, just like some, they're not like in the perfect proportions, but they still work and they still read, you know, as you know people and it's very well. And it's something that you often often don't necessarily notice sometimes at first is because that you're taken in by the overall figure and you know what it's trying to say. So that then it's not until later you realize, oh yeah, like the hands and feet are a little, little enlarged. That's just when you're just kind of looking at it more from like a technical point but just for you know overall that they always have these like to get these proportions that you could see oh that's a that's Roxanne that's Roxanne's piece. And you know and then it has this you know this other meaning and effect, you know, from that. Thank you, Tony. Thank you, Lucy. Roxanne about the surface her the surface of her. Do you do any painting at all on that the color is the color. Yeah, could you just walk us through that because it when you're in person in the gallery and you're taking that in. I can't imagine how you how you created that that you know her skin tones that are varied. Etc. So could you tell us a little more about that. So I when I coil and pinch them, and then I burnish them with a knife and and stones like sometimes in the face area stones polishing stones are the best tool to use. So the shinier I can make the skin, for instance, the more glow it will have the more rough it will will have a more darker texture to it. And what I tend to do then is rub iron oxide, it's just rust into the clay after I fire it once. And it'll give a very nice. I think a good skin tone. Also the in like, for instance, this my piece for the show, good strong heart has a paint put on for her dress so I actually painted the colors on her with acrylic paint literally. Her hair is a black iron oxide. And so it gives this nice, nice subtle subtlety about her. And it was important that she was touching earth, wherever she was so I made a stand for her that is has real dirt on it so that she's always touching the earth. And that was a really nice addition. We were, I was a little surprised to see that when it arrived and it really works. It's just spectacular. I wanted to ask you as well, Roxanne, if you could sort of situate us as to your space right now. I know that you have your tower gallery and Paul hockey right near your home. But can you just sort of describe where you're situated now where your studio is in connection to your home. As you're looking out that window there, we can see the beautiful Latia ceiling above you. And I believe that you made your home so could you just tell us a little bit more about your living space and all that that entails. So I grew up, not only playing with clay, but I was also farming and also building with Adobe, our family is known for building with with mud. So I continued that and at the age of 23 I built myself in Adobe solar house here at Santa Clara Pablo. And I still live in my house to this day where I'm sitting right now is actually the nonprofits seed bank office, which I built it's Adobe we has Latia ceilings out of an old fence we took down. It's all made out of Adobe so you can see the mud plaster behind me you can see a pattern in Adobe itself. Everything I make the doors I make. So this is a seed bank, one of our seed banks, and it has good internet connection so I'm using it to do this is some presentation. I also help build and finish the tower gallery in Milwaukee Pablo, and it's all out of Adobe. Beautiful structure if you're ever in this area, it's a magnificent building. So we continue to build things out of Adobe we just finished an Adobe greenhouse that we're excited to start planting in soon. So, yeah, that's where I am. Can you tell us a little bit about the plants and the seed bank. So what, what kind of seeds and what are you planting to give people a sense of that. And then also, who is doing all the watering, etc. The seeds are are I I've been saving seeds of our ancestors meaning our original crop seeds such as the corn beans squash, things like that, that are from this area from the problems of this region. And the reason for that is that they are drought tolerant and are adapted to the Southwest. Better than other species. So, I've been trying to keep those alive for a long time and share them also with the community other farmers that are interested in growing these crops out in this particular seed bank. We have, let's see if I can show you a little bit. I'm going to show you this board. This kind of shows some of the seed packet covers that we have here. So we like to make everything a little artistic so even in the seed packets it can be an opportunity to be creative and make beautiful packets of seeds. Keep the seeds very cold so they're all locked down right now in a very cold room. And I don't have an extension court to show you it, but they are there. Thank you so much. Okay, so I think that we need to transition probably to our Q&A so that the audience could ask you some questions. And I think that Cindy, perhaps we give it back to you to handle that. Hi, I mean all four of us can be on the screen, I think. But yeah, we have so many questions from the audience for you Roxanne and Lucy and Tony, because this has been such a fascinating and amazing presentation and conversation. I'll just kind of go in order. And I hope we can get to all the questions but we might not and I apologize if we run out of time. Marcy asks Roxanne, well she says your work is remarkable and your words are as well. Have you written any of this in a book with your work or with other work? Experience Book has a number of essays in it that are, it's not just a recipe book, it is also a story about Pueblo people. There's some writings by some other Pueblo members here. So it's a good read, not just for recipes but just to have some more information. And I also try to do a lot of teaching. So we teach here at Flaringtree and so we share some of this stuff with our students. Thank you. Ashley asks a question that I will pass to Lucy. Given the long history of an ethical collection methods, I would be curious to know how Dr. Barnes and the museum acquired these pieces. And Lucy has done a lot of research on this and I can perhaps also add at the end but Lucy please go ahead. Sure. Yes, thank you Ashley for that question. Dr. Barnes went to the Southwest first in the winter of 1929 and 30 and over just a two year period he purchased collections from dealers and shops there in New Mexico and also in Arizona. And he traveled to reservations and he attended Pueblo dances, went to the Navajo Reservation as well as Hopi. So he was purchasing from dealers and we have all of his letters in the archive. And you know he wasn't out in the Southwest that entire time when he was here in Marion, those dealers were corresponding with him and sending possibilities to him in Marion that he would look over and purchase if he was interested and then he would return others that he was not interested in. So I hope that answers your question. For Roxanne, Susan asks. Well she says I love thank you I've loved your work since I first saw clowns climbing out of the earth at the Herd Museum over three decades ago. She asked how do you fire and assemble that ginormous mother earth sculpture. The piece at the Denver Art Museum mud woman is made out of just mud and straw so I did not have to fire her. Denver Art Museum allowed me to go there for nine months at intervals at a time and slowly build her in place so she's actually built on spot because she would be too big to get through any doors she's 14 feet tall. And we built her out of straw first, and then we plastered her with mud. So I thought of it as with my building skills of building with Adobe it was fun because I could build a sculpture instead and use the different clays that I found between Santa Clara and Denver to coat the pieces to get the different colors. So they're just earthen dirt I had collected at different spots along the highway. That's great. And a lot of people in the chat turning back to the work that you made for the Barnes exhibition a lot of people in the chat were asking about the size of the work so can you talk more about, you know what size it is but also you know how you can see the size of the work. They're also asking about the stand that you were talking about. We unfortunately don't have an image of that stand so you will have to come in person to see it in the exhibition. But that that Roxanne did create a stand with dirt on it where it sits in its vitrine in the exhibition. So Roxanne if you could talk more about the size of the work and the stand you created. Yes, strong heart is about, I'm going to guess here, about 14 inches high, maybe 16 inches. So she's not very she's not real large but she's sits there and of course the meaning of it being that she's touching the ground and her heart. And she's an art piece so it had there's some contradiction there because you put something of art piece on a pedestal, you literally take them away from the earth. And I had her on the stand at the gallery and I was looking at her and I went this is not right she needs to be on the ground. I thought if I can't put her outside in the yard. If she's going to be shown in museums and galleries like that and I'm going to have to bring the earth to her. So I literally made sort of a box, put dirt in the box, and then that stays with her so that she always has her dirt with her no matter where she goes. It's really fabulous and I have to say when we were unpacking it and we saw this stand of dirt we're like oh my gosh how do we make sure this all stays with the piece because of course it's dirt so someone started to fall out. But it's it's amazing in the galleries and you all really will have to come see it. There's a question for Tony Tony could you from Deborah Tony could you tell us about the museum in Santa Fe where you work. Oh, sure. I worked at the Museum of Indian arts and culture, laboratory of anthropology in Santa Fe. It's one of the state museum and it started as the laboratory of anthropology of private institution, and then merged with the state system in 1944. And the general research area is the American Southwest. And we have a very nice bronze piece by Roxanne that will be in our permanent exhibition renovations here now and always that will open sometime this summer. That's great to hear. Another question for Roxanne, do you ever use a potter's wheel. I love to use a potter's well, because my mother knew how to use a potter's wheel and so I used her potter's wheel. And we made all our own dishes in the family on the wheel, but by way of sculpting I just do the pinch and coil method. But every once in a while if I, I don't have a wheel right now but whenever I get a chance I'm like, can I make a pot. And Roxanne, a question from Eva. Can you tell us what you mean when you say that your grandmother was old school? Old school in the context I was putting it in is the way she collected her family around her. She was such a strong community person that her kids couldn't leave if they tried. They were very reigning by her, you know, whether she had that mentality where you don't go away from community and have a career outside of the community. Everything was right here.  So everyone stayed very close around her like in a beehive with her. She was the queen bee for sure. I like that, the queen bee. And I think this will have to be the last question because we are getting to time. It's a question I think I missed earlier. This is for Lucy and Tony. Elizabeth asks in the curation for the exhibition, did you add culture? Yes, and just wanted to know if there were any culture artists included in in the selection of contemporary artists in the exhibition. No, we did not include culture embroidery. We did discuss the question because Dr. Barnes does have some other art from some of the Hispanic communities in, you know, the area where he was near Taos. But we did not include that it was sort of a, we had to put some boundaries on it and we really focused only on his Pueblo and Navajo works. So that's a show for another time. Well, I think that's a perfect way to end. Thank you so much, Roxanne, Tony and Lucy for this really beautiful and moving presentation and this fascinating conversation that really helps us understand Pueblo art and practice more deeply. I mean, thank you for joining us or to our audience for joining us. I hope you will visit the Barnes in person to see this exceptional work. And again, the exhibition runs through May 15. I just wanted to invite you to join us for other in person and some virtual programs related to Waterwind Breath this spring. We are offering a variety of lectures, classes and public programs that lift up native voices, culture and history. On Friday, March 25 at 6pm, we are proud to welcome the US Poet Laureate, Joy Harjo, a member of the Muskegee Nation for an evening of poetry and conversation. And for upcoming Pico Free First Sunday Family Days in April and May, we will be featuring native artists and organizations from our region. So that includes Native Nations Dance Theater. Here are the seeds and Indigenous Peoples Day Philly. And more details on all of those programs are available on our website under what's on. So thank you so much again for joining us. I hope I will get to see you at the Barnes in the remarkable Waterwind Breath exhibition. Have a good rest of your day.


From the SiliconANGLE Media office in Boston, Massachusetts, it's theCUBE. Now, here are your hosts, Dave Vellante and Stu Miniman. Hi everybody, 10 years ago in 2006, Amazon introduced EC2, its first cloud service. And many of us at the time predicted that it would change the world. 10 years on, it has changed the world. The cloud has taken the IT industry by storm. We've been seeing this groundswell for a number of years now, and it seemed to hit in a big way, in a big spike in 2016, where major practitioners began to, at large organizations, began to look at the cloud, generally, in Amazon web services, specifically as a fundamental component of its cloud strategy, along with others, of course, including Google and Microsoft and many, many others. But the heart of this cloud trend really started 10 years ago with Amazon. And we're here to preview Amazon re-invent 2016.  This is probably the biggest show of the year. Give us the preview of what you expect in terms of attendance and action going on at the show. Yeah, Dave, it's a super exciting show. I know theCUBE's thrilled to be there again. It'll be theCUBE's fourth year, my fourth year at the show, and the fifth year for the show overall. And like public cloud itself, we've been seeing exponential growth. So what started out as a few thousand people in Vegas, the number I'm hearing for this year is going to be 25 to 30,000. And it was like between 18 and 19,000 last year. So just like revenues, Dave, the number of people coming is huge. It's going to burst beyond kind of the Venetian Palazzo. I hear there's some events happening at the win. People will be staying all over and we're going to have two and a half days of full coverage of theCUBE. John Furrier, myself. We're going to miss you there, Dave, but glad we can break down some of it here beforehand. Re-invent, it's going to be a while, I guess, before it outgrows Las Vegas with CES as probably a couple of hundred thousand people. But it is beginning to flood into other parts of the city and requiring more hotels. I've said, Stu, this is kind of, we're entering the fourth phase of cloud. The first one was kind of getting used to this notion of elastic capacity and pay by the drink. And a lot of startups, as we know, took advantage of that. The second great phase that we saw was when the economy turned down in 2008, 2009, CFO said, I want to shift CapEx to OpEx and people started to really pick up on that. When we came out of the recession, Shadow IT really started in a big way. And now you're seeing organizations bring back sort of cloud into the staple of the data center and CIOs really owning that. It's becoming a fundamental component, as I said in the open, of people's cloud strategies. Yeah, absolutely Dave. The first year we went to the show, there's all these just gamers, people doing mobile development, very much a developer centric attendee there. Everybody got footies back four years ago at the show. The last couple of years, it's that kind of back and forth with the enterprise. Last year felt like a lot of the enterprise arrived. There was a big ecosystem of partners, people that understand companies like Accenture, training hundreds of people to be able to deliver services to help people adopt public cloud. Lots of the other integrators and service companies are getting involved in what's happening there. And there's just such a swell of everybody being involved. When I talked to practitioners, there's two types of practitioners Dave, people that are using AWS and people that don't realize that they're using AWS. Because it's just everything from an hour when the quiver to the main way that people are doing business. Amazon's been talking for the last couple of years about being all in. As we poke and tease at that, we believe it's a multi-cloud world. Everybody, especially software as a service will be using services that sit on multiple clouds. But Amazon is the big one, biggest revenue still growing at a very rapid pace. And really impressive the way that they keep adding features, learning from where they need to go, listening to the customers. And as Andy Jassy talks about that flywheel of adding more customers and adding more features just keeps perpetuating itself. Well, let's break down some of the numbers. So Amazon began quantifying for the world its AWS financials in the first quarter of 2015.  The kind of common wisdom out there that kind of people thought wasn't what the reality was and wasn't what you thought it was. Well, you're right. I mean, I always had said Amazon is incredibly profitable. Once they break out the numbers, you're going to see that. And the reason is, as we've written about and talked about is that Amazon's volume and its efficiencies and its marginal economics at volume are so superior to its competitors. And so the incremental cost of Amazon deploying compute or storage or servers or databases, et cetera, goes toward, doesn't go to zero, but it goes toward lower and lower and lower each time. So its cost structure is incredibly efficient and attractive. So let's break out some of the numbers. So as I said, Q1-15 is when Amazon started to divulge some of its financials for AWS. 10% of the total Amazon company revenue was accounted for by AWS in Q4-2015. They hit a $10 billion run rate in Q1-16. And my Amazon model says they'll do just under $14 billion this year. We've got them coming in at $14.6 billion. I think that's somewhat of a conservative figure. They hit a $1 billion stew of operating income in Q3-2016. These are non-gap numbers. So as I say, I think they'll do just under $14 billion this year. $4.2 billion in operating income is the forecast that I have for Amazon. The most impressive part of Amazon, to me, and it relates to the marginal economics that I was talking about before, is in Q1-15, when Amazon first broke out AWS, it had 17% operating margins. I'm predicting that in Q4, it's going to top 32, 33% operating margins. So it's clearly into the mid-30s now, low to mid-30s. Just by point of comparison, EMC, an incredibly profitable company, its non-gap operating margins are in the mid-teens. Okay, so Amazon's operating at double the profitability of a company like EMC. That is really impressive. Yeah, absolutely, Dave. The two things I don't hear anymore. Number one, the discussion of race to zero seems to have gone away. We understand that there will be price decreases as these cloud services mature, and as there's more competition, Microsoft's coming on hard, Google with Diane Greene making a big push here, but it is no longer a discussion of, oh, this is just, I mean, some vendors still say, there's this commodity cloud out there that's just going to be the race to zero, but if you look at the numbers, as you said, they're very profitable, very impressive what they're doing, and yeah, it's just quite impressive what they're doing. Some of the discussions that we're having in the Wikibon community relate to what's happening on prem. We saw the AWS VMware announcement earlier this year. Many thought, again, the discussion in the communities, there's pluses and there's minuses. Many see that as a win for VMware because they can now offer cloud services from AWS and extend their franchise into the cloud. Others see it as a one-way trip to the cloud. So there's some interesting debates there. There's also a debate going on internally as to what Amazon will do about the Azure stack, AWS specifically. David Floyer has predicted that Amazon will do some type of on-prem Azure stack-like appliance.  Maybe you talk about that a little bit. Yeah, sure. We've seen a lot of services from Amazon helping to migrate to the public cloud. One of the lines that you talk about VMware on AWS is we've just stuck a straw into 500,000 customers that Amazon is going to just kind of pull in all of those workloads. And all the conversations we've had with Andy Jassy and looking at Amazon, it's hybrid cloud, they think is a halfway house. They want everything to go in the public cloud. Now that being said, I understand from an architectural standpoint, David Floyer believes that IoT requires edge computing and things need to happen there. That's where I'm not opposed to seeing that Amazon would have some device that would do some kind of processing out of the edge and only move the data that needs to be moved because just the pure physics of moving all the data from the edge to the core probably doesn't make sense. But when I look at Azure stack, Azure stack is like a, you know, infrastructure replacement. It's here's your, you know, Dell EMC or HPE or Lenovo hardware stack. And it looks more like traditional infrastructure. And we're just going to mirror it between the public cloud and on-prem. I don't expect to see an Amazon stack that's going to be used to kind of replace your sand because Amazon believes that, you know, where their services are and, you know, all the activity that they have are in the public cloud. But by the way, the other thing that I had meant to mention before is for a while people were thinking that maybe AWS should be spun out of Amazon. And I haven't heard that for a while. It's the second thing that kind of seems to have fallen by the wayside lately. Well, it surprised me for AWS. I mean, it's a large proportion of Amazon's operating profits. It throws off cash. It just seems in a weird way. It is synergistic because you've got the retail operation heavily using, you know, AWS. That's how that was those are the roots of AWS. You know, it's also interesting. When you think about competing with Amazon and the knockoffs on Amazon, it used to be SLA, SLA, SLA. That's you don't hear that much anymore. And then it used to be, well, they don't have a lot of data centers. You're now seeing Amazon extend its data center footprint into places where there are, you know, local laws requiring data. But where are people able to compete with Amazon?  They're taking a different approach from a partnership standpoint with the Azure stack. But what are you saying? Yes, so first of all, right, Dave, start with the applications. You know, Amazon has a number of services that they build in and certain SaaS providers that will live on Amazon. But if I can build a service that meets what my customers need, you know, I'm going to use that SaaS offering and I don't really care as much what's sitting underneath it. Secondly, it's really around kind of the governance and compliance issue, Dave. So absolutely Amazon is growing their footprint. They're growing, grow globally. But there are people that are going to want to, you know, hold it in-house. You know, the financial community is still very much wants it within their four walls or they're working with service providers that are very local. And I was just over in Austria recently and talked to, you know, a service provider in South Africa, another one in the Netherlands.  You know, one of them focuses heavily on retail. Of course, the whole retail industry is probably not going to go on ADBUS because that is, you know, competitor number one. Walmart, you know, doesn't use AWS because Amazon.com is their chief competitor. So there are definitely certain verticals that are leveraging public cloud quite strongly. But, you know, service providers and other services that can get local and handle that governance and compliance issue. That's something that's still going to take a long time to sort out. The other thing, and I heard Roger McDonough be talking about this the other day, that Amazon for the first time since, you know, Windows, you're seeing software companies, ISVs placing their product on Amazon, running it in Amazon. And of course, he pointed out, you know, you saw what happened with Microsoft. They just sort of gobbled up the application space. You're seeing Amazon, and Roger didn't reference this, but Amazon's already moving up the stack with database. With, you know, DynamoDB, DB, Aurora. I mean, they've got a number of, you know, Redshift, RDS. They've got a number of database offerings and middleware offerings. They are moving up the stack. Do you expect, is there a discussion going on about Amazon eventually getting into the, you know, the applications business? There's a ways off, but at some point, when they get to be $50 billion, they're going to be needing to expand their TAM. What are your thoughts? Dave, every year at Amazon, it's like, okay, what part of the ecosystem is Amazon going to take a big chunk out of? What was it? It was, you know, a year or two ago, it was the database stuff, you know, focusing on what Oracle's doing with Aurora. It was Citrix a few years back when it was the, you know, workspaces that was going on there. With the VDI. Absolutely. I mean, Dave, the word when we talked about Amazon is frictionless. How does Amazon make it easier? They had a recent announcement for SaaS providers that are in the marketplace. I can actually just pay all that through my Amazon subscription. No longer do I have to say, oh, okay, wait, I'm going to use all of these services and manage this billing here and this billing there. I could just wrap it all in. Amazon's going to be a single bill, put it on, you know, a single contract, make it nice and easy for me to use, you know, SaaS providers that are in the Amazon marketplace, Amazon services, and it just becomes so easy to be my supplier of choice. Yeah, and think about a total available market standpoint. I mean, I think, I mean, I've talked to Andy Jassy about this before and I've said it's a trillion dollar TAM. I don't know if he's used that number, but I have no doubt that they're looking at that, you know, large space. And so there's another dynamic here, Stu, and we're seeing the, everybody's an IT company now. Banyoff said it, I think first, is that you're going to see more SaaS companies come out of non-technology companies than you will out of technology companies. And that's to me really the dynamic that Amazon is playing. They're enabling non-tech companies to become tech companies, taking the infrastructure off the table and saying, okay, you go and innovate. Those practitioners are not threatened by Amazon. You know, data stacks, putting its database on Amazon, that might be a threat there because Amazon might be pushing DynamoDB. And so you're going to see some friction, I would predict, within the IT supplier space. But beyond that, the practitioner space, I think that's where the huge opportunity is. Yeah, Dave, absolutely. I mean, it's why you saw companies like Nike, like Capital One, others getting up on stage, talking about how they're getting rented data centers, standardizing on services from Amazon. It's interesting, GE has been up on stage there. Predix, I believe, lives on Azure though. So this dynamic of where resources live and public cloud, just being that API economy, software services is public cloud where a lot of that's going to live. Well, it's a multi-cloud world, but I want to come back to the comment you made on API. So there is also a discussion going on in the Wikibon community about API creep and API complexity. Amazon strategy has always been get down to the API level. That's the primitive construct and it allows you maximum flexibility. If you go too high of an abstraction layer, you make mistakes and then you're sort of locked into that abstraction layer and you can't be agile and you can't be flexible. So Amazon's choice seems to anyway, Stu, I'd love your thoughts on this to be, to go down to the granular API level. But if you look at, you know, Amazon's got at least 10 data services with EC2 and S3 and Glacier and Kinesis and DynamoDB and on and on and on. Each of those has a separate proprietary API. And so the data pipeline starts to get elongated and you're moving around this set of different services. It starts to get complex. Also, you're making choices based on cost and based on the frequency of access of your data. And a lot of times it's not clear. Sure, Glacier's clear. I'm going to put it there and hopefully I never have to get it. But, you know, DynamoDB versus Redshift versus, you know, Aurora and Kinesis and it starts to get somewhat confusing for customers and they get that Amazon bill at the end of the month and they go, whoa. And then they got to move and so, or do something. So there's a bit of a backlash, is there not?  The enterprise guys are usually willing to spend money to have a solution that's nice and baked because I don't have the resources to kind of put all the pieces together. Amazon's a weird one because I remember the first year I went to Amazon, they came out with a new service that was like, we're going to give you better visibility into what you're doing and show you places where you've been like overspending like by 50 or 70%. And it shocked me coming from the enterprise space to hear people that were like, oh, this is a wonderful tool and oh, cool. I can save like half the money now that I was saving before.  So it's this weird dynamic.  I'm going to choose the ones I have and I'm going to put it together. And there's lots of opportunity for those integrators and those service providers to help me, you know, leverage it. If there's something that I want, chances are it's going to be there.  But it is this dynamic, lots of opportunity for those kind of cloud management platform solutions out there and starting to see a number of companies that are trying to help solve this complexity problem, which I thought going to public cloud was supposed to solve that, right? We get this, you know, homogeneous environment, but, you know, enterprise, I've got lots of applications. I need lots of services and therefore, you know, I don't necessarily get rid of complexity, I've just kind of shipped it. Well, it hasn't seemed to hurt Amazon.  He used to work at EMC and the sales guys would quote lower price per gigabyte, for instance, every quarter. That's normal because of Moore's law, but it really, the point being, people don't go to Amazon just for the cost or even necessarily for the cost, they go for the flexibility, the agility. So my point is it hasn't hurt their growth rate. I mean, if you look at Amazon's growth rates, it's 50%, 80%, 78%, 55%, 64%. I mean, these are the annual growth rates of AWS services. They've stayed consistently above that 50% level. You know, people are waiting for it to attenuate.  That hasn't happened yet. You know, we'll see your thoughts on their ability to continue growth. Can Amazon keep growing at this pace, AWS? Yeah, I think they can, Dave, because first of all, you talked about that TAM. And even I heard people this year say, well, Microsoft's growing at 100%. But, you know, from a public cloud and that's kind of SaaS and Azure all put together. But if you look at, you know, Microsoft and Amazon, absolutely they're competing, but Microsoft has their set of applications. They've got like Citrix applications living on top of them. Amazon is a lot of new applications. Communities I look at are super excited about things like AWS Lambda, which is the poster child for the serverless kind of functions as a service movement that's going on to really be able to take the application at the center using things like microservices and containers and not have to worry about the infrastructure underneath it. Just going back to that simplicity that we're trying to drive at. But I don't see anything that's gonna stop Amazon for at least the next few years. They've still got lots of global growth and tons of applications and pieces. And when you look at that overall TAM, there's still a small piece of it, even if they hit that $14 to $15 billion this year that puts them, where does that put them compared to some of the infrastructure guys, Dave? Well, I mean, so again, well, look at Dell EMC, with 80 billion, 70, 80, 85 billion. So ways to go there. So I think you're right. I think there's a huge enough market for Amazon to continue to grow. And I think the other thing is it's kind of bromide when you hear Jassy talk about how, well, we focus on the customers, but they do focus on the customers. It's the customer first. And they seem to be doing a pretty good job of listening to customers and delivering services that are in demand because they launched these new services and people eat them up and they grow quickly and they get testimonials and in real world, you know, large organizations. So that's the other big thing. You're starting to see Amazon really knock down some pretty impressive logos in the enterprise. They still haven't knocked down the hardcore, you know, Oracle workloads. I'm not saying they're not running Oracle on Amazon, people are, but the hardcore, you know, rack workloads, that's sort of Oracle sweet spot still. And that seems to be where Oracle is sort of migrating. Well, let's close on sort of the horses on the track.  We've talked about Microsoft. Where's Google and all this? Yeah, so Google absolutely is trying to focus on the enterprise more, Dave. That's why they brought Diane Greene into the mix there. They've got a strong position really in the analytics space. They're going to be holding their cloud event in March and they've been growing, but they're kind of a far third in the big public cloud guys behind Amazon and Microsoft today. You know, they've been making some acquisitions. They're making some moves, but, you know, I don't hear Google as much yet, even though it's funny, some of the smart guys I know in the industry, they're like, oh, Amazon came out with a new feature. You know, Google had that two years ago. I said, yeah, but the knock on Google is always that Google builds something that Google engineers can build. You know, we just had, John Furrier was out at KubeCon. Kubernetes, of course, came out of Google. That's a way to get kind of that cluster layer of applications into all of the environments. So it's somewhere that kind of Google technology is going to spread quite a bit. So, you know, Google's definitely one to watch and, you know, how it plays into lots of partnerships that it has with, you know, companies like VMware. You know, Pivotal is now doing, I think it was Home Depot based on the Google Cloud Platform. And Oracle obviously seems to be focused on preserving its estate, its database franchise and then moving things into applications. I think Oracle sees that applications are really the next control point. And it also, I think Safra Katz has pointed this out many times, if you're selling the infrastructure and the middleware and the database and the applications, you're actually going to make more money in the long run. Oracle, obviously, very financially savvy. The other one's IBM. IBM, to me, it's one word, Watson. You can't get Watson without the soft layer cloud or whatever they're calling the cloud these days. So that's their strategy. Yeah, I'm interested to hear kind of discussion of machine learning and artificial intelligence. I'm sure it will come up at AWS this year. And we'll see how much of that competes against the Watson type of solution. Oh, it was interesting to see that 60 minutes interview with Charlie Rose several weeks ago with John Kelly and a bunch of others at IBM. Amazon, Microsoft, Google got virtually no love in that interview. And a lot of people say that those companies have better technology than Watson. So we'll see. But IBM from a marketing standpoint and a services standpoint, and it's got an early lead there, particularly in the enterprise. It doesn't have, in my view, anyway, hardcore competition in the enterprise. Somebody tweeted me the other day, well, what about Microsoft? You know, Microsoft, it's early days, they're still in beta. Not that Watson's not early days, but IBM has been doing some heavy lifting in certain industries like healthcare and certain other sort of peripheral industries. So I think it's got a head start there, but the key, again, to me for Amazon or IBM's cloud is it's got Watson. That's its sort of secret sauce right now. And it can sort of match the capabilities like it goes out and buys Cleversafe or ObjectStore, can match those capabilities that Amazon has. But Watson is really the future of IBM. All right, I'll give you the last word, closing thoughts. We're going to be there with theCUBE. What do you expect? Yeah, so Amazon, Dave, this is the show.  This is a show to be at. Just the people that are there, the customers that are at this. First of all, not only do you have good developers that are there, but the community of people that are there, they're excited about trying different things. And that's like, if you talk about companies and how you get ahead and stay ahead of your competitors, that being willing to try, risk, and take advantage of some of those new things out there, this is probably the best show out there. And now it's also one of the biggest shows out there. So super excited to be there. There's tons of social activity. I mean, I'm disappointed. I'm going to be so busy doing theCUBE. I can't do things like check out the preview of season two of Man in the High Castle, which is coming out on Amazon streaming. Dave, I know both of us were prime members. Amazon keeps adding all of these services that there's things going on there. So evening events, kind of the Cloudorati community that I like to hang out with some will be there. A bunch of the BCs that used to have parties at BM World are now having them at Amazon this year. So great group of people, super excited. I know sessions are going to be overloaded. The show floor is going to be nuts. And, you know, boy, Vegas is going to be packed with a ton of people excited about this. And we'll be right in the center of it on the show floor. Yeah, huge set there as always. You know, Amazon always gives us great space and we have awesome guests. We didn't talk about IoT, but check out some of the stuff on wikibon.com. We've been talking a lot about the Cloud and IoT and Edge and where Amazon fits in there. It'd be interesting to see what comes out of reinvent with IoT, check out siliconangle.com for all the news and siliconangle.tv for all the videos that we do and all the cube action. So thanks for watching everybody. This is Dave Vellante and Stu Miniman. We'll see you next time.