Hello everybody and welcome to another hobby cheating video today. We are going to compare airbrushes. We're going to talk brands We're going to talk features. We're going to talk what you need what you should choose So let's get into it. Let's strict techno man sir. That is Vinci v. Let us get to the technique and learn it Vinci v style All right airbrushes turns out. There's quite a few of them on the market Different brands different features and if you're new to the whole thing Or maybe even if you've been airbrushing for a while and you're looking for an upgrade This is the video for you. We're going to head over to the painting desk I'm going to take you through a bunch of different airbrushes and show you how really most any of them Can be used to do most of the tasks you need But also where some of the really high-end more expensive ones can do a few things the others can't We're going to put them through their paces do a few tests See how they perform and see what the real material differences are in their usage This should be a lot of fun Let's do it. So these are the airbrushes. We're going to focus on today we're going to look over these seven airbrushes and As I'm talking here, you're going to see each of them pop up on the screen But we've got the master and g23 the very sort of cheap option the badger chrome the grex xgi 3 the Iwata HP CS the Iwata Highline CH the hard-earned steenback infinity Kiev and Archive sorry, I'm not sure which the correct pronunciation is and the infinity cr plus Now first I want to start with just a few basic things about the airbrush You'll notice with all my airbrushes I have this extra fixture on the bottom This is a quick change cap that you can use along with an extension on your hose So you can change between them easily and often which I do because I use them for different purposes They're very cheap you can get them in bulk off Amazon or from USA airbrush supply or something like that Now the airbrush itself what it consists of is most of them The back is going to come off of course and then you have your needle chuck and you can take the needle out Lots of people say you shouldn't remove the needle out of the back You're supposed to remove it out the front and they say that because when you slide it back into the back You risk damaging the tip and that is true My response is yes, but it's really annoying to take it out of the front. So I'm just going to be careful You do you Many airbrushes also have this dial on the back that you can use to control The trigger as to how far back it will go. Let me can see you can go from, you know, full extension to lock and so You'll that's often a useful tool, especially if you're having trouble controlling how much backwards pressure you're applying The highlight in this case also has an airflow control on the front and some higher end airbrushes Do you have this airflow control that's controlling how much air is flowing between the hose and out the tip Now when it comes to the cup, there are many different designs You'll notice both of the eyewatts are roughly the same and in this case the eyewater does not have a removable cup But if you look at the master g23 There's a lot more space down there where paint can get caught and things like that Or as if you look at the grex, it's much smaller The smaller the cup area The harder it is to clean however with something like the grex you can unscrew the cup Which does make it then easier to get into that area and remove Walking a good balance between enough space to clean it easily with a soft brush And not too much space where paint can build up or just hang out is really important Finally, you've got your needle guard. So there are two. There is the nozzle guard and the needle guard on the front The needle guard can generally come off and help you get finer lines or you can have a tooth like Needle guard as like on the infinity Now we're going to start with a couple different tests So first off the most common reason people buy an airbrush, which is just priming Rattle cans are expensive and annoying to prime with I prime with my airbrush for basically everything that's not terrain And here i'm just using the master g23 And some pro crow primer and guess what if your goal is just to have an airbrush to prime Something like this cheap 30 airbrush is all you need and in fact, you'll see i'll do a lot more tasks with this over time But if you're looking for something to just get those miniatures primed so you can get to painting Don't waste your money anything cheap is fine And as a point of fact here, we're going to do the old paper test So our next round is the paper test We're in we're going to spray all of these and see how they operate under sort of perfect conditions When I can hold it flat and rest my hand and all of that as you can see the master Even though it's a 0.3 needle does create some pretty fat lines Now the badger chrome with a 0.21 millimeter needle Can produce some pretty pretty thin lines while producing a nice smooth spray pattern The difference in needle size You're going to see some of these airbrushes like the grex the master and the iwatas that I use having a 0.3 millimeter needle whereas the badger and the harder and steamback Having 0.2s now There isn't really that huge of a connection between your ability to do a thin line and the needle in question The yes, there is a difference, but it's so very small The precision of the machining of the trigger and your ability to develop trigger control With the tool will influence your ability to do sharp thin lines much more Than your than the particular needle for example I can do about the same thin line with the iwata with a 0.3 millimeter needle or the high line here as I did with the badger And the reason for that is because uh, I've used both of these tools a great deal I'm very comfortable with the trigger and having a statless trigger control The harder and steinbecks though are truly a cut above with either the 0.2 millimeter needle in the infinity key or the harder and steamback cr plus with the 0.15 You know, I can write my name pretty easily. I can do razor thin lines And so eventually you will get to the point where you really do have an enhanced sense of control And if you combine the smaller needle and nozzle With the with you know, you're you're built up muscle control over the trigger You will be able to really really become a surgeon and do some very fine lines So as you can see the greks the master produced some pretty fat lines the the badger produced nice a lot, you know Nice thin control same with the iwata and the the harder and steinbeck coming out clearly on top Now let's actually put this in practice because normally our miniatures are not pieces of paper or at least they haven't been for me since the mid 90s So now it's time to actually just do some base coating the next most common thing we buy an airbrush for Here again, we're going to start with the master g23 and i'm just going to put some flesh tone down over black paint We're not going to worry about zenithals. We're not going to do anything like that We're just going to get in there and we're going to apply some paint And as you can see for the purposes of base coating I can get that on no problem So again, the cheap airbrush performs just fine You'll see the difference here when I switch over to the iwata see hpcs for the front Notice how because of the precision of the machining in the control you see how much less paint Is coming out at a time now? I'm applying about the same pressure all of these paints are thinned exactly the same I prepared a batch and put the same one in every single Every single airbrush And I did not let them sit or anything like that. So this is the same paint same consistency same everything But you notice with the iwata because the trigger is so much more precise I was able to slowly build it up over time And when you're building consecutive layers on your base coats, that's often a very very valuable thing The same is true of the chrome now the design on the chrome is quite interesting. It has this very fat wide open Cup that's very easy to clean and very flat. So I do love that design Uh, but at the same time, it's a little bit harder and heavy to actually keep in your hand Now the key of again kills it at base coating a key. I'm sorry. Um, I'm just going to call it the the uh, the harder and steaming back Just kills it at base coating kills it at everything because I have such perfect control and Notably that infinity is uh, made of aluminum. So it's extremely lightweight The next test highlighting can we highlight? In other words, can we layer with the airbrush? And as you'll notice here, I've just stepped up to a light flesh again starting with the master and sure no problem For those larger open areas on your miniatures again, the cheap airbrush is going to do you just fine Didn't need to spend a lot of money, but I can be if I want slightly more control And more ability to do a better job when I move to the eye wadi you'll see again that ability to build up the paint is coming into effect Now with the chrome, it's exactly the same here. I'm going to work on the pants I'm doing the front and back of him with all four of these uh, going into round two here And you'll notice here again, I'm able to just very gently rock the trigger The one thing I will say for the badger is it's heavy, but it does have very nice control overall Um, I was able to with you know, sort of my highlight color here establish something very very gently Now with the uh infinity, uh, I'm able to just like precision in a precision way get in there and apply the highlights I need uh as a point of fact, you'll see as we rotate the miniature around in just a moment here Uh, you can see how I'll just focus in very small on that knee area And I'll miss the other sides and I can just build that tiny tiny area up Last test here glazing Uh, a very important thing to do with your airbrush because it's so much easier than the brush yet again the master g 23 Does it just fine? The difference is the spray pattern is going to be wider So I'm going to be limited when I'm working with my miniatures on the areas I can glaze But when I'm dealing with an ogre or something like this a vehicle It's going to be just fine for these smaller areas or when I need more precision That's when it's time to wear the something like the eyewater really shines Here I can just very gently because of the nature of how I have the trigger control Build this up much more softly than I did on the back I can also hone it in a lot better on particular small areas So as I move up to say his forehead or under his knuckles or something like that I just have a better level of control For the chrome we're going to actually do the skin transition for that in the infinity So here we're using sort of a mid-tone yellowy color to smooth out the skin But you'll notice again that I am able to be quite precise As I move around the the miniature I'm able to hit just the areas I want Get in there, you know, I'm going to do the hit these two back muscles And you can see how I can be very very small and precise Now part of this is because the trigger control and part of this is working in those thin layers As I've mentioned in previous videos The key of a cave sorry here once again, I apologize if I'm mispronouncing that Is going to once again just really outpace the others to some degree Because I can be so precise down to these very tiny muscle structures Getting in there and hitting like just the thumb or individual fingers or stuff like that It really does have a level of control that the other ones don't And part of that is the needle and part of that is the precision of the trigger As a proof point of that, let's see just how precise we can get Let's do something I would never actually do with an airbrush Let's paint it just his belt So we're going to turn just his belt black And as you can see with the infinity, I'm able to get in there and just do the belt I'm not overspraying onto the pants. I'm not overspraying onto the skin above it or anything like that I can do the bracer here and you can see no no overspray onto the rest of the the figure That level of precision is something you're really only going to get out of the the higher end airbrush Something like this infinity All right, so the master g23 Very cheap airbrush easy Dime a dozen as you could see I was still able to do Most of the tasks I needed to do with it However, realistically this airbrush is best if you're looking for something cheap to get in to get going You can prime you can base coat you can do all the things you need to do It's really more about learning the tool and how to use it than it is about the quality of the tool That being said it's a lot heavier than the others Just because the nature of how it's constructed that makes it just harder and more tiring to use in your hand and you know To balance on your fingers It also doesn't have the precision machining that a lot of the other ones have So the parts don't fit as well together and you may have to spend more time sort of futzing around with it to get it To perform where you want But if you're just looking for something that's going to help you get vehicles done get your priming regardless of the season There's no reason something like a simple master airbrush like this Which is you know very little money comparatively Let that be an excellent entry into the world of airbrushing for you Absolutely no shame in it. It's a great choice Next up the badger now badger makes many different airbrushes This of course that I was showing you here has been the chrome There are a lot of differences in the various Badger products, but they're all high quality products. You know, they're all made here in the usa Where I am right now and they all deliver A good solid performance as you can see I was able to do many tasks even down to quite precise work with them without any trouble Again, this is a pretty heavy airbrush The body and what it's manufactured out of is pretty pretty dense Meaning that it is going to be heavy in your hand Now it does have especially the chrome a much nicer grip in this rubber grip that you can sort of hold onto That is a nice small feature. It's a it's a little thing, but trust me after hours of airbrushing It really does matter This especially the chrome but really most of the badger line Does have a lot higher level of quality machining Then you see out of some of the cheaper brands that are out there Badger I find to be a really nice airbrush at a very competitive price Absolutely nothing wrong with these if you get a chance to pick one of these up I there's it can absolutely be an all-purpose airbrush for you doing everything you need from priming and base coating Detail work blazing the whole shooting matches you or as you saw I was able to do all of it No problem with it. They're good solid airbrushes The only thing that you have to remember is that they do have that different connector tip by default So you have to get the little converter For your quick change to make sure that it can you know be swapped out with any other airbrushes You have and connect to standard hopes Okay, Iwata now the Iwata HPCS has been my workhorse airbrush For more than eight years. In fact, this particular airbrush has been used for a good seven years of that time And I've used it for hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of hours thousands of miniatures I really do think it's a fantastic airbrush. It's durable. It is solid. It is also heavy But it's nice again very high quality machining very precision control you can You know remove the needle guard if you want to be careful and actually get some pretty precise and tight lines out of it So all in all this is a performant airbrush Now from the HPCS I also showed you a little bit of the high line which is sort of the next step up There are Iwatas above that as well All of them give you the ability to have that different needle and housing and just focus focus focus in And get those really really tight really really precise really fine lines If you're looking to spend some money on an airbrush Iwata can be an excellent choice for your upgrade absolutely nothing wrong with it These are super high quality airbrushes well supported and you can Get the parts from many us retailers if you're here in the united states But if you're other places in the world the parts are generally pretty widely available Which is good the grex now this is actually the heaviest in the hand of all of them even heavier than the master That's one of the reasons I don't like it. I also just find it doesn't really respond as precisely as I would like I was able to do most tasks with this airbrush And grex has several different airbrushes in their line again. I'm just looking at one of them here But overall I found this one to be Probably the most underwhelming it does have some nice features that I like It has the standard lock for the trigger so you can't pull back too far I do like that it has the removable cup which is a nice feature that makes it much easier to clean And it's not a bad airbrush by any stretch of the imagination I've just found that over time it was a little more finicky and a little more trouble and wasn't producing the quality results That I really wanted so overall a nice airbrush But certainly probably not where I would spend my money if I had the choice between everything I've reviewed here Last up the infinity the infinity from harder and steinbeck I should have two different versions here both the infinity key of and the infinity cr plus Uh, I will be honest. These have become my go-to favorite airbrushes. I truly truly love Harder and steinbeck and and the products they produce Not only was this an amazing airbrush for charity. I covered in detail some time ago that went to relief for victims of the war in the ukraine But also with all of the harder and steinbeck products I find that they have just the highest quality of precision machining Everything on this thing on this airbrush is designed with absolute utter care and a desire for perfection in action Uh from the quick change or the quick reset on the back Of your your airbrush here to just the precision control of the trigger The way the needle moves the way it sort of floats Inside the actual housing and moreover because the infinity key of here has an aluminum body It is so lightweight in the hand. This thing's like barely heavier than a pencil It's just incredible. You can use it forever. You can do really really really precise lines With the point two or the point one five needle. Um, this one currently has the point two housing in it My cr plus has the point one five housing in it You really can be a surgeon with these airbrushes just getting the tightest finest lines Uh, and just it that's not just because of the size of the needle as I mentioned earlier You know the ultimate difference between point two millimeters and point three millimeters is not really that large Uh, but There the difference in the precision of the control and how much you can really just just touch that trigger This excels above all the rest But these are expensive the cr plus and the infinities in general. They're not a cheap airbrush now They're not a you know a car or anything. Let's be realistic here But they are a sizable investment If you're looking to take your airbrushing to a point where you're doing really fine detail work with your airbrush Where you can be a surgeon then these are absolutely worth the investment And hey in the case of the infinity key of your money goes to an excellent cause so All around right, so that's all the airbrushes as you can see Uh, most of these airbrushes really will perform for you once you sort of get above $100 here in the us and you get into that level of airbrushing You're able to do most tasks you want to do It's more about practice and learning with the tool than it is about the tool itself That being said when you're trying to do really fine precision high-end work with it That's where the quality of the tool comes into play If you're painting your miniatures and you're just looking for a good workhorse to prime to do some base coats Maybe some simple glazing or environmental lighting then more or less any of these airbrushes are going to work with you And you can make your purchase with confidence based on what's available in your area your geography your region in the world However, if you're looking for something that really does provide the super highest quality for me It has to be the harder and Steinbeck with the Iwata coming a close second Both are tremendously good brands making extremely high quality airbrushes And I don't think you can go wrong with either choice I have put hundreds of hours into both of them and been incredibly pleased with both products Now that being said the harder and Steinbeck has become my new favorite Just because of how much I'm able to control it as I've started moving into doing more delicate and fine work I really hope this helped you make a decision with your airbrushing and what to purchase If you liked it, give it a like subscribe for additional hobby cheating in the future If you've got questions drop those down in the comments below. Is there something I didn't answer About airbrushing that you wanted to know or about these airbrush brands happy to respond to all comments down below If you want to support the channel, there's a patreon where you can do so It's focused on you taking your next step on your hobby journey. You can find the link for that down below As always though, I thank you so much for watching and as always we'll see you next time


I think, okay, so good afternoon everyone. I'm Lisa Donner and I'm the Executive Director of Americans for Financial Reform. I want to welcome you and thank you all for coming on behalf of Americans for Financial Reform and also the Economic Policy Institute and the Roosevelt Institute with whom we are jointly sponsoring today's. I'm going to very quickly say something about what we hope to do this afternoon and then also very quickly introduce Senator Warren so we can spend as much time as possible actually listening to the senator before she needs to go. Especially after the recent Stronger Jobs Report, next week's meeting of the Federal Open Market Committee will be the occasion for a bunch of argument about whether the Fed should increase short-term interest rates in order to head off inflation and prevent excessive speculation and risk-taking in the world of finance. But raising interest rates is likely to hurt job growth and throw a damper on economic recovery, which is already coming very slowly, if at all, for too many people who are hit hard by the financial crisis and its aftermath. What if there are alternative ways to approach dealing with bubbles and other speculative dangers with regulatory tools that are more targeted to specific risks? And what if using financial regulation effectively could also help allow the Fed to stimulate the economy in ways that deliver more benefits to working people and are less likely to further overweight the financial sector? These are hardly radical questions. And Chair Janet Yellen has talked about the importance of macroprudential regulatory tools to deal with financial stability and the work that the Fed is doing to put these in place. But we think they're very important questions and that they need more attention and we want to dig in further. For many of us, too, putting these pieces together is part of our continuing focus on deepening our understanding and the public's recognition of the fundamentally important relationships between the financial system, financial regulation and how the real economy works or fails to work for everyday Americans. So our first panel, immediately after Senator Warren speaks, will focus on the downsides of relying only on monetary policy as a tool for stabilization, as well as on the debate about the extent to which the Fed should pull back its support for economic recovery in order to keep inflationary pressure in check. Then there'll be a second keynote from Paul Kregman. And then the second panel will examine the financial regulatory tools available and consider how and to what extent they can in fact be used to control financial risks. Now for Senator Warren. We're very fortunate to have the senator with us today and even more fortunate to have her in the Senate every day and enjoy her leadership standing up to the excessive economic power and political influence of Wall Street in spelling out the harm that does to families and communities and in insisting that things need to be and can be different and that legislators and regulators can make different choices to get us there. We've been lucky enough to work with the senator on the creation of the new Consumer Financial Protection Bureau, a remarkable example of the difference that approach can make and are so glad to be able to continue the conversation about advancing these important principles. Senator Warren. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you for the kind introduction. Thank you for this chance to be able to join all of you here today. Today's event focuses on how the Federal Reserve can use its monetary tools to promote economic growth and its regulatory and supervisory tools to rein in our financial system. You know, the Fed has always had dual responsibilities, monetary policy and regulatory and supervisory policy. But in the wake of the 2008 financial crisis, Congress gave the Fed even more regulatory and supervisory authority than it had before. The new chair of the Fed, Janet Yellen, recently acknowledged the Board's supervisory responsibilities are just as important as its better known obligation to set interest rates and conduct monetary policy. I think the lapses that led to the 2008 crisis drove that point home with searing intensity. The Fed is now our first line of defense against another crisis. And we've made progress through the Dodd-Frank Act. The risk, even so, the risk of another crisis remains unacceptably high. Take just one example. This summer, the Fed and the FDIC determined that 11 of the country's biggest banks had no credible plan for being resolved in bankruptcy. Now, that means that if any one of them takes on too much risk and starts to fail, the taxpayers would have to bail it out to prevent another crash. We're all relying on the Fed to stop that from happening, which means we're all relying on the Fed to get tough in regulating the biggest banks. The question is whether the bank regulators can do the job we need them to do. And that raises an issue about the influence of Wall Street on financial regulation and economic policy. It's an issue that affects not only the Fed, but also the other banking regulators, the Treasury Department, and our government's entire economic policymaking structure. So let's look at some facts. Fact one, Wall Street spends a lot of time and money influencing Congress. Public citizen and the Center for Responsive Politics found that in the run-up to Dodd-Frank, the financial services sector employed 1,447 former employees to carry out their lobbying efforts, including 73 former members of Congress. And according to a report by the Institute for America's Future, by 2010, the six biggest banks and their trade associations employed 243 lobbyists who once worked in the federal government, including 33 who had been chiefs of staff and for members of Congress, and 54 who had worked as staffers for the banking oversight committees in the Senate and the House. Now, that's a lot of former government employees and congressmen pounding on Congress to make sure that the big banks get heard. No surprise that the financial industry spent more than a million dollars a day lobbying Congress on financial reform, and a lot of that money went to former elected officials and government employees. Fact two, Wall Street dedicates enormous amounts of time and money to influencing regulatory policies. The Sunlight Foundation, a nonpartisan nonprofit organization, took a look at all of the meeting logs from 2010 to 2012 of the Treasury Department, the Commodities Futures Trading Commission, and the Fed. It found that those three agencies reported meeting with one of the 20 big banks or banking associations a combined 12 and a half times a week. That's about five times as often as reform-oriented groups combined. That works out to nearly 1,300 meetings over two years. Goldman and J.P. Morgan each met with those agencies at least 175 times, or nearly twice per week, every week on average. And keep in mind, that's the count at only three of the seven major regulators. Fact three, Democratic administrations have filled an enormous number of senior economic policy positions with people who have close ties to Wall Street. Starting with Robert Rubin, a former city group CEO, three of the last four Treasury secretaries under Democratic presidents have had city group affiliations before or after their Treasury service. The fourth was offered, but declined, city group CEO position. The new vice chairman of the Federal Reserve, Stanley Fisher, was a city group executive. Directors of the National Economic Council, the Office of Management and Budget, our current U.S. trade representative, and senior officials at the Treasury Department have also had city group ties. Now that's the record for just one single bank. Many other senior officials in recent administrations have had ties to Goldman, J.P. Morgan, Bank of America, Morgan Stanley, or other major Wall Street firms. Still more officials, including two recent appointees to the Commodity Futures Trading Commission, or lawyers who spent huge portions of their careers representing Wall Street institutions. This is the revolving door at its most dangerous. In virtually every economic policy discussion held in Washington, the point of view of Wall Street banks is well represented. So well represented, in fact, that it often crowds out other points of view. And that's the context for thinking about the nomination of Antonio Weiss. He spent the last 20 years to be at the investment bank, Lazard, and he's been named to be undersecretary for domestic finance at the Treasury Department. He has focused on international corporate mergers, companies buying and selling each other. Now, it may be interesting, challenging work, but it does not sufficiently qualify him to oversee consumer protection and domestic regulatory functions at the Treasury Department. In addition to his lack of basic qualifications, Mr. Weiss was part of the Burger King Inversion Deal that moved the U.S. company to Canada as part of a merger that would cut down on its tax obligations. Also note that Mr. Weiss's friends at Lazard are giving him a golden parachute valued at about $20 million as he goes into government service. For me, this is just one spin of the revolving door too many. Enough is enough. The response to these concerns has been, let's say, loud. First, his supporters say, come on, and he's an investment banker, so of course he should be qualified to oversee complicated financial work at Treasury. But his defenders haven't shown that his actual experience qualifies him for this job at Treasury. Professor Adam Leviton, a law professor who teaches financial regulation in Georgetown, wrote a really good piece about this last week. He looked at each of the functions of the undersecretary position and, as he put it, quote, almost none of that relates to the work of an investment banker doing international M&A. Professor Simon Johnson, the former chief economist at the IMF who now teaches at MIT, agrees. He noted last week that this position was, quote, the third most senior official in the executive branch with regard to physical decision-making. And then he goes on to say, it's hard to think of any senior physical official from a serious country with qualifications as weak as those of Mr. Weiss. End quote. Professor Leviton and Professor Johnson are right. I worked at Treasury, and I know how critical this position is to financial regulation issues. Despite what some of Weiss's supporters have said, the job isn't just to pedal U.S. Treasuries to foreign investors. And even if it were, Weiss is a corporate dealmaker, not a bond trader. Professor Leviton makes another good point about this. Quoting Professor Leviton again, the shock of Mr. Weiss's supporters, that anyone would dare question his suitability, reflects an unspoken assumption that anyone from Wall Street is, of course, expert in all things financial. That's hooey. End quote. I agree. We'd all scratch our heads if the president nominated a theoretical physicist to be the surgeon general just because she had a background in science. It's no less puzzling for the president to nominate an international merger specialist to handle largely domestic economic issues at Treasury because he has a background in finance. Second, why supporters say that Burger King isn't a classic inversion deal? Okay, so when Burger King moved to Canada in a deal that would lower its taxes, I guess it was an unclassic inversion deal. Got it. But let's be clear. In August and September of this year, more than 2,600 news stories mentioned Burger King in the context of tax inversions. There has been some debate over the details. People disagree about what the exact implications will be for Burger King and whether their taxes will go down a little or go down a lot. But no matter how many Burger King executives line up in the newspapers to say that they had other motives, this is an inversion deal and Mr. Weiss was right in the middle of it. Now, this matters because at the end of the day, the administration undercuts its own opposition to this practice by nominating someone to a high-profile cross... who was involved in a high-profile cross-border inversion and who, by the way, made $15 million in the last two years working for Lazard, a firm that did three of the four major announced inversions. And by the way, Lazard isn't an American company anymore either. It already moved to Bermuda to cut its taxes. Third, and maybe you can help me understand this argument, people say opposition to Mr. Weiss is unreasonable because, wait for it, he likes poetry. I'm actually not kidding on this one. Supposedly, because he helps publish a literary magazine called The Paris Review, we should trust that he will zealously pursue financial reform. Now, I confess, I don't read many literary magazines, but really? If he liked monster truck racing, would that show that he supported Wall Street bailouts? I don't get what his hobby has to do with overseeing consumer protection and domestic regulatory functions at the Treasury Department. So what is this really all about? Why call out the cavalry for a guy whose experience doesn't match the job he's been nominated on? Why circle the wagons around a guy who's picking up $20 million to take on a public service job? It's all about the revolving door. That well-oiled mechanism that sends Wall Street executives to make policies in the government and sends government policy makers straight back to Wall Street. Weiss defenders are all in, loudly defending the revolving door and telling America how lucky we are that Wall Street is willing to run the economy and the government. In fact, Weiss supporters even defend the golden parachutes like the $20 million payment that Weiss will receive from Lazard to take this government job. Why? They say it is an important tool in making sure that Wall Street executives will continue to be willing to run government policy making.  Sheila Baer, a Republican and the former head of the FDIC responded that, quote, only in the wonderland of Wall Street logic could one argue that this looks like anything other than a bribe. End quote. She went on, we want people entering public service because they want to serve the public. Frankly, if they need a $20 million incentive, I'd rather they stay away. Why does the revolving door matter? Well, because it means that too much of the time, the wind just blows from the same direction. Time after time in government, the Wall Street view prevails. And time after time, conflicting views are crowded out. Consider the deregulation of the banking industry in the 1980s and 90s, followed by the no strings attached bailouts in the aftermath of the 2008 financial crisis. And most recently, the anemic efforts to help homeowners who had been systematically cheated by financial giants. The wind always blows in the same direction. The impact of the revolving door can sometimes be subtle. No one likes to ignore phone calls from former colleagues, and no one likes to advance policies that could hurt future employers. Relationships matter.  Take one example. Brown Kauffman was a proposed amendment to the Dodd-Frank Act that would have broken up the nation's largest financial institutions. That amendment might have passed, but it ran into powerful opposition from an alliance between Wall Streeters in government and Wall Streeters still on Wall Street. The hand-in-hand between Treasury officials and Wall Street executives on this was not subtle. A senior Treasury official publicly acknowledged it at the time. The revolving door rips the heart out of public service. Too many people get jobs based on who they know, not what they know. Too many others who might have brought a different perspective to this work had crowded out. I know that there are experienced and innovative people in the financial industry who are qualified for top economic positions in government. Look, when I set up the new Consumer Financial Protection Bureau, I interviewed, I hired, and I worked alongside many people with Wall Street experience, and I was glad to do so. In the Senate, I have voted for plenty of nominees with Wall Street experience, but we need a balance. Not every person who swoops in through the revolving door should be offered a top job without some serious cross-examination. Qualifications matter, and vice doesn't have them. This is about building counter-pressure on the Wall Street bankers. Members of Congress, their staffs and the regulatory agencies are going to hear the Wall Street perspective loud and clear, each and every minute of each and every day. That isn't going to change, but we need a real mix of people in the room when decisions are made. When the President has an opportunity to decide who will be at the financial decision-making table, he should think about who knows the economics of job creation, about community banks and access to financing for small business, about who has the skills and determination to make sure that the biggest banks can't take down our economy again. The titans of Wall Street have succeeded in pushing government policies that made mega-banks rich beyond imagination while leaving working families to struggle from payday to payday. So long as the revolving door keeps spinning, government policies will continue to favor Wall Street over Main Street. I hope you will join me in saying, enough is enough. Thank you. My name is Josh Bivens. I work at the Economic Policy Institute. I want to start first by welcoming people to the event, but also because we wanted to maximize the time for Senator Warren. I'm also going to present not just my own thoughts as a member of this first panel, but also take on kind of the welcome chore of trying to frame why we think the topics being addressed today are so important and are going to be such big questions going forward in the economy. They're important first because the economy is a great recession, and I think the gap between today and what a healthy economy looks like is often underestimated. And so, trying to make this move. Can we get the first slide? Sorry about that. So this is basically just one measure of it. And basically, in terms of employment conditions, my best estimate is that we're probably about halfway recovered from the great recession. This is the share of adults between the ages of 25 and 54 who have a job. Lots of complexity in how you measure some measures of labor market conditions. This is prime age adults. They have really strong labor force attachments. They didn't decide in 2008 to all just take vacations or take an extended time off. They lost their job because of insufficient demand and they've only recovered less than half. And so I think this is just one measure of how much slack remains in the economy. And the issues we'll raise today are important as well because the Fed has been the only macroeconomic policymaking institution that has been consistently and aggressively targeting a return to full recovery pretty much from the minute the great recession began. And in recent years, they faced some really large headwinds from other policymakers' failures, and particularly Congress. And basically our fiscal policy at this point, you know, you've got two tools of macroeconomic stabilization. You have fiscal policy and monetary policy. Fiscal policy at this point in the recovery has been radically different and radically destructive to growth compared to recoveries from pretty much every other post-war recession in U.S. history. Can I get the next slide? Thank you. And to say this really plainly, if federal spending had grown after the great recession along the same trajectory that characterized its growth following the recessions of the early 2000s, the early 1990s, or yes, even the early 1980s when Ronald Reagan was president, if spending since the great recession had just matched those trajectories, we would have hundreds of billions of dollars of additional federal spending today and we would be fully recovered from the great recession hands down. What has kept recovery from happening is the historically different, the historically unprecedented degree of fiscal austerity we've been dealing with. Yes, the Recovery Act in 2009 was hugely important. It broke the back of the recession. It provided for decent growth for about two years after its passage, but with the debt ceiling showdown and the resulting Budget Control Act of 2011, we have throttled spending, and hence economic growth to a degree that people really haven't appreciated enough. No, we haven't embraced sort of Spanish and Greek levels of austerity, but we have embraced austerity that is unprecedented relative to our own economic history. So today monetary policy is the only tool of macro-stabilization that we have going, and it's actually a pretty weak tool when the economy remains sluggish even after six years of conventional short-term interest rates being stuck at zero, something economists sometimes like to call the liquidity trap. But it's important because a weak positive is a lot better than a powerful negative, like from fiscal policy. And also monetary policy is directed by essentially Janet Yellen, not by John Boehner and Mitch McConnell, and so at least we have some chance of evidence providing an input into the decisions being made in that realm, and so that's a big part of what this panel, the panels today are going to be about, insisting that evidence, not vague conventional wisdom, not outdated economic dogma, but evidence be the deciding factor that the Fed makes decisions. There's a course of pretty influential voices, including regional Federal Reserve bank presidents, that have insisting that monetary policy should join fiscal policy in trying to restrain growth in the name of fighting inflationary pressures. And that's, I think, part of what our first panel will talk about. The second panel is going to address sort of a new reason why the Fed should restrain growth. It's you need to restrain growth because we don't believe financial regulation can work and only sort of hurting the overall economy, and keep bubbles from happening. I think the second panel is going to address that really well, so I'm going to focus on the first. Wages have been rising about 2 to 2.3% for the past four years. Nominal wages, not real, not inflation-adjusted. Nominal wages have been rising about 2 to 2.3%. And there's very little evidence of any upturn going on, and so let's put this number in some perspective. Trend productivity growth is about 1.5 to 2%. The Fed's price inflation target is about 2%. I think lots of us think that's too low a target. That's fine. What we'll take it is given for now. Wage growth of 2%, what we're seeing today, combined with trend productivity growth of 2%, puts zero upward pressure on wages. It is consistent with zero inflation. Yes, hourly wages are 2% higher every year, but output per hour rises by 2% every year, so the price per unit of output does not budge. And so basically we're seeing wage growth today and over the past four years is consistent with about zero price inflation. So if the Fed is serious about its 2% inflation target, this means that wages should grow about 3.5%, 4% in trend, almost twice as fast as they're rising today. And further, the share of domestic income going to workers rather than capital owners plummeted in the early stages of this recovery and hasn't recovered at all since. So this means we need a long period of wages going faster than trend to claw back some of that share of national income that workers lost during the early stages of recovery. So nominal wages, price targets, productivity, lots of stuff. We've tried to boil it down in this chart right here that you're seeing. That bottom line, the sort of the squiggly one, that's actual hourly wages and levels. And then the line that goes above it is sort of what these wages would be if they had grown at the 3.5% to 4% wage target that's consistent with the Fed's 2% price level and trend productivity growth and a stable labor share. That cumulative gap between these two lines, this is basically where wages need to be to not only be consistent with 2% inflation and trend productivity, but actually to get back the share of national income that has gone away from wages since the recovery began. You do the math on this, you basically realize we could have 10 years of nominal wage growth of about 4.5% well over double what we're seeing today before we regained pre-great recession and levels of labor share. And so the idea that people are going to look at one month of wage data that's running in the 2 to 2.5% and say, ah, inflation is right around the corner and we need to get ahead of this. Where could this belief possibly be coming from? And so I think that's where I'm mostly going to end. I'm going to say a couple words about where this belief is coming from and it's nowhere useful and it should be changed. Before the crisis of the Great Recession, sort of the more and more macroeconomists signed on to an incorrect consensus that said macro policy should really be about setting a very low inflation target, 1 to 2%. And all you need to do to keep the economy healthy and keep that inflation target is have the Federal Reserve move short-term interest rates a little bit. Some people, sort of older school people who got educated back when we talked about a dual mandate, what about the dual mandate and what about unemployment? Not really a concern. I mean, if you occasionally had to lower interest rates a little bit to get unemployment down, you could do that, but you have to be really careful because inflation is always looking to get its nose under the tent and wages are always looking to just take off. And today's inflation hawks, you'll know, they love metaphors like you have to shoot ahead of the duck and sort of sort of justify in the fact that you say there's no inflation in the data and they go, but it's coming. You have to shoot ahead of the duck. Metaphors are nice, but data and economic reasoning are better. And so our first panel is going to assess this overall policy wisdom about abandoning all tools except short-term interest rates for macroeconomic stability. And I'm just going to end by talking about, I come from someone who lives in the D.C. policy world and thinks way too much short-term day-to-day. And to me, the most important bit that needs reassessment is this idea that wages are always looking to leap ahead of productivity growth and push prices through the roof. And you've got the chart right there. This is real wage growth. This is average annual real wage growth for three periods, 1979 to 1995, 2002 to 2007, 2007 to 2013. The thing to note is that the bottom 70% of wage earners in those 27 years saw zero or outright negative real hourly wage growth in these 27 years. This does not look like irresistible wage pressure. Wage is always looking to surge forward. That's not what that chart looks like to me. If we go to the next chart though, I did leave out a period. I left out the period from 1995 to 2001. This period actually saw across the board wage growth. What was unusual about that period? Well, that was a period where the Fed actually decided to not let economic dogma and economic metaphors about shooting ahead of the duck trumped the data showing that inflation was not happening. And they actually allowed unemployment to go down to 4% for two solid years. And what did we get? Did you remember hearing about the great inflation of the late 1990s? It did not happen. What did happen was across the board wage growth for the first time in a generation. So there's a lot of stake here. But I think what we need to know is that widespread wage growth requires very low rates of unemployment, and the last generation of economic life does not support the idea that the Fed needs to be super vigilant about fighting phantom hypothetical forthcoming inflation pressures. They should actually see them in the data before acting. And we also need to figure out how to not let future recessions do so much damage on the American economy. And with that, I'm going to turn it over to Bob Pollan from the University of Massachusetts Amherst. Bob, this was not working for me. You should give it a try. You need to turn it on. Okay. So this doesn't work. Okay. Okay. Well, thank you very much for inviting me. And I want to talk about Fed policy and thinking more broadly about Fed policy. So Josh made it very clear that we have gotten some good news. Certainly this past week on jobs, but we need to consider these in a broader context. So Josh already gave a good background on considering what's happened in a broader context of wage and employment trends relative to prior to the recession. The other factor in thinking about where we are now and the experience of the Great Recession is to extract some lessons from the Great Recession and enabling us to think more sharply about Fed reserve policy. What I want to try to argue for is to think about using the broader tools that are available to the Fed that were clearly deployed by the Fed in order to bail out Wall Street to think about these tools in a way to achieve a broader and more sustainable recovery. So the first picture there, let's see, can I go over there in point or are we recording? You can do that. There's an aggressive reaction on financial crisis. That is, in 2007 the federal fund rate was at 5.3%, which is quite high, but their aggressive move was to move it down by the end of 2008 to zero, effective to zero, and that's where it stayed. So when we think about the Fed's monetary policy response to the crisis, this is it. This red line is essentially the single most important thing to observe. Now the next thing, though, is the quantitative easing policy through which the Fed was purchasing government bonds to bring down the longer term rates as well as the federal funds rate, and the technique was to buy longer term treasuries. And the impact of that is this blue line. So this is the 5-year treasury bond rate, and you see the treasury bond rate also falls quite sharply, not as sharply as the federal funds rate, because the tool here is the federal funds rate itself, and then on top of that we're overlaying the quantitative easing that the bond purchases. But nevertheless, what we see is very low treasury rates, which is very favorable in terms of government borrowing, because we can borrow the rates. By the way, on this issue of government status and the need for austerity, the facts are that government interest payments on outstanding debtor actually have historic lows, have been in historic lows for the last three years, and that's because the interest rate on the bonds were low. Now the thing I want to focus on though is this line, which is the BAA corporate bond rate. So it is relatively mid-level risk corporate bonds, and this is the key pattern that I want you to see, which is that when the Fed undertakes its super-aggressive policy to pull down the federal funds rate, what initially happens is that the bond rate actually goes up. See, the bond rate actually spikes at 9.2% while the federal funds rate is going to zero. Now this reflects obviously the perception of default risk in the economy in which we're going through a crisis. But the point is picking up on Josh's first observation is that the tool we have used in the most aggressive way that it ever has been which is to push the federal funds rate down to zero initially led to actually an inverse effect with respect to the bond rate and this is the rate that is being in a business space, spikes at 9.2% and the rate between the bond rate and the federal funds rate remains high so that even by mid-2011 the bond rate is at 6.1% which is not much lower than the rate it was in 2007 before the Fed had undertaken any of these policies. So the Fed was running the federal funds rate at 5.3% and we had a 6.6% VAT bond rate so that by mid-2011 when the federal fund rate is at zero we still have an average of 6.5% So what the point is that as aggressively as the Fed actively respect to the federal funds rate its capacity to influence the whole complex of interest rates is limited. This is very important lesson. Now the second pattern that I'm most stressed here is what's happened to credit availability for non-corporate businesses. In the flow funds accounts we don't have data on small businesses per se but we have data on corporate versus non-corporate non-financial businesses. So what I'm showing here is the pattern for this is 2007 so right before the crisis non-corporate borrowing was $514 million overall aggregate and by the middle of the recession it collapses to negative 200 million. So the non-corporate businesses are paying back to the 200 million more than we're taking in at all. Of course the non-corporate business world the small business world remains at the severe slump because they don't have access to credit. Now what we see here is the pace of the recovery. Josh showed an important data with respect to the labor market. These are data with respect to availability of credit for non-corporate borrowers and what we see here even by this the most recent quarterly data was $414 million we're still at $193 million by the way these are on real dollars $2,014 So we're still this is now seven years after the downturn after the crisis started we're still at less than half of the level of credit availability to effectively smaller businesses. Now one of the arguments is of course well of course during the recession the businesses aren't able to borrow and the banks see excessive risk and they don't want to lend. There is some truth to that but there also was significant credit rationing going on and I want to just briefly quote from a study by the Pepperdine School of Business 2011 survey which says that as of 2011 95% of small business owners reported wanting to execute a growth strategy but only 53% were obtaining the funding they needed to execute their strategy at the same time bankers were reporting that they were rejecting 60% of their loan application. This is a 2011 survey now the Fed itself conducts their own surveys every five years and in the 2012 survey the it's called the report to Congress on the availability of credit to small businesses. The results of that survey are effectively the same as the ones from Pepperdine 2011. So the Fed is again conducting a very aggressive policy with one tool the federal funds rate but the tool is not getting credit into the small businesses as you know small businesses are more labor intensive for a dollar of expenditure you're going to get more job by expanding that sector. Now a third critical pattern is that because of the quantitative easing policy through which the Fed was purchasing government bonds from banks and elsewhere what we have is this massive unprecedented increase in cash reserves being held by commercial banks and this 2007 the level of cash reserves held by the commercial banks was $20 billion that's for the whole sector $20 billion and it starts by 2008 it's up to $940 billion by the most current data the current data for the Fed. We're now $2.5 trillion in cash reserves being held by the commercial banks. It's not government bonds these are cash reserves that's 15% of USGED so the approval of 15% of USGED is being held as reserves. Now there's arguments as well this was not a policy tool and just because the banks have reserves doesn't mean the act of land of course they have to see the profit opportunities that's all true they need to have a cushion to standardize themselves when the next infinity crisis is all true but we've got to keep in mind we're talking about 15% of USGED if we locked off 10% of it so that's still $250 billion that's more than half of one year of the entire stimulus program the AERA which was $400 billion a year and what we can do is think about creative ways to channel something equivalent to that level of credit into small businesses into infrastructure activities and the Fed can play a critical role here so to wrap up I just want to remind all of us about the creative things that the Fed did during the crisis focused on damning out industry that were unconventional policy of monetary policy interventions that is they expanded lending facilities to mortgage brokers money market funds and insurance companies so let's think about some creative things that the Fed can do now to channel credit into productive activities into job generating activities and opportunities for small business one which has been proposed by a lot of people is to impose something like an excess reserve tax or a maximum reserve requirement if we call it a maximum reserve requirement the Fed can do that tomorrow they could vote it in tomorrow it's within it's within their mandate and what is the rate in which they need to do that in order to start channeling funds out of this excess level of reserves I don't know what that level is but you start imposing it and you see what the response is and you see the extent to it you're able to shift incentives now what would we do with those funds and one thing we can think about ways to subsidize credit back into small businesses as we see seven years after the crisis the level of credit for small businesses is less than half seven years after the crisis the level of credit for small businesses is less than half we can do that through we can set up a facility through our existing policy framework the small business administration we can expand low guarantee you have as it is you have about $150 billion about spending low guarantees to small businesses the small business administration and the export import bank you could double that if you double that and you make some very plausible assumptions about default rates I can go through if you want but the basic point is you're going to impact the federal budget by like one quarter of one percent now some other things that the Fed could do that I would wrap up the Fed can expand a Article 14 of the Federal Reserve Act can make direct loans to municipalities now they can only do short term loans but they can make loans they can buy municipal bonds now Fed could buy municipal bonds now and municipalities can set up facilities for small businesses in their community or they can support infrastructure projects that channel credit jobs into communities and I'll add just one anecdote I was involved in 2010 at a conference at the Federal Reserve Bank of Cleveland on green recovery at the Federal Reserve Bank of Cleveland and we talked about ways to which you can start stimulating investment in green economy in Cleveland and then the Fed and this guy by then came up the Fed has the power to pursue this they didn't they have it but they can't so there's a lot of opportunity there the funds are available we need more powerful tools we need the Fed to be aggressive not just in supporting Wall Street and filling out Wall Street but channeling credit hi can I get my slides up here so as Josh said the immediate danger the immediate problem we face in debates about macroeconomic policy I forgot to put my name on the top slide I'm Josh Mason J. W. Mason of John J. College and the Roosevelt Institute Financialization Project as Josh said the immediate danger that we face in sort of the debates about macroeconomic policy is this pressure to move towards contractionary policy too soon this sort of desperate flailing around for excuses to shift towards more higher interest rates or other forms of contractionary policy this sort of frantic search for evidence overheating in an economy that really quite evidently still has an enormous amount of slack left and this sort of effort is basically the one that Josh mentioned which has been getting more attention lately is the notion that we need tighter monetary policy as a tool for stabilizing the financial system as a tool for preventing future asset bubbles I think Elizabeth Warren is absolutely right Senator Warren is absolutely right that this Fed has the tools already to limit the kind of irresponsible lending that fuels bubbles without the need to raise interest rates in a way that could be destructed and people will be talking I think about some of those tools but I think also if you take a step back and you think about


To why in the morning if it's Tuesday it's entrepreneurship Tuesday or why to for for channel is where you can find us across all our social media handles at Michelle Ashira is where you can find me across all my social in this particular session We dive into an interview that looks at I am not sure if it's up and for me because having a conversation with my guest It has brought it up to also interior decor So if we'll come and will them say when you when you look at your kitchen and do like apane I can plant some vegetables. I can plant some plants, you know kitchen gardens This is a conversation for you. So stick around because we have so much information coming your way. So in the studio I am joined by Njoki Kamau and She's a plant enthusiast definitely that I'm not sure you and she's also the founder of alpha plants. Thank you very much Njoki for creating time to be with us. Thank you. Happy Tuesday. Happy Tuesday Michelle. How are you feeling this morning? I'm happy. I'm happy. It is raining You know rain for our plants and this is a blessing all the way. So I'm very happy It's very good weather to grow things now and most so happy that I'm here. Thank you for this opportunity I'm looking forward to having a great session. You're very much welcome. Thank you.  Njoki Kamau is first of all I'm a mother of two a boy and a girl and I'm also a wife and I am an accountant and a teacher Then above all those are more so a plant enthusiast I developed interest for plants when I was very young. I was born in in the village in Muranga I come from a place called Ishii So in there my parents were farmers so they raised us from farming they paid our school fees and everything from farming And so I got the basics of farming from that and I developed an interest in that just normal normal growing of things and I think as a person it was there was also Natural liking for plants because I remember when I was five years old I had a small garden and one time my dad had grown cabbages in the off field, but mine did well so I sold to him and Even if he paid me one ball, it was a big thing The only one within my siblings that had money. So yeah, so growing things has been within me and in me The other thing is that I went to school. I went to Mugwede Girls High School and From that I went to Strathmore school. I did accounting and after that I joined the University of Nairobi and took education so I have a bachelor's degree in education Thank you for that brief background now from the point about your passionate about plants Definitely. So how did that transition to you studying a whole business around it? Yes So what happened immediately after school?  So I got a job as an accountant and I was very happy. I was I was working and still I am with a very great organization and But I did not have much time to To to practice my hobby for business. So within me I kept feeling like I would do something else that gratifies me So COVID came and we had a bit more of time on our hands And it was time for me to sit back and think of what else can I do? Probably supplement my income because at the time of COVID we had pay cuts. We were at home We had much more time. So I did a lot of thinking a lot of Trying to figure out what I could do. I knew I loved plants. I knew I loved everything about plants, but I Couldn't really point at what pointed ways that so what I did I Went on researching on what are people doing around gardening one I realized that people were now embracing gardening people are now conscious of their health and people are now Loving the idea of having a plant and being at home. Everyone else being at home. They were starting to notice Oh, this place needs something. Yes, yes, especially when you're in your house Yes, I need a free particular space. We can add something there Yes, in fact, if I could tell you about my first client my first client told me that they just created their home office And they realized that from where they got they you know, they were moving funny They were not buying new furniture. They were moving at it. They were converting a table into an office So they realized that space that they moved the table from needed something So that she asked me what what would I put here? Do I put a wall hanging up an art or something? I told her plant and that's that that happened to be my very very first client. So yeah really It was about it was about Just growing something and There's so much in in order there's so much within me about, you know Putting a seed down into the soil and it comes out and it's food or it's a beautiful flower or it's It's it's a tree or you mean it's a fruit tree. Yeah. Yes You feel very very fulfilled and even sometimes when you even do it for business You realize that the gratification is not even in the money the gratification is in That achievement of this food this food and it's healthy food. So and you go to grow that Yeah, totally organic and also environmental friendly. Yes. All right. So from the point where you've done your market research What you get what guys doing the same industry when it comes to plants and everything so What did you decide to settle on? So what does alpha plant deal with? Yes alpha plants Alpha plants is a business venture. So when I did my research, I realized I could do first of all I wanted a business that Wouldn't take So so much of my time on the ground because remember I was still employed and I did not want to cheat my employer Maybe with time I would transition at that point. This was my thinking with time out Transition into the business, but I wanted something that I could do and not take up take up so much of my time That was number one and two. I wanted an authentic idea. So what I did is I Sat down and decided to divide it into three three arms. So alpha plant has three arms There's an arm of landscaping, which is quite technical. This the biggest of them, which is the urban kitchen Gardening Which which which we do organic foods and there is the indoor plants Which we we do for homesteads, you know in in the in within the living spaces in the homesteads and in Coprics in the offices in the office spaces. So with The biggest arm of it, which is now the urban kitchen gardens. This is where we Install we come up with a setup Like when we come when you when you contact us the first thing we do we come for a site visit We want to see the space that you have and then from that we are able to design Something for a garden out of it. It may even be on concrete. It may be on your balcony on your rooftop It may be on your backyard or even a small shamba somewhere that you have So with that we'll be able to design what what what suits your needs We also have a conversation with you to understand what exactly do you want do you want food? For just for household consumption. Do you want I have I have people who've come to me because they want to Be a bit more to adopt a bit more of a healthy lifestyle They want herbs they want spices they want to lose weight. They want to check on what they eat So we will when we understand that we are able to design for you the garden plastic the plants that you need So we will be doing if it's vegetables and we really recommend that you consider taking the traditional Vegetables so we'll be planting for you managus Terraris spinach, of course Kale's Some we have been done in the rema. I don't know if I don't know what the English word It's the traditional Traditional vegetable so anything can be planted on your own your kitchen garden because I think like most question will be like Can I really plant anything that I want in my kitchen garden? Yes. Yes, anything basically? Yes I don't see what yes, but we'll also consider the environment the where you are at We will also look at the aesthetics of it. So we want to create a really beautiful something is a kick garden that Will not mean to you that will not mean to you mess will not mean to you all those things so it will be very well done and neat and organized and also it will Even the way we arrange the crops on the garden is going to be very very nice and very attractive Okay, but yes, basically everything you know that As you're talking and you being passionate about plants and bringing out a business out of it Someone who's watching this conversation and they also into this space where they love the you know Urban farming also in comes to plants and they want to get to jump into this that sort kind of business but they don't know how to go about the aspect of just Understanding the like the skills dynamics when it comes to plants arrangement the layout. So how do you how did you get your skills on that? Well, yeah First of all, I'm quite a statistic naturally. I'm artistic number two. I did a lot of reading and a lot of research I wanted to understand which which which crop goes with what which plant goes together with which What can you plant as companion plants? What so what what does well where what are the environments for this type of plant like I can I could tell you my The guest was here before me. Yes She told us that Cales grow almost anywhere, you know Yes, there are those that grow almost anywhere and there are those that You really have to research and find out and even some create a condition for them Like put up nets or a small sort of greenhouse for them to do very well so had to do a lot of research around that and That is what I would recommend have the knowledge knowledge is there in fact It's the biggest asset for this business the knowledge and the skill and that you have to learn And unfortunately, we do not probably have so much time to go to school and learn and sometimes even with the school You don't really get There's a gap between what you learn and what you get on the ground So the best thing is do the research do a lot of self-teaching go to the ground and see what is what is happening Try to grow something somewhere, you know, what you're interested in try to grow it and see how it does observe Just empower yourself with as much knowledge as possible also Speak to people who are in the business or people who are doing the same thing as you are aspiring and They'll be able to guide you. They'll be able to I was lucky to meet Fantastic people who introduced me into business who are mentoring me who are telling me don't do this do a don't do be and Really knowledge is everything and for me it was investing in that knowledge that the business is Propelling I mean we're starting off when it comes to capital How did you go about that and do you start as a as a sole proprietor? Did you have like a team? Okay The question of capital in fact, I was thinking about my wow the capital here Is almost zero. It's really almost zero what what what you need and What you need really is the knowledge that's number one when you have the knowledge Number two and for me how I started or other my business model was more into I looked at where I was at And I wanted to work with what I had And what I had was not money, but the the passion and and Some space in my home. So that is where I started and that's what I had so in terms of capital I Invested in Relationship networking with people who are in the business and who would partner with me Like I told you I do landscaping landscaping is quite technical and quite artistic and it's a whole It's a whole scope on its own So for me to be able to achieve on landscaping I I needed I sat down and listed what I needed and what I needed was one I needed nurseries that I could partner with that would give me Flowers and plants and trees and all those things that come with it. That's that was number one number two I needed A nursery that was doing organic Foods that I could get the seedlings from that was number two and number three and he did people who are making flower pots and and of different types and And and and I partnered with all those people I went around looking for them and God was gracious with me He gave me very very good people fantastic people who are willing to support my dream and we partnered and that's how I started So for me I did not invest like a hundred thousand or fifty thousand I just started by social capital that's social capital and then I now did Social media marketing. I remember with that that my first client the one I told you we did a plant for so she told me When we did when I recommended she told me go find a plant that is that will suit and she told me don't mind about the budget So I went and looked for the best the best pot and the best plant and we put it in that space We took a photo and I posted it. I sent it to my friend and told them look this is what I'm doing I'm now alpha plans. This is what I'm doing and that brought business So that was the beginning and with that client. She paid me a deposit So really I did not invest money in terms of capital but I did in a lot of investment in terms of researching and getting the knowledge and Getting the social capital. Yeah, right when it comes to having proper or increase in yields like at the end of the day and What a couple of measures that you take To increase yield yes, I know looking at the aspect of also reducing on expenditure. Okay. Yeah, okay. Yes so what I have done is the My business works best when I look at the economies of scale when I buy more I get bigger discounts when I buy more of So what I do I do a lot of marketing Yeah, I do a lot of marketing and I need I understand that I need to be buying like a wholesale buyer from my Partners who are now the Nasser is for me to be able to get bigger discounts and and that reduces the cost Even for my pricing of the product as I do the landscaping for a client Or as I do the kitchen gardens or as I supply the indoor plants So meaning that because I'm buying in bulk I get a better discount and I am able to sell Competitively to my clients. So there's no middleman. No It's just me and my partner and the client. Okay. Yeah, and and sometimes It's such a model. It's such a beautiful model for me that I'm even able to compete with my my own partner sometimes because they give me We are able to work out those discounts and my clients are also happy The other aspect that I'd like to mention, please do. Yeah of this is that With my model, I'm able to get the best, you know, because because I'm not restricted to one Nasserie that I get plans from you see if I started a Nasserie for myself today for plants I would have to sell my plants whether they are good or bad, but now I go out to the market I will buy the best spinach Spinach seedlings. I'll buy the best Palm trees if I'm doing landscaping. I'll buy the best grass if I'm doing When I'm doing landscaping I'll buy the best indoor plants because I have the opportunity the chance to choose from my my social capital the networks that I've created so that also Works for me on the upside because I'm able to give you the best competitively and And I do not have to incur so much in No setting up the the base the behind the back end And when it comes to for someone wants to get into this particular business when it's or even urban farming in general so what a couple of steps when it comes to you know proper planning and looking Setting up proper planning and just having the proper projection before you actually even embark when Putting your seed on the ground when you talk about probably the kitchen garden in this case. Yeah Well the proper planning and especially for the kitchen garden number one is to understand Your client needs. Yeah, they want food just for the household. Do they want some health? You need to understand what what they have number two You ask for someone who would want to start this they need to be passionate about it and number three They need to understand the benefits or they need to understand the plants. They need to know what does other than Feeling your stomach. What does what does a spinach do to your health? What does a mint do to your health? So they need to understand those health benefits For any plant for a kitchen garden. So that way they're able to to put up a Solution that suits their client needs That's that's and that that's really boils down to learning to investing in knowledge and a lot of research So that they understand and they meet that need. So that's then the step number one number two in the into the planning they need to have the source of authentic and organic products seedlings in this case or seeds they need to have that and it's very very important that They research or they invest in that because if you're not if you're if you're getting it wrong at the seed level You're getting it wrong all the way So you have to get it right at the seed level and the other thing is in in The budgeting for the project so they need to to budget for the project and know how to do the quotations So that they are not overcharging undercharging and all that and they need to stick to that so that they're able to deliver on the project And lastly they need to be very professional When we are when we are doing you realize that there's a difference. There's a difference in There's a difference in the way we at the urban setup look at Want to be treated rather want to you know days away And and there's a there's really a difference. They need to be very professional They need to provide a professional service and they need to be also to to be ready to follow up with those gardens They need to be able it's not just about putting a seat down You need to be able to see that seat to the point of harvesting Yeah, so they need to provision for that even in their planning that yes I've set up a garden for Michelle next week I'll be going to visit the garden to see what it needs or it is okay or whether she needs to add something You know in another three weeks I still need to have to go back from especially for me when I set up a kitchen garden I will make sure I visit you at least Four times and the first the fourth time we will be happy. Oh, you guys all for maintenance. Yes We do maintenance and and and we do it for free. It's in the passion. Yeah, so we will visit We will we will we will Advise we will help as much as we can and for me I look forward to the first harvest So I will come to we do the first harvest together together. Yeah Usually like a celebration. Oh, yeah, and mostly seen about for four weeks five weeks Yeah, and I feel like this composition breaks a lot of misconception when it comes to farming because people think like, you know It's just putting the seeder and just watering it Hail and wait for the harvest but there's a lot of Thought through the process that you have to put in planning and just projecting your produce and everything so let's look at When it comes to just the indoors planting, I feel like it's an interior decor now You're going in a sort of an interior decor setup So what is that what a couple of the right plants and how do you go about it? Yes? How we go about it with the interior The indoor plants and this one you you need to have An artistic mind to some extent and also understand the plants and their needs so their plants Or rather how we go about it is we look at the space and We look at their factors that come into play like the the level of lighting The accessibility to sunlight so some plants will do better near a window A window others will do better at a balcony others will be okay in the dark Others will be okay better in the bathroom because there's moisture so for us we look at the environment the in the space and some of the plants that really like we have funds fun The plant called funds they do very well in the bathrooms as long as they can access some lighting We have a plant called snake plant that will survive anywhere in the house And it's very it's one of the leading air purifiers Okay, so it's so really even in the bedroom. You're okay anywhere And there's the most common of them all which is the money plant the one that claims Yeah, so that one will also do with the minimal lighting and in the house as long as you give them the right nutrients So what I do with my plants especially the indoor plants and I also do this with the kitchen garden I plant all my plants with composts the medium is not soil. It's compost that the compost is Decompost organic matter so when you put together All the cuttings from the forest and anywhere you put them together they decompose and they become very healthy Medium for planting any plant. I like the fact that apart from just creating beautiful spaces They come with the brings out the beautiful the smell the scent. Yes. So, yeah So, let's look at When it comes to just branding and making you making you actually Be quite different out here in the market space or a couple of things that you do What separates you from the rest? Okay? Yeah Number one I do a lot of social media marketing Lately I have I have found a lot of referral referrals to as I think as the business grows I'm getting a lot of I was referred by so-and-so who you did this and this and And that that is seeming to also be working But what I have invested in is social media marketing So what I do is I create content content by the day for my social media pages So anything I do is it delivery me I'll take a photo of my pick up with the plants inside and I'll post on and then Somebody will somebody else out there will be like. Oh, you also do deliveries. Yes I Have I have set up a place within my home where I when I prepare the small small plants We call them succulents in some small beautiful pots. You'll find them on my page Where I take photos from so there I have a camera I do and I set up and I take photos and then I post them on my social media platform So really the marketing is on social media The referrals is now coming up as the business grows All right, and how's the COVID-19 affected their demanding supply when it comes to this particular business? Hmm I must say Include also the lockdown the lockdown Yeah, yeah It's interesting. It's interesting that This business came up at a time when people needed it as much as People were Stained on their cash flows and everything They were willing to spend on plants. I mean it's the thing that they were doing at the time They were at home. Yeah, I'm on your hands. Yes Looking at your space Yes, yes, people people will tell you, you know, I've never really thought that this corner would give me some spinach Can we do something? Yeah, because that it it was that it was the right opportunity for them. However with the third wave We are experiencing a bit of Holding back because and I think it really it's because people are on a wait and see They they're not sure what what's going to happen next. So in terms of spending So you'll find that there are a lot of enquiries coming in. Can I do a can I do B? Can I you know? but let me wait and see if My employer will say that we are now closing again or if they're not sure this so there's a level of Uncertainty since last week which I have observed but it's not to mean that we will not be in business I believe we've been in business. We will continue. However little however much we will continue I know what a couple of measures that you've taken to just make sure that the business is sustainable during this time during this time Yes, some of the of the measures that I have taken One is I have a plan. I have a business continuity plan in place and that is One I Like I told you the sauce the sauce I Have ensured that me and my that network For the nurseries where I get my plants. We are operating we're operating. They are my partners and we are operating We're in operation and things are continuing. We have also reduced on Some of the expenses that we could reduce on so We we are more into conserving energy Conserving the waters conserving how we spend so that we ensure that we learn we run the business a little longer and also the other thing that we've done to ensure that We are continuing is that we continue to market we continue to make plans to be on the faces of our client and tell them That we we are here We are doing it and we are doing a bit more of Supporting the clients that are already within our portfolio so that because we have a bit more of time now we in terms of Like I told you the business is slowing down because of the uncertainty. So those that were already with us We are doing a lot of supporting we've been running A program where we are doing crop rotation for free So if you had a garden with us kitchen garden with us and you have probably you're now tired of your spinach We will be coming and planting something else for free. Oh nice very nice interesting All right couple of financial lessons that you've learned along the way this journey. It's financial. Sorry financial lessons lessons. Yes I'm an accountant so I Account for every coin that comes in but as the accountant I am I also made Miss a few mistakes when I was starting because I would get excited when the money comes and probably spend Spend it in the business spend it in the business without a plan like I would go into a shop and find this nice Sports and buy all of them without a plan. So I have learned that every expenditure for me has to have a plan I had I need to see the whole It has to fall within the strategy. I have a full business strategy So it has to fall within the strategy if it's not within however beautiful. It's not happening. We're not doing impulse buying Yeah, we're not doing impulse buying and for me because of My passion is so strong. It's so strong within me So I could be Walking around and walking in someone's nursery and I find beautiful plants and I buy them. So for me I It's I have had to learn the discipline to say it's not now. Yes. I have seen you have it When I get a client I'll buy it not now So before then I would just buy for my home and then it's excessive. I don't have space You know, yeah, so I've learned the discipline of weights. Okay. All right So the vision how is the vision looking like a couple of years down the road? Yes the vision is To have sustainable guidance within the urban space if I can meet Even 50% of the market. I'll be very happy because one it means