Good morning and welcome to the Digital Supply Chain Institute's eighth blockchain Collaboratory. Thank you all for joining in whatever time zone you're in. Good morning, good afternoon, good evening. I'm Sean Muema. I am the Technology Research Leader for the Digital Supply Chain Institute and I'll be the moderator for today's meeting. We hold these sessions periodically to inform our members on current technology trends and have recently focused on the enablement of enterprise blockchain networks, which is the focus of our discussion today. And we'll focus in on the the EU General Data Protection Regulation and its impact on on blockchain when using it as a enterprise workflow automation tool. So again thank you for joining and as we get started here let me turn it over to George Bailey, the managing director for the Digital Supply Chain Institute. George? Yeah thank you Sean and welcome everybody to this meeting and I'll just see a few things to explain a little bit about the organization that we're part of. Not all of you are members of the Digital Supply Chain Institute but I think all of you will be interested to know about what we do and how we do it. And we are, as it says on the slide, a leading edge research institute that's focused on where digital supply chains are headed, where they're going. And I think there's three things that make us especially different from any other organization out there today. The first thing is the quality of our membership. We have a whole set of leading edge companies, great companies from around the world who are part of the Digital Supply Chain Institute. And in all cases it's the very top of the house that represent their company. So we have for example Colgate Pomalov, a fabulous company, and their head of supply chain is a member and their CIO is also a member and participate heavily in all of our work. Same thing is true for Dell and SAP and so forth and so on. So we're really lucky to have high-quality membership, not just the companies but also the people who represent those companies. And it's a mix of large companies from around the world but also some leading edge and innovative new companies. So for example in Chile we have a company called Anastasia, or Anastasia, and you know their founder and leader is on the call with us today. So large and small companies, great companies, high quality. Second thing that makes us different is the kind of work that we do. We do applied research. We do work about what does it take to really get the benefit of a truly digital supply chain and how to make sure that's executed as rapidly as possible. And you know our founder is Sam Pomazana who was the CEO and chairman of IBM and he makes sure that whatever we do is not theoretical but applied. Something that can be done, implemented, executed, and result in superior financial return. So it's the quality of the research. And the final thing I'll mention that makes us different is we have the really high quality meetings around the world that bring people together to share ideas and learn from each other. So and this is a big asset. So we had one recently in Santiago. We had one before that in Waldorf. We are going to have one this year in Belgrade and another one in Dallas. And in each case these meetings are sponsored by a leading company and also held in a venue that's really special. So we generally have about 100 or so top executives attend and the idea sharing that goes on is simply extraordinary. And the amount of networking that happens as a result of those meetings is also extraordinarily positive. So those are the three things that make us different than other organizations. And we've been focused on the things that really help a supply chain be successful. So for example, algorithms. But the one we're talking about today is a very special supply chain using blockchain. And this is something that's 2016 we've highlighted. We said, you know what? Supply chains really could use the value out of a blockchain system. Now what we know is not true. But on the other hand, when you apply it correctly, you can get substantial gains. So we have one member company that we work with extensively who achieved 33% reduction in cycle time, 30% improvement in productivity, meaning less cost and 11% improvement in quality. So that's really a breakthrough result that happened because blockchain just worked that well. So you're here, the panelist they talking about how that happens. And you're also going to hear about how you need to do blockchain in the right place, but also taking into account the legislative environment that we that we live in around the world. And that's going to be a big focus of this discussion. So, Sean, I'll turn it back to you now. Thanks. Thanks. Thank you, George. We're going to focus in today on on the paper that we wrote on on blockchain and in GDPR. We wrote it in conjunction with with Slaughter and May and Kravaz, Swain and more. We have partners from those organizations with us today that they will take us through the research in the findings. The papers are there's two versions of them. First, the long paper, the full version is March of the blocks. And then and then there is a shorter version called the right to be forgotten meets the immutable talking about the fact that once you write to blockchain, it's it's immutable. So how does that intersect with with the data privacy regulation? Those papers are both available on our website. In addition, the longer paper, March of the blocks is available on page tiger. Please download those read them, you'll find them find them interesting. So with us today, authors of the of the paper Rob Sumroy from slaughter and may he is a data protection expert, one of the foremost in his field. So he will lead the conversation, the paper and Dave Capos will support him, who is one of the foremost, foremost attorneys in IP. Dave ran the US PTO patent and trademark office for for a number of years as assistant secretary of commerce. Unfortunately, Jody Clayworth was going to join us today. He is the founder of Marine Transport International. And we used MTI as as the example within within the paper. Jody unfortunately had a medical emergency today in in can't make it.  Next slide please. What we'll do is is we'll walk through I'll tell you a little bit about MTI. Talk talk a lot about the paper, and then then wrap it up with a little roundtable discussion before you open up to to questions. So a little background on MTI, which, which I mentioned, we used as as as the example throughout the paper, MTI is specializes in blockchain for the shipping industry. Jody and his team have have been in the shipping industry for for 20 plus years. And they have formed a have developed a blockchain, they call it an adapter that sits between systems of records such as SAP and the in the blockchain database architecture. So this this has enabled MTI to to then develop pilots with with the Port of Rotterdam and also Hall in the UK. And in they have formed a close working relationship now with Her Majesty's revenue and customs as which is exciting times, of course, with with Brexit. Jody approached us probably about six months ago, said, gee, you know, I understand shipping, I understand technology, I understand blockchain. But but people are asking me about GDPR compliance, and I don't understand that so well. Can you help us? So we we kicked into gear, talk to talk to Dave and Rob. And we said this is a interesting subject for us. There's nothing out there today that that provides guidance on the issue. In fact, there was very little at the time about GDPR compliance in general. We got together and and wrote the paper that we'll we'll talk about today. Next slide please. Rob, if you'd like to pick it up. Sure. Thank you, Sean. So yeah, it's a pleasure to be presenting here on this. I would say this slide and the next one, they're both overview slides. The first one is an overview on blockchain and the second one is an overview on GDPR. And the challenge to summarize blockchain in a page or GDPR in a page pages is always a bit of a tasty challenge. But let's give it a go. I think we're assuming that most of the people who are listening in on and watching on this webinar will have some idea about blockchain and distributed ledgers. So we're neither going to go back to the beginning, nor are we going to go very deep into technical explanation, because of the time. But what we're trying to do here is describe some of the facets of blockchain and distributed ledgers that are relevant to the question as to whether this technology can comply with the privacy requirements around GDPR. So you know, one thing we know about blockchain, the I'd say one of the great things about the technology is that it's each block in the chain is a measure. It's a collection of data. And the each block then also contains a hash of that data. And every time you add a new piece of data on a new block on it not only has all of the information from that block, but it will also contain all of the hashes of all of the previous of the previous block. And so in that way, it becomes a chain. And it also means therefore that if you make any change to any block along the chain, it will not be consistent with the hash of that block. And that's what breaks the chain. So when people say the blockchain is immutable, what we really mean by it is it's an absolute verifiable record of the truth. And it is very easy to see where it's been tampered with. That's what blockchain is. Why is it useful for people like MTI, we're going to come and look at their case study in a minute, but it works very well as a technology to do distributed ledgers. Now, distributed ledger is exactly what it says on the tin. It's a ledger. So it's a record of data which is distributed. In other words, it's not just in one place. There isn't one official record of data which is controlled by a party or a person or an appointed custodian, but rather the network of nodes or the network of participants, everybody on that network has their own copy of the ledger. And because it uses blockchain technology, each one can on a consensus basis check that it says the same as everybody else's. And as long as the majority of people in that network have a record that says the same thing, that is the verifiable truth. And that's basically how blockchain distributed ledgers work. And as you can see from this slide, it uses powerful encryption technology, which means people can control what they put up there. And there's a lot of an ability to keep things private on the chain and to control it, make sure it's not tampered with. It's an add only ledger, a bit like bank ledger. So once something's on there, it's never taken off. It's just you add to it. The two sides of the ledger will always add up to each other. And the final thing I'll say in the overview is that there are many flavors and styles of blockchain, but two distinctions it's worth thinking about certainly from the GDPR compliance perspective, whether a blockchain is public or private, on the one hand, and whether it's permissionless or permissioned. So just to very briefly explain that, as it says, as you would expect by the words, a public blockchain is one where anybody can join, there are no rules, anybody who's got anybody who downloads the software and basically download the blockchain and keep a record. And as long as they've got sufficient processing power, then they can be part of the blockchain. Whereas a private one is a club, and you have to join it, you have to be given permission to join there are rules and governance around it. And then permissionless versus permissions. Well, again, it's a similar thing, but permissionless means anybody can add to the blockchain, anybody can add any transactions, anybody can add any data, whereas permissioned, it's controlled by the rules of that by that distributive ledger. And so although people talk in very general terms about blockchain, it is important to think about whether something is a truly public blockchain in the very broad philosophical sense or more private, and whether it's permissionless or permissioned. So I think Sean, I mean, I'm very interested for you or for David to add in anything in terms of the overview, but from our perspective, those are the factors of blockchain technology that make it an interesting case study for GDPR. Yeah, yeah, right, Rob Dave here and and thanks, that's a great summary. I would just add a couple points, scoping out and taking a look at the big pictures, you know, as Rob has explained, blockchain is a powerful technology and you know, and it truly adds to what information technology can do for business. If you scope up a bit and just, you know, ask the sort of the really big picture question, what does blockchain do, you know, sort of on the level of the internet, the internet enables people anywhere in the world to get access to information, and and now business processes put in place and promulgated by others. And the blockchain for its part in the concept of blockchain at its highest level is really about trust. And this is why you're going to see in a minute how how it works so well in an application like MTIs. But but blockchain fundamentally, you know, because of the aspects that Rob explained, enables people who don't know each other to gain trust in one another and businesses that don't know each other to trust one another and people who don't know businesses and people and businesses who don't know people to nevertheless, trust them. It also fundamentally changes the nature of the way we look at systems, databases and information technology, because it enables us to reimagine what had historically been centralized systems by definition, because we needed one trusted source for information, whether it was the government or a single business or whatever, to reimagine those centralized systems as distributed systems where there's no single point of trust, but trust comes from the ability for all the participants to look at and verify what all the other participants are doing. So I'll stop there. But I just thought I'd add those sort of big picture points and back over to you, Rob. Thank you. That's great. And Sean, I think we can move on to the next slide, because now we're going to have a look at an overview of GDPR before we then tie them together to answer the critical question that NTI were asking us, which is, can you have compliant GDPR compliant blockchain? So again, I'm sure many people on the webinar and listening in will have heard of GDPR. It stands for the General Data Protection Regulation. It's an EU regulation. So it's a law which applies to the in the EU member states. It became effective in the middle of 2018. So as you can see, we are very close to the first anniversary. I would say it's still very much new law. So what I mean by that is guidance from the national and cross European regulatory bodies are still coming out. Just by way of example, and I suppose by coincidence for this webinar, only yesterday, we had the 10th plenary session of the European Data Protection Board, which is the groupings of European regulators, who whose job it is to ensure the implementation of GDPR in their national territories. And on the agenda for the discussion of the 10th plenary was blockchain. We have got hold of the minutes from it. But actually there's nothing written at all on that agenda item. So either they didn't discuss it. I don't know if anybody on this webinar was attending the plenary session and can feed in some information, but either it wasn't discussed or nobody's written the minutes up yet. But it just goes to show that it's it's when we're talking about can you be compliant with GDPR when you're implementing a blockchain solution, that would be an interesting question if the law and the guidance was settled. But it's still a very moving feast. It's not just relevant in the EU, which I think is an important point. The regulation has, in effect, cross territory jurisdictional reach. It is relevant to the processing of personal data or data about living individuals. It's relevant if that processing is in connection with an establishment in the EA. So obviously, lots of processing relevant to EA establishments can go on outside of Europe. It also applies if an entity is established outside of the EA, but they're offering services for sale or monitoring individuals in the EA. So it does have quite a broad reach. The other reason why I think the question is relevant on a global basis and not just on a European basis is because there are new data privacy regulations throughout the world. We're seeing states and Dave Kapos can talk to this much better than I did. I can have state laws and possible federal laws in the US, but also in Asia and across other parts of the world in in Australasia as well. And whilst they're not all the same as GDPR, a number of the principles and concepts that we see in GDPR are now common to a number of laws. So I think this question that CGE has has raised is a really important one, which is how can we make sure we are able to implement blockchain and still protect people's privacy rights? So let's look at some of those principles of GDPR as they might apply to a blockchain solution. I think GDPR in itself represents quite a significant shift for data privacy, certainly within Europe, because it's introduced a concept of a fundamental right of an individual to control what is done with that person's data. So in other words, data privacy and compliance can no longer be a bit of an afterthought. So we can't have MTI implementing a blockchain solution. And then as an afterthought thinking, oh, how do we get our lawyers to tell us that this can be compliant? They actually need to be designing the compliance with privacy regulation right in at the beginning. And this privacy by design principle, which comes out of Article 25 of the GDPR is really intended to change organisational attitudes towards the protection of personal data to try and make it a pervasive issue that's considered by all organisations as business as usual. So MTI would good to ask the question, I think is one thing. But there are some other principles which it's worth as considering. For example, the person processing individuals data should only do it for the purposes that they have obtained that data. So it's this principle called purpose limitation. And so if you have a blockchain solution, which maybe can be used for various purposes, you have to always be engaging with the individuals whose data you're doing to make sure that those purposes are still consistent with the reason they gave you the data. There's another key principle around minimisation. It's this idea that you should only process data to the maximum extent net or the minimum extent necessary, I should say, to achieve your legitimate aims. So a lot of new technology in the digital world, not just blockchain, but AI and other types of new technology gets a lot of benefit from maximising the processing of data. And that seems to be at odds with this principle around minimisation. There's also a key principle around individuals, so called data subject to the data belongs to having certain rights. And we're going to look at those in more detail in this webinar, but things like the right to know what data you have on them and understand what you're doing with it, the right to access that data, the right to rectify it if it's inaccurate, and in some cases, the right to have it erased, the so-called right to be forgotten. And then the final principle, which I'm going to talk about is the fact that data, sort of a localisation element, that data needs to be kept within the EEA, unless either it's going to a territory where there are adequate protections and those are decided by the EU regulators, or the various people exporting the data outside Europe and importing it into non-European countries have entered into the requisite contractual arrangements. And so there's quite a process driven administrative element to data leaving Europe. And when you have a global solution, which blockchain often is, that can raise issues. The final thing I will say is that the regulators, like I mentioned, the European Data Protection Board and some of the national regulators are focusing very clearly on new technologies, things like blockchain, these are where personal rights are seen most to be at risk, where individuals are perhaps least likely to understand what's happening to their data, and what the impact of them giving you their data is going to be. And so, for example, they require what are called data protection impact assessments to be carried out by people processing data. And so very much in the blockchain solution environment, you would expect people to be implementing these DPIAs, these impact assessments to really understand what the impact is on the individual before setting up a technology. David, I don't know if you want to add anything around general GDPR overview. I've left the harsh penalties bit for you to underline. Yeah, thanks, Rob. I'll come back to that. Indeed, harsh penalties, as we're seeing from a few of the early investigations that have occurred, going after companies that are that collect and process a lot of personal information in Europe. In some cases, American based companies, but companies, you know, think Facebook as an example, Google as another example that do lots of business in the EU and collect lots of data there. And as Rob was alluding, the fines are up to 4% of annual turn. So they can be very serious. You're just a couple of other comments that I'll add again on the kind of big picture level. As Rob mentioned, the GDPR applies not just to European companies and people, but really anyone who's doing, broadly speaking, doing business in Europe. And that means it really applies globally, and it applies to any any company with a global business. What I'm seeing as a US based lawyer, when I advise US based client is that as I asked them a few questions, even if they don't initially think that they need to pay attention to the GDPR, we almost always find that they do. So think of GDPR very broadly. We may talk later about other as Rob alluded to similar legislation in other places, but we come back to that later. One other comment that I'd add is that as Rob mentioned, there are these rights in the GDPR, the so-called right to be forgotten, which as Rob mentioned is a qualified right, meaning it's not absolute. But in many cases, a person whose personal information has been collected has the right to tell the party that collected it. I want you to delete it. I don't want you to know about me. And then secondly, as Rob also mentioned, there is an absolute right to rectification, meaning that if you as a person defined that a party that's collected data about you has false erroneous incorrect data, you have the absolute right to have it corrected. The reason I bring back to these two points is because if you think about them and as we find, as I find in my day-to-day work advising clients in order to comply with these requirements, your business must keep much better track of the data that it's collecting. I regularly run into situations where we talked about this in the client at a technical level, like the CTO, the CIO at the client will say, well, wait a minute, we don't actually have a way to track how to find people, how to verify their information, how to verify their identity, even if they came to us and said, delete information about me or fix information about me, we don't necessarily have a way to find that information. So that gets to a major new requirement inherent in these GDPR requirements, which is a technical requirement to track correspondence between people about whose information is collected and where that information is stored so that you can comply with the GDPR if and when you're asked to either delete someone's information or fix an error. It's all stopped there, but I just again would say GDPR has very broad, very global applicability, and it almost across the board requires some attention to information technology systems in order to comply. And back to you, Rob. Okay. Thanks, Dave. So if we just go over to the next slide, we, Dave and I were approached by Sean and others at CGE with MTI as a case study to, with this question, which is, can blockchain solutions comply with GDPR? So the first thing we did was we said, well, okay, why, why will blockchain not be compliant with GDPR? And that's sort of up on the slide now. I think there's one more bill that's still on the slide. I don't know if you can, there we go. So we're not going to spend a lot of time on this because actually what we're, what we're trying to say is how can it comply rather than what could the problems be? But just set the scene, as you can see here, looking, you know, on the left, we've got some of the key factors of blockchain, which we've already introduced, like, you know, it's a great way, it's a great ledger solution. So it's a fantastic way of securing and processing personal data. Just for those who aren't aware on the terminology, processing is really anything you can do with data. So any verb you can think of, including storing, but certainly, you know, processing, transferring, transacting, transmitting, whatever, processing personal data. But of course, as we've said under GDPR, there's a very important requirement of data minimization. So there is already a potential conflict. Then you say, well, blockchain is a fantastic solution because it's immutable. So in other words, it's there forever. The data cannot be deleted. It's there forever in time. And yet Dave Kapos and Kravath has just told you that there is an absolute right of rectification and a qualified but pretty firm right to be forgotten. So there's a conflict. Then we've got an issue that says the blockchain is global. It doesn't believe in national borders. That's the great thing about it. And we're going to look at the MTI solution. It's frictionless. Data transfers everywhere immediately. There's a copy of the of the ledger at every node. And yet GDPR requires data to be kept within national borders or certainly regional borders, unless there's some very strict provisions. Okay, then we've got the fact that blockchain is new technology and it's being implemented in a way that maybe people won't understand it. And GDPR says this all has to be done with privacy built in. And the final point is that the cost blockchain is distributed. And particularly if it's in a in a public blockchain permissionless, anybody could be on that network and anybody could be doing anything with the data. And yet GDPR has certain requirements of the individuals need to know who has the data. We call it the fair processing information. So who are the controllers of the data and what are they doing with it? So I suppose this is one slide of showing everybody that Dave and I understood the question. We could see that there were potentially conflicts. What we did digging around this, there were a lot of people in the technology and legal sectors who were talking about the potential problems, but there weren't enough people from our perspective. There wasn't anybody who really was coming up with a clear vision or paper as to how actually these two could be consistent and how we could have a compliant solution. And we are I think, if I'm right Sean, we're going to move on now to look at what MTI's particular solution does and why they have their solution. And then Dave and I will talk a little bit about how we think that the MTI solution can comply with GDPR. And actually, by the way, with that, sorry, I know we don't have Jodie on and this is probably a slide Jodie was going to speak to. I am more than happy to give this a go. Or Sean, if you want to chat to this one, let me know. Yeah, why don't you go ahead, Rob, and I'll support you on it. Okay, cool. All right. So what we understood, and it was my first personal sort of foray into the international shipping industry, so so this was useful. But what we understood from Jodie or what MTI are trying to do with their solution is to deal with some of these issues that you see on the slide. So when you ship large containers around the globe on the back of transporters, big shipping transporters, it won't supply to you that there's a heck of a lot of data that needs to be recorded. There's a lot of regulations. You need to know what's inside the containers. You need to know who's responsible for it, and you can't move them from one place to another without getting sign off. And this is a very data intensive process. But with the current technology, there are certain problems. One of which is that there's a lot of sort of lack of transparency and lack of trust in that the various people playing in the market tend to be competitors and they don't like the idea that everyone will have access to everybody else's data. And they don't like the idea also that they're going to be sort of operating on any particular platform or technology that one of them is developed. Another problem that they have is that is around sort of this discrete transactions creating friction and the data silos, which is as good to move around the world, what tends to happen is that each place it goes, the paperwork will be signed off and sent on to the next place, then it will be signed off and sent on to the next place. And because this is not a distributed ledger, nobody further down the chain can start work until they've actually got the paperwork. And so it's a hugely slow process, very inefficient. And there are significant amounts of regulations which require that extensive records can be kept. And yet there's no obvious technology solution for doing so. So far beyond my own technical capability or knowledge, people within MTI have developed and devised a fantastic solution with particularly with a very clever piece of middleware, which means that it can this middleware can sit on top of any network or blockchain network solution and enable all sorts of consortia of shipping companies and stakeholders within the shipping industry to have one distributed ledger in which all the data can be stored in an encrypted and secure manner. And everyone can access the data at all times. Everyone can know around the world where everything is happening and can act on it in a time that works for them. That is the solution that they have adopted in order to deal with the particular data problem that they have. Again, Sean, Dave, I don't know if there's anything you want to add before we move on to the privacy by design elements of it. Yeah, thanks, Rob. To me, this is the shipping is the perfect application for blockchain in creating cross-interprise trust among disparate parties that naturally don't trust the information that they receive. It's not timely today. There's lots of metal men, lots of friction in the process. It's very surreal. I've seen research that says shipping costs could drop by more than 30 percent using an automated workflow solution such as blockchain. And MTI certainly has been on the forefront of providing that sort of solution. Back to you, Rob. Well, hey, Sean, thanks, Dave here. Just a couple of further comments. One is that if you're sitting there thinking, you know, so this is the shipping industry. How does privacy and personal information come up? It's a good example of how it turns out. PII private, you know, personal information comes up just about everywhere. We were asking that same question Sean and Rob and I when we first started working with Jody on this project on scratching our head saying, Jesus, this seems like it should be easy because you're talking about data about pallets of widgets and bills of lighting and things about information about objects, things that are inanimate and don't involve people's privacy data. And then as we began speaking with Jody and looking at some of the examples that he presented to us of the data that MTI is required to collect and manage, we began seeing things like signatures of people, driver's license numbers, photographs of trucks as they're entering and exiting ports and in the photographs are included the bright shining smiling faces of the drivers of those vehicles and on and on and on. And so what we found very quickly is that even in an industry that you wouldn't think is characterized by large amounts of privacy information, there is all there's plenty of it. And it turns out there's a lot of it with with data being collected on such a ubiquitous and extensive nature now and just about everything that happens in the world. It won't surprise any of you on this call that almost no matter what industry you're in, you will be collecting and exposed to and dealing with lots of PII. The other thing that I thought I just come back to for a moment, Rob mentioned this was the importance of the middleware layer and it really does turn out to be important as the crux of the solution. We'll come back to it in a few minutes, but I just want to be sure everyone has in mind that the presence of a middleware layer in a blockchain turns out to be critical to being able to not only manage the technology, which is why Jodi created it in the first place, but also to be able to manage the PII issues. And then the last thing I'll just mention briefly is that what you heard from I think both Sean and Rob was the challenges of getting parties to work together in this industry. It turns out that we found from from this experience and others and from the developing use cases for blockchain more generally that no industry we've seen yet is destined to have a gigantic number of blockchains. And the reason for that is that network effects play a significant role. And as a result, what we're seeing is that industries can support at most a couple of blockchains, usually more like one for a solution like the one that we're talking about here that's intended to have global and broad based implications and adherence. And as a result, to make a make this solution work from a business perspective, you've got to get the six, eight or so biggest players in the industry or more are working together and sharing information and putting these things together. And that comes back to Rob's point at the beginning that it's a real challenge to set these things up. We're finding that a joint venture structure is the one that works. And the reason I mentioned all of this is that having the joint venture on the business and legal side turns out to provide the opportunity for the governance that maps and matches with the governance on a technical level that takes place in the middleware. And it's those two things together, the business contractual legal governance through the joint venture and the technical governance through the middleware layer that is the if you will is the Eureka moment that enables blockchain and GDPR to co exist. And when having set that up that way, I'll now turn it back over to Rob. Thanks, Dave. So if we just very quickly flip to the next slide, I actually think we've probably covered most of these, but this is just confirming that MTI solution raises genie VR issues. As Dave quite clearly says, there's a lot of personal data that you need or that you will come across in a ledger related to international shipping. The companies are established, not just in the EU, but doing business or processing and connection with EU establishment. If you distribute the ledger, then this ledger is then going to be on computers, on servers all around the world. And that each one of those can then be a data controller or a regulated entity on the GDPR. So, you know, it does pose issues. If we move now to the next slide, this I suppose summarizes our privacy by design solution for MTI. There's quite a lot of words on there. So let me just pick a few things out. The first thing that I think we would say is if you want to operate a public permissionless blockchain in true, you know, fundamentalist blockchain distributed ledger fashion, it is going to be extremely difficult. We might say impossible to comply with GDPR if personal information, personal data is going to be processed on that. So I think the first thing that makes MTI's solution a sensible privacy solution is that it is a private blockchain solution and it is permissioned. And this goes to the joint venture that Dave just talked about. And we're going to talk quite a bit about having a proper governance process and governance arrangements in place between each of the participants. It is the ability to have participants agreeing to a set of rules and regulations and having it as a closed blockchain solution that enables GDPR compliance. So the next thing that is good privacy advice as we would always say is why do you need to process personal information in the first place? Now, Dave has already told us that there's a lot of personal information, personal data in the shipping industry, but that doesn't mean that it needs to be on the blockchain. And so one of the things that we helped Jody and his team design for MTI is to have privacy if you like kept off chain. And this relies on clever encryption technologies. But in effect, the data that needs to be on the chain, say it might be the record of a shipper's name and address and email contact details and maybe a photo scan of their signature, rather than that being put on the blockchain, that will be hashed with some strong technology, some strong strong encryption and it will only be the hash outcome of that personal information that's actually stored on the chain. And the actual personal information will be kept off chain. Then if anybody needs to access that personal information, the blockchain technology will give them the hash and will explain to them how in effect they can get hold of the information through the off chain governance route. And they will then get access if they need it, they'll get access maybe proof of identity off chain. So the ledger still does its job properly. It still has data passing around the world in a frictionless way. It's immutable. It's a verifiable true picture of what is the truth. But the personal data is only on there in an encrypted way. Now encrypted data is still personal data for the purposes of the blockchain in many ways without having got enough time to go into the details now. But GDPR has a concept of pseudonymization and in that sort of situation where it's encrypted, but there is a key for you to unlock it, then the encrypted data on the chain with access to the key means that it's still personal data for GDPR. But it's significantly easier to comply with GDPR if what you have on the blockchain is the hash rather than the personal data itself. So we have, as I said, private permission blockchain. We keep as much personal data off the chain as possible. One of the amazing things that Jody's solution at MTI does is it uses or it proposes to use AI and other sophisticated technology to actually prevent people from uploading personal data onto the blockchain, except where it is absolutely necessary for the purposes. And you can already hear there the language of the GDPR. Don't upload it onto the chain unless it's absolutely necessary for the purposes. So people may want to, for example, upload someone's name or email content details where they don't need to do that. The middleware technology will block that. So that is another privacy by design solution that will help Jody's technology to remain GDPR compliant. I mentioned the governance framework and by having a set of rules between the various stakeholders, those who are running the nodes of the blockchain, we can ensure compliance with GDPR around things like making sure that the information, the fair processing information is provided to all individuals at all times. So if data is going to be processed on the blockchain, each of the individuals will have access to information about who those stakeholders are. They will know how people can get hold of the hash keys in order to see personal information and the security around the access to those hash keys will be controlled as well. And also all of the contractual provisions that are required, the model clauses to enable data to be transferred outside of the European Union and across borders can be included in the governance framework and the governance contractual arrangements. So they've alluded to it earlier with the joint venture, but by having some sort of venture, the consortium members around the blockchain signing up to a significant governance framework really can go a long way to ensuring GDPR compliance. We then get to, I suppose the hardest elements of GDPR compliance, which as we talked about earlier, these individual rights, like the right to be forgotten or the right to have incorrect data rectified. And these are most difficult because inherent in the technology, this immutability is in effect not deleting data. The data will be there for all time. And so the question is, how can we really get over this? How can we make a blockchain solution like this comply with these? Well, there are certain technology solutions pruning the blockchain, where after a period of time, if you like the historical elements of it can be snipped off, or by using significant encryption technology which which can't be reversed or the keys are destroyed. Technology that NTI are talking about adopting around forking the chain, which again, it's where you get all of the stakeholders or all of the nodes within the blockchain to agree that a historical part of it will be set to one side and the blockchain will literally fork off in another direction. These are all potential ways of ensuring that historical data can be in effect deleted. But it still leaves us with a potential problem because as an individual, if I have the right to have my data deleted, I can ask for that at any time. And the relevant data controllers have to respond to that and delete the data within 30 days. And the methods around pruning or forking are not easy. They take a significant amount of technology and significant amount of computer power and time and resources. And so our, I feel like combined suggestion for NTI was keep the data off the blockchain if you can. If you have to have data on the blockchain, do it on a hash basis. And then if people do have a right to have their data deleted, bearing in mind you can only have your data deleted where it's no longer relevant for the purposes. And the argument I suppose in this solution will be the historical record of the data will remain relevant for a long time. You can think of scenarios where somebody may have been recorded as being the shipper of certain cargo which they no longer want to be recorded on. Maybe it was erroneous, maybe it was an error and it needs to be rectified. And in that situation, our suggestion, and this is where we have a challenge for the regulators, our suggestion is that having all of the data on the blockchain in encrypted hashed form and then in effect requiring all of the stakeholders in this joint venture, all of the nodes of the blockchain to delete the keys that would enable you to decrypt the data, in effect that data is deleted. It is no longer possible to decrypt the data, not without a significant amount of computer power, which would not be at the hands of any particular individual. And at that basis, we would say that the data is virtually deleted. Now, there are differences of opinion within the European data world as to whether strong encryption and throwing away the key is sufficient to achieve deletion. Certainly, the pre-prerunner to the European Data Protection Board before the GDPR took the view a few years ago that strong encryption is not in itself sufficient or strong encryption and destruction of the key is not in itself sufficient to be deletion. But of course, that guidance was given five years ago, four or five years ago, and our call to the regulator now is that we need to update that. And if you look at some of the views coming out of France and Germany and the UK around the blockchain community, the view is that a use of strong encryption technology and an ability to delete the keys is all that would be required. So I suppose in summary on that point, and if you read the report that Sean introduced at the beginning of the webinar, there are two versions of it, but what we boiled down to is we say, you know, I suppose the question is, did we succeed in our task? CGE and sort of remain Prevath taken together, did we succeed in our task of proving that GDPR and blockchain can live together? I think the answer is pretty much there are a number of steps that you can take, which we've outlined in this presentation, in particular, using the private permission blockchain and keeping as much data off the chain as possible and having a strong governance framework. But at the end of the day, what we've also done is raise the challenge to the regulators to say help us, those of us who are trying to implement blockchain solutions, help us by giving us clarity, tell us that it is okay to achieve deletion by having very strong encryption on hash data on the blockchain and throwing away the key. And that's why I'm looking at the EDPB and their 10th plenary yesterday when they're discussing blockchain in a hope that having read our paper, they will be giving us a positive response. So that was a very quick rattle through our advice to MTI and now over to Dave and to Sean to add anything else. Yeah, thanks, Rob. Nothing really to add here, because that was a great summary. Just, you know, again, top line, keep the PII off chain, as Rob said. Use a hash on chain so that you can verify that the off chain PII is correct. To keep the PII off chain, use technical measures. That's the middleware in the case of MTI that technically avoids putting enabling PII to come on chain and use business measures through the structure of the JV, the governance that's set up to require participants not to put PII on chain. So I'll stop there. And I think, Sean, you want to come back on with the next section? Yes. Yeah. Thank you. Thank you, Rob. And thank you, Dave. One point that we can't emphasize, I think, strongly enough is that it was it's very, very difficult to be compliant GDPR compliant on anything but a private blockchain. So there's lots of public ones out there, but you don't know where the data resides. You don't know where the ledgers are. You don't know who has access to that.  So let's a couple of questions here, Rob. I know you you need to run. So maybe Dave and I can can talk a little bit about questions that in my travels have have arisen from from people interested in the subject. You know, the first and Rob, Rob, thank you. Thank you very much. I'm fine for another five minutes. So I'm going to try and help answer some questions with you for five. And then apologies that I do have to run on the hour. OK, great. Well, the first question I and you hit this during the during the course of the of the presentation a little bit, but the question I'm most frequently asked is a GDPR that that just applies to be to see. So I'm not impacted by it might be to be business. Am I Rob, your thoughts on that? Good question. So so you broke up a bit, but I think what you were saying was is it right that the GDPR already applies to be to see businesses? The answer is no. That's that's not the case. So it applies also to be to be just it's actually quite simple. GDPR is the regulation which regulates the processing of personal data, as we call it, personal identifiable information. I think it's better known in some other jurisdictions, PII, but it doesn't matter whether that personal data is being processed as part of a consumer facing business or B2B and NTI is a good example here. There are going to be individuals who are acting in a business capacity, but they are responsible for shipping goods and for taking certain steps to ship goods and their personal identifiers, which by the way, of course, will include their name, their their image, their signature, their email address, but also their their transactional history and actually their other things. So their IP addresses, you know, so the history of their of their behavior and online can all be identifiers. Now, you know, for this reason, those of my clients that are B2C clients do tend to spend more time, money, effort, energy and sleepless nights worrying about GDPR because they are processing the data of hundreds of thousands of consumers. But as a B2B business, you will be processing the data of individuals and also, by the way, you'll be processing the data of your employees. And so it is in short, it applies to all companies and other entities that process PII. OK, thank you, Rob. One additional question here that I think is probably on the top of everyone's mind is you mentioned during that during the presentation that we've got a regulation, but the regulatory bodies aren't in a position to provide a lot of guidance right now. So what advice are you are you giving your clients, Rob and Dave? We're making it up. No, no. Look, so first of all, to be clear, I mean, the law, the law is the law and the regulation is quite detailed. You know, it's a big, it's a big weighty piece of legislation and there's a lot of words and a lot of recitals. So also a lot of the guidance that applied before the GDPR with the old European directive as it was then is still applicable or at least we're taking it as applicable. There's also a fair amount of case law. So in many people's view, one of the things the regulation did is that it codified the law that had come around through case law. And so it's not true to say that there's sort of a complete absence of guidance. It's just that it's slowly coming through. So, you know, I think I suppose what I would say is there is if you take the view that the purpose of the regulation is to ensure that we protect individuals right, but it's not intended to prevent companies doing good business. People like Dave and myself and firms like Provath, this little to May, we take a very sort of pragmatic view of this. We help businesses to find the way through. You know, there should always be a way through to be able to comply. And the other thing I'd say is because the guidance is being designed and developed as we speak, there's a really good opportunity for everybody. People like CGE, law firms like Dave's and mine, and also people like MTI and others to actually engage with the regulators and the legislators to define that guidance. So on an industry basis and on a jurisdictional basis, companies and individuals are consulting with regulators to try and define the guidance. So it is an exciting time. OK, thank you, Rob. And we're drawn to the end of our hour here. Maybe I can ask one last question here. And that's around additional legislation, particularly in the US and in China. Are we seeing that other countries are piggybacking on the EU legislation? And is this something that you should factor into your future design no matter where you are in the world? Or where you are in the world? Yeah, Sean, Dave here, and I'll help with that one. And I think to start with your last question, the answer is emphatically yes. You should design PII in to your solutions no matter where you're operating. And the reason I say that is because, number one, if you're a global business, you are touching on Europe almost certainly, as we have said several times in this presentation. But even if you're not, jurisdictions all over the world are following the EU. And we're very much in a global wave situation. In the US, the state of California, which is the world's sixth largest economy, even though it's only a single state here, so it holds considerable sway in its own right, has passed a PII law that is, in many ways, modeled after the GDPR. It goes into effect next year. Other states in the US are working on legislation. I'm aware of around 10 committees of jurisdiction in Congress that have or are putting together approaches, some of which will result in legislation. It's very likely that in the US will have federal legislation probably in this term of Congress, so within the next year and a half or so. And then if you go outside the US, Brazil has its own version of the GDPR that it has put in place and is standing up to implement. And other countries are looking at it as well. So I think before we're done and sooner rather than later, we are going to see GDPR-like laws on a global basis. And that's why we ought to all just come into compliance and implement IT legal governance approaches that comply with GDPR from the beginning. OK, thank you, Dave. And I'd like to thank you, Dave and you, Rob, for an excellent and very informative hour. My apologies to the audience for not being able to take questions. We will set up a blog on the DSCI website where you can submit questions and we will get you answers to those. And in addition, we will upload today's presentation to our website and make that available to you. So thank you all for your participation. It was an excellent and informative hour. Hope you all have a good day. Thank you. Thanks, Sean. Yep, bye.


Hello ladies and gentlemen, welcome to phase one of the tour. Been talking about this for a long time, gotta go get Lunkers right now. He is getting his vessel worked on, wrapped, getting some special looking stuff for you guys and we're taking my vessel and we are gonna begin the tour of east Texas. Bass fishing extravaganza, it begins now. I know you got some special stuff already kicking it off, things that we've never even seen on this channel. I like it. Y'all will figure more about all that weirdness as we go along but we're gonna be probably doing a lot of sight fishing so we're trying to give ourselves some helpful tools and hopefully give you guys some helpful tips and tools along the way. So today's kind of a travel day but we do have one lake in particular that we're thinking about stopping at this afternoon. So this is what the back of the truck is looking like here. Ready for the bears, the bears, the tigers, and the mandos. Rob's just getting some last-minute terminal selections ready to rock. I wonder if those things of tungsten fall out. I hope not. Alrighty, oh we've been on the road for a little while now. We're getting close though. All the pine trees, the greenery you can tell, we're deep in the E. It's looking pretty fresh, pretty good. The main thing we were concerned about was water clarity. They've obviously had a bunch of rain out here but this lake has enough grass modules in it that help keep it clean. Bass like to spawn in clear water. They can see each other, it makes things a lot easier. So finding clear water on the lake definitely helps. Got grass in there, that's a huge help. Down here in the south we got hydrilla, millfoil, things like that. And I think we're just gonna go straight after looking for site fish. It's just the exciting, we know what's gonna happen. The water's 66, there's no way they're not up dense. If they aren't, then Rob is, can't come up with anything exciting right there. Stay tuned. Okay, got a little stomp action. Don't really know anything about this lake, so we're just kind of idling around. We're gonna put the trolling bar down, see what happens. All right, let's go.  Oh my god. Is that a fish? What is that? That's a alligator. He's got an alligator on. What in the world? That's an alligator. That's not a bass, no. That thing was like four feet long. Whoa, two bass just freaking chasing each other right there. There's one under that bush right there. See that tail there? Yeah, there's another one over here too behind that bush. Oh, okay. I see his tail barely. Yeah, he's like right in there. Stick him with the program.  There's a bigger one. I just saw that fish come out. It's going in there now. I got one here. There's one over here.  Oh, just rolled. Just rolled and whipped. Oh, you got him. Nice, bro. This one at first was nothing to do. Now I think I've got a little chemistry figure down on this guy. You got him. Yes. Came over and slapped it right on the kitchen mat. All right, we have not moved. Me and Rob just stuck two fish right here, and there's a few more about. So that was fun. At first, that fish was not going anywhere, guys.  It was just swimming around, which is not in the zone. And then this was a fish that I had to literally just like, I had to pitch and pitch and kind of surprise it. And then it started kind of getting tighter circles and eventually just honed in. Go back and do your business. Boy there. He's over here to the left hand side. He's like looking right at you. He's like, hey, you trying to film my house? It's going, oh man. He's hard charging in. Oh, sorry about that. He came hard. Am I at the wrong side, you think? No, that's fine. That's what you need right there. All right, good. As soon as you got off that ladder, he goes back. He comes in there and like, I'm speeding in Zollis. Okay, there we go. Nice fresh one. I'm turning in the ladder part of the evening here. Just saw a Mondo boil action in here after a bluegill, I'm assuming. I'm just going to take a moment and throw a few things in here. Oh my gosh, she's still up there. Oh gosh. Oh, there's a boil right there. Do you see that? On the backside? No, right there on the side. Left side. There's got to be a fish there. That's the dock though. I don't know if this fish is residing to the dock. There's definitely a bad there. Definitely a fish there. There's a bed right there. Yeah, we got a turn. Do you see the fish? Yeah, I've camouflaged myself in here. There might be a chance. Oh, got it. Oh, going under the dock. Come here. Sneaky little one there. That was pretty neat. I actually saw that fish. Just saw the boil in the pollen. We snuck up there and I could see him. All fresh. Cool. See you, baby. We did a lot of cruising trying to see, trying to see the fish on this last little bank just turned to mud. We've got boils around the bank. You can see like they're chasing bluegill around. All of the fish we've caught have been fresh. Great sign. We're definitely going to come back here tomorrow. This is just a little scouting day, but wow. Thumbs up. Thumbs up for good fishing. All right, got another fish located and it's a dandy. I'm going to say this is a back boater. Rob, go ahead and send her home, dude. We don't have much light left. Oh, yeah, that's a good fish. Oh my God. She's literally like trying to get a look at us. Okay, we've got another one here. We are just, I can't believe how many beds we're seeing.  Okay, here's what's going on here. This male, he is locked, like about to eat it. Female is hanging back. She's just like, what are you doing? Why won't you just guard the bed? Meanwhile, I'm just trying to get in this action. Just trying to get all up in this action. Come on, eat it. Oh, sorry, Rob. Sorry, I bet it was moving. Took a tail off. Very common right there to see that, guys. Just pick up a pencher and go. Just going to flip it in as is. And I'm just trying to look for that white to move through this pollen. Oh, I gave him a little scoop out of the water there. Maybe it's up to hook a little too hard, but all right, there we go. Fresh fish. And it's female, so I'm somewhere around here, but she just, she's not ready. Maybe later tonight. And the night is dark and the moon is high. We're on a new moon, so that probably won't happen. All right, ladies and Gentiles, we are cruising another bank right now. Just end of the day. We're just literally just looking, just scouting to see. I cannot wait to get back here tomorrow. This water clarity over here, way better. We haven't seen any on beds, but we just know if we look, if you look hard enough, we're going to see one up here in the shallows. Um, I believe that's a fish. Longer fish? No, there never was. No, I just think we got a little bit of shadow issue. Okay, we got a little excited. Happens. I think it's taco time. Go find our home for tonight. Get back after it in the AM. I am so pumped. I haven't been so pumped for fishing like this in a long time. I'll tell you guys right now, we just had a godsend. The lady at the front desk is allowing us to park the boat up front at this hotel. So just to catch you guys up, me and Rob came to the hotel here. It's always a little worry, you know, when you're pulling up to this place like, huh, you know, I wonder if they even have places to park and plug and all that stuff when you got the boat trailer. We didn't have a spot. We literally just parked over here on the side and then I just politely isolated. I was like, sir, we got one of those boats that you got a charge and she was like, oh sweet, just pull it right up front. Heck yes. Shout out to the best Western for hooking us up on that. We're going to be right up front. We just walk out of the hotel room in the morning, charging ready to go fired up and head to the lake. This is all about being on the this is all just stuff that happens. Stuff you got to think about. It's not just, you know, going out there and catching them. We're going to settle in in our room and get ready for the next day. Yep. Yes. Oh, and by the way, there are some fishing freaks. You guys are making the video right now. Guess you caught us at the boat ramp. Got some good little graffiti here on the back of the truck. It's so dirty. Oh, Garrett, Garrett was here. Thanks for the vids. Something extra down there. Love vids and something over there. I'm not quite sure, but thank you guys for riding on all the old truck here. Give us a little inspiration for tomorrow. Hope you guys caught some big ones today too. All right. As you can tell, Rob's really excited singing the doo wop. You know, bass around beds when he's singing the doo wop. Was it last time? Oh, yeah. I think he said doo wop, but it's a mix of old school and new school. Whatever. It means he's excited. I'm excited. We're here at a hotel. Can I just say something bad there? I apologize. We're at a hotel OSG and Sarah, don't worry about it. We're going to do our normal thing that you guys probably don't see behind the scenes, but we're going to start downloading footage, get things ready for the next day. Make sure to subscribe to the channels here, and we will see you on the next day at the tour. Big day tomorrow. Looking forward to it. See you then. There's another buff in there. Hey, can you remind me?  I got two buffs on the boat. I kind of had two on. One for my neck, one for my face.


For more videos on People's Juggles, please subscribe to our YouTube channel. Hindu right-wing mobs went on a rampage in Delhi, attacking the minority Muslim community. At least 23 deaths have been reported so far and the number continues to rise. Most suffered bullet injuries. The violence began when Hindu right-wing mobs started attacking protesters who were peacefully demonstrating against the Divisive Citizenship Amendment Act. Peaceful protests against CAA have been going on for the past two months. On Sunday, protesters carried out marches and occupied some roads in response to a nationwide shutdown call against CAA. No violence was reported during these protests. Then in the morning, a member of the ruling right-wing Bhartiya Janta Party or BJP, Kapil Mishra gave a call for people to mobilize against the protesters. On Sunday afternoon, Kapil Mishra gave a provocative speech at Majpur in Northeast Delhi while police stood behind him the whole time, doing nothing. Following this, stone pelting began by right-wing mobs against protesters and clashes broke out. Police took no action. Violence spread to other areas of Northeast Delhi as well. On Monday, the situation remained tense and violence escalated. Vehicles, homes, shops were set on fire in Majpur, Janbag, Jaffrabad and many areas of Northeast Delhi. Muslims were singled out as targets. Mobs roamed the streets armed with batons, stones and even guns. Police were reported to be either mute spectators or complicit with the writers. By Monday night, two deaths had been reported including a police officer. On Tuesday, the situation further spiralled out of control. Writers were trying to barge into houses, attack residents, shouting inflammatory and provocative slogans against Muslims. Muslim-owned properties and establishments were especially targeted. A Hindu mob set fire to a mosque in Ashoknagar and hoisted a saffron flag. Mosques in surrounding areas were also vandalized. Many journalists were also attacked and threatened by mobs who demanded to know their religion. Another BJP assembly member in East Delhi, Abhavarma, carried out a rally chanting provocative slogans. Police took no action again. Witnesses have even stated that baton-carrying writers were being transported from one place to another on official bikes by the police. Hospitals came under attack. Ambulances were unable to reach victims. It was only after the Delhi High Court passed an order at 2 a.m. on Wednesday morning that Delhi police swung into action and worked to provide safe passage to ambulances. The entire situation is being described as spontaneous riots between two communities. However, the police in action and even absence from areas witnessing violence from right-wing Hindu mobs raises questions about state complicity. This is because the Delhi police operates directly under the Central Home Ministry headed by BJP leader Amit Shah. Victims have also reported that most attackers were outsiders to the area and came armed with weapons. They were not stopped by the police which either stood by or even helped them. Moreover, the violence began immediately after provocative speeches that were made by those in the ruling dispensation. It should also be pointed out that in 2002, when the Indian state of Gujarat witnessed the anti-Muslim pogrom which left hundreds dead, the same Amit Shah-Narendra Modi combination was in power in the state. There has also been harsh criticism of the Delhi state government which has failed to take adequate measures to protect people. At midnight on Tuesday, students protested in front of Chief Minister Arvind Kejriwal's house demanding action. But instead of any dialogue, they faced water cannons. The Supreme Court and the High Court have criticised Delhi police for their inaction and unprofessionalism. On Wednesday, left parties, civil society organisations, activists and citizens organised a sit-in asking for peace at Parliament Street in the heart of the capital. While all of this was happening, Prime Minister Narendra Modi completely ignored the burning capital hiding behind US President Donald Trump's visit to the country. It was only on Wednesday afternoon when the death toll had already reached 21 that Modi tweeted and appealed for peace.


I was around 14 years old. I can remember getting my period and telling one of my friends. I started my period. I remember feeling ashamed, frustrated because no one had had these conversations with me about, you know, what to do, who to go to. But I also felt like what I was experiencing wasn't what other people were experiencing. You know, I was feeling suicidal in the run-up to my periods. I was feeling withdrawn. I was feeling paranoid. I was feeling angry and it just wasn't why my friends were all just, they seemed to be going through it normally. And there was me like, why am I feeling like this? When my husband did eventually drag me to the GP after my youngest was born, she, you know, she spoke to my husband and my husband said, look, I'm worried my wife is not going to make it to next month. I am concerned that by next month she is going to be dead. By this point, I had already been diagnosed with depression, generalized anxiety disorder, bipolar disorder, emotionally unstable personality disorder and post-traumatic stress disorder. She spoke to me. She listened to my husband and she said to me, has there ever been any point where you've not had the symptoms? And I said to her, yeah, whenever I've been pregnant and she said to me, have you ever heard of severe PMS? And I said to her, no. And she said, I don't think you've got any of the other things you've been diagnosed with. I think I'm confident. She said, this is what you've got. So almost instantaneously when I started my periods, my mom and my grandmother noticed that there was a link between my periods and my mental health. It was either the fact that nobody was willing to listen and make the connection or they weren't educated in PMDD. You know, my family had suffered greatly. My children had suffered greatly watching me go through what I'd gone through each month. And all because nobody had made this connection. There are various sources of support, information. One in 20 of us suffer from PMDD. You know, there is a whole community of us out there. We will hold you up. We will help you.


Then there's more. Kevin and his wife Clark have dived in to help as many people as possible in the community. Whether rallying on the runway to help kids fight cancer, helping families at the holidays, serving as the 2020 official spokesperson for the United Way of Greater Nashville, or making something big happen through the Byrd Family Legacy Fund, Kevin Byrd seems to spend more time helping people than he does harassing opposing offenses. So it was no surprise that he was the 2020 Tennessee Titans Walter Payton Man of the Year. So yes, Kevin Byrd is a genuine Titan who has done a lot to make his Middle Tennessee State University proud, both on and off the field, as he does every single. Just look around! We all we got, dawg! But like I always say, we all we need, dawg! This is trust and belief!


It's September the 16th. It's Wednesday. It's 11 o'clock. It's Trump week. I'm Tim Appachel, your host. And today's title is 100,000 COVID dead, nothing to be done. Well, that is the title. And that is going to be the subject is the response from Donald Trump regarding the COVID debacle and his recent words, his nine, 10 interviews with Bob Woodward and his responses to COVID or the lack of his response. Before I get to my guess, I'm going to go through a very quick timeline to kind of put things in perspective. You know, back in January 22nd, Donald Trump told CNBC that this was going to be totally under control. And this was all handled. And then on the 24th of January, he praised China on how well they have done with their COVID response and the transparency they provided to the rest of the world and praised them. And then on the 28th, this is a very, very important date is the National Security Advisor Robert O'Brien wrote to Donald Trump and told Donald Trump that this will be the biggest national security threat that will face your presidents. Then also then on 29th, this is a very important part is that Peter Navarro, who is the economic trade advisor to Donald Trump wrote a memo that this pandemic was going to be as on the same level as the 1918 Spanish flu pandemic and there could be up to 500,000 lives lost. So that's a very important date because if we fast forward to March 19th, when he spoke with Bob Woodward, he was called to say, I wanted to play it down.  And then we'll fast forward to April the 12th, 2020, when the report came out that Donald Trump was advised by Peter Navarro that this virus, COVID-19, could potentially have 200, 400,000, 500,000 fatalities. And Donald Trump claimed he never saw that memo from Peter Navarro. Well, we know he did and we know the day before Peter Navarro wrote that memo, Robert O'Brien told him and wrote to him saying, we've got a problem here at Houston. So more denials and this is the crux of the issue is Donald Trump's seemingly inability to address COVID. And now we have 200,000 American deaths and the University of Washington projects that we could have up to 410,000 deaths by January 2021. Going to our guests. Good morning, everyone. Today our guests are Jay Fidel, Winston Welch, Stephanie Dalton, and Cynthia Lee Sinclair. Good morning, everybody. Good morning, Tim. Morning. Jay, right to you.  That's what I like to do. I'm a cheerleader. He says that a lot. I'm a cheerleader for this disease. I don't want to panic people. And then, of course, the most important quote that he said is, nothing more could have been done as if Donald Trump did everything he possibly could to attack this virus. We know that's not true. But does it make a difference? Does it make a difference to the public, to his voting loyal base? Has he lost some people in that loyal base because they are seniors? Your thoughts? Well, first, my first thought is that he hasn't done anything. And I remember, you know, day after day waiting for him to do something and it really never appeared.  But the larger reaction I have to that, Tim, that this is a demagogue. He lies on a regular basis. We know that. And he gets away with it. And he somehow has this hypnotic, you know, cult-like relationship with this base where they buy it no matter what, even if it's very clear from all sources, including Fox News, that he is lying. An alternative reality. And that's the remarkable thing. There are two narratives, at least, going on in this country. One is the reality and the other is Donald Trump. And a lot of people buy into Donald Trump. And I think you cannot have a sustainable democracy when you have two competing narratives. It's like pots and pans banging against each other. You can't do anything. It's not just this issue. It's all issues. And it's Congress. The man is a destructive force. He's destroying our democracy by virtue of these competing narratives. And what I worry about is that we can evaluate, and I'm sure we will here today, you know, what it looks like in terms of the pure vote. But you've got to remember that he's a demagogue and he's affecting people every day, taking every step he can take to try to, you know, change or undermine or suppress their votes or the process of voting. The end of the day, even if there is an overwhelming vote in favor of Biden, Biden may not win. And even if Biden wins, there's going to be a problem, Houston. There's going to be people in the street who have, you know, upheaval. And that upheaval could lead us far away from democracy. So, you know, what I think we have here is the likelihood that Trump will convince people through this cult mechanism he has of black is white, white is black. And he will somehow stay in office. And the real problem for us and for anyone thinking about it is what do we do in the new time? How do we address this problem? What do we say now to minimize this problem? I know that goes beyond your question, but that's my reaction. No, that's okay, because it leads into this question. That is, okay, we have the things that are the obvious. I mean, it's reality versus non-reality. Nothing more could have been done, yet we see Donald Trump at his rallies, be it back in Tulsa, where Herman Cain was and most likely contracted COVID that ended his life, or it'd be in Nevada or California, where they're packed in. They have no masks. His audience has no masks. And he's on a stage. He's well protected. What do you mean nothing more can be done? That's the thing that I can't get my arms around is that it's obvious that he doesn't care to what extent this thing spreads. What am I missing here? What am I missing here, Jay? All this morning, sometime in October, they're going to have the football season start. And I don't know that he could do something. He could not have the football season. He could do something. He could not open the schools. He could do something and allow the various governors to call for their citizens to wear masks. He hasn't done anything. In fact, in fact, to make the lie all the more shattering is that he's actually discouraging people from doing anything. He's 180 out on this. So for him to say that he's done everything he could do is outrageous. Okay, thank you. Hey, which I'm going to go to you on this because yesterday was a town hall meeting with George Stephanopoulos. Donald Trump kind of led the cat out of the bag as far as what his philosophy is and has been. And that was that he said the virus is going to go away no matter what with or without a vaccine. And he misstated and misspoke about calling it a herd mentality versus our herd immunity. Is that what we've been dealing with since January is that Donald Trump has quietly and secretly adopted a herd immunity approach to COVID-19. And that's why he seemingly hasn't done anything about giving hospitals their PPEs or slowed down the testing or not having contact tracing and certainly not encouraging mask wearing. In fact, discouraging mask wearing. You know, is this a conspiracy theory that I'm dealing with here that Donald Trump really all along has had secretly desired to have a herd immunity approach to COVID? Well, I don't think he has any approach, but one to lie and deceive the American public who are we can take the truth. But I think that was a Freudian slip for herd mentality talking about his own followers and saying, you know, they will run off the cliff. And sadly, because these are our friends, our family, our neighbors, it's pain for us to see the grief and the shame that he brings upon the nation and himself and also that they are so duped and feel like we are. You think about it, what was the outrage of last week? Do you remember the title of the show? Suckers and losers. The military dead. Military dead. That is so last week. That doesn't even register on people's radar.  We're going to have some more revelations came out. And there's an article in the New York magazine, I believe it was, and in the New York intelligence, why Woodward's book won't break through. And it just talks about that there is, by this date, Trump's indifference to matters of life and death have long since been baked into most voters verdict on this president. He's brazenly showcasing, casing his immutable callousness and narcissism in public view, violating local mandates, et cetera. So for his base, it may not matter, but at some point, there may be something that's just snaps in someone just this. I want to hit that point right there. I want to hit that point right there because you said something just a little bit ago about, he might have had a Freudian slip about how he refers to his voters, his base. And that's the herd, the herd mentality. I don't know if you caught this or if the rest of you caught this or not, but he was approached by a reporter that had social distance and she said, are you concerned about catching this? He said, no, I'm not concerned because I'm way up here on the stage and my crowd is way down there on the floor. Yeah, his crowd's way down on the floor, shoulder to shoulder, and no one has a mask on. So I mean, he clearly talked about a disdain for their safety, but he's protected because he's way up on the stage. He clearly doesn't have any respect for their well-being and basically their safety. I don't know if anyone caught that or not, but I found it jaw-dropping yet again. Oh, it's amazing because the very people that he's purporting to be a better supporter, he's cut off food stamps or unemployment, whatever it is, and they don't realize that this is impacting them directly, there is such a cognitive disconnect going on in this country that it's hard to wrap your head around. And I don't know how and when people wake up. There's seemingly nothing that he can do. Sometimes I think we've been pumped these last four years and he's been like that, trying to get out of office since before he even got in and just has one more outrageous thing after another, but this has just read me to the base and I don't know where, how, when, what triggers them, but we are not really going for that. His ratings have been absolutely rock solid the entire time of his administration through every single everything as far as the lows and the highs, and that is just reality. So you really are going after that 14,000 people in Wisconsin. What is their messaging that they really need to hear? And I think the Democrats are wildly focused on finding those 14,000 people and flipping them over on whatever topic gets to them, whether it's veterans or illness or the economy or who knows what lies. All righty. Thank you Winston. Cynthia, your comments about what you witnessed or what you've been hearing from the audio tapes that Bob Woodward has been playing and I guess part of it, we may have this drip, drip, drip kind of scenario between now and election day.  So your opinion about how he wanted to downplay it and he always likes to downplay the virus. To what degree does that stick with some of the voters? In fact, I think some of the poll numbers are shifting a little bit and he's losing some of the 65 plus crowd. And I don't know if that's in Florida or what specific state. I don't know if that's in the Midwest as a generic sampling, but he is losing some of his older base. Well, I would hope so. I would think that, well, I don't really understand how anyone supports him still. Because I don't see how anyone can look past the lies.  This goes so far beyond policy and partisanship that people are dying. Hundreds of thousands of people are dying. And this is no slight on 9-11, but we lost what, 5,000 people? And here almost 20 years later, we still mourn those people, but we're not mourning our 200,000 that are dying today, every day. And in that George Stephanopoulos town hall, you were talking about a minute ago. He actually, when he was confronted on downplaying it by one of the people that was there to question him. And he said, I never downplayed this. I never said I downplayed it. If anything, I upplayed it. Now, I'm not quite sure how you could upplay anything, but it's also a ridiculous example of how disconnected he is from reality. He said here, to all the governors here, it's on your heads, it's on your shoulders, you do it, until he wanted something done.  And so there's this dichotomy of stuff that he's putting out there. And it is straight out of a playbook, a dictator's playbook, or even just a narcissist playbook, where they tell you something over and over and over and they gaslight you to the point where you no longer trust your own feelings. You no longer trust what the truth is. And that's, I think, how he holds on to his base. Okay. Yeah. Thank you so much on that, Cynthia. Stephanie, let me ask you this. Cynthia just mentioned the word gaslighting. And the question is, if he continues as he does to gaslight about COVID or be at the fires out in California and Oregon, or the imagined boogeyman that's coming to the suburbs of Wisconsin and the Midwest, and it's only he is the protector that will keep the boogeyman from coming out into the suburbs. If he continues to gaslight, does he get a fair shake from the media? Does he get the use of bully pulpit? And the reason I asked is because I desperately tried to find the show, the town hall meeting with George Stephanopoulos on CNN, MSNBC, even ABC, and I couldn't find it. So I'm not sure if that was even covered. What do you think about that? I was wondering where that was to and why only excerpts were run and we're not informed as to where the show is. Is that a direct result of their tired of gaslighting and why give them the microphone if that's all he's going to do? Well, it'll come out because the other journalists will find it. We'll find out about it surely. There can't be anything happening in the country that's not on tape and it's going to be available many, many times over. But we're so ill-served by this man and as all these comments are so on the point and well taken.  But to me, it raises my regard for Mary Trump of the Trump family because these people are now stepping up to to validate that what we're seeing is in fact what he is and he's a disaster and he has been since childhood and he has no capacity to do the kinds of things. We keep asking why. So no questions about why it's patently clear. We could have selected the 10-year-old from the best elementary schools around and just put a volunteer in for president. What more do we need if this is going to continue on? The other point is just imagine if he was in your family, you know, taking responsibility for this is what we've created and now it's on you and we're sorry about that and here's why it all happened and try to help explain it. But the other comment that I keep hearing is for like people from Colorado and the states that are kind of iffy. It's about the open carry and it's about abortion. And so they think that, you know, these are important and that somebody's out there going to take it away.  You want a gun? Go buy it. I mean, there's no problem with that and it's in the Constitution. But anyway, so that seems to be at the level of our rule following as a nation to get through this man's chance as a four-year president and to give him the best chance for him to do the best he can. Well, we've seen it. Okay, so yes, we have. We have to and I would say before you could have rule following, you got to make sure the rules still exist. And I'm not sure after four years just how many of them are valid anymore and that that can even be enforced with this guy. So anyway, okay, Stephanie, thank you so much. And Jay, I want to go to you. You know, we have these horrific fires out in Oregon and California and Donald Trump was at a roundtable get together. And the question was, you know, we've got a climate change environment here and his snarky response to the individual that mentioned that was, it'll get cooler, just watch. And then that individual said, well, I wish the science would agree with that. And he said, the science doesn't know everything. Did you happen to cast that remark? I did. That was an outrage. And then he moved on. When that fellow who was a natural resources in Oregon, I think, or California, made those comments to him, asked those questions, he shut them up and moved on to someone else. That's what he does at the press conferences too. But in his response, if you will, to all these fires, which are really a disaster and a clear statement of climate change is completely lacking. He doesn't admit the science. He doesn't admit climate change, even when you have not only fires, but storms in the East Coast that are unprecedented. And then he blames someone else. Even though the federal government owns like two thirds of the land involved in these fires, he says, as long as the states, they didn't do good forest management. They should have gotten in there and swept up the leaves. That's, it's their fault. Well, isn't it a good point to be made that these, oh, go ahead. I'm sorry. I'm just also saying that meanwhile, he hasn't really done a response. He hasn't provided a emergency funds and all those brownshirts that he sent into Portland. Okay. Where are they? They're not on the fire, the fire lines. They're not helping. So, you know, this, this kind of emergency thing only applies to when he considers an emergency, but not when it's a real emergency. This really awful what's happening in the West and he's not doing anything about it. Well, I, I, I really kind of go back to that raking, raking the forest, you know, if I'm not mistaken, I think in Oregon and California, most of those lands are federal lands. Doesn't that fall into the federal government for maintenance? Yeah. It's his own fault.  He lies about everything, every word out of it. You know, the whole thing, how can you tell when he's lying, his lips are moving. And so this is another lie. And the tragic thing about these competing narratives in our country now is that there are a lot of people who believe everything he says. They don't care if a case can be made that he's lying. And this is going to lead us to a disaster. Agreed. Okay. Thank you, Jay, for your comment. Hey, Winston, we have been fortunate enough to receive a question from one of our viewers. So I'd like to read that right now. Here's the question or for instance, a comment, I think, and then the question. We continually talk about how outrageous Trump is and how unprecedented his actions are. Yet we stand by with disbelief and feel helpless to do anything. What practical steps can we take as voting citizens to take action and change this narrative? The ranting is getting exhausting. We need practical steps to take action. Any ideas? So thank you, whoever wrote this. It's a very good question. And Winston, I'm going to put that in your court. Well, you know what? It's a great question, but maybe it comes down to the personal. People are telling me they can't watch the news anymore because it doesn't matter. You feel like you've got to fact check the news now. There are many reliable news sources, but if you're being told by Fox, this is the news, or by Donald Trump, and like Jay just said, you're willing to believe that. And what I would love to have on here is a mass psychologist, a psychologist of mass movements and how they happen and how to explain what has happened in our nation that we can be so willing to fall for this. That might help in how do you deprogram people, but it may be a personal level. It may be reaching out to people in maybe not just borderline states or the toss-up states, but in our own families and say, this is how this affects me.  And don't you miss in America where we can trust in our governments and believe what our leaders say?  You know, why is he lying? And you have to explain them. Yeah, he lies about everything. And he said, but he's a leader. He shouldn't lie. Those types of things should really resonate with people on some fundamental level. Like, how do we get beyond that? But I mean, the outrageous things he says, it's just, it doesn't matter.  Maybe that's the most effective way at this point, but we need a mass deep programming as well, just so that we can get back and restore our faith in government. I mean, he was saying in Nevada that he deserves another four years because he was probably entitled to it. And so eight more years and you think about that. At least the CDC director, there's things coming out at the deep state, right? Says that we're not going to have the most Americans won't have a vaccine until the middle of next year. So there are dribs and grabs coming out that people are realizing, you know what, the CDC FDA, while it's still been tarnished, there's good people in there that are actually trying to get out the truth that says you're not going to get a vaccine before this. Yeah, no, I've heard the reality show has actually been playing lately and it's been a good one. And yes, about the virus. Okay. Hey, Cynthia, before I ask you this question again, that I just asked Winston, I'm going to, I'm going to quote Barack Obama, President Obama, about this question. And that is what practical steps can be taken to quote Obama. Don't get mad. Vote. Well, you know me, you need to do more than just vote. You need to make sure if you mail in your ballot and you have a way to track it, track it, keep track of it, make sure you know that it goes all the way through and gets counted. Don't just stick your ballot in the mail, physically take it to your election office, do those kind of specific things, and to sort of speak to the person who sent in the question. It's so important that we stay informed during this time. By the same token, it's important to take a break, to come away from it. I don't watch any news on the weekends, none. I only watch good-feeling movies on Netflix and Amazon. And some of the newer stuff, the political stuff that's coming out like unfit, which is an extremely in-depth look at some of the things that Trump has been doing and addresses some of his psychological reasons behind it. And I think another way to understand all of this is to look at what happened in Germany in 1930. We can follow how the people were and how they fell prey to it, and how they fell prey to this same kind of gaslighting that's happening right now. So that would be my thing. Practical advice, okay. Take care of yourself, too. Alrighty. Thank you so much, Cynthia. Stephanie, you have any advice, practical advice? I think this is a very good question, and I am taking a left turn from the agenda here that we had for today, but this is a really good question. And what practical advice can or steps can we take to get beyond the disbelief of Donald Trump and our outrage to it, and what practical steps can we take between now and November the 3rd? Well, good question. And I appreciate having that. And this is a good, our whole experience here is a good civic lesson for us. And we're learning about our government. I agree with Cynthia about what she's saying. I find Winston's comments always healing and promising, but I don't see it as a matter of waking these people up, because they'll always be there. And we will, they are our neighbors and and relatives, and we have to learn to live with people have a totally different perspective on this thing. So they're going to be there. Now they happen to be empowered than even though they're in a minority. So we do have to contend with with that and learn better how to communicate and work together. But most importantly, we need to do what the Republicans have done. And that's why we have Donald Trump. Because what have they done? They've gerrymandered, they've taken every level, the judges are conservative, we're going to get to a point where there won't even be any birth control. I guess we just use the Trump birth control method, which is don't get the frank pregnancy test, right? But I think that, you know, if we don't start enacting every level of our governmental system and our tools that make make it work, the levers, we're going to be continuing with this and we're not going to be anything anymore. So just like what the Republicans have done, they've been very, very ambitious and smart about commandeering all of these levers and a very good example is, of course, the gerrymandering. They're already working on it again to try and keep the census less than we really are so that they'll still have control over the money that's going out and who's going to get it. So it just runs right up from civic level in the cities and counties and rural and testing and counting there, right on up to having our whole country run by a Republican judges who have no court experience and have never even tried a case. But they have the right credentials. So I recommend that we learn from this and take the civics lesson that somehow our schools have neglected to give us enough of and start to get busy to support the work at those levels that will give us who we want to be our governors. All right. Excellent points, Stephanie. Everyone, excellent points. Unfortunately, we've run out of time as usual. I was going to go around and ask you for predictions for next week, but we'll have to wait until next week on that. So I want to thank you, Jay Fidel, Winston Welch, Stephanie Dalton, Cynthia Lee Sinclair. Thanks for joining us on Trump week. See us next week. I'm Tim Appichell, your host, Aloha, everybody.


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