All right, I'd like to refer to our channel. It's our Brian Soko 101 and the hashtag Goi in the morning. Happy New Month, by the way. How's been January for you? Mine has been fantastic. And as well, tell us where you're watching us from. We'd definitely like to hear your feedback on that one as well. And also give you a shout out. And also those that have birthdays. February babies, we are here for you. So the rest assured we're about to have an amazing time together. But we've asked you an interesting question on our socials and it's in regards to online jobs. But ours today is J. Computer Amasim. In my Cooper Pesaki VP. And definitely this is in regards to, you know, there's been so many stories around that. The one that comes to my mind is Remotask. Is it remote? And then plus the word task. So remote task. And then they just create it. But we'll find out later. All right. So in that regard, I'm being joined live by Alban Goono. He's been here before. He's the president emeritus, PUEA. And then Siko Kusa. And also an academic director. And then we also joined live by Goroba Clifford. He's a nursing student still at the Samsung Institution, Karibuni Sana. Happy New Year as well. Happy New Year to you. All right. So let's get into it immediately. History of online jobs. I remember there's a time the president was somewhere. I don't know what he was trying to unveil or I never got into the nitty-gritties. But there were a lot of discussions and memes as well. I remember with my co-hosts, there's a bit of a story. Like, I don't know how to press buttons and then there are losses in my account. What are some of the interesting stories we come across before we get into the serious aspect of it? Here, concerning the same, same story, it has been all over. All over the social media platform when the president was saying that online jobs could take over whereby somebody will be, I don't know, the area where he was and then you just press buttons and then you receive dollars. It's so interesting. But it's not true. It's not true. It's not true. That's kind of misleading because even online jobs, even though I can say nowadays online job is taking part from the fact that technology is advancing, most of the jobs are now taking the online bit of it. But it is not as easy as what people think. Yeah. So it can't just be pressing buttons and then you receive dollars. Exactly. All right, interesting. What have you heard? Okay, okay. On that, here are two stories. Prezzo. How people put it. It's the reality that people put in the memes. You know, you can't just sleep, just press the buttons and dollars just drop. It just shows the way we perceive this thing.  You must just work for money. All right, okay. There's a story we highlighted here of someone who is just seated in the house. In short, what they say is an online job. So the issue is they sleep during the whole day and then they get out of the house and then their life is interesting. They advance from like another first class concierge to another, to another, to another. And the neighbors are like, what is it all about? So you have to realize and adapt something to do with only funds. Do you guys believe that some of these people who are lying to us but they were trying to say money, Forex trading, you know. I have a forex trading account but Zile Magari and Anunua and you had a forex. Yes, forex can give you, I believe, I've met, I've even interviewed professional forex traders but it takes time. You don't just buy a GLE within a month. It's true. It must be really interesting. Do you guys believe that forex trading is different from the real online jobs? People are genuinely earning money and they are working remotely. My opinion in this is that online working is broad. There are different kinds of online jobs that people can do. Starting from teaching, online writing, forex, remote ask, the one you are talking about, the resource is known as VABIT. There are so many of the online jobs. There are sites and apps. Some of them, I can call them sites. There are more sites whereby you own an account then when you log into that account it's more of a site. Then you work from it. Maybe we'll get into details later. There's some that you need another person to connect you so that you get accepted into the site. In fact, like for example the ones I'm calling sites, for example, let me talk about VABIT. You see VABIT and even online writing as others do. VABIT for you to own an account that is a certain amount which is also a good amount of money that you need to pay before you get that account. You pay them so that you get that account? Yes, so they give you that account. That account comes with somebody else details. So you will use it with those details that are there but account is yours. The only thing that will change is the payment method whereby you will include your details there. Now, let's talk to your question. You see online jobs, I understand that in certain occasions someone can just come out of nowhere start an online job and then you see them with cars, big cars, Lexus and the rest. Do you believe it you can be successful walking on line once you could buy MSM at Lexus, GLEs, the first class concierge of Audi's and the rest? Not three months or six months. You can't just wake up and then you tell us you are doing online job and then you succeed. But they have some of my friends who do online jobs and if you analyze their lives it has taken them time but at least where they are right now there is a very big improvement. So I believe it can but some as you said some with blind folders. What is the name of the concierge? The name of online job the concierge then we also need to find out so that people join our parties because if it is giving you that huge amount of money within that short duration we share the secret. Ok, let me know Personally I have done online jobs and currently I am also part of online writing. Did it have big money? It depends with your effort. You started by saying who sleep during the day and then at night they talk about online job. That one happens with online writing because you find in most cases with online writing you get jobs at night because that is where maybe in the western culture different time zones are different. So you will find that that is the time when they are given assignments and then that is when they can send you those assignments you do and then you get paid based on what you have done. They pay in dollars. In dollars but then after they send it it depends with the payment mode you are using. There is PayPal and the rest. So you will find that there are two people here. There is one who owns the account, who receives the orders directly and then does them directly and then there is an intermediary here they say like me because sincerely speaking I don't have an account but I am working with somebody else. So he will receive the jobs but now based on the number of jobs they now send them to you. So after they give you that job let me say an essay or maybe an exam then you are going to be paid according to the pages you handle. Like for example they pay, there are some who pay 300 per page, 350 per page so let's say in a night if you can work on say 10 pages that can only be one article. You bug out something like 3,000 or 3,500 are you getting. Now if you can stay the whole night just working on all this based on your effort and based on how you receive the jobs. So it is possible but then based on your own I don't know that you understand. That's too much work I get it, I get it. And also based on the site you are using, based on the work you are using that is an example of online writing. This is not like verbit because verbit is a transcription thing. You don't just online write. It's a lot in there. What has been your experience Clifford on it? Have you had stories have you like he said he's also done it in the past. Have you also worked as an online something before? Okay concerning online online jobs I think I've indulged into so many of them which ones? Okay I've done on writing the way he has described you by using someone's account. Did it pay you much? Still doing it? Quitted? I quitted for some few reasons. Most people do quitted online. Maybe tell us. With your online writing it means a lot of time. So you find sometimes you cannot balance going to studying and this goes you will translate tomorrow you want to wake up and go for lectures the whole day you must be focused so sometimes you find it's not easy for you to balance maybe during holidays I do get into it during holidays once once but ideally the online job you know it is overrated in a way also because today in Kenya like as youths we want money that's what we want we really want quick quick money you see social media as always brought a bad notion to the society some people some few individuals giving pressure to the youths they pose with big big cars not knowing that I tell you we do forex forex ideally you don't know how this person got these things the way he told you with forex all these things online jobs it takes time and the society have realized that we use one quick money these people come with some good ideas that if you check them these are real deal after one good month no one will know but ideally these are people who are conmen conmen meaning for example I want to give an example these are things called MARA like MARA you are told you invest someone someone gives you a machine to rent you pay 3200 and within 48 hours you will be having around 7000 what machine is that? they bring it in a way like it's a machine you don't know this thing you have not seen it then you just deposit money they trade for you and give you money is it like a site like bitcoin something like that you see bitcoin if you check bitcoin but bitcoin is legit by the way but these people it is it is a legit thing but you see it's not in Kenya somebody came with it and they used the name of the company Walimashawatu they gave them money for a little time then after that they told them deposit money they bring other new offers the moment these people deposited money they told them you cannot withdraw it is an app it is an app it's like you login with your details then they trade for you they tell you they trade for you so you give them a certain amount of money they create an account you create an account you deposit even 1000 with that 1000 you take that machine it's like you are investing with them you take that machine and they give you back the money so they can turn out to be scammers they turned out to be scammers until now and most victims are the youths, the students someone I don't think they will get home back I don't think they will get home back that's how overrated online jobs is right and we will get to the dark side just hold on to your reaction your mindset on the people that we know are living lavish lives and you said behind the scenes they are saying it's forex trading but there is something they could possibly do if you were to just build up in the councils what that could be from your own imagination I would like to click on that one okay do you believe it's forex I don't sometimes it's not forex I don't know how I can call that but in this case I may not be sure although I've heard of certain scenarios where someone cling on online job that I am doing online job but in real sense it's not online job the recent case I had was of a certain boy maybe if I say certain boy I think I am not disclosing anything who was talking of online job what I do is online job I translate behind the scenes this guy has got how should I call it a mama a sponsor in other words or a bless so you find that in most cases the sponsor sponsors this gentleman the gentleman at no point you'll ever find this man without money every now and then he's ever having money at one point he comes with Audi sometimes it's Subaru because the woman has a lot of cars so he's given what he wants today he'll come with this tomorrow with that one if you ask him it's online job if you dig deep now teach me this thing I also want to be like you there are no facts he can't sit down and tell you that this is the online job that I am doing instead he'll keep on rendering in corners he can't tell you exactly so what he does is whatever the service to the woman then the woman gives him gives him what he wants then it must be a rich woman to be honest and where are they found they're not asking for me I'm just asking for the world I've been there because I've never encountered one okay so they may be talking about that but in real sense it's not online job so people must be careful now you can give your reaction because the ones you've seen and I remember it last year but also I don't want to drop on them but there's someone in the public space all the videos only later on to realize that it was only funds but then only funds is making a lot of money for a lot of people and they can just brandish it and call it I don't know if you've heard of it okay you see in life we tend to have something called when you're doing something but you must clean yourself with something that cleans it so that it looks so nice it's fine these people either they are doing illicit businesses these illegal businesses where they sell drugs or whatever and with the youths most youths who are saying they are in forex it's Wamama it turns out to be Wamama most of them are Wamama or Wababa mostly men are the ones who show that I'm doing online trading I'm doing forex and today he posed with a car a different one but if you dig deep down in Apatah it turns out to Wamama and Wababa and since they don't want the society to judge them they will say they are doing forex it must be really nice to just get somebody who sponsors you without like a contract or something and also I believe sponsorship comes with responsibility because at least there's a project you're doing Amma there's something you're giving in return Amma don't want to call me like they call it destiny help us you know if you say your career is not easy to get such a sponsorship if you say sponsorship what do you give in return? it must be really nice and if it is a good sponsorship they will say I'm sponsored but why are they hiding it? can somebody confidently say they are sponsored by someone? it depends on the kind of sponsorship like for the one I'm telling you you have to pay the price I will give let me break it down because this is something that I've encountered so you find that this sponsorship thing you really must pay the price for you to also get the benefits the one I was telling you money the cars and the rest and the price is you need to do according to the way the woman wants and then if you talk about service it's a sexual service and you have to do that you must be equal to the task you serve her the way she wants secondly, it's like you are caged because you are not allowed to have a side chick that is based on this case that I'm talking about I know all the cases might not be equal so this guy in most cases he doesn't he's not committed to a certain lady of his age because of the restriction he has a handler so it comes to the price also so you can say it's nice the way you are saying maybe other stories might be nice but not that particular one so it's not easy what about the ones Nigerians are doing because Tomaske stories and Nigerians and they print money and they come out and they are spending on our ladies and then one of the stories it started with Nigerians what could be happening by their own line are they also scamming people using the word forex trading yeah, of course the way he said people do have defense mechanism so that they are not so that they cover what they are doing inside so there is also I don't know what they call it but it is the same thing because what they are doing what they are portraying outside is not exactly what is inside what they are doing inside so you find that what they do I don't know whether it's a ritual thing because they are killing people you find that body parts are missing and the rest and then in return there is a benefit that they are getting from their own side so you can kill someone to get money is that not a sacrifice or something it is but then you will find that you are paid to do that maybe I am paid to do that like the case that was circulating in social media there is a guy who pretends that he is fishing for ladies then after he gets you then maybe you go to BNB or somewhere you mentioned Airbnb I get you to my delete there is no Airbnb for the remaining 4-6 months there is no BNB ok so you find that after you go there maybe they are not even after using you but they are after killing you so that they deliver whatever they have to deliver and then they are paid so he is not so the benefit is the life to be lost and then you get the money but then if you ask this individual person what are you doing that you are ever flowing with money they will tell you that bro it is an online job you will find it and they have all the computer machines because to me it is a more computer so in short also your your gadget is really powerful though but let's come back to the brighter side of it even though there are so many dark sides the stories are online jobs are there maybe any good things that have come out of it most of them are all gone from your online writing and you had to quit but then why did you quit was it not giving you enough money is it not sustainable is it maybe mentally exhausting or time consuming or is it just a time wester it depends with your situation like I said before the reason why I quit was because of the time balancing my time in class and doing the online job but if you are really to focus on this it's paying this is what you are going to do this is why you are putting your energy and it's going to pay you so you could quit nothing and focus on it you had a chance you know career is important I can't quit nothing just for online writing this is something that is not permanent I've heard once that are permanent and they are paying to the minimum of 100 dollars per hour yeah there are those people but at least it takes time for you to reach that point where you are permanent and it's not my passion to do online writing but also online also goes back to story in a content creation I don't know why you skip that but a lot we've seen content creators who turned into influencers and the more you've gone online the more brands start approaching you to do collaborations or even talk about their products do you think that is the more positive side of it as compared to somebody doing an only funds and I remember on my co-host right here at some point I said you better not do that because you're losing your dignity, your sense of self-respect and then she also mentioned it could be even possibly selling your soul and I was like if it doesn't include you exchanging with the devil then do it, you can go to therapy later which is my own opinion though do you guys feel like also things like only funds maybe it's an opportunity but in a in a way let me get back to this content creation thing that we've talked about as a positive side maybe a point we missed before is the definition of online job, you see if you talk about online job it's not only online writing and maybe the verbit and the rest or forex online writing maybe even teachers could be doing online writing or online jobs, they are doing their job online, it's still an online job so if we talk about online job is something broad so to me I may say that the same question you posed to him like do you quit nursing because I'm also a nursing student but I'm done right now so I'm just waiting for my graduation it depends with the online job like I said before sometimes you may consider quitting if at all because there are some that are permanent and some that are not permanent so it depends with the type content creation is also good because people are earning from them you can't say that they are pure content creators who create contents that are genuine and then they earn from it so that's a positive part of it and they monetize the social media platforms like YouTube is one of the biggest Tik Tok Tik Tok is not making that money for us here in Kenya though I understand but still it brings something that somebody can push life with and then also they are at the dark side of this content creation thing and they are also things like cloud chasing and the rest so it really depends with the type of the online part you are doing and it also takes time to even grow a platform event story, the sponsorship it comes in I don't know if you've heard I think I don't want to mention the name but he was sponsored to talk about some certain things that were not in line with what Kenya believes or holds in high regard as morals but yeah you see you'll still need another sponsor to boost you up so that you do your content now but the time you're monetizing it it's also taking time do you believe parents especially right now in the day we live in today they would hold you with so much respect if you told them hey dad I'm quitting nothing today I just want to be an online content creator but then you convince them that you made a thousand dollars the first time you got into it they will believe you and they'll support you but come behind the scenes you're doing only funds let me come back to you I want to answer these questions starting with the last question you know going to school is not just going for that it's about education education is very broad even if you're doing content creation you're doing online writing whatever online jobs you must have knowledge wisdom is very important knowledge is key to everything you can't just quit schooling because you want to do something how are you going to manage yourself you should acquire skills that will enable you to even do that thing more more serious and in a better way and also when you are talking about content creation you know in this world the only problem with the youths is one thing we really want quick things even these people who are doing content creation they started from somewhere and they progress slowly as long as you are doing the right thing you will always the worst time is the best you will always rise slowly and it's going to pay you even in the tiktok you will see your content and you will get something like an adverse you will do promotions and they will pay you it's not bad and then maybe to add on that the same question you are asking if the parents may believe you it depends with how you bring out your idea you see there are certain parents because right now even the parents know that for you to have money it's not something that you wake up in the morning and then you find yourself having money and then you must prove to them that what you are doing is bringing you money for them to support you like I remember I told you I was also doing online job but the same same a challenge that he was having because you know nursing you sit in class from morning to evening almost every day then if you imagine again sitting the whole night it means you have no sleep so I ended up putting it on hold a bit but then I remember when I was sharing with Dad about the same thing he was posted because I was able to prove to him really what it entails and how I'm going to get this money out of it but then if you talk of online job and yet you can't prove how this money is coming out no one can ever believe you including your parents but I don't think especially so much money a thousand dollars is a lot of money instantly so certain parents they were parents who really value education they can't accept that you quit your education and you want to convince them that this is what you'll be doing for life so much difficult alright there's an interesting comment here and I'd like you guys to react on it let me get it right here here it goes do many things hidden behind this online things but listen these guys they are never straight that's what Sadar was guys who do online trading are never straight I mean I believe on a street forward not like street slash gay alright and I say well you may not go past your own online jobs you may be up there somewhere and you come to Amazon Mara the one you've mentioned and then I can say my Harry Bating really interesting interesting feedback do you want to go online jobs now let me start by also taking you back to what I said some are legit some are not I may also give you a personal experience on online job that also almost made me to give up I was called by a friend and this friend text not calling but he texted me and told me that hey there is an opportunity here that I really want you to grab so come officially dressed we are having an opportunity here that may end up changing your life he told me that they are having an office here in town so I should just come officially dressed then they tell me what it entails so this thing I know some of them some of the people out here have heard about it it's called M Global some name is other term the legendary M Global they scammed a lot of people some call it other things are you among the victims so if people fear these things they are just right they have the right to fear so I went there and then I was being told so many things but then if you look at the people around this gentleman that called me you can be shocked because they are ever on suits they post with big cars if it's not giving them money there is something else behind that M Global you see this friend of mine who texted me I know him he is my boy he is from high school but then if you look at his life and what he is posting in social media about M Global so different did you realize there is something he was doing from what he is telling me you must convince people to join that particular organization for you to earn it's an online thing so the more people you bring to you they call it a tree the more people you bring to you that's the point the point I also want to bring out so if you bring people to this tree of yours that's when you are earning and for you to convince someone to join you need to brand yourself in a way that this thing is playing so you find this man sometimes he hires suits sometimes he goes and hires a car then he drives then he takes a picture so soon I will be like this man join this is an online marketing thing you bring people you network that's what they call it you network so it's true some of these things are so much misleading but then on the contrary I also know of legit online writing like the one who I work for this gentleman who you still work for currently yeah right now I have resumed the online writing bit of it this man has got three accounts you see these three accounts who works for him and maybe one particular essay can be able to earn him let's say something like 6000 just one essay 6000 because you are doing it it's like an assignment you are doing to a certain student in a university in the western culture so you find that this person out of the three accounts maybe after let's say like he was telling me that the last time we talked which was last week he was targeting a saving of a million and by that time he was 6000 but if you look at what this man is doing surely this guy sometimes he doesn't sleep I've stayed with him and I've seen sometimes he translates just writing purely writing and it's genuine and you can't testify yeah but then you see this guy is struggling he was just waking up and he tried to convince people that join this tomorrow you are going to have this he works he tells you that if you can't bear translating to do this writing just quit so people must be sure of what they are calling online you should be clear you are coming to do writing and it entails one to three tasks and this certain amount of money is it also paid in dollars and also per hour or per finished task per finished task and then these tasks they have deadlines like this guy before he will give you the task and then he will give you a deadline one hour earlier to the deadline so that you can submit him the work and then he goes through it he sees if there is a problem so if there is a problem he can be able to work on it before the one hour deadline and then he sends it so after sending it there is an invoice that will be generated so out of that invoice he is getting paid in terms of dollars and then after the money gets into his paper then he can be able to convert it back to Kenyan shillings and then once he is paid you will just calculate on the number of papers you did and then he will give you a share out of it and then he remains with his and then from there this man has now opened because he did computer science he has opened up a video company like he does video shooting so you see from his he fought can I answer the question of if this online job is a cult I can say it is a cult from the definition of a cult even the bitcoin is a cult even a politician can be a cult you see this is something that a cult is something that baffles the minds of the people you can confuse you can't think you only think on this thing so it is a cult so you see these people are very wise the society today they really want something that can bring money to them imagine when you buy a car then after few some few hours you receive something on top of the money that you deposited that way daily and you are not even sweating you are just in your house clicking on the computer the way the president did just click on the buttons and you find money will you not go for it you will because you really want money is it come is it go but you see these people are very wise they know this what the society wants so they will come with something very nice very nice very nice to you but their target is to wash I was thinking about the word wash wash where does it come in maybe you can still wash wash and you are not talking about what wash wash is you know wash wash is a very big term to define so many ways of getting money fraudulently like you see we politicians are wash wash these people they do some weird businesses they come to sell drugs but since these things are illegal they will take this money this is a friend by their this is a true story this is a bank here in Westland I am forgetting the bank I don't want to mention it I don't want to mention it that's where they go and that's where they receive those cash because you can't receive something like one billion you must state clearly where you are getting this money since they are doing these illegal businesses so they were told you just go and register in this bank we will be sending money through your account then we will be sending to us you will be taking 50% or 20% of that money you take that 20% the rest you send to them so they agreed with the bank to have that transaction that bank doesn't it's not concerned with how you get your money how much you are going to withdraw how much you are going to deposit you receive that money then you send to them as a clean money on the other side they are the ones sending you the money they are sending you the money through that you account so you are the guinea pig then you send to them they want you to send to them then you remain with the agreed percentage that's why you hear these washwash people they are very wise they know when you go you start scrutinizing them you will find that they receive money from different people they will tell you we did this business that's why you can't get it that's the type of washwash that you hear so you are saying it's a quarter of an hour they scammed somebody abroad a whole company down but the money is sent through you must be really nice though but if you don't agree if you don't do to their times and agreements they definitely take you away that's why they kill people because there was a story two years ago there was somebody who was living a lavish life and then it was in Kilemani and then they took the money from the car garage exactly what could have possibly happened now that you have brought it up I don't know that story even in news deal gone sour you see when you are in agreement with someone if you don't do the way they want they must do something then it means they are evil exactly the first place they are evil but why did you don't realize that initially these people will murder you it's part of the contract they will not tell you you are signing this but just another day they will annihilate you yeah sometimes it happens and like he has said in most cases this people are wise they will come to you they will convince you until you won't be able to see what's forthcoming they will sugar coat everything how evil this thing is but they just sugar coat it so you won't be able to see it so when things start turning out to be different then you start not complying I want to give you 100,000 this is pocket money spend it for the weekend they will convince you they tell you money is not our problem so you see these people are kind hearted so you go ahead you use that money then you forget about the deal that you are supposed to deliver if you fail to do that then this way you start here in case someone has been murdered I am just a certain young guy in my life they are no more yeah you see also Sakwa let me share this before I also forget there was also an interesting story about a gentleman who was also talking about online work that he's doing you asked me this question but I wasn't thinking so let me bring it out so he was talking about him doing online jobs but then the kind of online job I don't know what he was doing with those staff he was a lady then you spend the night together then you have some intimacy sexual intercourse together but then after the act for those who were caught in that trap you are not allowed to take shower after that what he will tell you is there is a small towel that he will give you and then he will want you to wipe yourself with that towel who is wiping the lady the lady wipe with that then maybe if it was money however the agreement you had but his point of interest is this towel then as a lady you leave the house you leave that towel because that is his property so definitely you leave it there as you will be going he will take this towel then he delivers you see then he gets money but then now if you ask this gentleman bro where do you get money prove to me where someone can take a towel that somebody has used to wipe that's a ritual but then he calls it online job so people must be so keen with this online thing online jobs can be misleading so much you made me remember there is an interesting story of a member of this lady I don't really care I don't give a damn there is a chick named Jack and then I said you are jealous then later on it was part of an online syndicate where these ladies were gathering in fact it's a whole community it's online it's like an app or a website related to escots you go you do your video you do your all shebang and then the video is recorded or sometimes it's also like alive I don't want to mention that outside though so you can have an account but it's a job and it's online so you can still call it online job but then the money is good but then also you are dancing you know so it happens so there's a lot of things in that online space yeah what I can urge people particularly the youth who are after easy money easy money is never easy easy money is never easy so before someone tells you about online job sit down with this person and evaluate everything let this person show you exactly how this money comes out or else you will find yourself in a tricky situation I don't know what eventually happened with these ladies who eventually got used because they wanted easy money because this guy will after he's paid money from wherever he is he comes back with that particular huge money then he'll give you as a lady so people must be so careful because what comes out might be so detrimental to your own personal health or your own well-being even your family if it's chaotic then definitely they're taking something from you in the name of online job who in the canyon as we have like two minutes to go who in the canyon celebrity space that have you suspected Misha is here or in those lines of work it's a public figure Misha is here have you ever heard anyone but it's out there what is already on the street see it in a series and specifically I can't point someone that I've had but rumors goes out with so many celebrities and with my own evaluation with these celebrities I can't they are the one giving us the pressure the pressure they are giving us is not the good pressure they have something behind whatever they are doing that makes them money but they will tell us we have this and this which will scrutinize what these people are doing they are really doing something tangible something that if you tell someone someone will just accept is it sustainable do you believe people from Ushago can start working online and make money okay and who can lead them to the right side in 30 seconds the people in Ushago they can do but it is limited due to internet access electricity but your mobile phone is already a full blast internet computer yes but you must have power every time many areas they have that challenge but at least they can try we have to go let me just read around 4 I will give you a social very fast good morning good morning thank you thank you good morning thank you thank you so much good morning good morning good morning good morning good morning say how to call me wow she has just arrived good morning thank you good morning thank you thank you thank you thank you thank you thank you thank you thank you thank you thank you thank you thank you thank you thank you thank you thank you thank you thank you thank you thank you thank you thank you so much into it, but I'm working on it. All right, yeah. OK, Instagram or the Ember Clifford YouTube. I'm TikTok, Yasuba, and YouTube, not too much. But they're both of you are nurses, and you come from the same institution. We were talking about Maliza Shule. Welcome for the year. Yes. So it's like the nursing space is being taken over a lot by men, right? Have you realized that? Yeah, yeah. And how is it? So far, you've done your first internship? Not really. I'm waiting to get posted for my internship. All right. How are you seeing it? OK, yeah, nothing is good. And actually, it's going to be overtaken by men the way you say it. Which is a good thing or a bad thing? It's a good thing. Oh, it doesn't matter. It's a good thing, but let me say it's a good thing. All right, hold it there. It's a good thing, period. It's a good thing so that we exit, because it's already 10M. So Sana, thank you so much for watching. This has been MCM on the hashtag Goa in the Morning. Advaitu for 4 Channel. And Ahmad Bryan, Sako on 1. We'll definitely see you tomorrow for Health and Entrepreneurship Tuesday. See you tomorrow. Have a fantastic Monday.


host today, Martha Teeter, on In the Studio. And today, our topic is a new program that started in April 2017 called Pathways to Employment. And my guests today are Bill Pride, who's the executive director of Davis Community Meals and Housing, and Julie Jenkins, who is an employee of the new program. Welcome to In the Studio. Thank you. I'm so glad you could be here today. So Bill, will you tell me a little bit about this program, Pathways to Employment? Well, Pathways to Employment is our newest program. It started in the planning stages about April of 2016. It was a collaboration of the city of Davis, the county of Yolo, local service-based organizations, faith-based organizations, Chamber of Commerce, and other folks and individuals in the community who wanted to provide a program to provide employment to homeless and low-income individuals. And we've been involved in the planning since it began, and we officially hired staff, program employees as of April, and they've been working on the streets of Davis since. So Davis Community Meals is then contracting with these other... We're the operators, basically. You're the operator, she's running a program. Running a program, yes. And what kinds of things are they doing? Well, initially, we started off with folks doing beautification of the downtown area. I mean, they've already done one round of cleaning of the blocks that we've identified as the downtown area. We're hoping, we're gonna be starting a second round, we just hired some new employees the last few days, three new employees, and we're gonna start redoing the whole downtown again. We're hoping to expand the program in the immediate future to other opportunities for folks, whether it's working with some of the downtown businesses providing us with other employment opportunities or volunteer opportunities, or other employers in the Davis area. So I know right now, we've actually talked to the city about doing graffiti abatement. That's probably something we're gonna be doing in some portion of town at some point. And hopefully from there, it's gonna expand to other opportunities. I see, I see. So tell me about the intent of the program. Is it actually to have them have a regular job, or is it kind of a stepping stone? It's a stepping stone program. It's certainly not, it's not full-time employment. It's generally about 10 to 12 hours a week. It's giving folks an opportunity to get back in the workforce. Many folks who've been homeless for a long period of time have not been employed for a lengthy period of time. It's an opportunity for them to become a little more self-sufficient than where they're at, learn some job skills, better socialization on the job, get motivated to find different jobs. And hopefully through contacts we'll make through merchants and other businesses in downtown in Davis, we'll open up some job opportunities for the folks. So it kind of provides a hand up to a step up to more permanence. It's a step up for folks. We've already had one gentleman move on from the program into a permanent job. Wow, really? And so we've had some success already and we're hoping to have more as the coming months come up. That's excellent. So you mentioned beautification. I think we have a couple of slides of some people actually working out in the community. I think you're in one of them, Julie. So this is, I think out on D Street, where they're cleaning up some dried weeds, it looks like, and taking them away. And then we have another picture where looks like it's all pretty clean there. That's really great. So that's you there out on the street. Yeah, yeah, great. So tell me a little bit about your participation in the program. What it's meant to you, that kind of thing? Well, I participated in New Pathways, which brought a 20-year-old chronic with homeless persons out of the street into a home. It gave me hope that I could actually become a working part of society again. I wrote that I'd like to pay my taxes and be a part of my community. And I feel I am a part of this community, even though I was homeless before 20 years. Okay, being homeless was very difficult, but when you have a roof over your head and people there showing you the way, you can become a part of our world again. Reintegrating the homeless back into our workforce is a very important thing. Wow, yeah.  And everybody's kicking you, everybody. And then nobody giving you a shot at anything.  Just like that. So being back at home gave me the hope and the courage to be able to reintegrate back into the world. And that means very much to me, a lot. Because I've been a nobody for 20 years, they say. To be a part of my community again is makes me feel worth something, you know? I mean, worth it. Because they certainly make us, police won't defend us. They won't help us. But if you live inside, they help you. And now you're living inside? Oh, yeah, I have a nice apartment. Okay. I have a nice job. Fantastic. I have a lot of hope. Yeah. That's what they saw, a lot of hope that with the world it's going to change. They are going to help us. Right. And Bill Pride and Becky have done wonders. And you know why? Because they treat us like adults. Mm-hmm. And they trust us. That really makes a difference. And we never betrayed any problem with that. Mm-hmm. And reintegrating us back into the workforce is important because everyone should pull the wrong way. Yeah. Working is important. When I work, I feel like I'm accomplishing something. Like I have a life. Mm-hmm. Being homeless, I had no life I could only survive. Being an animal on the street. Wow. Being treated like an animal on the street. Okay, so it's really important what they're doing. And it does work. It really does. So you mentioned if they find you're homeless, you get fired, but when you have a job, it makes you feel better about yourself. Like you're pulling your own weight. Of course. Oh yeah. But you can't get there if there's a barrier. If they won't give you a chance. Yeah. The police won't, they don't serve and protect us. They kick us. They won't help us. That's not good. But Bill Pride has put his foot forward on that. Yeah. And helped us. Excellent. And I believe this program will work. Yeah. And it's because he treats us like people. Mm-hmm. Not like animals. That's great, that's great. Now you mentioned the new pathways program. Bill, can you tell us a little bit about that program? Well, new pathways is considered to be a housing first, harm reduction type model program. It's a small program we operate now for about a year and a half or so. Open in February of 2016. It's a small program providing housing to four folks. And they're living in a small home in Davis and we're providing them wrap-around case management services. Okay. And lots of opportunities to become housed and become self-sufficient. And it requires them to get, obligates them to be eligible for the housing choice voucher program. So hopefully that'll make it easier for them to move into housing in the short term. And you were a graduate of that program. Oh yeah. And I live in a really nice place. That's great. I'm very lucky. Really, I'm very blessed. And I appreciate every bit of everything they've done. Yeah. Wonderful, wonderful. So we had talked, you mentioned a little bit about other kinds of jobs because getting out there, well particularly in this heat and getting out every day, it's kind of really very physical work. So other job opportunities I think might help. And I understand you're hoping to invite the businesses. We're gonna be reaching out to local businesses, and merchants, and employers, and Davis in the next month or so. And trying to find more volunteer opportunities for our Pathways Employment staff. And also hopefully having some folks step forward to offer some permanent employment to some folks. I mean, it's always surprising to find out how many folks that have been homeless for periods of time actually have job skills that they can use, whether it's construction, whether it's landscaping. It's a real variety of folks. And so they all come from all kinds of educations and backgrounds. And it'd be great to have them be able to find a way to get into jobs where they've already had training. And if not, then hopefully some jobs that they can perform in and perform well in. Yeah, good. So it'll be good to have a variety of not just everybody out on the street every day. But boy, those streets need it. Yeah, yeah. I mean, and it really helps. Now I understand that at the city council, they made beautification of downtown a priority. So this, in fact, program fits right in. Oh yeah, and the priority. The business is downtown. We're cleaning the other blocks, the hot dog always comes out and he says, hey, he is a hot dog. And then he says, thank you so very much. They come out, they appreciate us being there. Oh, that's wonderful. They care about it, you know? That's really wonderful. Yeah. Yeah, so there is a website that tells a little bit more details about the program. I believe there was an article in the enterprise. And so people can go to that website, employment.pathways.org. And I believe there's a section where they can get more involved. Yes, we have opportunities for people to donate. If they have projects they'd like our folks to kind of work on, we can talk about that. And like I said, hopefully we'll get more of the community involved to provide employment opportunities for many of the folks we have in our program. Mm-hmm, mm-hmm. So they could donate money and there's a list of items they could donate. There's items we need, there's certainly dollars would be a great help, donations, you know, so I mean, it's a wide variety of ways for folks to get involved and help out. Right. And I understand, I'm sorry. They could come out and stream talks with. Yeah. And they see who we are. Yeah. And I guess some of the businesses are doing it. Oh, yeah, we've had a couple extra jobs, you know, on weekends and things like that. They come out and talk to us and they're all open-hearted people. They are. Davis is a wonderful place. Oh, that's great. And I think probably the person-to-person contact is really important. It is. Because then they see who you are.  Which counts. Right, right. That's really great. Yeah, and so as I understand in the program, there might be different kind of opportunities. Like I understand that you've just been made a lead worker. Oh, yeah. So, yeah. Yeah, I'm crew leader, yeah. Yeah, so. That's wonderful. Yeah, it made me so happy to be there. Yeah. I felt so good about giving promotion and a raise. It was sickle-pink, okay? That's great. I was really happy. That's great, yeah. And maybe at later stages, other kinds of supervisory skills. It's good to get involved in supervising other folks. Learning how a work environment works with other folks and kind of dealing with all the issues that kind of come up. And it's certainly good to have Julie here who's been a wonderful success in our programs. And performs with other folks. It has a great direction of life. Yeah, that's really great. Yeah, well, we're honored to have you here on the studio. And it sounds like there's a mutual appreciation. Oh, yeah. You very much appreciate what this program has done for you and all the people at Davis Community Meals. That's so much for me. And Bill appreciates you. And well, we appreciate you very much coming in, both of you. And I hope that people feel like now they can have a sense of what they could do here to help solve this problem in a very constructive way. So we wanna thank you for joining us today. And we hope you will go to the website and learn a little bit more about it. And I think there will be updates, including this very show on that website very soon. And find other ways where you can be involved in helping out with homeless issues. So thank you so much for coming today. Thank you, Martha. And thank you for joining us on In the Studio.


Thanks for checking out this unboxing video As you may notice right off the bat my energy level is not the same as usual I may look kind of tired The lighting is not the best because I'm trying to mess with the natural light and the way the Sun's coming in but You know not feeling well today, but I'm gonna push through this because I just got the November box of dread. I know you may be saying November box. It's January 3rd Yes, they've been having some problems and A lot of people have been real upset about it It's like a shipping issue that they were having with a UPS and their account and stuff like that So prior to that I think in October they were having problems with getting their items to them for packaging everything up And they've had a few issues, but they're really Excuse me Sorry They're they're pretty small organization. They don't have many people doing anything plus. This is a really cheap box So, you know, I understand those types of things will happen here and there So it's not that big of a deal.   It's not their fault What people are upset with though also is that they've still been each month charging cards So at this point people have paid for November December and January and people are just getting their November box That is bad form and that is concerning Because you shouldn't be charging people if they're not getting the product There could be a really big issue like say and I hope this doesn't happen But say they were to go under like now people would still be owed two boxes that they may not have so It's an issue but anyway, I'm gonna unbox this November box. Hopefully it's a good one and And we'll go from there. I'm just looking for the future, you know Yep, that's right box with a box. I forgot because it's been a little bit the box of dread box Love this box design. I think it's cool Hopefully this is good and worth the wait as it's over a month or a tissue paper Nice red tissue paper. My cat will be happy with a variety because she's just used to getting the black ones from Bambox All right, so here's a this might be some sort of like mystery mini or Titan vinyl Edward scissor hands the I'm not finished collection. It is a Titan vinyl.  I don't understand what that is Ice Angel Investigate I'm sorry inventor. I'm reading backwards on this so it's hard and then two more Edwards and a Kim It's a lot of Edwards in this. It's kind of weird. Let's see what we got Hopefully it's one. I'm like that's fine See if I can figure this one out. This might be tough. I really want to get the T-Rex one, but I don't feel I think one of the arms is up and one of the arms is down or something there's something like a ball or something in there Or maybe it's like a scissor hand. I don't know It's odds are it's one of the Edwards So let's find out Yes, I was right about the odds Oh and his scissor hands are separate. That's interesting. So it's looks like this is just the There's so many versions of him Okay, he's the two and 20 one of the two and 20s. So Just look weird They just look weird to me. I mean I'm sure there are people who like it, but it just looks weird. Let me put the scissor hands on though. Just to complete it I don't understand why the scissor hands have to be separate seems a little odd to me But they have to be separate.  Yeah, they're going They look like a little odd for a moment Okay, I mean they fit on there pretty well So there now he's got his scissor hands. You can see Which look pretty good And put them out.  Don't need those Anyway, next thing Not big thing. There's like a book. Oh my god. I hope this isn't a journal.  Oh Thank goodness. It's it. Why did I think this it's a DVD? Totally fine with that totally down a little glare there totally good with DVDs radius Radiate radius, you're not feeling well. Don't get too close is what it says. Oh All right, so you can take a look at it now read it Following a car crash a man wakes with no memory as he seeks help. He discovers only dead bodies He soon discovers the horrible truth any living thing that comes within a 50-foot radius of him dies instantly I don't really like that premise, but it was a flat Jesus a selection at Fantasia film festival at a selection for Fright Fest London fantasy film Fest and Fantastic Fest now like that necessarily means anything But I mean always willing to give it a try like I never have a problem when I get a DVD because I can watch it and Don't have to like it. It is what it is All right, the next thing is a bigger thing. It's on top. So I got a okay Okay, nice actually I'm happy to get this. I've seen this in another box before when a Horror block was around they got this item So it's a Vincent Price mini bust As you can see and it's done through rumorg rumorg magazine, which I'm a big fan of I love rumorg magazine been a subscriber for about nine years now, I think So Sorry, it's gonna be a lot of noise It's heavier than I thought I thought this wasn't gonna be all that heavy Yeah, so you can actually hang this on the wall too It's a little Hard side to see try and get the lighting right so you can kind of see features, but oh there we go My arms not in the way. Yeah, so it's Vincent Price As you can see there's a place to hang it on the wall, which is cool The only thing it kind of sucks about this is there's not a whole lot like there's a decent amount of detail on the sculpt but like It's black and then like one little red thing I feel like this should be painted a lot more to be significantly better It's not bad.  It's kind of cool I remember seeing it and kind of thinking like maybe I want to get that. It's kind of cool I like Vincent Price a lot. He's done obviously did some awesome stuff, but that's cool. I'm down Next thing This is probably oh my god Why are we still doing this? Didn't they just do this? This happy Halloween from horror book of the year author Joe Chianakis For a rabbit in red and burn the rabbit and there's like digital versions on the back So there's codes Stuff like that it's There I swear they already did this they already did this I don't like to see repeat things like that and it seems like Potentially the last thing and item in here is a comic book It's back to board it. Is it bored? No, it's not boarded, but no Steve good authenticity ash versus the army of darkness and it's a special one done for a box of dread First issue. That's actually really cool. I like that a lot.  There's a certificate of authenticity Who's it signed by? This by dynamite comics, I assume it's like either the person who did the artwork on the front or Who wrote it? Let's see if I can figure out what the I Can't tell people's I Think it's Maro Vargas actually Would be my guess Yes Yeah, the as you can see the autograph here, there's like a really Small like light autograph in the actual piece of art down here that you're not gonna be able to pick up on there I don't think you can barely see it, but it's the same person. So it's the person who did the the cover art That's cool. I actually like that a lot Honestly, I like this box. I Like it especially for the price like 20 bucks and you got this bust You know this bust the Titan vinyl, which you know, like I said, I don't like but plenty of people do a DVD and this like Exclusive signed Comic book. That's pretty cool. That's good for 20 bucks. I mean honestly so So they they've been doing these curator things so I guess who do they have curated this time? It might be John John Condit. Yeah, the guy who mainly runs box of dread So yeah, he just like I'm not gonna go through all this stuff of like all the choices for it But I think it's cool that they kind of do a write-up and I kind of say like we included this because of this and you know All that stuff. So that's cool. Um, overall, I like this. I'm happy with it I you know, obviously wish it would have you know showed up on time But you know stuff happens. So I'm gonna keep trucking with this. Hopefully I get my December one relatively soon If anyone a box of dread sees this, I'm not hating on you guys Like I still like you looking forward to what you're doing. Like I said, this is a good box but He'd what people are saying about the charging ahead if they people haven't gotten their boxes Because people get really touchy about that and it is kind of crappy just saying but this is nice. I'm fan Thanks everyone for checking this out. Thanks for box of dread and John Condit for doing what you do And like I said looking forward to December rocks whenever I get that and until next time everyone keep it brutal


oh that means way dead oh that is a huge pile up behind me we are here on the streets on the highway we're gonna go driving with this and see what we can do not something I normally do but we figured we'd hop on and do it so make sure you guys follow me on social media on the description box below let's get to it see we can't follow these two GTRs so I do have names on which I probably should have turned out cuz I was trying to find out you know of course what is actual players and what it's not since I've never been on this before so this is new for me try not to die oh that guy is locking up everything I guess we'll just fly right past them right now we are in the S15 just going straight through traffic at 194 miles an hour we're gonna slow up a little bit GTRs catch up all they've been died oh that means way dead oh that is a huge pile up behind me so this like I said this is not something that I normally do but we are here trying it out I've been seeing a lot of people commenting about this and having a lot of fun with this so we're here slow down a little bit so we don't die definitely got a handle on this S15 it's quick and we haven't died yet so we're gonna go until we die it's a lot of traffic but unfortunately we're not with any other players but we are just dive bombing the streets right now in this S15 oh okay no oh we're good we are good whoo I swear thought we were gonna actually just die my clip now we probably would have in real life but don't let go the wheel oh there's a hatch oh geez oh god yeah we're dead well we're gonna spot back pits see we can't find another car to chase okay somebody is just roasted in the tires I mean I could do that too if these guys want to play a little bit so we got GTRs 2k gotta misshift it there I'm trying to keep up with this S2000 I'm trying to stay right behind it I'm gonna shut the headlights off so I don't blind it oh split the cars that's one problem with following right behind somebody can't actually see the cars we got this oh we cut me over here alright cut back there we got this okay I almost I didn't do the back bumper of that car what did he break oh he's gonna kill that man oh he's dead he's dead oh no no oh and that's what happens of dadly here get clipped by one of the cars and unfortunately you're done snark I can't tell if this is a player I don't think that's a player we've got show right here and see if we can't oh there's that s2 kid hide last time S2000 MR2 so something different here on the channel if you guys like to see the guys want to see more let me know down in the comment section down below there's a lot of fun things I like to do I'm gonna do more here on Chajoko with nighttime and stuff like that I'm gonna try to chase the MR2 right next to me though we're not gonna fit man we did fit though oh that man just died got a little cruise going just cruise a bit to 7R2 so we're gonna this not died by that evil that super just showed right up number two was quick I think he hit the brakes a little sooner than he wanted to is now we have a huge gap on that man oh man this is too much fun something totally different we're gonna change up cars maybe get in a different car so get you guys back when we get in a different car we decided to pull out the very aggressive Supra so we're gonna go full-size with this if we can get some people here to go against so if you guys want to keep seeing more of this here on the channel let me know down in the comment section down below because it is something that I've been doing a lot of thinking about coming and doing stuff on here so we're here it looks like we got a bit of us we got a civic we're gonna go against I'll take it okay well super sounds good oh boy I'm gonna catch this turbo civic should be that big of an easy issue to catch him okay okay oh man I'm just yes that's a curse about slow it down with the civic cheese we just got haunted so this super feels like the back ends a little tail happy to see if maybe we can a little sideways maybe on an off-ramp definitely got what sounds though oh boy it's definitely a weird feeling in the wheel that I'm noticing with it but maybe that's just that's carrying this car cuz I didn't feel it in the s15 that's not gonna work that did not work as well as I'd hoped never been this way though I knew that car was gonna break loose on me oh man I need to bring a drift car out here and see if we can't do some drifting in this on this track so I say if you guys want to see more of this here on the channel let me know down in the comment section down below or if there is a specific server that you guys think I should hop onto let me know down below as well just exploring this map is definitely something I'm gonna be excited for because I said I've never actually taken a look at this map or driven it so this is all new for me oh yeah we need to bring a drip car out here yep we need to bring a drip car out here and see if we can't drift some of these high-speed quarters so I think that'll do it here for this episode here on a set of courses something different Shintoko revival project coming to the channel super does not drift very well thanks guys for coming back and watching I'm evil rabbit I'll see you guys on the track


Hi everybody, welcome to this 4th or 5th UXC meeting. So this is mostly a catch-up meeting, so first of all I will start with the introductions. I believe we all know each other. Maybe I don't think Vadek and Fernandes have participated in previous meetings. So just hello everybody, I'm coming from the Jenkins security team, so mainly concerned about the potential aspect that could be worse for us in the future. Hello everyone, just another cloudless engineer participating in an open-source team within the company and just trying to help in anything that I can. Okay, the rest of us haven't introduced ourselves like three times now. Felix, would it be possible to put the agenda up on the screen? Yeah, sure. Sorry, no problem. Okay, so now, well I start again the second point. First point, general review topic. The agenda for today is first, I will introduce the created tickets on the open-source data tracker. I created an epic as Oleg requested a few meetings ago. I will show the issues created. Then I will give a quick update on the UI progress. After that, Joe will show the design deck featuring the full-page mocks that were requested a while ago and also talking about what's next in regards to the typography. I will follow up on the typography. Then Joe, we will talk about basically the results of the poll of Slack versus Gitter and the follow-up actions needed. And then Uli will raise a point, raise a concern about the Woodstrap 3 grid. How can we do a Woodstrap 4 version? Well, Uli would expand better. Are we missing any agenda item? Does anyone like to add any agenda item for today? Okay, since we can start. Okay, so starting with the... I have created an epic on the open source data tracker which contains all of the tasks and user stories basically related to the project under the scope of the SIG. Right now, I retroactively added the JS Builder one to this epic. Mostly, there's one user story for each UI item and then a few support ones such as this one which is a toolchain enhancement and another minor one which is renamed the root breadcrum. Maybe, yeah, this is just to show these issues to everybody. Maybe somebody would like to discuss whether, for example, this last one, the renaming the root breadcrum could be marked as beginner friendly or in case we want to give it priority or something. Yeah, just to share with everybody that this is here and I welcome everybody to take a look at it and please correct the any description or anything. Does anyone would anyone like to comment on this topic or say something about this? Okay, let's go ahead then. Next item. UI work progress. Okay, so basically this print... Since last meeting, we have created the header and breadcrumbs PR. There were lots of comments, we did some work addressing those. It's a work in progress but little work is left before we can go to a full review status. There's one thing, for example, that we saw that we will do a little increase to the scope of it. For example, we noticed that the footer is the same color as this breadcrumbs. So we are probably going to go ahead and also change the color of the footer because again it doesn't make much sense to have just this footer being of this color. It looks off. Moving the UI tool to them. Okay, does anyone like to comment on this before moving on? Okay, good. After on a separate PR, we are considering to enable right now. Right now, the UI, the new UI is toggled on Java property at Jenkins start time. So we are considering adding a runtime toggle probably in the admin panel to enable or disable the new UI. So we are considering it doing in the manage Jenkins section so that system administrators could enable the flag for the whole system. So this is what our plans are basically to make it a bit more usable than just a Java property. But we welcome any feedback on this topic. Does anyone have any comment on this? Any idea? What is the long goal objective there? Because if you look at JIRA, for example, they are proposing the old UI and the new UI. Currently, I'm still using the old UI because I can.  So I still have the possibility to use the previous UI. Do you expect the same thing for Jenkins? Yeah, just to confirm again. So the new UI, the things that are enabled through the new UI for this deliverable, for the children and breadcrumbs, are just this logo section and header color. The rest of the layout and markup will be, are going to go ahead and be in the baseline, in the product baseline. So that's what's opt-in right now. So what is the boundary between the full rewamp innocence and just the breadcrumbs, the header and the breadcrumbs? Because at the moment you are using the system property to enable or disable only the header. But you expect in the next or next next PR to rewamp the full UI innocence or to force the CSS rewamp to everybody if I understand correctly. Yeah, so right now what we are going to, it's decided on a component per component basis. Right now it was decided in a previous meeting that we are only hiding the theming behind the feature frame because it was requested that Joe presented a full vision through full page mocks before considering changing the default theme of Jenkins. So that's why we keep the old school view. But it's mostly a theme, the old UI folder is just a theme. For example, look at it here. Then after this, it will be decided on a component per component basis. Basically, if we determine that changing a component is risky and it can break something, it will be hidden behind the feature flag. That's going to be the reasoning. Okay, just that I'm not seeing the advantage to have a real switch in the UI if it's just a quick CSS like this. Because the thing is that what you're adding to the UI, it's a bit difficult to remove afterwards due to the compatibility we want to keep and things like that. If you just fit your flag, you add the feature flag, you keep it for six months and then you remove it. There was no impact. Yeah, that's what we, I think everybody, we want to avoid having a two code bases in the long term. So that's why we are a bit proactively trying to make any and all changes final. It's just, I just think we just think it's a bit more usable for users to test the new UI without just going to the admin panel and toggle a checkbox on instead of having to go through all the steps rebuilding the Jenkins instance. And I don't think that toggle will be there. Correct me if I'm wrong Felix, but the intention isn't for that toggle to be there forever. Right, this would be, yeah, this, this, even though it's technically just CSS, but it's obviously a really big shift in the interface for Jenkins. So we want to have, we want to offer that versatility in the short and medium term to be able to switch it off or certain things that might be more questionable might be more breaking adjustments. And it won't be there forever is the intent. Okay, does anyone. Yes, well, because since this is my first meeting probably I'm missing things. It's intended that in the future. Any user, we will be able to choose their own theme or the, or is expected that everybody will see the same styles in the in the, when they, when you access the instance. The intent is not to have a variety of themes. Obviously there are solutions out there for, for applying themes to your Jenkins right now and those are widely loved. But the intent here is to redesign the aesthetics, do a visual refresh of Jenkins for everyone it will look the same essentially between those two options it's that it's that ladder one. It's one one redesign it's not the ability to choose from different themes that's not the goal. Did I answer a question maybe I misunderstood. Yes, no, but no, no, no, it's, no, it's because I, after Patrick's question. I was thinking about the possibility of having the check instead of in the manage Jenkins page in the configuration page for each user so each user can enter and decide if they, if they want one of the styles but if, if not intended. It is just a temporary solution just to make it easier to switch between one, the old styles and the new ones just make more, more sense to add the, the checking the manage Jenkins page as Felix proposed at the beginning. Yeah. And does anyone have any other thoughts on this. Okay. Good. Let's move ahead. So yeah, so basically as front, then we are going to try to add it in the manage Jenkins section. Okay. Full screen mocks. Now I will be sharing my screen to show the full screen mocks with Joe. So we won't run through them right now, but, or the first four slides there but what I can friend if you after this call I always share in the slugs, the SIG Slack channel. This, this deck whatever it looks like and from that call, and those three slides are always there and they give a little bit more context for the project at large, if you want to check those out. So yeah, digging into this one. So this is not from our previous meeting, well from our previous meeting but from also also from the one before that we had conversation around getting a better idea of the goal. Actually, can you go back one step, Felix, or one slide. One more please. Awesome. So we have a better idea of where this is going right so we started off with our first component and naturally the design process was a bit slow there just because this was our first, our first time figuring out how we can do this as a group. Last last meeting we took a look at the impact of these sorts of conversations and of this group, because the design actually changed really dramatically with everyone's input and it was way better off. Great. But we, as a group we've been wanting to see what could it look like you know instead of just looking at a component by component. So there's some pros and some cons to, to designing a full screen muck like this at this stage in the process. Essentially, the only danger for lack of a better word around that is that it can set the wrong, the wrong intention potentially right so we want to make it real clear with these mocks that. These are not set in stone. These designs are going to change and so that's what I'm kind of mentioning on the side there. The goal is to communicate a long term vision for the impact of this visual refresh the CSS phase, but these are going to change right. So just like with the, just like with the header bar, we encountered some technical limitations that impacted the design. I got feedback from all of you that impacted the design which is great. The same thing's going to happen for everything on the screen and the other screen will look at in a second so take it with a grain of salt. But this is what we were, we were wanting to see a couple of weeks back of what we can, we can be working toward. And one of the things that I wanted to do is that I can now use this over in my screen design software as a springboard for designing all these new components just like we had in the last meeting looked at all of the interactive states for the header bar, and all of the different considerations there for designing this one component. Now I have a solid starting place for designing all these other components table styles buttons, what this nav panel could look like. So in this regard, this is a really great exercise to, and this is to give an idea now we can go to the next slide looks. This is the same screen a little larger. And then if we go one more slide. This is what, you know, again, asterisk marks asterisk marks, take it take it all with a grain of salt but this is what we could achieve, you know, potentially with with a bill view for example. So here and obviously we keep our conversation pretty free from here you can interrupt me time, but does anyone have any questions or thoughts on on this stuff. Do you think it wouldn't better if we have some more user interaction in these pages. So, these pages are quite a static. So, what a lot of people ask me is why can't I rearrange these items on the screen for instance so this would be one of the valuable features, if these pages have a concept of dashboard thing where you can put in things and move things off and things like that. That would be really awesome. I'm not sure. But yeah, it does make perfect sense I totally agree. And frankly, taking a step back if if if this were the right phase of this this long term Jenkins project to think through that sort of thing. This this part, these smocks would look very different right in a perfect world and if timelines weren't weren't a factor. I would love to just reconsider a lot about the user experience here because you're right there's so much opportunity for improvement. That said, right now in the scope here is for these mocks is just this visual refresh right just this CSS phase, not changing functionality. That's it I mean that said that's something for the future and and yes I would love to make something like that possible. There's all sorts of great stuff we could dig into we're just not there yet. So for now it is purely aesthetic you're right. Would you be looking at things like refreshing the icons that some of those panels have in the middle. Yes, a little bit different to the rest of the page. Yeah, I think that's a that's a great point. So some that come back packaged within Jenkins would would definitely need to be revisited some that are contributed via plugins would you know I wouldn't have a very much ability to change those and that's okay too. But yes, in short. Yeah. So one example of how this will change. There you go. Cool. Maybe we can toggle back a slide. Obviously, you know we have our sig meetings, one every other week, but conversation is going in slack and soon get her will talk about that in a second. So anytime reach out and let's let's talk about these. And then if we go to the next section of the deck. So in our last meeting we took a look at a new color palette for the Jenkins UI something that is informing the design of individual components and that also inform the design of those full screen mocks. A lot like a lot like a lot of the content we look at this meeting will continue to evolve right it's not perfect yet it will change, but it was created with accessibility in mind for for high contrast UI, and the other item we look that was interactive states. So let's take a quick look at typographic hierarchy. These are the elements of interface design that come together and will inform all of these additional components that we kind of saw early representations of in those full screen mocks like table styles buttons nav, that sort of stuff. So the intended outcome with this is to establish a formal typographic higher hierarchy for the Jenkins UI that improves legibility, and that results in a more consistent experience throughout. So still being defined, and if we go. That's a bit, a bit more context. I know it can be hard to see on the screen but of course you'll have access to this deck after the call.  The font selections that you see here are also not final. This is something we'll talk about in just a second, but we know that Jenkins has very important internationalization needs. And therefore, you know, we can't just go about picking picking fonts just based on on legibility alone that they have to have a certain degree of compatibility with other languages besides English for sure. So we'll talk about that in a second and that's actually it for this deck I think does anyone want to comment on this or have any questions. Just one comment about the heading. In general, we have some trouble when we have something like that that is separated into multiple tier, because often the age five is it in the same size or smaller than the regular text. And it seems to be the case here with 16 and I think 18 for the paragraph body. And in this case, the title or the sub sub sub title is smaller than the text inside the paragraph. So it's something that we have, for example, in Google Doc, it's the same kind of stuff. And if you're digging to be too much into the title level, it's a bit weird. So if we can increase a bit, the smaller title, it could be nice, at least from my point of view. I completely agree. Yeah, so that's something that needs to be fixed here right in no in no example should should a heading level be smaller than paragraph text. So in those full screen mocks. There was a case where that became useful. But yeah, that can't stay totally agree. And one thing I want to mention is what is currently done by a lot of plugin developers is they choose h1 h2 or h3. They choose one thing that they like. So I think it would make sense that everybody starts with h1 and then h2 and so on. But currently one does not select the semantics. Someone selects the font size and that's just a little bit strange, I think, so it makes sense that we define that if you have a new page, then you need to start with h1 and so on. Otherwise, it looks a little bit weird. What we can do really is we, what I always like to do in all my projects, one approach that I found works really well is, for example, I will style the h1 tag, but I will also create an h1 CSS class that I can apply everywhere with the same styles. So I think that's approach works really well. So if semantically somebody wants to put an h3 but they want it to look like an h1, they could use the h1 class. No, that's good. Other than that, my recommendation is to always use the headers, sorry, the heading elements, plain, no classes, just the proper margins, the proper default styles, because it's more homogeneous. But for that, you're right. We need to plug in all those needs and need to have available actual typographic classes. I want to be mindful of the time because I know we have other agenda items. Does anyone else have any thoughts or questions for now? Cool. I think we can probably move on if it looks. Sure. Back to the agenda. For recent typography, just a quick mention of something. Choosing phones. Joe mentioned that we are looking into choosing new phones. Right now we are going with Roboto. Why? Because it's well, basically it was being used also before in the project. It was. Felix, I think you cut out there. I'm not sure if it was just for me. Can you repeat that after Roboto? Sorry. So right now, we chose Roboto. It fits the material design theme. It also was the font already used in the Jenkins project. We are also aware that a huge part of the Jenkins use base, for example, is located in China. So what we are probably going to try is to get in touch with the Chinese localization to get collector feedback or whether there are good font fallbacks for Chinese characters or non-Latin alphabets. And if not, maybe they can recommend a font such as Noto, for example, which is pretty big or something. This is, yeah, this is just to mention that we are aware of this. Anyone want to put anyone like to comment on this?  The right or left, left or right approach is not in the scope of this change for Arabic character and things like that. Are they currently supported in Jenkins? Yeah, concerning the global approach that we want to use here for the refresh of the UI, we are not considering changing the localization strategy in a sense. It's just for the font for the Chinese people that we are carrying a bit more than the other thing. Yeah, it is mostly to see that we don't choose a font that will break existing functionality. That's a good point, Farrak, maybe we can talk about that in future. Awesome. I think we have reached item number seven and I want to make sure we leave time for item number eight, so I'll be quick. In the last meeting, we talked about whether or not we should be having our discussions in Slack or some place that for some people is more central, which is get our lots of pros and cons, which I don't have to go through here, but one of the most important ones being that Slack is in the CDF organization, so it's unpaid and therefore we have to manually archive our valuable technical conversations. Another thing is that all the other SIGs are using Gitter and it makes more sense for more people, so I put a poll up in our Slack and it turns out that Gitter is the preference. I'll follow up for now in Slack after this call and we'll get it sorted, we'll get the group created. I'll be new to Gitter, so I'll figure it out and we'll get that going. But before the next meeting, I think we should be able to transition over and then all of our conversations should be more public too. And that's it for that one. So thanks everyone for voting in the poll. Okay, last item. So we have nine minutes by the way because I forgot to create the room with a proper Zoom account, but we can restart in another room if we run out of time. So Uli, can you please bring up at this point? Yeah, actually, this point is mostly a question if I should do something here, because I'm currently extracting the UI components that I'm using in the warnings plugin into separate UI modules. I've already wrote a mail about that and we had a discussion, we both on the poll request, where I noticed that Bootstrap 4 is not compatible with Bootstrap 3, which we are using in Jenkins. And I tried to get it fixed, but I came from one bug to the next bug because we are using not plain vanilla Bootstrap 3, we are using 24 columns. And so everything is breaking in my plugin if I use this old grid. So I'm wondering if it makes sense if I create a poll request for Jenkins Core that replaces this grid with a Bootstrap 4 version. So I'm not sure if I should make it, because UI changes in core are somewhat complicated because we have no tests, etc. So I just wanted to know if it makes sense, because we're currently maybe breaking other things as well within UI changes. So if we put it also in a poll request or if I should wait for it, so I just want to have some opinions here. Yeah, so yeah, the thing with the 24 column, I don't know why, why is that something I discovered earlier this week. It would make that change incompatible with basically everything. So that's an issue, definitely. That's something because I also looked that there are many plugins which use column 13, column 20. Okay. So that would break. Also, I think replacing the column, the grid system is not viable. We could deprecate it, but it's not viable. My recommendation here would be to create a new grid, maybe a new grid file, and I would name space it. It's rather easy. For example, you will have Jenkins dot call dot Excel dot one something like that Jenkins dot Jenkins dash role Jenkins dash container. That actually by the way that should we should be doing plugins should be named spacing there. Because Jenkins core should name space, its own, its base components. So really what I'm going to try to do is I'm going to try to bootstrap bootstrap provide several mixes to generate a grid, right, several such utilities to generate a grid. With little modification. You could create custom mixes based on those to create a name space grid. So please give me a few days and I will try to get a quick sus mixing a quick success code that will generate a great bootstrap like grid but with namespace classes. Okay. That's fine. Thanks. Just a question concerning warning and G it's for full page layout or for we just that are integrated into the rest of the UI of Jenkins. Actually, it's the last page of the warnings plugin that means if you're leaving the build information page you can open plug in details and on this page I'm using bootstrap for. So you're completely separated from the Jenkins UI at that point. I don't have so can you please repeat sorry. So when you opened the last page you're separated from the rest of the UI. And no I'm not separated because I'm also using the head up all the footer and the links on the left side so it's a little bit more complicated. Okay. Because if you had a completely independent page. Yeah, we can just say we don't care and that's all but yeah. But I don't want to have it this is this way I want to look it should look like yeah Jenkins. Okay. Okay. Any other questions here. I will try to do my best I tried to to make the base layout for the ones and you're planning to not break as much as possible. I left the base styles and the lay out commons in the repo not deleted so that you're planning the plugin can make use of those files. But if you do do try the new changes with the warnings and your plugin and raise any issue and I will do my best to solve it if possible. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Does anyone want to say something else or bring something to attention. Yes, we're going to get recurring meeting set up so that we don't have to have last minute links. Sorry about that. Definitely we forgot to apologize and yeah something that's on us our part we should have gave these a few days notice. Definitely. We apologize for that. But, but that's it for my end. And I'm watching the clock here. Anyone have any other final notes and I'll follow up and select today as usual with links and the getter item. Cool. Okay. Thank you all. Thank you everybody and next meeting will be two weeks from now. So which day will it be 2021. Thanks everyone. Okay. Thanks everyone. Thank you. Bye.


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