Thank you very much to our panel for some very interesting ideas and a wide range of ideas. I should say, by the way, I should have said at the beginning, I'm sitting in for Ambrose Lachlan of McCann Fitzgerald, who can't be with us today. He was supposed to chair the session, but he's taken ill. I'm not too seriously, I hope, but we wish him well. And I also want to thank McCann Fitzgerald for the support for this conference. We don't have an awful lot of time. We only have until about one o'clock, so I'm proposing to open up now immediately to questions and comments from the floor. And if you'd like to say something or like to ask a question, if you just indicate who you are at the beginning. Thank you. Yes, gentlemen here. Just hold on for a moment for a microphone. Pat McArdle, member of the Institute. This is a question for Susan Dargan. I always, like many, I always took the view that one of the benefits would be some inflows and FDI into what we used to call the Custom House area. But I was surprised recently at a meeting of economists to be told this was the last thing we needed. So my question for you is, has the IFSC infrastructure the capacity to cope with additional people coming in, whether that's in terms of office accommodation, whether it's in terms of staff with suitable qualifications, or indeed housing for the people who might move here? Yeah, and I would say that if there is a Brexit, we need to have the environment to be able to cope with that potential inflow. And Ireland is being viewed as an alternate. We're never going to be able to take the million of people who currently operate within financial services into Ireland. We have the infrastructure there, I would say, but we would need to significantly ramp up. So for instance, FSI has introduced an apprenticeship program more recently with NCI. We're talking about a thousand people going through that over a number of years. You would have to ramp up that type of activity significantly. You would have to have an environment which would be conducive to people relocating to Ireland as well. So that covers tax, education, regulatory environment and the capacity within the regulator to take on the increased activity. But having said that, Ireland is credibly being looked at as an alternate. Thank you, Susan. Gentleman over here. Thank you, Chair. My name is Bob Hannah. I'm with the Department of Energy. At least that's what it's called today. It'll be different tomorrow. That's a question for Brendan. Brendan, you correctly mentioned the single electricity market as something that would be affected by Brexit. And you're quite right, because 2.5 billion market will be seriously impacted. And our intelligence is that the powers that be in Northern Ireland would vote to change the market structure to align with the market structure in Britain should UK leave. Now, it's a different market. It's a bilateral contract market. We have operated at a very efficient pool market since 2007, so we are very concerned. My question to you is, how does this play out in terms of the impact on the transition to the integrated European single electricity market should the UK vote to leave? I reminded earlier there's a great phrase that's sometimes used in QI, if you know that programme, when it pertains to certain questions and the answer is nobody knows. So I think a lot of the questions today, I mean, that's the answer, nobody knows. I think if you look at it from a European point of view, it makes huge sense right across Europe to move to regional markets and then to a full European market. So that's the general trend and if you look at what's happening in the UK at the moment, they have gone from effectively an island market like our own with very little interconnection to a market that is now taking on a number of interconnectors. So security of supply I think is something that's fundamental to all markets because no modern society today can work without electricity and won't be able to in the future. So the devastation that is caused or that could be caused by any break into the future in relation to that is unparalleled by anything else other than war in my opinion. There's been a huge move right across Europe since Mr Putin has started flexing his muscles over the last 10 years to push that up the agenda in relation to a target for each European state and then at a regional level and then overall to become a less dependent and more integrated. So I don't know whether it makes sense to follow that the north of Ireland would head back into the UK. If I look at the political parties in the north, I mean the comment was made that the Unionists are in favour of Brexit. My reading of that would be the DUP are the only party that's in favour of Brexit. They represent 30% of the voting public, 70% are represented by all the other parties. And even speaking to the DUP unofficially, I think that's as much a political decision rather than they think it's going to happen. So I think they feel safe in voting against on the basis that they don't think it will happen in Northern Ireland. I think there is a deep view in the north that certainly on the farming side that they know where their bread is buttered and that they will follow that in terms of execution. And probably similar to down here at the moment and similar to the Department of Energy. The same is happening in the north at the moment in so far as the amount of departments are being lessened and being pulled together. They're still going through the process of who gets what in terms of dividing out the particular departments. And because of their political make-up in the north, I'm not sure that any one party can push a particular agenda, particularly if it's on a 70-30 basis to change things. So go back to my first statement, I don't know, but if I was to back a horse, I'd back the horse of the same saying the same. Thank you, gentlemen here. John Bradley, member of the Institute. My question is to John. The Irish enterprise sector is divided. One foreign is driven by a given set of global forces and the other is domestic and driven more by internal forces in these islands. Now you've painted a pretty dire scenario for the latter sector, which of course is the employment intensive sector. What, if anything, could be done after a Brexit to protect that sector? And if indeed it could not be protected, would it call into question Ireland's continued membership of the European Union? Thanks, John. So above all else, business is pragmatic. It's not ideological or political or anything else, and already some businesses are doing what you'd expect some businesses to do, is to begin to say, well, what if there was an impediment of any nature in the free-flowing trade that they have today? Bear in mind, the largest number of businesses on the island of Ireland today don't export at all, and that's often a statistic that's mentioned in regard to the hard-to-understand nature of what's going on in Britain today. 92% of British SMEs don't export at all. What we say is, but they know somebody who does. So nobody's immunized from the importance of the trade corridor between the two islands. For those who are thinking ahead, they'll say, how exposed am I? So if we take the farming argument and agribusiness argument and food processing argument, that has an extraordinarily high exposure because of the arguments that we set out earlier on in terms of potential tariffs. Against the proxy we know from in the nobody knows box, what does the World Trade Organization say might be the impediments and work back from that horror story? And there's no easy solution to that one. And as Howard has talked about, the idea that it's not just a price matter, it's that you're taking off the shelf that you spent 25 years trying to get on. So that's a huge concern in that sector. At the other end of the spectrum, if you're making widgets in Waterford, and you're selling them into Wellington or Winchester or somewhere else in the UK, that trade has been going on pretty well for a long time.  And our good friends in Enterprise Ireland and UK Trade and Investment will roll out their extensive services to say, let's talk about the merits of you having a base inside the UK so that you're not in some way locked out, where you're not depending on a native resource like food production. And indeed, I might say the same applies in reverse to some of the points that have been made about opportunities and solutions for UK-based SME businesses in this case to talk about establishing here. And again, Enterprise Ireland and UKTI will help that case too. Do I think in the second part of... So that's a pragmatism answer, but tempered heavily by not taking any bit lightly the extreme exposure of certain sectors, and food would be one of those. I might also say tourism is another pretty exposed one. I mean, the Dublin-London air corridor is the second busiest in the world today, not just because of business visitors, second only to Hong Kong-type pay, by the way, and booming, including with our friends from Ryanair and others. Part of that is down to the success of the tourism economy. Part of that is down to the success of the exchange rate position over the last while. There are huge exposures in that, and that's a mom-and-pop industry the length and breadth of the country, you get all of that. Taking the second part of your question, is there a serious risk here that somebody is going to turn off or dial down our relative allegiance to the European Union? Might take a straw poll in the room. I personally and professionally doubt that very much. I think everybody on this island actually, but definitely in the Republic of Ireland, has a very high alertness to the benefits that we've got as a country, as citizens and as businesses, to the fact that European Union membership has delivered a hell of a lot for us. And I don't rule out a period of no more Mr. Nice Guy from the 24th of June onwards on a number of planes of this argument, but do I think that there's any material risk to our commitment to the European project? I don't. Thank you. The next question will have to be the last one because then we have to go to the next session. Yes, this gentleman here. Brian Sweeney, ex-Chairman of Siemens and Science Foundation Ireland. If I put the whole lot together, we've had a fantastic morning. And first of all, we scared ourselves into paralysis at the consequences of Brexit for Ireland and for the UK. Brendan showed us that to get out of the EU was enough to frighten anybody to stay into it, stay in there forever. But ultimately, this is going to be decided by the man in the street, the people who vote. And I feel I would have to conclude that there's a kind of a sense of inevitability that things are going to go against the people who want to stay in. And I feel there isn't enough oomph in driving the marketing process to convince the men in the street because the upper echelons, to kind of phrase, are convinced maybe to a greater extent. But this is going to be decided on votes. And do you harness the chambers of commerce, all the different bodies, apart from the employers individually, to really get after the voters, the people who will put their votes in the boxes to decide this issue? Because it's not funny. It's a fundamental, huge decision for the economies of the countries concerned and indeed for the political involvement. And that would be my prayer and wish that for God's sake, something has got to be done more than a kind of a lip service with a semi, a penumbra of defeatism, I would put it. Thank you. Thank you very much indeed. I think we'd all agree with that. I'll take one final question. Yes. Chairman Hulog, a member of the Institute. And perhaps this last question is unfairly to you, Chairman. You are a key member of implementing the Good Friday Agreement and the Belfast Agreement. And tangential to Brendan's question, where many things derive from the Good Friday Agreement, do you see political and economic implications directly related to the Good Friday Agreement coming from Brexit? I think a Brexit would be a disaster for Northern Ireland. Any reconstruction of the border, anything which would prevent or lessen the interconnection between people North and South would not be good for the people of the North and would not be good for the people of the South, in my view. I tend to agree with Blair Horan, as he said earlier on, that if there is a Brexit one way or another, there will be some reimposition of customs. And we all know what that takes, form-filling, business slows down, you're trying to get things to Britain, trying to get things to Northern Ireland. Anything like that which would bring a barrier, a land barrier between North and South, in my mind would be a disaster. And I really do feel fundamentally that the future of Northern Ireland exists in this very close cooperation between London and Dublin under the European umbrella. Should Britain leave that umbrella, I'm fearful. Can I ask you to thank our four speakers who have opened our minds up and led to a very simulating discussion. Thank you.


Welcome to Toffy TV, it's the final where I am joined by Everton legend Derek Montfield. I'm going to be asking Derek about his own own argument amongst other things. Before we start, this video is sponsored by One Football. One Football's app makes it easy to keep up to date with all the stats, results and transfer news all in the one place to download One Football's app. Click the link. Derek, another defeat tenth in the last 16 games which doesn't make for a pleasant reading. Reading, hearing, watching at the moment. Correct, very much correct. I mean, this one on Saturday, what I would say was, this might be controversial but I didn't, Everton in my opinion didn't deserve to lose the game. Didn't deserve to win it but I thought it was a crap nil nil written all over it or a mistake. We're going through that spell now where a lot of us can't see where the next positive performance, positive result is coming from. Because we keep going, we keep seeing the same players playing and then he might make one or two changes if he brings the same players back in again. I just can't see, if I'm honest, the right desire and attitude from the players at times. I know, Pete Wastow, you said critical X footballer. I'm not, I'm a football fan, I'm an Everton fan but what I want to see, I want to see a bit more responsibility taken by players on the pitch. I don't see players screaming, shouting at each other and not crying by the chair but saying, come on boys, we're better than this. We had it when I was here, we had the Peter Rees, the Kevin Wright, the Andy Greys and they would give it a shake up. But Howard do the same, Colin do the same but I don't think the players on the field will ever get that way again. I think they're not allowed to do it, it's not in the cut and way of football. I'm just shouting at people anymore but I think someone's got to take it more responsibly. Someone's got to say, look, we're better than this, we've got to say right, let's get this right, let's get and start having a go at each other. I wouldn't mind the last time if someone had a go at someone on the pitch at Heaven when we could see the goal. When you say, are you picking him up for sure? They just walk away going, okay, but it's not just Everton, I think that's getting epidemic in football. The lack of responsibility in the game now is going to hurt the game in the long term. But I want to see an Everton player, whether it be a Michael Key, a Zach, a Kazuma, a John Joe Kenny, whoever it is, take some response and give a bit of a roll of kin out on the pitch. I totally agree, I mean this is something we've been saying. Everyone's pointing to the manager and everyone's pointing to the zone on the arch and because people are looking for excuses obviously because it's frustrating. You can't look past the players because at the end of the day they're the lads with the sheet on. So we can all moan as fans or look at things afterwards, you can look at it as an ex-player, look at it as supporters and go, he hasn't picked him up, he hasn't picked him up, but you've got to remember that these lads go out to play the game. You went out as a player, it doesn't matter what Howard Kendall said to you, you can give you the greatest tactics in the world, but at three o'clock it's on you, not on Howard, Howard's on, he might be reacting to stuff on the, you know, right, we need to bring him off, he's having a mirror or whatever, or he might better get closer or whatever, but you have to play the game. Players now to me seem as though they just want to go, the manager's told us to do this, so this is what we do. Yeah, I've had that conversation many a time, I've been told to this, so he told me, I've done my job, you know, but he don't just have to do your job, sometimes you've got to go above and beyond your job and I just think that's a lack of responsibility. You just say, well, you're going to mark in past, do your job, but my man can see the scores, it's my fault. Yeah, but could you have shouted say, dad, he's on your left shoulder, or told me, or helped me, or guided me, but by some information on the pitch, well, it's a shared responsibility, but I think the lack of responsibility, as you said, is we have to go, no matter what Howard said to us, and the final take was, come on boys, let's do it. It's my job, my first header, my first tack and my first pass, I didn't want to make a mistake. Yeah, I made many a mistake, we all made mistakes, no one's perfect, but you want to have the best game you can by preparing right. Just, you mentioned something before about changes, I mean, we played, well, first of all, we played City last Wednesday and I thought it was a committed performance by Evan, I thought he stuck at it, I mean, we've seen City, the Wallace Chelsea 6-0 yesterday, Evan stuck at it, I thought, without really looking like we were on a score to go. Totally agree. But we limited them to, I mean, they had 15 shots, four on target, but 10 of those shots were from 25, 30 yards out going nowhere, so the creative very little, which I thought was a positive thing, because some people were like, well, why are you happy with that? Well, I'm happy with that because it wasn't 6-0. It was, for me, the most committed performance I'd seen in quite a while. Nice, yeah. It was one of those where he made some changes, he left some of the big muddy signings out and we're all gone, but you saw a determination to prove to people that, yes, we are a bit more committed, we can play some good football, we are going to work hard and it worked really well. You know, we were never going to score a goal, we haven't got anything in that final third and that's the frustration, the final third is so weak and evident at the moment, but we showed a lot more commitment. If I'm honest, City were a bit easy on us at times, normally they have good shots in the box but they're taking extra shots and extra shots, but we did limit them and we considered two goals in stoppage time in both hours. Two goals that really could have been avoided, but we showed a lot more commitment and I was quite impressed with it, apart from him bringing the two strikers on, but taking the two providers and the wingers off, which makes no sense in putting two strikers on that and then we go away to what were on Saturday and he makes more changes again. But that, I mean, I looked at it, I've done a, we do like a start on the 11th show today before what we think it might be and I've made one change and that was Walcott out for the Tiala because I thought he'll bring the Tiala some back in because of the occasion and all and I thought well he might be fired up, he hasn't played the full 90 of the 90, and Walcott has still got hopes for Theo. I think Theo, when you watch him, he moves round the pitch so easily, but it's that final little bit he lacks, the final tubs, the final fans, because we haven't got a striker. I put him down in the middle, I'd have a go at him. He's got pace and to be honest, I don't know if he wins four more headers than the other strikers we've got. Anything a little flicks on Theo might work on him, but I think I watch him round the pitch and he just glides. So easy round the pitch, but then it's that final decision, that final pass, that final touch, that final decision to do, he's not got that really in the last 12 months really. But I think as a footballer he's got some again there. You can see it, but if he's got some in there he should have developed now after being 15 years in the top like that enough. It's last season of front for Arsenal 23 goals, so that's why at the moment I listen I want a gentle into where I really do, because I think he tries his best and all that, but I'm just not sure it's going to happen for him. That frustrated me at the weekend because we were going to a team that I think has won twice around the season, so they've been better the way, not great. They were a point above us. You know, they got good players and they got the in-ear front, so you like to battle and all that. I'd ought to be honest, I sent the backs, stood up to it, because normally going into it I was thinking, then he's already said they're going to kick us out of us, which they did to be fair. It wasn't over the top. I'm not sure we knew we were in the game, but the changes for me. Towson isn't quick enough to play counter-attack on football. We've just seen what Calvert-Lewin did against City. He was running them in behind. He was occupying their two centre backs like you said before. Jank just doesn't do that. Then he brought Gilfee Sigarton in for Bernard. Bernard had been excellent for 70-odd minutes against City. He's clever with the ball and can open teams up. Gilfee's just, especially not on the left-hand side of midfield, so I was just looking and thinking, why have you changed a team that's gone out and give you the performance? Just say same again, Matt, or make the one change. He didn't have to change anything, but it was me. I had to swap Theo out, so he could have just said to those 11 lads from City. You know what? You've just played the best team in the land. You've just played the best team in the division, and you've given them a go, okay, we could have been better in the final. But these aren't as good as City, so we'll get chances today. That's our bad mentality. Against the bigger teams, can you raise your game? It's only Watford. It's the same as Matt. It's three points. Whether he changes one, two, three, or four, those players should be able to do it. I'm not being disrespectful to Watford, but we should be going down there and picking a point or three points. Every time we go down there. I know he keeps changing, but do you really honestly say that the formation he keeps playing, the four, two, three, one, is the right formation? I don't think it's the right formation for what we've got in the club. I don't think that formation suits us. We're going to go four, one, four, one, or we'll go four, four, two for a change. We're going to change it, because I'm not being disrespectful, but whenever you watch the opposition players now, they know how we play. Now I watch the game of the week, I was now, and the two centre backs pulled to get off the keepers and in came Gomez. And all they did was push their two four backs on to where our two fell back. And we still try and play it in there.  No, push on up, close it down and let's go it again. Let's go and try a different one. Let's try a different one. We don't always need to have a football out of the back. It doesn't always work that way. We haven't got the players who are comfortable like the Man City players on the ball to get it and pass it. Even Liverpool play it better. They've got players who want the ball. Do all our players actually want the ball? You see it on the school, but City, just if it's a little three-yard basket, we won't do that. Are we trying to make defenders into footballers? And we've losing the heart of defending? I want to come on to defending because I thought... Going back to what for that, what we should do. We should be going down with the same mentality as we had against Man City. I thought there was a determination against City. There was a lot more purpose to our play. And we go down there and he makes one or two changes. I really do think Guilffey is, at the moment, on a bit of a struggling run. He's just not getting involved in games enough. Richard Lleson, for me, flicks in and out for too much. He doesn't... He's not like a Dabid server who can dominate and dictate and play. He drifts in and out. I know it's a different situation, but I'm trying to use a similar left-footed play. He drifts in and drifts out. He won't quite get there. Then all of a sudden... I've done that before. He doesn't quite seem to have that right. I'm in there now. I think one or two of the players he brought in are actually really struggling for confidence, as well as form at the moment. But how do you get the confidence back? Do you keep playing them and they make it worse? Or do you give them a break and put someone else in who might pray and then, oh, I want to put it back in now, but he's playing too well. But I don't know, but we should be going to Watford and getting a point. On the back of the net. The good shot from the twist and turn by Towsom and they keep very good save. But it's one or two chances a game. It should be seven or eight, nine, ten chances a game. You'll get more goals that way. You're going to get only creating two chances. You're not going to score goals. You get eight chances, you might get one goal or two goals. So we've got to start creating more chances. That comes from all over the park. That comes from our better quality on corners or better quality on free kicks or more attacking intent from the corners. Where are we going to make the runs? Are we just going to let players fight us or are we going to try and block someone off? Which other teams do to us? Are we going to be a bit more creative? Can we play the first time ball a bit quicker with a bit more purpose in the right area? But you see, again, I watched City yesterday and they knew the ball so quickly and so well and they go, boom. I can't see that there. But we wouldn't see that pass into the space. We'd have an extra touch. But that's confidence, that's belief. That is what they do in training. If you ever watched that programme they did, All or Nothing on Man City, you realise how intense Pep is as well. So is our training as intense as a match situation? Are you fair on a Monday, Tuesday, ready for that game on the Saturday? Because when I watched it, that's what City do. Their training says, look, really, really intense. So are our training sessions right for what we're trying to get there on a Saturday? If I mean that's a belief. If I mean that's a belief. If I mean that's a brilliant point because in that All or Nothing, the other thing you see is that these players who are up there ability-wise because they are are also up there desire-wise. I've seen it last week.  It's just keeps the pace, keeps the taking. But he just mind, if you want to square up and they'll have a little go up, they'll have a tackle and then come on then. Do you want to fight us? Because we'll do that as well first. Right, you're not going to beat us in the scrap, so should we play 40 now and we'll beat you anyway because we're better than you. Gatot City do City will go, alright, we'll mix it then. And you see in that documentary, the desire of the breathing pepper. Stop! And whoa, I think I always thought to you, was that, yes, do this. One of a sudden sort of dip inside the pepper. But is that a mark of silver sigh we haven't seen yet? Does he actually do that? Does he need to do that? He probably does need it at times to do that. He'll say, and he did say this last week, the players have seen me and me losing it a lot of times. Do you think the fans need to say a bit more? Because at the moment, I don't know what the split is to be honest with you, but if you just went by social media and I know there's loads of bleaching on social media, so they might think totally different. On social media, there's a grand swell of just get him out now. He hasn't got a clue blah, blah, blah. We don't know what he's like. He might be the greatest man. He might be a very good manager on the scene in Grandiom. He might be a very good manager anyway. Where are you with Marko Silver? Or are you just at the moment, are you in the camp which is going to prove something to me? Because I don't know about you. If you look what's happened over the last four years, we've gone through more managers than I'm happy with. And the fans are. But do we demand instant success now? Or we have to instant success? It doesn't happen that way. Them across the park, they're three and a half years into this new manager. And we've had four in that time. So are we being a bit too hasty with the selection of the manager? Giving him the opportunity before we sack him. I think at the moment, I've never met any of our last four or five managers. I've never met them, so I can't come and what they like personally. But are we going to give someone a chance? Are we going to give someone a chance to develop his way with his players? This manager is an heritage players from previous three managers. You know, there's Cumin players in, there's Anadise players in. So he's got players that might not go, I'm not sure of him. But he can't get rid of them because we are, unfortunately at the moment, stuck in a bit of a limbo situation with a lot of our players who are earning an awful lot of money who are playing in our team. So we've got players out there who are earning what I would class as an exceptionally good wage compared to what I earned. Exceptionaly, is that all? Exceptionaly good game. But they're not getting picked. So are those players doing something in training and showing them, I'm going to play for you? Are they really? Are they going? Can't be asked. Don't get them paid anyway. I think that's one of the problems of the game now. I'd stick with him. I'd allow him a bit more time to get rid of some of the deadwood because there is a lot of deadwood and awful lot of deadwood. But I want to see a bit more coming from positivity coming from him from more shell brands and then from a majority shareholder who spends more time talking to radio stations and coming out and talking to the fans. I'd love them to come out on Everton TV or whatever it is and say, look, this is our plan for the future. This is what we want. Not talking to an astral radio fella who works on one of the main TV channels and I get wound up with that. I never heard my chairman an Everton talking to the media. I never heard my chairman talking to the papers. So Philip Carter was the chairman of our club and he ran it and he gave Howard a massive big boat of confidence that Christmas 83 period. Five months later a FA Cup winner a year later a lead champions. Do we need to stop having all this coming on national television national radio and talking talk to the fans to the fans, not through the media and I want to see more of that. I get a bit wound up when I hear chairman talking to the media all the time. No, talk to the fans. Go on and actually speak to the fans whether it's via a a one-off ten-minute blob on the Everton website or where it is or the talk to the fans direct. Don't talk via a media outlet. And that's where we've disappeared over the last three or four years since Mr Micheeve is coming to the game. I've never met the man I don't know him but since he's come involved in the club we've become a club that seems a bit like a juggle cron juggle bulls. I'm adopting them all the time. We've gone through Martin Heads, Cuman, Aladise, I don't see twice. We haven't made the right choice now in four decisions and I think hopefully that Marcel Brands is now on the board and we've changed the board around. We've got to get a better structure in our club. Now we've got to get a better forward looking vision for the club and we're not going to be one of these clubs that's known as a sacking club. We seem to be at the moment. I believe we're still paying off Martin Heads, Cuman, Aladise and Silver so we're paying for managers now. Let's get the strategy right. If we're going to give this man a job and it's a man that it looks like Mr Micheeve he wanted because he's chased him and chased him. Now he's got him he's got to give him time. But as fans we find it hard to give the manager's time now because we want success because people think we've got lots of money now. I don't think we're as rich as people think we are but we've got, all of a sudden we've paid £45 million or £40 million for a Charleston but really he's probably anywhere 20 million but because they know we've got a bit of money and it's a bit of a pay off to try to get a manager last year. I think Cygerson 45 they've got money, get more out of it. Pickford is that they've got money, get more money for them. Michael could get more money for them and I think people think we're loaded now and our transfer fees have gone from being what I think 20 million to being 40 million another sum because people think we're loaded. And I think we've gone the wrong way with some of the players we've bought some of the fees we've paid out and then the wages on top of it. So we're stuck with an awful lot of deadwood but we've got to come out with the strategy and say this is what we're going to do for the next years and Marco will be here we have had the confidence in him and make sure we get all right but in six months, he might not be threatened when it's six months time, we might go to somebody else but at the moment I just think we're sacking and making too many wrong decisions in the club.  Surely one other thing and how you back yourself of course because that's how football is and how you back yourself but I think you're then going to look and go well please give manager six if I don't get this right in five or six months I'll be gone because this is what happened apparently with Eddie Hall I said I haven't gone to Eddie Hall when he couldn't get silver and he must have looked and gone I run boom and I'm under no pressure and I've got a decent little side if as long as you keep them up you're like dad I'm out so at some stage it's okay for some fans I've seen some and it's just very small minority saying you just keep sacking until one works you can't do that because you keep paying you're blowing money bit is what we're talking about aren't you then I'm not saying Marco Silva will be the right man I don't know but what I do know is our problems are all down to Marco Silva so that's my opinion you're absolutely right far up my shade he said at the AGM I apologise for using Jim White said it won't happen again I'm sure last week and that's fine if you want to speak to Jim White I personally haven't got a problem but I understand he's trying to speak but you're dead right and this is the other thing about Marco Silva I don't know whether they realise Marco Silva realises and I'm sure he does but it doesn't come across that way he's doing an interview he's not talking to the interviewer the interviewer is not interested the interviewer is doing his job the local fella might be interested he's a blue or whatever but I don't think that that bothered Sky are bothered about what he says Sky are just wanting soundbite but we are as fans so he's talking to us and this is what I don't think the club realises and this is why I've had this thing last night on Twitter when Alan Myers was there that the message was important to Evertonians now I don't think the club are helping them we're in a situation where the results aren't good the fans are a little bit restless and every year that goes by where we don't progress it gets coiled again like a spring it gets tighter because people are ready like you just said we want it now because these have won stuff and they might win the league and we're not progressing if everything were fourth and they were top it'd be a totally different thing people would be going I hope they don't win it but aren't we boss but if they were fourth and we were where we are I still don't think it'd be the same but because we're looking as fans and going they could win it which puts the spotlight back on us because we seem to be going the other way the club aren't helping them the club should do it at 10 minutes at this last week 10 or 15 minutes if damn it Marco Silva give him a bit of personal let us see him laughing and going this is my long-term vision Marcel Brand should be on it just on evidence to the fans Marcel Brand should be saying right this is what I've done this is what we've identified for the summer this is what we're looking for the next two years give us the vision don't keep it in house I've just seen a quote from the weekend from Marcel Brand from a Dutch newspaper when he said something like we chose Marco we know it's not great at the moment but we know the bigger picture that's great but why is a Dutch newspaper telling me so haven't the clubs doing enough to help them? I've said that before I just think we should be using the evidence media side far more to give the fans more of an insight people like yourself and you've got other media outlets and you've got the echo they're trying to get stories all the time then you start getting them all and groans but if they come out and said this is what we're doing we know what we're doing now isn't it good that we've got this plan now for six months in six months time we hope to be here we've got these list of plays we're identified we know we can get rid of four of the deadwood oh yes so we can see some but we don't see it I listened to I actually turned off that other channel the one that's there I just think it's losing it's gone for me it's too mony and groany they're looking for the negatives all the time I want to see some positivity coming out of our club and if it means you sit down forehead Marco and Marcel Brown as a three with someone talking to and you have an open discussion for 45 minutes about the plans wow isn't that good we know what we're expecting every now is it's cloak and dagger stuff oh god this you can't do it what's all this on the pitch it's like we're doing that in the boardroom I want to see positivity you talk about them over the road but they've got a plan you see the plan our plan now is are we getting too tied up with the stadium at the moment is the stadium taking over everything that we've losing our identity on the field will play but hopefully the stadium is going to be there in the next five or six years we need something I love goodness and power to death I love it but unfortunately it will not be fit for purpose for too much longer for the fans the pitch will be great but unfortunately the fans facilities won't be fit for purpose with all the modern facilities getting done but are we now putting too many eggs in that one basket there as the stadium and we've lost a little bit you hear more about the stadium at times than you hear about the team coming from the board you know I'd love to see those three people who's mentioned coming out and saying this is our vision so we know as fans where we're aiming to get we've got an idea where we want to go but let's hear it from them let's not go on national radio or national tv let's go on our own tv channel or our own radio channel and tell the fans and tell us properly what you think is going to go but you know I don't know any three people on them but over the last four years it's I think it's got progressively worse season by season over the last four years and I hate that that the team have supported all my life and I've gone through the thicks I've gone through the things but I've gone through the highs as well but I want to see us get back to where we should be having an ambition to win or compete and I'm talking about the Carabao Cup you don't play a weekend team in Carabao Cup to get to Wembley and maybe get a European spot you go away to the middle war which is the FA Cup and it's all about the look of the draw I thought we've got a good chance down there but again we don't compete we don't do enough so what we've got to now fight for is the league and since we've got the FA Cup having really shown any fight and desire more than a city game but I thought that would be right there come on boys let's have a big push, let's get into seventh let's show what we are and it's just gone steadily steadily steadily down and I just want positivity I want to hear some real positive things coming out of the club and if it means I'm coming out and doing a piece this is where we want to go this is our goal, this is our aim it might take us 18 months but we're going to get there within 18 months 24 months and we want you to be with us we want you behind us we know where we're going then we've got an idea of what the plan is but will it happen? I don't know you're absolutely spot on on to when you were a player obviously there was some rough times especially around the time well when you first got in the side obviously once you were in we were short again but there was obviously around those times it was tough but you got into the team at a time and it was difficult we weren't playing very well I was there being able to 8000 in the league it would be Coventry 83 we'd come back and beat them 3-1 in the league I got into the team about 2 weeks after that you got into the side even after that Coventry game I think we'd had a chest of fear in the face and we got through Scrape past Coventry the last inch in the side we didn't quite get the league form going obviously Andy Gray came in we'd be forest you thought this might be it but then you got in the side and results were all right you were telling me before results weren't great back I got in the side it was a game just after the after the Coventry game it was Arsul then it was Forrest then I think it went to Westam or something in the next round of the cup and we drew 2-2 down at Westam and I scored me first going the Royal Blue Shirt for Westam got a start 5 ages own goal kept it going didn't I and then we went to Old Trafford on the Saturday and I played alongside more Piggins at Westam and we go to Old Trafford on the Saturday and I'm thinking now Bales is there Rats is there and I'm out and I would name the team and I literally went I get me codes you're playing I come back I didn't expect to play we played alongside Higgy and we played Westam and the replay on the Wednesday won 2-0 I think it was and that was last time Mark played so I played alongside Mark for the last 3 games you wonder if Mark had been fit would Kevin have stayed at left back you don't know because Kevin was left back for them 3 games and then me and Rats got together and Bales came in but that was middle 10 of November and then December time we got no better we got booed off the pitch I think it was either Coddenfield or Sunderland on Boxing Day Sunderland 0-0 it was awful then we got on a coach you were playing and I was bloody watching it it was awful we just couldn't get going there was a lack of confidence in the sign a lack of belief we struggled went down to Wolves the following got on the coach after the game played Wolves the following day and got stuff 3-0 I remember Wayne Clarke coming in about 18 months two years later said you were the worst team we'd seen all season and we got batter 3-0 come back at home to Coddenfield I think it was late December and again it was 12,000 another awful board in Nill Nildrawer and there was cushions getting chucked out the director's box the director's getting painted Gower's getting painted all the things going sack the board he's got to go candle and carter out to fill it with love no he's staying well just before we go to the next little bit which is the good bit as players then it might be different for you because you just got in the side but on the training ground what was it like when you look on a Harvard and thinking you were a manager or were you just worried about your own form and staying in the team I played less than 12 or 15 games in the first team so I was very very very confident that I was going to play and I was very confident that I was going to play and I was going to play because I was going to play and I was going to play and I was going to play on the team so I was very very fresh and very eager and a little bit naive to be honest but the players around us really was having more of an influence and they were having more of an influence Colin Harvey made a massive change to us when he came and his first team coach but players were starting to find something game by game it wasn't constantly going like that it was like this all the time you could see things happening you know I got on well with Gary at right back and me and Brats got an understanding and Bales was just did Bales things and all the time even without results you start and develop now you look at you can see Kane and Zuma developing a partnership the longer you play together the more developing Peter Reid will start the Stampies Authority on it and Trevor Stevens developing with Gary Stevens and she was coming into us but things are just starting to move but it's in you're still like Alan Irvine around at the time you know Intu was playing in midfield at the time so you understand there was other players and all of a sudden after the Coventry game when we were dire we were absolutely dire that was probably the worst game I'd been involved in and again just before you go on people might be watching this going well that was then and we know what happened this team aren't showing anything I can assure you that Coventry game that team you couldn't have walked off that pitch and said to anybody without them putting you in the all white coats and getting you off somewhere said this team is going to go unbelievable it's going to win a trophy this season because we loved like individuals there was no coherence the best thing was it was a clean sheet you keep playing sheets but then obviously what happens after that Coventry game piss poor and we go down to Birmingham and he said it was the second and it was early January 1984 that in New Year's Day or the second it was a night game and we go down to Birmingham I think we always stayed in some great bar hotel up there, pre-match meal go to the game Howard names the team and Howard was pretty good at keeping a consistent team he didn't make too many changes a combo of the team that played so we get there we had that all silver kitten that famous old silver kitten so we go on silver socks silver shorts and go warm up we come in and we're all just getting ready to go knock on the door he walks the referee Mr Candle, you can't wear that kit today what do you mean? it's good to clash with the blue light so you can't wear it and someone shouts are we in bloody skins then tonight? and he went no the bearman kit man walked in with bearman and was awake it when I think it's the classic yellow blue yellow we got changed Gary Stevens glory win 2-0 and we don't lose, all of a sudden we don't lose at 20 games but just after that on the Tuesday on Monday we go to Stoke in the FA Cup on the Saturday and although we are 17th in the table we're not performing very well we've just won away at Birmingham there's still 7000, 8000 there man warm up and you see them all Stoke was the favest that day before the game singing and shouting we come back in and we're all getting our final bits and pads on, tie ups on bit of vasting round the eyes for me bit of vix up his nostrils an hour goes right then boys and he just leaned over oak new and don't says and he looked at me and said you do it for them today there's me do it for them we won 2-0 and we do 1-1 at Stoke and we just kept going and going everyone talks about Inti and Oxford but I always go back to that Birmingham city kit on the 2nd it's either way it was I love the Everton blue-yellow traditional pitch up there with Labian a blue-yellow blue there and I think it's brilliant and then you get one win you get two wins you get three wins you get a draw and you start going and the confidence starts developing and all it takes is one or two results to get that confidence going and then we beat Oxford in the replay and then I think it was Dylan in the semi-final we win the first game 2-0 and Richo breaks his wrist and he handboards on the goal line and he said he didn't touch it referee he was a big pit of the board right by his arm and then we go down to Villa Park for the second leg and we win that one and Andy King made a mistake and they scored from it and we lose the game 1-0 that was off those defeats since 2nd of January and that was some time in March or April and all of a sudden we're at Wembley and I remember going into the tunnel after the game going up and Villa used to be stairs like that vertically where wooden stairs up to the changing rooms and you could hear the fans outside and we're off changing you've got to come out you're not going to go, please get back dressed so you all throw a kit back on and came back out and they all go out but we're going to Wembley within four months of being in the first team and I'm going this doesn't happen to this little scouts I'll have them tube out but then we go to Wembley and I always say to people the hardest to win is your first trophy you look at Tottenham at the moment they're so close and they can't win it the first one the first one's so so difficult and we get to Wembley and we compete and we lose the replay but we had a massive opportunity to go back two months later after the milk and we lost the milk at the final we then go to the semi-final the hybrid win the semi-final I'm going to Wembley again so it's March and then again in May and we won the May one and that was it we're better at the way we can do it now if we cut winners and we go and get stuff four one bikes Tottenham first game of the season and then two one at West Brom you're all going here we go bottom of the table six goals and then we win the league with five games to spare and we win the European Cup it's one of them if I could say there and put me free and go on that now that's how you do it it was just a massive bit of confidence start with the board believing in Howard trusting Howard not sacking him a good result in a different team's kit and then a bit of confidence in ourselves a bit of belief in ourselves and the belief goes from us into the fans and that makes it build and build but to say from boxing of 30 January 1984 to May 1985 we'd have won three trophies you'd have gone bollocks no chance and that's how football could change it can change so quickly can that change in the current I don't think it's as easy as that nowadays because notice but the top six are the top six for reason they played his sister football each season they reached the major finals so they get more revenue they got the television more so they get more revenue so we are unfortunately in that next mixed and we've got to get out of that next mix and get into it it might take us another three years it might take us four years it might take us a year you don't watch around the corner because if you'd have said back in the mid-80s what we did I'd still to this day have to pitch relatively whatever and did in such a short space of time I'm so proud and honoured to be part of that team because as you know I'm a blue to the core I've come from the street and singing and Duncan MacKenzie's and watching King's score in the top corner against Liverpool and the FA Cup and being at Gooderson Park when United came and did a 6-2 on Boxing Day I've been through all of that and then all of a sudden I'm walking out in a blue shirt pitting an FA cup and then all of a sudden I'm winning a trophy and then I'm winning what I call as the Holy Grail is the league title it was 42 games the FA Cup was a six game sprint compared to the mountain league to think that I've got two league titles and an FA cup I still find it hard to believe but I'm still a fan and I want to see my team and it great being part of the best ever team it is but why can't it be the second or third best team it means that we've gone on to do bigger and better things it's lovely being talked about the best team ever but why should it with 35 years and 33 years since those days I just want to be the second and third best team because that means my team or our team or club has gone on to do things again and to win more trophies and that's all I want to see I want to go to Wembley in my Everton kit with my mates and win the FA cup and they go and dive in the fountain at Falcons Square that's the thing I suppose that's the story to come out just for some people to say or even in those days the football is a bit like now it's a bit nothing but there might be there might not be and there might be romanticising and looking for stuff that isn't there but I just feel it's very early just moving on with regards to the manager it's been loads of talk of zonal mark on being Everton's issue this year now I thought at the weekend I thought we defended everything quite well really I thought it ends up the score off a corner it's not the first balling I thought we'd done better than what we have done in recent weeks but again we can see the goal wasn't a corner in the first place which is the reason why Zuma gets sent off in the end that's why he gives a corner he was the only one that saw ball comes in and we clear it and then it's a little round the corner but he has missed it to Cathcart and it's a ball across the box and we're behind but there's been a lot of stuff about zonal mark we'll let Alyssa Marco silver this is the reason why we don't win games zonal mark and Howard used it didn't he what's been your take Derek on some of the goals we've considered some of the goals we can see it have been of late avoidable is it the system I don't think it's the system whether you do zonal mark on a man for a mark on it if you don't do your job and players aren't doing their job if they aren't taking responsibility of putting their head on the ball or the body on the line to stop conceding goals we have to do that Wolves did it against us Wolves had some great blocks in the box they put the body on the line do we do it do we actually do that you talk about the second goal for Wolves you've got Seamus in the front you've got with Charleston just behind striker marking for me their strikers are marked by our defenders because my job is to defend my goal I know the movement striker is making the box striker marking better but I'm putting a striker against the striker and it's not right for me so if I'm going to have hymenez and I'd have keen or zoom on if I've got anaguero I'd have a zoom or a keen on it my job I know what the strikers are trying to do but if I put an attacker against an attacker in the box my attacking defender doesn't understand what he's going to do and I just think but you've got to do your jobs if the Wolves go if instead of being like that as the Charleston one if he's just a little bit half on he can see the ball and he can see hymenez and he can see the run coming but Charleston's first move is actually that way he should try and play offside he actually goes that way oh shit, I've got a back in there now and he's lost him but then it's a good quality balling but you've got to put your body on the line the goal against Math City, the first goal I'm sitting in the lower bullens and I went go and make the wrong side of the left of the goal from there I said look at him the porta is there and Gomez has come this side of him I want Gomez that side of him but if once I'm this side he's got a yard on me already in front of me and it only does people said you mentioned Gomez but Zuma's coming backwards where all the porta was a 1, 2, 3 at the board if you look at Gomez he's like that about a yard north behind him it's taking me responsibly to your job to stop the ball going in your net do you want to have a clean sheet bonus do you want to have a victory do you want to be the brave when it gets a cut on the head and comes out with a bandage on your head and go look at me, I've done that for my team or do you go and you dive away you see it so often now players don't jump even this is the goal on Saturday oh we've cleared the first ball but the ball's not dead and we switch off and this is one of the things I picked up from someone but we defended the corner well and then to pass back in you can't blame anyone for that you defended the corner well when it's in there off we've got it out the box if that's defending the corner well it's a ball back in and it doesn't mean it to hit his heel and go behind him but I was looking at it Sigartons next to Andre Grey when that ball goes through when Andre Grey taps the ball in Guilfee Sigartons 3 yards away we've done with the winning goal at Millwell give away a silly free kick you've got to stop doing that another thing too many stupid free kicks we line up on the box, we've got eight on the line so that's fine maybe slightly too high you could say we're too high no serve and dissay we could be too high but good line there, the ball goes over the front four so the back four go like that and the front four stay on the edge of the box so these play here are marking these they've gone oh yes I'm free and they've ran into the space the four can't deal with the cross but it drops down to the four who were marked by the ones end of the box and you pan out and on there they're going oh no it's really that's my fault that's my man it's responsibility I'm marking you if you run past me I've got to stay with you I don't go oh we can do it now it's your job and we're not doing our jobs right whether it's zone like I played at Villawe under Grain Taylor you have three on the six yard box and three two yards off them and my line was that space up to that man in front of me and that was my three yard square box and if I scream for it you go out my way and you go round and cover me if Paul McGowan in front of me is screaming for it I get ready and tasty mixed in now who screams in the box robles who goes who screams, no one screams they just jump and they're there at the ball if I scream my name you know I'm coming for the ball and you'll get round me I'm getting out of his way he's coming for the ball we had one of the week where a keeper came for a ball but the censor just took it on and headed it away it wasn't one of our games I don't think but although the keeper's called the centre back was ready for it and he just powered it away and the censor keeper goes cheers mate well done I've taken control of the situation I was going out of the ball, he screamed but I was going to edit, I've done it myself but I don't see players in our box taking that control of the area the goalkeeper, the 18 yard box was never south doors domain because he could use his hands in there I couldn't so it never would come and if it never would take me and the ball and the striker and everybody would oh yeah he didn't care did he are we now playing a higher line because is Jordan Pickford not tall enough to command his area might be a bit controversial but compared to the the never south doors even to go back to the recently Joe Robles, Nigel Morton all Tim Howard taller keepers they can come and command a little bit more is Jordan a little bit too short to come and command his box so does that put pressure on our defenders if we go higher it's a bit more space if you come and come and collect it I don't know so what we do is get that right Goomers Zuma, Keen Seamus get your head on this ball get it cleared and then if I scream I get round and I cover you you don't see that movement people just jump and they don't jump for the ball now they jump just to try and head it and I mean when I say head it they just jump and it's just a little jump they don't see I play with Paul McRaw pound for pound the best player played with he's getting the ball one two three and he jumped and he powered it away I don't see that as often our defenders too good to say that we're getting hurt now I've got a smash nose, I've got cuts everywhere on my eyes I've got elbows, boots on my face and all sorts but my job as the number five I hook up by crook by eye or by bollock I stopped it and I said but I'm not just having to go at every this is getting through a lot of clubs now I don't think players are fair to put the bodies in the line to score the goals now we talk about how those and the arms being in an unnatural position what's this when they go to stop across I don't see what that does you need your arms out for balance and to push off a control but they put their hand behind the basket but I just want to see a Michael Keane, a Kate Zumer whoever it is he had me there which we saw at Millwall when he jumped two yards behind the header for the first goal he's six foot seven he was the one that added everything is that not playing enough not playing enough and lack of confidence are we confident enough with all the lad's confidence with people behind them are they confident behind them that they're in front sometimes you lose confidence in the person behind you you lose confidence in the people in front of you so it becomes a vicious circle because of the way we you know people just don't like Zonal Marking Man City did it Man City had Zonal Marking they had the three lads on the six yard box they had the two little silvers they did it every ball out it's taking charge of your box if you're on the front foot and you're ready for it you scream other people get out of the way even the centre forwards get out of the way because they think he's got to come through me and you go and it's away but then why do we bring everybody back so when we head it away they get the ball leave little Bernard up there take two and then if we do head it out we've got someone who can get it down and hold the ball up so we can get our shape and push up again we've got more room in our box we've got more room to defend the more players in the box the more chance you've got to climb with the people and people getting in your way that's what happened to my thoughts you're a centre half that's wonderful I would always put at least one player up but if you've got two little players like for example I'd say you two go always have the ball kick-kick it's coming from that side put one over that because now you've had the ball back where it's come from so one there and one down the middle and two possibly three possibly four players out the box no man it's a good man for man on the halfway line and then you've got a bit more space in the box so you can attack an area better you can go for it but it's a modern thing it can bring everybody back for corners and free kicks I just can't see why we do it all the time but saying that I just what I said before it's all about taking control of the situation do you want to be a defender who's going to put the head on a ball or going to put yourself in the way of a shot because we're just in the mix in the mix and we're just in the mix I want to zoom us six foot summing keen six foot summing then both playing Rees be well together at the back now they've got to start taking control they've got to start dominating that line can you have someone who's job it is or is this unrealistic to just go and attack the ball so you're our best defender best header of the ball is it unrealistic for me as a manager to say to you Derek you deal with the ball or you don't know the trajectory of the ball you don't you know what their free kick plan is but he seems van Dijkert Liverpool seems to do that he seems to want to always attract it to the first ball one of them I agree with that the best so we've got two it should be Keirnau's zoomer doing most of the heading but if the opposition work it right they can I've seen it before where I've got to go and mark the big centre forward so if he walks ten yards over there will I really go with him ten yards and come right out of the box so I've got that space what do I say right just block him off I'm going to stay here but you can work it well where and that big centre just walk Peter Crouch just walk in the centre of the house just walk him away because he'll follow you and all of a sudden there's a space around so I'll say just go and stand in front of Crouchy I'll keep myself an eye but you don't see it do you see anyone organised it but there's a back line they're just getting a line he's standing right have you got it right why don't we try a name so if they use a girl's name do you all go out together and they could catch them offside is there as much detail going into this car because it doesn't look like it does it we had those at certain clubs of being it where we had certain names we used certain names certain names meant something different and we'd say a name and that was right we're going out and I'd say we all went out on a mass and they've all gone out oh I'm offside now you should see it now to get in certain things but be a bit cleverer but then mum for mum doesn't always work but if you do your job you'll concede far less goals and you'll with far more headers if you take control and take charge of your job the people around you do as equal equal the same as you do so if we're going to do it in training throw 12 against you and after 5 defenders throw 12 I'll keep getting there or if the doctors stitched it up bit of that thing they'd be fine but do it in training practice it in training do it in training it's all training just pass pass pass pass pass ten passes and all boys pass pass pass pass ten one nil two nil put it back two one what's the improv of that and possession football I've said this to be at the level of the last three or four weeks I don't think our formation does us any favours really I really don't think the two the four two three one because the three who are sitting behind I don't think that you'll really understand what they should be doing or what they want to do so do we need to hold them in fear players all the time do we need three just behind let's play two up front for the change does he really think the four two three one is working for him but he's setting his ways it seems to me that he's setting his ways I'm playing this way and no other way and have we got the players actually can play that formation and I think we're struggling at the moment are the players good enough do they understand it do they want to play it let us know what you think in the comments section below you're prepared to give the manager a bit more time I mean at the end of the day like you said these farads man and if Marcel Brans and they can see a pathway then basically just get what we need this season get the dead right the way stabilise the club come out and tell us what we're going to do just come out as a group of people and say this is what we're doing for the next 12 months this is our philosophy now onwards and upwards not through the national radio stations and foreign cities talk to the fans as the fans expect and hope to be spoken to and not via other outlets and wear a card if you like it when we play them in a couple of weeks that might be the thing that started off big thanks to Derek for coming in thanks for watching, see you soon on SOFI TV