Good morning, good afternoon and good evening and welcome to the March 2024 hyper ledger financial markets mortgage subgroup meeting. Before we get started, I would like to express our appreciation to the financial markets, special interest group and the hyper ledger foundation for the ongoing support and making this possible. As I said, I'm already sharing my screen. If you guys can't see it or can't hear it, please let me know and we will try and correct it. As always, please note that this meeting is being recorded and is under the umbrella of the hyper ledger foundation. So we ask that everyone abide by the antitrust policy and code of conduct. The antitrust policy states that we avoid discussions of company specific pricing products and project don't make negative remarks about other companies or products and the code of conduct means that we treat each other with respect, never discriminate and communicate constructively. We fully support hyper ledger's policy of openness, equity, and inclusion. Okay, everyone is welcome in our meetings and this is intended to be an open forum for sharing ideas and having constructed discussion. We'd like to express our appreciation to all the hyper ledger, premium members and general members, some of which are shown on this slide. If you're new, welcome and feel free to introduce yourself in the comments, but if you're lurking and I know I like to work in quite a few of these meetings, that's welcome as well. Here's our agenda for today. We've covered the introduction and next we'll go over some hyper ledger community information. James will then give us an update on the status of blockchain in the mortgage industry. Then Kyle Lee, the CEO from NFTEA dot AI will discuss digital identity and then we'll close with any questions, but feel free to ask questions during the course of this presentation as well. We always cover the slide in each meeting. This is to reinforce that we're all on the same blockchain journey, but we may be at different points along that journey. This is meant to demonstrate the feasibility of blockchain technology through mortgage industry use cases. We want to define potential implementation paths for the mortgage industry and other industries as well. And what does it take for a mortgage company to implement blockchain and how difficult is it? Okay, the next several slides. I always mentioned for those that are new to our group and would like more information, but I will burn through them pretty quickly. Okay, this slide provides link to different resources, the Linux foundation hyper ledger foundation, the wiki for our mortgage subgroup second from the bottom. I highly encourage you to take a look at that. These are great resources for people that are new to the group. They contain meeting notes and recordings for all of our previous sessions and curated articles about blockchain in the mortgage industry and several hundred curated articles. So I think it's a really great resources for you and avail yourself of that. Okay, if you want to access these resources, you will need a Linux ID or an LF ID. This slide walks you through that and there's a video to help you. I also encourage you to get a hyper ledger fabric certification. I think this is very worthwhile. And then lastly, the blockchain training that hyper ledger offers. This is how I got more in depth in the blockchain. It's free. I very valuable. Highly encourage you to take it. And with that, I will turn it over to James Hendrick, who's going to go to the status of blockchain in the mortgage industry. James, take it away. Excellent. Thank you, Marvin. Appreciate the opening today. Welcome, everybody, to the March presentation. You know, today we're talking about identity theft. We're talking about deep fakes. We're talking about a lot that has to do with, you know, a user controlling their information. So as I was doing research for articles, I did find a couple articles relevant to this topic as well as a few others that I'd like to share with you. So Marvin, let's go ahead and jump on to the next slide. So this first article coming out of Quora really starts with the advantages of blockchain and preventing identity theft. So it talks about their traditional things we always hear about decentralized ledger transparency and immutability. But it also talks about a couple other topics. So cryptography and security and how blockchain uses advanced cryptographic techniques to secure data. Each of the transaction details are encrypted talks about self sovereign identity, how blockchain enables the concept of self sovereign identity, allowing individuals to have control over their digital identities. This lets them control how much information is shared and exactly with whom and can dramatically reduce identity theft. And then it also talks about the advantages of zero knowledge proofs and how it allows for verifications of transactions without revealing any underlying personal data. The second part of the article talks about the challenges and limitations and, you know, we hear frequently about scalability are obviously regulatory and legal concerns are high on the radar. But he also talks about privacy concerns. So for some people, the permanent transparent nature of the blockchain ledger, it raises concerns about data privacy and potential for misuse. The technical complexity and adoption barriers that are out there because of the complexity of blockchain technology and AI, the learning curves pose barriers to widespread adoption. And security risks. Well, smart with smart contracts do have vulnerabilities. So for example, they can be exploited by hackers and the decentralized nature of blockchain can make it difficult to rectify such issues once they occur. The second article that we've got is from Nasdaq. It's actually an article and video. It's hosted by Rob Nelson with Craig Sellers, who's the co founder of stablecoin giant tether. And he's also the CEO of self ID self ID is focused on solutions around how identity and data are owned and shared via the blockchain. They discuss a future where individuals own and control their digital identities, focusing on how blockchain technology can assist in authenticating identities amid the rise of AI and deep fakes. Nelson outlines a value proposition in this field, the opportunity for individuals to possess their data monetize it and dictate its usage. Seller adds that he envisions a future where digital signatures validate the origin of content, thus ensuring authenticity. Ultimately, this will lead to a shift in how we perceive and manage our digital selves offering a blueprint for a more controlled digital existence. Marvin moving on to the next slide. You know, these next two articles are touching on some other topics. So we've had a big focus on tokenization over the last year within the financial industry. That's exactly what this blockchain for real estate. It's coming article is about it talks about project chain link, which is built on the ethereum blockchain and it places tamper proof data onto smart contracts. Now it's working on linking real world assets, including real estate. Ultimately, they're looking to achieve an efficient and transparent method for real estate transactions. Swift, which is the international banking systems antiquated transfer system is also moving to the chain link network. Collaborators include bony melon, city and Lloyd's chain link uses zero knowledge proofs to verify real property details. Smart contracts will only exclude transactions will only execute excuse me transactions between verified parties. This ensures people aren't taken in by fraudsters and it's been shown buyers are interested in an NFT market benefiting from reduced closing times. Key title information can also be included in an NFT and chain link includes self updating features. This means an NFT will always hold valid details about the age condition and upgrades of a property, the rental values, the leans and other claims potentially affecting value and the overall sales history. This allows buyers to have knowledge of the property without relying solely on the seller disclosures. Over time, it builds the detailed story of a home's changes throughout the years. And then the last one we have, this is another one I'm kind of excited about, you know, we are an industry that is very paper heavy. On this next article talks about the future of notes and will blockchain rewrite the mortgage narrative. It's an article on LinkedIn from Maurice Cardwell. He discusses a future of mortgage notes written in lines of code on a blockchain. He imagines a secure digital record on the mortgage of the mortgage note accessible to authorized parties, but tamper proof and transparent. All transactions and updates are permanently logged visible to all parties and eliminate the risk of manipulation. He presents the traditional benefits to consider enhanced security, transparency, streamlined processing, improved efficiency. As well, he discusses some of the hurdles including regulatory issues, integration with existing systems, as well as user adoptions. The article concludes, although it's unclear the role blockchain will play in the mortgage note market, its ability to improve security, transparency and efficiency is indisputable. I found this article interesting because in researching for articles this month, I actually found another article very similar topic talking about digital deeds. So I do foresee that we're going to, as we move forward over the next 5, 10 years, there are numerous parties that are working on digitizing all of this paper intensive environment that we've lived in for so many decades. Marvin, moving on to the next slide. Hey, James, quick question on that last article. Can you clarify when you talk mortgage notes? You're talking about securities, not because some of the people that have process mortgages sometimes put notes in the application. And as the mortgage proceeds through the, the, the origination process. So you are talking about securities, not notes within the application. That is absolutely correct. We're actually talking about the physical note security itself. Okay. So for those of you that don't know me, yes, I have processed 1 or 2 loans in my time. That's why I asked. Thanks, Marvin. This last side, this is actually our wiki site. I believe Alma already dropped into a chat the link. So do make a, you know, an effort to click on the link, make it a favorite. As Marvin talked about the LF ID up in the upper right hand corner. There's information exactly on how to set that up by setting yourself up an LF ID. You're actually going to get a couple of things. You're going to get notifications every time we update this. You'll get notifications whenever we add new articles and content as well as notifications for each of the monthly meetings on the left hand side navigation. You'll see the links to our other pages. As I've mentioned, the articles that we talked about today, they're easily accessible on the right hand side of the wiki, but also our previous articles over the last couple of years. You'll find that over on one of the menu options on the left hand side. So if you are looking for additional information, do take a look over there. We've got 100 or more articles out there and then behind the scenes, we've got a good close to 300 or so articles that we have collected over the last several years. So if you're looking for content, information, things to build your justifications or your case scenarios, feel free to reach out. We're happy to assist. Other than that Marvin, I'll pass it over to you for our main presentation. Hey, thank you, James. Next, I would like to introduce Kyle Lee, the CEO of NFTE.ai. Kyle has over 20 years of experience in IT and MBA from UC Berkeley's high school of business and a BA from Mercer University. He has held senior program and product manager positions at some of Silicon Valley's top tier IT companies, including Samsung, Cisco and VMware. Kyle is also a mentor at Metagrow Ventures, where he leverages his blockchain fintech and cybersecurity expertise. So Kyle, take it away. Great. That's Marvin for the introduction. I'm going to share my screen. Marvin, can you give me the permission? Yeah, you should be able to share. Okay, now I could share. Yes. Okay, can you see my screen? Yes. Great. Can you just hand that a bit please? It doesn't take the pulse rate. Okay. What about now? Yeah. Thank you. Great. Okay. It's my pleasure to talk today. In this presentation, I will introduce digital ID with AI and blockchain and my company's crypto wallet, which can be used as a mortgage payment solution. Nipty is Silicon Valley based Web 3 and blockchain technology development company founded in 2022. Okay. This is our agenda today. First, I want to briefly introduce about Nipty AI team and product and jump into the digital ID in the current process problem and proposed solution with blockchain and AI and introduce Nipty's crypto wallet in detail. Our competitive advantage overview and user cases and Q&A session will follow. Please feel free to ask any question. In the meantime, even during my presentation, if you have any questions, please feel free to ask me and we can discuss. Okay. This is my team. My name is Kyle Lee and I'm taking CEO and president role in here. As Marvin introduced, I have over 20 plus years experience in Silicon Valley tech giant started from Adobe, VMware, Samsung and Cisco. Then I started my own business. I started my career as software engineer and changes to R&D leadership team doing corporate business development, strategy development as well. Over to Venice is my CTO and co-founder. We work together at Adobe early 2000 since then we keep in touch each other and we started our own startup business together. He is also like had broad experience in tech giant in Silicon Valley. He started his career as Microsoft, Intel, VMware and other Adobe as well. My real asset is my director of R&D. He's one of the well-known Solana wireless tech and he's the expert in DeFi application development and blockchain in general. Lee Quinn is my product manager. She studied Stanford University engineering and she has a bunch of experience in product management, roadmap development and product marketing in general. My advisors, Nea Bora is my chief legal advisor. We studied Berkeley MBA together. His day job is lawyer. He is working for US Congress as contract lawyer. He is taking care of legal HR compliance and regulation for us. My core is my chief technology advisor. We met at UC Berkeley blockchain developer community. Currently he's working as associate professor at University of Minnesota computer science department. He's one of the most famous blockchain smart contract expert. His specialty is security in distribution system and blockchain smart contract. So his PhD thesis is he's proposing about next generation smart contract language which could replace the current most common smart contract language solidity. Alan Young is my chief strategy advisor. He is kind of the seasoned entrepreneur. He established about seven startup and four startup went to the IPO. He is also XY combinator and Berkeley Skydeck advisor. This is our product portfolio. We released three products so far. The first product was the volunteer voluntary carbon credit e-commerce platform. We actually tokenized actual voluntary carbon credit. So in our platform, the users can buy, sell and trade voluntary carbon credit globally. The second product we released is blockchain NFT. This is played to on fishing game. We tokenized in-game item and we built NFT marketplace for trading among the users. The third product is crypto wallet. Crypto wallet market is kind of saturated at this point. So our this is our kind of competitive advantage and differentiation is voice controlled debt and security UIX improvement. Also we support buy, sell trade of crypto and fiat crypto conversion and international money transfer as well. I want to introduce my wallet in detail later part of this presentation. Okay, mortgage ID verification problems. I'll talk about current challenges in mortgage ID verification. Traditional method is manual document verification, verifying income statement, tax returns by human eyes that is slow and have potential for human error. Also rely on third party services for identity verification is expensive and delays could happen. Also on fraudsters can exploit this method by using policy document or stolen identities. There is a rise of synthetic identity fraud where entirely fictitious identities are created for fraudulent purposes. Please take a look at the data in here. Core logic estimated 0.61% of all mortgage applications which represent roughly one in 164 applications contained indication of fraud. Federal Trade Commission received over 5.39 million reports in 2023 with 45% being fraud and 19% being identity theft. Current mortgage ID verification method are literally with vulnerabilities and inefficiencies. The impact is financial losses and reputational damage. Okay, transforming digital ID with AI and blockchain. Secure and efficient identity verification is crucial in mortgage industry. This presentation explores how AI and blockchain technology revolutionizing digital ID. AI can automatically extract data like income proof and tax returns, saving time and reducing errors. AI algorithms can analyze document for authenticity, identifying potential frauds or manipulations. AI provides seamless identity verification. Secure facial recognition technology and visual processing can verify a customer's identity instantly. Simply scan customer space with your camera and compare it to customer provide government ID. Blockchain is also the secure part. Blockchain stores data securely on a shared network making it temporal proof. This technology significantly reduces the risk of altering identity information and keep integrity of the user data. AI empowers individuals. As James mentioned about SSI, self-solving identity means customers can control their own data. With SSI, customers hold their verified credentials and share them securely with institutions like bank, eliminating the need for centralized storage. In conclusion, AI and blockchain offer a powerful combination for building a secure and user-friendly digital identity ecosystem. This paves the way for a future of faster, more reliable and trustworthy online interactions. Digital ID benefit. Digital ID, hauled by AI and blockchain, makes a faster, more secure loan application process. Let's explore the key benefit for both institutions and borrowers. Enhanced security. AI checks document and facial recognition ensures applications are genuine, significantly reducing fraudulent activity. Blockchain technology creates a secure, temporal record of user identity, minimizing the risk of data breaches. Streamlining process is also important in here. AI automatically document verification, free of resources, and speed of loan processing, reduce manual work dramatically. Loan origination system integrated with AI and blockchain allow a smooth and efficient application journey. Improved customer experience. AI and streamlined process lead to quicker loan decisions, avoiding lengthy wait times and faster and more accurate approval is possible. Securely verifying a customer identity through mobile apps or online calls, eliminate the need for physical visits that are convenient for customers. Reduced cost. Faster processing translates to cost savings for institutions. Implementing a secure and efficient digital ID system leads to long-term cost reduction. In conclusion, digital ID, hauled by AI and blockchain, unlocks a future of secure, efficient, and customer-centric loan processes. This benefit both institutions and borrowers, paving the way for more streamlined financial experience. By the way, any questions so far? Okay, this is kind of the quick summary. Think about how AI and blockchain can be used for whole mortgage processing. Even James talked about the real estate tokenization. Even stop there, even before starting the real estate tokenization. A lot of like end-to-end mortgage processing can be improved by AI and blockchain. This is kind of the categorized features. AI-powered underwriting, automated document verification, and personalized loan options. Now everyone is talking about the generative AI and customizable AI. Personalized loan options is available with those technologies. And enhanced fraud detection, improved transparency, and streamlined communication. AI and blockchain can help all those areas. And the most important thing is the last column challenge. User privacy protection and responsible AI algorithm is key to be used in mortgage. There is an emerging trend to regulate AI usage. AI algorithm must be transparent, accountable, and required human oversight before deployment. Okay, this slide suggests about basic steps, how you guys can start or adopt AI and blockchain for your mortgage approval. The future of mortgage approval lies in leveraging AI and blockchain technology. Let's explore a practical roadmap for successful adoption. Gradual integration is the key. Start with existing tools. Integrate pre-existing AI solutions like pre-qualification tools and checkbox to streamline initial stage. Seek expert partners. Collaborate with established AI firms for advanced data analysis and tailor AI models specifically for your lending data. The next step is strategic pilot. Focus approach is needed in here. You can begin with pilot project targeting specific area like document verification using blockchain. Also collaboration is key. Consider joint pilot project with other lenders to share cost and gain collective expertise. Building internal capacity is needed. Train your step on the fundamental of AI and blockchain technology. Knowledge is power. Hire data scientists or partners with consulting firms to develop a strategic roadmap for successful implementation. Security and compliance is always your priority. Implement robust data security protocols to safeguard sensitive user information. You should clearly communicate data privacy practice with your client and ensure compliance with all relevant regulations. Transparency is the key. I think you guys are familiar with the user data protection and privacy prevention globally in GDPR, CCPA and all others that definitely apply to this area as well. So when you consider to adopt the AI and blockchain technology for your mortgage, please consider and design comply with all those global user privacy protection. By following these steps, institutions can pave the way for secure, efficient and future for more visual process powered by AI and blockchain. This is the last slide about the AI and blockchain for user identity. And now I jump to my product. Speak is. Speak is is patent protected and world first voice controlled crypto wallet. And our mission is to create the world's first voice control wallet prioritizing both security and user experience. Traditional crypto wallet often are prison huddles like conflicts, private key and test praise management. Remembering and safeguarding these credentials can be cumbersome and out of front. Security concerns existing solutions might be vulnerable to breaches or unauthorized access. Our voice controlled wallet offers a compelling value proposition. The first, enhanced security, we leverage voice biometric as a unique user ID and password, adding an extra layer of protection. To report this user experience control your crypto asset through simple voice command streamlining in action and eliminating the need to manage complex credential AI and machine integration. We integrate those technology. This are even more boost our security and potentially personalized personalized user experience. Okay, and then a question that I have personally and I think that this is maybe too basic of a question but as my voice changes throughout the day or if I'm ill in how does your solution. Identify that or make sure that that voice is still me, even though maybe I have a head cold or pulmonary issues. Can you speak to that a little bit. Different machine learning algorithm is trained to identify that, for example, we develop our solution at the end of the COVID. So we actually tested one of our engineer got COVID and we tested whether our system can understand what it passed. So just think about the facial recognition and also fingerprint. When you register your fingerprint, it asks about 10 different way like this, this, this, that and they train same voice capture we capture the voice and analyze it and smaller set and based on that we train, even based on health condition or background noise. We train our system to understand whether the user is same or not. Marvin, that was a great question because I often wonder the exact same thing, using the exact same sample if you're sick, you know, and you sound different. I get these really bad chest colds. You know, how does that have an impact so thank you for asking that and Kyle answering that. Kyle, I actually did have a question based on something you said on the last slide. So I personally I'm fascinated by the SSI concept and the fact that individuals can manage and control all their data. I guess the question I have is you mentioned that that biometric voice data is stored on your secure AWS servers. The user of speak ease have access to that as well. For example, if I wanted to delete my speak ease account.  That's really good question. Think about the one of the CCPA and GDPR requirement, give 100% control to users data. If user request, I must delete in AWS and the reason we store everything like by design. So when you design our product there, there are two options to store users voice biometric sample data. The first option. We store in secure location in device or we store in AWS to options available each as pros and cons and the reason we didn't choose using device storage is hacking case. What if someone take your device and hacking your voice biometric data and what if I then try to log in our system that would be more problems. So that's why we took users voice sample biometric data and encrypted and using encrypted data transport and we store in AWS and encrypted and also password protected there. In the meantime, you no longer use our service and if you want to delete your voice biometric data, we definitely delete your data. Excellent. Thank you. No problem. Okay. Next slide is about the slide. Yes, this explain about our UI UX design principle. Our user interface and user experience design prioritize a serious brand of voice and graphical element voice UI is the primary interface voice command take center stage offering an intuitive and natural way to enact with the crypto wallet graphical UI is reliable, a user friendly graphical interface server as a secondary option, ensuring consistent access, even in situations where voice recognition might be unavailable. This combined approach provide flexibility. User can choose their preferred mode of inaction voice or great graphical based on their needs and preferences, even if voice recognition encounter limitations, the graphical UI ensure continue continued functionality intuitive transition. The system allows for effortless switching between voice and graphical UI, promoting a smooth user experience by incorporating both voice and graphical UI in element we aim to increase accessibility and enhance user satisfaction. This design philosophy fosters a redundant, reliable and intuitive user experience, empowering users to manage their crypto asset through the method that best suit them. In summary, using our crypto wallet 100% functionality, either voice UI, graphical UI, or combination that's available in our app. Okay, this slide is talking about like the core technology underneath our application. Speedy's level is the power of cutting edge technology to deliver a robust and user friendly crypto management experience. AI, our system utilize natural language processing to understand the user's intent behind their voice command.  Our intention recognition engine disciples the user's underlying goal and execute the most appropriate action. We leveraged machine learning for enhanced security. We acknowledge the potential threat of unauthorized access through deepfake. To combat this, Speedy's integrate MIT's f-banknet acoustic modeling, powerful convolutional neural network algorithm trained to identify and prevent unauthorized login attempt using deepfake technology. Speedy's integration offers secure and streamlined experience, leveraging the inherent security of blockchain. Speedy's ensures the safe storage of user's cryptocurrency. Smart contract automate agreement and streamline various processes within the wallet, creating a seamless workflow. Speedy's goes beyond a simple voice control wallet. It harnesses the power of AI, machine learning, and weaponry to deliver a secure, streamlined, and convenient platform for managing users' digital access. Summary of the competitive advantage. We provide hands-free mobility, seamless user experience, enhanced security, and comprehensive financial services. Okay, this is the actual demo. I'm going to switch the sharing environment to show you the demo with audio. Give me just a second. Welcome to Speedy's. Speedy's is an app that brings a new level of convenience to managing your crypto asset. Through this short video, we'll show you some features. Let's begin. Feature 1. Voice registration. Our voice authentication system leverages cutting-edge machine learning algorithms to effectively detect and prevent fraudulent voice login attempts. Feature 2. Voice login. Voice login determines whether it's you or not based on your voice. If the app confirms that it's your voice during the login process, you will be granted access. Feature 3. Check balance. If you say, show balances, you can check your balances. Currently, our wallet supports Binance, Bitcoin, Ethereum, Solana, and Clay. Feature 4. Send crypto. You can send crypto by voice. I'll show you how to send 11 Clay to a user called Alex as a command. Send Alex Clay 11 Review Confirm You can download Speedy's by scanning the QR code. If you want to know more about the Speedy's, please visit our website. Thank you for watching this video. Question about the actual demo? We just screen-metcoded, so the actual video is showing how our product is actually working. That was a great demo, Kyle. Can you post a link to that YouTube video in the chat? And when we post the recording of this, we'll share it on our wiki as well. One of the questions that I have is what I really like about your application is if I were to use that, it's one more password that I don't need to remember. It uses my voice authentication. So can you talk about has this application been integrated with any other applications or would you be able to do that? The business case or the scenario that comes to my mind immediately is I have parents that are elderly that struggle with mobile applications, different types of applications and authenticating themselves. You don't know how many times my parents have called me and said, what's my password again? So how would I be able to use something like this or would they be able to use something like this to simplify authentication, not just for their crypto wallet, but other uses as well? Okay, I can tell you about our actual experience. When we designed this authentication system, there was like some kind of argument and controversial inside of our design team and engineering team. So several options is available. So always like we should pick the best option which fit with our situation. So first we implemented this voice user ID and password only then when I talk to investors and other partners, they show some concerning about some kind of some error or inaccurate or background noise when using the user ID and password. So that's why we implemented the traditional user ID and password as like the secondary or supplemental solution as well. Then everything changed dramatically after we integrate with the third party, as I told you about, Trenjek is a strategically important partner. We do KYC, AMR and all actual fiat to crypto, fiat conversion is happening by crypto. Then, like, so our workflow is, Marvin, assume you are using our biggest application and with simple like the voice user ID password you passed. And if you do real kind of meaningful activity by crypto, send crypto, send crypto, actually you connect to the Trenjek and Trenjek is asking another layer of user ID. They are on user ID and password. You must register their system as well. So anyway, it's kind of the already multifactor authentication, right? So that's why we don't speak is user ID password authentication isn't all 100%. There is another system user ID password. So that's why we stopped there just simple voice ID and password for us. And if the situation changed, if we take care of all KYC, AMR and actual transaction by ourselves, I want to implement differently. For example, multifactor authentication that would be must happen in here. So based on situation, it could be flexible. Okay, great. Thank you. I'd like to open it up to everyone else on the call. I know James and I have been asking questions. If their attendees have any questions of Kyle or any additional comments, we do still have a couple minutes on this call. Please feel free. You know, we're waiting for that. Kyle, I do have a question. So what do you foresee is your biggest challenge going forward? Is it adoption by the consumer by companies? Is it, you know, the concerns of AI and what the future can hold? What do you see from your chair, Kyle? I think the biggest challenge in decentralized crypto wallet or even crypto industry in general is trust. Since so many dirty and bad things happened since 2022 fdx scandal and telephone like dog one. Many people kind of assumed about people who is working for crypto is a lot of like the liar's fake and everyone just so trust is the most important problem. Not only crypto wallet, but also crypto industry in general. And big turning point actually happened this January when SEC approved about spot Bitcoin. That changed the people's mindset dramatically. Oh, crypto is approved by SEC and US government, Fidelity and a lot of like the institutional fund now by crypto and Bitcoin. I think is I think the most important turning point of the crypto kind of the industry in general, like people start now slowly adapting and trust crypto industry in general as well. In the meantime, challenge for entering this or launch and expand the business is like the, this is bill B2C model. There are like a lot of competition is one of the issue and also still like the technical barrier is the biggest challenge like crypto and blockchain itself is decentralized. So that's why back to the our original compensation custodial wallet, non custodial wallet, the big benefit of non custodial wallet is centralized exchange like fdx or Coinbase. Hold your private key, and they provide us ID and password so even if you lost your user ID and password, they can retrieve for you.  You have your own private key you lost it done all your cryptocurrency is gone. So those kind of technical gap is still kind of the big barrier, while people entering to the crypto market and cryptocurrency. So there are, there are a lot of alternative solution is available. For example, a cold one, hardware wallet, so you can safely store your passphrase and private key to your hardware device. Then even, even if you lost your private key, the private key is stored in your hardware or save cloud storage. If you have your iCloud or Google workspace. There is option you can save your passphrase there. That kind of is kind of in general web 2 to web 3 transition technical barrier is kind of the big challenge. That was a great question. James. Do we have any other questions for Kyle. I think this species is a really interesting product and I will hopefully people out there will download the demo take a look at it and Kyle, do we have your contact information. Did you want to share your email in case people want to reach out to you directly. Absolutely. Actually, this isn't the last slide. So, okay, great. The last slide has the contact information in here. There's my email so you can contact me anytime. And also, I want to briefly mention about our product status we have three different seed of the product. The first product is end to end crypto wallet solution that designed for centralized and decentralized crypto service provider. And in the meantime, like voltage industry may be interested about the voice authentication and low end system only if you want to enhance the security and streamline your low end experience. And also, if you have any idea or any question, or did consulting about adopting AI blockchain, or we are very interested about the real estate tokenization as well. So, question people to contact me so I'm more than happy to discuss and provide any kind of technical advice. Great, Kyle. Thank you for joining us. We definitely appreciate it. And thank you for sharing your contact information yet. I was going to ask you to share that slide again. If anyone has any questions regarding speakies or NFTE please reach out to Kyle. And again, thank you for joining. I think this is the end of our presentation. If anyone else has any questions for Kyle, James or myself. Kyle, thank you for coming and presenting today. It was some great information. Appreciate it. Thank you. Thanks. Hey, thanks everyone. We timed this pretty well. You get two minutes back to your day. Have a good day, everyone.


the Scottish criminal justice institutions in Scotland because it's never been done before and also the stakes are very very high for people at the sharpest end of the UK Government's ever more hostile environment. Good, I'm Parveen. Just something that I first raised was I feel that there needs to be greater recognition around the benefits of relationship based practice certainly in our work women are building a relationship with the case workers that they're working with they become confident and begin to open up and disclose all sorts of issues and trauma etc but then from there when we're trying to get them support and services there is almost an expectation that you know we'll hand them over in a sense so to speak that and someone else will take on so whether it's social work or whether it's police or whether it's NHS that someone else will come in and begin that support process and but it doesn't work because there isn't the language support they don't know the history of the women and they don't know the complexity of the trauma etc but within the third sector there is so much expertise and specialism and the workers build that trust and build that relationship to the point where they are are then able to engage the women and helpers are begin to access services and support that's that's our kind of relationship based practice I think has to be expanded so that work staff that have already built that relationship can continue to support women through a whole process that's not happening it was incorporated in the Christie report in 2011 but it's never really been pushed in terms of active practice and I think that really makes such a difference in terms of women feeling able to be or anybody who is vulnerable feeling they can actually engage and I think that really needs to be kind of looked at again and looked at how can we roll that kind of practice out obviously it needs resourcing and the third sector being the kind of so minimally resource is a big problem and we know that resourcing is difficult across across the board and the issue that actually was brought to our attention yesterday was the Edinburgh council is cutting funding for third sector organisations and the biggest cut is going to be around education and youth that's really concerning for us because usually what happens in those kinds of situations is the type of service that will be cut will be like the ESOL classes which are English for speakers of other languages these kind of activities make such a big impact for women because if they don't have the language they can't engage they can't begin to even access services the interpretation services that are there are supposed to be sporting them are often are very problematic there's a lot of issues around interpretation services where interpreters are coming in with their own beliefs and their own culture and they're imposing that on we've had situations where an interpreter was basically interpreting to a young lady that you should be ashamed of yourself raising this your look how upset your mother is because you're raising this in a panel session nobody else understood but our worker was bilingual so she had to stop the panel session and say we have to stop this this is what's happening and nobody at the table knew what was actually going on there so that kind of thing happens regularly but if we take away resources like the ESOL classes which seem to be you know we don't need that but actually we do so it's really concerning because if Edinburgh city council is is moving towards this kind of removal of funding then other councils will be doing the same as well we know councils are under a lot of pressure at the moment but I think they really need to think about what impact taking away funding is makes in terms of the impact on diverse minorities and the the intersecting needs of communities that they're taking resources away from and I think that's something just to just to be very aware of that that's very useful actually it's a topic that's come up before Pam Duncan-Glancy thank you convener thank you for that and just probably going to go back a little bit if that's okay I don't think I put my hand up in enough time to ask the question at the right moment there I'm interested in and actually we've just heard a bit from from pervading around relationships and the importance of relationship a relational approach I worried that race relations which kind of takes me back to when we started discussing things around the quality act in 2010 it feels like quite an old statement to make but I'm worried that race relations and what you're saying could be getting worse and I noted Pinar's comments on people being placed in hotels rather than ordinary community situations I've been I've got a couple questions about it I've been worried about what that means particularly in Glasgow but also for the people who are who are now currently on MS ambition I'm worried about where they're going to go when that closes at the end of March and have you noticed any impact on race relations in the city and across Scotland as a result of the more hostile environment but also of the way that we've been putting people into sort of unusual accommodation circumstances as we might call it yeah so because we work with welcoming people and we work with people directly and we have a lot of services that we provide as as Parvin mentioned in terms of easel classes and other areas as well it has a huge impact of making someone feel welcome and it has a huge impact of someone to be part of a community when people are placed in rural areas especially on hotels and as earlier Graham mentioned there's a huge profit being made by the hotels and we need to highlight that and I think we cannot hide from that the hotels that are being used are usually isolated from community and are in areas that's hard to reach and when somebody is given £9.30 a week how do we expect them to travel to colleges how do we expect them to travel to communities how do we expect them to go and see their lawyers so they are actually disconnected from society and placed in a detention-like condition and one of the horrifying thing on on Sunday in Erskine was I had a brief chat with the mayor's officer on the day and the way that he spoke was saying we're going to flourish this area in six seven months so for me that means there's a clear indication that they actually want to keep the people in hotel accommodations longer than weak spaces and they want to keep people in there and create a hostile environment where they are disconnected from society and where they are actually creating programmes of activities in their hotels and there's a huge worry for people's safety as I mentioned and if there's misinformation being highlighted in the news if there are groups mentioning that these people are not welcome who's going to protect the people in the hotel accommodations what if something happens is my question we have seen what happened in parking incident in 2020 a life was lost and it was the first time that a person was killed in Scotland by police Scotland in a knife crime incident and what if something happens who's going to be responsible for these actions and we have been highlighting this since 2020 and unfortunately as one of the things that Pam also mentioned is people are going to be disconnected from society and this is where we're going to see the racist and discriminative immigration system being implemented in Scotland is going to be us and them where we fear the other people who are actually seeking asylum and refuge and I think in Scotland we can do something differently where we condemn I have not seen anything from the Scottish Government after Sandy's incident condemning the actions and condemning that Scotland is a welcome saying that Scotland is a welcome in country and that we condemn any form of racism I have not seen this any form platform and I think condemning and challenging these misinformation is something that we can do in Scotland and preparing the communities I think is so important placing people in rural areas and areas which is already deprived and has ongoing concerns and if you place a group of people obviously the community is going to blame and point the finger there and we have seen this history repeating itself I think preparing the communities if this practice is going to continue is a huge work that needs to be done and it could be done where we create maybe community cafes where we create community conversations and this could be led by the local councillors and the local authorities where the local community is being informed. I just want to come in Pam about Glasgow and Glasgow communities I think one of the issues for me definitely needs to be about funding and going back to that if you look at the Glasgow communities fund if you're looking at the end of the fund the amount of well-established BME organisations that have been cut and those fundings is a real issue you know you're kind of looking at the list with absolute disgust to think those organisations just no longer exist and those are the organisations that are far fighting hard for racial equality and I think just kind of going back to that when you're looking at then on top of that the Covid-19 pandemic you know disproportionately impacting BME women or BME people but then on top of that the cost of living crisis, Bangladeshi, Pakistani households experiencing poverty a lot harder and in these funding cuts we're actually sitting here talking about racial equality and how to better that we're never ever going to get anywhere further you know we can have all the best policies in the world you know within the Scottish Government but then if we're not actually funding and actually helping those works to actually better rational equality and just those kind of examples that I've kind of given are already going to be setting so many BME communities back. Pervin and Graham are both going to come in. I think my room's kind of covered my topic. Thanks, convener. I mean I want to just say a few things like the first was to say that one of the reasons we are from an anti-racist perspective we're so concerned about what the Home Office are doing with this deeply irresponsible practice of essentially moving people with no consent from local authorities or devolved Governments to different parts of the UK including of course here into this institutional type accommodation and the type of very cruel conditions that it is is that it does create a series of really serious consequences. The first is we know as a matter of evidence there's been really significant mental health escalation at scale for people stuck in these environments the 45,000 in growing across the UK just under a thousand in Scotland at the moment. The second is tragically we've seen a tragic acceleration and loss of life within these environments as well you know liberty investigates ourselves and others have done a lot of work on this the ferrit investigative journalist platform because the Home Office don't monitor and certainly don't talk about this but we've seen a disproportionate number of people lose their lives including and I've seen some of the incident reports myself and in a redacted form including people you know dying in despair and also confirmed suicides so that's the second consequence the third is that when you treat people in such a marginalising way and are segregating at times the fact away as has happened with this Home Office practice then people become much more exploitable you know so what you're actually doing through another strand of this deep responsibility of this Home Office practice is it's making communities feel more unsafe because it's making people feel really exploitable as well and remembering these are people that have fled persecution and terrorism in other dreadful environments they are desperately just wanting safety that's what they want more than anything else but the Home Office practice deliberately denies them that and the fourth is the far right and extremists like you know patriotic alternative I've exploited what's happened here and done what they do across the UK and this comes from this Home Office practice but as Pinar said it does definitely need a coherent public national response from Scotland on it including from the Scottish Government that's really important as part of the anti-racist approach that anyone should take and the final thing was just to say that as Pinar said that you know Helena Kennedy, Barnas Helena Kennedy case he you know conducted inquiry on behalf of refugees for justice Pinar would speak better about it than I that was a document that was published last November I've never been that I'm more dignified and more powerful launch event in my life in 20 years working in human rights work and it was because it was led by the people who were actually affected directly by it and you could see the cohesion there as far as I'm aware there's not still not been a response from the relevant parties to that report that is a vital learning document to what Pinar and others are describing around what happens when you have this institutionalising commercialising approach to people who come here seeking safety and placing them into these ex hotel regimes you know we need to use that document apply its recommendations as much as possible in devolved competence to actually practical learning and back to Maggie's first question what can we do well then we read that document respond to that document and implement as much of those recommendations within devolved competence I understand refugees for justice are still seeking the meeting with the First Minister and we really hope that happens because we know the First Minister cares about these issues deeply as well and we think that that be a really constructive way forward so in terms of what we can do that would be the next one is to actually meet refugees for justice with Barnas Helena Kennedy and the First Minister so we can take that work forward together that learning together about what can be done because that poem of his practice is getting rolled out systemically as I described earlier on across the UK and it's going to create all these very harmful impacts and it's also perversely creating opportunities for far right extremists and that will create more unsafe conditions for all visible ethnic minorities within a UK context because if far right extremists feel they've got the oxygen of publicity and they've got the oxygen of the opportunities to exploit then they will exploit those opportunities as we're tragically seeing most recently. I discourage you from commenting on this topic we've gone off with a few others we've come back to it so do you want to come in now? Yeah I was going to come in on mental health if that's okay convener it's just everything I've heard so far paints an extremely grim picture we're already in a mental health crisis and putting that racial lens on top of that is really concerning we know and we've heard from experts that mental health issues are exacerbated by disconnection and that's a word I've heard a few times and that connection can almost be an antidote to some mental health issues you know we're hearing about that disconnect whether it's in language or a disconnect from place and community and I'm just wondering if you could paint a picture of what that really looks like when we put that racial lens on that and if you know what can we do what can we do in that regards and perven let me ask you to the woman we work with all all of them suffer come to us suffering from mental health and the reality for a lot of them behind it is racial inequality and gender-based discrimination they come in with all sorts of horrendous situations of being sexually exploited there's women who've been trafficked there's women who have been born and brought up in this country and are just being abused by partners communities unfortunately the communities we work with very often it's not just then the partner there is extended family and extended communities who will add pressure to them to stay and remain within abusive relationships of which has a huge mental health impact this then rolls into the health sector because then they're trying to access health services health services are then sending them away with very very high doses of antidepressants but the real problems are not being dealt with they can't leave the perpetrator because sometimes they have no recourse to funds or the perpetrator is withholding money we've had situations where a woman was they were receiving 600 pounds for their children in benefits but the partner was telling her he was only getting 100 pounds she was really struggling to make ends meet even feed the children living in real poverty so there are situations where there is a family income there but it's not filtering in down for the women or her children so she was she was basically in dire poverty and our children were starving and she'd come to us for support it was by chance the case worker because she didn't have the language either the case worker she'd brought along bank statements and things at one stage when they were looking at seeing if she could get benefits and she realised that that actually the partner there was an amount on it which was clearly a benefit these are the kind of situations they're coming in with so you know how do you apply for a benefit when the partner is already getting a benefit and she can't access it she can't leave the partner because she doesn't have recourse to public funds she can't get housing she's feeling that moving away is a risk to her life and that's a genuine risk at that point if she leaves there is a genuine risk where she feels she may be muckilled her children may be taken away they may be taken abroad the fear is huge unimaginable and she just can't leave these are kind of the the situations and then she's accessing health services but the health services are not understanding what's going on she's trying to access benefits but she needs to have the language to make either a phone call or to do it digitally and this is another problem that's now coming we're seeing every day everything is becoming digitised and not all women have access to it or they don't have the language or they just don't have the skill or if you put yourself in that situation you're so traumatised you just don't have the capacity and the resilience to sit down at a computer and do something like that is even as a professional trying to fill in a form i'm like oh god this form imagine what she's like she doesn't she doesn't have her own paperwork so she doesn't she can't you know she can't load evidence on so all these kind of things are kind of adding to it and it's another systemic form of inequality and to some extent racism because then as as someone who doesn't have the language and capacity to fill those forms or speak on that phone line you know what does she do she can't have a a worker speak on her behalf because if she can't be present when they call back or there's a call coming in then the benefits agencies will not talk to you unless she's present so they're getting all these kind of things which add to the exclusion and for them as well and then professionals just not understanding the fact that i'm not understanding what's going on and there's no understanding of her background so she may have have come through a horrific asylum process or trafficked or just a cultural culturally where she sits she's not able to just get up and leave or she feels unable to get up and leave all of these things have huge huge impacts on her mental health but you're you're right in terms of the connections if the way we work is we help her make connections help her make connections initially with the services but then also within the communities to build up a community of support for herself and that has a significant impact in terms of helping with her mental well-being but it's a very long process it's a very costly process we have staff who speak at least 14 different languages but we have something like 58 different languages origins women from 58 different origins the resources that is needed to support her both in terms of providing counselling support casework support and language support it's it's huge and i think there's not enough recognition given to the fact that to support a white woman costs a lot less than it does to support a woman from a different ethnic background because of the language issues and the amount of support that needs to be put in language wise which is on top of everything else but also the time that it takes is much longer because the issues are much much more complex for her so you know if there's an immigration issue that can take weeks and months of support and that's not factored into the resourcing and funding i think so that's something certainly that can be looked into or needs to be looked into i think mariam we'd like to come in yeah just going to see when you're kind of dealing with those multiple forms of discrimination and barriers mental health always seems to be like the afterthought so you're too busy in crisis too busy firefighting trying to deal with those kind of issues and i think there definitely does need to be more investment within mental health and bma communities one of the issues that we do come across is this very simply that a lot of bma women don't feel like they get that intersectional approach when it comes to trying to find bma councillors or black and brown councillors it's almost sometimes feels impossible so just very much about if i'm going to be in a counselling session i'm going to have to explain everything about what is honour based abuse so what is racial justice so what is the fact that i've experienced a bit of islamophobia whereas a lot of bma women do feel like if they do have a black and brown councillor it's just easier you know they don't need to explain but there's just a lack of investment within that also very quick supplementary just on that and i hear i acknowledge what you're saying about the lack of we don't train a diverse range of of councillors diverse community of councillors in scotland we just we just don't do that but for those of you who provide direct support i'm interested in having you spoke there about the complex cases needing much more support from the point of view of your staff and volunteers do you feel that or what more needs to be put in place to ensure that we actually minimise vicarious trauma because i can imagine that some of the stories some of the things that your workers have to deal with can be pretty pretty extreme as well absolutely and and we have that a big thing to that we have to deal with a big part of our work we put in additional work support we have external councillors coming to support the staff as well but that again it's about resourcing because those those support mechanisms can be put in to support the staff team but it needs resourcing and again it's another bit of resourcing that falls down because it's like do we support the women directly or do we support the staff and we're constantly having to balance that and it has to be a balancing act a majority of our staff are actually ex-service users so vicarious trauma is a huge huge risk for us. Pina, you wanted to come in. Just add on that for the impact of mental health and wellbeing for the people seeking asylum we're talking about a period of time when people could be in the asylum system for a very long time we have some cases where people have been seeking asylum for more than 10 years so we're talking about the process of waiting for 10 years and for us it's the process that's killing people and it's the waiting time that's killing people gradually and we can see that in the way that people represent themselves and when we meet people initially when they come to our doors we see them the day we meet them and then we see them after a few years and we gradually see how it's impacting their wellbeing and mental health especially because when they're in the asylum process they don't have the right to work so that means they have to go and do a lot of volunteering or go under courses at colleges which is not going to benefit them and maybe repeat courses at colleges and as mentioned parvian mentioned it's the lack of resourcing and where the information is provided for people that we can refer to so one of the things that we find useful is people coming to our services whether that's an ESOL class or art group or advocacy work that's a form of sporting people with their wellbeing and mental health however when it comes to professional work we find that we struggle to refer people to organisations where they will get this help and support they need and one of the things we just started doing and I'm glad that Aiman is here with me is we started a peer sport volunteer role where we are recruiting volunteers who are in the asylum process or went through that process to provide that support as a peer in the form of a peer sport role and where they can advise each other and go to maybe hearings at the courts as a form of supporting people however this is something that we are piloting and it would be amazing for the Scottish Government to look at the pilot and maybe extend this so that it can be implemented in other areas as well so that it's a form of sporting people but for a more professional sport on what you mentioned about mental health as we need more resources for this and I think it should not be falling into the third sectors it should be something that needs to be national. Yeah it was just to follow on from what's been said I mean we run a refugee integration service I've done for about 10 years and I mean it's not perfect but it does a lot of good work and one of the things it's basically doing is saying you've came through as Pinar said this pretty grim and often very slow asylum process and you've no been allowed to work well you've been stuck in that process and if you've been eventually granted refugee status then from that you're now moving into trying to that second bit of often the refugee experience building a new life you've got to leave from the bad stuff and now you're trying to build a new life and I suppose standing back from what that service is trying to do informed particularly biffincar in your question around you know there's this escalation of mental health risk and also problems and the reality of problems in systems that affect not only but in this case people who are affected by asylum system or why the forms of insecure immigration status you know people in those environments is that I've certainly been listening in the last five minutes or so what's coming out to me and kind of sense checking it everyday is that is that basically you know there's a really dangerous intersection that people with insecure immigration status are gender abuse survivors or coming through refugee persecution or at risk of exploitation that's a really dangerous intersection people have placed that and some of the things that contribute to that in our view is the home office structurally racist system around immigration and also within that and as a kind of key agent within that and driver of that and no recourse to public funds regime in the rules so given that going back to I think Maggie's initial question around what can we do then I think we just need to recognise that is the reality that people who are at that dangerous intersection and sadly are continuing and probably more so put into in Scotland one of the things we can do we can do is fund national integration services actually think there's a strong case for some of it to be taken forward with the third sector because of the expertise that's in the third sector and the kind of low accessibility deliberately that the charity sector has that's part of what it's there to do is to provide that but we need to we need to in terms of the can do work we can do within devolved competence really take seriously that dangerous intersection at people suffering bad experiences which always have or often have that insecure immigration status part to it there's something different and more detailed and more focused and specialist basically that people at that intersection need the weird one strand of it refugees but that people are people that are just refugees or asylum seekers or traffic exploitation survivors etc people often go across a lot of these groups but the thing about what can we do in Scotland well we could fund national integration services to take this work forward you know and drawing upon the expertise of the of many of the third sector bodies here and practically I'd hope the committee could recommend something along that once it's considered it further because otherwise you know we're going to be firefighting all the time as the system out there gets worse and that's not good for the public sector the local authorities as well because then what happens you get into these individual cases where people in third sector bodies we do it as well advocate rightly for our clients in relation to for example the difficulty of getting into like public sector local authority commission support because it's quite a high threshold for that but we'd ideally not want to have to get into those situations if we were better resourced in the first place to try and make more effectively support people so there's something important about national integration services for people across vulnerable predicaments. Okay thank you. Parveen. I was just going to add in to the earlier conversation there was a news article about a family who was displaced from a hotel because and they lived there permanently and a refugee family was moved in I think that type of PR is not helpful because it's stuff in the public because it's basically saying local people are being displaced and it's again creating a them and us kind of attitude and I wondered what the thinking behind doing that had been at the time it's clearly about the economy and trying to people income for for certain communities and it just makes me think that in terms of when policies are being developed there really needs to be a race focus on them and it needs to be very very early so I'm thinking that a lot of the use of hotels in remote areas is about let's build economy of those remote areas but there's not race is not being part of the assessment of what happens when we do this in terms of racism so that really needs to be brought to the table at a very early stage rather than at the end when things start going wrong or kind of you know we'll keep finished doing what we're doing but oh let's look at it with a race element race needs to be there as part of the assessment process right at the beginning of any policy whether it's by economy or or anything and so it's any policy within government I think has to have race at the start involved good we're kind of fully past time I was just about to say if anyone's else got any point that they don't think we've covered let's just make sure we hear it now I was going to say the first fair work document I had a concern about that because it's got a deadline of 2025 as you know that's when we're wanting to be a fair work nation leading as a fair work nation I think that's too short a period because you've got less about two years to tune a bit and we're already in 2023 I think there's a risk that it's going to be seen as tokenistic by people on the ground because what real impact is that going to have for people on the ground within the next two to three years there's huge amounts of work to be done if Scotland is going to be leading as a fair work nation by 2025 in terms of practice on the ground so I think there has to be clarity about is this about you know the fair work as a fair work we're a fair work nation in terms of the policies we're starting to run out roll out or is it the actual practice when I was reading it I thought people will take this as practice should change by 2025 and the reality is I don't think that's going to be it we've been here 30 years sale has been here 30 years some of us have been here many many more years we've not seen change things have got worse so I think there has to be thought given into that timeframe and the messaging of that as to what what it hopes to to achieve by 2025 that's helpful thank you is there any other points that we haven't covered that folk are thinking let's make sure we get this in there just not enough time to cover it I do think that about the anti-racist employment strategies and poverty and the cost of living crisis and how anti-racist approaches and discrimination against BME people is disproportionately affecting them and pushing them more into poverty and employment issues etc but again I don't think there's enough time to cover that I was hoping that we will but I would encourage the committee to hopefully explore that a bit further yeah obviously part of what we're doing is trying to kind of hear some of the issues so it's really important that you get it on the record Fulton's looking to come in yeah I think I just like my rem said there I don't know whether we're going to have time to go round the the witnesses with this specific area but as I'd asked at the in the previous panel and we got a good discussion on aim I was going to ask about the bill to incorporate international human rights treaties in particular the convention and the elimination of all forams of racial discrimination but I'm sure as a particular bill moves through parliament all of the organizations here and many others as well as individuals will be involved in that yeah pinar anything you can have yep just to highlight that really appreciate the committee listening to our concerns and I think it's important that we see some form of a statement from the Scottish government condemning such racist incidents and actions and to say that I think in Scotland we could do things differently and I would set an example if we looked at some of the campaigns that's led by the people especially looking at the concessionary travel and to see if we could make this workable and also looking at ways of raising awareness in the communities that the usage of where the hotel is being used and I think that these are the areas that we can definitely evidently do do in Scotland so that we don't see any form of divisive actions and racism in the communities and I think these needs to be highlighted now it's really important and on in Erskine on Sunday what was really sad to see was part of the community in Erskine was and divided in both sides and I'm thinking for a long term for the community in there how is that going to impact them as a community for the long term of the people itself and they're discussing about migration and I think this needs to be considered very seriously of where we are placing people the impact it has on that community the impact it has on the people and what sort of an image we will be creating in Scotland yeah I mean this is not an asylum point I'm going to make but it's I think it's just to know it and it's maybe more than that is that you know that a few miles from here and we've got the the bio inquire issue could bio inquire happening and just to mark how potentially important that could be for Scotland in terms of you know policing and you know what it does to people of colour and black and brown people particularly in raising the issues around things like use of force and disproportionate use of force be it taser or be it other forms of use of force and you know somebody's got some learned experience not lived experience in relation to these issues you know from from London it made me think about you know obviously the McPherson inquiry and and then also some of the other you know the other the issues around the Scarman report and you know and you know the Brixton uprisings you know after a long time and I suppose it's like I just feel as I suppose my point is I just think Scotland needs to to note that context is that that that inquiry is happening and I just think it's a confidence to to say it sometimes because if it's not and I know it's chatting rightly mentioned it earlier too because you know it doesn't need to be said that that is happening and that's a potentially very very big deal in terms of of Scotland's kind of journey in terms of anti-racism. Okay, thanks Cam and I think there's probably the final word for Pervin. I was just going to say about Scotland's law and HR treaties, human rights treaties. We talk about the rights of the child but we talk about things like violence against women so we're taking it away from the individual. The rights of the child is the individual's child but the woman is women. We really need to think about how do we and I think it was mentioned in the previous committee is about is it about individual people or is it about a group and we need to make it about individuals rather than women as a a large group. Okay and again we could have gone on all afternoon so thanks so much that's going to be really helpful as the committee tries to work out how we're going to take this inquiry forward but so thank you all so much that concludes our formal business this morning so we'll now move into private session. Thank you.