That's perfect. Don't you ever feel like when you do these you want to do the booboo from My Drunk Kitchen. I think I do it when I watch them for you because I'm like and so it begins. All right I'm Emily. This is my pal Ryan from A Man with the Plans. You guys need to go subscribe to him. We just filmed a collab video for our planners. We decided to do that because we were drinking during that and that involved handwriting. So we thought it was a good idea to do the planning video first and now we're gonna make something. So I'm gonna put the link below to where I got this recipe. A co-worker actually gave it to me. It's not her recipe but a spaghetti carbonara. So good. I'm so excited. I mean she said do you like bacon and do you like pasta? And I was like yeah I do. Answer should always be yes and yes. Yes and yes. And we're also gonna put some asparagus in it because you know who doesn't want their pita smell weird tomorrow. Help food. Help food. Anyway we're just gonna get right to it. This is not like a DIY of how to make this but we're just gonna have some fun and keep the camera on. In case you were wondering our progress to warm-ups we are about half way through this bottle of bear picking. And it's a big bottle. I got the one later one because I felt like we needed to. There's backup wine in the fridge though. There is. There is always backup wines. I'm gonna be Emily's sous chef today. So she's gonna put me to work. No he is gonna supervise me because I don't know what I'm doing. So this that says to take okay hold on what let's I need to read the directions hold on I can't see. Water. Hydration nation. So it says spaghetti but Emily told me that she's going a different route and we're using angel hair which I am personally a bigger fan of so. I don't like spaghetti they taste like worms. Texture issues. Texture issues. Yeah. So like you know the fun thing with asparagus that's kind of nifty have you seen this trick before? No because I don't eat asparagus usually. Okay but I'm down for it. So I'll watch it and then I'll show you my favorite trick. He's gonna show me tricks. It's not really a trick it's just I watch too much I in a garden. Shout out to you Miss Fairfoot Contessa. Oh I don't know what that is but hey. She's on the food network. Oh she's just like this lovely lady that I want to be friends with. Oh well maybe you can't it's the internet anybody can be friends. I know this is crazy. So the thing with asparagus that I love is like at some point you're like this probably doesn't taste good. This doesn't taste good. Yeah this does.  This is so educational. It's so cool. I when I found out I'm like no way. What? Your vegetables speak to you. I'm gonna. It's dripping. I'm too excited. Could you just. You can do it for all of it. Let me see. You can focus your effort to have your drinking though. We're all thirsty here. We're all thirsty for views. I'm burning so many things. I feel like though this is such a good dish for fall because it's like hearty and warm and obviously there's bacon and pasta so you really can't go wrong. Do you know that I've never had this before? Really? Never ever. That's so exciting. I did not realize that you could put I mean clearly you could put bacon in anything but I didn't really know there was like a bacon pasta dish situation. Of course Italy would come up with that brilliant. We're not eating this portion. Oh wow. There's it. I'm getting away. That's perfect. Okay. Yeah. I don't know what I'm doing. You're like not in the frame. Oh. Hi. So if you missed it she she added some olive oil to these and we'll just do some effort. I love pepper. Yeah. I'm gonna be crazy and I'm gonna toss this right now. He's getting extra. I haven't really eaten much today so I'm super stoked about this. We've been drinking. Yeah so yeah you know my state of mind right now. All right so oh I should probably try the oven. Yeah but I need it. It can pre-heat I guess while it's doing this thing. We need to make sure I had the right burner on last because that's never happened. I did that the other day and I was all impatient like why isn't the water boiling? What's wrong with the stove? And I was like okay user error. What's wrong with me? User error. Well yeah okay so I got this big block of Parmesan which apparently is very fancy. It's like the Mercedes Benz of Parmesan. And I did not know that. I just kind of picked out one that I was like okay this looks like it's supposed to be what's good. So I just found out that you're not supposed to eat this part because Mr. Education over here told me. I had no idea. The more you know. Yes. We are going for this but we only need a half cup. A half cup so that means like a full cup in Minnesota terms probably. I was just gonna say this is great. The way that I see this recipe is it's more like guidelines like from Pirates of the Caribbean you know. Like it's just suggested. And she's got the really cool grater that you like insert the chunk in. It's like the olive garden one. I just got it on Amazon. It's super cool. I'm super impressed by this thing and yeah. And I figured if it didn't work because I was very skeptical. I bought this one on Amazon too. Like the old-timey cameras you know they'd like to take it this way. Oh right. Oh Doyle's back. Hi buddy. Because he stole the cheese. Pro tip I told Emily earlier though. So while you can't eat the rind of the Parmesan if you keep it and I usually throw it in the freezer because like there's no reason to just leave that in your fridge. And you make like a tomato sauce or something and you throw it in there it'll add like really good cheesy flavor without having to add cheese. So I just like cut it.  This is what it looks like. So actually it's smiley. It is. It's like those arm slices. So here the beautiful part of the recipe she picked by the way this I found out that we're doing this today. Yes he did not know. I just asked him if he was allergic to anything. Nothing. Almonds actually but not today. We're not a problem today. So I could give you almonds today. Well no. You're like not today. I mean when I say allergic it's just like it's mildly inconvenient it's not like. This recipe though is so great because like it's bacon and cheese. How do you go wrong? It's gonna be so good no matter what happens. Like it's gonna be amazing. I've never used this before but I've seen the people at Olive Garden use it. Yeah so. I know but I want to like see the inside. Oh it's doing it. It's doing thing. It's doing it.  So pro tip have any of you it's not really. This is like all about pro tips. So it's not even a pro tip it's like really just asking about lived experience. Have you ever been to the Olive Garden or like a restaurant where they're always just like say when and then you like never. You have that awkward chicken match with the waiter or waitress and you're just like keep going. I have not said stop yet and they're like. It's double barbed area. Right and so they're just going to town cranking this thing and finally they're like yeah I guess that's enough like really casual about it because that's me every time I go somewhere with that. I don't like favorite ridiculous snack is. What cheese? You make Parmesan cheese crackers.  That sounds amazing.  Yeah that's exactly what it is. That sounds good. Okay so now it looks like that. Do I just like put more stuff on it? Yeah you could if you want. Maybe like put this on there. I think that's great. Do you want to try it? I kind of do.   If you don't know or you haven't been to the Midwest everything cheese related is wonderful here.  Like I feel very sorry if you feel a little lactose intolerant because so one of the things being an east coaster that's moved here like on my own volition uh discovering like cheese curds at every restaurant has been one of the best slash worst things for me because I order them everywhere and I'm like I'm trying to realize why I've gained a ton of weight. It's cheese curds. It keeps you warm it's self-preservation and because I'm not really it keeps you warm at night because I'm not an ice fisherman like most people here. Yes no I don't. She has literally zero appeal. Sorry to you that like to do that but black label thick cut. Fancy. I don't know it was buy one get one free with a coupon. So that's why I'm on it. Oh I'm like spilling cheese everywhere. That's a Doyle portion of the game. Everyone gets a snack. Isn't that satisfying? Oh it's the best thing. It wasn't very expensive on Amazon. It was like I think less than 10 bucks. I'm ordering one. I don't know. Leave a link down below. I'm sure other people would too. I'm trying to find it. I love that all this can get edited out. Like wow. Oh. Curriculum is over there. Are you like the cleanup crew Doyle? I'm glad you're here. Oh I'm looking at the recipe again too. I'm like what about an avocado? So what planner do you have over here? This is your YouTube one? Oh yeah no no no. Okay so this is why this whole like thing happened. Oh yeah we forgot to prep this. I know I'm sorry. We're drinking a little. So I totally stole Ryan's idea because he's amazing. What happened was he hacker because he was talking about he was kind of like stuck in a little rut and wanted to try out new recipes and I'm like girl I want to do the same damn thing. So this is my new recipe tracker. This is going to start in 2019 so we're not going to put one in here today but I am committed to starting new recipes. Actually I have a thought because mine's live now so let's we'll put it on mine when we're done. Yes. Yeah so I'll grab mine. It's in one of my plans that I have with me. I brought literally every planning supply up here because we're like kind of neighbors. We're close enough. Yeah so like I'm like I'm coming to visit. Cook me food. I camped out overnight and was like what's up. No but I have mine and so I'll put this recipe in mine because this will come out great I'm sure I'm confident of that. Only because he's here. Yeah because I have literally two glasses of wine deep so I'll I can change their big glasses. They're the Dollar Tree glasses of wine because I'm classy. Side note though you would have no idea that that's Dollar Tree because it's not cheap and it like has a heavy weight to it like oh if I drop this it's like you know. So he did his on his channel and I totally stole his idea and I did mine on my channel and I also did like a baking one too because I don't bake and you guys watch my drunk bake with me so I figured I would do one too but I'll put his video down below and mine. Do you know what your glass is telling me? That it's feeling a way to empty. Doyle. This is Doyle's portion. Do you guys like that?  Doobie. Hey. It's a cooking supplies. I haven't had pasta in six weeks. Oh my god. I know it's killing me softly so this is when you're and I was like oh we're doing something Italian. Yeah wait do you see this thing? I love dramatic effect when it comes to you guys. It's a very exciting time. And you must be thirsty. I got you some wine. I report done because you know you got it done. Oh I see that. Wow. So look at this. Woop. Cooking is thirsty work you know. I mean we could clearly have to hydrate. This is really delicious actually.  Did you have this in your last video? There's something similar. I had to bear something at some point. I don't know. Let us know in the comment below. The comment. The one comment. I only get one comment guys. Those are my videos. Like a comment. I do. Because you ask a lot of questions. I don't tend to ask a lot of questions because I don't think of it. Okay. That's stringing really good. That's that's what I'm hoping for. Yeah. That's what it said. Yeah it's perfect. Okay. Woop. Come with me. I don't know. I'm just making this up as we go. Give me some eggs.  I meant like we need a vessel for the eggs is what I was trying to say. Oh right. I was like I don't know what those bowls are. There's a lot of bowls in a lot of places. Do we want another one of these maybe? Yeah that's really good. Okay. So do you want me to crack it? He's in charge of the cheese so clearly. I'm the cheese guard. All the bacon. I'm not gonna make just a couple strips of bacon because who does that? That doesn't seem fair. I'm gonna make all the bacons. It's gonna work itself out. I would be here. You would be there. Oh my goodness.  You know when you're in someone else's kitchen you're kind of like I'm just gonna leap of faith investigate. It worked. It worked.  Okay so because I it's supposed to say two eggs but because we upped the cheese to a full cup because Minnesota. First of all Minnesota for everything. It's pretty easy to do that. It is very easy. I added a third egg and I'm gonna whisk them separately and then combine them so that they're ready to go into the mix. Whisky whiskey. So I whisked up the egg and I'm gonna add the cheese into this and like just let it hang out and be friends. Are you gonna judge it? Maybe. Also parameter on cheese freezes really well. Yes it's what I heard. This is what my co-worker told me. She's like oh you should freeze it. I'm like wait what? It grates really good then too because it's like frozen so it's like grrr. Oh yeah yeah yeah. I don't know why cheese got angry when it was cold but that was the... It's clearly angry at life. Well it's nice how people benefit from my messiness. So do you want to hear something funny? I always want to hear something funny. There was a time when... It's a wine break. Wine break. There we go. Cheers. So I used to have what I I tried to start a food blog like three years ago.  It didn't go very far because I was inconsistent but it was actually really fun and like I would just pull recipes together out of thin air and like I enjoyed it for a while but that was my first foreign internet and I was like this is fun but I'm not very good at it. I have help. Because I know nothing and he knows all the things so he's helping me. The best part about this though is that worst case scenario you have wine so... Yes and we have more wine in case. Oh my gosh we have so much wine. I keep like forgetting. You're like uh oh. Yeah so that bacon's moving and grooving. I'm gonna cut up chop some parsley so we have some garnish. Ooh you got that fancy parsley. It was the cheap parsley. I don't know what you're talking about. So you got... Is that actually parsley? Yeah you got curly parsley. What? Okay tell me. The other type of parsley is flat leaf. It doesn't matter. It's just they're two different varieties. Okay cool. I don't think you're gonna like this buddy. It's really erby. Like I'm just being honest. But he smells the cheese. Yes he does. And the egg too. Oh he loves eggs. Well this is his bull made in heaven. No, no. I don't want to pick that up later.  You know what I mean. I love parsley either way but like hmm and Emily is the bacon master right now. I am with opposite of mastering the bacon. It's doing what you need it to. Yeah it's thinking about it. It's like a freaking tree up in here. Well it's like a tree on the table. I'm like when it comes to cooking I'm super lazy in terms of like if we have a knife that's already out. Like what is all use it. And honestly if you felt like it you could just tear this over the pasta when you're done. Oh very true because it's just like a garnish. Yeah it's just fluff. Like literally it's fluff. And to be honest you're not really gonna cut much of it because it's like docile fluff. Literally but it's a green docile fluff. He's been standing under our feet the entire time we've been doing it. But this is like the worst. Bacon and cheese. Right but this snack is super disappointing if he was gonna try to get something. Yeah he wouldn't like that. Yeah don't come to this channel for advice. Ooh bacon bacon. I feel like it should look better than it does. I think it is the pan hot enough. Oh does it have to be like really hot? It doesn't even have to be super hot but you want it to be crispy so. Okay I'll just turn it on. I don't know. I think it's starting to look good though. Okay. And it's doing the like squeaky thing that it does when it's cooking so. Okay forgot you were delicious. Right so it's like okay maybe not. So here's our asparagus. Ain't nobody at time for dishes. I'm gonna survive.  You're not Kelly Rowland up in there. I am 100% not Kelly Rowland. And also I'm like the opposite of Beyonce although I love her to death. But you're like everyone's a little Beyonce. Do you have a specific brand of paper towel that you enjoy? So I grew up in a bounty household. Okay so did I? Yeah that was my thing. Okay so I'm gonna give you a replacement.  Just and you gotta stretch it. Isn't that satisfying? What is this? It's the Viva Vantage. It's the Selecta size one. Yeah.  It's super durable. Yes. How is it when it's wet? It's good. Get out. Yeah. Oh you might be changing my game. I know and they have a good target. Is it like 30 cents cheaper than bounty answer? I think so because it's Viva but don't get the other Viva ones because those are like but these are the Selecta size ones. The ones that are ridges. This is crazy. It's so satisfying. Life changing moments here. Viva not sponsored. Viva. So do you want to do something really funny? I always want to do something. You know how we talked about Aldi and how like there are certain things that you should and shouldn't buy? Yes. I'm making a mistake of getting Aldi toilet paper ones. Oh no. Oh I've never been so burned by a product in my whole life. Do you like garlic or you like how to take it? This is a teaspoon anyway. Yeah whatever. We'll do two teaspoons of garlic. Whatever you think is good because there's one other flavor going on. True. So it's on low but it might splatter at you. For the best part to stir in the stuff, the egg, the pasta, the yes cheesy thing. All right I'm gonna use a scissors that I can wash later. Oh that's so smart. I'm a smart lady. I would have never have thought to do that. Yeah because you can just wash it. Yeah. I'm gonna try to mix this egg mixture in without sprinkling. Yeah. Well he can always move it off the burner too. Well I think it's on low enough heat that it shouldn't be a human tissue. Yeah, Turn it off. Because you did turn it off for a sec so it dropped the tank. Yep and now it's on just low low. Low low. Shorty got low low low. Shorty got low. Is that your jam? That was my like freshman year of college. No it was my senior high school I believe. Dance team. Heck yes. Oh my gosh it looks really good. How did this happen in my kitchen? Because you did it. No you. No I'm supervising. You're supervising. I'm the sous chef. You're the supervising chef. That's what it is. That's what it is. I don't know about bathing things on alcohol. No that was Kanye. Was it Kanye? It was Jamie Foxx. Was it? It was. Blame it on the alcohol. Right because nobody thought that Jamie Foxx could rap and then he did that. Yeah she gave me money. Let's stop now. Do we really do this? So we just made it. Oh she's holding it. Sorry. That day's on me. You can casual me on a Saturday night. Too snazzy for a long good. All right I'm gonna cut a little bit of cheese. I mean when I say a little bit I mean like a lot of a bit. Joyla are you impressed with our culinary adventure? I'm kind of impressed with the culinary adventure. Because I certainly am. But it didn't end up totally horrible. This is actually what I just pointed out the past. You know sometimes it's okay. It tastes really good. Yay. I'm a messy chef. I want to do something that I think is kind of interesting. Do it. I know. What? I'm like what are we doing? Are you gonna twirl it? Yeah so I see that on the cooking shows and I'm like I want to do it. Do it. Do it. Yeah. So like a good spin.  Yeah I think you got it. I like it. That's perfect. Hold on. She needs more. Yeah there's that twirl. I love it. No it looks good. You don't know it's good. Look at how she plated that. It's like a restaurant. Like fine dining here. So this is spaghetti carbonara with roasted asparagus. Look how fancy we sound. We are fancy, fancy people. I'm real impressed. Like I'm real impressed. Oh look at that one. You want this one? I mean they're both good. I'm so impressed. I made more. Yeah sure throw a little bit on there. Yeah that's perfect.  Yeah pepper me up. I probably don't want any salt but that's good. Oh that's the thing is the cheese is nice and salty. Oh look at that. Look at this. Look what we made. Okay well let's taste test. Hold on let's get the forks. We're testing and tasting. I feel like we're on a food show.  Like that smells really good. It smells like I paid like I don't know like $27 for this. So like herby, delicious, bacon-y. Hold on I need to get all the things in the bites because that's what they do on the shows. Yeah that's really good. Like the crunchy bacon, the salty cheese. Yeah and then you have the asparagus that's like hey I'm a vegetable so it's not all bad for you.   I kind of like that the bacon's a little burnt.  And then the parsley is like hey it's fresh. Like hey I'm here too. Yeah. Oh my god this is amazing. It's so good. How did we do this? I think we just work well together. Heck yeah. And then because he's supervised I provided the accoutrements and he's like hey here's how you do it and like great thanks for coming over. Okay she also did the recipe inspo and the grocery shop so like you know divide and conquer. So this is delicious I feel like anyone getting ready for winter and wants to have like a recipe to hang out and to spoil somebody that you love. Yes. You should go ahead and make this because everyone will be happy. This is so good. All right well we are gonna go thank you guys so much for watching. It's been awesome. I'm gonna make another thing that I will link down below it's the BLT how do you say it? Panzanella. Yeah. I'm gonna make that too but we're gonna do that off camera because I'm just gonna use the same pan because I'm dirty like that and I don't really care. So anyway feel free to check out his channel make sure to thumbs it up subscribe to all of those things and you can thumbs up my channel too whatever you guys want to do. If you made it this far you know you're a fan of hopefully both of ours. So here's the thing if you have a recipe that you want us to try. Oh yeah. I'm gonna be the question asked here because Billy that's my thing. Leave a comment down below a recipe and if you have the link great we'll check it out. Oh my god. We're cost to try because I'll totally come back up here and make something else that you guys recommend. Yes and I will go buy all the groceries. I'll make it we'll alternate it'll be my turn. Yes okay we'll figure it out we'll figure it out but yeah you want to see us again drink some wine and then we'll tell you how it turns out and we can add more things to our recipe trackers. Heck yeah. All right thanks for watching guys I'll see you later. Bye. Oh my god this is so good.  Well folks it's time to kick it old school.


All right, let's start from the beginning here If you ever hear me say anything like this, you know that I'm lying or at minimum. I'm fooling myself I've spent I've only spent the last 20 years in software development. I Had some distractions for the first 10 years of my my career But when I started early on I thought I was pretty good It's now about 20 years later doing it that I realized that I don't know much at all and that I've spent a lot of the past couple decades Fooling myself, and I'm just now learning how to stop that But what I want to talk about actually is how the most exciting thing for me Now these days I work as a consultant. I help a lot of different companies adopt Different ways of thinking and working especially when it comes to different especially when it comes to products and I'm starting to see whole companies That have stopped fooling themselves now when I started in software development in you know in the in the 90s back when 90s was it but back when mosaic was a browser and and there was this new Netscape thing I well when we did software projects we would imagine a big idea we would lay it out We would plan it we would design it and we would build it and we would launch it and it would either be wildly successful or Die big and then we'd find someone to blame and everything would be okay again But I'm starting to see companies that realize that that's a bad trend and they're doing things to break out of that and one of the big cultural adaptations is that they're becoming More comfortable with with failure. They've they've learned how to fail. They've learned how to accept failure Well that quote plays in my head a lot that if you're not failing or not learning and if you haven't watched that Derek Sivers video you should if you've got kids you should make your kids watch it Because it's good for kids But enough about these companies. I want to I want to talk about me for a bit And I've got to reach all the way back to when I first started and I need to talk about my biggest well my biggest instances of fooling myself I Started as a software developer and I think I'm a pretty smart guy and I was Pretty good and well, I started a company. I was given a first job Our company built software for brick and mortar retailers and we take it on this weird special job to build a Site to sell aircraft parts online. I still remember part numbers for aircraft parts The light above your seat is a 315 in case anyone asks now This is bill Bill is still at my company bill is a great guy and I can remember looking bill straight in the eye and saying look bill I've been working with these other developers. I can outcode them. They can't break my code. I can break theirs Bill I don't you you're not going to need to test my code and Bill smiled and nodded and and then bill tested my code and broke it within minutes and I learned that how these tests are people do do things and and You know one of the things I've seen over the the course of time is Over the course of the last couple decades is testers move in and be really part of teams I've seen the discipline of testing are really advanced now that we understand that Testing isn't just checking things that testers become really honest to goodness partners with developers I love this particular picture. Just it was a recent a recent workshop we were doing and the lady Well, the lady at the top of the screen She's a tester the the guy at the front is a developer and they've got this cool symbiotic Relationship where he's sort of talking out loud telling her what she's working on and she's kind of saying what she's testing And she'll say this is this is looking bad And and he hears it out of one ear while he's typing something else And these guys are coding and testing at the the speed of light The they're not waiting for any bug reports to be filed They're working in a very different way and well, I'd fooled myself about what testing is and what testers do and the lesson learned for me is that testing is a pretty critical discipline of It like there's a lot of other disciplines and it takes years to get good at them and if we're gonna do anything significant we need each other and well That's that's one area. I started by fooling myself in with software development and and well the the other area I started with was part of my distractions in my 20s as I had gone to art school and Back then it was called communications art which kind of meant a hybrid of illustration and advertising design and things like that and I stayed there long enough to realize that this is a lot of hard work and I don't want to do this and Software is pretty easy by comparison and So I went into software development and I eventually wandered back in and well If you're a software developer and you know anything at all about user interface that makes you the UI person and compared to other well Compared to other software developers. I was white hot I could make software that just really looked good and and working with my teams Well, they'd I could go from just a rough idea of what something should be to something that looked like a good usable user interface and Everything was great. I was working with teams who were on that long run of building things and things were coming out good And just out of curiosity who here in the room has ever set with a customer or user While they've used your product before wow, this is so different. It didn't used to be this way at all Think back to the the first time you did that how did that go? it doesn't go very well a lot of the time and For me when I shipped I started to realize that well user interface design is a lot more than than looking pretty This is a simple model that I draw on napkins all the time. So that is a napkin and that is a Time I've drawn it and this is me dissecting just these really simple concerns If I look at a piece of software at the bottom I'm going to put this utility layer if I find people that have a problem a user that needs to be able to accomplish something and I can give them a tool that allows them to do that. I'm going to call that the utility layer Now if I've given them something that really helps them And I make it easy to learn and easy to use and an efficient than I can layer usability on top of that and Then if I've given them something they need and they can learn how to use it and I can make it Sexy and consistent with my brand and well, there's more to aesthetics than just looks there's that expression you can't judge a book by its cover and the reason that's an expression is because people judge books by their covers and Software that looks bad on the outside people kind of believe it's bad on the inside So if it looks good on the outside that inspires confidence and we can do better with We can do better with software. We're confident in now if we can just get that raw utility thing, right? We get some reasonably good products. Everybody's familiar with Craigslist and it's it's not sexy and If you dig in too deep, it's not horribly usable, but man, it's it's it's super functional It has stuff we need to do Now if you skip over that utility and this is where well my first speed bumps where I'd first fooled myself Is by looking at stuff that I could do things in and that looked good but I had maybe I had some elements of usability and aesthetics and Can you think of any I had a hard time thinking of? Popular products that had usability and aesthetics because usually they die on the market But the only one I could think of what was that? Does anyone here own a segue? Checking, okay This is a product that's been looking for a use for a long time. I'm not sure I know one's ever come up to me and said, you know, I want a device that allows me to get around at a modest speed not too fast and and doesn't carry anything and looks really dopey, can you can you help me out there and It's a product that's still looking for uses these These guys don't look threatening at all. I died if they make me want to shoplift so And then there's just the aesthetics thing if you make software look good and we all know what that's called That's the lip sticking the pig thing and I was pretty good at that when I started So it took a few times in front of people to realize that Crap, I'm building the wrong stuff. I'm not building things that solve people's problems So the first trap we start to fall into is look What's wrong here is that we need better requirements and if we had better requirements all this stuff would go, right?  I Need to start by telling people it's a lot of you've heard me say this before that you are not here to build software and And you never have been you're here to change the world now That may sound daunting, but in fact every time we ship anything We make a little at least a little ripple and sometimes a really bad one and the Here the model starts like this We look at the world as it is now as it is today and we find people that have problems or people that are confused or Frustrated and when we look at these people well we get ideas Now we might call those ideas products or features or enhancements When we hand those off to people to build we might start to call those specifications and at some point in time We might call them requirements now I'm going to I've got to go off on a slight rant here for a minute I I started in a in a product company, which is a lucky thing to do I had lots of customers my customers did not work for my company I knew that if I went to any one of them and they told me what they wanted of And I gave it to them I would be dissatisfying some other customer and I was responsible for the sexes success of my product And they weren't so I made reasonable choices about what should go into that product Now my company had 30-something people when I started but we grew up to a few hundred people and We started hiring a lot more traditional software people and I remember of this weird tipping point where we had a lot of people and A lady came up to me and said hey look Jeff the the team that you're responsible for we need you to add these things We need to add these things that into this part of the product that you're looking after I said great. Tell me a little bit about who's using the product What kind of problems they have and how this will solve their problems and she said well their requirements And I said okay. I get it. Tell me a little bit about What are the customers are gonna be using it What are they gonna be doing with it and she looked at me like I was stupid and said their requirements and That's when I learned that that word means shut up And at some point in time and software development we sort of forget that we're actually solving problems And we fall into the trap of we're just building stuff now Let me come reel back in from that tangent because well we we It's important to remember that what we call requirements are our bright ideas that solve people's problems Now we move forward through this cycle if you're using an agile process if we're using anything We eventually deliver something and that delivers into the world later And what we hope is true is those people that were unhappy are now Happier and not everybody's happy and there are people you just can't please now Well everything between that idea and that delivery I want to be I want to give some clear language about this That's all output if you're practicing in an agile process. That's the junk we measure with velocity That's the stuff we ship. That's the stuff we track with project plans But it's not what we want what we want is what comes after that Outcome is well what happens when things come out. That's why it's called that and Out those people that are happy aren't happy because they saw the release notes or they saw the box But software doesn't come in boxes anymore But they're happy because whatever they were doing before they can now do it different or better the way we measure outcome is in terms of well people's behavior how they behave differently as a consequence and and maybe how they feel after they behave differently and Then one of the word I'm going to splash in here is impact now The truth is the model doesn't start with us Solving problems for people it actually starts with our company being concerned about revenue and asking us to look into particular people to solve problems for and Ultimately our company wants some sort of return on investment And it takes lots of people doing things differently and feeling happy about it before we get that longer term impact so outcome refers to the well the things that we can see and measure and Adrian was just describing When we deploy something we start Running tests and what we're testing isn't how much money we made well it could be if we've got an e-commerce site But we're usually testing How people behave differently those are the metrics that we gather and those are the immediate outcomes but if we're trying to Do things like improve brand awareness or overtake a competitor the market those things take a little bit longer I don't test those with my metrics the least not hours after I ship Your job in this in software development is not to build more stuff It's to build less stuff your job is to minimize Output and at the same time maximize that stuff Now I keep this model in my head because I pay attention to people who are using this stuff and pay attention to what happens afterward and Hey, how many people in the room are using agile development before? Before now any time If you're using these user story things there's this common template that gets used and the template is the as I want to So that and well this template is about talking about who what and why What who's the person that matters here what? What I did oh I have for them and how do we turn that frown upside down? How do we turn now into later? What I learned early on building software Was that it does not matter what the requirements are if I deliver exactly what people ask for and the outcome is bad We lose The corollary to that is you if you deliver If you don't deliver what they asked for and the outcome is good you win That's the trick here now Given that you could say look then all right if it's not better requirements. We need we certainly need better research We need to better understand what's going on. We need more data Now I've got to reach back and tell a story.  You can tell by the size of the monitor. It's not This picture was taken of well in 2001 when I when After a brief hiatus to work in silicon. Well, excuse me to work here in San Francisco to Get my dot-com millions after that didn't pan out. I went back to the company. I had been at and and This particular guy Andrew I'd hired there. He was fresh out of college He is now a VP of product development of this particular company and he's he's doing well Some of you might know me for that this story mapping technique and I should pull the picture down a little bit That row of cards on the top is actually the first story map. I ever built in 2001 But let me tell a story that I well the conversation I had with Andrew last week was about one of our customers This is them now we build software for large brick-and-mortar retailers and other other types of retailers and This particular customer was really unhappy with us With my prior company now unhappy with Andrew in this situation Because the return process on our software was Clujie and bumpy and and Andrew could look clearly at the data and see that returns were a fraction of the transactions that went through why were they making such a big deal about this they were less than 1% of all transactions and How bad could it be? but This particular company has some unusual return policies This is a company that's extremely liberal with returns They care a lot about how they handle people when they return things and when you walk into their retail store That's the the counter where people do returns now. This is before store hours, and I I Andrew didn't have a picture of what it looked like in during store hours But he was there he took this picture and he was there during store hours and there were lots and lots of people there and What he saw was lots of people jammed up lots of people behind counters trying to help them as quickly and politely as They could and the software that he had written Jamming things up and making life miserable for everybody Now the data showed that it was only a fraction of transactions and the transaction time wasn't all that bad But when Andrew was there he saw that this looked really bad. This does not feel good The returns all end up in bins and they bag them and they go to the back room and and there's a lot of those Now I pulled that picture just quickly because I wanted to point out that guy right there That guy is Eric and that's and I was lucky to start out Eric is the CEO of our company and whenever anything went wrong, we got on airplanes and we flew to where it was and we saw people and we saw it going wrong and The lesson I learned early on is you don't get empathy from data it's empathy that we're looking at and And there's this word that gets a little overused in in a lean in a lean context And I've worked in Japan before they'll often refer to Gemba as this floor where the developers work But for products it ain't there now. I want you to imagine for a minute that you are Jane Goodall Is that working Hey, my talk is supposed to end at exactly what time I'm watching my time to make sure get through all this Good, okay, because I haven't adjusted my time zone. Yeah I'm already really late Yeah, good. Thank you now Jane spends a lot of time out in the field. It takes a long time. It's arduous. She hides in bushes She she watches gorillas and and somebody might look at her and say geez Jane. This is horribly inefficient We've got this idea for you will make your research process much more efficient We'll call this chimpanzee on site And we will bring the chimps directly to you and then if you have questions about the chimp You can just lean over and kind of observe or watch or ask and well, that's not the kind of Thing we're doing we we don't get empathy that way either They might get empathy with us, but that's just not the way it works So don't don't do that do this and well when I look through my hard drive I've got piles of photos of where I've gone out to do this Hey, this picture was taken not all that far from here just off Fremont Street at a big company that does I can't say the company name, but if I said they screwed up Libor you might know who they are But in this particular company we were told gosh you can't you can't talk You can't talk to the portfolio managers. They're busy people Millions of dollars and and yeah, and we can arrange a meeting for you Sometime and I said great no problem. Where do they work? Well, they're on the third floor But you can't go down there and I said okay No problem. Hey We're curious about getting some pictures of their work area Can we take pictures and no no no that's that's not okay We'd have to get permission from legal to do that and I said okay that's that's okay, and then I went over to the elevator pressed the third floor went down and and and this guy says nobody ever comes and talks to us at all and They are they're thrilled to talk and And we learn a lot about context and well these guys are traders also and they work together in teams of four and and because they work closely together in teams to They're not traders excuse me their portfolio managers They need frequent conversation with each other So somebody in their wisdom had said these guys need a chat feature in this software and it's got to be high priority because they really need to talk and They hadn't actually gone down and see that they have arranged their decks so they can stare at each other in the face But so being there showing up helps a lot and The only reason I want you to see this picture is when the one of the mornings I showed up their analytics had crashed and this is a this is a big deal It causes big trouble and they're all looking at that the quanta there Who's trying to fix the models and get it going the important thing for you to pay attention to is how freaking dark It is there because for these guys to do this work. They've got to be up and at the They've got to be there five in the morning and I had to get up it I don't know what time 3 30 or something to get from Alameda over there That was if you want to see where things happen. It takes a little bit of effort Now actually I want to go to this particular guy And I'm gonna mention Edmunds comm a couple times here because this guy works for Edmunds. This is a teak A teak was responsible for analytics and Edmunds was a company that well years ago We'd been asked to help them convert to a design thinking process And one of the first things we did is say look you have to start talking to the people you build your software for And then this was a frightening thing and So a couple of those people are developers and one of them isn't can you guess which one isn't I'm just curious But a teak is talking to someone and they During this day he interviewed several people and he's in charge of analytics I remember at the end of the day he was sort of just struck that Look, I can tell you exactly what people do I've always been confident that I can tell you precisely what they do But it's not until today that I that I realized that I could never tell you why You get what people did from data, but you're missing this one critical component the lesson learned for me again is that well data isn't empathy and So okay great Let's move on from there then if we can't do research if we really need to get out there and get empathy What we need is a better product owner and because they're the ones that screw things up If we don't get the right person in that job It's it's their fault and they need to be able to tell us what to do Now I want to give you this simple model that comes from a guy. I've known for a few years now and a Marty Kagan Marty started as a product manager one of the first product managers in Netscape and he joined eBay I believe he was the third product manager hired at eBay and he when he left eBay He was in charge of 60 product managers. So he kind of grew up in this And he will say that if you are a product person you are responsible for identifying a product that is valuable to the people who are going to Use it and buy it and to our organization It has to be usable by those people They need to be able to accomplish what they need to with it or there's no value and Finally it needs to be feasible to build given the time and tools that we've got that the ideal product lives there and Because this is a lot of things to worry about Usually we might have a product a person a product manager that looks after the value But we need someone who really understands users and works closely with them now and products in software product companies That's usually a user experience person in IT centric companies that might be a business analyst And then finally we've got this person that's usually left out the one that receives the requirements the engineer It's these three people that work closely together Now I forgot to plug in the audio. There's just a little bit of audio. I had here Because I had to hear from Marty Hey, is the audio on? Yes It's in Organizations that I follow behind Marty life is lot is great for me because he's already said look if you if Product manager is going to work. You've got to have tight collaboration between this small balance team you need people that work together that understand how things are built why things are built and who's going to use them and Well, I generally find that engineers are left out and I grab this little snippet from Marty On feasibility the little secret in software teams is that truth is Usually the best innovations actually come from the lead developer And the reason for that is that the lead developer typically knows what's possible better than anyone. I Consistently see really fabulous things. I just left a Just left a workshop with a company Monday and Tuesday, I was in Scottsdale, Arizona The minute we start involving developers with talking directly with users with actually getting a chance to come up with those Requirements actually solving problems. They light up. They come up with a lot better things than well than anybody has before and they And they light everyone else up with them I'm a hater of that product ownership term because I want everybody to own and I want product owners to be better leaders So product owners lead a cross-functional team and they help everyone take ownership then There's this last thing here that basically if fine if we get the right people and they really Work well together and they understand their customer that then we'll get it right right Now there's Marty again, and I was last summer. I had to work with him on something I was sitting in the car next to him and he nonchalantly said this phrase like if you're really good at this stuff You'll be right about a third of the time and I said we say that again. He said well typically Between 50 to 80, you know 50 to 80 percent. I had him repeated back And it got a little more concise than I like but 50 to 80 percent of the things that we put out there fail They don't meet their original expectations. I said you're kidding me because I still was fooling myself about that I thought I could we could get this right and he said no no no if you're good at it you fail most of the time That's the way it is and a lot of our ideas fail So we pull them down and then no well the ones that might succeed a little bit We've got to iterate them a lot before they succeed this is hard stuff and I start to recall those Charts that people show especially agile trainers show these standish group these chaos report things where Depending on the year you look at it anywhere between 65 and 75 percent of features are rarely or never used That sounds bad when you hear it Ruling out some obvious things like you know airbags are rarely or never used in cars So they must be worthless but The truth is a lot of ideas seem like good ideas at the time It is difficult to you know, we might start with an Opportunity and from that opportunity we might come up with a couple different solutions Now, I don't even remember what this old quote. This is old now and everybody knows the the zoons gone away, but the there are some people that really believe that zoom thing would work and That can get a little scary for those people Actually, yeah, I do have to get the next picture. Yeah, that's the one I want Now this is Eugene Eugene's in charge of product management at Edmunds comm and I said look this is my I think Marty's crazy Eugene I'm hearing from Marty and you guys have been Designs thinking stuff a long time. You're getting a lot better at metrics. You're paying attention to how well things work You know now how often these things work Marty's saying that if you're good You'll be right about 30 percent of the time or something like that and Eugene says to me No, we're probably right about two in ten two times out of ten. You can tell he's not a developer He would have simplified that fraction to one in five But one of the things that's happened with Eugene over years You know, they hadn't been talking to customers. They hadn't been experimenting, but over years. He says, you know, we've we've built we've had to really Build measurement muscles up We started by using simple testing tools like test and target But we found to really get the precise metrics that we want. We've had to start rolling our own Stuff to to measure and now we're pretty good at this and that's why we know we suck at this and The lesson for me is that this is hard. We're usually wrong and we have to start planning on failing a lot more often than we used to Now the one other team and I'll talk about a couple teams These are the teams that have the longest term relationships with and I've seen them evolve over years This is a company called snagajob.com. No one hears anyone here ever visited this site before If you were looking for a job at Burger King, this is where you go so This that was a team at their regular stand-up and they've got this nice board and because they're focusing on things the last edge of their board isn't Done the last edge of their board is ready for release and then it sits once it's released It's tagged it sits there and it gathers data and it has to gather data depending on how long it's been there for for hours or days or weeks and they've got metrics they're trying to influence and Well, they explicitly released they explicitly measure and nothing leaves that board and until they've learned something Now I wanted to put this guy on there. This is Thomas and I talked with Thomas in preparation for this I'm trying to gather more recent lessons I find that there are companies that are in this inside this journey and things aren't going so well They don't want to talk about it. So that's been tough but the people that are coming out the other end have really learned some things and This particular project where these guys have been measuring I watched them thrash for close to a year on this thing They were trying to replace an old version of their website with a new version of their website and the revenue per visit The revenue per visitor would just never come up They couldn't replace the the old with the new because they were going to lose money and not just a little a lot of money and At the end Thomas who's in charge of products that yeah, yeah, we we scrapped that But the important thing was that after chewing on this thing for a year. We got a really great architecture out of it and I'm learning more and more that great architecture is sort of important to doing this stuff and Well, one of the big Assumptions that I hear that is that really great architecture is all about scalability and performance and What I'm starting to understand now is that's not it. In fact, that's the stuff. We've been focusing on for a long time Now stag a job has had this weird architectural journey and I think How many of you in the room have been involved with your company's architecture before?  It's almost the exact same number of hands Now a stag a job had they had they originally started their site and the architecture didn't have a name And they needed to fix it or make it better so they named their new architecture eagle And so they built eagle, but it had a long oota loop It took months to build this it's not months excuse me years to build this thing and it was kind of hard to use and and bumpy and and it wasn't getting adopted well and and People got tired of it and they said look we need to launch a new architecture and we're going to call it instead of eagle We're gonna call it Phoenix because it will rise from the ashes of eagle and then Phoenix trunged all along for a year or so and It was starting to run the same course and then they wanted to layer a new architecture on top of that and They decided to call the new architecture Tucson because Tucson is some kind of sideways from Phoenix if you look at it on a map and The idea was that they kept trying to get a good strong scalable architecture but one of the things that happened when they were trying to chew on this problem is they focused on getting things released fast on Making things measurable on making things testable and well their new architecture is called somersault and it's sticking Oddly it's easy to use. It's easy to build things in and along the way They've built scalability underneath it. They built performance underneath it, but it is optimized around speed to get things done now I was recently Bill Scott came from Netflix. Was he big at Netflix? Or is he just a troublemaker? He's big yeah and well, he's at PayPal now, so he's definitely a troublemaker there and I saw him recently sort of complaining that look at traditional engineers start with Reuse and they end up with something. It's just way too complex He had a nice mantra this use before reuse mantra Look, let's make sure that people can use it at all before we focus on that reuse thing and When I go back and talk to Eugene just recently he said look we built our CMS with AB testing in mind We well, I think what I had already said they used to mix in a lot of different things But over time they've realized that we need faster more surgical results and the companies I see they're doing this Well aren't using off-the-shelf tools. They're rolling their own And one of the interesting things Eugene said is you kind of have to go through you kind of have to go through this Having nothing adopting a big tool realizing it doesn't work and throwing it away and building your own if you try and leap frog Frog those things. It doesn't work You kind of have to pay your dues with it. We have such an uncomfortable thing to learn But the lesson learned here for me is that engineer We need to engineer first for experimentation and focus on scalability performance later Now great fine week. We've got an architecture Then fine all we need to do here is to build measure learn now I'm not gonna explain agile to this crowd. I probably I don't need to explain lean startup to this crowd not much and The build measure learn loop is a simple idea. It's it's it's the new UDA it only has three steps, so it's better and It basically means let's get an experiment out there and There's I've seen this weird bias where we can just get quick simple experiments and well a lot of the organizations I work with will build simple paper prototypes or other things like that and and Talking with Bill's cohort and talking with Cody recently He said look you can only sir learn so much with the highest fidelity prototypes here. You eventually need to get real Now I'll see if I can explain what I mean by that here And I love this quote from Bill Buckston who's a noisy guy in the user experience world that that he says a Difference between high fidelity and low fidelity is just stupid. There's only right fidelity and wrong fidelity So a lot of what I focus people on is trying to find right fidelity for the right time And the two axes that I think of is well all the little the looks real and the works real axes Now if I create something, it's a simple paper paper prototype. Why does it look all that real? It looks kind of like software But I can move the parts around and I can use it if it was software and so it kind of works real and What I used to see a lot of and still see too much of sometimes Is lots of really sexy photoshop documents? And they really look great, but they don't work real at all And then one of the things I'm starting to see a lot more of is a lot of faking it a lot of faking it with manual Processes are using spreadsheets to calculate things and I'll explain an Edmunds example here in a second and They really work real, but they don't look at all like software and Ultimately we want this when we finally want to make sure that people will actually use this stuff We need something that looks real and works real But it isn't engineered for release It's it we might a B test that in our environment and we ratchet this up We can start to test value with very simple things and and prove that people value this We can start to let people step through things on paper or simple Aksure prototypes to see if they can use it, but at some point in time We want to start measuring outcomes and remember outcomes are what happens when things come out We have to let people use it in the wild and see if they actually behave the way we expect them to and Well in terms of architecture one of the things that you they've at Edmunds They now have an architecture where front-end developers can Not deploy headless apps. They heads only Basically only front-ends with with mock databases and they behave like real software, but they can do this very quickly on their own so I Want to describe an Edmunds experiment and one of the things I'm seeing more and more in organizations is that to develop To develop a real experiment. We've got to spend time and money and sort of use the whole organization This is Edmunds site today and they launched a feature called price promise and for price promise The idea was simple. I can go in to site. I want a car. I can look for a car And I can find dealers that are offering guaranteed low prices. They've learned that people really hate haggling with dealers and Well to test this particular feature Edmunds had to get the cooperation of a few dealers in the in the Portland area They had to build enough software to go live on the site. They had to put it in their a b switching frameworks only a certain amount of people got it and The whole test took many months to run They shuttled data back and forth to dealers on in spreadsheets. They manually loaded it into databases on their end They had lots of phone calls with dealers but at the end of the day they had to see if people really did use it and Really did go to dealers and really did buy cars Because if it didn't work end-to-end It wasn't really a test Marketing had to support it by giving a branding sales had to support it. This is whole organization experiment experimentation and What's interesting as that Edmunds would have never done this a couple years ago. It was not okay. They were They either spent a lot of time arguing about it and either do it all in spend millions or not do it at all That's the big change that I'm seeing now I Know I'm over time and I want to make a last point here. In fact, this is the last point Well, and I have to make it with three slides. Is it look we keep discovering things we discover Working closer together helps and actually kinds of things help We discover understanding more about users and doing something that's more like a design or design thing thinking process That helps we discover experimentation helps and we are pretty sure that we are going to crack this thing But What we're finding or what I hear from Eugene is that look we've been down this road enough times that we realize that We keep falling into this trap that We keep thinking the process or the methods will automatically produce success But we now know that that's usually not the case We are on our own and what was interesting was Thomas. He's in a completely different way He's a little newer and from his perspective. He says look the process is here to help us learn. It gives us some structure for learning Now, I don't know what's true But the lesson I'm gonna my last takeaways here are I don't know pay attention and Don't assume you're right Now I'm over time Well, hold on. I never have time for questions and Jez is too young to know who the who is Who remembers the who? Good It's time for a break, right? Do I want to take questions? We should let people go. I never have time for questions But I think you should watch Pete Townsend This guy is incredible He is so wiry All right, that's all I got. Thank you very much


Hello and welcome to the Charter of the Week video with me David Madden. Today's date is Wednesday the 8th of August 2018 and the time has just gone and let at 1035 British summer time. This week's Charter of the Week is the S&P 500 and taking a look at the big picture we can see that the S&P 500 has recouped pretty much most of the ground that at last in the major sell-off at the beginning of the Year in January and February. The market has been a classic example of an upward trend in recent months. Take a look at the price action since April. We can see the market has been creating a series of higher highs and higher lows over the last number of months and in fact yesterday the market was down to hit its highest level since late January not too far away from the old-time high. Also take a look at the MACD indicator, the MACD histogram. We can see that the as the market was moving higher in the last couple of sessions the momentum indicator swung from negative ever slightly in the red to a positive tariff you know And it's actually increasing as well. So as the market is pushing higher we're seeing a steady increase in positive momentum So the rate of change is heading in direction of the the bulls and the buyers. So with this upper move You can be more confident that this upper move is going to last just because the rate of momentum is in favor of the bulls and the buyers So if you do push on higher from here We could be looking at retesting the January high and therefore the old-time high of 2877 and then of course if you move beyond that turns to be keeping it keeping I offer numbers like 2880 90 and the big cycle actually report number 2900 obviously this would be if you were to see this this would obviously be Something in the kind of more medium to longer term But in the near term, we could see the all-time high of 2877 being retested Now the market's been in an upper trend the last time months So we've seen markets bounce back after reaction low So if you do see the S&P drift lower We could see new buyers enter the fold and look to the market to continue the wider upper trend that it's been in So if you do drift drift lower from from these levels support make them into play in on this area here 2825 or perhaps even down at the 2800 level as a big psychological number, and it's slightly below that we did see the 2791 area Act of support recently and also our resistance not too long ago This didn't hit this line here at 2791 seems to be very significant seeing as in early June it acts as our resistance and then in July and also in July and number of occasions it acts as a support. So while we hold above the 2791 region I suspect the outlook for the S&P could remain positive Even if you drift drift below it support might come into play at this blue line here the 50 moving average at 2780 as you can see the solidation in around that level In in late June and even if you drift lower further support might come into be found at this yellow line here The one of the moving average which comes to play at 2726 once again notice how in June we see no occasions the market with the one or two day moving average did manage to act as a support level Now if you are trading the S&P 500 it's worth keeping an eye on President Trump's Twitter handle given that the trade standoff between the United States and Washington and Beijing is still ongoing so any uncertainty around on trade Could could could hamper the S&P 500 and it's also worth pointing out that we could see increased volatility on Friday When US inflation figures are released. Well, that's all for me this week. Thank you very much


My name is Christoph Broch from Helmholtz Association. I'm here in my function as the co-chair of the RDA Co-Data Legal Interoperability Interest Group. It's a very complicated name, I'm going to explain it a little bit. The purpose of my presentation today is to introduce to you a document which has also a complicated name. These are the principles and implementation guidelines concerning the legal interoperability of research data. So it sounds very complicated, but I hope at least that some of the things I'm going to present to you are less complicated than what we just learned about data protection right, which truly is very complicated. I'll start out with saying a few words about the research data alliance. I have seen some familiar faces in the audience, but many of you who participate in this meeting today may not participate in the research data alliance or I'll shortly explain a little bit about the research data alliance. It has been launched in 2013. You can read with me if you want, it has about 5,000 members, which means individuals who sign up on the website. So each and everybody can just sign up, it doesn't cost anything. And if you sign up, you can participate in any of the meetings and you can join working groups and these working groups are really the focus of the research data alliance. So people come together, they find the topic relating to research data and they start, there's a process, a very informal process and you can have a working group. And of course, each of the working groups is expected to deliver some kind of outcome and the outcome of the legal or probability working group is the legal interoperability paper. That's kind of a close match. Okay, so a little bit about the legal interoperability group. The name has a combination at the beginning of the research data alliance and co-data. The acronym is explained below, which of course is a sub-organization of the International Council for Science, so that was a very important connection for us because, and now I come to the legal interoperability paper, the paper we have produced addresses scientists, yes, but it mainly addresses policymakers. So why are the International Council of Science, we hope, to reach many research organizations? So now about the paper, principles and guidelines on the legal operability of research data. Making research data available for reuse means you have to find ways to overcome several hurdles. There are technical barriers, there are legal barriers, there are financial barriers and if you look at the legal barriers, data protection is one big thing, liability law and then of course property law. Within the group, we only looked at property law. So what you will learn today will not give you a complete overview of all kinds of possible hurdles concerning the use of research data. It will be focused on property law, but we know that that is the case and that we do need more papers if you will to address all these various different legal areas, okay. So let's start with the principles. The document I will introduce has six principles, we promote six principles. The first of which is that you should give lawful access and you should facilitate lawful access and research and reuse of research data. It sounds very simple as a matter of fact as a policy criteria, it's not simple. Many organizations will not have a rule saying that research data produced at their organization should be made available for access and reuse as a default. So that is a very basic policy decision and it does not mean that you need to make everything available. We heard about the principle before as open as possible as closed as necessary. So openness is always a relative openness, but one of the main decisions to take when building a policy is whether the default is open or whether the default is closed. And the decision in one direction or the other direction also shifts the burden of proof. If you start with a decision that the information should be closed then someone who would like to make this information available would need to legitimize that. If you start with the openness, people who do not want to make the information available have to legitimize why they do not want to make it available or why they only make it partly available or whether they need to attach conditions to that. And I can assure you I'm active in many committees and a lot of people say it's naïve to have openness as the default rule because they think about business cases that involve the control of information and they fear that too much openness will harm these business cases. And that's a very important argument, an argument that is usually not considered enough in meetings like the meeting here, but I think that is something we have to consider and I'm still arguing for the openness as a default, but we have to be aware that there are very good arguments to keep things closed or only open them to a certain extent. Then once you have a decision possibly that you do want to make your information available then the next question is how you facilitate, how you support making the reuse possible to a large extent. One consideration is whether to attach a certain license to the data. We already heard that there is a problem with the concept of ownership in respect to data. So if we believe that data we would like to make available is protected by an intellectual property right then a license would be an appropriate legal instrument to make it available. If we believe that the data we would like to make available is not covered by an intellectual property right then a dedication putting it so to say in the public domain or affirming that it isn't that the information are in the public domain is in the public domain would be an appropriate legal measure, a legal instrument for that. Also if you consider to make data available we think it's important that the availability is granted on an equal basis so that everybody has the same ability to access the data and you don't just open it to certain audiences. So what I just said to you, that is the text I just didn't want to show you all the text or you keep reading all the time. The second principle is actually the most demanding, determining the rights and responsibility for the data. No matter what you would like to do with the research data you have to determine who, which person or which organization has the right to decide what is done with the data. That's a crucial decision. If you look at it from a legal perspective you do need to control, is that my, you do need to control, you do need to know who owns or controls the data. This is the person who can decide and checking on this is probably too complicated for most of the scientists. So it's part of the responsibility of a research organization to have clear rules and to clearly negotiate who can do what with the research data that are produced within a research project taking place at a certain research organization or research data which are produced or possibly bought from another entity in the course of having a research project. One important aspect in this respect is that if you acquire data from another entity during the research project you need to check the contract because if you buy satellite data, satellite data for example within the research project and then there may be restrictions connected if you get a license to use these data so you need to check what the restrictions are in order to then know what you can do if you want to make the research data of your project available. As I mentioned before there are reasons to make data available and there are reasons to not make them available. So we ask in principle number three that you balance these interests. That also sounds easy but can be a quite a complicated process because if you talk to policy makers in research organizations they will be aware of an interest in openness and of an interest in confidentiality but setting up a process to balance that is not easy. There are several ways one could go about that. You can set up a committee for example that looks at this. You can have certain rules concerning the justification of confidentiality. Most importantly I think is you do need to have a transparent process so that you understand why certain data are made available or not made available. Once you have decided that you do want to make data available for reuse by third parties you need to communicate what people may do or may not do with this data. Now it's very important that you communicate and state the rights as transparently and as clearly as possible. You may be able to find a lot of data in the internet but usually you will find very little information telling you what you may or may not do with this data. From a legal point of view that's a very unfortunate situation. If you collect data from different sources and you also would enable the reuse of that new data set you need to know what you are allowed to do with the data to keep on communicating that. So we have a real issue here at hand that as of now data are made available in many cases but often there's no clear policy communicated, no clear license or dedication information communicated. We from the legal interoperability group believe that the best, probably the best way as of now to communicate these legal situations of the data is the use of the CC licenses. Of course the CC licenses have different flavors. So I'm referring to the CC zero license in this respect and the CC by license. The CC zero license would apply if you believe that the data are not copyright protected and the CC by license would apply if you believe that the data are copyright protected and I will not go into details of how to determine whether data are copyright protected or not because that can only be decided on a case by case analysis. Generally speaking the question is whether it's a work in the sense so a creative work in the sense of copyright and I think if we talk about data most of the cases we actually talk about just pieces of information which are not, they can be the result of a lot of creative work but the information itself is not a creation, it's in many cases an observation. I already referred to the CC by group of licenses and that communicates to the principle number five promote the harmonization of rights in research data. Now that is, this principle is clearly addressing the policy makers. I applaud the European Commission for having started the open research data pilot and making it the default now. This is a typical step of trying to harmonize how we deal with research data. The publishing community is another important player and just before this meeting here I looked at some principles of the many publishers adhere to when they publish research data and I went through all the principles and there's nothing about the legal aspects in these principles. So I was a bit shocked by that. So I think the publishers need to think about that too. So of course there are several aspects of the harmonization. Part of the harmonization will be to have a common policy for example concerning embargo periods but also of course what kind of licenses are appropriate so people kind of don't have to have too complicated decision-making processes each and every time they want to make data available. And the very last of the principles provides proper attribution and credit for research data. That's very important and strictly speaking it's not part of the legal interoperability at least not if you're referring to data which are not copyright protected. If you believe that the data you're making available are not copyright protected if you make them available usually people can do with the data what they want and they do not need to cite the source. So from the legal point of view there may be not a strict necessity to cite the source but from the scientific point of view of course it's very important to cite the source. So we strongly argue that people do cite sources and that actually today I think can be a technical hurdle because if you would like to combine information from many different sources it's sometimes quite complicated to find an adequate way to provide the attribution information. For example for this presentation I looked for pictures yesterday I found all these pictures in the internet. In my presentation I have an extra slide that mentions all the sources but there's no elegant way at least for my technical ability to embed the source information in the picture in a way you can see it right now because it's not important during the presentation but if I make the presentation the way later you could easily find that information for me it's a lot of work so I have to put together all of that and imagine I want to combine many sources then it becomes really very complicated so I strongly believe that the ability to properly attribute needs technical support much more than what is available right now. After presenting the six principles I would like to ask you to have a closer look at your document it's quite a big document it's 40 pages so it's actually for the policymakers but I think many of you are in this position to read more closely all the explanations we have about the principles and then possibly make this paper available to the leadership of your organization and ask them to consider whether they would like to support these principles I just got the information about a website which was not ready until a few days ago where you can sign it you can say I support these principles and I will make the link available and give it to the organizer so they can make it available together with the presentation so there will be an option for individuals and for organizations to show their support for the principles we strongly believe that we do need organizations to subscribe either to these principles or other principles if you find others but I think at the moment they are the only ones in order to build a consensus about how we should legally deal with research data now this is the first version of that paper we hope and believe that a conversation will build on this paper people will have comments and there can be future versions that accommodate aspects that may not be covered in the paper yet or we may change certain things because people say this or that it's not dealt with adequately in the paper but I think the paper is a very good start for a conversation to build consensus concerning the legal aspects of making data available and making them available for reuse thank you very much for your attention so we have time for one question then later week you can if you want to do one question now we have time then later we have the panel discussion I would like to ask about why do you advise not to use CC0 for data where there is copyright protection in it is there any risk that we take doing that you said you advise and not to use CC0 but only CC buy for data where there is copyright protection in the data what would be the reason for this why would CC0 be a wrong solution do we do we take any special risks if we do that so the reason is if the you know from from the legal point of view if the data are not copyright protected then you cannot you cannot own them if you cannot own them you cannot license them you can only give information about the status so that would be if they're not protected you could attach zero or the PDDL license that is another option if they are copyright protected then you are right in theory you can you could also use the CC0 but that is of course then very much dependent on the copyright law of the in the various countries so you're not able to waive certain rights depending on where you where you live so for that you know I didn't go into the details and in this respect then the CC buy license is the second best but we agree and maybe I was not clear enough about that a CC0 license if you want to call that a license it's not a real license would be the preferred option but whether you can use it or not is dependent on the legal situation you are in and also and I'm referring to data which are copyright protected many researchers would like to use the CC buy license because they feel and it really is a feeling because they feel that if they use the CC buy license there's a stronger incentive to cite which in practice I think is not the case but it's very difficult to communicate to a researcher audience to use a CC0 license for them it sounds like saying their data is not worth much which of course I'm not saying but it's it's always a very difficult argument to tell someone who has worked possibly years to produce a data set and say it's not protected very difficult


Can you also talk a bit about what are some of the key findings of this board? At a high level, we've identified five key takeaways from this year. One being that you can be as fast, as stable, and as reliable as you want to be, but none of that really matters unless you have a nice healthy culture. We also see that user centricity and focusing on the user, so adopting a product mindset and letting the user drive everything that you do is a key indicator of successful teams and successful organizations. We also looked at documentation, again, which I know to some people might be kind of a boring topic, but some of the findings that we have in the way that quality documentation amplifies technical abilities. As an example, we see a 12.8x improvement in trunk-based development for organizations that have high levels of documentation quality, which I think is quite amazing. It kind of turns a maybe a boring topic on its head and makes it much less boring to people that are looking to improve. Then we looked at flexible infrastructure, which was a highlight. Previously, what we did was we kind of looked at the NIST five characteristics of cloud computing, and we asked, are you taking advantage of these characteristics? We kind of used that as a proxy for using cloud. This year, what we wanted to do was we wanted to separate those things and understand what role does cloud play, what role does flexible infrastructure play, and does cloud enable flexible infrastructure. What we found as practitioners, this is probably a kind of a no-duh kind of mode, because a lot of us have been talking about this for a long time, but what really matters is how you implement cloud. If you use cloud without flexible infrastructure, you actually see a decrease in performance metrics, but if you use cloud by taking advantage of the characteristics of flexible infrastructure, that's kind of where you see improvement. Then we also took a look at individuals that identify as being underrepresented, and how does work distribution affect those people? From a highlights perspective, that's I would say those are kind of the top five.


So we'll go ahead and inshallah just dive right in. Today we are going to be focusing on two different sections of the book. One in which Imam al-Haddaad is going to be talking about Aqidah or belief that we need to have and we'll kind of breeze through that section inshallah and then we'll get to the next one which is where he's going to be talking about how we prioritize our religious obligations. So last time we covered the ways in which we should follow the book and the sunnah, right? Follow the Kitab and the sunnah that the Prophet Sallallahu Alaihi Wasallam told us in many hadith that if you stick to the Quran and you stick to the sunnah of the Prophet Sallallahu Alaihi Wasallam inshallah, you will be saved and you will be in a good state. And so that's the framework for which we'll use to continue into this discussion now. So he talks next about Aqidah and belief and Aqidah is basically the creed of the Muslims, right? What exactly do you and I believe? And he mentions that this is very, very important as you progress upon the spiritual path to actually have a very clear understanding of your belief. Most of us we learn this either when we convert into Islam if we entered into the religion later in our life or when we were young. But it's important to refresh it and he says it's important to have kind of systematically at least review it at some point in your life. And so the most important thing here is making sure we're following the correct belief, right? There are generally speaking the majority of the Muslims are following similar types of beliefs but that's not always the case. Over the course of the last 1400 years there have been quite a lot of various sects and divergent beliefs that have developed. And so it's important to follow what Imam Hadaad is saying now is the beliefs of the group known as Ahl Sunnah wa Jama'a, that you want to follow that type of creed and you want to follow that understanding of the of the religion. And so there are various books when this is not a lesson on Aqidah. So there's various books that someone can dive into to try to understand those. But what is that? The basic creed of the Muslims is you believe in Allah, you believe in the messengers, you believe in the angels, we believe in the books, we believe that all of the prophets came down with the message of Tokid and with the message of oneness of Allah. We believe in the afterlife, we believe in the grave, we believe in the realities of the grave and the punishments of the grave and the good aspects of the grave. We believe that on the day of judgment, we believe then in heaven, we believe in hell and so on and so forth. And those are at least intellectually, we start to believe those things. But as he's mentioned throughout, and we've been talking about that the belief gets to a point where it starts to become reality, right? It's not just an intellectual concept. You go from the knowledge of certainty to the truth of certainty. And that as somebody practices and works on themselves more and more, they start to attain these levels and they start to attain these actual beliefs, or they start to attain these actual realities based on their beliefs. So that's kind of what he's mentioning here, right? Then what's important to do as a practical takeaway is to review one basic text of Aqidah at some point, ideally with a teacher, with a scholar. And there's various also kind of classes that people can follow along online in which texts of creed are taught. A very, very solid one that's recommended is the creed written by Imam al-Hazali in the second book of the Aqiyah al-Lumuddin. It's just been translated. So if you just search Imam al-Hazali and then Aqidah or creed, you'll be able to get that as an English translation, excellently translated over the last couple of years. And just review it and read through it, right? So just kind of know, okay, what are the beliefs of Ahl al-Sunnah wa jama'a? What he also mentions is don't go too deep into the kind of theoretical aspects of belief, right? Your actual yakin, your actual certainty will not be increased by studying and memorizing all these facts. It will be increased by understanding and then by implementing the religion and working on ourselves. That's as we start to increase our yakin. But again, we just want to study this at some point. And so the risk of not doing this is we start to get into some confusing beliefs. There's beliefs out there now that every single religion is true and Islam is one of those many true religions. That's not the belief of the Muslims. There are people within the tradition of Islam who might believe that belief. But the Muslim belief is that no, the other traditions have been changed, they've been morphed, and the Prophet SAW came to rectify and to correct things and that he is the last and final messenger and his message overtakes and abrogates and overtakes these other messages, right? And so we're supposed to believe in the specifics and the core aspects of the message of the Prophet SAW. That is one example of a belief that if somebody doesn't study the yakinah, they could be like, oh, yeah, well, you know, I guess so. I guess everybody's kind of just, you know, everybody's kind of on the truth and it all makes sense and it's all relative anyways. And that's where it starts to get, that's not the belief of the Muslims, right? And especially in the Western context, sometimes we people start to think that that we don't want to be thinking things that are incorrect. If someone doesn't think the right things, they won't, at some point in their life, they won't do the right things because this is one thing Imam al-Khazali really emphasizes. This is knowledge precedes action. If you don't have the right knowledge, you won't have the right action. Your action will have some mistake in it. So someone doesn't really understand how to like pray. They'll be like, oh, well, I just want to pray like according to the way I feel is good. Well, you can feel what, what you prefer to feel, but that doesn't mean that's the way Allah wants us to pray. Allah wants us to pray in a very, very specific way, right? So we might not see the value of why should I pray standing up and bowing and doing all these things. Maybe I just want to walk around and have a conversation with God. Well, we should do that too, but that doesn't take the place of the prayers, right? It doesn't take the place of the five prayers. This is when knowledge precedes the action. So same thing with Aqidah and with belief that the knowledge and understanding of true creed must, must enter somebody and must be a part of what we study in order to make sure that our actions that we're doing and the beliefs that we have are, are all valid, right? And it's very surprising the number of conversations. I mean, I've had a number of conversations with people who, who just have very different understandings of things than what the traditional scholars have taught, right? And the understanding has usually come from them not studying something properly and just developing their understanding over time. We don't want to do that, right? We want to understand things in the way that the Sahaba and in the way that the Salaf understood things. That's how we want to understand things. And then that's, that would be translated down into the time that we, the time that we live in. So we'll move on now to really the next section. That was like probably the quickest, the quickest section that we'll cover. Does anybody though before I move on actually have questions on that? Questions I'm going to just spoke about before we keep going on creed and, and belief. No. Okay. Cool. If any questions come up, please feel free to chime in. Okay. So then now this is then the next, the next section, which is religious obligations, right? So like, he, his, he titled the section in the book on religious obligations, but we're going to talk about this more like how do we prioritize what types of actions we end up doing, right? The most, the framework that he lays out here is that the most important thing we can ever do in our life is to stay away from the things God has told us not to do and to do the things God has told us to do. And to, that ultimately allows the human being to realize a state of humility before Allah that I'm not running my own show here. I'm, I submit to a creator and someone doesn't have the humility to recognize that they still submit to somebody else. They're follow everybody's following somebody, especially in the days of social media, everybody's following each other and when everybody's following someone, following the celebrity, following this politician, following this person, following this philosopher, so on and so forth. But the Muslim, they follow the Prophet's Islam and the Prophet's Islam is getting his being from Allah, right? That's what that's, that's who the Muslim follows. So the core goal in, in life here is to obey what he has told us to do and stay away from what he's told us not to do, right? So Imam al Haddad, he talks a lot about in the last, like maybe five or 10 different sections that all the extra actions you can do, what he calls supragratory actions. He says, get your basics down and then start doing extra things, right? Start doing extra Nawafil prayers, start reciting the Quran often, start to learn knowledge, start to do, do the Sunnah of the Prophet's Islam and so on and so forth. But now what he's going to do is he zooms out a little bit and he says, just remember that before you get too deep into the extra, make sure you're prioritizing your actions correctly, right? Make sure we're prioritizing our actions correctly. So he says, it's better to perform all of the obligations that God has said, all of what's called the farah, the farah actions, which are, you know, few things, right? But they are very critical and stay away from the haram things and not do any extra, not do anything extra, not do any extra du'as and any extra things, but just do the basics than it is to do some of the farahid and do a fair amount of extra and kind of sort of not really stay away from the haram, just stay away from what we want to, right? He says that the first is better and that it's interesting because in our time, it's very difficult to really prioritize the obligations. And I'm going to talk about this in kind of what context are we doing, doing me in here. But in our time, it is difficult to prioritize the things that God has told us to do and to stay away from the things God has told us not to do. It can be difficult. And so many times we'll just, we won't know how to prioritize things. And so we will say, oh, well, I live in the West. This should be fine. I'll go ahead and do this haram thing.  But that's a fine way to look at it. We shouldn't stop the extra day, extra good deeds, but it's not the correct way to look at it. It's not the way that Allah would want us to look at it, right? Allah has an order of priority, right? And he mentioned this in the famous Hadith Qudsi, which is mentioned in this chapter that my servant does not draw nearer to me except that by that, that I've made obligatory on them, obligatory. And he hasn't actually made that many things obligatory contrary to maybe when we were growing up and we learned about the rules of the religion and like, dude, this religion is all rules and no fun, right? Like, that might have been the way we thought about it. But at some point you get to a point in life, where are you okay? No, Hamdullah, this is doable, right? There's rules to everything. And if you don't obey the rules, I was just driving on, I don't know if anybody saw the construction on telegraph, but like redoing and repaving the road. This morning I was driving on it. And like, there's no lanes anymore because they are still working on the road. And so like one car is kind of driving here, one car is driving here, one car is like driving in the middle. Like there's no very, very clear lanes. And the thought that came to my mind, I was like, Subhanallah, what if life had no lanes? Like, what if Allah gave us no boundaries in life, right? That everybody, and we see that manifesting in the Western world today where people don't have, they don't want to go by any lanes, no rules. It's my rules. It's my way, right? My way or the highway. It's just, it's the way I want to do things. There's no boundaries. If you have no boundaries, you eventually result in problems starting to happen, right? So maybe it doesn't happen in the first five, 10 minutes, but at some point while someone is driving, if you ever drive in a country where they don't, even if there are lanes where they don't really follow the rules of the road, you'll see what I mean here. At some point people are just like merging, he's going here and then at some point someone's going to hit somebody, an accident is going to happen, right?  That's not the point of the rules. Allah gives us rules so that we, so he can benefit us. He knows that, hey, this is a creation I created that's weak, right? And they need guidance on how to figure this whole thing out because I am the one who also created this game of life. And now I'm going to give you the rules of life, right? And this is the rules by which you can attain nearness to Allah. And this is the rules of which we can attain the pleasure of Allah. And that is the ultimate, ultimate, ultimate goal. So the point where Allah mentioned in the Qur'an, how much regret people will have in the next life because they'll say they'll be thrown into, there's various verses which mentioned, they'll be thrown into the hellfire and they'll ask Allah, ya Allah, just one more chance, just let me go back. Let me go back and I'll change my life completely. Everything it is that I did, everybody around you doing something, and you're like, I can't do it. I can't do it because it would displease Allah. It does take patience. But that is at the point at which patience Allah says he rewards patience. When one, he says, Allah, you're hip-boosting. He loves the people of patience. Then he says he's with the people of patience. And then he says he rewards the people of patience without any limit. He continues to reward them and continues to reward them. And so, we really, really want to keep