The idea behind this panel is to really turn the tables on a standard framing or narrative around climate change. And if climate change is a crime novel, every crime novel has to have a victim. And the crime is humanity's assault on nature through industrialism. And the victim is poor people everywhere, especially developing world. But as we know from Katrina and other stories that are often seen as harbingers of climate change domestically in enriched countries as well. And there's a couple of ironies surrounding that narrative. One, we've already talked about in previous panels, which is that it turns out that if you look at sustainability and climate change discourse, often what counts as sustainability in poor countries amounts to a shadow of the kind of economic and standard of living aspirations of the world as, for example, the United Nations define sustainable energy access as a light bulb, a fan, and a radio. And this gets to this tension that the energy panel discussed so interestingly between climate change issues and energy access issues. But there's also this sense of the victim as powerlessly sitting back and waiting for bad things to happen to them. And that also seems, to me, not only to be false, empirically false, all one has to do is look at the dynamic things that are going on everywhere from China to Indonesia to Brazil that make a mockery of this notion of victimhood. But also it forecloses this idea that there is much to be learned from the pathways that develop in countries and that disenfranchised populations in affluent countries are going to be creating and building on as we deal with a world that, as Brad says, yes, has to confront climate change, but many, many other complex challenges and opportunities as well. So the idea of this panel is to say, we're not going to talk about victimhood and we're not going to talk about death and disaster. We're going to talk about opportunities that new patterns of development that can create, that challenges can stimulate in terms of innovation and creativity. And think about new pathways to a better world that actually the developed world may well be able to learn from as other countries and other populations show the way. So I think we'll start with each of the panelists just talking for a few minutes about the sorts of ways that they're thinking about the future in a more positive, less kind of victim-centric approach and then dig into some specifics and then open it up to conversation with you all as soon as you guys have had your say. So, Nikki, do you want to get started? Sure. I work mostly on domestic issues just as an FYI. So I will be gently taking us into international as we move this way. But I wanted to. Exactly. See, he was already thinking that way. So I wanted to draw us a picture, create some context. When we talk about domestic climate change issues and when we talk about international climate change issues, what are the similarities there? The similarities is that climate vulnerability and exposure for the people that are most impacted, the reasons why they are the most impacted tend to be the same domestically and internationally. It's because of things that are non-climate related. It's because of infrastructure. It's because of poverty. It's because of environmental issues that were in existence before the recent climate change.  Moving on. Phenomenal. No, because it's... Hysteria. I think it was looking at the last panels. The way that we talk about climate change right now is very different than the way that we talked about climate change 50 years ago, the way that we talked about climate change 100 years ago. We have been terraforming the earth for a while since the beginning of agriculture. And there have been cultures, ethnic tribes, different groups of people that have been very aware that there is no crisis point of the way that we manage the earth where everything will be perfect. We're changing things all of the time. And the way that we talk about it now is slightly different than that. So it's the recent phenomenon of climate change. But when we talk about hope, considering that the risks are the same, domestically and internationally, one of the things that's very hopeful for me is that those who are most impacted tend to also be the ones that are the most clear about what needs to be done. I was executive director of Green For All until late last year, which is a national organization that focuses mainly on green jobs. And one of the things that we did was commission a study. And we published a report about what people of color think about climate change in America. And the reason why this report was unique was because African-Americans had been polled, Latinos had been polled, and Asian-Americans had been polled separately. And that data was being held in separate camps, but there wasn't a study that aggregated all of that data to see how people of color in America really thought about climate change. And what we found was that 75% of likely voters who are mostly over the age of 50, so this is not just the inconvenient truth generation of youngsters that I'm talking about here, they all actively seek information on climate destabilization and have over the last two years, 70% of people of color in this country would actually change how they vote depending on what a candidate says about climate change. And 50% of those people felt like climate change and the reason to deal with it is immoral imperative. So when I get into these, I'm gonna get into some real specifics about how different communities across the country and across the world are dealing with climate change from the bottom up, but when I get into those specific examples, what I want you to remember is that part of not considering those who are most impacted victims is just in the beginning asking them, how do you think about this? How do you think about yourselves? What is the context that you create for yourself? And clearly the context is, if we mess it up, we gotta clean it up. So I'll begin with an example. I work on water and agricultural issues and I work with farmers in Arizona where I'm working and also in India. So it's always very striking to me how the two groups perceive climate change. So back in Arizona, we got funding to do, to look at impacts of climate change on agriculture.  This will just break all the relation between you because the perception here is the moment you say climate change, the farmer is thinking ahead about all the regulations that will come his way and his or her way and they are thinking about how that would decrease their autonomy and more federal regulation and so on. And so they are very opposed to this. And then when I go to India I talk to farmers about climate change. This is a conversation starter in fact. Or somebody is asking me about stuff that I have been thinking for a very long time and I've been trying to communicate and nobody has been listening to me. So they would start talking about the fact that the rain is coming late. They have their own narratives about how the climate is changing. This insect comes out later now. The frogs are appearing later or whatever have you. And then they have their own way. Slowly the conversation will go on to what are they thinking about, how to deal with the situation. And the whole narrative there is about how climate change is impacting their everyday operation, how it is affecting their livelihoods and then how they are dealing with what they can do about it. So how are they thinking about, and there are several examples of how they are already putting in, without knowing this is adaptation or mitigation or whatever, just thinking about solutions, about simple technologies that can, so I'm planting late, I'm working with the output, the person I sell my output to, I have already talked to him about what would happen if I sell the product later this time and they work that whole thing out. So I think it has a lot to do with how you build the narrative as one being of opportunities or and so making, empowering people thinking about innovations and opportunities as opposed to this narrative of more and more regulations. There the government doesn't work anyways. So people are, so in that sense it helps, people are already thinking about what they can do themselves. And so I think this victimization narrative I completely agree has done more damage here. So I think about what's going on in developing countries and how decisions in places like Washington DC impact economic opportunities in those places. And the short answer is it's becoming less and less relevant what happens in Washington. Why is this? So one is that people are getting massively richer. In the next 15 years, a billion people around the world will come out of poverty. The World Bank does projections on when are we looking at the end of extreme poverty around the world? The margin is somewhere in the next 15 years. The worst case scenario is 93% of the global population will be out of extreme poverty but they're projecting it's gonna be closer to 97. So we're looking at very small margins. And not just extreme poverty but we're seeing hundreds of millions of people go from poverty into the lower rungs of the middle class. Which is fantastic news including for the planet even though it makes some people nervous. I'll come to the connection in a second. It's not just people are getting richer countries are getting richer. Right now the World Bank one way we think of it is do you qualify for cheap loans from the World Bank?  If you're not a poor country you don't you get commercial loans. Right now the World Bank has 78 countries that qualify. Within 10 to 15 years that will be probably around two dozen. We're seeing almost total wipe out of the current the current system that thinks of poor and rich countries. They're all moving into the middle income. And this is also great news. It means that countries will have greater access to finance, greater capabilities, greater abilities to deliver their own needs. And it also means much less importance and relevance for the West. And essentially the developing world and this is almost every country is they're not waiting for us. This is not like it was in the 1980s or even early 1990s. It's also great news for both them and for us but it does force us to rethink what our role is. And I'll come back to the first panel which I think is a good window into this which is on the energy gaps. They're just massive. As people are rising out of poverty and become entering the middle class, right now there are more than a billion people, something between a billion and two billion people that don't have access to regular electricity. I was just looking at the data. Canada versus say Ethiopia, average Canadian will use about 16,000 kilowatt hours per person per year. Average Ethiopian around 50. So we're talking 300 times. Ethiopia happens to be one of the fastest growing economies in the world pulling people out of poverty very fast and as these poor countries grow the demand for energy is just absolutely going to expand rapidly. But the way that we think about it is seems completely outdated. So for example modern energy targets are just not modern. The way that we think, if I give you a statistic that 15% of the population in Tanzania has access to energy, what that means is that the IEA estimates that the average person has 100 kilowatt hours per person per year. That is what a Canadian will use in two days. So we're not anywhere near modern energy access and we need realistic targets if we're gonna think about what is the actual demand that we're likely to face so that we can have adequate responses. And this means fine, solar lamps are fine if you need a couple of light bulbs and a cell phone charger but that's not modern energy. I just don't think until you can run an iron ore smelter on solar panels that we're going to be able to move to totally carbon free sources. And I know everyone throws around the cell phone example we can leapfrog. There's really important lesson from cell phones but it's not leapfrogging from hard wire to wireless. It's that when you start to provide a service that poor people want, even poor people that you think don't have any extra cash, they will pay if it's a good service. That is why in Nigeria there's only 12 million bank accounts but there are 60 million cell phones because there's absolutely people will pay these are some of the most profitable businesses and they're available everywhere and we will see that in energy as well. So what does that mean for outsiders? One, I think we need to accept that a high energy planet is inevitable. We're not gonna be able to stop that and we should move forward rather than trying to constrain growth and consumption. We should try where we can to work to create incentives for cleaner sources and ensure that the energy generation that's gonna happen as oil and gas and all of these other sources get developed actually leads to expanded access for people. This means investing in things like new business models for distribution. And then something I hope we'll talk about is that ethically I think it's very, very important for those of us sitting in San Francisco or Washington D.C. or London to avoid some of the gross hypocrisy that I hear about when I travel to Africa that is that we are pushing poor countries to adopt cleaner technologies. We're trying to deny certain access to finance for things like natural gas power plants. And this comes at a time when here in the United States we have 3,400 power plants that run on fossil fuels. Country like Ghana, which I visit every year has two, they would like to build number three and we're trying to stop them. Okay, thanks. So you've provided kind of a high level look at the reasons why we can expect different development pathways to emerge in both domestically and populations that are perhaps not part of the mainstream economy but especially in across the developing world. So I know each of you are also thinking more specifically about models, about opportunities, about the way the world might look and also what we might learn. So can we burrow down a little bit now and talk a little more specifically about the sorts of things you're either thinking about or seeing happening or trying to make happen? Yeah. When I was thinking about examples, a couple of themes that I noticed were that they both came out of non-climate related fields and they activated specifically in response to climate disasters, which brought up another theme, which is documenting post-disaster innovations is incredibly important and it's something that I can't emphasize enough because there are a number of anecdotal stories about well after Sandy, well after Katrina, well after the hurricane, well after the storm, well after the earthquake, but then when I look for data, how many people, what did it take to do this? How much money would it take to expand it? That kind of stuff isn't really there and so we need to invest in research to make sure that as innovations come up in real time, we're keeping pace with what's available. So one of these things in terms of a field that's non-climate related is the collaborative economy, which is Uber, Airbnb, the sharing economy, it has a lot of different names and Airbnb has a disaster relief program that started organically after Hurricane Sandy in New York because they noticed, the Airbnb staff noticed that after the hurricane, people tried to start listing their homes for $0 because they wanted to house refugees from the storm in the neighborhood that these people were familiar with because one thing about relocating, if your home gets destroyed by a storm or you can no longer go into your neighborhood, is that small things become very important, right? That store that you're used to going to, your dry cleaning is still at this place and so you lose a lot of clothes because you can't go pick it up. My dog only will walk in this one neighborhood. There's just, there's things that feel really small but they're actually really important, especially when your home is no longer available to you. So Airbnb scrambled and struggled and in 24 hours created a platform that would allow people to list their home for no money to specifically house and feed folks that were recovering from a storm. And at this point, well, after, during Sandy, 1,400 homes opened up and since then in Serbia, Bosnia and Croatia for people affected by the Balkan floods, this platform was used. In London, Sardinia and Colorado, this platform was used after the floods. The Greek island of Keflonia after the earthquake and they've been partnering with cities to try to make this more available on the front end because right now it only activate, it's user generated, right? So it's completely grassroots at this point and it activates when people activate it when there's an event but they're trying to partner, actually the city of San Francisco was one of the first cities that they tried to partner with to actually put this in place beforehand because government officials can also be housed there if and when housing that's sponsored by the government isn't available quickly enough. And the other example that I wanted to bring up was the two bridges neighborhood. So two bridges is a neighborhood that's in the lower east side of Manhattan and after the storm there, one of the things they realized was that food and water was one of the biggest issues for people. I mean, there's obviously energy and there were obviously other issues but one of the reasons why food and water came up so much was because the two bridges neighborhood is incredibly diverse and that's one thing about America, but I mean, America, yeah, but Manhattan is just, it's a on steroids version of this. People living next door to each other that really don't speak the same language. 30 different languages spoken in a two block radius. Immigrants, just mistrust because the people that run the bodegas are not the same people that shop there. There's just cascading and multiple layers of issues that meant that even if there was infrastructure to be used in this neighborhood, getting past some of the cultural barriers to make sure that everyone had access to it would have been a big problem. So urbane development is a firm that went into the two bridges neighborhood and decided to start a climate resilience plan using food because the bodegas in that neighborhood were a hub where everyone would go for everything. And are people familiar with like who's a New Yorker in here, people that know how important bodegas are? Because I mean, bodegas two in the morning, I need anything. I need batteries and I need cat food and I need toilet paper and I need food for me. You know, it's an organic cereal and you can get all of that in a bodega depending on what bodega you're at. So these bodegas are incredible hubs in the community that people go to for everything. And so they surveyed 200 plus bodegas in the neighborhood to figure out what type of people owned it, what type of shoppers were there, what kind of food they offered and starting with cooking classes and neighborhood tours, they started to weave the community together. They got community translators so that people who knew how to speak a few different languages because to make sure everybody knew how to talk to each other. And they started, the thing that I wanna lift up here is they started by building trust because when you're dealing with working class folks trust is incredibly important. It's the very first thing. And then on top of that, phase two is gonna be making sure that there is a hub, that there are hubs at a few different bodegas so that they can have community generated power and broadband access. So it's a lot like the mesh networks that are coming up, only these mesh networks are gonna be bi people of color, low income people, for low income people. And so it's a pretty brilliant project and I haven't seen anyone approach it that deliberately before because usually when mesh networks like that come up in those kind of neighborhoods maybe they fall apart because of that trust factor. Someone's downloading something so I'm gonna cut them off and then it just falls apart. So the last thing I just wanna say is that the population of the two bridges neighborhood is 25,000 to 30,000 people. So this is a solution that could happen on that scale and could be replicated on that scale for different local populations. So I just wanna tie together two points and maybe this is obvious but Todd's point about DCs becoming increasingly irrelevant actually ties into a bigger point. I mean we're talking about very kind of grassroots bottom up creative context specific solutions which is the opposite of the way climate change has been framed from the beginning which is we've gotta have an international global governance scheme that imposes the same regime on all countries and what you're talking about is in some sense just completely saying that hasn't worked, it's not gonna work, screw that. What we really need to do is unleash creativity at the local level and see what happens. So Rindram, I know you've got some fabulous examples of that sort. Right, along the same lines, my background is as a development economist. I was trained here and we were taught exactly, I mean some what 20 years back about the same model of the centralized kind of planning top down and then how you can deliver goods from the top onto the bottom and just getting more and more better about doing that same model becoming more and more efficient but keeping the top down model in mind. But now I think both climate change and the spread of information and information technology is what it has done has just completely put that model on its face sort of turned the whole thing around because the whole way the narrative about inequality also came in was you look, you're planning for a country you look at areas which are best endowed you give those areas first all the resources and then you go streaming down and it's all that way. Now with information, with ITC technologies this whole thing has completely turned. For example, so now I'll come to my specific example. So for decades people, very brilliant people in my own country, I come from India have been working on great mathematical models of planning and some has worked, some of it has worked but we haven't seen much progress and now over the past two decades the field has opened up. It was completely dominated by economists and probably some engineers. So we have this huge country we are going to divide it into zones like you were talking about these clusters. So we're not going all the way to say every person is going to have all the services. That's of course very expensive. How do we think about community clusters all through the country and create hubs where we provide infrastructure and services. So instead of providing, making sure that every person has access to broadband we're going to create clusters and these clusters will come up in areas which let's say they were major tourist centers major historical sites, major marketing sites create clusters all around the country and then link those clusters with the villages through what they called a bicycle commute economy. So you pick up major clusters all through the country you provide them all the infrastructure and build on that infrastructure a set of services and then connect those hubs so there are these spokes going from the hubs that connect you to all the villagers in it. So it's not all the way this idealism of providing every person every service but making sure that the hubs are provided with the essential infrastructure and services. And then what you do is make use of what is special about that particular locality in which the hub is located. So it's not a uniform model of development we apply and it goes around the same thing to every place. We find out what is so special about a particular region. Maybe this region is very good has been known for its handicrafts. So this is what we focus on. There is another region which is known for its beautiful beaches. So this is a different kind of model that we are going to promote. And from those hubs then you build on the services and you connect people and you focus on local diversity and people's talents, local talents and link that up into a national vision of development instead of sort of this top down. And I think with climate change what has happened is that there is greater recognition of local knowledge. So like this example of the farmer that I was talking about, previously people would be know the model was that the expert will come and tell the farmer what has to be done. Now we recognize that this farmer has local knowledge that climate change is so much about the local impacts and the local impacts are very different in different places and we need to leverage that local knowledge and that is how you empower that poor person because what he has now is being valued which is his local knowledge. And so with that empowerment you build a model from the bottom up to and this has been tried in India. It's being talked about and being implemented. Very interesting example similar to what you were talking about. So just going back to that point I don't think it's the cell phone per se which is going to change the world or the solar pumps itself but I think this whole new paradigm that if we sort of engage with it there are components of it. I think that the total picture is what is transformative not so much these particular elements of... So how does the technology lead to social empowerment? How does it let local diversity flower? I think just connecting those dots are important rather than specific pieces of the technology. Todd, are you seeing examples of a different paradigm that the world can learn from? So I mean I'm seeing the US to kind of pile on our growing irrelevance and kind of our penchant to be quickly distracted by a shiny thing rather than what people are actually asking for. The president last summer, summer 2013 went to Tanzania in East Africa. This country even by the lowest standard only one out of eight people has any electricity at all. They also have a massive offshore natural gas discovery. They're trying to figure out how are they gonna work with the Norwegians to develop that? How are they gonna turn that massive natural gas discovery not only into cash for exports but also into domestic energy? The president happened to be there announcing a major US effort to try to promote electrification in Africa. Tanzania was gonna be one of the focus countries. They were gonna work with the Tanzanians on converting policy issues to convert natural gas into power. How do you get it into the villages? How do you get it? Deal with some very difficult policy issues. President Kame talked about that. But still this whole idea of technology, many people still think of technology as a gadget. It's an app on your phone.  It's not about ideas. So the president is there. The biggest issue in Tanzania. He announces the energy. What does he choose to do to highlight at the photo op? He pulls out something we heard earlier. The socket. The soccer ball created by American college students to recharge cell phones. I think I'll leave it there. Okay, well, we've got a few minutes left and I'd love to have a conversation amongst all of us, so please. So thank you very much. I think being newly in Africa here would be really sad if he said anything about the idea that I had here. The question I have is this. Are any of these bottom up approaches existing outside a policy framework? Now, having asked that question, let me just update you on something real. There are more cell phones in Nigeria than there are people. At the last count, there are 90 million cell phones in Nigeria. We are, as an environmentalist, I wonder what's gonna be the problem after those phones are discarded? What do we have in mind for those? But for me, the issue has really been policy, no matter what we think. And I think the problem has been transparency and accountability. Where Nigerians cannot even vote someone they think should come into power. Now, until we deal with those issues, I think when we discuss energy, when we discuss climate, when we discuss development, the issues of policy and politics must not be left to background or even what's the word now, left alone. The question is, does any of these ideas exist outside the policy framework? The governmental policy framework. So just to contextualize what you're really asking is, if you don't deal with these bigger governance problems, is it possible for this kind of creativity to flourish? So what do you think? So again, one example from India. I mean, there are lots of initiatives on what is called e-governance where people are using the cell phone technology to talk about, you know, the road, the monsoons came, the road is completely destroyed. So you go, there is a mobile net, there is a mobile, it's called, mobile cell of the water department, of the roads department where you can report these complaints. And I think the way it has worked is that there are certain stages. So there was a law passed on the right to information. There are regulations being talked about on facilitating greater transparencies. And so I think these new technologies provide the medium to think in new ways about how you can promote transparency and accountability. So there is a lot of, you know, these small computer kiosks where you can give feedback on the government services, which is having a tremendous impact. I'm not saying that that's the complete solution. There are still problems, but I don't think it has so much either or we can use technology to further some of these governance challenges. And I, yeah, I have a response to that one too. Both of these examples that I cited are having challenges with the policy infrastructure. And so for me, the question of how these types of solutions exist inside of a policy and governance framework is what are the barriers to scale, right? The collaborative economy is in a huge conversation right now about whether it's even legal to exist because it's challenging the hotel industry, it's challenging the taxi industry, it's challenging former ways of regulation. And one of the reasons why something like this could happen is because it exists outside of current regulation and it can move much more quickly because of it. But that's a double-edged sword. So that's a very insightful question. And with the two bridges example, the president's resiliency task force last year of 25 mayors was specifically because the federal government had this sneaking suspicion that there may be laws on the books that are preventing mayors from being able to create resiliency efforts in their cities that were just outdated and perhaps stupid. Things like we're not allowed to move sand from this part of the city to the other. So when there's a flood, we can't use sandbags, right? And this law, that particular example was great because it wasn't created because of any environmental issue. It was literally created because these two mayors were at war with each other 50 years ago. And so I wanted to just draw a line because my beach is better than yours. And now that feud is actually no longer legitimate. And so when you have to create an entire task force just to update municipal policies that says something. So I think that there's something to be said for just do it. And then once you see what policies and regulations you bump up against, that opens a real time in context and not theoretical conversation about what policies and regulations you need in place to allow innovation to flourish. Todd, do you have thoughts on this tension between governance and bottom up? Yeah, I mean, in a lot of countries, in most developing countries, the basis for accountability is the relationship between population and government is the tax system and just doesn't exist. I mean, less than 5% of Nigerians pay direct tax. It's all indirect. So, and that's a good reason that a lot of countries that have been reliant on external finance to support themselves rather than domestic taxpayers, they're much more accountable to London or Oslo or Paris than they are to their own citizens. And so, you know, Ringe's point that the reach of mobile phones, and I made fun of gadgets, now I'm gonna be in favor of gadgets, is that you can do all kinds of polling and feedback from cell phones that you could never do before. And you don't need a smartphone, you can do this with the old style phone. So you've got a lot of corruption reporting of local officials, you've got reporting in Kenya, of corrupt police officers, you've got places where parents can report if the teacher isn't showing up to school for the first time that can all be done through cell phones. So you are seeing technology, try to build accountable systems, but it's all sort of second best because you don't have a social contract through the, at least through the European model of governance. Let's move to our lightning round. So, we have multiple, we only have one, we can have a slow lightning round. Wow, we cleaned Africa. You know, it's funny, we hear this argument made here often about how micro solutions are the wave of the future and everything's consumer facing and we're moving away from sort of the mainstream structure of society. I'm not sure that that necessarily works in emerging and frontier countries because we have the luxury of doing that, knowing that we've got our infrastructure to fall back on. And I don't think in those places, I mean, it's nice to have a cell phone, you know, but does that make a country investment grade because half the population now has cell phones? Is that gonna drive commercial capital into that country? No, if it's an investment grade and they have the infrastructure in place that reduces risk, so you don't have to just go through multinational banks to get anything done, well, that's a different story. And it's still, that's what it boils down to at the end of the day. And I mean, I think it's terrific to see technology being introduced that shows traction that the people want these technologies and these solutions, but it doesn't solve the basic problem of how you, you know, convince investors to make that huge, take on that huge risk and go into these very shaky economies. Quick final comments. Well, I mean, I think that's right. Cell phone doesn't replace a port in an airport and a modern power system. So, again, I don't think anybody would argue that that's an alternative, but that gets back to, you know, some of this big old dirty, unsexy construction is really, you know, in a place like Lagos, there are tens of billions of dollars of old school construction that's gonna happen. You know, and it's not all gonna be shiny cell phone towers. And I thought what something, Lisa Marganelli said earlier about how we should, we should think about electricity for everybody as a measure of good governance. And so if you think about it in those terms, then it kind of brings these two scales together in a very tangible way. Quick final comments. Nikki Rimjim. No, I think it's just pretty much, I don't have to think. The only thing I'll say is that that's true everywhere. And it feels important to note, right? There are places in Alabama where people are still frying eggs on rocks because that's what they have access to. And so 300 million people, it's a lot of people. We have a lot of geographical space in this country. And so to ensure that everyone in your country has access to basic services and basic infrastructure, we may need to look to hubs and distributed networks for the poorest places in our country too. So let's not be too good as a developing country to use what works to take care of our citizens. Thanks, Todd, Rimjim and Nikki. Thank you all. Thanks, Corey. Thank you.


Instead of going the route of the draft could the Baltimore Ravens actually look to add a receiver via trade Proving big body wide receiver that can come in to the Baltimore Ravens and help get the job done Well, I think it is very very possible and in this special episode of questions from team keep it clean Our very first question is just about that Before we get into it gotta give a shout out to the newest team keep it clean patron Who the question is from by the way, Isaiah and let me know if I pronounce the name wrong So my apologies if I did but hopefully I got it right now his question. He said a engraving. Hey Isaiah What's up, man? He said what do you think in a trade for a big body wide receiver? Like somebody like a DK Metcalf. Oh, y'all know I would love that I would love it or a proven receiver like a Justin Jefferson now Hold on now, buddy, like with a Justin Jefferson that would be great too, but With Justin Jefferson, I just don't feel like the Baltimore Ravens have the draft capital to get a Justin Jefferson They would literally have to give up everything Everything and more to get a Justin Jefferson and Ravens ain't gonna give up everything not not a bunch of draft pick But they ain't giving up nothing crazy to acquire nobody so we can X him off the list I mean he said or a T Higgins now What T Higgins making a trade inside the AFC North? That's when you really have to give up something for sure But I don't see the Bengals like trading him to the Baltimore Ravens, especially because the Bengals and Ravens They like toe-to-toe right now So it's like those are the two top dogs in the AFC North So I don't see the Bengals being like a we trying to compete with the Ravens. You know what let's ship them to you No, yeah, I don't see that going down but One move that I could see happening Would be for Brandon. I you know, I know the report came out today Couple hours ago that all the Ravens and the Steelers and some third mystery team are interested and brand and Brandon I you and that Brandon I you requested a trade from the 49ers and then I saw that Okay, okay, I like it. Let's go, baby, but then Brandon I you agent he chimed in and he told that reporter you say hey You need to get better sources buddy. Well, he ain't say the buddy part, but he said you need to get better sources So essentially that is Brandon I you agent shut it all down We ain't request no trade from the 49ers. That's fake news. That's false information. That's a lie and I won't let you tell it but How many times have we seen the story before How many times have we seen the story before where we hear about a player possibly requesting a trade The agent or even a player may come out shut it down request no trade all For that player to be shipped off That's why with the report that said the Ravens and the Steelers were interested and then the agent shutting it down that ain't fazed me none that ain't fazed me none because Something's gonna go down with Brandon I you something is something really big either way because like I said before like y'all already know Cuz y'all are smart when a player wipes everything off in social media It means one of two things either the players about to get a big new contract from his team Let's go or that player is gonna get shipped off. He's going to get traded So a brand-new guy I do still think it is a real possibility that he does get traded Regardless of what his agent says regardless of whatever the regardless of everything I still do think it's a real possibility that he gets sent off Because the 49ers they may look at the bow. So we got the bow. Okay. That's okay. That's okay. They look at kiddo Oh, yeah, we got kiddo. That's okay. That's okay. And then they got Brock Purdy coming up Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, that's about to be our guy for sure. We got to pay him soon and they may look at um They may look at a you like Ah You know what you produce for us you do some nice things for us, but No, we we're gonna take that that draft capital We do a pretty good job of fielding a team and building a team and whatnot So we'll take those draft assets from somebody else So again, I in my personal opinion again, I don't know nothing. I don't know nobody I'm an NFL outsider. No plugs. No sources. No connects But I do still feel like Brandon Ayuk could be on up out of there Could it be to the Baltimore Ravens? It's of course possible now if He was to be traded to the Baltimore Ravens, which a lot of us would love I would wonder like hmm. What would they have to give up in order to acquire Brandon Ayuk? Would it be the first round pick? It could be could be but our receivers really going for first round is anymore Like I mean, remember Hollywood a couple years ago. He went for a first round stage. I don't act the costa, but I'm Really see you receive going for first round like that anymore, but at the same time Well, Tyreek Hill, he went for a couple of first rounders. I think but I'm So your brand are you he could go for a first round, but and it's a late first round or two It would be pick 30. So yeah, I actually could see that But it would be it could it be a first rounder and more it would well It would be a first round and more but could it be a first round and more draft picks or a first rounder and a player That's where it's been a lot of conversation amongst Ravens fans, too Which player would it be and a lot of people have brought that conversation around? Rashad Bateman Something to think about with the Baltimore Ravens Rashad Bateman Was the same thing that we had to think about the conversation We had had with Hollywood and the Baltimore Ravens around the same time in both of their careers Both first round draft picks both in the offseason where the general manager Eric the costa has to decide whether he's going to pick up their fifth year options or not and With Hollywood Eric the costa came out and said oh, yeah, we anticipate picking up Hollywood's fifth year option What happened on draft night? Traded shipped out With Rashad Bateman He was asked about oh, what's the status of Rashad Bateman in a doubt fair ways fifth year option We'll talk about that at a later date. So he didn't give us anything and we didn't expect him to give us anything, but we'll see So if they are going to possibly Trade Rashad Bateman I think the time that they would do it if they're going to do it would be now now y'all know my preference I Would love if the Baltimore Ravens found a way to get somebody like a Brandon I you Or DK Metcalfa whoever but no no no I take them back not whoever but if they were to get somebody proven or somebody Who's nice somebody who's like that somebody who's been productive somebody who's been consistent? If they could do that and keep Rashad Bateman on top of that But I know life in the NFL the business side of the NFL Don't always work like that. Don't always work in your favor like that So we'll see the team keep it clean before we continue with this episode of questions from y'all make sure you subscribe to the channel Turn them notifications on and run them likes all the way up, baby We're about to have a really great week this week. I don't know why but it's going to be great now Shout out to all the team keep it clean patrons This question again It came from the newest team keep it clean patron my guy Isaiah if you would like to become a team keep it clean patron You can go to patreon.com slash engraving vids and if you don't want to that's fine as well Now I only asked the first part of his question. So my apologies. Let's get to the second part. He said What about yeah, I like Isaiah Isaiah thinks big he thinks big outside of the box He said what about trading for Michael Parsons to replace your David? I love you. I love it. I love it. I ain't gonna happen But I would love that see out me if this was madden like cuz it madden I'd be going crazy with it I'll be going crazy with it. I'll give up the draft picks and acquire players I do it every year every every single season I do it all the time But he said what about trading for Michael Parsons to replace clowning and going for a young healthy lineman in the first round Now if you trade him for Michael Parsons, you ain't gonna have no first round pick not this year not next year You ain't gonna have no first round pick for a while. So while that will be great It's something that the Baltimore Ravens just wouldn't do next question came from another team Keep it clean patron my god down and he said well, I've been great in the middle while since I sent a question But I want to take it back a little bit. So sorry if this is a little long I recently have watched the interview at EDC talking at Penn State and it had me thinking the part in the interview Where he said he panicked when he signed Earl Thomas it made me think of why we didn't build around Lamar Jackson early in his career EDC took over in Lamar second season And I feel like EDC was still settling in his own way of thinking for the next two seasons in my opinion I think that EDC didn't know how to build around the young quarterback back then like what image of building around the young quarterback Has he been a part of? That's deep right there Because we saw with Flacco They didn't do a good job of building the offense around Flacco. They would still be very cheap Very lackluster for a lot of the parts at the wide receiver position. Now. Hey, sometimes it worked Like we see a Derrick Mason. Yeah, Derrick Mason. He did his thing with the Baltimore Ravens. He saw Anquan Bolton He did his thing with the Baltimore Ravens. We saw a Stevesman singing those things with the Baltimore Ravens But with those especially the first and the last with Derrick Mason and Stevesman senior They were way on the back ends of their careers. So it was a low risk High reward thing with the Baltimore Ravens that way it worked out with those guys And then with Anquan Bolton that that was great I think they traded like a third and fourth round picked to get Anquan Bolton And obviously worked out perfectly because they got the Super Bowl and he was a huge part of it But there were a lot of misses with Flacco There was a lot of hey, what what is this about when it came to really building the offense around Joe Flacco? But anyway, he also said After being behind Ozzie for so long I think EDC still had that build the defense and sign old receivers mindset. What do you think? Yeah? Yeah, but you spot on we now see the Texans taking advantage of that with CJ Stroud and building Around him, but I do think now Though that EDC is starting and trending in his own mindset of how he wants to build a team I just hope it's not too late and time will tell that that's that's such a great point that you brought out But time will tell this offseason like we slowly Seem like we've been seeing a change even though I mean Sammy walking And I was hype about there's Brian man I was like man. Hey, hopefully we can get some we get some Odell Beckham, Jr. Now Odell Beckham, Jr. Again, that was another one I was hoping and we'll get back. I'm sure you came in and did his thing but again, he was not he was off the field for a lot of it, but um Yeah, man, it's just it seems like he trended it like and again. He been taking them swings in the draft, too Drapped in Hollywood draft the Rashad Bateman So drafted Zay flowers and the first round picks that he drafted at wire receiver It's been nice. I mean Zay flowers and Hollywood did a thing Rashad Bateman. It's it's there. We got to get it going We got to get it going as long as he remains with the Baltimore Ravens this year So he's been trying different ways and different strategies and whatnot but it's Some got a gift and this is why a lot of us are like a like Zay flowers great He was amazing. Let's hear this thing. Awesome. And the way that the offense is changing. It's great Todd Munkin did his thing last year. Awesome But this is why people want a proven guy not somebody that's only proven, but a healthy proven guy somebody that's available and proven and somebody that's like that and proven you pair him with Zay flowers You pair him with Mark Andrews.  Next question came from another team keeping clean patron my guy Harry He said hello ingraving the team keeping clean family. I hope everyone is great today and may your problems not stress you out I appreciate that. He said the draft is coming soon and the Texans are gearing up to challenge for the AFC crown Nick Cisario has done a good job this offseason of surrounding CJ Stroud with weapons while on his rookie contract something I wish EDC did a better job of but I die grass See team keeping clean with the team keeping clean on the same page. They're on the same page But anyway continue when he said they now have Joe mixing as they're running back one Dolan Shaw says they're tight in one and Stefan digs is now their wide receiver one actually they got like two or three wide receiver ones like they got taint Dale and Is an eco Collins, but anyway, he said plus they upgraded their defense with the Neil Hunter CJ Henderson and re-signed Derrick Barnett I think that they are going to be a problem this year, but I Trust that EDC will find a way to counter their moves. Oh, they will be a problem They're problem last year again for the Ravens. They they weren't a problem Ravens looking took care of their business against the Texans But Texans they nice. He said we know as Ravens fans. We've been looking for a seat Oh my goodness see that's what I'm talking about. What do you keep it clean? We don't say fate if you're on the same page, man. He said we know as Ravens fans We've been looking for received a compliment they flowers and push for child Bateman We have struck out so far with free agents Josh Reynolds OBJ, etc I think the Texans step on digs may have inadvertently solved our problem The Texans now have too many wide receivers and I think EDC should make a trade with them Oh, wow, I think we should trade a fifth round pick for John Metchie the third He was a beast of Alabama and has the ability to play on the outside or in the slot He has great hands and isn't afraid of contact. He's 511 and 190 pounds He missed time due to an ACL tear at the end of his college career and then had a battle with cancer his rookie year Oh, yeah, yeah, I remember that part now I don't think this should keep us from getting a big body X receiver in the draft I think that adding a young veteran like him though will push Bateman And not make us as desperate for receiving in early rounds mmm, I Don't think that would really push Bateman I don't especially if they trade you because you said to them to trade a fifth round pick for John Metchie They trained a fifth round pick for a receiver I don't think that would be that wouldn't push Bateman at all because you can see that and be like Oh the fifth round that oh trade a fifth round for him like a fifth round is not necessarily a throwaway pick But it's like it's a it's a throwaway pick. It's like, okay, whatever Fifth round pick so I don't think that will push Bateman It would add more depth and more competition more so on the back end, but For beta. I don't really think that will move Bateman like that Then he said um, oh Yeah, he said I think that adding a young veteran like him will push Bateman and not make us as desperate for receiver in the early Rounds why the Texans would why the Texans will want to move on from him Is that he is basically their fifth receiver after they got digs and will be willing to get some draft Conversations since they had to give away a second round pick. What does everyone else think hopefully EDC and Lacey are listening? Shout out to Lacey the constant LDC But nah, yeah, they could do that and that is a good point Especially with the plethora of receivers that they have that is such a good problem to have I love that I know some people say oh, there's only one ball to go around Well, hey, that's a great problem to have if you got so many really good pass catchers that want to catch that ball But yeah, I just don't really think that would move Bateman like that next question. Oh my goodness Came from another team keeping clean patron. My god be as he said, what's up, bro? Hope all as well Oh, everything is great until you asked me to do this. He said good question for you Give me your top 10 all-time Ravens in order That's like Impossible for me to do in order to oh, yeah, I yeah, I can't do that But some of the best Ravens of all time try to think of 10 of them off the top of my head Erid Ray Lewis Jonathan Ogden Tarell Suggs Say Joe Flacco Lamar Jackson Who else like what tight ends as I say Taheeb then I say Shannon Shaw then I say Mark Andrew like what tight is like You can pick anyone right there and that would be three more people right there Ray Rice Who else at receiver Receiver Derek Mason there makes it came to this thing. I mean Derek Mason and Juan Bolton. We just talking about Steve Smith senior earlier So at receivers, so it's up there Chris McAllister C-Mac. Oh Jamal look Jamal Lewis Jamal Lewis, man. I'm trippin Jamal Lewis. Wow Lody nada came and set that standard for a long time Who else Yeah, man, I guess I think I think I'd actually name more than 10 Next question came from my god DJ DJ be letting the Ravens have it He said they go step on digs again not being traded to his hometown team Baltimore Ravens He said shaking my head. They'll pick up somebody who ain't played in the league in 10 years The Ravens gonna sign Steve's with senior out of retirement and say he still has the Jets and he's the Steve Smith senior of old He said I'm sick and tired to be a sick and tired of the Ravens never getting better doing anything for the boy Why receiver it's just too many great or good. Why receivers the Ravens never try and get I mean We don't know if they tried but they certainly And he said ungraven how many times has EDC just said keep it clean and went all out full of more I'm waiting all these cubies have who have actually been somewhere matter of fact been to the Super Bowl have had a great bona fide Go get anything why receiver look at my homes with Tyreek Hill now He'll with two and they suddenly become what Super Bowl contenders. Well They the dolphins were a weird kind of nice like they were not actually they they were only good against the bad teams But against the good teams Anyway, he said Joe burrow and Jamal chase Super Bowl appearance Jalen Hurtson AJ Brown Super Bowl appearance Josh Allen him and Diggs on the same page Super Bowl contenders. Yeah, they couldn't get past the chiefs either. Just just like us And when it when is EDC gonna actually bless them all with a Superstar wire see But he's also he's always so focused on the defense and give them all dookie on offense Like what is that when is he going to go law alpha Lamar because he hasn't once did so he got OBJ to keep Lamar there and then once he secured his bag OBJ is going doof gone we keep tiling injured reserve wireless Wow you all boy you cold man and Nelson Nelson Nelson dropper Lord Wow come on engraving he acts like he doesn't like Lamar I mean come on Ozzy went and got an coin boat in the go along with Tory Smith and Jacobi Jones Even flacko got wires. He was before Lamar Just talking about that kind of sort of a nut really He said this is becoming second and to keep watching do better for your QB Lamar almost eight years in and the only good thing He feels he did for Lamar was signed there He busted up Henry get Lamar that guy wireless even stop sign of people who want to weigh out peace and blessings to the channel and your family God bless so that's a nice way to end it. I appreciate that We're gonna see we're gonna see it's We're gonna see how the rest of the offseason goes we got a while to go So that's a good thing. We got about five more months left. So we'll see what EDC does Let's see what he ends up shaking up at the wire receive position. So we're gonna say ma'am and He also said you wait you watch he says all I got to say is get Lamar a wide receiver So he was basically saying hey, this was a different email on a different day He was saying watch that presser watch the pre-draft presser watch Elias lunch and he said you don't care What he says, but he said all that my guy TJ had to say get Lamar a Next questions came from my guy Java He said with the moves by the Texans and other teams What must the Ravens do to stay in their championship window and get the best out of love more? Think that's a simple answer. Just give him the best Give him the best of the best like really giving the best of the best You have some really great on the team right now.  That's like that. That's like that and that's not aging That's still in their prime or hitting their prime or closer to their prime Go get it. Yes. That's that's my my opinion. Anyway, his other question was camsire Came doing that is on club Shay Shay that Lamar over things too much instead of just playing his game and taking over What are your thoughts? Oh, yeah, I could see that for sure. That's a good way to put it I think that Cuz we talk about that a lot especially them the big games and playoff games There'll be a lot of times when it'll seem like he may be trying to play provable and you ain't got to prove nothing You ain't got to prove nothing to nobody just go out there and win Cuz no matter what happens and we talked about this before say for instance Ravens in a playoff game Ravens in the AFC Championship game and Ravens win they beat whoever it'd be the chiefs to whoever but they win and Lamar throws for like 100 100 99 passing yards and he has 108 rushing yards people could look at that and say oh man What he ran the ball so much he hardly even passed it hardly got any passing yards But if the Ravens won nobody can take that win away from him They can't no matter what they say no matter what they can't take that one with that went away from him Say for instance the same thing happened in the Super Bowl in the Ravens one Oh Lamar has a hundred eighty nine passing yards. He had a hundred three rushing yards, but the Ravens won People gonna say all they want. Oh, that's not a quarterback. That's what kind of stats of those What kind of numbers are those that are done? But if the Ravens won the Super Bowl that would be the only thing that mattered That would be it nothing else would matter so If he just played his game continue to play again in the this is the Lamar thing, but this is a Ravens thing, too They get in these big moments and they forget who they are They forget who what got them there? They got to stop forgetting next question came from my guy Michael. He said backyard receiver Hey, bro. Hope all is well with the family. I hope all is going well with the rest of your followers I got a question that asks what would be more feasible a great route running wide receiver Who's got top-notch speed and great hands over a receiver that who has that backyard mentality at times? Because I know plays aren't always going to stay on time and how are they supposed to be called? What's your thoughts? Many blesses. Hey, I appreciate you Mike Guess somebody that can do both but now I would say the The the backyard we got a great route runner and Rashad Bateman But he remember just ain't got that connection So it's important that you get a receiver that Lamar can have that connection with that it can build that trust with Somebody that can do the on-time stuff the timely stuff But somebody who when everything breaks down they break out next question came from my guy Superstar Dre He said I ain't great. Hope all others going well with you in the fam I appreciate that and he said congratulations on a new addition to the flock. Thank you very much my friend My question is to you. What do you see the Ravens going after in the draft? I mean everything they got what nine picks. Oh, yeah a little bit everything But anyway, he said my heart is telling me more on the offensive side of the ball But my head is telling me they're gonna continue to add more defense than offense Which is a definition of insanity doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result No, I think it all depends. I think they obviously need offensive linemen. You can't ignore that They need probably edge guy. You can go after corner. There's receiver So, yeah, they you still need another safety, too And then of course, you just depth just depth depth at linebacker depth and pass rush depth on the offensive line, too But often line you need starters and depth So, yeah, just yeah, like I said a little bit of everything for sure But I ain't say how do you feel about the offseason moves so far? They hit home with Derek Henry But they got to add some pieces on offensive line and why receive a room I feel like if they don't tell if they don't then they'll be wasting a prime Lamar and a bell Cal running back That they always needed about the offseason so far Yeah, Derek Henry move was nice. They brought in Derek Henry. They brought back Malik Harrison They brought back Nelson Aguilar. They brought in Josh Jones from the Texans They brought in a cornerback who played for the Texans, too But he's more so just a special teams guy, which ain't nothing wrong with that But um, it's I think the offseason so far has been underwhelming. I would say Ravens have definitely lost a lot more than they gained But that was expected because they were the best team in the league last year and they showed it Squander the big opportunity last year obviously. We ain't got to talk about that But um offseason so far. I'll say the best word to describe it is underwhelming the vitality in versatility Next question came from my guy Mark. He said vitality is to find out the state of being strong and active I want to touch on some ideas and tweaks that may take that may make our versatility even more vital and get your thoughts What's up in gravy? You know, I got a check on you the famine the little one on the way and team keeping clean hope all as well With you a much love my god more appreciate that man He's a now to get on to some points some are roster related and draft related I want to start on a defense and my pitch is let Malik Harrison start next to Roquan and Have two thumpers in the middle and have Trenton Simpson started outside linebacker. Okay Okay, so no thunder and lightning you want thunder thunder Okay, let's read he said my logic here is the strong versatility Trenton played at all three levels on the defense that cleans him from safety to lineback and edge He can play everywhere. Oh, I didn't know that. I appreciate that He said why not let him scream off the edge and also play coverage as a linebacker have him and Kyle Vannoi contain the outside While Roquan Smith and Malik Run the middle it gives me vibes when Ray had Jamil McClain and then at the nail Ellaby or even bought Scott next to him. Okay. I like that. Yeah, I didn't know that about Trenton Simpson That's something right there, man. I know he could do it all that makes me even more excited to see him He said so back to Trent. He's an athletic freaking. We have another in Kyle Hamilton. You said it himself He's a baller who plays everywhere and I'm gonna tie this all up with a draft pick. I've been high on Cooper Dijon For what no Cooper Dijon is Dijon. Not the John Cooper Dijon for a while He's a cornerback who can play boundary So you can play on the outside he can play the nickel so you can play on the inside Also, he can be an awesome safety. Oh, okay, so you do it all too I would Hamilton Dijon and Simpson so much versatility is there Each one can somewhat play each other's role on the defense or even free up one another to make a play I love that thinking I love that you you explain that perfectly. I appreciate that man. That was that was fun And that's fun to think about too like people that can do it all Um, because we have people that can do it all You can line them up at different positions and you can really disguise the defense and like you said you can make it versatile He said this is this isn't going to be as much of a mouthful But jaheem bail the titan out of fsu. He's 63 238. He's not a traditional titan He transferred from South Carolina and he was a running back tighten hybrid kind like college use check But a bit faster off rip. He's a bruising back who can rock with soft catching hands with hips Oh, excuse me with hops. Uh, he would give Todd and Lamar so much versatility I said with hips. I thought that he was talking about like him not being a stiff runner, but look I'm over here changing the word anyway He would give Todd and Lamar so much versatility as a weapon in the slot and a weapon out of the backfield And straight up dog for a back plus. He's big, but he isn't the same as Derek Henry So you'll be getting a dimension that's not on your roster. Oh, that would be something So he's a tight end slash running back. So just somebody that could do multiple things. Uh, and that I've Yeah, that was cow use check he was um Yeah, that tight end H back full back a little bit of everything But yeah, the way that you describe this guy sound like he could do a bit more but similar to uh, uh use check so, hey The modern area the the more you can do right and he also said, uh, obviously we have to get these guys first and it's uh, It's an if but definitely possible. I know all line is a need But it's not a must in round one. Check your him out. He'll be there day three Also, give John Baker a look. Uh, he's 61 210. I think he just visited the Ravens like a couple days ago, I believe Um And he said do it all type of receiver. I know you're busy, bro And we appreciate all you do sorry for the novel and you all stay blessed. Oh, no No, no, no, please don't apologize that because that was a perfect way to end this off


SCP-140 is a modern hard copy book with an unremarkable black binding, and an unknown number of white pages. The book jacket is missing, but the title, A Chronicle of the Devas, is clearly legible. Careful examination reveals there are far more pages between the bindings than could be contained within them. Readers admit to feelings of paranoia, unease, and occasional nausea while reading SCP-140, although this may be related to the subject material. SCP-141 is a small leather-bound codex, dating back to Roman times, easily carried in one hand. A user of SCP-141 must provide detailed information about a criminal proceeding. When this information is provided to SCP-141, the particulars of the case described in SCP-141 appear to become true in regards to memory and evidence surrounding the case.


is for the big bad fourth basic bye-bye, is for the woe that is upon us. Bye! Move stations and graveyards and transform them into useful forms in the outlived. It's need what does it eat, it lives on freshly furnished meat. It eats the red, it eats the hedgehog and the moose. This country has to wage to demonstrate them and democracy. The most overtly suicidal is its war against its own kids. Fourteen kids got gunned down for the same nothing that has them being gunned down regularly. The governor insists that the Second Amendment holy cow is not to blame for the massacre because he needs the gun's sale for his re-election. He purchased gun symbol of the free, turns on the school and takes seventeen lives. Are the free still free?   Last basic bye-bye is to the gun. On Tuesday we are going to be performing this same show in Sharon, Vermont. We have asked to check our website for more details. Thank you.


This is Stink Tech, Hawaii. Immunity matters here. Bingo. We're back. 4 o'clock, 4 o'clock on Thursday. And you know what that means. It's the Farmer's Series, the Hawaii Food and Farmer's Series with our special guest host, host guest, Stephanie Mark, who's here with me next to me. We have a full house. We have Stephanie, we have Cindy, we have Bert. And Stephanie is actually going to sort of be the host guest host today. And I'm just here for cooling their energy. We're here as a guest host host guest as well. So I think we all could probably be that at this point. Yeah, we could. So we're going to talk about taking advantage of technology, using technology for agriculture, the intersection of the two which we need to do for both the benefit of both and the state. So Stephanie, can you identify, describe the scope of this discussion here today? Can you also introduce our guests, Cindy and Bert? Yes, so we have with us Cindy Matsuki from Hawaii Technology Development Corporation, HTDC. And we also have Bert Lum, who is with Hawaii Open Data, 501C3 nonprofit, correct? And so basically today, our show kind of happened organically. So a couple of months ago, I was on the planning team for the Hawaii Agriculture Conference. And kind of like out of the blue, Cindy calls our planning team and is like, hey, I know I'm not agriculture, but we're trying to get more involved in the agricultural scene. And we want to see how we can utilize technology to help solve issues that the agricultural community faces. And we were like, this sounds awesome. We're not quite sure how to marry the two, but let's give it a shot. So at the Hawaii Agriculture Conference, we had a session that was basically what our show is about today, Utilizing Technology for Agriculture. And in that session, we focused on basically three local tech products, if you will. So we had 808 Planner, we had Farm Link, and we had Smart Yields. I hope you're going to describe those three. Absolutely, I will, I will. So we've had a show on 808 Planner. And it's a free online conservation planning tool for farmers to help with environmental compliance and stuff like that. We have Farm Link, which connects consumers with farmers so they can find new markets for their goods. And then we also have Smart Yields, which is all about hard data, climate data that you would use for water sensors, soil sensors, et cetera, so you can kind of mechanize farming more than being out there and digging in the soil. So during that panel, it was a packed house. It was 120 plus people. And people had all these questions and wanted to figure out, how can we continue this momentum of marrying technology with agriculture? So first I wanted to talk to you about technology. Because in my world, you're kind of a tech leader, and you're allow us to have the show on Hawaii food and farmers, maybe not the sexiest theme, but it's definitely the important thing, right? And so I was like, oh my gosh, who better than Cindy to come on and talk about technology and about all these programs that they help further technology, but also help small businesses, which a lot of our farmers in Hawaii are. And then she brought along Bert, who is another tech giant as well, as I found out today, who's kind of got his hands involved in everything. So I thought we could take these decades of experience you guys have in the tech field, and me as the small little agricultural voice, a nonprofit voice, and how can we really discuss what issues does the agricultural community face? So we could talk about lack of land, we could talk about access to water, finding new markets, et cetera. But I thought because you guys have all these tech skills and programs, you could talk about those first, and then we could kind of see a way that agriculture can fit into that, and we can help both sectors at the same time. Wow. This is only a six-hour discussion. We're going to try to fit it into 28 minutes and 30 seconds. So we can do it. Can we talk about the August program, the one that got this started, where 120 people showed up? What was going on there? Yeah, so the agriculture conference we featured those three tech sessions. But Cindy was there, almost as a spy trying to get some inside information, and really visit all these different panels to see what were the common themes. So our new farmers looking for how to learn about branding, our older farmers looking about how to access new markets, et cetera. So I thought you could talk a little bit about why you got interested in agriculture, being a technology. Yeah, yeah. What did you learn that day? What were the themes that you left the room? What's the long-term takeaway on that program? Oh my gosh. I thought it was a great conference. It was huge, and topics were great. Good job planning it. And I really love the fact that you had the follow through where you asked people, what are you going to do after the conference? How are we going to move forward with all the things that we learned? And so prior to the ag conference, our director, Robbie, had met with Jimmy Nakatani, who is the director of ADCE. And he wanted to bring in more tech into ag. And so Robbie said, hack it on. Well, but the notion is that people go out into this business. We want them. We want to incentivize them to go out into this business. We need to find as many incentives as possible. And they find that it's hard work. And there's dirt under your nails. This is not what we left the plantations for. We don't want to do that kind of thing. We want to be a business. We want to use the best practices and best technology available. We want to have some time off to ourselves. We want to be a good, robust career. And so how do you do that? Well, clearly, you do that with technology. Leverage, it's all about leverage. So it's a great idea to put these two things together, because it does help both sides of the equation. Good idea. That was your idea, Cindy. Good work. So Robbie's idea, just to get the on record. So how did good get involved in all of this? I got involved with, well, we've been doing kind of hackathons and code challenges over the course of the last five, six years. And we've been pretty successful at bringing together the tech community. These are the coders, the developers, people who are sort of civically engaged and trying to look at ways that they could come up with some solutions for issues that might arise. And we just had completed the Hawaii annual code challenge, which I was on with you, Jay. And we started that in 2016, 2017. And it's a great environment to give the opportunity for departments in the government to make some pitches on the challenges that they face. So there's a lot of work that goes on behind the scenes to work with the different departments, try to understand what are some of the pitches that they might be able to do? And does it fit into a hackathon sort of framework? Because hackathons can be a month long in the case of the code challenge. But in the case of the agathon, which is the ag hackathon, we're calling it the agathon, it's really only a weekend. Well, there's a benefit in that. Because there's new territory in many ways. We have to identify what the challenges are that can be met with the technology. And one of the big challenges to me is to find out what those challenges are, to identify them. So one of the first places I started to look at was, what are some of the objectives that we've set for ourselves as a state? So if you look at the governor's website, there's an objective, double food production by 2020. Now, if you look at double food production, at least that's a place to have a conversation. So I go out and I start to talk to people. What does it mean to double food production? And then it starts to become clear that there's different definitions for what food is. It could run the gamut from eggs to beef to fresh produce. It could run that whole gamut. And then the next question I would ask is, well, how are we doing? And then the answer usually comes back was we don't really know because we don't have a baseline. So then the question becomes, why don't we have a baseline? Well, it's because we don't have the data. So that starts to lead you down a path to try to identify, what can we talk about as a result of maybe doing a pitch that could be worked on, that could help address some of these? Now, the hackathon, the agathon is not a silver bullet. It's not gonna solve all the problems. But if we can identify some key things and get people to maybe come up with some solutions, at least it's an innovative way of bringing kind of community into the picture rather than all the traditional folks sitting around and thinking about it. Well, it's not in a conversation. The juice is flowing. And know what Stephanie's next question is. She's gonna ask you for an example of technology that could help double food production. She's gonna ask you that now just to get the juices flowing. Oh, okay. What is that right now? I don't know. This is silver bullet. Okay, I'll give you one. So in the course of my conversations with a variety of people and I was sitting down with the folks over at the College of Tropical Egg and basically going through the same thought process. What are some of the challenges that you as an industry might face? Well, one of the things they brought up to me and they brought up several, but one that we wanna kind of focus in on is food waste. So if you look at food waste, there's all the food that makes it to the supermarket or to where you buy fresh produce. And usually those are very nice in appearance. They have the form, they have the freshness, they have the color, but there are so many produce that doesn't make it to the market. And that's considered food waste, but they can be used for things like, you could make tomato sauce out of the tomatoes that don't make it to the market. You can do a lot of different things. You can even create like feed for farm animals. So how does technology help you do that? Well, how do you identify what the food waste is? How can farmers use a tool that allows them to differentiate between what goes to the market and what gets identified as food waste and how can we build a marketplace for food waste? It strikes me that when you go through this kind of analysis, you're gonna watch the farmer.  You're gonna see every movie makes. You're gonna see where the waste is. It's not only in food waste, but in waste of time, waste of materials, waste of land, anything that's not efficient. It's like energy efficiency. You're gonna look for any sign of inefficiency and stamp it out. Another area would be the traceability of produce from the farm to the marketplace or to retail. How do you trace that? And right now, there isn't really a good way to do that. And I think technology can help to streamline that process. So that's another area that we might present as a challenge. This is gonna be interesting. So in this, as opposed to the code challenge, you don't have to build the code over the weekend, but you have to sort of make a false code kind of thing. Just generally, what is this program gonna do? What data are you gonna take and use? How are you gonna get it? What are you gonna do to process it? What kind of result comes out? So it's really a good beginning because we're gonna be able to solve some of these. What do you think about this, Cindy?  What does HTVC think about this kind of approach? What does it think about Bert? Do they like her? That kind of guy is he, anyway. Well, you're asking really tough questions for Cindy. You're pretty good on the spot. I know, I know. You don't like him being this way on the spot. He's run so many successful hackathons. And as HTVC as an economic development agency, it's great because we're hoping that out of these, even out of the concepts, that the teams get so excited about it and the farmers get so excited and they want to see things happen, to see these concepts come to life, that they're willing to put money into it. And so our hope is that these teams create businesses or they create products that just grow the economy. So that's what's in it for us.  No, you want to get the loan? You might use other names, but... You use Cindy's name. Yeah, please. And your name, Stephanie. Stephanie, we're about midway through the show and I thought it'd be appropriate for you to tell them about the break now. Okay, we're going to take a short break, but again, we have Bert, mom of Hawaii Open Data and Cindy Matsuki of HTDC or the Hawaii Technology Development Corporation and myself, Stephanie Mock and Jay Fadal of Think Tech Hawaii. We'll be right back after these short messages, but we'll talk more about options of the agricultural sector and technology sectors have to collaborate. Fabulous. Hi, I'm Pete McGinnis-Mark and every Monday at one o'clock, I present Think Tech Hawaii's research in Manoa where we bring together researchers from across the campus to describe a whole series of scientifically interesting topics of interest both to Hawaii and around the world. So hopefully you can join me one o'clock Monday afternoon for Think Tech Hawaii's research in Manoa. Hi guys, it's RB Kelly. I'm your host of Out of the Comfort Zone where I find cool people with cool solutions to problems that all of us face. Now the thing is, we're really cool and I only invite really cool people but the thing is I think you're kind of cool too so I think you should come and watch. That Thursdays at 11 a.m. here on OC 16 television with Think Tech Hawaii. I'm RB Kelly, host of Out of the Comfort Zone and I will see you next Thursday. Okay, we're back, I told you. Actually, Stephanie told you we'd be back and we're back. Okay, we got the second half to go now. Stephanie, can you describe what we're gonna talk about in the second half? Absolutely, so in the first half of our show we just introduced our guests and we got to know a little bit of the broad themes of technology and agriculture. All these issues that farmers face day to day in the field and then how can we utilize the skills and training that our blossoming tech industry has and how can we utilize them together? So I thought the second half of the show, we could talk more about when this agathon is, this ag hackathon if you will, how farmers can get involved. Because farmers, they have their heads down in the field, they're trying to run their businesses and it's incredibly time consuming. So to say, oh, come hang out with us for a weekend, they might need some convincing. So I wanna hear about how we can bring farmers into the mix and then I also want Cindy to talk a little bit more about HTTC's mission and any funding opportunities and how they encourage small business here in Hawaii. Yeah, this is kind of a challenge to set this up so you can actually bring the farmers in, get them out of the fields because they gotta take care of their plants and the earth and all those natural obligations they have to do farming anyway. So how do you bring them in and make it easy for them?  How do you do that? Well, the purpose of the hackathon is really to start to hear what some of the challenges are. And so we are reaching out to people like the Farm Bureau, the Department of Ag, the College of Tropical Ag and having them come in and sort of do those pitches. Then get you started identifying the issues. Through those organizations, they have networks and they are putting us in touch with some of the farmers that are already kind of leveraging some of the technology or are of like mine. And what we wanna do is we wanna find good examples of what might be already out there. So we wanna kind of find the champions in the community. And then what we wanna do is, as a result of the hackathon, actually have some ideas sourced from this. So as a result of bringing everybody together, having the weekend to spend together, coming up with some ideas and we'll have some judges and we'll have some prizes, we will look at some of those ideas that come out of this and how can we help further develop that beyond the hackathon? Suppose I'm a coding geek, okay? I don't know anything about agriculture. How are you gonna bring me down there? Cause I'm the guy that's gonna come up with stuff, right? Well, so the coders, the developers, I mean they are, I think they're all interested in a variety of different civic engagement opportunities, whether it's working on transportation or working on energy. This is just another vertical that I think the government- Is it for money or love? Well, initially the hackathon is for surprises. It's primary for love. But the difference that we're gonna implement is that they own the code after the code challenge or the hackathon and the- We speak into the camera too when you say that. Camera four. They own the code. They own the code. They keep the rights to their code. Now- On the record. As a result of the hackathon, if there is interest in their projects that perhaps some organization or some company wants to help move forward, maybe HTDC wants to provide some granting funds, they can then take it to the next level as a team, as a small business, as a company. That's pretty exciting for you because you can be the incubator kind of organization to take them to the next level. You hear a good idea. You think it may be commercializable? Wow. What do you do then? Definitely. Well, HTDC has several different funding grant opportunities. So for an opportunity like this, we would recommend either SBIR or that's the Small Business Innovation Research Grant where you look for topics that are kind of relevant to your solution. And if the agency, if the federal agency gives you funding for it, HTDC can match that up to 50% of your grant, which is a really- That's pretty good. That's a great grant. A great incentive, a great incentive. Yeah, and then the other thing that we offer small businesses is a manufacturing grant. It's an assistance grant for equipment, for equipment training, for- This is agricultural equipment. It's for manufacturing equipment. Okay, but manufacturing can be agriculture. Yeah, it can be value added production. Yeah, yeah, absolutely. And I do want to make one small pitch. We did introduce a bill last session to create a program where projects that come out of a code challenge or an agathon could potentially get some funding. So we're going to the ledge to see if they would help fund this program. The monies would reside in HTDC as a granting source and projects that come out of, whether it's the agathon or the code challenge or others could be something that comes out of Purple Maya, Purple Prize. They apply and if they qualify, they can get, but we're going to introduce that, reintroduce that in 2018. It didn't pass in 2017. It went all the way to conference and then there was a lot of confusion. Oh, so often that happens. Well, I hope they watch this show and get the idea. Of course. Yeah, how much money are you going to ask for? Not a lot. We're looking at maybe $150,000. And we're going to match that. We're going to be half a million at least. Well, I start from humble. Cindy, what do you think about a million? What do you think? What do you think? I'll be serious about this. This is important for the future of the state and people who like tech and like agriculture and who would stay here instead of leave. It's a good career. It's a fine life. This is Hawaii. Maybe we'll start at a million and we'll trim it down to five million. Okay, we're negotiating in reverse. Yeah. Yeah. So, you know, I like what you were saying about bringing, you know, bringing in like this new generation, these new leaders, younger leaders. And I thought Cindy was talking to us earlier about why she thinks technology is really important being brought into agriculture. Could you discuss that a little bit? Just bringing in a younger generation of farmers. I know when we were talking before the show you had mentioned that the average age of our farmers now is 60. Holy cow, 60. So, I mean, I would think at 60, especially doing all that hard labor, I would want to retire, right? Sure they are retiring. Yeah, and that too. And with the governor's goal of being food sustainable soon, I think tech is a good way to make ag sexier and make it easier and more palatable, I guess, to a younger generation. Like if they can apply tech and do efficient farming. I think that would be more interesting for a new generation of farmers. Well, you know, so much of this is follow up, right?  And so, Stephanie, what can you do as the real host of the Food Farm series, you know, to keep it going, to keep the conversation going, right? To follow up, follow through, make it happen. What can you do? Yeah, absolutely. So part of that ag conference that Cindy was talking about is we created these small commitment groups. So people would sign up on their email or phone or whatever to be part of conference calls and meetings, you know, quarterly or every so often, just to see what's going on in the technology and agricultural fields and kind of see what they can move forward. So our last call, we had about six people on it and it was a mix of tech and, you know, nonprofit, public, private, partnerships. And so I think continuing that conversation on Think Tech Hawaii, but also those networks you were talking about utilizing, you were talking about Farm Bureau, you were talking about going to farmers in the fields actually, because, you know, as much as advocacy or organizations can, you know, voice opinions, ultimately it's the farmers who are trying to help. So by bringing more farmers on the show and hearing them and maybe I could pass along any issues they have to you guys and saying, hey, I'm saying this common theme, what can your organizations do to possibly help this along and, you know, find a solution to the issue? Yeah. You know, one of the things that always interests me is that the restaurants, and they are an important element to this whole discussion. Absolutely. The restaurants need to have a reliable source. You can't say, well, I have it this week but I'm not gonna have it that week.  So you have to make sure they do. And this technology can play a big role in that. The other thing can play, and to make sure that it's there for them to connect them up. And one of the things you guys were talking about came out of the August conference was this, I guess it's a website which connects up the buyers and the sellers. Oh yeah, FarmLink. Yeah, to me that's really important. Yeah, we've had it. Can you talk about the status of that? Well, I didn't create or manage FarmLink so forgive me if any details are slightly off but Rob Bereka, a graduate of the GoFarm program started FarmLink because he was seeing all these new farmers getting trained and having this produce but not really knowing or having the connections to find these new markets. So he's an old tech guy or young tech guy, excuse me, young tech guy who was like, why don't I just marry the two? And so he's now a farmer with CounterCulture. Really? Yeah, he owns and manages CounterCulture Firmance and then he also has FarmLink which Hunter manages but so they were featured at the ad conference to kind of show you don't have to go to these wholesale produce organizations. You can just say, hey, I have 10 pounds of tomatoes. I'm trying to like unload. Does anyone want them for tomato sauce? So they're trying to do it on a smaller scale so these new farmers and small farmers can utilize new markets. Yeah, and it's interesting that you're bringing Rob up because Rob was brought to my attention and he has been collecting a lot of data on his network of farmers that contribute to FarmLink. And what he would like to see happen is there's some expertise in town that could help analyze that data. Can we help visualize the data? Can we bring some storytelling around the data that he's collected? He's collected a lot of data but he wants to get some help in seeing if there's a story or a trend inside of that data. And that could be another challenge that we present at the Agathon. I have all this raw data. What's the story? What does it tell me? What does it tell me? What is that? Well, and you can take that analysis and go further and actually create a market. You can create a market. You can buy futures. Restaurants can buy futures. And say this farm is able to generate so much product and we know that because we have data, right? And so we're gonna buy the possibility of the next crop. We're gonna be in a long-term relationship with this farm, even a bankable one. Oh, wow. Oh, if I were HDDC, I'd be so excited about this. Yeah. I wanted to mention just as far as the follow-on for the concepts, I think part of our awards package is mentoring to teams that do wanna continue on with their solution. Well, you guys have to follow through on this. You have to make it happen. So, Jay, I wanna tell you, kickoff is on January 6th, which is coming up in less than a month. We're gonna do it over at the Pro City Urban Garden. Okay. And then we're gonna do the actual hackathon on the 13th and 14th of January over at Impact Hub. So we will be putting out the marketing word on it. If anybody's interested, they can go to agathon.eventbrite.com. Outstanding. And you have to reach the technology guys, wherever they are and whether they have farm experience or not is a great opportunity. It's a local opportunity. And it's something that Hawaii could excel at lest we forget. This kind of technology is not only useful for the farmers in our state. It could be exported. The X word. What? X word. Okay, Stephanie, we're about out of time. It's time for you to summarize what we've covered here today. Sorry about that. And put it forward to our visitors. Absolutely. So today we were joined in the studio with Jay, obviously a close friend of the show, but also new friends of Food and Farmers series, Cindy Matsuki of HTDC and Bert Blum of Hawaii Open Data. I wanna thank them for coming onto the show today. It was kind of last minute, but I think they've shown that they are experts in talking about their fields and talking about how technology and agriculture can work together here in Hawaii and also maybe the world. So Hawaii can become this hub of agricultural technology and agriculture in general for the Pacific and maybe even the world. So again, I'd like to thank our guests. Next time we will have a new host joining us for Hawaii Food and Farmers. Her name is Pumai Weigert. I wanted to extend warm welcome to her. She was on our show last time. And so until next time, goodbye.