Today we're here for the for a meeting of the Waterbury Select Board on Monday, January 9th 2023 at the Edward Steele community room for the purpose of conducting business for the Select Board The first order of business is to approve the agenda. Are there any amendments to the agenda? Yes Okay under select board items and I have a couple other Changes the Waterbury Rotary folks Requested a movement of they're not going to be meeting with us today. They'll be meeting with us on the 23rd and I just received tonight a 2022 equalization Study results from the Vermont Department of Taxes and it'll probably be just a five minute item So if we could add that in this in the select board items D&E Any other changes? They're being done. I Asked all move that we have. Yep. Thank you. We have a motion. Do we have a second? We have a motion and we have a second to approve any further discussion If not all in favor say aye. Aye. Aye. Any opposed any abstentions motion passes Next item is the Consent agenda item, which would be the minutes of the January 3rd 2023rd meeting and the certificate of highway miles which requires a signature It's just a yearly thing that comes before us every year I'll move to approve the consent agenda Thank you. Do we have a second? Yeah, I'll second it and the one note Sorry for the minutes that I just saw is that the designated downtown applies to the whole town not just our W Which is a one word fix. I think it's fine. I just wanted to say Okay, thank you. We have a motion second any further discussion on the Consent agenda other than we'll probably all sign If not all in favor say aye. Aye. Any opposed any abstentions motion carries Now we're at the point of the agenda where we welcome any of the public just to feel free to come I can't hear anything. I'm sorry to interrupt a Okay, now, I guess we got our mute fixed now We're at the point of our discussion where we invite the public either on Zoom or in person if they have anything that are not related to any Agenda items if anyone wishes to speak please raise your hand or Anything in zoom Yeah, actually I put it down, but then I put it back up So just wanted to let you guys know that I probably will be sending An email around this week They're basically long story short has been some information that's come back from the hunger ravines case As far as the courts and at the same point we've discovered a number of significant artifacts that Had not occurred in that Court case so since then we've discovered some potentially neolithic Finds pretty amazing stuff that I'll share in detail, but I just wanted to make you aware of that here So hope you're all well. Hope you had good holidays and let's have a great new year. Yeah Thanks Is there anyone else in the public that wishes to say anything if not we'll move on to select board items First item put passing over the Waterbury Rotary is the senior citizen Maureen white and Justin and black man. Do you want to come forward? It's always good seeing Justin. He's wearing always wearing his shorts Prepared for the weather always So I'm Justin black man, I'm chair of the senior center and with me is So if we may first of all Can I thank you for the invite to come along this evening? So I think important is a little note that in the last year since our last Presentation here We've taken on board the suggestion at that time that we undertake a full financial audit At the time we were concerned at the possibilities of a high cost of a full audit, but Maureen has managed to get a very good price on getting that done the audit was fully undertaken and Hi, Martz. No discrepancies. No changes. We're just we're in good shape. No, you're findings at all findings It's a full financial audit, too. So perfect Congratulations So Most people know that meals on wheels is the biggest program we undertake a Hot meal prepared five days a week and delivered by our by our volunteer drivers and On a Friday That that delivery may also include two extra frozen meals to get people through the weekend So if I may I'd like to run through a few numbers Important for for what we do. So first off the start off last year's numbers the number of meals delivered 18,423 And I think very important to point out that every single one of those Deliveries includes somebody at the door in person I think that's ever such an important thing these days to remember So looking at probably the biggest number of them all is our budget for our entire costs in the in the year moving forward that's 2014 and 257 dollars and that that's absolutely everything. That's our rent our heat our light Paying our employees and all of our food costs baked into that cost. Yes 214 thousand 257 you don't have a written report for us on financials I said the the budget the fiscal 23 budget and then he wanted the budget versus actuals for fiscal We'll make sure make sure first thing tomorrow morning. We've got copies of all of that for you okay So if we take our total number of meals and our total cost We could consider that as a cost per meal of $11.63 So many people will assume that meals on wheels is paid for from the government federal government doing that well Not really the reality is the older Americans act does it does funnel some money? Through the chain to us and that that contributes three dollars and 80 cents Towards each of those meals and that comes to us from the CVC away as the central Vermont Council on aging Who funnel us that money and also give a little bit of assistance to us? We also have a lot of report writing we have to do in return for that They also help us with a little bit of menu design making sure it's a completely balanced menu that we are providing to the seniors So if we do our math that means we have a shortfall of seven dollars 83 cents Per meal that we are needing to cover somehow So the senior center themselves In a combination of donations that come in and our annual appeal letter as well We anticipate and hope being able to get $61,000 in from that. That's how it appears on our budget for this year So the leftover chunk from that is $57,000 and that's what we end up asking our towns From Waterbury and the surrounding towns who we serve that is the chunk that we end up asking our towns for so If we look at Waterbury itself Based on last year's numbers Just Waterbury is a delivery number of fourteen thousand two hundred fifty nine meals Each of those included as we mentioned with an informal wellness check making sure Customers are doing well and it's surprising how many times there is feedback little things we can do or Little suggestions we can help with to get help for help for sometimes Small but increasingly larger questions that come back as well So of those deliveries 67% of the deliveries made to the Waterbury area And Then another couple of numbers for you so our own costs for food for instance are up by 6% We keep very very close tabs on our food costs Our chef manager Donna does great job in taking advantage of What happens to be seasonal what happens to be available right now and any donations that come in but still even with that We are seeing a 6% increase in our costs there The other thing we know is that over the last year We have a 13% increase in the number of deliveries we are making We can't be exactly sure why that why that increase we would hope that some of it is because We are being good in other ways and the community is Using the resource to help our seniors stay in their homes That's that's obviously a quite a big chunk of what we would like to be doing here Keep the seniors in their homes the places they they want to be There also might be a chunk of Seniors struggling on the pure financial end of things and If you can get some of your meals from meals on wheels It augments somewhat what you might have to be paying at the store for your own groceries So there may be some of those two going on. We really don't know exactly which is which so overall that means We will be requesting a 20% increase Of what we will be asking from the town And that would make that total ask amount from the town to $39,000 I'd like to just assure everybody that every penny is used very wisely There is really nothing nothing wasted everything is used ingredient wise money wise pennies wise There really is no wastage going on amongst that With that that's the end of my numbers there Like to ask other any questions I Do have a few questions right off I assume your cost of meal of 1163 per meal That includes your staff to prepare the drivers, you know what you pay them All volunteer okay, I didn't know if you pay them like a mile That's just everything in our budget The you know the meal cost and also the cost of the containers that the meals go out That's gone up like a lot this year too. We got a note from our vendor said that Depending on their their which item their prices were going up from five to 14 percent So that's a six percent increase is re you know you look at the national news They're talking about foods up like 14 percent so six percent when I looked our food costs went up six percent But the national average at that time was like 10.6 right like doesn't said Donna does an incredible job We get we get donations from community harvest, you know They go out and clean the fields and bring things back So we have all these misshapen vegetables that the volunteers after We don't waste anything we've got so much stuff in the freezer that she will use all year long And we do get some donations from the food bank That's whatever and they're even like local people have too much produce in their gardens. They'll bring us some of that If we know who it is a lot of it comes from somebody who was one of our volunteers So if we know who it is we know where it's coming from Especially if it's something that's going to be cooked, you know, we're not going to serve raw food We don't know where it came from Don is just incredible with what she does for food and you know leftovers and And I think our budgets pretty tight They have you know one good thing that came out of the audit to is that we have really good Internal processes for a small organization So there's no waste I know where every penny is and the other thing about the audit is we did the full audit this year We're going to do a full audit every three years who was recommended in between we're going to a CPA review Which is not the full audit that somebody's looking at our books the same firm so that because we're a small organization Basically it so having somebody look at it is really important to make sure everything ties down. There's just not the testing So it's a little bit it's less money Just the last time you were here discussed the Potential of using some ARPA funding to Re-equip your kitchen. Is that still a live request as well? It's it's still live with us But it's actually really difficult the first first few attempts to have companies Come in and come and talk to us hasn't hasn't been really strong If anyone's got suggestions of the right right people to talk to To get quotations like that we were all is to just find a contractor Yeah, that's right. Yeah, and plus we don't have a director right now. We haven't had a director for about a year We've had a couple as far as finding somebody that might be able to reputable that might be a little Awesome, put something forward before you and any ideas Ron Gailos out of Rotary each probably no it's possible Reaching out to a couple of people. I know in the restaurant business have Already suggested names not to not to go and talk to But I'm struggling with the names of people to actually go and talk to I'm just doing paperwork for doing a grant is difficult like I said We don't have a director and the board's doing all the work, but there's only so much we can do We're all volunteers, so it's it's a tough thing to go after that much of a grant. I mean we'll try Building a whole new facility for head of the wood Bank building over here, and I don't know if you're familiar with them, but I could put you in touch with them He's the CEO Head of the wood and one of our one of our board members is is very it's familiar with air and Just not that he would necessarily be the person, but he knows a lot We'll try that avenue as well. Yeah That's still the plan at the moment to get some some better numbers more accurate for you, so you said that The agency of aging only supplies you with about 25% of your budget With the inflation rate being what it is and our beloved government creating most of it I'm surprised that they have it up the ante on The percentage that you guys are one would hope It's it's what that is we know that that's in place for this year And the CDC way to at the beginning of the year We we put in a request for the number of meals We think we're going to and we have a contract with CVC way at the beginning of the year So we know what our checks are and this year I Did a lot of analysis on trends where I thought it was going and I was kind of guessing over 19,000 meals at least and They came back with 18,000 they they just gave it three percent rate increase I don't know why so that's what we have and they they can pay the overage if we go over our contract at about But they don't have to so Tough situation so we could go over our contract that amount and only get 380 a meal And then we don't get even 380 if you do the math the other way That's just it is what it is. So there's a potential for being left in the hole If the program is really successful and delivers loads and loads of extra meals We we could get left in the hole a little bit, but we'll see So you're projecting to serve 19,000 I when I looked at the numbers the numbers have gone up significantly in the last three months like not just water Everywhere so when I looked at the numbers and kind of look at the trends I was thinking like 19,500 like another thousand meals for the year. I Don't know you never know when people it seems like like Justin said people are Staying on the program longer whether they're in their house longer whether you know because usually it's like people drop off and new People come on it kind of you know flows, but it seems to be gradually increasing, which is great For whatever the reason baby boom We're all getting old age heading in your direction and some of it just pure medically we're doing better at keeping our seniors going and in their houses for longer as well and It every bit we can do to keep them in the houses is proven to be Actually cheaper for the whole community in the long run So you speak any family support? in Helping and in helping of those seniors It's a complete mixture There are some people who say oh I'm all right at the weekend I have my family come in and visit me then, but they don't see anyone during the week for example But it's it's all different have two questions on the numbers that you gave They're all for the just for the meals on wheels program not because you have some other programs so the meals on wheels is Dramatically the the number one the others are very very small for instance other things we we might do Don't really have a cost if any so for instance playing dominoes Couple of days a week no real cost Putting a movie on Every now and again doesn't really have have too much of an impact on that so just Trying to bake everything into this per meal cost kind of a way of just showing the the size of the Of the challenge really just to clarify to the 18,000 423 includes congregate meals So we're open five days a week that people can come in and have a meal. I've been there. They're good Food You don't have to we invite everyone Come on down and it could be every day of the week Wednesday's is most popular Tends to have the wins the road the roast dinner of some kind Come on down Sample the menu, right? We're not allowed to charge. Yeah, but we have this donation. There's a donation How from the 1163 how does that compare to other Locally oriented meals on wheel sites. Are you it's it's hard to I don't have their financials So I don't you don't talk to other way. Yeah, the meal cost. Well, I do join a group of CVC way It's different meal sites around depending on how they You know book their items and you know whether they have you know, I know some sites have paid drivers They have more kitchen staff and larger staff. I mean, it's just it's really hard to compare. So It's also some sites Won't won't be delivering a kind of home home cooked hot meals. Some of them are very much a carton of juice Packet of crackers. Well, I do know it's a very mixed across the board some sites. Well age well, which is in Chinden County, which is their provider They don't prepare their own meals. They're not hungry meals. They buy up on the vendor So ours are as to good as lumpy mashed potatoes kind of home cooked meals. So They're good. I don't know about the delivery one with the ones on site. It's the same food. It's very good Yeah, it's the same food. See we have an incredible shaft. She's got cook. So it sounds like the bulk of your Request is is about eight thousand bucks. It's sixty five hundred more. So it went from thirty two five up to thirty nine Which is exactly twenty percent So I can send you these reports just quickly fiscal twenty two according to budget. We ended up the year with about About a thousand dollar surplus, which is a good place to be, you know But it's it's kind of like our because we didn't have a director our costs were way down and our revenues were down because the donating Donations were much lower than they were the year before so we ended up in a good place But because you know, we had you know lower personnel cost and then we also had you know lower donations coming in So trying to you know, we've just done our annual appeal. We took a different approach to it It's it's coming going well. We just sent another appeal out to local businesses and asked for you know Donations that way. So we feel like we're trying different things and trying to get some money coming in Hiring a director We're gonna start the process again We had two candidates last year both fell through for very different reasons It's tough hiring What do you what are you offering to a candidate for? We kind of pull on the like how wonderful it is to must have a range or something like that We do we've kind of gone back and forth. I don't know if I should speak to it in a public meeting I don't know it's Uh Our full our full package is difficult, so We're not able to offer a 401k and things like that that you would hope if you were top-class Candidate planning to relocate for example, so we're not able to do that It means we are restricted somewhat somewhat in the type of candidate. I would put it this way as as Very detailed and tight budget that you operate on I would say that Their package would Probably have to be that of as reasonable as possible, right? Yeah Because you just you don't have Anything yeah, it's almost someone does a second job in a family or somebody who's recently retired, right? Well, it's amazing to me RW Karen Nevin was just in here the other day talking about RW and they Operate under the same kind of restraints, you know that very budget everything is very Kept on top of the detail and to see you doing is that as well it It tears at my heart because we have Institutions in this country that throw good money after bad constantly And probably a lot less important type issues than what you two are are dealing with and My thanks and my heart goes out to you for for your efforts, and I appreciate it. I've bought it And I'll see what I can do to help you out with this kitchen request and Maybe some of the things Yeah, thank you If you could if you send us financials if you could send us a copy of the audit report That'd be really helpful And I think you're being really smart by having one audit and then like the interim check-ins because I think for your size Organization I think an audit is important every few years Just in this day of an age of you know embezzlement and stuff like that Do you want to see everything above board and it's kind of you know auditors? I've been doing this kind of work my whole career, and I know things are fine But yeah, somebody else to look I used to work with audits all the time and they're necessary evils But to have somebody else look at it and it's a second set of eyes Any of us could be in this position at some point needed services So it's it you know some of us are could be just as stones are away from it It's a it's a fact of life, you know getting older and having to deal with things that None of us are accustomed to it or that they currently at the age that we are at you know, it's Try to get fresh direct or any of these other home delivery services You look at what the costs of them are it's just I know that from experience with my my my step mom, you know, they're incredibly expensive You know Thank you for what you guys do I'm just wondering so last year when we put a request in part of it went in your budget and part of it went in the special article Right, just like how do you decide what goes how much because last year? It was 20,000 that we were in the special article and it was like head and shoulders about everybody else And I was so worried that wasn't going to pass by the voters and they did they're they're wonderful How do you decide what was in your budget and what goes in the Special articles there. I think it's the will of you know one inch transparency. I think fairly Sympathetic to a senior center and what their budget is going to be but I think it's being transparent because again People look through spreadsheets on line items And you know, it's very easy to kind of bury those things and especially I think we went based upon Historical records what what the town was supporting and then it was just something that was a reaffirmation that the taxpayers you know, I Don't think we've we rarely ever see any of the special articles ever go down, right, you know I worried a lot because there's 20,000 everybody else Exactly and I really sweat that one out Was their history because I have the same question I have my little arrows going sideways 25 in the budget 20 in the article and it looks like Tom has already proposed a 20% increase on the So it's been about you the town's been giving us around 30 for the longest time in two years ago We you went up to gun extra 2,500 and then last year there was no change So it has great, but I'm saying that split of what the split of what's in the budget versus article Because I feel like I've heard this to the question of focusing like again not saying maybe all of it is in the budget but That line of what the divide is and why It's just one of the You know a few of them on profits gets to have fun. It gets a lot and Yeah, there was a year with I think a $2500 increase and there's been a few of those So I think at some point the select were just decided to put it to the voters rather than embed it Understand the transparency is great too. I think one year some years back there was a 20,000 increase I think that's that's how it became an article. There was a big increase one year All right Five six seven years ago somewhere in that time frame. I think that is because I think it was like 10,000 So the question is you have the same question from if you for 2023 if it's a $39,000 Request in total how much you want it if any do you want to bet in the budget and how much of it may Do you want to put in a question? And actually, I think it's going to benefit you now that we're going back to in person town meetings because People could speak to things as to what the fact like you guys could speak to the value of your program Before you know the last couple of years. It was like it was a lot easier to You know put the little marker on no, you know, no one knows that you do that It's like, you know, you don't hear too many no's out and out in the old days But you know that you know when people usually hear someone's story and what you're doing why you're asking for additional funds They usually fairly sympathetic unless it doesn't make sense and that's going to be a Possibility this year. Yes. Okay. Yeah, we're having a full in-person town meeting like like it's always been Until we get something that someone wants to change to go to all Australian ballot My preference, I think it's great that we need you can follow that. That's great. Okay. Yeah, I Would say to be clear. I think Mike is speaking for the board, but I would say I don't think we've actually had that discussion Though I think our sense is that we all agree with what Mike just said by just to state but in general though the items that are on the article are Independent nonprofits that are requesting funds from the town. That's not Usual talent expenses. It's not like little budgets like so much for a you know, greater or something like that Everybody else was asking for it just I really was afraid people were gonna say no, but you have had I think the largest segment of that Number of years and the town has generally approved it Once it's not just a border where the most houses once articles are approved for a few years the tendency is just put them in the budget The voters have their say for several years. So at a certain point they're just embedded That may that seems to make sense.  So the grade well They could serve their lunch and I assume you're asking for the same increase from the other towns as well Because of different delivery numbers in different towns, so it varies a little bit You know food cost went off the deliveries went down You know sometimes we have asked for Tom on the ARPA request, when would we need to see that in order to put it in the 2000 budget 2023 budget 40 days before town meeting day Not much time So, I mean, we're going to be spending some money next year as well, but just FYI Yeah, I guess my question to that point is Our ARPA funds eligible for this sort of thing Yeah, we did that whole process should we declare to revenue loss? But this is a special article. How does that fall under? No, the kitchen would be an offer request, but I don't think they're not their fund They're based funding. I thought Roger it. No, I was talking about the kitchen Right Any other questions for So there's also a special article $4,000 for RSVP is that also you Yeah Senior volunteers they finally find our volunteers, but they are actually they work through cbc way Other than the fact that they find that's more to help people in businesses and stuff like that And they also do when we do have volunteers they will run the background checks horse I could send the reports You can send it to me if you'd like. I'll circulate. Okay, I'll do that. I made a note to get them from the bill So I can send it to me first. Okay. I'm happy to send it to you. I'll be a rush now Yeah, when are when are reports from all the nonprofits do it's that dates coming in? Okay So by the reports, do you mean the letter that goes in that little booklet? Yeah We got to work on it. Do you need them? You need them now? Okay Thank you any other questions. All right, thank you for coming in. Thank you. Thank you Give a thanks to all the volunteers to their yes All the volunteers drivers especially not everyone not only for food. It's it's just the check-ins for people I think is really critical Okay, we'll move on to the next item the mad river resource management Alliance John Mr. Recycling Malter Come on down I Was too busy showing you my old agendas that I printed the meetings on because I was really proud of myself Thank you And I think it's great that the senior center is using Not quite perfect fruit and vegetables in their Choices for you know keeping stuff out of the composting world and using it for its intended Purpose which is something that's done a lot in Europe, but it's just barely Getting acceptability in the United States Well once again, it's a pleasure to come here and talk trash with you guys Alec Tuscany's the waterbury representative and he's here to throw rocks at me if I say anything wrong I just wanted to give you a brief update on what we're up to and the answer any questions hopefully and You know go from there and as always our biggest and best bang for our buck with our communities is our household hazardous waste collections and 2020 with COVID in 2021 with contract problems with getting personnel We were only able to hold one event this past year. We held two events and there was pent up demand and We had four hundred and twenty four households that participated in this past year's collections and Generated over 12 tons of stuff that goes bump in the night Folks basements and garages and barns So we were pretty happy with that even though it cost us over $54,000 for those two events and the challenge has been and continues is that there is a consolidation of Contractors with the expertise and staff for doing this The company that we used Four years five years ago Was called clean ventures? clean ventures through mergers and acquisitions became part of Republic waste This past year us ecology, which is the one we're using now Was merged with? Republic waste so now we have met the enemy and he is us. We now have another fewer Waste collection companies processing companies to deal with but at the same time You know they're they've expanded their their reach so to speak with having you know more more resources, but less Presidents right here on the ground And we are finding that many of the Contractors or many of the districts alliances and individual towns are drawing on the same folks So there's major conflict as far as dates for holding these events and Last year we held our spring collection on April 2nd My fingers were crossed that we weren't going to have a snow day For our hazardous waste and our fall event was on August 20th I Had to paint a couple of leaves to make it look like fall This year we're going to be able to hold our spring event on May 13th Which is pretty much the second Saturday in May, which is where we had historically been and our full event will be October 13th, which will be the second Saturday in October We used to hold the fall when the first Saturday in October, but I'm happy with being able to just Kind of harmonize our our schedules a little bit better Food scraps composting Being friends with the Bears We have been holding Workshops on composting Old one in Waterbury year and one down in Waitsfield at the Unisville office there gets folks some of the basic information and we do help to Get people thinking about composting and diverting waste as well as we sell some of the compost bins that Put them into Into their backyards. I think the most important thing that I find that I do is I give people permission To do something that maybe is a little outside of their comfort zone and taking their waste That they've historically been throwing out and doing something to create something that's got value And when they do it and they're successful, it's like a ergo moment It's really kind of exciting and you know It's not normal that you would get somebody to walk up to you in a supermarket and say You've taught me how to compost and it worked and it's really kind of neat that it does and it is So yeah, and I think we've been pretty successful This will be our 26th year of selling compost bins This past year we sold 29 of the bins and three green cones the green cones are for the meats the greases the fish stuff, you know things that you get out there in the lake and oils that you wouldn't want to put in with your own Composting because of the creator of all kinds of critter problems Green-up day, which is the first Saturday in May Historically has been our big tire collection Working both at the public works garage Rodney's transfer station here in waterbury and the earth-wise transfer station in Waitesfield and We've gotten this year. We had 236 Green-up tires that folks brought, you know the ones that bring them in and have plastic bags over them I say I don't really think this is a green up tire But we've had some people try that But for the most part, it's really just been the the community effort to green up and I Always say, you know, we're going to go with People if they made the effort we'll give it to them at no charge And we're charging five dollars a tire for most tires So it's not it's less than the normal rate and it gives people an opportunity To bring them in and the challenge is that I Need ten tons of tires to reach a point where I can get a reduced price From the vendor that we're using through the Northeast resource recovery Association and as Justin mentioned things keep going up and Costs keep going up and that's Just one of those challenges that we're seeing in this as well as everything else Textiles, I think this is one of the more exciting areas that we've gotten into in the last year 2021 was our first half year that we did it and Two years ago we got six tons of stuff This was anything that was was Not wet and didn't smell was acceptable and this year we collected 24 plus tons of Textiles from earth wise and Rodney's and Literally have had the bins chocolate block full Two weeks before it was the anticipated that stuff was going to need to be picked up and the company is called help see and They're out of primarily white planes, but they've got an operation down in more Massachusetts And it's really been an additional tool for us to Divert stuff from the landfill It goes in the river There's a couple of things one it goes to Thrift shops they they break down everything everything comes in bags. They have large warehouses They take and take them out of the bags. They separate the good stuff the stuff that is not Suitable for sale, but still is good Some of that gets sent to assist organizations Overseas stuff that is torn Or stained and just has no redeeming value winds up going into making rags and Just being broken down that way it's textiles So that's going on No, actually Kathy's used this use the service to it's it's something that I think is beneficial to win-win and when if The the Salvation Army isn't available. She can bring stuff over there, too But I don't think she's ever going to need to have a Issue with all the bags that I see in front of Done well with it. Yes, and it's really helpful. She was our first recycler here in Waterbury without a doubt With our With our tires We had a total of 10.26 tons that were collected Over over this past year. So once again, I am continue to be pleased with our participation on on that e-waste the computers printers TVs monitors and Peripherals the things that you would think that over the past 20 years or so 15 years People would have processed already and gotten out of their Closets and you know said yeah, I think there's got to be a use for these five inch floppy disk Monitors. I'm sure I can use it someplace We still got 17 tons of stuff this year over at the state surplus property and the earth-wise facility So it's less than we had last year last year. We had about 27 tons But there's still a lot of stuff and the stuff is getting taken by good point Recycling over in the Middlebury and it is being de-manufactured. They're breaking it down and Making new components and as you work it will at some some of them are being sold. That's regular computer so It's it's the use it up. We're it out make it do or do without Concept being done very well So those are the the major initiatives our solid waste Website, it's mad river rma.org has been run by my webmaster Who informed me last year that she was moving home? Which wouldn't have been a problem except Thomas Finland and She said I'll be able to take care of everything and the first year it was fine, but now they're building a house and So I've learned how to do some web design stuff and so far. I haven't blown up Cleveland so far So that's got a lot of information on it as far as what's out there what our newsletters have to say Information for the general public on Trash and other things of that nature recycling composting listening to the events that we have and Then let's see what else is going on here. I think those are the main oh grow compost. Yeah grow compost was I I Thought that was going really well. They it was the the transportation arm was bought by Kasella and They said we're going to try and establish facility right there in Moortown and we'll give free food scrap disposal at the facility and And It was they had a big event in the beginning and August I think but then it became very evident to them that the Size of the site was just not suitable for the requirements on Monitoring and the cost associated and they said this isn't going to work And they shut it down effectively December 1st, but They've they accepted food scraps right up until then from the folks in town at no charge and now those food scraps can go to Rodney's earth-wise any of the The the haulers that are operating we've got compost collectors. We've got regular curbside Haulers that can all take those food scraps for a fee and That's what's going on then the marketing of Compost bins Which make a lovely holiday gift or if you didn't get one for the holiday. They're still available So those are the those are the main things that we've done over the past year, I think it was about 237 tons of food scraps that were collected this year in the five Alliance communities So that's a kind of a number to keep in mind We have the the budget and the other important thing is the election or nomination or Reupping of the representative to our communities so that we move forward To go into the budget first, so I like to save the representative for last Basically as with a lot of things we are running a deficit, but we're running a deficit That I think we're covering Because we only held the one hazardous waste collection the last two years so that we do have the resources available to cover Where we're short in terms of Revenue But at the same time looking forward We are going to stay with the seven dollar per capita that we've held for the last Three years But I'm concerned that we may need to revisit that next year in terms of Trying to stay at a Edit at a non-deficit and that's That's just the reality of where we are. In fact our our Expenses are actually down from what we had the year before but it's It's still going to be a bit of a challenge and I think we got it. We got to look at these costs and then the biggest cost is the hazardous waste and We're working on that as best we can my My assessment is that We're we're We're getting a little bit more because we're having the two events this year, so we'll have the revenue from the state for the Hazardous waste collections, which does only cover $12,000 not the 54,000, but it's a piece of our revenue picture So Basically Besides that my time is included here. I've got about a 4.5% raise in here this year. She hasn't been for a couple of years so That's the other the other piece of Information that's in here If there's no no benefits with my my program as far as Retirement help whatever but I'm a baby boomer, so I don't need that stuff. I got a senior center that I can go to So basically what I'm what I'm asking for it is our $7 per capital which is what we have had to continue that and then the Reappointment of Alec who has done a great job has really been helpful in advice and volunteering and Volunteering so much more important than advice But not He's really been a helpful addition to our group.  In the board do you need a vote from us to reappoint Alec this evening? Yeah, both the capital and the appointment Yes Why a couple of questions about dollar amount stuff. Sure. How does your? Tire collection money compared to like wheels for warmth. What are they doing? Wheels from I know they sell some stuff Right, we don't sell and well. I shouldn't say we don't sell any we allow people to come and Take and pick. No. Yeah to pick because reuse is the best form of recycling but the challenge is wheels for warmth they have a AOT inspector who is checking both the age of the sidewall of the tire Which if is I recall if it's more than eight years old this year at 2014 Yeah, we're doing that. Yeah, you can't use them. Oh, you're not supposed to because of the integrity of the the rubber and also you need to check the the sidewalls which There could be a puncture or something. That's not easily seen I Cousselots has taken all those tires and they're using them for tire-derived fuel, which is what Many of our tires are either Tire-derived fuel up at a paper mill in Maine or they're used for a civil engineering Applications, you know used in playgrounds and stuff like that And the second question I have which is kind of noticeable me you look at the towns. How come Duxbury is not in the alliance Do we turn off their TV? Duxbury was in the alliance. I thought they were one. Yes, they were they chose to leave And I told them then that it was a big mistake and I tell them now It's a big mistake especially when they have their citizens come to our hazardous waste collections Right, and I tell them that they're going to have to pay an additional amount because they're no long They're not in the alliance reasonable and it's just very frustrating for them And it's frustrating for me because people with number one Duxbury has the same zip code as the alliance at Waterbury right more town So they're getting the same postcard we send a postcard to every resident in the alliance because I think it's important to give everybody that opportunity to Come and participate It is such a disappointment when they decided and they decided back in about 2008 that it would be We have a per capita because we cannot issue a surcharge. We are on an interlocal agreement Instead of a union district, which is a municipal entity. So we cannot do eminent domain issue taxes or There's one other one anyway So any money that we raise is either me getting grants or getting the per capita or Individuals paying in like on our hazardous waste collections if people bring More than the set amount that we get a large amount. They then they then pay Right now. It's five dollars a unit for that additional but like and and the beauty is that With product stewardship, and let me just quickly do this because I almost forgot the product stewardship We've been able to get things like architectural paints oil and latex paint out of the Costing us waste stream now. It's being taken care of by the paint manufacturers we have the same kind of thing with the e-waste the The the computer folks are taking care of that the primary batteries the same way thermostats the same in the same way We are working right now with the Vermont Product Stewardship Council and the Product Stewardship Institute in Boston working with the legislature on changing some of the extended producer responsibility laws to include Some of the hazardous waste that is coming to our collections So that the industry is paying for these instead of the municipalities and the individuals and so that the you know the cradle-to-cradle instead of cradle-to-grave and we pay for the grave Can be accomplished So that's the part on that and and this year we stand a better chance. It's it passed the house But we missed it by any amended and that the end of the year It was just too many things going on when it went over to the Senate But we've been talking to some of the folks in the Senate already About this and we're hopeful that we're gonna If if act 250 and a few other things don't bog everything down that will be successful at getting that to occur and we'll get a get a bill that by maybe 2025 Get stuff taken out of our financial responsibility That's the part that I'm hopeful on And that's where you know, I'd love to be able to say oh, by the way, we're gonna reduce our per capita I mean, that's probably an American and black But I I do believe that you know and if we work together we can't accomplish that Well, it's not the worst thing in the world Thanks, John. Okay. You're welcome Sure, I'm hearing comments about Coventry's or to sell us generating plants starting to suffer due to the lack of methane production perhaps because of the lack of food scraps or any truth to that and Coventry What's next after Coventry, you know, what's what's the life expectancy of Coventry and then what's next and I think Coventry right now has Well, I think they're permitted right now for 10 or 11 more years based on current Capacity but the not in my backyard folks are such that the the landfill over in Lebanon, New Hampshire that a lot of the Connecticut River Valley towns on both sides were going to Are having a harder time getting into Lebanon landfill now So there may be more Diversion of stuff coming here the majority of the trash in Vermont is going To Coventry some goes to Glen's Falls. There's an incinerator in Glen's Falls a small amount of it goes over to other parts of New York and a little bit goes to Lebanon as far as the generation of methane It does tend to slow it down, but at the same time they are also Taking sewage sludge and other materials other organics and bringing that in but I think you'll see that There, you know the food scraps and vegetative waste accounted for 30 to 35 percent of the waste stream so It's it's the sort of Damocles where we're solving one problem that may be Causing a little bit of an issue on the other side in terms of how much How much Methane is being able to be collected and used for the generation of the electricity So if food food scraps are 30% of the waste line That was taken out has that void been filled unfortunately with other stuff that's now once again as your life nature nature a bores a vacuum and Financially that works as well They're always looking I mean that's As much as Kasella is trying to do the right thing part of there as as a Publicly-traded company is to make money and you make money by filling the hole So they're always looking for other opportunities to do that now remember that landfills aren't the only source of the methane for generation Digesters from places like on farm Areas are also taking a lot of the food scraps and Generating methane so and then putting things into the grid So it's not just the landfill, but the landfill is a certain way. No, my concern was it, you know, the large investment I've got to run it out of fuel seems pointless, but In to your point about Coventry life expectancy are permitting for another 10 years 10 years, you know Here and gone I remember a place in more town that had it So I guess my question is not more the permit for Coventry is What's the life, you know, how soon will that area be exhausted? You know, we have solid waste Implementation plans the plans are designed to look at all the parts of our waste stream and try to Minimize what's going in the hole by legislative means by economic means by just changing the way we're doing business in total packaging is a big part of the The the equation that's going in the ground and we have environmental Proposals for packaging legislation Unfortunately, that doesn't seem to have attracted the degree of interest as a bottle-bill has and I think that's wrong and it's going to be I don't think we're going to see packaging Get traction this year but it should and it's that kind of initiative that will extend the life of the landfill and I think it needs to I Think we all need to look at the landfills as a last resort and not a first resort and I agree to that. I don't Necessarily believe that you're avoiding my question question, but it's more about so 30% of the waste stream was food waste. It's taken out now. It's being subsidized by something else and You just stated that coventry's or Kasella's Goal is to obviously make profit In order to do that they need to fill the hole as you stated I Guess my bottom line question If you have the answer, maybe you don't After the ten years runs out is that hole filled or there's still more hole to go Or are we going to be looking for another place to put it? Well, number one we've done the state has done landfill assessments and as you know It's not easy to find a willing location to put something That's a Lulu locally unaccepted land use So I would say the The number one thing they are doing is trying to Maximize the Amount of stuff they put in the hole by different techniques one of which is to Compact as best they can and and do you know the best Engineering that they can to deal with that number two try to recycle their way out of as much of the stuff as possible and Be able to eke out more space as they Go toward that. I mean they're never Looking to close that site out in the short term Because it isn't going to be easy to find a new one and I think What has to happen though is people need to work with them To Handle the waste smarter You get the things like PFO a's Pfs's that are creating the the dilemmas on groundwater and surface water and water supplies and treatment of water and You got to just stop making certain things and That's part of everybody ears responsibility as consumers. We have to stop Accepting the status quo When we go out and buy something we need informed choice Sounds like a voting thing you need to have You need to know what you're doing So as to as you look down the Landscape at where it's going to wind up that it doesn't wind up in the trash and I think you know Cassella has bought into as much of this as possible with this De-packaging plant which kind of was a chicken before the egg and that they they they built this thing But there aren't rules there. They're working on rules now on how to manage it, but they're There needs to be places like that that are minimizing the amount of stuff that winds up going to the trash You know you have you have we took a trip up there back last spring I think it was and You know cases and cases of Ben and Jerry's and cases and cases of Different kinds of craft beer and cases and cases of Green Mountain coffee I mean all this stuff was with with the packaging and the stuff would have just gone in the trash Historically and now they're emptying it and they're bringing it to digesters and they're processing it And it's the just that little amount of the packaging that's left over or in the case of the beers the Aluminum drinking is being Is being taken care of But we we all are part of the problem and part of the solution So I'm sorry if I Pontificated and if I maybe didn't get to you exactly the answer you wanted, but it's going to be a challenge I mean, it's not well. There's other you know, I consider a landfill just as much of a resource That's what you want to call it As other resources that we're finding that are starting to be more difficult To acquire Just to look for it. I mean ten years is a blink of the eye Really remember Chris. We had landfills. We had dumps in every town When I started in solid waste, I remember going all over the state and You found rats as big as cats. They were they were well-fed. I mean that was the early digestion They were just a lot of things that we've learned from this. I mean we've improved Dramatically from where we were but at the same time we still have ways to go I think as we improve we also create more Well as technology continues to come up with all kinds of new I just read I just read today in fact about you know the the Teflon Teflon, you know in the Reagan years Teflon was the answer to everything, you know cooking and all kinds of Fiber, but the reality is that Teflon was one of the major sources of the PFOAs and so they just came up with a new ceramic type of frying pan that has all the same characteristics as the Teflon without the Teflon and that's the kind of thing that we as a society need to embrace Because then we we have the material and then we don't have the problem Unless anyone has any further Roger. Do you have a question? I was gonna Move to nominate out Tuscany as the water we're a representative for Med River Resource Management Alliance in 2023. Do we have a second? We have a motion and a second to nominate Alex Tuscany for representative to the Solid Waste Alliance resource management Resource management not waste I say correct it I should hang around with you long enough. I'll eventually get it right Is there a further discussion if not all Okay, I would assume by him being here he's okay If there's no further discussion all in favor say aye aye any opposed any abstention Alex you're our representative to the trash district What about the per capita Right, I think we're that's a motion budget. No, I don't change from last year, right Right, but it may go up before it goes down Thanks, John, you're welcome. Thank you all much Okay, if we could move on to Chris you have Want to have a follow-up on little tenant white sure discussion? Yeah So the other day while coming off the project up on Driving down the road. I saw something in the road and I decided to stop and step Back up and take a look at it because it looked like a wallet and it was in fact a wallet After observing what was inside I called the state police one of our want to bury officers and Took him a dare so to catch up to me, but he did in fact catch up with me and I turned the wallet over to him But I also talked to him a little bit about a couple other things that Were a concern of mine I Didn't talk a little bit about The discussion that we had with lieutenant white here the other night But My son and I were driving up the ramp here the other day and my son spotted a Homeless tent upon the leg that was barely visible barely visible So I asked lieutenant or informed the lieutenant about that or the I'm sorry I informed this other officer about that and There was a few other guys sitting there with me And the the topic of another series of homeless shelters down on route to here Headed towards the old dump or also present and When asking the officer If there's anything being done about it he said no because after researching He in fact knew of these Shelters after researching their location that found out that they were on agency of transportation's property Purview I guess The voters of the state of Vermont's property, but And unless agency of transportation put it in a complaint there's nothing that The state police can do about it that concerns the hell out of me The fact that they wouldn't put forward some form of formal paperwork complaint, whatever even on the dump road That's ALT property. Yeah down here by the pines. Yeah So And the other night while this this wallet after close close closer After observing it a little closer Even the state officer police officer Suggested that it might be somebody from not this country and Then the other night while sitting at my house or in the kitchen making dinner Some people walked into my driveway with headlamps on My wife was down to my mother-in-law's and My son had seen these people walk up the driveway and they were headed up to my house And for some reason stopped and turned around and We're running back down the driveway. Well, I didn't know it but my wife was had spotted them, too And came out of my mother-in-law's part porch and started hollering over to them and they turn and ran like hell Down to the drive. I actually thought it was my son coming out to the compost pile because we got a large compost Windrow up there So But I thought it was kind of odd because my son wouldn't normally wear a headlamp and he wouldn't why would it be coming to the Compost pile at night, but anyway, there was somebody on my property that apparently knew they shouldn't been there Because they ran like hell once my wife started hollering to find out who it was so that with a couple other things and in this this You know issue with the homeless You can't miss as after lieutenant white was here the other night We I had asked him if it's time that we talked to our representatives from Waterbury here about You know, what's going on at the State House is start to address some of these Issues that are creeping up on us and before we know it will be in our lap. I hate to see the time when You know homeless is laid out on Bank hail here with needle syringes and other kinds of stuff deterring tourists from going to the restaurants and You're seeing tidbits of it starting to creep in and maybe it's time that we request our representatives to come in here and Ask them What's what's taking place in order to? You know try to prevent this type of thing And question why agency of transportation is allowing this to take place because it's just going to further escalate If it gets it it's a foothold That's basically it a nutshell. I mean I'm I'm hearing more and seeing more About what's happening in Burlington and it's going to start to Resignate out And we're all going to be faced with it So I'd rather get a handle on it sooner than later if it's possible The only thing you think of is Chris's have like Tom write a letter to you know Agency of transportation to see if you know at least are they aware and Are they going to consider? I'd like to have Tom and Trisa come in and sit with them as well and Let them know that we're aware of all right the ongoing problems here and Ask them basically what is it? What are you with legislators doing about it?  I can check in with our state police to them and though I I wouldn't assume that if there's a homeless camp that in fact those people aren't known not just to the police but to social services and If they're there and they're essentially legally camping on state land I've heard from other folks who the state has taken the same position And to some extent There's homeless everywhere if they're essentially legally camping on state land and they're not Causing a problem. I've talked to other towns and they've said That's fine They can you know oftentimes the weather drives Drives our decision-making But in essence some towns their approach has been There's nothing illegal that about what they're doing I What are we what are we trying to accomplish in essence? It's the question I guess Yeah, I just had along the same lines as Tom I just have say like, you know, I take the route to commuter to Montpelier So I think I pass the tube by the pines and I pass there's one closer to Montpelier I mean, I'm just gonna say it was nine degrees four weeks ago So one problem I'm thinking about is why someone is choosing to live in a tent in nine degrees And why they don't have suitable shelter and I think just like that is a baseline I would hope that folks have a place besides a tent to live and then Again, what the problem is I understand, you know I also have run into folks at the train station when I was getting the bus who are acting in a concerning manner And I did contact the trooper, but someone living their life not in Waterbury. We as a select board I just don't know what jurisdiction we have again. I think we can press on state policy I don't know what it is, but if they're not I feel bad that someone is living in a tent And I don't know what we're doing about it if they're not causing a problem in the community Unfortunately, some people choose to live out, you know, you have the whole problem with Burlington where people camp and out the encampments It's not that they they don't want to live in a shelter They would rather live in a tent encampment not that that you know sometimes a lot of people don't understand that rationale but I I've never lived in a shelter, you know, but I've heard You know some horror stories, but I know there are some really some good quality shelters in this state You know you get some in bigger cities that are probably a lot more dangerous than I think the shelters are in our state But I don't know other than what Tom laid out I guess is your concern public safety or is your concern? Absolutely, it's never been anything but that. Yep, absolutely public safety and I've just seen the results of You're suggesting that our towns are Allowing it to happen because they don't see it as an issue, but then they get consumed with Large amounts of it and it becomes out of control and it starts to impact the quality of those communities I don't want to wait to get to that point I'm sorry that it, you know, and I don't mean to be In any way shape and form You know Mean about this. I just I'm smart enough to see Results, you know results of what other people have not done and what it's got them And I don't want our town to be that so I brought it to the board to discuss to see what you guys wanted to do And if you don't see it as an issue, then you know, that's where it'll stay. I See it's an issue, but I think you know what what Tom laid out what he could do initially is a first step You know, I don't know if I don't at least it's funny. I have not seen that encampment up on the ledges Very discreet and stuff like that and I don't go down the dump road too many times Anything else on that issue? Roger, yeah, I visited Vancouver over the summer and They have four city blocks that have been taken over by Homeless people and it's basically they condemned any commercial business Over those four blocks and you know that if that were to happen to Waterbury, we don't have four blocks to give them But you know, I don't think we're quite there yet, so I do think a letter to find out whether AOT is Can do some about it would be appropriate and Then about in terms of getting our representatives here. I think it's not a bad idea. I think maybe we should Consider getting up some issues to talk about Strategies that where we want to work together on not only homelessness, but a number of other issues that You know, we're going to come before both us and the state Yeah, I think just expressing our concerns about you know, what other communities are being faced with Just trying to prevent. I don't think that's a bad thing To try to prevent it from if we can't You know, I don't know if any of you watch the channel three news Yeah, the night they had a young college student senior college student down at the college here in Burlington talk about the incidents that he's had with the growing crime rate and Homeless in the you know, he's being chased down alleyways as vehicle windows has been smashed out been robbed Assaulted a number of different things and just as this is one individual. Yeah, yeah, they had 25,000 Incidences down in Burlington last year record number, you know that and It's our overdose and I call it overdose. That's what they talked about in the night of child ingested cannabis is up 1500 percent Yahoo, you know, we're getting the results of legalizing Marijuana It was controlled. I think more so before it was legalized and now it's for parenting Whatever it may be Is compounding because we're allowing it The animals look like candy and food. All right, exactly. Yeah Collateral damage is going to help weigh the benefit. I'm telling you right now I mean, I think our takeaway though and lieutenant white made this point when we were there is that we in it as a community are Investing in having two officers and it's not perfect and they've got short some but I'm just saying so I think mine I'm not trying to poo poo public safety I you know, I think we as a board in the community supports that and we have resources but my point I think the sequence of events is real. I have not heard any directly linked reports again I'm saying I'm going by it seems like people who are living out of a truck. It's a couple. I see them They've got their stuff in the back and you know, I'm not I'm not saying I think it's a good or thing But I haven't taken to concern myself with it because it wasn't in water break and I didn't see it I didn't get any reports of it impacting anyone. So I think getting the info of what's going on and then knowing that We have resources. So if it is a problem, you know, I think to be honest AOT probably also has an enforcement problem I just saw they're hiring for mechanics. I mean many people to plow the roads before they're, you know, that's I'm not trying to Again poo poo the other way. It's just figuring out. All right. What are they going to do about it? And if not, is it something we're taking on and how? So I think I'm getting the info is a good idea. I mean, it's just discouraging and maybe I maybe I'm the only one It feels like this but it feels like the world around us. It's just falling apart at the scenes and I'm so concerned about it in fact in our own impacting our own community that I have to speak out about it And you know to some people I might be this so be that's talking about these types of things, but It's because I care about everybody, you know, it's not and I just don't I just don't want us to be tore apart as a community And wish we didn't live here anymore. Oh, I agree. I just if I lose my housing I might have to move out of water break because my rent right now is affordable because I got it four years ago on our Landlord owns the place outright and hasn't raised it because he's a good guy and if I lost it I mean there was a posting for a thousand dollars in Montpelier I sent to two bookstore employees and water brain said oh my god Someone's got an apartment texted my friend in Montpelier. It was the talk of the bar in Montpelier It was the one bedroom a thousand like when people say housing crisis. I'm not and that's again I'm not trying to poo poo, but like this is really you got people who it wasn't you know It isn't often a like straight street. It's like I had rent. I was paying rent. I was throwing my 600 bucks a month I had a job. Here's my rent. That's how it penciled because I was making you know, I do my budget I know what I make and I know what percent my rent is So if you had a great situation paying 600 bucks a month and that goes away There is just nothing and I just can't underscore it enough So I think that's the other side of what are we doing on housing because if you got someone kind of on the cusp And something goes awry and you lose one of these like golden, you know opportunity still I Can't imagine living in a tent and fortunately a friend then I probably crash on someone's couch, but it's scary We have more and more people that are getting closer and closer Okay, I think there's oh Oh See is that that's Glenn. Let's go. Yeah. Hey guys. How you doing? Um, I just want to offer one extra bit of comment to Chris's point Not to suggest you're you know off base at all Chris, you know Just one thing I would suggest is if you're seeing running from a compost There is always the likelihood of a black bear. They look seriously like humans running at night Um, but that being said the whole you know danger factor is absolutely real, you know, I understand your concern and you know interest in Remediating this issue sooner than later. Oh I don't know where the black bear got his head lamp though Yeah, no and again Chris I'm not trying to say it didn't happen I'm just trying to say always it's like when you lose your keys You're like who took them right nobody took it never happened. It just you misplaced and it's an accident And I do the same we all do it's human But I guess my point was just as far as housing goes, you know, like we're farmed, right? So we have a certain governing rule set through the agency of agriculture Which allows us to have seasonal employees and so we had literally a situation where through front porch forum I was engaged Actually, I didn't get engaged I just didn't respond But like somebody had said that there's an encampment up here and it's homeless and transience and You know, it was really insulting because I had staff members that were there Living there and some of them couldn't One of them couldn't quite afford to find a place through the winter and I had issues with insurance COVID works. I mean it was miserable as a friend and an employer Because technically it's not legal to have staff Farm staff through the winter. So I went out on the line and I'm not going to admit any kind of You know admission of guilt here, but the reality is people are hurting and I was trying to do my best I think I know lieutenant government lieutenant governor now Zuckerman had previously worked on this Issue and at least out, you know made a recognition the fact that we have laws that don't allow Farm housing through the winter the full time So I think there's a match there and I know I've worked on the Davis dairy farm You know, we do a number of pieces with hemp farming and and we are trying to be a positive force in the cannabis industry as many know We have some really great surprises coming in store for the year ahead that I think will be a great asset to this community and ideally not bring lurkers and all sorts of You know sort of the element of I think chris is concerned That will linger and and you know in some cases it's great because when people do linger They recognize assets of this community and take control and take a stand and actually say hey This was what matters and we want to encourage that I think as a community So I guess my point is if we want to do anything significant we could look to pairing farm staffing options For you know advocating at a state level and making that happen this session so that we have year-round farm staffing Potential working with people that are hurting and need help Impairing them in ways because every farm I've worked with knows exactly how hard it is to get help So just an encouragement and I'll back off from there. Thanks. Okay. Thanks Champlain housing trust had a former farm worker housing program exactly Okay Let's move on to the last topic before we go into the budget Real quickly. We got something from the state tax department 2022 equalization study Our education grand list is $775,000 and change equalize education grand list is $1,026,000,000 So our common level of appraisal is 75.69 percent. Do you know if that's different from last year? Yeah, it's a big difference and it matters a lot. So last year the common level appraisal was 86.46 percent So it's gone down almost 11 percent in a year and what that means is If you're if your house in our grant list is valued at 300 grand You'd take that 300 grand and divide it by the 75 percent we have now so really from the state's perspective from setting school taxes your house is really 400 grand So when you fall below 85 percent you have to get a reappraisal Townwide We will receive a letter this summer june, I believe Directing us to do that there's a process to challenge Your common level of appraisal I can work with our assessor to see if there's any way to challenge it, but usually it's pretty ironclad How long ago was the last Town appraisal? I think six or seven years. So normally sorry 2014 So last year excuse me or last year we were what 83% 86% 75% 75% yeah, so here's the challenge So we'll get a letter in june and we'll have to commit to a schedule likely beginning reappraisal in 2024 challenge is Right now 15 of 20 towns in washington county are below 85 so they're they're all facing the same thing statewide Something like 65 of all towns are also there and in another year, you know, 80 ish percent will be there So there's been Our market failure I guess is the way to put it and that there's simply a shortage of listers to do the work And I'm also meeting with everything. We're also meeting with thursday I'm thursday with ted brady who's the head of the league of cities and towns and we're going to talk about this Is on my agenda because This has been coming for a long time and everyone's so upcoming and I want to say to ted that vlct was not proactive at all and The vlct had been training and arming and you know, all these people who could be appraisers would be in better position Vlct is working on a bill that would Change the process and change the process. They would form regions probably counties But they'd form regions and every town within the region would get reappraised every eight years and at least that way there's similarities because everyone's in the same region you have some Hopefully some cost savings by doing it all once And there's a set schedule. So, you know, you're not sort of falling To the limbs of the market, which has changed rapidly in the last few years. So We'll see where that goes. But the challenge is right now Is that there's simply no one to do the work Dan can do some of it and can't do it all. He's going to have to have partners It's a two-year process at best when the people are there. It's a few hundred grand in all likelihood so We'll do the best to commit to a schedule to the state, but Hard to do the work when there's no labor And the state I'm sure recognizes given two-thirds of us are in the same boat But Dan and I were talking the other day and There's a list of certified Vermont appraisers and we're going through the list and it's like well That firms on the list he retired that firms on the list that individual is 79 years old That individual is 77 years old. So there's You know, there's no college degree in listing. So there's just something where the do you have to have a general appraisal designation to do Townwide reappraisal. I don't know the legal designation, but you have to be certified by the state There's a list of certified appraisers Because there's a general which is like they they could do all commercial and farms And there's probably some specialty to do municipalities Right I don't know that but I know there's some more of a general one that does more residential type Appraisals, which is a much lower lower benchmark. So by the time we're done We'll probably have a common level appraisal of you know 60 percent 65 percent by the time we Actually get reappraised Yeah Do you recall and I'm used to know a fair amount of this process, but A lot of it escaped me for some reason What's the sweet spot? That you that a town What's the sweet spot when it comes to a common level of appraisal? And and it go it goes either way, right if you're It can go either way that 110 plus yeah, it can go either way that the idea is when you're done you're at 100% even And then you know typically your your your cla falls a couple percent a year as the market moves So 10 percent is I don't want to say unprecedented, but it's Quite rare. Yeah. No, that's that's That's why I ask you again. That's that's a large percentage drop My next comment is the fact that you don't have the skilled people out there to do that, you know What are we going to get for accuracy when This finally is over with I think we'll have accuracy. I think it's just going to take longer than It normally would take Fun right we transfer my understanding. It's expensive, but we do I mean lastly didn't ask your transfer, right? That's in the budget today Any further questions on Not an exciting proposal Okay, we're moving on to the budget discussion Between what you've seen what you'll see today and then the library that you haven't seen with that board voted on it today Our increase would be Less than a penny But then what we haven't and the reason I don't have a final number is we haven't finished the final 2022 numbers and where the town ended But it looks like the town ended with a pretty good surplus that will carry forward So again, I can't promise a tax rate or a total increase, but it looks like At this point we'll be in a range that's Somewhere between I think at the worst probably a 3% increase Which would be a penny and a half and hopefully something quite a bit lower. So Some of that will depend on and the big numbers, you know, we're through about we'll be through about half today, but public works capital side is A very large percentage of it. So that that will drive much of it That's some of the best news today. Yeah Would that include I know we have a significant number of projects that are going to be done with ARPA. Are you kind of figuring that in your overall No I'm I'll have an offer request for you, but that would just be money That's separate other from the general expenditures. Okay fair, so this is Aside from taxes general fund revenue and expenses and then we get into What we call the nblf. So the municipal building operating fund, which I can explain some of the mechanics, but the Couple couple big numbers a couple important numbers. I want to highlight So the first is so the very first two lines tax interest and penalty Those numbers you actually vote on the They're they're in the warning. They're the first few items in the warning I think just about every town votes to charge the maximum interest and penalty right But in theory You could reduce those or the voters could reduce those Well, we voted that part down We have charged less due to during the in the covid years, but I can't see after covid that Probably want to go back to a standard level and then going down the page a little bit. There's a Substantial number I've penciled in 96,000 dollars for the Village admin service fee. That is the town charging e-fud For And that number is preliminary. If anything, I believe that's going to increase a little bit between now and the final but that's a portion of my time a portion of Some other staff time in the building for work we do on behalf of e-fud It's about 30 percent of my salary and benefits for example And then a little bit below that you'll see the number for the pilot, which is 350,000 dollars So the pilot is state-owned property not forest land state-owned property You'll see this current year or sorry Last year 2022. We actually got almost 390,000 So I went back and I looked at the last 17 or 18 years in our system Pilot grows on average about 17 percent a year. So it's really tempting to budget 388 Challenges within that growth. There's three years where it went down dramatically, you know, 800 grand. So There's always a little bit of risk there. We don't actually know that number and get that payment until november Um So you're budgeting on the conservative side? Yeah, so hopefully we'll get less than we got last year or 400 ish And then a little further down. There's that 92,000 that's um That's a similar thing. That's essentially a pilot on forest land in the town that number has been much more steady Has never really moved just goes up a little bit each year And then further down there's 105 and i'm going to Move that around, but that's just current use tax revenue. So the state makes you whole Land that's in current use Um, and then going a little bit further down to the quarks side, you'll see 80 000 dollars in 2023 And the budget last year was 100, but we only collected about 75 000 That's driven to a large extent by not just the real estate market but by refis And with interest rates up that's That's dried up. So I think 80 is a is a better number Yeah, it might be a little high actually might be a little high But I think it's a good number all depends upon what the interest market is budgeted at the last year's actual We can do that and I think above that The ojama and service fee would go up and offset any change in that change there Mm-hmm Going a little further down there's 50 000 dollars from the tax stabilization fund that's been a number that's been Budgeted for a while and there's a there's actually a board policy adopted related to that. So it's well within the policy But that fund is around a million bucks So it's in great shape so those Sort of total general fund revenues are Lower than last year by a little bit taking away the ARPA, which was a big one shot right About two percent lower But nothing really major occurring and the reappraisal revenue is a good chunk of it. Sorry not the reappraisal of the corks face So you're not putting any ARPA money in this year not putting any ARPA money in here until it's Proved at least Yeah Sorry, we're going to look at bridges next week. Yep on two general government expenses the regular pay is A good chunk of the of the town hall staff Is in a separate line to those lines are really consistent with the current year budget The health insurance is just based on people in their planned choices I'm part of your culprit. Sorry to say Going down a little further About halfway down the page. There's a $10,000 light item for professional services.  I'm sorry $3,500 in there for a payroll system Um So the town uses and this is also part of my vlct conversation the town uses um A suite of software packages by a company called Nemerick Nemerick is um Really 1980s 1990s software? Oh Bob Butler IT consultant has Twisted my year a bunch about some of the concerns he has with Nemerick So the biggest Risk that We have is Payroll and employee data some of the sensitive data there. So Once we get through the budget and into the summer I'm going to work with michelle and accounting To see if I can identify a modern payroll system Part of the benefit of that system is right now for timekeeping or paper So any modern system would have time clocks that feed into the system. So in public works you would punch in and out so Better than paper accountability not that I don't trust her employees, but anytime you got a punch o'clock. It's An improvement So there's some gain there and then from the employer perspective You know if you're Getting a loan and you need a copy of your most recent pay stubs. You have an app on your phone You Go up there if you want to get your w2 same thing So there's be some benefits from their end And then again all the modern systems also have the ability to punch in and out with your phone But only if we let you do that So, you know if you're at a conference we can turn it on and off for instance Or if your job Requires you to travel around maybe not be at the office first thing You can do that. So there's There's a lot of options 3,500 bucks isn't is an estimate wouldn't start january 1 Probably would start mid-year late in the year or even 2024, but i'm just Hoping to get some approval and transition things there No, would this be an annual cost or is this like a One time up for 10 years? No, they're being ongoing annual cost I think there'd be some better accountability with it too And then better security Yeah, cyber security But there'd certainly be an ongoing annual cost You know that the analogy I make with the software we use now is it's It's like going away in vacation for a week and you hire your neighbor's kid to mow your lawn which works great Versus having a car dealership with three acres of landscaping You don't hire your neighbor's kid you hire a professional service company I think we need a higher professional services company Nemerick Every town in vermont uses nemerick because nemerick has a state contract for the grand list So because we have this statewide education tax, they better know everyone's grand list The state put out the bid a few years back and nemerick did not win the bid So we're moving off of nemerick For the grand list side of things. I don't have an exact date. I think it's in a year or so Is it nemerick like kind of a creature of vermont league of cities and towns? It's a private firm The lct actually tried to buy it a few times. Okay Just never happened for a bunch of reasons, but it's I thought they It's just really old software. Yeah, it works fine for our purposes, but I've got Gets it done gets it done and it gets it done and it's really cheap I think it's worth to spend a little more money on the payroll side We'll have to spend more money on the grand list side when the time comes. What's the cost differential do you think about? It can be as much as you want it depends on what company might service with you. Yeah, there are companies that have a full service software suite that Can work for a town our side or can work for new york city All right, we don't need to spend 50 grand a year on software But I think a little bit more on the payroll side would be useful I wouldn't wouldn't rush into it. I'd start exploring this in some detail in the summer Michelle the the bookkeeper would really be the be the lead contact there and if she's I think her input would be probably more important than mine and which system we choose Can you try before you buy? There's all sorts of demos yet Yeah, just going back up to the The professional services the We'll be losing our Minas will plan her This year Are we planning any sort of funding for the search or replacement? I don't think you need to pay for the search. I think we'll just advertise that And that's not a huge cost because I don't think we're gonna Struggle to find a Vermont candidate. So I don't think we need to do anything beyond, you know the lct and seven days The interesting thing about filling that job is and I've worn this recently is It's actually not my hire The I believe the planning commission makes a recognition does it makes a recommendation So they do it with our funding Correct, so they can recommend you can say no So you think that'd be a hard hire with that state? No, I think that I think there's I think there's a lot of people I think we're an attractive town a lot of towns and deputies There's regional planning commissions around the state. So I think there's a good candidate the folks to choose from Yeah, I didn't think we would see people that would have to go out of spain. No, I don't think we will I think we'll advertise that You know seven days from aunt and right the normal sources So it's 10 grand too much or is that just A reasonable number to I think that's a reasonable number I don't think we're going to spend a lot on that particular position to fill it Okay All right. Thank you. Sorry. No problem Legal services. I'm just proposing the budget our historical average There was a much bigger budget in 2022 that we didn't need So I think 12 five should should cut it There's a separate legal services budget In planning for some of his issues So this is in essence legal services I need or legal services the board might need And then going down a bit further about two thirds down the page there's 61 871 dollars And that's we'll get to it on the last page of this but that's that municipal building operating fund. So this is This is just costs that are transferred to that fund. So this is a revenue in another place in the budget But this This is a good chunk of Bill Woodruff's expenses. This is a good chunk of debt service on the building This is a good chunk of the power and the systems and all those things that we spend money on And then near the bottom of the page, you'll see the transfer to reappraisal fund So in that fund at the end of 22 we have a fund balance of about 200 000 So putting another 50 into it should get us to a great place where When we've got to reappraise soon enough we'll be able to use that fund balance and not hit the tax rate Yeah, we'll be digging it out of our pot the last minute. That's the hope Do we have anything there now or is this the first about 200 now? So 200 hopefully moved to 250 Okay, um county taxes. I don't have a number from them yet Um, but I just see 100% increase at the next minute Hopefully it's not After much higher than that We have a budget meeting, right? So talk quick question county Yes, yes, I think it's next friday if anyone wants to go. Unfortunately. I'll be away To the county tax We'll have their number then What was that for I'm sorry the county because he was just saying I don't know what the county tax rate is And I think Karen sent us an email and I said I didn't know there was a county meeting about the county tax, right? And evidently there is and it's next friday if anyone's interested Yeah, county taxes. That's for the sheriff's department, right? um I believe that goes towards to the sheriff's department sheriff's Yeah courts clerks My question i'm sorry tom was um youth when it comes to reappraisal Just thinking about this reserve fund here for the reappraisal That'd be a bid process or How will that work? Start hiring somebody probably a bid process. It may be that um Dan has some partnership opportunities with other town appraisers nearby and we can Uh, call something together and negotiate it directly rather than put it out to bid Um, what i'm hearing from other towns is they're putting out the bid and no one's responding Okay, so that's where we're at but fortunately we've maybe you know Maybe vlct's bill will get through and that will give us a little daylight about getting in a better place Yep going back to county expenses. We talked about possibly using The sheriff for doing some law enforcement for speeding and stuff like that That number wouldn't include that. No, that's uh, that would all be a fee for service part of those So i'd be a different just a separate line item for a fee for service. Yeah, okay. Yeah Are we still considering doing that? I don't know it's it seems to be a Big buzz thing in the community speeding That's for another meeting. I think yeah, it's the conversation we had last time right about that position We had that kind of incorporated some of these things and what our overall approaches a little further you'll see A line for 17,300 again, and that's Most of that funding um Is for fireworks on the 4th of july there's a couple other minor expenses So we've got um, I actually just got lee today's cost estimate for this year Um, so that's there's an increase There's a discount if you buy the fireworks in january. All right um, so that's A bit of a pressing issue doesn't need to be cited tonight, but should be decided soon enough And then not on the agenda tonight, but the rotary is also asking for $5,000 For the concert in park series and now luis will be here at a later meeting to discuss that one with you Not to be cranky, but to the what I thought was valid point about Senior center you're showing this as a line in general government. So I guess like It feels like we're doing a bit on a whim again I have no problem with the request and I understand we'll hear about it in full But to me this is the funky like we've got some general government lines to Private local nonprofits, which again I have no problem with but what we're doing there and what we're doing as a special article So I think this I think this one is because we purchased the fireworks directly the rotary I'm not seeing the fireworks. No, she's talking about the concert Fireworks, I totally understand why that's a general government. Um But I guess a park concert series Funding for that again. I'm not disputing That and we can litigate that next week. I guess I'm just raising like it's another piece That's in general government. So I just feel weird one more then saying like, oh, no, we make it be a separate article So the senior center, I put it here just to try to get the bottom line reasonable it can It can be elsewhere that I That's not my Doesn't impact me whatsoever. Totally and again. I'm not warning. That's fine. Yeah I'm not necessarily proposing that. I just think we should have some sort of consistency about how these things are done. Yeah So I don't mean to keep throwing questions at you, Tom But um, so you got 17,300 in here for for the um, fourth of july fireworks You mentioned a possible increase if we don't get a what would that be any idea? I think it's 10 percent. Okay. Yeah They're up like from what I understand fireworks are up about 35 percent. They're As is reflected, right? Well, I don't I think that's reflected partially here, but it's also just Reflects that we always seem to pay in january to get that No, I just didn't know what the increase was. Yeah Just going down a little bit further There's 14,000 up 14,500 for new equipment That is a list I went over with the it consultant some of that is Um, just amazing it equipment. Some of that is some license fees that we just need to spend Um, there's not much we can really do to avoid there. That's that's not The payroll system anything related to that. It's essentially equipment in this building that is getting old I know that feeling So preliminarily Alyssa the senior citizens gave me a while back an increase of 2,500 So tonight it became 6,500 So I will I will see and I actually give you credit I thought you were matching because she said 20 and to be fair that is a 20 increase on that line They just had this separate 20k as the special article So maybe that's Again, I have no I have no con with the senior citizens request And I have no con with including part of it in the thing or the whatever I just as a new board member feel like I'm walking in with a very random rationale as to why things are in different places I think it's just more transparency to see that The people have some say, you know, we'll put some of it in the regular budget and the rest is up to the voters And again, no Discredit to Rotary, but why should I not say that about the $5,000 for the concerts, which is a totally new request Oh, I know by that principle be a special article Yeah, I had a long conversation with al who is about this one He'll I'm not going to go into that. He'll go into some of the videos, but there's He's going to give you a 40-year Description of what we're we specialize in long descriptions again. It's not I think it's a justified expense. I'm just You know consistency Going down a little further, you'll see there's $15,000 that goes to the cemetery fund.  That's fine by me Going down a little further Public safety that the state police contract Has the lowest rate increase of any contract this town is signed. So that's Good thing. That's a good thing And then you'll see the water barrier the water barrier ambulance service has a $25,000 increase and that's based on $26 per capita fee How much longer do we have our contract for the state police? I have to check if it's I think we got a couple years Right we just signed last year I think so I think we have two more years. I believe so Let's hope we have longer than that So between general government Expenses and public safety expenses. There's a $40,000 increase on a On a budget of a little over 1.5 million and the last page the municipal building operate fund and this is This is one of those pieces of mechanics And and maybe this is something that we want to discuss and change Not for 2023. I don't think but going forward because In essence all the expenses in this fund are in other departments So bill thought Some years back and the board agreed that it would be most transparent if there was a separate fund to show the true cost of owning and operating this building but in other towns they They say well it inflates the total budget and looks like double counting And so it looks like what I'm sorry In essence it's it's double counting in some respects because every expense in this fund is elsewhere in the budget And it just transfers in here And so it makes it a little harder to look at the big picture and say our true operations cost this much because it's really this much But you've got to net out The expenses that are transferred elsewhere So it all just it all depends on how the board wants to show it. It's been shown this way for a long time I don't want to change it in the short term, but in the long term you might want to think about it differently So the the revenue in the transfers from the general fund Come from other places in this budget And then the library pays a significant chunk of it and that I believe is all based on square footage And that that cost is reflected in the library's budget And then on the expense side I might have some before Ross had done. I'll probably have some minor administrative changes here because every year we We look at Bill Woodruff and Alex Tuske and others and we look at they track their time weekly so we then Look at the last few years and the trends and make little adjustments based on their payroll infringement how we think We're going to spend it going forward the good news is you've got a really good new building so there's um There's no significant item that needs to change um The maintenance stuff a bit, but that's really consistent with the actuals, but Much of that is just your standard cleaning contracts things like that.  There's nothing in this budget pressing where I'm asking has been You know 30 grand of new money on a project or no roof or anything um So roughly 20 000 of bill's salary is town related. The rest is really ifa Uh, well, that's that's that would be woody's here So that'd be his yep salary infringement. So The way it works is He is technically an ifa employee right and then he's charged off. Yeah, he's charged off in different departments So some of it is in the building and some of it is in the highway department Um, I'm technically a town employee and 30 percent of my cost is charged charged That's a good question What is the cost to rent the room It's 25 for the first two hours And is there a differential if you're I'm not is there a reduced rate for a non-profits or anything? We brought it up for planning and zoning like I think it's a fee, right? We don't have to But municipal like you know different like a conservation commission. They don't have to pay for If it's a government entity, right, it's a municipal government entity you don't pay Right, but the state of vermont has got their digs on this room in there. They should be Yeah Should be how I write In looking at the fees we charge Quarks fees are just set by law generally The recreation department fees historically are set by the manager Right, but there's a schedule of fees on the town website that's set by the board So I think changing those fees is going to have a major impact on the budget But I think we get through a january meeting schedule on if Maybe we just pull the schedule of fees and that's on the agenda in february or march Just to be clear, it wasn't so much asking if the fees could be raised, but why do we have 750 on the budget instead of If I read this right Not a lot of people rented the room out 20. Yeah, the actuals are 1720 last year I was just I was just wondering if you have Hang on to me. Let me just pull it up And nothing in the budget for 22 because we didn't run it for covid I see what you're saying. Yeah, I didn't look at the actuals from those other years So we can we can change that. Yeah, but you know as far as what we Won't be charged. So we're we're back to really 2018 2019, right? Yeah, looks like we looks like we do as much as 3500 in a year Which is great because that money is paid to clean the carpets. I'm sure and things like we used to do for free He used to feel a lot about this room for a free That's it Sort of it That's a good catch. Thank you. Yeah But is $25 for two hours enough? No, no, I don't think so By today's standards, that's just like But there are a lot that's still free. It's basically free Pay more electricity If it would please the board we can I think when the dust settles in the budget, we're through a january schedule We can just pull the schedule of fees and we'll put it in the parking lot for now. Yeah Yeah I don't think by going up a little bit it's going to hurt anyone by to rent this room out right and Market rates are much higher Go find a room else go go to st. Leo's hall or something. I'll see what they'll have to pay Well, this room has the integrated Oh, I know it has more where st. Louis leo's hall. I don't think has near the feet interesting Was minimal couple hundred dollars, but the company that I called told me it would be like $10,000 to replace So the state that's a lot of $25 So the state uses this building don't they have their own conference rooms? They're booked No, good catch we we like extra money where we can get it And that's all I had on the on this portion of the budget today the next meeting which is so we from thursday will be bigger numbers I'll try to be As concise as I can have a government How long in the major choices? Just want to give A 30 second update public works. No need for executive session. I don't need to use names We are interviewing tomorrow for a mechanic Okay, good We'll see what that leads, but it's nice to have a candidate at least and then one of our employees Got injured not at work so he's Got some medical clearance to work as he can but he really can't right now So that might be a long return issue. He's got to address and we've got to figure out Unfortunately the weather this far has been good But Someone who plows on another word. Yeah, I back up real quick Yeah, so there was there was a small transfer last year But nothing big planned for the building Okay, so is this the same reserve fund that was set up to have a fund that's built up over time to address issues pertaining to the degradation of the building over time Okay, because that was One of the things that I had mentioned maybe possibly our book could We could take a shot And put that in there inject that in there because I've seen things Because that's my world That are that eventually need to be done here in this building that Will end up being costly at some point. Um, I was just hoping to Yeah, like like the reappraisal fund build a fund so that it's there What I have to check on is we use our defund the reserve Okay But we'll be concerned we use our before is to use our but pay for reappraisal directly And then that reserve stays with the town and could be transferred to some other Yeah, so You know, I had suggested maybe 150 of our being put into a reserve Any money that we put in this reserve in the past has been eaten up Uh with mechanical issues in this building and it just wasn't getting anywhere The exterior of the building is going to need some work here before too long In fact, maybe sooner than later because the same thing that's happening to this site It has happened to the Waterbury Center fire station, which we had to address last year And I forget what the cost price tag on that was but it was several thousand dollars Because they had to fix When and I didn't know I of course I didn't see what they were doing When they put the siding up on this building you're supposed to put a piece of A little bit of flashing behind the joints and they used Pice of water shield instead so consequently they have some water fields falling down exposing them You know surface behind that the water is allowing to get in behind that siding and eventually will deteriorate that so The same thing happened at Waterbury Center. We had to address that issue And I don't know what the parking lot itself that's Probably under the paving cip. I would suspect I mean that's Starting to fall apart as well. We actually addressed the sidewalk issues back in the day So I think we're good there, but there'll be issues that'll come along here before we know it that are going to cost Major money And you've got my arm also for the next meeting. Yeah Sounds good small amount so I say it could be all of it Yeah, that uh, third bridge We're not we're not uh, the town is not renovating a bridge on main street my first year Ha ha ha ha Underneath the railroad trezzel It's going to be a Tom lights memorial bridge. Yes. Yes. This traffic diverted by thanks to tom lights I still think there's a little bit more. There's still a bit more work in the main street project next summer that's Oh That never happened this year. No, there's one wire attached to all those poles So, yeah, I think that I think that bridge will come Two or three years. I hope there's McDonald's right on that extra work. So yeah, it's right on target for What they have suggested on that We had this conversation several years ago. Yeah, my understanding was it was it was just outside of the At some point you're using the main street project too big and there's an act 250 permit issue But then it's not wasn't part of the roundabout So Just one other bill Not that it has any impact on us, but typically we hire This is David as our paving contractor. Um, I just recently heard that they're being out out by jay mcdonnell Is that right? Oh Is that Paul? He's retiring He's retiring or selling out I suspect Is there any other business that needs to come before us? Just just one thing I want to say prayers and It's it's amazing what's happened with DeMar Hamlin if you haven't read he's out of the hospital, you know the football player and he's Has been transferred to buffalo. So It's amazing how much prayers and it's really neat to see someone who had to go fund me of $2,500 and raised 8.8 million dollars Yeah, but it's funny that they're still not telling you what What Was the cause of this accident other than He went down on a tackle on an impact, but I don't know that that's the cause of the problem Is cardiac arrest Yeah, cardiac arrest could be it's an electrical thing. It's versus it's not like a heart attack But you know where you have a constriction, you know, it's something that electrical that goes as a result of a sudden impact or something happening I'm just The poor guys out of the hospital Ready for the Super Bowl I'll move to adjourn Second