French wasn't able to hang around for two hours when the Senate ran long last week. So we've invited him back. I talked to the commissioner of finance, but he told we had a couple of questions for you. One, as it looks like the consultants may come in saying that if we're thinking about running broadband, if we can get them up with some small clusters around schools or telemedicine and they're coming in next. So we wondered if you had been able to identify those. We talked about it before. And then the other was education financing. We've kind of been kicking the, we've got the yield bill. We're kind of putting off doing anything with a deficit, but there is a deficit. And at some point, we're going to have to pay our bills. And so we're just wondering what the thoughts were from the agency in that area. So the floor is yours. So good afternoon. Sorry I missed you last week. And sorry, I got lost here for a few minutes in the, in the clouds somewhere before I landed here on Zoom. So the, yeah, in between last week and this week, a lot of our efforts had already started towards the first time I started shifting towards a focus on reopening school and doing that planning. As much as we were filing sort of a stream of consciousness or a deliberation stream on the ed fund and CRF and gear and ESSER and the different funding mechanisms, we sort of put that on, I don't say aside, but I decided in terms of our planning efforts, in particular, as we were thinking about the CRF funding, that it would be very useful and necessary to have a description of what the fall is going to look like for reopening schools and to focus the CRF, particularly on costs that might be associated with that reopening. So just a bit of a recap, there's basically three pots of the money available right now for education under the CARES Act, the CRF, the 1.2 billion. And I think it's useful to talk about these pots relative to their flexibility and their timeline. So the CRF is probably the most restrictive of the funding sources and it also has the shortest timeline. It has to be spent by December. In ESSER, the 30 million or 90 percent thereof that goes to districts is more flexible and also has the longest timeline, can go out a year if not longer with a tidings waiver amendment that we were able to secure. And then there's a small pot of money to gear fund, which is the governor's emergency relief fund, 4.4 million. Similar to ESSER has a long timeline, but probably the medium level in terms of restrictiveness, because it talks kind of about three different strategies. And I'd say the third strategy can be used fairly flexibly in terms of any entity education or related that's been significantly impacted by COVID, but it's probably a little more restricted than ESSER. So we've been focused on sort of looking at what are they going to be the conditions for reopening the fall, and particularly what are going to be the public health conditions for reopening the fall. And that's guidance we've been working on together with the Department of Health. I expect that guidance to be produced next week or published next week. We're going to talk about it tomorrow at the governor's press conference, I understand. So you'll see here some more about that. But you know, firstly, I just say reopening schools for in-person instruction is totally possible. And we're feeling increasingly confident that we're able to do that. One of the strategies that emerged is we started to consider, you know, once again, this issue of CRF money in particular being probably more restrictive and has the shortest time to it. We wanted to look pretty carefully at what opportunity we'd have to use any fiscal year 20 expenses towards the CRF. And with 80% of our costs being in personnel, it drove us to that that area of looking at personnel costs in particular. So one strategy, I don't know if you have heard from Brad and JFO, they sort of been working a bit on or kicking the tires on this ability, perhaps to take staffing costs at fiscal year 20 that were essentially mandated as a result of the emergency order on the part of the governor. You know, we required school districts to maintain payroll and so forth as an economic stability measure. To what extent could those costs then be shifted to the CRF? And which in turn would give districts essentially a bit of a surplus going into fiscal year 21, which means then there's a potential to offset that with a reduction in the ed fund payment. So we think there's an opportunity there. I think Brad, I would say back in the napkin estimate on that is somewhere around 16 million dollars. Not a lot of money, but I think it's important that we try to leverage any opportunity to reduce costs in fiscal year 20 or apply them toward the CRF. And I think we increasingly feel confident that's appropriate. I think there's also probably a similar opportunity with school meal programs. Some of that would be the salary capture in the 16 million. But we're also pretty well engaged in planning for school meal program continuity through the summer as well. So there's a lot of work going on in that department. But I think in terms of reopening school, the total cost of that is hard to ascertain at this point. We did have an estimate done nationally by the American Association of School Administrators and their counterpart organization in the school business officials who estimated that reopening school is going to cost on average about $490 per pupil. That's true that would put our cost somewhere around 40 million dollars. And that might be a good opportunity to think about the CRF fund in terms of due to its short time line to think about costs that could be attributed to reopening school as a sort of a time bound activity that also would make good use of the CRF. And that would leave ESSER funds more or less in a position to support some of the educational activities that districts are going to note up having additional costs such as provisioning remote learning, mental health services or social services related to the negative impact of COVID-19. In terms of the broadband question, we've tried work inside the administration through the focus of the Department of Public Services, sort of emergency template plan that they put together. So to what extent there would be additional funding and education necessary to do that. I'm not certain about that, but I certainly would support trying to get funding through that plan because I think it's a good way to ensure that infrastructure is addressed beyond the immediate needs of education. I will say just- I have a question when you finish. Yeah, I would just wrap. I said I did talk to your consultant. I enjoyed that conversation a great deal and provided her some of the background on the history of sort of educational technology in the broadband expansion in Vermont through AARRA and so forth. Okay, does the Department of Public Service template reflect what schools have discovered? Like it sounds like just the brief meeting I had with the consultants that we're going to be doing a lot better if we can get one kind of compact area that we could just hook up somehow, then some kind of a, you know, hook up the state. I see you, Senator McDonald. Let me finish mine. And so I'm just wondering is anything the schools have found out? School districts or areas that have special difficulties? Yeah, I don't think there's anything new in that. I think it more or less was sort of like triangulation or confirmation of service levels that the Department of Public Service was already aware of. So I think if nothing else, we've used this experiment, if you will, in remote learning to confirm what we've already known. You know, the question is to what extent could funding like ESSER and so forth be utilized on behalf of school districts to address those concerns? I don't think that's possible. I think something like CRF coming in from the DPS perspective, coming in on a state level infrastructure, it's what's going to be necessary to address the last mile issues. Yeah, no, I don't think we're talking about education funds. I think this committee also has under its jurisdiction, utilities, which covers broadband. And we would be looking at broadband funding at some point. I was just saying we think there's an educational rationale to make those investments, you know, similar to telemedicine, I think the remote learning, those rationales can come from education. I think, you know, as we're inside the administration putting together that education package, we anticipate broadband investment being needed to fund the DPS plan, but the educational rationale being utilized to do that. Okay, I think that's what we might be looking for. Serena McDonald. The usual question when we refer to broadband, what are we talking about? In terms of the work topology or the speed, or I'm not sure the question, is it are we defining broadband as 25 three as symmetrical as 100 up 100 down? Your testimony defines broadband how? Yeah, for school, we have a standard that was established in 2014 of a one kilobyte or per 1000 students. We don't have an educational standard for home users in our profession. I think the public service has been running with 25, if I remember correctly. 25 three, I believe so. I believe Senator, that is the federal standard and this is federal money. So unless someone says something differently, I think you can assume that we're talking federal standard. It's up to us to decide if we want to hold out for something better. It's always helpful to understand what we're discussing at the beginning of the conversation rather than at the end. Okay. Okay, I think the committee gets it. Senator Brock. Secretary French, is it fair to say that there are difficulties or deficiencies in broadband for educational purposes throughout the state? Yeah, I think in terms of educational, if you're defining that beyond the perimeter of school districts, meaning we have, I think, accomplished a certain amount of infrastructure, we call wide area networks beating schools are connected to their central offices, or maybe schools are connected to their high schools and the sort of a hub and spoke model. I think that's fairly well deployed. I could I could say there's a level of difference between districts that have what we call managed wireless functionality, meaning the ability to push and control how they manage student devices at the wireless access point. So I would I would say there's a couple of problems defining that inside the perimeter of school, the level of functionality. But if you're speaking more generally about any person in Vermont being able to access an online learning platform, regardless of where they are, I think, yes, we have we have inequities and deficiencies in terms of level of access and capacity. Well, that's what I'm actually getting at is the ability to deliver remote instruction, particularly in this time of emergency. And a lot of our focus has been on last mile, and that sort of thing in terms of expanding broadband. But it's my understanding that we have a lot of spaces in places where ostensibly we have broadband in which kids at their homes cannot get access to internet. And that this is a more broad statewide problem, rather than simply extending it to places that, according to a propagation map, doesn't have good broadband. It's a broader issue. And I just want to understand whether or not that's been your experience of observing kids trying to use teleeducation. Yeah, I would agree. And I'd also throw kids and teachers into that as well, because the other sort of the side effect of this emergency is that teachers are now deployed remotely as well. So that's that's added a whole other dimension to it. Thank you. Thank you. Okay, so we're we got on to broadband, but we're back to financing. And I thought you might have on the deficit, or I know we're focusing on getting kids back. And it's also my understanding that a fair amount of that cost might be HVAC systems. Yeah, I think the in terms of the deficit, as I mentioned, our strategy that we're pursuing relative to salary, I think is a good model. You know, the first thing we should try to do is to identify costs and fiscal year 20. That could be addressed through CRF. Because when I think of CRF as I've started to unpack, not only the timelines and the flexibility, but also just the mechanics of how we would give that money out. I often think of CRF, I use the word reimbursement often. So, unlike SR, which is an allocation directly to districts based on title one formula, I think CRF is a reimbursement model, meaning that we would establish a fund and then reimburse districts for qualified expenses. So if I play that out, first thing I think we should try to do is to identify expenses that would qualify in fiscal year 20 and reimburse districts for those expenses. And then, you know, that would in turn generate, but I said a bit of a surplus and then we could contemplate, we'll say, clawing back, but the ability to then use ed fund payments to sort of, you know, make make make some headway there in terms of the deficit. I think the other issue, once we start talking about fiscal year 21, that is to look at CRF to help with the reopening costs for schools, which I mentioned is nationally being projected a 490 a person that includes HVAC in that. So we have, you know, I know there's a larger conversation about HVAC as a specific focus. I still think HVAC is sort of a sub item inside of a larger framework of reopening. It's not necessarily, it's a very important issue, but at this point doesn't shouldn't be elevated to be a primary focus. I think it's situated within a broader planning framework, but that national number of 490 per pupil, which translates to 40 million for reopening, I think would include any HVAC necessary to open schools. Yes, we'll have longer, we have longer term building needs as well that would would benefit from a more systematic examination of HVAC needs, but for the immediate reopening, I think that's a useful number to go with. I know there's some concern that HVAC could eat up everything or a good portion of the money and concern that money goes to the remedial and the mental health issues that we know. What's HVAC? Eating ventilation, air conditioning. Thank you. Fresh air. Fresh air, air exchange. Yeah, eating. So I, you know, our approach to that once again is to we've been working hard to get the public health guidance set up for opening schools because I think, you know, it's easy then to situate HVAC into where where it sits relative to everything else that people have to do. So once you once you put it into that context, and I think, you know, once again, we'll publish that next week. You start to look at transportation, you know, getting kids to school, feeding kids in the building, PPE, disinfection, additional nursing costs, provisioning and conditioning, nursing spaces for isolation, temperature checks. I mean, it just there's a long list of things that have to be addressed and HVAC is just one of those. And then we if we put that onto the very concrete timeline of opening school, which is our objective, it's a societal interest, it's in the best interest of kids that we get those kids back in school learning. We have to then sort of make some decisions about where we put those resources. But from my perspective, in the last couple of weeks, my focus is really just on reopening school. And I think, you know, situating HVAC in that is important, but I wouldn't necessarily take this moment to begin a larger HVAC examination. Madam Chair. Yes, Senator Pearson, who's got a picture, and then I've got Senator Ballant. Thank you. Secretary, can can we assume that in the plan for reopening, there'll be a little more of a geographical approach? Should we have sort of a, you know, if there is a flare up in Chittin County, does that mean Orange County schools will be closed or will we be able to think about it in a much more geographically specific way? Yes, Senator, I think that's accurate. You know, we're sort of back to where we were at the beginning of the emergency in terms of, let's say, trying to, you've heard the box-setting, boxing it in strategy or containment strategy. So we're coming out of what I've observed is the social mitigation approach, approach this broad, you know, shutting down things. Now we're coming back around to, now that we have the management tools like increased testing and so forth available to contemplate maintaining operations of schools in the context of living with the virus. And that means we're back to what the CDC would term a reactive school closure sort of decisions, meaning we have to plan for instances where even in one school district, some schools might be open and some schools might be closed. But certainly regionally, some schools might be open and some schools might be closed. And, you know, our first goal is to get the public health guidance defined so we can understand the operational planning needs relative to opening school. And then our next level of work is to really lay out how those decisions are going to make and who's going to who's going to make them and what are the criteria that would inform those decisions. Thanks. Thank you so much, Secretary French, for being with us today. I get two questions for you. One related to the estimate of 490 per pupil nationwide for the costs of reopening schools. I'm wondering, do you have a document that gives a breakdown for what that includes? And if you do, could you forward that on to our committee assistant? I'd love to have a better understanding of what that includes. You bet. Thank you. Second one, and I apologize, I was switching from my cell phone to my computer because I was traveling. So you may have said this. So I apologize. But back to the issue of connectivity in districts. Have you at AOE been able to gather the names of families within each district that is not currently connected? No. Okay. And is that on AOE's radar screen to do that or how are we going to determine where best to spend the money? Yeah, it's not on our list. I mean, we've had difficulty with this type of collection from the beginning of the emergency for a number of reasons. Primarily we don't have the data and districts don't necessarily have the data either. I think the best data to use is to start with the public service data that describes where the service is and where it isn't. And certainly we can pinpoint, you know, on a family basis or I would say again, teachers where teachers live. But I think those public service, that public service data is going to be the starting point for that sort of last mile build up. And sorry, I realized I had one more one more question, which was obviously there's been a lot of discussion about what all this time at home has has meant for kids, especially kids who are vulnerable to mental health stressors or violence at home. There's been a lot of talk about the kind of additional supports that are going to need when schools open up in terms of help from the designated agencies in the area to do more work therapy work with kids and with families. I'm wondering if that has been factored into your assumption of how much money is going to be needed to reopen schools safely? No, I think the focus on reopening, once again, looking at the applicability of CRF in particular, is to focus on, you know, the, I would say the physical plan or the implementing the public health guidance. I think the other we're anticipating once schools come back online, one of the activities they would be involved in is certainly an assessment of the impact of what's happened so far and that I would say includes the mental health supports. We are in our guidance and our health guidance, including a section on mental health guidance, because we see that as being deeply connected to the broader physical health issues. So we're goal one would be to open the schools and then put them into a disposition to make this sort of diagnosis or this assessment or priority. But that that'll be emerging as I think I would argue a large area of cost ultimately in the coming months.  Thank you. Okay. Secretary, when you talk about the salary issues that you're going to reimburse with CRF, is that I know some food service workers were paid but weren't actually working. Teachers were paid, but teachers were working. I'm just, I'm, can I assume that the consultant that the administration was hiring to help figure out and avoid clawback is working with you on this so that we do have the acceptable documentation, if that's how we go forward. Yes. We've put our best thinking on it both in terms of Brad and the JFO, I think, have kicked the tires on this concept a bit. So I was talking with Commissioner Greschen yesterday and he thought it was, you know, picked around enough to advance to have those consultants take a look at it. So we're going to shape that up for them to give us an opinion on. Okay. Thank you. Any other questions? Okay. Secretary French, anything else you think we need to know? No, you know, look forward to working with on this. I think it is, you know, once again, from a logic standpoint, but important for us to articulate the public health parameters on reopening, and particularly as it focuses on CRF, but I think we're moving very quickly now that that's been sort of more or less finalized, though it'll be published next week, that we'll be in a position to, you know, map out the costs a little better. Dan, any thinking on the possibility? Because I was thinking, we're going to just assuming, and my connection is my grandkids who are good students, but even doing schoolwork at home, they're going to be some ways behind where they would have been when they start school, because three hours at home is not school. So, you know, the ability to call that and get it funded from CRF, I'm wondering if it can. But the other thing is, a lot of parents are struggling with this summer, with school age kids, and there's also a lot of documentation about, especially kids with issues, really bottom out in the summer, as opposed to kids that read and don't. Parents read to them. Has anyone thought about doing a remedial program this summer to start outdoors in the ball field? Yeah, no, I think districts are. I think it's been interesting to observe, I think, you know, the traditional summer programs, I'd say traditional is hard to describe, but I would say traditionally, historically, those have largely been remedial programs. Those programs have been expanded over the years. Yeah, those programs have been expanded over the years, really under the cover of a 21st century learning community program, which is an after school program we run during the school year. Those programs have expanded in the summer to include, you know, more activities, but also an academic component. I think what I've observed this year, you know, we've certainly green lighted school districts for the ability to offer in-person camps or summer programs, but districts have been very hesitant to do that, more so than they typically would. I think one, they want to understand the public health guidance a little bit better. I think some of them I'm noticing are using the summer as a way to test their preparation for the fall in that regard. But I think furthermore, folks are just worried about their financial picture.  So they're like, you know, I don't, you know, for example, I think schools are like, now, we typically spend title one on summer, but I want to reserve that for the moment until we know what we're doing. So I think there's, as we started to telegraph to people that, you know, we're not sure about the funding, but furthermore, that summer, this emergency is not over. It's not like we're declaring this is over and let's start going into remediation. We really can't do that so forcefully because the emergency is not over. I think we'll get the schools open in the fall and it's only when they're open will we begin that real full effort to assess, you know, what's been the impact in terms of learning loss and so forth. And that's, I expect that, I'll say that tale of that, that assessment period to last some time. And, you know, it's going to be a big, big part of our focus in the coming months, assuming we can maintain the operations of schools for in-person instruction. I'm just concerned about the kids who normally would have gone to camp, would have spent their afternoons at the pool. Those things have, many of them have been shut down and at best parents are, you know, yeah, just putting together. It's just underscores for me the importance of reopening school. I mean, we have to get back in business, you know, it's as much as I've been saying something like as much as COVID-19 has been a public health emergency, having schools closed as an educational emergency and we need to get them back open. It may be a parental sanity emergency too. My daughter says, I can be a full-time employee.  I just can't do them all at the same time. There's a lot of parents that are feeling that stress working from home. You've got two of those parents on the phone, Madam Chair, who don't know what they're doing with their kids this summer. I know. I mean, it is a hard one and they won't include the grandparents in the loop. Yeah, we're going to get there.  I think, thanks to our disciplined approach, we've obtained a certain measure of opportunity to do planning for the fall and the summer. I don't feel like we're in as much a reactive disposition as we were previously, but I'm pleased, I'm heartened to hear the urgency that everyone, every Vermonter encounter says, let's get the school opens get them back to doing what they do, because we need to do that. Okay, other questions. Thank you. Keep us posted. Thank you. We'll do. I think it sounds like we may be here most of the summer too. We'll stay safe. We'll know better tomorrow, I've been told, but thank you very much. Thank you. Appreciate your work.


guys welcome back to another week of what's for dinner my name is Andrea with Food and Mentory Adventures in Food our what's for dinner videos come out every single Tuesday and I am so happy that you guys are here so for dinner tonight we are having a pantry and freezer mill I'm still using up stuff that I have on hand so we are having sloppy joes and we are having broccoli fries so this is the sloppy joe sauce that I had in my pantry that I wanted to use you just add a pound of ground beef or if you have ground turkey whatever you have and then we are having these broccoli fries now I bought these during a time when I guess I thought I was healthier than I was so they have been sitting in the freezer and I needed to make them so they are broccoli and potato fries Howard and I tried them we said they're okay he said they need some ketchup but I feel weird about eating ketchup and broccoli but they definitely do need something I would not repurchase these I mean they're not bad but they're just okay I started off cooking them in the air fry they were a little bit too soft so I moved them to the oven so here's what they look like this is Howard's plate he made a little design for you guys and here's a sloppy joe that's the meat on the bottom he added some cheddar cheese some tomato and avocado this is my plate excuse me this is my plate and I just have cheddar cheese and then I toasted my bun I like my buns toasted he doesn't so his is not toasted and then my broccoli fries and then for dessert I made a cherry crisp using stuff that I had in the pantry so I had this crisp topping from crusties and then I had this cherry pie filling and so I used that to make the cherry cobbler and the crisp I should say and even though this isn't homemade I do have a homemade blueberry crisp video on our channel I'll make sure to link that in the cards and also in the description box and I made the crisp to go with this homemade ice cream vanilla ice cream that I made over the weekend so this is what we are having for dinner tonight and I'll see you guys next time hey guys so for dinner tonight I get a little break from cooking Howard went to our favorite local Italian restaurant and picked up dinner to go for us so I have lasagna and here it is it's a huge piece of lasagna and some Italian wedding soup and let me stir it so y'all can see what's in there it's so good so Italian wedding soup and a side salad so that's my salad here is Howard's salad he also got a side of Italian wedding soup and then he got pesto chicken and he got pesto chicken with penny and then we got a side of their delicious bread so good so this is what we are having for dinner tonight and we'll see you guys next time hey guys so for dinner tonight we are having taco salads I am using up this John souls beef fajita beef fajitas that I had in the freezer I got these from Cobra a while back and they were half price as you can see so I just threw them in my freezer for another time so what I did was chop up the meat and then I fried it in the skillet and so here is my plate on the very bottom I have tortilla chips and then I have some butter lettuce I have the beef fajita meat some cheddar cheese and salsa and then Howard has basically the same thing that he is not eating tortilla chips he has his on top of a flour tortilla and he also has sour cream on the tortilla as well and then he topped his with some avocado as well so he's having avocado the meat and the cheese so this is what we are having for dinner tonight and we'll see you guys next time hey guys so for dinner tonight we are having a pasta dish so for my sauce I am using this HB saucy Cajun sauce it's a cream sauce with tomatoes and Cajun spices we have not had this before I picked this up at HB which is a local grocery store here in Texas and I wanted to use it with it I added some Purdue chicken breast grill and I had this in my freezer so I used that and then I used half a box of this 12 ounce box of fettuccine from Kroger we're also having some steamed broccoli I had some frozen broccoli in my freezer and I picked it in the microwave normally I stir by my broccoli I just didn't feel like it today so I just steamed it in the microwave and then we are also having some crescent rolls the crescent rolls are from Wynco which is a grocery store here in Texas so this is what we are having for dinner tonight I would consider this to be a pantry mail because everything I used I had on hand I didn't go out and buy anything for this so this is what we're having for dinner tonight and we'll see you guys next time hey guys so for dinner tonight we are having grilled skirt steak I marinated it in this chimichurri style marinade from Great Value this is something that I had in my pantry that I wanted to use Howard and I tried it and we feel like either one of us are super crazy about it it's very vinegary Howard said he even thought it tasted limey and I really love chimichurri I'm just not crazy about this so I have about a half a bottle left that I need to use and then I made my green onion and mushroom fried rice I feel like I have this every single week and then we had some fresh corn on the cob that Howard grilled as well so this is what we are having for dinner tonight and we'll see you guys next time hey guys so for dinner tonight we are having orange chicken this was in my freezer it is from Wynco a local grocery store around here so we're having orange chicken with the leftover green onion and mushroom fried rice from yesterday this is my plate and this is Howard's plate he just has his on top of the rice so this is what we are having for dinner tonight and we'll see you guys next time


Why does anybody feel the need to compare themselves to others, especially when they don't know anything about them? jbrew22.com here with a general interest of log and today's vlog is about Comparing yourself to others. I Guess I'm bringing this up because comparing yourself to others is a big deal Especially today when you see nothing, but other people ordinary people supposedly on social media There's a hundred different social media platforms tic-tac Facebook and Instagram and all this other stuff and a lot of people are basing their entire lives on you know Comparisons I'm checking my mic Comparisons towards these people they feel like they have less or they're not as good-looking or not as hard-working And I'm sure a lot of these social media people can inspire people But I doubt very highly that Almost all of them can inspire people forever. They're not Philosophies they're not there. They're like little like one-shot nuggets of inspiration that in my belief are Most often forgotten and they just dissolve into the wind Back in the day You know you had your circle of friends and perhaps one friend may Sort of affect another say all that my buddy this happened to me when I was like I don't know 17 years old This was like freaking 30 years ago But my friend had more money than me and he had he bought a Jeep that was older than mine But and he put a lift kid on it and I didn't really have the money and I figured out a way to to put He had like a 8-inch lift and I got like a 4-inch lift and I couldn't afford it I always want to be like other people and then that's I think fairly normal in America or the world where like other people like you get I guess either inspired or envious or jealous or Just want what they have and that happened in a small degree a long time ago But now I believe it happens at such an exponentially higher level That it's become like a little bit of a sickness like it Have having it happen in little little pockets here and there is one thing But then once you have digital medium, like it's the social media. I think it happens a lot a lot faster and in terrible ways and Maybe there's a silver lining to it. I don't know but what happens is like like big industries can find Influencers that's what this whole social media advertising thing is they find influencers and they can get them to influence them to do You know certain things and I think that's sort of It's kind of a hidden layer if you know what I mean like you have these people you think you trust and know They look like ordinary people, but they're actually getting paid a lot of money They're getting free stuff and they're influencing people in different ways. That's not coming straight from the company It's coming from these influencers who probably nine out of ten people don't know they're being Influenced unless you know some people say oh, this is a sponsored post I don't know. I think almost all of them are sponsored in a very undermining way, but the whole point of this video is that Finding contentment in your life being happy with what you have and not even worrying about what other people have that we have nice stuff here our house is paid for and But we're not we're not swimming in money. We don't care We just are happy with what we have and we're very grateful for what we have as well So those are all things that I think are being forgotten in today's day and age. So that's it Key points social media and the internet kind of changes the way you think of yourself You think other people are better, but they're not really better They're just marketing themselves to be better and putting a lot of effort into making them seem so great and Not showing you everything and of course there's other people that take the Depressing section of it and try to take advantage of that too. Oh, I'm so honest.  I Only put my videos out to inspire people.  That's it. I hope I had a nugget or two or three of insightful information there That would help anybody so if you like the video, please hit subscribe and the bell and I'll see you next time


So ladies and gentlemen let me Let me welcome you to the United States Institute of Peace My name is Bill Taylor. I'm the executive vice president here at the Institute of Peace and It is a great honor for us to have the Minister of Defense of Tunisia here with us today Together with his delegation Whom you have seen as they came in but also we have Ambassador Goyi is here With him and Ambassador Brahm our ambassador in Tunis. So it's a it's a great delegation with the The reason there are the obvious reasons of our military People in uniform is because he's the Minister of Defense. Okay, but also He has just gotten back Just come to Washington from Cheyenne, Wyoming Cheyenne, Wyoming, is that right? where there is a partnership between Tunisia and the United States and the the National Guard and the and the Tunisian Army as this partnership that is a great opportunity for both sides It's a great opportunity for the Americans to understand a part of the world It's a great opportunity for the Tunisian military to get connected with and partner With the US military. So this is a Great opportunity. Is this okay? This is working. It's good This will be on the record And Fitz was is gonna take pictures of you. So it's okay. We also have people probably streaming in work. We're recording this So this will be on the record The Institute of Peace has a long relationship with Tunisia We had I was mentioning to the minister and reminding the ambassador that we had the president of Tunisia here in 2015 When president Assepsi spoke in our some of you were may have been here for for for that Very dynamic speech. So it was Very memorable for us We also had the prime minister here. Prime minister Cheyenne was here in 2017 This has been a great opportunity for us We've had the ambassador here on many occasions It's been our honor to have ambassador Goya here and he returns the favor and we've been to his embassy and residents on on on multiple occasions The u.s. Tunisia relationship Goes back a long time 1797 When the Treaty of Peace and Friendship was uh was signed and and through various uh decades and centuries We've maintained this Tunisia was one of the first countries to recognize the independent united states Back in that century And the united states in return was the first great power to recognize Tunisian independence in 1956 The depth and breadth of the u.s. Tunisian relationship that that i've described Has continued to grow uh over over the over the years And we were very pleased that Tunisia joined the community of democratic states in in 2014 and those in that historic time that everybody in this room recalls Minister um you have a difficult job You have uh A difficult neighborhood I'm glad we have the map here just to remind us all of the of the neighborhood that Tunisia finds itself And algeria and libya being immediate neighbors and we know what's going on in in those those two countries I for this crowd don't need to go through the the upheavals in both algeria and libya and minister i'm sure you will have something to say about Uh the effect of that of that unrest and and upheavals and conflict um on on tunisia So that we will look forward to uh to those commerce The The of course libyan civil war we've we've talked about as well united states germany and other nations have worked very closely With the government tunisia to secure the borders Um But uh again, that's that's going to be a challenge and that's a challenge that the minister and his as military team Uh is responsible for and will probably give us some good discussion of In in spite of um all of these challenges tunisia has maintained its approach to a democratic form of government It's got challenges got economic challenges um The united states and europe Should be supportive of the tunisians as they address those challenges We ought to be supportive on the military side have already described some of the partnerships that That the united states and tunisia have but also on the economic side and on the diplomatic side and on the political side This kind of support we should provide uh to tunisia tunisia as a non the major non nato military ally um is is a great is is not Common in that world. I mean, we don't have many allies really do good allies in this part of the world But so tunisia is is an ally which we greatly appreciate and we should support that ally We should provide that that kind of support Um minister you're on the front lines. Um, we look forward to your comments After uh your comments, uh, my colleague, uh, Mike gaffey, um and tom hill will Moderate a conversation. Look forward to having conversations and discussions questions. Um, uh about this And I think we can if we need these channel two will be english and channel three will be french And minister with that. Let me offer you the floor. Thank you ambassador bill taylor executive vice president Of us ip Your excellency the ambassador of the united states in tunisia His excellency the tunisian ambassador to the united states ladies and gentlemen At the outset, I would like to thank the us institute of peace For organizing this event which once again is a testament To the deep interest that the united states places in tunisia It is an honor for me To have this opportunity to speak before such a distinguished audience My remarks Will focus on four major areas I'll try to make sure that this Is not a very long speech so that we have time to have a rich discussion And so that you have the opportunity to ask questions later on First I will Discuss our view of our region's security situation Next i'll speak about the role that tunisia plays within the region As was so well said by the ambassador a moment ago Then I will speak about the relationship between the us and tunisia I could talk about that for two Two hours rather But I and it would still not be enough So at this time I will just focus on the main dates and main phases of that relationship I will conclude by sharing the challenges that tunisia Continues to face as you will see We have made a great deal of progress After the revolution which began in 2011 but unfortunately there is still a lot of work to be done I would like to first underscore the support that we have always received From our american friends and we want this support to continue for the security and stability of tunisia But also This success in tunisia is fundamental for the entire region I'll start with the regional security situation As you know The situation in north africa generally speaking and in the sahel is still a fragile because there are many issues and threats What are the main threats? The first of course is ongoing instability in libya Unfortunately as you all know The situation continues to get worse day after day Which has direct repercussions on all neighboring countries, especially on tunisia The second threat Has to do with the critical situation in mali and in the sahel In general This area Is a high-risk area because It could become a haven eventually for terrorists who Flee other countries Terrorist activities are also spreading throughout the region And this last point is particularly important because it is directly related To the previous point. We see ongoing trafficking of drugs weapons Human trafficking and this is connected to terrorism, which as I said is connected to Trafficking in drugs and weapons What is the security situation in tunisia specifically? One important point to mention Is that there has been a significant improvement Over the past three years with regard to the security situation in tunisia, but as I said before This progress is the result of close collaboration With our brother countries, especially the us Which is one of which is our strategic partner The second point about the situation Is that we are continuing the fight against terrorism. We've had several successes in this area Terrorist leaders have been eliminated For some terrorist groups. We have seen that they have fewer resources And because of that They Are less strong and again, as I mentioned, there's a close relationship between drug trafficking And terrorist acts that are committed With support of the us in germany We have been able to set up an electronic surveillance system In order to monitor one part of the border with libya We are currently setting this up. We completed the first phase recently And that first phase is up and running This system was inaugurated on april 11th of this year Very recently His excellency the ambassador of the united states of america and tunisia was president was present rather As well as the german ambassador to tunisia because germany also Helped set up part of this electronic surveillance system To summarize that We can say that terrorists are contained. They're feeling the pressure But there are two main groups that are still around And they are still active in some of the mountainous areas along the border with algeria Which is in the northwestern part of tunisia Moving on to the security situation in algeria and the region as a whole As you know the situation in algeria Also involves a terrorist presence in the eastern part of algeria along the border with tunisia And there are significant connections between terrorist groups on both sides of that border I'm not sure if you're familiar if you know the famous cheese grouillard cheese Well the border between tunisia and algeria is very much like that cheese once Terrorists are chased out of one area. They go across the border to the other side And vice versa We have excellent relations with Our friends and brothers in algeria Specifically with regard to fighting terrorism along that border in case you had questions about that We are also seeing the beginnings of a political crisis in algeria But here again If you ask questions about it later, I'll be able to give you more details But I can already tell you that this is an internal political crisis And I don't think there will be significant repercussions On the security of the region as a whole. It is really confined internal domestic The army Is highly regarded by the algerian population And will play a very important role In managing this crisis And ensuring that there is a transition after the boutiflica regime I should also point out here that there is a possibility For terrorist groups to take advantage of this precarious situation And current tensions to carry out attacks in order to Prove themselves and to discredit those in power The third point I wanted to address Has to do with the situation in libya. That is a completely different situation. It's very complex. It's getting worse day by day Most of the parties involved are divided based either on ideological convictions or based on tribal affiliations Alliances are formed Between these groups, but they're based on opportunistic alliances and not long-term objectives We also see ongoing violence to varying degrees in various regions of the country Daesh has been weakened Thanks to The libyan army led by Haftar However, the threats and risks have not completely disappeared As long as some of the main players try to Impose themselves and be dominant violence Will continue in the country and it will affect all neighboring countries and tunisia in particular The major challenges in libya are one unifying security and military forces Two, bringing back order. Three, combating terrorism And four, creating mutual trust amongst all stakeholders That mutual trust is very far from being achieved Especially because some Individuals advocate a political solution whereas others only see a military solution, but I want to stress here I would like to stress a fundamental point That is aggravating the situation in libya There is external interference in libya and efforts That create discord As individuals attempt to Address the internal conflict in libya. We'll come back to that later Moving on to the situation in the sahel We see poor governance socio-economic issues organized crime and terrorism and they are all interconnected Terrorist threats are also spreading there. Terrorists are using ethnic divisions and especially the weakness of the state Especially in certain areas of mali To continue to expand and spread The region could become a magnet for terrorists As I said because authorities are weak to conclude The situation in our region is unstable It is critical very critical, I would even say And we are facing hybrid threats Where we see terrorist groups Networks of traffickers armed militias And their ideological and ethnic divisions that make the situation even more complicated We believe that it is essential that we maintain and enhance Cooperation between tunisia and other countries in the region And the united states as well in order to bring back stability and security throughout the region And in tunisia That was the first part of my presentation The second part has to do with the regional context and the role that tunisia plays in that particular context Tunisia due to its history and its geographic position Has always had a unique position And it is because that determines how it acts on the regional scene the international scene And that's what our foreign policy is based on ever since independence Tunisia is a country of North Africa It is also an Arab country, an African country It is a Mediterranean country And it is also a player on the international stage Because it is at the crossroads Of many civilizations It has been a crossroads for many centuries Because tunisia has always played a strategic role within the larger euro-mediterranean region In addition to these geopolitical factors tunisia is active on the regional and international stage Since its independence it has promoted a set of principles That reflect its commitment to international law and peace We have always privileged dialogue negotiation and peaceful means For resolving conflict in various countries Indeed tunisia has always developed international relations on the basis of mutual respect And based on the principle of non-interference in the domestic affairs of other countries At the same time it spares no effort to support all efforts for peace, security, stability and human rights This has been the case especially since 2011 For tunisia a major goal has always been to develop and diversify its relations And to strengthen its cooperation in various organizations that it is part of And in various areas of mutual interest We have worked to empower various entities within the union of the arab maghreb Which is very important for political and economic integration of countries in north africa There are five countries involved here and we work with other regional entities Specifically the european union and the african union Tunisia has always worked to support solidarity between arab countries to promote Joint policies and economic efforts and that is why We hosted the 30th session of the council the leave of arab states in tunis This was from march 26 to 31st of this year Additionally the european union is a strategic partner We have historic political economic social and cultural ties that are deep With the eu and tunisia wants to further develop These partnerships with the eu in order to be a privileged partner For them because it is in the Mediterranean Tunisia has supported the euro-mediterranean process in various areas political economic technological social and cultural And it wishes to strengthen this partnership and have greater solidarity amongst countries On either side of the Mediterranean Additionally, tunisia has always worked to have stronger relations with african countries in various areas. However This is still modest despite the efforts that have been made tunisia has Also supported relations with european countries that are not members of the eu as well as Countries in the americas and asia in order to establish political and economic relations of mutual interest To conclude this section, we believe that tunisia has been able to strike a political and strategic Balance amongst all of these geopolitical entities When we saw the beginnings of the revolution in january of 2011 and everything that followed That is the democratic transition All of this means that tunisia has a new regional role to play. We are a model of a nascent democracy That is not degenerated into violence and instead we are moving slowly but surely Towards the rule of law where justice dignity and freedom are our guiding principles With regard to our international relations Tunisia has a special relationship with the united states. This is a strategic partnership It is based on a long history of understanding and trust between our two countries Which leads me to address my next point and I will discuss a few aspects of the relationship between tunisia and the us I would like to express how pleased we are With what we have achieved it is a reflection of The willingness and resolve of both of our countries to implement the values of peace security stability democracy and well-being for two friendly peoples indeed as you know Relations between tunisia and the us go back to the 18th century As was mentioned By the ambassador just a few moments ago This was the signature of the initial bilateral agreement on friendship commerce and navigation 27 august 17 97 tunisia will always promote the position of the united states Or recognize what the us has done rather because it was the first major power to recognize our sovereignty on may 17 1956 after we achieved independence Which was no easy feat considering that we were coming out of the colonial period throughout history relations between tunisia and the us Have been marked by this long-standing friendship and partnership And cooperation based on trust and mutual respect I myself Was a child of the independence and I was about six years old When we achieved independence and I know what the us has done ever since Borgieba was in power when it comes to schools health centers addressing the problems of malnutrition that existed in the country at that time I will never forget that support That we received when we were going through that period of independence because the socioeconomic situation was extremely Difficult after the colonial era era Our relationship is governed by a number of agreements that cover areas like the economy security culture protection and investment trade and double taxation I would like to remind everyone here of a few major phases that have that are a reflection of The continuous support the us has offered to tunisia since the revolution of 2011 The us recognize the tunisian revolution and the elections of the national constituent assembly in 2011 As well as the legislative and presidential elections that took place in 2014 these elections took place In line with democratic standards of pluralism and Transparency despite the fact that the socio economic situation was very difficult at that time on march 15 2015 the us administration supported tunisia during the conference on investment and entrepreneurship in north africa, which was Launched by the minis the us secretary of state and the american chamber of commerce in tunis on may 21st 2015 the us administration declared that tunisia Is now a major non nato ally there was also a memorandum memorandum of understanding that was signed codifying the strategic relationship Between the us and tunisia with regard to defense so once again i stress this special relationship Between our two countries and i pay tribute to senator john mccain I had the pleasure of meeting him on three occasions Going back to the beginning of the revolution when i first became minister of defense and this is my second time being minister of defense The first time it was from 2011 to 2013 about two and a half years I left and then i came back and i've been minister of defense for about 19 months now I had the pleasure of meeting senator mccain in 2011 2012 and 2013 and on each of those occasions He reassured me because we were going through such a difficult time and he said That the us would always be by our side and that has always been the case despite The support that we've gotten from our friends and specifically The u.s. The country is still facing major challenges What are those challenges? There are four kinds of challenges political security regional and economic and social politically despite a difficult economic situation and Tension in the region especially because of the libyan uh Crisis we can say that we are succeeding in our transition Slowly but surely Once the new constitution adopted Tunisia held presidential and legislative elections democratically according to international standards and in 2018 we had municipal elections and the results brought about Decentralization which is an element of participatory democracy, but we're going to be setting up Some regional councils We will be Holding legislative and presidential elections at the end of the first term and these elections would take place at the Last trimester of 2019 in about the three five months And which will represent a new political challenge That tunisia has to face The second Challenges are of a security nature in the region Tunisia faces terrorism challenges Illegal immigration Insubility trafficking and all these challenges need material and human resources The war that we have declared against terrorism a war that Tunisia is waging against terrorism After the 2015 attacks has Taken a new turn especially after the attack against ben garland This is a border city with libya and the idea was to proclaim A province of Daesh in Tunisia. We won this battle And this was the first defeat of Daesh on Tunisian soil and this became an example for Different cities that were concerned with terrorism And every year we celebrate the victory And this shows our resilience and our invulnerability against the macavelan project of Daesh in this region And and this because of the valiant and patriotic reaction of our armed forces our security forces and with the unwavering support of the local Communities these events and other events That terrorism is becoming international and requires a global multi-dimensional approach and I think sincerely that the security solution should be the last Solution there are other solutions before We get to the security solution Thirdly regional challenges the libian Situation all the regional and international actors have to come up with solutions That are sustainable for this country that is going through a major crisis And tunisia is advocating all kinds of initiatives from the international community to solve the conflict among the parties and Tunisia Is committed to help libyans find a political solution a comprehensive solution A peaceful solution without excluding any parties Fourth challenge economic and social challenges tunisia knows that Democratic transition needs an economic transition which would allow People to gain their dignity and their welfare And it's on this challenge that all the efforts are focused right now So we need economic growth to come back and this will have an impact on unemployment Of the youth especially unemployment among those who have university Degrees and we want decent jobs for qualified labor force Mr senator ladies and gentlemen in conclusion And before we get into the discussion Around this table Let me thank once again the u.s. Institute of peace for organizing this panel And i'm very pleased and honored to be among you I just wanted to give you a few highlights to start What I hope to be a fruitful discussion. Thank you very much and i'm open for questions. Thank you So mr minister, thank you for your opening remarks and for Presenting what is a great tour de raison of the security situation in which Tunisia finds itself in a very very difficult region And I would also underscore what a great friendship I think many of the people in this room have with Tunisia and I myself have been to Tunisia dozens of times over the last 25 years and count many Tunisians as good friends and I would also Welcome that you were able to also have a chance to go to Shaiying why roaming Whereas I've been to Tunisia many times. I've never been to Wyoming So I'm quite envious that you had the opportunity But glad that you could deepen the relationships with our friends in Wyoming as well Um, I have lots of questions that I could raise with you. It's a way to begin the conversation But let me ask you this you had talked about all these Very very difficult challenges when you look east and you look west and you look south And then there are the challenges inside of Tunisia as well So, uh, could you could you kind of give us a sense of What is it that keeps you up at night? When you sit there and say, what is it that you really must be constantly watching and you You hope you don't get a telephone call in the middle of the night to hear about something happening It's a simple answer actually to your question as a minister of defense my major concern Would be terrorism in the northwest As you know, we have a thousand kilometers of border with Algeria And it's a northern part Where we have a lot of terrorism and there are three governorates janduba or in the northern part kief and then ksen And as I told you before These border areas a shelter for Terrorists they've been there for quite a while actually And here let me just Underline the exceptional quality of the coordination that exists between the Tunisian military and the gendarmerie and also Their Algerian counterparts this is fundamental As I told you there is a direct link between terrorism on both sides and for a while Actually my first term at the ministry This coordination existed and I can tell you that there are different aspects of it We have a secure system Which was generously Provided by the Algerians and we're able to process information about terrorists very quickly in real time Secondly, we have weekly meetings one or two weekly meetings at the border to Assess the situation and also If these terrorist groups start moving We Would deploy our forces on both sides in order to counter their progress So what I can say about my phobia if you will my fear my concern Is when I know that there is an ongoing Action and I'm waiting for the results. I'm concerned For the security of my troops at the border The gendarmes at the border Because the gendarmes are actually headed by the minister of defense So there's no difference for me between the military and the gendarme. So that's my concern Now there is another thing the other front And maybe somebody is going to ask questions about this. Let me just start the discussion a little bit But the second region Which is a high-risk region But the risk has been mitigated. It's the border between Tunisia and Libya, which is about 450 kilometers Consequently as I have pointed out and as you know With the crisis in Libya since 2011 the border was The focus of all kinds of trafficking notably Weapons trafficking because that's the most dangerous one Because it goes from Libya to Tunisia and then from Tunisia Back to the border and more and more it goes into the Sahelian countries, especially Mali And recently We Are in an emergency mode, especially since the advent of Haftar The terrorists Who thought they had some kind of a hideout are moving Towards us and according to the estimates, there are about 150 terrorists who Found shelter and were active in Libya and who are trying to cross The sea border or the land border between Tunisia and Libya, so we are on permanent alert with the chandelier but What simplified our life is that there is an electronic system that we set up And the first phase was implemented and it's very effective as a system And we are very satisfied with it This electronic control system. So in a nutshell, I don't know whether I answered your question But in a nutshell, this is my concern when there are some anti terrorism Actions being carried out and I'm waiting for the results. Unfortunately last week we lost a soldier And a few weeks before that There were a few deaths So this is a war We are winning really, I did not say this But Among the challenges We had security as a top One but thanks to the improvement of our operational capability and thanks to the collaboration Between the three services as you know Our services were not trained to work together. They were trained conventionally and Now the tools And the resources and the training Have to be adapted to the new needs So that they can fight this asymmetrical war Which is unique totally different From conventional wars and thanks to the Strengthening of our cooperation with friendly countries notably Our american friends and this cooperation Touch upon different areas Pretending to counter terrorism from training To education to information Sharing ISR As you know intelligence surveillance Wacken essence And so on and so forth And thanks to this cooperation. We've been able to put things back in order. So security is no longer the mega challenge socio-economic challenges and regional challenges came first Thank you again for joining us today. It's always a great pleasure to have Visitors from tunisia in washington As you well know tunisia enjoys a great deal of support in washington and rightfully so The partnership that our two nations share is deep has been growing and will continue to grow If I heard you correctly in your remarks You sounded Like you had a fair amount of confidence in the ability of the algerian security services to Maintain some semblance of stability during this period of transition And I'd be curious what you're basing that confidence on and whether or not you believe that the radical elements That were so problematic during the black decade Are gone or whether they are waiting for an opportunity to reemerge and does that concern you I will try to answer this question About algeria, of course, I don't need to tell you that the The most important problems for tunisia are internal And also the problems in libya in and in algeria. I have never stopped saying that the security of libya and of algeria It's the same as the security of tunisia If we are secure, they are secure and vice-versa and the same applies to libya Contrary to our concerns about libya Because there is no state in libya These are malicious and so on Then they set themselves up because of ethnic reasons because of Financial reasons for opportunities opportunity sake reasons. So We have tried everything to find a sustainable fair solution So that they can all agree all the warring factions, maybe Organize undemocratic elections at least to start a process And from that maybe a government can be set up to Unify the military and the security forces and also take care of the militias because the militias have to be either integrated or Go on their own. So if all the security and military forces are merged the militia would not be able to survive so libya Is a major source of concern for us Contrary to what is going on in libya Algeria doesn't cause me as many concerns And this is why if you know the history of algeria You would know that algeria Has experienced a very hard terrorism era as you called it the black decade And we lived it together this period because we protected the borders Together And we played our role In terms of securing the borders because algeria had Many challenges at the border And so When you're talking about terrorism is something that algerians know very well secondly The events that haven't gone on for about two months in algeria and let me pay tribute to the algerian people This is a unique situation These are demonstrations or maybe a revolution you choose your world And they have always conducted themselves peacefully in a very civilized manner With a lot of humor by the way We have never seen looting We have never seen burning we have never seen people breaking windows and so on and so forth so I think this is a very positive development and usually it's young people who won't change just like we had in tunisia Secondly And very important. I hope it it continues like this because in tunisia it did not continue like that This is also A revolution that was spontaneous There's no political party no visible political party behind the revolution So people just won't change And all I want for algeo Is for them not To repeat our mistake because political parties exploited the situation in our country. So the expectations of change from the young people Were not feel fulfilled in our country because The political parties Took advantage of this revolution Of these events and Gained power or became opposition Parties but in algeria everything is going Peacefully Algerians know about terrorism and third notion which is very very important There is a government There's the military And another important thing The algerian people is very close to its military and therefore They have excellent relationship. There is total trust between the people and the military in algeria The military is going to play an important role to manage what's going on right now There will be a transition that's necessary. They have to set up The institutions to organize elections for instance So that parties can be created and get organized This will take a little bit more time than they are thinking about because they think about the 4th of july I'm sure it's going to work smoothly and as far as tunisia is concerned as far as i'm concerned i'm not concerned at all I don't think that There will be a spillover from algeria algeria has a government And there's total trust between the people and the military in algeria So there is total trust also between the tunisian people and the tunisian military So to answer your question more directly we are less concerned about The impact of what's going to go on in algeria on the region But algeria is threatened just like tunisia by what is happening around it So algeria like tunisia are pathways for terrorism Terrorists may come there to Commit acts or to go to some hideouts and i was talking about that their preferred hideouts Because there is no government there. There is no authority. There is Poor governance, ethnic conflicts So that nexus is the northern part of mali And they are there And nobody knows what they doing because it's a no man's land But we have to be also careful about sudan If there is chaos in sudan It would spill over The borders and there the terrorists will try to find different Hideouts and they would go to places where there is no Government there is no state And there are different areas where terrorists can find haven right now So I don't know whether I answered your question about algeria. I don't think There should be concern about algeria. algeria is going to find her own way and another thing I want to ask about algeria which applies to all countries In the Arab world, but notably in algeria. I don't know whether you you have been following the news in algeria The events are confined within algeria. This is an internal problem Our algerian friends that I know very well I've been knowing them for quite a while We have a common history a very glorious history especially In our liberation movements algeria or algerians or Even tunisians have always had a principle they don't meddle In internal affairs of neighboring countries, but they don't want also meddling from overseas but as If you see what's going on there is no Visible meddling as we see in libya. There's no visible meddling in algeria In libya you see some interests From overseas but in algeria You don't see that they're gonna Get out of this situation. Maybe It will take them less time. Maybe they have less socio-economic problems because they have natural resources Unfortunately, we don't have natural resources in tunisia, but I'm convinced they're gonna get out of it with A lot less collateral damage than in other countries So to confirm what I'm just saying and and to To tell you that things are proceeding Normally in algeria, you know, we have some joint activities We have a joint committee that meets every year And we have joint activities We have joint exercises We have visits And these activities are going on as if nothing Changed At the border We continue to coordinate our activities as if nothing had happened or this to tell you that the situation is well managed in algeria and another thing that comforts me is that This is a demonstration. This is a revolt. That's very peaceful very civilized if you will And This was not the case in tunisia In the first few months of the revolution There was a lot of violence, but Tunisia doesn't have the monopoly of violence. I mean look at the yellow vest in france or in Or what you see in other countries, but once again What is going on in algeria is relatively calm And the military is managing the situation in the country and I have told you that they're going to Come out of it with much less damage than in other countries So we'll open it up for questions if you have a question if you could identify yourself with a hand or some other non auditory Mark I will call upon you and then if you could say your name and your affiliation so that The minister knows who he's speaking with Sarah Thank you, sarah your keys from the karnikey endowment. Thank you so much for your remarks I was wondering if you could speak a little more about how concerned you are about the threat of returning foreign fighters Tunisians who have gone abroad to syria and iraq to fight with isis How concerned are you and what is tunisia doing to address this threat? This is a typical question This is a very controversial Question in tunisia itself And therefore we're trying to Study the situation to find a solution Because it has a double impact security impact first of all And history has taught us that it is not always easy to reintegrate people who had been terrorists before and secondly Which is an important issue. How do we reintegrate them within society? We are about 11 million people in tunisia We have 1.2 million who are overseas So 12 million maybe all together and tunisia Aton on this issue Just like other countries to give you an idea We cannot estimate this accurately but approximately According to experts and According to the border patrol statistics, we have had something like 3,000 terrorists And 70 percent of them were in syria and iraq 30 percent in libya and 10 percent somewhere else It's in the Sahel maybe The question is How many terrorists have been killed? We don't know All I can say is that There are about 900 to a thousand who came back And they were in these various areas and they came back to the country Because they felt the pressure in syria or in libya and therefore These terrorists have Been put in the custody of what is called the anti-terrorism cell But the problem is like there's no material evidence to Sentence them. I mean they would say okay. We were In turkey we were on vacation there. We were studying there and Some terrorists came in the country With degrees pseudo degrees Pretending that there were students in a university So they tell you we were there for three years. We know that they spent three years in syria And they were with terrorists there So we don't have any physical evidence And the anti-terrorism cell Is in a delicate position because we cannot Try and sentence these people without having any physical evidence and therefore What we do is like we check upon them on a regular basis And we can remotely also check on them But there are other terrorists So this is the other side of the coin And I have to talk about this The tunisian constitution is very clear With regard to tunisian citizenship No matter what a tunisian has done Any tunisian has the right to return to his country when he wants to Meaning that we cannot strip these people of their citizenship Even though that is what some european countries want to do. They want to Strip certain individuals of their citizenship if these are people coming back from terrorist areas. We cannot do that Now I won't necessarily get Into my personal views, but this is not how you address the issue of terrorism By stripping people of their citizenship because then they will be stateless And then you have People going left and right continuing these terrorist activities The second aspect of this is that there are terrorists who are in Jails and prisons in syria and iraq And some want to return them to their countries of origin I think it's about 150 About 160 Tunisians in that situation We know that they have committed crimes and We are asking to Take them back. I think we have taken back a few already We are making the necessary preparation so that we can take others back And we want to create a program to help them reintegrate into society There are three ministries involved in this effort. Our american friends are also behind us We are working with the ministry of Justice the ministry of the interior and the ministry of foreign affairs in tunisia together We are reviewing all of our options To see how we can separate them Initially initially the idea was to put them in jail with the general population, but We don't want to do that because You're going to end up turning the general prison population into terrorists. So The idea now Is to have a separate facility for women We are setting up this facility so that We can take in these tunisian terrorists in other countries who are going to be sent back Now some tunisians are in favor of this and some Do not agree And they want these tunisian terrorists to be tried in the countries where they are located now because those countries may have the necessary Physical evidence to try these individuals and perhaps we could take them back once they have already been tried and once the evidence has been presented Because all that we have is All the evidence that we have is a stamp maybe on their passport that they went through Such in such a country When we realized Just how serious There were people behind them In these areas in these terrorist areas and once we realized how serious the situation was we adopted a very draconian position with regard to Youth and in recent years. We have prevented 17,000 young people from leaving and going to turkey Because we believe that turkey is just a preliminary step Before going to syria to become involved in terrorism Most of our tunisian terrorists have gone either through libya Or they have gone directly from tunisia to istanbul, especially at first in the first few years of this i'm not sure if they Are other aspects that i can provide but there is no definitive answer to this yet We want to make sure that we are Abiding by international law Human rights and we will also look at what other countries experiences have been But i don't think that any country has found a satisfactory solution To this particular problem. How do you Take back and reintegrate these terrorists Thank you. Mr. Zabidi. I'm afraid we've actually have run A little short on time here But we want to thank you for taking the time to come and share your thoughts On the record and on record perspective, which is always useful and always helpful to us to understand from Those who are in the region dealing with very very difficult challenges So on behalf of everyone here on behalf of us ip we want to thank you We want to thank ambassador goya and ambassador bloom for joining us today for karen marude for Your help in helping to set up this session today And to also just finish by letting you know that we usip will continue to do programs in Tunisia to help resolve conflicts and to bring peace but it's reflection i think of the larger Point of that the us and i think the international community are all there to to help tunisia With its efforts in dealing with these very difficult challenges So again, thank you. Thank you very much for coming to us today Thank you so much and if i may i would just like to once again Thank you for this very kind Invitation it was such a pleasure to be here today and thank you once again For all of your efforts regarding tunisia and its future. Thank you Thank you