Okay, well I will reopen our meeting which we had recessed and we have two report presentations tonight. Doug Zorzi, Perro Pinto and Alan Goldman and Ruben and Charlotte Sherman. And Doug since you have a written handout I'm going to call on you to come up first and distribute that. So we have the report and I assume everyone's had gotten that and had a chance to read it. I got copies now, you all need it. And I'm going to suggest we just take a couple of minutes to read this and then take it up. We have a seat, Doug. And when everyone has had a chance to review it I'll ask the committee to present their report. Bob and I have a caucus on this. And Rosie Kruger is the one who wrote it. Rosie is not feeling well and so is not here. So it's you or me, Bob. I was guessing that might be the case. So I hope everybody's had a chance to read the report that we submitted. I will try not to rehash it. But I think the high points of it are that the, I'll let Doug argue his case and I'll come down to what we looked at in particular. So the assessor suggested three comparable sales, which are discussed in here. One being to the left as you're facing, I'm sorry, I'm losing east and west actually. I think that's probably west. And then the other being a parcel on, so that's the 18 acre parcel on Berry Street and then there's across the river on Isabelle Circle, another parcel that's under contract. So we considered those two. There was a discussion of the fact that a portion of this property had been sold and so there was kind of a sales value that was established on that. The appellate made arguments about a concern about the expectation that the TIF district, you know, kind of influenced the purchase price. I think in the minds of the committee, we sat that one aside rather than having that as an argument about did it influence or didn't it influence. So we sat that as a comparable to the side. We did because there was also a discussion of the value of the country club road property, so known as the golf course of the Elks Club and considered that as a comparable and noted that the prior owners or current and prior owners of the property had agreed to $1.5 million valuation of the property that was in Doug talks about it in his response that was part of a process of trying to put a price on it. We felt that that was a compelling one in that the owners of the property based an easement purchase price based on that. So there was some acceptance of on the owners part of yes, that's what the value was. And we talked about that in here. So we thought the sale of the 18 acres was a good comparable. We thought the sale of the country club property was a good comparable. We listened to the argument, we listened to all of the arguments, of course, but another one was about kind of the restrictions on the use of the property. The appellants offered as part of their testimony when they were here last a portion of an easement that described the easement. But if you read the entire easement, you will you will see that in fact there was no restrictions and didn't preclude in any way a further negotiation about easements that could be obtained across there. We certainly heard the argument that the appellants were making about the cost of development. But honestly, we're not terribly swayed by that. And what I think Oh, and based on both the sale of a country club property, the 18 acre property and the fact that 1.5 had been an agreed upon price a number of years ago, we were really thinking, gosh, the assessed value of this property ought to be what it was originally, which was on the order of that 1.5 million. We then realized that the acreage was off. We thought it would have forgotten. I think it was originally thought to be on the order of about 100 acres. And in fact, in the discussions through the review, the informal process, the city realized, I think that it's 94. I'm sorry. Yeah. And so based on that, you know, backing in at a per acre price, we talked ourselves into saying, rather than it should be the original 1.5 that the city originally established that we felt it made sense to uphold the assessors original of the final decision of 1,099,500. And that's the report. I think those are the high points of it. Bob, do you Yeah, I just compelling for me was that the interest in the property that was sold for 765 and the 2015 appraisal that was made was compelling enough for me to say that at first we thought maybe it should be 1.5, but there were other issues that and the appraiser also was looking at 1,099,5 that we just said that we should recommend maintaining that valuation. Thanks. I'll I'll put it up to questions. I'm going to I want to follow up on this question a little bit. Whatever the number of acres is, it's the same size now as it was in at the time the easement was computed and the same time as it was in what it was a 2020, I think when the when it was set for the for that transaction. And as I said, whatever the number is, the parties agreed that the value was a million and a half or a million 530. And so did that does that make you think well, maybe that really is the value? Or is there some other we were we were three minds on it. One of us thought it should go to 1.5. One was thinking let's support the appraiser. And one was I can go either way. So so this is how you came out. Yeah, this is how we came out and and your points very well taken, regardless of the size, the value was what the value was. But we had a we couldn't talk ourselves into that once once we realized the change during the informal process of the acreage. We couldn't talk ourselves back to 1.5, essentially. And the change is about 6% in acreage from around 100 to around 94. What was it originally? And it was 100.2 something. Yeah, OK, 94 change. So about six acres. Yeah. And so then I raise the question in my mind is that reduction in six acres enough to come down a third? But that's that's just a question that people may want to discuss. There was also the discussion about recognizing additional wetlands on the property that again, that's I wasn't there at the at the informals. But that was my understanding. I guess of Marty's report to I think you stated that in your report. It's a big difference. And I personally felt golly if in 2015 1.5 was a good price, then eight years later. Why isn't that a good price given what the other properties are selling at? OK, but thanks. Anyone else have questions? Doug, do you have anything to add to what you've written? Just wanted to highlight the comments regarding the 1.5 when that was done in the 2015 era. It was done by the trust for public lands for a separate purchase where the city was looking at price to purchase with the bike path that changed that whole concept because of the loss of access to the 92 acres. That's a big thing. In my mind. It completely changes that 1.5 because of lack of access in regard to Elks Club with due respect as noted in here. When you do a direct acreage correlation, the value comes in a little over a million for the farm. But when you appreciate that there are a number of items listed in here that the farm doesn't have. I would hope that would have some bearing and regarding the warranty deed of easements for the bike path. Specifically, the attachment in the original submission. There is a fourth paragraph and fifth paragraph in that fourth paragraph pertains to basically the 92 acres. The fifth paragraph addresses the unrestricted access area unrestricted from railroad right away. Where if there is success in a future application for a curb cut. The following modifications could be made the city would participate in and allow those. Just be very clear on that. And that fifth paragraph right now because of the lack of access to the 92 acres really only pertains to the acreage on the west side of Blanchard Brook, which is whatever, two acres minus the slopes in the wetlands. It comes down to close to about half an acre plus without having the numbers in front of me. So please keep that in mind that does change value. Other comments when you consider the property to the adjoining property to the west. The 18 acre parcel. That has some observed concerns for development. Addressing. I'll leave it at that and to ensure use that say assess value as a correlation is not correct. I have one question for clarification that I think I know the answer. But in your paragraph number one here. You say the purchase of a one half interest in the subject property according to the purchaser was contingent upon the identified financial assistance for savings pastor is specified in the district application. When you say that you don't mean that there was a formal sale contingency. You're really just saying that that was an element in in valuing valuing it. Yes, you're correct. It's an element that what I'm told by the purchaser was considered. I was not involved in that had no knowledge of it specifically for obvious reasons. Sure. But so so there's not a sales contingency where he would be able to back out of the purchase or anything like that. I don't know the answer that I don't know what that. Gotcha. What that that's fair. Thanks. Anyone else have any questions for the taxpayer? Okay. Is there a motion on move that we accept the recommendation of the committee to maintain the value set by the assessor? Okay. Is there a second? Also. Okay. Is there a discussion? I assume I'm sitting out because I wasn't here for the presentation, right? Yeah, you don't get to put on this one. Yeah, right. Mary, were you looking to raise your hand? No, I I you know me. I can always talk and I don't think it's useful. But you don't have to go back and forth. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Any any other discussion? Okay. If no discussion, all those in favor signify by saying aye. Aye. Aye. Any opposed? Okay. Thanks for coming in. Thanks. Appreciate your consideration. All right. Mr. Sherman. Does anybody need copies of this report? Okay. Mary, did Rosie write this one too? No, I did. Okay. Yeah. So I guess I would you like to present a check? I'm happy to present it. I'm happy to have you. Yeah. So again, I hope that folks had an opportunity to read the report. We visited Mr. and Mrs. Sherman's property, which is all described in here. Essentially, Mr. the Sherman's argument for reduction and their value should be was based on it's the property's location, past assessments, the drainage issues on the property and the cost of repairs. In the report, we described what we observed and honestly, it's a very nice house in a in a hard neighborhood. But it's it's it's I I enjoyed walking through your property. And thank you for giving us the opportunity to do that. We described in here what we what we saw and acknowledge the difficulties of the neighborhood that that but it feels like it is similarly appraised to those houses in need, you know, that the neighborhood disadvantages belong to all of the houses on the street. Really can't comment on what the past assessment was. And really, our goal has to be is what is today's and is that appropriate note that it is a 41 plus degree of depreciation, which is quite substantial, particularly for such a nice solid building. But a good deal of depreciation was granted through the formal process. Just as it seems like everywhere in Montpelier these days can believe that it probably are drainage issues, but didn't see any, you know, really startling our striking issues associated with drainage and described that in here.  The Sherman's offered a couple, and we kind of struggled with the two that they suggested. One hadn't been sold. I don't know if it has been now sold, but by the time we were talking about it, it hadn't been sold. And it was also a duplex. So that always makes it harder.  And then the other one that they suggested was in pretty rough shape. We understood that it had rotten sills and basically was in an uninhabitable nature, which was clearly not the case with the Sherman's property. Considered some other comparables that the assessor offered, and they made sense to us. The one thing that we did talk about is in this fun home, there is a funny little bathroom that is in what I describe as the best tubule. And I just seemed to be really pushing it to call that a bathroom. And so we suggested taking that off the off the list and reducing by half a bath. And the number that we came up with, I called our email with Marty and said, what's the amount that we should deduct based on that? And it was $1,300, which probably also talks comments on the degree of depreciation of a half bath is only worth $1,300. Some analysis was already given to what its value was. So our recommendation is that the assessed value be reduced by $1,300 to $217,800. Thanks Mary. One other thing that I'll just throw into the mix because I observed is, you know, I think we're all familiar with that row of houses along River Street. And you know, the traffic is zooming by there and everything. And access to some of those houses, you know, I would not want to have to live in those houses and have to pull out of the driveway to get onto River Street. And as it happens, this property is right on the corner of Blackwell Street. So access to this property is not by a driveway onto River Street, but it's a driveway that comes, you drive up Blackwell and it's the first driveway there. So it's a little easier to get into than some of the others. But the bathroom is just kind of, they made it, they made it for good reasons. But it's hard to see that it would be a plus factor for potential purchaser. It's basically the loss of a closet. So you have an opportunity to comment. Okay. Just going over your report, you mentioned not seeing drainage or whatever. It's because it's buried. You didn't ask why you were there, but there's the PDC piping or the, you know, the rich plastic piping underground that comes down the hill and across in front of the hill and there's a swale. As for the wet basement, if you'd been there the week before Christmas with the little flood, you'd have seen water everywhere down there and just flowing into the corners. It's finally gotten down to 40% humidity again with the humidifier running, but it's taken it two weeks to do that. The comparables. I'm not sure when 191 River Street was last visited because he finished the renovations and has been showing it. This is Steve Verbalini owns the property and he has been showing it, hasn't rented it yet. I'm not sure if he's got all the city permits yet. Yeah. And I wanted to ask Mr. Heaney about the 171-173 River Street that basically was listed after the appraisal for a third off the appraisal. Yeah, we don't base our assessments on the appraisals. We do our independent assessment. But it must mean you should be questioning the appraisals if you're coming in a third off of the just completed appraisal. I mean, I did do that with someone else in our very office, so I'm not familiar with her process. And I don't know if it sold you out. It's under deposit. It will close before the end of the month. And did it sell for that price? It did. So I need to rest too. I mean, who knows. They could have to get out. I mean, there could be 100 reasons why it's listed so low. I don't know. Well, I mean, like they was, it's in better shape than ours. It's almost twice the square footage. It has a two-car garage. We're both situated right off River Street. So I see that as being a valid comparable. But also remember we're doing values as of April 1st of 2023. So we can consider that one for April 1 of 2024. The grand list is set April 1st of every year. So if it's not a reappraisal year, how do you challenge an appraisal? You have the right to come in every year. You can appeal every year. There's a limited period of time that you can appeal every year. Make sure you hit that period. And that's precisely why, because if one of your neighbors, same house, sells significantly less than yours, then there should be an adjustment. So both of these comparables might be usable for next year? Could very well be. Absolutely. We're hoping we don't have as many appeals this year as we did last year. Well, yes. Well, I'm wondering just how any of the budgets are going to do if the state's prediction of a 20% school tax increases goes through? Yeah. They predict that every year. I know. They'll come up with something somewhere. It'll show up in the income tax instead. Okay. Do any members of the board have any questions for the appellate? Okay. Is there a motion? We didn't talk about drainage. You're right. We didn't say, although we may have, I can't, when we were standing outside. I don't think you were with us outside. I was more remarking on, we didn't, it's not like my property where I have dug drainage lines this past December. I dug drainage. Did you do that? Did you bury yours? Yeah. It actually goes down. There's a swill that goes down. It goes down. They put a storm drain inside the sidewalk. So it didn't have to go over the sidewalk to get to the storm drains. Oh, that's good. But then the snow plows, sidewalk plows that come through and turn out so much of the lawn that the water now goes around that into the street anyway. We've also had, I think since she came out two more sinkholes on Blackwell Street, that's all undermined. It's going to be worse when they build below Isabel Circle. Okay. Entertain a motion. Any discussion? All those in favor, signify by saying aye. Aye. Any opposed? Okay, the motion carries. Thanks for coming in. See you next year. Okay. That's what we're here for. Yeah. Yeah. Okay, so that is all the hearings we have tonight. And John and I had talked about doing a little mini-training about abatements. I don't know if there's appetite for that tonight or not, but we're happy to do it. Wait a minute for ten minutes. See what happens. How long was the training? Short. Hours? No. Okay. Ten minutes? Is it good minutes? Yeah. Something like that. We adjourned. And you don't, actually maybe you should stay so that if anyone wants to... Watch it, yeah. Watch it, yeah. Well, this would just be a quickie. I didn't ask Kerry if I could use our tax bill for this. What? I need to use our tax bill. It's a public record. I also, for some reason, spelled the word break wrong. I hear that. It's real, but you'll see that when you get there. Go. This is my packet requesting abatement. Yes, that's great. Give us an abatement. Take them all away, please. Okay. Oops, sorry. I'll just get on this board. I will sit in the hot seat. Thank you. Okay. All right. So, Mr. Odom, you're requesting an abatement of your taxes. I am. I'm going to start out by having you raise your right hand. You saw me affirm subject to the pains of penalty and perjury. The testimony you're about to give is the truth to the whole truth and nothing but the truth. I do. Okay. Why don't you tell us why you think you're entitled to an abatement? Okay. Well, I was a victim of the flood. It caused a lot of damage to my garage. As you can see there, I have a picture of the condition of my garage. You can see down at the bottom left that would be Kerry and I standing there in front. It was a sharp dresser. Right on. And the cost to get it fixed was an astonishingly low $6,000 but that's still $6,000 that I don't have and I feel like since I do have the right under the law to ask for an abatement based on taxes or charges upon real or personal property lost or destroyed during the tax year that I would come forward and that's I filled out this form that most people do for this process. And yes, the flood broke my garage. It cost a lot to have it fixed. I'd like a tax break.  I think I should have a $6,000 break because I spent $6,000 on my garage but that's what I think. I'm not sure how you all proceed or if you're, I guess I hear you're approaching this by quarter. But so if so, I think I should definitely get two quarters abated at least. But I would love a whole $6,000. So that's where I'm at with this. I don't know if there's any other information I can provide you. I'm not asking based on my ability to pay so I didn't bring any tax statements or any statements of my income, which I would do if I were asking under that criterion just the damage on my real estate tax year. So I've got a question. Other members of the board may have questions. When this flooding, as you put it, broke your garage, is the garage the only part of your property that was affected? My basement flooded but I didn't lose anything in there. Do you continue to be able to use the house as your homestead and your yard and that kind of thing? Yes. Okay.  I don't actually. I'm sure it's, as you can see it's a very large garage. That was my first question. What's the assessment on the garage? I don't know. And I actually will say I intentionally don't know because I'm being one of those people who isn't going to know. Just to see what you all do with it. But no, I don't know. I would imagine it's probably about a big garage, about a quarter maybe. It's a big garage. And it only cost $6,000 to fix. Which conveniently is close to my entire tax bill. Anyone else have any questions? Do you have any questions about our garage? I don't have any questions for the fake appellant, but about the process. This is a good example because how much it costs to have it fixed is not actually relevant. Right. So what we care about is the amount of time it was unusable for. The loss. But then whether they chose to fix it in a timely fashion or not, does that affect it? So if they just left it unfixed for a year, could we abate it for a year because they didn't choose to get it fixed? Or if they got it fixed right away, then we'd use just one quarter abated. I think in this particular case, we're going to consider this garage unrepairable. Figure out what the assessment is on that garage. Break that down. Is it truly a quarter of the total bill? Then we're going to bait that quarter for only from July forward when the flood actually happened. Not for the entire year, but for the rest of the year. It's going to be for the rest of the year because there's no use to it. The tax year starts July first, so it's pretty much the year. Yeah, whatever the tax year is going to be. If it is repaired, then we have to figure out, like, Ravel Rouser was gone for two months. So when they come forward, I think we're going to have to figure out the two months that they were out. What was the tax bill monthly and then consider abating for that period of time? You're going to have some information available at the meeting that I'll have when this is real. I do think you're going to have a lot of people who come in like this not fully understanding the process. In fact, I think probably almost everybody will be like that. But one of the bits of information I will have is how much, not just how much the quarterly payments are, but how much the municipal portion of those quarterly payments are. So you all can choose, for example, maybe if I'm just not choosing to fix my garage for the year, then maybe you choose to abate just two quarters, but the municipal portion only, and leave the education portion intact. And that's just going to have to be a judgment call based on, like I say, you all have the power to base abatement on anything you want. And you can take into consideration if you wanted to the impact on the city. Why wouldn't we also look at the education portion? Well, it's just a question of what the city is going to be able to afford over the next year. I mean, you can, you don't have to. It's just another arrow in the quiver, I guess, to just look at the municipal portion. So the city is still on the hook for the education tax? Right. We still have to pay that. The city still has to pay it. Right. We have to actually come up with the money. It's not just money that we lose, but then we actually have to pull money out of our own pocket, ready to check to the state for the education. Unless this bill that's in there passes, which probably will, but we don't know for sure yet, and only under certain conditions. It's not everything. So we also might want to think about, because there are very specific conditions written into that bill, under which we will get reimbursed for it. So we might want to align our decisions with that. I put in the abatement books, I put a suggested general approach you could take to this. It should be near the beginning if Sarah did get it in there. And that's based on the conversations I had with Carol Dawes and Barry. They were thinking of the same kind of thing. I don't have my own copy of the book with me. You can see how I found it. Yeah, there you go. It's like the fourth or fifth page in abatements related to 2023 flooding storm damage. That's just a potential guide you could use in general. There shouldn't be considered rules. There shouldn't be considered anything you want to use at all. But even if you did want to use it, it shouldn't be considered rules, because there are going to be any rules in there. As for VLCT, we can't lock you guys down on any kind of rules like us down. I'm on this one, too, and I'll probably be voting on these myself, because I'm not quite, well, I don't know yet, but anyway. Would it help to have a copy of the record card for each one of these appellants? For each one of those, yeah. I'll print them out. And you're probably going to need that break out. Yeah, that'll be there. As you know, the detail that'll tell you what the bar and the assessment on the barn is. That would be good, because I don't think many of them are going to bring that even if I nudge them, too. We'll get something like this in advance. Yes. The record card? Yeah, I will get the record cards. When's our next? Do we have a VCA next week? Next week. VCA, yeah. I still don't understand why we wouldn't be abating the education tax. To not put the city on the hook for paying that out of pocket, basically. Is that what you're supposed to do for the property owner? There's no supposed to. That's been a big point of conversation with us. And with Barry is how do you get enough abatements, fair abatements to people without breaking the back of the city, basically. So one approach was sort of theoretically, you know, a defensible way would be for the city to focus on the city's portion of the tax bill. Do they have an appeal right to the state on the education tax portion? Yeah, there's not abatements. But it's totally discretionary. And that's one of the things. This is the statute is in the binder, but it says. Section 1535 says the board may abate in whole or in part taxes, interests or collection fees. And then it goes down from there. But we could say. We feel bad for you, but the city's in such bad shape financially that we just can't afford to give you an abatement. Or we could say that same thing that we want to protect the city's funds and not abate the education portion or. But we might change our minds. We might go more if if this bill passes because there is language in the bill that says if if it passes, the town can go back. Oh, that's interesting. So I was about to ask that. So would they would we have another opportunity to go back to that? I'll have to. I think the bill says that but I add to the abatement amount. But the problem is that speculation. It does. It's not a law right now. And whatever it says today will be different tomorrow. One thing I want to be clear about just so there's not any question with the conversations that I've had with other folks. The conversations that they had in Barrie and the conversations I had with Carol Dawes. Nobody's going to argue that a place that's a 100% loss shouldn't be abated 100% of their tax bill. So that's I mean I don't think anybody's anybody's questioning that. Talking about there's also land value. Well, yeah. Our cards have land value. Right. You can split that up. Land value get abated at all if it's still there. Yeah, well that's that would be the board's call. That's a good question. It's a good question. Just say it's your house. That's a house that's that's been totally destroyed. You have no houses. You have no reasonable use of the house.  Until you've got got a new house on it. That's that's that's a debate to have right. It can be a liability because now you've got this big moldy building that you have to dispose of so it's an additional cost. You take the building down if you're in a flood zone. The development crew is going to be in there saying you got to go up seven feet. You got to do all that. It changes what someone can do. But when you said 100%. So we so there had been a discussion of abate municipal but maybe not to school. Again, that's our decision. This board's decision. When you said there's no question that 100% should be abated. Are you saying school and well the question could arise. But the people I've been speaking to there was no question that the entire thing would mean school. Once you get to that, then why don't you do both? I mean, how do you. Well, and that's where you have to get some sort of general hopefully a general standard and the first the first meeting there's fewer people on the docket. So that we can find our groove a little bit and hopefully by after hearing five of them if they take 10 minutes and bury, they're going to try to keep into five minutes. But you know, if we keep into 10 minutes or 10 or 15, we can do five of them and these will these will go a lot differently than the assessment hearing. So I think they're really fast. Yeah, because, you know, someone says my my building downtown was wiped out. It was vacant for three months and here they repair bells. Yeah, three of the first four are already back. So they were out for, you know, three or four months. We can figure out what the loss, you know, what their taxes are for those monthly. We did agree that we were going to do the hearings but not make a decision until the end. Well, see, that's an interesting question because the way we've always done them is we've never gone into a liberative session. We've just had the discussion and done it right then and there. But we could also go into a liberative session at the end and take care of all of them. I don't know. We agree that we were going to do because we're concerned about knowing all of the facts about everything. Okay, because there's so many similar. It's likely to be so many similar situations. We want to be fair to everybody who's in a similar circumstance. And the law may pop in and then we'd have a different result. Yeah, they don't move that fast. And then as you think about these buildings, like buildings downtown, well, yeah, exactly. The first floor could have been totally unusable but offices and apartments upstairs still be paying rent the entire time. For that matter, I don't know. The businesses on the first floor could have been paying rent the entire time. And we've heard there's been one at least in the news that is absolutely paying rent is not occupying and they are asking for an abatement. And so one of the things, you know, I've wondered about how much can we tweak that? We'll give you an abatement but you have to split it with your tenants. I don't think we can do that. I mean, that's a little scary, but there is a fairness thing there. If they're getting rent, then they're not losing the use of the function of the building. So we need to make sure we ask about are you continuing to receive rent? Yeah, great point. Yeah. This is a very aggressive schedule we've set up here because we really want to try to squeeze it into four meetings and it may not work. We're already having to add a fifth one as it is. So some of these folks may need to be bumped. We've already got a fifth one with three on it. So these are going to be treated as like we have done as one meeting that we recess. But now that we've created a fifth date, that will be its own meeting. Why can't that be? Because we've already warned. Okay, gotcha. The one big one there. So we'll have to learn it separately. Still, I think it's good to try to push it because I think people are ready to be done. I think it will be really wise to explain to each person. And I don't know how to do this because it takes time. But people need a good explanation of how this works. We shouldn't assume they understand what in the world we're doing. And I don't know if you can do that because people wander in and out. It'd be lovely if you could do it once each meeting. Yeah. John, when does Barry start? I'm not sure. I thought they had already started, but apparently not. I'm not sure. Is there someone from VLCT that has an online training video? There's some online stuff. There is a guide to abatement. We can make sure that everybody gets it. I've heard that a few times. It's possible. Sarah has already been sending that out to people. But if not, I'll check with her and have her send them to everybody. That could be helpful for them. It's a little bit thick to read, but it does cover everything. If it's not 100% loss, do anything with the land portion? I think that's your all's call. We should be standard for everybody. I think it's however you want to approach it. I mean, if you still have the second and third floor or whatever, the first floor is gone, is there any effect on the land? Probably not. Probably not. It's the building that's affected by the damage. I would say probably not. I'm just saying we're probably looking at the building value and the percentage of that that's destroyed or not. We've had one of these, and this is a long time ago. I remember years ago, Bob, you may remember this too, where there was a property out by Three Mile Bridge Road that the house burned down, I think. And I don't remember what we decided to do about the land value or if we just wiped out the building value. That was two houses on one, I believe. Okay. Is that the value of the house? Five minutes. No, I'm serious. There's lots of math, particularly to get a complicated situation. And it's interesting because we've never thought about this in this much detail before when it's just been the one off here and there. It's been very informal and just sort of collaborative and what sounds fair and moved from there. Will we have recommendations from the assessor? I'm looking at the first four. I know the first one, that's an income issue. That's going to be pretty, I mean, that's pretty kind of dry. The second and third, I think we figure out how long those properties were not used because those were totally unusable during the flood period. Same with Paul LaFalle, his apartments. So the first floor of all those? The upper levels. The whole thing for Becherra's were unusable. Oh, really? Yeah. Well, you know, the movie theater and then I think sometimes, you know, the moisture, the one to the left of the movie theater there, he couldn't use the second floor either just because there was just so much moisture and then you've got workers in there.  He was out for four months. Let's talk about four months worth of abatement. So are we going to just do this retrospectively? So as of the date that we make a decision, are we also talking about doing it prospectively? There are some folks that are probably not back in. Lucky Boardman, I don't think he's fully back. So on a case-by-case basis, quite a few of these, I think Scott Cameron, he's already back in business. He is? I think so. Isn't he? Getting close. I'm trying to explain there. Some of Lucky Boardman's I don't believe are fully back up so that'll be a good question to ask him. That's also choices. Yeah, right. What projects you choose? Sometimes it is, but if his business, I mean, his business, the building is back, it's put back together, whether he has it rented out or not, that's not up to us. But as far as the repairs, if they're done, you know, then I think you stop it as when it becomes rentable. And so that's another one of the policy decisions we need to make. And so it's a question that we need to ask. Are you, is it rentable or effective when or to discover that? Like a case like that. Maybe we should meet two other cases in the front, but so if you've got a project up front that would start before the flood, after the flood you go back and keep doing that project, that's your choice and you don't do your stores in the first floor? Yeah. You know. What if your choice is not to do any repairs for six months or so? You don't have the value of the property. This case that we got here, if this person had decided not to fix their garage and came to us and said, well it's, it cost $6,000 fixed, but I'm not going to pay that. So it's unusable and it's going to be unusable forever, so I'm just lost by garage. So they come seeing me on April 1st and we adjust them. Or what if they say, okay, we have somebody who fixed their garage a month after the flood. And so when else who fixed their garage? Six months after the flood. Is there a, I chose to wait six months to fix my garage. Yeah. So do I then get these two before when I could have fixed it in that right way? There may not be a choice. Maybe you couldn't find someone to do the work. Right. Well, right. I don't think there's a choice in this. But there could be. But at some point we're also creating a disincentive to get work done because why in the world should I do it if I don't have to pay. Do we, what kind of proof do we need if someone says, well, I tried for, you know, six months and couldn't get somebody. They have the burden of proof. And so they have to make us believe that that's the case. Well, I think we have a commercial name over here that's got a lot of his properties fixed up pretty quick. So we can ask, you know. That's actually a really good point because there are huge differences. We've seen some landlords who fixed up right away and others who still haven't fixed it yet. And I don't know why that is. But do we give them the benefit of sitting? The benefit of the doubt. Yeah. Yeah. But for three months or six months or a year, I mean, that's the reason prospective or retrospective. Well, one thing that I know Barry's doing, and I think it may have it up to two quarters now if they're so late, is that we're going to look at a set amount of time. We're going to hear abatements on these two quarters because we're into the second quarter. And if you want to talk about abating, you know, later quarters, petition us again later in the year and come back. Again, a policy decision we make. We can do it prospectively. We have that authority. Right. Right. Yeah. That's the reason I'm asking. So is that something we're agreeing to that we're only going to do it for the first two quarters and you have to come back and see us? I'm inclined to say, yeah. I recommend that. Yeah. We want to get... We're going to be making our decisions in January. Right. Isn't that the... Is that considered the last quarter until you get to April? Well, the next one... We're talking about the fiscal quarters. Yeah, I was talking about the fiscal. Yeah, so we're... We just ended the second quarter. Right. The third quarter? Well, me or... At that point, I still think we're... Enough places are really back. Repair that if... I don't think we can have someone say in January, well, I'm sure I'm not going to be... I'm still going to be wiped out for the whole... This whole quarter. I'm doing this from a... I guess not a practical but an experienced thing because I have a property in Waterbury that's got it in July and then was hit again two weeks ago. Oh, Jesus. So it's hard getting people in there to do the work. Can we email for a homeowner? Maybe a big landlord has some line-up of people that have always been working for them. Individuals. Sorry. I want some tips with you. I think that's true. We do that. I'm thinking about people who haven't had heat until I hope you guys have heat, finally. But I mean, some people haven't had... It was heat when we got our furnace in. That has nothing to do with not trying to get it done. Right. Exactly. So a lot of this is going to just come down to hearing what the person has to say and do we feel like they're being forthright with us and does it seem reasonable? I think that we could decide that we're not going to be abating anything in the future. We're only going to be abating anything from the past. And if somebody wants a further abatement, they come back to us. We could say that's a policy that we're going to follow with everybody. And I like that idea. Makes sense. Yeah. And we can, when they come in, ask them, what is it you're looking for? Like I said, Lucky Boardman's very generic and I want tax relief. Like what are you looking for? How long have you been out? I don't think we're going to get any details from him just based on the conversations I've had. Yeah. But someone... You could certainly imagine, and I haven't read all these yet, but you can certainly imagine someone like this tax payer just said, I'd like a tax break. Yes. But... That's pretty typical. Yeah. Yeah. But you can imagine somebody coming in saying that the cost of the repairs to my building was $40,000. My tax bill for the year is $8,000. So I want my whole tax bill wiped out and I'm still not made whole. Right? Yeah. No, that's what we... Do you think we're going to hear that? Talk about Johnson. Example. Yeah. High house. So again, a policy decision, but it strikes me that we're not trying to make them good for the cost of repairs. No. We're trying to make them... Yeah. But that may be something we need to explain in advance. Yeah. It's not our job to help them recover or recoup their costs. And just another... On that same point, some people may not be able to get the repairs in the two months or the three months or two quarters because they don't have the cash and they didn't get money from FEMA yet or they didn't get money from their insurance. So there's a lot of reasons people can't get their place together. Or there's no heating. You can't get a heating person to come out. Right. I think it's going to be hard for a lot of people to understand and I think we're kind of stuck with that and that's part of why I went with this route on this is I think it's going to be fairly typical. Yeah. It's hard. Yeah. Because this is just a small part of everything they're dealing with. Right. But yeah, and people are going to say, well, you know, I haven't got... My insurance doesn't cover it or I think people who haven't had heat for six months, I think they're entitled to something. I don't know what it should be, but you're not getting the full... Right. They're not... If you're living in a house and you don't have heat, you're not getting the full value of your house. Yeah. Does that will cause your bottom to fall down? Yeah. The economy. We know exactly. We have an amount for the heating systems in there too. Yes. We have that on-card. It's, you know, the assessed value versus what is going to cost you to put one in. Yeah. Yeah, okay. Yeah, the interesting decisions are going to be the process and ethical ones. Like I think setting a timeline like we are smart and then the kids are either key issues that we should define so when people come in, we can at least say this is what we're doing. We should have been tied those up. I mean, I think the question about are we going to owe the education taxes or just... So the length of that would be for people in their home or it's their home and they're out of there and can't live there, I'd give them the whole thing. But if that's not the situation and looking at the city situation maybe we would just talk about the city portion. Very. So I hear that. An element of what I'm thinking of is surely there will be some state relief on the education side and I'm a little bit worried that if we do something that that may prevent them from reimbursing us or treating us differently. So I'm wondering about saying right now we're just going to try to do the municipal side. We invite you to come back on the school side or is that just getting too... No. That's just taken... Complicated. Really complicated. I see what you're saying though. Makes a lot of sense. But I don't know. Does that make the state say oh well since this towns are innovating in the education tax maybe we don't need to reimburse the towns? Yeah. Well they wouldn't if we weren't activating them. Then yeah. And then people get less than they otherwise would have. So if... So we do a thing? We do a thing? Everything or just people who just residential, not commercial? The education tax is really over as a residential commercial. So there's very specific conditions in the bill if this is the way it passes, if it passes at all. And it's a 50% or greater loss in value to the primary structure. Loss of use by the property owner for 60 days or more. Loss of access for the primary structure for 60 days or more. Or if it's condemned. And that's when the state will reimburse the towns? That's when the state would reimburse the education taxes. So in this case, for the garage there would be no reimbursement from the state. If this bill were to pass in the form it's introduced in most of these commercial buildings because it's not going to be anywhere near the person. Is it AND? That's a list of AND? I thought that was a list of OR. I think it was ORs. That's an OR number. It's a 541. Oh it has a number now. Yeah. One or more of the following. So if you lost use of it or access to the utilities for 60 days or more. But yeah, if the first floor was unusable but the rest of it was then that's not 50% or more. So that's a working criteria. We could use that and then if it changes it changes. But for now we can use it and since we're going to decide things later by that time the bill may have passed. So we could decide we're only going to abate school taxes that are going to be eligible for reimbursement. Yes. It also occurs to me that if a lot of the applications are as sketchy as the one from Mr. Me. We need to take a lot of notes and hang on to them because it's going to be a month or five weeks from the time of testimony for some people to a decision. We might want to create a checklist. I was thinking the same thing.  Go through the list. You might want a checklist. It's in the bill but then it's also how many months? I mean we need time period. Checklist of the whole family. Use. Well I guess that's all of the bill. Yeah. What questions are we going to ask each person and just go check them off down the box and do it. We might be able to make it a little quicker again. I mean the process we're talking the way we're looking at it is going to drag this out a lot more than I would have thought but working from a checklist that we're just sort of going down and asking questions could have the effect of tightening that right back up. And in fact telling people that we're using a checklist and they could come in prepared which is hard in the next week but Yeah. Yeah I could give them what our questions are going to be. So do you feel you know enough to take a shot at the checklist and then circulate it? I probably want a double check with you so there's another set of years. Yeah. Maybe we can have a conversation sometime before next week or before next week's meeting rather. Sure. You don't want to leave it just in my ears. So also this bill that I was saying is only about education tax abatements I don't think it's the bill that Connor and Kate were talking about the other day which seemed to include a bunch of other things. I don't know what that bill is. But it sounds like it's the same. I don't know but so we don't so there's a question about which one might actually happen and Who's the sponsor for the one that you listen to? It's just a whole bunch of sponsors and it's in ways and ways including Emily But that makes sense it's just the end side but you know what we could ask Connor or Kate to talk with Ledge Council about what are some of the things they thought about and they could help us develop a list. We could try to find a backdoor getting Yeah. So we would have any information just in case. Yeah. It's a good idea. Because they're thinking about this Ledge Council. 50% are greater loss in value of the primary structure loss of use for 60 days or more. Loss of access for 60 days condemnation. Yeah that's vote. So it's the same thing so that's good. Is that the $84 million? Yeah. What's the bill number on that? It didn't have a bill as of yesterday. Yeah. I do like you Ledge Council we could figure out a way to take advantage of that. I think that's more limited than the bill. So how about I get in touch with Connor and ask him if he can get that Ledge Council to help us figure out a way to backdoor that. That would be great. Thank you. When did this start? Week after next. 18th Ben right? It's not next week? No next week we got two more of the assessment for one bunch one swarm of assessments and then another one. We got the Jacobs and Wilner. A few of them were like three or four of them. And they we passed something waiting the need for inspections. That's why we didn't need to inspect. Good. I think we're done. Yeah. So did we recess back at close at 7.15? We will recess now. Okay. 7.48


بسم الله الرحمن الرحيم الحمد لله رب العالمين ثم الصلاة والسلام على أشرف الأنبياء محمد وآله الطيبين الطاهرين اللهم صل على محمد وآله محمد أسلام عليكم ورحمة الله وبركاته نحن بخير لله سبحانه وتعالى لدينا أردت أن نتحدث about the verses of the Holy Qur'an and the narrations of Ahl al Bayt عليهم السلام نحن نتحدث عن صورة الحمد بسم الله الرحمن الرحيم أنا الحمد لله رب العالمين أنا الرحمن الرحيم مالك يا وم الدين إن شاء الله في this episode we will discuss إياك نعبد وإياك نستعين you alone do we worship and you alone do we turn for help if we look at this translation you alone do we worship and you alone do we turn for help one might argue where did we find we don't see this in the Arabic word alone I mean as the Arabic translation there is no Arabic word in it that translates into alone where do we find this when we bring إياك نعبد well within the Arabic grammar we worship you but when إياك نعبد وإياك نعبد do we worship that means the only when the word comes first within the Arabic grammar that we study in seminary that illustrates that it is that alone is there when إياك comes first that you نعبدو when Allah comes first and then نعبدو the action the فعل comes later إياك means to Allah you alone نعبدو we worship that alone comes into existence that we only worship you Allah and we only come to you for help that is as far as the Arabic grammar it's concerned and why Allah مفقول إياك came first and then نعبدو which is us فعل and فعل came after that that becomes a translation of that that you alone do we worship and you alone do we turn for help and also one of the commentators was he was stating a good point that if we say نعبدو ك نعبدو means we worship ك refers to Allah when we say نعبدو ك نعبدو first we are discussing ourselves we are mentioning ourselves first نعبدو و and then ك we worship you but قرآن it's bringing إياك first Allah comes then we come into this even to statements and within this first Allah is there you know Allah is there infinite before and before and after but within the even structure of the sentence it's first Allah سبحانه وتعالى mentally everything is Allah first and then us we can't I mean it's not nice to say first نعبدو ك why to bring even إياك no نعبدو when we say then okay we have a priority we came first and then Allah we worship you that which was I thought to be interesting for me to share with you after stating that all praise belongs to Allah سبحانه وتعالى الحمد لله رب العالم and he is the lord of the worlds رب العالمين مالك الرحمن الرحيم all magnificence all beneficent all merciful master of the day of judgment and مالك يوم الدين can we worship anything other than Allah سبحانه وتعالى intellectually logically we can't if he is the one that start everything and we start everything with him and he is the initiator he is the creator he is the generator everything starts with him and he is all beneficent all merciful also he is the master and the lord of all the worlds and then he is also the master of the day of judgment what else whom else can we worship than Allah سبحانه وتعالى it's not logical to partner someone else and worship someone else besides him and this was the message of all the prophets we see that all the prophets that came they would say we have one example of a chapter 23 verse 23 where Allah says أعبد الله مالك من إلهين غيره worship Allah you have no other God beside him when Prophet Noah came Prophet Abraham Prophet Solomon and all the other prophets that came within the verse if you just search this أعبد الله مالك من إلهين غيره you will see all the prophets that they came and they were sent by Allah سبحانه وتعالى to guide people they came and they discussed this verse and they said أعبد الله they came to bring people to worship Allah سبحانه وتعالى you have no other God God beside him so أعبد الله سبحانه وتعالى it is logical that again since we went through all of these process him only we should worship and none beside him then this is the purpose why we have been created within the Quran there are 3-4 purposes mentioned while Allah سبحانه وتعالى created us one of those reasons why Allah سبحانه وتعالى created us it is for us to worship him chapter 51 verse 56 where Allah سبحانه وتعالى states وما خلقت الجن والإنسة إلا ليعبدون I did not create the jinn and the humans except means the only reason that I created the jinn an ends ghost and human being I did not create the jinn and the humans except that they may worship me so I bother to Allah سبحانه وتعالى reason why we have been created us and the jinn which if we think of it that this is why we have been created and this is the purpose behind our creations creation by Allah سبحانه وتعالى we won't go left and right we continue spending our time every minute of our time worshiping Allah سبحانه وتعالى and Ibadah to Allah سبحانه وتعالى so Insha'Allah in this episode or the next episode we will discuss what do we mean by Ibadah do we mean we should just sit on our prayer mats all day long and all night long to just keep praying and praying and supplicating and praying Insha'Allah we will discuss that if this is by the definition of Ibadah so for us it is very important to be عبد الله to be a true person that is doing Ibadah to Allah worshiping Allah سبحانه وتعالى none by Allah سبحانه وتعالى and all of our Ibadah must be toward Allah سبحانه وتعالى nothing by name you might say شيخ of course everything that we do from our Salah from our Zakat from our Hajj and all of our Wajibat that we do we're doing it for Allah سبحانه وتعالى true but one can argue that when we are doing our Ibadah do we have our intention is our intention sincere for Allah سبحانه وتعالى خالص and مخلص sincerely for Allah سبحانه وتعالى or we have someone else in mind I'll give you an example for example we are praying in a mosque no one is there and we are reading the Salah unfortunately some people pray their Salah quickly and fast they just go through the Salah through the verses through the akkad quickly they just want to move on بسم اللحمه ورحمه ت obrigado وبرحمكم برفة اللهم but as while they're praying and they are worshipping Allah سبحانه وتعالى with their intention as soon as somebody walks in to the masjid و ربما هذا المسجد الذي يطلق في المسجد المسجد الذي يطلق في المسجد الذي يطلق في المسجد يوجد some kind of business with him و he wants to show him that I am sincere و I am a good Muslim و I pray my prayers good سرلي as soon as that person walks in he says بسم الله الرحمن الرحيم well this worship was it only يا كنا عبود that we only we you alone do we worship or my tone my speed changed because someone else walked in and not put part in this with someone else or when I do something good and I do it I am waiting for some for people to appreciate me and to acknowledge me well in that case is not it's not sincere for Allah when we say يا كنا عبود you alone we worship and you alone do we turn for help and no one else not my work after my work before my work every intention that I have it's completely detached from everyone except Allah سبحانه وتعالى I only do it sincerely and purely and genuinely for the sake of Allah سبحانه وتعالى and no one else so the action plan will be that we should start analyzing and diagnosing our actions to observe ourselves think ponder everything we do think and testing our intention how much of this intention how much percentage was for the sake of Allah سبحانه وتعالى and how much percentage was for me to either get acknowledgement for me to get some kind of certificate for me to get something in return for me to be appreciated by people for me to get something well that much percentage we have according to a hadith that Allah said if you did something for me and also for other people I give even my share and my portion to other people let them bless you let them reward you let them give you what you were thinking so everything that we do that is very very important before we start our intention to be sincerely for the sake of Allah سبحانه وتعالى something sincerely for Allah سبحانه وتعالى especially our Abadat Salah, Psalm, Zakat, Hajj Homs all the other Wajibat first it's when we have that intention and when we start Abad we're doing something for the sake of Allah سبحانه وتعالى we won't be crushing through it we won't do a very bad job at it no we make sure we do something we do our best in it we are doing something for our creator so that's number one we started with we think about it throughout what we are doing throughout this affair or endeavor we keep reminding that this is for the sake of Allah سبحانه وتعالى at the end of it even after that we might start a project or endeavor started with and we are thinking and then through it we have and at the end we have but after 2-3 days 5 days we talk to people and we start showing off we start having show off to people that I did this or my Abadat it might be interesting to say this joke a person was praying and he was praying very nicely in his سبحانه ربي العظيم وبحمده ربي صلى الله عليه وسلم سبحان الله سبحانه وتعالى he was returning to Salah because people were watching him they said wow masha'Allah he is praying very nicely and his pronunciation and his being humble and he is surely doing it for the sake of Allah سبحانه وتعالى while he was in his prayer he paused and he looked toward them he wants to show off basically basically his Salah is invalidated and also none of them is accepted by Allah سبحانه وتعالى because he was showing off to people so when we say we only worship you do we only you alone do we worship and you alone do we turn for help we should believe in it and we should act upon that everything we do it's for the sake of Allah سبحانه وتعالى and we read in the Holy Quran that رسول الله is our role model he is we read also in تشاهد واشهدوا أن محمدا عبده ورسوله رسول الله محمد صلى الله عليه وسلم first he is a abd he is a true abd slave of Allah سبحانه وتعالى that his abad is genuine and he is abd first and then warasul so the level of being abd is higher than رسول than a messenger واشهدوا أن محمد عبده ورسوله because when he prayed يجعك نعبد ويجعك نستعين everything was for the sake of Allah سبحانه وتعالى and none but Allah سبحانه وتعالى so the action plan will be and insha'Allah the rest of the discussion will come in our next episode which will be is about in what kind of abad we mean and what we need to do to be complete for the sake of Allah سبحانه وتعالى but the action plan for this episode again we will remind ourselves when we say again there's a reason why every day we repeat again and again and again it's because to remind us who we are worshipping who we are truly worshipping and who we are returning back for help that should be Allah سبحانه وتعالى again you alone do we worship and you alone do we turn this should become every minute of our life that everything that we do it's for the sake of Allah سبحانه وتعالى and insha'Allah we will say that okay abad we are discussing we will discuss it in the next episode we will conclude this episode and begging Allah سبحانه وتعالى to hasten your opinions and may Allah be with you which is the most important دعا بسم الله الرحمن الرحيم اللهم كل وليك الحجة ابن الحسان صلواتك عليه وعلى آبائه في هذه الساعة وفي كل ساعة وليا وحافظة وقائدا وناصرة ودليلا وعينا حتى تسكنه واردك طوعا وتمتعه فيها طويلة رحمتك يا أرحم الرحمين


Headphones have computer chips in them that take in real-world sounds and convert them to digital sounds and use that for active noise-canceling and also playing your awesome music. Engineers bring the world to life studying engineering at the University of Auckland.


The Copic Wildflowers class over at art-classes.com is an intermediate level mini class where we're going to be exploring five different types of wildflowers. We're mostly going to be exploring our markers though and the different ways that your marker can be laid down on the paper to create different shapes, different types of flowers, and each of these techniques that you'll be learning in the class can be used of course in creating lots of other flowers on your own once you're finished with class. They're valuable techniques that will help you as a colorist. Each video is shown in real time with voiceover explaining how to do each one of the techniques. You can also choose whether to follow the colors that are listed in the free pre-class lesson or use markers that you already have and make your lavender perhaps more of a pinky purple rather than a blueish purple and adapt these techniques to create all kinds of different flowers as well that are similar to the structure of the flowers chosen for this class. I hope you'll join me to do some wildflower coloring for cards. The link is in the description below. I hope to see you in class very soon.


So that kind of gets into this last point, where we're all going to pretend that we're Reggie, or any major, major upper echelon PR person at Nintendo. And we're going to come up with how each of us would pitch ourselves or pitch the switch to a major third party company of our choosing for a game that they have in development for beyond this year, give them a pitch to bring it to switch. Because as we know, this year we know, we pretty much can close the book on what third party games are getting this year. And this is your one for the switch. So let's start with Eric. What company are you targeting? I know what you're thinking. Just do it. Yeah, in Madden. Okay. Go on after Madden. Yeah. All right. So now you're in the boardroom with them, and you know that they already are kind of jaded against you. Yeah. They've had bad success on Nintendo. No. How are you going to, maybe through their own fault, but whatever. Right. Even more reasons to pitch them. Exactly. Sell it. Yeah. Sell it to me. I'm EA. Sell me. Sell me on Switch for next year. Right. If you guys were to bring an actual full, normal, created game of Madden. To the Nintendo Switch. I mean, if you take a look at some of our other games, we got games that are all pacing the sales of the console itself, which we are working on bringing up our console production. But Mr. Nintendo, I can't bring a full version of our game. Your console is not powerful enough. Counter punch. Well, that's what would come up. They'd mentioned it's not part. We can't give you a non-parody version. Look at what we're doing with FIFA. That's probably the best we can do. Look at Breath of the Wild. That's way more intricate than any of your games. Breath of the Wild is a single player game. You're talking about a multi-player game here. So it's Splatoon 2? I feel you're way more prepared than we are for this. Yeah. Yeah. I made up this topic. No, I'm just saying, these are the arguments that EA is going to have against. Look at arms. Okay, sorry Nintendo, you finish your statement. I mean, we are working on our console to get their production ramped up to meet demand. You give us a good game? We can promise you, they'll sell. So Mr. Nintendo, we think there's some potential. Because FIFA 17, 18, whatever it is this year is coming out. 19? I don't even know what they call it. FIFA 18. No, it is FIFA 18. Okay. So FIFA 18 is coming out. So let's hit pause because I don't agree with you that a market is there. I'm kind of on the side that you brought up. Look, we have a game that's also on the console. You have a Nintendo game also on the console. We haven't seen any major third party successes on your system yet. There was no major third party successes that were multi-platform games on the Wii U. So we're not ready to fully commit like this. So let's just wait till FIFA, see how FIFA does. If I can help Eric out a little bit here. I have one point that might be. Sure. Cut, right? Yeah, go for it. The switch is bringing back a lot of last Nintendo gamers. And what that means is gamers that have been with Nintendo for a long time and have gone away. Now that means they're adult gamers and most adult gamers out there are looking to play more adult style games. They don't necessarily want to play Mario. Sure, a lot of people will. And that'll be probably a major attracting point of the console. But what about the folks that, yeah, they want Mario, but now they also want something more adult. They don't want the cutesy stuff anymore. They want to play sports when they're watching the game. They want to after the game, you know, set up a tournament with their friends and beat them on Madden on their switch, wherever they are. Maybe even during the party or during the commercials. And I think that's a fantastic new opportunity that's presented itself now with the switch that wasn't there with our previous generations. I also want to point out too that we basically have free advertisement because you look at soccer players, they're playing the switch. You got football players playing the switch. They're posting videos from their locker rooms and stuff and planes and travels. We're using pictures of NFL locker rooms with the switch. Okay, so maybe not NFL. I know FIFA's for sure. I know soccer for sure. And we have FIFA coming to switch. And I'm sure if you have men coming to switch, you're going to have NFL players. I don't know. NFL players play men. Yeah, but you got to remember Xbox is a partnership with the NFL for advertising. Whenever you hear about video games in Madden with the NFL, it's always with the next box. That's because you don't put anything else out. PlayStation 4 is the most high-selling platform. Why don't we hear about that? I don't know that's your fault. It's not my fault. I don't control Xbox's partnership with the NFL. We don't have a partnership with Xbox like that. No, but you have a partnership with the NFL too. You remember what system that Russell Wilson bought this entire offensive line? Xbox ones. See, if you're going to argue for an NFL game, you should do your history. Plus, I happen to know how to know you religiously followed the NFL. And Russell Wilson played for Wisconsin, right? Aren't you a Wisconsin fan? I'm done. I am done. No, what I'm saying, Mr. Nintendo and Mr. Nintendo number two over here is you brought up some good points. It's bringing back gamers that might want to play this stuff, but I don't see it in the sales data yet. So I'm not hearing an argument for taking the risk. Why shouldn't I just wait and see how FIFA does? Because you didn't make a proper FIFA port. Well, to be fair, I got my dev units late and we would not have the time to get our engines to run on the system in the first place to get a game out this year. Yeah, but that doesn't mean that it can be the only means of measuring whether it's feasible. Well, I mean, there's other third-party games coming, isn't there? The only thing that you should rely on. Necessarily third-party sports games that are, you know, correct.  NBA 2K18 is coming out. I mean, we can even see how that does. There is that. But there is no other NFL game possible because you have the naming and all the other rights for it. To be fair, if we never release an NFL property on Switch, they can release their own NFL property on Switch. Any platform that Madden is not on, they're allowed to have their own NFL brandy game. All right, 2K. Here we go. Oh, you want 2K? Okay. No, no, no, no. Madden's coming. Madden's coming. Don't go to 2K. Yeah, right. We don't need NFL 2K185 coming back. Yeah. Because they're going to release that at 20 bucks on Switch and we're screwed. Everyone's buying a Switch. Yeah. So there's your argument. There's the argument. We've got to go pay money to 2K. Well, thank you for giving me my ammunition. No, you can bring back NFL Blitz. Yes. And no consoles exclusively. Yes. I like it. Yeah, own NFL Blitz? I don't remember who owns NFL Blitz. No, it was Midway. Midway. It was. I don't know who owns it now. Oh, okay.  They did. Is that NFL Street or something? Yeah. I thought they made one at one point. And it ended up not being very good. All right. Argument heard. And here's the thing. I'm not being mistreated. That's all. No, to help you out. I like, obviously, we both want Madden to come really hardcore. Yeah. I think that there's some things that want to brought up that I feel like EA should consider. And that's the fact that the Switch is selling out. And by the end of 2018, we could be talking about a 25 million install base. We could be talking about in less than two years having half of the install base that the PlayStation 4 has. Like, that's a crazy number of people for you to, for a year to be like, hey, we don't want Madden being served to those people. And the way you said it, too, though, is that I really didn't realize and didn't recognize that if they don't have an NFL thing, they can go to 2K and go, hey, look at your other sports games you're selling. Yeah. Bring us a thing. We don't have an NFL licensed game. Yeah. I think the fear there would always be if 2K ended up doing that, I think the moment a 2K partnership is announced for it is the moment that EA says, ah, no, no, no, no. Because they don't want 2K coming back at all with an NFL licensed game. But the only problem is they can come back with the absolute wrappiest version of their life. Of course they can. We'll give you a wee Madden again. Yeah. But no, I think that Madden is actually possible next year. Only because I do think that, because EA stated in the past that Frostbite can run on Switch. That's kind of the biggest point. You didn't know that, but that you could bring up is that EA has already publicly stated that that engine Madden runs on can run on Switch. Whether it can run completely, I don't know if they said it could run. Interesting. You know what else runs on Frostbite? Star Wars Battlefront. Nice. Yeah. So it's a very interesting prospect.  Because at this point, what EA does on Nintendo platforms is like beating a drum. They're going to release FIFA. It's not going to sell as well as they hope, and they're going to use it as they're going to have to release games. Or it's going to sell better, and then they have a reason to bring the full version over next year. They have a reason to finish porting Frostbite over. Because I think right now, EA is afraid of commitment to Nintendo because they've been burned. And I argue, obviously, that part of the burn is their own fault. Are we giving you the... You always got to say part because Nintendo has burned all the third parties. Oh, right. Yeah. So they have a lot of logical reason to be like, why would we put 100% effort into something that's not going to sell anyways? That's always a valid argument until Nintendo does it otherwise. And they've failed to prove otherwise for a few generations now. So, beyond their handhelds. But again, the handhelds usually don't get full versions of Madden anyway. All right, 5G.  Well, I didn't have much cooked up here, so I'm just going to kind of shoot from the hip. Oh, that's what I did. That's what I'm doing too, for mine. Just wait until you get to me. I mean, we're kind of shooting for the obvious ones here, but I think that's the point that we need to be targeting the big folks. So I'm thinking we got to target Call of Duty. So Call of Duty, not very successful on the Vita because it was a crappy version. Now, one thing I think would be very interesting and would fit very well is because Nintendo is very much a multiplayer platform. It's one of the few platforms left out there that focuses on playing with friends in the same room. A lot of today is one player online. You can only play with your friends if they're in another room with another Xbox hooked up to the internet. If you can just split off a controller and have a match of like zombies or something called Duty, it'd be an amazing opportunity. And again, capturing that older audience with a shooter that's not squids flowing around neon colored ink. I think there's a nice audience there that we as Nintendo don't want to cater to in our own parties. We don't want to create blood and gore and that kind of stuff. But we're not opposed to appealing to our older audience. I hear you. I hear you. And I got to say, Call of Duty did decent sales on Wii back in the day. Yeah, exactly. But I mean, you brought up something that scares me, though. As a developer.  How the heck am I doing dual stick controls on a single Joy-Con? Great. And so what I think is always a key is because the Nintendo platform is portable, it's not able to scale up to the same graphical abilities. We know this. It's a limitation, but at the same time it has that advantage of the portability. So I think in addition to just saying, hey, this game's portable, we should cook up something special about Call of Duty on Switch that you can only have on the Switch. So maybe it's specific modes or something like that, a new type of gameplay mode that Call of Duty's never had before. So what you're saying is for me to bring Call of Duty, like the current version for whatever year, to the Switch, I have to especially cater to the Switch. That sounds like a lot of research and R&D and extra money invested into something I don't have to do on any other platform. For something I don't know if it's going to sell. I would say, hey, Nintendo will help you. I don't know if they would, but I'm just saying, wouldn't that be a nice gesture?  Okay, you throw money on the table. I have no further argument. Money won't make everything work. Money makes the world go around. Yeah, no, that's cool. I mean, I honestly think that there's an audience for Call of Duty. The thing is Call of Duty came for two straight years on Wii U. And Wii U failed sales-wise. But it obviously sold well enough with Black Ops to have, you know, the next Call of Duty come out ghost or whatever it was, which wasn't even a good Call of Duty game. So I think, the thing is, Switch is more popular than that, so there's no reason to be like, hey, let's just get the platform that's even more popular. So I feel like Call of Duty, and the weird thing is, and this is something we don't know the exact details of, but it was said very openly that Activision was part of the Nintendo Switch development before the system came out. They were either part of the feedback, they were just part of it in some way, whether it was direct feedback, like Capcom got to give or whatever, they were part of it. So that means that Activision has to have plans for the system beyond Skylanders. Like, they're all like, oh yeah, we need all this so we can run Skylanders. No, I think they even just discontinued Skylanders. Like, they're done with it for now. So it's like, okay, so that couldn't have been why you were in on it. Nintendo didn't want you internet to talk about that game.  You know, because you're Activision Blizzard, you have a lot of huge IP. So yeah, well, I feel like of all the conversations we've had so far with EA and Activision, that Activision is probably the most likely to at least give it a shot.   Oh yeah, like, yeah, the visuals were really dumbed down on Wii, but they mastered those controls. It was amazing. It was almost as good as mouse and keyboard. It was crazy how good the controls were on Wii. So, I was always torn on which one to go after, because again, I'm shooting from the hip with this topic as well. My prepared responses with EA were because I've covered this whole EA finasco for like last year. I didn't have a lot to say about Activision because everything seems to be positive coming from Activision beyond the fact they don't really have a game coming to it this year. The... I thought of an argument for Beyond Good and Evil 2 with Ubisoft. And, you know, I feel like that argument's almost too easy to make. Just because Ubisoft and Nintendo always work closely together and there's still the rumors floating out there that Nintendo helped fund the project in the first place. So, just to ensure they have it on their platform, you know, originally the rumors would say they would have it exclusive, but just to ensure that Nintendo would be in on it and the fact that even though the beta site for it or whatever that site you can go sign up to, only had Xbox One, PC, and PlayStation 4 listed, they were quick to note that that has nothing to do with the platforms they're going to release it on. So that just means whatever that program is might be specific to those platforms, but they have gone out of their way and it's not coming to Switch. So I feel like there's a lot of hints saying that they're trying to get this thing out of Switch anyways. For whatever the reason may be, whether it was paid for or whether Mario and Rabbids is kind of like the testing ground to see if it's worth it, you know, whatever the case may be. Yeah. So instead of going for that one, I'm going to go for one that because it's been delayed, I feel like Nintendo needs to target it hard. Super hard. I'm going to go into Rockstar and I'm going to talk to them about bringing Grand Theft Auto 5 and Red Dead Redemption 2 over. Yep. Hello. So, hey Rockstar, how you doing today? So you traditionally don't know these games on Nintendo platforms. It's cool. We understand the type of games you make you wouldn't think of as a game on Nintendo platform. There's violence, lots of blood, lots of serious adult topics. But you've already made a lot of money on Grand Theft Auto 5. It's on every platform out there but Nintendo Switch. It is still as of today among the top 10 sellers per month. So my proposal to you because the Switch is selling like hotcakes and because I can guarantee you we will probably have a 20 million install base bare minimum by the end of our second fiscal year that you should test the waters in Port Grand Theft Auto 5 over to Nintendo Switch for release next year. And I know it's late to the party. I understand that. But we think there's a big market to have this game in a portable form. And I think you're going to see this year with Skyrim that despite that being an older game as well that it being available in a conveniently portable form while also being able to play on your TV is going to be attractive enough to sell millions of units. So I'm hoping we can prove to you with that game that it's worth the risk. But it's not really a risk for you, is it? Because you've already made all this money on Grand Theft Auto 5 in the first place. And we have Nvidia technology that makes it easy to port games from PC. So if you already have a PC version even if you have to run it on low settings it will run on Switch. I guarantee it. You properly optimize it, you're going to run and the thing is you only have to run it at 720p. You don't have to worry about higher assets. And don't worry if the game's over you know over 60 gigabytes or whatever the case may be we'll make sure you have the carts so you can have a physical version and a digital version. Now the reason I bring this up is because not only do I think this is a smart idea for Grand Theft Auto I think it's a no brainer to at least test the waters. I think you're going to see with the results of that that you should seriously consider Red Dead Retemption 2. Now hold on I know what you're saying you're targeting 4K with it.  I understand that but again think of the arguments I just made for Grand Theft Auto 5 rinse and repeat for Red Dead Redemption 2 and if Grand Theft Auto 5 does the numbers we think it can do we think it could be a multi-million unit seller that means that there's an audience for Red Dead Redemption 2 without even having the original Red Dead on the system because guess what we're thinking Grand Theft Auto 5 is going to do that without having 1, 2, 3 or 4. So if Grand Theft Auto 5 pulls that off and pulls in this audience that would like to play these games but do not have the time to sit in front of their TV to do it anymore so they don't currently purchase them but they grew up with Grand Theft Auto 4 they grew up with Red Dead, they grew up with LA Noire they grew up with these games but now they don't have time to sit in front of a TV you have a system that's got 20 million plus install base at that point you know that it's probably going to hit 30 or 40 million within the next few years at least that's the way our projection here's all our numbers we'll give you to back up the data I can't you know I'd love to say that we caught up to demand by them but here's the thing that we haven't caught up to demand by them isn't that a good thing that we can't make enough units because people just want this thing that bad now imagine Grand Theft Auto 5 Imagine Red Dead Redemption 2 I know it's not going to look as visually impressive I understand it might not run at 60fps if you're targeting that I understand that we cannot meet the tech level that we would like but we all like to make money right it's about the money and I'm not going to sit here today and throw money on the table to you because I think our device and the sales that you're seeing on it speak to itself and I know Nintendo games only we haven't had a major third party game yet Skyrim's coming and I'm telling you you're going to see that thing move 2 to 3 million units in the next year or two and if that's not enough to convince you then I don't know what to say you're going to move 2 or 3 million units and you continue to release games on those platforms you're a multi-platform company it's time to support every major platform do you want to leave hundreds of millions of dollars on the table just because you're unwilling to downgrade your visual quality to be in affordable form that no one's even going to notice because they're looking at it on a 720p 5 inch screen no and I don't want to hear that Omphal World can't be done shh come on Mike you're shooting from the hip that sounds pretty prepared that was not prepared at all that was I think this is why it sounds prepared here's a little fact I'm going to let people in on I would say probably 80 to 90% of the videos I make on Nintendo Prime are all shot from the hip I don't have a script I don't think about what I'm going to say before I say it it's just raw and I realized over time I'm really good at that and that's kind of why I get away with it I also know that it means I mumble and I repeat points at times and I understand that it's an issue I'm trying to work on and it wouldn't exist if I just wrote it all down and you understand that faster I had to get you back somehow but that's the thing I had no idea what I was going to say there before I said it oh my god this makes so much sense bring it up bring it up bring it up drop the mic I'm really good at that I didn't even come up with this topic until two minutes before we started recording so no I just feel like beyond the rockstar thing just an all seriousness about third party support I don't know that Nintendo necessarily needs it to be successful this time because as the David Gibson point before if this ends up being their all in one platform then all of Nintendo's games are coming to it and if you combine their 3ds output with their Wii U output together like I'm sorry they can supply games every single month no problem but it's that if what we think is true that we're bringing back lapsed gamers that we're bringing back people that don't have time to sit in front of their TVs anymore if all of this is true all these things we think about switch is true then it just makes sense to me that third parties eventually just can't keep ignoring that audience I mean look at the best selling games Breath of the Wild are you telling me that ARMS appeals to children I know it looks silly but have you played ARMS that doesn't feel like it I mean I understand with the motion controls you can get some kids into it it's some pretty serious competition out there you can get wrecked online it probably appeals to kids that doesn't mean the kids are good at it it's not like Mario Kart like I can't go to the jib you're pretty good at Mario Kart you only need to hit like three buttons one control stick three buttons you got it you might not have drifting down perfectly or the jump there's a few fine tune things but you'll figure that out ARMS has a lot of intricacies to it that matters Splatoon 2 even there's a lot of intricacies in Splatoon Splatoon appeals to children but from every child I've met that has actually played Splatoon which is like six of them some have said they just like playing a single player because when they go online they just get destroyed and that's because the online is full of a bunch of older people that know what they're doing because it's again there's a lot of skill at this there's a reason Nintendo is pushing these games as esports because that's the kind of people that they want these games to appeal to are the more serious competitive players which is weird since for all these years they've tried to push Smash Bros away from that community I know they've embraced it lately with Smash 4 but it almost felt like it was reluctantly embraced it's like okay people keep playing Melee well let's push Smash 4 so people buy our new game let's buy into esports even though we won't actually this is the one thing that Nintendo needs to do for me to understand that Nintendo is serious with esports by the way totally off topic they need to fund a prize in a tournament they've run all these tournaments or you win a belt or you win a copy of the game well how about a tournament where you have a million dollar grand prize Nintendo can afford that come on I mean other companies do that like if they want people to be serious then Nintendo you need a pony up to be serious with esports unless the csgo tournament have you heard that the people from last year have yet to be paid valve has so much money actually and there's a lot of other people who have actually participated in tournaments and they've still yet to be paid to not just last years I think was a winner and rugger up the thing is what I don't understand and obviously I don't know the intricacies about how this is supposed to be funded like I know there's some of the csgo stuff that's fan funded for prizes the thing is is like one if it was fan funded then the money should be there two even if the money is not there say valve blew it on something okay valve on steam let's be real they are a billion dollar company they could pay off the prizes I know the game duo doesn't like to make games anymore just like to send them piles of cash these days but I mean we're never getting love for dead 3 or half life 3 or anything with a 3 portal 3 it's not happening they don't make games anymore they're not a game making company anymore they are a platform company which is fine even though they don't really make the improvements to steam that need to happen I know off topic but it kind of frustrates me now I love steam but we're starting to see better ways to do things and steam is kind of behind but they still own so much of the market that this better way to do things might never become mainstream and it kind of upsets me like there's abilities now to like trade digital games and other players the steam doesn't really let you do that just as an example or like the fact that their gate is way too open with indie titles way too open I mean it is crazy it's so hard to find good indie games and I know there's arguments out there that oh well the good games rise to the top and you know I'm like you know how much crap you have to wade through before you find to get that good game it is steam can do a lot better it is relevant if that rainway app comes out it is relevant for rainway app that's what you're going to have to deal with or you know I know obviously EA with Origin I think it's Origin's actually gotten a lot better since launch but again Origin reminds me of what I'm worried about with the Nintendo Switch Online app Origin's first impression was terrible so the reputation of it today is terrible even though today Origin is actually not that bad in fact they do some things better than steam and your computer doesn't recognize that it's a virus anymore and it doesn't eat up all these resources like they fixed all the stuff that was basically wrong with it and it doesn't matter that it's good now because it's forever going to have that reputation that it sucks just like it doesn't matter that steam is slowly becoming kind of crappy but it doesn't matter because of the initial impressions steam revived PC gaming which is probably a little bit of a blessing that they didn't try to put voice chat out on Switch at launch because overall the launch of the Switch was super successful it was a great first impression oh but it's missing all these features yeah but they said they'll come later yeah didn't know what there was no what was the right play yeah it's coming later because it's going to suck yeah right we don't want bad press at launch because we're missing features that's okay you don't want to those are smaller in place those are smaller in place I'm like yeah but it's on Wii U I can just play it there yeah but better for anybody that's on Switch come on that everyone seemed to be having at the launch was you know the Switch is missing a lot of stuff but I don't care I'm just having fun Sniproclips is great Armor Man's not that bad they're all tiny little red flags but you come up with the something but it's going to be crappy that is one of the most gigantic red flags and boom my issues overall I know some people who feel like I don't like Switch I love Switch my issues are more so I feel like there's something brewing in the background that's wrong not just because Nintendo tends to screw things up they don't always they didn't really screw things up with DS to be fair you know with Wii after a few years they just kind of I know some of the market was moving on but there was things they could have done I feel like to reinvigorate that market and not just let it pass by them to 360 in PlayStation 3 but I think that beyond some of those mistakes and some of the droughts and everything that Nintendo there's something weird going on with Switch and I I was going to do a separate video on this eventually where we don't know about that they're not even acknowledging or even talking about like Virtual Console huge deal a lot of people care about it a lot of people that are stuck with Nintendo these years care about it and if it's not going to be there just say it's not going to be there if it is going to be there and say it's going to be there and we're just going to launch it until 2018 or if it is going to be there but you know that it's going to have severe backlash just don't talk about it that's the only reason not to talk about it because people aren't going to like it you think it will make you more money long call despite the backlash maybe it's a subscription service but it's ridiculously priced and the games are laggy yeah well I'm just saying something about what they're doing with it probably isn't going to sound good and I know the opposite is well they don't want they'll look at Breath of the Wild they just don't want to say anything until it's absolutely ready they also announced Breath of the Wild in 2014 yeah I mean they did say something before Breath of the Wild was ready to be honest so it's kind of like it's okay to like even if they didn't show Breath of the Wild we knew it existed, they said it existed they didn't say no we're not making a game for Wii U no they always said they were making a Zelda game for Wii U so just saying that you're working on virtual console for Switch is enough but they're not talking about it they just keep saying we're not talking about virtual console right now which of course could mean the bad news is we're not going to have virtual console but just say that, get it out now while everything is so positive don't wait until all the negative stuff hits and then have more negative


So my kids are like super into Spidey and the Amazing Friends and has branched out into, you know, all the other Marvel everything. So my husband and I actually chronologically starting the Marvel MCU. We watched Captain America and we're even detouring a little bit. Like we're doing Agent Carter next, the whole series. So I guess we're not in the movie, the dramatic universe, but we're- Are you doing the MCU chronological order? So like you've got like Captain America. Yes, his first like you're not starting with Iron Man. And then yeah, no, we're not doing like release order. We're doing time. Yes, I've done that. And yeah, it's a long time to burn through. It's all right.  So it will take us our kids will be in college by the time we finish. Yes. Have your kids seen Infinity War and Endgame yet? No, they're little. They're three and five. So there's not a lot that we let them watch. Yes, you know, my kids are 10 and seven. Last year we did something similar. And by the time they got to Endgame and spoiler, spoiler, spoiler. If you don't want to hear what I'm about to say, skip. But when Captain America gets Thor's hammer, their heads just exploded. They're like, I knew it. I knew it. It's awesome. It was an awesome experience. That to me is like on par with our generations. I am your father type moment from Star Wars. That that is truly special. So I I'm kind of envious. I think I might want to do something similar. Yeah, well, you could join us. We're only on the episode three of Agent Carter. So there's plenty of time to get perfect.


First, there's new information in the case against the Army Reservist who held seven Mexican illegal immigrants at gunpoint. Today, Maricopa County attorney announced that reservist Patrick Hobb had the legal right to make a citizen's arrest in the case. Arizona law allows a private citizen to make a legal arrest if a felony has been committed and that the person he is arresting committed the felony. Joining us now is Army Reservist Patrick Hobb along with his attorney, David Cantor. Good to see you both once again. Patrick, explain to me. Did you see a felony being committed? Explain the circumstances once again of this arrest you made or the stopping of these people. Did you see or think a felony was being committed? Well, I mean it all started out as a self-defense and just went from there so I mean I couldn't tell at first what was going on besides men were rushing me out of a field so I just went off self-defense right there. So wasn't it that you saw a felony? You thought a felony would be committed against you but did you at that time believe these were illegal immigrants? That was my assumption once did starting mumbling Spanish back and forth to each other and just having multiple layers of clothing on, having backpacks and everything but and then it was later confirmed by another individual who spoke Spanish. Now Mr. Cantor as I understand at the law state you have to either see a felony or know that the person committed a felony. I understand that they're not going to press charges here but wasn't this based on an assumption that Patrick was making not the actual commission of a felony? Well, actually the way the law reads is if there's a misdemeanor which is a breach of the peace or a felony being committed either one will qualify for citizen's arrest and here the misdemeanors of threats by conduct, intimidation by conduct, disorderly conduct. Those along with the justification of self-defense gave him the grounds and then of course it was confirmed once he reached their vehicle that they were in fact illegal aliens being led by coyote. Hey Sergeant welcome back to the program. I'm relieved for your sake that this happened. Why do you think originally you weren't believed that you were rushed? Why do you think that was that there was some criticism that you had followed them to their car after you had claimed that they had rushed you? Why do you think that there was a lack of belief here you're a guy who just got back from serving your country? Well I mean on the 911 call everybody says well you sound calm you don't mention anything about it and I mean it's just training took over been in situations overseas like this before yeah and so I mean it I just kind of cut to the chase of the current situation and I kept a cool head through it you know I gotta tell you something I'm not sure if you didn't have the publicity you had and that there was an overwhelming support I know that for example KNST and in Tucson and KFY and Phoenix I mean you got a lot of support on talk radio and a lot of support in the community and I'm not really sure had that message and right here on Fox I'm not sure if that message had not gotten out whether or not you'd be in the position you are today do you think the publicity helped a lot well yeah without a doubt your show is one of the the leading factors as to why this man is no longer facing five to 105 years in prison the support you generated along with the local talk radio really helped I think it forced the county attorney's office to take a hard look at what they were dealing with I want you both to respond to the to the words of the county attorney Andrew Thomas and by the way I like Joe Arpaio I he's been I think a terrific sheriff and I was I it was one of the few times I ever disagreed with him but the county attorney said quote I don't want the message to go out the people can start rounding up illegal immigrants whether or not they think they're here legally or whether or not they know all the facts he said this is a very unusual case with a narrow set of facts and unusual circumstances that allow you to avoid prosecution he's basically saying this had everything to do with the fact that you were rushed that you felt you were in your life was in jeopardy correct sergeant well yes that's correct sir and it's definitely something where I don't advocate or feel that anybody should do this unless they have the training I mean you got to defend yourself but as far as going out and looking for people like the story originally had definitely don't do that you had no agenda this was not about rounding up illegal immigrants at some as they suggested that's correct I mean it could have been anybody in the field rushing me like that and I would act the same sergeant we thank you and council we thank you for being with us tonight