Okay, so whenever you're ready, Myra. Today is August 17th, and I'm calling the meeting of the disability access advisory committee to order. I'm not sure exactly what time it is. But can we find out who is here at the meeting. We can do a roll call. What is this. Hello. Tori. Are you here. What is what. We hear you, Elise. I know, but suddenly I watched. I was here document up here. Oh, I was just pulling up the agenda. Oh, okay. I'm sorry. Okay. I heard Tori. I know Elise is here. I turned. I heard Marty. I have not heard Ruth or sarin. Is Ruth here. Ruth is here. Yeah. Okay. So do we have the roll call established? I think so. Yes. Okay. And there is an announcement, which is a very unfortunate announcement, which is that Xander. Has informed Maureen and me that he will no longer be able to be a part of this committee. Problems with getting time from his employer. So we need to find another member of the DAAC. And I feel really bad about that because he actually provided us a lot of information that we didn't get anybody from anybody else. So I'm hopeful that we can come up with a new member. Did you talk to the town manager about that at all? I emailed the town manager. And I'm waiting for a response. I believe the town manager's on vacation. So, and he'll be back on the 23rd. So, okay. I'll speak to him when he returns. Okay. We did have another applicant the last time we had a new member. And I'm not aware of whether that person is still interested, but that person probably would be a good member. And maybe we don't need to go through a protracted lengthy search. Anyway, this is a very long agenda. Okay. Do we have people here to discuss the Kendrick park changes? Did, did somebody come to. Talk about that. No, I know there isn't anyone here for it, but I did review the plans yesterday. So I, I think I could walk you through it. When you're ready. Okay. That's the first thing, right? Announcements other than. Xander's departure. Are there other announcements? Okay. Let's go in. In talk about that. And I'm not sure what the timeline is for this. And I'm not sure what kind of a decision we need to make. And I'm, you know, what we need to look at everything is from the, through the lens of disability access. So whether we like something or don't like something from some other perspective. Isn't part of what this committee is charged to do. We have to talk about it from the perspective of disability access. So. I know they want to change the direction of, they want to make it one way. It appears one way going north. And they want to add some parking. And they made some quite, I don't understand what they said about the sidewalk. On the west side of Kendrick park. Being incorporated. And having to do with saving trees. I don't understand that. So can you. Give us some kind of perspective that explains that too. Sure. Okay. So. From the email from town councilor Ryan. He indicates that. If possible, if the DAAC can provide comments. To the TSO. No later than September 21st. And. Let's see here. So. They're, they submitted a concept plan. Which is on the west side of Kendrick park become a one way. North bound from McCollum street to. He says triangle street is actually technically north pleasant street, but. But to the end of Kendrick place and add additional parking and a sidewalk. On the east side of the roadway. This will remove. This will include removing the tree bell on the. The west side of North pleasant street to shift existing parking to the west to reduce the impact on the existing trees. On Kendrick place. So. So they would like to talk about where those. It's said from cows lane. I never knew how to pronounce that calls lane north. So. So. So. So. So. So. So. Colin. Colin. Yeah, but it says colds. The memo that I have in front of me says McCollum street. And so. Let's see here. So I now I'm pulling up the concept plan. So. So it appears that. They will maintain. The east side. Of north pleasant street. That's shown on the concept plan. And they will. At the. I guess intersection at the corner of McCollum street in north pleasant street, they'll do crosswalk improvements. On. On. They'll provide three crosswalks. On the east side of north pleasant street. On the east side of north pleasant street. Connecting North McCollum street to. To. Kendrick park. And they will continue with maintaining tree. A tree belt on the west side of north pleasant street. And then. On the east side of north pleasant street on the. Side that Kendrick places. Located on. On the east side of north pleasant street along. Let's see here. One, two, three, four, five, six, seven, eight. Nine, 10, 11, 12. 12 angled parking spaces. I guess the self. Self east corner of. Along north pleasant street. And then once. It crosses over McCollum street north of McCollum street. That's when it would become north. That would. Would be become. One way north bound. And there they propose parallel parking. Along, along that stretch on the east side. Of north pleasant street, which is on the west side. Both sides. Oh yeah, you're correct. Yep. Thank you. So on both sides. And none of the parking spaces. And there's a total of 25 spaces. I have not counted out if the 25 spaces. Includes only the parallel parking. I could. I'll do, I'll try to do that in this meeting or if that, it looks like that is 25 parking spaces. And then there's angled parking, which I did not read in, in the memo. So that might be something separate. So where's the handicapped parking. I agree. Right. There is the handicap. They're required to have some if they're going to have 25 spaces. Well, they're required to have more than that. Each section of parking has to have. At least one accessible space, which begs the question why they've split those two. Parallel. Those two angled parking. Lots. Why they've separated them. Oh, right here. Yeah. Great question. I'm wondering that myself. So if you do that, you've got to have accessible parking in each one of those sections. That's not considered the same lot. Right. So let's, yeah. So, you know what? Let's start. And this will be our first focus area to discuss is. Off if they have to, and then we'll get more space. So. Not, no, unfortunately, we don't know, you know, what, what they're proposing here, but let's, let's. Brainstorm what your recommendations are. If in this angled. In this area that has angled parking. Which parking spaces do you think. Would make sense to have. An ADA. Accessible parking spaces. One or two. How many and where would you propose those? Parking even work. For. Van accessible spaces. Oh, sure. Works better than. Parallel. Parallel parking. Oh, yeah. Better. So. I would put. The, a handicap space in the far north. This one. No, the far north. This one. Okay. It also has to be the flattest space. Possible. Like. Oh yeah. That whole thing's got to be. Paved correctly. Let's assume that they'll do that right. I would also. I know that. I'd also put one at the south. The far south. So there's someone who's parking, who wants to go across the street or. Or towards town can. Can park there. Okay. That'll give you your biggest variety. Which is what you want to strive for. What is this space in the middle? Which is not. It doesn't look like a parking place. It's not. I suspect there's a tree there. Oh, that would be my guess. Is there trying to work around an existing tree? And so. Good question. And. And. Uh, Uh, Saren. Uh, yeah. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. Uh, Uh, Saren. Uh, yeah. And, and good thinking, Marty. I agree. I think that they're trying to maintain as much as possible. You know, mature. Uh, native trees as much as possible. So to get back to, uh, Marty's, uh, suggestion about having an ADA space. Um, one. The, the first angle space. And the second angle space. Well, I don't know. You know, if it was the first one. So, would you suggest that there would be an aisle? Um, so it would.  It's got to be an eight foot aisle. With eight foot aisle. How about, how about a, wouldn't that be more space conserving the space. If we put the aisle. You know, like if they do it in the southern side of it, where one, two, three, four, five, six, seven, eight, nine places, you know, use two of them for HP and with an aisle in the middle. So that will reduce it. Yeah, you get to keep one speed. And I just want to say, if they argue that there aren't enough spaces there to warrant two spaces, I would argue that you really can't have handicap spaces or ADA spaces in a parallel parking situation. So that's why we would put them here where the angled spots are. So angled HP spaces is more ideal than parallel. Okay, that's a good note, Tori. Saren, to get back to your comment about, so let's just play out, this is an ADA space, this is an aisle, the next one's an aisle, and then the third space is another handicap space. Is that where you're suggesting? The striped place in the middle. Yeah. So if you put one HP in the upper part, northern part, so one space you're wasting for the stripes, but if you put both HP spaces on the southern side, then you only waste one space for the stripe. Sure. And does anyone have any sort of strong feelings about if there was sort of ADA space aisle and then ADA space, should it be on sort of the southern side or the northern side? So I would say this parking area, particularly the angled parking spaces, is probably to accommodate folks to go to Kendrick Park in this playground and any sort of future uses at Kendrick Park. So would it make more sense to have it at the northerly kind of spot here where it's sort of central to the walkways or should it be down here on the southern side, which does have a walkway as well and that will lead you, you know, it will lead you to downtown and then it will also lead you around the Kendrick Park. But if you put it on the northern side or you put both of them on the northern side, it's closer to the crosswalks where more people may be coming from. Okay. So you're suggesting have that sort of sequence near the McCullen and North Pleasant Street intersection. Right. And then it's also more central to the park. So you're not all the way on one end of the park and you have to travel all the way to the other end. It's not quite halfway, but it's better than being all the way on one end. Okay. Great. All right. So let's, does anyone else have any questions or comments about the angled parking proposed angle parking? I have one. I have a question about that. If we think the space in the middle is because of a big tree there, couldn't that area be the striped area and HP parking could be put on both sides of that? Could we utilize that dead space for the striped area? No, you really can't because it's going to be higher than the rest of it. It's curved all the way around. Oh, I see. Yeah. It's because there's a tree in the middle of it. Right. Probably. I think there is a tree there. I see. Okay. All right. Okay. So what about the, what about the 25 parallel parking spaces that are further south? Well, before we get to that, let's, if you don't mind if we can just sort of, sort of move down with the plan. So a next would be, so it's angle parking. And then the next, if you scroll and look at the plan, if you're able to, they have cross proposed intersection and crosswalk improvement projects. So there would be a crosswalk that would be provided on North pleasant street on the West side that crosses over McCullen street.  Do you have any recommendations about that? Well, as long as they make them tactually accessible. Okay. Which they think they're doing now. So the, okay. Yep. All right. Okay. And so if I move my scroll, my, the plan to now looking at the parallel parking spaces. So yes. So it looks like there would be parallel parking on both sides of the road. They would be removing the tree belt along the side of Kendrick place. But they would be maintaining the tree belt. On the West side, which has trees on them. And it doesn't call out any ADA parking spaces. I think it does. Does it? You know, it's spaces. It, to tell you the truth, the copy that I have. The resolution of the image is. Is pretty grainy. So I can't. Well, I don't know about the picture. I just know that I think Marty knows better than I, but the, the, the regulations require that there be a space there. No, actually. You don't think so. Actually the code doesn't. Actually the code really doesn't. Deal with. Parallel parking. That's sort of a. Every time I've done parallel parking, I've gotten a variance because. It's really not an approved operation because it's dangerous. Yep. So, but what I was looking at, I was looking at the code right now. If you consider this whole thing a lot. We need at least two handicapped spaces because the code requires between. If you have between 26 and 50 spaces, you have to have two accessible spaces. And one of those has to be a van accessible. So isn't that what we just did? Yeah, that's what we just did. Yeah. If we put them in the, in the. In the. Angled parking. That. That's the place they need to go. Yes, I agree. Because it's just too dangerous to have people get out of their car on a street and you can't. You're not always the passenger. So you can't. You can't guarantee how you're going to get in and out. It's much safer to be on a. With an access aisle that. Nobody's going to pull into. I'm going to pull up the memo again. Yeah. So, Sarah, and when you use the. When you share the aisle, one person has to back in, right? Yes. Yeah. Well, typically. Yeah. You're right. You have to share it. Yeah. So if it's shared one person as to back in. Is it set up in a way that it's going to be. I'm not a driver, but is it going to be. So then it's not a useful double space. Well, again, it depends if, if you're like, um, Xander Xander has a sedan and would pull into. Not the van accessible. And get out of the driver's side. Which would be. So if you put the van accessible on the north side. Because Vans. Right. Almost always get out. On the opposite, on the passenger. Right. Right. So, so if the far north. Parking space. Is the van accessible. Then someone with a sedan who's a driver. Can get out. On the other side. Okay. That's fine. It's just, you can't, it's not going to work for two van accessible space. No. Yeah. It's not going to work. And it's going to be. You can't back into these either. Because they're angled. So we're not, we're creating. So we're not really doing anything, any better than if Xander could get out. If it's on a one way street, if Xander could get out on the passenger, I mean, on the driver's side. In one of those directions that could be a spot too. I missed that. Well, yeah, if. I mean, I understand what you're saying about getting out on the driver's side versus the passenger side. But a driver could also get out on a one way street. If you're on the left side. On the West side. It would never work on a, on a two way street, but they're making it a one way street. So I just, I was thinking that it could be an accessible spot. There could be an accessible spot, but they don't need a HP spot for that, I guess. They could just park. Yeah. And it's still, it puts the person out in traffic. So if it's on the one way street going in the left side, doesn't. Yeah, it does. They're still in the driver's side. It doesn't. Oh, I see what you're saying. Like if you're on the wrong side of the street. Yeah. If it's a two way street, you could never do it, but on a one way street, you could do it. I don't know. I mean, I'm not a driver. It just struck me. You could do that. The problem is if you get out on the, on a parallel parking situation and you get out. On the curb. You can't go anywhere if you're in a wheelchair, because there's not paving right there. Yeah. That's the problem. Okay. Okay. It's. That's why the code actually doesn't address how parallel accessible part. Okay. Okay. And Marty, just to make sure. And Marty, just to clarify, you said the code requires 280, 80 a spaces, including one van accessible space for parking. That's 26 to 50. Was it 50? Yeah. Okay. Great. Yeah. You want the section number for that? Sure. It's a 23.2.1. Perfect. All right. The other issue. This is great. The other issue that's a ADA issue. I mean, that's a accessibility issue has to do with the sidewalks and trees. And I'm hopeful that when they say they're going to maintain the trees. That they're going to do something to make sure that the sidewalks remain accessible to wheelchairs and people who. Need to have flat sidewalks. Because the problem is the trees. They grow. And like in most of this town. The trees have destroyed sidewalks. The town has not kept up with the sidewalks at all. And most of our sidewalks are pretty impassable. If you have a significant mobility issue. Terrible. So I want to make sure that whatever, you know, whenever they say, I love trees, I think they need to maintain the trees. They need to maintain the trees. And keep them there, but they have to figure out how to build the sidewalk. In a way that in five years, it's still going to be a sidewalk that's useful. And I don't know anything about how to do that. But there are people who do know how to do that. And I think. We need to put something in our response. It says that the sidewalks. Need to remain as smooth surfaces that. Wheelchairs and people with significant mobility impairments can still use. Because otherwise there's no point. And you know, I think sidewalks is going to be my new thing. Me too. Because the sidewalks in this town are, they get a grading of F minus in my book. And I, you know, it's, there's very little of this town that is safely traversable. If you really need sidewalks.  So for me, it's a big issue. However they build them, they need to build them with the future accessibility in mind. That also means snow removal. When necessary. Yeah. There is that thing. So if I hear everyone's comments, I'll go through it. So the DAC recommends that. Two. ADA spaces. Including one van accessible space be provided. A law. At the sort of northern cluster of the angled parking. Near the. Corner of McCullin and North Pleasant street, which is central to the, that crosswalk and to the walkway. At Kendrick park. Make sure that the proposed crosswalk improvement for McCullin and North Pleasant street. Have tactile. Surfaces at each of the. And visually, I mean, you know. Visually and tactually accessible. It has to be. You know, maintained as stripes. Okay. And then maintain the. The, the, the sidewalk that's being, I guess, redone. I don't know that that's the stretch that, that we're looking at in good condition for. For future, for the life of the sidewalk to be ADA accessible. And then I'll say something about, you know, make sure the grading's appropriate that the tree roots. And that the, the, the sighting and the grading of the sidewalk. Is. In such a way that tree roots will not. Impede. And crack the sidewalks and make sure that the surface of the sidewalk is smooth. And. To remove snow and ice as applicable. Yes. Okay. All right. Well, we did that. What's the next thing I. Yeah. Getting to this agenda isn't so easy. Given. Yeah. That's good to know. I'm sorry. Can I just insert. I have to leave in five minutes. Is there something you want us to take up? Probably the van accessible parking that relates to the North common. Cause that was an issue last night. That's good. Yeah. Okay. So what, what, what, what have you found out about that? Maureen. That, so the, the town will be creating a task force to. Finalize the North common projects. And the town manager needs to create this task force. And it hasn't been created yet. So. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. Sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. Sorry. You are the one who created the task force and it hasn't been created yet. So, um, so, when, when set task force is created, I, I, um. We'll be bringing this up. I have alerted. Chris Brest rep the planning director about this, but we felt that this should hold off. But we got to do some work together to find it. And the. Do you feel like you want to be the representative of this committee on the task force? Or do we ask that one of our members be. Appointed to the task force. I have requested that I be on the task force. So I made it known that, you know, someone that is advocating for disabilities really should be represented in these sorts of projects. So. Okay. I do want to thank the TSO for putting us into this Kendrick loop, and I don't know if they did it or if the people on the Transportation Access Committee did it. But I, you know, I appreciate the outreach from the TSO to us before they actually built this. And it's sort of like the first time that I know of that it's happened when they were just really thinking about how to do it, instead of bringing a plan that's 90% done and saying, well, yeah, we could have done that, but we didn't. Yeah, that's great. You know, I've been certainly advocating to staff that, you know, your input is very valuable. And as I say to others, in my, from my perspective, thinking I've learned such a wealth of information at all these meetings, as well as the design review board in context of urban design and making things accessible for our sidewalks and public spaces is a form of good urban design. And so I think when people can think of terms in terms of good urban design, it might sort of be like, oh, oh, that makes sense that, you know, that it's, it's all a system. All this is related to one another. So it's urban design for people, not just to move traffic and not just, I don't even know, but yeah, sometimes things that look really pretty don't work out because people can't use them. So, you know, I think, but I really want to, I want to thank George Ryan, who's the new interim head, because I think it was very nice of him to write. I know that that was started by Darcy, who used to be the head of it. She sent me all kinds of information. And George Ryan sent this one to me. I would like to say that I think that's how the town committees should operate. So I really appreciate that. Anyway, Sarin, is there anything else you can wait for that we should do?  Sounds good. I'll send you a link. Yeah, that would be great. All right. Zoom recording. OK. OK. Bye, Sarin. Bye. We still have a quorum, right? Bye, Sarin. Yes. Bye. Yeah. Bye. OK, so what's the next thing? So the FISC, so this, oh, actually, it should say Fiscal Year 2022. Oh, that's the application. For the MOD grant, yeah. Yeah, OK. It's hard to think of 2022, but let's see here. So that's coming up, that application is coming up. And I don't know if we discussed any ideas for the. We discussed a little bit maybe of loops, I mean, for hearing impaired improvements. Yeah. And last time, somebody brought up the stop lights, but Marty very correctly said that that should be out of the maintenance budget from DPW. That's the next item we should discuss. But what else besides the hearing improvement has the town come up with? So that the audible, I was going to say audible signal, sorry. The assisted listing devices is something that I have been sort of suggesting to staff. I know that. So I did a little research. So the only public meeting room that has assisted listing devices is the town room. And so all other public meeting rooms, such as the Bing Center, the police station, the North Library, the Jones Library. Monson. Monson. They do not have listening devices. And the more I think about it, in context of COVID, of let's just say next year hopefully, I don't know when folks will need to come back to physical meeting rooms. But there may be folks that want to wear masks of facial masks because of COVID, which may add to another layer of having issues of hearing. I certainly do. When I have meetings in person, I have difficulty hearing people. I do rely on seeing people's mouths move and all that. So I did reach out to North Hampton who received the MOD grant last year for assisted listening devices for their meeting rooms. And the planner there was nice enough to share with me the make and model that they hired, that they ordered, and the costs and stuff. You know, unfortunately, there's an endless sort of list of things that we could seek out. I know there's probably other items at the Bing Center that could be really great for the MOD grant. I've talked to the facilities manager. The door, one of the front doors that faces RAO's or the old RAO's location, which is the door that has been used for COVID vaccination shots, that door needs improvement. And it needs a push button. And there's some threshold issues there. And I know that Jeremiah LaPlante, the facilities manager, was thinking and I were thinking that that could be another good investment for the town. Was there never a door opener on that door? I don't know the history of it. I had the feeling there was. Maybe not. How much does that cost compared to the assistive listening? I don't know yet. Yeah, there could be a push button at the door. So I actually could have misspoken. But I know that there are issues with the entrance and the threshold. I was just wondering whether that too is a maintenance issue rather than an expansion of what we offer. I don't know. Let's say that that's a capital improvement. My experience in trying to take care of threshold issues means that you're going to put in a new door and frame and chop up some concrete. It can get pretty expensive pretty fast. OK. All right, well, we certainly should have an access of the entrance there. Yeah, we should. I think we should have because it's on the same level as the large group activity room. If you come in the upstairs door where I used to come in with Sarah and all the time when she drove the when she used to pick me up, that doesn't get you there. You have to take the elevator. So we really need an accessible entrance there. And that's another possibility. Yeah. And just sort of going off topic so slightly, I guess. So the town is currently working with a contractor to install a ramp from the parking lot adjacent to the bank center that will lead you down to the Masanti Community Center. And that's current. So that is a different door, right? It is a different side door. Yeah, that's in the back. I'm watching that unfold right from my it's right in front of my apartment building. And I'm watching the process. Yeah, it's happening. It's happening. Yes. Yep. Does that ramp connect over to a ramp that goes to the south entrance? I don't know. I can send you pictures. I took a couple of pictures. It will. It will connect. It will connect to the walkway behind the bank center and it will connect to the existing pathway that will then loop around the bank center and loop you back to the front. It's pretty big. Yeah, that door is a good alternative idea. Do we have? I mean, we don't know the cost of either of those things, right? Right. So this MOD grant is for up to $250,000. My hunch is they don't award the full 250 to communities and they tend to award smaller chunks such as 20,000, up to maybe $100,000 if it's a really good application. So I will keep on talking to Jeremiah. Well, there are two good projects. I don't think we do a whole lot for people with hearing impairments. So there is something there and there's a whole lot of people who have hearing impairments. Maureen, I want to admit it. And then getting in that door. So there's two good projects. Anybody have a third idea? Well, I have a question. Does the MOD grant come with guidelines as to what they are looking for for people? It must. Yeah, good question. I can pull up the email. It's to remove physical barriers. And that's all it says. Yeah, but I can pull up the email. Hold on one second if I can find it. FY 2022. Let's see here. OK, so I do have the email. And pull that up. So yeah, so there do. The application is due by the end of October the 8th. Project grants up to $250,000 to remove barriers and create and improve accessible features and programmatic access for persons with disabilities throughout the Commonwealth. Maureen. And then they have examples. Examples include but not limited to increasing both physical access and programmatic access through the addition of features such as ramps, elevators, power lifts, and limited use slash limited application, LULAS, signage, communication access devices, curb cuts, and or any other features that are designed to improve architectural access and or programmatic access. Grants will be awarded on a competitive basis to projects that demonstrate real and tangible positive improvements to persons with disabilities. Maureen. Yes. I was wondering, did this get sent out to the committee because it might have been really valuable if everybody had already seen it? I think I forwarded it at some point, but I can certainly forward it again. OK. Thank you. I think what we're talking about is definitely in the purview. The only other place I was thinking of but then eliminated it is a place like the middle school auditorium, but that belongs to the regional schools. It doesn't belong to the towns. We have no access interest in that. And I don't know if there's anything like in Crocker Farm or Fort River or Wildwood. Fort River and Wildwood are going to not exist too long. So the only other place I could think of that might have community access issues that we could deal with, that is town budget, is Crocker Farm, if that makes any sense. I don't know if they have a town meeting room. I expect they do have meeting rooms. And that is a town facility, whereas the regional schools are not. I can certainly touch base with Jeremiah LaPlante, the facilities manager about any ideas about Crocker Farm. That's that's a good suggestion. No, I mean, just for that, if it has to do with the assist of listening, if it's assistive listening, just add that to the list of places that might need an assistive listening device. Because if they need to have that, that is the purview of the town. Whereas the middle school auditorium is not. Got it. Good clarification. OK. So you weren't looking to do a third project then, Myra, at Crocker. No, no, no. I was I was adding one additional. Oh, you mean originally? Yeah, originally, I just wondered if there were other ideas that people had. Yeah. Well, Crocker is pretty well accessible. It's been quite a while since I've been in there, but but it's a good accessible school. I was only thinking of it to add to the list for assistive listening devices. If we're going to go that route, it should be added to the list of places. That's the only reason I wanted to put it on there. Because we mentioned Munson and North Amherst and Jones and a lot of other places that belong to the town. But Crocker Farm also belongs to the town. That's the only reason I brought it up. OK. Well, if anyone, you know. Yeah, no, that's good suggestion, Myra. And I will forward the email off again about the M.O.D. grant. And, you know, if folks, if you for some reason tomorrow you have this grand idea, certainly email me any ideas that you come up with. And I will discuss it with staff. OK. OK. So the next item is back back a little bit because there's a playground on Kendrick Park. Are they redoing that? Yeah, so currently they're actually finishing out. The construction for the playground at Kendrick Park. So that's something that. It has been work been working on since probably early spring. So that's so we don't know a thing about that playground. It never came here. Is that what you have in mind, Tori? Is it an accessible playground? Yeah, it is. I believe Nate Malloy gave a presentation to this group last year for the I know I guess I wasn't there. I guess I wasn't there for it. I would have to check my records. I thought he did. I don't recall it, but I don't think so. None of us remember it. And I think maybe he went to the design review board, but he didn't come here. And that's that's a good question, Tori. Really good. Yeah, so we don't know anything about that playground. We don't know, you know, what the accessibility is. And it's probably a little late for us to even talk about it. But I don't know. But there are things that they should include. And for that matter, does anyone know if the sprinkler park is accessible? I think we did have someone come and talk to us about that. Are you talking about at Groth Park? Groth Park. Yeah, I believe I believe Nate Malloy presented to this board last year about that. Yeah, I think. I have one quick thing since we're on projects. I know that the whole thing in front of CBS and the fire station, they've done a really nice job, but they still have not put in a crosswalk. That is correct. Yes. When is they putting that in? Great question. So there's one contracting company, Tyler Davis, that is doing multiple projects in downtown. And they have very limited staff. So they're kind of jumping around. And so there will be a striping of that crosswalk. There are vehicles ignoring that. I had to be really careful yesterday. Even though there's a sign standing up in the middle of it, there are vehicles that are not stopping. It's not because it's not visible as a crosswalk. No, good. Thank you for sharing that. I will ask TPW when that will happen. Great, thanks. Thank you. All right, maybe we should go to the stop lights, the accessible accessible pedestrian. Yeah. Quote, unquote, accessible pedestrian signals. So I did hear beeping going from town hall across. I heard it on the town hall side, but not on the other side. And Kellogg, nothing and none of the other corners. And it's not like they don't know about this. So what do we need to do short of suing the town if we can find someone who doesn't work for the town like us? What do we do to make him do it? All you hear is wait. And then, you know, beeping when the light is red, but you don't really hear when it's a walk signal at all. Right, you don't. If you hear anything on any of them. No, it's inconsistent. It's inconsistent, it's terrible. And it's not like he isn't on notice. I don't know if he's on notice from his boss, but he's, you know, I don't know what we can do anymore, but it's not changing. And this is the time of the year that's prime for that kind of stuff. So not clear to me, but it's serious issue. It has been, it continues to be. And we need to know what's going to be done about it. So the assistant town manager, Dave Zomak, and I have discussed this and he was on vacation last week. And so him and I need to loop back and discuss this. And in essence, how do we get TPW to address this properly? So I don't have much information other than I am making it making these concerns, pointing them out to, you know, TPW and the town manager's office. So, you know, we could the DAC could certainly draft a memo to the town manager's office. I sent him a memo way back before. Marty did her study and I got no reply. And I could recreate the memo and add some that I have in an additional memo just sitting there to get sent. But I mean, part of me says a memo is fine, but a memo is a matter of public record where we can't say everything. And a meeting with the town manager, if we all get into his office, is not. So I don't know if this committee wants to take steps to do anything, you know, more than writing another memo because memos don't seem to get any action. I don't know what to do. And I'm wondering if anybody has any better ideas than I do. Yeah. Also, Dave Zomak said that he's happy to attend one of these meetings. And here you're concerned. And well, we would need to schedule a specific meeting for him to come to. So I can certainly look back to him and see where staff is at with, you know, it sounds like Marty did her audit of seeing whether the audible functions or not. But that doesn't prove or just prove whether they are broken or just turned on or off. Is that correct? And I think Marty has suggested a professional, like someone that's an expert in it would need to truly evaluate it. Yeah. Well, I think what we ought to do is request a schedule from the town on when they're going to get this fixed. They're broken. So the result is to get them fixed. And to be fixed, when will they be fixed? And sorry, I just don't know the answer. So if they do need to be fixed, is that like some person that needs to be hired? Or do you feel like? I don't know. I don't know. Yeah, we don't know that. But we need to have a response from the DPW and the town because it is a town liability. My suggestion would be to send, resend a memo, but a stronger one to DPW, the town manager, and to the council, to all council members. I try to bring in this whenever Guilford is in a council meeting, I bring up this issue. And he keeps saying, oh, I checked it and they're working.  They're not. Yeah, that's my call. And I know they're not. So this is not. I mean, Guilford, I I'm sorry, I as a former school committee member, I will say that for me, this would be an issue for the town manager evaluation by the town council because there is stuff going on there. That's just a lot of poppycock. And I think we've had enough of it. I'm going to take a tragedy to fix this. Now, I would have said a shorter word instead of poppycock. But, you know, really, you know, this is this is this is a this isn't for me, this would be an issue for evaluation of the town manager. Yeah, that's not my job right now, but it used to be as chair of the school committee a million years ago. Well, when this evaluation comes up, this committee is encouraged to respond and to evaluate the town manager. I mean, there's only one way to get the town manager to make the this happen. Even it's not his to do, but he has people that he supervises that it, you know, then it belongs to them to do it. And they're just telling you at work they work. I know. Well, I will certainly send an email to the town manager. Oh, I would be happy to resend what I sent with a few more.  So I can look through it. Sure. All right. Well, while you while you look through that, I'll send an email to the town manager, the assistant town manager and the DPW superintendent, you know, sort of outlining this this long process of trying to get the information and to and that the DAC requests that the town provide a schedule of when the the pedestrian signals will be fixed. Yeah. Well, I think they need to be assessed first. Assessed. I think the DPW needs to assess them to figure out what they need to do. And I want to plan for how they're going to remediate it, whether they're going to hire because you've got all different kinds of controls. And I don't know whether there's only one person who can deal with all the controls or whether you have to get each separate company because I think there's three different types of controls. Three different manufacturers. They were purchased in different, you know, at different times. Different areas were manufactured by different companies. There's nothing sinister about what, you know, about that. But what's sinister is that they haven't been maintained. Yeah. And that's just not OK. So just to loop back to the M.O.D. grant application, I know that folks had said, you know, that. Repairing, I don't know if actually repairing audible signal is qualifies, but for replacement of them. Never mind, because we would have to they would have to evaluate them. Never mind. I was just thinking, yeah, I was just thinking, could could the M.O.D. grant cover it? And my only thought on that is because I would have. You know, me in concert with the DBW or Facilities Manager would have the control and of that project. So I would have sort of more influence of seeing things get done. Well, if some of them need to be replaced, just like the door threshold, that's, you know, there are no longer parts available. The thing needs to be replaced. That would probably qualify, but you can't get that information by October 8th. Yeah, I agree to get information about the status of them from March to now. So the problem is you don't have enough time. The ones that need to be repaired and the parts are still available. I don't think you're going to get an M.O.D. money for that. But if something's 30 years old and there's no longer parts and they need to be replaced, that would be something that would be, I would think, with a legitimate expense to put into one of these grants. Yeah. Well, maybe. All right. Well, one step at a time. I also sent that email out and when Paul does return from his vacation next week, I will set up a time to talk to him in person about about these items. So so I guess stay tuned. And yeah, and Myra, if you have a memo that you want to send, yeah. And so the next item would be the Pomeroy Village intersection intersection projects. Yeah, where are we with that? So the the town council will be reviewing the design at 20 or 25 percent. And so I don't know when that will is set on the agenda, but that is something that was agreed upon back in May, I think that. And so. I will. And so when I say town council, I don't know if it's the full town council or if it's the TSO, but once I know more information about it, I will certainly let you know. I don't know if it will be like the the sidewalk improvements project that we just reviewed earlier. So I don't know if the town council will ask for the DAC's input or or if the DAC members will just need to attend a town council meeting. And then we could discuss it on our own. So I I think because this is hasn't been really fleshed out yet, that I don't really know much other than what I just said. Well, the town council put the DAC into the boards that needed to be consulted. So I would assume that that means that every level of the project. I hope Pat, I believe. I can do a double check. I have a meeting with Lynette two o'clock, so I can do a double check about that. Oh, well, perfect timing. Yeah, no, that is perfect time. The town council reviews, I think they're reviewing it at 25 percent. It hasn't happened yet. OK, that's good. So we we need to know what they've done. And I, you know, as far as that goes in the round about how to exactly put the crosswalks, you know, where how to put the curbing that comes down to the crosswalks in exactly what, you know, what it should feel like, how you can locate it all. All of that is really important to people who have to cross the streets tactually. So that's why they need to really the nitty gritty of it is important. They could do it all right and still have it be very difficult to use. Right. So I think it's I think it's critical that we continue to be involved in that project. All right. Are we up to sidewalks? Just one moment, Pat, could you email me? What information that you get out of your two o'clock meeting? If possible. Yeah, that would be great. OK, great. We'll meet with Lynette, too. And yeah, that'd be great info. OK, so yes, the next one discussion about existing conditions on sidewalks, crosswalks and ramps in downtown. What made me put this on? Well, there are so many, but Kellogg Street, for example, doesn't even have a sidewalk for part of it. And the rest of it is in pretty bad shape. And as I when they did Triangle Street over a few years ago, they redid the sidewalk near Matun Triangle and what's that other street? Matun and Triangle and whatever that is near the high school. And they did a really nice job and it's so easy to walk there. And it's it's it's what it should be like. And that's what it is like in a lot of other places.  They're downtown Kellogg Street is downtown Amherst. And some of it doesn't have a sidewalk and some of the sidewalk that's there is very chopped up and it's not clearly, you know, demarcated. And then you look at the sidewalk, for example, on Halleck Street on Prospect Street on, you know, Amity Street. It's it's dreadful not to mention all the ones in my neighborhood where the guy on on High Street can't get. He can't even use a sidewalk because he can't get on one or off of one, let alone go along it because it's got so many routes. It's just I think I don't know what to do about it.  It's so much neglect over so many years that I don't even know how you start to fix it. But I think it's a topic that we really need to discuss. And that's why I put it on. So I can shed some light about some of the streets that you mentioned, particularly Kellogg Street. So I believe I mentioned this back in December or January. The Ben Breger, Nate Malloy and myself drafted grant proposals for our community development. Block grant on CDBG grants for town projects. And we agree that sidewalks need to be improved in downtown and, you know, throughout the town in general. And so one of our grant proposals that was submitted is for redoing the sidewalk along Kellogg Street on the side of the post office. So I guess that would be the north bound and to redo that for that that whole stretch there and then to redo the crosswalk. Two crosswalks, I believe, leading back to the bank center and making some sidewalk improvements in front of the bank center. And, you know, we're trying to find grant opportunities to so so we can sort of chip away at making improvements to to sidewalks. Another we're we're hoping that there could be a grant opportunity for redoing the sidewalk along North Pleasant Street on the side of the North Common. So across the street from from like fresh side and Hastings, that's particularly really in a poor state. So we're trying to, you know, whenever we have grant opportunities, the planning department is trying to chip away at making those improvements. Could you add the one in front of the black sheep? Because, you know, that was something. Yeah. I don't know how you do that one in a wheelchair without tipping over. Tell you the truth. Yeah, I've, you know, the building commissioner and I have spoken about that one particularly. And, you know, there was a grant application that we were looking at a couple months ago, and it was like a really quick turnaround for the grant application. And and even actually it was for the shared street project that we ultimately decided to do them. The crosswalk improvements from Potted Street and Triangle down to back over to Kendrick Park.  But there's a lot of utility underground utilities that are going to have to be reworked and a lot of grading. And so for a quick turnaround for a grant that at that at that moment, it wasn't feasible to do that. But I definitely feel that that should be, you know, a capital improvement project that is really thought out. Yeah, Maureen, there's also a spot right. There's a bus stop right near the common, the Amherst Common. And the sidewalk right around there is really, really bad as well. Yeah, is that on Main Street? It's by the North Commons. Yeah, and so that section where that bus stop is and that's where the bike, they're going to redo that. They're going to redo it as part of the North Common project. Yeah, I agree. That sidewalk needs some love and care. The part of Kellogg I was talking about actually goes all the way out to Triangle Street. Some some of the street doesn't even have a sidewalk.  I don't know, but it there isn't even a sidewalk there. I mean, that's pretty amazingly downtown Amherst, you know, one block from downtown and there's no sidewalk. And then there is a sidewalk, but it's not well done. And, you know, for those of us who are walking and trying to get into town, it's not a lot of this is just not safe because you don't even have a sidewalk. Yeah. And that's downtown. I mean, up here, there's no sidewalks where I am. And I'm sure there isn't a lot of the town. There is no sidewalks, but that's not downtown. So anyway, I don't even know it's such a huge project. But if this committee doesn't keep parking on it. I don't know if anything will ever be done. I've lived in this town for 41 years. And some of these sidewalks have absolutely never been maintained in all that time. Never. And, you know, maybe 20 years ago, they weren't in bad shape, but they are now. Anyway, that's my speech. And I don't know if it's an issue for a lot of other people besides me at least, but it's an issue. No, it definitely is an issue. Yeah. So as I said, I mean, in the next, you know, year or two when the construction starts, the the sidewalk along Kellogg Street will be replaced and the sidewalk along Main Street by the bus station will be replaced. And we're hoping that the funding source for the section along North Pleasant Street that's across from like a fresh side and Hastings Block will be replaced. So it's one of the things that all this takes, unfortunately, so much time to get from brainstorming of ideas, submitting applications, receiving money, going through the RFP bidding process takes a significant amount of time. But, you know, we are committed to making these improvements and you will you'll see these those three projects constructed in the next couple of years. So bit by bit capital planning. I don't know who's on joint capital planning. Are you on it, Pat? I guess Pat's not there. No, I'm here. I was muted. Oh, are you on joint capital planning? No, Kathy, Shane is. Because I wonder if they ever deal with this kind of stuff. And I'm wondering if you I don't know if it's if I don't know if this is your job or anything. But I wonder if it's it's so big that it is a joint capital planning issue. And I wonder if it ever gets there. I honestly don't know. I wonder if we should have Kathy Shane come to our meeting. Will we allowed to do that? Or do we invite anybody to your meeting? OK, I mean, I don't know how the committee feels about it, but it is a huge issue. It's not a little grant here, a little grant. I think maybe technically, we should be asking the town manager to have. I don't know how that works. Yes. No, but I'm not really sure. The committee and a counselor is independent of the town manager. So, yes, I would say any staff member, yes, going through Paul is critical. But for any counselor, that's an invitation that this committee can extend at any time to a counselor. We're we're not the committee of the town manager. How does the committee feel about that I'm the sidewalks? Everybody except me is quite. No, I'm for it. How do we feel about the sidewalks? They're a mess. No, about about reaching out to we love. No, good question.  Yeah, reaching out to the joint capital planning or, you know, I just feel like if we were to go through a counselor, they're elected by the people. They don't work for DPW. They don't work for the town manager, and perhaps they would have some pull. And so that's why I wondered whether it would be worth inviting Kathy Shane to talk about it. Sure, if it's going to help us. If it's anything at this point. I think Marty has raised your hand. Yeah, tangentially to this. Maureen, do you know how long the outdoor seating at restaurants is going to last? Good question. I don't know a top of my head. I can find out, certainly. I don't know if it's this year or April. I'm not I keep on getting confused. I attended a session put on by these MAAB a couple of months ago, and they were talking about these seating areas, and I don't think any of ours or very few of them are accessible. And I ran into a situation Saturday night when I went up went to pick up dinner at Vespa.  Oh, yeah, all of the sidewalk. So you have to walk in the in the. Yeah, they can't do that. I was going to say sidewalk is closed by them. And other seating areas have got. Tables and chairs in the access sidewalk. Yeah, I know that needs to be fixed. I talked to the coffee. I talked to that restaurant about it, and they said that the city, the town planner or city planner told them they had to do that. No, no, it's wrong. I hate it. It's absolutely wrong. Yeah. So there's several other places they put. I mean, Vespa's put a little wait station in the access. You know, right along where you have to walk or roll with your wheelchair to get to Amherst Cinema. That's the accessible path to Amherst Cinema is by Vespa by from the coffee shop all the way to Vespa. So between an enforcement issue. Yeah, is that who's the enforcement for that kind of thing? Would that building inspector, OK, Mara? Well, can we make a formal complaint to him to ask him to to do. That. Yeah, yeah, that has to be dealt with. That's crazy. Yeah, I was really surprised that they had cut off the only access. To paint in the ass, even if people are not in wheelchairs. Yeah, it's well, it's unsafe because there's vehicles back there. Yep. OK, more easy to speak.  Yeah, I was really surprised by that because, yeah, there's no way to do it. That's accessible. Well, we don't even need a letter for that. We just need we just need a request made by Maureen of him directly to enforce the regulate, you know, the accessibility. Yeah, accessibility. Yeah. Yeah, I'll certainly bring this up to the building commissioner. I called the town clerk about it. They told me to call the coffee shop. I talked to the coffee shop. They're like, oh, the town planner told us to do it. Come on. Well, the town. Well, somebody from the town might have told them to do it. Right. That doesn't mean it's right. They've been permissioned to do it. Somebody from the town might have said they could do it. So we don't know that they didn't. But we know that they thank you for bringing that up. That's huge. Yeah, it is huge. It is huge. Well, it's come down from the state that that these seating areas have to be accessible and they can't impede the path of travel. Can't impede. So maybe that maybe in the future, maybe some of these things that we're building now have to have wider sidewalks. You know, we have to plan for the fact that in the future and it's not only the short term future, a lot of people are going to be doing things outside, even around here, when they didn't used to need to. And we need sidewalks that can accommodate pedestrians and accessible seating. So if they're going to be building anything, including intersections, they probably need to think about that. They certainly, you know, if they're going to have any restaurants, for example, down at, what should we call it, Pomeroy? Are there, you know, maybe there needs to be a plan for a plaza there where people can put out accessible seating if they want to be able to develop that corner for businesses that have food, because otherwise they're not going to be able to provide food. We're going to be outside for a long time. I don't think this is going away. Oh, Jesus Christ. So that's a big issue. Thank you. So, yeah, let's see what happens with that. Maureen, do you want it? Can you send us a memo that it that tells us about the results of your conversation with the building inspector? Sure, that would be really good. Thanks for bringing that up, Marty. OK, so the whole subject of sidewalks. So should I invite Kathy Shane to a meeting? Because you don't want to get involved with that, Maureen, because of the town? I mean, I could invite Kathy Shane to a meeting. Yeah, no, I can certainly reach out to Kathy Shane. That's fine. OK. OK. Yeah. Sorry, I'm also writing something. Yeah, so I'm just sad of, you know, respect. I will reach out to, you know, my supervisor and just make sure that that's fine and that there isn't some sort of concern or not concern, but, you know, that I go through the proper channels of of who to ask. But yeah, I'll certainly ask her if she could attend the few in the next meeting or. I don't know the schedule for the capital planning when they develop their plans for the next year. I don't know their kind of the way they do things. But things start to come into them in the fall and then they pair things down, they get prices. So it isn't unreasonable for us to see her right away. Yeah, no, I know later than October. Yeah, all right, that's not good. September would be good if we could do it. Sure, I will say that for the next meeting, Amherst College is proposing a way finding signage for their entire campus and for. Signs within the town right of way, like in the downtown and leading up to Amherst College. The signs is to help navigate. Visitors going to Amherst College, you know, where they can find the campus, where they can find like emissions and their athletic fields and the various buildings. And so the town council has requested various boards to review their their application, including the DAAC. So I believe that the next meeting will deal with with their proposal. So OK, I don't know how long that will take. I probably will take who knows, maybe up to an hour. But maybe Kathy could either go to that meeting and go we could deal with Amherst College from 1130 to 1230. And maybe maybe Kathy should come to the following meeting just so we don't over. I just don't know what their schedule is about when they take projects. And, you know, they have a whole or there's a timeline that they have about when they have to get various things on their docket for consideration. And I don't know what it is. All right, I'll write that down. I was on that committee for five years in the 90s. So I'm sure it's changed, but I know that there's a whole timeline. It's what they have to do is pretty complicated as far as timing and decision making. So well, in my email, I just want to get on the list. Yeah, in my email to Kathy, I'll ask her when what, you know, sort of what is their schedule of of. Of handling the joint capital budget process. And maybe that will give us an indication. Okay, one thing I want to say about Amherst College and I maybe it can get to them somehow is if they're going to do all of that wayfinding signage, there are many apps now that are used by visually impaired and blind people that pick up whatever clues they tell you, there are GPS apps and they have everything labeled that's in there. You can go anywhere even on open spaces like a campus if they label their buildings correctly and if they put them in in such a way that the apps can pick them up. So you can walk around with your iPhone and find everything and find little pathways if they call it pathway to this or pathway to that that that's going to be part of what I'm going to ask of them. So, you know, because it's not only visual there are other ways to have wayfinding. And so I don't know who needs to be told about that but it would be good if somebody, I don't know who's bringing this forward. I am speaking with Amherst College as well as other staff. I'll certainly bring that up to them. So are these GPS apps? Are they kind of like a QR code? No, well they could be. You can have a QR code but there a lot of them have to do with just where you are. I can even, I can give you the names of some of them. I can send them to you. There's a couple apps. There's one, there's a couple that actually go out into Apple Maps or Google Maps but there's some that have their own. Got it. All right. Yeah, if you could send that to me. It's really, really cool. It's really cool. Could you send me if you have some? Yeah. Okay. Yeah. That would be helpful. Okay. I just thought of something. Are we trying to approve last month's minutes today? Yeah, we didn't get there yet. But do we, do we have to? We're at one o'clock now. Oh, we are. Tory, do you have a recommendation that needs to be changed or something? No, no, I just thought of it. I just thought of the minutes. Okay. Yeah, I know my name is spelled wrong a lot of times in the last month's minutes. But other than that, I didn't see anything wrong with them. Did anybody? No. All right. Can we have a motion? Yeah. And if somebody want to move to approve the minutes. I move we approve the minutes with the spellings corrected? Second. Second. Did you say second, Elise? I did. I see. Okay. All right. So we can take a vote. Elise. Yes. Tory. Yes. Marty. Yes. And me. And is Ruth here? No. No. Okay. So there's four of us. Okay. Okay. So what we need to do, we need to find out about getting a seventh member. Oh. Hopefully Paul will deal with that. I thought Ruth was here earlier. Ruth is here. She was an attendee. Oh. But she's, is Ruth here now? Trying to make her. She's trying to panelist? Yeah. I'll have to work on how I send this out to you next time. Does that mean she couldn't hear us? No, she could, she could hear, but she couldn't speak. I'm sorry, Ruth. Ruth should send a note to us if there's something she wants to say. Yeah. And it looks like there's, can we, so there is a general public comment period. Ooh. And it looks like. Do we have a general? There, it looks like someone would like to speak. So if that person could state their name and their address. Hi. My name is Tracy Zafian, and I live on Blue Hills Road. I'm in precinct four. Can't hear you, Tracy. Just like three. Can I'm, I'm, I've unmuted myself. Can anybody hear me? Yeah, I'd hear you. You're fading out. Great. Hi, so I wanted to just, I do occasionally sit in on the DAC meetings. I find them really helpful. The committee is doing such important work with accessibility. I'm currently the chair of the Transportation Advisory Committee, TAC. And I've been interested in transportation and accessibility issues for a long time. I previously served on a predecessor to the TAC back in the nineties, I guess, or early 2000s. And at that time we did have somebody who would come to our meetings, not always from the DAC, but somebody from the council on aging or other groups that were interested in accessibility issues. So it seems, I don't know how, I mean, whether this is something that the DAC might be interested in formally or informally. It does seem like our committee and your committee have quite a few areas of overlap, including in terms of our charges and the projects we look at. It is a part of our charge to look at issues of accessibility and equity, sustainability, and so on. We do want our network, our transportation network and the facilities in town to be as accessible as possible. And so I know, for example, I know that today on your agenda was the Kendrick Park North Pleasant Street project. So that project did come to the TAC. So our staff liaison for that committee is Guilford-Moring. And so we had talked about that project with him quite a few times at our different meetings. So I did have some details that were beyond what was in the memo that was sent out by the town manager and the DPW to the council, including, and I wanted to mention too, at our last meeting we met last week and one of our recommendations for the project was instead of having parallel parking on both sides of the street, if the street is changed to one way that we were recommending that you just have angled parking on the park side of North Pleasant Street and get rid of the parallel parking on the other side of the street. There are a number of potential conflicts on the other side of the street in terms of that there's a number of residences that have driveways there and some businesses that have driveways. And in terms of having pedestrian safety and good sight lines and keeping pedestrians safe, it's in even other vehicles safe, particularly if that area gets to be a lot more busy with Kendrick Park and the playground and so and we just thought it would be safer to have just parking on one side of the street and that you could add needed parking spaces by having angled parking. And Guilford Moring did attend that meeting. He said that with a proposal, our proposal to have angled parking just on the park side of the street that it would actually add more parking spaces along North Pleasant Street than the town's original plan. We also did recommend, recommend and I know you discussed this earlier in your meeting just about, you know, when there is new angled parking there, that the DAC be asked for their input about where those parking spaces should be located. We did wanna make sure that where the sidewalks are and where the parking is that it does connect to pass like into the park and to the features in the park, including the playground and so on and that the crosswalks and everything are as accessible as possible. Guilford Moring has also raised the idea of having a crosswalk. So he's already been approved and the town council has approved it to have an enhanced crosswalk with a raised crosswalk at McClellan Street in North Pleasant Street. And he's mentioned in our meetings, the DAC meetings that there could also be an additional crosswalk in north of the McClellan crosswalk like mid block and the DAC recommends that. And we think it will help with traffic calming. We had some concerns that when the street goes to one way, particularly at times of day when it may in times of year, including when you mass students aren't there and when it's the middle of winter or something that there might not be that many people parking there to visit the park. And that we were concerned that with the one way street that the traffic speeds could increase compared to a two way street. And so we did ask for that additional traffic calming measures. I mean, there are a few other things too that few other projects that I know some of them have come to the DAC and they haven't come to TAC or vice versa. I mean, I know in our recommendations for Kendrick Park we did really feel it was important for the TSO to reach out to the DAC and other committees that were relevant. So I'm really glad that George Ryan did so. I know that the DAC was involved with looking at the new projects where they're improving the crosswalks, the town's improving the crosswalks around on Triangle Street and Prey Street and right downtown, including the south side of the roundabout at Triangle Street. So one thing that I was concerned about which didn't come before the TAC but I did contact the council about it just because of my own concerns is that the planning department has gone forth with a plan to add rapid rectangular flashing beacons to help with the safety and accessibility of the crosswalks. But on the crosswalk that's just south of the roundabout at Triangle, the current plan that the planning board, I mean, sorry, the planning department presented at the town council was just to have, so that actually has five different segments of a crossing where if you were at on the park side there's a southbound lane of traffic and then a small islands and then a northbound lane of traffic for cars going straight through the roundabout and out to East Pleasant Street and then another little island and then there's a third lane of cars that are gonna be turning right onto Triangle Street. So the town, the planning department's plan was just to add rapid rectangular flashing beacons only at that third crossing, that third lane of crossing and not to have the rectangular rapid flashing beacons extend the whole length of the crossing. And we, I had concerns, and again, the tack, this never did, this didn't come to the tack, but I had concerns about if you have somebody at the park and they wanna cross safely across the whole thing that it would be insufficient to only have the rectangular rapid flashing beacons only at the last part of the crossing. So anyway, but I'm very interested in your work and I would enjoy opportunities for us to work together. And so. Tracy, thank you. Thank you. And thank you for, I mean, you probably, I've had so much company lately, I have not read the last few memos that you sent me with a lot of attention and I'm sure that information was in there and I apologize for whatever I missed. Oh, no, no, no. I mean, I just, I know, for example, I mean, I know you've discussed this, but one thing that came up is the, that one of the plans with that sidewalk Kendrick Park is part of the memo's proposal was actually to save the trees and also reduce sidewalk for Kendrick Park on the west side of the park to move the sidewalk out into the street so that you could both maintain the current large trees that are there and not damage the trees and also just make sure that the sidewalk was much flatter and wouldn't have conflicts with the trees. The other thing is on that far side of the sidewalk on the west side, I'm sorry, on the far side of North Pleasant Street, there is currently a green space there. From some of the pictures, it looks like a tree strip but there's actually no trees in that space and Gilbert Moren has mentioned attack meetings that from his conversations with the tree warden, there would never be trees in that space. Are you talking about the bump out? Where are we? No, I'm talking about on the west side of North Pleasant Street where there's a green space but he said that there's actually a gas line under there and that it wouldn't really be feasible to grow trees. In terms of that bump out, yes, there is I think like a fire hydrant there and some other features, some other structures which is why that the two angled parking spaces needed to be separated. So we are over time, but I just wanted to pull us up. So on the west side, which is where my mouse is sort of hovering. So where you see the trees shown. There are no trees there currently. But there are proposing trees. So where are you not proposing trees? But actually if you read in that memo, it proposes removing that green space completely in order to shift the street to the west in order to have a sidewalk on the east side of the street adjacent to Kendrick Park that wouldn't have conflict with the trees on the Kendrick Park side. Oh wow. So this concept plan is misleading. So they should update this concept plan and remove the strip. The green strip would be removed. And well, that's their proposal. Yeah. So that actually came up at the town council meeting where this was discussed that a few of the counselors pointed out that there were some differences between both the concept plan and the memo itself. And DPW hadn't had time and the resources to update the map. Got it. So. So just to repeat. So would this strip down here be removed as well? I think the idea, well, the idea would be to remove that whole strip. The whole strip. And also from the TAC perspective, we were interested. Well, I mean, I've walked along there quite a bit. I would actually like to maybe see a little green face left because it is nice to have it but it isn't that functional and it would never have trees. It's also a really good place to put snow. Which will end up on the sidewalk. The other thing that came up is the TAC is also interested in trying to have like some bike lanes through that area. And that if all the parking is moved to the east side of the street with angled parking, there could be some possibility of potentially having bike lanes in both directions. And with that, with a tree strip. And that wouldn't go with the tree strip plan. Are you saying that if there was angle parking on one side and bike lane on both sides or one side, if this is one way? Or who knows? It would be on both sides. It would be a counterflow lane with like separation. Sure, sure. Would there be enough room for a tree strip? Grass strip? There would not be a tree strip. Got it. Well, the main issue is that you can't have the sidewalk. Like this concept plan, it shows that the sidewalk is on the current park and the idea in the memo, it proposes in the memo from the town manager and DPW, it proposes moving the sidewalk out into the current street to eliminate the conflicts with the current trees. In addition, the north end of that park, the northwest corner of the park is very steep. And it seems like you could not, you would have to do a lot of grading or like walls or something to actually build a feasible sidewalk there if you don't move it out into the street. But... All right. Tracy... Does that change anything that we talked about? I think it doesn't, because from an accessibility standpoint, we talked about the number of parking spaces and we didn't put them at the north end. So that's good, because it's flatter where we put them. The only question is, when they added spaces, Tracy, did they go over 50? You know, we didn't do the calculations at the meeting about adding the spaces. Well, you know, if they go over 50, you have to add even more. Yeah, and so I add one more. The thing that Gilford-Morring mentioned to us is right now, like the reason he's looking for input from... I mean, the reason the TSO is looking for input from the TAC and the DAC and other committees at this point is that they're trying to formulate their work plan, their construction work plan for next season. And so he needs to have a general sense of what the project is going forward. Like if the locations of the angled parking, if some of it... I think that the concept plan is sufficient for him at this point to say, like there will be angled parking and to figure out the details of which exact spaces will be handicapped parking. And I mean, we actually had concerns that with the... If the handicapped parking was only located where the angled parking is currently shown on the map currently because we thought that some people might wanna park, have accessible parking closer to the playgrounds, for example. I'm gonna have to jump into another meeting, which will be until five o'clock. So I need to eat something real quick before my next meeting. But the DAC memo can reiterate the code that Marty had mentioned, 23.2.1, that says that two ADA spaces, including one van accessible space for 26 to 50 spaces need to be provided. And that those ADA spaces should be clustered around... The first one was at the sort of near the intersection of McCullin and North Pleasant Street. And if we want, we could say that they should, other ones if needed would be clustered along other sort of main entrances to the park, maybe here, if you can see the plan. As long as it's flat enough. Yeah, as long as it's flat enough. Yeah, so, all righty. I just wanna say, Tracy, if you're gonna come to our meetings, I obviously, I didn't know you were there. So somehow it would be really good to know if you're there because we could have had this conversation a lot more youthfully when we did it. So if you can, Maureen or somebody, whoever's looking at the list, if Tracy's ever here, we should, I would like to include her because she knows what's going on. And this was, we should have had this part of the conversation when we were talking about it. So Myra, I did raise my hand on that part of the meeting. And in one of the emails I sent you, I said I was gonna try to attend. I mean, I'm happy to just say in the background. I know that some communities... That's my fault. But some committees do have public comment at the beginning, you know, but anyway. Yeah, well, I think that we could do that. Yeah, we need to change that. Cause I'm sorry that you were not included in the important part of the conversation. And it would have been useful to have you there. And it's my wrong. Okay. Well, thank you, Tracy, for attending. And yeah, we can revise the structure of our agenda to make the public comment period at the beginning. Cause as Myra said, you know, there's definitely your wealth of information and this is very needed here in relation to your inside scoop from the TAC and working with the DPW superintendent. So thank you. So can we have a motion to adjourn? I make a motion with adjourn. That can at least seconds. Okay. Marty, yes. Yes. Vote, please. Yes. Tori. Tori's gone. Oh, she's here. Oh, she's there? Okay. She'll be willing to. Yes. Oh, okay. And me and we never got Ruth, right? No. Okay. She is there, but and she actually, her microphone is on, I think, but I'm not really sure. We shouldn't hear her. Okay. All right. Well, we have some repairs to do about our technology, but sorry, Ruth, if you had anything to say, please email it to us and we'll see you next.


On today's Visual Studio Toolbox, part five of our Entity Framework Core Series, Phil is going to put the CUD in CRUD. Hi, welcome to Visual Studio Toolbox. I'm your host Robert Green and joining me is Phil Jepixi. Hey Phil. Hey Robert, how are you? I'm great. This is part five of our Entity Framework Core Series. Correct. This is part five of the Intro to Entity Framework Core Series. The next parts will be the Advanced Entity Framework Core Series. Okay. This is the wrap-up of our introduction. In the previous episode, we looked at querying data. In this episode, we should probably look at modifying data, adding, editing, deleting. Correct. All right. All right. We talked about the advantages of the Change Tracker in episode two, and that it is tracking for all those things that change, get added, deleted, modified, so that when we call save changes on the DB context, then it all wraps up for us, creates the SQL and goes and does its thing. Let's jump into the code and actually make some changes and process them to the database. Now, I just have very simple methods here, add an item, add multiple items, and add an object graph, but I want to explain some of the setup before we dive into it. I have in each of these a local function, which is a fairly new C-sharp construct, and then I have this other helper method called should execute the transaction. The reason why I'm spending time to explain this is because if you remember from earlier episodes, I said when you call save changes on a DB context, it is automatically executing in a transaction. But we can also enlist our own transaction and use that instead of the implicit transaction that gets created. Let's go down here to this method, and it should be very familiar code. If you use transactions in ADO.NET, what I'm saying is here is my transaction on the database facade that's attached to the DB context. Remember the DB context is like the master control program or the general contractor. It then says to the database facade, hey, here's a transaction I want you to use. So then we can execute whatever we're doing in our code. In this case, I'm automatically rolling it back. This is a paradigm that I use when I'm doing integration testing against EF Core so that I always return the database to where it began. It's the same thing I'm doing in this example so that we don't mess up the data as we run through these samples. This is showing how you can use your own transaction with EF Core. Again, if I didn't do this and I just call save changes, then it would happen in its own transaction. Does that make sense, Robert? Yes. Okay. So if I want to add an item, we should probably call save changes. So here I create a new person object, and I add it into the DB set that's person. That's the specialized collection on the context that holds all the person objects.  But in our case, it's actually going to get plugged into the transaction that I've created so I can roll it back. So what this does is creates a SQL statement that says insert into person and just these fields right here. Now, the other thing that this does for us is executes any server-side things. That is, for example, row version, fields or computed columns, I should say, and sequence. So if the primary ID, the primary key was a sequence, what comes back on this person object are those fields. So it's a two-step process, calls into the server, does its changes, but then it returns basically scope identity and populates our person objects with those server-side fields. So as a developer, I don't have to go back and say, tell me what the primary key is. So it keeps it in sync. Now, that's a simple add. We can also add a list of items and that is done by calling add range. So this will take each of those items in a transaction, or all of those items in a transaction, and then attempt to save them to the database. Now, if we had a unique constraint on first name or last name, this would obviously fail and then what comes back is, and we'll talk about this in a later episode and how we handle the different exceptions coming from the database, but this would throw a DB update exception and enable us to figure out what happened as developers, but we're keeping these episodes very straightforward. The final thing I want to talk about is adding an object graph. So here I have a person object, and then adding to their email address collection, and as we've said throughout this show, we should have called that email address says, but we're adding this email address into the collection. What I can do is just call add on that person, and it also knows that this email address was added to that person collection, that will build the appropriate SQL to add all the objects all the way down. So add the object graph for you. Now, to delete an item, very simply, we're going to go back to the change tracking, and we're going to go into the delete entity right here, and we call remove. Now there's a couple of different ways we can do this. So the first one is to call remove on an object that is in the collection. The other way is to set the entity state to delete it. Remember when we called remove on this, and we showed the entity state back in Episode 2, it showed up as deleted. If we don't have it in the collection, we could say context.entry, and actually I want to copy it from up here. Usually we have these pre-baked, but sometimes we go off script, and in this case, we're going off script. So here is another option that I don't have it in the collection, and for example, maybe I know the primary key. So I can create a new person object that just has the primary key. I don't have to query the database to get it back. I set the state to deleted, and then I can call save changes, and it will still execute the deleted statement. Then the remove doesn't literally, that doesn't send the SQL back either until you call save changes. Right. Correct? Okay. Yeah. So nothing happens in the entire world until save changes is called. Yeah. Okay.  Right. So it's really pretty simple. Right? Yeah. The thing that you want to remember is that save changes will save everything that's in the change tracker and marked as has some change.  Right. You can also create your own transaction. Why would you need to create your own transaction? Let's say you were going against two different tables, and you wanted to run a process, the typical accounting example, I'm going to withdraw money from one account and deposit to another account, but maybe they weren't in the same transaction, or sorry, maybe they weren't in the same database. So I have different contexts. So I'm going to wrap each of those in my own transaction, so that I make sure that they both work without error and then I can commit them. Right. The possibilities are endless of how you can work with the transactions and everything else. But I wanted to get the basic save, update is for modified, remove is for deleted. I showed you we can also just set the deleted status and call save changes, and then add, and then there's the range version of all these, add range, update range, delete range, and that works on an IE numerable. So do you ever use setting the state to deleted versus explicitly removing? So for deleted, I almost always set the state to deleted and do it this way, because the advantage is, if I am caught, let me add some notes here, right? This must be in memory. This isn't in memory, and what I mean is retrieved from database. Okay. So if you, if this is a case where you call up the record, you look at it and then there's a delete button, then it's in memory and you can just remove. But if when you remove that, you also remove data from three other tables behind the scenes, then it's easier to do the state to deleted. Is that correct? So, no. Let me back up because I want to talk about the difference between a web world and an always connected world like WPF. So let's take your first example. I'm looking at a screen and it shows a customer record and I want to delete it. Right. Right. If I'm in a web world, the work has been done to retrieve that record. Now I hit the button, it's going to post back to the server, and the server then has to, it's got the primary key from the form collection has got some other values, but now I have to delete it. If I want to use the remove method, I have to query that record from the database to get it into the DB set to call remove on it. So I'm doing an extra database call just to turn around and delete it. But if you've already retrieved it to display it, isn't it already in memory? No, because we're in the web world, that's all I want to make the distinction. If I'm in the web world, I've done a get, right? Now I'm disconnected. Yes, the data is displayed, but I do not have it in the DB context because at the end of that request, that DB context gets recycled. I see. So now I'm doing a post. So on the post, through the DI container within ASP on a core, it's creating a new instance of that DB context or getting it from the pool, the DB context pool. But either way, it's clean. There's nothing in it. So in the web world, I use this paradigm right here, almost exclusively. I've got the ID, I've got the row version for concurrency which we'll talk about in later episode. So then I say, okay, make me a new person with this ID and this row version set the state to deleted call save changes. Got it. Got it. In a WPF world, where we're always connected, and I've already retrieved it and I do have it in memory, and there's a button that says delete, then I'm going to call remove because I'm not recycling the DB context on every call. Right. Okay. Perfect. You can also do this with modified and added. It adds a layer of complexity that's not worth it. Just using the regular update and add is what I find to be the best way. But again, which way you delete depends on whether you're in a web world or a WPF style world. All right. So that is persisting data in a nutshell, and honestly, there's not a whole lot more to it. What I wanted to build to, if you were, this were the crescendo of this masterpiece that we have of the EF Core series for beginners, or for people new to EF Core, is because of the change tracker, because of all the plumbing work that is done by EF Core, when it actually comes time to do the work of adding and removing and updating entries, you see how easy it is, right? I pull a record back from the database, I make some changes on it, I call the update method to tell EF Core that I want to update this, and then I call save changes, and all that plumbing work is done for us. What I can concentrate on as a line of business developer is what the business wants to see in their application. Right. Fantastic. All right. So that wraps up our beginning, our new two overview of Entity Framework Core. Correct. We will start a new series sometime soon where we get into more advanced topics, but this is awesome. Again, all of the code is up on GitHub. There'll be links to it in the show notes. I hope you guys have enjoyed this. Let us know what you think as always, and we will see you next time on Visual Studio Toolbox.


What's going on everybody? Got Kyle and Matt here with Layton Sports Cards. We've been two boxes 2023 Bowman Draft Jumbo Both these are gonna be for Mr. Chris S. Good luck Chris. Let's see what we got sir Last break of the new year for Layton Sports Cards Chris got the last one last spot mojo Last spot mojo here Yeah, there's some some weird stuff going on the NFL today. I'm glad I I'm glad I refrain from the bedding so much today Still still a DK and DK Javante Williams, man 87 points. I'm not out yet. I'm not out yet DK Javante can get 87 Hello Hello, Jake. I pulled the Zack Neto's first base logo man. There's a light blue first Maui Ahuna There's a first Jaworski and Nathan Dettmer. Yeah, right? That's some uh, it's a pretty prestigious logo man right there Plus it's got the hollow. Yeah, it's from his it's from the first game. It says first base hit. That's pretty sick.  Yeah, that was embossed. Look at the look at the card that the stick, you know It's the first Justin Reimer. Huh? Look at the card in front. First Justin Reimer got a first bowmeister Carlos Jorge Bro What? Yeah, the scoobal Spencer's trying to buy it Spencer's trying to buy that also with the netto look at the whole box. There was a there was an Adley RPA There's an Adley Otto. There was a whole box as far scoobal do 2199 we got Eric baton T scoop scoop scoop. There's a capis. I could use a scooby snack right now From the base It's on the base 499 got Jason Savakul That's crazy from his first to hit 75 got a yellow Stash pools are wowing co-workers. That's right, Tim. That's what I do That's what I do orange paper. This one's gonna be a Coleman Picard First orange. Yeah, it was a good couple boxes for sure We pulled another First case I had my phone up for a while while you guys are parcels and it died Didn't want to didn't want to keep her it got close to dying at least to like Bigger Riley green patches. Let's go Spencer likes that. It's a refractor first Jacob Gonzalez Bad There's a first tray Morgan Michael Arroyo Monjuvante Williams get 200 yards couple of them There's a Otto Brock Braden Burton first for my aunt Yeah, I'm cross Probably should go on tea over Tea gets 80 I'm gonna be pissed 87 I'm gonna be so pissed There's a Bowman glass wide Langford first of Teddy McGraw and Philip Abner That's packing three packs and a box to go. I'll be it for today. There's a 199 Brady Smith future White and a clerk I Got you. That's true. That's true. We're almost done though. So I'm gonna leave it for now I know what you mean though. We uh, we started an evening and then change it to morning now We got to change it back There's a Jackson Meryl in the light blue and a One's gonna be lunar glow first how to pull first white Langford and shown weather Been pulling too much fire Eddie. We can't stop can't stop man There's a blue gonna be Kendall George on the blue wave to 150 first moment for the Dodgers First Maui ahuna and Jackson Meryl Alrighty, alrighty guys one more box one more box of 2023 late in sports cards right here last box for Chris. That's good luck my man Come on Chris Brady Otto's been waiting for us. Come on Chris. It's been waiting for the last box of 2023 Come on Brady's been simmering He wanted to go out with the bang Good luck Chris. It's a 90 now. We got a first Hunter Holland first green paper Skeens Kunya and Zach Levinson refractor first Come on Got it in the last box with the with the bang. There's a first zander mooth Otto there for the Pirates First Cheerio and Jonah Cox refractor. There's a baseball factory Otto that one's gonna be a Blake Mitchell Nice one there insert Otto um It's on-car baseball factory from the Under Armour All-American game. Nice one there. That is the Royals Royals first pick in the draft Blake Mitchell first is gonna be Noble Meyer and Travis Honeyman The honey man Yeah, it's kind of crazy the the bangles with their season only one game behind the Chiefs That is pretty crazy. They haven't had Joe Burrow in like four or five weeks, right? That's pretty crazy at the beginning. They don't have them either. Yeah, that's true Green green grass is Nelson Rada 99. That is crazy First Ramirez and Christian Campbell and the the Browns are two games ahead of the Chiefs. That is also crazy. That's what yeah It's also crazy. I guess one game if the Chiefs win today, but Joe Flacco has been killing it man. I've been a very breast There's a Langford insert first may he a and salty bottom like blue first is gonna be to 499 Brandy winnaker Yeah, they get the L finally. Oh boy 250 is Brayden Taylor first purple for the Rates Spencer, what did you think of last night's game? I haven't heard this from you yet first refractor Carson rocket fortnight I have to imagine you probably didn't like it too much It was a weird weird ending weird ending for sure. They had three chances at the second two-point conversion. I've never seen that before three different two-point conversions There's a light blue first gonna be Chase Davis Coddals First Riley and Seth Keener, right last few packs. Good luck here Chris Brady mom Brady Brady Last pack or last couple packs of the the year got to be there's another one. It's gonna be base. I don't kindle George Ace auto kindle George had the blue in the last one Rainer Arias Thornton and Tayshon Walton. Yeah, I saw if they were down. I knew it was to the Cardinals That's uh That is definitely something That is definitely something. Oh man glasses Dylan Hett Got a first Clifford and Grant Taylor first refractor No, no, dude, there's a crater 199 Mike Bovee. Yeah, Sean. Yeah. Yeah, I feel you so Huffle and Jill Whitman. So painful. Did you decide purple or black Sean? Oh Man right good luck here Chris last Last box. There's a Marcello Meyer then we're glow Brooks Lee and Zomatello and last pack Last black of 2023 right here last pack Paper well Emerson and last one's gonna be an auto Andrew Picney to 199 on the aqua lava Auto for the nationals Drew Gilbert and max Anderson refractor All righty, all righty there mr. Chris that will do it that will do it Two boxes of bowman draft jumbo appreciate you as always my man. We will get those right out to you, sir


That's my message one that whatever anyone does today in a pathway towards sustainable development it has to be connected across scales from the local to the global and the second key message is that because we're in such an urgent state because we have to transform the world in one generation I would say it is worth for all initiatives coming out of such a you know profound and talented and dynamic group as the Edmund Hillary Fellowship Group to be courageous to think big to dare step out in the deep end of the pool and say okay I had this great idea I want to test it locally but let's also think a bit crazy think a little bit big how could we have this multiply across regions across nations even reach the whole world because today we are in an era of great turbulence but we're also in the era of exponential change and we know that through the digital revolution that we're entering through the enormous technological advancements we're seeing we can accomplish you know change at scale in a way that would never ever been even able to think of before but now we can envisage that local can go global very fast and I think this is the time to really really endorse that


but on this journey, especially when my mom started to really lose a lot of her hair, one of the things that I always felt and I've really struggled to try to overcome that is I believe there's a stigma at times attached to the word wig, you know? And it's like people that want to admit they wear alternate hair, right? Enhancements, or enhancements. But we have no problem talking about eyelashes exactly, or people having, you know, Botox or just different skin things or plastic surgery. Or even nails, right? You want to know where you're at, Lee? Well, it's so cool.  I really try to, you know, bring back the fashion with wig wearing, too.  Wearing wig is glamorous.