Greetings. We'll give folks a few more minutes to be able to come on in. Good morning. Just holding for like a few more folks to be able to join. That is all. All right, with Cornelia coming in that gives me quorum. So. Hooray. I'll go ahead and kick us off because we've got a lot to do today. Welcome to your to see meeting for March 15, 2022. We have some anti stress policy applies here. You have made it to the meeting. Well done. Or you're watching it on the recording to see members track different to see it and tracker and the public doc. And here we go. We have our annual reviews. This is the first time we've done this in an open meeting. So bear with us. There might be some questions around how we all do things. There's some pieces in the annual review process about how three particular to see members need to be able to vote for it. I think we deal with that at the end, unless dims I see you nodding and being able to have like other other opinions, but I know, just go for it. Okay, no, that's basically like that. There's some procedural things that I know that we need to work out so I will get us started in here. What we've done as far as like to see kind of like reviewing all of these animal reviews is each individual project that came in for this morning, because we were doing this last week and a little bit today has a TOC kind of sponsor attached to them that they've gone through and actually reviewed so as we move towards each of them, I will pass towards that particular member if I see them here if they're not, I'll take it. So with that, I'm going to pass us to Kuma and Emily is one big running with Kuma on this one. Hello, everyone. So thank you so much for submitting your annual review we've gone through and taken a peek at it and also checked some status information about the project looks like you all have been making some excellent work on getting adopters of the project. I wanted to understand a little bit more of your perspective on some of that adoption, do you see any challenges, or any opportunities over the next year, if Kuma is on the call and can answer. I'm not currently seeing anyone from Kuma on the call. There's a lot of folks running around in here so this is one of the things we can kind of like ask afterwards. Okay. I guess we can ask it afterwards so looks like widespread adoption. They had some key call outs for things that they wanted to get done before incubation so in addition to those, based off of review of the repository there looks like there could be some more work that could be done to better prepare the project for all of the requirements that come with incubation and all of the additional exposure and opportunity with that. So, I'd be happy to follow up with Kuma offline after this to discuss what some of those key items are that I think would be beneficial for the project to be able to move forward. And it looks like they had some outstanding requests of CNCF to be able to assist the project and their readiness for incubation. Is there anything else that I missed Amy? I had a question about one thing on the slide which was, we don't do any sort of tracking of, you know, where things are installed or used right now. So I don't know if there is precedence in our community to be able to do that. There is. So we do have the ability to be able to go through a telemetry policy and kind of walk this through legal and all of that so if projects want that, the best example that I have for you right now is, I think it's a spinnaker project. Don't quote me on that directly because I haven't looked at this in a bit but we do have a policy and projects can go through this. Okay, perfect. Yeah, let's go over and chat if you're curious about this and you wanted to be able to like, you know, figure this one out. Yeah, it'll be interesting to have something for us, which will work based off what is in the LF one I guess. Thank you. Last call for anyone from Kuma. If you have any on the call. Emily, did you already leave some of these questions in their PR? Yeah, I'm going to be following up probably with the community directly instead of on the PR because some of them are outside of the annual review comments and the discussion that's there. But I wanted to follow up with Amy just to make sure that I've hit all the buttons that I need to. This is intended to be a lightweight just review intended to be like hey project, how can we help with one note if a project asked for marketing help directly I didn't put it in the slides because that's not something we can offer for sandbox projects. I fully understand where the request is coming from and there's it's just not available. I think by this time, all of them should have access to service desk at least right. Oh yeah everybody's got access to service desk they can come by and ask us questions or any of that. Anything that they're really like, like super fired up about. I'm going to ask them to put in the service desk so I can track it and get it to the appropriate team member. Perfect. Thank you. Yeah. No worries. All right. Okay, open cruise. I cannot remember who had open cruise. I know it's one of you. Harry, I know you're on the call. Or you were. Hello, come on in Harry. Yeah, so I still will summarize on the open cruise project. This project in general it growing fast in terms of the open source community. As we can see it's in its adoption that they have the option documentation, which has very diverse adopters. I mean, companies from both China US Europe, they're trying to they have adopted this project in production which is very good side, including several of the mainstream companies like lived LinkedIn. We're using open cruise to solve the problems like how to deploy applications in web scale. This is also the good side. And when we look at the implementations of details open cruise, I will say, it is on the right track by position by positioning itself as a tool set to help. So it is a tool set or large size companies to deploy to use Kubernetes at large scale by providing features like in place upgrade to manage study cards at massive scale. There are many features which cannot be found in option Kubernetes, but still needed by many many companies in their own user scenarios that's why I feel it's complimentary to the existing community instead of saying a fork or I know people are asking why don't you send it back to option because the option had its own goal had its own feature state. And those cases which has been headed by open cruise, mainly target on massive scale enterprise scale, you know, we should have some tools that will help that. I feel that open cruise also on that track on the right track in the in terms of that part. And the last is the open cruise containers also asking for a move to next move to next stage, which I personally feel they are almost ready for that. So I would like to see that improve the contributes contributor diverse and to the further stage. Note that today they already have a diverse mentorship in a project. I think they are also on the right direction in this part. Yeah, this is a men's summary from my side. Thank you, Harry. Any other comments from the group anything else that we wanted to be quick. I'm not actually seeing any of the open cruise folks online. So I'll hold for a moment for them. I don't know which tag go but cruise is under. It should be a tag app delivery. Okay, thank you. But also be the tag runtime so kind of a close to two different aspects. Right. Thank you for that review. Any other questions. I will look forward to seeing their incubation request then it sounds like that's for their heading. Passing to Kyverno, and you're up. Yes. Hi. So Q and I has been doing well. You know, so Q and no, have, you know, they were looking at different statistics and stargazers issue creators commitors. Everything is going up. They have a whole bunch of commitors from different sites. So that's a good sign. I believe they also asked us to they started the process for incubation, which is really good. In general, they have been trying to do the right thing across. But what they do, I did have a few questions in the PR itself and Jim from the project. You know, give me the details like I was asking where are the design docs. You know, what is a plan for, you know, the salsa levels that they were talking about for the security chain. The other one that I had a question about was zoo. I think they're lying a little bit on things like zoom. They haven't switched over to a community thing yet they are still using the one from the company that Jim represents. So I think they think we fixed that but I appreciate bringing it up. I'll check in on that one. Thank you. This was five days ago that he said that they haven't switched over yet. Maybe we have already minted one but they just haven't updated the calendar. It could be just that. The one question that you know they were facing about was like how do they, you know, they are up against for example, OPA folks right like OPA has already established and it's using CKS and things like that. So I'm going to figure out like how do we go to the point where we are listed alongside of OPA in the various things that CNC has or the documentation that we have in different repositories and things like that. And that's a fair question and you know I was going to probably point out like, hey, let's get you through incubation and then as part of incubation will work on these things will identify a set of things to do and go around, you know, getting help from other people to go do that. So I do not have any concerns at this moment and I'm looking forward to reviewing the, you know, incubation DD and other materials for Q and O. Thank you. Any questions anyone. Anybody from the project here and mute. Yeah, go ahead. Anybody from the project here. It's shooting down here. I'm from Kyrona community. I actually my first time joined this meeting because I saw the message that you said it's an open meeting so welcome everybody to join so that's why I'm here and I believe Jim already like answered most of your questions in that any review and we're also working on the DD doc for the incubation application and you know happy to any other like food the questions offline, but regarding that zoom link we had like problem posting it or like live stream it on the YouTube so any reference or the resources that I can refer to. Yes. I know that I've got an open loop with the project on this one. I will wake that one up and give you the resources for how to be able to do all of that. So, that sounds good. Yeah, totally fair. Let me go do that now. So, otherwise forget. Okay. Any questions for us that you might not have added in the PR shooting. Not at the moment. I'll post if I have any further questions afterwards. But thank you so far. Yeah. Amy, we are ready to go to the next. Thank you. All right. Nope, that's perfect. So thank you and thank you to project for showing up. Hey, I wasn't sure if it was going to work and it did. Yeah. Nope, that is great. I'm cert manager kicking on through here. I'll take Ricardo. Thank you. Okay, thanks. So, I went through the review of the project. The first item about adoption, it's quite clear that the adoption is very good to this project. The slide channel has, I think over 6000 members and quite active. And the same is true for the help. I would also highlight there. There was an effort from the project to move away from the jet stack organization github and similar things. There was one item left, I think, which is a reference to just stack on the project website. Maybe we can, we can check that one as well. So for the other items here in this slide, the incubation process has actually already started so I think the due diligence and the suggested security audit will help the project a lot. So a couple of items that I went through and I see Joachim is here so maybe he can comment as well but one thing that seems to have been done is improving diversity in maintainers but it's still like maybe not where the project would like to be. So maybe my question would be, is there something we can help in that process. So some things are, even if there's a huge adoption the users page in the GitHub doesn't really reflect this so maybe it could be updated. And I think the roadmap as well could get a quick update. Also in the annual review that they would like assistance from the CNCF regarding their transition to use CNCF based infrastructure, and also managing of project life cycle and members joining and leaving the project and getting credentials. So I guess the CNCF service desk is the best place to handle those. So probably that's, that's what I think should be pointed to. I think that's all I have maybe Joachim do you have any comments or anyone else. Thank you Ricardo. So to address some of the points you mentioned on contributor diversity for example it's something that we discussed and we're working on lowering the threshold for contributions to make it easier for for more people to open PRs and work with Cirque Manager. We've also discussed how to add more information to our list of users so we're going to be a bit more proactive in reaching out and asking people to contribute specifically to that list of users of the software. Awesome. Yeah, I saw that the number of contributions is actually quite high for like punctual contributions maybe I don't know how to motivate people to become more active maintainers of this part of the project and engage a bit more. Not an easy thing. Yeah, I agree. Yeah, I guess the challenges a certain manager works, you know, very well so people don't need to feel the need that they have to do more I guess. But they don't see all the things you know that could be done I guess they'll just see what what doesn't work for them and have like a small patch for just that right. Exactly that's the kind of threshold we want to lower so that when questions come in we can encourage them to open a PR themselves so we want to make sure that threshold is very low to make it super easy to start contributing. Overall, there's a lot of process progress. Really nice to see. And Ricardo hold that thought because I will ask you how you're doing on the due diligence for this particular project the end. So we had the kickoff meeting last week, and we already have like the template documents and the first steps aligned. So we'll keep the regular meetings to move things forward. No that's perfect. This is exactly what we would want to see for projects that are looking to be able to move to incubation like please do your annual review which shouldn't be that hard. I would actually give you a good guideline about whether or not you're ready to be able to go for incubation so thank you project. Anything else. All right schema hero. And this one is Justin Cormack. Yeah. So I think that the, you know, the most obvious thing looking at this project is that it's got little visible adoption. They have an adopter's file that only has replicated originally donated the project and have all the maintainers still in the adopter's file and there's not a lot of community activity and slack or issues or peers. So the project really needs to work on, you know, working out why people are adopting it and helping them, you know, helping people get on board. I think some of it is because people haven't heard of the project maybe but it's also I think partly because people probably already have homegrown solutions for this problem that they already have. And certainly I was asking around internally at Docker and that was the case with us and I kind of pointed to the Moschima era and said, like, here's a tool you can look at instead of something homegrown but I think that that's probably what the competition is to some extent. There's not been, I think that the roadmap's not been updated much since the project came into the sandbox and it couldn't use some work as well. But I feel that adoption is the main thing that this project needs to focus on really over the next few months and just try and, you know, maybe just spend more time talking to users about what the barriers to adoption are and, you know, really treating it as a, you know, as a time to spend, you know, spend time talking to users and work out if you're solving the right problems, why people aren't adopting and what kind of plan to fix that. Absolutely, Cornelia, I totally agree that the declarative scheme is a fabulous idea. So, you know, we have to kind of see why is this why is this not getting any traction and how can we help and how can the, you know, how can the project engage more with users and get them to understand what a fabulous idea this is. Is anyone here from Schema Hero who'd like to speak? Hi, Justin, I'm here. I definitely hear what you're saying and completely agree with both points. One that we need to really work on adoption we have a few folks that we're trying to get to list as in the adopters file like they're early it's still not a massive number, but that is our primary focus and I think like more than adding new functionality in like that is has to be our focus right And I think that's, yeah, like we call that out I think also in like both in adopters and in like additional maintainers outside of the contributing organization here, it just has to be a thing that we work on right now. Yeah, I think that, yeah, let's let's spend some time talking about it and working on working on strategy for for Because I'd like, you know, love to see one day to help you. Yeah, I mean I think you kind of the challenge that we have right now where the folks who do see it, you know, have started to adopt it and they like it it's slow traction for us right now. But, you know, nobody's heard of it yet, even on this call, you know, we're seeing comments that people are seeing it for the first time so you know it's like that's the challenge and I understand that as a sandbox project is very limited, you know, marketing help that we're going to be able to get from the CNCF directly so we, you know, we understand that that's the big challenge that we have a history now. I asked on the chat, what's the closest alternative to schema hero? Is there one in CNCF or elsewhere? I do think that the competition is something you built yourself internally, I mean, certainly, certainly when I asked internally, that's, you know, we've built we built something that we've been using in this kind of a kind of works ish, you know, and I think that's, that's probably. I don't know, Mark, do you know anything that's directly. There's, there's like tools like liquid base as an example they have a commercial and an open source offering, you know, and we've actually spent some time talking to the team at liquid base on how we can collaborate with existing tools that are out there to kind of bridge that gap for people who have already adopted tools. Yeah, fly away there's also, you know, some tooling like, you know, rails or Django have built in orms which handle it so like that makes schema hero not really applicable to projects like that and then yeah like, you know, we came from a background where we were writing go code and we like to exactly with Justin saying homegrown solutions built on top of goose and other open source repos that handle schema migrations but not like out of the box project and certainly the reason that we decided to put it in the CNCF really was because there was nothing else in the cloud native landscape as a purely open source open governance model that handles this problem very specifically. So if I like had just asked a question if it's complimentary or replacement to liquid base. You know, I think it's definitely complimentary, it could be a replacement for some specific use cases, but liquid base does more than schema hero does today. And so we think that there's like a potential, you know, solution where it's complimentary where it handles schema migrations and doesn't handle data migrations, getting really into the weeds and the project actually does but there is, it's not an attempt to like, replace a bunch of other tools that are out there like schema hero really is a very specific targeted like Kubernetes operator for deploying schema migrations. Well hopefully we picked up some adopters from this call. I love that. I guess the other question I have is like where in companies is cloud native journey, would they like look for, you know something, you know that schema is hero provides. Is it like early in the order, you know, like, is it early, is it late. So, where we've seen early adoption is like when folks start really adopting get ops as a deployment model where their CI process is like they're using flux or our go or some other get ops tool to do it and they don't want an out of band schema migration they want to like, like tightly couple those schema migrations in with the application deployment it doesn't have to be late in the adoption. You know, once you have Kubernetes though it's, it's viable. So the follow up to that would be like, do we need to do something with those projects so that you know schema hero will come up in the conversation. When people are adopting the CACD frameworks and trying to migrate applications there. That's, that's a great suggestion we haven't talked about or thought about that yet like that's definitely a good idea. Okay, thank you. I have a question before we moved on. You had a note in here about being added into the certified Kubernetes was like security specialist piece. Talk to me more about that. I think that was intended to be something like this, the CKA exam not the CKS exam. And that's fine I was just like the describe for me the wish more directly. You know, if you know one of our instances like managing database migrations using control and in Kubernetes native tooling is. That's one area that we seem to hit a little bit of challenges with some folks where developers were managing database migrations and now if you have an SRE team or an ops team that's actually managing it because they're managing it in the cluster, you shift the task of that and the ops team or the SRE team needs to be able to understand schema migrations a little bit more so having a question or two or some kind of introduction to that topic exposes Kubernetes administrator more to managing schema migrations. And also honestly like there was a big part of it for like, you know, just visibility about the project. That's why I was like, I need more context I think. Okay, I will go ask like the team that does all of that like what their cycle for being able to update things looks like. So, thank you. Thank you. All right, I'm actually going to move us like technically we should have Provega coming up next, but I don't have that particular to see member on the call just yet. So I'm going to move us on to network service mesh and we'll come back as I say Aaron join. Okay, so I was the one that read through the network service mesh docs. And to be honest, it looks pretty good like there's a good amount of diversity in maintainers and contributors. There weren't really any asks from CNCF for the TOC the team said that they were pretty happy with the support they're getting the biggest kind of concern is that there are things that they will get an incubation that they would love to get now but I think that's a concern of almost any sandbox project. I think the most interesting conversation to have with network service meshes around adoption, and there were a few comments and adoption in the doc, and then I think Frederick is here and I think he's probably the best person talk about adoption I know that this conflicts with their weekly project meeting so I want to give him a chance to speak up since he skipped that to join us. Thank you. So, in terms of adoption to understand where we are. There's, there's a couple things that have to happen so it's not like you just suddenly say hey there's an end user wants to use it. They go and install it and then they move forward. So the adoption requires something that never service mesh itself controls. So, in other words, if you, if you want to have a data plan or something, look up to it. And then their service mesh would interact with that thing and then, and then from there the end user could then use that to coordinate multiple disparate systems, as if they were one thing, across vendors. And so, in terms of adoption, we've, we've been working with a few, with a few vendors. We have comments from both Cisco, I think Cisco is a comment on their Ericsson, and, and Intel within the, within the, within the review. Unfortunately, there's not much where I can say in there what's, what's in there is is the blessed approved versions. But I can say that there's, there's a lot of active work going on in order to provide additional, that additional vendor support. So, from the consumer side and I come from a consumer company. I'm at, at Anthem, and we're, we're looking at catching it on the other side and we want us to look at how do we install this on our systems in order to allow us to automate several tasks that right now require various people and tooling and so on, that in order to take tasks that often are required to do, and to shrink it down into weeks or possibly minutes worth of time once you get the initial, the initial approvals. So, so on the, on the end user side, I'm also expecting some of the work as the vendor start to start to come out of their, their business and start pushing into the public. I am expecting to see a lot more adoption in network service mesh over over time as, as those companies start to ramp up their, their delivery of their various things that they've been building. At least that's my expectation. Does that help answer the question in terms of like, like why we are where we are and where we live. It makes sense and I hope to add for a while yesterday because we had the, the TOC liaison network tag meeting yesterday as well so I think all of my questions are answered I don't know if anybody else, either from the TOC or anyone else on the call has questions or if we're good to move on. Yeah, I have one. Which industry vertical segment would like be a starting point like I see Ericsson here and I see a few companies in the telcospace is telco, you know, a starting point for people adopting NSM. I have one possible starting point but I mentioned that I came from a, from a consumer based CNC of consumer point of view, and so Anthem is healthcare. So we're, we're, I think in the fortune, top fortune, Fortune 25 and our healthcare company. So for, for us, having something in, it's not simply just like hey let's go target, let's go target telco. There's very, there's a very real use case around enterprise and automating various various systems within, within very enterprise type systems. Okay, thank you. Any other questions for network service mesh. All right, I'm going to move us back to Provega. Aaron passing to you. Hi, sorry. Hello. Hello, your mic works. Yay. Go ahead. So, Provega has actually had a really healthy adoption and contribution since they first presented to the tag for sandbox a while ago I mean they've had 76 different releases. They have had a very diverse set of contributors and customers adopting the technology. So what is Provega. I would say, you know, at a high level, it definitely is comparable to Kafka and pulsar, you know, it's, it's a distributed messaging service that works on streaming, I think it's pretty unique in terms of the different storage possibilities within the CNCF so I like that it offers a little bit different set of features that aren't typically available in our standard kind of storage solutions. And so they have a diverse set of use cases that is continuously growing on the CNCF website you can see, you know, kind of a comparison of the different features available between Kafka and pulsar and how it differentiates which I think is really important when we consider taking projects from sandbox to incubation that is one of the standards is how is this different and it's clearly articulated through that. Unfortunately, GitHub doesn't give you like a year long view of how many contributions commits and things are going so I think, you know, just triggering off the releases, I think we can conclude in the number of people who are contributing to it from a year ago that it is healthy. If there is a lot of interest and it's unique. And so, are there any questions I know I went through that rather quickly. The only project only thing that wasn't updated was not on the CNCF per Vega site but per Vega project site, the roadmap seems to be a little bit lagging behind so that would be one thing that I'd want to make sure is updated before we went further is to understand all the different things that they've put for different releases how does that fit into the roadmap into the current timeline. So we've been pretty accurate on the roadmap but but yeah I think we have the old version that shows some released. We'll get that updated real quickly. Great. Thank you Derek appreciate it but other than that here, I'm excited about the project I actually was in when it still was a sig when you all presented and then became a tag so personally familiar with the project and I think it's has great momentum. Great thanks it's good to hear your perspective on that there's several of us here too I don't know if any of the other steering committee members want to speak up. I just want to say because I did the original sandbox review for Prevega when I'm really pleased with the progress it's been making since it's joined the sandbox because I remember, you know, having those discussions with you and it was a very early, you know, from the adoption point of view is very early stage back then and I'm really pleased to see how it's come on in the sandbox. Yeah, I think our challenge is having qualified end users as adopters. So we have, you know, several vendors that have adopted or a lot of adoption is maybe early in the prototypal stages or, you know, we're seeing a lot of adoption in the flint community, especially in China. But we need to see people get to production and then be willing to publicly acknowledge their use of Prevega. And that's, you know, as we head towards incubation I think that's our roadblock right now. Anything else that we can hear from the project or just general questions. That was all I had any so. Okay. All right, thank you Prevega and thank you for dropping in. Move us back to Athens and that I believe is Matt Farina. Yes, no, I had to go find that mute button. I don't need myself. Hello. So, um, Athens deals with well authentication authorization stuff, and they aren't going for incubation anytime soon. So the project is mostly developed out of Yahoo and Yahoo Japan, which are two distinct legal entities if I understand it right. And it's mostly worked with Azure and AWS. The contributions come from these organizations. In fact, if I look at contributions for the last few months, there hasn't been any from any other outside organizations, but it is actively developed by them and being actively worked on and used by them. It's one of those areas they know they need to improve on and they just started collecting those who are actually using it. So they just started trying to collect that and get that information. There is somebody Vespa who's looking at adding GCP support to work with their system. And so there might be some expansion there coming, but there is active ongoing development around it. They're just not seeing a lot of community growth and those other things put into it right now. In fact, if you go to the website, it reads a lot like a product thing without a whole lot that says here's kind of how you get involved if you're going to go contribute or be involved in that community. I think that's the project with us today. We have them. I'd love to hear from you. Yes. Hi, this is Abhijit. So I'm one of the contributors of Athens. Great. Or the maintainer of Athens. Fantastic. So yes, as you had rightly pointed out adoption is something which we are going to concentrate on and so we have been working on a couple of features and Athens is in the security space for authentication and authorization so the primary use case for it is the service to service authentication. So all the use cases for MTLS within Yahoo is using Athens to do so and in addition to that Athens also provides authorization using OR2 standard based access tokens. So in a way, like just to give a little bit of context, it is similar to SPIR plus OPPA combination for like SPIR for the X519 based authentication as well as OPPA for doing the authorization based on policies. Thank you for the explanation. Is there anything else besides what we've got here that you can use from the CNCF staff or the TOC for the next year? No, I think as we have mentioned in the PR, we are going to go for the security review and hoping to get more eyes on it in terms of what project is and where we can improve and yes, I mean I understand it being a sandbox project doesn't have direct marketing support but we are going to see what we can do to get adoption going. Okay. That wraps up our kind of overall reviews today. Dimms, I'm going to pass to you a bit for like procedurally. Right. So we could do it in a couple of ways. One way is to check if any of us have any concerns about the projects that we've talked about right now. And if there are, so we can do like what on bulk saying, okay, all the projects that were reviewed today are good with a plus one, zero minus one, or if you want to split it into individual ones we can do that too. Which one would the TOC members prefer? Any suggestions there? I mean I think it's, we've done the bulk vote in the past. I mean I think if the bulk vote, if there's not a plus one on the bulk vote then we could always do them individually but if there's a plus one on the bulk vote then we can just go through and Okay. So let's call for a vote for a bulk approval on all the projects that we have reviewed today. Let's open and passes. All right. Thank you. That was painless. That was wonderful. We'll go through our projects applying to move levels now. Harry, come on in for Chuba or CubeFS. Yeah, so all the needed review and the due diligence work has to be finished. So the, the ChubaFS which is known as CubeFS today. So this project is generally ready to move to incubation. So we are still waiting for some minor feedbacks from TOC side. Everything's ready. I think this project we can actually ask for public comment for their due diligence talk. Yeah. All right, I will watch for a call for public comment. So, right. I'm allowed custodian. Yeah, so there was a lot of progress here in the due diligence and we will do a sync on where we are and then an update in one of the next public meetings. But it's moving pretty well right now. Should I should I do the others. Yes, on to Volcano. We've already talked about cert manager. So yay. Yeah. Elena is not with us today, but this is her last meeting as a TOC member. Much thanks to Elena and all the work that she's done here. Captain Pasta Cornelia. Yep. We, I have feedback back as I reported a few weeks ago, I had given them first round of feedback, and they have responded with that and I need to review. Great. Thank you for the progress there. Dave artifact hub. Thank you so much for having me. Oh yeah, always. We have made almost no progress here. I think we talked a little bit in December and January and our plan was to have some conversations with end users and adopters of artifact hub as we're still kind of debating the, like, how well it fits the model of projects conversation that we had before. And I think that conversation was happening with Matt before Matt was on the TOC. So Matt and I just need to get together and figure this out and get to some of the next steps. All right, hearing no objections to that. Pass to key cloak. A similar situation is Dave I think there were some reservations about key cloak initially in terms of diversity of contributors and end users and so I'll need to go through the same due diligence to make sure the things that were raised before on the TOC with previous sponsors are satisfied since I'm taking it over second hand so I am in process of doing that more provide an update as they come in. All right, thank you. We've heard from you a little bit. Oh, actually, you've got some helpful things from Derek. Yay. So, for Q&O, I haven't started, we haven't started yet. So, I'm going to talk to the project folks this week, hopefully, and get us going on a DD doc. Yeah, I'll repeat the same. We had the kitchen last week and yeah, we're moving forward as well. Okay, quickly for the applying for graduation, Argo, I know it's still out there, GRPC also still out there and Spiffy Spire, I know that you all have been working on being able to gather things together. Yeah, thank you. And Kormak, passing to you. Yeah, so Spiffy Spire, we had a kickoff meeting with Emily and we were to work on our plan, GRPC, I need to take off hold again because it was on hold because it wasn't going to happen before the elections, but I will get back to working on that. Okay. That covers us for our normal agenda in here. I have a question for the group. Did this kind of public review of like annual sandbox projects work? I think it forced us to prepare well, I guess, for sure. And I like the fact that we were able to get the project maintainers and have conversation with them here. Okay. Seeing big thumbs up all around. One request that I had in the middle of the meeting and then kind of switch towards was like, talk a little bit about what the project actually does, because even though all of us actually know what it is, that is not immediately apparent towards the community overall so I think in the future we will set up a way to be able to make sure that the project knows that this is happening more than just like a week in advance, and also directly inviting them again as well. Okay, project participation, good things. Other questions, pieces that we wanted to be able to go over. Right, seeing no one coming off mute and everybody being very happy and chat. Yeah, dams. Yeah, the only thing that I would say is like, you know, there's a lot of services available through the service test so, you know, go look at the things that are already provided and, you know, open up tickets and more than one person from each project knows or has access to the service just to get then the things that are available. You, yeah, let's start by using all the things that we know we can and then, you know, we can do more I guess. That's completely fair. We're always happy to help.  It's good to see all of you. Thank you. All right, be well everyone thank you so much. Thank you. Thanks this is great. Oh good okay. You did like it. All right, bye all


So I'm here to talk about the containerized agent deployment which falls into the ease of use category as far as the enhancements to the product. Really it's a quick and easy way to install the true site capacity agent in a containerized environment. So obviously the key there is the environment has to be containerized. You have to have a container host in order to install the agent in a container. The goal is to simplify and speed the deployment of the true site capacity agent. Just installing it as a container really just takes a matter of minutes. It's delivered as a container image. One of the advantages is it reduces the risk of failed agent deployments. I have a customer right now who is rolling out thousands of agents and especially on windows. They've found that their windows servers are not all configured uniformly, especially differences between the dev environment and production. And so they're trying to deploy the agents and they're getting failures because of differences in system configuration. So that's one of the beauties of containers is the configuration basically is all isolated and wrapped around the agent. So a single Docker command creates a container and starts the agent. That really is very quick and it works equally well in the cloud and in an on-premises data center. So the advantages really are that in the current situation you have to install a host in a traditional way with an installer. And as we've just learned, the GUI installer for the BPA agent has been deprecated, which in most cases shouldn't be a problem because nobody's using X windows anymore. So I almost never run into a customer whose servers are configured to do X11 anymore. But still you have to install the agent and whenever you're installing something, you can run into all kinds of issues with permissions and ownerships and directories and so on. So when you're installing on a host, you have to change the environment to some degree, put in its scripts and change permissions. And then again, if you have a doing a large scale deployment, you can have failure rates if the customer's server configurations are not absolutely uniform. And it's not very cloud friendly. So with the agent available as a container, we solve a lot of the problems. It basically brings its own environment with it and isolates it from the host and from other things running on other containers running on that host. Just one Docker command creates the container and starts the agent, collects the data from the host operating system kernel. So you're running the agent in a way that it still has visibility into the process space on the container host. Reduces the risk of fail deployments and it's equally comfortable in the cloud and in the data center. So at this point, I'm going to go into a demonstration and I will share my desktop. Before I launch into the demonstration, I just wanted to quickly run through the steps involved. I'm not going to do all of them because I've got my container already loaded and running, so I'm not going to run through all these steps. But basically, these are the four steps involved. You've got to, first of all, get the container image. You load the zip image into a local repository using the Docker command. You confirm that the image is there and then this is the key command here, is you use the Docker run command to run the container. So really, this is what the container looks like when it's running. So it's got a container ID and there are certain commands that you're going to need to, if you need to run certain commands. For instance, you want to start a bash shell on the container. You can do that. You need to know the container ID. You can also give the container a name. My container has been running for about nine days. And it has been collecting data through that whole time. So once you've started the container, then you've really got just a standard BPA agent. So the BPA agent is available on my desktop. So if we look at, let's start with, first of all, you've got to add it to your gateway server, which is, right? So you need to add it to the agent list in order to get it added to a manager run so that the data is actually, the data collection is started and we'll start showing up in the workspace. What I did initially was just to get something flowing, I added my Docker agent to the un-catalog system so that I could do an investigate study. But once it is added to a manager run, then you'll see it in the list nodes. And this is my Docker container here. And so the first thing I did was created an investigate study, which is what you're looking at here. So I'm just collecting a number of metrics, CPU utilization, memory, and also process level data, which I can drill down on. This being one of the main advantages of the capacity agent is its visibility into process level data at a very granular level. So you can see I've got all of my process data here in my investigate study and I can sort it. You'll see that the main things, there's not a lot going on on that host. So the main things that are consuming CPU really are the BGS collect process itself, which is our capacity agent data collector, and the Docker daemon. So this is the investigate study and then I also am now, but it's now visible, my Docker agent is now visible in the workspace. So I created a Docker domain to contain my Docker agent. I've got one thing in it, which is my Docker agent. And I've got just one quick graph that I created, which is a performance analysis. And I just selected some key processes from the Docker host to graph. So it's basically CPU utilization for the busiest processes on the box, which are our own processes. Again, these are mostly anything with BGS in front of it is us. And then the Docker daemon and the container daemons related to Docker itself.


Hello everyone, so welcome to the last talk of the morning session. I want to present you Alan Jude We'll be talking about the future of open ZFS on free BSD. Please Alan. Thank you So as me, I said my name is Alan Jude I'm a free BSD developer and on the core team and I'm also an open ZFS developer And I work for Clara, which is a free BSD professional services and consulting company so if you Use free BSD and need help with it then reach out to us So a brief overview of what we'll talk about today We're going to talk about how open ZFS got started Some of the roadblocks that hit along the way and how we overcame those and how that has changed In the present and how it's going to change even more in the future Including some of the challenges that open ZFS is facing today and how we will overcome those and then as part of that On free BSD will be changing the upstream we use to get ZFS from So that we can more closely track the active development and get all of the latest features And then we will also talk about what's going to be coming up in ZFS over the next couple of years So to start at the beginning as they say ZFS was originally developed at Sun Microsystems as most people know Work started back in 2001 meaning that ZFS is almost 20 years old at this point and the First version that leaked out for everybody to have under the open source CDDL license came out in 2005 with the release of that version of Open Solaris But sadly in 2010 Oracle ruined everything They bought Sun and ended up closing off development of Solaris and Taking all of the future changes they made to ZFS internal only And so out of that They forked the last version of open Solaris that was under the CDDL and made a Lumos And that basically became our upstream for ZFS because all the files were still in the same place and Everything was good Yeah, so Illumos became the upstream for free BSD and previous day was able to follow that very quickly In a previous presentation I did some analysis on it and found that when a new feature went into Illumos version of ZFS it On average was in free BSD within a week. I think the slowest one In general was about 60 days that it took for a feature to get forwarded to free BSD because it required some amount of extra work You know supported in the OS and wasn't unnecessarily because of something in in ZFS But at this over the time ZFS was ported to a number of different platforms Including when it was introduced to free BSD in 2007 And then there were a number of different efforts to try to make something for Linux including one using fuse That didn't really go anywhere, but at Lawrence Livermore National Labs in the States They had what became the ZFS on Linux project which started in 2008 But once we had all these and especially when they started to diverge of it features would get added to free BSD and not put back into Illumos or In the ZFS on Linux project. They added some extra command line flags That didn't exist anywhere else and it was starting to look at like, you know ZFS wouldn't be the same everywhere and that would be bad So the open ZFS project was started to try to coordinate development across platforms and keep You know, so the ZFS knowledge you built up on free BSD would translate to any of the other OSes and ZFS would be ZFS everywhere At least open ZFS would be open ZFS everywhere Again oracle bad So open ZFS the original plan for open ZFS was actually this one common repo Basically, it would be a GitHub repo that contained only ZFS and none of the OS specific code And then each of the operating systems like Illumos free BSD and Linux and then later OS 10 etc Would pull down that common code and then add in their OS specific goop to make it work However that would take someone would have to do a lot of effort to keep this one true clean copy of ZFS with None of the OS goop in it And it turns out there were no volunteers to do all this extra work for nothing You know, it wasn't going to help the effort of any one operating system And it wasn't going to help any company. And so there was basically no way to make that sustainable So instead the the repo of record for open ZFS became a fork of the Illumos code and because the Illumos request to integrate process was Very complicated for an outsider and Very slow at the time If you made a pull request against the open ZFS repo Matt Aaron's who's one of the So in in Illumos, they have these merge advocates and there's only like 10 of them And there's the people that can commit and you Give your code to them and they commit it kind of thing So Matt and his team would take care of the Illumos process for you So if you tried to upstream something to ZFS it would get reviewed and then they would take care of getting integrated for you because that process was Too hostile for an outsider But as I mentioned previous detract this repo very closely commit by commit We could pull in each commit that happened to be affecting ZFS And bring it into free BSD and we were able to keep up very nicely But then the number of platforms started to explode You know you have Illumos was basically the start of it all and it's many distributions and then we had free BSD and derivatives like Free NAS and PF sense and so on that we're using ZFS and then net BSD started their Version of open ZFS, but they started by porting the one from free BSD rather than the one from Illumos Because it would more closely match their VFS and so on But you get these kind of follow-on effects where especially if you're Very far downstream it can take a while for a commit that happens up here to trickle down to your upstream to then trickle down into your version of the OS Which was especially funny when the port to OS 10 started by or started from the ZFS on Linux repo rather than the Lumos so it ended up further away and then Jorgen got bored one day imported it to Windows But the Windows 4 has come quite a long way in the last couple years and is is basically usable in a development sense at this point But you can't actually import a ZFS pool on Windows and do send receive and read and write files and it does work It's just there's lots of debug messages and it's not fast but it's coming along and then OS V which is a kind of a Virtualization specific OS has also integrated ZFS and then lots of other Linux to shows like Ubuntu's next long-term support release is going to support ZFS on route and Proxmox, which is a hypervisor appliance uses ZFS on route and ZFS to back all the VMs But we even though the goal of the open ZFS project was to prevent divergence There's still been quite a bit of divergence as we get new features generally start in one OS and maybe get sent to the others But that generally relies on the other OS coming and getting them and especially at Before now that process usually involved somebody from Linux should upstream their changes into a Lumos and then once they were there They'd be pulled into free BSD But again now you're further away from where the change is happening your many steps away And that's slower So one of the things open ZFS did early on was replace the concept of the pool version numbers if you remember using ZFS and free BSD back in like seven and eight days you started with you know There was like ZFS v12 and then v17 and 20 and then eventually got to 28 And that's when Oracle ruined everything But basically from that point we decided because development is happening across many different platforms Features are going to show up in different orders on different platforms So monotonically increasing version number is not very helpful for that because you know if v30 is going to mean one thing on free BSD and another thing on Linux that's not going to work So instead we added feature flags So basically your pool has a list of features that are either on or off And then when you go to import that pool on a different platform or a different version of free BSD You can only read that pool if you have all of the features that are enabled Or if those features have a specialized says this feature is read only compatible It means that you can read the data, but you can't change data because it requires you to have some feature you don't have But So that solved the problem of features, but So it'd be obvious if your pooled had a feature or didn't have a feature that some other OS did But bug fixes sometimes, you know as part of writing this new feature They found and fixed the bug somewhere else instead of s and because it was buried in that feature or whatever Free BSD would know that there was a bug fix and it wouldn't get copied into a lumos and then back down into free BSD And so we wouldn't know that there was this bug and that it had been fixed elsewhere And so the virgins kept diverging and again, you know Free BSD developers are doing a bunch of work and stuff They don't necessarily go talk to a bunch of Linux developers about it And so each camp didn't necessarily know what the other was doing or would only hear about it at the end when it was actually available not in progress and so that caused quite a bit of Divergence in the ZFS code base So to help with that back in 2013 Matt Aaron started up the open ZFS Developer Summit, which was a once yearly summit to bring together developers from all the platforms and actually talk about what they were working on so everybody have a better idea of what was going on And also made it a good place to discuss future direction and features and so on So in that that first one they had a platform panel with representatives from each of the different OSes that was active in ZFS at the time and then having vendor lightning talks so that companies could also present what cool things They were working on and so on so when it started back in 2013 there were 30 developers that attended Now the conference is actually limited to 100 slots because of the venue we use and so we try to The first so many tickets are available to anybody and then after that it kind of goes into a waitlist thing where we Sadly have to pick and choose who's can come because we only have so much room But we also added a second date of the conference, which is a hackathon where you can get in a room with a bunch of other developers and work on prototypes of new features and being able to have The experts on every different subsystem of ZFS in the room makes it much quicker to be able to ask questions like you know Where do I look to find the code that does this in the arc or whatever? And also facilitates those kind of design discussions being able to get a bunch of ZFS developers around a whiteboard and draw out how a feature will work and Have all their experience about you know, there's gonna be a gotcha if we try to do it this way We might want to do it this way is super helpful So at the summit last year especially as The ZFS on Linux project was becoming more and more the place where more work was happening as Some alumos based companies had switched to Linux or just in general Linux have been attracting more developers We decided to In order to keep that reigned in That we would need to have Meetings more than once a year. So we started the ZFS leadership meeting, which is a monthly call The time changes every that we do two Calls the first to any two months are done where it's convenient for North America And then we shift the one on the every third meeting to be more convenient for Europe versus Asia So that we can cover so everybody gets a chance to participate Because it's really helpful to have the developer that's working on OS 10 and Windows support and the call But he lives in Japan, which is you know, 12 hours offset from the east coast of North America But it means any time that's convenient for him is inconvenient for all the Russian developers And so we shuffled back and forth But the goal is to keep the platform better in sync and to keep everybody better informed of what's going on especially as we're designing features Laying out the feature a specific way makes perfect sense on your platform But on some other platform a limitation or something might mean it would have been better to it Slightly differently that wouldn't have made any difference to say the linux implementation will make the free BSD one work better or Be more possible or whatever The nice thing about this meeting is it's open to anyone. It's a giant zoom call. There's usually like 50-ish people on Not everybody talks so that helps But they're also live-streamed and recorded and available on YouTube So you can go back and watch all of the meetings to get caught up if you want or it's just a good way to keep informed on what's happening for example, the last one was Tuesday of this week or last week and It was announced that one of the companies has is going to open source a better version of Ddupe That does it based on the timing to Ddupe to block not just the hash so that the performance isn't Nearly as bad as the current Ddupe So the outcome of that is that these leadership meetings have been very successful We've got better direction and started working on some of the interesting problems we've come into like that ZFS has never had any defecation policy for removing a feature and Needing to work out those kind of things But also working out the cross-platform compatibility stuff better And the other one is working out how to name some of the tunables and stuff You know what the original developer thinks it should be called and what people more familiar with the administrative side think it should be called For example, I'm sure many people that use ZFS are familiar with the a-shift variable That one was never that's an internal implementation detail if it was exposed to the user it definitely should have been called like minimum sector size or something Because and it should probably be in bytes not in powers of two And so trying to prevent More of that type of thing or if you remember back in older versions of ZFS especially on free BSD where you'd have like Prefetch disabled Was the flag and so one was actually disabled and zero was enabled and it's very confusing when you have a double negative like that And so on so trying to avoid more of that So some of the ones that are currently being worked on is that for example NFS you have the share NFS property and you can stick a bunch of NFS settings in that But it turns out the NFS settings on a Lumos Linux and free BSD don't match up at all Completely different settings and formats And so this means that if you export the full on free BSD and import it on a Lumos your NFS shares aren't going to work correctly Or it might even actually confuse or break the NFS demon on the OS as it's going to be like Oh, you have an invalid config now. I'm not going to share anything You definitely don't want that So trying to decide whether ZFS should have its own common least common denominator implementation or if there should be a separate property for each OS So you actually set share NFS colon free BSD and put the free BSD settings And if you're going to use it on another West that'll be ignored And you can set the Linux specific ones if you want But you know that leads to oh, I updated the free BSD ones. I forgot to update Linux ones and now I got problem So that discussion is still ongoing if you have ideas or Gotchas about that you can participate on the opens out of S developer mailing list or join the call next month Other problems including extended attributes that turns out the way X adders are implemented in each OS We each have our own namespace You know free BSD 6th word free BSD at the beginning of the attribute or user if it's a user attribute and Linux does its own thing That's different and Solaris uses some random jumble of letters that I don't understand But again, you want a pool created on free BSD that say using Samba And storing extended attributes for Windows to just work when it goes on Linux Not for all those extended attributes to disappear when you go to Windows Especially in this case where free BSD and Linux are both using the same Samba software to share SMB of course a Lumos has its own different SMB implementation and so you know, we don't want to make the X adders feature of ZFS specific to Samba because you know, we're also getting Mac and Windows support here So how do we work that out? And then we have the additional consideration of you know on free BSD and a Lumos We can actually change the VFS code to make it You know always use Z pool dot as a prefix for X adders or something if it's ZFS But on ZFS on Linux and on OS 10 and Windows The people working on ZFS have no control over the OS You know because ZFS on Linux can't be upstreamed the upstream developers like to be hostile to ZFS and try to do things to break it even and So, you know, we're not going to convince them to make a VFS change specifically for ZFS and so, you know Some of our typically the immediate solutions that the previous either Lumos people thought of turns out won't work on Linux because they don't get to control their VFS layer Or the defecation policy. It's you know, ZFS has been around for 18 years now And this is the first time we've ever thought of removing a feature but it turns out so there's a A feature separate from Ddupe called de-duplicated send. So this is when you're doing is that if I send It doesn't matter whether you're using de-duplication or not because the send protocol Surrealizes everything and is unrelated to what's on your disk But it has a de-duplication feature where it will start as it's doing the send It will keep track of the blocks that is sent and if it sees a duplicate block It will just reference the previous version of it But turns out this doesn't work very well and it's intense very well. And so they'd like to remove it But you know, we've never done that before and how do we actually do this? How long do we need to give people? And it turns out we're also going to need to build a utility to take a stream that was made previously that used de-dupe and Unde-dupe, rehydrate it as we say so that you'll still be able to receive it because one of the guarantees We make with ZFS send is use ZFS send and store it You'll still be able to restore that like ten years later on a newer version of ZFS ZFS send is backwards compatible down to old versions of ZFS and all future versions of ZFS So we don't want to break that So we have to figure out how to do that and how much warning we need to give people And especially you have problems like the current long-term support version of Ubuntu Includes ZFS on Linux versions 0.6.4 or something like that We're currently on 0.8 and that one's two or three years old at least But it's still going to be supportive for a couple more years So if we don't get a fix for this well, even if we defecate this now and Remove it the next long-term support release of Ubuntu that comes out next April or whatever It's going to be using the 0.8 branch and it's still going to have this feature So there's still going to be people with this feature six years from now So we really have to think about the defecation policy because we're going to have such a long lead time before Things actually get defecated so we kind of want to defecate them as soon as possible Because we're already going to have to put up with it for six years or more And another one that we want to get rid of Maybe we can't now is DDoop ditto The idea was that if you write if you have when you're DDooping if you actually have a block that you've have more than 100 instances of You let's write a second copy of it to the disk Instead of DDooping it all down to one copy because you have a hundred different copies of this If that one goes bad, you'll feel really really not good But it turns out that while that works during a scrub or a re-silver the second copy never gets fixed Whoops So rather than fixing that it was like oh we could just remove it that we find like nobody uses DDoop But then last week somebody's like well We have this new version of DDoop that works much better and we're going to open source it for everybody And so now maybe we can't get rid of DDoop ditto and somebody has to fix it But either way we need to figure out what to do that Then we have the problem again set of us on Linux would like to remove support for CentOS 6 and Red Hat Enterprise Linux 6 Since but those have end-of-lifetime, you know said to us and Red Hat provide 10 years with a version of the LS and Well, CentOS 6 will still be supported in the 0.8 branch of open ZFS on Linux We want to remove it from 0.9 But again, how much warning do we need to give people that you know if you're using CentOS 6 you can't have new features I think they mostly understand that but we have to Figure out how to message that like how do we get this message out to enough people that we're not going to surprise people And then we also have the same problem currently you can use the a newer version of ZFS that we'll talk about in a minute on free BSD by installing it as a port But if we continue with offering that so that you'll be able to have like a development branch of ZFS as a Port to update the version that instead of the version that's in the base system How are we going to manage the support lifecycle for that because at some point? You know you're gonna be running the oldest supported version of free BSD and trying to run the newest version of ZFS and Do we allow that and how long do we have to put up with people that won't upgrade? and then other problem is Some features in ZFS are getting a bit old for example the LZ4 compressor is really good and really fast and we'd like it But we bundled the version of it that back then didn't even have a version number Into ZFS and we've just continued to use that same version. There's a newer version. That's about 30% faster And has a number of optimizations for newer CPUs, but if we import it it might break some things in particular Currently we expect that if you take the same data and compress it again, you'll get the same hash But if it turns out we compress it better nowadays It won't have the same hash and this will break some things So trying to figure out how to do that. It mostly came up when I was looking at importing Zed standard Which is a new Compressor and is under active development has new versions very frequently And you know just over the course of my development of it. They've had two new major versions. I will middle versions or whatever but You know, we don't want to be stuck on the old version when all the when the new version has better Compression and more speed and more of the goodness that we're trying to get in the first place So how to work out how to deal with that and so the other big feature coming out of the open ZFS Leadership meeting is trying to come up with Compatibility stuff so in particular when you create a new pool on any OS it defaults to having all the newest features turned on But that list of features might not be compatible with the other OS you're trying to use or even you know Even in the cases use running in previous d 12.1 when it comes out in November And you create a pool and then try to import it on your 11.3 machine and it won't work because it has one newer feature Maybe the default shouldn't be that so we're looking at creating a Special flag that would be open ZFS dash the year So it would be whatever features were supported by the lowest common denominator of ZFS platforms at January of that year So you'd be able to easily say just give me something that will work with every ZFS in 2019 or in 2020 or whatever or you know, give me a version that will work with previous d 12 But how do we keep that list from getting too long? You know, we have to decide what we're going to support and maybe that's previous d 12 rather than 12.1 versus 12.2 But you know and how long before we can prune off that list? We don't want to break people's scripts and you know need to figure out how to do that And if you have ideas, please speak up on the open ZFS developer mailing list So the big thing that this talk was about is the change of upstream it turns out that Like 70 plus percent of the new development in ZFS happens in the ZFS on Linux repo And in general is taking a very long time or is not being ported to alumos and since alumos is previously upstream It's either taking a long time or we're not getting the new features So we'd like to change our upstream to ZFS on Linux so that we would get The features faster But as we tried to do that it turns out that because ZFS on Linux was developed over a long period of time As they added features they worked on them, but they imported stuff from alumos in between So when I tried to pull over one of the features that's relatively small called the multi-mount protection designed for JBODs You know They had the first couple commits to it and then they merged this feature from alumos that rewrote how Zipple import works Which is where most of the MMP code goes and then they had more commits to it We'll try to port that to free BSD when all the alumos commits are already merged But in a different order made it really really difficult So it was decided the easier way would be just report all of ZFS on Linux to free BSD Because the way Linux did it was basically take the Solaris code and then on the side They wrote the Solaris porting layer, which basically converted Solaris internals into Linux internals We already had something like that called open Solaris that KO on free BSD And so it was mostly a matter of just lining that up and cleaning up a little bit But it turns out that we took it one step further and actually separated out the OS specific bits So now in the ZFS on free BSD tree There's a module called OS with free BSD and Linux and all the OS specific code lives in one of those two sub directories And all the ZFS generic code is in the ZFS module and luckily the ZFS on Linux people have agreed to let us upstream that so That will mean that going forward there will be one repo that will gain both the Linux and free BSD code And any OS specific bits will be in a certain sub directory specific to that OS And the advantage of this means that we will also connect to one common CI system So that anytime a Linux developer makes a change to the ZFS on Linux repo It also gets tested on free BSD and if it breaks then it can't be merged And then we're actually going to get even farther and the ZFS on OS 10 people are going to join that effort and add their OS as well And we will actually end up with that common open ZFS repo like we talked about And to help try to fight some of the FUD around you know the concept of free BSD to being depended on Linux for Open ZFS because it's not right that the ZFS on Linux people are ZFS people that happen to be working on Linux They're not Linux developers, you know the Linux developers don't like them because they're using the CDDL license, right? So they've agreed that once we finish the upstreaming process of adding free BSD support to their repo They'll actually change the name of their organization and GitHub from ZFS on Linux to just open ZFS And so we'll have the one true open ZFS repo with OS support for three or more OS is built into it And everybody can just work in that repo and then do releases based on it So specifically that means that there will be no GPL code leaking into free BSD and there will be no Linux KPI shims or anything like that So all the Linux code will sit in the side and we won't import it And then there'll be a OS free BSD where we put all the free BSD specific code Just like we would have if we were importing it from Illumos In fact, it'll actually be slightly cleaner because we won't have all these if deaf Linux if deaf Illumos else for free BSD We'll just have a free BSD sub directory with all the free BSD specific code in it And so we end up with the kind of like we do the machine dependent machine independent code in the kernel We'll have OS dependent and OS independent code in open ZFS and like I said, we'll leverage the CI work that the ZFS and Linux people have done a very good job with and Any change we'll have to work on both Linux and free BSD before it gets merged Currently, there were a couple of things that are specific to free BSD or that'll be changing as part of this First free BSD has had trim in ZFS for a long time and we were the only platform that had it for a long time But make sense I had built one for Illumos and that got worked on a lot imported to Linux and it turns out it's actually slightly better has better queuing and batching and it also supports both online and on-demand trim So you can do normal trim like we are now where you trim everything as you delete it Or you can say don't do any trims right now, but every once in a while I want to trim all my free space and you can do that So we'll be switching to their trim code because it's better Jails are based on LUMOS zone or jail support and ZFS is based on zones and that'll be retained as free BSD specific code because there's no analog on Linux and Our previous or NFS v4 ACLs will be retained as OS dependent code because Linux doesn't have that So before I get into the list of features. Does anybody have any questions? So currently the features that are relatively new to ZFS that are available on all platforms is a new sequential scrub and resilver. You'll probably notice that I think in previously 12 That instead of scrubbing everything based on the order in the file system. It will actually Scan and find blocks to resilver or scrub and put them in this range tree And which I think is limited to like 600 megabytes of RAM as that gets full It takes the largest contiguous block and does that scrub or resilver and then goes back to scanning so this means most of your scrub ends up being sequential reads instead of random and Makes your scrub or resilver somewhere between two and 16 times faster than the old code and You can also pause and resume scrubs now So that you can say don't do any scrubbing during business hours, you know the scrub might take three days But let's you know pause it during business hours and resume it outside of business hours Device removal is finally available in free BSD.  So if you create a whole pool snapshot of which you can only have one But basically once you have a Z pool checkpoint Nothing actually gets deleted when you delete stuff. So even if you destroy a data set It gets marked as free, but we don't actually delete the data or overwrite the data So no space ever gets freed so eventually you fill up your pool But it means that if you're doing something like an upgrade and you're going to delete a database and make a new copy or whatever Especially on an appliance. It means that you can always undo it all So you create the checkpoint rename stuff delete stuff add discs whatever you're gonna do especially the operations in ZFS That normally are really risky You create the checkpoint force do it if you're happy with it destroy the checkpoint get your free space back But if it goes sideways, you just export import from that checkpoint and you have You know things are unrenamed and undeleted and everything's back the way it was Z pool initialize goes through and writes to every sector So if you're using a thin provision storage, especially off like Amazon EBS Turns out the first time you write to a block is a lot slower than later because Amazon's in the background having to go find space and allocate that block So Z pool initialize allows you to Write all that space in the beginning so that your disk will be fast Even if you know you have a terabyte of storage from Amazon you can claim it all now so it'll be fast as you're using it The new space mapping coding supports makes it more efficient to have very large drives and Take less space for the space map and make them load faster Channel programs if you want to know more about that Matt gave a whole presentation about it at BSD Can but it basically allows you to have little Lewis scripts that run inside the ZFS transaction lock So that you can do many administrative operations as one atomic unit so if you need to you know roll back 10 data sets or Create manage snapshots and renames and a bunch of stuff It allows you to do them all as one atomic operation by writing a short Lewis script and Then the largest you know it support is a Linux specific feature to support the very large directories because Linux is bad at that Some of the features we'll get when we import the newer version of ZFS Includes encryption so native encryption per data set so each data set can have its own separate encryption key And you can unmount a data set when you're not needing it and unload the key So the data is actually at rest and protected and it also allows Scrub and resilver can still happen without the encryption keys loaded Because the checksum is stored half as the plain text and half as the encrypted text The multi-import protection I mentioned is so that if you have two heads connected to a common disk Or common JBod that you don't import the fool on both at the same time And then metadata allocation class or special allocation classes allows you to put all your metadata on a dedicated device Instead of mixing it with your data on the pool Parallel ZFS mount allows you just if you have a thousand data sets mount more than one at a time Trim the new way already mentioned Z pool sync is just a command to make sure that everything has been flushed Before you you know reset a VM or something and being able to restart a resilver if you need it, okay? Any other questions Okay, thank you very much. I've been looking forward to the channel commands. Yes Can I finally do my multiple snapshots? No, the channel programs are transactions, which are per pool. It's purple. Yeah, then fix demand page There is a new update to the rate that expansion in the ZFS on Linux repo which you can Easily do a git rebase to pull it into the ZFS on free BSE It's still very beta, but it's coming along. There's been progress Finally after a long time of no progress Unifying the ZFS implementation in one repository and maybe just doing these specific bits and folders and stuff but It kind of reminds me to of the apache foundation or something like that because then it seems that the project would probably Slow them a quite a bit Because the development would then have to take care of things as a developer if I want to change something I would have to make sure all platforms will work So it might discourage me from changes or I cannot do such a big changes It mostly depends on the change most changes are only specific to ZFS and won't require any OS specific bits When they do that's why we have the ZFS leadership call if a platform were to fall behind And we're becoming a roadblock they probably get disconnected from the CI and that would be their problem So we have the monthly leadership call specifically to prevent this so that if there is you know If the Linux developers working on something and needs a previous developers help to get the previous decide port done That's why we have a monthly meeting No, basically this is mostly the result of the project speeding up more than we could handle the old way So we're trying to adapt to be move faster Although at the same time we are trying to make sure that we don't break anything because as Kirk says, you know If you curtail somebody's file system once they will never trust you again You mentioned the initialize feature of Unthink provisioning the underlying block storage. Yep. What does Amazon think about it? That's their problem. Well, I mean what I'm saying is that me for the whole terabyte the whole time anyway So yeah, what I'm saying is that? What I see is a hazard, you know, they may start back brushing on that or like banning that kind of stuff Well, what however they can do this? I mean, it's from the political standpoint is a little bit dangerous like when we had this talk I don't know if you were on that Regarding the DOH and the DNS over HTTP. Yeah, so it seems like a good idea at the beginning But when you go through then it seems like a lot of people it's definitely an optional feature and most people won't need to use it but For Delfix's database virtualization appliance It was very important that they don't get random, you know, 100 millisecond write latencies on Blocks just because it wasn't the block they had written before Thank you. Yep. Also about the Z pool initialize If I'm reusing some old disks to create a new pool does it zero them out? You can although there's also the trim on a net feature So when you first create the pool you can trim the whole drive Before you start and that might that would be more efficient than that kids. Thanks going once Twice, okay. Thank you


The narcissist has a dirty little secret, something that they hide from everyone, something that they hope no one will notice. The narcissist pretends to be confident. They act like they've got everything figured out. They act like they believe in their abilities or qualities.  The truth is the narcissist doesn't even exist. It's a fabrication, they're just an invention or a concoction of various different people. You've only got to look at the narcissist after they've left you and compare it to who they were before they met you to realise this. They are completely different people to how they used to be when they met you. They stole your identity. They stole your personality, which is why when you see them after they've left you, they then dress differently and like completely different music. They have completely different interests. They've changed everything about themselves overnight. In some cases they may become more like you, or they may become more like a celebrity that you like, or someone else that you admire. It's like you have unknowingly concocted this character that looks like it came out of a lab and then it escapes and starts using the character that you have created to attract other people. But by using something that you have created, it seems that all they're going to attract is other people like you, people who like the same things that you do, people who are attracted to the same things that you like. It's really insane, but this is exactly what these narcissists are doing.  Just remember how they were when you first met them. Remember their character and personality. Maybe they were shy or quiet. Maybe they liked classical music. But suddenly, after meeting you, now they're acting really confident and loud. Now they're into hip hop music and they're meeting other people who are into that. When really, it's not something they're really interested in. They just knew that you liked it and they thought that you looked cool, or they thought it made you attract a lot of attention. So now they're trying it on for size. They want to see if it looks good on them. They want to see if they can replicate the amount of attention that you are getting. Because that's all these narcissists really care about. They only care about what exists on the surface, what people see, and they see it as though if who they are isn't getting a lot of attention, then they need to change. They need to be something else. They probably met you because you were popular.  They wanted people to look up to them. They wanted people to be attracted to them. But they didn't see themselves as something that was desirable or attractive. And before they met you, they probably weren't getting much attention. And that is why they stole your identity. That is why they stole your personality. It's not so much that they want to be you. It's more that they want what you're getting. They want the attention. They want the admiration. They want to feel like they're worth something, and they know they're not going to get it by being authentic. They know they're not cut out to be anything great, which is why they have to steal a part of you. They have to take your dress sense, your likes and interests, or they will develop an obsession with a person that you like or admire. They will try to become more like them because these narcissists have no identity of their own. They don't know who they are. They don't know where they came from. They're just existing. They are whatever they think you want them to be. Whatever they think will get them the most attention. But underneath that, there's nothing even there. It's just an empty void, a mannequin wearing a wiggle make-up, a beautiful facade, and as long as you're willing to entertain that it exists, they will stick around.  You cannot exist in reality while you are around these narcissists. They cannot exist in reality. Because they're fake, they're just a concoction of different people and you're never going to get to know them because there is nothing to know. Underneath the facade, there's nothing but a void. There's nothing with any real meaning or purpose. It doesn't even exist and if they had never met you, you wouldn't even be seeing what you're seeing now. But when they walk away, you feel like you're missing something.  They stole your identity. They stole your personality and you can feel it when someone does that to you.  You just want to hold on to them. You just want to pull them back because no one wants to lose a part of themselves. We all want to feel whole and complete but you have to see this a different way instead of seeing it as though they've taken a part of you that you can never get back. You have to recognize that you can rebuild. You have to recognize that because whatever they took from you was real and authentic, it's something that you can always create again. It's something that you can always regenerate because you have the system. You have the foundation and structure that was required to be who you are today. Which is something that they will never find. They will continue going from person to person, taking parts of them that they like. Things that they think will make them feel desirable or attractive to other people. But they will never feel whole or complete. And they will only be using what you created to attract another you or at least someone who they think is like you. Narcissists are completely delusional people. They are detached from reality. They see people very differently than we do. So in their minds, we are not one of a kind. We are replaceable. Because nothing really has any deep meaning or purpose to a narcissist. Nothing has any sentimental value. They just exist. They just float around the earth like a ghost of the victims that they have destroyed. Thank you for watching. I hope this video resonates with you. Please like, comment, share and subscribe. Click the bell icon to receive notifications for my future videos. Check out the new Narc Survival website at www.narcsurviver.uk where you can read my blog posts, bug coaching sessions and join our support forum. If you would like to donate, my PayPal link is in the video description. Thank you for watching and I'll talk to you soon.


I talked before about the sadness that I felt and especially my wife Stella felt upon looking at the narrow river estuary and the places where there used to be so much life and it's not there anymore. And our sadness was not because we made some kind of mental calculation that that location no longer sequesters as much carbon and that therefore our future is going to be a little bit more in peril because of the lost carbon contribution just as the sadness that you feel when you see your childhood woods bulldozed or when you hear of a species going extinct or when you look at the pits and quarries and the tailing ponds of a strip mine or of a mountaintop removal operation or the devastation caused by tar sands excavation or those birds covered in oil struggling up onto the shore from an oil spill that hurts and it's not because you make a calculation that oh boy this is going to add more carbon and according to the models in 30 years or in 50 years that's going to mean this this and this there's a more visceral impact of these things. We are sad and in pain from the damage because we love these beings and I think that that this is a much more potent invitation to environmental action, to action to protect and restore the places of this earth than appealing to a theoretical projection of what's going to happen in 10 or 20 or 30 or 100 years that's not as motivating for a lot of people and it requires them to buy into a politically charged politically loaded position on climate change. I ran into somebody a few weeks ago whose brother is like this conservative Trump supporting anti-immigrant whatever whatever you know he like doesn't believe in climate change actually I'm not sure if he's anti-immigrant I'm just kind of elaborating here embroidering it but what what this woman said is that he does not believe in climate change and he's a rancher and he's transitioned to using Alan's savory methods of holistic grazing and building huge amounts of topsoil and he's not motivated by climate change he's motivated by the health of his cattle and the health of the land and the soil is getting better and springs that have been dry for 30 years have been returning and and the songbirds are coming back and he's using less chemicals and he's actually doing better economically and like he doesn't need to believe in climate change to do probably more than everybody listening is put together to draw down carbon so this just illustrates that maybe attaching so much to the global warming narrative to the greenhouse gas narrative may not be necessary and may actually bypass what actually motivates people to do things that are in service to life and this is not to say that the theory of global warming is wrong I'm not saying that and if you are making a mental calculation of which side I am on can I trust this guy is he on the denier side or is he on the side of right and reason then you're missing my point and missing the larger point of the perils of war thinking and of the first question being which side are you on because maybe as I said before maybe there are hidden agreements among all sides among both sides of the polar spectrum that need to be challenged so one of those assumptions that I want to challenge is how do we motivate people to care and to take action and to answer that you might ask what motivated you to become an environmentalist if you are one maybe you don't identify that way but if you are one as I believe myself to be what what brought you to that what was it that you became afraid for our future or is that an acceptable reason on top of something that's much more squishy maybe the truth is that even if our future weren't at stake you would still want to save the amazon you would still want to stop the new road and stop the bulldozers and protect the fish protect the trees why because you you are a tree hugger you are a bird watcher you're a butterfly lover you like to touch turtles and look at turtles what if we embrace that what if we recognize that what motivates people is an experience of love and connection and an awareness of beauty and of loss feeling grief for what's being harmed right now and not to persuade them to trust the scientific authorities to believe what's going to happen in x number of years if this invisible substance called carbon dioxide and methane etc increases in its concentration that's a relatively hard cell compared to the tangible damage that's being done here and now people make sacrifices for what they love if you know that your actions are harming one of your loved ones then that's going to weigh heavy on you and you're going to want to change and many people do make courageous choices putting themselves at risk for the sake of their loved ones we are going to have to make courageous choices everybody in order to come into alignment with the healing of this planet we have to recognize that where does courage come from the word itself suggests the answer courage meaning heartfulness it comes from love we have to understand that that politicians that energy company executives that that lumber company executives I mean everybody is going to have to make brave choices it is brave for a corporate person to try to push their corporation to be a little bit more ecological like it's brave for the corporation to make that choice when it seems to conflict with the bottom line what's going to happen to our market share what are the shareholders going to say and so on so this is an important question that we have not been asking the question being where does courage come from and it comes from connection to what we love so yeah the the the a lot of the climate strategies are they do have some understanding of this that's why they use pictures of polar bears and stuff like that but then divert that energy into something that is global and abstract and long term and I think that on some of the people don't really believe it they might say that they believe it but most people don't believe it because their lived experience is not telling them that the climate is really getting worse life still goes on it has not affected them in the ways that they can recognize you can ideologically say that forest fires and droughts and hurricanes and floods are caused by climate change but that requires buy-in to to theories that I have to say are overhyped I can't say whether they are wrong but as I said before a lot of what is blamed on global warming is caused by more local and regional disruptions in soil water forests and so forth so do we want to peg our hopes to convincing everybody about climate change when there is another way a way that coincides coincides a lot more with with what actually motivates us tree hugger what motivates you what happened it was probably an experience you fell in love and that love and the potential for its awakening lives in all people we need to provide conditions for its awakening and then avenues for its expression and not let it get sidetracked by various ideological positions but there are there are things that people can do on a small scale on a local scale on a regional scale that then contribute to change on a global scale and I'm not saying that global level change is unimportant or unnecessary we do need global agreements to so that we can cooperate you can't have everybody withholding from polluting the earth in one in everywhere except for one place that's doing all the pollution and then exporting their things everywhere else that's not progress so we do need global agreements which we do not really have at this point the global agreements we have are mostly free trade agreements which actually run counter to ecological health that allow corporations to sue governments for harming their profits if they institute environmental regulations and these cases are adjudicated by unelected commissions with industry representatives appointed to them and stuff it's pretty dark so I'm I I just you know when I call for local action and care for the places where we are and and the nourishment and protection of the organs and tissues of Gaia that are this forest and this river like I do want to invite us to put our energy and attention to that but it's not to say that we then should completely ignore political engagement that's important too but the political engagement needs to come from a recognition of the importance of the local and allow us to act without external interference in the ways that serve each place