Snapping we're starting don't go to sleep Justin. It's time for a show Good, but there you go to sleep. Don't go to sleep right now. It's time for us to do the show That time story first. No bedtime stories showtime stories. Oh dear What's the title for today's show? I Don't have a title yet. Um adolescent dogs Adolescent dogs sure Dog angst, I don't know dog. No, it's a dog meet dog. What? Okay There we go, I'm gonna start this show we're ready we can do this Are you ready Justin's ready to take a nap? He's working hard doing all the things we are glad to see you here Wake up wake up. It's your wake up call. It's time for science in Three Two wait, hold on. I have one more thing Okay, all right three two This is Twist this week in science episode number 730 no, I am so off today. Sorry everybody. I don't know what I'm doing anymore. Uh, this don't I'm doing show about science This is Twist this week in science episode number 773 recorded on Wednesday May 13th 2020 K9 COVID angst Welcome to the show. I'm dr. Kiki tonight. We will fill your heads with tain angst And that's pretty much it But first This clamor disclaimer disclaimer the following hour programming has not been peer reviewed for that to be possible This show would need to have peers At best there might be a few pre-recorded post editing published slick shows that Can be considered in the wheelhouse of what we do But since there are no other live science news conversations being brought direct the public Within the week of that sciences Release we simply cannot be peer reviewed But we can bring you the findings of scientists We can bring you papers that have been peer reviewed sourced from institutions that are dedicated to the scientific process and while We may wonder about the subject matter with our own Wondering so loud of what the stories mean how they might impact the world and where they might lead next We encourage you to do the same To actively participate in the conversation about the world in which you live Because your review of the stories we talk about is the only reason that this week in science is coming up next Good science to you kiki and blare And a good science to you too. Justin blare and everyone out there. Welcome to another episode of this week in science We're back to talk about science To bring you the world as we see it from our Curious perspectives. That's right. We've got curious perspectives here on twis I have stories for you this week About what did I bring? I brought stories about covet because we'll have our covet update in a second chimeras and tools Justin, what did you bring? Chimeras, this is cool. Uh, what did I bring? I've got micro RNAs to the rescue Why your v the jj might be in better shape than you think it is uh hidden islands of human migration and Outrunning a tyranosaurus rex No, I'm you know, I'm glad I don't actually have to do that today But they eat things that are already dead, right? So it's okay They won't actually be chasing us. Hopefully not blare. What's in the animal corner? Uh, I have sea turtle mothers. I have the adolescent dogs and some teen angst from them And I also have an update on the toli monster Do monsters we love them We love to talk about the science about them as we jump into the show I want to remind you that if you are not yet subscribed to the twis podcast You can do that. It's pretty easy to find us on All podcast directories look for this week in science You can also find us on youtube on facebook Look for this week in science and our website is twis.org twis.org But let's get into this aforementioned Science All right the covet update what is going on this week? Well The world health organization COVID-19 situation report for may 12 reports 4.09 Million confirmed cases and 283,153 deaths worldwide The johns hopkins cse dashboard reports 1.38 million u.s. Cases have been diagnosed in 82 806 deaths As of 12 30 p.m. Today So the numbers are going up we have exceeded 80 000 deaths and We're looking for a vaccine This week exciting news maderna, which we have talked about previously on the show Which is a company that works on a messenger rna vaccines They have had positive results from their Their phase one trials in seattle This is a trial a clinical trial that is also funded by the niaid and The exciting thing is they have gotten fast track approval from the fda to move forward on their Clinical trials. They are pushing forward on phase two as we speak Even though they have not yet published their phase one clinical trial results They are hoping to get the phase two underway this summer Very shortly phase three very shortly after that And we'll see where it goes the way that clinical trials work phase one is a safety test All they do is inject people with the vaccine To see whether or not any bad things happen to them And apparently Their results are positive enough that everyone is very excited about them moving forward hence the fast tracking This does not mean that it treats or can protect people from COVID-19 Yeah, just means that the treatment itself doesn't seem to be killing anybody Exactly I mean, but not just not killing anybody it doesn't it if it we don't know yet They haven't published the results and they haven't gotten approval to actually publish the results yet, but apparently In the small governmental group of people that they're sharing the results with It was enough for the fda to accelerate their movement through the clinical trials It at least killed less people than kovat would have I Imagine it didn't kill anybody Yes, this is uh, this is a This is So someone Matt Elliott in the youtube or the facebook chat room. Sorry about that the facebook chat chat room is asking If we can explain what it means for the fast tracking process. So the fast track process allows this normal, uh the the the normal process of data analysis publication and extended Commentary period from peers. So there's an extended period of peer review to allow for Lots of experts to be able to weigh in on the results of phase one phase two Before each of the phases are advanced through The usual pace of advancement through clinical trials Allows for a lot of commentary and a lot of feedback And what the fast tracking does is it is pretty much based on the data that is reported by the uh, the group doing the clinical trial and uh, if the data as in this case is Predominantly positive significant. I don't know exactly what the p-value is that they're looking for I don't know. Uh, they have particular success markers that they set out Before the trial is even undertaken And if this those success markers are hit Then that allows them to move forward with the trials for the phase two and phase three trials What that means is they are preparing for those clinical trials simultaneously As opposed to sequentially So that at a certain point they'll be able to jump into these clinical trials In a more rapid pace. It allows them to be able to gather Volunteers to be able to make sure they have people and the equipment and all of the things necessary in a much faster way Um, that does not necessarily mean that the data is going to be worse. They're still going to be doing clinical well controlled clinical trials. These are still going to be Scientific trials. Yeah, it's it's just the reason it's also not normally done. It's it's riskier It's uh, sort of like running up the credit card because you're pretty sure you're going to get the promotion at work But it's not even going to be decided till a month from now and there are other contenders So it's it's risky for everyone involved Uh, in terms of uh, funding it and going forward with it and all of this But yes, exactly what like you just said it doesn't doesn't actually affect the scientific method It's the resources that go into it and from resources also money So like you like you said, uh, the analogy of running up the credit card ahead of time That's exactly what's happening is the money that is needed to make these clinical trials happen is being made available Whereas uh, in normal situations, it might take a lot longer to get that money to make the trials happen Um, so it makes those resources available, which is very important. I think that's a really important point And as Fauci said just yesterday in uh, in his testimony in front of congress He said this is promising But nothing is promised So there is potential there, but he said, you know, maybe By winter will be through phase three and have some inkling of whether or not it's actually going to work But we need to remember there. Yes, there are 80 Vaccines under development around the globe right now. This is the I think this is the most exciting part of it Is that so many people Are given the resources right now to work on so many different ideas It's that diversification and resource allocation that is so important For science to actually move forward and I think that is the most exciting part of This vaccine acceleration and this moves me right into My next story which comes on the heels of a nature publication researchers published in nature today Uh a a study looking at uh anti-vaccine spread on networks within facebook and this study was looking not at covid but it is Very applicable to the situation that we are in uh under today. They were specifically looking more at Just where anti-vaccination groups are showing up in places like facebook and how they are getting their messages out to the public and What they what they're really finding is that the Reach Of the groups was really shocking the the first author neil johnson Who's a professor of physics? Who studies collective behavior behavior on social media? He says what we thought would be fringe is actually the core His work is focused on measles and he started looking at these online groups and found that these uh that There there are clusters of anti-vax groups that reach undecided people on facebook and because of the Variety in the messaging that anti-vaccine groups use they are much more able to Reach out to the yoga moms reach out to the uh the very conservative Uh people on facebook they're able to reach out to people who are afraid of corporations and pharmaceutical companies they are they have a variety of messages whereas What they found for uh the pro-vaccine groups is that the pro-vaccine groups are not as well spread Because their messaging is much more limited their messaging is hey Vaccines save lives And so it's a much more uh what they what they call it. It's very vanilla The pro-vaccine groups are like here's a vanilla ice cream. That's all we've got But the anti-vaccine groups are like look i've got Exactly i've got chocolate syrup I remember what's going on with climate change at messaging and how maybe 10 years ago You know, maybe even less than that actually a lot of client scientists out there Had the understanding, you know, we are scientists. We are not public relations personnel Here is the data the data will speak for itself And we have learned that when you have truth on your side and scientific evidence and data You have a tendency to want to say like well, there it is. Here's here's the situation and when you are kind of Creating a narrative. Let's say I think things get more flowery and more persuasive Well, that's and that's the key word It's it's manipulation versus messaging Mm-hmm But it's also important about uh the what I what I really want to Pinpoint here is the fact that the variety of different messages Allow it to be framed in it's like an all-you-can-eat buffet You can if if there's something that appeals to you You're gonna find it in there. So maybe the um, you know anti-vaccine messaging about You know about freedom. Maybe that doesn't ring a bell with you But maybe the anti-vaccine messaging about oh the the bad corporations who are You know not thinking about us. They're thinking about uh, or the pharma companies that all they care about is money Maybe that messaging works for you. So the the variety of the messages basically Allows that whatever a hot button issue hits you emotionally to start to Insert that sliver of doubt to insert that question into your mind Suddenly it's there. And so what they found when they did their network analysis is that the anti-vaccine groups are Well distributed pretty much everywhere on these social media platforms. They they looked at facebook So within facebook whereas the pro-vaccine groups Were isolated comparatively and not even Really interacting with the anti-vaccine groups for a large part So a lot of the messaging that the pro-vaccine groups want to get out Isn't even getting to the people that they want it to reach But don't you think part of that is because Provax are in and of itself is like a weird thing to say like that just means you're the standard, right?  So I just feel like there's a situation here where I'm not going on facebook every day Saying i'm pro-vaccine Right, but the people who are going against the establishment if you want to look at it that way They are going to be more vocal about moving from standard So I also feel like People who you would want to consider pro-vaccine are probably very well connected and that blob is probably way larger than this anti-vax or blob But people aren't putting that information out there Because it's a given Right, and so maybe that is the uh, that is part of the problem is Who is talking about it where and why where you don't necessarily go out and talk about You know putting on your pants in the morning You don't do that. I mean maybe now during covid we do you're like, yeah, we're pants today but you know Maybe it's a different but the I mean we should when we go and get our flu shot or when we go and get Um our tb test or whenever we do any standard medicine Maybe this means we need to share it And if you are in a social group That you see somebody Spouting off it with particular views you need to address that and talk about not necessarily saying I think you're wrong and attacking But you need to address it and say hey, I get vaccinated Vaccinating is great because of blah, you know just Stay positive and state your case and counteract whatever you see out there in whichever places you see and I you know in in in terms of the You know the vaccines that are being developed now I think that is part of the messaging that uh, you know, I'm thinking that messaging needs to Take take into account the fact that they're talking about fast tracking and accelerating and people go fast Isn't that bad? You're not taking the time Well, we need to start talking about the care that is being taken the people who are working on these vaccines who Care about saving lives. We need to talk about why the vaccines are being Developed in a faster way You know so that we can at least counteract a bit of the fear I was thinking today that maybe you know, we've got the the startup culture It's you can do you can pick two out of three either fast cheap or good Which do you choose right? So we've got the fast messaging out there already Let's focus on the good Right We need to talk about why this vaccine is so important. You know, we need we need to work on that and And talk about the the how talk about how much time and effort the scientists are putting into this Yeah, I mean we talked about that a couple weeks ago scientists Science is having a moment, right? Yeah, so can how can we make sure to to take advantage of that? to So but we're we're not going to we're and we're not going to engage No, we're no, I'm serious We're just not going to be able to engage in the way that you were describing the anti-vaxxers are engaging Um Unless we started lying and manipulating people and I'm not gonna do that Right, but this is this is the thing you would have to say You know, you'd have to instead of god will prevent you from uh getting a disease You don't need the science government vaccine.  Why didn't you get on any of them? Right? What were you waiting for? That's what the vaccines are. I sent you vaccines. I I I put these ideas That's a weird have to be talking like that God has created vaccines through these scientists using them as vessels for his will and that's why they exist He would have to be having the conversation like that the only way to prevent i've had conversations like that Yeah, my mom was christian scientist. She had multiple sclerosis. She didn't want to go to doctors For about a decade I had to convince my mom that going to doctors was a great idea because don't you think god would want us to Be smart enough to try and fix ourselves But but this isn't the conversation that uh that responsible entities are wearing the gauging They're not going to tell you know the the preppers and the you know anti-government preppers like The only way to keep the government from getting you sick and putting them in their health Putting you in their healthcare system and taking advantage of you is to get vaccinated against the diseases They've been building in secret labs in foreign countries Like you literally have to be talking to them on that insane level to try to manipulate them into And nobody's going to do it nobody. I don't want this is us number. It's like I don't want to manipulate people. I want people to make the decision themselves and that's the that's difficult It's also like the whole problem with like people who are concerned about overpopulation Not wanting to have too many kids That just means that less people who are concerned with it are going to be on the planet a generation from now That's it's still you It's it's a winning battle to be ignorant. That's the thing.  It's a winning battle I hope not. I hope not and I just want to take a minute talking about going against Misinformation.  Yes. Yes. Yes. So a quote unquote Documentary It's called propaganda is what it is. There was a video that came out online this last week It has since been taken down by youtube and facebook and vimeo and other video platforms because of its peddling of misinformation one of the key interviews in the video went on to say things like Wearing a face mask Actually would cause you to get infected Because it activates the virus now. Oh, I want you all to know I want you all to know that is absolutely untrue and there is no documentation anywhere that supports that claim Wearing a face mask has only been shown to be to be helpful to your not spreading the disease More more for you not spreading it to others than for yourself not getting it Um Just an idea if it is war if it is worn correctly It must be worn correctly and and that is where it is right now. It's common courtesy and respect for other people That is why you would want to wear a face mask, but the uh the video itself had many many items Within itself that were entirely untrue and or at least misrepresented Uh, and there are several websites npr science the triple a s science news site and others live science that have taken the time to do To do fact fact checks of pandemic So I do hope if you have not seen Pandemic that you will look out for one of the fact checks and not necessarily look out for the video itself the the goal of the video is unclear, but for the large part it it it seeks to undermine The voices like fouchies at the cdc that are working to save lives That are working to bring us together to try and get us to work together as a society to overcome this pandemic and It's also it seems to be a video that is looking to sow seeds of doubt with respect to vaccine So I do hope that we all take this to our hearts and when we go into the social media moving forward and see people Say things that potentially came from that video that we can that we can address them With reason with logic And with with care because these are other people who just might be a little misguided and misinformed because they didn't get their information from the right place Yeah, I think it's it's definitely it's taken a turn where Before there there were definitely judgments and I am not without blame there of people doing things or like You know, that's not right, but now it's at a point where there's actual misinformation Getting fed out there. Yeah So it's not even that people just didn't know better. It's that they're actually being actively misinformed. So it's taking a completely new turn Yep, it's wild. It's wild. It is. All right. Why do you sorry? Uh, Yeah, it oh it's darwin. He's still he still has my land. I don't know Okay, okay. Oh, that's darwin. He he says Don't worry. He's got this It'll the problem will be corrected in time and while that is I do appreciate that joke I do appreciate that joke the darwin awards are fantastic. I also I also don't like it because it means that other people who Didn't You know who who were trying to be safe who are trying to do things the best of ways can still potentially be affected because of the thoughtlessness And disrespect of others. So that's the real kicker man Is it's not just the people who are ignoring the best efforts of everyone trying to keep people safe Is they could you know wander into the hospital and get a loved one who works in a hospital sick I know so let's all let's all it's a very specific location. I don't know. Yeah We all have to do our part and we all have to we all have to play our part and that is this is a societal issue And if you can help people Understand how to do things better then we should do that and yeah, yeah Let's be let's let's try to be good to each other respect each other wear masks wash hands and call out misinformation when we see it because We don't need those slivers of doubt that are already there When a vaccine is finally available, but I'm gonna say is even though I know it might never come I just I have that hope I have that little bit of hope All right, let's move away from the misinformation and the the covid news of the week Oh, yeah, um, apparently there's another study that says cats might get covid Oh, we've been knowing about that. We know that they they looked at three cats this time. Oh, okay. Yeah huge sample size um, the stellids so weasels and um now they're saying uh, Pig and pigs and pig relatives maybe also. Yeah in this new study. They found the cats could give it to each other So cats can pass it to other but it was a very small sample size But in their sample set cats passed it to other cats and if cats can pass it to other cats They can probably pass it to people But we can't ethically do those experiments. So just know that maybe Don't pet the neighborhood cat that's out there in your neighborhood when you're out for a walk wearing your mask Or just make sure you wash your hands Justin Do you have some science news from the journal aging and disease? Which sounds like a type of periodical nobody nobody subscribes to until pretty much it's too late That's what if you're subscribing to that Probably my weekly articles Blair you're not in the aarp listening to this yet. Come on Uh, okay, so according to this so micro RNAs play a big role in our bodies Controlling of gene expression. They're also the frontline When it comes to an invading virus They latch can latch on to and cut into the RNA of uh of a virus and The genetic material of the virus as well. This is dr. Saranand Fousella Aging researcher in the department of they're not actually the the researchers not that they're especially aged or aging any faster than the rest of us They're an aging researcher Then the department of medicine and center for healthy aging at the medical college of georgia Augusta university With age the study finds And certain chronic medical conditions the attacking micro RNA numbers dwindle reducing our ability to respond To viruses says dr. Carlos the sales of the division of end endocrinology diabetes and metabolism so They actually identified Uh a number of micro RNAs. They had samples of sars The the 2002 version and the sars covet 2 which is the cause of the covet 19 Uh, and they had the sequences of micro RNAs that appeared to be attacking attacking these viruses Using computer simulations. They also had taken these samples not just from one Sort of group of people, but they had 29 samples that were from uh 17 countries five continents, so they got a really nice grouping of this They found 848 micro RNAs that target the sars genome 873 micro RNAs that target sars covet 2 They found 558 micro RNAs that uh that were fight sars and covet 2 While there was 315 that were unique to the covet 2 So, uh, what's sort of interesting they also found a not they found 10 target sites That uh could be found through this simulation that would be the most proficient at fighting the virus Very interesting what what's really kind of nice about this too is because They've found these micro RNAs and individuals from Very far away very disparate uh places that shows that these micro RNAs are not Something from a local gene pool or something of this nature, but they seem to be pretty universal And have the ability to attack different points of the virus So ultimately they are trying to create the what they think would be a sufficient trial to Create market micro RNAs outside of the body and then introduce them in some ways perhaps even to the nose according to Sort of this but I think ultimately what this this sort of research does is it will then inform uh also the community who of of people who are looking at Ways to attack this virus with different Different attack points different weaknesses different strategies that they might employ But also very interesting because there is there is a drop-off Of these micro RNAs as we age and if we've ever wondered why it is People who are older are more susceptible This this might be a pretty good clue It might be it's still correlation Some mechanism involved at the at the basis of this Yeah, I mean I wonder and if it is the case that some of these micro RNAs are reduced as you age then maybe There's a way to increase them Is there is there a treatment a medication that could increase it? Yeah Yeah, so so there, uh, this is a quotey voice of Uh, I say else he says my perspective is that there's a key set of micro RNAs that important to Important in triggering this abnormal response and making older patients more susceptible We're looking at micro RNAs in general dropping Uh, but there is a specific subset that is key the question is whether we can target those as a therapy You can get somebody A cocktail of multiple key micro RNAs. They're potentially all attacking the virus Uh, might be sufficient to to kill the virus That would be pretty awesome Although we are seeing that there are some younger cases Children these rare childhood cases that appear to have an inflammatory Responses how is hockey's disease and something else an intestinal reaction Pulmonary problems. Yeah, but I'm also seeing intestinal reactions Like they are getting one of the first symptoms apparently that you're you're seeing in children isn't the The coughing is respiratory issues But it's good. It's like, uh, yeah And I remember when this all started they were saying like gut stuff like probably not common then You probably have just like the flu or something else But I guess children have increased, uh, ACE2 receptors in their intestines is Somehow part of that Yeah, they're it's so interesting. There's so many things that are I mean Just really unknown that we have to learn Well, and as Justin's talking about before this is like a reminder of how people look at science and and how people who understand how science works See this versus how a person who who's kind of more removed from the process sees it and we see it as like This is great. We're learning new things all the time and somebody else can see and go They don't know what they're talking about those scientists No, no, it is this is how it works. It's completely like this behind the curtain Until uh, everybody has been chasing down these these no hypothesis Until there's something left at the end and then you go We've uh got a pretty good lockup. It's probably that yeah Uh, but yeah, so so this is you know speaking of things that people may uh Not know as much about as they thought they did despite what your gynecologist might have told you your lesions It might be pretty common And actually completely benign Uh, for years researchers have become concerned about a possible link between gynecologic lesions called endosalpingiosis Yes I was just taking a shot at it first time through it's okay. We'll call it es from here on out So the link between es and ovarian cancer, however Using a diagnostic method typically reserved for specimens Suspicious for cancer a team of researchers led by baler college of medicine physician found the prevalence of es and other gynecological lesions Was substantially higher than ever previously reported or discovered Among women without cancer The high rate of occurrence led the researchers to believe that maybe there wasn't actually a link between lesions and cancers had been previously suspected now one of the things that is true is that Women who have ovarian cancer have higher rates of these lesions However They also have much more throw examinations right And they're saying like that might just be it when they've done these studies that have shown correlation and linkages They actually have never done the one where they've done that investigation on women who don't have cancer So then what happens is you end up with this Uh, this is a little bit of bias about What you're seeing and what that is linked to and the data and so there are probably untold Millions of women in the world have been told you have some lesions It's probably it's could end up being it's benign now But it could be catch who just have the whole like the stress of that When it turns out. Yeah, it's it's actually when I say common Uh, you might think I'm saying a number like 10 percent 20 percent now this was uh researchers found es alone was uh in 37 percent of women 31 to 50 66 percent of women post-menopausal 22 percent Let's see. What was this her relevance Yes, so after implementing their new protocol the prevalence of es increased from two and a half percent Which is where it was before to 22 percent in all specimens over the period. So, yeah, uh Basically what they have just discovered, uh, is that When doing science You need you need that control group Before you you you must have that control group In order to come to any conclusion Yep Yep, and I think JJ's are probably in much better shape than than uh your gynecologist. I thought Which is great news I mean, it's had one last thing for the gynecologists to worry about and for you to worry about But I think your point about control groups and Not just control groups, but if you can produce randomly assigned groups, whether it's control or test groups That is Really really important to making these determinations about whether something is actually a sign of disease or whether it's a correlation Happen stance and we're running into that a lot Right now with these with covid 19 studies because many studies are happening On the fly in hospital wings when doctors are like, I'm just going to look at this and they have 14 patients in their In their intensive care and those are the only patients they look at Yeah Symptomatic people are avoiding hospitals Right And your medical doctors your your physicians your hospital doctors They haven't they have not been really involved in scientific research Since four out of five of them recommended camel cigarettes for a smoother throat like like they have not but this is not what they do This is not what they studied to do. It just isn't um It's very different md phd if you're an md phd You did study to you learned how to do the research But uh medical doctors know they did not they are technicians for the large part Intelligence people for sure, but yeah, absolutely. It's a different different task. I mean it's like how it's a different skill It is yes, we're not worried about double blinding what they're doing. They're trying to say no, they want to make something work Yeah, it's a completely different application case. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah Any really great great great news to start this show off This is this is this week in science if you are just tuning in And if you are interested in a twist shirt or a mug or other item of twist merchandise Head over to twist.org and click on our zazzle link to browse the store Blair just put some new items in there new pillows and sweatshirts and Wrapping paper in case you need to give a fun gift lots of artwork Great stuff in our zazzle store if you want to take a look there And now it's time for us to roll into that segment of the show that is full of Blair Blair's animal corner What you got Blair? Well, I have an amazing story about mother sea turtles And an extra bit of care that they give to their babies before they leave them forever Yeah So as we know Sea turtles, uh, they will dig a nest and they will lay hundreds if not more eggs Um In this nest cover it up with sand and then go back to the sea and after that The babies the the eggs are incubated They hatch they crawl out of the sand and they head to the water on their own So the the mother doesn't really give much in terms of parental care Except for in finding a nesting site and creating that nest What you already know is really important because the location can have a lot to do with how many predators There are how close to water they are and their temperature of the eggs inside the nest Which as we've discussed before is directly related to whether those turtles are hatched male or female It's all based on the temperature of the nest where they are incubated But now we know something else that sea turtle mothers do to take care of their eggs This is a piece of research from university of glasgo This is looking at leatherbacks and hawksbill sea turtles And it turns out that when females cover their nest Where they lay their eggs they spend a whole bunch of extra time kind of shuffling around the beach And it looks like they're scattering sand At the around the next site or next couple of sites before heading back to the ocean Scent spending extra time on the beach Is a lot of risk It's exposure. It's exhaustion predation Humans there's lots of reasons to head to the ocean as quickly as you can after you deposit those eggs Not to mention the fact that just your presence there could be an indication that there is a nest so You could see how they would want to scoot as soon as possible back to the ocean But they do this funny shuffling at what would be the next nest site And when they closely followed the activity of these hawksbill and leatherback turtles They they're findings support the idea That they are creating a decoy nest To reduce the likelihood that their nest will be dug up So it it's not that they're disguising or camouflaging the real nest It's that they are making a decoy So they spend this extra time out on the beach to try to Beat the odds Of someone disturbing the nest that they made And when they looked into other turtle species two other species They they found similar behavior and those two other species actually Are not super closely related to the hawksbill and leatherback sea turtle their common ancestor is over 100 million years old So they think that this could be potentially a highly conserved strategy across turtles So, yeah, if you are If you're you're going to you dig up two or three of these things that look like they might be nests and they aren't Yes Yeah Which is is also interesting because there's actually um a conservation project you can volunteer for Where you basically just hang out on a beach And in Costa Rica and you're basically a turtle guard You're just making sure that people aren't bothering the mother sea turtles And it's because you don't want to disturb them while they're laying But now you can see it's even more important that they don't get disturbed by humans In this process because it's more than just laying eggs and covering the eggs up It's it's about the secondary process of reducing the probability that those eggs will be predated upon by predators so They really need to they need to spend some time on that beach Who are the predators? Are they are they birds? Are they um other just Beach dwelling reptiles Yeah, I mean it yeah depends on the turtle and and what's where where they are there, but yeah Mostly birds But depending where you're at if there are any sort of crocodilians or anything like that they would definitely go for it um Reptiles for sure Yeah I haven't heard of a lot of mammals going for turtle eggs, but I could be wrong about that I wonder if there's a difference right now in their behavior this year because there are no people around It's interesting you should Mention that and there is uh, they already found um that the Nesting beaches are much more peaceful and the leatherbacks are nesting much better So overall the whole process Yeah, yeah, just yet another species. It's like finally a break Yeah, I mean there's There are stories all over about all the baby sea turtles making their way off of the beaches this year It's going to be a bumper year for the the sea turtle population That's great because it takes them like 50 years or something to be sexually mature. So Are they just the ultimate uh, uh, nature Over nurture like when do they get to see another turtle? When do they hang out with turtles again? Takes a while How do they yeah, how do they know anything? They just uh waters over there. They just know It's so amazing. It is real. That's really amazing Yeah, and mama is not there to tell them how to do it Mama's like I laid you I protected you. I shuffled around I waved my flippers and threw sand around. I tried to Did my part did my part look over here. Look over here. It's like the ultimate misdirection of a magician You were watching this hand, but you should have been watching this hand Yes Yes, my nest is not under that flipper. It's under this one Well, what else do you have speaking of babies? I know a lot of people have been adopting puppies since everyone's stuck at home and I Adopted a puppy just in time last november Yes, we did and A study came out that really it It hit home. So I wanted to share my experience. So this is from new castle university and university of nottingham I can't say it any other way. I have to say nottingham Nottingham This is about adolescence in dogs. So Before I am going to say what scientifically occurred here in this study. I will say that My puppy has been very very smart. She was the best in her class. She she was learning tricks really well In a couple of months ago. She just kind of Started acting. I'm not going to say defiant But just like you would ask her to do something and she just kind of stare at you And walk away like I know know how to do this. What's What's going on here and then other times she would do it and then she would do other things But not the most simplest simple tasks and I kept joking that She was an angsty teenager. Well This study is looking at adolescent behavior in dogs And that dogs were more likely to ignore commands given by their caregiver And they were harder to train At approximately the age of eight months when they are going through puberty or in their quote-unquote teenage years So right away I I was thinking oh my gosh. I just experienced this Um And it's also more pronounced in dogs that have an insecure attachment to their owner which right now Everybody all the animals do because everyone's home all the time So it's true. Yeah, that is an additional piece here And kind of why this is relevant and isn't just like oh, yeah dogs are people too sort of story is that actually adolescents is a time when puppies that were adopted or purchased Are dropped off on mass to shelters lots of dogs get re-homed between eight and 12 months And we usually think like oh, it's just because they're not cute puppies anymore But this is taking it to a whole nother level So suddenly if it's not just that they're not a cute puppy anymore But also that they're ignoring commands or they're quote-unquote difficult to train Or a more challenging dog It's just because they're teenagers And that that phase is actually likely to pass So if you know this going in and you could push through to the year mark with this dog if you're having trouble It might be better Yeah, some of the problems might go away Which if you know that as a new dog owner that can completely change that dog's life if it's not re-homed at that time Because also keep in mind that if this dog is already going through behavior issues And has an insecure attachment to their owner and now they're being dropped off at the shelter That can have a lifelong implication So it it can like feed itself right so the initial study was with a group of 69 dogs and they monitored obedience in them It was just Labradors and golden retrievers for this initial study and they also looked at crossbrades of the two They looked at them from ages of five months, which is before adolescence and eight months during adolescence What I think is so interesting is that they took longer to respond to the sit command Which was exactly the one Sadie knows how to do all this stuff. She knows how to shake. She knows down.  She knows all these different things And for some reason I would ask her to sit. She'd just kind of be like no So specifically the sit command They would take longer to respond But only when the command was given by a caregiver Not a stranger if a stranger walked into the room and said sit they did it Right away. This sounds like what I'm going through with my nine-year-old child. Yeah So The odds of repeatedly not responding to that sit command from their caregiver were higher at eight months compared to five months And then they did an additional test with 285 dogs the Owners and a trainer less familiar with each dog filled in a questionnaire looking at trainability So they asked them to do a bunch of stuff. He said, okay, so things like do they refuse to obey commands? Do they refuse to obey commands which in the past they have learned? Do they respond immediately to a recall command when they're off lead? And the caregivers gave lower scores of trainability to dogs that were in adolescence But the trainers actually had an increased trainability score between five and eight months So it really is a behavior choice to ignore the request of their caregiver Oh adolescence, I'm not gonna do what you say I'm gonna do what I want And and this is where they they bring up kind of what you talked about that This is something that we see paralleled in parent-child relationship And that it's you know, this conflict could be similar between a dog's primary caregiver and the and the dog Which also means that it's really important that you don't give up on the dog in this difficult time Like I mentioned, but also that you don't punish the dog for disobedience or start start to they say pull away emotionally Because that can actually make it worse. It's like When you punish a teenager for acting out and then it kind of it's snowballs, right? So it's it's just It's very interesting to see that in dogs in a way that we can really Quantify and in a way that resonated with me so strongly is very interesting But now of course, I can't help but wonder what other animals are going through this We can measure it because we are asking things of these dogs. So the dogs have relationships with us that we can measure But if we start to look at I bet you parents of monkeys or or a group of parrots Do you see similar things happening with what you would consider an adolescent individual Ignoring desires of others. Oh, I think that's probably absolutely in the ape world I'm sure that's oh, yeah Oh, yeah, and and not just but like you said though not just the desires of others the desires of those they are attached to Because it's this is a step. I'm gonna take towards my own independence toward deciding to do this whether or not you've told me to do it Right, right and it's probably hormonal You know, I I don't know.  Do they have that that sense of mind to be defiant in that way? Or is it just hormones making them do what they're gonna do Right, or is it hormones making them defiant? Zach exactly and and how does that work? How does that work? Oh, I love it Defiance Oh, so fascinating Thanks for giving us that little angsty story Yeah, I'm glad I don't have a dog. I will report that now that Sadie is 10 months She is starting to come out of it. She is she is better than she was a month ago It's very interesting Keep us updated. Let us know how it goes I Would love to know. All right, everybody I would love you to know that this is this week in science and I want to say thank you for Listening to twist you are the reason that we're able to do this every single week that we can come here and talk about science And share with you and talk with you. It's all because of you and if You with your help if you help us out We can really do more. We can grow this show. We can tell more people about Curiosity build curiosity talk about science and what is knowledge? What is scientific method? How do we do all this? We can talk about these things We can combat misinformation With you so head over to twist.org right now if you haven't already done it Click on the patreon link and choose to be A patron of twist choose your own level of support and be a part Of bringing sanity and science to more people I'm gonna do a little music right now because I think just in one way And we're back you're listening to this week in science. Yeah We have more science for you That's right If you have a what has science done for me lately story or Another kind of question or comment about stuff. Be sure to reach out to us. My email is kirsten k-i-r-s-t-e-n at thisweekinscience.com And we will do what we can to answer your questions and also read your letters on the show I have chimeras I do There's a cool chimera story. I'm always one for chimeras. I really love bringing them into the show. I've talked before about efforts by researchers to meld human cells with other animals and there has been research to to To get human stem cells to incorporate into the embryos of pigs and sheep and monkeys and mice and now there is a new study that is out of let's make sure I know exactly where they are from. I think it is from university of southwestern Texas is where these researchers are working. Yeah, university of Texas southwestern medical center in Dallas And the researchers who just published their research in science in science advances have used a new method to incorporate human stem cells into animal embryos they used mice in this particular situation and They did what they call resetting the clock on the human cells to get them to combine a little better with the mouse cells So they took human stem cells and they They reverted them Back to a pluripotent state to a state where these cells would potentially Not even remember their identity. Who cares if I'm human whatever and then they They affected a cell called not a cell a protein called mTOR and mTOR is a clock protein It's related to the setting of our circadian clocks And it's how our cells kind of coordinate with each other and have synchronized timings So that things like cellular development can take place at a particular pace of time They affected the The human cells to make them more useful and injected These cells into about batches of about 10 or 12 of these stem cells into mouse embryos That only had about 60 to 80 mouse cells Which so they were at a very early stage of their mousy development really really early on in their division about 14 days after fertilization They were by doing this able to increase the amount of human cells that survived In the mouse tissues From the small numbers that have previously been seen in other studies with chimeras with different species To between 0.1 and 4 percent of the total cells in the embryos And while that doesn't seem like a lot it when it comes to the number of cells We're we're talking millions of cells now As opposed to hundreds or tens of thousands so what they have been able to do by Essentially making the human stem cells forget Who they were and forget what day it was Those cells could then take the instructions of the surrounding mouse embryo cells And start to develop More like mouse cells than human cells And that is uh, that's kind of what this study shows is that these cells that are in the mouse embryo They incorporated in a way that They didn't try to stay human. They kind of tried to do mousy things They took the mouse instructions. So Micro RNAs messenger RNAs signaling proteins Things that would be the bath of development in a mouse embryo And the human cells it didn't matter. They're like, oh, I'm just gonna do what the mouse Embryo tells me to do There was a there was an interesting story that we didn't ever get to Uh Because I read it and I didn't get it and then uh time passed But it was researchers are trying to explain that like Why and I was I was I think we talked about in an after show once uh about a researchers like the genetic code is Is uh more ingredients than it is building instructions that the actual work Of what does what happens at the tissue level? And I think this is kind of a fascinating example of that. It's it's like, yeah, we put in different ingredients But the tissues were like no, we're not we're gonna put this over here That's not how that goes together if that's gonna go together like this and it's actually tissue communication Uh that does a lot of the things That yeah, you can trace it back to DNA to a great degree of Using the right ingredients But it's actually the construction to taking is taking place on a level above that code Which is a really fascinating uh Fascinating thing which I read the paper. I totally couldn't quite understand Um, but it does it does uh tell us that there is much more To to yeah, well if you think about with uh, you know human development It's okay. There is an instruction a little piece of messenger RNA that or micro RNA most likely that goes to another location in The DNA right and says okay, we want some of this protein right now And so this gene needs to get translated and the amount of the micro RNA is going to be responsible for how much of that protein The gene gets translated and transcribed into a protein And so these instructions kind of say we want this much bone We want this much cartilage, you know versus we want extra we want less And so it's those those little control factors that are a big part of You know Making us unique To our species there are genetic differences, certainly But these mice apparently in this study they Apparently grew normally the human cells incorporated themselves But the one thing that is interesting is they did not find any evidence of sperm or eggs in the mice incorporating human DNA or human cells So there were no in the sperm there were no well look i'm a human sperm In the eggs there were no look i'm a human egg like there was How did I end up here? There was none of that it was all mouse Right so the the these chimeric mice aren't necessarily well they're research mice They're not going to go on and reproduce anyway, but they're not necessarily going to go on and reproduce mouse human hybrid chimeric animals There's there's not an issue with that at this point Yeah, so it's yeah, it's very it's a very interesting question whether this affecting the clock genes You know not just okay your human cell and we're sticking you in another animal But I I'm gonna spin it's it's basically the equivalent of pin the tail on the donkey, you know or or You know one of those children's games where you put somebody in a blindfold and spin them around in circles And then you know take the blindfold off and go Go see where you where you get or you know, it's it's the equivalent of You know just really it's it's really messing up the clock cells messes up the cells ability To understand where it is and what it's supposed to be doing And so the only thing it then knows is the instructions it's getting from outside of itself And those instructions being all mouse it's gonna say oh, okay. I guess I'm a mouse Yeah, it's very interesting. We'll see if there if this goes further in other species I uh with other chimeras and I don't know who knows where it'll go Uh, so we've talked quite a bit on this show in the past about global warming Uh, but I'm gonna actually this is a story about global cooling Hmm Actually, it's about the glacial maximum That we had is 40,000 ish years ago Uh, fun fact when we talk about when we talk about the global warming we're talking about the the sea level rise quite a bit um Do you know how much uh, how much lower the oceans were? Uh 40,000 years ago ish during the glacial maximum No, but I bet they're underwater now 410 feet What? That is the sea level change Since that glacial maximum 410 feet. So thankfully Thankfully the lot of the melting's already been done so the rest of the melting to come Isn't going to be as impressive. We may only have sea level rise of some 30 40 50 feet But it still seems like a lot because we all live by the coast and that's not new We've always lived by the coast this is uh This is so yeah, oceans have been rising for thousands of years to some degree or another this this current uh research paper is published in geographical review and they looked at that thing that I that's one of my favorite like subjects, which is they played with maps and understanding of what's going on under the sea to try to figure out what How people moved around and migrated? Uh at what they call choke points, uh, which is actually the the paper's called choke points They're looking at the narrow land corridors that connect larger bodies of land across waters uh at that period 20 000 years ago and further to see Where else we should be looking for? human migration paths as well as civilizations So one of the things that uh that they they did say they dialed all of this back and they created their new map one of the things that jumped out at them Uh was in alaska The in the Bering Strait turns out the Bering Strait if you drop the sea level that much and you look at how things have changed over this time and dial everything back Was littered with islands in between And the islands sort of started first appearing on the eastern part Uh, excuse me the western part of that Strait and then sort of started popping up further and further and further To the west so that if you were in the Siberia side At some point there was an island Visible out there on the coast and if you managed to get on a little bit of boat and get out to this little Reachable island that you could see Or you could see another island a little bit further east and if you went there you could see another and another and another And so it sort of may not have been completely walking across but it might have been island hopping all the way over which is a really sort of fascinating thing because uh one of the things that we've sort of come to learn Is that a large part of the native population? In the the the americas Shows up very early in south america Uh, there is there is some evidence of the oldest being somewhere up in the that cave in the yukon Uh, maybe 25 000 years ago Uh, a lot of the population then waits until the glaciers melt But there's a population that seems to show up very early in south america Which means they may have had boats to hop across those islands and also continue to take them down the coast So it's opening up some interesting stuff there They also kind of pointed out this is i'm gonna uh, this is a quote from One of the researchers Dobson who is dobson jerry dobson professor emeritus geography at the university of kansas Who's one of the authors of the story? Uh Look at these same choke points today and they looked at they looked at nine global choke points. They had the bearing straight. They had the panama Uh, uh, basprous. I don't even know where that is Dardanelles, so they don't know it straighted gibraltar straights of sissli and messina suez her moves straight Now, like I said, they looked at a lot of these different choke points around the world and doubt them back Because says look at these same choke points today. Watch the nightly news They are centers of ongoing conflict. Notice how the straight of our moves controls the international flow of oil and sparks conflicts uh Suez canal and the role it played in the suez crisis of 1956 in the sixth day war of 1967 Choke points particularly straights are pivotal to conflicts some of the other interesting things that they found also, uh bearing straight there are the sissli and Created almost a separate sea uh from from the Mediterranean And there is they have found in the past a 39 foot long carved monolith. That's 130 feet deep in in those waters So and they they suspect that was about a 10 000 year ago Occupation they're looking at how a lot of the black sea Well, it was landlock or it was landlocked and it didn't really Yeah, it wasn't that big. So there's there's a huge potential For there being a large civilization somewhere underneath The the black sea because of where it was located. It was a key migration point And and so there was very likely cultures and societies that had Taken up residents there but yes, they they don't find the boats uh for a lot of this this because You know, uh, australia probably required boats to get to it Even even when they dialed us back australia isn't a place you can just walk to But of course Boats are tough in the archaeological record in the first place because presumably they're gonna be made out of wood And if the boats were left on shorelines that are 400 feet underwater now And have been moving and eroding and everything all the other processes that go on Yeah, it's it's probably pretty hard to find but it makes that that fantastic argument for underwater archaeology To be something that people should be doing and oh my last story My last word ahead. You know what? Okay. You gotta am I? You go am I I think It shows up next on my It shows up next on my thing here. Okay. Go for it. We may have different rundowns. It's possible Uh, do you think you could outrun a t-rex? Absolutely not. Yes.  Yeah uh So scientists have generally assumed that long limb dinosaurs evolved to uh be speedy Catch up to prey as well as to avoid predators Uh, this is a story at University of Maryland's thomas holts And colleagues suggest that long legs evolved among the biggest dinosaurs So that they could take longer steps and conserve energy. This is uh published in the journal plos one today But when they looked at it when they did when they did uh put this the the size Of t-rex together with how much energy it would take to actually run In the mechanics that would be involved you know No He was not a runner.  I don't I still can't picture where a dinosaur lives. I have no idea uh And then just chasing off the thing that actually ran fast and hunted something Because it's big and scary and just walking up and then taking over the the meal that's already been killed That's probably how t-rex function Just being big not needing to be fast I think what's interesting is uh, I was just Trying to look for images of t-rex, but came across the back in 2017 Apparently there was a study that came out suggesting that t-rex couldn't have run That uh, it was so big and it's long legs were long But if it had run the mechanics would have broken his legs its legs Because he was so heavy Yeah, that t-rex would be heavy even with those little arms And then there was a more recent study that said that uh teenage t-rex went through growth spurts So could you imagine the growing pains and not being able to run and having to just walk away from any predators Who are after you as a teenager you're like and not sitting when your So I'm kind of curious though because they are looking this conversation that they've done here is about a full-grown t-rex I wonder if the youngins actually could move around quite a bit because until you get to a certain weight ratio Uh, those long legs might have allowed them to be quick Which then it could be used to actually run away from prey, which is what they would have needed it for Um, and until they got big enough not to have to run anymore And then they turn around a Apex scavenger Yep And not having to run. Thank goodness Thank goodness. I mean hyenas are like that. You don't mess with hyenas. They don't do a lot of hunting Usually just steal other animals kills I would stay away from hyenas if I were to come face to face with them, which I haven't Who knows maybe someday Speaking of things that might have happened could happen one day. Well People we like to talk about our self control, right? We're humans I have self control. We've talked about the the marshmallow experiment many times on this show Alex is not that's not that's not self control though. That's the whole point of always talking about it That's a strategy. It's an example that people use to talk about self control self control though is Right, but we we talk about also that teenagers don't necessarily have self control because self control Is regulated by the prefrontal cortex, which is one of the last areas of the brain to develop Now this new study doesn't talk about that but It is particularly interesting because these researchers from the university of york Started looking at 500 000 year old flint axes that had been unearthed in west sussex in the village of box grove and the axes have really great craftsmanship and that They would have taken individuals Training and patience and self control Having to forgo a mediacy in favor of long-term goals in order to sit and carve these flint axes And so these researchers argue that because there are such finely crafted hand axes from 500 000 years ago That's that's probably about when we got self control years ago That's too many years ago. That's too many years ago No, no, no, no 5000 years ago 500 000 year old flint axes 500 000 year old where? Yes in sussex I don't know archaeologists This is old. Yes. I have many questions Okay, I just I I'm very curious about the leap here from being able to make an intricate item To that meaning self control Yeah, so I thought that's why I wanted to bring this study up. Yeah Do we know they did it all in one sitting or could they have used this thing and decorated it over time because That's not necessarily self control. That's just Prettying the thing you're using That's like me doodling on the page that i'm taking notes on it's not you know what I mean It's I don't I don't see it for going Use if it's something that could be done over a period of time I also feel like self control and and discipline are different things Um, not necessarily because even uh, you to stick through discipline even though it's training it is still You are controlling your own actions You are the idea is that you are using your cognitive powers to decide on as I said more Long-term goals as opposed to short term gains. So You could get up right now with a rock. Look, I found this rock I could get up with this rock and go try to Find a rabbit to hit it on the head, you know, or I can Uh hunt for berries forget these rocks. Who needs them? I'm gonna go look for herbs and berries or You can say to yourself. I would like to catch More things. I would like to do certain tasks. I have something I want to do I'm going to sit with this rock and I'm going to Take this piece of flint and I'm going to carve it I'm going to sit and I'm going to carve it and turn it into something that's useful that will have benefit to me in the future So they're the planning the long-term planning that goes into the action and uh it inherently argues a level of cognitive ability That is above and beyond You know a cat chasing a mouse or uh, you know other animalistic behaviors Well, uh nanda tells also this is uh, I should go find this story and put it in here because I think it's this week. Uh Selected bovine ribs even though they they caught More deer they didn't use deer ribs. They would wait until they got a uh like a cattle uh rib bone to use for, uh scraping leather because it was much more Durable and handy so I mean the idea that here's the thing that we have today Versus technology then does not in by itself and for a greater cognitive ability Now than then it just means that we've had more technology and a lot more humans sharing and interacting and thinking about things. Um one of the Uh one of the I guess things that we tend to do is is Is think upon the past as though it was Primitive and thought and there is there's not really any evidence for whatsoever Now what is interesting though Is that a lot of these technologies like this 500 000 year old the axes with the care probably were not Very different than the ones that were 300 000 years Probably not too different than ones that they found they can find that are 700 this what what that means is What what what that means is They have been able to pass down information and teach the the finely stepwise process of of manufacturing one of these things 400 000 years which means they had to be good teachers and communicators And for us to think that they they did this with just like watch me do it and repeat No, they there was language once you start getting into teaching a stepwise process There's going to be language involved And what's also interesting is there's places where like humans in neanderthals overlap there or neanderthal and homo erectus and you see Shared technologies emerging where they're both making things in a similar way, which means they also Culturally had to be able to communicate and transfer that information to each other We we underestimate the past all the time Yeah, and I think that's what this study Uh, it gets at a bit is the idea that we think we're special now And self control and our ability to plan for the future and I'm going to save for college Or I'm planning for retirement or I'm going to go on a vacation or you know I'm just not going to eat today because I'm trying to lose weight to wear that dress You know like all these things that we plan for that. We think are so impressive as as human beings 500 000 years ago symmetrical elaborate hand axes took probably a lifetime of skill to develop the knowledge to transfer it to other individuals there This is an example of so much more going on within humanity 500 000 years ago and and and also Also, just just keep pointing here The knowledge that was required to live then and there Was a knowledge of your Ecology your bio you had to understand The movement of animals the seasons and where you were going to find them Where the plants grew what you could eat what you couldn't eat the there's a credit You required an incredible amount of knowledge To survive as a human especially once you start talking about moving into climates, you know, there are The 100 000 had survived in Europe for half a million years Let's talk about even going back even further homo erectus had simple hand axes Almost two million years ago So if we're looking at these hand axes from half a million years ago as examples of self-control and planning and cognitive development Somebody taught those 500 000 year old Humans how to make axes and so there was probably a lot more going on a lot further back Yeah, there's the couple right there's like two and a half million years ago We see this version of axe and a million years later It gets kind of updated with this new kind of technology after that Yeah, but but all and it had to get transmitted down Every time you look at homo florensis Uh and tools that are there are very similar to the ones that the humans started using when they arrived in indonesia So was there a communication? Was there a sharing of knowledge that took place there as well? We underestimate the past because Because we are all so brilliant now. Have you looked around? Well, I'll stop But yeah, yes You are This is the end of the show. You aren't so brilliant. No, I'll spin it out one more one last little tidbit There too is like it could have been An intelligence that was like Leonardo da Vinci or in einstein that came up with a couple of these first chord axes or Cutting tools or put the little eyelid in the thing that made it so they could thread Something together it may have been somebody of Very elite intelligence that today would be what we would consider a genius right Just different times at just different time of technology with what you got and what's what's amazing Is that their technology was so impactful? Uh that it was it became a necessity and so they would dedicate time of teaching and Passing that on from generation to generation as we do now with things that we know to be Core to our survival and pass them on to the next generation Now now I want to see documentaries that portray einstein as a like ancient human No So they remake that caveman tv show, but yeah, that's geniuses. That's right. What's geniuses caveman geniuses We are at the end of the show. Let's get some quick stories in here before we close it up. I It's nighttime where I am right now and in the night you turn on your light Especially in the summer months and you're gonna see those moths fly up to your light those nocturnal Insects, what are they doing out there? What are they doing?  Wow, they're way more important. No no, they're not A study that's out this week said hey everybody's looking too much at daytime species. Let's look at the nighttime and so they looked at nocturnal pollinators and found that they are a very important influence on the pollen transportation for wildflowers and actually contribute to complementary pollination paths in ecosystems that are less frequented by the daytime species and so it is Essential for ecosystem supports that we focus not just on the honey bees which can potentially be negative if you only focus on the honey bees It can be a negative impact on other pollinators, but take a holistic look at All the pollinators and don't forget about the nighttime gardens The pollinators are at night. They're important and they do a lot Don't kill all the nighttime bugs. We need them Bats are pollinators too Right bat pollinators, but that's I was talking about insects Yeah, but I'm just saying there's lots going on at night There's a lot happening at night. We're just asleep. So we're not looking Yeah, and they found in hawk moths and other other nighttime Moth pollinators that they don't carry the pollen in the same way that actually they tend to carry it on their thorax that they climb in the in the plants in a different way And interact with the pollen not quite in the same way as other as the daytime pollinators I'm picturing a moth getting into a flower like a kind of overweight older man getting into a Like oh Rolling around in it. That's good I like it I will never look at moths the same again. Thank you for that. What you got Blair? Uh, I just pictured their antenna as a cove over anyway Um Uh Does everyone know about the telemonster? Um, tell us if this is like a like a Loch Ness thing No This is a fossil. This is from approximately 300 million years ago Kiki if you could share a picture that would be great. And if you're listening to this audio only Google it look up what a telemonster looks like because For this story to be as cool as it is you have to see what this thing looks like I was trying to describe it as a mixture between like a garyl a squid and a muppet So anyway Oh It's telemonstrom gregarium was discovered in 1958 in illinois And as I said from about 300 million years ago And it's about the size of a bowling pin And researchers to this point are Have not reached a consensus on whether or not this animal has a backbone Now looking at it it looks kind of like a squid So you might think it's an invertebrate But then it also kind of has this jawed mouth which makes it look like maybe it could be a vertebrate My money definitely would have been on invertebrate based on its overall body plan But a new piece of evidence indicates They do in fact think That this guy had a backbone. They did a Micro spectroscopy study and looked for either chitin or keratin So if they had chitin somewhere in their body plan Likely that would be an invertebrate. That's what makes the exoskeleton of most invertebrates that have an exoskeleton But it's somewhere in The the body of an invertebrate in most cases and then keratin is the stuff that we have all over our bodies our nails Our hair. It's it's collagen it's It's everything that that's kind of like a harder structure that our body makes chances are it's keratin So they're kind of nails. Yeah, so they're they're unique enough That by just trying to find a trace of either of these things since they couldn't find any actual bones They felt like they could make a pretty good guess and so this study did in fact find keratin Makes them look like They likely have a backbone All right, so this crazy thing is probably a vertebrate Wow, the vertebrate tully monster less like a squid cousin. Yeah, it's one of our cousins Oh It's a more recent cousin as opposed to an older older older cousin. Yeah Swimming in the carboniferous seas I don't know. There's something about in the the way that the image of the tully monster looks where its eyes are Way way back on its back like a squid and then the has this long Beaked appendage at the front that looks like an arm It's like it like an arm with a crab claw, but that's its mouth. It's very odd. Yes with the bellows on the back Yes Mingo to me If you get rid of the legs and the wings and the feathers And put the eyes in a weird place Yeah And put it put spikes spiky teeth in the flamingo mouth. Yes, there we go Oh, I'm never like something went horribly wrong with assembly for sure. I will now be afraid of flamingos Well, uh, according to this though, uh, we're missing some parts So Yeah, so maybe maybe, you know, if you took half your parts away, you'd look pretty odd too Yeah, that's fair. He'd be missing most of its body trying to reconstruct a human without the bones All right, so they seem to be like puddle-like when they moved around It's very thunder fever in the chatroom says must have come with Ikea instructions. Yes. I think the uh, the allen wrench was included Oh nature, you never cease to surprise us with all the various forms I mean if this is the kind of thing that earth biology could have come up with in the past I can't wait to go to other planets. Come on. It's gonna be great Just exciting stuff out there. So much variety. Just a few ingredients Are we done? Did we do it? I think I think we uh performed it So We did we have performed a show Uh Thank you for listening. I really do hope that you enjoyed the show and if you did Please share it with a friend And for those of you out there listening, it's time for the shout outs Fada, thank you for your help on social media and with show notes much appreciated Gord, thank you for manning the chat room and keeping it going over there ID for thank you for recording the show I would also like to thank the boroughs welcome fund and our patreon sponsors For their generous support Thank you to paul disney andrew swanson stu paulic ed dire ken haze Greg landon tony steele alex wilson steve debel joshua furie philip shane ed love science mark miss aros richard porter like sky luke Brian kondren richard eric nap bill k jason roberts matthew liswin litwin jack bob calder Dave neighbor e o kevin parochan matt sutter erin luthan flying out christopher rappin brendan minnish greg briggs robert gary s marjorie rudi garcia curt larson steve leesman Sean lamb greg riley jim drapeau lisa slasuzki christopher drier bryan kerrington christopher uh jason olds john mckay paul ardeam illysis adkins kevin reardon noodles dav wilkinson sue duster paul ronovich earl my shack dive friedel john ratna swami steven alberon sather gradney mountain sloth rodney lewis sarah chavis kerin bentons john gridley gene tellier patrick pecoraro darwin hannon matt base dan kay sarah forfar darnell mundus howard tan jaziah zayner taylor p s ben bignell maddie perron ashley doyle marqueson flow john atwood ali coffin ben rothig john lee Thank you for all of your support on patreon And if you are interested in supporting us you can find information at patreon.com slash this weekend science on next week's show We will be back uh wednesday apm pacific time broadcasting live from our youtube and facebook channels As well as from our headquarters at twist.org backslash live Hey, uh, do you want to listen to us as a podcast? 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It's the end of the world. So i'm setting up shop got my banner unfurled It says the scientist is in i'm gonna sell my advice Show them how to stop the robots with a simple device I'll reverse global warming with a wave of my hand and all it'll cost you is a couple of Coming your way so everybody listen to what i say i use the scientific method And i'll broadcast my opinion all of it's this week in science This week in science science science science this week in science This week in science I've got one disclaimer and it shouldn't be news that what i say may not represent your views But i've done the calculations and i've got a plan if you listen to the science you may just get understand That we're not trying to threaten your philosophy We're just trying to find methods that are rules week in science this week in science This week in science This week in science This week in science Science science science A long list of items i want to address From stopping global hunger to dredging Loch Ness I'm trying to promote more rational thought and i'll try to answer any question you've got The help can i ever see the changes i seek when i can only set up shop one hour week in science is coming You know listen to what we say at science this week in science This week in science Science science science this week in science this week in science This week in science science science science this week in science This week in science This week in science science This week in science this week in science Did we finish it? Is that the show? Did we do it? Click on the Zathol tab again and then click like show all products and that'll show the new ones. Yeah. And then if you sort by like most recent or longer. Laptops. Please. Sort of by popular. Not just by popular. Sort by newest. Yes. Yes. What? Oh my God. Wait, what? Stop making me want to sign it. Well, it's on the back of this twist sweatshirt. That's a zip up. That's blue footed booby. I think I will have this sweatshirt. I think I might have to buy it too. I think I must buy this sweatshirt. Maybe. Maybe we should get one for Justin too. We can all have them. They're so cute. That would be great. I got like obsessed making that last night. I got so excited. Well, I love it because it's got the twist logo on the front. Subtol. Subtol. And then the booby on the back. Yes. Oh my God, I need this. I need this in my life so badly. No, I need it. Well, we all need some athleisure these days. We do. We definitely do. Oh, look, and there's a woodpecker apron. Click on the tote bag. I'm really proud of what I wrote for the tote bag under the description. Okay, I'll go back. I'll go back to the tote bag. The dung beetle tote bag. Oh, and there's a crocodile hat. Look at that. If you click on the tote bag under the description. I know. I'm getting distracted. I got some very exciting products. I got really excited doing them last night. These look great on here. I swear I clicked on that. Come here, description. Go away, sign in. I just changed the thing. What does it say? To carry. Oh, to carry all your. Well, you know. Get it. And it has the twist logo on the back also, by the way. Get it. Oh, good. Twist right there. It's so good. I know. I want that one too. What's a good tote bag? Oh, they're so cute. To carry your all. Dung beetle. Get it. Get it. Let me spell it out for you. I love these. Turned out really good. You have your elephant bird. I haven't gotten there in the months yet. No, that's always. My extinct animal is always in September. Because September 1st is the world is the world requiem day for extinct animals or whatever. Yeah. Oh, there's wrapping paper. Yeah. Oh, cute. Watch that. It's aquatic. Oh my goodness. Beetle mania mug. I had too much fun doing this last night. You did. Unless red panda pillow. Oh, Blair, these are great. The pillow also has the twist logo on the back. I love it. Subtl. Subtl. Subtl. There it is. Nicely done. Thank you for doing that. They're so cute. I want that sweatshirt so much. Justin's back. Sweatshirts, shopping bags. Pillows. These are things everyone could use right now. They are. The coffee mug too. You can put it on whatever type of mug you want. It comes in like beer stein or travel mug. Blair, Blair, you're missing the one thing that needed to be there. What? The twist face mask. I actually didn't look to see if they had one. Are they doing face masks? That's the one that's needed. That's the one I had to order. You're very right about that. I didn't actually think about it. What is it? Is it called a buff? The thing that you put over the whole? That would go over a face mask? Is that what it's for? Oh, yeah, they do have face masks. Okay, I'll add some of these. Really? Yeah. Okay.  They do. For her. For him. Cute. Cloth. Disposable. What's a buff then? It's what they wore on Survivor. I never watched that. I don't know what you're talking about. The cloth masks. A bunch of different styles. Everybody's got masks these days. Oh, my God. What does everyone want on their face mask? I'll pull the audience. There you go. Look at you, Sporty Sport. Oh, yeah, there it is. Oh, I see what that is. That's not going to block much. But okay. Somebody wants some face masks with the booby on it. Okay. This is very convenient because it's very you can have it down and you can like put it up or you can look very French. That's right. You just need to not shave for about 20 minutes and then you look French. And then you can actually wear it as a headband. Yep. Over. Headphones. And you can look like a really hip 80s guy. Hey, I've got something in my ear. It's synthesizer music. It's amazing. You should do just a regular twist logo face mask. Yeah, that's the one. I love your artwork, but the face mask would be good for this would be perfect though. If you could find a buff, the art would be amazing on it. Yeah. I wonder if there's another word for it. Name for that.  I don't know what you call these things. Let's see if I can use this design. Stretchy fabric tube. Stretchy fabric tube. Yeah. On that note. On that note. I'm going to call in. I got a little bit of school work to do and I got a little bit of sleep that has to occur. It's all right. Sleeping is important.  Get your rest. We all need to maintain our health and sleep is a good part of that. I'm glad I had a chance to see you tonight. Everything's good. I'll be in touch to do the rest of the special secret thing. The secret special Oh yeah. Not announced yet. The special secret. I know. Just think Science Island. Just think Science Island. I want you to just think Science Island and secret. Secret Science Island. Secret Science Island. It's not. It's really interesting. I know. It tees just a little bit. I have Plannings Plannings and thoughtings Planning and thoughtings are good. Yes. It is 10. Should we all go to bed?   Well, in the meantime, say good night, Blair. Good night, Blair. Say good night, Justin. Good night, Justin. Good night, Kiki. Good night, everyone. I'm just teasing you, but not. There is a secret science island coming for us soon. I will see you next week. Wait, what's happening? It's not a cult. It's fun. It'll be great. I'm actually like, how? I was looking forward to it. Have a wonderful night. Have a wonderful week. And we look forward to seeing you again next week. Thank you for joining us again tonight.