We're here at Fosca Asia in Singapore so thank you for all coming and thank you for everybody who's on line as well. So who am I? Well, I've been involved in Fosca for almost two decades now, doing a lot of different work in regards to that. Currently, I'm the Executive Director of IEEE SA Open which is IEEE most of y'all, but we know who that is. SA is the standard portion and open is where we're doing work to support open source, open hardware, and open data into the standards. And so we have our own platform for doing that. So some of the stuff that I'll be talking about comes from all of these different areas where I'm both doing this work in IEEE. There's a lot of stuff that's happening in regards to inner source. On the board for Open at RIT which is the University of Rochester Institute of Technology and that's our open source office. And then also working with public code and government and working on a bunch of good governance initiatives including the OSS PG which is the open source software project governance best practices that we're doing with IEEE standards. So that's what a lot of this is going to be based off of. So, you know, a lot of this is like built upon some of the stuff in the past. So some of the other talks that I've given in regards to this kind of leads up to this needs kind of a culmination of all of this to the work. So occasionally it ends up being very high level and I apologize for that. But if you want some of the additional work in regards to that, I can give you links to all of the other presentations that you've already been on online. One of the major ones is why we started doing this diverse advisory course which I'll talk about in a while. I've been also talking about how you get this diverse advisory to actually create a village which is also, you know, the canopy work that I use for an ecosystem. So, and then also I gave a talk about unconscious gatekeeping and tools which is one of the ways you can accidentally hurt your diversity. And also there's been a lot happening in the EU in regards to digital or data autonomy and so a lot of that also drives off of this. So, first of all, what do I mean by an ecosystem? And to be quite honest, I started adopting this language because of Stephen Wally. He gives a bunch of different talks about how open source is not a business model and instead we need to be thinking about the ecosystem picture in regards to it. And I think that that's a beautiful word for doing it because I normally think of it in regards to the biological context of where you can create these little ecosystems to all really work together. And if you forget anyone, you're not going to be sustainable. And so that's why diversity becomes such a key element. Very few ecosystems work correctly with too much singularity. They need to have variety. So, when I look at ecosystems right now in the open source world and the free and open source world, I think of all of these different groups that are coming together. Right now I feel like we're in a third era of free and open source. Our first era was developers doing stuff for developers. People don't like to admit it, but we were a bit supported by government and academia in regards to that. And so we were able to do all of this really amazing work like Apache and Linux and things of that nature. And then we entered into our second era, which is when corporations started to get involved. Thank God we had the OSI in regards to that because they really held the line in regards to what it meant to be open source and really held to that culture and forced a lot of different entities to adhere to that because otherwise I feel like we could have lost our soul in regards to it because corporate has different agendas often than we do as volunteers. And so it was very good to have that. But I feel like right now we're embarking into this third era. And in this third era, it's going to involve educational institutions, foundations, and governments. Right now, you know, especially with what happened with Log4j and things of that other nature and what's also happening in Europe in regards to data autonomy, governments are getting involved. And I feel like I'm kind of uniquely positioned in regards to standards for that because way too often, thankfully in some ways, maybe not in others, they first come to standards to look at what the standards are before they start making those policy decisions. But I feel like open source has not been as involved in that to make that good transition. So we do have to think about that. So that's why I included all of these stakeholders that I did because I really do feel to get to that third level of the ecosystem we need to consider all of those groups and all of those stakeholders when we're creating the projects that we're creating. So what do I mean by sustainable? I mean that it can be maintained. I don't mean that it has to always keep growing. We don't have to be that fine into capitalism and I don't think that's what we actually have to do. I think that we do have to have our ability to grow and let other things die while other things come up too. And so with sustainability, I don't think it has to mean constantly growing, but I think it does have to mean a certain amount of reliability. You know, like what happened with DNS and some of those other different tools, it did not need to keep changing. They were good. It's just that they didn't have a sustainability enough so that when the few errors that did come up or those different things happened, we weren't able to evolve because we let those stagnate. So instead, how do we actually look at making sure that those things don't stagnate and they continue to be viable and upheld? And so what do I mean by diversity? Well, I'm going to be honest with you. I mean all of it. If you go and look at this one, they made 39 different types. I think way too often we get kind of wrapped up in limiting those definitions. And those definitions are good. We need labels. It makes our lives easier, right? How do we measure something if we don't create those? But at the same time, I ask that we not limit ourselves in regards to this. You know, oftentimes in the corporate world when we talk about diversity, we're talking about legally protected statuses, right? We're talking about sex and gender and race and religion and age and disabilities and things of that nature. But I want us to go beyond that. I want to talk about roles. I want to talk about locations. I want to talk about languages. I want to talk about experience levels. I want to talk about all of those because, you know, when I sit down and say it takes a village, I really do mean that. I really do mean that it takes a diverse village and especially for a lot of the work that we're doing, it's worldwide. It's global. We need to look globally in regards to doing that. So we need to look at all of those different forms of diversity. So right now we've got some ecosystems out there. This is one of the ones that I love to do. Notice it spills off of the edge. CNCF. This is their landscape diagram. You know, you want to get off of their website. Hope they don't mind. But you can sit there and see what happens when the landscapes get big, right? This is a big ecosystem. This is where the majority of us start off at in regards to our open source projects. We've got some code. Maybe we've got a little bit of a community going on. If we're lucky, we've created some processes. Maybe we've gone a little bit beyond just the whole maintainer-contributor relationship and have kind of diagrammed a little bit more than that. Hopefully we have some governance. Not necessarily do all groups have governance yet, right? That's why we're trying to do the OS SPG. But there's a big problem with that. And then when does that open source project become an ecosystem? You're going to need a certain amount of sustainability. You're going to need a certain amount of maturity and you need a certain amount of reach to get there. So we want to do this huge gap, right? Well, you have these open source projects. They want to get to an ecosystem or something resembling, obviously we all don't want to be CNCF. But we want to get to somewhere where we can actually bridge that gap. And there's a lot of information on doing a project and there's actually a fair amount of information as to those ecosystems. But there's not a lot bridging the two explaining how you can get there. And the biggest problem that I see that happens is money. You sit there and you have an open source project. We're all in there. We're doing our thing. We're trying to figure it out. But how do we figure out how to handle the money question when we want to create that ecosystem? And a lot of times it ends up being a chicken and egg scenario. I don't know if that's 22 always, if everybody knows about that cross-culturally, but it's when you're in a bind where you need something to do something and you need that to do that. And so you just end up in this infinite loop. Bad recursion. And so I feel like money incurs this all of the time where people are like, oh, we don't want to give you money because you don't have all of these things in place. Oh, but it takes money for me to get all of those things in place. Even opening a bank account requires that, right?  It causes a lot of problems. There's some groups out there that are trying to help with that, like Open Collective, which, yay, thank you. Thank God you're doing that. But I feel like there needs to be more. So to me, one element in regards to how you can make that job is diversity. You have to go out and look for other different roles. And the earlier group that I talked about when you're talking about Open Source 1.0 is developers and developers. Those are not always the same people you want to make that growth to bleep that gap. You want to make sure that you've actually gone through and created this actual ecosystem. And so that means having things like evangelists who are going around and talking well about yourself, doing social media, having event organizers and writers and artists, and most especially the users themselves. I had a great conversation this afternoon with Alma Lennox. And that's a huge push in regards to what they did and why they're doing it the way that they are. It's because they wanted to make sure that users had a really good voice in regards to that. So, and I truly believe one of the things that we did to stress this was we created these advisory groups that advise the Open Source committee that answers to the board. And what they do is we purposely broke them out to where we have a community advisory group which represents the users and non-profits because we are a non-profit entity where a 501c3, which in America means a member-driven organization, so our members and our board makes the budgetary decisions. So it's pretty hardcore in regards to that. It's not a trade association. It is, it works that way. And then we created a marketing advisory group with a little bit of a misnomer because it includes just more than marketing. It's like design and for a place for a lot of the artistic things to exist and then they also do things like open source intelligence and all of these other different aspects. They created a social media toolkit, things of that nature. And then we have the technical advisory group which is similar to what most of y'all are used to seeing projects yet when they grit a certain size of having a technical steering committee that makes a lot of those technical decisions in regards to architecture and features and what direction the software goes into. So we purposely added these additional ones. I'll admit, I totally cribbed from the Linux Foundation on that one. I worked on Hyperledger and we had a marketing steering committee and I loved it and I loved the work that they did and so that's why I brought that over in regards to the advisory group. And then I also saw how some of the Apache ones actually had the community one as well. They kind of owned more things like codes of conduct and things of that nature to make sure that everything stayed nice and friendly and I kind of expanded the scope but it was lessons learned from other open source projects. And so for doing that, it's about when you want to bridge that gap you have to remember that it's more than just code. Because once you start doing the money parts and you start figuring those out, you have to go out there and figure these other things out. You need to talk about marketing, doing the different research, working with designers and architects and here's the one that always gets some people a little bit in a tizzy. You do have to talk about management. It doesn't mean top down hierarchical, dictatorial style of management that some of y'all experience in your career. It is very much so not that. It's still driven from a volunteer basis but it, you know, managers to me, a good one helps facilitate communication. And so it ends up helping with that in regards to the management. A top down decision making thing is that it's a hey, did you know that someone's going to go work on this feature and you're working on that feature? Maybe you two could work together. Things of that nature. And that way you can get to things like quality and safety and maturity because that's the next thing that we have to scale. With that 3.0 level where we have to deal with governments and when we're dealing with academic institutions and nonprofits, we really have to be careful about what we're doing. We're at the age where I feel like it's just like electrical engineering back when IEEE got started where Nikolai Tesla and Edison were doing Edison going in like electrifying poor elephants like how horrible is that but standards needed to be created because they were they weren't endangering people and we're seeing that with software now, right? We're watching things that end up being dangerous in regards to what we're doing and we have that more for us for making that next jump to that next level. And so that's why we're seeing things like OpenSSF being created and the Foundation for Public Code and all of these other different entities because we do realize we need to address the safety, maturity and quality issues. So here we have some of the elements of a successful one as to how you get to that. Again, the diversity plays a big role in regards to it and if you don't have the inclusive processes you won't get to where you need to be and I really do feel that inclusive is the next step if you need to take in regards to diversity.  We're watching that happen right now with codes of conduct. You know, I got to watch that front most in regards to Drupal. You know, you really want to be there and help take care of those types of issues.  So there's a bunch of different wins that happen there's some of the different ones that you automatically get when you have diversity and you do and you have the inclusion processes for that. So without doing the inclusive ones your diversity will go away. If you don't include people and listen to them you'll lose the different things. The ones that I'd like to highlight for us and most especially tools and governance.  That is not inclusive. That's not inclusive to handicapped people that's not inclusive to all the different diverse roles that you have.  You'll have an accountant once you're dead. You can't do that with governance either. There has to be governance I know that we're working on an open source governance standard but what that is is it's about shoulds because governance reflects your culture and if you don't create governance from that inclusionary process you're going to have problems. And to be quite honest if you're not inclusive are you really open? Are you really embodying that whole thing that we've been trying to work for for so long in the past three decades? I would say philosophically you're probably not. And then once you get there and you have all of this then you have your resilience the sustainability that we're all really here trying to achieve is by going in there and doing that then you'll have all of those processes you'll have the marketing you need you'll have the ability to bring in a community and keep people there because they love it and they want to keep doing what they're doing you'll be able to get the funding that you need you'll have all of those different pieces if you go through and address those parts And then of course the other thing is is then you get the safety security maturity but one other major element is looking at the diverse governance if you don't have inclusive leadership you're going to have problems what does your steering committee look like? If it's all just corporate representation you're not going to have it you have to make sure like your users are in there you have to make sure your developers are in there you've got to make sure that those people all come from different walks of life and then you'll have much better governance and they're all doing the same thing you know, look at chat GPT you can tell that it was read by a bunch of dudes it sounds like an overconfident 25 year old white male intern you know, diversify people come on, you can do it you know, one thing that I like to sit there and see is do you have relationships with other non-profits who represent some of these different groups of people if you do, then you're going to get to where you need to be you want a diverse sponsorship you don't want to go for just one company giving you all the monies it's very problematic it's not going to do well and then what happens when that one business leaves you will not be sustainable and also try to think of other revenue streams you know, with IEEE we have membership that's a great way to do it it's not always accessible to everyone but you can do sliding scale there's a lot of other different things that you can do you can figure out other ways of making money you can do certifications, you can do all of these other different things look towards that as well don't stay just in regards to expecting sponsorship from other corporations it's not a healthy place to be because then you will always be the goal to them and if you incorporate all of these different things it's a lot I know but then I believe that you will truly obtain sustainability and we'll be able to grow if you think so and thank you here's some of the links to some of the studies I'll give you a copy of the slides I'll send them to you and thank you so much for having me I really have enjoyed being here in Singapore the food has been amazing and I can't wait to go to the mechanical garden store so yes thank you at all can we have time for questions? oh yes I'm just wondering whether it's useful to expand your sustainability portion by adding a word in front of it which means evolutionary sustainability or evolvable sustainability evolvable sustainability I think it does underscore those challenges it does underscore those challenges because you can be sustainable at a lot of different levels we don't all have to grow the BCNCF we can be sustainable on these other different levels if we address some of those properly sometimes some projects might be too small that they do need to come under an umbrella like Apache and Eclipse and Linux Foundation and we're also trying to do that at IEEE but I do believe that a lot of these groups should be able to do it independently and be able to evolve from one size up to the other where you should be able to be sustainable with a smaller group so that's one thing that we're trying to figure out right now is how do we assist that to the things that governments are also trying to address I'm constantly having conversations with governments their standards bodies and global nonprofits because they want to invest money into open source but they don't always know how to go about doing that correctly like right now I had a big conversation about procurement how are one of us supposed to go and get procurement money Biden just said all of these millions of dollars supposed to be spent on open source and I'm like yeah and what's your procurement path are we going to be doing are we going to apply for NSF grants because I think I'll kill myself first again before I have to do one of those but you know it's not a sustainable thing and so we do have to look forward in regards to how do we evolve to do that level of sustainability so anything else yes if you're making it true if you have a diverse world how can you effectively get there to make decisions so it was a question about governance and how do you handle the global impact in regards to governance when you have barriers like time zones and languages and even cultural ones how do you actually deal with that right now I am sad that I feel like the majority of tooling has abandoned us in regards to that and it ends up being a very controversial topic in regards to how standards and consensus is done across the world everybody has their own little flavor in regards to how to go through and do that and what is the right one I don't think that there is always a defined answer in regards to that I think it is one of those things where you do have to always be active listening in regards to that and figuring out the different ways to go and include that when I was at Hyperledger one of the ways that we did that is and this isn't always my ideal way of doing it is I put everybody on consulates so that at least we could have multi-language support at least all of the working groups could always post their meeting minutes and their findings and their studies and all that kind of stuff and then everybody could translate it so that we could work together better with one another to figure those different things out and that way when the steering committees were making their decisions and judgment calls they could look at that compendium of evidence and go oh this is where these things are at this is what's actually going on and what's happening here and so I think one key element is probably the centralization and understanding the asynchronous aspects and then also the localization portions I think are going to be key and crucial I'm hoping that open source can come together to try to create some of that that's one reason why I'm so excited to be a part of the foundation for public code because that's some of the different discussions that were happening and I think that that is happening on a global level right now among all those different groups especially with the work that we're doing trying to incorporate open source and open data and open hardware into standards suddenly everyone's realizing oh how does that governance and consensus process work and we're definitely going oh well how about here, well how about over here can we do this so yeah it's definitely not a solve problem but I think it's one of those things where working together we can hopefully get there of course I might be building the tower fable I don't know thank you this is going to do IEEE standards available at no cost yes it's true they're not available at no cost one of the things that we've been working on is trying to figure out with certain standards how can we make them free and open open source and open standards are not the same thing they're not they're very different things they evolve in very different ways the open standards means basically everyone is open to participate in them and so they can have this diversity of voices that they need but right now we're looking at some different models because like for the OSS PG how are we going to make sure that that's free afterwards were any of the other different open source standards that we're doing how do we make sure that that is and we're working on some different revenue streams to make sure that it's sustainable because with IEEE it is a 501c3 it is member driven but we want to make sure that we don't accidentally you know cut up our legs while we're doing the different aspects of it so we are working on some of those different ones and I hope to be able to like publicize some of them in the next year yes yeah the 7000 series is available so the way that I understood it is we got sponsorship for doing that for the 7000 series but it's actually a little bit awkward right now because I kind of got chest eyes by Kalea over IIW because she's like it's not free and I was like well it is free the problem is if you went through explore it wasn't obviously free you have to go through the websites and then it's free on the website and one of the reasons we did that is because of the sponsorship pieces right so you can go through there and get them for free so that's one of the things that we're trying to like logistically figure out right now is how do we actually go through and do that to make sure that it is all sustainable you know because we do spend a lot of money doing support and doing all these other different technical aspects for them because we don't want to accidentally eat ourselves right we want to sit there and make sure that we're consistently there because we are not profit making that's not what we're here for and so that's a that's a very big deal to us thanks everyone thank you for coming we'll start with computers look at us acting like we know what we're doing I was going to start with the caveat that is when I first submitted this talk I thought that I was going to have 45 minutes clearly that is inaccurate because I can't read the screen so we're going to run through essentially the very beginning of what I wanted to talk about and we will definitely have questions and I'm around for all kinds of conversations throughout today and even tomorrow so let's run through it we're not going to have much time for fluff like I said but this is me I've been around to have fun some stuff if you have questions about that that's easier to talk about not here but we're just going to jump into it I also think I'm really funny I hope it's okay things that we're going to kind of talk about which is a little bit muddy in the spaces where we operate is the definition of open source if you're here you probably know this the definition of open source comes from the OSI we've seen it essentially it says if you are releasing code on a license that allows reproduction redistribution for free that generally that's an open source license if you want to go look at them and spend many days with many cups of coffee like I did, link at the bottom of the slide will show you all of the OSI it's very fun it's a lot of time be prepared for that but like I said, if you're here you're already familiar with open source you know open source is a great way for new developers to get real-world coding experience real-world collaboration experience it's a great way for people who have been around for a while like me to get back to a community that you've gotten so much from it's a really great thing but there's always this kind of like uncomfortable spot that you end up with when entering a new open source community if to be clear I'm going to assume that once you get to the spot that I'm talking about, you've already done all of the initial work you've decided where you want to work you've decided what you want to look at what languages you want to work on you've decided what your goals are when you contribute to open source you've identified your strengths and weaknesses all that kind of stuff you've already gone through you're evaluating projects evaluating where you want to put your time your investment if you haven't, go find a guide it's very simple this is one that I found that was generally when I skimmed it, it's pretty comprehensive it's a great place to start you can also find these slides later if you want to take pictures you can but there are millions of guides go pick some the thing that none of those slides or none of those guides seem to address is money as much as we don't like to talk about money in open source you can't do open source without money it's not possible even if you are a one person shop doing a project that you care about you are investing your time and no matter how much you make it work your time is worth money don't devalue yourself right? this open source code this open source definition also doesn't talk about money there's no mention of how these things get funded in whether or not it's defined as open source right? so I thought with myself a whole bunch about how I was going to break this down but I ended up in this spot the first thing we're going to do is exclude all of these single contributor single funding like you and your buddies got together and made this thing projects because we're talking about bigger communities that have real money behind them and they're going to be broken down into either corporate backed or foundation backed or corporate backed we're talking about things like automatic and genetics like red hats there are many companies that have successfully monetized an open source project or in whatever way it happens there was a project that has now become a product and these companies make a lot of money and sustain an actual very big business next to an open source project we're talking about foundation backed that can be broken down into two groups like about just 10 minutes ago these are these big foundations that become homes for a lot of very small projects or very big projects for that matter the Linux foundation, the Eclipse foundation the Apache foundation there's all kinds of each of these places have you know hundreds if not thousands of projects that they're providing cover for whether that's legal stuff or just a marketing machine like that these are very real problems that can't be solved when you're on your own independent thing that require money and these foundations go out and do the fundraising for you and then offer you a home for that stuff the other option is a single project foundation single product or single project foundations that you're probably very familiar with well at least two of them are the Rust foundation the GNOME foundation I wouldn't get away with not adding a plug for my foundation we are all backing one specific project that might be a couple of other small things in there but our focus is one thing where we have funding coming from sponsors and that money goes directly into our primary project I'm going to pause here because I want to make very very clear I am not making a judgment call I can't tell you one is better than the other there are different motivations and that's what we're going to talk about there's no right or wrong way for you to walk into a room at the site where you want to put your time I'm not going to make that call for you I might have opinions but I'm not going to tell you which way you have to do it but if we're looking at this situation the motivations are where we have to decide if you walk into a project that you say say you're using Chef say you are extremely excited about Chef you love it you want to fix the bug or contribute a feature and then you get to watch that feature yet you isn't adopted by other people you're going to get the same amount of satisfaction as you would whether or not Chef was a product being sold somewhere it's still open source it's still participation in the same way you still get to be excited about it it is very likely that you're going to encounter a situation where you want a feature and say you don't have the time to put into it at that time or you need help from the company that is backing it the company is going to have to bail in customer requests with open source community requests that is the thing that they have to put together if their customers are asking for something that is counter to what you want the money is going to come into play I'm not going to say it always wins but it's definitely going to come into play for them so that's the thing when you walk into a situation you have to understand the situation and then with the single project foundations, same thing that's fairly even in this case fairly secure funding the money is there but you can be fairly sure that what they're doing is what the community wants them to do it's going to be things that are asked for by the community very unlikely especially if they have diverse funding they're not going to be focused on any one thing that needs to be provided multi project foundations especially the massive ones the communities are going to be doing whatever they want with very little oversight from the foundation but that's again it's all about participation and how people contribute in the way that they want to occasionally when you walk into a small project it looks a little bit chaotic you're going to walk in and want to say I have this great idea I have this thing that I would like to give you and the floor is going to be on fire and it's going to be it's going to feel a little uncomfortable that is not necessarily an indication that everything's terrible it is very real when you bring a bunch of people together with different ideas about what they want to do and different amounts of time and different amounts of commitment that they can provide to a project that things are going to progress at different speeds things are going to get prioritized and deep prioritized very quickly depending on who can be there at that time sometimes the floor will be on fire not really, not really on fire not actual talking about fire but you do have to recognize that in open source I'm sure we've all experienced it no matter where the funding is coming from there's going to be a situation where you have motivations that you are walking in with that aren't always it's not always the right time for those motivations so you have to keep that in mind back here we all have goals around open source right I'm going to do this one quick we all have goals we all have things that we want to provide we all are going to walk into every situation with an idea about how good or not good the project that you're working on is where that funding comes from is part of what you need to consider about what you're investing in your time is your investment the one thing that I can always give you that it comes from a good friend of mine and I think that he got it from somewhere else but it's always follow the money if you are concerned at all it's fairly easy to look at who's sponsoring and then figure out just think about why they might be investing if they're there for whatever reason right and in almost every project there's somebody that you can go to and say how much of money are they giving you and why and I'm that person I can talk to you about why each of our sponsors are there there's always somebody I can talk to and why they're there and it gets to help you weigh projects against each other in where you put your time I was going to go into a whole bunch more but here's my 20 minutes so what questions do we have so we talk about the money following the money so I work for a company and one of our products we use an open source project right and working on projects relatively small there's a feature that we need to be implemented in some open source project and so the debate was like do we implement an upstream it but we don't have people to do it but what we do have is money and so we paid this project to build this feature for them which I think is still a good way to support an open source project but I did wonder is that unfair to the rest of the community who is contributing and trying to steer the direction of the project and then like is us showing up with money and saying we really want this feature for something that we're building is that unfair to the rest of the community in some way is that unfairness balanced out by the value we're giving to that organization in the form of money to support the project that's a really good question because to repeat for the people that are not in the room that question is if I as a company walk into an open source project with a feature that I need and want to pay the projects or am I unfairly tipping the scales in my favor because I have money to give to it and I'm obviously leading the community at that point my opinion is it depends on the situation the projects that have a relatively small amount of people actively contributing will welcome that kind of investment because ultimately if you're going to get invested like that then you're going to be able to over a long longer term you're going to bring more people into the project absolutely if there is a situation where there are bunches of people contributing to the project and the community is actively against what you're asking for or avoiding it for some reason say you want to you want to add tracking to some kind of software or something like you want to you want to start harvesting data like that's the kind of stuff that would get very sketchy to me if you walk in with good faith and are open about it then I think that that's okay one of the best ways to approach that if anybody else ends up in that situation would be to whatever way the project takes feature requests put in a feature request in a very public way and say this is what we want to do can we pay you to do it we will respond there is no shortage of opinions on the internet we'll make it happen does that answer your question that is how we came to be sponsoring the project we showed up in their community just for a channel like hey we take the project but here's a feature that you really need to know and then they had over the discussion yeah that's the exact right way to do it that's why I said very intentionally money is not the problem it is a person like it is one thing that you have to weigh in everything else that's going on go ahead which is kind of an item that does open source have a different kind of model is that you know there are there are some organizations that have some things like it there's a open collective that allows you if they're there then you can donate their github sponsors exist there's also this place that I just read about yesterday today again it's called thanks.dev or something like that they're attempting to make it so that you give them access to your github repo and then they go through your tree find all of the dependencies and you give them your budget and they say this is where you should give all of your money if you have to have $5,000 it'll go through your tree and say these are the projects that should get your money and this is how much they should get and like that's a how they're evaluating that is a whole other conversation but it's it's certainly there are definitely ways that you can give money to them in a more regular basis open collective is my favorite because then you can also give it to like organizations if you don't know open collective allows people to join their organization and kind of be sheltered as a nonprofit without having to go through the process of filing as a nonprofit it's a really cool it's a really cool thing who else has questions I answered all of your questions I'm the best ever in 20 minutes thank you we've got 5 minutes so the next person can set up perfect and we are talking about those projects and legal issues around so most of the things which I am going to talk about you might have looked at it in some way or the other sometimes you may not have even attention to the whole issue but let's look at it from a different perspective and see how what are the risks when you open source projects generally face and how you can mitigate those risks and what are the community way of looking at the risks and the issues which we face in the open source projects and what are the global best practices when we look at some of the risks and some of the legal issues and how we can avoid all those issues so when we talk about the legal issues so first of all let me say this is not a legal advice this is an educational approach it's not because the laws across the globe is different the corporate law in US and India or Singapore might differ so it is not a legal advice but I will be trying to make the attempt to talk about the best practices globally so let's look at copyright issues trademark issues and paid issues so as you have seen most of these things you would have noticed might not have paid attention to but so let's start from copyright so what is a copyright basically generally for software the protection is generally in most of the decisions is through copyright so is an exclusive legal right to control the rules for copying modifying and distributing a copyright and who could be a copyright owner you could be an individual you could be a foundation and trust in your own and typically you would have seen this is an example of a copyright notice copyright at the right seat and here you have done that you are a foundation you should put your foundation's name if you are an individual you should put your individual's name if you are a company you should put your company's name so that gives an idea to somebody who is looking at that or who is looking at that or whatever you have done that this has been done by this gentleman or this foundation or this individual and all the rights for modification for distribution you should check with and under what license that we will talk about later so this is the indication which gives you like okay the person or the foundation of the trust I should talk for anything I have to do with and typically like in India the copyright extends to 60 years the lifetime of the author plus 60 years it varies in different jurisdictions but broadly it is a long drawn protection so when we look at open source projects it is for you would find that there is a copyright notice so that provides the information of the rights of the owner of the users so you might be the owner you might be the user and what are the rights typically would be understood from the copyright notice so copyright notice and then the license information to most important legal information which I look in for any open source project if it is not there then there is something because the downstream users will not able to understand what are his rights so there are good chances that he or she may not be using your project at all because most of this information is like so you would also look at different projects have different ways of protecting the copyright so the contributors license agreement is one way of protecting your copyright information and the developer certificate of origin is another important legal agreement which protects the rights now let's move on to the trademark issues so what is a trademark the trademark is a trademark so whether it is goods or services there is a trademark so and there is an inferred source origin and quality let's say when we say apache there is quality we know there is community working behind it so what this helps in is to create confusion so later in the session I will be talking about in what are the instances we have seen confusion so the trademark owners have the obligation to protect their mark it is not the users users have to comply with the trademark obligation so open source projects needs to have trademark and also take trademark policy so the way you write let's say apache foundation the way the trademark policy will tell you the way apache foundation should return and how you can use it in what instances so as I told you it avoids confusion it gives you a source of origin, quality and all those things about so this one for another every open source project irrespective of the region you are in so one example good example was the Debian and the Mozilla foundation issues around the Firefox trademark issue which started in 2006 and ended in February 2016 so for 10 years this issue was going on so it's always better when you are having starting a new project please make sure that you have a proper trademark assigned and you have a trademark policy so everybody is using that project knows that this is the way this has to be done that should be illustrated in your website in your trademark policy the other famous instance was when Amazon was sued by elastic search so there are so many instances across the globe where companies projects have issues so please safeguard your trademark and have a trademark policy and the best projects across the globe has good trademark and trademark policy and please search that such names are not used already the other example is the Java trademark which is owned by Oracle but Eclipse foundation used to use it for a long time there was a lot of conversation around this and finally they had to give up so unable to convince the Oracle to allow the users of the trademark term to refer to the open source version of the Java enterprise edition Eclipse foundation is asking those who pair up websites to vote so it's a nice situation after using that name it's like somebody tells me you can't use the name with you after 50 years so it is quite difficult and there is a lot of cost if somebody has to change the project name there is a lot of confusion it creates so it's better at the start of the project itself to think about the project name trademark copyright and all these issues don't put it to a later instance where there is a lot of cost there is not even there is a lot of confusion so it is the interest of the trademark holder so let's say I have got a trademark for my project open source project I have got the obligation of my interest to safeguard that if somebody is misusing my trademark I should enforce my trademark against them and stop should not allow them to use that trademark because they are deriving so there will be confusion people will think that this is done by Apache foundation let's say if Apache foundation doesn't enforce their trademark then people will see that this originated from Apache foundation project and there could be some cybersecurity instance or threats or malware in those projects because when I use those projects I thought that it is from Apache foundation but it may not be so it's very important that you protect if you are a trademark holder you are the foundation of the trust you should protect and enforce your trademark now let's look into the patents aspect so if you see the preamble of GPL it stays finally any program is threatened constantly by software patents we wish to avoid the danger that redistributors of a free program will individually obtain patent license in effect making the program proprietary to provide this we made it clear that any patent must be used or not now let's look into Apache 2.0 okay so our 6th grant of patent license subject to the terms and conditions of this license each contributor hereby grants to you a perpetual worldwide non-exclusive, no charge, royalty free removable, etc. stated in this section patent license to make I have made use, offer to self import and otherwise transfer the work where such license applies only to those patent claims licensable by such contributor that necessarily influenced by the contributors alone or by combination of their contribution with the work to which such contribution was submitted so basically the whole free software community doesn't believe in software patent most of it that doesn't stop the patent pros or operating entities so the whole open source projects has been threatened at various instances by two types of entity earlier an operating entity when I say the word operating entity operating entities are entities which have products and services and then there is another type of entity which is called non-practicing entities non-practicing entities are entities which justify patents and they don't have any products or services then they start asserting various entities across the globe so in the recent past Gino foundation was sued so and one of the main reasons why open source foundations are a good target for for fundamental reasons that globally this projects are used and in a typical scenario in a corporate scenario when one entity is sued they have a patent portfolio which they can retaliate using that but in an open source foundation because open source foundation don't file for patents generally they don't have the transparency so it is very important that open source foundations think of defensive strategies because they don't have patents and they don't file for patents so they can't have an offensive strategy so the only way they can look at it is having a defensive strategy how as a community we can come together and protect the community so in 2019 Gino foundation was sued by a pick and troll called as Rothschild so when Gino foundation was sued they joined the community that is open invention of the community what we did was we gave them priority using that priority they went for crowdfunding because patent litigation and defense is very costly affair so what did they then went for invalidation of this patent of Rothschild which is Rothschild allows that Gino foundation been sued and that's the patent number and once the invalidation proceedings started against Rothschild Rothschild withdrew the case gave license to all the patents which they had and this is a statement from Rothschild a piece to announce that the patent dispute between Rothschild patent imaging and Gino have been settled and this had managed to settle this issue amicably I have always supported innovation of open source software and its developers and encourage its innovation and adoption so in the first instance they sued an open source foundation and later on they made this statement and the best part what happened after this was using after the settlement using the prior app with open invention effort gave somebody went and invalidated the patent of Rothschild so that is the final conclusion this happened so it is very important that the community comes together have a defensive strategy so one of the biggest community in the defensive strategy is open invention at home I am part of open invention network I represent the entire union so what we do at open invention network is it is the largest community in the world anybody can join you are a project, you are a startup, you are a company you are an individual developer anybody can join the community this was initiated 16 years back and today we have companies, startups and projects even Linux foundation is part of the project community anybody can join they join through an e-license the only obligation you have is that in case you have an annual platform you will not assert it against any other community member and other community members also have the same principle of reflection and wherever you are in the world you can be part of the community there is no commercial to join the community and so we have a cross license of 2.1 million product patents so this ranges from 3,885 software applications and some of the protections we provide so you can see the community members who are part of OIM open source projects globally not much time not much time they will be happy to now join us they will now join us so the only people who don't join OIM is people who have an intent to be a patent group who want to assert so if you see from the composition of the 3,885 software applications it looks something like this so almost all areas of technology is covered open source technology is covered so at various times in the past it was operating entities which behaved like patent rules and it is not just operating entities it is non-typing entities which are creating work in the whole ecosystem so there are various other entities which work on the defensive strategies so open invention is the largest among them so now let's move on to the open source so this has various problems because in the whole supply chain of software how do you ensure open source compliance let's say you have vendors across the globe or you have contributors across the globe how do you ensure that each of them are following the same set of rules and ensuring that the level of education compliance is the same so there is a Linux foundation project called as Open Chain Open Chain the alternative of Open Source Open Chain is to ensure that in the whole supply chain of software there should be compliance let's take a scenario where you have people contributing from agnostic groups how do we put a standard that okay this is the benchmark because my understanding might be different my friends understanding who is contributing from a different region in the world might be different how do we have the basic common platform so that is taken care by Open Chain so Open Chain 2.1 specification has now become the ISO standard so you can do a self-certification you can get a third party certification and in fact there is a security specification which is so in drama and so all those issues related to license security around open source compliance because typically globally this is one of the biggest problems like open source compliance that's the objective of this community and we have seen that most of the companies globally are gearing and adopting Open Chain as the standard whether you are in telecom, whether in the sector you are and that helps to mitigate and the contribution is not just from one region in the world the good part is that companies, individuals across the globe, across various domains are contributing to this project and as we all know that the documentation, license compliance these are the issues which most of the companies projects face so Open Chain would be a good answer to all those problems and solutions and I would be happy if you could look into Open Chain 2.1 our specifications there I am also looking forward for the security specifications and you would have seen globally there is a lot of security challenges which open space has faced in the last 10 years which also has in certain cases affected the credibility in certain cases so communities like Open Chain would be a great bet so I would have to buy it more I think if you have any questions about some, I am bearing a few things but in years currently yeah, so if you see globally in US there is this Alice judgment but what happens to existing patents which has already been landed and sometimes it is very difficult to decide between the software patents and if it is not just the software patents because the patent authority there in each region has different standards so in US of course the Alice judgment software patents are not allowed but there has been various instances where software patents has been allowed so in Europe patent process is not allowed but if it isn't for terms of the ROL so that differentiation is very difficult so somebody has to scrutinize each software application and the rules of the game is different in different parts of the world so maybe in New Zealand there are software patents even in India software process cannot be patented but we have CRI guidelines so if you can pass that guidelines you get a patent so the rules of the game is different so I don't think in the near future you will see software not being landed patents Open Chain has not been to think what Open Chain does today is prescribes you to the best standard for example for a project you should have open source policy so it also includes that you train your team that what is the best practices you review confirm the license requirements you train them make them understand because generally license information obligations are left out by people so whether it is there is a modification of this all those things has to be looked into and then only you can be confirm with Open Chain so there is 1.1 specification 1.1 1.1, 2 and 2.1 so only if you are confirm with 2.1 that is equivalent to ISO standard so training, compliance audit, review so all these processes at least makes some level of compliance so whether it is open time tpt or anything these rules of the game are same so training compliance and enforcement it doesn't matter if they use it the rules of the games are same license compliance is required so how do we get the buy in how do we justify the impact because we can't bring them the numbers and say well these are the people that are going to use this especially the team now we go and convince them that this is not enough to prove thank you yeah so one of the things when business part of it comes is where the standard comes so that all this helps we have to comply with it at one point why not but then again I feel like a progressive enhancement is a good approach because then you are like wasting a separate time this is how we are supposed to build so it's not like I have made a product and now I need to spend some time to make it accessible no this is how we are making the product we are making it with progressive enhancement so this is what it is this is how much time we take this is what we have to do probably how you should approach and you should also show that accessibility really helps everyone it also helps in their SEO business so if you are like forget everything at least your SEO will be better but also you can show them that see you might be thinking that our user base doesn't have anyone why there is no user doesn't have standard because probably it's not accessible so there is an entire market that you are not going to argue because there are a lot of users as someone who is building websites and logs take care of like I am using a tool called Quador so I am not interacting with HTML kind of stuff so how can I start making websites accessible so if you are making using some static site generators basically like taking or whatever you are using probably the first is if you are using a theme then it's good idea to search for an accessible tool now if you are not supported that's really sad this is where now you have to involve whatever because all the static site generators still have a tab it shows the content so you need to overwrite the theme that you are using like use the CSS probably but try to steal the original so that it already becomes a much better structure one more Thank you just one thing to add on as a designer I think there is also one thing we also must think about when you design an app or a website there are users watching you using different device sizes there are users who are using different phone sizes like my dad he actually have to scale all the phones really deep to read exactly that's one of those little things so do you think that is also hard to access in design it's supposed to be just a fundamental issue in any website any app so yeah I really should be asking I wouldn't go as far as localization should also be part of that there can be different languages you can if your website just breaks when you are lagging switch to a different language or even when you are translating again those things all come to html the html tab itself has a lag attribute which almost no one uses so it's very important to those kinds of things even for a contract in India there are many users who use the internet but this is an answer because you have to use the html tab so yes accessibility is all different it's the idea is to make it easy I had a talk to the people it's not easy it's actually really open and I really love that it's easy welcome back next up we have a senior DevOps engineer Guptik thank you glad to be here today I'll be talking about open source accessibility testing with the tool that my team at Guptik is building for local hats before I do that myself can you guys hear me we are reminded that accessibility yes you should be making a microphone right thank you so a bit about myself I mean let's introduce senior DevOps engineer at Guptik myself I've been working with computer since I was primary school and I had a visual impairment and one of the reasons why I'm working with accessibility so that I hope that our services that we build can be more more inclusive and accessible that always happens my favorite topics include DevOps DevOps quality engineering recently accessibility testing on one type of topics I do talk about inclusive employment especially employment accessibility of persons with disabilities so actually the last speaker probably talked about accessibility testing regardless accessibility testing firstly accessibility testing as previous speaker mentioned and you know it's about making testing to ensure that your websites and mobile apps are friendly towards PWDs and one form of accessibility testing is this thing called automated accessibility testing automated accessibility testing aims to help it's a kind of software testing to help you uncover and ensure that applications that develop are accessible to PWDs and for common types of disabilities include color-blinders and those who are vision impaired so probably a vision impaired they're using such a screen reader as well as a keyboard and these PWDs use these assistive tech tools not just to access the web and use the mobile apps and these services today that we roll out chances are they're not if you don't test for these people they are not accessible what my team and I are working on is to create accessibility testing two proper hacks that aims to help you crawl through at least the entire website very quickly right five minutes at a time install proper hacks, try it out crawl the entire website are you better yet right if you want to make sure your websites especially like new websites continuously tested you can use accessibility testing as well in CI CD and some of the benefits now, automated testing actually helps you to make part of your optional requirements if it's not already so and today you can use automated testing to help catch accessibility testing issues early with that and of course you can categorize accessibility testing issues such as color contrast issues things such as improper fittings or lack of fittings and you can no catch all these recurrent issues and categorize them what we support is the console app as well as the interpreter for those who run it, you can say you're GitHub, make it lab and we're actually trying to shift a bit more towards the user side the designers everyday users who are developing a desktop version of it as well so much about what these two can do but why, how can verbal heads really help they're just two so I'll give you this scenario when a person who is working on your app is not able to understand things such as your shopping cart your shopping cart resource is button or your checkout screen is not intelligible to the stream reader doesn't read out what exactly your line items are correctly and what happens to that well verbal heads can then scan if you have done proper accessibility testing with verbal heads, you could find that actually some of these code issues are already flagged out like the button should have been labelled properly or your text should have proper headings and you can actually pick up some of these issues and hopefully with the two you can actually categorize them by WCAG so WCAG is the web content accessibility guideline there's a lot to unpack in Google it and you've realized that there's a lot of different standards different standards out there but WCAG one helps you unpack accessibility issues in different categories of issues and you can find out what exact issue the user might be facing with their basic website and with that one of the selling points of verbal heads is you can scan it across pages Google Lighthouse is great but you can only use it on one page every time you use or you search a page on the next screen verbal heads can help you do that and I'll show you how you can do that even for websites that require interactive access and you need to sign in and with that I hope that people will pick it up and then plan it in their all the issues flagged up and plan it as a security roadmap so the textile is a GPOLE open source we use various methods of crawling as well as playwrights to help automate the workflow of scanning accessibility crawling and playwrights for automating or writing your tests if you are a functional tester or quality engineer you know that you can quickly record tests and then using the same tools out there and for the reporting site we use the accessibility scan and the report we use as core and most such is the report that we use to help us generate that report and for the core environment you can run it across this running on node and you can run it on GitHub as well as talk some of the features briefly alluded you can crawl a website for accessibility issues you can then scan the pages either as a website, you can enter a URL or you can provide a sitemap if you are a news website or you have a sitemap you can have a scan of all of them and lastly the fun part you can record your own flow with our custom flow feature all of that will be reported through using score and up to W3CW stages to cut lines so this is an example of the console app all you do is just once you install it you just run the node application just hold index give you a series of prompts for the user to understand what they want to do and do a crawl and then type in your URL and you can scan whether you want to scan it in desktop or mobile and you can start scanning your website you can scan about 100 pages depending on your laptop or period then you get a very brief report like what is the accessibility what kind of accessibility issues are there according to the score engine like whether it is critical serious, mobile etc and then you can download a report the report looks like this it tells you the website again how many issues are there or unique issues and exactly the html and issues tied to the html elements so it looks like that if I zoom in it gives you the the wcg clause as well as the description of the issue and then the page where you can click on the page to bring you back to where you were to find out where that issue is as well as the html element so you can do your highlight and inspect element if you need more help, you can just click on the shortcut there and it will bring you to help guide by DT University that lists out very comprehensively some issues about how you can approach it how you may fix it so for the people who are developing things like e-commerce sites things that are behind on the login screen you can use our custom flow feature that allows you to scan a website by recording a series of actions so this will allow you to scan websites where they are known in certain cases where you need to fill in a form first you need to submit then for some pages also there's a new website today this thing got a single page architecture where the URL hasn't changed so people can also handle that because we use image-based scanning to determine whether there's a lot which elements change on the screen so same thing you go to our console you select custom and choose the format of the scan in this case I choose the website that I want to scan and in a few moments time you open a browser it's not an ordinary browser, this is a chip by play that we use you can notice, you can highlight over elements and every time you interact with an element be it a mouse click or a keyboard type it will record a series of steps so say here I'm just searching for accessibility or graphics website hyperlink and here is a flow that I want to scan so I went through different pages I actually went through my form element notice that I have to click the search button before an element appear so that indicates there's new elements on the page and then what happens is someone has to then run, scan and repeat that series of actions for you and as it does it's actually scanning the entire page to come element for accessibility issues right so we have the same format of the report as we saw earlier so how can you start we have a simple application we go to our report tree just search for four heads probably one of the top page one of the research you can also scan this QR code for quick installation guide so one of the challenges for non-tech default is how do I install why is it not known, why is it package management tools so we have package a zip file that you can literally just download and double click a command or shelf with file and you will load the entire shelf for you so you can run the command line with everything it's got for you and of course lastly for those people who work in the software development team they want to bring the test scripts that you just recorded you have to bring the crawler into your dev environment your testing environment how can you do that we have, as mentioned we support Docker so we have a preview we have a Docker file which you can use to build an image and then you can just deploy it either in your favorite we have the same command line so that's about the tool that we are working on if you have any questions I will be around for how much time left for Q&A more about the work we do of PopaHack I'll scan the left Q&A code for PopaHack page and on the right you can look it up with me I'm wondering if there are codes for submitting to request if there is anything that can help you yes you are open too you will take a look at the PR and see what makes sense I want to check that I have a question does this make you say when you want to test you can have it as added you are working on a mobile device does that mean a PWA site will be exactly that scenario so you simulate a PWA site as well exactly so if I may show it on screen do I have to adjust the screen sharing so that the audience can see what's on screen I will go on ok done ok great so I'll just put the mic down here so say you have a PWA app you have a URL to the page you can expose the endpoint for it you can you can just enter the same thing and here you can choose mobile and if you use the CLI you can choose a lot more options like down to the view pod you want to test for the user agent that you want to test for I'll just give again the same website so this is actually running against a iPhone 11 user agent user agent and rendered yes you can so we have the entire list of user agents presented on the repo page so you can choose from there as well this is how fast it all works very much you need to be off 10 minutes are you out I have the camera very sharp very much you don't have 15 minutes so thank you don't thank you you can give us the answer for question and answers 30 minutes how much is that right 15 13 13 okay good afternoon today I will present actually the final answer and meet you guys and participate and contribute and give us feedback okay let me briefly introduce myself and who was in the event hall stage earlier in a web answer that you had a similar year for me okay that's perfectly introduced myself currently running three positions and three types the hat trick in which is ground up grassroots in China all volunteer non-profit virtual organization I think I asked in South Asia Singapore tell me is there any similar ground up association in Singapore so there are quite a few okay I need to get connected and the other one is other sort of foundation it was here the former member and also the future member also the community development PMC member and also I am the open source forest advisor in China and this is backed up by some enterprises and the government association to use that so with these companies and computer associates when I was in the states all the green one including the red one actually all involved open source or Linux business the red one I joined 2000 and then that was when I found model first like 500,000 shares and it still goes on my wall very nice never get listed so I went into too soft all failed so I decided the best was my community but the company I joined whichever I joined the industry rank after I joined you can see my destiny okay so my three body experiences born in educating Taiwan study abroad in the states I worked here for several years in the China for 22 years in Beijing and I moved back to Taiwan for a lot of three years because of COVID-19 my three body experiences I would not say too much but who read the three body problem okay thank you share share actually I have some people very nice stuff I can share with you also everybody can contact me and through my company position now today I wish to share this there is a YouTuber who is very famous with his 60,000 fans yeah this is one I have played it for a few seconds oh here it is and this guy is quite famous and he is thank you I have as a YouTube creator and he said his YouTube and being a creator is support on the videos that I make that's good you can find this guy in his last questions 33 minutes video and there was a tutorial and you watched this and learned how to not that before I answered check this out the answer is developed by one of the largest developer community in China we have a couple million developer subscribers but they are not the largest one of the largest they are very focused on open source technology recently they are acquired by a company called once yes because they encounter or engage with many developers each project they have the same problem and how to help developers to solve problems and questions so in October actually last year they developed an answer solution and launched it so it's a Q&A platform and they have members with questions and community participation that's about many experienced people who love to help to contribute, verify and upload information and that's the first one Q&A platform it's very easy to use and use tags to organize questions and help contain new two categories and now it's easy to find others and third one is integration it configures that they have your community with sub plugins and your various services and improve your workflow and your community so the last one use a communication approach also make it fun and easy to use keep it simple but smart still KISS right so this is one example many people fork their project and use for their own Q&A for their project and this is one time users they fork it or they install it on your site and without even the extra team knows it they actively participate in the development then the extra team knows this user they provide feedback to the project and they after that become part of the contribution team and so since they launched that October 24 1024 it's meaningful to many Chinese people it's called developer day in China so they launched that so this is October 24 last year and that allowed attention and stars people users and this is how that they localize or internationalize their product 15 languages and the percentage here shows that the percentage is being localized so for example Chinese of course 99% the answer to that project is English sucks from day one but it also translates into multiple languages you can see the internationalization of this purpose okay so they've been used since even though it's an English project it's still mostly used in China powered by the states in other regions I hope after this conference there are more South Asian people the project community can use it after okay you can check this answer.gov on github and check we have released that we released frequent quickly for a very short period of time and this is your roadmap okay so you can see that they receive the feedback from the users you can cover you through your roadmap if you can ask if I bring them in lately that the plug-ins of course will catch you into the area but I believe and I personally believe that the check community will not be placed people in interaction when you ask a tough guru answers something that a novice user they ask simple questions they probably cannot be a cookie cutter that everybody can give the same answer like check to me check to you guys I think this will be helpful for this Q&A community check to be key plug-in will be included so this is actually my last slide yeah a quick video to show how easy it is to install and use people sitting back you can see that it's very easy pretty much out of time anyway for a minute I'm putting it in Q&A so I have language and database it's actually four or five steps you can set it up nice yeah just go forward sir actually not too technical question to ask because it's so simple and you want to ask any features just give feedback and join their contribution thank you good afternoon welcome to the final session today hello I'm Jan from next job and also from open source design so with this talk I'm just combining two of the projects that I'm working on I also have stickers later if you want to get some yeah gotta keep the sticker economy going so in this talk I'm gonna show you five strategies by no means all but five strategies that we're applying at the next job for open source design so first if you don't you can have a show of hands who knows what the next job is most people will explain it of course so next job essentially is a full suite of tools for keeping your data private so we have file syncing and sharing with calendars, contacts video call, chat what sorts of things we have an office suite which is a bit of a collaborator we brought this online and we also have a bunch of AI integration which is on premise so you get the benefit of AI but on your own on the server end it's kinda cool so if you want to connect all you have to say but yeah let me show you what we came here for so first strategy is structure so this is essentially the least you can do where you can start if you are an engineer developer or someone with a project or if you're not a developer if you're someone within an open source project then the basic thing you can do is give visibility to design and also to ensure that there is a place for designers that they have when they come that they know where to continue or what to do and I will show you some examples so one thing that we do the first thing that we do and what I always recommend to projects is that you have an issue tag called design some projects called UX slash UI or whatever some people have different tags we just keep it simple in our project just call it design so just one design tag it's across the repositories and that's where you find the design issues that's where we open the issues that's where other designers can find the issues and that's where you can get started also for example you can of course combine it with different other issue tags like the first issue that you might be aware of which is an issue tag that you could just get started so if you combine design and good first issue you get good design and first issues so that's pretty cool and that is a really simple thing you can do in your project so if you don't do that right now do it first thing to do it's going to get harder now but with the simplest one so next one is grouping design and this can be done in any sort of way this is one way we're doing as I said next slide is this whole suite of applications one thing that we have is a desktop talk this is our chat and video call software and here we have a conversation called design team public on our own instance this one as it says it's public you can also join you can go there from nextslot.com and this is a place where we group designs where you can join as a designer we're also a lot of developers hang out so people exchange information and just talk about design so you don't have to be a designer to be in this group and there's of course other places as well where you can group designers like on GitHub or on whichever issue tracking system you use you can have these groups like at nextslot slash designers so you can mention an entire group for review for example you can request a review from the designers so grouping people giving them a place to chat not only among themselves but also with others, with the engineers as something for example previously in this talk I said it's very important that design is not just a handover process but it's an iterative process especially in open source where there's traditionally very few designers has to be very collaborative then the third example is the last example it has specific pages this is our design page nextslot.com with a whole bunch of text and info a lot of people I'm talking about now which serves as sort of an entry point and then a more advanced thing this is probably more difficult if you don't have it yet but it's having design guidelines having components just saying this is the brand brand guideline, this is our logo these are our colors this is what we use wording guidelines is also something that is not very often used they're like being friendly or which type of capitalization you use or which kind of language you use language as in English or German or whatever but which kind of type of tone friendly, serious and so on it seems to have guidelines for that alright, so that's the first one having a structure the next one is having a process and making that process open so in this section we'll talk about specifications and mockups, how we do that and how we involve engineers and iterate we can come back to this it's a very iterative process and a very collaborative process and some examples for that as I said before we have labels here it's design label there's a whole bunch of other labels and this is a specification that is done where the developers are on GitHub now so this is for improvement to a sharing designer flow that I wrote you see the specification, first a bunch of text down here there's some mockups and then there's some more text so it's a place where developers work, it's on the issue tracker where we also do the design specification it's very important because then everyone gets involved and it's not a fixed thing then we're done with the mockups and then we throw it over the wall but it's like, it's a discussion yeah so specifications and issues that's a very important one next example is maybe you know the software, it's called Tempot it's basically an open source mockup tool and you can also use it actually to create slides Colleague Nymisha actually does her slides with it these slides were not done in LibreOffice but she does her slides with Tempot which is very cool so it's sort of an alternative to Figma or in Miro, it's quite boring tools and we use that for mockups and it's very cool, very useful open source, I can only really wholeheartedly recommend it and yeah we also do that in the open so we invite people who want to contribute and we also invite developers so yeah, because we are two full time designers on the team only, we have a lot of engineers but there's a whole bunch of people in this Tempot organization and you should be very liberal with inviting people because then people can stuff by themselves developers of Groupware for example can do mockups or any developer can talk about their own app, their own feature and then you can talk with them and do some modifications and that way you sort of teach designs well which is a very important thing next example so this was the last example for design process next strategy is research and especially in open source we don't have a lot of resources we're it's not a very small community but thankfully we're growing and we're big as you can see from the conference but designers in open source are still fewer so it's very important to use existing material and to also maximize the limited resources that you have and by that I mean you can just get inspired a lot I mean as everyone does as every project does you look at other projects, you look at what works a lot of projects, in closed source projects blog about their visibility tests or about their design research there's a lot to learn that is out there and you don't need to always start from zero so it's like that once again here for our next laptop app which you see in this column with a lot of nice green check marks because we have a bunch of cool features that others don't have and we did this gap analysis with other solutions like Microsoft Teams, Zoom we will meet back in Discord and we also did others of course but these are the main ones and we just did a simple overview and this gives us a feeling of like where are we missing things where are we positioned very well what do we need to look into because then we would just look for example the last one is the disposal of the meetings you see there's already an issue created for this we don't have an issue and then we would go to the other solutions look at how they do it there's like sort of a common thread that we can build on that we can sort of make it look very similar also to pick up people who are switching to an open source solution from a proprietary solution to make it not simple as a next example there's usability testing this is of course a bit more of an investment in this case this was done with a partner organization it's a usability agency open source design agency called Hula Design and they did usability testing for our forms app and this I think is a very cool display of results so basically you see it was done with five participants one participant per column and a bunch of tasks you see the first tasks were rather easy and then here chairing the form was an issue so you immediately see this is something you need to fix and so it shows you immediately as someone who is not involved with the project where the difficulties are which is also very important because you as a person who works on the project you tend to tend to not see the issues so usability testing is really a good tool and it doesn't have to be with five people it can be three people three people should be the minimum I would say but you should do it agencies do it with 12 people that's like you don't need that but just to show it to a few people who are not so technical a few people who don't know the project a few people at the conference for example and just see what they use it and then don't help out let them make mistakes because it's not their mistakes it's your software you already see that I could do a full talk about just usability testing but let me continue next thing is surveys it's a very quick tool to see also where you stand with your with issues, with features or anything of course this is more of a quantitative approach where you just get a lot of responses where usability testing is quantitative so you get one-on-one feedback this is a quantitative approach so you should spread it far and wide and you always need to be aware of a bias so if you if you tweet it from your project account maybe the people who are replying they already know your project well so you need to just keep that in mind but yeah you can also do that with next.forms we have a forms app which is open source Google forms and we periodically do surveys for next.app or Kanban board app or about next.forms itself just like here and this helps a bunch to just see where we stand and what we can improve and what people are expecting then yeah that was that with research we come to the fourth point community some of you so it's very important to get people excited about design and involve a wider community not just as I said before and not just the designers or the people who would identify themselves as designers but also the engineers because everyone sort of I mean you would think almost every engineer has something to say about design if you look at some open source communities so you should channel it into the right into the right avenues so let me give you some examples we have lists from out of just talking with people at our next conference in person and giving them design reviews we have a regular design review call every week it's at 2 p.m. or whatever it doesn't really matter except if you want to join, you're very welcome but we have a weekly regular review call for one hour so it's not that long short it's regular review call for anyone who wants their design review in the community it can be an app that an employee works on or a community member whatever but we have this open forum where also everyone can join whether designer, studied or whatever or an engineer or marketing person no background it's all cool everyone can give feedback on what's off or what's weird or not understandable so this is a very very cool tool and then we take notes during the calls and then put into issues then sort of a checklist directly a checklist for the developer what is very important is that this needs to come you need to involve the people the maintainers of the apps or the developers they need to come to you you can't just do this review open present and then give them the list this is a recipe for disaster essentially we're just very open we ask a lot we have to ask a lot again and again but when people come it's usually very helpful so that's my example I can really recommend it if you want to get involved also come join this course next example and this is a very current one you can actually participate this is something that we posted about yesterday because for our current x.hub 5 development cycle we're looking for you to design document templates so we have these I mean when you create a new file create a new document or presentation or or drawing document templates these are two templates that I actually designed kept it rather simple because creating templates is actually very difficult but maybe you have some cool templates maybe you have some nice ideas and you can submit them so this is a current community contribution effort you can go to next.com there's a post with more info on that it would be cool to have your designs submitted to them it's much like maybe you know from Google to the open source project I think there's a background for background it's called background photo submission process for the desktop background so in this case it's a document template that will be shipped with maximum so we have community involvement very important for a community and make people at the very least even if they don't join first you have a very cool template and they contribute it to an open source project in a very visible way and it's a very cool thing that they can show their friends and then maybe they can work next thing and this is the last strategy is collaboration because we're open source we're all here but I often see and I've seen through the years basically of working in open source but often times the projects are still very insular we often have this collaboration but more often than not it's sort of a very very I mean I don't want to say walled garden that has a certain connotation but you need to understand that you are not the only project there's a whole bunch of other projects out there that you can do cool collaborations with and there's of course also community developers which are not necessarily in your direct sphere of influence so let me show you some examples of what we do so for example with Collabra we will probably know they will give our office online and Collabra will partner it to create next cloud office this is basically built on collaboration online and we work very closely with them we will call every week to just manage and to see what we just have strategy and stuff and really helps us to integrate very very very closely so you have a very nicely integrated office suite directly inside next cloud and they also get a lot of feedback from our side and this is really a very cool partnership we have because we both have a limited amount of designers but every time we do this ping pong among us everything is very cool partnerships with other projects really really really good this is the first example next one is community developers we have our app store our next cloud app store we see community apps like forms that I mentioned before next cloud maps actually tasks in this case news reader like Google news that they shopped on a few years ago so these community developers also often come to our design team channel and ask if they can have a design review and then it's very useful for them because then we we do the review and we have a bunch of other people who are also engineers or developers from other apps and they say oh but in my app it's different or in my app we do it like that and that way even it gets like sort of consistent without the designers necessarily always having the funds on it it creates this exchange between the maintainers of the different apps as well so for example the different Android apps or the different iOS apps from next cloud they all exchange sort of they're like oh this is how you do it oh yeah we have this library and so on so this is very cool creating this flow of information between the teams as well then next example and second to last example I think is the GNOME online account so probably no GNOME the open source desktop we have this online accounts functionality which I think is super cool because this is also in Ubuntu actually immediately when you install it and you start it for the first time you see the screen you can add an account so of course they show what you see the sign on and then Google is popular but then they show next cloud so you can add your next cloud account directly when you install your system so this has been an effort I actually initially started out in the GNOME community sort of because they are very designed with the community thanks to the GNOME community I have to say because a lot of these and so this is already there since a long time it comes to partnership to talking with them and we are always trying to link up more apps so that they can be synced because like that you have a whole experience we need to we need to compete against the lights of Apple which sync everything you don't even need to think about and we have the moving parts we just need to talk to each other so this is another very cool thing just talk to projects that are relevant to you they do similar things just on a different platform on mobile and desktop or whatever and make it work last example last example I would say the open source design community as I mentioned that Samsung as well and me are involved in we are a loose collective of designers and developers as well cares about design and open source and wants to raise the profile of it you can join anyone of you can be part of it we are at opensourcedesign.net now you will find this page we also have a job award you can find job postings from open source companies about design roles you can post one if you need a design you can find a job we have a forum where you can get involved engage with a wider audience and come to a conference like this I don't need to tell you all that but yeah and that's that get involved at nexthelp.com or get involved with any open source project as a designer we need more designers in open source so come to Nexthel or come to open source design and get some stickers thank you thank you yeah are there any questions so should I give you the so you mentioned in strategy number 4 that you have a conference for every Tuesday at central european time yeah so that's why I said the time doesn't really matter like in our case unfortunately at central european time on Tuesday it's 2 yeah so it's exactly yeah so I was actually in Japan for one and a half months just it was 10 I think so I mean yeah I participated but it's a tough thing so what you could do is like depending on how your community is distributed like for example with open source design we have a monthly call and we have two we have one for like more european time zone african time zone and one for more asian sort of pacific time zone so you could do that for example yeah it's unfortunately time zones I think and yeah it's a glow right we're not on a flatter what more questions you mentioned about the design of the process so are those limited to the next cloud project that we did with it or any communication yes so in our case in the design we recall that I mentioned those are specifically related to next talk and next talk apps but with open source design for example we have a forum so you could ask for a review there or we're often at conferences for example I mean we also had a track at fos asia I think in 2017 and we should get a booth up and running again maybe next year but we often do we have a track every year at fos them actually in Brussels and there we sometimes also have a table where we have people come to us and they can do ad hoc reviews I mean you can also maybe just I don't know I'm just going to say you can come to us and just ask if we want to have a look at your app and we're going to give you some hints thank you thank you very much