you're starting for is all yours. Yes, you were already sharing it. So the question today is, is the earth flat? And last time I was on here, I did a larger presentation, I will just do four arguments this time. Not a whole lot of introduction and just keep it to the case. So when I go, when I've studied a question of is your flat, I have seen some places where this doesn't seem to work to me. The first point I'll make is a point I've seen many flat earthers give. It's that if one could see the light on Antarctica for 24 hours, that would debunk the earth. And if that's true, it's also true that if you can see the sun for 17 hours in south, south of Chile, that would be equally as devastating. Because as we see here, and this is the less nuanced model where where the sun doesn't go in and out from capricorn and cancer. But the point still stands. If you see this sun spinning around, you would see that there's only just very, very short time of light in Australia or south of Chile, or and mostly dark. And that would be true during the whole year, if even if the sun went back and forth between capricorn and cancer. But what we actually do see is that the shape of what how the sun lights up at the at the earth is more like this that in March and September, you instead of having a spotlight, you have sun halfway through as a half disk spinning around and round and round. And it it's even worse in December. Let's even say that Antarctica doesn't have light here. It's still true that south of Chile has 17 hours south of New Zealand has 15 hours or almost 16 hours of light at the same time that they you will at the exact same time be able to see the sun in south of Chile and in south of New Zealand. So so and that that's a very hard thing to explain on a flat earth view on the earth. What would make sense is if this was how the work how the earth worked. And you had you had earth getting sun and like we see here it wobbles a bit. So what would make even more sense if is if it didn't wobble as much, but was tilted and went around the sun like this. Another point and argument is that when you see the sun on the horizon, and you see it in from south south of Chile, in 22nd of December, you would see the sun going like an arc like this. So you would see that very, very high curved C, almost an O. If you could see the sun the entire time, it would be an O. But this is not what we see. This is not the path that the sun goes, but it would be if it wasn't a flat earth. What does make sense is this kind of model where you have it spinning around the sun with a tilt. This is my great Photoshop skills. Where I've pointed out three places, the places I've already mentioned south of Chile, south in New Zealand, and also south in South Africa. And on a flat earth, the sun would be, for instance, here. And if you then you would expect to have to look at that point to see the sun. But what what is actually the case is almost entire opposite. The red lines are the way you need to see to actually see the sun. And that that doesn't make sense at all a flat earth. But if this is the case, and it goes around the world around the sun like this, that would make sense, you would have that kind of pattern emerging where you would see the sun. Last point, there is a problem with the view distance, because in June, from south of Chile, you can see the sun for seven hours, seven and a half hours, which would make only this short arc here. But in December, if you could see equally as long, you would see the sun only for the same amount of time, a bit shorter in time. I haven't done the calculations, but probably seven hours straight. But in reality, we see the sun for 17 hours, which is, which means that you you can see almost twice as long in the summer, as you can in the winter, since it's opposite of what it is in Norway. And to make the matters even harder, you still have, you're still unable to see the sun where it's colored black, and just about there, which does not make sense at all. You can see this long from south of Chile, but not that long from Norway or wherever. So this, again, would make sense on a ball Earth, going around the sun, but it does not on a flat earth. Those are my four points, Pat. Yeah. And how much time do we have? James, how much time do I have? You bet. Let me just quick in the meantime. If, Leif, if you're able to pull out, I can do it on my end, but if you're able to pull out a full screen and think so much. And so let me just pull up that time for you, Pat. I'll let you I'll give you a 30 second heads up when we when we're running low on time. Okay. Yeah, I, I, I agree with my, my pro globe partner here. The the optics of the sun are should be fairly undeniable. Maybe maybe there's something we're missing here. I'm not sure. But I do come to the table here against my opponents, my flat earth opponents to, to try and gain knowledge, convince me, show me, you know, convince me the earth is flat. There's certain certainly experiments that can be done to to prove that. And, you know, to be quite honest, if the earth is flat, there's something I would want to know. So I'm, I'm not there. I'm not there yet. Pretty sure the earth is round, that kind of matches reality to me on all levels, you know, from mathematics to optics to just philosophy, even. But I'm open to the idea. So I'm here to, you know, explore what, you know, what you have to say and, and whatever persuasion you have. And I think that's important thing. That's a good discussion to have, because at the end of the day, I want to understand the reality of the world I live in. I have no, I have no dog and hunt. I just want to know the truth. So I don't want the earth to be round. I don't want the earth to be flat. There's no belief system involved at all. I just want the truth. And so it seems like, you know, the flat earth community is trying to like, bring some truth to the table. And I'm very open minded to it. And I want to have that discussion. Now, I have my challenges. So I'm not, not, I'm not gonna lie and say that I don't have challenges. It seems to me like the earth is round. So, so I'm here to hear what you guys have to say and persuade me. And, and I will bring those challenges as I see fit. And with that, I relinquish my time. Thank you very much. We will kick it over to the opening statement from the flat earth side. And want to let you know, folks, if it's your first time here at modern day debate, we are a neutral platform, hosting debates on science, religion and politics. We hope you feel welcome no matter what walk of life you are from. And with that, we will kick it over to our flat earth team for their 12 12 minute opening statement as well. Okay. Um, do you want to go first? I can't remember my flat flat of brother's name. What's your name, bro? Okay. First. Can you guys, can you hear me good? Think Lance is frozen. And I can't I'll take it. I'll take it. Gotcha.  That's probably better. I'll do that. I'll just start. I became a flatter loose. And now I was in 2015. It took me a while to like tell all my friends, but now pretty much I tell random strangers all the time that I know the truth. But so water always finds its level is one of the main things. It's called sea level, not sea curve. The horizon always rises to the eye of the observer, whether you be at 125,000 and a feet in a weather balloon. If NASA is not using a fisheye lens on their row pros, we've seen too far with the peaks are right there. So they float over the horizon and we and they disappear. Well, you just stand on the shore and you bring it right back into focus. So it's like, okay, what's going on there? The concentric rings that we see, like if you do a long exposure picture on like, long exposure. So when and you what you actually see is the stars twisting. So like you've got the north star that's stationary and then everything twists around twist around it. And that would not make sense on a globe. What I would say that the globe is the wrong model, I wouldn't say that the flat earth is like exactly the correct what we have a working model that we kind of look to and say this is our best theory on it and leaf is patterns. Like if you're in Chile, and you want to fly to South Africa, it's going to take you 23 to 32 hours and a layover in Dubai or UK. And what it should be is just a straight the shortest distance between two points is a straight line. So why aren't we flying all the way across? But you lay it out on a flat earth map, it makes total sense. Another thing is, this is like, good versus evil, it's all satanic, the people that are like telling us that, Oh, this is the way it is. And all of that. That's my view. It's to hide God. They have encoded 666 in the globe Earth. They tell us that we're spinning 66,600 miles an hour around the sun, which the constellations wouldn't make sense if we're doing that. Like, how do we see the Big Dipper and Ryan's belt and all the same stuff for centuries, if we're chasing the sun? Also, the formula for the curvature is 0.666 feet per mile squared. And one other one, the tilt, the degree of the tilt is 66.6 degrees. Just for fun, they told us that the dinosaurs ruled the earth 66 million years ago, which is 66 with 6 zeros. So they it's a fun game to them. Like my buddy was saying earlier, he said that stand make sure you stand six feet away from all your COVID social distancing. It's like, I mean, they couldn't take five feet or seven feet. It's just so weird. It's their game. I'll say pretty much that like all the photos that we see from NASA are either artists conception, even the guy that did the blue marble, he said it's Photoshop, but it has to be. What else? We should see satellites like we see airplanes flying in front of the moon. Like, I don't know if I have anything else right now. And I think I'll pass it off. All right. So I just started to YouTube, I'm not really social media savvy, just started a YouTube channel a couple days ago, and I already got flagged and one of my videos got taken down. I'm flatter day saints, you know, I'm just represent because you know, flat lives matter. A lot of people think that we live on a spinning cartoon ball brought to you by Jesuit priests, and that we come from monkeys, dinosaurs, yada, yada, yada. Anyways, I got no lot of trouble when I was younger. And right before I turn 21, I went to go live with a pastor of a church of victory outreach. And I live in them for a year. Every morning we'd wake up at five in the morning, we'd read the Bible for an hour. We do Bible study for an hour, then they'd send us off to go clean people's windows for slave labor, making even less than inmate firefighters make. When my story is that their logo is a globe saying they go to all four corners of the earth to reach the their whole thing is reaching drug addicts and gang members, which is cool. But I had so many questions, I go when Neil Armstrong and Buzz Aldrin, and Michael Collins flew to the moon, did they pass heaven? Did they pass right by heaven?  So and then I'd always asked my teacher, I said, How are people in Australia standing walking around upside down? How's rain going upside down?  I didn't understand it. I didn't understand at what point an airplane flying to Australia reverses and goes upside down. I didn't understand how if they're spending 1000 miles per hour, a helicopter could hover for an hour or not be 1000 miles away or how a plane leaving from California to New York and New York to California flying at the same speed and same elevation could reach the destination at the same time, right? Are we in a blender effect? Coriolis?   I almost died in a fire. And then I got right before the Thomas fire hit, I'm from Southern California. So I got to see the Thomas fire. Now I studied under a couple fire cal fire captains for a whole month. I know my 10s and 18s I know all about fire training. If I really wanted to I could probably go work for Cal fire and be a hot shot. Just from the Thomas fire, what I saw. So fire behavior is that everything that's a tree, a plant, grass is called is called fuel for fire. And I was seeing houses burning the foundation with the grass, the trees and everything still intact cars melted in the street. It completely defies physics as far as we know, regular fires, houses burn a little bit as a result of the bushes around burning. But I was seeing bushes around getting charred a little bit as a result of the houses burning defies physics. That's when I started to get into conspiracies. My girlfriend I come home one day she goes there just flat. I open hand to semester. I don't want to hear that. I don't have time for this. So she was watching Eric to base 200 reason why there's not a spinning ball. I get another shot. They said clicked on me. They said surveyors and people who build canals do not take the curvature of the earth into account. I stop right there. I'm like, no, this is can't be within five minutes. I had chill bumps on my arms.  I knew the earth was flat. And within an hour I knew I'd been lied to my whole life. And I'm the type of person that I don't like being lied to. If my parents aren't my real parents and anybody knows that, please tell me, I don't want to live this sugarcoated lighting. These are my real parents. They're not my real parents. And that's how I feel like I feel like I found out my parents aren't my real parents when I found out about this global earth deception. And if honest man wants to remain honest, once he's found out that he's told a lie or what he's ever saying is dishonest, he can remain an honest man and admit he's wrong or he can double down. And he can, his pride can get in the way and he can go on with his life. At that point, he's no longer an honest man.  If anybody can prove to me that we live on a cartoon spinning ball, I'm willing to pay a thousand dollars. I'm willing to admit when I'm wrong about something. I'm more than happy to admit when I'm wrong about something. Sorry about that. I wasn't prepared for this meeting. I found out about it a couple hours ago. So anyways, I was going to have my girlfriend print me up. She said there's over 43 pages of weather, weather modification patents. So on the last debate I heard with Maddie and Nathan, Maddie brought up a really good point. She was like, well, if the earth is a spinning ball, we couldn't account for weather. And I was like, please, Nathan, please, Nathan, say it, please, Nathan, say it. And he didn't say it, but I'm going to say it. The dopplers and all those things that they say can help predict the weather. Those things are creating the weather. You guys ever heard of Harp? You guys ever seen all those smokestacks? You guys know what those windmills are for? They're creating the weather. Google weather modification patents and you'll get about 43 pages dating back from the late 1800s. And if you guys think that the earth is surrounded by all these satellites and everything, Google Project Loon, that's L-O-O-N. They've been using weather balloons, dude. 98% of internet communications comes from undersea cable, right? So it becomes dangerous at the point where it goes from wired to wireless, right? Imagine if our whole life is a Superbowl, right? And we got that ball and we're running for the end zone and we drop it at the one yard line. And that's what they're doing. All the infrastructure you see everywhere, they're wiring the ground with the cables to bring you that wireless.  And that 60 gigahertz is going to take your guys's breath away, literally. It will deplete the oxygen molecule inside you. What does this have to do with the earth being round or flat? I'm glad you asked because it all stems from that.  And what they're doing with that little yarmulke is they are putting truth in plain sight and saying there's a dome over us.   And all my life, I was heliocentric. My parents are heliocentric. My dad went and got the vaccine. My aunt got the vaccine. Do you guys know the name of the company that puts out the Johnson and Johnson vaccine? Merck, M-E-R-C-K. The truth is in plain sight.  There's three of them. Stand six feet apart, stand six feet apart, stand six feet apart. I mean, the devil's in the details. If the devil's not real and the Bible's not real, that's all fine and good. I'm not here to debate that. But it's awfully strange that the elite keep using these 666, these 33, these 11-9, these 9-11s. If you get the free Masonic symbol with the two pillars, one on each side, and you draw a line down, you have one X to X-1. What is that? Hidromenumrose, that's 9-11. You guys need to wake up. And if you guys want to remain asleep, that's fine. I don't care if I lose this debate or not. As long as I reach one person out there in the internet land, who maybe might use their brain that God gave them to think about it and realize, gee, we don't live on a spinning cartoon ball. Well, if the earth is flat, how can we don't fall off? Dude, take a bug, put it on a plate, take a bug, put it on a basketball, spin the basketball on your finger. What falls off quicker?  Seize a third letter of the alphabet. Let's keep it. We're going to refrain from the R word, but I want to let you know you're also at 30. Sorry, I won't use that word anymore. My bad. 30 seconds left. We can give you a little bit of extra time because in case Lance wants to add some and get to your opening statement. As I mentioned, the openings are flexible. Just wanted to let you know that 30 seconds left. I got 30 seconds, right? Okay, shots out to ODD, horizon means horizontal indoctrination is awful. We were taught the globe model ever since y'all could crawl. We follow rapists and murders, liars, decents and worshipers saying we can't see curvature because we're all too small. I'm done. Gotcha. And we will give Lance a short bit. As we said, the openings are flexible. And so if you want to add some, you can Lance. I don't think we had heard from you yet. Let me know we did. Right? Yeah. Yeah, that's right. Thanks. Sorry about that. I'm still a little bit behind today. So what we were going to do is jump into the open dialogue portion. And so gentlemen, we're thankful that you're all here. We are hoping for a congenial friendly discussion. And so one thing I do want to keep you aware of is that cutting people off or filibustering. So talking too long. That's something that I will jump into moderate. Otherwise, I'm pretty laid back in terms of my moderation. And so we do like it being kind of organic and free here. So the floor is all yours and want to mention folks, our guests are linked in the description. You guys, you can check those links out and we really do encourage you to check those links out as we really do appreciate our guests. And that includes if you're listening via the podcast as we are now on many podcasts. And we want to let you know if you're listening via podcast, you can find our guest links there in the description box as well. Gentlemen, the floor is all yours. I think you're on mute, Pat. Our turn. Yes. So I think and one thing you keep mentioning is, for instance, the six feet thing here in Norway, it's two meters. So that's what we keep hearing. Does that mean it's less satanic here or what? There's a great question to me. Both of you have brought up the six. There's three meters in a there's three feet in a meter. So it's still six or six feet. Yeah. But the feet is arbitrary while meter is still arbitrary, but less so. I mean, bro, bro, it's like this. I'm telling you the devil's real. Look at him.   And you're telling me, well, he doesn't have horns. His horns aren't red. I'm like, bro, Lucifer can appear as the angel of light.   I can't prove it. So if something I can't prove, I'll be like, it's just my opinion. You know what I mean? And maybe somebody out there in the world will hear what I'm saying. And that's all that matters. I don't care if I lose this debate or not. But that's just my opinion on the six, six, six thing. I don't have proof of it. So therefore, point taking you win that one, buddy. So do any of you have a response for instance on how we are able to see the sun from south of Chile for 17 hours? How does that work? Well, I heard you mentioned something about the the midnight sun at Antarctica. Was that argument? I was on the road. No, no. So to avoid the entire Antarctica problem, I will just give you. Yeah, exactly. So I'll just give you that. Let's say Antarctica doesn't exist everything, whatever you want. But in south of Chile, you can see the sun for 17 hours, which makes the same point. OK, so you're saying that let's just say for argument's sake, the Antarctica doesn't exist, right? Yeah. So or whatever you want it to be. You ever played the game Jenga before? Yes, you start taking pieces out of the bottom. The whole thing crumbles, bro. So if Antarctica doesn't exist, then that means that your global model has a crack in it or a.k.a. a lie. If we were in the court of law, that would be fruit of the poison tree, bro. And I'd get that thrown out just just on just on the fact that it brings reasonable doubt into it. I mean, if Antarctica doesn't exist, then who's to say Chile even exists? I mean, have you even been to Chile? My neighbor is from Chile, and that's why I chose the specific Punta Arenas. She has been there, lived there. OK, well, I mean, my neighbor told me that she was on real housewives of Orange County, but I don't even think the chicks ever been married. So I mean, so you're denying Chile or any any any place south of Equator. That's all I need. Yeah. OK, so the Equator is like the circle in the middle of a dartboard, bro. The middle circle. Yeah, I know. You ever? I know the Play Store and Google Flatter Flatter. Yeah. OK. Yeah, so you're asking me how you're asking me how how can there be that 17 hour daylight in Chile, right? Yes. OK, I don't know. I've never been to Chile. I've never researched that. It will be something I look into. You guys won that point, unless my other flat earth brother has something to say. Actually, I've never even heard of that. I was going to ask the same thing. Why did you pick Chile? But I would say my rebuttal to that would be about the flights. One thing I tell people when I'm waking up, Globers is like, OK, I show them a globe and, you know, you I've got it here. So you're flying from Chile, Argentina, any of these places here, but you want to go over here to Africa. Why? Why do we have to run all the way up here to England? You know, it doesn't make any sense. I haven't heard the 17 hours for the daylight. I I'll have to check that out. But OK, it doesn't change. It doesn't change for me. I mean, yes, sir. Yes, I think there's a little bit of a delay. So we're we're actually not talking over each other just so everybody's clear. There's I think there's some delay or lag. So Lance, I can explain that. I have aviation knowledge and we don't when we fly from South America to. You know, South Africa, let's say, we don't fly up to England, but there is an arc that is done. It doesn't go that high. See this right behind me. This is the aviation chart. So I have some knowledge of this stuff. So the reason that the reason that pilots do that, the reason that navigation works is because you can test it on the globe. You have right there with the measuring tape. If you have a cloth measuring tape, you go from the tip of, you know, South America to the tip of, you know, Africa and then put in measure that and then if you put a slight arc in it, it'll measure less, actually. So that's why we navigate the Earth that way is the best way I can describe it. So so there. So that kind of brings up another point, which is direction, which is how how does north, south and east, west work on a flat plane? Because obviously we've mastered human beings have mastered navigation on the Earth, whatever it is. Let's say it's a flat Earth. You know, we've mastered navigation. We can we can bring cargo ships from China. We can bring, you know, cargo ships from the UK and the US and we can go in all directions and we fly to wherever we want. You can get on the plane to fly to anywhere in the world. You want to go, you know, take COVID out of the equation, right? So how does north, south and east, west? Actually, the center would be Magnetic North.  So straight in any direction doesn't matter which direction it is because Antarctica is the outside of the the ice wall. So two pilot questions to you is, you know, once they reach cruising altitude, why aren't they dipping the nose down to account for curvature? And the other one, why can't they fly over the South Pole? Why can't we circumnavigate that? So when we're circumnavigating, we're just going east, magnetic, east and west. We're just turning, you know, OK, planes. Well, planes have flown over the South Pole, so I'm not sure what you mean by that. But like directly over, like from the north to the south, like Amelia Earhart, she went around the earth like this, right? But not from the north pole to the south pole back to the north pole. No one's ever done that. All right, since. OK, how about this? Well, since we're talking about direction, if I'm in North America, if I start walking towards the north, the north pole, which would be the center of the earth, let's say, right? What direct I'm walking north, right? So once once I reach the center of the earth, at that point, I reach that center of the earth and I'm watching walking north is to my back. Right. Am I now walking south? Magnetic south, but you're still walking the same direction. If, you know, yeah, OK, my question. All right, my question would be this. How can I walk north and south at the same time? Because on a flat plane, you would be walking in the same direction. And I'm walking north and south at the same time. How is that possible? It's just magnetic. That would be magnetic north would be behind you. But south would be in front of you. Yes, but even as I'm approaching north, I'm still walking on a flat plane, which means that it doesn't matter once I cross the center of the earth on the flat earth model. I'm still walking north and south at the same time. Right. But it's not as that work north and south on your. It's not. If you look at your compass, north is going to be behind you. No, you know, you haven't changed any direct. You know, you haven't changed the direction. So you just walked right over the north pole and you just kept going. Yeah, but before before before I get to the north pole on a flat plane. Right. And before I get to the north pole, but way before I approach it, I'm walking north. Right. And on a flat plane, south is over here. I'm walking north and south at the same time. You see what I'm saying? That on a plane, it's way out here would be south. How do you walk north and south at the same time? It's impossible. Is not because, like, I mean, I. Can I say something? Yeah, sure. Go ahead. OK, so I'm just wondering about compasses. So why do compasses only point to the north? I'm just curious. Magnicism and one more question. Why when we're little kids, why is there a metal rod through the north pole? You know, they tell you the north pole. But it's not there. It is there. Go up there and look. It is. But they want to see it because they put a metal rod through it in a globe. Right. There's a giant metal rod at the north pole, bro. Go look. I've been there. I've seen it. Yeah, but I'm talking about the globe, though. The metal rod they put through it. Yeah. So right here. Can you answer my question? How this is how we can travel in two directions at the same time north and south at the same time? OK, well, let me just say something. When you say we, I hear a lot of people say, like, we went to the moon or we won the Super Bowl, bro, I didn't do any of those things with you. You may have done it, but I didn't do it. So I can't answer it for the we part and I can't answer your question because I've never done it. So if my flutter brother would like to concede, you guys just want another point, three points. But somebody out there in real life land will see that the way to have the globe set up, right? With Polaris, how does how to answer this? How does Polaris never move? Why do all the stars circle it every night? If we were if we were going whipping and turning through an infinite universe, then we would see about you. OK, imagine this. Imagine if you're on a roller coaster, right? Magic Mountain, right? You have a basketball, you have a basketball and you take a girl pro to the basketball. Now, imagine the roller coaster is moving. It's going really fast. Then you start spinning the basketball on your finger. Are you going to see the same hot dog vendor and the same people day after day? You're going to see something completely different every minute of every hour of every day of every year. And it's the same thing without a space, but even crazier. So it's like, no, if I'm spinning that, if I'm spinning that basketball with a GoPro on my finger, well, while the roller coaster is going, how do I? How does that hot dog vendor always remain in the middle with all the people and everything waiting in line, surrounding it day after day? If this roller coaster is moving 666,000 miles per hour. You see what I'm saying? Like the evil kimchi square, black holes, it's so preposterous that we can't, as human beings even comprehend it. I can answer that question. It's a fallacy is what you're talking about because you're trying to take something that's on a large scale, large, very large scale. You're trying to condense it down the tweet, tiny, tiny, minuscule, microscopic. So things work differently on big scales than they do in like the palm of your hand. So when you're talking about planetary movements, when you're talking about solar system movements, those things are giant, huge, energetic things that are happening. They're not basketballs in your hand. They're not roller coaster rides. Okay, you convinced me. I'm not a flat earth or anymore. I'm a blower now. Now, but for real, like my boy, ODD says, he says, and they say we can't see the curve because we're all too small. You know, we're on a spin and ball. I mean, they've been using that, we're all too small things since I can remember.  Well, I mean, everything, so we're too small to see that, but yet they can measure things that are light years away. I tried to look up on a calculator for how far a light year is. And we were talking about into the hundreds of trillion. So they say that they can see light years away. You ever heard of Michelle Fowler? That's T-H-A-L-L-E-R. She's a science communicator for Nasha. And she, this is, I'm quoting her. This is what she says.  There's no way that you couldn't be because they are seeing back into the past. So I don't know what world or fantasy people live in where they're saying, well, the stars aren't really there because they exploded millions of years ago. Okay, if that's the case, I'm not arguing that. If that's the case, how did Nasha go back even further to know that they're really not there?  I mean, there's science fiction movies that are more realistic than this reality that we're living in, but go ahead, The Forger. Yeah, Leif, Leif. So I hear you say that it's ridiculous. And you seem to presuppose that they've actually seen that they have exploded, for instance. That's, at least when I've heard it, they say they could have been exploded, but we don't know yet because the light hasn't reached us yet. That's what a light year is about. It's how long light travels in a year, which would be very long. And when you're speaking about how long you can see, that's also a point I made in My Four Points, that you do have a problem that often, when you talk about a flat earth and a globe Earth Earth would say, well, why can't I see Mount Everest then? So I acknowledge your point there, that atmosphere is so thick that you can't see so far. But the cost of that is that it's also weird that you're able to see the sun from south of Chile in June, because then it's almost on the entire other end of the Earth. So you must be able to see that far. And if you're able to see that far in June, why are you not able to see that far in December when other people must be at that same time able to see almost as long? So there's something about how long you're able to see that doesn't really work at all. Do you understand the problem? I understand English. And so the words that you're saying, I know the definition of each of them. As far as being in Chile and you keep bringing that one argument up, I don't know, because like I said, where I live it's really hot. It's not Chile right here. The thing is, bro, you can bring up a certain point, and that's all good. The thing is, we live in a modern-day society where they say that I saw a commercial the other day. Here's a perfect example. We can send a man to Mars, or we can send a rover to Mars, but we have to prick people's fingers for the insulin. Now we have an app that says how much your blood sugar is. I saw another ad where this girl was talking about, I can have sex on my, they can send a hot rod into a roadster into space, but we can't have sex on our period. Yeah, I mean, these are just, I'm just giving you examples, right? And so I'm not gonna use the T word, James, all right? But it's like this, I mean, Elon, I'm gonna let me quote Elon Musk. He says, you know it's real because it looks so fake. If it was fake, we'd have much better CGI. When somebody says it's much, we'd have much better, he's kind of implying that they're using kind of poopy CGI and they'd have much better. So he's putting a half truth right there in your face. I mean, if you guys really believe that they sent a Tesla roadster to space and that they have things on Mars, you know, if you guys believe that Richard Nixon talked on a landline rotary phone to Neil Armstrong on the moon, but a couple of years later during Vietnam, they couldn't get a cell phone signal and they had to carry a huge metal box. And quite often a lot of military Americans died because they couldn't get a signal and they couldn't get an air raid on time for the Viet Cong came through. So either one, the Armstrong, Richard Nixon things real and they just said, F the troops in Vietnam, we don't care about you guys. We have the technology for you guys always to get a signal, right? For an air raid, but we're not gonna give it to you.  So, I mean, the arguments I could present are gonna show wicked government in one way or the other. One way or the other, like you said, well, let's just presuppose that Antarctica is not there. Well, I mean, when I play Jenga, I don't play games, but if I did play Jenga, I could be like, well, I'm gonna presuppose it. I'm gonna take out these sticks from the bottom and it's not gonna fall. But I mean, let's take the sticks out and it falls. You could presuppose stuff all day.  I'm sorry. Yeah. So the reason why I say you can presuppose that Antarctica doesn't exist is simply to avoid that entire problem. So, so, I know that many flat earthers have a big problem with Antarctica. So I want you to use that. So, so, so, please understand me correctly. So, so I'm not, I'm not, I'm not, I'm just avoiding a point of contention, especially many flat earthers disagree on what to think about Antarctica. And I'm just avoiding that entire discussion, going directly to something that everyone south of the equator could help, help being the evidence themselves. So this debate, Billy was supposed to be here. He is, he lives in Australia. I could use him as the exact. Is he the flat earther that I'm filling in for? Yeah, yeah. Hey, so Nathan called me today, right? Yeah, I didn't get my phone was dead. And then Nathan calls me at 333. I was born on the 333rd day of the year. I'm into numerology and I'm into zodiac signs. Anyways, we can talk about zodiac signs and everything. But just to, I think Leif was going to make a point based on like the Australian position on the earth. Yeah. Bring it back to the topic. My bad, my bad. Okay. My point is that you could do this in Australia. You can do it in basically half of Africa. And you can do it on the entire South America. But the reason why I use Puntas Arenas, the city in South of Chile, is because that's where it's the most extreme. So that's, it's a city of 75,000 people. So there's plenty of people, maybe not in an American standard, but in an Norwegian standard, that's the fifth largest city. Fifth largest city. So, what was the elevation? That's, I'm not sure. Is it on the coast? Yeah. So it's near by the coast at least. I don't know if it's entirely at the coast, but it's nearby at least. Yeah, so not super high all the time. But I'm not sure that would matter. Yeah, I don't see why that matters. Yeah, so the point would be that any place south of equator and the further south, the more extreme. That's why I use south of Chile, because that's the most southern part we get on our grid. So as long as you believe that there live people on the south of the equator, my point stands. That's all I need. I just heard you use the B word. I like that, the believe word. That's good. We all have our beliefs, bro, you know what I mean? I think what he was saying is if you believe that there are people south of the equator. And belief is, yeah, that's something that you brought up earlier, like you kind of keep using that word towards us, if we believe, we believe. I don't believe the Earth is round. It seems to be that it is. It's not a belief, I have no faith. Can I say one thing real quick? Bro, I believe that the Earth is round too.  They're round. Everybody seems to go, the Earth is in flat, it's round. I go, well, you're half right. The Earth is round and it's flat. I don't know why everybody can't, I don't know why people can't say sphere, sphere, sphere. All right, sure, fair enough. Fair enough, you call me out some nomenclature there. I believe, I don't believe the Earth is a globe. It's my understanding of reality that the Earth is a globe. I don't have faith that the Earth is a globe. It's my understanding of reality, just like walking my dogs is something that's real to me. Okay, so it's not a belief. It's an understanding of the world around me. Can I ask you something, Pat? Yeah, sure. So is there any lie that comes from government, media, science that you said, or that you're like saying, okay, I don't necessarily believe that even though that government, science and media are all telling me that this is what happened, like the Kennedy assassination or 9-11. Anything that you would say, or is it just everything that the United States government says is absolute truth? Absolutely not, the government lies all the time. Politicians lie all the time. Government is not to be trusted. I will agree with you guys on that. Don't ever trust government.  You shouldn't trust government. So you're onto something there. Don't trust your government. But that doesn't mean that government, the government told me the Earth is a globe. Therefore I believe it because I'm brainwashed or anything. Again, screw the government. I don't know if I can cuss it or not, I'm just not gonna cuss it. Screw the government. I navigate the waters of reality on my own, dude. I'm Pat Turner. I'm sitting here right here in this house. This is my world. This is my reality. I can tell the Earth is a round globe, okay?   Fair enough. But yeah, as far as the government goes, they have no say in what Pat Turner thinks about this aviation chart over my head. Hey, can I say something about that aviation chart? Sure. It's flat. Yeah, yeah. That's what I was gonna say. You got that. You took the word right out of my mouth, bro. That's right. And that's the easiest way to navigate these segments. So what you're looking at is... It's the only way, bro. It's the only way. What you're looking at is up here is part of North Carolina and over here is Alabama. And yes, we do flatten out aviation visual from above. We flatten that out. It makes it easier to see what you're looking at. You've flattened the curve, right? Yeah. Straight up. Yeah, good one, dude. We flattened the curve. We take... But it's not distorted. It's accurate. So... I'm not arguing that the map behind you is accurate. It looks flat and accurate. It's absolutely accurate. So as a round globe that still works, you can take it and flatten it and make a accurate map out of it. As is, right? But you know... As it is, yeah. But you know what you can't do is you can't take a globe and make it an actual representation. Cut up any kind of globe that they have. You can take like a plastic, like a beach ball that has been with the globe printed on it. It's not accurate. Every map that we have... And they used to have some in the school that was like this, you know, that had like cutouts. Even that is still not accurate. I don't know what... I don't know what you mean by that. It's not accurate. It's kind of like it would show... Well, it would show... Okay, so if you try to fold it back up, like take your flat map and try to fold it into a ball. You can't go back the other way.  Okay, but yeah, back to that. I hear what you're saying. It's a little convoluted. What you're saying? I'm well aware. I can navigate the globe using this. So, you know, again, we've mastered navigation. Human beings have mastered navigation on the planet. Can I ask you something real quick? You said you can navigate the globe with a flat map, right? But can you navigate the flat earth with a globe? That's what he's trying to say, I believe. If I'm wrong, just let me know. I've been wrong before. No, I think, I mean, navigation would be completely different on a flat plane. We wouldn't have any kind, north, south, east, west wouldn't exist. We would have to come up with the, there would be a completely different system for navigation. It would be in sectors. You're saying northeast, west, and south wouldn't exist on a flat plane? That's correct. Weird, because most of the compasses I use are flat and round, but you're saying it wouldn't exist. And every map I've ever seen is flat with the northwest, east, and south on it. Every map. How would you have directions on a spinning ball? How could there be any up, down, or around? Oh, that will, I mean, well, you know this. North is the top of the earth, south is the bottom of the earth, and east and west is, you know, latitudinally up and down, latitudinally around the earth.  That's flying in an air curve, right? I mean, my bad, an airplane. Flying in an airplane, yeah, airplanes are real, right? In a world where level means curve and plane means curve, you know what I mean? Yeah, yeah, good one. With all the technology they have now, there shouldn't even be a debate. You guys should have squashed us like ants, bro, but still, here we remain, you know? I'm just trying to have a discussion with you guys. No, I am too. I'm not trying to squash anybody, man. Bro, I'm not either, but what I'm saying is false. I'd like to be squashed because I'd like to remain an honest man. Okay, so from what I've heard so far, I can't see that you've engaged with any of the four points I made. You haven't made any points that either engages with it and shows why I shouldn't use it as an argument, nor have you conceded it. So, you conceded three points. Yeah, I conceded three points you, I gave them to you, bro. Yeah, yeah, yeah, but that's not the points I've got. I really present this as arguments. So I would also like to remain honest and for me to remain honest, I need to see some engagement with these arguments, which to me they seem to actually establish the world as or our earth to be spheroid-ish, at least. Okay, well, how about if I just present two words that base my argument and I'll just bring up one point and how about if you can give a rebuttal to that? Okay. Okay. Two words, C-level. Yeah, so first off, using the word level as an argument that because we call it level, it needs to be infinitely flat, which you seem to imply in your opening speech. That I'm really trying to see how that is an actual argument, it's good rhetoric. Okay, okay, let me just, let me three, four minutes then. Okay, so C-level, which is the same in China, Australia, United States, Canada, anywhere around the world, C-level means the same thing because a plane flying from one country or continent to another or a mountain in one country, continent or another uses the term C-level determine how high you're flying, how high this mountain is or how high they build a building. Now, if we lived on a globe, the word C-level not only would be irrelevant, it would be fantasy, you'd have to say, I'm at the sea at such and such longitude and such and such latitude because we live on a ball where there are no level surfaces. Unfortunately, the word we live in, they use C-level, builders use the term C-level, airplane pilots use the term C-level, people who are hiking in the mountains use the term C-level and the term is the same worldwide, right? It's the same, if I'm wrong, let me know. Okay, C-level only means this, it's in that specific area of the planet where the C meets the coast. Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait. Can you back up what you just said? You said the specific area of the what? Specific area of the planet where this- I thought you said plane, my bad. I thought you said the plane.  I'm not gonna get my check this week. Hey, bro, you know what? There's a 50-50 chance that you are that person in which you're describing, there's a 50-50 chance that God just hasn't lifted the scales from your eyes yet, bro, but I love you. I hear you, I understand that. I respect what you just said actually, but C-level just means where the C meets the coast. That's what- That's what C-level means. Yes, and that is actually different in different parts of the world, because the C around the world does not actually, it is fluctuating. It's not actually like all the same here or there because you have, so down in the lower parts of the earth, the below the equator, towards Antarctica, and I'm not gonna concede that Antarctica doesn't exist. I think it does. So you might have a big giant ice shelf in Antarctica break off, and it might actually change C-level in that area. So that could affect New Zealand, that could affect Australia, that could affect the tip of South America. It's the same thing in the North Pole. You have fluctuations in how the sea works. It's not uniform. It looks uniform. It would, in theory- It appears that way. It appears uniform. It appears that it's flat, but we're too small to see the curve, right? So I'm just trying to explain that C-level is not one thing in the East Coast of North America as it would be in the South Coast of Australia. It's not the exact same thing. Palates do calculate for that, and it's roughly good enough for them to land their planes. So we're not talking about a thousand foot difference. So we're even at 6606 foot difference. But it's 6606.  You just earned your check with throwing those numbers out there, bro. Good job. You know what I mean? If so, you deserve that check more than me. Speedo juice, speedo juice, speedo juice, right? So you can't just say C-level, and it means just one thing. It means different things in different areas. And it's just where the- I guess it means different things to the observer, right? Everything's just an interpretation. That thing's exact, right? Well, tell me this. How much does C-level change in a tidal wave? Like the one that happened in the early 2000s, over in Asia, how much C-level change was there? I don't know. It was about 15 foot, 15 foot C-level change. For about 15 or 20 minutes, maybe tops. And then water- Longer than that. It was hours. Water, when unmanipulated, always finds its true level, bro. I'm just leveling with you, dawg, you know? Well, yeah. Well, I understand that. And I know how gravity works. And of course, you guys want to talk about that. The G word again. I love it when you guys say the G word. That's good. Yeah. You take the alphabet. You take the alphabet. Z is the 26th letter of the alphabet. You start over. So A would be 27. Oh, no. We have two more letters. B would be 29. D would be 30. E would be 31. F would be 32. And G would be done, done. Yeah. Yeah, I don't want to get into a new numerology debate. My bad, my bad. Hey, I'll be quiet. I keep going. Give Lance a chance to talk. Yeah, go ahead, bro. What do you think? What I would say is if Flat Earth is just a joke, why are my friends' channels getting deleted? Why is Facebook attacking? It just doesn't make any sense, but Flat Earth is the ultimate truth. You know, Lance, if I could address that with you real quick, I don't know.  Oh, we've lost Lance. Of course. Yeah, Nathan Thompson's channel, his Facebook group, official Flat Earth and globe discussion group with 150,000 members just got deleted. Like, really? Yeah, there's been hundreds of, like, I wake up every day like, OK, YouTube did another algorithm update. And like, all of these channels that I wanted to watch, like I would have it in my watch later, gone. I'm like, OK. Well, I mean, I'm on a big debate in some of the live about Flat Earth and global solutions. No. So to be fair, Lance, I mean, was there anything posted on those groups that was, like, inappropriate? No, but I mean, the inappropriate stuff that they do allow is crazy. Like, all of the pedo, all the stuff that is out there. But talking about the shape of the Earth, though, that has to be shut down. So I would simply say this. I agree. They should not. They should not. They should not. I agree. I agree 100%. I think it's a terrible thing that they do like that. Like, James here, he doesn't. Yeah, he hasn't been shut down yet. So I agree with James that we need to discuss these things rather than shut down and just silence it. Yeah. And that's why you guys are here. That's why we're here. Have a discussion. So another point I would like to make. We were talking about the speed of light and all of that. I have a buddy. And independently of all this stuff, he's like, man, I think they're lying about the speed of light, which later on, we found out that the number that they say it is in meters per second, it actually is the coordinates of the Giza pyramid. So it's like, it's just all a joke to these guys. I mean, there's no way. Even that Micho Kaku guy, the astrophysicist that they always put on CNN, he was like, when we're all factors to the 10 to the 30th power, it's just a rounding error. So they're just guessing at everything they're doing and telling us, oh, this is what's going on. And all of that.  There was a measure of the speed of light, though. I mean, that's measurable. You can do that test yourself if you like. There's a way to do that. Well, back to like one of his main points of Leaf's points is that I would like to know how many hours of sunlight we get each day in East Texas because it's like, it doesn't sound like that's too far off. Oh, yeah. So on the northern part, I would say it works equally well on the flat earth and on the globe earth. So I won't it's no problem. I live in Norway. We have. So I've been where we have 24 hours of sun. But that doesn't matter because it's in the north. So so that would that would work anyways. So the question comes when you get on the south side of Equator. Then it's a problem. Or then then at least it's hard to explain. Because if the earth, no, if the sun went as the classic flat earth it does, you would have very short time of sun in entire Australia, both in winter and in summer. There would be no no time where the sun went really slowly over Australia. And if that was your solution, which theoretically theoretically it could be. But then you need to explain that at the same time it's going slowly over over Australia. It also can be seen equally as long in Brazil. So it's like it is. I can't see how flat earthers are able to respond to this. So I would very much like if I realize if you haven't heard arguments, it's hard to answer it. But I would really much encourage either you or flat earthers watching this. I've tried to communicate with Rob. Heba. Yes, because he's made how this sun should work. But I haven't gotten a response. I don't know. Yeah, it's interesting. I'll have to look into that. Well, there was an article and I want to say it was put out by some university. 11 states are flatter than Kansas, which Kansas is known as the plains. It's just really flat. So it's like if there's 11 states plus Kansas that are just super flat, according to NASA information, how do we live on a globe again that we're supposed to be curving down? OK. I mean, OK, so yeah, you're talking about the Midwest, like flat plains of the Midwest that goes to the rise of the continental shelf of Rocky Mountains pop up all of a sudden. And I mean, so now we're talking horizon. We're talking what appears to be flat. And of course, I'd say the best test of that would be a body of water, because obviously water doesn't mountain up, right? There's no terrain to water. Agreed? Fair enough? Sure. OK, so if you go on Lake Superior and you take a boat and you take that boat away from Toronto, you will see Toronto disappear over the horizon, no matter how much high powered optics you have. You could have a gazillion high powered optic. You will see the CN tower slowly diminish and disappear over the horizon. That's because that's due to perspective. People can't see more than 30 miles, even on the best conditions. Mostly they can't see beyond 15 to 17 high powered optics. So take an optic with you.  Because I had a P1000 before I broke it. And I've zoomed in on boats that boats disappear over the horizon, even though Neil deGrasse Tyson says, during the Red Bull Jump, he couldn't see the horizon because he was too high. And then he slaps the beach ball and says, that stuff is flat. But yeah, I have tested it. I've seen boats disappear over the horizon. And then I zoom right back in on the hull with a P1000. You could even use a P900. Yeah, but eventually you won't see them. So you could do this in Lake Superior with Toronto. We have the CN tower, which is 1,000 feet near. OK, wait. So let me do it. So if we're 120,000 feet and we're too small to see the curvature, then how can we see any curvature on the horizon that's like 30, 40, 50 feet away? I mean, if I'm wrong, if it's more than that, you can't visually detect the horizon. I'm not 50 miles. I mean, I'm at miles. I'm sorry. Yeah, miles. Yeah, so you can. Absolutely. If you get on Lake Superior, you get on a boat, you go away from Toronto, 50 miles.  Is that the Chicago skyline? No, that's Toronto. No, because I was going to say is what you're seeing is a mirage. Chicago skyline, yeah. It's not a mirage. What you can see from 50 miles, 50 miles out away from Toronto on Lake Superior, you can see that CN tower still sticking up over the horizon. And then you can go another 50 miles and another 25 miles. And then that tower will absolutely disappear. This is a real world experiment. You can do yourself. OK, I've never heard. To me, the Earth is flat. Whoa, I'm going to put that on my album when you're saying that. That's good. Mm-hmm. Because the truth is the truth is you could stand on the shores of Lake Superior on the east side of Lake Superior just standing there on the shore at night. If the Earth was flat, you'd be able to see Toronto with your own eyes at night. It would be it would be out there. It's a big thing. It's big. It would be 250 miles away. And you would see it standing on the shores at night. That's how the optics would work on a flat plane. But because the Earth is round, if you go stand on the eastern shores of Lake Superior, you won't see Toronto. You would have to get in an airplane and be about, I don't know, 10,000 feet in the air. Then you would see Toronto. So earlier, I don't know if you heard me say this earlier, but the Earth is round, bro. So that's not even an argument. I totally agreed that the Earth is round. So you're saying there's curvature to the flight, so there's a cloud on the wall behind me and I have a coin in my pocket, right? Yeah, yeah, round. Those things are round, bro. Yeah, OK, OK. Again, come on, man. Be fair with me, bro. You're getting in. No, you're getting in, bro. If you're getting, I said flat plane. I said flat plane. If you were on a flat plane, you'd be able to stand on the eastern shores of Lake Superior, 250 miles away from Toronto. And at night, on a clear night, you would see that city out there in the distance. It would actually be visually amazing. You know what, no one else we would see if we lived on a flat plane and Earth was flat. We'd see star patterns that were circular with Polaris in the middle. We'd see sea level being completely flat. We'd see the horizon being flat. We'd see winds moving in different directions. We'd see insects not affected by this supposed gravity. We'd see things that are in the ocean not getting sucked down to the floor by gravity. When we jump in the ocean, we bob right back up. That's the things we'd see on a flat plane. I'm just saying that. But I just read also work on a globe Earth. Yeah, I see Polaris never moving with all the stars making a perfect circle night after night. You're up here on a globe Earth that's spinning through an infinite space. Forget the stars. I'm talking about Toronto. OK, so I forgot. Now I'm forgetting about Antarctica. That's a Jenga piece you just pulled out of your argument. And we're creating the stars. Well, I mean, should we forget about sea level and horizon too? OK, all right. How about this? Let's start from scratch. Let's just start from scratch. You want to? OK. How about this? We shift gears because I'm curious about this. I'm curious as I'm going to be. Why not go? If I made one of you globers actually doubt your model, then my job's accomplished. Like I said, if I got one of these kids out here in TV, land, or YouTube land, to actually question what he's been taught and realize that we don't live on a spinning cartoon ball brought to you by Jesuit priests, that we live on a flat and on living plane as our eyes and all our senses observe, then my job's done. You guys can win the argument. As long as one kid learns the truth. One convert. One convert. One plane. Say it ain't so, Joe. Say it ain't so. You know what I mean? Agreed. I understand you. Like I get that. I do. So with this whole circumference being Antarctica, why not go there?  You know, is that a rhetorical question? You really want you want me to answer that because I will. It's not rhetorical. It's a legitimate question. So check this out. You could Google this. Google the Google the United Nations logo, their flag that's coincidentally divided up into 33 sections, bro, and it doesn't have Antarctica on it. But what surrounds it like the crust on a pizza on this flat plane that we live on is Antarctica. Now, the sections that it's divided into are sections that each country in that section is responsible for keeping any civilians who go within 300 miles of this circle close to Antarctica. You will get 3D, either deterred, detained, or destroyed. But I've never seen. It's harder to go to any military base in the world than to go to Antarctica. Either you don't know this already or you haven't done your research, bro, one or the other. Well, it's not about research. So it's only about research, bro, because none of us have ever been to Antarctica. I know my brother and my dad go like, oh, I know somebody who's been to Antarctica. Yeah. And like, I know somebody who was in the thousand notes shooting, too, bro. I mean, come on, you know, I'm sorry. I'm trying to get somewhere. OK, OK. Give me a chance. Go ahead, bro. I'm sorry. You're a good guy.  Well, thanks, man.  I like both of you guys, man. Like James, James, not so much. But hey, James, James, James. This is how I feel about James, bro. You know what I mean? James, give me the platform. Oh, yeah, I was joking, of course. James, it's going to be like Dr. Dre, and I'm going to be like his M&M, bro. Give me a chance. I'm going to let him fire up under that. Thank you. I'm flattered. However, we'll kick it over to Pat. I think Pat had a thought on his mind. Thank you kind. Yeah. OK, all right. So basically, on our round, flat Earth, we're looking at roughly 80,000 miles circumference on that. And based on the geography that we understand, it'd be about 80,000 miles circumference. I'm just curious. Where did you get that number from? Just a simple math, easy measurements. Can you say simple math, easy measurements? Well, I mean, I'm expanding that a little bit. OK, look, dude, it's not 500,000 miles. It's not 50,000 miles. I mean, how do we know? How do you know it's not 500,000 miles? I'm just curious. Do you know the distance between New York and LA? I know what they've told us. I've never measured it myself. I don't believe anything unless I measure it myself, because I've been lied to about everything. All right. Now, I don't want to get in the minutia of things, dude, do you know the distance between your home and your nearest grocery store? Do you trust that distance? Yeah, but like the distance you're talking about, we're all too small to even notice it. OK, well, I've driven from New York to LA. So I can tell you, it's about 4,000 miles. Can I ask you if you've ever done donuts around something the size of Utah? OK, I know where you're going with that. Look, listen. Got to Matty. Yeah, yeah. I've driven from New York to LA. It's 4,000 miles, roughly, roughly, OK? So if you take that, if you take that, just that segment, say I know what 4,000 miles is, and you apply it to the flat earth idea of the circumference of the flat earth, it's roughly 80,000 miles, OK? It might be 86. It might be 72. I'm just ballparking it. So let's just ballpark it, OK? Can we agree on a ballpark, 80,000 to 100,000 to 60,000 miles circumference? Yeah, that's fine. All right, so who's guarding that? Like, who's guarding that huge circumference? Bro, you just said in your own statement, you said who's guarding it. Who, who? Probably the World Health Organization, bro. You know what I mean? OK. I'm just saying, the United Nations? The who, yeah. OK, so I mean, so go there. Like, you just pick one spot. I mean, that's a huge, huge area to work with. Just pick one spot and go there, see what happens. Well, the thing is I had $50,000 saved, bro, and I decided to buy a ticket to outer space through Elon Musk instead of the Antarctic trip, so I'm still waiting for that. OK. So I'll let you know how that turns out, and then I'll go to Antarctic after. Hey, you know what? Fair enough. If you're going to buy a ticket in the space, I'm done with that discussion. Let's move on. Cool. All right. You guys won that point. Good one. No, no. He gave it to you. Oh, he did? Well, you know what? I don't accept it. I don't accept it. He can have it. Yeah, he delayed it. No free handouts over here, baby. No free handouts over here. I don't accept it. Give him that point, James. Please, give him that point. He needs it. That's right. Four points so far.  The thing is, this shouldn't even be discussion.   We shouldn't even have a discussion, dude.  But unfortunately, we're just getting bigger and bigger, bro. No, listen, you should have a voice.  You guys seem like cool guys. I could hang out with you. We could hang out and get some drinks, shoot some bull. Like, you're not crazy.  We could go watch the Harlem Globetrotter game together. You know what I mean? Yeah, man. Like, I'm not here to call anybody names, man. I'm just trying to have an engaging discussion about beliefs and reality. Absolutely, bro. Yeah, Lance has talked in a while, so what's up? Put it this way, bro. If people didn't believe in the world, I wouldn't have anything to do every day. You guys give me something to do. You guys have actually fulfilled my life calling. All right. It's called flat smacking, and I do it very well. Fair enough, fair enough. Lance? OK, about the, like, we've got rivers. Like, some of the longest rivers in the world are over 5,000 miles long, to your point. Now, how does that river flow up the, at some point, you know, if it's 5,000 miles and here's the curve, at some point, the river has to flow up to the apex point. But I just want to say I don't speak for all flat earthers. I don't have to believe everything that any other flat earther does, like, and, you know, and Neil deGrasse Tyson said it's a pear shape anyway, so. No, he's, yes. And look, I'll give you guys this, dude.  He's a good science communicator, though. No, he's just, you know, he's just being the wrong approach. And if you Google him, it says he's actually an actor, but, you know, I don't know anything. And maybe he is. Like, I'm not going to. He has been in movies. Yeah, so, so I don't know. Leif, can you address the river question? That's a good question. So I'd say that basically is the exact same point as why doesn't the water fall down from, for instance, Australia, because it's on the bottom. But what we've been going around all this time is I have to assume that you have done your research here. So you know how gravity is supposed to explain this on. So it's OK. You don't believe in gravity. But but it does it does work on that model where gravity actually pulls things to the center. Can I can I say one thing about gravity? Unless you're going to pull that peg out, too. You've already pulled out the Antarctica peg pulled out. What was the other peg you pull? I can't remember the other peg. I mean, I'm going to give you a whole lot. Yeah. So the whole gravity, four words that can just prove gravity, centrifugal force, actually five centrifugal force, actually six centrifugal force, electromagnetism, buoyancy, and density. So I can take a thousand pound piece of metal, hold it up with a hundred pound magnet, indefinitely. Where's gravity? Is gravity picking and choosing? Another thing is the right at the at the fair, you know, the cylinder where it spins and the floor drops. That's a typical force. Now imagine being on the outside of that room that spins, right before the floor dropped, we'd get thrown off. Buoyancy and density, I don't know too much about, but I'm like a parrot and I repeat words and I heard. I heard Nick Thompson say it. So it's got to be true. You know what I mean? He's our father of the leader. Yeah. So I agree that buoyancy and density would solve a whole lot. That's not a problem at all. So I'll even give that in all matters where we're testing this like amateurs. Buoyancy and density could potentially explain basically everything, but that's not the problem because we're now talking about the big. Well, it's not the problem. It's the solution. It's not a problem. It all works. Magnetism works. Yeah. So scale. Scale is needed here. Yeah. So on the globe model, that's still the case. That's the reason why helium goes up. So we don't. We don't. We're too small to see it, right? Well, I could, but that's not this point. We observe everything. We were not too small to see it. That's not fair to say. You're saying the curvature or the different things you say, we're too small to see it. It's just too big on the scale of Earth. We as little humans just can't see it. No, we can. We can observe it quite well, actually. Again, Toronto, you can watch it disappear. The sunset, you can watch the sun go below the horizon and you can have a drone 1,000 feet in the air and look at your screen and still see the sun. That's proof of angular light over a curved surface. So those things are observable. We're not too small to see them. We're not. We're pretty smart creatures, actually. So Lance, you asked about the rivers. So do you totally dismiss the gravity kind of explanation? Or what? Yeah. I saw this in a sixth grade science experiment where you've got a potato, you've got a bottle cap, you've got a piece of steel, and then it's got different layers of water. So the top one would be like motor oil or dish soap. And then you've got all of these things, and you've got just products suspended all throughout these different columns of fluid. And it's like, OK, so why don't the boats? Why don't these cruise liners sink? I mean, just gravity doesn't make any sense. It just picks. It's so smart, like the dew on the leaves in the morning.  You cannot water. You can't represent water on a small scale compared to a big scale. But in this case, you could.  Yes, why you could. So that that is why you also would say that the boat actually floats. And why you would just agree with that. It might totally totally sense. Yeah. Hey, when you get when you get into a pool, Lance, you're bullying, you become buoyant with that.  You have air in your lungs. You float. So that's a simple experiment that you've done your whole right. Even a piece of driftwood, though. I mean, it doesn't matter what it is, like a duck on the surface, you know, anything like gravity, throw it out. It's all density and buoyancy. Everything. And magnetism and centrifugal force. Yes, on this, on this scale, that's correct. That's not a problem. We're not. You know, we're too small. We're too small to see it. You know, it's too big for us to see, right? No, you're so where it would come into the question is when you are speaking of, for instance, the earth. That's where you would see that it goes all around the center. I got another one. I come at this from a Christian point of view. I didn't wake up to the flat earth at first with it being in the Bible. But once I realized it was, I was like, oh, dude, I can't I can't believe that organized religion has hot hidden this so well. And so it's it's just like, I don't know that that to me was like, pretty crazy deal. It's a belief. It's a belief. Well, I mean, it's more than that. But it's what you actually can observe. Test and repeat the observation. I mean, I know when we've given you examples of things you can test and observe that and do it, please do it and bring those results to me and show me the earth is flat. And I'm I'm on board. So this is so we've given you examples of how to do it. I give you the example with Toronto and Lake Superior. You can do that. You could fly from the tip of South America and Chile. To Australia, if it takes you 24 hours to get there and you fly over North America, the earth is flat. If not, the earth is round. It's a globe. Well, there is this ground and flat for the first time. No, you've got to stop calling me out on those semantics, man. Like, that's not that's not fair. And so you're doing very cheap rhetorical points. But there's no there's no substance to those pointers. Yeah. So, bro, Lance, go take a flight from Chile to New Zealand. If it takes 10 hours, the earth is round. If it takes 24 hours, the earth is flat. And guess what? You could take pictures outside of the plane of North America as you pass over, you know, Texas and and, you know, Montana. But that's not the way it works. When you take a flight from from Chile to New Zealand, you don't pass over North America.  You don't go north like all the way to the other side of the globe. 24 hours later and had to make two stops for revealing. That doesn't happen. So that's a real world experiment that you could try yourself and prove to me the earth is flat, because you made it. Have you made it and round? Or have you ever been in a flat? I'm just saying, you know, again, man, man, words are important, bro. Yes, words are important. I'll follow what words mean. And we're going to be like little kids who are on the Internet nowadays and they're like, I woke up today and I literally felt like getting a bowl of Cheerios. So the word literally doesn't mean literally anymore. I'm just saying, you know, what we can do is leave and Lance. If we could do one last brief interchange just because we haven't heard from you guys too much. If you have anything you want to add, we're open to it where we can hear from the first and then Lance last before we go into the Q and a want to remind you folks that our guests are linked in the description. Whether you're listening via YouTube or if you were listening via the podcast for modern day debate, we put our guest links in there as well. And so leave the floor as all yours if you had any concluding points. And then like I said, we'll take it over to Lance before the Q and a. Yeah, so so I would just reiterate the point that I made four points today. And I would really like for someone to reach out to me afterwards and really explain how this could possibly work on Flat Earth. I made four today. Last time I was here, January 31st, I made seven. I would hope someone could explain how those seven points would work, because to me, they seem not only to not work on a flat earth, but to actually point, if not directly, then very closely to a spheroid earth, an oblate spheroid that's pear shaped and is kind of like. We do. So I didn't say that. I say somewhat spheroid. I did want it just to be sure. Lance got a chance to respond. Lance, did you have any thoughts, Lance, before you go in? Yeah, sure. I would just say, you know, this wasn't it wasn't something I wanted to even wake up to. I woke up, I would say, in sixth grade, whenever the teacher was telling us about AIDS and the government, just it just was a disease that appeared. But yet they were the experts on everything. Then then fast forward, I found out about the moon landings, you know, all of the stage phony, weird stuff that didn't add up. 9-11, I mean, everything that they tell us is a lie. So it's like it took me. It was like one of the last things that I wanted to like look at. And it just so happened to come across my feed on YouTube. But and and I'm like, OK, so I watched the documentary. I'm like, oh, my gosh, this is crazy. Like it's just it's just so weird that it took me so long to get there. But knowing that everything else that they tell us is our currency is a lie. I mean, they print the money out of thin air. There's every single thing. The disease is all the coronavirus. Even the war on track, we do just because you are making a lot of claims with nobody able to rebut since we're going to go into the Q&A. We want to keep it on topic. And it just level with them, bro. You know what I mean? You just got to level with these guys, bro. Yeah, I hear you. I hear I am I'm glad to be on your team. And you made a lot of good points. And I do. I just want to say amen, amen the whole time, because you're hitting the nail on the head. And they gave us an article and they gave us gravity. So I think we want it. Look me up on YouTube, baby. Flatter Day Saints, I just started my channel. So that's it. So we're going to the Q&A. So we do want to say thanks, everybody, for your questions. And we are excited as we have many more juicy epic debates coming up. So, folks, if you aren't subscribed, subscribe now and hit that notification button as well, as we have a lot of juicy ones coming up. This month is going to be action packed. Seriously, you guys, we are really excited about that. And so first one coming from Sigma. And he says, hi, James. Hi, Sigma. Good to see you again. Says, all what's a developable surface, quote, unquote, with respect to maps? What does that tell us about what maps actually are? Does anybody know what a quote, unquote, developable surface is? I think it's a picture that hasn't been developed yet in the camera before the digital. Rory Bjorkman, thank you for your thumbs up. Appreciate your support. Ozzie, I'm good to see you. It says if you have $5,000, you too can travel to Antarctica. Go to AntarcticaLife.com and book your trip to the hidden lands. Thank you very much, Ozzie. In a world RT 96 says these people. Let's see. OK, gotcha. Looking.  We want you to attack the arguments rather than the people. We appreciate our guests, Sigma. And he says, if satellites are really weather balloons, why can we measure the Doppler shift in their radio signals? If your answer is, quote, it's programmed in, unquote, why does that shift change with the observer's location? Who's that question to him? Because I'll answer if you want. I think it's for you. OK, so just real quick, he said, why can't we measure it? Like I said, you know, we didn't go to the moon and we didn't win the Super Bowl. So I don't know why you can't measure it. I can't because I never have. And I don't think I have the capability to, although I'm going to look into a good point. Gotcha. Thanks for your sincerity. And Sigma, and he says, if Harp, H-A-A-R-P is used to control weather, why can the weather reporters never tell us when it's going to hail Satan? Whoa. Next.  That's all I got to say. Oh, my God. That was hilarious. Next up, Rory Norgman says, can the Flat Earthers explain volcanoes if the earth is flat? Where is lava coming from? Go, Globers. Probably from hell. We've only. Yeah, I mean, we've only drilled eight miles down, but they can't. They want to tell us that they got crust, mantle core, all of this stuff.  Gotcha. I think I made a mistake with Sigma and he's question. They said, I don't exactly know what your correction was for Sigma and he's. So you say, what does that tell us about what maps actually are? What super chat did you want me to correctly change for you? Let me know. But Fox Tashi Kata, thank you for your question, says, Satan wants you to have money so you guys don't have to live in your. Let's see. OK. And they gave six dollars and sixty six cents. Is it possible that these people? Wow. I don't know. Flatter Day lands. What are your thoughts? What's the question? You'd be the one, bro. I think that they're just trying to tease you. Big thing, Bruce Wayne says, if FDS is scared of sixes and nines and elevens, why not convert to the metric system? Boom. No more. One second. They said, I was I was born on the 33rd day of the year, bro. OK, I'm muting you for a second. So so they OK, you're still on mute. They can't I'm trying to read the question. OK, still trying to read the question. So the question in its entirety was, though, if they said if FDS is scared and sixes and so FDS would be Flatter Day Saint, by the way, folks, if you're wondering, is that if FDS is scared of sixes and nines and elevens, why not convert to the metric system? Boom. No more satanic numbers. You'd have different numbers for measurements. The to answer your question, bro, I'm not scared of sixes, nines or elevens. I was born on the three hundred thirty third day of the year. I've been anointed by God to spread the good news. So if I was scared of something, I wouldn't go exposing it. It's quite the opposite. Right. I'm not scared of it. I expose it, bro. Knowledge. Knowledge gives you power whenever you look into this. It's like we don't have to be fearful about anything. But the six six six is just six atoms of carbon, you know, six electrons, six neutrons. It's nothing to be scared of. Gotcha. And this question I like what I like. I also like what Whitsett said. The only other time six six six is in the Bible is when they were talking about Solomon and the amount of gold that they brought him. That was a very interesting point. Plus, man is created on the sixth day. He falls one short of completion. Something to look into. I don't know. I'm just saying, though, don't shoot the messengers. OK, one. So, Sigman, going back to their question, I think I said it wrong and I do want to give give him like his full credit for what he actually asked. He said, if satellites are really weather balloons, why can we measure the Doppler shift in their radio signals? Is that to me? Yes. Well, like I said before, we didn't win the Super Bowl and we didn't go to the moon. So I don't know why we can't measure it. I don't know why you can't measure it, bro. I haven't measured it, so I'm not going to speak on something I don't know. But why don't you just Google weather modification patents and see the 43 pages dating back from the 1800s about how they can control the rain, how they can make tornadoes, yada, yada, yada.  Google it, bro. Don't take my word for it, please. Thank you. Sigman, he says driving in a car at 100 miles per hour, trees zipping by, but mountains in the distance don't appear to move. How does that work? Could stars be farther away? Is this to me, too? Yes. In a world where level doesn't mean flat. I mean, I think the stars are very close. Let me give you a little quick example. Imagine you're an adult. Imagine you're in an igloo. You know what I mean? It's funny how they put the igloos in Antarctica, but imagine you're in an igloo and you take a flashlight and you shine it at the wall, right?  And as you bring that up and further away, the beam gets smaller and brighter, kind of like the sun. So they say the sun is 93 million miles away. Is that when it's rising and setting or when it's overhead? Because it's like one third the size overhead. I'm just saying, though, that's the one night and one night's cold. Mike Billers says for our Flat Earthers, how does an equatorial mount telescope work on a flat earth? I don't even know what that is. So you can go ahead and glance if you want. Thank you. Yeah, I don't know. I'm serious. And Toby says, James, why do you do this weird thing with your mouth? I do a lot of weird things with my mouth, like grinding my teeth. I am like working really hard at not grinding my teeth. But Mike Billers, thanks for your questions. I don't listen to Toby, James. You can do anything you want with your mouth. Thank you very much. Magellan, thanks for your superchess. James, I know why your mouth does that. Because you're spinning 1,000 miles per hour, bro, on a ball. I mean, we're lucky our teeth don't turn into powder, bro. You know what I mean? Thank you for that encouragement. Magellan, thank you. He says, James, can you ask Flatter Day to stop moving?  Let's see.  OK, well, I didn't even notice it. Next up, Zygmunt, he says, as an earth measurement professional, I was going to ask that arc to cord question from the last Flatterers debate, but I'm OK. Carry on. Thank you. Mike Billers says, Flat Earth Day Saint. I made a GPS receiver software and hardware for my senior design project. It used globe equations.  Hey, bro, I'm totally down for that challenge. You know, look me up on YouTube, Flatter Day Saint, Flat Earth Day Saint at gmail.com in the world where level doesn't mean flat. You were discretion advised. Each one separately for where prohibited. Thank you very much. Mike Billers for your other questions at Lance. Yeah, my GPS software had to use speed of light to and general relativity. Is that that equals to square stuff? OK, I'll let if. If either of our guests, Leaf. Leaf, I'm pronouncing your name right. Nice. Oh, life, brother, I'm sorry, man. I've been calling you leaf like nonstop. I'm sorry, man. Oh, thanks for your graciousness life. I'll either if life or Pat, if you guys remember how this would apply, namely how general relativity would apply in this case, what the kind of point being made is I'll give you a chance. I frankly, I have to be honest. I can't remember. I'm struggling to be honest. It's been a long day. OK, life. Go ahead. So general relativity in in regards to satellites or they had said in regards to their GPS, they said my GPS software had to use speed of light to and general relativity. I think just in regards to reality, yes, that that would be what we would say. Also, yeah, yeah. Got you. And thank you for your question. So Facebook sensors blasphemy now in atheist groups. Does that make atheism true? Why censor atheism? If it's not right, then I think this is for you, Lance. Yeah, that's a good point, huh? That's weird. I mean, I didn't know because I'm not in any in any atheist groups to see that it's getting squashed. But maybe they're just trying to, I don't know what it's like. What else is in that group? You know, I'm more. Yeah. Gotcha. And Ozzie and we got that. Mike, Bill, our thanks for your questions. I hiked Black Elk Peak, which is 7,200 feet in elevation in South Dakota. I saw Devil's Tower in Wyoming, which is 5,000 feet. And I couldn't see Mount Albert in Colorado, which is 14,000 feet. I know why, but do you know why? There's a place in the Great Smoky Mountains that you can see seven states from one lookout point. And I know why it's because of the Earth's flat. Gotcha, Mike. Sigman, he says actual applause for Pat's approach to discussion, regardless of the manner. Let's see. So they they like your congenial and respectful approach, Pat. I think that's what they're saying. You got to give them a pat on the back for that one. Next up, Harman Walker says, life, if you are sincere, I can help with 24 hour sun in Antarctica. OK, great. I'd like to hear that. Juicy and Soldier of Science said, Friday, Saint, you are an anti masquer, vaxxer and anti critical thinker and marketer of things which cause damage to society. Is this true? Guilty is charged, sir. You should check out my channel, bro. I don't even wear shoes in the grocery store, let alone a mask. They're lucky I can wear pants in a shirt, bro. You know what I'm saying? Check out my channel, bro. Flatter day sinks, baby. We're just glass smacking and having a good time. Yeah, I'm if I could opine on that real quick. He drew is not a danger to society. That's absurd. Juicy and thank you for your question. This one coming in from Denman. Denman Fight says question for Flat Earthers. If gas density explains falling objects on Earth, why do objects fall down in sealed vacuums? Well, I got one. Well, I've never tried. Go ahead, Glenn. Yeah, we're supposed to be. How do you have a vacuum, you know, with with space? Infinite space is out here, but yet we're supposed to be a closed system. So what they tell us would not it doesn't work like. Yeah, anything you want to add, Flatter. Yeah, gas is isotropic, meaning if you guys ever seen the Red Hot Chili Peppers logo going in all directions at once, gas doesn't when you see an explosion just doesn't go down or left or right. It goes in all directions at once. And we're next to the vacuum of space without a closed container. And it doesn't work. I mean, I've heard other Flatter, they say violates a second law of thermodynamics. I don't know anything about thermodynamics, so I'm not going to speak on that.  And I couldn't say yes or no. But I do know one thing is, though, that I make organic and I make molds and out of resin and I use a vacuum chamber and I use pressure chambers. And as far as anything more goes with vacuum and pressure chambers, I just don't know if I can speak on it. But, you know, if you have me on this thing again, I guarantee you I'll look into it and I'll have a better answer than I had. At least you're honest. Got you. Bob, gyroscope says, I've measured rotation. It's 15 degrees per hour. So Nathan Thompson said that it you're not. He just I'm just quoting he says the person who invented that actually said it's the vortex of the ether, not the earth moving. I don't know I can't speak on it. But that what he said makes sense to me. I'm going to look into that. And if I have a better answer and James allows me to come back on this show, then hopefully I have a better answer for you. Juicy. In fact, they even offer. They say Bob's gyroscope does a follow up super chat saying I'll debate either one of these flatties. Well, maybe we will do that, folks. And I'll debate anybody, anytime, anywhere. And I'll even use my own money to debate you. I won't charge you to debate. I'll pay you to debate you because, like I said, I don't care if you win the debate or not. And I know I'm going to be on Irish demon later criticizing what I say. Or maybe I'll be on fight the flat nerd or maybe team skeptic who's always trying to fight people. By the way, team skeptic, let the violence go, bro.  So by the way, by the way he mentions. Yeah, fight the flat earth is looking for a flat earth debate. I don't know if you've already debated them. But I never have, bro. Where are you at? You know, I can assure you I'm right here. Probably be up for it. I can reach out to him. But yeah, thank you for your question, Bob. Gyroscope says I'll debate. Oh, wait. Schromger, hopefully I pronounced that right. Says objects blur when you're traveling closer to them. But as you move farther away, they seem to move slower across your field of vision. Does this undo your roller coaster slash basketball analogy? You repeat the question again. I'm sorry. They said objects blur when you're traveling closer to them. But as you move farther away, they seem to move slower across your field of vision. Does this undo your roller coaster slash basketball analogy? The fact that things appear more blurry as we rapidly approach them. But when we move away from them, they appear to move less. Or more slowly across your field of vision. Yeah, I don't. I'm sorry. No, it doesn't. I know it doesn't. And I'm yeah, answer that for him, please, bro. I had to move out of the bathroom. So please, in the bathroom. OK, so so you got the ball, right? You got your ball. It's going through space, right? If you're if you got your stars that are around here, they're going to have to be moving at a faster rate of speed and a slower rate of speed throughout their orbital of the supposed globe Earth. So it doesn't none of that makes any sense. Like you can't have we're chasing the sun. And then we see the same constellation and all the stars for thousands of years that they saw back way, way, way. And they made a pyramid. So all of that look into that, you can't the speed of the stars are not changing to catch up with the Earth as it's coming around. Like it just doesn't make any sense. Next question. Next one coming in from Lockbeard. He said deflections and semantics from the flatties. If life has never been to Chile is a point, you can't make claims about Antarctica either where you've never been. We're not allowed to go.  And then you still have.  Next up and recocculate and recocculates. To be. Yeah. See. Jelon says, I feel sorry. Let's see. Wait a minute. I'm confused. What does inebriated mean? They say I feel sorry for life. He's the only one not. I'm OK. I am. You guys, you're super chats. I honestly don't understand these sometimes, but we do want to say thank you very much. We I think I had a couple of standard questions that somebody people had put in the chat. I want to read as quick as I can. John Rapid asked question for both sides. Why do two people north and south of the south of the equator simultaneously see the same face, size, shape and phase of the moon? They don't. I mean, that's that's not an accurate question. Like you're here. That's that's not a thing. Gotcha. Well, I've seen videos of, well, you know, OK, suppose it like you've got someone like a friend on the phone and one guy's in Australia and the other guys over there. If you plowed it out, plot it out on a flat earth, what we have our model that we think it makes total sense. The man in the moon's face is just upside. You know, you're like, OK, you're it's the observation point. Right, gotcha. And Tim Pryor thinks your question said you can literally book trips to Antarctica. You guys don't research this, do you? Yeah, if you want to go down there and be a chef, you can go do that. He said he said you can literally book trips. Yeah. How about metaphorically, theoretically and hypothetically? I'm just saying, though. Gotcha.  And so want to say, folks, our guests are linked in the description. We appreciate our guests. And so we want to encourage you as always if you would attack their arguments instead of the people as we do appreciate these guys being here with us tonight and want to let you know, I'll be back in just a moment to give a post credit scene kind of update on upcoming debates. And also, if you saw last night's epic debate, which was honestly one for the record books, I'll explain what was going on last night as well and how we're going to do something close to what you saw last night in the future. And so Shrommer, Shrommer, Shrommer, Jr., let me know, says, how do we know that James exists and isn't CGI? I can answer that. We don't. We don't. We don't. Very juicy. So thank you, folks.  So I will email Craig and I'll look at my chops, bro. I will look at my job willing. But Nicolai says, is the real issue a failure to trust experts in in their fields? Or should we be worried about exponential scientific literacy drop? Who's that question to? I don't know. Whoever wants to answer can. I'd say the real issue is that it is Photoshop, but it has to be. What you're seeing is a mirage. That's the real issue. I just don't like being lied to, bro. You know, the real issue is that if I observe the earth zipping and turning and I observe water, bending and everything, I wouldn't be a flat earth. Straight up. Yeah. And I'm just trying to level. Yeah, I would ask that person. Yeah, I would ask them if they believe that we just Big Bang got a nothing and did we come from monkeys? They just came from a little primordial soup of cells or whatever. It's like, OK. Yeah, the only the only soup I witness is the soup kitchen in the sky when they spray every day, bro. Get your spoons ready, guys. Thank you. And thank you, everybody, for hanging out with us. Please do hit that subscribe button and that notification button as well as we have many juicy upcoming debates, such as, for example, perhaps Flatter Day Saint and Fight the Flat Earth. Who knows that may happen. And so you don't want to miss that one live folks want to say thanks everybody for hanging out with us. And one last thank you. We appreciate you, Pat, life, lands and Flatter Day Saint. It has been a true pleasure to have you guys. Thank you. Hey, thanks. I'm truly honored. Awesome. Absolutely. The honor is all ours. And so thank you, guys. And we will be back in just a moment or I'll be back in just a moment, folks, with that post credits scene, letting you know about upcoming juicy events. And so stick around for that. Thanks. Can I give one shot out?  Yes. And we also have another super chat that came in from Jason Day. Jason, I totally he's a great debate. I'm not going to read the rest because he wants me to say something very dirty. But what was your shout out that you wanted to do? If ODD is watching this, I respect your music, bro. You're my favorite rapper, let alone Flat Earth rapper in the whole flat world. Look up my YouTube channel or you could email me at flatterdaystainsatgmail.com. And I've been writing rap music and I mean, I think I'm pretty good. And my mom thinks I'm pretty good, too. So, bro, if you could just give me one chance, bro, to put one of my one of my verses on one of your albums, bro. You know, if you don't, I understand you're you're you're at the top of the pyramid when it comes to Flat Earth rappers. I think you and Steve Grant are hands down the best there is. So that's all I got to say that there's a genre of Flat Earth rappers. That's very interesting. So I will have to buy an ODD TV cartoon ball that kills it. He is so good. I got Globers going down that guy's a good rapper. Interesting to say the least. I'm just saying, though. We'll be back in a moment or I'll be back in a moment, folks. Thanks so much to our guests and thanks for hanging out with us. Be right back. One to say the least. And if it's your first time here, I'm curious, are there any first timers I like asking, is there anyone in the chat who right now you're like, what? Modern day debate, a neutral platform for debates on science, religion and politics. I've never heard of it. This is my first time here. Let me know. I just get a kick out of like learning if that's the case. And so we are so excited you were here. Thanks, everybody. Oh, thanks for your I love getting to say hi to you, reading the chat and just saying hello, make it simple says that thumbnail lol. Thank you.  Man, I'm a huge Mortal Kombat fan. I'm behind on the games. I'm like when I was young, I was like big on it and I still like watch what I can in terms of like the up like the new games that come out. They look awesome, but I'm not an expert on it by any means. I want you to know that, but I am definitely like an old school fan. And so, yes, Mortal Kombat really fun game. And so thanks everybody for being here. They'll want to say hi. Soldier of Science. Good to see you trillion. Thanks for being with us as well. And Heat Shield. Good to see you again. Thanks for moderating last night. And Matthew Dawson. Good to see you. Metal jacket. Glad you're here again. Ross Thatcher. Glad you are here. And reality parody. Thanks for coming by. And Manic Panda is good to see you again as well as Clinton Roche. Top Hot 2. Good to see you again. And Lockbeard says, first timer came here to support Pat. Oh, wow. Well, that's cool. Lockbeard, thanks for being with us. We're glad you're here. And welcome. We hope you feel welcome no matter what side you happen to be on.  But like I said, we want everybody to feel welcome, folks. If you're a flat earth or we really do welcome you. Like we're not going to. I try really hard to be like, we're not going to do videos that take a side on anything. And we're not going to. We want to have everybody when they come on. And even when they're in the audience, we want them to say, oh, I feel like my side was treated fairly. That's our goal here at Moderne Debate. And a spider. Thanks for being with us. And Matt Forrest, glad you're here. And yeah, you guys, I'm pumped, though. And upcoming debates. Got to tell you some sweet stuff. Oh, Matt Forrest, as I saw Mortal Kombat in the theater when I was like 10. That's awesome. Yeah, I think that's about my age. I feel like, because what was it? I think the first Mortal Kombat was like 19. Had to be 90s, right? 98, maybe? But it was epic. I loved it. And so yeah, back then I was a huge movie theater goer. And so I used to go to the movie theaters as a kid, nonstop. But yeah, thanks, Joe Smash. Rad, thanks for being with us. He says, first time viewer, I'm friends with Lance on Facebook, and he posted the link. Well, we're glad you're here, Joe. Thanks for coming by. Welcome. And yeah, we do regular debates here all the time. And so if you love debates on science, religion, politics, like, I hope you guys find it fun. And so Kirk Wilson, thanks for being with us. And let's see. Yeah, I'm pumped, though, you guys. It's honestly, it's just fun. I enjoy this so much. You have no idea. Joe Smat, what was it? No, no, no. 15 degrees per hour. Says, thanks, Bob. I don't know who Bob, which Bob. But thank you guys for being with us. Trillian Spartan Theology. Good to see you. He says, howdy. Thanks for your super chat. This one just came in from Alex Shannon, who said, thanks for providing so much content. Where's the next debate on veganism happening? Or when is it happening? Thanks for your kind words, and you're very welcome. Like, honestly, it's so fun to be here. And thanks for your support of the channel. That means a lot. We might have one this coming Saturday. Maybe. I'm talking to Ask Yourself and Avi. And so that could be awesome if Dr. Avi and Ask Yourself come on for one. And so I don't know for sure. That's not guaranteed, because it might be a political topic, too. So bear with me, but I'm sure we're going to have one this month. And so we've had a good amount lately. And so, but it's, yeah, those are probably the next two guys we would have or the next two people they should say that we'd have on who would be defending veganism. So that should be a good one. And so Master Optics, good to see you. Says, finish that like button. I couldn't agree more. Thank you for that. And so we do appreciate that support. Let's see. Sigman, he says, sneaking out. Much love. Thanks. And sorry for making you read some of those chats. That's funny. Thanks for coming by. We're glad you came by, man. And I hope you have a great rest of your night. And Soldier of Science is good to see you. I have been literally wondering if I go into T-Jumps Q&A tomorrow, discussing what we did last week. It is literally the hardest thing I have explored. I'm not sure what you mean. Let's say I've been literally wondering if I go into T-Jumps Q&A tomorrow, discussing what we did last week. I can't remember. You mean like the, I don't know what you're talking about what we did last week. You got to update me. I'm a little slow right now. I'm like pretty tired. Wow, it was 95. Matt Force said is when Mortal Kombat came out. Well, maybe it was number two that came out in 98 then. But yeah, it's Mortal Kombat Annihilation. I remember that. Rich Havas, good to see you again. Thanks for your kind words. And that means a lot. I appreciate your encouragement. And so yeah, Nikolai, good to see you. And Leonidas Zamora, thanks for being with us, said it's my birthday and the earth is flat. I am so happy for your birthday. Happy birthday, my friend. We're glad you were here. We hope you're well. And I hope it's a great birthday. Hopefully this is fun. Greta Garbage says what I, oh, this is talking to someone else, but we're glad you're here. Greta, thanks for coming by. And Pastel Persephone, good to see you under that new username. And Josh Jackson, glad you're here. And Ross Thatcher, who he is apparently preparing his most recent swimsuit edition calendar. This is gonna be epic, you guys. Flat Earth Aussie is gonna send this out.  You don't wanna miss this. So big thank Bruce Wayne. I think you're gonna be pleased. Soldier of Sciences, it was race and intelligence. I have been researching it and it's definitely the taboo of all talks. Oh yeah, it is, yeah. That's one that, yeah, I'm a little bit nervous about hosting that one even on modern day debate. Because it is taboo. Saboor Chaudhary, thanks for being with us. Says, my first time watching this live, thank you for doing juicy topics. Thanks for your kind words. Thank you so much, I love it, juicy indeed.   Yeah, let me show you, because I forgot to show you. So on the bottom right of your screen, this coming Monday, you guys, this guy right here, Tom Jump, will be his position in atheism or I should say his position in the debate is he is an atheist, so he'll be debating on behalf of atheism and he'll be debating a Hindu guest. I got Arjuna, I think is his name. So that should be an interesting one. That is coming up this Monday and then we're trying to schedule. It's not confirmed yet. I've got to double, I've got to like actually confirm it with both sides. Hopefully, Erica and Mr. Batman on Wednesday and so that should be definitely epic and so we hope you guys don't miss that. You're gonna wanna make sure you don't wanna miss that and so, oh, top hot too, I didn't even know. Sorry, I'm behind on the Twitch chat. They said big gift subs in the Twitch chat. Shout out to Ozzie and thank you Ozzie and so much. Let's see, I'm so slow, let's see. Where, let's see. I'm looking, well, Ozzie, we just appreciate your support, seriously. It means so much and so let's see. Ivan, naive, thank you for being with us. See, I see you there in the old Twitch chat. Says you should do a debate on Mormonism versus the CES letter. What is the CES letter? That's new to me. Memphisuga, thanks for being with us. I see you in the Twitch chat as well and oh man, I'm so sorry, I missed the gift subs from Ozzie and is it like, can you guys help me understand? I don't know if you guys see the same thing that I do. Thank you so much Ozzie and though for your support in Twitch. Seriously, it means more than you know and oh, you gave cheers. Thank you, weekly top cheers. Ms. Metal, 29, thanks so much and Ozzie and 100, thank you guys so much for your support. Seriously, we really do appreciate it and weekly top gifters, top, top, topotsel. Thank you so much for your gift and then five from Ozzie and five from Brooks Barrow. Thank you so much for your support. Seriously, that really means more than you know. You guys are honestly so kind and so thank you guys and oh wait, where did I, there's the chat. Sometimes I'm like, but yes, let's see. All right, I'm almost caught up in the old Twitch chat. How do I, let's see this thing, there's this picture here. I don't know, like how do I, oh there it goes. Okay, but yes, thank you so much. I seriously do appreciate your guys' support and thank you, Afir says last night was painful. Have you heard back from Matt? Let's see, I have to tell you guys, I'm, I can't guarantee it, but I, we're gonna reach out to Matt.  And so my thought is he's right, like we wanna get rid of any of that stuff in the chat. And so long story short, you know, I said, Matt, I'm sorry about the chat and you know, if you wanna come on, the door's always open, we're happy to have you back, but if you don't, we understand that, like we can't blame you. And so Matt said, well, you know, like let me know what your next debate is, what you have in mind and I'll think about it. And so Matt isn't fully closed to coming on. He's, you know, like we had a conversation that went well and so long story short, I would be surprised if you didn't see Matt Dilla-Hunty on the show again. I think that we'll be able to work something out. And that's something that we've already been working on is working on cleaning out that 1% of the chat who likes to slander people. Like I said, thank you all for being reasonable and kind or at least not slandering or unreasonable just because those people who are troublemakers get way more attention than they deserve and it's because they're causing trouble. So we wanna acknowledge that most people are not like that. And Mitch 13, thanks for being with us. I see you there in the old chat. And so Archaeoraptor X, thanks for coming with us or being with us, glad you're here. And where did I see? Daryl Frost, good to see you. Sideshow Nav, this is Tom's chair, definitely exists. Yes, he's got quite the chair. There's no, nobody can deny that. And so yeah, we are excited though. Oh, Chris Gammon said, if Matt comes back on MDD, I'll be there moderating as best as I can. Thanks Chris, we appreciate that. And so yeah, we appreciate you guys. Thank you guys for moderating.  We don't want anything that's against the terms of service. And some people are like, what? Well, like you should be like a rebel and break the rules. Go against the terms of service. And it's like, why would we cut off the branch that we're sitting on? Like this is like the, first of all, YouTube and Twitch do a great job of promoting our content. Like they share it with people. Like we got from the debate that we hosted last night, probably like 200 new subs since yesterday. And that's because YouTube recommends our videos. Like that's really helpful. So for me, it's like, we do think that's like pretty practical just to follow the terms of service. And so Leonidas Zamora says, any future debates about Hollow Earth? Maybe, I don't know. We haven't tried it yet. Fight the Flat Earth might like that topic. So we might have to ask them if you dig it. That could be cool. But yeah, long story short, you might be wondering what happened last night? What was going on? That was something different. It was, what happened was for two months, Dylan Burns had been setting up this debate, reaching out to speakers, planning out the format, all that good stuff. And what he did is that was like last night, if you saw it, it was like 12 different people in that epic debate. By the way, Dr. Hu in Deeds of Legend, I see you there in the chat and we appreciate you being with us. Oh, we hope you're doing well. Thanks so much. And so long story short, we had like a lot of epic, like last night we were just epic, or not epic, we're happy. Thank you Ozzie and for being so generous to all of the other people as well, like all the other people that you gifted subs to. So thanks so much for being just a generous person. And Brooks Barrow, thanks for your love in the Twitch chat as well. It seriously means a lot. So long story short though folks, what I was saying is that last night, that epic event with, I mean, you guys, that was like, you guys, that was monstrous. Like we had actual Justice Warrior, Hunter Avalon, Tyler Bluntman, Shuwon Head. That was, I mean, that's just some of the, you could say YouTube like debate stars or heavyweights that were there. It was epic. And so I wanna let you know folks, YouTube does help us a lot. And so that's the only thing. And so we do really appreciate YouTube. And so let's see. Sideshow Nav says last night was most excellent. Yeah, it was a blast. So long story short though, we have to let you know we, the format was different. Everything about it was different. You could tell that I was like, basically like the co-pilot and that would be like maybe even overstating it. I was like wanting to assist Dylan in that project or that event. I helped him basically get people, we reached out to people to get them into that debate. And so it was a really fun one. And so it was a different format and stuff. And so, you know, that's just the way it is, is that once in a while we're gonna do like a collaboration with Dylan. That's what I plan on in the future. And we appreciate him welcoming us because like I said, those were epic guests that we got to have on. And so that was a lot of fun, just really cool. And so we are really excited about the possibility of just, yeah, a lot of cool stuff, you guys. And so we do appreciate that. And let's see, I'm trying to think of, let me refocus. That was why it was different last night though. So in case you were wondering, I was very, I was uninvolved because it was kind of, you could say it was like Dylan's barbecue as Nicholas Cage had said in the movie Con Air, a hit 1990s classic. And if you'd ever seen Con Air, he tells Cyrus the virus, hey, this is your barbecue, man, and it tastes good. And so for me, that was like, whereas like I maybe would have done it a little, like differently, but like that, those are a lot of, there's a lot of subjective things where it's like, maybe I would have played a different song at the start or whatever. So like, that's just like subjective like things. And so long story short, we thought it was an epic event. It was awesome. And so, but that was why it was a little bit different from normal. And so end OXD, you better check it out. Honestly, it was seriously super cool. And so yeah, we are excited though. And so this channel will sometimes offend you, wanna let you know folks, we really, yeah, we're gonna keep hosting debate topics that will offend people. There are a lot of people, like you guys maybe would be surprised as a neutral platform and as a moderator, I used to have it easy.  But now we've grown and we have a lot of haters. They're usually at the extremes. So like any group, any position has its extreme people who are like, no, the people who oppose me don't even deserve a platform. They're immoral and they're, you know, this and that. And those people, those are usually the ones that hate us. We've got, and they're like in all sorts of groups, like, and I've got no apologies. The only thing is, yeah, it's just the way it is. So long story short, we will have more debates that offend you. And so not for that purpose, not to purposely offend you, but because we think that ideas are worth debating and some of them will be controversial. So you guys know that we had that recent one with Tom Jump and Jengles. We're going to have another one on that same topic probably before the end of the month with Tom Jump and another debater. And so it's the nature of the channel. It's the nature of modern day debate.  I'm telling you, subscribe, but realize that it's probably gonna stretch you. Like for real, there are probably going to be times where you're going to have to be like, okay, I'm not sure how you feel about this, but I do think it's where the growth is. I can tell you that I've been around debate for a long time, formal and informal and mostly informal, but I want to let you know that I think there's absolutely growth and kind of a hardening in a good way that comes along with it where you don't let it bother you as much. And so, and I think that's a good thing. And so, Ophir, thanks for your extremist fan nature of the channel. Thanks for being a fan and your support. So, but yeah, we're excited though, guys. I mean, it is true. Thanks for, I think somebody just said, Comrade Jerry said, channel is growing so fast. That is so true. It really is encouraging that like we've had, like we're very, you know, blessed. It's been a long run and it's been good. And it's been just, we haven't really slowed down much. Once in a while we have kind of like a slower month or something, but like it's just been really encouraging. So thank you guys. You guys make it awesome for real. You guys make it fun the more the merrier. Want to let you know about other upcoming debates? I am confirming. We might have a political debate on Friday, but I don't want to say too much because I haven't really like talked to the person about it. So, I don't want to get ahead of myself. But, and Oxtese says we need to risk offending people in order to have productive conversations. Says Jordan Peterson, even though I don't like him. Yeah, I think it is important to have productive conversations. And I think it is possible. I think tonight's debate, for example, was actually not a dumpster fire. People are like, oh, it's not possible to have a flat earth debate. That's not a dumpster fire. It's like, I don't know. I think tonight was actually like pretty respectful and huge credit to Pat because Pat regularly was trying to say, hey, like I'm not your enemy. I'm not trying to squash you. Like I'm trying to debate and challenge each other's ideas, but like I don't have any personal animosity. So, it's possible folks. Believe me, we did it tonight. We'll do it again. I'm confident of that. And so thanks Brooke Chavez for your support. Says we love MDD. Thanks CoffeeTroll. Says we well deserve James. Thanks for your kind words. Thanks for your support, you guys. We are excited and say, yeah, if you guys love this content, you want to support the channel, sharing it. Just sharing it on social media or maybe you have a friend who is interested in these topics, just like you are. If you haven't shared this channel with them and said, hey, you might like this or maybe just when you're on Twitter and retweeting us, that grassroots stuff really makes a difference to you guys for real. It's huge. And so thank you guys for your support in doing all that. And so we hope you have a great night and I'm excited to see you on Monday with this debate that you see in the bottom right of your screen. That's gonna be an epic one.  Thanks for your support of the podcast that we see so many downloads of the podcast and I'm so just super encouraging. So just want to let you know, are you aware that we do have the modern day debate podcast? Actually, well, this would be really interesting. I've got to see, is there anyone here who has not already, that you didn't already know? If you're, how about this? Let me know if you're a regular watcher and this is the first time that you are hearing about the podcast or learning about it, I should say. Like, is this the first time you're like, wait, wait, really modern day debate has a podcast where you put the debates? Thanks Megan, St. Anasas. I don't always approve people that get platform but I understand James's concept of a neutral platform. Appreciate that feedback, Megan. And then Chris Gammon says, become a Patreon supporter. That's true, that's an option. We do appreciate that support. And so that is also linked in the description and Brooke Chavez says, hit that like button. But yeah, let me know if you are, if this is the first time that you've learned or heard about our podcast, let me know. I'm actually curious, because I'm like, oh man, you guys, it's epic. I'm like super encouraged, because when I started it, I didn't know if people would use it. I was like, well, if they were watching it on YouTube, then how do I know that they would actually use the podcast that they'd watch it on there? And so I'm so encouraged. I'm like, hey, that's cool that people are actually using it because we can see the downloads. So let me know, let's see. Clinton Roche says, James is a pod person. We do have our debates on podcast, if that's what you mean by that. But yeah, I listen to podcasts myself. I love listening to podcasts, no joke. I usually listen to like two, there's like maybe two hours per podcast episode. I might listen to three a week. It's probably, some of you probably listen more than I do than more than that, but yeah, I just love it. It's fun while I'm taking a walk or I'm cooking, whatever else. And so if you don't have a favorite podcast app, I recommend podcast addict. That's a great one. And so if you've never, if you don't know which one to start with, it's a pretty intuitive one, pretty user friendly. And so hey, check it out. Herman Terson, so glad you were with us. Just saw you pop in in the live chat and then Twitch chat. Thanks for hanging out and thanks for your patience with me, as I know I'm slow to check the Twitch chat. I'm excited though that also, let me check. The Twitch is growing, which is cool. I think we were at like 700 and, no, not 700. Yesterday, I think we were like 420 something and now 434, which is encouraging that that's actually been useful to people. So people are enjoying the Twitch modern day debate account, which is cool and encouraging. So thank you guys for your support. You guys make this awesome. And just honestly, I hope you guys know how much it means. So thanks for your support, you guys. So thanks everybody. We love you guys. Keep sifting out the reasonable from the unreasonable. I'm excited about the future, you guys. So thank you guys so much for everything. And then Lee and I just, Samora says this is my first time watching live but watching regularly. Oh, that's cool. Well, I love it. And Matthew Dawson says, same, love some podcast. Oh yeah, I agree. Matthew Dawson says podcast while working out. Me too sometimes. Yeah, I like that. It's productive, double your productivity by listening to podcasts and learning. So you're both building your mind and your body while you're exercising. Even if you just take a walk, it's good for you. So thanks everybody for all of your support. Love you guys and excited about the future. And so keep sifting out the reasonable from the unreasonable. We'll be seeing you on Monday night. And so thanks everybody. That's the plan. And I'm excited. Love you guys. Take care.