Okay, salamu alaykum wa rahmatullahi wa barakatu.  Insha'Allah, this first session will be for sophomores and juniors, and we'll actually have the session until 4.30 p.m. Insha'Allah, we'll take a break at 3.35 for preparation for us here. We have a comma at 3.45. We'll come back and we'll finish our session. And so this session will go until 4.30, and the senior session will begin at 4.30 to 6.00 p.m. To introduce myself, my name is Kamran Jamil. I'm originally from San Diego, California. I'm currently at UC Berkeley in the School of Law as a graduate student, and I went to Harvard College for my undergraduates. So hopefully I can share some tips about the personal statement, about sort of my trajectory as well. And we have a very special guest here with me, my dear brother, Wenice. Salamu alaykum, my name is Wenice. I'm a current fourth year undergraduate student at UC Berkeley. I'm from just maybe 30 minutes from here in Brentwood, California. So I'm local, and I shall lower, excited to hopefully answer questions and help you out in both sessions. And can people in the back hear us? Okay. Oh, okay, great. Yeah, yeah, we'll put it in. Okay, so we'll do... So for the sophomores and juniors, Wenice and I really think that there's kind of four main things that it's important to focus on while you're in 10th grade or in your junior year. I think one of the most important ones is to find teachers you like and who really believe in you because the teacher recommendation letters are, they go a really long way because they go with your application to the different colleges. So I think for finding teachers you like, I think it's really important. You get, I think, two to three teacher recommendations. I think one of them should be from a teacher in a field you may be interested in pursuing further. So if you're interested in environmental science, having a chemistry or a biology teacher, writing your letter of rec can be really good. I had my history teacher writing my letter of recommendation because I was interested in pursuing social science. But the main idea with the teachers is finding someone who can really advocate for you and who can really be in the room sort of when you're applying with the people reviewing your applications who can really advocate and say, you know, this is a student, these are their qualities. And hopefully this is a teacher that you spend some time with after school learning from doing homework with. Maybe you have a project you're working with them on. For example, I did sort of science research projects through my school's science department. So one of my recommendation letters came from my biology teacher who was my advisor on those projects. Do you want to say anything about teachers? And then, because then the next one we'll do alternative routes and then our best practices. Great. So the next important thing for 10th graders and juniors we think is really taking classes that you enjoy. You know, APs and IB programs, they're quite vigorous but they can go really far. And it's really important if you can to try and take APs but the number one criteria should be taking electives and classes that you really like. So for example, I took art history in high school and I think that was a really important class for me because it added something unique to my application and it was sort of a genuine interest of mine that maybe a lot of other students didn't take. So it was really nice in that regard. I also took advanced religious studies at my school which was another elective course, an optional class. But it was also a way for me and sort of, I'll give the mic over to Anise after I finish kind of going through these so he can add in his take before we continue. Taking electives in your 11th and 12th year that you really enjoy I think is extremely meaningful.  Maybe you really love physics and maybe that leads you to doing extra physics classes or AP physics or something like of that nature and extra curricular wise. I think that's really meaningful. Which goes to the third point here. Finding one to two activities that are really meaningful to you. I think what's really important is to find activities that you yourself, like as students, you're really interested in. So for me, for example, I was part of something called the Human Rights Committee at my school where we did sort of after school, volunteering at a center close to our school for people who are recent refugees in San Diego County. The Human Rights Committee also did like activities on campus. But that was something I kind of really loved to do sort of, I didn't feel like I had to because my classmates were doing it. It was sort of something that I really loved doing. And so I think when I came to apply, it was part of my personal statement, which we'll talk about in a little bit.  Your activities can really build out who you are, I think, in ways that feel genuine to you. And then finally, completing the SAT, ACT. These are extremely hard tests from my experience. And I took the SAT in between my, what was it, junior year and sophomore year. So sorry, sophomore year and junior, I actually took it twice. So you can take these tests two or three times. So don't feel afraid about that. But, and we can kind of talk more about the SAT and ACT. But I'll give it to Ani's to give his take on like the four things, yeah. I think I'll come around, covered just about everything that I wanted to discuss, but there's a few things that I really wanted to mention, I guess, in general for the session too. You know, inshallah, our hope is to talk about some things, you know, bring up things, but a lot of it is kind of hitting the surface, you know, just making sure we talk about us, we're all on the same level, but definitely I think most learning comes from answering questions, from concerns, all that that you all have.  And then, inshallah, like after each slide or you know, at the end of our session too, we'll make sure to really answer questions. That's where we hope to kind of get into the details a little bit more, answer any concerns or pressing matters that anybody has.  Everyone isn't working hard in martial law, which is great, but it sometimes can be, it can feel easy to like, oh yeah, I have to take every AP classes available, I've got to do all that. So I think making sure that you know, like how much you're able to do, you don't take classes for the sake of, oh, like all my friends are taking this. Actually, I should take this too, because it feels like the right thing to do and making sure that you, I guess have that balance with activities or the classes that you do take. And it's important to take rigorous classes, but it's not the only part of the application. And then activities as well, the one other thing that, you know, Kamran mentioned, I want to reiterate, is that the, and we'll talk about like the essays and that part of it, but a lot of the essays are kind of, they're not really going to be asking you about your grades or about your test scores, they're really asking about you as a person and that a lot of times comes from the different volunteering you do, the activities, extracurricular, sports, performance groups you're in, you know, everything else. And so finding a few things that you really enjoy, that you really are passionate about helps, because, you know, it's a good time. You have it, you meet people that are like-minded and you enjoy it. Also, if you just look specifically at the college application process, like I know for me personally all, I think all four of my, like, at least for the UCS's, if we're looking at, all four of them were about extracurriculars or clubs or like sports that I played. And so it was all like extracurricular-wise and so I think keeping that, like obviously don't do something just because, oh, maybe I can write an essay about this, but that no doubt is like sometimes, you know, like just knowing the fact that most people's essays for the UCS especially, end up being like non, like they don't ask about your life story all the time or sometimes, you know, you can still mention it in there. So, inshallah, like finding things that are really passionate about can really help in that aspect of life. It gives you something to write about, something that kind of tells the admission committee's like, okay, this is a part of who I am.  I think that's a nice way to think of it. Yeah, absolutely. And then we'll look at, you know, for senior year inshallah, if you guys, they stick around for like the second half, we'll talk more directly about like the senior year part, but you know, of course, as you all know, you know, it's the personal statements, the essays or a lot of it, a lot of early applications are due October 31st, I know. And you know, some schools have like very specific deadlines as well for the UCs. It's in November, you know, end of November. And then a lot of privates in other schools are, you know, end of the year. So December 31st, that kind of gives you a timeline. I know some people start at least thinking about like school list essays, all that, like in the summer leading into this senior year, right, a majority of people don't start writing anything until like the semester or the school year starts in your August, September. And so I guess it's a nice thing, earlier the better, so at least thinking about like, oh, what schools are, what wants to apply to, even thinking about maybe what subjects do I like, what do I potentially want to major in, that's something we'll get into details about as we go into that last session. But just that's kind of the general timeline. And then it creates that second semester of your senior year in Charlotte, it's really just a waiting game, which is nice. You know, it's no work that really needs to be done for the most part. But that first semester of senior year really is, once the August, September starts, it's like really important to at least start thinking about writing the essays, start drafting things out. I know for me personally, it took a lot of drafts, like I wrote too much, had to cut back, all that.  But it's nice to make sure you give yourself enough time allotted to have people edit it, read over it, and then you're not feeling rushed. Oh, okay, and I guess that's, that's another nice thing, I guess, for talking timeline-wise, you know, I know a lot of the UCs aren't requiring the SAT, ACT, so if you're only applying to UCs and you're good there, but you know, other schools that still, I'm not sure exactly which school's still required, but I imagine they still are a decent bit out there, but I as well, I took my SAT the summer between my sophomore and junior year, I think right before my junior year, so I took it a little bit earlier, but I know most people take it between the junior and senior in that summer, or like during the school year. The summer worked for me, it was convenient, but I understand too, if you just wanna have your summer, be relaxing, like totally understandable, and it's a nice thing to have. But just again, if that is something that you're planning on taking, to plan it out and make sure, okay, I have, maybe my classes aren't gonna be as bad this year, okay, I'll take it then, and if not, you know, summer worked out nicely, you know, you were still able to have most of the summer, just maybe a couple hours a week sat down and got it done, so. And we wanted to at least spend a few seconds talking about, like, then no, I know a lot of you is applying to college, but we wanted to at least feel it wrong if we wouldn't at least discuss, like, what is alternative routes, we've just other ways to go about it, and I definitely, I imagine all of you are very well aware, especially in California, like the community college route works out very nicely, where you have, you know, especially for the UCs, I think all, I think six of the UCs, I think all except Berkeley, UCLA, and I think UC San Diego, they all, like, work with the TAG program as well, and TAG, I can't remember exactly what it stands for, Transfer Acceptance Guarantee, I think that's what it stands for, but I imagine all of you are familiar, but essentially, if you take the classes that require you have, like, the base GPA that they require, then your guaranteed admission, you can, like, choose a TAG to one school, so it's like Davis, UC Santa Barbara, Santa Cruz, Irvine, all these UCs, you can choose to TAG, and then at least you have, like, from community college, like a piece of mind, like, okay, I am, I'm good to go, inshallah, you know, I'll get into this one school at least, and I know, like, from my experience, as an undergrad at Berkeley, we have, like, many, many students that are transferring each year, sometimes after one year, but you know, most of the time, after two years at a community college, and they transfer into, you know, whatever, you know, all types of majors, electrical, engineering, computer science, it's like the most difficult majors at Berkeley to get into the transferring right in, and everything in between, English, environmental science, chemistry, biology, math, so we have, you know, really, like, a wide variety of mix, I think one thing we all wanted to make sure to talk about was to, it becomes, especially, like, I know in my, like, like, growing up to me, sometimes it becomes, like, stigmatized, you know, going to, going to, you know, community college first, and then transparent, so we wanted to make sure that that, like, was not the case, and it's really, like, a great route.  I mean, they had two years, or sometimes one year, of, like, okay, they're not in high school, they're a little independent, they have their own space, but they're still, okay, having, like, the comfort, a lot of them, they still were still at home, so, like, okay, they still have their base there. And the second thing we want to mention that, like, is, like, less or known is the Chesape, it's the California high school proficiency exam. I had a few fans, actually, that took it, and basically, it's, you know, it sounds exactly what it is, exactly what it sounds like.  You can, like, enroll full-time in a community college, and then be able to transfer to a, like, a four-year university, what would have been your freshman year of, essentially, saving two years, if that makes sense. You know, you apply at the end, you transfer at the end of your senior year, and you'd enter as, like, a transfer applicant at this, at, like, a four-year university. And so it's not for everyone, definitely, and it kind of rushes, it gets you through the process a little bit faster, but you at least wanted to make sure that everyone's aware of that, to look into it, if you feel like, you know, this might be something for you. Like, I had a friend, for example, that wanted to work at his, at his father's business. It was, like, more of an accounting business, so he was like, you know, I just want to get my degree and get out, like, as fast as possible, and so that's exactly what he did, you know, he took the Chesape in his sophomore year and he went through it, transferred, and then, you know, got it, got his degree two years earlier in Hamzul and now, you know, now he's working, so we wanted to at least mention it, both that and in the community college, right? They really, I, sorry, that was a little bit loud. Oh, if they're making, like, another version of it? Or they didn't have to go through it just fully? Oh, man, then I'm so sorry, I gave you guys dated information. We'll, shalom, I imagine there's something, I know all of my friends that have taken it, at least, like, people that are my age, they take it two, you know, three, four years ago, and so, inshallah, I will make sure to like, find out what exactly, I imagine there's something in the middle, something going on, so inshallah. So there's like an, like, an alternative almost. Okay, perfect, you know, thank you, thank you for. We can communicate with Mr. Maneer. Exactly, we'll make sure, inshallah, to get, you know, to get the right information to all of you and then update everyone, and inshallah, but thank you, thank you for mentioning that. It's 100% absolutely, I think I barely mentioned it, but I want to thank you for that too. It's like, if you're, like, California is the plan, then perfect, but you know, if you want the option to go out of state, then again, not the, probably not the best option, but you know, if it's like, you want to go to the CSUs or the UCs, then if it still is, you know, working in the same way that it did in the past, then inshallah, it's a solid option. So inshallah, we'll be, we'll, we'll talk about this side a little bit, we'll break for us, and then we'll continue and discuss it, but here, I guess, you know, again, we'll make sure to, after we come back from us here, for any questions that you guys have, or, but I think one thing, you know, in your, the first few years of high school, I was leading up, is just finding out, like you're, like, we wrote it here, it's finding, like, you're studying your learning method, and it sounds very cheesy, but definitely, it's something that has helped, and for me, I know, like, until I got to college, I don't think I properly, like, kind of honed down, like, how do I, how do I learn best? What's the best ways for me to learn? And so that, I think, trying things out, I don't know, some people are very, like, visual, they, like, you know, they want to make diagrams and then do that, some people, like, I know for me, it's very boring, but just looking at, you know, taking notes, writing stuff down, like, by hand, helps a lot for me, so just a more classic approach.  But I think just really, trying different things out, making sure, like, not studying the same way as ever in us, like, just, like, I remember, at least in university, I had the difficulty where people are always doing study groups, which is very helpful, but for me, I remember, I realized that, okay, I don't learn best, like, initially with others, I have to, like, sit down, learn it myself, and then kind of review with others. And so that's something, I think, just really trying things out, seeing, okay, if this class is difficult for you, not working for you, how are you studying it? If you're really doing the same thing, you know, it's like, change things up, change up the way you're reviewing something.  But again, we said, not comparing yourself with others, and that's obviously both a good piece of advice for, like, the classes that you're taking, eventually, you know, and Shala, and you're applying to schools, getting into schools, and that aspect, but even in, again, in the way you're studying, in the way that you're going back your academics, again, everyone learns in a different manner, and at a different speed. Some people are naturally, you know, they get things quick, and it can be kind of frustrating, you know, if it takes you a little bit longer. So just, I guess, being really aware of that, making sure, I don't know if everybody knows that, but I think it's nice to be reminded that, and to really try it. And I think another thing we can make sure to do, I know there's a little, like, and I don't know how accurate, how good they are up in the online, you can find a little, like, oh, what's learning method of mine? And like, little quizzes, and for me, I did it, and honestly, I think they at least gave me something. Okay, let's try this. I, you know, see what this little quiz tells me, let's try it out and see if it actually ends up being useful. So Insha'Allah, that's something also that I can recommend, if you're kind of struggling on it, what's the best way for me to learn, or get information down. Insha'Allah, we will, okay, so I'll go ahead, Bismillahir Rahmanir Raheem, I'll continue with best academic practices. So I think for sophomores and juniors, echoing what Wanees said as well, you know, if students can take classes they like and try to do the best that they can, I think it can go a really long way. But I also wanna say, to be honest with you, like I had like B's on my transcript too, including A's, so it's like, don't feel like if you have B's, that it's the end-all, be-all, no, like you can improve, you can do better, and so what worked for me academically was actually spending quite a lot of time at school, after school, like with different professors or teachers in the classes that were kind of challenging for me. So for example, like calculus was extremely hard for me and Subhanallah, it makes sense, because now I'm in law school, Mashallah. But I was, I think almost every day after school, I was there for like 30 minutes, learning from my teacher and calculus, and I think she ended up writing one of my college recommendation letters, and I think that was really important. So don't be afraid of getting to know your teachers more, don't be afraid of spending more time on your classes of, if working with students helps you doing that or actually just going to the teacher after school helps you as well, I'd say do that as well, because high school's a time where you're learning how to learn, you're learning skills that you'll take into your college years. How do you take information that's being presented to you, study that, and then on an exam be able to sort of not just replicate what you've learned, but also take it steps further and sort of demonstrate critical thinking skills. Like that's what high school is all about. It's about preparing you to enter a university environment where you can then choose between so many disciplines, like Mashallah Wanees, he's studying environmental science and public policy, and for my undergraduate, I was molecular biology for a long time and then I switched into social studies where I studied mostly history. What the point being is that as a 10th grader or 11th grader, your classes are really great ways for you to start to develop these skills and put in your effort and in your time. And if you have bees, that's also okay too. That's really good. And you can always improve. I think that's the biggest thing.  It's about showing up. It's about trying your best and trying your hardest. And I think the main advice I have for 10th graders and 11th graders is spend time on your classes if that's what you're interested in, which I hope you're interested in. Spend time on them. Develop your learning methods, your studying practices. For me, that involved going to sort of after school hours with the teachers and it also involved really coming home and just studying my notes and really reviewing. And also make sure you guys get like seven to eight hours of sleep every night. I think that's a public safety announcement. Extra curricular activities. I wanna, I'll start with this one and then. Okay, I'm okay. So what did we do extra curricular wise? So for me, my main extra curricular activities were the Human Rights Committee that I kind of talked about a little earlier. It was a volunteer organization with me and my friends and we did a few things. So one thing we did was volunteering for people in our community who were in elementary school who needed volunteering help. Another thing we did was fundraising on campus. And so we did the fundraiser for the Pakistan Floods and I think it was like 2011. And so our organization was really involved in that which was really incredible. And the other thing we did with the Human Rights Committee is we had a week long event at our school where we brought in speakers, where we had teachers talk about different human rights fields. So that was a main extra curricular interest of mine. And I ended up actually writing my personal statement about the Human Rights Committee. Oh geez. One thing I think is cool though is it was really a genuine interest of mine. So when I went to college, I was part of the founding board of the Human Rights Review at Harvard where we focused on human rights issues across the world where me and other students would write about these issues. We'd work on a journal together. At Harvard, I was also part of the United Nations there, the Model United Nations Conference. So I chaired the Human Rights Committee that we did sort of like a mock delegation of 200 college students in this field. So in that way, you can kind of see if you genuinely pursue some extra curriculars, they can follow you throughout your career. Right now at the Law School at Berkeley, I'm quite involved at the Human Rights Center. So I took health and human rights last year which was focused on sort of what are the main pressing issues across the world that lawyers can focus on in the human rights field. And this semester I'm taking a class on the International Criminal Court and how lawyers work across the world but especially in the Hague and the Netherlands on bringing international prosecutions against war criminals from different places. So this is just to show you that extracurricular activities can be an incredible way for you to pursue interests that you really find meaningful. And it doesn't have to be in social sciences, it could be in music, it could be in art, it could be in eschemic studies. There's honestly the world's, or the sky's a limit. And the other thing I'll touch on is I did do sort of research with a biology teacher at my high school. And so I would kind of go into our lab after school and work on different projects and that was a really meaningful activity. Why don't I pass it on to you? I think Cameron kind of covered most of what I wanted to discuss. But I think one thing I wanted to make sure to again talk about was a difficulty that I had when I was thinking of what extracurriculars would do in high school. And I think a lot of people, and I definitely struggled with the same thing, was that we would, I would try to find activities that fit what I wanted to do in college. Like for example, let's say I wanted to do, if someone wanted to, I know a lot of the Muslim people, which I don't know if they wanted to do engineering, they wanted to go to middle school, whatever they wanted to do, they tried to find like only extracurricular, the only volunteer stuff that kind of fits that. And that's great if you're able to find something that you really enjoy that is similar to what you think you wanna go into post high school. That's amazing, that's great. But I think don't limit yourself to that. Again, really finding, and it goes back to what we were talking about earlier, which is the other things you do that kind of shows the, if you're looking at in terms of the university, it gives the university a sense of okay, who you are more than any scores or numbers will do. And so that is, it's a lot of what you talk about in essays, it's a lot of what you talk, I know the UCs don't have them, but I know actually for certain programs they do, in a lot of schools, they conduct interviews. And it's the same thing in schools that have interviews, they're not gonna be asking you about your studying, they're gonna be asking okay, what was the challenge you faced, what was a time you showed leadership, what was something, what was in the, I guess they're asking you about the things outside of school that you did, the clubs you were in, the sports that you might have played, everything else. And so again, finding things that you really enjoy and we had this last point, a quality over quantity and that works for a lot of things, but I think 100% for this as well, I think it's another thing, sometimes it's pressure from, what everyone else is doing or sometimes, I the same thing, it's a pressure from your parents, like oh, make sure you're doing something, make sure your cousin is doing all these things, why aren't you doing this? And so sometimes it feels like you have to do a lot of extracurriculars, you have to find a million different volunteers, things you do, all that. And that's great, if you're able to balance it, amazing, but I think it's important to find a few things that you really enjoy, that you're really passionate about, even if it's not related to what you like for me, love tennis, I wrote one of my UCSAs about playing tennis and it was great, I enjoyed it, loved it. And so just weird, small little things like that and I know a lot of people, I'm doing that, it's great, especially in a community like this, I imagine a lot of you are volunteering, helping out at the Mudge, doing that, I know, and it sounds unethical, but the universities and colleges love when you're giving, you're working in your community, you're helping out, and same thing, I remember I took a lot about, again, I'm from Brentwood, I talked a lot about teaching at the Sunday School in Brentwood, in our Brentwood Mudge did, or just working there, and my experience is there, even, I'm not sure if you guys' high schools have, MSAs, or have a solid Muslim community, but I know in mine, we had a very small, Muslim community, but my freshman year we were able to kind of help establish a small sort of little MSA at the high school. We were on the little, it was really nice, building community, having, creating like a prayer space on campus, and so again, I think two of my UCSAs were like, I guess related to that, finding with the teaching, like the Mudge did, and I guess helping build the MSA at the high school, so just, if it's whether that's like in the Mudge did, wherever you find like, oh, I wanna spend more time here, I want to work here, even if it's, again, it's completely unrelated, like I did not have one like activity, volunteer thing that was anything related to like environmental science, or anything that like my major is in now, and I felt nice that I wasn't like feeling I was forced to do that, because there are some great opportunities within all the fields, but I wanna give you guys the most opportunity and the universities too, you know, they always say, oh, we're looking for a well-rounded person, things that are doing a lot of, you know, you're doing, you're able to balance different things with that school, and like a bunch of different extracurriculars, and we just wanna make sure you're not limiting yourself to just, you know, if you're like, oh, I want to do engineering, that's amazing, that's great, and if you're able to find something barely meaningful that you enjoy in that field, perfect, but it's still, you still get the same benefit, at least if you're looking college-wise, and like, you know, yourself is building, if you find like a volunteering opportunity that's completely unrelated, that you really enjoy, so that's just the one of the, I'll say too, don't be shy of investing in your masjid, like as young people, honestly, I think from the students we know at Berkeley, like I know from the Muslim Students Association Board, they wrote their parts of their personal statements, or parts of, because I think for the UCs, you can choose four essays, they wrote one of their four essays on their time volunteering at the masjid, because I think, you know, if you can invest in the communities you're a part of, even people who are not Muslim, it shows that you're invested, you're engaged, you want to give back to people, and all of you sitting here, like the 10th graders and 11th graders, like you will be the future leaders of our society, so don't, I think the masjid is an awesome place to do sort of extracurricular activities and to work as well, and it's extremely meaningful too, so whether that's volunteering or teaching or bringing a skill set that you have, or an artistic interest you have to the masjid, and developing that, these all show leadership, and it's, I think it's really important to do things that you sincerely enjoy, and so I think that's one thing we want to definitely convey, so. So I think kind of, we sort of touched on this throughout the presentation. You basically can choose two to three teachers or outside, maybe coaches or other mentors who can write your letters of recommendation. So the one biggest piece of advice I'll have is just make sure you spend some quality time with them, whether it's in a class that you really like with them. Make sure it's someone who can say something more than just like, you know, Kamran was a nice person in my class, but can say sort of like, you know, when Kamran showed up like every Tuesday afternoon, because he couldn't understand like how to integrate this thing, like it showed that he was like persistent or something, like you want teachers who can really advocate for you and who really know you, and if you don't take it opportunities to learn more about your teachers or to sort of seek help when you need it, I think that can sometimes be challenging. So just build relationships with teachers, you know? Let me get over to Denise. And I wrote it on the slide just to remind myself, but definitely I wanted to say that for me, the like finding teachers to write the letters of the record were my like biggest work, my biggest social union, my junior or senior year, when they start thinking about it, I was like, oh, I don't, you know, you're in class, but I didn't feel like I had like a proper connection that I felt like, oh, maybe like, is this teacher really gonna write me like a good letter of recommendation? Are they really gonna want to? And so I think it's one thing, a lot of people I know that similar that were in your senior year at the same time as me were worrying about it. I think one first teachers, you know, they used to it, they know to expect it. So it's like, I guess, don't be intimidated by them in that aspect. And then second also, and again, it's like, if you know, right now you're in a perfect place, if you're in your freshman, sophomore, junior year, you're looking ahead, potentially looking at, okay, what teachers, you know, what classes do I enjoy?  There's also, I think, you know, Ron mentioned his calculus teachers, my calculus teacher, she's super nice, very kind, and I noticed a few times, you know, I was like, okay, let me raise my hand a few more times, and I usually wouldn't in class, you know, maybe just like, I wouldn't really do anything more. It's like, okay, let me make sure that like, she knows I exist, I'm in presence, and she was nice, she was kind, so I was like, okay, perfect. Insha'Allah, I'm gonna act up a little, I'm gonna be a little more active in class, and insha'Allah, senior year, I'm gonna come back and ask her for a letter of recommendation, that's exactly what I did, and then same thing with my bio teacher, I think my junior year of high school as well, and that's another thing, I guess, you know, you don't have to, you know, the teachers have great memory, you don't have to take the class your senior year and get your letter of recommendation from them, both of my letter of recommendations, or maybe two or three of them, were all from my junior year of high school, so 11th grade, actually, and so not being afraid of that, you know, really, you can go towards 11th grade. Oh, exactly, even better, so that's, and sometimes it helps, you know, 11th grade, you have the full year you have, because oftentimes you're asking, in terms of timeline for letter of recommendation, you're doing the same thing as you are with the rest of the application, where you're asking in the fall of your senior years, you know, sometimes, you don't know that professor, or you don't, excuse me, you don't know that teacher, all as well, and so sometimes, you know, I guess, don't be afraid of asking someone that you knew earlier, and if you recognize, oh, this teacher's really cool, he's really very kind, maybe raising your hand a little bit more, answering a few more questions, doing something that little extra with the intention that, okay, you know, inshallah, I'm gonna ask them for letter of recommendation, and one thing I wanted to mention, I never saw it before, so I wanted to at least make everyone aware, my teachers were all, and it worked out for them, and for us, when I asked for a letter of recommendation, they asked for me to give them a brag sheet, and I didn't know what that was, if that explained it to me, and basically, it was a less formatted resume, like, I don't say resume, you know, I had your classes that you took that, you know, whatever, like your GPA, you're at the time, you know, your test scores for the UCs still mattered, so I had my test scores there, different activities volunteering, I guess, other interests, and how you pursued them work, maybe if you have work experience, so just kind of like a list of different things you've done, different things you're part of, and that really helped the teachers as well, because then they're, okay, these are some things, you know, they know you, but like, how much can you really write about someone if you're only seeing them once, you know, like maybe two, three times a week, and you're seeing them like an hour, hour and a half, and so giving them that like, that list, and of course, you know, you can talk about them like this, so you can ask them, if they don't ask about it for you, you can tell them, hey, do you want me to kind of get you a little list of like, the things I'm involved in, the classes, and so I know both of the teachers that I had, right, my letters of recommendation, they both asked for it, and it made it easier for them, they had like, things to pull from, like, oh, look, they're doing this, they're doing that, and then it made it easier for me as well, because they know, okay, they know a little bit more about me as well, and so that kind of eased some tensions, as well, so inshallah, hopefully that does for you guys as well, that you can either provide it, you can talk to them, and I think, my teacher's called it a brag sheet, I don't know, he was essentially just like a list in the form of a resume, so it was cool, it was convenient, and that's something you can definitely ask your teachers about as well, as you're getting ready for letters of recommendation. I know we kind of covered a little bit of everything, but it was definitely more like, I guess the surface, we wanted to touch upon a lot of things, but again, like we said in the beginning, a lot of the learning, a lot of the questions, I mean, a lot of what you guys want to hear is from questions that we answer, and so we wanted to really just, I guess at first, if there's anything anyone wanted a little more detail on, or we want to dive a little deeper into, we can definitely do that as well, but really just questions people had, clarifications, things that we wanted to hear a little bit more about, wanted just to share maybe our experiences on, so we wanted to be hopefully, I know we kind of covered a lot of it, and some of it may be a complete review from a lot of you, so we want to make sure that if anyone has specific questions or things they're still wondering about that we're able to, inshallah, answer it. My major is environmental science, and then some environmental science, but my plan, inshallah, is to apply it to medical school, so I'm doing the, it's the same as everyone's doing the application process, I am returning and doing the application process one more time. And I majored in social studies, and I'm in law school right now. Yeah, I think the year that probably matters, the most in my opinion, I think it's junior year, right? Yeah, so junior, so I think if you can try your best, your 11th grade, your 11th grade, following your 11th grade spring, I think that really matters. They can also sometimes look at your senior year fall, if you send them your grades from your fall semester, which is what I did. My school allowed me to do that, which was, I think, really cool.  And I know the UCs, they have a, they would look at, and I can't 100% confirm, I'm not 100% sure it's still the same process as it was, but they would have your software in your 10th and 11th grade, that would be the GPA, the GPA number that they see is from those two years. And they'd still look at like the class work from your freshman year and from your fall semester of your senior year. So they'd look at like the, they say, oh, we want to see you rigor, we want to see you taking difficult classes or taking a variety of classes. But your GPA, for the UCs, at least of course, a lot of private schools, they look at all four years for hopefully private schools, and they should have it on their website, they look at for UCs, those that software and junior year, like GPA-wise is like the calculated numbers from those two, but then they still look at the classes from the other two years as like, okay, what are they doing? Are they like challenging themselves? Or what kind of classes are they interested in taking? Now I'll also say, don't be shy if like earlier years, you may not have done the very best you could have done. And I think the biggest thing in this whole process is like, just you do your best that you can. And if you can invest in your junior year, like junior year is when I got like a few Bs, and that was really, I was like, oh my gosh, but this is a year that counts the most. But then like my senior fall, like I did really well, masha'Allah. So don't feel like, if ninth or 10th grade went one way, then my junior year can't go another way. Like you can always invest. And I think if you do things that are meaningful and that are passionate about, you will really shine in the whole process. Yeah, definitely. And to build on to that point, like the counselors in your school will have like the best information about like, you know, your sort of specific academic programs and what electives are open to you. And sort of, you know, they'll have the, so I definitely say like, make sure you can try and talk to them, you know, in your junior year, at the beginning of your senior year. I know for the specific language question, I'm not, I don't know, we talked about earlier too, where we're like, I know the Chesapeake might have like, like they might have different programs. So in Shala, we'll get the proper information to you guys as soon as we have it. But like, I know how, at least how it did work was that you would have to, I guess the technically, you wouldn't have to go to community college if you somehow like in those two years covered all the requirements.  And I'm not, I'm not exactly, I'm not fully sure if, you know, of course like your basic class and your English is whenever it's a little more straightforward, but, you know, something like a language, how that would, how that would work. I can't, I'm not, I'm trying to get an answer and we'll get it right back to you guys. Yeah, we will. Yeah, please. Okay. I would like to just summarize for us like, what are the different type of possibilities we mentioned about community college in terms of seems to you and the uses? I'll be like, where do private schools fit? And are you able to sort of tell us the difference between what you just said here and what you're trying to do? So I think the question is just that the past that the students. So yeah, this is like the UC, you know, the whole UC system that I think nine undergraduate schools and then the the CSE system which everyone knows about. And then I use the private schools usually have a, a similar, not all of them, but there's usually two like larger like applications in terms of the application process. You know, there's the common app and the coalition app a little bit smaller, but that also exists with a common application is like the, the, so most private schools use this common application. And so, you know, like say, I imagine I can't tell you 100% but 90% sure, like St. Mary's probably uses it, Stanford, I imagine USC, I don't use the common app. So a lot of these different private schools, both, you know, in California and like, you know, over the US, you know, they use the common application. And for that, how the, the process works, you know, very similar in terms of they're looking for, of course, you're, how you talk about your extracurriculars and your essays, letters, recommendation, all that. I guess the one difference is, you know, with the UCs to apply to all the UCs is the exact same essays.  But for the common application schools, you have a like a primary essay that's common across like, across the board, then schools also usually have like supplemental essays that are specific to their schools. And so if you're applying to, let's say seven or eight private schools, most of the time those, those schools will have, you know, will be using the common application. And so you fill out the common application, you add all your information into it, you know, you put your transcript in there, your letters or recommendation, and you have that one primary essay. Could you, the actual prompt for that primary?  So that one is the same for all schools. You write that once and it gets sent to all of the schools on the application. And then along with that, most schools usually have shorter essays that they have, you know, specific to their own schools.  And then I know a lot of people in California becomes, it's easy, you know, because we have like the two big, you know, larger like public, the UCs and the CSEs, it's easy to kind of forget about all the other schools, the private schools all over. And I think one thing that people get scared of with the private schools as well, even within California is oftentimes, you know, the cost initially technically is like higher, but you know, these schools also give aid a lot easier to use. I don't many, I think all my friends that are at USC or at Stanford or at different like private schools, even I have a few at St. Mary's actually, they're actually paying less than like the average student out of the UC is paying just because of the financial aid and the help that the scholarships, the things that the private schools often give that's a little more easier to obtain than at like a lot of public institutions. I guess I was quickly talking, I know we mentioned the like that transfer process, so we know this in terms of like another option.  That would be, you know, you graduate high school and then most people, what they do is, you know, two years in a community college and then transferring and that you can again, the transfer in California, you often see people transferring to the UCs or the CSCs, but you can definitely transfer again to private schools as well. And you go through the same application as, you know, it'd be the common application for private schools as a transfer student as well. I think there is a cost involved for application, but I also know that they offer waivers as well, like the common application does. I think, you know, when he's had a great point, like, I think when you're thinking about where to apply to, I think as all California people, we should definitely apply to the UC system. I think it's excellent, like my brother went to UCLA, Masha'a Allah, like it's a great, this is a great system to be part of. I think in general, I had like 15 colleges on my list. So I'd say maybe six of them were probably like in California or in the UCs, another like, you know, six, and then maybe like another six. So I applied quite across the board, but I'd say anywhere from 10 to 15 or 18, I think that's like generally kind of normal. I think it helps if the parents like, I don't know exactly. Especially with regards to financial aid, it can be overwhelming for a lot of parents to kind of be aware of those, because I'm a parent myself, so. I know with the application in general, I think you're able to, you know, that it takes a little work, especially if you know, but I think with, like the student is able to kind of go through the process, but definitely I think the financial aid part of it, the FAFSA, you know, filling that out, that I know for me personally, definitely had to sit down with my father and work through it. And that definitely becomes a little more of a process. And I guess it just becomes the time consuming part of just finding sometimes, oh, you gotta find this tax thing, you gotta find this form. And so I think for that really just making sure that you have dedicated some time out for it, it takes a little bit longer than you would want.  But I think there's like over in California, there's over like a billion dollars of like aid that's like gone like unclaimed like each year. So a lot of people that could be getting help that they just don't feel it out because they're like, oh, I don't think I'm gonna do it. So even if you feel like, oh, there's no chance, I think each year, even in college, you know, I'm still every year filling out my FAFSA, but still I always have to sit down with my dad and work through it. And so that is the one process where I think for sure that it helps to, like it becomes a joint effort almost. And there is help online, no doubt, that you can find. Sometimes it helps to having friends that have, or like families that you know that they have their, they fill out the form that their child has gone, been in college for a few years, going to them. I know that's what my dad did. He had a, his brother had a child that, my cousin, that was a few years older and he went to him like, okay, how do I child the process? So that worked for him, but that is I think the one case where it's important to have like, both the student and the parent, I think it's the one part that's a little bit, can get a little confusing. Yeah, and on to the student and parent thing, I think it's also really important that like, you know, you have a good relationship, like for the students with your parents, because I think parents are able to sometimes see qualities you have that you may not even see in yourself. So for example, like, my mom was the one who encouraged me and says, you're interested in all these human rights issues. Why don't you be a part of these human rights events? And I think without her encouragement, I would never have like, gotten the courage to begin these different things. So I think have a good relationship with your parents, young ones, it's part of our faith. I answer your question though. Yeah, because a law school doesn't really offer any scholarships. And it's another thing that we, I know in the previous, essentially we compiled like a big list of different scholarships. And there's even one, I forgot the, this again will be something that we make sure to, when you're sending out the slides, we add at the end just like a big list of resources, I'll let everybody has it. But that's, there's like a big compilation of scholarships. I think, you know, I mentioned earlier that the second semester of your senior year ends up being like, oh, very easy, you're relaxing, I'm just relaxing. The one thing I remember doing very vigorously was applying to every possible scholarship that like, I fit for, like, okay, this could maybe work, I'll go and supply it to it. And so that is definitely what I did in my second semester of senior year. And so there are a lot out there, you know, if some of it you can find on Google, like, you know, just like by researching, I know we have like a list of like a bunch of scholarships and there's even one, and I can't remember if it was a database or it was a website or what exactly what it was, but essentially allowed you to filter like by like, okay, what's, not like what am I, but essentially kind of explaining, talking about yourself or like, and then they can find like scholarships that fit. Like I know I had a friend that through that found like a few that were like, he had, you know, come as like a refugee from Afghanistan. He was able to find like specific scholarships that fit, you know, fit the bill there. So he didn't have to do like all that searching. It was like an easier like database of some sorts. Inshallah, I'll find that as well. Make sure to link it and get it out to everyone. Yeah. I think there is one more alternative I heard about it, but I didn't confirm. If you are worrying about getting scholarship and your family finances are not in good shape or if the student is working and getting their own tax return, they can apply and get the full scholarship. At least I think they need two years of tax return and they shouldn't be dependent on their parents. If they are working, you know, like part-time for their job, they can apply with their own tax return to FAFSA. Thank you. Okay, thank you, thank you. Like I said, look at it. Yeah, I think the students essentially being like independent like, oh, this is my salary. And then because I know not, I know someone who not a similar, not exactly the same but very similar that they, you know, these two Muslim students actually, they graduated high schools for their feedback. And I think they did a similar thing where they were working, you know, independent and then you're able to get like the full scholarship to even a lot of the public schools that makes it a little bit more difficult. So that's definitely another loophole on the way they go through it. I know actually quite a few people that did exactly that where they, they got into, you know, or they didn't even apply like right out of high school because they, you know, for the same reason.  But then the negative is cost of living is also expensive or food, you know, apartment or dorm or wherever they live. And so that is actually, that's something that we neglected to mention but definitely with community college is not just as like a, if you know, don't get into the school that you want to but also as a proactive measure of like saving money, definitely. It does so. And I know actually most of the people, like from my hometown that, you know, that are going to many of them didn't even like apply, you know, in high school.   So that's definitely another big benefit of it. Exactly, you finish your high school and then people in the new weekend enroll in the community college.  I know quite a few people are able to do it in one year. So if they only do it in one year, but the majority, you know, then they spend the two years in community college. Like the associate's degree. And then they train on their second year of community college in the fall. They would be doing the application to transfer. So it's a very similar that essays are almost exactly the same for the UCs. They have one extra like transfer essays that they have, but like a very similar process. And then the good thing is for that, like your high school GPA and like test scores are like neglected. Now you're just looking at your community college. So which is nice. Cause then, you know, if you're working really hard I know many people that, you know, for whatever reason struggled in high school or didn't really like care that much. I was like, ah, and then they went to community college.  You can transfer to private schools as well. I know in California, they for the UCs people, you know, it's more common because of the tag program that we mentioned where you can get like the guaranteed acceptance as long as you like take the classes and you have that minimum GPA requirement. So that's more common, definitely you can, you can transmit to like private schools as well and outside of California and most people end up just like they go to California community college and I'm transferring to like a California university but definitely out of state as well as possible. What year did you like start planning for like applying to college and stuff? Hey, I guess I know we were talking about a junior year.  I took it between my software and junior years. It's a little bit earlier, but I didn't put any thought into anything else until I think the, in the summer before my senior year, then I started, I guess looking at like, okay, what are, what schools are out there? I was lucky that I had a sister that was three years older than me. So like I at least knew of like the UCs I knew of the schools in the area, but I didn't know anything else. But I think that summer reach for your senior year is a good time to at least start thinking about it. Like definitely enjoy it and don't like, feel like you gotta work so hard, but at least start thinking about, okay, what are some professors or some teachers that I wanna reach out to for a letter of recommendation? What are, what are the school, the school list that I wanna build? We talked about school list a little bit and like the number of schools you wanna apply to and the other thing in that summer that might be helpful is, I know they always say that apply to like a couple of every schools, a lot of like target schools and then a couple of like safety schools as well as schools that, okay, my numbers and my things should, inshallah, you know, get me in. There's never a guarantee, but like, I guess that, like those, those three is definitely very important.    And so, you know, applying to some of those schools that you feel like, oh, I've got no shop, you know, let's, let's let all my name in there and maybe they'll, maybe they'll like me and then apply to a lot of like target schools where you fit in terms of numbers wise and all the, and like, I can like a mission fit as well as they always say. And then it's always important as well to I think apply to a few schools where you are above the, like the average. And of course numbers are not everything, but definitely, you know, it at least gives you like a baseline. And so I think that's something I started thinking about as well in that, in that summer in between. And that's honestly for me at least when I started thinking about it, and I'll come around also because on, on here we have subject tests, but I believe that subject tests are like obsolete now. Like they're not like, so there, yeah. That's a great thing. They were the worst thing to take. So very good that no one has to take those anymore. Sorry. I don't know, so you can take, I know a lot of schools, and I imagine you guys can look around. I know, you only need to take one. I know some people are better at one than the other. I know the ACT has a little more science SAT. Some people don't like how the reading is structured. There's something like preferences there, but you know, the schools that require them don't have any preference between the two. And like I only, I just took the SAT. I never even tried the ACT, which made me not like, maybe the best way to go about it. I know a lot of schools offer like a, like a mini like SAT, ACT, like little like practice tests, like both of them. And you're able to try out both, see what you like. But if you know that's not what you want to do. If you want to just, if someone wants to just take one, I think it's, that's totally valid too. There's slightly, there's slight differences, but there's no preference from any university of either.  But only, only one is, only one is needed. Multitasking, installable, but we're getting both like a little form that will fill out. So everyone, we can get everyone's information. So we get all the extra resources out to you. But with that question, I know personally I use, I know Khan Academy has like all their free resources online. That was very, that's like all I use. So that was very, very helpful, SAT-wise. I know ACT, I imagine has similar like online resources, but that, I know there's a lot of like books. So I, again, am very much, I enjoy like that paper pen, like writing it down. So that helped. I know there are the classes and the big groups. And what I've heard, and I personally didn't take, didn't take any class or anything like that. But what I've heard is if you, if someone is struggling with, I guess setting the schedule or like keeping yourself accountable to studying for something, then it can be helpful doing it like a group setting, having a classroom.  But both options are there.  Definitely that can help and that can really give them the structure that they need. Okay, inshallah. We've got this little tiny URL that we have here. And this, you know, you can put it on your phone and this is for, okay, inshallah. So that's exactly what we'll do. We'll have this, you know, we'll get like our little email list and that way, you know, like the scholarship list and, you know, the clarification on the Chesapea and a few other things and resources that we find. We'll try to also find some help for like FAFSA, you know, like there's like a easy video or there's something, you know, we'll try to compile all the resources. A lot of them that we have, we just don't have all in one place. So inshallah, we'll get them all there and then if we have your emails, we can make sure to send it out to you in the next couple of days. So we're able to, let us know if it, if it doesn't work, is there any error? But inshallah, that, exactly just the email, exactly. And that way we can just keep, when inshallah, once we have all our resources compiled, we'll send that and we'll, I know the rest of the slides have very little information but we'll make sure to send it all out. And that way as well, you know, if there's any follow-up questions or something that you feel like, oh, I wanted to ask but I, I didn't, we can definitely, we can help you there. And, you know, the community, you know, at Berkeley's Business Department, they're like all the students, they are very, well, they'll be very helpful. So if you, for example, you know, as a student, if you are very interested in a certain subject and you want to talk to someone or you want to be able to get connected with a student, you know, a Muslim student at Berkeley or you know, we can go outside of Berkeley too if we find, if we can't find someone. But just be connected with a student in a similar path or a similar major that you're interested in. We can definitely do that as well. And so, feel free to put all, you know, as long as we have your email, inshallah, then we'll be able to stay in contact and, you know, get you connected with people that can help and answer any questions and get all the, the resources to you all, inshallah. So Jazakum al-Akhirran everyone for coming. Please stay in touch. If you add your emails to that list, inshallah, we'll be in touch with more resources, including ways you can get involved with other Berkeley students. So thank you all for your time and for being here. As-salamu alaykum.


I'm just very excited to hear as well is a heuristic park, why we can't, we can fake it until we make it. So our presenter, Iskimo, is going to share on these topics. Why do we believe in fake news and what are news silos and more topics? This lecture discusses the psychological reasons as seen from the perspective of a social engineer. We were talking beforehand, he wanted to point out that if you're thinking of social engineering just in terms of one area, it might come up in a security focus con like this, thinking just in terms of manipulation to say bike passes, security protocol, you're missing a lot of the apparatus of what he'll be talking about. This talk explores further and focuses on ways that we respond neurologically hardwired to details and what some of the consequences are related to his topic. So thank you very much. Thank you. Take it away. So first and foremost, I might need to apologize up front because I might look a little fatigued and off balance and that's not because it's day three and it's 11 a.m. at a hacker camp because it is. Kudos to you for being here at this time and the only advantage that we have is that it's not too hot yet in this tent. So with me, it's actually medical. I'm suffering some post-COVID things. So if you see me wobble around a little bit, that's medical and it's OK. I'm fine, but it looks a bit funny sometimes. That having said, I can fully adhere to what you said, wear a mask, and everyone ask, protect teacher, be careful because COVID is not over. So that being said, a small introduction and this is very scary for me.    And I have the same feeling here because it's all hackers. You guys know about social engineering and probably because you're here, you know a little bit more or at least you're interested in social engineering. So I'll have to do my best today and I'll try. This talk is meant to be a little longer than the 15 minutes that I got. So I might skip some things. But first by a raise of hand, how many people understand Dutch quite well? Okay, so there is some slides in there, which are examples, but they are in Dutch. So I'll be showing them, not taking too much time about them, but they're funny to see. So that's good. A small introduction, I'm a social engineer. I have been for a lot of time, a lot of years. I've been pentesting companies professionally for 15. After that, my face got on too many wanted posters and I had to stop doing that because if you show up and people say, hey, that's the guy from last time, that is problematic also for the rest of your team still conducting the test. So I decided to go and teach and that's what I do at this moment. So furthermore, I'm a researcher. This stuff is very interesting. It stays very interesting. So you read all about it and you delve into it very deeply. And I do stuff like this, public speaking. I attend conferences. And of course, we have this wonderful Angry Nerds podcast. It's in Dutch. Find it, it's funny. Right. I have been sweating on this one for a long time because I needed to form a definition of social engineering and I started writing its psychological techniques to get your password. No, that's not it. It's to make you do things that you actually don't want or cannot or... No, that's not it either. And it became a very, very long and confusing definition, like most job descriptions, very long and confusing and half of it is not even true. So I came up with this. Actually it's two words. There's the word social, which is any interaction you have with other people. You can initiate or undergo it. And you have engineering, which is you have a plan, you design something. And from that design, you go and build a house, a bridge, anything. So if you combine those two and you say, okay, I'm going to have a social interaction with anyone by a design to get to a certain goal, that is what social engineering is. It's nothing more. It's nothing less. This is a very clean definition and I could come up with just by translating those two words. So what is it? It is being clever with the truth. You can do that by words, just by plain lying. We'll get to that later on. You could indirectly lie by showing up in a nice suit because you have an interview or something or you could fuddle with the truth. We'll get to that later as well. Or you could just set the scene. You see it in Bitcoin. It's great. Bitcoin is great. All these fancy offices and these great companies that do all kinds of wonderful stuff. Of course, Bitcoin is not a very good idea. At least that's my opinion, but it gets hyped a lot. Sorry for the guys having Bitcoin. Yeah, it's not a good time for Bitcoin. So who does it?  Some of you will get it. Criminals, lawyers, salespeople, of course, but parents also.  But children can also social engineer very well, especially ours. She knows exactly how to look, how to smile to get candy or to stay up later. How many of you have kids? Respect. So this is very hard. They come up with all kinds of crazy stuff to not have to go to sleep. I need to pee. I need to drink. That's also social engineering. You just adjust your normal behavior to make it logical what you're doing. So actually anyone, everyone social engineers. I am not at this moment because this is what I actually look like, but at work I wear other stuff. Of course, you don't go to work in the couch outfit, let's say it like that. So why do we do it? This is still an introduction that you're probably familiar with. You could go for influencing people. And there is a subtle difference, but a very important difference between influence and manipulation. Because I think manipulation is the bad kind and influence is good. You can also influence people to get them in a certain track which is actually in their own interest.  That is weird, right? So these doctors, they get trained to bring this news in a special way. You have to serve it up so you won't black out. If I go and tell you, hey, you have cancer, I can be sure that anything I say after that will not land. You just don't hear it. And it's in your interest and in the interest of the doctor that you keep listening.  I looked at your test results. This is what I found. There are treatments, but it is severe. So we have to do this and this and this and this and this.  And doctors know this. So that's what they learn. Social engineering influencing also has a good side, but when it gets to manipulation, that's bad. You don't want that. So there are some techniques and I love listening to radio commercials. I'm the only one, I guess, and it can be really funny because in the Netherlands we have .nl and it rhymes with snel, we do a Dutch word for fast. So they make all these rhymes, it's not because it rhymes and it's not because they think they have a unique little slogan, but it implies urgency, very subtly, but it implies urgency. Oh, we have only a few left. That also implies urgency and scarcity, so we wanted more. So these are techniques that you see in marketing, but you see them in a lot of other places too. The last one that's one I learned very late in life, you get a free phone when you renew your subscription, the phone is not free, it's not. You pay for it several times through the higher subscription rates that you accept. It's not a free deal. But these are tricks, they tell you that it's a free phone, right? So what's interesting is I would love to see a judge look at a case like that and say, look, I said it's a free phone. It's not free, I want a free phone. And there is actually a guy who does that with all kinds of commercials and he wins those cases as well. This is very funny. So we can play on emotions and this is where it gets interesting. We know that fear is a big one, insecurities, lots of people are insecure. And if you go and stress them, and later on we'll see why they will cooperate sooner, then there is greed. When I tell you that I can double your money in two days, of course you want that, you wouldn't want it. But it's also a cue for you to start thinking because when it sounds too good to be true it is. And then there is confidence. Of course we can get the other way around and get people really confident about something and then take them along for a ride and they fail miserably because we are very good at getting them. That's the confidence games, right? You see them on TV all the time. And then the last one and that's the one I'm talking about today. There is cognitive biases and there is heuristics. And these are properties of your brain that we try to exploit because what would be better for a social engineer to find a flaw in your brain, play on that flaw and you don't have any defense against it. I mean you will go for it even though you know you are scammed. It's like it's impossible not to be startled. Think about it. You can't not be startled. And we tested this with a guy, very highly educated guy, very, very smart and we told him okay we have a haunted house here. We build it and there is a few rooms.  There is something on the floor. The door knob is slimy. There is like fake spider webs and there is stuff and there is wind blowing and evil sounds and you hear this and you hear that and after exactly seven seconds a guy in a black suit on the floor will grab your ankles. Seven seconds. So just go in there and count one, two, three. And it was impossible for this guy not to be startled. Even when we counted down through an intercom we sat there and we said five, four, three, two. And still it's impossible because this takes place in another part of your brain and if you can tap into that as a social engineer you'll always win. So this is where this talk gets interesting. And of course there is identity fraud. This is the first recorded case of identity fraud. I just wanted to show you that. Okay. Who is very fast at thinking because we see patterns all the time, right? Who is very fast? What's on the question mark? Who knows? Just by a raise of hand. Who can see it? Okay. Any answers? 25? Okay. Anything else on 25? It's not true. It's not 25. And this is because the fast part of the brain, there is two systems actually. Daniel Kahnerman, a very famous psychologist, a writer, he talks about these two systems. We have the fast and the slow system. And the slow system is the reasonable part. You think, okay, look, what is it say? What is this? And the fast part says, oh, it's 25. And you're done with it. So we tap into that. The fast part, it is not 25 because the answer is right there. It's five. One is five. So five is one, right? That's what it says. This is not a range. It looks like a range, but it is not. And only if you tap into the slower part of your brain and say, look, what, what, oh, yeah, it's right there. It's five. Then you get the right answer. So this is a perfect example for what we call heuristics. And heuristics are shortcuts in your brain. Why do we have these? It does not. It says so. Oh, of course, mathematically, this is incorrect. True. But for this example, it is because, you know, but okay, I should have said one X or something. So I could move either way with it. You're right. Very, very short. Okay. So why do we do this? The brain has an energy saver. And lucky for us, because if your brain would be on all the time and in thinking mode, it would consume about a quarter of your energy. And for something that has a weight of only 2% of your whole body, using a quarter of your energy, that's a lot. So your brain taught itself to go into saving mode. Saving mode is very easy because we have all these heuristics. We see a range. We say, oh, you can see that, that's 25. I don't have to go and calculate. I don't have to go and check. I see it. It's right there. I see a pattern.  So the brain has, if they call it neuroplasticity, it forms new paths between your neurons. And when you do that often enough, they become common sense. Later on, we go into the guys that deny COVID and stuff like that. That has a reason. No one is that stupid, right? I hope. Okay, so there's a few of those, and some of them are very funny, and some of them are not. Actually, they're all not, but some are, you can laugh about them. The expert heuristic, if there is an expert and we know that he is or she is, then we believe him. If the doctor tells me that something is wrong, I believe him. If my garage tells me there is something wrong with my car, wrong example, maybe about doctors, normally you trust. So there's the consistency heuristic.  There are several sources, and they all say the same, well, it should be true, right? That's the consistency heuristic. Then there's a bandwagon heuristic, and that's everybody does it. Who of you has WhatsApp on their phone? On a hacker camp? Are you kidding? Okay. Who is a signal? And who of you has trouble convincing their family and friends to leave WhatsApp alone? Almost everyone, right? And what's the argument you always get? Yeah, they all have it. I won't miss out, because if I don't have WhatsApp, I can't ask such all my friends. So I have this discussion with my dad, he says, yeah, all my friends are on WhatsApp. I say, you have only two friends left, the rest is dead. He doesn't like that argument, but it's true. So there's no reason for him to be on signal, but I couldn't win that argument as a social engineer. That's very frustrating. So I found another way to win it, even though his argument was valid in his eyes. I said, okay, so you don't want any pictures of your grandchild. Now he has signal. That's very good. That's a bandwagon heuristic. Persuasive intent is actually reverse. I have this very strongly.  That's the persuasive intent heuristic. And on the expectancy violation heuristic, I have a slide to illustrate that. It's very funny, but it's in Dutch. So this is the expert heuristic. In the old days, this was the expert. He was on a square in the market and he was there and this was the doctor, right?  We'll let something out and then you'll be fine and take this. It's only four pieces of gold, but it helps against everything. Sounds a bit like the guy that comes over to your office and said, look, I have the problem to all your network solutions, all your network problems, right? I said it right. I have the problem to all your network solutions, but this guy has a nice silk tie and he comes over to you and says, look, if you buy this, you have no further problems. This is a super modern firewall and it's smart and it has blockchain. Recognize this? These guys, but it's the same as this guy. So I have some experts here. Any opinions? Who is the real expert? We have this guy from a Dutch commercial a long time ago. He's from ACA, he's from ACA. Expert. Okay, then person B, the guy from Twitter, expert, okay, C, that's an actor with a white coat pretending to be a dentist, no. Remember that guy with D, remember him? He was hilarious. That was great. I mean, war is never funny, but this guy was. He should have had a red nose. There are no American tanks in Iraq and you saw them pass by behind him. It was hilarious. So then he's the Dutch weather guy, expert, yeah, maybe, okay. Let's continue. Yomanda, remember Yomanda? You're all healed, if only. And then we have who's that, G, I don't think anyone at a hacker congress would have heard of this woman. Expert, well, maybe an expert social engineer, we don't know, but the true expert is the weather guy. He has two masters and five bachelors in all kinds of climate studies. He knows a lot about his work. And the fact that he comes on TV and very casually tells you that the sun's going to shine tomorrow doesn't mean that he is not very, very, very smart, like because he is. Okay, and then context is also very important. I know a lot of PCs, computers, cybers, cybers. I know a lot of cybers you all do know a lot of cybers, but don't let me do that because that will not play out well. So then there's the consistency he was sick. I told you about this already. It is about fake news. And when you read it over and over and over and over again, it might become true for you. The danger is that we form bubbles. The algorithms of Facebook, Twitter and all the other stuff there, they are meant for only one thing, to keep you on their side, to keep you watching, reading, looking, and they can do that by only one way. And that's by showing you more of what you already like. So they choose for you what news you get to see. And you don't get to see any contradictory news because you don't like that and you might just close your browser. So they show you more of the same. Only they don't check if it's true what they show you. Ben Weyn, we talked about this persuasive intent. I like the illustration on this one. And this is for the Dutch guys here. I'll just give you a second to read them all. Expectancy violation has to do with, you have an expectancy in this case, it's the city and you might think that guys working for the city, doing all kinds of official business, they know what they're doing, right? Well, they don't, at least not always. And these are examples of really, really gross spelling mistakes. Very funny ones as well. I mean, this here in, this should mean goes for the entire street. But the way they spell it means there's money for the entire street. So maybe they won this post-codal today, you know, the truck comes in. That could be true, but why put a sign up? This is weird, so I like the expectancy violation bias. It's very nice. Sometimes people make mistakes, and this is a pretty rough story. We have the Dutch Ministry of Defense, and I can speak about this because it's a long time ago and it's fixed in the meantime, but this is the website of Miroslav Mindev. And the domain is Mindev.nl. But that is also with one different, one little letter difference. It's the Ministry of Defense.nl. So the guy that ran this domain got all kinds of emails for the Dutch Ministry of Defense, because people made a little spelling mistake, and those were not funny, these males. So when people make mistakes, even tiny ones, it can have large consequences. And if we can get people to make these mistakes based on the heuristics we already know, we just invite you to make the mistake, like the little table there. It was not 25, but it's very easy to go for it, and you're in trouble, right? So truth. What is true? And this is a very hot discussion at this moment. Something seemed true. Some things feel true. It has to do with experience and what you can see and what you can hear and what you can touch. But is it? When I do a car trick or a trick with some ropes would turn out to be the same length or they don't, people see it happen. But what you see is not what's happening, and what's happening is not what you see. That's the definition of an illusion. And that, having said, truth is very, very fluid indeed. So in the U.S., they have this very, very cool oath when you go before a judge. Guys know that? You hear it on TV all the time, right? Do you suddenly swear to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth? I think this is genius. Because what you say is, okay, do you swear to tell the truth?  You just tell something that's not true. The other one, the whole truth covers lies of omission, stuff you leave out. And it's also very easy to do. Yeah, I went to Bolivia on a business trip. I don't have to tell people that I have a mistress there. It was actually a business trip. Sorry, dear. Not true, by the way.  Because how many times have you seen this in the courtroom dramas that a suspect does not really answer the question, but say, look, I'm a respectable guy. I would never do something like that. I'm a Bible salesman, and I'm volunteering at the school, and I'm doing this, I'm doing... He didn't answer the question. He's trying to get away around... And these are lies of influence. Just by getting yourself into what we call the halo effect being a true angel. Become an angel, by the way. That's very... They need angels. But getting yourself on that level of, look, I would never... You know, it's also lying, but it's very, very subtle and it's very hard to catch. And this is... Sometimes it's... How do you say that politely?  Ampto nareis. It's the language that civil servants tend to use. I see a lot of memos in my line of work, and I have to take a lot of time to decipher what they really say. And for the Dutch speaking, these are, and I have permission to show these, these are actually WhatsApp messages of students working with the Dutch government, trainees, talking to each other about what they're going to do next. And if you read their WhatsApps, holy shit, that's not going to be funny if this guy really gets to be a civil servant, or this guy. That is bad. But we do that ourselves because this is part of the ampto narevet. It's the rules on regulation that dictate what a civil servant should and should not do. Look how that is written. Could you expect for any normal person to know what this says exactly with all the ins and outs? You need a lawyer for that. You can't do that. And that causes a lot of mistakes as well. And then this is a favorite of mine. It has been decided. Laid on the Form is in Dutch. I don't really know the English translation for Laid on the Form because I'm not a grammar student. Passive tense? Thanks. Passive tense. So you say, well, it has been decided. And so what has been decided? By who? When? What were the parameters? What were you guys talking about anyway? What meeting was that? And who decided? And was he even competent to do that? Or was he in charge? Anyway, no, it has been decided. We talked about it. So be careful when you see this in a memo. Always try to get things very clear.  So I don't know. I don't understand. Just be clear and short. If you can't put it on the back of a coaster, I won't read it. They hate me for that. This is true. Then there's critical thinking. This is a problem we have a lot these days. But I saw it on the internet, so it must be true. I saw it a lot of times on the internet. Oh, that's a consistency heuristic, right? But if you're in a certain bubble and things get filtered out, you don't know what gets left out of your bubble. It's a very dangerous thing to do. Anyone can learn to be a critical thinker, but no one seems to be or do so. Because it's inconvenient. You need your system, too, the slow system for that. And that takes a lot of energy, which we don't always have, not the time, not the energy. So that's a problem. There is a drug to help you. So you could take this if any of this comes your way. And this is a grain of salt. So think about that when you hear some raffle and it comes over you like a thunderstorm. Take this grain of salt. Take a step back.  And if you're too fatigued or pressed for time or whatever, just don't do it. So look, I have to look at this more closely. I'll get back to you.  New silos are very dangerous. This is where the consistency heuristic lives. I told you about the Facebooks and the Twitter and Instagrams. They want you to stay on their page. So they will always tell you what you want to hear, not what you should hear. And they tell all your friends, too. And they select friends for you to see in that same bubble. That's very dangerous. We tried this with several accounts. We made new accounts. And we posted just one remark on Twitter at one account and the other. And one was for Trump and the other was against Trump. And we left the accounts alone. And after a while, we looked at their separate timelines. That was horrifying, the differences that you see and the truth in quotation marks that they try to tell you. Because actually the one that was quite positive about Trump got a love. This is true. And this is true. And Trump is a great guy. And you would almost believe it. And the other one was exactly the opposite. It can't both be true, right? This guy says it very well. If you want to take a picture of the screen, this is the picture you should take. He says these bubbles, you don't get to decide what gets in or out. And you don't know what gets left out. This is a very, very strong remark. And always be aware of this. Thanks. So you have an opinion, right? That's great. These guys, if you know Dutch politics, these are the most left guy and the most right guy. And they try to make you believe that there is such a thing as left and right, which there is obviously not. I mean, you can be all for climate, and we have to save the climate. And I think so too. But you can't be against a lot of other things that we also need to just only save the climate and only give money to poor people and be very, very, very left.  You have to keep thinking about each separate problem and try to get to the bottom of it. A lot of people don't get that. But I've looked into this, and Daniel Ofman has made a diagram. And I thought I could use that to illustrate what I mean. So if you take a core quality, let's say we have mobility, you want to get from here to there, and maybe you work a long way from home, so you need a car, right? But a car comes with problems. If it's too much, we have pollution, we have traffic jams, we have all these things. So we need to mitigate. We need to find some ways, and that could be anything. We could make bigger or better roads or more roads or less cars or try to spread traffic over a period of time, or there's a lot of things we could talk about to mitigate the problem that arises from mobility.  Amsterdam sucks, by the way. If you have a car, don't go there. So that's the allergy. Don't go there. And what we see is when you have a debate about things, best do it in the green zone. This is what we actually want. We recognize the problems, and we have a challenge. And let's talk about this. What you see in debate, in politics, is guys going nuts about that. Because it's very strong, right? Ban all combustion engines. Yeah, good for you, right? But it's not a discussion you should want to see. It should be in the green zone. So and then there is, of course, the Dunning-Kruger effect. Heard about it? I love the Dunning-Kruger effect. The theory is that the less you know about something, the more you feel like knowing about it. So when I bought a computer in 1983, I learned some basic, and I did some which I'm the biggest expert in the street. And in fact, I was, because I was the only computer user in the street, but you get a lot of confidence from that. And of course you do.  So that's probably when you think that you are somewhere here on the slope of enlightenment, but everyone seems to start at the peak of Mount Stupid. Your confidence is really high, but your knowledge is not. And I love this diagram. It's my favorite slide of the entire deck. So then there is influence by proxy, and Cendric hates me for leaving this in.  It's Rian van Rijbroek against Gerard Zandering.  He's a millionaire. He knows what he's doing. The only reason he believes in her is that he doesn't get any other information. He's in a bubble. So that's a problem. And influence by proxy, he is the boss of all these companies, but she runs them. It's very dangerous. This I'll leave for now. This is why I'm in with brevity. When I get a very long memo, and it's very elaborate, and there is a lot of passive tense, thanks, I just send it back. So I don't get what you're saying here. It's too long to read. It's too complicated for me. I don't get it.  So explain me like I'm five. And you got a lot of discussion about that and say, okay, but you're not five years old. You went to university. Yes, I know, but explain like I'm five because it prevents you from lying and hiding it. So, and that's actually very hard to get to the point. So that's why this phrase is very nice. I'm sorry I had to write such a long letter, but I didn't have time to write a short one because you have to think about that. Get to the point. Okay, phishing, I'll leave out because everyone here knows about phishing, right? This is a very nice tweet. These are some random shots that I collected here and there. The professor fooling you. He is a security philosopher. Actually, it's me. And he said, well, criminals, they have a new way to make you pay a lot of money for anything. So for only $3,500, I'll tell you all about it. Of course, this is funny, right? But not why you think it is.  That's not what it is. Because in the boardrooms, we get swindled a lot. And if you get a consultant for $3,500 and he says, look, that is 1.6 million not well spent. I wouldn't do that. That's money well spent, right? They save you from a lot of trouble. So nothing is really what it seems. This seems to be a bad idea, but it's not. Not in every case. So just give me the $35,000 and it's good. Here are some countermeasures. Most of them I already touched. Ask for clarity and details. And just tell them it's too long. Too long. I didn't read. It's too complicated. Make it simple. Make simple statements. I want to know what you're actually saying. Go to your system to think about it. Don't let yourself get pressed into time.  Ten minutes. Thanks. We have the frontal lobe, the prefrontal cortex. This is where your thinking happens. This is what most of us do here. Then there's the middle part, which is mostly medical. There is all kinds of subsistence there, hormones, drugs. There's all kinds of stuff going on there. And then there is the reptilian brain. And this is the link to the Jurassic Park, the dinosaur at the front, which is actually the boss of them all. And this is where fear, flight, fights, all those responses come from. So if you try to tap in this here, all the other brain parts will be silent or at least distorted enough not to function very well.  You see a nice lady and think, oh, that's nice. And this stops working. That's why, ladies, that's why we do that.  This is the boss. Scare them. Propose. That's very scary. So call in external expertise. That's a very good countermeasure. And discuss scope creep. We have seen that in several projects, also in Amsterdam, the new subway system, way over time, way over budget, but it couldn't go back. So that's a problem. Discuss it and discuss the exit terms.  Okay, we'll just stop, get some landfill, close it up. Shame. So you have to discuss those things. Our world in data, I just wanted to mention it. It's a very good resource for statistics. If you want to know if something is actually true, poverty is rising. Well, these guys, they kept record of poverty over the last 20 years. So go look. Is it actually true? Our world in data is very good. Yes. So reclaim your brain, get rid of bad apps from your phone. I told you the talk is actually bigger, so I tell people to get rid of WhatsApp and stuff like that. Browser extensions, that's also for the larger part. And ask questions. This is very important. Try to be the boss of the conversation and try to pinpoint all the heuristics they're getting to. And you know, marketeers, good marketeers, they know all this stuff already. It's up to you to also know. Task segregation, we also know, communicate. This is important as well. If I social engineer someone, let's say I want to get into this complex here and I don't have a ticket and I go try it that way and I make a lot of fuss and they send me away and I'll try the other entrance. And they don't know about me. It might work. But if those guys get on the radio and say, look, there's a weird guy here trying to get in, so everyone be able to look out, you know, it's weird. My chances are very slim after that. So these are some sources. Herschneck, it's a Dutch, Maghriet Sitzkorn, Neurosurgeon, very, very good book. Read it. Factfulness, Hans Rosling, he's no longer alive, but he left us a great book. And Richard Nisbitt with Mindware, also very, very well recommended. And listen to the podcast because it's fun. No, you don't have to. Right, Cyber, thank you. And if there's any questions, I'll be happy to answer. Great, if you have a question, please line up by the microphone in the middle. And first we'll check with Signal. So we, okay, none for the internet right now. Why don't you go ahead and start with the first question? I thank you at first for the talk. It was very interesting and I learned a lot. I was wondering about the principle of people like which are in extremely bubbles, but they know, but they think everyone else is in a bubble. So they know the theory about bubbles. They know the theory about how you get the information you want. But they think they're the only one with the truth and that everyone else is being lied to in the bubble and etc.  They only, they use it to discredit everyone else. Can you tell us if you have some tips? Yeah, of course, these are complot theories and this works exactly that way. There's bubbles and they get served all the stuff they want to hear. And sometimes some little proof seeps in. Like we have a picture of the earth, right? It's not flat, but they just deny that. See, look, but you're all out to get us. I see this the entire day and everybody is telling me and so you must be wrong. And that's what's happening. And if your bubble gets large enough, you tend to be, you know, these neuro parts, the new parts that you are creating by constantly seeing the same and the same and the same over again, these parts are very hard to break. So this is what happens. Most curious in this, like they tell, so they know that bubbles exist. They know that, oh, you're in a bubble. So why can't they mirror that to their own situation? Why? Because if I get a new theory, like if I hear this and I wouldn't know about it, I think, oh, maybe this applies to me. Maybe this, but how can you know that it exists but then not applying it to yourself? That's the thing like I'm wondering what happens. That's called confirmation bias. And you are naturally inclined to always look at what supports your belief. So things that don't support your belief, they don't feel good because nobody likes to be wrong. So I have some pieces of information and because of the bubble, I have a lot of this and there is this and that doesn't just feel good. So I'll try to find some reasons to deny it or ignore it or whatever because, and that's confirmation bias. You're always looking for confirmation. What you already think is the truth. That's a natural tendency. It's one of the heuristics. And we just have time for one last question if it's somewhat brief and direct, concise like he was advising. I'll try. Thank you for the talk. Can you talk a bit about how you got started with social engineering? Excuse me? Can you talk a bit about how you started with social engineering? Oh, this is a very long story. If you guys like, I'd be over there somewhere or we'll find a nice spot, drink some water, do drink water and just find me here and we can talk some more if you like. And given his expertise, you should engage to see what it's like to be social with a social engineer. And with that, let's thank him again for amazing time. That's horrifying, I can tell you.