Okay, should we start? Thank you very much for coming. This talk is going to be about Jigsaw in Debian. My name is Tom Marble. With me to present is Guillaume Mazogier. And also with us in the audience is Sebeste Lytlu. And we have all been collaborating on Jigsaw for Debian. This has been an interest of mine for some time. And let me tell you what we're going to cover in this talk. We're going to give you a brief overview of what Jigsaw is and why it might be interesting. Then we're going to discuss Google Summer of Code and the project that Guillaume has been working on. Sebeste and I are his mentors for Summer of Code. I'm going to talk a little bit about some of the new features in JDK 7 and JDK 8, including some notes from the JVM Language Summit, which took place at Oracle last week. And the next steps in our progress towards packaging Jigsaw for Debian. So first of all, what is Jigsaw? Jigsaw is the modularization of the JDK. The way that upstream handles version control is they use Mercurial as a VCS and maintain a number of different forests, as they say, for different parts of the project. And there's one of them, which is Mercurial Forest for Jigsaw, which is the name of the modular JDK. The idea is basically to break apart the JDK into multiple interdependent parts for a number of reasons, but mainly because the JDK has grown over time and has become quite massive. Some of you may know due to the inner workings of the JDK that all of the classes, the libraries that you expect when you run a Java program, are in one big jar file called RT.jar. And what Jigsaw does is it breaks it up into many, many smaller jar files. As a consequence, we'll be replacing the class path with the module path, which is similar in purpose. But hopefully, and this is one of the other main benefits, is hopefully this will get us out of the jar dependency hell that we've been living in, especially when we find upstreams that have been including library jars and their distributions and things like this. So here's a very, very simplified dependency graph for what the JDK looks like in terms of functionality. All of the functionality rests on the base module, and there are a number of things which depend directly on that, but there are some parts of the JDK which are a little bit further away in the graph. For example, you'll find that Corba and Kerberos are kind of at peripheral nodes of the graph, and if your program doesn't need those, there's no point in you loading those and parsing those jar entries for the startup of your program. Similarly, you'll see that there are a lot of XML-related functionalities or web service functionalities that may not be required for certain programs. And of course, if you're running a server-oriented program, there's no point in pulling in swing in all of the GUI-related classes. So this actually should make it easier to maintain and easier to debug as well as faster. So as I mentioned, there are a number of reasons why the modularized JDK is interesting. One is the size, the overall size, but most importantly, the size that you actually need in terms of depends for your packages. As a consequence, also the runtime memory needs should be much more modest and startups should be much quicker. As a matter of fact, Upstream has even considered that with a modularized JDK like this, we could imagine Java SE, or standard edition, running even on memory constrained mobile types of devices. And this represents a huge shift from the past where there were, as you may recall, there used to be Java mobile edition, standard edition, and enterprise edition. And now the modularized JDK has a chance to reach down into what used to be only mobile type of targets. So just like Debian handles version dependencies between packages, Jigsaw handles version dependencies between modules. Our challenge in our opportunity is really to coordinate these two different dependency graphs between the JDK itself and then also user line programs and their corresponding Debian packages. Another reason that Jigsaw is interesting has to do with some of the new features that have come along since, for example, OpenJDK6, which is currently in the archive. And I'm going to talk about the new features in JDK7 and JDK8 a little bit later in the presentation. And another really interesting thing for us, hopefully that we'll get out of modularizing the JDK is a simpler boarding and bootstrapping process so that when we go to new architectures, it should be easier to bring up the JDK on those architectures. And maybe we can even simplify, hopefully, some of our build depends for Java itself, potentially even eliminating some of the need for either ECJ or GCJ. So why is Debian such an interesting fit? It turns out that Debian, I think, is really unique among the primary operating system distributions in having such a strong adherence to modular decomposition. And this is really the problem that the modularized JDK is trying to solve. Although it's not an obvious and quick fit because there are a couple of issues, one of them happens to be with version syntax. The current version syntax that is permitted by Jigsaw is very liberal and doesn't adhere to Debian policy, and we've notified upstream of that. But what's really interesting for us is sometimes in Debian we get interested in tackling solutions for us that also will benefit other distributions and even other operating systems. And this is a case where Java, because it's a cross-platform language, needs to work not just for Debian, not just for GNU Linux, but it needs to work on all platforms. And so to get to the point that Jigsaw is today, there have been some compromises and harmonization of some of the different approaches to modularity, including OSGI and Maven and, for example, other distribution techniques like Red Hat package management and so on. The plan of record, just so you know, is that it is planned that there will be compatibility between OSGI and Jigsaw. However, it's not exactly clear how that will be implemented. The original idea of Jigsaw is that you wouldn't have a lot of annotations in your class as OSGI would advocate. But what was really interesting in digging into this, we find that RPM, contrary to DEB, doesn't have a tight specification for the version syntax of packages. And I've confirmed this with a number of people. It's really kind of hard to believe, but I have not found, for example, a BNR grammar that expresses what an RPM package version could be. And I'd be really glad to be proved wrong. If anyone can point me to that, I'd really appreciate it. The reason that's so important is that when we start talking about dependency resolvers, having the version syntax accurate is really an essential prerequisite. So what we might end up doing is we might actually end up advocating some version syntax changes to upstream and or some adaptations or mappings of Jigsaw versions to Debian package versions. Upstream is aware of our project and is looking to us for some really good feedback. For a long time, upstream has made an attempt to package Java modules as Debian packages. Last year at DEB Conf 10, I spoke about this and why that current upstream packaging is inadequate. And I think that largely what they're doing is they're using their own tools for creating DEBs, but they don't adhere to Debian policy and most specifically do not use the DEB helper set of tools. And that's what we're trying to work on right now. And the timing is really important. Why Jigsaw now in Debian is that, as you may have heard, JDK7 was just officially released yesterday and now we're right in the middle of the development cycle for JDK8. And our experiences here could very largely influence upstream for all platforms. So with that, let me turn it over to Guillaume who will tell you a little bit about his Google Summer of Code project. So as you know now, Jigsaw has been selected as one of the Google Summer of Code in Debian, so I'm working on it and I'm still working on it now. The Google Summer of Code, we divided the Google Summer of Code into five parts and we're actually at the third part actually. So the first part of my work was to know how to build Jigsaw. Then we packaged some missing dependencies and send them into the archive. We also wrote some examples on how to use Jigsaw and then we are going to package Jigsaw and test it in Debian. So what we have done so far is building Jigsaw on AMD64. Jigsaw is a big piece of code, so it takes time to build and it takes time to run the test. We also packaged two packages that allow us to run the test. So we packaged GTRNES and GTREG. GTRNES is a library used by GTREG and GTREG is used to actually run the test inside of Jigsaw. After running the test, we had something like that. So 3,484 tests in Jigsaw and only 29 of them failed after running the full test suite. So I think it's pretty good. It's a pretty good result. Thank you. Most of the failures are due to network hard coding hosts which are machines inside Oracle so that we cannot reach by ourselves. And we also identified some failures due to GUNET and the ICT hackers helped us a lot to identify these tests and now they are aware of these tests and they may work on that. So now we have a repository of Jigsaw in Alioth which is a Git repository where you can find Jigsaw and all the scripts needed to build it. There is also a Debian directory which is not used yet because it's only a copy of the OpenJDK7 Debian directory. We applied the patch of Alan Bateman which is working on another version of the patch we applied which consists of using exploited modules inside of Jigsaw so we can have modules everywhere on the system and still use it, still use them, sorry. And then we run the test again to see if the patch didn't break anything. Just a word about that. The exploded modules patch is fairly important because without that you could only build and run against the system module library and not module library on disk so that's why we felt that applying this patch was really important to get some experience with Jigsaw. After that we were able to write some example modules so we are going to see one of the examples just now. Jigsaw introduced a new file which describes what is a module and what use a module inside of a Java project. So this file is called module-info.java and contains generally this kind of things. As you can see here we declare a module with module then its name and after its version number. And here is the next two lines are the module required for required to make the top module work and then we have the main class of the module to run when we launch the module. Let me just interject. How many of you in the audience have used or packaged Java libraries or applications? You're probably familiar with the Java helper tools that are there to help you package your Java libraries and applications and you can really imagine what we'll do to Java helper with Jigsaw is we'll expand it to read the module-info files and we'll extract the depends and the versioning out of these files and put that into the control file. So Jigsaw also introduced due to the fact that we can create modules a new file tree, file source tree I guess. This source tree contains now the name of each module that we can see after the modules directory. All modules must have modules-info.java which like we have seen before what modules are needed to run the actual module and then we can compile a module and we can compile actually the two modules in one command line but we don't need the class pass of Java anymore the class pass is actually replaced by the module pass. So Java C is still the compiler dash D is the directory where the modules will be installed will be compiled dash modules pass is the module pass where the modules of the GVM are and then source pass is where the source are and then the Java files. So with this we are going to have class files in the modules directory and now modules have to be installed on the system of course. So we have to create a module library. A module library can be a user module library actually it's not the system module library and you can create it with gmod gmod create a module library called mlib and mlib will contain the modules that we just compiled. A module library depends is linked actually to a parent module library that we can specify with dash p with a dash p option but here we don't specify the dash p option so the module library will be linked to the system module library which contains actually the modules of the GVM then we install the modules with gmod installed and here we install the two modules called org astro and cone greetings inside the mlib module library. After that we can just run the modules and get our nice hello world. With this we can define a module library for the system and a module library for the user so in the future JXO packaging I guess we will be able to separate GVM modules from applications modules installed by Java applications and here Tom is going to speak to you about the next step we are going to do during this course. Thanks. So as Guillaume pointed out there is a system module library and there are user libraries as well so our current thinking right now as to where we will locate these things as you probably know the JVMs live under right now user live JVM name and so the thought is perhaps the JXO module library will simply be at that path under modules and that just as we put jars for Java libraries and user share Java we will put shared modules module libraries and user share Java modules so that is subject to some change but that is our current thinking right at the moment and one of the other things that I mentioned earlier is we are going to review bootstrapping and how we actually build JXO So another very important thing that we need to do in the work on packaging for Debian is we want to integrate the fine work and patches of the ICT project and I will say a little bit more about that on the next slide. I also want to benefit from the current OpenJDK packaging that has been done that is already adding a lot of specific features for Debian and I think we want to consider adding some new features as well and the one in particular that I am thinking about is coming from what is called the MVLM project or the multi-language virtual machine project which is that project is really geared at supporting different languages on top of the JVM like JRuby, Scala, Clojure and so on and the patch that I am most interested in is TLC or the tail call optimization patch For a lot of these dynamic libraries on top of the JVM they often use recursion as an idiom and with the tail call patch we should be able to do that without growing the stack as much and that should result in much better performance and better memory or less memory use Then of course we are going to take the upstream test suite based on JTreg and we are going to run that again and make sure that we are able to pass completely and show that we haven't broken anything this is one of the reasons that we invested the time up front and making sure that we had the test suite ready to go and then we are also going to performance test it and see actually how well it does versus the classic JDK and then we are going to do our best to push our changes upstream both to ICT and then ultimately to Oracle So I think it is worth saying just a word Any of you are familiar with the ICT project? Okay, so good, there are a few of you that are aware of it but some of you that aren't aware of it ICT is a purely community based collaborative effort which is really I think the best way to describe it is a build harness for OpenJDK Originally when Sun liberated Java and I can say we because I used to be at Sun at the time we shipped Java requiring at build time some binary plugs basically you needed some non-free build depends in order to build OpenJDK and of course the free software community wouldn't accept that and so the solution was to develop ICT such that OpenJDK could be built from purely free software components Fortunately, that need for closing non-free plugs is no longer there, those have all been patched or closed upstream but there are still some things ICT continues to provide immense value to the community because it adds things like pulse audio support as well as Java plug-in and web start much to our disappointment Oracle has decided has not yet decided to liberate Java plug-in and web start and so the community is adopting open source tools to solve those needs and certainly for us at Debian another thing that we benefit from with ICT is support for additional platforms and that's done through what's called the zero interpreter and the shark just-in-time compiler the zero interpreter is called that because it builds on Linux without any assembly code and it's kind of slow but it's a great way of getting on to new platforms and then shark is based on that and depends on LLVM and we have had multiple discussions with ICT about collaborating and helping the community at large not just Debian package jigsaw and as Guillaume had mentioned he had some really good collaboration with ICT on understanding why some of the test failures occurred and closing those bugs so now let me just say a couple of words about what's coming in JDK7 and JDK8 because I think that it'll be of interest to this group and is very apropos to jigsaws you'll see in a second JDK7 adds a lot of new features to the JDK but there's some that I think are worth calling out most notably extensions to the concurrency models with the fork join framework so as Java is used for progressively larger enterprise class applications on very large machines this set of tools will help developers author programs that can be easily decomposed on multiprocessor systems and then coalesce those results so that's really an extension of the concurrency utilities and then there are a lot of other things a new IO library, class loader enhancements new improvements to exceptions and one in particular that I want to say a little bit more about is this thing called JSR 292 or invoke dynamic last week at the JVM language summit there was a lot of discussion about invoke dynamic and I don't want to try and recap all of that for you but I want to give you a couple of highlights the basic idea is in supporting languages built on top of the JVM there is a need to have effectively the idea of a function pointer and the idea is you want to connect Java code that's sort of classically in the JDK with bytecode that was created by your, for example, your JRuby compiler or have your JRuby programs call into the Java libraries without a lot of extra overhead and it turns out that using this new bytecode that was added to the Java language specification we now can call functions across that sort of native Java or basic Java and, you know, derived language boundary very quickly and that reduces the amount of sort of boilerplate bytecode that's required for that function interface but I think the most important and most compelling feature of invoke dynamic is it allows the hotspot compiler to do its magic optimizations across that language boundary so, for example, you could write a really complicated and interesting program in JRuby or, for example, in Scala and if it's wired up using invoke dynamic hotspot could actually see through from the Java code into your Scala code and do all of the cool things that it's doing escape analysis, inlining, loop enrolling method optimization and substitution and so on and that I think is very interesting and I think that this is something to look for at JDK 7. So what about getting this cool stuff in Debian? Well, it turns out that there is already some packaging of open JDK 7 in the experimental repository and that work was done by Matias and Debian and we have some issues right now building on MIPS and MIPSL but just before this talk we were talking in the hallway and we think we might have a potential fix for this so stay tuned we're hoping to close that bug. There's work ongoing and porting that to KFreebsd and part of what we're thinking is that once we get this building on all the architecture is what we'd like to do is rebuild the archive or at least the Java parts of the archive with open JDK 7 with the hope that we can convince the release team to make this a release goal for Weezy. So now JDK 8. It turns out that Jigsaw or the modularization of the JDK is one of the primary drivers for JDK 8. So there are a lot of features on the table that have been discussed in a lot of enhancements to the system but Jigsaw is one that's absolutely critical for JDK 8 so we're really ahead of the next generation of the upstream release here. One of the really interesting things that I learned last week is that the build system for Java and JDK 8 is going to be completely redone right now if you build Jigsaw what happens is you go through sort of a classic multi-stage build of classic Java and then there's a make modules target and you kind of do all the work to create the modules as a second sort of post-processing step that's going to be eliminated. The build will start by building the base modules and then building up additional modules in the order of the dependency graph that you saw earlier. So that should make the build a lot quicker and a lot more efficient. Also the build is going to be streamlined so it's hopefully just a lot cleaner as well I mentioned the multi-language virtual machine patches hopefully we can add the tail call patch I think that it would be really interesting to do that and also to do some performance analysis on the impact of that with and without that patch to see does it bias as much as we think it does in fact on that point I just wanted to say that last week there was an awful lot of interest in performance measurement for Java generally but specifically about invoke dynamic and some of these other kinds of patches for example in discussing this with upstream some of the Oracle people last week they said we would love to make the case for adding the tail call patch that already exists to upstream or to the JDK8 builds but people need to be convinced that this actually is going to lead to a big performance improvement so I think that if we can measure it and we can demonstrate that it could very well get integrated by the time the JDK8 is released and also just measuring the performance of invoke dynamic is quite tricky so that's I think why there's so much interest in the broader community about performance testing and one of the issues that did come up is that Java is not the easiest language to do job control with when it comes to let's say designing a performance test harness and so there's a lot of discussion about reviewing or extending process builder to do better job control especially on platforms like Windows that do a particularly poor job of that. So with this let me call your attention to a couple of points. Guillaume's examples are largely taken from the jigsaw quick start guide which is on the open JDK website also there are most all of the presentations from the JVM language summit from last week are online at this page and if you're interested in jigsaw or Java generally in Debian I'd encourage you to send a mail to the Debian Java mailing list and with that that concludes our presentation. Other questions? Has anyone tried to package a Java upstream that has all kinds of build dependencies baked into their server? Okay. You can see the veteran Java guys have all struggled with that. Wouter? So one of my upstreams has decided to reimplement the JDK application in Java and I'm not entirely familiar with what the current state of things is. They're using Maven and everything which I know wants to download stuff. It's actually a recommended way of doing that in Debian that you can point me to or point people to. For doing I didn't quite hear. The thing is so that they are reimplementing some graphical application that now wants to in Java and then I want to use Maven in the build system. As I understand it Maven wants to download stuff during the build. This is also a very common problem or challenge in dealing with Java upstreams is they typically like to use Maven and what Maven is doing is it's doing two things for you. It's acting as effectively your make file, it's your build instructions, but it's also downloading build dependencies at build time and that's the part that's really problematic for Debian. As many of you may know Maven 2 has been packaged for Debian and my understanding is that that feature of downloading things has been disabled so that obviously we don't violate policy on our build demons. So this is an ongoing challenge. I think that one approach to doing that is to sort of basically manually tease out the build depends within that build file so that you don't need them. Another approach would be to use Maven as it's packaged in the archive now and I'm wondering if I could ask Torsten to maybe say a comment about Maven support. Torsten do you have any additional thoughts to add about how we should handle that? No. I cannot add something useful here. It would be certainly interesting to build or to get other upstream project to use it as a way to modelize their project or to use it as build depends and as run time dependencies. But I don't know if some other project is already thinking about it. Do you know something about this? I think it's really too early to expect upstreams to do that, but I think that we need a better approach of handling this case where upstreams are using Maven because it is a very common problem. Other questions? Okay well thank you very much for coming. Thank you.


An ion is a charged atom. Here we see two of them, a calcium and a strontium ion. They are superb controllable quantum systems and we'll see we can store information into either one. Suppose our strontium is initially in state zero. We can apply a pulse of energy to switch it to state one. Later for readout we can use a laser that would have no effect on state zero. But our ion in state one will absorb energy and then emit it back as a photon, a particle of light which we can detect. Let's zoom out. We see gold strips below. These produce electric fields holding our ions still without physically touching them. And again we see a laser causing an ion to become excited and emit its photon. Zooming out further we see the gold strips are part of a small chip called an ion trap. And then we see surrounding electrical and cooling systems. A final zoom reveals the entire system is encased in a vacuum chamber which protects it from the atmosphere. Surrounding the vacuum chamber are laser systems, field coils and crucially a photonic link system to capture the photons into an optical fiber. This complete module is a small quantum processor but now considered two linked modules. When photons meet at the entangler unit in the middle, the ions that created those photons become quantum entangled. And so the two modules combine as a single quantum machine. Extending this idea we can have an entire array of modules. We can switch connections so that a module links either to a nearby neighbor or to another far away. In this way we can have a highly connected and scalable quantum brain.


Well, ladies and gentlemen, it is now time for our next session for the day, which is going to be a panel discussion titled Disclosure Dictat. Our panelists will be discussing the impact of the ASCII guidelines have on digital creators and brands that rely on them for their advertising needs. Well, join me in welcoming our panelists. First up, Manisha Kapoor, Secretary General, the Advertising Standard Council of India. We've got Lakshmi Balasubramanian, CEO and Co-Founder, Green Room, Sagar Push, CEO and Co-Founder, Clank Connect, Viraj Sate, Shate, the Co-Founder and CEO of Monk Entertainment, Shaheer Munir, Founder and Director, Divo. We've got Vikram Kari, Senior Director, Product Head, Inka and finally the session chair for this panel discussion, Nazia Rehman, Editor, Exchange for Media. But with this, I'd like to humbly welcome all our panelists on the screen. Great smiles, great energy from all of you kudos. Thank you for joining us on this virtual platform today. And I'm going to be passing it on to our moderator today, Nazia, to take it forward with the her panel. How are you doing, Nazia? Great. Over to you, Nazia. Take. Hello, everyone. Thank you so much for joining us on a Friday afternoon. Manisha and Brad, you could make it. You were supposed to be going down for some meeting. You said you might be on role. Yeah, I managed to postpone that, so I'm happy to do that. Thank you. Thank you so much. So Bhavna has already introduced each one of you. And I think we should start with the panel discussion. It's a very interesting topic. And I think we have to start with Manisha, because she is the one who has given us this topic. This dig that has come from her. And I don't know how many of you have read our report, which has just released an hour ago about the numbers, you know, that in India alone, I think this industry is going to have 900 crore to be spent on influencer marketing in the coming year. So this is going to be an annual thing now. We are going to do this report annually. If you've not read it, you must go to Euphorum website and read it right away. So I mean, before I start, you know, I'm not an expert like all you guys, but all I know is that there was a time when we were kids and in a classroom, a teacher would ask what do you aspire to be when you grow up? I mean, 90 percent students would say they would want to be a doctor. Now when I have kids and I interact with a lot of little kids, they all want to be an influencer.  He's been after me that channel. He wants to be an influencer. And some of his friends have already launched their channels. They're already on YouTube making videos and all. So perhaps because of kids and adults like these, Manisha had to come out with a long list of guidelines on, you know, how should influencers and brands conduct themselves when using this medium for marketing. So Manisha, we will first start with you. What I would want to understand is how are you ensuring that these guidelines are followed because, you know, giving guidelines and you've made very interesting guidelines, but how many people are actually following it? And if they're not following it, what all are you doing? Yeah, thanks, Nazia. And, you know, much as you make me sound very dictatorial, I hope I'm not that, but I think, you know, for us at ASCII, it's always a balance of, you know, making sure we don't stifle creativity, but we also want to make sure that, you know, things are fair for consumers and all of us as consumers want to be honestly told things as well. So I think I'll just share a few numbers. You know, it's been about three months since we kind of got the guidelines out. We started our monitoring service sometime in July. And so far we've received about 300 complaints. So that's not a small number. In three months. So it's almost like 100 complaints a month. Yes, yes. So almost three complaints a day, you can kind of take it as that of people pointing out that, you know, a certain influencer has not disclosed the guidelines correctly or, you know, has not carried the disclosure label. So one is that we are very happy that people are pointing this out. So that, you know, it just means that there are people who are aware and there are people who are kind of taking note of the guidelines and, you know, they are kind of pointing out when things are not done.  So that's that's great news to start off with. And, you know, the news gets better. So in 80% of these cases, you know, when we talk to the influencer or the advertiser, they immediately connected. Okay, so it's only in 20% of the cases where it either takes time or they would like to contest it saying that, no, it's not promotional. And then of course, in some cases, they're able to demonstrate that it is not promotional or, you know, there is no material connect between them and the advertiser. But in 80% of the cases, we do have influencers who immediately kind of admit to their mistake and in a matter of hours, you know, make the corrections on their posts. That's one. Manisha, what would be the profile of these influencers, you know, largely against whom you're getting complaints are the other the bigger ones or or the less known one? It's a mix. It's a mix. So certainly, we do have some of the big names. But it's a fair mix across, you know, so, so that's that's the good thing. If you just see our monitoring mechanism, what we've seen is that if you take about 100 ads, which appear to be promotional, you know, we see that about 25% of them are strictly following the guidelines. Okay, in all respects, that the disclosure label is there, it is put in the way it is meant to be put and all of that. What is not too bad is that there's another 60, 65% who have some kind of disclosure even though it's not technically right. Okay, so there is some attempt at being transparent. I mean, the disclosure may not be the exact words or the labels that we've given it may not be upfront, it may not be all those kind of things. But there is some disclosure as part of the post. And that to me is interesting because it means that people have started recognizing even if they've not embraced the guidelines fully, but there is, I think that clock at the back of their mind saying that, yes, you know, we need to be more transparent.  And then we have about 10 to 12% where there is absolutely no disclosure of any sort.  So I would say it's a great start. I'm very encouraged by these numbers, both in terms of the number of complaints coming in, as well as at least seeing a shift of people who are trying to be compliant, even if they're not there fully. But I do appreciate the fact that there is some attempt at, you know, being transparent. Now, if I can have a saga or a virage, I mean, we can start with saga, you know, how has, how have these guidelines affected influence or marketing as a domain? As in like, I have, I have people become a little hesitant, you know, now that there are so many guidelines to be followed, or its business as usual? To be very honest, I don't personally feel that there are a lot of guidelines that need to be followed. It is about time that we had a process, you know, and I look at this from a very, very positive perspective, actually, it just goes on to prove and show that influencer marketing is actually becoming a different advertising currency itself, right? I mean, you would only want to regularize a system which is, which definitely has a potential to, of course, become big. And with anything becoming big, there are chances that it can be misused. And that we could see that, you know, any and every person would come create a content. And some people are vulnerable to follow these people. And, you know, they may get impacted in a negative way. So, so it's a good thing. From our side, what we need to, what we ensure, actually, is that, you know, it is not just the influencers, it is also the brands who need to be informed. Because as much as we like influencer marketing, the brands also want the content to look organic, right? And the moment there is a paid tag, you know, collaboration or a hashtag which carries it, eventually people will start realizing, you know, that it's influencer campaign, which is not really organic, you know, post or something. So some brands are totally fine. A few of them need to be convinced and told that this is a guideline that we need to follow. Influences, so long as they are, you know, getting paid, and I can say that, you know, the things are looking very, very positive.  And they are responsible voices, you know, it cannot be that they just come in and they say something, because it does impact the decision making of people who follow them. So to be honest, at my end, at least, we have some resistance in terms of, you know, bringing them on board, but not as much as, you know, saying a complete no or anything. I mean, that they are most of them are fine. Most of the big influences, by the way, were anywhere following this. I mean, anyone who's a verified handle or something, they had been doing paid collaborations on Instagram for sure. Now on YouTube, and other platforms also we ensure that the guidelines are followed. Viraj, how about you? I mean, this is one question that I would want all of you do. I mean, share your perspective on. So I personally, again, I go what Sagar just mentioned, it doesn't feel like it's an extremely tedious job to add paid partnership tag or a hashtag ad on a post that they're getting paid for. So it doesn't seem like any big inconvenience to influence us specifically. There are certain cases when the brand in fact is a little wary of wanting to put it or not. And then we have to sort of go out and tell them explicitly that, you know what, it's better to get a few lesser likes on your post than to get a notice from asking. So it's just like, so I think that's happening now. And brands are also understanding that's fine, like need to eventually adhere to these guidelines anyway, the best interests of all parties involved. So don't really see an issue anymore. Plus I also don't feel like, at least with regards to something like Instagram Reels or even YouTube videos, the engagement has not fallen at all, honestly, when it comes to a lot of creators using paid partnership tags, which is sort of comes as a surprise. But it's, I mean, it all makes us all happy that thank God that the audience is also receptive in a positive way to these disclosures, right? It's not like if they see their favorite creator using a paid partnership tag, they're skipping that video and all credit to the influencers and the branch of allowing them to be as organic as possible with the content. So I feel like it's, it's just business as per usual. I have not seen a dip in terms of influencer marketing money is being spent. In fact, most of the anything else, I feel like this year and the years to come forward, the spends are only going to increase with the amount of influencers coming into the space, the amount of D2C brands, the amount of startups, the amount of big corporates opening up to influencer marketing is just going to increase. So I mean, good for all of us that act this panel, we're all going to benefit out of that. But yeah, most of the anything else was needed. And it's very welcome. And I don't see it having a negative impact at all. Any of those stakeholders. Lakshmi, can I have you? Sure, absolutely. I mean, I'm going to have to agree with, you know, everyone so far that I think it's a very welcome move. It's something that, you know, like Virajan, Sardar also mentioned, it only goes to show that, you know, this, this form of this kind of influencer marketing, this form of marketing and advertising is only increasing and becoming mainstream, right? So which is, which is something that we all kind of look forward to. And the more larger the spends get for something, the more, you know, it needs to get streamlined, there needs to be rules and processes in place. We do have had trouble. In our case, we've had cases where an odd brand has told us, can we skip it? We've had influencers, some of them celebrities, actually, who have told us that, you know, we do not want to kind of put this up. We've tried our best to keep it, you know, to get them to adhere and put out these. So when influencers kind of tell us, like I mentioned some celebs as well, right, that they will not put this up, it's because they believe that it might reduce their engagement on the particular post. So and if the post gets lower engagement, because it's publicly declared as a, as a branded post, brands might not want to associate with them for the next content piece that they're trying to work out with them. So these have been like slightly minor changes, but I see that a lot of more of these guys, I think if, you know, one of them get a notice, they start taking things a little more seriously. So, you know, when these notices go out to these people that you absolutely must do it, they start taking these things seriously because, you know, people tend to take some of these rules we set in our country for a lot of things a little lightly, right? People think they can get away with stuff. So as an agency, it's our job to ensure that we have the influencer interest and the brand interest in place. We do that, but we've seen a small number of these kind of, you know, cases happen. But that apart, I think it's, it's absolutely not decreased the popularity of influencer marketing or the, you know, the impact it has one bit, right, because it doesn't work because of smaller things like this, it works because it has a larger kind of a, you know, ramification on the kind of content that's delivered on its organic nature or on the diversity of the kind of influencers that we have now. And, you know, the various ways in which we can engage with them, which is getting creative by the day. So, you know, that's what I'd like to add, saying it's a very welcome move and obviously, you know, I mean, even ASCII has been working with influencers, brands and been modifying a lot of these things. If there's need to modify those, that will and should happen over time. That's, that's about it. Shahid, how, how about you? I mean, has it affected your YouTube channel in any way, engagement or in terms of subscribers? Did you see any, did you observe any kind of change after the guidelines came into existence and they were implemented?  So, I think that disclosure now is good because not necessarily just from a perspective of the audience knowing that, but also from a perspective that a lot of time, the influencers should also, you know, know that they are responsible for influencing a lot of people's, you know, decision making in terms of, you know, could it be a buying behavior or using some particular service or a product?  So, that onus on the influencer as well that, you know, you are also responsible for what you claim to be providing for the editor, you know, I think it's important so that, you know, the influencer also takes up the responsibility that I'm not promoting something, you know, which is going to lead into something where my audience, you know, who's, you know, the core reason for me to be an influencer is not getting cheated or getting into some fraudulent equity. So, I think in that way having the guidelines is good for influencer marketing as an industry, getting into, you know, processes and guidelines.  So, as and as as what we had said as well, there are multiple content creators coming on board, you know, every day, every week and, you know, the audiences are also increasing day by day. So, so, so I don't think there's any production in engagement of your ship. And overall, you know, I think the disclosure really helps so that, you know, the audience is also aware and I think that owners and responsibility from the influencer or the agency as well, that they are working with someone, you know, that is, you know, relevant and valid for the audience also to see.  It's, your inputs must have gone into that report. So, what kind of insights you have for us when we talk about the new guidelines and how brands and influencers have reacted to it? So, honestly, I mean the good thing about coming in in the end is that you get to agree with everyone, which I do. I think we are all on the same page that, you know, that it hasn't really, you know, affected much in the sense of getting lower, you know, affecting the popularity of influencer marketing for that matter. Right. Also, the fact that I also agree with what Shire said is that we cannot underestimate the audience. Everybody knew what a paid ad is, especially when it comes to celebs. I think this is especially beneficial.  Right. For example, the tech influencer, I would rely on his reviews for a product. And I should know it's my right to know whether it's paid as a consumer. Right. It's my right to know that it's a paid partnership. That's a definitely welcome step great for the industry. Influencers are also taking it positively. I think the only bit of a challenge that we have currently is adoption. Right. It's going to take a while. We are, we, so as Group M, we've always been very big on brands. Right. So, from the beginning, we've been insisting on paid partnership tags, et cetera, for face resistance, obviously, before the ASCII guidelines especially. But now, I think with ASCI backing us, we have that much more, you know, we have that, we have that much more of a, you know, reason to tell them to adhere to this. So, great move, I think. And we are pushing adoption. It's going to be a little tough for those smaller creators, at least because even with these short-format video platforms, et cetera, that we have right now, even rural influencers, a lot of them are not even aware of what ASCII is or what, you know, they are supposed to do certain things with their video. They are just putting out content out there every day. So, the onus is on us. Onus is on all of us. Actually, that is what I want to discuss in the next part. Yeah. Sure, sure. Glad you brought that up. Yeah. Yeah. So, it is on us and we have to kind of educate people and you know, tell them the importance of it. And, of course, we are not, to be honest with you, I am myself not very clear on what the repercussions of not obeying these guidelines are. So, I think it would help if the ASCII also puts out that note. And if there is also some kind of an outreach program that, you know, where they reach out to creators or to educate them, I think that would help. Because we are trying, but we are not the only ones, several players. So, I actually wanted to understand from Manisha that how have you gone out explaining these guidelines? You know, how have you educated the stakeholders on this? And do you still get questions in queries from influencers or creators regarding the guidelines? Yeah. So, I think when we launched the guidelines and even, in fact, before we launched the guidelines, I think we were very clear that this has to be a collaborative effort. And therefore, you know, it was not something that we went about and, you know, just wrote down in a room and decided. So, we had a lot of collaboration with influencers, with talent management agencies, with advertisers, etc. To really understand not just what the guidelines should be, but how should these, you know, guidelines be put out? Because, you know, like all of you are saying that, you know, we have thousands and thousands of new influencers coming into the fold every day. And many of them are really young people who are not traditional marketeers and advertisers, right? I mean, they've not had, in that sense, a formal induction into marketing and advertising, where you would say, okay, someone is kind of teaching them about rules of advertising, etc., right? I mean, these are people who are going with their own intuition of what is right and wrong. And therefore, there is that whole need. So, it was, in fact, on a suggestion that, you know, of this nature that we created ASCII.Social, which became a platform for people to come into, we did a guide to the guidelines because, you know, the guidelines have to be written in a certain technical way, but, you know, a more explanatory kind of thing. I think we are also looking for, you know, the industry to kind of take this message forward. And we are happy to kind of, you know, be on their platforms. You know, we've had calls where a large corporate has called us and got 200, 300 influencers that they work within a room. And, you know, we've kind of tried to explain the guidelines, done a Q&A with them. So, I think we are, in that sense, you know, quite happy to participate where required. You know, we've had people who of their own accord have kind of looked at these guidelines, put up their YouTube videos on it, you know, and how do you understand these guidelines. So, it would be great to my mind for influencers who believe in this cause to help us propagate it, because that creates a level playing field for everyone who wants to be responsible. You know, you don't want to be responsible if you feel that people who are irresponsible can get away with it. So, I think for people who believe in this idea of responsibility, you know, to join hands with ASCII and we are quite happy to kind of, you know, be at any forum that allows us to reach out to more people, including languages, I think that's, you know, in a sense something we've not gotten to yet. But I also think it's early days and, you know, we, but yes, it's this is not something that, you know, even from our point of view is a one-time exercise that we have done and it's over now. I think it's an ongoing process.  Is there been some training programs, right, or do you just pass the literature to the influencers saying that, you know, these are the new guidelines and you have to follow it. How was it executed? We can start with Vikram this time because his agency is really big. Yeah, so what Manisha was saying is that the guide to the guidelines really helped and we sort of created like a white paper out of it and made simple bullet points for the team, including the larger circulated among the other agency teams as well, you know, as mandate moving forward and yeah, within the campaign management team and the product team, we explained these guidelines. We understood them first and we explained them and ensured that they are always at your base. Now, there is no, you know, sort of giving that a miss either from the celebrity or the and they were pretty simple and straightforward. I mean, were there any points for which you had to go back and seek clarifications? You had any doubts? Not actually. I think they were very simply explained. In fact, I think in a couple of months before the guidelines were officially announced, there was a, you know, an article that I read about these are the possible guidelines that would be launched and those were a little complicated to be understand, but hats off to Manisha and team for simplifying them and making them very simple and just a few hashtags and just a few disclosures upfront. That's that's all good. There is, there was no there was no difficulty executing. Shahir, like you work in South market, you know, you also work with a lot of people who are who have well limited understanding of English, maybe, you know, they have their own language. How did you tackle this?  Yeah, I think, you know, the first objective that we did was that as an organization that we understand the guidelines clearly and and our team and extended team are also aware about it. So I think we did reach out to ASCII to, you know, kind of clarify a few, you know, questions and doubts the team had and once we did that, you know, we kind of did it. What were these doubts?  Or is it just fine to be added, you know, in the description of the video? You know, what is the procedure for Twitter? It was not mentioned in the document. So, you know, so things like this, right?  That's what Vikram as well said that, you know, it was just a couple of hashtags and disclosures. So I think the more time consuming part was, you know, since we have an extended network, you know, whom we work with, not just necessarily from the perspective of working with them as an agency and providing them with, you know, brands, but also that we are also, you know, either producer or co-producers of the content, you know, and, you know, and a lot of these talents, you know, we needed to explain to them as well why this is important and, you know, why we need to implement this, right? And I think something which even Lakshmi also mentioned earlier that they were having that worry, or, you know, wouldn't this, you know, make things look very commercial and people would not think this is an organic content, wouldn't engagement reduce? I think, but those were just initial hiccups. I think now, you know, everyone understands and they've seen others also do it and that, you know, that this is the norm, you know, so it's been fine. I think the challenge we probably faced was that they were a couple of, you know, in few, maybe regional brands were not aware about it and, you know, and who basically was trying to say that, you know, put it as it's not a paid promotion.  So, which is unnecessary, you know, you know, tactics being taken and so, having said that, I think the propagation straightforward and I think it's, you know, it wasn't a very complicated task. Lakshmi, how was your experience?  These are fairly big influencers, some celebs, like I said. And maybe, you know, one place where we could kind of get help on, I'm not sure if, you know, maybe ASCII could get Instagram to also kind of clarify these queries because they believe that their engagement or their organic reach will drop. Actually, we don't know if that will happen or will not happen. There have been instances, maybe it's gotten reduced. See, it looking commercial and things like that, we can still explain to them after a point, right? You know, a declaration like this is required because of XYZ reasons. But when it comes to quantitative things like your reach will drop and your impressions, views will drop and these are important metrics, right?  A large part of the payment that goes to them is for their reach. We don't have clear answers, right? I mean, nobody except in Instagram, Facebook or YouTube has very clear defined answers as to will the reach really drop or not, right? So if you could get some kind of assistance or, you know, knowledge also on whether that's a fact or it's just a myth that's floating around or misconception, which maybe as he could kind of help clear with the platform owners itself, that could really help because that's probably the only hiccup we've ever seen. Brands, obviously, there are brands who wanted to not do it and when we do tell them, you're going to get a note notice and it's legally kind of not okay and all of that. They eventually understand it's a brand, right? They don't want to get into trouble and things like that. So this probably has been the only hiccup if you could call it that and the clarification on this would really be wonderful. And another, you know, otherwise I mean influences kind of really understand why it's required. So long as it does not, you know, make their lives difficult, they're kind of okay with it. One more maybe difficulty was why add both the paid partnership tag as well as a hashtag, right? Because a paid partnership is not compulsory, but when we do add them, maybe can we do away with the hashtag in those cases? So yeah, so I guess these have been the only two points where we've gotten, we wish we could have some assistance. We have reached out to, you know, Manisha's team and she herself has responded a lot of times. In fact, a brand has asked us to help reach out to her so that they can get stuff clarified and we've done that too. So from their end, it's been, you know, we've had a lot of conversations that way through various media and it's really helped us kind of get the guidelines in place and implement it. Manisha, you want to respond right away? Yeah, sure. So I think one is on the reach. I think, you know, I'd be had spoken about this actually, I remember the time when we had launched the guidelines that so we had, you know, as part of our panel, Guy Parker, who is currently the president of the International Council for Advertiser Self-Regulation. And a lot of countries have had these guidelines for a while now. So, you know, so they've had them for 12 months, 18 months, some have even had them for 2-3 years. In fact, the UK had guidelines for YouTubers, I think about 7 years ago. So these guidelines have been, you know, in certain markets for a while and they have noticed actually absolutely no drop in engagement for good content. So I think it is, it goes back to basics where good content will get you the reach and the engagement that, you know, you're seeking. And I think most influencers also recognize that. I mean, I've also started seeing, you know, just anecdotally, much more organic content that they're now in disperse between paid content so that they kind of clean the interest of the audience, you know, not just on commercial messages, but who they are on, you know, also. And I think that just makes the internet a little bit more authentic in terms of its own space. So I think on, you know, I'm not particularly worried on the reach and engagement going down. I think empirical evidence suggests that it should be robust. I think on the other point that you mentioned, Lakshmi on, you know, these tags, etc. See, there are only some platforms that have them and not all platforms have these kind of declarations. So over a period of time, yes, perhaps, you know, we could, you know, work with different platforms, have different tools in place for different platforms. But I think at this point of time, we want to start with a common slate that is irrespective of medium because, you know, we don't want to add a lot of complexity at the beginning and also for consumers to see a uniform way in which the declarations and disclosures are done because, you know, some, you know, channels or some platforms may call it a little less obvious than a paid partnership. So I think at this point of time, we wanted to make sure that the disclosure labels are consistent, irrespective of the medium. But yes, I think it's an evolving field for us as well.  I'm sure, you know, we'll have these conversations and see where to evolve these guidelines to. Viraj, do you also have some questions? I mean, your brands that you work with or influences you work with, they also have some questions to clarify with ASCII. You know, they also have their doubts. Not so much, you've actually never had an experience spent on a certain brand or any influencer has asked us to write to ASCII with regards to clarifying. And I feel like to quite an extent, the document that has been shared by them is pretty self-explanatory. And like till you're following those certain guidelines, it's not too much of an issue. And again, the thing is that like most of the deals that we do are like always paid deals. There's a very, like we don't work as much with like narrow microinfluences as we do with like the slightly bigger influencers. So I feel like a lot of those questions might also pop up and there's like certain part of the question, for example, right? Because that was again a big point of discussion during the initial ASCII discussion that we use hashtag gifted or the hashtag partner or whatnot. But besides that, I think there's been like utmost clarity. We did, I think, receive one or two what notices when one of our creators you know, did not place the hashtag. And I think it was immediately rectified. We immediately edited the post and got it sorted out. So I feel like quite an extent, these are all very easy to understand and easy to implement. So no issues there per se. Sagar, do you want to add? Have you faced any kind of difficulties? I mean, while implementing them or understanding them, do you have any doubts that you want to clarify with ASCII or I can move to my next question? No, I'll quickly just add absolutely no problem. See, there's always a bit of resistance to any kind of change. To start with, there was a bit of resistance, for example, with my business leads or people who are talking to influencers. But the idea is to understand why a certain change is being done as long as you're able to communicate that message and things become easy. That's where it started. A few influencers did have some problems and they did come on a call. But I think someone pointed out it is not the very essence of doing influencer marketing is to make meaningful and powerful content.  But the essence of influencer marketing is never served there. So you have to create meaningful strong content. And if your content is good, irrespective whether it's a paid partnership or not a paid partnership, it will gain the traction that it does. So the guidelines are pretty simple, very straightforward, not much of an asking with respect to the influencers that they have to do. Some education, I mean the entire value chain we have to educate everyone right from the brand to the influencer. So yeah, we are totally good with it. So this is the first set of guidelines that have come for an Indian market. Going forward, I mean, would you want to suggest some additions or subtractions to it? Do you think that certain things should also have been included in these guidelines? So yes, now there are certain especially with influencer marketing and guys like Viraj and Vikram will understand that brands also do a lot of barter kind of stuff where they don't actually pay the influencer but they give something product of a certain value. Now, these are essentially some gray areas. I mean, if I read the guidelines, I think you can use that hashtag. You still have to, you still have to, but a lot of times brands are kind of dealing with they have an in-house marketing team so they're dealing with influencers directly. They may do it, they may not do it. Influencers are also saying, we did say that we have seen a few instances where they were reluctant in putting that thing in their thing that then absolutely there's nothing which is there because I'm not getting paid for that. The big ones anyway do not do barter as such. The ones who are more than maybe 100K, 200K followers, they only do paid collaboration. So there we didn't have a problem. The problem did come with some micro nano influencers who don't maybe 20, 30K range types. And how do we ensure that there's a clear bifurcation in terms of what is a paid, what is a barter? I mean the essence, like I said, is to educate or and make the end consumer powerful and informed about the content that they're seeing. But yes, I think when all of us learn have our experiences, I think these things will also get kind of more structured streamline in terms of what kind of content or what kind of collaboration should be tagged in in which way because a barter cannot be paid. And so that's perhaps slightly a bit of thing. Also with respect to platforms, I think YouTube is not so, because the content is long form, people don't really every time go and read the description. While it does say that you can have either a hashtag put in the description or in the video itself, like in the first five seconds or 10 seconds, if I remember clearly or towards the end, you have to mention that. But I think Insta is much more, clearly there is an option of doing paid partnership. And people, the comment is also clearly seen. Yeah, it's visible. Vis-a-vis YouTube long form content. Which is good for your influencers, right? It is good. But I mean, the idea is to make the end consumer more informed about the content that they're watching. So yes, I think these things will come in. We'll have our learnings. But like I rightly, I have said earlier, I'm totally in with this thing because it gives me further conviction that this entire industry is becoming an advertising currency in itself. And it is not just a part of digital marketing now. It is a different, like you said, sometime back then, and of course is something that we're looking at. So it's a humongous growth that we have seen. Vikram, what more would you want from Manisha? You know, when maybe when she revises her guidelines, she comes with a new set of them or what more value add can these bring to your influencers or to marketing? So honestly, Nazia, I think what I would request Manisha and her team is to be flexible about this. You know, like she said, there was an entire council that went into making these guidelines or forming these guidelines. Similarly, as we move forward, I think it's important to keep testing these for their simplicity, for their, you know, easiness to execute and even sustainability for that matter, plus the fact that, you know, we can keep evolving new or creating new guidelines for other platforms like the short format video platforms or other formats as formats are coming up. So just keep, just keep it flexible and I know they are open to you can define flexible, like what exactly you mean when you say keep it flexible. So what I mean is, see to be honest with you, right now, we haven't even gotten to a stage here yet where the adoption is complete. Right. We are still educating people, so I think it's a little too early to say whether this is working or what is not working or this needs to be changed or that needs to be changed because we still haven't got there. Right. So as we move forward, I think it's it's, it would be great if, you know, we can have an open forum with the ASCII to keep sharing thoughts and sharing the feedback that we get from creators and from clients alike. You know, and yeah, that's about, that's about my Lakshmi, what would you want to suggest to Manisha? I just mentioned last time when I was talking also, yeah, so if sometimes if you can avoid these double paid partnership plus a hashtag kind of rule which makes it a little more I mean, the more processes, the more compliance have become. But I mean, fair enough, like she mentioned, it's always good to have a standard terminology across the platform. So these are initial days as well. So that was probably one which I'm sure they'll also work towards kind of streamlining as, you know, we move on in this whole journey. Maybe, I mean, if there is, I mean, she also mentioned that they did a large session with about 150 odd influences. I mean, just to organize this itself must have been a real task and good host to that corporate for having done that. But if there are more such sessions slash, you know, interactive pieces that ASCII can arrange with those direct stakeholders which in this case influences a lot of times and brands in some cases to educate them about, you know, like I said, bust the myths and give quantitative examples or you know, what are all of, all of those things like maybe even have an Instagram page to kind of explain a lot of these things keep making content probably so that, you know, it becomes mainstream and all of these guys really know what it is and why it's important and understand and just disseminate this as much as possible, which I'm sure they're doing, but yeah, I guess that's it. And like Vikram said, I agree it's a little too soon to already jump to conclusions to say this is working and that's not working. It's an evolving process and from what I've seen, they've been no, I mean, when you see the guidelines, of course it is too early, it's just been three months, but when you see the guidelines, if you, if you feel that, you know, they could have, they could have included this aspect also, you know, to these guidelines or maybe this one particular aspect should not be maybe like, like Sagar said, that free gift thing, he doesn't like, a lot of influences do not want that kind of a hashtag. So if you, if there are some changes that you would want to suggest based on the current guideline, which you have, that was the only one I had, which is the paid partnership plus the hashtag thing. Apart from that, I didn't really have too much because like I said, you know, we will learn more as we progress. So right now, that's pretty much it. I mean, I'm okay with even freebie and honestly, a hashtag kind of gets hidden fairly well. I mean, it's there, but it's not there. So it's not, it's so much in your face as, you know, probably a paid partnership on Instagram is. So honestly, the ASCII guidelines are a little more subtler if you ask me, than even those are. So I'm good, you know, currently, and as we go, I'm sure we learn and so long as there's adaptability within that, which I'm sure there will be, there should, it should be smooth. So we are running out of time. Shaheer, you have one minute to add whatever your questions are and then I have to give the final word to Ganesha. Yeah, I mean, I think definitely we are surely going in the right direction. It's a welcome move, what's been done, you know, and as long as I think if the industry is also moving in the same direction and everyone's adopting it, I think we'll all work to adapt and improve the industry standards. So we'll only look at how to see how this will help the entire ecosystem. Viraj. I honestly don't have anything, any complaints from Anisha and I feel like you all have done a lot of comprehensive research on setting these guidelines. So this is your time to sit back and watch the execution of the same. If you need anything from Aaron, please let us know if you need more workshops to be organized, more adoption to happen, more people to be acquainted, influences to be acquainted, we're happy to organize that for asking. So Manisha, we are left with the exact one minute, but I mean, you can take a little long as long as you want to answer this question. So when you were giving these guidelines, you also said that this was just the first step, you know, we are going to come out with more. So what is that more if you can tell us and if you can just give your comments or your feedback on the concerns that some of them have raised? Yeah, so I think when we said, you know, there'll be more, I don't think we mean more guidelines, certainly not at this stage. I think it is more about talking of the evolution of these guidelines. In that sense, it's just a beginning. And I think as everyone has pointed out, I think it's a learning phase for everyone, including Aski. And, you know, so far we've been encouraged by the feedback, which is why we also made this a very collaborative exercise. You know, there are just so many different kinds of stakeholders in this. And that will be our approach going forward. So I do want all of you to write back to us, you know, with any comments that you have any feedback, any suggestions on new hashtags we need to introduce or any other kind of things that you see, you know, and help us and Virajan, honestly, everyone else, I mean, please invite us for any forum that you're doing with, you know, influencers. We would love for this message to get amplified. There are, you know, in the beginning, I know I did so many of these seminars and webinars.  And I think as people have started to do what they realize, it's not such a big deal, right?  So it's not that burdensome. But there are, I'm sure, a lot of, you know, there is still confusion. There will still be some, you know, interpretation, which are maybe not accurate, you know, that are going around. And we'll be very happy to, you know, come to any forum you invite us to, to speak with influencers directly, anything that you think will help dissemination of these guidelines. I think particularly, as I've been saying, I think we've not done yet, you know, an adequate job of reaching out to language, you know, and regional influencers and how do we do that? How do we amplify our message? So if there are ways in which you can reach out to them, please make us a part of those platforms. And we'd be happy to be there. And I think just going forward, our approach is collaborative. We are a self-regulatory body, which means that we together, everyone in this room and in this group, are together putting a certain sort of guidelines that we are voluntarily subscribing to, saying that this is the responsible thing to do. And I think it is with that spirit of collaboration and self-regulation that we wish to also proceed. So absolutely, this is, you know, something that we are, that we all co-own and, you know, happy to be a part of any kind of education, workshops, seminars, anything that you want to call us for, please call us. Thank you so much. Let me just take another second. I also want to thank everyone actually. And I think, you know, the education that you have done also on behalf of ASCII, you know, everyone sitting here, the workshops, forums, guidelines, documents that you have created for your internal teams, for the influencers, is also absolutely great. I mean, it's fabulous. It's a great amplification of our work. It's a great dissemination of our work. And you know, everyone is doing a great service to self-regulation. You know, I really thank everyone who's done that and who plans to do that. It's very, very important. So thank you for doing that. Thank you, Manisha. I see that the most of the panelists for the next minute have already joined. So we should not take much of their time. Thank you, each one of you, for joining us on Friday afternoon again. And Bhavna is already back. So maybe we'll meet maybe in another six months' time when these guidelines are there for at least nine, eight months. And you guys can give me more definite answers about, you know, what kind of changes we should look at going forward. Thank you, Manisha. Thank you, Vikram. Thank you, Sangir, Lakshmi. All of you, thanks a lot, Sangir. Thank you very much. Thanks for joining us. Thank you.


So I need tails. Only Annie's a tail. That's it. Wow That Durga Gante for me paid off that Durga Gante for him paid off man. I Was I was practicing solo in them when I was doing my that was what I was doing yesterday and I think the day before too. I was I was farming Durga Gante with the Palico stuff And it was like 15 minute like two player things and I was struggling that to kill him really fast And I was killed him when I was that's when I was using the heavy bow gun by the way And I was I killed him like probably like 10 times. So I guess this kind of gave me the mats for all this All right, so I just need a tail That's gonna take care of pastes Yeah, it looks like I'll be fine Well, I don't have the nerf Gante helm yet. Wait a minute. I thought that That's what I was farming the nerf Gante beta set the other day. I Just want to get all the pieces and I thought I got the helm. Oh I need care pastes for that. Okay. Okay. I'm on I'm down the two gyms, too I got to be careful. All right. So when I do sword and shield, I'll I'll use that I'm just spending some of this money While I'm making it. I got two more vouchers.   I mean, I spent the whole day I think I had probably one out of like 20 Probably 20 hunts and pub groups I think I had one successful because people just kept and I wasn't dying. I'm usually the one that's dying, you know But it's like they just kept dying over and over and over and over and over again in the first few minutes It's like they weren't even trying to dodge. I Guess they were just all used to the the other ones where they hit like You know and it takes like one-third of your health Temperate hits you and takes all your health Like I was I was trying because I was I think that was the day I was trying to get That was the day I was trying to get My weekly done because I did do I think three tempered or four tempered hunts And I came this is kind of funny the next day I came on my stream and we did three in a row and got them all Because I was playing with viewers. I was like, man I got that's I think that was the day I decided I was like I got to come up I got to get a solo build man because While I play offline. I really really really don't want to have to go through Where are you going? I was just about to hunt you. Oh My goodness, where's he going chat? I don't even know where he's going All right, it's tracking that one, but I think man, it's about the same Yeah The heck what's that? Oh a bomb. All right, I think I'm running low on hard shell powder All right, let's get ready to go I'm gonna hit him with my hammer and you guys are gonna know we're not gonna do anything actually How is OMG doing oh we got four systems Think we own four systems now. We just got a planetary system or a system with a planetary base. I hit them You guys can take over now I'm gonna go watch Netflix. That's what the YouTube videos say, right? I don't have anybody skill on my bar yet, do I? Frank you're supposed to be fighting Who fight is There you go, I saw that Frank. Good job. This is a lot of bombs and a spot to where I want to do stuff Thank you. All right, hold that thought hold that thought here. Okay. You didn't hold the thought You're supposed to hold the thought chat Be friended a new tail raider. Yes Come with us Gastadon. Yes fight with us brother in Wait, you're supposed to be wait your friend is fighting with me. Why you fight me? Is that how I'm actually good? Are you waiting to be silly? No, it's good for this build as it has a thing called a Range Which is good for Palico builds, it's actually good Normally, I would agree and say yes, this is silly, but it's actually good. I didn't put it on I did well now Maybe along Gastadon.   I'm trying to do a support build even though I'm trying to do damage as a hammer But the phase I'm in right now In case you're just joining me is that oh, that was almost okay. That did that I'm leveling up my Palico gadgets. I just got the me allot of yesterday and also these these Gallagher nights I Just befriended them like yesterday. So they're like level nothing So I got to level them up so I can actually spam their cooldowns So what way what better way to level them up is to do these this mission and get a whole bunch of armor spheres at the same time It doesn't require It doesn't require that much, you know, so it's fairly easy fight for me.  Just just just ride all of them. Which one the poop? I don't even know which one the poop You he hasn't left yet The leaf I think so I'm a pop a cool drink Nope, I didn't pick one up JK My feet are burning They should be keeping themselves Yeah, you're right. You're absolutely right Yeah Come on slide man.  Don't wear off. Don't wear off. Don't wear off.  What are you doing me? I was there you hate to see it yet. Kristik is welcome to stream Are you kidding me? Are you kidding me? Are you kidding me? He's over there farting too. I think it's where we die chat up the hill we go You miss me Down the hill we go All right, what happened to the dyno easy dead. We want to slide. I don't like this zone. I Do like these mushrooms though Mm-hmm piece of candy.    I was you even know no Soon as I put the health booster down he leaves chat. I know what you Know is this hill? That's a big puppy. It kind of is Little fashion bully isms. I'm still in the first one in like 20 minutes. I've gone by about 20 minutes I mean like probably 10 or something No, he's gonna fart. Yeah, hey Thank you for that incline wait art. Did I hear?  They saved it. Do you leave me? That's for not fighting Not not not not not not and it's telling me to go the wrong other way because he's almost dead Mm-hmm shock trap trap trapped it would you please am I going the other way again? I'm going the other way again The flies don't they just don't know what's going on. They just did I should have got that toast to it What am I doing? I need that Where is it? Barely could see it Monster hunter. Why are you hunting the monsters? What did that family do to you? They made that Adams family movie is what they did and for that But he's not the he's not the dead one. Where's the dead one? I Need the dead one chat Wayne Dude, that was if that was the first and only move is that stone? Bomby that was the first and only move I've ever walked out on I'm not even joking I've never walked out of the movie till I saw that Adams family movie. I was like No walked out like an hour into it. I was like, I ain't watching so I gotta do something else Puppet sweet dreams Take you home boy We got you I Mean you the first one. Yeah, the first one. I didn't watch the second one. I Was like, are you mad? Yeah, I really hated that movie everything about it was just awful. I just I tried to jump on his back, but I didn't jump I'm gonna sharpen my weapon because that's a very smart thing to do right now in this juncture See I'll show you I'm sharpening my weapon sir. It's going to happen Sub movie night. Oh no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. This uses bomb pot check Boom He left oh my gosh, come on man Well, he's almost dead to Have I been beaten up on other one and then changing to the other one Cuz now he's almost dead. Oh No, he's not I'm looking at the other icon Yeah, you got a sharp in that hammer chat That's Well that thought don't move. Ah So many investigations in the chin now what we talked about.  Don't bring no paper plates no cups. Don't bring nothing. Just come in behind it And inspect people to invite you to know the parties don't work that way, sir I'm not doing that. I want to slide No, I want to capture her I got caught up in the speech up in the speech chat Okay, so I keep pressing I keep pressing ship there because when I use a range weapon my ship is to do But when I go to melee kind of flips, that's my story and I'm sticking to it Hopefully this little freaking gala this lady Gaga night We'll level up this time. I'm hoping wait. Nope Let's see by accident. I don't know where it ended up level six Mialot of assault All right, at least you got something that time Your palico can now use me all the time assault Whatever that is piggy. We got a bounty complete add another one Nothing Let's do a soft soil Hey Mm-hmm soft soil chat. We're getting there Slowly, but surely we're getting there.  It's a Gaga. You're going to the father. You're gonna saw the father I'm telling him and them right now So we're gonna head down Should I run or travel? I'm practically there. I might as well just keep running. Oh, you already left. All right. We're good Stay there. Yeah, I should do that Yeah, that was kind of smart. Wasn't it just jump right into the gas. Oh good timing. I didn't buff him. Hold on So brace. Are you supposed to rip hold hold down shift or? Like repeatedly hit it. I don't even know Always repeatedly hit it. I think I'm supposed to just hold it down Hold down. Oh that explains why the bar is going nuts Yes, you have a big chin that can cause an error. Oh, no Wait, where'd you come from? Haha, he hit you y'all should fight Hit you again. Wait, did I poop the wrong one again chat? I poop the wrong one again I can't tell from the minimap, which is which oh, I put the right one. I poop the right one I put the right one. This is the right one. Hey poop man.


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Welcome to nursing school explained today's topic is triaging which occurs in the emergency department but sometimes also on the medical floors or the ICU and triaging is a word in French that means to sort and so when we do triage we try to prioritize the patients by their acuity or by their how stable they are so we always want to make sure that we treat the patient who is the most unstable first and in the emergency department patients are triaged by what's called an ESI category which stands for the emergency severity index and the index goes from level one to five where level one is the most acute and then level five is the most stable patient and I've kind of color coded them here from red being warning unstable into the kind of yellow orange category and then they're getting milder into the green level here and when we talk about the emergency severity index we usually assess the patient by their ABCs and vital signs as well as how soon do they need to be seen what are the expected resources that we need to dedicate to care for this patient as well as some examples so emergency severity index number one would be an unstable patient who either has unstable airway breathing or circulation or unstable bio science they need to be seen right away and the expected resources will be many an example here is a cardiac arrest so besides the nurse the physician or the provider nurse practitioner of PA who might be caring for this patient you might have one nurse two nurses you probably will have a respiratory therapist there most likely you'll have some sort of a tech that can do compressions you might also have a lab tech that responds to get the blood drawn and sent to the lab as soon as possible you might have an x-ray technician standing by so there are many resources from really many departments that are needed and the interventions will be continuous and frequent and then reassessments will occur continuously as well so this is a high level of patient that's going to need a lot of resources designated to them and besides cardiac arrest the other example here is an overdose with decreased respiratory rate so maybe that might be an overdose and an opioid that cannot be reversed with just a simple dose of Narcan but they might need to intubate it so we'll need those additional resources the respiratory therapists the lab to rule out other things that might be going on with this patient that's depressing their respiratory rate or somebody in severe respiratory distress this could be maybe an elderly patient who comes from the nursing home who now has a pneumonia and they might be turning septic or with these unstable vital signs or maybe this is a COVID patient who has been at home and now they're in a severe respiratory distress and they're coming in with unstable vital signs need to be seen right away and need continuous and many interventions now emergency severity index two the vital signs and ABCs will be threatened so they will be somewhat stable this might be somebody with the blood pressure in the 80s where they are still maybe meditating but not completely alert or maybe they have a threatened injury to their chest they should be seen within 10 minutes or fairly quickly again they'll have high level of resources that are needed and need continuous interventions as well because they are at risk for turning unstable quickly here and examples of an ESI category two would be a patient with chest pain because when they first arrive we don't know is the chest pain because of ischemia or maybe even an MI or is this a costocondrated kind of a pain or maybe they have a pneumonia or some other underlying lung issue and what this could be a multiple trauma victim who doesn't have an immediate need or stabilization of their ABCs and vital signs but this is somebody who might have had a car accident with blood force trauma to the chest where we have to suspect that there might be some underlying injuries to the lungs or maybe to the rib cage, rib fractures, pneumothorax, hemothorax that could turn unstable here pretty quickly. Now an ESI category three is a patient with stable vital signs but they should be seen within about one hour and they would need medium to high resources in multiple studies so an example would be a patient with abdominal pain because this could be a gastroenteritis, a stomach flu or it could be an acute appendicitis, it could be a small bowel obstruction, it could be a pancreatitis where the patient could get really ill and then actually move up the severity index here fairly quickly so we don't know but multiple studies are needed and those usually include blood work and any kind of other diagnostic studies mostly radiology related or a hip fracture maybe an elderly patient felt they broke their hip but we don't know if there are any other underlying issues maybe they are on any in on some anticoagulants and put them at higher risk for bleeding so there should be a level three where they're still stable but again we have to keep a closer eye on them because maybe during our evaluation we'll find something that will move them up this category index here. ESI category four as a patient begin the stable vital signs and they don't have to be seen right away a delay is okay the resources are low and there might be just simple interventions needed this might be somebody with the closed extremity fracture who might just need a simple x-ray then maybe a split place well it may be a UTI and a patient who's going in an evaluation a review analysis and then go home with a prescription for an antibiotic and ESI category five are the most stable patients so again vital signs will be stable they can be seen with a delay and again low resources are needed and they might need an exam only there might not even be any diagnostics studies that we need such as blood work urine sample x-ray and so forth and then examples here cough and cold or flu like illness we're not expecting them to even maybe need an IV access for fluids or a simple prescription refill so in summary here the emergency severity index is very helpful in being able to sort the patients and allocate the number of resources you have available in the emergency department to the patient and dedicate them to this maybe critical patient and then still make sure that we still can care for all these patients in these other categories and keep in mind there's that old saying in the ER if you if they don't rush you in to be seen that's a good thing in the ER because that means that you're probably a category three four or five and and most likely you're going to be okay but if they rush you in and you are category one or two then you are more significantly ill and that's you know really nobody wants to be there be significantly ill so thank you for watching this video here on nursing school explain please also watch my other video where I go into the primary and secondary surveys more details about the abc def ghi all the way to i and of the alphabet where we really categorize or assess the patient in a very methodical fashion to figure out about more details about their abc's please also subscribe here on youtube and follow me on instagram to stay on top of the latest video releases as well as study tips and and click start questions thanks for watching