Good morning and welcome to this week's edition of Encompass Live. I am your host, Krista Porter here at the Nebraska Library Commission. Encompass Live is the Commission's weekly webinar series where we cover a variety of topics that may be of interest to libraries. We broadcast the show live every Wednesday morning at 10 a.m. Central Time. But if you're unable to join us on Wednesdays, that's fine. We do record the show as we are doing today and it will be posted to our archive page for you to watch later at your convenience. And I will show you at the end of today's show where you can access all of our recordings. Both the live show and the recordings are free and open to anyone to watch. So please do spread the word about our show on Encompass Live with your friends, family, neighbors, colleagues, anyone you think might be interested in any of the topics we have on the show. For anyone who might not be from Nebraska who's watching this show or recording, the Nebraska Library Commission is the state agency for libraries. So we are the state library in Nebraska. So we provide services and resources and training and grants to all types of libraries in the state. So there will be shows on Encompass Live for all types of libraries. Public, academic, K-12, corrections, museums, archives, really anything and everything. Our only criteria is that it's something to do with libraries. We have book reviews, interviews, mini training sessions, demos of services and products, all sorts of things. We have Nebraska Library Commission staff that come on the show sometimes talk about services and things we're doing here for the commission, but we bring in guest speakers from across Nebraska and across the country, even to do presentations. And today, we have a Nebraska presenter and a very Nebraska-centric topic show for today. So if you are not in Nebraska Library watching this either live or recording, do be aware. Everything we're talking about today is Nebraska focused only. Check with your own state for anything different, anything that you might have questions about. But we're going to talk about the Nebraska Open Meetings Act. And Scott Childers, who is the executive director of our Southeast Library system, is going to guide us through that. Good morning, Scott. Hey. And we did this a show like this about a year ago, actually. But things do change. Little tweaks sometimes happen to the laws and whatnot in the state. And it's always good to have a refresher of these things. So we are back again to talk about the Nebraska's Open Meetings Act.  There we go. Yep. There we go. All right. So, first of all, disclaimer, I am not acting as any attendees legal counsel and the information presented they should not be construed as actual legal advice or their promise of such in the future. The goal of today's presentation is to make you aware that such legal requirements exist. If actual legal advice sought for specific reasons, you should contact the city attorney or other such legal professional. So, without a way. Yep, what is it. So what is this open meetings act. So it states state statutes that require public policy be done in a transparent and public manner. The cars are currently located in state statute in these sections there's a link at the very end of the slideshow they'll take you directly to the full text of the act. As Christa mentioned, this is a Nebraska state statute states have their own versions and sometimes they call it something else like Florida's is known as the Sunshine Act, and other such things but this is the Braskens. So who has to follow this law, all almost all governmental councils boards and other groups must comply with open meetings act including governing and advisory library boards. So, village board city council township board school boards, also library boards. I do know there's a couple of libraries are completely under 501 C three that is rare. But so they may not have followed this completely. Also, your friends and foundation groups. Are you not going to be under this, unless there is a quorum's worth of your library board who are also at those meetings. We'll get more to quorum a little bit later on. Okay, I will also make a mention that during this presentation the term public body will be used to cover all variations of council boards and other groups that follow this. It's the text in the law, and it's a lot faster to be going down all the various boards. Just try to say public body. Thank you all for talking about this that you mentioned that the links at the end of the slides. Everyone, they will get this the link to the slide presentation, along with the archive later as well. So, take notes if you want to but don't you don't need to try and scribble down everything here and try and get those links later, you'll have the slides and the links afterwards with the archive. Yeah. Yeah, if you have questions like Christa said from in the questions or chat or whatever section is there open for you so please feel free to ask questions along the way. Okay, so one of the first things about the open meetings act is you have to let people know that a meeting is being held. You'll see in the heading of the slide section 84 1411 is where you find the full text of it. Here's the synopsis. The public is given a reasonable advanced notice about the meeting. Here's the kicker. They don't define reasonable. Right. That's it just reasonable. Usually I'm finding 10 days is a good rule of thumb. However, you would want to look at what your own city village or whatever is doing to announce their board meetings. Tradition, because that has set the expectation for what the city does. I've seen somewhere it's like a full 14 days other it's 10 business days. But you do want to give advance notice. There was a court case a few years ago where, like, 10 o'clock PM before the meeting date that is not reasonable. So it has to be a period of days not hours for this to apply. There also was a recent change in how you put this out in communities of a population or 5000 or less. This notice consists of putting a notice in the newspaper that covers the community, or posting the physical notice in three towns within the community. Right.  Some of our communities don't really have a newspaper that hits frequently enough in the community. I know lots of our small town newspapers have cut down to maybe even once a week. But it's not enough notice. So that's why you have this leeway. If your population larger and 5000 people, then the notice must be placed in a newspaper that covers the community this when you in fact, either last year or the year before so fairly recently. The notifications of where and when the doses were replaced should be included in the meeting minutes. So you have a record of how you advertise the meeting. More on advertising it. The notice of the meeting shall include time and place of the meeting. Agenda of the meeting or a statement of where people can find the up to date agenda. I'm sure about what the agenda has to have a little bit later on this posted agenda can be changed up 24 hours before the start of the meeting. Right. So you can make alterations even after it's posted. There are some communities where the agenda changes very frequently so they are using that statement of where you can find the full agenda. Quite often. Alright, so let's talk about the agenda. So, what, when you have these meetings. A citizen has to be able to, to have a rough idea of what's being talked about so they can decide if they should attend that meeting, or give someone's feedback. What we have here is the agenda item being listed as getting books doesn't give much information to someone outside of the library circle. What that means. But if you had something like grant proposal to build up financial literacy collection. That would be enough. Right. It's fairly specific. You're doing something out of the usual norm as far as your business, day to day business. If you have enough information so it says okay that's a topic I might be interested in, or have feedback on, or whatnot. Another change that kicked in just, just in July of last year. The first class and larger shall place on their websites. The agenda of the meeting, no later than 24 hours before the start of the meeting and this agenda must continue to be available on the website at least six months. Okay, so that is one of the newest changes in open meeting act. I'm going to talk a little bit about emergency meeting but before I get into that I do want to mention you can have special meetings, but they still fall under that know a reasonable notice, and the agenda special meeting should be one topic. And I don't have a slide for that, but you could do a special meet special meeting, but it still falls under those same rules as before. Emergency meeting. So this is different public body can hold an emergency meeting without reasonable public notice. The reason for the meeting has to be stated in the minutes, and the only business allowed in this meeting shall pertain to the emergency matter. It has to be an emergency. It has to be something that is super time sensitive. You don't even have time to call a special meeting on like, hey, the, the library had major catastrophic damage at the library board has to be to address a couple of issues with that to approve some sort of cost to, you know, disaster containment or something, right. But as we've had, yeah. And the complete minutes of this emergency meeting shall be made available to the public no later than the next regular business day. Okay, so you're not fooling around with emergency meetings trying to hide stuff. It is, we have to decide right away. No time to do all the notice, noticing, but we still need to get word out about what we talked about what we decided the next day. So I know sometimes I've heard, usually it's the city level village board or whatever, and they'll have an emergency meeting, but it's really just a special meeting, and they go through the full process, but they call it an emergency meeting because it's out of schedule. Legally, a special meeting and an emergency meeting or two separate things. So just to let you know about that. Before I move into virtual meetings, were there any questions so far. Yeah, no. Nothing has come in yet. But anybody has any questions comments thoughts anything you wanted to know more about anything you're confused or concerned about regarding open meetings act I know we've had. I get questions regularly, pretty regularly about things that are open meetings act related. So I definitely type into the question section. Just what someone didn't want to actually wait. Okay, now of course as soon as I say things, you know, wait. I want a little more clarification about that. Keeping the minutes or the agenda for six months that you had mentioned. That that is on the website. That's only in communities over 5000 have to do that. If you're smaller library and you want to do that that's great. But that is now state law that the agendas have to be there for at least six months after the meeting. I said that is one year old change. So we don't know if there's going to be any refinement or anything on that. Some of the other things have changed have already been refined through state law. That was so new. How this actually works. Right right and it is just for the ones over 5000 which is most of our libraries are not that big actually. It doesn't apply to most of you. Is there any rules about how long they need to keep things like in paper that whole document retention, or are you going to be getting that's a whole different topic, but. My rule of thumb is forever. It doesn't have to be at the library if there's like a city safe place for documentation. So it's good to have these historical things explaining what happened back in 1947 when something went down yet. Yes. Especially, there have been a couple of cases where libraries are dealing with some building things, and they wanted to see what that group of board members decided way back when, because it's causing maybe some issues now or. Or try to find the vendor who provided something. So that way they can see if that vendor still exists and they can get the same thing. Right. Yeah. Oh yeah, I suggest minutes readily available versus kind of an archive format where they're tucked away somewhere. That's up to you. If you're talking about that way anyone can just walk in and get a copy of it. I'd say no longer than seven years, if that. Yeah, I would hold on to your minutes and agenda packet. Just basically plan on doing that forever in some format. Yeah, and that's something that you could do some sort of a scanning project to if you don't have a paper, a place to keep all this paper that you know years ago before electronic start getting things just scanned in and on to a drive somewhere. Yeah. Yeah. So some questions other ones come to know the agenda, putting on the library website. Does it have to be on the library website or on the is the city's website sufficient. That is a great question. So, and that is going to vary by community, because I know some libraries have great access to the city website and others have not, but they have their own. So, I think the key part with that is, or there's two things to consider with this one, how often are you going to change that agenda once it's put up. I mean, can it get put up and stay relatively the same so you don't have to constantly tweak it a bit. So, what is the norm, right? It's like, if the norm is every other department in the city has their stuff on the city website, the library should probably be there as well. And that, you know, like I know I there are some cities where it takes a month to get something up on the city website. Maybe with this new state law things will change if it's a agenda or something it will get fast tracked but so those are things you'll have to consider about in your community. You know, those with over 5000 population. I would not suggest using something like a Facebook or social media does account in the spirit of this, this particular law.  So look at what you have access to what the norm is for the city. And kind of make sure it's consistent is the main thing consistently it's within the same place. So it doesn't say has to be on the library's website just as it says it has to be online, the law has to be online. And I think generally people will start just referring to the city because that's where all the other notices are. Yeah, but we're we're so early at that so really, it's a gas. I've seen many cities where every board of every city department has is listed in the one big thing on the city's website and that's just where they all go. And that's, that's the perfect. Great. All right. Another question about emergency or executive sessions. Okay, someone says it is my understanding that an emergency or executive session is held only for disciplinary acquisitions etc. Is this correct wages for example is not a reason. Okay. Do you mean, I want to clarify just do you mean the question ask her like deciding if some if they're going to give staff a raise or something that is something that should be just been a regular agenda of a board meeting and that would not be an emergency should not be needed for that. Yeah, and we're actually talking about two different things. We're talking about a market of our two different set things. Yes, you're right. And I will talk about closed sessions a little bit later on which I think it would be more of the wages and stuff but yes emergency and close sessions are two different things. And I do know some people kind of throw them together, like I talked about people throw emergency and special together. And according to state law, we have to consider them two different types of things closed session is part of another meeting. And we'll get into more in just a little bit on that, but the emergency. It has to be time sensitive and if wages are time sensitive someone really messed up. Yeah, it should not be a discussion now is literally like we have to have this decided in a matter of days, as opposed to waiting a couple of weeks. Wait until the next meeting. Yeah, like you said, act, you know, tornado came through and now what we need to do or water pipe broke in the library we need to rush and figure out what's what we need to approve funding to bring people into clean etc etc so emergency, you know, the title emergency meeting. Yeah, yeah. So, we'll talk about the closed session. Some kind of session which isn't really a thing but the closed session we'll talk about that a little bit more. And if you have more questions after that. Feel free to ask them and we'll dive into that a little bit more to. Okay. That's all we have for now, go ahead. Okay, so let's talk about virtual meetings. This is also fairly new. Back with the pandemic, Rick, it's put in executive order, allowing some sort of virtual meetings. And then as the pandemic round down, legislature put in these rules that way it can continue because people did find it useful to do virtual meetings instead of everyone gathering in some places. Or, you know, some where they would all meet wasn't able to hold folks over tool meetings would allow more people to participate. However, there are some guidelines. There are like, there's a group of boards and such that could do one type of meeting for library boards. So one of these conditions. One, the purpose of the meeting is to discuss items that are scheduled to be discussed or acted on at a very net another non virtual open meeting. So you can't make decisions as a library board in a virtual meeting. No action is to be taken. You still need to do the publicize notice, but that notice has include a link or dial a number to access for the meeting. But not least, there still has to be a physical location where the public can go for those who don't have internet access. That location is listed in the notice, and at least one member of the public body is in attendance at that location. So you could do virtual meetings, but someone still has to be there at a place. It's a purpose virtual meeting mostly, but I think it's a compromise to make sure. There is a virtual option have it. Yeah. And the full, I didn't put in here, but the full meeting has to be available through that webinar. You can't do like, okay, this group is going to break out do another sidebar or breakout room and some web meeting things call it. The nightcast to be live at the physical location location when public comment is happening. The people should be able to hear the full board, the full public body. So it's doable but there are some caveats. And can you clarify someone's know what is meant by no action is taken. What is an action that they could not do. Yeah, they can't decide anything. They are purely only allowed for the library board class of things. And like I said, it's a very small group of people that can act over virtual meeting right now, like statewide, things that have reps and Chad read and, you know, alliance that there's some up in the South Sioux City are getting together is actually becoming a hardship. Those people could vote online. Local boards can't vote on anything in a virtual meeting. It's only discussion. Okay, so they could have a discussion about something and then at the next meeting they would have to all be physically together somewhere, and then do vote. They have to do full minutes of virtual meetings. So that way you have that information as well. We'll talk more about minutes later to so if the entire board, I'm trying to, you know, I've had people ask about this and I want to make sure we have a clear understanding if the entire board is in the same location, physically. But they are also broadcasting at virtual friend who wants to listen or participate. Can that board then take votes because they are all physically together. Even though the meeting is also being broadcast virtually. Yeah, yeah, if the whole board is together, they can vote because basically the transmission is allowing people to see what's going on, but people will still have the availability if they if they had to choose to to get there in front of the public body in full in and express opinions and hear the deliberations. Okay, so help. So yeah, if everyone is there. Basically, it's your transmitting the meeting. I do not think you even have to let public comment in from those seeing the broadcast. That's what you're doing is broadcasting. Right. That's what's kind of different concepts not holding the whole meeting virtually letting people participate is just we're broadcasting what we're doing. That's another good question. And I have a feeling again this is relatively new as well. I imagine we will see more tweets in this over the next few years. Yeah, I think some people have had a lot of questions lately because everyone knew. Yes, we can do everything virtually now because of the COVID-19 pandemic, but now that there's been changes to it. There's more confusion is kind of obvious everything wrote virtual fine go do it stay safe. But now that we're trying to make it more. It's more restrictive, but still available. People are not sure where the line is for things. Yeah. And again, the reason we were able to do it during pandemic was through executive order from the governor's office. And once the emergency kind of ended. Well, so did that. You know, that executive order so the camera came up with this, the executive order expired. So now they changed and put it some person as permanently in the actual open meetings act. Yeah. All right, cool. All right. All right, I will move on here. We talked about the public's rights. We're talking about broadcasting and all that. So here, the public has the right to attend record broadcast, make notes, make comments at a public meeting. Right. So, anyone in the community could come in and record the full meeting. And then set up a Facebook live or the local radio station or television station, instead of cameras there is a public meeting in all sense of the word for that. The public body can create rules regarding those rights to allow all attendees to participate. For example, this is the one of the big ones setting time limits on public comments so all who want to make comments have the ability to do so. The public meeting doesn't run for 24 hours. So, the public body can say, we're going to have public comment but you're only limited to three minutes, four minutes, five minutes. I've been at some hearings where they look at the size of the room say we have to cut public comment time down to like three minutes because there's so many people on the top. But that is in that public body's rights. The board can say, we've got so many people we have to limit the timeframe. And they can also restrict location of recording devices, so they don't impede with other attendees ability to see, listen or record themselves.  Right. They need to be able to see the chair person's mouth so they can live read and see what's going on. And also things like papers get passed and stuff handouts for the explaining things so you can't set up blockades for that type of thing to. So they are allowed in the room, but they can restrict some of the locations. So that way it doesn't impede other people in that room, or stop business from actually happening because they're dodging microphones, things like that. Let's talk a little bit more about the cans and cannot the public body cannot. So, these are, these things are prohibited from the public body making rules on they cannot require the public to identify themselves to simply attend the meeting. Anyone can walk in that door to the meeting. They cannot require the individual to be on the agenda prior to the meeting to make comment on something on the agenda. So let's say there's something on the agenda. They cannot say all those who want to make a for or against comment have to go to city hall and sign a paper. They cannot require that people should be able to go into that meeting and make comments. Now the public body can say we are doing public comment all at once for all the things on the agenda or they can break it down per agenda item that is their right, but they cannot require pre registration to do so. Okay, what they can do. They can require someone making public comment to disclose name and address, unless there's something severe like a witness protection type of thing, right, to protect the commenter but they can say, if you're going to talk to us, we have to know who you are and what address you're at. So it's a public comment, not an anonymous comment. You do not have the right to be to give anonymous content feedback to your public body in these meetings. And they can have some meetings without time for public comment at all. No listen, it is some, not all some things that it's like we have a full agenda. None of this is being voted on today so we'll do public comment on these agenda items. We'll do it at our next meeting next time. Those type of things. If they do not allow public comment for long stretches of time that they could be fine, could be found in violation of this. This law, but you certainly could say this meeting we just, we're not actually voting on anything that we haven't already discussed, and we'll order the stuff we'll discuss our next meeting as well so we're going to withhold public comment time for this because we had at last meeting on these things and next meeting on these other things. Does that make sense to folks. Looks like nobody's got any questions about it. All right. So, continuing with the public's rights, a current copy of the open meeting act must be posted in the same room as a meeting being held that location is pointing out started the meeting. This is a fairly recent court case clarifying hosting a copy. It means attaching it to the Bolton board hanging it on a chain or fasting it to a wall somehow, a loose copy on the table in the room will not satisfy this loss requirement. Again, this is a fairly recent court case. I know back when I started that was actually still some advice like well you don't have to post it just put some copies that there on the, the table. The reason is that way people can review the public meeting law without getting in the way of business, and without creating a hardship for other folks in the room. So that's why it has to be kind of posted. And then. Krista do we know much about posters for this year or Um, but still be worked on question. Yes. Yeah, some people may have in your libraries in your meeting room somewhere posters, big, you know wall size posters not just little eight by 11 things that were provided by the League of League of Nebraska municipalities in the past. And I have reached out to them to get updated ones. Yes. We are waiting until after this we were waiting until after this legislation legislative legislative session ended which it just did. So I do have to get in touch with them to and they're going to produce new ones with all of this year's changes. I tried to get them last year and we kind of got lost on shuffle but then they made more changes so that was okay. We're going to be purchasing a new poster. And here at the library commission, we are going to be purchasing acquiring however it's going to go copies for every public library in the state. So we will get a poster for each one of you to have, and we will mail them out to you at some point. Don't know when yet I've got to reach out to find out how long it takes to print out new ones. I don't know where they are in that process. But as soon as we do we'll be ordering 300 some odd posters and sending them out to every library so everyone will have a new current version of the poster to post put up in whatever is your meeting room if it's a meeting room in the library sure if it's a meeting room that's at the city offices I mean you can put it wherever works best for you but we are sending it all the public libraries. As soon as soon as I find out where they are in the process, but I had to reach out some already saying can we do this and they said yep, no problem we'll do it after the sessions over, and when we print out new ones so. Excellent. In the meantime, I mean you could print out some copies and stick up to the wall scotch tape. Some of our walls don't react well the scotch tape but you could do something temporarily until those posters come in so. Okay. I'm going to go ahead and go into minutes if you have questions go ahead and start put them in the chat. So the minutes are important part of this because not only are the minute or the meetings transparent people have to be able to go in and see, you know how that record was discussed so minutes shall include the time and place of the meeting members president absent and substance of all matters discussed, right. What that means is, you have to have a good idea of the what the discussion entailed. What the discussion points were made up what discussion points were made up you can't just say, especially from things that the board folks on. Like, you can't just say the library talked about summer reading. And the board voted yes, can't do that need a little bit more meat on that little bit more information. Speaking of votes, any vote will be done by a roll call vote with each members vote recorded in the minutes. This can be waived when you're voting for officers for the group. But yeah, people need to know how the representatives voted. So that is something that a lot of our libraries don't do, but it is in state statute. All documentation received or disclosed will be available for public within 10 working days of the meeting communities under 5000 can get another 10 days if the person in charge of minutes falls ill. Because they realize sometimes that there's one person who is handling all this. But if you're over 5000 as a hard line, 10 days after the meeting. So I'm point out all documentation. What I'm seeing for most of the interpretation of this is if you're passing the board a handout with something copy of that handout also needs to be attached with the minutes. There are some city attorneys to say no, but I find in those cases the minutes are just basically pasting and copying that information into the minutes. So, all of that has to be available to someone researching what happened in that meeting. So, you make a flyer about something, catch it to the minutes in the file. Another new thing, cities of the first class and larger child place on their websites the minutes of the meeting, no later than 10 working days after the meeting, and those also have to remain on the website for at least six months. Okay, so if you're one of the larger communities only already putting your agenda on the website, you are now putting the minutes on the website per state law. So the guidelines that you're using for the agenda as far as which website put it on. Yeah, that one just kicked in. Was it just July last year to it. That was also very good. Yeah, that was the last year thing as well. Yeah. For you to close sessions where their questions about minutes coming in. Check my time while we're doing that. I'm going to take a few minutes questions. Type into the question section of your go to webinar in case I don't see anything right now but if you think of anything, go ahead and type. It's got plenty of time in the session today so we will we can jump back to anything if you think of it later, definitely. Absolutely. All right, so let's talk about closed sessions we touched on it earlier. I've seen some refer to them as executive sessions. I don't know what's executive about them, because it's still the same people. Stay lock also closed sessions. These. These are part of the open meeting. Right, they aren't as they can be special but there still has to be a public meeting surrounding it. These meetings can have these closed parts of a meeting when it's talking about things like strategy sessions with collective bargaining real estate purchases litigation, that's either pending or imminent. Right, because that type of stuff. If that is done in an open forum you're actually making it harder for the city to get things done as far as good prices on real estate. If it's collective bargaining that that could could hurt either side of the argument litigation you don't want to have a lot of those strategy sessions in public because then you might not be able to do use some of the information in the actual litigation itself. All those seem fairly, fairly reasonable discussion regarding deployment of certain security personnel or devices. If you're having security, you don't want full information out, because whatever you're trying to protect against will know where to avoid and find other routes into a building or, or what's not investigative proceedings regarding allegations of criminal misconduct. This is one of those where you are actually helping protect the individual who's being investigated, because if it's public meeting people will have these things away. And remember people are innocent until proven guilty. So, some of the investigative proceedings are best done behind closed doors until you have the facts known. And then evaluation of the job performance of a person when necessary to prevent needless injury to the reputation of that person, and if that person does not request a public meeting. Okay, talking about employee, it could be potentially embarrassing to them, depending on what the case is so those can be in closed session. The employee can also say I want this to be part of the open meeting. It's in there in state law. I've had someone tell me that they were told it's only for union employees or unionized employees and that's not the case is in state law that. Oh, wow. And get the 84 1410 so that's chapter 84 section 1410 if you want to look at for yourself. I'll take my word for this or any of it. You can look it up for yourself, but yes. So, sometimes it is in the employees best interest to make it a public meeting, especially if they feel like the people evaluating them in potential closed session will be biased. Right, so that employee can have that protection. It's not here but I will mention a closed session cannot be held to protect the reputation of the board members holding that meeting. Right. I've seen some boards want to do that, but that is prohibited. You can protect other people in the community, but the board itself, their reputation cannot be protected through a closed session. That's something to keep in mind. I've heard of things happening. I wasn't there so I can't report any violations because I wasn't there. But that's something good for you to know. It would not be surprised if there's possibly a library board member, someone eventually who wants to have a close mission close I should protect their reputation. That cannot happen. So the board people do not get that protection of reputation protection by closed session. So that kind of the concept of they're a public figure or in public office sort of body. Right, all of their decisions should be able to be scrutinized eventually. And I have a little bit more about some types of public bodies have other eligible reasons but those don't apply to, to library boards or city councils and stuff like that. So, a little bit more a closed session. The process goes, you are in an open meeting. Right. The board states the reason for a closed session, and then there is a public vote to go into that closed session, while in that public part of the meeting. They cannot start a meeting and have it be completely closed at all. That's so that's one thing. There is a public meeting. They give the reason why they want to go to closed session and then there is a public vote to go into that. It is possible that the board members decide to vote against going into closed session. It's completely possible. They go into that closed session either they excuse all the people in the meeting to say please go out the hall, or the board members themselves go to an isolated room. They have their discussion, they come back, start the open meeting up again, and then they can vote. They cannot vote in that closed session. The vote has to be public. That roll call vote that we talked about has to happen in public. Right. So, that there is some process here so they cannot hold a completely secret meeting at all. Doesn't allow anyone in. There has to be a time where people are notified. If they're not in the room, they'd say what are going in closed session they vote to go into that closed session. And then when they come out they vote on whatever it is they need to vote on. This is open meeting act even those private discussions if there is a vote to be taken it has to happen in public questions on that. I think I scared everyone away. Good question to come up. Oh, okay. Good question. Do all board members have to vote to approve a closed session. The vote for closed session follows the core rules for that that board. It does not have to be unanimous. So, if a quorum says we're going into closed session. It's going to close session. Okay. We'll move on, but please feel free to throw questions in and we can always come back. I do want to touch on something social events. I know in many of our small communities, you can't help but run into other board members at things. Right. School activities, church activities, social groups like lions rotary. All of those. There is a statement in open meeting act that allows more than a quorum of members to get together at functions. I'm going to quote it here. The citation is at the end the act does not apply to chance meetings or to attendance at or travel to conventions or workshops of members of a public body, which there is no meaning of the body, then intentionally convene. If there is no votes or other action taken regarding any matter over which the public body has supervision control jurisdiction or advisory power. Okay. So, all the board members go to a training meeting. No problem. That doesn't have to be open meeting act as long as they're not voting on anything that that board has control over. Another example, let's say the library is having a fundraiser or book sale, all the members of the board can be there they just have to be really careful not to talk about business or vote trying to decide stuff at that session. You've got people who can't help but talk about that while they're around. You may want to suggest okay you two are over that quarter you two are over that part of the room. And that's kind of an extreme thing but as long as it's, it's not a meeting they're not doing meeting type things. It's okay. They're at the same bleacher at the, you know, at the school graduation, if they wanted to. So right. But yeah, that was another concern because I know it's like, there are sometimes where it's like the extended family gets together and you've got a quorum of board members. It's okay, as long as you're not talking to our voting on or deciding things that you understand that these social things happen that's not preventing you from being social. So just pay attention to what you discuss when you are. Yeah. All right. So let's talk about consequences for violating this act. Okay. First of all, if you think there's a violation who do you contact the county attorney and the state attorney general are the people who enforce this. If you think something happened, you go to the county attorney first and then the attorney general. Any meaning has held to have been found to a violated this act could see any adult decisions made in that meeting void it. So that means if there was a decision in a meeting that violated this act. You could do another lawsuit to void those specific things. It makes it vulnerable to change. Also for the individuals involved. There's a quote here I won't read it out loud but to be guilty of a class four misdemeanor which is a $500 fine. For multiple offenses there's a class three misdemeanor for a second, which is a $500 fine or three months in jail. And then severe violations of open meeting act like repetitively violating acts over and over with no do with no regard to how it's supposed to be done. There could be more severe penalties. Then we're going into like fraud level of discussions. If it's continuously a repetitive violations of acts. So, so yeah, there is an individual penalty for violating these laws. I also want to mention that anyone who was at that meeting can report these it doesn't have to be somewhat of similar stature as the board members so any attendee of a board that board meeting or a public body being that violates these could report it to the county attorney. In fact, there are sections where if you don't then you might be held liable as well, especially board members. There is a statute of limitations on reporting it like a year. If you wait a year that means nothing will probably happen. So, things to keep in mind. So that's this is not a toothless piece of legislation, there could be harm to the community and to the individuals if you violate this. So in order to bring this to the attorney general or the county attorney, someone would have to. It's a lawsuit that would have to happen. Or can you just call them and say hey I think something they did something wrong. Can someone check on it. I mean, how do they actually It depends if you're looking for If you yourself was harmed because of that, then there might be a lawsuit involved, but you could just report it to county attorney. If you think you witnessed that they were doing something that it was against the Open Meetings Act. Right. But if you yourself are looking to get some sort of, you know, the word escapes me even though I was looking at earlier. And because of a decision held in a meeting that was not held under Open Meeting Act, you could file your own lawsuit and your attorney fees could also be returned back to you if found that yeah you were harmed and they have to pay up. They have to change their decision or whatnot. But yeah, if it was just like, they're not doing the right thing. I wasn't personally harmed but they need to follow the law that I know that this is what the Open Meetings Act says and they're not doing it. Yeah. They may have other library laws is that the same situation for I know we did a separate section and I should have mentioned that too. We have kind of a two sessions we've done here and have a slide that kind of go together. So last month on June 21 we did a session on Nebraska library laws. And we mentioned briefly open meetings that act during that session but then we needed really full meeting just on that. So would that be the same situation if we you think that any library is breaking library or city is not following library laws. That part of state statute is unclear about the path that could be taken. I would probably start with county attorney. We can't do anything unless there is an actual lawsuit of some form. But yeah, like Open Meeting Act, it's pretty clear what the pathways are. If something happens. Chapter 51. It's not really spelled out there. So that would it's a little bit more of a gray area who you would start with. I might start with the county attorney. I know in some communities the county attorney is the same as the city attorney. So then you would probably have to go up to state level. Because if the county attorney is also the city attorney, they will be defending the city attorney, it's part of their job. So you can't have them pursue something that way. And for chapter 51. So, yeah, that one's a little less clear for that. Open Meeting Act, it's fairly clear your pathways to report it. Okay, thank you. So, I'm going to have this slide links for reference. So, text of Open Meeting Act. What that link goes, it goes to the website with the first part of it. If you want the full text that secondly, like gives you all of it in one big go so you can copy paste print out what have you. The attorney general's notes on Open Meeting Act is also very useful to find information on how things would be interpreted by, by his office. I do also want to mention, there were four bills in this last unit camera on Open Meeting Act, none of them passed, but Open Meeting Act does change we went at least three straight years with some tweak that would affect library boards. Advertising, where you hold that meeting. Involved with the newspapers, one year saw something that was passed the previous year got tweaked. So, it is good to kind of keep track of this and that's kind of what Chris and I are doing this review this year, we might have something year after year. And one of those bills that was introduced it did not pass would have changed meetings because then you had to allow public comment at every meeting and it may not have been as restricted time restricted as before. That's something that we have to keep in mind is we're holding a board meeting we could be here for three hours. Hopefully it never happens but there were some other smaller things that would affect library boards but so that's, it would be good to after the session ends maybe do a little bit of saying what passed what does it when does it take effect. I type of thing. Any other questions. Yeah, and those links, as I said they're in the slides that you're going to receive you'll you'll have access to after the session, and I've also linked them from the event page for this show to so you have quick access there as well. But you can keep your slide up there for now Scott, they may have any we have a few minutes left that we can answer any questions you have. So please do type your questions in if you have anything you want to ask about now that you thought of if you think it's something later go ahead and reach out to Scott at the Southeast Library Commission system, Southeast Library system, and, or myself and we can answer your questions. So, I think we answer the question about the emergency executive session and what it's what they are for and not for. We have a new question here. Okay, so kind of a mixture of things they want to know if these particular things are, they want to be confirmed with these particular things are a violation violation of the Open Meetings Act proxy votes, voting without a quorum, and votes during a closed meeting are all three of those in violation of the Open Meetings Act. Proxy votes aren't addressed at all in the Open Meeting Act so I would assume that those are not allowed. There's no provision for that happening. The last two definitely are you need the quorum to be able to conduct business so if you have a five person board you need at least three. You cannot conduct business with just two. And then the votes in closed session again that is in violation. You cannot do that. You can have your discussion in closed meeting but then you come out and just do the vote. Right. So both of those would be in violation. I also want to mention here. I don't think we got into quorum. There are some times where there needs to be some board interaction but not a full meeting. You could do that you could have two members of your library board as kind of a committee. They can't assign anything, but they can do research they could talk with an architect they could talk with the librarian. That is fine because you can't with two people out of a five person board right that's not quorum. They can take that information and bring it to the full board later. Right. So that is okay. There's some libraries where if they're hiring someone they have two members of library board as well as the librarian kind of doing all of the interviews and such, and then just how we there's multiple people there, they get multiple points of view on a candidate, but they don't have a full meeting right then and there there's whatever process they're doing later. So that is also something useful for you. You can have board reputation on things without meeting the full board, as long as you're not deciding anything right there and then vote goes in front of the full board. So. Right. All right. Any other see anything else come in more answering that question any other last minute desperate questions you want to ask about Open Minis Act. Go ahead and get it typed into your question section. I'll keep an eye on that, but I'm going to pull presenter control back to my screen just to do work on a little wrap up here. While we're waiting to see if there are any other questions. All right, there we go. We just got some thank yous thank you Scott for all this info. Good resources. We hope so. As I said this is a question we get asked a lot about open meetings and the library laws the previous session that we did. And that's why we did these these sessions and we have a legislature do things every year. And this may become a regular thing if something changes and either open meetings act or in state library laws or the effects libraries we will do updates on after each session is ended so we'll see if we'll do another one next year and then how it goes. And some of these changes are good and we like them and some of them are like, All right. Like the, I'm glad the one you mentioned about every meeting you have to allow public comment that's just not feasible. Yeah, and I'm glad just the logic isn't there. So. All right, so for today's show. As I said this is the event page for today show, and you might have seen it wasn't there before but I added it while we were talking a link to the text of the Open Meetings Act, and to the attorney general's notes. So I had these two here so this is the the actual from the state legislature website. And then from the attorney general's page I use this myself a lot to just confirm what, because there's more in here not just the law which sometimes read the law is very dry and like well what does that mean. He talks about well this is how it works in practice and this is what I would say if someone came to me about this issue. Oh, another question just popped up. I'll grab that while I'm seeing it here. Oh, another question. How long do we have to retain audio recordings of the public meeting. So you mean when we do a virtual session if there was a meeting is there how what are the rules, if any on retaining the audio recording or the virtual recording like this. There is nothing in state statute regarding audio recordings or video recordings of meetings retention wise. So that is up to how you want to archive it and research it. The only requirements would be for the written material and that type of thing so. Minutes are the official record of what happened at the meeting. Yeah, yeah so whatever recordings that will be basically up to you and your city or township or county or whatever level. The meeting is held at, as far as how you retain it and that type of thing. I could imagine that might be something in a few years we'll see them look at address that. Yeah, also doesn't. Individuals records. That is also not part of state statute so people in the room. They do not have to give up their recording they do not have to hand in their notes. That brought up another question I heard from another group is like, could they make me hand in my notes is like no this isn't school. Unless you are the secretary that you have a whole other duty. But yeah, individual broadcasts or recordings are not property of the city their property of the person who took those recordings or notes or whatever. So notes. So then here it notes though of people who attended the meeting. What about the notes of the actual board members if they take their own notes. Those are not covered with this it is assumed that the minutes would be the official record. And yet there was a group that the people taking the board members had to hand in their notes for some reason I think that's kind of odd. But yeah, there's nothing in state law about keeping it an individual person's doubts is the minutes. So that document that's created that is the thing that record what happened. Yeah. The only time those notes might get called into is if there is some lawsuit or something. But that is that individual would get some peanut not the city in my right. What I've understood I could be wrong that's one of those. I'm not the lawyer. Talk to an actual lawyer. If that's those things start happening that's when you call a lawyer not me or Scott. Yeah, yeah if it's gone that far. Absolutely. All right, thank you. Okay, so, as I said this is the session page for the show, it's going to be on our archive page so I'm going to pop back to the income is life main page. If you use your search engine of choice and type in and compass live the name of our show, you will come up with our main page and our archive page in your search results. There are upcoming shows, but our archive shows are right here afterwards, most recent ones at the top of the page. Today's will be posted here by the end of the day tomorrow. I will have a link to the recording on our YouTube channel and a link to Scott slides. Everyone who attended today's show and registered for today show will get an email from me, letting you know when the recording is ready. We also post them to our social various social media we have a Facebook page. Oh, actually that's over here. Yeah, that we link to if you like to use Facebook give us a like over there we post about here's reminder to log in today's show. Meet our presenters, and then when recordings are available we post on here. We use the hashtag and come live as an abbreviated hashtag of our show name on here and on Twitter and on Instagram. We also post on our social media, so you can keep an eye on things we're doing over there as well. You can search these archives you want to on it for any topic you might want to see if we did on the show on a topic. As I mentioned we did open the exact last year, but I would watch this year show because it's updated. But this is our full show archives going back to when encompass live first premiered which was in January 2009. So we're going on 15 years of the show. But we do have them all here. And you know this is something that we will do where librarians would keep things for historical purposes and as long as we have someplace to host our videos are recordings which right now is our YouTube channel. We will have them up here. So just pay attention to the original broadcast date of anything they're all dated so you can find it when the show first happened and do be aware things will change some shows will stand the test of time still be great useful information but some things are still old outdated resources may have changed drastically or no longer exist anymore. links may be broken. People might not work at the same library they worked out when they brought they presented for us 10 years ago so just pay attention to that day. If you do watch any of our older shows. All right, I don't see any other questions coming in so I think we'll wrap this up. Thank you everybody for being here. Thank you so much Scott for doing this update again for us. Maybe we'll see you again next year. Why that. Yeah. So here's our upcoming shows I'm as you can see I'm getting August days filled in about next week it is the last Wednesday of the month so that means it is pretty sweet tech day. Last Wednesday month is always when Amanda sweet our technology innovation librarian comes on the show and does a show about something tech related. So what we're doing next week is we have a guest presenter, our newest staff member here at the commission, I think, Andrew Sherman is our new and our computer services team and he's going to talk about filtering for specific compliance and just security in general cybersecurity issues that you will want to be paying attention to for computers that you have in your library. So if you are have issues concerns about that or questions or wonder how do I filter what's it all about. Sure. We'll be talking to us about that next week. So please do sign up for that show and any of our other upcoming ones. Keep it on our schedule. I'm in conversations with people will get some more sessions added into there for August and September. Thank you everybody, and hopefully we'll see you all in a future episode of the time.


Some evening is still untouched. Magnificent, serene. And on its eastern slope sit a boy and a girl, watching the twilight gather across the waters of the Great River. Glad you came. Of course, darling. It's beautiful. Beautiful. It's tremendous. Look, Judy, it's a quarter of a mile straight down to the Tappan Zee. You can see 15 miles of river north and south. I grew up looking at it. And you want to go on looking at it for the rest of your life? That's right. Old Hendrick Hudson came up that river just about 300 years ago and lost a ship right below us. They say the crew climbed up on this tour to keep a lookout for the fleet that never came back. And they say on dark nights before storm you can see them. Have you seen them, Ben? No, maybe. Can't be sure. Pretty wild around here when it's stormed.  What'd you bring me? Sandwiches and it's dinner, not supper. Dinner. That's what I said. Fetch out the dinner. We won't quarrel the night where we've been. We always quarrel. No, Judy, no fights. Too nice a night. You know what I'm saying? Look. Down there, you see where I'm pointing? Where? Oh, it's a man. An old man. Who is he? That's Indian John. Last of his tribe. He found his burying spot last week. Burying spot? Yeah, that place I'll dig is great. You're joking. No, no, we got an understanding. When he feels it coming over him that it's his death day, he'll let me know. And then I'll dig him in so that crows and the foxes can't get at him. You see, he's all alone in the world. But you couldn't, Van, without a permit, without a burial permit. See, what's this? Beef. I like beef. Judy, this getting old and dying and crawling into the ground was invented way back before medical examiners and taxes and all of that. What does he care for permits? What do I care? What do you care for anything? No, Judy, not tonight. I mean it, Van. Every time I come up here, I hope I'll find your chain grown up. But you don't change. You never do. You never will. What do you want?  The human race? Look, South, down the river. New York City's down there. What a fine old view I'll have when the A-bomb start popping. You can have the human race, sweetheart. I'll stay up here. And what about me? I hope that you'll stay with me. What'll we use for money? You don't need the stuff. Have worked that out. All you need is a place to sleep and something to eat. I've never seen the time I couldn't find a meal on this mountain. Rainbow trout, jugged hair, something in the season right around the Zodiac. It's hopeless, isn't it? Let's talk about something else. Look here, big nose. I know it, bank robbed at $25,000. It says I got away, too. Now, there's something, honey. You know, I won't take an ordinary job in a factory or an office, but how about me as a bank robber?  It is hopeless. I knew it before I came tonight. Uh-oh. Looks like we got company. Bad company. Hey, Max. Yeah? Any houses around here? Houses? Up here? A fellow named Van Dorn is supposed to have a cabin along this ridge somewhere. Van Dorn. Van Dorn. Your full name is Van Van Dorn. Kind of a hermit. We want to do a little business with it. I'm sorry, gentlemen. I wish I could help you out. What sort of business? If it's not too secret? A little deal involving this mountain. We want to buy it. Send them a flock of letters. No answer. You offered money? $2,000. This is Mr. Van Dorn. That's all. Yeah, and no deal. I wish you'd keep me a big mouth shut. Well, Mr. Van Dorn, my name is Biggs, R.J. Biggs. This is my partner, Judge Skimmerhorn. Pleased to make the acquaintance. I'll bet you are.  Oh, that's a great sense of humor, Mr. Van Dorn. Judge Skimmerhorn of the Skimmerhorn Skimmerhorns. He's a leg man for his father, a guest man for Biggs here, and a vice president of our local industry that trap rocked up. Mr. Van Dorn, let's get down to cases, huh? We'd like to buy this property. You like the view, I suppose. It certainly is a view. You wouldn't want to spoil it, of course. You wouldn't want to move in with a million dollars with a machinery and cut that guts out of a mountain the way it did with Littlethor. We're just... We're in business. Not with me. You say $2,000? Yes, but I'll tell you what we'll do. I'll make it $3,000, and I'll give you the check right now. No deal. And incidentally, Skimmerhorn's senior offered my father $10,000, and he wouldn't sell it. 10! Van, you're right. Hold on. I'm not holding out, Judy. Now you keep out of it. Now, Mr. Van Dorn, we'd like to be generous. Generous, huh? To put it straight, we'll give you $4,000. Oh, now it's $4,000. Go on. Get moving. Otherwise, it is quite possible you'll be held incompetent by the court and a guardian appointed. What? Yes, by George, and anybody that won't take money when it's offered to him is incompetent. You'll take it now or not at all, Mr. Van Dorn. I don't go mountain climbing every day with a blank check in my pocket. You'd better get started back down that trail before it gets real dark.  You regret this. In fact, the sooner you get started, the better. There's something funny about this mountain when it doesn't like someone. Every storm on the Tappin' Zee climbs up here and wraps itself around Hightour and blazes away at what you've got. Steam shovels, bulldozers, anything new fangled.  I've got a premonition that something might happen to you. You know something? He really is crazy. Yes, let him talk. He ain't going to sound great. What's that? Oh, nothing much. A section of flip coming down across the trail I've been expecting it for the last two years. You'd better go down this way. I've been ducking those vultures for years. What'll you do now? Fight them. And what about us? What about us? Goodbye, Van. Are you going? Yes. I'll walk you down. No. I'm a big girl, Van. You sit here and guard your rock. Your precious rock. You coming tomorrow? No. No more, Van. I'm through. You had a choice when you chose Hightour. You're in love with your mountain. We'll keep your mountain. Just like that. Just like that. Good night. Judith. Good night, Van. Goodbye. It has become quite dark now on Van Dorn's stone-strewn mountain. The owner sits motionless, peering intently at the slope above. He's not alone. Above his head, this silent procession moves toward the summit. Six men in the moon. The men wear knickerbockers, large black hats, and silver buckles on their shoes. Van Dorn watches them pass. Oh, oh. Looks like we're in the first stone. The young woman talks to a stocky middle-aged officer. The wit. Your reason? Tell Asher to post a watch. Not I. You tell him. He's your husband. No. He'll call me discontent. A carping wife. Discontent. He's right. When the half-moon returns, and carries us back to the side of day, and home, and friend, then will I be happy once more. Yeah. Pretty soon now, Lisa. Pretty soon the ship will come. At first, the days were like years. How the years are, as days. And I'm afraid for us. Why? I don't know. I tremble to think, darling. I, it's these strange new men. You've seen them too. Sorcerers. That's what they are. These new world devils. And they've laid a spell here. We must break it ere we can go home. I see this very clearly. Break the... Fall in love with one of them. Oh, that will undo them. Yeah. And I'll choose me out one of their female mermaid witches, with my heart on her. Become a man again. I gave my love long ago. It's no help. The captain, he is very true. Calm Lisa, stout heart will fight these devils, and win the day. And then I can go home. Pick one, fall in love, break the spell, and then we'll all go home. Open somebody up here with a subpoena, like I told you.  With both trails out, how are we going to get down off this mountain? What's that over there? Where? On the edge of that cap. On Van Dorn's property. I had it moved in this afternoon. Other side of the gorge is where our property starts. Come ahead. He could sue us. How did I know the deal was going to fall through? Anyhow, we can go fit in it when the rain starts. Swallow. And maybe get electrocuted. Two new figures scramble up the slopes. They are young, in jeans and leather jackets. One carries a small satchel. Rob, this is the stuff I'll let you talk me into. Look, pal, we got 25,000 bucks in this satchel, and half of it belongs to you. So quick it is, he thinks he's following us.  So what do we do now? Down the other side and pick up the car. Holy smokes look there. Judge Schimelhorn, does he know you sure he knows me? 400 years. See, hiker, see, on a picnic. Play it cool, see. What about the satchel? The satchel, the satchel. Behind this rock. Good evening, Judge Stur. Well, you're a long way from home, buddy. Yes, sir, out for a hike. My feet are killing me. I think I'll just sit down on this nice flat rock. Hey, buddy, this is a funny time to be taking a hike. It's sort of a dare, a bet. Yes, sir. Well, boys will be boys. I don't suppose you brought some food along? Frankly, I'm famished. No, no food. That's odd, campers without food. Well, we ate before we left, sir. Night's going. Yeah, what then? I say we better be going. Gotta get to the soft, you know, gotta keep climbing. Huh? Come on, dope. What about the, you know what? Later. Then I can't hear. Good night, boys. Hope you win your bet. Yes, sir, Judge. Yes, sir. That's all. Let's go. Go where? I'm sitting right here, pal. No more stumbling around in the dark for me. A man could fall off a cliff. Get himself hurt. I guess you're right. Well, what's that? Oh, a satchel. Yeah? Somebody's moldy luggage. People always throwing junk around. I wish I had something to eat. If we had a phone, we could order a helicopter. I can't eat, huh? Going to sleep. Maybe you've never tried adjusting yourself to igneous limestone. I'm about to try it now. You have my sympathy. Thanks. You know, we could have done all this the honest way. Dear boy. Strangely fashioned bag which they flung from them. What can it hold? Secured most curiously. He tried to bite me. He heard a bit. He already damned and bewitched what more terrible thing can happen. Nothing. What is this strange green parchment stuff? Curious. I'll put a portrait of their devil king, huh? Yeah. None of it. It's a great jib boom. Copper pieces. A fortune of them. Enough to purchase a ship if these four endeavors would protect... Do you believe in apparitions? It's a figure of fun standing by our feet. Right out of a masquerade ball. He's spoken man and I... a boat. I'm asleep. I'm sound asleep dreaming. You've come to the wrong shop, sailor. You have no boat? No boat. Go away. Will you please? Will you please? It wasn't possible. Did you fake that thing? Fake it. I saw it. Oh, no. Nobody saw what I saw. I didn't either. I've got a family to support. They're not going to put me away anywhere. Whatever it is, it left a calling card. Looks like he ate his lunch here. Supposing a thing like that eats lunch. These envelopes. There's something in them. It'll help yourself. I want none of it. Scimmerhorn. This is... Oh, let me sleep. It's the green stuff, Scimmerhorn.  Money pie? Pies and tans. Well, bless the poor little Dutchman's heart. And after all we said about him, too. You think he left it? He wasn't there before. Oh, look at it all. Before I always had to work for it. Or steal it. Never till tonight have I been wakin' by a little man in a big hat, fetching it to me in packages. Oh, yes. Oh, daddy, look at this envelope. A newet bank and trust company. Shorty's a bank robber? Looks that way. Guess we ought to return this, huh? That'd be the proper thing to do. These are probably marked. No. I read in the paper all small bills and unmarked no record of the serial numbers. You don't say so. I've known the president of that bank for years. He's a dishonest rat. Big T. 50-50? 50-50. Come on, come on, let's give you that. Hey, come on, you know what? No taxes, daddy. No taxes. Quick, quick, quick. Duck it. There comes that crazy van door. I thought you two would be a homing bet by now. Sorry, Mr. van door. With the trails out we thought we'd better spend the night. It goes down in the morning. Well, they won't like it, but be my guest. Thanks. By the way, that's steamship. A mistake, we'll move it tomorrow. By noon or it goes over the cliff. No, see. Right here. You are, Mr. van door, first thing in the morning. In fact, judge, let's mosey over there right now. Well, we'll be nearer the light. Right you are, Mr. Diggs. Good night, Mr. van door. Good night. Mr. van door watches them go. At his feet is a crumpled ball of paper. He picks it up, smooths it. It's an envelope which he reads without expression in pocket. And now before him, approaching through the rocks, he sees a girl, young, beautiful. Do you hear my voice? Yes. And you can see me? Yes. Yes, I can see you. I've seen you many times. I know you. You are not like the other wizard men with their machines. You are kind. How do you know? When I was most lonely in the spring, I made a garden of your strange new world's wildflowers. I saw you come there and I hid. And when I looked again, a new flower had been planted with the other. Wild orchid. It was your garden? Yes. You know the names of all the flowers? Yes, I do. Teach me the names. What is the tall three-pedaled one that's almost black? The red's so dark. That's Trillium. Give me your hand. And speaking of flowers, tell me your name. It's Lisa. You're cold, Lisa.  Why so sad? I'm puzzled here and lost. It's so different for you. Keep my hand and tell me. In these new times are all men's shadows? All men lost? Sometimes I stand here at night and look out over the river when a fog covers the lights. Then if it's dark enough then I can't see my hands and I'm alone. Well, I don't know who I am. Maybe I'm cloud and maybe dust. I might be as old as time. I'd like to think I knew. A man gets that way standing, staring at darkness. But right now, at this moment I don't seem to care. At this moment, look you, when the wizards come to tear the mountain down, I'll have no place. I'll be gone then. No, they won't get this mountain. It's mine and it'll stay mine if I have to shoot them as they come. The mountain's mine. And you ought to make your garden where you like. Is it the light I feel come flooding back in me? Or their charms broken here seeing your face? Your hands are warm. I'm not cold now. For an instant I'm not cold seeing your face. This is your wizardry. Let me stand here and see you and be with you. Love me a little. Come, Lisa. We'll go to your garden. The judge and the other guy. We'll get 400 years for this.  I got a thing. I think he won't do any good, Elkis. Check him to stay troopers. Quick, behind a rock. You see him? It's only those aren't troopers.  Boy, what a funny costume. Yeah. They looked to going over there towards a steam shop. Pretty weird, huh? Yeah. Real nervous. $498 appears. How you pretty stuff. Oh, you money pie. Hey, I wonder what happened to the other four bucks. Don't look at me. I think the little guy kept it.  Well, she'd come along now and show us how to get down off of here. If somebody would work that steam shovel, we could get in the bucket and ride right over to the other side. Isn't it too bad we're both such crooks? How do you mean? Otherwise we could draw lots. One send the other over.  You'd kill me for the amount of money I'm carrying right now. That's what I mean. Ain't it a shame? Awful. It's the... Oh, no. It's the gang. He's whispering in the big man's ear. And pointing. Yeah. Money back? You can have it back if you want it. We don't want it. Over to the steam shovel. Look what he's doing. That's the scoop. The way they're gesturing. I think they want us to get in. Is that it, fellows? Going to swing the judge and me across the chasm to the other side, huh? What do we do? I think we do what they want. Seems to be their show. All right. Move over and make room for all... Look at the little guy. He's got his crew on the winch. I don't know, and I don't care. I wish I was dead. That's your money, just to make sure I didn't snitch some. I think I'll do... Oh, the steam shovel. My dear Dewitt, bravely and courageously bent on breaking the sorcerous spell cast these long centuries over the abandoned Dutch. My dear Dewitt, sits on a rock, soothing a few bills with wit and glares at the steam shovel. Pure ease and rest, you doppelgangers. I'll beat you yet. With this green talisman will I defeat you, for Dewitt knows his sorcery. And what shall he wish for, now that he has the magic wish papers? But woman. Oh, a woman.  Let her appear. Ah, your man Dewitt. Over here, dear lady. Are you lost, too? Completely adored, ma'am, on my own mountain. Would you live on the mountain? I do. Then you are acquainted with Van... Van Dorn. I have seen him about. Have you seen him tonight? I have. Where? In the arms of the captain's wife and she, a married woman of some year standing. And where was this? Uh-huh. I'm a man of delicate sentiment, sweetheart. I'd not expose your beautiful eyes to such dastardly moral treachery. Forgive me. I'll look elsewhere. But I assure you, the lads head over ears, ma'am. And lo, you'd be to interrupt him. But he laughs like yourself should have no trouble replacing one sailor man with another in these stirring times. Thank you. All right. I am myself a notion of glad. Salt tears have been wet over me by one and another. No doubt. Hmm. I'm a blunt man. Could you find it in your heart to let me? I'm sorry. No. You could save me from the air sorcery with but a single kiss. See, I have the talisman. Look, someone's coming. Ah, if there be, watch what soldierly stand all David makes in defense of a lady. Yeah. David, master of the horse pistol. Come out, children of the new Satan. Show yourselves in the light. OK, shorty, let's drop the cannon. They point toys at me. We don't want no trouble, shorty. Just hand over the money and we'll all go home to bed. Gee, you'll guess you sound just like Humphrey Boga. Yeah. OK, OK, Jackson, get up the green stuff. Ah, the talisman. You want this, do you? That's the idea, pal. Only we want all of it, the full 25 Gs. Yeah, put down the cannon, see.  Brought charlotte manholes off fiends. Hey, look out. Let him have it, man. But in one more... Oh, he's taking money off him. Hey, hey, there's something funny about this guy. I can see right through. Full of holes in the tennis rack. Just one more. Right between the eyes. Nothing. Hey, let's blow. Me, I'm heading for Canada. Same here, old man. And deserted me even if I defended her honor. Rating does disturb my aching heart. Come back, dear lady. But see how the first flickerings of dawn do pale the river's face. Then, the lion. And this is a buttercup. And here's a touch-me-not. The touch-me-not's a shoe. A tiny golden shoe with a hairspring latchet for beanies to loosen. Where did you part from, Judah? Last evening. It seemed longer. You loved her very much? Yes. I love someone too. I love him still. No, you're mine now. I cannot be. There's too much life between us. Not for me. Even for you. You are weary? Well, the truth is that I sometimes sleep at night.  I'll hold you. I dare ask you something. Sure. There's so much that's changed. Must men still die? Oh, yes, yes.  Tell me.  I don't do all these. Have I been enchanted here? Can these strange new wizards cast bells to hold wrecked manor forever high on a mountain fringe? There are no wizards and no spells. Just men and women and money and earth. The way it's always been. It's not so sorry then. Now, can it be men die and carry since no memory of death? Not gray, not lined, not stricken down, but stamped forever on moving air and echo and an image. Could this be how men die? It may be, Lisa. I love you when you speak. Then I am dead. And all the crew is dead. Oh, you're cruel to lie here warm and living. When you wake, we shall be parted. And you will have a world, but I'll have none. Sleep, sweet.  Only this light.  Oh, are you Judas? Yes, and I just sleep. But when you wake, you will have him back. I don't know who you are. I'm but a friend of his. You left him bitter going away so lightly. I was bitter. And so we tried to play it beam lovers, but it won't do. Why are you crying? Am I crying? You're strange. The best you were strange to. Who are you? I'm afraid of you. Afraid of tears and a voice out of long ago. It's all I have. Lisa, the ship is on the river. Quick, there's haste. She must catch the tide down the stream. Catch the wheat you're waking. Hi. Who is the man? Her lad, but he was hurt and fell asleep. Ah, that could come quickly, the captain waits. Lisa, where are you going? The half moon, our ship is on the river. And we must catch the tide. Would you leave me now? Yes, I must. No, Lisa, don't go. Your hurt's quite cured. And mine's past curing. Let me go with you. No, we are of different worlds. What do I care of worlds? Any world you have, I'll make it mine. Give me your hand again. They dare not take you from me. They dare not touch you no matter who they are or where they're from. They have no hold on us. There were too many, many, many years. Cut out your hand. The dawn points with one purple finger, the star, to put it out. When it has quite gone out, then we'll be gone. Lisa, Lisa. The morning light strikes through us. And the wind that follows after rain, hugs at our sails. And so we go. And welcome you are to the age, too. An age of witches and paper and paper money and paper men. So that a poor Dutch rape, more man than the thickest of you. She never said goodbye. You were in love with her. She leaves the mountain bare now that she's gone. I came to tell you that I was wrong. Look, there's no ship at all. It faded into the dawn. And all the mist that hung about the tour, look how they lift. Pouring downstream with the wind. Whatever it was was said or came between us. It's all gone now, to this daylight again. I came to say it's only I could keep you. You should keep the tour or what you wished. I'm sorry I went. I'm sorry this has happened. But it has, and so. Should I keep the tour? Yes, if you'd like. I'll sell it if you'll stay. Won't you stay with me, Judy? I think I'd always hear you calling Lisa while I was standing by. I took a wrong turn in once when I left you and went down the hill. And now it may never be the same. Watch at the cliff, the great steam shovel bleeds bright orange in the clear. In the scoop dangling from the crane, judge Skimmerhorn and Arthur J. Biggs greet the new day. I wish I was dead.  Fall over. I'm tired. I'm hungry. I'm thirsty. The little the sun comes up a little. We're going to be pan-fried in this thing. Look, look down there.  It's a trooper. A beautiful morning. Yes, sir. I always say it's worthwhile being up early just to catch the sunrise. He's got my father with him. You're disappointed, huh, Papa? Go over 50. But we'll think it over. Can you describe it?  And you can see right through. Oh, yeah, you can see right through. And by the way, I can tell you where the sun is. Now where? On the ground behind you. Right under the shovel. How did you get there? Why don't you ask the gentleman up in the scoop? Ask the judge if he picked up any weight during the night. Oh, I kept a good deal. I think of my own could funnel these eggs back to jail, but... Aren't you going to help the judge down before you go? Oh, no, Bob. This is his death day. I'm letting me trail down. You can barely see. When I had lost the path halfway along the ridge, we came on together for as she led me. There'll be time for crying later. And you, my friend, you must forget this mountain. Forget? Forget the mountain? High Tor is now dead for you. This I know. Even as it passed from my people to yours, so now it must pass from you to these new men. Their mark is on it, and your time here is over. But let them come in despoiling for time is by the time, and these will not endure. Let them have this little hill and find your peace beyond. For there's no hill worth a man's peace, while he may live and find it. John, should I sell High Tor? There is wilder land, and there are higher mountains in the west. You will find them. Together, you and your woman, you must take her with you. Will you come, children? I'll remember Lisa. Was there a Lisa? I think she was my dream of you and me, and how you let them out and bear them once when you were gone. She was my dream of you and how you left the tour. Say you'll come with me. All right, then. I'll come with you. It's time now. One last look at the rock. There's nothing made by these new men high. Tower or cut or buildings by a lake that will not make good ruins. Ruins? Yes, in time. When these new men are gone or look aside only a little while, the white stone darkens, the wounds close, and the roofs fall, and the walls give way to rains. Nothing is made by man but makes in the end good ruins. Well, that's something. But I can hardly wait.


When a pond owner is having problems with species of leguigia or water primrose, there are several avenues that they have to manage this weed. Typically, herbicides or a chemical control are going to be the most effective. Options that a landowner have would be 2,4-D, which comes in a granular form and a liquid form, as well as glycophate, which comes in a liquid form. If the landowner is using a granular form, they must ensure that the granules are able to have good contact by sinking to the bottom of the pond. If using the liquid 2,4-D form or using glycophate, the landowner will need to add an adjuvant or a non-ionic surfactant to ensure that they have good contact with the plant.


Hello, everyone. It's great to be back home in Vancouver to talk about advancing gender equality in Canada and around the world. I want to thank Women Deliver's incredible team for putting this event together and for all the important work that they do every single day to make our world more equal. For the past 10 years, Women Deliver has been raising awareness and finding lasting solutions to the issues that overwhelmingly affect women and girls. Thanks to the women delivered investments in sexual and reproductive services, more women can now plan for their future. Thanks to the support of your organization in terms of women's education, young girls across the world now have the skills and tools they need to succeed. And thanks to your efforts aimed at eliminating violence based on sex, lives have been saved, and the voices of survivors are now heard. It is about increasing women's representation on the political scene, or encouraging their participation in the economy. Women Deliver seeks to reduce gaps that are still present in our societies, gaps that prevent the success of families, communities and countries all over the world. Here in Canada, we know that we cannot achieve our potential without the full participation of all our citizens. And even if we have made important progress in order to make Canada a more equitable country, there is still a lot of work to do here in China and abroad. That's why I can't think of a better host for the next edition of the Women Deliver Conference than Canada. In June 2019, Vancouver will welcome the world's largest conference on gender equality and the health, rights and well-being of girls and women. Like Canadians, Women Deliver believes that there is strength in our differences. We believe that the diversity of opinions, of backgrounds and of beliefs ultimately leads to better ink outcomes. The event brings together organizations and individuals from all walks of life who want to make a positive difference in their communities who believe in women as agents of change. Risk takers and problem solvers who are bridging gaps, breaking down barriers and delivering real results for women everywhere. And while 2019 might seem far away, we can't forget the important work that must be done every day to ensure that women and girls are living the life they want for themselves. So I want to invite the people of Vancouver and indeed all Canadians to shine a light on gender equality in the lead-up to this conference. Whether it be at school, at work, or at the dinner table, I invite you to take action and address the inequalities that linger and the injustices that endure. At home, Sophie and I are proud not only to be raising our daughter to be a feminist, but also our sons. We teach them that gender equality is everyone's business, that it's on all of us to make equality our reality. To raise our kids as feminists is to honour their future because they have the power to shape it for the better. So I invite you to ask yourselves, what does a gender equal Canada look like? What steps can we take, no matter how small, to bring that picture to life? These are important conversations we need not only to be having, but also to be acting on and living. For corporations, this could mean making a commitment to examine how empowering women enhances their global value. For teachers, this could mean teaching students about the women who are left out of the pages of our history textbooks and let their stories inspire new projects. You get to decide. My friends, my fellow feminists, we find ourselves at an interesting point in time. By all standards, the world is a better place for women and girls than it once was. But while our victories should fuel hope and optimism for the future, they should in no way distract from the battles we are still fighting and the progress we must still be making. We cannot afford to become complacent. We cannot allow inaction to stomp our momentum or let our ambition be bounded by our borders. So join us here in Vancouver for the Women Deliver Conference of 2019. Take part in the conversation and be part of the solution. Once again, I would like to thank Women Deliver for welcoming us here today. And thank you all for being here with us. Thank you, everyone, for all the work you've done, all the work you are doing, and mostly all the work we are going to do together to make gender equality a reality. Merci, mes amis. Thank you.


I'm studying at the University of Queensland, the University of Newcastle, Monash, University of New South Wales, University of Melbourne, University of Canberra, Southern Cross University, RMIT, University of New South Wales, La Trobe, University of Sydney, I'm studying at QUT, Monash, University of Technologies, University of Melbourne, Macquarie University, University of Southern Queensland, Australia National University.