untry who's also an author who will not appear on times now because he might find that some of the questions, my divisive responses for him that might expose his lack of balance. And I think that's timidity and I think that's very wrong. And I think that just shows there's an intellectual insecurity. If you can't stand and just stand door to door with somebody and argue a point and I'm sorry, you're not an intellectual. I think we have time for two quick questions, pretty short of a line. Yes, please. Can I get the mic? Sir, am I on? Please wait for a while to come to you. Hello, sir. Sir, as you told that, I do agree with your point when you tell that anchors can be opinionated. But I think that anchors are the privilege of getting the largest, the major screen time. So if they are opinionated in one direction, is not that problematic? Yeah, that's what I said. I added a caveat. As long as you, A, remain faithful to facts, you present the other side of the argument. Look, if there is a story, you know, demolition, et cetera, there are always two points to view. There will be some people who come out and say that these people weren't given to notice. You might have another side that says that municipal corporation that will always send them and order a month ago, this, that, the other. If you choose to mute one side, which says no due process was served here and you only present the SDMC or whatever you want to call it, the municipal corporation, north corporation, whatever it is, that one to view. And then you begin to expand and say, yeah, many bataya, this is, you know, a legitimate exercise. Then you're doing a disservice. If you say that two points of view, now you can take this, you can, you can, you obviously put them out there and then you say, well, having acknowledged these facts, we can still say X, Y or Z. And that's up to you and the way you sort of interpret it. As long as the viewer is very clearly told that there are two sides. Second, most importantly, there will be another side on your panel that will express the dissenting point of view if from you there is. And if you cancel that point out, then there is obviously imbalance, endemic imbalance in your show. Thirdly, which is something that I would like to reflect upon. I think people need to be a little more mature about accommodating another point of view which may not actually concur with your own. A lot of people who come to times now, perhaps, and this is why I think they do, is to interact with the point of view that they don't hear on any other channel. Now you might be very niche or you might be quite broad. Today, unfortunately, if you, I believed in certain things, certain principles for 25 years and I have a body of work. I went from an interview to a meeting media company when I was about 28 and they said you're too right for us, i.e. right of center. And I was stunned. It didn't dawn on me as too young to process it. But when I look back on it, I was basically canceled. Now what I'm trying to say is, and that ironically is a media organization that prides itself on being democratic and open. And when I look at it and I begin to process what I hear from that portal or from the company, I sometimes try to square their point of view on air with what I've experienced. I hope they've graduated to be more accommodating, but it's mature. It shows maturity if you interlocute with another point of view and you allow it to subsist. So as long as an anchor allows for that, you're okay. And you're telling the viewer up front, sorry to paraphrase Malcolm Schultz's name, that you have a point to view. So you're going to express it. We are the players of having you and let me do it. It's called unfilled. Let me ask you six questions. I believe you've already said six, nine or eight numbers from there. Coffee also by the way. He loves coffee. You can love coffee without drinking it. You can be involved in that too. That's it bro. So I must ask you, I do drink one coffee a day. I take tea, coffee, coffee. Coffee with Rohan and coffee with Anil. But drink with Anil. On a serious note, what is your most happy moment to be in general? That's a tough one. I think when you get up every morning, you feel excited about the news. I think I'm really happy about being excited about my job. I think that we do the best job in the world, quite frankly. You're exposed to so much. You learn so much on a daily basis. You're not just staring at the spreadsheet. I would love to if I go on business, but I don't. I'm not sure that brings people joy when they see the numbers going up. But I think when you get up every morning, there's a fresh story, something new to learn, something new to understand, something new to get your head down.  I think I'm being extremely politic by saying this. Because I really can't single out anything that makes me superlatively happy. I think the transition from print to TV, for me, was something I had to do. Do I enjoy it? Are we television? Not really. I don't even like to be on air. I don't do its job. I'm thinking of taking a break from it, in fact. News, news. And I'm trying to sort of move towards... Do you think I can take your place? Absolutely. You should ask everyone. We just... What is the most embarrassing moment on TV? Well, I have to say that recently, I started in a dual, and I didn't know the identity of the person I was speaking with. And just the other day, I was at this forum, the Times Forum in Bombay, Mechanums. And there was this young gentleman, young man, perhaps as old as the gentleman who asked me the question back there, and he came up to me and there was a young girl, and they said, we want to take a photograph. Do we really like her? Should we watch her? Great. I pulled off my mask and I stood next to this guy. He looked at me, and the moment I went to check the photo, he said, by the way, I just... I just died laughing.  So I think, you know, embarrassing in the sense that... I did set myself up for that, didn't I? People often ask, what have you done to the producer?  I realized that this was probably going to go a little viral, so I told him immediately, don't put it out on Twitter. Okay? Don't put this clip out on Twitter. But it went off on YouTube. I didn't even know people live on YouTube. Can you imagine? What's a show that's going live on TV, live on YouTube? You're doing your viewership. But it did. And of course, it went crazy, so I went to the producer and I said, guys, it's fine. You set me up. No, don't. Before I knew it. What is the one news media person you look up to and why? Well, that's a tough question. And look, there are several. I'm really a man of letters. I like writing. I love writing. I think I've worked with a couple of very good editors who are experts at the English language. I think it was phenomenal. I think I've worked under him. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. So. You know. Yes. Yes, okay? I don't think the grid falls all over my face. Mm-hmm. I agree. Yes. That's not it. I've been reading it for like 25 years. I think Bob Middleton's work has really influenced me. His irreverence, his typical British turn of phrase, I think it's phenomenal, A.A. Gill. As journalists go, fantastic body of work. I do read the national review and I think spectacularly curated and written magazine, the national review set up by one of the greatest in commentary. So, I think these guys really have something to talk about. I can see that you haven't taken the news TV journalist or a current journalist. No, I mean, I've talked about current, for example. I like the way he sort of steps himself up. I don't agree with him, we're on completely radical ends of the radical spectrum. I think I'm even going to cancel in the family, but that's okay. That doesn't still, you know. So, I think Rajthi was good. Vikram was fantastic when he was on air. Please give him a big round of applause. Give him a round of applause for Rajthi. You know, in Hina, we don't do, you don't do large or contemporary or various, you know, I think that's so spotty.  You know, we compete with each other. But I think at the end of the day, you've got to retain your soul. You've got to be able to get up in the morning and appreciate the others.  And I think- Anyone in media, you know, particularly- There are seven of them. Do you want to give them, you know, next panel? Inbind on Saturdays, you'll get the promo agreement. But, okay, my last two questions. One person outside news media and media that you look up, not for the, I mean, like, I look up to Kalli the rest of them, five feet more than me and not five feet more.  Two people, one person. I suppose, you know, look, again, it's good to learn controversial, but I think I sort of read it out to be in the other part there. I think he was a phenomenal mind. It's very good for Indian politics, actually. I think you've had, you are not really enamored by Mr. Nehru. It used to be at one time, Mahatma Gandhi is someone, obviously, that you would, you know, have a respect for. But again, I'm not lying to the critique of Mahatma Gandhi.  And I think I'm more, you know, not somebody who watches much cinema, et cetera, et cetera. So don't expect me to go, you know- Stop, give me a specific name. My last question to you. If you had to forecast one trend for media that we still haven't kind of got our hands around or it hasn't been talked since morning, we couldn't talk about some of the changes. Who can talk about some of the right things, who can talk about some of the changes. So one trend that we have not yet focusing a lot on. One prediction. Well, I think that I'm going to give this a slightly preachy. I think we need to really come together as a medium, as professionals. I think there is just too much, you know, backfiting that goes on. And I think that does a disservice because I find that we can't unify on some of the more important issues. And I think people can take advantage of that. And a severely divided media is not good for a country- Can we also- I think if I were to advocate anything, everyone could come up with a number of technical fixes, you know, to plow a different sort of, you know, trend in a particular field. But I think, I don't know, when was the last time 20 top journalists cutting across opinions, shades of opinions sat in one row and actually had an honest conversation. I think what we really need is truth and reconciliation in the media. Well, you know what to do now, right? If you haven't heard of this, then my friend will really know me, we'll try it, come back, I'll try it. You know, there is an industry body and there is such a hostility in that industry body. I know the name, four letter word. I know three letter word.   But as long as you're contesting ideas, I think we should be mature enough to sit together. Thank you. We have conversations. Just before I let you go, your viewpoint on the ratings.  I think there were certain expectations of, you know, the agencies. And I don't think all of them have been fulfilled. So I'm very, very, very trepidatious about the fact that the system is still open to the prospect of an understanding. I'll give you a multiple headline split. Yeah. So I'll give you two times soon. Sonia says, I've been saying this for 20 years and now I've always said whatever he has said about rating. Yeah, I think that, you know, somewhere along the line, that fills me with a little bit of apprehension. Now look, I don't want to blow up the times now it's trumpet and is that the other one? The release of the ratings is, put aside, I don't talk to the heap where I thought we always were. Now I'm not saying that, you know, this was my doing or the present teams doing. I think times now as a brand has been put up there and the credit goes to everyone who actually served that channel and the enterprise past, present and hopefully future. So I think that's important, but I do feel that while we can sort of revel in that, you know, I think what the rating system does is it sometimes pushes you into taking decisions that are tailored more for the taste of an audience, right? And that's a constant and perennial struggle. Many people say if you can't handle it, leave the kitchen. Obviously you have to, and you have to under even those constraints continue to do the job so that you can, you know, speak well with a clear conscience. I think that BAP needs to evolve. Into a system that- I don't want to say BAP will like legal offices from then very often. Oh, so are you saying that I'm speaking on your platform? I get people who do me or may not. You understand that. But your perspective has everything that was raised has been addressed. No. Has the manipulation and manual intervention has that been addressed? No one knows. I mean, I don't know. So I just hope it has. Look, the report is yet to be, I think, made public. Mistaken on the Scandinavian campaign we talked too much. No, they're not shared. So clearly not with us. So it's not with us. So people really like to see it. Do they have an internal panel that they wanted to report to that on how those issues that were raised by the industry have been fixed? So clearly that's what troubles their people. Yeah. Clearly now, I think, even you're on the same page at least on that. It may have been fixed, we don't know. Yeah, I mean, look, as I said, I hope it has been fixed. One expects it to have been fixed. I don't think anyone would want to subject themselves once again to that kind of scrutiny. At least about Bach, but frankly, you know, you know, you're on Esperanto's out there. Thank you so much. Give him a round of applause for Shantar and Ruhi. Thank you so much. My team, you know, I can't do all of that. I get up in the morning, you know, every day excited that's how I am. I mean, I'm excited when I'm sleeping. I wake up, I'm excited. But really, Ruhi and Priyanka, Khushar, they've put this together. And there are many other people, Sabeta, Shraddha, you know, these five, six people, the Samachar Pramigya team, you know, Anand, Pankaj, Vikas, the Nazia, my editor at exchange.com.com, at Pitch, Impact, Neeta. So they've really put this together. And as we shared tomorrow, we have the Samachar Pramigya for K to 14th week. And in the day, we have our ether and political spokesperson rankings. We're launching rankings of political spokesperson. And in June, we do the media debate. I'll tell you the top four thinkers and you know, spokesperson, party representatives from one side and the four from another side debating. And we also, in July, doing a debate between four journalists, Neeta, and four politicians about media. That's our Locust and I. So please give Raoval and my team an exchange for the LPL. So this is what we are doing there. And Raoval and we should work together. And so please give Raoval a big round of applause and give Raoval a big round of applause. I request Reshmiyaka Bahurya, Sosya Dhanadeya and marketing in our events. Exchange for media to guide the helpers for the state Raoval and show our gratitude for being here with us this afternoon. So next, we have a panel discussion and it's an honor to introduce you to this panel led by Dr. Bhuvailal, celebrated author, filmmaker and entrepreneur who is moderating the panel as well. We also have Reshmiyaka Professor of English Journalism and IIMC, Mr. Talunanjia, Associate Editor of Special Projects, USX, Mswati Khandilwal, Executive Editor of C-Business, joining in with deeply such they are independent journalists. And of course, that's your panel. I request all of you, once we have your chairs and the guys, everyone who's turning and shifting in their chairs, we'll have the lunch soon enough. I'm very, very sorry about the timing. We tried to accommodate the three more panels, including this one as quickly as possible. So the rest of the panels will take after the lunch. So after this panel, we'll have a quick lunch break. All right, so we'll do a keynote and then take a break. All right, once again, the panel includes Mr. Lal, Mr. Sneva, Ms. Khandilwal, Mr. Nandhya and Ms. Nairya. And we're talking about challenges facing journalism today. A pertinent and irrelevant question to ask the least. And of course, especially in the times where a lot of presenters, news reporters, anchors are not competing with other anchors, but competing with each other. I don't know for some whatever reason they're doing that. So absolutely irrelevant topic, challenges facing journalism today. And I'll hand over to Mr. Lal. Mr. Lal, could you please sign? So now I have the panel on the rise and I'll request all of you to kindly put your hands together and help me work in the panel for two months or so. And if I can request all of you to kindly put your phones on in silence so that we can actually enjoy the conversation that we're going to have in this section. Thank you. Good afternoon ladies and gentlemen, Ashkar.  You certainly feel that being in journalism is being a bit of a challenge before journalism. Challenges facing journalism. This is a subject that we discussed for many, many days. Let's forget just the half about it. Before we jump into that, I must compliment Mr. Lal Bhakran's team for identifying 40 journalists under the age of 40 and giving this country a hope for the future of journalism. How many of us are aware of who was the first Indian journalist who win the famous Pulitzer Prize? Anybody not? You've all heard of the Pulitzer Prize? Can anybody tell me who was the first Indian to win the Pulitzer Prize? 1937, when we were still ruled by the British, an Indian called Govind Bihari Lal working in America who was a freedom fighter and had gone to jail in California for the Indian Freedom Movement was the first Indian to win the Pulitzer Prize. Were they related? Any chance there? Unfortunately, I'm not related to him. I wish I was. Just Lal. There will be a lot of love in this country starting with Javahara Lal. I'm not related to anyone. So let's get back to the panel. We have with us some of the finest minds working in our business. They have been on television. They have been behind the screen. They have been training people to obey on television and write. For me, journalism is primarily the search for truth and in the search, creating credibility. Are we doing that? In 2020, when Twitter is being acquired by Tesla, we all talk about challenges for a nation. I would like to start with Dr. Surabhi. You are teaching at an institute. What are you telling your students? What is happening in our business? It will be love for having me here in this town. Well, when I teach my students, we try and be very, very objective. When I teach objectivity in news, there are some students who ask me when they work on the business side of the news. So I also add on classes related to the media management and business side of the news that how business models are changing or how a D2C model is now going on. So there are so many challenges that we see in the industry, really beginning from top security to read boards to the flood of opinions and fake news in the media. So we try and deal with the misinformation, and inform our students, teach our students, delivery on topics like how to combat fake news. So we try and also into the technological part where we teach them the artificial intelligence what Vikram Chandra was just talking. So I always tell them that you should be a one-man art if you have to work with an Indian media company. What do you know about it? Same. One-man art. They don't. One person. One man or one woman army. We have... Vikram Chandra facing a modern journalist. Somebody's stepping into the audience. Hi, a very good afternoon to all of you and thank you, Anurag and the entire team for putting up such a great show. I think what you have said in your introduction kind of sums up the real crisis in journalism today. If anyone says there is no crisis in journalism, they are lying. They're completely lying. I mean, the very fact that it's become an us versus there in journalism is extremely sorry. I mean, we've never been taught that in our journalism. I started at the day we shoot down. We've never been told that it's gonna be us versus there. You cannot have different versions of truth. You can have facts. You talk about objectivity. But I think it's again unfair just to point your finger at the TV for doing that. I have been a television journalist for over 18 years now, 18. And I've had the good fortune of working across the best news brands with the best evidence. Everywhere you get to learn, you get to involve a lot of things. But I have not been told or say anywhere that you need to say yes, you need to do that. I think that is completely and completely up to an individual journalist. Because at the end of the day, it is about your television. I worked with NDP. I worked with Times High, I worked with the public. So I have covered most of the English media genre to understand. And the very fact today that TV is held guilty of just putting forward its bias in civilian. Yes, it has. We were just listening to Rahu Shiv Shankar and he's not here and you're right now. I would disagree with so much he said. It is an ideal world to come and sit there and say that it should be this, it should be that. Definitely it should be that. But I think each one of us today is responsible for what we do in whatever field we are. I mean, I cannot blame a particular editor for behaving in a certain manner. No, there are so many times that you might just see that something is happening on some other channel. You know, you're reporting in a particular fashion. You might just be pressed to say, oh, you also have to do this because you have to compete. But then I told my editor, I'm not doing this. I was going to start, you know, this yard piece and we'll start y'all and no matter what we do in life. I said, no, there is no need to do that. I will decide, bring on the field, what is important for me to do at that particular time. If I think the situation matters, that I need to run after him, I need to chase him. I will do that. But if it is not required and it is just to kind of, you know, for the sound system, you know. But it's a woman, what it is, it's a independent woman, you know. Okay, all of us independent, because that doesn't exist, either. We all should be independent. You can have an opinion fine, but I being a journalist cannot put my opinion or go my opinion, push my opinion anymore. That has been unfair. That's completely been unfair. But the last one that I want to say before I toss it back to you is, there is still a lot of proof in the social media, but I think once on the social media, now you've seen a tendency of picking sides, picking and choosing sides. And I think that is again very, very dangerous. Because the moment you start distracting your viewer, the moment you start putting in conspiracy theories, the moment you start compromising with facts, and the moment you start creating a surround system, there is something that you want to hide. Wow, you are a great person to be able to see all of it. A lot of people I know in this business don't have that kind of internet issue. There's a movie called Citizen Game considered one of the finest films ever made. And there's a line in it. There's no war in Cuba. That's what the journalist told me, if there's no war in Cuba, it won't work. So are we inventing you, rather than making you? That's my question as well. Sorry, sorry, one second. I just want to say one more thing. It's not about the big, great, overwhelming cultures. I think every one of us is women. Any journalist that I know, my friends, a lot of them say that right now, they're doing far better than what we know. But the tragedy is that we start out you know the tragedy is that we start identifying news with just say five to ten people. That is wrong. Every journalist today out in the field is doing a tremendous work. I mean, we really need to identify that. We need to appreciate that. It is not easy to do this. Even if it's not, and his news is just not limited to the five, six anchors that we have run back every day. News is so much more. As these anchors and your people are really going to do that. They don't do that.  A lot of them do not go out without their security for private security. It's that bad in a lot of areas.  They can be a whole lot of people. It's that. It's that. It's that. It's that. It's that. It's to find out things that people are not aware of. Now, it may not be negative always, as I say, but yeah, it has to be something that people should know and feel that this piece of news is giving them something more than that, what they already need. So I think information over it has to come down in whatever way it can. And I think, Accuracy and speed has to be given as much importance with the credibility of the information. So the checks that we do at our organization is something that we do also in the social media world because a lot of fake news stuff and people have talked about it already in the previous panelist that has to be addressed. I think some kind of regulation self-regulation also becomes particularly important. So that becomes a challenge for me. Thank you. You have a legal background. And she's talking about regulation. You think external regulation is required in the agency, especially in the government? Thank you. You're welcome. Thank you. And I would like to share with all the people. You have a problem. Generally, try to break it into the smallest, it's easier for us to stand and tell you how. There was a channel and a prominent editor. He was writing a story of illegal parking. Now parking is a big issue in all cities of India because nobody follows the development plan and development plan for the city. So every building needs to have a plan. We have a huge campaign, illegal parking everywhere. Near my office, there is nothing about it. The campaign ran for a while. I saw the campaign and since I do prominently a legal show, I called him. I said, sir, I have visited your office building many times.  The ground floor, which should be used as a parking, you are using it as an office. The seventh floor should have a refuge area for fire safety. You don't have a refuge area. You have a studio on the seventh floor. So what the reality is that you are talking of, you are committing yourself. So the first notice from the municipality or the authority should come to your office. The campaign was discontinued within the next 10 minutes. The problem is there. You don't read and then you try to, in a sense, give huge summons. That's the problem with editors. You are not read. So it is important that if you are doing journalism, you go to your BPMC Act, which is the Bombay Provincial Municipal Corporation Act, which if I could tell all of you is applicable in Delhi because it was co-opted for all other municipalities in India. It is important for us to read these basic documents. Of course, you can tell the nuclear deal or other important issues, which of course a lot of people anyways won't read about. But what you see is day-to-day is more important. And for that, you have to read your basic law in absence of basic reading. So I'll tell you because I gave you this example. I was sitting with an industrialist and he told me one thing. A lot of your news anchors and a lot of your presenters looked like they've just come out from the ramp into the studio. There's a lot of form. There is no substance. They've got absolute rubbish for 25 minutes and so I don't watch TV anymore. Because it doesn't seem that this chat has read anything. He speaks very good English. The English is very slick. It looks very good. But when he talks, it makes no sense. So in a sense, we are alienating our core audience. There are, of course, as we pointed out, there are some issues which are taken up by the media on a day-to-day basis, which have brought a lot of people watching them, popular issues. If it's a temple issue, people will watch. If there's some other popular issues on a day-to-day, we give a lot of value to statements given by important people. For example, anytime anybody is made a minister, you make him a chief guest, regardless of whether he knows about the topic or not. Just go back and think, would you invite that person if he was not in the chair? So I remember a health minister who I want to name. He came on the dais once in one of the functions. He goes to speak about health and just decided to move the dialogues for half an hour. And everybody was laughing at him, of course. There are many things to correct here, but what we have gone on as media, which today is not media, not what politicians, is that we stopped reading and started sermonizing, simply because we have a mic in our hands. So if we just go back to reading the books and then maybe we start to make better sense and coming back to your question now, when you said about external regulation, see, anywhere in the world, especially in democracies, no external regulation works because any form of external regulation and because eye-priming of a legal law office will be mandated by bureaucrats, judges. There will be no media guys sitting there. They will sit in judgment day in day out on what editors do. And that will be a big problem because then everything that you read or what is written about will be scrutinized from the point of law. It will become very difficult to work. So no external regulation for media can ever work in any democracy. And I think we should not even talk about this. We have censorship for films. But that is, censoring itself is a wrong word. Censoring in my view shouldn't be done, of course, for some, if you're inciting hatred, there should be censorship. But why should there be censorship for routine movies? There's no casey when the OTTs came in. OTT showed all kinds of concepts, was it back-conflict too? But you have censorship for films but no censorship for OTTs. And OTT is doing perfectly fine. So that's my limited answer to your question. All of you are saying very important things. I wish we had more time. I'm going to continue till I'm stopped. Because these are the issues we are facing. There's an issue of celebrity culture, for example. And you invite people to speak on subjects if they have no relationship. So just because somebody gave me an honorary doctorate, I got a channel calling me and they said, we are going to talk about vaccination, proper stuff. Can you speak? I said, what kind of doctorate some people think I am? There's no relationship between me and the medical profession. He was so insistent. It's just the way the research is done today about big subject to leave. And limited time they get to put together a panel, maybe a few of us start calling you for a panel, so they get to know us. Are we creating a society in which celebrities are more important than the real issues the country is facing? A marriage of two individuals becomes a subject of national importance and not the life of a javan who is serving in the border right now and how his family is doing it. Are we going in that direction? Exactly, yes. So what should be a priority of a country that is celebrating its 70th year of independence? I completely agree and I say this, that it's us who are making that happen. I mean, all of us, with the views that we give to such all the attention or the importance to these events, make it the relevant, right? I mean, I don't want to watch it. It's like saying that the more likes and the more followers you get, that's how you are evaluated. So, you know, so the marriage of the two stars becomes a big talking point because people want to watch every move that they can get to know of that. So it's really about how the society is reciprocating to that view and how we are then forced. And also, I mean, in many ways, pushing to, you look at the paparazzi and the kind of stress that it creates for all of us, today said that the safety of these people, learn how they just, everything to get that one shot, right, of the celebrity. And what does it give anyway? It's just entertainment. And as you said, the real issues are getting completely straight away. And I said, the good news never sells. It's just the tougher situation that one talks about is what that left everyone's attention. In this case, entertainment obviously is the biggest form of news selling at this stage. And that's why we are not bringing up celebrities.  We have been around for thousands of years. Why do we get into frivolous issues? Why do we get into frivolous debates? Evening after, and you get some of those obnoxious people who, you know, we don't really need to watch. They become celebrities because television and the journalists are here at the time. Who's been in this decision?  And you're in the studio, you feel people watching. People don't watch you. And go out on the street and ask if people watch you. They watch you and you're close to the lines.  That's what I'm saying. I was speaking on Netflix and all that. Thanks for that. I was talking to Gujarati, let's put some time back to Delhi. He said, in your news, what is it for me? I said, it's for me, so why do you think it's for me? So, in the end, what happens is it's all good to speak into your accent, but in that day, what are you? When this gap is to the given one, what are you giving him? If you're not giving him or watching him, you may feel you're sitting in the studio being watched, nobody watches you. I think I've been given implications of the lunches, but so people don't watch anybody. But we take two questions. Let me just ask two questions. Yes, sir. OK. Just two questions from the audience, anybody? I have a question. When is the lunch being served? I'm sorry. Why don't we ask the question to the audience? Why don't we? Why don't we? I think we've got so many things in the bag. So I don't know what your opinion of news is. I mean, it was very fashionable, but I don't remember during our times when we studied. There was so much of glamour to be a journalist. You had a completely different outlook of what being a journalist is. Still, you were thrown into the real field. You were told to go and get coffee for people. Go and logaves.   I want to think about a change. So your editor tells you, OK, go. You're going to bring a change going through the story. You're going to do this. See, that is the kind of introduction we all had. Now, the other journalists and students are anyone who studied. I mean, but how long do you spend time watching news on television?  This us versus them doesn't have a close to your society, your real group. Is it becoming a part of it? Every drawing room, every dining table, probably around the world. Anyway, I see the young ones at the back and some of them are raising their hands. Yes, they are so white. Go ahead. In the meantime, how might you reach as you are? How might we look up to one? And once we reach as it's small group, please go ahead. Sir, my question is with respect. Oh, they're going to call. In the meantime, I also consider myself from the same age group. And to be fair and honest, I grew up watching some of the journalists that I adored and admired and honestly kept. I mean, their words meant more to me than my own father's. And I actually lost all of that admiration and love and all the adjectives that you can add on while I saw people competing not for the fact, but for the PRPs and of course for the eyeballs and the attention. And honestly, some of the broadcasters out there are not really competing with each other, they are competing with each other. You know, it's all about getting the attention, but hey, the CSP squared. I haven't got the mic yet. You haven't got the mic? Wow. Okay, then please stop. That's why we do that a lot as journalists. Please go ahead. So my question is with respect to sensationalism. Recently in this, there was this Rajasawa debate in which one of the D.U. Prophecy has given this theory with respect to sensationalism. The news is that because we live in this capitalist society, competitiveness is requisite as a byproduct. We have the social anxiety and in order to specify. Social anxiety, we refer to something which is relevant to us and that is sensational news. So if sensationalism is providing tranquility for somebody, why is it a vice? Go ahead. Anybody. Does sensationalism provide you tranquility? There could be like vice, recently there was this reporter who was dancing and conveying news. We just discussed this after the debate. Yes. So he's made a good point. Sensationalism again, credibility in truth, facts and sensationalism. I mean, we know the problem. The best part is much like a conference party, we know what the problem is. But then we do not want to solve it. Or you believe that there's going to be someone who will come and solve this for you because we all consider moral judgment instead of platforms that make our observations. But when it comes to watching these channels, you would want to go and watch them. I don't know what they give to you. I would also have a viewpoint on what they are so bad. They are doing this. They are dividing the society. So I don't know. There's something that keeps going on. Thank you for being sensational speakers on a sensational panel. And we'll continue the same section after the show. Thank you. I would request the panel to stay back on the dice for a moment. While I invite Mr. Sunil, our president at Exchange for Media Group, to hand out the momentum to all the speakers, the panelists for DK with us. And we'd like to express our gratitude with the momentum from our lifting partners. Love birds, flower arrangements, thank you so much. And being your copy of course. Also, FYI, a lot of this also happens in the news arena right now when you're speaking, you're cut off in between. So, Ravel is not the first one to do it. We have a lot of examples of that happening. So with that, we'd like to thank the panel once again. Thank you so much, ladies. Thank you so much. Please put your hands together and show our gratitude to all the panelists for being here with us. So the last session before we play for lunch is with Mr. Bishop Gulagli, managing editor at News X, who's joining us on the dice, along with Mr. Ruheel, our main senior editor at Exchange for Media. Someone said that we cut that person short. I'm sorry, this is a video for us. Thank you so much. I'm really sorry. You're running late. If I can request you to put your hands together for this week, that's all. Thank you. So what we've been doing since morning, all anchors who know that other people talk, they're interrupting contributions. So pretty much the similar questions, because we have different perspectives. From your side, I want to understand, isn't anything wrong with you doing so much criticism time for young people all the time? In your view, is there anything wrong with you? If there is, what is that? Let me strike a different note, Ruheel, to a very serious and important one. I mean, since morning, if people have been doing this far longer than I have. Let's start with reality.  Starting off in a career like journalism is a heck of a ride. From what you expect to what the reality is, changes in perspective as your hair grow grayer. So I began my career in NDTV, where of course, as mentioned in the previous panel discussion, you must have spent, you know, translating Balqa's interviews, okay? And one day, I think it was Brahma Gandhi's interview, and I sent her a reply to his point in the headlines. He asked me, who is this guy? You sent Balqa her headlines and news points from her interview, as a trainee, and I was not supposed to do that. So, the people might not know it. You guys might think that they're watching us on TV, or conversations are not happening. They are happening and their influence is there. Rahul, who was my boss, the man is in the machine. If you want to learn how to work in the moment, seven in the morning, five at night every day, our views. So yes, in popular culture, if you watch the movies, we are all going to give you 10 minutes of PRT that the investors can do. And we're all sold out. I think there is more and more people sitting here are always trying to do their best every single day. I think there is an over take. I want to talk about emotions. In the end, you're telling a story to people to emotion. You are part of what is going on.  And as you bring influence within the industry, as you have to make editorial decisions, influential things can be taken. I'll give you a very small example. Two years ago, we decided that the people who come on television, the difficult debate is that we want to do something and everything in this, somebody with a production, ask somebody to do something and they're directly at the end of the stage. Sometimes you are the people doing this. So they're starting off the argument. So then you can come and see. You can choose not to happen. You can choose to have power action on people.  You see one TV channel, the same guest. So there are choices that you can make. Amount of effort, research, the quality of guests, the gravitas that comes in. So he has to work really hard. Spend the time to do what we have to do eight times a day. So that is a small nugget that he has. But then in order to engage with an audience that wants to actually listen to this subject, that's a great example. Audience also, audience side has to be important. They watch it and that's why people scream. We never raise that point. We always bring in the TV actors. When do we hold audience also accountable that they also have a choice? If I start shouting at you outside of the room, people will get it. So I'm going to come back to the sensible argument that if you want people to even hear a snippet of what you're saying, you're going to have to either appeal to some kind of emotion. Emotion in generally TV catered to his jingoism, want to get pumped up about something, charge of the light brigade kind of emotion.  But there is also hope and inspiration. And there is a counter trend. Look at the number of motivational speakers out there. Life coaches. People who write inspirational books, people who give TEDx talks, they're very, very powerful. So there is an art people wanting to be told not just good news that over days a bright sunny day and start training because we see bad news is looking for inspiration. When you're looking at television, you want to be inspired. You want to have the yes, we can hope and opportunity. But for that editors, journalists, reporters, news anchors have to then have the ability, which is what the profession is. It's not news, it's communication. You have to have that gravitas to hold somebody's conversation. If you're not, you know, I've used one example. It's the difference between a comedian who has to find the jokes, write the jokes versus slapstick comedy. I throw pie on your face, very funny, easy. Get the right intonation and timing. I agree with the audience here. We are really great. Two questions, quick questions. Turn please. TV Angers can start. What became really popular? Foreign policy began. So what goes behind decision making when you think that okay for the next 10 days we are going to foreign policy let other channels do popular stuff but we'll stick to this. We'll stick to the America. We did in the past class. What goes behind that decision making process? I'll give you a short answer. In the day to day objective when you're sitting down and making a decision the small decision you have to make is where is this country going? And what is the additional value you can add? That's my job. I am not immune to watching everything else. I know what is happening and I know this has been covered. What is the value addition that I am immune to? I have some decision making power and therefore I have that microphone which people might not be risking somebody might be. The decision making has to be done and I have a very young editing. Every day is 25. Apply your mind to everything. You see an observation and this is a bulldozer and this is a riot and this is a provocative speech. Apply your mind because every time you also give attention to the guy making the provocative speech the other guy is telling you, sir, take provocative speech then you'll be prime time debate. You'll have a star who will go to JNU for three seconds and she's got all the publicity in the world because we are all fascinated by it. They're doing things which make an in favor. So it's about understanding that the country needs to have a larger role in it. We need to have an opinion on global affairs and what is the small role that can be played to contribute on it? And they're really, really sorry and we break for lunch. Okay, we can have one position. Can I just small thing? My thanks to the exchange for media team and Dr. Khattra for doing exactly what Rahul was saying is getting people together. You have to get after people, journalists especially, they all have it, it's very fundamentally important because unless it's journalists we all sit down together and have a 10-year, 20-year time. We need to give you a small example which is the point I'm going to make. Five years from now if a sexual assault happens inside the Metaverse are you going to have a Metaverse meet of reporters with Aftar who are reporting from inside the Metaverse on this issue? So these are things we need to figure out and exchange for media is a great platform and thank you guys for it. Thank you Rishabh. Thank you very much. Can I please request that moment to thank you? Thank you Mr. Gulaki. Thank you so much for being here. Thank you for the wonderful moderation once again. So we'll take a short break for lunch. What time are we coming back? What time? By train we'll be very happy for all of you to take your seats because we'll be diving into the last session for the day and then of course we'll be recognizing and recording the best of the talent in the space with the awards that we have. Thank you so much. Yes, another announcement and this one is the usual one that you hear from, I like your mic. I'll tell you the number also. It's a black card and 1963 is the number. If it's yours, best of luck buddy. Please move it. Otherwise you'll have to do it in order to get it back.  If it's yours, please move it. I'll let you listen to the mic. You can hear a sound from the console. It's a orange card. Give me a little, give me a little, give me a little, give me a little. Give me a little, give me a little, give me a little, give me a little. Give me a little, give me a little, give me a little. Give me a little, give me a little, give me a little. Give me a little, give me a little. Give me a little, give me a little. Give me a little, give me a little. Give me a little, give me a little. Give me a little, give me a little. Give me a little. Give me a little, give me a little. Give me a little, give me a little. Give me a little, give me a little. Give me a little, give me a little. Give me a little, give me a little. Give me a little, give me a little. Give me a little, give me a little. Give me a little, give me a little. Give me a little, give me a little. Give me a little, give me a little. Give me a little, give me a little. Give me a little, give me a little. Give me a little, give me a little. Give me a little, give me a little. Give me a little, give me a little. Give me a little, give me a little. Give me a little, give me a little. Give me a little, give me a little. Give me a little, give me a little. Give me a little, give me a little. Give me a little, give me a little. Give me a little, give me a little. Give me a little, give me a little. Give me a little, give me a little. Give me a little, give me a little. Give me a little, give me a little. Give me a little, give me a little. Give me a little, give me a little. Give me a little, give me a little. Give me a little, give me a little. Give me a little, give me a little. Give me a little. Give me a little, give me a little. Give me a little. Give me a little. Thank you so much ladies and gentlemen for joining us this beautiful afternoon. This is the first edition of English journalism 40 under 40 awards. And as Dr. Batha rightly pointed out, it's going to grow bigger and bigger every single year. Just like all the other IPs are presumably more than 150 to 200 IPs that the brand is running here. It's all of you here and it's truly an honor to be the host for the day amongst the young bright industry journalists that we are here to support and celebrate from the top news channels in India. The change for media's first edition of English journalism 40 under 40 is trying to recognize professionals in the domain to print, television or digital. The list will include editors, reporters and course journalists, marketing and digital media professionals, videographers, news producers and video editors and much more. To a rigorous and exhaustive truly process. The list of 40 outstanding individuals as so rightly pointed out was a tough task to do, but we've tried our best to get to the point because at the end it's the democracy that's on four pillars. Legislature, executive, judiciary and the press. And in all fairness, a teacher teaches the group to a few. But a journalist shows societies at large what essentially is true. So we've tried our best to shine the light back on the journalist and I hope and we hope that you all will show your appreciation while we invite all the 40 on this very rise. So before we move on, I will thank all our partners for making this possible. This is the first edition and of course I would like to showcase the partners on the AV screen for you all. Media, a name synonymous with the latest news about the advertising industry in India. The Exchange for Media Group set up in 2000 has the most credible media platforms covering the entire advertising, media and marketing domain with its highly acclaimed digital, print and on-ground assets. The group's flagship news portal, ExchangeForMedia.com, reaches over 6 lakh subscribers who are the first to receive breaking news in the industry. The passing website not only covers the news but goes beyond the office to bring in a fresh point of view. Impact, the weekly news magazine from the group is the most widely read business magazine in the advertising trade within depth analysis and news based features providing perspective to key happenings in the industry. The monthly pitch magazine provides a ringside view of events unfolding in the marketing landscape along with media and advertising. Another monthly magazine, we have more videos with you, your looks can be liked, that's the first. Okay, so let's have the jury area quickly then we move on with yours. ExchangeForMedia's first edition of English Journalism 1315 recognises professionals in the domain, the print, television and digital. The list will include editors, reporters, anchors, journalists, marketing and digital media professionals, videographers, news producers and video editors. Through a rigorous and exhaustive jury process, the list recognises 30 outstanding individuals who will be the trendsetters for their peers and have demonstrated insights and knowledge in their respective spheres of work. To arrive at the English Journalism 40 under 40 list for the year 2021, the first step was to call for the nominations. This year, we received an overwhelming response of 150 nominations from the industry. A high power jury scored the nominees on the basis of career history, leadership, creativity, new initiatives, awards and recognition, impact and influence, growth prospects and arrived at the end result. The year 2021 has been one we have never seen before, which is why going through these incredible entries this year was pretty special for the members of the jury. The nominations being reviewed showcased just how well the young industry talent stepped up to the new challenges brought on last year and truly proved their nettle. Here's a quick look at the fantastic industry leaders who are part of the jury this year. Sukumar Rambinathan, editor-in-chief in this time and times. Dr. Anurad Ghatra, chairman and editor-in-chief, business world and exchange for media. Rahul Shiv Shankar, editor-in-chief in this time and times. Rahul Shiv Shankar, editor-in-chief in this time and times. Sonia Singh, editor-in-chief, MDTU. Rahul Shiv Shankar, editor-in-chief and editor-in-chief, times now. Rubin Ruchovic, editor-in-chief and CEO India Ahead PMs. Veer Samphi, editor, columnist, television host and food critic. Palki Sharma Upalthia, executive editor, Vion. Dr. Nalini Mahat, Dean, School of Morning Media, UPES. I in the jury experience was absolutely fantastic because it created a sense of the bright new talent that's coming into the industry. The reporters did a great job, anchors, the people on the desk. So it really gave me a chance to almost encounter some of the people I'd heard about with a really innocent of anything. There's some really, really bright people in the industry with that in mind. I didn't find it 40 years or 40 years is a really important process because as in every field, you know, sometimes journalism, well-known names, it's important to understand and to recognize and to recognize them early enough that the young people are there in the business. The people are actually out there in the field and are making a difference. So 40 under 40 journalism is a great place to do it. Perhaps 30 under 30 can also be considered in some way. I've been very impressed by the caliber of all the young journalists that we met today. It's been very, in fact, rejuvenating for us veterans to see all the enthusiasm, excitement and more than that, the commitment and dedication that they have to journalism and as I said across platforms, whether it's digital or television, I think it's really, really exciting to see how much talent there is out there and I'm really excited to have been part of this process. So I think it's actually great because journalists are getting younger every day and I think it's nice to actually when they're still new or maybe just about a few years in the profession, I think it's a nice gesture. I think it's actually really important to give a signal that they're going the right way and I think the fact that they've been judged by journalists also is very important because I think it's nice to recognize their talent from people who've been in this profession for decades. I think actually it's really great that there's coffee under 40. And I think it's nice to have such a distinguished jury of journalists for actually judging. Thank you. Back to thanking the opportunity of being part of the jury. I think Anura has come up with a very interesting IP focusing on the under 40s and future of Indian journalism at the best of times. It's difficult to not only evaluate yourself but other talent in the industry. When it comes to the future, the next generation that's going to inherit the management, it's even a greater responsibility and therefore it was really a privilege to be part of this exercise. Thank you very much and best of luck. All the entrants got a chance to be presented at which denomination in front of the jury panel. And following some intense discussion and debate, the esteemed jury arrived at the final list of the English journalism 40 under 40 achievers for 2021. A special thank you to each of our jury members for the time and effort they've put in to bring up the list. We congratulate all the winners as we move towards the moment we've all been moved forward. The unveiling of the top-ranking, brightest young investors in the US of the future. English journalism 40 under 40 on the jury members. Congratulations for the winners. There we go. I have an opportunity to thank our partners once again. Valued 360, Grail Cell, VR and Pobol AI for their uniting support in the first edition as well. Some of you who wanted to clap for them, you can actually do that now. All right. If you enjoyed the conversations earlier today and if you enjoy your awards, you can use the hashtag E4L English Journals of 40 under 40 and spread the word around. With that, without taking any more time, I would like to invite our stage, the chief guest for the day who's been kind enough to join us, Uday Mahulkar, Central Information Commissioner for India to kindly join us on the stage. And I'll request you all to put your hands together while I'm talking about that as well. And people, this might be an opportunity for all of you to practice how you clap for the rest of the awardees. So go ahead. All your hearts out to the round of applause. Fantastic. Thank you. Yes, and a plug-in for the book is from Lovebirds. Thank you so much. Thank you, sir. I'll request you to stay back to help us felicitate all the winners that will be coming off of the stage. I'd also like to invite on stage Mr. Sukumar Ranganathu. Yes. Can we invite the professor to say a few words to all the winners going to be? I think it's a great initiative by Dr. Anurag Batra. And it will go a long way in encouraging and inspiring upcoming journalists. I want to put a few things here. You see, there is a lot of training over the last time. I joined in an experience in 1984. And I had covered the riots in Gujarat. And many events that have happened. I was in Gujarat in 1980 and in 2015, I came to Delhi in 2015. Whatever experience I have in Delhi and of course, a wide experience in Gujarat. You see, there was something which we called mentoring. There is a lot of training now. When I joined, I think there was one university in Kerala which used to give training in journalism. But there was a lot of mentoring. I remember when I joined in 1984, I brought one very good story. I was in a training, you know. And I gave that story to the chief reporter, Mr. Mistry, a very experienced man. And I really respect him now. He is very old now. He gave it to a gentleman and told him that he has got this very good story. It's an investigative story. He is taking him along and do this story together. But he was so protective about his sources that he did not take me along. And then he did that story entirely himself. Then he called me. What is your name? Mr. Mistry saw it. And he was very angry with it. So that is called mentoring. Training? There is no sense of training now. I think we need to devote time to seniors with all due respect to what Sukumar said. I think seniors have a role to play when it comes to mentoring. I very strongly believe so. Mark Weston. Mark Weston is a very narrow term. I think mentoring is the right thing. Training and mentoring are two different things. Of course, I was in magazine journalism. Maybe I have not seen certain things. But I can very clearly see this mentoring part has come down. People don't have time. I think all seniors should resolve. Train some good people. And another thing to layer is that I don't like it. I think that is also very wrong. Any new person is coming. I don't want to mentor him to seniors. So that is what I would like to say. Thank you. Another question. Mr. Sukumar, Ranganathan, to kindly join us on the stage to help clarify the winners. And of course Dr. Bhattna to kindly join the lot. Mr. Ankit Prasad, founder and CEO at Bobble AI also. If I can request you to kindly join us on the stage to help give out all the rewards and recognition to the winners coming up on the slides. So whenever you are ready, I'll start the awards. There is one section of the first edition English journalism, 40 under 40 awards. There we go with the first winner. Can we please have a look on the screen to know who the first winner is. And the award goes to Ardash Vipachayu. India Ape Putes. So the awards have been announced in the alphabetical order and no other preferences. Thank you. Thank you so much for joining in this beautiful architecture. Big shout out to my beautiful life. My father was Sonia from Hyderabad for this. And it's a big shout out to Sonia Prasad and Dr. Prasad. Thank you so much. Congratulations to others once again. Let's really have a look at the next winner of this year's list. And it should be on your screen any second now. I love how you have stopped clapping even before she went on the stage. I would like to really apologize to all the winners who will be coming up on the stage. That's exactly what I was saying that we might not be able to do that. The boss says it should be on your screen. We'd also like to request all the winners to kindly take a picture once they are done with the award. So that, ladies and gentlemen, we'll move on to our next award for this afternoon. Let's quickly have a look on the screen to know who that is. And the award goes to Akharsha Bhanwar. FYI account is trying to make her way to the stage. So if you see the winners coming in, you might want to help them out. It's a closed room and congratulations to the ladies once again. Let's have a huge round of applause. Just making it clear that she's United on another award. So congratulations and we'll move on to the next winner that we have for this year's list. Let's have a look. The award goes to Ananya Adachaya. A few seconds. This is for the India Today group. This is for my mentor who is sitting right here in the audience. I'm very happy to be here. Always have a great time. Of course, I'm here at home watching this song. Thank you so much. Thank you, India Today Group. Thank you. Congratulations. Let's quickly have a look at the next winner of this year's list. The award goes to Arun Dhani Ramana. She is the team leader. Rishi Rima is there and she is somebody who has been here with the news, media and Eric Ogier's domain. With one it would be nice for everyone's case while she is getting the award. Anywhere you've been part of her initiative. Also, if people balance the gender presence on the guys who are four men, nobody will give you an award. Somebody would tweet about that also. So I don't want that to happen.  I'm very excited to be here and especially from the mentors. I'm very quick to get mad at the MVP team and the entire team. Thank you so much. Let's have a look at the next winner of this year's list. And the award goes to Arun Veer Sanadekar. Mr. Mahorkar mentioned about upcoming media diets. I would just want to say that that is really motivating.  Some of the big names in the media industry. Some people who clearly we have looked up to and this is extremely motivating and a enriching experience for all of us. Congratulations once again. So let's have a look at the winner on the list who's next. I'm just a little nervous but simply not away. Thank you so much to all the jury members. The fact that there are eight of us, I believe, from CNBC, we are testing a brand new journalism that we try to do at CNBC on a daily basis. And the fact that there are eight people below 40 here also suggests that Shereed has encouraged us a lot. Has encouraged young leaders on a daily initiative to develop the domain expertise. So thank you once again. Thank you for this. And also just a word out to my parents who joined us here. Congratulations once again on the award. He has bright future journalism and of course cricket with that catch. So moving on to the next winner of this year's list. Let's have a look. This is for all the working women in India. Mehngi liars. Shame be their work. Poochy Sandil. Mehngi liars. Shame be their work. Poochy Sandil. Let's have a look at the next winner of this year's list, Divya Upad, India Airfields. From India I am the jury for this award, I think I just started out so I feel like this is my first award in journalism so it obviously motivates me to do and continue doing the work that I do. My mentor that India had to start with Mr. Roshan Samang, I think I cannot thank him enough. My mentor that India had to go and jog it, I actually used to have a loose trigger in the middle of the jolly, you know, encourage us every single day, every single day to keep doing the kind of work that we do. I think when you start out, there's always this inhibition of whether my stories will, you know, what happens if they get dropped, what will happen if I won't be able to do the kind of work that I want to do. It never ever happened in India, so I think definitely India had so much for giving me this opportunity, thank you very much. Let's have a bigger round of applause for the ladies. My first jury because this was her first award and that's an estimate to the world that she's done so let's give her a few more applause. Thank you very much, I think I worked with a fantastic team at CMD CTV. Thank you sir, I would like to thank you for being here with us and joining us on the stage. I would like you to kindly take your seat back. Ladies and gentlemen, please put your hands together once again for the young ones who have been here with us. I would like to invite on stage Mr. Vikram Chandra to kindly join us to help us take on the winners. He needs no introduction, he's been here on this very stage and of course, I'd be very happy if you could put your hands together and welcome the young audience. I would like to invite on stage Mr. Vikram Chandra to kindly join us on the stage. I would like to invite on stage Mr. Vikram Chandra to kindly join us on the stage. Please put your hands together and show our gratitude to Mr. Vikram Chandra. Alright, so with that, we'd like to move on to the list and the next winner is Mr. Chandra. It goes to Mr. Vikram Chandra. I would like to invite on stage Mr. Vikram Chandra to kindly join us on the stage. I would like to invite on stage Mr. Vikram Chandra on the stage. Now Mr. Vikram Chandra is on the stage to kindly join us on the stage. Please put your hands together once again for the young audience. I would like to invite on stage Mr. Vikram Chandra on the stage. So we will move back to the awards and let's have a look at the list. The award goes to Linda Gazzoputia Oopal Mangia. You don't have to be that quiet because the person will join back how he sees perfectly fine. That's right. So we'll move on. And I'm not there today. But thank you so much for meeting me about this week. I am very delighted and exceptionally honored. Thank you so much 15 parameters. Do remember, my colleagues are open. I added personal items and my specialty. Thank you. Once again, congratulations. And we're looking forward to seeing you again next year physically with us. Thank you so much once again for joining. Wonderful. With that, we'd like to move on to our next winner on this year's list. Let's have a look. Thank you. I just received it on behalf of a whole lot of people who work with us. Everyone that you know, Samar and Samy and this one's for all. Congratulations once again, sir. We have the winner who's joining the elite list of what you're doing this year. What goes to Anthony Nair, Open Magazine. Congratulations, Sam. Once again. And sorry in advance to all the people who have to adjust the mic because of you. Right. So we'll move on quickly to the next winner of this year's list. Let's have a look. And what goes to Neha Khalla, India. Thank you to all of you, ladies and gentlemen. There is gratitude to the jury, exchange for media. My boss is here. I owe you this. Thank you so much. Thank you for the opportunities, the trust, the latitude. And we are going to make something special with this journey together. I am very sure of that. And there is one thing especially that I want to thank him for. Thank you for allowing the arguments, the debate and the democracy in this year. I value it. Not everyone can change. Thank you for that. My sister is here. So thank you to my sister for being here in this moment with me. But I have to conclude by saying this one really is for India ahead. We're still taking our baby steps, but I'm super proud to be associated. Congratulations. I would like to thank you for joining us on this. And I request you to join us back on the seat. Ladies and gentlemen, you can put your hands together for our partners already. With this, we'll move on to our next middle of the list. Let's have a look. The award goes to Nur Anand Khalla, freelance lifestyle journalist. She has been trained to be a lawyer and actually practice that course. And then to have followed my passion of writing, of just, you know, entering the field of journalism. This is a huge deal for me. And I just have to thank E4M. But first of all, to even consider me and to give me this honor. Thank you for all my husband who tried here because he was one who encouraged me to write. You know, when I was upset with the legal career, and then of course my parents who always supported me. Michael knows too. And I meant all right here. She hadn't pushed me to nominate myself for this. I wouldn't be here. Before we get to the list that we have in front of you. I would like to congratulate each one of you who's winning the awards here. 40 under 40 and looking for the other 30. Moving on. Moving on with the list. And let's have a look at the next winner on this year's list. Who done shawty? Young journalists like us. You're reminding us that our good work and our hard work matters. And that we must not lose heart in this ever-changing and ever-confident. So thank you to the jury for considering me for that.  So it is reminding me that I must go on. And therefore my cousin today is my father for being the great person that he's been to me and for taking care of my child. Congratulations ma'am and congratulations to the father. I know it's a proud problem for you here. So let's have a round of applause for the man sitting in the back. Congratulations to you. I'd like to request Nazia not to kindly take the seat back. Thank you so much. Thank you so much. I'll request you to take the seat back as well. And I would like to invite on stage Sonya Singh editorial editor in the TV to help us. Thank you. And if I can also request the Sonya, I would like to wish you a lot of high AMC to help us. Thank you to the high people who tried to applaud on that. Let's have a look at the next winner of this year's quiz. And the award goes to Bhunima and CNNQ80. Thank you all. I'm very proud to be part of this network. I started with CNNBT and then CNN. And thank you. It's a fantastic team to work with. That's why I'm here for the whole 11 years on the same network. And thank you to my family for making me a better human being. CNN, congratulations. CNBC, what did you say? I'm sorry. I'm sorry. Let's quickly get our attention back to the screen. Let's have a look at the next winner of this year's quiz. And the award goes to BV Jopri. Congratulations. This is a quick shout out to India The Day Group. It's where I come to my teeth and hopefully on my spurs. This day is special. It's changed for me there about nine years ago. I won a young professional year here when I was under 30. I don't think since then. And you know, I've counted and I'm counting to you every year. I've been back on the stage. So with the ENB as well. But appreciate it. Thank you. Congratulations, sir. Yes. There is sometimes minor criticism on this. And you know, I think I've been married for 22 years. I'm used to criticism. But I can tell you, I'm telling you that one thing that this list got right is more women leaders than men on this list. So, you know, in the early on, out of 12 editors of mine, nine women leaders, Nadia, Meeta. Yes. Yes. Okay. So again, that is representative. Yes. Right. Okay. I want to say that 38 of her winners are here to be for one virtually and one more. So 38 of them are there. Clearly we should have started this. Earlier, but things happen when they need to happen. So thank you. I just wanted to say mention that this list has much more women than men on this list. For all the kids in the back who are pursuing journalism, this is the most important thing you want to remember. So that's what I would like to move on to the next minute on this year's list. Let's have a quick look. And the award goes to Reema Kandukar. She's a busy TV agent. She takes a village to raise a child.  And I think the support of the village still continues. So big thank you to my family, my work family, my boss, the sheen is here. But everyone, it's been a fantastic journey. And thank you for all the support and love. Congratulations once again, Mr. Mulkar. Moving on to the list that we have this year for you. The next winner is the title. So good evening everyone. So it's very tough to be here as a freelance journalist. So let me tell you this is my fourth award in a row. Firstly, I got for the best anchor of all for a freelance journalist. And I was very capable to mine part of. He was also a journalist back 20 years. And he was working with Sahara. And thank you so much for being here with me and telling people all my thoughts on this finally did it. And thank you so much everyone. Thank you so much. I would estimate to the fact that freelance anchors do not get an award. So you have done incredibly well. Moving on. I'm just trying to keep energy going in the room. Moving on to the next winner of this year's list. Let's have a picture. And the more gross group we do say. CMBC TV AT. I'm sure you're right. Thank you to the Mulkar family at CMBC TV AT. All you see on TV is just a product of many, many people who've toyed and swept over it. So this is for everyone at work. And work has become like family. I'm glad that we have all of you. And thank you everyone again. Thank you. Congratulations man. Let's quickly move on to the next winner of this year's list. Let's have a look. The award goes to Runjoon Sharma. CMBC TV AT. I've been very, very fortunate to have some amazing mentors over the years. Some of them are here today. Sudeep Mukya. Pupin Chauve. Shreem Vansya. And the support is for them. Also my parents were standing there taking pictures with me. And there's no money on guessing who the parents are because they've got the practice final. Yes, wonderful. All right, congratulations man. Let's quickly move on to the next winner of this year's list. The award goes to Shashi Gala. Pupin Chauve. Pupin Chauve. Sudeep first of all. I'm with you at Pupin Chauve. Thank you so much for considering me.  And also to India here. And the editors who have supported me. So at least two months that I've actually joined them. And for giving me the opportunity to ask. Thank you so much. Thanks Sudeep for being so kind. And if you are soliciting the winners, I'll let you take your seats back. And you can put your hands together for the ladies for joining us tonight. Thank you. And to help us out, I would like to visit the rest of the winners. I would like to invite on stage Mr. Pupin Chauve, Editor-in-Chief at NCEO at India Head News. Thank you. So now you know why I'm not a TV editor because of those three bubbles in a single line. But yeah. Sazia is me also a national source person for BJB. I would be very happy if I can invite you on the stage now. Sazia. This one's for my editors at the back. My name is Rabin. I've been called Rabinath Pines in my life. I understand nothing. Okay. So I'll try and collect this once again. Pupin Chauve, thank you so much. Shanzhi and Meiji for Shukri Akka for joining us on the stage. Okay. With this, we'd like to move on to unveil the next winners of the series. Yes, let's have a look. The award goes to Alusey and the TV Projects. Okay. Everyone with specs actually gets confused with the other person. I get so many, it's going to be one of my local gangers with people who are doing specs. So yeah, I just have to know. We're getting the right one for you. And in the meantime, we're getting the right one. I do a lot of short videos. So I'll keep it quick. Thank you for this. And huge shout out to any TV for the kind of journalism that I do. Thank you. So apparently it's obvious that these two guys were confused with each other. Okay sir, thank you so much for joining in. Let's have a look at our next winner this year. And the award goes to If you stop clapping in between, somebody has to run on the stage. So please not forget. Thank you. Thank you for him. And of course I'd like to thank my mentors who are sitting right there. And everybody there. But I think as young journalists, we many times forget how much we learn from our peers. So for that, I would like to thank my other teammates from NTTB who are here. I've been going to say, this is a study in cultivating sources and doing your due diligence. That can actually follow the story to the very end as much as possible pushing and pushing hard. Arun is an energy in himself. I don't know how he packages the most. Serious stories in a very palatable way for every audience. Parmeshwar Baba who's here who is somebody you can study the grinds from. Thank you all of you for teaching me what journalism is supposed to be and what I should be doing. Thank you. With that, we'd like to move on to our next winner this year. Let's have a look. And the award goes to Arvind Gurusekar. Also all my editors and my colleagues here. Also very importantly, my sources.  Thank you. Sorry, we took a lot of time to identify without the glasses. You are not. So congratulations. Thank you so much by that. Let's meet again in the next winner of this year's list. Here we go. And the award goes to Parmeshwar Baba. I'm not lowering the bar as my company is the testament. Just to my legendary doctorage, right then I went to us. Sonia Nadeem, Malika Veni, who's here at the moment. Basu, Chaitan, Anna Ma'am, Zaitova Rockstar, Dave Narasitich, my family, my grandparents, Prashar, my colleagues. There's just so many people on the thank you list, but just to practicing earnest journalism and just making a consistent effort to give no oxygen to heat whatsoever. What is that? Happy birthday. That's a birthday. Congratulations. Let's make a very happy birthday. I'm bringing an award on your birthday back to when you were turning 14. That's amazing. Congratulations once again. Let's really have a look at the next winner of this year's list. Basu, Ratnadeem, Chaudhary, and GTV. We are speaking in public so I can become a television journalist. We shout out to all my editors in NETV, my colleagues. My excellent team back in the Kohati Bureau of NETV, without them, some of my stories would have been possible and my family, my friends, and I think I'm both from India's very rich and I'm both on stories of our last mine stories. So it would not have been possible without my first editor, Mr. Pradyum Thakarnwan in Shudong and his magazine, The Noctis Today. A big thanks to you. Congratulations. Congratulations on the award and of course, overcoming the fear of public speaking that's amazing, sir. Kuros to you. Let's quickly move on to invite the next winner. But before we do that, I would like to thank, of course, Prinder sir, thank you so much for being here with us. I'll let you get back to your seats and join us for the presentation from us. You can put your answer better than that. I know you can. Fantastic. All right. I'd also like to take this opportunity to welcome on the stage Mr. Anurag for the National Scopes for the Samajwadi Party who will be joining us now on the stage. This will have the government in five places there. If you do not upload properly, then you might have to do the work. Congratulations. Jenny Walson, Jen, Group Editor, entity TV as well. I would like to invite on stage, Sir, let me help you in doing this next bit. People, please keep both your hands up like that. Please do. With one finger, start tapping on this on the other hand. Just one finger. That's it. Just one. Just two. Now two. Now do it with three. I know you can do it with four. And now you put your palms together. Now that's the flow that I want for the rest of the work. Can you do that? I can do that. Also, can I please request, Mrs. Nidhi Rastan from entity TV to kindly join us on the stage. I am flying there on the roof. So if I make any mistakes, you please forgive me for this, right? Nidhi, thank you. And all of you, if you can put your hands together. I think you're set for the next award. Let's meet up. Who is Nidhi? Shashank Hara. That is your express online media. Thank you very much. And also, big thank you to Indian Express for nominating me. And also for really believing and taking seriously auditions and podcasts. For somebody who loves podcasts, who loves audio as a medium, create videos to work at. So thank you to Indian Express. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you, sir. Let's take a look at the winner who's joining the next 40 and a 40 this year. The award goes to Sherry and Zubair. Time's up. I completed my six years in Time's now and seven years in journalism all together. And I still remember my first assignment was at the Tech's Club and I was standing in awe of Mr. Srinivasan Jain at that point. I'm a journalist. Thank you, sir. Congratulations. Let's have a look at the next winner. Let's see her. The host is Somyan Saxena. Of course, I only want to see the list on Sunday. I have no imprint, but I must tell you Somyan is there and that's why I don't know most of you personally. But I want to say that why this award was for journalism to encourage diversity across the newsroom. They have You know, there are people who enable journalists to be able to do the job they do. Swami does a similar job. So I just wanted to mention that, that, you know, somebody in the day set, journalists who are on the back end are also very important. So Swami has this, you represent the whole cloth of people who really help all the journalists to go to work on what they do. Please give Swami a big round of applause. Thank you, Ms. Kalipudi and my mentors who are here to start. Thank you, thank you so much. Congratulations. Let's have a look at the next winner of this year. And the award goes to Surya Sharan. It's an absolute honour to receive the award here in front of so many journalistic greats.  All my leaders and mentors told me to, you know, just go for it and punch away above my weight. And I did that. I continue to do that. And thank you so much to everyone here. Thank you, Shireen, for always leading from the front and making sure we do our best whether we like it or not. Thanks a lot. Thank you, everyone. Let's have a look at the next winner this year at E4M English Journal, 40 years ago. And the award goes to Swastika Das. See you then. I just love it how we were finding the videos on this first time with the family data. Fantastic. That says more years about the kind of book that you have together, amazing. And frankly, so you are the winner this year for E4M. We have few more winners to go to. Let's quickly have a look at the next winner. Very much. I know it's a great honour. Day is also perfect. I celebrate my 13th anniversary. My husband is right here. He said, what better way to celebrate it. Thank you very much. I am a big thank you to the jury and everyone in my work and family. I think all of them have played such a good role that I'm here to thank you so much on their behalf. Thank you very much. Ma'am, congratulations and sir. Wow, congratulations. Let's quickly have a look at the next winner of this year's list. Here we go. Sadly, the next winner is not with us. She's joining us virtually is what I wanted to say that long time in for us. To make a change for media and the jury for giving me a chance to be on the list. And big, big thank you to my entire team for all their support and congratulations to everyone. I mean, I'm sure you can't see it, but I can see. Look at the smile on that man's face right now. The radiant face. And that's it. Well done. Alright, moving on to our next winner this year. Let's quickly have a look. And the award goes to Varun Namya. I do it too. Seventeen years ago when I was studying journalism in Pune. There was a speech by Steve Jobs that became very popular. That you can connect the dots in your life only looking backwards. Not forwards. You can never, you know, whatever thing is going to happen may not happen. But in retrospect, if you look behind, you know that this is the cause and this became the effect. 2005, I was punching emails on my flat. There was a certain editor named Dr. Anurag Patra from a restaurant which is on Ferguson College Road in Pune. Can I punch about 8-10 names to you? That the impact distribution network needs to be improved because I had to travel all the way to NG Road to pick up my copy of Impact Taxi, which became my peak into the daily media. What were the editors doing, who was joining there? And I used to buy that every fortnight as it was then. And I was very happy because the editor responded. And now I know of course Dr. Patra responds to emails. But those days, having an editor respond was a big thing. And of course I kept on following the magazine which became my peak into tell me finally I came here and started to work. So that is why I think, you know, things have a way of shaping up. And this is 17 years later. Of course I got to know him only six or seven years ago because I didn't even know each other. And I always used to tell him that one day I may win one of the awards that you organized taken seven years. But I would like to thank you. That year in India, in fact, a lot of people that I see here are all the interviews when I entered the scene Bombay. I remember taking a transfer from one of the reporters because I had managed to misplace one of those small cassettes that you used to have to record. Sukumar's comments on Ornithology. So I mean all the bird censories which I never knew I got to know through his Twitter account. And of course, Mr. Uday Mahorkar, all the articles in India today because my father used to buy India today. Since I was a kid, so all articles there. So in a sense, when I come here, everything converges. And that's why I go back to the commencement speech of Steve Jobs. You know, you get the points only when you look backwards. Before I end, I started the journey of legally speaking about six years ago. I can't help but thank the late Sri Arun Hely who allowed me to do his biography. Of course, he couldn't live to see Mukul Rohan, the managing partner and company. Justice Arjan Kumar, Sikri, Rajeev Rootra, Justice Surya Khan, Justice Mukul, all these people here. We have guided and helped the journey and that's how this work has been possible. Thank you all very much. Mr. Nagya, the most serious journalist I know with the most non-serious journalist. Amazing, congratulations. This is what a baby is, that's amazing. Let's quickly have a look at the next winner on this year's list. Who goes to MC Japania? Say it, we seek to be entertained. Needless to say, it's very helpful. All my previous organizations, HTE, Express, The Pioneer and not to forget my family. My husband was also a fellow journalist. We both started together at The Pioneer. And yes, this is a special award, especially for my late parents, who might have lost 11 months back. So, for that one. When there's a principle, the energy is neither destroyed nor created, it just transcends. And I'm absolutely sure wherever they are, they're looking at you right now. They're absolutely sure. Let's have a look at the next winner of this list. Who goes to Uday Pratap Singh? Thank you, Surya. I think it's program class. But no, I've already spoken earlier in the morning, so I won't take too much time. Thank you to Exchange for Media and the Churi. These are individuals from the industry who I've grown up watching. So to have them select me is a big moment. And thank you to my mentors, the leadership at News X and of course the previous organizations I've worked with. And thank you all once again very much. They say journalism is a thankless job. That's alright, we still do it, but once in a while it's good to get thanks. So thank you, E4M. Alright, we're down to the last winner of this year's E4M English Journalism 40 under 40. Look at the excitement on the stage and the other side. Let's have a quick look on the winner who's going in. Who goes to Uday Sophie? Good evening everyone.  Secondly, to all the editors that I've worked with since I started out as a trainee reporter at ST. I'm working at India Heard. A big thank you to my parents for back in Kashmir. And this award is for all the Kashmiri journalists who have been struggling there. You know, reporting despite all the arrows being thrown at them. This is for all the employees. Alright, so that brings us to the end of the winners that we have this year for E4M English Journalism 40 under 40 inaugural edition. And we could not be happier with the list that the jury has come up with. So we congratulations to each one of you once again. And as it goes, if you did not make it this year, it only says that you need to work harder and you are on the right path because that's the next step to go. So congratulations to the ones that did not make it, congratulations to the ones that did make it. I would like to request all the winners to kindly join us back on the stage for a group photograph so that we can please this moment in time for you all.  Okay, so we can invite them in, that's not a problem. Let's get all of you on the stage and while you're making your way up here. Okay, let's get you all real quick up on this guy. As you know, we have been short in time. That's why we've been running through this show all day long. So we'll take all the winners on the stage in a single group photograph so that this is a moment to remember. I have a applause for our MC today. If you are looking for an anchor who makes a lot of mistakes and it's funny as hell, I'm the guy for you. Thank you so much. All right, let's get all of the winners on this. And please, please remember the cameraman is your mother-in-law for today. Listen to whatever he says. Okay, and we'll try to stand up that order. So 40 people, it's a little difficult to put all of you in a single place. But some of you will have to readjust your aligning and completion according to the cameras also. Please do so. Thank you so much. While I'm here, I would also like to thank all our partners once again for making this possible. It was not possible without all of you. But especially mentioned goes out to Bobble AI. You have been instrumental and of course the first edition. So we are really, really thankful to you. A bit about Bobble AI, AI Power Keyboard Application from India. That has challenged the blockchain of global giants like Google, Microsoft, and of course, have been rated as an engaging fun keyboard application with 65 million users globally. This is an absolute indication of where the brand is going to be. Some amazing things are coming up from the brand. Of course, you need to look out for it. Right now we have 30 plus ending languages including Hindi. Bangla, Malayalam, Marathi. Bobble AI is revolutionizing the conversations over smartphones. So it's highly innovative and creative content library that makes conversations more extensive, sticky and engaging. So thank you so much to Bobble AI. You're amazing. And we're really, really proud of being part of your work. What we are facing now is soil extinction in both countries. All right. On behalf of Exchange for Media, we'd like to thank all of you for joining us here. And I would like to invite the man behind the curtain for making this possible, Mr. Rohil Amin. Let's quickly get you up here with a closing note. And yeah, Rohil, over to you. Thank you, everyone. I really thank Dr. Patra for his vision. We have started the really first year and look who only got into the room. We don't get all the journalists together, but we will manage to get it. Thank you, everyone, for joining us today. And we look forward on the 28th, we have awards. And on the 30th, we have the news next content in the day and awards in the night. Please do come. See you there. Thank you again. In most countries, more than 50% of the top soil is already gone. Every responsible scientist in the world is clearly saying by 2045, he is refusing 40% less food.


Namaskar. Thank you so much. I have been, well, I grew up an atheist.  And then I had a spontaneous spiritual awakening a couple of years ago. And ever since then, it's really felt like I've been living a like a double life. And that's really true of pretty much every dimension of my life. Friends, family, co-workers wouldn't understand what I'm going through. And so it's been kind of a lonely journey. There's been a lot of anxiety, a lot of depression that I've been dealing with. I felt very withdrawn from my day to day. I'm a business owner, it's been really hard for me to find the motivation to, you know, get up and keep going in and going through the motions. And I'm just really struggling with how do I sort of bring these two worlds together and, you know, find a place of joy and happiness again, and know that I'm engaging with the world and the way that the world needs me to, but also in a way that makes me feel happy and whole. You know, in the beginning of this process of a spiritual awakening, and it can be different for different people, some people may call just seeing something unusual, a spiritual awakening, others may actually have the experience of soul or source. Another may have an enlightenment experience. With each person, it's different. And what they call a spiritual experience is different. What definitely, definitely will help is not to believe that the people around you are not capable of understanding what's happening. Sometimes you would be surprised how many people in the world actually are open to these ideas. It's just that when one person is afraid of speaking about their experience or even just being relaxed about it and normal about it. The other will not know about it, but will have probably also had a similar experience or be open to it conceptually. So your first step as far as the people around you is not to trumpet your experience, but to be clear about it, to stand with yourself. If you've seen a green moon on Thursday morning, then you've seen a green moon. And if another hasn't seen it, it doesn't mean that the moon isn't green. It's green for you and you better stand up for that. Because the more you stand up for your spiritual experiences, the more those experiences will support you. And the more you believe that you have to protect yourself from everyone else, the less you'll have support from those very experiences that actually are strengthening you. You don't have to trumpet them around. That's not what I'm saying. But if you've had an experience where let's say you've suddenly felt oneness with everyone and everything, you may believe that no one else would understand, but they may be able to accept that your moon is green. People are more accepting and more wide and tender hearted than one normally wants to believe. I would not go and trumpet it to everyone, but I would not run away from the experience. And I would stand for it and live with it and be clear about it with everyone around. Take it or leave it. If they have respect for you and they understand it, then they will be there. Even if they don't agree that the moon is green, at least you can agree that there is a moon and that's already something. You can't give in there. You have to stand straight with what you've experienced. I mean, unless you start saying, I saw little goblins running around in the garden honey and you know, we need to get a net to catch them. Then we're talking something else. I don't believe that that's where you're coming from. You know, it's non-negotiable. As far as not having the motivation to do business, that's because you're running away from the experience in its social context. Again, you don't have to go to all your employees and tell them that they now have an enlightened being as their boss. That's not what it's about. But if you stand strong with your experience, you will be able to have the joy of running that business. The point is, what do you do with the business? Because you're running a business because you have to put food on the table and maybe four wheels on the road and then on top of that. What do you do with that on top of that? What do you use your money for? How do you actually bring that energy into the world to support the world? That is what will strengthen you. The more you invest in your spiritual path and in your spiritual journey, in your case because you're not doing social service, you've come on a spiritual path, some people do that in the word of social service. We call it Samajseva and spiritual service is Adhyatmikseva.  All of that goes into that. And then the business makes sense. You see no sense in it because of what you're doing. You're not standing with your experience. You're not expressing it with strength. That has to develop. Don't be afraid of anyone. Why should you be? I mean, if someone doesn't understand you, then they have to go and understand someone else. You have to be very tough about that. It's, as I said, non-negotiable. And then you'll see very soon, once you have clarity with the people around you, once you have decided what you do with your energy, with your money, with your body, with your emotions, if you invest it in the right direction, you're just going to be a very joyous being. That's what it is about. You don't want to be this unhappy person all the time. But it won't change if you don't make a very, very strong decision. Your experiences are not madness. You don't look mad to me. You look quite safe, actually. And it's all right to stand up for what you believe in, what you experience. And maybe the people around you would be interested to hear it, you know? Maybe it sort of strikes a chord in them and awakens something in them. I'm not talking about proselytizing and preaching, but just sharing without fear. Nodding is not enough. You also have to do it. Thank you. That's really helpful. I appreciate it. It sounds like I need to figure out how to embody my truths in a way that works for me, but is not, like you said, not trumpeting anything, but is also coming from a place of strength than not being afraid, not having to walk away from an environment because I don't want to rock the boat. If you don't rock the boat, life will rock that boat. And when life rocks the boat, then you have a problem. So it's better that you take that boat in hand and rock it around a little bit and test the waters. Thank you. Thank you.


that you need to take a look at.  So we were doing some training with autonomous dogs. What this training will do eventually is it will free up defenders to do defender things, rather than going and looking at a computer screen or relaying things via comms. Hopefully what we're trying to do is to get AI systems to take some of the workload off of us so that what we're doing is only having guns in the fight. Some of the capabilities of the RoboDog are AI detection. So the RoboDog can go out and via its thermal camera or its regular red, green, and blue cameras, it could pick out targets for us and say, hey, this is something you might want to check out. This is something that you need to take a look at.