Welcome to another episode of the nonprofit show, we are delighted that you are here today, we're going to talk about conflicted about COI policies. There's a lot of things to unravel and talk about this. I got to tell you Jackie when I'm out and about with boards. These, this is one of the hot topics that comes up. So I can't wait to hear what you have to say and how to get a straight on this whole. I don't want to say mystery, but it can be kind of mysterious. If we haven't met before I'm Julia Patrick CEO of the American nonprofit Academy. My cohort, the nonprofit nerd is actually working with another nonprofit, I think in Park City, Utah today, so, but she'll be back with us tomorrow. I want to make sure we thank all of our presenting sponsors without you, we would not be here we want to thank bloom around the American nonprofit Academy, your part time controller, the nonprofit nerd fundraising Academy, staffing boutique nonprofit thought leader and the nonprofit Atlas. Okay Jackie, we are always loving it when we get a CPA that comes on that can help us through all of these different things. And so welcome to another episode of the nonprofit show. Thank you. I'm excited to talk about this subject. Well, we are thrilled to have you, because like I mentioned when we were just getting started. You know, this is a policy and a statement that has a lot of depth to it. But you mentioned to me, you had the greatest line in the green room chatter you said, I think in 150 years of accounting practice, you haven't had to deal with this too much. But when you do. It's a doozy. Absolutely. Yes, I've had to deal with it at one time in 150 years. And yes, it was very, very difficult when, when we did deal with it. Well, let's get into this because I'm really interested to know what does COI stand for, and why is it a big deal. I love this policy so COI stands for conflict of interest policy. And really what that means is that you have board members you have key employees in any organization, not just nonprofit organizations that are in positions to influence decisions. And those might be decisions about who to do business with who to give a contract to etc. Board members again across the board, not unique to nonprofits, they have a fiduciary responsibility. And one of the meanings of fiduciary responsibility is that they have a responsibility to do what's best for the organization. So I kind of like to compare it to parents guardians and minor children, right. Your parents and your guardians have a responsibility to do what's in the best interest of the minor children. And in this case, an organization whether profit or nonprofit is analogous to that those minor children and board members have to do what's right by the children in my example. I love that part of what that means is that they have to be cautious about doing business with people whether board or key employees who are in a position to leverage decision making. They have to be very, very cautious about that. Because you don't want to get into a situation where an organization decides to use a I'm going to use the word related party as a vendor, and pay them double the fair market value for a service. That is not in the best interest of the organization. So that's essentially what a conflict of interest policy is designed to do. So, this is an actual, if you will, like a statement that you present to the board right and is it, is it technically a part of the bylaws, or is it just a policy that's associated with the bylaws. It's a policy outside of the bylaws. Okay, and so one of the areas that people in the nonprofit community get confused is when you look at this up there's conflicting literature about out there about whether it's a federal law, or what does it do. According to the IRS, it is recommended. So all nonprofits have to fill out a tax return just like I do just like you do Julia, and that's called a 990 tax return, and essentially the 990 is just informational in nature. It's really kind of unravel the 990. It's a way to protect donors, because the way to protect donors is through transparency. The more transparent the organization is, the more donors can see what's going on with their money. And the 990 is designed to do that. And it does ask a question. Do you have a conflict of interest policy? That doesn't mean you have to have one. It means it's highly recommended that you do have one. And then the 990 asks how that is executed. So in the best case situation, the 990 policy is already drawn up, possibly by a lawyer. And as board members join, they are given the conflict of interest policy to read, to agree to, to sign, and to uphold. Okay, so let's dig into this because what I'm hearing from you, which is somewhat jarring in one way in that it's like this is asked for the 990s and the IRS is asking us this and recommending we have this. But they're not all the same, right? I mean, it's, it's, it can be pretty varied. The conflict of interest policy can be varied. However, there are some consistent elements within each policy. And I can talk about those consistent elements, but I do kind of want to touch back to the IRS and the federal issues. Some states do have a state law that require a nine, I'm sorry, conflict of interest. So you, although the feds don't, they recommend it, some state laws do require it. In fact, New York state has one of the most stringent laws on this. So anybody who's in, you know, in a state, you'll want to look up your state laws and see if they have laws about a conflict of interest policy. Wow. And just to, just to that point. So I did not realize that I know that there are different things from state to state but on the conflict of interest. Thank you for educating me on that because I did not realize that.  Yes, they should. Okay, so that's, that's the chain for figuring out that, that information.  So, a conflict of interest policy has a few main points no matter what organization writes it up a lot of a few main points. Okay, so the, the beginning part is who does this effect. And typically it affects board members and key employees who have leverage over decision making capabilities. That's who that affects. And secondly, it might talk about what a conflict of interest policy is intended to cover and typically that's going to be intended to cover a transaction. Okay, most normally so if the nonprofit is going to be writing a check to somebody is that check a board member or a key employee. Okay, and it's important to note that it doesn't just cover board members and key employees. It also covers their family members as well. Okay, I did not know that. Yes, so if I'm on a board and my son has a business and my son's business is web design. I could influence that board or that comp that organization to hire my son's web design business. And the organization and the board needs to make sure that if my son's web design business is hired. He's not overcharging the organization. Right. So the conflict of interest policy in that example would include my son, my parents, my grandparents, even my business partner, if I have business partners, but affect them as well. So it's, you kind of have to interpret it more broad brush if I'm on the board. Who do I have influence over in mice in my life, and anybody that I have influence over would be covered by this conflict of interest policy. Okay, wow. I really appreciate you expanding that circle. Because when you think about who's on boards, you know, most, most board members are from, you know, corporate America, or they have their own businesses, and so they generally run in circles with other people like that that are entrepreneurs, or, you know, business owners, or from a larger, you know, American corporation so fascinating to hear you talk about that. I've got a couple questions so one of them is, you mentioned key leadership. So that COI policy, it's going to be the same pot like literally the same document. Yes. So, so you do one document and it's going to cover that. And then I've served on boards where the COI policy is part of like the January meeting where there might be other policies such as HIPAA, or, you know, disclosures, activity disclosures, and they all kind of are reassigned or re-executed. Is that what your thoughts are? Is this like an every year thing, or how do you feel like the stewardship of that should go? That is the best practice, and that's what I would recommend. Unfortunately, not all nonprofits do that, but it absolutely is best practice because your board members are changing over some time, or turning over every year. And so certainly new board members should be required to do this. But it's also a nice opportunity to say, hey, let's talk about this with the whole board, refresh everybody's memories, have everybody sign this document again as well. I was, years ago I was in a board meeting and we were building a new part of the campus, and the CEO was talking about a patio, a large, like a public meeting space that was going to be used as part of this campus. And she said, and we're going to have this, we're going to have that. And she showed us the drawings, and she's like, we're really excited because this brickwork is going to be done, and it's a really interesting brick. It's coming from XYZ Company. And one of the board members was like, oh, wow, that's my husband's company. And then it was like, okay, stop. I mean, it was really an interesting thing because if the board met, if the CEO hadn't kind of walked us through, we would have just looked at it as a nice thing. And it was over $10,000. And so that board member had to, you know, excuse yourself from the meeting for that period of time. And it was a really interesting lesson because I think we were all just, it was kind of like an off the cuff thing. And to your point, maybe these come up more than we realize or we just don't really recognize when it's appropriate to enact the policy. Well, and I think another really good idea. When I was chief financial officers, controllers of various nonprofits in my past, I always went to the board meetings. Yeah, and that was really a productive thing to do because I got to know each board member, their businesses, who they were affiliated with. So when transactions would come across my desk, I would know whether this was something that came under the umbrella of the conflict of interest policy or whether it was fine because I knew those board members. And some transactions, you know, if they're minimal amounts of money, they don't really fall under this conflict of interest policy. Other transactions also are excluded from the policy such as most nonprofit boards have a banker on the board. So if that nonprofit has credit cards through that bank, or maybe has a loan through that bank. In all likelihood, that's not a conflict of interest because that individual banker on the board is not getting any gain off of that normal transaction in the course of their business so that wouldn't be covered. Now you gave us a little bit of an inside story scoop and I hope you feel comfortable in sharing this, but it involved in investment conflict in industry. Could you, could you share that with us. I would love to share that story. So best practices are and I will get into that story but best practices are when you have a board member or a key employee who's recommending that the entity do business with what I'll call a related party. That should be a discussion ahead of time. We've got a client right now who's in that situation. It's a lease agreement. Nothing has been signed yet. And at the next board meeting, he's going to go before the board and say, hey, there is this lease agreement the nonprofits interested in entering in with my company. Here are the terms. Here's the fair market value, etc. This is the best practice. And in this particular situation, once he presents his facts for the lease agreement, he will then step out of the room. And excuse himself from voting. And then the rest of the board will discuss it and make a decision about whether to go through with the lease agreement or not. And all of this will be documented in excruciating detail in the minutes of that board meeting. So that's the correct way to do it. Okay, everything's on the up and up so a conflict of interest doesn't mean that you can't do business with a related party. It just means that there needs to be oversight to make sure it's conducted in an arms length manner at the fair market value. So it's really advising us on the process and not removing us from the process but saying, you know, I love that you just said that the arms length transaction rule and yeah understanding. Okay. And in this in that example and I'll give you the example of it going the other way but in this example this best practice example, the board meeting hasn't happened yet. I've seen the lease agreement. My opinion could be wrong, you know this is a fair market value transaction the board will approve this and the entity will do business with this board member. That's fine, because it's done in a way that the board member is not influencing the decision he's presenting the facts and excusing himself. So that's the right way to handle this. Now I'll tell you the wrong way to handle this. So what are the entities that I used to work for you know 100, 100 years ago out of my 150 year career. The board members were because like I said I would go to the board meetings and I knew what their businesses were. So this particular board member who I'm just going to call Joe came into my office with an investment agreement and he wanted me to sign the investment agreement. And it was he was on the board he was an investment advisor. I'm a CPA, I don't know, you know much about investments I'm not qualified to talk about investments I can talk about downing in Texas all day long, but not investments. But I knew enough about this particular investment to know. This is a bad investment. And it's one of those investments that really lines the pockets of the broker and not the entity in this case. Joe wasn't right, and the proper procedure hadn't been followed Joe came directly to me Joe didn't go to the board. There was no discussion, and Joe was somewhat of a bully, and was basically telling me he knew how the board would want this handled and this is the way that they wanted it handled. And I just needed to sign off on the investment agreement. And I wouldn't, I wouldn't do it. So, typically boards have investment committees or finance committees that handle these kinds of things. And, you know it was not my place to be in the middle of this dispute because this should have been a board to board dispute not a board to CFO dispute. And that was the value of me having attended these board meetings I knew who Joe was I knew what Joe did. And when he was putting a contract under my nose to sign, I was not signing it. And so it ended up having to go to the board, the, in our case we did have an investment committee. They were called the head of that committee and they got involved and they dealt with Joe and you know it can get pretty ugly when it's not handled correctly because these people were had been on boards together for a long, long time. They were buddy buddies, they knew each other. Joe was not backing down and thankfully I wasn't in those meetings but they got pretty contentious. Now, let's talk about that because that's a, I love your two examples. I think there's not a person in this country that can see or insert themselves, if you will, into that one of those positions. It seems to me that a lot of us aren't going to be able just to rattle off what that policy looks like. So could you walk us through that I mean would that be the sort of thing that the board chair pulls up the board liaison I mean, I mean how do we, how do we know when it's time to use it and how do we go through this. I always like to fly what I call 50,000 feet. And although the policy itself might be detailed. I think any reasonable person can pull out of the details and look at the intent of the policy, and the intent of the policy is that no one with leverage over decision making should be able to financially benefit from a transaction or unreasonably financially benefit from a transaction between an entity and its related party related parties meaning key employees board members family all of those definite or people that we talked about before. So if you just kind of get out of the weeds and think all this is intended to do is make sure that related parties don't benefit unreasonably, and that protects the donors. So, and or the grantors as well if organizations have branches. So if we go back to the example where it's being done correctly, assuming the board approves this lease transaction. It's, it's protecting the donors in that if the board said no no no let's go somewhere else. They're still going to have to lease property, and they're going to pay about the same amount they paid from this board member. So, in that case it's, it's fine. It's just the bad example where the, you know the entity could have put this money and did in a much better investment that would have yield them higher returns than what was being suggested. I think you just said something really magical there and I think it just changed my lens dramatically and that was for the protection of the donor. Absolutely. All the protection. Yeah, I like that you. I framed it that way Jackie because, you know, so many CPAs have told me and I think this is really wise, wise commentary and that, you know, look at your 990 as a glorified brochure, so that any, you know, don't look at it as like a, I got to do this for the IRS because that's a bad mindset. But if you can look forward and say, this is where donors come and they're going to learn about your organization, and it's going to give them confidence, or it's going to help them make a decision. To me that changed my mind and made the 990 as a real benefit. But I love this concept of the COI ultimately being a protection for that donor base and I think that's super cool. I've never heard anyone frame it like this is so good for you. Again, if you kind of to your point you even look at the 990, everything is to protect the donor. And we've seen some bad examples about in the last 20 years where we've heard of nonprofits who have spent way too many of the donor dollars on the CEO salary, rather than the organization. That's what these policies are designed to stop. And yes, the 990 is the lens and the microscope and the transparency, but I like to kind of compare all this stuff to weight loss. You know, if people want to lose weight, they eat healthy and if they focus on eating healthy. Oh, by the way, they'll lose weight as almost as a byproduct. And so these types of policies, the COI policy being a perfect example of when you should do it because it's the right thing to do. And if you're concerned about protecting the donors and you keep that as your goal. Yes, your mission is whatever your nonprofit is in business to do to feed homeless people to help to help people without shelter, whatever your mission is. Yes, yes, yes. That's number one. But right up there with number one is protecting your donor. Yeah. And these are the policies that help do that. Yeah. Well, this is great. I mean, I really appreciate this. I appreciate your wisdom. I appreciate your cadence of, you know, explaining how this fits into the ecosystem of management stewardship and ultimately donor protection and we know, we know that when we protect our donors, we create longer term relationships. Absolutely. We keep them. I mean, they help march through whatever the processes are we need in order to achieve our mission vision and value so I love that you framed this that way. You know, it's so funny, Jackie, with the board work that I do and the organizations that I talk with even here on the nonprofit show. I always call this one of the kiss and cry moments. A lot of times board members will be like, what the what, you know, freaked out that they haven't seen this policy that it is a part of the fiduciary side of their, their voting that you know they're like well what is it where is it how you know it gets. It's so cumbersome and that turns into fear. That's what I see. You know, I see it as one of those things where people just kind of get unglued, and then they focus in on this and not take that that bigger look at how the ecosystem works. That's why it's so important to pull yourself out of the specific details and just look at the intent. I want to protect the donor. What can I do to do that. Oh, you need me to sign this to protect the donor we need a conflict of interest policy. Okay, let's do it. I love it. I love it. Well, Jackie you have been an absolute marvel I have enjoyed talking with you today. Here's Jackie's information. Jackie is a client services manager or chasing in company, not chasing in company only works for nonprofits right. Do have a few for profit but our but most of our client basis nonprofit we're specialists in that area. It's awesome because as we all know, it's not the same and there's like little weird things. Absolutely. And so, I love that your organization is dialed into this, and that you can help nonprofits really understand and protect themselves and their donors and really navigate this. Because, you know, it's harsh, but no money, no mission, I mean we've got to have our hands wrapped around these concepts, and so we're delighted that you would come on today, and share with us, your amazing knowledge. Check out Jackie, and you can reach her through chasing in company.com. So, you know, Jared will be back here tomorrow. I think tomorrow is going to be a really interesting day. We have a lead nonprofit expert coming to us from Australia, and that poor woman has to join us at 115 in the morning her time. It looks like tomorrow, but she's going to talk to us in Jackie this will be interesting for you. She's going to be talking to us about what the donor kind of sentiment and donor culture is in Australia. And so we thought it would be kind of an interesting conversation to have we get to do this once in a while and so join us for that tomorrow. If you want to learn more about some of the other things that we've been talking about we're marching towards our first episode. You can get ahold of us of previous shows on Roku YouTube, Amazon Fire TV, and Vimeo we have a lot of information out there. Again, we want to thank all of our presenting sponsors without them, we would not be here, having these remarkable conversations like we've had with Jackie Muboff on today. Blue meringue American nonprofit Academy your part time controller the nonprofit nerd fundraising Academy staffing boutique nonprofit thought leaders and nonprofit atlas thank you for being a part of this journey as we go forward. Okay Jackie. I'm super excited about what we talked about today. I'm going to be more vigilant about how I've reviewed the COI policies, when I've reviewed them and not wait. Exactly. I mean, it's got to be something we're doing. Yes, preferably annually. Every year and it's like one of those January things, or in the case of you mentioned, when you're onboarding a new member, I mean it's super super important. Well hey everybody, we like to end every episode with this message. Stay well. So you can do well. We'll see you back here tomorrow everyone.


Welcome to the wide world of eSports, the show devoted to all things eSports. I'm your host, Katharine Noor. Today our topic is Gamathon, eSports Giving Back. My guest is Dexter Carr Jr., the CEO of Game for Good. Welcome Dexter. Hi, it's wonderful to be back. All right, you actually have probably been my guest more times than anyone else. This is your third time and I'm really excited to catch up with you. Definitely, definitely. So what's the latest Dexter? Yeah, so we've been making a lot of changes. The first and foremost, I remember the previous times we were on your show, the company was named G Haven eSports, but we decided to rebrand to Game for Good. Do you feel it better? The name this A was Catcher 1, but 2, it better defined what our mission was, to summarize it, which was to basically demonstrate the value of gaming beyond entertainment. What it looks like to actually game for good and game with a purpose. That's kind of where we got the idea from. So what is the driving force behind Game for Good? Why do you game for a purpose? It kind of started from just my personal background. Video gaming has been more than just a space for the killing time or getting good out of the video game. It's given me so much more and it's helped me create friendships, it's helped me just practice different skills and from there, I've created so many different bonds over the years and a lot of people that realize that at its core gaming isn't about not just having fun, but about building a community. And once we see a lot of content creators, the biggest thing they focus on is building that community. How do you connect with other people from a distance? Even when we aren't able to reach out to each other due to a pandemic or distance, we're allowed to be able to come and contribute to each other and build those lifelong friendships. So what is Game of Thon? Yeah, so it's very similar to the idea of what a charity stream is and also the best analogy would be kind of like a walkathon, where how different walkathons are fundraising, where you know, based on how far you walk, you know, people raise money or don't even put money toward that. What difference is a Game of Thon is more for video gaming, so it's not how far you walk, but how long you play. And since we're gaming anyway, we might as well put those hours in some use so no one could ever say again, hey, you're wasting your time playing video games, nope, I'm gaming for a purpose, haha. That's fantastic. I mean, when you think about some famous walk, like March of Dimes, they have a walk every every March and to raise money. And so I think that there's a lot of similarities, that's kind of a fantastic way to do that. And so how does it work? Like how how can people become involved and and how can charities become involved and how can individuals become involved? Yeah, of course. So that's actually also one of the new things that we're doing. So recently, we've done multiple fundraising events, kind of testing out this ideology of how it works, of how to be able to use the hours gamer's game to end a couple of that with donors to raise money. And we have multiple successes. We've done five of them before. And we're actually building a full platform called Game for Good, which allows you to, when you create an account, you're able to connect your gamer profiles on all your favorite gaming platforms that you play on to it. And then we're able to use the data of how long you play to generate, to push that engine and coupling that with different donors and sponsors on the platform to value that engagement with you to be able to raise money for funds for different causes. So does the gamer get to pick the cause? Yes, they do. We have some in the past with MEPs. We had at most three at one time, we were kind of just testing out the idea for the full platform. We'll be able to have multiple charities and fundraisers on our platform so the game could choose whatever fundraisers they want to game towards. And on top of that, it doesn't matter what game you play because the value added is from gaming of itself. Okay, so you can, so if you're a Fortnite player, CSCO player, Valorant player, whichever, you can use the platform, is that right? Yeah, yeah. And the best thing is you don't have to be a streamer. You don't have to do charity streams just to engage with this platform. You've taken that mindset, you've taken that and you've turned it into something that could be used by the everyday gamer. So if you don't want to put your face on the screen and stream, you don't have to.  And then where does the money come from? Yeah, so the money comes from our sponsors. We take a portion of that revenue and add it into the, how do we say our player earn engine? So we take it from a sentence of what we have from our sponsors, we're able to put that, no, like a dollar per hour or 10 per hour in that so whatever the base upon who our sponsors are. And so whenever you're able to pick a cause, you'll see our different sponsors and donors that are there. You could pick one and that's how you're able to translate your hours into funding. Okay, so the player, do they pick the sponsor or is that pretty random and selected by you? Yeah, so the sponsors, first of all, the sponsors are able to pick the causes that they want to donate towards. And then there's a list of them and the gamers are able to pick which sponsor they want to have their hours be translated to. So some sponsors may want to pledge a dollar per hour. Maybe they want to pledge, no, maybe for every 10 hours they'll donate $20. It gives everyone that the freedom of flexibility of being able to give while at the same time engaging.  But I also want to be tied to a game for good and giving, you know, giving back because I think that that's part of the message that I want to send to people. Can I contact you and become part of this? How does that work in terms of that sponsor wanting to do that? And then how are they actually advertising, you know, will their image or their logo be shown to the gamer? Yes. So when they come on the platform, they're able to, and they sponsor for whatever cause what not, their logos and their brand will also be associated with the cause that they're supporting.  And we create different engaged opportunities to increase likelihood of those gamers connecting with those brands. You know, I see this is a really good way for a non endemic brand to infiltrate esports because gaming because I think a lot of times they're a little uncomfortable with how they might come across and that they might not become not look very, I don't know, might be a little awkward when they don't really have anything to do with gaming. But this might be the perfect way that they can get their message to this younger audience. Is that right? Definitely, definitely. This was meant to accomplish kind of two things. First and foremost, is to create that middle ground where you're absolutely right, both endemic and non endemic organizations, but those non endemic who wanted were interested in how to like enter that esports space. You don't know how this is a way that can be done. Everyone understands fundraising. Everyone has that compassionate piece. And this is once again, we're all coming together for a good cause. That's one and two. And this is kind of one of the biggest things kind of drove the idea of creating this. One of the biggest challenges that was brought to me, it's brought to every esports professional is how do you monetize esports? How do you do it? It's good when it comes to attracting attention, but besides sponsorships, advertising and winning championships is not much of a good way to make money from it. And it's like, how do you make it profitable at the same time? No, driving impact. And my answer was not to create another vertical in the industry, but to create horizontals. What leads back to our company's mission demonstrate the value of gaming beyond entertainment by creating tools and services and products that able to demonstrate and using gaming and esports as a vehicle of means to an end of itself, we're able to demonstrate that we could create horizontals instead and how gaming could be applied in other industries as well. And the first thought process that I had was what's the one thing that everybody can relate to? Fundraising charities, because everybody does, it doesn't matter where you go. Everyone has some sort of fundraising play. And by creating a tool that utilizes that it creates a bridge for everyone to come to where everybody wins from that. But also it's a great way to engage and enter this space on a very neutral way. That's the beauty of it. Sure. And I would think that your partnering or having relationships with marketing executives who are trying to get brands into the esports and gaming space that they would appreciate being able to tell their clients, well, here's another opportunity. It's not directly buying ad space or sponsoring this event, but it is using your kind of using your brand in this other space that connects you with a charity and even better because it isn't so in your face, I think. No, you're absolutely right. And we encourage organizations to take advantage and leverage our platform because also what it does helps create content. Absolutely right. Just blasting advertisements here and there. Maybe people will choose to engage them. Sometimes they'll just add a block or skip their ad. But with this, with the platform and this tool, they can create their own campaign and create ways to engage, not just through a platform, also through themselves as well. I said, hey, we're using this tool. Come, no game with us as we're raising money for this cause. And it's another way to demonstrate that, hey, we want to engage as well, but we're speaking your language. And so that's one of the ways to do that. You know what I like about it most is that in a sense the gamer is saying, I agree to this advertising. I agree to your blasting me with your ads because I know it's for a good cause. And by doing that, the brand really does get a nice foothold. And the biggest and the one of the things that I like to say the most becomes the ROI to brand just like how we're translating the hours into their into the dollars was coming from those brands. What that is, they take it and also thinking about it more of a business mindset, let's say charitable mindset is that's an exchange, an exchange of time for the basic pain for their time in a way and that money in the painful is going to a cause.  So therefore they can say that a doubt are right. We're knowing we're getting this engagement level. It's not just people who are just no looking over us. No, we're actually engaging with us was almost more like guaranteed engagement. Sure. And so you mentioned that you've had five events so far. Can you tell us about those events and the charity? The events that we've done brother five, they were more so like kind of testing out the MVPs that test out the the the model for the gametons. No, we looked at different different charities nearby and also so we've done one charity called Team of Therapy which is in the Baltimore area raising money for kids going through chemotherapy. No, giving them all helping them go through that, with video gaming. We have done stuff for to make a heart association as well as for the action against hunger and some other organizations like that. And also almost recent one, our first one with the other organization was with a local company here called Game Gym and they do this summit three times a year, two, three times a year, and there is money for the American Heart Association but not for the national children's hospital. And so it was just really, really cool. And upcoming we're working with the Marinus STEM Festival and we're going to be using the opportunity to raise money for helping more relief funds for Ukraine during this time of conflict. So really excited for that. You know, I was going to say that would be a good one. I remember an organization that I'm involved in, we did an event to raise money for Hurricane Katrina victims and I thought Ukraine war is a very good example of the kind of charity that creates a lot of, you know, emotional, you know, kind of feelings where people want to get involved and participate. I agree. Yeah. So, you know, and also it's interesting, you mentioned the charity of helping the kids going through chemotherapy. I think it's kind of a perfect match when you find these charities where the kids are gamers or like to game that are benefiting from the charity. So it just seems so perfect. What do you about that?  I mean, it demonstrates that, you know, hey, gaming could be used as a form of therapy. No, gaming could be used as a form of no escape. Gaming could be used as a way that you may even realize you like to game until you have a reason to do it. And this is a great connector. Sure. So last time we spoke, you know, we talked about what you were doing. Since the last time we spoke, what's new with your company? Yeah, so we're actually been currently rebuilding our standalone. So after our MVPs that we've done, we're now currently building the standalone gaming platform called the fundraising platform called Game For Good. We're currently in the reclose beta testing right now. We're going to be having an open beta coming up and we're aiming for end of June beginning of July. So people who are interested can definitely reach out to me and I'll be able to get them on that list of two people to come on. And then one of the biggest things we're currently doing is that, as I said before, we're working with the Miranda STEM Festival to host a week-long eSports event in which one of the things we're trying to do is create that bridge between STEM fields and the career paths that can lead to into the eSports and gaming industry. So we're going to have some panelists talking about what those career paths with opportunities, what's the diversity in the industry and really trying to make an impact and bringing those opportunities to the eSports and DMV areas specifically. Fantastic. And so I noticed that you're wearing the G Haven jersey, which I think is fantastic. Thank you. Tell us what's going on with G Haven. Yeah. So G Haven has become our more gaming division. So because of the content creation, our teams and then we're also going to be looking to start up our own tournament league itself. So that's kind of things we're focusing on and bringing people together. No own gaming umbrella. So that's what things we're really planning out for the end of this year. So you know what's kind of interesting is that in the, I've noticed and I talked about this for Sharon Gill in the last show that since the pandemic began in 2020 that there's been this emergence of all of these eSports and gaming business. When did you start before the pandemic or during? Well, I started before the pandemic. I became up with this idea. So I was so mean that my personal business partner, we had this idea back to 2017. And we actually started building it in 2019. And then 2020 pandemic, quarantine, we were like, wow, that's crazy. Like, didn't see that coming. But we made a lot of pivots during that time, and now it's an opportunity to really open our eyes to understand what is the true direction of the company we're trying to build. Do you think the pandemic that your business kind of benefited from the pandemic? Or do you think it was a big, sort of almost a negative challenge? No, it was, I mean, the pandemic at face value was negative for everybody. But I think it was positive, mainly because the fact that it really challenged our core belief of what our company was really about. And by understanding that belief allowed us to be able to easily make pivots to allow us to create new business models that still resonated with our true core, which led us to where we are now. Sure. You know, I think that there are a lot of charities who have done the same fundraising thing year after year after year. And that they're that those who participate and those who give are getting older and older and older. And so that maybe they need to look at new opportunities that do target the younger markets. And that, you know, I would think that you could actually approach some of these kind of charities that have been doing the same thing for so long and and kind of give them this opportunity. Maybe it would be starting small for a while, but it would be maybe diversifying their their ability to raise money. What do you think of that? No, you're absolutely right. We actually had to go to market strategy and what that looks like. I'm kind of focusing on hence what the the five events we did prior was to kind of demonstrate what it how the whole event looks like. And then leading by example, I would not spend my philosophy for a long time in my life how lead by example. No, I'm not going to actually do something that I'm willing to do myself, even in my business, how I lead it, but also with leading this with other organizations, other charities, okay, this is how you do it. You could do it too. And from that able to share what we have with them to add value to their organizations, their business models, their philosophies and their mission. So what is your dream for game for good? My dream for the company overall is to truly create and inspire what I like to like to call socially conscious gamers, gamers who who know what it means to game with the purpose and they make differences based on that. They actually are more and attentive with what they do on the platform that they have. As we're seeing more and more conflict creators, you know, I want to be able to know that's what our lifestyle is, we'll look to game with the purpose. We have a powerful tool in front of us. Let's change the world with it for the better. Fantastic. Well, we are almost out of time. I would ask that you let people know how they can find you and give you the word. Yeah, definitely. If you want to get in contact with me, my LinkedIn, Dexter Carr Jr., my email, djcarrr at ghavenesports.com and then my number two for 03510809. We'll look for people who want to be beta testers open beta testing for our new platform coming up. And then for organization and branch are interested in sponsoring the upcoming eSports that we have in October with the Mariners STEM Festival, it'll be from October 24th to the 30th. And it's all about, you know, reaching the youth and introducing and demonstrating the career pathways for STEM and eSports gaming industries. So looking forward to hopefully reaching out here for me, guys. Fantastic. Well, thank you, Dexter. I really appreciate you being a guest on my show. Of course, thank you so much for this time. I appreciate it. All right. And to our viewers, if you would like to be a guest on the wide world of eSports, please message me on LinkedIn or you can email me at Catherine at norlaw.com. And thank you for joining us today. Next week, my guest will be Tom Leonard to talk about his new eSports podcast. See you then.


The David Feldman radio program is made possible by listeners like you. You sad pathetic humps Well, this is a very very special episode of the David Feldman show the world's smartest man is with us in our lovely studio here Not to be contentious, but it's the smartest man in the world. What did I say in the world's smartest man? I'm a Mel Brooks catch when I'm on your show The two thousand year old smartest man well help me out because I'm I just got off the phone Doing a bit so my I'm a little frazzled. I see world It's hard for you to get back to the real world when you're in character because of your craft and your commitment What my show is called the smartest man in the world the podcast smartest man in the world But you can call me the world's smartest man if you like well you are thank you and Smartest man in the world Book. Yes, that's the name of the smartest book in the world the smartest book in the world I did I brand so far you're over to Felda that and that's Dan Pasternak and I need you To help me because I can't keep up with this man Greg Brooks I'll do the best I can Alex Bennett. Yes. Who is Alex? I'll expand it was a radio show host. He'd been around what New York, Texas all that jazz in the 60s And and then came to San Francisco. I presume in the Early 80s late 70s and then he had a show there that had all the comics on live every morning for what three hours The first hour was him with the news person then the second three hours of the last three hours of the show was comics live so you Warren Thomas Bob Rubin I me Matt Winehold of Mary and everybody. I remember doing it with everybody and Meeting because everyone who did a press junket that came through San Francisco did his show. So I remember meeting Excuse me. I remember meeting. Um, uh, uh, Mista Holland the movie director Dennis Farina Eric Stoltz I can think of a Donnie Osmond a Brit Eklund. I remember meeting was that all one show Yeah, yes.  That was an out town headliner so he really promoted comedy in a huge way in the mid-80s in San Francisco and He didn't like me at first which he always brings up but then we got to be friends and He put on these live shows. So it'd be like me David Warren Alan what's his name? Alan from Texas he was one of the Kinnison guys Alan Steven Oh, it'd be like those kind of shows and there'd be four or five comics and everybody and everybody get high and You know Ruben be there whatnot and and he paid good money and that was the thing So if you did his show a bunch you could fill your club and those days there were ten full-time clubs in the barrier You know and three in San Francisco. So you really great name them No, oh golly. Well, there was the punchline the Holy City Zoo Cobbs the improv opened later and then in the East Bay. There was Tommy T's There was a punchline in Walnut Creek as well There was to a club in San Jose that I don't think I ever played Rooster T feathers Rooster T feathers in Sunnyvale and They all went all the time Foo bars Foo bars Foo bars That's only three John's John's Club button that was in Martina's moved It was in one pleasant or pleasant pleasant in yeah, and they all went seven days a week or at least five days a week And so if you were playing like I remember I hosted Alex's show one week Cuz he was on vacation or something and I was playing Rooster T feathers And I filled the place every night because all you had to you were on for four hours a day And they loved when I would Guest host because I mentioned the call letters Alex never did the signature, right? He never went you're listening to the quake or whatever it wasn't or live 105 I guess it was at that point and I said it every two seconds so they were like that was a great show Right no matter what I did it was a great show cuz I got this great proofs on live 105 We'll be right back on live 105 and they were like oh my god Do you say the name of the station a thousand times and that's all we really want? Well, so what was Alex's psychology? He just was a professional curmudgeon who would bite the hand that fed him absolutely which doesn't exist anymore No, he was they would call it a shock jock I guess in those days, but he wasn't like Stern it wasn't very stripper although I've met a few porn stars on the show It wasn't that stripper porn oriented sit on a vibrator thing It was really way more about comedy and politics and and Stern admits that he learned a lot by listening to Alex on WPL J and WMCA and That's why Alex came to serious. I mean Stern was a was influenced absolutely and then Alex was always Yes, you say a curmudgeon if Stern got brought up on the show in the old days You know, I can't believe that guy and then he'd go off into a 15-minute tangent about how much he hated Stern Having said that Alex had a real conscience and he he was anti-death penalty was pro-choice for all of his purported, you know miss on misanthropy misanthropy and Misogyny on the air. He really wasn't a bad guy. He had a good heart and he was nice to us, you know He was nice us and he was and he's still alive by the way He's just talking to me because I'm in New York and I haven't called him. That's why I know he's pissed off at me but I'm going through a hard time and Having to talk to Alex when you're going through a hard We're all going out to rock away He I think he helped Bob Rubin probably more than any comic because Rubin when I first saw him was a bartender at the zoo And used to do awesome Conceptual routines which now would be considered a vaunt by the new wave of young comedians He would go I remember he plug it a hairdryer into the Sack the suck you remember this one He put a hairdryer into the socket on the stage at the Holy City Zoo and put the microphone in front of it And then get two flashlights out and just go like this like he's pulling planes in and He went from that to being a giant headliner in San Francisco off Via so much exposure on Alex's show his bits were known when you played with Bob people would scream out his beds And he could do interaction with the audience. I was always surprised that Ruben didn't get more traction in TV I remember Roseanne did yeah, the Saturday night special Saturday night special and I remember like Seeing these really inspired very conceptual pieces and I thought like someone's gonna you know when the show doesn't last is It seemed inevitable it wouldn't someone's gonna pick him up and use him as a Michael Richards kind of character in a sitcom or something because he had that kind of you know big Huge hard laugh kind of comedy by the way, that's Stan past your neck. It is you said that before I introduced you and you're responsible for Marin show and comedy bang bang and well if you want to use the word responsible I don't know whether you're crediting or blaming and you were one of Jonathan Winters closest friends Which I think is the most important thing to say about you that one I will accept an interview Jonathan and Help venerate him which is a something that we were talking about before you came in You were doing your comedy bit downstairs and had no time for us and That's what we were talking about was that that no one goes around like a ray. Oh, yeah, just died and Bob Elliot pardon me. I'm mixed very good with Bob Goes around and gets the old comics and just talks to them for hours He said he what was it Burrell you interviewed it Milton Burrell said Caesar Bob Newhart a lot of these guys have had Mostly for this project for the television Academy called the Archive of American television these expansive conversations that are You know several hours long great one with Bernie Brillstein a great one with George Slaughter. Yeah, and I mean, you know these these People and their stories are the foundation upon which I think we stand absolutely And they're a total resource and no one goes to the show business is so ratty that way I mean that's the brilliance of the podcasting is at least For better or worse, we're gonna have our say in this generation You only wish there was a podcast when Jonathan Winters was swinging because imagine his podcast each week If you just turned the mic on it would still be going right Podcasts, you know, I put them together with Marin and had a great WTF with Mark and Mark was great with them Yeah, our friend Kelly Carlin did a lengthy interview with them. That was great And then Overton had him on overview as well And I think that may have been the last one and the green room prevents. I had him on the green Well, yeah, I helped set that up for Paul and No, and Jonathan Absolutely destroyed and it was one of my it's probably one of my favorite days on the planet because it really was It was a beautiful moment for Jonathan not only to realize how beloved it beloved and respected He was but to also, you know show that, you know, the lion could still roar. He was great He was great on that the thing Dan and I had this conversation last August, but the the thing about Jonathan is People always talk about improv and all this jazz and I get asked about improv He's the greatest improviser of all time. He didn't need a group. He didn't need other people to tag him out He didn't need a premise He came on stage and did it and I remember interviewing about his albums and saying did you ever write down the thing? He went no, I improvised all these albums and you're like, this is astounding And he's the quickest the darkest the most satirical He had a hard edge that people don't really remember about him You know venal politician self-absorbed children horny old ladies He didn't actually he was cuddly because he looked so cuddly and he was lovable And that's how he got away with doing like murderous policemen as characters and stuff when so I put him up I mean Robin obviously because Robin was a force of nature and an extraordinary and his recall and his intelligence But if you want to just lay it down like who's the greatest improviser of all time I don't think there's any argument And and that counts second city and and every other great improv group when you say greatest I only mean that is the his originality the honor of being a true improviser and that Most other guys will draw from previous improv sessions. He was came or he didn't go into Everything was new. He might have had licks that he that he hit on again. I mean, you know, certainly characters I think the last time I saw him and Robin were some horrible benefit and Pasadena or something And he started doing the Indian chief, right? Like that and Robin went like this to him and Jonathan turned and went don't ever touch me Was Robin telling him not to go in no, no, he was simply performing with him on doing the thing and he went like that Now you are known to many for your improv skills. Yes and and And there's an example of it right there was that's how you do it Because I've got lucky and got on whose line a long time ago And I'm one of a kid came up to me the other night at a show in Oklahoma and he goes I want to make a living as an improviser. What advice can you give me and I had to You know stifle myself because I was like you're not going to make a living as an improviser It's like I said, I'm one of eight people that even comes close to making and I don't make my living I must stand up. I do lots of other stuff being there's no five-year plan to being That's not improvisation like I'm on it I'm on a TV show. That's the only improv TV show and now we're on our fourth year It's 26 years into this and it was pure luck at the beginning. You know what I mean? And or whatever you went to England. Yeah, and so what it was an English TV show So it was luck that I got on it luck that the people who got on it got on it But in terms of taking those improv skills, don't you feel that there are now more? opportunities In film and television for actors who are improvisers to bring those skills No question like Judd uses a lot of improvisation Look who he does and the entire cast of SNL and all the sketches are people all Of course, I think there's a lot of in Larry David, right There's a lot of room to do it and right Larry David improvised his ship. Well, I don't know I never did one of them, but if I had a writer like Larry David I wouldn't be improvising in front of them that much. You know what I mean? I would go like here. Can I have a line here to make this funnier? I Always felt like that. I Was the angry Jew and the baptism episode, right? So did you did you guys really improvise everything Larry didn't give people lines He he would let you improvise and then he'd say do it again But don't do that right now. How did how did you find your character? What were you drawing upon as?   I think you know Rick Overton down gave me the greatest advice because you know how Constipated I am as an actor. He goes just whisper. I go what he says just whisper He says you'll you'll be able to improvise and it'll seem like acting and Now whatever yeah, I walked up to Larry and I said hey, I'd like you to speak at my daughter's butt Maybe much easier. Yeah, just whisper bring it down. Isn't that brilliant?  Uh-huh. That's extraordinary.  So with improv You've lived in both worlds very few comics overton does overton that Robin did Not that many but so I'm I just hate comics for some reason and comets hate improvisers and I understand both Why do you understand why comics? Here's my theory as a stodgy constipated stand-up who says to an audience? Here's my brick. Here's another brick. Here's another brick. Hang on I'm gonna pause for dramatic effect and another brick I Always feel that improv people are self-destructive because they're When they stumble into something absolutely brilliant, it's lost for the ages and I'm too greedy Just to come up with something that's absolutely brilliant and not be able to repeat myself That's not that I'm not saying I hate improv people. I don't understand it. Well, I mean There's two ways to look at the universe this way and the other way. No, I think with improv With improv there there's no finite limit to humor So like I improvise my podcast every week a good deal of it other than what I'm reading out of the newspaper And I did a big long thing last night that I don't remember because I was kind of high and If I go back and listen to it I could probably piece it together But I can never be bothered to go back and like write it all down I'd rather make it up on stage and then try to remember it and then work through it that way But I think the reason why most comics hate improvisers is they think well you're doing the same thing all the time and it's just crappy games and my favorite comment ever was why not prepare something funny and Which is true and then improvisers hate comics because they think comics are self Absorbed and I want to cut to the joke immediately and and don't honor the stage somehow or whatever And I don't agree with either of those. I mean, I think you can be funny both ways. Okay, so you're on. Yeah I mean the interesting thing is I Do feel because I sort of draw upon both groups for a lot of projects that I work on and I feel like This is an interesting Maybe I think an interesting thing to liken it to so my wife and I my wife is actually sitting here right now We talk about you know planning a vacation and do you want to go back to the place?  It has great food We know we're gonna have a good time or do you want to discover something new and exciting and goes to place? You've never been before and I think both are valuable great And so I think that that's the analogy that I think of when I think about okay, we know this is the laugh We know we're gonna get this laugh. We've road tested it and it's reliable But isn't the thing that's always the most exciting even for a karmic like yourself is that new piece of material that That thrill of the first time like wow it works and the discovery. All right, so Speaking to that you started with proofs and breakman And I give it you for and you were a brilliant comedy team Some of that was scripted, but I would assume a lot of that was improv We scripted everything and then I would start going off the script and that's when we had disagreements and then he ended up moving to LA I was living in we were in San Francisco He moved LA and then I was left on my own and so I floundered for year But then I joined an improv group and so I did improv for a couple of years And then I came back to doing stand-up and I found that after doing the improv I had a lot more I didn't want to get up alone I'd worked with a partner and I was really afraid that like I didn't think I could just hold the crowd by myself I like being in a group. I like being in a gang and I remember when you came back to stand I remember that I'm started as an opener again. Yeah, and I remember thinking he's not like no He's not gonna be able to do it. He doesn't have You know here or I'm certainly a couple of years ahead of him now because yeah Were you competitive back then you were a little right?  I think it was I was it healthily Healthily is that the I think it's more competitive than the New York scene because I've started at the beginning again I'm at square one. I'm rewriting my act. I'm getting a divorce. I can't you know in my act It used to be how much I hated my wife and my kids Because it wasn't true right now when I tell those jokes, right feels kind of true I was gonna say this is so close to the bone. Yeah, so now I'm writing a new accent I'm starting at the beginning and one of the things I'm noticing about New York is how A generous the entire scene is and if you make it I make it I don't think that's generational though I mean, I definitely felt because I bounced back and forth in the 80s between LA where I grew up and where I was based in San Francisco and I felt like I was one of the few people could sort of do that because Sort of the San Francisco scene hated LA and all the LA comics, and of course the LA comics didn't know Right didn't care. Yeah, it was always a one-way rivalry. It was always like the the relationship between Boston and New York, right? It was gonna be Boston. We hate New York and people in New York. Where's Boston, right? Is that near Philly? Yeah, you know being from LA It's like Marin's joke about his ex-wife who remarries and he goes so that's her game He's still thinking about her and she's off having a family, right? But at the time I really found the San Francisco scene to be You know very pure very artistically pure and I found that the intentions of The the scene the the people in the scene in San Francisco then when LA I think was very at that point was very about like Getting the tonight show and God bless you. God bless you. God bless you. God bless you. Dan past your neck I know right say that again about the San Francisco the intentions the intentions were pure You had to earn your stage time. You never took the stage time for granted and the goddamn gatekeepers in San Francisco Were murderous or snobs and if you didn't pass their muster you were not gonna get the stage time You know I never take stage time for granted because it's gold Also, nobody at that time in San Francisco to my knowledge or at least to my knowledge at that point had Representation so oh no only a few what Bob Fisher was one of the few managers taking around we had taxation though, right? But no relaxation. Yeah That's an expense there for just for you young kids. That's why Greg proofs is a big star and I'm not go He is the smartest man in the war or the world's smartest man if you're a circus actor or dyslexic Yeah, I think you're right about that and I think that do you think it held you back because I think I think yeah I think the purity I think seriously it was it was difficult. It was difficult to get into the regular world because you'd play in San Francisco Say for instance that Wonderland that was the other cafe in the 80s the one that was on Carl and Cole And you'd murder for the whole weekend and then you'd go on the road and do the same act And they would stare at you because you were too high concept. There was too many sub references. We were Violently opposed to any hackery and that was the biggest crime in San Francisco if you came from the South Bay or the East Bay And you were a hack then you got a lot of frosty attitude from all the San Francisco comics But if you were conceptual and intelligent and played above the crowd and did your own thing I mean, okay slow down hang on for one second for my benefit Because I'm not as smart as you and you're saying something that is just in my bones if you were conceptual and playing above the audience's IQ or Appealing to their better angel than you were celebrated in San Francisco, right? I mean like an Earl, right? So and so if you killed if you pulled into town and killed Right then and there you were suspicious Especially if you got too many laughs or the audience liked you too much The idea in San Francisco was always that the audience wasn't exactly your partner in comedy that you were going to present Them with to this thing and then they had to discern. Well, what I found about that audience It's interesting because I know this sort of circles back David to what you were talking about sort of the New York Scene right now is I felt it was a very literate comedy audience in San Francisco in San Francisco in the 80s I actually feel that the New York comedy audience is just as literate now No, but it wasn't it wasn't in the 80s. I wasn't here in the 80s I was only on the West Coast in the 80s, but I really did feel that Greg kind of like Another way to maybe say what you're saying is they appreciated authenticity more than funny Yeah, do you know what I mean? Like somebody like will derse to I'm still friends with to this day. It's like sometimes The stuff that derse right it's it's so smart and so clever But it's not necessarily like you're gonna bust a gut laugh sometimes it is and I think he's brilliant But I think that people just kind of went like wow He just kind of distilled that idea in the most efficient clever Anybody who did rap songs or anybody who did too much flu for a onstage or too much? How you do in tonight? In the 80s if you were a magician or a guitar act other than like Leland master that one or two venerated guitar action San Francisco Everybody kind of sniffed and was like, oh, I don't want to follow the juggler I'm a wordsmith for goodness sakes. I'm up here My act should be printed on brass tablets and everyone should have to look at them in the town square You know like I think there was a lot of that going on and I think that was the healthy part Yeah, tom Sawyer who I think it just doesn't get the credit the cubs Tom Sawyer was the san francisco gatekeeper. I still to this day feel like I've never lived up to his No, me neither me neither, you know, he used to say things to me like, you know You don't have to do the same jokes every time to open and I'd be like You know, right, but it's working Right, I mean tom was somebody who started when we did and then walked away from it to manage cops Thank god. He walked away. It wasn't a very good comic. I thought he was okay. He was a brilliant I didn't know he started as a comic. Oh, yeah No, he was a stand-up comic. Oh, he would I remember I uh, I want to get a physical Physical, I want to get a figure in your head and cough again cough again The other one is a brilliant impressionist. Yeah, tom Sawyer is a brilliant impressionist Vincent price like really wild impressions that no one else does. Yeah, it was it was it was very do them for you After hours when we're sitting around he brought Here's the thing that he did in san francisco. He would bring in acts from out of town Who nobody had heard of yet like kinnison? And this is going back to the standards uh rick overton brought jim carrey into cobs and Jim carrey Could not play san francisco because all he was Was an impressionist. Well, that's when he was doing his vegas act, right?  He did it at cobs. Well The interesting thing is kinnison was kind of the one who shamed him out of Doing that act which was killing for him. Yeah when mitzi had that room in vegas By the way, if you go back and watch Jim carrey's impressions, it was like a twilight zone episode. It was like he had made a deal with Oh, yeah, you're some task.  You would do face first during my favorite one It was beyond it was almost creepy. Yeah, it was so great And then they brought him up to cobs.  I mean, but those are the kind of standards that was in san francisco I mean, I worked there for a year as a house emcee at cobs They were the last club to headline me I was headlining everywhere else and he wouldn't Because he didn't think my act was up to, you know It's as smart as it should have been and then when I did headline for him He had lined me every year for a zillion years and gave me more money than any club owner I told him a couple years ago and he got very emotional like I wrote him this big long letter about how much he helped me and And how much I appreciated that it was no matter what I knew he was in my corner You know what I mean, and that means so much when you're a comic especially when you're young to have someone go I remember when he made me the house emcee because i'm going to give you a Week's work every month Wow, and you're like you were near an emcee you're like what, you know, and so I played with george wallace and Um, oh my god, not jeff stelson Oh, I can think of a million Greg travis yeah 80s comedians that came through san francisco and I hosted for all of them and uh He he he would give these terrible lectures to every comedian about how they were failing I never got a terrible one, but dana gulder and marisa dana gulder who's a genius And told him he wasn't living up to his potential, you know, and But I don't know that we needed it, but it was effective like I'm curious do tom Sawyer still exist That kind of that's the thing it's like when you go alex brazil, maybe I don't know how much you go on the road But like when you go to um When you go to a comedy clubs out in america There's no one tom was the owner bottle washer doorman. You know what I mean like he was standing there No one walked down to that stage that he didn't pass. I mean no one I remember when tom rhodes first came to san francisco. I said you should give this he's really funny indeed He I already worked with him a little so he put him up and he came over to me while tom was on 190 He goes he's a latitude and I went he's not Listened to him. So he put him up and I'm not saying I helped tom rhodes career or anything But eventually he did start to play him there and everything But he was rough, baby If he didn't like your look or your first few jokes Or he thought you were pandering in any way or playing I think his biggest thing was if you were playing below What he thought you I have a very vivid memory a very vivid memory. I was killing it at the holy city zoo Which was for clowns. You had to be clown That was the other cafe was for the surrey black side the other cafe was your eggheads Right, and I was I was a holy city zoo guy I was you know, I wanted and I think that's what robin kept in his heart the holy city I think he loved very much that like mark weiner at the time was like kind of like a big Holy city zoo guy remember mark weiner and the wienerettes. No, I don't know I I from nicolodium, but that was not The street performer guy who No, I get in the name room But there was a mark weiner and the wienerettes and he But I don't think of him as a holy city zoo act, but I do remember this Mill table, yeah, and larry brown said to tom You really should see david feldman. He's killing it at the holy city zoo. This was pre clown zoo This is before she'll do yeah, so I did I open with Sawyer's in the crowd and I open up with raymond donovan Something about the secretary of labor and ronald reagan three smart jokes They don't work I panic I go you want to confuse your cat leave one of your own in this box big laugh And I big laugh and I see oh i'm getting a standing ovation from somebody and it was the back of tom Storming out of the club and then he called up milton larry and screamed at them.  I'm still to this day. Just Remember that that's hilarious somebody we were he would tell comics openly Yeah, I mean people would they play cards sometimes the cops afterward And I won't say his name because he's passed but there was a comic that would come and go And he said to tom one night. How come you never put me on at your club?  Well, I mean when when I first started which I think is around the same time you first started We're you did open like I remember mill label said to me in like 1983. I've done more I've hosted more showcases and I've been in more showcases than any comic in san francisco Like we're talking a couple hundred nights a year right He would do like five a year right Monday tuesday wednesday thursday and then if you had a gig blah blah blah I would I was an alcohol ago. I was trying to quit alcohol and I didn't like I still am David So this hurts a little and I didn't want to hang out in bars Yeah, and one of the things I found refreshing about san francisco was You were being judged solely on the five to ten minutes You spent on stage.   I have I have stuff to do right But in those days when you were single in your 20s, it was like, but yeah, there was no shortcuts then I remember the first gig I ever got force and I did a set at the zoo for break force breakman I was in a very unfunny double act and Or team as we called them then and and the guys were very funny The phone rang downstairs and it was rebecca who was sitting upstairs at the zoo The zoo was the smallest club in the world and yet They would foam from upstairs. It was literally there, right? And it was a red phone like the bat phone and And uh-huh, uh-huh, and I don't remember who was bartending went.  Yeah me And I saw the seven dollars and fifty cents each or something like that. Was it steve pearl presents Oh, yeah, which meant steve pearl would go on and do An hour Then he would run the first act but an hour of lightning bolts from god. God was speaking directly to steve and pearl, right? Yeah, he the spanish few stooge's he would do Moe larry. What was it moe curly and lorenzo? I was obsessed with pearl so fun because i was from new york and he was from new york and i You know how you own certain things like i owned pearl I was convinced that only i really got the genius of steve pearl and i would say you don't understand How funny he is but he's a genius and you just don't get i get all the jokes i'm i really yeah I was very possessive funny the elvis presley nature trail.  I mean And it was a shithole it really was the bathroom was awful and it was right there next to the And when people had to go they had to walk in front of the stage If you were going to make egress or ingress to that club you walked in front of the performers every time Well, is it safe to say that jeremy kramer was robin's all-time favorite? I would say I think the comics that had the most influence on me were kramer because of his absolute fearlessness on stage There was years we would go by where he no laughs and he stood his ground all the time always I remember playing a weekend with him at the other and he turned to the window and sat and went jeremy jeremy Nobody likes jeremy for like a year, right at this point the crowd has no idea what's going on My wife who I was just dating them. It's how long goes is in hysterics and um him slayton Um slayton because he was cocksure Slayton stage presence impressed me more than anything else because he never smiled He just rattled the jokes off and wildly racist and misogynistic in san francis.  I remember going to a gig in Some shithole and sam rafael on a Tuesday night And I was getting 50 bucks or something and I presumed he was getting 250. This is the 80s And I go, what are you doing here on a Tuesday and he goes greg? I'm working I'm the comedian right and he goes there's something to be learned every night greg You don't just quit when you I'm in like you're a headliner and you get more money than me, you know like And and then he also said to me once so what did you do with that joke? You dropped it from your act and well, it's not timely anymore. And he goes never ever discard jokes You can recycle those jokes and rewrite them the idea is still there the kernel of it You're throwing material away by doing that And I'll you know as a 20 something I was like I never thought of that, you know So I've told him this too, which of course he hates to hear and everyone hates to hear when you're there They're an intentional mentor. No one wants to be that but I learned all that from him the economy of writing the keeping the writing The keeping the writing the writing has to be in a book and you have to go back to it and you can take a joke from 20 years ago and redo it.  I'm Honey, can you just wait have a seat? How are you? Can you just sit and Do you mind My wife doesn't she doesn't There was one I don't know who they are I don't know where we are. In fact, so just wandered into a flat So So Will Durst said to me that it name dropping that it takes four years to get funny Now more. Well, is that Will Durst or Robert Durst has said that? Good one. Thank you.  I killed them. I killed them. Yeah, Judy gold has just joined us You're just joining us. I just joined you guys. How are you? You know, I'm I'm in rehearsals for Shakespeare in the park and nice. What are you playing? Well, we're doing an all-female version of taming of the shrew. I don't know if you guys have heard of it And I'm playing gremio. I'm playing a man. So we have had your patricio's Sidekick. I am baptista sidekick. Yes. I am the very wealthy Older gentleman who wants Bianca but gets tricked out of every and so we have to we were have been learning how to Walk like men All the things these things men do and The women who are straight.  Yeah, um, I'm a carrier That would do a joke of vegetarians lost hot dog Exactly Exactly.  Well, we've had sex. Why don't you describe what you encountered? um What was down to tell the best part was putting my fingers through your hair uh-huh The one what that one right there Um, what tell every plug has been bought and paid for. Um, how was what was it like? I'm down there because you you explored my below my belt. What tell them describe it.  Do you make nasty sarcastic comments when you're having sex? No, I just say I just have my eye on the meter. Okay, gregg. I'm gonna give this is my mother passed away last, uh, june I'm sorry. Thank you. Thank you, gregg. Thank you. I'm happy about it. Thank you and I was thrilled.  Yes, and this is what I so she lives on right absolutely And I get a text, you know, everyone's like, oh, I'm so sorry about and I get a text from David Feldman that says Can you pick me up from the airport? And then I don't answer and it's like question mark question mark question mark And then she writes i'm sitting shiver. Yeah, and I said what time does it end because my flight comes in? And if you wouldn't mind I'm hungry Yeah, you gotta respect and doubling down on it. Yeah, that's true. That's true if you could bring up the ollie or something right now has alex heard of any sort of uh air conditioning or Uh, oh the fan moving at you know Point yeah, what's now ready for a nickels joke. There's a guy in the back going. Hey you buddy. Why is everyone else drinking? All right Enough talk about comedy Let's talk about all right tragedy Enough of your act David, how long is this going because you know, I'm recording a podcast here with mr. Proops. Are you? Yes, I am. Okay. Well, let's are we? Yes It's podcast ambush. Let's talk. Yes. I'm getting ambushed. All right I am I'm gonna make a statement and then you guys respond. First of all, let's dampen you mean refute Okay Daniel tell us why judy gold is daniel. You're very nice. Thanks. Tell us why judy gold is One of the funniest people who's ever held a microphone Uh She's jewish Thank you. Uh, and the sisterhood will be meeting at seven p.m. Uh sunday night for all right go ahead No, she knows who she is, you know, I think comedy is The the great practitioners are people who who know who they are and own it and I think that's what you've always been This is this is not a joke. This is not a joke His wife, sorry My wife is here Now Do you want I have to drink? Is is this are you a psychologist?         Are we changing topics?  Oh, I see. Yeah. Yeah. Well, I was But I was gonna I was just fixating on what jitty was saying because I feel the same way I wake up in the morning.  You know what I mean? Why did it happen? Why right in 1992? I could have done this and everything would have been different All I can think about and then I go I wonder the years that go by right right decade. What did I do? Yeah Why am I happy then wait?   She gets no credit But she's not a stand-up comic, but she's genius She's serious. What did she say the other one the other day? You see 40 year old men on skateboards because you don't see 40 year old women on skateboards because women grow up Yes chump What I was gonna say is that judy owns it and trump owns it and that's what's so appealing and Oh, yeah, hang on. Okay. I see deep deep down inside on if I if I held a gun to your head Yes, and after my erection subsided holding a gun to your head. I was gonna say I remember when we shot this movie in the early 80s Hung men of the night. I think it was called. It's not hbl. Yeah It's don't isn't there a huge part a huge party huge huge Why that loves trump of me? Yes No, but I would rather have dinner with him than Ted Cruz I live or I you know if you're gonna have dinner with trump There'd be stories.  There'd be secrets. He'd say something horrible Ted Cruz. I think Probably not want the trump stick. That's the only thing I would have that dinner Did you see in the times today? He they interviewed over 50 Women who have you know dealt with him. How bad was he? He was really bad. Any woman who votes for him is your rapist Did he did he forced himself? I didn't read the whole article Um, but that would be the that would be the hat. Not like you shouldn't skip down. All I have to say Is the person who is happiest for trump's success is bill cosby. That's all I Okay, so here's the conversation my wife and I were literally having on the train I'm just gonna caucus the the three of you here Do you think that there is any transgression any revelation that could come out about trump? That would change the minds of the people who are inclined already to vote for now That he would say something that is horrifying Something would be revealed about him in business or in his personal life Is there anything that you know, we could unearth about trump where you'd go? Wow, you know gosh now that I know that about trump. I I don't think I could Right Genius of trump is the candidate, right? Right.  He's a billionaire. Who's not a billionaire.   No journalists have asked him what what When you say make America great, what do you mean? What era are you talking about the segregation era? The homophobic era slavery the confederacy which era was America great in that he's talking about a fictional white people Past that they keep fobbing off on us the anyone can succeed if they work hard enough trope That's the most in name piece of bullshit that's ever been funneled down the world And then the idea that keeping muslims out of the country is going to make america great And the future is an all inclusive future where everyone gets recognized and he's not having that and I think that's what The people respond to that love them and therefore nothing he did if he abused women Hey, I would have too. I was rich. I had money. You know what I mean, like how long I've known you since 1982 Yeah, you know me better than anybody in this room probably you've seen me at my worst points Like now wow why so it's worse than this No, it's never more. All right. Yeah, this is why do I love trump? What's love trump? Yes, I do Well, I think because he what's wrong with me you're you're a contrarian by nature and uh, he if I am yes I am He appeal he appeals to that element of your personality Uh, anyone who would ask for a ride, uh from someone whose mother's just died is going to love trump and as part of their sense of Humor, I think it is but I also believe he's doing a great service to this country. I do too.  I mean sort of I felt like with the emergence of the tea party It's like, oh, there's not one republican party anymore, right? I see I that that I don't buy until yeah, but look what bernie sanders is doing to the democratic party I think the the the g.o.p. Is like nbc In that and curry. Yeah The g.o.p. Is like nbc in that You get a programming director in there who puts on super train and hello larry and pink lady and jeff If you're gonna just do the whole fred silverman thing I don't want to replay that episode. All right, so it's like fred silverman go up nbc is ruined forever And then ronald reagan comes in as the program director of nbc and it's morning again for it So I I think in four years. So in your scenario ronald reagan was the brandon tartikov The grand tinker the grand tinker grand tinker what i'm saying is that and I mean this that The that that four people I know that trump is fred silverman. He's destroying the network But it's still an institution and overnight you can reprogram it Oh, sure And does he even want to be president? Let's get to the bottom line on this He can't really be president and if he was what would he do and what the fuck?  He didn't say he hates muslims He said we have to stop new muslims from coming in till we figure out what's going on And I think that's a fair statement. Um, he doesn't understand what's going on. That's that's honest That's it. Okay Well, I think melanie. I'll make a wonderful First light. I mean she is brilliant. Welcome to the vibe house. I have welcome to the vibe house. Would you like some tea?  Okay, sorry But we can call her melanoma. I can use those all the time for you melanomia. That's his that's his wife's name melanomia Yeah, do I love donald's is it possible that I love this country more than everybody in this room combined Oh to be sure david your patriotism has never been in question and I believe that's why you left the west coast Yeah, I I believe that that and his clinical depression Melania melanomia textbook depression by the way, okay, i'm in books uh My depression is done. It's a wonderful man.  Well, I mean, but he didn't just go We're gonna give about the jews until we figure something out The difference between chump and hitler is I think that hitler actually had Substance it was horrible substance, but there was actual substance there Trump has no substance what he has is great branding. That's what he does.      I think you're scapegoating trump. I think you Need somebody to hate and and and americans. I have you david Yeah feldman's hair or trump's hair pick one I'm gonna have to go with feldman's hair.  It's christmas eve.  Yeah, not young and hip. Yeah young and broken hip is what you are I No, I didn't want to show too much respect for the audience that's wow. Wow, that's right Up for them. Wow, you're so don't you wake up every morning wanting you talk about waking up and say I regret I should have done this what happened like what happened at the time and then and then you so you say it's trump's fault This is what you turn on. I don't say that actually scapegoating donald trump.   I will never forgive bush and cheney for what they did I think they destroyed the country.     Well, how can you be a woman and vote for uh trump? And they're standing behind him.  I don't have time. Okay iceberg slim I didn't put it there All right, bernie sanders Not my favorite. I mean, I'm glad he's in the race. I think he's fun and uh, uh, but I don't uh, I I said it before uh, uh, and you'll say it again.   It's authenticity. It's again It's really interesting is this is the year where whether it's the illusion of authenticity with someone like trump Or I think the actual authenticity of somebody that's what people are okay I just want to say misplaced misogyny from both of them. I do. I I believe from from bernie. Yes.   So stop waving and it's jane I totally jane sanders who hates hillary that is pushing him to continue on. I guarantee you think bernie I agree with jenny gold. You think dammit. Greg You you think that when bernie Doesn't like hillary its misogyny when he stands up to her stands up.  He's not a democrat who's taking money from the democratic party who's always suing the democratic party every time he loses He complains that it wasn't his fault that not enough people came out and then if hillary wins a state Oh, yeah, well, there was a lot of schwarzes in that state. So why should we why should we care or whatever He puts down women consistently. He puts down minorities consistently in my point of view in my point of view What about when he said it's because poor people can't can't vote.  I love greek proofs. I mean, I he has every right to run and I think it's exciting because it's galvanized Young people who have no idea how the political system works because our educational system has let everyone down so horribly utterly and completely I voted the minute I was 18 and I voted for jimmy carter because that's the kind of Don keody. Yeah He's really good for israel. Yeah, I am uh, but When people in new york complain like oh my god, I can't believe that you can't vote for Someone if you didn't register ahead for the party.   I just wanted to bring this down to it while you're really taking the When you ask me about bernie and I've never given my real opinion on any on my podcast I didn't talk about it with on my podcast. It's all peace and love and we're all I accept all points of view and Stuff but since you ask that's how I feel about it. I agree with reg proves. He's a channel for the misogyny that young Guys feel toward women.  They're also saying what we don't want is a woman and that that's a very big Now let me say something this is my one question if hillary was a man and bernie was a woman and bernie And it was a jewish woman. I would tell him to smile. I would tell him to smile. Okay.  We're not done.   Okay Well, but are men entitled to A certain aesthetic when it comes to female politicians.  Am I am I a misogynist and those faces? Let me ask the question. You don't have to give an example. They have to give an example It's is it's like the preamble to the constitution. We hold these truths to be self-evident I'm gonna correct the smartest man in the world. It was the decoishment of independence He doesn't even he's never read the constitution.  Let me uh, I as he's known to his intimates.  If you're threatened rephrased it now you're putting it on us doesn't make you a personal pronoun exercise here Okay Am I a misogynist? Yes?  I'm just trying here's the other thing that about What is that? All right. Does do I am I a misogynist?  Does that make me have a such No, it makes you a pervert It makes you the steed larson No, it makes you buffalo bill The other thing that I really About bernie and trump is um, I think that this should be a grand march to have to another Step into the future by electing the most qualified candidate in my lifetime hillary clinton And that I see I don't see bernie sanders as a big bonus Uh, uh, isn't it so wonderful that he threw his hat in the ring? I see him as a stumbling block in the way of what I perceive as The best possible future. I think he repeats the same thing over and over again I don't think he he has nothing new to add to the conversation when you ask him about uh, how you're gonna You saw the interview in the daily news, right where they go. Oh, yeah. Yeah, so you're gonna read you the banks How are you gonna do it under whose authority anyway? I got authority That's not an answer. I'm gonna check With my rab. Oh, I'm not jewish. I'm not gonna check with my rab. Yeah, you moved to vermont. So right away Right away.   She seems very likable. I've seen her speak live. She's been gauging. She's cute She's smart as the dickens.  What is what is the quality? You know, george w bush? Well, he just seems like a guy you'd like to have a beer with right i'm telling you it's about Actual or perceived authenticity?  What's gonna say? Yeah, he's a bore Maybe in the 80s, it would have been fun to have a beer with him because then you'd have done a rail Yeah, I was gonna say then there'd have been cougar Now we can kind of crash today with his wife and kill someone. Let me ask you this question He was rich. So you know, yeah, good coke. There there is much Delivered by a portuguese guy with an anvil can I don't know now. I'll have the big package over there. I don't know that one looks good is I I am I I'm voting for bernie I'm what a surprise. That is such a really good vote.  He has offended the act of sex All right, this is why I'm voting for and then you respond to this I believe there's much virtue in going apeshit that You just need to pick the right target to go apeshit on You know, uh, chainie and bush went apeshit on iraq. Now if I hated the iraqi people, which I don't Only the one right? If I hated the iraqi people I'd be very happy with what bush and chainie did because they went apeshit on iraq and look what's happening And what I hate is wall street.  She's not going to well, even if he was president.  That's great. We need to go What about our standing in the world? Okay. What about our standing in the world with foreign leaders? hillary is just Look, yeah, she's not qualified.    I would pick somebody who's new. I said which resume I don't I don't hire based on resume. I hire based on sexual orientation Which is legal in 30 states in america, by the way Did you know judy gold that in 30 states in this country?  And not rent me your apartment and or hire you because I don't approve. Yes. I know that because you know why why? I'm a lesbian. Okay.  No, that's just I will have an arrangement Go ahead I'm sorry. No, no, it's okay. I mean, I just don't I don't I don't see everybody's trepidation about her all the time I it doesn't read with me at all, but it's a safe bet. She's a safe bet.   I'm turning straight for greek.  No, never. Sure. What are you? Yes Okay, and they're they have great And I'm sorry that you have to sit through his they they have great resumes lawyers, right lawyers have great resumes And they and they we're not talking about that.  She's had two jobs Wow, I just shoehorned a bit from my act that doesn't work Have you heard? Not good. I'm thinking I understand. Have you heard your act recently Here's one from my act. Bernie says he's going to close the banks. No jews ever said that Even even jesus just flipped some tables over and went all right fellows. We'll see you tomorrow That's a joke david.  Yes, it wasn't even clean. It had like The sweat salt on the side just tell me tell me it wasn't that's happened on a boston cap Just please.  There's an oakland ace cap. Oh, okay. So there you are A boston cap to me is like boom.  That was attractive as well I'm surprised you know that campus assault artist Pray for me. Yeah, I will Will you pray for me tonight? You know, can can can we I just want what you're saying and then we'll move on Which how long is this because I have to meet my wife at a certain point. Wait, you have to do my podcast I can't I have to What time is it 5 20 and what time are we wrapping up alex? Uh-oh Well, it's 5 18. So you have two minutes. Okay, this obviously this has just been the highlight of my trip to new york Yes, you're at caroline. You're at carolines. I'm at carolines. Is it better than it was? I'm playing there a couple years When you're there, it's better. You know, you know what people say you we hope Friday night late and Saturday night late. I've never had more fights with audiences than any club in the world I can't I can't say this is a promoting the show and it's gonna drop and then luce is gonna hear it.   Okay, go well years ago when schwarzenegger Did the beer hall put in california? I remember I opened with a lawn and I said, uh, oh, it's nice to have a Serial rapist as our governor or whatever and a guy in the front row at carolines went no And I went I'm sorry and he went no and I'm like, you know, you actually don't get to stop me from doing this And then in order to flummox him completely I said, let's do something that's no one done and in quite a while Let's agree to disagree and I kneeled down on the stage and went like this Will you agree to disagree with me and he So he took my hand and he had to at that point he I shamed him into right with me um The set veered completely off the table at that point It broke into different clacks in the house, right?  I finished the show and I was shaking I went backstage and uh, uh, uh, Stephen Stephen. What's his name? Kenny comes back and goes Oh, I love Kenny. Yeah, I love Kenny Kenny comes back and goes There's a couple people that I want to talk to you and I thought oh fuck. I'm not going out right there was 80 people in line That wanted to talk to me.   He's got a shaved head He had a body like a raindrop right like a pointed head And i'm finishing and he goes I got a question That was his voice right and I said yes darling at long last finally. Yes What is your question and he went how come you don't talk more about pussy? And I said I've had more pussy than you've had hot meals And but all I can think it was we were 40 minutes into it 40 minutes into it and that's all that was on his mind And so that's why I wanted to know if the crowds go like you were saying crowds in New York or hitper and I found everywhere I've gone Where you are in the city because honestly that's Times Square. Yeah, that's Times Square It's brought Caroline's on Broadway Broadway, right? How great you are see Thursday always fucks me up because uh, uh, you know You know you have a great you have a good set on the weekday then Friday night late comes and after 10 minutes Everyone starts talking and I'm like really I can't hold your attention.  I'm gonna do a bit like yeah, just tell them to go I get the as you talk real bad That that room sometimes So make 21st So come and see me The 19th through the 21st of carolines.  I'm not kidding I think it'll be better because I think people are a little hitper I think everyone's gotten a little hit when you play oklahoma. Where do you play in oklahoma? Well, I just did a like a performance lab thing So they were all there to see me but I play all over the country and I played Houston this year in Arlington and you know, Arlington's great And they you know, they laugh They're not it's gonna get it's not like it was like the the red Best rooms right now in the country.  I went there for their limestone festival two years ago He said the thing that honestly made me want to cry from from joy He said I opened this room so that one week a year I can have maria banford Wow, wait, hold on Now what is the difference To answer your question. What's the difference in the comedy attic in bloomington, indiana and that comedy attic in amsterdam Well once Because it was like an anfrank. No, they sell pot at the comedy attic in amsterdam now I'll play the comedy attic in bloomington. He's great. He's great. He's a purist He doesn't he doesn't even he won't even sell hard liquor He's only sells beer and wine because he doesn't want them getting drunk helium in Minneapolis. I'm not allowed to work for the helium company. No, no acme I like acme lewis lee. I haven't played an acme in years.  Yeah, they're really really you don't play acme and I didn't help them there and listen.