all right welcome everybody my goodness you guys are so prompt I see hi Peter van hi Sam hi Richard Charles Peter Kaminsky Bill Judith so great to see all you guys welcome welcome welcome you're also very punctual thank you Jerry we're going Peter van we met but I've invited you and checked out your stuff for some years so it's great to connect to you thank you I've got to keep my participant room so I'll be admitting people for a little bit here Jerry and your microphone I think your microphone is acting up a little bit is it me okay maybe a cable okay hello Kevin hello Lauren how are you welcome we're just getting started here hi good Sam do you hear me now yes Jerry yes great okay good I was using my really good microphone which was screwing up so I'm on the earbuds now how about that low tech lessons we learn yes I see Lena Lena hi how are you nice to see you hi and hello April hey Philip hello hello yeah you man and I see Mike is on as well at least from an audio hi and Charles you said hello I may say hello to you three times as I make as I make a list of who's in the round here she is coming in but her her zoom is updating so she'll be with us in a sec eating a little so I'll go off camera for until needed Richard awesome Richard is in Hong Kong and usually sports a TARDIS really yeah nice yeah that's a good one all of it today oh yeah this is lovely hey Lauren who's your company my daughters who are playing the piano so I will mute myself awesome perfect a little background music no it's perfect it's some thinking music I'm good to see you so I'm at a disadvantage because I don't know all of you I see D Howard does it yes hi my name is David Howard I'm a David yes friend of Mr. Sy is over there hey David it's great to have you here welcome thank you hi how are you hi I'm good thanks we'll do introductions in just a second hi Mike and Mike you have a you have someone with you one of you is Mike I won't presume who is it Mike that's Olga hi Olga Mike and Olga Mike Peeler I've heard about you and I've never ever I've heard so much I feel like we've met let's go into a breakout room and talk about that yes all right so Jerry you think we're you think we have quorum here is there is there somebody you know I think so I think there's probably another five six people who might join but we might as well dive in that's fantastic cool hey can I feel so misled you have you have a clean face on Facebook but I don't recognize you I just got tired I figured no one cares so I'm not shaving I'm not haircut three months so it's just it'll go oh the same I mean yeah I'm aiming for Bjorn Borg but it's gonna take a while real real quick hey can you send Chris the zoom information yeah okay excellent we may have a scribe graphic facilitator join us and start taking some visual notes for us so yeah it'll be great so guys thank you so much for being here we are so excited we were just had a pre-call and and we were so giddy that we almost forgot to let you in but Jerry of course remembered and was prompt I'm Hamilton I'm gonna sort of be moderating today but really just a name only I really want to try to be framing a great conversation with all of you guys so here's what we're doing I want to do some intros and actually you know generally when we do virtual intros or intros in a session we sort of breeze through them because we know that there'll be more talking but I really want to spend some time because we're really proud to have this group of people together and and you've been picked for for because you're great and you bring a lot to the table so we want to get to know everybody who's in the room so we'll do that and then we'll get into it and we'll do a little bit of a background about why we're here and what we're talking about I'll frame the big questions that we're gonna grapple with today and we'll just dive into it we'll sort of roll around in them and then we'll end the call about where we go from here and what role could you play if you wanted to and being a part of this going forward so that's what we're gonna do and I'm gonna sort of it's I find it easier if I'm very prescriptive in the introductions so let me say here's first of all what I'd like to know I'd like to know who you are I think we know that why are you here and that means who do you know what brought you to this call was it Jerry was it Matt was it something else where you dialing in from and then the last thing what's your superpower you all have one sometimes it's just to get to remember what it is not related to anything but coming from you what is your strength what is your superpower okay and so I think I've got everybody's names here I'm gonna be doing it but let me just tell you how I'd like to do it I'm gonna run down the name so you sort of know where you're on the list Peter Kaminski Bill Sites Charles Peter and Richard Judith Sam Kevin Lauren Lena and Mike and Olga David on hell and April and then Ken I'm gonna make sure I if I forgot you I'll make sure I didn't but that's the order we're gonna go in so I'll do who's up next who's on deck so we're gonna get everybody 60 seconds if you want but let's start Peter Kaminski you're on deck Bill Sites you're next who are you where you're from why are you here and what's your superpower I'm Peter Kaminski I'm here because of Jerry Jerry and I go way back I'm calling in from San Diego and my superpower is probably I it's a longer story but maybe being sensitive and and perceptives and being able to make connections and superpowers are also super weaknesses of course of course that was implied excellent all right so Bill Sites you'll go next and Charles you're on deck great I'm Bill Sites I am living in the exerbs of Chicago and exile from New York City I've known Jerry for 20 plus years and I am here because I am a junkie for open collaboration growing from individuals small groups and I've been a wiki junkie for 20 plus years and probably my superpower is hyper pragmatism for software specific plans in terms of who can actually what can you actually get done with minimum resources and maximum adoption awesome I want to introduce a term that Jerry something that Jerry taught us is when instead of applauding or anything like this you can do little it looks like jazz hands if you see your wrists or just keep it below or do jazz hands this means I agree with what's being said this means I disagree with what's being said it's totally legit and if you're in gallery view it really really works in zoom hopefully you're not doing that too that there's none of this through the introductions Jerry but I'll leave that to you okay Charles you're up next Peter van you're on deck Charles thank you it's really delightful to be here and an honor in fact I'm a co-founder of collective intelligence collaboratory along with learning on who's here and network weaver and interoperability freak I'm here because of Jerry Mikowski and your greatness Jerry and your call to action I'm president accounted for dialing in from Zurich Switzerland and if I had to pick one superpower and I was digging and I didn't grab it in time because I was short up on the list here there was a Twitter thread exactly about this where I found myself challenged to give one because there's kind of a list but I picked one for now and it's interoperability flow thank you nice thanks Charles that's great okay Peter van and then Richard you're on deck and Peter van I know Jerry I know Ham I know a couple of other people here in this group I'm calling in from Flanders and my superpower is creating artistic interventions and interruptions Peter great to have you here okay Richard and then Judith you'll go after Richard hi my name is Richard I teach leadership from a quarry business global MBA and I run a community of disruptive thinkers based out of Hong Kong I might start fading at some point because it is 11 o'clock at night here I'm here because I know Jerry although we've only recently met through a contact in Australia and my superpower is my sense of irony that's great thanks Richard all right Judith you're up and then Sam you'll be next hi I'm Judy I'm from Minneapolis St. Paul Minnesota I'm here because I met Jerry about 15 years ago and participated in Utah and some other things love integration of thoughts and my superpower probably is connections and integrations of somewhat disconnected things great thanks Judy appreciate that all right Sam you're up and then Kevin you'll be next well as many of you are I also am a queen so Jerry's although much more recent than most of you I think it was only like six maybe five years ago feels like was it that I don't know feels like one that I'd have to check well you know we first met in 2008 but then we kind of didn't stay in connection but then you know I went to your retreat I think maybe and we each dated different people and finally we met again in a coffee shop and things just went off from there sorry Sam go ahead I should say my super low power is my lack of memory okay hence my desire to push everything into external repositories and that's why I'm so enamored with the brain and with workflow we and you know dynamic knowledge repositories etc let me go through this real quickly I think I found it and I'm an amateur in this field I call a collaborative which is a successful scaling of collaboration and so in it I've got a tongue-in-cheek list of what I call smart people problems which I love to share at some point I'm also a Doug Engelbart disciple wannabe so I've embraced and really trying to extend his ideas and visions so among them is an idea called the community of impact which I've kind of recruited a few of you into one of my superpowers is not quit I promised Doug that I would not quit to try and bring his reality his vision to reality so I've maintained that ever since 2008 and a couple of the things I'm an ex-lisper so current closure in for those of you who know what that means and I used to be a co-chair of the Silicon Valley Engineering Leadership Council for about 11 years and still am you know what I'm in the Bay Area and my day gig is I'm at E gain which is a Sunday we all complete in my title there used to be VP of engineering but now I'm a technology evangelist to go out so I get to that title over sorry to be so long that's great no fantastic awesome all right everybody Kevin you're up and Lauren you're next Kevin gangl founder of unstoppable conversations dialing in from Edmonton Alberta and I'm here because Jerry said come to this thing so I'm looking to forward to what I came to and my superpower is to work with with a group who's up to big stuff and take the invisible context which is running the show make it visible and tangible so they can actually do something about it awesome thanks Kevin all right Lauren you're the next and then Lena you'll be after her yeah I'm learning you I'm American but I live in Paris and you know I hate to just copy Judy but I would say that connections and integrations of disconnected things is also my thing so thank you Judy and I'm also from Minneapolis so oh wow okay Minnesota well just like Paris great thank you so sorry that joke fell a little flat there nothing against either city I love them both Lena you're next and then Anne we'll hear from you after Lena hi I'm Lina Rindren Green I'm actually a Singaporean but I'm living here in Cupertino California that's where I'm dialing in from I run an angel investment network that invests into women and indigenous led social enterprises that are tackling poverty gender equality and responsible production and consumption it's called angels and I'm on this call because I know Jerry and I know him actually quite recently through the EXO network when we were at the EXO summit and my superpower is usually taking very complicated ideas and kind of simplifying it and helping to use that to connect people awesome thanks line okay and you're up and then Mike and Olga you guys are on deck hi I'm Ann Pendleton Julian I'm calling in from Los Angeles where it's absolutely glorious at the moment I'm an architect started out practicing architecture actually started out in astrophysics do everything from houses to universities to systems and institutional art protecting I think I've never really thought about super power it's actually a term that kind of has has bothered me a little bit over the years but if I said if I if I had any it really is basically just finding the entanglements and things and understanding where there's value and stories and meaning everything from things to people to ideas and from there complex entanglements awesome thanks and okay Mike because of Jerry of course I think that just be the tagline to all of us so Mike and Olga you guys are on deck and then on hell we'll hear from you after them I everyone from Madrid Spain okay can you hear me yes we can okay I'm the founder of idea Goraz which is a company founded back in 2009 to explore those principles under the market of conversation the first thesis of the crude trend manifesto and I met Jerry in exo-war as well and I got really really inspired and hooked by his mindset about trust the principle of trust and since I'm now in an intersection of evolving my company because social media marketing has left all the good things that attract to me and now I'm heading through human branding to put branding to put human in the middle of everything and I do really think that everything is is is being run by mistrust he got my attention I asked to Jerry for a contact in LinkedIn we met and we had the last week a nice conversation in Spanish his Spanish is great and he invited me to attend this this this meeting and I'm very excited to learn about who opened global mind with all you right my superpower is being an enthusiast I'm a kind of professional dreamer I'm always being a professional dreamer awesome I love it welcome I'll give you yes thank you I have all right so Mike and Olga will go with you guys now and then David you'll be on deck right hello everyone I'm Mike Peeler I am a software developer in Cincinnati and came here via Matt I've known Matt pretty much my whole life and that's not an exaggeration so I'm very happy to be here I think my superpower is grunt I given a task or a problem I'll I can't let it go so I power through so like I said earlier it can be a super weakness as well but I'll take it as a superpower for now and then all the peeler I am I am the second peeler of the duo I have known Matt for half my life I was the foreign exchange student from Spain uncle at their high school and Cincinnati Ohio as well and my superpower is actually ignition and connection which I think then that makes us a pretty good combo since I can get things started and then Mike and make sure that they get finished that's great guys thank you so much we're so glad to have you here all right David you are up in an April you're on deck hello everybody I'm David Howard and you're from Kalamazoo I'm actually a close friend of Matt's ideas so it was wonderful to get an invitation and getting to know all of you I've come up through you know the CPG game I'm a young entrepreneur I've started many brands as far as distribution and been able to take a couple public and as far as a superpower goes I've most most likely is is understanding a room understanding people being able to motivate my own personal sales team and get the most out of people it's a great superpower David thank you man yeah all right so we have left us so you guys know we're here so April you're up and then we've got Philip Ken and Shay who we've not heard from so April why don't you go and then Philip you'll be on sure good morning good evening everyone delighted to be here I know many faces those of you who I don't will quickly discover that I'm here because of Jerry because I'm married to Jerry as well so I think I would want to be here in my own right but I do get to have I suppose the the lucky honor of saying other than Jerry I think I've seen more of his brain than anybody on the planet and where am I right now in Portland Oregon about 10 feet from Jerry I actually can see him over there so I'm really happy to be here I think my superpower this is quite funny listening to everyone else's because I think there were a couple that I could echo as well I'll take it a different direction and I'll give two one which I think Jerry would say is my super power and I never thought of it this way until we met and we met 13 years ago last Friday so we just celebrated the anniversary of our we sort of think our first the first time we met was almost as important if not more important than our actual wedding anniversary and Jerry would say that I have laser focus that if I decide a mountain needs to be moved I will look at that mountain and I will just you know figure out some way to move it so that's I think what he would say my superpower is and then just for fun I still can stand on my hands and walk on my hands and there was the point a few years ago where I realized that people my age are no longer standing and walking on our hands and it's a superpower I think because I like to frame it in the in the context of upside down perspective so when you go upside down you literally see the world upside down and you see the same things differently you say the same problems in a different way you see you know it's sort of just it really is quite helpful for how you see the world and how you see how things connect together so that would be I suppose the superpower at least my party trick right so glad to be here thank you April that's great I want you and Mike on my zombie apocalypse team for the laser focus and the grunt all right so I want all of you by the way that wasn't sorry about this particularly for finding food maybe so Phillip let's hear from you and then can you're on deck and then Shay we'll hear from you hey guys coming from Maine here my my zoom backdrop is is real this is off and in woods here here because I know Matt's and Hamilton I think we met when Matt spilled beer on me at Fenway Park but it's all a little it's all a little hazy there I'm professor of philosophy and religion at the University of Maine I also run a little Institute up here called Suguinland Institute where we do programs in alternative ed you might say you can check that out and then my third little venture is called Suguin tree dwellings where my wife and I have designed and built these these little tree houses in the woods of Maine and created sort of a little mini retreat center here where speaking of standing on your head to change perspective we we love the idea of the literal change of perspective that happens when people inhabit these tree dwellings that we've built so so I might give you a little sense of my superpowers here but I would similar to a lot of you I would say yeah I get a thrill out of connecting things that don't usually get connected whether those are people or ideas or people in places I love connecting old ideas to new situations new scenarios what else I think a lot about how individuals and groups navigate experiences of extreme transition I would say and particularly the role of ritual and aesthetic experience in navigating these kinds of these kinds of transitions so looking forward to the conversation here thanks awesome Phillips of two other things one I think I echo April and everyone when we asked you to send the link to the tree dwellings so that we can all see them because they are amazing I have seen them and you also forgot to mention that you used to run a grilled cheese food cart called lefties yeah yeah so he's Philip is a maker he's a doer he just makes things happen Phil we're really glad to have you here man thank you grilled cheese by day and eat you by night that was our slope yeah we're in slip eye um all right uh really happy to have you here Philip Ken you're up and then Shay we'll hear from you good morning everybody I'm Ken Homer I'm calling in from center of California I have known Jerry for I think 12 or 13 years we met around 0708 at a birthday party for our mutual friend Elizabeth Dodie Jerry was the first person ever showed me an iPhone I was like oh wow this is really cool so I have a lot of over the years lots of warm memories of being with Jerry in various contexts um my superpower uh I'm gonna say two one is helping groups be smarter together than they are as individuals and the other is weirding I have been a student of Michael Mead for a long time and I can't verify this through etymology online but Michael says the word weird is originally Welsh and it means to have to follow your weird is to have one foot in this world and one foot in the other world and so by balancing going back and forth between this world and the other world is how we heal the world so I'm weird like that quick question is there one other world oh there are many other worlds this is Celtic mythologies but uh yeah there I probably have feet I probably have more than two feet probably have many many different feet in many worlds and a few hands too and and um heads I'm not sure about that's great thank you Ken uh all right so uh for our guest Shae you're the last you're the last guest to introduce himself and then you'll Hank and Jerry and Matt and I'll do a little introduction sure um so hi everyone I'm Shae Farrenbach I'm here through Jerry of course um I'm a co-founder of Open EXO I started working with Selene back in 2015 starting many EXO related businesses and worked on strategy there but kind of found my niche in the community so I was sort of running the Open EXO community building it out um and I think I wouldn't I agree with a few of the comments I'm not sure that I have any real super powers but things that I'm good at and I think one of them is uh making people feel welcome in a community making them feel sort of comfortable and at home and connected and I think that's clearly a common theme here um I was working with the EXO which is all of this innovation disruption exponential technologies world and I left that after starting to question you know what does our world and our society really need um and so I'm calling you right now from Salt Spring Island which is a small island off the coast of Vancouver uh from a farm so I'm currently farming and getting really into the regenerative agriculture movement and uh really loving that so uh Philip you have trees I can see goats out of our window right now so you know there's quite an interesting dynamic for me having kind of done in a way a 180 and so I'm really glad to be in this conversation because I think that I've got a lot of interesting perspective and maybe can bring some some balance to how we think about our technological connected world thanks for having me thanks Shay thanks for joining I'm jealous of all of you um uh so there's a couple of collected next people so why don't we do the seeing folks and then Jerry you could do the last introduction and we'll get into it so um Chris Henry I know you're on the phone and you joined late you want to do a quick hello an introduction yeah hi guys um my name is Chris Henry I work closely with Matt and Hank and also sometimes Hamilton um I'm going to be taking some visual notes for you guys in the background that we'll be able to to show you a little later um I feel like my superpower is flexible since I was officially asked to do this maybe a little over half hour ago one of many superpowers Chris thank you uh Hank Hank also at Collective Next work pretty closely with you know yeah Chris Matt and you know Ham and been talking to Jerry about this too for for a couple months um as far as my superpower jeez I think I got a couple I think one is just uh you know I can be pretty relentless um so I don't really stop at things either um I think the other thing is just uh I think I have a lot of courage the only thing is that I think in the on the weakness category it can border line it can uh border on being a little reckless um with with some things um but I think lastly really my my real superpower is being able to kind of like stop and sit back and scan um when especially just kind of sitting on the outside and like help other people do that as well to kind of just just take intentional pauses um I'm I'm good at kind of feeling when and where and how to do that so awesome thanks Hank uh Matt quick introduction we're going to hear more from you I know but yeah real quick uh Matt say uh um uh I I guess I know myself and Jerry um and I think my superpower for people who know me is words words words words words words words words I can talk to anyone about big things and um love to do it and love to just expand my own view of the world and other people and help other people do the same so awesome thanks man nice to meet you great to have you here uh Jerry why don't you go and then I'll I'll wrap this part up and then we'll bridge to the uh to getting into it that sounds great um I'm just so happy to see everybody here it's really thrilling uh I'm Jerry Mikulski I'm in Portland Oregon about a dozen feet from April uh and uh my connection to being here is I think something we're going to get into in in a second here but I've had a long-standing frustration with how we meet how we make decisions our lack excuse me our lack of common memory all those kinds of things and um they're kind of playing out in a good way at this at this really spectacularly weird and dangerous moments so I just want to take a second while introducing myself to honor the people who are in the streets protesting and trying to figure out how to move society to a better place honor the people who have been hurt in this whole process honor the people who are not being heard part of a big piece of open global mind is open-mindedness and trying to make space for understanding people who normally don't have a seat at the table so that's a big piece of why we've invited you all here so you'll hear more about this in just a second as we try to unpack what this idea is great thanks Jerry and I for those of you who don't know me my name is Hamelton I am calling in from Boston um I mean I without sounding completely egocentric I'm the reason that all of you guys are here but hey actually you know what Peter is Peter van is and there's a lot more to that so I'm going to get in that story in a bit more because there's some good context to set it up I will say that my superpower I guess is is humor and that I really can use it to just sort of disarm some charge things I'm a facilitator by trade and so I use humor a lot Peter K as you said I think my super weakness is that I often think that I'm funnier than anybody else thinks that I am so you know that's how it comes back to bite me but that's the strength that I try to use and maybe we'll bring a little bit of that today so here we go guys quick house rules we say this at the top of every call you cannot apologize for anything that happens around you if your dog jumps in your lap if your daughter starts playing piano that just adds to the texture and character of this call so no apologizing use chat I don't have to say it because you guys are already doing that I would use that instead of raising your hand because I will be honest I have not mastered being a facilitator with the zoom hand raising thing but give it a go maybe it'll work but certainly use chat and then the last thing I would say is since there's so many of us if you could mute when you're not talking it might just help with some of the disruption but you guys are all zoom pros all right so let me start off with why we're here I'm going to switch back to gallery view which is a nice way I can see all your wonderful faces this the reason we're here it starts with it's it's boston it is 2014 god I should have written this down peter whenever cybos was in boston which I feel like was 2014 maybe 2015 peter was running a thing called inno tribe at cybos so he worked for swith cybos big banking 8 000 people conference networking 17 000 million dollars to pull it off and then part of that though was an inno tribe stage and it was inno tribe was something that was year-long but it came to one of its big moments was this cybos conference where peter as a curator was in charge of bringing new thinking stretching these very conservative bankers and sort of institutions into what's next where's fintech going how is thinking going to evolve in a way that's going to impact you and so he was trying to sort of and he was also trying to break the paradigm of content engagement at a very sort of pedestrian term like you go to a conference you see a speaker maybe there's a q and a you leave and it's that's not why you go there and he really wanted to break that paradigm he really wanted to get to something that was more participant led that was a more open-ended and not reductive that didn't leave people with one idea but with 10 ideas and and and he also wanted to make it very entertaining he wanted to make it more than just a talk but how do you engage people's full self right so they bring their emotional and their physical and their intellectual self to a talk or to some content so they can it can resonate on all three of those levels he was changing the game peter is a fascinating man and he started to use terms like sense-making and instigators like he had at this financial services conference he brought in musicians and artists and so we had a great relationship we did three inno tribes with peter where he would bring us in and we would help him create facilitation we would you know people like chris would graphic facilitate we'd bring a lot of creativity to it we were i said this to him the other day he was probably the perfect the best client i've ever had he was just so perfectly got us anyway he left swift we kept talking and we we fell into a monthly talk which is i is one of the highlights of my month every month and one day peter and i were talking and on hell like you we were talking about trust because it was big for me because i was just seeing a real lack of it and it felt like that was the the one barrier to getting into any conversations you know the zen meditation rooms they have that bar the zendo that you have to step over to to recognize that you're going into this meditation room trust was the zendo like no one could get past that thing so peter's like that's interesting we talked a little bit and then we talked about scribing and storytelling and how do you how do you carry information forward and peter said a friend of mine has this idea of story threading he's like huh that's interesting story threading he's like this guy yeah you should talk to him his name's jerry he has a lot more to say than just trust and story threading as you guys who all know so he set up a call and i i met jerry um and that was a great moment so that was probably that was right at the meant like march 16th i think that was the week when everything started to shut down interesting times jerry maybe maybe the week before um maybe my timings up but anyway i want to stop at this point and jerry i want you to go back a little bit in more in depth and sort of bring us back to you know you being a tech analyst not the full eight you know not the full april story i'm sure she could tell it but you know like sort of the highlights in the brain that brought you to where when you and i talked a spark was lit because then mark then matt came in so maybe you could catch us up a little bit that sounds great and i'll i'll i'll try to be brief so i was a tech industry trends analyst for a dozen years not a wall street analyst i can't i don't care what next quarter's numbers are but a trends analyst and i was advising a lot of large corporations for part of that journey part of that dozen years and then two weird things happened in that dozen years one is a little a little one of the four thousand odd software vendors that pitched me their services so that i might write about them so that they would get a little bit of spotlight had a mind mapping tool called the brain and they're at the brain dot com i'll put some links in the in the chat and i remember booking the appointment thinking or rolling my eyes a little bit thinking yeah right the brain whatever and then the moment the inventor opens his laptop sitting next to me his name is harlan and starts demoing and i'm like oh wait my brain works kind of like this so i wrote about them i invited them to our conference gave them a little spotlight and then started using the tool not realizing that 22 years later the links i've just sent you in the chat to my brain are to the same data file that i started 22 plus years ago so in december it'll be 23 years so i spent more than two decades curating one mind map where i put anything that's worth remembering now i don't put crap in there because i realized that it's kind of got a name space because i have to name every node in my brain is called a thought i have to name them and if i misspell them i won't find them again because it's not as clever as google is about you know sound decks and finding the spelled things so i have to curate this thing and bill asks in the thread how many nodes i'm at 425 thousand over 425 thousand nodes put in by me by hand over these 22 years connected by more than three quarters of a million links because i can i can link these nodes and i'll i'll do a little screen share later as appropriate um just to give you an idea of what it is anyway i'm the brain's lead user obviously but also their most frustrated user because i would love to be in an open environment where i could collaborate with other people doing the same thing instead what i end up doing is showing people what i've like hey look this is what i learned long ago and here's how i represent it and here are links to the original articles and so on and so forth and that's a neat conversation so i have a blog i call inside jerry's brain and you if you go to inside jerry's brain.com you can kind of sign up to to see those to be in those but really i was trying to figure out how might we improve conversation by having by having a lot of people curate context and having more people refer to it the way we take wikipedia for granted today and wikipedia is a lovely project it's a great open content open source thing i point to wikipedia all the time as an example and yet it's not allowed to express a point of view it has in fact a policy they developed because it's an encyclopedia called neutral point of view on purpose so how might we do that and then a whole bunch of other things kind of happen in between but um i also have produced a lot of events and have been in a lot of events and was really frustrated that that when i saw graphic facilitators some of them would do beautiful inspired work channeling what was being said in the room and writing it on huge sheets of paper on the wall that when they wrote something on the wall like racism in america it was ink on on paper or pastel on paper that was going to turn into a snapshot and either be lost in a pdf or something like that and when i connect something to racism in america i'm connecting it to everything i've figured out about it all the best articles and analyses and explanations and everything else i have a rich rich context on these issues so um i was frustrated because i think that we're stupider as a society because we don't have a shared memory that i call this we're an amnesic society um we're drowning in the flood because every six months it seems somebody invents a new tool let's say slack or uh snapchat or whatever or instagram and so every a lot of people adopt the new tool and then you have a new place to monitor more stuff to do and if you miss something as it went by it's lost in the flow and it doesn't become a part of your context so i ask people how do you remember good URLs right and most people like shrug and most people giggle and i say do you use the the bookmark feature in your browser and there's usually tortured laughter um and so i've had the good luck to have a tool that let me remember what i've seen that's worthwhile and curated into a context and i would love to see that grow into how more of us converse decide debate inform etc and and and the brain is one of many different kinds of visualizations and so part of the idea for open global mind was can we create a place where we can be open-minded but also where we can help bring together a lot of these tools on top of some some open distributed data that's trustworthy and can we also layer on top of that some forms of discourse that let us mend some of what's broken right now because we're suffering from a from sort of a denial of discourse attack worldwide that it's actually very hard to have conversations all over the place and these are important conversations we need to have so that's a big piece of the inspiration for open global mind is is these different streams one of them was hey i'm using this weirdo mind mapping tool and look look look look what it's enabled me to do it's changed my life i wish more of us could talk in that way another one is gosh when we're busy talking we don't remember stuff we can't refer back to it and it's there's not this context for us to work with and then and then more so let me pause there oh that's great and and you're you're teeing up sort of the the media conversation which is fantastic i would like to sort of go back to play a little bit of go back in history because while jerry was doing that matt was sort of you know unwittingly or unknowingly on his path towards this conversation as well and you know matt i've known you not as long as mike and olga but for quite some time and worked with you for 20 years but maybe and so there's a lot of things that i know this connects with you right you you founded collective next and a lot of these principles and the same desire but but maybe take take us back to you're an art school and you you you chose a type of art because you wanted to accomplish something the sort of sculpture and engaging communities and so and maybe i'm putting you on the spot there but there's something there that i think began this began it for you at least your story in my mind right so catch us up to what brought you when you i introduced you to jerry where you're like oh my god blah just so you know matt and jerry spoke it was supposed to be an hour long conversation went for three hours and matt's wife had to hang up the phone on them so as you can imagine anyway i'm talking too much matt tell us your story yeah i hamilton you nobody can talk as much maybe as i can and so i i'll i'll try to be brief but i was introduced to a concept when i was really young by the CEO of the company my dad worked for his name was mr flag and he was a pretty big influence and he would invite me over and think out loud with me right that's what he called it and we'd sit in his office and he'd bring up a topic topics probably too big for kids like you know religion and politics and all the places that we were always talked to avoid and i was always curious about understanding the world making sense of the world around me and also have sort of this creative spirit about about it and like most kids didn't think art was going to be a career went into school to be a scientist came out as an art major and my work transformed from things that i made into trying to set up processes that illuminate the world around you and i ended up going to the san francisco art institute and dropping out because the art world itself is a little too insular at least of this conversation i wanted the bigger conversation but the work was all about how do you set up processes that allow for the world and communities to start to expose themselves to each other so that they can collectively make sense out of what's what's going on um i had a little led lightboard in a small studio apartment on the streets of san francisco in the tender loin just kind of a little bit of a dodgy neighborhood if anyone there where people could put little slips of paper into the box and then i would type them in every night it was almost like think about it as an early version of twitter but the things that came out were everything that you've seen in in the world right where people were wishing putting their wishes there but people are also saying here's the best place to go and and and get free food and the best place to to find drugs and and other things of that nature um but that led me on this idea of really being an active participation participant in the change making process and collective next is all about you know for us helping our clients but i really see it as much bigger helping the world create what's next and so when hamilton introduced me to gerry i'm the opposite of gerry i haven't i'm not the kind of the log everything in my brain in that regard i'm i'm living on the sort of the dream space side of things always taking that stuff and creating those the future and i think that combination that alchemy that happened was quite remarkable and we've been talking twice a week now for a couple of hours and the ability to sustain a conversation is something that i think we've lost in in this world we have these sort of fragmented moments and so that's the part that's really attracting me is how do we collectively sense what's going on and then make sense of that and then use that as a platform to actually catalyze real change because i think that the problems that we're facing in this world are so complex and they're so intertwined there and you know we say you know what's going on with institutionalized racism in this country and actually globally is systemic well they're systemic in the same way that everything is systemic and how do you get your hands and heads around that and that's kind of my inspiration for you know being here and and i'm so happy to see so many different people on this call because i think we have a real shot at this um so let me pause there that's great man thank you um you know i'm just loving how everyone's using the chat and just how line i think it was you uh how just sort of awe inspiring this group is and just all the the sort of thoughtfulness and intelligence that's there so it's so excited and really want to hear from you guys so um so let me let me just sort of set up the conversation and you guys so 45 minutes and i think that was a great 45 minutes but now we really want to talk about it and you know i don't want this to be a linear conversation because it's it's every time we get on the phone like matt says it goes in all these different tangents and it's super exciting and i would love to have that same dynamic with all your genius here but you know when we talk about it the the conversation really revolves around nothing surprising the why right and and we sense it all you know the i'm sitting there reading about how the editor of the new york times resigned and all that led to that and i also think about like some beleaguered facebook moderator of my neighborhood group and they're both facing the same things right of like how do i make sense and what is right and what is wrong and it's overwhelming there's no way to do it so you know i feel like the why is really big at this need to be able to connect and think and this all the stuff that jerry said but then you say okay why but then we get into what what are we talking about here jerry talked about layers and that the you know there's a think space on top of it and there's a obviously a platform space so what are we talking about when we say this open global mind concept um you know and i'll be honest with you uh i don't know if any of you have read the books or seen the show the expanse which is a futuristic show where life happens on mars has been colonized and even further out and one of the things that that makes the whole expanse universe possible is this thing called an epstein drive which is they spend like two paragraphs on it that says there is this guy epstein who invented invented this thing that lets you travel at the speed of light and you didn't get sick and die and they're like oh okay and so that was it and not how not the physics not ever but basically it made interstellar stellar travel possible without ever explaining how so a little bit of what we have with this ogm still is this epstein drive we have we have this why we know what we want it to do but what it looks like is still very much undefined and that's why we brought you guys in this conversation so there there is a what this thing is uh there is a how it can be used you know jerry i don't know if you have the chance to see the video we have the subprime crisis of how something like this could be used to maybe avoid those types of things and so how what do you do with something we understand why you do it but how do you use it and then the big one is who and this again brings us back to you who who needs to be part of something like this something that is this collaborative that is this collective that's bigger than any one person or institution or organization who needs to run it who needs to build it who needs to govern it so we have a lot of ideas on that we want to share with you but this is where we start to value your input okay so we want to talk about sort of what and why and how and who and then where do we go from here uh because we want all of you involved in some whether you're just lurking whether you're just reading the digest maybe sending some notes or you're rolling up your sleeves and joining us on every call we'd love to have you involved and we really want to understand how do we best keep you guys involved moving forward um with this Epstein drive to destinations unknown so that's the conversation i'm going to stop talking here and i'm going to and i want to start back to you know jerry you talked about why and who this would be for um i want both of you guys to to go a little bit deeper into that because then you i think with why we would need it we could also get into how could how how could you envision people actually using this Epstein drive right where could value come from something like this uh and again i encourage everyone to use the chat and uh let's have a conversation jerry i'll you kick it off matt why don't you go after that um yeah it's um it's funny uh one of the conversations that's important right now is how to understand what's happening with black lives matter white privilege uh how how do we how how can we be good allies to what's happening on the streets right now and one of the ways to do that is to talk about systemic racism and the history that most people ignore and are unwilling to talk about um and how i'm i'm extremely intrigued in how to have that conversation in a way that people who are on the opposite side of the belief system around those things for me would listen and participate because if we're just talking to ourselves if we're talking to people who are convinced that systemic racism exists and has been extremely hard to exterminate uh or shift um that's one thing if we can manage to sort of dissolve some of those barriers and talk to other people so here i'm i'm actually a ogm is partly inspired by daryl davis uh who is a jazz musician a pianist who has a collection of some two or three hundred kkk robes in his garage because he started attending kkk meetings he started being very patient and entering conversation with people who very obviously were on the other side philosophically from him and his question to them was always how can you hate me if you don't even know me and he he really patiently sat and talked with them over time and that melted a lot of their resistance which is fabulous that that's kind of at the level of discourse and reaching out to the other and i have a belief that if we could organize our beliefs better and present them to one another we might be able to have that conversation in some kind of a semi-organized way and and i have a different belief which is that emotion and membership usually trump logic anyway and that even if i built a really great visual explanation that was very logical and well structured that would have trouble in the face of different sorts of belief systems right jerry i want to stop you yeah yeah loren give give voice to this and you're welcome to do the yeah i don't know i mean it seems like uh you know i went into this misinformation conference and the whole point of the conference is like how do we figure out what is the misinformation and tag it and make sure that people know that this is misinformation and no one cares it's like the best story wins so it's really like the art of storytelling it's not about like you know is this good information or bad information people don't care they go for the story that confirms their beliefs that's in their heads so i think you're on the right track jerry for sure with all the research i've done so i'm really interested in what other people think about this boundary between storytelling and logic like like how is that working is it is it that humans just are always going to be triggered by the story and the story is going to carry the day and we should forget about logic or is it that we're not accustomed to doing to logicking together charles charles yeah i had a tiny story just to put in the mix here which is just going back to this question or issue or label about race as a kind of container for a story or a set of stories or conversation i was part of i'm not going to name names here i was part of a group call actually celebrating a birthday of um african-american founder of a startup in the bay area and it was just kind of his inner circle people including a vc and an investor in the company and an advisor also happened to be african-american who had a quick story and maybe it wasn't one story it was maybe a pattern of repeatedly getting pulled over by police in his car and for example driving en route to the boardroom to have a meeting and the need to be jovial right away after this victimization um and then the phrase that jumped out is is your skin color is your currency so thank you over hey and um i'm gonna sort of just do something a little abrupt here philip i know that we're gonna lose you at the top of the hour because you this is a you don't have the time or we're gonna lose you soon and you know it's interesting we talk about news and stuff but then there's theology and religion that you talk about where sometimes some of those absolutes are not there right and where do you find the struggles and people being able to have productive conversations around some of the more spiritual stuff or do you yeah i mean i could delve into that directly but even a little more broadly um so my my first book project was about people who grow up in fundamentalist religious communities and find their way out and i wanted to focus in particular on those who found their way out through some kind of aesthetic experience where they didn't just reason their way out they didn't just have really well organized information presented to them but they had this a variety of of kinds of aesthetic experiences and then to figure out how that goes down what what are the factors what are what what types of contexts in which you might have an aesthetic experience can lead to this transformation of belief um so you know i threw out there a few of a few of my conclusions um were that if if an aesthetic experience humanizes someone that you previously labeled as untrustworthy or as an outsider then that had real potential to leverage you out of that incredibly fixed mindset that is fundamentalism um or if the aesthetic object could or the aesthetic experience could create some sense of a shared object of desire with someone who was previously labeled as an outsider or a heretic or someone not to be to be trusted then it could have this this incredible effect that transforming even the most entrenched kinds of beliefs and identities and i that i think that was another conclusion that you know the what we tend to think of as someone changing a belief was actually much more about changing an identity so i don't know i mean this wow either either everyone just you sent a shock through the computer that made everybody's hands come off their keyboard so they that really resonated with people yeah so yeah and and i'm judy i know your hands up so i want to see you but let's so you're next judy but let matt go finish what you're gonna say matt you say what you're gonna say i would just say that i i think it could be something if you had some kind of site some aggregator site whatever the the larger vision here is that took very seriously from from the outset and built right into the architecture an appreciation for the power of aesthetic experience of encounters with beauty and awe and wonder and that you know kind of like you were saying hamilton that in order to cross the threshold into this space you had to first go through an experience like this and aesthetic experience and encounter the beautiful the unconceptualizable that would be something that would be quite a contribution and i think would really boost the efficacy of of everything that you would encounter once you entered that space and just quickly i mean you know if you think about some of the whatever some of the aggregator sites out there and they're so utilitarian there's no sense of of valuing beauty or aesthetic experience whether that's reddit or wikipedia etc right and it's just pure utilitarian could you do something different by baking that in from the beginning yeah thanks matt what were you gonna say i i i was just gonna revisit like that first question of the of the why right and you know philip thank you for you know sharing i completely uh uh subscribe to it and when as we've been talking about um this platform we've been talking about that we don't only need think space but we need dream space we need that that creative space that aesthetic space maybe is the right way to talk about it um but at the end of the day we're already in that we're already doing what open global mind is about we're starting to share our perspectives we're starting to bring things together but if you go all the way back human beings because of our uniqueness of our species have been wrestling with issues the same issue since the very beginning and that's the relationship that we have with each other and the relationship that we have with the world around us in the universe that we exist in and at the scale that we have gotten we've gotten actually worse at those conversations right i mean you look at all of these indigenous practices and rituals and and things that used to bring us into this world in a more harmonious way that have been lost over over time i think you know the ultimate why for me is i believe that if we as a species don't solve for ourselves as human beings together at the scale where we can actually all become you know change our identities together that we're we won't be here for very much longer right in the grand scheme of things and so i think that's the that's the burning why is whatever the topic of the day is whatever the rage is about um we're not solving it we're sort of just moving on to the next you know the next thing and i think that's where um i hope that this goes is a is a platform not in the technical sense but in the true sense for human beings to wrestle with the kind of the deepest darkest secrets that that we have and and start to solve them together so um that's my why so that's great um thanks matt and jerry just a note let's make sure we publish the chat because there's like i think we were oh yeah writing like one of the best books ever written over here in the chat but um judy video to youtube and we'll post the chat and send it to everybody who's been on the call as well that's awesome um judy patient judy oh you're on mute though oh judy you're on mute judy you're still muted yeah there you go patience has never been described as one of my virtues in fact i was counseled once that i could at least manage my impatience which i found actually the most helpful thing anyone had ever said um but i'm struggling a little bit with the scope of how we're going to start this and i'm wondering if a concept that i like called dendritic which is sort of the continuous expansion out through multiple tendrils um is we're kind of talking about nucleation and multiple nucleation sites and if that sounds scientific it's because part of my background but the idea is how do you start an idea and how does the idea self propagate and then it comes back to this issue of community and belonging and self-esteem and self-worth which is very difficult to address given the diversity of experiences of all of the people so it seems to me that the brain is a wonderful approach cognitively but i don't know how we humanize it because essentially people only hear from people they feel connected to it's sort of like bitten in the wind if they don't feel a connection which is why they say storytelling is important share your personal story maybe there's a connection that will open a small window through which you can be heard there's a dimension of that that's part of humanity's strength but if it hasn't worked for people it becomes a barrier that's hard to surmount and so i don't have an answer i like april's comment about reaching children because children are less walled off and if we can get to families through their children that's a starting point but it almost feels like we need a massive social movement of people reaching other people and trying to genuinely start by trying to understand the other instead of representing yourself um i don't know i i want that's great and jerry same same shot up yeah yeah and then we'll get back to you go ahead sam i wanted to uh riff on what judith just said because i do um also want to riff on and i apologize because of my poor brain whoever spoke most about trust about you know that being so crucial on hell because uh each of you has probably been as i have been in multiple kinds of forums and conversations like this with different degrees of success i suspect but one of the things that actually comes up and this is called one of my smart people problems is that it does take time it does take time because even though trust can be transitive as we all kind of trust jerry and therefore that's why we're here it's still helpful to build it in a pair wise you know one-to-one basis and so i would if anything uh when i hear the word impatience my my trigger here is um that impatience could impede the normal evolution of some of that trust it takes a lot of one-to-ones breakouts you know discussions disagreements etc to really understand that and overcome some of that impatience so even in the gcc conversation where i've been for probably three years now we're just beginning to understand what agreements mean and that sounds trivial but it's really really deep what we actually explore that idea for three years and then i just want to also say one more thing that is the idea of story to me is a layer of navigation and presentation above another layer i call knowledge or you can call it the distributed knowledge repository this is an angle party and extended idea but that knowledge of how you tell a story or how you present something to a six year old and you would do it differently to a 16 year old and you would do it differently to jerry and you would do it differently to a phd student even though the fundamental knowledge base could be the same it could be gravity it could be emotions it could be union psychology whatever it could be but you would do it differently to each person and so if we actually take the time to understand who it is we're trying to reach what results we're trying to accomplish and how we want to establish the heart connection first before we get into the head i mean who somebody wiser than me said something like i don't care what you know until i know how much you care until we do that it's like you know we're just talking at this level and not really connecting down here so that was all triggered when i heard the word of patience sorry to go on so long that was great sam and it it's what you just figured for me and connected back to lauren is it it doesn't matter if i put a million facts in front you have to seek want to know the truth you have and if you don't want to know the truth it does not matter how many facts i put in front of you right so a big part of this is not only this is able to your point and dare i see your hand there is is not it's to go it's to teach people it's not just a platform where all the information is aggregated it's how do you actually think right how do you become a critical thinker how do you actually how do you not need censorship because you are your own sensor and you have the tools and the skills to know what's right um here go ahead so a couple things and partly i was waving goodbye to philip who just dropped off that drop off because he'd mentioned the chapati had to drop off but but i i do want to do it i want to do a little screen sharing here just to because a few things were just got said that really fit where we're trying to go so um hope you all can see my brain now and i've sent us to a thought called we are in a titanic battle over the narratives in our heads that we've always been in like this this is this is one of the ways that i express what civilization kind of is about is that there's always kind of warring factions over the scripts in our heads these are religions these are political parties these are philosophers these are everybody and so i have this this notion that's important to me that we have scripts running in our minds and we're we're unaware of most of the narratives that we have in our heads like most people don't know 80 percent of the scripts in their heads and one interesting question would be how do we externalize that how we how do we come more aware of the scripts that are in each of our heads just individually and then discuss them together that's an interesting thing um we were just talking about how ideas conquer the world and i've got a whole bunch of things in here about how ideas conquer the world extremist opinions help move the needle in their direction social change here's some successful memes but then i wanted to go back toward ogm and why we're here and so i've been collecting up in my brain what i call ogm neighbor communities each of these gitlab hypernote a guy who does interviews and calls them let's chat in fact i'll just click on this one there's a fellow i've not met him but i support him on patreon his name is ty wells and he sits down outside of conservative conventions and churches and malls and says hey i'd like to chat and then he asked he's a rhetorician so he asks people questions and sort of tries to understand what they're saying really interesting so i've been collecting a series of these neighbor communities all of which are doing ogm related work may not know about the other ones so partly um when i describe ogm in our in our early conversations i've been using ecological metaphors like open global mind is meant to be an estuary and an estuary is where freshwater meets salt it's an estuary is a very nutrition rich zone it's an innovation rich zone a lot of interesting things happen in estuaries there are breeding grounds and and so forth so how might we create a container that so ogm is not meant to be like a new platform the next link to enter facebook ogm is meant to be a a connecting place for a series of platforms and containers that are distributed where we can have the kinds of heartfelt connection that we've been talking about here that sam brought up that many of you have brought up because those are kind of primary that we're not we're not going to logic or science are we out of this until we understand each other and are willing to listen to any kind of logic or science and that requires accepting one another in ways that we're not not doing very much right now and i can go deep into it i think that people who are really smart about social psychology and personal psychology have weaponized trust and connectedness and are intentionally driving us apart because it wins political battles so um and then all of that if you can set that aside a little bit we would also like ogm to be a really fruitful place for companies to come in and do better decision-making themselves because they have a better memory because they have access to better data because maybe because they're in a trustworthy conversation with outside stakeholders they weren't talking to before and the platform allows them to have that conversation and instead of swooping in and doing something actually doing it in a considered way for example so so ogm at some point will host commercial projects and may also host new trades we mentioned earlier the idea of story threading i'd be thrilled if just like today if you wanted to hire a graphic facilitator or a graphic recorder i know a bunch of people you could go higher to do that what if in a couple years you could hire a story threader to bring in to a meeting and i haven't really explained the concept of story threading yet but i'm trying to give a couple different perspectives on the elephant because in in some sense we were all like blind people looking at the elephant and it looks like a rope it looks like a wall whatever it is it's kind of meant to be a syncretistic blend of a series of these things it's meant to be a place where people from different communities trying to solve the world's problems there's one a community called game b for example where they're like game a is broken what's game b there's transition towns there's hundreds of these communities can we offer something of value to them that helps move everybody toward better decisions better understanding of one another that's kind of the a piece of the crux here of what ogm would like to be so i want you guys to ask questions i have a bunch of questions but i've asked them already met met and jerry are tired of answering my question so and richard i was i'm glad you raised your hand because i knew i was going to see if we were keeping you awake out there um yeah i've got a bunch of fragmented thoughts um so i'm not sure they're gonna make too much sense so i mean i know most of you are basically americans and americans so obviously the pursuit of happiness means something significant to you guys um but we've had a conversation about um you're 19 everybody apologizing for the the pain that everybody's caused um you can't socialize pain everybody's pain is is individual to them and if you're sort of saying oh you know we caused you pain and then we caused you other other groups can identity groups can say well what about our pain why are you apologizing to their pain and you're not apologizing for our pain and and that's you know that that's significant i think we can we can socialize happiness we can socialize joy and we can socialize bliss but one of the big challenges is it's always socializing pain and and everybody's pain is individual to them and it divides so that that's sort of the first um thing that came into my head um the second thing weirdly is chloe ting's ab challenge which i don't know if anyone has seen chloe she's a girl a chinese australian girl who's been sending videos out helping people work out during lockdown um so i've i've been locked down way longer than you have in hong kong we started in my gym was closed for five months so i started us a jill does her videos yeah so um so i i i sort of started following her and and all of the people who've done her videos this is people from all over the world are pre-facing the videos we're saying that i'm just doing this because i'm i'm not fit but you know please be happy with your body please be happy with your life we love you all well you know you should be happier so there's this really nice message coming out of this mixed race girl in australia sort of really helping the world up with it it's really quite a powerful thing and then the final thing that i was thinking about so i don't know if anyone's read any of simon weston's stuff on critical leadership so he's arguing at the moment we're seeing two different leadership discourses rise the first one which is the one you're all talking about which he calls eco leadership or ecosystem leadership um which is this ability so i've just written some notes so i can remember so social purpose participant of organization and ecosystem mindset there is three components but at the same time you're getting a rebirth of scientific management within the the digital systems so you're actually getting you know what you're seeing is knowledge workers getting treated like the the manual workers were 120 years ago and that either you know that that's the battle we're fighting because if we actually start people treating people who are being paid to think like they can't think then how on earth are we going to get people to think critically again so there are the three things that have sort of been going through my very tired head while you've been talking about they were useful they're great they are they are fantastic i mean this is we just this is perfect i just uh i don't know if you raise your hand or not or if you were jazzy anything but i wanted to welcome great uh jill marie and i have james maybe jim where welcome guys uh we won't go through the full introduction but it's really great to have you here and please feel free to jump in or ask a question we're using chat that's a good way to use questions as well um i don't know i sort of want to call on you because i just know that like there's so there's so much genius that has not been spoken right now and so i i don't know uh and the chat is amazing it's it's almost to the point of like i wish i had two brains um peter van what are you thinking right now i'm gonna put you on the spot just because you're right there in my top right little brady bunch view uh it's also fragmented thoughts um so i i think we we have been discussing what's uh ann and panel tom calls in her systems of action in her book the vehicle which so ogm is the vehicle but what's what's the division so uh i really like the book that ann and john cd brown have written i'm really emerged in it um because it talks about uh i mean the title is designing for emergence in a white water world yeah and there are some tools there how you can create agency or agency or acting in the world with impact that's how i i read it so their big point is you can design for um you can design for action so it's not only about responses to something so we have been discussing responses to a number of things but you can design for certain responses so that's one fragmented thought so i think there is a lot there in especially in the chapter about systems of action or for action which gives a nice breakdown in vision what is the vehicle what is the concept what is the the network of supporting partners and so there are five five categories how you can organize a system for action because that's i think what we are trying to do just have to define for what to achieve what yeah so my uh suggestion in the for what goes into the direction of uh i wrote something down maybe it falls apart when i talk about it but i wrote a learning platform for skipped learning so what do i mean by skipped learning um in in cania they have launched a payment system called empeza and they didn't build on the existing infrastructure because there wasn't any so they basically built empeza payment system straight on top of a basic mobile phone system and it was a huge success so they just skipped uh something that everybody else went through so here we are discussing how can i present my ids to somebody else and how can i organize a conversation without somebody else who share with me their point of view and their contexts and so we understand each other better and maybe then something beautiful comes out out of out of that but what if you would design for uh skipped learning so instead of trying to discuss a or b that we teach learn people through a system of action how they can just jump to the next phase that would be um possibly interesting i wrote some other things like but i think it was mentioned already collective sense making uh or another i mean we are using too many difficult words if we want to sell it or present it to other people you have to use words like the wikipedia for i don't know what for for brains yeah hey matt you want to talk about sorry peter thank you so much and and maybe just there's a no matt has something i can sort of layer on obviously and i'm sure yes well it actually and then you had your hand up first i mean matt talking about the sensing and the sense making change maker we can get to but and would love your thoughts as well since we just talked about your book yeah so it was funny i had my hand up um before you even say anything you know but the the thing that seems has become one more apparent to me there's a joshua cooper reynolds has this great thing and joshua works for pissinger who's always part of pissinger's whole advisory think tank and and he talks about so for me the white water world is this notion that we're more hyper connected than ever before so all of our problems like this is entanglement from everything being connected covert wouldn't come across the sea even 30 years ago right so it's this hyper connectivity that's changed everything and reynolds says um you know that we something like we need to have the ability to look at any object and see the way in which this change by connection whether you're commanding an army or running a fortune 500 company planning a great work of art or even thinking about education it's this notion of seeing how everything is changed by connection and then john and i disaggregate seeing into two cognitive functions one being is to see for understanding in other words to see to literally see what i love about the brain is you're seeing entanglement you're seeing connections there are other very powerful tools so my work really is the intersection of architecture as a radically multidisciplinary practice complexity science so i love your beautiful estuary i use the eco-tone jerry um you know complexity science and all of these really powerful new tools we have so part of the scene for understanding is something like the brain but we have causal diagrams we have network analysis we have social data mine we have so many amazing tools to see connections that we could not see before but even more important than jerry held up the other book is or chapter 19 is that seeing is also about imagining and literally the imagination which is really really different than creativity it's an inter-cognitive process that happens in our brain in a split second and it's the way we put images together back to where we started images in our brain that come from how we see the world experiences we've had ways we put things together and how we bank it so it's based upon our stories and so this notion and we talk about how imagination is not just something for the the aesthetic in the sense of art experimentation but imagination is with us for every a moment of perception that we have as well and so how do we begin to create practices where people move themselves from using imagination every day to a more a more expansive a widened aperture around everything so i'm getting to really about the heart of the matter why i'm so fascinated by this project is if we can begin to build something that helps us see connections more and not just simple connections but but multiple layers of connections in a way that we can make sense of them not just as a grab bag and then if we can use it to collectively imagine and for imagining you have to be able to speculate on what is on things that you normally weren't and this is what we use to solve with problems this is what i'm doing studios around this stuff how do we collectively imagine better futures desirable futures not just default futures so how do we use stories to i love the stories that project our meaning on the world to understand how we see it but how do we collectively create speculative stories that is that desired object that someone else talked about right and trust often comes from going after the same desire even though you may not trust people yet in terms of their specifics but you trust the endeavor and it links people together i probably talked too much but for me that's everything so it's enough seeing how everything's changed that was great and thank you that was great uh sam you had your hand up and then lauren how about you go after sam one of the difficult things about these kind of group conversations is because as ideas pile up on the stack to go back to something previously said kind of disrupts the flow so i apologize for that right away but one of the things i was hoping we could see is if we're in the practice of exploring a tool or mechanism or platform or something in my experience it's been most helpful and most evolutionary to apply it at the same time that way you learn by application you actually evolve the capability through the application we're able to do and make impact you know hopefully sooner rather than later and clearly the impact of the times today is what you read on every social media platform today i bet you there's only two things that are in my 90 90 percent of my traffic is about two topics these days and even that first one which was big a couple weeks ago is less than the one that's just emerged in the last couple of weeks i guess obviously i'm referring to black lives matter and to uh covid so i'm hoping this is not controversial but i'm hoping that the next session or sometimes soon at least three of us can bring one of our very close uh colleagues you know in some of those communities i'd like to see uh that voice represented i'd like to see the indigenous voice represented i'd like to get those perspectives you know threaded into our stories here it's those idea number one the idea number two which eludes back to my i'll stop soon okay which eludes back to my previous note about it taking time to build trust is that we're each and i say this with no sarcasm no no sense of humor we're each extremely smart people we're each extremely well-meaning people we each probably are 150 percent overbooked already with our time because we've got so many ideas and so many good thoughts and we've you know studied this in depth so what i'm hoping we can do as a step towards that trust is to mutually learn about what each of us is already doing and how that is progressing and keep that you know kind of in mind as we explore what we could potentially be doing together because i think that exploring what we do together in my estimation takes much longer than we think we than we think it's going to take okay and then the third thing which is this this word i like to just introduce since it's just five seconds is the co-visioning word the co-visioning is what we're really trying to do with gcc the global challenges uh collaboration and so that is top you know one of the top six notions the other one by the way just as a teaser is coexistence and i'll leave the other four for later great thank you sam all right so lots of interest guys let me know but i'm so lauren and then matt and then charles it's and i know it is hard to keep a thread going but we'll do the best we can powering on let's hear let's hear it lauren well what i'm saying actually comes out of many conversations with sam so it's good that i'm just going after him and one of the things that sam told me is that what happens if we want this open global mind is uh in the past a bunch of technologists has gotten together and then the conversations are all about how do we do it what tech do we use we're doing this way no we do it that way and then no one ever actually builds anything so a completely opposite and maybe more effective way to start is actually to start building that kind of ad campaign before you have the tech and know how to do it you know create like an amazing vision of what it could be even if we're not there we don't have the tech to do it to focus on like amazing display so that people are like yes that is what we need that's great yep and that back to peter right what are you gonna do with it right and sell that yeah hamilton maybe yeah maybe i can jump in here because um and i love this conversation and the thing that gets me excited is it's reminiscent of some of the early feelings um and engagement that jerry and i were having and we have been thinking though about like how do you get this thing started and a lot of the commentary that you guys have made really fall into at least our current thinking and we you know at least my point of view here is that we need to be working on multiple front simultaneously and so if you think about the technical layer front our strategy right now and this is a i'd love to get some feedback here is let's take every available tool to us that exists today and just use them and appropriate them into our purpose and start to knit them knit them together right so the open global mind it already exists it just we haven't put name to it so that's that's one piece and then as we start using those things and we start connecting and we may discover um what the leaps of capability that we want to we want to put out there um going uh lauren to your comment i think there's an engagement layer here we have to start talking about this and dreaming about this and imagining it and writing our own version of fiction and bringing that to life in the world so that we get clear and other people get excited about that and so i think that there's something something there um we've talked also about um building on top of this a services layer so how do we if we don't put this into use we're not going to know what we need it for um and i'm in the process of right now selling uh ogm if you will to one of my clients um it's a great place it's a corporate client we can um hopefully provide them with um some value but also to help them build uh help use their interest and their resources to help build this you know build this capability and so i think there are different services we can build on top of this and you know ready to go as well as looking at maybe there are social problems we want to tackle but we may be light years ahead of being able to really do anything in that space more sophisticated than um other people are doing because we we're just not there yet with our with you know what this thing is and then i think we need you know this think dream space where we're where where there is the estuary where we are creating the estuary and what does that look like and and then the finally we've talked about the the governance the rules what are the what are the flocking rules that are going to allow us to interact with each other and can in in sort of get this going and i you know so as we thought about it that's kind of where we are in terms of different domains of thrust and jerry i know you want to jump in here but i do think we need to get what we're what we're inviting all of you in and maybe you're 150 percent capacitized and maybe want to be a lurker but what we really want to do is to start to connect the energies that we're already doing and take that hundred and fifty percent and not divert it from from that to some to this but to connect it so that we're all starting to build toward that co-vision space and i'm kind of interested see i'm in hearing more about that so jerry i know you want to layer in on this um yeah and um pretty much exactly what you're saying and i just want to share a place in my brain where i've taken notes about this these are and this there's too many questions here but the divide and conquer approach because this is a pretty large ambitious kind of vision to say hey let's let's try to bring together all these different projects but there are a lot of people who are doing really great work so let's let's get them more attention and let's let's enable them to sort of connect up so uh for example you know how can ogm be relevant and useful right now right what does ogm look like to the outside world what is our massive transformational purpose if we're going to do something like that but maybe also what is the plausible promise that attracts participants to ogm what like when linus torvalds creates linux he says hey everybody i'd like to make a version an open version of unix that runs on my pc and the plausible promise is anybody who comes in and collaborates to this will get to use it forever because i'm putting it under this canoe public license etc etc so what is our plausible promise but partly i'm interested in how can we dissolve into small sub conversations some of us are architects and builders and know a lot about technology and what to use others are actually really aware of somatic or philosophical or interactive spaces how can we go tackle some of these different kinds of issues and report back to each other in some pretty easy way to digest so that there's no way that all of us can actually be in all these conversations i'm wondering how i'm going to participate in as many of these conversations as need to happen so for example under philosophical questions ogm raises are a bunch of sub questions right how can the spirit and the business of ogm be in harmony how do we avoid ogm becoming a big debate circle how do we stay on you know how do we actually get things done how do we keep ogm as open as possible what does that mean because there will be some proprietary projects that happen in here or people who want to participate we don't want to be public about it or whatever how do we keep ogm from being overrun by idea peddlers how do we manage an electoral property in here because we're trying to be as open as possible these are all really interesting questions that will come up immediately because we are talking about how ideas have sex and how people curate those ideas and plant them in other people's heads right that that's a big piece of this and some of those ideas are rooted very very deeply so part of what i think and maybe i'm jumping ahead too far in hamilton to the now what part of it but i'd love to figure out what are the what are the big buckets of questions that have traction or interest here and how might we then convene into those conversations and report back to figure out what it is we are doing together so jerry i think that's great and i'm looking at time 24 minutes left i think i think let's do that or where do we go next could you guys and one of you did talk about the roles the early role definitions that we have started to come up with can i can i just i i had my hand up before and i just oh sorry charles yes sorry quickly share um you know sort of it's been repeatedly a theme and a pattern here about co-visioning um and i just want to check is it do i have um ability to screen share sure okay cool so when i hit the button it'll be fine um so in regard to tom atley and actually sam sam hans called to to this co-visioning um so tom atley wrote a blog i put the link sort of far up above in the chat here um i can show that for a moment also on the screen share it's called seeing together or co-vid so we're not seeing your screen yet i think uh i will i will i will just in a moment i'm just this my tiny preamble it's a it's a nano preamble to a nano screen share here i know time is precious um so just tom atley on the 21st of march put a blog um uh called co-vid or seeing together so it's even in the name of co-vid um and it's now fascinating so and all this collective sense making was also a theme and a pattern i'm hearing again and again i'm going to share in silence actually when i share tom's images there's three maps basically that we just received last week that's loren and and i at the kiko lab um and i'm not it's not my story so it's tom's story to come in hopefully directly or indirectly through us or whatever to talk about these things but it's the pact and i think just for the record because we're being recorded then you have to have them and he last thing um in my little preamble is he wants to share these freely he made that really clear it's open source there for us and for everyone um so let's uh see what we can do here um i'm gonna just even mute and i'm gonna screen share just for a tiny bit sorry it says it's disabled actually excuse me that may be uh make him a co-host maybe that's what it is okay hey uh ken sorry charles while you're setting up here can i know you're going to say goodbye any any just last thoughts before you leave last words of wisdom before we lose you um well one thank you it's been a pleasure to be here with everybody and i know some of you and i'm really looking forward to talking with others who i've just seen for the first time today um jerry knows this i'm really um always like how does the body fit into this what's the role of somatics because uh the third domain that is just starting to be recognized as legitimate domain of learning is the somatic context of the body our nervous systems are our learning and organizing uh a learning or using domain that is not very well integrated into the online world which tends to be very cognitive centric so you know how can we bring more somatic awareness into this um uh you know i look at somatic i look at gesture as a form of of communication so what are the appropriate gestures that we can integrate into open global mind um that will enhance that intelligence and i don't have any answers but i'm i'm really curious to explore that question so uh thanks that's amazing that's awesome thanks ken have a great day we'll see you next time cheers ken snow yeah just just quickly now i got i got tom's blog up here the links up in the chat somewhere i'm just kind of mute and i'm going to switch over there's three images i'm going to try to just let them be recorded and then i'll stop sharing thanks awesome and if i can just step in for a second and comment on what charles just shared um tom atley and the community season are really profound thinkers and doers on the topics we care about i just posted the uh the pattern language that he's uh he's helped create and here i'm reposting the link to the to the post he just showed but these diagrams we're seeing are the results of a whole bunch of work and thinking and compromise and research and so forth and it's really hard to just sit and absorb these and yet i think part of our objective here is how do how do we become permeable sort of sponges and then coral reef like connectors for these really great ideas and help them find their way to other places that don't know about these things that could use them in different ways so i think that when i show the ogm neighbor communities thought in my brain some of those are open source tool building communities some of those are things like tom atley's some of those are projects to try to save the world uh that are earnest and in some kind sometimes aiming a little bit wrong how do we connect absorb filter improve and then from all of that how do we build our own version of this of this platform so that we can express and story tell and remember things better with one another i think that's a piece of our goal here and quick just quick comment to tag on there in regard to tom atley um so his um there's kind of a parent container called the co-intelligence institute it's not super active as an entity but just as a concept framework co-intelligence and then one of my big takeaways from several years back when i connected with tom is the the critical distinction between collective intelligence and collective wisdom so really going for the wisdom is a very inspiring um sort of guiding principle for lord and me in the kiko lab so yeah that's great so i think i think it is time to um to get into where do we go from here and how can you guys contribute there's just and matt mentioned this i just want to talk about domains and member roles that and these again are our early thinking um we talked about the domains again the domains there's an engagement layer people can just sort of access ogm there's a service layer where people can actually use it to do stuff with consulting negotiation mediation whatever imagination oh actually there's a think dream space layer where there isn't an end goal but it's just a place you can a playground then there's the platform layer and then there's the governance layer of how do you the we call the super organism stewardship because that makes a cooler t-shirt than governance um so you know we think those are the layers there that need to be built and obviously there's a lot of connection there and in terms of roles um there's sort of five active roles that we see one is the architects of this whole thing i see all of this as architects in some way they're the ones who who hold the intent sacred and provide the leadership there is there the builders the makers the creators we really struggled with some lofty words and some simple words these are the people who create the content who develop the capabilities who build the system who make this what it is um there's some minders we'd like that word we played around with that the minders are the one who create curate connect and express knowledge and beliefs right there the the sort of the data the stocks if you will if you think of the stocks and flows analogy but who are the people that are filling the stocks and then two other the patreon the patrons we need people who are going to support this um and invest in this and the champions the advocates the ambassadors the people who are going to spread the word and just know about this and realize the importance of this in the world um the only other thing i'd say is that we we hope that we have this idea that there could be a fellow role that each of these roles that you could also have a fellow which just means that you're just really dedicating part of yourself and your time to it and you and it's part of your being ogm and that there's this sort of fellow's idea that we're talking about um matt jerry would you guys like to layer anything else onto that before we start talking about how people can play and where do we go from here matt you unmute it first so you get to go yeah go ahead j yeah i um all right well i love to hear you know some questions about these these roles but i think the we need a little bit of everything and we need people to show up the way that they can best show up um and get organized and i think that um the the most important thing right now are i think is at the level of that co-visioning architecture and we're using architecture and i think in a very um uh similar way that you use the term um and um but we also need the builders and and we need to be making things and pulling things together you know i might also suggest that um you know these people who are connecting and drawing in more people into this conversation um is going to be really important um and maybe just my final final reflection um is that i imagine that we're all actually going to have to change who we are as people how we process information how we take in things and and that's that's a that's a pretty audacious thing and i haven't really thought about that until this this call that it's going to be transformative even in the way that we as human beings just process and take in and make make sense of our of our world um yeah so let me pause yeah and i'll go answer a question that sam asked in the chat which is is ogm an income or revenue producing endeavor and there will be revenue streams involved in ogm of different kinds um one of them is this this fellows role that that we're talking about some fellowships involve a stipend at this point ogm has no budget but we'd like to create a bucket of money that would go to fellows so that as as people sort of get get made fellows in some sense because they've contributed an awful lot to ogm they could maybe make a living doing that they could you know offset their costs etc there will also be commercial projects living on top of ogm which may pay a fee for services by people who are trained in new functions uh or for using the platform they may also be inspired to donate some money into the the creation of ogm in some way so one of the big buckets of questions right now is what is our organizational structure what should it be should we be a public benefit corporation and if so organized in what way who has done this well before us what role models are out there to do this with how do we balance and there's a lot of open source projects where there's a foundation that holds the open source code and then there's a commercial entity that basically sells services against it that's interesting but i'm not sure we're exactly that so i think there's a super interesting conversation for how can we host commercial endeavors that people can make a living from as well as be incredibly open and donate the the the contents of our work this thing we're curating together into the the comments because one of our sort of grounding beliefs is the comments actually matters that that the metaphoric equivalent of fertile soil is really important to civilization ongoing and we'd like to create an ethos to do that and the more that that ethos in that way of seeing can be contagious to large multinationals that end up using the platform the better i mean that that's a piece of what might happen here is that we form a way of seeing in a way of working together around ideas and memory and analysis and storytelling and all of that that many people find useful and i like well damn we want to be more like that so i think that's a that's a piece of it sam does that yeah probably address your question and along those lines jerry i do think that we might need our own economy right we might need to think about that as how we exchange value amongst about intra membership as well as ways of creating services on the outside that we can draw in resources into that economy so sam please sam and then charles yeah this is definitely one of those questions that many organizations have been attempting to create with other communities struggle with as well and i say struggle because it's often you know not the most favorite thing to talk about but it is crucial um i do think that how we show up uh does depend on you know some of the answers to these questions and we show up i think willingly trying to share as much as possible because there's a belief here that we're going to create something good what i was working and i'm struggling with here now i'm using that word again is in the immediacy scale between this week this month this quarter this year this decade whatever i'm trying to figure out you know what is the place where we want to establish that co-visioning that action plan because and one of my brain farts around the new economy that we i think i at least would like to see is to invert this notion of transactions as the carrier of value i really think that's very artificial it's very transitory it's very meaningless except for you know some very predictable areas and so rather than transaction i'd rather think about valued connections and flow of goodwill of ideas of materials of you know care of etc okay so that we can actually have this web this network of value flow and i know other contexts use that word as well but i want to use it here just you know to say i want to have that notion so that we're not taking individual transactions assigning you know single numbers to them forgetting them going about our day i'd rather see these rich networks where something i do maybe here or something somebody else does over there 25 years ago gets recognized i mean from now gets recognized or even two weeks from now gets recognized and it wasn't apparent now but maybe it's apparent later and that that not be assigned the five dollars and it was assigned initially but that there's some kind of a dynamic web of value and flow that's what i'd like to see rather than saying okay if i've depleted my funds too bad i'm out on the street you know that's not the social fabric that i'd like to see so i don't know yet where to have that conversation in what temporal context over that's great thanks tan charles what were you going to say uh yeah a quick comment or kind of putting a question or even suggestion out there the question was was was just up just just before about sort of what type of entity you know whether it's public or private or maybe implying you know for profit nonprofit and i don't i'm not hearing sort of as i'm listening with like kind of macro meta years you know one one entity here or even necessarily one platform but that's another thing so maybe that would just indicate like multiple entities or a hybrid kind of you know weaving or inter twinkling of the nonprofit for profit um and definitely yes of course however many to new structures new economy currency value flow thanks over thank you so guys we're at eight minutes and i'm just going to say now we are past the point where we're not going to be able to hear from everybody i worry i worry um but i do want to spend the last eight minutes hearing from you i think that the team here the jerry and hank and matt and i are going to go back and sort of reach back out to you and figure out how you can continue to join but i just want feedback from you guys before we if you if we did one thing right as we start to push this off the dock what would it be based on your experience and peter k we have you know you've been doing some great chats i don't know if you want to say something on how shea you've been kevin i know you had a point around are we defining this problem we're trying to solve the problem so any bill i didn't say all you last thoughts just you know maybe efficiently and we can try to get as many in as possible uh on hell or did you just raise your hand nope off the mute on hell then shea one of the things that i i loved really attending the exo one i was hearing about that i don't that is a quote pandemic is a portal it's a gateway between one wall and the other we are at the mid very middle of the cross road and the open global mind can be a way to give light to cross that gateway in the right way and collective intelligence making the most of collective intelligence or collective wisdom is the way people and big corporations need to have light to determine what's going on in the future they are absolutely lost nowadays just thinking on the on the balance on the pnl on the disaster of of this uh of the consequence consequences of this of this covid outbreak but they need to be a combined before the pandemic they all were aware in my opinion in a cosmetic way about sustainable development goals or about global grand challenges now it's absolutely clear that they have to embrace those principles if they want to recreate not only their future but the future of all the humanity and open global mind can be as a as a as a dream tank the facilitator of of those new pathways i know you're hired you're a marketing person yes i am yes that's great thank you thank you that's awesome shay did you have your hand up yeah shay yeah just a quick comment um i don't know if this is the right moment for this or not um but you know you you three obviously have ideas about how people come and engage and flow through what you're trying to build here and this conversation has been incredibly fruitful you know we've touched all over the place but i'm going forward as a next step and maybe i'm the only one but you know maybe just ask around having some flows would be interesting just as uh to engage bring out the comments from people you know how does this flow work um how does this pull people in you know how does this create the network etc etc and that might be a good way to help create a little more structure in people's minds for um what uh what this thing is right because we we're talking platform we're talking about connector we're talking about all these things but it's it's it's very sort of esoteric at the moment it's nebulous it's an fc drive it totally is exactly right so just maybe having something and if it's just for conversation's sake just something on the screen to say okay what do we think about these flows that might be helpful that's great yeah and i think that's one part of that architecture architect thing that we need to do is we need help we need help quite honestly building those flows and you know part of our challenge is because this idea is so big um with the unlimited amount of time that we have it um we need more we need more horsepower um put in shape to this and we need to figure out how to collaborate at a at a bigger scale so i appreciate that idea of the flow Richard you had your hand up and then jay i don't know unless you're yeah i'm not just um because i'm only one in asia i just wanted to sort of bring a little slightly asian asian perspective to this so one of the things i think you'll be it's probably a tactic you can help use as well because over here we're we're looking at what's going on in europe and the states and for us it's that the complete collapse of i of a leadership system um you know because everything here was nowhere near other than the chinese the original chinese outbreak nothing here was as bad um so you so you've got a tactic there i think perhaps i said well okay yes we accept that and and here's a he's an alternative that that sort of is underneath the radar that we can play around with um but you've you've also got the over here again that the fact that there's what's happened in black lives matter given the hong kong protests again it's just delish it's made everything america's saying about the the east delegitimized i mean it really has because we've had we had eight months of protests and nothing compared to what you've had in two weeks so just tactically that's something to think about in terms of trying to get people on this side of the world to to listen to what you're trying to do great that's amazing perspective richard thank you for that um got some jazz hands there yeah kevin i i want to i don't want to put you on the spot but like i just would love to hear from you because you've been sort of putting some questions in here and just any sort of closing thoughts from you um yeah uh white dudes go last so that's why i haven't been talking so yes if at all um what else guys like who um any other thoughts or any other like questions i mean shei the idea of flows is like it's so right on right and i mean that's such a nice little gem of how we start thinking about structuring work and dialogues and conversations but what else guys april you went off mute just really briefly i mean it came up on um the chat much earlier but i brought up and others echoed it um just this notion of age and um i don't think it relates necessarily to this call today but like as we think about this generation generationally um it's less about business model structure it's more about how this could be um not just pitched but like the value we're really going after here where i think for many of us as adults um we are already i mean this is incredibly generative and all of us are excited about perhaps shifting our brains and how they work um that's going to be a much bigger lift for any of us um i don't think we can't do it i just think and we are obviously in positions of greater leadership power whatever it may be but how do we frame this in a way that i just look at this and think gosh if it if in a generation or less we could actually have a generational shift towards this and so i guess i just want to offer that up i i get that it's like adding more complexity to what is already an incredibly complex petri dish but it feels to me that that's where there would be that's where you'll see a tipping point reach that's where you'll see a kind of critical mass and and i do think there is hunger amongst younger individuals the younger generation whatever we want to call it um there's a hunger there and there's a waking up um that is happening in a way i don't think we've seen in quite some time so how do we how do we fold that in yeah i mean i this is a movement right not to get too grandiose right but it's more than a platform it's like we're really trying to just sort of change the way people think and live and interact and connect and make decisions and i don't know maybe we're shooting too high but i think it is a tool but i think it's got to be more than that right there's got to be a whole philosophy behind it and movement behind it jerry and matt we're april real quick because we're over time so real quick and then jerry matt so go ahead to that end i was just gonna say you know i hadn't thought about it in this way but when it comes to what we're designing design baking in the feedback younger feedback into the design itself this is a good time for that sorry and thank you all thank you um i want to address uh shay's question about flows in a in a couple ways which may actually not be answering her question i'm not sure but one really simple thing we have a google group conversational list for ogm uh anybody i'm gonna invite everybody to be on it that's a place where we can begin a flow i have this idea this is just me thinking through how this might work that we could then define a few clusters of things that need to be talked about like organizational structure uh membership what does this look like how does it work revenue models whatever that maybe that's a cluster and that that one might go off and and have its own conversation someplace that is visible to everybody else whoever wants to go check in there might be a bunch of techie geeks who want to go talk about distributed objects and self-sovereign identity and whatever other kinds of kinds of infrastructural topics might make sense they might have the conversation on stack exchange or on reddit where other people already doing these kinds of things are having those conversations and where they can sort of interact and involve with projects that are already solving some of those problems or or that conversation might be held on a highly fruitful list that's that's 80 done with some of those questions and and so for me it's it's like some we need a place to keep the map of which conversation is happening where but i'm not sure that we don't we we're gonna all drown if we try to be in all those conversations so let's find our way to those so the other part of the flow is i'm trying to design onto the ogm website if you go to opengoldmine.com there's a flexing website we sent you a link to but i'm trying to design a basically a sorting hat several of us like to borrow the harry potter notion of like you put on this hat and it tells you you're a slitherin or a griffin door or a hufflepuff like how do we help people find their way into a their role through their superpowers and b their interest areas and the the better and quicker we can do that while then creating these loops these flows that come back from each of the conversations into a place where we can say oh okay this is the current group and this is you know these are the burning questions and sorry hamilton i took so long but i want to explain this that's great makes sense and yes i think it does and i think there's definitely a huge follow-up from us lauren i know you have a point you're actually going to close this down because i know everyone has to go and i think this there may be other people who jump on this zoom call that we don't want to join but anyway close us down lauren and thank you guys so much before we hear from you lauren well i'm a person of action so i think that the easiest way to go forward and actually get something done is to do what eds superia and nathan did with the i think it's kind of like the end covet thing i think that's what it's called um and they just started a word document and people can uh they they basically did the titling which jerry has already done um all the basically jerry has all the the what's it called the the content page the uh what's it called like the first page in both of this everything contents table contents index yeah just sent out a word document with the table of contents and everyone can just upload um like references to who's doing that and that would be a great way to start this so part of what we're trying to solve for is the four million google spreadsheets and google docs that are already out there about cobit or about whatever um and what i hope is that in a few years i can migrate out of the brain and into an ogm platform that does what you just said but in a shared distributed way so let's put up some temporary documents that help us share things back and forth in particular group status you know conversational status but but i'm i'm trying to not have one long document that has a whole bunch of really nice links in it because that that that turns out to be like drowning material for me at least i don't know about anybody else so one of the flows that we'll have to create is is on this and i saw sam recommend a matter most there's something come in here um matter most is in slack replacement it's an open source slack yeah so um i think this is a good point to call this conversation i think what makes me excited is that there is energy to keep this going beyond this call um i would just say two things in closing um just on behalf of the ogm team thank you guys so so much like it is it is humbling that you guys came to this and that you really poured your soul into it like i feel it so thank you so much um back to patience judy this might not apply to you just kidding um give it have a little patience so that we can digest this that we can maybe start up some initial flow some initial clusters and just make it easy to re-engage you guys a lot to ponder um but we definitely definitely definitely definitely will re-engage you guys we want you to be a part of this and um i'm so excited so thank you guys yeah and now all you guys know each other so uh start connecting and let's go change the world awesome thank you thanks everyone stay healthy and happy everybody enjoy summer everyone thanks for assembling like such great people this is amazing how did you do this human we trust humans thanks Mike and Olga nice meeting you guys very you guys see you guys see you peter