103.9 FM, WOZO Radio, Knoxville. Ladies and gentlemen, Digital Freethought Radio Hour. Hello and welcome to the Digital Freethought Radio Hour on WOZO Radio, 103.9 LP FM right here at Knoxville, Tennessee. We're recording this on Sunday morning, October 3rd, 2021. I'm Larry Rhodes, our Doubter 5, and as usual, we have our co-host, Wombat, on the line with us. Hello, Wombat. It took a week of vacation, and now it's just going to be raining all week. Yeah, a lot of rain has come. But, you know, that's good. Our guests today are George Brown, the second and a half from Brooklyn. How are you? I'm good. And you're at Pirate Higgs, all the way from Canada. Hello. Digital Freethought Radio Hour is a talk radio show about atheism, free thought, rational thought, humanism and sciences. And conversely, we'll also talk about religions, religious faiths, God's holy books and superstition. Wombat, what are we going to be talking about today? So I wanted to talk about the wonderful joys of going out into fields and picking cherries. And I thought, oh, we also have an atheist podcast. So let's do that as well. We'll talk about cherry picking today. It's going to be a fun one, but before we go into the meat and potatoes of it, or the cherry, the stems and the pits, if you will. We'll throw it up to Rowan Dredd, Pirate Higgs for our own weekly vacation. Vacation? Invocation. Invocation. Oh, our noodley lord, grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change, the courage to change the things I can, and the noodle to know the difference. And that's a new one. I like that one a lot. Yeah, that's cool. I like that one a lot. I really do. Dredd, we're going to throw it up at you. How you been since last week, my friend? Not too bad. It's been kind of slow. I've been playing lots of World of Warcraft. So kind of catching up on my tunes. Not bad. Yeah. So, yeah. Your tunes. Is that music? No, my T-O-O-N-S, my characters. Okay. Okay. Okay. Very, very cool. I got a bunch of them and getting to know this new guild I'm in and doing some rating and all that kind of stuff. So you already have a Twitch channel set up. Do you ever stream your playing as well? I don't have a Twitch channel now. You should get a Twitch channel. I thought you live streamed. No. Okay. So you're live. I just live stream on YouTube. Okay. Listen, you can live stream on YouTube playing games as well. Like, hey, if you want more people, like there's a, that's a pretty good audience right there. Some of the concern, we can talk about that. I think it's kind of cool. Larry Rhodes. I did before I go. We have this. I don't know if I mentioned this before, but here in, in BC, we have an adopt a highway program. And so we figured out how to, so there's a difference between groups and individuals. If you're a group, like an official group, you actually have to take out insurance as a group to do volunteer work for this adopt highway program. Wow. So, yeah, I know. It's like 450 bucks a year. Yeah. You know, when you're not making any money, I mean, it's kind of hard to justify spending that kind of coin on, on insurance to do volunteer work. Yeah. If you're an individual, you don't have insurance. Exactly. So what we've, what we've done instead of doing it was the church of the flying spaghetti monster and crew. We just have a symbol of the flying spaghetti monster, you know, this fella and crew. So it's kind of like, it could be Smith and friends. So it qualifies under that sort of low level group, not an official group. So we got a two stretch, a two kilometer stretch of highway, just east of Grand Forks that is going to have a sign post on it with that symbol. It's got a whole bit. Oh, really? Yeah. Very nice. Interesting, interesting. Here in Tennessee, eastern Tennessee, Knoxville area, the rationalists of East Tennessee do that as well. They've had their sign vandalized a couple of times, destroyed once I think, but they keep at it. So who pays for insurance on the sign? Oh, it's a state sign. Yeah. So the state just replaces it or cleans it. Larry Rhodes, doubt or five, how you been? Oh, I'm fine. I took my motorcycle out again this week. It's been so beautiful. I'm taking it out two, three times. It's just really awesome. It has been really, really nice. I hope this rain spit that we're getting right now goes away pretty soon. I'd like to be able to go and travel a little bit this week. Sure. I want to check out the local national area, see new disc golf courses, just try some new food places. And if not, I don't care if I got to play in the rain.  I took the week off, so I'm just having some time to get my whole self-focused, clean up some of the mess that's behind me that you can see and enjoy some time with my cat. Yeah. George Brown, two and a half. How you been? Well, not so good as of yesterday because I decided to try to take a vacation from coffee. And you all know how devoted to good coffee I am. So yesterday, I didn't have any coffee. And man, was I a space cadet the whole day. Yeah. It was just shot. Are you having headaches? What kind of withdrawal can give you headaches? I didn't have headaches. I just was a space case for the entire day. I couldn't get anything done. So today I'm back at it. You're back at it? How fast did you wake back up? What's that? How fast did you wake back up? I can't remember. No, I didn't. I was, I mean, I just got up, you know. I slept very late. But the other thing I wanted to mention before we were talking last week about narcissistic personality disorder. And I just wanted to mention if anybody is interested in finding out more about this, which I recommend very highly, I want to recommend again a woman named Romani Dervisala. Wow, you're going to show that name.  That's R-A-M-A-N-I. And you can do the same thing on whatever search engine you have. She's an especially good, clear explainer of cluster B personality disorders. And a lot about the way these people affect the rest of us. She's wonderful at it. So again, Dr. Romani R-A-M-A-N-I. And if you're of a more of a religious persuasion, George Simon, both of these people are psychologists. They're coming at it from different angles. I love it. I love it. What? I can't wait to read through those reports and cherry pick the information that already lines up with my view on reality. Motions. Yes. Speaking of which, I want to talk about the idea of cherry picking. And before we go into it, maybe we should talk about what we mean by cherry picking before we go into like a full on discussion about it. And so when I say cherry picking, we'll do a quick round table. But when I say cherry picking, I mean letting your confirmation bias drive you towards the information you want to pay attention to and the ones that you don't want to pay attention to. And so like you have a little filter that says I have a established conclusion on something and I'm only interested in the information that supports that conclusion. And anything else? I will happily ignore dread part. What do you think cherry picking is? Yeah, pretty much the same thing. You know, especially if you're doing internet searches, you tend to end up going down rabbit holes if you're really if you've really bought into an idea or a conclusion that you've come to. You tend to confirm that with the searches that you do and leave out the disconfirming information. So why is my girlfriend so mean? I'll give you the only mean. The Google bubble. Yeah, that's right. Larry, sorry. The Google bubble can reinforce that as well. I mean, even without you thinking about it, it will show you stuff that it knows that you're interested in and not show you stuff that you're not. And the scary thing is it's not just Google. It's what news source you prefer to listen to. It's brands you prefer to buy from. It's you know, it's what form of news or like radio TV, whatever any way you choose to inform yourself box CNN has a slant of bias to it and you got to be aware of that. You got to be aware of that. George Brown, the two and a half. What do you what do you how do you feel about cherry picking? Do you have a definition for it about cherry picking? Yeah. Oh boy. I don't have an entry point on that. Except, you know, I don't use Google as a search engine. There are alternatives. You don't have to use Google to do your search. All I just meant any any search engine that pays attention to what you search for and then offers you the same. Well, start page does not and duck duck go does not. But I mean, you are free from surveillance on those search engines until you land on the page you're looking for. And that's a whole other story. But on the top, how can you be sure? Are you just cherry picking that? Yeah. Because of what they say about themselves. George, I want to hear what you think about cherry picking. What do you think it is? What do I think it is? Well, it's it's like what people who said ahead of me, you know, it's it's squeezing the facts through the filter of your own calendar.  I like it. I like it. I like that. And facts out and only filter and I, you know, I press, I have to confess that I think that we all do it. I think I do it. Of course. Yeah. And so while we know we all do it, I think that's facts. I think it's also be I think it's two parts. One, we got to be aware that we do it. And two, we need to have an appreciation for a standard of evidence that's high enough to call us out when we do it ourselves and be willing and maybe a third point, be willing to admit when we're not wrong and acquiesce towards the reality or comport towards reality, right? But here's an interesting example. I want to throw this out in America. It's this really nice country. Why I say America, I mean North America, United States of America, right? Even more specifically, United States, right? There's a government facility called the Pentagon or an establishment called the Pentagon and they hold documents sometimes for long periods of time to make sure that there's not public outcry on particular things. So when police write reports that people have seen something in the IR, Pentagon will be like, we're going to take this report and we're going to make it classified for a period of time, 20 years or so. And so what happened was a large batch of UFO sightings was finally released by the Pentagon. This was back in June, so it's probably not too recent, but we've had time to now be aware that the report was out because the Pentagon is going to make an announcement about stuff like that. And it's sort of like filtered through the Internet and people who are enthusiasts about UFOs and alien sightings and extraterrestrial life visiting Earth have used that report as fuel to say, aha, the government was hiding something. Here's the proof of it that confirms that everything we've been saying about aliens is true. However, the reports themselves. I'll go ahead, Larry. Go ahead. I wanted you to finish that thought. OK, but the reports themselves and which we all have access to and we can even provide a link in the comment descriptions. Even from the title itself basically says, yeah, it's mostly just people saying lights in the air. There's no there's no conclusive information among all these reports. It's still a very nebulous topic. We're not saying no. We're not saying yes. It's just here's a bunch of people saying they saw the end. Right. Larry. Well, people don't realize that there are more than one definition for a word, you know, like faith or something. And but certain people will read that report and every single time they see the word UFO or the initials, they'll think aliens. Yeah. And it's not aliens. It's unidentified flying objects. It could be anything from a weather balloon to a weather phenomenon or a reflected light. It could be. But it could be aliens, Larry. Uh-oh. Everyone froze. Aliens. Per se. They mean what it says. Unidentified flying objects. Sure. Dredd. I got the northern lights. Sorry. I see lights in the sky all the time. Yeah. And they also call he has Christmas lights over his. That's right. The. Yeah. I guess that's important to point out. They also call them UAPs unknown aerial phenomenon. Huh. They've got that alternate name. I had heard that. I've not heard that. Well, because it's not necessary because flying object. Is a misnomer in the sense that. It's an unknown aerial phenomenon. Sure. Like other things other than than flying really flies much as as well. Dredd. That's a very good point. I didn't know about that distinction. Well, you think about Venus. Venus has been missing identified throughout. You know, all known time essentially is at least 1945. Yeah. Yeah. There you go. George. You want to make a comment? Yeah. We have a senator here in the United States. Joe Manchin. I think he's an unidentified flying object. Okay. Oh. That's a good picture. Although. Although. In Yiddish there's a wonderful. There's a wonderful there's a wonderful term in Yiddish. It's love. Mench. Which means airman. Airman. Okay. Yeah. It's nice. Thanks for sharing that. I have seen. I have. So I've gone jogging before and I have looked up into the air and I have seen like a ring of lights in a blue sky. Like I've seen things that I will qualify as like an unidentified aerial phenomenon. And I will look at that thing.  That's not a UFO. But I see. Terror. That's not a UFO. But I still don't know what it is. And it's probably just so bright outside that I can't see an outline of something. But it is like a static ring of lights in the air.  And my brain just goes like I really would like to know what it is. But until then I'm happy for it not being. I won't jump to the conclusion of aliens. But I'm just like it's so interesting that I could easily do that. And yet we're all seeing the same thing. And I can see the mania sort of elite towards it. In terms of cherry picking in terms of cherry picking. I could definitely say that if I wanted to believe in aliens I could use that as an excuse. And then go on Google and be like I found ring of lights aliens. And then Google's like oh he's he put these words together. Just show him alien stuff and ring of lights. And then throw in some dog food commercials because we need to sell some dog food. Same thing too. And that's how in my head people fall into like deeper and deeper circles because they'll start connecting with other people who also believe that rings of lights in the air are aliens. And maybe they all have a shared love of dog food. So you know there are the convention and more money keeps going around. Dredd what do you think? You know sometimes that cherry picking too is combined with you know the incredulity. You know argument from incredulity. Yes. Yes. How could it be you know how could it be venous. I mean it was moving too fast. It's too bright. You know it's blah blah blah. There's no way I could be wrong or how you have to prove that I'm wrong before I'm even willing to consider any other options. This is like there's that's the worst place to be in. The default option is not you are right. The default option is you should keep working harder to figure out why you are right. Not. I'm right until I'm proven wrong. It's like why are you right. George. But. Well. Following up on what Dredd Pirat just said I go out walking sometimes at night. And it's like I was looking up in the sky and I saw this small constellation and I thought what's that. Well it when I look with my right eye it's one star. I've got I've got internal reflections in my left eye. You know I'm an old guy. I mean stuff happens when you're old. I like you know my left eye it's a constellation and it's really cool. Too bad it's not real. So in the event of me not worrying about this any longer I actually did look it up on Google to figure out what the ring of lights was but I didn't put alien or anything behind it and it turns out there's a novel community of people who send up weather balloons up into the air and the weather balloons are ribbed and they have sort of like a iridescent surface on the outside such that each rib has a little reflection of light if there's a sun clear day and I said I saw this ring of light on a clear day I had no idea what it was it's a weather balloon that went up into the air and each of those little ribs have a tiny little sparkle sunspot on them and I can't see the outline of the balloon because it's too far away but I can see the bright circle of lights. There it is that's what I saw but I had to look at to look it up unbiasedly to figure that out and whether or not it would be suited or something like that but at least my Occam's razor so let's see if my following Occam's razor you have a least number of assumptions makes more valid argument most of the time let's see I would say yeah that's fair I was fair I'm not assuming aliens have to exist we already know whether balloons do exist I find that's the most simplest and least assumptive approach so yeah I would also say flames only require mundane evidence and we already know whether balloons exist sunlight exists we can put these two together and I can make a better argument for it being just a whether balloon on a sunny day than I could be for an alien force visiting us from another galaxy right? I love stuff like that I love stuff like that let's see Larry you want to talk about that picture in the background that you got oh my my buddy my buddy there you go okay there it is nice 1943 I think during World War Two when a UFO was reported off the west coast California specifically near Los Angeles and it it showed up and we've spotted it we've shown lights on it spotlights like we would if it was an air raid we shelled it with artillery and followed it for wow two hours down the coast never hurting it at all and finally just flew away I mean if you've got a minute and you're interested in this kind of stuff do a search for the battle of Los Angeles and I think it was 1943 but it it makes for good reading anyway so there is something to be said about pressure to come to a conclusion right? like if you're in a middle of a war time and you may need to use cherry picking as a survival mechanism I'm not saying cherry picking so here's my take cherry picking isn't always bad and there seems to exist almost out of an evolutionary out of like a natural need to quickly come to a conclusion that can help to save you if there's a threat and help you understand the environment that you're in but it doesn't necessarily mean it's the most accurate way to come to a conclusion and go ahead sorry yeah I was going to say that reminds me of Daniel fast and slow he wrote a book about that and there's the style A and style B of thinking the style A being arriving at quick conclusions about your environment in order to you know save yourself from I mean if you hear a rustle in the trees or in the grasses assume it's a tiger because if you assume it's the wind well guess what you're less likely to toast less likely to survive that one if it is a tiger so absolutely true George um yeah what do any of us ever search on Google and click that button that says I'm feeling lucky yes sometimes I do it occasionally yeah sometimes I do I've never gotten lucky what happens when you do that you know if I use it it sends you to the very top search sends you to the very top search it sends you automatically to the very very top search it is a funny button but I haven't clicked it in years but I have clicked that button a couple of times but I would also say on on Dread Pirates note um so you have this idea where you have slow thinking which is what we're getting good at now as a society like we are being rational we're being with our you know approach to a lot of problems and being more sensitive to a lot of things and it takes a lot of consideration that's way more complicated but we tend to come out to conclusions that help a great proportion of society right but then we also have this fast thinking which is really really good in terms of like okay we just got to stay alive who cares what needs to be damaged or what needs to be killed it's whatever is the most useful thing just move forward maybe not the best way to control society on a digitalistic basis to at least you know maintain life for a period of time I just want to make one one last thing the evolution of it seems to be that we've had that quick thinking pathway a lot longer than the long the slower pathway thinking and because of that it's still very persuasive to us to do things in the quick thinking fashion including cherry picking mm-hmm well it in it forms the flight or fight it's if you've got you know if your environment dictates that you have to think quick you're going to be looking out for yourself and making decisions based on not reflection right and long considered thought of the facts and evidence and all the rest you're just going to go with what you think is absolutely going to save your skin and so this is why I like escape rooms I don't know if you've ever played an escape room game okay they may have they have some in Tennessee as well but essentially you and a group of friends and maybe some strangers who will join your group or a different group of friends will team up and be blindfolded and be brought to a room where there are puzzles but the theme of the room is like hey you're going to die in a half hour if you don't figure out the main puzzle to solve in this room and they take the blindfolds off and you're like in some weird dungeon or like a medical area or like some museum like saw it's a lot like saw and you're like oh wow everyone's like you know there's like roulette tables here but they all have like weird pictograms on them and you have to figure out where's the pattern what are we trying to figure out here and you are pressured to figure out something as soon as possible and there are obvious threats all around you in the sense of there's timers on the wall there's an announcer saying you got five minutes left I cut fingers off and I'm going to come after you if you don't solve this in time your blood is you know highly pressurized you're freaking out but you have to think slowly and calmly to deduce all of these problems and you have to communicate with people we didn't pass either don't worry but you have to communicate with the people in your team so that everyone can split up properly and start solving their areas in the room and you have to like work together and be like I saw this does anyone have a key because I need a key because I just opened it up and there's a key here it's like I have a key I have a red key and a green key I have a key too I have a blue key because your brain is like fight, flight run or fight and the other side is like we have to figure out how many cities there are in Italy and it just hey what's up Tred what's up well I was going to say it's it's kind of like firefighting too the number one cause the number one cause of panic is not having a plan and that's why you know firefighters constantly are rehearsing and practicing their techniques and whatnot so that when it comes to a situation where you're in you know faced with burning building and you're going to have to do you know an interior search you remain calm because you have a plan and you've practiced it and a lot of it then becomes sort of muscle memory and all that sort of thing so that keeps your keeps your panic button in your back pocket so to speak I love it number one cause of panic is not having a plan and I feel like that is the number one way to probably stop cherry picking if you just plan out your means of understanding information or your epistemology ahead of time and then you'll have a much better way certainly like establishing like you said establishing a standard of evidence yes if you don't have a standard and you're just willy nilly well then you'll take any of that and comes but if you firmly establish in your own mind that you subject evidence to a certain amount of rigor then you can at least have a reliable method for determining what's true and what's not true I love it I love it Larry I think we're at the bottom of the half about time isn't it nice this is the digital free thought radio hour at WOZO radio 103.9 LP FM here in Knoxville, Tennessee and we'll be right back after this short break 103.9 FM WOZO radio Knoxville Hello and welcome back to the second half of the digital free thought radio hour I'm doubter five and we're at WOZO radio 103.9 LP FM here in Knoxville, Tennessee today is Sunday morning October 3rd and let's talk for a second about the 8th society of Knoxville ASK was founded in 9 sorry 2002 and we're in 19th year ASK has over a thousand members and we have weekly zoom meetings during covid but we're again meeting in person downtown Tuesday evenings at Barley's Taproom Pizzeria in Knoxville's old city out on the patio so if it's Tuesday evening you're off work come on down and meet some other atheists you can also find us online on facebook meetup.com or KnoxvilleAtheist.org just look for Atheist society of Knoxville just as simple by the way if you don't live in Knoxville you should still pick us up and do a search for an atheist group in your town don't find one Sar- Don that's right where do we want to pick up? we're finishing up our talk on cherry picking today and I wanted to bring up a new um side topic Boudreau sent us a article actually sent us a citation to a scientific or scientific journal it's what they're called um and what they do is this journal is in toxicology and they issued a report by a guy who was anti-vax basically anti-vaccination of children and he said hey you know most people get vaccines are old or I'm sorry most people get sick from covid are old therefore we shouldn't vaccinate children because why would we even bother vaccinating children and the report looks like someone did have a really good vision and when they don't tell you what is happening there is no way to vaccinate children or people who vaccinate children and thatế with And those are subject to whether or not the editor of that journal would like to publish them or not. And they tend to be more provocative to inspire conversation or sell more journals at the end of the day. Whereas you also have areas for scholarly articles, reviews and reports, which are peer reviewed by other scientists before they even get to the editor. And then that paper is a thoroughly investigated and thoroughly vested scientific article. And the scientifically article, the scientifically weighed articles are not the same thing as the opinion pieces. Yet they are published in the same journals. And the problem with that is that people will look through a journal to find a well established journal to find the opinion piece that matches their cookie conclusion and then point at science to say, and it's backed by science when it's not. It's just an opinion piece that's in a scientific journal. And that's your opinion. I think it's kind of dangerous. George, you have thoughts on that? Take yourself off mute. Well, actually, I wanted to go back to something that Dred Pirin said at the end of the last half hour about firefighters. I like that. He said, you have to have a plan.  And I thought, well, where do firefighters get that plan? And I realized they rehearse. They practice on stuff, you know. And one of the things that I notice when I go around from place to place is those little practice structures that firefighters use. The little villages that they have that they can set fires and then practice putting them out. Yeah. What are those structures called, Dred Pirin? Do you know?  Yeah. We've got one. We set one up here in Grand Forks with a bunch of sea cans. And, you know, so we've got sea cans stacked on each other. We have. What's a sea can? What's a sea can? I think we're getting a little off topic. I want to just make sure that we're focused right now on picking it and we can get back to conversation later. So the main thing. Let me get back to what I was just going to read the topic, which was, hey, in science, there are people who publish articles that some of them can be opinion pieces and some are not opinion pieces, but people will cherry pick from scholarly articles and then use that as a claim that science supports their misinterpreted conclusion. And that can be very, very dangerous on the number of fronts. George, would you like to talk about the topic? Okay. Well, again, I want to finish what I was saying before, which is that perhaps we need, like the firefighters, work with these practice structures that we need to practice free thought, free thinking to try to catch ourselves in cherry picking in our own minds. One of the things that I've seen online that I'm sure you all have seen too is the outsider test of faith that I think is a good example of that to step out of your little cocoon of information. Consider your religion from the outside, like from another religious view or from an atheist view. And try to pick it apart, try to find what's real, what's not real, what's evidential, what you can support from outside the religion before you just throw all of your faith toward those answers and just accept them. Yeah. So what's that called again? The OTF. The outsider test of faith. Dred, did you want to make a comment? No. Okay. Dred, I'm going to ask you a question. Sure. A theoretical question on sociocratic examination on an and something I've maybe heard that you've maybe heard as well is someone saying science or science agrees with this conclusion that I have. That's clearly not scientific. Right? It's like, well, science says there's no evolution. And when I ask what do you mean by that? What they typically say is, well, there's a lot of scientists who agree that evolution doesn't actually exist. And in my head, that's the the idea of like, ah, scientists are not the same thing as science as right. authority. It's an argument from the computing authority where you cherry picked it to be. Right, right, right. But they still want all the gravitas of saying science, but they don't want any of the actual conclusions from the process. Hey, what's up? We're going to separate the method from the people who practice it, right? From the opinions and the people, exactly. Correct. What I like to say is that when religious scientists are doing science, they're not doing religion and vice versa. When they're doing a religion, they're not doing science. Unless you work for Ken Ham. Even then, I would say it's still done. That's not science. If they're doing it, you know, that's the arts and crafts project that just control it. Ken Ham, I'm lost. It's okay. It's okay. I don't want it. We don't have to talk about that. The less we know about them, the better. That's my point. Google your own rabbit holes on that, dude. But I would also say this. I agree with what you said Larry. I think we do have these things called religious sciences. And often, so way back when the only way you could get funding to do science was by grouping up with a church who would fund your scientific endeavors. As long as it supported what the church wanted, right Larry?   Hallelujah. That was a perfect example of that. Oh, there's so many burnouts. Yeah. Punnett was actually the stake. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Like there are so many great scientists back in the day who were advent or essentially adjuncts of a church. It's the pioneers in science who went against what the church was reporting that gave us some of the greatest breakthroughs. And even those moments were such a struggle on their part because they're like, maybe Earth isn't the center of the universe. We're going to put you in jail for the rest of your life. So yeah, but I still feel like that's the way it is. Put me in job only a little on 40 anyways. Like super way back when I don't care. I don't care. I'm like 37. It's all good. Don't worry about it. But I do feel like that is, I would think we should, how do I put it? Honor the perseverance of people who help to pursue scientific interest and truth. And whether or not those people have people at large have opinions doesn't necessarily influence the process of science, which is combating ideas and opinions and seeing which floats the top. And I feel like that's always the best pursuit. So when people point out like one article that agrees with them, I always like to see what are the other articles saying about that article? Or like what, what are the citations in that article and how do people take those in the grand scheme of things? I would say science is not looking at one journal article and being like, huh, this agrees with my point. Therefore it's true. It's a process where we have records and we investigate those records and we always ask questions and we never accept anything is absolutely true. But we're always willing to say, Hey, does this meet the standard of evidence for the claim or not? And I think that's something we should always have. George, what's up? Well, I was just thinking we live in a democracy and you do two dread pirate in Canada. And I think that the success of a democracy to me depends on the ability of the participants in that democracy to think clearly. And so we think that we are the people who do the clear thinking. And I agree with myself. So there, but how do we get, how do we convince the rest of the guys to come along with us? That's you've asked this question a number of times, but what's your answer that you have as the best answer? I don't have an answer. I'm asking you guys. I think the question is good enough as an answer. I think in my head, if you're asking people, how can you get to us? How can you come to a correct conclusion better? That is the question that you need to be asking, even if you're making statements or if you're questioning statements, because that's how you get better at knowing true things and false things is by questioning. How do I get care in the first place, I guess. Yeah. And that's often a question that's asked of an interlocutor in Socratic examination, interlocutor being your interview partner, is how do you arrive at your truth? What is the method by which you examine the things that you use to support your beliefs? And you know, the weirdest thing I have is for me, I find, and this is going to be the part where everyone's going to cherry pick this clip for me and be like, aha, Taro doesn't care about the truth. But I find the truth to be overrated if it's nominal to what can be useful and understood within a particular model. So like in my head, if I can demonstrate something very well, and I'm off by like 0.0001% and the truth is that 0.0001% away, I'm fine with not knowing the absolute truth. I'm totally happy with this model if it works. And a good example of that, Google Maps used to be like two years ago based on the Flat Earth model because you don't have to, you know, estimate the curvature of the earth if you're just driving from here to McDonald's, right? It's just a straight road and it's 2.4 miles away. Maybe it's 2.47015 miles away because if you include the curvature, it's a little longer. It's like, I don't care dude, just tell me 2.4 miles and how long it'll take for me to drive there. About four minutes. Fantastic. This model works and it's useful. It may not be the absolute truth. It may not be the absolute time that I arrive on time. Maybe there's traffic or whatever, but it works for me and it's at least usefulness mundane capacity. And what the issue is is when people have that low standard of for mundane things and they apply to incredibly extraordinary things like the existence of a God or even take in my head two different standards and say, well, my extraordinary God has told me that it's not necessary for me to get vaccinated. And I'm like, oh, you've compounded a very low standard of evidence to a highly incredible statement and are believing whatever this big statement tells you about mundane things. Like you're kind of this really vicious loop that may actually lead to a needless harm. And so I wish for this cherry picking that we do to at least be acknowledged the fact that like, hey, for mundane things like Google Maps, that's okay because I'm not really hurting anybody if I arrive at McDonald's 30 seconds later than I'm supposed to. But when it comes to interacting with other human beings, I want to have the highest standard of information possible. And so maybe I'll cherry pick less on that and be more comfortable with getting closer to the more absolute truth if I can be Larry. Yeah, all it gets me is that the opposition would say, yeah, it was 99.3% and then they took considerate. Well, they don't want to tell you all this stuff. But now it's 99.9% after they take in whatever else. See, right? Science was wrong. Yes. No, they lied to you. They're either right or wrong. It's one or the other. It can't be both. Dredd. I was just going to point out too, I was listening actually to an episode of the Skeptic Guide to the Universe podcast. And they're a real great group for anyone who's looking for content. But the point was made is that the theories of science are models of reality. They're not true depictions of what we think reality is. They're models. And that's why they can change over time as new evidence comes in and new information comes in. Yeah, Darwin's theory is a good example because he didn't have any knowledge of DNA. Or germs. And he gave us a good model that we could use going forward. Exactly. Yeah. Hey, I'm going to throw this out too. It's going to touch on both of your points, but the idea of science being wrong. I've had conversations on my YouTube channel where people say, aha, they said this drug would work, but then they realized it didn't work. Science was wrong. Science was wrong. And I was like, in my head, that's not an example of science being wrong. That's an example of science getting something right. Because when science figures out something doesn't work, it's the first thing in the line to be like, hey, this doesn't work, right? It's self-correcting. It has a self-correcting feature. When something doesn't work in religion or faith, there's nothing, you're the problem. And you think about how slow the Pope has come to accepting responsibility on behalf of the church for some, I mean, think about Galileo. Apologizing for Galileo. 10 years ago or something. Oh my gosh, that's terrible. Larry, what's that? Back when Edison was working on the light bulb, he'd worked on it for years and couldn't find the correct element that wouldn't burn up. And the interviewer was saying, say you haven't had anything but failure for the last year. He says, ah, but I know a thousand things that don't work. So he could move on from that. It was progress, even though he hadn't reached the right element. Hey, what's up, Dredd? Yeah, just one of our viewers here, his name is Redonk and he goes, absolute truth doesn't exist. Truth is a measure of confidence. Truth is a measure of confidence. We'd have to touch on that. I have to think about that a little bit more. Well, that would explain why religions says they always have capital T truth. They have ultimate confidence in their religion. Right. Absolute confidence. But Edison in his own right is an interesting figure because I feel like, you know, it takes someone who try to make something to realize that when you hit a wall, it's not the end of the project, but rather a better resolution of how to make the project work. Like you hit a wall here. Now you know what to go around or what the next obstacle is in the process of making something. And one, one of the cool things he had a problem with was he was trying to figure out how do I make filaments burn longer for my incandescent lamps. Right. And there was another patent guy, a black dude named Louis Howard Latimer, who made a longer lasting filament for stuff like that. And Edison's like, Hey, I'll take whatever I can get. This guy going to get your stuff is like, I got my patent. It's like, okay, fine. We'll buy your patent. And Tom said, it's not rich as hell. I'm going to get your patent. And that was one of the tricks that, you know, collaboration and working with other scientists figuring out, Hey, what small era are you an expert in? Can we collaborate and can we build a model so I can get over the walls of things that I don't know? And in my head, it's just that collaborative aspect of science that makes the best ideas flow to the top. And it tends to be the case that great ideas don't happen in a vacuum and like great inventions don't happen by just one person. It takes a team of people working together question each other and trying to beat each other with the best information that leads the best things rise to the top. And I love that dread first and then Larry. Yeah. So anyway, Radonc clarifies his earlier statements. Yes, science relies on being false and viable and subject to scrutiny. Yeah, that I agree. Yeah. Absolutely. Well, I was trying to say about the teams of scientists working together to find truth. Sometimes the teams of scientists aren't working together. That's how we found the cosmic background radiation. One team was working to find it and they couldn't find it. And another team wasn't working to find it, but they found it and they didn't know it was. They were fairly close together physically and they contacted each other. One group did the other and the bill. We now know a whole lot more about the cosmic background. That's a beautiful story because it does show that science is a objective tool that different parties can use to figure out the same thing even if the intentions were completely different. They point to the same model of reality. It's such an accurate model that two different teams working in two different directions can arrive at the same conclusion, right? And you don't get that with religion because we have the Third Street Baptist Church who disagrees with the Second Street Baptist Church who says they got it all wrong. Well, even one of the parishioners doesn't think that the preacher's right. So he splits off and starts his own denomination. George, what's up? I was just thinking of the example of where I live. The two counties, the two counties here, one is large, one is tiny. And there's a newspaper that serves both counties and they have, they list all the churches every Friday and every once in a while I go and I read them and I count the churches. And so we have in these two counties, talking about the Baptist spin-offs, Larry, we have 167 official Baptist churches. And then we have another 37 unofficial Baptist churches. And then we have the other ones that have split off completely from those. It's an incredible number of churches. It's an incredible number. It is. And here's the thing too, and I want to make sure this is a point before we end the show. Every single one of those people will call themselves Christian, as if it was one thing, uniformly across all those subsections within that denomination. And Catholics will call themselves Christians, Protestants call themselves Christians. And the thing is, I'm not letting that pass for me anymore as an answer. When someone tells me a Christian, I ask them, which kind are what kind, epistological, mythological, Lutheran, Protestant, Catholic, evangelical, Adventist. Like there's so many different kinds. I want to know what brand within this greater band that you think you are, because it's not one thing. And I find like by asking that question, it just helps them to realize, one, I'm not taking whatever you tell me as a grain of salt. And two, I'm aware that there's more versions than you're letting on. And three, where are you in this brand scheme of things? And oftentimes I get, well, I'm not a non-denominational. It's like, oh, welcome to, I still don't know anything. Church of one. I still don't know anything about what you believe or what you don't believe, but thank you for at least picking the one of the best denominations out there, the non-denominational. Anyway, hey, I think we're getting close to the bottom of the half. George, or bottom of the second half, George, are you feeling the top of the hour? Top of the hour. Are you feeling good without your coffee buzz? Is it coming back to you? Yeah, yeah, I'm feeling good. I still want to know how in the world am I going to give up coffee, because I like it so much. I'm hooked. I'm addicted, guys. Help me. It's a thing. It's one of the weird, in our culture, it's one of the weird, acceptable psychotropic that people accept and sell to kids. And everyone thinks it's normal. But there you go. Dred, Pirate, where can we find you at? Well, I'm live streaming as we speak on my YouTube channel, Mine Pirate, which can be, it's M-I-N-D-P-Y-R-A-T-E. And I stream it at AM Pacific Standard Time. So check it out. And I just got one more comment here from Redonk. He says, think a more accurate wording would be that absolute knowledge doesn't exist. It's like infinity, something you can approach but never reach. I thought that was pretty good. As opposed to stupidity. Indeed. Yeah, come check out my channel and please subscribe. I'm six viewers away, or six subscribers away from... Hey, I'll tell you how you do it. You start streaming some video games and people will be like, oh, he plays Fortnite too? Next scene of a 14-year-old to jump in your childhood. I could name it Ultimate Fails. Don't stand in fire. That's great. That's great. She said, what? There you go. I'm going to chat them on YouTube, whatever you got to do to make the algorithm work for you. And we'll be here next week. Larry, why don't you take a sound? Hey, remember this show is on Apple iTunes, Pocketcast, Amazon, and podcasts everywhere. Just search for Digital Freethought Radio Hour. I love that. My content is on digitalfreethought.com. Be sure to click on the blog button for a radio show, archives, atheists' songs, and many articles on the subject. I have a book. It's called Atheism, What's It All About? And it's available on Amazon. You can find my YouTube channel simply by searching for Larry Rhodes or Daughter5. If you have any questions for the show, you can send them to askanatheistatmuxwellatheist.org. If you're watching this on YouTube, be sure to like and subscribe. This has been the Digital Freethought Radio Hour. Remember that everybody is going to somebody else's hell.  Until then, don't sweat it. Enjoy your life. We'll see you next week. Say bye, everybody.


It's amazing to be back here. I always enjoy my time sharing and exchanging at the forum whether it's with my YGL family or at one of the sanctioned conferences and music is always one of the most powerful conduits to inspire social change and as well as you know personal and improvement because it carries message, it carries meaning, it carries sustenance just like good food and good spirituality. So without further ado I'd like to bring this piece here. It'll be in three parts. The first is entitled Illumination. When we think about our own personal journeys and our own personal improvements I think about these three pieces as reminders of destinations that we stop on and we remind ourselves of the first being illumination. When we share light, we share love, we share energy and we bring those things home to us and that is the first destination to remember as we go on our journeys. So as we go through the journeys that we've gone through in times like such where we jam-pack so much amazing activity in such a short period of time I think it's important to remind ourselves that the second destination for prosperity is to remember to reflect. For it is in reflection that we find time to face our fears, to see ourselves in the way that we see our own growth and our own person but also to think about the way that we are radiating outwards and this next piece is entitled Reflection. I would like for you to be able to calmly feel this and breathe with me as I play this and think about letting all the amazing things that have happened to you thus far sink in so that you can take those with you on your journey. I'd like to make sure that I say a great big thank you to all the people that have made not only this performance possible but the entire platform here possible. Definitely a gigantic thank you to our folks here at the World Economic Forum, to the founding family Hilda and Klaus who've always been so supportive. Thank you to our YGL family, to our exactly yes you can make some noise. There you go to our our regional man on the ground now here our good friend David Aikman who's making it happen absolutely. To my teams in New York our fellow beloved Binta Brown and our team at Formata in New York our building team here in China with Peggy Lu and her fantastic crew in China. Thank you all thank you so much this has been such a pleasure and an honor to build this music and share it with you and of course we couldn't make it happen without these fantastic artists here who have flown all over the world just to be here with us today. On the koto the virtuoso Miss Yumi Kurosawa creating the stunningly bright visuals that we're seeing behind me here Martin Gabor the renowned painter from Japan turning the tradition upside down here Mr. Hidekichi Shigemoto. For those of you who haven't met I am Dana Leong please do keep the conversation going. I'm very very much reachable through all of our friends here at the WEF. Thank you so much this is entitled Golden Dream. It has recently been brought to my attention through some close friends that there has been a term here that's been building in China about the China dream about prosperity for the future and that's inspired me to create this piece of music not only because I think that we're all here because we believe in the prosperity and the future of China on so many levels but because we believe in a unification through humanity and the very you know the very the very core of it the baseline of what the world economic forum stands for as well improving the state of the future and the world so without further ado let's share our own golden dreams.


I love mansplaining. And I need it 24 hours a day from my alpha male. Not a beta male. That's disgusting. And I will never listen to that garbage. Women need mansplaining. It's very good for them. But we only listen to mansplaining from alpha males.  And all of these conservative thoughts, tick thoughts, feminists, skankaroos, when they say they don't like mansplaining, they're lying.


So the meeting is being recorded right now. And according to the agenda, Karen has the floor. She's the Appalachir point of contact for this thing and she will lead us through some of the community resources available for this thing and some of the procedures and processes that they have already outlined for a SIG So take it away Karen Thank you, Vivian. Hi everyone. I hope you're having a good morning afternoon or evening wherever you are Um, thank you so much for joining our very first capital market SIG call This will be the first of many And so what I'm gonna share with you and I'll get to sharing my screen here is is just a little bit of an overview of special interest groups in general and some of our community tools to be able to use As part of the activities of the SIG So at the beginning of every You didn't already do it, right, Vivian? Okay, so the beginning of every meeting Of any public meeting at Hyperledger we have to show you the antitrust policy notice as you know, we're an open-source community and Have to follow all antitrust laws. So we always show this at the beginning of every meeting for a few seconds It's also available on our website if you want to take a look at it as well So what special interest groups do at Hyperledger is they gather a community that's working in a specific sector or specific domain To co-create to share information share what projects you're working on Also Create best practices Do some research. There's it's really unlimited what a special interest group can do because It's really based on the group's interests Some of those groups have our writing white papers Some of them are creating databases of use cases Some of them are proposing Something a common framework that's relevant for the entire industry that's something like the telecom special interest group That I'll show you later is working on Because there's a lot that the whole industry can benefit from and so they're working on developing a common framework for that We also have technical working groups, and I'll cover that later in the slides as well You've all seen the communications from bit Bippin. Bippin is our Current leader of the group. He's the interim chair every six starts with an interim chair for about three months And then an election is held for a year-long position as chair something anybody can propose themselves for But for the time being they've been someone who helped spur the creation of this group gather a lot of the interested parties And wrote up some of the initial scope and mission as well Which we invite you all to start contributing to and defining what the scope and mission of this group will be I'm your hyperledger point of contact for this special interest group So you can reach out to me or Bippin at any point in time when you have questions about the group or You know how to use our tools for example, etc and so what we're really looking to do here is to to to build a community that Contributes to your your efforts in blockchain to what you guys are doing in your respective companies and projects So some of those tools that we have available some of you have already become familiar with a lot of you have joined the mailing list I see all the The joins coming through So each group a hyperledger whether it's a SIG a working group or the project frameworks and tools Has a mailing list and you can join not only ours But some of the many others at at groups.io If you ever want to email the group you just use this email here on the slide And you'll send a message out to everybody that's on the mailing list We also have a wiki page Which you should start to familiarize yourself with I'll actually click on the link here and take you to it So you can take a look It's It's still to be populated so You know once The group starts to discuss a bit more about the mission and scope and activities We'll add information here that will form the charter of the group Once we get our regular meetings well That's one of the topics on the agenda today to discuss. What's the regular meeting time? That'll get added to All our meeting agendas are found on the wiki page as well So you can always see what's on the agenda what's coming up and it also add to it and All our meetings are all recorded At hyper ledger as well. So if you ever miss a meeting Or can't attend you can always catch the notes and the recordings as well They've been has created a poll here to determine some of the meeting time So this is that link that I sent around to the mailing list Earlier or let last night and this is where you can find it on the main page So we also have a chat And so this is sort of a different mode of communication So a lot of times mailing list is maybe for longer discussions or proposing topics or proposing ideas Meeting agendas etc and the chat is really for more Back and forth conversations and communications If you've used slack before it's basically an open source version of slack so We can see here. There's one for all the different groups at hyper ledger This is the capital markets one. We've already had a few posts happen here. And again There's one for everything at hyper ledger so you can not only join ours, but join others too if you like And then we also have a folder for any documents they could they can be put on the SIG or In this in our community of Google Drive folder Now one thing that's really important to engage with our tools at hyper ledger is to create a Linux foundation ID So for you to be able to and some people had an issue with this for you to be able to log into the chat or Or edit The wiki So when I mean edit, this is what you can just view if you're not logged in But I can actually go in here and edit the page Kind of like a Google doc. You can do simultaneous edits with multiple people working at it and I can You know sit here and type some stuff on and add to the introduction adds other things So it's a really important thing to get the Linux foundation ID so that you can be able to use our tools It's very simple to get once you're finished editing by the way you just click update And I'll show you real quick how to get the Linux foundation ID You also are going to get all these slides as well So you can take a look at it later But if you want to do this while we're talking right now about it, I highly recommend it because it takes Few minutes So all you have to do is go to identity dot Linux foundation org You have to ignore all of this do not do any login with Facebook or Google or any of this Just say I need to create a Linux foundation ID Come up with a username Your email address password first name last name Confirm you're not a robot and then create a new account You'll get an email you verify that email and then you can log in to the wiki and you can log into the chat And there'll be a login button here on the top right button. I'm logged Yes, yes, yes, I see that I went on mute because it was the recording was temporarily paused for some reason anyway, so What I'm Can you hear me? Yes, I can hear you. All right, so I'm asking for volunteers for a couple of things one is Anyone who wants to help scribe the meeting or record the meeting and post the recordings on the web page That would be a very helpful The other aspect is that we need a white twice chair To take over the duties of the chair and the chair is not available the chair, you know, the word chair is basically just a another term for a chief bottle washer basically Because Most of the work is in coordinating people and helping people But I would also like to contribute my own Stuff into the into the mix because I do have 20 plus or even 30 plus I'm ashamed to say Years of experience with different Aspects of capital markets the last 15 years was spent in mortgage-backed securities create creation of a creation of front to back and Risk and P&L systems, so we had to basically delve into every aspect of Mortgage-back trading and settlement and risk management This is not just simple flow products, but also complex Derivatives derivatives on mortgages Then we branched into Securitization and also credit-based products which are similar to mortgage-based product, but are differently modeled so that that aspect of Things was what what was most interesting to me and I noticed some gentlemen saying that they're working on ML integration with With blockchain, which is would be a very interesting aspect to study So So basically I need you know someone to volunteer for a vice chair And the duties are going to be pretty light But it is to stand in for the chair and also to help the chair the others other needs are minuting and and also helping with recordings and of course everyone is expected to contribute to the Wiki page and the community Otherwise, there's no point in us all coming together here and there are many others interested parties who are Not on the call either because There is a conflict for them or They are based in areas where this call would be at an odd time, but 9 a.m Is it eastern standard time is a good time for most of the world except for the west coast which is Which is where it's too early like 6 a.m. and for places like Japan which are probably You know past the midnight hour But the whole of China is You know is accessible at this hour. So when you make when we make the polls and Pick the times we have to be Very careful about trying to pick a time that is convenient for a global call, but obviously We can also collaborate on the wiki page so one of the you know, so a few just to recap one we need somebody on the to Volunteer for Vice Chair someone to scribe and take minutes and recordings Three we need people to contribute to the wiki page and to provide ideas but I'm going to throw open the floor to topics that we should be addressing for the sake because we are at a unique juncture between business and Technology specialists there seem to be a little bit of preponderance of technology Types on the call, but at the same time Without business there's no technology and without technology. There is no business Collaboration like dance that is the key. So I want to throw open the floor and ask for ideas on what The SIG should be working on in terms of the vice chair stuff. You can always Volunteer on email or rocket chat and then we can talk about that So It does anyone want to go and talk about what they think That we should be working on in the short term and in the longer term So one of the things that I I thought should be done is develop some kind of a taxonomy of capital markets from issuance To The end of you know custody and so on so please Please talk about what is important for what would be important for you in this In this same, thank you Anyone can raise their hand or even start talking Let me go please There are a lot of people who know a lot a lot more about this than me. I think in this working group and so my my my request is to see if it makes sense for us to latch on to your idea of taxonomy We've been to see if we can at least make a start about giving some kind of a some kind of an overarching introduction maybe or Something that we can write out and say this is the scope These are all the things that we'll address These are the definitions and that type of stuff, you know And people who know a lot about this sector Can contribute to that and you know once we we're all on the same page It'll help me and I'm not sure if I'm the only one here, but you know that that's that's my request and suggestion anyone else This is mani from swap sub Just wanted to follow up on it Since blockchains, you know spans over Products or industries it's important to you know be very careful about the standards you follow You know having been seen so many different implementations of DLT's and blockchains The most important thing here is is is as a SIG we can identify and you know formulate a data standard Probably that much more easier for you know future interaction between products and solutions Everyone implementing their own smart contract and other their own data formats are going to come into Pretty quickly into loggerheads and so how you're going to solve In the ledger communication or even simply Exchanging information so this because very critical and I know we have been part of the as a common domain model for the capital markets group Really saw a lot of these issues, but we do want to hear if there are other competing standards other interests as well so that please the Four implementing solutions knows that on our case follows the standard because you do not want to be You know eventually in a position where your data format does not Match with our work with other solutions in the marketplace And it's also it's common format that many dealers or many market persons have to adapt to Any solution that follows standards have a better chance of success than in any kind of proprietary data formats so in other words, we will create some kind of a Place where we can gather the different standards that exist today like CDM which you're talking about And which I was proud to be a part of the data pack where you were there and The CDM is an excellent standard What you know, there are other standards like for example for For DAH working in Australia the they are talking about ISO 2022 How do these fit together? What are the differences? What are what are the gaps in one that is handled by another That would be one thing the other would be to take some kind of national standard like for example the India stack or any other Regulate and how that would map on standards meaning that's really and Talk about which standard to follow It's so so so there it would be like a standard Track and there would be some kind of interaction that enters so money. I think We can put In the project proposals the first one I would put is the taxonomy Then the other one I would put there is the standard stock Anything else any other person wants to talk about it welcome right here Hey Stan, can you hear me? Yes, then great. So I completely agree on the taxonomy. I think that is that perfect place to start So we're everybody technologists and non technologists are speaking the same language and So when I comment on the data and in just about every single proof of concept we've done the very first problem We ran into is common data format Especially when talking between different organizations and frequently even though fix is typically the standard Most companies take liberties with it. So we still have to come up with a common data We're also looking at CDM It's helping to solve this and so as far as the other things to look I think the use cases is Always great topic and if we can pick the Because there's a lot of exploration happening of different use cases in the capital markets and some Use cases better fit some are not so good. And I think it would be helpful to everyone really to come up with a set of good use cases where does the DLT truly fit where can it Like not just bring the kind of incremental changes, but actually revolutionize How the flow works or the industry works or even create new business models or products because all of the many of the great product or even the products that create a lot of havoc have been created through technology, you know emerging technology that the whole Yeah, I think so that use case is great, but you said you used the word there good That is that is the key, right? I mean good Yeah based on some kind of an objective evaluation and one to It's on, you know the potential for disruption right Go ahead. So obviously your right. I mean good is a bad description No, it's not it's not it's as good a description as any They and you're absolutely right. I mean what it what does it mean? It's a good use case so in my mind a good use case is the one that naturally fits the technology right there's been many many attempts to fit this Square peg into the round hole with a blockchain as the buzzword but We know that there are many use cases where DOT technology fits perfectly and is The right solution for the problems so should we use a You know one of those flowcharts that everybody looks at for determining the appropriateness of or should we look at a collection of use case because there are plenty of use cases Right is going to be how to map them into let's say let's say that we can map them into the taxonomy Oh, this fits in with the issuance aspect This fits in with a secure titan this fits in with the risk analysis. This fits in with the hedging and Evaluation method this big with custody and settlement issues. So following a front-to-back road Our corporate actions whatever else comes in the post trade So That's why I need people like Kelly to There's something which I know obviously she has got her hand raised which means that she's going to say Something to us about this One of the things that I was thinking about I like the idea of taxonomy But I think because of the knowledge of this group. I it would it might be an idea to identify maybe three real obstacles that Are faced by anyone trying to work in this space Because if we have a combination of academics and we have a combination of coders, etc in this group then it's one thing to say what it is and it might be something interesting to be able to go deep on what Really are the pain points because then people from different perspectives could say either hey This is resolved here or take a look at that use case or no This is a significant issue and so academics on the call etc people from around the world can Focus some time on that issue informing putting some ideas out etc When you say that are you meaning the things like, you know, everybody talks about scalability articles, you know It could be something Technological, but it could also be something related to compliance. It could be related to Corruption it could be related to Whatever people who are we have some CEOs and startups and founders on the call they There probably is a commonality of a couple of issues that are near stumbling blocks for them to succeed and That commonality. I don't want to kind of guess or predetermine what it is But it might be from a business point of view It might be from a technology point of view But there are serious issues that a group like this is trying to address So I like saying what is but I also like the idea of coming together to try to work through This the significant a couple of significant issues whether from the business context or from from the technology Context to see hey together we can find Ways or I don't want to say a solution, but a methodology to address What could really be curbing the scalability or curbing the Acceptability etc of what we're trying to do within this realm. What drew people to this particular group? Yeah, so there are you know, as you know general problems affecting most DLT solutions Then what would be? Very specific to the capital markets aspect of Of you know, what are what are the spin on the on the actual problems in the capital market side of things? May I put you as as the lead on that particular thing and Stan as one for the use cases money is money is the one for the regulation. I mean how standard sorry And so on so, you know, obviously you don't have to take up that role, but at least So that's fine. You can lead the charge on that aspect of things I know for example if we're looking at use cases and developing use cases Then as we're reading those I find that there's often one point in that use case that is a make-or-break Or maybe two points and it's like well, this is perfect except This is a huge obstacle for us and and so I think it's good to develop the overall use case, but I'm finding that the point of Basically crossing your fingers and and leaping and hoping to come up with a solution kind of resonates It's it's not across a use case. It's often a point an obstacle in a use case And I think that this particular group with all of this experience that I'm hearing maybe we could not only address What is but address what? Where the the bottleneck or you know, I I don't know if it would be a bottleneck or it's an impossibility But it's certainly an obstacle Yeah Sounds great. So let's move on down the list if somebody else wants to say anything because we have Four minutes and we have to end the meeting at that time so please Suggest anything else and of course we are open 24-7 on the wiki so, you know, you can always Suggest stuff there and I'm going to in the minutes of the meeting I'm going to send The Link to the proposals page and also to the members page so that you can each fill out your own You know your own bio short bio with the Areas of interest and what? Impelled you to take part in this group. So that's that's one thing so please You know if any anyone else has any anything more to add to this You know we can do it in the next minute or so otherwise we'll Close the call soon and it's going to be in the next Two weeks later that we are going to have the same calls in time until we get to a poll that says a different time and Possibly we are going to have a different Different zoom channel that doesn't clash with the The channel on both sides maybe community dot backup, but we will do that. Thank you The link to the poll is in the zoom chat as well, and I also sent that by email So as soon as we have a quorum on that will set up the regular meeting time and calendar and buying everything The poll is meant to close all the seven, but I think I'm depending on the voting patterns. I may change it To be later. So Jonathan, do you have anything more to add to this? I? See that you're on view to do so or am I reading it wrong? No, I'll go to my front, you know enjoy meeting everyone today, and I look forward to seeing how everything progresses And thank you for organizing I see that make this happen during the call maybe for the next meeting probably but Nick is also an interest Working on performance still So in the next meeting we'll talk about the cross cutting concern. All right. Thank you Thanks Thank you, thanks. Thank you


There's something in the water Hey guys Let's change this up a little bit here. Ah There we go. This is my review for Lighthouse the latest film directed by Robert Eggers and has a Willem Dafoe and Robert Pattinson in it This movie weird! Admittedly I knew going into this film that it was going to be a different kind of thriller slash horror movie Experimental sort of film having watched The Witch back in 2015 I enjoyed that movie but something that I liked about it too that you don't see many movies go for is its commitment to the language The movie was based on colonial immigrants in America if I'm correct in the 17th 1700s and the language the English the dialect was Pretty close to what it was back then and the film doesn't hold your hand through that and neither does this one Which admittedly is reason why I definitely am gonna rewatch it with subtitles These two are so committed to their characters. They're so committed to their dialogue that You do get a little lost sometimes, but just how well they Spew it out and how well they keep to these accents. They don't break They don't falter despite the fact that they're absolutely Wasted for a good portion of this movie not just the characters like them themselves You read any of the behind-the-scenes stuff for this movie. It was crazy They were drunk quite a bit of this movie because the film does relate to madness alcohol abuse Isolation and it all encompasses it in this film that is shot in a letterbox like this Which is something that I really enjoyed about this movie because it made it work so well because There's a lot of times you don't even notice it because of how they're shooting it They're usually shooting it either through crates or through boxes or alleyways or Points of view that the only time that you really actually notice the bars is when it's outside It uses this so well the lighting in this film is fantastic for a film That's purely black and white you are so drawn into this island to these guys's tales of madness With how it's shot and I got to applaud them for that the film is definitely taking visual ideal aspects from 1920 silent movies while the story is taking Tibbits here and there from maritime legends and lore and mythology and whatnot and combining the two into this movie That is just it's so weird, but it's so intriguing weird It starts off kind of slow the whole movie is sense is slow You are just drawn in with going what is going on and I enjoyed that thoroughly But admittedly it's not a movie that I'm gonna be like yeah, let's pop this on because it's it's really weird Like I said, there's sometimes dialogue you can't pick up on but the performance is just so good There's times where all of a sudden these guys go from being drunk to being happy to being angry to being sorrowful about each other To the point where they burst into monologues and you don't even realize it until about half a minute in you're like wow This is a pretty good monologue to foe has a few Pattinson has a few I Really enjoyed these two just seeing these two characters on screen Was enthralling and that's hard to do when you have just two people in a movie And the movie just screws with you throughout the entire time to the point where you are just beyond lost I've been thinking about it ever since I saw it yesterday and I keep on wondering what this meant How does that interpret there's some things that definitely I'm gonna need to watch some videos on to explain what's happened There's probably about a billion lighthouse a ending explained out there now I'm waiting for the let me explain guys because those guys have been pretty thorough But otherwise I enjoyed this movie. It's definitely not for everyone. Hell. No, it's not for everyone It's not a movie that you're gonna be like hmm. Let's just go and watch this There's definitely a few people in that theater who were like what the hell am I watching? And I don't blame them because that's the kind of movie that Robert Eggers makes but in the end I'm going to give the lighthouse a 5 out of 7 It's definitely gonna probably be in my top 10 for the year for sure Just because of how much of a new experience it is how different it is from what you're used to and the acting the acting in This movie is fantastic But anyways guys, I hope you enjoyed this review if you did leave a like and if you're interested in more Maybe subscribe. Otherwise, I'll see you guys next time Thanks for watching the video to see any and all updates about the upcoming undergrads movie Be sure to check out and like the bring back undergrads Facebook page and with any luck. We'll see you guys soon