Good day and welcome back to the 4TOD podcast with your host, Mr. Thomas Henley of course. How are you guys doing today? It is lovely to be back on the podcast doing another really really interesting episode. Today we're going to be talking to Brandon, who is somebody that got in touch with me via Instagram. Basically we had one of the pre-chat calls that I usually have before podcasts like think of a topic and think of questions and stuff. We got on so well that we were chatting for over an hour so it was really nice. Brandon's got a really awesome story as well as recently deciding to kind of dive into the autistic community, create his own kind of style of posts which are gym and autism related, which is always really cool to have another person like that in the community. So yeah, we're basically going to be talking about a lot of different things today. Sort of the school system, things around misdiagnosis, things around general life experiences that autistic people may have, as well as I guess some things to do with unemployment and employment and getting into the work feeling okay with life in lots of different areas. So it's going to be a very kind of all encompassing podcast today. And yeah, I'm very happy to introduce my guest, Mr. Brandon Christ. How are you doing? I'm doing good. It's a good introduction. I appreciate it. Yeah, I'm excited to be here. Like you said, we had a really cool conversation and I mean we've been having a good conversation before we started recording here. But I'm excited to be here and I hope people who are here watching and listening take the time to make it through and listen to us because I feel like it's going to help some people today. And that's really what I'm here for. I know that's what you're here for. And I assume that's what people who are listening are here for. Certainly. Well, when we were chatting before, it seemed like you had a very keen interest in kind of sharing your story after kind of a lot of years of not knowing that you're autistic and sort of perhaps not feeling okay with talking about it. So that I'll have a kind of twofold answer for that one, right? So and we'll most likely get into it either after my answer or at some point during the podcast.  And so I've kind of always been open with people and with the public in terms of what makes me different, so to speak. So in the past, it was always like I have bipolar disorder, you know, and this is why XYZ. And it wasn't until, you know, about January this year when I received my diagnosis of level two autism and ADHD combined that I started to, you know, be open about, you know, having autism and being autistic because it was honestly a huge relief to me. And I'm really trying to find the right words for it because I don't want to upset anybody.  But you know, the way that my experience was with the treatment and being told what bipolar was and the portrayals of it. It was not, you know, something good I was made to feel that that it was broken and something was bad. So when I received the autism diagnosis and ADHD, I'm like, you know, I'm not bad. I'm not broken. Like there's real, real neurological I was born this way. There's nothing that could possibly change the way that things are, you know, and it's that's what it is. And I'm not broken. And so, you know, yeah, I don't know, I got lost. It's kind of that interesting thing, isn't it? Because like, I think, you know, with things such as autism, ADHD, there is very much like, it's not necessarily like, very clear that it's good or bad. Whereas like things like with myself having no depression and anxiety, you know, if someone could come along and just cure me of both of them, like, I would like take it an instant.  I'd be like, no, sounds absolutely terrifying. Yeah, no, I totally agree with that. I know thank you for helping to put better words into what I was trying to explain. Because that's what's hard for me sometimes is honestly finding the right words. Because, you know, my autism is awesome, and I'm happy about it. But it really does cause struggles for me. I get overwhelmed real quickly, like with what we're doing here, like out of nowhere, you know, so finding the right words is difficult sometimes. If I'm genuinely being myself, you know, because I was pretending for an extremely long time, because I didn't know that I had autism and I thought everything, everyone was this way. So I just created personalities and pushed things, like, as far down as humanly possible to where I didn't feel, you know, necessarily anything. Yeah, I think that's something that a lot of people can relate to in different areas. Like, I know that, like for me, I wasn't, I didn't tend to mask when I was younger, but that was mostly because I just couldn't, like, I just couldn't, like, wrap my head around doing the actual thing, you know, I talked to some other people who have masks during school and they were, like, able to, like, stay under radar. For me, like, the only way that I could mask is just to be almost just completely mute. Like, I would just, just, like, selectively reduce the amount of words that I used to such a degree that, you know, it'd be hard for anybody to tell, really, apart from, perhaps, like, a nonverbal communication. People just kind of think that was quiet. It's so funny that you say that because, like, that, so we're opposite in that regard. My, the way I was was to be hyperverbal, you know, and, like, create, like, create conversations and create, like, to get out ahead of anything that could have possibly taken attention to me or, you know, like, happened.  I definitely went through kind of a similar sort of phase. It's probably, like, of the course of two or three years. I think it's definitely something that has, like, still huts to some degree has its grips in me, like, just in the back of my head. But, like, definitely, like, watching sort of content online, like, on YouTube about, like, how you should be as, like, a man or a person if you want to be confident and, like, I, you know, I match, you know, I'm very confident myself and I don't really feel much social anxiety around anybody. But I think some of the ways that I come across because of, you know, my, that's my body language or, like, my eye contact or, you know, any number of things, it does to some people kind of come across that I'm not very confident sometimes. And so I was like, all right, I need to, like, change things. I need to, like, put myself out in the best way possible. And I was like, oh, I need to have open body language all the time. I need to, like, not smile as much as I do, even though, like, you know, it's, it's part of my personality. There are all sorts of things which are, like, talked about a lot as that's what, like, confident men do. But, you know, it's just so counterintuitive for who I am, I guess. Yeah, no, I mean, that makes total sense to, like, I literally, so due to everything that I've been working through over the last eight months, from, you know, reevaluation therapy, you know, medication, constant therapy, like I've been going three days a week for eight months for an hour, you know, medication on Friday, it all just kind of clicked.  And to be honest, I really, I didn't even know how bad it was until everything just, like, clicked on Friday with the new medication regimen and, you know, all the therapy, it just was, it's insane.  What do you mean about, like, the medication side of things, did you, because I know that you had the diagnosis of ADHD as well. Is that what you mean in terms of the medication? Yes and no. So I've been on, I've been using ADHD medication for, I'd say, like, maybe five or six months now. And it helped a tremendous amount. And it obviously, it still very much does. It was increased, but the main thing that happened is I was taken off one medication and then put on to a different one that could replace it and help with my anxiety the next day. So it's a medication that I take at night to help with my insomnia because I just cannot sleep. And then it also works throughout the next day with anti-anxiety and, like, calming effects. So that combination of coming off one that was giving me negative side effects that I didn't realize because autism and I also, you know, my therapist is like, what, you know, you got to get better at this. I'm like, yeah, I still, it just is what it is. That's why I pay you, you know, you helped me with that. But, you know, so I couldn't, so the medicine was giving me bad side effects. And I, you know, because of the autism, I had absolutely no interoception. Like you say, I couldn't, you know, really place that it was something that was even causing anything. And then the other aspect of it, too, is like, I felt like such my whole life and everything's been too much and so bad all the time that, like, it didn't even matter that that was like an extra thing.  Because, like, for me, since I was probably, probably early in 14, like maybe even 12, you know, I've been depressed. And it's not some, it's something that sometimes gets better in terms of like the mindset and how I'm dealing with it. But I'm always depressed to some degree. And it's, I'm always to some degree at, like, anxious in my body, maybe not in my head, but, you know, kind of, I kind of describe it as like having like ants on my bones. I only really experience the physical side of things. I think that's something to do with Alex of I'm here and things like that. But it's just kind of like my, my sense of normality is experiencing anxiety and depression to a mild degree. Like, that's good for me. Like, when I was younger, like baseline. Yeah. When I was younger, my baseline would be like around like the moderate kind of level of both of them. And just like a lot of instances where I would dip into severe. But nowadays, it's very much more work into the mild side of things. I only get like periods of time for about maybe a month or so, sort of during the year that it does get quite severe. But it's really weird when like, do you think you're older or you know how to cope better? I think it's, I know how to cope better and I know where to put my mental energy and thoughts, you know, like, it's not even the case that I like think about positive things necessarily. It's more about, I guess, being okay with how I'm, how I'm feeling and what life is like to a certain degree and just adjusting things based on that. That makes sense. So more like reality therapy. Yeah, yeah, I guess. Excuse me. Yeah. Is there a negation that you want? Just wondering because it sounds very similar to the one that I'm on. Is it metazepine that you run? No, clonopin. Clonopin. I don't know if that's like, I've never heard of it. Benzodiazepine. Oh, nice. Yeah, and yeah, I was, I'm like, it's just funny because it's like benzodiazepine stimulants help me function and feel normal and it's like the opposite things. Yeah. And like, that's how I know for sure I'm autistic and that it's just how I was born because you know, I've been on every anti-psychotic and anti-convulsant and SSRI and like I've been on it all because they all thought I was bipolar forever and so you know, I'm just on like, in my mind was like kind of natural medications in a way because they both naturally kind of occur and they just, I don't know, they help, they work for me and I'm just grateful that they do because you know, I really could not keep living the way that I was prior to everything working out the way it is right now. Well, I'm thinking it would be good to kind of get into some of the questions that we have here. I mean, I think the place that we wanted to start off with was kind of around like the school age kind of experience of you know, going through early, middle kind of high school experiences. I think you mentioned when we taught last time that you had quite a difficult time in the school system. Could you tell us about like the behavioral and mental health issues that you faced during that time? Yeah, so in general, my memories aren't necessarily the best due to like a lot of stuff that I went through when I was younger and then, yeah, trauma and then honestly like just my ADHD also because you know, that's kind of how it works with ADHD. I need like prompts to recall, you know, information and feelings. But yeah, trauma is definitely number one and the fact that I've been in this just constant state of panic and overwhelming over-stimulation since the day I have memories, you know, I've always felt the way I've always felt crazy, you know, crazy, not, you know, to say that I'm crazy until the other day. So I'll do my best. It's like the idea of being weird. It's always in comparison to other people. Yeah, yeah. And to be neurotypicals. Pretty much. And yeah, no, school is a struggle.  Like I really have no clue sometimes how I got to where I am today because, you know, I've been white knuckling my way through life, not understanding, not knowing, not fitting in and just, you know, moving forward because it's the only thing I knew to do, you know, and that's how I got through, you know, high school and middle school and elementary school, you know, here in the States. I never really wanted to be in school. It was never something that was fun for me. You know, in elementary school, I was obviously I had a lot of like attention problems.  I was actually in special, they called it special education back in the day. But I was in special education for a few months in elementary school. And then somehow my family got me out of that because part of the problem is that my family just doesn't want to admit that, you know, I'm disabled and I don't use that word lightly, but that, you know, I have legitimate disabilities and issues, they wanted to not admit that. So, you know, I can't be in special education.  I think just to some degree, it's like, I don't, I don't really have the experience of being a parent, but just from talking to my mom and also talking to other people in my life. It seems like sometimes the people for parents, it can sort of feel like you're failing, like you've done something wrong. And so they really want to avoid it. You know, some people, they just ignore it. And then, you know, for example, with my mom, she might have not really acknowledged it for a while. But I think once she kind of saw the reality of it, she did kind of switch a tune on it.  And even, even then, she was quite, I guess, she just kind of put like a positive spin on it, which I think was really helpful for me.  And I really don't understand how I'm still still around at this point. But I think it's a lot to do with motivation and just like somehow just having some kind of inner strength to want to carry on with things and move forward. It's, it's very strange to have like those two conflicting ideas in your mind. One is like give up and, you know, very heavily and you feel that to your bones. And then the other is just like this little voice in your head that you just kind of listen to about sort of carrying on with things. Yeah, it's funny. So I've always been extremely motivated to move and to move forward and to be better and to do the right thing and to get to where I am today. So it's like, I'm happy that I'm finally at the point now where I don't have so much that I'm dragging behind me.  And so it's just like that, you know, if I can curse cool, if not, you can bleep it out. But it's just that attitude that is just it's in my bones from the day I was born. And that's what moves me forward. Still to this day, you know, and to help people but you know, without getting to the point I am with feeling how I'm feeling and having the ability to cope and actually feel good, you know, I could not keep moving forward anymore. Like I was just, you know, dragging so much that it did not matter how strong I got or how tough I was or how bad I wanted it. It just yeah, I just I could not do it anymore. There's a lot, there's a lot of way that you carry as an autistic person sort of being so different. It's we carry, we carry with us a lot of negative experiences with life that definitely do affect our perception of other people, but also of ourselves that we kind of hold on to in the back of our heads that can often be really damaging, I guess, you know, it's one of the things that I tell a lot of people when they first get diagnosed is, you know, it's not necessarily like unmasking or learning how to stem or understanding your sensory things, but like actually kind of going through these, these, these thoughts that you have of yourself and trying to find where the root of it is. And quite often it's the root of it's not necessarily to do with who you are or your personality, but as you do to miscommunication or the environment that you're in or, you know, and so it can even if you do, you have done bad things sort of to people or said said bad things to people, it's, you know, looking at looking at it for a different lens for what it is, it really does help you process things even even if it is something that you, you know, I really clicked on something you said there on the saying or doing things, doing saying or doing bad things to people.   I don't anymore, you know, because I'm older and I know a lot more, but, you know, I would get violent.  And no matter how much inside you're like, no, no, no. And, you know, what's actually happening and what you're doing does not match with what you're telling yourself, you know, not don't feel bad. You can't help it. And it's okay. And anyone that makes you feel bad about it, you know, isn't really that good of a person. It's kind of like, especially like in school, it's very much a, like a defensive thing because the environment is so complex and everyone's kind of like moving for everyone that's, that's your age is kind of moving forward socially. It's at a speed that you're not able to keep up with. And so you get into a lot of situations where you, you know, are taking advantage of for, for those differences, you know, you can think of like direct communication and, you know, picking up on nonverbal cues. It's like, I think for me, it was very much that my defense mechanism was to kind of go inside myself and not like react or not do anything like that. Like, I remember a certain situation at school where there was like someone who, I don't know, for some reason, they like punched me in the balls. And I just didn't react. I just like, I like stone face them. And usually that would have worked to some degree. But it didn't because their friends came and they were like, Hey, look, Tom, Tom can get punched in the balls and he can be okay. And so of course, they all gathered around me and started punching me in the boards. Oh gosh. So it wasn't necessarily the best. If I was there, I'd have taken them down for you. That was part of what I did when I was in school too.  You know, I'd always get in the way of those things because it's not okay. And I've just always been able to kind of handle those things.  And, you know, I've got to do something with it. So I would do, you know, good things. I would, you know, beat people up for you, because that would not be okay. Not if I was there. And then we'd sit at the same lunch table. I did get to a point where I was kind of feeling like confident. Like I, I, I very much felt like a ton of anger, even though I was so sort of to the right with placid, not non-confrontational at school. I very much like held on to a lot of anger. So most of my nights that I spent at school, I would go to the gym on my own. I had like this, the scholarships of doing my taekwondo. And I would like work out in the morning and the night and I would literally like rid myself of all this energy. I never actually got into any confrontations at school like that I like fully, fully went into. But I did have some situations where I'd talk to people who were like picking on my friends. Yes, it's usually other people. It's not me, not me. I'm like, I just, yeah, there was like these, these two bullies that used to come like and steal our football and kick it over the roof and like twang our ears with like elastic bands and one of them was like a really big guy. And he was absolutely trying to almost, you know, bear in mind that I was like the age of 15, 16, he was he looked like he was like built like a fully grown man who did strong man. But I went up to him one time and was like, can you stop doing that? And he was like looking at me like, like, because nobody ever like said that to him before that you could, you know, it was like, he's tried to do it again. I was like, no, please don't. It's not comfortable. And I was talking to him, I was like, do you not have anything better to do than come in late harassers at lunchtime? Like, I'm not saying it in an aggressive way or like, you know, you're just having a conversation. Yeah. Yeah. And so that that was kind of like the first time that I'd really, I guess, confronted someone verbally. It's and it's very much something that has come in handy, I guess, in adulthood. Like if someone's just in a very confrontational, aggressive mood, just for, no, for no reason really, they just don't like the look of me. I just have a chat with them. And it usually seems to blow over. Okay. I think that knowing how to do martial arts helps as well, because you just don't like feel a sense of danger, I guess, around miss people. Yeah, that's fair. That would make sense. I know I know that you went when we were talking, like it wasn't it, you tended to get like, tall off quite a lot for autistic behaviors, think something that you mentioned was like, like you had a lot of kind of behavioral modification like to do with like all remote issues, which is something that yeah, yeah, no, yeah, thank yeah, no, I remember that. So when I was five, that's when that's why they started taking me to the to the doctor when I was five. So this is how ADHD in my brain is you asked me what happened between like, when I was five and got depressed until like I got out of it. And so my brain doesn't count the time before that, which was when they were going through the behavioral modification because that's what caused me to reach to that depressive state and then shut down and, you know, internalize all that and be overwhelmed because that's what they were doing. Like, you know, I was existing as a person with autism and ADHD. Yeah. And they would stop me from being the way that I am telling me that I'm bad telling me that it's wrong and that it can't happen.  And so I went, you know, to therapy and stop biting my nails. And then I started to bite the skin off of or the hair off of my hands and my knuckles and fingers.  And then I started to actually bite my knuckles themselves until they were wrong with bleep. And then, you know, that wasn't okay, obviously. And now I'm back in therapy, then I start pulling my hair out. And, you know, now that's not okay. And so then now I'm literally just internalizing everything, you know, they're trying to like remove all of these coping mechanisms that you have that then necessarily probably might not be good, but they're not like adding in anything for you to use like. Exactly.  And so, you know, all that anxiety over stimulation and, you know, due to the diagnosis is, you know, caused me to start to need, you know, an outlet because right part of what's, I wouldn't say wrong, but part of what we struggle with is regulation and staying regulated and our bodies don't do it naturally.  And so that's when I started to bite my nails because it was, you know, all too much.   And that was sometimes that can be not so great in terms of dental development, you know, pushy front teeth, that was probably not a good idea. But like, they just definitely didn't give them any ways to do things differently. They're not like, okay, the other oral mode to need. So let's get them some two things or let's like, they must be experiencing these sensory things. So maybe let's try and reduce the sensory or the like, the social stress that we've on them. It's like, it's just never considered. It's like, exactly humans do things for a reason quite often. Exactly.  And, you know, I talk to them, I don't hold them accountable. Because that's not really how you ever move forward in life. So the biggest thing that I struggle with is that they never want to themselves were like, nothing's working, let's try something else. Like that kind of like what you said is like, you know, people don't just behave and act the way they do for no reason.  You never once asked yourself, Hey, why don't we try something different? Why don't we go get re-evaluated?  And if I think as well on like the side of resentment as well, I think like quite often we think of harboring negative emotions to other people that it has some kind of spiritual ephemeral effect on that person to make them feel bad. But like quite often harboring that anger or resentment towards people, it's actually like just affecting you. Oh, yeah, totally. It's all inside.  Yeah. Like I have to constantly like practice forgiveness and acceptance because like it's silly, right? Like to normal people, it's silly. But to me, this person's parked in my spot. I've been parking there for three years. They moved in like a week ago, and now they're parking in my spot. And I like literally want to blow up their car. I will not do it. Executive function about where do I park? Is that going to feel okay? Do I have to move it in differently? Like, yeah, well, it's my spot too.  It's my, you know, control. And I, you know, part of my autism is I deep down like in my bones. It's just the way it is because of my sensory issues and everything together. Like people are extremely dysregulating. I do not really like people like deep down, I personally do. But due to the way that my body experiences the world and people, it doesn't like people. And so I'm constantly having to do that. People don't interact with us with the communication style that's most comfortable for us. Like, we've got a mold to them.  Like, you know, it's kind of weird. One of the ways that I think it's easy for me to tell that I'm talking to someone who's ADHD or autistic is that I don't kind of feel this weird like sense that I'm out of place. Like, you know, even if I don't know that they're autistic or not, and it doesn't seem like it just the conversation just seems to carry on. And it doesn't feel like, I don't know, it's hard to explain. It just flows. Yeah. It just flows. And also like, I don't know about you, but like I've not once been wondering when I should speak or feeling bad about, you know, if I'm talking at the right time or the wrong time or, you know, if it's your turn to say something or not. Because that's, you know, that's part of what's so hard for me with conversation is I just, it literally doesn't exist for me, you know? And so it's like, you know, part of what's so comfortable and why this is a good conversation, you know, on my end for sure. And maybe you are feeling the same way is just because like, I don't have to worry about any of that stuff. Like I'm just talking and you're just talking. And if I interrupt you, you know, I got ADHD at school and I have autism. So I don't even know when to speak to begin with. I know exactly what you mean. It's kind of hard sometimes when I have neurotypical individuals, I know sometimes people who are autistic as well. Like sometimes it definitely it definitely does feel like I need to like put in more of an active effort to like get the conversation like so that I can express myself sometimes.  Yeah, you know, that's part of what I attribute like. I mean, I guess maybe that's part of like how I cope with and move forward and not harbor resentment over my dismiss diagnosis is that, you know, I was born in 88 in the United States. So, you know, the people first movement for people with our type of disabilities didn't exist until the 2000s, early 2000s. So, you know, between that time period, it's still kind of a really gray time period when it comes to psychology and all and medication and all of that stuff. Because that's when things were starting to change, but everything really wasn't changed.   So, yeah, I don't really feel that life would be like, like not having the ability to access over like a community, like a whole of the world of autistic people. It's almost like we have our own like separate country for people. That's what I'm learning. That's exactly what I'm learning. That's what I'm learning.  And that's not to minimize your struggles in any way, because we all struggle the same and everyone struggles is bad. But I kind of feel a little bit grateful in a way because I truly do not believe I'd be as functional as I am. And I say that with like quotes.  It was survive or not. And so, you know, I was going to survive. And I had no choice other than to survive. It was either that or I'm homeless. Like, you know, so yeah, I can't imagine. Yeah, so it's hard for me. You know, it's yeah. And I mean, I wish I had, you know, understanding and all that growing up in the early 90s and that kind of stuff. But, you know, it was tough love back then. And you know, I was just I had to survive. That was my goal. That was the only thing I knew up until recently. Yeah. I mean, I definitely say that like, the majority of my issues has come from just school, other people, not fitting in, not knowing how to fit in.  And, you know, being depressed is a lot to do. We're depressed because we're too smart. Experience. Yeah. You know, we know it's all making no sense. Intelligent is tolerated. For sure. But like, I think, you know, I think people with autism know that the world doesn't make sense the way that it is. And that, you know, it's just, it can be very depressing because when you can see the reality of everything, it's like everyone's doing everything the wrong way all the time. Nobody really cares. The world's on fire and everyone's just having a party. You know, and it's like, you know, I think that's why maybe we struggle so much because we see the reality of things, I feel. Yeah. And I was talking to Dr. Megan Neff on the Different Minds podcast, which I would highly recommend anybody listening to go check that out. But I was talking about my experience because I had a very big fascination with understanding neurotypicals and why they did things. And I kind of, I kind of got to the conclusion that I think just neurotypicals just don't necessarily care too much for certainty around things. Like they're very willing to accept things for what they think they are rather than like going through and like testing it and really getting like a concrete answer to things. It's like group conversations. People say things like read the room, all of that stuff. But it's less about the actual content of the conversation. And like people just kind of emotionally react to each other. And quite often, people will agree with something if it feels right, not necessarily if it is right. And so you got lots of situations where you can have a great meeting and you can kind of, you know, I don't really understand what's going on. And there's kind of a lot of different different things. And like it just seems like at the end of the meeting that everyone's on the same page, and they will say that they're on the same page, but they're not. And you talk to individuals from that conversation, they don't know. They just kind of have their own idea of what happened. It's all amazing, man. Most people operate based in fear. You know, most people operate based in fear. That's why nobody really knows how the meeting went, because everyone's too afraid to actually say they don't know what's going on. And actually talk about it. And admit that, hey, like this doesn't make sense. Let's talk.  There's a song by Incubus called Drive that is pretty pertinent to kind of what you're saying and what we're talking about. I don't know if you've heard it, but essentially the song is you know. That'll be good for our end of the episode song. Yeah, that would be.    And I feel like kind of what you're saying, what I'm saying is that, you know, most people just allow their lives to be driven for them. They don't actually do the driving themselves because it's easier to just go along with it than it is to be like, Hey, you know, I don't like the direction things are going, let me take the wheel here. Yeah. Yeah. And it's, it's the funny thing is it's like, I don't, I don't, I haven't heard anyone say this before, but I've been on YouTube a lot. And there's a lot of things kind of going around. You had this whole kind of like alpha male kind of space kind of idea concept that came up.  And like, I'm pretty convinced that like sigma males or like the way that people characterize it, I think it's just autistic people. Like just, can you explain more what a sigma male is for me? Because I'm not too caught off guard. Yeah. It's, I'm just curious. And I need you to know. Well, alpha male. It's tingling, man. This information, I don't know. Well, the alpha male is kind of this idea of this larger than life person that goes and like dominates and controls everybody in a social setting and sigma, I guess, like someone who wants to have full control over their life, but doesn't impose it on other people. So it's, it's, it's, I mean, it's similar, but the slight difference is power. Yeah. And it's, is what I, is kind of what I hear.  And I was just thinking like, Oh, that sounds very PDA. Like, don't want to enforce things out of a people, but I'm so PDA. I, um, yeah, no, I totally am. I coat, I have to coat with it all the time, you know, like even work, like I have a great employer. I love my job. I choose my job, all that stuff, but it's a demand.  I make other people happy. It gives me something good to do during the day, but, you know, just deep down in my autism bones and the way that it works, it's like, it's a demand that I'm forced to work because like I said, this world is designed really dumb. We should not be forced to be tied to a building for eight hours a day, just to have a roof over our heads and be able to provide food and eat and drink. Like, you know, all that is just so silly to me, like it's basic human needs that we're talking about. And we have to literally forfeit eight hours of our lives every day, regardless of whether or not it's something you enjoy doing, you still have to do that in order to have money to pay for things that you need to live. And that's just useful. Yeah, yeah, it's just so silly to me, you know, I don't know. No, I completely get that. So PDA is for anybody kind of the idea of PDA pathological demand avoidance. It's not necessarily a aggressive sort of defensive kind of mindset. It's very much based on expectations that people have on you and expectations that people put on you cause people with PDA a lot of anxiety. So they tend to naturally just have an aversion to that, you know, so a lot of the ways that you get through it with kids who are PDA is that you suggest things or is that you have a conversation and you decide things together or like so usually even suggesting things to me is doesn't work. Like you have to be very Yeah, I'm sorry. My PDA is so bad. Like if I'm unregulated and like my girl is like, hey, you know, why don't you know, have you thought about me be doing this? I'll be like, I don't want to hear words you just said. Like you just you're trying to influence what I'm going through right now. Like my brain just immediately is like, I don't care. You see, it's a complex PDA. Yeah, like, and I have to get to a certain point in like my regulation stages to be able to hear something like that. But what does work for me as silly as it is, especially if it's, you know, my wife, who I love and trust is if she just does whatever it is, she's trying to ask me to do. Then like because I love her and she's the person for me, my body is just like, okay. So, you know, the PDA you can't ask or suggest me something. But if you just do it, then it's okay. It tends to tends to be with a lot of like adults that I know with PDA. I don't I don't know many to be honest with you. But like, for me, it's it's a lot easier when people ask me for help. If they're like, can you help me with this? I'm like, oh, yeah, I'd love to help you. That'd be great. It has to be a question. It has to be like a genuine like, like, I can I can tell like yourself when people are trying to get around you PDA, but if someone's like, can you help me with this? It's like, it's pretty cool. Yeah, I struggle with that at work, dude, like all the time.  And I told him today, like, I'm so grateful. And I'll talk amazing about him and the place that I work on this podcast. And I hope he listens because he's a large reason why I'm here today. You know, he pays for my health care for me. He's accommodating. I wear I literally wear sunglasses and earbuds in a hat all day at work, interacting with clients and patients. And he just he lets me be me and I do a great job, you know, and that's kind of the give and take with autism and ADHD, right? It's like, if you just kind of let us do our thing and be who we need to be and do what we need to do will be some of the best people you'll ever have in their life. But you know, we do have a certain set of requirements that we need to live by in a certain way of operating that needs to be respected.  And he asks me nice.   And then I take a deep breath, I use a little bit of coping skills and I go ahead and I do what I need to do. But then that's sometimes where, you know, my autism will kind of get in the way because it kind of builds up over time all of these demands, you know, and then like, I'm not because I've had a bad day, but because it's just like, I've had so many demands on me, and I've coped for so long that it just my body has to get rid of it somehow. Yeah. Deep breathing is helpful in these situations. I guess somewhat along the lines of that, would you be happy with moving to the next question? Oh, just that. Yeah, okay. Yeah, whatever you want. I'm sorry. We're just having a good time, I feel. Yeah, right. No, I'm not okay with that. Every two days. Just ask me the question. If you just asked it, it'd be fine. So I know you said that you were diagnosed kind of with bipolar with when you were younger, but I'd really like to understand like the medication aspect of things, the therapy aspect of things as someone who is, you know, looking back at it as someone who is, you know, diagnosed autistic, it's good to, it'd be cool to like understand, I guess, what that experience is like for you. Like, it's just, there's just so much to embottled there. So maybe about the medication. Constantly being gaslit, I guess, you know, constantly being gaslit would be maybe the best word, but yeah, no, like, it was just all so crazy because I was like 12 when they put me on medication, which is still way too young, you know, by, by psychology standards and law today actually says you can't put anyone under the age of 16 on any type of antidepressant or antipsychotic medication or anti-seizure unless they actually have a seizure disorder.  And then I didn't react well to that. Then I was put on another one. I'm not 100% sure. Trilipital, I think. That's the one I ended on. Yeah. So like, yeah, like, so there was like depicate and that was horrible. And then there was another one in between depicate and triliptol. And that one was horrible too. And then triliptol. And this is all to like help regulate my mood, right? Because they think I have a mood disorder, not realizing that I have a regulation disorder, not a mood disorder, right? Like, I'm always in a good mood, to be honest with you generally, like I, I'm just a happy, okay, like I want to be here.  That's why it's been so hard to not find any relief because deep down I'm loving, you know, I want to be here type of a guy.  It was a regulation problem, right? You know, regulation is different than mood. I can regulate my mood, but I can't regulate emotions. And that's different. So they were putting me on the mood stabilizers and they didn't work and triliptol is an anti convulsant and mood stabilizer. They put me on that one. At least that is it. Yeah, and it worked because it, you know, it slowed down my brain, right? So it's like the first two didn't work because they were, you know, true, like mood stabilizers and antipsychotics.   And it dulled down, you know, the speed at which my thoughts can form and, you know, how I can move and pretty much everything, right? And they started at a low dose and, you know, over the years, still having regulation behavior issues, right? Because nothing ever got fixed because I was a bipolar. I had a regulation problem. I had autism and ADHD and really bad PDA and, you know, my family would like make it worse.   And they're like, that's not acceptable behavior, you know, what's your explanation as to why? And, you know, I would be like, yeah, so this is what I would say. I'm like, I didn't do anything wrong. So my dad, I'm eating, I would be like, I'm eating, I remember this, like, because I do remember certain things, but I'd be like, I'm just eating my dinner, you know, after school, after baseball, I'm just having dinner, having my food. And then my dad asks me to pass the salt. And I'm just like, here, and I just kind of give it to him. And he's like, what the fuck's with your attitude? Like, why are you just being like so defined, just being like here and throwing it at me like that?  And I'm like, nothing. You asked for the salt. Here's the salt. What's up with your tone, Brandon? Why are you being defined like that and being so mean to me and like thrown and thrown the salt? I'm, I'm not eating. You asked me for salt. Here's my salt. Like not realizing that I'm in my own world, right? Tone and body language aren't natural. So I'm in my own world eating dinner after school. My dad asked me for the salt. So I'm just like, yeah, here you go. No, that's a bottle effect as well with school.  And then, you know, after school or after work even, like, if you're trying to get that time to regulate it, you can all just just blow up or like you can even just feel safe in that environment to some degree or like, comfortable. And then that that just kind of allows you to let the pressure off a bit. And then it all just kind of bubbles over. And that's exactly what why that would happen at dinner, right? Because exactly like you said, like I'm in my own world, I'm self-regulating. Dad asked me for salt. I give it to him, but I'm autistic. So my body language and tone aren't correct. And maybe the behavior of the way I gave to him wasn't. Then he's now telling me I'm defiant. And I'm, you know, a lot of these things that I'm not, I'm saying, no, he's getting louder, which is now causing for like auditory over stimulation. Plus, emotions make me very dysregulated. I can feel that he's angry.  He's telling me I'm bad for throwing the salt. I just got done with school. I'm trying to regulate. So you know what? I'm going to throw the salt now because he's telling me that I'm throwing the salt. I'm soft at this point, you know, it's been too much. And now I'm having a melt down. I throw the salt at the wall.  And then, you know, I tell this to my therapist, what happens? And then they're like, you're wrong. You're hallucinating. That's not reality. Like you need to be nicer. You need to pay attention more. Like there's words and words and volume can't make you feel and do things like that. You're having hallucinations and cognitive distortions. Yeah. And it's interesting about like the way that you're talking about tone because I think quite often a lot of autistic people like we because we have a lot of experiences where like we don't understand I guess exactly what where the tone is coming from but we do notice that something's different. And you know, one of the things that just from going up and for going through experiences like any change in tone that isn't just overly like if someone's just talking overly positive and then there is a change in tone like I just assume that something bad's really happened or like it was me.  You start dissociating a little bit. You're like, what's going on?  I'm always asking if they don't give you a reasonable explanation for it and they don't explain it or they just say and like, oh, that is fine. It makes it worse and you're like, well, something's happening. I don't know what it is. You're not telling me. So like, please do please do. I'm really happy to hear you saying this. Yeah. Yeah. Well, because it's just that's exactly what happens to me. So and this is the first time I've ever really spoken with someone like this who has autism as well. So, you know, you just explaining that to me and not you know, the people listening, hopefully it helps them as well.  So it's cool to hear somebody else for the first time really kind of say that in a conversation. And that happens with my wife at home at all the time. Sometimes it causes problems, you know, and it's like not even really her fault, right? Because we'll just be having a conversation and then, you know, her tone or her voice will change, you know, very slightly or stop smiling or like, yeah, something slight. And then literally I have that panic and I'm like, what's wrong? And she's like, nothing. And I'm like, put your tone changed, but nothing, nothing's wrong. And then I'm still, I'm doing your sound like, well, something's wrong because that wasn't normal. That's not how it usually sounds like, you know, because I still like, I don't know what any of it means and my brain understands like the rhythm and the pattern of it. So if the rhythm or pattern is off, even in just a slight amount, whether it's the body language, like you said, or the tone or the cadence in which someone's speaking, then it trips everything off. And there could be completely no reason other than maybe they needed to take another breath, or they needed to, you know, think about a word before they spoke it. And they had a different thought about something and they were like, oh, that doesn't sound good. Like just a random four or like, you know, maybe they're thinking about work tomorrow or like, but because they don't always express it directly. It's like, it's, it's a lot.  It's, it's almost like being at you are like this kind of being sensitive, but it's not like in like a needy way. I guess it's like, you just know what's going on. So I'm safe and I know how to behave. Yeah. Yeah, that's really what happened. What it is for me, like, I need to know how to act. I need to know how to act. I need to know what to expect so I can react. Sure. Sure. What about like sport, baseball and gym and things like that? Because I know that when we, when we spoke, you were telling me about save my life, sort of the role that yeah, that it played in played for you. And so I think you told me about sort of some of the issues that happened around college and university, which, you know, so I guess like it would be good to know more about the sport side of things, but also a bit about uni life. Yeah. No, honestly, I'll briefly touch on sport. Not because it doesn't mean anything, but because the gym and training is much bigger than baseball ever was for me. And I'll use baseball as a way to get into university.  It was my thing. I've always loved to be physically active. I've always needed to as, you know, I'm sitting here the whole time moving. I just am always on the go. And so baseball was, yeah, exactly. Exactly. And so, you know, baseball was huge for me. It gave me that outlet. It was an amazing sport.  We were all talking about the same things. We were all doing the same things. It was, you know, it made sense. And I had friends because of it and all that stuff. And I was really, really good at it. And going into high school, I was great. I was getting scattered by colleges. You know, high school is too much. I hate it. So all I did was really focus on baseball. I didn't really pay attention in class. I didn't care about anything, not because I'm not smart, but, you know, all my diagnosis is and misdiagnosis at the same time. You know, I just didn't care. I wasn't really capable of caring. And I just focused on baseball. Like, and it's really good for making friends because on one level is something that you're interested in. So you're like, Oh, these people are interested. Why interesting? I can talk about this. But also the endorphins that you get, like the release of anandamide in your system from like getting high from exercise. You know, it's good. It's like a social lubricant, like, like alcohol, but it's like a natural kind of thing. So like, I'm like numb to that. So my like, it's so weird. Like my the way that things present to me is like, my reward system isn't really the best.   Like there's nothing left over when it's over with. Like I just, I just did it all. But it does something for me when I'm not doing it anymore. So like if I wasn't physically active and I didn't train like I did, it would, I wouldn't be as okay as I am when I'm not training. And so that's why I do what I do. And I love to do it not because of how I feel after, but because I know how I'm going to act and behave once I do do it. And that's been something that's really hard for me with my diagnosis is to like just get things done in general. Because, you know, how hard is it to rely on, you know, like three weeks in the future all the time? Because that's, you know, kind of what it takes with working out, right? It takes about three weeks, four weeks for you to really like see and feel, you know, the difference in your everyday life.  I don't really get that, you know, initial, oh, you know, I did a good photo shoot today and, you know, made a few hundred dollars and they love my pictures like, whoa, like that's not that does like, I did a good job. I got money and someone's happy, cool. Like, you know, so it's weird for me with that. But yeah, now that you mention it, it is very much like, I think maybe it's another like sapphymic thing, it probably is.  But like, I probably do feel, I probably do feel like quite good, but I don't recognize that I do. And so I don't like, like internalize that it's it's very much a thing of like, right, I've ticked off my list, I feel comfortable that I've done the thing that I do. And that's good. It's like your routine thing. Yeah. It's good for you. Someone's like, you train really well. I was like, cool. Thanks. But training and baseball, man, they were everything to me. And I'm a big proponent like of people in general training, but I really do believe that people with autism need to. I think I think it's a need. I do not think it's still regulating. It needs to be done. And what you overcome when you're doing it is translatable to everything, right? So like, instead of going to therapy and doing exposure therapy to sound, let's go to the gym and train. Let's do exposure therapy, doing something positive, you know, with your time and with your body and with your mind around a group of people who are there to do something similar to you and that are there to help you and people who are like you. And why don't we do it that way instead of, you know, like I said, sitting in the therapy room and listening to different sounds and like, you know, kids aren't going to be as susceptible to it. It doesn't work, like with the lights not at all. We don't. It didn't work with me. We don't have it like it being exposed to things over a long period of time. Usually people habituate to it and stop like kind of experiencing it to us to an extent or like the brain tunes out. But for us, it's not like that. Like it's exactly. And I mean, that's why I still, you know, I wear earbuds when I'm training. I wear sunglasses.   But, you know, training it, you know, people need to do it. And they need to, you know, it's like, there's a hard line, right? When it comes to autism and like sensory sensitivity and stuff like that, there's a hard line between like, let's make sure that you're safe and you feel good. And let's make sure that you don't allow this to dictate your future and dictate, you know, how you act and how you live in this world. Because, you know, there are certain things that are disabling to me, but they're not because of my sensory problems or because of my PDA or anything, because I will not let anything get in my way of doing what I want to do, regardless of what that thing is. Like I'll light myself on fire to do what I want to do. And, you know, that's something that I hope that I can maybe bring to this community isn't necessarily, you know, that these struggles aren't real because they are and that it doesn't hurt and that it isn't overstimulating and that you're not maybe going to have them melt down when it's over with when you're at home, but that it's worth it because either in my mind, you light yourself on fire or you sit at home and drown. There's no in between.   I think I think there's definitely like, as you said, things that you can do to help yourself and like I think, especially starting things that are new to you, you know, taking it slowly once once you get into it. But, you know, just the general experience of going to the gym like, or even with fighting, to be honest, I've never had an experience where, you know, I've had meltdowns, I've had panic attacks before fights. I really enjoyed doing it, but it's just a lot of pressure on me. It's more of a social pressure and the expectation that you put on yourself. Social pressure and expectation. So, you know, that that sometimes called that, but I never pulled out of a competition. I've been kicked extremely hard. I never pulled out of that fight. I never, you know, at the gym, there's only been probably a couple of times that I've stopped working out because of like the sensory or the social environment. But that's because, you know, I couldn't speak and I couldn't move and, you know, I had to go out. And that's what I mean. Like sometimes that's like, that's going to happen.  And also what happens when you're at home? I should be doing something. I should be at the gym. I should do this. I should do that. That's what I mean by drowning.  But you're not drowning. You at least tried. Yeah. Well, I guess sort of on a similar note to that, I mean, I think we were talking about Yeah, I'm sorry. I'm not answering your questions directly. No, no, it's fine. We're just I'm just flowing with, you know, No, don't worry about it, man. It's I suppose it's different, like, in a different way, I suppose, because you were talking about sort of staying at home and drowning. I have a lot of experience with that. And, you know, being in those states where you don't have a routine, because you can't cope and you can't cope because you don't have a routine. And so it's overwhelming to create a routine, because you're in such a bad space. Yeah, I get you. And you reach for those kind of blanket methods that are quite easy to, like, reduce your overall anxiety or negative feelings. Like, no, for me, it was nicotine or alcohol was something that, you know, I picked up at university that I did that, you know, for quite a while, which wasn't healthy, but not in like a party way, like at home kind of, I need to try and relax that kind of way. I know that you mentioned that you had some experiences with alcohol and potentially like some some liver issues due to like the medication interactions. Yeah, so thanks for, thanks for circling me back to, you know, baseball in high school and college. So yeah, no college, right. So I graduated high school, 1.7 GPA, baseball was life, couldn't play in college because of it. And so I go to a four year university. Somehow I got into a four year university, I have absolutely no clue how most likely my mom was a large part of it, because she was a counselor and in the school systems for a long time. So yeah, no, she's why I graduated. They weren't going to graduate me from this private school because of how poor I behaved and how bad my grades were. But she was able to get me to graduate, which is cool. And then she also got me into a four year university. But I stopped playing baseball, you know, so I kind of had no reason to live in my mind. I'm at university for my first semester. And it's all way too much, right? Like I'm by myself for the first time, I'm not playing sports, I'm in the middle of strangers.  And I'm like, all right, that's pretty simple, like I just drink and hang out with frat bros and girls. Okay, like that makes sense.  And it, you know, looking back at it, it wasn't to like cope. It wasn't in a, in a, it wasn't to try to cope with how it was feeling. It was because I thought that's what would like, I wanted to fit it, you know, like I didn't like school was too much, like going to class navigating campus, like all that was overwhelming and too much. But I also, I really wanted friends and I was upset because I wasn't playing baseball. And you know, that's what everyone was doing. And everybody liked me when I was drinking. And, you know, after a while, I noticed it made the autism a little bit worse, or a little bit easier to deal with, right? But it wasn't like the initial thing. It was just trying to fit into a new world where I had no clue. I, I find that I think it's something that I kind of learned over over a period of time. But it's not necessarily the alcohol helped me socialize more. I think it maybe gave me a bit of relief from anxiety. But like, I think the thing that I like the most about like the party, how like house party kind of atmosphere of things is because people were so much more relaxed and expressive. Like people, I could see what people were thinking in the way that people said stuff on their face so easily. That was too much. That's too much for me. It's too much. Yeah, I was like, Oh my God, like these people that I've been talking to in the sober state for a while and now they're drinking and like expressing all these emotions. I understand. I understand like, what they're trying to get across to me a bit more. Yeah, I still didn't. It was still too much for me. Like, and like drinking like parties for me, it was because they had rules and that's how I wear friends were, you know, and that's how friends drank and like that's how I don't know if I want to say bad because I don't want to say autism is bad. But you know, in terms of like my level with autism, like it's at the point where I would, I was doing these things not, you know, for any other reason other than because I was trying to fit in and do the right thing. And then things made sense to me, you know, like we went to the party, everybody drank, everyone's going to behave and act this way. Like I might have sex with somebody that would be cool. Like, you know, right. And so it's like, I know what to expect. I know how to act and people are pretty nice to me when I'm drunk.  And, you know, that's why I did what I did. It wasn't, you know, necessarily to, to cope. But like I said, like the more I did it in college, the more I felt that it helped me cope with autism. And so it turned from being just this thing to try to fit in.  And like, you know, maybe I can be okay. Like in public and stuff. And, you know, that's when my liver started to fail because I was on, you know, Try Liptal, which is going through the liver. Yeah. And so it wasn't a good combination. And I got really sick. Luckily, I did.  And I was really scared. I gained about 50 pounds at that point. And about two weeks after my recovery, you know, I was at home. I didn't go to a spring semester in college. I took it off. I worked at a restaurant as a dishwasher, which was too much. Oh my God, it was terrible. My parents made me do it. They're like, you're not in school, you got to work. Like, you know, that's what I mean. I had no choice other than to survive with the way that I was raised.  And, you know, I was going to get in good shape and I was going to eat better.     So, you know, like, I'm going to take care of myself. And this is going to be, you know, it makes sense to me, let me start training, let me take care of my body, let me take care of my mind, you know, and take control of this. Very dependent on the routine. Incredible. Like, I feel like autistic people are designed for sport because, like, how else are you going to find someone who's just going to hyper focus on something on a regular basis? And like, you don't have to like encourage them to do it, like they want to.  Yeah. Because I don't want to be forced to perform. I just want to do, I want to do it as good as I can and better than anyone else just because I want to. Totally. Not because I have to beat you. You know what I mean?  Won't do it. I was like that with, I mean, I wasn't so much like that in international competitions because I didn't know anybody. And I didn't really care about what the person that was fighting thought about me. But like in local competitions, like I've had, you know, some of like the head coaches kind of come up to me and talk to me at like training camps. And I say like, Thomas, you perform really well when you're actually in competitions, like against people like abroad and stuff. But like just generally, like when you fight people in training, or you fight people at local competitions, you just like don't seem to be as like, I just, I basically just used it as an opportunity to get my anger and frustration out about life. So, you know, that's why I struggle with baseball. Yeah. Yeah, as hard as you can, just like, it's like, you know, it's like, depression ball. You're right. Like, I would get angry at the people I was pitching, you know, because I was a pitcher. So I get angry, you know, when I was pitching and try to throw the ball through, you know, so hard that it just went all over the place.  Like I said, because it's fun and I enjoy it. And I like to be good at it because I like to be good at it, not because you want me to be good at it or not because the game needs to be want not because like, I need to strike this guy out. But like, because I want to, like I like it. I'm good at it. I'm going to strike him out because I want to strike him not because the coach tells me to not because, you know, I need to or else we're going to lose the game. Like, I'm doing this because this is what I want to do. And then once it changed from that to we've got to win this game, Brandon, get your head together. Like you've got to pitch perfect. Like, you know, you have to perform today. Oh my gosh. It's like, like, excuse me, I'm here to have fun and do my thing. That's resonating. I'm not going to do that at all. The way that people train me, like they pretty much don't do anything with me because they don't need to because I will like my baseline level of training is go as hard as you can. As soon as I get in there, we're just warming up having a jog. I'm like sprinting around in the circle just to like, you know, but I don't know whether that's because I want to or I just don't want people to tell me that I'm doing something wrong or I'm not hard trying hard enough for. So it's almost like a preemptive way of avoiding those PDA situations. It's just like, Thomas do this a bit differently or, you know, just kick a bit harder. And I'm just like, Hmm, what do you mean? No, I'm not going to. It totally could be that. Just ignore them, give them back chat. Like, like when you go hard in your training, like when so, like when I'm physically training, I go, I go really, really hard because I love to, but also because this is kind of the weird gift with autism for me. I can't tell when my muscles are tired. Yeah, me too. I can't. I'm not very good with blimp. It doesn't feel heavy after a certain point in time. Like once I'm going and I'm in the zone and I'm training, like there could be, you could put 800 pounds on my back and ask me to squat and it'll feel like 500 because I'm just, I'm in the zone. Like, and then once it's over with, then I'll be hurt. Then like, oh, she did too much. But when I'm actually doing it, I don't get that tired sensation from my body until I literally can't move. So it's taken a while for me to learn how to train.  Well, it's twofold. Like I like the pain a lot as like, I don't know why, but I really like the pain of training. I think maybe just because it helps me to be present.    So that way, like everything else is just kind of like, you know, a part of it, I guess. And yeah, it makes me feel present.  And so I only stop when my muscles literally are like, like, I'll go to get another rep and the barge is like, will not move. And then I'm like, hello, brother. I'm lucky that my body allows for it. And it's taken me a long time to learn how to make it sustainable. Because I got a lot of I accrued a lot of injuries over my career with weight training because because of the autism, like not knowing when to stop, not knowing what too much is and just loving it and doing it too much. And then also here's the flip side. I didn't know how to move my body because it's not instinctual to me. So like, in my mind, I'm mimicking like videos and pictures of people doing the exercises while I'm doing it. But that's not how your body moves. That's how it looks in the mirror on TV. And so I'm doing it wrong, even though it looks right on video, but it's not because I'm not doing it right. And so I've I got really hurt for a long time. And that's another reason why I'm lucky to be working where I work at timeline. Because it's a physical therapy sports performance practice. And he noticed like right away, my body did not move the right way. And he's like, I'm going to give you free treatment until we fix this. And so he's treated me for free and taught me how to use my body the right way and improve my motor patterns and let me like teach me how to program the right amount of exercise so I can still exhaust myself the way that I like to, but that it's not negatively impacting my health. Yeah, sorry for I just wanted to make sure I get all this out because you know, part of part of my ADHD is like, if I don't just let the train roll, like it's not going to roll anymore. Yeah. But yeah, so it trainings everything to me and it taught me my social skills too. You know, that's another reason why training means so much. And I, you know, I encourage people with autism to train because it was kind of the last thing for me. You know, I was fired from pretty much every job that I ever had because, but not pretty much.  And then like I'd get in trouble or they'd be like, Hey, you did this wrong and my PDA would be like, no, I didn't, you know, and then I'd, you know, get in trouble. And the gym was the one place, you know, that taught me these social skills that taught me how to better myself. It did make me feel better. What I learned in the gym with the discipline translated into life was like the meals and, you know, just being disciplined in my routines.  And then it was the one place I could work where I could overcome all my autism symptoms because I love the gym that much, right? It's my special interest. So like, I can follow dumbbells because I love the gym and I want to like help people, you know, train in the gym. But even that wasn't enough after a while, you know, I got fired from every gym job I had until I worked at this place called soldier fit.  But I would not be who I am today if it wasn't for this organization as well. They took he, you know, hired me as a general manager. And the first like year was so hard for me because I had autism. And I didn't know it, right? And so he's having to teach me how to like, talk to customers and how to talk to employees and how to sell memberships and how to behave myself. And like all of this stuff. And luckily, because it was a military company, they had all of these videos on training for how to talk to customers, how to talk to, you know, your employees, how to sell memberships, how to do yeah, literal blueprints to life. And then not only that, but they provided me books. They gave me books to read that helped me learn how to have conversations and, you know, how the world works and how money works and how businesses work. And so, you know, I'm learning all of these amazing skills that they're working with me on, you know, for four years. And, you know, that's really what helped me to kind of be functional because before that, I had no clue about anything because nobody ever really took the time to teach me these things. And somehow I found that, you know, in a small business in Northern Virginia. And then again, I found it, you know, down here in Florida, working for a timeline. And so I'm just very grateful, you know, for the gym. And that's, you know, why I encourage people to to get into it because it's a great environment. Saved my life taught me everything that I know. Definitely. And I think, you know, sport of any kind, as I said, great for finding people, good, similar interests to you. What's your favorite body part to train? Actually, my least favorite is arms. I really don't like training, like isolation exercises with arms. I just find it, I don't know what it is. It's boring. They're so small. It's such like, to me, it's such a small body. It's like almost a waste of time. They're like so small, right? I'd rather train legs or my back. Something that you lift a lot with. Yeah, most of compounds, to be honest. I'm, I really like at the moment, the AD press, kind of a very high inclined press. That's been, been really fun for me. I really like, I really like doing wide grip pull-ups at the moment. I maxed out the lat pull-down machine, like a few years back. I did like 15 reps on all the pins. All the pins. The whole stack. Yeah. I actually couldn't do it anymore now because I was, I think I weighed about 140 kilos then. I was quite, quite hefty in a, in a fat way as well. I'll forgive you. So I could actually pull it down, but it got to a point where I had to get my dad to like hang on the bar so that I could pull it down and get it like set up. So I was just like, all right, I need to find something else to do. And wide grip pull-ups, they're absolutely devastating for it. Like my back. It's just crazy. Oh, they're horrible. In a good way. You know, horribly good. I love the, I love the ones that hurt the most, you know. I'm just always, I'm always put myself in pain, man. Like I love barbell squats, deadlifts, like. I love deadlifts. Don't like squats. You know, heavy barbell rows.  I'm not even kidding.   Is, is there anything on me that you think I need to fix? And she's like, no, you're beautiful, honey. And I'm like, no, like criticize me. Give me some really great. Yeah, give me something. I'm taking her on. Exactly. She's like, well, your calves are kind of small. And I'm like, I'm not speaking to you for a week. Go away. And then I started squatting. But when you, when you do that, like, I think it, yeah, even to a certain extent, like it's almost, I think sometimes when, when I ask for negative criticism and people don't give it, I don't believe them. But if they give me at least something to work on, I'm kind of like, okay, right. So that's what I need to work on. And I'm like, okay, okay, I can work on that. That sounds good to me. Like I'm very happy doing that. I think I was the same, same way with my chest. Like I'm really shoulder tricep dominant, like very much so. But the chest exercises have always been quite, quite difficult. You know, I, I think, to be honest, I like most exercises that are just those compound moves. I, I am actually liking upright rows quite a lot because I can load them quite heavy with like a cable. And they, they hit my, my, my lateral heads and my shoulders. So that's good. And they also hit my traps. And they like, I think some people have shoulder issues with doing them. But I think it's a little bit demonized to some extent. Shoulder issues because they're not doing them. I don't do them properly. Or like even read out flies, like, I don't do read it. I don't do them properly. I literally like, do you know, like the old school chest expanders that you can get? Yeah, yeah, they were like the springs where you just like pull them apart like that. Well, I was really, I started doing them as like a, like singles at a time. So I started like just pulling them apart using like my entire upper back and my shoulders and stuff, and then letting go. And I did that for ages. And I'm at this point, because it's like a dual machine. So the, the, you can do the chest exercises. You can go up to like 130 kilos, 144 or some on this machine. And that's mostly for the chest. But because I've been doing this movement for so long and just being like, properly, just pulling it apart for strength. I can do like 134, like 15 reps, five sets with the red out fly, just like properly going for it. So I'm very proud of that. Like it's, I found it quite, I have I got to fly you over here so we can train, fly you across the pond and get that would be awesome. No, I really would love to train with you. I love training, man. It's like, I, I don't know. I just love it too much.  And also, I just loved it so much at the end of the day. And so, you know, I'm feeling like about myself because I'm like, you know, why do I love training so much? Like it doesn't make any sense to me. Like I love this one realistic self torture. If I could, yeah, like if I could, if I couldn't do this, I'd be devastated.   And, you know, through therapy and the right diagnosis, you know, it all kind of makes sense to me. And, you know, that's, I accept that part of me now, you know, that's just, that's what makes me want to be I could not exist if it weren't for, you know, physical training. And I make this joke all the time that like I really do believe I was born in the wrong time period. Like, you know, my autism and ADHD would be great as a gladiator or like, you know, you know, back as it as a warrior in Sparta or something like that. Like I genuinely believe I'm just I'm not in the right time. Like that most likely is my issue. Because I've just always had, you know, I've always had that. And I've always wanted to be a protector, you know, and to help people, which is why I'd like to hop on the podcast. Can I ask you a question? Now that I think I've been wanting to think. What's, I guess, just like for you, what's your biggest struggle with autism? Like, what is like maybe the one symptom or like just the one area of life or the one part about yourself that like gives you the most, I wouldn't say this disabled disability, but just like the most like struggle day to day, or like the biggest thing for you. Number one, I would say other people. That's like, like if the people around me understand me and who I am and my needs is never an issue. It's kind of hard for me to separate out autism from mental health. Because I think most of the issues that I have when my mental health is good. I don't have an issue. It's fine. I'm good. Like, I think for the longest time it was elexifamia. Just because it's it's difficult to understand yourself and life and process things when you don't know how you're feeling about things. But I'd say nowadays, it's probably a lot to do with the executive function stuff. sensory issues. I've had a lot of experience traveling, not having my headphones, a lot of experience at school, a lot of experience at taekwondo competitions. It's not pleasant, but it doesn't cause me any like, it doesn't disable me like in a way that I would get so overloaded that I would have like a meltdown. Sometimes does. But very, very rarely.  Not not. Is it okay that I'm asking you? No, no, I'm sure I'm an open book. So it's it's good. Yeah. Well, I didn't know how your brain worked. Like if it was able to, like if you were expecting me to ask you, you know, I was trying to be considerate of, you know, your autism and stuff. Oh, it's cool, man. I'm good with that. I think brushing my teeth. That's always been a hard thing. Grooming was a hard thing in hygiene. It's not so much anymore. I've kind of got into a routine of doing that, although I don't tend to when I haven't been to the gym. What about it is hard?  If I'm in here, I might as well be pretty much. I've kind of managed to get over that but everything is tied to the gym. I get home from the gym. It's time to shower. That's an indication. I don't want to be sweating, but that's uncomfortable for me. So I do that and I'm like, oh, I could just brush my teeth in the shower if I want to. I'll do that. That sounds good.  I go to my room. I'm like, okay, I'm feeling quite clean.  And if it's not stacked in that way and it's already part of a set routine, it's so much more difficult. It makes sense. It's interesting because cooking is difficult for me. It's interesting because like the hygiene part is really easy for me. Not because I don't struggle with sensory problems, but because not being clean is so dysregulating that I would rather deal with all of the problems with getting clean. So like I shave every part of my body except for my beard.  Got to get it passed. This is the... Yeah. Well, I cut myself constantly.  And after I do something for a long enough period of time, my bandwidth for overstimulation gets met. And so like I kind of short circuit and I get like overwhelmed out of nowhere.  And when I was a kid, this is the large reason why I thought I would self harm myself because, you know, I'd be shaving like my legs and my arms and I'd have all these like cuts on myself, not because I was self harming, but because I have sensory issues from all the hair on me and all that. And I'm cutting myself because of my disability is not because I want to be cutting myself. So that's a large reason why I have a beard. And honestly, the other reason too is like, I don't have to pretend to make facial expressions anymore. You know, the beard kind of covers up most of them. So it gives me kind of like a, it's like my mask almost in a way, you know, where I don't have to like be forced to be looking a certain way anymore. Yeah, that's, that's the benefit. I think definitely like people just don't expect it to have as many facial expressions or when you do do them, it's like just kind of masked a little bit. So yeah, I see that. I mean, I've had lots of issues with like, I can't shave my body. I have to like trim my hairs. The only reason why I do it is just because number one, it just helps with hygiene. If I like Mr. Shower number two, it, you know, if you're trying to do videos and take pictures of yourself to put on online, you want to make sure that it's at a length that the muscles can show properly, rather than just being in the video. Yeah, definitely. It is just the executive function. It's the transitions. It's all of that. And what, but once I'm in the role with things, I'm a mentor of isn't holding me back. It tends to be a bit easier. But I didn't even know how bad my executive functioning was until this new medication. Like, to be honest with you, because I was always in a state of constant panic, overwhelming dysregulation that like, you know, part of why I would rush to get things done wasn't necessarily because I had ADHD, but it was because it was so dysregulating and difficult for me to use my executive functioning to figure out how to open the box. Then it was to just rip the whole thing wide open as fast as it could. You know, so like, and like now that my medication is working, like I can actually like look at a box and be like, I'm getting dysregulated by looking at this box. Why am I getting dysregulated? Oh, because I don't know how to open this thing. And it takes like, you know, a prayer from God for me to be able to figure out how to get this tape off without just literally going straight up commando and ripping the box. Which is like probably part of the reason why I weight train and I'm so strong is just so I can open things easier.  It's because my executive functioning is so bad that like I'm having a panic attack while I'm doing things because of the executive functioning problems. Yeah, it's, it's interesting. I mean, when I'm kind of in a, like it's, it's, I think it very much depends on my mental state. Like, I wouldn't say that at this point in my life. Like, that I would consider myself disabled in any way, but things like cooking, that's just something that, you know, like, like you were saying about too much executive function, like literally, like, if I'm cooking, I have to prepare the day before, like mentally, not do anything. And then on the day, it's just this, this event, just this whole thing. And it's not even that much. Like it could be just using one pan, but then, oh, I've got to wait for this. And is this heated? And does this look cooked? Is it, I just check every single piece of chicken, make sure that it's not like this. If I'm giving it to somebody, I have to do all of these things. And they're like, I watch other people do it. And they're just like chucking things in. They're just like eyeballing it. And I'm just like, I don't understand how you can do this without freaking out because you don't have complete control over. I totally understand what you're saying. And like, luckily, my wife helps cook things for me. But it's very hard for me. And it's just regulating for me. But it's because the whole experience induces extreme anxiety because of the paying attention for so long. And like looking at it itself, just looking at things to me causes like causes me to get overwhelmed and to get anxious. That's another reason why I wear sunglasses is, you know, I do have extreme sensitivity to light, but also my brain gets very overwhelmed by visual stimuli very easily. So the longer I look at any one thing or the more of anything there is for me to see, the more overwhelmed I am.  But then when you transition to something like cooking, there's like 30 pieces of chicken on this thing. Just looking at that without even thinking about how to cook it is causing me to have to write that. I haven't thought about it at all. But it makes a lot of sense. Yeah, definitely. Well, yeah, it's wild. Wild ride in our heads, I guess. No, I appreciate that. I mean, it's a good way of thinking. I didn't think about like the different visual stimulation of like the cutting boards and like all the knives and the cutlery everywhere and the food and the sauces and like there's there's a lot of different I can't even remember. I can't even remember where to go either. Yeah, you know, like that, like, I'll be cooking, right? And then like, I'll be with the spatula. And now I'm done with the spatula. And it's like, oh, fuck, where like, where does the spatula go? And then I get overstimulated by trying to figure out where the spatula goes. So typically, I'll just throw it on the counter.  It's just like, it's just all over the place and where where it should be. But there's a disaster going on because I'm just trying not to burn the house down. But I can cook eggs. They're easy. Yeah. Well, I'm aware that we've been talking for quite a while. And I know we had some some other questions. But I think we briefly touched on kind of the work experience. And I think, you know, obviously, the gym was something that you talked about being really, really important in your sensory support. So I think like we've covered quite a lot and pretty much everything that I think, you know, we wanted to cover. So how do you feel like wrapping up about wrapping? Yeah, no. Yeah, I'm good, man. I hope I kept conversation well enough. You know, my brain just kind of goes the direction that it goes. And you're saying about, you know, worrying about the, well, not worrying, but like the not not being able to recall things. But you know, we've been talking for two hours about past things, you know, I need prompts. And like the thing is, man is like, I'll not remember this whole conversation, like I'll finish with this, I'll go sit with my wife now. I'm not going to remember anything that we just did until tomorrow. And then I'm going to replay this entire thing in my head, like all day tomorrow, but I won't remember it once we're done. And I really just want to say like, honestly, thank you for, you know, chatting with me, man, like it was great to hop on the podcast and, you know, hopefully help people, but selfishly, I just genuinely enjoyed talking with you. And I, I hope, you know, we keep in touch and that, you know, we continue to talk whether or not we're on a podcast or not, because this was very beneficial for me just in general.  And I enjoyed getting to know you better. Thanks, man. Likewise, you're great to talk to. And you've got a lot of good messages that I'm sure a lot of people will take a lot from and also also from from the experiences of kind of going through life, not really knowing that you're autistic and different and some of like the different things that you've had to face. It's very, very inspiring. And I'm very, very honored to have you on and we'll have to get you on at some point because I'm sure that this set up says going to be very popular. Yeah, I mean, feel free to ask questions, guys, anything that you want to know about me or anything you want me and Thomas to talk about because I feel as though we kind of have two really cool different perspectives and that's part of why this conversation was so cool because we're very similar, but very different at the same time. And I feel like that's part of what made this conversation happen well. And I'm an open book guys, like, you know, I was telling Thomas earlier, and I don't know if I've said this on the podcast yet, but Superman is a huge idol of mine. It's he has been from the time I was born. Like I never really had anyone to look up to. I didn't understand social rules, right? I have autism, but, you know, Superman's an alien on earth and he has sensory issues. He hears everything when he, you know, his eyes hurt. He shoots out laser beams. Like he always has to watch the way that he's walking and breathing because he might break the building with how strong he is.  And so that's, you know, what I hope to do for everybody. So, you know, if anyone has questions for me or Thomas, like, let him roll, man. Indeed. Indeed. And I suppose on that note, like, do you have anywhere that people would like you'd like people to go to? If they want to ask you questions or any like links or anything that you'd like to share with us?  And the reason I wanted to have that handle is because I just want to encourage people to be themselves, you know, and I'm not afraid to put out there that I am the way that I am and that I have the struggles that I have and that I feel and think the way that I feel and think. So that's why my handle's that way. And I would encourage people to, you know, kind of get behind the movement a little bit and just be yourself. Like, don't worry about what anyone says or thinks, like believe in yourself because that is the only reason that I'm here and coherent today is because from the day I was born until very recently, I knew that I was right and that there was something going on and that I was going to make it and I was going to figure it out.  Brilliant, brilliant. And I will, I will put that link to your profile down below. And if you are, it's all inspired by myself or Brandon about the gym stuff or fitness. I would love to see some more like Autism related gym. I could do a fitness episode with you too. If you wanted like an educational one, like, you know, what are some, you know, easy things that people can do to start to, you know, get into the gym over time because that's what I do with my clients. I don't actually work with pro athletes. I don't like it.  So definitely be down for the nutrition aspect of things. I think that's, that's the one thing that I don't do very well. Actually, it's hard to tell for me, dude, because of the autism, but I figured out a kind of a system and, you know, I'd be very happy to, you know, share that with people. Awesome. Well, hold that thought. We will definitely get to do another fitness podcast soon. And guys, if you have enjoyed this episode, make sure to give it a rate. And if you are on YouTube, hit a subscribe, if you're on Spotify, give it a follow, see that you get updates on when new episodes come out. If you want to check up on how I'm doing, what I'm doing with my day, perhaps check out some of my daily blogs that I do, please head over to at Tom Stanley UK on Instagram. I do do a lot of stuff over there. I do post some stuff on YouTube and you know, I try to, but it's a little bit of a different platform. So if you want like the full kind of breakdowns and blogs that I do, Instagram is the place to go. And if you are listening to this and you have an organization or a business and you want me to get in, want to have me in to do some training, do some speaking on a certain things, maybe you're having an event and you need to speak up, you can always contact me through my email hi at Tom Stanley.co.uk. Well, that was very coherently said. Usually I have to do that a couple of takes, but I'm tired. Yeah, yeah. Well, um, last thing before we finish up a song of the day, you gave me a song of the day earlier, which was something drive. Yeah. So I mean, there's really, can I give you two songs? Go on. Go on. I can't pick. So I would say drive by incubus would be a good song for anyone with autism to listen to. So, you know, hopefully they take it and they, you know, drive themselves instead of letting anything else drive them. And then the Onit song by Adelidus Way is kind of like my personal anthem. Adelidus. Ah, there we go. There it is. It's your personal anthem. Is that kind of like? Yeah, I play that song every day in the gym. Yes. Yes. Yeah, I listen to it at least, I will a lot during the day. It's the first song I put on in the gym because even though I love it, you know, due to the autism and PDA, I hate going to the gym initially. And I have to get through the first like five to 10 minutes. And the only way I can do that is by listening to these, this type of music that, you know, kind of helps me to get into that space and that rhythm of, you know, where I want to be. I'm just, I'm just having a little bit of listening. It sounds quite cool. I might add it to my gym playlist. I hope you do. I hope you do. I love music, man. Like it's on my ears all day, 24 seven. It's how I regulate. The words help me regulate. The sound helps me regulate. Like I got a, I have a song for every emotion. I have a meltdown song if you want me to share it with you. It's, it's loud. Do you like loud music or? Um, I do like loud music. I like metal a little bit or no. Yeah, I love metal. Yeah, it's great. Okay. So look up self destruction by I prevail. I know I prevail. That is my, when I am hating everything and I want to implode, that is my brain. And that's the song inside. And I hope you like it. It helps you. I can, I can say that I do have some very over stimulating songs. Like I've got like a play, like a playlist for different emotions that I'm in. And I have like an anger playlist and some of the ones that I have on that they're just like, they're a bit insane. I don't understand how I can listen to them. But I really, really enjoyed it. My wife, my wife gets that way too. She's like, how could you listen to this? And you don't want to watch an Instagram video I sent you. I don't know what the Instagram video is going to sound like, but I know this song. Totally. But share songs with me. You know, I'd love if you want to shoot me in on IG, you know, any music that you like to share. It's a large way how I'm able to communicate my thoughts and feelings and to let people I know I care about them. It's one of the ways that I, I do that as well. So yeah, we've got a lot of similarities, but I suppose without, without trying to trail on too much, let's, let's try and go to try and wrap things up, I think. No, no, no, I'm sorry. It's so good. I'll stop speaking. No, I'm having to stop myself as well, because I'm in the, I'm in the zone in terms of speaking. No, I've got, yeah. I mean, my playlists are available, like, publicly, if you, if any, my kind of music, it's not very tasteful for most people because it's dark trap music and very aggressive music, but I do have a lot of, I have a playlist, which is a compilation of calming songs, but also the calming songs that don't have any unfavorable like sensory input. So, yeah, so it's called autistic chills that I have. And I'll try and share that below if I remember. But if not, go check out the 40 or D song of the day playlist to hear the new songs that I've added. Definitely go check that out. And it's also on my normal kind of personal profile, so you can check out my other playlists. But yeah, anyway, being absolutely great to talk to you, Brandon, and it's been great to have you all for this episode. Hope you managed to get through it. And I will see you next week on another episode of the 40 or D podcast. See you later, guys.


Yes, lots of joy in giving and expressing love. Absolutely.       It's just hooked. It's just hooked.  And then just that little bit of fucking, here's a video. Here's the question. Where are you going? It's just like softening that. Where am I going? What is this? What is it? I don't actually lack anything.  Oh, damn. I just want to play. I just want to have fun. I just want to be joyous and be innocent and build holistically for the future of all children to be abundant and free.


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