ies I suppose like we mentioned before you've got some uh, you've got Ripley from the first It is The most popular really well-known examples and yeah, and then we you know How many examples is he gonna be able to give and if you only had a cap of let's say five should they be included? I probably recommend them I would that's the problem. That's not a problem.  I don't know because I feel like if I am asked about Obviously No, I mean, okay It's it's it's about not having achieved something to even the level of that since the 1980s Right. I think drinker would argue we have but he's gonna have to give it give him a sec to find the listing of what it would be Well, so there's also this if I were here and on on like a a much more like I guess may Well, like if I was on if I was on somebody else's show and I didn't have A good grasp of what that audience would be familiar with as references I'm not sure what I would pick Because I think part of me would be thinking like what are some examples I can pick that it's more likely than not somebody is familiar with and that they can latch on to you know Versus here's something here's something to think about you might you might agree with me on this and you might not Do you think that perhaps? there's A bit more of like a selection bias when it comes to talking about strong female characters versus strong male characters in the sense that You know Movie in the past year.  It's like an amazing incredible performance very strong Female character, but she's not like a she's she's not a good person, right?  Do you feel like there's a weird selection bias? I think I understand what you're getting at. Um, I think part of the problem is when you asked role model It's like, okay. Well, that's a that's a different conversation through like my favorite I think that's why he's struggling even more because makes it more difficult, doesn't it? The uh, Ripley is pretty easy to argue is a role model not past aliens though It gets complicated after that like I don't know if you want to Model yourself after everything. She doesn't especially because we get into identity problems too, but um, Sarah like obviously what you'll be picking is the Stullwart sort of nature of defending your own and to stand up against tyranny and oppression or something like that you can argue role model elements, but I don't blame him at all for resorting to them first They're obviously going to come to his mind and the big issue here is is it or is it not indicative of his lack Of understanding slash experience slash selection of female characters and is it indicative of society problem wider where we don't Properly library in our own heads like female characters.  He already mentioned arcane.  I feel like it's so easy To connect it when uh, we have easy explanations alternatively that don't relate to like I find it so hard to be convinced when there's just countless female characters that I think are great And I know that he does too But I would still label Ripley and Sarah. Yeah, like I like I'm You know trying to be introspective I might just be hung up on the definition of you're far from the only person that role model and it makes This criticism might just be something in my brain where Difficult to make that connection. Well, you know the fact that the rags are a part of the conversation It's a part of the bias, right? The fact that rags at a win and then you were like, oh Lord rings Yeah, it's like we don't have that problem with Ripley and Sarah. That wasn't dismissive. No, no not dismissive. I was just remembering Okay, sorry Right. So the fact if I I mean Yeah Yeah, I know that name because my roommate's a nerd on lord Yeah, no, no, no, that's my point if there's so many we could name that we'll have to do clarifications afterward And that there are ones you could name that Russell will be like, yeah, yeah true and has no fucking clue What we'll drink is talking about It there's so many reasons to choose Ripley and Sarah and the only alternative to convince me otherwise that like it relates to a Lack of familiarity or understanding of female characters or even a lack of them in film to me I just don't buy it according to the statistics so to speak At this point we agree I mean I did agree before that Ripley and Sarah are Great examples of strong female characters and at this point we both agree We would like to see more of them Let's listen to the rest of how Mr. Drinker Answers this conversation, which this question, which is What characters Should my young daughters be watching Two alien films you've got marion from from radius of the lost off. Okay, we got one more We got one more the first two were the first two that I said though. Oh my god We got we got one more arc you for the matrix. You've got okay We got matrix from long kiss good night like all these these are very interesting characters You know they go flaws they go weaknesses they go problems along the way, but like they they overcome those things. Um, so yeah, like I don't Man, I don't know if I eat like okay Like I do want to clarify He did give five examples and then he started moving on to make points. Like is that not fair but but Yeah, that's fair. I I my my hang up is what he says after what I'm done saying here So Sarah Connor and Ripley Are very much like the go-to for this question Right, like there's sci-fi horror women Characters that are main characters because it's a horror movie mostly, right? I don't know if I agree that like trinity from the matrix is a great female character Like I don't know if I agree that much it was written by women, right? It was written by trans women Um, it's considered to be like a trans allegory or whatever we're gonna call it. Um Um, maybe retrospectively, maybe not. I don't know But I don't even know if I agree that like trinity is like that great like she literally just She's in the story to be like, oh, I love you.  There's reasons she does everything I'm not saying she has no character but for that to be in your top five of It's not top five though. Is it is five the first five he thinks of first first five you think of Yeah, it's it's it's I which is perfectly fine and reasonable Because we don't because we don't control the first five that come to our heads and you know that right No, I know that but if I thought of one that was like that that I would probably keep searching for another one is my problem I'm sure it would have though. I mean like the fact that reasonable If you said to drink it like wow, you don't think, you know Main characters from arcane or everything every world at once with mentioning you'd be like, no, no, of course Yeah, those two.  Okay, like that's most of her purpose. That's most of her I don't know if I even even if I'm to say like, oh, yeah females females wrote this film It's like a great female powered film and a trans allegory I'm not sure if I even agree that trinity. Is it like a great Woman character in any sense like she's really kind of a she's just a side character That's there to prop up the main male character, right? Like a lot of the examples that he's giving that aren't Ripley and sarah connor are literally just like I don't know side characters Is marion ravenwood a side character? Um, I mean, she's not the protagonist, but I don't know if it's just a dichotomy of Side character and protagonist Yeah, indiana jones. Yeah, that movie just was Oh wait, you have controversial opinions about the indiana jones movies, don't you? Hell, yeah, that's okay. We accept all opinions. I have based opinions You want to let people know again what they are Uh, yeah, the only good one is temple of doom the rest are mid Okay It's a different opinion and that is welcomed. Did you see dial of destiny? Yeah, that was pretty bad. Yeah, that was pretty bad. That one isn't mid then that one that one is Okay, the ranking for the series Is five six five four four I have six You gave dial of destiny a full You wait you Is only one point better than the dial of destiny Jesus Christ. Yeah, that's actually That's actually insane. It's okay. That's actually to clarify. You think that shazam too is significantly better than right as the lost It's about this happened for what it's trying to be. Yeah, okay. No, I don't know significantly I gave that a low six. I think a low six. I don't know if I gave that a solid six I think I gave that a six closer to five than a seven Okay But I could be wrong. I don't know like he'd he It's I agree As a response to jennifer lorence saying i'm the first female superhero I agree that that's cringe and yes, we're gonna we're gonna give the examples of sarah khaner We're gonna give the examples of rippley. They're great female heroes. They're great female characters. They exist but if you're if you're answering the question of Not have there been female good characters that have existed, but you're answering the question of Hey, you know, maybe we should see more female characters at some point in time and you're like, oh, there have been plenty of So do you really think that's what he's saying or that that's a position he holds? uh Wait wait for him to say the things after i'm done talking and we'll discuss that That's that's it. I'm waiting for him to say a very particular thing you hey, right? Like that's It depends on what question you're being asked, right? He's also right cinematic history that have given us this stuff Thanks I'm sorry really in recent years and trying to highlight this stuff and trying to correct a problem It didn't really exist in the first place They've made it it didn't exist enough they're trying to correct a problem that That sounds like a weird thing to say right when when people are trying to To include more representation of women in film So do you think when he says problem we both He's talking about That because he's saying a problem that didn't exist in the first place What he means is how to write women to better represent them in in cinema or whatever when he's saying We already had women in cinema that were very well written. There's no problem to correct there How I don't know how that's different than what i'm saying So do you see how like captain marvel they see that and Ray and all these other characters as examples of like ha ha now This is an age of women We're doing way better for them when they are categorically doing way worse for women now compared to any other time For writing characters in movies maybe if you go all the way back to like 40s 50s or something I'm not even going to make a claim about that because i'm not as familiar with the films But my point is of course that we cracked so many great female characters And then they start trying to fix that like give us better ones and they make some of the worst in history So when he says it's a when he says it's a problem That didn't need to be corrected in the first place. What is the problem that he's referring to my read would be that It would be the the idea that women weren't written with depth Because what russell brand is is like that would be an answer if russell brand was trying to say hey, we need the first We need the first well written female character. That would be the answer to that But he's not saying that he's asking about More representation and things to show his daughters that aren't just from the 80s Which you know, they discussed previously and that's why he's kind of Asking again, maybe not the exact same question, but he reiterated the same thing if you believe it to get Examples of things to show his daughters right If you believe that's what drinker thinks the response to that So how could how can I interpret him saying? It's a problem that Didn't need to be corrected in the first place. How can I interpret that as anything other than him saying that the Uh, the goals of people trying to make more representation in film is a problem that shouldn't have been corrected and that he's trying to argue that Just because there were these other examples in the past That that's plenty of representation and that people don't need to be trying to do that Right specifically referencing all of the cringe shit like you brought up with jennifer laurence making her claim In uh in quantum mania. There's like a sequence where michelle pfeiffer breaks out of uh, you know, whatever capture she's in and the Writer and director say no damsels in distress here And like there's this growing attitude with the presentation of like a the girl in secret invasion Who's now the most powerful avenger of all time because she's got all of their dna in her They would argue that these creators we're doing so much for women and we're fixing the problem of women Not being as present not being as free mentioned in depth not being as layered not being as prominent And drink is trying to say there was no problem to fix we were doing fucking great We had loads of amazing female characters not to say that we had the correct amount exactly what i'm saying though Yeah, but not to say that we don't need any more He's he's more than happy to have plenty more great female characters We know that from all the reviews i'm not saying that he's upset by their Necessarily that he's upset by their being more But it seems like he's arguing against the people that think that it's a worthwhile cause to try and make more I would agree with him if he's arguing against the concept that women haven't been served well by character writing Like that we we have to look at our past as some kind of like horrifying mess compared to the current The position we're in which is much worse Well, I'm trying to reconcile with what you're saying He's saying and what he's saying or what at least at the very least what I think he's saying Because if I were him and I believed You know, there's this all these great examples of female characters You know most of the examples being brought up being in the past you have an entire video saying Here's why female characters are improperly written now. How does that translate to you saying? Sorry for to him saying This is a problem that didn't need correcting in the first place because if you look at his his Uh videos on like, you know, how men are improperly treated in or written in films He doesn't say oh, this isn't a problem that needs to be addressed. He says this is something we need to be fixed It just seems kind of inconsistent, right? Like I don't know how else to interpret it If he was presented with the idea that we need to do more deconstructions of male like leading heroes to show That they they can be flawed and depressed and be brought down He might very well say that's a uh, not a problem that needs fixing. We do have deconstructions We do have great stories about uh older retired heroes sort of things doing different things differently And that they've over corrected and created horrible stories as a result. He may very well say that Um, obviously in regards to women I as far as I can tell he's he's having a reflex response to the idea that we need to create better female characters We always had really good female characters. That's the response to that Yeah, which which it seems like a weird response to give when rustle brand is asking what his two daughters could be watching in current day Well, he gave five examples and then he talked about how it's not a problem is just saying like He gave five examples and then he talked about examples of things that are like before they were born Why is that bad things before they were born? Because that's why rustle brand asked the question again is because last time Can you give examples from the last five years? I think that was the implication when he talked about the age of his daughter. Well drink a could but I don't think he's clearly He's rustle brand is very clearly trying to ask about the current landscape of films right and and so it's weird It's weird to give old examples from before that they're they're born and then also say It's a problem that doesn't need to be corrected because of those examples like it's it's not really But then if that is your position And you believe that's the most reasonable interpretation Then you have to have as part of drinker's position that we don't need any more female characters that are well written And you must not think any of them are very good these days, which we know is not true He's already praised arcane. I don't I don't think that that's necessarily part of his How can he how can you maintain that? He thinks that we don't need any more female characters and I can name all the best ones from ages ago because all the New ones are shit, but simultaneously promotes the ones that are good today He I didn't I didn't say that he said that there doesn't need to be any more female characters I said that he's arguing against people that are making those efforts Right because a lot of his criticisms is against people making those efforts whether they're Well placed or not and when he says when when the phrasing is They're trying to solve a problem that doesn't exist in the first place You know a normal I don't know if the word normal is correct here a different person with a with The perspectives that you're saying he has would say the problem does exist Here's how you fix it, but he'd said the problem doesn't exist. No, the problem. I agree with him the problem doesn't exist If the problem has stated is women need more representative characters that are in depth and detailed I would say yeah, sure. We all do And if they said well, yeah, but we don't have any as women I'd be like you have a lot But that that's not what they said and this is exactly what I was saying in the video Is that if the if the if we were responding to Jennifer Lawrence saying there have been none Then yes, this is this is exactly what he would say and it's a perfectly acceptable response But that's that's not what he was asked he was asked About the future about about the current landscape of films and how to reconcile that without like having the whole political Vogue or whatever issues he's having with how they're being represented You know We're it's it's like two different questions and two different answers And we're kind of like interchanging which ones we think are being Asked or answered so I don't know if we're gonna I don't know if we're gonna wind up agreeing on this one, but I hope you understand where I'm coming from at the very least Do you think if Russell brand didn't uh, depending on what he was looking for he wouldn't accept those answers If it wasn't something that he was looking for or approved of can you sorry, can you repeat that question? I get if Russell brand wanted particular examples and drinker gave his examples Wouldn't Russell brand say no, no, no. I mean these kinds of examples instead wouldn't he say no No, because he's he's he's one of the least Confrontational interviewers ever first of all and second it did seem like like the the extent of his confrontation Was him bringing this back because he like I don't I don't know if we're gonna agree that he was asking the exact same question earlier But you know essentially both times he was trying to Get advice on uh media for his young daughters to watch in this current landscape of films and trying to reconcile that with his uh perspectives on wokeness and perspectives on inclusion and all that stuff Right, so that that is him like pushing back in a way because he was unsatisfied with the Uh sarah connor and ripply examples. He I think he was genuinely asking like hey What is something that you would approve of? What is something? you know like That that I could show my young daughters and That's not to say that something doesn't exist. I don't know the age rating on arcane if it would be appropriate for them or whatever But like it is a weird way to answer that question by And I mean it's a problem that doesn't really intimidate because I because I I don't think he would would say that about male characters Right, I don't think like if they were talking about like hey male characters were written well in the 80s and 90s They're written terribly today. I don't think he's going to go. Oh, it's a problem that doesn't need fixing They're trying to solve a problem that you're like he's it seems like he's actively asking for the problem to be fixed when it comes to males If the problem as stated is women need more better written characters He would want to cross it out and say we need all not just women and in fact There's no relevance to say that women need it any more than men need it any more than any other particular persuasion across fucking I want more alien characters that are gray or robots Like I seriously think that that that's the the tangle here is the drinker is not at all implying That like people who want more female characters who are well written need to shut up because we have plenty already He's saying like we need to do great shit for everybody. What do you mean? And we already know how That's a little exaggerative to I was trying to be careful with my phrasing I think that's a little exaggerative what what my position was um That he's essentially arguing against the people making those efforts Not necessarily that you know There shouldn't be any more female characters and they need to shut up. But that's the thing, right? Russell highlights those people with those efforts and drinkers saying they're using shit tools when we've got the tools already We know exactly what to do I wish he said that but that is what he's saying To With other words like he remember he's he started talking about how They don't write characters with flaws. They don't write them defeating adversity and you were saying, okay Yeah, that's that doesn't that doesn't mean you've got a guaranteed good character There are other ways to write them but that that is a broad good way to write characters That's that's what he followed up with that that wasn't that wasn't Hmm. That was all connected. That's what he's talking about with writing good characters. Not just females Okay I just don't um, what question would you ask him if he was here right now to get clarification? Yo, how come I never see you drinking in your videos?  That's because he's already drunk No Yeah, I was genuinely curious about his clarification for Why he seems to imply that because There are no Stars anymore if we're to accept that Why that's a bad thing because it's it it seems to come with that implication and I that was never answered in this Video and I've seen other people say it and I I've never seen like a proper answer for that So that would be one thing I'd ask about um I'm also in relation to this pot In relation to this part, I mean like I'm I don't I don't know what I possibly could ask him because I feel like with my criticisms being made whether or not he uh Had the intentions of saying what you were saying Uh, when he said it like it seems like a pretty easy save, right? So I don't know what I don't know if I would trust what What the answer would be at that point You understand this so there's nothing that could be done at that point then Well, I don't have a window into his soul, right? I'm I can only Know but um, obviously I trust the answers you're giving me about your perspective I don't assume that you're probably saying a lot of stuff to look better Mm-hmm. I mean like It I don't think that it's as How do I phrase this I don't think that When people do those sorts of things I kind of touched on this earlier that it's uh, necessarily all intentional or conscious I think that a lot of people do those sorts of things And then I don't know if unconscious or sub subconscious. I guess is the right term in kind of a subconscious way, you know people are statistics people are You know, we're all subject to these weird biases and these weird behaviors these weird mental phenomenons And I think that it's very possible that a person in his position Could give an answer to something And kind of think that it makes sense at the time But it's not really a strong position or something that he's like actually thought about super strong like his whole answer to uh The sound of freedom like his immediate response is like I don't I question the morals of people that are Saying bad things about this movie that they don't want you to see it because About the subject that that it is I feel I feel like if if this was if he was Asked that question for the first time not on russell brand but in this podcast And I said and there was someone there to challenge him on that whether it would be you or me and being like wait Are you serious like you I'm sure he would be like, oh no. Yeah, actually you're right You know like whether or not that's like, uh, I'm not trying to say like ooh to make people like him better but I think that there's certain things that Normal it's a normal human thing to say something and then be like, okay. Yeah, you're right.  I'm good faith. I'm Open to having my mind changed. I'm open to discussion and I'm introspective, right? So I would I would hope that the rest of the world is too uh, but that doesn't you know, I wasn't necessarily implying like it's some sort of uh Malicious like ooh, I'm gonna hide what my real opinion is right? I'm just saying what he said was dumb and that he might uh come He might also agree It was dumb and it's also a normal human thing To to try and pretend like what you said was not actually what you said and that doesn't mean you're a bad person Uh, but you know, I would say that's just most people that that's a thing that people do So who knows I I could be over psychoanalyzing. I don't know but that that's Part of how I feel I guess Uh being more familiar with his work, of course I would just say he's got a big investment of writing male and female well. He's very into it and uh Obviously hates a lot of the dynamics that get promoted as an improvement upon older eras But you know with all of that context, I can't read this any other way I just think that he's Lamenting at the fact that they think they're right in better characters when they've had the tools to do So this whole time and they don't use them or rather they don't feel inspired by them to create The aspects of those characters that really do endear people toward them as opposed to Having characters like one of the common ones in in captain marvel Who best friend just walks up to her and says you are powerful. You're smart.  That's what he's thinking about Yeah, that's a very noble interpretation and I'm glad you're sticking up for your buddy Um, and I don't you know, I'm just trying my best to be honest about How I feel and the at the same time trying not to Be You know shitty I guess so Like I get it. I get it. I understand your perspective I understand it. I understand it, but like man It's it's not it's not that like women existing and being more represented in media It's not an attack on men. It's not an attack on men And even though some people write it to be as an attack on men and even though some writers It's clear like oh Like this person just had a bad experience with men and they think that like all men are evil because they had Three dates with men and they were all shit or whatever like those people exist and those people write movies But like seeing more women in movies is not like this it's it's not it's To claim that like This is not this is not a thing that anyone should be concerned about if I were women I would see myself represented all the time name five movies in the past 20 years Three of which are side characters like if I were a woman growing up in the 1990s If I was if I was a woman aged one in 1991, I would just watch Aliens Ripley. I would just watch the terminator movie with sarah conard.    I get it You don't see yourself represented anywhere Where Well anywhere implies anywhere Like I guess movies more specifically Well, that's a and like mainstream culture Yeah, like do you do you not see yourself represented in movies or anything like that? No, no. All right. No, not at all actually one movie radio All right, I can't tell you which one Fair enough I think what's being appealed to is just fundamental characteristics that you find endearing because you consider them important to yourself as well beyond gay furry Oh, I agree, but I'm that that's a that's a it's not to say that Oh, if there's a gay furry in a movie then I see myself represented I was just arguing, you know On the same terms as people talking about how white people, you know, see themselves represented or black people see themselves represented I agree that, you know, there are different variations and different arbitrary Labels we can give ourselves to categorize how we feel represented Um, and I wasn't to say, you know, I'm not I'm not saying like oh, yeah, then therefore I would feel myself represented If I see a gay furry, I'm just saying, you know By by those standards that a lot of other people seem to apply I don't see that Okay, right But to claim that like oh the people that want to see themselves Represented in that way like oh, yeah, they already had it with Ripley with Ripley and Sarah Connor And that's it and those are the only examples that you're ever going to name and then some side characters like like that's just a Hosh in terms of representing his point of view That's pretty it's exaggerative. Yes It's hyperbolic You got to understand at least where they're coming from even if you think that that's something that they shouldn't like be concerned about You should at least say that on their terms, right? You should at least say that on their terms But you're acting as if like they don't even have an argument which is like crazy It works that's the problem. What about the analytic tool? I only know because I saw it in rick and moe where they say like an analysis of a feminist a movie from a feminist perspective Are there two female characters that have names that are talking about something other than a man beck del test?   Before he was even even like popular in movies in 2008 or whatever, right? Why do you think it was a four chan thing? That's so funny. It was created by a woman, but It was meant to put fun at like the feminist critique of of movies and stuff So it was never meant to be taken seriously But it's become like the benchmark. I just I just think it's funny that he thinks that or that he thinks that it's a possibility As it like as a person that used to work in filmmaking I find it amusing at how credible it is that he thinks that I don't uh, I don't even know when I first heard of it, but uh, I wouldn't have any gas in exactly its origin, you know I've probably heard about it and like maybe within The last five years is when I heard about it And I think it was because you know feminism was a big there thing back in, you know, 2013 2016 kind of years And that's I think when I first heard it so Makes sense to me someone might think it's something very recent like an international I could buy it. Um, Yeah, I could buy that. I know it's not though And so, you know, it's it's more like Yeah He would mention a lot of animated characters if he had his full list But you just went with ones that came to his head first, which doesn't surprise you right alien terminator and indiana jones like Some of his favorite movies of all time mm-hmm How do you square that up? I suppose part of the reason is like it depends what genre of movie you want to look at and And uh, how mainstream you want to go because the biggest movies at the box office tend to be Action movies they tend to be spicier movies all those kind of things, but they're generally very male-oriented movies And so the natural result is you tend to get a man in the league because that's what that's what guys look for But I agree for other stuff. It's just you just have to go into different genres. It could be dramas It could be it could be romance. It could be historical epics whatever you want to be Um, there's plenty of movies with characters like that in it. They're just not the big blockbusters Get it.  Like why why honestly? Why are there mostly men in politics? Why women are the majority population?   I don't know. I need to organize I'm trying to reconcile. I just I don't usually like this much women hate on the podcast, but we'll allow it for the guest It's okay. Yep. Don't worry. This is a safe harbor.  I could be myself Because they all hate each other. Yay of it all, you know, like I'm trying to reconcile with the population But to some degree you have to like You know blame what is popular on what is being consumed, right? So if if there's You know a certain amount of things being represented in media You have to blame who is consuming the media in the same way In the same way and I'm gonna make an argument against the critical drinker here in the same way that We saw mostly male white dominated films in the 80s in the same way that we are now seeing A bit more representation.  The landscape is changing and that's not necessarily a bad thing and so you look at films like You know, I I think that you know, you see mauler like in the background here Mauler has had the critical And I think they relate to each other a lot in certain ways. I think that people um Treat mauler as kind of like this weird like kind of boogeyman where like Sure, maybe he agrees with the critical drinker on some things Maybe he agrees with me answering things like I don't think that he's necessarily like this caricature of like everything that's wrong with like Film criticism or I appreciate it. I guess, um, I think you say not necessarily It's like maybe there's a small chance I phrase myself very carefully on everything I say. I I very if you hear me making like a Absolutist statement that is that is very not Not representative of things I usually say I I make I make sure to add nuance to a lot of things that I say That's a normal thing objectivism or like Please don't connect objectivism to me. That's not we're not I'm not the one who started that. I'm just I'm saying that it's not Good Objectivism is just because that's the iron rand thing Yeah, just so we're clear I think that a lot of people like treat him as like this weird kind of boogeyman, right? um You look at his perspectives on films like he loved everything everywhere all at once like there are films that break out that like Connect with everybody regardless of like who the race or gender of the main character is because it's like A great film that connects with people and I can understand, you know, like being in that perspective or Being the critical drinker, you know, like you're used to this type of thing that has been presented to you your entire life And you're looking for a reason to justify and understand why you don't like this new type of thing And the reason isn't just oh, you're racist or you're oh, you're sexist It could just be it's new right like that's most old people That's most people that just grow old You know, but also because I'm young and then you're old and you don't like things that are new And that's like the definition of conservative and I was right this is a Very valid line of understanding for why people may come to their conclusions, but Don't know that I just don't think it applies to drinker. He's gonna tell you like he He pursues a lot of uh All kinds of things not he wouldn't he wouldn't like hesitate being like oh asian led. I don't know. Maybe I'll watch it I guess you well, but Do you do you think that there's any shred of a possibility that like part Of him can feel that way like do you feel like it's like an unconscious bias representative of any Any well sure. Yeah, I'm I'm I'm rarely talking about conscious biases I think that most of those biases are a part of the problem with that one is the I'm just gonna go full all or nothing Like I guess maybe it applies to all of us in some way or the We should just stick to whatever, you know, we see people do I think that it does apply to all of us in some way Um And I think that it's important to try and be introspective and try to fight that part of yourself if you do notice it Uh influencing you in that way But yeah, I feel I feel like it does exist for a lot of people and I'm just trying to Be more conscious of and spread the message of My perspective that we shouldn't be uh just scared of things because they're new and also like You know a lot of people that exist Uh That watched everything everywhere all at once or watched parasite like These films were able to exist in this culture because it's getting more normalized if it was literally just like There's only been white people in movies. It like 100 with no exceptions And then that movie shows up like that would be incredibly intimidating for a lot of people, right? It's because different people being represented is taking up a bit more of the pie That these great films are able to exist in this landscape and people are watching them and they're being successful I think trying to think of even when I was super young if I was like of a position where I'd be like non-western film I don't know about this Like I've got some kind of a vision to it. I don't think I've ever felt that way not to say I don't you know, there's gonna be people who do I suppose in the same way Well, yeah, I was going to say in the same people can't do subtitles four by three or black and white Like that's because of subtitles, right? Not because of well, yeah, these biases that relate to like Don't want to watch a foreign film those far at it. I'd be like, oh damn Okay, I don't feel like I come across that very much at all But I guess you're saying it wouldn't be over These are things that are a clicking and moving in the background over time Yeah, we're all we're all a part of a greater Machine, you know if we want to call it that we're all We're all individuals that make up a whole we're all statistics and You know, we live life as individuals, but really we're statistics and so yeah Tism that's the definition of just being somebody who's not progressive is like, hey Things were the way I wanted them to be and I think that that was safe And I don't like things that are changing even though that's progress, right? That's all they don't care.    So it's the same thing with movies. So maybe this is what perhaps This is a question like maybe what offend you. It's like they still want their cake of indiana jones Luke's guy walker I didn't catch that the first time they just want to sell you bud light That's a very funny thing for a wrestle brand to say. Well, he's talking about like how It doesn't matter what they're out. They thought eventually the bottom line is the bottom like they just want to make money I didn't catch exactly what his point was. I don't I'm not sure I thought that's what he was saying. He doesn't the because it's called pink capitalism, right? Would they pretend to care about issues? They're just trying to sell stuff Yeah I agree that it's kind of lame to try and take these like, you know In indiana jones 4 they were trying to like Be like, oh shia labuff is the new guy And then he got canceled and then they were like he actually died in the next movie We have like bill and ted being like the two girls. I guess one of them is non-binary. I didn't know when I made my review I don't know You know, you have the two main characters from that one.  It was quite a drop in quality with that third one Oh, we're continuing the franchise. Did they even have another movie planned?  I get that I get understanding That and I get recognizing that but let's see where he goes with that So Indiana Jones being a great example or Luke Skywalker, for example characters that you've really come to know would love and then they what they'll do is present them as old men who are Sad and lonely. They've given up on life. They are broken down and they're kind of effect now on the Well, what do you want the main actors to do what like do you want Harrison Ford to be like? Oh, I'm such a very young energetic young man like wall is going on What's happening here? He's he's he's commenting on the representation of beloved character Is turning into something that he doesn't like um, my argument is that it's less to do with Like it it's not necessarily to do with like a oh, men can't be represented in this way like he has a video where he's like talking about Um, how they're trying to like destroy your heroes or something, right?   There's there's no it's it's either like come on Okay, so hold on hold on so we're there's the example that was talked about before he answered this question was Indiana Jones five Yeah, that wasn't really the whole movie that was like the intro to the whole movie It was literally like this.   He wanted to die. Yeah He wanted to die by the end of it. Do you want to know? No, when he talks about wanting to die at the end He's referring to his current state of life Like throughout the his era in life is that nobody likes him He has nothing to gain. He wasn't even necessarily wanting to I thought he wanted to stay because he like it's his life's work To have studied that period in time So he was okay with the consequence of dying while he was there but not necessarily if you remember when he returns That he would die He says like why why am I still alive? Who am I alive for like he basically Does he got hit hurt remember? Yeah, he he absolutely wanted to die and he saw that the fact that he was had a bullet wound And he could just watch history unfold is his opportunity to have a death He could actually vaguely enjoy instead of having to be dragged back to life I mean That was the movie. It was horrible Yeah, the the majority the majority of the movie is not like presenting him as like a like a piece of shit or anything like that I I don't I don't even know if I'll agree with how we're framing how he's being presented at the beginning and end But like those are the examples is just like well at the beginning of the film and the and he's a Go ahead Do you remember how when we get to the school slash the university like his students find him boring and they don't care about the subject at all Indiana Jones Yeah, he Commentary about Is that I don't that's a that's a very interesting perspective because I don't consider Personally, I don't consider that to be like a condemnation of him as a character I just consider that as like an attempt at like, I don't know like comedy or like just him showing how People don't relate to him. Like I don't know. I don't know if it's I don't know if I agree that it's like a part of a larger cultural Issue for in the first movie students seem to really like him way one of the students thought he was hot Yeah, he's fucking he's 80 years old Yeah, but this is the negative of like like he could Command an audience. Well, so in the third something that he clearly had a passion about Just to sneak out of the university because so many people want to ask him questions about his life and stuff Yes, but when he's this age Nobody gives shit people aren't even showing up and they don't know they haven't paid attention to the course at all To the point where they don't even know the answers to a basic question Yeah Describes the topic is way different than how he describes it in writers I'll say that like even even if I grant you that like his his uh, the way he's represented in the film is like Insulting to the character I think it's I think it's more of an issue of just like the fact that they're using old people and they're creatively Bankrupt and just being like, okay.  He's old now, right like what how do we incorporate that into the story?   Like, yeah, wasn't he? Retired for a couple of years There was not enough sort of for the central conflict didn't have anything to do with him being old But mainly had to do with the fact that he was bullshitting a liner About like what he wanted from life and lying to us so that he could vicariously Like he could go off with his brother and go on adventures again Like because he was just Who's insular too self-focused too much of a desire to get the treasure even though he said well, I'm trying to help sam And it's like yeah, I mean you like this don't don't lie.  It's not about him being old Do you do you feel like the central conflict of indiana jones five was about him being old? It's about the word so the the point the film wants to make is that he feels like and he's supported throughout the film that The world is done with him. He hasn't got anything else to offer. He can go But by the end we're supposed to believe through the events that he's got a hell of a lot more to offer and culturally speaking He's incredibly important. I think they failed miserably at making that argument Yeah, I don't know. I just like That wasn't my main takeaway from the film Okay, but it's like a boring action Currently from rumba. Did you just say as well that um, what are they going to do considering how old he is? But also that he is he's okay throughout most of the movies still doing stuff.  I just I don't those two positions It's the worst of both worlds, isn't it you're simultaneously not recognizing his age while also using his age as a justification for This temperament when there are other possibilities and other options at your disposal What i'm saying is that the small amounts of that that they included in the film is because they're they're Lazy writers doing the obvious thing of like, well, he's old. I guess we'll make it about him being old But it even even with that considered it doesn't make up like most of the film, right? It's it's not I I didn't walk away from that film feeling like that's what it was about or that's like The message that I was to get from it.  What's what life is worth living anymore?   Here's a question Is this is this something that has happened in movies other than the new indiana jones and the last jedi? Yes, or are those like like Blade runner We could I'm not familiar enough with blade runner. I'd have to rewatch the new blade runner to get better arguments today I only watched the one time I didn't like it but um They they're kind of It well, I mean there's loads of different examples all over the place, right? Obviously the new james bondy wanted to kill himself essentially by the end. He did kill himself by the end technically Obviously he was still saving people, but it's like, okay, uh nick fury would be another Can we hold this thought? I'm just gonna piss again, but okay. I am interested in this conversation So don't don't keep playing without me. I'll be I'll be back.   I know that bit. Hello. Are you aware of that scene? Um, yeah Like yeah Because I guess I guess what I'm this this I guess is this is a common theme um when I when I see Uh, certain aspects or issues or elements of uh film and I guess particular particularly character writing criticized um in a particular way that You know, this might just be because of my own bias and the types of media that I consume. Um, but I see it very like heavily Uh, correlating or at least you know acting in a symbiotic relationship with with this whole sort of like idea of this agency over Um, like we have to make your your male characters Uh, un un relatable. We have to like disparage them in some sort of way like I think it's less of an issue of like Recognizing that that's a thing and more of an issue with I guess trying to Trying to have a conversation about like okay. What is the intent behind that? I don't think it's nefarious and I think that a lot of these conversations wind up as being like they're trying to you know, there's a they and they're trying to uh They're they're trying to make it they're trying to brainwash you into believing these characters were never good in the first place Which I think is actually Very similar to a quote from a critical drinker video that I watched He's saying that they're trying to convince you that those characters were not good in the first place And I think that that's I think that that's kind of like pushing it in terms of like Uh Trying trying to analyze the intent of the writer there. I think that there's other explanations for that that Are probably more reasonable. I think that writers can often be lazy.  I think it's just lazy writing I think it's literally just like oh, what do we do in a way that passes the torch In a lot of these films sometimes not sometimes they try to end it I don't know exactly what the fuck they were going for in india and it shows five But in the last jedi, they were definitely trying to do a passing the torch thing there like oh, okay Like, you know, this is not the character you should be caring about I don't know if that's that's a nefarious way to try and make you hate The character that you grew up with Um, I don't know if that's necessarily the goal and I'm I'm not sure I agree that it's as prevalent as as Uh critical drinker or perhaps you as well are making it out to be so the Desire as far as I can tell if it's non malicious is a sense of like ego driven sort of I'm going to make my Mark on the future of this IP and I'm going to deconstruct like deconstruct is the keyword They want to show you what made this person the way they are in culture and the good and bad of that And are they still that person and what does that person mean for the future that I think is a broad understanding actually matches a shit ton of the examples like, um Recently with secret invasion They spend a significant amount of time telling us that all of nick fury's achievements throughout the mcu were not his He took them from other people and he claimed Responsibility for them complete retcon and it's like that seems just completely fucked up and changes everything about him It's like yeah, can you can you say that sorry you need to say what the character did again? I was just hung up on the fact that there's a marvel show. I haven't heard about that I keep getting introduced to them and realizing that they exist Like secret invasion. Sorry. I had a thought I was they argue the very secret All of it like he's supposed to nick fury is the super spy supposed to be Yeah intro. Yeah, okay. Um I've vaguely heard of it Nick fury's known like primarily character wise being incredibly intelligent shrewd and sort of tactical He's going to be the best. He's like the batman sort of thing of the the mcu.  That's kind of character We've got they managed to maintain that relatively in the mcu even though he doesn't have a lot of appearances He's definitely kept up a sense of uh You're gonna you're like he's going to be impressive whatever he ends up doing in the new show They argue a group of aliens needed a place to stay on earth.  I think that's I honestly think that that's just most of it is just like we we I would like to think that writers wouldn't be so clueless to Uh Not understand how An audience would like to see their favorite characters being treated But fuck it like here's an example. Did you watch uh glass? Like that's m night m night wrote those characters and that is the I could not think of a more unceremonious way to end those characters.  Like and that's coming from the guy that wrote them I think that that we shouldn't be so naive as to think that it can't just be because There's a lot of writers that are just really bad and not necessarily like sure. I think subconsciously maybe Maybe statistically there could be a higher, you know, some amount of it being like politically motivated or You know, maybe maybe uh ideologically motivated, but I I just don't think that that's the answer and I think it I think the uh I think when we're talking about Film even even just mainstream film. I think I think it's a bit more nuanced than that I I'm happy to I would completely agree that incompetence is absolutely a part of all of these no matter what if we find other motivations As well as other influences that incompetence will always be a part of it But like when approaching an indiana jones 5, I imagine they sat around thinking like what should we make this film about And someone settled on the idea of like, okay, so we'll start with like He's gonna be kind of will bring him down.  He said about the 80 years old. I think christopher lee was around 80 when he did count dooku, right? It's like You know, I'm not saying the prequels are basic. I'm just saying that what do they do with him? I'll do one even more recent, right?   They definitely get worse on rewatch I think that's my highest rating jump From a five to a one. Oh, whoa to a one. Whoa, calm down. Like they're they're better than dialer.  That was pretty bad.   You were going with like how they treated chrysophile Uh, despite the fact that that was one of his few remaining acting roles I think before he was unable to act anymore Um, and that's you know significantly worse than Harrison Ford who is still able to run around and Shout and do all kinds of it's just a suggestion that they never had to go down these routes But they often do with a lot of the most beloved characters of all time culturally like Luke Skywalker like Han Solo like Indiana Jones Why why why how many examples are there though like because I well, how many would you need to concede That it's a pattern Whether or not it's a recognizable pattern in the sense that you can point out For however many examples in the past. When did last jedi come out 2017? Yeah something right? We're talking about the past like six years Um, we're going to see more of those examples in this generation simply because we are in the generation of nostalgia bullshit where we're like Oh previous generations of movies didn't bring back old characters, right? They didn't like there was this wasn't really as much of a thing in previous generations of movies. So But considering how often they fumble it like to where it's so a Bizarre consistency with how can you know how badly they do but don't we have comparisons to make though? I don't know if I would say it's a consistency But the previous generation of bringing indiana jones back didn't do this to him like kingdom of the crystal skull He wasn't that old He was older than did try to set it up so that shia labouf would take over it. Yeah, but they also ended it with him saying no They took the hat off him Well remember at the end of kingdom of the crystal skull he married to Marion he You know was happy they kind of left him on a high note. Yeah, and it was the anyway Regardless of whether or not there's some examples of he was 66 by the way filming that Old people being brought back in the 90s Early 2000s or whatever right like there's exit that I'm not saying it never happened But we are in the generation of it happening consistently Of there being old IPs that are revived revamped soft reboots whatever Bring back the old characters the fact that this is constantly happening and and is constantly a thing that is happening Means that it's going to be more likely that we're going to see those characters Disrespected and mishandled. I don't think that it's necessarily like the goal to do that. I think that it's just like a a A byproduct of us having these movies in this generation anyway and the writing just being bad like We brought up bladerunner 2049, which was kind of like a passing the torch sort of thing and harrison ford is like Well, did you watch I've seen it Since it came out and I'm not a fan Not a fan. Yeah, I think I remember having a conversation about this on your thing a while ago but I really I really love that movie and I don't know like I don't know if I could I don't know if I could watch that and attribute it as like we're supposed to Uh, we're supposed to not like this character anymore because they're old and because they're you know I don't know Here's the thing. I just watched The lorex was which was a very bad movie and within the movie within the singular title There's a character who grows old and is like, I can't do anything anymore Like I just think that's such a trope already that just writers who are a bunch of nepo babies in their 20s and 30s Just don't know what old people are like and so they just have to write them in this like, uh, you know like I'm old. Okay, but what about the ones that I think it's I think it's a successful creativity What about the ones that don't choose that direction on the ones that people like so we could go with like Uh, Logan would be one Right that films of deconstruction of wolverine, but people really like it and it doesn't he's old Yeah I'm saying I'm saying people liked it like the obvious Yeah, yeah, but I'm saying that the direction for the character to go and the types of Ideas that they have they at least feel compelled to Bring up as part of the themes of the character. Oh, okay.  They're like, oh the actor's old I thought this was a given. I'm saying that throughout Logan.  I think that we hold different values in terms of Uh, the social standings or how beloved characters are treated because I don't see those things is too different personally because I don't really feel Generally like attached to any of those characters in like a nostalgic way, but like, you know even I'm trying to think a good of a good example of something where I could feel that same way. Um I just Like you could imagine what it would be to not want these to see these characters constantly You mentioned gloss like that that is close to it, right? I assume Well, yeah, it's like entirely unceremonious. But I don't I don't know I can't watch that and think that They're trying to make me feel disrespected by doing that. I watch that and think wow.  Like what what the creators have to say about these sorts of things what ideas to try and represent um This whole era of it, um, there are legacy characters that do return As anomalies that are treated well, um Logan was one I was trying to bring up that people felt like Logan was respected in that film But you know, like uh told me we're going a spider-man They could have brought him in as a depressed disheveled sad peter parker who's lost the will to live But they didn't they made him the mentor Here here's here's what I was trying to say earlier. I feel like even if they did do that with Peter Parker spider-man, which I love I wouldn't feel like personally slighted by that in any way. It would depend on me on execution I didn't feel that way in in a glass either. I just felt like wow, this is bad writing, right? I didn't feel like my I feel like a lot of people Uh very much kind of attached their identities to these characters in in ways and I feel like it can feel like Um, that's an interesting sentence. I feel like it can feel like to a lot of people Um that their experience is being like diminished by having these characters Um Being less respected in in a piece of media whereas like I'm so detached from these characters like even characters that I love like I feel I I feel like this might be pointing towards like more of like a generational sort of like parasocial Uh experience with media, right? I feel like it's perfect to be upset when characters that inspired you would like shout on I wouldn't call it I don't think I'd describe it as parasocial compared to Uh like any mentor in life. I I get what you're saying I don't hold that much of an emotional stake in Uh, even my favorite characters Uh You know being shat on in Later incantations of media or anything like I've always said I've said this a million times people can talk about my favorite movies of all time And say that they're shit. I don't care, right? Like it doesn't really matter like I care about my own experience with it um But yeah, I I I I think that I think we're kind of getting at this here is that I I think there's a lot of people that Relate so closely to these characters and hold them You know such a special place in their heart and I'm not trying to say this in an insulting way But just in a way where I'm trying to understand other perspectives here Uh, I think that there's a lot of people that hold these characters to such an important place in their heart that they feel slighted by How they're represented in in media which which is interesting to me because I I personally just don't feel that way And but now I feel like I'm understanding more about these people anyway Okay, does that make sense? um, sure the the core of this being the you um You were like I'm trying to get back to the video in some way. I think was that was it drinker brought this up as sure Uh with indiana jones and star was a new set. Is it even happening outside of them? And Do you feel as though that's been answered? Say that one more time. Uh, so drinker mentioned indiana jones and star wars is obviously Included in the new set. Is it even happening outside of them? Do you feel you still want examples or? I I mean I've been given examples. I I don't know to what degree I I would consider it to be like valid A cultural issue. Okay, is I I guess what I'm trying to say Obviously the it can be a trend that you're noticing Like I see sometimes I'll see trends that I notice in movies where it's like only four movies have done it But I watch enough movies where I'm like aware of like the inspirations of enough movies where I'm like, okay I see what's starting to happen here or like trailer isms, you know Yeah, yeah, we're like when the inception bomb happened like right after district nine I was like this is becoming a thing that was the second time it happened and then it became a huge thing Right, like I get that you can notice friends, but like if there were five writers it's again Just real quick if there were five writers The one of them did it maliciously one of them did it because he just was skipping through a bunch of character arcs And he landed on old equals wants to die Third one did it because they love the character and they feel like it's perfectly representative where they'd go next That's kind of like ryan johnson with Luke Skywalker. He felt that that was the thing to do and the fourth guy is like Oh, well, I love it when characters do this I just in general So I just want to make this character do it and then the fifth guy literally didn't even write it It was AI who was just that but if all five happened at the same time, it's almost impossible not to see it as a pattern I would imagine that's there even if we don't fully understand the motivations for everybody Sure, sure Pattern pattern recognition is subjective and I will give that yes, you can see that as a pattern I will say that that is that is a noticeable pattern that one that one can notice my issue I guess is I guess Perhaps I am incorrectly attributing this but I my issue is with it being framed as kind of like a a cultural problem Which is kind of what seems to be The the takeaway in this interview, right? Um, for me and I imagine possibly for freeing in rags Not 100% sure we tend to draw all of it back to incompetence Because you can almost do anything that people might hate on paper. Well And so deconstructing all of these characters even if that was their goal Which I'm not necessarily saying it is at the core of it all it can always be attributed to their ineptitude And watching them struggle to try and make whatever point they wanted to make Like um, people are like outraged that nick fury has an arc in that season About overcoming his like bigotry towards aliens as a black man in the show Which is pissing everybody off and it's just like yeah the director was probably like well I'm trying to make a point about how racism is bad and it's like yeah And you've you've you've made it in one of the most like awkward and dumb ass every ways ever You know the incompetence can often explain almost everything But it doesn't change the fact that I wish there was more like I think competence does breed respect for like a character You're dealing with Do you feel like there's any relation between like taking an issue with how beloved characters are treated in later versions of the franchise versus Like talking about how let's say like men are treated in film or like how male characters are written Like do you feel like that's kind of like in the same vein? Um, I don't think so um, because you could theoretically have Yeah, I mean, yeah, I don't I don't see why they would be No, I don't think there's any real connection between the two Other than maybe the people who notice one also notice the other Yeah, I I feel like I'm just trying to be um I'm trying to be fair in the sense that like, um I'm not really the type of person to like care too much about like You know seeing how I'm represented in a film or like seeing how a particular race or gender like when I'm arguing about like women in film Like I'm more or less just saying like Here's what here's what people who are trying to make that change are at least saying right? Here's their argument and you know, like at least engage with it, right? I don't really I don't really care either way in terms of you know, uh, the particular demographics, I don't think but um I don't know. I feel I feel like a lot of the conversation surrounding like culture and injecting that into film Is just so not what I care about in terms of Why I love film, right? I love I love film for the craftsmanship. I sorry the craftsmanship. I love film for the You know the directing the meticulous elements the details the Because I feel like we're similar we're on we're on adjacent roads because when uh, these sorts of things happen it's like the rewrites or the A lot of the time like take black widow. For example, she was very specifically characterized start middle end and the mcu And instead her primary characteristic is that she wanted a family She got taken away from hers the newest version of her They invent a history where she had a family that she completely ditched and then Forgot she kind of had and then reconnected during the events of another mcu film It was like, how did you what is the newest version of her black widow the film? It was uh, is it the oh god I didn't even know that got really It's not good.  What are you what are you expecting use that as an excuse to say hey They were never that given the first place and then what they'll do is over what? What when was this published this was you this was this was after the new indiana jones, right? Yeah, I didn't get that take away, but we've already discussed.  Like I don't think that the new indiana jones movie or like the new a lot of these movies We're saying these characters were never that good in the first place Like you're reaching super hard when like I said that Even if we say that they're disrespected there like the the takeaway of them, you know The implied takeaway of they weren't that good in the first place. That's a very I feel like that's a stretch even if you remember the to agree that the nick fury example I just gave you wouldn't that that would encompass that right? They literally rewrote his history to be shitter than it used to be I I guess so I know you're not as familiar with a lot of stuff. I don't don't watch and don't care But like this is what drinkers referencing. This is what's on his mind. I know I know and this is where the disconnect comes from Music Oh replacement who is stronger than then smarter than them more capable than that doesn't have any other weaknesses And it's like they're trying to okay. He's coming at this from a very star wars based perspective, which nope I'm sorry people who really care about film and people who really care about diversity of film not diversity of races or genders But diversity of like film like the actual You know film diet that you could consume Most people aren't thinking about star wars, but it's clear that you're just thinking about star wars, right? Like what you're describing as star wars. It's one movie. It's one So he's he's talking about a couple of games a few series Obviously all of them are mainstream, but the nonetheless valid especially in the context of mainstream Movie say hey see this guy. Do you really like you're also what happened in star wars multiple times? Talking about luke skywalker. Yeah, do you see what they did to obi one? I watched them, but they they just like they did the Han Solo And then the Han Solo movie No, Han Solo and the force awakens Oh I think you like do you like force awakens like harbour you still you when it came out I was like impressed by the The practical effects. Yeah, I wasn't as jaded by the paint by numbers recreation of episode four That would soon become the standard of of what soft reboots would become So my rating has changed since I've seen it But I I had a positive review when it came out because I was like, oh, this is fine.   We've got a new and improved version here. So you have to like them even more knife. Of course you do because that's how you You're talking about luke scott. What other movie could you possibly be talking about where it's like? Oh, yeah, we've created a new female character and not only have we replaced so about this like are you familiar with the mcu's um It's very odd like in phase four and five we've had a Like what I don't even know what the actual number would be but to not exaggerate It's like a 300 increase in female characters Which isn't a problem in of itself when they're all written like shit And a lot of them All written like shit a lot of them will introduce themselves in Comparison with the established male version of whatever character it is So, you know with Thor we had girl Thor with ant man You have his daughter in in quantum mania even though we already had wasps I don't know whatever black widow even black widow Her sister is introduced as the replacement black widow and she is a lot better than black widow. She didn't make black widow's mistakes Loki silvi is the girl counterpart to him and she Like it's better than him in every single way. It's embarrassing and weird. Um Obviously, I assume you've heard about hulk and she hulk some of the most famous clips from They're explaining her trauma is more something that she's dealt with than he has I'm definitely aware of it and actively avoided it. Yes. Yeah Um and then like dr. Strange. He's you got America is sort of taken over as the she's the one that Takes the final action. She was annoying. Um, and it's unfortunate because her name America or what? Yeah, chavez. Um, and they don't give her America chavez.  Yes, I think you could ironically make a pretty yeah, you could Yeah, it's really it's really kind of shit because the mcu had good female characters and it Invented shit new ones or it ruined the good ones that we had To the point where i'm struggling to think what good female characters we have left When you just knock female out of that what good characters that we have left what good characters period but But you know to I guess to be topical I'm trying to think of you know, who were the non-shit female characters we've got. Um, I know cosmo Oh cosmo. Yeah, that's true cosmo is great. I like cosmo. There you go So, uh Are we are we in agreeance that the sony marvel is doing better than marvel marvel right now? You mean venom venom too mobius and I don't know quite a verse Oh, okay. That's yes. Yes. I'm gonna say yes I'm gonna because you got you got that and then you got technically no way home belongs more so to Sony than it does marvel, right? So and that was like a Far more redeemable entry in phase four and five But yeah, yeah, I guess I would concede that yeah Isn't that funny? It is kind of yeah, but I mean it is That we would get there. Well, who's is it more or less funny than dreamworks taking over pixar in terms of oh, it's just about to say that I mean, I was hating pixar before it was cool Where did you start hitting pixar which movie? Toy story three Oh interesting choice a little earlier than most Yeah Well, it's them with a female, but we're gonna say that the old male version is bad What other movie could you possibly can we can I literally can I get some suggestions in the chat? I don't want to just be like talking out my ass From my limited perspective of like me watching art house movies, you know and like me watching some marvel movies and some Star Wars movies like he's talking about this as if this is like mainstream This is what every movie is doing and he's literally just talking about star wars Right is this not what's happening like he's literally only talking about star wars here and he's not saying it Attacking and deconstructing the archetypes that they resent but rely on is that good bit of made-up analysis? What yeah, what they want to do is please somebody prove it wrong new characters But it's like trying to take a character that uh, you know, you've bonded with over a period of years If not decades that you grew up with and stuff like indiana jones being a great example Or skywalker for example, um characters that you've really come to know and love He says for example present them as old but he's only talking about that right then who are well He's not talking about star wars talking about indian and jones Money's as we've said these loads drinker would give you a list if you really wanted them Like did you watch um gen not genesis dark fate? No, no So do you know like dark fate opens with Um, another arnie getting sent back and he just shotguns jon connor to death I just and then every every time you guys talk I'm sorry to interrupt every time you guys talk about a movie that you've seen that I haven't seen that you're like ruined your life I just feel bad It's not No, no this this is I want to make you sound awful Like I feel like I'm making the right decisions by just not considering them things that I have to watch the more Like I'm just doing a good job. You know like the reason came to my head is because of what I feel are gonna be good It's because of what drinker just said I feel like if I if I just say this to you it'll make you laugh, right? So Yeah, I couldn't imagine new terminator. I would want to watch that movie new terminator big budget Oh my god, james Cameron approves of it. Here we go. So exciting opens up jon connor is immediately killed and then in the future Sarah connor has to defend a new girl who is apparently going to be the the one to hold You know to carry the the new savior of humanity because yes, skynet was defeated Unfortunately in the ruins of skynet legion rises up Which is another self-aware ai that's going to take over the world with robots and nukes And then at the end of the film They're like actually you're not gonna have a kid or a son or a girl or whatever That's gonna lead the world You're going to lead it because that's that you know and they make this like big thing about how Sarah connor kind of hates that she wasn't valued as an individual but instead the carrier of jon connor, which is It's just like did you surgically do this?   You you told the same story much worse, but with a girl instead of a guy. What's what's the idea? What are you doing? I think that I think that a lot of the motivations when it comes to Uh these terrible writing decisions are based on them thinking that they're going to have a successful film that they can Uh make into a franchise right like the mummy was supposed to be the start of the dark universe Perhaps if the you know new bill and ted were even more massively successful than we would have Those two other characters continuing to make films right now or whatever Uh, I think that I think that a lot of the bad writing comes from them preemptively trying to set things up and being like Well, yeah, why would we care about the old characters because we're trying to start this new shit and the writers are just so stupid and ignorant About why anybody would want to see these old characters presented positively, right? So Yeah, again, I I I I think I think I'll concede on it being a thing that happens but The intention is what I take issue. Okay I'm smarter than them more capable than them doesn't have any other weaknesses And it's like they're trying to say hey see this guy that you really liked well We've got a new and improved version here. So you have to like them even more now. You say luke skywalker as an example What's what's any other example? Of course you do because that's how human emotions work. No, it's not people don't think that way And so the more you try and slot these like fake pod people replacements in Like supplement these classic characters that we loved uh, the more people reject it And that's why indiana jones is fucking tanking at the box office Did indiana jones do that like it kept the same main character It didn't replace it with a female character and say indiana jones is bad I don't know if you're aware, but kathleen kennedy talked about how uh, helen assure could very well take over For the franchise at this point as a replacement indiana jones in her own franchise But obviously that's not gonna happen now because the film tanked Yeah, it was weird because like Even I don't even know if I would argue that the film itself implied that right? Like the only reason we're saying that is because kathleen kennedy's saying that right? Um, no that's to confirm that was a goal that was that there was a passing of the torch element to it, right? She's she's friends with basically everybody she pulls Yeah, if they were going to make another movie if they were gonna make another movie like if if diala destiny did well Then yeah, I don't think we'd see harrison ford in it. It would be all in a shot taking over Which is probably Like how well did crystal skull do right? Was that made a lot of money? It was very financially successful Yeah, made like 800 million dollars Damn Yeah, this one made like that and it cost this one this one I think Yeah, I think in order to And in order to break even I think it had to make just shy of 600 million so yeah And even then that ain't great The uh, yeah, I think it's safe I think it's safe to say that uh, we will probably not see another indiana jones movie If ever in Okay, okay somebody Clip it reg yeah, I will yeah, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, you don't even know your clip Reg said we will probably not see Oh, we will probably will probably not see absolutely got him exposed to not see He did it. It came out.  We're like they're replacing it with women characters and saying that the male characters are bad This is why indiana jones is tanking at the box office indiana jones didn't do that This movie costs 300 billion dollars to make this is a plethora reasons why that movie tanked So much stuff to talk about in terms of like time of release the choice of story to tell the way it was marketed She-hawk that's a very funny example. I didn't watch that show Like this line from sinfield reminds me of you there's an episode of sinfield where he's dentist converts the judeiism That's that's a that's very much a spin-off made for a uh streaming service Sinfield I'm not gonna argue that that's a good show. I've never seen it.  You'd hate it I uh, I saw the trailer And I was like Nope. Yeah, so they eat a lot of 14. I guess I'm sexist now. Oh, yeah And uh, he's and so I felt rabbi says to sign up and does this offend you as a Jew? And he says no it offends me as a comedian. Well, that's what's offensive about it So he's always like that you're offended as a cineast and as a cinephile Cineast I love that word. That's on my poster over here. Wait, what is what is that a word?  I don't know if it's like so there I have a poster that says the ultimate bucket list for the cineast And it's like I don't know if it's like a german word like I don't know what's going on I've never heard that word before. I know i'm scratching them off as a It's a scratch-off poster. You know, it's really funny. It's such it's so scuffed.  So I'm trying to scratch them off as time goes by but We're gonna cross off some movies Movies that you adore and love are being dismantled and deconstructed in ways that's clumsy and not even awfully done But there could be a version or something important to say about like that kind of hate for their own audience Because I think this has broader social connotations I think the move critical drinker if you're watching this Can you please do like an entire live stream like reacting to what he doesn't need to We did it. It's fine Yeah, he's uh, where is he right now out of a matzuri? I think Sorry, I think he's he's currently in anime matzuri. I don't know that's the Convention of some kind. I know Oh, yeah Okay, here's my question. Did it so I saw his uh youtube post And he had his drink like this Did it look to anyone else like he was like like moving his bicep up with his other finger or was that just in my mind? I have no clue No clue. Yeah, I also when you said like this, I can't see you either, but oh, yeah I'm showing face cam to everybody about you. I'm sorry. It's okay I just realized that I don't want you to miss like some of the things that I'm asking you about like I want you like I'm really hoping like That some of these things will be addressed You know in some sort of substantive way like I'm not trying to start drama I'm not saying like oh you have to respond to me.   I really don't I do you don't have to respond to me But if you are going to respond to me like can you do like a full?  Do you believe that anakasperian should debate vosh?  I don't know like you don't have to As we've seen like you know don't no don't send it to critical Don't harass anybody about this.  No, I am not one of those people No Of brexit is the sense that people feel like the professional and media class hate them and don't do not represent them Whether that's politically or through the cultural content they provide This is something I talked about sort of like for a while with uh the film make adam curse who I very much admire Something I've learned more and more about the time Or is that another Oh, man, I just don't think we have the hours for you know because you I was just I If you have like a one sentence review of brexit how it went. I just I don't know like what's the first word you think of when you think brexit Do you think awesome or do you think bad? I when it comes to brexit, I hope everyone had a good time Yeah, they should open a theme park We'll brexit. Okay Sting documentary filmmaker Um, it's interesting to hear him referenced by Russell brand, but yeah, I'm not surprised I guess a professional class in journalism Now that don't speak respectfully of this for what the better is working class people working class culture There's a kind of out of business or an antipathy I don't know if the critical drinker knows who adam kurtis is though in loathing towards and they don't like working class people In america blue collar people there's a kind of condescension and a snobbery and it seems like in a sense This is one of the narratives that's playing our film Um, I also want to mention like in south park when they did and that was with the last indiana jones movie You know like where they went like they had i think kyle coming out of a movie for a puke Oh my god, what did they do to indy? You know and like what about the imagination land one where they were like, um, these characters are more real to you Like, you know, we've reached jesus and i know i'm religious it turns out I think he might be an atheist but i believe in god and all sorts of stuff But like they sound like that these characters are more real to you Luke's guy because more I don't know When you say like naming fun fictional characters like cheese Why would you say that? He caught himself and remembered he he caught himself and remembered that uh his audience wants to hear that he's not Yeah They've been vessels for your own personal development and your own understanding of your own imagination Darkness and your aspirations and to say Imagination Is our recommendation to watch imagination land episodes one two and three, isn't it? I was referencing the show wonder shows I'm referencing the imagination song the superior media to whatever you were talking about Have you seen okay, hold on. Have you seen what wait? Wait. What's up? Have you seen wonder shows? No, I don't think so Fucking watch wonder shows and I am recommending that to you all specifically it's Is that before after the hundreds of beavers Well, you're not going to be able to watch hundreds of beavers until like maybe winter so before It is winter. What are you talking about? Have you seen have you seen another?   Like you're maybe you're just not very good at this stuff. I'm gonna get offended by it though But if you want to cannibalize these existing characters that were made by I feel like that's a different point talking about How it wouldn't be as bad if not for the fact that it's attached to ip's that we all have a serious stake in culturally Or a lot of us do Someone way more intelligent way more creative than you I don't agree that just like people in the 80s were like way more intelligent I don't think that's what he was saying Like better writers Well, he's saying that morons have inherited the work of great people But how did those great people get those jobs in the first place? Well, they created great works, right? That's how that would have gone Like they got their positions because of that But then the next people got their positions because they may be you know Know the right people the right time like you said nepo babies, right?  Yeah, it seems like he's got a bit more of a problem with the political angle being launched by The bad writing more than the bad writing itself raping someone else's creativity. That's what you're do you say raping? I think he would take great issue with really shit writing whether or not he could See any kind of political motivation um But the thing is whenever you assassinate any one of these characters You're probably going to be giving them like you're bringing them down every time and so it always seems like it slots in I I have a question before I forget um So the critical drinker is someone that has almost two million subs um and We can both agree That there is a type of caricature that is presented of him That may exist, but is not necessarily him um Do you feel like that caricature exists creating online media? Uh, I'm not I guess expecting you to call anybody out, but can you think of like specific examples? You don't need to list them, but like um In terms of if let's say Uh, the criticisms that are being levied against the critical drinker are unfair Would you say that those criticisms are fair towards different people in the online media space that exist and create content and have I think a decent audience the people who are like poisoned completely by politics and can't see straight with movies are everywhere Yeah, they are definitely on both sides all over the place I think each side should work to clean up its own um its own sides crazy people Because it's just it just it just really shits all over what could potentially be It's hard to have real conversations about movies sometimes Because you have to like wade through a sea of culture or stuff and I would just like to talk about the movies themselves Yeah, and it lets bad writing often skirt by or bigger issues just like get overwhelmed by What is ultimately sometimes completely irrelevant, you know discussions on culture and politics Well, yeah, one of the most controversial effort one of the most controversial elements of secret Invasion was its ai intro. We spent what like five minutes talking about that And I was like, well, that's that moving on when it's like the whole world is stopped turning to talk about how it's ai generated And stuff and it's like it's not to say that there isn't things we're talking about It's just that um, we really want to talk about the characters and the events Um, not just that Amelia Clark has a drax on but to be fair We spent a long time on that too because that's pretty bad and that's that's really funny Yeah, it's a really funny I think someone else's work you're uh, yeah rafing someone else's creative But you're not adding anything productive to it You're creating something worse to try and replace it that as a writer as a storyteller That really offends me because I hate to see other people's work get taken advantage of yeah, nice one Maybe that's some good From our community don't need jeff question for the drinker do you think there will be a time in the future when hollywood Is making great movies again? Or do you think that that time's past and something else like gaming will take its place Gaming Yo gaming The last of us was a real fan Gaming, are you a gamer? He's a gamer Hey, what's the best medium? Of course i'm a gamer Do you hear my comments about women? Jesus Yes, my brother What's the best medium adam? Like for odd Oh like the console? Or whoa, sorry, you're asking about like games versus TV shows versus movies versus books Yeah, comics even Damn, I mean My favorite is movies. I think game gaming has the most potential Wow, that's my answer as well. Yeah, I think so. I agree All right. Well, there you go. That was that End of that conversation Yeah, that movie or TV show All right, because it's a massive massive market But I think also the time of this or mega blockbuster that costs 300 million dollars is coming to an end And I think we're gonna see a lot more of smaller things that they take more risks on and yeah They're gonna start making better stuff otherwise people just damn I wish you would just like promote those smaller projects and like I wish I would say like Oh god like Like recommends Smaller projects to you or like sound of freedom. The whale was an Oscar movie. Like yeah I mean, I'm I'm not I'm not gonna be too shitty about that one like that That was a movie that I recommended, you know, like boiling point everything everywhere the expanse ford v Ferrari all confused with 1917 event hard boiled It's about because yeah, we've Boiling point it. Yeah. Yeah, we were hey, we recommend it so many times is one per hour So I'll recommend it again boiling point everyone. Go check it out. Everyone really boiling everybody. You really should It's a really I should be watching it tomorrow event horizon fight club Blade runner top gun member predator jaws invincible falling down Like, okay, we got your entire. Okay. Here's your playlist that you made normally. Yeah, like oh man Like the boys Cobra Kai Chernobyl event horizon falling down 1917 for v Ferrari predator Unforgiven blade runner jaws. You didn't even like include the whale in this playlist by the way fight club the expanse 20. Whoa. Oh my god the 2010 the year we make contact Oh, there was a big sardonic cast episode about that one. That was fun. I've not seen it. Is it terrible or something?  Okay, if you especially if you like like Yeah, this is like kind of an interesting one because it it almost seems like disrespectful towards the original in the same The way that we were talking about like Other movies that are disrespectful towards the original zina. Mm-hmm principle. Did you watch did you watch the original 2001? Yes, I've seen both.  Uh critical drinker after hours. I think it's where he puts up all the podcast podcast clips And then he has other film reviews on there. I think more often recommendations than not Anything that's not just like shoved into your fucking face by everybody else That if I were watching this and I didn't know your content I would just I mean if if I were watching this and I only knew in russell brand's content And I've never heard of you before I would assume that you're like promoting smaller artists or something, you know like Damn like it's it's a sad state where you have this gigantic platform And you're literally just only sharing things that like everybody already knows about and yeah Well, yeah, and there's gonna be plenty of people who just don't learn about much Movies in general and they day-to-day and they rely on people like drinker to expose them to you know The same way that everything is perhaps um becoming federalized in that way this is from at barry john fox Drink up what your top five films and have you seen all of david lynch's films? I have not seen all david lynch's films enough But he doesn't he doesn't get stuff like that he goes down some disturbing roads with his things Uh, top five films. It's definitely not gonna be done in terms of artistic merit or anything But uh, probably terminator two, um big trouble in little china. Uh, um, I think probably you're not like big trouble in little china No, that's okay Yeah, I'm not sure how the menus made it into his top five. Um, that's fascinating That's that's why my i'm reacting that way in the recording. It's so if you'd ask me what strength is top five I probably would have told you it's aliens predator terminator two Indiana jones raiders and uh, big trouble little china being number one. That's what I've always known about him I never would have thought he put the menu at number three I I have a feeling this is a recency thing that he's he's just trying to give you five movies that are top I doubt he put it by us. Yeah, I'm really surprised he mentioned the menu I can't have so recently Uh, probably a crawler and yeah, I'm not sure what my last one to be welcome to do I'm surprised he said night crawler too. Like I know he thinks it's really good and it is really good But I just don't I wouldn't have thought he'd be in his top five Okay, I'm sorry. So are you when you uh on this after hours channel you you do a show with him every week? Yep, open bar Yeah, talk about bar essentially this weekend movies.  Um, I think probably the menu. I really love that. Um Uh, probably a crawler and I'm not sure what my last one would be. I'll come back to that one in a minute The reason maybe the menu. I haven't seen that. That's really good. Really interesting It's a very good critique if I understand or are you gonna do I can't wait to watch the menu I was eating it I uh, I almost watched it before this recording, but uh I would have thought you'd like it. Uh, honestly, are you sort of you're not expecting to be very good We'll see. Okay I can't wait to see that a video on my alpha remake my author my alpha my alpha I I kind of avoided the menu for a while because it seemed like normie bullshit Which I mean is being kind of reaffirmed by this but I'll watch it. I'll watch it I'm just I wasn't gonna see in theaters when I remade the film Now maybe not about what about games that I want to see a video by you on games to the greek The last thing the last thing I want to see is alpha. Maybe I don't even want to see the uh my alpha But like when you were saying that stuff about reboots, I think in our man Like I love dovey more. I love alpha the original film and I see actually in a way that's I've got inside scoop on how that stuff happens Like you know, I've done a few successful movies in hollywood They recognize that there's a window for me a moment for me Like they've got the rights to offer it's cheap to do it even if the like if let's say the most recent movie I've ever seen I thought was like legitimately in my top five There's no way I would say like, oh, yeah, it's in my top five I would want to see it a second time, right? Like I would want to make sure like I would want to have like that Confidence about like it's it's funny because I've talked to him about the menu. I didn't realize he was so passionate about it But he might not be I don't know Maybe it's just another one of those things that like kind of like I said earlier where he just says an answer and then If we asked him about it later, he would say That it wasn't I think he said before his top five picks would change He's been asked in super chats before right?  I mean to an extent I do That implies a randomness, but well, but my if the bingo balls go to 20 if they're all good movies that he likes I was about to say that's pretty much what my top five often ends up being they'll switch around or the top At least top 10 except the prestige. So that's always number one. Yes. It's it's it's there forever What are what are your top five? What are all your top fives right now? wants to go first The funny thing is is that so usually I'd say for the top five in no particular order would be like saving private ryan hot fuzz uh terminated to and then The problem is that then when I start to think about like the next ones it could be it could be a lot of different movies So like whatever I say right now It'd be the same as drinker there'd probably be a couple that would sort of move in and out of the rotation. Yeah the menu No, that wouldn't be in the rotation. I like that movie, but no, I like it too Man, it's tough. I think fellowship of the ring is my favorite movie of all time. Um I might The more I think about it the more I feel like I want to put the last wish really high up there Probably top five. Oh, that's a good one. Yeah, I really like that movie I'd uh, I had my uh, my sister Uh visited the other day with her boyfriend and we talked about the last wish a bit Well, we were out eating and I was like, wow, I really like this. Um, what would it put as my number three? I don't know Oh Do you want to think about it? I go mine's already set. I don't know the last crusade I'll throw I might throw the last crusade in there. I really like that movie The humor and the pacing and uh, I really really like it All right, because it's a really good movie It is a really good movie rags. It is a really good movie Um, what a great, you know thematics at the end the characters and it has Hitler in it So that's always a plus my number one is prestige number two is probably aliens number three probably hot fuzz and then it comes down to a big selection of changes like um, unforgiven Or T2 all orderings fellowship. I throw that in there as well Um, the hunt the hunt is very high up and I'm pretty sure I saw the hunt. Thanks to you adam I'm almost certain good Which means that we saw it. Thanks to more. Yeah. Yeah, that's a very good film that more people need to see Yes, his critical drinker seen it. I don't know but I am trying to get him to see You show it to the critical drinker then he makes a recommend on his channel then we uh, that is the pipeline I think before anyone is allowed to make a twitter account. You need to see the hunt. Hmm People are often surprised about how what it has to say they they wouldn't expect it to be about that especially considering it was uh It was not it was prior to like 20 It was it was prior to like the advent of the thing that it arguably could be talking about I'm trying to remain very very uh non-spoilery Sure. Okay. Yep, that's fine Yeah, and so, uh, I'm trying to think of anything else. I think the gray batman and robin Oh batman robin easily. I'm in a robin obviously goes without saying whiplash I got the holy mountain. I got synecdoche new york. I got the lion king I got eternal sunshine of the spotless mind good pick and I got kill bill volume one I think I mean I consider both of them the same movie I'm thinking about like I'm gonna rewatch all boy soon. Maybe that's in my top five, but I love kill bill. I love each I like it.  Yeah, really great.  So it's There's a website that you showed me more the way you could Like Charlie would put a movie. Yeah, like it puts a movie versus a movie And then versus another one and then like by working through that it sort of creates the list for you based on Yeah, you can um this want to blow that one you can you can select ones to put in as well So if you want you feel like I really want to get this one and it'll pop it in then it'll just fight it against all the others Okay, I like it. It's fun. It's like a little game. You should send me a link to that I just flick chart.com. I think it's Um, I can look again flick chart Okay Uh, screw you again, but okay feel free to continue playing the video at least in my brain, right? Then they say, you know, there's so many people where like you ask them like what their top movies are They're like, oh this movie from this year.  Yeah That's why I feel like every if I get asked this every week It might change because there's so many great movies that I you know, really adore Well part of it is I can easily say myself putting like the thing up there or you know Why don't like getting asked because I could just have my mind Like there could be a movie that just slips my mind even though it ranks really high Just because of where I'm at at any given time like the father right once, you know The second watch deal that I was like, holy fuck. This is this is a top tier I mean cast of blank is really good. You know like having just watched that recently It's a really good movie Credible. I'm gonna give that a 10 on the second time. I watched it probably I didn't do it the first time I watched it Even the lighthouse I gave a 10 the first time I watched it.  What? All right What barbie movie is okay calm down That's insane to me, but you know I assume it's a meme because they say modern versus But hey, you know what all opinions are welcome here when the damage been done I found out that's the version of alpha you want to do is an 18 or our registered version Like that's almost you can see another take on that But but they because it's economically motivated they want it to be pg it gets off and to the point We can't even show him drink driving, you know, drink driving very british And also someone should have told me don't do that voice those two things Those two things are going to save us all a lot of time and trouble. I'm not going to push you to make videos on films I've done that's that's mental. I can't believe I'm crazy. Vulcan live says crickled drinker I'm more excited about this than Thorsy tucker or rfk and then tn base girl says his eyes look blue to me But ross is it brown? Oh, maybe they are blue. Yeah Oh, you got the eyes of a husky He looks like a skinny sargon of a kind It really does What are you willing to be nice about Uh, it might be getting to the Greek actually it got chocolate me back in the day So yeah, it's been a good long time since I've seen it, but I do remember coin join it Bro, you better watch it again. Come on. Let's jump into the relationship here. What do you think I recommend? Um, okay So what do you think about stuff like um, the re-editing of the roll file books and the sort of conversation around like Life of brian and changing stuff like what do you stand on that mate?  Leave it alone. Don't edit it. Yeah It's just because it's obviously releasing additional visuals aside I'm about to say what about yeah, director's cuts and things. I'm fine with that yet But don't don't try and like once it's out be like no no no no no no.  Like it's funny. There's a lot of edited movies The you know on streaming services will now be available in the way that they are but it's like piracy My good friend will be there forever presumably anyway It's an interesting aspect of media preservation, especially with less physical copies Like these these shows on streaming services. It's pretty rare that they get a uh Like a blu-ray release Someone might get fined by this and all this stuff gets edited after it comes out. Yeah, I know Everyone's been going nuts over the um across the spider ways edits like a lot of stuff is lost to time now apparently, um Yeah, I find that one really strange. I don't know what happened Yeah, I I don't know what to make of that other than Because what was it just a gimmick or was it actually because the film wasn't like done completely in Probably I have no clue. I've seen a lot of theories about why it's ended up that way but across the spider ways, of course Um, if it came with Deleted or alternate scenes. I think people will be okay with it But from what I've heard it's actually like the scenes that they saw in the theater have gone from the releases Wow, okay. Yeah, I don't know what's going on. I don't know why they're doing it Okay As far as I'm concerned. Yeah, these are works of art. They should be left alone as they were intended to be shown Yeah, I agree Both with like in the case of role dial and in the case like that people what role dial has in interviews outside of his fiction Set him like overly and he's making stuff like he's sent some match here But like I mean like within the work he doesn't say that in like Matilda or like Charlie in a chocolate factory But like and again, it's what people like but they want to why do you know what happened? I think I think Netflix did a deal and bought the role dial estate Netflix or like our ship we live in this sort of territory where those things are monetized and mobilized i.e issues around identity Let's push for the role dial estate to reissue those books with edits and stuff I feel like I even like, you know, I would never use the n word.  I completely agree. And so it's like you can't do it Like the good and the bad that comes with it And I think you should just be honest about this stuff and it filters through to movies and things like that Like you can look at movies that were made like gone with the wind or whatever back into the 30s and 40s Yeah, they don't align with our current standards or our current like Cultural zeitgeist, but they're not meant to because they were made in a very different time But we respect the time in which they were made and we can look back on them now and say well Yeah, okay, that's that's changed since then but it deserves to be shown because it's an artifact from when it was made Mate, thank you so much. You're quite right It's pretty plain that all of your work comes from a place of genuine love of cinema and storytelling And as you say the currency of authenticity, thanks so much will for joining us. I don't disagree with I believe that I believe that his takes also I literally agree with the Russell brand here I believe that the critical drinkers takes come from a love of cinema and authenticity But what he perceives to be as cinema and authenticity not my definition of that, right? I believe I don't believe that he's a bad faith actor. I don't believe that he's like a bad faith like oh I'm trying to I'm trying to just make my political beliefs for everybody.  I would say but not as narrow as I Because like I don't I wouldn't take any issue with the argument of like he's not you know Promoting smaller films that or good examples of things that he like Like that's not something that I stand by Um, but I mean, yeah, if we're talking comparatively I don't know what mine is narrow compared to yours.  You know, there's different goals and different tastes and different sensibilities and there's nothing wrong with that We have to understand why it's important to understand why it's important to understand why people agree with this, right?  Yeah I'm so happy that we stopped there was the I think the rest is just patreon credits. Okay Good job patrons We did it. We actually did cover a two and a half hour video Transformed in half hours eight hours and 32 minutes. That's not bad for us. That's actually not bad for us What you uh said you were gonna. So thanks for that. Um closing all right in terms of this whole subject my Big concern is simply that the world we're currently in on the internet is filled with way too much passion for burning bridges And a jump to it sort of thing And whenever I see conflict with any kinds of spheres that I'm even remotely connected to Stepping on each other because of clips they see or takes they see and they assume the worst because there are so many people Who do do it for the worst reasons? I'm always like damn that's a missed opportunity because that could have gone a completely different direction Obviously, I'm biased in this regard one of the first episodes of efat. We had j axion and since has become One of the closer friends I've had on on the internet, you know and that could have gone a completely different direction easily Could have been really bad like he covered my stuff. We brought him on talk to him and everything got settled You know what I mean? um And so like I I feel like you as a very uh great influence on film as an art form And drinker as uh someone i'm very much invested in in that way I feel like this is easy for a connection to be made and for um, you know Certain things that need more attention to potentially be filtered through Not to mention, you know, I would love to have you on open bar as a guest. Obviously, I'd have to talk to him about it um And it's unfortunate that like this would be the first major interaction Technically speaking as opposed to something more neutral or rather literally just a conversation where Ideas can be shared as opposed to different directions being going down because um Like I said, I've got a decent investment in both of you and I just feel like it's uh There's a lot you guys would agree on opposed to the opposite Uh-huh. Yeah, I mean In the stream that I made I agreed with like half of it But you know my main concerns are more with the nuance and I guess more the intent of where we're trying to attribute these mistakes from whether or not it's uh, you know bad writing or like a cultural You know like trying to to form culture into like a specific way um Yeah, we we have agreements and we have disagreements. Uh, here's my question. So do you feel You asked me how much I felt Of my criticisms in this video held up to you know, like a perfect standard or whatever or You know, there's there's some assumptions that were made and Uh, some misinterpretations and you know, I went pretty pretty good faith and uh You know Didn't make an essay video or like an attack video or anything. I don't think but Um, do you feel as though any of my criticisms were justified? Uh Yeah, there's a couple of things that I think drinker could word for more clarity um, but the problem of course is that he's in a relatively quick interview and he doesn't know What should necessarily be explained further or what would be misunderstood? Um, I would still recommend that if you wanted to do anything of this kind of approach to him on a stream That the better move would have been to check out like three videos from him About three things you're like familiar with give me a list Oh, well, uh, Okay. Yeah, I will and and you'll be interested to see you check out his uh, what his woke video as well Do what you think okay Put that on put that on the list Uh Were we uh Yeah, what were we planning on talking about copyright or no Did we want to do I don't want to make you stay for even longer. Holy shit It's eight and a half hours if I assume we're on the same team with the the copyright stuff, right? I think so. Yeah, well, I mean we can we can have a little blurb if you want go for it Whatever you want. I don't know if Were you planning on it being like an in-depth conversation or like watching any xqc stuff? Oh, well, we're doing that for the next evap. We're gonna watch the h3 Excuse me debate that that was gonna happen with particular gas, but we're gonna have to move it around It won't be tomorrow guys. That's not gonna be happening anymore. Um Be next week, but yeah Um If you wanted to join us for that you're welcome to uh, no, I don't have time. I'm fucked Yeah, well, um stuff around to do this We seriously appreciate the hell out of you spending this much time with us to talk through all this stuff and that uh, I think there's Hella toxicity as someone might say between different communities clashing hard But I think the this kind of communication is honestly rare and should be something that we work toward more so than uh by way from Yeah, I mean like, you know, I I understand that not everybody is on the same wavelength about everything. Uh You know, I feel like I make that clear with the type of I guess content that I produce and the type of Presence I have on the internet.  Um, we're probably gonna talk a little bit about the state of everything dates There's some uh shopkeeping so to speak to let the fat community know about but other than that.  Do you want to link the link your preference? Sure Um Well, uh Which one do I prefer? I guess I guess I prefer kick right now because uh Well, I've got your um, your main channel is in the description, of course Uh, you can sort of take the opportunity if you want to tell people on youtube, but no, no, of course I just mean in general talk to people about what you do and why they should subscribe to you, of course Oh, uh My main channel is your movie sex. You can find it by going to youtube.com slash at yms Uh, I made a pretty good video debunking a 25 year old animation conspiracy called yms kimba I made a pretty good video line king part one Uh, I made a pretty good video yms the little mermaid, uh, and if you enjoy those then I hope you I hope you get hooked enough to listen to me talk about smaller films and uh, You know expand your your media diets and hopefully when it means hopefully it means something when I recommend Something and everybody checks it out, uh, or when I strongly recommend something when I give a six out of 10 You don't have to watch it You know it don't yeah, that's that's not a strong recommendation But if I give a fucking eight or above that means go see it, right? Yeah Yeah, I do game streams. I do editing streams. I do music. I make music Oh, wow He's a music maker movie review. I am Too you too. Did you not do did you not know that I did music? I knew it. I did I did know that you did music He sings he dances. He's the outro for a lot of your uh, older vids older videos. Yeah. Yeah It's the outro on the adam and pels What else do you do don't stop keep going You write books I have a food channel Oh, you did what I do this is actually news to me.  You can write off all of your food That's true. It's a it's a business expense. That's unironically true any if like if I get anything from my computer That's a business expense. It's everyone should have a food channel. It saves you money. Why abes eats? Literally Why not you save money reviewing all them foods out there.  I mean It's on camera. Sometimes I give my thoughts about it. Yeah, that's okay. I try to make a bit more of it like it It's a it's a part of the business it's part of the business model, you know, that's right. That's right Makes sense make that money chew that food Calories for cash. There's a clips channel. There's the yms highlights channel which is where the video we just reacted to came from and which is where My perspective of this stream will also be I might actually I might actually Should I show your chat in my upload as well because that could be edited in if I think that's something we should also do I don't know how much one would gain if they were a fan of your work to see e-fap chat on the screen for all of That they were incredibly angry Okay, no, they weren't exactly doing constructive Editions not I mean a lot of the word but a lot of them were just very very angry Do I have permission if we think that it's kind of funny? Maybe I wasn't looking I didn't have the tab open but Um, it's the kind of what I was talking about is like people get very uh, sensitive I think you've talked about it right like Taking personal insult when creators they prefer It happens. Yes. I've talked about this many times. Yeah So I would like to point out someone in chat though. I like this comment. They said I'm not a fan of rags The yms is massively worse There you go rags. Oh, we could so there we can we could leave that there and let it simmer Let that marinate um Okay, yeah, uh, let me know By the way, if you've got no company and wouldn't mind it I'd happily watch boiling point with you tomorrow if you want I do have company.  I have this problem where I try to like work no matter what I'm doing Yeah Yeah, it's an issue. I'm about to do my cardio and stream it right I have Put it in chat. YMS on kick Go check them out. You can do cardio if I wind up doing a watch along Uh, would you even be like I don't know what your sleep?  Uh, whatever you I'd be able to make room for it because it is sunday tomorrow I don't think drink is back. So we won't be doing cash up. When do you sleep? It's a really good question. Oh that yeah, whenever we can you know Just whenever I don't know how you do this I wouldn't recommend it You gotta remember as well the convergence of three different drastically different time zones as well.  That's how far we're willing to go to save storytelling adam. That's right Where others are I drink a lot of coffee. Yeah, it's a problem. I think Do you do you eat during these also?  That's healthy. We should yeah, we should yeah, we could make we should make a king podcast I drink a lot too. I drink a whole bunch of water If we started a podcast called piss cast. Oh, dude. Yes. Yes.  Um, that might be the opposite of ours They actually tried that on a radio station, and it was also a kind Yeah, and you also had to drink water and a lady died. She was about to I think I'm worried about that.  I could believe that You can drink you can drink so much water that you do kill yourself. It is incredibly difficult But it's really done. I I feel like I've seen a video that how much is it isn't like Like 30 liters or something in a day Isn't like some insane amount of water that you would need to drink I my understanding is that it it was a large part contributed To the fact that she couldn't piss So um that you could drink as much water as you want as long as you're pissing Well, I think you can't get water poisoning right you can get poisoned by drinking too much water It's just that the amount is insanely high So while um this it says here that while uh while water is considered one of the least toxic chemical compounds Uh, it says drinking six leaders. No drinking six. It depends where you live. I suppose Uh, but drinking six liters in three hours has caused the death of a human Oh, water it water death by water intoxication is possible But it should probably not be a concern of yours. Most people probably just can't do that Well, I mean the problem that most people have is I don't drink enough water That's that's way more of a problem than drink water everyone Don't drink three liters in six hours. No, no, no, don't be doing that and don't drink spark Wow, you can drink sparkling water if you don't drink sparkling water. It's nasty. We'll make that illegal soon Hmm. Oh, I mean getting the important things done I mean, it's probably something wrong with it, right? Like it's got to be worse than just regular water in some way Well, like nutritionally, I don't know. I don't need air in my water if I need air. I'll just breathe Air in your water Yeah, all the little bubbles. It's like carbon dioxide or something right or nitrogen. What gas do they use? I have no idea. I've never thought to really look into sparkling water as a as a thing I hate it. Me neither. I think it's I don't like it in my life. I don't like it It's weird. Why what is it about all it all it is is carbonated. It's just I think it's just co2 Right, so it's just water and then they add co2 to it to make it all fizzy How does that make it Terrible Yeah, I don't get it.  Uh, which mineral? I don't know mineral water. I don't know. Uh, I don't I don't know. I assume it's probably I've never thought to look that up mineral water mineral about like what about like bismuth maybe Or I write to it says a mineral Do they have vegetable water most rocks they're minerals marie It's apparent so apparently uh Because it varies but mineral water can often have potassium magnesium sulfate calcium carbonate sodium sulfate I I don't I don't know what anytime to really I don't potassium is but those are the ones Yum, you can get that from bananas Yes, which you can get poison from eating too many bananas, right potassium But banana intoxication, but how many bananas is too much? Um, I'm gonna say I'm gonna say seven You reckon that's a cut off seven's too much Seven seven is just too many bananas. Yeah, but throughout your life or in a day Yeah, throughout your life. Yes, okay Stop it. I think I've already kept that out right a month.     Thank you so much Yeah, you're a real Yeah, you should you should do streaming coming on in general to talk about it. Of course, of course it would be Be kind of weird if I didn't No Obviously, it's up to you. I hope we see you again for halloween Yeah, oh, of course. Yeah Everyone watching spooky movies Uh, what link should I give? Let's see kick w-w-w Oh, I've been posting your kick link dot com slash yms. Oh, yeah. Well, all right. Thank you Well, if people are gonna join I'm gonna be playing some beat saber Why didn't I always think it was kik? I always thought it was kik Why why did you think I think you're because I just think that's a chat application Uh, maybe That's a different thing. Yeah, but for some reason I just thought kick was kik Maybe yeah, maybe it's the app, but that's just something I Yeah See that's that's pretty reasonable misconception All right, peace. I'm okay. Bye Goodbye Hi boy Right flick chart is asking whether I what it's better dumb and dumber or mrs. Doubtfire Oh Oh, that's that's interesting. I don't know it comes in a very long time. So I can't gun to my head I'm gonna go with mrs. Doubtfire, but I feel like it's close Yeah, I don't know which one I'm gonna go for I think I'll go with mrs.   Yeah um, so I guess first, uh Rags if you wanted to say anything about anything you're up to and then we can talk about The what's gonna be happening the next few weeks I have no updates I have no updates work carries on. So um, yeah, I don't want to make any promises, but work carries on Yep, so the current situation EFAP lads Is the the video good old quantamania video is like a day and a half's work worth Away from being 100 billion percent complete. The main thing that's missing Is the part at the end where and I guess this acts as a form of vague Reannouncement That uh me me rags and fringes have set up a good old new thing It ain't a plushie this time Actually, uh, it's actually a new kind of thing that is all but essentially 100% Good to go. So I assume you guys are right with me. Uh talking a bit about it. All right Um, yeah, I think so. I think so You okay fringy? You're gonna That's why I'm saying this. I can't think of any but in case, you know, just let me know You never know. You never know.  So it's uh, it's vinyl figures is what we've got going One for each of us. They're quite neat. Um, I would show you imagery, but it's not 100% good to go right now um The other problem is that they may not be good to go Before it's literally down to the days that we've almost got it set up, but it's so close. It might not be set up in time And so all that'll mean is the video would be delayed by a week Uh until that that matches And so I think that if that because the original plan is to release the video on the 19th Meaning wait, when's the last? EFAP supposed to happen Never when we die, uh, that'll be that will be the Okay, we're gonna have to do the next EFAP a different day We'll have to figure that out. Okay Because yeah, because of course the plan was originally to do it tomorrow But we couldn't do it tomorrow because the guests have fallen through and we did get reschedule. So Uh, geez plans. Okay. So Next week the video is supposed to come out on the 19th. That is still in relative stone Um, I think from what I've seen we should be on on on we're good for that That seems to be the case. We should be good for that Worst case scenario move forward by a week and it comes out Oh I guess we'll be on the 25th because uh anniversaries are 26th, right? Is that what we did last year with dr. Strange? Did that come out on a friday? Uh, I thought it came out on I want to say like a wednesday or thursday I don't remember. Hold on. Did we do Was last year's anniversary. Did we do it on a sunday? Honestly, uh, no, we would have done it on I mean, you gotta stop saying sunday. I'm always Saturday Yeah, saturday saturday for me as well, but No, your guy saturday. It's always my sunday except for today. Today is saturday. Yay. It's still saturday for me Yeah, your video was friday yours was the 27th of august which was No, that was okay. That was saturday saturday the 27th. So we did do the anniversary on a sunday then I Are you sure? Well, because I thought we did it the day after the dr. Strange video came out.  Did I is I would remember that was down to the wire. It was unfortunately.  Well in any case that's the plan as Right now, but I'm trying to let you guys know Lay it out clearly again because I feel like it got confused there Next defab episode. We're gonna have to do it on like Wednesday 16th all unlikely um because the 19th is where The video is supposed to come out.  I feel like that would be a very silly idea That would be odd And then the following week on the 26th is the anniversary stream. That is the plan however If we can't get these vinyls ready to go by the 19th or rather Earlier to be honest with you because it needs time to set up um, the video would be moved forward a week And I mean the the the repercussion of that would likely be that the anniversary would be moved forward a week The video would be moved back a week Forward a week back a week. I mean You said forward a week. You mean back a week. Why would we go to back a week? We'd be moving the anniversary wait forward a week Why would it be back? Wait? Well, I I'm okay. I'm confused You guys figure this out and tell me what we're doing. I don't know. What are you confused about? What's happening? They'd be moving forward a week so Video 19th anniversary 26th if we can't get the the vinyls in time video 26th and then anniversary of the second That's back We're moving them backward a week Forward a week means closer than now I've never known it to mean that Moving forward a week. I I understand. I understand what you're saying. I I understand what fringy means and I understand Mahler's misconception I know I understand what's happening You're not neither of you are crazy neither of you are crazy. Don't worry Cloverfield's better than 300 Forward a week means Forward in time forward Okay Yeah, exactly. Yeah forward on the calendar means that it's being moved. Yeah before But forward temporarily means that it's happening further away from where we are now forwards to the future. Yeah, so that both of you As in moving it closer to where you are Yes, that's that's that's my understanding of it as well. I am staring we're gonna move the date forward. So I am staring at the the numbers and dates and I'm just looking at it back and forward timeline wise That's probably why I went with forward there as opposed to I will say The the majority of people commenting on who's right or wrong as they're Saying that I'm saying it correctly But now I don't know I understand when fringy What I know fringy is what I what my understanding of it is and what people mean around here at least That's what I think That it is now understood for chat that it means I will use later Different words. I will use sooner and later. There you go. Those ones a