All right, there we go. Hello everybody if it's Wednesday, it's Warhammer and that must mean it's time for another episode of Warhammer weekly Joining me as always is frankly an infestation in my life that just never seems to go away But yet somehow is joyful all the same. It's Tom. What's up, buddy? Hello friends, there you go. So you have to talk Tom so the camera goes to you Joining us this week for the first time and I am very excited to have him on the show. It's Bryce What's up, buddy? How you doing? Hey, thanks for having me We are very happy to have you on as I mentioned when we were talking before the show you I have been meaning to have you on for a long time and just like It was just happy. We finally made this work. So it was great to have you ma'am Absolutely can't wait to talk about the filthy nergal.  Well, I hope so That's the idea of having you on the show man But like I the the world of possibilities because that's just a thing Is has greatly expanded recently in pretty amazing ways because of the FAQ because of the slaves to darkness book And by the way, it's entirely possible. It expands more in like two weeks So we'll kind of talk about that a little bit as well. We'll have some fun We'll have some fun ring-a-ding-ding. I predict a thing time at the end, okay? Because like it is a good time to be a chaos player in general right now and and nergal has gotten a lion's share of Great things. So that is a understatement. Yeah. Yeah, it's time to uh, it's time to revisit the great grandfather and his and his many fold blessings that he visits upon us and The answer to the question that was already put in the chat. Is this the episode where Vince finally gets on the nergal train? No, I Will never ever ever have a nergal army Believe me. It also seemed apropos to do nergal right before the zinch book comes out You know, we've got to get his enemy in there and Also, nergal shouldn't be the enemy of zinch nergal should be the enemy of slanesh.  Are you saying that disease is the enemy of fun? No, I'm saying like thematically. I actually like that pairing I mean, you could you could make any of them hate each other for any reason But I actually very much you're saying like the wizard and warrior hating one another and then the disease and Excessive partying hate each other. It's more of the idea of the so so here's this isn't what we're talking about That's fine. So that's just about manufactured perfection, right? One self too excessive perfection in all ways Nergal is about organic perfection that that all striving toward building is pointless Right and that life just has to find its way in this destruction It's it's entropy through destructive life, right? And it's the opposite of what slanesh actually is not to mention that you've got beauty and ugliness like it even Yeah, prima facie level whereas corn and slanesh are actually best friends both represent extreme excesses, right like right Powerful bold warriors would fit at home in either one of those two gods, right? Right because both are seeking after excess in different ways. So any who not what I really wanted to get into but nonetheless That's fine. That's not how it is The it's wrong, but it is what it is. It's a nergal show. So we're talking nergal, right? That's what we're doing We're gonna talk nergal. That's right Okay So but first of course Some news and boy was it a big news week Who's ready? It was New Year's Day the New Year's Day the New Year's New Year's open show, whatever. I don't know what they're calling it. Whatever. They called it It was this last weekend and it was amazing We had some great stuff Tom. Is that where we're starting? Yeah, sure.  Yeah, although I did like the muscularity on the arm good definition on those muscles we had The AOS open day the 2020 reveals the things that obviously matter to us are Soonest would be wrath of the ever-chosen. Yes Yes, that's what I mentioned. That's some stuff. So yes. Yeah, go ahead. Give us the short pitch on this Yeah, so this is a campaign book. What happens is the OCR phone reapers are invading the all points They've decided they want it. So they're gonna take it So that they can enact a toll from all the realms Apparently, there's gonna be some new rules there for wandering monsters Roaming endless spells and even indeed siege warfare Um chaos players are going to be especially spoiled because they're gonna get some additional army options for Like the different hosts under Archeon's command I've also heard apart from this some of the the special rules that they talked about that That there's actually like a battalion for every faction in the book Like if you have an AOS 2.0 army, you are getting a battalion for your army. I hope that's true I really do. I don't know. I don't know if that is true Right, but I heard that like they did say all of the chaos people are getting new options They said knew like new army builds, but I've heard that everybody is getting a battalion in in the in the book So I don't know if that's true. That would be like 30 not maybe not even 30 battalions It'd be less than that now because of cities sigma are combined Regardless if that's true, that would be great like to give like a nice round of battalions sure or anything like that Yeah, I mean, there's also a bunch of other fun rules in there for like We don't we don't know if they are match play legal. I would anticipate they are they will have matched play points I would assume that the battalions would be but I like the fun narrative rules in there too like for wandering monsters Random uncontrolled endless spells, you know, just cool stuff like that that can be fun additions to to a game Yeah, exactly that not everything has to be a freaking tournament thing and I love stuff like that Bryce imagine what are you excited for I? Love the the narrative side of that to the wandering spells And I could see somewhere like a holy wars or even sometimes Don't miss that meltdown likes to throw in one of those things that maybe super competitive players don't love But that give it that little flair so I I could see something like that being a lot of fun and kind of spice and things up a little bit So the the little narrative stuff is always fun And I love when they started earlier in the year because then it kind of seems like they keep building on it throughout the year instead of Having shipment delays in the summer and then it doesn't get released. No greed Yeah, like imagine if like a balefire tourist just wandered around the battlefield for the entire game Yeah, man, that would be amazing That like narrative one came in malign sorcery or whatever where you can do the purple sun purple sun Molten ox or whatever his name is. Yeah, that's like one of my favorite scenarios It's actually a really fun scenario to play I might I might add and I think the only reason it doesn't get used is turn at tournaments is because you need you would need like 50 purple Because it's a perfectly valid like interesting cool scenario with a lot of interplay We've used it many times in just our our basement game and always had good games out of it But like this is the kind of stuff I One when you get a lot of fun narrative stuff like that Then there's no rules bloat right because it's not like the tournament stuff the match play stuff that you've got to keep in Your head at all points in time. Yeah, it's just fun options. You can use in your home game when you want to Yep, awesome. All right That's a huge win when your If they just add some battalions, that's cool. I am always sensitive to like how much other I Don't want to carry a ton of books I mean like I don't carry in this too. We just killed like five books. You had to carry with exactly Right, great. We can we can start adding more now Yeah, I hope it doesn't like restart and then it's five more books this year that we have to carry until they combine them And it's just a never-ending cycle exactly as long as they make it. So it's it's like I Wouldn't want to see more than two of these a year Right, and I don't think you'll get more than one a year, right? Because like the idea is that I don't know Tom We're not making army books for every army under the sun anymore. So we've got options on the table I mean, it's true. You're not wrong It's funny that like last week we predicted like one of the things I predicted was like some type of additional campaign material Yeah, yeah, and then yeah, and then like two days later Congratulations everybody so exciting Yeah, we also got some like the shadespire ogre group which was adorable With the hunter Congratulations plastic hunter great awesome cool love that looks yeah, I love the table. He looked cool Plastic frostsaber singular. This is like when AOS launched and we had riptooth like the only plastic You know flesh out was the dude on corgis Cole's arm and it was like, well, how am I gonna get units of those? So you're not buying 30 shadespire boxes to get a 30 No frost sabers you need So like no the next thing that should be announced is also we took that plastic frostsaber We took that mold and we just pumped them out into a kit like they eventually did with flesh outings, right? Yep It'll be the next release for ogres. So three years coming in We also found out that the slaves of darkness stuff that we've been waiting on is gonna be here momentarily That's really exciting.  I cannot get that's for ranks soon enough. All right, Bryce Fulmeroid crusher sphere ranks ogreid Miramadon who you like and out of those three? Oh the Miramadon. Yeah, it's not even close comparison for me. I love that thing Do you like him both aesthetically? Do any of them have any play in the game as far as you're good like mechanically? I Mean the Sphinx I guess you could probably say has I think the best but I think aesthetically The the ogren is I just I loved the flameturge. Yeah sure terrible with words But so just to have a second option and the conversion things you can do with that. I'm I'm all for it.  I might exactly yeah So like yeah, I saw an awesome conversion using the new like Lord on karka track Like body of that thing with the thalmeturge and somebody turning it into the the dragon ogre shotgun the shot Yeah, it was beautiful. Yeah, it's a good combo. That's a good combo Yeah, so I mean I'm super excited for those guys.  It's like my favorite model I almost made him the picture that's up on the show But but I did not because that would it wouldn't really been using that just but it just would have been for me Just so I could stare at his adorable little face all day Well, I love that guy.  All right. So yeah, so those are coming soon next couple weeks and then Pointy elves Bryce would you like to talk to us about why you were excited about pointy elves my friend you you've got a reason I Am a big elf guy of all all sorts So it doesn't it's not just the pointy ones I like but I've I've been dying for a high elf update since AOS dropped and I'm more pleased than ever because I think I've tried to convert every order army into elves to make them more playable So now I don't have to do that and I can just play with what they release so I Will just like to say starting off on the pointy elves discussion. I Probably nailed it last week. We don't know for sure But it certainly you're right What they like my prediction during last week's show was when you see these new elves What they're going to be is they're gonna take all the old sculpts and reimagine them a step farther away Then from what they were then chaos warriors But they'll still feel like they're paying homage To the old sculpts and then we get that preview and they're showing us like the sketch art of all the old elves They're like we're gonna make these new pointy elves and it's and clearly they didn't show you the art of the old elves To then reveal something that's a complete left turn, right? Yeah, like they're not it'll feel right. Yeah, it's gonna feel like what it is And then they have the silhouette of of techless who's up on the screen right now like okay We get it. It's tackless cool. You can you know, you can just show us tackless now And I think that's the perfect way to do it I know you've you already kind of talked about it but it's like for those of us who who just love that range and Want it? I know they're trying to take things in new direction But to still hold on a piece of that instead of just deep kidding the elves, you know, I think that's I think that's awesome Yeah, it's a question of like how much are any of the old sculpts that got 86? Actually going to be able to be used time will tell on that one I mean, it's not like you're gonna use your old techless I mean, I'm sure some people will but like I have a distinct impression that new techless is gonna be a pretty amazing model Yeah, like this is that the kind of model that's silhouetted here on the screen now and the kind of model that techless is This is their sweet spot, right? Like this is the kind of thing that they have been Killing it with right So I can't wait for the worst major in AOS history to come back. Whoa In Warhammer history, I didn't mean to limit that tager sigmar Just pretty much the worst ever the the person who's truly at fault for most everything wrong Mr. Full of himself is is back so that's great Well, I'll say this It's been four years of calling elves Yep, they're always right around the corner the army of the future Of saying this is the one folks And yeah, I mean, I'm excited what happens now though, are you like are you lost? What do you predict now? I? I don't know Like I'm like we're gonna talk about this. I'm on a little bit of a low Tom's had a week. It's been a it's been a week of roller coasters regarding Warhammer. So I I don't know.  I'll say is this We'll wait and see sure fair enough. Here's why I'll say don't wait and see Tom's being a Debbie Downer and I'm gonna tell you why these pointy elves are gonna be too good Here's why cuz every time ever that they've done an army like this It's been really good and plus this will be in the wheelhouse It'll probably be a largely melee speed focus type of blah blah blah army like elves always are you look at the kid? When you look at what elves are made up of things that move pretty fast They're kind of tricksy. They have decent magic and they hit decently hard in melee Those are exact armies that they keep knocking out of the park and being able to design well Right. Yep. Like I hear your house. I hear your hope But that's the path of pain So I'm just gonna wait and see what happens and if and if they're good and I like the sculpts Then I might pick up some but I'm not gonna give my hopes up. That's fine. You can knock a drop some and no Knock a knocker in the thread. No, I'm definitely not saying power creep is real Because there's just not like books jump as we'll discuss like even right now even when to come out at the same time often times I'm old releases Yeah, so no cuz power One of these is not like the other would look like this and it just it doesn't it looks like a heartbeat monitor Yeah, like ogres an OBR dropped in the same book And it's like in the same in the same time.  I've got the joke Yeah, look, I thought of this two days ago. I've been ready, okay I've been on this joke for two days Here we go Tom. You're right two books are dropping this weekend One of them is an alpha striking shooting army that can blow off 90 to 100 wounds crippling some armies and just tabling others completely into smoke at the top Before they ever get to drop a dice and the other ones KO Boom I mean and yeah true Thanks Vince. I didn't even have to say it. You're right. That is true Yeah, yeah, and and so that's why I'm down and that goes to our next news piece all the reviews and everything got leaked out this week and Some of the books are you know pages are floating around and And we talked about the meta being reshaped Post K last like last week we talked specifically about KO and specifically about Zeech Unfortunately, I regret to inform you that I was correct That of the two books Zeech would have the outsized impact and KO would not okay My guess was in the long run the KO book would look weaker, but in the long run will be stronger I'm gonna stand behind that prediction only because but I but when I say long run, I mean like I gotta wait No, not to the books. I gotta wait like one or two GHB and points adjustment cycles So this is playing the two and a half year long game No, it's like a year in a year. My prediction will be a hundred percent that is iron clad Okay, that predict right as I Yeah, I mean we've seen glimpses of the books The reality is is that Zeech has some really good shooting like it just it's a really great well-rounded book And we'll cover that in two weeks And then probably that's the week. I'm in Australia. So Well, and we then we've got to do a show which I think I'm gonna do from From somebody's house there so we can probably wait on Zeech in because what that allows that allow the Zeech FAQ to drop because like an FAQ is not gonna save KO Like unless they're rewriting the book like they did last time with an FAQ Like in changing ranges and values and all that Nothing's gonna save this book. And so So we can do the KO book next week and then we'll wait maybe two weeks to do the Zeech book, right? Yeah, exactly. We'll see schedule pending folks. We'll see how But Gary we will be doing a show for for when I'm in Australia Yeah, I just like that week will be yes Hopefully coach is gonna have me over this house house since he posted in the chat. I can say it Coach that wasn't me forgetting. I'm coming over your house, buddy Not one if you wanted me to say that so but thank you. Yes coach has invited to let me come over and hang out there that morning so I can do the show and and And so You just like if we can do Zeech that morning I'd love to do it with coach since I'll be there at his house and he I can just sit there and do it But I just don't know how much time we're gonna have and what my flights look like and all that kind of stuff I mean, I'll be getting off like a 17 and a half hour flight. So and if Australia will have burned down by then Like so, you know, yeah, it's Understand that that show may be wonky. Well, we will do a show, but it may be wonky because that's how things work But next week we will do KO with Gary personal. Yes, that's right Gary P. We're gonna talk one of the pre-eminent Admirals himself as there's a couple of them around the world the pre-eminent and for those of you guys that That enjoy beverages, I want to remind you next week. We're gonna have a drinking game Oh boy And so make sure that you bring your drink your drink of choice to Warhammer weekly next week because we have a game And I think we're doing it at 5 p.m. In the afternoon Eastern. So it'll be day drinking a lot, but Bring your drink Okay So, yes, it will still be Wednesday Paul for people who are watching the show in the non-Australian Timezone it will actually be I will be in Australia So it'll be Thursday for me when I'm doing it, but it'll be Wednesday here So that's the idea of the thing because the world is crazy. Yo, you know So yeah, that's what's happening Yeah, I mean all in all it's there they're cool I like I think both books are interesting as I say and I really do mean that I don't mean that in any negative way or in any There's no connotation to that. I think both books are interesting No, I would I would agree with that. I think both books are interesting. Yeah in very different ways Yeah, sure, and ultimately I think Zeench is kind of bent and I think KO is Frustrating in its design, but that doesn't mean it's bad. So would you say that it's bent or broken? I would say it's bent trending broken. That's been the constant thing I've said I it's hard for me to say broken without seeing something played You know bottom line I can I can look at something on paper look at a couple builds and go this is looks very bad Right. Yes, and then I can say a lot of this seems negative But you know, I've been wrong before when I win a you guessed just off math hammer But when I look at the inch I say it's it's like it's bent trending broken with a couple things that seem really really Really negative and like if it turned like here's what I'll say if you told me Three months from now that like Zeench ended up with a 70 75% win ratio if it looked like slanash at its height Yep, I would say yeah, that doesn't surprise me Yeah, I would agree with that. Yeah. I mean what I'll say is this there is a build That's not hard to get into That would give you Do you remember back in the day like since chaos from chaos releasing this week? I can invoke this so three years ago 2017 First KO book dropped and everybody lost their mind about thunders, right? Everybody was afraid of everybody running all these mortars of running like 40 Thunders two blocks with a chemist and then shooting like d3 damage like 80 shots across the table Those are rookie numbers right here you got to pump those numbers up Yeah, which like with having flamers shooting 18 inches that can teleport and That are on twos and twos neg one rend d3 damage and having 72 of those attacks Um The reality is the average damage output assuming you get into range with all of them Which is not too difficult is and they're shooting at you know units with a four up save is about 75 damage right after the so So they will remove your average They will remove a slanash army off of the table correct on the numbers before oh and it's one drop I forgot to mention that yeah, it's one drop. So That happens yeah, but we'll get into detail at the same side like one of the things I mean look just to just to sprinkle a little bit of fun positivity in here, too The one thing I will say on the KO flip side of it is man Do I love all the boats now like they did yeah Like you know how much I wanted the boats to feel like big boats and to be and they do man I love all three of the boats. I think they're all three interesting. They all three do fun stuff different things They all three have good uses There are boat of facts in there now as as As Rob has dubbed them there. They're the great Endron works or boat artifacts They're boat of facts and boat of facts needs to be a thing and I love them. They're great So I like the boats still remain a part of the the army that I looked at I was like I love everything about these I'm in yeah, like as long as you're not putting as long as you're not putting things in the boat And as long as you're not trying to like As long as you don't care about engine rigors like it's fine. Yeah, good boats are great I'm buying two ironclads. That's what I'll tell you like that's happening So, you know, yeah, I'm buying two ironclads and those aren't for a KO army. Those are two ironclads going into Tempestine cities of Sigmar. Yeah, we're going to be free son. Here's a preview of next week Right KO function best In cities of Sigmar. I don't know about best, but they really do well like like there's more There's no synergy in the two pages of the Tempestine book than in all Yes, okay, so KO plays best in Tempestine Ironically if you want to play a KO army fire slayers are your bet And that is not a lie Terry P is in the chat and said two clads in the cities are lit and I agree with you They are in fact lit because they are real good at any rate. This is what we're talking about. So we'll get to it next week Fun stuff, uh, you know, I don't I don't know that we can I'm sure we could just run race to race around ourselves But you know, yeah, it's fun. There you go. We expect that the KO show will be next week. So there we go Okay Cool. And yes, the boats are the ironclad the frigate. Somebody asked in the things what I would have meant the ironclad the frigate and the gun hauler of The Keradron overlords faction. I think everybody knows but I'll be clear We do shorten our verbiage sometimes and those who aren't who maybe haven't seen the book yet wouldn't know So there you go uh, cool And I I do think there would be a really fun conversion project here I mean, I already saw the previous one but converting KO to Skaven. I do love that idea Seems amazing. I I don't know who the gentleman was who did the whole converted army In the uk, but it's one of my favorite converted armies of all time. So whoever you are.  Did we cover all the news? um Yeah, I think so I think so Okay, cool rock on then gentlemen some pick of the week. So brice you're on the spot Uh-oh, you've got to suddenly have a thing What would you like to share with everybody? Oh, man, I think I would like to share Can I share a future project what it's going to be share whatever you like like something that's coming um, so for our our teams event at uh adepticon this year What got together and wanted to do a hobby forward project. So I Am doing something with archie on that a few people have done, but it's probably a lot different than what you might expect Okay, all right. So stay tuned. So so here's here's what we should do there Is I assume there's a place they could follow you To know more about that. So why don't you share that with ironically? Um, yeah So, uh, you can follow me on twitter. My handle is at moose geek underscore that underscore will get you Finding brice on twitter originally for me Why know what his name is? I know it's musky. Why can't I find him? Yeah, that almost it's tricky one at the end there Um, but yeah, I try to share stuff on there often and I have that and my holy wars project going on simultaneously So a lot of uh, big conversions and stuff coming up here in the in the next two months Nice nice dig it. Awesome. Uh, you're I will I will drop your twitter Down in the description so everybody can just go straight through and follow Uh tom, what would you like to share with everybody? Are you thinking right now? No, I'm still thinking about uh warplighting vortex and kale. Sure. Um, Sorry I Yeah, um I'm gonna talk about uh I'm gonna spruke. Uh warhammer tv had a special today where they talked about aether war and they talked about the zinge book and the kale book and um and nick horth actually uh wrote all the lore so nick horth did city of secrets Um, which was the really uh, like successful like the lamentation series stuff Um with the new like callous and toll books and all that And uh, nick did the lore for the kale book and the short story there and he's written a novel Associated with it as well. So just it was a fun. Um, I was I was excited to watch people be excited about the book Yeah, sure. No, I mean it's and there are a lot of people who are let's be honest and and also and like and like not trying to like Talk up the mechanics like ben and nick like leaned into the lore in the story and we're real Let's face it. Pyratical mercantile sky pirates Are pretty much the coolest thing in age or sigma from a from a narrative perspective like That is that is aos on 11 right there, right? Like the whole idea of what they are is amazing. So Yeah, and that's why they get warp lightning vortex. Absolutely. Of course they do. That's no no issue there We're right in line So, uh, I my pick of the week. I'm gonna shout out Uh, our good buddy dug over at two plus tough And talk to the war cry players out there, especially if you're someone who's newer looking to get into war cry Doug published a video. I will link down below where he looks at the three books that have released for war cry so far So, you know, kind of like the core book the tomah champions and the monsters and mercenaries and talks about like What each actually offers do you need them that kind of thing? So it's a nice little review of the books that are out so far and what you actually need to play war cry so if you haven't got to yet, it's a very fun game and You know, that's a good way to just kind of get a quick like 20 minute overview Of the books the value you find in them and decide whether or not you want to make that purchase So there you go. It's a great bed as for all of us Uh rock and roll. So that will also be linked down below Gentleman hobby time so brice you're working on a lot of projects as you mentioned So what's on your desk right now? I can see in the background some morgast Our air and hi or something of that nature. Those are those are practice for uh painting for adepticon I I have some of the corpus cabal that i'm converting into uh Some form of mounted riders either uh blood knights or black knights. I haven't quite Decided for sure yet People into the mount into mounted riders. I like it. Yeah a lot of them do a wide stance You don't have to decide until you put those on the table But when I base them that's when it really matters. Oh, yeah. Yeah, but um, and then I'm I'm also converting a turtle Uh into a hydro turtle Okay, so it well, I like everything about that That will that will be kept secrets uh until holy wars. I like to do that every year I keep one my big conversion project secret until the day of but um So progress won't really be shared, but it's gonna kind of continue the thing I did this year with the statues and reanimation and stuff like that So it will be a hydro turtle statue and I'm Having a lot of fun. It's probably one of the more challenging things I've ever tried To make the heads look right, but it's been it's been fun and I'm I'm excited to to play the turtle now that it's It's hard to say playable, but can can fit in a list easier sure Yeah, absolutely that it's that it can be played. That's fair. Yes. Yeah, nothing wrong with that. I think that's perfectly fair Uh Okay Cool, tom what you working on man? Um, well in between working on my earth card berserkers. I've been uh, right in a bunch of lists this week Uh, I'm pretty sure I'm locked in on my uh, my havoc I think I'm gonna do a cult of zeech to pair with fence next year for havoc You say that now, but we we're gonna wait like this is going to be months before we make this decision So that's yeah, I mean I get that I also like the you know The idea of like doubling the size of my army at the top of one Do you really want to bet on the fact that that survives the ghp? What that what survives the ghp zeech Like what are they gonna nerf karak acolytes?  That's all that's just mechanics of the book fair You know, you go to like you go to like 2000 points at the top of one 25 in turn two. Sure Seems reasonable. Yeah, totally reasonable sounds like a fun game Cool. Well, that that'll be good then. I don't have to play My army can't just show up and you can do all that and I'll just let you fight I'm just planning on you leaving early again. So I'm making sure that That I have, you know, two full armies there at the top of one. You're ready to go in case I've got a bail. Okay. Bye Okay, no, so so all right, cool, cool, uh, the perfectly fine um I as well have been working on refining Playing with a lot of lists, of course and running a lot of numbers Uh, lock it up the the tempest I 2000 points. I want as I said, I am by I'm getting two iron clads One of which is going to be named the drunken flugal Which will obviously say it could be since they're on the star drake base I'm going to put big wings on on both my boats And so one of them can be an iron clad or it can be a big star drake Whichever one I decide to make it because it'll be like you said to look like a draconic iron clad. So it doesn't matter They're like it it gets determined when you put it on the table Yeah, same size base and it's from that same amount of points. So You know 500 510 Boom Exactly two different ways to play plus. You got a great shooty Trait and tempest I and you got a great melee trait and tempest I so you can kind of go either way, you know Play the art list and a couple of very fun ways It might be a fun way to do nash con where I just have like the two different lists But literally it's the same It's the same figures. I don't have to break more figures, right? I've just built them all to literally like completely be a transformative list like one is heavy shooting and one is heavy melee But it's the same figs. Um, I think that could like nash con is generally a good chance to do fun experiments like that. So In that format. So that's what I'm kind of looking at there Which will probably be where I roll out that army for the first time Um, and I really like I mean, I really like everything about tempest I and the conversions that I'm doing this army It takes a freaking long time, but hey, that's okay Uh, but my actual hobby time has been spent on these guys Uh, these chaos warriors who I'm sure that's not showing up on screen Um, but that's okay There he is. Hello, mr. Ah uh and I have been painting these guys non-stop since last week when I had the initial stuff down and uh, it's been a project It's been a project turns out 20 chaos warriors on these new sculpts. It's a time consuming thing Uh, very detailed, especially if you want to take them to quite a high level, which I do So, you know They're getting there though. I'm close now. I'm close. I I think by this weekend I'll be done So there you go Uh, we'll we'll see how it all turns out All I've got left on them at this point is their weapons and some finishing effects. So Not too bad. Uh, some of their weapons. I should say Uh, and then the bases which are made but I need to paint them Uh rock on so, uh, it'll be good to have this unit done and that'll be two units done for my initial like Uh for the the crimson somebody gave me a name last week. I wrote it down and now I don't remember it I gotta go back and look no, but I want to let me take a moment to thank everybody. I like I wrote it down and it's fine I've got it. Um, because I wrote it down in a word document started sketching out some narrative. Um I really want to thank everybody for giving such awesome ideas last week on the show Like there was so many people who gave so many great comments and suggestions It was a it was an embarrassment of riches. I had so thank you to everyone who who gave some awesome ideas Um at any rate Gentlemen, shall we talk? Uh, shall we talk some nergal? Should we get into the great grandfather? Yeah, let's do it. All right. So let's let's start at a let's start at a high level I want to start by saying, you know, why are we even coming to talk about nergal? So let me lay some ground work here One uh, the winter f aq Obviously gave them the fix that They've needed for life. The most long overdue fix probably in the game. I'd say that sounds correct Yes of making all the the all the blight related people go to unmodified sixes and there was much rejoicing without without actually adjusting the uh With the spell blades of petrification, right? So surprisingly the spell can still be modified sixes Which was a really interesting decision on their part. Yeah Which i'm i'm fine with I was cool with that Like yeah, no, I agree that it is a really hard army to get plus one to hit in like it doesn't come from a lot of places Yeah, I think you've got right and then, you know, things like that It's not there's a grass snack grass snack and knights Knights with the lord on the demonic mount lord of proctor doc. Yeah, like that's your those are your plus two. Yeah To moon of force and there's so there's no oh And marauders cast marauders sure who have it built in yes. Yeah. Yep. Um, well and that's thank you that leads me exactly What a great segue uh, you're welcome. That's why I said it To the other thing that has been a big boost to nergal Which is obviously those little chaos warriors and that I was holding up and ie the slaves to darkness, right? Yep, we just got a bunch of new units with a bunch of powerful abilities now We don't and and nergal I think came out the best of all of the Chaos gods does that seem fair anybody disagree with that statement? What do you mean? Define best within the slaves to darkness book in current.  I thought you're just talking about in general No, no, no within the s2d book. Yep, right I think nergal came out with the best suite of varying abilities across the synergistic potential pieces fair statement. Yeah Oh, yeah, yeah, I think that nergal by far exceeds the uh, I mean corn is close. Let me say that Or is really good. Yeah corn is really good Uh, nergal's probably better. We don't have an faq yet. Unfortunately. I was hoping we would have that by yesterday Um, but uh, we don't have an faq. So that could change with the faq Yeah, well, we we have a distinct feeling that there's going to be like there's going to be something that's addressed Which is the nergal demon prince like we know that will be addressed in something is going to change We don't know what's going to change right right and they did actually put out a little comment today Saying that the faq is coming very soon It just obviously got a little more delayed because of the christmas holidays and stuff and you know what Super fair. Yeah, like I yeah, totally. Okay with that like come on now I don't need the faq that bad the difference a week of difference means nothing Enjoy your holidays be with your family like at the end of your life on your deathbed You're not gonna sit there going I wish I had done that that faq a week earlier No, you're gonna wish you spent more time with your family and friends. So get out of here. That's what holidays are for That's what matters in life So I fault no one for for having that delay um All right, so brice let's let's start at the beginning Let's kind of let's kind of talk here about Uh, let's talk about some nergal specifically the stdp s2d pieces. Sorry they got added that are are decent So what's the stuff we should talk about here within slaves to darkness? Uh through through the nergal lens Well, I think the the the thing that just jumps out of the book is the battalion Ah, yes, I mean That's crazy So I know nothing about this battalion. So I assume yes the plague touched right? Yes the plague touched warband So I have a bookmark in my in my uh Book here, uh, so it is a slaves to darkness mortal hero hero And seven slaves to darkness mortal units, which could also be heroes obviously, yep, so it's Literally anything you want with the nergal keyword basically as long as it's mortal, uh, and then Uh, so this is it's a little hard to understand the first time you read it But I'll do my best, uh, if the unmodified wound roll for an attack made with the melee weapon Targets a unit from this battalion and it's a six the attacking unit suffers one mortal wound In addition in your hero phase, you can pick one unit uh from this battalion And roll a dice and it does mortal wounds on a three plus So every time you attack me and roll a six you take the wound and back Yes, a six to wound you take a mortal wound. Yep It's been like this since uh, it came out the first time in the original ever chosen book Um and performed very well back then as well And now it's back and we should also state ironically the average number of units Probably in an army is eight Right, so like the fact that it's one in seven actually means you can build a pretty standard army And you don't have to like stretch you know But I will say that when you try to build lists with this, uh, if you're wanting to do demons Particularly the spoilers, um, you end up having to stretch like you end up having about two more units And you actually want to have yeah, so it actually ends up being a nice balancing Like even though it's the right number if you go into to add any demon princes you're you feel That you are you're actually stretching yourself quite then Yeah, totally Totally fair. Yeah, I mean, I think this is an amazing amazing battalion It can it can pretty easily either be a one drop if you're willing to stay pure mortal You know if you wanted to be like in the ravagers or something like that where you're just summoning on dudes You could run out of this one drop it and feel real good about that Um, if you're real good in fact, yeah, you have five heroes three large blocks and one drop. Yeah. Yeah Like that's a solid basis for that. Especially since you know, you're gonna be summoning on 50 more dudes, right? Yeah And you could in that in that five heroes you can have a man to core lord You can have a lord on cockadrock. You can have some, you know foot wizards and a lord, uh, chaos lord Yeah, I mean this is an expensive battalion. It's 180, but it's it's worth it. It's super worth it Or you can go to like two drop as you said there or three drop and have like a demon prince or a demon prince and bellicord Just it's going to put a lot of pressure on your units. But yeah Yeah You end up with a lot more chap Yeah, sure Right on the one drop is not super common anymore these days. So it's like getting mad is is pretty nice Well It wasn't until the zing drop drops. Yeah No, I agree. It is it is a very uncommon thing Uh, like even even with zing, there's there's you know, I ha ha, but you know, you're right I mean like armies that can actually build like a good one drop. Let's say it that way because there's a couple things There's a couple books. They've had like janky weirdo one drops Where it's like, okay, sure you can build your whole army out of basically garbage in one drop, right? Yeah, um But like this is quite a competitive one drop, I think And I'll say this like we've really went through a design change in the last couple years um Like battalions have traditionally been like two to three units normally one of those units You probably didn't want some, you know Battalions being fairly minor low point costed and with the std book with the zing book It seems like we've swung hard the other direction again And like we now have a proliferation of one drops because like it's not just we're talking about nervous right now But it's not just neural like the the corn book in that the corn army in that book. It does the same thing. Sure. Yeah um So it's just it's something to be aware of as you're building armies moving into the new competitive season As as a player. Do you like that or do you dislike that?  So do I You're saying you hate it so unpack that a little the The the one drop I feel like I like the battalions that are smaller and one of the units feels like Oh, I don't know because Then you're you're paying a price for all the good you get when it's like this is really good and it's a one drop Where's the cost other than the 180 points that as we said you can just bring on 50 dudes for basically nothing so I like to pay a cost to get the reward instead of just getting the reward for playing the army you want to play anyway Yeah, I mean, let me let me just real quick. Here's my here's my basic take on then I am interested what you have to say to that tom. I want you to I want to let you go but mine'll be quick I like one drops as a concept I wish they would be used more thoughtfully as an actual Benny or Sort of way that that army works if it's like thematically part of that army a thing they do And one of the overall you know sort of like one of the totals of the book is that they tend to be This army that could that will out deploy people that will be strategic right if that's how it was used You understand I'm saying if there was like a situational Awareness of it and it was deployed in that fashion Like so quick example like gets not an army that are getting one drops, right? They're just Lunatics or show up, you know, right? Yeah, uh somebody asked hold on on the in the comments. What does a one drop mean? That means that as part of your deployment As one deployment you can put your entire army on the table and what that ultimately means for the game Is that you will determine who goes first? Right, you will determine who takes the first turn, which means you whoever finishes deploying first Chooses if you have a one drop and your opponent has any more than that Then you automatically know that in most tournaments five out of five games You will be choosing who goes first your worst case is basically a coin flip because if you're both one drop Then it's whoever rolled off to deploy first, right, right? And so what ends up happening is that like you can build your army to capitalize on like giving them turn one To waste their turn and give your chances to yourself a chance for the double Alternatively, you can build your army such that like if it's a heavy like alpha army You can just plan on always going first and buffing up all your stuff and dumping all your damage Right Yep um so The So that that's all I would say on it, right? I wish they would be deployed because I think it's an interesting area to explore Like there's real design space here of like being able to define the character of an army Through their ability to win the quote-unquote deployment war, right? That's kind of a cool element Like a meta element to put an element in on the same. I just wish it felt like it was deployed more tactically Than it is now where it seems honestly kind of random because as I was pointed out Yes, like the gits do have one drops in like squiggle lanch and stuff like that's not good necessarily Right, like that's a but they spend so many points to get into that and to get all the right units in order to like Make it a one drop. That's very different than zeech going. Yeah, I'm just gonna one drop my army Sure, sure. Yeah. Yeah um And so My comment is simply this in a world where you are planning like when I think about like competitive play like the highest year competitive play With the expectation that moving into rounds four and five. I will be playing top armies Previously there was this really weird sweet spot of between four and six drops Yeah, right that if you ran a battalion you were in four to six if you didn't run a battalion You were up near like nine to twelve Right. Sure. And so like in this world where everybody's like five drops plus or minus one Real decisions were made in list building Right of is it worth me going and adding this one unit to move to six drops, right? Or do I go more conservative and get to four drops and basically guarantee beating everyone, right? but but now what ends up happening is like I don't make the decision between four and five drops in a world where I know one drops are in the meta Yeah, sure. And are fairly common. Yes Like if a one drop is fairly common if I know that like both zeech and nergal are you're not changing your decision because of squiggle That's been around forever, but you weren't concerned about that Right, but if I have to make a decision between going four or five drops when knowing one drops are in the meta Like I will go five drops every time Every time because in the games that it matters in games four and five It doesn't matter So the more optimal decision like having more drops doesn't change anything Like I have a I have a six drop list that I'm considering going to nine nine If one drops like if truly everything six was each going into this season Sure Because it doesn't matter at that point like at like at six drops. I'm already at the top So it doesn't matter if I jump up to nine. Yeah, it's better to have a like Well, this is class they wear a lot of cities armies and stuff always live right where they're just like whatever i'm at like eight I might as well go to 12, you know Right like that's exactly right. And so um, I agree with you vent I loved when like having less than four drops was a really big deal Sure Like that was a sign that was a like a marker of certain armies like k.o Could still do that right because like that's when you could deploy in ships. I mean incidentally, but yes Yes, uh now k.o They don't normally they can get to one or two drops, but again, they're they're paying a cost for that sometimes um But um Yeah, okay. Yeah, so but but that's not the world we live in now. And so like the new book. That's what we're saying. Yeah Great. Okay. Cool. We wandered far afield there, but that's all right. Yeah We should also just very quickly say that if you're going to run nergal in the actual s2d Allegiance, we should just take a quick moment to refresh everybody on the actual aura of nergal itself Which is also quite good, right? Yeah, so these auras broadcast off your heroes, right? That's how these things work in Uh in in s2d in slaves to darkness armies So aura of nergal if the unmodified wound roll for an attack made with a melee weapon By a friendly slaves to darkness drogo unit wholly within 12 of any friendly models. This ability is a six You add one to the damage inflicted in addition if this model is a general You subtract one from hit rolls for attacks made with missile weapons The target friendly models in that aura in that 12 inch aura. So solid, right? Yeah, um, you know potential plus one damage spikes always real good And of course, you know neg one to be hits Especially as we just did talk about how there's a lot of shooting suddenly coming into the meta also quite strong But the thing about it is interesting to me is I don't think that's so good That I feel like I'm missing it if I go nergal allegiance Say that again. I don't feel that that's so good I miss it if I'm going nergal allegiance and by the way the plague touched can be run in either nergal or s2d We should say that like you can choose either The reason I make that statement tom is because I do like some of what nergal has. I'm not sure I don't like the trees better in some armies than whatever that's giving me Okay. Yeah, now. I know you could still get a tree in s2d by You could by allying in the snail rider or whatever and other things like that But like I think trees are one of the most powerful things that nergal does like planting trees to slingshot your units is crazy good Yep um So and there's also an interesting flip here where like When you go nergal allegiance all the slaves to darkness stuff just fits into your army and it's and it's in faction Right, it's not an ally But if you go slaves to darkness The nergal stuff is an ally. It's not in faction, right? Because it doesn't have the slaves to darkness keyword That is to say I mean things like Uh, like blikings or you know, whatever pick pick whatever thing you want out of the nergal book, right? So it's not they don't have a complete back and forth interchange, which is interesting, right? Right? So you just have more freedom when you're in pure nergal allegiance, right? Yeah, I mean what I would say is this like I hear that Um, you lose some of your battle line by doing that like some potentially important battle line um Like knights um, like especially if you're running wanting to run that Um, I like the spells in nergal legions better. Well, no. No, let me say that I I like both sets of spells. They just do different things. Yeah. Yeah, I was gonna say I mean like S2ds some really good spells. They're short range. It can be tricky to use in certain situations But they are good. They're tougher to cast but then that's not That same thing could be said for nergal stuff too. So whatever. Yeah I mean the blades of putrefaction require A seven natural seven and you can't get around that. It's a lot of the same. It's a lot of the same stuff Yeah, right. Right. But I mean, you know, your marauders and your warriors are still around They're still battle line all the time like and guess what marauders are pretty good nergal marauders are Real good, you know, like Like yeah, the nergal marauders really good, especially with blades of putrefaction putrefaction, right? It's just Um, the the reroll sixes to wound is actually counterintuitive for the battalion. That's on the nergal wheel Yeah, so that that's something to kind of come to terms with um But uh having glotkin uh on like horses like knights is kind of good because you're doubling your profile So the plus one attacks is actually uh, super effective. Um So, yeah, I mean, I what I would say is this I think that they balance the incentive structure around nergal very well Super well between slaves to darkness and nergal legions Like there are real decisions to be made. They're meaningful and there's good options on both sides Yeah, so let's talk about a couple of the people that I that to me for my money Make sense in if you're talking like nergal army The stuff that just really starts looking super good in a nergal army to bring in from s2d because this is all stuff that could buff Right, what's what's going on there? And boy, there is a lot of fun. They have They have buffing units in that army. Yeah, I understand. I get the joke, tom.  There's lots we could discuss here to bring in what what's one you think has value in a in a nergal force So my my favorite and it just is kind of like with the theme of nergal in my head of just never going away is just huge bricks of chaos warriors in a nergal list with the lord of affliction and They just would they don't go anywhere and you mean do you mean a harbinger of decay? Both both options the minus two to hit Um from the affliction. Oh, yeah, and then the lord of lights. You're thinking about like lord of lights Lord of lights. Yeah, so the minus to hit from that and then the uh, is it it's a five up save from the Yeah, five up after a harbinger. Yeah, so it's like those two things with the unit of 20 chaos warriors And that unit will never go anywhere It's so it makes them so tough because they're naturally re-rolling all their saves, right just because that's a thing chaos warriors do Uh, they're they have the the lord of lights can put the negative to hit on that negative to be hit. Obviously not He's not putting a penalty on them So they have you know, it's much less successful hits are coming in Right, and then if the harbingers around either one of those and giving them a five up after save I mean they just get rock hard Right, like that's not to mention the fact that even against stuff just like, uh mortal wounds in that scenario Yeah, they've got an extra five up. So they end up going like five up five up even against. Yeah, they do Yeah, um, which is just you they shake off so much of that damage at that point I wonder if a slaves to darkness nervel List that's like 600 or that's like 1200 points of warriors is the answer to Um like into spoilers wherever all the heroes can hide in a line of sight cutting train. I wonder if that's the answer to zinch Like that like Yeah, it's minus three to hit inch or minus four to hit for shooting. Isn't it? No, uh, so it would be So if they're in the nervel aura in slaves to darkness, it would be minus. Oh nervel. Okay So the so they would project a aura and then the uh, and then the lord of blights would give them An additional minus two to be hit which would be minus three and then all of your hero Could hide in the despoiler drain and cut off line of sight 100% sure Uh Like one thing that was said and it's worth pointing out is that like, you know Somebody had said that's two command points a turn if you're doing both of those neither those bubbles are huge Yeah, sure. I agree with that of course and like nervels It's command points three command points. Well, it's well against the d3 to start sure So you'd have to your if that's if you're allying he we're we were talking about putting it in nervel allegiance not in S2d allegiance, but anyways, that's not the right answer. The answer is sure that's challenging I don't think you actually need both of those to get really hard warrior blocks There comes to be a point of gilding the lily like Those a big block with just one of those dude supporting and one of those command points becomes very very sticky, right? um So, yeah No, I think that's a hot choice. I mean, I I think warriors are tough They they're also great by the way to sit there in like a plague touched Warband because they can just take punishment for a long time and they can they can withstand all those wounds that are coming in Right because what you ostensibly want in plague touch is somebody who can sit there and be wounded a lot successfully Since it's happening on the six to wound and then not die Right, right. So they're shaking off the armor And they're like, you know, and and they're just still sticking around Um So, yeah, no, I agree. I think that's a hot one. All right, uh, tom What what what's your pick for a for a good solid s2d unit that can buff up nergal?  So so walk us through what this thing does or I can do it If you don't have the rules right in front of you. No, I do. I haven't memorized. It's fine. All right, so Uh, so the uh, so he has an order that he projects of like a six plus plus save for all Slaves of darkness mortal units within 18 inches With that'll decrease as the as he loses models or as he takes damage. Sorry And then he'll be able to say a prayer once per game And or once per game once per turn, sorry, again, I've been reading that kao look and everything's once per game You're fine. Um, uh, so once per turn turn in your hero phase, you'll be able to say a prayer and Uh, the nergal prayer particularly is useful. It gives plus one to save which is like a really hard Like benny to get in the in the world right now um so, uh Plus one uh to save and reroll all wounds Uh, yes, which is um, what am I looking for here real good? Real Something that can actually drop a plus one to save and yes, it's on a three up. So like it can fail It's not it's not like those prayers can fail to be very clear. But my god, that's such a good bonus, right? Um, I mean all I can say is thank god They've never just taken a sub faction and handed out plus one to save to every unit in the sub faction because if they did that It would just be it'd be it'd be an insane thing for them to do, but we don't live in that world So no worries. Um But no the war shrines great Also because it's not using a resource like it's not relying on a command point It's not doing any of those things, right? Right now. It does have to target mortal slaves to darkness units You know this stuff does right so um again, but it's a great thing to target You know cast warriors or marauders you bought in brought in or whatever, right? You can actually make you can manufacture like really really tanky giant blocks of cheap marauders with this That also hit really hard Uh and and get in and do the work so Um So there's just you know, there's good stuff there Um, and somebody mentioned you're really talking s2d keyworded nergal not a natural mortal nergal army of robbringers Which need help. Well, I'm talking in nergal allegiance But yes, I wanted to start by talking about this new stuff that could be brought in that just got on the table We're gonna we're don't worry. We're gonna we're gonna get to the nergal boys themselves Well, the old nergal boys better start Growing wings or flapping their arms real hard. Anyway, uh, yes Uh cast sorcerer lord Gotta talk about this guy cheap option. There's a lot of work 110 points, right? Yep The irracular visions he can be nergal marked obviously so he slides right in there. He's a wizard Great cool. He can you know get spells out of out of nergal's lore Um the fact that he can just look at somebody and grant them re-roll saves Um, fantastic for uh, again, like many of the things we've talked about for having sort of tanky things Fantastic if you're trying to build tanky marauder blocks, whatever whatever Of course, he also has demonic power like a spell that is just straight fire again Only targets mortal saves the darkness But uh, it's got a big old range because it's holy within 18 inches And you can re-roll all hit and wound rolls For that unit like that is a really cheap way to get re-rolling all hits and wounds So again awesome on something like say marauders or on knights or something like that, you know, yeah Yeah, yeah, like I I dig the heck out of the cast sword lord that guy is just a he is a Value at 110 points and a great dude to just show up in the army Like in my mind one of the things so just a touch on the on like the rock bringer side and stuff like that I think one of the interesting things you can do now is Introduce you can have like your normal rock bringer pair like you could if you like having a bunch of flies You know big flying the air force if you like having a bunch of blight kings Those things are very usable now on the new because of those rules got fixed And then you can also supplement them with like cheap bodies and a good power pair in my mind that you bring in Is like a 40 block of marauders and a sword lord who's along with them, right? And so that gives you like that's not a huge number of points It's 410 points on that power pair, right?  Yep. So, um, the fact that you can then have them spring running and charging off of trees Right and stuff like that Means they just get there All right, these guys like yep, they can get the plus two move off the wheel And then they can run and then they can charge and like Their movement they will just shoot across the board like Insane movement you can generate in their marauder when the wheels in the or on marauders When the wheels in the right place, right? Because very easily they can be at an eight inch base off the wheel 14 inches after the run And then they can basically nail with almost no issue a nine inch charge Like they have a 90 plus percent chance to nail a nine inch charge Meaning that without batting an eyelash, they've covered 23 inches And another simple three inches from a great unclean one with a bell Oh, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Sorry 24 because they do have built-in plus one to run on their scroll I forgot 24 25 because the one is also in charge. So, yeah, like shooting marauders 25 28 29 inches across the board like Boa and then again showing up with as you just mentioned blades of putrefaction, which You know, they're triggering on a five because they have a built-in plus one to hit Or and by the way showing up and re-rolling all hits and wounds. So they're just They're putrefaction fishing With with that demonic power on them, right? Yeah. Yeah So like to me it's a really strong power pair Like that is a wrecking ball. You can just Throw at your army at the enemy army wherever you need to break an egg, right? If there's a nut you've got a crack here's foreign points. You can basically just toss at them And we'll go it and be pretty tough Right like with just those two things They can be pretty tough and do a heck of a lot of damage Yeah, like it's so fascinating Like so I just like sitting here, you know, obviously like thinking about the zinge thing You've got to let this go I'm thinking about right now. This is stop letting the changer of ways infect your mind No, I'm just thinking about how you stop zinge with nergal and actually like Uh, like thinking about an std to spoilers list like you could easily put together Like so just drop out the italian And you could have a demon prince a chaos war shrine a chaos sorcerer lord a chaos lord on foot, right?  Yeah, like there's a lot of potential and nergal in this new world We are entering. Yeah, sure No, I agree and like that's what i'm saying like I that's I actually it's another reason I really Like the army in either In either allegiance, right? There's there's really good interesting counterplay In both allegiances because like the other world we're living in like, yeah, I know you're talking about that But look the other world we're living in is there's a fair amount of high armor potentially floating around, right? right, right and Uh, a bunch of like rend one slash triggering blades of future faction, you know, uh models Right on a five up will crack heavy armor decently. Well, right. Yes, it will Uh, depending on what you're going into so but yeah, like I think that's good So let's talk about let's talk about our, you know, obviously the big FAQ change gave us One the battalions all got cheaper So it got cheaper to run all your nerdo stuff in a battalion And two obviously we got the fixed as we mentioned two Blight kings plus coil blight lords, you know, et cetera, right? Yep.  Bryce, what do you think what's what's your opinion? I Think that they're viable Very much so I don't know that they're it doesn't take them to the top tables automatically or anything like that but like if you roll hot dice I used to play blight kings all the time and you'd roll hot dice and then You'd get some through and then you wouldn't have any rend But now you can if you take the battalion and have the blight cyst and have the You can't modify the sixes and you're roll hot you can Beat a lot of people like I really really love blight king. So I'm kind of biased but I I really think that They were almost unplayable before right like you couldn't you couldn't justify having them because minus one hit is everywhere and now that doesn't really matter so you You're fishing for sixes no matter what and it feels good to not be sad the whole game Well, not not only that it's been said like high armor is like a real thing now Like it is going to be it is moving to the into the new world In a hotness that it is that we have not seen right? Like that's like with obr and all that and like you know what nergal does really well cracks armor Sure, because it's spreading around mortar wounds, but not like your traditional This is a place where like oftentimes blight kings even in a blight. No, well can have you can have You can have blight kings on neg three rend Sure, like that is that is a perfectly valid very real world we're in in the battalion with the hero nearby giving them rust The and then rust fang in the spell. Yeah, and there's a spell that cracks armor Offestuses spell, you know, put stick them on a bail win I mean the reality is it's like they had these armor cracking tools, but against things like dock That that doesn't do anything. It was worthless. Yeah, and so like now it like it's actually like it's gonna matter again No, you went to where I was going to go Which is which is what I was gonna say like I think in my mind You have to be intentional about your power pairs or power triplets, right? Like I think blight kings on their own So big advantages are the same advantages they've always had. They are a lot of meat, right? Like when you look at the sort of You know wound to point ratio Yeah, it is and always has been rather high right, um Like the you're getting a good deal. Yeah, I mean, you know regular blight kings are 160 for for five right and And battle line and battle line. Yeah, exactly. And that's 21 wounds. Yeah, because the leader has an extra wound So, you know, I mean that's quite a lot of wound like just just Pounds of wounds for per point, right? Like like pound per point That's quite a lot But I do think you have to have those tools like you you've got they're better than pigs now Yeah, sure sure Um, at least in just like raw wounds, but not I don't know the utility, but that's fine Like in raw wounds like in raw wounds. It's a better deal than pigs. Sure. Sure. Sure. Um, I mean, it's no, uh It's no it's no pink horse of zinch, but sure. Um, the Oh, you're sure. We'll get there. We'll get there. We'll get there buddy. No, um But like so I think that's good, but you're right. I do think you have to be intentional about it, right and that is to say, uh They have to have those extra tools and like when you look at the commitment around the battalion It's still a pretty heavy commitment. It's not ridiculous But it's like it's a chunk of your army, you know So but it but it's what I'd be running anyways Yeah, sure. You're saying because that would be your battle line, right? Right like like or not none of that like there's not really units in there that I don't like Like when I look like the the the unit that I like the least is the lord of blights Like the one required hero in there and what that means when I see him on there Is that I'm probably going to take a unit of marauders The parent with the power Right because all of a sudden he can actually do a lot more interesting things if there's a unit of marauders running around Right, right because he can actually move the marauders to a really interesting You know defense right because the traditional problem with the lord of blights Right and just to refresh everybody because we've mentioned him several times So I'm just going to go ahead and read his command ability out so that like so everybody's on the page here So his command ability is plague of lies if you do so pick a friendly nergal unit So again any any of your existing stuff or obviously all of the S2D stuff will qualify Within 21 inches of it until your next hero phase Subtract one from the hit rolls of attacks that target that unit in the shooting phase There is a lot of shooting. We've just talked about coming into the meta so on its own decent But the problem was It the black inks could generally never take advantage of the next component Which is if the unit contains 20 or more models Subtract two from the hit rolls of attacks that target that unit in the shooting phase And one from the hit rolls of attacks that target that unit in the combat phase instead So the in my mind when you suddenly have the Marauders who can just like and that's just a within buff. It's not a holy within buff So he could like just Huge be slow He can be slow and just like touch the back corner of one of those 40 marauders And give them that bonus and still be out doing whatever he needs to do right whole sitting a point He can be sitting a point in the backfield Yeah, right and so buffing. Yeah Yeah, and so I think that that has a lot of I think to me the blightest is Back on the menu as an interesting option to go not just because of its change The traditional problem it had Was not just that of course it had the neg ones, but you also had like a body problem Yep And this ability to suddenly bring in this new horde of really interesting bodies A very helpful marauders like they're really good and they're punchy They're like they work really well They work really well with your uh, your blades of future faction spell, right? Yep Like there's real gas here folks Yeah, like I don't know if you're hearing that like because your average Probably what a thousand points if you build it out to have like uh pretty decent sized Units of blikings like not overwhelming like obviously you could build it larger, but I think it's around a thousand, right? Yeah more like that. Yep. So then like 80 for two tens and the five Yeah, it feels fine. Sure Um, so, you know, you can be somewhere and let's let's just call it the tilde thousand ish point range And then you've got the power pair of the marauders and the sorg and now you're 1500 Your other 500 is kind of like, you know suit to taste here, right?  Yeah.  Oh lord of afflictions. Yeah, i'm sorry lord of afflictions It's gonna be a mobile. So that's your uh, puscoiled light lord's hero. Yeah Um, and he's going so he's like a more mobile hero that has a decent number of wounds and an aftersave and all that stuff um, but the important thing about him is that He's gonna broadcast a re-roll ones to hit buff because nergal has buffs in it Um a re-roll ones to hit buff to the blight kings. So putting on threes re-roll ones And he can carry rust fang for you and he's mobile enough that he can actually go put that neg one to hit neg one to save buff On an enemy unit. Sure So to help crack armor for those blight kings and he's only like 200 points Yeah, I don't know. There's probably an interesting world with just like I don't know I've I've always been a fan of a big 30 block of plague bearers Just because people really hate attacking them.  It just disincentivizes people from actually shooting into them In a big way, which is tends to be how you actually get rid of those backfield units Like yeah, you have to like commit to going into them and most people aren't going to when you're running into them with like three power centers of you know, two blight cave two big blight king blocks and a and a You know two big groups of blight kings and a unit of 40 marauders, right? Like that's you've already gotten their attention Like they don't have time to dedicate a bunch of resources to peel your backfield unit off Right, but that's still like a lot of points that you put into that. It's 320. Yeah, it's not nothing. It's not nothing I I agree right. I'm just I'm kind of like I'm I'm Pointing out a few different options here. I think it's a really like under the new objective rules, too Some scenarios have things where you could slit them and take both of take be holding two objectives at one unit, right? Yeah, yeah, like because the the the models are what claim the objective not the unit, right? So a singular model can't hold more than one objective, but You know different models in a singular unit can And like who cares they don't care that they're spread out like it's they still have the same Still have the same penalties to die, you know So like there are quite a few scenarios where you end up with two things in your backfield that they could sit on So pretty decent Uh, yeah, I mean, I think that's good. Let's let's Let's have a little talk about the puscoil blightlords themselves Okay Are they any good I'm in now. All right. Tell me why you're in for the puscoil blightlords because I I find these dudes I Like I want to love puscoil blightlords so much, but let Bryce go. All right, Bryce. Tell us why you're in for these dudes I just I just can't get over. I think I forget exactly but I think it's 27 inches of movement that you can get with the command ability and the battalion and Yeah, I mean they can Yeah, and like They they can just You hold them back on turn one and then when your opponent moves forward if they leave anything open to you that is Softer you just jump right over the top and you eliminate anything in the back that they didn't want you to get to And they're they're just gonna sit there and they're gonna they do damage now Which is great and they went down. What did they go on 20 points with the handbook this year or Yeah, they're 200. Yeah, they're 200 even now.  Uh, I have your build by the way. All right, I'm interested Uh, sorry like I just like Count out the math So the answer is to do a blight cyst This is what I would do at least so blight cyst with, uh 10 blight kings 10 blight kings five blight kings A lord of blights and you can include both a sorcerer and a harbinger of decay in the battalion Okay Okay So I include those and then I add festus lord of afflictions And with the rust blade and 40 more marauders um For the harbinger lord, do you? I don't like the crappy nergal sorcerer Right, right because the crappy nergal sorcerer is going to have the uh is going to have the, uh Blades of future faction spell and festus is going to have the armor He cannot he has to have the rotbringer keyword not the more. Oh, you're right. That is a rotbringer keyword It's fell. I forgot to have their spell words and just like the demonic power for him only works on the marauders The reroll hits and wins. Yeah, I know that. Yeah, yeah I was thinking I forgot that that spell list was keyed the one that blades is on was rotbringer keyed Yeah, you're right and then you uh, and then you give the armor cracking rust fang to the lord of afflictions and then you give the uh, the wither stave Um reroll all hit sixes to hit because remember that's a thing Like that's one of their 12 inch bobble. You give that to the harbinger of decay Okay, and you and and and then 40 marauders to round it out. Um, you're at 2000 exactly. Nice Yeah, that's a decent ish build. I like that But but I want to stick on these and it's four drop. Yeah, sure Uh, yeah, I do that's I don't I don't hate that What let me tell you what like so brice. I want to go back to these pluscoyle blight lords Yes, because I'm like first of all, they're like they are super cool models.  So you're definitely not getting the same ratio out of it. You're getting versus blight kings But as you mentioned, especially if the lord of afflictions is showing up here, you do have incredible mobility right Because you've got an eight inch space fly the ability to pump it up another eight inches They can run in charge if they swing near a tree, right? So all that stuff's a thing They are base four up saves of seven wounds And they do have the five up after safe because they they've got demon They inherit basically like that that demonic disgusting resilience, right? yep, um so I'm trying to think if they're like I am a big fan of like heavy mobile Sort of anvils right things that can be tough and be quick Are really are always really interesting units to me Right, right like pigs like pigs. Yeah, exactly like I I built a tournament season on the back of the belief that pigs are really good, right? and uh And was largely proven right because the ability to just like shoot across the board and just swap somebody with a bunch of relatively tough wounds Is is useful my challenge here is 400 points, which is I think what you'd need right because you need four of these guys to be a really tough anvil That's 28 wounds on a four up five up like that's that's decent. That's gonna get you there and they can do damage like don't get me wrong Is that too much for a big mobile anvil? I think in in this army. I think it's the your best option For for a mobile. I mean a a mobile get literally anywhere you want, right? That's like you can run marauders, but you can't fly over something with right so I think I think the flying ability is huge for them because it it It really makes you as an opponent decide like I have to make sure that this side 28 28 And it's uh, they're four up five up four up five up. Yep natively just this is I'm just talking straight scroll Right, like no no considering buffs from any other unit showing up here, right? Like obviously there could be other things that that you put on them But yeah, and you always have the wheel buff to like right manipulate that to whatever you want So if you need the movement you need the reroll say or six is whatever it is you can kind of control that and I just I just love that aspect of it. It's like eels, right? You have to always know That you're running out them jumping over you because They can do that and there's not there's not a lot of flying anvils that really can play that role and I feel like They're not only going to be able to do that, but they also You really have to commit something to take them off the board. Yeah Well, it's like to put things in perspective Like ignoring the rerollable save that cast warriors get like you're putting the same effective number of wounds on a smaller base As like as like 15 cast warriors or something like 20s 20 cast warriors Because cast warriors don't have the after like their aftersave is mortal wounds only So they're 40 wounds. These guys are 37 effective wounds Oh with the five up you're saying yeah, yeah Yeah, so like there are four up save and then a five up after save that that calculates out to about 37 effective wounds where the like a block of 20 cast warriors Is 40 wounds. Yeah, sure. They have a rerollable save granted, but the point being that like Most people haven't played with them having rerollable saves, right? So just think about the toughness of a 20 block of chaos warriors Yeah, sure, and you can put that to hold something wherever you want. That's gonna hold That's gonna hold. Yeah. Yeah. I mean it does take again This is one of those things that like it takes a concerted effort to kill these guys out Right now, certainly they're safe.  Well, sure. You can stop.  I still think actually in a matchup like that I think they're actually way more valuable Because more tech thrive on stuff that they can outmaneuver And just kind of press you behind this wall of encroaching steel Of just like bludgeoning steel as they march forward and oftentimes there's things around the back They don't want you to get to And those are like things that you can put into that and that will really kill things Yeah, sure And if you can just jump these guys over the line by just There goes 25 27 inches of flying movement as they just shoot out See you later And they're just way behind the lines you make the person make this huge decision I think it's actually quite valuable and they're back. They're doing damage like they're again, they're not You know, they're not weak They they do they do have decent damage. Let's rate them decent. Is that a fair that a fair approximation Because that unit of four is making like 12 exploding blight king style attacks two Dolores toxin attacks that are reneg to two damage uh eight foul mouth fart attacks Which is by the way like the best name for an attack ever the foul mouth parts and Four venomous stings, which are all bag one runs d3 damage. I mean, you know, yeah, this is decent Like they're gonna kill some stuff um Like it makes me wonder if like there's not a list in here with glock can To buff them up with plus one attacks to their profile I just like he's too expensive when this is already here like I know I like yes that plus one attack is a super good ability It's not worth it on the glockin body If you told me there was a way to get it on a dude that was you know 100 points I'd be like, yeah, great. Cool. So sign me up. Where are we at? I do think glockin though with marauders It is is an interesting thing because you give them the minus to hit and an extra wound So you have two wound marauders Yeah minus two to hit or whatever it ends up being At that's 80 wounds worth of marauders you got to deal with it is but I just don't rate him His the spell is so swingy right like he can drop it so easy It's not an easy cast and I've I've seen you know one of my one of my regular players in my in my group You know regularly runs nergal and likes to use his glockin just because he has a glockin and I don't fault him for that Who wouldn't it is a fun, you know cool sweet-looking model. So okay fine So like I've had probably more chances to play against the glockin than most people in the world Just because he's used it a lot like I I've played 15 20 games with where glockin's on the table with me. Yeah, and uh, he just never impresses me like He just always seems to underpunch his weight I look at him and go if you just wanted a big fat boy like the buffy castie Great unclean one would probably have served you better. You know because he would have been actually acting like a huge force multiplier So, um, it is worth noting See just I want to confirm this real quick Uh, that the puscoils do actually take the bonus to attack from the great From the great unclean one. So if you wanted that plus one to attack profile, you can actually get that from him and the movement buff Yeah So you got 30 inches of movement Sure, which again like I think that's why puscoils are actually like I would love I It's not a list. I'm ever going to experiment with obviously seeing it on the table But I think there is gas in that engine Ultimately, I think here's my here's where I sort of come to I'm not trying to rush us or get to a summation statement But I think what I come to is nergal had a lot of good tools in these elite body Forces that they had but they lacked Some elements like namely being able to like put out horde a horde of bodies you know being able to To get those kinds of elements and I think the s2d elements bring that in that's what I'll say okay, um There might be something there you know, I mean I will also state that one of the other things you could do Okay, if when you have a huge movement advantage Is obviously like if you are shooting around the board a lot of the things we've talked about Is how fast nergal can be? You know, you do have like an endless spell you can bring in on one of your nergal casters because they are slaves to darkness, right? Yeah, and it has it basically has movement You could also bring in the old dark fire demon rift which uh, I played with the dark fire demon rift this weekend and Let me tell you right now That thing is bonkers That spell is so good. Um, I I Shutter to think of what that spell is going to do in a zeege army When there's that number of casters around I generally was keeping the demon rift in range of like two casters and I was playing cabalas So I was able to push it around some with the ritual and it was just like murdering The enemy army because it was just sailing back and forth over characters doing d3 plus two mortal wounds And characters were just dropping dead Like five and six twin heroes were just dropping dead and in an army like nergal that can already have some options to splash around mortal wounds Yeah Uh, you know bringing in like a sword lord or some caster who can just pop that thing out and let it go nuts Um, there's gonna be plenty of enemy casters running around in the meta And it's not like nergal short on casters either by the by Like, you know that list you just mentioned had had had a fine few in it. You know what I mean? Yeah, yeah And even like as I said, it's easy to look at that spell and go. Oh, I need six casters to make this really do something No, you don't You know d3 plus two is really good to when you're hitting four different units with it Because that thing's got a 12 inch fly Right. Yeah, and then hits everything it lands within an inch of so it's it's quite a big Footprint of effect on that demon rift and you know what nerles normally not having to deal with Mortal wounds. Yeah, sure. Absolutely. And I mean you're if it does ever get pointed back into your line somehow You're much more resilient to it than your enemy is right Yeah So no, I think that's interesting. All right Uh, what else? So we've talked robbringers. We talked about the blightlords. I think they do have gas as a as a mobile anvil Um, is there anything else in nergal that we haven't touched on yet? That we feel would would synergize particularly well or has some interesting things or that we would want to revisit I mean, obviously obviously slobby bio piper. I mean, of course, we all know but beyond that I I we revisit the low tan of nergal before he was low tan before it was cool the slobby bio piper poor guy, uh, like I like I weep for like the Like the magus kins like, you know, those are still got like those are doomed. I love those guys too that I love those guys and like they've never seen an aos table like Outside of like the event where we didn't have to pay points for them. Sure Sure, that was a pretty good deal. Yeah Yeah, that was a pretty good deal But like I just it makes me sad that they like they've never Like blowout or bed ex and or gots demons few these three guys. Yeah Yeah, like I used to love morbid X. I played him all the time when he could bring the nerglings on for free Yeah, I had my first army that that rule was there and I played him all the time but yeah, those I I think it's one of just kind of the effect of like They don't really fit the narrative of right now. So they're kind they've kind of been left out And you know kind of want to leave that behind I it feels like sometimes but Well, the irony is that they were in like the books with the hallowed knights and stuff like that Yeah, that's true So like they're in the narrative. They're just not good Like and it makes me sad because like I have blowout painted Yeah, um, and I love I love my blowout. Um So that like they're they're they are a unit I lament. Let me say that Like it makes me sad that they've gone the way of the dodo sure Yeah, I tend to agree. Um I think they're all underwhelming for their points that the the issue isn't really in their scroll It's not that like it's not that some of them you can't look at and go. Yeah, okay. That's decent ish It's that like they have the classic ultra elite but not a game winner monster problem, right of like They don't they're there. They're in that mid-range monster problem They're a mid-range hero with one one wizard cast.  Yeah Um, yeah, all right, uh, so let's let's end let's end this with a little ring a ding ding Let's predict a thing. We know chaos is getting a little kick in the upcoming wrath of the ever chosen So gentlemen Let's go round the horn here and each of us will make one prediction Let's take our guests. What is nergal getting In the upcoming wrath of the ever chosen All right Bryce, you're the guest so you get the curse to go first. What do you got? Swing for the fences my friend I think that nergal will get It's a Nurgling centric battalion. Oh man. Oh wow, okay That would be a big centric battalion Everyone is Morbidex in there You know, I would like to say yes, but I'm gonna say no he's not in there because of everything we just talked about but it's gonna be Something there's gotta be a hero obviously and maybe it's slapety bio piper and But nergalings. I want to see nergalings on the table in every nergal game I play Or a bold call you've just made But I love it That's now that is the kind of swinging for the fences we like to see here on warhammer week Sorry, my dog has chewed up a toy and pulled this out of it This is like this pipe in a dog toy that she was playing on it was the squeaker at any rate Uh, Tom Indeed. Yeah, she was ready to she's ready to get the toots on the pipe Absolutely. All right. Go ahead. Um, I'm gonna say that we are going to see a build of Uh, some type of army build of So it's so these are like legions of of archion that are under his command right theoretically Okay, I'm gonna say that we're gonna get like the legion of the fly or something like that. Okay And it will be a Uh Legion slaves to darkness legion that you can include rot bringers in In a one to four ratio Okay, where they actually stay they retain the full slaves to darkness legions get to benefit from all the slaves to darkness stuff Right Yeah, I don't know if they will gain the std keyword Um, but they will gain like the legion of the fly keyword or whatever the new faction is called of the slaves to darkness, right? Um, and it's kind of like this like so this will be a thing like the spoilers or a thing like You know, whatever of slaves to darkness that will also add Like that'll be aimed at nervel faction like a nervel legion. Okay All right, cool All right, so here's my prediction We're going to get a sileski's host style Set up but for rodigus Okay, where it'll be like where it'll be like his named personal battalion And this stuff and like the rules around him for so like the host of rodigus or whatever, right? Yeah, um the the plague of rodigus. No, it's the folds of rodigus. Oh, sure. Yeah. Yeah We're like, you know, obviously it's it the rules to it are like you have to include rodigus And he has to be your general and you know, you get a bunch of benefits from having him in there because You know, it's it's going to be him calling up his best and brightest And so just like the sileski host was like a reason to have this spotlight on this really cool Uh You know demon prince of slanesh This would be a good way they would do the same thing with nergal with one of their really cool characters And so do it with rodigus Um, I could also see him do it with the the I would have also said the snail guy But they've already done snail guy exploration in the past. So yeah, so rodigus Uh, there you go. That's my prediction, but we'll know in a few weeks So there you go, brice. Hey, thanks, man. It was good to have you on buddy Absolutely. Can I do can I do one quick shout out who should have been there for the week from the beginning? uh, so so mr. Mike butcher Uh, I missed the nergal episode not to mention him. Uh, he's also been very, uh Revigorated by this change and uh puscoil blightlords is his current project and what he's nice to do for pakka and he I'm sure he won't care. He's converted them all and extended the legs So they're like three or four inches taller with super long draping legs and he's doing both battalions so the the blightlords and uh Blight kings battalion for his list. Oh nice So Yeah, my good friend mike butcher at mike butcher 13. Check him out. He is Like pop a nergal to us all I think it is his army is gorgeous. Obviously that he already had he already Obviously for for those who aren't familiar who haven't been to like a holy event. Let me tell you what I'll I'll include his twitter down there as well because yes Uh, just absolutely wonderfully beautiful nergal army. So Uh, and and don't get me wrong despite my eternal hatred of all things nergal I respect a good artist when they work, you know what I mean? And that's that's a great pick. Good shout out All right. Well for all of you out there. Thank you very much for watching We hope you enjoyed the show this week. Uh, like I said next week. We'll be back We'll be doing ko if you're watching hit that like button that helps other people find the show and know about it So please give it a like Uh, subscribe all that kind of stuff you haven't already but as always we very very much appreciate you watching And as always we'll see you next wednesday. Bye. Bye


Marcus, in what ways do you feel like this first team offense progressed today? I thought we were efficient, you know, made some plays, got some points on the board. We can always be better though. And I think that's what's great about preseason is it allows you to get into these real game situations and find where you can improve it. When it comes to the, you know, the overall week, the work week, you know, two joint practices in this preseason game, in what ways do you feel like this whole entire week kind of belt in terms of like the competition between these two organizations? Yeah, it was great. I think, especially during this time in the training camp, it's great to get different looks. Go against the defense that maybe you're not seeing every single week. And I think all in all, I thought for both sides it was just great work. And I think, you know, looking back on it, it's going to help us for the season. Take me through that touchdown to Z. It seems like a great alley, great window of throw in the slant back in the end zone. Yeah, I think it just started up front. The guys did a great job of giving me some time. And OZ, you know, he's always at the right place at the right time. And when you were able to do that, you can trust where you can put the ball and he came down with it and executed the play well. Yeah, absolutely. You know, there's things that we definitely have to clean up on. You know, red zone penalties for sure. But at the same time though, I think all in all through this entire kind of training camp, I like where we're going and I like where we're headed. A couple of the tight ends a little bit. Can you kind of walk me through the Kyle Pitts play and then also hitting Anthony for like 40 yards?  Yeah, again, I think our guys did a great job of executing the play. Had time to see the field and it just kind of happens. I think when you have guys that are explosive like Kyle and Ferk, they're going to find ways to get open. And with the time that we had in the pocket, it just really allowed those guys to get down the field. You know, I think just at the end of it, the last drive, being able to complete some of those passes, get a first down and continue to get the momentum going. You know, it's great that we got points early on. And I think as we progress as an offense, just continue to have the gas puddle down. And, you know, just finding ways to continue to score, continue to just kind of onslaught. And as we go forward, we'll learn from it.  But all in all, I thought it was a good day. For sure. For sure. And I look forward to these joint practices again. You know, when you're competitive in practice, it just really makes those game situations a lot more realistic. And, you know, it just really helps us prepare for the season.