Today we're gonna talk about three beautiful signs a man wants to be committed to you. So let's dive into this for a second. I want you to know that there are really good men out there. I know it can seem frustrating. We're swimming in a sea of emotional dysfunctionality and it can be very disheartening to believe that there's a good man out there. And let me just tell you, there are a lot of good men out there. In fact, I want you to begin singing the song. It's raining good men. It's raining good men. It's raining good men. Why? Because if you have this in your consciousness that there are good men out there, you're more apt to see the type of man that I'm about to talk about. You know, it's interesting in the male dating world they believe there are no good women out there. That's right. I belong to a number of forums where men talk about dating in relationships and in that they believe that women are the self-centric beings out there, not the men. It just goes to show you how it's kind of like this. People just point the finger at the other way. Instead of, well, it's like, okay, they're pointing the finger, but they're not looking at the three fingers pointing back at them. And this is why I'm such a big advocate for human beings to do personal development, self-help and spiritual work to heal childhood wounds and traumas and adult traumas. The ones that cause negative patterns and limiting beliefs in their life that makes them repel a juicy, delicious, healthy, happy relationship. Now, I know some people get offended when I say juicy, delicious, healthy, happy relationship, but do you see the smile? Do you see the radiance when I say that? Isn't that what we all want to experience? Something like when you bite into a piece of fruit that you just love. It's a great, I love watermelon. Does anyone else like watermelon? I love fresh, sweet, juicy, delicious watermelon. And to some degree, I want the emotional effects of a relationship to feel that way.  It is, there's going to be good times and there's also gonna be some tough times. See a juicy, delicious, healthy, happy relationship can navigate the tough times. They can navigate the storms because they have the emotional maturity and the relationship skills to weather these storms. Now, the sad thing is most of us haven't been educated on how to effectively communicate with one another. This is why dating feels so self-centric. This is why dating can be so hyper-focused on romance because it's easy in the early stages to get amped up on lust and limerence. And if you're not familiar with what the word limerence means, Google it, L-I-M-E-R-N-C-E. Did I spell that properly? Oh, by the way, spelling was like my worst subject in school, amongst other things. Limerence means extreme infatuation. So what happens is when we resonate with another person, we might miss the signs that they genuinely genuinely want to explore a deeper relationship with us because many people are hyper-focused on the romance and attraction elements of the dating process instead of what I'm about to share that goes into a deeper narrative that I all invite you to examine. Excuse me, my coffee's really hot. My coffee mug says I don't want to work anymore. I just want to be cherished, put up on a pedestal and taken care of. This was a gift from a friend of mine. I kind of wonder if it's a little narcissistic, but I just like this. I love this style of mug. It's called the That's All mug. You can find them on Amazon. Okay, so coming back to this, and I'm gonna share these three beautiful signs in a moment. Man are pointing the finger at women or pointing the finger at men. Let's just stop pointing finger and look inward. And more importantly, I invite you all, your job is not to impress a man. Your job is not to, and vice versa, it's not his job to impress you. Ideally, two people show up as sovereign human beings and see if they're a fit for one another, see if they actually are compatible with one another. When we hyper-focused on lust in the early stages and ladies all, you've heard the term. Men are hunters and they love the chase. Well, just remember, the chase isn't like, I wanna be in a relationship, I wanna be in a relationship. That's what I'm chasing, I'm chasing a relationship. Just remember when a man is making overtly extreme effort, it's because he wants to get in your pants. Can we just call it for what it is? But you get stuck on this narrative that that's what they're supposed to do and you're not really paying attention to the more important elements within the dating, mating, and relating practice. Okay, so the first thing I'm about to share, and I put this as the highest weighted piece of this puzzle. While they're equally important, I, for me personally, this is one of the highest weighted elements of the puzzle and then he, so number one, he values your opinion and he's curious about you. I just did a post on Instagram, I wanna share it with everyone. Here's my post, just posted today. It says, dating for most people is a self-centric experience. What can I get instead of what can I give? I believe the greatest gift you can give to another is your curiosity. There's a line from the movie Blade Runner 2049. It's invigorating being asked personal questions. It makes one feel desired. Now, I go on to say some people feel very uncomfortable when a person shows genuine curiosity and other people deflect personal questions. And that's what I want to share with you. And then there are those like me who feel truly desired, valued, and respected when asked, how do you feel about that? Could you tell me more about that? So when a man genuinely asks your opinion, he asks you how you feel about something, what you think about something, or even he says something like tell me more. Now there is, he's genuinely curious. Now I believe this should happen on the very first date, true curiosity about another person. I believe the only way we can get to know someone is ask the deeper questions. And it's more like tell me more about that. I want to hear more about that. Like I want you to think about it in layers. See true intimacy is into me you see, into me you see. And no greater way to get to know someone is ask questions about their past, about their past experiences. How did it feel going through a divorce? How did it feel having that experience with your ex-wife? Now many of you will say men are supposed to be thinkers and they're logical and you should only talk in thinking questions. Hell no, it is time to change this narrative. It is, oh by the way, now I know this is what a man should be doing for you, but it goes both ways. I'm sorry, I want to be clear about this. He should be doing this. He should be genuinely curious about your opinions. You know, in my last two relationships, I continually asked them their opinions, their advice on matters. I know it's stoic for men to be strong and that you're, excuse me, that women, let me retract that. I know I'm going down two different rabbit holes. I know it's kind of the narrative that men are supposed to know everything that they should never ask their partner a question. But that's sad. That puts way too much pressure on men if we have to know everything. So when a man genuinely is curious about your opinion, he genuinely wants to know how you feel about things. This is a great sign that he values you beyond the surface. He values you beyond the physical. This is a great sign.  Do you have male friends? I think if you're a woman, you have a, by the way, do you have an opposite sex friend, maybe for those who are men watching this? You think about when you communicate with them, you're genuinely curious about their feelings. You're genuinely curious about how they think and they operate. And I think this is a great sign, a particularly in romantic relationship that a man wants to invest with you beyond the surface. He wants to invest with you beyond the surface. See, when we're all, when people are just talking about themselves, talking about themselves, talking about themselves, and they're not curious about you, that's just a self-centric. It's almost as if some people live in a bubble. Now recently I talked about these things called intimacy cards from, I got this from Amazon. It's called Best Self Company Intimacy Cards. And these are curated questions. You can ask one another, and I'm just gonna pull one out of the batch. You can ask one other to really get to know how a person thinks, how they value life. And I just pulled one out of the blue. What does your five-year plan look like?  I'm gonna throw this back, okay? And I'm gonna get to those two other things in just a moment. Let me pick some more out of here. Oh, here's an interesting. Which animal do you think is your spirit animal and why? I love, actually I like this question because it kind of gives you insight into how a person sees themselves. I've always identified with a lion, maybe because I'm a Leo, but I identify with the Leo, the lion. And why do I do that? Because on some level, he's the protector, and at the same time, he has a mate who also is a co-contributor to the health of the pride. I like that. I like that the lion is kind of like, not the leader per se, but he really cares about his pride, if you will. At the same time, the female lion is also a contributor. So I like the lion for those reasons.  How do we truly dive and get to know a person? It is through curiosity. In fact, the meme that I included in this was the biggest quest to learn anything is curiosity. If you are curious about something, you will go and dig. See, isn't that what this is all about? To really get to know someone at a deeper level so you can feel seen, heard, understood, and safe. And that's the one beautiful sign. The second beautiful sign, he motivates you to achieve your goals and desires. He motivates you to achieve your goals and desires.  What are your goals in life? And then when he hears it, he's actively a participant in helping you achieve your goals. Now, this could be both professionally, this could be personally, this could be with your family. We all have certain desires and goals. For some people, it's travel. For some people, it's being, for those of us in midlife, it's being a good parent or a good grandparent. For some people, it's just getting through their professional life, whatever it is, he's an active participant in wanting you to achieve your goals, your desires in life. I always think about the line from the movie, the blind side, the blind side. Does anyone remember that movie with, oh God, what's her name? Oh God, who's the actress? It just escapes me right now.  Someone write it down, it'll come to me in a second. Oh, that bugs me. Okay, but there's a line in the movie. And she says, I've got your back, I've got your back. Or does she say that? Now I might be screwing up this quote.  I'm so stuck on that. But having your back, being protective, that's a great sign that a man wants to forge a fully committed relationship with you. This can happen very early on in the dating process. Now just remember, you have to be careful. The first six weeks is the, I wanna get in your pants period at times. So a lot of rhetoric that said during the six weeks can be really confusing. It's the six weeks thereafter, it's the three month mark. Are you seeing these signs? It's a really good sign that he wants to be in relationship with you, okay? He wants to be committed to you. He motivates you with your goals and your desires. And number three, this is so critically important. He's open to sharing his feelings about you from a commitment perspective. He's open to sharing his feelings about you from a commitment perspective. See, it's not like, oh my God, you're so amazing. You're so wonderful. Oh my God, we can take trips together. Oh my gosh, I can see myself getting married. That's all rhetoric from limerence and lust doing all the talking. When he actually talks about things like the future with you. When he actually, after the first 90 days, the first six weeks is that, this is the period of time where you gotta recognize most men are trying to get in your pants. Now you might be going, but Jonathan, I'm in a long distance relationship. We've been communicating for six months. This goes well past your six week period, folks. Let me be clear. If you're engaging in a long distance dynamic, it doesn't begin happening until you meet. It doesn't count until you meet, until you're physically face to face with someone. And just remember, unless you see each other frequently, which is very difficult in long distance dynamic, mostly because of logistics and because of resources, just remember those don't count when I talk about this. I'm talking about two people that live less than one hour from each other and they can see each other consistently. During this first 90 days.  It's like once, okay, there's something called post-nut clarity, post-nut clarity. Once a man is ejaculated, that's when you get to know his true feelings. So just remember, if he's abandoned you after sex, he wasn't that into you. He was just only getting late. If he was spending regular time with you and he's asking these deeper questions, he's investing in you and then he's talking about a future with you, that's a great sign that he wants to be committed to you. And I call these three beautiful signs because actually I borrowed this title from Stefan Speig. So I wanna give him credit. From this perspective, I meant to mention that earlier. Is this stuff sinking in? Is this resonating? Please let me know if it is. Post a comment below. I'd like to hear your thoughts. And if you found value in this video, please hit that like button. Please share this video. Please subscribe to my channel and hit that notification bell so you can be notified of new videos. All right, it's time for questions. If you have a question, write the word question and post the question thereafter. Or you can purchase a Super Sticker Super Chat and then the little dollar sign in the chat box. And if you're watching the replay, you can purchase a Super Thanks. All the monies from the Super Sticker Super Chat goes to a scholarship fund in the name of my son, Connor Asley. That's a picture of him right there. His nickname is Salty. He's my son who passed away over five years ago and his honor, we donate to causes like the Hoffman Process and Insight Institute just to name a few, okay? So again, purchase that little, and our goal today is $50. We'd like to donate $50. Okay, we've got our first question that came in from Paltry Flowers and she says, can trust be rebuilt? Can trust be rebuilt? Where's that book? My dear friend, Dr. Sherry Myers wrote a book called Chatting or Cheating. How to Detect Infidelity, Rebuild Love in a Fair Proof Your Relationship. Now, when we talk about trust, most of the time we think of fidelity, but there could be other ways to break trust. Why I like her book, and by the way, all the books I recommend are below. Why I like her book is because it gives some real simple. I mean, by the way, the way the book is laid out is so simplistic. I gotta tell you something. You know, it's really simplistic on how it's laid out, but it can talk about how to rebuild trust. Can it be rebuilt? Absolutely, it can. Does it? Most likely not. Most human beings are rather self-centric. They're rather in their own consciousness. They're not, you know, they're not, most human beings aren't capable. However, it is absolutely possible with two conscious beings who genuinely, genuinely want to repair the relationship. And while Sweet Chick says no, trust be rebuilt, no. I disagree, it is absolutely possible. It's just highly unlikely. By the way, let's think about this. You know, okay, I'm gonna call this out. How many of you have been in a relationship and you've said a white lie? Okay, you've said a white lie.  And then by the way, the white lie has been found out, but it doesn't affect the relationship. It's very rare that two people are absolutely in integrity all the time.  Most people act so, they act so righteous as if they're in integrity. And God forbid, what's the saying? He who without sin cast the first stone. So I'm here to say, yeah, it's absolutely possible when you consciously are working on a relationship because people betray our trust all the time in tiny little ways all the time.  Yeah, people accept bad behavior all the time too. What does that say about them? Anyway, I'm just going off on a rant here. Okay, Anna's in the house and she says, how do you push back a guy who does not, wait, how do you push back a guy who does not much your current needs? I think meet your current needs and standards with a nice and polite manner. How do you push back? Well, I'm not sure you want to push back. I think how do you want to encourage nice and polite manner? I'm always a big fan of leading by example and pointing out when you feel disrespected.  I'm thinking that's what we're talking about. I could be off base because I wasn't clear, but I think it's important when you feel disrespected to express yourself. If you're not familiar with the book, Nonviolent Communication by Marshall Rosenberg, every one of you should be reading this to learn how to communicate in a more healthy way in relationship. So yeah, I think you have to lead by example and also model the type of communication you like and also express when a person is not communicating in a kind, respectful manner, okay? Question, what do you think of a man who constantly brings up his childhood and first marriage constantly? Say you're like a broken record. Wait, what do you think of a man who constantly brings up his childhood first mantras? I constantly say you already told me this broken record. So some humans are stuck in a loop. They're stuck in a loop. Did you know that most humans have between 12 to 60,000 thoughts a day? 12 to 60,000 thoughts a day. And 90% of those thoughts are a repetitive thought. So this person most likely hasn't healed from his childhood and his first marriage. They are stuck in a loop. And it's not your job to be a therapist. It's not your job to hold space continually for that. If somebody is stuck in a narrative, then it's their job to go heal that narrative. It might, and it's exhausting to be with somebody who is stuck in a loop. I get that, Missy. And you may have to express yourself and maybe go to a counselor together and talk about your feelings. But most likely it's gonna be, see, think about this. If someone is stuck in the past, they can't create a future with you. It's your job to say I want a relationship where somebody is present to me. This is an invitation for you to end the relationship because if someone is constantly stuck in the past, they can't grow with you in the future. They can have companionship, connection, and sex, but it's gonna be almost impossible for them to truly commit if they're stuck in the past. Does anyone agree with me? If you do agree with me, tell Missy Jonathan is on target here. Anna says, thank you, Jonathan. I appreciate that. I'm appreciating that. Question from Magic Entertainer. I met this guy. He is 24 years old. I'm 48 now.  We had sex. I'm gonna say, see him once, only once a week. I have feelings. Should I wait till he does? What should I do? Okay. What's the definition of, no. All right, let me, I was gonna say, what's the definition of insanity? Well, I don't know what your pattern is, so let's not look at it from that way. Okay, so let me just give you upfront the Magic Entertainer. You're on the Titanic. There's an iceberg. Okay, you see the iceberg. Oh, let me actually give it to you a different analogy. You're walking down a street. There's a deep hole in the sidewalk. You fall in, you're lost, you're helpless, but it isn't my fault. Takes you a long time to get out. You walk down the same street. There's a deep hole in the sidewalk.   Takes you a long time to get out. You walk down the street. There's a deep hole in the sidewalk. You see it, you fall in. You take ownership that this was my fault. You get out quickly. You walk down the same street. There's a deep hole in the sidewalk. You walk around it. And then the next chapter, you walk down a different street. Okay, what's my point in this analogy? He's how old, let me look at this again. He's 24 years, he's half your age. He's only looking for fun and you have sex. And you have feelings for him. And you're waiting for him to have feelings for you. The probability of that is less than 1%. Well, let me tell you why. Well, there's always exceptions to the rule. He doesn't, he's a, at best, he's a three-year-old adult. Okay, I want you to think about this. Let's say adulthood starts at age 21 instead of 18.  Now kids are in their house. By the way, does he live with his folks? If he still lives with his folks, he's not an adult, okay? So his adulthood begins the minute he is on his own, okay? And I'm just gonna assume it's age 21, but probably not. He's only a three-year-old adult. He's got little or no life experience. What is your expectation? If it's simply that he has feelings for you, sure he physically has feelings for you, but his capacity to lean into the kind of things I talk about to fully commit to you is highly unlikely. So this is, you're on the Titanic. Now you can, the good news is you can get off of this. You can get off the ship, okay? You most likely won't because it feels good.  I'm not here to judge that. You're welcome to have what you want, but you said I have feelings for him. And trust me, that means attachment. And it's going to feel like hitting an iceberg if you're attached and it doesn't work out. Does anyone agree with me? Say, Jonathan, I agree with your assessment towards magic entertainer, all right? That's my opinion. You're more than welcome to write me and tell me you think otherwise, okay? Oh, Alexa wants to say, Missy, Jonathan is spot on. Even Missy goes on to say, I agree 100%. I broke it off. I just feel so bad. He has a sweetheart. I could see our future though. Thanks, Jonathan. All I need, I just confirmed that I did the right thing. Okay, good. Oh, magic entertainer comes back and says I want to meet the right person, but I thought I could have something casual until I do. He told me that he can't afford a relationship. His financial problem has to Uber for food, lives with his cousin, okay? All right, so folks, I think energetically speaking, if you have a friend with benefit and you're actively still looking for a relationship, and I'm talking about a conscious, healthy relationship, you are blocking true energetic soul love. It is absolutely easy to enter into what's known as a transactional relationship, a transactional relationship is where you are basically giving to get something, okay? You're giving maybe your time. You're giving your money. Men do this all the time. They give their financial resources so they can get sex, okay? That's a transactional relationship. Women will give sex to get some level of security. That's a transactional relationship. And I think getting into a transactional relationship is very common. It's probably the most common of all relationships. Here's the thing, when you seek a conscious relationship and you have a friend with benefit or you're just, and you're rationalizing, well, it's okay that I have sex, then you'll most likely find yourself when you do meet someone, you'll find yourself in some level of transactional relationship. And by the way, the first example I gave you in transactional is the most common, but there are multiple layers of transactional relationship. For some men, you are their therapist. That's the transaction. He pays for dinners and dates and you are his therapist. You're unbeknownst therapist, okay? Many of you find yourself in situationships. In other words, the trade office, he's paying for things, he gets sex from you, but there's no level of real commitment in this. Many of you are in what's known as casual or transactional relationships. And that's my concern for you, Magic Entertainer. While you're holding out for your soul relationship, you will block the soul relationship by being engaged with someone else and then you'll get yourself into a transactional relationship in the future because it's blocking a soul relationship. That's my concern for you. Carol is in the house and she says, why do I keep attracting unavailable men? I'm also meeting a man that wants me to be second woman. Can you recommend a book that can help me with this issue? Now, my book isn't, my book is an exact, I'm gonna recommend my book right now. What the heck is self-love anyway, a journey of personal development, self-help and spiritual work? Has nothing to do with what you're talking about other than your sovereignty, okay? I'm gonna recommend another book in a moment, but your sovereignty, okay? Now, why do you attract emotionally unavailable men? Because 980% of men and women out in the dating market pool are emotionally unavailable or emotionally constipated. And ladies, did you hear me? I said men and women, I know you all, you individually think you're above everyone else. This is the specialness that is talked about in the course of Miracles. Everybody thinks they're the unicorn, okay? Now I am gonna recommend a book that's directly related. It's called Why Men Love Bitches, from doormat to dream girl, a woman's guide to holding her own.  Babe in total control of herself, yes, okay? What I do like in this book is the empowerment it encourages women to have for their own sovereignty. I don't like the game playing part of the book, okay? But I love the sovereignty part of the book. And so I invite you to check out that book and there's a link below in Jonathan recommended books, okay? By the way, does anyone wanna join the hot seat? Does anyone wanna join me live? Let's get you on the hot seat. I'm gonna put a link right here. If you wanna join me live, let's talk, okay? All right, let's keep going, let's keep going. Amy says, best way for people our age to meet, screen them. Okay, I guess that's a response to something, okay. Susan writes, I asked my live-in boyfriend of two years what's in intentions for our future?  Should I deal with him? You've gotta listen, folks, make a stand for what you want, okay? It sounds to me you're in a transactional casual relationship. Living together, now living with someone is a good sign that they're at least making an investment in you, but the reality is is sometimes living together is just to share expenses. I was talking to a therapist right after when COVID hit. Oh, this was about, was it a year, the first year after COVID. And she told me that her practice was filled with couples who had moved in together during COVID that were brand new relationships. And they were struggling because they moved in together for financial resources to share financial, to take advantage, to utilize their mutual resources to cut down expenses, okay. And a lot of people do that, but they're not really compatible with one another. So you're, by the way, I believe after one year, you should, if you've spent four seasons with a person for those states that actually have four seasons in California, we have one season, kinda two. But well, we have June bloom too. Anyway, my point is, is once you've gone through four seasons with someone, it's time to have real serious conversation. What's the point of this? Other than, just remember today, okay, unlike hundreds, if not thousands and thousands of years, people committed to each other fully, okay. Now we can partially commit. In fact, what many of you find yourself in is what's known as a placeholder relationship, because most people enter into the dating practice without intentionality. Look, I'm your big brother. If I could be there on a first date, I'd have a shotgun pointed at the guy's face and say, what's your intentions with my little sister? My point is, intentionality means everything. How two people enter into a relationship will give you a clue of how it will perform. And if you enter into it ambivalent, naive, ambiguous, ambivalent, naive, or ambiguous, you only have yourself to blame. I'm walking down a street, there's a deep hole in the sidewalk. Remember, discernment, intentionality, along with chemistry, is the recipe for relationship success. And if you need some support with that, look right there. There's a link to schedule a discovery call with me, the CF working with a coach is right for you. There's a link below. My area of expertise is to help you vet for those men who are ready, men that are ready to give you the three beautiful signs he wants to commit to you. Thank you, Susan. Bum, bum, bum, bum.  Yes, that is true. A man will covet, men are territorial.  I get that, I agree. Okay, question from Kaz. Is it a transactional relationship necessarily bad if I'm happy and she seems to be okay with it? Do most women, they're happy with it for the short run, but remember that given that 80% of divorces are initiated by women because of a lack of intimacy, into me you see. A transactional relationship is rarely, and it might be a sexual relationship, but it's not an emotional intimate relationship. So the answer to your question is, is it okay? Well, everything is okay, there's no judgment here, but if you want a transactional relationship to seed, add emotional into succeed, add emotional intimacy into the mix. Most humans, that's why I recommended these intimacy cards earlier. Most humans really don't build the deep roots of trust, the deep roots of trust. One of the things I talk about in my private coaching is the five deep roots of trust, and that includes emotional connection, pretty much centered around your love language, economic agreement because given that money is the cause of a big percentage of divorces, it's all, it's important to be on the same page. The introduction of social activities, hobbies, mutual interests, spending time with family and friends, traveling, teamwork building skills and intimacy, both physical and emotional intimacy, that builds the deep roots of trust. I think one of the reasons why my clients are fine, I mean, I get calls each week, Jonathan, I met a great guy, Jonathan, I met a great guy, Jonathan, I met a great guy, and what they mean is they know the difference because of how these men show up, because they are showing up in their full sovereign self. I'm just going, and they're not accepting of transactional relationships. Okay, let's keep going. Esther says, oh my God, after four significant relationships, no regrets, I am who I am now from gaining self-awareness and growth, exactly. Carol says, thank you, Jonathan, you're very welcome and Wanda's in the house. Question, I dream about having bad dates with just meeting a new guy. They have red flags right off, then somewhere in the, in it, an ex bails me out. It's weird, why do I dream like this?   But I believe within dream therapy, it's possible that you are each person in your dream, okay? And we are playing a character within ourselves. That's one thing I, from what I understand, I think that's Jungian dream therapy. I could be completely mistaken. So God, I should share with you my dream. I was, it was a date, I had a date with someone and it turns out I completely forgot the restaurant, we're dry, I forgot the restaurant and the play that we were going to or musical or something. I'm like, I was completely lost and I was feeling so agitated and uneasy. I was in, and I was causing anxiety for the person I was with. But I remember when I had my third big date with Marie, I lost my car at the airport. Oh my God, we spent an hour looking for it.  That should have been a red flag for her. I'll be candid with you. I don't handle difficult situations well, I just don't. Now, thankfully she has a very chill personality, she was very accepting, she was very loving, she was very patient. But this is something I'm aware of my, I'm gonna go off on a tangent here. I'm aware of a red flag I have. I struggle in difficult situations. It's very reminiscent of my father, it's very much something that was imprinted from my father. He couldn't handle difficult situations, he would get agitated, anxious, almost to the point of getting even a little bit violent and I'm aware I have this. I'm doing my best to work and heal it, I really am. And it's a turn off. I mean, I can understand it could be a turn off like what happened in the dream. So I'm gonna do some dream analysis with my coach later to kind of get a sense of what was really going on here. I really don't know. But I also recognize that the person I'm best suited with is someone who has a chill personality when I'm in a heightened state of anxiety, just like I'm chill when somebody is in a state of heightened anxiety. So what I'm really recognizing that I want someone who can mirror how I am when someone's in a heightened state because that's the way I am. Anyway, but I don't know. I'm just, I went off on a rabbit hole there. Thanks for listening. How do you meet someone and have a meaning for a relationship with someone when you have kids? People with children meet children all the time. It's not that you can't. By the way, does anyone remember the TV show Brady Bunch? It's, you know, how you don't even have to ask that word to how the question might be, can I? And the answer is yes, you can. How by being upfront and finding someone who can appreciate someone who has children, not everybody can do that.  And so I think I selfishly want to be with someone who isn't raising children because it's just a painful experience for me. I'd be candid with you. It takes time to build trust and safety with someone's children, but for me personally, it's a really sensitive space. Now I'm an empty nester. And so I seek someone who's also an empty nester. You have to meet someone who's really in a space of really loves children, doesn't have a wound like I have with respects to children. And I'm sorry, this just triggered me folks. I saw, I was going through my safety the other day and I pulled out a locket of my son's hair. I cut it from his lifeless body, just as a memento, if you will, and no parent should lose a child. At the same time, you should choose a partner who wants to be an active participant in this process. And not everybody is capable of that. This is really hard stuff. This is the challenge of midlife. Dr. Laura Schlesinger would say, wait till your children are 18 before you date. I don't believe that, I don't believe you have to, but I will say it is a challenging, there's no doubt there's a challenge to it. But what's most important is you maintain your sovereignty, be that loving mother and hold space for someone who wants to meet you where you're at. Does anyone resonate with what I just shared? I'd really appreciate hearing your thoughts below. And excuse me for going emotional there for a second. By the way, KT says, hole in the sidewalk, that is from Wayne Dyer. I believe Wayne Dyer said it, but I don't believe he wrote it. I don't believe he wrote it. I know he said it, but I don't believe he wrote it. I could be mistaken though. By the way, if anyone wants to ask me a personal question since I got vulnerable and personal, write the word personal question and post the question thereafter. Funny question, have you ever gone to meet a girl that you met online who looked nothing like her picture? Oh my God, yes. Oh my God, yes. You know, I try to make, I have, you know, I am incredibly selective now, now before I meet anyone in the future.  I think it's important to do a FaceTime before meeting someone. If you meet them through an online dating site, if you meet them in person, then this situation won't happen. I believe FaceTime, Zoom, Google, Meet, whatever. Yes, yes, yes. See them physically, but has that happened to me? Oh my God, yeah. And you know, I'm not every woman's cup of tea.  I have wrinkles, folks. I even have gray hair right here. I have wrinkles. I have sunspots on my face, okay? I'm not perfect like my pictures. Anyway. Magic Entertainer wants to add something I made out with a 20 year old to try to get over the 24 year old.  Please forgive me. I'm just being tongue-in-cheek. JT says, wasn't Carl Jung a satanic at heart? I have no idea. He could have been. But his methodologies still represent, from what I understand, his methodologies do represent a significant methodology in the way therapy is done. I believe so. By the way, folks, I would love a donation to the Connor Asley Scholarship Fund. Let's get some money going today. If I've been providing you value, can you support? I would love to give away some money today. Use that little dollar sign to donate. Okay, Kate is in the house. I finally broke up with my six year long distance on again off game relationship four months ago due to no future planning on his part. I miss him, but I need to move on. Any advice on how to do so? Invest in personal development, self-help spiritual work. Immerse yourself in reading books. Immerse yourself, read this book. Read this book. Excuse my burp. The Untethered Soul by Michael Singer. Highly recommend reading this book, Kate. And then I want you to follow up with this book. Return to Love by Marianne Williamson.  Every time you think about him, say blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Now, why are you doing that? This is a pattern interrupt. What you're trying to do is interrupt that repetitive thoughts with a pattern. Now, there's some other technique you may want to use and it's known as the Hawaiian forgiveness prayer. Someone write this down, Hawaiian forgiveness prayer. Hawaiian, it's also known as a hapona, pona, pono, pono. Did I say that right? Ho, hapona, pono, pono, pono. I might have messed that up a little bit. Hawaiian forgiveness prayer. Nine simple words, okay? Now this was the way I learned it. I'm not suggesting this is, I think it could be, I've heard it two different ways. This is the way I learned it. You say to yourself, I love you. I'm sorry. Please forgive me. Thank you. I love you. I'm sorry. Please forgive me. Thank you. I love you. I'm sorry. Please forgive me. Thank you. This creates a pattern interrupt. Now forgiveness, what is forgiveness? Forgiveness is an injection of love, forgiving love. The reason why I went like this, I want you to inject into your arm, forgiving love, forgiveness, okay? So that's my invitation for you in this particular case. Read these books, say blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, and the Hawaiian forgiveness prayer, okay? Hey, I want to thank, oh, Gigi just gave us a $4.99 super sticker. Way to go, Gigi. Question, is it normal? And by the way, that gets us 40, we only need $45 more today to get to our $50 call. Is it normal?  That must be so hard for that gentleman. Could it be that he can't give his heart to somebody else?  That it could be that his love for his child and the pain he's experiencing for his child might make it difficult for him to open his heart. I'm not saying it is an absolute, I'm just saying it is quite possible. And as much as you ladies are nurturers and givers and lovers, just remember, a real true healthy relationship is a reciprocal relationship of giving and receiving, receiving and giving, giving and receiving, receiving and giving, okay? So I hope that helps answer your question. I want to give props to Kate for the $10 super sticker. We are $35 away from our goal. And Kate wants to say thank you, I appreciate it. Alina says, Hawaiian forgiveness per, exactly. Dale says, seeing the picture of Connor at the end of your book brought me to tears as it is the same age of my daughter. He was a beautiful young man sending a big Jonathan Bear hug. I haven't shown this picture in a long while. This is the last photograph taken of Connor or I think the second to the last photograph of taken of Connor. It is so reminiscent of a part of his personality. It's one of my favorite pictures of him. So thank you so much. I really appreciate that. All right, let's keep going back up here. I saw some questions. JK Nott says, do you know if Marie watches these videos or do you worry about it or have asked the $1,000 question? I don't believe she watches these videos. I don't worry about it. I do my best to be as respectful. She is quite aware that we, I would talk about our dynamic to some degree. I'd like to think I've been incredibly respectful if I've crossed a boundary for her. She's more than welcome to bring me up, bring it to my attention and I would certainly remove content if she felt it disrespected her. I don't believe I do anything to disrespect her. I just share what my perspective is of what happened in our dynamic. So thank you for asking that question. Esther said, I have created a growing list of what I want in a man. I think us women need to know what we want so we don't waste our time. Oh my God, Esther, absolutely. Women come to me all the time. Jonathan, I know what I want. I know what I want. I know what I want in relationship. And then they go through this proprietary coaching program. I created and can you guess what they say every single time? I had no clue as to what I wanted. Schedule a discovery call with me to see if working with a coach is right for you. All right, let's keep going. Esther wants to respond to losing my car. You were probably so excited to meet her at the airport that you missed looking at the floor where you parked. I have done that at airport when I picked up family and it was, I mean, I had completely got turned around when that happened and I completely screwed up and I got disoriented the way I parked and you're absolutely right. And ever since then, I always take a photo. Ever since that happened, I took a photograph. I took two photographs where I exited the building and where exactly the car was. So that wouldn't, if I wouldn't screw that up. Hey, Missy, I want to thank, oh my God, we just got a bunch of love from Missy. She just gave us two super stickers of $19. So 40, by the way, we are now, our goal is $100 tonight. We need $30 more, $40 more to get there. Thank you so much. I appreciate the love. Missy, you don't see, oh, you saw the place to donate. Okay. All right, let's see what else we got here. JK says, after my last breakup, I bought a key chain that said, don't go there. I need to stop ruminating about breaking up with him. So I want to, I appreciate what you've done. I want you to invite something different. I want you to get a new bracelet that says, it's raining great men, it's raining great men, it's raining great men, it's raining great, I don't have to say it that many times, but I want you to focus on the positive, don't go there because you do want to go into, I know it's not going back to him, but I want you to focus on your present and your future, not your past, okay? So JK, that's just an invitation for you, okay? Karen says, I love the untethered soul, so insightful. I agree. And Missy says, yes, it's twice. Thank you for the love. That is so beautiful, we appreciate that. Wanda says, I know I don't want a guy ordering me a drink when I have a Coke sitting there, when I didn't drink, big red flag. Why are you even thinking about that? Like that happened once, okay? Okay, it happened once in your life, okay? Okay, you're gonna tell me, no, it's happened 17 times. I find that incredibly unlikely, it's happened 17 times. It happened once. Why are you thinking about something that happened once as if it's going to happen again? Because guess what? It will happen again because you were thinking about it. Folks, we attract what we think about.  Stop it, stop it, okay? Denise says, I needed that. I appreciate that. Magic entertainers back in the house. Boyfriend, when we're 14, wrote me a 30 page love letter, rings, necklaces, flowers was with him for three and a half years. We broke up 30 years old. I will never get this from a 24 year old. Does anyone remember, what was the movie with Brooke Shields? Endless, no, not endless love. What was the one where he was obsessed with her and ended up burning down her house and everything? You know, what you're describing to me is possibly while it might appear to be love, it could also be obsession. When we're young, that feeling of limerence could be so obsessive that we lose ourself. And I suspect there was a reason why you broke up and it didn't work out, but we have to be careful of exaggerated love. Exaggerated love is usually an abandonment of one's own sovereignty. Now I'm not suggesting that's what happened here, entertainer, but I'm just suggesting be careful. Exaggerated love is not the healthiest of all loves. It's not the healthiest. Okay, this will be our last question from Sweet Chick. Is manifesting a relationship you want true? Manifest, so the way I understand the law of attraction, if you want to manifest something, is that you sit with the feeling of abundance and you'll start experiencing abundance. If you sit with the feeling of abundance, if you focus your energy on abundance, it's not about a relationship, it's not about money, it's about feeling an abundant life. And when you're in a space of feeling abundance, you'll begin to attract abundance in your life. That's the way I observed the law of attraction and I do believe you can manifest a variety of different things.  Most of you are not even aware because you don't pay attention, but you're manifesting things all the time. Most people manifest negativity because they spend 90% of their thoughts in negative thoughts. 90% of thoughts are negative room and they're repetitive thoughts. They're negative and repetitive. So that's my invitation for everyone. And JT says, great question, be very careful, exactly. All right, folks, did you find value in this conversation? If you did, post a comment below. I'd like to hear your thoughts. If you did find value, please hit that like button. Please share this video. Please subscribe to my channel. Also, for our last few minutes of donation, let's get to that $100 goal tonight. We're very close. I think we're only like $30 away. So hit that little dollar sign in the chat box or purchase a super sticker, super chat, or super thanks if you went this far. All right, I'm gonna wrap up this video as I always do.  I'm gonna reach you. Oh God, do you see those pit stains? I'm gonna reach in the camera and give you a hug of love if that's okay. I'm gonna ask you to turn to someone, a pat, a teddy bear pillow, and give Iter them a hug of love because hugs are a great source of love. And let's face it, we could all use more love in our lives. I wanna thank Melissa who says great session and sweet chick who says, oh, thank you, it makes sense. And Denise, I found value. I'm so happy to hear that. And Jody and Jim Cole and JT and Esther and Karen and Naughty Kitty and the magic entertainer and Kate and Denise and Wanda and Missy. And Missy, thanks for the love and Naughty Kitty and JK Nats and Jody P and Elena, Vale, Valentine, sweet chick, LD. Thanks so much. Wishing you a super.


Yeah, I think we're good to go. All right, so I also turned over to you and thanks again for providing this demonstration. Yeah, I appreciate it so I'll introduce myself to talk about kind of the quick agenda and be happy to kind of take interactive questions as we do. So my name is Harris Kamal. I'm the Chief Revenue Officer for Medi Ledger's network that's administered by Chronicle. We'll kind of explain kind of how that works as well. My background has been in life sciences for the last 17 years, typically in startup scenarios, working in the supply chain. And then a bit of a pivot here to charge backs and we will explain what charge backs is as we get into this for us. And obviously, this is not a technical discussion today. Today, I'm going to be focused on kind of the business case and the business reasons of what delivered as a solution that is in fact powered by blockchain in the back. I think there's some background noise that just started. Okay. No problem. So with that, I'm going to kind of jump in and kind of talk about what it is that we were built to do. So we're basically are looking to streamline financial transactions for the life sciences industry. So we had to pick a place to start. And what we were doing, you know, and I'll be very honest with you guys, there was a time where I was a blockchain naysayer where it seemed like blockchain was just a panacea for every single thing that we could ever think of. Whether it was tracking our products in the supply chain or tracking sneakers on a sneaker exchange to make sure that they're authentic, right? It was all blockchain powered information. What the reason I joined Betty ledger is because I really felt that we were on to a very precise business case that actually levered in the right way for the right thing solving the right problem. And what we found, you know, in, as we look into healthcare and life sciences work in pharma across distribution and so forth, is that there's a trillion dollars spent each year in just the administration of our healthcare. Now, when we get into kind of it from a systems perspective, what you'll find is that, you know, as like any supply chains go, there's any factors there's distributors and there's consumers dispensers hospitals pharmacies. And it's very similar to any supply chain, right? There's those equal participants. The problem happens in these supply chains is that there's this perpetual misalignment of data. Just really simple things, right, is that, you know, in our, as we get into our youth, we'll talk about, you know, purchasing organizations, distributors and manufacturers, but their data has to align in order for these financial transactions to take place. Okay, so it's as simple as, you know, Harris wants to send money to Jeff, do we both know each other's unique identifier, can we align on that or do we both call each other something different, right? Does pharma manufacturer like Pfizer call a drug a certain name, when it gets to the distributor, they call it something else when it gets to, you know, the hospital system and the pharmacy, maybe they refer to it as something else. And what happens is, is when you're trying to conduct any financial transactions that data misalignment ends up in errors, as you can imagine right so you submit whether you're buying something returning something, any transaction you want to engage in has to be aligned right you both have to understand who's the party buying it who's what are we buying, when did we buy it what price are we eligible for, based on our profiles. And that misalignment re leads to what we call revenue leakage, and we'll talk a little bit about that. But what the industry has done all along to solve these problems is just throw more people at it. Right, we've not leveraged technology much. And as we engage in life sciences strangely enough we're probably so innovative when it comes to product development in the pharmaceutical manufacturing arena, but really not so when it comes to technology and leveraging technology in order to conduct business. So, what is happening right now is that there's a number of transactions that are supported with these financial transactions and we'll talk about charge backs are supported by EDI, which is an age old technology quite frankly has been around I think since the 70s. It's not, you know, an intelligent technology it doesn't really validate data it doesn't make sure that there's any business rules and forest or anything of that nature. And what happens is is that when you're doing that it's it's not real time. It's doesn't have any alignment factors in terms of making sure that we're all referring to something as the same thing takes weeks and days, you know, in manual applications to get it get it done. What we're moving the industry towards and we call it bit of an industry movement is automation, lowering their costs and making it real time. And what we'll do is we're looking to basically offer a solution that's much like a clearinghouse. So what that means is is that us as the administrator of the many ledger network, right, there's a number of participants in it distributors group purchasing manufacturers, we act as a clearinghouse meaning when that information is submitted, we've kept an aligned the data outside of your four walls. So what the distributor calls the drug, what they refer to you as a customer, what pricing eligibility they had is now aligned, people spend tons of money to do it inside their four walls, but what network to allow allows you to do is have a shared sense of the what we call the source of truth. So there's a source of truth for membership IDs, you're identifying there's a source of truth for what the product is called. There's a source of truth for the contract and the pricing available for those drugs. And once we with the network 2.0 that level of technology allows us to align all the participants in the financial transactions, so that it can be done in real time so that it can be automated so that something like a blockchain can enforce business transactions that say hey if these conditions are met. This transaction is legitimate and should flow through the system. So that is kind of the intent, a little bit about our background. I think it's really interesting to see how we came together. This is a platform and a network that was built by the industry for the industry. There are a number of collaborators inside it, large manufacturers. If you know much about the distribution of pharmaceutical products in the US, you know that McKesson Cardinal Health and Mayor source Bergen who is now called synchora and rebranded themselves control about 90% of the supply. So products are being purchased. So whatever Cardinal McKesson or Mayor source Bergen are likely one of the distributors behind it. There's other sources of information that we collaborate with called a group purchasing organization so group purchasing organizations is basically, you know, they, they aggregate the spend and the buying power of hospital systems as an example.  So the folks that we started with are where the manufacturers a wholesalers and the group purchasing organizations. And this industry came together over a number of years they created a working group. We actually started in a working group that was dedicated to the drug supply chain security act. And that was for the tracking trace of products and the requirement to verify that that product was not counterfeit and it was legitimate throughout the supply chain. So we were a participant in that and one of our products supported that and that industry working group as they were getting together. They said, look, this is really interesting that we are, you know, solving this compliance issue with a blockchain based technology for track and trace. And we really would believe is an issue is this issue with charge backs. And we should look at what we can do to solve this problem that we have in a charge back I'm going to explain here. And so they had us look at this. So a charge back occurs this in this way and if some of us are probably old enough to remember rebates where we used to buy an item and have to fill out a piece of paper, tell you what, attach our receipt, tell you what product we bought. And look mail it in within 30 days to get our rebate back. Right. So, think of it in that context. What happens here is, is that a distributor like Cardinal health, for example, will purchase drugs from Pfizer. Let's just call it at $100 a vial. What happens is, is that they will then end up selling that to a hospital system that's part of a group purchasing organization, but that group purchasing organization has made a deal and has a contract for their members with Pfizer that says, Hey, I get this for $80. So of course, the distributor has now bought it for 100. They fulfill the order at $80. And what they do in order to make themselves hold again is go and submit a claim to Pfizer that says, Hey, I sold this drug. I referenced this contract. It was for this group purchasing organization member so they got this pricing at $80. I bought it at 100. Here's the members ID. Here's my contract ID. Here's all the information you need. I'm submitting it. Please give me my $20. And so that is in fact what a chargeback is. So, a very specific term within our within our community, but there's $90 billion worth of these transactions going on every year. If you look on the annual reports for Pfizer or J and J, they actually have it as a line I, you know, it's the, you know, for I think for Pfizer was like $9 billion on it that they that they reserve and cash flow for this particular transaction. And it makes a big impact on their bottom line. Now the issue here is that you with the current system, 4% of those chargebacks are an error, meaning they will basically end up in a dispute. So Cardinal will submit it. And Pfizer will deny it and say, guys, you're outside of your submission window or you did not reference a contract or, hey, that that that person you sold it to was not eligible for this pricing. So I'm going to deny that chargeback and they're misaligned right and it could be that hey they didn't get the contract price updated in time. They didn't get that member associated to that contract in time because it's not in real time right now, using email and EDI at best. And they'll dispute it that they have, you know, Cardinal has hundreds of people dedicated to resolving this dispute. And there has a team of people that does the same and at some point, they will either agree that one of the parties was wrong and issue the chargeback, or they could agree to disagree and settle the claim, maybe at 50%, or they completely write it off. And that is what ends up in the revenue leakage that's costing the industry about $4 to $10 billion a year. So that is what it is that we've kind of focused on in Harris. Yeah, hi Tom playing quick, quick question. Was there any sort of clearinghouse in place or any sort of mechanism to aggregate this data previously, or is this brand new everything was point to point previous previously. This is brand new we really don't have another aggregator of sorts or a network of sorts in play when it comes to chargebacks. Okay, got it. And I'm just doing what I'm rolling around in my mind is, in a similar situation Walmart Canada, they had to spew itself 70%. And Sierra would get it down to 1%. So, 4% sounds a lot lower than 70%. So I'm pretty impressed that it was only 4%, but still that's $4 billion. It's a lot of money. It's a lot of money right and when it comes down to the individuals, you know, we're, it's a matter of cash flow, right, the cost of capital that they can't put this capital work it's unpredictable so they have reserves, you know, $9 billion sitting around waiting to figure out where the chargebacks are going to come in, because they don't have any kind of they haven't had. I should say any, you know, thing that gave them a lot of confidence that everything that they know is going to be paid and they don't need to keep extra reserves around. Thank you. So, just to give you an idea about where this fits in, you know, pharma will always talk about their grossed in that problem. It's an interesting there's a report from Johnson and Johnson. And I'll report that on chart on this and what they do is they point out that hey, drug prices seem to be going up, but it's not that the drug manufacturers are making more money on a margin basis. They're actually paying more fees. They're paying more rebates. They are issuing more chargebacks. They're dealing with copay cards returns. And net sales, if you get grind it out down to very little, one of the largest components of this, you know, the deductions that they take is chargebacks. So that is where we where we started to get alignment from the industry with the pharma manufacturers, the distributors, and the group purchasing organizations. And we added health systems to the network just just got our first one in so what you'll hear us focused on is its alignment and accuracy that that is what it is that these folks are after. And I know there's a blockchain talk so I'm going to give a little bit of blockchain we we do use substrate as our blockchain for those technical people and not technical so I won't be able to go into much detail there. So the choice that we made early on thinking that many blockchains could end up connected and and substrate gave us the opportunity to do that. We are a permission based blockchain. What we typically use the blockchain for is a couple of things right of course the trust making sure that the parties are registered and we know who they are and as they're exchanging the sensitive data around drugs and pricing. So that's the type of financial transactions. Of course the security, but the rule enforcement is what really comes into place in our network and as I walk you through kind of how we've solution for this. That will kind of come to come to bear as well.  I've referenced a contract that the blockchain has a identifier for it should be automatically credited back to me. So if the blockchain is doing that rule enforcement, there's no ambiguity. There's no person to kind of evaluate the claim as long as it needs those conditions that claim would be honored. Again, as I'll just point out really quickly, again, we're focused on manufacturers, distributors and GPOs and I will kind of talk and I think we've talked about the business case a little bit already here so I'm going to skip that. But what I want to point out is I'll get into a little detail about how this was happening today and what it is that we brought to the table and what the future state looks like for our current customers. So I've mentioned the group purchasing organizations, you'll see here on the left hand side, I've mentioned the manufacturers, and I've mentioned the wholesale distributors. Now, what happens today just to give you an idea of how this whole process comes together is a group purchasing organization basically publishes a roster, a roster is just a list of their customers that are eligible to purchase at the price of their membership. Right, so they've got a roster, a list of customers that are that they are said that are on their own part of their membership, and they need to send that to the manufacturer. Because what the manufacturer is doing Pfizer, Lily, Johnson Johnson, what they're going to do is they've got a membership team. Right, they come in and say, okay, this GPO is saying that all their members are able to buy off of this contract at this price. And what I'm going to do is I'm going to evaluate these customers. And I'm going to determine what price they're available for I'm the source of truth on this contract. The GPO is this going to be the source of truth on who's on the membership list, and we'll kind of reinforce that as we go. And what happens is, is that the main factor gets that information in what they'll do is they'll manually go look up the hidden database which is the, the identifier database for the industry that says this is your member ID. This is who you say you are, or DA number right if you're purchasing those class to drug, or you're a part of the 340 b program, all of these have identifiers basically that basically say, this is who you are this is your member ID. If you're going to be referenced in this regard.  And those are the identifiers that will identify you. So the main factor goes they look up their identifiers and go okay, I'm going to match up this list yet everybody has an identifier that looks good.  That's what they call a class of trade determination that class of trade determination tells them what price they're eligible for, based on that evaluation that the manufacturer does. Now, once the manufacturer has done that, they then have to send that information over to the wholesale distributor because those are the ones that are that need this information in order to fulfill those orders. The next thing that happens is that manufactured today using EDI. And that happens in a batch process transit transmits it over to the wholesale. And the hope is that they've got all the information correct that they've identified everybody that's eligible, they've identified that they all have an identifier on there, they identify what class of trade it is, and they get that over to the distributor in a timely fashion, before anybody purchases drugs. And what happens is pricing changes membership changes, and all of this has to be kept up to date. And that lack of real time accuracy and alignment between one another that causes the disputes. Now, we get that the wholesale gets that information over. It comes through typically an EDI message, and they're able to say, okay, I'm going to sell to these hospitals at this price. At the end, once they do it, they're going to submit their charge back using another EDI message that says, okay, guys, I've now sold this drug. And this is all the information that, you know, that I'm supplying in order to get my charge back. I'm not going to credit it to me. If it all works well, they get a credit memo issued back to them through another EDI message. So that is what happens today. So this is all manual processing. This is non real time this is EDI emails, and what happens is it leads to kind of a bunch of errors. Because we came up with three different modules to approach this one roster management, meaning that we're going to validate and make sure that everybody identifies their customers with the same identifiers that they're all present that they're all unified and provided unified view for that. The contract communication, we move away from email and EDI, and we go into a peer to peer network, which is real time so as soon as a contract or price or a member is updated on a contract at a manufacturing system, it's immediately made available to the wholesaler. And then lastly, is the claim adjudication, which I actually glossed over. I'm going to talk about that in kind of the new, the new sense claim adjudication is that what we are doing in terms of the wholesaler and when they submit and how they get an automatic credit. I'll walk through that. So, I'll just take a pause really quickly just for the group if there's any questions in terms of understanding the current state or the nature of a charge back. Before I kind of go into the actual. That kind of what we solution for real fast Harris what's a 340 be just elevator. Oh yeah, sorry. So 340 be is, is a, is a designation for hospitals that are underprivileged serving kind of a, their federal response or to provide products to Okay, the less kind of I'm missing the word, but kind of like the underprivileged hospitals right so they get to buy a set of hospitals are designated as serving underprivileged communities underprivileged communities. There you go. And so they get to buy a 340 be pricing which you might commonly hear Tom refer to as penny pricing. What's a penny and penny, penny pricing. So, they get to buy pennies what everybody else is paying dollars for. Right. So, it's a, it's a, it's a, it's an interesting, it's a program that's meant to kind of help serve the under serve community right. But as you can imagine, it's a pretty fun. It's a large financial obligation from the print many, many factors. Okay, got it. Thank you very much. Hey, here's a strategy question, looking over what you had on the, the choir state, I guess we'll call it so pharma and GPO is a new there was this massive costs associated with the whole process. So, I assume that they knew what that was what drove them to finally say, we need to implement technology. Tell me if it's cost, what drove senior management into that. Honestly, I think it was kind of a unique situation where we had that work group together. And I think blockchain was one of those things where I think a lot of the executives probably got a mandate to actually look into it. And say, hey, are we being left behind or as, you know, is the red our other industries taking advantage of this and we're not, you know, so I think blockchain at that point in time a couple years ago had that cash aid that said, hey, we should take a look so we don't get left behind, you know, so we had that working for us. And honestly, we had that working group that was driven by a compliance requirement in the supply chain security act the drug supply chain security act. So, it was just that group going looking at what the power of blockchain should do and seeing that rules could be enforced and they had kind of colleagues, you know, kind of adjacent to them in the chargeback space that's thought, oh, this, this, this might be the place for it right this might be a real business case. And so we kind of pivoted with that working group and that working group it took a lot of time I will tell you. Pharma is a risk averse industry, right they do not gravitate to new technology very quickly, especially something that's unknown like a blockchain network. So there's been a lot of proving ground, I would say, it's taken years to get these folks comfortable to the point where they're going live and scaling at this point, but it is a long arduous. Interesting point. Yeah, okay. And it's not, it is not easy to get former to move in this direction I'll be really very honest with you, I had to do it all over again I probably have a lot less gray hair, you know, but it's a, it's certainly challenging but yeah there was, there was certainly some interest in blockchain and look, I think what happened is, is that the juice was worth the squeeze, right they realize how much revenue is being lost. If you if you take a just a snap at their audits. If you look at a company like JJ and say that they do $15 billion worth of charge backs, when they do their audits. And this is not specific to JJ Eli Lilly or Pfizer 1% of their audit of their of what they paid out could be an error that they should have never paid. Right, but they don't have, you know, the ability or the tools in place to look at every single transaction and scrutinize it without going through that manual effort and that dispute resolution that's super costly. So, if you're doing, you know, $10 billion in charge backs and just 1% of those you pay an error. That's a pretty large number to get after. So, we're able to kind of build this based on the ROI so what we've been effectively able to do to get these folks to really engage is build out that ROI model for them. We do a lot of modeling on terms of, hey, how many charge backs do you have, what is the size of your charge backs what are your error rates, we take that all the way down and provide a business case down to the P&L level of what they could recover. So that is, that is how we've engaged them. Thanks. So, I'm going to make sure I'm not running short on time here so 930. And this is what our network looks like. Okay, so once again, you'll see the GPOs, you'll see the manufacturer, and you'll see the wholesaler. The whole network includes the HIN, DEA and 340B is integrated into our network. So it looks like when you talk blockchain, a manufacturer has a blockchain node, so does a wholesaler, so does a GPO, but we also have nodes for these identifiers. And the reason for it is this, is that the GPO is now going to publish their roster, and they're going to say, hey, these are my members and this is who I believe is eligible for these contracts. I'm going to send it to the manufacturers and the wholesalers, but what is happening here before that data gets into the network is that it is doing simple rules. I could say is at least one identifier present for each one of your members, because without that we can't really conduct any transactions, right. So we, it's checking and says, hey, one identifier is present, then it says, okay, if it's a HIN one, let's check with the HIN and make sure that it's still up to date, that this is not expired, you know, or dormant or has changed, for example. So it's doing that, the network is doing that check for you, and it gives back the GPO the validation that says, okay, everything looks good, that data can flow through the network. If it doesn't look good, it stops it at the GPO's doorstep, right.  You need to go and add identifiers, make sure that system will make sure that those identifiers are valid. So that's the source of truth with the GPO, that's where we try to solve that problem, is to make sure that they're the ones responsible for adding those identifiers. Now that information makes it over to the manufacturer. The manufacturer, typically was going in and having to research manually and find out, are these valid data, do I go to these three different databases, I'll have to go to Google and do an address search before I say hey, that roster looks good, so that my team can go in and then assign eligibility to this within my internal revenue management system. So today, now we've automated that, so we've automated that work, the manufacturer no longer has to do that, the GPO is the source of truth, they're pushing that data in, now they've got a clean roster, it's matched up against those identifiers. What they'll do is they'll say, all right, I'm going to add them to my customer master, but now I'm going to determine eligibility based on my business rules, you know, do I believe they're a hospital, what am I going to assign, what contract and pricing eligibility am I going to assign that to. That gets done in the revenue management system, but instead of communicating it through EDI, it's through our peer to peer network. Now, the peer to peer network again is doing a couple things, it is doing a validation, it is making sure again that all those identifiers are there enough to date. It's making sure that that minimum contract information is there that there's a contract identified that it's a valid contract that the start and date of the contract aligns with the pricing start and end dates within the contract that's embedded within there. So it's kind of a much smarter way to make sure that all of that data that would be needed in order to conduct a successful charge back is actually present. So it's doing all of those checks, it can do 12 to 25 different kinds of validations depending on what rules that we've set up, but that rule is set up in order to make sure that all of that data, a complete set of data is then transmitted to the wholesaler through the peer to peer network in real time. So if any pricing has changed, or if any members have fallen on or off, their eligibility has changed, whether they're getting hospital pricing or pharmacy pricing, it's transmitted to them in real time. Now the wholesaler at this point has all the complete information in order to complete a successful charge back, right? So they've got the IDs are present and they know they're good, they've been validated, they have a unified view, the contracts are coming over in real time. They know what pricing those customers were eligible for, they know what contracts they were eligible for. So hopefully they've now used all that information. So when they submit a charge back, they're also going through a validation check. The blockchain here is actually doing the adjudication and saying, okay, Mr. Distributor, you're submitting a claim. If you submit a claim without a valid contract, it's not going through. The claim factor is never going to see it because I'm blocking it. I'm doing the validation. If you're submitting it outside of your submission window, if you don't have a member ID present, or if that member ID is no longer valid, or if that member ID was not valid at the time of purchase for that eligibility, it's enforcing those rules. So those rules, if they're met, it's great. It goes through. The charge back is done. The blockchain in our world actually issues a credit memo. So a credit memo is then instantly issued to the wholesaler. And they know that that money is going to be coming in for them and they can account for it in their P&L. So what we've done here is we've tried to identify the source of truth, right? Sort the truth for members or GPOs, contract and eligibility are the manufacturers and the distributors get a complete set of information in order to conduct a successful charge back transaction. So that is what we have kind of established in the network and the solutions that our customers are using today. So if I didn't mention, you know, I would say the leaders in this are folks like Sencora, Amerisource Bergen, Cardinal Health from the distributor side, FFF, a smaller supplier, sorry, specialty distributor, and folks like Pfizer, Johnson & Johnson, Eli Lilly, those newer folks that have just joined like Lupin, Sipla. So we've got, you know, kind of a who's who of the pharma industry. I believe eight of the top 20 pharma manufacturers, the largest distributors and group purchasing organizations like Premier, MHA, and Vision are involved. So really an industry movement, really moving us towards automation. And what we believe is the right application of blockchain to the right business case. Cool. Hey, here's Tom Klein here, quick. Yeah. I mean, you know, or maybe at question time, if you could talk a little bit more about how that sausage got made, I mean, you know, just speak to your gray hairs there. I'm sure they all didn't say, oh yeah, hallelujah, let's all get together and let's all do this. So maybe a little bit, again, not now, maybe later at questions, how that went from one and the spark generated and how they all came together, et cetera. So a lot of the governance kind of stuff there. Sure, sure. I'm happy to answer some of that. No, I'll kind of go go through a couple of these things just quickly with you that might answer some of this stuff. Right. What, what was challenging is, is that this, this charge backs kind of crosses a multiple functions, right, there's master data management, which is a separate team and an organization in these big pharma companies, there's the finance guys. And then there's the guys that are actually that they literally the VP of contract and charge back mansion. Right. So we've got to bring all these teams together. And part of the magic of bringing the work group together was truly getting them to align with their trading partners, right around, you know, why are we doing this is it, you know, increased profitability. Is it, you know, the rate of return is it eliminating, you know, the $30 million that are sitting in dispute for Cardinal every single day. Or whatever that number might, might, might be. And we were able to kind of align on the ROI of this. And what you'll see is that we, you know, we anchored around the distributors. Right. So it was this industry, you know, if the distributors are the ones saying guys, we've got a problem here. Let's get together to solve it they've got the kind of the power to tell their suppliers how they want to conduct charge backs. And so when they when we got together, it was it is really anchored by the distributors, you'll see that, you know, for example, Cardinal has sent out a supplier letter saying hey guys, this is where we want to conduct charge backs. This is the mutual benefit of being in this network, the farm and manufacturers, you know, they, they, they benefit because you could be doing unapproved charge backs, you're involved, you have 4% error rates with us. We're always in dispute, we're always settling, we're always writing something off. Here's an opportunity to leverage, you know, a technology to kind of bring our partnership and our customer service level up a level. So that was kind of what was driven to it, but I'll I'm going to go back to the page Tom and show you who was involved. So, to this day we conduct a working group. Right. And so every quarter we do a face to face but on every bi weekly, this working group gets together, and they continue to hash it out. So it is taken years, years for them to kind of agree on on a unified protocol. Right. So if you can imagine, you know, making the sausage is pretty ugly when you know you get a supplier in the room and you, they finally figure out how a wholesaler sees their data, or how it gets into their back end systems, and they realize, you know, and that's what I think is our the special sauce is our working group is that they realize that they just look at the world through completely this right. No, no perspective for the other person's business. And this working group has been kind of that mechanism that brings them together, they align in terms of inter company processes, which they've never been able to do before. It is seriously, seriously labor intensive. But through that working group, we were able to build the consensus around how they would, you know, how they all would want to see what how they would want to see a unified set of data. How they could all see customers through the same lens, how they could all see a contract through the same lens, you know, how they could leverage technology because then you can imagine there's a process component to this right. When are they going to send it how many, how often are they going to send it what data are they going to exchange with one another. All of that had to be defined in order for this network to come to life and to as on October 24 and 25, Sincora Amerisource Bergen is hosting the next face to face work group for us. And there's about 72 people across the industry that's going to be represented and that includes visiting it premier. This is from the MHA from the GPOs from the manufacturer side it's folks like Jay and Jay Pfizer engine, you name it the Nova Nordus, all of them will be in attendance, and obviously the wholesalers are in attendance Cardinal Amerisource Bergen FFF and they are Sincora is hosting this meeting in order to kind of encourage the adoption of the network for their suppliers and making sure that the the industry kind of knows the commitment and the movement so it'll be interesting because the kickoff of the work group will be Cardinal and Amerisource Bergen both kind of standing up and saying guys we've done a lot of work on this we're scaling and we need you guys to come into the network. So that it is, it is long it's labor intensive, but it served us well. But again, I'll tell you taking years, years and years in order to build that level of consensus to in terms of protocols collaboration data exchange, not no easy task. Good, thanks for that background there and the group purchasing organizations there. How involved where they sounds like as more distributors were trying to drive it and then manufacturers maybe the GPOs were kind of a, hey, we'll come along eventually. No, so I would say, you know, Premier has would be the group purchasing organization that's been there from the beginning, MHA was a very early participant, Vizient has got involved later on. They've been involved for the past year or so, not as early as Premier. So I would say, from a group purchasing organization, Premier's fingerprints are all over this thing. But certainly it was always, we always had GPOs incorporated into the network. I will say, but, you know, the focus in terms of growing the network is focused on manufacturers. Yeah. Okay. Thanks. So I'm happy to do questions at this point. I know we're right, right at that 945 mark. I know we started with questions, but happy to answer any questions the group might have. Again, keep in mind, I'm not blockchain technical. So I can't go down to that, that level, but I could speak to probably any questions you guys have about the business, the business case and the solution. So here's, this is Jeff again, just wondering from a support cost standpoint, how do you, for the metro network, how do you allocate out those costs? There's some usage fees that you don't have a crypto, there's a gas fee to use it. How do you, who pays for what to keep the network going or in the future with enhancements? Yeah, so we operate basically as a SAS software platform, right? So very similar with every participant, every GPO wholesaler and manufacturer pays an annual fee to participate in the blockchain. So kind of like a SAS business model is what we employ. Okay. The other question I had around this is, I'm also now looking at the success of the blockchain and beginning at other parts of their business to deploy blockchain for other parts of the business so far that our paper based and so forth and so on. For example, there's an extra shipment of materials for manufacturers all the way to the hospital. So a number of different use cases that we are looking at in terms of roadmap, you know, I think our first thing is there's actual rebates, right? There's another, there's charge back and the rebates they act a little bit differently. Kind of rebates is like more around the volume based discounts. So that would be another protocol that they're very interested in kind of solving for that has very similar issues and needs as charge backs. There's additional longer term work, you know, there's been a lot of interest in kind of addressing the PBM issues that they see within their supply chains in terms of financial transactions. So we're kind of focused on supporting additional financial transactions that would be appropriate for the platform, but we have had a couple of discussions that are very early stages where people have been discussing, you know, the role of a PBM and kind of the role of the PBM and the financial transactions and how, you know, a blockchain protocol might be able to kind of bring some efficiencies to that process. So not very early stage, but though that is one of the places where we've seen a lot of interest. Okay, thanks. Is there anybody else has any other questions out there? Feel free to ask. This is Alicia Noel again. I'm curious, not from a metallager perspective but from a chronicle perspective. Are you looking at working with other industries for adapting this type of charge back program for other industries where there is where there are a lot of charge backs whether that be the fashion industry or food and agriculture. You can see a lot of other use cases for this type of system. Yeah, we have certainly kind of looked at that in terms of a longer term kind of potential for the platform. There are other industries, semiconductor for example, that operate in a very similar manner. Med surge health systems is kind of the natural growth path for us. So we've definitely started to look at health systems and bringing them into the network. But in terms of different verticals. Yes, we do believe that this could be applied. The first thing that on our mind was we kind of noticed this in the semiconductor world that there was also a very large similar pain point with similar processes but again, Alicia, it could be, you know, several verticals that this could apply for it. You are, you are correct. Thank you. Anyone else. I don't see any other. This is Jeff again, I don't see any other questions. So everybody's time. Yeah. Again, thanks for the presentation. Very interesting. Okay. Blockchain technology is used in business scenarios. So, again, thanks for this. Last call for questions. Otherwise, will everybody go. Again, thanks Harris. Thanks Julie. Thank you guys. Hopefully, hopefully that was informative and an interesting kind of application of actually seeing a business case for blockchain. So, appreciate everyone's time. If there's any questions, I'd be happy to answer background later on. Please, please feel free to reach out, but really appreciate everyone's time this morning. Great. Thanks everyone. Thanks everyone.


Duke has got the fastest growing parts within Apache that they've ever seen, even over the web server, back in the day. What are you seeing out there that's projects like, that's got real growth, thermal energy. Well, we're definitely seeing huge traction and interest in the big data dynamic caching stuff. If you go over to the Java 1 booths today, walk around the booths at the exhibit floor and you'll see that all of the big data players have mad traction at the booths. I mean, they just got big traction. More so than your framework guys, more so than some of the more tool-y utility type of people. I mean, look, they're all getting bad traction. Is that because it's real or is it just because it's new? I think it's because everybody's boss said you better go to the show and find out. Figure out what it is. I gotta roll. But guess what? Take it from here. Thanks, John. Thanks for hanging in. Thanks for chatting with you. Sorry, I split so fast. But it is getting big traction. The other thing is, for us, is the lightweight. It's got to be very, very light. Tomcat had so many great things about it, so many attributes, but the biggest one was lightweight. So as we take application server to that level and make it that lightweight, it's almost a no-brainer. So you're talking about the interest in big data. You're talking about ElastiCache specifically? Well, we're primarily focused on ElastiCache from a Red Hat perspective right now, from a product perspective. But our goal is not to be exclusive of that. If you look at what OpenShift is doing, they're working with a number of the NoSQL players like Mongo and other players like that. So on the cloud side, we're starting to really develop some strengths in the ecosystem there. But from a product perspective, definitely on ElastiCache. Well, and you guys, it was about a year ago, you threw your hat into the pass ring, right? Last summer? What do you mean, when we announced the pass? The platformers of service? Yeah, when we announced OpenShift for a pass, we announced that in, well, we formally announced it in May at JBoss World and Red Hat Summit, but it was an acquisition we made last year. Right, right, that's right. And so, let's talk about that a little bit. It's a crowded field. Yeah. I mean, Microsoft is there, you guys are there, Google is there, Amazon, VMware, just announced Cloud Foundry, that's where we get a lot of talk anyway. So help us squint through that. What's going on there? What are customers doing with pass? How real is it? How do you guys differentiate? Let's talk about some of those things. Sure, sure, sure. Well, let's start with how real is it? We think it's very real. It's, in a lot of ways, has the same attraction that Open Source had all those years ago. I'm a developer, I need to get my job done. I want to be productive. How do I be productive? Well, it used to be I'd download a project, put it on my machine, start coding. Now it's, I don't need to put it on my machine, I can just run it in the cloud. I can do a git push, put an app out there from my IDE and start using it and testing it. We're seeing... OGLLs? Yeah, that's simple, right? So it's really, so we think that's very real, it's very attractive. But that said, it's a pretty crowded field and how are we differentiating, what are we doing? Well, the first thing we did was we were the first pass to ship an EE stack, right? So we came out with a J Boss and put it in the pass and, you know, we announced that in August. So we were number one in that list and came right out swinging with it and that's gotten really a lot of attraction because what we saw was PHP and Ruby, big time in pass, no Java. So how do we accelerate Java in the pass, which is a big goal for us, was to put our mainline project out there, which is AS7, so. In terms of what we see going out there, we're seeing so many unique cases. So our typical customer, right? From a subscription standpoint, is like an enterprise place, like, you know, a Geico or New York Stock Exchange, those are all customers of ours. But when you go back to Paz, we're seeing like services companies come to us say, you know, this is my new prototyping platform. I go to a customer and I want to build a solution. I'm going to start here in the Paz and build it. That way I can minimize my investment and get the customer what they want and then if they like it, they can either bring it on premise because it's running on our application server or they can upgrade it to our more management-friendly options like Flex. So these services companies are flocking to it and really getting some good use out of it. Now what we're starting to see is other organizations come to us and starting to talk to us about it because they're very large and they're almost like services companies within IT. So it's starting to kind of become this shared services. It's like what the vision was all those years ago when they started talking about hosting and all that other stuff 10 years ago, right? It's finally coming together. And you mentioned trying to get Java traction going within your environment. How's that going? And what about PHP and Ruby and other development environments? How are you guys handling that? So, well, let's just start with when we put OpenShift out there, the goal was to support everybody, right? So it started with PHP and Ruby so there was no problem with that. The Java traction was is that we had seen an opportunity in the market to take advantage of that. So we did and we obviously have a great job application service. Why not? So we're not pushing one over the other so much. However, we obviously want people to do it. You're not saying here's Python, you got to write to it. Yeah, exactly. But yet, when VMware announced Cloud Foundry, it says we are the first to essentially do what you just described. Was that just BS marketing? No, no, I wasn't BS marketing. We were the first to do it with the spec. They're the first to do Java as a general sense with Spring. We were the first to do E6. So that was our goal and that's what we set out to do was to stick with the spec. Now, if the nice part about AS7 is if you got a little bit of Spring code, you can put on AS7 and it works. So we're not just, you know, EE was the announcement, right? But the story is Java in the Cloud and that's what we're trying to push. There's a lot of players out there, but so far so good. We're getting good traction with it. Yeah, good. So put on your, you know, take your telescope out. Tell me what you see in this whole application development field over the next five years. What's the environment going to look like? How's it going to be different? Well, first off, you know, it's going to be huge in terms of the SOA stuff. We haven't even hit the, we haven't even hit the tip of the iceberg with applications because what'll happen is is that as we move towards the Cloud, people are going to start to consume these services. Service oriented architecture's really made for the Cloud. So that's really exciting. It was finally here. Well, no, a lot of people have taken, I think it lowers the barrier to consumption. That's what it really comes down to. If you were a big company, you had a SOA already, right? But if you were maybe a mid-sized company or whatever, maybe it was too expensive, you know, or the migration was too much. With the Cloud, you kind of have that built into it, right? And the reason you're going to need that is because of security, because of your data's going to live in multiple places. It's because, you know, you're going to have issues with things like wanting to buy for multiple Cloud providers. You might not want to put all your eggs in one basket. Just like, you know, put all your eggs in one hardware. Build your own Cloud stack. You're going to build your own stack, right? And then what's going to happen is over time, long term, you're going to see somebody's going to have a full stack. And, you know, they're going to migrate to that. And that's, you know, where the battle will be fought. The big vendors are being a little bit more cautious about this. We're kind of in between. We're not a startup. We're pretty big, you know, a billion dollar company. So we're being a little bit more aggressive. And I think that's going to work out pretty well for us. Excellent. All right. Well, listen, Jason, I really appreciate you coming by, taking time out of your busy schedule all over across the street. And you're a great guest. We'd love to have you back on. Great. Well, we'd love to have you at the show. I'm in Boston. Oh, OK, us too. And maybe we'll have you come out in June. Absolute lifelong.