I know, but just in terms of, well, I don't know, let me see if Kim, Kim, or I unfortunately have a hard stop at 6 30. Okay. That's fine. Let me too. I started it live. So that just means it's recording. So also I'm hoping that that will show us if there's like anybody now. Okay. No, there's only the six of us here. No, I know, I know a checked, but I just texted Kim. I tried the link at first and nothing happened, but then I went back in and tried it again and here I am. So maybe people are having trouble with that link. I don't know. Wait, Chris, are you on the club and where are you? I am in the Yellowstone, uh, Yellowstone Lake here. Nice, but I'm not really there. I'm just there in my dreams. Beautiful place. Big thing. Maybe we should all choose virtual backgrounds to see what we think. See, I like Tracy's. It goes with her sweater and it looks very nice until you have to shovel. That's true. Let's see. What do you, I went to a coffee cart. Yeah, that's good. Yours is in a different country, isn't it? Yeah, that's Denmark. Denmark looks nice. I used to have a roundabout. And then I had a virtual conference last week. I had lots of transportation background. So, but now we have a quorum-ish. You do. Great. Okay. Well, let me, um, since Kim is here in spirit, let me, uh, I'll, I'll say those things. Hold on. Let me find that. So, I mean, so what is, what, what is the council saying about how long virtual meetings are extended for? Is that a? So the council will stay virtual until the third, then they're going to have their first organizational meeting on the third. Got it.  The new council. It is determined that everybody else is probably going to stay virtual. Well, yeah. So I met with the town manager the other day and he was asking if virtual is good or not good. I mean, I think it works fine. It's convenient. I mean, you don't have to drive. You don't have to bike and it's easy if you have to multitask or take care of kids. And I mean, it's not so great for attendees. But you know what? I think it's actually pretty good for attendees, um, in terms of like the planning board, we get a lot more attendees now than we used to because, you know, people didn't want to come out at night. But sure. Last night, over 40 attendees in addition to, you know, the regular people who came there. So that was pretty good. And I don't think they would have come. No, for sure. I agree with that part, but I think it's hard as an attendee, just, um, you know, if you don't know who else is in the room and that kind of thing, like, so the town manager here brought up a, what if you were watching on Amherst media or something? That's true. Then it would be the same experience. But, you know, if you are in person, at least, you know, who else is there, at least in person. And so, um, that's the part I always sort of miss, you know, particularly if there's a six hour council meeting or whatever. And you end up having to message your friends and be like, Hey, are you there? No, I'm there. Are you going to talk now? You know, it's just like, so it is. I do kind of miss that camaraderie a little. And it would make a huge difference in Zoom webinar if they ever allowed the attendees to see who are the other attendees, just to even know that, like, people are present, you know, as you're saying, Chris, like, as an attendee, an attendee wouldn't even know that there were 40 people present unless the chair or somebody on the planning board said, Oh, by the way, there's 40 people present. Yeah, I think, um, Doug Marshall usually does that because he wants to know who's going to speak. So he says, well, there are 40 people present. How many people of you want to, you know, make public comment and, um, so anyway, so that's the way they find out. All right, I can read the statement Kim, unless you want it. Oh yeah, I was going to say we should start and I, I have it. I pulled it up. So it says pursuant to chapter 20 of the acts of 2021. This meeting will be conducted via remote means members of the public who wish to access the meeting may do so via Zoom or telephone, no in-person attendance of members of the public will be permitted and every effort will be made to ensure that the public can adequately access the proceedings in real time, theological, technological means. So I guess at this point, we all just say I, that we're all here. So we have four of us and hopefully Marcus will join us at some point. He's, he's the one with little kids. Nobody else has little kids, little kids who are needy. So, um, okay. Kim, do you want to? Yeah, so we just called this meeting to order and are there any announcements? No. And comments from any of us who might want to be public. If there's anyone, any other public. And so the first agenda item is approval of the minutes. Oh, right. I was supposed to send those around again. Okay. I will move. We approve the minutes of October 7th and November 4th, 2021. Yes. Any, any other, any, any further comment before we vote on the minutes? I just have a quick word change under each pleasant street sidewalks. Number four and B, Community Preservation Act funding would not apply here. I thought maybe saying since the sidewalks are in the public way, instead of here are the sidewalks are in the public way, I think that our needs to come out airy and just change it to sense. Yes. Since. Yes. Right. I see what you're saying. Since the sidewalks got it. Yep. Okay. Hi, Marcus. Hi, Marcus. Hey, Marcus. Hey, guys. We're in the middle of discussing the minutes from October 7th and 4th, if you have any comments. Now is the time to do so. No, no comments. Okay. I have one more comment for page two. Yes. Under eight. Lincoln Avenue is going to close at the end of this small fall semester. Do we want to say one section is going to close? It's not the whole street's going to close. That's correct. We could make that clarification. Okay. I believe it's closing effective December 20th. Is that correct? Guilford. The parking lot is closing December 20th, the one adjacent on the corner of Mass Ave and Lincoln. Do we want to specify what section is closing like one block at the university end is closing or? Yeah, yeah. So, so Guilford is it closing at Fearing? Is that where it's going to be closed? Closing at North Hadley Road. Okay. Between North Hadley Road and Mass Ave. So North Hadley Road is that little diagonal road that runs next to Southwest between sort of like Sunset and Lincoln. Well, not really next to, but yeah. And it closes Monday. It closes Monday the 20th, right? Yeah. Okay. Okay. So all those in favor of the minutes as proposed. Bernie, yeah. Okay, great. That's unanimous. Thank you. Okay. So those minutes are approved. And are you going to discuss the TSO? Yeah, I mean, I'm happy to just, I mean, I had included these items just as old business because there are things that have come before us before and I wanted just to provide quick updates on them. So the TSO recommendations on North Pleasant Street, the changes west to Kendrick Park. I meant to send this around, but today got too busy. But TSO, they did have their public hearing a few weeks ago and they got some good comments. After that, I followed up with them. We had been hoping to have a meeting last week with them. We didn't have quorum, but there were some concerns raised at the public hearing about the idea of the southbound cyclists and how they would be accommodated and where they would be accommodated and what would be the safest. So our original recommendation from TAC was to have the cyclists and the pedestrians who are going southbound as well as of course northbound pedestrians all sort of share a space similar to on University Drive because it seemed like there might not be enough room to have a bike lane, a southbound bike lane in the road.  I think there's nine driveways there exiting, both looking for pedestrians at the driveways, I mean, at the sidewalk and then also at the road. It just seemed like confusing to me and I like to try to minimize those points. And I almost got hit just the other day, not in this area, but walking next to Amherst Coffee where a car was pulling out and as a pedestrian, I was not walking where they were looking as they pulled out and they almost ran me over. Said, oops, sorry. So, I mean, it happened a lot, but there were concerns just about the potential conflicts between cyclists and bikes if everybody is sharing the same space and the importance of having a separated space. Myra Ross from the Disability Access Advisor Committee spoke with the public hearing about that. And so they did get amended slightly. I can pull up the TSO's motion or I can just read it. So what they recommended is that they recommended that, so this was TSO's recommendation from their meeting on December 9th, which they held after the public hearing and then the council voted in favor of this 10 to zero. So they supported changing the traffic flow one way to one way traffic northbound from McLean to Triangle. They supported creating back and angled parking spaces on the eastern side of the street. They supported prohibiting parking on the west side of the street and removing the grass belt on the western side. And then they also included some following conditions, including having a complete streets approach to maximize bicycle and pedestrian safety and use, including considering a separate southbound bike lane for cyclists. And then also consulting with the Disability Access Advisor Committee on the placement and the number of accessible spaces. And the question about the parking regulations and how many will be permanent and how many will be metered and stuff is not yet addressed, but that will be continued at a later time. I mean, the main thing was to focus on the design. So that's what I got out of that. So, I don't know, Guilford, you were there too. Did you have anything to add in those? You're muted, Guilford. I don't want you to hear all the furnace noises going on in my office. Oh, it's that one. Yeah, I was wondering, I started to look around. Every once in a while it rumbles. I thought I got rid of the mice down here. I had a dorm room like that. It was crazy, but. So I was looking for the actual motion. I haven't found it yet, but that's pretty much what they said. I have a motion, Guilford. I can email it around to the attack members just so everybody has a copy. But that's what the council said. I mean, so one thing that didn't come up in the motion is just in terms of shifting the street to the West like in order to accommodate the trees. I didn't see that anywhere in the motion. But I'm assuming, Guilford, that the DPW will still be looking at that, right? Yes, we'll probably set it aside for a couple of months, but yes, we'll probably try to have something finished up by construction in the construction season. And do you think, so some of this, like with adjusting the parking, that would probably be able to be done next season, right? Even if some of the other parts aren't in, I guess.  To accommodate the back-end parking. So you've got to remove that grass strip first, I'm assuming.  I guess it depends on the angle that the angle parking is, but it just doesn't seem wide enough to have. I think we'd have to go out and measure it. Well, I was walking in that vicinity the other day, and I noticed that there were a lot of people at the park in what, you know, with little kids. And what I noticed that they were doing is they're parking in the permanent parking spaces on the far side of the road. And so it seems like that's not being that enforced right now. And I guess there'll probably be less kids there in the middle of winter and so on. But it seemed like, you know, just to try to set that up for like the parking as soon as we can or whatever, just because the park will get used come April, come May or whatever, so. There definitely seems to be some group that's like has made it an informal meeting place for kids and families. And there's a certain time of day when it's just like chock full of people and it's really interesting to watch. Okay, we can't hear you. Didn't you say a priority is putting in the crosswalks on McClellan? Like, is that going to happen soon? That actually now has to all go together because it's quite a bit that has to be rearranged in that area to make it all fit. But hopefully we'll get it in next construction season. Just one thing, because, you know, the sidewalk that just ends at a curve, I wonder if you could, if there's any way, because that's totally the only way to access it, the park, if you're in a chair. Now is from the other side of the road where there actually aren't parking spaces. I wonder if there could just be some kind of temporary thing at least right there where the cur, you know, where the new, the new thing comes and it just comes to a curb and then it just stops right there. So, Kim, are you talking about, it's just north of McClellan, where there's like a paved area and then it, but doesn't that connect into the path? Doesn't that connect to the. Yeah, it's part of the path. That goes through the park, which is right. And on that, on that East pleasant side of the road, there are curb cuts.  And then, and then into the, into the park, but that the path just ends like, and it doesn't have, you know, it ends at a, at a curb. And then there's a curb there.  No, it doesn't really run along that side of north pleasant that much. It seems. Well, but it ends there. Oh, it just, I just wonder if there's a, for sure. Simple solution of just like putting little paving or something right where the sidewalk is. Just for as a temporary solution. We can look at it. Thanks. Yeah. When I was also thinking about. On North pleasant street, just, you know, as I was walking by, right? That the driving school that they use. Those metered spaces for like, there to practice parallel parking and things like those are, that's all going to go away. Right. And I think they actually even use that. On the road test. That's so the registry. No, of course they will. Somebody had mentioned to me though, that. If you change the route for the road test. I mean, this is not our concern, of course, but if you change the route for the road tests, like it has to be re-approved by the. R&B or something. They didn't give. Yeah, they do. They give road tests in Amherst. Yeah. Yeah. That you don't have to wait for like 90 days to get it at the army. And also you're doing it in the vehicles. That you practice in and on the streets that you practice on. And. Yeah. They do it a lot on the weekends. Yeah. Just in case you wanted to do it. It's a detailed work for the officer. So they get the detail pay. Versus. Versus. Yeah, they do. They give road tests in Amherst. Yes they do. They do it as a convenience to their students. So it's a detailed. Detail pay versus. Versus regular pay. So. Ah, sweet deal. Which are you talking about the R&B people? Yes. Oh, the ones here are the driving instructors. Oh, are the driving examiners. Yeah.  I'm a licensed driving instructor with a nuts. Oh, I know. Okay. Okay. So that was all about that. So I mean, one thing interesting is that, you know, I was looking, I mean, one of the reasons I had originally proposed having it off the street level in addition to the conflicts is I just wasn't sure how much, how much room we have on the street. Like with all these different things we want to do, including shifting the road, having the back end, saving the trees, everything. But one thing I was reading about. And. And I was at this virtual conference that I was helping to host, like with mass DOT last week, there was a session about counterflow bike lanes, but there's also this thing called like bike. Bike streets or something. It's where, and they do it more in Europe. And where you, you make the car traffic one way, but the bike traffic can actually be two ways. Sorry. Yeah. I think Eve's in the audience. Can you. Oh yeah, let's let her in. Can you let her in? Yep. Great. Thank you, Kim. She's not moving yet. There she is. She's here. Takes a while to move over. Thanks y'all. So anyway, so I, I, I mean, I thought that was just an interesting concept. Like I think if you have a very traffic calm road, you're going to be able to do that. I think that would be an option. But it hasn't been done. It's been done in Cambridge and Somerville and some parts of Eastern Mass. It hasn't really. But we still need the space. No, you still need the space, but the idea is just that like the level of car traffic, like drops so much. That it's basically like a bike boulevard. And I mean the cars are mainly there just to park for the park. You'd have to have like a permanent barrier or some, you'd have to have a permanent barrier. You'd have to have a permanent barrier. You'd have to have a permanent barrier. Like bike lanes. No, I mean, the idea is that you don't, you don't have a barrier Marcus, but. Oh, okay. I mean, is it, but. Yeah. I'm not sure we're ready. I'm not sure we're ready for that. Yeah.  That would be really good because it's just, you know, there's a number of. There's going to be a number of. Sorry. There's a number of ways to get in and out of, and then there's all the traffic going in, backing in and everything. Oh, I agree. I agree. I mean, now that's, yeah, that's one of my concerns about the counter flowing too. Okay. I'm much prefer going through the, through. Cause there's a beautiful new sidewalk on East pleasant. If I'm heading into town from UMass, I always go on the East pleasant. The sidewalk, everything there is so nice. And it takes just as much time as going on. North pleasant on that little. It's quicker. It's actually not. And so I, yeah, I, because, because of those issues, because the sight lines are so bad. I choose not to go that way. But I think it will help a lot when there's no parking on that side too. But you're right. I mean, I mean, still the cars are not going to be coming out of those driveways, which mostly your students are not going to be looking in the. The right direction. Right in the correct direction. Yeah. True. But yeah, so at the council meeting, it was interesting. So one person. Kathy Shane brought up, she really thought that it should be. One way going southbound and not northbound, but. But the reality, right? Is we know that like some people are trying to avoid, including trucks are trying to avoid the roundabout by cutting down there. And we want to really decrease it as much as possible. We don't want it to be a cut through street. Even though, I mean, I think. Yeah. So. And the other. What it's going to be. The other thing is she also asked if it could be like. It's banned. Like you would ban on the north end. If you would ban left turns. But like we've talked about how you could, if the traffic is really bad, you just go to the roundabout and come back out, but there's so many times of day. And when UMass is an in session and stuff that people can turn left, it's not an issue. So I really wouldn't support having a ban there all the time. Cause it would be really inconvenient for like all these times that it's fine. No, it's not. It's never. It's not really. Turning left there is not really a problem. There are other places it's worse to turn left. That's for sure. Yeah. And if you start putting in like between these hours, then. It just gets confusing. It gets confusing. And yeah, exactly. The one other thing that came up, I mean, it's come up before the council a few times and Andy Steinberg has talked about it.  That would be like a big, a big, big structure. And that really that why hasn't that council or even, even just with a lot, why hasn't the. Town ever looked more at rerouting the traffic. Like on North Prospect street and Hallich to be in the opposite direction. So that you would like that instead of North. Prospect street being South bound. It would be like North bound. And then it would also be. That would be something to watch like with the park as well. Like if they do that, right? Cause then it would come out right at the park. And that would actually encourage more people to cut on that street. To like, anyway, so. Okay. So that was all the updates I had on that. If there's anybody else had anything on that. And then just as, you know, I just wanted to provide a quick update. I just wanted to make a quick update on. On just primary village. And that the, you know, Gopher had presented the 25% design to the council. And it seemed like the 25% design. It just focused mainly on. Reducing the number of parking spaces that are eliminated on the corner properties. And things. And so it doesn't seem go for yet that. At least at the 25% that. The, the. The, the, the. The. The. The rapid rectangle flashing beacons and all those things are there, but they would be there. When you come back, I guess. At the 75% and it comes back to the council and DAC and stuff. Did you have anything else. Add on that. So is there a timeframe for that? No. Okay. Hopefully it's in January, but there's no real timeframe. And so we would get the work starting this year or this coming year, I should say, on the actual putting of the roundabout in. It actually has to be done. Yes, it has to start this year. Okay. Yeah, cool. This calendar year, the Pomeroy Village Intersection. It has to start in 2022. Oh, it has to start in 2022. Okay. The fiscal year of 2022. Like calendar year 2020. Got it. Okay. Got it. I mean, once the work starts, like the actual construction work, like how long does a project like that totally take? Well, Mass Highway will give you two years to do it, but we're hoping to just do it in a year. Yeah. Okay. Preferably over the summer or, you know, I don't know. So, okay, great. Great. The last item I had, just because we had talked about this at our own meetings about the sidewalks and winter clearance. So I just mentioned on the agenda that it's on the GOL's list for bylaw reviews and updates. But then I know we had talked about it just in terms of maybe providing some guidance. And I think too, I attended the DAC meeting the other day and they had been sending letters just about the importance of clearing the sidewalks. So one of the things, and I guess, Bernie, were you on the bylaw review committee? Yeah. So GOL, they, you know, they recently issued their sort of summary of the bylaws that didn't get changed by the bylaw review committee, but that some of them thought there were some bylaws that were considered for additional review. We gave them a pretty lengthy list of what we thought needed to happen. There was stuff. So there was this one about the bylaws related to snow and ice removal. And what the GOL report says is it just says that it's recommended that the snow and ice bylaw in terms of the snow removal is recommended for consideration of future amendments to incorporate the policy of DPW to clear the snow and ice from certain sidewalks and to specify that more. But I guess one of the questions is like, I mean, Gilford, what we've heard from you is that you will go out and as a courtesy, if it's a plowable event, you will go out and your team will go out and plow those sidewalks. But if it's not a plowable event, you won't clear them. So it doesn't take away the responsibility from like the adjacent property owners to ever do anything in terms of clearing them. And sometimes too, like somewhere I was walking recently, I mean, they can get really icy too. Yeah, after you've gone through with the plow, I think we need to be clear on the fact that the town is providing a one-time service, but it doesn't preclude you, the property owner from any liability or, you know, any work too. And continued responsibility, like as if it ice is over or anything like that. So I mean, this isn't before the TAC yet, but it was on the GOL list, you know, now it's winter. I'm hoping that the new TSO will take it up and that, you know, maybe they can come back to us. And I mean, I guess if it's just recommendations, like the kind of language that Mark is just talking about, I don't know whether it would all be incorporated into a bylaw because it's not like sort of legally binding, but or maybe it could even be a policy. It could just be a policy. Problem we had with it. And it's usually classic. I, um, of the four towns I've been involved with in some right way manner of form of governance, no one's come up with a way to ensure that sidewalks get clear. Right. And you get into, you get into battles because there's an area that the DPW may traditionally clear and people believe that that is a ongoing town service. And then you get into other other neighborhoods you want to know. Well, if you can plow such and such a parkway, sidewalk, why can't you plug this plow this way? For sure. Yeah. Yeah. It's, you know, it snows in New England. People need to clear it off. And sometimes they do. And sometimes I think Gilbert and his crew should just come and plow my sidewalk specifically. Well, I think I told you that I lived in the town. I worked in the planning department there and they had mandated that people shoveled the sidewalk in front of their house. And so one of the counselor, the town counselors there, they actually, there was a big picture on the paper of them ripping up the sidewalk in front of their house that they didn't have that responsibility. Oh my God. That town will remain nameless, but that was the response to such a mandate. Even down in Virginia, we were required to clean your sidewalk off in 24 hours. But in the UK, there isn't anything like that. So it's, I mean, but it is an accessibility issue. And as we talked about with the bus, buses too. So, I mean, hopefully that can be something, you know, if we're going to write up, if we're going to write up a memo for TSO, I'd like to write something up maybe we could ask them to look more at that. Because I think like along Pine Street is a problem because they'll plow the sidewalk sometimes prior, well, while they are doing the roads. And so then it just gets on and then nobody bothers with it. And it just becomes a, an icy nightmare. Yeah. Yeah. No, and I've actually talked like every winter since the sidewalk one, and this is outside of Amherst, but the route nine sidewalk like through Hadley that goes to the Hampshire mall, like every winter, it's been three winters so far, this will be the fourth winter. I've talked to Senator Cunningford and the representatives and the DPWs from Hadley and, and also district two, like every year. And Hadley says it's not our job, it's a state road. And district two says it is your job. And, and then the people at the mall say we don't need to clear the mall owners. Hampshire mall says nobody actually walks to the mall. And so yeah, it's like no, they actually walk to the mall all the time. And the other thing that happens is that, right, I mean, well, one, the snow, what happens is the plows, the contractors who do the plowing, I think part of it is just the cold changing the culture to acknowledge that there's a sidewalk there. But like if you shovel the snow up on the sidewalk, like it takes so much longer to melt. And then some of the adjacent businesses do the same thing. But I'm really hoping that this year will be the year that there's not a complete impasse about that. So, okay. All right, so our main item for agenda for the agenda was just to discuss like our attack priorities, if we wanted to share some of our priorities with the incoming council and with the TSO and also just to think about them ourselves and maybe just put the list out there as a public list. So when I'm thinking about this, I'm thinking one about the project priorities, like in terms of like construction, but I'm also thinking about other priorities that we might want to have on our list, including like one I can think of is just like making sure that the map of the, you know, the preferred bike and ped networks, like our priority networks gets like finished so that we can like publicize that and things like that. Can we just ask first that they actually give us a charge? Well, and so I mean, I did actually meet with the town manager a few days ago. So he is looking at revising the charge. It is his responsibility because we are his committee. It's his responsibility to revise the charge. And some of it was he was looking for guidance from the council about what our charge should be. Initially, I think there was some pushback, like when the council was first created. There were some counselors who were very adamant that stuff shouldn't be going to tack, that they as the keepers of the public way that it should all go to the council. And I think over time, some of that softens. But he's really been looking for the council to provide some of that guidance. So I think that's one reason that we don't have a new charge. But he did say he's going to work on the new charge that he's also going to help with us recruiting new members, which is my six B. But I'll just give you a quick update on that right now. So I mean, currently, right? So like Kim's, Kim's term, her first term or last term officially, like ended last year in mind ended this year. And then the other three members, Marcus, Bernie and Bruce, you're all of your terms. And in the spring, which I guess I mean, of course, you can roll over and continue. I guess Bruce, I think you've been doing this a while. So maybe you might know. But it is really, you know, it is really important to start to pull in additional people. And I talked with him about the concerns that we had raised just about diversifying our committee and so on too. So I mean, what happened to our new guy? Hold on. Well, he hasn't given up, I guess. Okay, good. I'll check in with him again. But I mean, I just remember even when I applied to the TAC it was sort of frustrating. Like you can, you know, you send in the form and you say you're interested and it can be months as, you know, as the office is working on other appointments and like so on. But you don't even hear back. And you don't even really hear like it's not, it's really hard to like even check in and eventually it's like, okay, now you have an interview. So I mean, I'll definitely reach out to hold in and make sure some of us, some of us including a council, a council to have raised the issue of overload in the town manager's office. Oh, definitely. There's Paul has a huge number of direct reports. He's just gained two last council action. And I mean, I've been pretty vocal about and I'm, it's not a knock on Paul. He's a very capable guy. And you go back to when the town was first hiring, you'll find my letter to the select and say, I hear Paul Bach on it. He's good. It took him a while to listen to me, but they eventually got around to it.   And I think council is also coming to the recognition that even though the eye are the keepers of the public way, they need some filters. And some planning in, in, you know, those, those mega hour council meetings are beginning to take their toll. And I think they'll begin to realize, you know, you may, there may be better ways of managing some of the stuff.  But that Amherst, I mean, the advisory committees, like we do have a lot of advisory committees, I know the town has tried to get rid of some, but then we've created new ones. So we actually haven't, I don't think we've actually reduced the number of committees in Amherst so much. So what you were saying, but it seems like, I mean, the council, the council's busy. They're not, they can't be experts at everything. And so I feel like the advisory committees in Amherst can provide like some really valuable help to committees because, I mean, because to join a committee, like you have to show like a certain interest and expertise and things like that and not counselors, counselors can't know everything about everything. And they don't have that time to like study things. So I really see, I mean, we're advisory and so I think it's, you know, we're more of an asset than anything. So I mean, it seems like people have sort of come around and said, Oh, yes, the TAC can do things that are useful. And so that's good. But, but I agree. I mean, I agree that the town manager's office is overload. And I think it's really challenging to with these appointments is like every June, right? I mean, that's when a lot of the appointments end is like, there's like hundreds and hundreds of slots that have to be refilled, or people have to be renewed. So, but he said, you know, he's going to ask the, the Irish people in his office to like work on it too. So, so that's what we can do. And hopefully we will see a new charge sooner than later. So, all right. So can we talk about, so we started the last meeting that we had, which was in November, you know, before the hall before Thanksgiving and so on, like Gilbert had pulled up the longer the list of the overall projects. But what do what do people think if we talk about, you know, maybe, you know, if we, if we want to maybe decide on maybe our like top five priorities in terms of like projects, but then also to some of these other projects that aren't construction, including like I really would like to see that map finished so we can do that. Some of those other priorities. So, does that make sense? In terms of the map, yeah, we've got a GIST program that is looking for internships for master students. So I think that that could be a good, you know, a high quality person to have work on that. We make it a capstone project. So it's like their final year thing. It is. I mean, that's what it would be for them. Okay, cool. It's a one-year professional masters and they have to do a practicum. So, okay. Yeah. Yeah. So they can fix that most and then be done. I don't know. I don't know, Gilbert, would your, Gilbert, would DPW be able to use somebody like that, like a GIS intern to help with some of the GIS stuff? Can't hear you. We could do that. I mean, we actually, next, next semester, we're only going to have one, when we'll have one intern here. That's a, so we could take, we can do use a half two or three. Oh, okay. When you, your other GIS intern had like moved on, right? Yeah. He went to a intern, he went to a co-op position in Washington, D.C. and came back and said, I don't want to do this anymore. Okay. Got a taste of the K Street life. So, so in, so in the town, like in terms of town offices with GIS, so does, does planning do GIS too?  So we have three members of our staff that are really good at GIS. Three planners, not me, but three other planners. And they work with Mike Warner and IT. Right. Yep. Yeah. And Mike does, I know, because Mike supported the DAB. So, okay. So, if this seems possible, so I'm, you know, I'm, I'm speaking now in my actual job hat here. I'm a, I'm in the geography program in the Geosciences Department at UMass. And the GIS T masters program is a big part of what geography is. And the advisor for that program is just sent out a call for projects and practicums, I don't know, a week and a half ago. So I think what it would require is a bit of a mutual conversation about what would be sort of the right level of expectations and support and time. Yeah. And, and what kind of data needs and GIS needs and, and, you know, the advisor as well as the student would probably have to think about if it's the appropriate level and amount of work. So is this a class on top of other classes? It's their final practicum. So it's a one year professional masters. Most of them are now in their second semester. And so they would either do it, they tend to either do their practicum in the spring semester or the summer. So they just do it for credit. Guilford, I think they do like the internship for credit. Yeah, ideally it would be nice to pay them a little bit, but you don't have to pay them a lot. You know, you don't have to pay them a salary. You could pay them a stipend kind of thing. So I guess Mike, I didn't say that correctly. So is this person taking other classes in addition to doing the practicum? Yeah, this spring, yes, they would be taking other classes. If you did it in the summer, then they might, they wouldn't be probably. Okay. So just in terms of availability, right, like if it was like realistically, even if they're taking classes, what is that, like 10 hours a week or 10 to 15 hours a week? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So I think it would be fine. I mean, if they want to, if you want the person to reach out, we can talk a little more. Great. That'd be great. Well, Guilford, you had mentioned too, I mean, just into like our routes, right, even like some of those underlying data layers, right, like that whole plan, like the road layer they use and things that needed editing. Yeah. Maybe of other layers that need editing and stuff. I know when I was a student, a grad student, I spent a whole summer editing GIS layers. And a lot of what these guys are learning is not just mapping, like they're learning spatial data analysis and Python and, you know, they're doing a whole bunch of other interesting stuff. Great. That sounds like that might work out. And Eve, I did send that call for like interns to somebody else, another department today too. So we'll see what works out. Okay. So the last time we were talking, we talked about some of the different projects. So Guilford, are you the keeper of the master list of those? Keeper of my list? Well, you also had our list. I know you have the two lists. And so, I mean, from the time I've been on the TAC, which now I've been on the TAC for two years, we've never like had our own new list. I mean, we've always worked off the list of the requests that came in and so on. Let me see. Why don't you talk about something else and I'll find it. Okay. So I'm going to leave now. I have to work on my budget that is due tomorrow. And I haven't done a very good job of it. So I'm going to go do that. But it was very good to see you and happy holidays. Okay. Take care, Chris. Happy budgeting. Yeah. Okay. So, um, Tracy, I'm a little confused about what the agenda is at the moment. So, as far as priorities go, so we're talking about like what our committee's priorities are. Well, what the, you know, a, we need a charge. I agree with that. That is essential. I think that there's like the two different components of it. Like as I started that conversation, I was trying to break it down. Right. So there's what we talked about at the last time we met is Gilford had pulled up the list, like of all the different projects. Right. And we talked about, for example, like South, the South Amherst Common had sort of like fallen off the radar a little bit because I hadn't never heard about it since I joined the tech, but I know like other people had worked on it before. Yeah. We work a lot. Right. So, just to kind of bring those back. So I mean, you know, the issues are for some of this stuff is the pandemic just changed the traffic. Oh, of course, of course. That's where we work. But I, but I'm, but I guess, I mean, so I guess this was a good question, Kim. So part of it is just if we want to say, you know, as the new council meets, and as the new TSO meets, whoever's going to be on the new TSO and just say, well, hi, we're TAC, and, you know, there's these different projects that have been on our list for a while. And, you know, the ones that are the most important, but I do think about them in charge of the construction priorities, but then also our priorities as a committee, as the things that you brought up with like in terms of the charge and membership, and, and some of these tasks like mapping and things like that, that aren't construction projects. Right. Well, it seemed kind of like messy to put them all together because, yeah, I think, okay.  No, I agree. It feels like two separate like agendas. Okay.  And we have a lot of expertise, and we have a lot of goodwill on this committee. A lot of like people who are thinking, you know, in different ways than have different experiences. And, and we are like, like, we're into streets, and like we're into like everyone using the streets. And, you know, that's what we're about. We're not about, I feel like we're not, you know, we're not biased. We just want like, everyone to be using the streets and everyone to have access. And that's our value that we bring forward. Like, not like about any one particular thing. We're about like it for everyone. So that's what I feel like we bring. And, and we have expertise is like yours on and, and Marcus and Bert, you know, we all have our own, like separate realm that we, we command, right. And together, we're a great force. You know, and, and so what we are, no, it's true. We are. And like, and so like, I feel like we're just a force for good, and we want what's good.  Like, right. We're all like, we're all like geeks. We like what we're doing here. And like, none of you are going to do that stuff. So let us do it. So, and so there's that piece. Like, there's like, here, the PSO is this set of geeks doing this awesome stuff for everybody. And there's like, then there's a specific projects, which it seems like it's like, yes, we should have like priorities, because I think we should get back to that, because that's also like unbiased and just like a way of prioritizing. And I feel like we should get back on these very unbiased kind of like ways of presenting ourselves to the TSO and everyone as for our relevance, you know. Sure. Do we need t-shirts?  So when I was talking to the town manager, right, I mean, we're not, we're very not project specific to like, I think that's part of what you're talking about. Like, we want to improve because our vision. And so, right, when the council is looking at a specific section of street or specific intersection or plan, like they're focused on that. But like one thing with TAC, you know, and its predecessors, it's always been like, it's more of a vision about that we want to create, we want the transportation network and system and Amherst to be safer, more accessible, more equitable, more sustainable, like all of those pieces, right?  Like, we want the network to work. And so, I mean, I think we can share that vision. I mean, some of that is in our charge. You know, we can say that that's what we see as our, you know, our charge and our vision. But I also think, right, I mean, one of the things when I first joined the TAC or even before I had joined the TAC, like I worked with Eve, we had, you know, grad students and others who were helping about just even prioritizing as part of the complete streets plan. Yeah. And I know Guilford still been working with a consultant on that to submit something to the state. And just to come up with a system to say, I mean, because one thing that will happen, right, is that, I mean, there are some new, new councils who have certain ideas about, well, this is a priority for them or and are those projects also going to be priorities for the town? I mean, there's already some linkages that have been identified, like over and over again, similar to Pomroy Village, which has been talked about for redesign for a few decades. And so some of those linkages and projects have been around for a long time. And so some of them don't have funding yet. But we can still say that it seems like from our kind of vision about like, what are the next critical steps? We'd like to see some of those, not that we are rejecting other ones too, it's just like there's limited resources and stuff. And in some case, it doesn't, I mean, we could say, you know, with the new council, maybe it doesn't matter what we say are our priorities, but just from our perspective about, you know, accessibility and things that we feel like these particular sections are really important. Like it came up at our last meeting, that North Pleasant Street section that we've now walked twice, like north of Eastman Lane, like we saw the section, the parts of it that are really bad, right, where there's almost like no sidewalk, and where there's no crosswalks and people are just streaming across the road and for the person got killed and like all these different pieces. So I mean, Gilbert mentioned then, right, that that had been previously identified as one of the priority places for improvements by TAC, that it doesn't have any funding yet. But like, would we want to share that that's one of the priorities as we see them?  Like, I feel like we've, we've thought about this for a long time. And, you know, but, but, and, and maybe publish, you know, saying what our top priority is will be very meaningful. But I worry that if we go down to like, number five, I mean, I wouldn't, I would just say, like, how do we rank that because we don't, we don't have our week, we need to publish our ranking system. I don't think we, but even, but even with the ranking system and even with the state's complete streets plans, like what I've heard from different planners and what I've seen from the plans, is that, I mean, if a, I mean, some of the plans have, you know, a list of like 20 projects or 30 projects or even, I mean, I think into Jeff McCullough down at PVPC, he said he's seen plans that have like 75 projects listed that they're just, they're, they're ones that have been identified. And that, you know, piece by piece, towns start to fund them. But I wouldn't, I wouldn't want us to say like, this is our number one priority. This is our number two, because one, I, I don't think, I'm not sure how much weight our rankings have, but I would say maybe like these are the top five that we're aware of, you know, from past discussions and things, or maybe these are top 10 unranked or something.  I don't know. But we're advisory. So we're not really making the choices. I don't, I don't know. I mean, and I mean, I think people will like the town, you know, the town staff will look for funding, where funding's available. But like, if things, I mean, I guess the question is, what if things come up that aren't like on anyone's list and all of a sudden, but does that, does that mean that all of a sudden they are priorities or does that, how does that work? Or it means that there's money for some things, very specific, right? But so, I don't know. Eve, thoughts? Yes, I have two comments. One is, I would, I would suggest that you guys might feel comfortable passing on to the council, the two top priorities that the TAC has had for the last several years, which is North Pleasant and East Pleasant. You know, they're both really strong for a whole lot of reasons. And the TAC has been pretty consistent about saying that those are the top two. So that would be one thought. The other thought I have is, you guys might take a step back and think about whether you want to make any suggestions. This was, I don't know, again, you remember when the subcommittee came up with all those matrices, we also came up with like a list of things to focus on. And one of them was to sort of think creatively about alternative budget sources. So, you know, whether like a couple of the plans that we came across when we were doing our research, towns had systems that, for example, if a developer came in that was going to bring in a lot of parking, they had to contribute to something that would basically create no net gain in drive and cars. You know, so anyway, so there could be a system like that. There could be a system that says if parking requirements are waived, that they need to, you know, contribute to a fund to provide alternative transportation. I mean, I'm not saying that you guys can decide what it should be. But in my opinion, there's a huge interest from many sectors in this town to have much more robust and safer bicycling and pedestrian infrastructure. And it just happens at a snail pace because the town is always waiting for grant funding. And it seems to me that there might be an argument to be made for the town to have some sort of consistent source of internal funding. And again, the tech might not be the one to decide what that is. But the suggestion could be made. Anyway, I just think that there are these sort of bigger picture ideas that you guys might also bring besides just this project, this project, this project. Yeah. And I feel like that's our strength is the thinking and the planning and the amount of discussion that we've had for many years consistently about just these kinds of things. So that makes sense.  But I mean, I think that's important. I mean, that's what the tech adds. The main thing is like we're taking a more comprehensive look and we've like thought about them for a long time. Yeah. Well, so if we were going to send, I mean, what do other people think Bruce or Marcus or, I mean, if we're going to send any kind of message or, you know, tell the TSO and the new counselors about ourselves, like what would we say? I agree with Eve. I think we should keep emphasizing North Pleasant Street and East Pleasant. That if funding opportunities come up, that those are our two priorities and explain why. Certainly North Pleasant Street, it seems obvious because of the apartment complexes and near the university. And also we've talked about better lighting needed along there. And then East Pleasant because it's disconnected from the downtown, from the main part of town. And kids can't walk to school who live up in those neighborhoods because there's no connection right now and so forth. Yeah. But I think it would also be fine to have either a list or just mentioning other projects that we are looking at for the future. I think that would be a good idea as well. That could include South Amherst. Well, and I, but I even like Central Amherst, right? I mean, so I mean, I see some vision around like around East Hadley Road and like connecting to Groff, right? Because that's more recent and they're still trying to work on that connectivity. And also there's been talk about other improvements along 116, like to make it a more traffic calmed corridor all the way along and then tie in with like Hickory Ridge and like all these other things that weren't necessarily on in some of the plans five years ago or whatever. I mean to me, so I don't think I would make it all north of the university. And like that's northern section of East Pleasant. But I mean, we could just talk about how we're really committed to these corridors, you know, including 116 and like these connections and the accessibility for the populations that need it. I mean, and some of the improvements that are happening downtown, like they're great. So I mean, I'm glad to see some of those as well. All of them. I mean, even just even repainting the crosswalks, like they, I think they make a huge difference. So great. Guilford, those are awesome. All the bricks and all of it. It's amazing. Yeah. And this is a question for Guilford. Would, are we to have any more input in the changes on Belcher Town Road that the state might also help with? Is that an ongoing project? It is. It's still kind of being messed around with by the staff upstairs. If it's had something we would look at again in the future about sidewalks and bike paths and bike lanes along there. Yes. Okay. Okay. Well, we should mention that too. So that's another main corridor. Yeah. I mean, I think that's part of why we wanted the map too. Like, and we can see like, it's like connecting these. I mean, do we want it? So Guilford, do you have like the list we had talked about before? Did you find it? Unfortunately, I did. It's a reminder of what's past. So this, this is the big list. Are you sharing Guilford? Yes. Can you see it? We won't call it, we won't call it Guilford's list we'll like, but this is the list we're, this is the list we're working on. Right. Yeah. So the, as far as attack priority column, this is when you guys said you were interested in, are you moved it from the other page over? Sure. Sure. Yeah. I mean, so we know that these things don't happen that fast, but I mean, so I guess the question would be like Kim and the committee. I mean, if we were to, again, I really don't feel comfortable like itemizing particular like this is the most important, but I mean, how do we feel about sharing, you know, a number of these items and just saying these have been on the tax radar, you know, for a long time and we feel like they're all essential parts, you know, of building a better network in Amherst. Connecting village centers. Right. And the connectivity. Yeah. What I guess, you know, what are the common elements in this that we tend to focus on? I mean, one of the things that we do is we keep insisting that you should be able to get from point A to point B without having to drive. Driving isn't the only way to get around. Are there other pieces that if you do drive, you drive, you drive safely, you drive with respect to people in non-motorized transportation. You have a place to land your vehicle that's safe and convenient. I mean, there's some kind of general themes that we keep coming back and talking about. I don't know if any of that makes sense. Also the safety for pedestrians and bikers. Yeah. So, Guilford, why would you not want, so if we didn't number these, for example, we didn't like item, like say this was our top priority, why would you not want something like this to be out there? So, I don't, I mean, I can't like Guilford answer, but I'm very interested in hearing Guilford answer because I feel like it's important because you're the keeper of this list. And it's really, I'm really just asking a question. I really don't know why. And maybe you don't want to answer, which is okay. Well, if you actually look at the list, you'll see that things just pop in, they just show up. Right. And people ask, well, why does it show up? And it's because someone downtown makes it tells it to go in the list. It just seems, it's just kind of haphazard. That's a good word for it, but it just kind of, it just happens and trying to explain it is sometimes difficult and the reason behind it. Right. Like Mill Lane improvements in Kellogg Street, they just popped in. I mean, or Kellogg Street just popped in and that Mill Lane will go out together as a project next year. North Pleasant Street, something we work on. I can explain that one easy. West Street and Pomeroy Intersection, that wasn't on this list last year. That just popped in. So, because of the, I don't know, again, haphazard kind of nature of some of these. So it makes it difficult for you as a public official to justify what's on here. Is that it? It makes it just kind of, people ask, why is this the head of this one? Right. But what if this wasn't itemized to like, you know, what if just the projects were there and not the priority for them? I mean, that's fine too. I mean, the people will say, well, we should move this up. Why isn't this moved up? And yeah, I just don't, I just don't want to deal with it. Yeah, I am. I do understand that.  People are going to look at it. No, I, well, I think that's where we don't itemize it. And also, I mean, right, you know, Gifford's a staff member and it's like the council and he's not executive in terms of saying like this is, I mean, it's like you need the other support of these other people who are in the government to move it forward. So I guess, I guess my concern with publishing something like that is just that, yeah, you are then beholden.  He's right. No, of course. I don't know. Well, and I think, I mean, one thing is right, even, I think it will be helpful when we've done the map, right? And we can say that these are, you know, our corridors that we've identified. But like when I look at sidewalk and crosswalks, like I know, you know, some people, I know people have come to me and said I'd really like to have a sidewalk in like X neighborhood or I really want a crosswalk here. And like I know that it's not safe. Like the crosswalk wouldn't be safe unless you also do other improvements in that area. Like the one of the most dangerous things to me about a crosswalk is you can't just like paint a crosswalk and be like, okay, everybody cross because you know, what if it's like on 116? Well, I mean, this is one case I was thinking of for 116, or what if it's, you know, some other busy street and it's actually going to be a lot less safe. If people say, oh, look, a crosswalk, I'm just going to walk across it. Like you have to have like all the other things around it to you know, make it safe, including signage and like traffic calling and narrowing the road or having a roundabout or whatever you're going to do to make it actually safe to be there as a pedestrian. But I think, I mean, so I understand not wanting to publish a list per se or especially one that says one, two, three, like ranks, everything specifically. But I mean, why couldn't we could share, you know, the things that have been priorities just because like, you know, I mean, you know, like a kind of top five priorities or even like, right, so even what came up again about the South Amherst Common or things like places where you need better connectivity and you need better safety, you need accessibility. I think we could do it in a sort of general way. And I mean, in things like Station Road, right, I mean, nobody or even that little bridge on 116, like on West Street, the one that's just north of Pomeroy, like that, that little pedestrian bridge that's been closed for a long time, right? I mean, people would really like to see that reopen. So, what's going on with that road bridge at Potline? Oh, see, the other thing is I forget to put things on here. Why is the state funding it? Um, when you do anybody here hunt? No, do you hunt go for it? No. So when when you buy a hunting license, a lot of the hunting license money goes to different state agencies. And one agency is there to improve wildlife habitat. So they actually have a program which improves bridges and culvert crossings. So they're interested in this one and improving the habitat crossing. So we actually have a grant for this bridge that we're designing a replacement. So isn't that like a, it's like Fish and Wildlife Trail program or something, right? I've seen that. Is that the one? It's DER, isn't it? Yeah, or DCR program. It's DER, Department of Archaeological Restoration. Okay, yeah. It's an ILE grant. Nice, nice. I don't know what ILE stands for. I'm so excited. We're getting a calving. Proving Plumbrook Conservation Area, basically. This is the idea behind it. Would that be it? Or just like? No, it's just an impacted bridge. I mean, it's a culvert right now. It's going to become a bridge. So, cool. Great. That's great. Sorry, I just hadn't put it on there. I realize I need to put it on there. Well, I guess, you know, if Palmyra Village is improved, I mean, one priority I can see is improving some of the connectivity with Palmyra Village to like Hickory Ridge, but then also over towards the South Common if there's ways to do that. Like, I know the road is narrow and that there's wetlands. The only problem with that road is there's a bridge that has to be changed there too. Right. No, I know. That's the only. I mean, yeah, Plumbrook. If you're going, if you're going from, yeah, if you're going from the intersection like over to South Amherst. Well, it's also that dudes like run off into the street too, right? Yes. Yeah. Yeah. So, okay.  Right. So you can tell the ones that are scheduled. Well, and you have the TAC priorities. So I guess for these priorities, so these all happened before I joined the TAC. So did the TAC, and when they got on this list of the TACs actually like vote on them and say like, this is our priority? Is that what happened? Okay. And it came from this list. Oh, of these projects that are requested. Request. I think that's it right there. So, yeah. Okay. So I don't know how do we, what's the best way for us to proceed fellow TAC members? I think we should put together a group of projects we consider a priority for the TAC. Right. Okay. I don't think we need to provide a one, two, three, four, five. No, definitely not. Yeah. A group of something and say, these are the highest impact for the town. Right. Deal with them. And then, you know. Yeah. I also add a bit of narrative about why another project might pop onto the list as happening. You know, if there's a particular grant or opportunity, like put that text in there. That's a great idea. Yeah. Agreed. Oh, I mean, we definitely need narrative. And then we also have, I mean, I agree with you, Kim, like we could have two separate things about, you know, in terms of projects, but also like internally. Yeah. Or things like we want to see happen with TAC itself. All right. We'll do, I mean, so we've not talked about this list a couple different times. Our meetings, do we want to identify some, I mean, I like the idea of focusing on, like, with the sidewalks and crosswalks, like I see, I mean, like for example, like in the downtown, I think that that works really important to continue like creating good sidewalks and crosswalks downtown. Well, I mean, we already have three recommended, right? So let's start from there. But I guess, are those still the top, so wait, can you go back to the list? So those are, we still consider those to be the top three priorities. Is that what we're saying? Yeah, I think so. Marcus is referring, I think, to the ones that are like, where the TAC had already prioritized them previously, right? North Pleasant Street updates, and then the pot, pot wine. I mean, I make it bigger. Pot wine doesn't, pot wine doesn't seem as quite as important as some of it. Well, there was a significant, not actually significant, there was a good group of people that were coming and making a good point about the issues of getting to the bus stop at West Street. And so I think that was kind of where it was. So it's, yes, it's potential intersection improvements, but it's because people can't get to the bus safely. Yeah, and there's a soccer field right there in the neighborhood, and you have the bus stops on both sides of the street. Exactly. And there's no crossing between them. Right, right, right. Be a great roundabout, anyway. Well, that was the plan, I think, right? You got to start having more roundabouts. That was, that's actually long term when we were talking about it. That would be the long term solution. Yeah. So if we were to prioritize, it would be North Pleasant, north of the university, East Pleasant.  Everything along 116, I think, the whole 116, yeah. But I mean, I would steer clear of stuff that's already been funded, right? No, but we can still say, well, I think this is fun, you know, this is priorities for any funding that would become available. This is where you should push it. Okay. If stuff's already funded, it's done. But so one of the things is like, so take Palma Roy Village, Marcus. So the intersection itself, there's some fun funding to improve the intersection, like to create a roundabout. But then, you know, some people have said, well, are you going to make a sidewalk go this direction or that direction, right? It basically, I mean, my understanding is the funding will end basically, right? Pretty close to the intersection. And so, like, if we're talking about networks, then part of it is extending some of it to Hickory Ridge or to towards Crocker, like all that, the connectivity piece of it. So the project is the connectivity to the village. It is not the village center, right? Right. The village center has already been taken care of. It's already been funded. This would be a different project. Right. Yeah. Extending. Yeah. And then also, like Kendrick Park is on the list. But like, so some of that doesn't all have funding. But then I do, I do like the idea of tying that into like improvements to the downtown, continued downtown crosswalks and stuff. So Tracy, I think we've come up with three, four, five, six different projects that I think receive no particular priority and are all super important. So let me list them here. And it may potentially be some things that we could, you know, put out there. So north pleasant, north pleasant, the north pleasant piece that we've discussed and ad nauseam, the east pleasant, the south common upgrades and and all that pop line intersection, the Pomerai village connections and Kendrick Park revisions of that. So I wonder that that seems great. And something that that I think all of us can totally agree on and could be a six, that's six different things that we could say in no particular order are important projects. So we are we are interested in improving and we've thought a lot about. And that sounds good. I mean, I guess I would extend the Kendrick Park piece to also include great. So there is some funding to include a long triangle street, like, you know, going towards a school. And then also, and there's a few pieces there that could have like better connectivity. And then also just that roundabout, like if maybe looking if the roundabout needs any improvements to people feel about that, just like as a whole downtown connection. Sure. Yeah, I would emphasize safety with that as well. So could we say, could we kind of group these all together and say Kendrick Park slash triangle street connecting to the community park, whatever war memorial and the school thing. But yeah. And in addition, we have our own tack priorities, which include the charge and the network kind of, you know, the net publishing the network, the maps, right? The maps, right. Right. And also acquiring new members. Maps and members. Yeah. And yeah, yep. Yeah. I think yeah, I mean, I could see us writing that up is like two separate things. Yes. Agreed. So yeah, we can I can work on something and maybe we could talk about it. So this segues perfectly into our next into our last item, which is about when we're meeting next. So I mean, what do we think about if we I mean, we could write up something briefly, you know, as I would write up two different things just about like these are our priorities and Guilford can put them on his list as like the tack has identified these six priorities. And then so we could share those and then just also just, you know, as a brief kind of introduction to the tack and like what our internal priorities are. Yeah. And then I mean, if we I would like to, you know, run it, I don't know how much I would write something up over the break over the holidays, but I think this can be pretty short. I do think it's nice to have some narrative about it. Yeah, it doesn't need to be a whole like book. No, no. I mean, I would like one or two pages of the most stuff and just to introduce ourselves and then when the TSO is formed, we could like present it to TSO. Yeah, I think the council. Yep. Okay. I still vote for tack t shirts. Tack. I know who we are. And I also feel like maybe, you know, at the first TSO meeting, this is something we could present. The other thing that happens with the council, like I'm hoping that we will get a liaison from the council again to like come to the tack meetings, you know, not all the committees have liaisons, but there is something at the end of each council meeting where they have liaison reports. Yeah. And there's almost, I mean, for the majority of committees, nobody ever presents or anything. But I've always wondered, you know, if we wanted to, just as it's something we wanted to do as a tack, like every couple months or something, you know, we, we let our liaison or we share like, Hey, this is what tax done. Because one thing we could also write up a little bit is just what the tack has done in the last year, right, that we've helped with like Pomeroy and we help with Kendrick and we waited on these other things.  Just like a little bit about like we are a tack, because I guess there's a lot of conceptions about what tack is. So we could just tell the counselors what we are. We are amazing. Do we, do we have a next, a next meeting date? Yeah. So, so traditionally, right, we've been meeting on the first Thursday and the third Thursday, does that still work for January? So that would be on the 6th, January 6th, and that would be on the 20th. Do we feel like that works? That's good. Okay. And the town manager has said he will, you know, definitely start like work with the outreach people in the town manager's office to help recruit and so on. And again, if we like reach out to networks, I really have been trying, you know, trying to reach out to people more to try to get some more voices. So I wonder if this is a bit of hubris, but perhaps we could request that the town manager come and we can talk with him at the, you know, first 15 minutes of our next meeting about our priorities and where, who we are and, and what we're interested in doing. Or in the next, you know, sometimes because, because maybe that will help him like realize he needs to get out, but maybe just hearing from us for 15 minutes might be useful. Well, what do we think about if, for the next meeting, if we have something drafted about what we want to say? I mean, I, I mean, I don't feel like this is a super priority in terms of us sending this out and editing it and make sure it's in the council's hands on January 3rd. Like the council has a lot to absorb and they need to create their committees and so on. But maybe we could do a little bit of that on the 6th and then we could try to invite him like to the meeting, like later in the month. Sounds like a plan. Okay. Sounds good to me. So it's 630, everyone. All right, that sounds good. And Bruce can do his official job. So, I just had a quick, sorry, I had a quick question for Guilford actually. So Guilford now that the TSO, you know, has moved forward with their public ways plan. And, you know, in terms of their procedures for dealing with public ways requests and so on, like I had, and I'd ask the time manager just about cleaning up our website a little, but there's still that form that people can fill out on the TAC page. Can we just like remove it? Yeah. And he said that it's pretty, I mean, when I asked him about updates to the TAC website, he said they're in your, you know, amber in your hands or something. Yeah, we just take them off. So let's just take that thing off because I think it's just going to confuse people. And you could even refer people like TSO, you know, the council has adopted this public ways criteria for requests or something. Yeah. Because I'm sure the new councillors will have many requests, but thank you. Thank you. All right. Yes, I'm ready to adjourn. I apologize. Great. All right. Thank you. All right. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Great to see y'all. Nice to see all of you too.