Okay, good morning. It's a pleasure to see so many people after nine days of death camp and several days of death camp, especially if they are all still awake. I hope you don't change that. I don't think I've got any risk in for these people on this subject matter. Okay, no more jokes. One of the most important documents are our free software guidelines and he's about to tell us something about them. So please welcome Matthew Carrick. So this is strictly down as a burst of feather session. So I'm going to try to go through what I'm going to say reasonably quickly and then we can all argue viciously over what any of this stuff actually means. Again, so what are the Debian free software guidelines? Strictly though this may have been changed to some extent by the general resolution on foundation documents, the Debian free software guidelines are part of the Debian social contracts with its users. They describe what freedoms must be provided by a software license for us to be able to consider it free software. In terms of the history, in 1997 Bruce Perence, who was the Debian project leader at the time, emailed in answer to somebody posted a software license to a mailing list and Bruce responded with what he considered to be his set of criteria for determining whether or not a license could be considered free software or not. This was later posted to Debian privates as part of his proposed social contract and they then followed some argumentation on Debian privates and a moderate amount of privates emails that aren't archived anywhere. And so as a result the process by which the Debian free software guidelines, perhaps one of the more important documents in the entire free software community, were written and the thought process that led to certain wording being adopted is completely hidden from anyone who cares in the slightest except for Debian developers and even they can't see most of it. Which is a shame. So here we have a set of criteria for free software. Software must be free to use, software must be free for people to study, software must be free to distribute and people must be free to modify and distribute their modified software. This isn't the Debian free software guidelines. This set of points is the free software foundations for essential freedoms for free software. The Debian free software guidelines are quite similar but a little more clearly defined and essentially what they are are the free software foundations for freedoms plus a small list of explicitly acceptable restrictions such as you may require that the name of software is changed, you may require that modifications only be distributed via patches against the original software rather than as an integral part of modified software. We are more explicit about the fact that freedom must be for everyone. You can't have a free software license that's free for everyone except employees of nuclear electricity companies or the military.  And we explicitly state that free software must be able to coexist with the world of proprietary software. It may not need to support it but it must coexist. We do not accept as free a software license that states that all other software on the same distribution medium must be free software because we believe that people should be able to use free software even if they are working in a situation where they're not entirely using free software. And essentially that's without some publicity the difference between the Debian free software guidelines and a free software foundation for freedoms. So what I'm going to do now is to look at some of the debate over certain aspects of the free software guidelines. So for instance we have Debian free software guideline eight which states something along the lines of license must not be specific to Debian. The rights associated with the license must apply to everyone who receives the software not just those who are not just Debian. So this is to prevent licenses such as this where you have something saying Debian is allowed to treat this as free software but anyone else who receives it has additional restrictions. And pretty much everyone would agree that this is not free. And this is the sort of thing that's occasionally appeared around the time that the Debian free software guidelines of the recent people would say oh well I've written this piece of proprietary software but I point my Debian to be allowed to modify it. And so they come on and they say well here is a license that allows Debian to modify the software and now surely that's free software because you're allowed to modify some distributed modified version. Can you recall a specific example because I can't? People suggest this at various points. It was a common response from because we would mail, I don't know if people still do, we would mail the maintainers of people who would see the license it saying would you care to fix this city license and they would often write back and say well I'll never fix for everybody but especially for you. There's certainly a couple of them so I have successfully found and I think there's a reference for at least one of them in my paper which is available from somewhere. I should read. That's obviously something weaknesses are not free license. Now the problem with certain interpretations of DFSG8 is that you might end up with a license like this that states that the software is released under the new general public license which is the free software license and the Debian project is grant permission to distribute the drive words under a license they're choosing which means that the license grants Debian permissions that it doesn't grant to its other users which you could then interpret as favorite DFSG8. Or five or six. Or five or six whichever. But we have this issue that certain literal interpretations can have slightly odd side effects such as saying that a piece of software that grants more freedoms than the new general public license is not free which I think again people with 10 degrees probably not be desired side effects of this sort of clause. So one thing that can be important while reasoning DFSG is to think about why they're risen the way they were. And unfortunately at the moment the largest end that that's involved trying to get inside the mind of Bruce Parrons. Eww. And yes this is possibly slightly less than desirable. We do not within the project have any desperately good rationale for why various points in the Debian free software guidelines say the things they do. And a lot of the time we can come up with arguments for why they do say that but it's difficult to justify some of those interpretations. And something that the question is should we attempt to interpret should we take the literal text of the Debian free software guidelines and attempt to interpret that literal text within today's free software social context. Or should we assume that what we mean by free software hasn't changed in which case we need to interpret them in the situation that we found in 1997. Which was a slightly more innocent and less hostile environment in some respects. Less hostile in the sense that we were largely being ignored. Exactly we didn't have people trying to screw us over and sue us repeatedly except the University of Washington. So one thing that appeared we have this the GPL is an example of a copy left license. It's designed to allow it to be the software to be used by anyone and modified versions distributed and used by anyone. But it's also intended to ensure that anyone using the software can gain access to the source codes of the software so they can change how the software they use works. Now this is excellent assuming that you live in the world where software is executed on the computer on your desk. It works less well if you never actually distribute the software that somebody is using to them. So say if somebody writes a application that sits and presents a web interface to something. If the user never actually gets hold of the server side of the software then under the GPL they have no right to the source code despite the fact that they're using the software on a regular basis. So this is sometimes called the um uh what's the euphemism? Web loophole or is it? Remote procedure loophole something like that. It's to refer to things where you communicate over a well-defined network interface. A well-defined network interface and as a result you can't complain that there's any distribution of the software. I think the interestingly this loophole is surprisingly similar to one that's that doesn't have anything to do with remote communication whatsoever. It's the uh it's the old argument about the GPL and using wrappers for um well for instance if you use the shell interface to go out and do something then you're not if you write a shell script that evokes GPL licensed command executables then your shell program doesn't have to be under the GPL. And that's that's a common interpretation but it's I guess the reasoning is that there's a sufficiently large barrier between the interfaces of the shell and the presumably C program that you're executing that the virality of the GPL doesn't hop over yeah it's hard to consider that's a derived work under copyright law though we'll never really be sure until somebody actually starts a lawsuit over it. But it's a lot of parsing, it's a lot of handling. Uh so this sort of brings us to the AFRO general public license which is a pretty much a direct copy of the GNU general public license except with one additional clause and that additional clause effectively says that if the software release under that license is intended to be faced over the network with the user and if that software contains functionality that allows the user to download the source code for programs. So say imagine a PHP script uh PHP content management system that's all your web pages are in that has a little button down in the bottom right hand corner that says download my source code. The AFRO general public license says you are not permitted to remove that functionality. Uh huh, you're me. Not misremembered, you've missed my own films. Oh sorry, right, yes. It's a good thing we don't let you write licenses. Well I hope that's where I'm writing the licenses then there was of course be checked thoroughly by Devin Legal for attempts to release any software. So uh and there will be unless we get distracted by one of our own internal claim orders. Well absolutely. So this is intended to ensure that software, the source code software is always available to the users of the software even if they're separated from that software by the void of IP of raving carrier. And I think it's probably reasonable to think of this as a fine upstanding attempt to ensure that uh the source code of software is available to more people and people who use it. On the other hand it's demonstrably a restriction on modification and it's a restriction on modification that goes beyond what the GPL allows. I can't take code out of the web server application and stick it into some random piece of crap because it doesn't have a web server in it. Well at that point it's not software that's intended to communicate to a network anymore so it's not an issue. It uses NNTP instead of HTTP. But then you in that case functionality could possibly be the Fusser will append a URL that provides the software to it. And if I'm correct you're allowed to change the functionality doesn't say that you have to maintain the code or the method just a way to get the. Yeah I think the idea is there's every person who interacts with the software should be able to obtain the source code. Right so and that's something that doesn't generally present a technological barrier. So in that sense it's a it's similar to some of the sub clauses of section two which say if the program is interactive you must clause and be printed a banner or you know you may not remove an existing yeah set of code that prints a banner identifying the coding that's licensed or whatever. Yeah. So if you can rewrite it you can port it to a different programming language but you have to preserve the existing functionality. It's the functionality that's important rather than the specific implementation of the functionality. Another point you might mention about the affair of public licenses I understand that it was created with the blessing of the Free Software Foundation. Absolutely. Which has caused a lot of speculation about GPL v3. Well the Free Software Foundation science explicitly states that it's a non-GPL compatible free software copy that license but is expected to be compatible with GPL v3. And since traditionally GPL does not allow any restrictions that's in the presence of GPL itself it does seem strongly implied. So yeah it's worth pointing out there that it also if it provides the functionality means that if the software does not include the functionality to to to someone to download the source code of the network it doesn't you don't you don't have you don't have to you don't have to include it. It's just like the interactive banner clause in that sense if it doesn't start out with one you're not forced to add it and modify it. So it's probably the case that even if we accept clauses like this as free then it's possible that somebody could provide a mechanism that was sufficiently obnoxious that it resulted in you being unable to usefully make the right words of that software. And in that case that specific software might be non-free but then we also have people who attempt to interpret certain clauses of the GPL in such a way that it's blatantly not really free. I think there are pathological interpretations of most licenses that's allowed us to twist it into being non-free software even if fundamentally we agree that this software should be a basic concept behind this clause should be free. And that's not a problem when the person doing a pathological interpretation is some random devian developer. It is a problem when the person undertaking an interpretation is the copyright holder in a piece of software they're trying to distribute. In which case we can always either send suits to us or not ship this. In general I think going for the not-shipping is probably a better option. Anyway Paytons, the Paytons weren't too much of a problem in 1997 when it came to free software though they are explicitly listed in they are explicitly mentioned in the GPL which states that it's not permissible for the fact that you can provide somebody with a copyright license doesn't mean that you can distribute GPL software if you have a restricted patent license that you're enforcing which would mean that somebody could not exercise all of their GPL rights but that's about as far as it went up until fairly recently and then suddenly people started threatening to sue free software projects over their use of license of patents and strangely enough as often happens the free software community has adapted by including clauses that attempt to prevent this sort of behavior since the behavior is considered harmful to the free software community and therefore we don't particularly want people to have the freedom to sue us for patents infringement for those parts at least we should make it awkward for them to do so there should be a cost to suing us for patents infringement and in existing software licenses there are two main clauses that deal with this sort of situation one of them is if you sue us for patents infringement then you're right to uh where we are the people who give you a piece of software yes so if i as someone who gave you a piece of software get sued by you for patents infringement you no longer have the right to use any patented uh any patents that i hold patents for regarding that piece of software and so i get to counter sue you for patents infringement if you want to carry on using the software assuming you have a patent with the force yeah uh which yeah yes so how strong this is depends upon how because a set of patents the free software community holds and how they are infamous by specific piece of software but as an example that way it's just like her work for proprietary software that companies share software and they if you sue us we see you because monthly they have patents it's a problem for us that we don't have we don't want them in the uh proprietary world uh companies mostly deal with the patent situation by in hinting at mutually short destruction yeah uh if apple and microsoft got into a patent battle then it's likely that neither company would be producing greater the software for the next 25 years or so so lotus and borland fought their way to the supreme court three times over software patents in the united states doesn't always result in the desired outcome but effectively if we don't have any patents it becomes difficult for us to really survive in this world but that's also appearing on top of it the other source of flaws which is a bit stronger is that if you sue us for patents infringement uh you lose the right to use the software full stop which is unfortunate say if uh you're if you're distributing it um it's unfortunate if you integrate this heavily into your own proprietary software and it's slightly irritating if you've just shipped 200 000 copies of it to your users desktops uh now basilar includes both of these clauses effectively one of them says uh the first one here the one that's strictly related to the patent license is only invoked sorry is invoked if you sue anyone for if you sue basilar foundation for any painted infringement whether it's a specific piece of software or not uh then you lose any patent license the basilar foundation has granted you so if you sue over thunderbird then you lose your patents granted by firefox as well what if you sue over a business benefit like like you guys are cleaning your office in the wrong way i mean like no in my proprietary way which is good and i mean seriously seriously i can't actually remember i believe that the npl tries to limit it to software type situations so i can't remember when we have a game and try to get that license parsed before the end of the talk uh whereas the termination of the copyright license is only triggered by um you suing over that piece of software so if i sue you over paint infringement by firefox i lose the copyright to firefox but not to any other works that i may have obtained there's a kind of logic to that because the the penumbra of the copyright protection only goes as far as the work itself whereas patents go everywhere yeah so this sort of clause also appears in the apple public source license and the apple public source license says if you sue us for patents infringement you uh we terminate your copyright license to all software that we've given you under this license so then they jump out of the penumbra and say right um the downside again is um the apple public source license uh doesn't restrict stats to software paintings uh with the result that if i say uh claim that apple has violated my patent on their case design i suddenly lose my rights to use uh various chunks of aksl software release my apple uh i think that's probably going a bit far especially since while we will in general agree that software patents do have a somewhat chilling effect upon us the broader idea of patents uh the painting of hardware designs and the like is not something that there's anywhere near as much consensus on the evilness of but for the most part patent holders often really do want us dead and so as a result of that it's not surprising that people within the free software community are seeking to find ways of protecting ourselves from them the problem is there's no good consensus on which of these things are acceptable in free software and which aren't deviance certainly not taking lead here the open source institute has explicitly said that uh they don't really care and the free software foundation have maintained a wonderful silence so arguably this is something where we should be making a stand but that would actually require us to agree on something sorry a few just fans according to um section 1.10.1 the definition of patent claims in the npl it's a patent a patent claim is blah blah blah including without limitation method process and apparatus claims and the patent licensable by the grantor and I scanned the part about termination it did not further restrict the application of patents so the mozilla public license is completely neutral as to regards what kind of patents are okay okay so uh painting licenses um complete lack of consensus and uh general depth of universe protected unless we actually do something let's say it's deviant I try to do lots of things and um maybe we'll actually do ones that usefully let's have multilateral talks with the website and the fsf you can get those two to sit now so the fsf so so it's worth knowing that the fsf um is now kind of their legal department has basically been spun out into the software freedom law center right and they're employing the person from the public who started the public patent foundation um and there was lots of experience doing stuff for patents so maybe it's just something we can get an answer from uh jan robertser over what's he pleased to be acceptable yeah yeah I mean most of what public public pat does is doing things like storing you know basically storing software software patents for three softwares you can get into that when the shit hits the fan right you can get it we build our own they can say listen we've got 10 patents and they're fucking useful and you need them and you and we're gonna have to make you know we've got a patent done x or so pay up right or we'll actually leave us alone is the uh trademark licenses this has come to the floor with firefox lately the mozilla foundation called a trademark on firefox as related to the field of software products uh in the united states at least possibly some other jurisdictions that matter they call the trademark on the word mozilla as well but it's not clear to me what the scope of that one is so the idea of this is to say if you modify this software uh you are not granted a trademark license and so if you continue to call this firefox we can uh send you cease and desist letters and the idea of this is to prevent situations where people impair a brand by taking advantage of the free things granted by free software license the specific source concern that the firefox people worry about is that anyone can take the firefox source code and integrate spyware into it and then put it up on a download site as firefox and they would prefer five versions of firefox that do bad things to not be called firefox because otherwise you'll have people setting the homepage to guptex for instance uh that's not yeah i couldn't use so the idea is not to prevent somebody doing this because obviously there are cases where they might well be say um if i'm doing a study into uh user behavior when using web browsers that would make sense of my modified web browsers to track what people are doing while they're using it uh but that's crazy science of its setting uh it's not really possible to prevent it in a free software license people need to have the right to modify software whatever it is that would be a field of endeavor restriction yeah people need to have the right to use software uh to modify software to do things that you didn't expect them to do and may even not particularly like them doing so the idea of this sort of trademark license is not to prevent people taking advantage of the reasons granted by software it's to ensure that the user can always tell the difference between a product that's upstream produce and a product that's downstream produce that is drive-worth of here it's not and there's been some argument over whether or not this should be acceptable in free software doesn't i tend towards thinking that it's this irritating um but in a situation where we can provide software given a specific name given the same name as upstream then that reduces user confusion and is probably a worthwhile goal because it doesn't actually prevent the user from modifying that version of sales providing it is not too difficult to rename piece of software yeah so the mozilla foundation in this case have basically said that they will provide a set of instructions and if you do everything requested by those instructions then that will be considered uh sufficient to satisfy their concerns they won't sue you over any remaining instances of the one at firefox um just to make sure i understand correctly uh it's an old even from the old days it was like university of washington has these clauses that you you need to to make it to change the names but this is extending is you cannot even use the name is that correct you cannot so um represent your work as the uh fine license for instance requires locally modified versions to carry a version number that was different to make it clear that it was a locally modified version that was perhaps in that case more to ease support burden so if somebody reports to bug to the university of washington with the version number make immediately say this version is being locally modified so this goes a bit further if it says you can't use the name but it's only bounded by trademark law you can use the name in any way that is not confusing that does not seem free to the trademark license so the fact that i am not allowed to call it firefox does not mean this i am prohibited from saying we built this software on top of firefox in an interview with the press that's true in the same way that uh the fact that force holds trademark on the word force doesn't mean that i can say that i used to own the force so it's just to clarify actually what what trademark is about sorry so so what they are saying is that's the standard of trademark business uh default state is that uh you are not permitted to use a trademark term yeah most uh a trademark term in areas that would be confusing this way that's not generally an issue with free software because very few pieces of free software use trademark terms we're pointing out that debbie is the registered trademark yeah debbie is the registered trademark you are not permitted to call something debbie in in various cases uh in some other cases i believe you're allowed to use the debbie in trademark where it relates to debbie in so there's some i'm going to take where that do i think but descriptive you can't you can't necessarily an as non-profit there's a number of other things a number of people do use the word debbie in places where they probably shouldn't and you know at a soccer notebook and just as a lawyer and goes around and there was the case of the uh what was this trusted debbie yes that was didn't necessarily present a very flattering image of debbie by implying that what was untrustworthy and so i don't think we actually in cases any sort of formal proceedings but it was suggested that maybe they might want to reconsider their name and i think it's the dpl at the time who sent them a nasty frame and that they changed it yeah and i think there's more than they like uh and they changed without any argument it's so much better but okay they changed without too much open arguments and unwillingness and have sort of be grudged it ever since is jeff look we in here if not okay um we we kind of fought our way to a a kind of principle on debbie legal with regards to the latex project public license because what they wanted to do was enforce a restriction wherein if you modify the file you had to change the final name and we fought that pretty strongly and they'd actually get their agreement uh not to to try to push that into the license because the reasoning is is that this is uh is that you can use trademarks or things like trademarks to prevent people from passing off a work as something that it's not but you can't use it to uh to impose restrictions on modifications of computer interfaces and a file name is a computer interface so uh i think we would have a problem if the mozilla foundation were very strong without saying you can't call you like user bend firefox is not loud you could call it user bend firefox and then when it comes up it says you know debbie and ice legal yeah and yeah in the band because because then you're communicating directly with the user more or less and not trying to communicate with another software interface and that's an important distinction to keep in mind and i think it's one that has rough consensus on the debbie and the mailing list yeah at least hasn't a year or so again the mozilla foundation suggested that they don't object to say binaries having right that's name uh as long as in the obvious user interface it's not referred to that way so in the graphical environments they would prefer us to appear with the ice legal term rather than the firefox term in the menu right but that's when launched if being launched by other software that's other software would be allowed to launch it by attempting to call firefox right so it presents the same software interface but not necessarily the same direct interface to the user there there has been at least one court case in the united states where somebody was used was embedding their trademark termed inside of bios or something and so when somebody was uh creating a clone uh the presence of the trademark termed in the bios was was used as an instance of infringement i wish i could find the case for this i've looked for it at some point in the past month but the court ruled that because the presence of that string was used by other software to configure itself and the purpose of copying the trademark term was to provide interface compatibility that the trademark licensor could not initiate trademark infringement proceedings so it's it can be dangerous to a trademark holder to wed the use of their mark too tightly with technological dependencies upon that i believe that case may actually have been of the nintendo entertainment system and people producing unlicensed cartridges for that possible uh sony did something similar with the cop protection for playstation there's a section of codes on playstation cds that is copyrighted and represents their trademark in some way so they can attempt to use as many cease and desist less as possible if they're not all enforceable yes even more so in fact um but part of my day job i would ask you to get involved with such a case apparently the playstation will not start up unless it finds certain playstation graphics on cd and of course they're copyrighted trademark for everything called graphics yeah so uh people have tried to use trademarks to inhibit uh people's ability to make interoperability uh i think people attempting to do that are probably not on the side of free software i think we may have some reasonable degree of consensus there so since 1997 that the world has changed somewhat uh we have many more things that have been used to attack free software we have people who will deliberately attempt to use every loophole they can to take advantage of what we have risen without giving anything back and that's fine uh in some cases obviously the bsd license specifically is written in such a way to encourage this sort of behavior but there are other licenses that are used by people who would prefer this sort of thing not to be allowed and inevitably when we try to protect ourselves from more of this sort of behavior we impair the ability of people to make certain types of derived words or to use the software in certain cases and we need to accept that there is a balance here it's always possible for people to come up with new ways of attacking free software and if we want to protect against those then we may need to prevent people from being allowed to do certain things that would in an ideal world be allowed so the gpl is an obvious example of something that very much restricts the rights of derived of derivers uh in order to protect the community as a whole it says you may not embed this software within software if you're not going to reach the source codes of all of this under the gpl and if say we imagine a hypothetical world where the gpl had not been written in the late 80s if in 1997 uh Debian was based almost primarily on top of bsd license software if the learners kernel in fact were under a bsd start license and then we've got to this point and somebody came along with this copy left license uh maybe it wouldn't have been registered or perhaps i don't know who things would have worked out differently and so if somebody today presented the gpl to Debian as a new software license of license which had never been seen before do you think there's any remote chance whatsoever that we would look at that and say yes this is a free software license i think we would make them get rid of some of the flaws in section 2 about the banners that we have to keep to be honest i think we'd be quite dubious about this idea of imposing uh source code availability who's we well we various people with it wouldn't be here in the first place it's unlikely that we would be successful enough to be here in the first place because we'll be running microsoft winix yeah that sort of thing so it's been something of a problem but the instinctive response to any new license is to look at ways as it restricts reasons beyond what we consider acceptable without looking at what benefits those restrictions bring and possibly times come to actually start thinking more strongly about where we think the line should be drawn in terms of the balance between restrictions and freedoms so that's basically everything i had to say as there anything anyone else to want to bring on just stretching though okay no i know i'm sure um one thing one thing that is really uh kind of hidden for me is in a lot of conversations with with i wouldn't know if he'll always say things i'll say well you know this part is really annoying it causes this to happen and all this thing says is this a freedom issue and you have to think about it right because i think that that often often we confuse the less than often situations or the plain ugly or confusing situations or the you know any number of different problems that a license can have and there are lots of problems that a license can have that that are not necessarily freedom issues right there can be there can be some license that are suboptimals in a range of ways that that ultimately do not take away anybody's freedom or put it i don't know against the spirit of free software and i think that's something we need to kind of ask if it's the free software is not the freedom to do absolutely anything free software is the freedom to do some things maybe a large number of things but not necessarily everything well let me rebut make this point a little bit the concern i have with licenses that are written like shit uh even if only in some respects is that is that we have to remember what's the goal the goal here is that we want to have freedoms and we want to have those essential for free software freedoms and if you have a license that's that's full of ambiguous or unclear language what does a careful person who's trying to do the right thing when they're modifying free software do they read this and go hmm can i do this or not well i get sued it's not really clear i might have to pay a lawyer and they just won't exercise their freedoms even even the ones in the subset i mean not the freedom to do absolutely everything but even the freedoms that they're supposed to be guaranteed under the fdl so you know i want to i want to do better than having a world of licenses that are technically dfsg free i want to have a world of licenses where people can go forth and exercise their freedoms with some confidence that they're not going to be squished by you know some lawsuit because that that threat is real and they're going to have to cope with that on a rational basis anyway um if license proliferation and the proliferation of poorly worded licenses increases to the point where they you know are smothered by irrational fears uh then we're not really servicing the community as we talk to real corporate lawyers about the gpl i have not they're incredibly terrified of it well many of the crap ones are and the problem is that you can tell people that their fears are irrational but they're irrational and the reason that they have these fears is because they're not thinking clearly and very often you coming along and trying to you know explain it to them isn't going to help but who is more who is more likely to make a persuasive case joe q garage developer or the deviant project i mean 10 years ago we were joe q garage developer now we have a little more force we have a stronger voice and we know other people in the community who can help to make a persuasive case let me give you a good example the creative commons people have been very indulgent of our you know this picky proofreading of their licenses and it looks like that they're going to be like licenses are very you know favorable to us by the people that you all not consistently much more you know most of them you know we're interested in talking to um compare that with the people who are scared and don't understand what's going on most people are all those people who aren't connected to our community and they've never heard of us but they have heard of us they see this as some kind of weird hippie crowd and some of that people are the country's centre-lines so you turn up to a UK court and you go to the UK and they'll go well this phrase doesn't mean anything because the right work has though been a warning to the court i think it's clearly the case that proliferation of software licenses um does nothing whatsoever in most cases benefit free software and the open source institute must take actually OSI initiative initiative yeah have actually started taking a stance against this which is a surprisingly useful thing that we've done because like i can't remember doing anything else welcome never know yes and that's i think is undoubtedly a good thing because okay we don't particularly care about what the OSI does but uh lots of companies really want to be able to take that little OSI approved license tick box when they're saying so are we going to be able to say we're engaged in open source so one of the things that i think is really interesting is when we look at the body of licenses that existed back in the BFSG was written it was pretty easy to determine which within that set were ones that we thought yeah fell on our side of one which ones we thought fell on the other side of our body and in fact the set that's explicitly referenced in our cause channel yes in clause 10 was not particularly arbitrary it was in fact at the time you know almost a complete list of licenses that we thought were reasonable at that time and what's been intriguing to me is that there's this combination of the facts and pressures that over time have caused real licenses to appear there's really only been one sort of economic model change in licensing since then that was at all interesting for free software community and that's the difference in sub rights on the Zillow license objective other than that in almost every case what we have seen is a proliferation of licensing subtleties that have made it harder and harder for us to figure out which side of the license policy so just blaming Debbie and legal for getting more argumentative doesn't doesn't paint a complete picture the the market has evolved to the point where we're being asked to make more and more difficult decisions yeah with the issues at hand are more subtle and harder for the average to bring it software professional that's why that's one of the reasons I wish people would cut legal some slack because it's being asked to do harder and harder things all the time the reason for this is obvious though it's because nowadays getting your license approved by Debbie and or OSI as free software as well has a lot of value even if your license is not really free software or you don't really care about free software or anything like that and so lots of people are very motivated to screw everybody over and this is one reason why new licenses are you know treated as a great deal of suspicion but on the other hand you look at these licenses and the problem in most cases with you know if we're not talking about giant weird shit licenses from microsoft um or sun um often yeah or apple but sometimes we you know we've got some random projects out there and they wrote some pile of nonsense or they you know with the best of intentions and what those people need is you know help i think at this point we're out of time so um i'm sure we've had ample opportunities to continue this discussion at length in a variety of different ways as uh thanks well i should point out that when i was ppl i tried to get people to agree to a reparative


Thank you Ricky. Good afternoon everyone. Are you still excited? Yes. What's your energy level? 1 to 10. 10 to be the best and 1 to be... hmmm... I'm draining Sam. 2 to 10. All right so before we get started, very quick survey. How many of you are actually using Gutenberg for your day-to-day post-publishing? And how many of you have disabled Gutenberg and using classic editor?  Okay one final question. How many of you actually have no idea what I'm talking about? Thank you. All right so let me just show you a survey that I've conducted on my social media. I ask people what is the editor you're using in your WordPress and this is a response I got like a majority using classic editor and some of them using Gutenberg and very few people using other editors. And this question is for day-to-day publishing. So I'm not talking about page designs. As a web developer you're probably designing a page which is for example about us or our products. You might be using a page builder, a fantastic page builder, a commercial page builder. These are the pages we usually use, page builders. That's absolutely fine. I'm talking about day-to-day publishing. Let's say in your company today you are writing an article about WordCamp Singapore. How many of you planning to write an article about WordCamp Singapore? Your participation in WordCamp Singapore? That's great. The rest of you should do it. That's what that other guy talking in the other room. Okay? So when I saw the schedule I thought probably I'll be speaking to the chairs and everyone will be in the other rooms. Google is talking in the other room. But I'm glad you guys are here today for Gutenberg because Gutenberg is going to be, it's already in the call and there's a lot of development happening. I'm going to share some of that today with you. So this is a traditional editor. What you see is what you get but it's not exactly what you see is what you get, right? We have been using this for many, many years and I know the suffering and you know the sufferings. We suffered together but this has been a wonderful editor. The Tiny MC has been there for many years and it helped us a lot to get through from HTML and plain coding to something that you can done to some extent. Look at this. This is a classic editor and I put some two pictures there. It's the durian season in Malaysia. How many of you are durian lovers? How many of you have durians? See these are the Gutenberg and classic editor guys. So I'm trying to align the images. There is no columns. I'm a bit struggling with that images. Finally I got something and I'm going to view it and I got this. It's not exactly what you see is what you get but classic editor to some extent it helped us a lot and that's where a revolution happened in WordPress. Gutenberg were introduced back in 2017 in WordCam Europe by Madmulunwork. So Gutenberg is a new revolution in content authoring in WordPress. All of you have Gutenberg. So those of some of you raised up now just now say no idea what I'm talking about. You actually already own a Gutenberg so be proud of it. So now I'm going to show you how to use Gutenberg and what kind of things we can get done with Gutenberg and what are some of the limitation of Gutenberg here. Let's look at these few new features in Gutenberg, what you can get done. First of all post covers. You can have image or video post covers. So this is my Gutenberg editor. I'm going to add a title and then I'm going to put a new block. This is blocks. They call it block and I'm searching for cover and that's a cover and I'm going to pick one of the images all lovely durian images there and that's a cover and most something is the best of its class. It's like WordPress compared to all other CMS. So it's now full width and that's a beautiful cover there and I'm going to add some text and down there I'm going to do one more cover with a video background. So it's just few minutes to get these beautiful covers for your pages. Now I'm going to add a short video there and this video I took from Singapore YouTube channel. So it's Singapore durian. Malaysian durian looks slightly different. It's much better actually. So it's wider and if you preview it now I got a beautiful cover here right and I've done this using Gutenberg editor. Yeah so can you do this with classic editor? Yeah so let's look at some columns. You can create columns easily with Gutenberg now. Columns are things that you want to align multiple objects in the same line. We have suffered with tables right. Usually we use tables to put different things in the same line and it sucks on the mobile devices because tables are not responsive. So you need to work around with your HTML to make it responsive. So if you're not good in HTML I don't want to ask you how many of you can do HTML. I can see that now. If you're not good in HTML then that's a big struggle to do something. So I'm just designing three boxes there and I'm going to put up some contents. I'm sorry this video is slightly longer. So that's three different durian in the price. I know some of you are wondering is that the price in Malaysia? Yes it is. I do some alignment at the same time. You can see on the right there is property settings. You can make some customization in Gutenberg. So now I got three boxes with three different tags and three price tags there and I align everything to the center so I can imagine what will happen on the mobile device. I apply some background colors and click there. So background colors looks much better and let's look at this in our front right now. This is what I got. So three columns and let me switch to mobile device. What we see in our mobile device. Look at it. So it's well stacked and it's a very responsive view. It's stacked on your mobile. I'm changing to latest iPhone X. Is that the latest device? So now this is an iPhone X. So it's much compatible. It is responsive in a way that you can control how it is aligned. So columns is one of beautiful features in Gutenberg. A lot of people cried when Gutenberg was launched because there were no columns and later the columns were introduced and now it's much stable. Social I met one example. If you're writing a post like this you want to embed some Twitter or Facebook right and you can just put that's me with my man Mullen work. I know I just simply picked this tweet to brag about it. So that's a Facebook post. I just copied the URL and put it up. Click embed. So now I got Facebook, Twitter and Facebook post embedded within my article and it's beautiful. Just few clicks. You don't need to use third-party plugins to do this. Probably you have seen such embeds in news websites right or any other online portals. If you're still missing Classic Editor and all the points that I've mentioned just now few feature highlight doesn't convince you and you're really really missing Classic Editor. Now we have Classic Editor blog within Gutenberg. So you can add Classic and here you go. Do whatever you want. So it's a Classic Editor within Gutenberg and that's what you get. So there's no reason why we have to switch to Classic Editor in disabled Gutenberg other than some of the points I'm going to mention next. Let's see what are the features that is packaged together in Gutenberg. Reusable blogs. Let's say you have designed something beautifully, something like this that we did just now. You can save this. So just click there and click add to reusable blogs and give it a name. For example, I'm giving a name as my three columns safe. That was saved. Now I'm creating a new post, a brand new post, clicking new post and go and this is a new post. I'm going to call this reusable blog that I saved. Here it is. So you can always create some templates that you usually use and save it and recall it on other pages. So that's reusable blogs. If you have designed something great, you can share with your friends or with other websites. So what you can do is you can export this blog that you saved just now and they can import in their website. So this is how we do it. So we go all the way to the three dots at the end of the page and there's a menu with several settings, manage all blogs and this is the blog that I saved. Export as JavaScript object notation and then in a new website you can click import in the same area. So with this you save a lot of time by sharing the blog. So it's not just designing and keep it on your website. You can switch it to a different website for the particular blogs. A blog manager is a new feature introduced like just months ago. It allows you to control which blogs are enabled in your WordPress and which blogs are not because sometimes this blog can be overwhelming because there's so many blogs and your content author get confused which blog to click because there's so many blogs. So you can simply disable some of the blogs and enable the blogs that is only required for your website. For example, if you go to that setting and blog manager and you can see there's so many blogs. So you can disable all unnecessary blogs that you think you won't be using or you don't want other author to use on your website and just uncheck and close it. So now if I go and add a new blog on my page and under embeds, so I only see few. Otherwise you will have a long list of some in here embeds. So this is the new feature which allows you to manage what exactly you want to allow other people to use on your Gutenberg. Custom CSS. This is something cool if you are like front-end developer or you know something to some code to write how to write CSS. CSS cascading style sheets that allow you to style any area of your page any element in your page. So now with the blogs everything is a block. You can simply style all these blogs. For example, I'm going to add one CSS for this text block. So I click on the text block at once and additional CSS class. I'm going to add my CSS. That's the class for example. I'm going to front-end. That's the Durian website and then click on the customize. And now in the additional CSS, I'm going to call my CSS here. So it's dot my CSS. It's a class, so I start with dot. And I'm going to just do some CSS and I can see what's happening to that content because that content has this class, right? I just had it. So I'm just writing some design code. Don't call this as a code. It's not exactly a code. So it's a property value. These things are totally fixed. So if you don't know CSS, go back and please learn about CSS because in future WordPress, everything will be in the customizer. So there's no team settings. There's no team option in the back end. There's no widgets in the back end. So everything will be in the customizer. So you will be relying a lot on the CSS. So this will be very helpful. I just write full line of property values here and I got something like that. So that is the additional CSS in Gutenberg. These are the flexibilities and options you have in Gutenberg. And some extra tips using Gutenberg is you can use slash to insert blocks. So you don't need to go and press plus to insert blocks. Just put slash and just call whatever name you want. For example, Twitter. It comes up Twitter. Support markups. You can use double hashtag and write something that will become heading. And then you can use forward. What's that? What do we call that? You get a quote there and then quote to get quote blocks and then bullets. You can use star. And then you can use shift enter.  Sometimes when you enter, you get a next text block, right? So you can do shift enter. Shift alternate edge. You can find out a lot of keyboard shortcuts. How keyboard shortcuts help in Gutenberg. Similar to we have some shortcuts in classic editor, right? And we use a lot of shortcuts in different software. Control C, control V. These are the basic shortcuts that you use. But a part of that, you have many other keyboard shortcuts that you can use in Gutenberg. You can refer to that. Why you should use Gutenberg over classic editor. Gutenberg is a part of the core. That means WordPress will support Gutenberg. Eventually, all teams and plugins need to support Gutenberg. So you have an advantage here over any other page builder. If I'm using a page builder, for example, WP Bakery. Anyone from WP Bakery here? Never ever use that. So can we censor this later in the video? So WP Bakery is like a bloated with so many codes. You know, I know some of you thinking that's the same case with page builders, right? So Gutenberg going to be the same case. No. In the next phase, they're going to introduce Async. So with Async, if you're using some blocks on the page, it will load that particular JavaScript. If not, it won't load. So it's not like one package of JavaScript loaded on all pages. So these are some plans coming off of Gutenberg. Less plugins to manage. Everything will be blocked or in the future, like down the road next three years, you will see less and less plugins in the plugin store and more and more blocks. So you just install blocks and you don't need to manage so many plugins. Blocks are not easy to develop. I know there's a learning curve because it's based on React Native and you need to learn React Native to develop new blocks.  I had some very useful conversation around what comes Singapore today. I found some of you already creating your own blocks. Gutenberg has been developed very actively in the past three years. We got more than 10,000 commit and more than 1,000 releases and we got two stars for the plugins. Yay. It's simply, it's not a bad thing. Why people are using Classic Editor with Gutenberg is most probably they're using outdated team. So the team doesn't support Gutenberg Editor. So they have to use Classic Editor. So if you are new to WordPress and you want to use create pages and contents, I strongly recommend you use Gutenberg over Classic Editor. Classic Editor will be retiring in 2021. So there's two more years to support it. After 2021, you have to use Gutenberg, okay? So it's I'm begging you now to use but later on I don't. You have to use it. So just kidding. So Gutenberg is very actively developed. This is a roadmap for Gutenberg. You can see I think function is here, the stars, the menu block. There's one project running separately working on the menu block for Gutenberg. So soon we will have menu block. You can add menu anywhere on your page. So it will be like any other commercial page builder you have out there. But remember I don't tell that Gutenberg is as good as commercial page builder like Elementor or any other page builder because the purpose of Gutenberg is for content authoring not to design your pages. If you want to have beautiful design and you want to add all sort of commercial elements, a bloated page that load in 30 seconds, go ahead use any page builders because the objective here is to make content authors easier for them to design content pages without much efforts or without working with codes. You remember how we add tables in classic editor? How do we do that? Painfully. Painfully. Bracket table, brackets and TRTH and all sort of things. Some of them have no idea what I'm talking about. It's okay. So that's how we do tables. In Gutenberg we already have table block building. It's just not very responsive. It's just tables. You can style the tables. We have buttons. We have a lot of other things in this Gutenberg coming up. I have designed a website Gutenberg.me.my and I put some demo pages there. So if you go to this website, click this demo. You can see all the pages that I've demonstrated just now from this website. There's something called frontenberg. If you click frontenberg, you can use Gutenberg right away without a word press. So if you think that you don't want to have Gutenberg now, you just want to play around. That's a playground. Just click on frontenberg and play around and see how it works. So it just probably takes 10 to 15 minutes to learn how Gutenberg works for you. With that, thank you so much. If you have any questions. Hi. I have a question about the template. So I work with Elementor. So if I design an Elementor raw template, can my client use Gutenberg within the template? You mean saving the whole page as a template? So basically, I will make a template and I will put in for every block page. Saying that my client would like to make some block code with tables. So can they use Gutenberg within my main template? Within Elementor, you mean? Yes. No. So you can only use better because how the output of HTML is totally different. WordPress tried to keep the output of HTML close to the HTML and other companies have their own standard, own naming convention. Some companies, good block editor will only work within a certain environment. So therefore, you can't cross use it. But like reusable block is something like that. So you can save reusable block or something. One other thing that we have in Gutenberg is if you look at this at the end, if you click the menu at the end, there's something called copy everything. So you can copy everything on your page and paste in some other page. But at this moment, you can't cross use Gutenberg with other page builders. Okay, so when I make my own block design, so every block that will be generated will have that design. So I use the classic editor for that. So it's not possible to instead of using the classic editor, you can put it in one block. Okay, I have something to do with that. Sam, I upgraded my site to WordPress 5.0. And now all of my previous content looks weird. When I go to edit this, inside this box. So what happened to my content? Good question. So what happened is that in the 5.0, the classic editor were removed and it comes with Gutenberg by default. So Gutenberg will try to convert your content to the blocks. So most probably you will get a lot of bunch of text blocks or one text block with everything in it. So it depends on how your content were created earlier. That definitely requires some works if you want to convert into different blocks. But if you have so much of changes, I'll suggest you can always use, you can always switch between Gutenberg and classic editor. So those old pages, you can switch classic editor, just activate the plugin to edit that pages. But when you're composing new page, use Gutenberg. I know you knew the answer and it's the FAQ he's trying to highlight here. So you can always switch between Gutenberg and classic editor. If you're editing the old pages that you already done, just switch to classic editor and do it. So you don't need to go through a painful process to convert into Gutenberg blocks. But all new pages moving forward, you can create in Gutenberg editor. You can have both in your website actually. As far as I know, no. But I don't know if anyone have a better answer. Yes. Question or that's a question. Oh, I thought, sorry. Okay, I'll come to that. So just hold that. Let me process in my left brain. So to answer that, it's on the react for some reasons because we're right now, they're implementing autosave function as well. Custom fields. Yeah, there's custom fields as well. In Gutenberg, you can go to the most setting and you can enable custom fields. Yeah, I will strongly like don't recommend to use third party plugins to create another block. So you can always go through a react. Because if you remember Matt Mulan works, called few years back, learn JavaScript deeply. JavaScript is the future. So use react to create blocks if you're really into creating blocks. Okay, to come for your questions about bad reviews. It's very hard. When I was in what come Europe this year, some people just thumb to Matt Mulan work and ask all these sort of questions. Why you introduce days? And why is that? It's the way I see things is that this is a great change. If WordPress have no Gutenberg, most probably down the road in two years or three years, people will be starting to move into other platforms such as VIX or other platform medium. You know, Gutenberg is pretty much similar to medium editor, right? So pretty much all content authoring use block editors except WordPress, Joomla, Drupal, using traditional what you see is when you get editor. So this is a revolution. And when WordPress introduced is a lot of bad comments because all developers, it put a big burden on developers, they need to make sure their teams and plugins now compatible with Gutenberg. So that's where the whole things comes up. But I can see there's a lot of improvement now compared to 2017, 2018. Now 2019, Gutenberg is much more stable. So you can imagine what will happen next three years. So one way they overcome these bad reviews is by giving talk in what camps. Okay, any other questions? Oh, yes. Correct. The best way to find this out is read the description of the plugins. Only the plugin developer can tell you whether it's work with Gutenberg or not. It's no way for us to find out other than the Gutenberg developer. Okay, sorry to ask you a question. I actually heard Sam that the lead developer in a tiny MCE has decided to join the Gutenberg project. Can you verify this group? I don't have any information on that. I heard rumors about it. But there's a lot of people working on Gutenberg right now. We have 453 developers working on it. So the contribution comes from different hands, including the classic editor, tiny MCE, and all other editors. Just before I end, I just want to flash two more slides. What can Call a Lumpur coming up on this November? Feel free to join what can Call a Lumpur. It's happening in Bajaya Times Square, Call a Lumpur. And we have What Cam Asia coming up in the February. So first ever regional What Cam. Thank you so much.


Chris from Tennessee And you're watching TJV Everybody from Balgony, Saskatchewan Got our load of concrete pipe. I'm gonna get to Winnipeg today with it See if they'll unload us today or if we gotta wait till Monday morning. The workday when we get there They're probably like 4 4 30 So we'll see what they say. It says on my sheets here that they'll accept delivery either today or Monday Which ever works best so Might be delivering on Monday morning find out later It's going to take some time to deliver it because there's so much equipment on it I gotta put all that equipment away and roll up my straps clean up the trailer so I can understand if they want to wait until Monday morning, but Maybe they really need it. Maybe they want to start with it first thing Monday morning And they don't mind working a little later on Friday. They know I'm on the way So I'll just confirm with them I'll work two down the road with my definite ETA is Okay Here we go late at night. I just parked right in the middle I don't know how all these people got out and just It's probably all full of trucks then you just parked it right there Some I like to cut driver slack when that happens But sometimes they take it a little bit too far and they park in spots like that where they block in other guys obviously that wasn't the case today, but Make sure that when you park for the night You're not like everyone can get out of their spot still because quite obviously if you're getting there after they're already parked They're probably going to be leaving before you I mean that's pretty common sense Has that ever happened to you?  It's happened to me before so I avoid parking in places like that if I have a choice But sometimes you don't have a choice and it's very frustrating you wake up in the morning. It's like come on, man Come on, man Come on prices have gone down a little bit me to be happy about it needs to go down another dollar a liter The below one dollar per liter for diesel Then I'll be happy This truck needs a wash really badly again. I really wish they'd have blue beacon truck washes Across Canada really like that place truck first one day should be a show truck second, but Working truck first We'll shiny her up at the shop this weekend So she can start next week With a clean slate But she has dirty during the week and I can't always find a truck wash and I don't always have time So by the end of the week sometimes he's a little dirty Six hours of driving to get home very little stopping. I don't have diesel with me this week He's at home though. Just bathroom breaks for me a load check for the home front Down the city of Winnipeg right now free for these concrete pipes is right around the corner from our yard So it's just down the road.  They said they'll be waiting for me today yet So I will get unloaded today, which is awesome There's a horse in the ditch is where we're delivering I guess I see someone else put their load over here This is gonna be a residential street. They're building a new neighborhood here. You can see houses over there already Look as they dug like what four feet down for this road Nice, I'm guessing that tractor there is gonna unload me. So I want to make this quick It's already five o'clock got here right when I said I would right on time I'm gonna get unloaded as quick as I can with this guy and We'll catch up with you guys when we can Wait, maybe he wants me to come down that way. See waving me down Oh, I see another loads been dropped over there a lot of work that goes into building a residential neighborhood. I Don't want to get stuck man You know, they got bulldozers and stuff that could probably pull me up pretty easy, but rather not waste my time Okay, yeah, he's waving me over Empty in part Dollies down everything's off Carps are with me. That's it That's it. That's all this whole she wrote It's actually very quick. It only took an hour to unload took six hours to load it and tie it down to one hour Don't tie it and take it off Let's go home. I always love getting back to the shop. Oh, yeah, we move things around you guys forget. I Did I know we got the bulls not bar over here so far. They look like they've been behaving Not leaving any kind of rings or anything and anything Okay, this is the bar that my cousin made for us by hand for our wedding So it's got some sentimental value to us. It's very special So no tools no tools on that there. That's something you said I should install a tap on there Well, maybe one day when I build my own shop maybe Maybe then Or maybe I'll pay him pay my cousin because he did this as a wedding gift, which was very nice of him He's he's pretty man's the names frame really good with woodworking. I look at that Like me this sort of pallets Some people are just very talented. I drive trucks. That's that's that's my skill If I did that it wouldn't look like that it definitely wouldn't Want to build my own shop too, so I might just wait. It's got the plug in up there And I'm sure because I rent this shop, right? I'm renting until I can build my own I Bet you anything the landlord wouldn't mind if I put in if I paid for it and put in a garage room power garage room Not this month though. I think that money is better spent into a whole blue I still don't have my ring back I sent my ring in to get repaired. They said they're probably just gonna send me a new one because it needs to be replated It's been weeks. I feel so naked I'm still married guys. Okay Everyone else I'm still off the market. Okay, don't get all excited taken For a second. I was freaking out wondering what was on my stack a little red spot right there. Oh Man, what is that? Is that blood? It's a red spot then I realized huh wait a minute It's just a reflection. I filmed that whole ending clip of taking the pickup out Bringing the truck back in and like usual It's crooked. So I had to open the door again and fix it Behind the scenes the trucker Josh It was all for the shot. I had to be in one fluid motion I didn't want to go back and forth in the shot, right? I don't include motion close the door Now I got to fix it. It's got to be straight I gotta take some masking tape or painters tape or something and like Maybe I should do that this weekend. I don't know We're going out on a date Britain. I tomorrow going to Cirque de Soleil and all day. I want to make it a date day So Saturday tomorrow is all devoted to her. It's Friday when I'm filming this I'm just getting home all devoted to like me and her going out and having a good time being a couple and doing a couple things and you know You know Stuff like that Sunday, I think I'm gonna come here and I need to give all blue a bath But it depends I was kind of hoping to find out where I was going next week and if I'm going south I was just gonna go to the Blue Beacon and treated at the Blue Beacon in Fargo But now I don't I don't have a plan for next week yet. We're gonna find out before 9 a.m. On Monday So I don't know if I'm going south or not and there's no real good truck washes Well, there's some truck washes going west. I just don't exactly know where they all are There's one self wash and moosamin that I stop at now and then but I just can't get it as clean as the Blue Beacon guys So I like bringing it there when I can and it's Needs bath so bad. Look at us.  Don't worry. They still love you Everybody gets dirty every now and then Everybody gets covered in bugs, right? Right, it's okay So what happens now? When I get home from a trip is I take all of my stuff out of the truck from like my laundry and stuff Take my bedding out of the truck my pillowcase sheets blankets. Take them out of the truck. They're gonna get washed I have towels on the floor of old blue Let's keep the floor clean. I wash them Every weekend to you see this is The only place where shoes are allowed in the truck on this but underneath this Soon take this out of here underneath this. There's towels. See That keeps everything clean all about put these back on on the tire to Everywhere underneath here towels. I wash those every week and then Take all my my computer all my vlogging YouTube stuff I take out of here cuz I got to bring it home and work on it at home So it's a bit of a process once I get here. I can't just park the truck and run home I can and I do that sometimes but then I got to come back in the morning and get all my stuff I'd rather get all my stuff out of the truck tonight when I get home Bring it to the house get my laundry started. Enjoy whatever evening we have left and then a Tomorrow I don't have to come back here to grab stuff from the truck as long as I don't forget anything here but I Think Sunday will be the day when I'm gonna spend some time here. I notice this here. There's a Check it out She's so embarrassed. She's so embarrassed. Okay, it's okay. It's okay. These are our friends. We're just talking to our friends. Okay, don't A little bit of Rust runoff here. We got to wash off. Don't work. They don't mind there. No one's judging you old blue. Stop say stop it No one's judging her, right? You guys wouldn't do that It's a 2008 pushing 3 million kilometers. It's got 1.7 pushing 1.8 million miles. I think she's looking pretty good Looking pretty good We're gonna get this truck up to 3 million miles or 5 million kilometers and maybe more but yeah, another week another trip and no problems It's a good week ran up to Edmonton or Atchison down to Calgary back home Everyone's happy home for the weekend. It's been a good one Last weekend when we went to go mow down our land We brought this home. This is usually parked on the land and I just leave it there However, I took it home now because it's got a flat tire needs to be addressed The brakes were seized on it when I was trying to load it up. So that's got to be looked at probably an easy fix and I need to change the blades on the more and then I'm bringing on back up there. That's our that's our bushwhacker. That's usually what I mow down Long grass with but the last time we used our nicer cub cadet here I just kept the mower all the way up and was very careful I need to replace those blades anyways when we do build and we lay down fresh sod and nice manicured lawn We'll put fresh blades in there and it'll be all good then but This made quick work of it I'm gonna use this again because these zero-point term mowers Worth every penny worth every penny so much easier than using the old bushwhacker. I Don't even know maybe I'll sell the bushwhacker. I'll get it all fixed up and you'll sell her. Let's just Use this. I just like having the bushwhacker around just in case if I need to mow down some lawn or make small Like small trees even something that I can just get over with the mower and not worry about because I can just replace the blades on that Mower, I don't care about it. It's just a bushwhacker This one I care about it. I don't want to wreck it Don't want to wreck this one Chris from Tennessee You're watching TJV