he two block away addition and use it differently for to free up Some of the useful space that we have right near this center of town So I know the public is probably itching to ask questions But I want to make sure we hit all the things that we've been talking about over time because this may very well be the last Time we're talking about it And I really appreciate the chart that was provided and again Mr. Slaughter drew attention to it after Ms. Brest ruptured earlier in terms of the net loss and gain and also the current conditions We sometimes don't do a great job of showing current conditions and Possible so that I think is really helpful to the public and to us to continue to put this whole picture together Two other things I just want to mention and really aren't I answerable per se at this point one is that the there is absolutely Zero assumption that there's going to be a bid ban shell at this point in terms of yes It's going through going to go through a design competition. Yes It's going to go through a process but I would really prefer that just as I asked people not talk about the central fire station as a future art performing space because Obviously, that's what it will become. I don't think there's anything obvious saying that there actually will be a ban Show on the South Common I think that a lot more public process is going to take place even beyond all the permitting associated with it Before that decision is made it won't be made by this body obviously and hopefully based on the timeline We've seen and I appreciate you revising the timeline too Will you know this all happen before that's necessarily coming into play But I know people also talked about you know the big picture of all of it together So I know some people are really eager to have a ban shell and some people are adamantly opposed to it And I just don't want any of us to be saying there's going to be one because because we don't know that at this point The other comment I have is associated with materials the materials that are that will eventually be used in this lovely raise Different colored paving. I'm sure it's going to be awesome thing I just want to make sure that we are reminded to learn from our experience on our crosswalks We thought that was a fabulous idea Well, some thought was better than others in terms of trying to meet mobility and visual impairments And it turned out to be I would say it's not unfair to say a disaster. It was completely not maintenance friendly and has caused many problems for us, so I just People thought it was a good idea just like that was it was a good idea to put recycled glass in the real trail So let's try and learn from both of those and whatever this cool thing is to make sure Somebody else has already done it for a few years and see how it heaves in New England and and then use it That would be my concern because I really want us to learn from that because it sounds like it could be a special space, so I just said two quick comments. Thank you for your feedback on the band shell We simply mentioned it because it came up in public meetings And we want to be very clear that we are not designing the space to have a band shell Whether it happens or not anywhere else on the common will be up to the council But we wanted to make sure that we at least acknowledged it because we got many comments That said put the band shell on the north common. We that's a significant enough Structure so we couldn't design in concept this space With two different concepts with and without it, so we only have a limited time with our designer The clock is ticking so in order for us to move forward with this process. We had to say that is not Was never mentioned as being on the north common for the most part So we eliminated that the second thing and I guess before I'm sure you want to take public comment I think it's really important for people to Appreciate and I don't think many people do this although it appears on the screen as a flat surface The grade change is though in my opinion probably the most significant design hurdle challenge that we face here and as mr. Slaughter mentioned if we simply redo the parking lot To meet ADA and other standards Requirements by law we will lose five spaces and that's what we should do I was looking out the window just the other day as per your comments and Multiple trucks were pulled up on the south side of the north common parking or then the mainstream parking lot And so that entire sidewalk was not passable for anyone with a disability and that is a common occurrence It happens every day in this town So it's really important to appreciate the grade change not only for the design of the parking lot But for the common itself Weston and Samson has struggled and as a design team We have struggled mightily to figure out how to activate these the the north common and make the parking lot accessible and and meet all standards and You know, it doesn't do it justice when you look at these flat plans if you go out there tonight after the meetings over And go wow, it really is like this. It's a very significant grade change west to east and northwest to southeast Right in looking at the this drawing in the larger version. We have it. It has if the bottom right corner Of spring and boltwood there the southeast corner is a zero. It's plus 15 at the northwest corner So that's 15 feet over the span of that which is a pretty steep amount of change And so, you know, it it is easy when you just sort of look from the sky view to not remember that part of it What one last comment if I could on the word compromise and and this breast up and I have used it multiple times here tonight You know interesting overwhelmingly at least in the last probably two forums The feedback that we've received and the word that was used multiple times was be bold be bold design team be bold And and I think mr. Wald asked how did we what was our process? Well? We heard that be bold be bold translated into get rid of all the parking on the on the North Common and Frankly when we met with the design team we met with Western Samson We read all the feedback that we got from from business leaders and and business owners We read stories in the newspaper. We talked with mr. Backelman on our design team We decided that We didn't feel like we could bring the bold plan to you of eliminating all that parking and we came up with The plan you see before you tonight with minus 11 spaces. So There's no magic to that It is a practical plan that we think gets us incrementally where we want to be and if parking changes over time We could activate the space that the Parking would be the new parking would be created in so thank you It's a wall, but yeah, I appreciate that and I know that you don't compromise as necessary and that's why we're here We do the stuff that people don't like because we have to get stuff done. So don't get me wrong about that I guess you know what I was It's it's we have a messy situation I thought miss Krueger was very important Which he said is important reminding us this doesn't solve the parking problem that's part of my concern, you know because miss Brestrup said to we're talking about 50 or 100 years and This is the horizon.  I mean that's part of the problem and I'm so I Regret that I'm sure compromise is necessary and we have this and I like the idea of converting to someone kind of better use After this but it's unfortunate the other concern I have and you know some of the parking concerns are special pleading in some religious It means I know I complain about lack of parking myself, but I Guess I just would have been interested to learn more about how you got in these kind of things You know, I'm not an engineer, but I know you can fit twice as many angled spaces in the same Space you can fit five regular ones, you know, what would the trade-off have been about angled parking by taking out a chunk Here and making this part green things like that And we're late in the process So I hope we can just bear that in mind because I think the danger here is the delusion that we've solved the parking problem You know, we haven't maybe we didn't we lost a few places. We saved the 19. Yeah, you won't think so. I know but we still have a serious parking problem and It's we're stuck with that here. So and so that's part of my concern. We have sort of the worst of both worlds We both don't go as far as we could to change something because we can't and yet We think we've solved the problem and it's gonna get it's gonna pop up down the you know down the down the road It's like squeezing the balloon. I did have another one. We're talking about the grade change So one of the things that's come up and I believe might have come up at a previous public forum, too is given the grade change and again, obviously, we only have a little bit of money in West Western Samson only supposed to do a small thing became a much bigger thing Was there any discussion about trying to have some sort of by level? Parking because that has actually come out up out in the community that ooh, wouldn't it be cool if we could like park some under? You know the great take advantage of the grade and I just wondered if that had been discussed at all So that I could report back on that I Think that was brought up and it is extremely expensive to do this And especially if you're talking about two levels of parking underground And we know that the ground underneath there is very wet and so we would have to contend with The wetness there spring Street is called spring Street for a reason. There's a lot of water in the ground there The other thing is that we do have some old trees here that we want to save so If we were to put an underground parking garage underneath there It would have some impact on the older trees that we do want to save so I think Everything considered we really didn't think it was a path that we wanted to go down at this point Just speaking to mr. Wilde's hundred years It was like if we were gonna do it now would be that time But I appreciate especially the reminder about it being wet because now I do remember that coming up Yes, mr. Wolff the minor question I know again I realize you got a lot of feedback from people who are very energized about all this for better or worse And sometimes it's hard for us to tell to you know People said like lots of people all people at the forum a couple letters and things like that I guess I was given to understand also that the message was passed along to a North Common Group that the select board had said No, we want you know select board insists unknown that loss of parking or minimal less of parking Was that the case because we never took a vote. We discussed things back and forth That was one impression that was out there In the public. I don't think we passed that along to anybody I don't think that was our impression that the select board said that I think maybe one person said it at a meeting or Maybe more than one, but I didn't really feel like that was the consensus of the select board I didn't think so either but I thought someone said we said that so I don't know where that came from You know, I don't think we ever said it was consensus of the select board I think we certainly heard it from members of the select board So it was passed along that some members felt we should not Lose any parking there while as other members might have been silent or we're open to other possibilities I Just wanted to comment on the fact that the downtown parking working group itself had competing views When I came out of the meeting with them I had no conclusion at all about what they felt each individual felt something different some of them felt very adamantly about Having no parking on the town common some felt that you couldn't lose a single space and most of the conversation had to do with the actual Person's experience of the common rather than anything having to do with parking and that was Enlightening to me because they didn't focus on parking. They focused on what a great space This was going to be in the future and how we could make it really wonderful. So I guess my point in saying that is that People came from all different directions and so we had lots and lots of input I wrote meeting notes from every meeting that I went to and if you would like to have those meeting notes forwarded to you I'd be happy to do that So it was challenging to figure out where do we go from here? Where can we get some consensus because we heard so many different points of view? other questions or comments from the board if not I Presume that some of the folks that are patiently waiting here would like to offer some comments and Suggestion to us as well. And so can I show up hands of who would like to comment relative to this? two three four five will In no particular order start from my right and go to my left for no reason So if you'd like to step up just make sure to identify yourself at the microphone Given the time that we're at I don't want to overly constrain people Hopefully two to three minutes will be sufficient and I'm not sure that the board will offer much reaction We'll certainly listen and take in what you hear and obviously mr. Zomek and this breast drop in the manager well as well, so Thank you. That's what you think. I'm Tom Davies. I've lived in town for 19 years I don't want to talk about parking I want to bring up the the issue of safety And accessibility which I think are both fundamental to the design And the the the accessibility I think speaks for itself the safety point though that may not be so evident is the right now we have a Kind of a tortured situation for pedestrians walking north to south where You're crossing through a travel lane for cars that are turning into the parking lot And then coming to the corner and kind of aggregating there and waiting for the light to be able to pass north or south or whatever you want whichever direction people are going and I think that that inherent in this plan by eliminating That access point into the parking lot regardless of how big the parking lot is Is a dramatic increase in safety for pedestrians walking through that area? It's it's not uncommon to be kind of startled by cars pulling in there or by or for cars to be startled by pedestrians walking through there and I just want to just point out something that is very apparent to me as a planner and designer, but may not be apparent to the board Just a comment. Thank you Actually right here. Thank you. I'm Chris Frye tag. I'm the senior warden for Grace Church and Thank you very much for letting me speak. I just wanted to reiterate We did have a meeting with Chris Breastrop. She was great I'll be a little late in the planning, but I wanted to just point out Three things in a letter that I sent to her just to make sure that they are On the record as well as that for our congregation, of course to lose any parking would be a hardship But again, there is compromise to all of these plans because we also find it very difficult to find parking now on a Sunday, but At least in this little plan that's presented it preserves quite a bit of it There was a plan or it shows in this plan a one-way direction Which we would not Prefer it makes it much easier for us to access Grace Church Having a two-way scenario as well as if we're talking safety, of course, our police can go Any way they want in an emergency But if you have the farmers market there during the summer or in early fall The only way they really can get out of Spring Street is ahead the Main Street. That's one way Of course, they can go but it impedes their flow as well. So I was concerned about that one of the Previous Plants had angled parking. We talked about angled parking in front of the church, but unfortunately this doesn't work for our Congregation because you'll get a hearse for a funeral. You'll get Limousines for weddings and more importantly than that Handicap accessible wheelchair vans This becomes very difficult and it actually reduces Spaces that we would potentially have in front of the church. So, you know the parallel parking that we have While we'd love it to be much more It's been working for us. So going to an angle mode at that location. We don't find Would be helpful. So again, those were the three points. I wanted to bring up and I thank you very much Thank you Next would be yes Good evening. I'm David Mazer our Family is owned for about 60 years The building at 39 South Pleasant Street, which looks right out on the North Common I've had so many discussions about the North Common Over the years with Larry Shaffer with John Musanti with various people About the need to really renovate that space because it was a very ratty-looking space Never in the discussions that we had with anybody did any would ever Talk about eliminating parking there. So I know a lot of people said well, I'm not gonna talk about parking, but I am Gonna talk about parking This is the commercial heart of our town South Pleasant Street The these go way way way back 200 years Merchants Row Phoenix Row, which is is Main Street back when we had two thousand three thousand people in town Back when it took a long time to get From Northampton to Amherst if you didn't have a bridge if you didn't have other ways to get here Now people are very mobile This is probably Almost that maybe it's the most heavily used parking lot in town I Came in here at six o'clock the lot was full I came by at 1 15 this afternoon because I was uptown At our building the lot was full on Saturday. I was driving up the street at 10 30 in the morning the lot was full obviously the other lot on Spring Street gets filled a lot when there's when there's the farmers market With the plans that that is now dubbed the preferred plan We're gonna lose 16 spaces over what we have today I mean you can say anything you want, but that's the reality compared to trying to park today We're gonna lose 16 spaces. Well We don't when we see that plan we don't see Some of the other areas like all along the length of our current town common so The South Pleasant Street side of the town common only has 13 spaces so to put in perspective You know, how hard it is to find parking There's only 13 spaces along the the South Pleasant Street side of the current town common Across the street from the North Common where we are in Asia Hastings of these there's only four spaces there so What do people want when they are? Looking for parking the number one thing they usually want is things in the line of sight of the businesses They're going to that's the sort of first thing that they they're like Oh, can I park in front of this business or can I park near this business? This lot is that central lot across from Oriental Flavor across from, you know Clay's clothing store You know when I talked to some of the other landlords when I talked to some of the other retailers They really hadn't been part of the process When this was was being talked about this summer they didn't know anything about this and they were really upset about this because parking is our Big problem downtown. We're talking on Spring Street about putting up Another building there. I walked by there today and there were 14 cars in the lot behind Pacific Lodge Those cars aren't going to be there in a year and a half two years whenever that building goes up They're going to be out on the street So You know we're we can sort of talk abstractly about this, you know, like you said, you know some people are going to be disappointed but the businesses they are fighting for their economic health with You know competition We've always had you know growing up in in these areas the rise of the malls they built a new plaza in Hadley recently All have free parking all have very accessible parking You know even businesses that aren't in direct line of sight of that parking lot Often talk about people coming downtown and telling them like well, I couldn't find a parking space. So I didn't Come to your business So I think we really really have to be conscious of that. This is something that in Wanting to beautify something which I think we all feel that impulse and we want that and we want to leave a mark on the town that makes it better than then it's been We don't damage the you know the Economic health of the merchants that are downtown and been downtown for hundreds of years When you look at the preferred plan It gains a very small amount of green space in trying to sort of compromise But it ends up that we lose a good bit of our current parking So I just want to point that out and say that You know, it's really a concern and I know it's concern of a lot of the merchants and a lot of the property owners that Basically about that. So thank you Thank you. Thank you. Sarah the core executive director of the bid And everybody's aware I'm on the parking working group and Also resident of Amherst What I would like to Have folks think about is looking at a slightly more holistic approach Unfortunately or not, we've been looking at this project in isolation We saw the little blue box around the area that this designer was allowed to work within but the the problems that we're facing are much bigger than that as Mr. Zomek pointed out they were looking all around for parking So by looking at this project in isolation when we have the big gorilla in the room of parking I think is unfortunate what I would Perhaps request or urge that when since this is not sort of a formal Approval stamp moving forward is that as this moves forward to the council We ask for more information and perhaps see if we can open that envelope a little bit wider and Get some of the suggestions that perhaps mr. Moring has or the engineer Show us some of the drawings for angled parking in some of these other locations show us elevations The other unfortunate thing is we're literally looking at one plan We don't have elevations of the you know something a 15 foot grade change in an area like this is huge So to have zero elevations Accompanying this plan is really difficult to understand So even understanding how that parking angles across the grade change So I just my suggestion would be We're trying to solve the parking problem. We're not going to do it here necessarily But I think if we move forward before the public the businesses and property owners Trying to explain how we're going to look a little bit outside of this blue box To help solve some of these problems because we do have this opportunity it may not come again for 50 years So we can be bold, but let's be bold a little bit bigger envelope here and and perhaps Have some other options and then the town council has a little more information to be Putting this together with that also includes. I believe we're in the process of getting a parking consultant on board So we'll have that information going forward. So putting it all together and looking at this a little more holistically I think might I hope help some of the situation. Thank you I think we had one other didn't we? Yes, please It's George Myers. I'm the general manager at Amherst Cinema, and I too would like to comment out the parking and While I do we do applaud the efforts here to redesign the park and and see some real dramatic improvements We do think that any loss in parking is relatively significant We service about a 25 mile radius So a significant number of the hundred thousand tickets a year we sell do come from outside of this community people That don't have an opportunity to either walk or use public transportation and the number one complaint We hear from people is that parking is difficult for them so much so that people often won't come and as you know Leisure dollars There's a lot of competition and in particular for cinemas people have you know the entire access They have accessed entire library of cinema in their home So if they're choosing what to do with their time and they have a hard time coming to see us They may just choose to watch a movie at home and go out and do something else There's also significant scientific and anecdotal data that people who come to the cinema also are patronizing other businesses downtown So any adverse effects to our attendance also affects other businesses in town. I'd also like to point out I'm not particularly not sure particularly how Amherst rates it But I know most planning boards rate up spot for two and a half people so looking at any loss and parking on a space-by-space basis often Under emphasizes the significance of that loss so 11 spots may be something like 27 or 32 people and for us, you know, that's five shows times a day 25 people a day, you know, you can do the math and extrapolate out Further, I think some of the comments about Retrofitting the space or I guess the opposite of retrofitting future fitting the space When parking is no longer needed here I would suggest that it short-sighted to not allow the parking now and then take the parking out when is no longer needed when other Spaces become available in town I think those are the primarily our comments and That yeah, any loss to parking is a significant hardship for us. Thank you for your time Thank you very much Is there anyone else that ought wanted to offer comment to us regarding this topic? If not, thank you all very much for that comment and we'll add it to what we've received both electronically and in other ways, mr. Semberg Yeah, I wanted to say one other thing and I was waiting to hear what the comments in the public were beforehand Sort of in an awkward way of just stating it so just say it everybody knows that I'm a candidate for council And I've been out meeting with lots of people around town as I have been Going to various places where I have that opportunity is just part of what I'm doing And one of the things that I hear about a lot probably sort of code To what their concerns are about their neighborhood whoever wherever you happen to be So when you get to the center of town, there's a small set of issues that are townwide and parking downtown is one of them and I suspect that other candidates Are hearing the same thing because it's I'm playing some with more than one candidate as I'm hearing this sometimes I'm alone But it is an observation that I made and I think one of the things that we do as we campaign is That it makes us, you know, the value of campaigning is whether we're elected in the end or not whoever is elected hears the concerns of the community and So I just want to share that because I think that The discussion when it comes back before the council is Going to be a lot more going back to the beginning than we would envision or want because the Council candidates have been hearing a lot and I just wanted to share that and say that I guess is a final point that I take very seriously what I hear as I meet with people But and that's that's the end As bro, I think Much of what you just said is exactly the reason we decided it was not appropriate Under the transition provision for the select board to take action because even though it would certainly simplify a lot of people's lives And timelines if we did that It would also not reflect all those things that are happening as as the transition is actually unfolding One of the things that came up in another conversation Was the possibility that as we finished this meeting since we if we look at the timeline, you know we're basically done as a select board with this particular issue is That there would be some sort of memo written not by the select board But by staff that basically tries to gather some of that public that Information that was given to us tonight by mr. Summit has brushed up You know, maybe they append notes from a meeting or not Maybe that's not as useful But just something to that, you know a new town councilor could sit down and take everything They've been hearing and come up to speed on where things are because what we were Worried about by saying we weren't going to do it during the transition is that things would start all over again in January and so It's a valid concern and the more information that you can provide for the public and everyone else To see ahead of time even though I know everybody's super busy and writing more memos is not really at the top of anybody's list I think that may very well be helpful, you know, we didn't we decided not to explore these four things because they were just out of the question We definitely looked at these three things. We can tell you more about that at a meeting You know, they don't have to write every single thing down But to address all these issues that all that we've been talking about it would be Foolish to have to repeat these exact same conversations over again when much of that information could be available In writing to people ahead of time. So I really hope that Staff will try and find a way to make the time to do that To help give everybody something to react to the other thing. I think is important is one of the things we've struggled with over the years is This idea and parking is the larger issue and the downtown parking working group and everybody's been working really hard on all of these issues is When we hear things like the downtown business community didn't know we were doing this That's the kind of thing we hear about on the campaign trail as well But it also reflects back to maybe leveraging some of the relationships We do have like with the bid we're a partner in the bid And so if we're not reaching out through the bid to the property owners and business owners that are right next to the parking lot We're talking about I'm not sure why not because even if we're not I mean obviously we're normally very focused on Legally we're required to tell exa butters about a situation But just in terms of getting everybody at least informed whether they choose to participate or not and some people sometimes say they haven't heard something when really something was sent to them, but I Just hope that staff will continue to think about how our being a part of the bid can actually Be a relationship that could be not taking advantage of but leveraged appropriately to help Get more people engaged earlier in the process Mr. Wall if I could just amplify what my two colleagues have said I mean that's partly why I was so disappointed or adamant about the lack of a written report tonight because I thought Aside from the fact we'd clearly expressed our preference for one You know if we have been doing this for years and some of us have been involved in different groups like design review and planning board We've touched on this historical commission You know we've touched on it for a better what five ten years in other capacities You know if we want much more explanation about how we got from a to z tonight Imagine as my colleague are saying what the poor town council is gonna have to do so the more we have the better And I'm very grateful that miss Brestrup offered to share our notes And I know that when we're on design review board shoot often send out these reports that were Equivalent to minutes. I mean they were not called minutes, but they're extremely detailed So if we could get those documents without any extra labor involved just whatever raw notes We have I think they'd be very helpful for us and for especially for the for the council So I think one of the purposes tonight was to hear from the select board and You know tell us I mean you have been living with us for years Ever since those town meeting articles one of those discussions when it was in gestation Meetings, you know, we've looked at many iterations several iterations of the plan That is that that our designers have worked on and you are really more integrated into the community than any of the staff is So you are out there as you know, miss Brewer. Miss, you know, you all have said that you're hearing from lots of different angles and so we can process some of that information, but it's mostly and I understand the challenge of Up, you know updating or uploading all the information that's out there to a new council I think if I were on the new council I'd say well, what did the select board think and we're not looking for a vote of the select board clearly tonight But I think if you if if you're comfortable articulating sort of where we are and at this point in time I think it would help staff as we start to move forward Because our question is going to be should we keep working on this? Should we put a halt on it? Where are we on this and that's why I thought tonight's meeting was important to hear Explicitly from you, but we did not put a motion on it on it because I didn't think it was right for you to Necessarily be pressured into taking a position you could if you chose obviously you can always take a motion on anything But I think if you're comfortable Sharing your current thoughts to sort of put it say here's where I am at this point in time It would be helpful to us see how quickly a room race In 20 words or less Does anyone want to offer a specific opinion for for mr. Bocklin with regard to this? Well, I'll start I think we could all in this instance say something and I think to let The council and future considerations reflect that we struggled a lot with balancing the the parking need with The need for you know an attractive Multifunctional space, and so it wasn't that we didn't think about it or arm wrestle about it. I Agree with mr. Of course point that we need to look at the parking Solutions or potential all around here is as part of this and I just say oh there goes another 11 or another 16 And that that's still alive and you look that I think to state Some of the goals that miss Brestrup talked about the kind of this isn't the south common This isn't the park mr. Zomek said um What what do we have consensus on what it is? And I think we probably have more consensus about what we do want it to be and just to articulate So people aren't like well. Why why did they do this or what you know kind of what were they thinking in that we explored You know Different things for an active space that was Maybe more structured or urban than some of the other spaces that we have near nearby And so those are some of the things I would want to communicate Where what we you know we the larger community what we've talked about and where we've Kind of landed and maybe Instead of compromised and then everyone says oh then it's something for everyone to not like but maybe we chose the middle path to Success around a bunch of Competing needs we're always struggling competing Other members could add to that. I think that's the place that we're where we've come to and then we pass it along with our blessing right, I think I think for me and You know when I think about the the need that exists at the North Common How its current conditions exist, you know This is very welcome in regard to that and I think that If you're looking at the sort of greed space designs on on this preferred plan, I very much like those a lot I don't have a you know a strong Definitive answer about exactly how many parking spots there should be I think we're in a place where we can't give them all up I'm not heartbroken to lose a few Personally but I and and the idea that the the parking that's there if if other parking can be made available via Whatever mechanism that would be a garage Some other, you know mechanism that might occur To be able to reactivate that space in a different way, I think is is is an exciting option available to us but as far as the green space and and kind of Some of the features that are there, you know, I think that's definitely a direction We need to continue to pursue and I think that it's worthwhile to do that and and I think You know, there's no right answer around the parking I think we you know the council will at some point Have to pick a number And it'll need to be You keep, you know 29 spaces in that area or you don't and if it's less than 29 Then there'll be some probably split vote regarding that But I do think the need of that space to be renovated is is pretty critical It's not terribly safe in a lot of ways both from you know from a lighting standpoint. I think the just the for even those of us that are pretty ambulatory it's a Difficult space to interact with and so I think people avoid it and it's unfortunate because it could be a much much more active and and Positive space in our town. I think that's essential and necessary for us to attend to it sooner rather than later And I think that there are you know as as our tree warden said there are some trees that are in decline that will need to be You know taken down and and replaced and so why don't we do that as part of a? planful attack of of how to reshape this in a more functional way for the community I Think the parking question is exactly the hardest one to answer and and you know personally I think losing a few spaces as is shown in this is okay Not great, but at the same time I Think you know as lovely as it would be to make it all green And I've you know in a number of places talked about making Spring Street and That parking lot disappear and make it all green But you know the reality is that there's there would have to be some parking very nearby that would would accommodate all those spaces So that's not going to happen Anytime soon so so I'm Generally liking this plan. I think that the need to move ahead isn't is urgent and I and I think that You know good luck to the council picking how many spots is the right number of spots my other colleagues want to offer miss wall My frustration not being able to achieve utopia notwithstanding I do want to say that I'm grateful to the people who work in this because it's moving in the right direction You know and it would you know it isn't what I was afraid it would be we should be simply plan 3 But actually because they happen, you know, we keep talking about parking parking parking But as Miss Krugman others have said there's a landscape issue as you mentioned Mr. Zomick pointed the grade changes and so I like the fact also that there's been a reconfiguration of the paths here You know it's been sort of one of them different columns They've taken different aspects of the three landscape plans We saw earlier and really tried to synthesize them and not to simply slap one onto the other one And I'm even though I'm not a fan of parking there I'm glad that we also retained that little bit of a quarter leading to the Bank of America But not making it maybe the focal point, you know, it's that aspect of the retained which is a positive thing I guess I would like and I've said enough so I won't say much more I guess I would like us to maybe to put in that note to future selves or note to town council Whatever it is that we would like to think about what happens if parking here is not needed, you know So it's not because things that end up being done here have way of becoming permanent for Default other reasons and then to second what Miss Kruger and Miss LeCour said about looking really at the big parking picture Because I think that's the problem That's part of my fear again is that we're going to stop here and say it's okay And we need a much bigger overhaul the entire parking situation downtown So if this can be a stimulus to that that would be very important as well this move go ahead then so I'm sure this is going to be a very popular thing to say But I think everything we've set up to now actually needs to be part of that memo Meaning that somebody needs to take the time to sit down and look at the video and talk about all the different things We talked about because if we're just trying to do broad strokes, you know Anybody could have made that up off the top of their head We've talked about a lot of really detailed things and although our minutes often have way more detail than a lot of people's minutes I this is not the kind of thing I would normally expect our minutes to capture all of but I think in a case like this It would be a really good idea for somebody to sit down and really capture I mean we talked about materials we talked about a place structure That's not a place structure, but is maybe a piece of art, but not exactly I mean these are all details that I think are actually going to be really useful to the future council Not just broad strokes that say keep seven spaces. I mean that that's That is too out of context, and I don't think we can expect them to watch the tape So that said since I'm already so popular I would also say that Despite what I heard many of my architect friends say at the public forums I think it would simply be precious of us to just go ahead and take out all the parking spaces I think it doesn't reflect the working nature of this community and the needs of the people to just take them all out So I would really strongly encourage the future council to understand why we came up with this middle path Even though it doesn't make my historic preservation friends or my architect friends happy It's um there was a reason for it and yet at the same time I'm willing to concede that just renovating the parking lot to the full number of revised parking spaces is not necessarily the direction we're trying to go in and Finally, I think it's just important to remind them too that We realized and it came up over and over again at the forums and I'm sure in other sessions as well that This isn't pull out. It's not a park, and it's not Pulaski Park It's never gonna be Pulaski Park because Pulaski Park wasn't placed on a place that had parking Pulaski Park had been something else for a long time, but it wasn't a place They took the parking out of to make Pulaski Park. I mean maybe decades ago they did but not any recent memory and They have a huge amount of parking in North Hampton to shift people to that They put down at the bottom of the hill and it's a huge deal That's why we can't do that here We don't have that ability yet and not sure we ever will and certainly not in five or ten years But I really appreciate the attempt at you know trying to incorporate some of that making this more of an inviting space Not just a place with trees and a couple benches. I think that it it's It's a very reasonable attempt to recreate some of that sense of community Even though we can't do that because we just don't have the space. We don't have the space and we don't have the parking space Yeah, I mean if you're only Machacko at Ms. Brewer just said I really appreciate the work that has been done and I appreciate the what's now called the preferred concept plan because We as a community need to think very hard about public spaces and the purpose of public spaces and How they can bring people together Into the community and that if that they that Making the North Common Something more spectacular Maybe as big a draw is some of the other things we've been discussing to bring things downtown That said I also go back to my prior comment and I think we just have to be prepared and prepare the Options so that we could move forward to do as much of this as we can consistent with where they ever come out Because it isn't going to be our decision in the end and So Recognizing that there is while this is may be Labeled as for the preferred concept plan. There is an alternative plan which would be to Take this very plan Keep the lot closed off as far as vehicular access from Pleasant Street side Enlarge the number of spaces so that it does less to reduce the number of spaces and Possibly with the idea that some of those spaces could be removed and it could be reverted to what is drawn now in the future if there's Longer-term solution to parking just so that they is More clear to the council going forward That there is an option, but it will be it will take away from the greening of Town center into a very important part of town center, which is also a community value that I think that we're all hearing about The term I like greening but the term greened has also come up a lot in the discussions that you have with voters and So I think that it's important that they understand why this plan is here that there is an alternative Thank you. That's all very helpful Forced us into it Just as a summary comment, I appreciate we appreciate all the comments of the of the board and we'll take them back to the design team in the in the weeks ahead I Think a Memo to future self or to the to the council would be very helpful However, that takes shape and we can talk to mr. Buckleman and in the chair about how that might might happen I did want to say, you know, I Think listening tonight listening at all the public forums I'm gonna say, you know, we've been talking about the design of this space for you know intensively for probably 15 18 months I would say 80% of the Conversation has been about parking to be honest and so less about design which I think is just a reality that the tension in the room the tension in broader circles here is about parking in this project I appreciate the comments about a larger context and we will certainly look at that and and take that to heart We have done some of that already, but perhaps we need to daylight more of that that information I will say I'm extremely proud of the public process that we have run for this project I think we have visited every board and committee that we needed to in throughout this process And wanted to and gotten lots of public feedback I think it's been a very transparent process and you know, I hope the board appreciates that Again Participated probably the participants. I would say exceed 200 250 people throughout the the various meetings We've had so I think it's been in a very open and transparent process and I give Ms. Breastrup a lot of credit for leading that so thank you Thank you So I'm gonna do a quick check of my colleagues. Do we need to take another short recess? Yes So why don't we take a short recess? Folks who don't want to stay for the rest of our meeting to Take a break themselves We could still go for hours on this. We used to go for hours. No without taking a break. So, okay. Yes It's more blood circulating I mean With kitty Oh You know, I think that there will be a report of part of what I was trying to say to you. I think it will be great. I think you've seen pieces of it all, though. Oh, that one's there will be blood. Right, I haven't seen that one. I've seen part of the one with Leo de Caprio and Daniel de Luis. That might be easier than dealing with a part of it. No, I'm trying to switch to a different image. Well, you're going to talk about states here today. Yeah, we're here. More parking than more loss of parking, I should say. I'm going to just pull the pill out. Good job, Daniel. We're fading past. That can be dinner. Thank you very much. Sadly, we bought a big bag. And unfortunately, our dog got into it.  Two presentations on this project. And others. And then proceeded to get ill. Public meetings, yeah. Yeah, so she's fine, but it was a rough day or so. That's right. I think that's a good idea. So we'll definitely tackle it. I'll try to be so careful, but yet. But to get them all down and writing is a really good idea. Sometimes she's more persistent. Yeah. I'll send you my notes. Yeah. Maureen's going to write up the design review notes. We actually didn't take notes during the disability access advisory committee. We presented it to them. We took the packet away and I said, can you send us your comments? So maybe we'll get someone writing. They will really get into the year. We're about to go back to the concept. So probably, you know, after the meeting, maybe we'll go back to the meeting. The clock is nine, whatever. It seems like we've been here longer. We started at six. That's why. We had to listen to a lot of talking at us. Yes. A bunch of one-days, maybe something about social services, budget policy guidelines, and our favorite, the State Street traffic flow buffers bumper.  Yes, if he wanted to stay. I don't know. He doesn't know much about it. No, I don't think it's him. And it's... The audience left. Aren't they interested in the rest of our agenda? We're still talking about parking. That's a problem. That's a bigger problem. That's good. These aren't the worst power spaces I've seen. It's handicap parking as opposed to horsepower. Right. No, we're in a meeting. The mics are still on. Thank you, Chris. Excellent job. So now that we're back. Next on our agenda is action discussion item 4b, which is State Street traffic flow changes slash buffers pond parking recommendations. And it's in preparation of our next week's meeting where we actually have a public hearing schedule relative to this because it's a change in parking. Yes, Ms. Brewer. So I'd just like to clarify, even though the public's not here anymore, that we had been very specific last time that we wanted existing conditions and proposed conditions for this meeting, meaning in this packet. We said that at agenda setting too. It didn't happen. We got no explanation for that. We do have a map tonight in our packet that is slightly updated from the one we got on September 18th. So it does show something about current conditions. So obviously I tried to get that in the packet over the weekend so that we would have more information to look at. It didn't happen. And so I think it'll be important tonight to make really clear what it is we're looking for for next week, because as we discussed at agenda setting, the more we can deal with tonight in terms of answering all of our questions and what we perceive the public's questions might be like for next week, the smoother next week we'll go. So I just want to make sure everybody knew it was, it was in the packet. It was in the folder tonight, although nothing was in the packet, even though it was very clearly discussed that information was going to be in the packet. So with that, let's just... Thank you. My apologies, yes. Unfortunately, I think having the agenda setting on a Wednesday afternoon and a short turnaround to the packet at noon on Friday just did not allow for the turnaround of those maps. I will say that the maps on the plan have already been presented to the Select Board in great detail, which were provided by Mr. Moreing. My suggestion to him and to you is that we provide a link. I think the concern was that the Select Board, there was too much detail. So it's very hard to go from the detail plan to a general plan like the one you have before you. So my suggestion is that we provide the Select Board with a link to those plans, which will show you the detail for every linear foot of State Street. So you see where the parking is proposed, where the turnaround is proposed. So with that, I think the goal of tonight's meeting and Mr. Moreing could not be here tonight is to provide the Select Board with a preview for next week. As you know, we've had numerous conversations. We had one or two earlier conversations with the Select Board. I've met on numerous occasions with the town manager, the superintendent of public works, the DPW engineers, the planning staff and the conservation staff. Last week, I held a walkabout on 1017 that was attended by 10 to 12 citizens, residents, I'm sorry, who shared their views on the one-way proposal and the parking proposal. Overall, the comments were very positive. I think there was concern expressed about the location of parking. There was interest in making the road a multi-purpose space, if you will, with travel lanes, with walking paths and with safe, adequate parking. As you know, the purpose of phase one of this plan is to create a safer environment for all users of State Street and Poverty Spawn. For next week, we already have prepared a memo from the fire chief and the police chief. That is already with Ms. Mills. We also have a memo coming from the chair of the Conservation Commission, Briani Angus. They, the Conservation Commission, discussed this plan at their last meeting a week or so ago, and they are in favor of the plan as well, so we'll have more details from the Conservation Commission. Later this week on 1025, Mr. Moring and I will be leading our second walkabout at 5 p.m. I encourage you, if you are available, and want to join us out on State Street, 5 to 6 p.m. on the 25th, we will be meeting at State Street. The plan you have before you is not significantly different than the plan that was discussed before. It does designate an area for two accessible HP spaces adjacent to the Kevin Flood Trail. It also highlights the number of spaces that are available at the North Beach. There's regular and two HP spaces in the North Beach parking, and then there's eight spaces in an informal parking lot off of Mill Street, designated in blue on the left-hand side of your map. In general, the number of parking spaces, as Mr. Moring stated, at the previous meeting would be reduced. There will be 101 proposed for State Street. That's a reduction of between 60 and 70 spaces. Again, this is a conceptual design, so we don't know exactly which areas would be parallel parked and which areas would be nose-in parking, depending on what the area allows. That number of reduced parking spaces will change, but we expect a reduction of between 60 and 70 spaces. As I mentioned, we'll create a link between the DPW engineering drawings, which are very specific and show areas of the exact areas that will be changed. And then we're also, what we heard from both the select board and the public, was look at adjacent parking on streets like State Street South Sandhill Road, Summer Street, et cetera. We've already done that inventory, so we'll have that information for you for your packet on Friday. I think those were the main new points. In general, the public that has participated in this, the Conservation Commission, and on the Walkabout, they like the order and the logic to the plan, the focus on safety. And they liked the, in general, there was a favorable response to the reduction in parking, because I think so many people have experienced the chaos that is Puffer's Pond on those many big days we have throughout the summer. There was a few concerns expressed, primarily by commuters. We use the State Street as a commuter cut-through so people who live on East Hadley Road and, excuse me, East Leverett Road and Leverett Road, too many projects, use it as a cut-through to get to the university, to get to the mall, et cetera. So those are some of the... There's one other thing you reported to me, was that on the Walkabout, many people were, the idea of having that a State Street replicates sort of a park road resonated with people, that it's one of the most beautiful roads in town and that helping to fix the parking, but also maintaining the rural character with a lot of paving or signage or anything like that is really an important feature for most times of the year, actually. Yes, absolutely. That did resonate with a lot of people and I think it resonated with the concom. Again, the goal here is to create safe parking on one side of the road, a travel lane in the middle and then as much as is left of both the bituminous and perhaps with the addition of a modest amount of TRG, Trapprock gravel added, we can create a walking path, if you will, on the pond side at the beginning of State Street and then on the Cushman Brook side as you get beyond the culverts as you move easterly toward East Leverett Road and Leverett Road. Mr. Moren can't commit at this point to the width of that path. It could be as narrow as three feet but in some places it might be five feet wide and it'll be striped. So I think that's the visual you should have is a striped path on one side, a travel lane of 11 feet and then a parking stripe, a white stripe on the parking side of about eight to nine feet. So I think I'll stop there for questions that we think about other questions that might come up in the public hearing. Mr. Stiver. What you just described is that if I understand the path would be on the same side that the parking is on? No, actually the opposite. The opposite side, okay. Travel lane, 11 foot travel lane in the middle separating the path and the parking. There would be crosswalks at strategic places located and they are on the specific plans that we will send you a link to because I believe when they were sent up before they were too huge and they were just massive documents so I think we can figure out a way to have those be viewable. So they show locations for crosswalks. And will the path, do I understand it that what's the separation between the path and the street? There will be a yellow line between the path and the street. Is there any concern from people who have experience with traffic safety and pedestrian safety of encroachment of vehicles on that path? This has all been, I mean the plan itself was designed by Jason Skeels and Paul Deathier in the engineering departments. Mr. Moreing has reviewed the plan in detail. We are talking about an incremental plan here. The situation we currently have there is grossly unsafe. So we have no striping on the road at all. So there is no separation and in fact in most places on busy days we have cars parked on both sides of the road people walking both directions bicyclists going in both directions and then two-way traffic. So I think the way we've approached this is this is an incremental way to move toward a safer environment there. Ultimately would we like to have a sidewalk or designated path on one side that is raised? I think we would. But that is down the road. We have also gone to the tack and got their feedback on this. Mr. Moreing and I have. The feedback has been very positive. I think the concept on this was also to be do as few changes and make a sort of minimalist approach not only to preserve the rural character of the road but in case it didn't work and the decision by a future body was to let's reverse it and go back to something else. We didn't want to put anything that was so permanent other than paint which is reversible. Of course there will be a sidewalk around the dangerous curve at Mill Street from the other side of the new bridge all the way up around and that's designated on the plan. But again there's no funding for a raised sidewalk the whole length of State Street. Perhaps we could put that in the capital plan in the future if as Mr. Bachmann suggests this minimalist plan gets good feedback. We learn from it and then we say well we would like a sidewalk on one side or the other of State Street in the future. Ms. Grover. This is kind of a question you talked about the TRG and I wasn't quite clear in like in some places instead of the paving and so I know it's not like all known yet but my only concern about that is when he's trap rock like that and then it disperses and you know disappears we don't have a really great track record about keeping that stuff up and so I mean pavement also needs to be maintained too but that stuff just doesn't have the durability and then the plow comes so I'm just a little cautious about the maintenance of that. No it's a good point and it's one that's crossed my mind and again this certainly might be a learning curve for us and you know again if in year one we discover our layout is working that it might be again a minimal amount of money to come in and actually pave where we need two more feet of bituminous two more feet or four more feet to make a four to five foot wide path along the road.  I thought that I just meant about the maintenance aspect. Mr. Wald. Can you just get rid of all the parking and keep it green? Sorry that was a previous conversation but seriously I had a question about the just since town meeting no longer exists to satisfy my curiosity when you talk about the 101 proposed spaces you know angled plus parallel is that just sort of based on the math then you'll see how the configuration fits and then another question that occurred to me since now Ms. Kruger's got me thinking about parking all the time I was reading somewhere that counter-intuitively some people like actually back end angled parking on the odd logic that it's half the work of parallel to go into it and no work to come out because you're going forward and arguing that was something safer actually for pedestrians and bicycles and I had never seen anybody around here using back end angled parking and I didn't know if that ever crossed anyone's mind. Well I think if I could address your first point I think what's really important in just making some connection here between or comparison to what we know out in this lot outside of town hall we know there's 34 spaces we know that if we redesign it there's 29 we took our best guess DPW an educated engineered guess and came up with 160, 170 not spaces, places that people park and you've seen it all it is chaotic in some places it's parallel in some places people pull in in some places they squeeze between trees so that is not even all on street parking so I put that out there we put that out there and it's noted on the detailed plans that DPW has developed but I don't think any of us should fool ourselves I think those are safe spaces or approved spaces we've never had lines on pavement that's like the Dickinson thing we talked about where people just kind of self-regulate so what DPW did go out and do is measure and based on an eight or nine foot wide white line parking on the right on one section of this and then on the left is they actually measured out and I apologize I don't know the exact required space but they measured that all out and then they measured using their best engineering where they would put in nose-in parking and they came up with 101 spaces the other comment we have heard and I just want to reiterate tonight is that going back as far as the Puffer Spawn 2020 group to even as recently I met with Elizabeth Hammond the chair of the Puffer Spawn 2020 group and a couple of other longtime users of Puffer Spawn and they brought me back to that whole carrying capacity discussion that many people feel that there is simply to some degree an unlimited amount of parking because there is no rhyme, there's no reason to how it's done out there that this brings some order to it and that when we think of swimming areas both at the coast or rural communities out in the west where there are ponds and lakes very few have unlimited parking you have to come back or you have to carpool or you have to ride your bike or walk or take a bus so I think that's a common theme that we hear out there that I don't hear anyone saying Dave could we create 300 spaces at Puffer Spawn because we know the beaches the number of people that would result from that would overwhelm the beaches and the porta-potties and the system we have there and the minimal staffing that we're able to put on the beach every summer so I think all of those factors came together but first and foremost was safety and an order to the parking that currently has no order I don't know the answer I'm sorry I don't know the specific answer to which is preferred on back-in parking I actually don't back-in park myself so the back-in parking is now the state of the art mostly for safety, for bicyclists and other cars going in it's less comfortable for a lot of people because they're backing into a narrow spot versus backing out into an open roadway in Somerville they have done a number of streets with back-in parking it seems people get used to it or they just don't park there that's really the choices, right? but I think the concept is you're not backing into an active roadway you're pulling in, right? Mr. Sabin So switching the topic a little bit was it an event that was involving people from this neighborhood and I don't know if they went on the walk with you then later or not it was just before you did the walks I actually was generally hearing positive things about the concept of doing this and reducing the number of spaces and of course I have to acknowledge that these are people who live within walking distance of the pond and therefore seeing a reduction in the number of people who drive to the pond in the defined parking in order to enjoy the pond was not high on their list of concerns what was high on their list of concerns is the effect on their neighborhood of parking and I engaged a lot of people in the conversation that afternoon and came up with no wonderful conclusions because they were all recognizing the series of problems that are obvious one is that they'd like to have something that limits people from being able to hang out and use their street on a regular basis and make their street an unpleasant place to live and on the other hand a parking regulation that doesn't allow their guests when they have guests to come in and put me at the Lincoln Avenue discussion actually we previously had in this board and they also recognized the seasonal nature of the problem that this is really a limited period of time so after engaging in all of those factors they kind of said well good luck with finding a solution and left me with all of the problems that we had started with the discussion that I was having and I don't know how that reported with what you heard from neighbors as you walked with them it was very similar and I'm just making a couple of notes on parking as I said many of those streets are already limited parking Sandhill Road, Mill Street part of Summer Street but the southern end of State Street has no restriction whatsoever so that does get parked up on busy days Summer Street does get parked up as you move west early as well and then we have had concerns some complaints from the Mill Hollow apartment complex that people park there de facto and without a parking sticker I have not heard any and I'm noting that on this map we need to add street names here because many of us know them that some of the cul-de-sacs to the south and east of Puffer's Bond I did drive them all none of them have any parking restrictions so in terms of pushing the problem out if people are willing to walk or hike down a trail we certainly could push the problem out from State Street and I think we just need to be cognizant of that and I'll talk with Mr. Moreing and Mr. Backelman about some of their recommendations on that in the previous discussion I had that evening with somebody who lived in Puffer's Circle and the concern there was also that if people started regularly parking there they could try and find shortcuts through yards and then down the hill It's interesting I was just up there last week and drove and paused on Puffer's Circle I I'm there a lot in the summer when Puffer's Circle I rarely see anybody park I have a feeling it's because you actually have to walk up hill on your way back from the pond with all your stuff but I rarely see Puffer's Bond folks parking there but it certainly could happen we could push the problem up to Puffer's Circle I think that was the concern of this one person from that street who came to this thing that I was referring to So just following up on a number of things the last time we talked about this at least according to my map is September 18th and we definitely said 71 spaces then so you might want to just go ahead and stick with that or a larger number rather than 60 to 70 because just be done with it I'm not sure why we don't know I understand why we don't know the largest number because it's not like out front where we just have it all striped and we know exactly what's going to change and I know that we said before there's going to be a car in between a couple of trees but I'm not clear why we don't know if we're going to do nose in versus parallel parking I mean the streets not going to change between now and then so we actually do on the detailed plan and that was why I wanted that tonight because I said at agenda setting that I wanted to be able to have us have questions about it tonight and so that we saw it again and could talk about it based on feedback we've been hearing before we come to the hearing because the hearing is not just supposed to be the place I wanted to be able to say at the end of the hearing that we vote for the plan it makes it much less likely if we don't have the stuff yet and that's why I wanted to lay the groundwork this week and that's why the agenda items set up that way I'm interested to hear that the memos associated with public safety are currently available and so if that's currently available and the links are currently available then there is no reason to pressure me to once again have to do this over the weekend rather than getting that information out to us ahead of time so hopefully you can talk to Mr. Backelman about that I don't know if the public safety memos reference the enforcement costs we've talked about this on numerous occasions when we change parking processes somewhere and I will say in frustration that we frequently get told oh well we'll just enforce it differently well you know we all know there's a cost to that either you hire extra people or you take them away from something they're already enforcing nobody's sitting around waiting to do nothing so I would like to know if those memos don't cover this and I wouldn't know since I haven't seen them yet what what the plan is associated with that is there a plan to hire another 0.27 of a person or is it simply that people who are already doing enforcement will be doing that and just as we always do during various times of years certain areas have more demand and that's where you do more enforcement and certain others I know there's a huge plan as to how you can't have people everywhere at once but I don't like being told that well we'll just suddenly start enforcing it like we're suddenly supposedly enforcing it out at Olympia and there's a cost to that and a decision that was made with that so I just like some mention of that associated with the work and I hope that we'll assure people if they come to the public hearing is that if this does end up putting on due pressure and we appreciate that you have reached out to people and that you have been looking at the different streets it would push to because we had this conversation associated with Lincoln also is that of course people could in future petition to have us post their neighborhood no parking and that might become necessary in some particular section it might be silent, hollow people shouldn't feel like it's just bad like this happens we'll see what happens and then it could be that those things will get changed to reflect that pressure because as you said the carrying capacity is something we're really concerned about and we don't want to just say oh well you live nearby so you'll suddenly have cars parked in front of your house when you've never had that before to some extent we don't protect everybody from having cars parked in front of their house but if it becomes problematic we can request that just as it's been done in other parts of town when it's become problematic for them and maybe it won't like you said if it's uphill on the way back I will say just in terms of public process I think we sent this out we sent out the walkabout notice to everyone on Sand Hill Puffer Circle State Street parts of Pine Street hundreds of people my guess I could talk to Libby last my assistant but between 300 and 400 people so we got again 10 to 12 on the first walkabout we'll see how many come this Thursday so people are well aware of this they were given a link on the notice they got that they could visit plans and call our office if they have questions so I feel like people have been really aware that we're proposing or thinking about proposing some things for State Street and Mr. Backelman and I I guess will address the cost issue and practical issues associated with parking enforcement with Chief Livingstone will be here and although Chief Nelson cannot be here one of the assistant chiefs will be here to speak to the issue Great so we'll have some more links as was requested before even the packets are made available just you can send an email to us with the links and references to that so we can start because it's a non-trivial thing to sort of go through those engineering documents if pretty detailed are there other comments or questions for Mr. Zomek on this? If not then thank you very much we'll have the public hearing next week to take this up in detail so next on our agenda is fiscal year 20 budget policy guidelines and in your packet was last year's budget policy guidelines and I think that given our four boards meeting the other day and the information received at that point and just the timing of when the council will be seated and that sort of thing the idea behind this was to start a conversation about whether we want to provide advice to the manager relative to the budget that he's constructing as we speak because he's already in process relative to that I was thinking it's also in some ways as much to the manager as it is to the new council in a way to prepare them for the process that they'll be going through to actually work through the budget because there's certain aspects of this that are just around reasonable and appropriate financial management and then there are some things that are particular to community values that we've noted over the years that we want to encourage the manager to pursue so I'm hoping to get some feedback from folks about what they think would be in this transition time kind of the best step or steps we should take relative to budget guidelines yes please so I think it would be beneficial to me and I think to the next council if you did establish your budget policy guidelines it does set a base from which we work from I don't think your philosophy and key concerns for FY20 are going to be that substantially different from FY19 you may seek to do some words whatever you want to do on it but I always find that it's useful to have a document like this to say here's how these are the things this is the base from which we started as we built the budget it creates a nice starting location for us so I asked to have a motion provided on the motion sheet to see so people would see another reason why we had this on there so that we could consider voting to do something budget policy guidelines whether it's something like putting a cover memo on it or it's just reissuing the same ones or it's doing some word smithing that motion didn't make the motion sheet but we could figure it out if we need to my recommendation on a separate note at this point partly because we're exhausted from our meeting tonight but also partly because these are relatively broad concepts that we have word smithed a lot over time I am tempted to simply reissue them and say that they are still the guidelines that we are looking for in the future budget nothing jumped out at me if something jumped out at somebody else great and I appreciate that the town manager recognizes this is a useful baseline that he can point to when he's working with staff and say this is the kind of thing the select board talked about even if he thinks we're crazy he at least sees that these are the things we're concerned about and I think that rather than just saying we're not going to do them this year and go look at the old one this one's fine unless there's something else somebody really noticed in particular I do a fund replace on FY19 and FY20 you could easily get a new one update it put a draft in your packet for next week have a motion for you to vote on it the actual words that you would be approving and then that would be clean and you can put the date on when you've voted it and then it would be update I would suggest I'm happy to take that on in some respects and would ask each of you if you found something in particular you wanted to offer or some editing that you wanted to you know if there's something particular that upon further review you know strikes you as needing a bit of tidying up relative to the current circumstances where and then you know share that with me and I could make those edits I really apologize I'm going to have to leave the meeting okay thank you yes I think the one thing that I would look at a little bit more closely is what our suggestions are about the capital policy and it's certainly an item again as I have observed what's being asked this is one of those overarching topics that's hitting everybody who's campaigning but a reminder that you know in addition to all of the other things we seek funding for like Park Grants that something that to build a school without MSBA support or to build or to do a significant change to the library without Mass Board of Library commissioners is not something that we could recommend because of the financial consequences for the community and the fact that that would have on future debt and the ability to do other essential things that need to be done in the community so I can certainly try to incorporate that and I'm in where would you put that under capital under the capital planning projections like 5a would revoke me and I have to go back to it to see exactly which page but I think it was under 5a that I was specifically referring to because we said we continue to support capital investments by other means and then went on to discussion there so there's also H under section 1 which is we recognize the costs including for debt repayment for major capital projects that we're now considering that could also be potentially so that was actually my suggestion is that we actually put it under H and the reason for that is it is entirely separate to be talking about MSBA funds or MBLC funds versus CPA funds CDBG part grant all those things are funding things that are optional MSBA and MBLC for example I think our funding things that we're saying are not they're not optional so I mean if we don't get a part grant then we don't do a project frequently is what happens so I think it's fine that we leave that there under the capital section but since we're talking specifically about the elementary schools Jones Library South Fire Station Public Works Senior Center etc in H I think that's the place to just make another sentence in there that makes that super clear that it will be essential to in order to fund some number of these projects to pursue that we will have to obtain that grant those grants I can do that so I'll take that and then of course if we get that put together in a time where we can wordsmith it again oh no we can't we cannot wordsmith it again item N has two references to FY 19 other than that somebody has another idea it's really quite clean smart of us to do it that way so is it is that acceptable that that I go through and and make those edits obviously the fiscal 19 20 and change anything else unless somebody says something was just the the additional comment relative to right so so but if in the middle of the night someone has an idea feel free to send it along not that it's not the middle of the budget policy guidelines for sure that's what it'll be about and so so my goal will be to get this turned around and back in our packet for next Monday and we'll perhaps take action on it then is that acceptable to everyone yes okay so next our agenda is social services funding update update you on where we are on that so as you recall the town meeting appropriates $60,000 in additional funds for into the social services budget at the time that town meeting was voting on it there were comments made about this was supposed to be to support youth services so I took that to heart and discussed with our key staff about what were the needs in our youth services and had several discussions with our LSE our health director senior planner and our assistant director assistant town manager so what I want to do tonight is just sort of tell you where our thinking is and get some feedback and there's no urgency on this because what we're thinking about it is next year so one of the things that the need was identified as being low income teens especially students of color and special needs for students who want to do something other than sports we do a pretty good job on sports activities but for other activities especially for girls who may have chosen not to participate in sports there's been identified as a need and so that was I won't say just girls could be anybody who has chosen not to participate in sports the other thing that we had as we talked about is that we are making a significant investment in grove park plus we are making a significant investment on the multi-use path on east hadley road to enable people who live on east hadley road to get there and I want to note that east hadley road is the home of five major housing complexes that we don't have an exact number but we believe they house upward according to the census of 4,000 people 81% of whom according to the census are low or moderate income and a large number of students who attend our schools also live in that area so there are five housing complexes and not far away in south amherst are butternut farms and pomeroy co-op so there's a large concentration of students young people and low and moderate income people who live in that area and one of the things we thought about was we're making this investment in this beautiful new park how do we activate the space how do we get people and we have a path to get there so one of the things that we thought about was to in order to activate that new asset was to create engaging programming late in the afternoon there's a lot of program that happens in the day there's not a lot of program that happens people have experience in town with other expressive arts such as project 2050 which I don't know about but they said it was very popular and and so that was the concept of do something at grove park during the summer for late afternoon for for young adults and children to have something to do and to even help them get from east Hadley road and you know sort of have line coaches or line leaders who will say hey we're going over there something that makes people want to go there so they become familiar with the park and say wow this isn't that far away we really want to go there the other thing that we had talked about was to again activating grove park was to have family moving nights at grove park and a number of we can put that up and show some family friendly movies which have always been popular in town so unlike what we did last year with the social services funding where we did an RFP for a very specific task which was food security for Latino families specifically we feel like this is something that we can do with our current or new hires for LSSE so we would not go out for an RFP we would see what we can accomplish through our existing staff when programming for the summer and so that's sort of where we were looking at like how do we get the most bang for our buck in the area that's most needed that doesn't require people to come to us but also takes advantage of a brand new asset that town has invested over a million dollars and plus walking the multi-use path along East Hadley Road so I guess that's I just wanted to float that idea and you know as we start to develop this see if you any feedback to me from you I'd appreciate it so I'll offer a quick thing on the first thing you brought up which was low-income teens and especially those of color in non-sport activities I would offer to connect with the schools because they have another number of clubs both the middle school and high school that is engaging to a lot of folks so but at the same time they don't run during the summertime so it's really more about getting the right seasons that sort of thing but it may be able to take existing service organizations that kids belong to or programming that they're engaged in there or to work with the schools to get better engagement with that set of population into those clubs and what if you could extend those through the summer or just sort of bolster the participation within within that programming during the school year Mr. Steinberg Yeah, I mean the one comment I heard the other day in my adventures around town is a similar idea to the first one just commenting that the amount of money that gets spent on participation in sports and the number of participants that there are other things that would be on a less costly basis per teen who participates in the example that they throughout was theater and arts programming I had originally asked that we have the annual town meeting results associated with this and we don't have them but it's like what $63,000 similar on the expense there were two different numbers floating around at one point so at any rate they're not in here but I do think it's perfectly fine to take a different tact with this. I do think it would also be smart to go ahead and tell the social service agencies once you feel like you're a little further down this road that that's what you're not doing this year because I've already had them asking me if they should be coming to the meeting and I said no to go talk to the town manager but rather than you having to answer all their questions individually send out through their networks the two basic different human service agency networks that that's not what's being proposed this time they haven't missed their chance at doing it and but you could also say this is how we're planning to do it as with staff and if they say oh but did you know that we do this other thing like Mr. Slaughter said maybe there'll be a connection that we wouldn't have thought of associated with one of the other programs that could also then participate or you know whether they got money out of it or not but they might help us bring people together of the suggestion or comment if not then let's move on to our next agenda item which is Charter Transition any updates or topics like updates so we will be sending out very shortly possibly tonight or tomorrow save the date that you will receive along with first of course and it's to save the date of December 2nd at 1pm and then that will also fan out to other you know the other elected boards and I think we've chosen to do anyone who ever filled out a CAF send them an electronic if we can download that information just send that save the date we'd like to spread this far and wide get it into the bulletin for this week and then with a formal invitation to organizations and elected officials and candidates and everything in a paper format in a week or two and then electronically with a more formal invitation we don't have the wording for that yet to a lots of other people we would like to get the word out far and wide to invite people to this event so I think that's the only new thing from last week when we talked about this I was just going to say we should get that out because it's already been in the newspaper big article so it would be nice if we were ahead of it for a bunch of the other people anything else not for that okay moving on to the next section of our presentation we have the license public meter parking reservations and so we have a host of license renewals et cetera and so yes I have a question about the first item I had to send an email earlier today asking it appears to me that we've switched the doing business as and the business name on the first item I would just like someone to confirm that the name on their window is the thing that's listed under their business name so it doesn't make any different I'm looking at this list yeah I noted the same thing if it's any name it's certainly not the doing business as name because that's not what they're doing business as something else I just think those two just got switched perhaps well I don't know what the doing business is because they certainly sent out the invitation which 10 minutes forwarded to us is Chuangiao Asian Bistro was the thing we were invited to a grand opening for so this is what was reported to us on the common victuollars license so we can ask them if that's what they intended well I can approve something that says they're doing business as itchibon when they're not doing business as itchibon I mean that's literally they're not doing we can't present something that they didn't put on their application either well that's what I don't know is what does the application say versus did we have a cut and paste error that's all I'm asking right this is what the application says okay yeah well then I think we should pull it out okay that's fine but then we could do the rest yes there are some other licenses though separate from that one we have a whole set of license renewals which was at 7D we have BC E and F so I don't know if we want to take them in order so why don't I move to do the motion for D just by itself so I move to approve the renewal of annual licenses for the calendar year 2019 as listed in the additional page of the select board agenda of 10-22-18 with the exception of the first item and you know which one it is I'm going to name it actually it's a sort clear so the motion is second second is there further discussion hearing none all those in favor please say aye aye and that's you know this I'm going to move back you want to move back yeah go B and C you want to do B and C I move to approve a special one day wine and malt license for Winterfest town of Amherstoon businesses Jerry Hill Golf Course 323 Road February 9 2019 back update February 10 2019 from 12 p.m. to 7 p.m. Barbara Bills Supervisor Director we have motion to second is there further discussion yes are the hours the same we always ask this the application came in and I no I mean is it the same as last year like are they are they making it shorter or longer comparison to last year I'm going to I think we'll just assume they're not doing it differently and I'm fine with that they don't seem like excessive hours so I'm good with that it's just that it's good when we know the answer to that question well it's designed to get the end time is designed to get through the firework that seems fair so I think that we pretty well know what time gets dark at that time of the year right good theory is there further discussion hearing none all those in favor please say aye aye that's unanimous next one please I move to approve a special one day wine and malt license for top of the campus incorporated Gordon Hall second floor atrium UMass November excuse me November 9 2018 4 30 p.m. to 6 30 p.m. Jenny Lynn Fontaine manager second motion in a second is there further discussion hearing none all those in favor please say aye aye that's unanimous that's 4 0 with one absolute that's right for all those but that's cool thank you for the reminder like I'm going to read the minutes in the future that's not a problem I have a question maybe we could skip E for a moment and sure F seems fairly straightforward so I do not believe that we should use the phrase all necessary fees will be paid in the motion I don't think that's appropriate I think what should be listed is what we're charging and if what we're charging them is $10 a meter per day which is what we've been charging them that'd be great but it's to me it's not helpful to say all necessary fees will be paid it doesn't show anything for our minutes in terms of what we did is that well there wouldn't be any fees for the 12th correct would be an argument as to whether or not we need to charge them for the holiday it seems kind of mean to charge our enforcement officers would not be working that day right right so well and the meters actually say no not on holidays right but the Monday the 5th however would be 4 hours times the rate for the meter it's $10 a day whether they use it as my understanding we don't prorate it per hour but no we don't so that's fine with me so we just need to change that lessons into the right and so the part where it says all necessary fees will be paid so instead should say the cost will be $10 per meter for what Monday November 5th yep and so they owe us $20 right so that makes sense because they don't have to pay anything for the 12th so can we so I moved to approve the request for parking meter reservations to parking spots in front of Glaze Donut 7 North Pleasant Street taking out Amherst on Monday November 5th 2018 from 8 a.m. to 12 p.m. at $10 per meter per day however you want to include that in there and Monday November 12th 2018 from 8 a.m. to 12 p.m. at no cost due to the holiday request made by or I should just say Williams I'm going to take out request made by William Sullivan program support associate for EL education so a motion and a second is it for the discussion hearing none all those in favor please say hi and so that's four to zero with one absent and so that's four to zero with one absent and so that's four to zero E was the remaining one having to do with the parade do you want to try Mr. Backelman and I have been discussing this issue so apparently sometimes parades get approved by the town manager sometimes they get approved by the select board it's the UMass homecoming parade which is a large event I feel it's important for the select board to act on it they're not requesting a reservation they're not requesting to reserve a public way there's some nuance of language which I have because this is a moving parade the police monitor it and they walk everybody through it's about 15 or 20 minutes and so I don't mind making the motion I do know however that come December you'll be making these decisions so I would rather we didn't make the motion because it's not worded appropriately so please don't make the motion that way because it's not what we do we don't approve parades the town manager approves parades what we do and what it says on the back of the application but didn't get printed for our packet is if you're requesting special if you're requesting special consideration for a street closing which as he addressed they're not actually planning to close it off because it's relatively short and they're just planning to steer people or parking restrictions which they're also not asking for so this has been an issue say associated with many many years ago now 4th of July parking where the town manager was in charge of the parade itself and what that was going to be like and working with police and then we were just in charge of if they were saying oh but then we can't have anybody park on this section of the street which has happened for runs and that sort of thing too so if there's no closure and there's no parking then I would say there's nothing for the select board to do it's just a parade that you're working out the traffic associated with and have sometimes in the past used the calling system to alert people that traffic could be clogged because of the homecoming parade which and also of course which is a positive go to the homecoming parade as opposed to just be annoyed by the homecoming parade but if they really don't want to close anything off if they just want to squeeze it then I'd say it's a non-issue and you do your part which is this piece right so I mean but the board did approve the XTCA parade so it's just yeah it is very confusing well you approved it because somebody sent it to us that's why we approved it um yeah and that also involved just shifting shifting people or shifting cars rather than saying the street is closed like we close it for the black party right right so we'll leave that one next is approval minutes we have three sets of minutes in our packet I believe and yes so unless there are additional edits to those I would take a motion for those I'm abstaining so do whatever you want with it just put me down as an abstention no further additions to any of them so I'm going to give it a moment to see if others do no corrections we just could we could point out for the viewing audiences no doubt glued to the screen that the September 18th 2017 minutes contain our notorious decision to increase the parking fees and hours here so if anyone wants to see the record of that action that's right there yes yeah and of course these are the minutes for approving of the ones that were sent in this packet not the ones that were sent in the prior packet does have a corrected version for the one you know so I wonder if we I'm just going to make the motion as stated move to approve the minutes from the select board meetings September 18 2017 October 2nd 2017 October 18 2018 second so we have a motion to second is there further discussion I do note that I was absent on the meeting of October 2nd 2017 but I believe I'm still allowed to vote the minutes so I'm going to just so that we don't have a two to zero vote it's stupid enough so if there's not any further discussion all those in favor please say aye and one absent and are you abstaining yes no okay so that's three to zero with one abstention and one absent so next up is town manager's report I want to announce that early voting has started today was the first day of early voting we had nearly over 100 people vote for the state election and just under 100 people who voted for the local election that seems to be the average and that will occur early voting will occur every day for the next two weeks in town hall plus Wednesday, Thursday and Friday at UMass and then on Saturday at Munson Library and at North Fire Station it's really easy to come in to take advantage of early voting and it makes everybody's decisions a lot easier it's not as pressurized so if you want to participate in early voting you can come in to town hall vote in any precinct that you live in I went to note that station road bridge there has we continue to work on different options so it's really valuable for us to offset the length of time that has been revealed is going to take to do the permitting and the design the engineering and the design and the construction so in order to help share that information out we're scheduling a public meeting on Tuesday October 30th at 6.30 I'm hoping at the police community room that people know about where we are engaged in some if people have other ideas, concerns that they would like to express to us it'll be the superintendent of public works and I will be there to sort of update what happened where we are and listen to any public feedback on that I want to note that the police and fire are actively engaged in preparing for what we anticipate will be the first of two weekends and a Wednesday of Halloween events there will be extra police officers on duty this weekend in anticipation of a lot of Halloween parties we anticipate that it will span two weekends so we're hoping that things go okay when announced that the council on aging has received an annual grant from the state and it's an increase of nearly $10,000 last year they received $38,946 this year they're getting $48,198 the governor was fulfilling a pledge that he had made to them in the past and also on Saturday there is a national prescription take back day from 10 to 2 at Wildwood elementary school so anybody can bring old prescriptions that they no longer need and want to dispose of safely and do it let me do that oh the MMA legislative breakfast is this Friday in Sunderland at 8 a.m. so if anybody is you're all available eligible to go if you'd like to attend they're usually finished by 10 a.m. and then the day before that several staff members from the MMA have asked to meet with local officials I have had two select board members who have met with them which I really appreciate and if anybody else was eager to meet with them we're not sure we wouldn't post a meeting but just let me know if you plan on being there or not also speaking of legislative breakfast on Thursday is the chamber's legislative breakfast so that's probably on a lot of your schedules as well and then on as far for me tomorrow speaking to the Amherst club I think the chair did this not too long ago and they cycle through their speakers periodically so I hope to not duplicate whatever you said the Amherst educational foundation's trivia beat is on Thursday and I think that's it for what I have for you just a couple questions for you regarding that regarding the the the meeting relative to station road bridge you're going to put those on the website as far as events? I need to nail down the room and make sure our folks can be there that will happen tomorrow so I can get into the bulletin as well and I thought about putting it off to give more time but I felt like it was important to do it sooner even though we don't have complete information and just share where we are because we have been receiving a lot of correspondence from people especially in Amherst woods and it was important to give them some place to talk about what they were thinking about Are there any other questions from the manager relative to his report to us? Are there any select board member reports? I think I have a couple little things but they're quick so go right ahead if you have anything. I just wanted to, this was put in the packet again because it's really, we want to draw attention to Amherst bicycle and pedestrian network plan public form number one it's working with Pioneer Valley Planning Commission and our planning staff it's this Wednesday October 24th, 6.30 to 8.30 p.m. at the bank center glass room it is on the town website with the brochure. I really appreciate how much effort staff is trying to get this stuff up and out onto the website so that people see it plan around it, realize there are conflicts for things. It's really helpful for people to subscribe to the notices and hopefully a few more every day and the other thing I wanted to report on is as the vice chair of the Hampshire County Select Boards Association yes the Hampshire County Select Boards Association that pretty soon we won't need to be a member of anymore we had what I finally referred to as a week Friday night and it's not actually entirely gone yet but it's not at this point going to be returning to its quarterly schedule of meetings but I at some point don't know when. We'll write up a report about the people that did come out Friday night and to talk about it but one of the exciting things that came out of it actually is the idea that potentially with some cooperation and a substantial amount of effort by the Franklin County Select Boards Association that potentially perhaps maybe we could try and replace our former senate president Mr. Rosenberg's annual municipal event which everybody found really useful and sad to think will not be happening anymore or might be happening at some future point with senator etc but to work with the new legislative delegation to see if there's a way to still pull that off despite its absence of a year and see if there's a way to replicate that event because we're trying to figure out how not to have people trying to go to a bazillion different things where already going to a bazillion different things but that was one that people felt was missed. Thank you. A couple things I'll report on November 1st the Immersed Municipal Affordable Housing Trust will have another housing forum so I want to make sure to mention that because the first is coming up quicker than I or anyone else's is probably prepared for it in some way I'm sure that will be on the town website if it's not already I haven't checked lately to see if it is but I believe it is. So a couple of UMass journalism students reached out to us and I met with two of them today and did interviews for their journalism class which one of the questions they asked was what are some of the best parts of the job and I said things like this actually quite frankly are pretty nice when we go to events and can do something positive or speak about our town in a positive way is always a nice thing and so I shared that with them but it was a nice way to spend a little bit of my day today working with some students at UMass they were fantastic to meet with. So those are the only couple of things that I had relative to member reports. Does anyone have anything else and I don't see anything else on our agenda so I would entertain a motion to adjourn. Move to adjourn. Second. All those in favor please say aye. Totally is. We're adjourned to 10.50.