Hi, this is your host, Sapin Bhartian. Welcome to TFI. Let's talk. And today, we have with us Roman Hachoski, Principal Architect at Kerry Group. Roman is great to have you on the show. Yeah. Thanks for having me, Sapin. And today, we are going to talk about FinOps or financial operation, which is a practice that combines financial management with cloud operations to help organizations optimize cost and enhance financial accountability in cloud computing environment. We will talk about a lot of aspects of FinOps. So I'm really, really excited to talk to you, Roman. But before we get started, can you talk about the emergence, the origin, the evolution of FinOps, how it came to exist? When companies started moving from data centers into the cloud, they realized that they had tremendous waste opportunity in the cloud. When you're running in a data center, your potential for the waste is limited physically by the boundaries of your data center hardware and software. When you move into the cloud, you can potentially waste several orders of magnitude, more resources. And your move to the cloud can become a complete disaster if you don't control the cost. If you just start VMs left and right, you never shut them down. If you allocate resources that are completely inappropriate for your type of usage, then the cost can get very much out of control. So the FinOps, which is financial operations, kind of similar to DevOps, grew out of that realization by companies that they need to control the cost. And that's how it emerged. The reason it's important is, obviously, if you look, in fact, at some of the recent reports, including from Flexera, across large and small and medium organizations running in the cloud, the cost is number one priority. So that's what we're trying to solve with Caret. What do you think is driving this cost these days? If you look at the unit cost, like, in FinOps, there's this notion of a unit cost. How much are you paying for a unit, for instance, of CPU or gigabyte of memory or gigabyte of network address? Frankly, the unit costs from all of the major cloud providers have been very stable. In fact, Amazon and Google, for some of the cloud services, unit costs were actually going quite a bit down. And more recently, they kind of stabilized. And they're certainly not going up quite as much. So I think the reason the costs are growing up, the number one issue that I believe is the driving factor is lack of incentives for engineering teams and for product teams within organizations to control the costs. And as we all know, humans are driven by incentives. If your incentive is feature, function, delivery, as quick as you can, that's what you're optimizing for. When was the last time when you saw a product design document where cost control and cost optimization was on that design document? I don't think I've seen that very much. I know within some of the companies, that is the case. And they are optimizing for the cost very heavily. And those are the companies that are reaping the big benefits from using the cloud. But for the most part, I think 99% of the organizations, they don't consider the cost. And they're just using too many resources. So it's basically overuse of resources, improper allocation of resources, inability to account. Sometimes product managers don't even know how much their product costs to the organization in terms of the cloud consumption. They get a bill from the cloud provider, AWS, Azure, or GCP. And that bill has maybe rough accounting capability to allocate some of the cost. But for the most part, if you ask an average product manager at an average company, they really have no idea how much their cost to the business. Can you talk about the cultural aspect of FinOps? The cultural aspect is very important. But the culture by itself, you can't just tell people, well, this is the culture we're going to have going forward. I think you need to explain to people why it matters, what it means to them, what it means to the organization. And also, you need to train people on proper practices and also give them incentives. So I think incentives is the number one thing that is driving the culture. And it also needs to be continuous. So you also need to provide visibility and promote the best practices and lessons learned. So it's very much iterative process. It does not happen overnight. But I think with proper leadership on one hand, proper incentives on another hand, as well as visibility and reinforcement of the proper behavior and culture, I think the right behavior will certainly emerge. What are the key principles of FinOps and how do they actually help organizations with cost optimization? Yeah, there are several key principles of FinOps that are quite well understood. And when we try to implement and help companies do that. So number one, we already discussed it a little bit, is collaboration across teams. So it needs to be collaboration between engineering teams, between the finance teams, the business units, and product managers. So they together need to design the incentives, the OKRs, and also KPAIs to measure the achievements. So collaboration is very important. The other principle of FinOps is visibility, because you can't manage what you can't measure. So you've got to have the visibility into your cloud consumption. And we can talk about some of the ways to achieve that visibility, but in a nutshell, you need to provide very easy access to the cost structure and nearly, ideally near real time. So anybody from the regular engineer to product manager to the business owner can see aggregated and sliced and diced cost structure for the project, for the service, for the application. And then another key principle of FinOps is ongoing cost optimization. And that has many angles. The cost optimization has to start with architecture of the application. So we're kind of thinking of a shift left cost concern. You start thinking about the cost when you just designed the application from the very beginning. To give an example, if you need to build a web app on, say, on Google Cloud Platform, you can run it as a Compute Engine VM. You can run it as an App Engine. You can run it on GKE, on Cloud Run, or Cloud Function. So which of those five runtimes do you pick? So the answer, it depends. Depends on the workload profile. Depends on your requirements, on your customer usage, scalability requirements. And you have to decide it upfront, right? So you're shifting left that cost decision. Another aspect of ongoing cost optimization is right sizing the VMs, ongoing monitoring of the usage, memory, CPU, network, egress, storage, all of these components, and rinse and repeat. So you monitor the usage, you optimize your fine tune, you look at the reports of the cost, and then you repeat some of the optimizations using some of the tooling and automation. Doing it by hand is very hard. So you really need to have automation to help you and execute some of the plans and strategies automatically. We like labels, we talk about, of course, SREs. We talk about chaos injuring, we are about platform engineering. So talk a bit about, of course, we'll talk about tools as well. But when it comes to some of the practices, do you also see that these fin-offs practices or cost-optimizing practices also aligns with some of those practices or some of those teams, some of those labels? There's the old and there's a new. So it's a mix. Generally, the most effective fin-offs implementation is when you create a cross-functional fin-offs team that executes the practice, instills the culture, runs the training, planning, and ongoing monitoring. So that fin-offs team usually is a centralized organization. So that's a new thing that generally did not exist before. The old thing is that really everybody is responsible for the cost control. So by having incentives to all of the different groups, engineers, product managers, SREs, everybody is responsible and collaborates together. So it's a mix. To make it effective, you do have to have the centralized fin-offs team and we see a lot of companies in now creating those. And there are ways to collaborate. The transparency is critical. You have to have, again, going back to that visibility as well as cost optimization. So how do you share the best practices? How do you create automated tooling? How do you allow that automated tooling to be reused best practices across the entire organization? So everybody doesn't have to create that will from scratch. What are some common challenges with these teams face or audience face when they do try to implement either fin-offs tools or practices and how they can easily overcome those? Very often we see one of the usual challenges is resistance to change. Everybody likes to do what they used to be doing and not change it to do in a different way or... And the way to overcome this is give proper incentives. So if the team has an incentive to reduce the cost for their project or their API or component, then they will try to do it and they have to be measured at the end of the year, for example, on did they achieve that OCR or not? So that's the organizational aspect. The other thing is we see the obstacle very difficult. Sometimes it's very difficult to get the proper cost attribution. How do you know exactly what this particular component or API or entire product is consuming out of the entire organization cloud bill? So the labeling and tagging of resources at the cloud level can help, but also very often if you do it by hand, it could be very inaccurate. The labels and tags can be inconsistent. So you need to automate it. So generally that labeling and tagging needs to be consistent across the entire company. Their FinOps team will probably control and oversee creation of a vocabulary of these labels and tags, how they're being used. And also really important, use them in a CD pipeline. So all of these resources are tagged automatically and you don't forget to tag something that consumes 50% of your bill. So that automation is very helpful. Another obstacle is again, lack of visibility. If your engineers and product managers cannot see up-to-date information about consumption, it makes it very difficult for them to make these cost-based decisions. So you need to make it as frictionless as possible for them to access all of that cost data. How organizations are kind of leveraging some of the FinOps best practices for cost optimization, or how would you want them to do cost optimization? Cost optimization is a major component of the FinOps practice and framework. And cost optimization, you can separate it in different sub-segments. So one of those is rate optimization. So usually the financial team will do rate optimization using different methods, for example, negotiating a better discount from the cloud provider. That's one example, right? You get the discount for the entire cloud platform or maybe for individual services. Another example, most cloud providers provide something similar to the committed use discounts. So imagine if you have a number of compute engine VMs on GCP, you have a certain baseline. For instance, you're using 5,000 cores and certain amount of memory for those CPUs on a steady basis, but then during the peak workloads you use more. So committed use discounts in case of Google Cloud can give you up to 57% off over three year commitment. But 57% off, that is huge. You can't do that on-prem when you already bought that hardware, right? So that's really important. Another one, right sizing your virtual machines. When you monitor the consumption and you realize you're only using 5% of the CPU time, you can change the shape of those machines, allocate less CPU. In fact, example of GKE optimization, the Google Cloud team published this report. We can maybe even post it in the notes for the interview where they found that one out of 10 GKE clusters GKE clusters is completely idle at any given point of time. That's considering all of the GKE clusters entire across entire Google Cloud platform. Now there are other clusters that are over provisioned. So what Google team found that out of those over provisioned clusters, 30% of these clusters allocate 35 times more resources than they're consuming. So you're basically wasting 30 X of your investment and 10% of those clusters is 100 X over provision. That is gigantic. That is colossal waste of money. They're basically on every dollar that you're actually using, you're wasting $99.  Another example of cost optimization is high availability. There are certain applications that require high availability, some applications don't. So big principle of FinOps is business driven decisions. So how do you make the business driven decision? You need to consider the importance of the application and the financial impact of application. What happens if application goes down five minutes a year which is three nines availability versus maybe two nines availability? Do you really need to put that instances of that application into multiple regions and replicate the data? The thing is when you replicate data across different regions, you pay egress just like you pay egress for sending data to the end user. And also even when you replicate instances and data within the same region across multiple zones, you still pay for a network egress. So there are all kinds of these considerations that require very careful planning and same goes for storage, like Google Cloud Storage. How long do you wanna keep that data? What kind of compliance, regulatory, auditing concerns you have? Should you enable automatic expiration of your data? So all of these kinds of things across network, compute, storage and bunch of other things, databases, they're all very important and there's an opportunity to set it up correctly and a lot of it can be automated and it needs to be automated to work effectively to reduce the bill sometimes by an order of magnitude. I have one example, I worked with one customer where they were consuming about $200,000 a month of a GCP. Well, when the new CPU type, the E2 CPUs were made available that was several years ago, we suggested to replace their N1 CPUs with E2 CPUs and that customer saved roughly about 40% of their cloud bill. They didn't change the shape of their VMs, they did not change the application. All they did was over a period of several months, they migrated those instances to a new cheaper CPU type because their application did not require the bigger, better CPU and that gave them 40% savings on the cloud bill cost. How is Karek helping talk about some tools or how you help customers organizations to tame this cost with cost optimization with the Phenops practices? Karek has engineers and principle architects who have significant experience with Google Cloud, we're exclusive Google Cloud partner and we have many ex Googlers, we call them Googlers, they used to be Google engineers. So we understand Google Cloud platform very well. We also have folks certified on the Phenops, I should have mentioned the phenops.org, part of the Linux Foundation, that's very important. There's a certification for Phenops practitioner, we have those folks certified and we help our customers to number one, create the Phenops organization within the customer environment, create a charter of the organization, responsibilities, create a plan, we help with implementing the Phenops practices with cost optimization, using some of the tools provided by Google Cloud, including building the looker dashboards or data studio dashboards for the visibility of the cost as well as implementing the cost optimization, architecting applications in a cost effective way, then optimizing storage costs, network compute costs and ongoing monitoring and iterative improvements on that. So it's a fairly sophisticated program, but it's very rewarding and the ROI could be very significant. Roman, thank you so much for taking time out today and I'll talk about, of course, Phenops tools practices, how our organization can, of course, optimize cost. Thanks for sharing a lot of insights about GCP, how sometimes the cloud itself can help with some of those practices and helping with cost optimization. So those are great insights and I would love to chat with you again, thank you. Yeah, thank you, it was fun chatting with you as well.


I'm a straight male asking this question, why am I interested in breasts although the process of sex involves only vagina and penis.  So let's begin with the fact that sex is not only about penetration. That's just how we've started to define it over the years. There's a lot more to the body. There's a lot more to intimacy than just the genitals and do you know what, it's all of this other stuff that actually makes sex a lot more exciting. That's what adds the variety to it. Definitely for women, breasts are a hugely erogenous zone and for most women they're also far more pleasurable than penetration. So don't apologize for being more interested in breasts. It's a good thing. Now for your question on what you should be doing or what is a woman expecting when it comes to breasts. See, there are no rules on how to pleasure breasts, unlike penetration which basically has to be done a certain way. With breasts you can pretty much try anything. The possibilities are endless. So just let your imagination run wild. Almost everything that you do with the breasts is pleasurable. And my advice is always that if you're ever in doubt that you don't know what it is that you should be doing when it comes to a certain part of the body, do you know what?  That way you can never go wrong. But the only thing I will add is that with breasts quickies don't work. You can't do this. Thank you ma'am.


Now, I want to introduce our next three panelists, experts and guests on the stage. Here you see Bob Bolch. Bob is an agricultural development economist working on poverty dynamics, household service and food price analysis. He is a leading economist at RMIT University in Vietnam. Welcome, Bob. Next to him, Katarina Kacca-Mikaelaoua from the University of Zurich. No, sorry, it's Abby. You are in the wrong order, shame, but I can change. Abby Riddell, welcome also you, an educational planner. She has been involved professionally in education and development for over 30 years, currently a freelance, previously as aid effectiveness advisor in the Ministry of Education, Youth and Sport in Cambodia, and before that as a senior program specialist at UNESCO in Paris. Welcome, Abby. And then we have Katarina Kacca-Mikaelaoua from the University of Zurich. Katya is a professor of political economy and development at the University of Zurich and also work with the OSCD on education and Africa. Welcome, all three of you, we'll talk about education and aid, but first start with Bob. Bob, is social sector aid focused on the poorest and most deprived countries, would you say? Well, thank you very much. I'm very pleased to be here. On the whole, I would say that social sector aid and aid in general is not focused on the poorest and most deprived countries. We saw in Miguel's earlier presentation how there's been a big rise in aid, and also that the share of social sector spending in aid has also risen from about a fifth in 1990, 1991 to a little bit over a third, 35, 36 percent today. The big question, as you say, is how much of this aid goes to the poorest and most deprived countries. In the paper which we've prepared for this conference, we looked at that issue and came up with four key findings using the latest available data on poverty, aid flows, malnutrition, under five mortality, also the number of children who are out of primary school to assess those different dimensions of poverty and deprivation. And we came up with these four main findings. Firstly, the overall allocation of aid, what's called net official development assistance, is broadly neutral. It doesn't favor either the poorest and most deprived or the richest countries. It's broadly, fairly evenly spread with a slight bias towards the poorer countries. And that is mirrored in our second point by aid to the social sectors, which is also broadly neutral. We do, however, find that there are significant contrasts between the multilateral donors. These are the big international organizations such as the World Bank and the IMF and the European Union. So what do you see there? What is the difference? There we see more focus on the poorest and more deprived countries relative to the bilateral donors, which are the individual countries making direct allocations to developing countries. So this would be Swedish aid or the United States or these sorts. Whose aid tends to be a little bit more regressive. So there's a big contrast there. And why is that so? I mean, I suppose that it should go to the poorest and most deprived countries. That's the best way to do it. And first of all, why doesn't it go there? And second of all, why is there such a big difference in those two ways of challenging aid, do you think? I think there's two reasons. The first is that there are traditional historical ties, if you like, between particular bilateral donors and particular countries. These could be former colonies or countries with whom donors have had special interests for a long time. Or they could simply be countries where they've had aid programs for a long time. But aid is, if you like, a bit like an oil tanker in the sense that it takes an awfully long time to turn it around. And once things get going, it tends to continue in that direction for quite a long time. The multilaterals are a little bit more, shall we say? Small ships. Well, they're a little bit smaller, but they're also a little bit nimbler in kind of navigating their way around the sea. I think the other issue, which actually is the fourth point there, is actually what the composition of aid is, particularly within the social sectors. And what we found here was that the distribution of aid to health and population, we combine those two together, is typically quite a bit more progressive, targeted towards the poorest countries, than aid to education or other aid to the social sectors, which would include water, which we talked about before, also social infrastructure, but also quite a bit of aid to governance, something like 30% of all aid to the social sector is actually going towards governance, which is something which people maybe don't always equate with the social sectors. And when it comes to education, could you say, because we are going to discuss education later on, can you say something more about that, what aid looks like there overall? Well, I can do. It would be helpful if I give you just a little bit of background to what an aid concentration curve is. And then I'll skip to telling you about aid concentration curves for education, if I may. So, with apologies if this diagram seems a little bit confusing. This is actually an example of an aid concentration curve. What it does is it plots the cumulative percentage of aid. This is actually social centre aid for all bilateral donors from the Development Assistance Committee in this graph. The cumulative share of that on the vertical axis is plotted against the cumulative share of some measure of poverty and deprivation. The one we've used here is the standard World Bank One of people living on under $2 a day. So what does it actually say? Well, if an aid concentration curve crosses that diagonal 45 degree line, that shows you that aid is being targeted towards the poorest countries. Whereas if it's below the line, it shows that aid is more aggressive and is going to higher middle income countries, that sort of thing. Now, one thing I would like to draw people's attention to here is the contrast one has between different countries on this graph. So, India on most aid concentration curves, because they have such a large population, such a large number of poor people, India accounts for about 36% of the moderately poor people in the world, but it receives about 5% of all bilateral aid. So it has this long, flat segment. Now, go a little bit further up and there is the segment for Iraq, which is almost vertical. Iraq actually received more aid, about 5% of total aid, but only has about a quarter of 1% of the moderately poor people in the world. So it's clear from this type of diagram, we can also identify other countries and we can also identify low income countries, low middle income countries and upper middle income countries on this graph. But it's clear that aid is not being distributed according to the pattern of need, as will be indicated by moderate poverty living below $2 a day. And in our paper, we go through another number of different measures. I won't talk about these now, but I think you have malnutrition. We also have children out of school for different sectors, but just going to the point on education, what we've also done is construct aid concentration curves for the four big bilateral donors, which are Germany, Japan, the UK and the USA, and then see how their spending relates to the poorest and the richest countries. As you can see from this diagram, the UK actually does quite well in terms of aid for education. Which colour is it? The UK is green and the USA also does reasonably well there, whereas Germany and Japan, they are spending a lot more money in middle income, upper middle income countries relative to the money, which for example the UK would spend in four countries in sub-Saharan Africa. And so that is what leads to this different distribution of aid by these countries. So what do you think can be done so more aid goes to the poorest and most people in need? I think the first thing is that donors actually just need to start being more honest and more transparent about where they are actually spending their aid. Secondly, we need to recognise, as I mentioned earlier, that aid is a bit like an oil tanker. It takes some time to reform and turn things around, so we can't expect these things to happen immediately. But certainly if we think about the post MDG post 2015 agenda, if we can start thinking about some of those things and how to monitor these things better, how to make aid allocations more transparent, how to hold governments more accountable, so they actually do what they say they're going to do, we can start to set the framework in mind. Katja, some remarks on this before you start on? I think actually we're going to get to a couple of points where I can point back to what you said. For instance, the way donors tend to allocate aid sometimes may be also due to different incentives to different countries. When Sharon asked about why would multilaterals spend aid differently than bilaterals, I thought of it more from within education, like when would they spend more on tertiary rather than on primary, etc. But I think I'll perhaps get to some additional answers on that when we go on. Because Katja, you have actually studied how aid works for education. So what can you say about this? Did aid help kids to go to school actually? So actually this is a first glance of aid on the red lines and the blue lines show you the enrollment rates for different regions in the world. And I think at a first glance that's some kind of good news for aid in terms of quantity. On the upper parts, well actually the enrollment rates, primary enrollment rates haven't changed much, but they're already pretty high to start off with. And in the lower parts, South Asia, Sub-Saharan Africa and North African region, there you basically see the two lines trending together. So this could be a pure trend, but it's already good news to see that it's not kind of the opposite direction because that would make us feel that there could be a problem. So I guess it's not too bad news from this first picture, whereas of course we also see already from the top left chart that there are countries where a lot of spending has been done. Also, at least in terms of primary education quantity, there wasn't much to change. So that also already gives us an idea that probably not everything is about quantity or that also there could be inefficiencies by, as you said, maybe spending on the wrong countries. If you want to spend money, if you want to focus on primary education, and this is what all these MDG2 education for all was primarily about. So if this is really the international community's key objective, then of course you should not expect these kind of things to happen because then the key objective should be primary enrollment, and then you should probably go for these lower region countries where you have something to improve. So I think this is one of the first points where we get together in some way, right? So what worked? Yeah, this is one slide I showed, and this is now getting back to actually things that have been said in the first panel here about complementarities because this is also something we found. I looked at different types of educational spending for instance spending on infrastructure and spending on training, spending on primary education and spending on secondary education. And as it turns out, for some of these categories like training versus infrastructure, actually the data are not so sharply distinguishable, so it's more difficult to establish these complementarities. But for primary and secondary education, it actually came out pretty clearly. At least now that for most countries primary education is already at quite some level. I mean we saw, I think in Miguel's or in Fin's charts, I don't remember so well anymore, that nowadays we already have reached quite something in terms of overall primary enrollment. So nowadays you have to keep thinking about what's going on after that. And what this graph here shows, I can't point it at, but you see the increasing line. And on the lower axis you have aid for secondary education and on the y-axis you have the effect of aid on primary education. And actually what this graph shows is that, well it's only for some spending on secondary education that also spending on primary education now still is effective. So you have to have a combination of the two to make it work. And you could draw this chart the other way around if you spend a lot of secondary education but you have no primary education, no basis for that. Of course your aid on secondary education also won't work. So these things, I mean you have to look at where a country stand and then at some appropriate point of time think further. And I think this was one of the key elements of where we thought things might work. There is one very tricky issue in the same context. I thought, well maybe secondary education provides you an incentive to go to primary education in the first place because you feel well then I can go on, I have some perspective, I can get a good job later on. But then I was wondering how will this move on in the future? Maybe at some point secondary education will be saturated as well then everyone will want to move into tertiary education. And then what? If we don't have the jobs, if we don't have simultaneous labor market development, or and that was one of the things I was a bit concerned about, there's also a lot of aid going into vocational training. And you could think it should have the same effect like secondary education. It should be somewhere people can go after that with their primary education and then move on and find some appropriate job for their economy later on. And that is something we don't see. So I thought that a little concerning here. So what happens then with vocational trained people? I don't know. There are no jobs. I don't know that because we haven't looked at the effect on the labor market, but at least it doesn't seem to generate for the moment these kinds of complementarities between different types of aid, which for me was a concern. And for me might mean that people in these countries still don't really see the vocational part of the economy as something they want to go to. It's maybe not incentivizing enough. So you know how many that people have enrolled and for primary education especially, but do we know if they learn anything or what the quality of education is? I have these charts and I think our minister from Rwanda will be very happy to see the chart because Rwanda is on the top left and it's actually the one example out of that chart which has a very positive outcome. This chart shows again on the X axis, the number of years in school and on the Y axis the share of people who have been asked in household surveys about whether they can read and write. It's actually just a matter of reading three, four little sentences and you have two different ways of testing that and that's why we have two lines which don't always give exactly the same results. And I've drawn these little dotted lines where approximately you have the end of primary education. So you would usually want people even after three, four years after they leave primary education when they have gone through a full cycle to be able to read at least three, four simple sentences. And in Rwanda that happens. I mean those guys who have gone through six years of education, they actually pretty much at 100% being able to do so. Whereas you see for Senegal right next to it that the share after five to six years of education, a couple of years later asked in these household surveys, they only get to what is that 50, 60% or something to be able to do so. And for chart it's even worse and also for Kenya it's not that splendid. So you see that there is a problem. There's actually a big problem and there is a lot of variety between countries. I drew this chart from a dissertation in Dijon. There are more countries in there. So this girl took the trouble to go through all these household surveys and create these different charts. But these are just some examples and they're not, I mean I didn't choose the worst ones. But do you think they don't learn from each other? Like Senegal doesn't learn from the Rwanda example, how to make it well or? There's very little learning going on across countries and it's very difficult also. I mean of course they come from different backgrounds and the education systems are structured a lot according to colonial history and stuff like that. So there's a lot of difference in how they are structured. And Rwanda of course is again a very special case. So what did you find the most unexpected here in your survey? In fact for both quality as well we found when we tried to analyze that which is more difficult because they're not such good data. I mean even for enrollment the data are not that great but for quality having comparable data is a challenge in Africa. But we did some analysis in this context and we found similar things that again there might be complementarities. There again there seems to be like an incentive to do well in primary education if you have well an outlook onto secondary et cetera. So these things were similar but then when you look at how aid is actually distributed and now we get to the tertiary versus primary issue. Now look at the lines here. What would you imagine what the top line is? If you can't read it we could actually make this test with the voting here. You have to vote by arms. Having education for all and MDG to et cetera wouldn't you think that primary education should be the top line of all these eight categories going into education? And guess what it is? It's actually tertiary education. Oh really? So that's kind of a surprise. Then the following line the dark blue one is primary education. And then secondary education of which I just showed that it's so important now as kind of the second step to follow the primary education where we should think that now maybe we would invest more into that. That's the pink line. So that's very much down at the bottom. So again one would wonder what are the incentives? Why do donors put so much money into tertiary? While they all say they want to promote primary education. And I think there is an incentive issue here. You want to train the diplomats you're going to talk to later. Even within the countries I think there are incentives to have well the elite well trained who is going to support the government, et cetera. Interesting, thank you. Abby you are going to talk about major challenges in education and we just heard there are some. What do you think is the greatest challenge to education? Well I've picked out six and I think this is a really good starting point together with the previous presenters in terms of the things that I would like to emphasize. This chart is a really good example of flavors of the month by donors and the lack of systemic support for an education system. So if you look at tertiary education indeed on the left hand side hey whatever happened and yet they were trying to provide support to primary education in the old days but if they didn't produce any teachers and secondary education was so denuded well isn't it interesting that quality is so poor? So Rwanda gets full marks for having done well. I go back to my first experience what I would call the first EFA which was in Africa in Zimbabwe and over two years you raised the kind of enrollment levels that we've seen after MDGs. Five years after independence a third of the schools that had been built in those first few years were denuded because parents sent their kids elsewhere they knew that the quality was so low just like what was said earlier if you listen to the people and you're actually modeling your support on what their needs are rather than what you're writing about in your book for your accountability and doing the research that you need because it's actually contingent upon the donor support that you're giving you get a very different picture and those are some of the challenges that I would like to present that have to do not so much with the problem of aid and donors and recipients but the donors themselves it was also raised this morning about coordination amongst donors. I remember addressing and I think it was the year 2000 the International Working Group on Education which is the group of all major donors to education in the world and I said to them and this was really at the very beginning of the new aid modalities when swaps and budget support were just coming out I said what would it take you as a donor to tell another donor that what they were doing wasn't supportive of the commitments that they had made in the swap? Jump ahead to 2005 and the Paris Declaration what have we seen in terms of the actual realization of those commitments? So yeah, we can talk about budget support not having been the answer but did we even try it? Did we actually get the coordination? Okay, I'm talking about aid effectiveness let me go back now to what are the challenges to education aid? The two big, oh sorry it's me I'm sorry, the two big issues are quality and sustainability both of which we've talked about we talked about sustainability in the previous session and these are really the words let me just pick apart those in some ways. The first thing and this was also raised earlier this morning the superimposition of donor projects even when there exist national education development plans and even when they do accord with the goals given the different accountabilities so you come along and you say there's your plan, okay I'll support textbooks in this region another donor comes along you need a teacher training institute over here well it's like support for malaria you know the skewed aid budget what happens to the bits that don't get supported? What is the minister of education to do when that happens? Lack of coordination, lack of alignment lack of harmonization all the things that the donors in 2005 signed up to that were not realized and I say that as somebody who held the flag up as the swap lady in many countries you know at the very beginning with 25 million pounds in my pocket in 1998 in Zambia where we had one of the first education swaps following indeed the health basket funding I used to use the term pool rather than basket for one good reason this maybe is partly the difference between health and education in a pool if you pour money in you can't distinguish the bottles in a basket like a picnic basket you can have a bottle of wine next to a bottle of apple juice and that's part of the problem that I'm also gonna raise about even what happens when you do get that level of coordination it's having those separate bottles and you wanna know whether they're half full or half empty nearly half of all ODA to education is still in project form not withstanding raising the flag for all the new aid modalities donors are still very worried about whether their monies are being well spent we've also talked already about the short time span to achieve impact when we all know that education change and impact is generational and related to that something that has certainly been emphasized in the social sectors is the mobility of the staff and personnel that donor agencies have on the ground you know I know is having had many hats that I've worn in my 30 odd years as a donor, as an academic, as a UN professional whatever that you just get to know a place and then you're out and part of the problem as you have mobility and also the deep professionalization of those that are in country is the fact that you're then having as an institution to create best practices that you can export from one country to the other because you don't have the time to develop and mentor the expertise that you need to ensure that the programs that you are supporting are the right ones for that country I'm actually sick to death of the word best practice because what we really don't know is sufficiently the necessary contextualization and I don't just mean whether they have six or seven years of primary education or whether you know the ethnic groups in one corner of the country are not being included but something that is much more indigenous and much more representative of the other thing that came out this morning which was national leadership and ownership of those development plans but sure enough you can have a development plan but if it's not something that you know the nationals actually believe in and rather is something that is a tick box that is necessary as indeed the you know a global program on education what used to be called the FTI is touted as the most effective and yet they have a three year timeline which really limits what you're able to do other challenges besides those timeline systemic projects and so forth is the focus on quantitative indicators enrollments and access with insufficient attention given to quality this is what happened when you know the EFA became the MDG I'm sorry but there's a story to be told about what happened you know in the you know discussions of how the MDGs And please explain what EFA and MDG is I'm sorry education for all came out of well actually going back you know 20 years but in 2000 there was in Dakar a big you know grouping of you know all the you know countries and donors that said you know we want not just primary education for all but a quality education for all with all of the bells and whistles of what an education system needs what happened with the millennium development goals was a real you know narrowing of that to primary education and then the donors got onto the bandwagon and moved okay enrollments let's see impact and what we have our real achievements I wouldn't deny that but we're also having to focus now rather belatedly on the quality that wasn't provided at the same time now and this is in my next point on the slide we're looking at quality but as determined and measured by agency please note I say represented perhaps by superimposed goals and maybe lip service that is paid to genuine dialogue with recipients my greatest worry to be frank is that we've replaced measuring learning achievement by our agencies that are going out to countries with our as we said earlier our companies that are being supported by our aid monies superimposing on you know poor examinations branches that may have one or two people that have the capacity to develop their own exams and of course say yes because the money is riding on it are they given the support necessary to develop the sustainable I make the point capacities to develop their own examinations that they do need without any question I'm not belittling the need for learning achievement please don't misunderstand me but the donor relationship is clouding yet another important area teachers training status and salaries many of you may have read about the use of contract teachers and indeed many of the randomized control trials that have shown the contract teachers work again one country's needs will be very different from another you know where you have inflated salaries and teachers are on more than a living wage it's a different issue from where teachers cannot be expected to be in the classroom because they can't keep bread on the table for their families so surprise surprise that many of the teacher methodologies that are being taught just go out the backdoor because either the teacher isn't there or they don't have the time to even implement them so are we paying lip service to the quality that is needed I think so and then this is a real a radical statement on my part the final one about challenges to education inappropriate use of evidence within the policy framework it's super imposition without genuine local ownership I am also sick to death of having research or monitoring and evaluation that is totally part and parcel of the aid program where one of us will be employed to go out and set up a research project and we have maybe you know lip service paid to the enumerators that are on the ground to actually collect the data and translate into the language what needs to be done you go back you analyze it you know in your office you then come back and it may be something that's over three to five years and you show wonderful results the minister of education sits around the room and he tells you well that's great and then you try to get some kind of a dialogue of what that would mean to implement the policy in a sustainable way when the donor funds aren't there and there's silence in the room and why is there silence in the room because again this is something that is showing impact but for whom and with what kind of ownership and what kind of analysis that is really being done by those who need to go through that kind of level of capacity development that actually brings about the sustained capacities to determine what the priorities are rather than respond to what is on a plate of options that donors bring to the table I'm gonna jump ahead because although I have a lot to say about what we have learned about what works and what doesn't work I think it can be encapsulated very much in the kinds of changes that need to come about in an aid system that not myself but as a kind of it's on two slides I hope you can read this interesting research it was done it's called time to listen hearing people on the receiving end of international aid it was done a few years ago if you look on the left hand side I think it fairly well describes the aid system as we know it it's entitled externally driven aid delivery system and on the other side is aid as some of us who are old and jaded and really frustrated that things keep going the same way and many of our young things that we're training keep asking us questions that we answered 30 years ago but because they don't even have the history of what had gone before no less the experience of implementing them something that we call collaborative aid system so if you look on the left and you see local people seen as beneficiaries and aid recipients and you look on the right and you see local people seen as colleagues and drivers of their own development I think this reads a lot into what you were saying earlier about water and sanitation it says the same thing about education and health but I think you know as you said to me Katya everybody and this is the thing about education feels that they know what's best about education so you know they come out on the plane and they say this is what you need to do very much like if I can be an incendiary Michael Gove is trying to do in my country in the UK right now evidence-based policy making where's the research behind it let's learn that lesson before we start doing the same around the world thinking that it goes like that focus on identifying needs focus on rather supporting and reinforcing capacities and identifying what those local priorities like the story that you know Dr. Butta made about no health expenditure well actually we dug a well because they knew what they wanted same goes for education you've got a lot on the slides there that you can refer to I will only just quickly say capacity development is the biggest blind spot not for lack of funding the blind spot in terms of the challenge to aid to education it shouldn't be seen as a collateral objective a gap filler, a preliminary something that is done for individuals it has to be systemic it has to be nationally led it has to be long term it cannot be the way it has been done we need to criticize ourselves those of us and myself I've had every hat worn in training people in ministries of education as an academic, as a project supervisor, as a donor, whatever and I'm going to give you one quote that comes from a review of a huge amount of USAID education projects in the rush to scale up in a cost effective way there is a tendency to look for a formula instead of recognizing that the human process of developing ownership strengthening new behaviors and changing systems is done at province by province district by district and school by school levels let's have a little humility and show that those who really are to be changed have a few ideas themselves rather than getting off the plane and trying to teach them what their grandmother knows and how to suck eggs thank you Abby there is a lot of frustration out there yes now we have like 15 minutes for some comments we'll start on the stage with comments if you have comments here or there please raise your hands and you will get a microphone and this gentleman here, wait sit, you can stay sitting because I will start with Katja and Bob, yes Katja there is challenges, we have been trying to sort out now for the last at least two decades I suppose is, I mean when we want to have these collaborative aid efforts I mean it's easy to say that and it's easy to have that with a country which shares the same opinion than those who want to come in the country and help from the outside and then of course there is this whole issue about the donors themselves not having the same interests and the same ideas, et cetera but even leaving that apart and just looking at the well the government side itself it's kind of complex I mean of course you're aware of that I'm sure but I still want to put up the point for instance when you get we once got into a discussion with the Cameroonian Education Minister and it was an issue about basically well whom education in the country and whom education spending should be allocated to and the issue was about quality and the idea was that the country might be spending too much on those schools within the capital or the bigger cities who anyway were basically catering to the richer kids and then the response was well when we off the Cameroonian Minister when we were young we were sent into the woods and only the best survived saying well I mean well we focus on those who have something and well let's see for the rest if you get these kind of responses then what do you do? Don't you invest in aid in Cameroon because you think it's anyway I mean you won't get to a collaboration with this kind of people or do you still go for it and then obviously it will be donor driven and I think this is an issue we still haven't sorted out really how to go about this Bob just one reflection from what Abby and I were talking about over coffee which was that there is a contrast between how budgetary support and swaps have worked in some countries which have very strong governments I'm particularly thinking of a country I've worked for a long time and work now, Vietnam where if you have a strong government which is very proactive and is prepared to tell donors very clearly what they want and to reject certain things how that can lead to a much more cohesive system I think there's a couple of things which are important here I've mentioned that they need to be government led needs to have active participation of both local and national NGOs to add a sense of perspective they need to meet on a regular basis the former minister from Rwanda said they met once a year I said that meeting these sector support groups at least quarterly, preferably more than that will be necessary to meet a genuine understanding and that can also contribute to selectivity in terms of the number of donors one of the great problems with aid is that it is extremely fragmented every donor wants to be doing something in every sector in nearly every country if a substantial commitment in both time and money is required to a sector support group that can often make donors think twice about whether we really want to become involved in sector X in country Y thank you, I really want to let the floor in so where are the microphones now? one and where is the other microphone? there, so I start with you and then you I will take, wow we'll take three comments one, two, and we'll try all five of them let's start, we'll see what we get yes, short comments or questions please very short comments first my name is Francis Matambalia and I'm from the Nordica Africa Institute but I'm Tanzanian also so let me say that it's a bit surprising what was presented I think is by the lady in green because I thought that for quite some decades now primary and secondary education in particular these are private goods they're no longer public goods they don't really enjoy the same kind of attention in terms of support as tertiary education so I was wondering to which extent whichever you find in the crafts is more of a coincidence than a reality in the many graphs you had there and of course I cannot agree less with the lady at the middle I think she said it all in terms of how everything is done nowadays I think there is a lot of donor decision of everything they come up, for instance at the university they'll come with even research themes and if you want to be considered maybe for a master's degree or PhD degree scholarship in Sweden you must fit yourself in and they have decided they say okay you're Africa we think that you need microfinance you don't need development finance so I'll stop there okay next there, thank you hello hello my name is Joshua I live in Stockholm I have a problem here I just want to make an allusion to what they just said there there is always this question about the number of enrollment in primary schools in Africa I think that the focus should be on the quality of education in Africa, I have a problem I'll just make a perspective of myself in the early 80s we had the best primary schools in the rural areas the best teachers in the rural areas but as of now if you go to the primary school in the rural areas they are all gone, they are all destroyed they are no trained teachers they have only PT teachers with first school living certificate so I tend to doubt where they get the statistics sometime when they talk about education in Africa she just said about Cameroon, I'm from Cameroon it's chaos in my homeland the quality is going down drastically every day and you know the highest number of students or whatever they come from rural areas and now they are no primary school teachers in a division of about 10,000 people you have 10 secondary schools, 50 primary schools those are not policies and how does Donald reflect on these issues? so that is the question thank you, an interesting challenge two more who has the microphone? thank you my name is Anders Molin and I work with health here at SIDA I think it's really interesting that so much of the discussion so far has been on aid efficiency and I have two comments on that the first one is that maybe we should stop having any hopes of the possibility of governments to move forward on aid efficiency because we now see the results so many years after the Paris Declaration and behaviors of bilateral donors hasn't really lived up to any of the expectations that we had in the beginning the only way forward as it seems according to the discussion here as well is increasing national ownership to the point where countries actually say no to money and then how to do that is another issue so that's the first the second one is related and that is that when it comes to resource transfer to low and middle income countries I think we need maybe to or I do think that we need to create global mechanisms that can replace bilateral aid because it's obvious that from a political reason governments, donor governments find it much easier to that it is the international mechanisms and the multilateral mechanisms that actually follow the Paris and Accra principles rather than doing it, than them doing it themselves Thank you, one last comment and then I want to give well no we have one last, sorry Yes, thank you, my name is Mika Lvikeng, I work with the Swedish Mission Council Development Corporation, organization My question is perhaps mostly directed to Katarina and it's a question relating to to a study that came out last year by an Indian social scientist called Krishna and it's written a report called One Illness Away, Why People Become Poor In this study, one of the points that he's making is that education is not always primary education and secondary education is not always leading to development or to poverty eradication above all you don't see poverty reduction as a result of more people being, having education and I would like to ask you what you have seen in your research and perhaps from the other panelists also what you think about that issue if there is if this lack of link between education and poverty eradication actually exists what do you think about that? Okay, let's see who wants to start, Abhi Okay, well I'll take a bit about global mechanisms I couldn't agree more but I mean the real problem is whether we can actually get agreement that has teeth you know unless you have some kind of mutual accountability amongst donors whether it's in country or whether it's global in terms of how it's activated I've tried, I've basically given up I spent a year as a defectiveness advisor to the ministry in Cambodia and I followed in the subsequent year and a half since I've been away what has happened with a lot of the plans that I set afoot which were to bring in principles of behavior to try to give more ownership to the government whether on the government side or on the donor side the government doesn't want to know because basically they don't want to criticize the donors the donors don't want to know because they don't want to criticize each other I don't know where you go from here I don't think it as we've seen well I'm not sure it was in these yeah it was in your graphs earlier maybe it was Miguel's you know the percentage that goes into multilateral aid that's been the easy fix certainly for DFID to get rid of the amount of money for the commitment that it's made whether that's made the difference I have a lot of questions I have a lot of questions over what I described as the necessary best practices when on the one hand you're having to spread more money around to more countries with fewer professional staff to decide how that is spent and to look at it thank you Bob I'd make two comments to our colleague from CEDA he mentioned about countries sometimes having the courage to say no to aid I think that's a very good point but I would turn it slightly around slightly around and say say no to aid from particular donors or in particular areas and this is a way that they can make aid more selective and also reduce these problems to do with fragmentation and burden of aid the other point I would like to make which regards general aid flows is that with the recent revisions to the OECD classification of countries into low income, lower middle income and upper middle income countries you now have a large number of formerly low income countries who've just crossed threshold of $1,050 per person per year into being lower middle income countries these countries include places like India and Nigeria and Pakistan where there's a huge amount of poverty and deprivation and so I think it's important for donors not to focus too much purely on the low income countries as they have in the past they need to either raise the threshold or start to say well, we need to include some lower middle income countries in their programs The last remark, it actually has to be like a two minutes answer try it I just start somewhere there were so many questions I can't stop me if I have to No, you just choose something that you can say something really interesting I start with your question your question has been set out even in a prior paper by a World Bank economist, Lan Pritches where has all the education gone is actually the title of his paper and he also finds that well, education can't robustly be shown to lead to growths can't robustly be shown to lead to poverty reduction and so on and what's the issue here? I mean my impression on the interpretation you have to give to that is on the one hand side of course again we have a lot of data problems that's one thing but that aside I think there are a lot of substantive issues behind there too for instance, some is about the complementarities we were talking about earlier if you don't have quality looked at at the same time as quantity you can for instance quote the example of Tanzania in the late 70s they were already at almost 100% gross primary education with a lot of aid by foreign donors quality is so low that even in the country itself it was not sustainable because well the kids and the parents didn't know what to do with that education if they land up in the fields later on again it's not used for anything so education levels dropped again and then labor market development is another thing as long as you have the civil service growing after colonization I mean you can fill up every secondary school lever into this sector but that's going to be saturated at some point and then you need some other area if that's not developing where should it go and then you have the issue of of civil wars in many countries of course you can train people and they use their human capital for very different things they can actually use it for for activities that are detrimental to the development of the country so again there is a lot of question about the setting whoop thank you very much thank you Katya, Abhi thank you also Bob a big applaud


Russia repeats its mistakes from start of Ukraine war and loses a lot of tanks and APCs. Ukraine has lauded its recent success in taking out a slew of Russian tanks and armoured vehicles near the embattled former Ukrainian stronghold of Avdeevka. Kiev, said paratroopers from the country's 25th Airborne Brigade, had stopped a massive Russian attack close to the village of Tonenk, destroying four tanks and two infantry fighting vehicles directly west of Avdeevka according to Newsweek. The brigade, in a separate statement, said simply that it had destroyed a column of enemy equipment. The Institute for the Study of War, a US think tank that closely follows the conflict in Ukraine, described the Russian attack around Tonenk as Moscow's first battalion-sized mechanised assault since the Kremlin kicked off its offensive on Avdeevka last October. A Russian tank battalion typically contains upwards of 30 vehicles. Fresh off claiming Avdeevka in mid-February, Russia's first major victory since the fall of Bakhmut in May 2023, the loss of so many vehicles in one fell swoop, is a callback to the early eras and sky-high armoured losses that Moscow suffered in the first phase of its full-scale invasion two years ago. There are some similarities between this Russian attack near Tonenk and those Russian assaults early in the war, said Bryden Sperling, senior research leader for the defence and security with the European branch of the RAND think tank. It's surprising that the column in Tonenk mostly used a single road and didn't appear to use the open ground on either side and spread its forces out, though it looks like some vehicles did try to disperse. He told Newsweek, the Russian crews may have been worried about muddy terrain or mines, he added, saying, either way, these were significant losses of tanks and infantry fighting vehicles. Near Tonenk, we saw almost the same mistakes from their side as near Volodar in the previous year. Major Viktor Tregubov, a Ukrainian journalist and editor who now serves in the Ukrainian military, told Newsweek. Ukrainian troops have prevented another attack by the invading Russian army near Terny village in the direction of Lyman City in eastern Donetsk region. The enemy strikes were launched against the invaders who sought to advance with a convoy of tanks and other armoured combat vehicles. As a result, the vehicles and manpower in the column were destroyed. A few surviving infantrymen tried to escape. It should be noted that Russian troops have stepped up attacks in Donetsk region in recent days. A convoy of 36 tanks and 12 infantry fighting vehicles of the Russian army advancing in the direction of Tonenkoy village near Abdiivka city was destroyed by Ukrainian fighters. Russian troops launched an attack with armoured vehicles near the village of Novo Mikhailovka. As a result, the vehicles and the convoy were destroyed, and the attack was prevented.


My name is Specialist Janice Pagan, I'm with FSC 1187 in Port Campbell, Kentucky.  We do maintenance on vehicles and dispatching and with water parts for the vehicles that are down. So I'm Specialist Janice Pagan, I'm with 72nd Expeditionary Signal Battalion. Our unit is located in Swineford, Germany. I'm a 92 Yankee, a unit supply specialist. My job consists of basically taking care of our hand receipt holders, ordering supplies for my company. I'm also the unit armor, so basically I fix weapons as well if they go down. I'm so happy as well and grateful that I was able to come here during our days. I haven't seen her in two years, so just to know that I physically get to see her and not just talk to her over the phone or Skype is totally different. When you have the person in front of you. I miss her so much and we're so close. I mean it's different, you know, being on Skype, it's one thing but actually being together and seeing each other after so long, it's exciting. We've been attached to the hip since we got here, you know, just enjoying the time here in Bagram. Just be girls and shop and just talk and just be together, you know. Talk to the family, they really haven't hurt us together. So we've had a great time and again I'm grateful to have this opportunity to be together and actually get to see each other after two years of really not seeing each other. My mom made sure that we had


It's the Roy Rogers show Oh sugarcress the cereal treat that's fun to eat brings you with a Roy Rogers show transcribed on the double R bar ranked with Pat Brady and the Queen of the West Day 11 In person the King of the Cowboys Roy Rogers Well, howdy folks. Here's my good word for today It's about a honey of a new cereal post sugarcrisp and it's my hunch You'll like it just as much as we do out here at the double R bar range You see post sugarcrisp is just downright good eating and it's good so many different ways Try it real soon, won't you? Now tonight Dale and a friend of hers plan to surprise me and they sure do According to a Cowboys philosophy when two women get together It's pretty sure to end up in a conspiracy against the male sex And you know if you heard Dale Evans and her friend Katie Hart in the Eureka Café right this minute You'd be likely to agree Roy's jacket's in this bundle He hasn't missed it yet has he? Well he hasn't had any reason to dress up for the past few days I'm sure he doesn't know I sneaked it out of his wardrobe Oh the new one turned out slick as grease would Oh good It's the same white buckskin that's embroidered just exactly like his old one Now when can you and Roy come over so I can give him his new jacket Well let's see Roy said he'd be busy tomorrow getting some stock ready to take in the terminal the day after He'll be back from terminal early though How about Wednesday night Well we'll have a wing thing and hey bring Pat along for me Pat?   I don't know This critter years took sort of a shine Only it was a kind of a shine that would have been dangerous for We thought we'd leave him tied up here while we took care of our own branding But as long as you're here We'll do some branding huh You sure you weren't going to try to change your brand That's silly Jack I wouldn't have one of these things on my place That is I wouldn't if they'd stop wondering over here Fred I want you to remember what you saw here today Two had our stock over here and one of them down ready for branding Sure, sure I'll remember Mr. Waddell Rogers you seem to think you're king of Paradise Valley If I were you I wouldn't go too far You must have gotten up on the wrong side of the bed this morning fella Money's coming pretty easy for you these days isn't it Rogers At least the boys in the hollow wells said you spent an awful lot of it over there two nights ago What are you talking about I haven't been anywhere near hollow wells for weeks Fancy dresser like you's bound to be noticed Rogers All right let my brim a loose and Fred and me will take it home Cut that other one out of Rogers heard Fred Sure sure Mr. Waddell I can tell which one's ours all right Hey Jack maybe you've got an idea that I coax these steers of katies over here That's what you think I'd suggest that you talk to Katie before you do any more thinking Yeah I should say so Katie and Roy's old friend That's right now here's your steer I wouldn't take it branding to my friend if I were you Rogers I'm gonna tell the sheriff what I saw here today Maybe he'll be watching you too from now on Declare sheriff Our coffee earn must be connected to an alarm clock in your office You get here at eight on the dot No coffee for me tonight Pat Where's Dale? She went home early She's fixing up for a special date Where's Roy? At the ranch doing the same thing imagine He went in the term of the day but He ought to be back for now Pat you're sure Roy was in terminal today Yep And I got to perform the most unpleasant duty of my life Well can you tell me about it in a hurry I was about to close out because I'm going out tonight too Mind you Pat I'm not giving you the third degree of anything But do you know why Roy went to terminal Why to sell a couple of halfers Hers getting too big What kind were they Perfers Roy ever raised any of them crossbreed bramers on his place Like Katie Hart does No it doesn't lack them What's this all about Sheriff Pat I'm gonna have to go out to the double hour bar And arrest Roy What Man wearing a white buckskin jacket With a double hour bar brand and bead work on it So some cattle in terminal this afternoon Had the check made out to Roy Rogers Well the white buckskins Roy's favorite jacket Probably did wear it And you told me never had any of them crossbreed bramers But this man sold two of them Both fresh branded to the double hour bar And Jack Waddell told me that Roy was branding yesterday Sheriff you know yourself that Roy Rogers That ain't the worst of it The man dressed the same way Plus a mask Held up the bank there this afternoon And got away with quite a haul And I've got no choice now But to go out and arrest him Sheriff I think you're making an awful mistake And if I were you I wouldn't make Roy mad by going out there And springing this on him What would you suggest I do I'll dash out and tell Roy that you want him And why You know Roy Rogers well enough to be sure That he'll come into town and get this straightened out Well Pat I can't believe it about Roy myself If he wants to come in and talk to me I'll be in my office until 10 o'clock After that I'm coming out to the double hour bar After that I'm coming out to get him You know Roy loves animals And here are three of his animal friends that everyone loves The three sugarcress bears from the front of the post sugarcress package Hello there Got a word for the folks? We've got three words Try sugarcress Wise words Sugarcress is the cereal treat that's fun to eat It's made of nourishing puffed wheat And candy coated with sugar and honey And you'll love it three different ways Like the little bears say As a cereal sugarcress is dandy It's just sweet enough You don't need sugar Just pour on milk or cream And for snacks sugarcress is so handy Any time of the day or night Right again and And you can eat sugarcress just like candy Right out of the box We love it Everybody loves sugarcress It's a delicious cereal treat any way you eat it So mother when you're buying a cereal Remember what the three sugarcress bears say As a cereal it's dandy For snacks it's so handy For eat it like candy Post sugarcress You'll find genuine post sugarcress Only in the red white and blue package With the three bears on front Buy sugarcress tomorrow The sheriff makes an unbelievable accusation He tells Pat Brady that Roy Rogers Had been seen in terminal Selling stolen cattle with changed brands And robbing the terminal bank It's a few minutes later at the double R bar ranch Well Pat that's the most ridiculous thing I ever heard Of course I'll go in and talk to the sheriff As soon as I finish dressing Well he said that they seen you Roy You were wearing your white buckskin jacket And a mask and Well that proves they were seeing wrong I haven't worn my white jacket in over a week But I'm going to wear it tonight Hey will you hand it to me it's hanging over In the closet Sure Roy I'll get your jacket for you but No second thought I'm not going to rush into town To chin with the sheriff over a lot of nonsense Like this Dale's waiting for me And Katie Hart's waiting for all three of us And I'm going to the party first Well let's quick garden that door Roy asked me to get something out of here For him Hey the sheriff's a great old guy But he'll believe anything Here's the jacket You see bullet this is what I was after Hey what's the matter with you I'm not stealing it He wasn't growling at you Pat Pull that jacket out toward him again Okay Hey cut it out What's the matter with this jacket bullet You've seen it a hundred times You sure you don't want to go in And straighten out the sheriff right now Roy Well if I had anything to hide I certainly would but I don't So he can just wait Oh don't say anything about this to Dale Pat Come on let's go It's sure nice of you all to come over It's wonderful to be here I thought maybe we'd sing a few songs And have something to eat And then later on I've got a surprise for you Roy A surprise Another one Why what do you mean Roy Roy is Yeah I told Pat not to mention it And I guess I won't either I'm wobbly to need you for a character witness though Katie Character witness Roy Rogers what have you been up to Well nothing that I know of but Well come on if we're going to sing Let's get to singing Suits me Oh Katie before we start Have you actually lost any of your cattle lately Well I'm not sure Some of them are always wandering off somewhere Well Jack takes care of finding them Excuse me Miss Katie Sorry to bust in you on you like this But they sure have shown his way over here I thought I ought to tell you Hey it ain't ten yet The sheriff's on his way over here What in the name of Goshen for Fred I called him I was doing my night trick out near the main herd And a masked man scared me off And I seen him load two head of more cattle Onto that truck And I recognized a fella Alright who was he It was that Roy Rogers Roy Rogers Oh Fred Roy's sitting right there Yeah here I am Fred Well I What part of the spread did you see this fella on Fred Well not more than a mile away Do a whisk Alright I'm going out there and see what's happening I'm going with you Roy Trigger and buttermilk are still saddled up And bullets outside with him Yeah I'm going with you too So am I Oh no you two stay here There ought to be someone here to greet the sheriff When he comes But Roy I Never mind Pat I may tell you all that little secret while we're riding And when the sheriff gets here You'll probably tell Katie Well come on Dale let's go Alright Roy but you just better tell me what's happening Fred How can you come in here with a tale like this Miss Katie Mr. Waddell told me to keep a high on that Rogers fella I was sure I seen him Pat You and Roy are both hiding something Now come clean Well it's all a mystery to me But it seems that Roy's accused of being In a little trouble over internal saffronune What Well at least way's a man in a white buckskin jacket was Sure That's how I recognized Rogers by his white buckskin jacket I can't understand how that fella can be in two places at once Wait a minute What's Jack Waddell been doing today Fred I come to think of it I ain't seen Jack since he went off this morning Pat You wait right here Well I go look in my room And if a certain article is missing I think I know exactly what to do Roy Rogers, why didn't you tell me The very idea of accusing you of that I think it's kind of a joke Dale And I didn't want to worry you I just like to know who's got a white buckskin jacket Like mine And I'd like to know who's putting a brand on Katie's cattle But the moon isn't bright enough to do any tracking tonight And about that jacket Roy This should be just about the place where Fred Plainsy Saw the rustlers in the truck Maybe we could The sherry sherryzy Woo woo woo woo Trigger I can make out some horsemen up ahead The sheriff must have a couple of deputies with him Well alright Tell him it's awesome We might as well get this thing straightened out And what's it for all Say you identify yourself You know the sheriff If he sees me wearing this white buckskin jacket I'll have to argue with him all night When they go on to the house We could come back here And maybe Bullet could pick up some tracks We'll butter milk around Get low on the saddle And really dig out Alright Roy Gee, you know this is kind of exciting Alright then Walk your horses up here slowly And keep your hands in the air Let's go Dale Come on Trigger boy Come on Hey! Fire their horse! Keep going Dale Where were you? You'll just have to wait Come on Trigger What's the idea of the fire in the branding pit Jack? I don't know Miss Ida Was working at the far end of the spread all day I found it burning here on my way back just now The fire's pretty fresh Yeah I built it up a little I was cold I had a little work to do on the truck Well if one of your hands was branding He was pretty careless He shouldn't leave the arms in the fire like this No that'll ruin an iron Jack Hey what's wrong with the truck? You know I'm a pretty good hand with motor Oh nothing much I'll get it fixed in the morning Oh I might as well take a look at it I'll just hop in the cab here and start a real You keep away from that truck Brady Don't talk to Mr Brady like that Jack Now I'll take care of these branding irons No look Miss Hart I'll do it I've got them One of these isn't a tumbling h-iron at all Hey Waddell You left a mighty pretty jacket here in the truck I didn't know you owned one of these white buckskin numbers Jack Waddell What do you mean by taking that jacket without my permission? You know I made it for Roy Rogers Alright you made it for Rogers Now don't move either of you There's plenty of light here to plug you by Get out of that truck Brady Well I Come on You never gave me a tumble Miss Hart Now maybe you think you got the goods on me But it's too late Get over here I'll rope you and Brady together Yeah you rob the bank of terminal You've been rustling Katie's paddle right along Yeah and I'm gonna see that Roy Rogers takes a wrap for it Jack you're out of your mind You were pretty interested in this strange branding iron Miss Hart Well when you put it on top of a tumble and h It turns a brand into a double R bar So that's how those steers of Katie's happen to be wearing the double R bar brand I'm gonna brand the two I got in the truck right now I'll leave them on Rogers spreading Then the three of us will start somewhere Where do you think you're going with us? I'll get rid of Brady and then I'll get rid of you too Unless we'll That's maybe you'll forget this whole thing and start over with me I got a stake now Jack Waddell how can you dare Help Help Don't scream again Katie these irons are red hot We'll be with Roy in a second First listen to this cheery melody Where the sugarcress bears and we want you to meet The grandest treat you ever did eat Post sugarcrisp As a cereal it's dandy For snacks it's so handy Or eat it like candy Post sugarcrisp Yes sugarcrisp is a honey of a new cereal And the three sugarcrisp bears are right It's wonderful three different ways As a cereal it's already presweetened You won't need sugar just milk or cream And sugarcrisp is the perfect between meal snack Or eat it like candy right out of the box Made of nourishing puffed wheat It has a candy coating of energy rich sugar and honey That's why sugarcrisp is so good Buy post sugarcrisp in the red white and blue package With the three bears on it tomorrow You better leave the horses back here in the shadows And edge your way up to the fire I hope Bullitt knows what he's doing He certainly insisted that we follow the trail he picked up Bullitt's been acting strange ever since I put this white jacket on Roy, about that white jacket, you know Shh, can you make out what's going on around the fire? Well the man looks like he's getting a branding iron ready He'll be hard to brand all by himself I don't see any cattle They could be in the truck Wait, there are two people tied near the fire Roy, it's Katie and Pat And the man with the irons is Jack Waddell Who's that?   Well, we thought we'd surprise you and Roy By catching a wrestler and a bank robber all at once Only we got surprised ourselves What's all this business about surprises? You two gals are cooking up something It's about time you told us what it is Well, it isn't exactly cooking, Roy Katie's been doing some sewing You're surprised in the cab of the truck, Roy I guess it isn't exactly brand spanking new anymore But I sure hope you like it You better go get it yourself, Roy Don't send bullet after it or it's liable to be even less new Hey, what's this? My white buckskin jacket It can't be, I've got it on Katie made you a new one, Roy We both figured your old one was getting pretty tired Hey, well, this is wonderful It's beaded in embroidery just like mold one and everything And this is a wonderful surprise There we are Talk to you All right, Sheriff I was just about to come in town to talk to you Roy, I can't tell you how I hate to do this But I got to rest you on charges of wrestling Sell and stolen cattle and bank robber You're going to give up peaceable Yeah, I'll give up peaceable Sheriff, I don't think it'll be necessary for you to arrest Roy Nope, Roy's not only got a rock-bound alibi But he's captured the man you're really looking for I was hoping something like that had happened If you'd been gilly, Roy, I would have been real surprised You wouldn't have been as surprised as we would, Sheriff Well, I guess we've all had enough surprises for one day But I sure like mine That's all for now, folks This is Roy Rogers saying to all of you, from all of us Goodbye, good luck, and may the good Lord take a liking to you See you next week Roy Rogers Show was brought to you tonight by Post-Sugar Crisp The cereal treat that's fun to eat Fellows and girls, remember Roy's good advice And ask Mom to bring home Post-Sugar Crisp In the red, white, and blue package With the three bears on the front You'll love Post-Sugar Crisp The Roy Rogers Show can be heard again next week at the same time With Pat Brady, Dale Evans, and the King of the Cowboys himself Roy Rogers, an art brush production Written and directed by Fran van Hardisveld With music by Milton Charles Come and get it, come and get it For quick two-minute energy for work and play How about grape nut flakes How about them, how about them How about those grape nut flakes How about the grape nut flakes How about them, how about them How about those grape nut flakes They are so good, good for you too The two-minute energy works for you So how about them, how about them How about grape nut flakes Grape nut flakes is one of the triple-wrapped post-serials Guaranteed, fresh, or tripled your money back Look for Grape Nut Flakes A great two-minute energy serial In the package with Roy Rogers and Trigger on the front Featured in today's cast were Frank Hemingway, Herb Butterfield, Tom Holland, Tim Graham, and Katie Lee This is Art Ballinger speaking for Post-Sugar Crisp Stay tuned for the latest news brought to you by Log Cabin Syrup


Hello, this is Dr. Mahesh Kalyanshati, Associate Professor, Department of Civil Engineering, Vulture Institute of Technology, Solaapur. In this session, we will discuss about the evaluation of shear strength of soil by laboratory vane shear test. The learning outcome will be, at the end of this session, students will be able to evaluate shear strength of soil by performing vane shear test in the laboratory. As we are aware that there are many approaches of finding the strength parameters of the soil or even the shear strength of the soil, some of the methods in the laboratory are, we can perform the direct box shear test or triaxial shear test or unconfined compression test or vane shear test. Whereas on the field, we have the methods like vane shear test, pressure meter test, static cone penetrometer test and standard penetration test. Now, out of these, today we will discuss about the vane shear test. Now, the vane shear test can be performed in the laboratory as well as on the field. So, today we will focus on the laboratory vane shear test. This is a typical setup of the laboratory vane shear test. So, as you can see in this picture, in the laboratory, we get such kind of small instrument where basically we have a rod and there is a blades connected to this rod and this particular veins are inserted into the soil specimen which are filled in this mold and then this particular rod is rotated till the failure takes place. So, such kind of setup we have in the laboratory. Also on the field, we can apply the same logic and we have the apparatus where you see a rod, torque rod and then at the bottom there are the blades and these blades are rotated with the help of the torque machine here. So, the vane shear test is a quick test either it is used in the laboratory or in the field. It is used usually for a very soft soil because in the hard soil, there is a difficulty in penetrating these blades and also there will be a difficulty in applying the torque to this rod. So, usually on a soft soil, this test is performed and it is an undrained test basically. So, we do not have any drainage kind of concept here, it is a destructive kind of test. Vane shear tester consists of four thin steel plates called veins which are welded orthogonality to steel rods. So, the another picture you can see here this particular rod at the bottom the four blades are connected orthogonal to each other. A torque measuring arrangement such as calibrated torsion spring is attached to the rod which is rotated by warm gear and warm wheel arrangement. Now after pushing the veins gently into the soil, the torque rod is rotated. So, first of all we need to fill the soil sample or we have to prepare the soil sample in this mold and then this particular torque rod is to be penetrated into the soil sample gently and torque is applied to the rod with a uniform speed of 1 degrees per minute. So, it is very slow, very small rate is used. Rotation of veins shears the soil along the cylindrical surface. So, when the rotation takes place then it shears the soil along the cylindrical surface as shown here, such kind of fill your plane is developed. Rotation of spring in degrees is indicated by a pointer moving on a graduated dial attached to the warm wheel shaft here. The torque T is then calculated by multiplying the dial reading with a spring constant. So, we have a spring constant. So, knowing the dial reading and using the spring constant we can find out the actual torque applied on the sample. A typical laboratory vein is 20 mm high and 12 mm in diameter. So, we have a different dimensions for the different setup. So, for the laboratory setup we have the vein height 20 mm, so this is what is the height of the vein it is usually of 20 mm and the diameter is almost 12 mm. So, this diameter is of 12 mm and the thickness of the blade is about 0.5 to 1 mm. Whereas, the field shear vein is from 10 to 20 cm in height. So, for field we have a bigger dimension of these blades it is 10 to 20 cm in height and from 5 to 10 cm in diameter with a thickness of about 2.5 mm. So, before we proceed let us have a review questions. So, three questions I have posted just read it. First one is the vein shear test is performed in four options. The second question is which strength parameters are determined in vein shear test again four options and the third question is in vein shear test torque rod is rotated at a uniform speed of four options. So read it carefully give the answers and then resume the video. These are the answers the vein shear test is performed in both laboratory and field. So, this is the only test which we can perform in the laboratory as well as in the field. The second question which strength parameters are determined in vein shear test now this is an experiment where we do not get the strength parameters we get directly the shear strength of the soil. Therefore, cohesion is not possible to find friction angle also is not possible to find right. So, therefore the first option is not correct second option is not correct even third option is also not applicable. So, none of the these because we are not able to find C and phi in the vein shear test. So, basically we find the shear strength. The third question in vein shear test the torque rod is rotated at a uniform speed of one degrees per minute this is the correct answer. Now let us go for the determination of shear strength. Now with reference to this particular vein of some specific sizes we will derive the equation. Let us say the tau f is the unit strength of the soil and h is the height of the vein d is the diameter of the vein and t is the torque required to cause the failure. And we can derive the equation for the torque for two different cases. First one let us assume that the top end of the vein is embedded in the soil. So, the top end of the vein is also embedded in the soil. So, it means that the top and the bottom ends are taking part in the shearing of the soil. So, we have two surfaces one is at the top another is at the bottom. So, these two surfaces are resisting the force or resisting the torque. And if this is the case then the total torque is given by this equation pi d square into tau f in bracket h by 2 plus d by 6 where we know the meaning of these terms. So, small d is the diameter of the vein and tau f is the shear strength h is the height of the blade and d is the diameter. So, from this equation or it is again clear that we can find the value of shear strength tau f we can find if I know the torque. So, the torque required to cause the failure can be determined in the laboratory by performing the test and based on whether the only one part is taking part in the shearing or both the surface is taking part in the shearing we can use the equation. Then if suppose only bottom part is taking part in the shearing it means top surface is above the soil mass only bottom surface is taking part in the shearing in that case the equation for torque is given here. So, the difference is only instead of d by 6 you have to use d by 12 here. So, again here knowing the t value we can find out the shear strength of the soil. So, here look at this equations we can get directly the shear strength. So, we are unable to find any strength parameters. Let us take an example a vein 10 centimeter long and 8 centimeter in diameter was passed into a soft clay at bottom of the borehole torque was applied and gradually increased to 45 Newton meter when failure takes place. Subsequently the vein rotated rapidly so as to completely remove the soil. The remolded soil was sheared at a torque of 18 Newton meter calculate the cohesion. So, it means they have given two conditions one is natural condition and there is a remolded condition in the natural condition we require the torque of 45 Newton meter and in the laboratory we require the torque of 18 Newton meter and in both the cases you are supposed to find what is the cohesion or shear strength in fact. So, the first case if I look at natural state. So, the torque is known to us the h is given 10 centimeter and the diameter is known to us 8 centimeter. So, using this formula which we discussed just now we get the value as tau f that is shear strength as 3.54 Newton per centimeter square and this particular shear strength is nothing but it is a cohesion because there is no resistance offered or the no strength developed because of the friction angle therefore the shear strength itself is the cohesion that is 35.4 whereas in the second case if I consider the remolded case the torque required was 1800 Newton centimeter and again the another equation we use here for that and using that equation we get the shear strength as 14.1. So, the cohesion also is 14.1. So, we can find the cohesion value or the shear strength value is different for different conditions first for the natural condition if you test the strength is 35.4 and in a remolded state if you test the strength is 14.1 kilo Newton per meter square. These are the references used for this presentation. Thank you.