June 5th community resource committee meeting of the town council and we're going to start at 2 35 p.m. and I need a volunteer amongst us to take minutes everybody is looking at that the record show that everyone's looking at their shoes so so okay so We have the really the agenda and thank you Dave for passing them out is call to order done public comments continued discussion of goals Discussion of procedures and policies discussion of our meeting with a zoning subcommittee and then planning for the possibility of a retreat and Then business not anticipated 48 hours before the meeting and then adjourn so we haven't met in two or three weeks three weeks in part because one of our meetings wasn't properly posted and Then we took a break last week so that we could attend the an economic development forum that was at UMass So we're back in session So and actually one thing I do want to talk about with the council and this will be under with a committee This will be under business not anticipated 48 hours is our schedule going forward. So Remind me to talk about that if I forget to so why don't we start off with public comment. So Actually, we're it's nice to see so many of you here today. So if anyone wants to speak about anything that might be under our purview Speak now I'm sorry one more time Basically everything under the Purpose of the count of this group is to advise the town council on matters related to the economic vitality and quality of life in Amherst We shall focus on the following areas among others planning zoning land use and the master plan Community and economic development including art and culture housing mix housing affordability in neighborhoods So that's the primary purpose So that got some hands up I Here that button that button. Yes, that one My name is Ann belt ye and I live at 29 Dana place right off of Dana Street And I wanted to talk today for a number of reasons. I think that There's been a couple different points one is that The set Valley CDC met with you all on April 23rd, and that's when they got the approval to move forward Correct. Oh your committee met. Okay. I misspoke. So the and the CPAC Recommendation was approved at that time No, it has well this group. Yeah, I wasn't president at that particular meeting the Those are the four that were present voted to Endorse basically this okay the CPA proposal, okay And that recommendation has been transmitted to the full council. The full council has not voted. Yes The finance committee has not yet voted on this correct. Okay. Yeah, so it's This was one of our first meetings and we truthfully didn't go into any detail didn't have that much before us Look pretty good on the on the surface and we voted. Yes those who are here. He was not here. Okay, very good So and then the subsequent day the next day April 24th The neighborhood and the abutters were alerted to the fact that there was a 132 Northampton Road project That was being proposed and had received preliminary approval We believe that Valley CDC knew of this schedule of the approval and then alerted us after the fact so We feel and I say we like people I've spoken with Feel a little bit that they're there on transparency transparency has been lacking And that doesn't set up for a good a good follow-through on some levels So Then I have some questions to ask We all want to I want to make a statement first We all want to help the most vulnerable of our citizens and we want to succeed want this to succeed for the residents the neighborhood in the town At that meeting on the 24th Valley CDC received all of the emails of the neighborhood and Took the concerns that had been printed out and then they responded to those concerns on I think directly to the council or to the town But they did not respond to all the emails that they had acquired Directly at all. They only responded to the town therefore also Albeit they had taken the emails as in a goodwill effort to be in contact or to be transparent with the neighborhood did not do that they actually Were not treating the neighborhood like like really serious stakeholders in this plan. They were going another angle And that's makes us also feel like they're not being transparent with us furthermore there Was mentioned I was not at this meeting and one of my neighbors might be able to clarify the exact Words used that there were really no problems in the neighborhood to be worried about in Northampton the other SROs We're fine. Nothing was going on and you will not find anything or I would be surprised if you found anything The emergency service records and logs show otherwise Not only were there problems within the housing units alone with overdoses But there was noise disturbances as well as vandalism in the neighborhood so That again is a transparency issue We have everything to gain the neighborhoods and the neighbors and the tenants for being transparent We have everything to gain for this being a win-win. We would like this to be a win We would like this to work if it's going to be in our neighborhood We wanted to work and we wanted to work well and We're sincere about that you should see that here the conversation is going on How is this going to work? How are they being supported? How are they not being supported and is the size too big is it going to the other houses? And there's been some grids made of the problems in their emergency report logs in Northampton They go up exponentially According to the size of the unit. This is a family neighborhood kids are running around We don't want the vandalism We don't want that if we wanted that we'd have bought houses down near the fraternities and on you know near UMass And someone may you know someone took made light of my concern of the vandalism They said I'm sure there are other homes in Amherst that have this problem too, and I said, yeah But did you want to live there? Maybe you didn't buy a house there either for those reasons So we're not saying that this is going to happen. We're saying that the records in Northampton show that it has happened and We would like the supports to be in place So that people can have a success in their home and in the neighborhood. I Also want to address one other topic This gets on to the more personal level I have a long history in Amherst. I was raised here I helped the black sheep open Yep, moving around floor Nick Seaman had people out front protesting because it was named the black sheep They thought that was derogatory. Yes He raised black sheep It was not derogatory. He raised black sheep. Okay, I worked at the every woman's center for violence against women I did education at UMass as a volunteer I worked in Washington DC on a nonprofit for human rights issues in Central America The issues of having a voice representation Okay, all of these were relevant. I Have seen firsthand were impressions and Good intentions have not led to good outcomes my concern is that this project the details of this project were not adequately Looked at and that there was a little bit thrown to the wind or we'll fix it as we go Something like that to make it work or make it to come good That's not good enough for us We live there. We want it to work We'll welcome people into our neighborhood. We will greet people But it but make it so it's gonna work and so that they can have success. Secondly, I know this is going on. I have personal experience with some of these issues in High school my boy had boyfriend was an African-american from inner city New York City Who's it? He was a boys club Scholarship recipient Most of the people in his neighborhood back in New York City either ended up in jail or dead at 23 a day to the guy in Wyoming He was an ex-con. I Moved to Seattle. He followed me He was also a drug user. He took up drugs again. He was clean when I met him He took up drugs again in Seattle and he was homeless He wasn't able to move in with me. I didn't want him necessarily living with me. He was homeless He was a good guy. He was kind. He was honest and he was dishonest He was not dangerous He was a user. I don't want us to be profiled Any more than you want us to profile anybody who's gonna be moving into these affordable housing projects not projects Excuse me programs or buildings It's not fair people have made issue with us because we live in the neighborhood we live in Because we do happen to be all mostly white. My husband's not he's an immigrant and He was persecuted in his country of origin and he came here I think that it is incumbent on the council members to talk to each other and not allow profiling to happen Regarding us any more than we will allow it to happen Regarding people who are needing this housing and for whom we were willing to offer support Please consider us an ally In making this work Thank you so we don't normally respond to public comment and I think we're also encouraged to be flexible so I think we can You know beat it up, but I just wanted to say one thing So this is so the town council has been in existence for six months and it took much of those six months for us to Figure out how we were going to organize ourselves and one of the last pieces was this committee the community resource Committee which was officially approved. I think April 11th, and then April 24th was our second meeting So I was also contacted about the I can only speak for myself So I also learned about That particular site as the location of this probably after you or around the same time as you through some sort of an email Blast and the the timing was I think that the two meetings were on either on the same night or You know some sort of a weird Coincidence like that. I think if we were to do it again, we might We know we I don't know what we would do if we were to do it again, but the timing was not Was not ideal that I can acknowledge that the I don't think that there was any bad intention on the part of anyone so I think that as far as I can understand looking back through the Way that this evolved that there had been various indications from the Valley CDC and from the town itself That that this site was being considered that the site was purchased that this was what the intent was I Think that the town council was busy organizing itself that we It may have slipped off You know our own radar screens as something that we could be paying attention to earlier But I don't think that there's any bad intentions on the part of any of the groups Involved in this and I totally understand how this would feel like it was a surprise to you so if we played a role in that then You know that's unfortunate, but So there is this meeting on a so the most important vote is a vote of the town council Which will happen after this community meeting on June 18th, which I assume that you're all aware of at the bank center Okay, so we need to go what I'd like. I think that We're let's go through that meeting and see what comes out of that I have a couple of comments. I say Steve wasn't here. He's the chair But he he had told us he wouldn't be here and I was acting chair We approved it Without looking into it and going into any detail it was presented to us as as something that seemed like a useful and necessary act and That there were no problems of any kind and I was under the wrong impression of where it was I kept driving around trying to find the address and I thought it was Further down on on Northampton Avenue towards University Drive and I thought okay This makes some sense This is almost in this commercial area and it was really close to the shopping and it wasn't until after the vote That I realized no it really was a budding to really residential neighborhoods So that is and as I say we were we were brand new. I really think that it's a major point you're making The word profiling is the word I couldn't remember all week. I kept coming up with stereotyping But I it profiling is the right word and It's been going on and we have been it would whatever side you're on you're accused of profiling the other side No good discussion will ever happen if that's what we do, okay, and I've seen virtue signaling on all sides I mean we just have to talk about it But I will tell you Steve that some people spoke to me today and they told me because I said as you did I assumed that they would all be at this meeting on the 18th and I was told something that I haven't had a chance to verify that Valley CDC would be given a certain amount of time to make a presentation But that the neighbors and residents would not so I I bring that up And so that is why some of them are saying they're not going to participate Then if they don't participate then the purpose we're not going to get anywhere. So To that first that's not my things can change what my understanding was that it was being facilitate It's a facilitated conversation with representatives from various things Your neighborhood Probably the housing trust probably Valley's but there would also be an empty chair So that there would be ongoing ability for people to move in and out of the conversation As they wanted to respond to comments though. Now, that's the last I heard So I haven't heard anything like that. So I said when I have a follow-up that oh well She's gonna take Kate says she has some information But that I would certainly bring this up with Lynn because the idea that Lynn's idea was to bring about some venue where people could talk and talk with each other and not just you know So I'm gonna try to get us back on track We are a young committee we're young counselors with the exception of Andy and Alyssa we don't have governmental experience However, I really am uncomfortable And I've said this before with the premise that we weren't we just thought this was a good idea Kind of thing and we didn't do our homework because I did and we don't necessarily agree But I'm listening I'm hearing what you're saying and I say that with an open heart. I Researched this I went and visited SROs. I've read the master plan about you know I've done as much as I could And I'm doing more by checking out things you're sharing with me So I really want us to stop Apologizing for being a young committee for me. That was a decision that was done with thoughtfulness and I don't I Think it is unfair to you To think that oh, well, we just did it because we did maybe Dorothy did but I don't think she means it But I didn't and so enough said about that, but and I will be in your neighborhood for the walk Yeah, I did so Just a couple things my understanding and we can Inquire to make sure is that Valley CDC is fully participating in the meeting on the 18 and that the plan is to it is a facilitated discussion so that they're Essentially as I understand the model that's being used with facilitator is In this is an empty chair has a funny meaning Sounds until it's explained that there's an inner circle in an out and then essentially an outer circle and the outer circles Everybody's there except for people who are in this inner circle and Some people are being invited to be there and I don't know how those invitations are it was my understanding that it was to assure that everybody who's Every group that's that's spoken has some Representation but also the empty chair idea was is that if there was somebody who wanted to participate to ask some Questions that there be a place for them to join for the period of time So the solitator could bring extra people in and I think that's what the concept was The finance committee did not vote on this we look at it Speaking now for a second is chair of the finance committee because we look at the financial aspects of the proposals as opposed to other committees which have different roles and different assignments including this one We deliberately postponed our final Consideration until a 25th so that it would be after the 18th because we wanted the year and have time to consider what was said at the community meeting and At least as of now, it's my understanding that the president Intends to bring this to the council on July 1st. So that was just for informational purposes My impression was is that because none of the applicants We're invited to our meeting earlier when we considered the proposals this committee it was all a report from the Capital planning Art is a CPA committee and the CPA committee Had met with everybody had done a lot of its homework and So that it was presenting its recommendations There were a whole series of proposals for CPA No group was represented And I don't think that any groups were probably been notified. So I would Not assume that There was a decision not to participate. I think it was just the way it was One other thing I'll note for my prior role on the select board I was for several years the select board liaison to the Community Preservation Act committee if you go on to the Town website under boards and committees and look Community Preservation Act committee up You will be able to find Several things one is the proposal itself for each of the proposals that was filed second thing is that early in the process of their process after receiving the proposals committee members All participate in suggesting questions that they would like to pose to Proponents and people who have submitted the proposals and then there are responses that are posted And those are all on the website. So there is information if you haven't already seen it It's out there. I think that's probably all I wanted to just relate for information purposes. I Yeah, let's take more more public comment So my comment is I want To feel comfortable. I'm sorry, Kate.  I live at 99 Dana Street My comment is that I want to feel comfortable with the proposal for the development at 132 North Hampton Road and I I've done a lot of meetings including having Valley CDC come to two of the members Laura and Joanne come to my house Walk around the property with me. I've met with it town manager and the housing planner I Written letters I've met with With both my both of my representatives George Ryan. He's come to my house and I've talked about it I've met with Dorothy Pam etc My observation is that there's kind of two Two groups of information one is the information that I hear from the developer and from the Government and I call it sort of the administration of the project the other information is from a Neighbor who is involved in SRO and low-income housing My husband is a neurologist and his very carefully thought through Comments and another ER doc on our road and another doctor who lives in North Hampton Road And I'm finding that why am I hearing such different things from the different groups? And that's what I'm bringing to you is I need you to help explain that to me Why am I hearing concerns about the people living there and not getting sufficient services? Why am I hearing things from people saying that it may not be a stable group of people people that need more needs and Why am I hearing otherwise from the proponent that proposed developer that no there's no problems? It's fine. You don't have anything to worry about and also, you know other people in town. It's low-income housing It's fine. You're you're something wrong with you I want to know why those two things are so different so that I can feel comfortable with it so that's where I'm coming from and We're concerned as a neighborhood that we haven't really had our own opportunity to present all of our information to you Like Valley CDC has and I do want you to know that I have a copy here of the fishbowl and dynamic Facilitation model and it's set up so that Valley CDC Valley CDC presents the scope and plans for their SRO so they do have a presentation time and then we are amidst this fishbowl concept but we still have never had a chance as a neighborhood to present a lot of careful research and data and Sort of see how it all adds up or where it doesn't add up and get answers to the questions because we want to be We want to be able to be comfortable with the project. Thank you Thank you and You'll be able to come on June 18th with Any other public comment? Yes, please I'm sorry. You'll have to come on. You have to come to the mic. Yep. Oh, nice so It's usually nice to know what the The gist is before I tailor My comment I think it's on I always like to hear what is being spoke me for myself before as I tailor my comment specifically So I really had to choose between being late. Can you give us your name? What now your name?  I understand the need. However, I Absolutely understand everyone's concerns because I did a sublet that was From Amherst community connections. I Got to say that was a hindrance going there and I felt highly abused And I realized that I did not follow the protocol which was go what I'm gonna call quietly into the To slaughter which would be at the apartments and what I have wondered is I would say how can these places pass inspection? Number one I saw how they didn't dent and I had to challenge it number two I have pictures which no one can believe only one person I got to come and actually smell this so my concern is is You know, there's a good way to do things in a wrong way, but It was actually better in my car. It was essentially a Bathroom and that was the only usable thing and as far as It seemed like that people who were low-income were supposed to basically be shuttled No questions asked into not only certain apartments, but certain units that could therefore never They would never have to actually get them to the most basic codes let alone And basically it was pretty clear that if you lived there and you weren't someone who was mentally ill or drunk Or totally dysfunctional and dare to even question that you would probably be with a bad reference and be stuck there forever it was also incredibly expensive place and So I really feel that there Needs to I'm not a person of oversight However, these units had literally know what I consider actual oversight in the condition let alone The actual what was going on there?  It actually could ruin my life or put me in the same situation with fraud or Bad things that have nothing to do with my lifestyle.   Yes, those people need I Think that there should be like dorms like there's the cigarette butt nip bottle totally dysfunction nutty complex and then the sustainable complex where people want to actually Pride of ownership or tenetship. I mean if this thing was it was worker owned I mean like if it was my place that would have pounded all the nails that were sticking in perhaps hired someone actually walk I mean, this is why I took pictures because no one was interested and I was not interested in exposing Any of that I was just interested in actually getting the most basic even if it's rustic Housing that it was not worse than no housing So I think people's concerns are very valid and I think Both sides, but I do see how what a pattern had become where the agency after agency dropped off people who literally Even the management said there are people who should not be here living alone for various reasons Have no idea that you have to throw out trash and So you're at the mercy and risk of people who live very close to whether a neighbor or a shared wall one guy No, and there's no Nope, I don't slap on the wrist like one guy. He said oh, I fell on the pond I went on purpose on the ice. I've done it four times and someone else said oh, that's the guy who started four fires So it seems like the housing authority the vouchers as well as ACC perhaps is essentially subsidizing a huge amount of alcoholics and really problem people with and there's no Like saying if you're gonna get this Maybe you have to have some standard or get help or you know And if you're actually on the other side of it You're we get retaliated because you're supposed to be in that group And that's how we rent these units and that's how we all make money that keep these units for the worst people So don't let that happen. I heard CDC probably does a better job. I don't know But thank you First of all first of all, it's good to see you not just on Friday I Want to say that the SROs are individual studio apartments. They're gonna be brand new I think that what you're talking about in terms of vouchers That and where you're being sent to housing that is Substandard is not what this project that it's about and in fact this project is trying to address that So that the people who live there whether they are people who have been homeless People who have been addicted or people who are working in downtown restaurants Or service positions have a really nice place to live and a community that can develop There will be on-site management and et cetera, et cetera. So thank you for your comments Dorothy well, that's coming to the bone of contention We have not received sufficient information on What many people regard as basic on-site management? All that we've heard is 20 hours And I don't know whether it's one person or 20 hours between a variety of service providers who will have hours in the office and I think that I think you're right. It's great. These are going to be brand new. They're going to be clean There's going to be a nice piece of property around it They're going to be community gardens where people can garden. There are a lot of positive Aspects of this plan, but I feel that if there is not an assurance of more Supervision that it will not succeed and that is where I'm having a problem Come on for it other than Dave Zomek has a come on you can yeah Go ahead. I just want to Insert that In the future it might be good if although this is a very fruitful conversation I am conscious of the fact that the committee Has a limited amount of time and typically public comment has some Limits in terms of time. So I just want to be careful of that and that there will be multiple opportunities Yeah, on the 18th on future council meetings To discuss this so I just I know you have a full agenda So with the permission of the council, I think that this is an important issue that is You know extended play might be worth Because it covers many issues housing master plan I will be brief Hallie Hughes 30 orchard Street I actually wanted to address something counselor Pam first said that she didn't know where the property was and I'm the crazy lady that sent an email inviting you all for a Walking tour on Sunday, so I would encourage Everyone to come and I promise I won't be talking a lot of politics I just want to actually just give you a feel for where things are and where the neighborhood is and I was one of the three community members that went to Kate Troth's house to meet with Valley CDC and actually it was The third time I'd asked them directly about I know that there's a six-month sobriety Requirement to get into the house, but I've been asking what happens when you get into the community And so this addresses what the woman before me said too, and I thought I'd clarify what Another question counselor Pam had which was the six-month sobriety is large This is coming from Valley CDC the way I heard it is largely self-reported or it is a clinician's letter stating that they are sobriety that they are sober for at least six months going in but there's no demonstration of attending a program or anything it is however a wet house in That alcohol and marijuana or whatever is legal is allowed once you are there Thank you Okay, no more public comment Okay, so why don't we keep moving Yep, is Jerry still here did she leave? Okay, Jerry, I'm just very glad you called me up and spoke to me And I'm so glad to see that you came here today because I felt you were bringing some really in important information About the management of the low-income houses or the places where you people can go with a voucher And I think that's something that we will want to be following up on even beyond this particular project that You know, I'm sorry. You'll have to come to the mic if You know, you'll have to okay come forward. I Just realized that the only the outside world only has I'm just hoping that there is a place where it you don't need Monitoring I mean in other words that has adults adults not children You know adults who are drunk all day or something. There's various levels of problems some people are not Causing their own problems, but however, it would be nice to Be in a place where it doesn't need a babysitter where people cooperatively work together and don't need monitoring Per se. Thank you. So Yeah, yeah, yeah, so we're gonna move on to goals so You'll recall that we had been working on the goals so the goals of the council We had been looking at that and looking at those parts that were delegated to us and then I had volunteered to alter the dog or to Add comments to the document for our feedback and as I got started on it I realized I had no idea what I was doing So I asked Lynn for some guidance and I think she just sent an example document to us And I still I'm not exactly sure how to fill out this form But I do think it's worth You know now that we have been in existence for almost two months. I do think it's worth Taking another look at what we think we can accomplish You know in relationship to these goals and seeing if these dates are realistic so if it's okay, I'd like to go back through that whole list and You know talk about what we think we can accomplish this year what we can think we can accomplish you know next year and Give that feedback back to to Lynn and to the rest of the council So I believe that she just sent this by email To us and it's called examples for your meeting. So if you can open up your email, it'll be there Everyone has it open or do you have a day Steve would you send it to me? I'm not sure I'm copied on it. I don't think you are Feel left out. Yeah Just I'm just about to do that I'm gonna do it right now. Hold on one sec Okay, okay, so mr. Simon. Yes, okay, so leave this page the first time I've been in a meeting where a Document is sent to us during the meeting. Yeah So Yeah, so let me just talk conceptually for a second and I need to talk sort of think about this out loud So there there's a hundred different things that we can be doing, right? So we have everything from roads to sidewalks We have things that are referred to us we have things that we know we want to to address We just went through a presentation with the zoning subcommittee about some pent up zoning by-law changes that they're Proposing so I think it's really important for us to prioritize what we think we can do So rather than trying and the way the goals already is doing that for us because it does spread it out over time But I think we need to You know really think about what's what our highest priorities? Yeah, so you have much more No, it is Yeah, we'll start at the top so Yep So I'm starting and it says Amherstown Council goals worksheet draft draft as of 418 Yep, yep Yeah, yep Exactly, so I like to just go back down through that and So I'm starting The problem one of the problems with this is that sometimes things are assigned to multiple committees So if the other committee thinks it's very doable, and we don't and I'm not sure how that gets Yeah So I see that that it seems to be the first reference to the CRC and the responsible party So it is something that falls to the town manager to negotiate that with the university And I know that He is planning to bring that to the full council at the appropriate time. I don't think there's a date certain for that Whether we are want to use June 2019 or do we want to extend that day Andy? Will that box says? Target date to begin and I think we're talking about begin that and I think we need to think about the end piece. That's much more serious Yeah, but the thing is is that we don't the end date for The strategic partnership agreement will be based upon when a draft is available Which is really something that is matter of discussion that takes place between the town manager and the counterparts at the University so Once he has a draft then it would seem that what our Ideal goal would be a presentation and full discussion at this committee an opportunity if we choose to meet with other people who we may find would be helpful to us to to further the conversation at that time and that we then make a recommendation based upon our Investigation of it to the full council prior to a council vote I don't think we can put times timelines on that because we don't really control When it will come available to us Yep, I have a comment on that I remember when I raised this that I was told that really this was not something that we do that the town manager Does it? But I think that Andy's right. We will look over it. We will comment on it, but today Some people who came to my office hour mentioned that there was another town gown group It wasn't the strategic partnership which deals with money and legal things But it was a town gown Committee made up of a lot of people that live in my district And that it was dissolved by the university about the time that the public private partnership new dormitory was begun at discussion was begun on and Again, what we hear may not be exactly what is going on But the latest word was that the university plans to build the new thousand bed dormitory in the parking lots at the Top of Lincoln, which is the university's property. So, you know, that's something they can do but that In addition to the strategic partnership, which the town manager negotiates and we will look at in review I think that we also also should be involved in a less formal town gown thing in which we try to talk or in some way mediate or encourage for there to be this Kind of relationship that used to exist For this for it to be revived and that we should at least know what's going on So I think that's an excellent point that the p3 is a new form of collaboration Possibly taxable that the does require the cooperation with the town and Or should require the so whether or not zoning it is exempt just because they own the land for for for I That's an unsettled issue right as to whether or not If they're engaging private developers on public land whether or not there's still exempt from zoning But I think that in the spirit of at least in the the spirit of Partnership I think that this would be something to But go ahead. You know, there's a lot of yeah a lot of questions and and topics in there Just maybe I can back out to something Dorothy said earlier So so there's the strategic partnership agreement, which is typically a three-year agreement that the town Negotiates with the University that squarely falls in mr. Backelman's Authority but and I would defer to him and and your president to Decide when that would come to the council and the CRC I think you were referring to UTAC earlier at the University town of Amherst collaborative, which was a Group of people and an agreement that came out of a larger group that we started some years ago called the safe and healthy neighborhoods working group which was a collaborative effort between Residents the town and the University to look at quality of life issues in the neighborhood And it was about there must have been almost 20 people and we met right in this room for a couple of years Out of that group came a recommendation for the rental registration Bylaw and a lot of other good recommendations. So from that Came the rental registration program, which we now have which calls for a voluntary Self-certification of all rental units in town and lots of other good things came out of that So fast forward and we created also out of that you tack the University of town of Amherst collaborative Which was a group of citizens business owners You're right some folks in in the neighborhoods that you represent in the district you represent Dorothy and to be accurate it wasn't really the University that Dispanded that although you may have heard that I Think what we really did was kind of put a pause on that and say it may have ran its course in its current Form, but that there might be a new way to think about it So I think that's consistent with what the two of you you and Steve just talked about is That was a good group. It was beneficial a lot of good things came out of it great communication between the town and the University now also out of some of that work came Some target areas that the University Could develop for housing one of them being off of Massachusetts have on the South side of Mass Ave as Mass Ave cuts right through through their campus so That has been public that the University is seeking a public private partnership to develop A certain number of beds on Mass Ave, and I don't have an update on where that that RF P is right now, but I know the University is proceeding along those lines So I think we could certainly explore the idea of what comes after UTAC And that's something we could look at Yeah, go ahead. Well the the comment of the people today homeowners who live right next to that Is that their lovely house? And gardens it would be in a way trapped between what we assume it has to be a high rise Because the lots not that big and a thousand beds is a lot of beds and Fearing Street, which is still a very lively corridor for students partying Mostly in the evening And the feeling was that perhaps the aim is to just basically have the home owners give up and leave therefore moving the University deeper into the neighborhood and You know I represent people who want to hold the line so we talked about what can we do because the University owns the land and Besides a group talking to us there were you know thoughts that Certainly there could be maybe a large tree belt between the dorm and the residential street Which would be something and I don't mean to interrupt but but let's I think that having a You know certainly a priority of Whatever we can do to look at what's proposed Yeah Yes, but I do I do think that we should add you know just to remind ourselves that the you that they because this is the Bold higher education maintain its strength and relationship that paying attention to the p3 is Critical and the CRC is the most obvious group So we could we could certainly have that be a future agenda item Yeah, with perhaps even somebody from the University coming and giving you all a presentation on what is planned Yep, so I'm gonna put that go out the only other thing for everybody is that If you look on the town website under the section That's across the banner at the top living There's a whole section below that on the University of town of Amherst Collaborative also known as UTAC and it explains a little bit of the history of it there Okay, that was easy No, so page down I'm going to add with your permission Commentary about the the p3 and You know a start date sometime soon to have a presentation about that So I'm going to move on move us on to page The next time the CRC appears I'm on page 12. I'm on page 13 14 anyone Okay master plan So I'm on page 15 So this is master plan review and if necessary advise and then adopt a master plan CRC and planning board So some of this we've done so we have done our initial review of master plan and presentation discussion of master plan or a special town council meeting that includes others so that was planned for fall of 2019 and this would be a special town council meeting. I think that that seems doable and important so just because not everyone is You know just the more familiar we can make ourselves with the existing master plan. I think is a good idea And then there's a bunch of other things development begin implementation of a plan to review revise and adopt the master plan so I think that The summit there being so many things on the plate of the CRC and the town council I think this idea that we would you know start this year on revising the master plan or Seems like a stretch, but I think Making us more knowledgeable about what the strength of the master plan is and where some of the gaps might be I do think it's important and I think that You know looking at this schedule Which really is sort of considering updating or not Seems like it's workable because this is really a one-year process Two-year process because it relates summer of till the summer of 2021 Actually even later Town council adopts master plan fall of 2021 so that's two years To me that seems like a doable Can can we ask you to make This is very interesting. It's very amorphous and large I feel that I'd be much happier if it were broken down into small pieces Yeah, and I'm just wondering can you do that with your experience on the planning board? look through it and Put it into reasonable chunks so that we know what we're dealing with on which meaning and we would come all having read the same pages As we get more into this. Yes. Yes, because Otherwise, it's just awfully vague and amorphous because they all we did that but we really didn't do it We did not but we did do an important first step, which was the introduction Yeah, actually we've had two so we had one that when we were a brand new council now another one When we were a brand new CRC Yeah, so it does seem like this is an overview and what I hear you asking for Dorothy is a more direct view for us as a Hardly and I'll definitely as we get into this. So this is really Starting in the fall So I definitely will volunteer to work with the appropriate people from Dave's to Kind of make it easier to understand So I'm moving into chunks. Yeah I'm gonna move us on to page 17, which is zoning I'm sorry There's several things that I was curious about or observed one is is that There's reference on page 15 to a CRC Master plan working group and And we've got really talked about what that working group is and how that is Created what its role is its responsibilities and how it relates to the entire group. Does it include more members? Then just members of the committee itself are there other counselors or other non counselors other staff involved So I think that that needs to be understood Is a part of the process? another piece and this was referred to by miss breast strip when she was here that It is common this kind of complex process to Have some consultant assistance available who have expert with expertise in helping communities to Develop master plans and involve the public in the discussion of what the primary goals are in the master plan That gets into budgetary issues. I know that we had some discussion, but I can't now go back Get distracted from the meat to go looking for where it fits in with the Capital plant the long-term capital plan it is in there Yeah, but 21 yeah, so You know all of these things You know have the budget piece asked to fit with the end result and You know the other I guess the last piece is once the Consultant has helped us through a process It still needs time to work through both the planning board and the council in some order and we need to make sure that we understand what each group's role is because they're both Charter provisions that speak to that. They're also state law provisions to speak to it So so the normal shelf life of a master plan is 20 years so and then Is that an MG master in a law or is it just a rule of thumb so so 20 years rule of thumb Yeah, typical so our master plan actually has built into it It shall be looked at and updated every five years So now we're on the 10th year and we really haven't gone through that process of updating it because that is a Collaborate, I mean that would be generated by the planning board and so Yeah, and this it could be the CRC working group could be the CRC So we haven't defined a CRC working group somebody else. I didn't know what that stood for. Thank you So I ignored that because I thought that's not us. I just looked at the CRC part. So I So Yeah, so we should have been doing that over the last 10 years of the master plan of Looking at it and updating it And I think it's been done sort of informally, but there hasn't been really a formal process for for updating So this is you know, this is our shot to do the update So the the question is so the charter is says that Something like that council shall if there's a the council shall adopt the master plan So it's silent on is that a new master plan? Is that the existing master plan? What do we mean by adopt, but The only thing I was pointing out is that just using the master the word processing document itself The CRC MP suggestion was made by a member of the council Had made that right suggestion Yeah, so But it's I think that we should take up the suggestion whether it's something that we think Is important and how we would want to structure that Yeah, I would like to hear what you think To kind of pick the brains of you too having more experience what you think a working group of that sort could be Not that we have to establish it, but there've been various kinds of working groups depending upon What seems most appropriate? I think about things like the working group that work with the town manager on development of policies around marijuana regulation after the voters passed the initiative and There was Members of the select board which of which I was not one A couple members of select board there was Representatives of various town departments and I frankly don't know who else was involved those fairly large group there may have been some Buddy some community members I would really have to go back to somebody like miss Krueger and who was much more involved with it to ask how it was structured. I Know that for example, mr. Kravitz played a very large role in that is His role is the economic development direct for the town and Plus his legal background I think what we would need to do is think through that kind of a group which could involve And undoubtedly would involve members of the council is In this committee in particular We could involve appropriate members of the staff could involve People from the planning board directly in the process But I think we it's really up to us to create one that seems right for process that we under taking and I Would certainly look at mr. Zomek in this brush trip to give us some guidance on that from their experience in developing the prior plan So in a way the question is what kind of sandpaper should you buy at the hardware store because we've been the problem is we don't know As we take a deep dive into this How many things we see as issues that need to be updated? So I took a very cursory look from a Perspective of someone that hadn't looked at it a long time and I said oh this paragraph could be changed or this could be updated But really that it's so that but that's just my one opinion and others could see Structural, you know huge structural problems that involve entire rewrites of chapters and then the of course the Nuclear option is rewriting the whole thing. So I Guess I personally envisioned something like the by-law review committee, which is committee of six five or six something like that which could do You know I mean I don't want to say quick, but like a six-month Yeah Yeah Committee of five so that's what I was seeing but they could come to places where there really needs to be a rewrite Yeah, I don't know about that yet But through my reading over time in the last minutes of the master plan it seemed there was a structure there That could be carried forward could be changed that it was a solid structure it is important to me that we have residents on this Work in the working group and Again, I'll say not just professional residents who are architects of stuff because we can we have an abundance of that But also people from different areas of the community who can clue us in To things we're less aware of because of our privilege Yeah, I think that sounds good. I do think that we want to look and see if there are some areas that we might want to rethink But I the idea of building a whole new one is really just too upsetting to think about I Think we it's it's enough if we kind of rework some major areas and fix little things that Seem to be out of date or need fixing This is a great conversation and I'm not going to comment on everything, but I'm enjoying the conversation. I think there's a lot there Yeah, how much is enough I think that's going to be the question and so This idea of a working group sounds very interesting. There's lots of examples of where the town has Either the select board of the town manager has appointed people for a distinct period of time to accomplish a goal This is not a committee or a group that would stay together indefinitely But they would have a charge and they would work on this project for this period of time I think the key for me would be to that's point how we want there to be broad involvement from the community And that's the thing that takes more time energy staff time I Will say that many communities do bring in a third-party Expert for a variety of reasons one is to be a multiplier for staff Because we do have a finite number of staff members and they're typically maxed out But two is to bring their expertise from out there from other communities what have other communities done and How have they been successful and these consultants work with communities all over Massachusetts all over New England and We would likely select one with experience in communities like Amherst so they bring a really unique Perspective often which is which is wonderful the one bit of and and I know we're going to transition into other things in a minute But the one thing I'm thinking of too is again priorities and workload both for you Staff my staff because we have the master plan piece and then we're going to talk in a few minutes I think about about zoning. So these are two really big topics and Are very time-consuming for you as council members and members of the CRC and for staff So how we sequence these because there are relation there are Connections clear connections between the two as well, but I think in terms of workload. We need to think about that I know that The Charter calls for one every year the council needs to hold a meeting on the master plan So between now and December 31st. We need to hold a meeting on the master plan I Believe that's in the Charter. So that might be a good I think somebody referenced earlier a kickoff to this process that might be longer in duration of updating Hopefully, I don't want to put words in your mouth I think of it as an update to the master plan I agree with Dorothy the idea of throwing the whole thing out and starting from scratch is Quite daunting and I think the master plan by and large is a very good document I think the implementation sections need work and as Steve said there there are various sections that need updating It's it's been a while 2010.  We're allowed to be creative for the new rules of the I'm sorry as in a Community resident, I encourage you to see if you can get a representative of each of the academic institutions actively Working with you on the master plan in so far as you have the developments that are changing on their campuses and their master plans as part of your knowledge base because What Dorothy was referring to earlier today that? 1,000 bed Building this big impact on the neighborhood. I see parking overflow all the time in the downtown neighborhoods Both from UMass and and Amherst College when they renovated their field. I don't know if they're under the I Don't know if they have to have their plans reviewed in the way other developments happen here in town They don't but then the consequences of the way they do their developments overflow into the neighborhood streets so We have such large universities I don't even think you necessarily can find a consultant that could you find a model of a town exactly like ours with all that experience we're kind of like Forging new territory here with such large University populations and changes going on all the time. It's very dynamic That's me and so can I mean there aren't others in Massachusetts because we're the flagship so What I'd love to see my because I also work at UMass and then also involved in planning issues at UMass I Would love to see a consolidated master plan for zero one zero zero two and zero one zero zero three are There's a you know a single document because those are two almost equally sized entities that you know UMass plans right up to its borders and Amherst Plans big UMass has shown almost like a gray area because it's not under the control of the town and then vice versa So that was the has been one of the goals of the town gown committee So one of the because I was on the very original original town gown Committee and that was one of the goals is to bring together the two master plans the U3 consultants And a focus was really on the that edge area where the town and the gown meet each other So and actually a lot of what came out of the you know the gateway project, which was to be a town gown collaboration So but that's the history there. So I think it's a really good point about so the UMass has a campus planning committee the planning director is actually Ex officio a member of that committee and And I don't know if the reverse is true like our zoning subcommittee if it made sense to have someone for UMass or But I think it's a it's a good point Yeah So in in reference to Dave's comments If we have an expert and if there's a working group and let's just say that At this moment, I would say oh, I'd love to be on that working group But let's say that it turns out that I'm not on that working group and that most of us are not on that working group I mean, I don't quite know how this would be done What I would want to make sure that we do Before anything is turned over to experts is that we have a really deep visioning Experience I don't mean session I don't mean one meeting but that we really get a chance to talk about What we see what we see in the future what we hope will happen what we hope will not happen How we see the town of Amherst? So that if we don't be the ones who are putting in the exact language in the Revised master plan that we affect the vision of it Is that possible is that a rhetorical question? No, I want to know basically As I say this committee needs to be thinking about it and thinking create creatively. I don't think we have a Specific model to go from we have to come up with What works right for us? We'll come into some practical questions Like how many members of this committee? Should be involved with it because if you get a majority of the committee then you get some Legal questions that fall out of that But you know those are things we should think about and we need to answer them today our goal is today is to come up with a work plan and maybe This is a high-up item on the work plan order is Suggesting a working group format Great idea Let's keep moving. Oh I'm sorry. Yes Counselor Shane. Yeah, exactly Yes, Kathy, your address your address member of the public but also member of the rules Procedure committee where we wrote in workgroup and I just want to remind you It's just it's a workgroup of the council, you know that it can be created any way you want We want to as a council, so it's not asking the town manager to form one It's asking us to form one, so I just I just wanted to bring it back It I mean we we can get any advice too, but we Ressled with what it is and it's not a decision-making Entity comes back having thought through things and comes back So it's it's a creative idea that we found in several other towns that when they had something that wasn't a quick Discussion and it did involve residents. It wasn't just council members, so So yeah, so we have to work out what this thing is, but the thing the idea was it enabled us to wrestle with More complex issues Thank you my computer So we're on page. I See I'm back up today. My computer likes to crash. So we're gonna move on to zoning which is on page Yeah so page 17 so Zoning review assess revised zoning bylaws so In a way the so the order of this It's kind of suggesting the macro down to the micro or so the zoning bylaws supposed to relate to the Master plan so when we met with the zoning subcommittee they had Introduced a whole bunch of ideas from the very specific should there be three votes instead of four votes on site plan reviews To the macro. Should there be a new zoning bylaw? so I think that they in particular they introduced three different ideas that they thought were sort of the Bunny slope of you know getting started on Helping that you know helping to see how this new process might work So I'm actually gonna go to the zoning subcommittee meeting this afternoon at five and kind of talked through that also but In some ways So since the zoning bylaw is the actual bylaw the master plan is sort of the guiding principles of the town But the zoning bylaw basically puts the rubber to the road So that is the bridge document that helps deal with a lot of land use issues that this It has to be related to the master plan. This is how we see it's related. This is how it should be interpreted In some ways, I think dealing with the zoning bylaw is for me more of a priority because I think that there are Glitches in the zoning bylaw if you think about what we all discussed during the campaigns Much of it had to do with zoning and land use so I personally would put this as You know almost a higher priority Than you know the master plan. So I think the master plan is is a solid document I think that we need to do do we need to do do diligence on that but to me I think that some of the issues in the zoning bylaw are Will really affect the look and feel of the town So that's it I'm on the thing that says zoning review assess so Yeah, so spring 2019. This is spring 2019 still we've started So I'm on the second present presentation discussion of master plan and zoning 101. We essentially have done that Conduct field trips around town I'm all for field trips, but I'm not positive or we need that right at the moment Summer of 2019 Yeah Yep Thank You Dorothy one of the things I'm wondering is what is the process we're going to be doing? With the master plan with transportation with housing with zoning bylaws because you know, I mean we're talking about Working that through during the retreat and stuff, but if they're I guess I keep thinking well This seems overwhelming that but it wouldn't be if we had a process Does that make sense? Yeah, it does and I really struggle with this one too because I think in a way We need real things so in other words we could have we could like we have some real things Like 132 Northampton is you know a real tangible issue and which is causing us to you know figure out what our process could You know could be Public arts things that are being referred to us like the public art by law, so in some ways How do I say this? Like the three things a zoning subcommittee is proposing that we might want to take action on or that we might want to They're actually holding public hearings on some of these that that would be a Chance for us to see how we would process something like that so that would be so in a way I what I would love to do is to go through something like that you know go through real steps of how we review a Zoning by-law that's being proposed Before we try to determine what our process is it sounds a little backwards but otherwise so I Have a perfect example Some we have downtown Anchoring an area On East Pleasant Street, and we're told that demolition or there's a hearing on the demolition will go on And my thought is okay. I don't own any of this land, but somebody knows who owns it Is there any way for us or somebody to? Sit down with the people who own the land and say Can we have a plan can we have a coordinated plan? What zoning laws do we have in place that would aid or that would hinder this? I mean if you talk about real-life exercise, we're in the middle of one right now Or do we just let it happen? Because I don't know what's gonna happen. I don't know who has any power and what rules apply So let's take that as a case study. So we all read the Gazette that Or at least I read the Gazette that about this possible demolition of those three buildings So the question is what is the council's role in that? So the council's role is so we're the legislative branch. So we're the law We pass laws, right? So that's basically what we set the budget. We pass laws We evaluate the town manager I forget a few things like that So we don't get directly involved in like we don't police the streets. We don't write tickets So that's left to either the permitting bodies or to the executive branch so When I read that What I read was do our you know are the laws governing? The historic mission career that created and govern the rules that the historic commission are those the appropriate laws Assuming that there will be a new building or buildings presented Proposed for that are the laws that are in our purview are those the right laws? So so rather than but I do see a certain urgency So the master plan is kind of irrelevant to what may or may not happen to that land because it's the laws That are you know govern that so that's why I see this as almost a more urgent exercise Yeah Does that help at all? But does I mean we'll obviously learn a lot, but whatever happens is going to be there for a long time So I'm hoping that we can learn and we can see are the laws appropriate Let's say we find out our laws are not appropriate to do something that we all agree should be done We can't change them in time to do it So I mean it's it's going to be a great learning exercise and I look forward to you helping lead us through it But I hope that we can also influence to the good Yep in some way or that some other part of the town can influence to the good Influencing to the good my only concern with that is we might have different definitions of good And that feels what's powerful about this committee is that we're going to be looking at Impacts and trying to do that neutrally so in a certain way. It's letting go of whether I want that building there and Seeing is my position really supported by what we discover or do or is it actually more beneficial than we thought But in what ways so we can speak to that Yeah, Dave So again, this is a continuation of a great conversation and I'm enjoying every minute of a Couple of quick comments one is you know, I do agree with Steve that There are a number of possible real-world examples in our community that might be helpful for the CRC and perhaps other members of the council to Understand in more detail The article on the area near the the current pub in those buildings Is one such example? Without going into detail right now I can assure the CRC and the council that there is a very well Established very rigorous process that anyone would does need to go through in order to demolish a Structure or multiple structures in our downtown. I will say that just going back to a minute Something Steve said I do think Any vision that the current owners or a future owner have for that property is Informed by the master plan because and again, we need to recognize that the master plan is a broad document But it's been said many times before and I think it's worth saying again the master plan Spoke to densifying village senders That's where we want the growth to go we can disagree about How high the growth is or how wide the growth is or what architecture of the growth comes with But that's what we said we wanted in that master plan. So fundamentally if we If we don't have consensus on that as a community That's kind of a major thing we need to look at with the master plan But what we said ten years ago eight years ago nine years ago was we wanted Growth to happen in our village centers where the zoning supported such growth where they're on bus lines and bike paths and and Transportation and shops and services and not in outlying areas that we wanted to protect and preserve or keep as rural Outlying residential. So I think that's a fundamental piece And again, so I think there's a really well established process for the owners of this property And it might be Interesting if we take that as a little bit of a case study for you all to bring back Rob Mora and Christine Brestra up and outline for you what that process is And I think Steve to your point earlier about you know The zoning is set on that property So what the owners of that property can do is Very well known and we could easily have our staff come in and tell you what is possible Within the zoning the current zoning. So that's easy to do and we could do that at a future meeting So maybe put another way Any zoning by-law Change has to be related to the master plan. So I know it was said during the the campaign that Maybe it might even say in the charter that any zoning by-law has to relate to the master plan That there's a default state I believe it's a state law that says that land-use laws if there was a master plan the land-use laws Must relate to the master plan So the master plan says we want density You know or whatever it says we want infill we want density the zoning by-law makes that more specific We want five stories four stories. Whatever the number is 60 feet. Whatever, you know, 50 I don't know. I'm just making up numbers here in some cases there's minimum Setbacks and other cases there's maximum setbacks We think that if you're building in a certain area your building must not be more than blank because we don't want it to look like you know Hadley-Mall, you know or sometimes Actually when we were looking at form-based zoning There were also sort of minimum sizes like you shall not build less than blank to avoid kind of the under-using Or the kind of underused And so there is no form-based zoning right now in Amherst, but that you know that is certainly something that we've talked about looking at also Steve I think the other thing just to mention is that as we look at if you remember in the when Greg Stitzman did his wonderful overview of this Zoning prior zoning issues priorities 2019 We also talked about Kind of what are the zoning? I think Steve references earlier. What are the zoning subcommittees priorities on this? I think they're currently working on three. I think To be respectful to the zoning subcommittee I think it would be important for you and I know that's great that Steve is going to their meeting later today to let them know Do you think their priorities are things that? You and the council would want to work on this fall because I would hate to have them spend the next couple of months Developing those further and spending time on them if they're really not likely to to get traction Moving up through the council So I think that's something that Steve you can talk with the zoning subcommittee the other thing that you know staff and I have talked about over the years and I'll just plan to see it is that There has through the years been interest and we've seen this model work very effectively in other communities Having a zoning subcommittee that is broader than just members of the planning board and that has worked very effectively and very in a very inclusive way in Many other communities in Massachusetts where we expand the membership of the zoning subcommittee beyond the planning board And I I'm not sure if we talked about it when they were with us but having a member or two of the CRC having Residents having a business owner so that we get broader perspective I have great respect for the zoning subcommittee I will say that their meetings are not well attended and it's sad that they're not because they're so important the work They do is so important, but they labor in this room late nights many times in by themselves and then daylight their proposals and it would be wonderful if we had broader participation in in that groups through membership and and I don't know getting out in the community and seeing more how these Ideas these concepts for zoning change play out in the community. How what do people think? Is that a good idea for? You know changing the zoning in this part of town or amending a sign By law over here to you know impact that might impact downtown business owners or Village Center Business owners, etc. So without any specifics So one thing I know we already have but it's unfilled as a liaison to the zoning subcommittee So there are historically there was a select board Liaison, and I know I think that they have a counsel liaison So that person has not been appointed yet But it makes sense that it be somebody from this group So that's one reason that I wanted to Probably some of you already. I don't know who already goes to their meetings, but that's one reason This is a question to Dave So people have talked a lot about downtown To me and we know that the master plan calls for infill development But some of the questions that get I get asked again and again are what can you do by right? And what do you have to get a permit to do and how easy it seems to get a permit? So one of the questions is either what are the rules for how close a building can be to the street? This the narrowness of the sidewalks in front of this new build some of the new buildings Is is upsetting and of course if it says existing sidewalk, we know that some sidewalks are very narrow Some sidewalks are very broad Is there anything because people want a broader sidewalk more space between the building and the street The buildings were built with no underground parking because I believe The dogma and I will call it a dogma is that we don't need to have parking with buildings And this was in the newspaper too in the downtown area because there's plenty of parking, but Many people say there really isn't plenty of parking so and also There's nothing that says you have to have some affordable apartments in any building That what's going to be built is going to be there for a very long time And I just it's very frustrating feeling that we're on this committee And we're going to be looking at all of these things and looking at them from the impacts on people on neighborhoods on residents and By the time we get ourselves organized These new buildings will be built and may not exemplify some of the adaptations. I mean, we know there's going to be buildings We accept that you can't we can't change that but just minor adjustments in how they're positioned and That for the parking and whatever could make a great difference in how people feel about their downtown Yeah, let me take a stab. So the zoning by-law He has evolved. It's like a pearl So it's evolved over time. So it's not it's purposely it's purposely hard to change a zoning by-law So it requires a there'd be a proposal than public hearings And I'm going to miss some steps Then a recommendation by the planning board then it goes to whether you know for us it was town meeting Or city council goes to city council that then has to be two-thirds vote Then has to be reviewed by the attorney general's office town councils town attorneys weighed in somewhere along the way so Lots and lots of chances for people to weigh in on the pluses the minuses so I think that our zoning by-law has You know, it's been a slow deliberative process with Town meeting because town meeting really typically met twice per year You know blah blah blah oftentimes zoning by-laws were very very difficult to get through town meeting so It's perfect, but it's purposely meant to be slow and so that actually is a lot of people's concerns about The new form of government is that the process will be too quick either way it might be too quick you know Moving from Four stories to 12 stories are moving from four stories to zero stories So I think I think it's something that does require a lot of deliberation on our part There will be efforts and lobbying to to get us to change it You know in various ways, but I think it's something that we really need to Yeah, but I'm sorry someone One is that The Charter really does create a lot of opportunity that didn't exist before because what happened was is that the Soning subcommittee would make a proposal of planning board planning board would make the Proposal to town meeting Town meeting was a big body and didn't have a committee that was working on it beforehand of The town meeting because that's not what the nature of a town meeting is And it only met twice a year, so it had to act during the time period that it was there With our new procedure. It still requires two-thirds under current law Two-thirds of a different body, but what we have that didn't exist before is if there was a feeling that She is close, but not quite there It doesn't have to go back and then take another six months to come back to the legislative body because legislative body meets year-round and Furthermore, there is this committee that has a role that we need to perfect so that when Proposals come that we have a higher level of understanding of what the planning board is thinking and can they have that first round of discussion with them and This and and we need to sort of Develop an understanding of what our process is in Taking the recommendations and bringing them to the legislative body, which is the council of which we are committee But I think that there's a lot of opportunity in that there's a lot of opportunity to do it, right? And that's the real challenge that I see that is here As far as affecting a Single proposal whether it be what's talked about for those three buildings and these pleasantries or anything else That becomes a little bit more complicated because it depends on when they filed their application because the zoning law that applies is the zoning law that applicable at that time so you can't As a legislative body or as a planning board planning board can't go and change something after the application is filed because it didn't like the contents of the application and the ability to have a Conversation at an early stage. I frankly would look to mr. Zomek from his breaststroke for their experience as to whether that is viable and workable Solution or whether it doesn't really depend upon who The owner of the property is that is seeking develop it because my suspicion is that some Property owners are more interested in being collaborative than others and But I would rely on Experiencing people who have to deal with it in on the ground level to say that with certainty One thing I would note this is just a little point We probably do not need to get the Attorney General approval any longer on zoning bylaws because we are now a city and That rule is applicable to towns, but not the city I just had a question because I thought the it's two-thirds of 13 equals So the other thing is and now we're going down into the The rabbit hole. There's the rights of the property owner. So if you own property in Amherst, you Mean that there's the extreme so you feel that you I mean the one extreme is that those that feel that proper Their property should not be regulated and then there's the extreme that all properties should be regulated But the one has to also consider Someone who has bought property and it is expects to be able to do something with it whether it be a single-family house or a Auto repair store, you know based on You know, they're reading of what the zoning by-law is and it takes some time perhaps to to get that done So there's concern always about down zoning so that you buy land you you want to do a two-family house And by the time you get around to it, it's been down zoned So you can only do a single-family house. You basically have lost an Opportunity to have an income stream that would help you pay for You know, you bought the land at a certain price, you know, etc. etc so that's always a concern with zoning changes is The town or the city taking away your right to develop something and who pays for that difference who pays for the Delta of What you could have built versus what you can now build so it doesn't mean that down zoning is Illegal it just means that that becomes a possibly a contentious issue So we don't need these goals because we're going to solve everything today my suggestion is that Putting this on the chair, of course since he's since I'm not the chair that the chair take the discussion that's came today to think about a refinement on this document Which you could send to this committee? Yep, as long as we don't respond to the group but only respond back to the chair or even more perfectly Save our response until the next meeting. Yep, and Then come back and have a further discussion of it because I think that there Has been a great discussion and a lot of good ideas have come forward and both is More specificity on how the processes work, particularly what we really did three is we did the Questions with the relationship with the university, but that was a fairly brief discussion much more on the master plan and zoning and How the timeline fits together the steps in the timeline I will do that. So I'll take us up to page 17 or whatever it is and then we'll Continue again. So we went through this one time when we were brand new and I think it's actually very helpful to do it again So let's do talk about our schedule. So I Don't think so because we have You know 12 minutes to go and I think we do need to talk about Another case Another case study will be the public percentage for the money for the arts that that was brought up to us that is an issue that We can do it. I think I think it's gonna be a lot easier than zoning in the master plan But we do need to put time into that sometime in the future. So so there Thank you for that. So in a way the way that I see agendas developing over time is One are the kind of long-term goals That in many ways line up with the town council goals here The other ones are things that fall in our lap through referral So we don't have on here the public art For example, so that is something that we need to deal with and I think we should we need to have it on the next agenda Whenever that is and then but then we also need to be mindful So we don't want to just be so I think that I can envision that our committee meetings will have two parts to it One is sort of the long-term sort of focusing on the goals of the council and the second one are Not to say emergencies, but things that have been referred to us or have fallen in into our laps could be other things so I We had initially talked about meeting every single week and I think that I Don't think that's realistic. So I think it's really hard on staff and I also think it's really hard on us so so the I Know we have a lot on our plate, so I Was going to propose that we meet once a month I would love to see all of the committees get on and I know finance committee might be different But I'd love to see all the committees get on to kind of a once a month Schedule which is actually how they do it across the river in Northampton but because I'm wondering if every other week like every two weeks might be More realistic considering that we do have all of these goals we need to get started on Yeah, I'm not sure as much as I would like to make it every other week I don't think that's a good idea right now I think we have things as you say dropping on our plate Legitimately and we're not prepared with any kind of process to meet them I feel like look at the time that we took today just to look at the goals And I feel like okay. That's basically done. We're looking at it and we're saying these timelines are okay We're gonna with your help refine the timelines, but I'm not comfortable with Definitely not yet comfortable with meeting once a month for two hours. I would see it as a much Longer process and I'm as tired as I can get I would like to meet every week for now Well to answer the question for the finance committee the finance committee doesn't have a balanced Portfolio throughout the year because we were working towards a budget As I reported at the very end of the meeting on Monday You know into July we now have three meetings scheduled as opposed to two meetings a week and that's just the nature of it As far as but I think getting back to this committee I would go With the idea of every other week for a little bit until we see because I think that it does take Some time between meetings to sort of recollect To collect what has happened and prepare for the next meeting and to do that on a weekly schedule. It's to be very Demanding once a month Doesn't get you the continuity so every other week seems to be the what I would recommend and Additional than meetings if there are a particular matter referred that has a deadline to it I don't think that the percent for arts has a deadline to it I'll give my comment that I Certainly could see meeting every other week but I Would like a more specific As I said to you before I see some of this it would be better as almost as a course with homework Where we have certain Documents that we are studying looking at and responding to and we come together to do that and which means That I guess I'm asking Steve with I will help in any way I can to put together the syllabus But you know and you've done them and I've done them once you've got the syllabus done It's really gravy. Yeah, you know, but just because when we do our town council meetings They we have that list of documents you read those documents you begin to feel okay. I'm prepared. I'm prepared So far we haven't quite known how to how to be prepared for these meetings because we're in the exploratory phase Exactly, but we know we've got a lot we have to do so if we had a more set agenda I think we could handle it every two weeks I Could go along with that but the important thing is Knowing what we're going to be working on so one percent from our maybe isn't at our next meeting, but we had Speed limits. We haven't looked at those. You know, there's We need to know what we're going to be working on The report of the parking working group is also going to come to us And Most importantly we need to figure out what's Important and what can wait so like what's urgent and what's not urgent and that I think that's one thing that we We will struggle with like like Just because And I am I think the speed looking at the speed limit is a great idea But because it's a great idea doesn't mean that it should bump You know everything else so there is a certain time management that we have to you know get good at There's also things that are I think are really important like 132 Northampton Road I think I have the right address is an important issue and we might be hearing the same things over and over but I think that it's important to You'll give a place whether how imperfect as it may be for People to voice pros and cons You know, even though it's not on the end, you know, it's Yeah, no, I like your your flexible You response, I think it's very important that we have that and I mean you do that very well Thank you So all of that said Two weeks, I'm not gonna be here.  So can you can you chair? Okay No, we on the 12th. Well, of course the other thing we could do just is meet on the two week schedule starting with the 12th if That would give us meetings where the chair can be present. Okay. I'd be happy to do that Yeah, let's do that. Okay We'll meet on the 12 so the agenda. So let's talk about the agenda. So the agenda will be We should take a look at the public art Can't get the book button. Okay, we need an assignment in master plan is zoning perhaps. Yeah Actually, one thing will be the playing board actually has public hearings tonight. I believe on some of the zoning bylaws I Was purposely mumbling because I think the Playing board is starting their public hearings on zoning bylaws so Here's another thing that we're not clear on that would those come directly to us or do they go to the council then? To us. I think they go to the council. Yeah. Yeah. Okay, so we can't So public art start chipping away. I'll look at what we have said for goals Starts public art is concerned. I Actually Because of the finance committee and because I've had the role in the select board of working as a select board lay us on to the Arts Commission in developing Public arts bylaw long. I'm sort of in this place where I have a different level of involvement with that already What I was going to do is Try and see if I could outline what the issues are and then share that with the president to make sure that President's not in disagreement with that listing of what the issues are and then As I thought about it seems that if the issues are identified they should come here We should not be starting with the proposed bylaw. We should be starting with what is the goals and limits and As far as the finance committee is concerned There is a cost consequence to doing this and That needs to be understood too So I'm trying to weave I was thinking through it from both committees, which I'm a member as well as my prior expertise Steve is it realistic that we If you and I work together to come Back next Wednesday with a with a draft syllabus Maybe outlining the next three months of meeting topics and it's you know, it's flexible We'll be flexible, but at least we could have some benchmarks Perfect. Yeah, okay with that Yep Okay, sir second All in favor raise your hand