Welcome to Pukie Pondas, the podcast where I explore big questions with brilliant people. Today's question is, what are some common misunderstandings about autism? And I'm in conversation with Andrew Edwards. Hi, my name is Andrew Edwards. I'm 35 years of age. I'm from Wrexham in North East Wales and I'm a pretty time published author including a well-received 2015 memoir on my life with autism entitled I've Got a Stat for You, My Life with Autism. Head of the talk to that, I used to work at Manchester Italian Television for the last half years as a broadcast statistician. And I've also been invited to House of Parliament and Buckingham Palace. Quite a CV there, and quite a wide range of stuff as well. One more thing, I've also been a guest on the Today programme. Oh wow, tell me about that. What did you go on the Today programme to talk about? Well, about my life with autism, Pukie. I was eventually still available to listen to online five and a half years later. I was actually by John Humphreys. He was in his house from Ravens Court Park in West London. I was recording it, recording the interview in the University in Wrexham. And there was another lady in between who was a new broadcasting house. And I was in, I was fighting down the publisher for my memoirs at the time that I'd written. Previously, I'd maybe have done it from Manchester Italian Television after like half years. I think it was a good thing that happened really because it's run its course. It was a wonderful time, but it'd run its course. And so I decided to write my memoirs about just to some publishers. Jessica King was republishing Turn Me Down amongst others. And then I got in touch with some media companies to see if anyone wanted me, I wanted me on just to see, just to get some publicity to see if it would work. And I was contacted by the Today programme. And one thing led to another and I was a guest on it on Easter Saturday 2015. Unfortunately, my future publisher, Benny and Cerny, were listening. Chat me down because I had very little online press at the time. I was on social media. I was still on social media in a fashion. And James told them you TV, my publisher. And the rest especially, I signed the deal exactly the minute a year later, I was made and done a promotion on television. Oh, wow, wow. That's quite a milestone moment.  I want to talk about it on today and things like that. What were you hoping to sort of achieve with that? Well, I was sort of, I've led an interesting life. Like I was at a very checkered schooling. I was allegedly tied up in one school for my staff. I was the only child who could speak in the class. And in another school, I was allegedly, and I use that term very, very loosely, allegedly assaulted by a member of staff who has a close family there, who's a high-poor-poor television personality in their family. And it was just, and also I'd overcome that. I managed that in my life to achieve milestones to working with my satelination. I was only supposed to be there one day and I was there 11.5 years. There are just certain aspects I thought I had an interesting story to tell. And I really wanted to break down perceptions of guiding autism. The way that specialist diagnosed me to my mother in April 1989 and he said, go home and watch Raidman. He's just likely to use someone being institutionalised. So that's how I was diagnosed at the age of four. Well, that was the term that approved him wrong. So I think we've done that. So I basically went to, I basically thought I had an interesting life and thought it was a story to tell. I didn't get a story to tell if I didn't have autism. So that was an advantage in my respect of regular memoir. Because autism was the selling point. Even at the time people, some of them, they thought my satelination would have been more of a selling point because of my satelination. I could go on the biggest book of the world. But very much as autism has been the selling point with the book. And I just wanted to break, break my feelings and emotions down to hopefully make a relatable and interesting story. And have people responded to your story in the way that you hoped that they would? Do you think it's helped people understand autism a bit more? Hopefully, yes. It's been very well received to my face. And I've had good testimonies from some well-known personalities, quite a few well-known personalities. And I'd certainly say it's sold more than statistically you would expect because statistically only 50% of books, published books sell 200 or more copies. And I've sold all 121, all 122, which grants a few things when you think of all the big sellers. It's not many, but it's actually a lot when you consider 50% of all published books sell 200 or less copies in their lifetime, copies on units. And I think I've done pretty well. Most of the books that have sold have been on a face-to-face basis because I've done online because I do give non-profit speeches in North Wales and North Wales and the North West of England. I don't tend to travel for that, but I don't really see it as a career. I hope that some people who are autistic check hundreds and hundreds of pounds going in everywhere. There was one who went to Palmerston North in New Zealand. He said he's either there in 2013, but you just think, well, that's a bit much. And also with the non-profit speeches, I do like to have variety with them, but I just wanted people, I think, to my face, how sensitive they are to it, so that's good. And what do you think are some of the things that people don't understand about autism clearly when you were originally diagnosed, then your mother was given a very different sort of outlook on your life than how things have turned out. So could you talk to us a little bit about that, about the things that you think people don't understand and what perceptions perhaps need to change? I think, I don't think people realise that autistic people can be empathetic, opposite to myself. I can't always speak for others, but certainly if I am, I just assume others are so empathetic, perceptive, self aware, not particularly why we're too geeky, and just certainly interested in sports and exercise and training and health. And I think that lots of people with autism would benefit from a healthy lifestyle if they could find the correct encouragement or the correct environment. Because I've heard a statistic that, part of my mind was that I think the average age lifespan of someone who's so-called high functioning on the spectrum is 16 years less than the average for the average for the United Kingdom. And that I think is just obviously some of these high functioning people may have additional health problems, but the thing is 16 years, blink and act, that's a lot, 16 years less than the average. And I think there's a lot of people with disabilities, generally not just autism, who aren't encouraged to trade, who aren't encouraged to live healthy lifestyles, and I can say being self aware, being able to speak my feelings and emotions, being able to see out certain ways people pick on certain behaviours, and be very sensitive to the surroundings that's a man. So that's a massive misunderstanding, I think, isn't it, that people assume that, yeah, if you're autistic, you don't feel somehow, there's that real misunderstanding. And I think that what you're kind of touching on here as well about perhaps people having low aspirations, whether that's in regards of health and fitness, or maybe what you might be able to achieve is potentially an issue as well, do you think? I don't have no aspiration, but I don't think you actually have to generally say, well, you're going to be Prime Minister, although there has been someone autistic or has been Prime Minister in Gordon Brown, but the interesting part of, like I say, about high aspirations were the best footballers of all times autistic, Lionel Messi, Robbie Williams, Sir Anthony Hopkins, Manchal Madison III, Eminem's autistic. And when I was growing up, you never tended to have it mentioned that people with autism could achieve. So you didn't have anyone you could particularly relate to, although it doesn't necessarily mean you're going to accomplish what those people have accomplished in their field, but it's just, it's very much a smorgasbord, pooky, pooky. It's called the spectrum condition for a reason. I think one that you've got to really have in life is achievable goals. Even during the lockdown, with Wales it's about to go into lockdown in about 55 minutes again, and you've got to have achievable goals in life. You've got to set achievable targets. Excuse me, and you've got to have achievable goals. You can't just say, and if you have achievable goals, from your beginning point, then your middle and end point would be more goals that you want to be able to think that we're achieved from the beginning. So it's about evolution really. And how do you think that we can support, if I were a teacher or a parent of an autistic child, and we wanted to help them to kind of set and achieve achievable goals, as you say, what can help with that? What can help you in the past? People speaking in a nice manner. People, a calm person. Someone who's very calm. Someone who's very clear. Someone who's potentially a little bit concise in their instructions. But no ambiguity. I don't like ambiguity, to be honest. I can't hack that. Someone who's very clear in the communication and someone with no ambiguity, which I think those are big points of reference for me. And are there things that make things particularly difficult? Are there things that people get wrong often that you think we should avoid? Sometimes, just being honest, I didn't know that much about my condition until after I wrote the book, obviously I knew the call today, so I knew I was autistic. I knew I was always going to be autistic. But I've learnt quite a bit of peripheral traits since I wrote the book. Like even I dated a girl and she told me something very interesting that this is very, very peripheral. That I probably got the toilet last minute because of my autism and my hand was quite bad because of my autism. I never had my ID until then. And little things with what I learned about this. A little bit more perception. I've been driving lessons, I've been getting driving lessons. And sometimes my perception doesn't work when I'm driving in the lessons. And just what the other thing I read a lot recently is perception, sensory issues. Yeah, I knew about sensory issues in a fashion, but it's also like clumsyness as well. Very occasionally I have to be clumsy.  I've been overloaded in such matters. So it sounds like you actually learnt a lot about yourself whilst writing the memoir. It sounds like quite a journey. I think I knew that I experienced these traits and these personality traits. But I couldn't figure out what was the autism and what wasn't. And that's always a very interesting point. When people say nature or nurture with someone, it's the same with my autism. What part is me as a person? What part is the autism? Like I just think that autism is a genetic thing. I think it's pretty much, to be safely to be assumed that autism is a genetic condition. But I didn't realise what family member it was. But just before I was writing my name, I didn't realise which family member it was. So it was a family member I didn't model with and then died since.  You've written a book and you go and you speak to people about it. Is it one of the most important things about you? Do you think? Or are there other things that you think... More important matters than my autism to be honest, because I'm not attuned by it. My family won't allow it. So I'm sure you're talking about autism now. I've changed the subject. I just said matters like what I find and more important with me are like cricket, training, music, comedy, gigs. Obviously gigs are not permissible at the moment with the pandemic. But socialising with my mates, although I don't drink because of the medication I'm on with my autism. But I like to... Oh, that's another thing I like to break down. The autistic people can be very, very, very sociable and have made the answer. I understand that. I still like to break down. You can have made some all kinds of walks of life personalities. When people who are autistic stay with typically or typically, I don't know which, tend to have people who are autistic themselves or no mates at all. It's very much not like that with me. I've had mates who've been... where I've been with television presenters. I've had mates who've been a form of racial footballer. I've had all kinds of mates. The mates who are solicitor. And all kinds. I could list them all, but I'd be just very boring. But I can see with the autism, it's not the most important part of me.  But no, it's not every part of me. Like some people are autistic and can choose them. But that's all they talk about. Day in, day out and stuff. And you've got more than that. I just think I like to have a variety of interests. Yeah, that makes a lot of sense.  Exactly, yes. Exactly. That's a very well put pookie. Because I'm not particularly warned for the signs of autism because I'm not qualified to go down that route. But I might mean my family have always been very much into the practicalities of such matters. This is an issue. How are we going to manage it? That's what we're into. We're going into practicalities. We're not into the signs of it because we're not qualified to assess the signs of autism. Well, I know of this one speaker who charges quite a lot. He's quite a lot. He's from Northback, he's from 25 minutes from Brexit. They charge top dollars. He's going all out the signs of it because he's not qualified to do with it. It sounds like you're all about overcoming stuff and actually not saying... Managing. Managing. Because really, in life, you never overcome anything. You don't manage it if you're lucky, if you're fortunate, and if you're successful, but you never overcome a matter. You never overcome a matter. You never overcome a matter. You never overcome. You learn to manage. Manage. It sounds like you've got quite good support network in terms of friends and family when faced with obstacles or challenges. What does that look like? Could you maybe talk us through a time when there was something that you wanted to do or that was more challenging and you've had to manage that and you've had some help with it? Well, where else would we have done that from my side of the television? My sister who lives next door to me and our mother decided to become my carer because all the support from the NHS had been cut. So I had a bit left with nothing. Just doing the way I told them all day, doing nothing. And so she said, I'm not going to let that happen to Andrew.  And we're going to invite that book Andrew. We're going to write that book. I'm going to help you get the feelings out with that book. My mum was there because she kept the papers for meetings and so forth. And also I wrote two other books, Pookie. I wrote one in a local football cricket club in Exum. And I wrote another one called A Vision of Exercise about which featured contributions from many different aspects of sport. Next slide. It's clearly from level athletes, currents and father, to just regular people who find training as a release for the fundamental health health generally. That sounds really interesting. What inspired you to write that? Well, exercise has helped me. But why didn't you exercise actually helped me at that point? Until I teach gyms to a gym on the one HSP in Queensferry. When I sat in the book, I was going to enjoy training but by the end of it, I was going to enjoy it because I coached trainers or coaches. It was more qualified the one I went to in Queensferry. I realised they enabled me to enjoy it and I still got that gym now. But I didn't coach because the other one moved to careers. But it's very much number one, saved me in the summer of 2017. My mental health was playing quite bad. It wasn't probably lucky back. It was the worst at the Southern Mental Health issues in my life. But it wasn't because of you either way. The gym helped me enormously. It gave me a reason to get up every morning. And it does. Obviously it's going to be close in two weeks. But it's also given me the two rules to train at home. That's another thing. My sister was very good during the first lockdown when she actually turned her garage into a gym. Into a very, very good gym so we could train at home and my coach, who replaced Gernaith, who was a lovely lad, a fantastic coach, but he wasn't a fantastic coach too. He programmed all my sessions on an app to take down all the repetitions, take down the weight. I suppose we had a lot of weight at home at home that we had. So I could continue to train. So training means a lot to me. It's not the condition you're running. So I'm playing cricket. So sport and exercise then has been really important for you and for your mental health. Why do you think it's helpful? What about it? Is it a release or is it that kind of routine or connecting with people? Do you know what to put your finger on it? I tend to say we just mean like coach. Because over time I met up my mates in different environments. Recently I met up with a group in the cricket, a church cricket club. But in the past I met a lot of my mates in Cambridge, Manchester television, but it's very much a release training mentally and physically and it helps me compartmentalise the whole of my life. It's like Jim, afternoon, it helps you compartmentalise like I'm looking at starting a new job paying position in the new year. So when I volunteer that for many years for a more heritage trust I just use this example. If I'm at the gym in the morning they always say you can go to the gym first then come to us. So it's compartmentalised different clothes and different situations. Different clothes and different situations, different mindset different situations. And it's helped me enable me to get different mindsets and different set ups in whatever I do. And you said that the gym helped you when you had that difficult patch with your mental health as well. Is that something that you're happy to talk a little bit more about? Yes.  I had a couple when I was at Manchester Italian. I did lucky back now probably had one after when I was allegedly assaulted by member of staff when I was 11 at a school I went to. That was probably looking back now that was bad mental health but that was probably one PTSD as they call it. But when you're 11, 12 you just know you're happy you don't really know what mental health is.  But I had a really bad mental health spell at Manchester Italian television around about 2011, 2012, 2013 and early 2014. Well probably 2012, 2013, 2014 were the worst. And probably a little bit in the summer of 2017. But I see it being in the 2017 when it was probably milder than the type one Manchester Italian television back between 2012 to 2014. And the gym helped you through some of those? Parly in 2012 Parly in 2012 to 2014 but it wouldn't have probably that much in that year because the environment I was in training it wasn't very good wasn't very good at all looking back. When in 2017 I changed the environment to a much more community-based environment with a non-profit gym that encompassed even the need level athletes in the area to people who just take their training seriously and a very nice sponge as well as as well as just coaches were very very qualified there and it's a better environment but I do think that everyone you've got to find an old environment an all-correct environment for them and it took me probably about 13 years to find the correct environment. Wow. And what about it is it that's right for you now because you sound so happy when you talk about it now it sounds like it's such a positive force in your life? Yes it is and not only is it positive in my life it's positive in my sister's life she's very positive for her so that's we don't always train together apart from on a Wednesday in the gym the next couple of weeks the next couple of weeks I would say that we don't hurt you after she's finished next door and then we'll go and separate us but usually a week to week I'll try to block down even circuit breakers whatever she usually trains after me on a Monday or a Tuesday when she trains on her own with programmes set up by the National Commission it's a big force a positive in our family generally so It's really good to hear and it sounds like your sister is a really important person and influence in your life as well So it's my mum so I'm sure she would want to be praised so mum's very much mum has to fight for everything I don't remember about the emotional strength when I was going out to fight everything fight everything with that when I was the one who didn't beat me enough it was like all these people all these professionals against this lady who probably thought she was a nuisance just protecting your orthopedic son it was immensely difficult for me when I was growing up and then after that I had meltdowns I was really affected by it and she was a power of strength she's got one of the most emotionally strong people I've ever come across and she had a very bad accident six and a half years ago just after I left when she was on television and people who aren't as emotionally strong as they would never have come back from but she does everything in power just to live a life that's quite good for her today she's 78 years in February every second but she's one of the most most strong people I've ever come across probably the most of the most she's done person I've ever come across because without her when I was growing up I don't know what would have become of me and I don't know what would have become of me more in recent years of Malony but with mum certainly when I was growing up Malony would not have been able to help with that because mum put all the foundations in place to enable me to have this to enable me to have the job I had and the future job I wanted to have but like I said there's one thing I really if I could one thing in the future I would like to well two things, two items I'd like to do one is to pass my practical driving test and one is to have a long term relationship with a girl those both are like really good and they sound achievable aims, hard work I think the driving is more achievable than that but it's going to take time the actual dating I could tell you some stories about some of the situations that I've come across online dating some situations you never thought humankind would actually stoop so low it's not met some nice people but there's some people some really odd people as well I've stood up four times but it's taken to get to Liverpool and the girls stood me up despite reading all my messages when I was giving an update to where I was another one with the same name with the same name spelled differently stood me up a maximum because she's from a maximum that didn't matter so much and irritating though it was another girl stood me up twice another girl with the same name but spelled differently again to the other two girls she she's writing about her names by 10 years fortunately I found this out a day before we went on a date so dodged that and another girl I went on two dates with had my first kiss with her she was very much she broke up with me but she got a best mate she involved who she worked with saying oh the put so and so was not very good today she's devastated as well and then she was going to then she was going to then she wasn't touching me on what to block her on that then I see she was back on the dating site then the next morning I was going to a football match in the Welsh Premier League to watch one of my best mates manage and I got this big man managed proposal offer saying can I meet her with you I want to propose to you whoa screenshot I thought whoa I had some good experiences I was a lovely girl I went out with went out with for three months we dated for three months but it peated out but I learnt a lot from that there was a very positive experience I got nothing but positive experiences from the last part of it but with the lockdown it was successful but generally the coronavirus pandemic it's probably about the worst time you can possibly think of but going on dates and starting a relationship probably even worse than World War II Boogie I think yeah it's a tough time one of my best friends is also dating using online dating at the moment and he said similarly that it's it's especially challenging it's not going to happen in this year especially if you come from Wrexford Boogie out of London because a sign of an autism dirty website and there she's like people either from America or from the south east of your neck of the woods in London and when you're from Wrexford there's not even many from Manchester Liverpool as well and do you specifically use so it's an autism dating site specifically you want to meet someone else who's autistic not necessarily no not necessarily but I'm open to that but on dates with girls or autistic I've met our traditional dating sites I thought my either way as long as someone that's compatible with someone I get on with someone that likes me for who I am and I like them for who they are I'm open minded regarding that but I think I've got to be honest with myself and on dates with girls they'll probably have to have some sort of some sort of condition of some sort of OCD some sort of physical disability or or something something that probably rather than someone who's got nothing nothing but they've not got anything particularly particularly any conditions because I think but then it's not just autism it's OCD and other things, dyspraxia I think she's got dyspraxia I've actually been on a date with a girl with dyspraxia as a dyspraxic comedian that wasn't too bad but there was no spark what makes you say that you feel that you would need to go out with a girl who had some condition or disability I think I've tried the other way and I've actually been on dates with girls I only started dating again October 2018 I was almost 34 then I was actually approached to go on at the blue to approach to go on a high profile dating series on television I was sold by then to six weeks who were at North East Wales in the summer of 2080 and that fell through at the end because sort of it means to me to put it mildly it was just thought it wasn't autistic enough so they wanted me to crack basically but it made me think I didn't want to look I wasn't lucky for dating at that point I was lucky for trying to lift my profile but it was very much a case of asking that and I was like yeah I think I could go on a date I could go somewhere a date a girl but I had a very mixed mixed mixed experiences I think certainly with online dating ostensibly it tends to be you've got all this choice but there's a lot of on people as well it's very but also you've got to answer people who want to be in open relationships like Brad Pitt's new girl basically it's it's jungle out there it's like it's not what you want in life because I find the people are unwilling to give people a chance like there won't be day to day life or like talk to who we are now or this is very much a working working conversation but you're willing to give people that opportunity to speak and express themselves where on my dating people you could be talk to people very kindly very friendly one minute but the next minute the next second literally and it's like I know it's something within that but it's like all what I do, what I smell it's like it's like it's hard ideally with me I was late to it on Thursday but I certainly think outside of Covid it would be more beneficial to meet someone in an organisation meet someone at a club sport club or work but that doesn't tend to happen anymore because the shared interest clubs for someone like myself like we've discussed the way I express myself people with autism who might be more high functioning don't tend to navigate to those places where people with only difficulties tend to which is not to suspect to those particular people but it's like obviously obviously there's people out there who are autistic I'm open minded about but I do think realistically that someone with some form of autism I don't think there's that many it's very very very very quiet that dating site that's where autism it's very very very very quiet it's not going to happen on there and it's not going to happen because of Covid probably until next summer the very earliest but probably realistically if I was honest there are more girls who are probably either who are hired up on the spectrum are certainly got a certain trait of OCD autism distracts here but are still very intelligent very articulate have a smorgasbord of interests but could relate to people there are people like that that exist the last girl I dated for three months was proven that she had obsessive compulsive disorder and we had a lot of share especially a substance and so forth so it's a girl that I do exist and they probably do exist on traditional dating sites but they won't probably exist on disability art autism dating sites what would say yeah absolutely so yeah I suppose it's it's about finding that you only need to find one right person that's a very positive way to look pooky that's very positive and the thing is the thing is with the dating sites there's a lot of having to siphon stuff out beforehand and what I found before was I've spent most of my life on that someone got it back to me someone got it back to me and that's one thing with the lockdown of the coronavirus pandemic I've actually enjoyed where it's not been a case of looking at my phone all the time yet contact people via email via WhatsApp via text but it could be very intense those dating sites and that's ideally I want to avoid them if I'm running out of law ideas you said that you're maybe looking at getting a new or different job at some point yes this has been a long time coming pooky it's very much very very very very accommodating it's because it's going to be lossy funded it's going to be lossy funded it's for the heritage cost in next sub because I can't work more than 60 hours to certain matters but in a week but they're going to accommodate it like I went on a trial there last year just to get a taste of the environment but and I've volunteered there for quite some time off and on and part of the local football cricket club was to do with my volunteering there it's something they were just waiting well hoping for lossy funding millions and millions and millions of lossy funding for the agile cost millions and millions but very much a big enormous heritage attraction in the area in Brumbol on the old steelworks very much and they're open to open sometime on about 2023-2024 so it's very much it's going to be tens of millions of public funding behind it lossy array and other matters and it's been a long time coming I haven't been in a paid position since 1990 television but part of the event was but that wasn't that much but basically with the job I'm really looking forward to it and it used to be getting closer and closer and closer and I know it's going to be a very accommodating environment where all that necessarily just have been made or will be made sorry I know everything will be very calm that you clearly explained to me by my manager I was going to ask about what kind of accommodations help you in the workplace obviously you held your role at Manchester United for a very long time so clearly that worked well for you or I assume say yeah I'm a different person to that now because I'm more I'm just able to deal with certain matters better and more mature I always met my support worker who's my support worker at the time who's also my brother-in-law but a brumbo I'm going to be on my own but then I don't need any help in that way because I know what's expected of me I'm a different person I'm more mature my sister's enabled my sister's worked with me has enabled me to deal with such occurrences and I know with my boss at Brumbo that he'll explain everything clearly, concisely and calmly in a manner that I understand and I will get the message if I've committed committed a full part of something wrong and I know it's going to work because I'm a different person at MUTV and I know very much that people are feeding that it was a very relaxed environment shall we say and just going completely back I'm interested to know a little bit more about your childhood because you talked about your mum having to kind of fight a lot of battles and the emotional strength that that took and also about how that specialist said, you know, go home and watch Rain Man your son will be institutionalised and I'm just really interested to know really what was it that your mum did, what was she fighting for in order to mean that that future was incorrectly predicted and obviously you've completed everything, everything you could think of okay, one famous story was after I was allegedly beaten up but I like to be assaulted by the member of staff in that school when I was 11 which is outside the county of Wrexham I can say that because there's 10 counties and there's 45 villages in Wrexham but basically but basically she broke into the head of Wrexham Education's Office afterwards and she remember and the thing was she wanted to see the head of education at the time, this was there in 1998 I was going to see Christopher's then she wanted to get the support worker for me and she wanted it was my brother-in-law and she also wanted to get the support that required to go and see Christopher's school in Wrexham Special School and basically it goes on, oh he's not in today and I was thinking I'll wait and the member of staff goes is someone sorry, no just go ahead, go ahead so she memorised the buttons of the code, memorised it went through, went to the office and gave me some what he deserves and yeah yeah I'll do it so that's what you do at the base that's what got me there so you've had your mum in your corner fighting for you all the time and why do you think that she didn't accept that initial speculation from that specialist that you wouldn't achieve because she clearly thought you could and you have? Yes well I don't know I think she just thought I would walk, I would talk I would achieve what my siblings have achieved I'll do what they've done in a different way because we all achieved differently but basically she thought I would do I would achieve and she wasn't going to lay down without a fight because everything she's done she's done, she's fought the part where she had to be exhausted and he's in almost 70 years Yeah and presumably it's meant that you've worked hard as well because these are not easy things to achieve are they I'm not particularly academically well qualified because of what happened at the theatre schools but very much I'm very knowledgeable very very knowledgeable I would say I know a little bit a lot but I'm not academically qualified so because of a disrupted school and because by the time you got to college age I'd had enough by that pookie, I wanted to work at my traditional television and fortunately my mentor at the time there was very very good you let me go in before the back door Well but you said you went for a day and you left 11.5 years later so I'm assuming that it you got unwell there but basically yeah I just did what I could do I was just new I was very quiet at first because my mum said you don't talk too much in the office you don't talk but I soon realised that MUT viewers a very sociable office to put it mildly very relaxed very very laid back to put it mildly and that's just the diplomatic way of putting it forward the line someone say it they always got the job though there was very much a creative industry I put it that way there was a clash of the creative industry against the corporate monster and unfortunately there's only going to be one person more environment that's going to be that and the corporate monster but when it was the creative industry there no they couldn't always put what they want to be the club media, the club channel but there was a creative creative environment where it was very different and the thing is people say oh people don't always realise that MUTs are not now but when I was there very different very different ethos from both sides MUT was very creative environment where MUT television was a very corporate environment where they never got the way we worked and we didn't like the way they worked we couldn't really get the way they were there was like a clash of cultures I would just say to put it mildly and there was only one that was going to win and it wasn't the creative industry that was going to win which is a shame although it sounds like you've got a bright you've got bright things ahead I said if it was bravo it's going to be I'm going to have to do my work but I've got a fair idea of these things the people there are pretty going to be pretty similar to last year they're looking at expanding over the time because they've received quite a lot of lossy money about a week before Covid properly struck them first lockdown they've got the last bit of tens of millions of lossy funding of public funding so it's just very bright there and I'm very fortunate to say that in this current climate what we're going to do with my job after third of the lens next week and the other scheme starts and so forth I don't always like to mention this I wish but my future in that respect is I'll be doing what I want to do to fund it now I didn't specifically jump into my life but I think that's great I would want to do the travel information that's happening to Manchester all the time now before Covid Manchester was very much a social environment we're going to gauge, meet new mates and once Covid is more manageable that's what I want it to remain where as of my work I want to work more locally to home which gives me more flexibility for my job working out of the gym Will you continue to write do you have plans for a further book? No I don't I've written three, I think I've made my contribution to literature but I did have an idea that I've put up and also a publisher just before last Christmas I wasn't bothered either way if I got accepted or not I wasn't bothered either way if I got accepted but I've moved on from that now but it's very much a part of my life that I'm extremely proud of I'm extremely proud of it it's simply a part of me that can never be taken away but it's very unlikely if you've googled me I hope you've googled me for your research that it's always a subpointer that's a brilliant thing and also as you say it's something that can't be taken away but also it's something that will influence how other people think and feel and being able to share your experience in that way is such a powerful thing to do I always like to finish with a closing thought so what thought would you like to leave people with when when I leave when I die at the end of the podcast when people are listening what thoughts just that through perceptions and we all achieve what we want to achieve and I just don't think that there's no one side that's all in life with anything and I get my own coaches to say there's more than one way to skin a cat and I always think that's a very pertinent term but I also think that I think that I just like to be I'm proud of the person I am I haven't always been happy with me probably about seven or eight years ago but now I'm very comfortable and I like myself which if you don't like yourself no one else is going to like you are they so and what is there any message that you think it would be helpful to give if a parent found themselves in a similar situation to your mum did all those years ago where they've just received a diagnosis and they're not sure what the future might hold there's a fight for everything every little ounce of support that you get so that's what you're just going to fight for everything nothing comes on a place and I don't think the best thing to do in life is to have a sense of humour but I've got quite a black sense of humour the British black sense of humour because at the end of the day if you don't laugh at something many years later you continue to moan and groan and oh and I badly don't and oh and always me you won't achieve in life you'd just be wallowing yourself all done mate we all will do that but there's a time where you've got to learn where you've got to hopefully get past that and learn to manage your emotions and learn to make steps to adjust to your surroundings and adjust to what you need to do


Alright, so hi everyone, I'm Ben. Today I'm going to be talking about modern tooling for taming HTML emails. So the idea of that is just to make email easier. And I'll just go into at the beginning of the presentation as to why email is a hard thing if you're not aware of creating HTML emails before. But firstly, can everyone hear me okay? Yeah. Yeah. Cool. Everyone on the back? Yeah. Alright, cool. So, hi. My name is Ben. I'm from Australia. I've been working in front-end web development since 2012. I've been living in Singapore for the past two years. And I'm currently working at the company Money Smart, which if you don't know, Money Smart, they do kind of like a blog, but they also have some kind of like credit card and mortgage comparison tools. And they've got a lot of interesting stuff coming in that space. So they're in Singapore, Indonesia, and Hong Kong. And I'll have a little bit more of Money Smart after this as well. So as front-end developers, which I'm just assuming that a lot of people here work in the front-end development space, or at least web. So there are times when you're often asked to tackle all sorts of problems. So when you're a front-end web developer, you're not just working in the browser, creating a WordPress site, and you work in Chrome, and that's it. There is a lot of complexity involved with being a front-end developer. And sometimes even the simple kinds of tasks can end up being a whole lot more complicated than you think that they might be. So after being working with HTML for a while, you think that you know everything that there is to know. There are times when somebody says, hey, can you make me an email template? And I'm like, yeah, sure, that sounds fine. But then when you actually get into that, some more requests come through. Can you make it responsive? It doesn't work in Lotus Notes. What's Lotus Notes? Okay, Outlook 2007, Outlook 2003, Outlook 2010, they're all different. So they're just little things, little gotchas that kind of come up when you're working with HTML and email. This is just a little example of some of those things which you might take for granted, but then you go in and you think, yep, I'll do this, but then you're looking like, wait, Yahoo app on Android? Do people use that? Well, it's on this list. Maybe they do, but it doesn't support the thing I need. What do I do? And there are all these kind of like little tricks and hacks and everything out there that will allow you to make email templates that work on a variety of different devices and email clients and on your mobile phone and on your Windows phone and all kinds of things that people use. But in order to learn and know all of that, that can sometimes get a little bit overwhelming and it's a lot to take in when you just thought that this would take about an hour and now you need to learn and figure out what Yahoo app on Android does. Another example is, this is just something I pulled off a theme forest page where I think it was like an email template, but they're just showing you here that that email template works in a variety of different browsers, different email clients. So because we can't read all of this, I squinted a lot and I found out just in this list, I've got the AOL, Gmail, iWork Express, Thunderbird, different versions of this, all your Outlooks, your web-based clients, your desktop clients, your desktop clients on Mac, desktop clients on Linux, but the same way that when you're building for a website, you need to test on Internet Explorer, Firefox, and Chrome, Safari if you want to as well. They are all different browsers where we go through and we test our code to make sure it works on all of those different platforms. When it comes to email, there is a heck of a lot more platforms out there and it's something as well that it's a little bit less understood than the browsers. So there might be things where you just think, yep, this design should work and it'll be fine, but it gets a lot more complicated as we just try to work through all of these different things and usually a client will just want to make sure that it works on everything. So as I was saying, if you want to satisfy all of these different things then your HTML code, it doesn't look very nice. So table layouts, sure, that's the only way. Inline styles, absolutely. Let's do it. 17 nested elements for a single word. Sometimes you just need to go there because it just won't work if you do not have all of this nesting and padding and other things going on. So I hope you like tables. But there is an alternative. So when we look at the kinds of tools that have been created in the last five years or so for front end web development, we are absolutely living in this really nice golden age where everything is becoming a lot easier and we can just be a lot more productive without really being bogged down and doing all of this just kind of stuff that you really don't want to do. So tonight I decided to introduce and go over this tool that I found called MJML, which stands for Mail Jet Markup Language. I'm not affiliated with them in any way, but it is just a, for a task that I needed to do at MoneySmart, it is something that I used and it just made my life a lot easier. So just a little background like Mail Jet, I mean MJML is built from React components. So that's how they've been able to create their own markup language. And the main idea really is to create responsive email templates and it just is, the point of it is to abstract away a lot of the complexity that comes with writing email that works in email clients. So that is the end of the slides and now I'm just going to do a presentation about just how you would set it up and just get it to work. So I'll try and do this one handed as I hold a microphone. We'll see how that goes. Okay, so first of all Mail Jet, I mean MJML website, so as you can see their main objective is just to make responsive emails easy. So responsive emails itself is something that is, has always been kind of difficult in email clients. It still is difficult because it's not supported everywhere, but they do their best to make it work in every scenario which it possibly can work. So some email clients do support media queries, but they're very modern and you definitely cannot trust that. But there are other kind of things you can do just with the way that you structure your tables and kind of certain parameters you put onto them to make them wrap in a way that makes a email template responsive. But that's just how it works under the hood and that's kind of some of the complexities which it takes away. So with any good new tool, the first thing you do is jump to the documentation to get an idea of how it works. Sorry, I just need a drink. So with MJML, the documentation, everything you need to get set up is here. The documentation is quite comprehensive. It goes through all the things which MJML can and cannot do and it also has a lot of good examples here and some real step-by-step stuff just to get started. Some of the main things that we'll be looking at tonight is just some of the body components and some of the stuff you can do in your head. So it just shows what MJML is like. So I'm just going to show you a little project that I set up using MJML. So it's just like a standard node project. We need MJML as a dependency but you can also install a, this will just enable you to do a bunch of MJML commands from the terminal and you can also install a MJML plugin. So I use Visual Studio Code. They've also got plugins for Sublime that I know of but I think they've got a couple of more. So I'm just going to go through the VS Code ones tonight. So you've got your brand new email that you want to set up. First step, we need to go and install MJML. So that is this package here, install that, reload page. There's also like an MJML syntax highlighter that I've already installed because I'll just show you the examples once. So as a first kind of set, this is like an email template that I've already made up and it just looks like, the thing that I like about, it just looks like normal HTML. There are tags, there's a few different things like why is there a font in the head like that. But from what you can see it's like, all right, I've got sections, I've got columns, I've got an image, I've got some text, I've got some more sections, a group, a column. It's all fairly like, it's stuff that you'd be used to seeing if you worked in HTML. The thing that I'll show you first is that with MJML, we've got 111 lines of code here. Sorry, I just can't reach the keyboard shortcut like this. So the first thing I want to show Okay, so the first thing that I want to show is if we export this HTML, so this is kind of like a compile step where just taking all the MJML and converting it out to actual HTML. So when we do that, MJML runs its thing and I get this new HTML file here. So when you look inside here, this contains all of the really nasty stuff that we don't want to write. And if I just go and do file this out to normal HTML formatting, you can see that it's gone up to 388 lines. So that just gives you an idea that this has increased before fold and that's just all the extra wrapping and stuff that it needs to do. Another example that we can do with this with the MJML tooling is when we have the MJML tooling, I'm just using the command palette in VS Code and that just opens up all of the different commands which I can run. So another one is from the MJML plugin that we just installed is the screenshot. So that will go and compile my email template at the width that I specified. So 650 is pretty standard for emails. It compiles it, screenshots it, and now I know that, oh, this code looks like this. Okay, that's pretty nifty. And you can see here, very money smart base. This is a project from work, but it's just sign up and you'll see the same thing. So that is a couple of examples of what the tooling can do. And lastly, I just want to show you the really nifty, powerful tool is the fact that we can have a live preview with everything that we're doing over here can show up over here. And just to show you very quickly that it's all live and stuff. So I delete that and that's that line. So you can pretty much be coding in here and then just see it instantly updating over here. So some of the nice features of this, I'll just show you one of the things. So one of the things with HTML email is that in order to get to work in a lot of clients, you need to inline a lot of the styles. So that is a lot of the stuff that you're seeing here. But we all know with inline styles, if you need to change something that's rather global, can make it really kind of not fun, not quite complicated, but a good way to learn regex. So if one of the features that mjmail allows you to do is you can create style sheets. So you just create a mj style block, tell it that you want these styles to be inline when the code gets compiled. So now for each time we use an h1 tab, all of these styles will get in inline on that tab. So I've just got like a few here, if we just go and delete some of those, we'll just see certain things change and that's what we've got here. So yeah, you can just see that this is kind of like one of the nice things that it does because it just allows you to work in a way that you'd be a little bit more used to. Other things that you can do is just setting up an mj attribute. So this will just go and inline this style on everything. So every time you have a tag, it will go and append this font family onto it because where email works, it just doesn't cascade in the way that you would normally like that it would. Some other things going on in here that I'll just try and quickly show is that if we wanted to create all of this, the main basic building blocks of mjml is just you've got your mj body, much like the html body, then you've got your sections for creating each of your distinct sections of the email. It's kind of like just doing rows if you're used to like a bootstrap style grid system. And then the columns are equal kind of spacing columns. So if you put two of them together, then you get things that sit together like I have down here. So if I take out one of these, then they just kind of adjust. But I think I've got them inside a group so we can have our, in this one I've got two groups going on. So then when these actually, when you're using a group, when they stack, then these two sections here will stack on top of each other with two per row. So then I can just go drag this in and see how that works there. So other things that I'd encourage you to do is if you're interested in this, something just jumping like the, once you've installed the plugin in BS code, that's pretty much your setup step done. And then from that you can get HTML out. So that is that the main thing they actually need to put this into a production site somewhere. And in here, I just, if you're wanting to get started with this, the main thing you start to look at is the way that you do the layouts. This is the totality of their components. So pretty much if you just go through and have a look at what each of these ones do, that should pretty much get you to a step where you're like, all right, I know how to use this now. My first email template that I made up was probably spent about an hour and a half from not knowing anything to getting all of this out and putting it into production and ready to go. So other things that they have up here is that they've got a few little starter layouts to try out. And this is, like for myself, the way that I find working best is just to start with something whole and then just break it apart and see how all it's all put together, everything like that. So a few other interesting bits in here. So just more examples and pretty much everything you need for all of that. And lastly, whenever you're doing HTML email, you still need to test it really, really well. So MJML will take away a lot of the complexity for you, but there are still some things that just might not work the way that you think of all email clients. So a good way to be able to test out your email once you've actually done it, there's this tool called Putsmail from Litmus. So Litmus also make another email testing suite where they will go and send your email to a bunch of different email clients and render it and they give you a screenshot back. That costs a lot of money, but this one is free and all it allows you to do is just send out your HTML where you know that it hasn't been broken or changed in any way. So you can just paste in your HTML here, enter in some email addresses.  So you need to send it to an Android phone, an iOS phone, Outlook, Yahoo, Gmail, Desktop, and then you're kind of covered maybe a few more. Just talk to some people who are also doing this or who are going to actually use this template and you should get an idea of what you need to test in. So I think that is pretty much everything. That is just, yeah, a little wrap up of MJML. If you do need to do an HTML email, it just makes your life a lot easier. So yeah, I've been Ben. Thank you. Speak. I don't even have chocolate in my house myself, so I'm pretty much happy. On, at least iOS is a five-size limit for iOS for managing renders or email. How hard is it to do that in practice? How hard is it to what say? Make sure your email fits inside of that. Not very hard. Just test it. Test it and test it across all the different things and just make sure that, like, I don't think that this tool can really help you with that. That's just one of those lessons that you need to learn. Also one of the things, so if you want to look at what are some of the limitations of different email clients. So if you want to get into this and you're setting out a large, like, catalog style thing, that's when you might end up hitting that limit. I don't think it's as small as 40KB, but yeah, it is something that I've definitely seen at people that haven't tested and then email just gets chopped off halfway through and it's like, oh well, I'm sure that last line didn't matter. And also just general writing principles, put all the good stuff up the top. Any other questions at all on this? Do you like implementing email at the back end? So implementing email on the back end. So if you're using something like, there's a lot of tools out there which are for sending out bulk, the email blasts and everything, but some of them don't really provide a very good way to actually make up the template. So just, oh no, don't do that stuff there. Okay, so over here, just where I had the HTML snippet that was generated here. One second. Okay, so this HTML that was generated out, this is what you would copy and paste and put into your thing that's actually going to send out the email blast. So in MGML, you just would have seen here, I'm just doing things like putting in the curly braces first name. So once it's actually in the thing that's actually sending out, doing the send out, that's where you can put all of these little tags to be replaced by your mail merge kind of stuff. So this HTML is set up to be copy, paste into campaign monitor into whatever else you use to send it out, but it needs to be something that supports HTML, like raw HTML going into, which I think most of them do if they're like a large-scale commercial email sending out thing. Any more questions? Have you used a combination of emails? No, I haven't. So yeah, I've just, I haven't had to do much email, but this was just something that I came across and made it really like easy for me to get something, get it done, get it out there. So there's also a foundation for email if anyone else wants to look at that and come and do a presentation. There's always an expert. Cool. All right. So that was everything there. All right, thank you very much everyone.


um the owl's second oh no no how is it possible oh exactly oh lovely knock though let's see if we can do better this time um he's getting a clone nice and early on to the feral maybe some pressure here let's find out we get the fearwood eventually we get all the buffs off and this is looking decent there's gonna be a double fear here though which is not ideal um and we're gonna get burned once out of it but we're gonna trade oh my god no we didn't fear into it luckily we were going to and we're gonna get a nice nice nice damage here though this is is a double fear let's go oh that's no way man let's how is it possible i mean we've proven that we can do it though you know yeah we do oh lord oh he gets it again it's it's an absolute deja vu he gets the feral ice as well with the knock and here we go starfall pops in here's the double fear it's actually a better start than last time oh my god it doesn't press it it doesn't press anything man oh maybe maybe this is the new calder maybe i've been completely wrong on let's check out his spec dude i feel like this just he's got nothing going from this are you gonna expect me why why does that matter what is what is going on there nah i mean i don't know what it means it means nothing to me i'm gonna be honest it's only got two points and friends in i thought you'd have three in that because that's like the i don't know that's like the pvp talent as far as i know um and that's what we have you for expert commentary yeah that's it man that's that's it but i mean you know he's don't play minkin not me so yeah i mean he's clearly figured it out because he's he's been sending people in the bin um at a respectable rating as well um we're in the game though bladesedge what does he face this oh wait wait wait wait wait this is a feral it's a feral it's a sny oh it's a it's a fan fixed out no yeah that's not bogged down dude wow okay okay okay oh yeah it's philx melt dogs my bad yeah yeah yeah oh get the proc ferris running away he's scared already apparently it's it's an interesting you see what's happened mate he knows man that's the thing everyone knows what what what this guy can do and they don't want any part of it whatsoever yeah you see me next time we cue into this yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah there we go nice drink it nice drink it into ps we've got a lot of a lot of coolers nice yeah yeah pretty much we have like survival instincts and circuits to go now that's about it um so we're looking decent we need to survive for a while around i don't know how much trend cool down is i would assume like three minutes so i think i think that's the win con um we will out of this fear and we're not going to fit into fear we're not noobs after all uh it's the fear we're going to come off with the next question it does eventually we get a full fear and can we get a clone off or something going here uh new bay is trying to maybe nope i have no idea what the fuck is causing his cousin clone onto the zerk which is a good choice and he decides to absolutely leg it to the other end of the arena um yeah we do want to set it up uh my this is what i set it up on in self is the question um i think sir yeah fiends still and we're not going to win the long game so yeah ps comes out tenants into the clone unfortunately but it's not too big a deal we dodged the fearably we're a sister i'm not sure just what if it was to dodge i think that was a bit boogie anyway we're trying to run around the pillar trying to get to the priest we mount up to make sure we do get it um and we do get it right about now but there is a proc which we do get off new bay in some trouble nice clone though making sure he doesn't go down but we're hurting a bit on the old manner we do have him and fiend available um and we're going to see what we do here divine him comes in there's the clone we get one proc off though and it should be enough to stabilise us for now we're going to get feared off with spamming fear ward nope not quite all that's the fucking oil hockey man i swear that oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh no not quite not quite um there's the innovate our survival instincts how long is it left i'm i'm not quite sure yeah it's a random one we get a fear here it's actually really good here's the fear survival instance is going to drop over there's the proc but it's a dr triple dr clone so if this drops now dangerously low can we get the shield grace comes off shield doesn't come off unfortunately um and the feral will be quite all right mana is precariously similar but here's the rats coming out can he face the right way nope he gets a bit juked on the wrath but he more are coming in rapidly here's some wrath here's a reclone onto something nope gets maimed on it into a clone mana is very similar once again and this could be anyone's game somehow at this point which is not something i thought i'd say seeing this comp um but new bay is making it work he has some mana to play with and he has a dream here is full clone onto the feral and he's running away maybe trying to get a small reset maybe trying to delay for his starfall maybe for his friends which we are not tracking um because who the fuck plays anyway um there's a trend there's a trend some stuff this could be it this could be it this could be he's got the wall stopping oh my god he's got it done the feral this is a wall on the crew oh my god this is a boring comp isn't it oh no oh it's a knock on the seduce actually i think my mistake but we take those um we're going for the pet it's what to see we'll send the pet wait yep there's a mook in the mook instead of a mook in dude what is going on man the old the old's going mad that was going mad what's going on okay p.s comes out bucks and comes out starfall comes out from everyone involved what the fuck full feral onto the boomkin full top by a penance and let's see when new bay he's probably not caught off guard because he is a moonkin connoisseur he knows exactly what to do here um full dots are rolling on the enemy boomie as he looks yeah he looks to lovely knock again on the seduce man it's on point um and we are trying to meet the boomkin once again um as he might be in some trouble here's we don't have much to go we trinket the death coil and we are trying to make sure he stays healthy we fear the wall okay and we should be quite alright um i don't know what that knock was but it was an interesting one oh it is the rocker into the knock into a moonfire could he just finish off the boomie and cement himself nope not quite there's a triple dots coming in though basically and we are trying to finish off the enemy boomkin not much mana to go around full seduce though do we have an interrupt no uh well i mean from a moonfire i guess i don't know i don't know what that's about um this is bad this is bad ladies and gentlemen there's a bark skin reclone trying to line it he did heal himself as well so he should be okay man that's not looking too great he's got bait though he has got bait um there is the bait and new bait is fine for now he's sitting down for a drink he doesn't have innovate so realizes he needs some more mana to close the game out and this is i i mean i didn't expect to commentate this kind of match this is the way this game was ever seen yeah oh that's bad it's really bad this is not good full fear comes in we have to will this one yeah but we're so line aside we're so yeah he did jump up gets a shield gets a penance at least one tick half seduce comes in into a clone we can't stop the clone run anubis has to run run bro he is running he is lining he is making sure he doesn't go down not like this we are in a great spot we get double dots in on the moonkin he doesn't have much mana actually and we could just run him down here potentially penance comes out offensively that's how you know you're having a good time barkson comes in very late just to do some dot damage um moonkin gets dispelled yeah starfall but it's i don't know it's we're cleaning the pet which is not bad the pet might just die there's no feldom um so this is really good warlock's also dying he's on one of them rat comes in that's good that's nice what's going on there that is the weirdest matchup i've ever seen i feel like he's normally feral we can't tell whenever i've seen him on ladder he's been feral but the problems we can't tell right like yeah i don't think we can i don't think we can but i mean he's got full furious worm height right it's definitely yeah it's definitely booming man on this character i mean there's no way he has full feral gear and full moonkin gear at this point no no no okay well regardless we've got some entertaining games no matter what yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah we've got some entertaining games here is a fixed male nurse again ready to get his revenge can newbay put him in the bin once again here's the starfall here is a clone made him into clone he drinks out of his swiftly knocks the second clone he has no time for diddly deadling and forces the ps lovely stuff so good star here with a lot of cooldowns expended on the side of the priest feral uh priests in the middle might eat some burns for his troubles eats quite a few ones actually um and a nice a nice actual clone as well onto the feral uh we eat one burn but we we do it to make sure we go good positioning as position ourselves between the priest and the feral to threaten the fear potentially um we are going to get bashed up here shortly um but maybe a burn won't come out one burn comes out not biggest of deals mana is still looking quite healthy and we are trying to probably to delay for the next starfall which should be the name of the game here comes in we will out of it quickly dispel the fear ward and trade face zerk has been popped by me feral um and we are in bit of a trinket clean the trinket oh oh and he's like oh my gosh no man there's silence there it was like oh yeah man i guess i agree and here we go i feel like this is the true test yeah if they can win this then it's yeah if you can if you can somehow beat this then you're going to be doing absolutely fine sending straight up mate we we're sending warrior uh i'm not sure what we're sending but we're sending something everyone's getting sent um last and last and okay oh it's one of them revenge back the revenge last done spec well the tree and song are going to be doing me any favors either no they will not they will not but they're going to time out shortly and the paladin is going to that stands for the holy show oh yep yep yep yep yep yep yep but holy shock will surely top him there we go um good spell but a nice clone actually for some pressure here um would have liked to see a later fear here actually but he's lining up the starfire uh yeah a little bit too early but he's still got the bubble still got the bubble though which is all that matters um and we're somehow not dead yet which is also really good news um blaze don't comes in here with your responses and prayer remendings having a good time p.s was traded obviously for it as well and the pressure is starting to be reversed here what oh ua comes in and this could be oh no oh no we fear as well into the clone but there's the wall yep wall gets popped we just have to somehow live just so much of it yeah it's not bad some heels coming in as well it's not bad for clone i'll put it onto the shadow fiend but it's not the worst thing in the world it's not the worst thing in the world at all um we are still in the game and that's all that matters we are sitting this and we are probably going for a fair in about two seconds let's hope we can get to the paladin at that point and create some pressure here's the reckless yeah and there's the fair and now we need some counter pressure no entangling roots we're just trying to peel we're trying to heal regrowth comes in as well yeah there's good roots actually what are you a comes in the fucking bots man yeah it's unfortunate it's the full clone maybe the warrior it's a bit scared i mean he's kind of running um yeah it's not bad news maybe we can guess something onto the warrior here um the warrior is going a bit low but there's a holy shock once again to top him off i think it comes in uh we are into a full hammer though we elect to sit this one as we don't have dr currently that's the clone onto the warrior very low yeah maybe reclone the trinket yep it's lovely stuff actually unfortunate but we might still have something going here nope is the blade storm and this might have the kind of pressure there yeah it's dead nope has to cancel fear in one second into a clone surely and the warrior she should have nothing left here we get one dot we get offensive penis there's a starfall and he just he just goes down how does it do it how does he do it there's no mana left there's no cooldowns left the last go oh he sends him home sends him home man jesus i'm gonna take it away i'm way too sober give me like half give me like an hour and a half he's on the skulls still though this is on the skull very good very good very good okay anyway uh we're into a disk mage ryan has extensive um feed with this comp with river so he should know exactly what not to do we've got a nice some nice spells coming in here onto the enemy mage making sure he's nice and clean for any potential shields and things can we stop this poly though nope we're gonna get burned once burn twice can we get out we do get out eventually repoly comes in um and we are getting laggy as fuck over here but it's fine we're back um as we do manage to get out into a decent position we're gonna get burnt again though oh i don't know what happened to the fear there because the discord is lagging absolutely oh i'm sorry i did can't do more no i don't know i don't know i'm trying my best um but we are trying to get some dispels in we are trying to get any cc and the priest is just pressing mana burn which is bad news for both hydra and nube both nice route there to force the fear get the will out of the way um which is something we want to do we're gonna get fed here though for sure do we want to trade a will for it we do not yeah nice we're drinking the poly making sure we don't get into a bad position here cs gets expended onto nube and we should be quite all right now he's getting burnt though he has to shift into bear but of course the shifts also cost i think a fair bit of manners moonkin because i guess you don't have the shape shifted talent whatever it is uh you don't have one of them but yeah you have got you've got one but not the other so yeah it's expensive but not sweet thank you very much apparently that's that's why i'm here mate that's why you're here druid yeah it's pretty expensive but not that expensive yeah yeah he's that's what's paid the big bucks to you know what i mean i know i'm also a druid i think without saying it yeah i know mate if poly will fall into a fear uh into a burn into a deep this is bad news every bad news poly into another burn into another poly into another burn and we are just slowly we're surely running dry but we still have some minutes to play with we have shadow fiend as far from over um nube is pop starfall they're trying to line it the best they can double fear into a knock trying to get them into a more precarious position here so to speak we're gonna eat another burn because we resist i think the spell on nova or maybe we dispelled trash buffs regardless it's not too great we're light of this one and we try to keep on the offensive we don't have much mana to play with but we are trying we do have a fiend but fiend is a bit awkward to say the least is uh deep into poly no stops unfortunately and surely we are going to get burned at this unless there's a clone in the near future one burn into fear and entangling roots comes in trinket on the fear late actually and fiend comes in as well as a human hope as we are trying to get some manner back here i think that's pretty good use of fiend um fear on the fiend now though um we would get some manner and we are trying our best to keep that advantage if all possible trying to get some burns on the counter but it may be on some pressure here might have to expend a block if he's not careful there's the block um we get it off with one master spell try to get the shields as well not quite going to be enough we get a nice burn time on the clone there and mana while not great it's not terrible and we could sit down for a drink here nice clone on to the mage making sure nube doesn't take any unnecessary pump here still has a shield for a little bit of hp there um and he should be quite a right for a bit we are sitting down for a full drink evocation gets traded but when it comes to mana we are looking actually very fine and under we fear the shadow fiend as well nube kiting it out nicely and the priest has to spend him as well so no matter why it's we're actually ahead now um which is really really really good news because that's what we need to win on this is not going to be a kill pressure comp I do not believe what's the fear it's a bit sauce it's a bit sauce um but the deep comes in on to nube in bare form he should be quite right at least it's not going to get burnt uh full poly lands do we drink it out of it nope nube feels like he's fine pops the frenzied regeneration I don't know how much that heals for as the spec probably not a great deal but he seems okay for now um ps comes in drink a ps we're a bit scared um but nube lands a nice clone onto the mage and runs the fuck away um now we're going to get cs shortly into a poly here half poly or last triple dr poly rather and we pop a fair ward try not to get feared and we get the actual enemy fair ward off instantly so this is actually good news we have a fair fair ward advantage and we are quite fine unless we get feared out of a cc so we're trying to land one before he gets that off which he hasn't yet nube is looking to get for a drink somehow but it's going to be hard against the mage uh mage is looking okay on mana but has no evocation it's a restart gets a restart yeah nice fair there and here should be some burnt city oh my god that's what we call cursed life that's that's cursed life ladies and gentlemen the one pixel line of sight run um and this is bad news this is this is this is not great this is not great we will out of this um and we should be okay but this is still we're a bit of pressure we get poly morphed and we should be okay oof the break though into double fear and here's the mana burns on the mage i'm just gonna run away now yeah i don't know how much mana nube is actually on because we can't really see her right now um but it should be quite all right i feel like it's been out of the game for a little bit yeah it's quite all right it's like 70 percent maybe 60 um a mage is drinking a little bit but is deciding to come back he's like not today gets a deep in into polymorph surely into burn fear or something along the lines they've probably adapted the strategy from river and hydro we've seen this burn spam into poly spam many a time and it is as obnoxious as it is unskilled however we are going no flame uh we get a full clone here into full yeah i think we're gonna press star full soon he's just lining up the perfect opportunity doesn't want to waste that i believe it costs some mana so he doesn't want to that in the bin um he's kind of just running around now though has innovate available he's playing a very cautious priestess kind of boom wants to make sure he doesn't drink here's the trends i'm not sure how much to do against the frost mage i think they're just gonna wobble around and look menacing um which is basically what the whole class does like we went through earlier drink it is available we are like not to use it quite yet here is the double fear i do believe that it's drinking it out of my nube who absolutely sends the mage to pound town um for a little bit at least uh gets topped quite easily by penance but there's not much mana to go around here's the full fear and i do believe it should be blocked it is indeed we'd burn off the last mana on the priest surely yep there we go one dot comes in as well for good measure here's a full poly we do have drink it but it is a half poly actually so we elect not to drink it out of it quite wisely i do believe um and we are trying to do our best to chase the priest down so he cannot drink uh we do get into a cs three triple dr poly into fear we're gonna eat one burn two burns not too big of a deal we trade one burn back it's no real mana on anyone here so it could be anyone's game um which is which is part bait so we're uh we're doing all right on the we could go right i mean hydro is a bit vulnerable for sure um but we should be quite all right as long as the priest doesn't lend another burn we're trying to burn force the cs onto shadow which means we're completely fine for healing can penance in peace uh ps is forced by the starfall and new bay is trying its best to create some pressure here making sure that we do a good job uh fearwood comes in this pelton the first try again absolutely blessed on fearwood's this game um which is a nice change of pace and surely the mage just dies here the shield the shield actually just got damaged through may yeah pumped it damage you may and here we go is the feral disc he's he is a seasoned veteran into this company that's exactly what to do when to do it and how to do it there's the full clone coming on to the priest to start it off we're trying to get some dispel say wrath comes in the feral is running for its life already he wants none of it unfortunately we don't get the proc i don't know what happened with it did he drink at the clone i have no idea to be honest um but regardless we are gonna continue here onto the priest obviously want to try to get the fear ward off so we can get some cc chains going and nukes the feral as has been the name of the game before not as blessed this time with that you did not get bored you're definitely drinking on that one still mate yeah i don't know but okay okay okay okay get me against the pump there's the pump is the pump is the ps i don't think it's going to be enough um we're trying to mc here actually oh it's a nice clone though forces of drinking and survival so there's no cooldowns left on the priest feral and we've seen this before they've completely panicked um on the unexpected pump from new bay here a nice hibernate whoop hit him with some nature what hibernate into clone by the way and absolutely pumps him forces shadow meld as well and when i say no cooldowns i mean no cooldowns there's nothing left and this could be a good go unfortunately there's no clone dr's on the priest so we can't clone him out of this um the wish is still pump yeah it's a lot of good pump still regrowth comes in a nice clone a bit late but it was the earliest we could i believe so it is what it is um we pop shadow fiend there as well for that go go a lot of value out of it as well we're doing quite fine sitting out for a drink now trading out okay interesting that's a lot of skulls i think she's trying to catch up it's trying to compensate i'm gonna work man i gotta catch him it's trying to compensate um if you drink him game you drink aral it's fact fact true true true true true that is a rule that is a rule um and we are nuking the feral though and he might just eat shit here he's got nothing left and he does it's beautiful yep so we've got to be distracted by the skulls we've got to be distracted wait we can't do we can't have them like what the fuck smashing every priest for all it um i'm back from my brief afk spell on the sideline straight into a boomkin disk not sure about that mate you've missed some bait boogie comp but we are on eight wins and i have no idea how that's happened here on to the boomkin blind on to wrang shrink is out of the blind instantly and the starfall does come down silent to land afterwards with a priest oh my god oh that's so sad ah they're from earth shaker that's why never mind oh you got to drink out oh my god um oh my wait is this is going to be more the same like this new bear seems to be a secret fucking matter a contestant yep yep yep yep yep yep yep yep yeah secret matter with the boomkin and look at the priest look at the priest ah hey none of these frees like pressing disperse as well no doesn't need it mate you don't need to press disperse when there's no imminent danger yeah that's true expert priest commentary coming in from screw brand a case called master x game uh i don't know if we have a trinket for this blind i don't know what we're trinketed but this is bad news uh i don't know the priest decided to absolutely fuck off here though um which is an interesting interesting choice uh he's well concerned about survival winning yeah i mean we we have this game this game it's got to be game we have shifter nah it's game it's game silence into nope is it his arm into kidney oh for fuck sake oh the clone but it's not great because we're fed into it there's no matter though it's the silence where the fuck is the dance there's the dot i see 27 seconds on star four and i believe that's all that nuba needs can you survive 23 seconds ryan don't know mate don't think so yeah yeah yeah yeah we're fine it's so fine the road is dead it's dead oh my i just fucking angelina jolly dependence i was like nuba gets the first count it gets the dirt it's his first win the first one


Everybody forced here ripping the immaculate mosaic of choice plates eight box NFL makes your number five random teams We'll random right now, and then we'll get right to the break Good luck everybody. Thank you very much for joining two and six Eight times here one two three four five six seven and eight Zach H down to Nicholas M eight times on the teams one two three four five six seven and eight Jaguars down to Colts Zach H Jags brand of W Raiders Mark L with the Cardinals Michael J. Saints Gregory M. Bears Jeffrey S. Buck Scott F. Texans Andrew P. Panthers Abdo with the Broncos Brandon W. Lyons Evan S. Steelers Rory C commanders Tom be with the Giants Corey G. Dolphins Barton L Jets Andrew P. Falcons drew our Niners Eric M. Vikings Yahweh T. Titans Richard H. Seahawks drew our Chargers Jabari with the Ravens Alexander has the bills Gregory M. Patriots John H. Bengals Chris A. Cowboys Martin G. Browns William D. Rams drew our Eagles Gregory M. Packers Bradley P. Chiefs and Nicholas M. with the Colts The results link is in chat. You can find the results anytime at latensportscards.com Let's go ahead and get started Start with the mosaic hobby. Just make sure I got the right boxes here. That's one hobby for choice two plates and an iMac Joey B. Joey Bart Goes along with chat haven't seen Joey Barton a while though Be sure to like the stream everybody Awesome everybody watching like the stream debut Henton Hooker for the Lions Red mosaic Jim Kelly bills silver Quentin Johnson Chargers debut Silver Audible is Algier Mosaic for the Vikings J Ward rookie orange mosaic dolphins Jalen Ramsey to 199 Roll the die for the carbon copies one two three left four five six right Four they'll go right side if there's a number one I'll random instead carbon copies go right put Frank's red hot on a hot dog But I just see that in that commercial Give that a shot Martin Brunel auto to 99 for the Jaguars Go Jags Brunel auto Red Kenny Pickett Steelers silver rookie Tucker Kraft for the Packers Addison's great. There's some pretty good rookie receivers. Josh Downs is good There's Addison Who I'm missing I'm missing a lot tired brain right now Was ake is Adams for the Raiders Chase for the Bengals morning Greg calf remontage mosaic for the Niners Stroud base for the Texans purple Quinnie Williams Jets number 249 silver paint manning Colts Leviss introductions in there Greg's definitely still out No, Greg. That's probably going tomorrow. It's still at 28 man Was ake is Dorian Williams rookie for the bills We just recently filled up the other the last of the other breaks Red Camara Saints silver is swaggers the fondig's bills Addison debut Vikings Orange Jim Kelly bills number to 199 silver Quinn Williams Jets introductions purple will Leviss nice card Tennessee 16 of 49 rookie introductions Numbered Leviss out of mosaic. Definitely good to get right now. We just need someone to come in and buy 28 spots, Greg And we're good to go Derek Hall Seahawks for Kyoto out of 99 trash list You know what date is great got mosaic for the Packers Aaron Jones Red Rookie Darnell Washington for the Steelers Come on Greg. It's now it's now Tuesday morning. It's early early early Tuesday morning now Who did trash list Late Sunday night in our early Monday morning mosaic olave for the Saints No, Greg Red Sox are still Beat the crap out of whoever they're playing silver to it for the Dolphins. This guy's lost it Greg who who was playing in the World Series last time you watched it? Did it happen to be like the? No, like the the blue jays You think it's 1994 mosaic Nick Bosa for the Niners Blue mosaic rookie is Charlie Jones Bengals out of 99 and Splash mosaic for the Dolphins of Tyree kill. Okay, let's do the choice boxes now Come on Nebula Does anyone have the Stroud Nebula as we're pulled? Potters in the World Series what Yankees be Padres of like 98 or 99 or something like that Right silver tune rookie for the Cardinals the Brooklyn Dodgers Mosaic Damian Pierce Texans This is the New York Giants Got a Mike quick autograph for the Eagles Thanks, John. That is a Dude Steve young black gold four of eight San Fran If we could feel it's I mean it's 12 30 on on a Tuesday and there's 28 spots to go we're gonna need we're gonna need a lot guys just being just being totally honest We need a lot to happen to fill that tonight You go nice Steve young in the black and gold. That's a cool one Number 80 rookie Colby Wooden for the Packers on the red and yellow and a peacock LT chargers. That's a cool one nice card chargers Got red and green rookies here at Parris Johnson Junior Cardinals and Darius Davis for the Chargers He returned the kick tonight right Darius Davis Leave that was him return the punt. I was big for them early that changed the game. I feel like pretty quick Getting up on a defensive team like the Jets is big especially in that way Takes to all the pressure off your offense. I think a little bit. They probably would have won Silver Suggs Cardinals mosaic Thomas for the Saints Trey Tucker nice to 25 black and green rookie Otto for Vegas or Vegas Yeah, guys of that that flaw is probably gonna go tomorrow By probably I mean very very likely Trenton Simpson rookie Otto for the Ravens They sure did John they played did declare 60 minutes of defense. Yeah, Sam and Drippie tomorrow Ravens there. All right, red and yellow Montana Niners Number 280 Paul Kraus Vikings out of 80 and CD lamb Cowboys out of 80. He's been killing it recently He's a little under the radar as far as like one of the better receivers in the league this season he's not too far off of like Hill and AJ Brown, he's not too far behind those guys Red and green package rookie Tucker Kraft and Niners rookie Jake Moody. It was Darius Davis. Okay. I knew it was a Davis Silver debut for the Falcons Is a Bijan Robinson and there's a mosaic Aaron Rodgers Jets national pride Desmond Ritter auto yellow and red for the Falcons here Warren sap red and yellow to 80 for the Bucks Devontae Adams Raiders to 80 and a peacock rookie Tyree Wilson Raiders. That's pretty cool Red and greens of home McDonald the fourth Jets and Mingo for the Panthers You see that I see you lamb. I don't even it's going on. It's going right over my head and John So yeah, my brain just knows work right now Working self-defense from the Sandhill cranes. It's all I can do right now All right, silver is Echler Chargers mosaic Lazard Jets the Raheem rocket ish mail auto for Carolina Rocket ish mail Pretty solid in the NFL, but really good in college. He was alright in the NFL Play for a few teams though ready now to 80 Andre Johnson Texans rookie Jack Campbell Lyons to 80 TJ Watt to 80 for the Steelers red and green Kelly Ringo Eagles rookie and Charlie Jones Bangles rookie I feel like you did All right two plates That's kind of bad. I need sleep sleep number I just need to save up like 10 grand that I can get one.  That's another 200 bucks All right, here we go two plates Ron gonna sign for tops say what now Timmy excuse me Yeah, where's that coming from? I want to know I Don't want to get my hopes up. Yeah I Got a Vaughn Miller face there one of one a Geno Smith Congrats Seahawks will mix her magic right there for you Richard H with Seattle. I Think that's graffiti one of one. I'm not sure what that is actually called Big congrats Seattle that's sick Awesome Geno. Oh, that's really nice to Jameer Gibbs Lions rookie auto only to 25 on this one I kind of figured after brawny was I kind of figured it would happen. I just didn't know all the logistics of it It's gonna be a lot of money a lot of money for that guy What if they'll ever get Jordan? I think there's a real possibility, right? I mean very real possibility. I just That's hard to like imagine. It's hard to imagine Dude just get LeBron and Jordan Back their own cards a dual autos would be just I don't even it'd be so cool Dude, would you imagine like a triple Steph Curry LeBron James and like Michael short? Because that's actually never happened that's actually never happened I'm pretty sure Said maybe some early upper deck I don't know if they put him on the cards with them though at that point because he was not a big-time rookie The 300 rookie auto Tyler Scott bears bears and dual patch. That's wrong Dual patch rookie Cedric Tillman Browns the 50. Yeah, LeBron and brawny do a big two Aaron Donald base That's bake bake the 35 for the bucks Preheat up in the 350 bake for 40 or 45 minutes Quentin Johnson rookie auto to 75 Q J for the Chargers Jake Hainer St. Swirky auto out of 50 jaker Hainer and swag champ out of five patch car the Mar Jackson Ravens three of five patch card That's Lamar swag champ He's got swag when he wears those sunglasses Albert J. I'll be J. Brawny Wade MJ. Whoo. That's another way to wait There's a lot there's a lot honestly you can do with You got all them You know you're so you know you're somewhere when you're on a major interstate haven't seen a corner 30 minutes. Oh Geez Shane. Where are you at?  Where are you at? I'm at collegiate last box of the break. Oh Careful that it's a 99 is Dak Prescott for Dallas Yeah, honestly Hobbs, yeah Jersey car or gloves card to 52 is do we pour a junior Steelers? I Got nothing to flex John scratch my arm Auto to 10 as Mike will for the Chargers. Yeah, I hope he does to me. That'd be awesome Think I think basically everybody hopes that he does. I don't know if there's a person that would hope against that I don't know that that person exists Whatever gets us to license LeBron James Yeah, get us there and Anybody who who hasn't in that as like good player we need us there or key auto to 99 is Darnell Washington for the Darnell Washington is a stealer stealer That means it'd be like fanatics or Billy and stuff, too They do upper deck memorabilia, but they don't release as much of it and Steelers on the Washington Legatron auto out of 75 for the Ravens Justin Tucker go Justin Tucker Ravens auto here And there we go. There we go Money Man's L auto 98 of 99 for the Cleveland Browns Browns with the money congrats on that one. Never bad time to get a Johnny auto. Here's Johnny. That was a pretty solid mixer Okay, numbered cards and mosaic Jim Kelly Jalen Ramsey Charlie Jones a Colby Wooden CD lamb Devonte Adams TJ Watt Andre Johnson Jack Campbell Paul Crouse Joe Montana Quinn and Williams Leviss Young number to eight black and gold four of eight Steve young on that one Peacock short prints of the Danian Tomlinson and Tyree Wilson Love Joey Porter, Jr. Patch card to five Lamar Jackson Cedric Tillman Autos of Quentin Johnston Tyler Scott Jameer Gibbs the 25 nice one for the Lions Rocket Ishmael Desmond Ritter Trenton Simpson to 25 trade Tucker Mike quick Derek Hall Mark Brunel Money Man's L The Browns Tucker for the Ravens Darnell Washington for the Steelers Mike will for the Chargers to 10 Jake Hayner Steelers and a one-of-one is gonna be Geno Smith for the Seahawks Here goes Seattle. Thanks again everybody moving on now to another football break