And if you perhaps give us a steer when we're ready to roll, Sunil. All right, shall we just wait for people to come for about a minute or so and then we can. Yes, if you if you tell us go we go so I wait for you. Don't don't just to let you know that I have got slides. Okay, anyone with slides you have the ability to share your screen so please feel free to do so when it's your turn. If that works for everyone. Anyone else have anyone else have slides. Okay. All right, we'll start whenever. Are we ready. Yes. Okay. Okay, good afternoon everybody. It's my great pleasure to welcome everyone to this symposium on Africa's blue economy, which seeks to explore how regional cooperation of Africa's coastal and marine resources can be mobilized for a sustainable future. This symposium is proudly jointly hosted by the so as economics department, the so as center for global finance, the blue economy research Institute of the University of the sations, and the Royal African society. My name is Elizabeth Weinberg, and I am the co head of the economics department as the so as economics department we are particularly proud to be co hosting this event. It brings together more researchers and scholars who are working on Asia and Africa than anywhere else in the world. And so, so as economics department itself has a keen interest in real world issues, including specifically with regard to the African continent. We like to think of ourselves as the department of economics that offers an economics off and for the future. And in that context, the African continent sit center stage. And second, I will hold hand over to the heads of the cool hosting institutions. Dr. Nick, Nick Westcott, the director of the Royal African society, Dr. Silvana and that the director of the blue economy research Institute at the University of the sations, and Professor Victor more in the director of the global, the center for global finance equally as so as they will in time welcome you. But before I do so, I would like to extend special thanks to our stellar panelists with us here today, as well as to Dr. Joanna Newman, who has kindly agreed to open the formal session of the symposium. Dr. Joanna Newman is the chief executive and secretary general of the Association of Commonwealth universities, which itself has more than 500 member universities in over 50 countries. She is the first female secretary general of the ACU and directs the administration of the UK government's three main international scholarships programs these are the chivaling Commonwealth and Marshall scholarships. She also directs the multilateral Queen Elizabeth Commonwealth scholarship. Before joining the ACU in 2017 Joanna was vice principal international at King's College London, where she was very instrumental in forging new international research and teaching collaborations. Joanna serves on numerous boards, including the United Nations Sustainable Development Solutions Networks Leadership Council, the high level advisory group for Mission 4.7 and acts as a lame member of the Council of Cardiff University. She's at the same time a senior research fellow in history at King's College London and in 2014 Joanna was awarded an MBE in recognition of her work in promoting British higher education internationally it's a great honor Joanna for having you with us today. Before I hand over to our co host. I just want to let you know how we will be proceeding. So our co host will extend their welcome to you. Then Joanna will give general introductory remarks to the symposium, at which point I will introduce our moderator and the person who has been the driving force behind the symposium, Donald Sparks before I, we get on with the panel contributions themselves. So, Nick Westcott, please do take the zoom floor. Thank you very much Alisa and warm welcome to everybody. The Royal African Society is honored to be associated with this symposium. The purpose of the society is to amplify African voices. This is a very neglected area where it is very important that research policy and opinion from the African countries themselves is badly needed, and the volume that's been edited by Donald Sparks is an excellent survey of the whole thing. And I'm sure we'll be hearing more about it later on. The positions are vital resource critical to its future, and African countries and their governments need to be in a position where they're able to manage to maintain to utilize and to protect their marine resources. And I would swim the coral that grows the minerals and oil and gas that lie beneath my own experience over the past 2030 years is that many African countries are not yet in a position to do this fully, and that results in these resources being either exploited by those countries themselves, or over exploited by third parties, often with impunity. And that's why it's very urgent that this issue is addressed for all the African countries concerned, and actually for the planet as a whole, as this is a common resource. This is only one of many events that the Royal African Society promotes. I won't go into any details, but I do encourage people to have a look at our website to see the full range of African issues that we discuss. Even better, I recommend that you join as a member so that you can get advance warning of all future events that we're holding discounts on books, including I think this book that we're discussing today, many other benefits, but I will leave it there and look forward very much to this discussion on such an important issue. Thank you. Thank you. So can I please invite Silvana. Panelists, distinguished participants. I'm glad to be here and I wish to thank SOAS University of London, and the Royal African Society London for giving the Blue Economy Research Institute Berry University of Seychelles the opportunity to co-host this important symposium. It aims to create an active academic research and knowledge network that supports an informed, fair and sustainable economy. And part of doing that is through collaborating with local, regional and international organizations to ensure synergies in actions, especially at local but also regional and global level for the benefit of all. As we support the Blue Economy vision of sustainable development through innovation and knowledge based approach, we are energized by and focused on the fact that we can contribute to the sustainable development of Africa through the Blue Economy, and that collaboration doesn't maximize the use of resources. However, we do appreciate that there is obviously still a lot of work to be done, and we are eager to share knowledge, develop ideas and continue this sustainable journey with our counterparts across the continent. We are looking forward to the panel experts presentations and the discussions that follow for a better understanding of the challenges and opportunities for the African Blue Economy, and focus on improved collaboration which will help us be more efficient in reaching the SDGs. We continue of course to need strong public and private institutions, civil societies and individuals working together towards the sustainable development of Africa, and we expect that through good planning shared visions lead to innovation for all sectors, change mindsets, shared knowledge and developing capacity of all actors within the Blue Economy. So thanks to all attending today, and we look forward to you engaging with the panelists and on behalf of Berry University of Seychelles. I hope we all take away valuable lessons from this symposium, and I wish everyone a very fruitful discussion. Thank you. Thank you very much, Silvana. And Professor Victor Murinde, can you please welcome on behalf of the Center for Global Finance. Thank you very much Elisa and thank you very much. Thank you for starting of this event. My name is Victor Murinde and I'm the AXA Professor in Global Finance, and also the Director of the Center for Global Finance. On behalf of the Center for Global Finance at SOAS University of London. It's a great pleasure to welcome you all to this important event on the Blue Economy in Africa. And indeed when the team and the collaborators here started working with this event, it was super exciting to see the Center for Global Finance being involved. Because within the Center for Global Finance, we are interested in tracking the mega trends that change the behavior of financial institutions and agents throughout the world and which shape developments in the way financial systems work. As we know in the context of flow of funds, whatever happens in global economies, eventually ends up influencing or finding their way into the interaction between the real economy and the financial economy. And it is where here that the blue economy in Africa has great implications for the financial systems within the region. In the Center for Global Finance, we have a number of projects, including the measuring and tracking developments in mega trends, being able to monitor and they have already done through time. Also, looking at issues like inclusive finance and also developments in financial technologies. We believe that the focus on a blue economy of Africa will change perspective in terms of how economies can at the regional level sustain themselves and participate in empowering individuals and the citizens in activities of the blue economy, including fisheries, coastal prevention, sustainability, and this link eventually have a way of getting back into the way financial systems work. And also importantly about how they both the government sector and the private sector, a work in tandem, and the policies that need to be in place to ensure that the blue economy is an area for empowering a sustainable economic development in the region. In the context that we will come you here and we hope that this liberation will give us new insights of a research that will extend into many areas, you know, economics, finance and development. But also, we'll empower the other stakeholders whom we often forget like civil society and the private sector. Thank you very much. Thank you very much, Victor, and for reminding us of the core role of the connections between the blue economy and the financial systems across countries and in particular for the region. So, so with that, could I please invite Joanna to formally open our discussions today. Thank you so much Elisa and it's an absolute pleasure to open this symposium, and I'm pleased to see so many registrants from around the world on the participants list and unfortunately we can't all be together in person but the digital world does actually help us engage globally. I'd like to thank the co-hosts, so as University of London, the Royal African Society and the University of St. Shells for their support. And I'd also like to thank our distinguished panelists for joining us today. UN Secretary General Antonio Gutierrez said the 21 intergovernmental panel on climate change report was a code read for for humanity. The alarm bells are deafening and the evidence is irrefutable, and it's clear to all that the planet is in the crime climate crisis, but what is less well known is that it is also an ocean crisis. In particular, Africa faces devastating consequences if it does not implement sustainable blue economic policies very soon. When we see clear cutting of forests or strip mining of large areas, most of us want to call to action. Many of us feel that these activities are not sustainable and support policies and activities to restrict them. Unfortunately, equally disturbing practices take place in the deep seas and most of us are not even aware of them. For example, more than half of all key marine biodiversity areas are not protected. In addition, dead zones areas that lack enough oxygen to support marine life are rising at an alarming rate from 400 in 2008 to some 700 in 2019 and less than 2% of national research budgets are allocated for marine science. We are losing precious mangrove areas which are vital for marine nurseries. The cold Benguela current that flows along the southwest African coast from South Africa to Angola provides essential nutrients for fish production in these countries. Should that current warm up due to climate change, the fishing industry in South Africa and Namibia and Angola will be in jeopardy. Illegal, unreported and unregulated fishing is all too common and most countries in Africa find it hard to enforce their maritime laws. Until recently the world's coastal and marine areas have been thought of as limitless resources and places to store our waste. The results have ranged from degraded coastal habitats, marine pollution, negative impacts from manmade climate change and overfishing. In the UN Food and Agricultural Organization some 57% of the world's fish stocks are fully exploited and another 30% are over exploited. This is important as marine fisheries generally contribute some 270 billion US dollars annually to the world economy. Clearly, our current uses of the blue economy are not sustainable. Throughout the 17 UN Sustainable Development Goals, goal number 14 life below water is the least funded. Only 0.01% of official development assistance is directed towards SDGs that is directed towards SDGs goes towards that goal. And private investment and funding from philanthropic organizations comes in at just over half of 1% of SDG funding from these sources, grossly inadequate to meet Africa's blue economy needs. It is vital that the international community face up to the code red challenges of Africa's blue economy to scale up the flow of finance towards this challenge and the roll out of innovative finding, financing mechanisms as such blue bonds were appropriate. The blue economy movement was strengthened by the African Union's adoption of the 2050 Africa Integrated Maritime Strategy in 2012. And it's being taken forward through the AU's Africa Blue Economy Strategy adopted in 2020. Indeed, the African Union has correctly called the blue economy, the new frontier of the African Renaissance. This is key as 38 nations in Africa have coasts, 12 of which are members of our Commonwealth. Maritime zones under African jurisdiction total over 10 million square kilometres with vast potential for offshore and deep sea mineral exploitation. And some 90% of the region's trade is conducted by sea. Clearly coastal and marine resources will play essential roles as a source for food, energy and economic development for the foreseeable future. In 2018, our Chogomar Commonwealth heads of government meeting agreed that the Commonwealth blue charter, which brings countries together to find solutions to the biggest ocean challenges. 16 countries have stepped forward to lead action groups across 10 areas of sustainable ocean development and conservation with 46 countries having joined one or more of these action groups. Kenya led the blue charter action group on a sustainable blue economy, again highlighting the African momentum on this movement. Across the Commonwealth, organisations such as my own at the Association of Commonwealth universities are supporting with this commitment. We believe that through international collaboration we can find solutions to shared global challenges, and we're pleased to be working with our diverse network of universities and governments to drive forward the aims of the blue charter. Our blue charter fellowships supported 38 researchers, including 16 from Africa to translate science into cutting edge solutions to reduce marine plastics pollution and strengthen collaboration and develop an ecosystem of academics and universities working in partnership to forward marine sustainability across the Commonwealth. The forthcoming heads of government meeting in Kigali and Rwanda this June will provide an opportunity to renew our commitment to the blue charter and take its impact to the next level. The blue economy shows much promise, including finding ways to pursue a low carbon, a low carbon path of economic development that would include creating employment opportunities and reducing poverty. Indeed, the World Bank believes that blue growth or environmentally sustainable economic growth based on the oceans is a strategy of sustaining economic growth and job creation necessary to reduce poverty in the face of worsening resource constraints and climate crisis. Given the high stakes, it is essential that Africa's blue economy policies and goals be expanded. Just as sustainable development green initiatives show promise so too could blue economy projects and activities. It's imperative that all states adopt strategies to achieve enhanced wealth and well being from the oceans in the coming years, where the blue economy outcomes will live up to their promise is another matter. There is little doubt that short term gains will be made from including from, for example, increased agriculture and advances in fishing technologies, yet the long term sustainability of these endeavors will require concerted effort and significant political will. Finally, as many of the challenges such as marine pollution or maritime security respects no borders, African countries will have to find more ways to boost cooperation and collaboration regionally and globally to find solutions and this I think this event is is is testimony to that. We believe that research and education have a vital role to play in supporting practical action and progress on the blue economy and that international collaboration will be central to realizing this transition. We're pleased to be working with partners including the Commonwealth Secretary on the development of a center of excellence for the blue economy in the eastern Caribbean in Antigua. And we hope that that will provide opportunities for new partnerships and the translation of research led solutions beyond the Caribbean across the Commonwealth and the globe. I'm confident that this symposium on Africa's blue economy will provide new and innovative ways about looking at Africa's blue economy and how to change code red to code blue. Again, thank you for allowing me the opportunity to provide these remarks and I look forward to a lively discussion. Thank you very much, Joanna in particular for reminding us of the urgency of the issues against the code red backdrop but also highlighting that there might be lots of opportunities to turn that towards blue. That leaves me then to introduce the moderator of our panel discussion, Dr. Donald Sparks. He has been the driving force behind the organization of our symposium here today. Donald is currently a visiting full bright professor in the economics department at so as, and he is also an emeritus professor of international economics at the Citadel in Charleston. He is also a visiting professor of international economics at the management center in Innsbruck, Austria. He serves on the economics and local economy specialist group of the International Union for conservation of natures commission on environmental, economic and social policy. Donald has been a full bright professor at the University of Switzerland previously the University of Maribor, the African Union Commission's Department of Economic Affairs in Addis, and at the National University of Laos. At the African University in Cairo he was the department chairman and visiting professor of economics for a year. Before he entered academia. Donald Sparks served as a foreign service officer in the Office of Economic Analysis at the US Department of State, and as a staff assistant to Senator Ernst Hollings. He is a senior consultant associate at the US Department of State during the Obama administration. He is also a proud alumnus of so as where he came to do his MA and PhD, and he has a bachelor's degree from George Washington University. The floor is yours, Donald. Lisa, thank you very much for the kind introduction. And I'm delighted that we have such a distinguished panel with us today representing academia, elected officials and policymakers. Before I introduce the panelists, I'd like to first thank Dr Newman for insightful comments she made about the code read and the importance and urgency of the focus on Africa's blue economy. I'd also like to thank the three hosting institutions, so as University of Seychelles and the Royal African Society. I've been a member for three decades, I believe. For panel members, I'll ask you to please limit your remarks your initial remarks to 15 minutes. Participants if you have questions which I'm sure you will please put them in the Q&A box. We have I think over 400 registries so I doubt we'll get to all your questions today. It would be a very long day if we did, but I welcome as many as we can. We'll begin in this order, Dr. Excuse me, Mr. John Francois Ferrari Minister, followed by Dr. Louis Renee Lerose Peter, Francis Moiganda and ending with Nicholas Harbin Montfort. I'll give a brief introductory introduction to panel members very brief across the full bio will be noted on the right hand side of your chat box. First with Minister for Fisheries and Blue Economy for Seychelles is John Francois Ferrari. He is a founding member of the party so sell off the largest political party in Seychelles, and it was elected in 2007 to the National Assembly. He earned his bachelor's degree in sociology and a master's in education science at University of France. And between 1960, excuse me 1993 2013. Mr Ferrari was the publisher and assistant editor of regard newspaper weekly publication in Seychelles. He's a great interest in law philosophy and politics, and we're honored to have him today. He'll be our first speaker followed by another session law, Dr. Louis Renee Lerose Peter also from Seychelles. He is an international consultant for the World Bank Group right now. He is at a member of the Center for Global Finance here at so as his former minister of finance trade and economic planning on the Seychelles, since position in 2016 after leaving his term at the World Bank, we served as two years as a executive director. He brings a wealth of experience from both the public and private sectors including knowledge of central banking, as he was also the general manager of the central bank of Seychelles. You'll be followed by Francis Moriande fellow full bike scholar. He was at the University of Arkansas. He's a senior lecturer public policy and social sciences at Zumba University in Tanzania. Francis has been a principal investigator of a variety of research projects to engage in numerous forums, including the six Indian Ocean dialogue of the Indian Ocean Rim Association. He wrote an impressive research record, including a number of publications on public policy analysis in the African context, and he wrote a chapter in the book that Nick Westcott referenced my edited body on the blue economy and in Southern Africa. This is Dr Nicholas Hardman Montfort, head of oceans and natural resources at the Commonwealth Secretary here in London, where he leads a technical team, delivering the Commonwealth Blue Charter Initiative, the Commonwealth Sustainable Energy Transition agenda and technical assistance projects and ocean governance and natural resources reform and Commonwealth countries makes the diplomat and marine scientists working in science climate science climate and resource governance. So development with strong focus on sustainable blue economies with 25 years research experience taking him to the Indian Ocean Pacific and the southern oceans Atlantic Ocean with a variety of research projects. He is also an adjunct professor at the University of Western Australia, and he's published over 150 publications, including book chapters articles, etc, including also a chapter in my recent book on the blue economy. So it's a very distinguished panelist we have today I look forward to your remarks. Minister Frank, could I ask you please to begin. Thank you. Thank you, Mr Sparks. I, I'd like first of all to, to tell you how privileged I feel that to have been invited to to participate in this. Symposium. I, I noticed that I'm the only politician in the room. And I, and for that I would like to share with you some interesting facts about the development of the blue economy in the seashells. Now I, you might be surprised. I don't have a prepared text, because in my mind I'd like to share the successes of the work that we have been doing in seashells in the for the past 1015 years, and I commend my predecessors and Dr. And for those who is in, in, which with us today has been one of those precursors who has believed in, in development of the blue economy. So I am just, I am not a trailblazer but I am some one of those politicians who has also believed and is now pushing the blue economy agenda as, as far as I can. Let me tell you a little bit about the, about the seashells you know. When we talk of the world's landmass, we talk we say landmass is 30% and the seascape is 70%. Now I'd like to tell you for those who do not know. In seashells 99.6% of, of our country is ocean and only 0.4% is is a landmass.  So we've realized that for, for many years, and this is why I am in the cabinet of ministers in the government of seashells. What you would term as the first amongst the ministers, the president of seashells wanted when he formed his first cabinet to give a very, very prominent place to the development of the blue economy. So he was his most senior minister to head this, this portfolio, but he also gave his, he gave, he also gave me a challenge to balance the development of the economy with the development of the fisheries industry, which we, we hope to develop to become the second pillar of the economy. So you can see from the start how what a difficult balancing act I have to do to, to develop the ocean economy and to protect it at the same time, but I like this challenge. And I'd like to tell you that, that over the past few years, we have done, I would say, pretty well in, in, in chartering a way forward. We, we are in many ways pioneers of, of the blue economy financing, because we realized from from day one that although there, there's never been so much money on the table for, for blue, the blue economy development, it has never been so hard to to access those finances, because of the rules that are imposed by lending organizations that are imposed by, by NGOs or all other organization who, by the way, with respect to all of you, who claim to be to be advocates and then and and supporters of the blue economy, but who often, who often are part of a system, which makes it very difficult for us to expand into the blue economy. So what have we done in Seychelles. Now in order to achieve this very delicate balance between development and conservation, and in order to give ourselves a chance to succeed in protecting our ocean space because we, we, we are very conscious of the need to to to conserve and protect our ocean space, because you will, you will know that our first industries tourism. Now, between fisheries and tourism between hydrocarbon research and tourism, there, there, there are some very slippery slopes there. So, Seychelles has had to develop some, some very, some, some innovative and strategic planning tools, as well as financing tools, which we are proud to share with the, with the rest of the world. And I say that because I'd like to remind you I said earlier that it is difficult to raise finance and sometimes when we succeed in raising finance for our project, we find it difficult to, to, to, to, to allocate those finance to the specific projects because of bureaucratic and and and other, other difficulties. Now, amongst those strategic planning tools and you know receive financing tools. I like to, I like to say that earlier on in our development, we, we realize that we needed a blue economy framework and we needed a blue economy roadmap. So that it could give us a really a very clear policy document. So that we can, that we can convince the world and our partners to, to, to stand by us. And this was, this was formulated and officialize two years ago through the technical development of the Commonwealth Secretariat. So, so it is only fitting at this point that I, I, I, I say thank you to the Commonwealth, I see that the blue chart is in, is in the room, and, and the universities and the room so thank you so much for, for being our partner in, in mapping out this framework and roadmap. Now, another example which, which I think it is important that other countries take, take serious note of is we embarked with, with other partners on, on the special marine special plan, special plan, which for us is a strategic governance tool. And we, we, we did this in partnership with the, the Nature Conservancy and the Seychelles UNDP, GEF program coordinating unit. We work with the, with the European Union and, and we work very hard on this MSP. And, and, and this allowed us to restructure our debt. Mr. LaRose again, Professor LaRose you will, you will have been very instrumental in, in, in the design, in designing those tools, and, and we, it was a very important tool, because it allows, allowed us at a very difficult time in our economy to restructure our national debt in exchange for designating 30% of our EZ as marine protected areas. So I'm just, I, I, it's been a long, it's been long haul, it's been, it's been difficult negotiations, hard work but, but I, I believe that unless we have those kind of tools, we don't, we don't move forward. And so, then we also needed a monitoring and evaluation framework. It is, it is absolutely important because, because each time we, we, we come up with a program or with the, with a project, we are asked, how are we going to evaluate and how are we going to monitor, and how are we going to track to the donors on an implementing and making sure that the implementing agents are tracking and assessing the achievements that we have set out. So the blue economy monitoring and evaluation framework is key, is key. And I'd like to tell everyone, if you don't have it, then you need to, you need to work towards it, because this is what is going to help you to raise some some finance for some interesting projects. And finally, I won't, I won't bore you too much with those finance tools and technical tools, but I'd like to, to, to, to tell you that in 2018 Seychelles launched its first sovereign blue bond, which is also very innovative. And, and, and it is designed, those points are designed to support sustainable marine fisheries. So the, and the proceeds from the bonds have been used in supporting expansion of marine protected areas. So all these interlinked. Now, I'll, I'll, I'll, I'll just move on a little bit to, to tell you that despite those tools and despite having been one of the countries that have been the most successful in pushing our into the new frontier. We have some challenges. And, and these challenges that the first one is the fact that Seychelles is high income country now. It's the only one or maybe the second one in Africa, high income country, and nobody wants to hang around with us anymore, because, because we are supposed to be, we're supposed to be okay, we're supposed to know what to do and we're supposed to have all the means. Well, it's wrong. It's wrong. It's it's wrong to think like that. It's, it's wrong to, to, to, to allow us to, to swim on our own, because we, we are on the, on the road to becoming a success story. And, and we need to be accompanied to the, to the end of our efforts. So, and, and I just like to say that the difficulties and the challenges that we face. Are not challenges that we, that we have brought upon ourselves. There are challenges that we inherit from the rest of the world and especially from the developed world. I mean when when we talk of overfishing in Seychelles. It's not us who are overfishing we don't have the capacity to overfish. When we talk of illegal fishing, unreported, unregulated fishing. It's not us doing it. It's, it's, it's the bigger countries and sometimes even the European Union countries who are present in the, in the Indian Ocean, but also larger countries such as India, Pakistan, Oman and countries like that. So, so we are small. And yet we have, we have to face those very big challenges. We have, we have not spent enough time and money. We have some research but and thank, thank, thankfully for that on, on, on finding on deepening our research in on matters of coral bleaching and ocean temperature rise and global warming. And we need now to mitigate the, the adverse effects of those phenomenons. So, we will be turning again to, to, to the financing agencies to help us save our mangroves and, and, and, and pick up marine debris because pick up plastic pollution. Not from our side. When I go to the islands in Seychelles, and I go, go do some beach cleaning, the, the, the flip flops and the, and the, and the plastic water bottles, the pet bottles that I pick up, not come from Seychelles. They come from the, from the other side of the world as far as the, as the Atlantic. So we have those very, very big challenges to keep our space clean for tourism. Clean and sustainable for our fishing industry, but all these costs. When you tell us, and I will, I will, I will end on this point. When we are congratulated for having reached 30 30 in 2022. We have designated 30% of our ocean space to as protected areas. So we would like to tell the world, we need to, we need to manage those areas. It's okay to do to designate them, but if we can't manage them it's useless. We wasting our time. So, so the effort is, is a continued effort. And, and it's, it's, it doesn't stop at the, at our stage of development but it should continue. And, and I, I would like to thank all of you who advocate for small island states like ourselves and who recognize the important contribution that we are, we are trying to make to, to, to, to protect and preserve the ocean. So I can tell you, we are, we are grateful for whatever you do for us, but we still need, we are in the middle of the ocean we are like orphans, and we need, we need the, we need the bigger human world international family to accompany us in those efforts that we are that we are doing so I thank you for, for advocating in our favor and understanding the challenges that we face. Thank you. Thank you very much for your very balanced remarks where you discussed the, the successes and challenges facing Seychelles. And I might note that I was struck by your comment about Seychelles being a victim in a way of pollution and other, you know, adverse conditions, climate change being other others that they didn't really contribute much to. It's indicative of much of the developing world and certainly most of, of Africa is this way they really didn't contribute that much to global warming for example yet they are suffering as much if not more than anywhere else on earth. And I was also struck by Seychelles leadership, not only just in the Indian Ocean region and Africa but worldwide, you have done a remarkable job of protecting marine coastal areas cooperating with your neighbor Mauritius, and being a member of the fisheries transparency initiative a charter member of this initiative. So Seychelles is really a very small place with a big punch. So thank you for your comments I'm sure there'll be some questions for you later. Let me just tell you this, I think it'll be of interest. And yet we are, we are trying projects that are beyond our size. You know that with Mauritius, we have embarked on the joint management of the Seyadimala Plateau which is, which is beyond our EZ and to protect, to protect grass meadows, the size of Switzerland. We want to protect those meadows because we know how important they are, it is as carbon sinks. And, but really we are fighting. We are punching way way we have over our width. And, and we need to, we need the whole world to partner with us, because we really believe in what we're doing, and, and with your help we can, we can succeed. Thank you. Thank you very much. I'll ask it out for fellow Seychelles, Dr. Peter Rose, would you please take the floor. Thank you so much, John. And, of course, from the outset, I would like to thank Honorable Minister Jean-François-Feuwari for his very rich introduction and remarks about me. Yes, indeed, I contributed a lot in the development of Seychelles. And still, there are more to be contributed. So, never feel shy to keep me outside the loop because I'm ever ready to carry the flags of the beautiful Seychelles. Of course, when I look at the opportunities and challenges, I want to start with some simple economic terms. Nothing complicated at this juncture. For example, the opportunities first. What is this blue economy? It is a vast economic sector, perhaps the largest sector over tourism development. And of course, as the Honorable Minister spoke eloquently, he is really overseeing the gold mine of Seychelles. We might not see it right away, but it's coming up. If we are prepared to put our minds, our heads together and our efforts, we can make it a gold mine. It's not the first time I repeat about the blue economy as a gold mine. And of course, I'm very passionate and very convinced that it's going to happen in the future. We just need some determined people to come together and bring up the philosophical drive that will achieve this oil road economic outcome. Of course, it's a vast ocean and provides a lot of fisheries with income for the local sector and international sector. So all these sectors depends on Seychelles. It's not something that we are too small. We are never too small until we find it impossible. Seychelles is there. And of course, most of the time we forget about the contribution that Seychelles does to our own respective cash box as a former policymaker. And of course, I've realized that this is something that we have to make sure that it happens over a certain period of time frame. This time frame cannot be too long. It must be short term. We have to start there with a short term summary. And in the end, we will settle this amount to achieve the main objectives of Seychelles. It provides employment and a vast amount of income to local and international communities. This is what the international community forgets. That Seychelles can be the bread baskets for simple reason is that once they've gathered the maximum revenue and return, they forget about this little island called Seychelles. And to many other business entrepreneurs, it can be turned into a cash cow or for any country if it is efficiently exploited with other sectors. You know, the blue economy certainly is an economic sector, but it does not stand on its own. It is integrated with other sectors, and we have to make it work. We have to make this scientific and strategic analysis to make sure where do we derive maximum revenue. And of course it provides scope for major collaboration with neighboring countries. Greatest scope for additional services. One important challenge is that we face, of course, we tend to say that we are small, but I don't believe that small doesn't mean anything. And in fact, if we look at the, I'm sorry to digress a little bit, if we look at America, America is not the largest countries in the world, but it's certainly outreach to planet Mars, which is much bigger than what we are. So we can only say that we are limited when we find it is unlimited. One major issues with regards to the constraints, which I would like to highlight. You know, the advantages would always work in our best advantages, as long as we monitor and research surveillance, the changing environment to make sure that we are on the right track. This avoid the geopolitical risk. Hence, I commend the Pan African setup for this type of business enterprise. The African setup will certainly drives out the greedy people, the greedy entrepreneurs out of our system, because surely we want to generate a bigger amount of kicks and of course as we are calling on our fellow members are Africans. We need the support and we seems as a small country to have the benefit of the advantages of being very, very small. We've done so many things that other countries feel to achieve. We can't put it aside and say, oh, let's put it aside, we've achieved what we've achieved. No, there's more to be achieved, and I'm convinced we don't remain a step ahead. Who is a very passionate developer, and he speaks very frankly, and then he takes the advantage of satias and other African countries very seriously. He's a man that we can certainly follow his lead. And I am one of them who will be prepared to assist honorable minister in whatever venture in whatever Dimash is about to find out. At least another session will be there and ready for it. So, you know, the being a vast ocean, especially when we talk of all about other countries, African countries. So we need to consider ourselves to be very critical about economic, social and political exploitation. Sometimes as I said, Joe politics can play a lot of damage. And then by the time we realize it, it's already too far. Some of the biggest entrepreneurs, they are there to destroy, not to construct. It requires in terms of finance, a large amount of capital, and this capital cannot be generated from Africa alone. So they mostly an amount raised externally with the collaboration of external parties. Certainly, I looked at the presentation where they mentioned about either, you know, sessions being small. What is it for either. That's an international development association. And I used to be an executive director for this organization, I always argue that sessions deserve more than benefits from this idea. It's high time. And I'm sure Honorable Minister will join me at a certain point in time to make his voice known to the international community. It's no time to joke. It's time to up seriously and seriously. Certainly on the maximum exposure should be elevated. So at least it provides us adequate finance that will help other sectors, because we cannot certainly talk about development using chicken feed financing. If we are going to raise $5 million, and then of course they ask for 15 million, 20 million. Talking about the blue bone, I was a minister who signed on 2018, just before I departed the government on a blue bone. It was not easy, but I was convinced it can be done. And I'm really glad that Honorable Minister for knowledge that today that it was all secretly kept under carpet. In my own little way, I worked so hard for this country. I realized that I've spoken quite a lot. And I do really respect the time allocated to me, and I will certainly give my final comments. That's the resources are there, but you need capable people to find where these resources are and how can it be raised. We should not be scared of amounts. We should be scared if our ventures will turn successful, and we have to make it successful. Honorable Minister for knowledge and our distinguished panel. Thank you so much for allowing me the space to share with you today. I think there are opportunities that we can have a greater platform. So at least we can iron out all our little problems. Thank you so much, Mr. Chairman. Thank you very much for your contributions. You speak with tremendous authority having been the biggest proponent for replenishing the IDA round, which gave I think $93 billion to give but provided $93 million for development purposes under your leadership. You know what you're talking about. And I was struck by your philosophy about it's never too small to do the right thing. That's what I got from your presentation and Seychelles, again, being one of the smallest nations, not only in Africa, but in the world, is never too small to do the right thing. And a good example of localized financing with the blue bond initiative as opposed to looking for a global source of financing and a few questions have come in about the focus perhaps being too much on global financing where I think this is a good example of local financing with your blue bond initiative. So thank you very much for that. We'll ask now, Francis Moriande, Francis please, the floor is yours. Thank you very much. Sparks. Can I have the screen to share. I have a slides to share with you. If you go down to your bottom of your screen you'll see screen share the green box, the very bottom, and you should press that and you should be, you should get to your screen. Okay, are you able to see I hope. Alright, so thank you very much and I really feel honored to be invited to this symposium. I would like to give my presentation titled Blue Economy Regional Cooperation for a sustainable future, which was the main theme, but the focus is on Tanzania. And also, I wanted to introduce to you the permanent secretary about the Jumbe Ministry of Blue Economy and the fisheries in the Zanzibar, and also the captain and Dr. Hamad Bakar, who is the director from the Ministry of Blue Economy and Fisheries in the government. And our presentation, I hope it is moving, it's not moving. Okay, let me just go ahead. In this presentation, what we have prepared is the blue economy in Tanzania, and what we are giving you is the opportunities and the challenges is the focus of the symposium. Nevertheless, it's important to know the geolocation of Tanzania. You'd realize that Tanzania is bordering the Indian Ocean, and we have the stretch of over 1400 kilometers along the Indian Ocean. And that alone gives the sense that we have the potential, and this is the unleashed potential for blue economy in Tanzania. And as I said, I'm honored to be accompanied by the Ministry of Blue Economy and Fisheries in the Zanzibar. Zanzibar is surrounded by waters and you see is the Indian Ocean. So, as you were talking, possibly there are a lot of commonality that we share issues with the Zanzibar, but the challenges possibly could be similar or different. Now, what we are presenting to you is what are the potential areas that blue economy could be taken forward under the regional cooperation for sustainable future of Tanzania. In the study that I conducted, which was part of my chapter in Sparks book, you would realize that there are potential sectors. We have the marine transportation, and that goes without saying that there are ports and in Tanzania, we have the Tanzania Port Authority. We have also the potential for industries, and this comes from the Ministry of Industries, and this one could be the industries for fisheries, industries for making ships. But we have also for natural gas. Tanzania has a potential for natural gas, which were explored recently, and that has also not been explored to the maximum to benefit the economy. We have the another potential, the tourism industry. The tourism industry that would use the water resources, the marine resources, all along with the beaches, the same with a stretch of over 1,400 kilometers along this, that is also an exploited potential. All these possibly cannot happen without the enabling environment. So what we are looking is the challenges. The challenge is on the enabling environment. When we talk of enabling environment, we are referring to the policy process that unless there is a buy in from the government that would put in place a policy for exploiting the marine resources, the blue economy resources that would not happen. So the Tanzania government emanating from what we we had in the political election manifestos, and in this case, possibly I'm referring to the current ruling party, the CCM, that they had the one of the agenda in their election manifesto was development of blue economy. And it was from there that the government of Zanzibar have already developed the blue economy policy. And in fact, they established, we have established a full fledged ministry. The Ministry of Blue Economy and Fisheries. So that shows the government buy in for developing a blue economy. Sorry, my slides are not moving. So instead of wasting my time, I decided just to go ahead without my slides. Now, based on that policy, there is a framework that the government is developing. And that means the implementation of the blue economy in Tanzania. And that cuts across the sectors that are involved. And these includes the ministry of industries, ministry of livestock and fisheries, ministry of transport, as we have marine transport. We have also ministry of tourism that would. So, as we are talking about cooperation at a national level, what is needed as the potential one is the, the government buy in. And two is the coordination across sectors, as we're saying, these sectors that I just mentioned, but corporate would not be enough, the, we need more corporations. We know for sure that we have that. And for sure. We need a cooperation with all the members along the Iora, but we need to go and explore what the African Union has put as a strategy, African Union strategy for blue economy, specify that what we have for all the opportunities for the European market, we have also the Chinese markets, but also we have within the African countries that we could incorporate within the African Union partnership. So, what are the challenges, the challenges are lying on the capacity, the human and resource capacity, the financing, the financing of green economy for the industrialization, the financing for human capacity on recent. I come from on Zumba University, which is a real academia, we need to create the capacity for linkages between academia research and the industry, the industry is on the blue economy, where there is a real low link, as we speak, we need to build the capacity. In Tanzania, we tried to establish the chapter for Iora on academic group, but we couldn't go ahead because we have lack of resources to promote the academia and research industry linkages. So we need the resources for this. So, more than that, the cooperation that is likely to happen is only when we have for the, I should say, the high level government platforms that would buy in the blue economy to make an implementation of the African Union agenda. And so to speak, what we are suggesting from this end is to promote the African Union blue economy agenda, because no single country can go along with this agenda. Essentially, so we need to go along with that and that cooperation, we should not isolate Africa should link with other countries that are in the world promoting the blue economy. Having said this, we would like to end up here, but welcome comments and questions as my colleagues from the Ministry of Blue Economy and Fisheries. I believe they were able to join. They could also contribute later. Thank you so much. Thank you very much for your comments, focusing on Tanzania, particularly I was struck by your call for this interdisciplinary approach and noting that no single country can go it alone. And you must have, must have cooperation. I think that leads as well to our next speaker of Dr. Nicholas Harvey Montford who specializes in country cooperation, typically with this chart blue charter so big the floor is yours. Thank you Donald. Thank you very much and want to acknowledge all the other speakers honorable minister, former minister and distinguished colleagues, all curts is observed. I do have a few slides to share so if you just go with me while I shared those. And then I will go to the full presentation mode. And should be able to see that. So that's great. Okay, can you see those. Okay, Donald. Fantastic. Okay. I want to take a slightly different tack to the blue economy today. And first we'll say it's a real privilege to be here speaking at this symposium and the title is really grabbed me to this regional cooperation for sustainable future because an organization that promotes cooperation between member states as a way of achieving sustainable development that really resonated. A colleague of mine in Kenya, David Abura who's an internationally renowned calls brief scientist and conservation scientist has recently been writing about the importance of narratives in direction setting. And for outcomes in conservation and blue economy and so on. I want to share with you today different narrative to the one that often prevails on the blue economy, which is that lots of wealth. You know that the prevailing narrative is there's lots of wealth to be had from the ocean but we're not making progress because of lack of investment, unsustainable operating practices inadequate governance and so on and I'm not saying that those those aren't important discussions to have. And so today I want to share with you some case studies of leadership in the blue economy. And specifically African leadership that is setting a tone that can permeate African endeavors for sustainable development for the ocean space. So the first area of leadership I want to highlight and our previous ministers touched on this previous speaker so he's touched on this already is the African blue economy strategy that was launched by the African Union at the beginning of 2020. It's the first continental scale blue economy strategy. And that's phenomenal. Again, Africa really showing a realization that the blue economy is not something we can take nationally or in small regions but but there's a continental scale approach to this because there's one ocean that unites us all. In that it highlights that the ocean economy in Africa is currently already worth 296 billion dollars a year, and that's set to double by 2063 currently supports 49 million jobs and again that's due to increase to 80 million by 2063. So the key question is how to get there sustainably. And I think one of the, the difficulties we have when thinking about the blue economy is it's often presented as a thing that this is a sector or this is a block. I think the best way to think about the blue economy is as a process or a transition. And so when we think about the blue economy we can think about and making the ocean economy more sustainable or bluing the ocean economy so so how are we able to to blue the ocean economy. In the Commonwealth, we have 54 countries of which 47 of coastal states, we have 12 countries in Africa. And in 2018 all Commonwealth heads of government agreed to a multilateral agreement on the ocean called the Commonwealth Blue Charter which is an agreement to cooperate on ocean action. The way that's being taken forward is through action groups there are 10 action groups championed by 16 countries and 46 member countries have joined one or more of those action groups. All of those champion countries are within Africa. Say shells for marine protected areas Kenya for the sustainable blue economy and Mauritius for coral reef protection and restoration. So again, this is, we're seeing African leadership at the international scale around taking these initiatives forward. So let's zoom into this box on the side here, you'll see what those action groups are and the 16 champion countries but I'm not going to dwell on that today. What I'd like to do is talk about these case studies and I'm putting this slide up because the Seychelles is my favorite case study, having worked on the blue economy roadmap with Seychelles and I've done a couple of case studies I'm highlighting that are available on our website around the marine spatial planning and the blue finance approaches that Seychelles have taken. But since the minister has spoken about these so eloquently already I'm not going to go into those. Now, instead I'm going to jump to a case study from South Africa, called ocean women. The sustainable blue economy needs, firstly, to be science based, because it's needed to underpin the evidence base for policy and decision making. Secondly, it needs to improve equity for communities within the ocean economy. And this next case study addresses both of these challenges. The global demographic of South Africa based on the 2011 sensors showed that 76% of the population was black. And the University of Cape Town did its own audit in 2018 and found that 31% of professors were women. So 76 women professors there, but only 15 of these were black South Africans. The University of Oceanography looked at its postgraduate students 73 postgraduate students, only 12 of these were black women, and there were no black women in the faculty. So the difference to the national demographic was stark, and there was a realization of the need for action so in 2018 the Vice Chancellor launched the advancing women initiative, and that supports this ocean women project. And it's actually championed by the Office of the Vice Chancellor and funded through the University. And the program has three aims. Firstly, to develop a prestigious research and leadership program for black women, the recruits retains and enables success for the next generation of black women oceanographers. And secondly, to identify and overcome barriers by creating an environment that allows black women to succeed and become leaders. And thirdly, to determine if the ocean women model could be applied more broadly in other ocean science programs in South Africa or to other ocean oceanography programs beyond South Africa. So it's a really holistic approach. Ocean women offers the fellows tailored support in these three areas financial professional and personal. So taking a holistic view of the barriers for black women in science. And so the inaugural cohort of five black women, the fellows entered the program in 2020 and two more joined in 2021. It's really moving towards its goal of creating a generation of black women leaders in oceanography who become role models and mentors for future generations. It's an evolving program that offers formalized mentorship opportunities connects fellows with black women mentors and other sciences. And these fellows begun seeking out the mentors to participate in the program. So it's a really, you know, excellent example of how equity is being dealt with in the African blue economy and a great example of leadership. The next case study gets far more technical. This is one that shows coastal that from, well, the Western Indian Ocean region, Madagascar, Mauritius Mozambican South Africa. And it's a coastal risk information service. One of the key areas where ocean science and data are needed to support a sustainable blue economy is an addressing climate risks. And it is exposed to an increase in the frequency and intensity of weather related phenomena, such as sea surges, cyclones and flooding, and due to climate change generally. The coastal populations of Southwest Indian Ocean nations are increasingly vulnerable to the effects of such extreme weather events. In particular, there are climate sensitive economically important coastal resources, such as port and aquaculture infrastructures, as well as ecologically important habitats that are exposed to the sea surges associated with ever more frequent and forceful cyclones. The predictability of such events can be improved with knowledge gained from the acquisition and analysis of satellite drive data on ocean and atmospheric variables. So the regional data on coastal risk factors can be a major barrier. So, so, as can the skills to develop this and so the sea rise project has sought to improve the situation by offering training opportunities to coastal management practitioners in Southern Africa through courses on how to acquire necessary open access data sets, which are hosted by South Africa. They are licensed free software. And to train them on how to apply such data sets and analytical skills to resolve the specific challenges they focused on there were 27 real world case studies in the coastal settings of Mozambique Madagascar that were focused on by the project. It was funded by the UK Space Agency between 2016 2019. And it's really delivered on its three objectives, delivering a coastal risk information service providing satellite derived information about sea levels, wind and waves to support coastal vulnerability assessment and hazard management efforts. It's applied and evaluated the sea rise service through the application of its products to selected real world scenarios that address local priorities. And it's built local capacity to use satellite data to provide scientific decision support for strategy development governance and management of coastal areas to increase resilience to coastal hazards. And the impact of this is already being demonstrated. For example, it's enabled law enforcement in case of drug trafficking and illegal migration, improved management of mangroves and reefs and improve the management of marine protected areas. So, again, real case study of how Africa is taking a lead in the technology needed to support a sustainable blue economy. The third case study I want to share is one of the most innovative developments in the blue economy, which is around blue carbon. Blue carbon are essentially investments in coastal habitats that are particularly efficient at sequestering carbon dioxide, and then selling these as carbon credits on the international voluntary carbon markets. The Tahiri Hong Kong mangrove carbon project was one of the first in the world to demonstrate how community based blue carbon projects can work. The Tahiri Hong Kong project is helping build community resilience and provides a model to help tackle climate breakdown by restoring and protecting mango forests. Mangoes underpin coastal fisheries and provide vital sources of fuel, wood and timber protects coastal people from extreme weather and act as a key natural climate solution by sequestering globally significant amounts of carbon dioxide. So, as you can see, mangroves are being deforested at an alarming rate. Unbated mangrove destruction will deprive tens of millions of people of their livelihoods and undermine their well being. It will exacerbate the global climate emergency we now face while taking away what vital natural protection coastal people have against it. So, by verifying the success of this management and monitoring under the plan vivo standard. This approach generates carbon credits who sale can in turn provide sustainable income to both the project villages and the Volandriac management association. The project promotes locally led conservation reforestation and sustainable use of over 1200 hectares mangroves alongside initiatives that build alternative livelihoods, including sea cucumber and seaweed farming and mangrove beaky and they support the delivery of health and education services in the region as well by avoiding emissions of over 1300 tons of CO2 per year. So, here we Hong Kong will provide a regular income through carbon credit sales to support local management of the marine protected area over the next 20 years. And funds will also help finance community development, including the construction of vital infrastructure supporting health care and education. So, I hope these case studies have really shown you how there's a different narrative about the blue economy in Africa that we can tell as well about how African countries are really showing leadership in developing a sustainable blue economy. I just wanted to finish with this last slide, which is one of my favorite projections of the world. It's shows it as one ocean. It's an ocean centric views called the spillhouse projection. It reminds me of Pablo Neruda's line, the piece of the sand that encircles the world. Africa right in the heart of this map. And it shows how Africa's blue economy is connected to the rest of the world through this one ocean. And so, cooperation regionally within Africa and beyond Africa is absolutely essential for delivering a sustainable blue economy. So, on that note, I just thank you and bring greetings from all those across the Commonwealth. Nick, thank you very, very much for a very insightful and illuminating list of case studies, which I think help us give ammunition to the folks who are arguing for the positive changes against the pessimists out there who seem to think this is hopeless. Well, the challenges are great. You mentioned a number of important success stories that was also struck by your mentioning of the equity story in South Africa. Because sometimes this has not been given as much emphasis as it should have been for sure. So I appreciate the range of case studies you provided for us, and also your general philosophy about the importance of collaboration and regional cooperation. Before we get to the 20 or 30 questions I've seen my question box, I do have a question related to this is a bit on the technical side but it has political implications for the region. Let me just ask anyone, perhaps Nick I could ask you first but then anyone else that wants to start, you know the Africa's integrated maritime strategy that's been referenced two or three times this afternoon. The United Arab Emirates maritime strategy about African Union calls for a combined exclusive maritime zone for Africa, a combined exclusive maritime zone for Africa. Again, I don't want to get too technical about the about this but as a philosophical or a political statement is that realistic in the near future and is it necessary question to any panel members, I think I start with Nick though. So, obviously, this is a political question for African regionalization and to what extent do African nations want more than economic union that is achieved through the African continental free trade area. And also, is there an opportunity through the African continental free trade area to explore some elements of greater elements of trans boundary cooperation within their existing is at the moment, particularly in relation to trade. I think it's an evolving story, you know, where Africa goes on political union in the future just as it with Europe or with the Caribbean or with the Pacific, you know, it is an ongoing discussion. And, but but I think the the opportunity of the African continental free trade area does provide opportunities for some level of greater cooperation around use of those exclusive economic zones. Could I ask minister for I to comment on this is he might be facing this various issue right now I'm not sure but what would you say about the idea of a combined exclusive economic zones I know you've been working with Mauritius along those lines in a way but how much further can can we go. Thank you I must say I haven't given much much thought to to that to that extent because what you what you're suggesting is is huge but what I'd like to say is that a regional cooperation is where we should start and and we in the Indian Ocean and and the presentation that we just saw has shown us how when we cooperate regionally we can do great things. And so I believe that we should start at that level in the, the, the example that I gave earlier that you, you know, about is the joint management of the side in my life plateau, we've been in sessions and Mauritius, it's a very, very exciting project and, and, and we all want to see it replicated in other parts of the world. But it starts at that level one plus one. I think, I think we should Africa is so diverse at the moment that we should be looking at commonalities and and things that that that unite us across the region. Another example is is a fisheries management. We, it's, it's absolutely essential that we, that we get this right, because it is, it is a very important resource in the blue economy that is under serious threat. And I can tell you already in the Indian Ocean, in the Indian Ocean to now commission, we are having some, some real difficulties trying to, to align our position so so the why the larger the group the more difficult it becomes. I have to say, my, my vision is for, is for unity across the, across the regions and sub regions as a first step towards the words having, having more open, open and wider groupings across the continent. Thank you. Thank you very much. Thank you, Dr. Rose or Francis any comments on this idea of how to strengthen cooperation either continental wide or sub regionally. Thank you for listening carefully to the questions. And of course, as Honorable Minister ferrari mentioned, we need to start somewhere. Special recognition must go to a strategic approach as a special plan of policies that will showcase us to a much grander efforts to achieve collective certainly the point of being joined together. We cannot join together in a big way would be like Europe. We lost with this European exchange rate, you know, but in the end, this is suffice experience to lead us to the same and on. We cannot start being and then and small. That's my view. Thank you very much. Francis any comments for you. I'm muted. Francis are you having audio issues or you're unmuted. Okay, can you hear me. Yeah. Yeah. Thank you to Chippin, and I must be in the states of. And in my presentation that Africa is endowed with a lot of marine resources. For example, for Tanzania they say alluded, we have a stretch of over 1400 kilometers alone, and a lot of unexplored resources, the natural gas that has been found in the southern part of Tanzania is there but we cannot exploit the resources in isolation. Due to the technical capacity. We need a human resource capacity with the knowledge, we need the skills which are built in in the industry, but we need also the finance, we need infrastructure to be developed. So that cannot happen in isolation as I say in the area that the member countries can utilize the existing framework, and that is guided by the African Union blue economy strategy. And I think that's where we start because we have already the, the, the policy framework. And since the, the African member countries that assigned to the African Union, that is a platform for the buy in, there is a buy in but we need to implement it to put it into practice, but also monitor this as each of these countries have signed that platform. So I think the cooperation that we are looking for is to see the input of the African Union blue economy strategy, and no one should be left behind each of these three should go along this. Thank you. Thank you very much. A number of questions have come in regarding the importance of local buy in has been mentioned a few times, but a few comments have suggested that local efforts have been perhaps ignored by Western minded organizations. One from just came in says I'll read it for you. Historically when collaborating with international and regional governments to create policy about a blue economy. Indigenous knowledge has been neglected. For example, when looking at the creation of fisheries policy in Tanzania to creation of Mafia Island Marine Park, Mombasa Marine Park, how do the panel members suggest to prevent this from future collaborative endeavors in other words, how can more indigenous and local knowledge and expertise be employed for moving the blue economy agenda forward. I ask anyone to comment please. No, I don't. I would like to participate in this questions. Hello, please. We are all Africans. So therefore we have to believe in African model. And we've promoted because if our own Africans has to promote a model, and then he doesn't get the support at the end of the day what do we expect from him, which means that it's dead at birth. You know, we need certainly to change our mindset. We are developing with our unity with our collaboration and with regards to a general maximum return. We cannot generate maximum return if there's no effort. I repeat, we cannot generate maximum return without effort. We need the special effort work hard and then the benefits comes later. I certainly agree. Just add Donald. I think you know the need for proper stakeholder engagement in any blue economy project is absolutely critical. I mean I think too often it's an afterthought. In fact, it should probably be the bulk of the work is stakeholder engagement in terms of really making sure that all communities are consulted, all views are taken onto account. Indigenous and traditional knowledge is an absolutely critical source of data and and insight into local systems local communities local ways of livelihood. It's a critical environment the way it works in ways that that science hasn't mapped out yet often. I remember sort of standing in Western Australia talking to one of the traditional owners, looking out over the sea and he was telling me from oral knowledge, where the the fresh water springs used to be under that see 7,000 years ago. Before the sea levels rose. That is phenomenal knowledge, if we can tap it. And so, you know, really sort of in making sure that that in Africa and elsewhere, you know that all stakeholders are properly engaged and that particularly we pay attention to indigenous and traditional knowledge systems and and then I think you know that that will provide a real really good underpinning for any sustainable development that follows from that. And related related comment suggested that there hasn't been enough to engage harness youth involvement in pushing the blue economy agenda forward. Are we guilty of this are we guilty of not engaging the youth in Africa, to the extent we need to know. Can I come in. Sure, yes please thank you. Yes. You alluded to the blue. And how the indigenous knowledge you can possibly be used and benefited to this. For the implementation, which I think there is an exploited potential and this potential for socio economic development in Africa. That policy has put or highlights on the government to buy in to develop the economies using the, the available marine resources. That policy should be inclusive. That policy gives us the sense that all these initiatives should be inclusive enough so that no one is left behind this before the sophisticated blue economy comes in the indigenous sector, who have been using the marine resources for their likely I mean livelihood. Nevertheless, their poverty levels haven't been improved because of the low technology of exploiting the marine resources, the fisheries have been using low fishing equipment, low technologies, but they have the indigenous skills, which needs now to be developed from where they are. They need to improve where they have been traditionally been working on. And then largely, we could see that the women, engaging in the fisheries project, they have been part of it they don't go into fishing, but they, you see them in the value chain, where you see them in the market, you see them are processing the fishes that comes on. So as we adopt these, the sophisticated in fishing industries that would come to process, they should include women so it should include. It should be inclusive enough, including women and youth, why without this regarding their local knowledge that we develop the existing knowledge to modernize it. Thank you. Can I say something? Please. Yes, I like to say, stakeholder engagement is is absolutely critical. And for the youth, of course, but for the, for the coastal communities, and all of those who will be involved in the blue economy. One thing that you have to accept is that there is still a lot of suspicion vis-à-vis a discourse or narrative that comes from the, from the rich world to the poor world. There is a lot of suspicion. And, and people in my country people view this with skepticism, and a lot of the effort is, is made into convincing them that the project is a good one, despite the fact that it is being promoted by, by those guys, excuse me, ladies and gentlemen, those guys who messed up our environment. So, a lot of, a lot of the effort is, is there. But it works. It works if we put the effort and we engage them. Let me tell you, of a, of a fantastic story that unfolded this, this week in Seychelles. We, we, we celebrated the, the end of a project where the fishermen on the second island of, of Paralyne, on their own, put up a project, raise the finance and close the fishery for six months. And for, for three consecutive years, because they wanted to, they believe that by regulating and managing the fishery, it can work and it did work. There's more fish. There's larger fish. It's a fantastic story done by the people themselves without any, any involvement of, of the government authorities, except for the fact that the government authority said, you may go ahead, go ahead with it and, and, and get it done. So, there are things that are beautiful stories that are happening around, around our countries, but most of them are a bottom up a stakeholder driven and, and, and involve, involve the stakeholders. Later on this, this year, in October and November, we've just concluded the, the organization of a research, a research, a scientific research project that is funded by the Monaco Foundation. The foundation that will, that will, that will do research work in Mauritius, Seychelles, Sadimala, and back to Mauritius. We have, we have 15 young scientists on board that vessel, 15, and they are all excited and all eager to go and do something because we have involved the stakeholders, and we don't do that enough. So, so I, as I thank you for your interest, I thank you for your, and I, and I'm sure that you, you do it with all your heart. Don't forget to involve the, the local communities, because they are the ones that the check the other ones who's who need to be part of the success, if the success is going to be sustainable in time. Next, it won't work. This is the last thing I like to see on stakeholder involvement is be careful also when, when you come up with, with no tech zones, saying in this area we won't do anything we just conserve and preserve very suspicious. People want to continue earning the livelihood, even if it's in a national park in a marine park, people want to do it. People want to earn the livelihood, and whether we change a little bit and move from fishing to tourism.  It just doesn't work. People turn into, into poachers, and we lose the, the, the, the whole, the whole, the whole success is lost because of the of the suspicion so I hope you understand what I've been trying to say. We just need to be careful with the way we approach where we engage the local stakeholders, but we need to be careful in the way we approach them. Thank you. Thank you. I take, I take with note, your point about suspicion. Thank you for those comments. We are almost out of time but I want to present one last question for me to the four of you, and I want to ask you please to limit your question, your answer to a minute or less. It's a bit off topic in a way, but we've been talking about the need for cooperation and collaboration. We haven't talked yet about it all about and it's rarely talked about in forums like this, the hinterland states, landlock states, and what's in it for them. So, if you were a policy maker in East Wattini where I live for a year, your landlock, what's in it for you. Why is it important, why is the blue economy in Africa important, even for you, who are tens or hundreds of miles inland. So a minute or less will reach of you please. It's a challenging question. Because the blue economy is also rivers and lakes. And, and, and, and from the rivers and the lakes that are great source, great resources, we need, we need to, to engage the, the stakeholders at that level, because not only is there a message for them to take care of, of those water basins. It also tells us that if you mess up uphill, you're going to pick up the consequences downhill. And this, this is absolutely, absolutely critical. We've seen that I mean look at the, those of you who know Madagascar well. Look at the, look at the color of the Sierra Madagascar. It's, it's, it's all, it's, it's all because those upstream have been messing up and, and I've been cutting down the forest and now the blue, it's no longer blue, blue economy. I shouldn't be laughing, but it's no longer a blue economy. It's, it's more a red economy because of the, of the, of the, the change of color of the sea because of deforestation and, and solid erosion. So, the blue economy is not just the sea. It's everything that leads to the sea. And, and even in small countries like a small island states like Seychelles, we need to, we need to be, to keep educating our citizens to, to the protection of the, of the watersheds of the, of the hillside. It's one world. It's one world. It's, it's one ocean, of course, but it's one world and then, and all those which are interconnected so I'm becoming a little bit philosophical now I, but, but I really feel that the message should be, should be, should be a wide one should be, we can't do it on our own. Of course, the coastal populations that are, that are the only ones responsible for the protection of the coastal environment, it's, it's every one of us. It's every one of us it's, and it's, and it's also the, the, the person from, from Switzerland, the tourists from Switzerland that comes to Seychelles, or the tourists from Luxembourg, which are land law countries to understand the dynamics of the, of the ocean. And finally, finally, the, the climate change is often we forget that it's in the ocean that we feel that we feel the greatest impact. Nowadays it's, it's, it's not, it's not, it's not climate in terms of just, of just global warming it's, it's the effect that it has on the ocean so, so it's one world. And that's why that's how I would answer your question, we need to, we need, like a jigsaw, all the pieces need to fit in together. Thank you very much. I certainly agree with this. Anyone else want to have a brief brief. Thanks, Donald. The, I absolutely agree with your comments minister that those are really critical sort of areas what where where the, you know, the boundary between land and see, you know, it's, it's porous, and what happens on one side of the boundary really affects the other. And there's integration of ocean atmosphere and land you know through the climate system that's absolutely critical. One other thing I would add to that is the law of the sea the UN Convention on the law of the sea recognizes the need of landlock states for access to the ocean. And so, you know, that because because more than 80% of global trade goes goes by see you know so so so everybody needs sort of the access to the ocean and is reliant on the ocean to some degree. And so we see things that such as the cooperation between Botswana and Namibia about, you know, ensuring that, you know, that there is that access to the ocean and blue corridors and ability to engage in the blue economy for the landlock states.  We need to work towards achieving that. Thank you, Nick. Thanks very much. We're running quickly out of time. I want to apologize for the participants to his questions we haven't had a chance to get to we've had about I think 30 or 40 questions. So, I'm sorry for that. I didn't want to turn it back over to Lisa now to see if any other panel members have some closing thoughts for you end up in about five minutes. Thank you very much, Donald, and thank you everyone for what was a very exhilarating discussion. I was particularly struck by how we were reminded, if you want, of the core importance of the blue economy for all of humanity and the coral that Africa plays in this context and the interconnected nature of our one blue planet. And I think in that context I was also reminded of the core importance of financing in supporting this crucial resource for all of us, and, and the need for coordination across various agencies across different levels of state from the local to the regional and the international, and in particular the core importance of concessional finance to support what is a core resource for all of us and not only for those local communities immediately affected by the very fast degradation of our blue planet. So, so I want to thank the panel members for their emphasis on these various interconnections from the way in which we had the continuous emphasis on the important articulations between the local the national the regional and the international, as well as the articulations not just across different levels of state, but also across different levels or spheres of the economy so it is not just about what we understand to be the blue economy, but this articulates very crucially with other parts of the economies whether we're talking tourism, whether we're talking transport whether we're talking industries, whether we're talking natural gas, etc. So, so I think yes.  And in that importance we need those bottom up approaches to inform what we do. And while we do so let's not forget that what happens in these bottom up approaches is going to be mattering for all of us, even if we may consider ourselves very far away for instance, from the Asianian waters. So, so I think it was wonderful in the way in which it allowed at least me to reflect on those various interconnections and articulations across and just to remind me and perhaps hopefully everyone else of really the core. What is at stake and that it is really upon all of us to advocate for mobilization of resource for the issues to be addressed with with massive urgency. So that's for me, I want to thank everyone for their tremendous participation and contributions here and I'll quickly hand over to my co hosts if they want to add a few closing comments. Sorry. Thank you Lisa. Sorry, if I jump in very quickly. I agree with all you said I was particularly struck by some of the evidence that both Minister Ferrari and Nick. I think that was a very well demonstrated. Policies are fine policies are necessary but policies are not sufficient. And it is the kind of practical example of how you can go about protecting these marine protected areas. What are the mechanisms what are the resources that you need to do it. And the specific projects that Nick highlighted. These are examples of action in practice, including local with local communities. That's what carried weight. And I think it's very important that we can see these things can be done. And to demonstrate how you can go about it, there are models there is best practice to follow, and we need to consolidate that and in somewhere like Tanzania. And these practical implementations in place, and that applies across the whole of the coastal Africa, but that was really very illuminating and I think highlighted the imperative need to press ahead with this practical implementation. Thanks to everybody involved, particularly Donald whose inspiration this was to hold this and whose book underpins a lot of the research that you've been hearing about. Without your efforts Donald, this would not have taken place and the blue economy would not be as on the agenda, as I hope it now is. Thank you. Thank you. Yeah, maybe if I could take this opportunity to give a quick last word, and I think I send and Nick have summarized very well, but just one sentence I'd like to add is that basically the financing of the blue economy has come up as a very significant dimension that needs to look at both from the government side from the governments from the private sector from you know donors. I think actually the recent developments in financial technologies and fintech provide some way forward and I think we researchers should just get extremely busy and look at how a financing innovative financing can be used to support this sector. I know that Peter already talked by starting the blue bond, but now financial technologies have made it quite possible to have different permutations and to involve different stakeholders to get financing make made much more easier, and we shall be looking into that very well. Thank you. Thank you. For me, it's been it's definitely a great opportunity for Barry to have been co hosting this event so thank you to the other co hosts. It's clear that we can improve alliances and collaborations across the continent, and in this way purposefully advanced our sustainable development through knowledge sharing transformative leadership and partnerships among other men. And I personally wish to thank the Honorable Minister Jean-François Ferraris for supporting the work of Barry and the University and for accepting to participate today. Also, thank you to Dr. Peter Larose. To me as a social wire the presence of those two people speaks on the enthusiasm, the support and the buying of the policy and decision makers, and how collaboration across disciplines and expertise is so invaluable. I also want to thank the other members of the panel so Dr. Nicholas and Professor Francis Thank you. I'm very encouraged by the presentations here and we look forward to future engagement. As we continue to define avenues for better collaboration so thank you very much. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. I appreciate very much. Yeah, thank you so much. Thank you. It's been a real pleasure. And can I then perhaps close with the final thanks to Donald Sparks who has been the, the person who allowed this to be possible, and who very skillfully moderated the entire session. But it was, thank you. It was an entire pleasure working with everyone here. I'm very grateful for your, for your help. It's a wonderful presentation. Thank you.