Hey everyone, how's it going? It's your boy Vidoe Vids in the pub today, and I am with none other than Jaron Brook Thank you Jaron for coming on, really appreciate that, Jaron is the Chair of the board of the Ayn Rand Institute and the host of the Jaron Brook show. Jaron Brook I've been watching your stuff on YouTube. I've read your book on audible, which is available by the way And to say that you are a someone who promotes the free market would be an understatement You are I would say the most purest form of capitalist or free market advocate There is and that's why I want to speak to you because I myself Consider myself a libertarian and I know you've got some issues with that word and maybe we can explore Explore explore that later on but you are someone who advocates for the philosophy of iron rand. Yes How would you describe iron rand philosophy in a nutshell? For those people who may not be familiar with iron rand Sure, first you have to understand that iron rand was indeed a philosopher. So this is a philosophy. It's not just a Political theory or an economic theory. It's actually deals with all the basic Foundations of all ideas and she has something to say Important and new I think to say in every field of philosophy in metaphysics Iron rand says reality is what it is Reality is not a function of your consciousness not a function of what you wish it to be what you want it to be Yeah, but it's also not a function of some other external consciousness, right? It's not a function of some God who dictates how reality and you know creates miracles It is what it is and it functions based on the law of causality A is a to quote Aristotle things are what they are and we as individuals have the tool to know that reality as It is and that tool is human reason we use our senses to discover get information about reality We can integrate that information and we can abstract from it But all human knowledge all human knowledge is a product of our reason There is emotions and our tools of cognition and there's no revelation We're not we don't commune with some other dimension whether it's you know in a platonic sense or religious sense We can't communicate another dimension and get truth from their truth is here and we can access it so only only individuals can reason and the whole the whole point of an individual's life is The pursuit of your own happiness the pursuit of your own Success as a human being to live your life for yourself. So she was an egoist In in morality so she believed you shouldn't sacrifice yourself to other people and sacrifice means here giving up a high value for low value making yourself worse off in the in the long run and You shouldn't ask other people to sacrifice for you You should live for yourself over the long run and the way to live for yourself Is to use your tool of cognition your tool of knowledge? So a couple of things that the word sacrifice I think this word has been Confused yes many times. So for example if I say I want a better body I'm gonna sacrifice eating a cake. Yeah, and someone think oh, that's a good thing Right. I'm gonna sacrifice a bad meal for a good one, but you're saying that's a misuse of the term Right. So clearly you said what you're really saying is the value of having a great body is greater than the value of the cake Okay, and I'm giving it so so you don't give You know the lots of examples of this, you know people say oh I sacrifice not going to the movies to stay home with my kids really Your kids are more valuable to you see once you do that then you you abandon the meaning of sacrifice Sacrifice is supposed to be painful sacrifice is supposed to set you backwards It's it's not supposed to make you better off. It's not a self-interested thing to do when you give up the cake That's clearly in yourself interest to give up the cake. So But people conflate the term Because they don't want you to know what sacrifice really means. I mean when we use the term Sacrificial lamb who actually in reality wants to be a sacrificial lamb like actually get slaughtered Yes, and that's at the end at the end sacrifices of our Jesus on the cross dying for other people since not for his own Maybe you deserve to die for your own sins for other people since now that the sacrifice Yeah, now, of course, you know, he gets resurrected and all that stuff But but the idea yeah of you have to give up something important to you for something less important or for nothing That is what morality according to the altruists is really about That's what's a noble amount for example giving up the cake to build your body. That's not nobody thinks in terms of morality I do Because I say what's it what's moral here is that you're taking care of yourself and that's more right the conventional morality says That's not morality morality is how you take care of other people morality is is is Sacrificing your body to take care of other people why he's spending so much time working out when you could be helping those people over there Who are starving and and dying? That's true morality. That's what makes you noble. That's what makes you a saint, right? So you go back to what you said earlier. You said human reason. This is how we find out. What is the truth? Yes, we should base our life towards every individual should be egoist So I'm gonna do what's best for me. Yes Would you recognize that out every not everyone can reason properly or have the tools to reason I either maybe they're not trained Maybe they were living a society where certain values are higher than other values, for example So can we really rely upon individuals to figure out for themselves? What is in their self-interest because we say self-interest what if so the question is this is everybody capable of reasoning? Yeah, and my view is absolutely yes It doesn't matter how intelligent we have the brain to you have we have with you know That's what makes us human what makes us human according to Aristotle where the rational animal, right? So we have the capability to reason and then it's incumbent upon you as an individual To break the chains that society puts you into to get educated now It's true that today our educational system is so bad They were not teaching kids to think for themselves were not teaching kids to reason and and surely in certain countries or in certain Errors when let's say the church or religion was dominant It was very hard for people to reason because in a sense they were brainwashed Even you know the Jesuits used to say give me a child by the age of five their mind, you know You know I brainwashed them completely and there's a sense in which that is true So yes in very oppressive cultures you could you could argue that it you know It's hard to blame the people of North Korea for not living their lives based on rationality because they can't right? They'd be killed if they did But most of us today luckily but certainly in the West living relatively free countries Education system is bad, but it's not so bad as it cripples your mind in a way that you cannot It's incumbent upon an individual to discover their own capability to reason to take care of themselves to discover Their values to break ties with the irrational to break ties with the past when it's a bad past To break ties with society when society is bad to break ties with politics when the politics is Is bad and to build an independent life for themselves to the extent okay, they did that the world around us makes it possible So key to iron-rands philosophy is objectivism Objectivism is the name of a philosophy is the name. Yes, but If you if I'm gonna decide what's best for me then surely that's subjective Like what's good for me may not be good subjectives a very dangerous word in a ultimately I think a tricky word right? What is subjective actually? Actually is whatever I feel like whatever, you know, what what is that? What is it reflected now suddenly individual your values are yours Subjective implies that whatever values you choose it's fine And I'm saying no taste of preference.  I want to I want to I want to you know steal Something it's good for me. And I'm I say no First there are certain principles Moral principles that are good for everybody What human beings human beings have a particular nature? So think of you as a biological being right? Clearly certain foods are good for you and certain foods are not that's why you're giving up the cake to build the body because you've identified scientifically Sugar is probably not consistent with me being healthy and being but let's assume that's true. Yeah, there's a science I'm saying the same as true of life To live you must do certain things or Human beings must do these things certain things are bad for you certain things are good for you How you apply them to you specifically is going to be individual not subjective but individual You will choose a different career than me But we both probably identify the career is important and that we both identify that we better take our career seriously If we want to be successful in life Taking your career seriously for example is a universal value It is a value that's required for a successful human life and is objective in that sense and I man Has three cardinal values, you know values that I think that every human being is necessary reason If you don't use reason if you don't use your mind, you're gonna screw up your life It doesn't matter Where when you're gonna you're gonna screw up your life So reason is universal all human beings have a capacity and people who live in societies where they're not allowed to use their The reason their lives are screwed up. It's a main reason their lives are screwed Reason purpose you have to have a purpose in life You have to have a goal you have to you have to know what you want You have to integrate your life around what you want most of us integrate our life around Korea What a career that we want to do career family for most people Well, you know, nobody really integrates their life around family Maybe some some women do particularly more traditional into more traditional families But the fact is that that family requires a sudden effort usually from Parents during 18 years when the kids are growing up, but you can't sustain a whole life around family Right, you can't sustain it from beginning to end at the very least You need a good hobby on the side in order to keep your interest and your intellect and your reason going And I think most people who say I care most about their family when you ask them Well, do you spend more time with your family or do you spend more time at work? You somebody discover that they their preference based on how much time they spend is for work and not for family So reason purpose and a third one is self-esteem You have to have this sense that you belong in this planet Your happiness is dependent on it and you have to seek that out You have to seek out self-esteem and self-esteem comes from the achievement of values the achievement of success Rational success. So those are the values that I think are universal and then the question is how do you get those values? I was just going to ask the first one reason that's pretty I mean self-explanatory, but purpose Meaning all these types of words. They can get a bit fuzzy sometimes for some people And this is where you see the Jordan Peterson of the world coming in and they step in and they Amaze people and rule people with this guy's and this is why Jordan Peterson is so successful And the one of the reasons he's so successful he's successful for many reasons one of them is People have a need for meaning. I let before the word purpose but people have a need for purpose And he provides them with guidance on how to get one now. I don't think his guidance is always good I don't think his guidance is always the right guidance Because I think he's he's got some philosophical Errors In his system But the need for meaning and purpose is unquestionable. All of us have it and that's why religion is so successful It's why Jordan Peterson is so successful. It's why people are so influenced when they read iron rand It's not it's not the detail. It's this idea first and foremost You know, she provides you with guidance towards a purpose And and look none of them are contradictory You need to use reason in order to discover your purpose and you need to use reason in order to attain your purpose But you need a purpose you need life is too too many things going on It's too you need something to integrate at all. You need a direction to your life, right?  You love communication That's that's the thing you do and you can shift purposes over time It doesn't have to be one for your whole life But you need an integrating and self-esteem is just it is we need In order to be successful in life, right? Everything is dependent on this idea in order to survive and succeed at living We need to feel like we belong in this life We need to feel like this is our home and and that comes from this sense of confidence and sense of Yeah, this earth is mine, right? This is this is good. I I can handle this world. I can I can make my I can be successful here and of course To actually achieve this you need virtues that are actions that lead to those values And I in random identify seven, you know other philosophers might be can you know identify six nine Doesn't the point is the focus here is what does it take to be successful in life?   No There's a certain path to happiness and that and you you can't even say you can do whatever you like and survive Human beings can't survive even a hundred thousand years ago Without reason they just I mean I don't know about you, but I do not have the gene for hunting Right Nobody does. Yeah How do we hunt if you put a human being? And a sabertooth tiger one on one one on one who wins game over game over, right? But the fact is last sabertooth tiger I saw was in a museum Yeah, and look that I don't know eight billion human beings. How do we win that battle? Because we build weapons We forget our strategy We figured out how to beat the sabertooth tiger if you ask a human being to hunt a bison I mean how am I gonna hunt a bison? It's like this massive thing and he runs for the truck. Yeah, we build traps We have weapons. We strategize we work in teams All of those things require reason they require ingenuity so The very act of survival for human being requires certain principles and you cannot evade those principles And to an extent that you do You die, okay, so this is slow death, but you die. So this is One of the last questions on this on this other subject Do you think I mean the same way we look at Communists and say this is utopia. You have this unbelievable trust that the government will Provide you with everything and everything with peace and hunky-dory. Do you think the same way It's utopian for iron ran to think everyone if they only acted for the reason or if we were to create society And then overnight if everyone acts with reason everyone's gonna be Better off and What birds will be chirping birds will be chirping. That is true.    So Christianity and most moral codes There's morality and there's practicality and the two do not match up. You can either be moral or you can be practical You can either make money or you can be moral. You can't do both. I mean really well I mean many Christian preachers in America. Well, they they pretend right because they love making money so much that they Distort the Christianity to fit that but but really, you know, mother Teresa Who's the saint and they're not who is a saint? You know, she was poor and she suffered and she struggled and she was unhappy and she made other people Well, she tried to help the claim is she tried to help people what she did or not is an open question And she's the saint why because she suffered if she had made millions if she was driving Rolls Royce while helping other people Then she wouldn't like Bill Gates right now is helping more people than other traits that ever did with his philanthropy He's not going to be a saint because he's enjoying himself and he's rich So practical and moral are separate with objectivism The practical is the moral and the moral is the practical. Why? Because the way morality was derived inductively From experience So rayon says she could have never developed a morality 300 years ago It had to be in the 20th century. Why is that because she had to see the industrial evolution She had to see people apply their reason to the problem of human survival on a massive scale If you go back to Aristotle to a large extent for Aristotle reason is interesting It's a mind game. It's something you do But it's an end in itself The industrial evolution proves that science thinking reason On end to human flushing on end to the material problems of the human beings engage in and when we apply our minds We can create anything we can you know, we can create this abundance with which we live And you need a proof of that in reality. So objectivism is derived from reality. It's derived you know Inductively from the facts of reality and it's consistent with what works in reality And if I had if there was a virtue and somebody could show me that that virtue it didn't work in reality It actually led you to be miserable pathetic to die ultimately And I'd say then it's not a virtue that we made a mistake when you cross that off and have a different virtue Okay, can someone be an objectivist and disagree with iron land or is she the standard? Well, it depends what you mean by You know disagree with iron land So objectivism is her philosophy It's what she wrote down philosophically And if you disagree with her philosophy you can disagree with application You disagree with a particular issue But if you disagree with her on the philosophy then no, you're not an objectivist, but why do you care? Why do I care? Why does anybody care? All right, my view is You don't need to be an objectivist. I'm not here to convince anybody to be an objectivist I want you to convince you of the truth if it turns out iron land was wrong Then suddenly it let's change the stuff and but then it's not objectivism And that's what she wanted. She didn't want objectivism to become Whatever we thought the truth was in the future. She said look objectivism I created Since I won't be there in the future to evaluate whether I agree with you or not on what is right or what is wrong I want this to be called objectivism if you agree with the call yourself an objectivist If you don't say you influence my iron land you agree with a lot of iron land You built on iron land's work and you you're this new thing But don't call yourself an objectivist unless you agree with her on the philosophy Now you can disagree with her on psychology you can disagree with her on certain applications to politics or other things But my point is you know, I don't encourage people to call themselves objectivists, right?  Take a test. Do you care about the truth? That is very important to me. So we're friends with a communist if they said never never never I mean communism is sheer evil and anybody who is over 25 who is a communist is an evil person Because they are evading obvious truths Okay, but okay, but the same way they I mean they themselves might be Seeking the truth and at this moment in their life they think communism is a truth After over after over a hundred million people have died. It wasn't real communism There is no such thing at some point every regime that has ever tried this idea every regime that is approached trying this idea Every regime that is affiliated with this idea has led to nothing But death and destruction If you are evading that if you are pretending that doesn't exist You are doing what I'm doing and consider the essence of evil, which is evading the facts of reality You're not a truth seeker You are you you've got a theory and now you're gonna you're gonna distort reality to fit your theory But but there's there's nobody on the planet earth today over the age of you know, let's be generous 30 Who claims to be a communist who is an honest person? Nobody that's a big claim. Okay. So, but oh no, I think it's I think it's one of the easiest I mean, would you say the same thing if I if I said if somebody came to you and said i'm a nazi I'm seeking the truth. I'm experimenting. I'm figuring out everybody would be horrified. Why what's the difference?  He says no Hitler didn't practice it right You know, it wasn't real nazi.  They shouldn't they are nazis There is there is absolutely zero nazis.  That is very interesting Now would you be friends with a muslim christian jew because their ideologies arguably have caused a lot of damage as well So would you be friends with I mean it depends on how seriously they took their religion So if they were serious muslims serious christians serious jews, no Feminist Well, again, it depends what you mean by feminist and how seriously No, I couldn't be friends with a third wave I mean, what would be the basis? I believe friendship is one of the most important things in life I'm not friends with a lot of people You know and my friends I have to share values and if if if there's if there's no overlap of values If there's nothing we really share then, you know, what would be the point now if somebody was a moderate leftist If somebody was a moderate christian a moderate jew a moderate muslim, yes, I could imagine being friends with them But but but even then The friendship would be compartmentalized over certain things because clearly by being moderate in all those things They are compliments.  Your purpose might not be that but just them spending time But why would I even spend time with them?  I'll never have another moment So let's say for example, so if communist is watching this video good then maybe I'll convert him But but I'm not going to go out of my way to find him and if he comes to me I'm not going to make any effort to convert him. We're going to tell him his philosophy is the equivalent of the nazi philosophy It's evil. It's it's it's unthinkable. And how can he live with himself? Well, I appreciate that because I wonder why communists get such a free pass when they're death toll fast Well, you can ask me and I'll tell you. Okay. So before we get into that I want to So I want to test The your iron ran philosophy versus conservatism because it's one thing to say Communism sucks. Okay. That's pretty easy right for people like us. But what about conservatism? It's success.  We're serious who actually mean it. Well, what will they say it? They're willing to do away with 90 of the regulations that the government has imposed And they want to cut taxes dramatically potentially Yes, I mean conservative usually want to conserve and they want to conserve and they want to conserve the present They don't want to conserve a hundred years ago. They're not that that would take radicalism That would take revolution and they don't believe in revolution They want to conserve the present sure, but maybe 10 years, but my question is but they're wimps Okay, the wimps but my question is with with regards to conservatism There is this idea that this country or whatever country isn't just a piece of land Where we live it it means something right? Yes, it has a national history as a national pride And you are someone who advocates for free market So I'm assuming there'll be private schools for everyone And if they're private schools for everyone, there's not a national curriculum Where a conservative would be like, you know what this country us or uk These are our values. This is what we stand for whether you're an immigrant or a leftist rightist You have to believe in this What would be your answer to the conservative who wants to conserve that national pride or history whatever those core values How scary is that that some group of politicians are going to decide What the core values that are going to be taught my child are going to be I mean That's what's happening today in our educational system and it is really really really bad So you would leave it up to individual people And this is the problem But then you get the problem that you could get a very radical view of what a child's value should be And there there comes the indoctrination You know, you can you can be either you either believe in freedom or you don't believe in freedom And that it's it's essentially that if you believe in freedoms right In individuals right to to raise their own children to educate their own children Or communists want to as long as they don't use force the state has no role in intervening in their life And as long as they're not beating their children as long as they're not abusing their children They have a right to educate their children as they see fit Well, one could argue that abusing children is not simply physical Once you get into that then you know, maybe maybe by saying something that upsets you I'm abusing you and now the state should intervene. These are the arguments against free speech No, the role of the state is to protect us from physical harm not from mental harm Not from things we don't like or disagree. This is why I I'm against hate speech laws I'm against all restrictions on free speech because That becomes very dangerous and very subjective. What is speech that is okay and what it's not saying with children now I don't think it's a good idea to send your kid to a madras. I don't think it's a good idea to send your kid to an arian Buddy nazi school would be for that matter any any any school today run by the government that is not quite communist But on the way there, right? So so my my my view is that should be left completely apparent and look There is a challenge in the west And that is what is the nature of the state? What is the identity of the state? What makes a state a state? and and It's it's a real problem and it's it's it's a problem you're seeing particularly in europe And and and this is what makes I think the united states unique and where europe could learn from the united states United states is not a place that is defined by borders and it's not a place defined by history It's not a place defined by color of skin It's not a face a place defined even by religion the united states is a place defined by a couple of documents It's a place defined by ideas the ideas of Individual rights the ideas of liberty the ideas of freedom an idea of reason The idea of bring everything before reason that is at the base of the american declaration of independence and constitution Dispute I mean i know american history is Slave we can race them. I know people say that all the time But of course of course those things american american history has lots of warts and it has lots of problems in it It's not a perfect country by any means But it was founded on the right ideas even if they applied them badly The ideas at the founding were the right ideas and that's what defines american That's what makes america unique and what has made american history. I think unique america is by far The most the best country in human history and has contributed more to human life than any other country in human history In spite of its flaws and it has had flaws big ones slavery being the biggest before we get on to the best country in the world So for europe europe needs to define an identity And how do you do that? Yes. Well, so for example, let's take this country If I say british, I am british. Yes. So forget about color of skin. Forget about race. Yes What does british mean and we've had this conversation so many times over the last 10 15 years people say it's The parliament it's buckingham palates. It's the queen. It's the church.  Well, I think it does matter. I think I think who decides.  So the question to ask it's it's a question of how you approach it The question to ask is is is this? What is it? What is it about britain? Yeah, that is good What is it of being britain that is led to britain being successful? What is it about britain that we want to perpetuate? And it's not the church. It's certainly not the queen It's it's But it's it's it's it's what is it? It's the man. It's in my view. Okay, go. It's the magna cotta It's it's the you know, it's the it's a fight for individual rights. It's the abolition of slavery. It's it's sudden It's an industrial revolution. It's certain key elements. So what is britain about britain is the land Oh, and it's most importantly in my view most importantly by far. It's the scottish and british enlightenment It's the 18th century Which led to of course that makes it a slave. I mean, yes, Shakespeare has a role and you have to think about what about Shakespeare because Shakespeare is very mixed bag when it comes to when it comes to moral messages It's a mixed bag. But what about Shakespeare? You are you preserving it's a language. It's the drama. It's the beauty It's the intelligence. So what is it about what I would say? britain should become like america right the ideas the ideas of america are true ideas They are the good ideas for every country. Okay, okay britain has a particular spin on them that that is connected to john lark and into the into the into the enlightenment So what is britain britain is the like britain is the idea of reason individualism individual rights That is what i'm going to challenge that put my and of course it's it's it's yeah, go ahead Empire many people if you ask what about britain, they would say empire and People of my heritage park sign india or parts of africa or other places They say that we understand britain through empire And that's what made britain great great britain this arrogant thing. How could you say you're great britain? You've conquered over a third of the world wherever it is and then you have that would ask you well Two things i'd say to that one is its definition by non-essential that is not the essential of what made it The fact that britain could conquer third of the world you have to ask yourself what made it so powerful mechanism What made it so powerful? That's what's interesting not the fact that it conquered the fact that it conquered If you you know you could view as a negative, but if you view it as a negative then you have to ask yourself You know is it true that what britain did in all these colonies was on net Negative or was it on net positive now? I'm not justifying the empire a lot of the stuff down in the empire was horrific Just like in america. Yeah, I wouldn't justify slavery But you know is india better off or what's off for for for for for Pakistan possible For the railroads for the for the educational system the the the the british educational system But putting that aside that is not what's essential about britain now It's true as as a foreigner looking at britain. You might say that's how I know it But then you come here and you study the history and you study the ideas and you have to define britain not based on what The worst of it is that's not the essence of the place right it would be like saying well, germany's nazis that's it And nobody says that right no because it's politically incorrect to say well germans are nazis.  That's what they are But they do that for brit and they do that to americans. They do that.  It's collectivism. Everybody's a collectivist. Everybody's a collectivist today It's nationalism nationalism today is very popular It's racism. It's it's racism. Who's not a racist today? Many people. The left is a racist Right, the left has identity politics. It's full of racism outside of europe And and and but even in europe the left is racist and and the right is becoming more and more racist So if you actually break down what nazism is They don't disagree with it and and certainly if you break down what communism is they don't understand What is communism about collectivism? They love collectivism living for your neighbor Everybody thinks that's moral and that your duty is to live for your neighbor sacrifice I mean what did lenin says you have to break a few eggs to to to to make an omelette, right? So everybody believes that you have to break a few eggs to make an omelette So that's fine. So if you sacrifice a few individuals for the collective why is that and that's why They still love communism They don't have that the same negative association and they still love the fundamental ideas behind nazism And that's why these things can repeat themselves and they can keep coming back And why we have to be so vigilant and why the only alternative to them Is individualism and capitalism and as long as we don't fight for individualism This is why I was I reject conservatism because they're collectivists They're just moderate collectivists as compared to the boat of addicts. So just on the last point Then I want to move on to something else And let me just say I don't want to conserve anything. So I'm not a conservatist. I don't want to conserve I don't want to I want to conserve the good and I want to chuck the bad They're still conserving something, right? Well, no because if it's british, it's good, right? You know from their perspective, right? I want to take british history and say this is good. Okay. We'll keep that Shakespeare. This is bad The monarchy will kick that out, right? I mean what conservative would say let's kick out the monarchy, right? So I want to you know National health service awful. Let's kick it out. Uh, which no conservative would say You know, uh, oxford university good, but let's make sure the government doesn't intervene too much It's really a private institution, which is Less and less of the time Let's figure out john lock. Good Um, uh Mill half good half bad, right? So it's so you know, I want to discriminate. Yeah, what is good and what is bad? And let's keep all the good and that's british, right? That's what england represents. But again, this is the last point because I look over so much to cover I know this is a very interesting conversation so much cover But on deciding what is good and bad that again is subjective someone could say Disagree with you and say no, actually, I think mill is better than lock or I think absolutely not There's only one standard for deciding what is good and what is bad Is it pro human life? Or is it anti human life? And and at the end of the day, like I said, if you've got a crack a few Again, it's wrong. But if you've got a crack a few hundred million people died, that's anti human life If a million people died, that's anti human life So you could argue that british occupation of india because it resulted in I don't know famines or whatever was anti human life Fine, then it's bad and we kick it out But the standard is and we judge the history and we value is it good for human life? Now we can look at Shakespeare and say is Shakespeare good for human life? And I would say and this is ways You could conceivably see people argue because art is difficult But no Shakespeare is actually on the balance. Yes massive enhancing human life And you know the joy that you get from watching a Shakespeare play Overwools any other considerations and it's pro-human life. So yes, absolutely.  No, it's garbage It's splashing paint on a canvas is not art and contributes nothing to human life Now there I you know defining objective Standards for art is more difficult. But in most political issues, this is simple are people thriving are people getting rich Are people enjoying their lives? Are they dying of starvation? Or are they suffering in in concentration camps? So it's very easy in my view to look at history and say this is pro and this is against Okay. Now next question is open borders immigration is communism Uh, mr. Brook is an enemy of capitalism slash the free market. That's a question Whoever says that doesn't know what communism is. They have no conception of Of communism and they certainly have no conception of what capitalism. So can you explain to me? And this is again Coming back to the free market versus the conservative You know where you're thinking they are for borders limited immigration. You're saying no borders I'm a strong believer in borders and I'm a strong believer in in a nation state I don't think I think they're probably too many nation states So they're probably a lot fewer of them But I'm a strong believer in a nation state because you you need you need a body of law But then at the same time particularly the promagation. I'm very very very very promagation So, uh, how do you delineate that or how do you differentiate that from the conservative? Why are you pro and they are anti? Well, they're anti because For many reasons one because there's a there's a xenophobic streak in many conservatives that associate the nation Not with an idea not with the good parts of history, but with color of skin or heritage or genes Culture online Oh, but culture if you have a good culture you anybody will assimilate into that culture That's always true. I mean many people in this country have an assimilation Well, that's because you don't try to assimilate them and you keep telling them their culture Your culture is not good enough to to assimilate into the fact is that if if britain Was proud of its own culture and could define its culture. I mean you or as Leah said We can't even define the culture, but if we defined it properly And we had clear vision of what it actually was Then people would assimilate take the united states United states assimilation is happening all the time within two to three generations people are completely assimilated into the culture that was true of itallians and irish and jews of the 19th century And it's and it's true of mexicans and honduans and chinese today You know the most the people from my background poxpanese or indians that go to america are very different to the poxpanic That's because america has defined culture. It understands what it is or it used to i think that's fading It used to understand very clearly see a country that's free and a country that knows what it is is confident It's not afraid of new people right not afraid of new people coming in And and and being convinced that they are good So america has a melting pot where you bring your values in And you keep the good ones and you trash the bad ones and the problem in england today and the problem in america today And the rest of the world is we we dares We dare not say that there are bad values Right because of multiculturalism all values are equal.  You will go to jail.  It's fine. It's a recognition that we have values our values are superior to those other values That's why they're coming here not we're going there And that we need to assert those values not by using force But just by speaking up by asserting them by by by living by example and by telling people you want to live here fine, but fine, but this is so so people assimilate When when you have a clear set of values that you know what they are and you when you fight for those you can assimilate Something if you've defined it clearly otherwise What am I assimilating into and the reason america is a place where people assimilate more to and certainly Historically have assimilated easily. It's because it's much clearer. It's much more well-defined and expectations are obvious So let me ask so to me You know this cultural threat is not a threat. I I believe for example in american culture people come Will will you know will assimilate them that become americans? So, um This is a threat or a concern i've seen more on the right conservatives Whatever you want to call it if for example in 20 70 or 20 hundred let's say 80 years time nearly The vast majority of americans were of mexican descent 80 percent i'm just making up a number whatever i don't care. Would you you wouldn't care? Well, no What i would ask you is you know, what's What's the country like that is is it's a sort of free country is is the institutions Still are the institutions still the same institutions the language of government was spanish I think that would be a mistake Why well because i think that the to fully understand the founding documents of america They were written in english english as part of the country It's very easy to translate Languages are not equivalent, but the point is that that if now the language is spanish Then america's failed in assimilation and that's a bad sign, right? So to me it's not about the color of people's skin It's not about where they come from. It's not about the culture. They used to have What culture do they have today? And if they've adopted english and they and they love thomas jefferson and george washington And they've and they love the constitution and declaration of independence and they love a system of divided government you know of government of the division of of Of authority within the government that you know if they love the system of government in america And they love freedom and and they want to be left alone and they want to leave other people All of that was true and these guys were libertarians as hell or free market as hell I don't care what color skin they have but they spoke spanish Look at them if all of that were true, then i wouldn't care But but if but but that is so impossible to actually that wouldn't happen and and indeed You know, I don't care where you're free, right? So if you could establish in america in mexico if you could establish in america in brazil We've established the chongo in the congo. I don't care. I don't care Who are the people what I care about us? Isn't it all human freedom about the values and I don't care who adopts those values I want everybody to adopt those values, but if some people adopt it first, I don't care where they come from You know, that's again the tribalism the collectivism that Ultimately the the racism. Yeah that infuses our culture and and I think it's barbaric and I think We live in a 21st century. It's time to end it. It's time to get over it last point on this Many conservatives have said the way The libertarians or free free market people think it's unrealistic. They are talking about this in theory Yes, I don't care about color skin and this kind of stuff But in practice when these people come from different countries and these countries are less developed and More tribalistic and they are not afraid of asserting their values Right, even if those values are equal psych that if we libertarians or free market guys Oh, welcome come into our country whatever it is and these guys the way they treat their women or themselves or other people And then there's a racial element to it and there's a linguistic element to it And now certain streets or towns or cities have changed radically visibly And now the host or the native population is under threat. Yeah, so I'd say the conservatives need to need to Focus their energies on what matters And and focus their energies on what is it that makes Britain Britain? What is it that makes it great? You know focus their energies on defining The culture in asserting themselves in in changing the dialogue and not letting the left, you know Not accepting multiculturalism and fighting against it The battle is not They shouldn't be expending all this energy on building walls Instead they should expending the energy on defining A culture that they want to live under and and and the announcing From the top of every tower and from every other tower in the land the mounting multiculturalism But look it's it's it's more than that You know the state has only one role in my view and that is the protection of individual rights You can't protect individual rights of some by violating the rights of others Right You can't protect rights if you're violating rights so By putting on borders by by putting up walls by putting up restraints against the innocent people and we can define what innocent means Right, and I don't think everybody should be allowed in you have to have some criteria But by creating by violating other people's rights, you're not protecting britain's You you you at the end of the day, you're creating a government that now has more power than it had before You're not going to be able to limit that power And that's what we've seen we've seen governments That are more statist more involved not just in the border, but in our health care in our economy and every aspect in every aspect of our life So so I want to shrink government back to the point where where it you know, it is You know in every government, I strongly believe that every government should be unique and have its own geographic area I'm not an anarchist Every one of those governments should have Should should be focused on protecting the individual rights and it should not be violating people's rights People have a right to cross the border.  What is it my business who spends time in your home? What is it my business and lastly a threat to me? It's not in my business now This is where the state needs to intervene the only place for the state to intervene when it comes to immigration Is to try to figure out if there's a threat now I am somewhat sympathetic to muslim immigration bans Because to the extent that we say we can't differentiate between the islamists the people want to kill us And and and the average yeah, you know average muslim who could assimilate To the extent that I can't differentiate. Okay, so no muslims.  You won't even born here. Yeah, you you you were born in pakistan. So so I mean, there's you're an example that it's it's it's not true that people don't assimilate they do assimilate And so so you want you want to separate a threat? So you want to be able to at the border you want to be able to to to eliminate Uh, anybody with an infectious disease obviously anybody who has a criminal background You know, particularly given the or is engaging criminal activity that you have What's that? Would you like common? Yes, I wouldn't judge people's ideas Um and really but I thought that was the whole thing if someone's like I would judge ideas But it's not the government's job to judge ideas now if we are at war with communism So during the during the cold war that's it then no, right? Because we're war. That's why I would exclude islamist right now I believe the west is at war with Certain elements within them as a world so you don't let you know during world war two you didn't let nazis in All right, so if there's a war you exclude the people who are on the other side But it's not war with communism communism's pathetic ideology that's dying and and you know, I'm not afraid of it It's not something you need to keep out because you're afraid of okay communism you mentioned communism Why are so many Atheists secular people why do they tend to be more on the left economically socialist communists to have a A soft spot for this ideology. Why if we can say god does not exist and we do not have to derive our morality from god Why do we then turn and say well now we need to derive our moral morality from governments and now government has become the god. No, I don't think that's the problem I think the issue is that Most secularists and you can see this in the new atheists Do not challenge Do not challenge the religious morality They've accepted religious morality. They just take away god But they've accepted the idea that is at the heart of christianity There's the purpose of your life is to serve other people I saw you made a connection between communism and christianity. Do you have some sort of communist or something like that? Yeah, well christianity. I mean I know a lot of republicans because there's we've been jumping out of this. How could you say Jesus is a communist that's crazy. Well, first of course he is.  What's important is what you do for other people And this is christian. This is a christian morality. This comes from christianity This is why we adore mother Teresa and hate bill gates even though bill gates has helped more poor people to mother Teresa I could even in my competition right But we love we adore mother Teresa in the culture Why because she sacrificed because she suffered because she gave because she didn't do anything for herself Self-interest is the devil. It's the evil according to you know at the end of the day according to christianity What marks did is secularized christianity. What mark did is saying you're right Your life is meaningless or you should sacrifice to that group But it's it's not God you should sacrifice you should sacrifice purely to your fellow man And your fellow man is equal to you and every so what So the change is the christianity does is it changes God to the proletariat instead of It even has yeah, and it marks is I mean even even even they even have their own pope, right? So so in christianity you as an individual don't know the truth You have to go through a pope in order to reveal truth, right? Well in in communism, it's exactly the same you as a member of the proletarian don't know what's good for the proletarian So you need a dictator right and the in the dictator is the pope He's the one who communes with the spirit of the proletarian And then communicates to you what's good for the proletarian your life doesn't matter What matters is the proletarian and you need to do whatever it takes to make the proletarian better off Including die if that's if that's what it means, right? And and this is the point of all moral systems that exist today except objectivism really, right? Your life doesn't matter as an individual what matters is the life of the group of God And and therefore communism is palatable. What's wrong with communism?  We can't challenge it And that's what I don't know. Is she challenges it for the first time? Okay I find your views on foreign policy and war probably the most controversial And they're just they're just direct consequences of my views on everything else. So could I quote you? I think this is a a nearby quote. You can tell me if I'm wrong Where's he gone? I don't have lost a quote But you said that when you were fighting In a war this whole just war theory you are completely against the absolute and you said that if we need to Again correct me if I'm wrong if we need to kill innocent civilians In the process then so be it. We should not limit our military Action because some innocent civilians die. We need to crush our enemy at all costs. Yes.  Is it my fault or is it his fault? It's clearly Molley his responsibility for initiating force And the same thing is for a government if a government initiates force against me Then the only responsibility that's in the american government the only responsibility of the american government in defending itself Is to defend itself in what does it mean to defend itself to defend the lives and property of americans?  It would be complete altruism a complete negation of self-interest to say So i'm not going to harm those people because the women and children or whatever But i'm going to sacrifice 10 of my troops in order not to harm them. Why? My only job as a government is to protect my troops. So let me uh counter that with an example So let's say me and you get into a boxing match Yeah, right you go for gloves and then out of nowhere you kick me Yeah, that's not in the rules of boxing. Yeah, so i'm saying the same way there's a war Yes, you have to defend yourself throughout war, but there are certain rules even within the war that A military should not, you know, break that to me is insanity so I mean War is about what is war? What's about destruction and killing? What rules? What are you talking about? There's no rules. There's no absolute zero rules. Nuclear chemical kids children Bombing a church for example. I'm advocating for killing children But absolutely you do. I mean there's only one principle in war win quickly With minimal casualties to your own side. I mean, I consider Hiroshima Nagasaki Two new dropping in the nuclear bombs heroic acts of chumo. They saved hundreds of thousands of american lives Probably saved millions of japanese lives, but chuman Well, because it prevented an invasion of japan, right japan collapsed and and surrendered and was all over I mean So ideally one swift blow and game over as opposed to a prolonged Absolutely If you know and I would bet you that most of the wars that exist today from from the prolonged wars like vietnam or even the iraq and afghanistan If they had gone in and crushed the enemy and made a statement We will crush you. We will do whatever's necessary to pacify you. We will not now. I'm not advocating for those wars I think the world mistaken wars But if you go to war then that's what you should you have to win and you have to win quickly Look how many hundreds of thousands of iraqis have died Well, I'll think over a million actually of iraqis have died because of this prolonged Imagine if on day one they killed them. I mean, I'm not advocating for this just to be clear Imagine if the day one they would have killed a million iraqis The war would have ended iraqis would not want to wanted to fight nobody would want to touch the americans They would petrify and it would be over But you would everybody would say that is the most horrific act in all of human history Well a million have died more than a minute one hour and then it's over over a long period of time nobody cares nobody cares But if it didn't mean in one day, everybody would have cared as if time matters But surely that's the Magnitude, I mean the the magnitude of the attack and the sort of indiscriminate.   So so so many people Now again assuming the war is a war of self-defense.  So not in executing the war Yeah, so many people who watch my channel are from a Middle Eastern background Muslim background and They may have sympathy with sort of like Objectivism skepticism atheism all the rest of it. But if I want to sell them the American dream They're like well what America has done in the Middle East To turn it upside down and intervention there oil here oil there funding one group against another Sure, I'm not gonna defend America I'm not gonna defend America's policy in the Middle East But the Middle East was messed up and screwed up. I was there. It's well before America showed up. No, I completely agree But has it helped? Yeah, I think it's I think life in certain countries in the Middle East is better because of American intervention But overall no America's done a disaster job. Why is it done a disaster job because it appeases everybody It it it doesn't assert itself. It doesn't assert value. I think why is America many times? Never Never never never asserted itself. I give you an example. Okay, so you're going to Iraq. Yeah, you can't you take Iraq And now what would it mean to assert yourself in Iraq? What means assert itself is like what we asserted ourselves in japan You know who wrote the japanese constitution that they still live by General macArthur He literally sat down if the japanese wrote a constitution. He looked and he said this is crap and he shredded it He sat down at his desk with this assistant This is a true story and he wrote a constitution and he said this is what you're going to live by This is your constitution What did the americans do in iraq?  You don't have a right to violate other people's rights I don't care what your own country are not You know, you would you say oh americans had a right to slavery was their own country So they'd slave some people who cares no and and now that is true of slavery, but it's also true of of Of laws, let's say that discriminate against chiites or discriminates against sunnis or discriminating against women or discriminate against Atheists is it okay to discriminate against atheists or discriminate against christians? No, none of those things are right and even if you vote for them, they're not right Even if the entire country thinks they're right. They're not right. This is why there is such thing as objective truth You want a successful country? There's a formula It's called the declaration of independence of the united states of america It's called the american constitution. These are formulas not perfect You could rewrite them, but that's the formula. That's a general formula If you walk wants to be a successful country You got to adopt the declaration of independence and the constitution in spirit If not in in in exactness and that is true of every middle eastern country to the extent that they don't do that They will be disasters And even if people like the disaster they don't have a right to have the disaster They don't have a right to discriminate against the individuals who reject it What about the atheists in Iraq who don't want this constitution because it's all about religion. It's all about sharia Okay, fair enough. That's interesting. But that i'm saying is very hot don't have rights Individuals have rights and the only purpose of government is to protect those rights into the extent that america goes into a country The only purpose of going into that country should be should be to bring them freedom So do you think and and by letting the uakis write their own constitution They didn't allow them to establish freedom.  Today or whenever What difference does that make? I mean you said time doesn't make a difference, right? So I would do I would do I would do two things. So, you know, so this is Where a lot of people hate my guts Um, I believe with war, you know have been a war Um with with islamism Um, jihadism or whatever you want to call it since then he's 79 Exactly 30 years ago 30 years or 40 years ago. Yeah, can't do math anymore 40 years ago Um, when uh, when the american embassy was taken which is an active war and when I think the islamist movements in its Current form was really launched. I mean it is supposed to brotherhood that goes even further to the 1920s And there's Wahhabism that goes back to the 18th century But in its want to form the islamist movement was really formed in in 1979 even the even the sunnis um Were inspired by the iranian revolution. So now to me Iran is the key country Iran is Saudi Arabia the two countries that fund all the terrorism Whether they do it as government policy or whether they do through charities or whether they do it through other ways The other countries that do it. So in my view america has to take care of business Uh first and then withdraw from the middle east Not just from the middle east by the way the the american troops in 120 different countries I would withdraw them from south korea. South korea is a rich country. They can defend themselves I would withdraw them from japan let japan defend itself. I would just draw them from everywhere. Germany as well Certainly, absolutely. I you know who they're defending against the russians let the germans fight the russians americans shouldn't have to fight the russians so I would withdraw american troops from all these countries But before I do that, this is where you know to libertarians all agree which will But I believe before that you have to take care of business take care business means two regime changes in Saudi Arabia and in iran now In iran, it's more difficult because the regime there's more entrenched So you might have to use military forces to have a nuclear weapon that they develop in as well Another reason to change the regime there and to make clear that that to that regime The new regime that comes about that they better behave themselves.  This is the sort of american policeman and this is sure. No, it's not policeman if you don't if you if if if if If these countries attack each other if you want fights with iraq america should stay out of it If if pakistan and india want to get at it america should stay out of it Even if it's a nuclear and it could affect Well, if it affects americans citizens american american property if it has then america should get involved But the wall of america is not to be the policeman of though See, you want them to be a policeman of the world when it's convenient for you And you don't want them to be policeman of the world when it's not convenient for you That's what conservatives and everybody else right I don't want them to be policemen of the world except in one sense They need to protect so the united states should have this the fleets in the arabian sea and all around that reason to protect the The the the shipping lanes so that they can get the oil and that they can they can you know trade International trade to continue that is a crucial role for the american military to practice And it's it's a part of their individual rights of americans to be able to trade with whoever they want They need to replace the regime in iran and they need to replace the regime in saudi arabia The fact that we are allies of a king is disgusting and despicable We shouldn't have an embassy in saudi arabia. We should have nothing to do with the kingdom of saudi arabia And would you wipe them out? Wouldn't wipe them out.  They have nothing. They have oil. So all you have to do is say We're not going to protect you anymore And the Saudis would shudder, right? So all you have to do there is challenge them and let them know that you will not tolerate You know when the Saudis and the iranians or the rest of us stole the oil They stole it from western oil companies But isn't there a country? I mean is this there is there is no such thing as their country In that sense, but the same way when you attack america, we're attacking the america like the country of america America is specific people with specific property rights Whose property rights? Whose property rights were violated by all companies in saudi arabia? Give me the name of the person. I don't know their names. Yeah, it was the king. Kings don't have property rights Kings do not have property rights kings are an abomination There is no the king doesn't have property rights So if if there's a land in saudi arabia that nobody owns and I discover oil on that Who's oil in texas if you discover oil in texas on your land whose oil is it? americas It's your America's i'm going texas In any way if I discover oil in my property in california in porto rico now I live in porto rico if I discover oil in my property. It's my oil If if if if you have a property in saudi arabia, you discover oil It's like the kings it's like the saudi states oil. That's communism for the guy who accused me of communism. No Capitalism is about private property if I want to invite people onto my private property. This goes back to immigration It's my business. It's not the state's business who I invite to my property and if I discover oil in my property It's my property. It's none of the state's business what I do with that That is private property. That's what capitalism means. So there is no such thing as american oil There's no such thing as american jobs. There's no such thing as american anything There's individual americans own things the job of the american state is to protect those property rights It's protect my way to bring in as many mexicans. I want to live on my land as I want It's to protect my right to the oil that I have in the land so nobody can steal it and see it It's not their oil. It's my oil and the state has so the same thing in in saudi arabia when american oil companies discovered oil in saudi arabia and it was their oil And then the saudi stole it from them So the king stole it from them. That's when america should have intervened and said no, you can't steal our people's stuff Very interesting very interesting speaking of oil and land The environment Okay, this has been something we should be going around for some time now Gretta sunberg the environment is going to die And okay, okay, this is where I do I am concerned. Okay, because I'm a big fan of wildlife I I want this earth to prosper, you know, we talk about self-interest. Why do you want the earth to prosper exactly? So the air we breathe the water that we drink I say you want human beings to prosper Yeah, and that is what you want. Do you want the earth to prosper? You have to decide human beings? The our existence is intrinsically tired. Maybe but who do you care about you care about the earth The earth or do you care about human beings? Or both Oh, no, I want you to choose. See, I only care about one. I don't care about the earth I care about human beings and to the extent that human beings need those then I care about those Okay, so yes, the primary is human beings. Primaries you agree with we have to take care of our own interests So let's we start with that the primaries human beings So then we get on to pollution whether it's in the water whether it's in the air How if we're going to advocate for a free market society, how on earth are we going to Protect the environment to the extent that our lives are benefited. So you have to start with facts, right? Okay, the fact is global warming do believe in the global warming climate change the cycle of warming a second the fact is That the human environment today is the best it's ever been in all of human history That's amazing. You literally breathe the cleanest air you've ever breathed It's cleaner than in the little village in Pakistan where they were burning wood and where the cooking stove inside the house Was polluting the air that because of the fact that we're burning carbon fuels and we have electricity And we have all these things that make it possible for us to breathe unbelievably good air inside our homes I have a little thing in my home that actually gives me the quality of the air in my home And it's pretty cool. It's pretty amazing, right? You drink the The cleanest water we've ever drunk in all of human history. The water was so bad that they had they were drinking beer Because the water was so bad. Exactly and and the Thames River used to smell so bad It used to stink, right? But northern europeans drink beer because the water was so bad Chinese why did they drink tea? Why did they invent tea? It forced them to boil the water amazing to kill the bacteria amazing So we it's we live longer healthier easier Lives as human beings then ever in all of human history Fewer people die today of weather events Then ever weather then ever in human history because of industrialization All of this the cleanliness we experience today is all a consequence of industrialization. We have What do you call it uh hoovers? You know they clean our carpets. Yeah. Yeah, vacuum. Yeah vacuum cleans. We have robots who do it. Yeah I don't know if you've seen the robot. Yeah, I've seen that. You don't even have to pull them It's cool, right? You can clean we have amazing technology to air conditioning our filters You can have filtering systems within like for example your office your house where I go outside It is amazing. Well, it's compared to London in the 19th century. We had So let's go over the place sort of India or like China or Bangladesh. Yes poverty stinks Quite literally poverty stinks in every aspect of it. And how do you become rich by burning That by by using the cheapest most efficient form of energy, which today's carbon fuels Maybe one day will be nuclear but today's carbon fuel in order to get rich so you can clean up the mess The only way to clean our environment the only way to clean human environment If you care about little worms if you care about spotted owls, I can't help you But if you care about human beings the only way to clean up Human environment is to get rich Rich countries are clean not because the environmentalist movement But because rich people want to clean environment. So they do things that make it clean so including passing laws prohibiting polluting of those Bounds that actually hurt our health. Okay. So this is interesting you that you mentioned that Because the free market would say to the companies you can basically there's there's no regulation, of course the protective of property rights and so forth But when it comes to pollute like if a company is releasing all these gases Yeah So if the gases are clearly hurtful to your life and you can show it in a court of law Then you would see a lot of money and that takes a long time in the process They could still be guzzling these gases and okay, but life expectancy still like what for your generation well into your 80s Maybe into your 90s Well, you know, so you know, you're losing one year But the fact that there's industrialization has made it possible for you to live in your 80s. Remember Just 150 years ago your life expectancy was under 40 So same this whole global climate thing is number one Well, let's wait wait for climate. We'll get to climate. Whatever you want to call it climate change global warming Because I know it's like no look two different issues. There's pollution and there's climate change Climate change Pollution is if somebody's peering out a chemical that hurts me. I sue them. I take it a court We try it if I can prove that what they've done is hurtful to me Then they get a pay a big fine And then the government can pass a law once it's proved that says that chemical is bad for human life We're excluding it now take climate change Now let's make some big assumptions go for There really is climate change And it's human cost I consider those big assumptions because I'm not convinced That it's human cost Climate changes all the time. So the fact that this climate change is undisputable The fact that it's human cost is I think still questionable, but let's assume it's true The primary question everybody has to ask is so what? So it gets hot warmer So, you know what what what the primary cost for britain is? You're gonna have to invest in air conditioning Because it's gonna get hot And by the way, you should have air conditioning anyway because it gets hot anyway sometimes in the summer And it would be much more convenient for human life if you had air conditioning So this will be an impetus to improve british life by buying air conditioning. Okay, so that's serious That's that's a massive Tell me what the damage of Britain getting a little warmer is going to be I personally don't mind hot summers, but that's a very what about warmer winters right now? It's pretty cold outside. I enjoy warm. I mean I like to say canada would become habitable I don't I don't I don't understand how people live in canada today. It's way too cold for two human existence Okay, think about all the think about all the agricultural land that is Underneath the ice sheet in the canada that comes suddenly becomes Usable for human and and it's true Some people have to move out of the southwest in the united states because it's too damn hard and they can't live there No migrate to canada. Why is that such a terrible thing? So whether it's changed throughout human history, so if I were to give you the analogy So this so this whole earth is a house and it's fine the temperature of the house is slightly more habitable But the research of parts of the house that are have been so damaged that they are beyond repair Another reason I believe in open immigration let those people move to the parts of the house that are more habitable But then surely the house is getting smaller and smaller in terms of the habitat part. There's no science behind that That's complete BS. There's no science that says yeah that we're gonna boil this planet to such an extent That the whole planet is going to become inhabitable that just is untrue by the way And if it is true then to the extent that that is true then people investing a lot of money without government help In trying to solve the problem You know the primary problem if there is a problem to see a true mission is nuclear Something the greens reject which to me tells you everything you need to do know about this problem The only solution to the problem the only viable solution to the problem is something they reject Which means they don't want to solve the problem They're actually what's the underlying game for them? What's the what's the real destruction of destruction Of capitalism and human life because that's what it means to destroy capitalism means to destroy human life The only reason they eight billion people and plan it right now and they can eat is because of capitalism So it's like a side way to attack happens not through the main way that comes Absolutely, but it's more than to attack capitalism.  And by the way, who are the biggest victims? Africa Africa's going to be the biggest victim of the anti climate change Because af because africa could get rich What would it need to do what would it need in order to get rich cheap energy? But you're taking away the cheap energy now. You're saying you can't use fossil fuels That means africa stays poor Because you can there's no way they can afford solar energy There's no way they can afford wind energy and the wind and solar energy It's like a minimum wage on a yeah, it's a bit. It's a yeah It's like a minimum sitting in the middle of a jet a thousand bucks an hour You may be basically keeping a lot of people poor. Okay, and that's what that's what you're doing to africa now Notice that people like bill gates who believe in climate change are pouring billions of their own dollars into developing new technologies If the environmentalists really believed in climate change and really wanted to help human life They would be supporting efforts by bill gates and other people To promote nuclear instead. What is what is what is take germany, right? They're shutting down all their nuclear power plants They're literally shutting down on the nuclear power plant and building windmills and and and solar panels solar panels in Germany I've never seen a sunny day germany and then and then what happens is suddenly their production of electricity is going like this It's gone way down. So what do they do? They import natural gas and coal and they reignite old power power plants and their CO2 emissions are going up Because they shut down nuclear power Now I can understand a green who comes to me and says look I really believe this and I want to invest heavily in nuclear power because that's the only viable solution I respect somebody like that and I say, you know, maybe I'm willing to consider what you have to say But if you're coming to me and saying the only way to solve this problem is to get rid of fossil fuels You're not serious You don't really care. You're not pro-human growth and human success in human life one very last quick question on the environment You said spotted owl Tigers lions elephants rhinos These these animals are suffering because human beings are expanding. So I I'm a realist in the sense I understand there's a cost of human expansion and human beings living at the same time You like lions. I want lions and tigers and rhinos and owls Okay, let's get together with a lot of people who like them and buy some so The solution to private property like everything else the solution is private property There's an organization in the united states, which I respect they work, right? What they do is they raise money and they go buy forests They buy forests under the understanding that they will never use those forests It's a non-profit that wants to preserve forests the way they are fine Private property and you know what nobody cuts down their trees because it's private property and nobody's allowed to go there You know what that's that's a good that's a very good look at Africa the only place in Africa where Elephants are not endangered species or where elephants are being privatized There are certain areas in Kenya where the elephant population is being privatized You own this property and you know how you make a living off the elephants you sell You sell hunters licenses and you let the hunters shoot elephants But you have a strong self-interested economic capitalist profit-seeking in in interest not to let the elephants die out So you only allow x amount of hunting and you invest in security and protection to keep out poachers But that's what's got the most outrage in social media And yet that's the only thing reviving the population of elephants in Africa every place in Africa that is privatized their wildlife Has actually seen an increase in that wildlife and everywhere where the state is responsible for the wildlife And banning poaching the poachers get around it because the state won't invest enough resources But if it's my elephants then i'm gonna you're not shooting them I'm gonna have enough security around that you won't shoot them if you want to shoot them You have to pay me and then i'm only gonna let you shoot one because I have to preserve the species So the solution to all these animals going extinct is to privatize them because private property Is the only consistent form a prop it's the only form of property And it's the only thing consistent with human life and flourishing incentivize the protection and its flourish You know, I am an advocate for private property not because it incentivize the protection of elephants I'm in charge of private property because it's the only institution That is consistent with human life that is the only institution that's consistent with human Flourishing and human survival We as human beings need to own the stuff we produce Okay, and when we do so Look at history good things happen Okay, and that is applicable to elephants as well in lions and tigers We'll play a little game here on a scale of one to ten One being communist russia under starlin and ten being iron rand is free market society. Where do you place donald trump? So ten is iron rand and one is starlin Donald trump is such an enigma four four So, okay closer to communism Interesting brock obama Four, I don't think I don't think there's that big of a difference clinton reagan Reagan maybe five everybody else for four So who was the closest to iron rand and who was the closest to starlin american presidents? Closest iron rand would be i don't know grover cleveland Maybe coolage, maybe thomas jefferson and george washington the founding fathers obviously Well, I mean you'd have to have a long line of of of the r johnson And and and obama and and and trump they're the most stateless they trump also isn't that cat's good Yeah, he's a complete statist Calls up co's and tells them where they could put their factories and where they can't who they should fire and who they shouldn't fire I think that's a complete. He's a complete You know central planner and he believes in it. So he's deregulated a little bit He's got a little bit of taxes but government spending is like it's it's back to obama levels So it's back to the first obama administration second obama administration spending actually declined as a percent of gdp now we're Through the roof percent of gdp. So no in in in many respects trump is is a complete statist I mean the wall. I mean all of that is is I mean who built a wall The the soviets did to keep their population in Berlin wall has got yeah, but it's the same thing Right people have a right to go where they want to go as unless they're harming other people the state Has no wall in interfering in human movement unless that movement is a violation of rights and A mexican coming to america is not a violation of rights and america going to mexico is not a violation of rights Building walls is is is is disrupting that movement and that's wrong two last questions from social media I have a question for jaren does Objectivism have a marketing problem if objectivism is so inspiring Why aren't more people aware of it or inspired by it and that's by gs sing I don't think the problem is a marketing problem. Although if you have a better marketing solution, I'm I'm open to alternative marketing Mechanisms because when you say words like selfish Altruism is bad.  They're like this is but love and care is not revolutionary Love and care is like everybody. I agree. But I would say I would say that if you want to be a revolution Come join the real revolution is with only real revolutionaries. I that is true But I I would say that the left or communism socialism has a better better Yeah, we don't have a marketing problem. What we have Is two thousand years of really really really bad philosophy and religion problem So to overcome christian Judaism islam to overcome marks hagel kan't schopenhauer Every philosopher and human, you know before that Uh, is going to take a long time And the reason people, you know, if you'd said selfish to greek in ancient greece They would say well, of course. What else is there? Because that was the culture the culture was even played. Oh, who's very dictatorial He does it because he believes in individual how many individuals to pursue their self-interest. He just says, you know, you can't Completely do that for yourself because You know, you need a philosopher king to guide you But the purpose is not to sacrifice your life for the collective or for god The purpose is still to live for your life So so we went through a dramatic cultural shift with the rise of christianity And it's going to take a long time to recover from the damage done By the monotheistic religions primarily christianity and islam Judaism just has never attained enough political power to have a big impact or philosophical power So it's going to take a long time and it's You know, i'm not arguing that we couldn't do a better marketing job But the point but that's not going to solve the problem. So maybe if I was better at marketing I'd go from 16,000 subscribers to 100,000 subscribers But the better marketing is not going to change the world what needs to change the world is for people to actually be listen listen And and engage and engage and then well, of course Egoism makes sense. I mean, what else is there? Why should I live for you? So this is uh anybody other than me? I mean, does anybody really love their neighbor more than themselves or like themselves, right?  I I don't really think I love my neighbor Right. I like some of my neighbors. I might I respect their property rights, but I don't love my neighbors I mean and you don't need to it means the value of love But I love myself. I love my wife. I love my kids. I don't love my neighbors He's a heartless man Stop loving your neighbors, but you don't see see I'm the only one who actually says it Everybody thinks they they they think they should love their neighbors. Yeah, and what does that do? See, this is a this is the trick the christianian socialists Understand guilt is unbelievably powerful. Your mother probably understands this jewish mother certainly understand this, right? If you guilt people you can you can really use them So if you make everybody believe that they should love their neighbors, but they don't oh boy And if you'll shame them shame them exactly and then you come to them and say look You should really love your neighbors should really help them out. We know you don't but you know what? If I raise your taxes a little bit, we'll take your money and we'll help them And you go, oh good that way I get my we just my guilt and I get to not love my neighbors all at the same time Fantastic, and that's what the state does the state basically Uses guilt in order to expand its power guilt alleviating mechanism Yes, I mean the rich vote for higher taxes all the time I was gonna on themselves I was gonna ask because I'm not sure about time very quickly bill gates was like a bird warren buffet They are for higher taxes because they all feel guilty and and this is the altruism This is they they know they should care their fellow man as much philanthropy as they do they don't think it's enough And they don't want to do more philanthropy for a variety of reasons So it's easy for them to say the state should curse me into more philanthropy That's what taxes is and then I'll feel a little less contracting the morality thing You guys do with it what everybody does that's what the church has taught us That's the whole the whole idea of sin and catholic. You don't help him Okay, last question. Last week. I mean, this is the flying human beings according to christianian according to conventional morality We're all too selfish And that's the fundamental flaw. That's really the original sin, you know, uh, eve wanted knowledge How dare she want knowledge because remember she didn't eat from some random apple The apple she ate from Was the tree of knowledge. That's what god didn't want her to eat. He didn't want her to have knowledge, right?   So she takes a bite from the tree of knowledge That is the sin now. What is that so so Basically and and that's that's self-interested knowledge is self-interested So basically the original sin is yourself interested And now you have to spend your life In service of others or just an idea overcome that and since you can't overcome it since you're going to be selfish Anyway, then we have to penalize you by taxing you by regulating you by controlling you By by doing all these things to you in order to Compensate for that original sin, which is how day you think of yourself. Amazing. Last question Please do ask yarun about comparison between secular humanism And objectivism and why he believes objectivism is the best option for ex-muslims Also, please ask yarun if there are any upcoming efforts to translate objectivist literature Into language is spoken in muslim majority countries like ordu or arabic I believe that a lot of ex-muslims will find their lives enriched by an objectivism. That's by share roles. Yeah So, um, what's the first one? Secular humanism versus objectivism. So secular humanism was a certain development in the field of ideas um as the world transitioned away from um The dark ages the middle ages and from the dominance of christianity and christian dogma So secular humanism comes around in the renaissance as they're discovering greek ideas secular ideas pagan ideas But really discover rediscovering philosophy And they're trying to integrate it and they're trying to they're trying to figure out what makes sense But they they don't have a solution to the moral question To what is goodness? What is ethics? What is right? What is justice? So they basically what they do and this is what iq's marks of doing, but really everybody does it They secularize christianity They take the basic premise of christian moral view the basic Commandments the basic ideas of christian and they turn it into something secular So they can only go so far in my view with that because that's a dead end Because the the in the way to crush that is to say somebody says you should live other people It's to ask them why?    Yeah, yeah I at least argue with him. I know he's all powerful. So he'll he'll do what he wants But at least argue with him take a stand like job dad said, but no everyone says yes, sir And he goes and you know god stops him in the last minute because you know And then we get the sacrificial lamb, which is the whole right, right? So it's all about sacrifice It's all about self-sacrifice sacrificing your most important value for So religion is a thorough tyrannism So you take that and you try to secularize it and then people say why why should I do that and there's no answer It's funny because a lot of religious people say that atheists does hedonists they only care about pleasure and pursue that some atheists are But but this is the difference between general atheism and objectivism. Objectivism has an objectively proven Objectively derived from reality code of morality that if you don't live by God won't strike you down, but reality will And you'll get what you deserve and with the second part and hedonists don't have fun They have fun in the short run and they suffer in the long run, you know, if there was a lining cocaine here, yeah, I'd get high But I suffer a long time so the Objectivism is a morality to have fun to have a good life to have a Ultimately to achieve happiness over the long run and it's a set of principles that leads to that so um So yeah, atheists need a source of morality and and since they've rejected God as a source of morality Which was never really there because there is no God The only other source of morality has to be reality So you have to figure out from reality from human experience from knowledge of history from knowledge of human psychology What are the things that will lead to a good life? Okay, and so that's so so So I believe in a sense That iron rand is the culmination of secular humanism In that sense iron rand is the ultimate secular humanist She's all about the human being She's secular And she is the first thinker In a long line starting in the renaissance to actually solve all the philosophical problems that that existed I'm not saying everything she said is true or everything she said will be true forever I don't know if any flaw Things that are wrong in it, but they might be um The point is that she isn't a line of thinkers to start with in the greeks go to the renaissance Continue through the enlightenment then there's an anti enlightenment And then she is the resurrection of that enlightenment in that sense She is the culmination of the enlightenment the culmination of the of the secular humanist It means nothing to me to be a secular humanist today If you've got if you have iron rand iron rand is so much better so much fuller so much more complete So much more interesting so much more logical and rational That it's a cop out to be a secular humanist and not be an object Very interesting and the last part of that question was are you translating any of your works into udu arabic farce So for the for the so we don't We don't translate any of iron rand's works people in particular countries do the translations of the works And then they get them published in those works So we would definitely support anybody who's interested in in In translating iron rand into farce or arabic some of iron rand's essays are translated into arabic But they were translated in israel into arabic Right It's and and I do think that people I know I have followers in Saudi arabian I have followers in quates and in the united arabian bits and all of them at least in arab countries And and but but imagine if one of them wanted to translate iron rand into arabic and get it published there Now maybe in a country like tunisia that seems to be heading in the right direction is becoming more secular And is is maybe they could do it there Maybe there was a time where we thought maybe we could do it in in egypt Maybe in india because i mean india technically speaking but india you wouldn't translate the ever And in most indian languages most in indian languages atlas shrugged is already translated So farce in arabica the two languages that it's not and and I hope somebody does it I think it'll be a project somebody will do it. I think it's just a matter of time And I will definitely support it and I think it's a good idea Most translations are pretty bad So it can't replace Learning english and but it's but it's better. It's part of that marketing effort very last door And I've been this is the very last question very last door. Sorry. I've taken so much your time I've really enjoyed the last one when you look at the middle east and you look at the muslim world Where do you see the future next 50 years 100 years? Is it gonna get worse or a lot better? Or is it more the same? I think it's really hard to judge. I think generally it's going to be more of the same potentially getting worse I think there might be some Specific spots where it gets better, you know, I hear good things about tunisia, but who knows Um, I I really think that the long-term future of the middle east is much more likely to be dominated by The slumists the radicals the new days by the secularists, but you never know people are free. Well People are constantly discovering new ideas. You're seeing what's going on in lebanon right now with people in the streets And and really taking their lives risking their lives to stand up to among others is bala And and in in advocating for really more freedom. That's what the lebanese want. They want less corruption and more freedom They're not quite ready to challenge Religious authority, but they're certainly moving in that direction. It's it's the better. I think than the general arab spring ever spring was a Was too the problem with the arab spring was it wasn't a movement for anything It was against Against the existing regimes, but it wasn't a secular movement ever spring in Egypt was dominated was the brotherhood There's a hodgepodge of everything. It was a hodgepodge of everything and of course the most consistent elements of the ones who win So the arab spring was won by the most of brotherhood and so did the egyptian military that got rid of them ultimately So, you know, I find it difficult to be optimistic about any place in the world right now. Oh boy But that's just a reality. I mean I look at the united states. It's moving towards statism and authoritarianism I look at europe. It's a complete mess. I mean get a disaster I mean uk might be in better shape than most generally. I think I think that's we haven't spoken about brexit Which is not a bad thing because I'm sick and tired of them sick and tired So I think the uk is generally in better situation in the most countries. I think you have a better educational system You know the bit is no more than most countries and you've got a certain element of civilization here that is better Um, but I'm you know, china is moving in the wrong direction right now for years I was very optimistic about china and over the last five years. I've shifted and now it seems like Especially what they're doing to the week Well to hong kong and but also What they're doing to the muslims in in in western china But but but more than that the fact that this president is an authoritarian in a way that His political powers increased not decreased the previous presidents were decreasing political power. He's increased it You know the whole social credit system all these things And but you look at south korea has gone left Uh, singapore is even flirting with more socialist policies. Amazing. The whole world is moving away From what I think is the pinnacle political achievement in human history And that is the founding of america the the declaration of the menace and the constitution are two most important political documents in human history And the the world including america moving away from those documents I I cannot be optimistic right now But any place in the world and I think the middle east is is Is worse than most in terms of where it is today and probably where it's heading But um and one of the problems is and I'll end with this Is that the world needs a beacon It needs hope It needs somebody to emulate and somebody to strive to be and america was always that and and Barack Obama and donald trump have done more than any other two presidents in american history To do away with that both both of them don't believe in american exceptionalism Both of them believe is america is just another country that nobody should emulate us. Where have we killed people? Donald trump would be that kind of when donald trump was asked about putans killing of journalists donald trump says Yeah, we kill people too. What's a big deal? I mean literally said they could find it on youtube um donald trump's not an american exceptionalism donald trump's america first because they happen to be these borders and he happens to be an american so America is more important, but he doesn't know what america is There's no concept of the meaning of america in terms of what the idea is behind it So what the world needs is I is somebody to emulate what the middle east needs is to look up to something to strive towards And as america is in decline, I think that goes away and it's sad You're seeing already people wanting to emulate china. Yes, and that is very scary and very dangerous very dangerous So so you know to try to end on a positive Please And the positive is that for the for the first time suddenly since ancient greece We have available to us and really available to all of us a pro life pro Human flourishing pro individual happiness philosophy. We have a set of ideas That can free us from history can free us from their constraint placed us by religion That you know That all the new atheists were all christian and their morality That they challenged their epistemology and their metaphysics and they refused to challenge the morality Here's a woman who comes about and yeah, yeah, the atheism stuff is easy It's the morality stuff that's hard and We have now a philosophical system That turns the world upside down that really that that kind of completes them what the founding fathers of america did It provides a philosophical foundation for freedom provides a philosophical foundation for capitalism philosophical foundations for liberty i mean The world will be a much better place The world will be an amazing place of more people in braces philosophy So go read i man and it'll change your life and you know and and and you'll discover I think you'll discover a whole new world and a whole new potential for human beings That i think has been suppressed constantly by the status by the marches by the conservatives By everybody there is a possibility of human flourishing that is unimaginable to us if we embrace the right ideas Yaron book.  I've really enjoyed it. Please subscribe to your channel Good interview. I enjoyed it. I yeah, you're on book show You're on book show on on youtube or facebook twitter or on podcast app of your choice Absolutely, it's been an absolute pleasure. And are you touring elsewhere as well or do you want to give I'm doing seven countries in seven days starting tomorrow. That's amazing So lots of talks in the next in the next week fantastic. It's been a pleasure once again. Yes, absolutely I'll hope to see you soon guys. Thank you for watching. I hope you enjoyed this and if you like this, please subscribe and like I'll see you guys next time Thank you