and I think what you said really struck a chord then you said it's a real mindset shift right like you know it's you work for them not they work for you and and I think that's the key I think if more employers had that mindset shift that yeah I've got an I've got a fresh graduate I'm going to work for them I'm going to help set their career up yeah rather than they can do everything I'm going to tell them to do and they're going to do it because I'm paying them two different mindsets because yeah once upon a time I ran a marketing agency as well so we went through that process of hiring young people and and that mindset shift I totally agree it's it's something where you know they come in they don't have any experience but they've got energy versus someone that has like 30 years of experience they're set in a specific way of doing things and they're more towards like I'm just doing this to get paid versus these young guys that just they bring that energy they bring that vibe and they just want to be the best that they can be yeah you've got to nurture that right yeah I try and teach my kids the same thing about living enough for other people right so I think a big a big thing about business is being I used to have a business where you know you you negotiate and there is always room for negotiation right but I don't think you should do it to the point where you've also got to take an account the other person they've also got to feed their family so if you try to take everything they've got nothing left right and then that just contributes to the poverty problem so we've all got to to leave something for someone else and and it goes so true Sev going back to you what you said you know leaving a legacy something that you know yeah people can build upon it's it's like you go into a casino with a plan not that I am a fan of gambling you know in my earlier days I I enjoyed the roulette wheel going into play blackjack I still play poker with my friends because I like the I like the hustle I like the the bluff the hustle muscle yeah but when you go into the casino you go in with a plan but the casino is designed to make you overextend yeah and try again and think that you can do better but the house always wins yeah if you can master that discipline in life you'll be able to not only live a selfless life but leave a legacy at the same time and the reason why I bring up the casino analogy is if you have a plan and you hit it and you're strong enough to leave that that goes tenfold into life um but uh tell everybody who you are where you've come from and where you are right where you are right now and I'll add some more questions to that yeah no it sounds good Sev so hey everyone my name is Douglas Slim and I actually come from Normara so best place to come from in Perth so yeah no I'm the co-founder of a software as a service product called subamplify now two aspects to subamplify first aspect is it's a subscription e-commerce platform so if you want to sell anything online it could be condiments it could be kicks like your shoes you need an online store you can set it up through our main platform and then you can set up a subscription product from the get go so that's one product and then the other part is we also have a subscriptions app that you can install if you run on a platform like Shopify yeah so you can sell anything on a subscription so going back to that example before if you sell condiments you can install our app and sell it on a monthly basis on a recurring weekly basis however you see fit and like recurring subscription based um purchasing one that comes to mind is the dollar shave club yes how similar is your business model to that to theirs yeah look that is such a great question we we enable that so if you have a store that sells something on a subscription like razor blades you could use our app to to do that so we're more of the the mechanism to enable it so whether software that allows you to do it versus being a brand that actually sells a physical product ourselves we're more the software behind it awesome and when it comes to fulfillment how automated is that process for the products that your clients deliver yeah i love this question so of all our clients a lot of them use a third-party logistics company so shout out to sophie at quickmail who who i highly recommend that's who we work with a lot um otherwise they'll either have that or their own warehouse or they'll just ship it out of their own like and you see this on tiktok i love this you see people shipping out of their own you know their own house yeah they hustle they hustle right the early yeah family days the foundation days i mean like so that's that's where it starts um for me i've always wanted to do it i've always wanted to do like they push a product out yeah um with meaning but i could never find a product with meaning i don't want to do the drop shipping thing no disrespect i've got a guy over east who teaches people how to do it and he's a million there now at 24 right um and i'm like i really i really want to try it but i just i can't find anything i'm like everybody needs this i can't find it because my intent is quite different i've got a kind of approach where i want to sell digital products where it's like a pdf i've got an educational background i want to create something that probably is a little bit making fun of the education system because it's outdated um that can give value to the kids over the peak of the pandemic i streamed on tiktok maths lessons at the peak i had 20 000 students watch me wow and they would take the notes take the photo and they send the notes to me via instagram dm yeah i only ever had one parent a little bit concerned going why is my child like messaging you that's isn't that weird i'm like yeah but look at all the notes and stuff there's no maliciousness here and that's like the stigma right you don't want teachers like communicating to students they weren't my personal students but at the same time i'm like why not i've got to working with children to check i'm making an impact they're making notes whilst all the other teachers are still trying to figure out how to unmute their zoom you know absolutely but going back to the um your thing so a bit of a segue a bit of a tangent physical products what made you get into this uh in the first place what where where did you see the gap that made you go i want to be in this industry oh mate when you were talking before Sev about the pandemic you brought back memories of how we actually got started so it was actually a few years ago my wife and i we literally sat on a couch like this and had the same questions that you just asked like love to ship a physical product like create a community around it like what could we do and we literally sat on it for a few months before we both came out with the idea of a crochet subscription box so crocheting mate yeah i love crocheting hey so crocheting is like knitting but with one hook and so my wife loves to crochet it's her one of her favorite pastimes i'm not a crocheter i've learned a little bit about how to do it i'm all the tech kind of marketing guy similar to yourself sev uh but so we started that and we launched it in the us when we first did it uh and we grew up to be one of the biggest crochet subscription boxes in in the us uh and that's kind of what kicked off my journey in the ecom yeah and i think when we we added that subscription element to the business because it was a subscription box that's kind of where we learned the power of subscriptions and we thought to ourselves look wouldn't it be cool if we had a platform that you could set this all up out of the box which is where subamphi was born out of and and then we we pivoted to be able to allow anyone who already has a store on Shopify to add subscriptions and kind of that kind of led us down that that journey and that did not exist anywhere else before no so we were one of the first to market so we we had that first mover advantage which also comes with the downside where you got to educate the market first because people were like what is this and then you have people on your heels copying you correct and trying to overtake you yes so how did you how did you go through that process in your head because i relate because i was one of the first in australia to start talking about tiktok on a marketing scale fantastic over three years ago now wow and people are still not listening which is frustrating and now i'm seeing agencies who are going yeah we do tiktok and all that but they push they push ads behind it yeah which is another story but i can feel them on my heels the the degree of difference is huge they don't have a marketing degree well i don't have a education degree which is what i teach and they don't have five years of proof nobody does yeah and they don't have that business mindset and they also don't have that two-year sales pipeline that i grew with my wedding photography business directly from tiktok organically for free it's incredible wow and i'm just thinking people are going to come at me and they're going to push their content they're their tiktok advisory i'm seeing it mostly in america thank god because a lot of them are they're just money grab money grab money grab they're like i'll teach you how to grow your channel but then what how do you monetize it yeah how do you monetize it like i know how to do it and then that's when the business it comes in so i'm still biting my time but i really now want to put my foot down and really just go all right guys enough enough talking let's do because i see that you guys are getting on boarded by a hundred dollar hundred and fifty dollar an hour consultant and i'm seeing it everywhere in australia they're like yeah yeah grow grow grow i go to all their channels i'm like where's your proof yeah you got 1500 followers on all your channels put together you don't have a business and you don't have any testimonials what's going on right spot on so how you feel about your industry and that sort of wavelength yeah look that's such a great question sev i remember when we first launched we i remember running those facebook ads because tiktok wasn't around back then and then yeah and then a whole raft of competitors came through and i remember thinking at the time this is it did hit me because i wasn't used to it so i was like man like everyone's just copying each other it's like crazy but then i i kind of when i got over that initial hump i learned that well one to accept it because there's nothing i could do about it and two it made me realize that you know if people are copying you then obviously you're doing something right right like you're making a ripple in the world that someone is actually copying you and so kind of it it forced us to really focused a on making our product better which was good a good thing and secondly i think the biggest thing that came out of it was the community so i love what you you talk about with your tiktoks and stuff like the community right so we grew the brand but we we attached that community with it so we really got to know our customers um unfortunately a lot of our customers are a bit older so a lot of them passed away some of them passed away because older generation and and their husbands would email us and tell us about the funeral and all this sort of stuff and we got that close to our customers um so that was the the big positive where we turned it and that's a small time frame too like three less than three years yeah three to four years correct yeah yeah amazing so you built this community and how did you leverage that community build to then um continue building what you have yeah so we we learned a lot from that community so how they use their subscriptions so we we saw what they were doing how often they would buy uh and more so just understanding the psychology behind why they would buy a subscription because during the pandemic obviously sales like tripled quadrupled because everyone's at home yeah but then usually around January after December the quiet period uh sorry after December the busy period of Christmas people's wallets tend to just get put away for a little bit because they've just spent all this money so we kind of used all that data and understanding their buying habits to put that into the app so where we're different with our subscriptions app is we're not just transactional so we're really shifting the software into more relational more community focused so you have a subscription but then how can we help you through our software to create that community around it yeah that's kind of where we're taking it at the moment the sense of belonging is one of the primal needs of a human being if you can provide that through your brand you'll have clients for life yeah spot on spot on yep correct what has been um the one of the key factors in someone committing to a subscription that you found what like how does the psychology work behind that I can tell you how they get me it's convenience yeah what else is there yeah that's that's that's a big thing convenience then you've highlighted the second biggest point which is being belonging to something so a lot of our customers that joined our crochet subscription box would be often like my family member spoke about you guys my work mate spoke about you and interestingly enough I found this out from some of our customers in the US in their lunch breaks people actually crochet so when they're working they actually crochet at their desk it's such a massive thing over there compared to here but yeah just belonging so feeling they they see our videos user-generated content online people our customers posting videos and they're like I want to be part of that yeah and it's my wife and I also made ourselves I think this is the other thing if you want to get into creating a community around a subscription you've got to be the face of the brand right so like I see your face you are the face of your brand and I love that right you're not hiding behind a logo or you are there we see you and it's a big yeah it's huge right it's a big separation of difference between everybody else yeah I see other agencies yeah other brands or like marketing agencies their CEOs their their owners that the only time I hear from them is then when they're talking about the accolades yeah I'm like yeah but I want to know you more yes you're just a business person yeah especially when they talk about creative I'm like are you a creator though yeah I love I love the fact that I'm a practitioner and that I actually do it so then I'm like would you rather an agency that is you know built this whole monster with all these people they have underneath them keyword underneath yeah would you like rather have someone that's done it themselves at scale and who has other magicians working with them yeah but um my question for you for that is the sense of belonging the convenience that's that's added in with a physical product mm have you demonstrated this with a service based product for subscription models all that is that is I should good questions I have to rack my brain so this one so we primarily have dealt with physical products and digital products my new so with our crochet subscription box we actually built subamplify for us so we're out we're our own customer and part of that is we create our own subscription product sorry digital subscription product as well but in terms of service I mean in the past I have done marketing services for clients but since I've started subamplify we're purely in the digital slash physical product realm um but I do have a question for you sir actually before I forget I loved when you touched upon that point about being the face of your your agency your you know your company what would you say to a CEO listening to this right now to what can they do to expose themselves a bit say they're a little bit afraid to get in front of the camera to be out there they're not extroverted what are some simple things you think they can do ask you I'm gonna write notes too by the way ask yourself why you want to improve why why you're thinking about it and if your company brand business is doing well without you in it how much more value would it bring if you actually took the leap and showcasing yourself and you don't even have to talk about your company you talk about yourself your upbringing your everything that's happened up until now to get to this point because people are interested in that and that can become its own side brand and what will people do they will go who is this person I like the value but what do they do Google oh they own this company I'm into crochet I'm gonna buy that because this guy has given me so much value about business entrepreneurship I crochet I don't even like crochet my mum does I'm gonna gift her for Christmas because this guy's given me value through his interviews right yeah best example in the recent times um Alex Hamosy hmm and I talk about him all the time I I discovered him early I was hipster Alex Hamosy that's all he does he just creates little snippets of business ethics goal like things life advice talks about his wife all like random stuff the reason why is because he's trying to find relatable touch points with as many people as possible because if you look at the law of averages the 1% of 1% are you're are going to be your clients the 1% are going to be your big fans the 1% of that and that's a worst-case scenario too depending on how good you are will be your paying clients you create scale content right and it's not going to go not everything's going to go viral but you're going to flood the market all right you're going to flood the market and you're going to let's say you get a million views or a million followers right 1% of a million 10 000 that's heaps that's a lot it's 10 000 people and you you do that all the time like he does you're going to build that average to go higher let's say you have uh 1% of 10 000 right you've got uh 100 people 100 people that will buy that's a lot that's a lot of 100 people and let's say your product is 10 dollars yeah it's thousand dollars thousand dollars thousand dollars let's say it's a subscription i like where you're going now you've got a thousand dollars a month yeah right but let's say that they're googling this is my favorite part because they go oh this is where agencies go wrong oh but i i want to target to an each audience that is actually the wrong way to go about it and here's why you have your reach broad you have your 1% of your target audience and then 1% of that that will buy what are the rest of them potentially going to do they're going to be your business card they're going to be your word of mouth they're going to be planted the seed from all the content that you've been putting out at scale and they're going to go interesting not relevant to me but all i'm seeing is this person about this topic subconsciously then they're going to refer that to someone that is needed because people want sense of belonging if i refer you someone that you're going to benefit from i have a sense of belonging that i helped you out i have fulfillment i have valid you know validation of you know me doing something good for you i'm leaving a mini internal legacy for you and uh you know that's it but businesses brands and companies are uh i thinking about it all wrong they're thinking about the 1% that they need to target put money behind it we need to target this one why don't target everybody yeah because i can my first ever inquiry from tiktok first ever require inquiry from tiktok was a mother in her 50s who's already married before she's getting remarried she has kids the kid found me on tiktok wow and said my mom and the lady said i'm a former school teacher relatability yep and my kid found you on tiktok and saw that you are wedding photographer and begged me to inquire with you because he wants you to be the wedding photographer they went down a pipeline yeah they saw that i had a website wedding photography and was the product was good right and they're like yeah you're our guy but before that i had done nothing but relate this tattoo i got this tattoo when i was 20 i added the colors in three years ago two years ago blink 182 right i made a tiktok about adding the colors in yeah i got a client a wedding client because of that because their favorite band was blink 182 wasn't even about weddings but they knew i had weddings and then one key touch point that made it relatable right i love that so that's where and that's not a traditional sales pipeline either right that's like being you being authentically that's the brand build that's the brand build you have to create the funnel that's indirect but there's all these different things that you need to know you need to be authentic you need to be in your intent needs to be i love doing this you can't you can't be salesy yeah you can't ask you have to give you know it's funny i love i love chatting with you sev because i'm a i'm a fan of homozy as well and you watch his videos and he's like got like rough as anything right he's wearing like flannel flannel and he's got like a bandaid on his nose because he's cut himself he's wearing a hat he looks like he's just woken up from bed but he doesn't care right he's so authentic he's like yo this is what it is this is how it is you want to be success blah blah blah and the thing i like about him he doesn't swear right it's not his thing it's not like he goes off and just every second word is a swear word but he's authentically who he is i love that and his story by the way that thing is a breathing thing he doesn't cut himself oh is it it's a breathing thing i didn't even know okay that's a breathing thing so he developed a uh a gym starter thing and i'm paraphrasing here but um he would help launch gyms all across america and he would be in person and he he he one time went halves was meant to go halves with someone uh for a gym together business partners and then last minute the other person fell through so he had i think $60,000 saved and the half that he was going to put in was like 25k but because his business partner bailed he had to he had to fork out 50k which left him 10k all up with what he had what he did he slept in his gym but then he built that up to 10,000 20,000 uh revenue a month of membership and then he built a system optimized that system tested it over time again and again again started helping others and then another story i heard from him he said that um someone called him up and said one of his clients i'm struggling how do i get more members and he had a system he goes well i don't really have time to teach you but here's the system right uh he goes oh how much he got alex was like 66 grand he's like yeah done made a $6,000 sale then in there and the guy called him so good so then alex was like i have 200 other clients what if i called all of them up and see what happened over time he he i forget how much he made but he made a lot of money that that day and he was he was playing he was like um you can have for 10 grand yep no worries i think he said something like he got sold on for 20k the system the same system people just want value and they have built that relationship with him that's where i actually like alex alex is a big inspiration because that story i heard about that two three years ago yep maybe less than that but i was like i have a system i can sell that system to people but unfortunately that system is a creative system to build content for people's channels people aren't creative not everybody like very minimal people are creative um so there's a problem there and that's where like i would want to nurture them and help them and teach them and that's why i asked you about service based subscriptions because people want people want my system they want to see how i did 1.5 million followers in five years and still going up it's not linear nothing's linear right and they want to know how i've sustained that and survived that like the last two months specifically this year i've gotten 300 000 new followers wow i was on 1.2 million for like a whole year why because i went away from my brand and i was focusing on consulting because that's what i love doing i love educating now i'm back i'm like all right let's play with the brand a little bit i got a bit creative and hit a goldmine in january 300 000 followers almost off of one video so i was like cool now obviously i'd wish i could do that every day and have 10 million followers and really kill it with my brand um but i feel like the universe has got something more in store for me than just building numbers online because followers don't mean everything yeah so what i'm currently looking at is how do i live my own legacy and at the moment i'm still in the selfish mode because the selfish mode is i need to create cash flow i need to get my consulting up to a point where clients are all obviously happy first first most important thing and the cash flow is the tool to on board my staff to help me build my brand so it's like a circle of life sort of thing absolutely chicken and the egg and i figured out which one's which and now i'm i'm starting to slowly execute but uh goes back to the subscription thing goes back to alexa mosey thing my big thing is is i want to help people at scale the ones that can afford it as in the companies and the businesses the ones that have internal marketing teams that's who i'm targeting but also the small business owners who don't have anything but their life savings i don't want to charge them the same amount i don't feel right i feel like there's a lot more pressure you know the old saying someone's paying you $50 for a service versus 50k yep the person that pays 50k cares less than the guy that paid $50 yeah because the 50k that's probably a budget of some ridiculous amount versus the $50 of someone that's probably never done it before and goes this is like part of my life savings but i want to help those people as well and that's where the service based subscription comes in i've got something i've i've i've got the website i've got it on there but i just have never done it before where the interface is clean i've been part of a few memberships subscription based memberships but they're whatsapp groups yep it doesn't feel clean like yes i we can talk to all of them and every now and then he drops a zoom link all right everybody 9 p.m we're on it just doesn't feel clean i need something more there's something called circles circles.so or .io one of those two it's one like it's a membership it's like kind of like notion a little bit of notion integration and then you have the like kajabi sort of style content in there um but man it's $300 a month to start with and uh there it is on the tv there yeah it looks good um it's it's clean it's all in one community platform group for creators and brands um but i'm just like 300 bucks a month i mean 14 day trial is great but uh man i need to subsidize that 300 quickly you know yeah that's the risk and the reward right yeah well i think for you sev like i would with your knowledge and obviously your experience and you've got the runs on the border right i see you more offering like kind of three tiers right so i think you would be really good as a high ticket coach so that's where you you know you you do your coaching um recorded sessions plus like a coaching core once a month and they'll be high ticket like a homozy 25 grand sort of thing so yeah i mean like two sales 50 grand there you go right she needed a good salesman yeah yeah yeah so i see you use that as one offering and that's where they get access to you because i think that's the key like so a lot of business owners are busy right they they want someone just to come in and do it for them or they want access to you and i feel like they're willing to pay that to get access to you so that i'd have like something like that yeah and then you can go for the smaller tier which is like your mums and dads who are trying to to get out there get the business going but they can't afford 25 grand yeah and that's where the membership comes in where that could be through online you know some of that content for your high ticket clients but broken down into for the for the smaller type clients um but without the coaching course yeah so you know and it could just be you know some new content yeah every every month and it could be something simple yeah uh but i mean that's just how i would i mean that's that's exactly how i've planned it out it's just a matter of now i've never done that before and it's a matter of is it something that you could potentially do in your system yeah yeah absolutely so we and i'm i'm glad you mentioned this so i'm i'm going to be adding that to the business as well which is we've got the software but then the the coaching as well so a lot of i notice a lot of physical box oh sorry um ecom store owners they'll just slap on the the usual subscribe and save type model you know condiments sell it on a monthly basis save a little bit of money and that's their subscription but i think the real shift is moving towards now people that want to be loyal to brand someone that i love sev's brand i just want i just want him right so i want to pay subscription and like i was saying before to you but instead of to you to the brand yeah so we want to kind of teach that as well so that's kind of where we want to add that element yeah that's that's where i want to go as well like i i don't i don't want to rule out physical products i just don't know what it is something unique something collectible like gary v has got his v friends thing which is insanely cool right on the nfts yeah yeah it's um like an nft world i do want to explore that space um i was part of something um i had a small percentage of sharing and unfortunately things went wrong in the ether ether space and everything went down and everything went quiet and i'm asking them i'm like guys what are you doing i'm putting my name on this why are you guys not doing anything like i i'm part owner but a very small proportion which means i'm not a decision maker you're not a key decision maker i'll put some input in because that's what that's what my share involves what are you doing so i feel bad so i really just want to steer clear of it for now but my nfts sort of approach is coming in kind of like the cryptopunks did they were free yeah at the start now they're i think they're they're not as valued as high anymore even of the the the apes everything went to to help but for my approach i want it to be nfts free thousand tokens or whatever not ten thousand thousands enough maximum of two per person get them involved but i just don't have the infrastructure or the right people on the team to manage it all yet yeah gary did it perfectly he executed it perfectly he'd even delayed it because he wasn't happy because he's not money hungry you know he made like 50 million or something in the first day anyway but and now he's making ongoing the the 10 royalty fees is crazy but for me coming in for free means i have i retain all the leverage because nobody's out of pocket they can only go up and if it fails it fails you know obviously i don't want it to fail but then it just comes with belief and things like that because i don't really need to raise capital for anything i can create my own cash flow and i like coming from russia as an immigrant i love the fact that i came from nothing and i never got any handouts yeah it's good i mean capital is still a tool it's a fine fine tool to use if you know how to use it but that's like one of the things i'm like i reckon i can do it without it really would like to do it without it um but yeah the approach i want to do is subscription based service based and they're i like the idea of subscribing to the brand but they need something from me that's a point of difference they go oh you're subscribed oh that's awesome and have like a capped amount as well all these different things you can put in there i mean i looked at it early this year or late last year and i thought you know what if it's a hundred dollar a month subscription for ongoing coaching like whether you join a webinar twice a week or you get an edm email exclusively to you about all the latest updates and stuff like that that's pretty good value hundred percent right and a thousand of those subscriptions times a hundred it's a hundred k a month give or take tax and service fees and all that stuff you know i just want to make sure that those thousand people are getting they love it they yeah and that's what's most important to me they come in with no reason of a doubt cancel any time whatever but they go i just want to pay i don't even i don't even use the subscription so i just like they've given me so much value over time you know that's legacy absolutely yeah you know what though like i reckon because you're you know tiktok so well that is a huge advantage with your subscription so i give an example right i remember when i first got on tiktok the trend was people doing dancing yeah it was a massive lip syncing lip syncing dancing and everyone started jumping on dancing right everyone every mom and dad tried to dancing and that was the thing tiktok was known as like this thing for dancing and then it progressed where people started realizing oh wow you can you can give knowledge and and value so people started doing like you know a few teaching stuff and and that was good and then you see the trends now that are happening with all the different sort of things you know with like the different filters and all this sort of stuff paying a subscription to someone that can keep me up to date with that stuff i think is invaluable yeah like what is trending now on tiktok what works what is the music that you should pick what are the the different things where i can incorporate something in my life in about 30 seconds and create a video out of it that stuff that's that's the that is worth it's it's weight in gold i reckon 100% 100% i just need to kick on with it so um let's say we start this together right yeah and you help me with it how would it work for me doing this and having you do the back end systems because my biggest weakness is systems the back end stuff and having it all organized because all i really want to do is just talk to people yeah i'm not even the best salesman i just like to tell people what i do and they go can we buy that my oh yeah i guess i can i guess i can sell it but then they're like alright how do i do it i'm like shit i need to make a system i need to make a back end thing so with you saying that you're introducing this as a model i'd love to be the first kind of success story slash case study with this and uh it's amazing how these conversations evolve because i had no idea that that was going to be a thing because when i first looked at your thing i was like he doesn't have a service-based end specifically so and like i've seen pay pay gates like on on on Calendly people pay straight there easy Calendly is amazing and stan have you got to stand the streaming service no not the streaming service the um the it's like a link tree sort of thing and okay it's a link in bio and you go into it and it's just like all the different services you can get stan link tree service thing yeah no i haven't heard of it but i have seen link tree welcome to stan stan support i think it's the top one maybe no that's the streaming service there there's another one called stan but yeah just go stan payment i don't know i don't know even what your research but stan payment for service yeah stan store that's the one yeah that that one there yeah so stan is an all-in-one creator store tutorial of stan store and how to get that dollars those dollars but yeah that's the i know it's confusing with the streaming service one but yeah um that's something that i i actually got a early access to okay years ago when it first started out but i wasn't ready yeah and i could still get into that space um but then it's it's still just a pay gate i can just use Calendly right um but it's it's a pretty good little kind of setup but i'd really like more of a subscription-based thing and then like i don't know if Shopify is even relevant to service-based sort of stuff that um it'd be something interesting to explore yeah i think Shopify is more geared towards physical products to to tell you the truth like it's got all the shipping stuff that you've got to handle yeah um with that stan though i was just having a look at it on the screen there is it do they so you pay them a monthly fee and you want set up a like a your own creator type store yeah and you can charge a subscription through it yeah pretty much yeah and then it's just pay ward so you just put your content up and they just says like a kajabi yeah but there's no there's no um like like a course it's like one-on-ones and or um like you can set up a pdf to download from it um that's what i mean by digital products right i've got this kind of vision where i create these different pdfs um get my designer to create some cool canva stuff because she's brilliant sorry to say canva she's way better in in design as a professional graphic designer should be and we can release a really cool looking pdf every week or every month or something like that that helps and i really want to get back into the education sector just not in the system because they'll just take it all as their ip um but i want to help kids from primary school all the way to year 12 that you know are old enough to access computers and their parents are monitoring them but more particularly high school because year 7s all the way through year 12s i feel like there's a subscription model there that their parents would be stoked to have like in terms of a digital one and then we could potentially evolve that into a physical one i don't know what the physical one would be but um another another idea this is just me complete someone's going to steal this i guarantee it as a school teacher from year seven to year nine the kids never had stationary they always lost stationary so what if you created a stationary subscription based model for kids and their parents would just pay for it and it would just be like uh bi-degradable yes sustainable pens for the good stuff you know yeah just something that comes in every month and if you lose it well you got another set coming in a month i don't know if that'll work but just all minecraft and fortnight yeah all minecraft fortnight label get them on towards you know branding could be something yeah well i always think you know you try it and see what the data tells you right yeah yeah yeah but then it's the branding right so if it's like oh it's sev sev stationary like because i'm big on education it's like yeah i've got a sev i've got a sev's picks pen i don't know and then every month it could be a new one but um like going back to the actual digital stuff the pdfs would be something like um just advice or um tool a tool that they can like a like a framework that they can go through all right this month it's this this month is this a lot of work to go behind it i'd have to have someone else helping me with copyright and that but it's something definitely i really want to explore but going back to the consulting that's where we are right now and that's where that's where i'm enjoying myself for the moment but the legacy is in education for the kids to do to do what they love to be able to discover what they want to do my three pillars of education are self-awareness mixed in with self-esteem kind of they can in hand financial fitness and pivoting right so if you're self-aware and you build that confidence through your self-esteem early enough you can do whatever you want amen to that and then whatever job that you get at the start of your career the financial fitness will help you go i'm going to put 50 percent into investment not saving it investing it then by the age of 30 you know the stats yeah you'll be able to be more financially fit maybe even free so that if you do decide to change jobs which is the third pillar pivoting you're away because your self-awareness grows to the point where you will change nobody sticks to their job in their 20s well into their 50s and is truly happy unless they're super lucky yeah i love this sev because i have this chat with mates all the time right like i've got a friend who in his 40s hates what he does just hates it mortgage wife kids but he's got mortgage wife and kids he can't he can't switch right and then i think back to when i was 17 working out what i want to do to base the rest of your life and put so much pressure on these kids to say you need to work out what you want to do and do well at high school because that's going to dictate the rest of your life i don't like that narrative like i think life it can change so much like there's nothing wrong with doing something and then going you know what i really don't enjoy this i'm going to pivot like you said and switch to something different yeah and culturally as well like i came from immigrant parents and my dad Asian culture is like i want you to be a doctor or a lawyer or something of status yeah i could not i remember being a kid and going i don't want to do that i don't want to be a doctor i don't want to be this prestigious lawyer i don't i don't care i just wouldn't and that's kind of what i want to do with my kids and tell them like exactly what you said sev i don't care what you do as long as you're happy that's my biggest thing because you're going to be doing it for the rest of your life predominantly maybe so just enjoy it right absolutely and i dare i say 99 percent of people should pivot yeah multiple times throughout their life yes unless you've absolutely found your calling it doesn't happen it's like winning the lottery and even then the lottery you kind of miss out on the journey like if you find something you wake up to every day that you just like cannot wait to get out of bed to do that's when you know you're passionate about it like i love educating people i love helping them i get that sense of fulfillment but dare i say i don't feel that i'm completely you know found what i want to really really do and when i was doing my photography stuff before i started getting paid for it i really enjoyed doing that i couldn't wait to get to the city wow and i would race i would race the sun down the coast to get it on the sun sunset there'd be shipping ship oil ships out in the horizon and they have a crane on each side and i would try and park my car and get the sun to sit on the i've got a couple of the photos first photos i took it was my creativity i really wanted to do it i didn't care about anybody else if they liked it i just want to see if i do it i love that and i think the important question this is something i want to ask everybody including yourself is what is your perfect day what does that consist of if it could be every day as well oh that's such a great question seve look i think i'm i'm very similar to you in that you know legacy is a big thing kids are a big thing so i teach the kids at my church on sunday i absolutely love it as well because you're investing in the next generation so i love kids as well and all the things you spoke about right getting up and doing what you love and so for me my perfect day would be just being able to wake up and i love playing monopoly deal with my kids so we'll do that we'll play that i love reading a daily devotional having breakfast as a as a family and then just doing what i love which is i love designing product like software i love being able to help customers i love coming up with ideas and strategies uh because i've been programming since i was a kid so it's kind of like my thing like your photography i love getting and coding something and generating something out of life like selling from scratch and building it up and i just i love doing that um and then just living life as if i'm leaving something better behind me right like and this is why i relate to you so much i think at the end of my tenure i never wanted to go you know like bring me this Ferrari or bring me this like who does that right it's it's bring me my family and i'm i'm happy dying knowing that i've helped this many people yeah um and especially now like i wrote this on a linkedin post in my 30s i went to like million weddings right everyone was all our mates were getting married in my 40s i'm early 40s i've really been to like six funerals similar age similar age so i'm not these guys are in their 40s and 50s that are have passed away what has been the most common cause oh we could go through is it dark uh no look it's a couple different things um couple heart attacks yeah just yeah i won't say too much about that one heart attacks uh just uh leukemia um cancer i bring this i bring this topic on a little bit more of a note because life is long but it's also not uh it's it's finite and as much as you on the path of finding something that you love doing you're going to be living in the moment but also to the point where you're not racing to get to retirement because at the end of the retirement you don't even know what retirement is you see other people retired i personally see people that are retired i don't want to live that life it looks boring i want to continue doing what i'm doing and i've had one of my best mates um he's in his 50s early 50s uh he's a former colleague of mine when i was teaching he called me up last week and he said that his best mate he said he knew from 15 years old passed away out of nowhere he was in the basement doing a workout and he's passed away he's just heart attack in his early 50 another heart attack yeah yeah yeah yeah and they would talk three times a week you know so for me it's not just about finding what i love doing enjoying the moment but also manifesting a point where by the time i hit 40 i'm only 32 luckily by the time i'm 40 i'm what society would call retired escaped the rat race rich dad poor dad um developed a game called escape the rat race and it's it's not a cheap game it's someone call it a more hardcore version of monopoly but you're not racing against anybody else you're not you're not no one else is you know you're not landing on anybody else's houses um but you know there are opportunities that come in have you played the game we had the game yes yes yeah so you know at the start you put your cheese on a specific milestone and everyone's like you know create get 400 000 a year and and have your own you know theme park and things like that i always choose have my statue in a park yeah that's what always i want to choose interesting because that's that's what we're like that's what resonates to me the most as legacy you have a statue of yourself years from now people are going to walk past and go who's this person yeah maybe like two or three people will actually care but that statue's there for a lot longer maybe they'll get collapsed maybe whatever they'll renovated or go who is this guy 200 years from now but they still talk about you know Benjamin Franklin and they'll be talking about Elon Musk for for for centuries yeah you know um and like why not get to a point where i'm also being talked about that yeah i don't i don't want to start a SpaceX program to get to Mars i want to get i want to help the kids educate them with like i want to be remembered as the guy that helped kids realize they could do whatever they want and really went against the grain of the education system you know that escaped the rat race thing you get a card that gives you a job occupation if you're a doctor you're making lots of money but you have lots of debt correct if you're a janitor you don't have much money you don't have much debt and i've played it a few minutes a few times and you learn about tax you learn about loans you learn about percentages and all that stuff really in game everybody should play it and yeah when you finally escape the rat race your ultimate goal doesn't come straight away either because you still have to land on that piece you still have to work for it and it's like the perfect condensed version of what life is but if you don't know where you're heading because you're just too distracted by the world through social media tv sports music all these nice things to be involved with you get distracted i talked about this the other day with someone else you need to really focus in on yourself to really help yourself awareness grow and that's where i want to come in and go hey guys i know you're on tiktok scrolling right now however what have you done today to empower yourself or yourself tomorrow and jordan peterson said he goes if you want to make a change right now don't wait till five years from now to do it because five years from now you'll be a lot older in the same spot yeah and that's where like i bring up the the death thing you look back i mean if you're dead you're dead that's it but if you get past if you're luckily enough to get past that point to you know reflect back regrets worse correct regrets the worst thing so true all right man so i'm i'm grateful to you know chat with you um do my thing have the courage to to leave it a government recession free pandemic free job that was paying two and a half grand a fortnight but i look back and go wow if i stayed there yeah i would be so much more unhappy oh just like the opportunities that i have now and that's where people need to learn that that's what happens that's the bigger picture it's hard to like kind of preach that to people because i've done it and some people say oh it's easy for you to say but that's why i've documented every step of the way which is just more magical because kids from school they message me they go sev we've uh we've watched you since school you've literally done what you said you would do and we saw every step of the way it's inspiring so i want to really amplify that yeah and uh it's it's my biggest challenge right now is the continued income to help live that dream so any sponsors out there hit me up yeah but um for yourself you're loving what you do you've you've described me your perfect day what happens next wow first of all i just want to say um how incredibly proud i am of you sev thank you for following your dreams i just i think it just really hit a note for me because i i'm exactly the same i i never wanted to be at the end of my life to go what if um and you know being an entrepreneur doing your own business as you know it's really hard like it is so hard right it's not for everybody it's not for everybody and yeah if you go get a job and you work for someone you can go to work come home and not have to worry about how you're going to get that income in because you're just going to get paid right whereas a business you've got to we spoke we've spoken about this you to get the income you've got to work out how you're going to get sales and you've got to pay your taxes you get a potentially higher stuff you've got so much stuff that you need to handle yeah um you create that nine to five job for someone else yeah yeah correct it makes me it makes me feel sometimes a hypocrite because i really just encourage people to to live their as life as best as possible if they're comfortable with the nine to five that's fine but they just need to know that they're aware that there's a far greater option out there but if in their mind the nine to five is their best option because that's their personality that's all right as long as they know that there's a better like a different option alternative so yeah and i think it goes back to what you said right so if you have a great job and and you're getting paid and that's fine each their own but if you you have a passion that you want to to help kids you want to eliminate poverty you want to do this you want to do that that's where i think you know you have an opportunity to give something of yourself to the world yeah because you have the passion and desire for this people group for this cause and that's that's part of who you are so for me i'm similar to you that i grew up in ulamara in homes west housing i know what it's like to be poor it's been it was tough growing up we didn't have a lot and i walk around and i see people struggling in the street i see people around the world struggling and my wife and i really want to help these people we want to help the marginalised um and i you know it burns up inside of me and that's kind of where we want to head that's our next thing that's where you know like we're having a chat before we got on like why can't in business everyone prosper or shall prosper you know like you have you deal with someone and you negotiate and that's all good because there's room for negotiation but that person that you're negotiating with also has to pay for his and feed his family or feed her family yeah so why can't we be successful and then let others be successful too so i want to i want to change how things are done there's a thing called universal base income and it exists in places you can say that it kind of exists here if you consider Centrelink as you know a bit of a you know basic cost of living covered you still have to work for it which is fine because you know there's no free ride they can say that you can say that society brought in this structure of money it's money even a real thing and all this stuff um universal base income i i reckon it would work but i can't help but think about like all the consequences what would people do if they chose you know like okay rents paid or roof over my head the foods paid for what happens then i feel like the divide will be a lot greater potentially in terms of the lower economic and the higher economic um because the people that want to do it they will be like great i've got a base income sorted i can take more risks i can do whatever i want and i feel like as the frontrunners entrepreneurs business owners who you know i'm i'm just about to onboard staff properly first time excited and i've been thinking about how i'm going to do it a lot of it's very transparent what are you happy with where do you want to go let's do that together and i feel like they're not even working with me they're not working for me i don't like saying that they're not working with me i'm working for them because i want to help them out and i feel that will build loyalty trust and a long-term sort of thing and then they're stoked they learn and then they'll pivot one day it may not be around anymore just don't forget where you came from but um i feel like that's where leadership should go now is be more in tune with your staff i'm still seeing a lot of businesses uh you know churn and burn my staff internally and it's frustrating for me as a consultant because you start again you try to build tribal knowledge within a within a company but the the people that you've taught they they weren't happy with the boss i hear a lot on the weekend i was talking to a group of people and i said um do you enjoy the industry you're in they're like yeah but i'm like okay gone our boss is a bit micromanaging it's this is their baby and i'm like and how do you feel about that do you feel validated and they're they're young they're they they've just come out of uni they've they've landed their first job they're excited but those dreams can be crushed so bad if they join the wrong boss the wrong leader because that leader i mean and you know they say need five years experience minimum things like that sometimes you do need to take a risk a lot of the time with the new talent but you have to guide them you have to guide them you have to go right you're coming in as almost like an intern like a trainee it's going to be cheap for me but it'd be beneficial if i train them to be long-term success because that'll reflect on my i'm not seeing that i'm not seeing that it's why not and and especially with marketing this is just a marketing thing i'm seeing agencies expand and then downgrade why what's happening there that's not right i was in the health sector for a moment in time with a specific client i'm not going to go into too much detail but uh their biggest competitors were other health organizations who were bringing in graduates and you're not allowed to go to universities to pinch them because that's taboo in the north industry interesting um you can't farm them from there you have to do it like indirectly and they would um they would bring them in they'd be like yeah join our join our whatever and they would run them through the mill they're like you'd have to do it like this you have to do it like this no innovation no side thinking it's this is how we do it you get excited you finish uni you're about to get your first job you get your first job this also applies to education yeah you're getting the wrong school you get a principal that isn't forward thinking traditionally 40 years yeah you're going to be crushed but in your first experience you'll think that that's what the industry is like now for them and for the most part that's exactly what the health industry and the education industry is like anyway perform by the most part and it sucks because we we don't even get to see the best of our innovative leaders grow from the ground up because they're cut right at the roots before they even sprout because these systems are out of date because these leaders are selfish for the whole time so we are you're in tech I'm a digital kind of complementary industries we come in and we want innovation we want someone to come in and go there's a there's an easier way tell me more I'm stoked you optimize my systems I'm I'm what else can we do you know and I think what you said really struck a chord then you said it's a real mindset shift right like you know it's you work for them not they work for you and and I think that's the key I think if more employees had that mindset shift that yeah I've got an I've got a fresh graduate I'm going to work for them I'm going to help set their career up yeah rather than they're going to do everything I'm going to tell them to do and they're going to do it because I'm paying them two different mindsets because yeah once upon a time I ran a marketing agency as well so we went through that process of hiring young people and and that mindset shift I totally agree it's it's something where you know they come in they don't have any experience but they've got energy versus someone that has like 30 years of experience they're set in a specific way of doing things and they're more towards like I'm just doing this to get paid versus these young guys that just they bring that energy they bring that vibe and they just want to be the best that they can be yeah you've got to nurture that right yeah this is an interesting question that goes from that to the topic of quiet quitting I've heard a few people on LinkedIn say that quiet quitting is nonsense because you come into the industry you should do what is expected of you sorry save can you explain to me what quiet quitting I don't think I've never quite quitting is you're you've got a job and you're not you're not doing anything else but the bare minimum of what is required from you okay because you do not see you don't see a light at the end of the tunnel because your boss doesn't give a shit you work overtime they say that's expected of you they use that as an example wow quiet quitting is you are no longer wanting to push your career further because of the scenario that you're in because you just don't see you don't feel validated you don't feel wanted you don't have that sense of belonging anymore so just you quietly quit you're just doing what is asked to ask of you to get paid to get paid enough to get that's quietly quitting now and you also queue up the next job yeah and you also you're also starting to look for the next job right I've seen this happen so much more over the last couple of years especially with after the pandemic people have worked from home and realized oh my god what the hell why couldn't we do this all the time but um someone brought this up and uh and uh completely disagree with them but they said exactly what the problem at first hand is you are coming in you need to impress us to go further forward how can I come in and impress you if I'm unaware of what you want me to do yes sure you're telling me what you want me to do but if I want to impress you where's the guarantee that you're going to actually reward that extra effort instead of going great thanks you know yeah that's where the communication needs to start happening between the leaders and the rookies right there's none of that there needs to be empathy there needs to be a basic understanding of hey are you happy where do you want to be in 12 months let's make it happen let's set some goals like actionable goals because this is what I reckon every boss should do in every every job every industry all right here's your salary are you happy with this yes do you like the tasks that you've been set to do allocated every day yes um where would you like to be quarterly by yearly whatever this this and it's great all right let's negotiate not the costs but the actions because everybody told you what they want great if we can do this this and this by the end of this you know KPIs extra KPIs are you willing to go the extra mile and I will guarantee that by the time we get to that next talk you will have met them we there will be have you'll have evidence and we can go forward yeah you're almost gamified yeah almost gamified the client that I was talking about with the health industry they're trying to do that as well with the hours they're trying to like make an app about it I like that but what about with you know your standard corporate jobs even your admins yeah you know the the jobs that you know you feel like it's like a mid-midway job people need to see the light at the end of the tunnel they can't be robots they can't be put in a cubicle because they quietly quit and two things happen you are progressing in your company and if they leave it's actually going to cost you more money to hire someone else and you're starting again and that's a risk so why not do the due diligence early and go right this is a succession plan Ernest Young does it really well yeah you know I have I've got a friend and he was telling me the company he works for did the exactly the same thing right and going back to what you said said it's it's the bosses that need to listen to their staff and and and you know lay that foundation in terms of this is what where you want to go let me help you get there yeah so my friend was saying like one of the his teammates just wanted a 5k pay rise that's all and he'd been hopping on it for a long time right just a five grand pay rise per year per year that's it five grand right and I'm not going to mention the company but the company can definitely afford that anyway the boss didn't listen so that teammate left got a fifty five grand pay increase somewhere else when all he wanted was a five grand increase yeah I've heard that story so and you know what that company now has to spend all that money finding someone to replace him to train him up and they're going to have a what four to six month period where they may not be productive like that previous guy was because he had all that domain experience of the company so you know and it was just a communication thing it's just listening to your staff yeah all it is so why do you think bosses don't listen I think from from my time seeing it in corporate world as well I think it's a couple things like hidden agendas so he goes he goes that's a big thing and what what a plane and what I think it really comes down to is just prioritization so I think a lot of bosses don't prioritize their staff's needs over their own so they'll they'll go this is what my boss is telling me we need to do this is what the company's trying to achieve and that's my priority because I'm going to get my paycheck my bonus from hitting those KPIs but then what helps you get those KPIs your staff your team the teamwork makes the dream work right that's it I um yeah I was going to do all of this myself I was doing it myself and I was on the verge of burnout and then I fortunately met uh my business partner Lars who took me under his wing didn't ask for much so and just said let's build this thing so that my small portion of the ownership is my retirement fund and I'm like amazing brilliant let's do it you know I'm learning so much from him and I'm not allowing him to do it all for me because I need to learn myself he's in his later 50s he's doing okay and um that's how I'm learning right kind of like a mentorship thing but um yeah I need to really make sure that the people now that are helping me I looked after they're happy like always I'm always checking in because the most important thing is my health and if I have someone else doing things for me that they're happy to do and we've discussed it I'm healthier yeah it's a part of it's a part of a mental stress relief you know and delegation delegation is one of the most important things networking delegating sales um and physical activity and sleep those are like the and food quality down food's a big one food's a big one yeah but um yeah I I want to make sure that that that keeps happening but we're seeing more and more people jump on this which is good yeah it's amazing to think that 10 only 10 years ago it wasn't even a thing um in the mainstream um but maybe there's another thing like what if what if there's a and this is like another random app idea what if you created a service that uh businesses can take on and go right we're gonna we're gonna create this employment management thing maybe there's already a thing I don't know um where the employer employee starts on a salary it's it's in the app and it literally gamifies all their KPIs and stuff so they can meet them and all the stuff and then it upgrades them I love that stuff you know nothing more motivating playing a video game you know MMORPG and having a heads up display telling me what I need to do next in order to upgrade yeah you know level up why don't they do that in the workforce yeah absolutely it would work with any business yeah and the thing is I think one of the the big problems could be is you get a superstar player that comes in and meets them all really quickly are you able to afford to upgrade them maybe that's a thing maybe that's like where you know you play one of those games like Mortal Kombat and Street Fighter which I used to play as a kid and you get like to this bonus level and you you beat the you get to play against like the big you know big villain sort of thing uh yeah no I think that's a great idea like I think gamification is now becoming more mainstream as well but I love what I like doing is seeing what's happening in one industry and taking it and applying it to my industry so if you can see yeah gamification working really well in yeah normal games right um or sports and then we can apply that to the workplace and I think that's a brilliant idea absolutely absolutely yeah see how we go um I think there's so much more I want to talk about but uh in terms of time uh we'll leave it up to the the people to discuss things further but um how do we come about your services and where do we find you and everything you're about yeah it's a great question so uh our website is www.subamplify.com so our software is uh and our platform is all there so you can find out more about that there uh I'm pretty active on LinkedIn as well so if you just search Douglas Slim there it is there we go look at that screen there's uh who's that beautiful gentleman on the the left there oh I think it's me um no glasses no glasses on that day yeah you know why I'm wearing my glasses by the way because I go to the beach every Sunday and I've got this massive so anyway uh so you can find me more there um just search Douglas Slim on LinkedIn or my email Douglas at subamplify.com and you will hit me directly so going on the LinkedIn yeah loves it Douglas Slim on the LinkedIn how good's LinkedIn though uh mate you know what that's kind of been my next kind of hustle yeah um for the last year just going hard on LinkedIn and just giving value on that proven proven the point yeah because um when I I'm telling kids I don't care how old you are get on LinkedIn start networking with the people that can get you to where you want to be in your current field of passion yeah um whether it's someone who's even an admin talk to them get away in get your foot in the door and then start working your way up get to the I don't know maybe there's a HR person that's looking for internships my biggest problem with kids these days is they fall into the same routine where they don't understand the day to day of the job that they want to that they have to study for whether it's at in just in high school or as an apprentice or university and they spend tens of thousands of dollars hundreds even to figure out that it's not for them yeah do the practical first find a way to do it practically first look at YouTube videos look at documentaries of people doing it go interview someone in your field of what you're interested in and say to them hey can I be your assistant or like I'll work for free for a week with you I just want to see if I like this career and that's what I have work experience at school but I just don't think it's enough like I did work experience I want to be a geologist once because my my grandpa was a geologist I love I still love that stuff but the day to day course sampling in a mine I was like no I grew up in Calguli Mum wanted me and Mum suggested I'd be a mining engineer the open cup the open pit mine no way it was so boring like initially it was cool because I was like oh is that golden this one 100 samples later you find like a speck of dust and you're like all right we're drilling there now and then every did you know that every big giant truck yeah yields one golf ball of gold just one far out one big truck those big ones yeah because in this building yeah I've seen them in Calguli yeah yeah um but yeah the day to day know what the day to day is and ask yourself truly don't give don't care about your parents or what your teachers suggest your teachers are there to guide you they shouldn't be there to preach same with the parents your parents job is to make sure you stay alive and then when you leave the nest you should have enough education and self-awareness and self-esteem to go I'm going to give this a go this is something I want to do because of this this and this I don't want to come to you and say what do you want to do right now not with the rest of your life right now I want to be a doctor okay tell me the day to day of what a doctor has go on the office sit down have a meeting consult talk about it tell a patient why they're not well and tell them that they have to do this this and this it's midday you've just had 10 15 20 GP clients you've said the same thing over and over you feel frustrated in the afternoons the whole afternoon again that's just Monday do you want to do that again every day every day every day a lot of them I've actually talked to they're like yeah if I have my time again I'd do something different yeah absolutely yeah so make sure for those of you at home you love what you do or you are certain what it is that you want to do right now because again the pivot comes later is you want to do it and it's just everything for you and it's okay to change your mind yeah 100% like when I talk to young kids as well serve I I always tell them three things you know like what's one one thing that you're naturally good at that everyone else finds hard I love that that kind of gives you a clue of where what you can do and what you should do that's one thing and then second thing going back to what you said what's one area or people group that you're passionate about so you could be passionate about saving the earth okay and you're good at like product design well you put the two the two together you could be a product designer for something that like coffee cups that save the world right yeah so I kind of tell kids my kids anyway at church and stuff these are the things that you should look at yeah because I wish I I was fortunate that I was like you I thought I'd do mechanical engineering so I did engineering at uni then I realized oh my gosh these forces on bridges I have no idea but I found programming easy right like or everyone else found it hard and I was just fortunate that my engineering degree you could do one year a common year and you could then specialize after that so then I quickly and royally and rightly switched to software engineering which was my passion in which I found easier than everyone else and I'm so glad I did because I think I'd be absolutely miserable if I was a mechanical engineer no offense to make engineers like I just I'd be stuck yeah I'd be like my mate yeah I want to do something else but I can't yeah well you can you can you can it's just harder the older you are yeah it's not impossible it's just a matter of how how much you want to get out of it yeah because you can that's it all right well thanks for coming in oh pleasure sir for the chat so glad to catch up with you man yeah and everybody hitting them up you know the drill in the description of this will be all the details as well and hopefully speak to you soon and get get working together yeah sounds good easy all right guys good thanks