I'm calling to order the oops I have the wrong one second. Let's see what's up here. I pulled up the fifth. Okay, I'm calling to order the June 4th special meeting of the African heritage Reparation Assembly at 4.04pm with the extension of chapter 20 of the acts of 2021. This meeting will be conducted via remote means members of the public who wish to access the meeting may do so via zoom or by telephone. No in person attendance of members of the public will be permitted, but every effort will be made to ensure that the public can adequately access the proceedings in real time via technological means. And this is a special meeting. Did you hit record Jennifer. You did. Okay. Great. And so this is a special meeting and we will not have a public comment period for this meeting. I'm going to leave her there so that she can have some freedom to, you know, do whatever she needs to do. However, Mattia, if you have any questions or would like to be brought in just raise your hand and and we'll bring you in. So, Dr. Shabazz is not yet here and I don't want to have to do too much repeating so let me give him a quick call. I'm just going to recess us for two seconds to call him. And we'll see if he plans to be here soon. Okay. Well, let's go ahead and get started and then hopefully he will be here soon. I do not expect that Alexis will join us today. So, essentially, Miss, actually let's do a sound check Dr. Rhodes, can you hear us and can you be heard. I can hear you. All right. Yes, I can. I can hear you. Excellent.  Hi Dr. Shabazz, can you hear us. Yes, thank you. Okay, great. And Miss Bridges I see we have two of you now so maybe you're able to get your camera going on one of these. I can hear you. I unmuted it and I can hear you and I took the stop video so, but now it can't see it. It was just a black screen. I'll try this again. I'm just going to really go off on both. Okay. And see if that'll work. Okay, that sounds good. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. How about you? Can you hear us and be heard? I can hear you. Can you hear me? Yes. Excellent. Thank you. Okay. So we, as far as I can tell for our time together today, there are two main objectives. One is from our charge related to eligibility criteria use of funds and things along that line and we'll get a little deeper into that. The other piece that I'm hoping we'll be able to bring here into the, into the presence of our meeting is how we would like the voice and tone of our report to be. What I thought we could do is not necessarily to have a separate conversation about that, at least initially, but if as we're having discussion, if there's a particular voice or tone. That a member feels they would like to make sure is integrated into the report, just to simply call that out so that Mattia who is with us and is listening can be taking note of that. So just thinking about, you know, what is our attitude toward the subject and how do we want that to come through in our report. And also what voice do we want to establish in the report. I think it's, if you've read the article that I sent you all that was recently published about our work. I think it's clear that we are the second municipality. That is taking this on in the way that we that we have and that we'll be publishing a report of recommendations. And so folks both in the state of Massachusetts and I think beyond even outside of Amherst we have the state and then of course, folks outside of Massachusetts are watching what we're doing and so it's important that we are really clear about what voice or tone we want to have integrated into the report and projected out into the world. So, I am going to just quickly review the three main items that we have to discuss. And what I thought we might do is, if it's clear that we are coming to consensus on a particular item. Then we, there is no reason that the body has to vote on something by motion. If a motion is needed, then what we'll do is either if there's time will pause and have a recess and I will attempt to draft a motion that of course can be amended. Any member of the committee is able to make a motion. So, let's say Hala had something that she felt strongly about and she wanted to advocate for and have the sense that maybe she didn't know if the rest of the group was on board with that. So, let's make a motion and bring it to a vote to determine whether the body is was going to adopt that particular piece of things. So, I think in sort of the, I don't want to say best case scenario but maybe the smoothest would happen where we would come through discussion to consensus. We don't necessarily have to bring something to a vote but that doesn't mean that bringing something to a vote by motion is wrong, we should absolutely do that if we need to do that. So we'll kind of be checking in as we move through these discussions. And Ms. Bridges, I just, I don't know if you heard me saying that in addition to having these discussions on these particular topics that come from our charge. We're also going to be taking stock in terms of the tone and the voice that we want to be integrated into the report and to be projected out to the folks who will be reading the report. At any point, there's a particular tone or voice that you want to ensure is represented just, you can just raise your hand and Metia is going to be taking notes of that as well. Okay, I went in like in and out two three times I can see you, but it won't let me take start video won't let me put the put me up there but rest assured I'm right here and I'm looking at you. Awesome. Excellent. So the three items that we have specifically to talk about today are one being the ongoing funding stream and discussions of the current funding stream as well as any additional funding recommendations that we may want to make. And then the allocation plan which includes the eligibility criteria may include use of funds and, and all of that. And then the third is additional means of repair, truth and reconciliation. I, if the assembly is okay with this, I would like to start with the second of those three, which is the allocation plan and eligibility criteria I think it's the meat of our work it's probably going to take the longest for us to discuss. And I want to make sure that we have the chance to do that today, and I'm less worried about the other two items. I want Metia to be able to start drafting, you know, parts of the report that relate to that is anybody. Does anybody object to that. Okay. Great. So, I'm going to just quickly pull up the charge again, so that we can just review that. And then I'm going to hand it over actually to Dr Shabazz to kick us off on that discussion. Let me just see here where am I. Great. So, I'm going to share my screen. Can everyone see my screen. Okay, great. All right. Yes. Great. All right. It's number two, an allocation plan, including eligibility criteria, which will be determined and approved by the broader Amherst Black community through a census and community feedback process. So we're here to represent not only our own views on this, but the views that we have heard come through the residents in the various listening sessions, as well as through the survey. So with that, I am going to pass it over to Dr Shabazz to give us a framework to get this discussion started.  I was a little delayed in getting started, because I was trying to get my laptop going, but I'm having a, but anyway, I'm on this iPad and I'm not able to share screen, or have the documents in which to try and share screen but let me just offer a few comments and then see where it might go with respect to discussion. When I this part of the charge the question of an allocation plan. I would like to suggest that on the basis of the deliberations we had early on about funding streams on the basis of the array of listening sessions and community survey and input that we've received that we could think of this allocation plan. Along two lines. First, we may reach consensus before our time is up on a specific project plan or proposal of support that we want to recommend. And I think that is that is completely in order. And we should, we should look specifically at bringing forth motions around specific proposals, whereby we would recommend that funding, whether from the reparations fund that has been building, or rather from other sources that we may want to put forward. And certainly we have, through our many listening sessions, there have been certain specific ideas. But, but I leave that for others to make motions and I may make make a motion. Before it's before our time is up around specific ideas. When I look at Evanston. If you look at the first actual proposal that gain traction that was approved by the committee recommending to the city council and by the city council and the mayor. It was around a housing plan. It was around trying to address particular structures of injustice that have affected black Americans in the city of Evanston, and therefore the eligibility criterion was very specific to that specific injustice of housing of homeownership. The processes of red lining that had a negatively affected on the basis of racism, had negatively affected black Americans in Evanston. And so the eligibility criterion was very specific to that particular structure of injustice that the city sought to repair. So again, if in our allocation plan, there is a specific proposal to address a specific structure of injustice, then it would be incumbent on the proposal coming through this body that we may put in our, in our plan to then identify what might be the specific criterion so again if you look at the Evanston example, it was around people black Americans people of African descent who lived in Evanston in a particular period of the 20th century. When the racist process of red lining was going on, and that is who were then eligible to apply a list. Many people applied a list was created and out of it. On the basis of some process and initial group of people were designated to receive awards in that process. So again, our plan may encompass specific proposals along that line, and we ought to be open to that and see, but we may, we may not. So here then comes the more broad question that people have raised for us to somehow enunciate an eligibility criteria on the basis of our work and our work over these past year one year plus. And to me, it almost seems as though it is that is for more educational value than really practically what will, what will what we're recommending the council to do in in the future as from our plan, if you follow what I mean. If it's not about a specific structure of injustice and a specific recommendation we're making, then we're just enunciating a broad policy, and I'm fine for our plan to enunciate a broad policy and I've suggested three criteria is along three areas of that we, we should look at along those lines. Those three standards included a residential standard, a lineage standard, and a racial identity standard. Okay. And so if we look at those three. It's just a broad way of thinking we're recommending here, a broad way of thinking about the scope of of reparative justice or work or the scope of our work to address particular structures of injustice, but other criteria may come into play, depending on the specific issue someone is proposing to deal with. Or not to say or even to say if an individual steps forward and says, here, help me with this. So, the first then what has to do with the criterion of being a resident in the town of Amherst. Okay, we know we have many people who might have been born in Amherst, who now lives elsewhere, and do not vote in Amherst do not pay taxes in Amherst do not registered or their their their actual residency as a is elsewhere is outside of Amherst. And in that regards, unless those folks move back here to Amherst and do resume residency here or, or our established residency here, then, broadly speaking, we're saying that the the reparations work reparations proposals would not particularly address those who who live outside of Amherst. Again, there may be situations that could emerge where some flexibility in that regard might might be warranted but, but in general terms, the our local program, we could recommend a residency standard of being that one reside in Amherst. Secondly, then is this question of the lineage standard. And this has to do with whether a person is able to trace their lineage over time to someone who was enslaved in the United States. We do know that from its very beginning, even before the US Constitution, going back into the times of British colon, the British colonies, no, the only group that was subjected to enslavement, other than indigenous people, whose rights were taken, and who were effectively, you could consider them either slaves or POWs, but they, they had no rights within within the society, other than indigenous people, the only other people have been people of African descent. No European groups, no Europeans, no one from England, no Europeans were held as shadow slaves.  It's only people of African descent who was subjected in the United States of America to that form of slavery. And it evolved over time. It did, it did not exist when the first Africans stepped off in Virginia. This wasn't elaborated then in 1619, quiet as it's kept. This wasn't, this type of enslavement was not elaborated in the 1620s when the first ones come here through into the Massachusetts colony. It's by the 1660s, 1670s that colonialist governments began to write in law these kinds of criterion that allowed people to be owned, black people, people of African descent to be owned. And so we're the only group. So if you trace to an enslaved ancestor, then almost by it stands that one is also tracing one's racial identity as well as we have established this idea of, of races such as black or of African black African descent. So the lineage standard is one that I recommend we can acknowledge it as a, as a, as a criterion to be looked at. I would, I am not particularly proposing it as a definitive criterion that the only persons are the only proposals that could come through our through through future reparations plan our municipal rest reparations plan only be limited to those who have an ancestor that was enslaved in the United States, but I certainly feel we should acknowledge that and acknowledge it in the sense of what we have talked about these circles within a wider circles. So at the very center of our concern, the first circle, if we, if we wish, would be those who can trace their ancestry to someone who was enslaved in the United States, and even more specifically, who was enslaved in the area of the United States, known as Amherst, Massachusetts, whether back to 1759, when it officially broke off from Hadley, or even before that time, and the colonial period of in the period which was part of Hadley, or all the way on down to the late 1700s, and the 1800s by which time slavery, this kind of human, the legal owning of human beings of African descent was finally struck down, and the Massachusetts legislature in the Massachusetts government struck that down and you could no longer do that so from that time period of the 1600s or certainly by the time Amherst is its own municipality in 1759 on down to, let us say, 1800, then in that period, if one was can trace to someone who lived in Amherst and was enslaved in Amherst, that would be a kind of first circle of concern, a first circle. Broadening out from that would be of course someone who can trace ancestry to someone enslaved, not necessarily in Amherst but elsewhere in the United States. So that would, for example, take myself into into account and take others on this committee into account, who, while who can trace ancestry back to someone enslaved but not necessarily in Massachusetts not necessarily in in Amherst. And then even widening out from there, in terms of specific injustices that we're that we're concerned with would be those who are black who are African and have experienced racism in Amherst without necessarily having ancestry that enslaved ancestry in the United States. So that then is at the widest level of concern. And I give you, for example, if the within the the program of that that would continue from here. There was a young person who was there were young people in our high school wanting to go on the trip to Senegal or to Gambia and to learn about their roots, although they, but they, their ancestry might have been outside of Amherst or their ancestry may have been outside of the United States that was enslaved so let's say, yeah they descended from enslaved Africans but say in Cuba, or in in Trinidad, and they are unable to afford to take the trip. But if they could get a scholarship through the Reparative Justice Trust Fund or whatever it's it's to be called. be a that could be deemed a very beneficial use of those funds to support through a scholarship someone who has this ancestry is trying to learn is trying to connect and understand their African roots but again, they don't have African enslaved ancestor who was enslaved in Massachusetts or in the United States. So that's just by way of example, that if you look at it within the circles of concern and empathy, then we could still encompass those coming from that background that that may not have been in in Amherst or even in the United States, but we could have those priorities we could prioritize those concentric circles according. Finally, there is the identity standard and this has come up in reparations theorizing and writing analyses of reparations that the need for the person to be to identify and to have been officially in some way identified as black, and we have discussed it in this group, in terms of, you know, one of our own members whose birth certificate does not reflect their being black.  They have they they have lived a black experience. They are connected to the black experience through their mother, but by virtue of official government records or what have you and by virtue of of their outward presentation if you just saw them in a room. They would not necessarily be identified by others as black. But nonetheless they are nonetheless they identify in that way. And so are they to be eliminated by by a certain identity standard. I asked that we not adopt such an identity standard. There are persons for whom if you see them, they're clearly black, but there are others who again may have a black parent, but are not so identifiable. But if they identify, then I think that there could there, there, there is a basis for for eligibility there. So, I open, those are my general comments and I open this for for further discussion on those and and possibility of emotion down the line, if necessary. Thank you, Dr. Shabazz. So at this point, the the floor is open. And this could be in response to what Dr. Shabazz has just presented or could be outside of that in but sticking here with the allocation plan and eligibility criteria and I am going to go over to Dr. Rhodes. That was a good outline Dr. Shabazz, but going back to the allocation plan. An allocation means that we're going to be distributing funds. And therefore, we need to determine how the funds are going to be distributed. We're just going to be distributing those funds because we go out of business in a month when those funds are going to be distributed and how often those funds are going to be distributed and to whom. You know, and to whom is the part that, you know, Dr. Shabazz just went through went through and in terms of identifying who that is. But I think the first test for us is to look at the allocation allocation plan in terms of how we plan to distribute these funds and get rid of that. And once we've dealt with that then go down to when the funds are going to be distributed and then from there. How often. And then to whom. You can write those down. He just laid it out really, really well. I did. I'm sure Matia did. Do you want to start with the first one, the how and and if so do you have a recommendation or I really don't have a recommendation. But I believe that the how is that relates to the mechanical part of this, you know, you have funds. Now, how are you going to distribute is is are you are you going to have some process where you write out some sort of warrant to the town council for the distribution of these funds. I mean, those are mechanical kinds of processes to get the funds is so like, you know, when you when you when you are in this kind of situation where we are a part of town government. You have to have a way of asking for those funds. And so I think that's that's that's that is really not as important is important but it's not as important as the other ones because that is a mechanical thing it's a process procedural thing that we can determine. And that will almost and now I do have some suggestions for that. The, and then the second thing is, when do we wish to start distributing these funds. All right, do you know that we need to answer those. These two when and how often we need to answer that. And our report that has to be a part of our report. Okay, Dr. Rhodes, I'm going to go over to Yvonne because I see bonds hands up, but I do want to say I like the style that we're trying to trying to work within here which is, I mean, hands up does help but also having just free dialogue because we're in retreat style is also really important. So, please Yvonne. The document that Dr. Shabazz I appreciate it was really wonderful. Thank you for going through that the first I don't know where that document lives. I don't know if that's your personal document. Or that's something that we should have maybe have a copy of from the committee, but I think that all, you know, first of all, I want to say there seems to be a discrepancy between section one and section two. In section one, there's the talk about residency, and that folks need to live in Amherst to be eligible, but also we've had many conversations about what the definition of harm is for African Americans who have lived in Amherst for young people who have gone through the Amherst school system, many of whom have left Amherst because of the harm they've experienced in Amherst. So, I think that if we're looking to have residency as a criteria then there should be a more formal way for folks who have moved away from Amherst to be eligible. And we should come back to that I know it. I know that there's folks who will see the residency requirement and object. And I think and I think that we should address that before that the latter happens. There's a quote in the second section that says lived experience in town as black or African American. I do agree with that but again that's a discrepancy with the first section that says you must live in Amherst be a resident of Amherst in order to be eligible. So there's plenty of people who have that lived experience may have lived here for 20 years and moved away. So I don't understand why those folks are not eligible. I think they should be eligible. And I do agree with Dr. Rhodes that and with Dr. Shabazz that we should have very specific items in this report, like I don't think that there should be a lot of broad umbrella representation. I think things should be as specific as we can get to. And so yes who makes the decisions about who you know is there another body. Is there another committee that are we taking applications from people you know like what is the procedure around the disbursement of the funds and then more importantly I know we talked about this but I maybe it lives somewhere is where the money's coming from like what pots of money do we take claim of right away and and say that the you know we're entitled this committee or this reparations is entitled. I know some of the talk was around cannabis money. I don't know if there's others other pots of money but I feel like we could begin as well by talking about where the money's coming from as well. Yvonne, thank you. Before I go to Dr. Rhodes, I just want to clarify two things that might be helpful. I do believe that to receive reparation benefits. One will have to, they will have to have to move back and establish residency again in Amherst. So it can be somebody that has been gone for however many years but in order to receive the benefits, they would have to I believe be living in, in the municipality in which the benefits are being offered. But that is an open question that I'm making a list of questions for for council, so that we can get a legal opinion on those things. And then the other piece that I actually know you know what I'll come back to that Dr. Rhodes please. I need to get something clear in my mind so I can participate in this meeting in some formal formal fashion. Are we looking for some outcomes here that relate to first the two areas of the allocation plan. And then in terms of eligibility. I would like to have at the end of this meeting made some decisions and at least those two areas. That would be my hope Dr. Rhodes and that's why we started with this because I think it's the biggest chunk of our discussion. If we don't get to the other items I'm confident we'll be able to get to them in our meetings that are coming up. But I would like to for us to walk out of here and have some outcomes that we've accomplished. So for me, and forgive me if I'm being formal about this because I think this we need to be careful of our time. And at the end of the meeting have some products that we have decided on. So I would like for us to focus on the allocation plan. And the first of that would be as the how but I can set aside how because I'll come back to that's a formalistic thing. It's the when and how often and to whom and actually the other one before that who is going to be distributing these funds. This assessor to our organization, which we need to define. So those areas are really important for us to concretize before then this meeting. So we can move forward. So I'll just say that based on what I have observed from town government. We may want to create a mechanism a system as a process by which particular initiatives are brought brought forward to a body. So I'll just, for example, say if there was a body that was recommended by this group. That body similar to the body that looks at the block funds that come into the town or that looks at the CPA funds would accept proposals this is one way that this could look they would accept proposals from residents from other committees for use of the funds, and then that committee would vet the various proposals that came in and determine how the money would be allocated. Another way to do it is more what Evanston did which was to identify have that stakeholder body itself be the identifying body so that body said, we believe housing is the first place that we want to look because of the red lining. So there, that's two different ways of doing it do we want this to be community, the community brings initiatives forward to a body that then vets those initiatives, or do we want that body to determine based on the harms that it knows have occurred in the community, how the, which particular repairs to address and in what timeline. So I think we need to consider which one of those or some combination of both. And then the other piece I want to make clear just in terms of where the money lives so that that, so that we have that in our mind is the money lives in a stabilization fund that is specific for reparations. It will be growing year by year. And so one of the things that we need to consider is whether we're looking at that fund as more of an endowment where the principle is going to remain and stay as it grows and each year because this gets to one of Dr. Rhodes questions about when each year, whatever the, the sort of rate is that an endowment would allow you to skim off that amount will be used in the very early years we're talking like, you know, less than $10,000 available to make a benefit. So we have to think about do we want to build this fund up and wait to start allocating funds until it's been built up to some point, or do we want to skim off that bit each year and have a particular initiative that is 10,000, you know, the cost is 10,000 or So, I want, I want to be clear that there's not $2 million sitting in a bank account right now this is growing over time and if we want it to be more like an endowment to sustain it over a longer period of time that we have to put that into our report and make that wish very clear in the report. You know, Michelle I think that it doesn't have to be either or it should be both. Okay. I mean, that is whoever our successor group is can take applications, and they also can suggest shouldn't be either. I mean, that then makes it a really strong point and that's something we don't, you know, we don't have to debate that it goes right into our recommendation, in terms of this committee. The other thing is that in terms of what you, in terms of what you said usually in an endowment fund endowment will have X amount of money. And it is set up where the, it is stated within the endowment documents that a certain percentage of the principal amount. In terms of the amount of interest that has been been earned that a certain percentage of that will be distributed on a year to year basis. And the reason for that is, let's say you have a million dollars and it and it earned 5%. So that's $50,000. What percentage of the $50,000 do you wish to distribute now, some really conservatively managed funds will say you shouldn't distribute any more than 5% of that. Those who on the other hand say are you got 50 earned $50,000. Why not return $25,000 of that and have that continue to grow and take the 25,000 and distributed therefore you're distributing 50% of the amount that has been earned. So but you know, those and endowment fund, those are the principles that allow the endowment to a grow and to be there over time, while at the same time providing benefits for those who is designed for. Absolutely. Absolutely. Yes. So, if we think about, you know, if we're thinking about moving this in the direction of a successor committee, what we want to provide to that successor committee by way of our recommendations is a very clear charge. That charge tells the successor committee that it can take applications from residents and maybe there is a window of time in which those are taken and then vetted and then approved or not. And that it also as a body can make its own recommendations based on a certain criteria. And then we need to tell that successor committee in the charge how the endowment is to be which is the exactly what Dr Rhodes is just talking about so how is this fund meant to be managed. And so if we, I think, and then more specifically the charge has to address the eligibility criteria and it may be different, it may be different for different initiatives. There's more weight for the small the circle that is the focus in the in the middle that Dr Shavas was talking about and then as, you know, as we brought in, perhaps, you know, there's a different, there's a formula there. I think that if we can think about that, that if we are all in agreement that a successor committee with a charge that gives this very specific information to within the charge to the successor committee and that includes also composition of the committee. I think that will formulate a good structure for us. Dr, please. So I would like us to settle on one part of this at least and that is two parts of it. The first is that a successor group or whatever the successor community committee is who will be in charge of distribution of funds will will be able to do it under, you know, two sets of circumstances that we have already outlined. So we need to make sure that that's that's one part of we decided on unless there is any descent in terms of that. The second thing that I would like to recommend it in terms of the fun in terms of how it's managed and how funds are just how and when funds are when funds are distributed is that we go on the Jones library in terms of how their endowment operates, which is similar to how all other endowments right and it's a model that we can use and the town would understand it and everyone in the town would understand it. We're that that that we're that we're going to use and mimic that model of how the Jones library endowment fund is administered. So we don't know that we don't have to go and reinvent something it's already there. So I will jump in at this point, trying to get a little more specific about this how question. So we're hearing now to an almost three different ideas. One that was first brought up brought up here today by Michelle but we actually even talked about it. I brought it up way back when we first organized and that's looking at the Community Preservation Act model. The second model now is the Jones library which operates which has its own board of trustees and has its own endowment funds. And then thirdly, with the word or views warrant, it conjures the old model of town meeting select board. Let's take each of those three and look at what those possibilities might be for the black community, the African heritage community and Amherst to, in a way, have a stake in this, these funds and how they're decided upon. In the CPA model and I asked people to rescue me if I'm wrong, but this is a specific board that oversees proposals that comes through. It has a designated stream of funds that are collected in taxes and a certain percentage that goes every year into a CPA Community Preservation Act pot. I think it may even get certain matching allocations from the state. And there is a town committee that administer those funds. And here's the one I'm asking for folks to confirm. Is that group elected. Are they on the ballot periodically and that membership we're looking at elected, as well as appointed. I see there's a planning board member there's a, but is the at large people are they elected or are they appointed. They are appointed, I believe, by the town manager. So this is a total. Alright, so now let's jump to the Jones Library model. Now that has a board of trustees that is elected. It's elected on the town ballot periodically. And so the people of the town get to go and vote those members on is that correct. Yes, that that is correct. And then there's also a separate part of that there is a. And I'm struggling to remember, but there is a second part of that in which the endowment fund is separately administered with the collaboration of the trustees and I'm going to go back and look at that but that's how I think it is. The friend are you talking about the friends of Joe. Right, right. Yeah, it's, it's. Yeah. Yeah. Because there's that endowment fund came through years and years and years ago and it is separate. Yes, the elected official. Sure. No, I got that. And then, but the, but the regulatory body over that are those trustees we saw right. Yes. But then the friends can be a separate 501 C three or whatever that raises funds that they then in turn give to the Jones, to the Jones Library, that's been approved for by the trustees how it's used. Is that fair to say. Yeah, yeah, again, I'm, I'm, you know, I'm just, I don't have it all in my mind. Yeah, there are two groups that are that are that are part of that Jones library. And the other group are God knows how they, how they get there. But anyway, but go through that someone just brought all that up, but go through it. I mean, I, you know, and I don't, I'm wanting to know where you're going with this to best so I'm reviewing, I'm reviewing these three, these things I want to review these three different models to see if our thinking might pull out of it. A best practice, a best idea for us to go. The third one is, when you raise the idea of a warrant, the way I think about that is, how might the black community of Amherst come together and invent warrants that are then turned in to the town via whatever the the then successor body might be. Is there a mechanism by which the general community black community could do it and so I've taught in my mind, could we create a black town meeting so to speak. And this black town meeting would meet a couple of times a year, people wanting to debate different proposals before this black town meeting would would submit those in the form of warrants that people attending the black town meeting could could read beforehand, but then they get there, there would be a moderator who would regulate the debate, and then folks could look at all of those different warrants and vote and make their recommendations. And when I think of the black town meeting I'm not talking necessarily about town meeting members that get elected by districts. I'm talking about more like the Pelham, or more like the direct model that anybody black could show up at this black town meeting. They live here in Amherst, they, and they can then vote right there in that meeting in the discussion of the various warrants, and then that those those things they would vote from their periodic meeting would then go to the council or to the to the to the successor body that we're talking about to then send on to the council and that and that successor body could be kind of like a select board, they would stay they would meet a year round to keep attention on the things that came through the warrants and and refine them or whatever to send them through various committees planning board, CPA whatnot they would be the body to interact with that on the ongoing basis through the year and at the town meeting, but they could elect those those select board so to speak, or those successor body members. So, three different ideas, and I'm just outlining them just by virtue of, because it's it's come up in our discussion, but I think it's for us to then think, what would work best as the mechanism whereby the stakeholder of black folks in Amherst could have their wishes be heard and translate it into specific projects proposals that that then the successor body we're talking about would would continue to work on and move through the council and whatnot for for funding. That's a pretty good. That's the guy, it's a good idea. That's, that's, I think it's right on. I mean, I think, I think having those two particular bodies you have one that's, you know, a general community from the black community who come together on a periodic basis and say here's there's some things we would like to bring forward in terms of how in terms of usening these funds for that then would go to an actual body that has been, you know, appointed by the town manager, who then takes those looks at them and then sends it on to the town council for both that that works. I think it works really well and it in a streamlined and it and it really would engender community support in the black community. In terms of in terms of participation. In terms the other party and CPA funds, CPA funds are, you know, come from not only the state and federal government on an annual basis and then they're distributed through the CPA. Our funds, however, already there and they get added to early every year via formative is already been determined. So, those funds are there. It's, it's, it's the, the thing I what I want to put to bed is that process you outline Shabez. I think it's a good one. And then we're to go with that. What I want to, I like we just put it to bed. And the other one is that I like to put the bed is is all right we got these funds. What portion of those funds are we going to expand on a yearly basis and what model are we going to use, are we going to be use the endowment model model that the Jones library goes by, which I would suggest because it is the model that everyone understands how an early is involved in it and knows it. You know, so people understand that we don't, we don't have to invent I'll have to explain that people know that. So I'm suggesting that we use that model. Okay, great. So I'm going to go to Ivan and then I'm going to go to Ms bridges. Isn't there already a black assembly that's been meeting pretty regularly. And so I do think that that, I mean, some of, I don't know how we're, we're only in session as a committee until the end of this month, correct. Well, until our report is completed and and presented to the town council. So I think if you know this idea which I think as well as a good one of this black town meeting I feel like it's going to be really important to collaborate with the black assembly to make that be something that is actually really accepted, you know, and, and usable. I also wanted to ask a question about, I mean, maybe I'm the one who doesn't know but what what the specifics are of the Jones library model. I do agree with Dr Rhodes that if there's something that's already in place that's easy to communicate and to adopt that that that takes that makes it our job a little bit easier and we don't have to like be creating something from scratch. And then, before this meeting is over I want to revisit the requirements for the residents, because I do think that there's a way for us to include a clause where we discussed how non residents might be eligible. And they, and I know that there's probably a legal aspect to that. But I do think honestly that a lot of the conversations that we had about harm excludes having a residency requirement like that excludes a whole number of people who would or could still be living in Amherst who chose not to live here anymore. You know, if they've lived here for 10 years if they can prove their residency within a certain amount of time, they should be able to be eligible. I don't think we should exclude those people. And I think there's many. I think there are many. I have a feeling you're right. And that's top of the list here in terms of legal questions for the town attorney because I think that would be really, really important for us to get an answer to and to know what flexibility we do have maybe there are any particular criteria that we would have to follow for somebody who's out of state but we can. Exactly. I just don't think that that's impossible. I actually think it's pretty easy for somebody, you know, someone who's gone through the school system from preschool to high school and graduated and went to UMass and then moved somewhere, you know what I mean, there are so many people who fit that criteria and can prove it. You're talking about people who moved, who went to school here and et cetera, they moved away and then came back, but who are now current residents. No, no, I'm talking about people who went through the whole school system went to school here, and let's say they even moved to Northampton, and they don't live here anymore, you know, or they moved to New York. That will be dead on arrival, because we're dealing with, you know, Amherst funds and they're going and saying this is going to be for Amherst residents. That wouldn't go anywhere. Well, let's let's let's ask the question because there might. I think that your instincts are right Dr Rhodes that the council would probably be would oppose that as with the town but there there's a really good case for why and so we need to really think about. There are, we know the housing issues that exist here now we know the affordability we know the sense of belonging there are so many reasons we could go on and on that people would move out of this community. So, I think we need to ask the question and try to see and be creative in the way that we approach it. I agree I think we need to be the ones who say that this is important. And if the town says we don't support that which you might be right, Dr Rhodes I'm sure that someone's going to say that's not going to fly, but that's not because we didn't bring it up. Yeah, I mean, to bring it up, I would oppose it because it doesn't fit. Don't live here you're using taxpayer money, etc. And you and we're going to, you know, and there's too many needs for people who are here. I agree but there can be there can be levels of that of of how these funds get distributed. Do you know what I'm saying you can and and it I've seen it many times it's not all or nothing. There are there are levels and I think that we will get a lot of criticism if we don't at least address it. I want to address it. Even though I would oppose it, but, you know, because, you know, that which is addressed you cannot be accused of not addressing the thinking about and just dismiss it out of hand. I also disagree and think that it's valid. There's so many people who would still be living in this town except that they had such a horrible experience from high school.  And maybe even it is some exit interviews like why are you no longer in Amherst, the affordability the hostility so yes, from a taxpayer maybe it's dead on arrival but let's have these conversations who have we driven away how many brilliant minds and artists and contributors to our community and what could we look like if we hadn't. So I like the tiered approach thinking about it expanding in what it means and just at least having the conversations with some so yeah sorry to jump in I just wanted to say I agree 100% with you even and there's more to say about that but I'm going to let us keep on because we got a lot to go. Thank you. Yes, and I'm going to go to Ms bridges. Before you get to you Dr Shabazz but I just want you to just keep in mind that if there was an out of town resident who could receive a down payment for a house in Amherst. So someone they they've left Amherst because they couldn't afford it. They've identified a condo or a home or land in Amherst that they could receive down payment for. It's a great example of where it would make complete sense to provide a reparation benefit to someone that's not a current resident. You're talking about a person who is committed to move back to Amherst. If it's a possibility if they're going to they're going to move back, if they're able to achieve housing. Yeah, but they they wouldn't be eligible with the criteria the way it is now because they wouldn't be a resident. Exactly. Right. So there has to be something right there has to be something some kind of way to address that. That's the bridge and we can yeah we'll come back to that. All right, Ms bridges, I saw that you had your hand up a couple times. Can you hear us. But this this is just going in and out and I've been like leaving and back like at least 10 times. I myself I have to lean on the side of her because I had harm I was born and raised here I had from years old. I think. Miss bridges is reconnecting now. Okay. Yeah, I'm back. Okay. I was just saying I had harm. As you know my little story from fourth grade with the teacher. And I had harm from, you know, every once in a while up until I moved away when I was 40, and I was gone for over 20 years. I am back now but if I don't think if I didn't come back that I would feel that I was being gone over 20 years I don't feel like I would be eligible. And I would feel like I would be knocking somebody else out. So to speak. Why would you feel that way. Because if I was gone for like over 20 years and I'm fine and I'm not here. I would feel that somebody who's stayed here and has been here and has keep going through this, that they would be more. They would, I would feel like they would be more more eligible than me. It doesn't invalidate your, doesn't that invalidate your experience though. It doesn't invalidated it's still there like anybody all over the country. It's not going to, it's not going to do that. I'm, I still have it in my heart I know what happened. But I would just kind of feel like, you know, pushing somebody aside, that's been here that stayed here I left. I didn't leave because of that. I didn't leave because I was having problems I left because I wanted to leave. Because I thought it would be better for my, my daughter. And I had another a better opportunity. But that's just how I feel I mean it's just, you know, and another thing I would be concerned about all right. But once this is done over, who actually allocates this money to people, I don't think we should do that. And you might have missed that part of the discussion Miss bridges. So we were talking about another body that would be would have certain like a charge where the composition of the body would be very clear to the town manager. It would be set up like he does with any other town committee, an interview body that would take applications for the committee and so that body would be the one allocating and really would be the keeper in many ways of the fund because what I want to remember is at any time, any year, any council can decide that they are not going to contribute the 200 or whatever $1,000 it is in that year and that there is nothing that in trines it into, you know, there's no bylaw. Oh, I was just saying, no, no, I was just I was just following up on that there will need to be that body that is appointed by the town manager with particular criteria in terms of the compositions that he's very clear. And that body is going to have to make sure that not only are they if we go with this black town hall town meeting which I absolutely love. If we go with that model, that body is going to have to also deal with making sure that there's somebody who is getting into the council on a yearly basis or the finance committee to ensure that that money is going to get transferred so that that body will have a pretty hefty charge, but it will be the keeper of all of that. Oh, okay. Does that. I mean that's what we're proposing at least is and yeah I'm sorry because I just mind this like this is just keeps going in and out and I keep having to leave it, or it kicks me out and I got to keep coming back in so I might be missing a few things so forgive me if I'm going over something you already talked about. No, no worries at all. What is that one of the things that I mentioned was also the Jones library model for their endowment. So what are the specific things that we can adopt that would be beneficial for us if we, you know, utilize that model. I was just trying to look that up even and I haven't gotten to it yet, but I will. That's a great question and if Dr Rhodes is suggesting that we don't reinvent the wheel or that perhaps we take what they have used and make some modifications that are specific for us. We may not need to at all. Dr Rhodes do you have. We can get that from the Jones library but the Jones library is a model of that is used throughout the country. You know, and throughout and also it's also a model that's used for individual funds portfolios. It's a standard model is not that something that's, you know, it's right there and and is embedded in the endowment of documents of the Jones library is very easy for us to get a hold of that. The difference in that Jones is a public 501 see whatever it is, and the successor body we're talking about appointed by the town manager that would receive proposals from the black community. So what I'm saying is maybe there's some ways in which what I heard you as raising as the endowment model is simply to say that the existing stabilization fund that is earmarked for reparations. I think that we are not talking about spending that the decision we're trying to reach consensus on is that we're not talking about recommending an allocation plan that calls for spending out the $2 million commitment over the next two years. Over the next five years, we're going to spend out whatever comes into that stabilization fund that instead. Here's the extent of where the model exists. We're saying we want that money locked up continues whether in the stabilization fund or whether it needs to migrate to a separately administered that part I'm not I'm fuzzy on I don't know if Michelle or if you're talking about migrating it out of the town stabilization fund is that what is going on here. You know, I just thought about it. The town, the town has all kinds of funds that are unexpended. All right. Those funds go into an account that account then earns interest. All right. Now, what I am talking about in terms of the endowment model is, all right, if the if the town is holding that money and it's gaining and it's, you know, gaining interest. What if any part of the interest that we want to spend, expand on a yearly basis. And when I say the Jones model or whatever, what what they would decision is made to say, well, we're not going to spend, you know, we're going to not going to spend all of that that the interest that is accrued, we're going to spend some of that. And those are decisions that then that has to be made, either before by us right now, but certainly by the body that succeeds us. That's an important decision. But let's get clear where we are maybe approaching some consensus so if so we're saying. And this kind of requires putting on the finance committee hat. I'm just saying let's continue to build through the free cash model we've been on that has us up to maybe somebody's got the right number 400 and something thousand. And keep that going to till it has has already been agreed upon by the council to where it gets up to 2 million. Are we talking about separately administering that in its own endowment fund, or does it just continue to be invested by the town and with the understanding that at some point we can start drawing the specific interest. That's all I'm trying to get. Are we going to have that ultimately be administered like the Jones library as a as a specific endowment, you know, that that may still be handled by the same investment company, but but is a separate entity. Once it reaches 2 million. Yeah, yeah, I think that that that Those questions. My mind have already been answered been answered net that they're going to be administered by the town. The town's going to do with it. It has been doing in terms of you're right. I think you're right. There are other funds that are like that. That is particular funds that I the name excuse me in terms of those funds that are there. And they are then handled by the town here. Those funds would then be put in the hands of in terms of expenditures by this other group that I guess the group. They then will decide. Well, you know, how much of that. They want to expand, but from our point of view, from my point of view, it would be. I would like to say that are the charge that comes to us is that the town administers those funds and whether they they do for enterprise funds that they administer right now. And at some point in time, a determination is made that. How are you going to expand or spend the interest portion of the funds or are you going to the interest portion of the funds and how much of that interest portion of the funds are you going to you going to expand on a yearly basis. Those are questions. Well, let me make a bold suggestion. The town already has 2 million, more than 2 million that is is an investment money. Why can't it go ahead and just say we've got reparations has 2 million now. You dig what I'm saying, and we don't have to continue waiting on this little game for 10 years before it reaches 2 million. And we've then got the interest amount. I'm going to get them to go ahead and approve that there is a $2 million established account for reparations. And that the interest of that you can begin spending in 2024. Boom. Yeah, I mean, I would, I would, I would, I would, I got, I got to think about that for a moment because you could say that because money is continuously coming into the, the stabilization fund for reparations. All right. You know, you know that that's going to continue coming in. You, you could. You could project. That hey, 2 millions already there. Here's the annual interest rate in which it's going, it's going to accrue. Why not distribute whatever portion of that that the successor groups thinks is prudent to expand at that point in time. Because then the wind becomes 2024, but possibly, rather than 2020 10, I mean 2030. Because right now it's on the boat that we're not getting any interest until 20, I mean, from this, this, this, a theoretical fund. We wouldn't be eligible to draw any interest and start spending for reparations till 2030. All right, so here. I just want to ask you to pause one second. Jennifer had her hand raised and I just want to make sure there's not an issue that she needs us to deal with Jennifer. No, I just had some questions but continue please. Here's what I would like to do. And I got one of my saying this was my time anyway. I would. I would like to set, sit down with Sean. And get a financial model together to do exactly what milk cars talking about.  But anyway, it, it needs to be done. And Sean is a person to do it and it's not like hours meeting is probably like a 30 to 45 minute meeting because the models are already there and the calculations are already there and he puts it into computer as this. Here's what it where it is. Anyway, I will, I will agree to do that. But it'll be important. We clarify, hold on. If we just clarify what Dr. Rhodes is proposing doing because I think that the council has made itself clear that they want the flexibility on an annual base basis to decide whether they have the funds to take from the certified free cash and move. Are we now asking a remaking a different ask, because that is not going to be a 30 minute conversation with Sean. We're not making that we're not making a different ask we are not, we're not going anywhere above and beyond that. What's already there, for instance, an assumption can be made that 150,000 is going to be distributed into this account every year for the next eight years and something could be made. All right, that if you then assume that at the end of 10 years there's going to be $2 million. Right. If you say there's $2 million in there and you're going to expand. That's percent of that. Let's say 5% of the interest interest, the $2 million earned interest of 5%, which is $100,000. You can then say, All right, what percentage of that do we wish to expend of the $100,000. I'd say I'd say 100 but you've raised the thought, the thought experiment of 50,000. Because you want, yeah, so you say $50,000. All right, you want to spend $50,000. So, so Sean, we have X number of dollars in this account right now, we know it's going to grow to $2 million. If we take out $50,000 and using the discounted cash flow, you can then determine what that's going to look like. In terms of impact on your fund over a period of time. It is those calculations are done in fact. Yes, it's a brilliant idea. Dr. Shabazz, in fact, that $50,000 could be expended. And so Michelle, we're trying to ask, can we get 50K in 2024 for our successor group. I have this little calculator here and I'm just wondering just so we can do an exercise real quick is this so with this, what would we input into this to try to under so you're basically saying is we're pre, we're taking the interest. We're suiting the $2 million and taking the interest on that $2 million in year one, as opposed to trading until, okay, I think I understand. Yes, yes. And that that might be I would say it would probably be about an at least an hour and an hour and a half station with Sean and some other stuff but that's that that's an interest that's interesting and you're suggesting just to be clear that this gets done. Yeah, separate from the report recommendations that this body deals with that. Is that what you're that we deal with it now like you go in and have your meeting next week and talk to Sean and see if that. And then I think that it should be a report part of the report. I think it will have to be approved by the council. I'm going to approve of that the council say alright guys, you want to take up $50,000 this year. We will then through the calculations that Sean has done be able to debit that over time. That would have impact on on on what would be happening 10 years hence, and the impact 10 years hence would be miniscule. Got it. Two things I just wanted to throw out there in case they're relevant here is there are and have already been requests from private individuals who want to contribute so we need to think about what we're going to put in terms of recommendations for how the the successor body will handle private funds or contributions. Somebody could leave their whole house to the fund they could there are a lot of different possibilities and we need to have clarity on how we want that to be handled by the committee. The other thing is, we do need to make a decision about special legislation and whether we are going to want to pursue that based on giving direct bent benefits. I think my feeling is talking seeing if Paul will allow us to have 30 minutes with the town attorney or whatever amount of time he will allow us to have to revisit the special legislation and to understand what of our recommendations actually would require special legislation like is a direct payment for a down payment on a house considered. Is that considered where special legislation would be needed. And then also to address how we might deal with private funds, as well as out of town residents and how that will be looked at so I know that's a little outside of the scope of the allocation plan conversation but those are things that were on my list to make sure that we start to think about. I'm going to call a five minute recess so that if folks have to use the bathroom because I do. So let's return actually even four minutes at 535 and we'll have about a half an hour left. So recess until 535. Okay, if you're back, you can just turn on your camera to let me know you're here. Just if you could turn your, I know you can't turn your camera on Miss Bridges are you back. I see fun. How are you back. While they check in. I can ask Yvonne. Yes. Of course yeah. Yeah. Yvonne I'd be prepared to amend the residency language, the language on the residency standard to include the possibility of of projects or initiatives that might address. Persons with lived experience and Amherst who currently do not reside in Amherst as well, whether or not the benefit ultimately mandates that they return or be an Amherst or not. I hear your point on that and I'm prepared to to revise the language I'm recommending on that now say this for this reason. Two things one. I used to live in Tulsa I live two years in Tulsa. And I know that from the racial, the race massacre of 1921, where people were actually had to leave Tulsa in fear of their lives, and were unable to return to Tulsa, because of fear of their lives. And there was particularly at someone that I've written about Andrew Smitherman, who was a newspaper editor had a black newspaper weekly newspaper in Tulsa and the, the racist there did not like him they did not like his truth telling about what was going on in Tulsa So he left and moved to New York State, his, his business was burned out he suffered great, great harm, and it just was not safe for him to return. But if there had been a reparations proposal in Tulsa, it would have been objectively, it would have been completely warranted that they inverse Mr. Smitherman for hit for the harm and the damages he suffered, regardless of whether he would return to Tulsa, he absolutely would have been entitled, in my view, to to reparative justice to reparations Of course, reparations has never yet occurred in Tulsa, in terms of any kind of cash benefits, they have built a community center it's called the Greenwood Community Center, they have done a number of things to try to memorialize and, but in terms of direct benefits to any of the survivors, it remains a shame on on Tulsa that there's no home that that is not occurred. So, but, so anyway, flowing from that idea, if there was, as you point out, as you say, a very objective case of someone who experienced real harms in Amherst, and felt unsafe to live here and have felt unsafe to return, but a real case could be made of serving a benefit, even perhaps a cash benefit 1000 5000 20,000 I don't know what could be the whole little amount we're talking about here for one year, the whole 50. If it was serious enough that any objective mind, any of us with empathetic heart could read it could hear the story and say you know what, yes. And, and further that the rest of the town could could understand that, then I say yes we should not preclude that simply on the basis of, you know, we want to keep the money in Amherst we want to keep any money given out to somebody in Amherst. So, I could definitely revise allow that possibility. Right, I appreciate it and agree just be you know the people I'm thinking of our students that were involved specifically with some of the work we were doing that at UMass with New World Theater. And I can tell you how many young people from the group that we used to call 2050 were harassed to the point of living of not living in Amherst always leaving the town and, and I just don't think that and I'm sure I mean that's just one small example I have in my mind the young people I spoke with that were like I'll never step foot there. I can't live there. You know, I'm being targeted, like I can't drive my car without being stopped I can't walk the street without something happening. I'm going to move away. I'm not just, you know what I'm saying so I don't think I and I think there are many, many other people who have that experience I'm sure Hala and others here might know of people who have said that to, you know, specifically so I don't think that it's there for us to let the town off the hook for that kind of experience. 100% Rachel. Okay, Dr Rhodes. You're muted Dr Rhodes. Where I'm coming from is, yeah, there is one, one person that I know who no longer lives in Amherst that definitely should be compensated for Dr driver. True. True. 100%. 100%. There's a place there. There's no doubt about that something should be some amount of money. All right, and I agree with that. But I don't agree for other people who were here and then left, and they're no longer here. And that then they should be compensated in some way, unless they were moving back into Amherst and needed homeowner assistance or something like that. But if they were not going to be moving back into Amherst, then I would oppose that and because that's a cash payment. There's something we're not even empowered to do anyway. So, let's keep the door open. I said we should keep the door open. I agree. That's what I think. We heard you. You made a brilliant example. You just gave us a brilliant example. Yeah, that's, you know, that is something that I would stand in the middle of town hall and say we got the money. Let's give it to him. And that also I want us to think about how that actually also speaks to the university's role, potentially, and the, or any institution that would be involved in a situation like that. Yes.  And so, yeah, I think that that this is this is important work and it goes a lot deeper than I think that this little committee can take care of by the end of June, you know, I mean, but, but because we're writing this report. I think those things need to be reflected in the report as something that as something that maybe the next group that takes this on can take on with some clarity. To be to be clear in case someone's listening to this professor driver was a professor at the University of Massachusetts. The Associated Press put out a report on his experience of being paid basically paid differently than his white peers. And so that is a particular example in which it's you'd have to determine who was culpable for the full harm there, whether it was the town or the university or some combination. Michelle, other kinds of harms as well, even of what not able to find a house, go outside of Amherst to be able to find a house, you know, other ways he and his family were targeted on and off campus here in Amherst. Absolutely. That's a great example of where both the town and the institution were. It should. That should be exhibit a. Yep. Of our moral responsibility for taking account of and being responsible for that was just now perpetrated on an individual and their family. This is something that I would see as being front and center of our report in terms of reparations. 100%. And, and that when we say, hey, you know, we don't do individual reparations. All right, that here is a crystal clear example. Yeah, of where we should be doing reparations and we should be actually be doing reparations in conjunction. Yeah, the university. And then the other exhibit B is the house. The Amherst college was supposed to deal with and they deal they dealt with it in a dishonorable manner. Exactly dishonorable manner. 100% see Amherst college. I believe would take responsibility for that. If we wanted that out. And our report and then presented to them. The evidence that this occurred. And they need. They need to take steps to repair repair. So full transparency sake, I will share that I met with President Elliott at Amherst college about the Coleman family. And their property there. And I am. That's for another discussion because I would like to be able to speak with you about that with more articulation and with some other additional information. But President Elliott was very open to taking the information that I provided, and also open to following up to continue the discussion for how that can be researched and repaired. I also met with TC and his sister at their home and, and had was able to have a discussion with them about about that. So I think what I'm hearing and then I'm going to go to Miss Bridges is that our report will may and will I think also include some very narrowly tailored recommendations some very specific recommendations about specific cases. And I think Matia and I have already discussed that actually at some length so I'm going to go to Miss Bridges now Miss Bridges. I had my hand up but this thing is not working just keeps kicking me out. I don't know that kicking me out so I'm just a few of it. But I wanted to just let Yvonne know would be nice to, to have a conversation with her. And Michelle you look frozen. So I don't know if you hear me. We hear you. I hear you. Okay, you're frozen. I don't know what's wrong with this but I'm going to. Oh, we lost him as Bridges. While we wait to see Miss Bridges comes back. Jennifer. So I just wanted to check in about like the timeline of reparations. Is that is she back in. Okay, go ahead. I'm back in. I'm sorry. Just keep me. I just wanted to, you know, when you have time to really think. I just, you know, it would be nice to have a conversation with Yvonne and just think about, you know, what happened, how far away, how far back it was and, you know, what I was thinking about. But it would be nice to really talk to Yvonne more and hear what she has to say more about it. Sure, I can do that now because we need to have our time. No, not now, not now. Yeah, but I, but yeah, there are, there are examples, you know, so. Sure, sure. Okay. Okay. Okay, good. Okay. Jennifer. I guess I just don't fully understand like the length of time that reparations will occur. Like is it ongoing or is it like a short term or like I'm just trying to figure that piece out or understand that piece. And because it makes a big difference and I think to some degree how things are distributed. And then also I cannot stress enough about trying to find other ways of funding like I still think that that solar proposal that we had a while ago. And maybe the project, not be the solar itself, but that was a great example of the way that the town could help some of the harm that's been done to the black community by setting them up with their own like business, but letting them be separate. Right. Like, similar to the way that that solar proposal was. And then also, so when it comes to individual payouts to an individual, if that's the way that the group goes, I don't understand why wouldn't we just can't we just contract with someone as opposed to going through special legislation. Isn't that what Evanston did. No. Well, they did in the sense that they write so they went through a mortgage company to to allocate the down payment money for a bank. There was quite a bit of opposition to that. I mean, it wasn't the right decision but there, you know, there was opposition to that. But I think you're making an excellent point and I think given, and if everybody has a chance to re review the legal opinion that we got way back, that was one of the issues. And that's where I think Jennifer having Lauren visit with us again now that we're at this stage would be really really helpful Lauren is the KP law attorney that we've worked with previously. And I, and I, I just think that my only other concern about the possibly taking out the money in 2024 instead of waiting to 2030 which I completely understand. But as Michelle said earlier, the council is not, I mean, it's good hopes that they will give us that money each year but there's the possibility that some years we don't get it and then how does that impact it. So I have a solution for that that I'm going to present but let's go to Dr. Rhodes.  I want you and Dr. Rhodes to have it. Well, I guess, and then back to the length because as long as harm is done then there should be reparations and so then how do we continue that throughout, you know, whatever amount of time. I'm not always concerned about the funding piece I've been concerned about the funding piece from the very beginning so. I think I have a solution that in my town counselor role I might be able to that I'd like to present. But let's go to Dr. Rhodes first and. No, no, we are all all endowments. And this is no different. The assumption is that money will be continued to be contributed on an annual basis. All right. And that annual and the contributions will be somewhat uniform. Now, sometimes it won't be some years it will be more. And some years it will be less. And relationship to how our money comes. To us, some years it may be less and some years it may be more. Now, that unequal cash flow distribution is a challenge in terms of calculation. But everyone who deals with money on any kind of long term basis has to make certain assumptions. We do that as a town every year, year after year, in terms of making assumptions in terms of how money is going to come in when it's going to come in and how we're going to spend it and what timeframe we're going to spend it, we make those assumptions. Those assumptions are standard kinds of assumptions. Otherwise, if we didn't make those assumptions, we would not be able to operate. So, the same kind of assumptions will be made in relationship to expenditures of the money that we were, we will be suggesting, we will make those assumptions. Sean will make those assumptions.  All right, so that is not a fear for me because I know Sean's a smart dude and, and I know that when we sit down and go over this weekend, we can deal with it. And Jennifer to your to your to your question is, yes, we have, we have agreed with the town in terms of the money that comes into our account. And agreed on the method is agreed on. All right, the only thing that don't we don't know is how much each year will be put in there. But we have agreed on where it's coming from we know what their funding stream is. All right, and that is known and it's an agreement that has been made. So, the only other thing is, hey, should we add to that. Should we identify other sources of funds. That's for this committee to identify. And then to go back to the town council says hey, why not here. You know, I think in terms of my mind if I were going to do it. Hey, look, let's, every year, the CPA gets a portion of money allocated to it.  That could be done. And there are other parts of that that can be done also. But all I'm saying is that everything that we're talking about is doable. Everything that I've said in relationship to this fund is doable. And can be done. You know, the financial models are known. You know, I'm not talking about pining the sky. This is stuff that has been around for hundreds of years financially. So anyway, I'm really fairly confident that I wouldn't like us when we before we sign off in terms of our report that we at least attempt to identify additional sources of funding. And to your point, Jennifer, I look to and I expect other members of HR a to be coming forward with specific ideas or specific proposals. We've already identified a couple of them brilliantly here today with respect to the Coleman family the driver family. I think there's also a solar black ownership idea. I think definitely we ought to have. I'm projecting right now in my head at least 10 kind of specific sort of, you know, ideas, and I just say that off the top of my head because of numerous other things that I've heard from, you know, from our various listening groups that that are that are completely in the scope. So I think there are some of these specific ones, but then we want to keep the door open in terms of for the successor group to be able to initiate or, you know, receive other ideas down down the line. Okay, so I just, it's 557 and we are not going to get to the other two items that we need to discuss today. I'm going to make some suggestions for that but quickly, I just want to share that what we have with the town right now is a handshake. And to turn that handshake into something that is more reliable, we need a policy. And so what I'm suggesting that we do is that we draft a policy. I can work with different people that can be helpful in that, and that we recommend this policy in our report be adopted by the council. If there is a policy just like any other the housing policy the financial policy. We've turned it from a handshake into something that the town clearly no matter which council is there no matter which people are there will be able to follow very clearly. So I would like to suggest that as part of our recommendations I would also like to suggest thinking about another way to approach the CPA piece of things is to recommend that we do some sort of percentage that the CPA must allocate toward whether it be black led initiatives or BIPOC led initiatives. The CPA is something that its criteria come from the state. It might be where a recommendation actually has to go through a special legislation process that then says in Amherst X percentage of CPA dollars need to be allocated specifically on an annual basis to projects that are that come in from black residents. Okay, so those are those are the two pieces that like on the like kind of legislative side of things I can I'll take on those pieces and trying to get some draft language together that we can include in into, I would, I think that having a policy before we are finished in terms of that two million is really important. So that question then and I'm going to go Dr. Rhodes I see your hand is up I'm wondering if this time next Sunday to do this all over again, but with a different set of topics. I do see Ms. Bridges left I think she did and miss Pamela and I have the basketball tournament slash youth here awards next Sunday. Thank you for that reminder what time is that Jennifer from like 10 to five 10 to five. Okay. How do, because I think that this is I think we need one more of these. Or, you know, we tomorrow and who I think Yvonne is not able to join us tomorrow. I can't tomorrow either. You can. Before leaving the Sunday idea. Could I provide the zoom link and the recording and then send the recording on to the town to be archived as it have to be from the town's zoom, zoom account. I mean if a balance of us can meet without our liaisons, I think we should still try to meet. And someone could open someone else could open for us at request, I believe, and then that that person would just hand over host to me and we would make sure it got recorded. So, but we may want to be at that event, at least I was going to say that seems like a good opportunity for the HR eight members to interact with some of the Amherst residents that might be there. What event of this is this. This is the Jennifer will you talk about it. We have, it's the old versus young basketball group, and the human rights youth hero awards and race amity day is all in one event. On Sunday. And so I just because a lot of the folks from old versus young are black American black Amherst residents I would think that it would be important or were former black Amherst residents. I think it would be important for you guys to someone from the HR to represent there. What what if we meet. What if we, we try to get somebody who can open for us but we meet from five to seven on Sunday, next week. I'm sure that we can just open for you that's fine. I think we can go to some of that in the earlier period. Think I know somebody who's cooking for that. And they make, and they do good grilling so I should at least go and get a little taste of the food. It's impossible Jennifer if you could forward all that location data and tie back to me I'd appreciate it. I think it's at Mill River right on Sunday from 10 to five. Okay, so who can, if can, can. Hello, can you meet next Sunday from five to seven. Yes. Okay, what about you Dr Rhodes. Are you willing to write a letter to my wife, explaining why I'm not going to be present for certain things. I will answer in the affirmative. If you're not able to write such a letter, I am able and willing. Yes, please, because I think if we so Dr Shabazz and even is that a time that would work for you next Sunday. I need a note to get you a note. Definitely. I think that if my husband's like this, waiting outside the door right now right now. I have to go to I my capacity is definitely have been reached. I think that we will cancel tomorrow's meeting. Okay, so I will take that time to hopefully meet with Mattia to go over what we've. She's been here the entire meeting with us. So, and, and, and then we'll meet next Sunday from five to seven and I think if we have that meeting, we can get everything. All most of what we need for this report completed. So we covered a lot of good ground today. I think it's really good. I think so too. I think the report will reflect really reflect what we believe, you know, a really great starting point for the next, the next iteration, I do. Yeah, yeah. You know, and one final thing with respect to that solar piece and in general, and I hope to kind of provoke maybe for next meeting is this whole idea of land, you know, and the some town owned land, being dedicated to, to black Amherst in some form of fashion, some of it could be in a solar array some of it could be in terms of hollowed ground, sacred ground, but that anyway, thank y'all. This has been a good one. It was really wonderful. Yeah. All right, so I'm going to admit there aren't any other comments or questions we did not need a public comment period today I am going to go ahead and adjourn the meeting at 6.05pm. Hi everyone have a wonderful week and thanks to Mattia as well in the audience. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.