Can you both share a little bit about what what forgiveness doesn't look like? You know, one of the things that people can do very easily is to hold a grudge You know when somebody is forgiving somebody else it means to release a death The the concept of forgiveness is is to release a debt that is owed to you rightfully owed to you That's why Jesus would say for us in the prayer more prayer Forgive us our debts as we forgive or also forgive our debtors Because the debtor owes me something and so I owe God something as a sinner You know, I have broken his commandments and and I am basically in debt to him And so I'm asking God for give me my debts, you know, forgive me wipe away the slate of obligations You know, he does that by his grace But if I've received his grace then I am supposed to extend his grace to somebody else And so forgiveness is it going to affect at least two people it'll affect me the one who is forgiving and To the one who's being forgiven So it always affects at least the two people What I'm supposed to do is stand ready to release the debt I'm to be in that attitude of quick forgiveness or willingness at least to do that So when I do forgive, I'm release of my own pressures. I don't carry that any longer I'm not bearing that burden anymore of unforgiveness. And so What it looks like is freedom. It looks like peace and and joy and re-established relationships things like that, that's what forgiveness looks like and And for me, it's the sense of being released from the pressure because you know it is when you're upset at somebody and and there hasn't been any kind of confession or any kind of restitution or or Just asking for or giving a free Forgiveness, there's just that tension between you and that person the unspoken tension sometimes that It may not be openly stated, but it's most certainly experience, you know, there's that that sense of dread to see that person or That withdrawing of yourself because you don't trust them because when somebody's hurt you you don't trust them so you're no longer extending the grace and the kindness or You know the relational things that at one time have been part of that That the unity of hearts and so forgiveness is a very important aspect in Christianity because We know of all people God needs to forgive us. We need God's forgiveness. I should say And to when we receive that Then that which I've received I can give them to you. I can give to someone else which is Simply what I've received myself. So I give what I've gotten and in marriage and in friendships and relationships I Feel that that is especially in marriage a very important aspect of it because we hurt each other Whether it's in the word or whether it's in action or an attitude We can hurt each other. We can injure each other And so if I say to my wife, I am truly I'm sorry. I didn't intend to do it and Acknowledge that I did that and said a dance and around and trying to blame set and Trying to give all the reasons why I did that to justify it If I take ownership of it and I say You know what we used to say when I was growing up in the Latin was mea culpa mea culpa mea maxima culpa My fault my fault my most grievous fault. It's it's a sense of personal accountability and Responsibility and when a man or a woman in a relationship, especially Don't say baby. I'm sorry.  I didn't intend to I wasn't the bad person No, I hurt you I take responsibility for hurting you and I'm sorry I'm sorry for doing that. I really am and it's been said in marriage I was wrong. I'm sorry is probably amongst the hardest words to form especially because of our pride and our reluctance to Admit that that we can harm others and so in marriage. I have discovered that to be be willing to to love my girl enough to Just say I have hurt you and I am sorry and to truly repent It's been very important You know one of the things that you mentioned and I think it's so harsh sometimes for people to let go is when they've been hurt or They've Forgiveness needs to take place in the marriage or any relationship When that person is the other person's asking for forgiveness There can be a tendency for the other person not to forgive They let that tension fester and they let it grow and it becomes bitterness and then And then it just becomes this ugly looking thing in the marriage, you know, and and so how do you guard against that? That's why we need to immediately talk one another that we forgive them and Because if you if you hold on to something It will fester and that's all you're going to be thinking about We have to let go some of those things that we've been hurt by and that's given it to the Lord and if God forgave Us, you know a sinner like why why we are to forgive those who've heard against that's that's part of the Christian life is is is to pour out forgiveness on others and Because we are wretched, you know, we're wretched people Yet God loved us so much that he died for us and we too need to die for one another and and say hey, I'm sorry Hey, I heard you That's that's the Christian that's that's what defines Christianity is the love for one another in spite of our in spite of our self We can we can we have that love and we can extend it to others and that's what we should be doing You know, that's important As you both mentioned the quickness to forgive it. It's a Lord's always quick to forgive Our sin our wrongdoings and and for the and for the in the relationship that quickness I think you both have mentioned is so important in forgiving So let me ask you both. So why is it so hard to forgive? I Think it's our flesh Is it because the flesh just wants to hang on to I mean I think about that it Even in times in my wife's I'm sure because you guys know I'm perfect right in my and so if any forgiveness has to take place My wife is always asking me and so because you guys know that's why she's such a saint But even in within our marriage, you know, my wife for whatever reason My wife may ask may say will you please forgive me and at first, you know, I want to I want to put my heels in and You know, and sometimes it's a difficult thing and And I've learned that I need to die to that, you know, because just as quick as Christ has forgiven me I also must forgive. You know part of the problem is John is that we like to you like to cause other people pain because they Cause us pain and so we want to see them hurt a little bit because they hurt us And sometimes we're not satisfied because we don't think that they've hurt enough because our self-righteousness and self-importance Our narcissism sometimes gets the best of us. So we become God, you know You've sinned against me and therefore I will not release this until you pay for it with your pound of flesh or whatever You know, and so I Think that has a lot to do with it when and I'm hurt or injured by somebody I'm not always quick to say That's okay, you know, but I Think part of that is because I'm not sure whether they really are actually apologizing Which they if they are actually telling me that they truly are Sorry, and I think something like that can To motivate me well, and I'm his being his wife and if somebody's hurt him well, I can hold a grudge because of the fact that He's been hurt and and I have I too I have I you know, I have to go before the Lord I've had to go before the Lord many times and say Lord forgive me. This is a child of God We're dealing with and and yet You do want to hold sometimes you feel that you you should just hold on to the Because after all that person may deserve it and and not and that's wrong That's that's wrong. Like I said, the Lord forgave me And I must Which is very difficult at times, you know We also often hear the phrase what you need to forgive and forget and that comes up. I hear that a lot What's your guys's take on that because I think really the only one that truly can forgive and forget is the Lord because he tells Us in scripture that he casts it from the east to the west, right? What he doesn't bring it up, you know, I don't know that God has the capacity to forget anything That God prioritizes in terms of retrieval prioritizes things that have Occurred by placing them under the blood of Christ, which means that they're hidden in In the sense of being covered so he doesn't bring them up He doesn't retrieve them and use them against us because because they're completely released the debt has been completely released So, you know on one occasion Jesus's disciples approached him Peter said Lord, how often should I forgive my brother who sins against me until Seven times, you know, apparently the rabbis had been teaching that God forgives seven times to get that out of the Psalms Six times God forgives a seven and so with the with the seventh after that they have the Freedom to not forgive, you know, so up to seven times and I say into you and seven times 70 You know, which is another way of saying completely If your brother comes to you and says, I'm sorry and ask forgiveness You're to forgive them. I think that part of our problem is and it's very practical And I can I can hear some of the viewers who may be listening right now We're right away Saying now wait a minute. How about because there are those there are Reservations when you make a blanket statement like that And I and I understand that but the the biblical idea of forgiveness again is to release now If somebody has no evidence of genuine repentance, you know, somebody who's just saying I'm sorry And we've all seen that because we train our children to apologize But they don't always understand what they're apologizing for and they don't even see the reason why they should apologize If one of my bigger children hits the littler one and I say that you shouldn't be hitting the little one Well, to a bigger child, it only makes sense to hit the littler one. Why would I go hit a bigger one? You know, right? So that makes sense. Why should I feel sorry? For dominating for using my size to my advantage. That's human nature, right? So We have to teach them that there are reasons to forgive there are reasons to apologize and those are all part of what we have to train people in because That's something you have to learn to do and so when somebody is injured The first thing we do is we hold our injury and we we almost protected it In some cases it can become something that we use to our advantage And I've seen that many times when people will say in a situation where they have they've sinned or aired against somebody and And I will say, you know, we need to release that it needs to be but you don't understand when I was a child This happened to me and my entire life has been formulated around the defensiveness Concerning this particular behavior because I suffered in this way So it's a lot deeper for people than to simply say, oh, I'm sorry, you know, and we'll just move on and and all and so that's what makes forgiving difficult because Because the releasing is not as easy. That's why when that's why Peter said increase our faith You know, that's why because it's not as easy as you say But if you don't the parable of the debt collector comes to mind You know where a man owed another man some of money the man forgave him Then somebody else came and over to a lesser some and But the man said I'm not going to forgive you and threw him into the debtor's prison and all Jesus spoke concerning that that he was that this man who refused to forgive even though he had been forgiven Was placed into the debtor's prison where he's going to remain until every penny is paid in other words He is a debt collector and he's gonna he's gonna remain under the under the painful burden Not knowing what freedom is and what release really is because he didn't understand how how that one who gave he had owed a an unrepayable debt He didn't understand the depth of his own debt because he was caught up with his own value and a real failure of Understanding what he had or then this man had owed God that someone and God is saying you didn't genuinely partake in forgiveness You didn't understand it because to truly understand forgiveness is to learn to to give it to other people Forgive us as we have you know been forgiven. Maybe we forgive others, you know, and that's I think is a big as a big part of it John is Numbers of people don't know what forgiveness is. They haven't experienced it themselves And pray in a sense for them You know in a good way, you know, not put not by pray that you're getting an accident nothing like that In sincerity, you know for them, you know, you know what they need Lord You know where they're hurting and be with them and bring Give them courage bring them, you know bring them to church to come to know you because Oftentimes it's the world that Can really hurt us and and they do need healing and they need to see what kindness is all about and They need to be brought to the Lord That's One of the ways I was taught this and I think it's this truth to it One of the ways to know if I have actually forgiven somebody is if I can pray for them If I can pray for God's best for them It's one of the ways I know when I've really released somebody from the dead Because if I can't pray for their blessing or their best Then I haven't released them Sometimes we we will pray. Yes, Lord.  He knew how to pray so that what Maria saying is hundred percent right on because You know, that's when I've known I've released something That's when I've known it is when I've been sincerely able to pray for their best sincerely, you know, you know One of the songs we used to sing in the early Calvary days is V kind one to another tender hearted Forgiving one another just as Christ for God's sake has forgiven you Do-do-do-do-do-do That's right Sing that, you know But being a kind one to another tender hearted Forgiving one another just as God for Christ's sake has forgiven you Paul said and so I went to see a professor of mine on one occasion I was really upset and I was bearing the burden of anger and forgiveness and my friend Dr. Moore My friend Dr. Moore who was one of my professors at Biowa had tremendous affection for Maria and I had tremendous affection for him She eventually met him But that's what he did he quoted to me that scripture because he because I said to him I've got a burden. I'm upset I can't release it and he said you need to release it for God's sake because God Crisis forgave you. I didn't receive it at that time John. I walked out saying well, that's his job That's what God does if we get sick. I was really that bitter because what we said earlier is true If you don't release you get bitter, you know, I was I was very bitter very bitter very angry But eventually what happened is that scripture came to life in my life It awakened in me, you know that That you need to release because when you do release you have freedom you really do you're no longer mad when you see them or Just remembering every time you see them.  I think that's where a lot of people make the mistakes It's a decision. It's a decision of the will where you say I will release this. I will not be in bondage to this. I Will let it go And if you have to do it every day ten times you do it every day Because you can get into the habit of forgiveness it can become a mindset Which in which in my case, I think that it pretty much has you know, again, I've been a Christian a long time and you get into disciplines and habits of the heart and And that has pretty much happened to me not not completely But very much so where if somebody has injured me I'm much quicker now to release it just to say You know the Lord it's in your hands Lord You know, but as for me, I don't want to I don't want to carry this I don't I don't want to dread seeing them all of us have been in that place John where somebody has injured you and you see him walk in the door and first thing you want to do is just walk away Yeah, you know find a place to hide maybe walk out the door Don't look at him. Don't say anything to him ignore them because you're afraid that if if you if you see him You're afraid that you may say something to them or do something And so that that's an ugly way to live That's an ugly way to live and and one of the things that both Marie and I have learned I can speak for us and this one is God doesn't let you get away with that He orchestrated so that person walks in the door when you're walking out You can try walking around in the church up off that door and that person will be over there That does happen and you laugh within yourself and you say it's the Lord He's not letting me get away with this and so I learned that in very practical ways. I've I've I've learned that He doesn't want me carrying a grudge. He doesn't want me Burying this burden because it hurts me too and he doesn't want that in my life, you know salt releasing it It's not easy Especially if it's a repeat offender if this person is constantly so there needs to be a sincerity in The apology that I need to stand ready to forgive and sometimes and as you know this and now I'll kind of just highlight this and then Let you ask some more questions, but sometimes the person who hurt you dies And you never hear from them.  You never heard the I'm sorry. You never heard it. How do you handle that? I believe that part of forgiveness is being ready to forgive and releasing even prior to that person Saying anything because sometimes they never do and if I wait my whole life waiting for somebody to approach me and say You know David, I hurt you and I'm sorry Then I may waste a lifetime waiting for something But if I if I stand ready and and I'm in an attitude of forgiveness and I've released the death though I haven't even heard the words I'm better off because in my heart I've already forgiven them and those words are going to just be something that come later on Or may never come at all. So it's an attitude. It's an attitude of forgiveness Not just the act, but it's the attitude of forgiveness where I'm gonna release this person of that death Even though they may never even ask wow You know kind of just what you're saying pastor On my death on my dad's death bed I had the opportunity to be next to him when he passed away and I I started getting this overwhelming feeling of guilt because here I see my dad dying and in moments before Well, actually a little before he went unconscious. I was able to ask him for forgiveness because what really really struck My heart was I may not have this opportunity again to ask and then guess what now for my rest of my life I'm gonna be living with this the guilt The the cell I mean just how it affects our self-worth and our esteem and you know, there were some things I really really needed to ask him for forgiveness for some horrible things that I've done to both my parents and I don't want to get too much into it because I don't want to get too emotional about it but I could understand what you're saying is that That opportunity to never be able to ask or to receive that forgiveness can be Something that just destroys the heart and and what it does to the person, you know to never have that closure or didn't ever have that That ability to say that and so I think again, it's not an emotion because emotions come and go right? It's we know that it's a it's an attitude of the heart and the Bible tells us to stand ready to forgive What does it look like for you both not in within your marriage, but in your pastoral care experience? when somebody has asked for forgiveness from the other person and I Forgive you, but yet when there's an argument, that's the first thing thrown in their face Would that be considered true forgiveness? No No, the Bible says in almost 13. I'm sorry first thing is 13 that love doesn't catalog Doesn't keep a record, you know and so I really In marriage or relationship You know the blood of Christ wipes away those things if it blots it out and so No, if I'm running around still carrying it in my heart. I haven't released it and If somebody has to bring something up to me later on well, you always They haven't either, you know, and so, you know, that's not true forgiveness. True forgiveness is the release It's the letting it go and I think that one of the worst things that you can do is to Keep reminding people of what they've done if they've sincerely said forgive me for what I did You know, we need to remember that in marriage two sinners got married you know, it wasn't one perfect person were two imperfect people and If I've heard other people before I met Marie, I'll probably hurt her too And if she's hurt others, she'll probably hurt me too. You and beings hurt each other and so You can't enter into a marital relationship expecting to be free from pain and differences and And we had our share in the early days of our marriage, you know I think that there's always a potential for us to to do something to one another or say something to one another That's hurtful to this day human beings being what we are we're capable of doing that But we've also I I would say in our relationship. We've learned to let it go a lot quicker, you know Yeah, I come from a Long line of grudge holders I My mama could remember things that were done to her when she was a little little little girl and she pretty much Imparted that kind of ability to me You know, so it was a lot of work for me to in the Lord to learn to release and to believe That people really are sorry when they say it and to accept it and not to bring it up and not to say it Took a lot for me to learn to say this is not something that will repeat will not talk of this again My kids can tell you that when they grew up I had learned that I had learned it by the time they were Old enough to willingly do things that they shouldn't have and I would say to them in this conversation This is the last time we'll talk about this and that's a fact we talked about it daddy I'm sorry and we reconcile whatever needs to be reconciled and we would move on And all my children can tell you that's how I handled them because I would tell them that we're not going to Bring this back up when my favorite quotes is from Ruth Val Graham where she said every cat knows that some things need to remain buried Where they are you know leave it alone and and move on Right, I like this too short John it may feel like it's a long life, but it's not our life is too short For us to be caring grudges and anger every day That's what I appreciate working with you pastor. I there's things I've done that You all check out this one this one this one I appreciate Because it can be difficult especially when you You know you've disappointed our pastor, you know in situations like that can happen and The fact that you just deal with it and then it's done and let's move forward and I appreciate that because that's taught me Doesn't need to be rehashed doesn't need to be revived and I think a lot of times in marriages that can happen That is the same thing. It's like okay. This we're forgiven. Let's move forward But there may be one or the other that they want to rehash it or they want to bring it back up And I think there's a matured a spiritual maturity when you're able to say let's just move on We got bigger battles to face together than to separate from one another, you know And I think that's important And so you've modeled that in my life that I'm able to take that back into my marriage and and in my other Relationships that if there is something that has happened Let's deal with it and move on, you know, and I think that's huge We think so well, that's it. It's like the Lord.  No a disagreement. God can't Fix if we allow him to transform our lives When and we need to just leave it forget, you know forget what happened It's that I think that's the hardest thing for most people is the forgetting and they do want to bring everything back They use it on each other, but that Isn't a good thing to do I see that a lot of times when people They use the term for give and forget There can be a the forgetting part can seem like oh, it's just an excuse that you've excused it or kind of accepted it We're then again Being in the flesh or thinking no, we want you to pay for what you've done if I forgive and forget I've given you a free pass Well, it's kind of forgiveness kind of works that way, right? We do get a free pass in a sense that we need to release that for the other person But allowing that pseudo forgiveness to take place in a marriage How dangerous or what are the dangers of allowing unforgiveness to linger in a marriage? Absolutely They may look elsewhere too I'm gonna find somebody Nobody who doesn't yeah, who doesn't treat me like this Respect me Jesus referred to that kind of attitude as hardness of the heart He said this was allowed because of the hardness of your hearts. They were unwilling to forgive. They weren't unwilling to Let it go and Jesus said it was a hardening You know because remember that argument that they posed to him concerning divorces, you know Lawful to divorce woman for just any cause Moses Commanded Moses permitted Permission because of the hardness of your heart Because you are human beings are capable of Rejecting the right road doing the right thing You know if it's true that the Holy Spirit is Produces the fruit of love And gives to us the ability to do all things that are necessary through the power of Christ Why can't I forget? Why can't I release it? You know That's a whole ministry of Christ, I mean You remember the story where those men brought the the friend to him and marked to and They lowered him and Jesus he's this paralyzed man on this mat and he says your sins are forgiving you, you know and Who is this they said that even forgives sin? That's what God does see that's the whole issue is who is this who forgives sin? And so is it true that the Bible? Says if I confess my sin He is faithful and just to forgive me my sin and to cleanse me from all and it's not true That he'll cleanse me from all my unrighteousness Then somebody says well. Yeah, that's what first John 1 9 says Okay, then if he forgives me of my sin, why won't you? Why won't you? You know who is this a forgive sin, you know and it's Jesus Christ That you may see that the power that the Son man has power on earth to forgive sins he turns to the man Which is easier to say get up and walk, you know Or your sins are forgiving you but you may see that I have that authority get up and walk which he Took the spiritual Which is forgiveness of sins and he made it practical with that miracle of walking because now that man is gonna walk in freedom Freedom from sin from the burden of sin And so we need to see that and so people can lie on a mat and they can stay crippled if they want Or they can get up and they can walk because they've been forgiven by the one who gives sin And that's in marital relations to I can keep Marie in bondage and cripple her Cripple her by reminding her of any disappointments and if I do that often enough she will not blossom She will not she will not produce fruit. I will dominate her Eventually she'll do one of two things either she'll wilt and ultimately die Or she's gonna just leave me because she can't survive under that kind of person any longer and so love bears all things And love doesn't catalog all sins and So the whole issue in forgiveness is going to come down especially in marriage Is related to the love that we have for one another. Do I love this girl? And with all my heart and if I do why would I harm her and why would I keep her prisoner? When jesus came to set her free, why would I do that? And that's how some people control right the woman will control the man You've always said that we've we've known too many You've never you've always been that way and you've never and and the guys honey. I do the best I can You know What else do you want from me? Well, you just have to prove to me that you really are Why who are you that I have to prove this to I already asked god for forgiveness I asked you to forgive me. I'm moving in a different way. Do you want me to keep a list of all the ways? I'm different now so that you can go over those lists and say oh, you're not you're not you're not and that's that's I've seen that We've seen that we've seen it like you're not like so-and-so. How come you're not like so-and-so? Why don't you treat me and I can't he treats his wife on We've seen a lot of that Blaming one another And controlling one another and very often the woman will say well, I don't get what I need here I'll go here and the husband is rooted and grounded. He's developing relationships He's drawing in his walk with god But she doesn't get what she wants at the church He's in so she goes to a new church and after a while she goes to a new church And she's just up roots and up roots and he goes back to his old old ways after a while because you know I have no friendships. No relationships, you know We've seen a lot of that John. Can you imagine, you know, how many years marie and I have been together in ministry And how many how many times we've seen those things? I can't I can't tell you how many I can't there've been so many Where they just won't let go. They just hold on it. They're angry and and they hurt each other with the words and and they don't release them and a long time ago The holy spirit reminded me that I married a girl he called his daughter This is my girl my daughter I've never forgotten that voice in my heart that was very real When he said this is my girl. Don't speak to her that way Yeah, that's a very really I've had a lot of them when I think about that god Sometimes it's been very gracious to make it very clear in ways that were tangible Where I I'd hear and then people say oh, he's crazy. I always I was crazy But no, it's true where I hear my own heart I'd hear those words and I still remember when you said that's my little girl. Don't talk to her that way I've never forgotten that and I looked at marie in a different way We were young. We were really young then and I looked at her and I go I hadn't thought of that This is god's daughter This is god's daughter I'm not supposed to talk to her like I was angry Raising my voices as some men can do and I did That's not how you speak to her so I get my my my cues from the bible god's word but There are very deep experiences that you can have over lifetime Where it solidifies the things that you've been reading and you say that puts teeth to that I see what that means now in a different way And so sometimes that still small voice we read about in scripture Is still a still small voice in our own heart there are times Not always not every day in every moment, but there are times Where his voice will ring into your heart, whether it's a scripture that's comes to mind Or a sense of a voice it says don't speak to her like that And I can give you biblical Verses that said this this is a daughter of god You know So it just is like god just Setting that in not everybody goes through that and I'm just trying to emphasize That what we do is we understand who we are And this is his daughter And I have no right to to not forgive her when he already has She went to him first and said god forgive me a sinner Who am I to say he forgives, but I don't And it works for us for us too Many women can treat their husband Badly through the words they They say to them and never build them up and and We need to build up our husbands They're the prime providers of the home we need to build them up and encourage them They need to see that we love them and that there's no other and We've been very blessed We have been very blessed I think so You have I have I have You know one of the things that uh When you guys are sharing about this There are people out there who have uh Who don't want to give for but they don't want to forgive because They want to hang on to that because sometimes it's the only thing they know Or the only thing that's comfortable for them. They don't understand that releasing something It's literally putting their trust in the lord And maybe even putting their trust in somebody else by forgiving And so sometimes I can see that they don't just want to give because it's Something they only know how to do is hanging on and it can be a controlling thing too as well But I like what you said pastor. It's releasing. It's an act of releasing Praise god. It's not based on emotions. You know because uh if it was based on emotion You know a lot of people won't be forgiven And Also, like what you both said Who do we think we are when we don't forgive when god is already forgiven us? Are we now taking the role of god? You know when we don't want to forgive people especially our spouse You know, that's that's so important You guys already touched on these last two questions How important is forgiveness in a marriage and how does one practice forgiveness in a marriage? I think you both already mentioned that it's the releasing and having an attitude to always be ready to forgive And that's something I can maybe just add to this. Is this something that's already prepared in your heart Lord, I know I may get burned or I may get hurt Is it something that's already planned and prayed for or is it something that you already have already Okay, if they for if they hurt me, I'm gonna forgive right away. How do you go about that process? I never thought he was gonna hurt me, you know For me, so I I think it's a natural thing when it I feel blessed to have my husband Who he is and he's been a good Father and a good husband and so I I'm I'm completely blessed by him and I've never Felt that he was gonna hurt me No, no never In our relationship, I believe that love That the love that we have for christ and one another has set a tone for all the other things that go on in that and so We again we and I you know, we um When we got married we um As we've been saying quite often lately came from different backgrounds, you know and We had to learn to adjust each other's ways and And we have and we did yes, but it took a while. It was it wasn't quick. It was over years because You get married. That's one thing You have a baby. That's the second thing Then you have another baby. That's then you have a house that you buy and then You know all the pressures and all the stresses and and all the changes, you know Um, Ray became a different woman with each child. I had a different wife Because she was a mother now to one now. She's a mother to two now. She's a mother three Well, she's a mother to four And and me I'm giving up my wife to each one of these kids And I'm adjusting to the fact that she doesn't want to be with me Because she has to be with him and her and and all of those things and then I'm I'm under the stress of having A job and she had to work and our bills and all of that all the pressures and both of us Had a a lot of pressures that that everybody has when they first get married. It wasn't unique to us It was just us and and we we were prepared by by the things of the lord by by trust in god and our faith in him and and a A meant a mindset that nothing will separate us because when we got married That that we we married with one attitude. We both had it. This marriage is going to last no matter what We we did not enter in our marriage thinking well, if it doesn't last or whatever I I we neither came it from neither of us came from the background that that for us that Not making it was uh An option and never was So when you when you enter in Kind of that old saying Of you arrived on a boat, but you burn the boat so you don't get on it and leave When you arrive on that as we did in marriage we burn the boats behind us There's no escape our vows are to god into one another before these people Which we married that way And there's we are going to make it. There's no way we're not And so and and and we're going to be happily married. We're not just going to be married and Kind of like put up with each other until we die You know, we're going to we're going to make it and we're going to have what god wants us to have Then you have that kind of attitude And then you encounter problems and and and and again, you know, everybody has different kinds of problems You know, whatever you bring into your marriage is what you brought in you may have a background of Something that you brought in that that it's a harmful memory It's a harmful thing that caused you to be a certain way. I respect and understand that But that man and that woman who decided together in christ that we're going to make it We're going to get married and and had some minister and had those Witnesses and signed that contract All of that means something All of it does and so yeah, you know, we we we got married and there'd be differences sometimes Sometimes they may be so petty that why are we so upset, you know, because that happens Especially when you're younger, you know, she made tacos one time and she made it with cinnamon accidentally I accidentally because it was red And she thought it was chili You know, and we have money to buy a Like a churro taco, right? And so I'm not happy about that. So what am I supposed to do pout and cry or do what I did? I got some water and wash this off Wash So those are little things aren't some major things, you know Somebody can hurt each other in a way in whatever way say something cruel or be unkind you know I just I just i'm a christian john. I I think the bible Is right and it's true and and i'm a sinner saved by grace forgiven by god and I believe that I you know, that's what I've been preaching for many years Why wouldn't I apply that to this woman that I'm married to why wouldn't I why would I not? Why would I not apply forgiveness? If neither I can honestly say this and I'll say it openly and people don't have to believe it.  We don't we have our ups and downs a little irritations, I guess But they're so small We don't even have to say how to forgive me. We don't It's not that we wouldn't is that we We've worked through so many stupid things That we just kind of accept each other and our and our weirdnesses that we have and me more than hers And the tensions that that I can go through and the line of profession I have and the burdens I carry You know when she's learned to bear them with me and to let me Deal with whatever it is. I'm having to deal with she's learned to do that So she doesn't expect a perfect man She expects a man to work things out according to the way the lord works and she trusts that he will and he does And so we don't we we we don't really argue and we don't really Irritate each other that much. We just don't and even if even if we do It's so it's so fleeting that who cares Especially as we're going older Because we are I am much more aware that every day I have Is a gift and I'm aware of that John, you know every day with this woman is one one more day And I am aware I'm not going to mess up my last days And I'm going to be a good husband and that's what I did as a kid I didn't understand that as an adult male an older man I do I do and that comps me that makes me a better man because I don't want I don't want Her not to have good memories of me. I just don't and that that motivates me and people don't understand that Not everybody does But it's true and we can tell you that's true. That's right I just do the best I can and we didn't bless beyond measure Well, you guys thank you so much for giving us practical insight and and the ways that forgiveness works in a marriage and And and you guys are truly always an example to many of us who are married And a lot of the things that we that marriages go through we we're so blessed as a church to have Our pastor and marita as a couple that we can model that That work hard every day to be like christ and so thank you guys for that And and for giving us practical application or forgiveness. Thank you guys for watching and god blessing. We'll see you soon


orry, Sabah Lenker Barty played in Stuttgart. Barty got the win.  And then two weeks later, they played in the Madrid final. It was a three setter and Sabah Lenker got her revenge. So I wonder if that's what Sabah Lenker was thinking today as well. Like that's, that's a reason why I picked her because I thought she was saying all the right things coming in. I want revenge. You know, also the fact that she's won this before. She knows how to win this. Fjantec hadn't won this before. The fact that she lost to Barty two years ago in the same tournament and then come back and beat her in that same event. All those things, those positive, positive, what do you call it? Positive thoughts. You know, all those things helping Sabah Lenker today. And she needed every bit of that. You know, she needed the court to be good.   She slapped herself in the leg. She gave herself a handprint tattoo. All those things had to happen for her to win. She got it. Blue clay's better. I'd love to see the blue clay make her come back, but I think it's not going to happen. Positive memories. That's it. Yeah. By the way, I've got to be honest. I have no idea what that thing is. What is the trophy? Can we not, before I rip it, Madrid Open 2333 trophy. Introducing, oh, they've even named it. The trophy's name. Oh, no, it's a, it's an artist's trophy. Introducing on the trophy designer. What was the reaction for the trophy last year? It was very well received. It looked like a surfboard. I think everybody, well, is there a different trophy every year on it like that? You're going to make a new sculpture every year. How do you create a process of, blah, people really like the trophy, but this year it's changing. Yeah. I want to know what his inspiration was behind the trophy. What's the main thing you receive to invoke when people see the trophy? I would like to people, to like the trophy, to understand it. I've started with an oval. Okay, so it's an oval of a tennis racket to construct the shape. A sphere of a tennis ball because it's the thing that records the point through a tool of the racket, through the tool of the racket. So it's like a ball and it's like a tennis ball and a tennis racket head and everything is constrained there, translating into a language I use in my sculpture. Okay. So the trophy is meant to be a tennis racket and ball and I guess it's on a different angle. When you see it on a different, I don't know. Maybe at certain angles it looks like a tennis ball hitting a racket or something. I don't know. But anyways, that's the inspiration behind it. Okay. Egas Friantec lifting a runner's up trophy. She doesn't do that very often. She's already done it twice this year though. She didn't win Dubai and Montecala and Madrid. She's had to lift the plate. The Frisbee doesn't lose too many finals. And look, I'll tell you what, Roger Federer is going to be happy. The on brand on stage. No Spanish for Friantec. She's like, thanks for such an intense tennis. You're right. Every match is a challenge against you. I hope we keep having a great season and have playing many more times. I want to thank my team for being there. Pretty good two and a half weeks coming back from injury. Of course, she pulled out of Miami. Someone said rankings. We'll talk about that in a second. All right. Friantec is dead. By the way, did somebody say like before that Friantec's dad being there is a jinx? Like when he's there, she loses. Is that there's somebody say that about Friantec or someone else? Thank you everybody. The crowd coming. Last time I was here was because of COVID. It was with COVID. It's not. It's not fun to play at 1 at 8 a.m. though. Throw and shade it. Feli Lopez is like, excuse me. I wonder if Friantec saying that playing the semifinal one in the morning didn't help her in this match. I mean, look, it's fair. She was through a little shade and Feli was like, Lopez like, excuse me. Because remember, she did play. She did finish at 1 o'clock in the morning against Kudamatova in the semifinals, which again, we all think is ridiculous, right? Nobody, you know, shouldn't be playing a semifinal one in the morning unless it's a five-sederate of Grand Slam. So, yeah, they got to fix the schedule. That was ridiculous. I don't think it made any difference today because she had two days off, but still, Feli Lopez was like, what do you mean one in the morning? Talking to me? All right. No, no, no.  No, no, no. It's good. It's actually a good thing that Friantec would mention because if the best players in the world don't like it, then things will change.  I've got to wait. I've got to wake up tomorrow. I can't watch this one in the morning on a weekday. So it's not good for the fans either. And I know it's a Spanish thing and all that, but, yeah. All right. So like I said, it's always tough to play you. I hope we keep playing many more times. You know what? They don't believe that. They look at each other and they're like, I hope we play many more times and you're like, no, you don't. No, you don't. Neither of them want to play each other. They're like, I hope you lose first round so I can avoid you next time because it's always so hard to beat you. Like, you know what I mean? Like there's no way they want to play again. I'm sure they, I'm sure they'd be pretty happy if they'd never played again. We are, yeah, I mean, we want them to play a million more times. This is one of the best matches in the WTA now or it was anyway, but I mean, it's good to see, it's good to see a, you know, a head-to-head that's competitive for the sake of the WTA. All right. She just says thanks to the, thanks to the coach and the player box, blah, blah. All right. She says thanks to the crowd as well. Very quick speech, short and sweet and she's going to lift this sculpture. All right. It's inspired by a tennis racket and a tennis ball. Look, I'm not an artist.  Whoa, Jesus. All right. There's the streamers. Sabra Lincoln was ready. She knew the cannons were going to go off. Awesome. There's so many streamers we can't even see her. She just disappeared in a blue miss, a blue, a blue streak of streamers. Anyways, geez, that's a clean up. Poor, poor, poor Feli Lopez, getting the broom.  That's going to be a clean. He ain't doing it. Going to get the models to do it.  The guys have to do it for this one and then probably the girls will have to get the brooms out tomorrow, I guess. Unless Feli picks up. Oh, come on. Just pick up at least a couple of streamers, Feli, on the way out. Chuck it in the bin. Anyways, Sfiantech and Sabra Lincoln, the rankings, still a long way apart. Right. A long way apart. Sabra Lincoln is on 7,880 points. Sfiantech 9,625. They both gained a lot of points this week. Sfiantech didn't play last year. Sabra Lincoln lost first round. So there is, they did get a lot of points, make up a lot of points together. But the thing is, Sabra Lincoln cut the lead down by 350. And remember, Sfiantech has zero points to gain until after the French. So she's got Rome next week. Actually, no, sorry, I'll take that back. Rome next week has been upgraded to a thousand. So next week, she can get a hundred extra points. But after that, she can't get any French opens. We're 2,000. She has the French open. So that means Sabra Lenka, if she, if, if Sfiantech wins Rome and Sabra Lenka makes it, well, Sabra Lenka's got to make the semis to do what she did last year. Going to the French open, if Sfiantech doesn't play well the French and Sabra Lenka wins, we could have a change. But it really comes down to whether or not Sabra Lincoln can win the French and maybe Rome, one or the other or both. And Sfiantech has to, like I said before, I don't think we're going to get a change at the top until maybe Wimbledon. You know, Sfiantech, is she going to lose the French open after this match?  She's going to win, right? Sabra Lenka on a Madrid court is going to, is way better than on a French open court. I would back Sfiantech every day on the French open against Sabra Lenka. But there is still a chance to close the gap until when we get to Wimbledon or even less than a thousand. That's when we could have a change on the grass because we know Sfiantech's grass score tennis is a little lacking and Sabra Lenka is a beast. By the way, the lay, I don't know, is this the 16 and under champion as well standing next to Sabra Lenka? That's nice. It's nice that they got the junior champ next to Sabra Lenka. That's good to see. That's good to see. You love that. Promote the kids. The juniors. The juniors. Goat. Goat. Greatest of all time. Goat. Steven. Thank you, Cam Williams. No worries. Steven Peters. Thank you for the 20. Appreciate that. Making a salute to the chat for Steven. Bloody hell, mate. Thank you for the 20. Sfiantech rubbish on grass. I wouldn't say rubbish on grass, but the transition between clay and grass is a lot shorter for her because she plays so well in the French that she doesn't have time to play. I'm sure this year Sfiantech will go and play, you know, a grass court event. By the way, all the ball models, God, they look silly. Don't they look silly?   It looks like a costume party. There's no one legitimate. I mean the arms are too big. Their arms are massive. There's no one Madrid.  You've got to be skinny, scrawny, little kid. You can't be a jacked bodybuilder.  Yeah, Felly is not doing it because, yeah, Felly, I mean, he's one. He probably was, he's like, wait, they've got to look like me.  They look silly. Come on now.   Come on. They're not standing there going, this is the peak of my modeling career. They're not doing that. They're doing this because it's a side gig for an extra couple of hundred bucks. Oh, it's, it's, I feel embarrassed for them. Can you imagine me wearing, like, I'm not as jacked as those guys, but it would be like me dressing up as a ball kid.  Running around in tennis court. Come on now. Did they get paid? I don't know. Maybe they get paid in, I don't know. It's a job. I mean, I don't know. I don't know how it works.  Yeah, they look like bodyguards with like the hats. It's the visors that look weird. The visors make them make them look like they're cosplaying as a 14 year old boy. It's like, what's that movie? 21 Jump Street.  And you're like, you're not a high school kid. And he's like, yes, I am. That's what they look like. All right.  We're back in an arena. I think that was always the big three of women. I would say Pagula. I still, I still think Pagula should be mentioned. I don't think Kragikov is quite there yet. Pagula's still consistent enough to be considered up there. Yeah. It's like, like stranger things. Yeah. It's like, hang on a second, Steve, you're not, you're not 17. They aren't fooling anyone. Exactly. Exactly. Okay. Protein bars. Yeah. That's what they feed. They pay them in protein. They're bald bodybuilders. Oh, man. No worries, Deb. Thanks for joining us. We're sticking around for a little bit longer and then we'll get out of here. But, um, hell, what a match.  What a final. What a final. I can take some. I want to, I want to check something. Let me just check something. I think we've, uh, Oh, chat. Chat, chat, chat. Guess what? It's official. This match, today's match, the final of Madrid is officially, wait for it, the biggest match of the year on the WTA. Can we get some solutions in the chat for that or fire if you don't have to the salute emoji? Can we get some fire in the chat for that? Thank you everybody for watching. Appreciate the largest match, bigger than the Australian Open Final. So thank you everybody for watching. Bigger than the Australian Open Final. Give yourselves a round of applause. I mean, thank you.  Hey, look, massive tournament. And a massive final, one V2 and the biggest stream of the year for the WTA. Thank you all for joining us.   Yeah, we had over 8,000 people watching at one point, insanity. So I appreciate all of that. That's, that's ridiculous. That's insane. And it was a final that deserved to be the big, what is seen as one of the biggest matches of the year because it was huge. It was one V2. It was a rematch of what we saw last week. We got a, you know, an instant, an instant rematch. We don't usually get those. We definitely don't get instant rematches between one and two on the WTA.  Thank you everybody for that. All right, we've got one more match to go. That is tomorrow between, between Elcores and Strouf. It's probably, look, I don't want to be pessimistic, but I'm not as, I'm not going to get his, I don't think we're going to get, unless the matches, you know, finals at tie break and we get ridiculous, you know, tennis from Strouf. It's going to be hard to top this one. I feel like this is the match of the tournament. Yeah. The WTA is very strong right now. It is so strong right now. One beats two. Well, we got, we got two, one beat two last week and then two beat one this week.  What a start to the clay court season. All right. It was tense. Yeah. My heart was banging. Yep. For sure.  You can't be serious. Linear, thank you so much for the super sticker. Thank you for that. Very generous. Thanks for the 22 Canadian super sticker. Thank you. That's very, very generous. Great for women's sport. It is. I mean, WTA tennis is on fire. And I gotta be honest, this year, because of, you know, no Nadal, not much Djokovic. Alkares has been good, you know, he's been there for the most part. But then again, he pulled out the inconsistencies. The fact that we haven't had a tournament this year on the, on the ATP with Nadal and Djokovic and Alkares in the same event this year. The Australian Open had the two goats, even Mevidev, like getting those four guys, right?  We haven't had those four guys in one event this year. They played, you know, separate events, or together, you know, three out of the four or whatever. But we haven't had the big, the big boys playing all at the same time. Sinner as well, chuck him in there, Sidney Pass, all those guys. On the WTA, we've had a full list for the most part. We didn't have Jabur this week, in the first six months. You know, we're talking about Rebecca, we're talking about Krajikova, we're talking these two ladies. And I think that's why the WTA has been, has been so much better is because we're getting the strongest lists and the strongest players playing the big events. We're not getting that on the ATP at the moment.   Because the WTA is just, and not only that, we're getting a full, a full list, but they're also winning. You know, the semi finals have been fire, the quarter finals, the finals have been epic. I mean, let me just go through the finals really quickly for the year on the WTA, the big finals, right? We're not going to go through the mini ones. So we're starting, starting in Adelaide. We had Sabalenka vs. Kova. Great to see a new face and Sabalenka started a run. Then we had Benchich beat Kazakina. That's a top 10 clash. Sabalenka took on Rebecca in the final of Australia. Then we went to Abu Dhabi. Benchich, Samsonova. Samsonova is on the brink of top 10. So is Benchich. And that was a match point saving match. Then we had Shafianatek Pagula, top three clash in Doha in Dubai. We had Krajika vs. Shafianatek, the upset. And of course, Krajika, you know, claiming that she should be in the big three. Then the Sunshine Double, Rabakina vs. Sabalenka, then Kovitova vs. Rabakina. Then over in Charleston, you know, even though Shafianatek Sabalenka didn't play, we had Jabir taking on Benchich over there. Last week we had this match and then this match again today. So it's just been so cool on the WTA to just continually get the best players in the world, the top 10, the top 15 playing each other in these massive finals. Because you can probably pick about maybe five to 10 people that have featured in two of those big finals at least, you know, which is great. It's great for the game and it gets us all to learn more and more about these players. You know, if you get different winners every week and it's random, you know, we don't have enough time to learn who someone is after one match. Hey, cool YouTuber. Just 1600 pts between one and two. WTA is entertaining. That's it. So it is. It is. Thank you for the donation. This is one of the big, this only big three in WTA is Montek, Sabalenka, Rabakina.  They're the big three winners of the year. I'm going to say, I'm not thinking of the big three because I think there's other players that are still going to, you know, we're still going to hold another half of a season after the Wimbledon for other players to lift. But those three players are the strongest players this year and they've been the most winning players this year. I mean, look at the WTA finals race. They're the two three, right? So they're the most, they're the, they're the best three this year. Margot. Thank you, Margot, for the 20. Appreciate that. It's very generous of you. Appreciate that. What about the veterans? Do you think they can still win any? Which veterans on the WTA?  She won Miami. So she's, she's not done yet. I doubt Rabakina will keep the level. I don't think we'll see Rabakina. Like, look, we've got to manage our expectations on certain players when the surface goes from hard to clay, right? So Shfiantec, we knew it was going to get better when she played on clay. She's made two finals. She's got a title. You know, she'll probably have the better clay court season than a hard court season so far after the French. But Rabakina will never get, we weren't going to see Rabakina, Indian Wells, Miami, then do the same on clay. I mean, she's not a clay courter. If she was ever going to do well on clay, it would have been in Madrid. She lost in the first match. So I think with Rabakina, yeah, she's not going to play well in, we shouldn't expect her to play well in Rome or the French. If she does, it's great. But I wouldn't be like going over. Rabakina's got to get to the final and blah, no, she doesn't, she might lose in the fourth round and that's the way it is. Sabaling has never made it past the third round of the French. So she's never really played well there either. But she's in a better spot now and she's got the win over Srivante on clay. I think we're all expecting Sabalenka to make it to a semi, right? At the French, if she doesn't make a semi, we're all going to go, that was bad. Depends on Rome, I guess, next week. She might lose first round and we all forget. You know, and then when we get to the grass, Rabakina might make a comeback. You know, that might be where she thrives again and we see her get into the finals and Sabalenka gets a chance to win Wimbledon and all that. So, and then we get to the hard start after the French, after Wimbledon, we're like, okay, let's start season 2.0, hard court season 2.0, you know. But I love it. I love it. I think tennis is in such a, like, I feel like it started last year with the Srivante streak. Barty retired, Srivante took over, Serena left, and yeah, a lot of people left when they left, but now it's like, this is like the start of, like, we're on the, we're just getting started with the women's tennis. The resurgence. I'm so excited. Because we've been watching tennis for like, I mean, if you've been part of the channel, we've been watching women's tennis for like, since, since 2019. And man, back in 2019 was rough. Even 2020 was rough. Like, you just didn't know who was going to win. Everybody could lose at any point. It was just like, it was hard to watch because you're like, man, who's going to win? Who's going to win? But now it's like, okay. And it's only going to get better. I feel it's, you know, this is just the start of this, this new, new version of WTA that everyone's getting on board with. We might see on Drava in the mix soon. Well, look, that's 16 year old. Let's just let her keep going and doing her thing and not put too much pressure on her. I wouldn't put her in the mix with these two. You think on Drava's going to be, she's a French open like, no, give her two years. If she hasn't done anything in two years, she's only 18 and then it's fine. Pushkiva, Svetlana Halop. Pushkiva's, look, Pushkiva's there. I mean, she took a set of Shriantik and Stuttgart.  Halop, when she comes back, that'll be different. I don't know if Svetlana is going to make a big comeback because she's a long way away from coming back to the, to playing these ladies. And when Svetlana left, she was in the top five, right? So when Svetlana left, the WTA was sort of in, in randomness, right?  So when she left, Svetlana is totally different to what it is now. Now it's like, you put Svetlana in this mix, it's going to be very tough for her to win. Unless she, even, even when she was at her best, I mean, yes, you want to, you know, it was a bronze medal and it's so different to 2023 now. You know, do you think Bedosa will get back in the mix? I think so. I think Bedosa showed, has shown over the last couple of weeks, you know, she's lost to, I think, Bedosa has only lost to the best, the best lately. A couple of Rebecca losses. She lost to, who's, Zachary this week. She lost to Sabalenka last week. I think Bedosa could get back in the mix. She just can't beat these ladies though. That seems to be the problem.  Like Kerber comes back. Who knows? Azarenka maybe in a grand slam.  We saw that in Australia, right? Jabur, I mean, look, Jabur's injury, I, I'm very, I'm very pessimistic about Jabur because we saw this back in 2021. Who was here in 2021 watching Women's Tennis in 21? Was anyone, was anyone here for that? Who was here for Women's Tennis in 21? Because Halop had the same, had the same injury. And she was out for months. She didn't play, she couldn't defend Wimbledon. She had to pull out of the French Open. And she didn't play until like the US Open. So she was out with a similar injury, a tear in her calf for like, like three months. So I'm a little bit, I don't think Jabur's going to come back I'm hope I'm wrong. And I'm not a doctor. So don't even listen to me. But I wouldn't be surprised if we don't see Jabur until maybe the Wimbledon. Depends on the severity of the, of the tear, but yeah. But it's a torn calf. I mean, you just got to not play. It's got to heal. And you can't get, you have to use your calves in tennis, right? You can, can skip Rome. If Shriantek skips Rome, I'll tell you what happens. She's still up a thousand points. No, sorry, she's still up 900 points. But then that puts a hell of a lot of pressure on her at the French. I think Shriantek plays Rome. By the way, Shriantek's got a week until she'll have to play a first match anyway, because Rome starts on Wednesday, second round, which is where she'll play is either on Thursday or Friday or Saturday. So Shriantek and Sabalenko won't play until maybe Friday night, Saturday. So they've got at least another like, you know, five, six days off. And I don't think Shriantek's going to leave. Do you reckon Shriantek's not going to play Rome as a two-time defending champion coming off a loss here? She doesn't want to go to the French open with a loss if she can avoid it. So I think she's playing. I'd be more, I mean, maybe Sabalenko. I mean, if she pulls out of Rome, then she's not going to get number one anytime soon. But, yeah, look, there's no reason for either of them to pull out. They're both physically fit. At least, at least that's what we know of, right? We think Shriantek would lose at the French. I don't know. I'm still back in Shriantek at the French. Today, it didn't change my mind. Rome is, if she doesn't play win Rome, it depends if she loses too, but Shriantek is still, she's still my French open pick. Sabalenko's huge dub, but it sure was an upset. Well, it was an upset, but by the way, I mean, she was paying low odds or high odds or whatever it's called. French open will be for Jabir. Jabir, it won't be healthy enough. I don't think Jabir's calf's going to let her win. Like I said, I don't think Jabir's playing the French, to be honest. I wouldn't be, even if she has played the French, I wouldn't, I don't think she's going to have enough practice. Alcors will skip Rome to Rack. If he wins Madrid, he plays Rome to get to number one. There's a number one ranking on the line. Why would he skip Rome if he's got number one in his sights? There's, there's no way Alcors skips Rome. He might play Rome and get to the quarterfiles and then withdraw after he confirms he's number one, but he's got a number one ranking to play for. I would be shocked if Alcors doesn't play Rome just for the number one. And remember last year he skipped Rome and look what happened. He lost at the French open. The French open is the best. So the Rome is the best. Rome is the best warm up for the French. Those who play well in Rome usually do well at the French. Those who don't, who do well in Madrid don't do as well because Madrid's not the French. Even if he wins Madrid, if he wins Madrid, he's five points behind Djokovic on the rankings with nothing to defend in Rome. Djokovic is the champion. So here's the here's the situation. Alcors wins tomorrow. He's five points behind Djokovic in the rankings. He goes to Rome. He doesn't even have to he doesn't have to win. He makes the second round. Djokovic loses the if Djokovic doesn't win the tournament, Alcors is number one. So he just has to appear to get those 10 points for a second round. I think it's 10 points for the second round. So if he gets, if he just arrives, he gets 10 points, which is enough to get to him over the line. It doesn't matter what Djokovic does win, lose anything. He'll be number one in the French. I think, I think that's the math. I think unless he has like hangover points from like two years ago, but I don't think that's how it works anymore. He dropped the points from Rome the year before. Yeah. He walks into the door and he gets 10 points because he's got he's got to buy in the first round. So, yeah, well, at least that's what I think the draws. He's got to buy in the first round. So, yeah, and look, then playing Barcelona, Madrid, Rome, is kind of the opposite of what he did last year, where he played Monte Carlo Barcelona, Madrid. So, I think by skipping Rome, he's kind of, he can make up for that by playing, sorry, skipping Monte Carlo, he can play Rome. And it will be the same amount, right? Where's Seb quarter? He's around. Who'll be playing next week? Djokovic is playing Rome. I think Djokovic has to play Rome. Even if he's not 100%, it's like Djokovic's coming into, into the French, having lost to Mussetti and Liovic. I think, and I think he's got to play. If Djokovic doesn't play Rome, then maybe Alcaraz, maybe Alcaraz misses Rome as well. Because if Djokovic doesn't play, he drops a thousand points. If Alcaraz doesn't play, he drops zero. And that'll be enough. But Alcaraz kind of, I mean, Djokovic has to play just to defend his ranking, I think. Why am I unable to send $10? What is the minimum? I know, you should be able to, but you don't have to, don't worry. If Djokovic doesn't work, it probably means it's a sign. But just write your question. I can read it. The chat's kind of getting a bit easy to read now. Congratulations to Irina. Man, what a win. What a win. You only skipped Rome last year because he rolled his ankle in Madrid anyways. Oh, there you go. I think you saw for the added extra info. So technically, Alcaraz will be number one if he wins tomorrow and plays Rome. Yeah. If he wins tomorrow and plays Rome and decides to go to Rome and get on the court. I think, again, don't, this is all just in the live rankings in like, you know, my brain, I'm not the smartest person in the world, so my math skills are not great. But if he wins tomorrow, according to the live rankings, he's five points behind Djokovic, and if he goes to Madrid, he'll get to the second round by, if he goes to Rome, sorry, he'll get a buy in the first round, so he'll get second round points, which are round of, round of 96, you get 10 points. Well, actually round of 20, so first round buy gets 45, 35 points. So there you go, which is still enough. So even if he lost in the first round, he'd get those points because it's a 96 player draw, so you know, 32 seeds, top 32 get a buy, blah, blah, blah. So yeah, there's players with buy in the first round, get first round points. So if you get to buy in the first round, you get 10 points as a second round. If you win your first round, you get 10 points plus you play for 25 in the second. A little confusing, but either way, he gets 10 points for the second round, which is enough according to math. And Djokovic loses a thousand points. Remember that, he has zero points to make up. So Alcra is guaranteed, if he wins tomorrow, he's got to win tomorrow, win tomorrow, he's got to go to Rome, walk out on court, and then walk off court, and he's number one in the world. No matter what happens, he's going to be able. Can you write? Okay, good. Well, I mean, again, I always say these things, and then we just got to wait. Love the commentary from India. Thank you, appreciate that. What do I think of Goff right now? I think she's reaching a ceiling. I think she's hit a ceiling. And that forehand has got to get better. Rome drawer is on Monday. He doesn't even need to walk off the court. He could withdraw. I think if you withdraw, you lose your ranking points. I think with drawing, you don't get the points. There might be a rule for that. Again, I don't know. Maybe it's not, but I would. I don't think withdrawing would. I feel like if you withdraw, then you get replaced and you wouldn't get points. Right? Does but I also have a chance to win the RG. Oh, yeah. I mean, outside chance. Yeah. What will Rafa's ranking in Paris be? When he can meet Alcraz and I think he might be. 13 or 14 and he could meet them in the fourth round. So fourth round at the earliest, which would be a nightmare. No, he's low key. Thank you for joining us. Thank you, Shannon. Appreciate it, mate. Stick around for a little longer. It's six in the morning. I don't know where else to be. Yeah. Rome is much slower. So that's why I'm saying like, you know, and I said, I think I said the other day if Sabah like it doesn't beach, you're on clay because this court, everything, everything gave Sabah like the best chance today. The courts were faster. The, you know, being high altitude made it harder for Shafion tech as well. Not physical, not so much physically, but more so because of the speed. So this court was the best chance Sabah like it had and she won, which is good because it means mentally now she has a win over Sabah Shafion on clay. But I think when we get to Rome, it's going to be a lot slower. And I don't think Sabah like a beach Fion tech in Rome. Let me just show you a graphic real quick. So check this out. When I'm talking about court speed, here it is. So you can see there. Now this is from 2020. So it's a little outdated. I haven't got new information because they don't give it out. But this is back from the last time it was given to the public. You can see there in the middle, the orange, you see Madrid's 27 on the court speed index. You can see that just, it's actually a little bit slower than Indian Wells, but not by much. Then you got Rome at 22 and French open at 21. So it's a lot slower, really slow when we get to the French and Rome. So Rome is the best, from three years ago, two years ago, is still the best, and I think it's still the best warm up for the French open speed wise. Monte Carlo strangely fast, but I think that's changed over time. I think that's a little slower now, but yeah. So you can see there. Rome is the most like the French open in terms of court speed. And when the court is slower, it's better for Fjantec, right? Usually. No wonder many hates Indian Wells. Yeah. That's why probably why he won Madrid, right? Because he got the three points he won. Madrid is faster than, sorry, Monte Carlo is faster than Madrid. Yeah, again, that was from like, that was from back in like 2019, 2020. So some of those might have, some of those might be a little bit different now. I think Monte Carlo's got a bit slower than Madrid. Madrid's turned, probably the fastest now, but yeah, Fjantec's won Rome in the French open, and yeah, exactly. I always fast than Wimbledon, don't like that. Again, you know, take that list with a grain of salt, because I think, well, the Australian Open's definitely one of the fastest on tour. US Open's a lot faster now, so that court speed index doesn't factor that in. It's a different surface now at the US Open. It's, well, different speed now. But Wimbledon isn't as fast as it should be. I mean, a grass court should be your fastest court, but it's not. They've slowed them down over time, so, I guess just so we don't have tie breaks and big servers, you know, winning everything. So, yeah. Alcra's likes medium slow, I think. Yeah, yeah. US Open's like a bullet. Yeah, they've they've quickened that up. US Open, Australian Open are very much, much more, much more in common now than they used to. All right. We'll get out of here in a second, guys, because I am stuffed. I am stuffed, but what a day.  What a final. We got the epic final. Sometimes they don't end up the way they, we want them, but we got it today. We got our final today. Didn't we chat? We got our, our money's worth. Not that we, well, I paid for WTTV, but not that we had to pay much. All right. I'll see you guys tomorrow for the men's final. Stay tuned, because the men's final preview is coming out very shortly. In fact, we'll probably be coming out after this video. Spoiler alert. Thank you for joining us. Don't forget to subscribe if you haven't already. Sabalenka, a late birthday present, gets revenge on Shveontech.  Do we get the trilogy in Rome? Do we get the trilogy at the French? It would have to be the final if they do play again, but the two beats the number one this week. After one beat two last week, Sabalenka 6-3-3-6-6-3 beats Shveontech for the first time on clay and just makes things look a lot different going into the Rome next week. Men's final tomorrow, Alcrest Strouff. I'll see you guys then. But man, Sabalenka, what a win.


I'm Sushe Fontinaufer, I'm technical director at Leo Learning and today I'm presenting together with my colleague Mark Abadou. In all fairness, most credits of the preparation of this presentation goes entirely to Mark. Today we're going to be talking about Moodle and the XAPI and primarily in terms of the journey of XAPI and where we are today. So we're going to start off by talking about what is XAPI, then we're going to take you through the XAPI history, focusing on standards, industry and Moodle itself and then where next for XAPI and Moodle. So this is an introduction to XAPI, I'm not sure of everyone, should we do a quick show of hands, see who does know what XAPI is and it's a bit hard to see, about half or so, 40%. So this is kind of a simplistic overview I guess, but it was a specification that was kind of commissioned by ADL, which is the organization behind SCORM, the standards body behind SCORM, to think about what's the next generation of kind of learning technology and standards that are needed to support that. It's not the next generation of SCORM itself but it came out of that kind of project to assess that and it's really about this kind of realization that well learning happens everywhere and in all sorts of different systems in real life and not just in a piece of e-learning and how can you gather information about that and communicate it back to a central place and their terminology for that central place is the learning record store and XAPI is really the kind of mechanism, the transport mechanism really for getting details about those learner experiences into the learning record store in this statement format of active verb object, so mark completed piece of e-learning and it's that simple. So that kind of gets it down to its fundamentals really. So looking at the timeline of XAPI, we're going to start this journey in 2011 and take you through to today's date, taking you through the standards industry response to these standards and moodle. Okay so XAPI is a standard itself or I should probably call it a specification rather than a standard, some people might nitpick over that one but it came to it been in sort of development for a few years previous to this but really mid 2013 was when it reached 1.0 and really got widespread adoption and has progressed through multiple iterations since then which have been kind of refinements really. It should be viewed in the context of these other standards that are emerging as well so we've got the important one here I think in relation to XAPI is IMS caliper so there's two big standards bodies in e-learning, one is ADL which runs the SCORM and is now AICC standard came into them as well and then you've got IMS which lots of you're probably familiar with as well and IMS have started the caliper spec which has a lot of crossover with XAPI whereas XAPI is more about that kind of transport of data about learning experiences into the central learning record store and about the portability of that data into and out of different systems. Caliper is more of uses the similar act of object type mechanism but it's really a kind of an analytics framework for learning analytics about how do you describe those events. So there's a lot of crossover they borrow caliper borrows some of the XAPI specification in places and there's talk about whether those things might merge at some point and where those boundaries are between them and then we've got CMI5 as well which is important which is the next version of SCORM which again borrows from XAPI as well so it's good bits of SCORM, good bits of AICC and good bits of XAPI into a new standard called CMI5 so we've sort of put them all on the same map really because it's because of the overlaps and whether these things may come together at some point but currently we're on XAPI version 1.03 which was late last year. Moving to the industry the adapters that started to show implementation of XAPI was in August 2012 within our own group Rustacy provided support for XAPI in the SCORM engine also in August 2012 then in December of the same year there were over 40 registered LMS systems and authoring vendors using the SCORM standard then the first open source LRS so the learning record store which holds all the XAPI statements was released by learning locker in this sorry October 2013 so that was a year later in June or no sorry January of 2014 Watershed launched their LRS and Watershed is a company that came out of Rustacy followed by some major higher education adapters of XAPI through the YISC initiative around learner analytics and the system that YISC developed in collaboration with several universities and then in March 2017 the YISC learning analytics system had signed up over 40 oh no sorry 50 universities here in the UK. There's a bit of crossover I think between that that YISC platform and insight and inspire sorry it should be interesting to cover at some point in terms of where Moodle has sort of sits along these timelines of adoption it was 2013 four years ago in Dublin Moodle I think where I sort of came along to Moodle Moodle to say and try and kick start a bit of a conversation around XAPI and what what does it mean for Moodle world or it was called Tin Can API rather at the time which is kind of its working title and previous to that there's been some some noise in the tracker in Moodle tracker about it as well. So this has sort of been a conversation really that's been going on for for a number of years and in that intervening period there's been a number of plugins that have evolved so Andrew Downs is one of the first guys to kind of really crack on with this and built a launch plugin for content that had been packaged up by XAPI packages so some of the as Sasha mentioned some of the authoring tool vendors had started to offer XAPI versions of their content as well as scorn packages and the plugin Andrew wrote allowed you to launch those in Moodle and then the most significant one really is from Charity Learning Consortium CLC who built this logstore XAPI plugin for Moodle which is in the these are all in Moodle plugins database and and that takes it's kind of interacts with the Moodle events log and which are kind of in XAPI format anyway you know it's it's you know user X completed activity Y that's all there in the event logs and and that that XAPI plugin just converts that into the exact right sort of statement format that's needed to hook up to an external learning record store and shortly after that Blackboards then reused that and extended it towards Caliper as well I think their plugins supports both XAPI and Caliper so there's been some good work there and those are those are quite widely used plugins and then finally I can't quite read on that the Moodle tracker item so that's just worth noting there that log into the tracker now if you can and it needs 10 more votes and it will become the number one most requested feature in the Moodle in the Moodle tracker so there's there's some real support out in the community to get that into Moodle core. So where next for XAPI and Moodle? The XAPI and Moodle core would be nice XAPI and Caliper both supported by plugins to some extent need to move into Moodle core enable both inward and outward data i.e. the interoperability between Moodle and other systems to support data portability required by the XAPI statement. A note on standards development as well which I think is important to consider as if we're having that conversation about whether XAPI and Caliper come into Moodle core this whole issue of understanding well what are the boundaries between these two specifications and are they going to merge maybe at some point there was a lot of activity in the second half of last year between IMS and the ADL bodies and a bunch of other industry sort of interested parties to really explore where the overlap is between these two specifications and should they converge or should they remain separate and what are the differences and the values in each one so how do you select which you need and which you merge into core. I think from discussions with HQ there's some interest in having both of these in Moodle core which I guess is where LMSs will go. I've put a few bullets here on what are the broad differences but I think the main thing to remember is the Calipers the kind of the framework for defining events for learning analytics brought really for building learning analytics programs around it whereas XAPI is more about that communication layer so how do you get things in and out of the system and making sure that data is portable and earlier discussion around the learning analytics piece this morning was around users owning their data and XAPI kind of allows that because you should always be able to take your data out of the learning record store and take it with you and move it somewhere else if you wish to as a learner not just as a system builder and then CMI5 which I mentioned earlier being the next generation of SCORN which kind of overlaps with a lot of this stuff and again needs to be considered as to whether that becomes into Moodle as well. Learning analytics if Moodle is the analytics platform then use of XAPI to import learning experiences data from outside the LMS it becomes a question also it it grows in need to push XAPI data from Moodle into other learning analytics platforms GISC learning analytics platform is an example there's a few other ones out there we mentioned watershed earlier there's another one called Yeti. Okay we tried to think about where there's all this this kind of fit with there's a lot of talk within within our sector in workplace learning about learning ecosystems and people conducting their learning in lots of different systems lots of different places as I mentioned that which XAPI kind of supports that model and we tried to sort of represent that visually as to what's our view of a learning ecosystem in the corporate world and and where does kind of Moodle sit within that we've I know this is quite small to see we've done this up as a poster so it's outside this room in the in the poster area if you want to have a closer look but we try to represent that visually and and outline in blue the areas that Moodle does at the moment as as core and the the yellow blobs as as fits that can be extended using plugins and in the middle there you've got the learning record store you've got the event log hence that piece bleep being blue but that can be extended with the XAPI login plugin and so on to so those are there in yellow and these other sort of gray areas which are just other you know areas of learning that we have to work with with our customers but don't really sit within the Moodle kind of sphere and we very much see XAPI as the kind of enabler for kind of hook in all of these types of experiences together which is what we're trying to represent in that diagram so we will we shall hang around our poster in the next break I think and if anyone wants to come and have a closer look and have a chat please please feel free digitizing the HE content is from my personal experience with with higher education always quite a contingent's topic mainly because it quite quickly attends to generate whether it generally a lot of costs associated with generating the content but growth of digital content repositories is definitely a given given fact impact on course authoring analytics and recommendations is changing its landscapes and we feel that XAPI definitely has got quite a big role to play in that space in terms of universities adopting the SCORM standard and the XAPI standard that is slowly emerging as well you've got for example Leeds Metropolitan University who's dipping their toes into building more interactive type of learning materials using Moodle and using SCORM to deliver those experience to to their users to their students another university in Europe that is a big player using the SCORM standard is the medical university in grass and there is definitely space in terms of designing and creating more interactive learning experiences using XAPI or any of the other previously mentioned standards going forward so do we have any questions for Mark or Sasha yep anything I mean one one of the thoughts that I was having was you're talking about getting it into core the XAPI stuff a lot of people will be wanting to do learning analytics and wanted to use XAPI and is well developing their own thing now already as well just trying to put more pressure on the core to get that in in terms of the getting getting that data out of Moodle XAPI login plugin or the Blackboard plugin as well both good solutions just extract all that data quite easily using an industry standard that can that could work with you know the JISC system or or the Inspire or whatever any of these other commercial LRSs or the open source one that we mentioned you know there's a handful of commercial LRSs that have come onto the market so and they're all sort of pitching themselves as learning analytics products and XAPI is really the kind of the mechanism to get data out. Thank you. Oh we have one more. I was just gonna say we're one of the institutions that is working with with the JISC in terms of their learning analytics projects so we've been working with the XAPI plugin and stuff like that and I just wanted to reinforce that I think it is actually becoming a really sort of useful even plugin in the minute for doing exactly that sort of stuff and there's been some interest envelopes with them you know getting into batching that's for the data quality and the streaming stuff so it's certainly becoming a really sort of interesting and quite feasible tool for it so definitely it's worth looking at. Hey this is kind of a lazy question on my part but over the years I've read and heard quite a lot of sort of vague and theoretical stuff about XAPI that you can see why in principle it might be good but I was wondering if you could tell us a short but very specific example where someone has done something with XAPI to track some learning that really made a difference and couldn't have been done before. Is that? With emphasis on chart. I think that there's a good example with the water shares team which have to make a disclaimer because LTG are parent groups and investor in them but they've done some work they're American based and they've done some nice work with I can't remember the organisation name but it's they do training for first responders in the US for emergency situations and they they managed they used XAPI to to a track all their learning but also track sort of incident response times and and and whether the learning had an impact on not just response times but but in people who've had cardiac arrest I think it was in in their revival rates and I was sure that's the right term for it but and and they were able to approve just through merging all of this data together into a learning record store using that the XAPI is the standard to do so that there was possibly positive impact between the learning of the training of those first responders and the results that they were getting in the field. Thank you. Thank you.


Human beings are social species that require safe and secure social surroundings to survive and satisfying social relationships are essential for mental and physical well-being. Loneliness, a global human phenomenon, can lead to various psychiatric and physical disorders and left untended, it can have serious consequences for mental and physical health. Therefore, it is important to intervene at the right time to prevent loneliness and maintain physical and mental health. This article was authored by Rahi Mushtaq, Sheikh Shawr, Tabindar Shah and others.