Welcome to today's IEEA webinar, which is part of the Global Europe series supported by the Department of Foreign Affairs. The series is intended to contribute to a debate on the EU's role in the world and Ireland's role in the multilateral system, especially since we became members of the Security Council on the 1st of January of this year. We are very privileged to have as our keynote speaker today, Michelle Bachelet, the UN High Commissioner for Human Rights. The High Commissioner will speak for approximately 20 minutes, and this will be followed by a Q&A session. You can join the discussion by using the Q&A function on Zoom, which you should see on your screen, and we would encourage you to use that function during the presentation as questions arise. Please identify yourself when asking a question and the organization to which you are affiliated. Feel free also to join the discussion on Twitter using the handle at IEEA. It is a great honor for me to introduce the UN High Commissioner for Human Rights and indeed I don't think she needs much of an introduction to this audience. Michelle Bachelet has had a very distinguished career in her native Chile. She was a Minister for Health and later the first woman Minister for Defence in Latin America. She later attained the highest political office in her country when she was elected President of Chile on two separate occasions for the first time in 2006 and then later in 2014. In between those two terms, she was named as the first director of UN Women, an organization dedicated to promoting the rights of women and girls. Since her appointment in 2018 to the post of High Commissioner for Human Rights, she has been an outspoken and indeed a fearless critic of human rights violations around the world. Today, the High Commissioner will address us on the theme of protecting human rights with reference also and in particular to the Security Council. High Commissioner, you have the floor. Thank you very much Ambassador Mary Willand, colleagues and friends. I'm pleased to be part of this important discussion. The international community faces an alarming number of situations featuring acts that shock the global conscience. The narrative that countries publicly reaffirmed their commitment to human rights and take complete steps to effectively implement conflict prevention and response. Only a bolder or more determined approach by all multilateral institutions can meet today's severe protection challenges that of course has to include the Security Council. Although it is the primary responsibility of Human Rights Council promoting and protecting human rights is one of the best ways for the Security Council to achieve its mandate of maintaining international peace and security. COVID-19 continued trail of destruction threatens both development and peace and security, as it creates or amplifies grievances and tensions. And the Security Council has recognized the particularly devastating impact of the pandemic of countries affected by conflict and of course humanitarian crisis. My office has issued much material in various human rights dimensions of the crisis, including detailed COVID-19 guidance on civic space, detention, indigenous people, migrants, minorities, women, racial discrimination, LGBTI people, older people, people with disabilities, business and human rights, access to vaccines and a state of emergency. OTSR, OTSR's night to field presence worldwide have supported member states, civil society and national human rights institutions in implementing the guidance provided by the human rights system. The core message has been to be effective and response and recovery efforts must be grounded on human rights. The Secretary General's call to action reflects his deep conviction that human rights underpin everything that the UN does, and it is the responsibility of each and every UN actor. His transformative vision pursues real impact for people on the ground, drawing on the respective expertise of different field mission component. The call specifically identifies the importance of human rights analysis and information to the Security Council on current and potential human rights crisis. Currently in increasingly complex environments, the protection and promotion of all human rights behind the UN system together around the common approach to crisis from prevention to recovery and accountability. As a member of the UN Security Council, Ireland helps to shape the mandates under which UN peace operations serve. The country has shown its commitment to placing human rights and gender equality at the heart of all missions. Not only its own experience of conflict but also in long standing and proud record of continuous service in UN peace operations. I trust the country will remain a key ally of my office in the Council in areas ranging from accountability for violations for international humanitarian and human rights law to conflict related sexual violence, conflict space and human right defenders, and we're looking forward to continuing our cooperation. Their colleagues allow me to highlight three areas in which the Security Council plays a critical role in protecting human rights worldwide. First, when human rights violations amount to threats to international security and peace, it is the role of the Security Council to assume the leadership given by its mandate and act swiftly. The second area in which the Council has done so was by mandating peace operations to protect human rights. Integrated human rights components perform a central and unique role in efforts to monitor and report violations and abuses, advocate for remedies and strengthen institutions with forward looking activities. They are also critical to protecting civilians from violence by undertaking preventing and deterrence measures. My office is ready to provide the Security Council with the relevant human rights information that everybody needs to take timely and fully informed session towards its mandate to maintain international peace and security. Furthermore, we engage with Security Council members in order to integrate human rights to the UN peace and security agenda. We currently provide daily support to 11 UMP operations and special political missions including in strategic planning, policy and guidance development such as the human rights due diligence policy, as well as operations management and budgeting. With a strong backing of the Security Council, my office is engaging with regional partners to enhance international human rights and humanitarian law compliance by national, regional and international security forces. Our work also aims for the protection of civilians to be put at the heart for military efforts to combat terrorism. Because AHEL will support the G5 AHEL joint forces to operationalize a human right and international humanitarian law compliance framework. The objective is to help the force prevent, mitigate and address possible violations of international human rights law and international humanitarian law during its operations. As part of the UN-AU partnership on peace and security, my office is also supporting the African Union's efforts to ensure that all civilian, police and military personnel serving in AU peace support operations to uphold the highest standards of conduct, behavior, integrity and accountability in the implementation of their mandate. Our 2021 priorities in peace operations include supporting the deployment of the UN Integrated Transition Assistant Mission in Sudan, UNITAMS, and upholding human rights in Afghan peace talks. Another important effort will be promoting human rights as a driving force for Libya's political process and ceasefire implementation and ensuring continuity of UN human rights engagement in the Democratic Republic of Congo throughout the drawdown of the UN mission monoscope. Last year my office released a study on the contribution of human rights components to the implementation of mandates of United Nations field missions. Through concrete examples in several countries, the study demonstrates how the work of these components improves the effectiveness of UN field missions. Their efforts include the support of the National Police in Haiti and in the Democratic Republic of Congo to reform the security sector in Somalia and to reconciliation efforts in Iraq, Kosovo and Libya. The study also highlights how important the components are in addressing new challenges as field missions adapt to a changing world. Center to all this finding is how human rights have become integral to the strategic objectives of field missions, acting as a force enabler across the missions mandate. Another fundamental role of the Council is to promote and support justice and accountability for atrocity crimes and other serious violations of human rights. This is particularly the case in context marked by deep rooted impunity. These efforts can take various forms from the referral on a situation to the International Criminal Court, as the case with Darfur and Libya, to the creation of specific international tribunals, as for the former Yugoslavia and Rwanda to mandating UN peace operations to support national authorities in their fight against impunity. That can be done through the design and implementation of accountability and broader transitional justice mechanism, as well as reform measures to establish effective and accountable security and other institutions. The Security Council has also set up commissions of inquiries or requested the UN Secretary General to investigate allegations of gross human rights violation, for example, in the Central African Republic, Darfur and the DRC. The reports of such thorough investigations help lay the groundwork for further Security Council action and facilitate the fight against impunity. These investigations invariably find that structural impunity is a root cause and contributor to cycles of violence and severe human rights abuse. They emphasize how justice and accountability are critical to the resolution of conflict and necessity to be vigorously pursued in our collective best interest. Indeed, in creating investigative commissions and ad hoc international criminal tribunal, referring situations to the International Criminal Court and supporting domestic and hybrid justice mechanism. The Security Council has recognized the role of justice and accountability in addressing threats to international peace and security. Through these measures, the Security Council has strengthened international law itself, contributing to its understanding as the better for friendly, peaceful and respectful relations among states and between communities. It has also catalyzed the development of international criminal law into a cornerstone of our international legal system. In its resolutions, the Security Council has stressed the importance of accountability in preventing future conflicts, avoiding the recurrence of serious violations with international law and enabling sustainable peace, justice, truth, truth and reconciliation. And I'm quoting this quote from the Security Council. It has also specifically and rightfully emphasized that a comprehensive approach to transitional justice is a key component to sustained peace. These pronouncements of principle give me hope that disagreements within the Council regarding the question of accountability for serious crimes in specific country context, such as Syria and Myanmar and eventually be overcome. Just last year in February 2020, the Security Council held its first ever thematic debate on transitional justice. In my briefing to the Council at the occasion, I recognize the complexity of providing justice for victims and accountability for perpetrators of serious crimes under international law. We know that constructing a path towards sustainable peace and reconciliation through trust and understanding between former enemies, it is a difficult challenge. And transitional justice can also not be imposed from outside locally led and locally appropriate efforts have the best chances of success. Having said that the international community and the Council in particular must assist states in the comp in this complex processes. I mean, sharing experiences, mandating international support and encouraging the implementation of genuinely comprehensive approaches. So the Asian situation that can be for the Security Council are necessarily complex. There are no quick fixes discussions on how societies can embark on the long path towards justice are both legitimate and desirable. As long as they need for accountability and the urges of justice for victims are never questioned. Deferring views on processes should not lead to paralysis and inaction. It is crucial to give societies a chance to choose their own path. However, where domestic authorities fail on victims and survivors, and we're just before the most serious crimes under international law cannot be achieved locally. The international community must assume its responsibility. As many societies learn the hard way, a culture of impunity, where perpetrators are emboldened victim silenced and grievances nurtured, plus the seed of renewed instability and violence. And I say this from my own experience as a victim refugee, former head of state, and the UN High Commission of Human Rights. Dear friends, lastly, while they are indeed essential accountability actions are not a substitute for a fundamental principle. The best form of protection is prevention. This has been emphasized in the Secretary General's call to action for human rights as a system wide responsibility of the UN. The method for protection with being developed this year is of particular importance. It aims to articulate the common human rights ground UN vision and operational concept for prevention and protection. The two advantages between human rights development and peace have been reaffirmed in different UN resolutions, including the 2016 and 2020 resolutions of the General Assembly and Security Council on sustaining peace and Human Rights Council resolution 38 slash 18 and 45 slash 31 on his contribution to the prevention of human rights violations. It is crucial that human rights information analysis informed the work of a Security Council, the General Assembly and the Peace Building Commission in addressing current and potential crisis and conflict. This is also the case for the recommendation of the human rights mechanism. Human rights should be systematically integrated into existing mechanism for collective UN analysis and decision making. We need to decompose the competent bodies in a timely fashion. The state have a key role to play in ensuring a better flow of human rights information from the Geneva mechanism to New York. There are 71 countries that signed up to the Swiss initiated appeal of 13 June 2016 aim to put human rights at the heart of conflict prevention by ensuring better links between the Human Rights Council and the Security Council among other bodies. The Security Council is supposed to have the primary role on conflict prevention. The activities, however, often mean that it can be difficult for the council to discuss the situation of concern until they have reached such a point that prevention is virtually no longer possible. Information generated by the human rights mechanism at my office could be proven helpful. In that sense, it will be worth revising the 2016 initiative launched by New Zealand to create a safe informal space to discuss situations not on Council's agenda based on concrete factual, not on Council's agenda, based on concrete factual information and analysis on the secret area, which leads me to the importance of participation from civil society actors who bring direct knowledge of human rights and humanitarian challenges when addressing the Security Council. Resolution 2242 from 2015 has led to growing numbers of briefings from civil society representatives. This cooperation, however, has also led to reports of reprisals against briefings including threats and harassment, surveillance and physical attacks. My office has initiated the project to address this issue and we welcome the increasing pay attention paid by some council members. And from accountability to reconciliation to prevention, there are inspiring examples from our colleagues in field supporting new admissions. In the Central African Republic, the human rights component of Minusca, advice on the development of a draft transitional justice law, and provide documentation of human rights violations and possible breaches of international and international law by parties to the country. In the Democratic Republic of Congo, public reporting by the human rights component of Minusca, inform the mission's response to inter-ethnic tensions in Utility problems. It supported local reconciliation efforts by Congolese authorities and the investigation and prosecution of those responsible. As a new political process was launched in 2020 and the ceasefire began to take hold, the Security Council sees the opportunity to add the protection of women and children to unsmilled mandate. In Mali, the human rights component of Minusma and his partners continue trainings on human rights and the rule of law in efforts to combat terrorism. We conducted capacity building sessions for representatives of civil society, the fence and security forces, the Bar Association, the Supreme Court and the Constitutional Court. In South Sudan, the human rights components of Unmiss has developed a data driven tool that enables it to identify real time critical hotspots and incidents requiring further investigation. To assess the impact of forced patrols on the protection of civilians. Furthermore, human rights are also at the core of effective peace building and therefore an important benchmark to inform the transition and draw down of peace operations. My office is uniquely positioned to accompany these situations. UN policy allows for our mandate to both focus on the most serious violations linked to the root causes of conflict and stability and to continue providing support following the closure of a mission. Friends and colleagues, human rights gaps from discrimination to poverty, to lack of access to social protection and basic services, threatened social cohesion and a root causes of unrest and conflict. In that sense, the disproportionate impact of COVID-19 in already vulnerable populations extremely worrying. The pandemic has the real progress in achieving the sustainable development goals and is producing even greater levels of inequalities worldwide. Among all challenges, these conditions also create an enabling environment for terrorism to take root. Advancing the SDGs and recovering better from this crisis into a more equitable and sustainable world will be critical to rebuild social cohesion and ensure the benefits of peace and development reach everyone. That will require reaching the three pillars of the UN, peace and security, sustainable development and human rights. At a time of multi-dimensional global and regional crisis, we need redouble investment in rural space international structures that serve the common good by identifying and addressing grievances before they fester into violence. Unresolved human rights issues result in a fragile, ultimately untenable peace. They have also intensified the impact in the COVID-19 crisis leading us to where we are now. Sustainable recovery, one that leads to a more inclusive, just resilient and ultimately better society can only be achieved with two major elements by protecting human rights and through international cooperation. And that is exactly the same case for global peace. Thank you very much. Thank you. Thank you very much for that presentation. I think it's very thought provoking, especially what you had to say about COVID and its impact on the human rights and especially on attaining the sustainable development goals. And also your focus on impunity and the question of justice is indeed something it's very welcome to hear it now moving center stage, and especially in the human rights area. Can I ask you a question in which I know you have a lot of expertise and that is particularly on the resolution 1325 Women, Peace and Security. Ireland has always been a very strong supporter of this resolution. You yourself will have been very familiar with it from your time as director of UN Women. It's not, if you like, a controversial issue at the Security Council. But yet, we see that women are not central to the peace building efforts, for example in the Yemen and women's concerns are were not immediately obviously been protected in the conflict in Tigray province. How can we strengthen the implementation of security resolution 1325. What would you think more could be done we've had the statements how to have the action. I think this is a problem with many resolutions if I, if I'm honest, there is much. I mean the negotiation takes a long time but the implementation. On one hand, let me let me let me make certain recognition because Security Council resolution 1325 I think it turned 20 years last year. I think significant changes in the UN works for international peace and security, and has had certain impact on peacemaking and peace building. Our research shows that participation of women on the frontline is highly correlated with a chance that a social movement will use nonviolent methods, and that it will succeed, even in highly aggressive context. In a simple way is good to have more women on conflict prevention and of course conflict resolution and so on. Progress in fulfilling the resolution 1325 as you have just rightly mentioned, has been exaggerating flow if you have led to slow between 1992 and 2019, when there was the 4% that women constitute an average of 13% of negotiators. 6% of mediators and 6% of signatories in major peace processes worldwide I can mention to you a little anecdote when I was at UN women. And we started moving and analyzing and pushing or incentivizing members to include more women as in those processes. The answer that I received was there are no enough women that with that capacity. So I said, Okay, let's do two things. And of course that was not true. I had meeting with many women who were very expert on all this. So we decided to first of all to create a roster of women with those capacities so when countries will have to define or the Security Council we will say look there is this roster, this group of women. On the other hand, it was decided to work with the different regions to, if I would say on capacity building and mentoring more women that did the job maybe on a ground level but to have all the tools that that are necessary for for doing those those work. In May 2020 another data 555.4% of United Nations military personnel and 15.1% of police personnel were women. And it's a very low increase if we compare it to the numbers in 2015 that was three and so from three we came to 555.4 and then for 10 we came to 15.1. And on the other hand, when I was once in Liberia, and there was this, if there was a mission still there, and there was this group of a platoon of women Nigerian soldiers. I mean, then to say we were celebrating the International Women's Day in Nigeria and I mean the enthusiasm of women to see women. I mean, it gives them the sense of empowerment, but also in many of the missions what we heard when I was a woman has been women many of the women's will dare to come to them to tell that they have been a subject of gender based by but also to tell them even where some non-state actors were hidden or where the weapons were so on so to be honest I said that it's not about having women, only women, it's about the contribution the women can bring. Another important thing of course is that you need women everywhere because otherwise the models are not there the role models, and you look at the representation of women in national parliament. It has increased yes 13.1% in 2000 to almost 25% in 2020. And that sounds okay, but if you look at conflict affected countries, the presentation of women in parliament is still low, so low is 18.9%. I would say still total bilateral allocable eight committed to support gender equality efforts in fragile conflict affected areas has increased. However, bilateral aid to women's organization has expanded at 0.2% of total bilateral aid. So, I think, if you ask me is the resolution 13.25 still relevant I think it's more relevant than that. So we must redouble efforts to implement that what can we do about it. I think we need to, to be able to show in a better way to member state how important has been the contribution of women, how the outcomes have been positive, interesting and sustainable. So also it's not only about women in the peace forces is also about the role that we will play at the ground at the field they are really, they really are the ones who sustained peace there. So how we can ensure on one hand, and to work with donors, for example, to provide more support to NGOs or civil society organization that on the ground are working to make 13.25. On the other hand, I think it's important as always to continue making reports on the, on the, on the implementation of 13.25. But I think it should be transparent and clear that there has been implementation that is so uneven and so slow. And I believe that you always have to show the cost of undoing things of not doing the right things. So if we could show example but really work and short sample when doesn't work. It will be very important to be honest, I, there was this last cyber talks. Women in the UN delegation have not been members of the nation so I think we need to continue for example preparing women that are interested in these issues and mentoring them and supporting them when they are at the country level and we just appointed a new special gender side. And at least she was a woman from Africa she was one of the women who work on peace, peace negotiations at the middle and ground level, and she had a great experience that I'm sure she will be able to provide also now a special potential gender side. Well thank you for that, which I think is some signs of hope in what is not a very hopeful scene. But can I, we have quite a lot of questions and I know we only have you on for another, maybe 10 minutes, 12 minutes. So I'm going to group a few questions together and the tone of these questions. To be frank, are from Irish NGOs, development NGOs, human rights NGOs who are very active in the field of development and human rights. And there is a common theme, which is a sense of really disappointment with the Security Council, especially in the area like in Myanmar. What can it what is it likely to do by way of effective action Syria quite a few questions on Syria. I think we all know what the difficulty is in Syria, but is. Any grants for hope that we can in any way alleviate the suffering of the people of Syria, and then a question in relation to human. The International Criminal Court, and really the problem dealing with the fact that many of the great powers are not signatories to the Rome statute and you outlining your presentation very much the role which the Council has at times taken in relation to referring cases to the ICC, but then there are the cases which are vetoed and are not referred by the ICC, not referred to the ICC by the Security Council. And then in responding to those three issues Syria me and our and referrals to the ICC and you have already spoken about civil society. But how do we mobilize more effectively as civil society to make sure some of these forgotten issues are really more center stage on the agenda of the Security Council. Well, I'm from the UN so I'm not going to give any for my personal opinion Security Council, but I think, of course, nobody's aware that there's a lot of situation Security Council that has made. That sometimes certain resolutions are do not include what everybody would like, or they are failed softer, or, and because I think, well, the, the situation of five countries to have the capacity of a veto. It's a real thing that in my country always were for a reform of the Security Council but that has not been able to happen because they have a bit of that veto the reform as well. So there has been a lot of conversation and discussion for so many years about these issues. So, of course, and the Security Council and the Human Rights Council. I mean, security piece human rights are very political issues. So many times it's very difficult to get into an agreement that satisfies everyone. So I would say, yes, I would have loved in Myanmar that it could have been discussed more as an important topic, more than any other business in that area on any other business. And I think there has been a solution. But of course, some people felt it was not strong enough. We have been working strongly on this and two weeks ago I had a lot of meetings with the, I mean, virtual meetings with the ambassadors of ACA because we were calling for, I mean, for the ACA leaders meeting to be able to. And to understand, and I know how ACA works, they are really, they were very consensus and of course inside ACA like in the international community like in the General Assembly, there are different positions on many of this conflict. And of course, I think, I think that one of the things on Myanmar, the ACA had a declaration they decided to put a special envoy, some people and people inside Myanmar are not happy because there was a discussion on the release of political prisoners. But, but at the end, they did decide to take action they did decide to discuss the issue and they're going to send a special envoy that I hope it could go with a special envoy the secretary general from Myanmar. And so they could really be able to talk to all the different parties. One of the things important things, not maybe in the Security Council, but maybe members they could do is try to get in touch with the, the new United Government, National Government, and also with the civil disobedience movement. Because one of the concerns that I have is that the civil society are very, very disappointed, but are very, very concerned and feel that the international community has left them alone. So it's so, I think they need the voice of the international community to tell them, you're not alone, we are working as much as we can, we try to do as much as we can. The other because you know the TACMA though I mean the Administration Council that they have created after the coup d'etat has defined that all NGOs international and nationals should be registered. So many has the real risk and threat to not be registered to not be able to receive funding so I think it's very crucial. In many countries, the recognition official recognition of the National United Governance impossible, but made, but still there's a lot of them they're talking behind doors, if I may say, and supporting them and knowing what they need. And then the same with the civil society organization and of course we need to insist and that was our main message is when discussing to all the ambassador to bring the message to capital to bring it hopefully to the discussion was to stop violence. And to of course release all prisoners and to try to restore a political dialogue that will mean possibility of going into a peaceful restoration of democracy and peace because one of the problems that I've seen. We don't have an office there we're not permitted to be there but we from Bangkok we have a lot of relationship with the people in Myanmar. And we do know that some young people because as you saw the beginning was all peaceful assemblies peaceful demonstration but when they started to be killed. I mean, last week we had 750 people we could verify with names who were killed and a lot of more than 300,000 500 detainees. And the thing is that many of them are starting to think look the peaceful way is not the way. So it echoes in some way the Syrian process being a different geopolitical situation. So that's what something that concerns us as well I mean concerns of the valuation of human rights on protesters on them on on on on on on demonstrators. But it also concerns that that they some of them could try to go into more violent ways, and some of them have already done, of course with very basic issues like explosive domestic process devices domestic homemade weapons, but also the protesters who have fought against the time amount of many years and some of them even they have ceasefire for more than 20 years. They have started again with our attacks against them. I mean, one positive outcome of all of this is that people on the street realize that it was not only about election. It was about reforming the constitutions because if they stay with the same constitution, they will never get rid of, you know, a military control over the democracy. They realize that they need unity that they need to think in all ethnic groups and for the first time, many of them have realized that what the Rohingyas have been saying was true because they said before they did not believe that. So that's the positive outcome. The national unity government does not have any Rohingyas inside. And that's not, and it's not involved yet with the armed groups but we don't know what will happen so I think it's very important for countries to engage with them and support them. Only on Syria. Yes, I mean we just had a couple of weeks ago, the celebration of the commemoration because there's nothing to celebrate on the 20th anniversary or since the, the Syria conflicts. And really, I was interviewed and somebody asked me, what can you say to the Syrian people. Can you tell them that this is going to be over tomorrow and I said no I cannot. I'm sorry I cannot. The only thing that I can do is to ensure that we are trying to do as much as possible and as office we are monitoring all the human rights violations and so on. And we are really concerned and tomorrow will be an activity on missing person because we really we need to find a mechanism to be able to know the whereabouts of the missing people in Syria as well. But I think we are in a very polarized world. I think this is much, much time more important than human rights. And that's what we live in and we need to find ways on how we can convince members state that need to take action that are central because of course, big powers are very important in all of this, that they took that action on it on the occasion of international criminal court. Well, it's true only the signatories of the wrong statute but on the other hand we have seen the case of Myanmar, for example, I know the case as well, but the concept of universal this jurisdiction is working so you can have to be honest, but there are other communals and other causes that can come to the, as the case of Myanmar that Gambia sent, you know, this request to the ICC, but also the, there are other other ways and because I mentioned that the ICC was one of the possibilities but not the only one. We cannot send it to the ICC, neither the Secretary General can send it to the ICC. It has to be the Security Council. But what can be done and we have done it in the Human Rights Council is to create commissions for inquiry, or to propose to the General Assembly to create an investigative commission like the one in Syria or like the one in Myanmar, because the commissioners inquiry do not have that they're not criminal investigations. They can provide a lot of information that we keep under security reasons. In the case there is a tribunal we can bring all this information because many of these commission inquiry do are able to receive information of perpetrators that could be accountable when there is a tribunal or the ICC or whoever thinks is important. But on this criminal, on this other investigative mission, these are have a criminal investigation and this can also be very important in terms of the results. But what can civil society do to be able to ensure that all of this is better implemented? Well, I think civil society sometimes feel, I mean, I know that during last years when there has been a backlash on human rights and particularly in COVID-19 context, there has been a shrinking space for a civic space, a civic space, a shrinking space for civil society, many human right defenders are attacked, but on the other hand civil society in democratic countries where they can really raise their voices, they need to raise their continue raise their voice. Need to build, if I would say, broader constituencies because if everyone works in silos, we're not going to have enough strength to make a difference. And need to support much more. And donors also need to support much more civil society at the country level because some of them because of emergency measures or as an excuse. And some because really they had to divert the money to COVID-19 medicines and so on. They took away the money they were giving nationally in some NGOs. So I think, but I think that's something that I always think when I go to any country and I see and I meet a lot of NGOs and civil society organizations, they're all into their own business. They're all LGTBI, women's issues, human rights or whatever. And I do, and that's correct and that's fantastic but we need also to understand that when there is a backlash on human right, we need to make our voice be stronger by maybe taking initiatives in common and making their voice be heard harder, sort of building greater constituencies. And the second thing is that if we only talk to the convinced, we are lost. And then when I have meetings with the civil society, always the convinced one in women's issue in human right in anywhere. And I think that's wrong. We need to reach out much more people and to include much more people on this fight for peace and security, human rights and development. Thank you so much, I commissioner. And I don't want to detain you. Will you allow me to ask you one question. Just very, very last, and it's the issue of climate change because too often it is the human rights aspect of that particular topic are ignored. Could I ask you just, however briefly you choose to do it, to maybe address what you would like the Security Council to try and achieve in this area from a human rights perspective. All the islands currently co shared with Mexico, the new informal Security Council mechanism that will look at this issue and I, I think that's a great opportunity to be honest but let me tell you something. Not only a Security Council that many people don't realize that there is an impact of human rights with climate change. When in the last couple in Madrid, I was invited by the biggest university to the medical school to talk about climate change and health and human rights. But to be honest, I'm a medical doctor so I could really move on those issues very well, but it was, everybody was completely surprised because they did not link human rights to climate change and to health. Because usually when we work in health, we know the right to help but we don't speak on the language of human rights so what I need to say is that I think we need to show better, which is the impact of a human rights and climate change. And I think for me it's clear that it has clear human rights implications. I think we need to bring the human right perspective when discussing climate security, but we need to show exactly how it works. And of course, I think, I think we should also try to build on the, how processes now are so intersectional. Because if you think on different aspects that are linked to human rights, but that also lead between them, for example, climate change with migration. Food insecurity. So there's lots of things that there's lots of different human rights are involved with this. And we see it in Myanmar for example now in Myanmar, the estimates are that almost half of the population will go into terrible food insecurity, because of the strikes because of the different situations. In Myanmar and we see the huge famine that is there. So, I think it's a real opportunity to make sure that human rights was earned, either through the participation of UN human rights organizations, and people who are present in the field, or through civil society and I think one possibility is when the island is in the presidency, maybe you could bring this topic on board. And of course, I have to tell you there's any discussion at the security council or even another formula, because, because sometimes when there are issues that are not really the ones who everybody wants to bring it to other formula, I'm willing, I'm willing to go to participate and try with concrete data, because I think many times people don't know the data, how is how it is impacted human rights, because of climate change. And for me it's obvious, for example, when you think on a small island, when the ocean has has gone up, and people has had to leave the coastal border, that their livelihood have lost their livelihoods, and then they have to go inside inland, where the way of living is our culture, and there have been fishermen for the whole life.  So there's lots of things that can be discussed that I hope will help the security council to consider that climate security is also an issue of human rights. And if we want to prevent climate, more climate related conflict, we need to think on this. Let me give you our last example. Many of the people who are being migrants to the US from Central America. Many of them is because of climate change, many of the coffee plants has been destroyed. So they lost the jobs because they, so that's one of the reasons, of course, there are the reasons violence and so on, poverty, etc. But if we don't include climate change with the rest of the things but they're all into human rights implications, we will not be able to solve any problem because root causes are at the end, the root causes the drivers of conflict are inequalities and that is solely human rights. Thank you very, very much. Hi Commissioner thank you for your generosity with which you shared your time today and thank you for your offers to support and our work on the Security Council in that area of human rights especially and and also then climate and human rights. You're very inspirational I'm saying that genuinely and thank you and we look forward to maybe at a future post covert time seeing you again. Thank you so much. All the best for you and for all the ones who are following this seminar. Bye bye.


So what I will talk is I think that it's a bit different from what we have been what all of you have been showing here So here in Catalonia the world with volunteers It's not that extent as other parts of Europe like UK, Ireland, Netherlands, Germany So we really don't have this kind of a big projects working with a lot of volunteers So the case that I will explain it's a very very small village We are in the center of Catalonia. It's a small village with less than 6,000 people that it was prior in this area just Doing something with the students. So this is this is the village the village have a High school and to do something with the students when they finish the classes Between the parents have holidays one of the teachers they decided, okay We can do something with the heritage in the community. This teacher was interested. So they can start to do a summer camp 10 days per year Just to look for all remains that they were knowing that they was so the remains are in that area This is a zoom of this area. So and it turns out that it was at least four big sites mostly medieval but also modern With interesting the remains so they start to dig here in 2005 and we had been doing this until today and keep going So the volunteers, this is just works with the volunteers So the main volunteers are the students between 12 and 16 so They don't help with All the students from the same high school that now they become archeologists Just because they have been sharing this project for many years. So they came every single year and help us The retired people so they cleaned the site before we arrived. So all these retired man have also grew We have a group of motorbike that they borrow us these tents just to survive for the hot The women's of the village Made the breakfast so they pay us what not me but the students with the breakfast and the 50% of the swimming pool ticket from the summer And also the big company in the area that help us with the machine just to clean the hips and the spoils So who paid this so the city comes you really believe that this is a community project. So they Paid me I'm the only one that get the paid just because I have to do this as if it was a professional Being so I have all the permissions of the government. So I have to keep going the same So I need results at the very end So another another professional archeologist help me But we do all the registration system following the same things that if it was hundred percent professional So we get results. We publish articles. So We get final results. So this is the church starts to be deep in 2008 It it was just a pine of soil and just with the students So we have a group between 15 and 35 depending how much they They put in the list every year. So but the church that we work in two areas It had been changing a lot with the years just with them and What we have Is this now? The other side where we work, it's the tower we start to dig here in 2014 This is what's the view in 2014 and The same process. So here, of course the machine help us to clean a bit the surroundings But step-by-steps it keep going making this something else that it was not visible just 15 years ago, but just the same type of people that help us Stone based on moving what it's need to move So this is what we have now So What is this? So the project it's at now with the years It's part of a program that pretends to make this area like a busy as a site just to get guided tours So we realized that this is was the first place where the people of the area was placed in the medieval times around 10th century and from there around 13th century they move from where the city It's the billets. It's right now. So this is a very important place from the story of the locals So they really want to put this and make it visible and be able to have guided tours But always have been one of the main things this teaching aspect So the kids the students learn how to do the things But at the same time they are part of the discovery of the village and they are learning to appreciate the cultural heritage and Another thing is that everybody in the billets in one way or the other if they want it can be part of the project So trying to answer the three main questions of the session So what are the roles of volunteers and how to manage their and other expectations? So everybody have clear. What's the role is there and it's my Job and the other archaeologists that help me just to make sure that everybody follow the rule So we are very lucky because the city hall really believe in us. So we are following a very strict system. So the students think Think everything whatever it's appear under our supervision They we teach them how to do all the job. It's it takes it will takes forever this excavation But I mean there are new archaeologists now that they can keep going So also the ones that have another interest they can come with their tools with their toys And they can take these aerial photos. So the aerial photos that they show you They start being done for one of the boys that participate one of the years on the side So can the public itself be volunteer? Not really now. So they have to be in this list at the beginning. So the people that visit us Visit us. It's enough to deal with the students. Just we can really not make this bigger But if they tell us in advance we can include them on the group and The last question is how volunteers can contribute in the archaeology Archaeological outfits for us. It's also very important to show these so at the end of the season the kids the students Explain their experience and explain from the people that visit us in the open day But explain this in the school explain these are the parents explain explains these are the friends So the main goal is that makes them happy have a great experience in the summer and they will keep going appreciating what they have and telling the others that With less resources we can make this possible. So this really can help this ask with us. That's it


We're going to go ahead and get started. Cool. Hi, everybody. Good morning. Afternoon. Yep, after 12. First question. Difficult question. Before I introduce myself, we introduce everybody. How many of you are attending this event for the first time? Good job, it's the first time this event's being done. Sure question. All right, so that's our little icebreaker. But I also get a nice shot for the B roll for the summary video. My name is Bart Farrell. I am a C and Steph ambassador. And I'm currently doing the podcast QFM for Learn Kubernetes. If you're interested in sharing your experience about the difficulties and challenges around working with Kubernetes in all of its forms, please get in touch. Apart from that, content creator from the US originally, but living in Spain for the last 12 years, I ran the data on Kubernetes community from August 2020 to March of this year. And I'm still working in the data space. I'm also an ambassador in the SOTA Foundation. I know the topic of story I just mentioned in the last talk. I would also like to give a shout out to the previous speaker. Eddie did a really good job. It's going to make our job a little bit harder. Shout out to him.  I think like seeing a lot of KubeCon talks, having seen one that was laced together so well from a technical perspective, but also very human and creative. So I enjoyed that. So that being said, we're going to be talking about the future of database as a service with four well-seasoned folks that are very knowledgeable about the ecosystem. I told them in our previous call that I would do a quick intro for them, but I also want them just to tell us in 20 seconds about their background experience with database as a service. We'll start out with Oded. I'll share the part that I can tell you is that the founded multiple startups, ex-Googler, excellent basketball player before a career-ending injury, not like the one that happened to any. But take it away, Oded. What's your experience with database as a service? Hi. So my experience with database as a service started in my previous company. And with my previous company, it was very, very hard to scale with Redis. And that's actually why we created the Dragonfly DB. All right, good. Next up, Jordan. Should I jump in? Yep. OK. Jordan Tagani, co-founder of a company called MotherDuck. My start with databases as a service is I helped start Google BigQuery about 13 years ago and was an early engineer on the project and led engineering and then led product for a while until I jumped over to doing my own thing about a year and a half ago. All right, fantastic. Monica? So before that, before this, I'm Monica, the founder of a company called CETA. And we are building a data platform on top of Postgres. My journey started with a few years, seven, eight years of experience in the monitoring space. So I have experience with pushing databases to the limit by storing lots of data. And I started CETA because I started this nonprofit organization. And we couldn't find a database that can fulfill all our wishes. Good. OK. Yeah, and I'm Lisa. Can you hear me? Is this still working or do I need that? I think you're good. Oh, OK. Oh, OK. I'll just take this one. Hi, I'm Lisa. I have worked at, I think, four database companies now. Most recently, for the last three years, I was at Cockroach DB. I did not cue Eddie up to say those nice things about Cockroach. But I'm a stand-safe ambassador. And that's who I'm representing here today. So I run a really large user group out of the San Francisco Bay area. And I've been running that user group, showcasing end user stories and getting to meet amazing people like Eddie for the last 10 years.  I might be able to feature you on a big stage. Perfect. Nice introduction. So in terms of the conversation today, I'm going to ask the speakers to keep their answers relatively concise so that we can have more direct interaction with the audience when we do Q&A at the end. But to get started, Odette, if you can answer this question, it's going to be of a significant interest, I'm sure, in KubeCon, given what's come up recently in the infrastructure area around Terraform versus OpenTofu. But in terms of open source database providers, how are things evolving in terms of the licensing models? And what does that mean? What's the impact then more broadly for Dbass customers? So I think that we're now seeing for the last few years kind of a shift between regular open source licenses like Apache and MIT towards newer licenses like BSL. And I call this shift Open Source 3.0. And basically licenses like BSL, you can think of it that they allow you everything. Like you can see the code, install it, do whatever you like with it, take it to production. The only thing that you cannot do with that is you cannot run a competing service against the creators of the open source. And I think that this is an amazing model for the companies because the companies themselves, they can feel safe about their business model. Every contribution that they do with the code goes to all their clients or all their users and not to the competitors. So the developers wins twice. First, more open source is being generated. And second of all, they can use it wherever they like. Maybe Lisa, I know that you're very, that open source is very close to you. What do you think about BSL licenses? Should it be considered as open source? Wow. OK, we're at an open source conference. And the Linux Foundation and the CNCF have very, very strong opinions about this. And we just got in this huge debate at all things open. I don't know if someone told you to ask me this question because I'm not literally, but I pretty much figuratively got tarred and feathered when I suggested that companies like Cogger HDB and so many other ones out there who have a BSL still should be considered to have an open source product because they have, the code is very transparent and it's all up there on GitHub and you can actually take it and fork it. And they have an Apache license, but they literally don't have a license that says you can take it, fork it, and sell it for commercial use. And apparently I was told that that is the actual definition of being open source. And people feel really, really strongly about this. Luckily, there's good reasons to have a BSL and it still means your company, you can still be very open. They had 25,000 stars on GitHub because of the transparency. But, and it protects you from, I don't know, the Amazons and the companies that gives you a three-year head start anyway to keep your proprietary technology safe. But you can still have a serverless version that you offer for free. You can still offer databases of service and support it through a free Slack channel and a free Discord channel. And you can go a long way and like my previous company had an incredibly generous free tier that tens of thousands of users were using. So I would argue they have more open source users with their community addition than they would have people paying for them. But I will leave it up to you all to decide if that makes you an open source company or not. My answer will be a bit different. Just a bit of a history. Before I was working for five, six years at Elastic and I was at Elastic, the company behind the Elastic Search, probably you already are familiar with that. And I know how many discussions we had to about changing license is, I can tell you it was a difficult decision. And, you know, there was a trend that not only Elastic change the license but also MongoDB, Redis and others. And my opinion is that, you know, you will see that more or more older companies, database companies, they changed their license, but the new database companies, they didn't. So they have, they use Apache 2 or MIT. But I think it's just a matter of time until AWS or other big players, you know, cloud providers are, you know, get making use of their services as you use it. It's just a matter of, you know, they are waiting for those services or those database platforms to be kind of successful enough to be able to do the move. So I think in my opinion, it's just a matter of time until database companies in particular will change their license to a more source available. And I think as a personal advice, I think in order to be protected, I think it's more important to search for other ways. I think it's important to, when you choose your core database to think about to choose something that has supports an open protocol. I think in my opinion, the factor standard protocol for databases is Postgres wire protocol. This is something that it has a more open, you know, license, it has a foundation. And I think if, you know, there are lots of database companies that are implemented that protocol. So I think it's easier to migrate your database to another provider. I think this is the biggest worry that you have to have being locked in to a database provider. All right, Jordan, another duck? Yeah, so I've got a slightly different take on it. And I think one of the reasons that, you know, people have felt the need to have these other licenses is a side effect of the way that open source companies tended to get funded is, you know, you start, you build the open source product, you get a lot of usage and a lot of excitement around it. And then people will give you money based on that. And you're like, hey, I'm gonna build this. I'm gonna build this company. And the thing is like you're then incentivized to get more and more users, you know, of course, but you're not really incentivized at least in the earlier stages to actually make, you know, make the thing that you're going to start making money out of and say, people say, well, how are you gonna make, how are you gonna make money with your business model? And you say, oh, it says. And that's coming later. And one of the problems is that people don't spend enough energy on like, what are the real differentiators in our SaaS service? What are the things that we can do that because of how we're deploying, because of how we're building, like what are the things that we can do that are unique? And then when you do that, when you kind of innovate on the service side, it's a lot harder for an AWS to come along and just sort of like spin up a competing service. And it's really hard as an open source company if you're to spend a lot of money and time and energy and thought on that SaaS service when you're just, you know, you're fighting tooth and nail to sort of build a great open source company. Which I think one of the exciting things that we've did sort of at MotherDuck is because we are working very, very closely with the open source duck DB team. The open source duck DB team is focused on building a great open source database. And we realize, hey, no, we have to build, we have to build a real differentiated service. And we have to get people to pay us even if they can, even if they can sort of clone at least the open source, the open source components of it. But if you look at some of the other, you know, companies building on top of open source that are doing this well, you know, look at like NeonDB, PlanetScale, you know, they don't actually own the, they don't drive the open source projects themselves, but they have found a way to build a really kind of compelling service on top of kind of more pure open source. All right. Another growing trend that we see from the, one thing from the Data on Kubernetes Research Report is about how the fastest growing workloads in terms of new workloads making their way onto Kubernetes or AI and ML. And in one of the talks previously from Dominique, I don't know if he's still here, if that was really cool. He, you know, he was speaking about, about machine learning workloads, also AI. But if we're talking about databases of service, what's the effect here overall that AI is providing for databases and in terms of their use cases? Odette, what are your thoughts on that? So a year ago, I said that in a year, all databases will have a vector search. I think that, I kind of think that I'm right. Even Dragonfly now have a vector search. I have another prediction. I think, and I wonder what's your opinion on that? I think that in a few years, there will not be any database that does only vector search. Okay, this is like, for me, vector search now is like an operator on the database. It's like an equal sign or greater than. There will be no database in the future that supports only an equal sign. So that's that. This is how I think AI is an ML, is changing the database world. But I think that basically the role of a database didn't change because of AI or ML. It's still the predominant way to store data and to retrieve it and to get statistics out of it. I don't think that anyone here would like an ML model to calculate the balance in the bank or something like that, right? Having said that, there are many others, small things that are changing with AI. So SQL is a language. I'm not sure about it. Like I'm sure that it will be in the backend, but maybe it will be more natural, natural language in order to query databases. Also, database optimization. This is something that AI and ML models would be able to do better, like query optimization. But I really like to hear your opinion maybe about vector search databases in the future. Yeah, I was actually thinking, there's a lot of graph databases, like Neo4j for instance, I was just looking at some of the stuff they're doing. I think they're optimizing for AI and for ML. So I think we said earlier, there's a bunch of different types of databases up here represented from the companies that we work at. And I think somebody said it in earlier presentation, there's, you need to figure out what's your use case to figure out what database and what type of database you want. What is it, like 300 database companies out there? But one of the things, I actually looked up a couple of companies. I don't know if you've worked with Apache Flink or Debezium or some of the stuff, Red Pandem and Decodable is doing because right now the amount of data that AI and ML is producing and the amount of real-time queries that people wanna start running against these, we're talking billions and billions of records and transactions like per second, even if you're talking about financial institutions and some of the other really, really big applications that are out there. So I think if someone is figuring out, and I think some of those companies that I, or some of those projects, the first two were open source projects, Apache Flink and Debezium, what they're trying to do is help these platforms be able to actually manage and run those large queries against this real-time data that's coming in. So I think this is a new and exciting part of the industry. I don't know if you have other thoughts on that. So I really agree with this concept that I don't think there will be in the future just the database, they just have the vector search. I think, I mean, we at CETA, we have, we target as a persona, the builder, and we see now the majority of companies that are creating now, they are building AI application or in the AI space. And I think that's why I think this is one of the reason why all these database companies, they need to have an invest in having AI component. And currently most of the users are looking for vector search, but I think in the future, they will have to add more functionality in order to make a easier experience for the users, right? In order to have out-of-the-box experience. So currently in order to, for example, to store embeddings, so I think this is the first step in order to have vector search. But currently in order to have embeddings, you need to have an extra code, you need to have extra code to kind of split all the text into small chunks and then basically compute embeddings by using LLM. And I think that will be the next step that databases will go after, basically go into the direction of getting more functionality from frameworks like Lama Index or Launching in order to kind of improve the experience for main customers that have build applications on top of AI. I also think that AI is an area where if you're building databases as a service, you can really differentiate on top of just pure open source. If you're building interesting AI features inside your database, those are things that you can say, hey, this is why it's better, this is why it's easier to use, this is why it's faster, more optimized, et cetera, than what you could do if you were trying to do this on your own or if you're trying to do this on your own. Maybe even the AI components are open sourced, but it's just a lot more work to tie things together. On the analytics side, we've already seen that people are changing how they're doing their analytics, they're doing their job, just as it's similar to GitHub Copilot is changing how developers are doing their jobs. People are already starting to use chat GPT and other mechanisms to sort of, hey, how do I get the SQL for this? Can you fix the SQL for this? Can you, so I think that every database is going to be incorporating AI features. And then I think the big question that I think Oded alluded to was, okay, at the end of the day, what's the language that people end up using to interface? Do people save English text in their DBT scripts instead of SQL? Will it be reliable enough that you can just describe what you're doing in English? I'm not sure we'll get there, but it'll at least be an interesting journey. I think there's also lots of interesting things where, hey, you're using this AI to kind of make people better at their jobs rather than saying, oh, we're gonna sort of do away with SQL. SQL is, a lot of people have tried to kill SQL and so far it's still raining pretty strong. Never kill SQL, just improve it. That's the issue. Maybe I would like to add something else. Inference is expensive. It's expensive for all those models to run behind the scenes like GPUs. So I also think that a lot of databases would need to increase memory and caching in order to store all those inference results.  So that's another thing that I think would change in databases to the future. In terms of other trends that we're seeing in the Kubernetes ecosystem, because obviously AI is one of them, we've seen this across KubeCons, we see the different trends that are coming in, whether as software, supply chain, AI being mentioned, things around chat, GBT, multicod is still a very strong trend in the Kubernetes ecosystem. In terms of building proper data infrastructure, sorry, for multicod environments, what are things that are catching your attention on that? Maybe Jordan will still talk about that. Okay, go for it. I think actually, multi-cloud is super important. I think there's some interesting things where it's not just being in a certain cloud or another, but can you actually make it so that users don't have to even care where the data is? Is this in GCP? Is this in AWS? Is this in US East 1 versus EU, whatever, 4 or whatever? There are cases where people absolutely care. My data is not allowed to leave Germany or Australia or Singapore, but for cases where you can apply constraints to force that to happen, and cases where people don't care, like the data and computation should be able to run anywhere, and particularly, people want lower latency to the end user, can you actually push the work closer to where the actual users are running, and then the edge running in telcos running, whatever data center is actually the lowest latency to the user, and I think once you start to do that, it opens up lots of interesting opportunities to build services around this stuff. Now, and I think to your point on where you're, it really does matter when I polled a bunch of people earlier and asked what do you want to hear about on this panel, data residency, data locality, or probably the most answer to the question scalability, of course, but yeah, I mean, if you, maybe not US East, that's the one that seems to go down the most, for good reasons, by the way, not just ripping on Amazon, I think they get all the hardware first and everything breaks, that's what happens, right? So having a multi-region solution is not just important for data locality requirements, like GDPR, but also for obviously resiliency, and you know, if latency, there's going to be a trade-off, is I guess the point I'm getting to, because if latency really, really, really does matter, I mean, we've had customers say, I don't care, I am running everything in US East one because I need the absolute lowest latency, I'm willing to take the risk of if it goes down, and people might, it depends on what your business model is, right? Others, not a chance, you know, and you have a lot more use cases, like online gambling is a huge one, and where the data has to be, and where the workloads have to be, and also like in-game betting, you know, you're watching the World Cup, I know you're watching the World Cup, you start betting on like penalty kicks per kick, but you live in Australia, but your data center's in Malta, because they all are in Malta, right, they have to be, and I had to throw that for my Maltese friend over there, but you cannot miss that kick, right? You can't have that transaction not happen, so you have to set up your environments in ways that you're going to be able to, you know, make these use cases possible. So what's the right use case for you, and then pick the technology that will support that, and SQL's not going to wait, by the way. I'm a big fan of SQL, and Distributed SQL, especially where I just spent the last three years getting my head wrapped around, and it's really cool stuff, and no SQL's really cool, too. So it's, again, pick your poison. Do you want to turn it? What I would like to add to this is that, I think one of the challenges of having multicloud is that you need to really have to synchronize the data between different cloud providers, and I think this is, you mentioned the Basium, which I was a bit surprised earlier. I don't know if you're familiar with this. Basically, it allows you to copy data and to replicate the data and synchronize the data, but I think the biggest problem with the Basium is that it only replicates the data, but it doesn't replicate the schema or the views or function definitions. So basically, this is something that we are working at, Seja. We are building a new kind of application, or you would call it internal APG Stream. It will be allowed, it will be released soon that also does that. So if you are curious, or if you want to, if you have any issues with the Basium, and would like to hear from me, I would love to hear about that. I want to touch a few things that were said here. I think that as data companies, we have a responsibility to free the data of our users. So basically, clouds are great machines to offer CPU memory and storage. Kubernetes is built on top of that to build an orchestration layer on top of that. And now you can move from cloud to cloud with your computation mainly, but storage still remains the predominant place that you cannot move from cloud to cloud. So the data is not yours to move. And it's our responsibility as data companies to actually make your data portable. So you'll be able to move between the clouds and then you'll be able to do all those wonderful things like going to the lowest latency or going to the lowest cost cloud. The cloud provide them themselves will never offer that, I think. Okay, we're getting towards the end. What I would like to finish with before we have time for questions, I would like each of our panelists to summarize if you can in 30 seconds, about from all the things that we've been hearing today, if end users need to be focusing on one thing and one thing only when it comes to database as a service in the future, what should that be? So think about all the things that we've heard about in today's co-located event, moving forward, what are the things that you think people absolutely must have on their radars? So we can start with you, Jordan. Wow, put me on the spot. Everybody else gets to think for another couple of minutes. I can ask another question before you answer, sorry. This is wildly inappropriate, but if someone works at Mother Duck, are they a Mother Ducker? Absolutely. Okay, sorry. Yeah, no, no. You heard it here straight from the service folks. We realized we either had to pretend that we had no idea what any connotations or whatever would be around the name or we had to just embrace it. So like, I love it. One of our things is embrace the duck. So yes. Oh yeah, yeah, yeah. Yep, hoody penny. All right, so that being said, 30 seconds. I think building databases as a service and running databases as a service, I think it's really key to have a great relationship with sort of the open source team. We're very, very much fans of open source and I think we've sort of built a unique model in how we've done this with the DuckDB team and that we're hoping that if things work out at Mother Duck, people will be like, hey, that's a good way to do it. If it doesn't, maybe we have taken one for the collective team. But having basically the core DuckDB team who's built the open source, they actually own part of Mother Duck. So if things work out for us, it'll work out for them and that helps keep them aligned with what we're doing. But on the other hand, they keep the IP pure and they kind of have the DuckDB foundation that we don't have any control over. And I think I'm hoping that this is a good model for open source in the future. All right, Monica, 20 seconds. No pressure. So I think it's interesting because we are kind of different type of databases here and I think what I only encourage people is to kind of, you know, when you build a data platform, when you're building application, basically you need multiple data stores to, and then you have to replicate the data. You have to synchronize the data between them. So I think it's really important to use the data store that is right for you for the use case that you have. For example, if you want search, probably you need something like elastic search. If you want transactional database, probably you want to go with Postgres or something that implements a Postgres wire protocol. So I think there's always, yeah, I think that's my takeaway on this. Okay, thank you. I think there's a statistic in wine, it used to be in the wine industry, saying if you put an animal on your label, you have 25% more chance of somebody actually picking your wine. I think that applies to databases too. If I'm looking around at this panel, there's a lot of flying cute, flying insects and ducks and cockroaches and dragonflies. So choose your database based on the animal on the label. But also I'll just use a little data-driven point here. If anybody's afraid of running database as a service, first I would say don't be, because this is the future of databases service panel, but it's actually here, if anyone is thinking it's not. And even the largest banks in the world who swore two and a half years ago that they would never move everything to the cloud or even anything to the cloud are moving a lot of workloads to the cloud.  And just in case we'll use data to prove the point, I looked up some Gartner statistic numbers, this database as a service was a $10.4 billion industry in 2018, which was 23% share of the whole database management industry. And last year Gartner published that it's a $40 billion industry, which is half of the $80 billion database management market. So don't be afraid of it, it's here. There's lots of companies that are doing it really, really, really well. And again, just pick the workload that you're gonna run in the cloud and start there. All right, cool, we've got one more minute over there. I won't use the minute, I'll use 20 seconds. Think about, I encourage you to think about your users, what do they want from your service? And then your team, how are they going to support the scale that you need in order to service those users? And I think that handling now on your own databases is too complex and you would like to take responsible professional companies to do it for you. Very, very good, excellent. Thank you very much. Thank you very much. You've got time for questions, correct? Any questions? We have a question. So I'm not sure there's an answer to this question, but I'm curious to see what the panel will say. We've moved our open source from some combination of commercializing it with professional services and support and open core with enterprise add-ons. And over the last couple of years, we've just moved to actually having SAS as the business model, right? Where we're selling it as a service instead and at cease of use and all of those things. And AI and machine learning is probably gonna drive that more because it's hard to run those things yourself and you're gonna want to consume those as a service. So do SAS providers now drive open source strategy or does open source strategy need to define SAS providers? And where do the foundations fit in all this? I can take at least the first part because I think that I think SAS is a great model for open source because I think there was, if you're trying to sell services, you're trying to sell some sort of on-prem software, there's always the tension between what you can release as part of the open source core versus what goes in the enterprise version. The, you want to give more to the community, on the other hand, you need to have an actual business. And I think by putting it behind a SAS boundary, it gives you the opportunity to basically charge people for it without them thinking, well, what are you actually providing as value? Because if they were gonna run it themselves in an EC2 instance, they'd have to pay for it anyway and chances are you can do it more less expensively by using multi-tenancy and then also it lets you kind of do a bunch of behind the scenes innovation. So I think that it can help accelerate open source by saying, hey, there's a really viable business model for doing this by building SAS and you don't have the same kinds of divided incentives. Yeah, I was not in all alone like this and I very much agree with like currently what I'm seeing is that SAS is driving open source or BSL licenses or licenses like this. We are at the stage where we find the business model that can sponsor those. I think that there's almost no difference between the community version of the product and the service other than our ability as a service to optimize cost, our ability as a service to simplify the service that is provided. And I think that this is the main value that the SAS contributes on top of the open source. It's no longer an open core in most cases because almost all of the source and all of the features are out there. So the traditional way of open source is that you create an open source project, become successful and then you build a SAS offering. In my case, we did it the other way around in the sense that we started with the SAS and we are open sourcing some parts of the product that make sense to be used as a standalone project and solve a specific pinpoint. What I want to emphasize here is I think many people don't realize this but being in an open source space for, I don't know, 10 years or so, running an open source company or an open source project, it's a lot of work because you need to, besides dealing with the community but you also have to build packages for different distributions and so on. So in my opinion, it kind of adds up 40% of your resources. So what I'm trying to do with Sage is we try to concentrate all our resources in building features for users instead of going on the route of building packages and so on in order to kind of build features that kind of make the life of the developers easier and allows us to move faster with the product. You cannot imagine at Elastic how complex our spreadsheets were, this version work with this version and don't even get into account all the distributions and so on. So definitely I think it has a huge advantage to having a SaaS offering and we are betting for that. Okay, time for one more question, we gotta cut it. All right, well, we have the excuse to continue the conversation once we finish up. I want to say thanks again to our panelists, can we give them a round of applause? Also shout out to all the people who put the event together, it's the first time they're doing this, I hope it's not the last. So thank you very much and let's keep going.


Police say a man had stabbed his wife, then chased his stepdaughter stabbing her, leaving the teen unconscious in a pool of her own blood at these apartments on Mission Avenue. I got a wreckus and yelling, so I just assumed that they were in an argument, her and her husband, and then I heard screaming and then I heard what I thought was my name. As soon as I opened the door, I saw her and I saw a flash which was him running around the corner and she said, Jay, he stabbed me and she turned and I just saw blood all the way down her back and her face was very like so laid open on her left cheek as you can see and then when I looked down at her wrist I could see that her radial artery was most definitely severed because the cut was very very very deeply and then I remembered my neighbor was a Marine. He brings me literally a trash bag full of medical supplies and then the other Marine came up it was Staff Sergeant Brian from Headquartered Orderment as well. He ran up and he called 911. The grandmother Terry came up to me and was like Jay, he's stabbing Tatiana and I got there. She actually had a chest wound. I initially thought that it was her heart because there was so much blood and she was almost unconscious and it was trouble getting breath and breathing. So I just got her in a position of comfort, got the chest seal on, did a full assessment and I just knew like she was a baby and he was chasing her and I think you're like you said your mom, your mom instinct kicks in and I knew like her last words before she kind of went conscious was go get my baby you know and luckily it was just a team I'm telling you those Marines that wouldn't happen without them like it was amazing that Corman Marine team that dynamic it's so sacred and so amazing and we all knew what to do and worked off each other and it was really great.


Psychedelics are very interesting, and I think that over the next 10 years we're going to see them becoming more and more accepted in the mainstream, especially for all of their therapeutic benefits, including how they help people overcome depression and anxiety, and solve other mental health issues too. But the weird thing about them is that they are like a double-edged sword. If used improperly, they can cause the very same problems that they can solve. It's funny though, because then they can also be used to help solve the very problem that they caused in the first place. Like, if you have a bad mushroom trip that leaves you in a rough spot, if you have another one, you can correct that original imbalance. Super interesting, so be careful, and journey safely.