Coming up on DTNS autonomous vehicles need to report more mishaps Facebook is back to its cloning tricks and the Microsoft Google truce is off This is the Daily Tech news for Wednesday, June 30th, 2021 in studio Redwood. I'm Sarah Lane It's all like city Ohio. I'm Rich Frappolino. Sorry. It's all like city. I'm Scott Johnson And I'm Roger Chang the shows producer. Listen, we're all very excited to be on the show today as you can tell Mainly me Scott Scott is pumped We were talking about listen Scott has a bad back give him a give him a break everybody. We're talking about that before the show also commutes and How they can vary and suck depending on how far you have to go if you want the wider conversation on our expanded show Good day internet become a member at patreon.com DTNS let's start with a few tech things you should know Slack released a new audio tool called slack huddles which lets users have real-time audio conversations inside slack with included real-time Transcription slack is also working on a video feature to let users record and play back video voice and screen recordings natively in slack planning to offer it to paid teams in the coming months The Google Play Store will require new apps to be published with the Android app bundle starting on August Starting in August of this year replacing APKs as the standard publishing format Google introduced Android app bundle at IO back in 2018 and it uses 15% less space than APKs with faster install times Shopify will reduce the commission it takes on its Shopify app store to zero percent for developers that make less than $1,000,000 on its platform as of August 1st with developers charge 50% on marginal revenue over that $1,000,000 mark so 1 million and 1 15% this will also apply to Shopify's theme store set to open to developers on July 15th With each platform treated separately in terms of revenue AT&T announced that all Android phones on its network will use Google's Android messages app for both SMS and RCS Services so T-Mobile made that same deal with Google back in March Which leaves Verizon is the only US carrier still to switch to Android messages by default AT&T will also support end-to-end encryption for RCS that Google's rolling out to all customers this year compared to SMS RCS which stands for rich communication services also has things like no character limits can send larger files can show typing indicators offers better group chats and Wi-Fi supports and According to documents obtained by Bloomberg Amazon filed a request with the federal with federal trade commission to recuse commissioner chair Lena Khan from handling antitrust Enforcement decisions involving the company because she has a history of criticizing Amazon as a threat to competition Amazon says Khan's previous statements conveyed to any reasonable observer the clear impression that she has already made up her mind about Many material facts relevant to Amazon's antitrust culpability as well as about the ultimate issue of culpability itself The FTC is currently reviewing Amazon's proposed 8.45 billion dollar acquisition of movie studio MGM. I love that Big tech says hey that person doesn't like us. She should be removed All right, let's talk a little bit more about anything that might be of interest to a nest owner Google confirmed it will provide a critical bug fixes and patches for nest devices For a minimum of five years after a product launches with nine to five Google noting that current nest devices like the nest cam indoor Are still maintained after six years So five years in the minimum here the company also said that every nest product released since 2019 has been validated using third-party security Standards with validation results published for review So yesterday you guys had a whole story about those Western digital drives and the the sort of going out of Support and then them becoming part of a botnet and then everybody's stuff getting erased and all the controversy around that and I couldn't help from that coverage to just think about how many items are in my home or in your home or anyone's home That are supposed to be internet of things devices that are supposedly supposed to be various levels of secure Lots of different companies. I've got webcams from one company webcams from another company and it occurs to me That eventually we're gonna run into this this kind of large scale problem about patches fixes out of life Dropping support no longer supported sort of world Where we're just sitting on a maybe a bit of a time mom or I don't know Maybe you guys disagree with me, but it feels a little a little precarious at the moment Well, we've already seen this in a lot more like white box IOT stuff like baby monitors and stuff That's just kind of repackaged, you know standard system on a chip kind of stuff and put out there where there was like no support at All and then all of a sudden they show up on show Dan or something like that So this is great that Google is providing a a minimum clear amount of support now This isn't from the point of sale. This is from the point of release So, you know if you're buying something later in its life cycle, but just as important as this I think is kind of what the what what is the process of when you hit that end of whatever the service, you know Whatever the support is going to be is it just gonna be a pop-up on your you know your nest or your Amazon Device that says hey, you're out of support, you know, please upgrade I think a lot of the times for like phones and and maybe like streaming media players and stuff like that a lot of times Like the functionality is no longer there that kind of you know Encourages you to upgrade usually when those devices are out of service But like that Western digital Example, you know Scott people are still getting a lot of good use out of those devices or you know At least have them on their networks with valuable data on them presumably So, you know when when these are still functional devices, but they are out of support The I think the issue becomes not just the years of support, but how do companies let people know? Hey, this isn't getting bug fixes anymore. We've seen the UK kind of They're considering a secured by design law that basically says Disclosing to consumers at the point of sale how much support they still have on these devices That is not law that is just being proposed right now and it's been going back and forth for a couple years So we'll see if that ever happens, but you know, it's the support is great But also what happens at the end to give consumers some kind of choice that doesn't feel like planned obsolescence either Yeah, part of part of this is The problem part of the problem is we go to Amazon and we go what am I looking for? Well, I'm looking for some kind of doorbell camera thing Do I get a ring or do I pay for this really inexpensive one from a brand we've ever heard of? Well, maybe I'll do that Not a lot of people are going which one is gonna offer the most secure and longest term this and they're gonna make Sure their servers of that and this and the other and all the data protection I need no one's thinking about that any more than they used to think about it when they bought a regular doorbell So now we're just into a period of time where some of these commonplace household accessories slash I don't know appliances are asking for access in a way that we're maybe not even sure we're giving and I feel like that's all just ooh I just it feels like a fuse and I don't want to over you know overstate the danger But all I know is I'm thinking a lot about the little things all over this house that I haven't really vetted So I appreciate Google's transparency here. It's like here's what we're gonna do minimum five years Okay, you know yes from the release not necessarily from the day that you buy it But when you think of something like a nest product, right? Like I got a nest thermostat upstairs. That's the sort of thing that you don't buy thinking Well, you know, I'm gonna upgrade pretty soon But the company wants you to do that this whole end-of-life thing is because the company is like In five years, there's gonna be such a better thermostat.  Anyway, but that is a weird way to think of it when you buy something that's you know quote long-term whether it's a toaster or Laptop as increasingly becomes infrastructure in your home. It's easier to think that's a part of like the doorbell That's just part of my house, right? That's not that's not like necessarily tech I'm thinking I'm interacting with that's where the danger I think comes in when these devices leave support Well, let's move over to another place where there's a lot of danger sometimes anyway on our highways and byways the National Highway Traffic Safety administration announced a change in reporting requirements for autonomous driving systems Requiring makers of level two to level five driving systems to report incidents within one day of learning of a crash as Well as submitting monthly reports on all incidents Resulting in injury or any kind of property damage until now drivers assistance systems such as Tesla's autopilot have fallen into a Regulatory gray area where incidents don't require or receive further examination Level two driving systems must now report crashes involving a death or injury Treated at a hospital a vehicle towed away or an airbag deployment or even the involvement of a pedestrian or cyclist The NHTS a can issue fines of twenty two thousand nine hundred ninety two dollars per day For non-compliance or up to a hundred million dollars That's a that's a lot, but this is okay It's not that unrelated to the first article today that we talked about we we We are starting to see as we get further down the road with autonomous vehicles the need for I don't just mean Regulation and the government getting involved but the need for just some standards and rules and this just feels like more of that and I don't know how the Car makers slash systems makers are feeling about this, but yeah some some fines if you don't do it Well, and I think you know the Having level five autonomous.  It's it's doing its own thing Say well, yeah those those you know incident should be reported, right? Yeah, and the administration saying yes And so should so should all of these levels of autonomy because if you're talking about something like Tesla's autopilot, you know great example where You know there there is We're we hear well Unfortunately all the time we hear of incidents where it's like well what happened back there, you know There's an autopilot feature a driver is supposed to be totally aware. No, what's up can't be checked out Can't be watching a Netflix movie in their lap kind of a thing But there are enough incidents to happen where the company certainly is like hmm Okay, you know we mess up did they mess up? What's the deal but this isn't always getting reported and it's not as if the company is Necessarily going to be at fault for every report, but I I I do think I don't know I mean, I I definitely err on on the side of Let's please Proceed very cautiously with all of the stuff even though people are bad drivers, too, you know, but it's you know, it's let's let's a Let's move to a solution that doesn't present its own set of problems and you know keep hitting pedestrians type of a thing but Yeah, the fines of the fines are steep I think that you know, yeah, the Administration is not messing around here saying you got to report this stuff to us. We want to know what's happening You know, even if an airbag gets deployed, maybe nobody got hurt Maybe no went to the hospital. Maybe the cops weren't called but what happened and why especially when you have these sorts of systems on board and I think this is a shift from Allowing maybe some of these self-driving companies to view these kind of instances almost like trade secrets where you know Waymo or Tesla will come out and say we've driven so many thousand miles and we've had you know So many incidents per miles driven and stuff like that But not you know giving us the broad strokes but maybe not getting into the nitty-gritty and whenever these instances do kind of come up the Idea that there's always this ambiguity, right? It's like, oh, are we gonna get the Tesla report on this is the NHTS a involved or other, you know Other federal agencies involved when we will we'll get some clarity into this and it leads and honestly it leads to a lot of Sensationalized headlines attempts where we don't know the full facts, but people are assuming oh this you know This car had autopilot so this crash it seemed inexplicable must have involved the system or something along those lines I also wonder if this is You know the NHTS a and kind of other regulars kind of getting ahead of saying okay We need to build if self-driving is going to be a thing We also need to build a public trust around this Very similar to air to early air travel in a lot of ways where when there are these incidents people need to you know Not see this first maybe in the media with a lot of unknowns being flown out there We need to have facts on the ground as soon as possible so that we can inform the public of whether these systems are actually safe or not Yeah, and Roger Roger pre-show had a really good comment basically said that You know more data is always better better data more data You can build better models more reliable models based on that data as long as everyone's a good actor in that data Yeah, like collect all the data you can but boy don't mess up and not report it or you're gonna spend a lot of money Yeah, I mean it's gonna take a while to get to 100 million, but that's a hefty fine for saying meant to send that report Didn't send that TPS letter Well speaking of collecting all the data Facebook launched its own subscription newsletter service called bulletin in closed beta Users will be able to post content on the web send it as an email and Shocker share it on Facebook the company won't charge writers a fee for bulletin at launch and writers retaining ownership of their work and Critically subscriber lists Malcolm Gladwell tan France and Aaron Andrews are among the first writers signed up for Signed up for this in the beta period This is obviously invite only right now, but you know Scott are you gonna be when this opens up? You're gonna be first on there for Facebook bulletin probably not I mean I so everybody that the hot thing does your at the moment for Newsletters and or blog posts and subscription newsletters and that sort of thing is sub-stack and this is being seen as a bit of a Shot over that bow doesn't doesn't doesn't surprise me given its quick growth that others might get involved It's also the least surprising thing on this planet to hear that Facebook is Quickly building something out based on somebody else's success. This is what they do So not a shock at all and also arguably the perfect platform for it. If that's what you want to do personally I don't think I would see too much of this is a big threat I mean basically what they're saying is some big name writers might join into this in the early goings But it's really the long tail. I care about where's the unique stuff the niche stuff the things I can't get anywhere else will they happen here when they happen at sub-stack will they happen at You know some other feed service Hard to say but my my gut tells me there's room for more and there's no reason why this is really all that big of a problem Really, I think the reason people are most upset and I said this I'm pretty sure I'll say it again I think they're angry that they they found a niche in the market that is a little bit of a throwback It's it's newsletters and blogging basically and it's kind of back and they have control over whether they charge or don't charge for it And it's a great community builder and all this stuff and it kind of pulls away from the social media that we're all getting a little tired of in terms of its mass and Now here comes big social media saying well We're also going to do one of those and I think that just puts people off It's like if you're tick-tock and along comes reels or if you're like snapchat along comes tick-tock or you know Whatever everybody nobody likes them fiddling around in there in their garden and that's I think that's all this is but in the end I think maybe that freak out will be a little wasted because People are there's room. There's room for more of this in this this little nichey space. I think it'll be fine Yeah, this was this was Facebook launching bulletins didn't actually make it into our show yesterday Could have but there were a lot of other news But boy between yesterday show and today show did I read a lot of people just I mean It was I just wailing like can you believe that Facebook so? Blatantly ripped off sub-stackage just have they no shame and it's like where have you people been? They have no shame that I mean yes companies clone other company features all the time I mean look at clubhouse right like clubhouse is a feature for everybody now But Facebook in particular and of course Facebook owned companies Do this and and have for years Facebook cloning other services and trying to bury it into the Facebook experience doesn't always work But I do think that something like bulletin It makes more sense when you've got a big network that is Facebook based It's kind of like why Twitter bought Review which is another sub-stack competitor earlier this year. I'm not totally sure where Twitter is going with that Haven't heard much lately, but same idea the company same will hold on some people hang out on Twitter You know to be able to reach their audience most effectively and be able to promote new stuff and you know To have a newsletter component is something that we would want of course Facebook would want this as well I don't think I mean sure if it looks and acts exactly like sub-stack You you know give a little chuckle, but the folks that will go with Facebook as The basis for some sort of a newsletter offering that they're offering later I think don't care about that. They just care about reaching folks. Where do you reach them? It will be interesting Given the regulatory headwinds that we are seeing now this appears to be kind of a separate service that operates well within Facebook But unlike adding You know a clubhouse style audio chat room to messenger and adding rooms which is building off an existing product. I will be I Wonder what the the regulatory reaction will be to this for a wholly new product squarely aimed seemingly at you know You Facebook would argue it's addressing a customer need. There's that there's clearly a lot of interest in newsletters You know competitive concerns is this is Facebook being the 800 pound gorilla in the room, right? Well on on July 3rd, which is the Saturday our science correspondent Dr. Nikki Ackerman's will be releasing a limited series of podcasts called seniors in tech in the series Nikki will interview seniors examining how technology has impacted their lives first episode is gonna kick off with Allison Sheridan You know Alice and she's on the show all the time here and how her job as an engineer served as a gateway to technology and also to podcasting so check your DTNS feed this Saturday July 3rd kicking it off seniors in tech Bloomberg sources say that Microsoft and Google will not renew a Non-aggression pact that's been in place since April of 2016 in which both companies agreed to a formal process an Internal formal process on both sides for handling disputes that might otherwise go to regulators when it comes to things like web search Cloud computing and artificial intelligence plus they want to settle they wanted to anyway settle outstanding patent issues And keep competition limited to software innovation. Hey, we got to compete But let's try to play nice anywhere we can before we get the regulators involved Sounds like this ongoing truce has not been working that well as of late The companies have publicly feuded over a proposal that would force Google to pay news publishers for content We've talked about that on the show reportedly also disagree on how technology for selling search ads should work Speaking of search ads some breakdown apparently started a couple of years ago when Microsoft Complained that Google's search ads 360 that lets marketers manage advertising campaigns across multiple search engines Wasn't keeping up with new and updated features in Microsoft's own search engine Bing Customers choosing Google spots because it was just easier as a result Microsoft saying well, hold on a second I mean if we're an option and you're ignoring our cool new features that doesn't seem like we're not a truce in 2020 Microsoft spoke with UK officials and regulators in some US states about this issue So Microsoft was was not just complaining. There were there was some There were some talks to be had Microsoft also took public issue with Google's refusal to comply with the planned Australian law Would have forced it to pay news outlets for content on its sites and apps feature Comparing Google's inflexibility to the ad-tech dispute Microsoft saying Google was hampering free and democratic discourse At the time we even talked about it on the show and said look at Microsoft I mean why is Microsoft even needing to chime in really here, you know When Microsoft isn't actually the company that's you know been been so anyone's going after for its part Google has come after Microsoft Specifically in the cybersecurity category warning customers that using just one vendor for too many parts of the software stack Microsoft in this case puts them at greater risk of hacking and a blog post Google's SVP of global affairs Kent Walker wrote quote As we saw with solar winds and a Microsoft exchange attacks proprietary systems and restrictions in inner Operability and data portability can amplify a network's vulnerability helping attackers scale up their efforts So alright, so both Google and Microsoft Seem to be you know coming at the other with a variety of nitpicks that that could have gone to you know a regulatory Decision long ago the fact that the two companies said let's you know, let's kind of minimize this handshake, right? I mean Under six years ago both Google and Microsoft both had new CEOs both CEOs may have said a lot of the past squabbles Which I mean are many between Microsoft and Google in the past Let's let's put some of this to bed and you know the companies are going in a new direction. That all makes sense Doesn't sound like it. It's going to be renewed though. No, it sounds to me like it's not sustainable I don't I don't I don't know how it is with companies this big and with companies with this many fingers and so many parts of The market like both Microsoft and Google and others Apple whatever I don't know how any of these people they might be able to have small victories of we're working together on this one thing And it's going to be cool for maps or whatever, but this idea that they would play nice in The very competitive search market at least in the case of being which is maybe the closest We've gotten to a mainstream competitor to Google since the 90s You know, they they they I think it's I think it's a really noble thing to want But I don't know how they ever expected to have it I don't think it's sustainable and it's it's a world where these two companies have to compete So you can only pretend so much or maybe you can just do it in small cases and then not in others It's a little like Apple and Intel or Samsung and Apple or anyone else who's Supplying some product on the side, but otherwise compete in another area like You just have to get your wins when you can and not not get to worked up when you can't and I think that's these Two how are they gonna do it? I do wonder though and Microsoft has so far Somehow despite being Microsoft flown under the radar with all the tech regulation talk that we've been hearing for the most part So the idea that they're they're you know opening the doors now to hey We're gonna go right to regulars not gonna try and resolve this you know with a with a handshake and a and a gentle CEO agreement or something like that I think Possibly, you know Microsoft has done a very good job of staying ahead of issues They're they're ahead on a lot of privacy Facial recognition I just kind of to just off the top of my head issues where they're they're out the head and trying to set The tone for regulation coming forward But with with all of the competition they now have when when it comes to cloud when it comes to productivity suites when we see Compared to 2016 where Chrome OS is you know as a as a threat necessarily to windows They're outside of search right where they're the number one and number two in the US at least There's a there's clearly a lot of places where hey, we want to sell all these services to all these people and It it could get pretty ugly pretty quickly Yeah, it's also not that I am super surprised that behind closed doors Very powerful companies made some sort of a handshake agreement Perhaps sign some things. I mean, I'm not really surprised about that but at the same time. I'm like How long did you think this was gonna last?  That's almost laughable, right because it's it's it's not on the surface Sarah I didn't mean it that that was actually I'm a poet and I didn't know it but Microsoft well done. Yeah, well another point Microsoft Microsoft's xCloud game streaming is now out of beta We talked about it on the show with the quick hit. I believe it's available now all to Xbox game pass ultimate subscribers For all of your browser based cloud game streaming needs Scott You've had a chance to play around with this. What have you thought with the initial experience? Yeah, I went kind of nuts with it yesterday. So when the announcement happened I was like, oh, this is nice I don't even know if they had announced previously that it was gonna happen or at least they did but it was very short notice it's still technically in beta but It was limited for a very long time to Android devices and it may have been a couple of the things with Windows But like mainline Windows browser support mainline support for Macs for iOS Other devices was not there yet including their own Xbox series SNX and the ones not even ready yet But the SNX Series of consoles didn't even have support for cloud gaming yet That it all changed yesterday and I tried it on everything to get a taste for it including an Xbox series X where the game I was playing via the cloud was literally on the hard drive as well but I wanted to know, you know, how does this thing perform and My cut my takeaways probably not gonna shock too many people But basically anything that had a Wi-Fi connection worked better than I expected but had some lag Input lag really I wasn't having video lag or artifacting or any other issues. In fact, I played a game Dirt 5 for example very frame rate intensive game on a console run 60 to 120 frames on a TV depending on What your TV is capable of in its native form in cloud form. I was getting 60 frames per second I wasn't getting artifacting and I was playing this on an iPad Pro with an attached one of these an Xbox one controller Which I just happen to have an extra laying around so I synced it to that and it worked pretty much flawlessly again the only noticeable thing I had was a little bit of controller lag and I think that's the doubling up of controller lag because with wireless controllers We already have one layer of Bluetooth lag is as good as it is these days It's still not perfect and then you tack that on top of we're streaming this game via the internet It's a little extra layer of input lag those two together creates something I think a little more noticeable than you'd like I think Stadia's got a better tech for handling that currently, but we are in beta here. So who knows I tried this with the phone tried it with an iPad tried it with an Android tablet also Windows Chrome browser Safari on a Mac all of these performed nobly no problems Wiring in your controller makes a massive difference. So you eliminate one of those layers of input lag potential And on the series X, which is the kind of the most interesting comparison. I think It was kind of one one to one a little bit of a noticeable lag again because we're using wireless controllers But it felt great and looked great and you'd have a hard time telling I wasn't playing the native hard drive version of that game So it does feel like in a mainstream way That this the cloud gaming is maybe here finally And it will be interesting to see what others do To make compelling arguments for their services right now You can do this for 15 bucks a month and you can play it on anything And even if you don't own an xbox you can play it and all those game pass games are available Um, I'll just say my first initial impressions with needed more time to test Pretty positive. Um, I came away from this thinking it was uh There's a pretty cool implementation of this without removing all the other reasons you might go to these games on your pc or on your console Now there's just like another third or fourth way to play it And you're not paying any extra to do it and that's kind of nice Yeah, I was super skeptical when they I just the idea of playing like a high-end game streamed through a browser like especially on like an ipad or something like that Super skeptical. So glad to hear that they've ironed out some of those kinks. I know You know, depending on the game, obviously the lag might not be as critical as something like dirt five or something like that But uh, it it's it's fascinating to see how quick this space has grown just even from Uh, you know, stadia to xcloud and all the support they can have there. Yeah All right, well chris christensen is finally taking some time for an international flight Here's his latest tip for anyone doing the same This is chris christensen from amateur traveler with another tech and travel minute I'm about to travel internationally again next week. I'm doing an international flight And as I said before in 2021 that's complicated But there's a resource that will help and it's from iata, which is the international air transport association The same people who give airports those three letter codes if you go to iata travel center Center spelled the uk way c e n t r e Dot com then you can find information about every country in the world and what their restrictions are Whether you can get in with what kind of test and who can't get in That will help you plan your travel. That's iata travel center Dot com and i'm chris christensen from amateur traveler Oh international travel. This is a great tip. Uh, I know a lot of people are Maybe going international this year. So, yeah, definitely check it out because Restrictions vary quite a bit depending on where you're going where you're coming from If you have any feedback for anything that we talked about talked about on the show or might talk about on a future Show or anything in between feedback at daily tech new show dot com is where to send that email We will be waiting Also shout out to patrons at our master and grand master levels Including miss music teacher james c smith and justin zellers also thanks to two brand new bosses count them to Russell scogs dad and corrie cussart both just started backing us on patreon. Thank you russell. Thank you curry Thank you. Thank you. Thank you and a big. Thank you to scott johnson scott Where do people find you if they are so inclined if they've they've never heard of the scott johnson media empire Where can they find more about it? Wow, uh, wikipedia. No, uh, they they can go to frogpants.com there They will find all kinds of podcasts and content Probably send it in and around some interest they have and if you like the video game talk earlier on the show And what I bring to it on wednesdays. We often have game stories on wednesdays Uh, then you'll probably really like a couple of the shows I have over on the network So give it a shot. That's frogpants.com and if you're trying to reach out to me directly You can find me on twitter. I'm over there at scott johnson We are over here on this show money through friday at 4 30 p.m Eastern 20 30 utc and you can find out more at daily tech news show dot com slash live We'd love to have you join us live if you can we'll be back tomorrow Tom Merritt will be back as well and joined by justin robert young talk to you that This show is part of the frogpants network Get more at frogpants.com Diamond club hopes you have enjoyed this program


At Hackensack Meridian Health and Tackle Kids Cancer, we're making great strides every day. And every donation calls for a celebration. Oh, yeah. Nice up, Doc. My green hand? Join me in making a difference by donating to Tackle Kids Cancer. That's just that. With 100% of donations going to research and patient care here in New Jersey, that's something we can all celebrate. It's the hustle. No, it's not.


Welcome, Romania is always welcome, and the Pentagon, you're a staunch NATO ally, and you're a critical force of Black Sea security, and you look at the world and see what you're located for a better reliable part as part of the security in Europe.


You might have saw, I think it was San Diego or San Francisco where they just declared the NRA a terrorist organization. Would you agree with that? Yes. So you would agree with basically making half of the American population. Not half, but a pretty sizable amount, basically terrorists. I mean, members of the NRA, would they be terrorists? Members of the NRA. And my husband and I are gun owners if you want to know that. You don't get all, I'm not being hostile, it's okay. People who are members of the NRA will then basically be terrorists, right? Maybe they want to consider their membership. Mass shootings are done with revolvers, semi-automatic revolvers. Excuse me, just get rid of the military assault weapons. What makes a military, no military uses that gun. I think I've had my discussion with you. Okay, well thank you for your time ma'am, I do appreciate it. I can't, I'm gonna be telling people that.


Let's talk about electricity and you're all familiar with terms like voltage. This is a hundred ten volt appliance Power like this is a thousand five hundred watt microwave or even current This appliance uses 10 amperes or this fuse Will blow at 20 amperes But what do these terms actually mean and what is this electricity? So let's go one by one. Let's start with the electric current The electric current is simply the amount of charge that travels through wire per second So how many charge is traveling per second? So Coulomb per second Which gives us the unit on pair You compare you could compare this with the river Where this would be the amount of water per second that flows down the river or goes over a waterfall The next thing is the electric potential also called the voltage Its unit is volts Hence why we call it sometimes also the voltage What is the voltage? Well the voltage is the energy pair charge that Unit charge will encounter when it travels from one end of the wire to the Otter if you think of this with the waterfall again a change of energy in this case would be the potential a Gravitational energy from falling down So the higher the waterfall the more potential energy each molecule of water or each kilogram If we do the real analogy of what I would have at the top now with the Electricity it is not gravity that pulls the electron from one side to the other, but the electrostatic force so We would have the electric potential energy divided by the Coulomb so her Coulomb how many choose of? Potential electric energy do we have so this is What the? Electric potential or the voltage is now. Let's go to power you already know power from mechanics as the change of energy pair time and Now what we can do is you can take our equations from the current Being Coulomb per second how much charge per time so if there's some for time and put it at the bottom And we can use that the voltage is change of energy Her charge so Choules her Coulomb you can combine this and what we come up with is that the power for an electric device is Simply the current times the voltage on which it operates So let's do a little example So let's say we have a thousand five hundred watt microwave that operates at hundred ten voltage 1500 watts 110 volts you want to know how many amperes Go through the microwave for example to see if our fuse will be able to hold it or if it will blow immediately so power is Voltage times current Therefore if we're selling for current, this is power over voltage. So we have thousand five hundred What over 110 volt? gives me Around 14 amperes


to physical therapy for a better life. I'm your host, Christine Lenders, physical therapist, board certified orthopedic clinical specialist. Today, I have a great show. We're going to be talking about how to heal yourself from the inside out. And I have an amazing guest. It is my long time and life friend, Michelle Mullen. She is a daycare owner and an herbalist and she's going to be teaching us everything we know about how we can add broth to our diet to heal from the inside out. Welcome Michelle and thank you for coming to physical therapy for a better life. Thanks for having me, Chris. I'm super excited. Oh, this is amazing. I appreciate your time. And so I need to ask, I was first introduced to the concept of bone broth with you six to eight years ago.  You were in the first week of adding bone broth to your diet. And I was amazed because suffering from shoulder surgeries and the different joint pains I had, we went through college volleyball together and shoulder surgeries together. And you were doing something to help heal your joint pain and your issues from the inside out. Tell me, tell us all about that, please. The when, yeah, I mean, when we were at Yukon, I was a vegetarian.  And, you know, I had always, my issue has always been the process and the treatment and so on and so forth. But as I began going to school for sustainable nutrition and to learn about herbalism and just, you know, how the body works essentially, in conjunction with discovering that I've been diagnosed with hypermobility issues. So there's a whole lot of, you know, dislocations, hence all the surgeries. And because of that, you know, animal protein is the only protein that can build tissue in the body. So it would make sense that I would need to support myself in that department, which is why I began the bone broth. And you're right, it was about six years ago and I was pregnant with my son. And I really felt, I felt a lot better, you know, I just felt a lot more or a lot less brittle, I guess, would be the best way to describe it. And the joint pain, the joint pain I've been taking Ibuprofen for, I don't even know how long, constantly, every day. And I no longer needed that. So I have had that in itself was just one of the most amazing benefits of drinking broth on a daily basis. Yeah, so that's kind of what I want to know. I've been sharing your story for years with a lot of my patients who are complaining about different ailments. And myself, I have done plenty of bone broth and I add it into my diet regularly. And I'm aware of the benefits, but I explain it to a lot of my patients who are suffering, like IBS issues related to stress, and they've had every single kind of test done for all kinds of diseases, and they all come up negative, but they've got pain everywhere, and there's no injury. They've got GI issues, and there's no problem that they're finding. And I am just explaining like, well, you know, there's different things we can do about our diet to really help us from the inside out. And I want to know, like you mentioned how bone broth and the meat bones have the collagen that helps us and the tissue from that that helps us. How can we add that into our diet? Do we need to just have for a period of time, or can we supplement our diet with that to help us with different ailments or maladies? Yeah, there's absolutely, there's huge benefits just from incorporating that into a daily habit. When it comes to the maladies that you're describing and the body function in general, after I began drinking broth, you know, like we talked about, you know, six or so years ago, I also, after my son was born, he had a number of allergies. He was covered in eczema, and I was really concerned for his health.  And I became really concerned about what he could eat and what he couldn't eat. And I read up on how to heal your gut lining so that you have less of a reactive system. And I came across what's called the GAPS program, and it's a gut healing protocol. And essentially, it's the most basic description is it's basically a lot of boiled meat and vegetables and fermented foods. So the reason behind that is because what you're doing when you're boiling the meat and you're boiling the vegetables into the warm water, a little bit of acid to help break down the minerals and the nutrients, it makes it, it's a much more bioavailable form to the body. It's there's no inflammation and how it's absorbed in the intestines. And it really overall supports healing within your gut, within the entire system. And I had, I did that with him. I think it was around 2018 that we began the protocol, we did it for almost two years. And I have not had, I've had migraines my entire life, I haven't had a single one since then. And like I said, I've continued the broth because of the joint pain, in order to help with that. So IBS, you know, if that's something that you're diagnosed with, you absolutely should consult the doctor, because the piece between bone broth and meat stock is bone broth is a lot higher in histamine.  So it's important to discuss the the tolerance level that you have with your doctor, you might have to try it and see. I mean, basically the difference in what you're doing at home is, you know, you're making your stock, it's the same, most of the same ingredients, maybe you'll eliminate the bone piece, and just have more meat, you just don't cook it as long. So if it's, and I actually prefer on a flavor level, I prefer it less, like just to 12 hours simmer instead of like 72, some people go three days with it, cooking. So the longer it cooks, the higher the histamine amount. And you have to gauge whether or not that that's going to work for your body. That's interesting. So I didn't know that. So the difference between meat stock and the longer cooked bone broth is getting more out of the bone that's more histamines. Is that right? Yeah, there's a further extraction the longer you do it, for sure. And it matters what your goal is. So, you know, in the winter, I find that that I do prefer the deeper flavored bone broth. I'll add herbs for different nutrients, astragalus root helps with the immune system. If I feel like I'm getting a little, you know, a bit of a chill, I'll add some pepper or add some ginger. Excuse me. I always add seaweed, it's always got such great nutrients that adds iodine to the soup. So, and you know, the best part about making a stock essentially or a broth is the very is the piece that it, you know, it could, it's kind of whatever you have in the kitchen. If you have leftover celery and carrots and the standard recipe that you know you might find in a recipe book and that's great. But otherwise, if all you have is like a bone and a tomato and some herbs, that's fine too.  It's, it's, it's tasty and it's warming and it's very soothing. So, I've learned so much about last paragraph. I'm not even sure what to ask. I want to ask about, okay, two things. I'm going to stay on both now so I don't forget. Number one, I want to know like if you need just the meat stock because you have like inflammatory systems, I tend to use the, the, what do you call it, the Instapot, the three in one cooker. And I pressure it and it doesn't really take like 12 hours. It takes like an hour. I'm not sure. Am I getting meat stock or bone broth with that? No, that's, that's, it's, you can get bone broth if you do it longer like that. It will work just as effectively. I just don't happen. I have the big stockpile with the old school, you know, methods on the stove.   But um, yeah, the Instapot from what I understand makes things a lot easier, makes it a lot easier to make this a habit. Okay, all right, that's good. And then the second thing that I want to know, and I know everybody else is probably wants to hear more of what you just said about herbs and adding some herbs to the soup for different reasons. You mentioned some, something or other for immune and I don't, straggles root or something like that. Yeah, right? Yeah, yeah, you got it right. Um, yeah, there's different, you know, I tend to use the herbs that I grow, just because it's local and it's sustainable and I have a, I have a relationship with it, essentially. But you know, if there's mushrooms, that's another one you can put in there to add to your broth, as far as adding nutrients and vitamins. And again, it's the best way for your body to absorb the food is in a warm wet liquid. So yeah, it's so true.  Is that right? Like when I felt ill, I've made my homemade chicken soup, I feel better. And I think psychologically, I feel better. It's like getting a nice hug from grandma or mom, you know, it reminds you of home. But at the same time, I feel dramatically better after I have chicken soup, if I'm feeling under the weather. So the benefit of broth, right? So now I want to know, because people are watching this, they're like, Oh my gosh, this sounds amazing. I want to feel better. I can maybe get rid of joint pain, headaches, like all these different potential benefits. You know, there's meat stock and bone broth. And if I have inflammatory things, maybe I shouldn't have the bone broth, but I can have the meat stock. So how do you start? Is it best consuming it like, let's say I'm having breakfast, lunch and dinner, and I want to add bone broth and even for vanity's sake, for face and nails and hair or what do you do?  Is there any rules like that? There's no real rules. I happen to enjoy, I just enjoy it in a mug, you know, and drink it. For my kids, getting them to eat that, it's a little harder. I will frequently just, if I'm making rice or quinoa, that's my liquid. That's what I'll use for my liquid. Great idea. I make noodles. I'll use that as the liquid as well. At least it's getting incorporated a little bit. You know, they're going to fight back on drinking the broth part.  So if I'm going to saute vegetables or even if I'm making mac and cheese for the kids, I'll throw that, you know, instead of butter because you can add butter sometimes, you know, throw a tablespoon of that in there. So it's probably just a little, it's the little things like that that make me feel better as a mom. Yeah, they're getting a little bit in there, you know. No, I think it's great. I think it's great. I know that this is a whole different topic, but I know that I think when we grew up, there was very, very few kids that I knew that had allergies to really anything. I think I knew a bee sting allergy kid, but I never, nobody had shellfish allergies or egg allergies or peanut butter allergies, although I knew about them because teachers would ask, say we didn't share food, but like nobody had a peanut butter allergy that I knew. And I now, I now see, I feel like every kid that I know is allergic to something.  And this has really helped that like introducing this, I guess, nutrient rich or collagen rich to our bodies. Do you know why it works? Well, like I said, anything that's going, you know, if you consider like your body's like essentially a compost system of the food that you eat, you know, it anything that's warm and liquid, it's going to be very agreeable provided it's the right food. So again, going back to the histamine intolerance for someone that, you know, would need less histamine, you'd probably eliminate the onions and the garlic, you might have to, you know, kind of make those adjustments. But as you're, you know, just anyone that's trying to give it a whirl, go ahead and make them and drink a cup a day or add it to your diet somehow, and see how your body behaves and see how you feel. Yeah, that's great. That's true. It does go back to that the histamine and all that. So all right, I want to make bone broth. I actually, I actually a couple times have gotten a rotisserie chicken and eaten some of the meat off and then put the carcass in. So I cheated a little bit, but it was no, no, no, no. That's perfect. Okay, thank you. I'm glad I was thinking in my busy situation, I wanted to get the benefits and to me that fed me and then also enabled me to make this delicious. I mean, essentially, you're budgeting your time and that's that's exactly how it works. And if that's how you can, if that's what's going to make the habit happen for you, then absolutely do it. And also consider to the nice part about incorporating broth is you can get the lesser, excuse me, I'm shivering my office is freezing. You can get the lesser palatable cuts of meat and use those you can get the less, you know, especially if you're in an area like I am, I have farms around at processing time, I can get bones for a dollar a pound. So if you're budgeting for your groceries, you can get the most nutrients for your buck essentially, by using the bones and using those less, you know, palatable cuts of meat and making your your stock or your broth from there. Okay. Yeah, so like what you're describing is you're saving time and then there's also ways to save money. Okay, so I want to know how to save money too. And also I was actually, I've kind of done a little research here and why to try to find out like a butcher shop or something. But I found a place that I can go that is like a kind of a butcher shop, a meat shop. If I was going to go to the counter and say, I would like to get some bones to make bone broth. And I don't care if it's beef or pork or chicken or fish. Yes, all of it is a request. Okay, so that's a request you can make. And then they just give you whatever and you just take it and rinse it off or. And you know, it sounds really gross, but if chicken feet are super high in the gelatin, so that's like, it looks really gnarly in your pot when you're cooking, but you know, I did hear about that.  But I haven't been able to do it yet. Yeah, if you mix up your bones, that's a nice way to add different nutrients as well. If there's a little bit of meat on them, you can like the roasted chicken you purchased, you can roast them first and then put it in it adds more flavor that way when it caramelizes the meat that's left on the bones. Yeah, if you look, you'll find bones somewhere. I mean, it's been Hawaii, there's got to be fish all over the place. So there is. Yeah, there's fish, there's, there's, there's everything. So that's good. So then I'm going to throw it in the pot. You're going to cook yours for 12 hours or less for me stocking 12 hours or more if you're going bone broth on your stove top. Yeah. Okay. And in my Insta pot, I just hit pressure cook. And I think it does it in like half an hour, but it takes 20 minutes.  You can do that. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. That's right. And then if I add like if I'm just want to get regular stuff and I don't have any inflammation that I know about, that's really insane. I could add like salt, pepper, ginger, onion, well, like everything but the kitchen sink, right? Throw the salad. Yeah, that's my favorite way to cook. If you need, if I know that there's people out there that prefer a recipe and measurements and don't cook like pinch of this kind of thing. A great reference is Sally Fallon's nourishing traditions. That's a really good reference. If anyone is looking and she covers everything she's got beef and venison and fish and chicken and lamb all different recipes for stock. What is it? Sally what? Sally Fallon. Oh, that sounds great. Okay. All right. Thanks for that. Wow. There's so much to ask. And then you have a website too is your website some place that people can go to get in touch with you or just check out what you're doing? Yeah, absolutely. There's a website and a Facebook page. And it's essentially, what's interesting, how this actually even began really is not only my personal experiences with healing through foods. Being in childcare, I've had a childcare center for 23 years now. And over the years, I have found more and more families are dealing with reactions and children and they can't figure out why, you know, they're trying a new soap or they're going to try to eliminate dairy or they're going to try all these different things because it really is trial and error. And it's really hard to navigate sometimes and that's how Kailin Crow came about was to kind of be a location to go for questions. And if I can't help with answers by no people that can. So it's basically just a consulting piece that's kind of grown from the day care. This is awesome. So I got to ask about the day care now and bone broth is or broth period. Is there any kind of like anything that you're doing or do you have little, I know you do everything because you're amazing, but like, is there any little like education things that you do with parents or kids or cooking stuff or I have in the past obviously COVID's kind of gotten in the way of some of those events. But we do look forward to incorporating those again. I've done my favorite are like the little the quick make and takes, you know, like a sauerkraut class or fermented carrots or fermented ketchup. A lot of the as a mom, I think a lot of the healthier habits that I have fallen into are the ones that are making and forget it. You know, you just did five minutes and you do it and then you leave it alone and a week later you do something else and it's done. You know, now you have a condiment that's in your fridge that you can reach for the the ketchup anytime or however, you know, and whatever you can. I don't really like to spend a lot of time and stuff even like the broth. I don't even cut the vegetables half the time, like I just throw them in whole. Yeah. So you don't even need, you know, don't even need a knife really. But everybody hearing this is loving this right now. This is like yeah. There's, you know, we've got stuff to do and kids to chase work to do in in order to make these changes in a sustainable way. They have to be really easy. So yeah, you nailed it on the head. So gosh, what did you say that gave me a good question? Oh, fermented stuff. So I love the idea of fermented stuff apparently like here in Kauai a lot of people eat kimchi, but sauerkraut is something as Polish, right? Like in German, like you love the sauerkraut and you mentioned fermented carrots and fermented ketchup, like some of the benefits. Tell us all about fermented stuff because I remember with the gaps program you need to have the fermented stuff because you're basically eating chicken bone broth and you want to keep everything kind of moving. There's really, you're not really eating any insoluble fiber to help your system be that compost that it needs to be. So what about fermented stuff? Tell me why we need that.  And if there's too many bad guys, well, then you don't feel good. You know, so what basically this is doing fermented foods will feed those good guys.  I do like carrot sticks because that's an easy one because then all they have to especially for kids is they just pull them out of the jar and dip them in ranch and they're eating them, you know, like it's like I said, it's I really go for the easy, easy incorporations, ketchup, obviously ketchup on everything. Oh my gosh, I never even heard of fermented ketchup. And most people like ketchup. It's just one of those things that we it's like sweet, sweet tomatoes. Well, how do you make what is it what's required to make a fermented let's say, carrots, you chop it up, right? Like, yeah, in my case, it's really, it's the brain that you're making. So for example, when you're making sauerkraut, you can macerate the cabbage to a point where it creates its own liquid and all you have to do is add salt. And, you know, if you have in this again, in the spirit of making this sustainable, my kids can make it because it's just this giant bowl of chopped up cabbage, they help with the chopping it, you know, four or five years old, they get in their elbow deep and they're squishing it and they're you know, mushing it up and they they can enjoy the process which is going to make them a lot more likely to try it. Whereas for like the carrot sticks, essentially what you're doing for that is creating cutting your carrots in a way that you know that your kids will snack on them, and you're creating a brine and adding it there and you leave it out on the counter for a week or so. So it allows the fermentation process to begin that way, but it does need you do need to provide the liquid for that. Okay, so and then for fermented ketchup, it's basically you're draining the way from your yogurt and adding it to a recipe where um you have you know tomato paste and garlic and yeah a little bit of vinegar I think I'm trying to remember what else is in there um and you can I've added chipotle powder to it so that actually kind of gives it a little more of a grown-up flavor which is nice so yeah. This is so great. I'll make sure everything's on the Kalenkraut website and so people please do I'm gonna be I'm gonna be all over this weekend well I love I love the part two like you get your kids involved in the kitchen I mean what kid doesn't like to play in the kitchen and make a mess and throw stuff around but like you're not you're making food that you're gonna eat and you're enjoying the process and I think so many of the things like as adults that we have linked up that are habits today are because we enjoy them and I think if kids are in the kitchen doing this stuff and they're making it you're just getting the fun factor as a kid you don't care if it's healthy for you when you're a kid you just want it to be fun you want to hang out with your mom and dad and you're doing projects and staying busy but I like that it links up like me as an adult thinking back to cooking or gardening or things with your mom that maybe you didn't like doing back then you love now because you link it up to this this positive thing that brings you so much joy which helps us live a long life right. That is a huge piece of the healing absolutely joy having helping with the healing from the inside out yeah this is great so all right we have just a few minutes left and I always want to I don't even know if I want to ask you anything in particular but is there anything else you want to say about of broth and benefits and helping kids and helping adults and helping us all heal like you said from the inside I really my main thing is creating confidence in the kitchen so don't be afraid to try stuff and don't be afraid to mess it up and try again you know which is totally fine just keep trying until you get it right until you get a pattern that works for you. That is great I know a lot of people are doing a food prep these days right on their Sundays they're making all this food and packaging it up for their week so they have things for the kids they have things for themselves and then their week goes more smoothly with the breakfasts the lunches and you're on your way out the door and I know that a lot of people that are watching this are now going to be either figuring out how to get their stock pot on their stove I don't have a stove I have a small apartment so I have a electric skillet I've got all kinds of pots I have huge pots to put on the other instant pot that instant pot's gonna do it for you this pot's great and you know what it is it is nice because I feel like when I when I cook it fast in there the flavor is amazing and I think the key for everybody watching who's using an instant pot is don't vent it yourself so it's gonna yeah don't do it I've read that as well I'm gonna have to go try the instant pot no I know I got it as a gift from one of my patients that wanted me to be able to afford to stay in Hawaii they just said here we have an extra one take this instant pot and I've made so many things in the instant pot including my bone broth and I vented it once myself because I wanted to start cooling it and it doesn't get everything out of what you need it's the self venting which just leave it in there for a couple hours it'll vent itself even though it stopped cooking and then you're ready to enjoy it it's beautiful I've done what you done I put it in a cup and it tastes delicious so terrific oh my gosh well thank you so much Michelle this is really nice thanks for having me Chris this was great and I hope everybody gets to enjoy feeling better from the inside out thanks for watching and as always life is better when you listen to your physical therapist hello hi everyone thank you so much for watching think tech hawaii if you like what we do please like us and click the subscribe button on youtube and the follow button on vimeo you can also follow us on facebook instagram twitter and linked in and donate to us at think tech hawaii dot com mahalo