It's a marathon program this particular afternoon, of course it's a chilly Saturday afternoon, we don't have sporting activities happening in various parts of the world, but we can continue talking about the same with this gentleman, very passionate about football friend opener, VP. Wasana, how are you? Alright, Tiraz, it's been a minute. It has, man, I've even forgotten what it takes to be on television, so bear with me. Am I allowed to sneeze on air? We are observing one meter distance. At least yes, of course. Alright, let's speak about the headlines as far as matters international football. Sest fabrigas saying that, you know, he's defa, he's 130,000 weeks wages for the sake of his struggling club, Monaco. You know, the financial predicaments have hit several entities, not just due to corona outbreak, but I think this has been the problem with Monaco since Thierry Andrew was there, he was sacked. That's a good move, good guest your friend. I think it's a good gesture and remember it's a personal decision as we can put it, and from one's perspective, Fain is the one who is there and he knows the position of the club currently financially, but I don't think it's that much because trust me, what have these clubs been making when we didn't have COVID-19? Of course, they have lost a lot of cash through whatever losing the TV rights right now, you know, no matches being broadcasted and all that, but still it's a decision that comes from one point of view that you know right now. We have these difficulties financially with our club and then I can forego these weeks. Let's say wages and quotions, quotions in the club from the crisis that is ongoing. Anyway, it's a good gesture generally for me. It's a good gesture.  He doesn't need to emulate on them and do the same.  Well, he did actually say that African football is mad in a lot of corruption and that's what has made him social distance himself from African football. That's a valid point. We all know and I think those are some of the things you are discussing online with your guests today, Saif Mutie and Bonfa Sosano who are running for the FKF presidency. So that's a fact of our football and other aspects of our lives here in Africa and the world over, not just Africa, but very much so here, very pronounced. So he has a valid point there. Remember in the 2008 when they were going for the African Cup of Nations, Togo after they qualified or was it 2006 and the macho officials, rather the football association officials from Togo flew themselves to South Africa where the tournament was being held. Or was it 2010, those years have flown, gosh. And the footballers themselves were driven through Kabinda in Angola which is a red ball held area. And you take the best ambassadors of your biggest brand which is football that time for Togo through such an area by bus to get to the venue of the tournament itself. You guys fly yourselves and probably your mistresses first class by air. You go like you're the stars of the tournament and guess what happened? These guys found themselves in the middle of gunfire and they lost their goalkeeper. The rest of them had to sort of dive on the floor of the bus. What kind of impunity is that? They would have died all of them from that particular incident. So when he speaks about it, he's speaking from the bottom of his heart. And I remember the World Cup of 2006, Togo qualified for that World Cup. And it was such a shame at the World Cup when it got to Togo's turn to play and the big debate was whether they would turn up because they had not been paid their monies that were due to them. It was very, very embarrassing.  So when he talks about corruption, he's right. Secondly, he's spoken about the African Cup of Nations being given to Africa, the Africa Cup, BBC Africa Football of the Year being awarded. The Confederation of African Football Awards. He says that they are meant for African players featuring in African leagues. There is no need to give African footballer of the Year award to Sadio Manu. We are playing in the UPL. I don't know. Would you read from the same script with him? Yes, of course. That maybe Denis Onyango, who is the goalkeeper in South African League, is supposed to be given the top acoled and not a pure America, bumaya? No, I don't think so because, truly, this guy is, for example, Sadio Manu who was awarded that award last time. It's through personal, you know, let's say, BDM to commit. Yes, exactly. Because they're not there by mistake. It's their, you know, commitment and hard work that they are there. But as he's saying that, you know, there is some corruption. For example, in these African football bodies, you know, that has made him maybe to hold back from maybe giving back to the society in Africa. That point of view, I really don't think it's voice from him because you cannot hold back what you can give back to the society because of what other people have done.  You cannot sell us that, you know, because of the corruption in African football, you cannot be able to do that. I think that's... No, that's okay. That's perfectly okay. Exactly. That's what I agree with. My interpretation of what he said is that why he himself keeps away from African federation, football, management, politics and all that. And like Saif Mutia here who wants to gun for the Helm and Zipo, my interpretation of what Adebayo was saying is that he would rather not involve himself in management, management, administrative side of African football. That's what he's kept away from. Actually, that's what I can agree with. I can read from the same, exactly. That is what Adebayo was trying to seek for top seat in Ivory Coast, getting snubbed. He's can't get snubbed by, you know, form a field of layers. The likes of, you know... Zokora. Zokora. He's vice captain. He's vice captain. You know, sometimes when you look at this march as we are seeing, actually, when Adebayo says, now I get your point, when Adebayo says, you know, I don't want to get involved in these administrative issues in African football because we have a lot of corruption. Maybe this guy is the likes of DDS Zokora, you know, snubbing Drogba from his turn to give a chance at the leadership of Ivory Coast football association. You know, you feel to understand why.  So I would like to have the reasons why they are snubbing because someone was saying maybe it's lacking touch with the reality now that, you know, Drogba played prominently in overseas leagues in Europe, in France, at Chelsea in English Premier League. Maybe he lacked, you know, being close to the ground and that's why, you know, his candidacy was snubbed. Drogba left Ivory Coast at the age of five and went to France, joined his uncle to better his life and he's never quite lived in Ivory Coast ever since because he's got his children who are born outside of Ivory Coast, the land of his birth. So you can say in that regard there is a disconnect but at the same time he's done so much for the country. Ten years ago, about nine years or so, 2011, the country was almost burning. It took Drogba's voice to go back to Ivory Coast and tell the people, listen, let's negotiate instead of fighting. There's more at stake to lose if we fight and less at stake if we negotiate. That shows you he still has a huge influence in the country of his birth and he loves the country of his birth and he's very determined, maybe even more than some people who've never left the country there for the betterment of Ivory Coast and he's done a lot of other things in terms of development maybe charity, let's call it charity overall but then again, Africa, you need to connect with the people and the people especially when you're endeavoring for such a seat you want an endorsement from your peers. These were his peers who rejected him. I don't know why. I really cannot tell you why, all of them in total because those who abstained and abstinence is as good as a veto. You cannot help. You're simply saying I am totally against this in total. You have no preferred candidates. Yes, in this race. You're as good as those who are voting against Drogba or whoever else. Which is not an endorsement. Of course time is not on our side. Anytime from now we shall be expecting Cabinet Secretary for Health Hon. Mutai Kagwa addressing the nation of course during his daily briefings on the state of coronavirus pandemic which has hit the country and of course it will be getting laid on Y-25 and our Mother's Station KBC. So stay tuned, don't go away but we continue with the touchline, Katozo Fadili and the crew are humanists have been added to us so we can continue to stand guided in case of anything from the AFI house. So another headline is clubs in Europe especially in English Premier League committing that they want to end the season despite this pandemic and of course three gentlemen have always been in discussion I think that the influential players as far as English Premier League is concerned Jordan Henderson Mark Noble West Ham and I'm forgetting another one of course I will remember So I think that the determining factor as far as when would the English Premier League resume Is it possible in June? Okay for now I can't really say because it depends on the developments from whatever we are facing right now the pandemic really is affecting a lot of economies of this world and if in England we would see a decline in the number of infections we see a rise in the people you know have recovered from from COVID-19 then why not we can come back to football but remember when it's safe to do so we saw the other day one being ended and PSG were crowned the champions and I think England and France are not that far off once you just across exactly just across the channel but you can see France exactly from the white clips of course I don't see the need why we should force the EPL to be completed and we have seen our neighbours across ending saying that maybe all the footballing activities whether indoors or outdoors cannot be resumed until October why should you if the country is not safe try to force to complete the season I don't know whether it's because Liverpool is supposed to be in the league should the FA do the same way Kenyan did suspending the league indefinitely and determining the winners as per the standings and basing on that of course Liverpool will be the champion something that Man United fans won't don't want to hear objectively speaking what should happen objectively they should follow the letter of the law of England the standard practice of the FA if the law permits them to give Liverpool the premiership of this season fine well and good because in actual fact Liverpool deserve it no team was going to close that gap this is not stealing in any way it's not going through the back door it's not rigging of any standard this is just fair play really but remember we are talking about Liverpool what about the top four we have European football everything is determined as per the standings everything I think as per the standings but still now when you come to that and you mentioned that and I'm glad you did and I was coming to it now that has to fall on under what UFO says because UFO is the umbrella governing body of European football so whatever the decision the English football association make in that respect of what you just brought in then it has to fall under the statutes of UFO so England in the case of England four teams the first top four teams in the Premier League those are the ones that qualify to play in UFO in France is the top three it varies depending on the strength of your league so then of course that has to fall under UFO and then there is the issue and who gets promoted from the championship or will there be no promotion and it ends as it is now that one I would say that one there's no need to demote any team and there's no need to promote any team because really I mean that's what I would say what if the league has to resume but games being played during closed doves no problem I'm against remember I saw around eight rules that were brought forward to the prime minister to check out this is what we are planning if we resume the league then these are the guidelines that we are supposed to follow have you seen how many people have died in England have you seen how many people are infected that's why you see for example like Holland Netherlands they said this season is not an void this is what we need to sit down and talk about because remember the FA has its rules and I don't know when they were making those rules when they were coming with the certifications we would not expect that we had a pandemic so maybe they did not come forward with the rules if this happens for example if we have played 80% of the matches of the season if at that time it ends then we declare whoever at the top as the winner like Kenya where I saw president Nick Mwendwa saying was it 75% if 75% of the matches have already been then at that time you just declare the one who is at the top as the winner I don't know why Iceland fans are pushing for the league nothing to lose Kenya has not been that affected with the coronavirus if we were to go with the government figures but the league has been suspended in definitions but you can see we have suspended our league in definitions applaud those in charge of our league if they dare resume in England one person just one infection is all it takes and I'm telling you the reputation of English football goes down on the wire people will tell you resume but those are the same people who will be on your neck on social media everywhere that will be the end of so many careers really speaking and strictly speaking you've seen what's happened in Germany which is less affected than the England and the rest of the UK in as far as the coronavirus is concerned they went into training last month and after just quarantining themselves for about 14 days or so and then you can see what's happened with FC Cologne at a Bundesliga site three players and staff already have been have tested positive with the coronavirus into self quarantine just imagine they've been training and exercising all those social distance rules and everything a lot of these guys are young guys in their 20s and stuff so they have very young families very young life and very young children especially the children 2-3 year olds whose antibody system is at stake this thing is a change it's a virus it's not something you can contain internally it spreads, it's beyond they should not there in England just go back to them they should not there you know when Tairas Oyaki speaks and insists on the same maybe it's because of his stay in England to Newcastle the prime favourite to land after you know the takeover that happened at St. James Park I'm telling you look at Man City a few years back imagine that Man City would have made the steps that they have made but right now Newcastle have got a new owner the money bags from Saudi if they want to make Newcastle a Man City of this time they can because they can get the good coaches they can purchase the good players and a man like Pochettino is a young lad understands the EPL and if trust me if they get him I cannot see Newcastle falling anywhere below below position 10 in the EPL because if they get the good players as Man City did a few seasons ago they are gonna perform they get that chemistry of Pochettino remember what Pochettino has done with Tottenham of course they can come and cause problems and I'm for it because Newcastle has had a manager of such caliber Rafael Benitez has been in charge some time back he enabled them to get promoted back to Premier League from Skybeat Championship exactly because they have to go on market and acquire new high profile players who can help them compete yes definitely and we're talking of Arab money here oil money oil has gone down in value but obviously these guys had stacked up quite a bit and you can just tell with the kind of money they bought Newcastle United for we're talking of competing and I like the fact that you used that word because Newcastle United has the best fan base exactly in England you go to a Newcastle United game my friend you will feel like you're in heaven you'll admire them those fans they don't sit down and this is a Premier League game they don't sit down they came in probably started drinking the night before they were drinking the entire week they've come by train all the way from the northeast of England coming making noise singing and they'll sing throughout the game win or lose snow or whatever hello high water they will be there for their team that's the kind of team that Pochettino is being linked with it takes him back to South America he's from Argentina and that's the kind of the passion that he's used to in Argentina the kind of passion he relates with and if he goes to Newcastle United I can think of no better link I mean that's a much made in heaven I'm telling you with the right backing financially and obviously from the supporters Newcastle United will be taken back to the days of Sir Bobby Robson when they were ruling the rules in the UFHC but he needs proper backing because owners now can determine if they put in money or fail to put in money whether that team will end up making sense or not we've seen it with Arsenal we've seen it with Newcastle before it was sold to the Arabs Mike Ashley very wealthy I mean very well to do but very tight when it comes to Manu so Newcastle was always finding itself between Premier League and hand the champions and if they missed that cut of going down it was wooray for them I'm telling you serious players and there was these whispers rumors in the football corridors that they might be signing bell if things after this Covid-19 thing ends then they have the money right now to sign bell and he would be interested actually to come back to England you get 3-4 players of good quality then you can now imagine I can try and finish first maybe top 10 can be a target for him for the first season and then from there once that reinvesting in the team continues trust me we are going to see a man sitting in Newcastle whether he'll go with his technical bench because usually a manager or a coach if you prefer to call him so likes to go with the guys he's used to actually they'll give him that he trust exactly they'll give him that position he's a likelihood that Ari Ken has joined Newcastle very possible and the technical bench and also but now there's a controversy I controversy I would like I love during this coronavirus now there's a controversy but I usually have that problem you need to come I must have been loo in my previous life there's a controversy about whether this sale of Newcastle united has followed due process whether it's due process so let's not jump the gun here let's wait and see whether that bridge will be crossed and then we can start looking for it to happy days we have to end this transfer rumas upe makano after his contract extension at Leipzig and we've also had the stories of Jadon Sancho Borussia Dortmund Manu is English international being linked to united I don't know what you make of all this transfer gossip now that we coronavirus is with us and no football so people are talking you should go to united I think because Chelsea are also interested he's united also because he has played outside of the country and what that does to a player when he goes back to England is he introduces a different cultural aspect of how the game should be played usually homegrown players in England stick to the way they've been schooled football, the English football and philosophy of football they don't bring something new to the table look what happened to David Beck when he went and played for Real Madrid I went and watched him now play for England in Wembley and he was a class above the rest of the English squad Gerard Lampard who Beckham was playing in a different league of his own and they couldn't measure up to him and this is something I saw with my naked eye so I'm really for Jadon Sancho going back home to England I don't think so you know why we are going to put a lot of pressure on this young guy what I would expect Jadon Sancho to do is just continue gaining the experience you're getting right now at Dortmund maybe once he's around let's say 25 then he can come back but for now just tell me was the young man who joined a few seconds the young man who united and then was crap Pauline supports what he said wow we have a fantastic show of course it's supposed to be from 1 to 3 but due to public outcry then this guy can talk like Musaikagu and we appreciate of course we will be on the show on Saturday again 1 to 3 touch line but we are keeping tabs waiting for press briefing from Kote House by Cabinet Secretary for Health Mutai Kagu keep it sport and always keep it safe thank you for tuning in God bless


Okay. One, two. Okay. Thank you very much for coming. I know it's the end of the day already, so I'll try to get through this quickly so you can get yourself a drink and start starting to go to the pub crawling. Socializing. But I would like to get through this quickly, as I said, and it's great to have full room. Hopefully these full attendants reflect the interest of the topic. So today's presenter is myself, Irat Karadinov. I'm an open stack engineer at Klarops. Klarops is a delivery partner of Mirantis in Canada. Today with me I have Alexey Kaladyazny. He's a senior deployment engineer at Mirantis and Ivan Kaladyazny, he's a sender developer at Mirantis as well. Both guys came from Ukraine and we have with us Christian Yubner. He's a senior system architect at Mirantis. So before going to agenda, I would like to ask you a few questions. Is anybody here running the open stack in production already and some critical workloads? All right. Nice. Look at so many hands. So are you guys any of you still running on Grizzly or Icehouse or Juno, like all the release of open stack? Raise your hands. It's okay. Cool. So the rest of the people I guess running their clouds on Kilo and Liberty, right? So yeah. But here we are on Summit and we have a new release of open stack ready. So question to you guys. How many of you are considering to upgrade to the latest release? Okay. There's one, two, three. Okay. I guess everybody wants, right? But as you probably know, currently the open stack upgrade is work in progress from the community. Most of the vendors actually already have implemented upgrades, but they limited to the one or two smaller releases, basically, so you cannot really go back to the old release of open stack cloud.  It's basically like a small reference architecture that supported for the upgrade. So it wouldn't be great if you upgrade your old cloud somehow and get to the latest version. So the alternative way I want to discuss today is migration. Basically, in migration you have two clouds side by side. So you're basically migrating your workloads from one cloud to another. So for this summit, we actually came with two presentations. One of them is going to be tomorrow. We'll just talk about why and how to assess and migrate cloud application between open stack clouds. But today's presentation would be only kind of focusing on the storage migration between clouds. So the agenda is basically we're going to have quick introduction of storage migration between clouds and open stack and between different backends. And we're actually going to deep dive how we implemented those different methods of migration between different backends. So we start with the granular migration and we will go to the all-in-one kind of migration. And finally, I will finish with the native Cinder APIs, which allows to do the volume migration between backends only, because native Cinder APIs, they cannot do the migration between clouds. So I'll pass the mic to Alexei and he'll continue his part. Hello, everyone. My name is Alexei Kolodyozhniy. And I will tell you a bit more about the introduction. I will tell you about what is migration and I will name some main approaches on how to migrate the data. So what is actually migration? Migration is a transferring of some kind of data from source to destination with appropriate adoption of this data. And the actual data in the cloud, we can divide in two groups. It can be the configuration part, which includes user data, user information, tenants, networks, security groups and so on. And the actual data. And in this presentation, we will talk about this actual data, which actually includes ephemeral, images, shares and volumes. Everything that can be stored on the storage backend. And I want to note that migration can be done inside the cloud, between the cloud and between the backends. And we will talk about this in our presentation. So why are we migrating? There could be a lot of different ways that brings us to the idea of migration. And first of all, it can become because the cloud upgrades. Unfortunately, in place upgrades is currently not available. And the alternative for the in place upgrade can be creating a parallel control plane and migrating the workloads from source to destination cloud. And disaster recovery, when it comes to something went wrong and you have to migrate back from some disaster storage, your workloads back to operating cloud. And instance migration, when you have to migrate some instances and volumes between tenants, users or clouds. And actually the benefits, what migration gives to us is the no vendor lock-in because you can migrate between different storage backends. And actually the flexibility, which is very important in business. So the main expectations that we give to migration is minimal downtime. So we have to make the downtime nearly to the zero downtime. Data consistency, we have to look after our data and not left something behind. Relability, we have to have plan B and magic because actually migration is not the easy thing and there are a lot of business logic and covered under the hood. And actually the difficulties, the main difficulty may become from the network because it's maybe the main bottleneck for the migration. Also that data is currently in use and we have to deal with it when the users should not notice that we're working and migrating their data. And maybe last but not least, that application which customers want to migrate are not usually ready for clouds. And we have to deal with legacy applications. So let's get closer to the approaches. And the first approach I want to describe is low level migration. This is a part of the group of approaches which is named granular migration when we are working with each volume. And the main idea is when you have the volume, it's presented like the block device or self-artbd device. You're mounting this device somewhere and on the destination site you're creating the similar volume with the same size and also mounting the block device on the destination site and then you are making a transferring of the data using some tool like DD. The pluses of this approach is that it's quite simple and you can automate it easily and also it gives exact copy of the volume. But also it has some cons like that you have to copy, hold the block device because you are not dealing with the files and you don't know how much size is actually used. So you, for example, if the volume takes two terabytes, you have to copy, hold two terabytes. And also this approach is very slow so you cannot apply it for all volumes because it will take ages. So the next approach is a bit more high level. In this approach we work with file system and, for example, imagine that you have some volume and you already have some file system on this volume. You can mount this file system somewhere, for example, on some node of the cloud or you can create some operational VM and access this volume from this operational VM. The same thing you're doing on the destination cloud, you're creating the volume with the same size, you're creating the file system and you're mounting it and then you're making a copy of the data from between these mount points. Using RCNK-SCP doesn't matter. The plus of this approach is that you can copy only user data. So you're dealing with files and, for example, if this two terabytes volume and only 20 gigabytes is used, you're copying only this actual data. And the cons is that it's quite hard to automate because you are not sure and you have to predict what file system will be located in this volume. The next approach is the backend replication. This is the part of the group of approaches which can be named like one-shot migration. And the main idea is that you have some backend attached to the cloud and you can attach the similar backend on the destination site and make a replication of the data between the storage backends using native replication. The process is that you can transfer all volume in one set, but also this is a cons because you cannot make a granularity and you cannot migrate, for example, only volumes for this particular user or particular tenant. You have to migrate everything in one set. Also, it brings a vendor lock-in because you can replicate only between the same storage types, and it costs us additionally because you have to pay for additional hardware on the destination site and maybe additional license fee. And the last but not the least approach is the backend re-usage. In this case, you will use the same backend on the source and destination. You will access it simultaneously from both sides. So it gives us pluses like, first of all, you don't need to transfer data. You will not lose time on it. You don't have to pay for additional hardware and for additional licenses. You're just reusing the storage. And actually the cons, they can appear only because of some particular realization of this approach. In more details, all of this approach will be described in further. And I would like to give the microphone back to Irat and he will tell you more about the granular migration. Alright, thanks, Alexei. I'll try to make the ball rolling. So basically, Alexei covered all the nuts and bolts of the migration between clouds. So the approaches that Alexei covered have been implemented in the migration tooling that actually Miranda's been using for several years already and offering to customers who wants to basically upgrade their clouds. So and definitely those migrations been used where the upgrade was not feasible. So creation of this automation tooling involved a lot of magic. So today we want to share with you how this magic been done basically. As you know, OpenStack has many backends. I think 70 plus backends now. So it's a great thing for having, of course, but when it goes to migration, it's actually kind of a hard pain for us because you need to consider, you might have any different backends to migrate. So when we're building our migration tooling, we basically had to think about how to make this process more general, so we can reapply it to another backends. So actually, for this presentation, we prepared the ISCSI fiber channel NFS and self type of migration. So I will start with NFS type backends. NFS type backends basically the the simplest to migrate because basically you have your volume presented on the file system basically as a file. So we basically need to migrate the sender metadata and then transfer the file from source to destination. Before going to explain, I'll just quickly remind how NFS type backends work in example of creation sender volume. So we have our controller node and NetApp NFS server, which is basically they communicated through the NetApp Direct7 mode driver. We have NetApp here because we just recently used it for our migration, so it's still fresh in my mind. And basically, when you create a volume, the volume will be created in the NFS share. And if you want to attach this volume to your VM node, basically the file system will be mounted on the compute. And then that's how it's going to work. So important configuration would be to have NFS mount point base and you can also have several shares attached or several NetApp servers attached to the same controller and the shares config on the shares.com file. So if everything configured correctly, you will see on your controller node that in our case two file system attached and the shares are MNT sender volumes. So when you create your volumes, you basically in our cases test and test and with the sizes, you would actually see those volumes created on the MNT sender volumes. So we basically need to transfer this metadata and transfer the volume to the destination. So here we have two clouds, controller node, which is running on Grizzly and here the Mitaka, the latest release. So as you know, sender APIs cannot create volumes on a different cloud. So we had to use the migration tool in between. Here it's deployed on the controller node. So the first step of migration would be actually to migrate the users and tenants. So they would be available on destination. And the sender volume migration start with the migration of quotas. If you want to migrate them, this is optional. And then you would find this volume on a source cloud, create exactly same volume on the destination with the sender API call with this basically the volume would be with the same name and with the same size. And then basically you just need to transfer the file from source to destination. So we just had to automate this process in order to make this for transferring many volumes. But it's very slow. So the way to make it faster a little bit, we basically need parallel migration and we used more advanced transfer protocols. So we found a protocol called BBCP, which uses bandwidth more efficiently than SCP or RCN commands. So I hope this is clear. It's very simple. So things are rolling now. Now we're moving to the block level type I can. So here we have Iskasi NFC channel. This is more complex to automate and to perform migration because the volume is a block device. So you need to find the way how to mount this block device on the controller. So again, we just recently worked with the VMAX driver. So I have some fresh in mind and basically I want to show how just basically create a volume on the on open stack. And from there we can basically show how to do the migration itself. So we have a controller node and the VMAX and the communication between controller and not goes through the SMS solution enabler. This is kind of a server in between which has installed APIs which can talk to the VMAX. So when you create a, send a create volume command, it will use WMAX WM API and create VMAX volume and it will land on the default storage group. This is like specifically for the VMAX driver. It can be actually configured in a fast pool as well. In our case it was fast pool so we put it there. So if you want to attach this volume to the destination cloud, you would basically need to create a, what always happens, the volume is kind of transferred from the default storage group to the instant storage group. And then you need to create a masking view. This is basically the way to create view for this block device so it can be seen on a compute node. And then you're running a RISCAN and then you basically can attach the volume to the compute node of ISCSI. So we need to work with this block device in order to do the migration. So now we can show how we did migration and this implementation actually a little bit more complex because we have, on the one side, we have NFS share type and on the destination we have VMAX ISCSI. So to do the migration the same way, we would need to check to find the volume we're migrating on the source cloud, create exactly the same volume on the destination cloud and it will go to this default storage group. So the next step would be actually the magic or how to call it. Basically we need to do the backwards engineering in order to understand how the VMAX driver works and instead of attaching to the compute node we attach the block device to the controller because our migration tool is landed there. So once that's done you can basically do block by block transfer from source cloud to destination. So I think it's clear but once things are automated it's working well but again this is very slow so it can be only used for the groups of volumes or like very critical workloads which you want to migrate. So finally the safe type accounts the migration work in exact same way, the idea is the same, the only difference here the commands you're using so instead of block by block transfer you would use rbd export div to rbd import div. With the rbd export you can actually transfer not whole volume but actually the exact data inside of the volume so the migration is faster here and if you want to transfer from block to safe you would use rbd import and if you do the from safe to block you would use rbd export. So now as I said these methods are very slow and my colleague Christian would actually cover how you can do the migration in one shot. Christian please. Okay thank you I heard. So in many cases when you do migration you do not want to actually see have your users tenants see that you're doing migration even. So the idea is instead of using OpenStack mechanism to use the built-in mechanisms in a host of storage backends one of them would be safe rbd implement incremental application netapp has their snap mirror, emc has mirror view and a number of other backends also have this built in. So the other approach that I would like to discuss is why do we migrate the data at all? The problem is if you have a three four five petabyte store and you're trying to push all those bits through the through the network you'll find that first of all you have impact on your performance because hard disks have only a relatively limited capability of doing multiple tasks. I mean a standard eight terabyte spinning hard disk gives you 100 IOPS if you're lucky and the other thing is that you normally you don't want to clog your network the production network with data that is being pushed through. So the approach that we are currently working on is why migrate the data at all take the back end attach it to the new cloud migrate the sender entries from here to there and then reuse or keep using the back end with the new cloud. So replication within backends of course you have performance impact in many cases it's possible to throttle that netapp has a mechanism to throttle that emc has a mechanism to throttle that but you will still notice the impact you will notice especially if you're running your storage array not only a 20 percent which everyone in the room probably knows that this is not something that normally happens you have a storage array that's running a 60 70 percent capacity and if you add on the capacity that's necessary to push all the data into the new cloud then you will have some performance impact. So the idea is to get the delta within a couple minutes you have to invest that mirror usually my experience is that you have maybe two minutes that you can get it down to there's no way to get it down faster further because the data comes in as fast as you can write it and during the final swing so basically you have to shut it down shut all your applications down and this is the one shot so you have to shut all down all your applications at the same time and then you have to migrate the sender database and start up the applications with the target storage. So obviously it's only applicable to whole data pools you cannot just do that with individual volumes and it may not work with all back ends and the downtime is going to be measured probably in 15 minutes 30 minutes an hour depending on how well it's automated. So here's a number of replication mechanisms as we are going to share this slide take I'm not going to read them out loud and I'll proceed to by migrate at all. So this is user sef as an example but it would work with most of the other storage back ends too. The idea is to have the back end attached to the old cloud you have the old cloud right here and then you do the attachment to the new cloud and we are currently working on a mechanism how to attack how to automate the attachment to the new cloud so you can actually just tell Miranda's open stack during deployment that you want the new cloud attached to the same sef back end and then the only thing that you actually have to migrate and it is minute by comparison is that's in the database so the other big advantage of this is that as your data stays in place you can do the migration volume by volume you can just say okay this volume is currently in my old in the database I take out the entry put it in the news in the database and fire up the application in the new database and you can do that over days or weeks it doesn't really matter because the data is not actually moving anywhere. So we are currently working on this on this plugin it is already functional and if somebody is interested in what it looks like I have a brown back talk tomorrow where I describe attachment of sef to multiple clouds not for the purpose of migration but for the purpose of actually running more than one cloud with one sef back and to take advantage of the economy of scale and the downside to that of course is the storage networks of the clouds must be connected if you are a major bank and you have your production system and you have a test system you probably do not want to share a sef cluster between them but in many cases this is an acceptable drawback especially if it's done for migration and you only use it like this for a few hours a few days at the maximum and obviously as this is still under development there are going to be a couple of bugs and we would much appreciate if somebody finds one if you actually tell us about it so and of course sef has its name from sephalopods so I put the sephalopod in there and the final point is you take advantage of the economy of scale if you do more than one cloud with one sef cluster that's a pretty important thing because a lot of people try to run three, four, five nodes sef clusters and find out that they are not quite as stable and not quite as fast as one would think so we have discussed all kinds of migration from cloud A to cloud B but we oftentimes also have the need to migrate within one cloud and Ivan is going to discuss with us how we can do with the native Cinder API we can do this migration within one cloud thank you Christian as you may know Cinder have several APIs to migrate your data from one storage to another Cinder use the same approaches like Alexei mentioned earlier so I mentioned such APIs like migrate, backup, replication and few words about retry because retry sometimes will call migration so let's start with migration Cinder can migrate volume in two different approaches the first approach is very fast and simple if backend storage and Cinder driver supports direct migration between two backends the data will be transferred directly this approach is unfortunately is supported only about 10 drivers in Cinder and Mitaka and usually you could migrate your data from the same type of backend for example from NetApp to NetApp from pure storage to pure storage and so on but this approach is very fast the second Cinder approach is also Cinder Migrations and it works for any supported Cinder backends in this kind of migration Cinder will attach source volume destination volume to Cinder node and copy all data using DD command this is could be very slow especially when you've got big volumes but it works for any backend for example you can migrate your volumes from Iskasi to fiber channel or Iskasi to NFS or CIF in Cinder we call this approach generic volume migration and Retive as I mentioned earlier Retive can cause volume migrations let's discuss what is volume time for Cinder point of view and why Retive will call migration so from Cinder point of view volume type is just a set of label set of volume definitions for example you can map volume type to specified backend and all your volumes will be created on SSD or HDD storages volume expect is more granular storage definitions it could be storage specific like QoS special when the defined properties for your storages so when you will call call Retive for example you've got HDD storage with tape A and SDD storage with type B and you have to call Cinder type command to move your data don't forget to mention migration policy on demand because if you want to migrate from in our case from HDD to SSD and without migration policy on demand Cinder won't migrate your data because Retive works very simple Cinder will check volume type contents if it is the same it's nothing to do except change database record if contents different Cinder will call the driver to make Retive and if driver doesn't have open implementation it will call Migration API so for this case migration policy options very important because now in metaka without this option you don't see why it doesn't migrate the other important note that migration is only admin operation of course you can set up permission in police JSO but it's not recommended to use it to make immigration so once you get emig... once you do emigrations the user doesn't know about it they don't have permission to view migration progress or they actually see available volumes I will not cover migration for in use volumes or live migration because Alex mentioned it in the previous session and you can see it in the video the next backups you can also use Cinder backup service to migrate data between storages it's very simple you have original volumes create backup and restore volume from Cinder point of view backup is full copy of volume so it's easy to migrate data but we've got several limitations in there it's about only six supported backup backend the newest one is Google cloud storage it was introduced in metaka but once you've got a backup in one of these storages you can restore volume to any supported back end in your cloud so you can get backups in Google or Swift or it's safe and restore it to LVM NFS NetApp, Salify and so on it could be extremely slow but usually if you've got a backup user don't... users don't work with it so it does not matter that's all about Cinder APIs you can ask any questions after speech Christian okay thank you very much Ivan this was very informative and I would like to wrap up and the application it was very good talk about application in the previous session so I almost forget about it thank you very much for your talk application is more about disaster recovery not about migration as mentioned before it we introduced application with 2.1 cheesecake and in Newton it will be tiramisu so if you need to disaster recovery application makes sense but it's not about migration data no it's all okay so I'll go through the summary very quick one thing to keep in mind is that replication is nothing to be trifled with you have valuable data you have you have performance requirements you have SLAs and if it's not well planned it's a recipe for disaster and obviously moving data is bound by physics a petabyte of data does not flow by itself it does it does not flow quickly by itself we have presented a set of methods granular migration all in one migration migration between backends and migration within one cloud and in many cases you will find that a combination is the best choice for instance you migrate with keeping a self cluster in place and you go at the end of the migration you will want to add a solid fire array or something and do just migrate volumes inside the cloud from the from the self backend to the solid fire so I thank you very much for staying with us even so the booth crawl has probably already begun and for all your application backends as sincerely which is access this is it's on one hand it's not easy but on the other hand doing it right and finding out everything has worked and your customers are happy that's the real reward and please feel free to ask questions we are going to be here a few more minutes and even though we are technically at time but I would appreciate being able to clarify a few things thank you guys enjoy the summit any question everybody wants to be a yes you guys know the pop crawl yes unfortunately you as a user or administrator you have not any option to view why it fails only of your logs in Newton there will be a new API seen the user facing messages migration within backends can be inside one cloud or it can be between clouds it's for instance you have one cloud that has a net up as a back end and one cloud that has let's say an emc as a backend and you want to migrate between those clouds either direction then it's migration between backends and between clouds but you could have for instance you could have tiers performance tiers in one cloud you have whatever spinning storage device and whatever SSD storage device and you find out that a certain instance is stopped in terms of IOPS so you take the instance or the volume that's attached to that instance and migrated inside the cloud between tiers so they are basically orthogonal to each other they can exist both together or both apart from each other the real touch option would still work you could for instance say okay i'm going from a hyperconverged to a non-hyperconverged setup i'm just leaving the OSDs on on my on the notes that they are currently on but migrate the compute services into a new cloud and so basically instead of migrating from one server to another i take the services off and put them onto a server that is separate from each other but a hyperconverged to hyperconverged obviously it does not work for obvious reasons but it does not work with reattached for with for obvious reasons in this case it would hyperconverged to hyperconverged you would go and use the backend replication method most probably so the question is basically he's asking if we can migrate and would it be matter if the volumes were transferring if they encrypted with that unpacked so Christian yes it does the answer is yes or no if you have if you do something like a snap mirror it doesn't matter whether the data is encrypted you get an exact identical image on the new net up that you had on the old net up if you go from volume from from backend to backend obviously you have to be to have the decryption key so you can actually get the data and shuttle it over to the other device right so it really depends on the methodology and in it for instance if you don't have the decryption key but we want to migrate from here to there a backend replication is oftentimes not the best thing to do all right guys thank you very much for your time enjoy the summit thank you


Wow, so many people. Many more than I would have expected, and many more who unfortunately couldn't be here, but we have streaming so that they can also take part in that. Thank you very much everyone for coming. It's really great to see you all here. I want to give a bit of an update on the state of project that is obviously a very limited view because Wikidata by now is so big that even me don't know everything that is happening. But still, I hope it is useful for you to hear that. First of all, five years. We're here for five years. Can I get a show of hands who has been here since the first year? Wow, a round of applause for you. What up? I should not do that. Why he is fixing that? Who of you is here for only a year or less? Yay. Thank you very much for coming. And yes, everyone else, if you're sitting next to a person who is only here for a year or less, introduce them, welcome them. So let's take a look. Why are we actually doing this? We're doing this to give more people more access to more knowledge. By the force also, because geeking out on structured data is kind of fun. I know. A lot has happened over the last year. I'm only going to give a short overview. By now, we have around 17,600 people who make at least one edit a month. That is really cool. And we're going to talk about this spike a bit more. About 8,000 people who make five or more edits a month, and the ones I love the most, people who make 100 edits or more, of which we have about 1,400. Who of you is among those? Very good. Very nice. We've also gotten a lot more content over the last year, especially over the last month or two. And by now, we have about 37.8 million items. That's a lot. A lot of concepts in the world we're describing. And we're doing this with about 3,900 properties. I was talking to someone the other day who was mind-boggled by this number. But about 2,000 of those are actually external identifiers linking us to other databases. So it's actually a bit less scary than that. What we can also see is that we've massively increased how much we know about every concept we have. So a year ago, we were at about five statements per item, meaning we knew about five things about everything we have in Wikidata. By now, we're at eight over just one year. And again, you can see most of that has happened over the past months or two. We've also made a lot of progress in terms of how multilingual is Wikidata. But through all the imports that have been happening lately, we're kind of losing out again. Unfortunately, the blue line is all the items that have only one label. That means there are a lot of concepts on Wikidata where we only know the name in one language. And that is kind of sad. And I think that's something we want to improve over the next year. Another thing is this. This is the number of links to other Wikimedia projects that our items have. And as you can see, the number of items that don't have a link to any other Wikimedia projects is increasing a lot as well. And I think that's actually a good thing because we are growing our scope and we're not only talking about the things that are covered by Wikipedia, but of course we are also covering all of these things, which is good. Over the past year, the usage on other Wikimedia projects of Wikidata's data has also increased. Here you can see some examples of info boxes that are either coming completely from Wikidata or almost completely on different language versions. Is anyone here who is coding on these info boxes? Nice. Thank you. So over the last year, the usage on Wikimedia projects increased by 60% of our data. And most usage we see on Chinese Wikipedia, Commons, Catalan Wikipedia, and Russian Wikipedia. We are also seeing a lot of queries to our Sparkle endpoint.  But what was even more impressive for me over the last year when I heard that is that by now, one third of all edits in Wikimedia projects is happening on Wikidata. One third. But what's even better, as you all know, Wikimedia projects were not growing anymore. We were not very good at recruiting new editors and retaining them and so on. So by now, apparently, this trend stopped. And we are back to about 2% growth of non-bought edits in the Wikimedia projects. And almost all of that is happening on Wikidata. So on the technical side, a lot has been happening. So for example, we started out with experimenting with support for Cytoid to make it easier to add references to data because having references is important. We have actually meaningful order of the statements in an item by now. So you can easily find what you're looking for. We made sharing on social networks prettier. So we've also done a lot of work on data quality. Or else, for example, the machine learning system that judges edits for how likely to be vandalism has been improved a lot for Wikidata. And it's been expanded to try to judge the quality of an item automatically so that in the future, you will be able to say, give me all items in a specific area and order them by quality so I can work on the worst items in those areas, for example, or give me the best items in that area so I can showcase them. And the biggest one, I think, is the constraint checks. So they have been around for a long time, but not a lot of people were actually able to use them because they were very hidden. And we started developing a gadget that now shows you constraints violation right next to the statement when you look at it so it's much easier to see for everyone where the issues are. If you haven't tried it, give it a try. There was also a lot of improvements around documentation, which has always been a bit of a sore spot around Wikidata. There is now a page that helps you, a portal that helps you around the query service, explains everything. There is a portal for how data donations should work and how people can contact the right Wiki projects, for example, what the right tools to use are, and so on. And then there's two that are in progress that it would be great if you join and help improve them, which is a page for Wikidata in the Wikimedia projects, which started out as a page that addresses some of the fears and issues that people in other Wikimedia projects raise again and again so that we can address them and have good answers and pointers to how to fix issues and so on. And the second one is a documentation to make it easier to actually use Wikidata data in the other Wikimedia projects. The query service has seen a lot of improvements. For example, it now has support for linked data fragments. You can write queries that take other Sparkle endpoints into consideration with Federation. Unit conversion was added so you can actually meaningfully query for values in different units. And we added a bunch of new visualizations. But the best thing, I think, which still needs some work but is already helpful, is a new query builder which lets you click through a query for people who don't know Sparkle or who just want to change a part of a Sparkle query. There's also going to be a booth where you can test a prototype for a similar system so we can use that in the future to make it easier for Wikipedians, for example, to create queries that will generate list articles on Wikipedia, for example. So if you are interested in that, please go to the booth for that. And of course, you're all doing amazing queries. Thank you for sharing some of those on Twitter, for example. Here, plans that have an emoji, very important. Useful information to have in Wikidata, clearly. Or here, space crafts and missions and what they've been named after. Or paintings by Mimir that have a map in them. Or here, most general neutral given names according to Wikidata. Kim apparently is high up on the list. And this was very interesting for me, most disputed properties, meaning which properties most often have a disputed by qualifier. And apparently, country is only third. And I think this has to be my favorite. People flew seeds around the moon, planted them in all kinds of places in the United States and I think Brazil. And of course, we have them in Wikidata. All right. The next thing I have is the article placeholder. The article placeholder is one of the things that's very close to my heart because it is one of the tools that helps us support smaller languages and give them more support through Wikidata, which was what Wikidata is all about. And we've improved that, for example, by making it show up in search engines, allowing you to translate an article from another language if it is available, and so on. Then we worked on improving the integration in Wikipedia. Specifically, we have this prototype that should, in the future, help people edit Wikidata directly from Wikipedia. And if you want to try that out, we're looking for feedback. Talk to Charlie. Where's Charlie? Yes, there she is. Talk to her. We love your feedback because it's really not trivial to do this in a way that is both understandable for the Wikipedians but also does justice to our data model and everything around it. Another thing we've done for Wikipedia support is making our changes show up in recent changes and watch lists. In the past, it has only been available in one of two versions of those, and now it is available for everyone. And we've shown more information about which items are used on a given Wikipedia article, for example, in the page information to make it more transparent where data in that article is actually coming from which items. A big project is structured data on comments that's coming up. And Sandra will talk more about that in another session. Where's Sandra? Here, yes, her. But to make it short, Wikimedia Commons is a treasure. But there's so much amazing images, videos, and so on in it. But it's so hard to find anything. Just yesterday, I was looking for pictures for my presentation, and it was so frustrating. With the support of Wikibase and Wikidata, I hope we can make that much better over the coming years and make it much easier to find stuff on comments, also for people who do not speak English. And the other big venture we're going into is lexical graphical data. So data like you would find it on Wiktionary, for example. And I will talk more about that tomorrow in a session. And I would love to see many of you there, because I think it is another important point how Wikidata can support more projects inside Wikimedia, but also open up a lot of opportunities for projects outside Wikimedia. Wins and challenges of the past year, as I see them. We had a bit of, actually, I believe, quite a lot of struggle with coping with the growth of the content and the community. And this is why I'm so happy to have many of you here so that we can talk about some of those in person and see which processes, for example, we need to change and adapt now that Wikidata is much bigger than it has been a year ago or two years ago. Another win was that Freebase's ABI was shut down and with that Freebase is gone. Yes, I know. Sorry. No, I'm very grateful for everything Freebase has done before us, but it's also good to, as Sunset projects, when others can serve that need better. And I think it is a great thing that Freebase has decided to say, yes, Wikidata is the place that can now serve what Freebase has done before. On Wikipedia, the person data template and many other like it, on English Wikipedia and other Wikipedia's are deprecated or in part gone completely. So people on Wikipedia decided that Wikidata serves the use of that much better than they can right now. And we're here for WikidataCon. Some of the things that in terms of partnerships and that I thought were really great over the last year was, for example, the work Mapbox and OpenStreetMap have done on Wikidata, the work that my society has done around politicians, the work of the GeneWiki team and everything around it, and of course, content mind who are doing great work. Thank you very much. We've also seen quite a bit more use in Quora, for example, who are using our ontology to improve their topic tree or your wings who are using Wikidata's data in their inflight app. Yes, it's very cool. And unexpected. Or Yle, who is the Finnish broadcasting agency and is using Wikidata's ideas to tech their content in a language-independent way. People have been building new tools. For example, Libreview, which is a website where you can publish open, freely licensed reviews of pretty much anything. Books, newspapers, movies, what have you. And you can use Wikidata concepts to describe what you're reviewing or to identify what you're reviewing. There were games. And I think the coolest one is probably Gesser, which shows you a picture and a map and asks you where on this map was this picture taken. And then gives you points based on how close you were. It's actually really hard. Or Stadlandfluss, Stadland Wikidata. There's a German game called Stadlandfluss, city, country, river. And it gives you a letter and then you have to find a city, a country and a river starting with that letter. For some letters, this is really hard. And this Stadland Wikidata game does it and checks your answers based on the instance of statements in Wikidata. Or here, Skolja, which shows you information about institutions, scientists, publications, what have you based on the data that is in Wikidata. And there will be a presentation about that tomorrow as well by Fin today. Very good. Or here, Monumental, which is an app that takes the data in Wikidata that it is about monuments and presents them to you in a nice way with links to Wikipedia, puts them on a map and you can see pictures of it if there's pictures available on Wikimedia Commons and so on, which is very nice for planning your trip to a new city, for example. Or here, that is a tool that helps us better understand the gender gap on Wikidata, but also on Wikipedia. So based on the data that is in Wikidata, it will give you statistics on the gender of what Wikipedia, for example, is writing about. So what you can see here is that we have 5.9% articles about females who were born between 1700 and 1700, 09. And there's a lot more of those statistics and it really helps to see where exactly our gaps in the content, in Wikidata, but also on Wikipedia, is making it easier to counter the bias we have there. And of course, this was the point where I said, okay, we made it, Buzzfeed used our data to write an article that 2016 wasn't actually that terrible. All right, what's next? Data quality is an important topic. It comes up again and again and again in discussions from Wikipedia, for example, having the need for many more references for the data we have before, for example, English Wikipedia is able to use it. And I think we have to increase the data quality in many, many ways. One of them is getting a lot more use for our data because only if our data is used is it actually going to be kept in a good shape. So if you're working on tools that use Wikidata's data, awesome, please do more of that. I also think we need better tools and processes, especially processes around importing data, like making sure it fits with what we have, figuring out how that data is probably going to be used and stuff like that. The primary sources tool is getting an uplift right now to then make this a really viable tool for importing data into Wikidata with a human in the loop. I think we need to work on better feedback mechanisms both with people who give us data, but also with people who use our data so that they can tell us where they find issues in our data and then we can work on that. Yes, but with the amount of data we have now, we really need to do more automated checks like Fabian has been talking about for Yago. There's no way we are gonna be able to grow Wikidata without more of that. Simply because it's too much change that is happening on Wikidata. I was talking about the constraint checks that we have improved already and I think there's a lot more we can do. And another thing I have been thinking about for a while is signed statements. So that institutions, for example, who give us data can actually cryptographically sign a statement and say, yes, this is the data we provided to you. And it's easy for us to see when that value was changed and the reference no longer is correct. Then another big area of work that I think we need to focus on is making Wikidata more useful inside Wikimedia. So that's, first of all, working on better relations with Wikipedia editors, but also editors on all the other projects. Second, making it possible to edit Wikidata directly from Wikipedia and then support for Wikimedia, Wikimedia Commons and Wiktionary as the big projects that still need a lot of support from Wikidata. And then there's making Wikidata more useful outside Wikimedia. And there, I think we need to work on closer relations with the people who give us data, the people who use our data and as I said, get feedback from them on our data. But also making Wikibase software powering Wikidata easier to use and install. And with that growing ecosystem around Wikidata, for a simple reason, I don't believe that we want Wikidata to be this tree in the desert. I don't believe we should be the only ones doing open data and everything around us is nothing. Instead, I think Wikidata should be very central and a very big player in an ecosystem that links many, many similar projects together. And I hope we can see more of that over the next year. This was Wikidata one year ago and this is where we are today. Thank you very much. Are there questions? Yes, there. Okay, thank you very much. Here's from Pamel Wikimedia Belgium. Actually, I have two questions. I will put them together. Did you think about making constraints checking mandatory proactively? I mean, if a constraint is violated, why do you allow creating the statement? And then a second question is, do you think to make statements, marking statements as being doubtful just by clicking? As being not true. So then a user can indicate, I believe that the statement might be wrong or could have a data quality problem. Right, so your first question, do I think we should prevent input that violates constraints? No, for the simple reason that there's weird stuff in this world like this woman, Mary, in the Eiffel Tower. Yes, exactly. And things like that exist in the world and Wikidata is built to be able to handle that complexity. Or earlier Fabian was talking about this check that says, okay, a person probably shouldn't have died before they were born. That makes sense. Unless of course they are a time traveler. And I'm sure we have someone, Wikidata. So in that sense, no, I don't think so. But what I, where I want to go is make it easier for people to see when they enter data that would violate a constraint. To make them think like, is this really what I want to put in or is there a mistake? And I hope that that will already get us very far. And your second question was about indicating that a statement is wrong. Or wrong or doubtful, yes. A large part of that is handled, I would say by ranks, so that you can say this statement is deprecated, for example, for something that is no longer considered true in general. There's also the disputed by a qualifier where you can say, okay, the statement is disputed by this person, this organization, this body, and so on. And I think that already gets us pretty far in modeling. I'm curious about the massive increases this past year and specifically the last few months. Could you point at some known or suspected culprits? Yes, I believe I can. It's a lot of importance around scientific papers. Do the people who do that want to say something about that?  Wait, they can't hear you. Okay, well, that is part of the Wikisite project and we're happy to answer questions right now if they are short and we're going to give a talk on this later today, round five, I believe. So you're happy to come and then ponderize with more questions there. And you're also all welcome to contribute whether today or later on. Yes, so please come to the Wikisite session. A large part of these spikes is coming from there. And the spike in labels, you asked about that. That is the same. So a lot of those scientific papers, for example, have a label in one language. So that's why we're seeing the spike in labels or items with only one label. More questions, yes. Well, I want to add on why we should not restrict the constraint violations. One of your slides, quite some of the properties I proposed appeared on is one and it was expressed as being a disagreed property disputed by. And so in this specific project, we use a disputed by in statements that have both citations that agree on it and that disagree with it. So in that case, the disputed by is not to say this statement is incorrect. It's only there are multiple views that there is disagreement within the community. So when you would actually go into saying be restrictive on, you don't allow it, you actually go against, in my opinion, to the notepoint of view that you stick to one view. I think that's, yeah, I want to make this point here that we should have in wiki data the different possibilities and views of the data. Just a point. There was another question here. What kind of transparency is there on automatic checks so that people can see what the rules are that are being applied? Right, so all the rules are public. If you go to a property, for example, instance of, then at the bottom of it, you will have a constraint section that has all the rules that are being taken into account. So anyone can view those and unless they're heavily protected, also edit those properties. I have a question about wiki base. Yes. So when it comes to encouraging people to use wiki base, do you think the need to, on top of installing media wiki and not having the sparkle that need to use Lua to have full functionality of everything is a major constraint for the growth of wiki base by other people? Yes, I believe so. Which is why this is something I want us to tackle in the next year. Because right now it's way too hard to set up your own wiki base installation. And if you want the query service on top of that, it's even harder and it shouldn't be like that. Yes. Excuse me, I have a question. Is there some investigations which are done to increase the performance of wiki data? We have a lot of time out querying when we want to have some query results. And I think- Are you talking about the query service specifically or? No, just about increasing the performance to, like to solve that such a problem like this. There's always work on that. But if you tell me what specifically, do you mean performance of the query service or performance of- A query service, for example. Okay, then the person behind you is probably the right person to answer that. So, yes. But basically because of, we have hardware that is not changing too much, at least not very fast. And we have growing database. Some queries will always be slow. And given that this is a shared service, we have to put limits. Otherwise, other people would be hurt by it. What we are looking into right now is to basically have public and internal service and split, basically queries generated by internal wiki data mechanism like constrain checks, bots and so on, and users queries, which will give probably both more space to play and run every query. But I cannot really promise that all queries would be served in time. Some queries are just too expensive. Right. Like the new service probably a year to a year. And in general, if you have some queries that you believe are slower than they should be, talk to me and we'll see either maybe queries bad, maybe services bad, maybe there is a bug that can be worked around. Talk to me. All right. Someone was quicker. So, hi. There are two questions from remote. I'm reading them from the Atherpad. Is there a plan for a mobile interface, for a better mobile interface, or at least for a responsive interface in the future? Right. Unfortunately, no concrete plans at the moment. My hope was that when we work on integrating Wikidata editing in Wikipedia, that we redo a lot of our input widgets, which is the big part that's holding back better mobile support, and go from there. Okay. And the second question is, can we manage the way to separate the identifiers from the actual properties? This is a question from remote, eh? Separate how? They are already separated. Yeah, in a sense that they have another letter identifying them like C or I instead of B for property. C for catalog or I for identifier. Okay. That's the first time I hear this request. If that person who asked for it would explain a bit more, then we can talk about it. Yep. Just out of curiosity, is this map represent the number of it? This is how many or the lighter part of the map is, the more items on Wikidata have a geocordinate in that area. Okay. Okay. Is this published anywhere? Yes. On comments. Okay. There is a category Wikidata visualizations or something it's called. Hello, dear. You made the point that we have a very large number, I think it was 20 million items with a label in only one language. Yes. We could reduce that number greatly if we used a bot to copy the existing label to other languages for things where the label is common like people's names and the taxon names and the names of rock bands, particularly for where they use the same alphabet such as the Western alphabet. Obviously that doesn't apply to Arabic or Japanese or whatever. Right. There is some resistance to doing this. People say, oh, the software should handle that, but I don't see any indication that the software is going to handle that. It is. So do you think it will or do you think we should use a bot or do we still have to wait for people to edit them manually? So the Wikibase already has language fallbacks. So if you have, if you look at an item in Swiss German, for example, and there is a German label, then it will show you the German label also if you look at it in Swiss German. And so there's a whole chain of how these languages fall back. Everything at the end of that chain is English. So if we have an English label that at least helps some. So for the case of copying, if it's the same, I don't think that is necessary because language fallback should handle that if it's put into the English label. Where it makes sense, right? Yeah. Because the stats I showed on the one hand it is set, but I also want to not encourage you to game this in the sense that just copying labels to get up these statistics that's maybe not the best thing to do. But like where people really don't know what an item is about because there is no label in their language or any fallback language that they understand, those are the cases that we need to fix. Yes. Another question. I hear. I think trust is important in the new internet world. And my feeling is that we get a lot of external sources. Some are good, some are less good. Shouldn't we have some kind of ecosystem where we regularly check data for some facts with the sources we trust most and then document the difference or see if a change has done, which we don't like. We totally should. Yeah, and then I would like to see it so that if you have an info box up in Wikipedia, you can see that this is from a trusted source. As a reader, you shouldn't understand all those external identifiers. You need to understand some. I think this is better than... Right. So there are some bot runs already by I think Magnus and potentially also other people who are doing these checks and then adding references for those external sources. And I think that's one area. But the other area is automating that finding of differences. So you take Wikidata and you take another database like that of the German National Library, for example, and you compare the data and then tell Wikidata's editors and the German National Library about differences. So people can look into, okay, who is wrong here or is this a legitimate difference and can fix it. Yes, that is definitely something we should have and that we will be working on. I don't know yet when we will get to it. All right. Charlie, you mentioned in one of your answers, input widgets as a thing, but not in your description. Could you explain what that is? That sounds really interesting and important. What input widgets are? Yeah. Okay. Basically just a little thing you see when you put in a date or a URL or a link to another item, that thing. It has a box. Yeah. Sorry for using jargon. Hi. I'm Harmonia Amanda and I wanted to answer the question about Label because we actually have a project about names and it's a really, really complicated meter and we can't copy Label from one language to another without having a clear understanding of what the difficulty are and we are actually doing it. We are a team doing Label copying work slowly because we are doing it cleanly and please do not ever gamify that because we are not enough human with the understanding of the complexity of the situation to clean up after bad game understanding. Understanding, so please do not do that. All right. I wanted to ask what's about scale. So I'm from the cultural heritage sector and virtually Wikipedia is the perfect platform to document all our cultural heritage with all the context and so on statements about history and so on. And if we guess that we have maybe, I don't know, 40 million works of art which are relevant or like in museums and so on. So there might be then even 10 times more if we start declaring a single chair as a work of art or whatever. So that's a really large field. So what are the perspectives in this or what are your thoughts about this? I can tell you my thoughts. Yes, okay. How far Wikipedia and Wikipedia could be such a platform which can then be a wonderful thing for everybody to reference on. So we all talk about the same thing and make our statements about. So I can tell you what I think, right? So there are two things to take into consideration for me. And the first thing is just pushing the data into Wikidata is all nice and good but what is it gonna be used for? Who is gonna use that data to build something, to build an app, to build a visualization, a website? What have you? Or who is gonna learn something about the world through that data? And the other thing is technical and social scalability of Wikidata. Technical is something I and my team are working on and always have to work on because you're all pushing us to those limits. But what I'm much more worried about is the social scalability of Wikidata, right? With the people we have and the amount of data we have, if we want to grow the amount of data we have, we also have to grow the amount of people we have taken care of that data or and give them better tools to do that. And I think that is something we really need to work on. All right, thank you very much for all your questions. We are running out of time so if you have more questions, please ask after this session in private. Thank you very much. Thank you.


I am Staff Sergeant Cornolia 92 Alpha 498 CSSB Battalion to demonstrate the ISA and what it can do for my mission readiness here in South Korea. I like the ISA system here in South Korea better than the VSAT because instead of using the very small aperture terminal better known as a VSAT which weighed 450 pounds now I can use this ISA inflatable satellite antenna which weighs the maximum 220 pounds instead of having 492 alpha set it up I can do it in under 15 minutes with just myself and another soldier its slider is quicker it also works with the gcss system it's tactically efficient but and I hope to take this to Fort Bragg, North Carolina, where our PCS is next. Hold.