Serenity Scream, and with these tools, we will wrap it up. So thanks so much, Roy, and a card if whenever you are ready, Jack, you can just jump in and start. Yes, ScalaSkips, can you see my screen? Yeah, we can see it and we can hear you pretty clearly. Okay, great. So let me just get started. Okay, yep. Hello, everyone. A warm welcome for everyone who's joined this online meetup. And thank you to Carlos and Russell team for making this event happen. If you guys missed my introduction, I'm Karthik. I work as Delphalations Lead at DGRAPH Labs. And all throughout this talk, we're gonna learn more about what DGRAPH is all about. So this talk is about how to build GraphQL APA functions for TwitterClone just in 10 minutes. And we'll see how using DGRAPH just by composing a GraphQL schema file, we can automatically get all the GraphQL APA functions, GraphQL, the current GraphQL APA functions which are necessary are using which you could build a TwitterClone on your own. So let's just get started. Firstly, who's this talk for? If you are one among those who want to get started with GraphQL in minutes and don't want to worry much about server side, this talk is definitely for you. And having said that, it's not just important to get started fast or getting started in an easy way, but it's also, you might be concerned about the scalability and performance of your GraphQL API as your application grows and your application becomes more complex. We'll add a statu and we'll see how DGRAPH solves all of these challenges. So I guess like now, most of the viewers are familiar with GraphQL schema. So a GraphQL schema essentially represents a graph. So next time when you look at a GraphQL schema, do remember that what you are looking at is a graph. And a GraphQL schema represents your application data graph. Let's learn a bit more about how a GraphQL schema represents a graph and let's do a live exercise. So let's just compose a GraphQL schema for a read. And this is how in general, this is an approach which you could use in general to compose a GraphQL schema for your UIs. And this exercise kind of gives you a streamlined approach towards composing the GraphQL schema even for the most complex UIs. So let's look at this UI. We all are familiar with this. This is the UI for the treat. And this is a treat of which we just saw a while back when GraphQL Hong Kong made a course and announcement was made. And the first step is to identify all the entities of your UI. In this case, we have a Twitter user who's actually sending out the tweet. In this case, GraphQL Hong Kong is a Twitter user. And what other entities do we see here? We have the actual tweet, which is a second entity. And we also have Adlerate mentions. And Adlerate mentions are again Twitter users. So even the entity who's posting the tweet is also a Twitter user. And also the mentions are again Twitter users. So we now have two entities. One is a Twitter user and then the actual tweet. And the third entity could be the hashtags, right? In this tweet, we only see one hashtag. We have two, but in general, you can have any number of hashtags in a tweet. So now we have three entities, namely a GraphQL user of the tweet itself. I'm sorry, that Twitter user, the tweet itself. And then we have a hashtag. The next step is to represent all these entities as a node in a graph. So we had three entities and now we represent all of them as nodes. Namely, now we have user node, tweet node and a hashtag node. The next step is to see how these different nodes are related to each other. Do we have a relationship between a user node and a tweet node? If you look at the UI, yes, we definitely have a relationship, right?  So let's represent this relationship using an author's edge from a Twitter user node to a tweet. And next, let's see like from a UI, is a tweet in any way relates to a Twitter user? It does, right? A tweet can mention a Twitter user. So let's represent this relationship between a tweet and a user, a Twitter user, using a mentioned edge. So these edges essentially represents the relationships between these nodes. And again, the relationship between a tweet and a hashtag node is can be represented using a tag with edge. So again, quickly, so we started with our UI and then we represented, we have firstly identified all the entities in the UI. We identified three entities. We represented each of the entities as a node and then we represented the relationship between these entities as edges between these nodes. So the next step is to translate this graph diagram, what we call as an application data graph to a GraphQL schema. That's relatively easy to do because as I mentioned earlier, every GraphQL schema essentially represents a graph, the graph of your application data or the data requirements of your UI. So let's see how to now, how do we translate this into a GraphQL schema? The first step is to represent each of the nodes as types in your GraphQL schema. So we had three nodes and now we represent or we create GraphQL schema types for each of these nodes. And you could see that we now, we have three types that is like type user, type tweet and type hashtag. And the next step is that now we have the templates for all the types corresponding to each of the nodes from our graph. The next step is to represent the relationship or this edges between the nodes. So the way we represent this relationship is by creating a field for your types where the field would refer another type. In this case, you have type user which refers type tweet and author it. So similarly, if you see the type tweet, the type tweet refers back a type user while and mentioned it, right? And the next step, once we have the relationships of represented using the types referring to each other is to fill in what other fields each of these entities would have and what are its types? For instance, for type user, each user would have a unique ID which is represented by the GraphQL standard type, the ID type, and then a user would have a username. A Twitter user also would have a user handle which is a string and we again have the relationship of a user with a tweet by an author it. So after we represent the relationships, the next step is to fill in the fields for each of the types. And similarly, we now fill in the fields for the other types, right? We have that tweet has a unique ID of a tweet. Also has a tweet message, it's a string of, I think in the last slide, when we start on representative relationship between a tweet and a hashtag. So now we represent that using the tag with edge. Now we have the GraphQL schema, right? We started with your application UI and we added the data graph for your UI and then we represented the data graph as a GraphQL schema. And what you see now is essentially the representation of all the data requirements for your UI as a GraphQL schema. And the next step is just by using this GraphQL schema file, we're gonna auto generate all the credit GraphQL functions necessary to build a Twitter clone or to power all the data requirements of your UI. And let's see how to do that using DGraph. And before we do that, let's understand a bit more about what is DGraph in the first place. DGraph is the world's most advanced graph database and DGraph is open source, is a transactional and distributed native graph database. And here is what's exciting for the folks from the GraphQL community. DGraph is the only native GraphQL database which natively interprets and distributes, stores and executes GraphQL, which means that GraphQL is a first-class citizen for DGraph and GraphQL is not an additional layer on top of the database. You might have used other database alongside GraphQL by having an additional GraphQL layer on top of the database which translates the client GraphQL queries into the corresponding database query language. But in case of DGraph, GraphQL is just built in right within the database and GraphQL is a first-class citizen. So there's no layer being required and DGraph is also built from ground up to serve GraphQL workloads. So with DGraph, all you need to know to get started is just GraphQL.  And then as your application evolves, where you need new product features, all you need to do is again, come back, edit your GraphQL schema file and iterate on your APIs. So not just you can get started with GraphQL, you also iterate only using GraphQL. And DGraph, the database admin endpoints are also GraphQL. So which means like all the database operations you can perform using the GraphQL endpoint with which DGraph provides. And DGraph is built, every database is built for a very specific kind of workloads. And in case of DGraph, it's built from ground up, it's built from scratch to be able to efficiently serve and scale for Graph like or GraphQL like or GraphTraverse like workloads. So if you are a GraphQL user and if you're building GraphQL applications, the kind of workloads your database would be operating in once you have a lot of client queries coming in because you're using GraphQL in the front end, DGraph efficiently resolves all the data requirements of your UI in one network call, in one shot because that's what it's been built from ground up to serve efficiently and scale for. And okay, let's just see it in action. Let's run DGraph. We are using DGraph standalone container. This is not a recommended way to run DGraph in production but this is great for quick start purposes. So let's start DGraph. So the database is up. And so this is a GraphQL schema which we just composed which represents the UI for a tweet. And the next step is to submit this GraphQL schema file using the curl request to DGraph. So let's do that. So this is successful. We just submitted this GraphQL schema file. And now you can use any of your favorite GraphQL editors field use GraphQL Playground. If you're just powering up your GraphQL tool or GraphQL Playground just point it to HTTP colon slash slash local host ADID slash GraphQL. So let's just look at the introspection and you could see that DGraph has auto-generated GraphQL credit functions. Now for each of the types which is submitted to DGraph auto-generates five GraphQL functions. For instance, corresponding to the type user we have get user, query user, update, delete and add user auto-generated. And similarly, you can see that corresponding to the type tweet which is submitted we have get tweet, we have query tweet, we have add tweet, update tweet and delete tweet. So for, as I mentioned for each of the GraphQL type which you submit DGraph auto-generates five GraphQL credit functions. So now let's just add some tweet using the mutation. Let me just quickly see, there seems to be an error. Okay, I just see that a value is missing. Let me just quickly grab the mutation from schema again. We have the mutation. Oops, there seems to be an error. We should be able to type tweet request of value for field author. I think we're just missing. Okay, let's just move forward. I think it's just a issue with the mutation format. And basically once you submit the schema DGraph auto-generates all the credit API functions for you. And then once you have the credit functions let's say you start to iterate on your application and then you have a new requirement for your app that is to be able to have a search feature for your user handle. So it's very simple now. All you need to do is just come back to your schema just edit the schema and add a simple directive to your schema. In this case, we add iterate search by hash and just adding this entry making this simple edit to a schema gives you ability to search for users based on the user handle. So just go back to the schema and just to make this simple entry. So let's just grab the schema change for user handle and go back to our schema. Let's add this, save the file and let's just resubmit the schema file to DGraph. Okay, so this is successful. So now just on adding a simple directive you would be able to query for the user, right? So you can filter, add a filter to say, hey, by the way, find the user by name Hackintosh Rao and give the user's information and you can then request for all the tweets the user has authored and then you can even probably request for the hashtags of those tweets. So have tagged with and then hashtag and the inspection makes it really easier to be able to get all the auto generation recommendations while you compose your schema or your queries. So let's say now we are able to search for user based on the user handles. How about we, that your product now needs a new feature to be able to search for user by user names too. Again, pretty simple. Come back to the schema and just add a new directive at the rate search search for user by hash, hash essentially sets and hash index in the database which allows you to search user by user's name. So let's just do that. So let's just make that simple addition into our schema and now let's just resubmit the schema to digraph and that's it. You should be able to run a query to now to search for user based on user's name. Similarly, let's say now you want to search for user just by using user's first name or last name instead of the full name. All you need to do is just again, come back and edit your GraphQL schema, right? To change the index for username from hash to term. So this essentially helps you to enable you to search for user based on user's first name or last name or any of the terms in user's name need not necessarily use the complete string of the user name. So very simple, just come back, edit the index, resubmit the schema and now you should be able to search just by using user's first or last name or any of the terms in user's name. And similarly, digraph offers a variety of indices and it's very simple. Every time you need to add a new product feature, come back, add a new database index to your GraphQL types and resubmit it and digraph rebuilds the index on the life. There's no need to even restart the server and you should be able to then use a new more powerful creating facilities. For instance, let's say to power your Twitter search you want to be able to search by such using a regular expression. For instance, I'm Kartik Raph, let's say if you want Kartik Raph to be in your user search, in your Twitter search, even if you use a substring of my name, let's say ART, in such a case you need a regular expression search capabilities, again, very simple, just come back, add the regular expression index, save, same process, resubmit, then just come back you should be able to run this query wherein now we are searching just based on a substring in the user's name and as soon as you type ART in the search box, then you should be able to get the recommendation of Kartik in the list of users you're searching for, right. So again, we digraph as I mentioned, it's not just you can get started over there using the database just using GraphQL, but also you can iterate as your product requirements evolves as your UI requirements evolves just by using GraphQL. Now, similarly, like we moved on from our last schema to extend the schema to offer new search capabilities. So if you look at type tweet, we've added a full text search for based on the content of the tweet that is the strings in the tweet itself. And similarly, if you look at hashtag, we added a regular expression based search for hashtags too. So we just looked at few of the database indices which digraph offers and every time you come back if you want to make use of this database index to power your application feature, you just edit the GraphQL schema file. We saw regular expression hash. Now we see full text search and also digraph offers other advanced indexes like geo search. If you're building a mobile application or a web application which uses location data, which where you want to build queries, like find me all the restaurants within one kilometer of this location or within a polygonal structure. It's super easy to do that. And we are adding more powerful capabilities, more powerful indices database and all you need to do is every time to make use of it is to come back and edit your GraphQL schema file. So let's just quickly extend our schema and update our schema with this full text schema. Okay, here we have the full text schema. And now again, just resubmit the schema and go back to the playground. So now we can do a full text search based on the content of the tweet itself, which was not possible before and all we had to do to enable this feature is to add a very simple directive to your GraphQL schema. So let's move on and let's just have a quick recap, right? Now with Dgraph, all we did to obtain the credit GraphQL functions is to compose your GraphQL schema. So if you're an app developer, if you're a GraphQL developer or building your mobile application or web application, start with a UI, identify the entities, get your application data graph and convert that into a GraphQL schema. And then that's all you need to get started with Dgraph and Dgraph gives you full-fledged credit GraphQL functions to build your applications and all of this from just your GraphQL types. Right, yep, that's all I have for this talk. I am pleased to check out Dgraph's website graphql.org or Dgraph.io and more specifically if you're interested about learning Dgraph's GraphQL capabilities, you can take a look at Dgraph.io slash GraphQL and Dgraph is open source. Please do feel free to go download and try Dgraph. And I think the easiest way for you to be up-to-date with all the updates from Dgraph Labs is to follow Dgraph Labs on Twitter. Please visit at the rate Dgraph Labs or you can follow me on Twitter at the rate hack into SH, RAV, that's hack into RAV, that's me and other two resources are to stay up-to-date would be to follow Dgraph's blog at blog.dgraph.io and also I think Dgraph would be a good place to follow up with all the products development and even the product roadmap. Thank you, thank you everyone for your time and thank you Carlos for having me here. Yes, it's a pleasure to get together. Thanks so much for joining us and introducing us a bit about Dgraph. I think it's such a promising technology. We do have a question for you. So Tobias, actually he's asking about what is the difference between the term and full text? Right, right. Yeah, so these are two different database indices and term index enables you to search only based on our terms in the string. For example, if this is your string, what I'm highlighting, is my screen on? Yes, sir. Okay, yep. Okay, so the term index enables you to search by any of the term in the string, but this term has to be exact. For example, we have, let's say Carlos Rufo. If you are searching for Carlos, you can search for Carlos either by searching for Carlos or for Rufo. So any of the terms in the string, but full text search gives you more advanced string search capabilities. This is more meant for paragraphs of texts. Like let's say if you have the information for your entire blog or it could be a tweet or it could be a bio, right? And this essentially contains a lot of strings, sometimes hundreds of strings and hundreds of characters. I think full text search is ideal for searching for such entities where you have a lot of words. And in case of full text search, you need not search for the exact string. Let's say your string says, I am talking at GraphQL of Hong Kong, meet up today in the evening. You can search for talk Hong Kong graph, that's it. So you need not use the exact strings. You still be able to get this particular string in your search results. So it's a more powerful string search facility or a feature which is typically used for entities where you have a lot of words. As I said, for instance, it could be a blog post or a bio or a tweet wherein it's difficult to have a lot of characters, a lot of words in it. Awesome. Yeah, I think like a, it was a really good answer. And a, basically I guess it's a different search for some ideas depending of whatever you need in that filter, let's say. And to wrap it up, probably the QA, I got a good question. So I would like to know the main advantages of the graph compared to other graph databases solutions. Right. Firstly, the graph is a native graph database. If you're talking about just graph databases or databases with support GraphQL, Okay. So in terms of scalability or like distribution, is there any advantages of the graph? Definitely yes. So firstly, the graph is a distributed database, and which means it's horizontally scalable. And you can start with one node where you're starting to build your application non-volume customers, but as your business grows, you can just keep adding the second node, the third node and fourth node and fifth node and so on. It just seamlessly scales. And it's specialized for high throughput, low latency use cases. It's built from ground up to be super-performance for graph-like or graphical-like workloads. I think that scalability, the graph offers and its performance, I think is something where the graph stands out from the rest of the graph databases in the ecosystem. Okay, that sounds awesome. So yeah, I think that we can a graph be that for today.  So great. So yeah, like thanks so much to everybody. There are another question, what is the testing history for it? Can you have any memory version on it? Can you just put it into my test? So there are like a few questions, Karatee in the YouTube channel, but you can feel free to go there and just like sit with a Ta-Ma sermon in order to answer the question because we are running out of time. Basically to finish off, I really wanna thanks to everybody's for your time, for your knowledge. And probably like Tobias as a co-organizer, he can jump into closing the middle. Yeah, thank you Carlos. I think first of all, thank you everyone.


Hello everyone and welcome to JSA TV and JSA Europe the newsroom for telecom and data center professionals across the continent I'm John Max Lim and on behalf of the team here at JSA. Thank you for tuning in to the first of three parts of our end of the year special broadcasting series Today, we'll be looking at the future powerhouses of Europe aka data centers We will delve into the geographic locations on the rise in the digital infrastructure connectivity and data center space across the region As well as the benefits of these new destinations the role of the upcoming regulations affecting many of the EU territories And what to look out for in the new year Having said that it is now my pleasure to introduce our exceptional executive lineup Which includes Tom Glover head of data center transactions for EMEA JLL David Hull senior vice president of collocation for Atlas Edge and Matthew Bains vice president for the design and construction partners for the cloud and service Provider segment at Schneider Electric Everyone thanks so much for joining me. I thought before we jump on questions I thought if you could just give us a very quick elevator pitch on what you do and what the company focuses on It just gives our viewers a bit of a background on on the things that the company does Maybe start with you Tom, and then we go around And then yeah, so what's your elevator pitch? The 30 seconds so JLL is well known as a real estate Organization but within the data center arena specifically we act on behalf of operators on behalf of cloud providers on behalf of investments and developers Investment funds across a whole plethora of different areas on the transactional front from finding sites to buying sites to buying companies to Advisory work to research and then flip across to the facilities management part of our business as well Pretty much everything except actually owning any data centers is perhaps the the elevator pitch for JLL And that's what I'm responsible for. It's the transactional side Almost like the Airbnb model in a very different way, but you know what I mean David Hi JLL. Yeah, so I described that edge as the world's maybe controversy the world's only real date to edge data center business And what I mean by that we're real because we're not a software or network business We're really building and buying data centers to expand our reach Real because we're really on the edge of the network and that's kind of what we mean by edge I mean that's partly thanks to some of our investors and we'll talk about that bit later Real because we've got real customers who actually pay us and real books. We're really generating returns for our investors So it's kind of that snapshot about this edges business, I guess Yeah, and I think actually now it is important to say that you're real because you do have real estate assets People out there they say they exist but there's nothing to show But we won't we won't get through that one today and then Matthew Yeah, hi Joe.  So we Should I don't let you we're a global, um, let's say a Manufacturer technology company We are French headquartered, but we are a global company. You could say we're manufacturer of data center solutions offers in terms of hardware, but not just that we are also a big software company in terms of the management of your data centers as well, but actually What we really try and do is empower our customers to make the most of their energy and their resources and really it's it's to position ourselves to be your your digital partner for sustainability and efficiency and That's on a global scale. We are a global company. I'm based out of London. I'm on a goal I have a global role based Here in Europe working with the global Cloud and service provider segmenting And yeah, and what you do is a very important part of the instrument because it actually keeps the lights on Thousands of data centers across the globe and then the region of course But I think I think this panel is very exciting because we do have the operational side We have the energy side and we have the finance real estate real estate not real estate tree Side of the the conversation as well. I mean so I mean Tom You're joining us from Frankfurt's all of the other ones or all of us are based in London at the moment It's To the flap markets so the tier one cities Frankfurt London Paris Amsterdam and Dublin as well We've know a lot about them, but what's really in people's minds at the moment It's the tier two locations the new uponcoming Hubs like Milan Madrid Warsaw So my first question really is what are the new locations across the continent? What's really driving investment? In terms of geographies and I'll open to the floor I don't know if Tommy from to start off someone else wants to start. Yeah, I'll kick it off I think the right flat D. Everybody's very familiar with them and they're going nowhere. Let's not kid ourselves They're going to continue to see growth over the for foreseeable future And not least I would throw into this thought process because of AI But putting that to one side, I would say locations like Lisbon Portugal Madrid the land Italy Barcelona you're going to see more more developments there But let's not forget noting the Nordic region where all these locations as there's been investment There's been data centers operational for for many years, but the Nordics especially with the advent of the sort of the learning data centers that are going to be driving the growth of AI in The future I think the Nordics offers a huge potential interest area Just because of the the climate and the renewable sources of power so Without wanting to grab all of the answer to this one. It's everywhere is interesting I do not see one country. It's not interesting. I including that in the Baltics right now And we're not even touching on Middle East of Africa today. We're just talking about Europe frankly, so it's all exciting Looking closely at Vienna looking closely at Madrid looking closely at Lisbon looking closely at Barcelona and Milan They're the key what I would say right there. Yeah, I think that's this very interesting I mean, I can only imagine the amount of the straining that's going on in boardrooms When it comes to putting pins on the map because whatever you put a pin you can actually build something And surely that you will be able to find somewhere so someone to anchor the facility and the Nordics is interesting It's I mean the Nordic start developing around the meat 2010 And we've seen a massive boom especially with the hyperscaler with the hyperscaler client And then it kind of went a bit softer because we've seen the other regions grow But it's kind of coming into a 2.0 euro when it comes to the Nordic's a lot more people Investing in the region and I really want to get David's and Matthew's view on this as well Especially on the energy side because that's I guess it's the biggest UPS of the Nordic's is the energy availability And the pricing of set of said energy It's funny actually you talked about pins on the back to actually at the stages name Come from we've been thinking about it in terms of the pudding pins in an atmosphere So you hear all exactly how we name ourselves that you we have kind of an opposite view I so we talk about two kind of motions in the kind of where data sensors being developed We talk about this cloud out motion So I guess we all kind of know that the cloud essentially lives in the flat D markets But if you think about some of those flat markets, they're kind of not really interesting from a GDP perspective There's not that many Dutch or Irish people and actually from a GDP perspective the Netherlands and I don't actually create much GDP Compared with something like a Germany or a France, right? So actually we kind of think those markets are certainly Sort of fairly saturated and I think Tom's right probably possibly some new applications might make them more interesting This to be determined whether or not those applications are better hosted close to the end users And I think there's certainly a debate to be had about that But I think that our expectation certainly is that those markets won't grow as quickly And it's always hard to grow a market when it's very big, right? But certainly I don't think we see that the kind of double-digit growth in those markets that we might expect to see somewhere like a Berlin So we talk about this kind of cloud out motion, right?  But there's now applications whether those are machine learning or whether those are server hungers or whether they're Latency sensitive or bandwidth sensitive that require you to move that kind of closer to your end users, right? So I think that that motion is essentially what we're seeing kind of primarily driving demand at the moment Certainly the places that Tom might mention like Lisbon and Berlin and Hamburg and Stuttgart And Germany's an interesting market because you've got such a distributed GDP So only where we're looking is where there's big GDP and not many data centers, right? That's just kind of a logical thing that you might want to do if there's lots of people if there's lots of companies And there's not really many data centers. It seems kind of logical You might want to build some and then on the other side It's the kind of age in motion, right? And I think that that's probably somewhat less developed, but that's kind of saying well, okay I don't want data centers in my you know my office anymore Or I don't want data centers in my factory anymore I benefit from consolidating some of that IT into a data center Which is still quite proximate to my locations and my people but a bit further away than my office So I think for us that that's certainly what we see driving demand But but you know as Tom kind of alluded to That cloud out motion is is massively more significant at the moment than the the kind of age in motion Which I think is why you're seeing certainly asked building kind of 20 30 megawatt sites Not the kind of 500 kilowatt a megawatt sites that you might expect in the kind of far-edge Movie in was but certainly that was the kind of market. Everyone was talking about five years ago Which doesn't seem to develop yet anyway Interesting and I think just out today that I think maybe to a lesser extent at this stage still and Matthew I think you're probably gonna be able to to add on what I'm gonna say But it's it's also about disperse in the power consumption from the bigger hubs into into other parts of the the the countries To not supercharged the grids in those more more heavy locations In a way, I don't know. I think what I'm saying is it's Correct what I'm saying or can you give us a view on this inability front and the energy front? I mean just just firstly I echo Tom and David, of course, I mean David is interesting you say in terms of growth Are the core markets gonna grow as much as the other markets in terms of caga? Probably not but then it's like it's like the US market really they what's the caga may be low Not flat, but low. Let's say they're still building 3,000 megawatts That's it's still a there's still a huge demand for new capex investment for data centers in these core markets I I think it still feels a little bit like and Tom you can either that if you build it They will come in Frankfurt if you can get it They will come at least anyway, so still still great markets, of course, but then we're seeing the spillover I think into Berlin for example and places like that spillover markets where capacity is constrained, but just how you said Around power. I mean, I I don't need to talk about it too much Everybody knows that some of the biggest challenges are land and power in our sector for sure People are looking at how they can generate power in core markets whether through on-site generation of micro grids Hydrogen generators, whatever that might but whatever that might be, but of course that is difficult not always easy to get the permits not always easy to negotiate and work with the energy providers the DNO's or The regulators whoever that may be and sometimes the ROI is a little bit tricky for that as well in terms of your your business case And your investors might not see that as a best Investment to make some of the investors we we see have a Short-term view than others of course as well. So you've got to balance that that out But other markets tier two Tom's mentioned them David has for sure Milan We're seeing at the moment is a very ripe market Madrid Barcelona Lisbon. You said and Zurich is Zurich still tier two. I don't know I don't like the term tier two because they're tier one in their own country, of course Major capital markets, let's say, but there are some challenges. I think I was talking to one Major operator where they're saying they're actually gonna focus. They're not gonna focus should I say so much on tier two They really want to focus on the major campus sites and that's where they want to put their energy There's enough demand there They can't spread themselves too thin to go into all of the the Secondary markets if we just use that term And so there is there is opportunity David for people like at this edge and other place to really hop on and be early Early adopters in those in those cities. I think it's I think it's fantastic and it will help Breed newcomers and new entrants perhaps as well the new investors in that in that space Maybe some areas that it could be a little trickier to do business with I do think again some investors It depends what the fund is Ease of doing business and return and the cost and things but to finish on what your point was our power of course is Tricky and then we need Western grade data centers built to Western grade with sustainability in mind Of course as well top of mind. I think there's a question perhaps later on on Regulation and sustainability as well. So we'll touch on it later On the power front now I mean actually power power is hard, right? But you can dig a hole and you eventually can get power generally speaking some will upgrade the substation It will come it may not come exactly where you want it I think Madrid you're looking at like eight years at the moment and no one wants to eight years But actually the bigger challenge that I foresee certainly in the flat T markets is the requirement to recover and reuse heat Right because I can build a gigawatt campus in Frankfurt But if I have to recover and reuse 300 megawatts of heat Must hope that people want a lot of saunas nearby Because that's a huge amount of heat and actually that's that's going to be certainly in Germany And as you say, we'll cover it perhaps when we talk a bit more about sustainability But that's certainly going to be a big challenge where you've got like In the U.S. But you know Ashburn, Virginia, what are you going to do with eight gigawatts of heat? All right, so it's an awful lot of heat if you want to recover and reuse it And I think you know 30% is the kind of threshold that Germany is setting But we're clearly in the future We're going to look back and wonder why we could console ourselves that PUE was the measure of how efficiently We were boiling the oceans or heating the sky in a world where energy is scarce, right? And I think clearly we're going to want to recover and reuse all our waste heat And that's certainly going to drive a more distributed data center architecture I think just purely because you know, I can get I can get power relatively easily Somewhere in a concentrated half Frankfurt or Amsterdam And it's much harder to see how you could recover and reuse the heat And I think if that German legislation that comes a template in Europe, which I hope it will And that's really going to make it very difficult to substantiate building more data centers in Dublin and Amsterdam Yeah, I mean you you you mentioned PUE I don't want to open the can of worms and now and I know Tom You're very passionate about PUE, but it almost brings the question of do we need PUE Of where we are with things, especially when we look on a global scale. I mean a PUE number in Europe Compared to an Asian PUE number, for example, a Singapore number It doesn't it doesn't match. It doesn't fit. It's completely different realities So it's almost the case like like you said, we want to evaluate these things on a PUE basis On the actual benefit of the data center to the local community And to the point of the the heat reusable and the grids a lot of infrastructure is not built On the grid front. I mean, if you go to southern Europe, there's no infrastructure built to send Heats to to even to a local pool Let it let alone to the housing to the housing pipeline I know yeah, Barcelona, you've got a nice LNG recastification plan that's desperate for your heat So they can recastify their LNG And I you know, I think there are other trends things like the recording and stuff that allow you to recover Waste heat at much higher float return temps than you could and if you're able to recover heat at like 60 70 c Then you can start to think about running things like absorption chillers So I don't I don't think that it's he recovering reuse is something that only applies in northern Europe Which I think we often kind of have historically thought about I think it's just as valid in southern Europe as well But I'm sure the other guys have have thoughts only Matthew. I'm sure has thoughts around that Um, yes, I have thoughts It's uh, it's an interesting one. I think it's been in discussion for a while. I've seen some use cases I've seen some examples where people have have um Made use of this waste heat and I think it's um, but it's pretty unique at the moment Regulation will probably dictate that there's got to be something around The use of it or the reuse of it somewhere somehow and that may certainly dictate the location and uh geographical nature where we put data sensors and what we can do with that waste heat Or as you said David, we actually the technology inside the data center Utilizing that waste heat differently and then actually we design data centers differently and It's almost like a circular Technology economy inside the data center One or the other I think it's tricky. It's certainly There's a bit of nimbyism. So you don't want data centers by your Residential areas to heat homes. I mean it's that would be ideal in a way or public offices and schools and things but as we know It's just not really viable that 500 megawatt data center campus is on the doorstep of a primary school or something like that. It's just We often focus too much on this idea of using waste heat for residential when there's actually a thousand Other uses for that heat. I I love the things that The guys at pure dc have been doing the Nordic you're using it for salmon farming of all things and then you've got the the use of it in um Vertical farming scenarios, you know, there's lots of other things that the waste heat can be useful beyond the residential aspect Maybe there's an argument to be had that says A data center should be in the middle of a big farm field Because if you then export the to support that farm to help it, you know produce better crops more crops For the population and that's actually a good use of the lab But no, but you're right. I think people are going to have to be imaginative and innovative here because It's likely it will come through in regulation Right with the with the european commission. I suspect for sure. So we're going to have to be creative I don't there's no I don't think there's anything written about what you do with it necessarily, you know, there are different grades of of how you utilize it and Do you get special credits for utilizing it in one way versus another? I don't know but that's the calm I guess tom and People who are thinking about it now will obviously have a bit of a head start Everybody on this call agrees So the industry itself our industry we're all saying the same thing We should be reusing our heat somehow somewhere some sometime as soon as possible. So we're all saying this I think we're all saying the same thing here Yeah Question around pue, right? I'd much prefer to have the data center with a pue of 1.5 When I'm recovering and we're using 100% of my waste heat and heating a hospital because essentially I'm displacing The load that that hospital would be running their boiler Well, so if actually it's fine heating the ocean and having some salmon farming Although I think salmon farming in that scale is bad for the environment generally But but it is better than probably having electric heaters in the ocean to farm salmon And but actually if I'm displacing a hotel or a hospital that would have been running a boiler There's actually a negative carbon impact from my data center, right? so That's a massively powerful That's a massively powerful thing to be able to do and actually I think that it really is incumbent on us as an industry to Make choices about where we build data centers based on us having neighbors who want the heat And if I look at projects that we have under construction every single one of those projects has a neighbor who will Not all of our wasted, right? So I'd love to be telling you truthfully that we found people to export 20 megawatts of waste here And that there are some examples where we can But all of our projects were able to export some of our wasted And that for us is just because we make that a criteria of site selection So that's totally up to the industry. You can do it or you cannot do it Right, but it's totally but you totally within your grasp to be able to do it You just have to make different choices when it comes to to selecting a site And I think with respect to building a 500 megawatt data center next to a primary school Probably not right, but if I went to a local council and said, hey, look, you've got a sports center Or you've got a swimming pool. You've got a bit of land. You're not having as many people drive there now Why don't I build a data center in your car park and I'll use my waste heat To provide you essentially with free heating for your swimming pool library, whatever I think there are some UK mini councils who'd be interested in the opportunity to not pay a heating bill And to lease a few car parking spaces to a data center operator And of course there's people like deep heat or deep green, I think who are doing exactly that So, you know, and then that's a small scale, but certainly I think that The trend is moving that direction and as operators certainly is incumbent on us to make sure that we are choosing actively to participate in that not just hoping that someone will come along And want to use our heat, which of course is not realistic in some locations Yeah, it's like guys. I think we will have to get creative On how to do this and have to be willing to do it as well I think some operators still need to make their shifts from we can do it to actually doing it In that sense, and there's plenty of use case. I mean, we have for example, Q scale even though it's in Canada Where they use the entirety entirety heat for use to To farm tomatoes and other vegetables, which are then sent out to schools and community centers and everything We have equinix next year is going to warm up the olympic pool in paris With the data centers heat. So we were starting to have some some nice use cases And like I said, we will have to have creative use creativity to come up with different ones So we cannot even think about that the moment But you've all mentioned the keyword of regulation and I think that's kind of There is actually the hot words for for 2024 I would say with everything that's going to come into into effect in europe within this is the first First half of the year. So my question will be I mean to all of you What sort of regulations should everyone be aware in europe right now? That's coming in 2024 and how is that going to shift? The the could shift the landscape. I mean, we already mentioned that maybe in the future These things will dictate where data centers get built Which will I don't know if it's a good thing if it's a bad thing we can also ask the question But let's go through the regulation scenario now. So What should we be looking out for and I'll let someone start CSRD, I'll kick off with that one. So corporate sustainability reporting directive measurements started this year The actual effect of those measurements will start taking impact in 2024 What I like about this is it's It's new. It's the first time. I think that regulation in europe has actually come into force And not all but most data center operators will have to abide by it But not all because there are certain sort of the Benchmarks you've got to achieve before you you have to To report on it I'd like to think that those data center operators that don't fall within the criteria that mean you have to report on this Reporting directive. I'd like to think that they would see it as a best practice anyway But for me what I like most about it is it's starting to measure multiple facets of Sustainability not just PUE is looking at the whole plethora of attributes within industries not just data centers, but across commercial industries And if you yourself think You're not doing particularly well against some of these metrics. That's a good thing You can start now putting things in place that you can measure against a consistent number You started off at x we want to make improvements of x plus 5 or x plus 10 or whatever you decide is a business So as opposed to it being a stick to beat yourself up with as an organization I like to think of csrb as as a initiative as a regulation that should Over time enable people to see and companies to see just how well they are performing and behaving Um, and then making improvements against that if you're not measuring it you can't do anything about it So that that'd be my starter for 10 Yeah, I think the measuring is very important and of course the reporting as well Um, and then I a lot of third dimension, which is actually understanding the data And who's reading it needs to understand it especially policy makers, uh, but uh, davey mathew Yeah, I mean, uh, I'll go I'll go with tom. I mean you've got the energy efficiency directive from the european union as well I mean these are He's a similar and coupled with what tom's saying, you know, there's got to be transparency in Reporting from from data center operators now. I think it's very important that that that takes place. There's still some um, the industry needs to Needs to eventually agree on what the reporting looks like and what are we reporting? um, and who too as well, of course, I mean, that's uh Uh, we're getting there and I know the eu dca is working on this quite um actively with the european commission um self regulation is something we would like to do as an industry certainly If not if not then a form of it, which means we actually come together as one voice um, and we have that and the voice in front of the european commission is a um coordinated Voice if we look messy as an industry, it's more likely that they'll Do quite heavy top-down regulation? Uh, when they don't really understand the industry that much. So I think I do I do see some active, um, um coordination activity with the a lot of operators in europe with the eu dca um in this in this space and the eed um Was influenced let's say by the european data center association to a certain extent for sure Um, it certainly had its say So we need to continue on this path. I think we need to work together We've got to um eventually at some point soon Agree on what those measurements are and what they look like But it's going to be key. I think and um, it's going to be interesting how people Take this on board and when they take it on board they, um Believe climate data centers need to be climate neutral by 2030 That's the and and the eedca is working on a climate neutral data center pack to really gather the thoughts gather the um Intellectual property of the operators on how we can all collectively achieve that so we've started in 2023 as tom said It's going to ramp up in 2024 all the way to 2030 and probably beyond but I think um In general this industry can give itself a pat on the back anyway because it's um strive Towards sustainability energy efficiency. Let's say Is helps the bottom line anyway and it helps differentiate them and it helps you win business and investors like it So all of that put together. I think we're on a on a good path But regulation is going to come in europe and we'll follow in other places, but it may be different You talked about the us What are you going to do with all that wastey? Well, they probably won't regulate on it then because it's there's not much As you said, perhaps you can do with it, but we have the climate accord from the eye masons and all of these Organizations will come together and are working together to make sure that we have something that's sensible Um, and that we have one voice in front of the regulators. I think is important That's interesting. I was actually chatting to the climate neutral. They sent a pack guys earlier this week and um The amount of ground work that has been done this year alone It's this quite extraordinary. So I'm expecting big things next year in terms of actual visible palpable um reports and announcements and news and and actions Um, not lobbying. They were very very they they made sure I didn't say it was lobbying But uh, actually getting things off of the paper onto to the streets Of brussels to actually get action on on the way and david give us your view as an operator Yeah, so I mean, I guess I come in this war of kind of engineering perspectives I worry about the practical impacts of this legislation actually I don't really worry about it because wonderful thing about average is that we have essentially a clean sheet So rather than having to defend Tom years of capital investment that I worry that legislation is going to Cause me to have to invest pots of new capex in fixing Actually for us, it's a fantastic opportunity to just be really good from a sustainability perspective and then And have that as competitive advantage, but I mean, it's most practically the things I worry about The the dynamic seems to be that people want lower pues zero w ues and to get rid of all the nice refrigerants That used to make those things possible Now that's quite a hard circle to square um because typically The kind of you kind of think of those as things that pop up and down as you push one down The other two kind of pop up and solving all three of them in one step is a really interesting challenge And so I think that that's quite quite a big one And certainly on the refrigerant side. That's really massive because we've benefited from these quite sophisticated refrigerants that enable us to do Lots of really interesting things and have low pues and zero water usage But getting rid of those and replacing them with butane or propane makes zero w e And low pue quite hard So that's an interesting one. And I'm not quite sure anyone's quite Squared that that circle and the other big one that I think no one's really talking about but it's massive Um, and I'm sure Matthew can talk more about it knowledge be the me is the banning of sf6 So you know sf6 essentially is what we have in all of our breakers I know Shido electric have these lovely vacuum breakers that they've solved the problem At least for Shido electric customers But there is a whole bunch of a whole bunch of electrical breakers that Like air plus max shoes as well But they all rely on this gas that's being banned that no one really talking about but that's that's massive, right? So, I mean, you know, think about two things that we care about and data sensors Vector distribution is pretty important and cooling is quite important and both of those really key systems Um are already being penned in in terms of how we design and manage them So, I think that you know, there's a big shot coming frankly for perhaps some Unsophisticated investors who invested in properties that have a you know, kind of headline PUE of 1.3 It meets the objective of their green fund. Um, but oh by the way, it's got really high wwe Um, it's maybe in an area with climate stress Um, and it's got all these breakers for the sf6 that can need to be replaced So there's this this is quite there's quite a lot of capital investment coming I think in the sector Potentially and actually sometimes building replacing the some of this infrastructure in the existing site is significantly more expensive than building a new one So I think the the dynamic that I think is really interesting is how some of the incumbents are going to deal with You know really going to their investors and say actually we've got really significant capital requirements And that's not going to have more capacity. It's not going to make the site operate more efficiently Actually it might increase our PUE But it's going to keep us on the right side of the law. So um, certainly I think that that's a really interesting dynamic And I'm looking forward to see how that one plays out. No, I'm not at one of those large incumbents anymore No, those are interesting points And I mean there's a lot of conversation as well around the the investments into sustainability Um, and how much money was porting to the industry over the last two three years And how some operators are having to to renegotiate Those terms because things have not been achieved Um On what they agreed So that's that there's something that apparently it's happening in the backstage as well And it'll be interesting to see what happens. And if that's going to impact the 2030 goals Of some of for some of the larger players I was going to ask as well. So because I mean we've over of course gone through some of the the upper incoming markets We've gone through sustainability a little bit regulations But then of course ai is the other big words They in 2023 sorry the the world of 2023 really is ai Well two words the fish intelligence How I mean one how do you see ai really affecting the development in a good way the development of data centers Towards secondary locations And what are the trends are you seeing beyond of course in ability power ai is there's something else happening lurking underneath that's driving An operate into a next location Well It's a fascinating topic the ai one I had a breakfast seminar on this Before it hit the press, but let's not kid ourselves ai has been a topic of conversation for 15 course years When I was in the software industry ai was a conversation machine learning was real So this isn't modern day stuff. It's just come up to the surface for everybody The impact for the data center space from a from my perspective what I get fortunate enough to see Is that it's it's writing a new chapter in terms of what it is We're expected to be doing to enable ai To evolve the way that the world seems to want it to go if you follow the trend of the digital economy growth Plug ai into that it's going to be exponential growth as a result of it But it has created a new chapter that we have to all learn to write read and understand that chapter being one where most likely and The the things we're seeing sort of go off faster the milk goes off in the fridge as one of my colleagues reminds me every single day ai is shifting and changing in real time But one of the things I think we're going to see from a location perspective is it used to be location location location with power You know in brackets It's going to become where's the power? Where's the power? Where's the power? And the location actually can be far more flexible for for these big Let's call them mother ships mega gigawatts sites The learning centers where the brains evolve Can pretty much be in the middle of nowhere the inference sites can be back close to your typical Locations, which is going to be a driver for increased demand in your typical locations The third site location. I think this is where it maybe plays nicely into Atlas Edgeshounds Is it we've been looking for a case study for the likes of the edge for a long time? I think that artificial intelligence is only going to give us that that edge case study in A deep way in a meaningful way that the inference sites based out of frankfort Will be very helpful will be necessary to execute whatever the mothership has created But you're going to want that execution getting even closer to the people whether it's through a lamppost in the car Or through an edge data center that might only be 500 kilowatts I only be a megawatt in size, but is servicing an artificial intelligence set of widgets to Porter's head or somewhere else. So it's a fascinating Chapter I think in the data center world and it's one that continues to evolve I'm glad you said it be around for a while, Tom. My master's degree. I finished in Edinburgh in 2003 in machine learning And no one really believed me that I studied it, but now everyone I only did it on my own. There was no practical use of machine learning in 2003 So I agree with everything Tom said. I think there's there's an interesting challenge Which is somewhat subtle in the training is that the workload is very asymmetric So they're kind of used to data centers having fairly consistent workloads, right? And that makes sense if you're investing a ton of capital However, whether you build it yourself or whether you're selling it to someone else You essentially want that capital to be being used, right? You build a ups you want the ups to be under 70% low Now when I train like chat gpt 5 right and a large language models are a bit of a toy Right, there'll be a new machine learning. That's more interesting the large language models But let's call it chat gpt 5. There's a very very high demand for power until there's not right because I finish training and now I don't need it anymore So if I've got a two gigawatt site so I can train my model very quickly There's a very kind of odd asymmetry in that work code So why I disagree with Tom actually is because the hardware that you use for training and inferencing is the same So whilst one could buy a lot of very expensive hardware Have it highly centralized and because we will think about data sensors as being really expensive things But of course actually the expensive thing is what you put inside the data center, right? So if I want my data sensor to be working all the time I sure as hell want my invidia gpu's to be working all the time because they're the real expensive thing So I definitely don't want is to go and build two gigawatts of gpu's in the middle of nowhere Train chat gpt 5 and then have nothing to do So I'm gonna jump in quickly David because it's Take chat gpt. It's a great example because that's just what everybody talks about There's far more artificial intelligence being built behind the scenes that we're not talking about So but take chat gpt to build chat gpt 3 it took 10 000 gpu's nvidia gpu's The projection to build chat gpt 6 and these are for nvidia now the projection in terms of how many gpu's that's going to need Is 10 million 10 000 to 10 million The amount of power that's going to be consumed is going to be in the gigawatts. It's not just going to be for chat gpt From a hardware utilization perspective the same gpu for do inferencing and training right So it what's clear is that inferencing is going to have a much steadier state in terms of workload, right? Because if I have 100 cttv cameras and they're all providing a feed to a gpu and I want to recognize You know someone getting you know mugged in the street, right? Then that that's a constant workload So I know that that workload exists all the time So what might make more sense is rather than doing the training centrally, right? Which also has the challenge of having to move the data to the training which could be really expensive And there's a lot of data that's required to actually use really trainer What might make more sense is to actually distribute training as well, right? Because then the same hardware that's doing the inferencing is also doing the training So rather than having a pool of hardware that sits there doing nothing and I agree with you you could build another model, right? So as long as I've got enough models being built I could fill up my brains and brain creations Honestly, the problem with the answer is a mixture of both of these things are going to happen But there will be some highly centralized hubs and then some smart engineer will find a way I will put a wager with anybody on this call right now that within the next five years Next five years. We are going to see some gigawatts sites for AI You're going to also see plenty of inference expansions around your existing regions around the existing zones And I genuinely think you're going to see The edge at last having a reason and a way to take off bigger than it has to date and that will be The ultra inference at the ultra edge locations. It's necessary Cascade, sorry, Matthew. Go on. I'll let you guys have it. Just to say I don't disagree with any of that, of course I mean, certainly I didn't study machine learning David. So I'd take your expertise on that. That's for sure and really state Tom You're the man, of course Yeah, we're seeing similar and we're hearing similar. We're talking to people having similar conversations You have the large learning models and you have inference, of course I think Some numbers I've seen is the the the training model will be 15 percent of the total demand Actually, the inference will be 85 percent of the total. Whatever the total demand is and by when we, you know It's a bit fuzzy, of course the timing is a little bit fuzzy But I do believe we We will see locations like the Nordics be be leveraged for the Learning models for sure You said David. Yeah, what happens when the the training model is finished? I mean If we've got chat GBT two three four five six, is there a chat GBT 24? I don't I don't know, you know Does it stop or what else comes down the line? We don't know but I think we have seen Or we are hearing that locations like Nordics will be used for learning Models and then the inference David, I'm sure you'll come into play there is a huge opportunity for us It's just when that really starts to hit the ground and when that really starts to take off What it does pose though, you've talked about some of these is technology and design challenges I guess this is um On the mind of schneider electric for example in what technology we need to develop to support These large loads you talk about Nvidia. I was chatting to them a few weeks ago. They've developed a 10 u GPU that is 100 kilowatts of That requires 100 kilowatts of power to mine You put that in a 42. You rack four of them 400 kilowatts now And they're not stopping by the way, but we're not seeing 400 kilowatts at any stretch at the moment, but it's not beyond Uh, the width of man to see maybe up to some people are saying 60 to 80 kilowatts per rack of of demand for these Learning models we need to change the way we design we need to look at the way we design data centers Cooling is going to be a big challenge. And maybe we see the emergence of a really quick cooling, but um, you know Proximities one Technology and design is the other of these data centers for sure. We're going to see we're going to see a little bit of a shift A bit fuzzy We're still all trying to figure out as you can tell by this call where and when I think is the 64 million dollar question I think the design piece is a really valid point you make there Matthew in the sense You know, I look back at the facebook story that we were all horrified to see earlier this year Facebook cancels all these build construction projects And then people suddenly dawn them that you know, they're not cancelling them. They're pausing them and the reason they're pausing Look at redesign and the design piece of this whole conversation is so critical because Yes, you could put rear door cooling You know up to 60 But no no exactly As soon as you get beyond that and I'm stretching it here 40 60 Excuse me. You've got to be looking at, you know, how can you bring water shock horror? How can you bring water into a data center something you'd never talk about five years ago? Today people have got to talk about proper water coming direct to cooling chip But also I mean the the the tier rating of these data centers. I talked to one Hyperscale and no names nothing of course And they're alluding to the fact they are considering what their design looks like in terms of the tier rating for the the learning model data center training data centers Do they need Generators do they need ups? Look, I don't want to say that sort of stuff because we sell ups But you know, it's just a matter of the fact that they're looking at the way they design data centers Do are they mission critical or not? Or are they like Mining data centers exactly You know, there's a lot of considerations that people are looking at in terms of design And the location may support them in the cooling as well. So yeah, Tom I agree with you. It's interesting. Yeah, I think I agree with typical We we say three three plus whatever tier 80 that is that's the mission critical side of the application Yeah, and I mean I agree with everything you said and I was actually at a conference in Toronto a few weeks ago And this was exactly one of the main topics of discussion and there was so much discussion about several operators Not even just hyperscale even smaller than hyperscalers They have had to change the designs within six months of them being designed And they went back into the engineering board the architecture board Just to to really redevelop them to to be able to to fit in all the new equipment and what's coming and I think Tom what you were saying about the five years I think it's going to be probably the lesson that to be honest for the gigawatt scale Facilities, there's one already being built which will be announced soon Which I will have the exclusive on that one. So they'll be I'll give more of that But At the present it is I think things will probably shift a little bit Over the next five ten years, but it is and I think the Nordics is quite interesting because it is really coming through a second coming Um, but but guys, thank you so much for talking to me David Matthew and and tom That's what we have time for today. Unfortunately It is this good last it could be a days on end conversation But on behalf of the speakers, I would like to thank everyone for tuning in either here here on linkedin youtube x or jsa.net Our next session will take place in the week's time on november the 8th at 3 p.m UK time and we'll delve into the sustainability energy hubs of europe and green data center development Make sure you visit our linkedin page to sign up for november the 8th and with that We wrap up today's conversation look out for the playback of the session coming soon to jsa tv youtube linkedin X and more from me and the team at jsa europe happy networking


I'm just checking on. She sent me a question mark, so I said, well baby, you okay?  I'm child-like, not childish.  Who the f**k are you?  I'm Rick, and you follow us on Instagram and Twitter. Is that childish? Yes. We're reacting to a funeral speech. You wanted to take it to a place where it was going to be something auspicious. We're reacting to the most sacred of Hindu songs. Yeah, lies and propaganda. Anyways, today we're actually reacting to an A.R. Ramon interview with Leighton, the prodigy piano player, the kid. Apparently they sat down and had a little chat, sweet, and talk, so I'm guessing A.R. Ramon is probably one of his idols. Well, I would assume. Me too. I don't know for sure. You think they're going to talk about music? Here we go. So Leighton, he's believing already. I'm feeling really good on this. It's not ordinary job, right? Actually, there was contestants from 195 countries, and there's only one winner, and I won. Your age actually paid a good factor, and of course you're an extraordinary talent. You're playing drums when I first met you. I think the first time I met you was in Kavita level audio release. Yeah, yeah, thanks. And then you came to KM, I didn't know about the story. Tell me about it.  And then I joined KM for Tabla. Tabla, and I studied for like six months. And then I was very impressed with it. So you came and lived in this room? Yeah. You lived and you saw Charity's students playing? Yes, so that was awesome. And I asked my dad to join this Russian piano, and I got him trusted in the piano. So I started to play piano, and I started to learn under Chatterjee master. Wow, great.  Yeah. What do you want to talk about? He's a very great teacher, piano teacher. He not only teaches piano, but he teaches all the emotions and how to play. And he often tells that piano should sing, so like that very much. And when he plays, I really admire him. And he plays with a lot of fields, so he's a great master. And he plays in the Russian style, so I really like this. Great. So it's just the learning from here. When I started KM, I started as an inspirational institute. Because in a place where there's no nurturing Western music, we have our own amazing tradition of Indian classical music. And we were nurturing. Because film music needs Western music, notation, harmony, everything. I felt the need of starting something like that.   And for all of us Indians, Chennaiites. So, Tani, what do you do, and how long do you practice? I practice five to six hours a day. Five to six hours. And no PlayStation? Not sure. No PlayStation? No PlayStation? No, I don't know. That is why you're winning. No PlayStation, rather playing piano. Okay. So, another thing that's very important is, you know, because even I started at the same age, we should not miss on sports. And we should not miss on the kind of conscious about it. But practicing like that is very, very important. I think we are all learning from you to be so passionate. Because in the world of distractions, you know, today all the kids are distracted. And your father, your family, and you have just focused on music. Focused on, you know, becoming extraordinary in what you're doing. And so it's a great example. You set a great example for our, you know, generation, our future generation. Not only music in many things, just to be focused. Because we have so much of, I'm repeating it again because so much of distraction. Instagram, Facebook, Twitter, this, that, Netflix, movies. And a ton of things which comes, and then what you got and what you achieved is because of this undivided attention. Tell me more about your father. My father is a musician and he plays flute and he composes and he also sings and he plays keyboard. And he sacrificed a lot of things for me. Like he always cares about me and also my sister. And he teaches me more and he also advises me a lot of things. Like how to, like, you know, how to be. So when you played, what did you prepare for the world's best? When you went, what were your expectations? My expectations, I just practiced the flight of the bumblebee for the first episode and I went. And I had, honestly, I had no plans. So after going there and depends upon situationally, I planned and practiced everything. So you learned all those pieces, you mentioned the pause and everything? Yes, I know the tune. And after going there, I learned the arrangements and everything. How long were you taking that? Learning one piece like half an hour. Half an hour. And then they suggested something for you? Yes, they also suggested. And when they said you can go whatever you want. I think the presence of mind is very, very important. Going there and going with a very open mind and learning to adapt, that I think is what I appreciate. You can practice something, you can prepare. But at that point, what will click and what your brain thought would work, that is amazing. That's why you won. You know, anybody can learn, work hard. But you need presence of mind, you need a gift to understand what is necessary, what to talk. And even your interviews, you've really spoken very well. Thank you. What do you want to do in future? What do you want to become? I want to become a music composer for Hollywood. Good. You know, you're talking to the right man right there. I want to be the moon and play the moon. That I saw. Just moon, not Jupiter, Mars and beyond that. Yeah, also that. I personally feel becoming a composer is very good. And I think beyond Hollywood is what you should think. Hollywood is fine. It's not the ultimate destination in music. Because movies are made for the masses. And sometimes they force you to become something which you're not. They'll force you to, you know, they'll give you music and say that you sound like this. Your identity is very, very important. From now, if you get an identity, they will follow you. You don't have to follow them. It's good advice. And in my opinion, I should not be forceful about it. If you're a musician, I feel like you are like an aspiring ambassador for Indian music, for Indians. And what Lang Lang did for China, you know. Then you will see Lang Lang play the piano. You will see that China, the amount of respect China gets. Through Lang Lang, his music, his musicality and his persona. And I think you should become that for India. Yeah, I should.  As a... As a concept pianist. As something taking musical to the pinnacle, you know, that kind of energy. And not be limited, not only with film music. Of course you can do it. But then film music is a trap anyway.  You should think of the future. You don't think about what is present. Future will open to you. Thank you. As a start, I would like to do for Hollywood animation movies. Yes. Actually, I... I think it's an art. And you can learn that. It's very simple. And I think the way you're learning is really perfect. I think the way you go deep into things and being it can be done. But it should not limit you to just a composer. Because you're an amazing performer. You've proved that to the world. You're the world's best now. So, play. Expectations are now... Every step has to be careful. You have to go beyond. After the world's best? Yeah. Practice and learn more. Yeah, that's true. I think you have your father to guide you. You have a great family. And very, very important thing is... If a family is integrated, they're functional. I think it helps people like you to shine. Your family is your support. Emotionally, they are the backbone for you. I can see that. And that's very, very important. When a kid needs to come up in life, I feel like watching your family is a beautiful experience. How your father, your mother, your sister, all of you together in music and aspired for higher things. And my tips would be to be very careful. Because now it's only 13. When you're 16, there will be a lot of distractions. And of course, I think the way you are shaping up your future is great. And I hope, just like how you've been now, just constantly on what you need to achieve. And all the rest of the things, it doesn't matter. And find... In my goal of life, after getting all this international awards and everything, my goal was to see what I can inspire. And because you see the world, there's war. There's this thing, there's negativity. There is so much of negative things. And you are beyond that. So you are like a shining star. You can tell the world that there's something beyond. Look up to higher ideals, excellence, and beauty, love. So you brought all that stuff to us. Right? Do you believe all that? Without really knowing, of course. And so when we see you, we see hope. We see there's still beauty in life. We see there's still magic in life, miracles in life.  Thank you so much. Definitely, you need to be set to stage for the game from now on. Super sweet. Yeah, you could definitely tell. Obviously, he's an admirer of Ereman. Of course. Can you not be? Of course. But you can also tell that Ereman, this is not his arena. No. Either. It's kind of like watching most directors do something like this. Correct. They're not all, but most, they're very behind the camera people. And many actors. Yeah. They're not very personable. No. They're just really good at their job. Correct.  They can do it obviously. And I thought he did a really good job. Yeah, he did. He gave some great advice. But yeah, how long would it take you to memorize a... Okay. So like Flight of the Bumblebee, I would, you know, knowing that song in advance. I've already got it in my head. Flight of the Bumblebee would take me and again, it would just be by ear because if I tried to read the notation on it, I wouldn't forget it. That would take me the better part of probably, if I did two to three hours a day, would probably take me five days to get that. Micah? Probably get it within an hour. Micah's a freak. No. Yeah. Micah, Micah, literally one of Micah's favorite things to do would be dad name any song. And if he knows the song, like I could say, okay, do, uh, start playing. It's a little bit funny. He starts playing in the key. This feeling inside. I'm not one of those. Again, have you heard this song before? Have you done this Micah? No. And he would know it. He'd just start playing it. Yeah. Oh, one of those ears. One of those ears. And obviously this young man is just, just off the charts gifted, but you can see the discipline in his work. Yeah. And I, I do hope, um, it was funny. I found it to be really great that, uh, Air Ramon was dissuading him from being a composer of scores. And then the very next thing that came out of his mouth was, so I want to do scores for animation. Yeah. And so I, I do, you know, of course be open to other possibilities, but I can see in that young man, I think since his earliest thoughts, it's been, I want to score motion pictures in Hollywood and I want to do animated film. Yeah.  Go for it. Go for it. Everybody actually wants to do it. Yeah. And I don't think this is the case. I'm just, it's always your hope when you see a kid that they do what they actually want to do. Right. As opposed to the parents pushing because that's where they're, all their money has gone. Right. Or they have a vision for the kid. Yeah. I'm not saying that's what, what's happening. I'm just opening, you know, I don't know them. So I'm just hoping. Yeah. No. This child, if that's where the avenue he wants to go, he goes that way. If he wants to go into gymnastics and when he's 18, go. Exactly. Yeah. He might at 18 go, you know what? I'm not interested in it anymore. I don't think he will. I don't think he will. I think we're going to see a lot of this young man. Yeah. I think he'd be a very talented composer. I see, I see in him the passion for the art form that isn't going, and the giftedness of combined. So he's not going anywhere. Yeah. Yeah. Every video we've seen of him has been one incredible. Delightful. The dual pianos. Insane. And then get to talk to your idol as well. Aira Ramon, we'd love to talk to you. We would love to talk to you. No, this is not, this is not like a preview. I have no connection to Aira Ramon.  This isn't a hint. I have no connection to Aira Ramon. But if any of you do and would like to send them our way. We would love to speak to them. Man, am I just talking an hour about Jai Ho? No. Yeah, that was a joke everybody. So Jai Ho, tell me all about it. Although that was a great song. Have you done anything other than slumdog?  If there's more videos of Leighton that we need to see. Yeah. Please send them our way. And obviously I remind them. I don't need to tell you that. Here we go. Thank you.


We went out to the page, you gave Cindy these jelly beans, one of the light-full pictures that we had. We were bent over because she was only ten at the time. It's a great picture. You get to roll. I'd like to give you this. We were sitting at the page, and one of the things I did in my days was take a lot of photos. Well, thank you very much. We used to have this. There's some. It's more fettled. Yes, we've so far gotten up to the foreign minister's settings, a few of his regrets, sorrowful. I think we've had the final word now. It's twenty-eight big men up there in the bound, asleep in their bunks. By the way, look, we've got many people waiting for you at the front. Senior Rome. Thank you very much. Thank you very much. Send it down to Fiji. Okay. All right. They're all over. Well, we'll do it once again. It says Trudy. Ambassador Raifel. Yes, the president's so good to see you again. Good to see you again. Hope to get you out there on a business. Well, it's nice to see you. My daughter Stephanie. Hello. My sister. And my brother. The National Headliners Award. I need 76. And most importantly, my mother. My father's buried. Hello. See you. Hello. Why don't we gather in a group and family picture? Oh, great. Stand back here. Okay. Well, this is wonderful. I got your picture now. That's terrific. Anyone's looking right here. Thank you very much. Now we have for the Sudanese group. We want you to forget us. Mother and the outside. Thanks for you. Father and brother. Sister-in-law and the daughter and the nurse. Thank you for what you do. I'm giving Pakistan. What's your best for you. One day to see that order of peace. Absolutely. Come back and see the great peace go home again. Great way to do it. Thank you again, Mr. President. Thank you. You would have been very proud of on this speech today. I've accepted things in those風, I think you're happy on this speech. Well. Thank you. You know, it's great to see the sweet little. Thank you very much. Yes, thank you very much. Yes, Mr. President, I'm very pleased to be here. We're pleased to meet you. Thank you.  Hello there. I see you. My son, Jeffrey. Hi. My daughter, Lauren. I see you. My daughter in law, Delis. My son-in-law, Kb. My son, Jeremy. My son, Jeremy. My son, and his field-safe. Hello there. Well, I think we don't want to assemble here or not. And we're going to have to see how I can assemble here. We're going to assemble here down this side. Is that all right? We're about to. We need to get one more on this side. Blair, go over there. And squeeze together. Squeeze together. Yeah, squeeze together. Why'd I go there? Thank you, sir. I have some souvenirs in my chest, Mrs. Crickler. Thank you very much. This is for the daughter of the daughter-in-law and the fiancée. I'm one of them. Thank you. And the fiancée is a fiancée. These four are the sons and... Fiancée. Fiancée, yes. Keepers. Keepers. Thank you. Well, the souvenirs will see them happy. Thank you very much. We're very honored, Mr. President. We sit down on your behalf. We're pleased that you do it. We leave Saturday. Saturday. She said, yeah, we can't leave it. We'll think of you. We'll think of you. I've been there for several weeks. I was present for your first international visitor you came up with. That was a great barbecue. Great event. Yes. He's still wearing the jacket. Jackets? I'm very proud of my closet. That's right. I'm riding a horse that he gave me. Marvellous. And I can keep it because I was president-elect and not yet president.  Is it a Camp David? No, it's the reaction camp. It's real better. Enjoying it very much. He said, Anglo-Arabic, they call it, cross between the federal government and the region. When our president from Somalia visits will bring you a camel. Just say no. Just say no. Well, good luck. Thank you very much. Yes, hello, President. How's this? What are you doing? Celebrating fifty-fifty weddings. How nice of you. Hello. Hello. Well, why don't we get a family picture? Thank you. Thank you. Is this right? Yes. Thank you very much. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you very much. I'll be the envy of the gardenflow. Thank you for doing this. Thank you very much. Bring your greetings from Liberia. I've been out there. I'll come back. I asked to be remembered. Please, last decision. I'm very busy at that point. Please do a big show. Thank you. What they call him? President, Senator Phillips. Yes, how do you do, Senator? Good to see you. Thank you very much, sir. Well, listen, thank you for what you're doing. I appreciate it very much. It's a great honor for me to serve you and the group like that. And just want to assume that you won't forget us. Thank you very much, Mr. Frederick. I know I certainly need to see you right now. I'm going to Paraguay. Paraguay? Yes. President, Ambassador Taylor. Yes, hello there. President, I'll let you see you in one second. Your first kiss. Okay. Okay. Hello, Mr. Brach, and culture. So you got it for me? My son, Mark, how do you do? I'm a department student. Maybe somebody come over. Sure. I'm excited to move. Okay, thank you. Well, now we, just superiors here, can hear you forgetting it's a keeper. This is my own business. It's a pleasure. I appreciate it very much what you're doing. It's a pleasure to serve you. Mr. Fields. Yes, Mr. President. Nice to meet you. Nice to meet you. I'd like to introduce you to my wife. Mr. President, it's my pleasure. I'll let you get in the middle of the picture. Thank you very much. Well, thank you for what you're doing.  Thank you. I can't forget you. It's good California. It's been following you for a long time. Thank you, Mr. President. Thank you. Ambassador Ron. Yes, hello there. If you get in the middle of nowhere, we'll have a family picture. Mr. President's doing great. I'm most grateful to you. Well, thank you very much. I want you to forget it. We just got the little superiors. Thank you so much. Thank you very much. Thank you very much. Thank you very much, Mr. President. Good seeing you. Welcome back. Welcome back. Mr. Ambassador, how are you? I've been here very long. Certainly. You can be sure that we do our best to make your task easier and also to smooth the path as far as possible on a matter that we know is a very genuine concern to you, which we surely respect. Our Prime Minister had asked me to deliver to you a letter on the subject and I should say a few words about it. I think our resolve to not to break the pledge with regard to the manufacture building, constructing of a nuclear bomb will be preserved will be preserved as much in our interest as in the interest of both our countries. Also for moral reasons and also there are material reasons for not doing so. Nor will we embarrass you in any way. There can be no question of our testing a nuclear device. We know that that would mean the end or the completed jeopardy seriously. A relationship which we consider as focal and central to our bilateral relations with you, Mr. President, have so painfully and so assiduously to our lasting gratitude to build up and construct. Mr. President, Vice-Chairman Yang. Yes. Sorry. Sorry. I'm very glad to meet you. I'm very glad to meet you. Thank you. Thank you. Mr. President, Mr. President, Mr. President, I'm very happy to meet you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Please welcome you on your first trip here. Experienced as I think of visits of the senior of the interest of both our countries, of the world peace. I know that you previously met Vice President Bush in Manila and Secretary of Defense in Beijing. I suppose I couldn't be here today, but I hope you'll make new friends here in the United States. I know that you have met Vice President Bush in Manila and in Beijing. Yes. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. Nancy and I have many fond memories of our visit to your country in 1984, and please give our warmest greetings to Chairman Dunn and Premier Xiao. Thank you. And I'm pleased with the good state of our relations. We're working hard together, I know, in Afghanistan and Cambodia, and we're cooperating in many areas, some known to all, and some more private. I hope we can continue to do so, but I'm now going to turn to you, because I know you must have an agenda, and I should quit talking and turn it over to you.


Okay, so let's try another one of these Jericho-Primer questions. This one asks, which one of these structures depicts trans-isomer and which ones depict a cis-isomer? Okay, so let's just go through each one and see which ones are trans and which ones are cis. Okay? There's all one-two diamethylcyclohexane, some isomer of that. So let's go ahead and draw the bond line form of cyclohexane. In fact, I think this is the easiest way to go about doing this, is that you just depict this form on a bond line form, okay, because it's easier to see. But anyway, so what I'll do is I'll label this top right atom, always, that top right carbon is one, and then go around the ring, one, two, three, four, five, six, like that. And so let's just go ahead and do that with all of them. And like I said, I label this one as one and go to the right, like a claw. So those are the two atoms we're going to be putting the metal groups on, and we'll just depict which ones are cis and which ones are trans now, okay? So whenever I have an axial on this one position, I'll put it facing towards me. So that means that the equatorial is the H there, and it is back. So here this is axial, this metal is axial, but it's pointed down, right? The H is actually pointed up there, so the metal is down. So in this case it's back. So if I were to take this and turn it, this metal would be poking me in the eye, but the other metal would be away from me. So in fact, A in this case is trans. So let's do B now. So it's the same general molecule, we just got a different stereoisomer of it. So here in this case we've got the hydrogen as the axial, so the hydrogen would be pointing towards us. So in that case the metal is pointing away from us, and here hydrogen is down axial. So whenever the point is up, that means the axial is up. Whenever the point is down, the axial is down. So the methyl group here, since the hydrogen is down, the methyl group has to be up. So like that. So that one is trans. So the first two are trans, which is interesting because we have a 1-2 axial, axial relationship in the trans and a 1-2 equatorial-equatorial relationship in the trans, and you'll see that. So this one is axial-equatorial, and this one's equatorial and axial, and probably you've already predicted that they're going to both be cis, but let's just go ahead and show that. So there's our cyclohexane ring. Remember at 1, if it's axial, it's pointed up on our cyclohexane ring and wedge. Hydrogen is down and equatorial. Hydrogen is down and axial here, so the methyl is up, so hydrogen. So since this is up, so this is up-axial, this is up-equatorial, it's going to be cis. So c is cis, and in fact this one's cis, but while this one just flipped over like that, you want to think about it that way, or this one ring flipped, and if you want to think about it that way, that's what's happening here between the two isomers like that. And on both of them, well, this one is going to be much more favorable to go that way, because we've got two equatorials here, and here we've got two axioles, but this one, neither one of them is more favorable. So let's just go ahead and finish this off. Hydrogen is up, so that means the methyl is down. So here we've got one axial, one equatorial, one axial, one equatorial, so neither one of them is more stable than the other one. So hopefully that solves all of your conformational chair isomer questions.