From Palo Alto, California, it's Cube Conversations with John Furrier. Hello everyone, welcome to a special Cube Conversation here in Palo Alto, California. I'm John Furrier, the co-founder of SiliconANGLE Media and also co-host of theCUBE. Our special guest here is Grant Fondo, who's with Goodwin. He's a legal expert in blockchain, initial coin offerings, also known as ICOs, experienced federal prosecutor and former assistant U.S. attorney in Northern District, California, head of the blockchain group at Goodwin. A lot of legal action going on. Welcome to this Cube Conversation. Thank you, John, nice to be here. Thanks for coming in. Goodwin, you guys are a great firm, well-known in the Valley, helping entrepreneurs meet the track record of Goodwin. It's pretty significant. Been familiar with Anthony McCusker and the team over there. You guys are doing a lot of work. I've been asking around all Silicon Valley because we're hot on the ICO trail ourselves, blockchain we've been following, covering extensively, Bitcoin going back to 2010. It's a hot market, it's very frothy. But in asking around, I'm like who was doing the legal work? So a lot of people are kicking the tires now or now getting their toe in the water, want to explore blockchain, want to explore the notion of cryptocurrencies. Take a minute to talk about Goodwin, what you guys are doing because you guys have a lot going on. We do. And there's a lot of issues to talk about. We're going to get to that. What are you guys doing? Take a minute to talk about Goodwin. Sure, so we've been involved in this space for three and a half years now probably. I got involved, I was a former federal prosecutor, as you mentioned. So I got involved in the regulatory side, represented a company in a DOJ and FinCEN settlement and prior to that, kind of that took off my interest in it. I thought this area was fascinating and the amount of talent and energy in this area is tremendous. So that's what launched my initial interest. And then from there, we've represented a couple of other companies in significant regulatory matters, but we're also very actively involved in the startup. I mean, that's kind of Goodwin's bread and butter. And so particularly in the FinTech and blockchain space, we've been doing it for a while and so now what we've really seen probably over the last eight months is just a tremendous growth and interest in the token sales. You referred to him as the ICOs. And so we're probably doing representing 20 to 30 companies at various stages from just initial concept to launches. Yeah, one of this personal observation and we were talking before when you went on camera here is that I've seen a lot of waves in my time and the cloud computing, I thought that cloud intersecting with data and mobile was going to be on run. But I see blockchain is really one of those disruptive. Reminds me of the early days of the web where it truly was the Wild West and it is kind of happening.  This is essentially a rush onto the marketplace because with cryptocurrencies, with decentralization and people experiencing distributed computing, it's changing business models. So people are making a lot of cash, if you will, on the raising money side. So people are going there. So there's a lot of people migrating into the space not without some uncertainties. What are the issues? I mean, cause on one hand it's a scam, people say and some people say it's legit. Where is it? Where's the difference between the two? So I think in many industries, especially new industry, there's uncertainty. And I know the attention goes to the scams, but I think that's really the minor, very minor component of it. What you're seeing is a lot of good companies with great ideas who have developed a new model to develop their platforms. And part of what you saw in digital currency that people loved early on and that you're seeing in blockchain and now you're seeing in the token sales is the democratization of their industries and their platforms. And so they're allowing, you see all these marketplaces being created and tokens is a way to facilitate that. Not only in the context of obviously raising money but also providing a platform for people to participate on that platform. And so it's been fascinating. And so... And a lot of smart people are getting involved too. You're seeing a lot of big brains getting in and also entrepreneurs that know how to hustle. That's why I kind of call it the early days of the wild west of the blockchain. Is there any pattern that you're seeing? What is the catalyst in your opinion? What's driving all this? Besides the new way to finance or a new way to provide value? I think there's a couple things. One is the interest in the blockchain and the greater understanding. Even now more mainstream. You know, eight months ago, it was really more crypto people doing the token sales now. We were getting calls from all aspects of industry. And so, and some very conservative, historically conservative ones. And so what I think what people are seeing is this blockchain technology is really here to stay. It's really transformative technology. And it's technology that applies to so many different industries. It's not just a crypto technology. It's a technology for everybody. And it also allows so many different participants and transparency. And so people are really fascinated by it. And they're using the token sales in part to help build that industry. Grant, I got to ask you the number one question that I get in the one thing that I think about a lot in our businesses. What's the playbook? Take us through a day in the life of what's going on a good win. As you guys are dealing with people knocking on the doors saying, hey, help us. Now you've been kind of pivoted to blockchain from natural extension where you've come from, great, great position to be in because it's a natural place. But this is a first time market. There's new things that are emerging, new use cases. What is the playbook? What are people knocking on the door saying, help me with how do I get this implemented blockchain or an ICO? Is there a playbook that you've seen that's working? And what's, well, the pitfalls should be avoided. Sure. So, I mean, there's a couple initial decisions that you have to make. And one is, the question we often get is that people are trying to stay within the boundaries. The problem is the boundaries are still very uncertain. And so you try and work with a brand new technology and a brand new concept with regulatory regimes that are a little bit older and not quite built for it. And so part of that, part of what the initial questions are when people call us is how do we fit what you want to do within the frameworks and try and minimize any risk? Because in any business there's risk, but the smart thing to do is try to minimize it. And nobody who calls us is trying to scam anyone. They're trying to do this launch a fantastic business, one that will be truly disruptive in their industry. And so one of the things we first deal with is jurisdictional issues. Where do we set up companies? And so do we set up, people have this common perception, if I just set up a corporation abroad, will I be fine? And that's not the answer. And so you set up corporations and entities that make sense for that business, where the people are located. The executive team is based here in the US. That changes the dynamic. We also get a lot of foreign companies to call. So there's a lot of decisions about where does this company get set up? So this is almost like going back to business school one-on-one, where you domicile or where you start the corporation, what entity it is, and then a lot of paper that goes on. But I want to step back and talk about some of the distinctions that are nuanced or actually specific, if you will. The notion of utility versus securities, concept that's well known in business, but as it applies to blockchain, those are specific nuances, aren't they, in how the regulatory market looks at blockchain? Can you explain? What that means and how people should think about utility versus security? So I break it down in two kind of examples. A typical utility token would be, remember when there were arcades, and you would go in an arcade, and you'd stick the token into space invaders or whatever the game may be, and there's still arcades out there. So that's a utility token. Does that token have some utility on the platform? Is it doing something on the platform? That's what the model is, so that it's essentially people avoid some of the regulatory hurdles with a security. Conversely, a security is as you think about it. Typically Silicon Valley was built on companies selling parts of themselves for equity and people buying into the company and getting stock. And so you're trying, most token sales are trying to avoid being turned to security where someone is getting an interest in the company, an interest in the profits, control over the company, and instead what the model's based is on this utility token. The test is called a Howie test, and it's basically, if you hit certain criteria, you end up being a security. If you don't, hopefully you stay in the token regime. And so it's really, and the way to best do that is you build a token that truly makes sense on your platform, that people can use it to build, to transact, to exchange goods, to build ideas. And they're not running the company, they're just using that token in a sense, much like an arcade token. So it's not like a secure, like a stock, there's no stock option plan, there's no token plan. If you can't think about it that way, is that what you're saying? Yeah, well, so you raise a very interesting issue because there have been some companies that have set up tokens, like vesting over time, that tend to, or tokens for employees, or tokens for advisors, and I think there's a risk that the SEC says, wait a minute, that looks a little bit like an option, or a security. So one of the things we advise is do not set up token plans, or vesting token plans, because that may be an indicia for the SEC to say, hey listen, that's a security. Well, again, I want to get this to drill down on the whole government, because it's still going to be some things are coming down the pike, and is it also a global phenomenon? So it's interesting jurisdictional questions, I want to get to that in a second, but just to stay on the security piece, one you mentioned earlier that most of the blockchain activity around ICOs are around disruptive, or democratization, I think you used the word, but really it's disruption of markets. So one of the areas we're seeing is the brave browser with the bat token that's disrupting kind of the web browser kind of thing, or the user experience. Steam does like kind of a Reddit kind of clone. And there's a variety of other ones. We've seen some all over the place in different verticals. And then there's one with democratizing venture capital. Yes. So we've seen some activity around folks who are using cryptocurrency to invest in companies. Talk about the dynamics between those two approaches, and mainly the funding one, is it still kind of Wild West undefined, or how does that work? So I think initially it was Wild West. You had basically crypto people investing in companies and buying these tokens. Now what you're seeing is the VCs are smart people.  They're successful for a reason. And they're aggressive in the sense of they're not afraid to take risk. And they're constantly on the move for new ideas. So VCs are investing in crypto. So now you're seeing, I think there's a lot of interest. I'm getting a lot of calls about can we present, VC fund will ask and will I come in and present and kind of walk through the token process. What are the risks? I get a lot of calls from investors, more sophisticated traditional investors, hedge funds about what is, what are the risks here? How do we invest? How do we minimize our risk? And it's a new paradigm, but it's a paradigm that I think the traditional financing vehicles are paying a lot of attention to now. So it's still an open book at this point, not truly defined, but there is activity. What is the entrepreneur's perspective? But what's that side of the table look like? Because they are looking at this and certainly they're all in there jumping in with the ICOs. How are the entrepreneurs looking at it? And how should they deal with these new progressive investors? So the entrepreneurs are looking at it, quite frankly, as an alternative to VC and loans. And I think that they view it in part as it's a quicker and easier way to raise money, in a sense, but also that there are potentially less strings attached. And I think there's some truth to that, but I think one of the key components is when you raise that money and you apply it, you have to do it in a truthful honest manner and you can't mislead people. You need to be pretty, pretty forecoming about your disclaimers and things like that. So it's not an unattached raise, in a sense. You just have to be careful about that. But I think they're viewing it as, as any entrepreneur you're always probing for what's new. How do I get best get to what I need to do to achieve and have a chance with my business? And they're saying this is a great alternative. All right, so I got to ask the tough question and that is some entrepreneur perspective. This sounds like it's going to cost me a lot of dough to get this done. What are the fees like?  Is it the financing kind of model? I mean, we're talking about hundreds of thousands of dollars. It sounds like there's a lot of work. It's getting first-time work going on. The leverage and the economies of scale aren't there yet. You guys are doing a lot of work. So you're getting there, but I would imagine that the fees would be enormous. So I think it depends on what type of token sale you do. If you do an unaccredited token sale, which is the majority of them, fees are a lot less. If you do accredited, it's a little bit more. But I think there's a couple different components. There's not only legal. And the legal can be, there's, I mean, you can get sort of the Mercedes version of, we'll write you 10 memos about the following, but I don't think that's, most entrepreneurs don't take that approach, with some reason, because the memos are never gonna say, whatever you do is perfect. So I don't typically recommend that. But so the fees are probably not as much as you would think. I think where the fees start to escalate is, there's a lot of different components to this. One of the fascinating things about digital currency blockchain and now token sales is there's so many components to it. And so for the entrepreneur, it's not only the legal, which I think they'll find is actually one of the least expensive parts of that process. But getting tax advice. So it's, you're bringing in all these token sales. You really need good tax advice to make sure that you're maximizing your tax benefits when you do it. That can get expensive. And the tax issue as could be significant because I'm sure even the government doesn't figure it out. Is it revenue or is it investment? So is it revenue or is it, I mean, how does the tax treatment? I think the IRS would look at it as revenue. Okay, so this frame, I kind of had a loaded question. I was kind of smiling there, but I want to go into the next question on that point because I think this brings up the next one is, how do I organize my company? Because, you know, I'm scared to get sued. I don't want to get put out a bizzare scene. Robert Scoble say on Facebook, I'm doing an ICL all of a sudden, like almost like a legal term. I'm not advising that company anymore. So someone must have coached him like, hey, if you get involved, you're promoting it. So people don't know where the lines are anymore on what was old kind of test standards. You can't promote it, an offering. Is it revenue, gray area? So people are organizing outside the US. Yes. What's the best practice of a company that says, hey, I want to do an ICO, what do I do? So I don't think there's a best practice. I think you have, because every company is different. I think there are, but there are road, there are guideposts. And so I think if the biggest guidepost is, where are you located? If your team is in the US and you want to get you, and or you want to get US dollars, you have to assume you're going to be regulated by the US regulatory regime. So you have to deal with that reality. And then so you structure things differently. So then the next question is, are you going after accredited or unaccredited token purchasers? And so then, most people want to do unaccredited. So then the measure of protection is okay, is our token truly utility? You and I talked about that a few minutes before. And so that's sort of the threshold issues. If you're going abroad, you really have to be completely abroad, meaning no US money, no US executive team, the companies abroad, the businesses abroad, et cetera. Because the US takes very, US regulators, not as a former prosecutor, they take a very broad view. So they'll see right through that, that, that mirage. They'll see right through it. If there's any impact in the US, they have jurisdiction over and they'll, and if some, if US people have been harmed, they will take notice. So there's no real kind of way you can get around that. How about the Cayman Islands? Certainly that's a contrast in Panama. Been a lot of issues there. I mean, what is Cayman Islands an option or? So the Cayman Islands, it's a great question. The Cayman Islands is a great option for tax purposes. So a lot of token sales are being run out of the Cayman Islands because of the tax benefits. It's not a regulatory protection in my view, unless you happen to be all abroad and you're not seeking US money. But usually it's primarily set there for the tax purposes. All right, let's talk about the regulatory issues. Because this is still, we've heard, it's pretty much, again, the Wild West we said, there's been a rush and there's been rumors that the SEC and the federal government's going to be putting things in place at the end of this year, maybe early next year, the timetable seems to be shifting. It's a moving train. What is the concern on regulatory and how is that impacting people in the blockchain ICO market? Because it seems to be like a rush. Get out before you can be grandfathers. Has there been any statements of grandfathers? That's a big area. What's going on there? So I think what you see is about two weeks, two, three weeks ago, the SEC came down and issued some guidance. And I say that with a little bit of a grain of salt because I don't think it was a tremendous amount of guidance, but there's a couple of takeaways.  That's not news, but that's fine. The second component, which I thought was in many ways was very interesting was they said, they implied that some token sales are not securities, which we always believed, but it was a nice tacit concession. A utility, yes. So not all token sales are securities and therefore they are utility. And that's where the battleground is. What was frustrating about, or let me one other aspect too, was they mentioned the term participants. So if they believe that a token sale is a security, not only will they necessarily go after the company, but they will go after participants of that token sale. Like potentially VCs or investors? Well, I think it's an open question what participants mean. Historically, if you look at securities, and I used to do securities litigation and I do insider trading and things like that, participants would be like investment banks, for example. So if there's a pseudo investment bank involved, and I think they would view that term broadly, because it's typically not investment banks and token sales. But the SEC might say, listen, you are a participant. You benefited, you helped launch the sale, et cetera. So I think for participants, there's potential risk as well. But they really did leave the, they left the door open for the token. They're not hardcore, they're not, so it sounds like they're giving some guidance like, hey, we're watching you, but we're going to let this thing play out a little bit more and let the professionals kind of deal with it. I think it's two things. One is, I think they said historically, those that launched earlier, we're probably going to let that pass as long as you didn't commit fraud. That's sort of my read on it. And then the second component is that we are watching you and you're unnoticed now. So don't cross that line. So you brought up the investment bankers. I mean, I salivate when I see this whole opportunities out there because you think about the traditional IPO process, not to compare ICOs to IPOs, but there is a serious bunch of cash coming in. I mean, a couple of these ICOs pulled in over $200 million. That's some serious cabbage as we would say back east. So this is significant. Is there like rules on market making, what you can say, how you promote it? I know there's a Reg D and there's like this A plus stuff going on out there. I'm not an expert in that area. I'd love to get your thoughts on how should people watch the lines on how this gets done? Are there market makers? There are certainly sites that promote ICOs. How is all that playing out? Is there, can you share some insight on that? Sure, so for, if you're doing a utility sale and your position is that you're not a security, general advice is you should not be marketing your token as an investment opportunity that our token's going to go up in value. You don't want to be publicizing like here's a great way to make money by our token. That's not, that looks like a security. You mentioned Reg D. So Reg D relates to accredited investors in the US. And generally the rules are you can't publicize your token sale if you're targeting accredited investors. So likewise, you shouldn't be putting things on your website targeting all types of people. So that's where people will get in trouble. I think the area that for entrepreneurs like Silicon Valley is so social media focused, right? Between Reddit, Twitter, et cetera. There's a lot of promotion going on. And the nice things about a lot of these token sales is they're building these communities. It's a fascinating area, but the downside of these communities and these constant communications is you have to be very careful with your language. So when you have these Reddit community hosts that are helping you with your launch, for example. To be very careful what you say, you can't in any way imply that you're trying to raise, the tokens will go up in value or trying to protect the value of the tokens. So you have to be very careful. That's a tough thing. I'd better delete my Facebook post. I just posted two days ago. Well, let's get started. So the utility is the key. I think I would see and envision more utility deals going down because this is where the infrastructure changes happening. I think that's phenomenal. I think there'll be arbitrage on the security side, just my personal experience and opinion. However, that is the key. If I'm a utility token, what is the language I should use? So avoid selling it as a security, so we're using language. What's safe? What would be safe? If we're doing a utility token sale, what's safe language? Can I say, hey, get your coins, join our platform? Do I market it like software? Do I market it like a technology? I think you market like a token at arcade in a sense. And it's a simplification, but I think the concept's the same. You're marketing that this token sale, this token has this great use on your platform. And people should be really excited about joining your platform. And they should be excited about buying those tokens so they can use them on the platform, whether it's to make money, whether it's to access games, whether it's to, you know, we're seeing in areas of artificial intelligence, life sciences, really the game. So show the utility use case more than money making. That's all you should be talking about is the utility.  Okay, so what's the conversation like at the law firm these days? I'm sure that the firm's buzzing with the growth of the inbound you have. I don't know if you can say the number of ICOs you've gotten, a pipeline, if you can be great, if you can share it. Greater than 10, less than 100. Yeah, right now I'm actively advising probably 20 to 30 companies that are in the process or at some stage in the process. Where's the scar tissue? What have you learned? What's the big aha takeaway for you that you can share anecdotally from these ICO processes? That's a good question really. So I think it's tempering people's expectations. I think, I mean, the reason I left the government and I got in with good win and stayed in Silicon Valley was because I love the entrepreneurial aspect here. And so you get excited for your clients and you have these clients that approach you with these great ideas. And some of them are like mind-buying. I should have thought that never did. And so you have to temper that a little bit and temper their natural enthusiasm to say, okay, listen, there's a right way to do this and there's a right, a wrong way. Or it's not necessarily a wrong way, but a more gray area. And if you want to really be more in the right area, here's how we have to do it. It may not be quite as lucrative. It may not be as easy, but it's the right way to do it. And let us help you get there. Where's the operational bumps that you guys have hit and where has it been similar to existing legal practices within the firm? I think the operational bumps is there's just not a lot of people that really know the space. I get calls a lot and people will say like, my God, you're a lawyer who actually understands what we're talking about. And so even in a firm like Goodwin, there's a segment of us that, when we have a team and so we understand the language, but not everybody does, right? And so I get calls even internally from the firm, can you help us out on this? I have a client who's talking a slightly different language. And so that's, but that's fun. I mean, that's the exciting part of the process. And you got a natural background in digital rights and securities and white collar crime. You mentioned some of the things you were involved in. Seems natural. That seems to be the profile, doesn't it, for the legal kind of pedigree? I think it is because it's another interesting aspect about this is it covers a lot of regulatory regimes. So obviously it's fraud, it's DOJ, where I used to work yesterday in his office, but also FinCEN and other- What's FinCEN? So FinCEN is basically the regulatory regimes that deals federal level deals with money transfers. FinTech or? Yeah. And it's so like Western Union moving money back and forth. But there's a lot of issues with moving tokens as well. Wire fraud, right? Sounds like token frauds. Whole nother practice. You're going to be in business for a while.   I mean, is that where you're at? What's your vision of how this plays out? I think we're in the beginning stages. I think, you know, when I got involved with digital currency three and a half, four years ago, I didn't know where it was going, but I knew it was going somewhere. And I knew that no matter what we projected, it would go in a different direction. And it has. It's such a great technology. So I think the token sales will continue. I think as the regulatory regime becomes more certain, we'll continue to figure out how things go. But I think it's here to stay. The amount of interest outside the Valley now and other tech hotbeds is extraordinary. And so I think it's transformative. And I just think we're at the beginning of that wave. Great stuff, Gran Fondo. One final question, because it just popped in my head, I get a lot of questions from some of my smart legal friends who are kind of in litigation. Some are GCs and companies. Some are at firms, CXOs at large enterprises. The number one question I get is, man, I got to pay attention to blockchain. What do I do? Where do I find information? How should I attack learning and immersing myself into it? What's your advice would you give there? So a couple of things. One is YouTube's got some great videos on just what is blockchain? What is digital currency? And I sometimes check in on them just to refresh my memory on them. So they're great. So we have a blog. So it's digital perspective. So check out blogs that interest you. And those are great ways to do it. There's also meetups. Like in Silicon Valley, there's a theory of meetup. So there's a lot of opportunity to really get to know. And those are the ways I recommend. You go to a couple of those ethereum meetups. They're really interesting. Well, we'll certainly have you back for checking in with us. It's great to have you right down the street here for our Palo Alto office. Great firm, Goodwin. Do some great work. They have a whole department dedicated to blockchain and ICOs. This is theCUBE's conversation here in Palo Alto. I'm John Furrier. Thanks for watching.


Trini girl natural hi everyone welcome to my channel it seems like I accidentally started an eco-styler series because my last video I did eco-styler you know just tips and tricks and just a basic eco-styler wash and go video and then in the meantime I got tired of not having the eco-styler plastic and coconut oil gels like I just got tired of other people talking about it and me not having it so kind of on impulse I ordered it and I got it and I used it I'll actually be comparing the two new eco-styler gels so I was really excited to try them I tried them one side as one the other side as the other it does look kind of similar but there are differences and I'm going to let you know all about them in this video so the start off I got the 60 ounce of each of them this one is the eco-styler coconut and this one is the eco-styler caster and flax seed they both have this similar kind of glowy consistency I guess eco-styler got that glow up this one is like kind of whitish silverish glue and this one is kind of a goldish glue so let me kind of slowly angle so you can see them it actually smells like a good natural coconut flavor this flax seed one doesn't smell like flax seed or anything which is probably good it doesn't smell as chemically as some of the other eco-stylers but it doesn't smell as natural as a coconut one so definitely coconut wins in terms of scent in terms of ingredients the eco-styler flax seed is actually the surprise standout winner because this eco-styler coconut is very similar to the other eco-stylers in terms of the fancy if you could call it a well fancy ingredient being like all the way at the end so for example this one the only natural thing it has in it is coconut oil and the coconut oil is second to last in the ingredients coconut oil is just before fragrance kind of basic eco-styler in other words similar to how the other one and everything else you know have it all the way at the end I think you can see that don't buy this for your health in other words definitely if you want coconut oil buy your own coconut oil but the eco-styler black castor and flax seed actually surprised me and I guess a lot of naturals because they actually have castor oil and then flax seed in the first five ingredients so let's get into how these actually worked I'm just going to show you a quick demo of how they were to apply and then I'll be right back to discuss you know what you saw in the demo my feelings on applying it and also my result so take a look so to make it fair I didn't rinse either section I'm going to rinse each section just before I put on the gel so that no section is dried in the other so I don't have much conditioning in here I have a little left in but I'm going to rinse it out before I get started so one second be right back okay so I'm back and I'm going to start with the coconut oil side so this is before this second or last in this so you can pretty much say it has no coconut oil but let's see how it works as a gel so as you show it eco-styler it's like super thick and you know I just kind of slowly and carefully work it in this is my hair after applying the eco-styler um usually go silent flat and now I'm going to apply the flax seed but first I'm going to do like a lco so this is with nothing on it you see I have pretty good slip now like once it starts drying a little bit like you've been working in full like you've been working in for a little while the slip kind of reduces or goes away it's starting to happen now where the slip kind of doesn't feel it looks about the same coconut oil I feel that's so crazy flax seed oil again too I was able to I didn't want to mess with it too much but I was able to kind of pick a little bit and fluff a little bit and shake a little bit to try to get some height you know so I'm not too sad about the flatness so this is not flat as when I use the olive and stuff eco-styler and also it is less crunchy so that's good in fact the coconut oil side actually has less crunch so it's even softer it's still eco-styler I wouldn't say it's commeros in terms of softness but I could actually use this coconut oil one and not hate my hair so that's big for me because usually I can't stand how my hair feels with eco-styler on it so the castor oil side for me is just on the wrong side of crunch like crunchy like into them my hair feels stiff kind of crunch and the castor oil is just so that's really big news for me because I usually don't like eco-stylers except for the curls and waves which I'll talk about later again but yeah so coconut oil softer more elongation at the beginning but it looks pretty even now and my hair could also just be longer on one side as well it isn't very elongated because of the castor oil but there's like a half inch between the side of that side so but people were saying that the coconut oil elongates so I don't know that could be it as well as you saw in the demo really thick and tacky it's not as thick as the agon oil but it's thicker than I think the crystal and the olive one you know it wasn't the best slip in the wool but the slip was enough to get me by on the other hand the slip just started to disappear so eventually you saw my fingers kind of started to stick after a while I was like up you're using the flats and then she talked about that same thing so when it started happening I was like she said her hair is also kind of worry so if you have a silky texture it may not bother you but if your texture is kind of more rough to the touch then if you're using this you better work it in quickly something some kind of slip to it so it's okay because it was I don't really like the thick gel so this is thicker I think than the crystal this the application at the beginning was great and then it got worse than this so overall I have to say this wins an application this wins in fragrance and application and definition and softness this wins in ingredients and the jacket jacket and this coconut oil didn't be better so this was exciting or great about a flip top I think I'd rather screw it personally because I don't feel like this flip top really closes it as tight so it is closed but you know on the top might fly off and there goes your stuff I'm good with this I didn't need that extra I'm good with the regular screw one negative thing I could say about the coconut is that it wet one kind of white so if you're one of those people who really wash and go as in my noble wet hair you'd have to think about whether to diffuse or something or you might be better off using this in terms of moisture right now the humidity is just moderate so I think it's a fair time to test these and retain more moisture so this my hair on the side feels softer and more moisturized whereas the hair on the side feels a little moisture I kind of squeeze it down as I feel how moisturized I feel so even if it feels like kind of crunchy to the touch when I squeeze it down I can kind of tell whether I feel any moisture in there so that's what I was doing there so retain more moisture I wouldn't say that any of these are moisturizing so people who just put this on things are as moisturizing to me so I'd suit up beforehand with the full LCO I wasn't waiting for Eco Styler to moisturize my hair at least I made that I did this side by side so I can feel some nice hair on this side if I had to live with this now I guess I'm on Team Coco Eco Styler review because one of my subbies asked me to try the curls and waves so I think I might do one more Eco Styler and then maybe do a conditioner only or something to get all this Eco Styler out of my life I hope you enjoyed this video let me know if you tried the vaccine which one do you prefer that's a watch anyway see you in the next one


Good morning. My name is Clinton Wong and I'm here to talk to you about an alternate cookie tracking system called local shared objects and What its implications are for your privacy? So to tell you a little bit about myself I'm a software engineer in and I work in Silicon Valley and I've written two O'Reilly books a web client programming with Pearl and HTTP pocket reference so To start off this talk isn't really about anything new. In fact, this is something that's been widely known about three years ago But in the hallways of Silicon Valley when I talk to my coworkers unless you're a security researcher This is actually something that not a lot of people know and if people are writing software don't know this chances Are just the regular user doesn't know about it either. So I decided to do this talk to basically Have a public service announcement to tell you Something you should know but you probably don't and because you don't it might hurt you so If you look at this Wikipedia entry for local shared objects, it tells you basically exactly what I'm going to be spending 20 minutes Telling you about But I'll explain it in a little more detail so you can sort of understand and manage it better and then after that There are a few other things I'd like to tell you that are not related to local shared objects Which I'm going to refer to as just LSOs from now on But also it'd be useful to know and once you know it'll help your privacy So a quick survey how many people know that browsers have something called Cookies and that websites can use them to track you Okay, a good number of people How many people know about Adobe local shared objects Okay, some other people too. All right, so before we talk about local shared objects Let's talk about first what the established system already is HTTP cookies are what people refer to commonly as just plain cookies and it's something that is well documented from the Internet Engineering Task Force and There are various documents that describe how the protocol between your browser and your server work and also how cookies work So let's take a look at that and if you've read any of my books You might have noticed that I like to explain at a protocol level how things work So let's take a look at when your browser goes to Google.com First it figures out using DNS like where to find Google.com so it gets the IP address of the Google the main Google web server and then I'll establish a TCP connection to port 80 And I'll send this over that connection It looks pretty simple So there is the first line is a request and then the rest of it Is a description of what the browser is and what kind of content it can accept and who it thinks it's talking to and things like that and The Google web server will reply with response and the first line is basically a status code and also a bunch of information about itself The one thing to note here is the bold line in the middle and it says set cookie and then there's a name value pair I've it's a really long string. So I've truncated it, but This is something to remember for the next slide Because when you talk to Google again with your web browser your web browser remembers that name value pair and Realize it back and that's how Websites can have a session to associate Your request with you. It's a unique way of identifying you and it's stored in your browser So browsers let you manage this. Here's a screenshot from Firefox 3 and In the middle you can see that you can tell Firefox to Accept or deny cookies in general whether to allow or deny third-party cookies, which are cookies that Come from websites that you didn't explicitly go to for example add websites that are referenced from Wherever you happen to be visiting and you can also set the expiration policy the web server the web server Will tell you what the expiration date is but if you want to you can say well clear all the cookies when I quit Firefox and likewise you can Look at each individual cookie and there's usually an option in your browser To just clear all private data in general. So your your browsing history the name and the username and passwords that it remembers everything including cookies and On top of managing cookies in your web browser. You can also Filter them using web proxies. You could this is a common scenario that That corporations use Chances are there's a there's a proxy server in your far wall and if you're inside a corporate network You have to explicitly use it to get to the internet at large They generally don't filter cookies, but they could if you care To filter cookies on your own and not really use your browser to do that You can use something called Provoxy and the website is at the bottom of the slide And basically you can run your own web server on your own computer and tell your web browser to use it And then you kind of don't have to care what your web browser is doing because Provoxy You can configure a bunch of policies to filter or allow cookies to go through it to the website you're talking to okay, so Now let's talk about local shared objects so adobe Developed something called flash and there's a flash plug-in that most all web browsers have and It's pretty much something that a lot of websites use so you can't really turn flash off Otherwise, there's some functionality that you're missing This is how YouTube works. How you watch a video. This is how Pandora works So you can listen to music using their website, this is how ads are delivered to have rich media and and so this is this is an interesting and useful thing to have around it and it's something you can't really turn off and Flash has its own Cookie system similar to HP cookies and it's called local shared objects so The interesting thing about this is that these local shared objects are not clear to when you tell your browser to clear Private data or to clear your cookies in fact Unlike regular HTTP cookies. There's no expiration for them so if you don't know they're there and it looks like a lot of people don't then they're just there forever and well That's bad because you might be clearing your browser thinking that everything's actually cleared but the website developer has a way to actually permanently store stuff on your web browser and And use it forever. So maybe your privacy is Endangered in some way because you think you've cleared it and it actually has not been cleared So just to drive the plane home in Firefox if you This page does absolutely nothing and this clear private data in Firefox doesn't do anything either and When you try this with all the different web browsers out there Safari Firefox Camino Internet Explorer, none of them know how to clear this local shared objects from your flash plugin and Companies know about this so this is a Three-year-old Article, but it basically says hey, there's a company out there that's going to take your regular cookies and store them as local shared objects and if you clear your regular cookies Well, it'll just restore them from your local shared objects So this is a marketing technology. It's not clear how many people actually use this, but it's definitely out there So it's possible that any website you visit could be storing data permanently on your computer Simply because you don't know it's there So It's actually not that bad. How do you how do you fix this right? So how do you get those configuration panels for? Flash to configure your local shared object policy Adobe does have a web a page that explains how to do this on so the URL is here You don't have to write it down because This presentation is on the deaf con cities. You can just look at it later But basically if you go to this URL here, then that URL has a flash app and then when your browser Looks at that the flash plugin will load it and run it and and there it is So here's this page that not many people actually know about And you can actually sort of configure how your your flash plugin works and clearly here You there's an option to allow Third-party flash content to store data on your computer. That's basically talking about local shared objects You can configure the size of the local shared object though chances are people don't really store that much on your computer They could and likewise if you visit this other URL you can look at the individual Individual cookies if you will and and clear them or delete all of them and if you've never Realized that this is here. This might be a startling thing to look at It's probably a very large thing a lot of ad tracking companies and common sites like YouTube and in this example Yahoo, right? so It's not very easy to filter these local shared objects With HTTP it's clearly defined in the cookie header and set cookie header and the proxy can just Can clear that and look at the website you're using and decide what to do with it So I decided to log into Pandora, and I stripped a lot of information out, but basically Pandora will ask you for your username and password and store that as a local shared object but also send it along to the web server because it needs to know what your settings are and If you look at the request it's it's that very last line Which I've truncated and it's this really long hex string and Well For a web proxy. It's not really clear. This is even a local shared object at all It just looks like a post and some data, and so it's not very easy to really filter in any way Likewise the response from the product from the Pandora web server looks like this there's a bunch of XML data that it Returns and that's up to the flash plug-in to interpret but really from a Proxy point of view. There's nothing really there that says this is also like in a local shared object either So it's not very easy to to filter this Okay So having said all of that Now you know that they exist local shared objects and Roughly how to manage them and so you can clear them No, and you can turn off local shared object support and and have a more private browsing experience Okay, so what what else is useful to know here? so I'm going to talk about things that are not local shared objects, but Chances are you don't know about them unless you work in security industry and they'll be useful So this is the Washington Mutual website It's a regular screenshot. I've done nothing special with it and Well, there's something wrong here Does anyone know roughly what it is can you raise your hand? Okay, some people know All right, so here's a hint. Okay, so this is that page again, and here's some of the HTML from that page and Okay, so you're posting your username and password to an SSL HDP us Location so that means you're sending it encrypted. So what's the problem, right? well The problem is if you notice here, you just visit WWW.com you're using HDP That's not using encryption in any way and when you use SSL there's something called a certificate and That ensures that you actually are talking to who you think you're talking to and the reason and the fact that you're Not using it means you don't really know you're talking to Washington Mutual at all It could be that someone in the middle has tampered with the data Let's say you're using a Wi-Fi connection and whoever runs the Wi-Fi is malicious and decided to do some nasty hack here. So that means This regular HTML They could have changed Such that you're posting it to some arbitrary site that they want you to post it to and well It may not actually log you into the Washington Mutual website You've at this point divulged your username and password to some arbitrary place, right? So that's that's bad this is also something that's well known it's documented three years ago and basically People who develop web web services need to realize that when you have a login page. It has to be HTTPS basically HTTP over SSL and in my survey of the major financial institutions. They actually do get this Washington Mutual is pretty much the only one that I could find So people are catching on but still it's three years later. That's It's as with anything in security. It's a matter of awareness Okay Okay, so what's wrong with with this chances are this is something a lot of people use this is yahoo mail It's really similar So basically This is something that was talked about last year at black hat and there's a technique called side-jacking on a regular trusted network the data between you and Yahoo is pretty much private, but if you're on something like a Wi-Fi connection. Well, everyone can see the traffic and That means when you're communicating with say the Yahoo web server Their cookies flying around and there's not any encryption here And so everyone can see your cookie, which means they can actually use your cookie while you're still logged in And that means they can impersonate you they can do whatever they want as you when you're logged in Google Realized this is happening and there's a special URL you can go to HTTPS and Gmail and Google.com and after you log in your entire session will be SSL encrypted So that problem goes away with yahoo and hotmail. I Don't know a solution for this. I tried looking if you know Please let me know afterwards and I'll update the slides and the updated information will be on the defcon website So that's pretty much it. I Hope you've learned something about local shared objects and how to improve your privacy and never log into a Financial institution or anywhere else where you care about your privacy using the HTTP the page must be HBS and For your email try to use something or pressure your current mail provider to have an all SSL session for For your traffic and that's pretty much it. Thank you


Booty butt, shaka, booty butt, shaka, booty butt. Booty, booty, booty, booty, booty, booty butt. Up, Karen, make it rain on her. Help make it rain on Karen, you know? Her rent is late. Anybody got a change for a one? Rain on Karen. If I got a change for a five, I need $2 bills. One got two $2 bills and a one. Sit, sit, sit.  Highway to the danger zone. How many of you guys are familiar with this, this oldie butt goodie from the 1980s? How many of you guys are familiar with that from the 1980s? Come on. Who can tell me the movie? From the movie 1980s. A 1980s classic. Kenny Loggins on the track. And when it got good to him, he said this. Come on, Kenny. Sorry, guys. Pick up. What's going on with the computer, man? All right, we built it while we fly it. Come on, Goose. What's going on, Mace? There we go. All right, the danger zone. What is the danger zone? Top gun. See, over here, high value men could be considered to be top guns. See, anybody can fly a jet. You know, you can fly a jet in a Navy or an Air Force. I mean, I think all branches have their version of a helicopter, of aircraft. But in order to fly the premium aircraft, in order to do air-to-air combat, to get out there on the edge and actually take people down, you had to go to Top Gun Academy. This is what the best of the best of the best went. Well, guess what? You're over here at Top Gun Academy. This is where men who were high earners not rich yet, guys who want to be successful. Top 10% guys on the way to the top 5% guy. Blake or Blue Henry? Brad Lee or Matt Keith or NK? Blake Henry, white collar. Blue Henry, blue collar brothers, business owners, enterprising kind of brothers, ambitious, entrepreneurial, or the guys who can see either path.  Henry's in training at the end of the day. These are the guys who will be considered the top guns. And in order to get a top gun, man, what happens in the movie Top Gun, they had the local bar where they would run all the game on women, but any time you have elite or powerful men, beautiful women are always going to be around. And the funny thing is, we know these things.  They're putting off marriage in favor of college, career, these kind of things. And they're waiting to learn in like 30s, late 20s or 30s, before they even decide they want to start looking for a husband as if you can do that. There's a, over here, I do things a little different. When I do the, how do you rank yourself from one to 10? You can't use seven.  The wall is a woman's sexual as the age at which high-risk pregnancy begins for most women. Let's age 35. When we get right down to it, between the ages of 27 and 35 is what I consider to be the danger zone. The danger zone is that time in life where a lot of women, the light comes on. And it's like, okay, I went to college. I've had my fun. I've been out for five, eight, six years. And I've seen all my white colleagues and my Asian colleagues get married. Now it's like I'm ready to settle down and go find me a Henry. I want to all of a sudden become a stay-at-home wife to where I don't ever have to work, you know, or I'll work from home in my husband's business and all these fanciful notions, which is cool. That's what you want. But why is the tight age between 27 and 35, the danger zone? Well, let's get into it. It's the danger zone for several reasons. One, you're reaching the age to where you're too old. Now, you may still be a young woman at 33, but when it comes to the marriage market, make no mistake, you're an old woman.  And like anything else, men and women alike, the older we get, the less likely or the harder or the more impervious we are to change. Okay, you're an older woman for the marriage market, the more impervious to change, and now the sense of urgency is at a height.  Now, how do we, let me just break it in like this. There's a lot of, I can show you better than I can tell you. I can show you better than I can tell you. Okay, let's do it this way. All right, well, I'm gonna play a clip and we're gonna get into it. I'm gonna open the call line because this is not a bad session. I don't talk to the women who are in this danger zone kind of area, and let's see if you can either be like Maverick and turn it around or whether you're gonna be like Goose. In Top Gun, if you didn't make it, they called it washing out. How many women in the danger zone are going to wash out? I'm good, how are you? I'm good, what do you have for me? So I do think that we, as a people like to change, although I think that as a whole, we probably have issues with confronting being different from the crowd, and when you start to change. Meaning what? What do you mean different from the crowd? I think I just kind of found that most of the time, when you're wanting to change, you're usually inspired by your direct surroundings, which means you're looking around at people and you're saying, I don't wanna be like you, I wanna be different from what I'm seeing, what I'm experiencing. And so if we were changing to kind of join the crowd, it'd be a lot easier, but oftentimes we're kind of moving away from things that we know and that we're used to. And so I think that there's just some insecurity and am I doing the right thing? There's a lot of people who are gonna tell you that you're not and you're kind of on your own until you find your new group and then you realize, oh, okay, I'm in my lane. So how's that working in, so how old are you? I'm 33. So perfect spot, 27 to 35, I call that the danger zone. The danger zone. The danger zone. It's the age where a lot of college educated and or working independent career women start to realize, I don't have a husband yet and it's not working. And there's a pattern. I have a video called Over 30 Attractive and Single AF. Similar thing talking about the higher up a woman goes the more money she makes, the more degrees, these kinds of things, the more difficult it becomes to find a man on her level. Now over here, guys are already raising their hands saying we wanna be in the top 10% of men. There's no dust over here. So you can't use that argument like everybody else. I don't deal with average over here. I deal with guys who want to be above average. And I want you to hear what so many women in the danger zone, imagine if you were a man between 27 and 35 and you had to go through these kind of, just listen, just listen. I agree. The danger zone. It's the years between before 35, which is where high risk pregnancy starts. Are you married or have you been married? No. Not yet. Do you wanna be married? Yes. Are you in a serious relationship now? No, I'm newly single. I'm like six months out. Okay. And how long was your previous relationship? About four years. Oh. And he was about 10 years older. Okay. Put on a pile of coffee, let's go to work. Yeah. All right, so tell me, I'm curious. I'm really curious. Okay, you were the guy that was 10 years older for four years. Yeah. You can't know what you did not know at the beginning. Oh, come on. You know what, let's do it this way. Build it while we fly, baby. Build it while we fly it. Can't know what you did not know then. We have an internet problems over in this. It's rainy out here, guys. So, when you started? I was boyfriend-minded, which sounds kind of weird, but to be mind, I was kind of young. No, it doesn't. Okay, I was set on finding a relationship. I felt that'd be the first step. Right.  I just saw a lot of people who were coming in out of relationships and they were so damaged it takes years to bounce back, it moves away and all that stuff. But you went to college though, right? No, I stopped halfway through. So, I have an AA and then I stopped halfway through. I'm a realtor.   So, you've been in your career for how long? Los Angeles. Oh, okay. Congratulations. I'm a brand new realtor. Just to... Again, I want you guys to listen just to... So, I'm just 33. And just the... Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Oh, look at me! I mean, it's like, really? January. Okay, so what I'm trying to see is if, like in corporate America, one of the things I noticed after college is all of the white people, the non-black people started to get married from 23 to 27. They were going to weddings.  In the office I worked in, one woman went to seven weddings in one season. Seven. Right. And that's what the always a bridesmaid, never a bride. Now, I want to pause here. How many black women know you worked in an office environment? Well, you've seen, when it's spring and summer, you've seen women always going to weddings, wedding after wedding after wedding after wedding, to the point to where you're like, what's going on? And I'm like, what are you... I'm trying to understand what a lot of women think when they see this, but they don't see black women going to get married in their 20s. But it's like a news flash to black men and black women that most folks get married early on. I... Right.  I worked for a large company and I'm seeing all these average looking white women going to wedding and they were... And you know what I heard, Brittany? I heard one woman say, this is me, I am broke. I don't know what's going on on that phone over there, but we're going to get to it. Cause you have to buy the dress and this and that. It was fascinating to me that I'm like, that these women felt compelled to have to go spend full $500 to attend a friend's wedding. But then the sisters was just out kicking it. So the pressure was on white women in this office to get married because by age 30, everybody was married up. So when you say you a boyfriend minded at 29, it makes sense because I don't think a lot of black women really see themselves being married until later in life. No, and my parents are still together, but they had me very, very early and a lot of my friends and cousins the same. So I think that there was maybe a little bit more encouragement for us to wait and be young and have your own apartment and things like that that I didn't get to have because I got married so young. Okay, so, okay.  At what point, was there a point where you wanted it to go further and he didn't? No opposite. He wanted it to go further than you didn't. That's yes, in the present tense, yes, but I don't think that's going to be my choice. I'm confused. Okay, so y'all were together four years and he wanted to marry, he was talking about getting married, but you didn't want to marry him. Yes, we were together for four years and I think that's something that he would want to do, but I don't think he is, I think he's more wedding minded than marriage minded and so I'm just making a decision to seek a better... Has he asked you to marry him? Has he, okay. No, he has not asked me to marry him, no. Has he brought up the subject to you? Oh yes. And when you said equally yolk, what do you mean? Well, I kind of had a, I just had family, my parents and my mom would kind of pull me to the side and say, listen, you know. Are you talking about money? It's this, he did all right with money. I just don't think, he just, I think I had a very kind of stable shelter kind of upbringing. Okay. And so I think I may have certain expectations for just kind of a traditional, just the way that a traditional marriage goes and family goes and he did not have that. And so I just didn't think I was gonna be... Okay, okay. So four years, notice, the more you talk, the more you start to realize. There's always something with the men. And then you wake up and it's like, well, but now I want to be a stay at home wife and la, la, la. But you had men, when do you ever start to look and say, huh, maybe it's not the guys?  This is a woman who's, who said that she didn't want to be with him because, you know, basically, if you let her talk long enough, he wasn't on her level. Start talking about serious stuff. Was it with his mother and father, Mary? No, I don't think he knows his father. All right. So, but you were with him for four years and during some of the best years, some of the most, not best years, some of the most critical years, prime years where you were already 28 or 29 by the time you were with him. Prime has already passed. You're in the critical years. She's in the critical years, in the, where we at, man? Why are you telling me what I need to do, dude? Kevin needs to leave this knowledge with a few select black men and teach us.  Tell me what I need to do. I don't have, when you Negroes come over, tell me what I need to do. What do I need to do? What do I need to do? What do I need to do? She has thought she was at her prime years.  You in the danger zone. Why did I stop this? I stopped it because we got 1,400 people watching and we only have, we got less than 500 likes and nothing in the donations.  No, that ain't how we do it. Then I got somebody telling me what I need to do. I need to stop talking to this and I need to do that.  Men show their work. Find it offensive when you type and tell me something I need to do and it's now followed by a dollar. So, here's what we're gonna do. Until we get these likes up, we're gonna take a break. We're gonna take a break and we are going to get the monies up because, yeah, y'all know how this work. Mm, mm, mm, mm, mm, mm, mm, mm, mm, mm, mm, mm, mm, mm, mm. Where's my dad gum song? Where's that song at? Money work. Thanks, sir. See, it's funny when you start talking about people where they should be in life when they wanna get to, just like we had people yesterday, all worried about stuff outside of them. I was Kevin married, and Kevin is doing fine. Answer the question yourself. Where did that lady go? I guarantee you all the people who come in here asking the questions that ain't no closer to the caller than to success. And I'm just using her as an avatar, the years where you can't afford to waste time. So what I'm trying to figure out is, I'm hearing you say that basically, the way you're sounding is, he was cool to be a boyfriend, but he's not husband material because we're not equally yoked and I'm trying to understand. Is it a money thing? What does that yoked mean? That's broad with women. Did he make enough money? I think it's more inside style. So let me, okay, did he make enough money for you to be married to him? Not, it wasn't consistent, it wasn't consistent.  Okay, so. So, and lifestyle is a result of his income. Okay, so he made enough money to be a boyfriend, but not husband. Yeah, probably something I would have mentioned is that because I was in such a unique part of my life when from my twenties to my thirties, I had changed careers, bumped up like 30,000 in salad, but so many different things had happened to me in that timeframe that I was kind of like, oh, now I understand. So basically when you were in the middle, it was okay, but then when you start making more money, then all of a sudden he didn't look as good. Well, no, he still made more than me. So it wasn't that, it was more of like, hey, now we make more money, do you wanna get a house? Does he make more than you now? Yes, oh, now, no. Okay, when you were together. Yes. Okay, so I'm not understanding. It's how you wanna spend the money. It's how you want to set up your life. You don't get to spend anybody's money till you marry. See what she just told on herself. See, when she was in her twinkling twenties, it was just fine. But all it took was $30,000 for this chick to decide the guy that she was opening her legs to, kicking it with wedding marriage of material. Right. Why? Because she's in the goddamn danger zone. Now she's curious. Four years, 29 to 33. And you're with somebody who wasn't marriage material, but you're laying down running the risk of getting pregnant? None of this stuff makes sense. Or does it? But that's when your husband, okay.  Well, I think in the beginning, I had enough time to decide and then I think I had to kind of. She thought she had enough time to decide. Again, 29 years old, when you know all these other folks around the country getting married in their early twenties, had enough time to decide. Always the thing with our sisters. No, you don't have enough time. Stop. You're out of time. It was me to, you know, him saying that it was the right path. It took a while for me to kind of just follow my instincts. It's probably the short way to put it.  I like to be able to stay with my kids when they're young enough to avoid daycare, but I probably would always still be a realtor on the side and make money.  Temporarily, at least. I mean, not permanently. How many children do you wanna have? I'm gonna be very realistic now. I'm an only child. Now. If I can get it. Let me stop you right there. Have you had therapy? No, I haven't had therapy. No, you need it. You need it. I have a good reason. No, you need it. I'm down for that. I'm an only child. I know of what I speak. That's why I'm sitting here listening to you. I'm like, there's something more going on in this. I have that term, but I only know if that is like what, being spoiled or I don't know what that means. Yeah, spoiled, selfish, unrealistic. Spoiled, selfish, unrealistic inability to play well with others, lack of ability to make or sustain lasting relationships, leaning towards narcissism, leaning towards the dark triad of personality traits.  I have to look into that. Well, I'm telling you. But I do actively, you know. Here's the thing. It's not a, it's not a, it's not for sure. Being an only child, we grow up sooner than we have to. We tend to be more precocious or we're very spoiled. Unless you do things early on, like early on in life, I started doing things outside of myself, volunteering and things like that, because my father's side of the family, as long as long story, I had a nice amount of balance, but still all my friends who are only children never marry. So when I'm listening to you talk about a guy that you dated for four years, and it's also as though you're talking about him as though you were here and he was there, but he's making more money than you. You don't have a college degree. You did have a major bump, but he's still out earning you. And I'm asking, why stay in the relationship so long if you knew you wanted to marry and have children? Well, yeah, I think I kind of was so focused on getting the first thing complete. And then I'll be honest. Once I hit 30, I started to hear a lot of women tell, hey, you know, be careful before you. Were these women married? Again, how do they do it? It's always black women. They gotta get this list of stuff. I gotta do this first and do that first. And then I started getting older and I started hearing a lot of women start saying this stuff. These women married? No. Are they gonna help you get what you want? No. This is where a lot of our sisters hear. Were these women married? I mean, at different points in their life, but no, my mom didn't exclude it from that.  Yes, they're happily married now. And they weren't really the ones saying. Okay. And they've been married for how long? They've been together since they were a teen married since I was six, but they've always been together. They just were really, really young. So you had a good role model. So at 33, do you wanna have two children? Would you have to be a wife? I think, what do you mean? Do you mean in what sense? Like financially? It's not a true question, man. Holistically, I don't know because I don't know what to expect. I mean, I would think I'm as, I think I'm ready to try.  I said, basically I asked her, was she ready to be a wife?  But yet you've had a four year relationship to where all you was worried about was boyfriend. And then as it comes out, you got another long-term relationship. I'm gonna let this continue to play because you can plug and put these avatars of these kinds of behaviors in with so many women. They're in this zone to where all of a sudden life has collapsed on them and they're looking for answers. They're looking for the, they think they're doing, now I'm ready, you're in the danger zone. Right.  Yeah, I could, yeah. Cause I'm a lot like my mom. Does she work? Mm-hmm, she has, she works and she has her own business. And was your, so your father, who made the final decision in your family?  Like just in the household? Period. My dad made the final decision, but he's not, he cares about the women and his family's opinions very much. So we got to talk and give our opinions quite a bit, but he made the final decision. So if you needed to get something done, would you get your mom to do it or would you get your dad to do it? Depends on what it is. My dad's more laid back, so it depends on if I need that. So let me just go ahead and cut to the chase. Your dad did not make the final decision. Your mother made the final decision. I can tell by the way you answered the question.  Well, can you give me an example of what a final decision? Yeah, meaning that if your father, if you came from a strong household, where you had a strong leader father, that question would have been no nuance. Like when I asked you questions, there's all this hedging and kind of sort of holistic. No, that's not the product of a strong father. That's the product of a more passive or beta father and a stronger mother. Just like your dominant kind of personality is the result of a dominant female and a weaker male. You know what it is? My mom is very feminine, but the thing about it is I definitely took after her. Her mom is very feminine. How many people leave that? I'm gonna say your mom's very feminine, ma'am. You, she may have wore dresses and may not have cursed, but no, no, no, no, no, no. You're the man in my family. So what did your father think about your ex-boyfriend? I think he liked him, but he does not, I don't think he thought that that was ideal for me. So we would talk about it a lot. So before your ex-boyfriend, so four years, you don't know exactly what your father thought of? No, no, I do. I think that he liked him as a person, as an individual. Like there was nothing that was wrong with him. The question is, how did your father think about him for you? He didn't think it was the ideal relationship for me, but he liked the guy. All right, all right. And then what about the relationship before that one? What's the long relationship you had before that one? Here we go. Maybe two years? Okay. And that was when I was a little younger, and I don't really remember involving my parents much. I was like probably 23. Okay. And then what about before that? When I was younger, understand, most people are getting married around this age, but to a lot of black people, 20 to 23 is just so young. Pay attention. Nothing now would cost serious. So you were 23 at the previous relationship, 23 to 25? No, actually, I wasn't. I was 20 to 23, I think. So 20 to 23, that's three. Okay, 20 to 23. So you had a three-year relationship and a four-year relationship. Yeah, because I turned 21 in that relationship. So listen, so listen. So this is what I'm about to say. You didn't involve your family in that three-year relationship. No. That's why your father was not a dominant man. There's no way a 20-year-old woman should be in a three-year relationship at 20 years old, and her family ain't involved in none of this stuff.  You've had two long-term relationships. That is part of that only child thing. The keeping it to yourself for the length of time? Well, number, several things, man, several things. But this, unfortunately, this happens to a lot of black women, only child or not. It's not uncommon to hear black women in their early and their mid-30s who've had several suitable men. There's no way you can be with somebody for three years if he's not suitable. Well, I would say. There's no way you can be with somebody for three years if they're not suitable. You may want to go back and revise history, but this ain't my first rodeo. And what I'm saying is- Well, I see your point. Well, yeah. And the thing is- Don't count my first one, though. That wasn't the first one. I'm counting your first one. It was three years. Some of the things that you notice, the things you notice about women who are in the danger zone, they're combative, they're argumentative, they have a need to be right, they over-talk you, and in general, they are too old to mold. Too old to mold. Shout out to Mr. Jep. That's his. Too old to mold. You're gonna notice this start to rear its head more and more. And if you go back through my catalog, if you listen to women who are 27 to roughly 37, but 27 and 35 today, in the danger zone, plug and play. Wasn't suitable. Take my word for that. But I learned, and then I decided, like, hey, let me get into something that's a little bit different. Okay, you've learned that. Let me challenge that. You've learned, right? Well, I learned from the first one to the second one to try to be, I just kind of continue to try to hone in on better qualities. So you've had a three year and a four year.  And you still haven't had no therapy. I'm considering it, because my friend's having a lot of Positivity with it. And I don't want it to be a self-discipline. Considering it means no. No, no, I would. I actually would. Listen, Britt, Britt, Brittney, listen. Nobody sees your picture. No one sees your face. What I'm saying is you've been in charge of the last two long-term relationships that you pick men who are not suitable, not on the level of being a provider, lifestyle. Whatever you say, you've picked them with no input from any other man.  And you're still in charge of this process. You have not gone to sit down with a counselor to understand what's going on with you because you keep picking these people. I'm telling you that you need therapy. That's not an insult.  You have no time to waste. Do you want two children, even if you met the man tomorrow? Why don't you have any time to waste? Why don't you have any time to waste because she's in the danger zone. We don't have any time to waste. It'll take six months before you're married. If you got pregnant on your wedding day, you may be kicking one kid out by age 34 and a half or 35. Your second child would be high risk. And if you don't want to, and if you don't, but you're not talking like you're doing anything about it. And if you're in LA, the cost of living is not inexpensive. If you want to take off until their school age, what, till their kindergarten? Till they go to kindergarten or first grade? Which one? No, I don't think I'll be able to do first grade. But what would you want? Like maybe preschool? Preschool, which is what? So I think that's like three, three or four. Oh, preschool can be anything, but okay. Let's just say three or four. If you want to have two kids, that's still five years out of work. Yeah. That's still five years out of work in LA. So that means you're going to need somebody in LA. It's going to make it around two kids, close to $500,000 a year in LA. For you not to work. For two years, for five years. What are the chances of you meeting a guy who's making $300,000 a year in LA? Well, the family that I do know who stayed home, who are about my age, they don't stay home and live that kind of a lifestyle. They do a lot of couponing.  Man, I have clients in LA and I've thought about moving to LA. LA, the cost of living is on par with New York City. It's expensive. Well, I have family, my cousin who's a year old, she tells me to move to Texas. So, let's throw one more freaking thing into the fire. See how, you're all over the board. Let me think what you just said. I said, listen. It's just when you get to a certain age, you get a lot of opinions. No, well, how about this? You haven't, no, you've got a lot of opinions. Why do you get so many opinions? Why do they get so many opinions when you get to a certain age? I'm in this jet wash. You're in the jet wash, man. You're in the jet wash. Pull up, pull up. How about this? That's the problem. That's why you're all over the place.  He's what you drive your relationships into two, a three year and a five and four year ditch. That's not what your father wants for you. But apparently he doesn't have- He's concerned with religion. So, that's his main thing.  I think that's probably right.  Yeah, probably. I know, no, probably. And that's another reason why you're by yourself. You will be a good girlfriend, but you'll be a horrible, long term wife because you're hard headed. Time's running out for- This is what the therapy's for, man. Because I'm just running the numbers. I'm running the numbers. See, when you're in a dangerous zone, see that clock right there? Time's running out for you. She talking and she arguing. Well, maybe, no, no, no, no, no, no.  Well, move to Texas. So, let me get this right. Are you gonna meet a guy who can have you standing at home and all of a sudden he gonna move from California, LA and have that job there? That makes no sense. No. Like, she was telling me- Now that I'm- Who's she? Who's she? My cousin who is a stay-at-home mom, but she lives in Texas. She was telling me like- Who's she?  Okay, but she's- He was saying LA is not the place. Let me ask you something. Let me ask you a real drag question. When you're talking to men in your life, in just day-to-day life, do you over-talk them? Depends on if I like them or not, I'll be honest. Is that- Romantically, not as much, but day-to-day. How about this? Romantically, so how about this? How would you, honestly, do you think that's rude? To over-talk. A man, yes. I know they don't like it. What about it? What if a guy- What about it? But see, you can over-talk a woman because there's no threat of anything. See, in a state of nature, what happens when a female decides to get too aggressive or try to dominate a male? They assert the dominance? Right, so only in this country have we on this westernized world have men been restricted to not to furnish out your mouth. When you continue to over-talk a man, especially even on his show, I don't care if you're romantic or not.  That's rude. But that's par for the course when you are requesting to fly by. No, you're too old, the pattern's full. Oh, batch. And you know it is. I'm sorry. Would you do that with a white man? I don't know. I never thought about that. Really? Probably. Really? So when you were at work, what do you work as a real estate agent? Yeah, but I did work in corporate before, so I wasn't that dynamic before. Right, so you over-talk white men that way, too? That's what I was gonna say. Strangely, everybody was all of my managers except for women.  Again, and then your father sounds like he was very hands off. I'm gonna be polite. He's very hands on, but I understand what you mean. Negative-strag writer, the pattern is full. Negative-strag, the pattern is full. Fly on over to Spenster Air Base. The pattern is full.  How about this? Even you're still trying to be right.  Whole headache. You ain't gotta worry about being married, especially to a man who's gonna be able to provide and let you stay at home. The best you're gonna get is working. If you get lucky and find a man. Don't nobody, don't no man wanna hear this. And this is what I wanna focus on. For the ladies who are officially all up and through the danger zone. You know you have not prioritized marriage. You have wasted your prime years. You're now in the danger zone. Why do you feel like you should get a high value man? You are lucky to get a man. Shout out to Rebecca Limpope, you're lucky to get a man.  But no, you can't do that when you're your age. You ran the time out because you understand why that's not good enough for you because you look at your body and it's not what it was when it was 21. You know you don't bounce back. You are in your late 20s and early 27 is the beginning of the danger zone. Most of these women are like 32, 33.  Most people would have put a bullet through, gone pew pew and got ghost left long before. Most people are like, I don't know how you talk to them people. Because somebody needs to and I have the patience. Most guys say they'd have been like, me, me, me, they would have been out. They're like, I'm not gonna talk to these women when I see somebody in the danger zone. I am gone. How old are you, 32? Peace. And the fact that's what got me in the hot water with a lot of people when I just merely said I prefer to date women under 30. It was like, uh-huh, uh-huh. Why? Cause this is what you get. You get a lot of this. I'm gonna be honest. Don't a man wanna hear this.  You wanna tell me what your cousin who's married? I don't wanna hear what some married woman is talking about. No! I'm just trying to give you some perspective.  You came to get your life going right. Why don't you do your perspective? Does it work for you? How's that working for you? Well, that's what I'm talking about being. How's that working for you? How's that working for you? What? How's your perspective working? How's your perspective? And trying to get me right on all the nuances. How's that working for you? Have you ever dated a man? Have you ever dated a man who is a high earner, not rich? Have you ever dated a man who's well-off? Got his stuff together, knows where he's going and in charge of his life? No. I wonder why. Well, by my standards. I think you would agree though. I'm assuming you'd agree. Did you hear that? No, I've never dated Henry by my standards. As if. As if by any standards you'd get him. I said, I wonder why. Do you think a high earner, not rich yet, would put up with this? Like me talking a lot? Not unless he's a. Not talking a lot. You being combative. You wanting to be right on the argument? I don't, you just, that only, it's more than only child. We've gone far past only child. You've gone into typical black female. Fuckery, honestly. You've gone smooth into it. There's a reason you're 33 and chronically unmarried. It's not because you're not attractive and can get a man to say, I will be seen in public with you. It's just you can't get a quality man. Like finding some good examples to try to kind of get an idea of how they operate. So you can kind of see like the differences. Like, okay. Why do you think that works? Examples? Find an example? Why not? Okay. You're 33. You're not 23.  No, no, I don't think that. So you're still trying to do it the slow way. Why, here's a question. Has anyone, have you ever thought about going to sit down with a therapist? That's interesting. I actually thought I was doing it the fast way. That's the slow way? That was a question. Did you hear it? But I don't have a problem with therapy. I think it's a good idea. That was a question. So Big Head Bean, the chick that joined my channel, did you hear me ask her a question? Even after I brought it to her attention, Big Head, let's say the Big Head Bean. Big Head Bean, did you hear when I brought it to her attention that you're over talking to me?  I'm trying to run a show. You're not stopping. When I ask you a question, you don't answer it. You notice that was like 10 minutes ago? You notice she's still doing it? Is that rude? Big Head Bean? Bean Grim? Fantastic boy. Is that rude? I wanna hear you say this woman has been rude. Because if you don't, ma'am, you are disingenuous. And at this point, I don't have to play nice with you.  And see, the polite thing to do is to answer a question and not answer it with another question. So that's polite. Did you hear the question? Peter, Peter, for me? Exactly, or was what, no, no, what did you think? What did you think I said? Why haven't I considered going to a therapist at this point at 33? I said, have you ever considered going to therapy? Yes. I haven't, I haven't called it. No, guys, don't time her out. I want her to write everything she can in the chat room so I can dissect each and every one of them. Talk about a high value man disrespecting women. Keep letting her tie the noose around her Big Head neck. See, when you got a Big Head like that, it's hard for most people to put a noose around your neck so you think your neck is protected.  Keep talking Big Head. Trigger, but maybe that's, is that the fast way? Why, why haven't you pulled the trigger? Let me think about that for a second. Why haven't I pulled the trigger? I guess, I guess I just figured that's something you do when you get to a different stage in your life, like maybe when you want to be more reflective. So in other words, therapy's not a proactive thing. She's not reflective enough to look at any of this. You only do therapy if you're more reflective. What she's really saying is, ain't nothing wrong with me. That's what she's really saying. Only people who need to go to therapy are people who are crazy. Parts through the words, that's what she's saying. And unfortunately that's why so many of our sisters feel this way, but then they look down to the reality of their left ring finger and it tells a different story. I never considered using the password.  Well, maybe, yeah, I guess I always thought of therapy as something you do kind of to like unpack, you know? I never thought of that.  Well, I think it depends on where I want to be. No, ma'am, that's a very simple question. It depends on where I want to be. See, when I ask you a very simple question, it always comes down to this, well, it depends on where you want to be. At 33 years old, did you think you would be here unmarried? No prospects? That's a yes or no. That's a yes or no. I am an overthinker. That's a yes or a no? I know. That's a yes? You have to say over on a no. That's a no. No, no. So if you're not where you thought you would be, is that not a problem? That's a yes or no question again. If you're not where you thought you'd be, is that a problem? Yes. Yeah, I would say so. All right, so if you had a destination, if you had a goal, a destination, and you said, we're going to get there by a certain time and you look up and you're not anywhere, you know we're close to your goal. At what point? That's a problem. Right, so you had a three year relationship that you don't even want to count. That's a problem that you don't even want to count it.  Right, right. At what point do you realize that you're not the best the picker of men? And maybe instead of trying to look at videos and just talking to this woman, talk to that woman, you need someone, just talk to somebody to get all these overthinking things in your head out on paper.  Well, yeah, or at least it'll give me someone else to ramble to, right, before I go home.  Right, that's not, it's true.  But you don't have time to wait. See, I'm making light of it, man, you're 33. You're going through life thinking it's as fast. No, you got two years before your eggs is old. She's 33, won't have two kids. She got it all the time in the world. This is fast way. This is a slow way.  My new plan, but you can't make a new plan with old eggs, man. You got two relationships in seven years, that's a problem. You shouldn't have had the next one. You should have figured out something out, man. You should have involved somebody else. And that's why I said the other day, so many of our sisters out here just making decisions on their own, not asking anybody, keeping the council of women and you pick poorly. I'm telling you right now, man. First thing, you're an only child. That is an issue in and of itself. Number one, number two, you're over 30 or 33. You have passed what is called the wall and dating, dating and mating. Most women over 30 are too difficult to really adjust or change. There's a thing called too old to mold. It requires a woman over 30 to be proactive and changing. She's past the age to where a guy can actually teach mold to help her. That's why guys your age go get younger women and skip right on over you, except for Netflix and chill. So are you saying that like, so if you're over, well, basically for me, you're saying, if I need guidance, the best thing to do now would just be to get therapy, talk it out, maybe try to find somebody who understands what my goals are and maybe get a man. So they could be like, oh, this is it. Let me ask you a question. Or a male therapist. Let me ask you a question this way. How many men do you have to talk to about this? Just a few. How many? Maybe Steve might. You're who? Maybe like that I would really talk to you about it just to like my grandfather and then my dad, probably would be it.  She said her father, your grandfather and your father. You didn't talk to your father. You got nobody to talk to. None.  So let's get- Yes, yes, I do. Exactly, and that's why you're alone. And that's why you're alone. So answer your own question. Talking to a bunch of women has got me by myself.  So that's the first thing. No, man, the first thing you need to do is realize you got a problem inside your head. And that's not a problem. You need to sit down and talk to somebody. Black folks in this country, we need therapy like a mug. But you think you can figure this out on your own. Number one, I'll tell you what I tell my female clients. The reason I don't work with women as much anymore. Therapist, personal trainer, image consultant, matchmaker. That's what you older women need. And you're an older woman when it comes to marriage. Let me make that clear. You're an older woman when it comes to marriage. You're not a young woman. So you're saying basically- You're an older woman when it comes to marriage. You should have been made 10 years ago. So adopt a new plan. There's no adopting new plan either. See, you still- Follow older women's plan. Okay, ma'am. You don't, okay, let me say this again. Let me ask you this question. When have you ever followed a man's lead? These are good questions because I've never heard them before.  I follow, like, I'll follow a lead in a relationship, but- That was so rude. Your point- Oh, you mean you- Hold on, hold on, let me get this right. You'll follow the loser's lead? Well, yeah, that's what was going to be your point.  All right, is it your nature role to lead? No. And I do know that- So how do you know if he's leading you right? You didn't even let your father lead you. See? Well- This is why, this is why- That's what I- Listen, listen, okay, I'm going to the next call. Ma'am, listening to you realistically, this whole Mary stayed at home, that's not gonna happen. 72% of American women with children under 18 have to work full-time. You're gonna be- Right, right, right. One in three black, one in four black women get married. Okay? Right. Getting married would be astronomical right now for where you're coming from. You're all over the place. You're all over the place. And when I say you need therapy, you need therapy to get out of your own head. That just means to live a decent life, but to deal with a man. Whole different bodies. Well, and the reality is, if you're in LA, LA is the land of men with money. If they aren't approaching you, there's a reason.  Just like this average girl, regular girl. I don't know what the number scale would be. One, two, three, four, five. An average girl. Thank you. I'm glad she at least did that. But why would an average, anybody, who would want to deal with this amount of issues? And the point is, why am I focusing on this? Because you're 33. When you're, see, you're the most intelligent group of women on the planet and strong enough at what point do you self reflect and realize it's not working? It's not working. And here's the thing. I'm talking and talking, talking. She would not, I'm like, Jesus, did you ever want to say, well, thank you for your time? I know you got other callers to get to. I want you guys to notice, how many times have you heard her say, thank you for your time? I know you got a shoulder run. Six, eight, nine, or 10. Jesus Christ. I don't know what the numbers mean. Just regular, whatever, what's regular was average. One, two. But number constitutes regular average. You went with the school in the United States of America. You know what a zero to 10 scale is. I do, but not when it comes to reading your look, your own personal looks.  Like a five is five, like five is right down the center. So is that? Would you rank yourself as a five is right down eight? Like middle. Eight is pretty. Nine is beautiful. 10 is gorgeous. There is no seven cause most women like you would rank yourself a seven. Right down the middle would be closer to your cutesy. But then again, how tall are you? I'm short, I'm only three. And we're dressed like we're. Just before, which I think is kind of that average. Okay. All right.  That means you get average man making average money living an average lifestyle. Yeah. That's rude. So I don't understand what you're talking about. But you don't, but the glass guy you said he was making more money than you. Yeah, but that wasn't the issue of the money. It was more of just the, I don't really think he was serious about wanting to get, have kids and things like that. And obviously I don't have a lot of time. The thing is that you don't want to move to that range or you changed your mind. Well, then. Well, I would say this. Cut my losses, I guess. Here's where it comes down to. I've tried to kind of go around it, but average. And that's not a bad thing. No. 33 years old. You got a lot of things going on your head.   They're not going to. Men don't talk this much, typically. I have a show and I get paid to do this. But this is exhausting. And you probably just having a high old good time thinking this is just good fun.  There's no amount of sex that you could give me after this to make this worthwhile. There's not a good enough meal that you could cook to make this worthwhile. Now, I see what you're saying. And what I'm trying to say and in a reasonable way possible is you have to be able to see your own outcomes and do something about it. And the way you're talking about doing this, I'm just gonna get information from a guy on YouTube. No. But you mean, no, yes. That's what you did. I was just calling in on the change form. Listen, but the point is, I know, man, but we've gotten down a further path and everything that could actually help you and push the ball down the court, you haven't done. Fair, consulting? All right. All right. What would you like to say? Can I ask you one question for advice, one last question for some advice, pertaining to what you're saying. Because I just found your channel. That's why I even was kind of, so are you our image consultant? Is that what you do? Yes, but I also am a live coach and I also have advice. If you can book a one-on-one session with me, yeah, but I don't do any matchmaking or anything like that, but I can help you with your overall image. Here's my question, because I've actually had this discussion with friends too.  Both, both. Both at the same time? Look, therapists help you with clinical issues. I don't know if you're clinically depressed and I mean, you don't know either. Stop saying, stop saying, uh-uh, stop it. You don't know. You still find out what's going on with you, but life coaches and that kind of stuff, that's a completely different thing than clinical therapy.  It's exhausting. I'm sorry. But that's the point. You got to interact with other people and see one thing about only children, we tend to not learn how to play with others because we didn't have anybody.  Can I ask how you learned to do business? H frickin Christ.