So 630 calling me in the order and then we're going to introduce ourselves so we know who's who Starting with Gina Jamie Morby callous select board Jordan keys callous select board Seth Gardner East my players like board Carlit and I are East my pillars like board Are we going round and Winchester callous select board? I'm Cardi Bradley. I'm the callous town administrator and then start down there by the door James Dilling I'm Paul Boyer with the spot player fire Jay coffee smoke their fire Pulsar the chief would be fire Got a couple more chairs there. Is that could you mind making that this meeting is being recorded message going? Thank you Did my guts here and that's Albert on the end Yep, Coachella and Tom Parker All right, so do we have any additions to agenda looking at ours, so let's make sure they match Yeah, good good now did you want to open your meeting also for you Why don't you chair the joint meeting? Okay boys? All right? Thank you public comment hearing none I'll move to the next item. So okay So what I want to stress at this meeting That this is we're not trying to put down or denigrate the efforts of the East Montpelier emergency services This is a budgetary talk and we also I realize and we all realize Takes a huge amount of effort to keep the emergency services going in a lot of its volunteer labor So we're not here to put any of your efforts down. I want that understood at the beginning But we do have to talk about budget Especially with the increases that have come along over the years for the emergency services facility or services So the other thing about this meeting is because we have a lot of newbies on the slack boards I thought we should talk about the budget and all of us would understand a little more about it All right So the way we got on to this and let's look at the ambulance sheet Okay, I got it right here. Yep. All right, so if you look at the very top figure on East Montpelier volunteer fire department ambulance service draft to budget worksheet FY 630 25 ambulance Okay, everyone see that the very first figure there is 15,000 Does everybody know where that comes from? Where It's Wrong answer. Okay, it comes directly out of the ambulance revenue before money is contributed to the capital plan So the ambulance revenue goes 15,000 right off the top that's a voluntary Contribution that we worked out a few years ago because we're facing big increases And we talked to the ambulance service fire department about kicking some money back into the general budget That's where the $15,000 came in that figure is not written in stone That was something the town administrator worked out with us. We all talked about it. We put $15,000 now. It's still there Which is fine, but I want everyone to understand where that 15,000 came from that is completely voluntary You could come to us In the beginning of the budget season and say we can't afford to do that anymore and we could say well tough luck or whatever So everyone understand that 15,000 that's just that's just a contribution that we worked out with the fire department emergency services a few years ago When there are increases we're increasing increasing increasing like can you kick $15,000 back into it? It's still there because I think because no one really quite understood how it got there We all understood. Okay. Well, it's like boards do not Sources of revenue for the fire department are The the four towns, right? Yeah, they bill plus ambulance billing. Is that right? Mm-hmm. So the 15,000 must be coming from the ambulance building. That's the only other source of revenue Not from billing it comes from their care carries it comes from their direct revenue Yes, yeah, when they carry people they charge they get money the money comes in Incrementally, and it comes in sometimes years later So it's hard to figure out how much they take in but it averages like 160 or 170. That's correct Yeah, well, according to the budget sheet, I think it was about a hundred and forty Which you have I'm looking at the Orchid the balance sheet that was actually as of November And it says Capital plan but no, sorry. I'm confusing that with something else. I'm not seeing Yeah, I know it's around 160 170 And we used to get a sheet that said how much they took in every month But it didn't really relate to what they were charging out because it comes in late Sometimes it's three or four months after they charge it it comes in So it's always hard to target the figure that they're going to take in but it's averaging around the 160 170 The last thing I knew but anybody can correct me Yes, it's out. It's out at least 60 90 days and most of those Oh, I know that yeah, but I mean the gross figure that you guys take in on the ambulance side of things It's around 160 170, but Okay, I mean I mean you can correct me because believe me I'm just going by memory As of this year through December we brought in 97,000 so far, but that doesn't mean the second half is gonna be a strong. We don't know right Yeah, so about a hundred thousand you still have six months to go the budget period and student 30th So the year the fiscal year Okay, let me just just to be clear. Yeah of the of the amount they take in yes They they used to pay for billing out of that, but they're not anymore Okay, well, let's let's do that in a minute. I need to understand that but they also they can put 40,000 and up to 40,000 in a contingency fund already funded once it's already funded They can't put any more in right. It's up to 40,000 is fully funded right now And the rest goes into capital exactly but except for 15,000 the 15,000 coming off the top The other thing is the they decide to move the ambulance billing into their general budget And to take that money out of the money that they get from the town's no longer off the ambulance revenue Right, so that's what I was alluding to a minute ago last year. You just took the billing I'm sorry. I'm getting to get the terms right. They took the billing out of the receipts now instead You put the billing into operating so in effect. You're really only giving us 3,000 Is that right am I not doing that correctly? No, no, we're giving them 15,000 off the top The money comes in but there's a new line The new line down at the 12,000 which we're saying is you have now an expense of 12,000 A revenue of 15 the net is now three as opposed to previously revenue 15,000 They used to pay that out of the receipts So from our point of view, they're really only putting in 3,000 new money True, right Okay, that's what I wanted to be saying Okay, so I'm not okay, so I'm not accusing them of playing a shell game But what they said was we want to take it out of we want that to be out of the budget the 12,000 but really We could have just said well, we'll put put the 12,000 you have to contribute 12,000 on the top And then you can still take it out of your budget Correct. Yeah, the 15 can be 27. All I'm trying to do right now is understand I know I know I know I know I know I know That's why we're here. Okay. Okay All right, so the other thing that comes off the top is the ambulance intercept Paramedic That figure is very variable. That's right. That's correct. What is it? What was that last year? 66 I think it's a 6600 something like that. 6600 Which is very variable. Yeah, so that's coming out of the receipts And as they get them Because it's a very variable figure. They don't know when they're going to need to hire. It's a higher EMT right of some kind But they don't always need to hire parametric So that's different from the two people that you have on staff. Correct. You also hire the parametric We might have to call a man if there's a need for paramatically Yeah, so that they don't know what that figure is So they're just taking that out of the receipts Okay, and that is Passed through on the billing Correct Right You pay them and you charge the people who are transported. Correct. So that's part of your call. Yeah While the transforming agency Generally bills for the call so We charge insurance company x amount of dollars And whatever we get back in return. We don't know because it's insurance Yeah, and then we have to pay The agency that provided us the parametric That fee which comes off that And are you going to charge the insurance company more if you have to have a parametric intercept than if you don't That is all governed by The people that do our billing. So if you do x Interventions as a parametric. Okay It it's worth this amount of money. Uh-huh And it might be worth two thousand dollars. Okay, and so that gets built to the patient and then Insurance companies pay what they pay Okay, what you get But if you call a parametric the parametric comes and turns out doesn't need to do anything Then you don't have any interventions to bill for right. Is that correct? But you still have to pay the parametric Yes Thank you, and sometimes we have a parametric on staff And we can bill at those higher rates and provide parametric interventions right and that money there's no we don't charge an extra 200 bucks for that parametric because he's in house. So we right we can bill that directly We could cost Okay So any any questions on what we've covered You sure are any time so not to get it confused just want to clarify. Yes What what you're asking is To increase our budget by three thousand dollars. No Yes, that's what you're doing. Oh, I am By us contribute by taking the 15 asking us to contribute another 15. Well, I might be more What that's the purpose of the meeting the 15 I just threw out there I did talk talk the end But it's up to the collective wisdom here how much we could increase that figure or not at all We we don't have to increase that figure, but I want to have a little more conversation about the expenses Seth can I ask one more question? Yeah, just a step back about the billing. Yeah Um for For the paramedic versus a non paramedic call Does the insurance company? Require that you differentiate between those types of personnel or is that just something that you that you kind of self-employed Like a differentiation that you self-employed to To kind of keep billing costs down for for calls to patients Well, I'm not quite I'm not sure I understand your question But nothing I can think about is in the concept of you're sick. Yeah, you go and see your primary care doctor That hospital visit or doctor's office visit Might be worth a hundred fifty dollar charge or five hundred dollar charge You talk to your doctor and he does x y and z and it's another You know $200 charge on top take that same visit and turn it into an er visit And you go to er to see the er doc all of a sudden that's a $1,200 walk-in charge Just because you went to the ur and then the doctor does what they do and that's another 500 charge on top of that So it's the same concept to us and if he shows up We can do certain things and they have pre-determined figures, you know, you do this idea. It's a 500 dollar bill To the patient you do this. It's a 200 But if a paramedic does something It's a higher fee For what they can do So if a paramedic does what an emt does we can't charge extra Because the paramedic did It's based on the skill Necessary to do what it is Oh, that's what it's based on So when you send a paramedic, you don't always know whether it's necessary or not Right, but there are protocols that dictate What paramedics should be responding to I gotcha Usually anything with pain admitted a patient says i'm in extreme pain Yeah, you're calling a paramedic really paramedics are the only ones that can administer pain control, right?  I got a minister pain control. Yeah, gotcha So sometimes what if you get there and you need a paramedic you don't have one you have to call one in Yeah, that's we call one in yeah And sometimes it can be an extended, but we don't stop what we do We don't wait at the scene for the medic to arrive We soup and go yeah, we might eat them at the bottom of the hill near the hospital Yeah, who knows where we'll be right? So then what you go to the hospital and paramedic follows you behind and then well the paramedic hops in with us and starts Doing what they do. Yeah. Yeah, right in the end. Oh, right. Gotcha Interesting And and we get billed out. We never get what we bill out because you know, I'll have Yeah, right. Oh, that's kind of the root of my question, you know, how much scrutiny are these billing rates and You know, I think it's interesting to bring up it like if there was a paramedic in house You know, there's some efficiency there because you would have one in house But then you also need to make sure that you're you're billing the time out Accordingly and I was just curious whether or not there's room in in the the rates for the service to To increase that but it doesn't sound like it. It's it's relative to Whatever the procedure is that is being And it's all governed by medicare and medicare Right. It's not like I can sit there and say well for me to hop in and anyone's come see you It's worth 500 bucks. And I'm just gonna pay for 500 bucks So to get back to the billing what they bill for and what they get are two different figures. So it's around. Is this 70% or something? Yeah It's 70 off percent of What they bill for and what they get that's the difference. Yeah So they might bill for 200 000 and they're going to get 70 140 okay right, so Any more questions? No and I can see the wheels turning. Oh, no, I didn't quite understand what you were saying earlier You said the difference to if we took if we asked for another 15,000 on that first line item The difference to you would be 3 000. I didn't I didn't follow that Well, it would be because we switched over the three yamlons billing Is 12 000 because you're counting the ambulance. So you're increasing our depth Got it by 3 000. Got it. Okay. Thank you Okay, so just to go over some interesting figures here and because really The bottom line is The costs have gone up a lot for providing ambulance service And that's a big concern. It's just going to be sustainable for the towns to keep paying for this So the ambulance service in 2014 the budget was 95 000 East bauphillier portion. Yeah, east bauphillier portion The east bauphillier portion now At the ask is 293 000. So it's gone up three times in 10 years Tripled is that sustainable? Yes, but the bulk of that increase was due to staffing Because at the back then we were more volunteer. Oh, I know I've been part of it. So now I know You know, it's not that we've increased You know the Trucks more often or bought all this other equipment. It's it was strictly staffing if you take the staffing out You can drop 360 000 off your budget. Yeah, but we can't do that. We can't take it out It's like saying it's not fair to compare 2014 numbers to today when you Think of the staffing increases. That's all it's just what's costing the town That's all I'm just saying bottom line Whether it's whatever it is. It's just expensive. So yes, what's that? What do you pay stuff? Does everybody get the same rate? No, and for level this 16 and change an hour Up to paramedics that was across only I say only get 20 women change But it's very tough to find people that work by the day and that's what they're doing It's not paid staff. It's People that you may find to work On a on a on a day basis I just wanted to take so you have two full-time staff. Yeah seven days a week So 14 times 52 Times let's just say 20. How much that's what you would need approximately. Well, that doesn't figure payroll taxes Pay to What do you mean? That's not even benefits This is a separate line item. There are no benefits. There's absolutely no benefits and payroll tax is a separate line item So it should be a direct. You should just be able to take an average on your age and figure it out So they're not covering the shift from Midnight to eight right all the time. We try and we try and have two people in house 24 seven Yeah, yeah, I know that that was uh, you were that was your goal Yeah, and I'm just suggesting if you do that I just just somebody I'm not very good at this. Yeah, if we multiply let's I'll just take $40 an hour 20 dollars an hour Yeah, yeah times two That's right 40 dollars an hour Times 365 Oh, that's $5,000. 365 times 24. That's right. That's 24 times today Okay Times 365 how much is that 350,000? Yeah, 350,400 dollars. Yeah, okay. So Couldn't we knock that down them since you're asking for 274 Actually, you're asking for 275 almost Why do we need all that because you're paying some of them less Oh, yeah, and you don't have someone more too. No, well some are more but the highest is 21 and that's a paramedic So I took an average of 20 which I think is probably wrong So I couldn't you're right on Yeah, you're right on So Sorry, that's why So couldn't that number be more like what did you say 350? Yeah, instead of 375s. Yeah, are there ever times there's more than two people on? No, but I also Built this year into that was an increase because there again we We create salary line items and they become stagnant That even I as a in my stipend as long as I've been a member East Montpelier It's been $9,400 that's been split up by Our formula system that we use and it's been that amount as long as I've been a member if not longer And it doesn't seem increased So the salary includes other stipends and No, that's This salary All the salary is people that hire for me and And they're in the in the building to jump in the ambulance when there's a call And we moved to this they moved to it. They had to because Is burning out volunteers number one number two the state requires more and more training all the time so They I mean I understand how it works. They had to go to more trained people That they had to hire and they're hiring them as cheaply as they can but they still have to pay competitively Okay, and not only they have to pay competitively They're not On salary if they're on salary that line would be a lot more because then you'd have to pay benefits So they're doing it as cheaply as possible And still getting good people in there. I'm sympathetic to what they're doing So would you agree though that an average of 20 dollars an hour two people? I mean the the math we just did is right It's not that it's not out of line It's it's what they have to pay. Yeah, right. So so they've put an extra 25 000 almost in there Right, right the the point. Oh, I see what you're saying. They're asking for 375 Yeah, right. Yes, but a lot of them are less than 20. Yeah, but okay. So our our job's not really to have them I know but when I asked if you could get the amount down J I think it was said you tell us where yeah, so I started thinking I mean I couldn't do that right sit in there But now I'm thinking about it. Yeah, and I'm telling you I think I found a place. Okay Is there any issues? I don't think we're worrying anyone's power. Is there any overtime? There's lots of overtime and there's also the the fact that again, we don't pay We don't offer benefits to there. We are competitive or there's competition out there Because we don't have benefits then people are going to go somewhere where they're going to a get paid more and b get benefits So we end up with overtime on things We increase about it and I am not looking at the numbers right now But we paid x number of dollars and in salaries last year, which was significant I think one of the things you have to think about is if we cut Back on our salaries cut back on a personnel You may not get an ambulance with somebody on it and really have to think about that If you were to do some research and see the different Towns in the state and different towns across the country. You're going to see this isn't just us This is a situation that's out there. It costs more to do what we do It's not just training. It's not just salaries It's time that's put into a number of things our medications cost more Everything costs more fuel costs more and all these different items are in that I'm afraid to cut back on our salaries Because we might end up cutting back on people and if I get an ambulance and I can't get it because I need to get one from Very city or very town or williams town because I don't have staff in house. I'm not going to be happy as a taxpayer I'm not asking you to cut back on salaries. I'm using the numbers you just gave me Right Well, you just mentioned cut back on salaries. You think you have found a place and I don't think that's the place where we can cut back on But maybe if I heard I think one thing is the overtime Right, I mean that's part of what's in here is their point is if they're having to pay people over time That is going to drive that hourly rate. That is where the math won't work Yeah, and there are times when we have calls words not you may have two people on the truck We might need two or three or four people on the truck We have a Calls are a little more complicated than they used to be and sometimes two people is not enough Sometimes we need four people now the ambulance and that happens more and more. I think And right now we're calling in volunteer firefighters and folks to help us in situations Because we need extra hands and that's just the way the world is right now We have a lot more older people. We don't get a lot of money back from Medicare and Medicaid some population ages Those of the insurance companies are going to pay us and they don't want to give us a lot of money so the percentage of Of the money that they bill for Could drop because they're serving older people That have Medicaid that doesn't pay well Medicaid pays horrible. They're starting to pay less. So tom had something to say I think down there get his hand up Well, there's a lot of calls where there may be a paramedic on duty We have to call in a paramedic because in the age of the call We still have to pay for that paramedic and we don't get any revenue out of it whatsoever Because if we don't transport that happens quite frequently That could be throwing your numbers off is that When we we've hired, you know, several new people recently the last few months one of them is sitting right here And when they come in for training We have a program where it's a 40-hour training program that they have to be paid for So that so we're running three people on on shift that we have to pay for three And that's because I'm the one that's doing the payroll and that actually can add up Yeah, but these guys have got to get to be trained When they come in we just can't let them Go at it. We used to train and Not compensate them and we got our hands slapped pretty good Yeah, yeah Okay, so I want to I want to move to a couple of things Revenue on the revenue side I got just a couple questions on The billing for your ambulance carries There's no Inflation number in there built into that you're always getting the same amount of money from year to year But I don't understand So inflation say the inflation is three to four to five percent The money that you take in from a carry is not going to go up from five years ago Because what you're saying is in the equipment line You need to have more money in your capital budget because equipment costs more money understood But usually on the revenue side of things Inflation kicks in also and you're getting more revenue on a percentage basis Just inflation You should be getting in more money for the carries that you take You would think so if the insurance companies are willing to give us that increase I'm not sure they're going to do that. Great. We did get a thing from the state Like through Medicare for extra money from the state. Yeah, and then you'll see online item number 5535 there's a number. It's at four thousand seven hundred dollars. Well, that's what the state of them are taxed us for giving us an increase They gave us gave us a dollar and took about sixty five cents back Okay, all right. So now the next question Is you have contracts with Marshfield and Plainfield? Years ago we had the conversation and Are you charging them on a per head basis per population Are you charging them a competitive rate with say another ambulance service that Could be in the game What are you, you know the mythology behind that rate? Is that been straightened out? I really honestly, I don't think I could answer that question because those are numbers that were created several years ago. Yep. And I know the powers to be back then. Yep Truthfully didn't share some of their calculations. That was a deal that kind of was done Prior administration prior administration. I understood so I've been I've been part of that conversation we're charging them No, I don't I think I think there's room to increase those charges I do too But I I'm not part of that I was not part of that contract negotiation But if I was doing the contract negotiation, I would find out what a competitive service Would charge them and I know it's by the population and I know it's by the people that are in the town And then I would do some math and say oh if I really want the business I charge a dollar or two less a head, but I don't think that's what happened And I think that's a number that could be looked at. Yeah, so I think that's what we are Yeah, so we were actually talking about this just the other night Um, I certainly agree with you Uh-huh It is to say what Albert alluded to that this was done outside of us. Yeah, this this negotiations Um, unfortunately one of the issues that we're looking at is that we're within that contract period Understood so that it won't come due until next year. Yeah, so so but those issues that you just mentioned Yeah, are going to be addressed But they need we're in the problem understood understood, but I thought I'd bring it up because I don't think it's been addressed Yeah, I certainly agree with what you're Yeah Yes, sir, and I guess I would That's I think it's a meaningful It's meaningful that you've gotten to the point where we're willing to look at that and do the calculus there and and revisit it That should always be revisited on a fairly regular basis, you know, I which is permanent Which I which is what I appreciated about some of the previous presentations about call volumes and and demand one of my concerns about that is you can Start increasing your rates and trying to get more competitive to try to bring in more revenue And if they shop around their services and decide that they are no longer going to renew that contract That then puts the full weight of the carrying the budget back on callus and he's not billion. So I'm not I'm not Trying to say anything other than it if if that is a dialogue that as a group we're all Trying to work towards I I think it'd be worth Thinking about how these interlocal agreements work out so that we are we are keeping everybody bound into the same budgets because if people can just pull out Or not renew their their contracts in a way that makes the budgets Balanced as best they can be then that can be That can have a significant impact on on the carrying costs for for I'm not disagreeing with anybody. I know so far, but they would in a contract negotiation you find out what a competitive Operation would charge them.  Hey, we're a little bit under But I think we're a lot under right now if you figure out I mean, I know what the figures are Roughly and it's a lot under yeah I would just say that if we're going to be discussing any particular contracts and anything more than the most general terms that we Should consider going into an executive session. We're not doing that. We're not no, we're not talking specifics We're talking generalities very good So anyway, so the contracts that we've been talking about will be coming due in 2025 And we'll have to send a letter out Probably july of this year to inform them so that we start talks by september. Yeah I think that um, we talked about this before About the contracts being done With slack boards being part of the conversation And I think that's important now whether it could be a representative from the slack board to be part of the contract talks Whatever we talked about this years ago Um, I just think that it's uh, it's an important Contract that should be negotiated carefully Then they'd make a motion or something that one select man from e-spot pair and tell us Join us when we start this process next september No, what could wait Yeah, hold up. Hold up. What's the what? Well, they're gonna want to be involved in your contract Plainfield will say well, we want to be involved in how much e-spot player contributes to the budget. I don't think so Surely because you're doing it to them Yeah, so let's Let's let's back up in that motion. Do you think marshfield or some town would want to be part of our It would be unfair to say we'll do the we need to go there But you can't come here. So I think that's a conversation for us. I'm not so sure about that Yeah, well, it's not about Yeah, well, whatever it's not a conversation even to have until next July All right, well Whatever so the time frame is july of 2024 when we're gonna approach them about the new rental locals. Okay. Thank you Okay so, um I guess let's circle back around to Any money that we want to put in that adds to 15 000 or not or take out the 15 000 What does everyone want to do now? I think the reason that we had this conversation. So we all understood what was happening with the budget Are we clear? No, no, that's okay. I want to know more about the capital fund because the rest of the money goes into the capital fund Exactly. Well, so could we talk about that for me? Let me just make one comment about that You have to fund the contingency fund first if they drew money out of that That has to be satisfied up to the 40 000. You said it's already full though. It's full right now But i'm just saying in the future So the contingency We used to tap it throughout the year And then I think it was one meeting we had with the select boards And they said you really shouldn't be doing it that way That contingency is a year-end thing if all of a sudden you find yourself you can't pay x dollars with the bills because You know a budget is the best guess I really have no clue what i'm spending next Once i'm approved this budget what we're spending at the end of june of 2025. Yeah, I have no clue So it's a best guess what it's going to take to operate this department. Yeah And so in the event we're short because Whatever all of these expenses are up we have to Contingencies our insurance plan. So if we have to take 10 grand from that To close out the year and be Neutral zero We do that then the following month when we get our annuals revenue. It's a 25 75 split 25 goes to contingency. Yeah 75 goes to capital Once we built that back up to 40 grand All the money goes to capital Didn't I understand Seth to say and you tell me if that's right the the contingency fund is already full So you don't need any from this year. It is right now So you don't need any from this year's well, we might we don't know they're not until the end of the year The fiscal year ends june 30th. Oh We're halfway through it. I see they made a tap into they may not But they the way albert said it is every month 25 percent was going to contingency 75 in the capital But they haven't had to do that for a while not since for a few years yeah, okay, so Getting back to the 15,000 or 15,000 or 20,000 Could I hear how much is in the capital fund? I think it's here. Yeah That is Is that the 233,000 220 233 right 433 233. Yeah Yeah, and Let me Do I understand the process when you want to buy new capital equipment as you buy it out of this You don't go to the towns and ask for a bond. Oh wait. No, no, no. This is okay. Let's let's talk about that Yeah, please. Okay on the fire truck that they just bought it was 450,000. Okay So, um, what they decided to do Versely came to select for it. They decided to pay for 250 Yourselves. Yeah, they decided to take but they don't they don't they're not going to spend that money out of the capital And they're going to make they're going to borrow that and they're going to make payments out of the capital Money, okay The 200,000 dollars that they are asking the towns for East Montpelier Gave them some and cows to give them some Okay, that's just a decision that they made in conjunction with the select boards They said well, this is what we'd like to do and we feel this would be Acceptable to you. They're diplomatic. They don't want to spend all the money the 450,000 in finance the whole thing They thought it would be fair if the towns contributed some money also I'm sorry.  Okay. Okay. All right So so they decided that the towns could pay the 200,000 They were going to pay the 250 for the truck that they're buying right now And the towns each had a did a bond for 200,000. No, no Well, I don't want to get into your personal finances But we had the money in our capital plan to pay the 100 and whatever it was 135,000 out of your capital. Yes We paid two-thirds of the remainder of the truck right the 200,000 dollars that they did not have They asked for the towns We're paying 135 of that and you're paying 65 We've already more or less paid Our part. Oh, that's the 60. We did that. That's right. Did you pay that? No, we've paid our share, but I don't want to get into your finances and say you pay your share Could you tell me the last thing you can't say? We have a loan. We are paying 16 a year through 29 So they so you guys took out a loan. We just paid our share Okay Okay, but we put it to the town voters by Australian ballot Do you want to pay x amount of money towards the fire truck and the voters said yes So in the future when they have huge expenses, they could ask the towns for part of the money It's up to them Or they could say well finance the whole thing and they've done that before so they're pretty flexible on Capital purchases, but anything over 25,000 they have to come to the select board and and talk to them about it and ask them 25 Number one for the two administrators Administrator here I called I called Last week about giving you a bill from towing That has not come through to me yet Um, so I was going to type one up for you and sort of to get it to you and as it is you as well We'll be needing that Probably in two to two to three weeks So I don't know how you want to if you if you want to just Send it to towing you can send it to we can send it to you. I mean we just kind of check to you Yeah, that would be better than you could pay towing when you need to so that'll be I'll I'll send that off to you This week. Yeah, if you gave that to me this week That's great because we could cut we will cut checks on Monday for the select board meeting So I would have that check ready for you more of a request For that money. Yeah versus a letterhead would point like last time for four years. I mean we know we know what the amount is So we've already wanted to send me. Yeah, I mean even if you just sent me an email honestly, paul That's fine. I could print that out and so it'd be just for a request Yeah, you know for that money and I'll do the same for catalyst. Yeah. Yeah There's also to follow up on this capital capital money, yeah You did say a couple of things in there that I need to let you know what we've decided as a board Okay fund this truck our part of the truck. Yeah, we've decided to To take a loan for 150. Yeah Yeah Yeah 150 we're going to take a loan and then put the difference in from the capital. Yeah Take it Yeah, just to let you know that what we're doing. Okay It'll be a seven-year note for 6.5 Yeah, which is not too bad. Yeah for seven years of because so so in are you clear on the capital for capital plan? Yes, thank you for okay, so so yes, paul one more thing just Hopefully this will ease you some of your minds those reading the barry town select board meeting. Yeah minutes From december. Yeah, they just purchased a truck. Yeah for $839,000. Yeah And we just purchased it for 450. Yeah And what are their bids they had for the same truck as 1.1 million? So that's the kind of equipment That's out there, but but you realize they're serving a lot of people So we're trying to spread our costs over a lot fewer people. Well, no as far as the purchase I know a truck. Yeah. Yeah, there's been a truck. Yeah, that's right a truck Right, so we're trying to keep this thing down As far as the purchase of the overall purchase of that truck. Yeah, they're trying to you're trying to go Way up here. We work down here, but but something to remember. It's like a big barn with few cows in It's like you've got a lot of overhead and you gotta spread it over as many people as possible They've got a lot more population to serve and more people to draw So that's just what happens. So I'm not trying to put you down I'm just saying it's a lot. We have a lot of overhead. Yeah trucks are expensive. Yeah, we have a lot of overhead for the population So it's like me trying to pay my bills with 10 cows. Okay. Well, I can't do it. So I got a book 300 So anyway, okay, so any more questions I think we've made a lot of progress about understanding how the finances work. So the question is The reason Do you want to increase to have 15 000 which is coming off the top of the ambulance revenue? At least the 12 to at least the 12 or just called another 15, which is what I proposed to start with Which paul said correct to me said well, we're only asking we're only doing 12 Understood Well, we move we move 12 over. Yeah You move 12 over into that Into the ask so to speak. So can I say something? Yeah, you should go for any further One of the items I think that they put the Increase in the budget. Yeah over that double digit. Yeah was dispatched. Yeah Yeah, I know Which we have no control I understood and yeah what we did was Some of it was it was off. It was off out of balance Yeah, the ambulance or the fire was absorbing a lot of it. So we made it level So if we go back the other way, it's going to drop that Below it's going to move it to the fire right fire. So you're not going to see that double digit increase Yeah, so it's it's just a shell game, right? Yes, paul, I mean great sorry items between the dispatch and our insurances those two line items is a little hard Yeah, they have to spend yeah Yeah, so If we if we ask for another 15,000 off the top of the ambulance revenue the only thing that's going to affect is their Capital that's it Yes, paul You're so vocal I was talking to someone the other day And that 15,000. Okay over the next five years Is going to take away a new utility truck for from us. That's what it's going to cost You've just taken that away from us Oh, okay But that's that's how I won't say what I would usually say when someone says that to me Don't be polite I just want to express to you how this I know how Yeah capital count works. Yeah, it's it was never intended to pay The operating cost of the department. It was okay. Let me correct you on that because I've been part of this a long time When this was sold to the town I'll never forget larry brown came in here. I was on the planning commission. He said this is a no-brainer All the ambulance revenue we're going to take in is going to pay all the expenses Oh, okay. That was that was how it sold to town. It got passed and then all of a sudden All of a sudden it's like, oh, no, that's not going to do that. We can't do that. We can't do that I'm like, oh Jesus Yeah, it was supposed to pay It was supposed to pay for the for the new building Okay, it was going to take it was going to pay for all of the expenses are all of the purchase of the new building Oh, yeah, okay. We were then advised as found out by attorneys that was illegal. Yeah, so they come up with the agreement That the towns were paid for the budget. Yeah, and the revenue would pay for capital. Yeah Well, anyway Okay, and or uh, wait a minute Yeah, yeah, yeah I just for me I still I think of like when you were talking about the numbers For the new town garage last week and that's just going to add seven cents per hundred Well, that was just rough figuring out. I get it. That's a figure But when you look at the money we're asking for what's that going to add for hundred to your tax bill Well, I have a penny. Not very much right Yeah, but you know I could add to that this this year in particular We have sat down with our budget and we've been counting the thousands of dollars to cut from this year. Yeah, and so I think that I don't want to discredit anybody's contribution tonight. I think you know we're It Standing standing by itself As as a budget item Sure that positioning is is a fair consideration. We're talking about cents, but We've been looking at the cumulation of cents this year in a way that like some towns are looking at 20% increases In their in their town budgets from last year We've been we've been fortunate to whittle ours down over some pretty painstaking conversations of things that we're Not going to be funding this year and and and cutting out things with Handshake agreements saying we'll we'll revisit it next year and and I think that's kind of the nature of Of of why we're having this conversation. Absolutely. Every one of these towns right now is looking at some really hard Conversations and and completely valid point about about The payroll expenses and and needing to pay for the talent that you need to operate You know that that is fair, but you know, we're just trying to have a workable conversation around Where we might be able to to save some money this year Because we're the ones who are going to have to stand in front of the towns and say This is why it's 18 percent. This is why it's 17 percent even if it's 12 or 8 percent like It all adds up Basically, we're talking you're right. We're talking pennies But we got we we talk pennies every day. Gina our administrator here. She's working as a chef Can we cut this out as a few hundred dollars?  I feel is just me personally That what we provide is I consider an essential service True that yeah, if there comes time where money is tight And the fire department's asking for a hundred and any other organizations asking for money We take from them and give it to the fire department because it's essential Um, and I'm not saying we can't trim some money here and there. I'm sure we can and I'm trying to Have the most open door open book No secrets no numbers hidden no double books where oh, these are my real numbers, but this is what I'm showing You know, and I I really want to be out there because I want you to see and understand what we go through Day in and day out and it's a challenge. It really is and You know, we're the only organization of all the departments that has to contribute our money back in To fund ourselves To the sheriff's department, whatever you pay them a year. Do they do you sit there and say well, can you contribute 15 grand towards that? 75 you want us to fund or the library? Uh committee for them. We're the only department In between these towns that actually gives money back because we understand we feel the pain But we're also the ones that really most of a lot of us volunteer And we run into burning buildings and I won't ask for a penny for that You know and it just it kind of I hate to say it burns me to sit there and think over pennies That we got to give up something for pennies when we were to walk in the burning buildings and try and save lives Or through covet everybody stay at home. Be safe And we're charging into homes dealing with sick people that if we slip one little thing we forget It could be our death sentence And what do I get in return? Can you save me? $10,000 on my budget this year Unfortunately, we have to have conversations about budgets. We represent 2,500 people in this town They expect us to have these conversations And I'm sorry that you would take it personally because we're not trying to make it personal We appreciate what you do every single day but The same it's always been brought up to us when we talk about budget that you guys are saving our lives We understand that and we appreciate that but we're also in another position being answerable to a lot of people So we have to have the conversation You know this is the way it is so yes so we've talked a fair amount about rising costs for various things and inflation in general and Just to put some perspective into these figures that we have for the East Montpelier contribution Which is proportional to the callous contribution Then I went to the bureau of labor statistics and found an inflation calculator there And You're absolutely correct in nominal dollars Seth that it's just over a three times increase from 2014 to 2025 proposed If you run it through the inflation calculator, then the 95 five from 2014 Is worth 125 200 in In 20 at the end of 2023, which is most recent time that they had inflation calculated for Um, so which is basically now so With that then the rate of increase total is 2.35 times instead of three times, which you know, it's uh over a little over 10 years Is it sustainable for the town? So that's still a very steep rate of increase But it's it's less than three and I wanted to just get that out there in the record Okay, so let's circle yes Ian. Um, I just want to go back to what you said about We're taking away a vehicle Um, I don't understand I need to understand that better because from what the discussion we just had about how the capital equipment works There are lots of other ways you could get the vehicles You could ask us for the money when you're ready to buy the vehicle You could ask us to to ask the town to float a bond or to take a loan So I don't think we're taking away I just have one feeling that that's right. I think when the what set the mood earlier about larry brown, which I was not on the board then Well, that's okay. It's just the history of the stock The intent of the capital account the way it's working now Is that that's what is supposed to fund our capital equipment And not and so we're not going to the taxpayers For these other items like a smaller one like the 75 000 truck that he's talked about utility vehicle They would have the money put in like we do the town does the same thing We have a capital plan so we can pay cash for something, you know, if it's a huge item, then it's going to be different Yeah, so we got air bottles that are coming up. They didn't need to be replaced We wouldn't be going to the town saying they would be 45 000 dollars for air bottles Right, we're going to be but if you if we keep Taking that off out of the out of that account every year. Yeah, we're going to be taking at the end of the year You're going to be taking quite a big you're taking 30 000 dollars out of it But you've got two plus two hundred and thirty three thousand in there Well, you won't after they got paid 150 out of it But and it does build up fairly quickly because they take in 160 170 a year and it could be even more this year Yeah, so all we're saying is Put a little less in this year. Exactly That's what we're saying.  It could be just this year, you know, who knows what's going to happen because The point of me pointing this out to 15 000 is I wanted everyone to understand This is something That we asked them years ago They keep putting it in there, but they don't have to and we don't have to ask them of it Or we could ask them for more it's or less. It's a discretionary item So So this year we don't want to pay that 15 000 Okay, so so okay, so there's another go-around Albert and I don't want to I I could say this And I don't want to play the shell game, but we could we could approve the budget And he's popular for ten thousand dollars or twenty thousand dollars less than you asked for And then you are going to have to tighten your belts and be annoyed and take money out of the continuously Yes Well, this is different right now Because I wanted this meeting to be transparent and everyone to be on the same page even though people make it annoyed We're not trying to do anything behind anybody's back. It's right out here in front The bottom line is whatever you folks decide to do exactly we pretty much have to accept it because yes, if We lose any bit of money From any one of you. We're basically out of business Well, you're not out of business because you have a continuously fund. So that was the point of saying What I'm saying is I know right in other words we we I'd say we got a You you're doing the same bet you're depending on We depend on you like you depend on I know okay, so we're all going on that. Okay, zoe I'm new and I'm young and I'm ignorant um, but I was having some thoughts about the general direction that it seems like Um, the situation is heading and not even locally, but nationally. Um, it's really struck by what you're saying about The declining reimbursement for medicated Medicare The aging population in our towns um The rising expense of everything the difficulty in retaining young able-bodied workers And I'm wondering if it would make sense to um Somehow start I feel like if our like if the public Was educated in terms of how hard it is To make these systems work even maybe gradually it seems like people would Maybe eventually Warm to the idea of having taxes increased It's but because it faced with a um question of do you want a fire department or not? Do you want ambulances or not? I think most people would rather pay A slightly higher tax than maybe be faced with like Like trying to make a Kickstarter online to get an ambulance to come to their house Maybe not like for this year, but it seems like it's gonna this is not gonna necessarily get easier Um, it seems like okay. Well, there are different options But we're not here to talk about that about ambulance service We're just trying to keep the ambulance service going and trying to keep The projected increase Down a little bit right so we're not trying to put imagines. No, no, no, but there are other words with There are other options when it comes to ambulance service if we so choose to explore them Okay, so we're not going there right now. Okay. We are trying to keep everything together as we view it and The purpose of the meeting is just to talk about this contribution that we asked for Over the years the 15 000 or 20 000 or 30 000 That I think that we need to narrow our focus right now. Yes, paul. So just another Thing to throw out country chatting to be thinking about An easier way to do it. Yeah That that would in my mind about this can taking money out of the contingency As far as what how everybody used that we don't want to take it out of the country. So But it is a tool not to condit the capital. Yes. So why don't we just go back to the way we used to do it? Have the ambulance billing or proposal to you to think about Is is have the ambulance billing pay for that the Ambulance revenue pay for the ambulance billing out of the budget. Okay. So the reason that you put that in there Was the pain in the butt that we have to every month Make transfers to do that. Right. And so that's fine the way you're doing it It's transparent. That's in your budget now. Okay But we should be asking you for more money out of the ambulance revenue On the back door of it. So that covers it. That's all Then so so the 15,000 Could be 27,000 or whatever and that covers the money that you're not putting taking out the ambulance revenue anymore It just covers it the a different way Yeah, but I was trying to cover your ambulance Med Paramedic services Yeah, that's okay. I'm just rounding it up. I'm just rounding it up. We're trying to dig it back I'm just trying to be somewhat aggressive about addressing this. So we're gonna meet you in the middle. Oh, well, okay, we'll see So I want to hear from the callus like board on this You're increasing I think they're under the impression that you may they may not think you're doing that Oh, I think they do. I don't they're not done. They know what I'm doing or trying to do Okay, you understand what we're doing It's pretty it pretty easy. What is asking for 15,000 More than the 15 that are already contributing out of the ambulance revenue They take in 160 170 they take a 97,000 less six months So hopefully the next six months they take in another 97,000. Who knows? But they're annoyed that we're doing that Correct. Yeah So there you go So What are your folks? What would your folks like to do? I think their budget was Very Trimmed and sparse and they tried to keep it as tight as possible Walmart starts people at $18 an hour. They're paying paramedics 21 no benefits, you know, it I'm not questioning. Is there like a personnel and they need resources to put towards new use things and I just I don't feel it's an area That It's an essential service. So okay in that camp and what do you think? I think To echo what Jordan said we worked really hard to get our budget down to about 7% increase They're asking us for over a 12% increase in the ambulance budget. Yep correct And it does seem to me That we're not asking them to reduce any services We're just asking them to look on the capital side and be a little more creative Maybe it means you're going to have to take out a loan Maybe it means we're going to have to go ask the town for a little bit more at some point But we're not trying to starve you We're trying to to bring a reasonable budget To our voters. Yeah, because they're struggling too. They're having a really hard time this year There are people out there who are really hurting And we're doing our best to keep the budget down and it seemed what I would hope is that we could get your budget down to 7% would be great. That's what we're going for. I'm not going to ask you to do that But I don't taking 15 000 out of your capital fund. I just I'm I'm not hearing that that's going to be a horrible hardship for you guys Yeah, so we're going to increase my proposal Which annoys everybody on the fire department aimed on service Is to raise the 15 000 to 30 000? So they would take 30 000 out of the 160 170 and put that into their general budget That was my thought And it's not a permanent thing. We can change it next year. Yes. Can we keep that billing nine item that for the 12 000 in that budget? Yes, yeah Yeah, of course you would You've already committed to that I feel and that's fine. It's it's an easier for you to put that in your budget It's easy to take the ambulance revenue and put it back in That's the easy That's my thought There's yours just right now. Sure as a member of the I'll support that All right so And I concur with everything you just said I Would be comfortable with moving it to 27 instead of 30 to Be a sort of even switch. So it seems to me that 12 000 Came out of the revenue last year anyway And so switching it back. Yeah, giving it back to us is sort of an even keel and so I'm just you know, whether we're on our yanky. I'm a yanky trick I don't have strong feelings on the 12 or 15, but I do think that you know, it's a year that we're all Tighten in the bell and Yeah, it's got to be everybody. It's not every every segment of our budget.  I would just assume do the 15 Me too I'm fine with the 15 I don't have jordan. This is jordan strong feelings. Are you comfortable with that? Yeah, I'm comfortable with with either of them I'm looking at the budget This is my tool I'm not I'm not recording Like tweeting My understanding set then with that is that uh, we're not proposing any any cuts to to change to the budget budget. We're just Right. Yeah The budget that's a tricky territory when you start entering all these years. They're guessing We're guessing right. I mean, I'm not I appreciate. No, I I appreciate that and I know they've done a lot of work. That's the last minute All that we put anybody in a fixed situation and they've done a lot of work So we have to trust them and I know they you know, we're trusting all we're doing is asking for the aim Most revenue to go into The top line The 15,000 and I think that's I mean for me. I think that's we should do but I'm asking for everyone's opinion So I want to be on the same page Okay, okay so I'm curious about one other thing. Um, since we're all in the room I guess there's comment made that um, there are certain ways that funds from the towns Could be contributed to various various things Like to building and that you know legal input was that that was a a legal The funds from the towns had to be going toward operating expenses only or Or can they go toward anything? Well, I think the revenue ambulance revenue Was was not legally because it was a town bond. Yeah, we couldn't pay for that bond. Oh, yeah And we got that bond During the 2008 depression recession that nobody thought we'd ever be bonded I mean get a get a building through the tax page. Yeah, great period Yeah Okay, Albert just one other thing related to capital. Yeah, that's something I'm putting out to both towns to think about as the building Is aging. Yeah And the building requires capital upkeep um and like one thing I found out I was looking at paperwork that The town of East Montpilers has funds set aside in the capital for the emergency services building And as an example our well pump failed two years ago We paid for it out of our Pocket sewer lift pump failed. I think last year we paid for it out of our pocket, but those would have been probably capital Expenses repairs for the building. Yeah, and how How we do that going forward because those were small ticket items, but if the roof has to get replaced in two years How what portion does the town pay versus the fire department versus Well, the town owns the building so they probably have to pay for it That's the short answer Yeah, the town owns it. All right that bill would be split Two thirds one third because calisone's one third of the building Which to me that was a bad decision for calis to buy real estate in East Montpilers I don't know where they're gonna head with that, but uh, we did mention the fact a few years ago that We could assume that Responsibility that fiscal responsibility A part of that bond But they were resistant to that thought because they thought there was a lot of value in there that they were giving up In the ownership of the building So that's what that's Um But anyway because um the towns Own the building together they would they would come up with a big ticket items There's no doubt about that. Yeah So We need a motion probably what Greg? That's us you guys are gonna go up from fifth to third. Okay Yeah Should we make a motion? Let's start a motion to make yeah, what's the motion? That on the budget we're gonna ask we're gonna ask them to put $30,000 in a bills revenue into the general budget in East Montpilers. We will be taking care of all You know in the next meeting. Okay. Yeah, so So at our meeting we'll we'll take out 5 000 from their ask and you'll take out 10. Yeah Okay Now we wanted the other thing on the agenda Was the um local agreement or what was that? That was uh discussion on potential amendments to the interlocal agreement between East Montpilers cows East Montpilers fire department Don't look at me because I had nothing to do with that No I had a paper copy of this and you can't I don't think you can make a change now You have to give them the notice not gonna ask to make a change. Okay. Okay. Um, and and this is probably something We should just have a conversation about at some point But I will tell you I finally went back and found all the old agreements and Which hadn't been on file in the town office, but I managed to get them. I guess Gina got sent them to us And yeah, and um, I was able to follow how it got changed over the years. Yeah Which made me a little more comfortable with it, but I think what happened was two issues got confused The very original contract That provision was about one thing and one thing only it was about if you want to get out of this contract What's the process? Okay, and the process was which this was in the original contract You have a chance once every five years the contracts for five years if at the end you want to leave Then you give us at least one year's notice And then you walk Then in 2013 for some reason they changed that to now you have a chance to do it every year And you only give us five months notice Then in 2021 you drop that to three months notice. So that means If callus decides that we don't want to do this anymore all we have to do is tell you Give us back our third and we walk out in three months I think I think that's probably not how we want to do this But what happened seems to have happened is there was never any provision for how to make amendments to the contract So in 2013 everybody decided to mush the two together And and that's why it got written in this strange way So I think what we should do is make and it's very unclear to me when I read this what this says And and different people seem to have different interpretations of it I think what we ought to do is have a discussion about what do we want to do if you want to walk And what do we want to do if you want to amend and have two different processes for those things? Because I don't think they should be the same one process now What you do is you say non renewal 90 days before the anniversary of the contract And then you have the chance to make the amendments in that period But it's the same process for we say, okay. Thank you very much. Give us our third back. We're leaving And I don't think you want that. I think you want at least a year Short it. Well, maybe You could do the same thing to us and I don't want that Okay, so I understand what you're saying So I just like to clean but one of the reasons that they Not to defend the actions of the previous select board whatever One of the reasons they put that in there is they wanted the ability to review it every year It forced them to it wasn't an automatic renewal. Well, that's one of the things I don't understand here What do they mean by review it? They say it shall be reviewed every year. Yeah What does that mean? It means you read it over and if there's things you don't like about it Then you have the chance to change. I can do that anytime I want. No, but you don't have the opportunity to do You know, you have that 90 day window Let's I mean because I was part of that conversation But I did tell you that before the cows took like six months to decide what they wanted to do Right. Yeah, we're like, what are they doing? We don't know Well, and I think that the other challenge there is that if you if you just put it in there And say there's three months upon the renewal of the contract and that makes it the same time every year and the reality is The select boards are so busy with all of their other stuff that by the time Somebody says, ah, it's three months before the renewal Uh Here it is either consider it here in this three months or and and say what you want to change Well, you're supposed to be saving it up, you know, right? Well, oh june 1st. Okay. We're gonna do it We've been saving it all year except then a million other things come up like a flood And so and and june 1st goes by and uh, yeah And I think provided to hand's point, you know providing a clear path for considering amendments if we consider amendment that we want to change and have a conversation with East Montpelier or In the departments about in December We we should have a mechanism for doing that that isn't that isn't associated with a potential for some sort of Bringsmanship over whether or not we're renewing or not renewing And force people to the table because that's not going to be a productive conversation There's always going to be a distraction and we certainly don't want to be doing in the middle of in the middle of a budgetary process When we're all wanting to have a more heated conversation about something else Yeah, I just uh you Changed my but he didn't change my thought but my thought goes against what you just said um My feeling is that a the date should coincide with fiscal year First of all, I think it's silly to have your fiscal year and june 30th, but your contract goes to So sometimes so 10 yeah, so a that the contract should negotiate for work with the fiscal year and the other part Maybe becomes part of Our agenda for discussions in december when we do budget presentations item number six Interlocal agreement any issues concerns comments? And you review it along with the budget for the fire department If you got something to some issue rep flag, you know like then we address it I think there's some thought though of town meeting in there It's like you don't want to do it too close to the town meeting warning You know because it doesn't really give you a lot of lead time to discuss and because also Just the budget is now in callus gets voted on the floor You know that was also part of the discussion when we talked about the interlocal agreement It's like you really want to be negotiating this you know before town meeting It's like that's why the june july august thing happened because it's well after town meeting and then it gives you some time During the summer not so busy to talk about it. So that's just how that happened You know, I wasn't in control of it. I just was part of the conversation. I know that's what some of the thoughts were So anyway, I would like to invite you and to clarify what you were saying in terms of Ending the contract and callus taking us one third and watching. What were you thinking that that means? They were just saying they could get out of it We've decided that we don't want to be part of this agreement anymore. So what's that one third that you'd be taking? Oh, one third of our equity. That's that's in the interlocal agreement It says that if we dissolve the agreement, which is what we'd be doing We take one third of the equity and you take two thirds. I'll see that's that's what I thought you meant and I read it differently. I might I might be wrong, but The East Montpelier fire department is a private non-profit organization that was founded in 1964 Section 14 of the agreement refers to the Dissolution and liquidation of the East Montpelier fire department. What happens to its net assets If callus decides to withdraw from this interlocal agreement Then that does not necessarily mean that the East Montpelier fire department is going to dissolve. I see I'm looking at it and That is what it says I'll have to go back and reread it. I'll get you more carefully. Yeah Thanks for pointing that out. Well, we weren't going to cut your check for a hundred thousand more So you're going to cut the building into a third? No, no, no, I'm going to get the building appraised as fair market value considering that, you know It's hard to sell public service buildings in East Montpelier municipal building So the value might not be that much It might be in East Montpelier, right? That's true. What else have you guys been putting behind the building? Anyway Anything else? What? No. Oh, no, I'd just like to work on that. Yeah, we could talk about it. Perfect. Sure Okay, we're not voting on anything We came to consensus correct. Okay. Okay. Yeah. Did you did you have something else to say? No All right, so any other business that's the next thing on the agenda So usually at this point one of us says something So for the purpose of the East Montpelier meeting, I moved to adjourn No, this is the joint meeting Follows the same if we say aye. All right Now the House decided that it's a joint meeting and we have control Yeah Okay, so thank you for coming and uh