Yeah, there we go. All right. Hello everybody if it's Wednesday, it's Warhammer and that must mean it's time for another episode of Warhammer Weekly Joining me as always is my apparently today Irish co-host Tom. What's up, buddy? Hello friends Also joining us I'm so happy to have you back on the show. It's Russ from Facehammer. How you doing brother? I'm good. I'm good also also being Irish today. Yes indeed everybody's everybody's a little Irish as I said I'll continue drinking my Italian water and celebrating my own heritage. So there you go at any rate We're going to be talking about sleeper lists today. I'm excited about that We're gonna talk about those lists that we think have some gas in the tank or some fun to be had that could be competitive But aren't necessarily on the radar So there's been a lot of these people angling for this lately and we might not be as crazy as as everyone I mean, I'm no smorgasm. I'll admit it like running in with Grand Alliance death and taking second place But I think we've got some good ones here But of course first we're gonna go start out with the news Tom. What do we got? So we have a really awesome rumor engine. Yeah, it's It's a cog. Thank you. Yes. There you go. It's a valve. Yes, it's a valve a valve cog I mean, there's a lot of rivets and all I'm gonna say is I've painted a lot of KO rivets and That is like the rivets for square inch in the photo qualifies it as probably KO. I Think you're being hopeful. I think it's a 40k thing. Oh, yeah, that is the most Bleak, I've paid a lot of rivets Those are definitely Jordan rivets That is I think you feel I think you're hopeful there Tom But I appreciate your your positivity. I'm gonna say it's a 40k thing probably a 40k vehicle thing And you know what actually tells me it's 40k like I hate to okay now. I'm gonna go negative. Do you know what tells me? It's 40k If you look at the way the valve flares like the iron cross where it connects where it connects to the KO valves don't do that sure they don't flare like that like the iron cross So It's 40k there we go. It's fine. We've settled it, but that's okay Tom because guess what there are much cooler images We can be talking about so what what's next? There are Let's talk about the seraphon first. Okay, that's fine. We can talk about the seraphon first I'll all I'll wait to change images. No This is about sleep a list. Do I need to leave? I Do you want to do this show the preview show is that what you want to do? No, no, I'm saying no the underworlds. This is what you're referencing. I'm good I wrote them in order. I wanted to do them. You're fine. Okay. Good. Good So seraphon warband Released and those models are pretty sexy like I'm not a fan of seraphon I know a lot of people are but I love good models sure The seraphon, what do you think of the Russ? What do you think of the the new seraphon warband the little the new little skinky and all the skinky friends? I'll be 100% honest of you. I've not even looked at it. Oh It's all right They don't they don't do it for me. That's I'm sure the models are lovely and I saw the chameleon skin kid of taste But yeah Seraphon not my bag.  No So yeah, so seraphon We had their release OBR we got the first image of their new warband. There we go. Now we're talking about the thing that boom there he is Yes, mr. Axeman Kai Minin or whatever his name is main in something He's got his flesh It's like his little flesh skirt. He's got a big old axe. This rumor engine was from what a year ago This is a very old rumor engine Tom, what do you think of this guy? What's what's your what's your take on him? I mean, I think that he has There's a lot of potential for him and for conversions. It's what I'm gonna say, okay Okay. Um, I like I like I think he's a perfectly fine OBR model I'm glad that OBR got him as a model But I'm interested in like converting him into like a vampire lord or something like that Sure, I mean if you put like a human head on him or you know what I mean like it not you know what I'm saying Yeah, exactly yes, he could very much become just that's bone armor. He's wearing. Yeah, 100% easy easy peasy Russ, what about you how you feel about about bone axe headman headsman? I love it I think looking in my head. It looks like the scale of a stalker It might just be because how henchies but if you look at the band on the armor for that that separation He's probably quite a large Probably a 40 million like the bigger one you get in the war. Yeah, that's quite exciting for me I like the face for me like a lot of obi I've like goofy faces. They're grinning I like the fact his mouth is very kind of looks almost like a salad.  I like it. It's good. No, he is very serious He's he's here to collect some heads Yes, by the way, this rumor engine was originally revealed his axe was originally revealed on March 31st 2020 so this guy almost made it to a year before he was revealed So there you go Yeah, I mean I think from the scale of the tiny skull in the base as uh as cold shoulder said You know that this dude's gonna be big. So yeah, I dig this dude Good stuff for sure Yeah, so uh We had a metal watch article Uh, well, hold on. I want to talk roadmap real quick. You're right. I left this off But just to close out the underworld's conversation We did get the little roadmap update So obviously we know next month is the vampire warband. We're all waiting on And then may is the obviously the uh bone split us and new obr And then we got our eideneth deepkin silhouette With our evolved pokemon Uh, so everybody's looking for everybody's excited about I don't know anything about pokemon But I guess there's some kind of flying fish pokemon that people are excited about You have children, Tom. This is a thing, right? I do. I do. You got to catch them all. That's what I know Uh-huh you you play talking about pokemon, right? Yeah, exactly Tom you played pokemon go for a long time. You have to know pokemon. Let me just out with it. It was for exercise Sure Yeah, I don't know of any good flying fish. I'm sure that the newer generations of pokemon have uh, super flying fish Oh, a magic harp. Is that what they're saying? So it's that it's what that's what tinez tinez said Oh, I hope I haven't seen silhouette. So uh, that's amazing I want a I want a pretty useless fish in that army. So they need they need some useless, uh, units in there No, I'll be excited if it like imagine if this warband somehow clocks in like a morgue waste blade coven Like an 80 point thing and idk get like some ridiculous four unit like chaff unit that that can you know move aggressively You want a tight caster and a soul render? All in one and the soul squire. Yeah, only one more band for 80 points, right? Exactly. I'll sign that. I'll sign that When I sign they they all can they can complete the prayers on a seven as well. That's there That's like a prayer coven. Yeah. Yeah, exactly. Yep t plus Those rituals that most people forget even exist in idk Suddenly go down to being on like a seven instead of a ten or a six if you're near the boat You know what that you know what that's what that army needs to be to competitive It really does. You know, they're so it's they've they've lived been living the rough life lately idk we all we're all pulling for them Uh fish Yes, big flying fish Where a fish could fly away All right, so yes now continue tom so there you go Uh metawatch article for uh, sons of batman. Yes, uh, our buddy aos shorts and dan Or sorry aos shorts dan and aos coach. There we go. Sorry, uh, anthony say that the right way around uh Was great. They wrote a nice little how to win with and how to kill sons of behemoth Uh, russ, did you get a chance to uh to read the metawatch article? Not yet. I was actually recording today, but I did see it pop up Um, but I am excited to read it because obviously, you know how I feel about sons of behemoth So yes good to see some love. So uh, they had a good weekend. That's for sure You know three different lists going four and one across multiple tournaments. So It's a it's a strong thing It's it's hard for them not to be at least somewhat competitive when you have an entire army of people who count as lots of models on objectives in an objective base game Well, it's a strong combo man. It's like you win by getting objectives and not by killing stuff. Yeah, sure Uh, I will tell you that that's not how my Uh, so be this is how I play warm. I didn't I didn't get nowhere ever to stand around on circles, man Uh, it's what I came here for Down with that sort of thing. Yes, uh, so But uh, I thought that that was it was a it was good article from both of them I liked I I love seeing coach talk about what he's done. He's gotten a lot of games in Uh with his uh with his son so far, uh, obviously being in australia He's had a chance to to actually play in some tournaments actually play warhammer. Yeah that cheater Yeah Most of us probably have not had the experience of playing against the sons of batmott in a tournament yet Uh, or playing in a tournament for a long time So, uh, it was great to hear him talk about because this is I think the fourth tournament or fifth tournament He's taken him to something like that. Wow. Okay, so Uh, that's pretty good.  Well done and uh That's uh, you know, so he's he's really he's really put him through the paces playing both taker list And now this was a breaker list which I thought was interesting because I actually Don't like the breaker tribe at all, but hey check it out. Check out the article I do agree with dan's feedback on how you beat them Like I thought if you're it they If you've never played them they can very much surprise you because they are a list that's like Oh, I didn't realize how hard it would be to kill the megas I didn't realize how easy it would be for them to just rip objectives out from under me Uh, quite simply, you know, so it's there's there's absolutely Ways you can stop them from doing that and sort of like counter play to them Uh, but and I thought dan did a good job of sort of laying that out Which is great because again a lot of people probably haven't played them in a tournament. So But we're gonna be soon They're coming back I'm coming back. That's right Maybe not over here as quickly. She got I don't know but in other news, uh, nova got cancelled this week. It did Yes, it did. That's a shame Uh, it got cancelled, but I mean I understand why that's probably not because they're worried about the status of the pandemic It's more just like they couldn't take the risk with all the planning plus they rely on a lot of international vendors Coming and like even if in the us Things go good over the summertime or go well as they seem to be trending now It's hard to say what the status of like international travel is going to look like by september or whatever Uh, yeah, so nova cancelled and gen con pushed their date back By about a full month Oh, so they're in september now. Yeah, they pushed into middle september for their tournament And they're doing like a hybrid online slash in person thing So they're still gonna have the convention at least as of right now Uh, but yeah, there you go. Nash con still on That's right. Uh, hey, look i'm i'm uh here where in where I live I get uh, I get to go Sign up for my shot this this week. So i'm excited. I got my first shot this last week. Nice There you go. Okay thumbs up We're getting there. So it's a long road But we're gonna get there. It is. Um, we another Exciting thing this week. We have the uh, uh preview show this weekend. Yes Absolutely, I won't go to you on this one russ to have you guess since I don't want to I'm not gonna put you on the spot Like I accidentally did with chuck when I made him guess points on a thing that he knew the points up Uh Tom 1200 Yeah, exactly. There you go. Yeah, that's the answer. It's just 1200. Here's our outline for it Uh, I so I brought up the image for the preview show Uh, I here our guy on the right Very much looks like another member of the OBR underworlds team. I assume they're gonna get an archer in the underworlds team So which is fascinating by the way because like man, uh, like please please please like Imagine a world where they actually get archer a world where they actually get archers in OBR I'm I don't want to be like the old days like when tomb kings had arches, right? Right, and that's what I was I was thinking about. Uh, uh, Khalida, right? It's it's the missing comparison point We got to get that and we got to get them some chariots and they're good to go chariot units Carrier Carrier they've they've got they've already got a carriage. They're in the spell. Oh, yeah So, uh, I have heard this guy referred to as the Aussie archer long bowman So I support this My Aussie archer long bowman. There we go. It's a double pun It is Tom is the guy on the left This guy over here left side of the image not the adeptus Mechanicus guy up front, which is fine like whatever whatever. That's a 40k dude. Yeah guy on the left Is that a blood knight answer? Yes. Yes, it is. It is a blood knight Yeah I mean Can we just See The grave lords, please we all know they're there Everybody knows What are we doing here? Just show us the army What was the uh, the title that they named it? It was something the dam It's uh, something like that. Yeah, I don't remember the exact name Come on, man. You're supposed to know these. I'm sorry, Tom. Uh, the name of it Is here.  Thanks, man Is it like I thought it was like the blast in the dam or something Let's say sure Why do they not have a direct link to this? I'm looking on the site. I don't see it So it's okay.  There it is faith and damn nation There it is. Um, and I saw that and it was like, what is the faith part of this? I assume the 40k thing 40k stuff probably they're they're pretty faith focused. Yeah, they showed the new sister's tag In silhouette. Okay. Yeah, that's probably what it is. Yeah, I'm just hoping for my uh, my order of azir I just keep on. I want my army over. It's not happening. Tom. They're not they're not like left turning into that all of a sudden I know but no but like as a response to the vampires you drop both of them at once Tom, we all want it. You want it. I want it. The american people want it We know that let's move on but it's not coming in this trailer But the grave lords just show us the army. Okay We know it's there. It's been vampire city. We got vampires falling out everywhere Just get them out there. That's all I'm saying. So That's the new blood knight I'm gonna block it.   We need something else That isn't that isn't just a skeleton or a white. It'll be a banshee knight or something like that, right? Like somewhere in the middle There we go, uh, okay, cool Any other new stuff there Tom? Yeah, I'm gonna announce one that was like a tangential thing I'm gonna open with this the this disclaimer. This is not a finance. This is not financial advice This is not a financial show But for those that are american That sell on ebay I would encourage you to look into the newest laws around Like uh Like sell like ebay that with the new stimulus bill that just passed If you sell more than 600 dollars at all on ebay You're gonna be getting like you're gonna have like you're gonna be getting tax forms on it now moving forward rather than like 20 000 So it's gonna change like the flipping army market So just be aware of that For those that regularly sell on ebay I would encourage you to go research it yourself look into it But just be aware that like some of the hobby market stuff is all changing regarding finances and taxes so um Check it out do some research It's it's gonna be a thing this year Moving forward. That's a good note for people I don't know that many people are flipping as much as you tom, but good note Uh, tom is in the middle of trying to sell out his entire childhood.  I just we're almost done. All right, we're all excited about it All right, uh anything else tom we good Okay, in which case let's turn to as I as I record a time stamp here Uh, let's turn to some pick of the week Uh, russ, I know you sent me some things to share. Uh, what would you like to share with everybody? Yeah, did you get have you got them up? Or you can you share them? I don't have them up. I'm sorry You are You start introducing it and I'll get them up. Okay. So, um, a really cool conversion from, uh, veletron on his, uh, I think it's this Selesk, uh, torso on, um, Marafi body I just think it looks awesome. Um, so I quite like a lot of his stuff because he does a lot of like crusading storm cast and things like that And I just thought it was really cool because I'm really into Selesk at the moment Don't hate me too much chat.  It won't fit the overlay perfectly, but I don't care. There's the uh, there's the conversion I've got it up. It's just fantastic.  Yes It's just just really nice. I just really like it. I like the idea of it execution looks good So I can't wait to see him painted Um, and then obviously, um, the other thing I sent you is a friend of mine, uh, chris mills or fluff tattoos is known Um, it was painted a shard speaker and I didn't know but he's actually got a youtube channel And he's done a video on how he painted it and I just thought it was pretty cool Um, and if you obviously it's quite a new model. So yeah, I would check that out because I've I'm Getting to paint my models at some point sometime Yeah, we're yes. Yes At the moment, I'm just assembling everything which is Hopefully don't run out of enthusiasm before I finish. But yeah, I thought that was pretty cool No, it's awesome. Velotron's conversions are always amazing and like I love the pieces He's chose to use for this like it's because obviously he's got some sill Celesk in there, right? Still specific or sorry eski specifically and at the same time like the way he's modified the the acts and stuff just the dangly janglies and bojangles that he's put on Uh, look fantastic. Uh, he has the whole crop of the main heroes Converted up there on his twitter. I'll link it down below. They're all fantastic every one of them Uh, it's wonderful what what he's done there. So yeah, check that out Good stuff, uh, I'll link both of those below very very solid picks Uh, my shard speaker is sitting. You can't see it, but it's sitting right behind that chair So it's just it's waiting. Let's talk about that in hobby time mine too. Yeah Tom, what about you? What are you doing there? What's your pick of the week? Sorry? Yeah, so, um, I've seen It looks like uh, I'm trying to find it again. I think Didn't mangle updated his tomb kings. He did. Yeah Stuff and I want to encourage folks to check that out Also, uh, tomb king tristan has been working on a project And so, uh, I want folks to keep their eyes open Uh, like just saying the whole tomb king's community like it's percolating They're coming back. Sure. Uh, there's a lot of great work. Exactly. There's a lot of great work out there point you to tomb king tristams, uh, uh, uh, twitter thread Or twitter handle and then also, uh, tyler mangles done some work recently again as well. So Yeah, I will I will link, uh, both down in the description So people can go check that out if we've got some we've got some more long time tk fans out there Who are ready to bring back the chariot hordes You got it. You got to play here. Okay For myself my pick of the week is going to be a shout out for our buddy 2d3 Who's running a new gt in august. I'll link that to that. He's got a two day tournament That he's running it's down in the other side of the world down in the australia area and, uh, so That is going to be a two day tournament on august 7th and 8th and Check it out. I'll include the link to go if you're in that area if you're in australia eastern side And uh, you want to check, you know sign up for another tournament. They're trying to bring people in It's already growing fast. I think there's a lot of even in australia They've they have there's a lot of pent up tournament energy I think the first tournaments that get really where people start signing up I mean it just they fill up like that because people are looking for any excuse any excuse Uh, so there we go Uh, so check that link out down below All right, so with that Uh, let's talk about some hobby time Uh, so ross you kind of mentioned what you've been working on Uh, what do you what do you've been painting specifically you getting that slanesh rocking and rolling? I I really wish But i'm i'm being doing some commission work. So i've been painting a thousand suns actually this week. Um I spent a week building sonesh stuff and I was like right. I need to stop that now because I need to eat Well, maybe not as much as I do, but you know, I need to earn some money So I need to actually like paint some zinch stuff. So I'm uh, I've been doing some thousand suns.  I find myself doing the same thing where I'm like halfway through I'm like, why am I doing this? Yeah, exactly. So it's uh, yeah, but that's all I've been doing really so nice. Uh, thousand suns are Very detailed, but I gotta say they're pretty fun to paint like they are annoying But they are very pretty So that's nice. It's a good job. I like them. Let's put it that way. Yeah, there you go Uh Okay, tom. Yeah, you've been playing magic all week.  Like I don't even have it in me We had a friend out one of vince and I's friends or it was up from, uh, texas Uh, I don't know if he's my friend anymore since y'all didn't even tell me he was in town I could have said hi or something. You're not in town. You're four hours away. That's these seem like excuses I'm I'm hurt. I'm watching Magic like all week and opened like an outrageous numbers of boxes of magic just for fun like playing limited I'll just random boxes. It was delightful. Um, and then Uh, we have spent the last four days sorting through all my gi joe toising and like cleaning and organizing and um So that happened so I've been but I like I can see my d&d books again Which is a really big deal if you all have ever seen my basement Um, so that means that like that the space the hobby spaces is is is getting back under control Good. Well, uh, clean area equals easier potential to hobby. So hopefully you, uh Uh, I'm getting there. You get there. Yes Uh, cohen said a new broken realm story just went out and manfred has entered the fray. Well, it's very exciting I haven't read that one yet, but so I'm sure we'll talk about it next week But I'm I'm always interested to hear some some manfred action. Hopefully he dies Uh, wouldn't that be nice? Uh, there you go. Okay For my hobby time, uh, I finished up those slang gore when I got my boxes. I was like, okay I've got to paint the thing I care about the least first Right Because otherwise I'll never do it. So the slang gore were the first and honestly, they're fun to paint They're they're they're really nice models like to be clear Many people responded with those are very pretty paper weights Hey, look scrolls can get rewritten folks If you're a fan of the army, you own every scroll in the army because scrolls can get rewritten rules They're but they're but dust in the wind. They they just change and move over time. Okay My scaven army. I started 23 years ago I'm just saying like if they were like 90 points For that unit Like I could do I could do it. I wouldn't tighten them. I could I could do it for 90 Just because it'd be something in the army that when I have 90 points left. I'm like, oh, okay Here's a thing I can use right like I might have swarries. Sure. Yeah, you're right. It just Because I You're right 70 points I don't know. They could be rewritten. They could be repointed I'm glad you have them done for when that hypothetically happens, but then I immediately turn to something I'm very excited for which I'm working on these, which is the slick blades Love me some slick blades These are the worst models I've ever put together not these the exalted seekers were fantastic These guys this seeker redesign Whoever did the seeker redesign you nailed it with this half The person you put on top what Who hurt you? Uh, I need to know I'm sorry I've got four boxes to build. Don't tell me this. Oh my god. Get ready. Get ready for pain This is one of the just most Like this these are so good the new seekers are so smooth They have this like a little bit of extra detail But not but still easy to paint right like seekers were always pretty traditionally easy to paint These guys have a little extra detail, but they're still beautiful They're a lot more like formed aerodynamically like they feel more like a living creature They go together super easy. They're like two three pieces maybe per seeker They were great.  I'll I'll point out to you how small this guy is Maybe they're the same guys that a hand in the wrong boot is his throne. I yeah, apparently Uh, because look here. This is this guy Here is a headless old seeker Okay, like the regular can you see that like I know that doesn't look hugely different But like look at where her torso starts and ends look at her legs I can understand there is there much more, you know curled and stuff, right? But there's a definite difference here But these guys are in like the weirdest pieces Like here's half a torso and then the stomach and then one leg and then this part and the other part and then their arms Anyways, has he built the arches on foot? I have not built. I built one the one that came in. They are like that man. Gotcha. No, they actually the actual box set They're like you they're like you just don't understand how they go together Cool. Well, I didn't order any of those because I think they're trash So anyways, uh, but here's what I found out. Check this out.   You're trying to fit in there, but uh, I'm so excited about getting those slick blades together I've been running them a bunch. They are the the unit in the army that I've had a lot of fun with Uh, so I've been enjoying those guys. So yeah painting through all the seekers first and then I'm gonna figure out what to do with the boys on top Okay Yeah, so that's hobby time cool, uh, and we're gonna transition into the list now Let's talk sleeper lists, but I have a feeling this will not be the last time we talk about slanesh tonight Uh, I just got that. I've got a suspicion That uh, that we are gonna talk about lists from slanesh again okay So gentlemen, let me put uh, valetron away here All right, and uh, let's go ahead and uh, rust we're gonna kick it off with one of your lists Okay. All right There we go. So we'll just get right into it. Let's we're to start with your sigvald slanesh list Uh, the whirley cog seeker fun So you'll that'll be up here in just a moment Yeah, you'll see it on screen Uh, but yeah, I was very interested in this. I like a lot of what you're doing right away. You seized on something I love lurid haze invaders. So I'm in for that Uh, so take us through this list my friend. What's you like about it? Well, um, I will do we've been doing a lot of slanesh stuff on the channel and me and Byron have been like Messaging daily or most different arminess. So this isn't Be all an end or this is just one of A selection. So when we when we were talking about sigvald So, um, we were looking at how to get the most out of him. So I wanted to kind of make him As good as he could be. Yeah. So the idea you've got the keeper of secrets Um, so I've got the living whip on there And that's purely because you can get extra minus one on a monster and you can't use your piling shenanigans to mitigate that So it's a way to kind of if you've got to go into a monster You're probably not going to get get, um Smashed in the face too badly. You can get that minus one off So it's also because of six inch range. You can use it to protect other people from monsters.  You've got to have which is just plus one wound. Um The reason that the keeper is not a general Is because you can't use the command ability if you have in 12 of another general. Yep And obviously the the main command ability the keeper has is 12 inch range. So you don't really want that. So, um They got sigvald who is a general And he does everything that sigvald does I won't go into too much detail But you know, it's it's just a super awesome man plus three to charge, which is probably the most important bit And um, if he does die, then you get a command point because of invaders. So that's always good then, um shalesk And the reason and shalesk is kind of a bit more of a heart choice because I like the model So you could actually swap her out for something else You could be a contorted epitome If you've got 10 points by dropping the house girl just down to coarse beers Which is probably more useful for the reroll for cogs and things like that But I like shalesk and I like the idea of maybe ambushing shalesk sigvald And the keeper Then that will trigger the ability from shalesk, which is uh to reroll ones because you've got the mortal and a demon Yep, shales doesn't count. So It that's the only reason I just like it. I like the um the spell as well subvert, which I think is really useful Um, originally I was playing around with the mirrors the umbra spell portal, but uh, Byron's been playing with cogs. He's been telling me how amazing it is. So I just changed it to cogs last minute So um, and then um, you've got a shard speaker and really it's just I needed a non Named unique character A second one to stick on the rod of misrule for command points because You won a lot of them because obviously in lurid haste you get the command ability for plus one save You've got the pile in attack from the keeper Um, you know, there's just you just want a lot of command points reroll charges. So you just you just need it um, so That's the shard's keep keepers also got quite a cool ability with a nine inch Um debuff you can put on in the shooting phase Um, yeah, you might if I jump in real quick on the shard speaker I've played her a couple times and what I'll say is it's like I found it very hard to get her ability off Because she's got to get so close often But but that's okay Um, because I still find her to be Okay, I mean like everything in this army. I wish it was cheaper. Okay. We're not going to say that every time we talk about slanash Like yes, we all wish everything in the slanash book was cheaper. Let's move on But uh, I will say it's actually pretty easy to just kind of like she can usually get a spell off If you just kind of let her cast whatever she's going to cast last and she kind of have her cast anything Right. Yeah and like have her battle rapture or have her, you know, mystic shield or something and then her Her save goes up to a three plus and if she's sitting on terrain, she's suddenly at like a two up So she actually can be a quite survivable just standalone hero from sort of errant Shooting and things that might take her down Right. Just a caster on a two up isn't bad So mine was actually able to survive even with a little bit of ranged stuff going out so often Because she was on that ridiculous save and she's you know, a normal small base, so she's really easy to fit on almost any terrain Yeah, you have a feign right so you can just put her behind the feign and So I like the fact that it's a hero So you've got a summon point also if you do get the trifecta of the three heroes you're ambushing you need someone to put cogs down So I need another wizard. So that's what she's there for Um in terms of spells you can put whatever you want really I like born of damnation because you can heal people with it The keeper could take fly could take anything really it's up to it's whatever you want to put on there. Sure Um battle line I mean one of the things I did do is swap the shard speaker down to a mark the mask and then that allows you to I use this term loosely upgrade the um hellstriders to bliss barb arches because I know you're a fan And then obviously battle line is seeker cavalcade and it's just five units and it's free as the hellstriders and two Slickblade seekers Um, obviously it keeps your drops low gives you gives you command point gives you an artifact The rule is amazing that you can pile in. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, obviously. I saw what you said about the using the the locus uh, and then the having the slick blades Pile in just within two and not be able to get hit back and all that jankiness that you can do with this um And chronomatic cogs two things one you keep and get for it reliable armor save which makes it Way way more survivable Or you can get the plus to charge with the ambush, you know, it's really good You don't necessarily need to charge when you've got The pylons but also actually move so it allows you to get with runs to fit into different places And I just think that sonesh is I think it's got a high skill cap to play with it But I think it's very strong I actually think people are sleeping on it a little bit and I think when tournaments start and people start using it It'll take a little bit of time, but I think when people get Get the games under their belts. I think you'll see sonesh doing well at events Yeah, and what I enjoy so like you're right. You've got five units that can all pull the sort of six inch trick here, right? Yeah, um now ironically with all your health striders the six inch Piling is a nonbow with their bonus rules of either like an extra pip of damage or the neg one to hit because they have to Charge do that, but it generally doesn't matter. You're not you're generally six inching to you're not trying to kill things with them or whatever um What I will say is I like it because I think sig vault if you're going to use him the place where he actually does make sense is In lurid haze because you have the command ability for plus one save That he can use on himself, right? So he can actually push himself up to a two up the problem is you just you cannot let wounds squeak through on this guy right because He is Very fragile Three up four up sounds like it's going to be tough But if somebody hits you with like a d3 damage a couple you know some d3 damage attacks or something like that And one or two of them get through he could just blow up quite easily, right? It happens and so being able to push himself to a two up I think is really actually a big deal and He's so primed to be able to take advantage of the ambush because of his own built-in plus three to charge So what I like about this list is you've actually got options No matter what you roll on the lurid haze because it gives you d3 obviously that you can ambush, right? If you get one, I'd probably take sig vault first, right? And then use sill as like a sort of side skirmish model flanking unit But I got two I'd probably take sig vault and sill and split them up far enough When they ambush in because if still has no one around her, right then like, okay fine She's not it's not being triggered. But who cares? It's it's what it is And they can both operate independently very well And if I got all three then you can take the keeper along and boom now you've got it But if the keeper has to stay home She's really good to be there with the slick blades, right? Just like kind of advancing with them. They both are very fast same speed and making them six inch pile in twice Is crazy good crazy good the ground they can cover And you get another locus off Shalaskan because she can run and wreck charge Right, it gives you another ability to almost not as effective as a keeper But you kind of get to do the similar thing. Yep more. I think about this list I think you can talk to the pit me probably a better choice um, but I think it's down to preference and you know When you play games, you'll find what suits you what tweaks you'll make it gives you the Rerollable cast for the cogs if nothing else if you keep them at home, which is you know, very And and the acquiescence on three units as well, which is I mean, it's only 24 inch range. It doesn't help you in the alpha, but later game. It's fine Yeah, I mean that 24 inch like overwhelming acquiescence off the contorted epitome I think is the thing nobody talks about as being the good part about the contorted epitome And actually always the thing I use like the most off of the contorted epitome, right? Yeah, exactly I just don't want to paint another one What did not think it's like yeah, that's crazy Uh, right on. No, I like this. It's a good use of a lot of the stuff You know, one of the things that that constantly challenges me with some nationalists is Battleline because I really hate all of the current battle line vis-a-vis the costing in in here And I constantly am like cursing myself that I can't just take bliss barb seekers or or slick blade seekers as battle line And I was thinking about that deeply this week And I was like god, this would be so much easier to make lists if I could actually use this good unit as battle line in any way And then I realized yeah, but if that was the case, we would just be idk And it would just be like eel spam all over again. It'd be like slick blade seekers So I don't know if I would have wanted that like I there's there's a you know, it speaks to an overall challenge But uh, you know points will change. So there we go Uh, cool. This is great. And I love I look secret cavalcade is always my my go-to battalion So I I support this fully you got a lot of good tricks I dig it Yeah, uh, also don't forget like another small thing that isn't Uh, that should never be missed because you've got the shard speaker at home You keep the slicks kind of near her when they initially run They get the re-roll run. You don't have to burn command points on getting to a higher run number, right? You don't get the one. Yeah It's a it it's a huge deal because they can cross the entire DMZ with their six inch pylon Right, but they need to have more than like a one inch run, right?  Whatever. There we go. Sorry Uh, yeah, cool. All right, tom Let's go to your first list, which yes folks. This is tom's Formatting for his lists. This is how tom does his stuff. I have two good for more stroll builder I have different formatting. I did this on the run today on my phone. I apologize It's okay. Hold on to answer a question and chat real quick So rick asked, uh, what book is the rules for lurid haze in I didn't see it in the slaves of darkness great question rick so the In the wrath of the ever-chosen book, which if you're a player of any of the chaos armies I would highly recommend as a pickup That's say any of the four god chaos armies. Uh, that has the new Um That has the new Sub factions. Sorry for all four main chaos gods So including slanesh one pairs to invaders one payers to seekers and one pairs to pretenders and in my opinion the invaders one is Way out ahead of the other two, but I'll leave that to your own prerogative to decide. Okay. There we go Tom, please take us through Uh some night haunt Yeah, so, uh, I have like I have a core of night haunt that I'm running and then I have another half that I rotate kind of through um, and so, uh, my core is going to be the, uh Um, the death riders as you all see here and this is not finished by the way, obviously like because I don't have all my spells I don't have all my items, um, but this is the the core of what I'm kind of doing um So death riders, I am a firm believer in the strength and in the necessity of death riders as a night haunt player Uh, vences have had to face this down multiple times and so you can speak to the efficacy of Of horsies and chariots that can shoot across the table and take hits and And pile in on nines. It gets there. I mean the again moving the math alone from fighting in the charge phase on a 10 to fighting in the charge phase on a nine is statistically massive and it's It's hugely relevant to the army Yeah, it also gives me the things that I already want which are dreadblade heroes in multiples Like before I use I like like many night haunt players I was using a dreadblade as my general but I didn't actually realize the Necessity of having a second dreadblade And the reason why that's important is because uh, your general is going to teleport around and drag Troops to him with the command ability the night haunt command ability But the second dreadblade hero Um allows you to put the pendant of the fell wind or whatever it's called on which is the plus three movement So now you are no longer bound to having your plus three bonus movement wherever your general is right You can literally teleport that you have a floating plus three bubble 12 inch bubble that you can put anywhere on the table in the move phase Um, and so suddenly it makes all of your troops from like six to nine inch movement You know your horsies move a lot better, you know than they were and so Having and any of a floating hero now. Um, and it's a hero that can actually get in This list that I posted didn't have my uh mounted knight of shrouds Often I have an a third drop which is a mounted knight of shrouds And having that extra hero be able to get into the mix with all the re-rolls and everything that the Having knight shrouds nearby gives is always really helpful So that said so the top half is is generally a staple for all of my knight haunt lists Like all of them have that top half um The bottom half is something I stumbled upon this uh, this This last couple months and I've really fallen in love with it Uh death. I even misspelled it. It's death stalkers. Um, not death stakers. Uh, and uh because of reasons um, and So the death stalkers battalion a lot of you probably aren't familiar with it But it's what I found by the way with this knight haunt the first half through running death riders Is that like I can often do a lot of damage A 10 block ahead 10 block of regenerating hex rates because like In general that 10 block is rejenning 2d3 models per per hero phase Which like means that like you have to chew through a lot of four plus uh four plus six plus In order to actually like dent that unit and remove it So I have anvils and spades in my hex race, but actually I don't have as much killing power as I would like Before I was running condemned, which is like the offensive um It was the offensive, uh chain rast blocks But ultimately they're just not as killy as I wanted them to be sure. Um, which is obviously not surprising And I stumbled upon chain guard and I haven't really anybody seen anybody running this Not chain guard. I'm sorry. I've stumbled upon Death stalkers and I haven't seen anybody running it. It's a Karen wraith, which is just your required hero two units of grim gas reapers and two units of blade wraith stalkers and funny story like Glaive wraith stalkers are generally bad Okay Like um, you get four models for 60 points But they're four models on a four ups invulnerable save So actually on 32 mil bases that fly in our ethereal So they're actually a really good screen Sure, like don't they have like bonuses if you charge them as well or something Well, they can they can always retreat and charge. There you go. That's right This um, and so they and they get bonuses on the charge they get re-roll hits So instead of getting your re-roll hits on a higher number of models They get re-roll hits on a charge and so they can charge every turn Not that we're trying to make them good because they're not Um, but the battalion makes like you choose one unit on the table when you set up with this army and everybody in this battalion has uh plus one to I think it's plus one to hit and plus one to wound. Yes Everybody in the battalion has plus one to hit and plus one to win which makes those 40 Grimgas reapers actually like Really really punchy Because now they're not hitting on forge, which was their big detriment. They're hitting on threes They're threes and twos re-roll hits re-roll hits against five or more models And so this and and you're still make one run So you actually have a really punch two really punchy units that can chew through a lot of a lot um, and then you have these really uh Good initial chaff that you don't mind throwing away that actually like when they get in there They're all also on they're on like threes and threes against your target unit Um, again, not everything's gonna be the target unit, but they can actually get in and do some damage They're on two inch reach. They're not terrible. They're generally pretty terrible But they're not as bad as I I thought initially and this is a two drop list Yeah, so you can set up set a bunch up off table and then just say go and see what happens And reposition your army as needed. You can you know drop out of the heavens And if you don't want two units of eight for screening and chaff You can do two units of four And then get another 120 points to add that knight of shrouds for you know a third drop if you want it So there's a lot of flexibility here. Um on that cairn wraith You can actually add the weapon So I normally add I didn't put it here. I normally add the spell book on my general hero to make him a wizard That also makes me that also gives me the fight's last spell And uh The for the cairn wraith I grab like the uh, the I think it's shadow slitter um, which means that on sixes he does Uh, it's like uh d It's uh, he does normal damage plus a d3 plus two mortal wounds for every six he rolls Okay, here's my question for you tom terrible Does this overcome does this list overcome the negative 23 you suffer for playing knight haunt to your To your effective skill level according to listbot Uh, no, no, I mean you're so you're still on the back foot no matter which way you go with knight haunt There's not there's not a way to get around that but you know what? Like I love the tools that I have with knight haunt like most of the time I can just outplay my opponents Yeah, sure. I what I'll say is I have played you against Played you with you using your knight haunt multiple times and as somebody in the chat had pointed out right like the uh, you know smorgans certainly ran a Ga death obviously, but it was like hex rates were his hammer, right?  So he was just going for this explosive mortal Rolling hammer attacks when you get to five attacks pretty easily in knight haunt as well. You like you don't have to go Uh, because he was using it for his other tools. Yeah Well, what I was to say is I often bring previously. I did we may not be able to do this moving forward But previously I would bring in a vampire lord. It was my like it was normally my third drop because there's so Yeah, yeah Yeah, they heal a d3 models and the commander believes better than the knight of shrouds because it's to your next hero phase and Yeah, I this i'm a big fan of the vampire lord I've um, I actually had a death rider's list that I was gonna send to you actually vince, but I didn't I backed out I was uh, I had a it's for me. It's all about the regenerating spirit hosts with the reroll to hit and uh, yeah It's pretty good. Nice. Nice. Yeah, there's a lot of potential here is what i'm saying Like I think that like some good generals could take events with knight haunt. Yeah, I mean that's what smorgant showed Right. He used mainly knight haunt and took second place Like they there are tools here that can be used. You're right It is I think a lot of what the same thing you said about slanesh rust applies here to knight haunt as well, right? Like it's got a pretty high skill floor to use it effectively But it had because it it again relies on a lot of movement tricks a lot of positional work, right? Things have to be in the right place. You have to be setting up the right counter charges You have to know when you're able to like use the terrain to your advantage where you're like your opponent Doesn't think they have forgets that you don't have a charge and then you're just you know Shooting these hex rates 15 inches forward through you're in them terrain and all of a sudden you're you know You're up in the business that kind of thing, right? I think the biggest thing with lists like this is that like Yeah, you need to be a good player, but you also need the rubber the green you need the luck because like other lists that are a bit more S tier is an internet term that um, you you've got that they almost like They're almost protected against that element because they're so safe or they've got reliable Yeah, at least so you don't you're not at the whims of the match up or the scenario or the the You know the priority role is as as a list like this or a list like the Sinesh will be but That's fun, right? So right, right? This is actually a gamble, you know But uh, yeah, but I think that this is a list that can that can perform very well as I said, I think there are a number of Potential night hot lists that are just like right on the edge of greatness. Sure Well, you know what's gonna kick them over that when they eventually get their broken realms update and just get sub factions Like when they actually get some back. Yeah, they actually get some actions I mean that would be the easiest thing to add to them. I don't know that that's gonna happen I'm just saying like if I was them and I was making a broken realms book Yeah, that's what I put in there. Like they are the only army in the game that has no Subactioning of any kind. Yeah, because even getts have it in white have evolved it through the white dwarf articles, right, right Uh, so yeah, I mean like and if you think about that that would actually do a lot of work In almost any variety that it was put on right? Because they would suddenly have these at this extra layer of rules that could that could really be covering For some of the stuff they need pushing them on damage or pushing them on defense or whatever, right? It would be such a great way to boost them all across. I just need a little bit more damage. That's all I need Yeah, that's That's all right broken realms is coming my friend. There you go. All right Uh, let's do one of mine. I want to talk about this list I want to talk about this list. I love so much I don't know if I'm still going to take this to Nashcon. This is what I was going to take to Nashcon Who knows if I still do we'll see if I do here's my list one of them one of the two spoilers Spoilers if you happen to play me, this will be one of my two lists probably maybe who knows Maybe I'll just take giants. It's easier to transport time will tell Uh, so this is my uh city's a sigmar list And there's you know, city is always around the middle area of competitive But I think there's lots of good sleeper lists within cities of sigmar um I like this list because it's full of a bunch of uh vehicles that I really enjoy and things that I had fun converting But also things that I think make for a really, uh Like people a lot of units that people underestimate say it that way. Okay Uh, so Tristan says take the battleship. Well, I would take the battleship if I took my city's list Uh, and as hey woe said yes, so anyways, I started blasting and that is what this list is all about, right? Uh, so yes, I did use a steam tank with commander. You're right. That happened. Okay By the way, I'm not sure if this is old points or new points. I didn't remember when I originally You can't take thermal rider anymore. So that yeah, it's probably the old list. That's fine I don't this is your old list. Yeah, I just didn't bother to update it But that's fine because I think he's cheaper now some version of this list. It doesn't matter Obviously, you're rid of the thermal rider cloak Uh, I just went and grabbed this and I forgot that it was written pre that change At any rate Steam tank commander, he can buff himself Okay, because he can mark or light somebody and then shoot at them.  So you take two storm cast heroes, right?  Well, who has the big, you know, the big Starbuster arrow. Yep. Okay. Yes, you can everybody can ignore the cloak here. Do you want me to cross it out folks? I'm sorry. I forgot it was there Jesus piece. There you go strike through text. I'm sorry everybody replace it with a different artifact Uh at any rate The everything else is still valid and then you use five of the free guild outriders as the honor of retinue Which they fit because they're the five to 20 models of blah blah blah blah blah Which again, let's her then pass off wounds to them, right And so you have like this little tiny bunker of the two storm cast heroes who can easily be set up and cover And then the the outriders who stay near so they can absorb wounds Your other outriders become expeditionary forces. And by the way, I do rep outriders. You just give them all the standard machine guns Uh, all you do is just keep them at the edge of the hawk-eyed aura. So they're getting Uh, plus one to wound And I'm all about them. Love them. They're great. Uh, they just put a bunch of shots in the air. They're not bad Uh, and they're fast You got three gyro bombers. Why do I take bombers instead of copters? I rate the bombers because I like to be able to drop the bomb multiple times Uh, you dropped a bomb on me, baby And so that's I'm all in for that The gun hauler does what gun haulers do which is teleport around and threaten back objectives the whole game and shoot at stuff And then you've got a hurricanum which is also going to be in the middle giving everyone plus one to hit So that again, if you're if you can keep your outriders and the plus one to hit and the plus one to wound They're real good The gun hauler can also float next to the ironclad and give it a ward save Correct. Yep. And then you've got the big ironclad for your big gun, right? Which if you have the luxury to do You keep it near the hawk-eyed and the hurricanum if you don't it's fine. It can go operate on its own, right? You can just teleport next to it like it. Yeah Like if you need to assist that area you just move it there.  You're getting from tempest I Don't forget everybody's plus one to save in round one like very often in round one your knight of zero So be on a one-up save Right. That's just that's that's a slam dunk. Aruni easy Like in cover with tempest I boom bang and she's passing off wounds to her retina if she needs to So your general is actually very hard to remove Okay And yes, it's all just like highly mobile shooting. That's what it is like everything can just pop around Right around on their motorcycles because that's what my outriders are on and it puts a lot of shots in the air Uh, do you have an anvil? No Who needs anvils? Anvils are for losers.  I have played this list I have played this list and I would agree with you even it has a lot of it has a lot of threat Yes, um an ability to to move in zone and because like the mobility. It's just so high um It there's a lot of uh opportunities here.  No, I mean, it's just this is just like bad ko, but it's my type of ko It's in cities Which is better. Yes, as tristan said poppin shots and poppin wheelies. That's what that's what i'm all about But I will say this like the shooting is much more, uh, like you feel the difference Because everything's at plus one to hit and plus one to wound right in that list Because of the hurricane because of the general everything's at plus one to hit plus one to wound and because the general's pushing up You're also most of the time reroll ones to hit So just your past shooting on everything is just so like, you know All of your guns on your iron clatter on like twos and twos and just like every everything lands everything removes models. Yep Yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly And you know the list is fast enough that you're you're gonna get out dropped by everything because this list is just like a million drops Right, but who cares that's that's that's called playing cities of sigmar Uh, somebody asked is the battalion a trap in tempest I? Uh, no, it's okay. It's one of the okay battalions. Uh, it can take gun haulers in it, which is actually pretty cool. Um But I it's you have to be running that type of thing Right, uh, you have to want to spend the points on that big general, which I don't in this list, right?  How many units?  Um, I was gonna say you could split the you could probably I need to play with it But you could you can do stuff with gyro bombers, obviously Well, the reason why I was asking was because uh, I wonder if you might be able to improve your general or your list By and I don't know. I don't know this case, but if you could pull out I know your storm cast are super awesome and you can hand off wounds and blah blah blah, but as a uh, uh, Endron master in Um Let me think about it I wonder if I wonder if the right answer isn't just doing a ko general in the boat because then Because the boat like because that rule doesn't get shut off by being in garrison So you could be like an like a ko admiral, right? Like and be honest to up base Neg one to hit because of cover or because of because of garrison Yes, and you're projecting the bubble from the boat and can teleport around with your plus one to win Like I wonder if if the right answer isn't finding a way to get a get to 12 units to have three On the ground. Yeah. Does that make sense? It does. Yeah, you can there's a build a couple different versions list that have 12 units It's very doable like right because again You can go to like copters and split up the copters instead and stuff like that It's not it's not hard to get to 12 units in this Yeah, I just wonder if like having an admiral might not be that like I understand you're like what you've done here And that's not bad But I wonder if if if because being able to like teleport around with that plus one wound is kind of a big deal Yeah, sure. No, I hear you. It's it's absolutely true Like I will say that you know one of the things I truly do love about this list Is how much your army like when your iron plaid goes to Basically twos and twos really wants to hit Like that's how iron clad should feel Right when when you and it's not that hard to organize those bonuses given the speed of everything here Uh, oh, there you go. Oh russ has taken us into the saint patty's day lighting. I love it. That's awesome, man Uh But you know that like that thing will do work Without a doubt So yes, is it this a this is the fragile list of lists though If somebody like comes screaming fast and gets into you and is like really super outmobiles you You're just like you're gonna be splattered up against the back of the board That's what's going to happen if you have an idk match up against this list. It's terrible. You're dead Just go to the bar. You're dead You're dead, but that's okay Run It's fine because you get to the bar quickly, right? Absolutely So Well, we it's quite funny because today we did a show and Byron did a um daughter's ms shoot list Was just shooting and stuff and marafi is the best anvil you can ever have so It's true. I know we had you had chirocopters and other like stuff in there and uh, yeah very similar, but uh, yeah, that's uh I think it's good All right, so there you go. That's a fun list I enjoy it. I've had a lot of fun playing it because it is fun to just like have all of these weird highly mobile shooting units Yeah, all right russ back to you, buddy list number two Let's talk about uh van brecht Stormkeep anvils. Look at look at all this van brecht nonsense All right. I love it. I love it. This This is something that when I was doing the broken realm show I stumbled upon and I didn't share it because I didn't want to face it so basically, um in um broken realms marafi you have access to stormkeep and There's a couple cool formations. Um, which is the stormkeep patrol um, and there's also a van brecht black watch Which is similar but slightly different as more guns than it which is always good So this army is a two drop army Okay So it is crazy. Got the two formations. So I'll just go through what they do. So you've got um van brecht now I don't know because he's got a weird Thing that he's like a named character, but it then says he has to take a trait So he might not be able to have an artifact. So the artifact you might have to drop. I don't know I didn't look at every key. There's nothing in there. So um, so it's van brecht who's a lord veritant Um And you can forget pretty much about artifact command trait doesn't matter But he's got the prayer blessed weapons. Um, and then he's in a formation with five judicators 10 judicators six griff pounds and six castigators Then the next formation is a lord veritant Who's got um divine light, which is the You have to reroll sixes against a friendly unit or reroll ones against enemy units. Holy over 18. I believe Prayer and obviously they can unbind spells like wizards and if the griff if the griff hounds are in Six you get plus three to unbinds. So pretty good anti magic Then you've got 15 liberators, which um, you know in a storm keep army You can declare in your movement phase that they're going to get plus one to save and plus one to hit if they don't move Doesn't stop you charging. It just means you can't move And you can't have been set up that turn, which is the key point Um, then you've got another unit of six griff hounds and then you've got nine vanguard raptors of hurricane crossbows This is in anvils of helden hammer. Now the formations allow you before the game starts. So before turn one To redeploy your entire army. Yeah, anywhere on the table nine away You're in anvils of helden hammer on turn one. You will have three command points You can shoot 81 shots from the vanguard raptors of hurricane crossbows.  So who cares? You can also shoot the judicators twice and you can shoot the castigators twice if you burn all your command points You also get some bonuses to bravery, but who cares? Um And the whole point about this is the liberators can also form a big shield And get their plus one save because the setup is before the game So in the movement phase you haven't moved If you're lucky to get the charge then obviously that's really good because you pin them and all your guns are there You've got the board position now. It's also Because it's before the game starts it really messes with so much stuff that wants to alpha strike you Right and it's and it's not a reserve You set the army up and then you do it So the point is even scenarios that say you can't use the reserves rule guess what doesn't care Right. So the whole army is really flexible Um, and you there's a lot of stuff you can do with this You could take one of these formations and then you could put in like a star drake and some more traditional stuff If you didn't want to go quite as gunline You could also change the vanguard raptors because it's basically it's a just a car unit So it could be a big unit of Junicators or it could be a unit of long strikes You could have less of them You could have another drop if you wanted like a knight of zeiros for example But I just don't think you need it. I think two drop All guns no weight in I'm going to deploy redeploy my whole army Nine away it's got to be whole even 12 with the veritan But you get to move as well. So the griffons can then run into their backlines get within six of wizards You get two three griffons off the veritons as well So it's a lot of shots. It's got a big blobby unit of liberators that are quite hard to get rid of If you put the reroll sixes against them and they've got plus one save and plus one to hit That's a tough cookie. That's not easy to get rid of that You've got the griffons So if anyone does decide to drop near you if they're within 10 You can pick one of your shooting units and shoot them first right So You know and it's got over a hundred and thirty eight. It's got 138 wounds in the army It's loads of bodies. It's loads of guns. So the shooting is not the best shooting, but I tell you what I'd rather have Roll 81 dice exploding on sixes rerolling ones twice It'll do work Then have six shots But it's got rent to and does like a mortal wound if you're on a six like this is Me like hurricane crossbows. I just love it. It's like machine guns. You just you set your whole army up next to me You just machine gun them But you don't have to which is good and Like anyone who wants to like redeploy and do all this stuff you do us before the game starts So, yeah, they can they can you can shut the whole board down before the game even starts You can give them the turn if you really want to Like a new griffons can protect you from anything that can drop And also the hurricane crossbows if you're within I think 12 and you try and charge your minus one to charge so Yeah, you could use the you could use the griffs to zone the back The back edge of your units to push out anybody dropping on to try to like Yeah, you could put the griffs behind liberators in front guns in the middle Individual griffons on the sides.  Yeah, and and like because you don't care about that griffon. It's like the best chaff and you get it for free so for me like this army is a lot of It's a lot of it's got van brecht in it and he's the coolest, right? But it's got good anti magic. It's got good manoeuvrability. It's low drop It's got lots of command points. It's got good shoes. It's got lots of bodies I think this list is extremely competitive. I think in a team event, it's amazing And I don't think I've ever heard anyone talking about this stormkeep and this de-formation. So I would Yeah, I'm sorry if anyone has to play against this I can't play games at the moment. So I don't care. It's fine. I don't This is for australia There you go. Yeah, no, I love it. I love the fact that you your initial deployment Literally doesn't have to matter, right?  Okay. Are you done? And then he's just like and now I'll redeploy everything to perfectly match whatever you've done Whatever your capabilities are as you've set up on the board being fully aware of all objectives like out in the middle I'm anywhere. I want to be with my perfect like lines. Yeah, it's great Like I've I've been repping this the the patrol. I love the inclusion of van brecht in there too to do it that direction Uh, and I love that you've got you're covering all three types of shooting here effectively, right? Like because we've got the castigators for sort of wren shooting We've got the hurricane crossbows for just mass shooting and the judicators for for the middle bowl of porridge as it were Right. Yeah, and you could play around with the thunderbolt crossbows for mortal wounds on them If you really wanted to but I still think you're better for the shock bolt. So I tend to agree Yep Yeah, I stand behind the shock bolts You do have a little mortal wound poke from the veritons, but I wouldn't I wouldn't go singing about it It's like seven inch range in your hero phase. I think it's yeah, it's crazy. How short range it is. Yes But then brecht can do it to Death and chaos. They don't have to be wizards and yeah, yes, he can do it to like vampires I think he gets on the hit against vampires. Yeah, he has he has special vampire killing rules Yeah, he doesn't he doesn't like these aren't like vampires. Yes indeed Uh, no, this is fantastic. I love it.  So, uh, yeah, I I was I I had it in my basket and I was gonna buy it and I went no Don't talk about it.  I thought it was perfect No, this is great. Yeah, this is what I'm talking about and I love I love an unusual storm cast army like this like this is very Uh, not what people would expect to see certainly. That's great. It won't be the last today either Okay, well speaking of which tom Let's go to one of your next list which is slaves to darkness Yes, I dolled us Yeah, so we haven't heard a lot of talk about idolaters. We've heard a little bit and um Like idolaters nervel plague touched is really really Really good. Sure and it's really filthy um, and so I want to just talk through this and um And just kind of talk through some of the the power pairs and some of the synergies and everything Uh, so for those of you that don't know idolaters was one of the rulesets from Broken realms again. It's it's what I would consider a sleeper List because it just hasn't been kind of front and center Um, the most significant thing about uh, I'm trying to find it here in the book But I apparently it's not anywhere to be found It's in the back I know I'm jumping all around it turns your it turns your your uh cast chariot into a lord on chariot Who is a leader who is a priest who yes cast spells and get bonuses it gives you a it gives you an extra hero That can cast a prayer that gives like reroll wound or reroll wounds to a unit The trait gives you a second of those so you get to double buff you get to give reroll wounds to separate units You have a lot of the same normal tools This this list probably won't last long because it uses bellicort In his current state which he will likely not last sure. Sure. That's very long But again, he's just icing in this In this package The the heart of it is two units of 24 iron golems Which inherently reroll all saves Um, they're in marked nergal so they get all the the wonderful nergal benefits You can give them plus one save because of their stuff. They're just like they're a really hard very economical unit Yeah, I can hold objectives now Um, obviously you have the nergal cast war shrine so you can that you can float that plus one save where it needs to be Yeah, just to note. Remember those 24 iron golems are 30 wounds because of the ogre breacher who's in there Like it's a 10 wound unit. Yes. Yes. Yes. Those are 30 wounds um on a Four up rerollable or three up if you hit them with the uh the cast war shrine. Yeah Um, this is a i'm pretty sure this is a two drop list Yeah, everything in here. Yes, it should be everything in here in play touched except eight bellicort Yeah, yeah, so it's a two drop list You have two blocks of iron golems to hold objectives. You have the war shrine to buff For your hammers you actually have a 10 block of chaos knights and a five block of chaos knights Backed by the cast lord on karkadrack um And so and then to supplement their combat you have the cast sorcerer lord Who's going to give them all the rerolls of hits and wounds? It's just a like it is a super solid Nurgle list with like it's going to be hard to move people off objectives and it's going to punch Really really hard and it has to teleport so for that late game that sorcerer that's in the back Can just pick up one of those iron golem units and teleport them across the field. Yeah, um, which is going to be problematic for the enemy Yeah, I love it. Uh, I mean it's it's truly gross and also of course is plate touch So it's doing the normal stuff plate touch does of kicking back kicking back mortal wounds Yeah, and you're and it and I bought an extra command points You're actually sitting at two extra command points from out of the uh out of the gate and it doesn't use marauders at all But doesn't it There's no marauders here But doesn't it yeah, I understand. I get you uh, yeah And by the way, the other thing is is that uh idolaters gives the what vince is alluding to is that idolaters gives the iron golems the rule of The marauder like charge rule. Yeah, and so when you do teleport them across the table, they're going to make their charge Yeah, these are going to roll two dice and match the highest Yep You can get it so It's just a nice like balanced Slaves of darkest nercle list and oh it has bell aboard by the way And oh sure, of course I can't wait for that guy not to be the The cranberry of chaos where he's just getting in all the other lists Like does he have an army? He is just like he's just always showing up In every other what have you got there? You got nergal. Let me get some bellicor nergal. What do you got there? You got slanesh. Let me get some bellicor slanesh. You got some zeech about some bellicor zeech.  He's on his phone He's like he's like no, don't forget about me and he's just anything to please any of the chaos generals he's up for it bellicor is down. Yes He's he's he's doing the work. He's getting down to fight. Yeah, he said so Yeah, so uh, it's just uh, again, it's a two drop. It has all the essentials It has all like kind of the fundamentals of what you want Um, it's killie. It's anvilly. It has power pairs um It's going to be hard to remove. It has teleporting Yeah, it does everything. No, it's an extremely solid well rounded list Russ any any other any thoughts you want to add in on this bad boy here?  I I was gonna I have a slave list that I I particularly like doesn't have any marauders in it either. Um, I think the idolaters they've got a bit of FAQ So if you are looking into make sure you do read the FAQ because other rules in Morafi were particularly, um Full of a few holes Let's put it that way and then so you need the FAQ to to polish it up. But yeah, I like it. I like it I mean iron golem's interesting. So like the models. I'm not a big fan of plague touched. I don't like it. So I mean, I can't buy it on an aos so it's everywhere Russ if you're not a fan of plague touched can I interest you instead? in some Pleasure bound Okay, wait I thought we're doing the off heavens. That's right. So This is this is a battalion that exists. So we all fit that I don't I don't but it does it's real uh, so plague touched is a Like all of the the four god battalion lists out of uh, the slaves of darkness book have a version That can be taken how I want to say this they can be taken in either the slaves to darkness allegiance or in their home Allegiance like they count as both specifically in the thing It says like, you know pleasure bound may be taken as either a slave to darkness allegiance or a slinish allegiance Okay, so there we go so I've been thinking about how to crack the nut of how to get a good slinish list And I think I've I've gotten to it Which is use as few slinish models as possible and instead just use your old standby solid Slaves of darkness models, so The pleasure bound is much like plague touched except that it is Six and one right because obviously for Slinish's number right because all of these are just X being the god number of mortal slaves to darkness units and then one mortal slaves to darkness The hero of the appropriate god types right So in other words, you can fit seven units in here, right? Uh, so what do we got? Well, we got our I didn't put any magic items or anything on these guys Because you can just season to taste as appropriate, right now here I have them in god seekers because you can put them in seekers so everybody's got plus one to charge This is all about getting your charge on Uh, so we've got uh, like this is a solid center with chargey chargey Sides that's the idea, right So you've got the glutos and the 15 cast warriors are your center anvil, right? So you've got 15 cast warriors who can re-roll saves They're sitting there with glutos where he's putting out his neg one to hit bubble Do and work Standard easy and glutos can use his command ability on himself to heal himself. So he's a big tough boy Uh, two other fibers of cast warriors become chaff and just fill out your battle line, right? You've got two fibers of cast knights and a slick blade That guy's obviously outside the battalion This is three drop by the or four drop. Sorry by the way Because one of the cast warriors had to fit outside the battalion. That's just the nature of the thing and uh So you've got your two knights who can get buffed up by the Cast lord on kark as well as the sorg lord, obviously So they can be they're always getting plus one to charge since they're in god seekers And they can get re-roll charges and plus one to hit from the lord on kark and then they can get, you know reroll all hits and wounds and or and so on and so forth from the sorg lord and demonic power Obviously if your cast warrior unit, uh, for some reason would drop below the number You still could keep the sorg lord there to just like Oracular visions that cast warrior unit, so they keep their rerollable saves And the cast lord if he's up there, you know, he's gonna be he's gonna be huffing But you're gonna make him run real fast because he can obviously make things like the cast knights fight twice So on the charge with the lance when you go in ostensibly, hopefully getting plus one to charge rerolling your charge Uh getting plus one to hit rerolling all hits and wounds then you can also fight twice So why is it slinesh list? Uh because it's in slinesh and I just wanted to use the pleasure brown thing. You're asking me I mean could I tom you're asking me could I just make this same list in another god? Sure, probably No, no, no like why don't you just do this in slaves of darkness and bring because I have 600 Well, I mean because I have 600 points of slinesh mark things that aren't slaves of darkness I I think they um, I think you'll find that the lances are nice for a trap I I played a few games with lances and I just went to in source or like so much more reliable I agree with the reliability, but i'm a bet big to win big kind of guy, you see russ And uh, what I like doing is charging things and watching them explode And uh neg two rend two damage will often do that as long as you pick your targets, right? But I mean you're right like it's easy if they get caught flat footed or bogged down You're just like well that unit's dead and is it going to fight its way out of a wet paper bag Right like it's there's no there's none of that happening That being said this this list can absolutely like get your knights into combat even on decently long charges pretty easy So you can play a little more conservatively. So there you go um And yeah, but but I hear you like I went back and forth on it Honestly russ for a long time because I've I've used both configurations. Yeah, uh, and It's like it's very similar. It's very similar to what I take in my slaves. It's a 15 warrior block But I play slaves so the knights become battle line Then I I'd have two darts of knights one 10 of knights for the sorcerer to uses the regular visions on So I've got two big blobs bellicor obviously corn demon prince that kind of stuff. So sure And people ask why slanesh? Well, so let me talk about a couple other things that I like here Keep in mind that this is like yes, it could do this in slaves but I actually in this case I'm hoping that the That the benefit here is from the slanesh allegiance like yes, a lot of this stuff doesn't get the sixes to to uh To double tap because that's only heat knights, right? That is to say glutos and the seekers still get it But I like the seekers in this list. I think they're actually quite valuable Just because of their their outright speed they're faster than the knights They I like the fact that you have summoning on the backside of this, right? Keep in mind. You're still building depravity Okay, like that's still happening in the background Right and ostensibly your perfect world here is you get up to being able to bring in a keeper in and turn two Or three and you can actually then have glutos fight twice Like the keeper can make glutos fight twice and he actually has the highest average damage against a four up save in the army on a single attack Like on a single pilot on a single fight uh, so My point is is that it's actually like it's But like the idea here is to play by a rhythm Right where you've got the chaps Then you've got the knights who hit and the keeper shows up then glutos and his anvil shows up And you're just kind of like waving into them is the idea with the summoning on the back end to finish the wave That was the that's the theory Right, I think um, I think like people when they look at Sonesh They really underestimate the depravity and what you can do with it Like we originally like me and Byron were talking about bring the keeper on bring the keeper on actually 30 demonettes because it gets real or charged. They do so much damage Honestly, and like even taking on three chariots if you get 10 I think it's 10 depravity for three chariots is a really good bet as well But normal seekers are six. They get three real charges. They're so fast Um, and they get the head knight explode I think like people underestimate how much you actually get in the game And the advantage of this list has I think is really good is survivable heroes Yes, it's going to be really hard to actually like get rid of your summoning points Um, especially the karkatrak. I'm a big fan. I really like the karkatrak Love him. He's such a good hero And I didn't put like I didn't actually fill out the command traits or artifacts you can season to taste, right? Like for instance, you could give the chaos lord on karkatrak Thrill seeker or whatever in here or speed chaser, whichever one it is the one that lets you retreat and charge Right. So suddenly he like that is a crazy good tool on him in this list where he can like Go up hit somebody he does mortals on the impact because that's what the kark does, right? He can do some work if he if he's in trouble cool pull out charge again, right? He never risks it because of seekers like his retreat and charge He's not going to roll snakes on the way back in because he's always got the plus one So he's always can get back in if you set him up, right? Right. So yes, all your heroes are rather survivable comparatively, right So, yeah, you know, I think it's good about retreat and charges You can retreat out to get the distance to summon and then go back in. Yep So Absolutely, right so Yeah, cool stuff The like and I just like again, you could also put like you could give him the you could take your castle on kark Let's say you make him the general you could give him the retreat and charge and you could give him Like the perfect plate of protection. So he's also then immune to red neg one, right? Okay, great. That'd be a perfectly fine load out, you know, there's choices here to be made whatever you like Cool So, but yeah, I mean to me it's just a it's a good combo of kind of what all you can do here The seekers are also a big giant wound sink that people don't think about like it's 20 wounds In that you know, like there's a lot of stuff you can just kind of throw them at and it will take them a little while to fight Out of it, which is, you know nice Uh, cool. Okay Uh So that's mine. All right russ Back over to you, buddy List three fish This is not This is not anything like super fancy, but I think it's got it's a sleeper because I think it's um It will allow you to have a collection of models with some options to swap stuff around and with play And even the enclave can be changed inside an fd kin for people not following along, but um I think it gives you a solid army of things that you can use that doesn't rely on eel spam Actually with good play. I think could be good in an event of such a good play And then you can do stuff I've got some other variants of this which I'll I'll I'll run through but basically it's um an idle on Aspects of the sea with cloud of midnight And the reason for that is obviously shut the shooting down great to shoot the closest thing The the reason I like the aspect to the sea at the moment is because the matter is a lot of magic So Having the the rerolls on the unbind is pretty good. There are some artifacts you can take which are quite good, but because I've got vol turnis in the list. Um So you might want to take it as I think there's one that's really good at anti magic But I think you've already got the reroll sod rather have the survivability from the cloud of midnight This could be aspect of the storm because it was at the same point. You can just swap out for taste I've got vol turnis because that makes the eels battle line Um, and he's better than a normal Um, normal one, whether they're called king Um, but actually, um with the void chill darkness trait, which makes them a negative to hit within three Then it's just ishland guard two units of for the be like defensive Um, six more. So I'll guard for your punch. Um, and then sharks So two alopexes and a single alopex and they've got the net launches for the pile in shenanigans. So if you Shoot someone if you hit them, they they can't pile in. I think that's the rule Leviadon for with the mount train ancient which I think is normal rend one. I believe For the cover and it's in the keelion core And it's 1990. It's okay. You can You can I think it's varied enough. You've got enough big things in there. You've got enough combat power It's enough mobility Um, and if you want frills You can basically drop the morsar guard out and put frills and a sole render in you could then change the enclave So there's lots of options. So when I was looking at doing deek in this was going to be like my Um, starting point and then from here, I was going to have both the idlons I was going to have the other choice on um having frills and uh, sole render, um I would get that mixed up the squire is the one off the table the renders the one that brings men back Which is what I'm talking about the 80 point one So I just think deekin and the reason it's a sleepless There's people who are sort of writing deekin off and they just go to eels But actually I think a lot of the stuff, especially with murafi They're just really good solid scrolls. It's all fast. It's got good rules It's you've got the the the tides is great The what you can do with the enclave. So I've got futan Um, but you could change that to domhain or whatever. It doesn't matter Whatever you want to do. They've all got different bonuses But I just think if you play deekin and I when I I always see this when people play deekin They go, right, I'll take eels. I'll take soul squires. I'll put it off the table turn one. I'm charging you.  You can literally stay out of range of all of their stuff Cap your objectives by your time get to that turn where you've got your command point bank go in and just pop all those attacks And hit the thing you need to hit Then with the shenanigans you've got with the net launchers now from broke arounds murafi. It allows your eels to be survivable I really like ishland guard. I think they're really underrated Um And it's just cool and it would look awesome. You've got to paint lots of nice models Um, you can have both aspects You can magnetize if you really want to see the idol on and it just gives you like a great looking army that If you play enough with it, I think it's gonna make you really good at age of sigmar so I think it's a sleeper list because The scrolls are just good. Like I just that's just how I feel about it Yeah, I mean, I love this list man Because multiple things one. It's like an 18 model army. Oh, that's what I'd say. Yeah Looking at this. I'm like, oh, this is events kind of list Yeah, it's like 18 models, but there's still a lot of variants Right, like think of this actually set up in what it looks like like this model has an awesome looking silhouette Because it's using all of the different aspects of this army, right?  Like and I think it's this is such a good example of like How we I think in our heads all want books to ideally play Right where what you want to be able to do is take Lots of different cool things from across the book and have it be a fun competitive game Like that's that's the platonic state we want, right? Uh, like yes, I know there are people who really do want to just take skew lists But like for most of us you don't actually want to just sit there and be like herderder 500 marauders, right? Like that's not actually what's interesting Because you know that eventually that will get changed and that army goes what in the bin right eBay pile and sells for not not a lot Right, you know, like so I think with this you're You're building for the future and also I think as a player You're going to get better by using certain rounded like this And you're going to really understand what all these units do then you can start looking for those Other armies that might lean into one of the scrolls more than others But I I do like thralls. I did actually almost put thralls in this list instead of the Morsar guard, but I I I thought um, I might get lynched no But I for me personally I like I like explosive combat and um as well This is I think it's only a free drop this army because it might even be because it's um I think the achillian core is everything other than the characters So it's it's a fairly Fairly like decent army for that. I just I just like it. I think it looked nice as well. So yeah, absolutely. No, that's great Tom any thoughts before we go to your next list? No, I I am not a big fan of idk in general and I love Like what it's doing Yeah, sure. This is great. Like I look at this and go I could I could paint that Yeah, it's not too expensive. Yeah, that's easy to paint. It's gonna look great 18 models. That's that's doable All right, you have to just buy one of those boxes of the new From broken realms and that's like half of it. There you go. Yeah, yeah that the uh Because it's like it's like sharks and your your guy It's actually not that expensive. I actually I actually own this I bought all this It's not that that dear to do. It's pretty easy. Yeah All right, tom. Let's talk about your your last list here. We're gonna do three each Uh, so let's talk about your storm cast list. So my storm cast list. It's funny because this is my version of the Hey, I just like the models. I like what it does Fighting right? Yeah, this is my um, I love this list I do and I don't know why Because it's not good In the classic sense But in the traditional sense of winning games It's not good, but that doesn't matter. Yeah, it does everything I do, right? Sure So it it's it's a five drop list. So it's a higher than most normal lists Um, I've been a I've been a buyer of cleansing flanks for a long time It never really performed like people thought it was going to Um, but I I'm still a big fan of it And so what it gives me is it gives me two objective holding units Uh, two tenors of sequiturs, right? Um, it gives me a five person liberators that I can sit up in the heavens to take an objective or a screen if I need it Um, it gives me the power pair and also I'll have that five of evocators up in the heavens probably Um, and then it gives me uh, the power pair of my general with the three Evocators on drape align so you have this like little four man unit of drape aligned who on the charge are pretty punchy um, the general is going to be there with them and he can either Um Support the like because he's on a drake line. He can he's a fairly highly mobile piece With a run and so if he needs to be somewhere he can support a number of different fights If he if he backs the drake lines, he's going to give them plus one to wound um because of the the mount trait um, if you move in behind the star drake the star drake is Going to be on a base two up save Yeah, re-rolling ones because of his his built-in shield Yeah, the castellan can be wherever he needs to be um With supporting either any of the back field or pushing up and supporting any of the units charging um The one example if you needed him to support the star drake because you needed like Some unbreakable anvil against just like mass numbers of attacks that isn't mortal wound based Like great. All of a sudden the star drake's on a one up save and it's like Right and yeah, or or I can push the castellan up with the star drake and put the drake line the lord economy up with the um With the evocators on drake line, right? Like they can pair off and go their own ways And the castellan can still be 18 inches back to buff that star drake Um star drake with stormlings since it hasn't been a rata is still a powerhouse Because that means that on the charge and on every pile in it does a d3 mortals. Yeah um And so right now like when he goes in he's going to do two d3 mortals Because he's going to charge over an inch and then come back half, you know, like Just go over the base and come back and the charge is a move so it triggers the d3 mortals And on a pile in he's going to pile in just a little bit over come back duty three mortals um he's uh A mere, you know starter rank with mirrors to shield still a big deal It's still hard to kill in shooting and where in a shooting have a heavy meta The the lantern on the castellan is still great for forcing rerolls of sixes I didn't put the spells here, but I would probably uh choose the spell that kicks back mortals on On sixes of save Yeah For to hit on from the arcanum to hit on the star drake um So that you can send him in and just probably bounce more mortals between that and the reverberating like the shield between those two bounce backs on mortals And on top of all that there's this really weird like Small synergy that I love and that's when you have a star drake You get plus one to cast within 18 inches Which suddenly like when most of your army is a casting army Sure with all of your evocators and sequiturs in arcanum like that plus one actually like broadcast to all of those units which they don't normally get those pluses so I just like I love this list Like it lets me play with all the new models the pretty models. I'd love another three evocators on drakeline I'd love if that was a six man unit, you know, I'd love if I could tweak it and have a little bit more here But in general, I like what it's doing sure No, it's filling a lot of good roles. You've got some big anvils. You've got some decent enough hammers You've got a lot of mobility and you've got your your classic deck chair liberators Who are just back there like they pop up into the battle? Pop them deck chairs sit down on that back objective and be like Settle in boys. This one's working. We're watching a good fight today going nowhere They're like the guys they've got like they spell out like storm on their chest, don't they like the guys They were wearing no top just Yeah You need to model them with like beer cans on the heads, don't you? The beer helmets and then do across the shield like scrape off the field to do like the storm across their five shields A d and a fence, right? That's the thing and it Like it and it lets me play with the models that I want.  That is true Like don't count on him to be like a hammer. He's not no, but in this list He can be very very very hard to remove. He's annoying.  He goes after the hordes of infantry Right choose the bits, right? Yeah, that's always way better And because the more attacks they roll the more chance they got hurt themselves So you're like, yeah, keep it in me. Just keep hitting me Yeah, he wants to be up against hordes where his shield kickback is working His tail sweep is working and his bites like his the the jaws Uh are not to be underestimated on a start make like that is the thing that can do work Because you can still swallow specific models And his swallow is you pile in after everybody else Yes, he follows three models So you wait for them to pile in and then you figure out where in their line They're more than an inch and then you eat those three models and pull half their unit Right, I would also point out that his bite is what is equal to or greater than Right, so he like he can't fail to eat one wound models Like hackatoses and you know things that do stuff Right, there are plenty of models that do stuff in units And he can specifically chomp chomp chomp, but chewy chomp get those get those right out of here We were doing we were doing a list tech today on and the cheer you came on the show as a guest He threw out a double star drake list idea and we come up with quite a funky list and Yeah, I'm a big fan of star drinks and have you thought about with this list? I don't know if you've you know, but I think the tempus lords command ability Recycling you get I think the drackeling command ability isn't FAQed so you can do more than once it's plus one attack And tempus lords gives you plus one command ability And you get an art of fact that every time you spend one on a five up you get it back Yeah, and I believe That they have an FAQed the drackeling guys one that is it isn't more than once per phase So you can stack it on the drackelings Interesting. I had a I had a list which was nine drackelings with the guy and it was just like Dump it all and every five up dump another one and just go go go go cats go And you don't have to be generic in here like I just went with a generic Like you can get starch defender. Yeah, yeah, right just as utility like I like this list isn't dependent upon sawn defender, right, but it can use it and that's the key is that He can run and just be near a unit if that unit needs to hold I think but yeah Stormcast is one of the books where the generic non Like non tempo and non host whatever you want to call it. It's actually still okay because of staunch defender mary shale Yeah, yeah, absolutely. Yes, you know Yeah, it's one of the things we talked about that like the ones that there are like maybe three books where the non Subfaction is still really competitive and it's because they all have like some very competitive Either, you know command trade or command trade plus artifact that you can like effectively build a strat around Right there. They're interesting enough that they're stratable Yeah, I agree All right, cool Yeah, like again, I'd like some of the points to be lower Right, like I'd like to be able to do have a little bit more here But uh, this will get the job done Like if you play it right if you have the right matchups like it'll like it'll win games Nice muddles too, man Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, and again doable like this is a very doable Army, right? It's not a huge number of models. It's very like this is this is very achievable All right, so speaking we'll go to my last list speaking of Not taking the sub faction Dison orc dison orc show now Uh, so we're gonna talk about some iron jaws in the war clan iron jaws where we have iron jaws in an iron fist uh, so This is my version of iron jaws that I run Uh, this asks the question. What are you gonna do When the mega boss on maw crusher runs wild on you and or everything else in the army? Uh, because basically if every good army asks a question the question this army asks is Uh, can you handle getting punched in the face really hard, right? Like Mike Tyson used to say everybody's got a plan until they get punched in the face Yeah This is the Mike Tyson of lists right now like get your fec out of here. I'll hit harder than anybody. Okay So, uh, the reason I'm in iron jaws is because so I can take brutish cunning Which is again another build around command rate. It lets you mighty destroyers for free. I'm an iron fist So the the boss in the gorgon took and mighty destroyers for free. All right And which is by the way, that's the ability that lets you either move uh, or Fight in the hero phase. That's how you're going to use it all the time. You can also charge but okay um So very good. Uh, you'll notice a distinct last of casters because casters are garbage. We don't need those Uh, that is a that is a trap Taking casters in a world of spell doms, especially a sub par overcosted caster Get that out of here. You know what spell I like to cast plus one to damage You know how you do that? I point at the unit and go you have plus one to damage now Because I beat these sticks together. That's my favorite spell plus one to damage best spell Okay, and I don't need to roll anything to make that happen and I got three war channers to do it okay so, uh The mega bustle ball crush has the brutish cunning standard loadout, which is that hacka and choppa He's got metal ripper's claw, which is the neg three rend you put that on his main attack Puts him from neg one to neg three rend That's right. Still got that old school neg three rend and we took the mount trait meanan and you might think but vince Don't you want the four of spell shrug? No No I want things that do damage period This is about damage.   What what is best in life? It is to crush your enemies the average damage on the mega boss against the four up save by the way is in the 40s Okay, in this build out So like if you if you use your command ability to give yourself plus one to hit Which you absolutely should by the way because you're not using your you're getting your free movements Anyways, so hence you're saving your command points for your plus one to hit the go on lads get stuck in So you will like why damage it is a lot of damage There's a lot of armies that want to dps check you in the meta right now Right like things that just want to say look i've got 200 wounds I don't care Just more to kill like your mega gargants here in a dps. Check me. I'll lift whatever mega gargant you've got I'll pull him off the board like he wasn't even looking like that is not gonna be that's not like just That guy will cease existing. I will bowl him over As though he were nothing more than some tiny tree On in a field in a hurricane.   Everything should always have plus one to damage Period like that's the premise if something's fighting it has plus one to damage And then the war trainers you take get them get them and fix them like whatever I don't rate kill a beat very much because my war trainers often don't have to be in range the thing I want to shoot off and and hit But get them to make sure I get the 3d6 charge can often be a big deal Like it's movement movement movement movement wins games killing things when you show up wins games This list does both the mega boss can easily cover 30 35 inches in a turn Like it's not hard for him if you then get him beat as well. It's like He's everywhere. You want to be like you'll go four feet across the table, right? Uh, so it's just like explosive speed and hitting power Uh, yeah, so that's the list. It's it is This is everything I love in war hammer distilled into a list again very doable not a lot of models Right, this is like 20. What is this? Uh, 12? 22 27 models done and dusted right and uh As usual like yeah, I mean it's it's it's what I like now It's susceptible to people who are going to like it's susceptible to goofy tricks Right, like some people will answer your I can beat your lot of damage By doing goofy tricks to shut you out and stuff like that and that's a problem.   I I really like um Ion suns and I like some of the stuff you can do with that and when I was writing When the orc walkhands book came out I really I like I like movement techie tricksy stuff Which is so like stuff with like iron suns and using like iron fist and I had allied Fungoid cave shamans for the command points with award with the teleport spell I had a lot of like stuff like that because I found it It gave me lots more options on the table But I still put destroyer on the more cresher because I'm like no I want to go in and I just want I just want to smash whatever I fight So I completely uh, I'm completely down with the concept is it's great Yeah, I mean And keep in mind that Yes, you know sometimes people like hermdar will get you Stuff like that because they'll you'll charge into them and then Da da da da they do their dumb crap and fight you first twice and that's real annoying So you just don't deal with them, right? Like the way you deal with that in this army is you just feed them three pigs Right and you just go that doesn't matter.  Yeah, here's some bacon fry it up My pigs have beer barrels on the back of them too. So like I'm a full breakfast when we get to you. Okay Bacon a bit. I'm loving it. Absolutely But like there's you're not going to have anything else left So I hope those hearthgarder are able fast enough to get around the table because I'm pretty sure I'm raster than you Yeah, it's like I I've I've fought off. I've squared off against a hermdar lords of lodge before with this and at the end of the game The the fireslayer You know hearthgard berserker big death star block was still alive and I had won the game soundly and they were standing alone With the battle smith while the fireslayer player had nothing else left and was in the center of like he had that one objective And it was really his and that was it You know, I mean, that's the key, right? You just got it. You got to remember not to get caught up in traps Is what I would say Yeah And you don't have to charge turn one Right. Oh no, I almost never charged turn one unless somebody like actually just offers me the win Right, like if they just fail to chat properly and I can easily just kill anything of value in their army turn one Like sure, of course, I'm gonna do that like all yeah, I'll win the game turn one sounds fun But but most of time no you're like you're moving stuff around you're pushing out because you can be way back You can set up so far outside of their threat range because you know at any moment You can cover that Right, but you don't underestimate the power of being able to lure any oracle player in By just appealing to the green inside them and saying what I'm going like I remember playing a game with my bloodbounds and I had raft mongers back when they made you attack yourself Um, and the guy was like, oh, I could could I might go in on the first turn and I was like, well, you know You are playing iron jaws. You probably should right? I mean, that's what you do, right? I'm like Killed the blood warriors really well and then the raft mongers went in and went yeah, thanks very much, buddy So but there's only so much an orc player can stand off without fighting you sure just gonna like throw the little Match onto the fire and then they're like that. Whoa Straight in like yeah, that's a good idea.  Am I killing a thing of value here? Right because you you know, there's there is limited, but yeah, it's like This this just plays every way I want to play warhammer. Like it's fast. It's fun It hits like a mac truck going 80 down the highway, right? Like it is It will it will oftentimes just that kind of oppressive damage will literally just knock people back Like when I say it's the Tyson play it's really like that because a lot of people haven't played something that's this Overwhelming on damage Punching. Yeah, and like all of a sudden they'll they'll have something that they thought would survive and those two units will just evaporate And they'll whoa all of a sudden they're holding like their their game plan is rocked, right?  Obviously you're choosing the right units in order to activate.  And and then you go. Okay. Now that i'm done fighting You may fight now With the one unit you have left. Is this like the new the new old snatch is what you're saying? Yeah, kind of every friend then they get to fight fight everything and they Let me show you how to always strike first. Yes, exactly You've just got to ramp the the damage up to a million and then this this army gains always strike first, right?  Yeah punch hot enough you'd be fine. Exactly. Yes. There you go. I'll get it All right boys. Well, there we go. I'm sure there's plenty of lists. We didn't cover. I think there's lots of other sleeper lists I think there's so many interesting lists across so many armies. We didn't touch If you out there have got your own that you want to throw down in the comments, please do share your own cool list There's a lot of good stuff out there that I think is competitive that people are aren't uh aren't paying as much attention to because it's easy to only see the headline of like You know Barak Zilfin fangs of sotec seraphon Sayer LRL I don't know like change any daughter's list. Do you want to play? Yeah, just or daughters All parins all of it. Yeah, I'd have changed left over. Yeah, exactly So, I mean there's but there's a lot more beyond that and these lists can give At least a good game.  I think and that's what's important You're not gonna feel like you're on the back foot or something like that. They're gonna be competitive So there you go. Russ. Thank you so much, buddy. This was this was great. Appreciate you sharing all the list tech being on Yeah, I love it. I love being I love a good list tech Um, so I love being on the show you so thanks for having me on uh, oh, don't forget all the face hammer guys are on Uh on youtube if you're not already subbed to them You absolutely should be their channel will be linked down below So go hit them up give them a sub watch their great content. They're doing fantastic stuff For all of you out there. Thank you so much for watching give it a like it helps other people find the show We really appreciate it when you just hit that little like button. It's so easy and so fast Subscribe obviously if you haven't already, uh, we're here every week doing this kind of shenanigans Uh, I felt that was appropriate given st. Patty's day. This is the one day of the year where I think you can use that On ironically and of course for all of you out there. Thank you so much as always We'll see you next wednesday