with Thomas. Okay, we are recording now and you all should agree to that. So thank you for joining here Thursday, the 13th of July, 2023, the supply chain and trade finance SIG for Hyperledger. And today we're going to do more ebook planning. We also have this planned for the end of July before we take a hiatus, at least for scheduled meetings during the month of August. And I guess, you know, I'll just say it out loud here. I mean, we had a goal at the end of June, you know, it would have been ideal if we had hit that. But I think we're, the good news is we're getting more submissions from people in the last week or so. All of a sudden it was a flurry of activity, including Mark Romelovic from Oracle who sent some good and we'll kind of cover that in a little bit. So that's, so it's great that Ned, you're here, Jeff, you're here, David, you're here, as well as the rest of the usual gang with things. So since we're talking here, Hyperledger, all our welcome, all opinions, all thoughts, ideas, you know the story there. And please don't share anything that's from an antitrust policy. Please don't share anything that is confidential that you don't want out in public here. Let's see, summer break I mentioned, no SIG meeting in August. Also earlier this week, there was a co-chair or chair, SIG meeting hosted by the Hyperledger folks. And it turns out there's going to be a new Hyperledger marketing logo and theme, kind of basically the whole website's going to change a little bit. And so they wanted to update the logo. I guess it's been seven years and they thought, okay, we need to have something a little bit cooler, newer, et cetera, et cetera. So if you go on to fight, I checked about an hour or so ago and it's still the same. Their goal is by the 17th is to get this initially out. And eventually our Wiki page will change a little bit on all that kind of stuff. And it's going to roll out over time. Did they give you a JPEG or something that you can show us? Ah, they did not give me a JPEG. Daniela and David. Ben Thompson is the marketing person he says he's been working in at six to eight months for Hyperledger. Full disclosure, it didn't strike me as, oh, I love this. When I saw it in the charts, but it's one of those things, it'll probably be fine. I kind of like the colors and the graphic as it is right now. Remember Andrea, when we were merging the supply chain and trade finance, we had to come up with a new logo for our group. And I kind of like that one. So anyways, it's perfect. Yeah, it was very, it was very green and shades of green is what it was turning into. So, okay, cool. If you think so, what's that? Yeah, it's green. You set it perfectly and since the Merge on the 26, we've been touching on sustainability, ESG. So that was a good choice indeed. Yeah. So I'm just refreshing here right now. No, but it's still the same. So anyways, so that's kind of the big news, I guess, from a Hyperledger perspective out there. I also have, I think I'll put it out there. Daniela had, has been doing a series of presentations, I guess, going around to different SIGs. We haven't asked her to talk since earlier this year, but maybe I'll put that presentation link out on our wiki so people can take a look at what the ladies and greatest thoughts are from her. So there you go. Go ahead, Anybody in the phone? What is Danielle's role? She is, she employed by Linux Foundation? Is she worked somewhere else? Does she, what does she do?  Good question. Good question. She is, she, David Boswell are both full-time employees of, I guess, probably Linux Foundation response working on Hyperledger.org. The foundation that is Hyperledger. Her title on LinkedIn is General Manager, Blockchain and Identity and Hyperledger. And if she's doing anything else, it's news to me. I've never heard her doing anything else. Yeah. In the three, four years that I've been working with this. So, I mean, it's not like they got a huge team. There's probably, there's Daniela and there's probably three or four other people, I think, that are that are full-time employees. Thomas is a contractor from what I can tell. Okay. He's doing full-time work, but he's a full-time employee. But she's there to help us, then, our SIG. Absolutely. Absolutely. Yes. So, you know, we can ask things. They might not always be able to do it, but they, they, we can ask things of them. Well, we donate money, they'll do it. Pardon me. So, we give her 10, 10 grand, the Linux Foundation mail. Yeah, they'll be very happy. That's probably small. That's probably small. Their big thing is they want corporate members to be joining up. I mean, kind of two-fold big picture thing is they want corporate members to join up and pay and pay fees, right? Well, I looked at the other as code contributions, right? Yeah, I looked at the organization. What's the revenue of 10 billion, the Linux Foundation? 10 billion? I looked out there, the Linux Foundation, yeah, 830,000 programmers or something associated with Linux. That's probably, yeah, that's for Linux Foundation overall. Yeah. And I imagine that Hyperledger is kind of run as a discrete entity, and I haven't looked at, looked at their 501c various, something, or at their 998. Yeah, they hit it on one of their websites. 830,000 people related to his programming, 53,000 lines of code a day, something like that, and 10 billion in revenue. I wonder if they consider everyone participating in any way as coders, because I'm not. That I don't know. I don't deliver code. Yeah. Yeah, okay. For purposes of us, good question, Jeff. We can ask them to help us out in what we're trying to do here, and I guess the sky's the limit, and the worst thing that will happen is they'll say, no, can't do it, right? Got it.  Yeah, we're trying to do a Super Bowl, okay. Yeah, there you go. Do you want to talk about Alicia, Biannual Report real fast? Sure. Do you want to pull it up? So Biannual Report is to do twice a year. Last year, Tom submitted a mid-year. There wasn't one submitted for end of year, but we drafted one last week earlier this week, and we did the original draft. Tom added a few things, and we sent it into David and Tomas yesterday. It is up on the WIC, if you want, overall help. You know, we've had several webinars, we're working on the e-book, our LinkedIn pages grown for issues. Right now, most of us still have limited technical skills, that's something we'd like to, we'd like to get more people in with more developing skills so we can contribute code as well. So, we've got more people joining regularly asking you how to contribute, so we want to create relevant opportunities for everyone. We really want to see more enterprise participation. The LinkedIn profile that Andrea's been running has, that's where most of our activity is seen, much more than Discord or Confluence. Tom, Andrea and I currently co-chairs. Eric stepped down earlier this year. We're working on that e-book. As of earlier this week, there were 31 projects that we'd considered. This week that changed a little, but we'll go into that later. 14 profiles have been submitted and they're now being edited. We'll be choosing those in coming weeks. We've had four webinars from, you know, up to 14 live attendees to more than 200 viewers on YouTube. There's been 24 editions of the weekly news digest that Andrea put so much work into and other people are welcome to post things to those pages as well. If you go to weekly news digest on the left-hand side of the page, and the LinkedIn page has grown a lot, our planned work, we're going to get some more additional use cases to demonstrate how hyper ledger-based platforms are being used, how it's adding value to industry and adding value to the community, be doing more webinars. We still want to make the Wiki page more engaging and a more inviting place, a more inviting resource. Part of that I think is going to be redoing the SIG scope. That's going to take a lot of conversation and we're really deciding what we want from the SIG and what that includes. Looking for opportunities to collaborate with the other SIGs. Another thing hyper ledger asked for is participant diversity, which we're working on. We need to get more women, we need to get more people of color. I'm thinking that once we start up again on the fall, I want to start posting meeting info, at least for the webinars to the women in blockchain, slack groups and other groups like that. We want to get more people with technical skills. We want to get broader geographical range as well. And then we've talked about the four enterprise representation. We need people who are working in the enterprises to help us better understand how the technology is being used and what the needs are. And we also included a thank you to Tomás and Daniela for suggesting that instead of doing a single in-depth case study, an ebook, which in some ways is a bit less work because we're including more companies, but a shorter amount of information. And then I also gave us a template to work with and some of the existing ebooks. And certainly a thank you to Jeff for being a new member of the SIG and doing so much work on the ebook. You've contributed more profiles than anybody else and you're doing a lot on the editing. So thank you Jeff. Are you looking for people that do technical work? We'd like to get more people involved who have the technical skills so that we can do more technical projects. At least open the aperture, Jeff. You know what enterprises would like? Oh, God, I did that. I mean, I come out of industry as a senior design architect. I T-degree, but okay. I just want what your skillsets are before Python, Java, those I do those. But anyway, you need something to look at what enterprises, I know what enterprises are doing within something else I'm doing with somebody else, which I mean, just that it's very smaller website, but I know what enterprises are doing. I know what the Federal Reserve is doing because they still do a small amount of work for the Federal Reserve in the U.S. Is the Fed using hyperledger? What's that? Is the Fed using hyperledger? No, they're not doing anything. They are well, they're strategizing, but again, the Federal Reserve, when they start looking into crypto and they start looking at all kinds of stuff, they have to become involved on a world scale. They can't just because the dollar is a world currency, they can't flip and make a digital currency and not involve European banks, Asian banks. And so my role actually is to help them. For the roles of the Federal Reserve Bank, they've got a charter beside owning our, it's not money we have, owning our stock is big thanks for them from their big customers. And let's say your big steel company and you say people are starting to want us to start using hyperledger Ethereum through crypto purchases of our steel. So how do we do this? And they go to Chase BMO Harris, the name of the bank of America, and they go, we don't know. So they go to the Federal Reserve and say, part of your job is to give us the strategy that we see up coming around that with Federal Reserve, so I don't know. And so we have a team of people that help them strategize around risks and things like that. Hey, Jeff, have you heard of something called RLNs, Regulated Liability Networks at all? Yes. Okay. Can Andrea ping you maybe to discuss it? Because it came up on Monday on a call, on the on the chair call, I'd never heard of them. And so the thought was, so Andrea's going to look into it, you know, what's, what would that benefit be or not benefit be in from a trade finance perspective? And we have plenty to get into the VPN especially is going to be more more useful than Jim was calling the trustee. Maybe want to have a webinar on that? Yeah, we'll be working on it for everybody. Yeah, exactly. With a VPN with the first one in 2021 to launch a joint webinar in March 2021. So it could be interesting. Yeah. So I think Andrea, September, you know, that could be a good way to come back from the summer here with that if you guys believe that, yes, there's value from the trade finance perspective on it, you know, we're not just, we're not just waving our hands, right? Or actually, you know, there's some value in a real world situation there. Jeff, you're smiling, man. No, I had some idea with that, but I can't say a whole lot because all those stuff that we're doing actually leaked out in May and somebody stuck some stuff out there, but people are paranoid about crypto. Elon Musk must have got involved or something, I don't know. So the thing I can say that's not out there yet is there's some new regulations proposed in US Congress to try and make the use of credit cards. Again, this is the government, so you know what's going to happen. Easier for people to use, which means it's going to cost people even more money to get more complex from credit cards. And every time they do that, people start eyeballing, what is this crypto? Well, there's no, there's just gas fees. So some stuff's going on there, but digital currency, a central digital dollar is right around the corner and in the US the cost of using paper money is going to go up. So if you put $20 in the bank, they're going to give you $18. Sometimes the menu is $20. I run into this twice already just with credit cards where I've gone up in some event and said it's $10 a piece of credit card, it's $12 a few pay cash. I wonder how that's going to affect regions like New York City where it is illegal for companies to only accept cards. A local ice cream chain has gotten fined a significant amount, thousands of dollars, because they only take cards. Yeah, some places have done that. They'll take paper, it's just going to cost money because the reserve is going to tell, it's telling so many people just use cards if they're saying it's $160 billion a year to manage currency, to print it, manage it, to ship it around, and so forth. People that use currency are going to start paying that, not credit card users. Credit card users, they are subsidizing that through their fees. So what they want to say is you're now going to pay to use cash. People have been still selling some cash, but when that entity you give $20 to to buy a nice glass of wine, if it's cash, they're going to want $22 because when they put it at $20 in the bank, if they don't charge us, they're going to charge their deposit to be $18. You will pay for the cost of currency. It's all spread out today. And so if you want to use currency, go ahead, but you'll have to pay for that. One issue we'll see emerging from that is how this affects the unbanked. Yeah. People who are unbanked don't have cards. I think I kind of took us down a path here. Anyways, sorry about that. No worries. No, thank you. Thank you. I mean, and maybe, you know, Andrea, if you think that this is a good and Jeff, you think this is a good topic for us to go through, you know, and that David, obviously you guys can weigh in too, here in September, you know, that might be something for us to focus on. And if give us a little story on it, that'd be great. So let's do this. One other thing I wanted to say about the activity report. Andrea, man, you've done great work on getting that LinkedIn page with, you know, almost 4,000 followers on there. So thank you, Andrea. I don't know if that translates or not, but basically, you know, you've done a lot of work and probably unsung, not a lot of recognition for it, but we're far and away, I think, beyond anybody else in terms of the number of followers. Yeah. I think the first one, given sort of figures, yeah, six, going to have a meeting. So next week, with media and entertainment, sick, and going to explain how to do it, what to do, actually, to raise the followers base. So I mean, it was, I think it was Thomas that put us in contact. So good. It's been official to expand the followers base. That was a challenge. It was a number one. Can I just add something concerning followers? I've been speaking with some universities that are looking to really get involved, especially in supply chain, one of them is Worcester Polytech. So I've just been kind of advising some schools and there's a lot out there. Basically, these schools are trying to put together curriculums and they realize the best thing to do is to get involved in actual blockchain. So I think there's an opportunity to add young people who are developers and really get the word out through the universities. Well, that'd be really cool. I mean, you know, Ned, if you're doing that work, and if there would be like, you know, we have a university session or something like that for university, if that would help, you know, we can pick one of the webinar times in September, October and do something like that, if that would help. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. And Ned, if you're also if you're doing that, there's a Rutgers Business School Blockchain group as well. And pre-pandemic, I was speaking with them regularly, they even came in one time and spoke with the Social Impact SIG. I haven't been in touch with them so much in the last couple of years, but I bet that the group is still there, even though the leadership would have changed. And this might be a way to help facilitate different university blockchain groups going to know one another. Historically, they were doing that through a lot of hackathons, but we can create another avenue. I'll send there's a thing I'll send to you guys. There's a Georgetown, Cincinnati and Notre Dame are doing a kind of supply chain discussion on the 20th, where they want to create a kind of consortium with universities and also businesses and blockchains. So they're just looking for people to kind of get involved. So I can kind of because I work with the University of Cincinnati, their blockchain guy at this group called InfraGuard. So these three universities are getting together. So I'll send you the invite anyone can attend. They're going to have an in-person event in Chicago, but anyone can attend online and they just they're looking to just get as many people involved. But their focus is on supply chain. So okay. Thank you so much. I'll share that with the record stroke. And Ned, the other thing you might want to look at University of Arkansas, because they're really prominent in the block. If you already figured that one out. Yeah, yeah. Well, you know, the funny thing about University of Arkansas is that they're huge in the blockchain. Professor Mary Lacy is is all over supply chain, blockchain, use cases, things like that. They're the school is the Sam Walton school and, you know, Walmart and blockchain. And it's almost like they're they're teaching people about blockchains so that they can go and work at Walmart. And also a lot of them are working at our Vest bank, which is a Walmart bank. And our vests worked with them. They are all about blockchain too. So yeah, it's you know, it's Walmart, our vests, University of Arkansas, you know, blockchain. So yeah, they're, yeah, they're they'd be a great one to get involved to. So yeah, okay, good, good. So I'm glad you're already plugged in and already found those kind of thing. Yeah. And I'll give you one more. It's an older study Auburn RFID lab. You can look it up if you can't find it just ping me. They also work with Hyperledger two, three years ago and produces a nice report out of that. Unfortunately, the progress with the works stalled out for more technical reasons in this case, actually, or practical reasons as opposed to desire. Yeah, it's amazing. Some of the programs are really advanced. Some are just kind of startups, they're just starting. So yeah, but it's all the schools are there's a huge want for knowledge. So yeah, this is a consortium of universities you're saying? Yes, to this one on the 20th, I'll send you that it's Notre Dame, Cincinnati and Georgetown that are running the event and they're looking for businesses to get involved and blockchains to get involved and just kind of bring a bunch of ideas. But the emphasis is on supply chain. So the meeting is where did you say it's in Chicago? It's in Chicago. Yeah. Oh, okay. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. It's in Cincinnati. So, okay. Yeah, University of Cincinnati is running it. So yeah, if you're, I don't know where you live, but if you're in Cincinnati, you can go to it. So it's open to all. So, okay. No, I'm in Chicago. Jeff and myself. Purdue has a good blockchain group. Um, Professor Black runs that at Purdue University and they're always doing events, things like that. So he's he's got a great program there. So, okay. Wow. I haven't heard much from Purdue. So that's that's interesting. Yeah. No, he's, yeah. Let's let's see where let's see where we can go now.  You know, yeah, we can do webinars and we're gonna do webinars and we should do webinars, but we don't want that to be our main reason for existence. There. So, okay. Let's flip over here. So as Lisa mentioned, let's talk about status e-buck and use our remaining time to talk about this and what's next, et cetera, et cetera, here. So as Lisa mentioned, 31 plus companies considered, you know, we really, I bet you we probably had more like 50 or so, because we had a lot of people who when we laid out the criteria, you have to use a hyperledger project in some way, shape, or form. It has to be in production and you need to have some numerics that you can publicly share, you know, on it. There's a lot of people who, you know, they dropped out on it. So we have these 14 here. Jeff, I guess I liked it. And also before I turn it over to you, Jeff, we've just in the last week, we got one Dubai Customs, we got one from Go Ledger was in Brazil, I think. And then we got a number of our friends at Oracle, which I'm glad they came back with on some of those kind of things. So we're going to have to figure those out. And I did, after I asked Mark at Oracle, hey, can you can you work on this? I when I was going through it this morning, I noticed he said, yeah, once we've decided on a couple of them, he can, they can help us create the actual document there. So Jeff, you want to talk about where things are? I mean, and going through all of the profiles that we submitted or been submitted and your editing and where do you think we need to go next and what help you think would be beneficial? I mean, I have some time over the next couple of weeks here that I can dive in a little bit more. Ned and David, if you can or Andrea or Alicia, you know, that we can figure out how we divide and conquer this and kind of rock and roll. So Jeff, I'll let you turn. Yeah. So first thing I'll say is actually, I didn't spend a ton of time on it because of a couple of things. Once they were coming in still, and I did review a few of those that is it Mark that sent to Oracle. I went out and I looked at those. There's the olive oil one in there. I can't come to the other ones. There's a retrace the fashion industry. Yeah, that has been, we don't have any fashion. And then there's the trade finance, the Bosch Secure Document Exchange. When I looked and so yeah, those two, I didn't see numbers anywhere yet. I tried digging through them. You know, he had the link. And then I went out and started searching the internet because I don't have any context of those companies find what value they pulled out of it so far. Yeah, so let me back up. So yeah, I started editing a little bit. But one thing I did do, and I don't know if you saw them, is I was looking at my, so I have a couple of questions actually. One is the template we're using right now, is that going to be the one that we, that people see that we publish in some form, whether it's on internet or so forth, or does it get converted over into something else? Like that GSBN one looks like somebody, even though there's no finances on it. It's, I wasn't sure, I didn't want to do a whole bunch of work on Rava. So what I did on mine actually is I made some, this is on my entries, I changed it to where something I'm used to doing, maybe an industry was. I can't pull one up, but I changed it to what, what was the project goal, and it states the business case, and then it states who did it, who did the work, the company, their role, and then also right up top, it shows the value they got in dollars. And then underneath is the project and describes, you know, the fabric and so on and so forth in there. I just changed the format of mine. So you'll see two out there on some. Which one should I look at? So Bertrax, look at the second one. Yeah, not that. Oh, not this one? No, not that one. They come up funny, but if you pick up the second one. Let me see. You want to click right instead of clicking left. Yeah, unfortunately, that's where all of you are showing right now, and it's not letting me move, move everybody. There we go. This is the one you want? There it is. Yeah, it's hard to read, but I have the, I kind of looked at it from a thought standpoint of what was, why do this? What was their objective to do this, the company or the vendor? And then I put the benefits right up front and then I talked about the project underneath. I made just those changes because I was finding it easier in my sense to read these and I went through a number of the profiles that are out there and a lot of it is, whether it's the finances or the project goals all under the description. And so I wasn't sure, I guess you guys would know, is this something that people are going to look at and see what rate this thing here is? It's just a template for us because some of them, it's got to go down a bit to see what was the financial benefit. Why did they do this? So I changed the format and I thought maybe some people make a comment on the format on this template. And so I just edited mine. I cleaned up some of the project description a bit and I cleaned up the project description. I think one from, go back to my directory and look, I changed some of the wording around that. I haven't posted it because I want to tell that person I edited it first. But you want to stick with the old profile again, is this, I wasn't sure what this, what we're looking at the screen is going to be. Is this something just for our internal use or is this going to get the content picked up, put into some other template? The GSBN, I can go into the back one a little bit. The GSBN profile is the template that Daniela and Thomas gave us. And one of our concerns or my concerns was that if we just put it like that, people are going to come at it with a wide range of, I can just put in whatever I want. So I created that other template and if you look at the template, it's got bullet points of information we're looking for. I will say that in reading some of the proposals, I think a lot of people just cut it out and put in whatever they wanted. So there was nothing about benefits, whether that be dollars or steps saved for a process or time savings, because any of those three things could be a type of benefit. Whereas some people didn't put anything about that. And I'm still seeing a lot of what the goal of a project is, even though the bullets in the template specifically asked for realized goals and realized benefits. So Lucia, you built this one that's here? So the one that we're looking at right now is one that Daniela and Thomas did. We're not going to be able to get quotes from everybody. And I think if everyone felt they had to have quotes, that was going to be really intimidating. So I wanted to create a template that was going to be a bit less intimidating and gave more structure around the type of information to include. You're talking about the one we're using now? Does that make sense? Yeah, the one we're using now I think is superior to this, this is my opinion. Thank you. Thank you. Because it takes a lot of reading, even if we had the blue box, makes it look whatever, but underneath that diagram can be confusing to a lot of people. So I like that the ebook template is more of a non-technical description of business benefit using blockchains for supply chain. And this piece down at the bottom with the boxes and so forth can apply to a lot of stuff. But I'm just used to in my other role for years dealing with management is they really like to see what are you doing and what do we get out of it right off the top.  Okay, we picked our interests right away. And then they're interested in what did we do here to get this? So this is really neat, but we want these numbers thrown out. Decision makers like to see what are we trying to do? Oh, I see. Oh, we've got this benefit out. Really? What did you guys in detail do? And then you leave it down. So that was just my input on it. But I like this much more than the GSB or whatever. And Jeff, maybe to pull the thread a little bit further. I was not thinking that this would be what our ebook, we would just take this directly with the formatting fixed up and then we publish it. I was not thinking that. I was thinking that we would take this information and the hyper ledger folks would use some of their marketing dollars to create a prettier view of this information. But it has the information, just like we've been talking about, as opposed to, you know, like this GSBN one where not, you know, now I'm looking at it, there's no number in here that says, oh, why using GSBN? We were able to save, you know, $20 million or we were able to cut cycle time by 10%, you know, by using electronic bill ladings. There's none of that in this. We want that kind of stuff. So we're going to have to go back to these GSBN folks and get that information. Yeah, so we could even ask Daniella and Tomas since they created this one, if they have that data. Yeah, yeah. Okay, and I saw my follow up email to somebody this morning asking that they put what they sent via email into the template and upload it to the site. Because people are, you know, sending essays and it's not having the information that we've asked for. So we're not able, if we don't have that information on one of the benefits, then what's the benefit to somebody reading about it? Why do we want to take up space in the e-book with a profile that doesn't show the benefits of using the tech? Right. And even like ESG has become critical in a lot of companies. I actually talked to British Petroleum about ESG and another company about ESG. It reminds me in the days when I was working on the EPA's reform and guessing program for the government. I was working for an oil company. But the companies get these mandates like ESG saying, you have to do this. And so they looked at it and we go, we have to do this. What's the best way to do this? They're not sitting back and going, should we do this? Is it worth the capital expense and return? And it's like, oh, God, we have to do this. And so how do we do this, folks? Let's get out there and put something together or get, pick up some technology that we can meet this need. So ESG is becoming, I think, well, I should become, it is a really big deal. I think the companies are doing it. They're just trying to figure out how they can leverage ESG. Was it wrong? I think that when they first started talking about something to do with renewable energy or energy efficiency, they soon realized that it wasn't just good publicity, but they were saving money by doing things differently that were more sustainable. It's not just a matter of sustainability. It's also a matter of financial savings. UPS, by only doing right turns, by not doing left turns, saved money. They saved petrol as well as time. Yeah. So on the ESG thing, if we can do it from, this is Tom's opinion here. I can be voted off the island here if you want. Unless the ESG thing has some numeric benefits to it, I'd rather downplay that. I mean, we got enough challenges with blockchain and people believing in all that to add in ESG and add another layer of, unfortunately, it's a big discussion topic on the negative and the positive right now with ESG. And we don't mean to wait. I don't want to wait. I'd rather us not wait into that. I just want to be one example of it. If we have one example, that would be awesome. But maybe I have numbers. Yeah. I think if there's something that has an ESG benefit that saves this much petrol, well, petrol savings also have dollar savings. Yeah. Yes. Exactly. Or reduce chemical use by this much, that's going to have a big impact in human health. Yes. So a financial guy at PPP told me about ESG and he said one of the things about ESG, again, this is at a very high level. And if you want to talk about ESG, he said we have global investors, massive, billion people that own billions of dollars of our stock, pension funds and so forth. And a company like BlackRock, which I think is the biggest investor in companies around the world, I guess, because BlackRock, they have a social agenda and if you don't need that, they will pound your stock price. And so, again, that's a big, big level. So like PPP, we have ESG programs because we think it's good, but also we want to retain our stock price.  So there's a lot going on up there. And he said, no, we have that with ESG. BlackRock is our institutional investors. That's the word on the report. Demanded by our board. Stephen Shorzman does a lot of impact work in different ways. He actually created a major global leadership program at Chippewa. Yeah. So let's treat that as one kind of our diversity where we're trying to find geographical diversity, we're trying to find use case diversity, et cetera. If we can find one that has, we can pull that thread. Beautiful. Let's do that. So I guess my question I have on the further on the editing is, do you want me to just go through the templates out there now? I've done some others. I have on my C drive. I am putting them out there that I didn't write up that I changed. And just re-edit some of just, it's just a second read of some of the punctuation, clearing a little bit of stuff up. There was a couple things around. Well, the ones I had run through, except for Chippewa's Alicia, there weren't numbers behind them. Well, I think one thing we could do for profiles that don't have the numbers, before we spend too much time copy editing, because that takes a lot of work, we could also reach out to people who submitted them saying, we're not seeing these bullets from what we had in the template of the information that was needed. Like to do by customs one that came in two days ago yesterday. Right, I looked at that one. Yeah, there was no numerics in that. There were no numeric values. Yeah, so we need to go back to them. And I guess what I'd like to do is, Jeff, you're on the right path. If you can go through the ones that are there and say, yep, check, it has all the, we saw the criteria and the wording, is almost copy ready, I guess is the way to think about it. Yeah, okay. Tom, do you want to pull up that profile, sorry, that template from there? So scroll down to the bottom of the table. Okay. Okay, at the bottom of the table, there was a template file. I think that there was a, if you pull up, yep, there. So if you pull up either the PDF or the PowerPoint, so three to five sentences include which hyperledger they're using with the focus, the partners, stakeholder groups, geographic regions, business effects of the project. Of course, I should have put that business effects up top as the number one thing we need. Yeah, that was my, you know, oh, I should, it seems so obvious, but let me just put it in any way. It may have been obvious to us. It was obviously, it's not obvious to other people. Right, and I think we've also, we're using the words financial benefits or some sort of numeric benefit. Yeah. Right. Right. Yeah. Like the Walmart can of thing. Okay, 70% of our loads now are not in dispute. All right. Or it used to be 70%. Now it's 1%. Less than two. Yeah, exactly. So there needs to be, so, so that's probably the big thing, Jeff. If they don't have it, then let's call it out and let's have our list of what's missing. And then, you know, we can go back to each person. Okay.  If you want to do it that way, you know, as you're going through it, all this needs it, send it my way. Okay. I know my two need more in it, so I can get that. Okay. Yeah. So it is tough to get like the venture and I got some hard numbers on it, but I had to do some real work. Yeah. Because I mean, this is part of why nothing moved forward on the cap Gemini. Yeah, but I did get some good information on what that value is because the one example I use, that's using real sure that Skirga just stayed wines. They're like, they have come out and said, we're saving tens of thousands of bottles having to be replaced from somebody opens it up, whether it's a wine retailer or one of these wine clubs and they have to return back something happened. So, okay, tens of thousands of bottles, but their prices of wines range from, when they tell me $15 up to $350 a bottle, depending on what it is. So what's the value? So the wine club I go through, I've known them for years, I asked him, he deals with all those distributors. He got a whole garbage and got me a number to use for what they saved. Right. And not just saving the bottles, but think about all the disgruntled customers and how that affects the customer relationship. So the number I have with them is a hard number that I got from somebody who works with the wineries and got that from them. Is that something that they're comfortable having published publicly? Yes, yeah. I didn't quote them, but it's from the wine exchanges that is the firm that deals with all these distributors and everything. They got a lot of specials. They had Gurgage, the people, the name is after, and I went to it, it was tasting. That's why I went to them. By the way, I was at a tasting. The Gurgage folks were there. They flew in to St. Charles, where the place is along the way outside Chicago. So I got an average number to use. They could not come up and save a mean median number we're placing for some reason. Is this one type? No, it's, here's the average price of the wine. Depending on what price, the spectrum. Well, we sell. So it's a weighted average, actually, which is really good. Good. Okay. So let's take our next eight minutes here. I think there's a couple of things that we need to do. One, if Jeff, if you can take, just go through the ones. There's a group that we already have the profile. And if they're missing something, send it out. And if you want to be the person still on it, great. You know, if it's Ned's or Ned, if you want to take on a couple other, you can put me on and say, hey, Tom, can you follow up on this one? You know, I'm fine with that. Okay. I mean, I was not twilling my thumbs on it, but in the last couple of days, I've been going through and going through. I can rewrite all these things, but am I aiming for that GSBN template, or are we going to keep this one? Should we modify this one? Any ideas around it? I was like, okay, I'll change all mine. I'm going to have two copies. Yeah. And then modify it. Hey, if you guys want, I can modify that template and just, you know, take that little line about business effects and put numeric business benefits and make that the number one, the top bullet. Okay. And repost that. And then we can share that with people when we ask them to please edit their. That's what is likely what the problem is going to be is numeric benefit. Yeah. Yeah, I changed the DLT lab zone. I changed one other one, and I actually moved the content around to look like bullet points. I didn't put build points on it, but I thought, okay, this belongs up here. I'm going to stick this here. Some was kind of redundant for some reason. So I try to make it four or five bullet points. Okay. I can, I can not go fast. Okay. So we, so that, so thank you, Jeff, for leading the charge on the 1314, whatever we have that we. Yeah. Now we've gotten some new ones in the last week here that we need to figure out what to do. So we got the Oracle ones from Mark. Right. We got the Dubai customs. And then what was the other one? It was Brazil. It was Go Ledger. It was Go Gas. Go Gas. Okay. I looked at that one a lot when they had, I'm confused.  I don't know. I maybe Go Ledger is the company, and Go Gas is the implementation. Don't know. Also, because the URL that he posted to the table is www.golegger.io, so it's obviously affiliated.    I dug around on that one a lot. Yeah. Couldn't find any benefit anywhere. Then he needs to do, and it seems like he probably works for the company, so he would have, he would have that in file. It sounds like they're doing, oh, they're doing a presentation. They did a presentation to the Climate Action SIG on the 11th, so on. It was actually, because I play, I just work for Sherwood on that. I haven't done much work lately. Is that the one that was canceled? Because Marcus sent an email, I think it was this morning, saying that they've been heads down, prepping for the presentation. I think they canceled that thing on the 11th. They would never want to, because I would have definitely been on it. I just clicked through to the link for the meeting on the 11th, and there's a video. There's a video link. Let me, I'll put it in the chat right now. Did they change the timers? There was some reason why I couldn't attend it. It is now in the chat. Okay. You're celebrating a week after July 4th, Jeff. That's why you couldn't attend it. Yeah. I have it here, and I scratched it out. Maybe, because sometimes these things are in the evening, midwest time. No, it was 8 a.m. Pacific. So that was 10, and I have it written down here, and then I have, so it's on the CA2 sign. Okay. All right. Well, I'll look at it. Yeah. Hey, Jeff, here's what I'm thinking. Maybe just kind of divide and conquer here. If you could take the lead on the existing ones, the divide customs and the go-gas thing. Okay. Maybe Alicia and I, Matt, if you'd like to join in or Andrea, we can look through the mark. Mark, I have real pronounces last name. Mark R from Oracle. Mark Milovich, it looks like. Yeah. We can look through those and pick out a couple and say, hey, Mark, can you do this one? Yeah. That way we're not all looking at them and duplicating work. In terms of just quick look, we've already got, there's a lot of track and trace out there. So as much as I always love having more food-related track and trace, I think that the olive oil project would add less value than, say, the fashion industry, which we don't have any on, or the Bosch because Secure Document Exchange and Trade Finance. The open trade blockchain could also be really interesting. Providing security and visibility across all trade documents. So I guess. Yeah, that is a good one indeed. It's basically because of the recent pool of the upcoming pool of the Amelisa and the electronic trade bill in the UK. So we'll keep it. I'd suggest we do, we ask for a retraced and either Bosch or the open trade blockchain. Does that make sense? I see Ned nodding. So at least you said we don't have any in the fashion industry. We're saying you're looking for something in the fashion industry. Yeah, I don't recall seeing any fashion examples in the companies we've already covered. No, and I went down the road with the cosmetic companies and I actually wrote one up that I didn't put it out there. Yeah. Because I couldn't get, I can't remember who it was. I couldn't get info out of them. There was actually numbers. There was data value, but I couldn't get anybody to confirm that they're still using fabric. Because the data was like 2018, 2019, which I've seen on some of the other ones that have come out. So the ones that I made, I stuck around because there's data in 23, data in 22 and they're up and running. So I know they're on fabric. But let me take a look at the fashion industry again. What do you mean by fashion industry? You mean clothing? Yeah, clothing. There's a lot of issues around, especially in fashion. Well, there's issues around trek and trace to reduce fraud in high-end fashion, but there's issues around sustainability in fashion. The Everledger thing. Yeah. So retraced, the link that Mark put up for retrace, retraced to place sustainability platform on OCI and blockchain improved sales by 400. That's a nice little word. Consumers are demanding that, yeah, by 400%. So it's got a number in there already, just that one link. I'd like to see more than one resource for each of these things, especially if the resource used is on the company's website. Because company's website can publish whatever they want. Yeah, and I was very close to me, I can revisit it.  Alicia, what this is. LMVH is a consortium of customers. L is L'Oreal. M is, I don't know. No, it's Louis Vuitton. Yeah, LVMH. Louis Vuitton. Moet Hennessy. Moet Hennessy, yeah. You say it better, Alicia, than I say it. Sorry. The consortium of cosmetic companies that have done things around supply chain, also around broad, and they've also got into, you know, which one of them was showing how to use blockchain and cosmetics for supply chain with NFTs, with the lipstick that was all over here, but the lipstick they couldn't sell out to, and I can't remember. There's often a lot of, a lot of press. Yeah, I just, I mean, we're at the top of the hour here, so let me just kind of come back on this. Let's deal with what Mark has here, and figure out which ones we want to ask of him. I think you're right on, on Alicia, you know, we got to ask him for additional sources of information. Yeah, so I'll come, I'll ask her, to retrace Bosch and open trade. I'll suggest like either Bosch or open trade, though I think having a Singapore example would be good because we haven't had a lot of sing, and especially more, more resources. Andrea, do you, do you want one of those more than the other, Bosch or open trade? Open dream, perfect. Okay, so I'll suggest retrace and open trade. Before I respond to him, I'm going to make those edits to the template to move, you know, numeric benefits, financial or time savings to the template and moving it to the top bullet. And I'll repost that so that we can send people back to that as a resource, and this is the information we want the profiles to have. Okay, thank you. And then I'll let you all know, I'll post something. And now on the stuff with Mark, it's up at the top here. Despite what he says about Everledger, I'd rather us not include Everledger at this point in time. There's too much. And he's saying there's a rework, but we need resources. I can't find any.  Cool, cool that they're still going around, blah, blah, blah, but let's not leave them there. This GSBN thing, so this looks like a place where maybe there's more details, right? So he's helping us out here, which is great. In circular, we can include this one here. Yeah, I did that one. You may not have seen it out there, but there is circular out there. Beautiful, beautiful. Okay, that's great that we have that. Perfect. I think he had, did he have one other thing he added? Oh, and Volvo Group, Loggivity. Does anybody have a chance to look at this? No, not when I looked at it. I actually know the guy who was working on his name is Troy Norcross, so I could reach out to him to find out more if we want to have that be part, because I couldn't find a lot aside from just their website, but I actually connected with him on LinkedIn, was asking about it. I heard him speak on a webinar, so if you want to do that, he's really like outgoing, really friendly guy, so if we want to have that included, I could probably get some information from him. Great, that would be great to get the good auto industry example. Maybe Ned, ask him if he wants to find out a little bit more, and how I've kind of been doing this myself is, hey, if they got numbers and they got a great story, and blah, blah, blah, we've saved millions of dollars with this, beautiful, and then they could be e-book material. If not, hey, would you like to come present on our, as a webinar sometime in September, October, right? Okay. So that way, there's still an opportunity for them, for us to work together with them. It's just, we don't want them to just, oh, well, no, you're not far enough along to go away, we don't like you, because that's not what we see. No, I like that idea, yeah. Okay, good, yeah, as I'm looking at the website, I don't really see anything numbers-wise.  Maybe they got 20 customers that are using this thing, and they can say great things, but that's not what the website's saying. Okay. I'm wondering if maybe Volvo's just hiding a lot, you know, keeping to themselves. And that could be very, that could definitely be true. Okay, so Ned, you're going to do longevity. Okay, so Oracle- Did we already have a plastics-related one? I think we did, because he had also suggested- He did have a plastics-related one here. Let me go back to the emails. But I think we had something in the table with plastics-related already. I forget if a profile was actually created for that one now. I think this is from you, too much mark stuff. Okay, cool. Yeah, this Keep C Blue Recycle Plastics. Yeah. I don't remember if we did. Jeff, do you remember if we have another Recycle Plastic one? I don't think we do. I don't think so. I saw this webpage. I was reading it. The web pages you can see is driven really a lot around sustainability. It's about cleaning up the oceans and so forth. I went through those. As soon as I store it, I don't see any numbers that say, okay, because we had this blockchain, we used blockchain, we were able to save, keep 20 million pounds of ocean plastics out. Are we able to harvest these number of microplastics out there? Yeah, then if they have, then what's their value? Put me on it or as an ESG thing, the company is trying to hit. So it's kind of one of those things where you're reading, literally trying to get a feeling about, is this going to have hard numbers behind it?  Like some of them that we have, you drop in front of a company that's not using blockchain technology, go, why aren't you doing this? Are you sure? Oh, there's no, you're not doing this. How much money's been saved? And so those are the great ones. I think if we have an e-book where you have examples of use cases and if somebody who's not doing that, you got to look at the company and go, there's a, you better have a reason why you're not doing this because you're costing us money. Well, here's what the results, but there's a number there, 150 tons, but they're already collecting that. So what does blockchain do that makes it better? Right? Right. They collect 175 tons because they're using blockchain, or as now because previously they collected 150 tons and 100 tons of it went back into landfill because it wasn't recyclable great, right? Now using blockchain, now that's reduced. Yeah. So they just say it's an traceability and transparency promise, which blockchain is known for. But yeah. Here's what I'm thinking, Alicia. Maybe go back on this numeric. Okay, we look, thanks, Mark, blah, blah, blah. Here's the ones we're thinking if the numbers are strong on it. How's that? Okay. Yeah. That way, Mark, he's going to know he's better than we do. And here's the ones we like. And we're really looking for some solid numbers on it. Right. Yeah. Yeah, blockchain is going to be for traceability and immutability transparency, but I look at this and there's no reason to think that there's not the possibility that this actually costs them more by doing this, but they're doing it for ESG reasons. Yeah. Mark, which one of these have the best? We really like to trade finance story, right? You know, one of those two, we really want that. I think you said the fashion and nor the plastic thing. You know, which one has better numbers? I just look back through the table and remember when we were still doing a bulleted list of potential projects, there was Recycle Go and Deep Dive Technology Group. There's a link because they are using Hyperledger, but it's from August 2020 and it's, they're going to do this. And I think we weren't able to, we weren't able to find any numbers of this was created and what of the business. So this is a little bit more recent here, January 14, 2020, you know. So at least we got some hope here that it's still real when they're getting some value and maybe they've gotten a little bit further along a year and a half later. Yeah. We almost had a pharma, but I did a whole thing on that company, Metaledger, they saved billions, documented billions using blockchain and they were on Hyperledger fabric and then they outsourced the support and they migrated to Polkadot or something. But it's one of those things where I think Danielle was on a call and I said, you know, sometimes on these values, Hyperledger fabric enabled them to put the thing up initially to do the proof of concept, they get it working, they were running it and they just have to move support and they move the data over. And that was the best benefit that Hyperledger, that's not how you look at it. Hyperledger should get credit for that whole thing because Pfizer's using it, AstraZeneca is using it, they're saving up fortune on this. And there's a write-up I did on it for a website. And the company that's supporting it, they can remember their name, told me about all this. And so she gave me the detail on the numbers, like, wow, this would have been great for the e-book. We just have to say they were using Hyperledger, they did this all on Hyperledger. Maybe not for the e-book, but it could be really interesting just to know what have been the benefits and the drawbacks of moving to Polkadot. Yeah, I asked her and she said, that's because that's the blockchain support group I was familiar with. And they were able to easily move the data over. I shouldn't say easily, but they're able to move it over. And so whatever, you know, it's one of those things where fabric doesn't get the credit, but they could turn around and give it to somebody else. That Polkadot is actually what they claims it is, and they could easily move back to fabric. A year from now, oh, there isn't fabric again. Okay. I need to get ready for my next call here in 20 minutes or 19 minutes here. So I think we got a plan here.  I'll say it that way, right? Yeah, I'll really modify with bullet points. Like, I'll refer to Alicia. Yeah. I'll get that up in the next couple of hours, the edits to the template. Okay, good. And then we have, so I'm hoping by next week, you know, by the next call at the end of July, we got our, basically, we got our 10 that we're going to do. And then during the month of August, hopefully then we can have Hyperledger folks put it in pretty format, template, et cetera. And then we got to write some words around it saying, hey, here's what our sink's about.  You know, that kind of stuff. And then if there's something else, one suggestion that came up on Monday from somebody is, especially because it's supply chain, there's been some failures kind of along what you were talking about, you know, why they moved to Polkadot, you know, okay, well, because they're familiar with it. But there's been some big failures, right, and supply chain with trade lens. And, you know, so there might be a space in our document to talk about the counter factual's or the anti use case. Here's what didn't work. And so it was a good suggestion. We can think about it. I think it's worth a cup, maybe a paragraph or two. But, you know, it's almost like we're acknowledging reality. However, here's some ones that have made it work successfully for. Yeah, it's a new technology. That's going to happen. So, yeah, yeah. Yeah. So, so, so, so that so basically, next two weeks, let's see, we can get this down. We know the ones we got, we got the format, or we got this little, this template, right, filled out for the ones and we got all the data that we believe necessary to then write the actual doc is, is the goal here. Good. Makes sense. Yep. Okay. Good. So, Jeff, you can, you can be ruthless and firming this stuff out. Well, I will be ruthless, but you know, this is good. This gives me something to do. Good. Good. And, you know, and so hopefully, then we come back together in two weeks. We got our list and then I'll ask Tomas to join in on and we can figure out what they can do during the month of August, you know, and I'm working during August. Andrea, are you going to the beach in August? Sometimes, but just for the, for the afternoon. So, okay, so you're not making off or anything. Okay. No, no, not at all. Okay. So, we'll all be around somehow in August, and we can keep this ball rolling. We just want to have formal meetings here. Okay. Yeah, because I'll send stuff on drag as I were planning. We're going to Italy, but not in August. There you go. Jeff, when? Well, now we're looking at early next year, but we've narrowed it down to Tuscany. So, we like Tuscany in winter. Well, more like March. Oh, that's right, decision. March, April, it's kind of fun. Yeah. So it's getting late now and the airfare is really wacky. So, it's kind of weird. But anyway, I'll thank you on where to go there. I'm going to stop recording folks here. Okay. Okay.