Yes, sir. It definitely did There's always been a dream to be in this arena and to have a touchdown just huge for me Office in line did a good job of you know responding after the first quarter getting the run game going All I had to do is really just press the line of scrimmage and the old line did a good job of blocking off the backside To allow me to make a cut and get down Seems like your For sure I feel like in mesh as well with the game plan and whatever he has it start week to week My job is just to you know do whatever they asked me to do when my number is called and I've been trying to do a good job of doing that You I'm just trying to go out there every day and give my best effort I know everything will fall into place at the end of the day Just a hundred percent effort every carry I felt I was doing a good job You know trusting the blocking schemes and you know just pressing my holes I definitely could have been better But I'm hard on myself. So that's why I say that a line did a hell of a job Um, I took I took the experience of you know just coming together with my teammates This is what I felt like we had a good camaraderie going on and we trusted each other and we had a pretty good practice It's a good meeting room, you know, we got Mike CP Q every day teaching us different things that we can use and Even a younger guy so I learned from each other like me and hope and forming as well So it's a it's definitely a good group


Hey guys, how you doing? This is Rich from Rich to be live and you can join our club at trading club at rich picks daily calm where you two can earn rewards and Learn how to become a profitable trader in stocks and cryptocurrencies So we have some big breaking news a new Bitcoin ETF the second Bitcoin ETF now in America huge news. And of course, we're breaking it first the The Val Kyrie funds launches the Valkyrie Bitcoin strategy ETF under the symbol BTF Which is focused on Bitcoin futures BTF will trade on Nasdaq Nashville, Tennessee Today October 22nd, 2021 Valkyrie funds an emerging investment manager Focused on the digital asset class is excited to announce the launch of the Bitcoin strategy ETF on the Nasdaq under the symbol BTF So this is the way it looks right now. You can see it's come down, but so has Bitcoin So obviously as Bitcoin comes down the ETF will also go down Obviously, these guys are coming out with Bitcoin being almost at all-time highs So there's definitely a chance that it could go lower. There's no doubt about that So whenever you see Bitcoin at all-time highs Bitcoin is extremely volatile It has very big highs very big lows and you can see here clearly it opened up around $25 and It's now at 24. So if you're looking for exposure to Bitcoin and you want to buy a stock as opposed to Holding Bitcoin or investing in an exchange or putting Bitcoin in a wallet If you don't want to do any of that This is going to be a great way to do it and we've already seen that with the other ETF that just launched the BITO will pull that up PITO and you can see that that one Also is down because Bitcoin has come down Since the IPO and you can clearly see the trend here down as well so This is gonna go up and down with Bitcoin Bitcoin is obviously extremely volatile a Lot of investors love the volatility some investors are concerned or afraid of the volatility I love the volatility of Bitcoin. I think Bitcoin Can be very predictable. It also can be very unpredictable So what we do in our trading club is we teach you when to buy on dips when to sell on rips and how to lock in profits and The thing with Bitcoin is when you're getting into these ETFs a lot of times It's a buy the rumor sell the news event So people are buying Bitcoin and they're and they're excited about Bitcoin in advance of these ETFs opening up And then what happens is once the ETF opens up It's a buy the rumor sell the news event Bitcoin's already at all-time highs and then once It opens up and starts to trade People start to take profits People start saying hey bitcoins at all-time highs I'm gonna sell and then the price of Bitcoin goes down and then what you see here with these ETFs They also will go down. Well Consequently when Bitcoin makes its big move up again because that's what it's done historically always Then you're gonna see these ETFs are gonna explode So the key with Bitcoin and the Bitcoin ETFs in my opinion is to buy it on dips watch it get to know its trends get to know its history of trading and You got to watch Bitcoin if you want to own these ETFs Because they're gonna go up and down with the price of Bitcoin and you can see here that Bitcoin's been on this epic move Bitcoin went up over $25,000 in a month So, you know a dip from sixty seven thousand all-time highs back to sixty one thousand Isn't that big of a dip for Bitcoin when you think about it because technically When Bitcoin decides to go back up again, we could see it run up another 25,000 and we could see it at 85,000 that's just how Bitcoin moves when it moves it moves It doesn't move like one or two thousand it moves like five ten thousand at a time. So Realistically this pullback is actually very standard with everything we see when it gets to all-time highs We always see assets make runs up and down and when they make these runs to all-time highs Typically the next Thing you see is a pullback. So you can see clearly that this pullback isn't a huge pullback on this chart and You can see how it's just gone straight up over the last month So this pullback is pretty standard considering it just went to all-time highs Investors have been waiting for all-time highs since April. So a lot of investors are taking profits. So once all of the selling stops and the buying comes in again and Because you have to remember I think the number is around 500,000 new investors are getting into Bitcoin every week on a global scale So as the buying surges in when the buying this is all about supply and demand Remember Bitcoin only has 21 million coins in circulation ever that will ever have I think believe I believe right now There's 17 million in circulation Because this has a very tight flow and we love tight-load assets The supply is Never going to really grow but the demand is growing Significantly every week. That's why you see this asset is growing. This pullback is actually very healthy The question is how low does it go and you know, did you take profits at the top or are you holding from here? I'm still holding all my crypto. I'm holding my Bitcoin ETFs. I own two Canadian Bitcoin ETFs BTCC dot B. I Owned BCC and you know, I could have sold when it was up here But I've held because I believe Bitcoin will continue to go higher BTC X dot B. Now if I felt like Bitcoin this run was over and we wouldn't see Bitcoin ever go higher than these prices I would have sold at these higher levels But the reality is I believe Bitcoin will go higher because this is the hottest time of the year for Bitcoin and crypto currencies And we're just starting So this run will typically go until January February 2022 So based on historical patterns and tendencies things could change but that's what my belief is based on what I've seen in the past So I'm not personally selling any crypto or Bitcoin right now but That could change and if it does I'll definitely let you know and I'll be letting our club members know first So you guys to be joining the club if you become a VIP member you get access to we're approaching a hundred hours of training on charts trading setting up accounts Becoming a profitable trader and looking for great companies to buy low sell high Buy on dips sell on rips and we're all over the market. We watch the entire market every day We know all the hottest stocks that are moving every single day all the hottest cryptos all the new IPOs all the new ETFs all over the world we watch the entire market and We we believe that we have a very strong Profitable wealthy community that's only gonna get stronger only gonna get bigger and only get gonna get better And we want you to be a part of it So this new ETF BTF is the symbol put on your watch list put on your radar love to know your opinion on this you can see that the RSI here is At 47 so there's a long way for this to go up right now You can see the mag D is crossing and kind of turning up here So if we see a move in Bitcoin going higher I assume this will go higher if Bitcoin goes lower from here Then we'll see this go lower. This is my first video on BTF like I said put on your watch list put on your radar Love to know what you guys think about these videos if you like the videos Please smash the like button comment them below share the video everywhere and subscribe if you're live if you're not winning probably not watching the Val Kyrie Bitcoin strategy ETF symbol BTF trading now today for the first time ever and Only the second Bitcoin ETF in America. This is creating regulation and regulation is a good thing for the masses And mainstream to pour into Bitcoin and cryptocurrencies. So in my opinion, this is extremely bullish The second only ever Bitcoin ETF in America. We already have some Bitcoin products in Canada now. We're getting Bitcoin products in America This is extremely bullish for the sector extremely bullish for the industry Let me know what you guys think on these videos Let me know if you guys are buying this if you like it if you're holding love to know So you're a boy rich or wish to be live and rich picks daily if you're not winning probably not watching We're bringing the winners and we bring them to you first And if you're part of the club you get all the winners first 24 hours a day seven days a week Stocks and cryptos were on it. You should get on it, too.


Pigs who have been tortured in these gas chambers You paid for that I was vegan for about four years No, don't tell me ex-vegan story, what's going on there? This guy's yelling at me One man can change the world You can change the world Tortured in there Don't put this online Here you go guys, here you go We're going to need a court Respectfully, I think that goes alright today Thank you very much, thanks for being here And upholding our legal right to assembly No, I'll be fine I think so Hey everyone Hello We've only got the entourage here, police officers Sorry, it was a bit early in the morning No, it's not, it's 12 I'm trying to wake up still Let's go get a nice free space So we can have a chat Yesterday we were shouting at this whole neighbourhood Just letting them know that they should all be aware That RSPCA Are making a percentage Of the pig products That are sold From torture So they're essentially animal abusing scumbags This is their local area So go around and talk to people And bring this up And maybe create like a public pressure For them to remove themselves from the meat industry Because it's a local area That might embarrass them a little bit Because they should be ashamed of themselves for that You know what I mean Have you seen this before? Do you know what this is? What is it? This is a gas chamber That the RSPCA put their assurance logo on Have you ever seen this before? Someone already talked to you What is it? Tell me What did you learn? What is this? So these are pigs being killed in this gas This gas is like fizzy gas out of can of coke or whatever It burns them and they experience terror and fear In this gas About 30-40 seconds usually but sometimes longer Before they are rendered unconscious So it's like a torture method You from Horsham? Yeah I did RSPCA building is over here right? What do you think their position is on this? They save animals? Yeah So do you think they would endorse these?  With a logo on it? Let's say you go on there and the logo says This pig actually suffered to death in CO2 gas Aversive gas which causes them immense Fear, respiratory distress Agony Do you think that's a little different to RSPCA Which is, you know what it stands for right? Yeah It is against their message It is against their message Their own messaging But what if I told you that they RSPCA Not only put their logo on it They get a percentage from every product sold Which actually funds RSPCA assured Do you think that's a conflict of interest? What interest do they have as a charity To tell people not to buy pork If they're making a percentage on it It is against their message Yeah You should watch this documentary called Pignerance on Prime now It's only just come out three weeks ago It's all to do with this whole Stuff I've just talked to you about No worries guys, thanks for chatting to me Hey I volunteer for them You do I volunteer for them Really So what's all the crap about Babe Babe, Joey Joey This guy's yelling at me Can you come over?  Is he videoing me?   They get tortured in there Don't put this online Do you understand me? Do you understand me? I want an argument You don't want it online Unfortunately you're in a public space And you know You did engage with us So yeah No, you did engage with me You take care Take care my friend See you later I eat animals And tell the young lady That's not animal welfare Is it? Tell the young lady That's not actually animal welfare If you eat them That's not good welfare That's not human welfare That's not human welfare That's not human welfare It's gentlemen volunteers at the RSPCA But He doesn't believe that RSPCA Are involved with CO2 gas chambers He literally said to my face I don't believe you So there you go It's even unbelievable to their own volunteers I don't know You seen that before? I haven't I took this picture Inside a gas chamber CO2 gas chamber What is it? It's a gas chamber for pigs The RSPCA put their logo On that bacon It tortures the animals And he's going in there as well This is scary I was really worried for his life What are they doing? They gas the pigs in this country To kill them It's torturous for them It's painful Yeah It's really painful So do you know like a can of Coke When you drink can of Coke Or a beer or something And you burp it And it hurts your Like a burning fizz in the nose and eyes That's the type of gas that is CO2 I don't know You can get these guns Shoot out Rod I know They don't do that Because in a gas chamber They can fit six pigs in each cage And then they've got six cages It's like a ferris wheel Imagine a ferris wheel And the gas It's like 40 seconds 30 to 40 seconds Sometimes they're still moving after a minute But they're not just getting killed They're getting tortured For like 30 seconds And they're freaking out If you've seen an RSPCA logo on bacon What would you think about the product What did you think about the animal It's been treated well Exactly That's common sense isn't it But the animals have been gassed In CO2 I believe in eating meat But I believe they should be weird Like we care and respect Not just as like a commodity Yeah, but they are a commodity So how do you So do you think Okay, sink and farmers making money right Think of the industry trying to make money Can you care about money And the welfare of a sentient being At the same time You're going to care more about the money Yeah, at some point So that's why they do this for They're probably stressed out Oh, they know they are And every scientist agrees And it's most of the pigs That are put in these gadgets It's very very intelligent Intelligent, curious Very anxious So they know They know what's going on And I exposed the first footage here In the UK actually in history So if you watch this film here Ignorant And I'll show you how I did it Right And now we're pressuring the RSPCA What was it like? Horrible Bro, it's like a big dark dungeon Right So you get in through the top of the hatch And there's these six cages And they're covered in sh** Covered in sh** And urine from the animals Because they defecate And release all the Out of fear Sh** Yeah Yeah I'm a vegan You know who a vegan is? Yeah Yeah, I'm a vegan Because we don't want to support Yeah Well, you know I believe in eating meat But meat should be a treat You know Okay, why would you need that treat Why would you need it? Tell me What difference would your life be without it? Ask me that The thing is I believe in nature And rules of nature But you don't Because you believe in fairness Yeah, I believe in fairness So fairness is not a part of nature Nature is unfair And it's survival of the finish And it's killing And they kill each other But you believe in I do believe in raising Up above Exactly So raising above nature So as human beings We've got the power To be civilised Over nature So we've got the power To choose whether to Be animals or not Animals in nature Don't really have that choice, right? What is, you know Vegans are set too far for me personally What's the difference between Vegetarian and vegetarian? Let me tell you Veganism is like a philosophy Right? Imagine a philosophy Where you're against the animals Having their rights violated Like their right to life And being treated cruelly That's a vegan philosophy So it happens It's to do with like Like say this was made of Like cow skin Right? That wouldn't be vegan But let's just say I'll go to the horse races Put money on the horses And they get shot in the head afterwards That's animal exploitation That's not vegan I don't like horse racing Yeah, yeah, yeah And you don't put it like Like dog fighting No Circus is where they have The elephants in the So they're not vegan That's all not vegan So you agree With some industries Like that are bad, right? It's just that you haven't Extended that to these animals here Because we've been Culturally conditioned Right? To eat pigs Eat cows Eat chickens For dogs and cats And elephants, right? Do you know what I'm saying? I know what you're saying So therefore you're like Well, we can eat these animals Yeah But you know But they should be treated better But you would never have That position for dogs, for example You would never say Let's treat dogs better Before we shoot them in the head And eat them on the steak You know what I'm saying? Because it's a cultural I was a victim of it as well Like, you know I fully understand about Culturally conditioned Because you've grown up with it When you're going for this You're missing the target Everybody needs to shoot at the government I know we do And then Exactly We have been We just left there for a building In London Everybody's all got these things And we all agree that it's not right But trying to do that is Everybody needs to unite But you do have a vote, right? Let's think about this When you go to the store And you buy a bacon, right? You're voting with your dollar You're donating to these people To torture these animals, right? And as a vegan Like, say you remove Your support for that If you had enough information I don't think you would probably be a vegan I just don't think that you really Have enough information Because the information that people do get Which I was a victim of it as well Is green grasses Happy animals And all of this stuff If you knew what I knew I truly believe Because you I can see But when I say chickens I mean like What I'm most concerned about is the industries That you need to exist In order to give everyone meat and eggs That's why everyone's got that If we all boycott our support, right?  I shouldn't say that One man can change the world You can change the world You've got the power to change your life To change the lives of millions of others And everyone who ever did something Thought it was impossible to begin with So don't ever think like that, man What you're doing is you're taking the power out of your hands And you're saying it's in the government's hands Everyone here has power If someone's torturing animals Shouldn't give them your money If you found out I had a dog charity And I was torturing them in gas chambers It's very simple You wouldn't go Hey man, give us one of those dog burgers See the situation I'm in though I'm f**king sin You don't have the freedom of choice I understand there's other things But there are ways when you're skinned, right? Beans and bread And rice And all the cheap foods, right? It's like time I'm staying around different mate's houses Do you know what I mean?  So I appreciate this conversation, man, eh? Alright, boss Cheers, brother What's your name again? Joey, man Joey Good to talk to you Watch this documentary If any of your friends got Amazon Prime Pigner and brother, alright? God, man Don't ever think you don't have the power Right, brother? We all do I just had a good discussion With a really nice guy, eh? Good Pigs are killed in gas chambers And the RSPCA support it They're over there in that building Do you know what this is? Huh? Do you know what this is? Hey, brother Do you watch my videos? Loathe them How you going, bro? I was vegan for about four years No, don't tell me ex-vegan story What's going on, bro?  She's a vegan She's still vegan She's still going Good on her Well, if your mum can do it, why can't you? That's a pretty bad indictment On your commitment I know, I know What happened?  Pigneron So if you Have your mum seen it? She probably has Have you got Amazon Prime? I've got Amazon Prime Check it out, pigneron Yeah Watch pigneron See if it maybe Re-ignites Yeah The reason that you were a vegan to begin with Yeah I think a lot of people They have a Connection that they make And sometimes that connection fades Yeah Like We should remember why you're vegan I mean, like what the animals are Going these little sentient beings with Having this subjective experience It should be Caused egregious suffering And slaughter So You can have a sandwich That you forget tomorrow I mean, this is great injustice That's happening You seem like a good guy You seem like you know what You don't seem like Look, you're an honest man It's great to meet you I appreciate that you're an honest person Yeah And I appreciate that you feel bad That you're not a vegan Maybe this is your sign to It's a bloody weird sign But I like it, yeah Really, really nice to meet you Just remember you're condemning them You're condemning them to these gas chambers Where they suffer And try to escape the gas In their infecies, you know That's You don't seem like that type of person to me Lovely to meet you Say hello to your mum for me I'm going to school Sheila Sheila, say hello to Sheila for me We'll do Keep up the good work Be vegan Do you know what this is?  And 90% of the pigs They put in these gas chambers I filmed the first footage ever To come out of the UK And I've got Yeah, it's They try to escape And it's very scary for them And they get in a lot of pain Do you know the RSPCA? Yeah They actually Assure these And they put their logo on Bacon From pigs who have been tortured In these gas chambers Yeah The RSPCA That's why we've been protesting The RSPCA Because they shouldn't be Yeah, like What does it make you think? If someone saw RSPCA on bacon What would they think about the animals? Well, we've dropped So it's misleading, isn't it? Which is why we've been protesting them Bless you Okay Bless her She was so sensitive, wasn't she? Aww She's a fan and I've been vegan for 36 years Really nice to meet you Bless you for being vegan for so many years Thank you so much And take care Okay, just wanted to show you Thank you very much Thank you very much for what you're doing Thank you very much What's your name? I'm Cedric Cedric, do you from here this area? I work here Oh, do you? Yeah Are you a vegan? Yeah, I am Bless you, mate Bless you so much So that's why I just wanted to I appreciate that, man How long have you been a vegan? Three years Three years? Fantastic I think we're everywhere We're like a little underground club Everyone's coming out of the woods But yeah, keep doing what you're doing Bless you, Cedric Thank you Bye-bye


Auto light and it's 96,000 dealers present Tonight auto light brings you the wages of sin a suspense play starring miss Barbara Stanwick as Ruby Miller You know her dork. Yeah, Ruby Miller pretty good picture of her. This is her apartment. She's had it for two months What was he doing here? Don't know. It was dating. We got here shut within the hour. Oh captain Hello Frank, who is he driver's license says his name is David Madlock age 42 this city I don't recognize him with that kind of shooting keep going Frank desk clerk Frank to Marco saw Madlock come through lobby about nine o'clock Alone he got it here a few minutes later. What was madlock doing it? Don't know to Marco and a day clerk say they never saw him in building before mm-hmm Reported it janitor heard the shots called downtown saw nothing madlock's got a wife I sent the boys out to pick her up. Okay Doc tells me this is ruby miller's apartment. That's right. She rented it two months ago.  All right. Let's find her and get her story I want to know points pull it now through a miller right away. She finally got herself messed up in something too big to handle In just a moment miss barbara stanwick in the first act of the wages of sin What's going on? Hello, why it's tuned up time half For what your car get it tuned up before winter weather wages war on your engine Winterize it by putting in any freeze change of oil and grease and check the spark plugs too Ah realistic reminder johnny plug jack because spark plugs are the very heart of your car's ignition system You mean spark plugs need winterizing too. Why they sure do happen That's why it'll pay you to see your friendly auto light spark plug dealer He'll replace weary worn and wilted spark plugs with world famous ignition engineered auto light spark plugs They're engineered by the same auto light engineers who design coils Distributors and all the other important parts of the ignition system used as original factory equipment on many leading makes of America's finest cars That's why auto light spark plugs operate as a perfect team with your car's ignition system That's why you can't buy better spark plugs for your car than auto light Okay, harlow. I'll have my car winterized and check the spark plugs too Right, so folks see your friendly auto light spark plug dealer And whether you choose the standard type or the resistor type you can be sure you're always right with auto light And now with the wages of sin and the performance of miss barbara stanwick as ruby miller Auto light hopes once again to keep you in suspense I don't care who you are. Nobody gets you. This is my apartment pinhead Hey, what's going on out here sergeant? Who's that? Who are you? Say what's the idea all these cops you're holding crime school in my apartment or something your ruby miller Yeah, that's right. Come on in nice of you. I was just starting out to look for you What's going on around here anyhow? I leave for a couple of hours and Yeah, my rug his name is frank madlock interested. What do you bleed all over my rug for? Come on sister captain wants to see you. Well, I want to see him What kind of a police force do we have in this town a lady can't go out for a drink without coming home?  Hello ruby.  I might have known it'd be you captain salvatore That's all right. Yeah, that's all frank Tell me about yourself ruby you're losing your hair. It's falling out worrying about you The last time was 47. No visible means of support I didn't know we were going to talk about old times or I cracked a bottle We aren't gonna talk about that guy lying in there in front of your fireplace Well, they tell me his name is david madlock. You know, that's his name. What's he doing in? How should I know I never saw in my whole life How long you've been seeing him? What did you fight about? Ruby you've had four arrests and one conviction in your time. You know, we always get the answers Captain Doric salvatore copperu Ha Been in the drugstore since 8 30 15 people saw me drinking my malted milk while junior in there must have been getting his brains blown As do they all have every one of them. It was a bowling team on their way home the loafers You're telling me that corpse is the man you never saw before in your life That's exactly what I am telling you your crew will find that out by poking into everything and everybody in town They'll also find my alibi's good and that your guesses are bad If madlock or whatever his name is staggers into my apartment while i'm out and somebody bumps him off That's not my fault and you nor any other single headed cop is going to write it any different All right ruby, let's go downtown Well doric dream You booked me as a material witness as expected After all you had to take somebody downtown The newspapers tossed a lot of type around my pictures in every paper every edition But after two days it died on the vine I made three inches in the second section after that ruby miller released for lack of evidence The morning I got out. I'll wait while you blush. I wanted a bath more than anything else All right. All right. Just a minute. I'm coming Oh ruby, I missed you before you left the station. I'm tired of looking at cops captain This will only take a minute. I'll time you myself. Thanks I uh Just been out talking to marie madlock david madlock's widow The way things happened she still thinks that you and her husband were real palsy on the side She hates the memory of him now. Don't you ever give up? I don't like to see a nice woman like mrs madlock running around believing something that isn't true My boys peaked under every rock in town before you were sprung ruby They came up with two things that got you out You were in the drug store while madlock was being killed and you never knew the guy I'm convinced of that my bath water is getting cold. So am I look ruby He moved in that apartment two months ago paid four hundred dollars rent in advance The same day you deposited one thousand dollars at freeman's national You also bought four hundred dollars worth of clothes and drink it. I hit a horse somebody gave you dough to play a part in this Who we'd gone all through this before who ruby A key to this apartment was found on madlock's body. How'd he get that key? I don't know captain. I just don't know I should have my lock changed All right ruby. I'm leaving.  They might want to change at any time Aren't you scared ruby? You'll never see the day Grandissimo buliardo. What does that mean?  What was it to be scared of her? I held three aces in the deck and that was enough at least to make a starting bid When I looked out my window that night and saw two men in overcoat standing across the street from the apartment I felt extra brain I wasn't worried one bit Hello, ruby mille. Yes What are you still doing in town? I'm waiting for a phone call, but it's not from you.  I just said how you better act Sorry to disappoint you again dork But I wasn't scared that time either A spook call was always standard operating procedure for those kind of people It let me down a little low having them think I was so square. I wasn't expecting it When I went to bed that night. I was dreaming of a new kind of life And it started the next day with bell Hello, miss miller My name is victor sharon. I'm the attorney for the big man And that's as close as you're going to get take it or leave it My officers are in the equity building suite 203 Uh, I'll expect you anytime today That was the music I was waiting for dork I'll expect you anytime and I made anytime an hour later Salvador's two shadows followed me when I left my apartment and went downtown So I wasn't worried that anybody might interrupt my conversation with Sheridan and carter attorneys at law Uh, call me Sharon, sir My client asked me to speak to you speak up. All right My client has been disturbed by your attitude good for him He wonders why you haven't fulfilled your part of the bargain after all you've been well paid You call that money a man I never saw before in my life came to me a couple of months ago and made the deal $1,500 two months rent on a nice apartment and on a certain night. I was to blow town never come back You should have done it. I saw us set up a mile off.  That is not the question miss miller.  Dumb enough to know he needed a place to do a killing and someone with a rep like mine to throw the cops off I know who he is where he is how he did it and why he did it Tell the client I want to pay off to keep quiet lots of pay off Or I can tell a whole lot of cops something that will keep them absolutely spellbound I see well Well, this being up to start with miss miller a thousand dollars Look sonny. This is the major league I want ten to start with I haven't had much money in the office. You can get it as a bank downstairs You're playing a very dangerous game miss miller I've got built-in police protection at all times Or you have to worry about it's coming through that uh Protection may not last forever. Let me worry about that miss miller It's not up to me to decide the outcome of this affair, but somewhere someplace some time you'll be alone on a dark street And I wouldn't want to say what might happen to you. Well, don't you worry buster I'm going to be burning money to keep all those dark streets bright Now call the bank Auto light is bringing you miss barbara stanwick in the wages of sin tonight's production in radio's outstanding theater of thrills suspense Check the spark plugs too. Hey that johnny plug checks persistent, isn't he sure hamp johnny knows It's necessary now to get your car made ready for dependable motoring during the cold days ahead Check the spark plugs too You see spark plugs are the very heart of the car's ignition system When they're right your chances of starting even in the coldest weather are better than ever So it'll pay you to replace worn out spark plugs with auto light spark plugs The spark plugs that are world famous for quality and dependability auto light spark plugs nothing Finer hamp and when you replace worn out spark plugs with ignition engineered auto light spark plugs you get Smoother performance quick starts and gas savings You've sold me harlow. Well folks see your friendly auto light spark plug dealer and have him replace worn out spark plugs with world famous Signition engineered auto light spark plugs and whether you choose the resistor type or the standard type You can be sure money can't buy better spark plugs. You're always right with auto light And now auto light brings back to our hollywood soundstage miss barbara stanwick in elliott louis's production Of the wages of sin a tale well calculated to keep you in Suspend I don't think those next few months weren't great captain salvedor They were the last days of pompeh with christmas and a polish wedding thrown in I picked up my checks regularly from victor sherryden and I spent them regularly on ruby miller I never could understand why the two men you always had shadowing me didn't pick up victor sherryden But where I look a gift horse in the mouth I was busy enough being the bell of the boulevard the girl most likely to succeed Clothes all over the place money any place that were enclosed nightclubs. I was a bigger attraction than the chorus girl men Like flies in a sugar ball and don't think I ever got tired of it Why I even got tapped by the 400 Of course, I was sort of a late starter, but so were broker's tip and the yankee Let's see. There was douglas elward tisdale who had the mink ranches Clayton dashill who made governors hamilton moore who was in shipping and polo And talber g cooper Whose taste ran to women ruby I've known girls from bombay to Hunter well don't tell me about them. I hear kinsley's in town. No, no what I was going to say was You're the most exciting of them all. Oh cool squash head I don't come from bombay or hunter. So I don't have to follow the rules. Go get yourself some new material No, I mean it.  I came here for laughs They uh Who are those two people over by the window?  I'll introduce you The um the distinguished looking man lives on an inheritance and the distinguished looking woman lives on um Well memories, I guess. Hello, cool. Nice to see you. Hello, clinton re May I present miss ruby miller mr. Clinton fischer. How do you do mr. Fischer and mrs. david madlock? Talk about your drama That moment could have run 36 straight weeks at the barry moore theater As you know captain It was my first performance at trying to carry on idle chit chat with the widow of a man found dead in my apartment Must have been her first too because she excused herself and walked quickly away The guy who staged the scene cooper the coward Also took a powder by natural selection. I guess we're left alone miss miller What's she complaining about I wasn't found dead in his apartment Well, you couldn't exactly expect her to carry on tea time conversation with you Look, uh, is she a friend of yours? I uh know her well tell her the next husband. She gets keep him home That means keeping him happy if she isn't too chill to find time Now if you'll excuse me mr. Fischer, I'll go have a drink allow me to join you miss miller Why frankly, I like you If anybody tells you men over 50 don't have charm put salt in her coffee Clint Fischer was as charming as they need them And the thought came to me that this was my chance to move from the phony money to the real stuff And he was said to have more connections than the plumbing at the wall door I intended someday to use them and my chance came sooner than I thought yes, ma'am Captain Doric salvador wants to see me. You mean lieutenant salvador. He got a bust. Good. He was too arrogant third door on the left lady Don't look so mad sergeant. Maybe if you work hard, you'll be busted too someday Hello, lieutenant Yeah Salam What did you do kick them there's mother? No, the commissioner got a little mad because I didn't bring anybody in for david madlock What did you call me down here for a week? The commissioner's dropping the case What do you mean? He called us off madlock will be under him in the file I'll be on another case.  I played your game long enough. This is the end I you don't even know what i'm talking about.  Where do you get off telling me how worthless I am?  It was costing too much.   They called me off the case. That's all I know Yeah, well if the commission has been fixed it can be unfixed. I know some pretty big people now I hope they can help you. They will they will don't worry. I'll have my protection back and while I'm at it I think I'll have you busted down to sergeant And I couldn't wait to do it to you Clint Fisher was my boy By then I had him wrapped around my little finger. He knew the skeleton in everybody's closet And I was going to make him rattle a few I pulled out all the stops and he had my hero printed all over him When he said he'd see what he could do You cops who thought you had a corner on everything fracture me I slipped on a negligee and cracked a bottle of champagne While I waited for my team to go into action Hello Oh Clint darling. Oh, it's so nice to hear your voice. It's nice to hear yours ruby. Are you all right? Oh, yes, of course. Don't worry about me. Well, uh ruby everything's going to be fixed Clint Not exactly. That's why I called you I've tried everybody in town and I hate to say this But there's nothing I can do for you Absolutely nothing Clint. You don't mean that afraid honey. You're on your own Don't tell me about men I know more ways they can be cheap and lying too faced and vicious than you can count in a year But Clint Fisher wasn't the only man in the world who could fix things So I tried the rest of them up and down the social register and through the moneymen and tycoons and every one of them Checking out every one of them No ruby. Sorry ruby. Try someone else ruby. That's all I got. Don't tell me about men Then I began to get scared Scared right down through the little veins I locked the door and pull the shades And told the desk to let no one visit me and I sat there all night I didn't bear sleep In half the next day I was scared But then I remembered I still had an ace to play Sheridan. Yes. Yes ruby. Well, what's the matter with you? Nothing I came to make a deal a deal. Do you hear me too late? I won't spill I'll never say a word not a single word to anyone. I'll even get out of town. I What are you laughing about? You trying to make a deal I got the greatest deal in the world the greatest. You never heard anything like this. Listen I don't even know who the client is I don't know. I never knew never All I know is some creep I never saw before gave me a couple of thousand bucks to use the apartment for a killing I don't even know his name. He came and he was gone. That's all I know. Believe me. I Sheridan In the stomach The client he killed madlock because he wanted mrs. Madlock She found out last night committed suicide He he went crazy thought I told her But after shooting Ah, I said it was you And you don't even know him. Who is the client sheridan? He'll kill me. I've got to tell the police Tell me who is it? I ran out of that office as fast as I could make it I didn't know where to go what to do. I couldn't end up like sheridan I couldn't I couldn't Then I then I decided to go to my apartment get my money and try to get out of town I ran up the stairs locked the door and stood there trying to pull myself together And I got an idea Salvatore captain Listen to me. Listen carefully. Who is it ruby ruby miller now? Listen to me the client's after me I know he is the client the man who killed david madlock It's just the way you said I take everything back. I ever said to you. I'm sorry really truly flower I suppose you want protection. Oh, yes. Yes, please send somebody come yourself take care of me I'm in my apartment. I'm afraid to leave it ruby. You're a great girl for deals We had two men following you and three men following sheridan. We didn't find out a thing Tell me who this client is.  That's just it. I don't know I don't know. I really don't it was all above They thought I knew but I didn't I don't know a thing I played it for what I could get in at work. Now you don't expect me to believe that Got to believe that you've got to I don't know who he is or where he's coming from, but I know I'll be killed. You're lying ruby when you're ready. Tell me the truth. I'll give you what you want. Goodbye Don't hang up. Don't please. I'll be killed I tried to get you back, but they said you'd left the office I wanted to tell you about vetsheridan's death. That would have been true That's why I'm writing you this letter. You'll have to believe I'm packed and I'm leaving town and I don't ever want to come back I'm yelling it from the airport So long durek I hope you have better luck finding the client than I did Oh, oh, yes, we just found vicksheridan. I'm sorry ruby. Sometimes my personal opinion of people gets in the way of my badge We'll be over there in a couple of minutes. Oh, thank you. Thank. Who is it?  Nobody cared. Nobody would do anything Now ruby, you'll be all right. Somebody's after me. Clint, they'll get me. They will they Clint, what's that gun for for you, baby? Oh That won't help. You can't outrun a bullet. You've had a free ride on me I was perfectly willing to give you money when it meant something to avoid trouble But now you're going to pay it all back.  The police will get you. I know, but I'll get it quick. You'll get it the hard way Oh, Clint, please Hold me. Hold me up. How does it feel ruby? That's what you get for telling mary medlock. I killed her husband Mary was the one thing I wanted. I killed to get her made it as sorted as possible Girls apartment and all so she'd forget even his memory And after all the dough I paid you had to tell her I Didn't tell her I didn't even know who All right, you stand where you are with your hands in the air Oh Will you look at that They're lying on the same spot where madlock was killed Yeah The wages of sin Suspense presented by auto light the night star miss barbara stanwick The north wind does blow and we shall have snow and then what will old wilcox do He'll sit in his car and drive near and far in winter long comfort Will you well if you have your car tuned up and winterized by your neighborhood auto light spark plug dealer And remember auto light makes more than 400 products for cars trucks planes and boats in 28 plants coast to coast These include complete electrical systems used as original equipment on many of america's finest cars Generators coils distributors voltage regulators wire and cable starting motors and electric windshield wipers All engineered to work together perfectly as part of the auto light team All engineered to give you unexcelled auto light service Don't accept electrical parts supposed to be as good Ask for and insist on auto light original factory parts at your neighborhood service station car dealer garage or repair shop Remember you're always right with auto light next week on suspense. Mr. Richard widmark a star of too hot to live And in weeks to come you will hear such famous stars as Herbert marshal and william holden appearing in tales well calculated to keep you in suspense Tonight suspense play was produced and directed by elliot lewis with music composed by lucian mora wek and conducted by lud bluskin The wages of sin was written for suspense by e jack newman and john michael haze This stand week may currently be seen in the mgm picture to please a lady and remember next week on suspense Mr. Richard widmark in too hot to live You can buy world famous auto light resistor or standard spark plugs auto light stateful batteries auto light electrical parts at your neighborhood Auto light dealers switch to auto light. Good night Motorists be prepared to stop in time to save a child's life when driving through school zones Watch out for youngsters at play save a life by expecting the unexpected from children This is cbs the columbia broadcasting system


Thank you everyone for joining us. I'm Sam Sachs. I'm a cyber security policy fellow at New America and a senior fellow at Yale Law School's Paltide China Center. I am honored and delighted today to have Michael Schumann, author of the new book, Super Power Interrupted, who's going to talk with us about his book about the role of technology and national power, as well as his decades of experience researching, reporting and writing from Asia. Michael was a foreign correspondent with the Wall Street Journal and with Time and is now a contributor to the Atlantic as well as the writer for Bloomberg opinion. Thanks so much, Michael, for joining us. Thanks so much for having me. I really appreciate it. So I want to just read a short passage from the introduction to the book. Michael writes, the history of the world comes in strands, each leaving its own story. These strands occasionally bump into each other. Religions are spread technology shared goods exchanged, but to a great extent for much of history, the strands continued along their own course. So Michael, just to begin, can you tell us what inspired you to look into the Chinese strands of history? And why is this something that you think has been undercovered and what are some of the takeaways that you have from delving into that strand?  And, you know, the other parts of the world kind of float into that story when, you know, but generally you're taught a certain narrative of history and I think generally everybody learns history that way. I mean, in the US, you know, we call it Western Civ and you have this narrative that starts usually with ancient Greece and then Rome and then, you know, the development of Europe and the Reformation and the Enlightenment and the Age of Discovery and the American Revolution, and so on and so on. So, and I started thinking that basically I think other people in other societies learn history the same way but they learn an entirely different narrative of history. So people end up learning a history that leads to where they are and it's based on who they are. And that leaves us somewhat disconnected from other people's histories. So when you start thinking about China, you know, this is a society with a very, very long history and also a society that has its own stories. Yeah, its own heroes, its own villains, its own turning points and major battles and good things and bad things and good people and bad people. And this is the story that the Chinese know and this shapes the way that people in China see themselves, they see the world, how they interpret events, both historical events and current events, how they see the role in the world and where they're going in the world. And so I felt that if people in the US and elsewhere knew more about this kind of Chinese strand of world history or what I'm calling a Chinese history of the world, then what China is doing now where China is going, what Chinese ambitions are for themselves and for the country start to actually make a lot more sense. So bring us, make those links for us between your experience delving into the past and the Chinese strand of history and where we are now as we make sense of the Xi Jinping government and China's role in the world. Well, you know, I think one thing that is most remarkable about Chinese history is how often the political elite in China were able to rebuild Chinese power. You know, we, we, we learn Chinese history as a series of dynasties kind of like, you know, one took, one replaced another, you know, one after the like they were like tenants in the Forbidden City or something and one moved out and the others moved in. It wasn't really like that but what, you know, China went through long periods where they were civil wars and there wasn't politically united and there were periods of weakness and periods where China was invaded. But after all of the different calamities eventually the Chinese got together and built themselves into a great power again and for large sections of their history over the last 2000 plus years. The Chinese were a major, major regional power and major world power based on circumstances at the time. So, you know, we, when we talk about China today, we tend to talk about China all wrong, where we we talk about China as an emerging economy rising country as if this is of course something new. And, you know, in the current modern context the last, you know, 50 years, 100 years, yes it is. But when you put what's going on in China today, and what's happening with China's role in the world today in this longer historical narrative, it looks like another one of these periods where the Chinese after after, you know, a couple hundred years when things were, they weren't that strong they had lost kind of influence on on the world stage that they're again in the process of rebuilding their power. There's ways of kind of comparing the government today with you know the old imperial dynasties obviously this is the government today and not supposed to be a dynasty and there's no emperor at least at least officially, you know it's supposed to be a people's Republic. But when you look at the pattern of what's going on and also a lot about a lot of how this government actually behaves and acts on the world stage and its ambitions. It looks something like an old imperial restoration like the old Ming dynasty, the old Tang dynasty. So, and when you put it put it in that historical context, then you can really understand what China where China's going because you know we spent a lot of time, you know, in the West talking about well what is China want and the answer is somewhat, somewhat simple which is really trying to kind of wants what it always wants to reclaim its position in the world that it traditionally has had for long periods of time and I think based on the Chinese view actually the Chinese believe that they kind of have a right to have. As you write the period when China was demoted from its superpower status was a mere blip in the long line of in the long Chinese timeline a few pages and historical volumes that fill a library. And then you say they are striving to do that again in the 21st century will they succeed in a truly globalized world where one person can influence another on the far side of the globe with the tap of a smartphone screen. The answer will determine the course of everybody's strand of history. And I want to transition with that with the smartphone screen to talking about specifically the role of technology and national power. And one point that you've raised in the book is that we often think about China as a, or in the past we until recently we thought of China as a copycat nation the idea of China as an emerging economy. China was pulling from innovations, you know, elsewhere. And I think now we're, you know, that framework is dramatically shifted. But I think what what you're saying is it's not just recently that China moved away from this so called copycat nation. But in fact that China for large chunks of its history was very much at the forefront of technological innovation. And that China was a manufacturing powerhouse, a high tech exporter and innovation hub and an engine of the global economy, long before Marco Polo embarked on his famous journey. And I love the parts of the book where you talk about what were these sort of high tech exports from the past and going into silk and porcelain and paper. What are some of the things that you've taken away from looking at the role that technology played in China's history, and its role sort of on the global stage then. And any lessons that we can glean for the discussion of the role of technology today and global power. Well, it's interesting because we in the West tend to equate the formation of a kind of a truly global economy with when, you know, the Portuguese sound their way into the Indian Ocean. And you started getting these long distance connections between Europe and Asia, but there's more and more research being done that there was actually something of an international world economic system. It's been going on long, long before that going back 1000 years from now even even earlier than that. And China played a massive role in that international system, and was always a major player in global trade. And why is that a lot of it's because they made stuff that the world wanted and a lot of it. And for long periods of time the rest of the world didn't know how to make I mean porcelain as you mentioned is a great example and industry that the Chinese dominated that much of the rest of the world had basically had no idea how this product was made for centuries that you know, for for many centuries until other countries figured it out. So, this was a major driver of world trade people around the world wanted to get their hands on these Chinese products, and they would come from all over the world looking for looking for them and and trading for them. So, and China was also at this at this point that connected the overland routes through Central Asia the also what we call the old Silk Road, and also the maritime routes, stretching all the way from East Africa, and the Red Sea and the Persian Gulf across the Indian through to Southern China, and China was kind of a hinge point of these these two kind of trading systems. And it was really the role that China played as a technological leader that allowed them to do that that's why the world wanted to trade with China. And this of course is a big source of Chinese power, because if you have something that other people really want, then you have a little bit of leverage over them so you know people want to trade with you.  So, when you look at what at what's going on today. You know, with Xi Jinping, and I think he very well very much realizes this he realizes that yeah China's the second largest economy in the world, but to a to a great extent they're very heavily dependent on foreign technology. Things like, you know, chips, you know, Huawei sells a tremendous number of phones, but they but they run on on Android. They don't run on a Chinese operating system. Not that the Chinese can't develop these things. But, you know, the fact that that the United States is so still so dominant many aspects of technology to a certain extent leaves China in a little bit of a second class status on the international stage. So, a big part of Xi Jinping's economic policies is, is creating homegrown Chinese technologies and new cutting edge industries like, you know, AI electric vehicles that he hopes that China is going to be able to dominate in the future and and basically rebuild another one of these pillars of traditional Chinese power, which is a technological advantage. You know, it's interesting the terminology, you know, because your book is focused on restoring superpower status and that term has come up specifically around technology in authoritative Chinese writings on technology ambitions. The idea of building China into a quote unquote cyber superpower, one law Chianguo, and I've had debates with colleagues about how do you translate Chianguo is that a cyber strong nation is that a cyber superpower. You know, I, and I think we actually my colleagues and I at the Digi China project, New American Stanford had decided that superpower was probably the most accurate way to translate Chianguo and there's also a science and technology superpower and this is sort of part of the Xi Jinping thought on on cyberspace and what the objectives are. So one of the questions and I think this relates to technology but some of the broader themes and the book is when we think about what does the leadership of Xi Jinping want in this, you know, superpower status. Is this an idea is this something that you know the Trump administration refers to this is basically an existential threat to the United States. One of this is focused on technology in the ongoing conversation, you know, tick tock is an existential threat. You and I have had conversations about that Huawei that this sort of that's manifesting in these tech companies that have succeeded in making it outside of China's closed technology ecosystem. Do you see these ambitions as posing a it's an either or is this a you know the scholar, Jessica Chen why scholar Cornell has written that Xi Jinping's ambitions are not about overthrowing and revising the international order it's about creating an international order that is safe for autocracy where China can coexist along with democracies and other authoritarian governments, even if it is a sort of disgruntled power within that system. Or do you see this sort of in line with the Trump administration as an X you know these new ambitions, or these restored ambitions are an existential threat how do we make sense of what this means in the context of the US and the broader international order. Yeah, well you know it's hard to tell if the Trump administration sees companies like you mentioned like tick tock in Huawei. Are they national security threats, or are they technological threats to American dominance, and to a certain extent it in those those ideas are somewhat linked right because because when you think about it you know I think it's a real question is if China can, can China achieve the ambitions that Xi Jinping has set out without being a technological leader. I don't necessarily know the answer to that question, but you know when you look at at the US, which has been in quote relative decline I'm not a big decline this I don't necessarily believe in the inevitability of the end the end of the United States but like a lot of people do but it's, you know, even as the US has has declined and kind of relative size and the world economy. It has maintained it's a great degree of dominance because of the technological edge. And so can can China actually be the power that it wants to be without somehow claiming a certain amount of that edge for for China. And what happens if it can't does the economy stolen with the economy stalls. What happens to China's other ambitions. If China cannot be a technological power. Can it. How can it project its power globally and in the way they in the way that it wants to be if, if everybody in the world is still using iPhones and buying American chips and using American software. Does that mean China can still be a superpower. I don't I think the answer here that the Chinese would say would be no. And that's why they're in such a such a national drive to try to to not just catch up, but to catch up and at least in some industry surpass the US and Europe and get that technological edge back because I do think they see it critical for the expansion of their own power and the preservation of their of their system as well in on the world stage. And I think also that technology is in some ways, almost a backstop to the ways in which this is a zero sum game, one because of the integrated nature of global technology development but also if we think about some of the manifestations of this power, we see Chinese companies going abroad. If these companies are to be received and welcomes abroad, they cannot be perceived as being arms of the Chinese state and that's exactly what we're seeing. And I think that we can play out with TikTok and Huawei right that they have to be seen as separate and that's the very that's the problem, otherwise, the US government is going to take a swipe at them is what's happening. And in this way I think that sort of the Xi Jinping government is sort of at odds with itself and there are tensions between the economic and commercial ambitions and the national security ambitions. The security law the draft of it came out in early July the second chapter of the law specifically talks about the need to balance industrial development and security. And I think that that's a tension that's playing out and will continue to sort of play out as these as these issues unfold. So, yeah, go ahead. Oh yeah but but it's you know, it's interesting to do because to a certain extent Xi Jinping is working across purposes. You know, you mentioned earlier that this idea that he needs to develop China into a kind of a high tech power to kind of preserve his, you know, his system and carve out a space for it on on the world stage but to a certain extent what I think what we're finding is that this authoritarian system and the quest for technological influence are basically running counter to one another I mean that's the real lesson of what's going on with TikTok and Huawei right now is, you know, why are people so nervous about Huawei and TikTok. It's not because of the videos that kids that kids make and put on on the TikTok app and it's it's not really because of the immediately the equipment that Huawei makes. It's because the Chinese state is working in the background. It's not so much that we don't trust Huawei and we don't trust TikTok we don't trust China, and what China is going to how China is going to use this technology to promote their own authoritarian system and their own authoritarian interests. So Xi Jinping by intensifying state control in society as he has in China and using technology as a key way of intensifying state control over society. He is basically pulling the rug out from under companies like Huawei and TikTok who are trying to be global players. And I'm not sure he's at all aware that he's put that he's holding the rug and pulling it up from under them but that that basically so I, I think the big question for China is that can China promote its authoritarianism and promote the technologies at the same time. I don't know the answer to that question. Not everybody is going to ban Huawei. So the answer on a certain level, maybe yes but at the same time if you have the US and the UK and Australia and other major economies doing it. You're definitely curtailing China's mobile ambitions because of its authoritarianism. So another point that you write a theme throughout your, your Chinese world history tour is also the fact that China throughout different periods has oscillated between periods of openness and periods of closeness and xenophobia, which I think is something that this is a theme that's also playing out in US politics as well. Looking back at Chinese history, are what lessons sort of have you drawn from seeing where openness and close the effect that openness and closeness has played and in the book you assert that the Xi Jinping government appears to now be heading back into one of these periods of paranoia and xenophobia and closeness. At a time when I think the US government is also in that same period. What's what are the implications of that. You know, I think all societies go through this kind of, you know, periods of great openness and acceptance and periods of kind of paranoia and xenophobia and nativism I don't necessarily think that's China specific I think China has a somehow gained a reputation that has historically been an isolation society, which is, it's very much not true and I would, when you look back at how even that the Chinese themselves consider to be, you know, their most glittering periods of history, they tend to also be equated with the periods of the greatest openness. You know, when you look at, for example, the Tang Dynasty, which I think is considered the height of Chinese traditional civilization. It was also easily the period when China was most open. And you had a lot of a lot of non Chinese playing very, very important roles with within the, the Tong government, foreign fashions foreign products foreign food foreign dancers foreign whatever very very popular in, in the Tong period, especially the early time period. And, you know, when you look at then periods of closure I mean it's, I've been I've been making a very vague, you know, the connection in my mind with you know, when did, when did China start to lose its technological edge and, and start to lose, start to lose its, its, its power on the world stage. You could almost link it with when China became much more close, for example, you know, with, with the Ming dynasty, which was a period of greater isolation. This was really the period that saw the start, at least otherwise, you know, the rise of Europe. The Ming were aware that the Portuguese and others had better, had better military technology than they did, but they didn't really do a whole lot about it. Because they, they didn't, didn't take a whole, a whole lot of interest in what was happening with foreign people.  It took centuries for the for that to all play itself out.  And that's why he decided to open things up. So, you know, it, what I'm afraid of what you're seeing now is again, as you said that this government is kind of going back into one of these isolationist periods where it feels that it needs to do everything at home, including a technology, you know, Xi Jinping talks about technology self-sufficiency, which is kind of an almost an auto market kind of thinking that we have to do all this ourselves, which is very uneconomic. But so the, but you know, but this is still China is a big economy, but it's still a middle income economy. And the question is, can China get to where it wants to go? Can China really become, you know, one of the world's most advanced economies, if it's going to be a more isolated economy? You know, and getting back to what we were talking about in terms of technology, you know, if you can develop technologies, you can build your hallways and ticktocks, and you can make chips, but what if no one else in the world is buying it or using it? What kind of economic power then do you have if, you know, if you become basically an isolated technological island?  So, you know, China and the technology space has already somewhat been moving in that direction, and I don't see how that's positive for them over the long term. And I think we're seeing the strands of techno nationalism in the United States too. It's obviously very different forms. I mean, there's something, you know, it's not to say that, not to equate the two. There's something very different about a government that, you know, is able to read WeChat messages and round up dissidents. So not to equate cyber sovereignty in China with cyber sovereignty in the US. But something that I've argued is that if we go down the path of banning Chinese companies based on country of origin and this mistrust, that begins to, that's an assertion of state control over the way that people use the internet. At a moment when it's not just China and the US, but in Europe, in India, we're beginning to see rising state sovereignty and sovereign borders around cyber space and the digital economy. So this inward looking technology posture, I think, is certainly a trend that's rising around the world. I want to pivot and just talk a bit about, you know, you've been reporting and writing from Asia for over two decades and now is such an incredible period. You know, what has that experience been like and I know that you recently relocated from Beijing to Hong Kong. So from your vantage point, watching all of these stories play out, having been a real sort of seasoned Asia expat. What are some observations that you can share with us about what that experience has been like and what you're seeing now. Well, you know, it's interesting when we talk about history and views of history and how history plays itself out in the modern day. So what's going on here in Hong Kong is actually somewhat of an example of that because you're what you're looking at really is a clash of two historical narratives.  And, you know, the return of Hong Kong is a, you know, it's a homecoming of the Chinese people. That's kind of one version of history. But then there's this is other version of history, which is that, you know, once the British got got control of Hong Kong, it developed entirely differently. And it turned into its own society, separate from China, with its own its own ideas and its own values and its own sense of community and identity. And to a certain extent, its own history that doesn't match the history that Chinese likes to tell about Hong Kong. That's probably what you see playing out unfortunately on the streets right now. And where you have this, this clash of views over what Hong Kong is and what Hong Kong should be. And unfortunately, no, I live here in Hong Kong for previously for nine years, I'm a permanent resident here. I've experienced here with the city and there's a tragedy about it because you're kind of seeing, you know, because of the political power nature of what's going on. The Chinese are a certain extent in Beijing are basically forcing their version of history to play out on Hong Kong to the detriment of its own society and its own people. And so it's tragic. I know the world has condemned this and has tried to do something about it, but it's I think, I think the ball was rolling down the hill and I don't quite know where any way of stopping it at this point. So it's, it's, I mean, it's just one of the changes I said I've been out here for more than more than 20 years. You know, China itself is remarkably as you know, remarkably different place than it was when I first, my first time in Beijing with 1996. I remember there being hardly any cars on the road and wandering through the the forbidden city almost entirely by myself. Good luck doing that these days.  I think it is it's a way that the Chinese government has had its own shift in policy under Xi Jinping. And unfortunately what's been lost is this other absolutely amazing story about how quickly Chinese society has has changed how people's live lives have changed and sadly in all of this that's, it seems to have been lost on and actually on both sides. The Xi Jinping government could be taking a very different attitude towards the West when you talk about Hong Kong, you know, there's this there's this focus on what happened in the opium war, and you know the loss of Hong Kong and China's mistreatment at the hand of the West, which is still such a prominent theme in Chinese media and discourse. What you very rarely see in Chinese official media is the discussion of the amazing partnership that China has had with the United States over the last 40 years and how that has basically helped to make China what it is today. And that unfortunately isn't discussed so this is again when you get to use a history and how you view history. If the Chinese government chose to see history with this, the history that's relations with the West differently. The Chinese relations with the US might be very, very different right now. I just like for you in terms of researching Chinese history, you have some wonderful anecdotes and just jewels from over hundreds of years, how did you go about doing your research and did I, am I understanding right, are you a history major as an undergrad. My, I did study history as an undergrad but I studied Asian history, actually, or, or what, or what was called at my university, non Western history, which meant everything, everything but the US and Europe so I did all kind of things but I, well, you know, it's interesting when because I pitched this this book and I sold the idea and then I actually started writing it.  Because there's two immense complications with it one. And what does Chinese mean, right, because the Chinese, the way people identify themselves as Chinese today and what the word Chinese means today has nothing to do with how the people who lived in lived in the what is now China 500 years ago, identified themselves and thought about themselves, let alone 1000 or 2000 years ago so the first challenge was well what is Chinese. History was solved relatively easily because Chinese historians have a certain narrative of their own history so then you can kind of follow into the Chinese view. It's okay then to use the Chinese view of the course of their own history, the much harder one was what is a view of history because of course you know history is what you what you make of it. It's mostly being rewritten and reinterpreted and then re rewritten some more. So, you know, the way that people see historical events today is not necessarily how they saw them 500 years ago or at the time. So then you get into okay well what is a view. What I didn't want to do is I didn't want to write a Communist Party view of history, you know the Communist Party does a tremendous amount of just rewriting of history that's introduced a lot of distortions. That might have been helpful from something of a policy standpoint but it would have been horribly misleading from a reader's historical standpoint. So, what I decided to do is go through history and look at what Chinese writers were saying about themselves and the outside world and the events that were going on and their relations with the world and how they saw China in the world. As these events were as the events were actually happening. So to use basically a real ties real time is as you can get to some cases the sources aren't particularly contemporary but you do you do the best you can. But there's actually tremendous amount of contemporary writing as well and you know and not just histories, but poetry and philosophy and all kinds of other writing where you also get these get an idea of how the Chinese were viewing themselves in the world. So, what I did in the book if you there, almost all of the direct citations are Chinese writers. There's only a few foreigners that are quoted and quoted in there, including a Marco Polo that were put there for very very very specific reasons. Most of the time it's almost all the time. It is Chinese telling you what they thought about themselves in the outside world at that time period. And so that that's how I said I, I built a narrative on that and then from that you can actually get a real, a real historical look at the patterns of how the Chinese have seen themselves, what China's role traditionally was in the world. How the Chinese perceive that role and and, and then connecting that all the way to the current day. So I want to turn now to some of the questions from the audience, and please feel free for those of you joining us to submit questions in the chat feature. I should also say that in the chat we have a link if you to purchase the book so please be sure to check that out as well. This first, I'm going to combine two questions here. So from Anne Moisan better understanding the China history, understanding Chinese history, what foreign policy recommendations would you provide to the US and the West in dealing with China. And then a second question from Eugene Chang. If you had two minutes with President Trump, how would you advise him on the short term and long term US policy with respect to the PRC so taking this multi disciplinary historical perspective. What concretely would you recommend to leadership in the United States right now. You know, I think one, one main thing that the Trump administration has has wrong. I mean, I will say that, you know, I think that the Trump administration actually somewhat done the US a bit of a favor by kind of waking everybody up to the potential threat that China does pose and as an authoritarian state to the US as well as the rest of the world. But I, when he actually gets into actually policy and trying to do things that's when things kind of kind of go awry. I think there's too much emphasis on this idea that somehow you can stop China that if you decouple, or if you don't let Chinese companies list on US stock markets or you block their technology that somehow you can stop their rise where they are. I think that's unrealistic. I don't necessarily, I wouldn't necessarily assume that China will become the superpower that it intends at least not right now. You know, it's I don't, well, I kind of agree with Benjamin Franklin, you know, when he said there's nothing a certain except taxes and death and taxes so becoming a superpower is definitely not something that's certain. But I think this idea that somehow you could stop what's happening is is is a mistake. I think what you really have to think about more of is how to, on the one hand, allow China that the space that China feels that it needs and the role that China feels that it needs in the in the world. China wants to be a great power and is intent on it. I think there has to be a way to a certain extent of accommodating that at the same time without allowing China to kind of destroy the US system. And that would mean something that Trump is certainly not doing, which is strengthening US alliances, strengthening the institutions of the US war water. And using that as kind of a board against the rising the rise of a Chinese authoritarian state. And to a certain extent, a little bit like what happened during the Cold War but the circumstances are extremely different because of the integral the way China is integrated into the world economy makes it far more complicated but I think so that the Washington that they're thinking about this kind of the wrong way. Not just destroying the US system in terms of alliances but also openness and this gets back to the issue of sort of rising techno nationalism and xenophobia here. And I actually just this morning was having a conversation with my friend in Beijing and young at the FT and we were talking about, you know, what are the technological solutions for coexisting in a world of low trust. If we if we understand that China is going to be a player and that's not going to go away. You know, are there technological are there policy solutions that we can use to create more security, given that low trust environment. And I think that that is really imperative that we look at how to do that rather than destroy the openness of the US system in the process and Laura Rosenberger at the German Marshall Fund recently came out with a great piece in foreign affairs that said, look, there are ways to get at this but if we tear away at the openness of the US democratic system, we will lose that competition with authoritarianism around the world. Well, you know it to to extent I think what's what's a shame when you see what's going on. I mean, you know, when, when you go back to to the 90s of the thinking about the the internet and what the internet was going to do, which is, you know, bring everybody together and into one big big world, which to a great degree you know has happened I mean what makes what makes Twitter so fascinating is that you know you can have conversations with people and all over the world, who you would you would never otherwise meet probably or even have a chance of meeting and you can get their views you may not agree with them but you can get their views. You can see what they're interested in and and I think that's mean that's meaningful I think that's helpful in terms of building understanding I think what's what's a shame that what China has done with the great firewall that they basically taken them themselves out of that system. You have, you know, 1.4 billion people or at least however many of them don't have VPNs, you know, or go to school in the US, you know, who don't have access to that internet and they they aren't interacting on Facebook. They aren't interacting on Twitter, they aren't exchanging ideas with the rest of the world. And I'm not saying that the reason for what's happening right now but it sure doesn't help improve you know the Chinese feel on an official level that they're misunderstood and why is that well because they're not communicating with anybody. For sure and I think one thing that's missing also from the policy discussion on both sides is to sort of a willingness to call out problems on all sides and be clear eyed about about this and right now not having real viable diplomatic channels because engagement has been seen as a failure and actually I would love to hear your thoughts on that if you agree with the idea that engagement is a failure. And answer what is the best way to go about in this current environment but I want to get to another another audience question. How well does the CCP understand American history lessons learned and American values and motivations. Yeah, it's unfortunately very hard to know because the very senior people, you know, don't really chat a whole lot with people like me. I think there's some people who in the government and in academic circles who think they understand the US very very well. I don't necessarily think that they do. I was joking the other day that I think the Chinese leadership all should go and see Hamilton. You know, I think that there's an impression that the democratic values that the US talks about are just that talking points that they're ways of harassing the Chinese on certain issues. And the Chinese nationalists like to point out about how well the US isn't the most fair and democratic society either that's true. But I think what the Chinese don't understand is that a lot of these these ideals about democracy and representative government and free speech and free press and at least striving towards the equality of people even if we don't actually achieve it. The idea of having that ideal is immensely important to Americans and not just on a government level but on on a street to street house to house level and American take this stuff very seriously. And I don't I don't think that's fully appreciated in China at all. I think they I think that they they way would be very very well served by going and reading somebody about some of the American founders and helps the founding principles of the United States a little bit more. And I think that would give them much better appreciation of how the US works. Another question from Steven Shapiro. I was surprised to hear you say that China's history of is one of mostly openness to the world. That's a revelation against that. Can you discuss the concept of the Middle Kingdom, kowtow and the payment of tribute. Right. Well, those are all different things. In Chinese political philosophy. You know, the emperor wasn't just kind of a regular run the mill leader like everybody else right. The emperor was was the son of heaven who had kind of a divine sanction to rule and even more than that was was kind of the connection between the divine and man. So this gets into this idea well. How can the son of heaven be on equal status with all these other kings and chieftains of all these other people. And then on top of that you had this idea that goes very very far back in China in Chinese writing back 2500 years plus where the Chinese kind of defined their civilization as civilization. And we're following kind of Chinese culture and Chinese ways that you were there by definition uncivilized, and that China had some kind of a civilizing mission. Similar actually to the idea of American exceptionalism that I've been calling the US China conflict, a clash of exceptionalisms, you know, the US has this idea of being you know the city upon a hill that we're going to bring liberty and freedom to the world. The Chinese felt that that that it was their mission to basically bring civilization to barbarism. So this then this kind of ideology in the imperial system got filtered through into a system of foreign affairs that a lot of Western historians called the tribute system but it's the Chinese that never actually use that term and that term is actually highly controversial in the historian circles it's the kind of thing that you put a bunch of Chinese historians in a row they probably get into a fist fight over it so I don't use the word tribute system in in my book but what it did create is a view of the world where things were a hierarchy, and China was on top of the hierarchy, and in order to have diplomatic relations and trade relations with China, other people were accepted to expected to acknowledge that superiority. This is often translated in English is submit to but that's, that's gone out of fashion as a way of understanding it, but so you, but for most of Chinese history, you, you had the Chinese sold the world as an unequal place. And now, of course, you know this current government would say that they don't see the world that way but when when when you see how, especially the Xi Jinping government deals with its neighbors, when you see for example how like the built road works. You see you can catch glimpses of this whole system where where, you know the Chinese kind of see themselves on the top of a pyramid. And then this will be our last question. And then we'll close with you some closing comments Michael if you have any. This is an anonymous question which is do you think that Trump has an accurate or inaccurate view of the CCP. And it's an interesting question, particularly in light of your comments that you think the Trump administration has woken the world up to the reality of something that had been probably, you know, not as aware of before so is it an accurate perception that the CCP is operating based on. It's interesting, you know, I think the other thing that goes on to knowledge here I mean, we do we focus a lot on what's happened, the US-China relationship on what Trump has done, but actually I think the really key player is what Xi Jinping has done.  And in that way, he's created a China that's much more threatening that at least people proceed before. Maybe that would have happened anyway and we're holding him unfairly, I'm holding him unfairly responsible, but it certainly happened on his watch so in that sense where you I think Trump does have an accurate perception of the CCP and what the goals and aims of the Chinese Communist Party is which is basically expanding its power and expanding authoritarianism. I wouldn't necessarily say he has an understanding of China. When he and his other people in the White House talk about China, I feel that they're talking about China of about 1987. I don't think there's a full appreciation at how much richer and more, more, more of what China is now. And I think they feel that they feel that the US still has enough power to unilaterally kind of hold China back and that's very unrealistic at this stage and I think that's because there's administration doesn't really understand what one or China's like. Any closing comments. I think my my closing comment is is going to be you know it's it's watching what's happening with with the US and China. I feel like it's too it's too. It's too good to two countries talking past each other. And, you know, you, you mentioned how in the US versus feeling that engagement was a total failure and we have to do something else but it's I don't think the US has necessarily figured out what that is. And, you know, in China, I feel that there's, they've accelerated this drive for greater global influence. We're not totally aware of the consequences of what's what's happening and what that could mean for China down the road. I think I think what's unfortunate is that I, you know, neither of these countries are are best served in conflict with one another or an isolation from one other. So, however, this this plays out if you wanted to be a positive outcome. We have to get to a point where there's a much better understanding between the two countries on both sides, and where they're headed and what their goals and interests are and unfortunately, that's it seems we're moving in the opposite direction towards less engagement, less interaction. And that's that means probably heading in an increasingly negative direction. Well, I wanted to remind everyone that you can purchase a copy of superpower interrupted from the link in our chat box Michael thank you so much for taking the time I should also say Michael it is it is almost 1am in Hong Kong now so he has been up and late with us for the conversation and I'm kind of coherent at that so thank you so much. Thanks Sam in the conversation. Thank you Sam I appreciate it.