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Was it mostly gym or was it like the whole industry? That's where most of the loss came from. They were counting the whole entire industry but it mostly is the gyms that make up that number. Now, you want to know what's funny about that? First of all, that's not funny. It's crazy. That's terrible. Now, I'm going to be honest. I think you still would have had losses. I don't think they would have been nearly as big if they weren't forced. But here's what's crazy about that. Along with that was a doubling of the speed of increase of childhood obesity and obesity among adults. Fitness industry loses $20 billion and people get fatter, faster than ever before. Probably connect the rise and anxiety and depression too because that went through the roof. Correct.  Yeah, I think so. I think there's a direct connection there. Yeah, I definitely think there was obviously anxiety and depression around. I'm sure COVID caused a lot of that. I'm sure the loss of jobs or not able to go to work and socialized cause that too. But there's definitely a big piece of the not allowing people to exercise that has to play into that. We just did the episode on exercises effects on anxiety and depression according to peer reviewed clinical study, not just our experience and it's profound. It's as effective or maybe even more in the long term for mild to moderate anxiety and depression. So now imagine this, as medication. So now imagine this. You have prescription medication, which again studies show that exercise to be as effective for the mild to moderate forms of anxiety and depression. Imagine if we took away everyone's anxiety and depression medication during the whole period of time, then people for sure would say, of course there's a rise in anxiety and depression, but when you take away exercise, they don't make that connection. But it's a big one. Yeah. It's a really big one. Now, what do you guys think about like during a time like that where it's just lost 20 billion a company like, did you see what happened with mind body? Did you guys see which they just, okay. So mind body just acquired class pass, like a $500 million acquisition. I didn't know that was still around. Is that the one where you jump into different games? Yeah. I mean, they're comparing it to Facebook buying Instagram as far as how they work together. Right. So mind body is like the booking for studios and stuff like that. And then class pass is like the subscription service. So they're both software, but they both compliment each other. Oh, I see. And so it's just, the idea is that you can book classes and subscription all in one now by mind body purchasing class pass. Now, I wonder if, now they bought it during the pandemic. Yeah. They bought, I mean, they just acquired it, but they both, I mean, I don't know what class, that's a good, I get where you're going right now. I wonder if class pass was hurting. I don't, I don't know. Yeah. Like if they bought it on sale. Yeah. I wonder if it's a good time because we know, we have friends that are like industry leaders right in gym business and they're, they were doubling down during that period because obviously you're going to have reduced competition later on. Yeah. Last man standing. I mean, it's kind of one of those things. Like whatever gyms are left are going to be to go to gyms. Well, I mean, I talked to Brendan all time and they're still, he's still aggressively buying. That's what I mean. I wonder if it's a better time to buy because everything's so cheap. Well, I mean, there's, when there's blood on the street, right? Yeah. So, I mean, that's what, I imagine what this company is banking on, right? But I imagine what my body is banking on is the surge, right? That eventually, you know, Delta starts to slow down, hopefully things start to normalize a little bit. And then when that happens, we're going to see this massive, it's very similar to what everyone's saying is going to happen in the economy. I mean, there's this idea that is crazy of a, you know, we've been running for what, nine years now that we're still going to, we haven't even seen the crazy surge or the greed yet. So, you know, the theory is that this next year, if things start, if so long as things calm down with Delta, I mean, Delta getting worse or another variant coming, it could make, could change everything. But so long as things continue to improve and more people get vaccinated, the Delta variant starts to get, go down. It is on its way down. Yeah. So if it's on its way down, more people vaccinated, if we don't see another crazy variant that starts to scare everybody again, everybody is saying that we're going to see a massive surge in the economy. Well, before the Great Depression and before the 2008 crash, everything was on a super hot run. Remember, before the Great Depression was the roaring 20s. And before 2008, which we were all old enough to remember, everything was on fire. Things were crushing. Besides a small blip in 2001 after September 11th, it was this crazy run. So not to... Well, I mean, you did see an insane surge of equipment sales, and obviously that's because of just... It's still like that, by the way, too. Yeah. Like, I was curious if there's any statistics on that, just because, you know, even work with partners that are just, you know, they have to be killing it right now because everybody needs that at their house and they don't have access to a gym. I mean, it's just... Well, it's... It might be the same thing that's going on in the car industry where they might be a little handcuffed, too. Yeah. Like, as far as getting them... In terms of distribution... Yeah. ...getting it made. So it might be like the best-in-worst-case scenario at once, right?  Keep generating it. Dude, how frustrating would that be?  So that's why the used car market is exploded. My cousin bought a car and, like, four years ago, sold it, and he was used when he bought it, so... Or three years ago. Bought it, three years ago used, sold it recently for a little more than he bought it for, three years ago. Yeah. Because the people are... Well, I think, Justin, didn't you shop your... Yeah. You've been all your own? Yeah. Because we're thinking about maybe upgrading, and it was like, we could get... It was $5,000 more than what we actually paid for it initially. A year ago, right? It sounds like this is crazy. It's almost a no-brainer. That doesn't happen with cars. No. Cars always lose. This is all new, yes. Yeah, but the only downfall of that is... Now you're left without a car. Yeah, you sell that. Now it's hard for you to find a car. So part of the reason why you can get that much for it is because there's not like... You know, especially when you have a car like a nice Denali like that, there's not a lot of those running around for sale right now. Yeah. If you get this premium price for it, you sell it. Now you got to go find a car that you want to replace that, and good luck finding the car you want, especially if you think you're going to upgrade. People are going to start riding horses again. Yeah. That's just going to happen. Yeah. The watch market, same thing. It's crazy what's happening on that side. All the luxury watch market. Mm-hmm. I mean, I think... So I was reading this article. I wish I remembered the name. I'll have to look it up and circle back to you guys. But I sent it over to Doug this morning, and it talked about two brands. Of course, two of the brands that I didn't buy stock in. But do you guys remember? I don't know if you guys bought the stock I did. I bought stock. Oh, I remember that. Yeah. The luxury brand. That was a company that would deliver luxury. Yeah. They were just an online... And there's a lot of people moving in that market now. And the article talked about two of the leaders in the space, and neither the two were the one I bought stock in, unfortunately. So is the one you buy stock in, is it doing better? I haven't even gone on my thing to look at it since... I just read that article this morning, and I didn't get in my portfolio. Yeah, I know. I'll look. I'm sure it's not crazy, but I hope it's up a little bit. But it wasn't one of the two that I just read in the article that are booming. But it's... And it's crazy. What's cool is that... So the carers are trying to build more to make up the demand. Houses, they're trying to build more to make up the demand. But the luxury watches, like Rolex and Patek Philippin, so they won't make any more. They make a certain amount per year, and it doesn't matter where the economy's at, up or down, or people buying or more. It's like... They limit it always. That's they've done that with that brand forever, which is part of the reason why it holds its value so much right now. Did you know debt with diamonds? They do that with diamonds. They've done that for years. There's a few people that own the diamond mines, and they restrict the production of diamonds on purpose to keep the prices high on those. Yeah. At least that's what I've read. But yeah, pretty well. Yeah. Speaking of cars, I gave my car to my dad over the weekend. Oh, wow.  I'll tell you what, dude. Making Justin and I look bad. I know. Well, you know what? Hopefully my mom doesn't hear this. Yeah.  Sal got his dad a car. I paid for his movie ticket. I did that recently. Only kids that love their parents do that. I don't know. Yeah. No, you know what it is, is that as a kid, I remember daydreaming about this, where one day, except my parents, you guys know the story, right? My parents were poor immigrants. My dad, he didn't even go to school. I think he went to third grade or second grade, because he was so poor. Worked seven days a week for as long as I can remember as a kid. Always was at dinner with the family. Always made time for us. My mom working hard. When I was a kid, she would split napkins in half to save money, and going out to dinner was McDonald's. That was a big deal when I was real little. But they were able to provide a middle-class life for themselves and their four kids through just being this way. And I remember as a kid thinking, like daydream, like, oh man, one day, I hope I could do something nice for my parents, just to do something for them. So anyway, I did that, gave it to my dad, and he was so happy and so proud. And he says, you know, this was, you know, I came to this country to give you guys a better opportunity. And now that you guys, you know, and he's referring to me and my siblings, because my sister's done similar stuff, right, and my other brother too. And he goes, now I feel exactly I'm so proud that my kids do this for me. All of them, right? Every one of you guys have done really well, right? Pretty well.  My youngest sister, she got with Zoom early on. And so she had stock in it. My brother's an investment baker. And he does really well. He does a good job of it.  And but it was so nice to hear my mom starts crying, you know, she's talking about how, because my mom came here when she was four and her dad, she was telling the story to Jessica about her. My her dad came here. It was even worse for him because it was even before my dad came here. He would work as a custodian and would work two or three times during the day and would wake up my mom and her brother at four o'clock in the morning on Mondays before school to come with them to help them clean movie theaters. And then he would drop them off at school afterwards. And she's like crying and talking about all this and how proud they are. And it makes you feel really good. That's cool. That's awesome. Did you do like a whole Oprah reveal with it? Did you get him like in the... Like, OK, can you drive my car back for me? Oh, by the way, it's yours now. I'm not good at that.   But it was really happy. And by the way, I'll tell you what. Just so you guys can get an idea. My dad, the car that he currently drives has 240,000 miles on it. Now, it runs great because he takes care of that car like it's a child. Like every little thing is taken care of. How many years has he had it? I came and you know what year it is? Uh, I don't I don't I don't know. He's that for a long time, obviously. He's got two cars. One's 240,000 miles. There's 220,000 miles and he takes care of them.  When you had that Jetta till what just last year, wasn't it? It's still good to do music video. That's hey, that's always my dad. Why do you get rid of it? It's still good. That's always what he says. It's pretty funny. Why are you a sweetheart? You were a sweetheart while we were up in truckie the whole time, too. A little nice guy. You must be feeling all soft and fuzzy. Was that was that really? Yeah. You mean it's you mean it's our little organized drinks every night, came out after dinner and like frothed up the milk for us and said it gave each one of us. I thought that was really sweet of you, you know. Trying to get you guys very homely. No, I come on.  No, but would you guys think of the the the organized gold juice and that by the way? Oh, yeah. No, I love that, dude. Yes, you've been drinking very consistently. I sleep better. Yeah, I sleep way better. I just forget to do that. So it's nice, you know, like it's one of those things. I wish I was like more regular about doing that because it just totally calms you down and gets you ready, you know, for the end of the night. Yeah. So what I do with Jessica is sometimes in the morning I'll make her because she drinks coffee black, but sometimes you'll have an additional coffee later. So I did it with coffee, almond milk and the Organified Pumpkin Spies. Oh, incredible. Really? Really good. Yes. So coffee, almond milk. And then so it's like a Starbucks drink. Yes. Exactly. Yeah. And she loved it. And then because of the gold juice is relaxing with the caffeine. She said she felt really like really calm and energized at the same time. I'll have to try. So what do you what do you put the organic?  How did you do that? I first warm up the almond milk so I get that hot. Yeah. And then I add the the gold juice and they used a little frother thing. Yeah. Then I pour the coffee and mix it. And then there you go. And it's all set up. Yes, really. And if you put it on ice, it's amazing too. So if you could do it that way and then you can put it on ice, it's super good. I'll have to try that. Anyway, I was doing my story the other day. I was going to tell you guys like somebody asked me about like when I first learned how to use a kettlebell and like when that happened and I was like reflecting back. And I did do like a workshop in San Jose and it was kind of led by the RKC. Oh, you did the povel? Yeah. So so here's the kind of funny part is I was in Gold's gym.  And so I was kind of one of the first trainers to bring in the kettlebell. And so I was in there and just kind of practicing and whatnot. And it was I was just like doing my thing. I was like trying to work on the skills that I had worked on in the workshop and swinging. And it was like I compared to this, like say you're dribbling or you're working on drills or whatever. And all of a sudden, like Michael Jordan walks right behind you. Whoa. Yeah. So it was like, Pavel was right behind me when I was like working on my... Wait, Pavel, Pavel? Pavel. Yeah. Really? At Gold's? At Gold's. He was at Gold's. He was in town. I had no idea. I never told this story before. I know. I just... I wonder how many...  I mean, I'm aware of some telling the story right now. It's terrible. How did you not tell the story? I've known you for seven years. We've done thousands of hours of podcasting. And that's your... And that's your... You forgot it? All the kettlebells? I'm saving it for this moment, guys. It wasn't relevant.  You've known Adam for half your life. There's a lot, dude. You just compared it to Michael Jordan. Like that'd be like me talking about like, I was playing hoop at the... Hey, maybe you guys should ask me more questions. Oh, I forgot to tell you. Michael Jordan was there playing with me. To say, I'm just, you know, I'm all coming out with him now. Hey, if it was me, I would have told you 15 times by now. If it was a story, I would have reviewed it all. Anyway, I want to hear about this. What happened? Well, I was like... This is really insecure. It was up Bernel. The Bernel one. Oh, wow. Yeah, so he was in town for some... I don't know, event, I think. And so I... I was like too embarrassed to talk to him, dude, because it was like... And he totally was like watching me and looking at me over and... Because I was the only guy in there with kettlebells. And so I kind of looked at him and was like, hey, and then I walked away real quick. I was just like super embarrassed. Which sucks, because I should have just talked to him and been like, hey, man, I'm just learning. And I love these. And it was like a long... How many years? I was like over 12 years or something. Yeah.  Yeah, I wish I could talk to him. So that's probably why I didn't bring it up, because it was like... I guess that makes sense. It's kind of embarrassing. Well, I mean, you have really good form and technique with kettlebells. Were you good then or was that... No, I was terrible. That's why I was like... He must have just been looking at me like, oh, god. I hope he didn't go through my certification. He should get certified. He must have been on the competitor workshop. I remember when that all hit the scene, it went from nothing to all of a sudden you saw them all over the place. But I remember when it hit the scene, it was like nobody had ever seen them before.  How do they work? So this must have been more than 12 years ago, right? I was about right, because you were at the goal as you left me by that time, which we go back 15 years, and so I would say 12 or 13. Yeah, that was an expensive certification. That was 1,500 bucks. That's why I never did it. I remember I wanted to do it. I was a manager already, which it didn't benefit me to get any more. You got yoga certified instead. That's a different story. That's true. He did. I had this idea. I had a gymnastics certification. I had this idea when I was running boot camps.  That's a picture of you doing yoga right now. Well, the reason why is my favorite right now. I started to, I quickly recognized my demographic that I was attracting. So I attracted a lot of soccer moms, you know, middle-aged women that were wanting to stay in shape. You know, they weren't looking to compete or do anything crazy. They didn't need to lose tons of weight. They just wanted to stay fit. And as a wheelhouse. Yeah, and so I thought, you know, and they loved the boot camp class. I thought, man, a good half of these women would pay for me to come to their house with my little basket and my little mat and then take them through a private session. Oh, my God! I went and did the certification. Made so much sense, though. I don't remember what happened business-wise. Something, like, that business, I was, like, kind of moving on from it.  And I was already on. I think it was during the transition of the marijuana time. It reminds me of, what was that moot? Was it couples retreat where the dude comes out and he's wearing a spear? Totally. He's doing the stretches. The downward dog. So I would transfer you my energy. I would use my karma on you. It was also right when I was starting to get with Katrina, and so I think this bit of, like, guilt was singing. When I was single, it was, like, a brilliant idea. I was like, oh, hell, yeah, I'll go do that. Fishing a bear over here.  They went a light about it. How was your yoga today? Oh, it was great. She taught us good stuff today. What's her name? So that's actually, it was probably, maybe the combination of transitioning to another business that was probably doing even more, making more money for me and then also probably starting to date and get serious with Katrina. I probably thought, yeah, this is probably not the best. Wow. I toyed with the idea of doing Chinese medicine certification, but I never actually went through it. Oh, really? No, because it's, like, seven years long. Oh, is it really that long? Yeah, dude. Oh, I didn't know that. That's intense. I'm like, maybe I'll do, like, a year and learn or whatever. That's what it's called. Really good school for acupuncture Chinese medicine. And it's like, it's a legit, like, it's a big deal. So I looked through it and I've been interested. I can't do anything for that one. That's how I feel about, I mean, I talked about this, so I'm sure, and I get DMs all the time and people ask me, hey, did you get your real estate license? I'm like, fuck, no, I didn't. But let me tell you, I was definitely cocky about that. I was like, oh, yeah, we could build this company and do this and do that and on the side, I'll get my real estate license, like, little that I know, like, it's like learning the law. So it was just intense. So many regulations. Oh, yeah, it was so intense. And I still was kind of pushing through and trying to chip away as much as I could. But, you know, I got to a point where, like, obviously the things that we do here are far more important. And that isn't going to benefit me that much financially. Like, there's not, there's nothing that being, having our, my real estate license right now would benefit us financially, really. It would be nice to have maybe a cool fallback plan. And also, to your credit, you dive really deep into stuff you're into and you're constantly researching and reading and you've partnered with people who, I mean, people don't know this, but Adam is mostly responsible for our side investments. He manages all that. And I mean, you're obviously very good at it.  Well, that was kind of fine people to team up with it. Yes. Well, and that was kind of what made me want, I was like, okay, it's not going to accelerate that any more for us. And it was like the amount of time that it would take for me to do that and what it would take me. Better spent doing other stuff. I mean, I definitely, anybody that has it, man, I have a lot more respect. I actually, honestly, I didn't think it was that big of a deal. I really thought it was going to be like, I mean, it reminded me of, like, probably one of the hardest certifications that I did was the corrective exercise specialist. Like, that one was... I did that one. Yeah, that was pretty extensive. You know, I did that one and never took the test. Oh, really? Yeah, I did all the course and everything and then I went and opened up my own studio and when you own your own business, it doesn't matter. You don't, you make the same amount. When you work for a gym, you pay you more. Dude, I've done that so many times. I just go through the course and I don't care. Well, for me, it's about the knowledge. But it was really, I mean, the NESCES is legit. Yeah. It is really in depth. Oh, it was the hardest test that I actually had to take. And it was probably one of the last ones because, like, you guys, I did the same thing. Once you got into the management role, I didn't get paid anymore. So I've probably been through 30 certifications or so. I had eight. So I only actually took, like, eight tests because once you get to a point where I didn't get any money from it, it was like, okay, why pay... I had the connection so as a manager, they would always give me, let me in the classes for free. Kind of like what we even get here, right? So all the courses that have come through here, I didn't get in for free. But I actually don't pay to get the certification because I don't really care. I know what course I took once. That was really weird. That was really hard for me. I got a Series 6 in a 63 license. This is when I did... I was a premier banker for a second. I imagine that's a lot of, like, law and regulations and stuff, right? Now, it's not a Series 7, which is another level, right? But Series 6 and 63, for someone who had no experience whatsoever, it was like learning Chinese. Well, that's what the real estate one was like for me. It's a new language. And that's what it reminded me of the corrective exercise specialist stuff, was I needed to dedicate... I think I got the glossary or index cards, and I think I want to say there was 800 terms and definitions that I needed to memorize and learn that were all unfamiliar. So it's not like I had some sort of a background. I mean, all of us have an anatomy and physiology background, but the hardest national certs aren't that bad because you have some sort of a foundational base there, right? But with real estate, like, the terms were, like, almost all foreign. Oh, that's what it was like. The way that I studied for it, and this is sometimes with tests that aren't good, is that you could study for the test, which is essentially what I did. And I had all these courses that would teach you how to take the test, and I would memorize things and do it over and over again. But ask me about that stuff now.  I know. It was like when I was going for my astrology degree.  What? I was like, what? Another story is getting... I was just really...  Just like an Aquarius. Total Aquarius moment right there. Anyway, I wanted to tell you guys that over the weekend, or actually over the weekend, over the week, last week, the sculpted vegan, do you guys know what this is? Oh, you told us that you were doing that. How was that? Her name is Kim Constable, and she's based out of Ireland. You did that while we were up in Truckee, didn't you? I did. So she's based out of Ireland. She's a vegan fitness expert, but I love her because the way she presents her information, she's not like this dogmatic, zealot, very open. She's totally our flavor, right? She's like, she could be brash and really cares about the people she works with. Anyway, I had a great conversation with her. She looks amazing, of course, fit the whole deal, but she's got a great presentation. Her podcast is doing well. I loved hearing about her success. Where's she based out of again, would you say? Ireland. Oh, wow. Yeah. And she does a great job. How did you get linked up? How did that even happen? So, Michaela Peterson, obviously who knows us, is good friends with her. Now, here's what's funny about that. Michaela Peterson's carnivore diet. You know, that just shows you how, that's why we like them. They're not dogmatic about it. It's like, yes, they follow that diet, but that doesn't mean that I don't understand why you would follow the opposite. But I had a great conversation with her. I'm going to be on her podcast, which will probably air in a week or two. And she was energetic and everything. She's just great. Great personality.  I get what you're trying to say. Actually, speaking of which, speaking of which, there was a study that came out that showed that women who eat animal protein have more muscle mass than women who don't. So this big study where they were looking at and doing lots of controls and stuff. And eating animal protein is associated with more muscle mass in women according to this particular study. Well, I mean, based off our experience, I would guess that's obvious because most of them under eat it. I mean, that was the most common thing that I noticed with all my female clients is, rarely ever did I get a female client assess the diet and go, hey, your protein, it takes fine. Almost every single one of them I had to say. And it's easier to get with animal. Well, it's easier to get and it's a better source. You've already talked about this before. And that's where that really matters. If you're under eating protein, the quality is even more important. Yes. So I imagine that's why that study would point to that. Yes. And I got in this huge, actually, this huge, because it was posted in a group that I follow on Facebook. And there's, because I follow, you guys know I follow these groups. And this is how I filter my studies. It's really cool. They do the work for me, basically. But I went on there and I commented. And it was a neuroscience group, believe it or not. And the reason why that one was posted was there was another study that showed that depression and anxiety was correlated with a vegan diet as well. So it got into this huge debate. And nobody in there is really a fitness or nutrition expert. A lot of them are kind of, you know, neuroscience students or scientists. And I said, well, I said this is likely due to the fact that it just requires more planning when you're a vegan because it's easier to hit nutrient deficiencies. You can't just wing it. No, like if you just ate meat, you would get most essential nutrients. By the way, this is not ideal. There's a difference between ideal and essential. Essential just means you're not going to die of a nutrient deficiency. Beef alone provides you with pretty much every single essential nutrient that you need. There is no vegetable source of anything that does that. Now that doesn't mean you can't eat a vegan diet and be healthy and fit. And of course you can. It just requires a little bit more planning. And so I wrote that in there. Oh my gosh, the fire.  And I'm like, I'm not comparing it to the standard American diet. Like anything's better than that. And I was trying to explain. That's a whole other monster. I was trying to explain, but it's these people were just, and I said, listen, here's the deal. You can be very healthy with a vegan diet, but you do have to pay more attention to making sure you get all of your essential nutrients because you're not going to get them from one source. You have to get them from multiple sources. And you just have to be a little bit more planned. If you're just a vegan and you just avoid animal sources of food and then you don't pay attention to anything else, your chances of nutrient efficiency are higher. That's just a fact. But that doesn't necessarily again mean it's bad.  But yeah, so the protein one was pretty interesting with all of that. Hey, I wanted to ask you what's going on with the resistance training revolution? I haven't got an update on that in a while.  I did. How's it going? So the last update I got was from June.  Well, that's July. So I should be getting another update soon. Is it every quarter? Is that what it is? I think so. And I can request more loose updates. But as of June, and I forgot when we launched it. Do you remember the month? April. Oh, so April, May. I think it's every six months you get a report. Okay. So we launched it in within three months, I guess, then. That's three, Doug. No. Well, yeah, because you launched in April, but I think it's a semi-annual report. Oh, I see. That's why we haven't received one for this third quarter. So we'll get another one at the end of the year. Yes, I believe so. Okay, okay. So... Damn, that's not very often getting updated on it. I think, no, I can actually request, and then they'll tell me, like, through email. Yeah, because I'd like to know. This is a full report. Because the report you have right now is literally the 50 per... Broken down. Yeah, but you're at the halfway point, that report. You've done double the time.  Yeah, so... Hopefully, we've done more than that. Maybe three months, almost 15,000 units, which I guess... I don't know if that's great or bad in Book World, but they seem to be pretty... I have no idea. I don't know what to compare it to. Book World. Welcome. That's like my fantasy plan. Could you do the reading rainbow? The more you know thing right there? Book World. Reading rainbow. This room is fun. It's reading time. Book World. No. So 15,000 units in a few months, they're pretty pleased, I guess. They said it's very consistent. So consistent sales, every... Do you check reviews and stuff like that? Yeah, they're overwhelmingly good. And part of me is like, oh, that's great, and then the other part of me knows how amazing our fans are. And I feel like our fans will go there and I could literally write anything and they'd say, you know, which is cool, but also, I don't know. And I'm also a little self-critical, so I don't know. It's a rising revolution. But we'll see what happens. I guess that's all right. They were saying it was pretty good, but like I said, I don't know. I think that's pretty good. I mean, you know who'd be a person to ask is Mike to see, because he's done several books now in our space. Mike is...  What? Yeah. I've never heard you say that about Mike. Yes, he can. No, Mike is a shrewd businessman. That's why I love him. I don't mean this in an... Emma and I do this like... I love Mike. As a boy, that's what you have to do. You have to calm out. I love Mike. 100%, one of my favorite people. And some of the people I love the most can also be dicks.  You know, you made a real good try. Yeah. Not bad. It's your first book. You've never written anything. If you're comparing it to people that fail, you're doing really good. I mean, that was number one for like 10 years of my first books. Exactly. Well, he's sold like a million or something crazy. He's really good at what he does, dude. I could never match his level of... And the guy sits in there and just crushes and writes great content. Well, he's an online marketer first fitness guy second. Yeah. Right? I mean, that's one of the things that was fascinating when we first met him was... But I was always... I was really impressed with his fitness knowledge with his little experience in the fitness space. That just goes to show you how intelligent the man is. Yeah, yeah, he's smart. He's an extremely intelligent guy. Yeah. So probably one of the smartest people I've ever met. Yeah. Anyway, speaking of smart people, did you read that quote from Demi Lovato? I did. I did not. Tell me. Oh, man. She said we should stop referring to... Aliens. Extraterrestrials. Well, you want to... She wants you to call them extraterrestrials, not aliens, because that's offensive. Yeah. Really? Aliens is offensive. So when we're talking about... Hey, hold up. When we're talking about space visitors from other planets, we should not refer to them as aliens because that's an offensive term. Right. This is literally from her mouth. Oh, my God. Yeah. I don't... That's important, though. Yeah, it's like... Well, is that stimming from there's this rumor going that we might find that... If we do find life somewhere else, there's a possibility that could be a human species? That's what... Where did you read this? Somebody... Look at you guys all excited. What? Yeah, somebody tagged me on a post and somebody had like this kind of like, you know, real, I don't know, dark, goth looking like human-esque person. Oh, that's from... What's that movie? Mothman? No, dude. What's that movie? It was from Alien. It was like another... Prometheus? Yes. Remember how the story was that he looked like humanoid? Yeah, yeah. I saw that. That's the picture. Oh, okay. Yeah, I got tagged on it like yesterday. And so I thought maybe that was a connection there. So maybe there's this rumor now that we might find humans and so she's being proactive to be like, listen, we should stop calling them aliens and be a little more politically correct about them. Listen, Demi Lovato, if aliens come here, they're not gonna read it, you know, social media and be like, this girl's gonna be our leader. We're gonna put her in charge of the world. I don't know, dude. She said this cool thing about us. I don't know, bro. Trump was president. She says all the right things. You know what I'm saying? Bro. I guarantee when you were watching The Apprentice 10 years ago, you would have never guessed that dude would be your brother. What if you're dating a girl like that? She just starts saying crazy things like that. Who was she with? Who was she with?  Girlfriend. I know she's like non... She's all the non stuff. Non binary, non... Well, she was dating a guy last. Wasn't she? Is she as human? Yeah. You know what I'm saying? Maybe not. I have no idea. Oh, really? The voice just... Look it up, Doug. You follow people and stuff like that. Oh, I sure do. Yeah. You're big into that stuff. Who is... Demi Lovato dated or whatever. Who did she date? I am bi-robotic. Well, speaking of that, you know, Elon, how he broke up with Grimes or whatever. Yeah. Like people... She's apparently saying she's getting harassed now by a bunch of people.   I mean, a couple weeks ago, I was in the Beatles, Bezos all the time. Dude, he's so great. Dude, did you see that tweet? Yes. Or he put the little silver... The second place?  I like him more now. I do too. It's funny. I do too. And you're weak sausage. You don't like him because of that. People don't find that funny. That is funny, man. Yeah. Did you guys see the clip of Joe Rogan's podcast where he had Sanjay Gupta on from CNN? Oh, I didn't see that. No. He railed him. There was a period... Joe did? There was a portion there. So remember how CNN... Oh. How CNN, which like all these news... Did he roast them for the whole horse team? Yes. So all these news networks are just propaganda machines. If you don't see that, then, you know, take off your blindfold. I'm so mad I missed that. So CNN... When Joe Rogan got COVID, he took Ivermectin, which was prescribed from his doctor. Yeah, we all know this. He did the monocleal... Yeah, we've already talked about it.  So CNN said... And there were clips. And he played it during the podcast to show Sanjay. You know, he's like... They're laughing at Joe Rogan, taking a horse-deep warmer, and it's so dangerous. And Rogan's like, you guys flat-out lied. You lied. He goes, it was prescribed to me. It's human medicine. It's been used by billions of people. And he goes, how do you feel working for a network that lies like that? And Sanjay would skirt it and move around, and he kept pinning them. No, no, no. How do you feel about that? How do you feel? And finally Sanjay said, well, I don't know, they probably shouldn't have said that Sanjay went back on CNN and kind of, you know, went against Rogan again.  So cowardly, dude.  It's just the misinformation machine after it, man. Yes, dude. And anyway, I love the fact that he had him on a show and he pinned him. And then he tried to deny it and then he showed him the clip of them, you know, like lying with glee is essentially what he said. Nobody cares that he got better. Right? Isn't that like an important fact? Yeah, I know. I mean, I'm curious about that. I mean, it's hard to say though, right?  So he's, I mean, to say it was from the Ivermectin, I think that's hard to say. He also did monocleal. Yeah, he did a... Bat, which is proven. He did everything, you know? Yeah. He did like the whole full protocol. Plus... This is my irritation though, too.  And the first thing they call everybody else, they don't find out if they're doing okay. You know what I'm saying? Oh, like, it's this, this pandemonium of like, who they were with and all this before they even find out if they're doing okay. Well, that's how, when Chappelle did that whole thing, when he opened, when he opened up, the very beginning where he's like, I felt dirty. Yeah. Yeah, dude. Because that's why, you know what I'm saying? Because everybody's like, oh my God, did you see Adam last week? Because he had, you know, I'll start calling everybody else. Who else did you see? Like at STDs, everybody tried to track it back. I was on the phone with him. You better get tested. Yeah. Hey, did you guys see the investment infusion that Viori got? Yes, I did. Oh my God. I'm so happy. No, $100 million. No, no, $4 billion valuation. Valuation, yes. $4 billion. Yeah, soft bank. Soft bank dropped $400 million on him. $4 billion valuation. Dude, this is massive. Yeah. We missed investing in them by about 18 months. So check this out. So Jim, so this is a Yahoo article, right? It says, Viori sets aggressive expansion after $400 million investment. And then in the beginning, it says when Jim Gold, the former chief of Neiman Marcus, predicted two years ago that Viori could be a $1 billion brand, a lot of eyes rolled, not anymore. That's insane. It's a $4 billion value-weighted company. We've been working with them now. How long? Four years. I think when we started with them, they were like $150 million or $200 million valuation. Yeah, they were $100 million valuation. That's insane, Chris. No, we'd all be rich if we would have been in a different situation like that. We didn't quite have the capital back then. That was four years ago. So no, it's awesome to see. I mean, I love Joe. I mean, but we, the first when we started, you could tell that the quality, they were going to come after Lulu. I knew they're going to come after that market share. And Lulu just didn't do as good of a job with men as Viori was. I think it was brilliant. They literally did the e-commerce thing. So they didn't go way overhead with the brick and mortar. They went after the underserved portion of the market in athleisure wear, the men, because everyone was going after women early on. Of course, good quality and style. That's right. First one to really offer it to men. And then they went backdoor the women's side of the business and they crushed on that also, just the opposite of what Lulu did. I think it was brilliant the way they did that. And it's going to be really interesting to see how fast they scale. Has either one of you been to Santana Roy? No, since then. Oh, you have? Yes, I have. Yeah, is it busy? Oh, yeah. Yeah, it's a great store. It's a beautiful store. People are always in there. What we're literally talking about is going to be a mainstream American brand here very soon. Oh, yeah. Very, very soon. If not already, people already know. A lot of people already know them now. Yeah. But it's great to see that. It's nice to see that kind of growth, especially because we know the people who started it personally. Yeah, I feel like I ate a little bit of crow on the Gymshark way back when.  And I think they're worth even more. Doug, look up Gymshark valuation right now. I think that kid blew that thing up. You know what it is. It was like 25 too. It's because they used all the fitness influencer. No, he did. And that just annoys them. It just annoys them. I think that's why. I catapulted them, but yeah. Yeah, that was allowing my emotions to come in there. I'm saying it should have been more logical about it where it was going, but I was just like, dirty.  Because that's really what it was.  He was one of the first to do it on Instagram before. I mean, now everybody does that. Yeah. But when you're the first. I mean, you wouldn't be able to do it and not have good quality stuff though. The people that I know that wear it, they like it and they talk about it. They like it. It's nice, but I'm not that big of a fan. Yeah, 1.3 billion, but this is a year old. Oh, so Viori passed them. The years passed. I know. I don't feel so bad again. You're giving a problem. I bet on the right horse. I thought they were higher.  That's impressive. That's crazy. Yeah. And it's a young kid. So kudos to you. But you know, Viori was the better horse. You know what I'm saying? So because I remember when I was debating Danny about it, like four years ago, when we were first starting to work with Viori and he was like, oh, Jim Shark this, oh, Jim Shark this.  I don't want none of the data. And then I was kept telling them what Viori. I said, you watch, you'll see what happens. Viori will be, but I actually didn't know that. I thought they were still crushing. Yeah. Still crushing. That's awesome. And actually made to improve gut health. I'm not making this up. No joke. It's healthy soda. And it's in the flavors that you enjoyed as a child.  All right. Enjoy the rest of the show. First question is from Elena JB. Does fasted cardio really make a difference? I like this question. Yeah. Okay. So for fat loss, no, it doesn't make a difference. But now studies will show that when you do fasted cardio, that you utilize more fat for fuel while you do the cardio. And so when people saw that, they thought, oh, this is going to burn more body fat. It doesn't because at the end of the day, literally, what matters is the calorie deficit. And they've done lots of studies now on this.  And some studies show that fed cardio, your performance is a little bit better. So I can even make the argument that in some cases, fed cardio is probably better. Now here's where fasted cardio might make a difference. You might get better at doing fasted cardio. So if you're wanting to improve your ability to perform while being in a fasted state, this might help you. But no, aside from that, there's no additional benefit. It's a personal preference thing. It's not just that. I'll add more benefit to it. So I like this question a lot because this is actually how I found Lane Norton like eight, nine years ago. So right when I was starting to get in shape after I'd fallen out of shape, I was kind of looking for resources that I thought in the space that were really good came across this guy, Lane Norton, who I had no idea, who kind of specialized in competitors and people getting in competitive shape.  And I was drawn into it because it was something that I utilized and I was doing already and made complete sense. And he does. And Lane's a great resource for this. So somebody who's watching and wants to hear more of the science and as far as what's happening in the body to prove your point that you're talking about, he's great for that. Now that being said, even knowing that, I continued that. And the reason why I continued it was I had tremendous results from it. Not because there was something that was happening that was so special that because I was fasted was that never ever did I get up at six o'clock in the morning to do any sort of movement. In fact, if I was not getting up and doing my fasted cardio, I would sleep in. I would sleep in till seven in the morning, shower, have breakfast, do my normal routine, train at noon or one like I always do. And that was my routine. I began to do fasted cardio where I got up an extra hour early, go to the gym, walk, wouldn't run or do anything crazy. Just walk for one hour and then go about my day, get my training session at 12-1, had tremendous success from it. Behaviorally wise, you saw improvements. Yes. And I think that's the part that you still have to factor that in. Of course. And that, by the way, that's why the bro science continues and why you still see all these competitors do it. Now, they try and, you know. They don't know that's why it works. Yeah, right. I don't think they realize.  Yeah, so I think they don't realize that. But the, this was the only time that I would get up an hour before I would ever go to bed was when I was disciplining myself to do this fasted cardio. Not to mention, normally my routine is get up and then have a breakfast. First thing I would do is have breakfast. So instead of actually having breakfast, here I was in this depleted state with no, you know, not a lot of fuel at all because I hadn't eaten since seven o'clock the day before. Not only am I not eating, I'm actually trying to burn without any calories. So the idea that, okay, my body is going to utilize fat versus me having a bunch of food in me and then utilizing glucose first was the theory and the idea of continuing that on and had tremendous success with it. And I still recommend it if you use it like that. But if you think you're doing something extra special, you're really not. Well, this is where, again, to your point of bro science, like kind of perpetually kind of existing is because it's honing in on something that can become a habit and something like you're adding an extra amount of activity. And we all know as trainers, people that establish these in early morning time slots usually have the most longevity in terms of like establishing like new types of habits in the routine. So, you know, it makes sense that this could be an opportunity to now add, you know, more excess activity that accumulates, you know, your overall towards the end of the day. I think the behavior stuff is always important to consider. But all things being equal, if you're going to get the same activity as you would if it was fast or not, doesn't make a difference. Now it's personal preference. Like I work out fasted every morning because I feel better working out fast. I know most people don't. Most people need to have some food a couple hours before they train for maximum performance. I just like working out fast. It feels better to me. But other than that, no, it's got no additional benefit. All things being equal. But I think what Adam, what you said is very important because oftentimes all things are not equal. And one thing may work better for your behaviors than the other. And that's where the benefit often comes from. And we think it's like some, you know, physiological magic that's happening, but it's not. It's the fact that you just moved more or you woke up early and moved more versus if you didn't. I think this is similar to the bro science that would try and support the anabolic window also. I think part of why people saw so much success with doing things like that is the ritual of making sure you pound a protein shake as soon as you get done with your workout. Like you would never have a meal in the locker room of a gym. But, you know, it's become so ritualized as the anabolic window that you have all these meat heads pounding shakes before they even and they swear by it helping them out. Well, probably because it's an extra 30 or 40 grams of protein and without that they may not hit their protein. They might not get it because you got to literally be intentional. That's right. So it's a ritual. And so I found, I even would catch myself doing the same thing too, especially when I was bulking and trying to get five, 6,000 calories. One of the things I liked was as soon as I finished working out, if I slammed a shake, by the time I got home showered, I'd already be ready to get more calories and more protein in. Saw tremendous value. It had nothing to do with the anabolic window. It was more about the behavior of me making sure I consistently get another 30 grams of protein as quick as I could. Next question is from Tehorita 11. If you've taken growth hormones or steroids in years past, do they still have an effect on your current muscle growth? Sure. Yes and no. So here's why yes, right? So muscle memory is a very real thing. So what that means is, let's say it takes you a year of good consistent resistance training and diet to gain, let's say, 15 pounds of lean body mass and then you lose it the following year. You'll gain it back in a month or two, right? So it takes you a year to gain it the first time, but to gain it back, it only took a couple months. This is well documented. So if you take anabolic steroids, you can build more muscle and move past certain genetic limits and then you go off the steroids. That muscle memory remains and you'll probably be able to build more muscle than if you never did those things in the first place. Now here's why the no. So I said yes and no. Here's the no part. And studies now show this. Men who use anabolic steroids in their youth oftentimes have impacted natural testosterone levels throughout their entire lives. Oftentimes it shows up in their 40s. So they'll use anabolic steroids in their 20s and then they'll go back to being natural and it takes three, four months to get their body and go back and then their testosterone levels seem to be normal. Then they have 40 and it's lower than it had been had they never done that. So they have the muscle memory, but now they have the hormones working against them because now they have low testosterone. And they're again, there's studies that show this that anabolic hormone use results oftentimes in lower natural testosterone use, excuse me, testosterone levels later in life. So muscle memory positive, natural testosterone.  So it's not as easy as people think. I think it's a bit of a trade off. And if you add those two factors up, I guess the answer is it depends on which one. Wouldn't it also factor like how much you were using back then and for how long and all that, depending on like how severe it's going to impact you later on with that use it for a year on and off. It's going to have more of a negative impact later on than if you did it just for three months. So yeah, of course, but again, it's funny because there was one study in particular where it showed even doing a single, you know, common cycle of let's say 14 weeks or 12 weeks. They showed in the study to have a negative effect on testosterone levels later on in somebody. So which one of those is more impactful on you? I think it's more than that too. I think there's a negative psychological effect also. You know, you take steroids for a couple of years consistently or even a year consistently and get used to what it feels like to train and eat on those. And then that was one of the hardest things for me coming off of steroids would be the afterwards. What after I come off is not feeling as strong, not having as much energy, not being able to eat a little bit out of bounds on your diet and it's still pack on muscle and that has a psychological effect. If you're used to grabbing the 120 pound dumbbells and now you're only grabbing the 90s, it's a harder to kind of get up for it in the morning to train like that consistently. I have great workouts versus now my workouts are better. Right, so even though there might be some physiological benefits that are left over from it, there's also some negative psychological benefits from taking it before and then not having it that can be detrimental too. Yeah, in my experience and again, all these things matter. I think people just look at one factor and think yeah, you're going to have more muscle later because of muscle memory and that's shown and all that stuff, but they don't consider all the other factors in the context. Look at my experience and I've known a lot of people, obviously in the fitness space and I know a lot of people who've used anabolic steroids in their youth for relatively long periods of time. The most muscular fit 40, 50 year old people I know, if I had to compare the two categories and went off versus people that were always natural, the natural people. The natural people tend to do better. I think it's because they develop better habits.  Their testosterone hormone levels stay optimized for much longer. The people who I know who used anabolic steroids in their youth and then went off and never went back on hormone replacement therapy, they tend to not do so well. Now, there's also of course the category of guys who then go on hormone replacement therapy which is a whole other conversation. So if you're listening to this or you're watching this and you're thinking, you know, I'm going to do it to get the muscle memory effects. That way later I could rebuild the muscle. You are not considering the whole context of the effects it's going to have on your physical body and also on your psyche. And I think if you're doing it once or twice or doing it for a year to give you better muscle later on, it's probably not going to work that way. Next question is from preacherman Joe. Are there any benefits in adding bands or chains on the big three or any other workouts? Or is it too much over training? This is one of the most... I love doing that. It's one of the most effective ways to augment or change your training to produce better results. One of the most effective by far. Now, does it cause more damage? Not really. Chains maybe. Chains can be pretty...  Not bands though.  I don't feel like I over train. I see faster results. Strength athletes have been using bands and chains forever. I know the Soviets use them way back and people just get strong doing them. Now, why is it so... What's so different about it, right? I remember when I was younger and I saw people using chains, I thought just put a weight on the bar. What's the difference? I thought they were just trying to look cool, right? Change the strength curve. It does. I mean, when you lower a weight, the links hit the ground. So the weight gets lighter as you get higher with your squat or whatever. The links come off the ground. It gets heavier. And it matches your body's strength curve. The bottom of a squat, you're weaker than you are at the top. So what if we had a weight that was heavier at the top and lighter at the bottom? Which that's what they do. So people know it really changes that exercise because traditionally the squat's the opposite. It doesn't get harder as you get. It's the same. It's the same actually gets easier as you get to the top and it's easier for you to lock out because the weight gets easier as you get towards the end. When you have the chains, the opposite is happening. So it really changes that exercise. So that's how I look at this is it's almost like, hey, if I've been doing squats for, let's say, three or four weeks, back-loaded, same everything pretty much as far as a similar load, that's a nice way to kind of change it up. It's almost like changing the exercise. And the same thing goes like as if you would cycle in and out of exercises is you wouldn't want to do chains and then never not do chains. It's one of those things that you have that's a tool and use it in your workouts intermittently and then pull it out. And I think there's great benefits to it. Yeah. I mean, in terms of treating these types of lifts like a skill, I think it's one of those beneficial tools, especially when you start to naturally kind of find that limitation load-wise and to be able to introduce this and have that sort of bridge between that next leap in terms of load. It's nice to be able to get a bit more weight on the bar and be able to work through that or less weight and make it add that extra bit of resistance so you have to kind of fight that extra bit. So I think it's a nice kind of intermediary type of a device and tool and something to include if you really are trying to progress forward and something that is your goal especially if you're a strength athlete, of course, this is something to consider.  I mean, if you're just kind of hitting a wall and you need to try a new technique, I think this is definitely beneficial in that regard. Yeah, it's one of my favorites. It's absolutely one of my favorites and when I do it and I do it right, it's like I get great results every time.  Once you get to your intermediate levels and you want to test new things, start with bands, chains are much more complicated to require and they do beat up the body a little more and then watch how it feels. It feels good. It's one of the weird things about it. You put a band on a bench press and you can feel... And what's it called the thing that Mark Bell sells? It goes over your arms and slingshots. Slingshots is very similar. Yeah.  Very similar to resistance bands. It's just a very convenient... Yeah, same kind of concept. Next question is from Jungle Jerry. Does getting a pump do anything for hypertrophy or just make you feel bigger for a short period of time? Yeah, there's two things that consider with the pump. One is think of the conditions that need to be present for you to get a really good pump, right? You're well-hydrated. You're probably well-fed, right? If you're in a really bad calorie deficit, your pumps tend to be gone, right? So you're well-fed, well-hydrated. You're not overtrained and you can connect to a muscle. It's hard to get a pump on a muscle that you have a terrible connection to. So when you get a good pump, it's also a good sign that, wow, I've got all those things. And that means that at least some of the context is in the right place for muscle growth to happen. Now, does the pump also add to muscle growth with that other stuff being said? Yeah, studies actually show that it's got some hypertrophy benefits through cell swelling, which tends to signal muscle growth. Bodybuilders have known this forever. Now, isn't that basically what's happening there? Is your body is learning or adapting to being able to fill the muscle with more fluid than it would before, right? That's really the process of the sarcoplasmic hypertrophy. Well, sarcoplasm is all of the non-muscle fiber structures and fluid within muscle and train the pump, theoretically, improves or increases that because you improve capillary density. I think of it like this. Imagine like a water balloon and you always fill it up to exactly one cup, one cup, one cup, and it kind of expands and then you pour it out. Whereas if now you force in two cups in there and it volume-wise can be... The next time that you put that water in, it gets to that two cups a lot easier because you've taught it to stretch out. Yeah, there could be. There's a little bit of muscle fascia stretching. That'll happen with that also. And also just you build more capillary so you get more blood flow in the muscle. There's also signals. There's some studies that show that actually signals more muscle growth. Don't the cells actually volume-wise too? Yes. Yeah, so the cells actually grow and get bigger which if they get bigger they technically can hold more fluid, right? Yeah. So that's kind of what's happening is you've trained it to expand more than you ever have before and if you can expand the cells more, they can hold more... Well, it's not just that. You're also increasing the amount of fluid that can go in there because more capillaries start to develop. You start to get more blood flow, more oxygen, more fluid through just your body, improving its ability to do it also. And then you get the stretching effect and the swelling effect. That also signals more muscle growth also. They show it increases muscle protein synthesis. So it is. Now if you live and die by the pump you'll make a mistake. Because that's right. Now I was going to add to that. So I was a chase the pump guy only forever. And one of the things that drove me crazy is, man, I could get to a place where I could really air up and look amazing in the gym. But two hours later, I feel like I would deflate almost like that water balloon got completely emptied and I didn't feel like there was the permanent effects that you might get from hypertrophy training didn't seem to be as sustainable or visual when I wasn't pumped as when I was strength training. We've talked about this before. Oh, with heavy weight. Yeah. That was one of the big differences when I started training like five by fives and like really heavy, really pushing the weight was I didn't quite get as much of a pump but the muscle I did add or build seemed to still be there even when I wasn't pumped up. But when I was always chasing the pump and hypertrophy, I looked amazing in the gym but then when I would air out, I would deflate back down to what I thought was like the normal size of me and it didn't feel like as much of the gains stayed, if that makes sense. You know, early strength athletes didn't even, the pump was almost a nuisance because... I was just gonna say, I mean, that's always been my experience. Yeah. Yeah, especially with a forearm, you know, in terms of grip and getting a crazy forearm pump, it was like a very detrimental effect that would happen in terms of like if I would need to...  Yeah, to do anything. It was one of those things that I always considered a bad thing and then, you know, getting into the bodybuilding side of training started to figure out, oh, wow, that's actually, you know, what they're seeking out because it does give you that effect that, man, it fills up your shirts, your muscles look like they almost doubled in size but I didn't really see the value of it until the combination of the two consistently with the hypertrophy and then the strength training together is like you get that size focus but also now the strength kind of helps to sustain. Yeah, when I train clients, it was a great way for me to teach clients how to connect to muscles. Yeah. And it was also a great sign that they were building a muscle they had poor connection to. Like, if I had a female client whose butt was really hard for her to build her butt and she couldn't feel it when she squatted or whatever and we would do priming and we do all the muscles, you know, all the exercises for the glutes and I would make her technique good and after a couple months all of a sudden she'd say, oh, I feel a pump in my butt and then I knew it's going to build, we're connecting to it and it's working well but I'll tell you, along the lines of what you said, Justin, I had a client once who hired me he was a motocross racer and he hired me because his forearms would get pumped while racing and he would lose his grip and he literally said, I need to train and I need a way to reduce the pump in my forearms and I remember being so like, I don't know what to do because usually I'm trying to get that I mean, imagine you just trained his work capacity, right? You're probably just having him hold So that was my, so actually my experience was, and this is kind of hilarious but it was playing guitar so I would get on stage and I would like get so tense and I don't know if like, you know, the adrenaline and whatnot kind of added to that but like I would start playing and my forearm would just get so tight and pumped and like I couldn't even keep playing to a certain point and I would get so frustrated because it was like limited, you know, to the length of like how I could keep a really good continuous like rhythm so I started doing a lot more farmer carries and I started doing all that kind of stuff to elongate, you know, that ability Yeah, lots of endurance work That's exactly what I did lots of endurance work and then he got better with managing I got in jiu-jitsu when I first started training I'd grip the gi and just get so pumped that I'd lose my grip and then eventually your body, you know, gets better and adapts but it's a great way to sign and signal what's going on there are specific phases of maps programs where you're training for this like phase three of maps enabolic or maps aesthetic is focused on the pump but phase one of both is strength and you might get a pump, you might not but we don't care, it's about getting stronger and building muscles through that if you combine the two and train in phases then you can really reap the benefits but if you get stuck in one and you never utilize the other side then you're definitely slowing down That's the key takeaway from this, I think because that's why people get trapped in one or the other you know, I was trapped in the and the hypertrophy one is really easy especially for, you know, the person who's going to the gym to be more muscular because when you're aired up, you look way different and you want that Yeah, and you want that and it's like It's a good feeling, yeah It is, it's a great feeling you can see it immediately right away so, you know, you end up chasing that all the time thinking that that's, you know, going to help get you bigger and then, you know, if you've been doing that for six months consistently all the time your body's so adapted to that you're getting very little benefit to actually building any muscle and the best thing that person could do if they want to look bigger or be bigger is to switch out of the pump training and go into strength training Yep, look, if you like our information head over to mindpumpfree.com and check out our guides they can help you burn body fat build muscle improve your health and your longevity and your mobility Again, it's mindpumpfree.com You can also find all of us on Instagram So Justin is at Mind Pump Justin I'm at Mind Pump Sal and Adam is at Mind Pump Adam