Hey everyone! Welcome to this event, Build Your Cloud Center of Excellence. I'm your host, Lisa Martin, and I have two guests here with me today to talk about the hybrid cloud, the multi-cloud trends, and specifically the complexity. While we know these trends provide agility and flexibility for customers, they also bring in complexity, and this session is going to focus on exploring that with RBI and Hitachi Vantara. Please welcome my guests, Adithya Sastri, the SVP of Digital Solutions at Hitachi Vantara, and Werner Mayer, head of Group Core IT and head of Group Data at RBI International. Guys, welcome to the program. Thank you, Lisa. Werner, nice to see you again. And Werner, we're going to start with you. Talk about RBI, tell the audience a little bit about what the business is, and then we're going to get into your cloud transformation journey over the last couple of years. Yes, thank you. So, we have some banking international working banking groups, so our core markets are Central Eastern Europe and Austria, and we're serving around 50 million clients in this market, so we're active in 30 markets. Got it. Talk to me, Werner, about the cloud transformation journey that RBI has been on over the last couple of years and some of the complexities that you've experienced as you've launched it. Sure, thank you for the question. So, in 2020, we decided that we have to renew our IT strategy, and the aim of the strategy was to change the organization in a way that it can react and adapt fast to the future challenges. So, one of the important pillars for us was that we adapted fast also for new technologies. This was core Bill and all strategy. So, we're searching for technologies which are fitting to our HR transformation, and we found that the cloud and the public cloud environment fits to this venture. So, we tested that, and we're building up also the competence centers for that, and also established a group platform for that, because our aim was to onboard our international group with the 13 units to this group cloud platform. So, that means we have a lot to do to hardening the platforms in terms of security to put in the high standards for that. We have to introduce large-scale programs to train hundreds of engineers. We tested the approach, we convinced the top management, and we implemented this program. So, one of the highlights was of course also the safeguarding of the Ukraine, let's say, banking environment. So, we had to lift and shift the complete bank in three months, and it shows that let's say our platforms works and let's say the approach is proven that we can scale it over the group. That's a big challenge, a lot of complexity, especially with some of the global things going on. Edithya, these challenges are not unique to RBI. A lot of your customers are facing challenges with complexity around cloud management, cloud ops. What can you unpack what the real issue is here? Yeah, Lisa, absolutely. Before I answer your question, I do want to just say a couple of things about Raphison Bank, and we've had the pleasure of working with them for about a year, a little bit more than a year now, and the way they approach the cloud transformation journey should be a template for a lot of the organizations in terms of the preparation, in terms of understanding how other companies have done it, and what are the pitfalls, what's worked, and really what's the recipe for their journey, which is very unique because you look at being present across 30 different countries within Central and Eastern Europe, as Werner said, and the complexities of dealing with local regulations, GDPR, and all these other issues that come with it, and not to mention the language variation from country to country. So, a phenomenal story there, the journey, and the journey still goes, Werner, it's not complete yet, but Lisa, to your question, when we look at the complexities of this transformation that most a lot of enterprises are going through, it's not very unique. What is unique for Raphison Bank has been the preparation, but as you get into this journey of moving workloads to the cloud, be it refactoring, modernizing, migrating, etc., one of the things that really is often overlooked is, are my applications and data workloads resilient on the cloud? Meaning, are they, how is their performance? Are they just running, or are they performing with high availability to meet your customer's goals? Is it scalable? And are my costs in line with what I projected when I moved from, right? Because that's one of the areas we're seeing where, you know, what enterprises projected from a cost savings to what they're realizing a year and a half into the journey is a pretty big delta, right? And a lot of it is dependent on are the applications and the workloads designed for the cloud, or are they designed for on-prem, which you're just moving to the cloud. So, Werner, it sounds like what Adithya said is a compliment to you guys and the team at RBI in terms of this being a template for managing complexity. Give us, Werner, your perspective in terms of modern cloud ops, what's in, what's out, what is it that customers really need to be focusing on to be successful? Thanks for the compliment, Adith, and I think it's a great relationship also in the journey. I mean, the whole topic is a complex program where a lot of things have to fit together. Adith was mentioning the resilience, the cost, we call it FinOps, security operations and so on, have to come together and have to work on spot. At the end, it's also, let's say, how we are enabling our teams and how we are ramping up the skills of our teams to deal with this multi-dimensional, let's say, environments. And this is something what we spend a lot of time in order to prepare it, but also to bring up the people on a certain level that they can operate it, because cloud cloud handling is different than before. Because beforehand, you have central operations teams that do everything for you, but in this world, let's say, we're also putting the responsibility of the run component of the apps in the tribes and the application teams, and they have to do much more than before. On the other hand, we have central rows, we have monitoring functions, we have support functions on that in order to best support them in their journey. So this is a hybrid between, let's say, what the teams have to do with the responsibility in the teams, but also with the central functions, which are supporting them. And everything have to work together and go hand in hand. Yeah, and if I could just add Lisa really quick, and Werner hit the nail on the head, because you cannot look at cloud operation the way we have traditionally looked at managed services. That's the key thing. You cannot, you know, traditional managed services, you have L1, L2, L3, and then it goes into some sort of a vacuum, and then also somebody calls you at some point, and really has flipped to Werner's point, and Werner hit that nail on the head because you really have to understand, bring an engineering-led approach to make sure that the problems, you know, when you see an issue that we have some level of automation in terms of problem isolation, and then the problem is rather the right individual, i.e. the application engineering team or the data engineering team for resolution in a rapid manner. A very important point what Adel said here, so you cannot traditional transport, let's say the operation model what we have now into the cloud because this will not work, and finally at the end you will not benefit on the technology possibilities there. It's a super important point. My vision in the cloud, and this is also something what we're working on is a sort of zero ops environment, because without the heat dealing with the optimization technologies and so on, you can do much more compared to the traditional environment, and the benefit of the cloud is you can test it, you can give it the back when it is not working, so it's a completely different operating model what we try to establish in the cloud environment. So really what this seems like guys is quite a delicate balance that you're solving for, not the only delicate balance, but Werner sticking with you, talk to us about some of the challenges that you've had around cloud cost management in particular. Help us understand that. Thanks for the question. So in principle we're doing very well on the coast side, surprisingly, and we also started the chaotic journey that they said this is not the coast case, because as I said before, let's say one of the pillars in the strategy was the enablement of technology to the benefit of the customer solutions to be adaptive, to be faster, but at the end it turned out that let's say with giving the responsibility of the operation to the dedicated team, they were working much closer to the coast and let's say monitoring the coast than we had in the traditional environments. I also saw some examples in the group where sort of gamification of the coasts were going on to say who can save more and make much more out of that what you have in the cloud. And at the end we see that in minimum the coasts are balanced to the traditional environments in the data centers, but we also saw that the coasts were brought on much more than before. So at the beginning we were relatively conservative with the assumptions, but it turns out that we are really getting the benefit, the things are getting faster and also the coasts are going down and we see this in real cases. Yeah and Lisa, if I could add something really quick, right, because you know there's been a mad rush to the cloud, right? Everybody kind of it was you know the buzz was let's get to the cloud, we'll start to realize all these savings and all of a sudden everything magically gets better, right? And what we have seen is also you know companies for customers or enterprises that have started this journey about five six years ago and are about you know a few years into it. What we are realizing is the cloud costs having increased significantly to their projections were early on and the way they're trying to address the cloud cost is by creating a Phenops organization that's looking at you know the cost of cloud and the structure standpoint is important as a reactive measure saying hey if we move from Azure or one provider to another, is there any benefit? If we move certain applications from the cloud back to on-premise, is there any benefit? When in fact one of the things that we have noticed really is the problem needs to shift left to the engineering teams because if you're designing the applications and the systems the right way to begin with then you can manage the cost of issues or the cost overruns, right? So you design for the cloud as opposed to designing and then looking at how to be on the cloud. So Dithya, you talked about the RBI use case as really kind of a template but also some of the challenges with respect to hybrid and multi-cloud are kind of like a chicken and egg scenario. Talk to us kind of like overall about how Hitachi is really helping customers address these challenges and maximize the benefits to get the flexibility to get the agility so that they can deliver what their end user customers are expecting. Yeah, so one of the things we are doing Lisa when we work with customers is really trying to understand you know look at their entire portfolio of applications right and look at what the intent of the applications is between customer facing external customer, internal customer, high availability, production etc, right? And then we go through a methodology called E3 which is Envision Enable and Execute which is really envision what the end state should be regardless of what the environment does, right? And then we enable which is really kind of go through a proof of value to move a few workloads to modernize rearchitect, replatform etc and look at the benefit of that application on its destination if it's a cloud if it's a cloud service provider or if it's another data center whatever it may be right? And finally you know once we've proven the value and the benefit and kind of monetized the you know realize the value of it from an agility from a cost from security and resilience etc then we go through the execution which was look we look at the entire portfolio the entire landscape and we go through a very disciplined manner working with our customers to roadmap it and then be executed in a very deliberate manner where you can see value every two to three months because gone are the days when you can think as a science project that took two to three years, right? We everyone wants to see value, want to see progress and most importantly we want to see cost benefit and agility sooner than later. Those are incredibly important outcomes you guys have done a great job explaining what you're doing together this sounds like a great relationship. Alright so my last question to both of you is if I'm a customer and I'm planning a cloud transformation for my company what are the two things you want me to remember and consider as I plan this? Werner we'll start with you. I would pick up two things here the first one is when you're organizing your your company in the HR way then cloud is the HR technology for the HR transformation because HR teams need HR technology and the second important things what they would see is cloud is a is a large scale and fast moving technology enabled to the company so if your company is going forward to say technology is they enabled to from a future business then cloud can support this journey.  Yeah and I think Werner can actually touch on that the second one which is it's not a tech just an IT or a technology initiative it is a business initiative right because ultimately what you do from this cloud journey should drive you know should lead into business transformation or help your business grow top line or drive margin expansion etc so a couple of things I would say right one is you know get buying and prioritize work with your business owners with you know with the cross functional team not just the technology team that's one. The second thing is as the technology team or the IT team shepherds this journey you know keep everyone informed and engaged as you go through this journey because as you go through moving workloads modernizing workload there is an impact to you know receivables through omni-channel experiences the way customers interact and transact with you right and that comes with making sure your businesses are aware your business stakeholders are aware so in turn the end customers are aware so you know it's not a one-and-done from an engagement it's a journey and bring in the right experts talk to people who have done it done this before who have kind of stepped in all the pitfalls so you don't have to right that's the key that's great advice that's great advice for anything in life I think we talk about the collaboration the importance of the business and the technology folks coming together it really has to be it's a delicate balance as we said before but it really has to be a holistic collaborative approach guys thank you so much for joining me talking through what Hitachi Vantara and RBI are doing together sounds like you're well into this journey and it sounds like it's going quite well we thank you so much for your insights and your perspectives thank you Lisa winner thank you good stuff guys for my guests I'm Lisa Martin thank you so much for watching our event build your cloud center of excellence our founder Namae Odaera had the vision of converting Japan from coal fired steam power to hydroelectric power Hitachi designed and built the first hydroelectric generator in Japan sustainability is in the DNA of our family of companies we're in this for everyone at Hitachi Vantara we're making data centers not only eco-friendly but eco-first and foremost reducing carbon emissions and consuming 65% less energy Hitachi Vantara for the planet for the data driven hey everyone thanks for joining us today welcome to this event of building your cloud center of excellence with Hitachi Vantara I'm your host Lisa Martin I've got a couple of guests here with me next to talk about redefining cloud operations and application modernization for customers please welcome Prembala Subramanian the SBP and CTO at Hitachi Vantara and Manoj Narayanan is here as well the managing director of technology at GTCR guys thank you so much for joining me today excited to have this conversation about redefining cloud ops with you pleasure to be here yeah Prem let's go ahead and start with you you have done well over a thousand cloud engagements in your career I'd love to get your point of view on how the complexity around cloud operations and management has evolved in the last say three to four years it's a great question Lisa before we understand the complexity around the management itself the cloud has evolved over the last decade significantly from being infrastructure or infrastructure as a service for many companies to become the business for many companies you think about a lot of these cloud bond companies cloud is where their entire workload and their business wants with that as a background for this conversation if you think about the cloud operations there was a lot of there was a lot of lift and shift happening in the market where people lifted their workloads or applications and moved them on to the cloud where they created cloud significantly as an infrastructure and the way they started to manage it was again the same form as they were managing there on from infrastructure and they call it I know infrastructure and operations that's kind of the way traditionally cloud was managed in the last few years we're seeing a significant shift around thinking of cloud more as a workload rather than as just an infrastructure and what I mean my work workload is in the cloud everything is now code so you're codifying your infrastructure and applications already code and your data is also codified as data services with now that context applied the way you think about managing the cloud has to significantly change and many companies are moving towards trying to change their models to look at this complex environment as opposed to treating it like a simple infrastructure that is sitting somewhere else so that's one of the biggest changes and shifts that are causing a lot of complexity and headache for actually a lot of customers for managing environments the second critical aspect is even that even exasperates the situation is multi-cloud environments now there are companies that have got it right with things about right cloud for the right workload so there are companies that I reach out and I talk with they've got their office applications and emails and stuff running on Microsoft 365 which can be the Azure cloud whereas they're running their engineering applications the ones that they build and leverage for their end customers on Amazon and to some extent they've got it right but still they have a multiple cloud that they have to go after and maintain this becomes complex when you have two clouds for the same type of workload when I have to host applications for my end customers on Amazon as well as Azure as well as Google then I get into security issues that I have to be consistent across all three I get into talent because I need to have people that focus on Amazon as well as Azure as well as Google which means I need so much more workforce I need so many so much more skills that I need to build right that's becoming the second issue the third one is around data costs can I make these clouds talk to each other then you get into the English egress cost and that creates some complexity so bringing all of this together and managing is really becoming more complex for our customers and obviously as a part of this we will talk about some of the some of the ideas that we can bring for in managing such complex environments but this is what we are seeing in terms of why the complexity has become a lot more in the last few years. Right a lot of complexity in the last few years Manoj let's bring you into the conversation now before we dig into your cloud environment give the audience a little bit of an overview of GTCR what kind of company are you what do you guys do? Definitely Lisa GTCR is a Chicago based private equity firm we've been in the market for more than 40 years and what we do is we invest in companies across different sectors and then we manage the company drive it to increase the value and then over a period of time sell it to future buyers so in a nutshell we've got a large portfolio of companies that we need to manage and make sure that they perform the expectations and I work with GTCR is from a technology viewpoint so where I work with all the companies their technology leadership to make sure that we're getting the best out of technology and technology today drives everything so how can technology be a good complement to the business itself so my role is to play that intermediary role to make sure that there is synergy between the investment thesis and the technology levers that we can pull and also work with partners like Hitachi to make sure that it is done in an optimal manner. I like that you said technology needs to really complement the business and vice versa so Manoj let's get into the cloud operations environment at GTCR talk to me about what the experience has been the last couple of years give us an idea of some of the challenges that you were facing with existing cloud ops and the solution that you're using from Hitachi Ventara. Absolutely in fact Prem phrased it really well one of the key things that we're facing is the workload management so there's so many choices there so much complexities we have these companies buying more companies there is organic growth that is happening so the variables that we have to deal with are very high in such a scenario to make sure that the workload management of each of the companies are done in an optimal manner is becoming an increasing concern so that's one area where any help we can get anything we can try to make sure it is done better becomes a huge value at each. A second aspect is financial transparency we need to know where the money is going where the money is coming in from what is the scale especially in a cloud environment we are talking about an auto-scaled ecosystem having that financial transparency and the metrics associated with that these become very very critical to ensure that we have a successful presence in the multi-cloud environment. Talk a little bit about the solution that you're using with Hitachi and the challenges that it is eradicated. Yeah so end of the day right we need to focus on our core competence so we have got a very strong technology leadership team we've got a very strong presence in the respective domains of each of the portfolio companies but where Hitachi comes in and how comes in as a solution is that they allow us to excel in focusing on our core business and then make sure that we are able to take care of workload management or financial transparency all of that is taken off the table from us and Hitachi manages it for us right so it's a perfectly complementary relationship where they act as two partners and Hark is a solution is extremely useful in driving that and I'm anticipating that it will become more important with time as the complexity of cloud and cloud associated workloads are only becoming more challenging to manage and not less. Right that's the thing that complexity is there and it's also increasing Prem you talked about the complexities that are existing today with respect to cloud operations the things that have happened over the last couple of years what are some of your tips Prem for the audience like the top two or three things that you would say on cloud operations that that people need to understand so that they can manage that complexity and allow their business to be driven and complemented by technology. Yeah a big great question again Lisa right and I think Manoj alluded to a few of these things as well the first one is in the new world of the cloud I think think of migration modernization and management as a single continuum to the cloud now there is no lift and shift and there is no somebody else separately manages it right if you do not lift and shift the right applications the right way onto the cloud you are going to deal with the complexity of managing it and you'll end up spending more money time and effort in managing it so that's number one migration modernization management of cloud work roles is a single quantum room and it's not pre separate activities right that's number one in the second is cost. Cost traditionally has been an afterthought right people move the workload to the cloud and I think again like I said I'll refer back to what Manoj said once we move it to the cloud and then we put all these fancy engineering capability around self provisioning every developer can go and ask for what he or she wants and they get an environment immediately spun up so on and so forth suddenly the CIO waits up to a bill that is significantly larger than what he or she expected right and this is this has become a bit common nowadays right the challenge is because we think cost in the cloud as an afterthought now consider this example in previous world you buy hard value put it in your data center you've already amortized the cost as a capex so you can write an application throw it onto the infrastructure and the application continues to use the infrastructure until you hit a ceiling you don't care about the money you spent but if I write a line of code that is inefficient today and I deploy it on the cloud from minute one I am paying for the inefficiency so if I realize it after six months I've already spent the money so financial discipline especially when managing the cloud is now is no more an afterthought it is as much something that you have to include in your engineering practice as much as any other DevOps practices right those are my top two tips Lisa from my standpoint think about cloud think about cloud cloud workloads in the last one again and you will see you will hear me saying this again and again get into the mindset of everything is code you don't have a touch and feel infrastructure anymore so you don't really need to have foot on the ground to go manage the infrastructure it's codified so your code should be managing it and think of how it happens right that's where we're going as an evolution for this everything is code that's great advice great tips for the audience there but I should bring you back into the conversation you know we can talk about skills gaps on in many different facets of technology the sre role relatively new skill set we're hearing a lot about it sre led DevSecOps is probably even more so of a new skill set if I'm an IT leader or an application leader how do I ensure that I have the right skill set within my organization to be able to manage my cloud operations to to dial down that complexity so that I can really operate successfully as a business yeah so unfortunately there is no perfect answer right it's such a such a scarce skill set that any day any of the portfolio company ctos if I go and talk and say hey here's a great sre team member they will be more than willing to fight with each other to get the person that's right it's that scares the skill set so so a few things we need to look at it one is how can I build it within right so nobody gets born as an sre you you make a person an sre so how do you inculcate that culture so like Prem said earlier right everything is software so how do we make sure that everybody inculcates that as part of their operating philosophy be they part of the operations team or the development team or the testing team they need to understand that that is the common guideline and common objective that we're driving towards it so that skill set and that associated training needs to be driven from within the organization and that in my mind is the fastest way to make sure that that role gets propagated across organization that is one the second thing is rely on the right partners so it's not going to be possible for us to get all of these roles built in house so instead prioritize what roles need to be done from within the organization and what roles can we rely on our partners to drive it for us so that becomes an important consideration for us to look at as well absolutely that partnership angle is incredibly important to from from the beginning really kind of weaving these companies together on this journey to redefine cloud operations and build that as we talked about at the beginning of the conversation really building a cloud centered excellence that allows the organization to be competitive successful and and really deliver what the end user is is expecting something to it I think sure yeah one of the one of the common things that I tell customers when we talk about sre and to Manoj's point is don't think of sre as a skill set which is the common way to really industry tries to solve the problem sre is a mindset right everybody well said yeah that's well so everybody in a company should think of him or her as a site reliability engineer and everybody has a role in it right even if you take the new process layout from sre there are individuals that are responsible to whom we can go to when there is a problem directly as opposed to going through the traditional ways of a i talk to l1 and l1 contrast all they go to l2 and then for l3 so we're trying to move away from an issue escalation model to what we call as the issue routing or incident routing model right move away from incident escalation to an incident routing model so you get to root to the right folks so again to sum it up sre should not be solved as a skill set because there is not enough people in the market to solve with that pain if you start solving it as a mindset I think companies can get a handle of it I love that I've actually never heard that before but it makes perfect sense to think about the sre as a mindset rather than a skill set that will allow organizations to be much more successful probably I wanted to get your thoughts as enterprises are innovating they're moving more products and services to the as a service model talk about how the dev teams the ops teams are working together to build and run reliable cost efficient services are they working better together again a very polarizing question because some customers are getting it right many customers aren't there is still a big wall between development and operations right even when you think about DevOps as a terminology the fundamental principle was to make sure deaf and ops works together but what many companies have achieved today honestly is automating the operations for development for example as a developer I can check in code and my code will appear in production without any friction right there is automated testing automated provisioning and it gets promoted to production but after production it goes back into the 20 year old model of operating the code right so there is more work that needs to be done for dev and ops to come closer and work together and one of the ways that we think this is achievable is not by doing radical org changes but more by focusing on a product oriented single backlog approach across development and operations which is again there is change management involved but I think that's a way to start embracing the culture of dev and ops coming together much better now again sre principles as we double click and understand it more and google has done a very good job laying it out for the world as you think about sre principle there are ways and means in that process of how to think about a single backlog and in heart hitachi application reliability centers we've really got a way to look at prioritizing the backlog and what I mean by that is dev teams try to work on backlog that come from product managers on features the sre and the operations team try to put backlog into the system try to put features into the same backlog for improving stability availability and financials financial optimization of your code and there are ways when you look at your SLOs and error budgets to really coach the product teams to prioritize your backlog based on what's important for you so if you understand you're spending more money then you reduce your product features going in and implement the financial optimization that came from your operations team right so you now have the ability to throttle these parameters and that's where sre becomes a mindset and a principle as opposed to a skill set because this is not an individual telling you to do this is the company that is embarking on how to prioritize my backlog beyond just user features right great point last question for both of you is the same top kind of takeaway things that you want me to remember if I'm an IT leader at an organization and I am planning on redefining cloud ops for my company Manoj will start with you and then Prem go to you what are the top two things that you want me to walk away with understanding how to do that successfully yeah so I'll go back to basics so the two things I would say need to be taken care of is one is customer experience so all the things that I do end of the day is it improving the customer experience or not so that's the first metric the second thing is anything that I do is there an ROI by doing that incremental step or not otherwise we might get lost in the technology wizardry the new tech etc but end of the day if the customers are not happy if there is no ROI everything else uh it's just garnish on top of that now it's all about the customer experience right that's so true from one of your thoughts the top things that I need to be taking away if I am a leader planning to redefine my cloud eye company absolutely and I think from from uh company standpoint I think Manoj summarized it extremely bit right there is this ROI and there is this customer experience from my end again I'll suggest two more things as a takeaway right one cloud cost is not an afterthought it's essential for us to think about it up front number two do not deeming migration modernization and operations they are one stream if you migrate along wrong workload onto the cloud you're going to be stuck with it for a long time and an example of a wrong workload Lisa for everybody that that is listening to this is if my cost per transaction profile doesn't change and I am not improving my revenue per transaction for a piece of code that's going to run in production it's better off running in a data center where my cost is capexed and amortized and I have control over when I want to upgrade as opposed to putting it on a cloud and continuing to pay unless it gives me more dividends towards improvement but that's a simple example of when we think about what should I migrate and how will that cost pain when I want to manage it in the longer run but that's that's something that I'll leave the audience and you with as a takeaway excellent guys thank you so much for talking to me today about what Hitachi Ventura and GTC are doing together how you've really dialed down those complexities enabling the business and the technology folks to really live harmoniously we appreciate your insights and your perspectives on building a cloud center of excellence thank you both for joining me thank you for my guests I'm Lisa Martin you're watching this event building your cloud center of excellence with Hitachi Ventura thanks for watching data centers account for about four percent of the total greenhouse gas emissions worldwide and it's about to rise Hitachi Ventura is committed to changing that we look at every aspect of our storage business it actually has reduced the annual carbon footprint of VSP by up to 86 percent since 2014 we are in this for everyone at Hitachi Ventura we're making data centers not only eco-friendly but eco-first and foremost reducing carbon emissions and consuming 65% less energy Hitachi Ventura for the planet for the data driven hey everyone and welcome to this event build your cloud center of excellence I'm your host Lisa Martin in the next 15 minutes or so my guests and I are going to be talking about redefining cloud operations and application modernization for customers and specifically how partners are helping to speed up that process as you saw on our first two segments we talked about problems enterprises are facing with cloud operations we talked about redefining cloud operations as well to solve these problems this segment is going to be focusing on how Hitachi Ventura's partners are really helping to speed up that process we've got Johnson controls here to talk about their partnership with Hitachi Ventura please welcome both of my guests Primevala Subramanian is with us SVP and CTO digital solutions at Hitachi Ventura and Suresh Muthukuru SVP customer success platform engineering and reliability engineering from Johnson controls gentlemen welcome to the program great to have you thank you Lisa first question is to both of you and Suresh we'll start with you we want to understand you know the cloud operations landscape is increasingly complex we've talked a lot about that in this program talk to us Suresh about some of the biggest challenges and pain points that you faced with respect to that thank you I think it's a great question I mean cloud has evolved a lot in the last 10 years you know when we were talking about a single cloud that's Azure AWS and GCP and that was complex enough now we're talking about multi-cloud and hybrid and you look at Johnson controls we have Azure we have AWS we have GCP we have Alibaba and we also support on-prem so the architecture has become very very complex and the complexity has grown so much that we are not thinking about whether we should be cloud native or cloud agnostic so I think I think it's I mean sometimes it's hard to even explain the complexity because people think oh when you go to cloud everything is simplified cloud does give you a lot of simplicity but it also really brings a lot more complexity along with it so and the next one is pretty important is you know generally when you look at cloud services you have plenty of services that are offered within a cloud 100 150 services 200 services even within those companies you take AWS they might not know an individual resource might not know about all the services we see that's a big challenge for us as a customer to really understand each of the service that is provided in these you know clouds well it doesn't matter which one that is and the third one is pretty big at least at the CTO the CIO and the senior leadership level is cost cost is a major factor because cloud you know will eat you up if you cannot manage it if you don't have a good cloud governance process because every minute you're in it it's burning cash so I think if you ask me these are the three major things that I am facing day-to-day and that's where I use my partners which I'll touch base perfect we'll talk about that so Prem I imagine that these problems are not unique to Johnson controls or JCI as you may hear it hear us refer to it talk to me Prem about some of the other challenges that you're saying within the customer landscape so yeah I agree these are these are not very specific to JCA but there are specific issues in JCA right so the way we think about these are there is there is a common issue when people go to the club and there are very specific and unique issues for businesses right so JCI and we will talk about this in the episode as we move forward I think solution is to see if it's done some phenomenal step around how to manage this complexity but there are customers who have a lesser complex cloud which is they don't go to Alibaba they don't have footprint in all three clouds so their multi cloud footprint could be a bit more manageable but still struggle with a lot of the same problems around cost around security around talent talent is a big thing right and in Suresh's case I think it's it's slightly more exasperated because every cloud provider be it AWS, JCP or Azure brings in hundreds of services and there is nobody including many of us right we learn every day now nowadays right it's not that there is one service integrator who knows all while technically people can claim as a part of sales but in reality all of us are continuing to learn in this landscape and if you take if you put all of this equation together with multiple clouds the complexity just starts to exponentially grow and that's exactly what I think JCI is experiencing and Suresh's team has been experiencing and we've been working together but the common problems are around security talent and cost management of this right those are those are my three things and one last thing that I would love to say before before we move away from this question is if you think about cloud operations as a concept that's evolving over the last few years and I've touched upon this in the previous episode as well Lisa right if you take architectures we've grown into microservices we've gone into all these serverless architectures all the fancy things that we want that helps us go to market faster be more competitive as a business but that's not simplified stuff right that's complicated stuff it's a lot more distributed second again we've advanced and created more modern infrastructure because all of what we are talking is platform as a service services on the cloud that we are consuming right in the same case with development we've moved into a DevOps model we kind of click a button put some code in the repository the code starts to run in production within a minute everything else is automated but then when we get to operations we're still stuck in a very old way of looking at cloud as an infrastructure right so you've got an infra team you've got an app team you've got an incident management team you've got a soft lock everything but again Suresh Suresh can talk about this more because they are making significant strides in thinking about this as a single workload and how do I apply engineering to go manage this because a lot of it is codified right so automated anyway so that's kind of where the complexity is and how we are thinking including JCI as a partner thinking about taming that complexity as we move forward Suresh let's talk about that taming the complexity you guys have both done a great job of articulating the ostensible challenges that are there with cloud especially multi-cloud environments that you're living but Suresh talk about the partnership with Hitachi Ventura how is it helping to dial down some of those inherent complexities I mean I always you know I think I've said this to Prem multiple times I treat my partners as my internal you know you know employees I look at Prem as my co-worker or my peers and that's so the reason for that is I want Prem to have the same vested interest as a partner in my success or JCI success and vice versa isn't it I think that's how we operate and that's how we have been operating and I think I would like to thank Prem and Hitachi Ventura for that really been an amazing partnership and as he was saying we have taken a completely holistic approach to how we want to really be in the market and play in the market to our customers so if you look at my jacket it talks about open blue platform this is what JCI is building is that we are building this open blue digital platform and and within that my team along with Prem's or Hitachi we have built what we call as Polaris it's a technical platform where our apps can run and this platform is automated end to end from a platform engineering standpoint we stood up a platform engineering organization a reliability engineering organization as well as a support organization where Hitachi played a role as I said previously you know for me to scale I'm not going to really have the talent and the knowledge of every function that I'm looking at and Hitachi not only they brought the talent but they also brought what he was talking about Hark you know they have set up a lab and now we can leverage it and they also came up with some really interesting concepts I went and met them in India they came up with this call a concept called IPL okay what is that they really challenged all their employees that's working for GCI to come up with innovative ideas to solve problems proactively which is self-healing you know how you do that so I think partners you know if they become really vested in your interests they can do wonders for you and I think in this case Hitachi is really working very well for us in many aspects and I'm leveraging them are you starting with support now I'm leveraging them in the automation the platform engineering as well as in the reliability engineering and then in even in the engineering spaces and that like they are my end-to-end partner right so you're really taking that holistic approach that you talked about and sounds like it's a very collaborative two-way street partnership from I want to go back to so I just mentioned Hark talk a little bit about what Hark is and then how partners fit into Hitachi's Hark strategy great so let me spend like a few seconds on what Hark is Liz I've again I know we've been using the term Hark stands for Hitachi application reliability sectors now the reason we we thought about Hark was like I said in the beginning of this segment there is an evolution from an architecture standpoint to be more modern microservices serverless reactive architecture so on and so forth there is an evolution in your development methodology from waterfall to agile to DevOps to lean agile to path program whatever right extreme programming so on and so forth there is an evolution in the space of infrastructure from a point where you were buying these huge humongous servers and putting it in your data center to a point where people don't even see savers anymore right you buy it buy a click of a button you don't know the size of it all you know is a it's M1 M2 M3 whatever that name means let's go provision it on the fly get go get your work done right when all of this is advanced when you think about operations people have been solving the problem the way they've been solving it 20 years back right that's the issue and Hark was conceived exactly to fix to fix that particular problem to think about a modern way of operating a modern workload right that's exactly what Hark is so it brings together finest engineering talent so the teams are trained in specific ways of working we've invested and implemented some of the IP we work with best in best of the big part per ecosystem and I'll talk to that in a minute and we've got these facilities in Dallas and I am talking from my office in Dallas which is a Hark facility in the US from where we deliver for our customers and then back in Hyderabad we've got one more that we opened and these are facilities from where we deliver Hark services for our customers as well right and then we're expanding it in Japan and Portugal as we move into 23 that's kind of the plan that we're thinking through however that's what Hark is Lisa right that's our solution to this cloud complexity problem right got it and it sounds like it's going quite global which is fantastic so Suresh I want to have you expand a bit on the partnership the partner ecosystem and the role that it plays you talked about it a little bit but what role does the partner ecosystem play in really helping JCI to dial down some of those challenges and the inherent complexities that we talked about yeah sure I think partners play a major role and JCI is very very good at it I mean I've joined JCI 18 months ago JCI leverages partners pretty extensively as I said I leverage Hitachi Ventura for my you know a group and they're sorry space in the cloud operation space and they're my primary partner but at the same time we leverage many other partners you know Accenture, HCL and even on the tooling side we use DataDog and PortPorks all these guys are major partners of ours because the way we like to pick partners is based on our vision and where we want to go and pick the right partner who's going to really you know make you successful by investing their resources in you and what I mean by that is when you're a partner partner knows exactly what kind of skill set is needed for this customer for them to really be successful as I said earlier we do we cannot really get all the skill set that we need we rely on the partners and partners bring the right skill set they can scale I can tell Prem tomorrow hey I need two parts by next week and I can guarantee it is going to bring two parts to me so they let you scale they let you move fast and I'm a big believer in today's day and age to get things done fast and be more agile I'm not worried about failure but for me moving fast is very very important and partners really do a very good job bringing that but and then they also really make you think isn't it because one thing I like about partners they make you innovate whether they know it or not but they do because you know they will come and ask you questions about hey tell me why you are doing this can I review your architecture you know and then they will try to really say I don't think this is going to work because they work with so many different clients not JCI they bring all that expertise and that's what I look for them you know just not you know do a TNM job for me I ask you to do this go they just bring more than that that's how I pick my partners and that's how you know Hitachi's Ventura is definitely one of a good partner from that sense because they bring a lot more innovation to the table and I appreciate about that it sounds like it sounds like a flywheel of innovation yeah I love that last question for both of you is we're almost out of time here Prem I want to go back to you so I'm a partner I'm planning on redefining CloudOps at my company what are the two things you want me to remember from Hitachi Ventura's perspective so before I get to that question these are the partners that we work with are slightly different from the partners that again there are some similar partners there are some different partners right for example we pick and choose especially in the hog space we pick and choose partners that are more future focused right we don't care if they are huge companies or small companies we go after companies that are future focused that are really really nimble and can change for our customers need because it's not our need right when I pick partners for her my ultimate endeavor is to ensure in this case because we've got Suresh and GCI on we are able to operate dire environment with the level of satisfaction above and beyond that they are expecting from us and whatever I don't have I need to get from my partner so that I bring this solution to Suresh as opposed to bringing a whole lot of people and making them stand in front of Suresh and that's how I think about partners what do I want them to do from and we've always done this so we do workshops with our partners we just don't go by tools when we say we are partnering with XYZ we do workshops with them and we say this is how we are thinking either you build it in your roadmap that helps us leverage you continue to leverage you and we do have minimal investments where we fix gaps we're building some utilities for us to deliver the best service to our customers and our intention is not to build a product to compete with our partner our intention is to just fill the white space until they go build it into their product suite that we can then leverage it for our customers so always think about end customers and how can we make it easy for them because for all the tool vendors out there seeing this and wanting to partner with it actually the biggest thing is tools brawl especially on the cloud is very real so every problem on the cloud I have a billion tools that are being thrown at me as Suresh if I'm putting my Suresh's app and it's not easy at all it's so confusing that's what we want we want people to simplify that landscape for our end customers and we are looking at partners that are thinking through the simplification not just making them that makes perfect sense there there's there really is a very strong symbiosis it sounds like in the partner ecosystem and there's a lot of enablement that goes on back and forth it sounds like as well which is really to your point it's all about the end customers and what they're expecting so our last question for you is which is the same one if I'm a partner what are the things that you want me to to consider as I'm planning to redefine cloud ops at my company I'll keep it simple in my view just I mean you've touched upon in multiple facets in this interview about that the three things first and foremost reliability you know in today's day and age my products has to be reliable available and you know make sure that the customer is happy with what they're really dealing with number one number two my product has to be secure security is super super important okay and number three I need to really make sure my customers are getting the value so I have to keep my cost low so these three is where what I would focus and what I expect from my partners great advice guys thank you so much for talking through this with me and really showing the audience how strong the partnership is between Hitachi Ventura and JCI what you're doing together we'll have to talk to you again to see where things go but we really appreciate your insights and your perspectives thank you thank you Lisa thanks Lisa thanks for having us my pleasure for my guests I'm Lisa Martin thank you so much for watching


So this is a review of What Doesn't Kill Us, How Freezing Water, Extreme Altitude, and Environmental Conditioning Will Renew Our Lost Evolutionary Strength. It's by Scott Carney and Wim Hof. This book is about breathing, mindset, cold exposure, Wim Hof in general, and Scott Carney is a journalist who goes on an adventure with Wim Hof. As well, it does mention a surfing story with Laird Hamilton, which explains the surfing techniques. It is a primitive book, so cold in general is his friend. How Wim Hof comes with this is just having the exposure of the outside world, being connected. And many people nowadays are caught up in the tech revolution, the comfortable Western lifestyle, where you can have Uber take you to your destination. You don't even have to go out and cook. You can have Uber Eats bringing the food to you. So you can be a weak individual. So what this is is going outside will make you stronger. In other words, nature heals all wounds and deeper breathing can heal broken heart. And if you look at yourself right now, are you actually going places or are you just into an intellectual world? Like if you look in a map that you're at, are you just staying inside on your GPS system?  And some of these techniques can help you or at least give you inspiration to go outside. There's no quick fix, but it's just being curious. And since Scott Carney is kind of like a wimp, he's a journalist for for some big industry. You have to be aware of the primitive air and not discount it to be connected, not just to intellectualize the shortcuts that this is the 21st century. We've outgrown our natural instinct where if you want to understand nature, you have to go outside. There is a darkness element, a pain element, as well as natural earthy elements that you must be exposed to the wind chill will cause you to get in touch with Musashi's book of wind. If you are just living in a comfort and pleasurable world, you're going to be into a state of homeostasis where even a little prick, you know, it's like younger people or just people, if they get triggered very easily, that they're so weak, like a jellyfish that just goes with the flow of the water, it has no hardness to it, no direction, no virtue, no sharp virtue to pursue or just to take action, just butt hurt. And some of the interesting parts of the story is the freezing can cause your corneas to free. That's how cold the water and the air can get. The Iceman, who is Wim Hof, uses breathing techniques to relax himself, not to be stunted by the fear or the pain. And how I see this book and how it influences me is, as you can see in the title of this, is cold approach is my teacher. Cold approach is your friend. It may be dark. It may, you might get hurt.  And for me, the Laird Hamilton, who is a famous surfer, he surfs these big ways. I have a story about surfing in general. I was out in San Francisco, maybe a while ago when I was younger, and it is very hard to get out there. You have to paddle a lot and the waves were super big.  So I was stuck probably about 30 seconds, the first wave taking me down. So I have these relaxation techniques where I just let go. One technique is I do cover my head to make sure I don't hit the ground. Even though it's sand there, you can't hit a rock. Mostly I'm just scared of hitting a rock. So I cover my head, but mostly I just relax and let it let go. And when I got out of the wave, I had like one breath and then boom another wave. So I was stuck another like 30 seconds and these are big waves. I was stuck in there for a while. That was like the only time I've really been scared, but I made it out. And if I didn't have those techniques, these relaxation techniques, I could have died there in general. I have enough experience where I just relax and go with the flow. I know what to get out. I don't fight the riptide is something they teach you also these cold shower techniques. The cold water is so cold that it does spice something in you and it keeps you humble. It keeps you alive and your survival mechanisms start to kick in. So you get like a little adrenaline rush as well as I did take cold showers in Guatemala for about a month and a half and one month in Costa Rica, which I do not recommend, but it does feel good. It kind of has a wake you up fashion to it. And you'll see people do these ice tank things or yeah, it's called cryotherapy. People pay for this when all you have to do is really just go out and go get cold. But I do go out to the Canyon Ranch spa and there's another place Araya in Vegas that they have a range for a shower that is very cool as well as an ice cold water that you can do like this hot, cold like therapies, which do feel good. And it does open up your pores and it feels, you can feel alive with that. And when you are under these extreme conditions, you have to breathe slow. You can be in a flow state that takes more experience, slow motion. Your brain uses so much energy that when you have this exciting stress of what your mind is happening and when you have the experience and the techniques, the training, you can use less of this energy. And one thing you notice about say people in general, like they choose the comfort. So what this there's this event called Tough Mudder and what is this more of a group event and got what guys are doing, they're combining with females is that creating like a social group and it's like a controlled challenge. And it's not a challenge when you do that.   Oh, I'm dirty. It's like a city folk thing where you want to avoid this type of behavior. You want to go out deep into nature and you can do yourself and suppose there's a ton of white nighting happening at these events. So just go out cold approach is your teacher and also the Wim Hof method. What it is is you breathe deeply and then you let loose slowly and you do this about 30 times and you could go ahead and research other videos about it. But that's typically what it is. Thanks for listening.


What's going on everyone Sam here with late in sports cards ripping two boxes of 22 tops dynasty formula 1 racing hobby for Terencey So good luck here Terence. Let's see what we got in here for you, buddy Two dynasties 8 of 10 Kevin Magnuson for haas two color two color two color on the nasty patches Congrats on that one. Nice one there. Congrats on that Kevin Magnuson and we've got five of 10 Carlos signs with the biotech Patch nice one there for Ferrari Congrats on that Ferrari very nice There you go at Terence. Very nice, buddy Thanks as always for the support my man. We'll get those right out to you


Hi everyone, Joe for jaspyscasebreaks.com coming at you with 2020 Panini limited football seven box half-case pick your team at number six so we did a number of Three different random number blocks, so here's the team list first of all. There you go. There's the team sheet right there And we've got the Chargers bangles Cowboys number block It's uploaded in the separate video. I think Jason actually did this one a couple nights ago Then we've got the Miami Philadelphia Green Bay number block It's also in a separate video and we just recently did the Tampa Bay Pittsburgh blah blah blah number block For that one. All right, let's actually keep these next to me over here All right, here's the second half of that limited case. We opened up On two three four five six seven now we opened I don't know. I don't maybe shawnded Maybe Jason did this pop this open And let's see what we got good luck everybody We'll go through a bunch of orders after this and we'll keep adding to the schedule that's in the chat Keep an eye on that two base cards Two base on the bottom We collect all the base cards right here the Homes Higbee Mark Ingram right here to 149 And behind uh, oh and behind that is Cole Comet rookie phenoms relic to 25 That's going to be for the bears. That'll be That'll be Gabe with the bears last bottom mojo. All right behind Joey Bosa's a redemption and behind Drew Brees is Oh material monikers five out of five Tyler Lockett Two color patch in auto that goes to Dayton and the Seattle Seahawks Got the Seahawks straight up now to fives and under get the old train whistle nice All aboard the big hit express Nice and the redemption is gonna be Tyler Johnson rookie patch autographs ruby spotlight for Tampa Bay And Tampa Bay is a number of lock team The Tyler Johnson Super Bowl champion Going to Tampa Bay zero And that'll be for Robert ronkel nice start next box I hear your baby all cards shipped though. So you'll get all of this I think they just Alex Smith just got released recently. I think Is he on the market? Are they may he might be released? There's Deshaun Jackson to 75. I think eagles did let him go And that reveals Joey Bosa relic 55 out of 79 chargers five charger a number block team chargers five Ryan Kason and behind kenya and drake Is an autograph it's terrell lewis 88 out of 99 rookie autograph for the rams. That'll be for That's a rams or a number block team. So rams eight Is going to be for john still own kind of hard to see with the reflection, but Behind bobby wagner is zach moss buffalo Three color patch an autograph 21 out of 49 Buffalo is a number block team part of that miami group So buffalo one Donovan murphy there you go donovan. It's pretty good too Oh, okay. Okay. So wait. So alex smith is released, right seven punk. He said we'll we'll take him in chicago I don't know why they're still tying their tying themselves to uh to mitzsche bisky, but Mariota is a free agent too. I don't know if the I don't think the raiders are going to be interested in Well, I think they're interested in re-signing him as a backup, but I think he's too too expensive And he did get a chance to play a game or so So it looks like he still has it. So I think He may find himself in a in a good tip in a different situation What about what about mariota in chicago? And just open open battle between trabisky and mariota And as larry fits gerald, he'll reveal a another zach moss 51 out of 75 And that's another one for number one donovan murphy Buffalo Nice starting your zach moss pc to 49. There's baker mayfield Revealing a limitless relic aj brown seven out of 99 Yeah, so you upon the likes the idea of maybe mariota in chicago needs uh He gets a deets a little bit of weapons around and that defense is so good. There's philip rivers There's anias williams 11 out of 75 We'll make up for any little mistakes that mariota would make All right, limited ink anias williams 11 out of 75 josh morah With the cardinals cardinals getting jj watt That's interesting. That's gonna be an interesting great defensive front there Maybe good enough to give JJ watt a little bit of rest even though he probably doesn't want it, but He kind of stretch out his career a little bit two-year deal What if the uh, what if the niners take to the niners take alex smith back We've got miles sanders To 75 and behind him is cam acres 34 out of 199 pieces of jersey Going to rams number four rams four Is john stalone with rams four Asra, what breaks are open right now? Just check out our website jasby's case breaks.com all of them except for the new releases tomorrow kubernetes Just go to jasby's case breaks.com Reveals a anthony jennings 71 out of 199 Patriots that'll be for karen steele with her pats beyond baker is jordan love jersey and autograph 21 out of 60 j heart For green bay green bay is a number block team so green bay one Wow, there's another one for donovan murphy that one spot hitting three more boxes to go All right behind drew breeze should be the relic. There you go drew breeze to 49 and it is it's antonio ganny golden 190 out of 199 simon picked up the washington football team straight up Stafford behind stafford is a redemption Behind patrick mohomes is an autograph that will be logan wilson 149 out of 199 And that'll be for since natty And that's a number block team since natty nine Will be for eric eric s and the redemption is Is chase young nice rookie patch autographs chase young for simon Picked up the washington football team straight up Definitely an excellent game wrecker chase young Two boxes to go Last team specifically about the three-point shooting their number one in the nba he said All right behind kendall fuller to 149 is just kidding dobbin 25 out of 199 That is for datan and the purple birds Kendall fuller will go to simon Austin eckler Will reveal a nice patch an autograph loviska chanel jr. 52 out of 75 Jaguars are a number block team part of that tampa bay pittsburgh group and jake odham has number two There you go jake And behind stiffon digs is a brown 42 out of 99 donovan peoples jones Jason parson's with the browns Yeah, just kidding dom. Do you like that hopes up? That's a good one and the last box of limited football ladies and gentlemen That's a more football on in the store. Check it out. All right behind michael thomas to 15 4 out of 15 for the saints It's a niners relic 100 out of 199 brandon. I Keeping it 100 that'll go to zero san francisco zero Is robert runkel with san francisco zero ryan kason with the 4 out of 15 michael thomas nice low number on that one All right behind garoppolo Is a jersey an autograph. It's ronde barber 26 out of 49 It's got it. That's some excellent penmanship there by ronde barber Buckoneers are a number block team. So it goes to buccaneers six tampa bay six the super bowl champs It's roi with the number six there you go roi And behind tyler void is jaylon regor three color patch and autograph 49 out of 49 eagles are a number block team part of the miami group And miami nine or philadelphia nine that is Is jake odum last bot mojo there you go jake jake jake jake There you have it seven box break 2020 panini limited football that was pick your team number six Keep an eye out on the store for more and i'll see you next time for the next one jaspy's case breaks.com


Hey everybody. Oh, so much active conversation going on, it's great. Thank you Matt. So I was going to call us right around 2.40, so we wanted to leave time for the groups to tell us their futures that they came up with. So, just any group want to go first? Anyone group like ready? Yeah? Alright, here we go. Yeah, structurally. To back up. We spent a lot of time generating ideas which led to a little less time actually stabilizing what our world was, but so we had all kinds of ideas up to and including a lot of stuff around brain uploads or human brain interfaces and the singularity and stuff like that. And because we also didn't have a particular theme, so we tried to, we were trying to zero in on a theme. We ultimately somewhat unsurprisingly zeroed in on centralization versus decentralization and somewhat unsurprisingly especially considering where we are and the fact that I work at OTI which has done a lot of mesh networking work focused on a world that's very mesh network centric. And so the basic arc of what we're talking about is a new mesh networking technology that actually to try and just sort of create a plausible story driver. Let's say Apple invents first much like it invented Wi-Fi and it offers a simple peer to peer phone to phone mode of communication.  Mesh network that quickly, because it allows you to save money, other people competing develop a similar feature. It spreads across Android. It spreads across other operating systems until you start seeing these very large area networks, but because the wireless is somewhat constrained, but there is still a move toward this also a political social move away from the big platforms because they are not trusted in towards less media communication. You start to see more people moving to the cities to be part of bigger networks. So exacerbating sort of the like rural underserving and exacerbating the growth of mega city slums so people can be part of bigger meshes. And that's about as far as we got. What am I, what am I missing? I mean, we, we had a lot of, we were talking a lot about like, are we imagining a magic technology? Like one of the, we went as far as thinking imagine a brain computer interface where we can via quantum entanglement instantaneously communicate with any other brain on the planet encrypted. But then we, then we pulled it back. So maybe we should have gone further, but, but anyway, that's, that's where how far we got. Anyone have any questions for this group before we go to another group? I just, yeah, yeah, rich. Okay. Any other questions for this group? Awesome. All right. Thank you for that. Any, another group want to go next? Chris is raising hand. Allison has a mic by you. This is great because I've been accused of speaking softly. Now have a microphone. So, all right, I'm going to do my best here and thank you for. So, yeah, our group took a little bit of a different approach that we did not make it so far as to imagine any possible futures really. However, we did discuss a number of issues and possibilities. So that the center of our, of our fabulous collage here is a question or an a statement. So the statement is we wanted to, we talked about a number of issues. We talked about access and measurement censorship and what did we want to really unpack. And what we landed on was that we wanted to talk about technology that influence, that influences or can change social equality. And the question that we used to frame that is what is inequality? What equality problem or problems are we trying to solve with technology? And then we sort of brainstormed for a little bit. And then we sort of just did some quiet reflection individually and came up with individual post-its. Just completely random. So anything we wanted to write down. And then we categorized them and they sort of talked through them. And that was when some of the real interesting conversations started to happen. And so then we did, like I said, we didn't really land on a lot of outcomes or potential futures. But what we did do, and we can put it down if you want. No one could read this from far away. But it is helpful to see how we framed it, I think. We just took individual pieces of paper and then put them together into groups and tried to categorize those. So we have a few things around technology, a few things around unpacking what social equity or social equality actually might mean. We have an impact or influence category and a personal identity category. So in respect of technology, we have some things like that maybe there's alternative power systems that are invented that we don't need to rely on batteries or solar power even for what is currently a highly electrically charged environment and consumes a lot of natural resources to do the tech that we want. There's a note here about what does a persistent data storage system look like that doesn't use power, that doesn't require batteries. Someone is considered sort of just possible things like surveillance is in the future underestimated. And quantum computation is not really considered. Growth of data, data science undermines science as we know it. That was an interesting one. And on the flip side, so those are about sort of tech specifically when they have a whole separate thing about personal identity which kind of ties in to some biotech ideas. Like what if our technology allows people to understand us and allows us to frame who we are and how our world sees us and how we see the world. That there may be a one-to-one relationship between what we say and what we hear. Personality tweaking, so this gets into the biohacking. What if anyone has the right to be transhuman? When you're 18, what if you're given the source code of the bios in your brain? You're born sterile and you must buy a kit in order to reproduce or procreate. This is getting weird. Life becomes too safe. People require artificial challenges for entertainment or amusement or interest or work. That does get into the idea of what is the impact or influence that a future set of technologies might give us. And in this conversation we talked about a lot of different things like universal free access, do the impacts of a future technology set of technologies. Truly enable us to stop and not have to work to think about the things that we would do if we were not connected to systems that require us to think about what our future looks like and what we do to be productive. Basic income, is that something that actually happens? What does education look like in that context? The posted note here said it was framed around MOOCs for example and how online education is distributed now. But in a world where we don't necessarily have to have that outcome, what does education actually look like? Then some questions here. What about cultural applications of technology? We touched on that just at the very end because we were thinking mostly about work related things with respect to technology. And then we also, yes, thank you for reminding. We also talked about ownership and who owns what? Who are the beneficiaries of these technologies? Who owns the benefits and what are those benefits? And then finally we unpacked this unpacking social equity or inequality. A number of things, you know, a question, is equality even possible? And we talked about a lot of things around the context of pursuing equality or equity. As the context of equality or inequality, which of those matters? The context of equality or inequality matters and it's potentially different in lots of situations. We have to consider both diversity and equality. And inequality between countries or between populations or groups is likely to increase in any case we think. We talked a bit about marginalized communities and this was an interesting insight about marginalized communities now used depend on and build closed loop systems in order to survive and communicate in closed environments. But this also then, so this enables them to just do, have basic survival and communication. But it also creates sub-marginalized groups within those communities as well. So the pursuit of freedom essentially also creates marginalization. We can stop there. Yeah, I'm rambling, but that's a lot. No. Okay, we have two more groups I think, so who wants to go? You want to go? Peter? Okay. Thank you. So we were sitting at a table with Matt and Rich and so we could not talk about measurement. So we talked about measurement in 2050 and we never quite agreed whether we were talking about measuring the internet or measuring all things. But we agreed that measurement in 2050, the world that sounded good to us, involved measuring from everywhere and measuring a lot of things. The issue of privacy, at least if our discussion is anything to be believed, won't be resolved in the next 30 years. But one thing that I thought was quite nice that we agreed that we should get, we dreamed of a world in 2050 that had acceptance of data without judgment, that as you accepted the data and measurement and observation were first class citizens in political discourse, which Rich pointed out that data by itself is insufficient and we need ubiquitous and diverse open analyses, diverse analyses, not just like what's the right way of doing it, but instead a large set of open analyses so you can see a bunch of them. And again, some people said privacy would obviously be respected. Some people said privacy would obviously be irrelevant. And I just had to throw out the Transparent Society Mutually Assured Destruction Scenario for Privacy because it's fun to talk about as a horrifying boundary in between it being respected or irrelevant. But then we talked about an annealment of diverse analyses, as truth synthesis, or synthesis at least, as this annealment of the diverse analyses of ubiquitous data. And we wanted claims to be explicitly connected to the annealment, then the analyses, then the data, then the measurement. And by having that explicit connection and giving everybody the ability to do that deep dive and the democratization of that ability to do the deep dive was a big thing that we did. Of course, we wanted these claims to drive shared understanding, not necessarily shared agreement. And then I hijacked things a little bit because I realized that as well as having Matt and Richard at the table, we had three people who several, I'll say years of their lives, have actually had as their job to ubiquitously measure, we know the data, make decisions about whether it's good and figure out what problems. I mean, that's literally what Nathan, Stephen and Rich do or have done in their careers. They have their service level agreements as a result of their service level obligations, which come from their service level indicators, which come from their metrics. So in a world in the future where we have metrics for everything, how does this process work today and how would it work in the future? And so we ended up going down a rabbit hole of how this process works today and how it could be, how it could move to a larger system in the future because it turns out we had people at the table doing it today, so we may as well figure out how it works at all because maybe it's unevenly distributed. And that is what we talked about, about measurement in the future. Okay, my group's gonna chip in. So we spoke about what access means, access to information. So we assume that everyone's connected, so connectivity isn't a problem and we're just talking about now the information. How do we access information now, passwords that no one can remember, security or hint, the hint questions that everyone knows answers to and in the future it would obviously be biometrics. And what type of access? So we're gonna chip babies. Like how babies need birth certificates when they're born, they're going to have chips inserted. Sounds kind of awful. It's like an injection, it's like a vaccination. So we're gonna chip babies and that will give you access to a whole load, you can infer our personal information. Who has access to information now? So we have governments that have access, we have corporates all aggregate access and we have our own individual data or data subjects have their own personal data which is limited access at various levels. In the future we don't necessarily have governments but governance and we have complete access of data by an individual so I will have access to my data but I will choose to give out permission for my network, friends and family, to have access to my data that will be tiered access and I will control who knows how much of what and it's kind of like a two-way handshake I suppose. The governance, whoever who governs us would have access to this data but whenever they use it there needs to be logging of all access to our data. There will be self or voluntary controls and transparent access of the individual's data. We did talk about how our own data creates value at the moment and maybe we need to get paid for others using the data but then we don't have any corporates in the future so there's no value addition there. Then we also spoke about how your data architecture may impact your physical architecture. So in a shared environment, in a shared space even though I have now got my tiered access and I know who can access what, in a shared space I might see someone else's data if I walk into a friend's house I might see certain things that I can then sell. So then we spoke of the possibility of having sort of your data architecture impacting your physical architecture so you kind of figure out within your home what is public and private. Kind of, sort of. Yeah, so we also talked of a world where the whole world is sort of quantified like every aspect of the world is sort of almost always measured or quantified like there is data about everything so your movement, your interaction whatever happens in the world there is data to it and that whoever has the power whether the governance would be able to access all the data from that perspective but as an individual maybe you have data that pertains to you that you contribute to the system but maybe the other more powerful governance structures may have access to a lot more data than ourselves and that might become the future because of more scaled ways of surveying the entire world almost. Anyone have questions for the backer? No? Okay, well thanks everyone for participating in this exercise I don't know if anyone has any like wrap up thoughts from this session that they want to share? Anything? Brain story is fun. I hope it was fun. The future sounds like it has a lot of directions it could go but I don't know I liked a lot of the really interesting like themes and insights from across the groups so I really appreciated hearing all that. On that note we are into our final break before our final session so stand up stretch get some coffee there's snacks in the back if you haven't had an MLab cupcake please have one and then we will reconvene in about 10, 15 minutes.


course managing editorial staff. Could you tell us more about this program? Sure. So the George Washington University in Washington DC has a master's of professional studies and it's very practical. I actually received my master's degree from this very program in 2010. But it's a great program because it covers all aspects of publishing. So for someone for me who's in scientific technical medical publishing, I was exposed to book publishing and to trade publishing and to design, to marketing, things like that. So it was a really comprehensive look at publishing. So I think it's an excellent program. The program covers copyright, it covers marketing, book, design, production, editorial, finance. So a huge range of things. So I became involved. I was invited last year to teach this course, which was a big honor. And it was actually a lot of fun. It was a lot of work, but it was it was also a lot of fun because you're meeting younger professionals who are really excited about being in publishing and you get to be part of their journey. And then you can also your resource for them. And hopefully in the future, you can help them, you know, if they have, you know, sort of be a mentor. And it's sort of a fun place to be at the stage in my career to be able to help people, you know, sort of as I was help myself previously. So but the course I teach is eight weeks. And we're talking about managing editorial staff and it really focuses on STM publishing. So it's managing editorial staff from that perspective, because I think that's a great example of an editorial team. And so there's a lot of concepts that you can convey about managing staff from the workflow aspect of it to the ethical aspects, things that you have to keep track of. Um, I try to keep it very practical. So we have them, you know, write job descriptions and try to imagine if they're a managing editor, how are they going to orient their new editorial assistant on the first day, those types of things. So they can start putting themselves in that position of if I was managing an editorial staff, how would I, how would I handle this? So it's, it's a fun course to teach. Yeah.