While having money conversation with your partner Miss Sim Dunton, it's especially important not only is having the conversation important but having it before you get married is even more important. Before you join forces as one under the law, you and your soon-to-be spouse need to get on the same page. This includes discussing how you will manage your finances and creating boundaries for spending, debt and more. The Hakimi Divorce Saga has many tentacles and while we await updates on the rape allegations against him, the repercussions of his wife's attempts to divide all of the footballers' assets equally seem to have backfired. So tonight we're asking how important is financial transparency in marriage? Please let's hear what you have to say. Remember you can join the conversation, send us an SMS or what tap to<PHONE_NUMBER>3 you could also tweet at us as we show Africa one with the hashtag we show. How important is it to be financially transparent in marriage? I think it's very important. I guess so, just so that there's clarity because we've had cases of either separation and divorce or in cases in our Nigerian case where the man dies and you realize that none of his property is in your name or like there's no will so either his family members come and take all his assets. So I think it's something to discuss because you also want to, if you have a kid out of the marriage, you also want to be able to plan for them in case of uncertainties to say if we separate or if one person dies, what's going to happen to our children. So I think it's a very important topic to discuss in as much as I feel like me as a, well maybe when I acquire more assets, I think I will be transparent but I don't think I have so much with transparent about, you know, so, yeah. Okay, Jenny. You know how we've had so many stories about people who haven't been transparent. The man dies and you hear that he had quite a lot of money that even his own wife didn't know about and there's probably she has to do back and forth with the bank to make sure that the money is released but then it's like during the time when he was alive, they were just leaving what a normal comfortable life for me why, I mean life could have been better for them and the questions I would like to ask is why because I still date, I still don't understand the thought process for why people do things like that. I remember having a conversation with somebody about this topic when it came out and then someone said that what if people have been hurt in the past by other people and that's why when they get into marriage everyone is trying to guard themselves, your guards are up so you're working with past trauma, someone hurt you before someone cheated you has come due of your money and you don't want the same thing to happen to you again. So that's why people lie and you have sometimes women who actually lie about these things as well where the women who have lands, they have houses, they probably have like a house that they've rented to other people and people are actually legit paying rent into our accounts and our husband doesn't know about this and men also do the same thing as well and then if you actually check it, it's either probably when she was growing up she realized that her dad probably mistreated her mom and he wasn't taking care of her or he had kids out of wedlock that she did not even know about so going through something like that when you get to your own family you're like yeah affliction must not rise the second time I don't want this to happen to me so I have to protect myself if my husband decides to cheat or he decides to have a family outside or if he dies, I don't know the situation whereby his brothers and sisters and entire family members will come and take all his properties and I'll be left with nothing so I'll rather just do my thing on the side and he knows nothing about it you also have the men as well who are doing that so in situations like that the question I ask is what's the point of marriage if you can't fully trust your partner and if you can't be 100% honest because to me this reads as being very dishonest and I don't buy into that idea of things I mean growing up I know that we all came up with different upbringing that's why I say sometimes people's action right now is as a result of what they've been through now the home where I come from my father would tell you my money is your mother's money so my mom tells you oh daddy bought this cloth for you my father was saying it was from both of us that kind of thing so you know that oh we don't hide things from each other when somebody gives him money you know that but I've seen my mom sometimes now my mom can tilt towards the a little bit extravagance where she would just buy a bag and then she would hide it in my room and I'm like why are you hiding this because I don't want your father to know that I bought a bag wow too unlike with but you carry this bag to church he will eventually find out so that you're going to see that she hasn't thought about it yet that she will still open up to him but she has to come up with something now she cannot tell him and probably because he probably just bought her a bag and now he's like okay where is this bag coming from and again I'm like but few people say your money is the same so where did that money come from so there are a lot of things to unpack there because I'm looking at her like they work together so this is very funny because they work together everything is together it's not like it was before when she had her own business he had his own business and he finally decided okay you know what let's join the business together so now that the business is together she really cannot buy things without him knowing but then when she had her own on the side she could easily say oh I bought this I bought that that kind of thing and he would probably just overlook it but my father cannot buy anything and my mother would not my mom is very inquisitive my dad is also inquisitive but sometimes he can just let it slide women will always be women but at the end of the day what am I saying this growing up and it has kind of like shaped the way I see marriage and when it comes to finances I can't lie to my husband about money I should be very open you should know how much I earn you should know how much I'm bringing in you know how much I'm saving and that's why sometimes there are also these questions where or these debates okay should you as a couple have a joint account I believe it is important to have joint accounts but I will still have my own personal account because I'm one person I'm always going to invest I'm always going to save I'm always going to have money to my name and I also expect you to have your own on the side but when it comes to catering for what we have as a family in terms of rent in terms of the children's school phase taking care of the household and different things then that money is together so it's like joints I have my own money if I decide you know what I think I've invested enough I want to use this money to buy a land I want to use money to buy a house in my name I should be allowed to do that I don't even necessarily have to like say oh I want you just to let you know as my partner that oh this is what I want to do and just bring you along at the same time I can't even just go ahead to buy a house without talking to my partner and I don't expect my partner to buy a house or a land without letting me know it is like we have to come together as a couple and that's why your partner that's why your couple was supposed to come together to make those decisions as one Jennifer is saying these things from you so I'm an engine thank you let's hear from you well Jennifer has said most of it obviously from this story that there was a trust issue we haven't gone deep into the story we are just saying how we feel about these things so yes I buy into the whole idea of having a joint account for the family as a family and having individual accounts because I'm a very individual person so I would love to also have that personal space where but I don't have to lie to my partner about how much I'm making or what is in their account or do you understand there has to be some level of access because you are now one so I think most of these things bow down to the level of trust and understanding that they had from the very beginning now if you don't trust yourself from the very beginning there's no way you can even trust that even that account you will now find people because I've had friends I have friends who are married and I've seen a lot of them I have a friend who has kids and just like Jennifer said she buys bags and buys stuff designer stuff and she's going to hide in the kids room and she's not hiding in the kids room and you're like why are you acting like a thief in your house and then she's like oh that she doesn't want her husband to question her to ask her where she got the money from so people have a lot of dodgy for different reasons and you know with the new way marriages go now a lot of things have gone wrong there's a lot of lack of trust a lot of lack of transparency and all these things are the things that poke holes in the marriage and cost you to come up with an end result like this because really I've never heard of a story like this each time I hear of marriages nowadays I hear new things like brand new things I know a lot of people I see a lot of the comments that have gone on a lot of people are in praise like oh you brought out the new but guess what this just shows how deeply rooted the damage within the family and marriage system has gone and has eaten a lot of people that would have this kind of comments are single a lot of them are also married because they've experienced gone through different experiences even within their marriage but guess what every marriage is not the same because you lacked trust or you had a misunderstanding or you did not even get you were not transparent with your partner or your husband or as at then and then it costs certain issues in your marriage does not translate that everybody's marriage has to go the same way I believe trust is a major criteria in any marriage and if you cannot be open with something as money because money is the root of all evil money is the major issue why a lot of things go wrong so if you cannot even trust each other and be transparent that means your marriage might just as well be a sham that's just it because we have to be honest with ourselves I understand the story and really he brought he threw a lot of light because if I was a guy I would probably say wow but guess what it also shows a lot of things because there's the side where there's a part he played and there's a part she played they both played a part in getting because why would you get married to someone and not be open that's one if you have an issue like this sign a prenup there's so many other ways to go you know but I'll allow us to get into the into the full story I've looked at this story from different angles right now I was saying to you NJ I said this guy started making money when he was 17 he was really young so if at that time his mum was a custodian of his well so to speak understandable but then for you to have decided to get married to someone I mean what then is marriage if you are not now ready to let it all so does it mean that he had already anticipated that they were going to get to a point of divorce and he didn't want to take any chances and he's like you know what let all this money remain with her is that what he thought on the girls part as well did she think I mean from the full story there are rape allegations against him and cheating and whatnot so I wanted to believe that she asked for that because she was frustrated it was out of frustration so it's not as if she woke up one morning and said I'm not doing anything things happened that got her to that point and we know how this guy this footballer then we know how they can be they live a very extravagant lifestyle and then they have a lot of women at their beck and call and there's all of that going on so maybe she probably couldn't deal with all of that and that's why she got to the point of filing for a divorce so I don't think she filed for a divorce because she wanted to get it's also possible you marry a model what are you expecting most footballers who marry models most of the footballers marry models at the end of the day just like I was telling you when he married her he probably he was just making money but nobody knew who he was as opposed to marrying a model or dating a model most of them go after models what do you think models what do you think is the lifestyle of a model if not constant provision and luxury that's what they're used to the models we know from showroom you're going to dinner, you're going to drink you're going to socialize what were you expecting so you got married to someone like that and you did not dig deep into your relationship to root it properly before you got married then you got married to a model you think she will spend the rest of her life with you and not want to go away with something to continue her life that's what you get so that's what I said from the very beginning that it's a two way street and he was trying to play because he was also leveraging on her and where she was coming from and who she was for him not to trust that from the very beginning he knew what he was into he knew what he was into so it wasn't even love in the first day so the two of them were in for the deal and the deal didn't work out for one person unfortunately because one person was smarter than the other is that really being smart well we've seen situations where I can't remember the celebrity who had that was also in charge of her finances and then she came out and she started crying Britney Spears her dad is not giving her access to these things so these things can go anyway so right now a lot of people are saying oh he's being smart and all of that and that's because we've heard so many stories of where there is divorce and the woman gets like maybe 50 or 40% of his assets and so I kind of understand why people would be so excited that it feels like he has smouted he has smouted her but in another in another angle it could have gone wrong for him his mom can come up one day and say you know what this entire money I want to use it our parents have been a smart enough someone said on social media because you don't have a Nigeria mom because anything anything could have happened and this man is not a sense so he was being accused of rape now that's one secondly there's so many layers to this particular story you how did he get to that point where you were being accused of rape is either you were in the presence of cheating or you are cheated and that's why he got to that point and personally if I was her or the wife and my husband gets accused of rape there's no way I want to support you do you understand I would rather keep mute and watch it play out and see what happens but you've been accused of a crime now if the court rules against it and says okay we've done all our investigation he didn't rape this person there's no evidence and stuff like that and that's where it dies but did you cheat though that's another thing so there are lots of things to unpack here and yeah it's also possible that she decided to see this as an avenue to make extra cash for herself and this also brings me to another question like people who are getting married these days what are the conversations that you have do you understand I dated someone who was not comfortable with having conversations around money and I'm comfortable talking about money you see me and money please you ask me how much I'm earning I will tell you what are you saying what's your investment I will let you know and bring it down what do you spend in the months this is what I spend how much I have for me Selena I'm just like my mother when they shop I like shopping I have this particular money that I allocate monthly and this is what I spend my money on these are the things that I like so you know so if you're not comfortable because I remember I was doing a business then and I think he bought something for his sibling I'm just like business is business guy you have to pay me and he was very uncomfortable with the fact that I was trying to remind him and I don't want to remind you for me I would rather not remind you I want you to do it on your own but he got very uncomfortable around that particular topic when I asked for a loan and he lost me money I said we will pay you back next two weeks that next two weeks I will pay him back take your money so that you know that you can trust me with your money and I can also trust you with money if we eventually get married we know that there is trust when it comes to our finances nobody is lying about anything or hiding anything but yeah he wasn't that type of person but yeah this is the craziest divorce of all time and people can't decide who to support in this case I met Christina at a party and they really hit it off they ended up getting married even though she was 30 years younger than him they were happily married for 20 years but then Christina decided that she wanted to get a divorce but when she went to her lawyer she was shocked to hear that she was already divorced from Gabriel 20 years ago and this is because 4 months after their marriage the couple went to the Dominican Republic for a vacation and Gabriel divorced her there because that's the only country where one party can file for a divorce without informing the other party he says he did this because he knew one day Christina would divorce him and try to take all his money this episode is the episode of May Wan Shelley those crazy things truly be happening I mean look at this first of all these are the issues why did she marry him now where you know that you are 30 years younger than him she married her father why did he marry her why did he marry each other he obviously proposed something to her exactly so he didn't have his promises it depends on his proposition baby wow look at that why is he trying to divorce her without because he knew that one day she would wake up knowing that she was young and he was going to die soon why marry in the first place why marry this is the right reason he married so that he would have a wife for as long as possible because guess what this was premeditated because 4 months after your wedding 4 months they were married for 30 years 20 years 20 years no but this happened 30 years later she is 30 years younger she is 30 years younger meaning that for 19 6 months 8 months they were not married they were partners that's the annoying part do you know how bad that is that's evil he was just getting marriage privileges without being married and she thought that she was married and it took her 20 years to realize okay I don't want to be married to this guy any longer for whatever reason she was loyal for those 20 years she was with him for those 20 years what a loyal but she was with him for those 20 years knowing after 20 years that okay do you know what she came to a point I've given this 19 years of my life 19 plus years of my life I'm tired I want to go do something or I want to get married to someone else or this guy is frustrating me having issues within the marriage without 19 years 19 years ago people should just sign in printouts I don't know why people are so against printouts printouts should actually become a norm that way your money is secure you can live your life normally I don't want to get my disease that is at stake if you guys eventually decide to go your separate ways let's say you'll be married and your chest will be beating your heart will be beating very fast everyday and that's why you have models that are very secretive with their lines you've seen this thing play out a lot of times so you're just like let me know myself where does it mean the wait to go it's not the wait to go full transparency I don't know why people have watered down married so bad now it's now as if we're just getting married so that we say that we're husband and wife because why is somebody your husband or your wife and then you go ahead to divorce the person with the premeditation that's depressing my divorce you 20 years later that's his that's unspeakable you're not even happy being that's unspeakable actually no there's this story Jennifer we're talking about the one from the I Said What I Said podcast where so this lady right young lady she just got married to this guy and so I don't know what it was I think her father had some sort of investment that he was supposed to pay out to her at a certain age and then the father paid out the money I can't remember the exact figure but I think it was something about 10 million euros something like that it was way more than that I think it was about 30 million it was a lot of money actually a lot of money and then her husband her husband came and said oh look we don't have money to pay rents right so baby what do we do we don't have money so what happened was she tagged it as a gift from her dad and I think they had an apartment where they were living but the guy wanted to move into a new apartment so what happened was the apartment he saw that was very nice wasn't up to was way more than his budget but because he didn't have up to that amount he decided to go for another apartment so now she was telling us so she actually has the money but she didn't tell her husband that she actually has this amount of money which is a huge sum of money because if you have that just imagine having like 30 million naira and let's say the apartment would probably cost them let's say 25 he wasn't buying let's say 8 million per annum and his budget was actually what 7 million and she said oh that she couldn't contribute to it because she hadn't told him that she had that amount of money I don't know if she eventually mentioned I don't remember how he found out or something like that and he was very shocked like oh so you had this amount of money and we were looking for an apartment we got this apartment that we both love but we had to go for this second option because of that and she's like yeah but she didn't think she didn't think she needed to contribute or give him out of her money okay if you're just tuned in to her ladies night out and were discussing the Hakimi's divorce saga and speaking to financial transparency in marriage please let's hear what you have to say remember you can join the conversation send us an sms or whatsapp to<PHONE_NUMBER>3 you could also tweet at us at weishuafika1 with the hashtag weishu our phone line is now open please call us on 070-2500 7749 okay so we're talking about the okay so you hear strange stories every other day for me I feel I don't know the full story or the full circumstance that led to this I think first of all I think it was wrong for her not to have said anything at that time because it still goes back to what I said it's a trust issue so I don't see if the two of you have like a joint account and maybe the money in the account was not enough and you have your private account there is no big deal in saying darling I can help you out with that you don't even necessarily have to tell him I think the eyebrow was raised when you did have the money during that same time and you did nothing so it speaks to a whole lot of things not just trust even the love you question it because it's like since someone dying or hungry right in front of you you have like two place of food do you want to drown in the food she said she didn't see the need see it boils down to the same thing she didn't have any reason if you don't see the need it already speaks to avoiding your relationship look is it house that both of you are going to live in and raise the family tell me you borrowed the money if you don't want to declare tell me you lent it from someone but it still goes down to trust how can you get such money and not declare even if you don't declare the full amount of money you don't understand right now you have to declare now 5000 is small money to me do you understand but if I'm in a relationship and my father sends me 5000 and I think I'll just easy for this and then that's it it's not that you're going to the money is mine I don't expect my partner to be greedy now if greed comes in then we have a problem I don't expect you to be greedy and just think and that's what I'm saying now if greed comes into play if greed comes into the picture then I know that I have it then I know that we have a problem and something we need to sort out but this woman said that she didn't see anything to it and she might have I feel like she might have also had the opinion you know what the man's provider of the family so she thinks yourself and accepts his he was having an issue at that time he couldn't come up with the money it was above his budget and he needed help so they found somewhere within the project what happened to supporting your other half in marriage it's not boyfriend and girlfriend marriage I also had people I saw people who actually came from this angle now him being the sole provider that's fine and you're probably not already used to supporting him in anything you let him do everything that's fine as well if that's the dynamic if that's the dynamic that's fine that's understandable I think mine is the fact that you got something I think it is what sharing because as partners I feel like you're supposed to share everything for everything we share partner oh why not it makes sense we don't know now what the angle I'm coming from is based on what the babe has said the story she has given so I am going to judge based on what she has given I'm not going to assume that oh she's being greedy he was being greedy she never turned herself as greedy she said she was very that everything she did was from an innocent place that she didn't know honestly that she was doing anything wrong and that's fine and for you not to know that there is actually a gap in your marriage then it's something to actually discuss about you don't necessarily have to cry are you saying now that if you get married your money is his money my money is not his money his money is not my money we said that at the beginning of the conversation that we'll have a joint and then people still have their individual one for example if you're going now your girls for drinks for Christ's sake well sometimes they'll pay for you to stand you would use your money now if he sends you money if he says baby okay take the card of the joint account and take money from that's okay he's having my own individual money doesn't stop me from asking yes please I'm going to buy a new wig you buy a new wig because I need to go shopping and he says okay how much is it if I tell you oh the clothes I'm buying is 300K and he said I can only afford 200 anywhere I bring what if he comes to you they will why can't you give your husband money I will give you I grew up in Nigeria I think the man has a sole provider so what is fine even that mentality has a sole provider that means that you cannot help I can help, I can support I'm just saying that it's not as if he was in darned he won't how is it a darned he has a budget when the house you want is above your budget they might not love the house as well darling let's look for what is within your budget another one is totally fine the fact that we are having this conversation already shows that there is a problem in the marriage why would your husband I'm not talking about your boyfriend your boyfriend I thought you deal with your own problem and deal with mine of course it's your husband you've made a different commitment at that point so I don't see any the fact that you don't see anything in it in helping out when you can afford to help is a big issue maybe show these money for something else I don't think so you are working with assumption let's talk about declaring debts because a lot of people actually go into marriages I know a story of a couple who got together now and the greatest issue they had in their marriage was money and the person said he would literally wake up on some days to a text message from his friend's younger sister saying his wife had bought he of ex-wazi amount from her and she's been owing for a while and she's been trying to reach her she can't reach her there was also a story of how one day he was having his afternoon nap on the weekend and then somebody who sat at their gates and there's some guy that pulls up and says your wife is owing money blah blah blah the one that even killed me was they were having lunch at a co-hotel buffet on a Sunday after church and while they were sitting somebody walks up to their table and says you idiot and he's like hey that's my wife you're talking about your wife she has not told you so imagine a situation like this he has briefly discussed but if he has now he should support that's bad financial see it is terrible but if he can accommodate he should support for him to complain he's obviously not accommodated he's not working for him he's not working for him it wasn't once, it wasn't twice it was recurrence so what I see is that she has an issue and he tried to help us so now let's even give out some story guess what he starts with her and he's like see I've had enough of this can you please tell me everybody that you're owing money and he created an excel sheet and okay in total we're owing 7 million Air Abbey oh yeah this is how we're going to do it in 10 months we're going to pay off this debt so month one we're paying 700K which one is the most pressing one which one is the one that is hooking you here that if they see you outside now let's start from that one I thought that was a very calm he's an amazing human being so that's where we talk about supports that's where the supports come so imagine that kind of situation see where all human beings you will be tired you finish doing that thing and then you now realize that there's even still more outside where all that research has declared to you come on I sense the fact that she has bad financial habits culture there's also the fact that she's a liar because she wasn't being transparent and she didn't tell him so he had to find out from outsiders I remember when a guy was asking me out one time and during the period of trying to know him I realized that this person is bad with money and I thought myself never I can never in this life be with somebody who is bad with money it was going to be a problem is we have to now we're going to fight so there's no need carrying on because there are little things and I feel like people don't pay attention to these things there are some times that people give off these things what if two of you are bad with money you should not give it to each other that's why you do marriage consent and all those things you go bad with money I don't understand the reason why people act like that why do you purchase things that you cannot pay for I think that people should quote according to their size it's quite it's quite upsetting for you to have that kind of relationship I don't even, even as an individual I hate owning I hate owning because I hate people calling me that's me, so that's the thing so it will reflect on my marriage when I do get married because you understand I can't sleep when I'm with someone like if you tell me now I can just because even if I forget if you tell me immediately that's the situation to happen a second time I hate people having to for you to look like I'm running away from payment or something I can tell you to hold on but I just believe that honesty is very very important even in marriage so to have someone that has this kind of character already poses a problem to the marriage and to them as individuals because I can imagine how embarrassing it is for you to always step outside and someone just comes even when you're standing with a friend someone walks up to you and starts embarrassing you and then sometimes you find out how much it is maybe 20,000 maybe like see, instead of you to embarrass my friend take this much, I will pay because I don't know why anyone would want to see themselves in that kind of situation where you're being embarrassed everywhere you go because you cannot manage your finances or your financial purchases if you're broke, don't buy anyway so that I find out from my end see, if you have any trauma that you are dealing with from before heal before you marry that is very important please don't bring, see when human beings everybody has their individual baggage and whatnot but if you are saying that because I saw my mother because I saw my father do want to when they were married and you have to heal from that before you come and say you want to marry because you cannot bring that mentality into marriage with me I can't do that you can't nobody can make decisions you can make decisions first yeah, but the healing is a process that's why you have to be open to the person see, it's even as serious as look, this is what my parents face when they get married this is where I'm coming from and I don't want that to happen to us if he truly loves you, she will do her best to walk towards and make sure that it doesn't repeat itself in your marriage that's my two cents see that her husband was a better manager because he helped her to manage when she came to him with that issue thereby it was an issue that was real calling I think for me my last words would be it is important that you have conversations about money money is very important because your marriage is going to travel money money is used for everything in your entire life even as a single person so talk about money what your rules are who is contributing for what and the family learn about the person's saving culture the person's financial habits and all of that, very very key thank you Jennifer trust is very very important you have to have these conversations and trust each other if not, don't bother okay, I think we've hit the nail on the head already amazing conversation thank you very much before we go do ensure you follow us on Instagram you can interact with us further and most importantly follow all our social media engagements and remember to like, share, comment and invite your friends and family to watch us and follow us if you missed today's course here it says again the handling of finances is one of the major emotional battlegrounds of any marriage the root problem seems to be an unrealistic and immature view of money and this is by David Augsburger see you tomorrow at 8pm as we bring another great conversation to your screen bye