How we gonna do it? Black boy, tell me how you really feel. I just wanna build with you.  I just wanna keep it real with you. I wanna live better, eat better. I wanna love better, sleep better. I wanna feel so aligned, sublime. One time for the state of mind. Two times for elevated rhymes. Know I architected when I laid design. I drowned noise out of the clear blue. I sit, twist the threads of said silence. That's an heirloom. I am the shepherd, I share sheep. Still fleece funds from the habitals to the matadors. Whose side stepped the bull? Beautifully to that applause. Around rappers, a higher caliber catalog shines. Reminds, I ain't coming to flatter y'all. I spark chatter, dark matter, the sharks scatter on these dark waters. Who walked taller? Who barks orders? Godbody, God and what all the laws taught us. Not appear, it's really fear near. I pierce deep, I'm revered. My steps remain clear with fierce sweeps. Not a man here who could sense me. I'm on the pier, Elohim with the energy. Black boy, tell me how you really feel. I just want to feel with you.  I just want to keep it real with you. I want to live better, eat better. Yeah, yeah, I want to love better, sleep better. Yeah, I want to feel so aligned. Let me talk to y'all over here, it's a blonde. One time for elevated rhymes. Two times for showmanship. Three times for black hands and land ownership revolution. I bring to you where the ring bling to you. Nese blues on war tunes to sing to you. I am a rebel without a pause. Trust me, I must be Chuck D getting mine off. Many fools been clock watching my moves and I needed a reappraisal of flavor to the time off.  Off of the coffin and curtain untorn. I'm a rose that rose to etch pros and rosetta stone. Yelling to do a megaphone. Always rapping, baby, forever home. I ain't the pawn calling the kettle black. I'm the flame keeping the kettle warm and I am to blame for the renaissance. It's cold. Had to write and recite it with down feather song. Black boy, tell me how you really feel. Cause I just want to feel with you.  I just want to keep it real with you. Yeah, I want to live better, eat better. I want to love better, sleep better. Yeah, I want to feel so aligned, sublime. One time for elevated rhymes. Two times for showmanship. Three times for black hands and land ownership revolution. I bring to you where the ring bling to you. Nese blues on war tunes singing to you. I am the rebel without a pause. Trust me, I am Chuck D getting mine off. Many fools, they clock watchin' my moves and I needed to re-appraise it with flavor. Took some time off now.  All could occur and occur and unto it. I'm the rose that rose, the etch just prones and rose out of stone. Still yelling to do a megaphone. Always rapping, baby, forever home. I ain't the pawn calling the kettle black. I am the flame keeping the kettle warm. I'm to blame for the renaissance. It's cold. Had to write and recite it with down feather song. I love you and write it inside it with down feathers on.  And I'm the coldest. Listen, it's the message right here. Black boy, tell me how you really feel. Cause I just want to build with you.  I want to keep it real with you. I want to live better, eat better. I want to love better, sleep better. Yeah, I want to feel so aligned. Y'all give a round of applause to this band right now.  I wasn't in the rehearsal. We didn't do that. That was not a part of the set list. Roger was just in my ear like, yo, let's do it again. So we're going to do it again. So we did it again. This next record, we're going to get into it since we have any message to my black boys. Tell me how y'all really feel. I know y'all going through it. We going through it.  I know y'all going through it. Y'all been going through it. So we're going to keep that going. We're going to talk to y'all directly. Because I love y'all. I love y'all deeply. And I love y'all forever. And I'm unapologetic about that love. You'll be like, yo, well, you know, I'd be like, yo, we're going to do this right now for the black women. We're going to do it for all women. I'm like, no, that ain't what I said. I said, we're going to do this for the sisters. Well, what about all of us? Just be like, no. Welcome, welcome, welcome. Good evening. What's going on family? Y'all put a thumbs up in the chat if you can hear me okay. This is going to be a good stream. This is going to be a good one. Paul, I see you. Hope you're well, brother. All right. So, as you guys can see on the stream, the hundred, our first live event is going to be this June 24th in Atlanta, Georgia. Limited to 100 people. If you are interested in being a part of this very, very productive, very, very necessary event, please navigate to the website. The link is in the QR code you see on the screen. The link is in the community chat and the link is in the about page as well. And if you would like to DM me for the link, feel free to do that as well. But we would love to see you there if you're in Atlanta, if you're around Atlanta, pull up.  But shout out to Cherelle for the first super chat of the evening.   Shout out to my baby Lucky Marie and one of a kind beauty. I love you. All right, shout out to you. I appreciate the support. So as you guys may or may not know tonight, I am doing something very different, at least different than what I usually do. I'm doing a panel. For those of you guys who don't know, I've been very, very critical of panels because of some of the examples that we've seen on these YouTube streets. My background is in a dialogue facilitation. I did it in college, I did it after college. So when I see some of the ways that they're done on the internet, it rubs me the wrong way personally. So tonight's panel, the goal of tonight's panel is to brainstorm, brainstorm and figure out a better brand and a better direction for these conversations that we're having on the internet. I, as you guys may know, I've been critical of the leadership of the black man is fear. I think some people are in this for themselves. Some people are not interested in solutions. Some people simply love to hear themselves talk. But this particular stream is entitled solutions because that's what I'm interested in and that's what my panelists are interested in. So we're gonna have a brainstorm session. This is not going to be a mandingo fight like some of us are used to. This is not going to be a who-sparter match. This is going to be a team sport, right?  That's what dialogue should be. Moving things forward to a common goal instead of bickering about the minute differences that we have. So thank you all for being here. Get comfortable. It's gonna be a good one. It's gonna be a good one. But again, just for some ground rules and setting proper expectations, as you can see, it is a members only chat. I do that for two reasons. Number one, I don't think everybody deserves a right to speak. I think people who have earned a right to speak deserve a right to speak. I think people who are in support, in actual support, not just lip service, of the outcomes that they claim they want. I think they deserve a right to speak. But people simply speaking to hear themselves speak. People simply speaking to the real conversations. I'm not interested in that.  If you're super chatting, I know you rock with the mission. If you are a mod, I know you rock with the mission because since day one, I've been clear.  And more specifically, black men and black women can reconcile our differences. Because a lot of the critiques that we as black men have for black women are well founded. They're good critiques, right? They are going to lead to not only better outcomes for black women individually, but better outcomes for us collectively. And vice versa, some of the critiques that black women have of us are well founded as well. So I wanted to create a space where both things are communicated. And I think I've done a decent job so far. I could be better. I'm striving to be better. And with the support of like-minded individuals who are interested in that same mission, we're going to keep moving this thing forward. Because the man is fear that I see, the black man is fear that I see, is not simply interested in entertainment. It's not simply interested in catharsis.  The man is fear that I see is interested in black male studies departments, is interested in legislation reform, is interested in community building. That's the black man is fear that I see. But unfortunately, some of the louder voices in this space are interested in self-aggrandizement, self-inflation. So again, shout out to everybody for being here. Paul, I see you, my brother. Money management media, I see you. Man of prestige, I see you. Shout out to you, man. Appreciate the Super Chat Odukwu. One name will care. Paul, man of prestige. All right, so a lot of things have been happening. In these matters fears. We may or may not touch on them. I got some people in the back who may or may not touch on them. But I, and I was talking to Courtney earlier today. I am excited about the potential future after this just pearly things atomic bomb, right? I think this is an excellent opportunity for us to clarify what it is that we're doing. I think it's an excellent opportunity for us to put a proverbial fence around what it is that we're doing. And gate keep what it is that we're doing. So we can actually do it, and it could be effective, and it could be successful. So this panel, the conversations that I'm having are interested in that future. Some people don't think that future is possible. Some people think the community or the community tie or Blackistan is a lost cause. To those people, I would say this channel is not for you. For the 50th time, please unsubscribe. But for the people who are interested in what we're interested in. For the people who think whether millennials or Gen Z are not a lost cause. For the people who think our children are not a lost cause. For the people who understand that the world is calibrated currently to exploit little Black children and would like to see a future where we can safeguard our children and ourselves. Then you're tapped into the right place. Before we get started, I wanted to play a video. There was an experiment done by a man named John Calhoun. I think it was in 1972. Please don't quote me on that. But he created a simulation using mice. And in that simulation, he wanted to replicate a potential utopia. So the mice had an abundant food supply, an abundant water supply, plenty of space, plenty of shelter. And he used this experiment to try to figure out how humanity could potentially play out in certain conditions. So I'm gonna play like a snippet of it and then we're gonna talk about it. Mr. T knows where I'm going with this. We're gonna talk about it. We're gonna pull up our panel and we're gonna talk about obviously the freak-nick situation. We're gonna talk about Black China. We're gonna talk about some of the man's fear stuff. But yeah, y'all get comfortable, grab your popcorn, but let us start off with this video. Aided goal of the experiment was simply to see whether a perfect society would flourish. Initially the experiment, it proved successful and the mice lived in relative harmony and within a year the population of eight super healthy mice had swelled to a respectable 620 members. Great care was taken to ensure the mice were taken care of. Food and water was unlimited, which allowed the mice to eat or drink whenever they pleased and there was always space and clean bedding available so females could rear young in peace and safety. Despite this, Calhoun noticed that after day 35 of the experiment, things started to go wrong. First of all, there was a noticeable drop in population growth. While initially the population of the mouse heaven had doubled every 55 days, after day 315 it doubled according to Calhoun's notes, approximately every 145 days. This made little sense as there was still ample space to house another 3,000 mice. In addition to a drop in population growth, Calhoun also noticed an abrupt change in behavior in both males and females. Social bonds broke down and male mice without a reason to defend their territory or food source since both were plentiful became dejected, forming cakes that randomly attacked one another for seemingly no reason. The females, similarly, began abandoning young or even attacked them and slowly but surely both males and females simply stopped breeding. In the lead up to this, certain of the male mice began continually mating with whatever mouse happened to be around, be it male or female. Many of the mice also began to simply kill and eat one another despite the abundance of other food sources. Mothers also abandoned their babies, mice would crowd together in groups of 50 or more in pens designed to hold 15 individuals while pens with plentiful bedding sat completely empty just inches away. Most intriguing of all were a small group of males and females who withdrew themselves from mouse society altogether to live in the upper levels of the enclosure that Calhoun described as the beautiful ones. These mice did nothing but sleep, eat and groom themselves and this gave them noticeably smoother looking coats which along with their isolation meaning no scars from attacks led to their nickname. They seemingly lost interest in all meaningful social bonds and refused to interact or mate. The last birth in universe 25 took place on day 600 from that moment on the population it slowly dwindled. Even when the population rescinded to levels where the mice had previously flourished they refused to breed or go back to their old way of interacting. A few months later all of the mice were dead. Calhoun noted that although the population had survived for many months afterwards it had effectively died on the 315th day, the day the social bonds broke down stating their spirit has died the first death. They are no longer capable of executing the more complex behaviors compatible with species survival. The species in such settings die. Calhoun saw his experiments as a warning bell for humanity with his belief being that overpopulation would inevitably lead to social collapse and thus the extinction of the human race. Others have taken a less nihilistic view of his work and believed that his results are comparable to what would happen in a human society as after all we are slightly more complex and self aware creatures than mice. That said what's often lost in Calhoun's work is what came after in which he continued to research and tweak environment. I was muted so like I said before John Calhoun he created an experiment called Universe 25. It was called Universe 25 because he ran the experiment multiple times. The Universe 25 was the 25th time that he ran the experiment and he found every single time that the mice utopia fell apart. The reason I bring this up and the reason I thought it was interesting is because in his experiment he found that there were a number of adverse effects to the society. Some of those effects were specific to the females, some of those effects were specific to the males. Some of the effects for the males was more effeminate males who were less interested in more productive activities and some became homosexual, some spent more time grooming themselves than actually vying for mate or vying for food or whatever the case may be. And then with the women it created a branch of female mice who were unnaturally aggressive, who were unnaturally not just aggressive to other males but aggressive to their offspring as well. And obviously mice, human beings, it's not an apples to apples comparison but I think there are some lessons there. And when we look at our community in particular there are some things that we are or some behaviors we're exhibiting that are unnatural to us. Whether that is an effect of post-traumatic slave syndrome, whether that's an effect of the West, there are certain things that we're seeing some of those things being unnaturally aggressive women and some men who are exhibiting effeminate traits, right? Men who are unwilling to stand up for anything. Men who are vague with their intentions. Men who are more interested in going with what's going than setting a standard, whether for themselves, whether for their communities or whether for the women in their lives and that's how we see the cycle, right? Why do I bring all this up? I started this channel about a year ago and in that year I've been successful, whatever that means but I've amassed somewhat of a following. And I've also learned about the space that I was thrown into by the algorithm. I mean, I wasn't unaware of being thrown in here. I named one of my series, Kevin Samuels started this conversation. So I knew it was gonna happen. But what I noticed was there's a branch of men who are interested in rehabilitating our community, rehabilitating our women or more problematic women and moving towards a more bright, prosperous future and there's also a branch of men who are interested in catharsis, who are interested in remaining angry, who are interested in scapegoating black women as the source of our community's problems and of men's problems. And I've been critiqued recently for being condescending or for thinking I have all the answers. But the reality is even though I don't have all the answers one thing that I do know is that when you remain in a state of anger, when you remain in a state of nihilism there's really no need for you to talk. There's really no need for you to contribute to a conversation that in my opinion was created to facilitate progress.  And they don't actually do a good enough job in addressing the ways that our men contribute to our women. And they're some of the problematic parts of them or some of the problematic parts of our community. And I think Freakneak is a perfect example of that and we'll talk about it. But like I've said before for every woman who thinks she's old, the moon and the stars there's a dude at her DMs promising her heaven.  And if we expect our women to do better, our community to do better, we have to do better as men. So, Oh, Nate, I see you. No, so it's a member's only chat. That's why it's not moving. Now it's only the real ones can comment.  Let's get this thing going. First and foremost, we have Miss Corny Michelle. How you doing, girl? How are you, darling? How are you? I'm good, I'm good, I'm good, I'm good. How you doing? Is you ready? I is. I's ready and I'm excited. I'm excited too. We're solutions, baby. That's what we do over here. What are your initial thoughts? Like, where are you interested in seeing or where are you interested in going with this conversation? All right. The experiment I thought was completely interesting and I looked it up after you told me about it and I have my theories, but the theories that I'm seeing in that experiment is what's going on today. And at the end of the day for me, if you don't have a purpose, if you don't have an identity, then chaos erupts and we have to have a solid purpose. And when it comes to mating and dating conversations, I think I'll always believed in creation rules. My purpose is for not only my husband, but my community. And if I don't serve that purpose or I feel like that they're not needed and I don't need a man and you don't need a woman, then what are we doing? We're just fighting and bickering and trying to find a place because we're out of order. So I'm interested in having that conversation. Definitely interested in the freak-nick now. You know, we're gonna talk about it. We're gonna talk about it. We're gonna talk about the twerking and the birkin. But yeah, I wanted to be cool again to say that I love you. I wanted to be cool to say that I need you. I wanted to be cool again to say we need each other. Right. Absolutely. I'm ready. Let's do it. All right, without further ado, we got next up, Mr. Nathan. Mr. Nathan Davis. What's going on, bro? Oh, bro. What's happening? I'm muting, bro. Yeah, you're muted, man. It's still muted. There you go. There we go, there we go. We've been doing this the whole time. What's going on, bro? What's good, y'all? What's good? Chilling, chilling, chilling. So same question to you, man. What are your expectations? What are your intentions for this particular conversation? Quite a lot of you zoom in. You know how I do, man. That's what I know. My thoughts is, one, I think it's great to have a conversation kind of after the fallout of everything and really just kind of bring some clarity to what the next move is. And solutions, man. I think everything is about solutions at the end of the day. Are we utilizing what we have to the best of our abilities? Is our content that we do make online, does that transition to offline behavior, right?  I don't personally want to be a person who just gets on the camera and talk. I wanna be able to show not just receipts with my research, but receipts with my work and say, listen, at the end of the day, you guys, this what we talk about here, you can also follow the action offline and see that there is a solution-based action that comes with the solution-based conversation. And that's what I would like to see and just kind of talk about what that looks like and then also not being derailed by those who don't want those things. And I think you made a good point earlier that, listen, this is a business at the end of the day. We can't argue with people who use YouTube as a stream of income for survival because they're not gonna see things the same. I didn't come here to make money off of YouTube. I came here to see about a solution. And so when you start to utilize these platforms solely to make money, then you can easily be compromised by said money. And that could be an issue, right? So... Absolutely, brother. Absolutely. So next up, we got Miss Lucky Marie. I'm probably gonna see some clovers in the chat here soon. Whoa, hello. How you doing, Lucky? I'm good. How are you? Are there clovers in the chat? Not chat. You know, it's a member's only chat. So it depends on if we have any members in common. But you could bypass that with super chats, but support the stream. But what are your thoughts, Lucky? What are you interested in getting or seeing or learning or taking this conversation? I'm actually one of the ones that gave up. I think it's good to still have conversations. So I'm hoping that something in these conversations will spark me to have hope for us because I like to have conversations solution-oriented in a way where we can understand each other. So I don't really care about who's right and who's wrong. All of it is wrong, in my opinion. I just think the right thing is to reach a understanding so that we can come to a solution. But most of us don't wanna understand. So I'm here to be convinced. Let's do it. Let's do it. All right. So up next, we have Mr. Ilysophical. What's going on, my brother? You muted, bro. Well, peace, peace. What's going on there? There we go. We're scared, brother, we're scared. So talk to me. What's the goal here, man? I'm kind of in the middle. Like, you know, I'm definitely open to solutions. You know, I feel like the youth are the real answer. You know, how much we can affect the youth could really affect the future. But I kind of feel how lucky it feels as well. I feel like we so far removed from unity that we have to really start from scratch and really question everything that we think we know about our society of structure. I think that experiment that you showed once again validated that we're dealing with a systematic structure is more than just, you know, an attack against black men and black women. These personal issues we have with each other. We was putting in an environment that kind of bred these ideas. And the recent happenings in the space that show them that we've forgotten how we really got here and we ended up just eating each other and taking each other apart. You know, we're both complicit in our undoing, but it's also greater situations at hand, greater forces at hand, that is contributed to the results that we have today. And I feel like we've gotten away from that in the last few years and really just started taking it out on each other, but it's time to get a little more, I think, factual, specific and historical with our approach to who we are. I think the resource that we have has reached their limits as far as spiritually, as far as economically, as far as everything we think we know about ourselves, I think it has reached its limit. And it's time to really start things over. I really had some fresh new ideas. I'm really looking forward to hearing other people's perspective on the current plight of our people. That's real, that's real. Last but not least, definitely not least, some of you guys recognize her, Ms. Lauren Melissa. Same question to you, Lauren. What are your hopes, what are your dreams for this conversation? Well, first off, finally, thank you, someone's having a conversation. I'm one of the people, I know what you said she gave up, but like I absolutely left this space. I entered into, well, I didn't enter. I kind of stumbled upon the menace for a space by happenstance, appearing on a show and I was kind of just like immersed in it. And it was immediately turned off by the dialogue. And it's like, this isn't me, this is not my space. But I have a voice. People want to listen, hear it, right? And people are like, why did, what happened? So I'm really glad to be a part of this conversation because just like the video said, like we're like, well, the mice are complex, right? Well, we're complex people, we're humans, we're complex, simple solutions will not exist. Like just don't exist. We need a combination of things to kind of put us back on a right track. You know, you mentioned community, yes, community. Also therapy or some faith. Like so just one thing alone is not going to like solve it. So I'm just really excited for what's to come and like we're all listening to different perspectives and landing on something or just starting the dialogue. So just glad to be here and be a part of the conversation. Absolutely. And I'm happy to have you too. I'm happy to have all you guys. So let's start here. You guys, based on my understanding, please correct me if I'm wrong. Most of you excluding ill, soffical have been in the man's fear or have been around the man's fear for a while. I'm gonna start with you, Courtney. What was the man's fear created for? The black man is fear more specifically. What was it created for? What was the point? So, well, to my understanding, the point of the man is fear was to have a collective conversation amongst black men. And not only was it supposed to be getting black men to level up as far as economically, career-wise, health-wise, but also in relationship is understanding what men, black men are leaders and to make sure that they become leaders of their families. And I thought it was gonna be also a conversation of wanting black women to understand that they are needed. However, some of the behaviors that are exhibited is some of them is like, we all like this. We want you better. We want you better to lead you. So I thought it was kind of a holistic thing of black men being better, not only for themselves, but in essence, their family and their family create the community. Absolutely.  What have you seen? Is what you've seen consistent with what Courtney described or have you seen something different? I mean, I feel like life is what you're making. And I feel like with this space, you find what you're looking for. I feel like a lot of us find spaces and arguments that are convenient to our narrative because that's what we gravitate towards. But I feel like whatever you want in this space is what you find. Even though I wasn't in this space, I was definitely familiar with the men's movement and just black YouTube in general, but it's more specifically the movement of men speaking. And I feel like there was a lot of things it was what Courtney mentioned, but it was also just a place where men could just be honest and just tell how they really feel about life and how they feel about their experiences. And of course, what comes with that is people that are to take things overboard. Just like in female spaces, there are women that take things overboard. But I feel like we all have to realize that no one can gauge another person's pain threshold. So no matter how much it might turn us off or might repel us to a degree, what they're spewing out is a reflection of what they've been through. And I feel like this space just needs, everybody just needs to listen. You know what I'm saying? It's not a lot of us listening. We hear the pain and we have trigger words that trigger us to derail conversations, but people are speaking from their real genuine experiences. No matter if we agree with it or not, that's their experience. So I feel like it's everything in the space that you want. You want to find men that are, what you call in-sales, you can find that. You want to find men that speak from a higher perspective, you can find that as well. You want to find people that just want to hit their self-talk, you can find it. But people look for things to create content more than things to create solutions. Not because it's not there, it's just because that's not what they want to talk about. The T.S. John's of the world are here. You know what I'm saying? But are you looking for it? That's real, that's real.  Happens. Tell the story of like, what happened? How did you find your way here and why did you leave? Okay, I'll make a long story short. I went on Anton's channel. It was just like on his channel. We had a couple of videos with him or interviews, if you will. And then I was invited to be on a Lepif network and I did that for a very short stint. And that was a very interesting experience for me. And as a result, like when I first entered into the space, I had my own channel and I was really focused on telling stories, people in the community, just people around me, you know, just sharing goodness into the internet, right? The interweb. And so because I was on his channel and it was more so, I'm from Detroit, if no one knows. So I mean, I know him outside of the space. So it was just connecting with someone that I knew. So when I went on to the Lepif network, that's when it was like, oh, a pretty face. Oh, she's on this panel and all of a sudden, everybody wanted me to talk about relationships on my channel or wanting me to just talk about men versus women. And I want to hear Lauren's perspective. Why is Lauren single? Why, and it really turned into that. I had no interest, zero interest in talking about relationships, men versus women or anything like that. But that's what the people wanted. And to Nathan's point, you made, when you first came on and you talked about how people were doing it for money, that was a really, that was the thing that, and I feel like I had a conversation with Lucky about at the beginning and even Courtney. And I was just like, look y'all, like if I stumble upon making money on here, great, but that's not really what I want to do. And everybody's like, well, people want to hear you talk about relationships, so do it. And so I ended up doing it, had a few shows on my channel just talking about it, facilitated some panels. And then it just started to get messy, just really messy. And I mean, I'm not surprised, right? People love mess, look at how reality TV is just spiking and people love mess, even if it's made up mess. And being the woman that I am and just the person that I am, I'm not interested in being a part of anybody's mess, real or not, real, fake, indifferent, whatever, I'm not interested. And I'm the type of person that I will step away from anything that does not, A, benefit me, but it's just not productive. You can have productive conflict or you can just like have conflict that's just chaotic. And that is not what I want it to be a part of.  This was fun, I may come back, I may not. But it wasn't, again, it wasn't that I needed it for money because there are people out here that are like, I have to make this happen, I gotta pay bills, that's never been me. And I actually have like, I got a job, right? So what do I look like arguing with strangers on the internet? That's just not something that I'm interested in, just as a person. And I have sense, common sense, most of what like a lot of the people don't have. And so, yeah, I just set myself apart. Like if I wanna sit up there and argue with people who literally is telling you how to make millions of dollars but you barely got two pennies in your account, have a good day, right? Like I'm just not interested. And so I'm just that type of person to walk away.  Like you was just gonna let her disrespect you. And I was just like, words are like words. Like, I'm not giving anybody a show. And if you're looking for a show, I'm just not the person for you or this panel. And I got a lot of feedback from the Lapeev show of like, Lauren, you don't talk, you only talk when you like, when somebody asks you a question, you don't ever interject, you're just so quiet. I don't always have to speak. Silence is powerful. So Lucky, this one's to you. You said that you have lost a little bit of faith. You've lost a little bit of hope. I want you to like explain more specifically hope in the community, hope in men, hope in our reconciliation. And how did you get there? I would say I've always been there. I was then raised in a community mindset. I was raised individual. So you judge people individually. You also give people an opportunity to show you who they are. That's kind of like how I was raised. I never was raised in an environment to think just cause they're black or we're all black, less, you know, black power. So I'm gonna be honest, it wasn't until I really got to this space where I see how there was a lot of black people that seemed to care. So I became interested in it because it seemed like, okay, this is the first time I've seen social media other than like Facebook posts or things like that. But actually visually talking to black male and female who are seem like they're trying to bring all the problems to the table and then carry it on into your own relationships or your own households. So then I see in my personal life, people, random people just wanting to have these conversations. So then it's like, okay, just bringing a little bit of hope. The podcast world seemed like it's parking the conversation. But when you start seeing the conversation isn't really going anywhere or people are just saying things for wild factors such as, oh, because I have five, 600,000 subscribers, I get to say the number one killer or the number one detriment to a black man is a black woman. And then if I get 500 people in the chat to say, yeah, you're right, I'm verified. Can nobody argue? You know what I'm saying? So I get to this space where it's like, no, the reason why people think that you're right is not because you're actually right. Cause as you start to get clear out of the fluff, you're not really saying anything. It's actually low hanging fruit, but you have a subscriber count. So everybody respects you. So then if you're the one who comes in and questions in or things like that and you question it with other content creators, it's more so like, who are you to question this person? They have such and such subscribers. I wouldn't dare speak up. Cause they, you know what I'm saying? So it's like, you have to bow down in a sense where it's nothing different than crabs in a bucket where people kind of want to build their channel or build things structured off of you. And then like Warren said, me, I'm a person. I just took an approach.  So if you want to make it a muddy fight, we want to make it a muddy fight. I'm funny too. You know, but then when you start taking that and you started fighting mud with mud, you might, it's never ending. So now you're invited to a clown circus, and now you just back and forth. And it's like, okay, can we reach an understanding? No, cause I'm doing it for content or I'm doing it for this.  And then if you're someone like me, you'll start out believing in it. Then you start saying the trigger name like Cynthia G and you like, look, I'm about to unsubscribe from everybody and see why she turned.  One minute they believe this, they're pro black. The next minute I have to pay you for basic information that I can Google or do a search on YouTube that's there. So I don't really know. Like I think my hope will come from a couple people. I do know that when the people that speak the truth, they may not get a lot of subscribers or people listening right off the back. So that's what's important to me. Nathan, my brother. So Nathan, what is going on here? What, because you know me and you have had conversations and we have speculated what the issue might be. Why there is no gatekeeping of this space, why there is no clear or defined goal of this space, no mission statement, no vision. What is the consequence of if we just keep going business as usual? And what is a potential bright side? Like how can we pivot to a place where, okay, we're actually talking about black men learning more about their women, black women learning more about their men and our community reconciling in a way that's gonna be productive for our children. That's a lot. I don't know.  Lucky touched on it. So here's the thing, the problem is, right? I'm just, let me see how I wanna word this. Just say it. The problem is, the problem is we're looking at this situation and it's like kids who've been trapped in a house who finally have the opportunity to go outside. Like that's the reaction that we're seeing, right? There's no discipline. There's no, there's no concern for image, behavior. You know, we're gonna talk about freak need, right? It's a prime example. You know, what it was supposed to be about and then what it turned into. And then when you label things freak, meek, you know, it's very telling what you're getting into. It was about the freaks, you know? We always seem to go out and run amok and then think later about how it made us look, right? People forget that we are on a world stage every day. You know, I just finished a video yesterday about Chicago and how the teams decided they're gonna just do what they wanna do. The reality is, we have to manage our image and we're the only ones in control of our image. No one else, we can't blame people who turn on a camera and record our behavior and they get mad at them for posting it or get mad at them for talking about it. So when you talk about this space, I'm not saying this to sound righteous, but the reality is it needs to be treated like a business. The managed fear should have been treated and organized like a business, you know? Like there is a, when I got into this space, I didn't have a clue, right? And to Lucky's point, I didn't, I thought it was odd that people would just say that they know what they're talking about and they have no training, they have no certification, they have no expertise, they're not subject matter experts, and all of a sudden they just know everything and you're just supposed to trust what they have to say. YouTube is dangerous to be honest and we're seeing the impacts of that where everyone is allowed a mic, everyone is allowed a camera, which is fine, the discernment needs to be on the people, right? I can't blame the content creator for putting out content that's not fruitful or unproductive or shows us in a negative light. I can't blame them, I have to blame the people who gravitate to set content, you know? If we are going to complain about certain issues and that we don't have the ability to do certain things and then we're given the opportunity to do it and we don't treat it properly or we abuse it, then it still falls back on us, you know? So what's the problem? It becomes self-inflicted. Everything we see today is all self-inflicted, you know? You can't blame anybody, you know? And some people wanna be creative and tell you how Casper's responsible for it, I get it, right? And it's not that you can still make an argument and you can still trace back some historical stuff. At the end of the day, we're adults. These are choices, these are decisions and if you have one-on-one conversation with people and you ask them, hey, did someone ever tell you that that wasn't a good idea? They'd be like, yeah. Okay, well then why'd you do it? Because I wanted to, right? Because I wanted to. And no one wants to have that conversation about why your decisions have an impact on you at the same time we are all melanated people.  It reflects poorly on all of us and people who truly understand that if you travel outside this country and you go over the places, you will understand better what that means.   TV, you know? And so the reality is we are responsible and I know people don't like to see that, they don't like to hear this but we are responsible for each other's image. When I step outside every day, I'm very conscious of how I'm representing not just my family or the people closest to me but also every other black male and female, you know? And so I just think that there is a responsibility that we have when we have our platform to make sure. And I'm not saying we can't disagree or be with each other and things like that respectfully, you know how I feel about that? Respectfully, there's a way for us to still disagree and with a level of the coral where we can disagree respectfully and that could be something that could be shown on the world stage and people don't judge us or say we're uncivilized, we're uncouth, right? It's just this whole thing just has been really embarrassing. And again, when I came on, I came on with the idea like, hey, I have this experience and this craft and this profession and I wanna lend my voice with these things and then I see other people who wanna talk about the things I'm talking about and they've never, they don't have anything to substantiate what they're talking about. So I don't know how it came to a point to where your number of subscribers validates your voice. That's false. And I think we need to get outside of that ignorant way of thinking because now so we'll see someone with 100,000 subscribers and you think that they are a subject matter. Expert on relationship, on dating, on police issues, on marriage, on domestics and really they're just hurt or they had their own personal experience and now they're trying to teach everybody else what to do, how to do it and what's best. People who've lived lives of criminals wanna come on here and tell you why you should hate the police. And sorry, well, what's your relationship with the police? Well, I've been arrested 30 times. Huh, you don't say. So maybe your biased opinion is not the one we need to be listening to. Hmm, that's good, that's good.  So, me and you talk about the internet versus the real world a lot. For the women who are watching, break it down to them as best as you can. What do you think is at the core of what women misunderstand about men? Black women misunderstand about black men? Wow, you're gonna meet with the atomic bomb, man. Come on now, you're ready for it. You ready for it? I brought the piggyback off of Brother Nathan. But wow, say that one more, give me that question one more time, that was heavy, I need to hear it. Yeah, yeah, no, so basically, the point of this panel, we're trying to reach some solution. More specifically about reconciling black men with black women, at least for understanding sake. What do you feel like you can tell the ladies who are watching about black men that they might misunderstand? Because remember you went viral for talking to the lady on the street about how they pick men. So what is it that you can explain to women that they may currently misunderstand about black men and the way we move and the reason we do the things that we do? We have a different nature than you. You know what I mean? And it's not respected. And our natural inclinations of who we are is not really respected by women if dismissed. And they really don't care how we naturally view them, how we naturally view the world. And it's like the man has to be defined by what they do in the manual. And what we define as manhood is really not respected if it's not directly promoting her as far as doing what the woman wants you to do, as far as economically, as far as submitting yourself to her. It's like she doesn't really respect how a man looks at life, his responsibilities, the power he has, you know, even when it comes to creation, most in our community, not just women men too, when it comes to our community, when they think of the creator of life, they don't think of a dualistic system. They think of a woman. You know what I'm saying? They don't think of a man when it comes to the creation of life. So we're not even really included in the foundational structure of the current community outside of just what our back can do or what our finances can do. And it's like, it doesn't seem like we're defined or respected outside of those mediums. You know, and I feel like if anything a woman can do today to understand a brother's life better, it's to trust that they may have a different way of looking at things outside of how you look at it. You know what I'm saying? It may be different. It may be a different spiritual perspective. It may be a different financial perspective. It may be a different emotional perspective. It's just trusting us to have a different view than you may have. And we may put you on things that you never thought was possible. You know, a lot of women just have a fixed way of looking at things and they've been reared in that culture. So if men, you know, men are afraid to be objective with women because they don't want to lose their favor of them. And it's the generation of men that that's why it's overboard now where they just spewing everything because they never felt like they can speak honestly about how they feel about things. And I think women have to really be prepared for that. So based on what you've seen so far, do you feel like, number one, do you feel like this space is doing a good enough job at getting that message across? And number two, do you feel like women are even receptive to that message? I think it's getting across if you're listening to people who are articulate, you know, because there's so many people out here, so many talking heads. So you can find the problem or the solution. But I don't know if women are receptive to it as much. I think a lot of them at best are receptive to engaging in the conversation. But as far as actually looking at it a man's way and changing how they move according to deal with men, and I don't see that. I think respectable conversations have happened when she said, okay, I hear what you're saying, but I don't agree. I think that has happened where we can at least agree to disagree. But as far as women say, you know what? That's true. I might move differently. I don't see it that way. I'm gonna ask you this, and then I'm gonna move to Courtney. What would that look like? In your opinion, what would it look like a world where women are actually receptive to it? I think it'd just be a peaceful world because they don't have to do what men tell them to do. It's just that when we tell you how we feel, it doesn't have to turn into a disrespectful energy. You know what I'm saying? We can agree to disagree. But when women hear what men think, they say, oh, he just misogynistic, oh, he just, they don't respect a man's natural inclinations. Like men are forced to, since we've been children, to understand everything about the woman. You know, even when it comes to her sidewalk, all about a woman we've been exposed to had to really take into account in dealing with her. But when it comes to how we look at things, how we naturally feel, it's just dismissed as if it's, you know, almost like caveman life, you know what I'm saying? So I just think they just don't respect how we feel and how we look at things. And it just easily dismissed. And in a world where it's not, there'll be more peaceful interaction, there'll be less disagreement, there'll be less argument, and it'll just be a more peaceful understanding of each other. There won't be so much bickering with men that just heard because we really love each other, love, love women, you know what I'm saying? I think black women love us, but they don't really know who we are, that we've been having to sell them who we've been told to be for so many years. Ooh, that's interesting. Courtney, help us make some sense of that. Is he on point? Is he missing something? Is there something that women are missing? No, I think he is on point. I don't think that we naturally, as far as with women my age, have been inclined to want to know what's going on with a man as far as how he's feeling. We don't think about how he's feeling. We just want him to do. He's a worker being used to supposed to work and your feelings, we've never really sat down and be like, how do you feel? How does it feel when I do this or when I say this? I think those are open and awesome conversations, but usually it's not. It's always focused on how I'm feeling. I'm the woman and I'm the emotional one, so that it's my feelings should be priority. And we have it, I think a lot of women have done a piss poor job as far as men and understanding their feelings and knowing that things do hurt them and things do affect them. And they do need to hear that we're listening. They do need to hear that we're understanding. So I think that that in itself, that communication in women listening would change the game of completely. And again, that's what I thought this space was to be about for if the women are over here now and that we are listening, that that would open up bigger conversations. But I was wrong. That's not what this space is for.  That's what it's for.    So those conversations, what I thought was should be fruitful and healthy. I know, it ain't, I'm finding out. I know that it's not case in point. And then you ain't pulled up no super chat, but there's a super chat that came through. I got him saved. Okay. So one of- I got him saved. We'll come back.  One of the super chats was talking about the Lapeef hyenas and where the lion is. Well, we understand that that terminology is not made from a man that's women's terminology. And so what we have is a whole lot of men that are parenting a lot of what women are saying and what we need in this space are men leaders. I shouldn't have to know, oh, he must be listening to her and she's leading him. No, we need critical thinkers. We need men that are able to speak on things out of their own mind, instead of listening to content creators and having a high mentality and believing, well, they said it must be true and I'm going to repeat it. And that's what I'm waiting on is seeing, where are the men that are leaders? Because right now if I look at the space and I'm looking at a lot of the men, the men aren't leading, they're just followers. And that's not sexy. And no woman, as far as a good woman, wants a man that's a follower. Lee, come up with words on your own instead of parenting a woman, instead of sounding like a woman. And that's what we're missing. Critical thinkers. All right, so I'm going to ask the ladies this. I'm going to start with you, Courtney. I'm going to go to Lauren and then I'm going to go to Lucky. Then I'm going to throw it to the fellas. So, you know, in my opinion, I think we've oversimplified some of the frustration that men have with women and women have with men. And one of those oversimplifications is the 666 thing, right? And there's been almost the narrative that if you check off these boxes, you will get women. When the reality outside, shout out to Illa, is not that. The reality is you have to know how to talk. You have to know how to move around and things like that. So, outside of the box checking, and again, Lauren, I'm going to come to you next.  What are the things that you're noticing that those men are doing wrong or those men could be doing better? So, Courtney, I'm going to start with you.   It, that within itself lets our guard down because we're already in a mindset, and again, this historically speaking, but we are that black men don't want us, that they would prefer a pearly over a lucky. And they're willing to fight to no end for someone white or other than their own that has been here saying that they love you. And so when we see that perpetuated in this space and we've heard it for years and eons and to hear it again, it puts us on a guard because we are already feeling rejected. So how can we be feminine if we feel like you're already going to reject us because we're not your preference, we're not your first choice and that you would rather Kanye, leave us for a white girl, that's what we're already thinking. So again, in this space, thinking that this is what we're supposed to be doing, having conversations and letting black women know we do want you, we just want better for you. And black women coming over here saying black men, yes, we do want you and we want you to be leaders and we want to be led and we want to be soft and we tired of being so strong and hard and independent but damn, we have so many defenses up and we want to let it down. But then we get over here and it goes back up and it goes harder. So for all that, it don't take much. When you ask a woman what she wants, of course she's going to say, yeah, I want to be able to six figures, six, of course. That's not an idea of what we want but realistically, we're average. The average man gets married to the average woman. The average man makes this, the average woman makes that and those are the one that are marrying. Those are the ones that have solid relationships. So don't have me start ranting. We're gonna come back to it. And I see Illa, Illa got some things to say, but I'm gonna go to Lauren first. Oh, we gotta come back to that one. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. So Lauren, how would you answer that question? What are the nuances that we're missing in this intergender dialogue? Well, two things. Deal with your stuff. Like it's a lot of unresolved trauma that people are bringing into the space or just like relationships, interactions, whatever. That's like the underlying issue for me. Men who are confused, men don't know what they want. And they say like women, y'all don't know what y'all want, whatever, but to Courtney's point, like we'll tell you, like yeah, we wanna do that, can we? Yeah, we wanna do that, make six figures. And then you get mad that we're telling you what we want, right? Like if that's not true, move along, right? But don't try to like debate us down to try to tell us that's not what we should be looking for, no, like that's what we want. The other thing is men need to be honest with themselves. They probably aren't highly likely looking for a black woman to Courtney's point.  But yet you say, I love black women, I love black women, y'all just fill in a blank, y'all just fill in a blank, no, just be honest with yourself and say that you don't wanna be with a black woman in all as well. But don't, I know way too many women that are feminine, that got their stuff together, that aren't up here, what do they call it? Goal digging or just out here trying to get the cream, you know, creme de la creme of the men, like no. I know like women that should be married out here, but because you have men that are not honest with themselves with what they want, it creates kind of like thinking or just a lot of miscommunication.  So if you need to go to therapy, you need to talk to somebody or you just need to be single for a while, do that. And the second thing is to be honest with yourself. If this is not what you're really looking for, that's fine. You know, people probably both fight you, you know, run you in the ground on Twitter and YouTube and all the other spaces because you don't like black women or you have a preference that's not the popular one, that's fine, deal with it. Cause that's you, living your truth, be authentic. But people have a problem with that.  All right, Lucky, what are your thoughts on that? I would say that most of them lack integrity. I think that they don't really stand on a principle. Their principle is based on one minute is Jesus, the next minute is Satan, the other minute it's something about we have to protect women, the next minute it's they all women except this woman. So it's like, you don't really understand what their principles are. And I think there's a lot of men who speak loudly who are the men that the masculine men talk about such as they're raised by their mother. So they show a lot of the feminine quality such as it's comfortable to argue a woman down. You have men who have argued with women their whole life. So when they get in these conversations, you represent either the girl that turns them down or somebody that they're just gonna argue you down about and say, oh, you're this, you're that. Then I'm gonna ask you a set up question.  You know what I'm saying? So I think it wasn't until, I think it's one thing to say these are your standards but you have a lot of men who are speaking as though they're high value once they get monetization on YouTube. And then used to have these people who say, oh, I'm high value because I believe in God. Or, you know, the definition of stuff started to change. And I just wish some of these terminologies didn't exist but because they do now we have certain standards. So I think the image part is a big thing. I don't know what's the general image that black men are trying to portray. First, I thought the space was about men who said that oh, for years, yo, you guys had Oprah when I didn't even watch Oprah. That wasn't my generation, but my generation is paying for it. So they're saying, hey, you women had years to have Ricky Lake and to talk about us. And then it's like, okay, now you have a voice. So should we just hear you talking about black women and just letting it out on anybody who says something. And then we have this obsession with accountability as though you can hold people accountable online. Only thing you can do is just call it out. It's up to them to either acknowledge it and then it's based on whose standards are you holding them accountable to? Is it the overall what men feel or is it that individual male? And I think sometimes it's so conflated with based on your value is set up in your subscriber count. So it's kind of like a wave. Once this person up here says this, everybody down there has to repeat it and then that's just what gets triggered and you have content, content, content, content. And then that's just what it is. So I think it's no authenticity because nobody stands on anything. They stand on what other people tell them to stand on. And if there is a, this pearl thing is happening but as soon as there is another situation, that's gonna be the thing. And then they back over there. So I don't know. Men don't stand on anything. And that's why women are all over the place. I know the fellas have something to say. I'm between Il and Nathan. Which one of y'all want to go first?  Okay, okay. So before that though, let me read some of your super chats. I'm gonna read Il go because he the man is for a guy. I'm good, I'm good, I'm good to me, bro. I ain't no man is for a guy. I'm just, yeah, yeah. So let me read some of your super chats and I'm trying to be a better YouTuber. And then we'll go to Nathan and then we'll go to Il.   That is, that's a bar, that's a bar. And I think Nathan and Il are going to revisit that. Pesty, he says, I'd like to say it's not that there's black men who don't want to be with black women, but a lot of us are just led by confusion or trauma of what we think we know about the other sex, mainly from pain. Absolutely, absolutely. Mr. Rich Turner, my brother, just a love. Appreciate you, bro. QP with the 4.99 super chat. I appreciate you, bro. Super sticker, the super chat sticker, whatever. But I appreciate you, brother.  We'll touch on it, we'll touch on it. Marcus says, what's up, my good people? Welcome back, Lauren. Lauren, you got a lot of fans. Jesus Christ. Wow. All right, Double Will says, salute to some of my favorite content creators for dope conversation. Good to see you again, Lauren. All right, Lauren. I'm gonna have to break you off some of these super chats. A lot of these are for you. Mr. Stewart just became a member. Shout out to you, brother. Thank you, man. All right, Cheryl says, Lauren, happy to see you. Beautiful, welcome back. I love you. Again, Lauren got some fans. Jeez, that's Christ. Mr. Stewart again, he says, Nathan, you don't have to look at this space from the perspective of a police officer. We will come back to that. Cheryl also says, salute, Nathan. Appreciate your Cheryl. Sean, he just became a member. Again, you have to either become a member, be a mod or a super chat to comment. You guys might know that by now, but shout out to Sean. Cheryl, he says, the beauty, lucky Marie, I love you. All right, lucky, you got some fans as well. Black also became a member, shout out to you. Mr. Brown says, right, the collective dismissal of men's grievances is annoying. If they come in good faith, this would be cool and could get faster solutions. Appreciate you, brother.  Team Fatty, shout out to you, man, for becoming a member. Don Blackwell says, the government is the source of the problems, but the women choose the side of the government. If the women don't change, this is a lost cause. All right. Mr. Nathan Daly, what say you, brother? So let me first address the comment, the super chat nervous to not have to look at everything as like a police officer, and I'm not, I'm looking at things from the point of view of structure, organization, discipline. All these things are qualities that are needed to operate something effectively and efficiently. So it's not about being a police officer. It's about what works. You treat it like a business. Is this an organization? Okay, the organization needs to have what? Leaders, no leaders. When I came into this space and I heard about the Manisphere, I was like, okay, well, was there a website? Is there some type of structure?  Everybody's trying to be a chief. Nobody wants to be an Indian. Everyone, even those who claim to be leaders are fighting for each other's top spot, right? People talk about Kevin Samuel's pass away recipe to him. He was a pioneer in his own lane and in his own way, right? He's not the founder of the Manisphere, but we know he did something very unique. And so when he passed away, he left a power vacuum, right? And so people were clamming in all types. So when you see people's behaviors change, people started acting brand new. Why is that? Because there was no governing structure, right? There just wasn't. If you want to run something, something as epic as the Manisphere, which I think is a beautiful thing, you know? And when I came into space and I heard about it, I said, oh, this is dope. Just the concept and the idea of men having their own space, talk about their own issues, free from any type of criticism. I think it's a beautiful thing. My critique to the Manisphere, and I think to what the ladies were speaking on earlier, the reality is men didn't have a place to voice their opinions on a grand scale. This was a way to connect young boys, young men, men, older men, and come together and have a big barbershop talk. That's what it is at the end of the day. The conversations that we have in closed spaces that women aren't privy to. I think it's healthy. I think it's necessary. I just think it wasn't organized, right? And because of that, it went awry, right? You allowed people in, we shouldn't have been in. You allowed people in that weren't vouched for, who didn't have the skills or the certifications to speak on the things that they talked about. You should have had professional men to speak on certain issues, and then at the same time not ignoring men who had or dismissed their experiences. And so I just think that, again, women have always had spaces where they could freely speak bash men. So when we highlight the Manisphere and say, well, this is toxic about these things over here in the Manisphere that are toxic, and I can agree with that. But guess what? When you look at what the women are doing on their side, it's absolutely toxic, and no one is calling it out. So a lot of you don't know, but the FBI just actually put the term red pill under the you cannot say list, right? It's a domestic terrorist word now. So you think about how when men create a space and men are trying to express their views and how now there's legislation, right? There's the government getting involved to now say we wanna suppress their thoughts and their voices. The truth of the matter is men haven't had it like women have had it when it comes to expressing their grievances and their experiences. I just think that when people look at the Manisphere, they don't look at it properly. What I've seen when I've got here is that there is a, I guess you would say some type of the best way to describe it is like some sort of, there's a hierarchy, right? There's levels, right? You have one side is very, very extreme, and then the other side is very mild, very, very humble, very productive. And then you have those guys in the middle. I think sometimes and unfortunately, the most extreme of us in that space, you would say, are the loudest. They say the most toxic things. They say the most destructive things in order to get attention, in order to express some sort of a pain or some, like Lauren was saying, like a hurt that they haven't really resolved. And that's true. But guess what? Then you go over the woman side. They have the same problem over there. There's an extreme side.  You need to just divest from black men and go. So you got passport, bros. You got passport, what? I was gonna say hoes, cause it runs, but. That was the first thing that came to mind. So with respect to those ladies who were divesting, but there's what we're arguing is that the problem is on both sides. The dysfunction is on both sides equally. The only difference is women had a longer go at it than men. And so can men fix it? Absolutely, cause men are builders. Men will fix this space. It's gonna get fixed. It's gonna require real men to step up and fix it, right? And create an organization structure that's trusted, that's certified. You have a man who's an accountant over here. He's certified, you can verify. You have a man who's an attorney. We already got one in the space. He's certified, verified. You have a man who's into the criminal justice system. You have all these people, psychologists, sociologists. You have teachers, educators. You have doctors, shout out to Dr. T. S. Johnson, right? Who are certified men who can create a structure that you can trust and verify. And these men are gonna give positive, healthy content that's verifiable. And that's what we need to be encouraging it. I see, listen, that's how it needs to be done, right? We could talk about whether that's possible. I'm saying, what does it look like? And so now let's talk about woman standards, right? But I don't wanna take too much. Let me, before I get into it, cause Courtney said some stuff that was wild and Lauren said some stuff that was wild. All right, in that case, I'll come back to you. Let me, let me, let me, yeah, yeah. Let me, let me, let me jump to ill. I'm gonna jump to illa and then we're gonna come back. So illa, I saw you making faces when the lady said a few days, you know what I'm saying? So if you can remember, like what, what stuck out to you? I mean, Nathan kind of hit on a lot of things, you know? As far as his responses, I think he heard them too. I mean, it's just things we heard before. I think women don't realize the men are having a private conversation problem, you know? And I think that's the problem. The conversation is really a conversation amongst men too, with men. It's just being held publicly so it sounds radical. You know what I'm saying? It's like, if it was never heard, it wouldn't be issued but it's heard. But what we're seeing in this YouTube space is just a microcosm of the macrocosm. The same way other races look at our people and they point to the thug, they point to the drug dealer, they point to the stripper, they point to the undesirable aspects of our community and try to say, that's us. We're quick to say, oh, that's not everybody. But when it comes to fit not narrative, we do the same thing with our people. That's the same thing that other races do to us as the people, women are doing that to the manuscript. You find what you want to find. You know what I'm saying? Really what's out here is really not a reflection of what's being pushed, it's a reflection of what you gravitate towards. You don't have to listen to a man talking that crazy stuff. You can find somebody like Tia Saad Johnson. You can find what we need to talk. You can find certain channels that speak a different tone. The issue is women gravitate towards what they may feel is, you know, a person that they might be interested in and how he may dress or how he may look or how flashy his channel is. That's on the women. You attracted to what you're attracted to. You're not looking for knowledge. You're looking for a presentation. And a lot of times people who present those presentations they might not have the best message but they might have a toxic message. You know what I'm saying? I'm saying something about, you know, we want what we want. Women can want whatever they want to have. The problem is men realize our limitations and women don't, you know. If all women are looking after a certain kind of man, are they really listening to what's really happening in the world? Are they really, most men are not gonna make that much money. So you're looking for 10% of the men out of 90%. You're looking for 10% and you want all women to look for these types of guys. Just like men are being extreme and what they're looking for, women are doing the same thing. So how about you, man? And how about earning, man? There's two different things. But every woman wants a certain kind of guy and then when they get a bad experience they paint the whole gender of men with that experience. It's not our fault that women only want one kind of guy. That's all they want. So if all of y'all want one kind of man what kind of result are you gonna get? And a man is not even naturally monogamous. So if you give them all that money and you chasing after a man who has all this money man only gonna become more of a man the more he's empowered. He's only gonna be more of himself. So all these women are going towards the most empowered financially empowered men and then say, well, he wants another woman like, what do you expect? And I think that's the big difference between the man's argument and the woman's argument. Men are talking about what they're dealing with with the everyday woman. Women are talking about what they're dealing with a certain kind of man, a subculture of men not the general man. She dealing with either a street cat or a guy that's financially prominent. These are the two types of men that a lot of women are pursuing and their whole experiences are coming from this person. Men are dealing with the average woman to talk about his right. And like Nathan said, women been talking about what's been going on with men for 40 years. So women are trying to dissect a 10 year response to a conversation that's been happening for 50 years against me. So yeah, they might be responding maybe not in the best way. The men have just been speaking about this. Women been talking about men for so long that it's you're tripping if you question it because it's so normalized. And there's many ways that men are being exploited by the women in our culture. I'll give you Black Lives Matter, for example. That's an organization that was built off of the death of black men as far as what it was fighting for.  But the money that was raised from Black Lives Matter was actually given to a different community that had nothing to do with black men. There is no woman protesting that. There's women not having a right about that. So the stuff that women are being upset about is low-hanging fruit issues.  They're being echo chambers for certain political parties and the same popularity that men are doing in this manuscript, being an echo chamber for people is because they're popular. That's the way black culture is, period. Most black people are following voting patterns, not based on their actual data of the certain candidates' policies, but because the rapper endorses it, or because the artist that they like endorses it. That's the culture of black people, period. So we can't act surprised when that culture permeates its way into black YouTube. It's gonna be in everything we do. Our people have been about popularity and who's lit and who's not in the greatest society. You can't ask black YouTube to fix something that we already accepted in our regular culture. Look at the artists and the things, the suggestive things that's been in our music for the last 50, 40 years. That's already been here before black YouTube. Nobody's protesting that. They were saying bees ain't this in the 90s. Freak Nick was in what, 93? So we always had these issues of popularity moving the goalposts or moving the interests of our people way before black YouTube. So I don't think we're gonna fix it with black YouTube because it didn't start in black YouTube. It started in our culture, it started in our society. We have people that are not studious unless it comes to our bottom line for our personal selves. We'll read when it comes to getting money for our personal selves, but when it comes to the greatest society, it's about what's popular. It's about what looks good. It's not about policy. It's not about what a person's actual bottom line is. It's not even about big body of work. It's not even about proof. It's about what's popular. So why wouldn't that same attitude bleed its way into black YouTube?  We never move about data. We move about what's popular and what's trendy. And that's the same thing that's gonna happen in black YouTube. It's just a microcosm of the macrocosm. So Lauren, I see you taking notes. I appreciate that. I like people who take notes. I got a question. You want me to go to Courtney first? You want Courtney, yeah. Okay, all right, Courtney, but you next though. Okay. All right, Courtney, what are your thoughts, darling? What are your thoughts? The thing with this space is that this high mentality of these weird ass talking points, but because no one does critical thinking, no one pushes back on it. So the one thing that I keep hearing and Lauren's talked about this as far as the Oprah, you guys had Oprah majority of us wasn't born. The women that are around here and even the men that usually the analytics on mind is the average age of about 34 to 44. When Oprah was out, when Ricky Lake was out, we were in elementary school. And to use that as a talking point where you guys have always had this for 40 years, lucky it wasn't even 40, they haven't been here. Me, I was a child. So I haven't had a space to talk or anything. We were used where you had Ebony in essence. Well, they was all about black love. They wanted black marriage and makeup and all this. So this idea that we have been shitting on black men for years and now this is a space where men can go about their grievances. Women necessarily hasn't had a space like that too. We haven't as far as men might. And if we have, then you have to name it instead of keep using the same old where you had color purple. I know I keep so tired of hearing about that movie. I wasn't born. Tyler Perry. Tyler Perry. I mean, he's clearly transsexual. So I mean, and those are, and that's the man. I mean, these are men that are promoting this. These are men that are directing. And people talk about TLC and all this. Well, one of the producers aren't men. So I need to know what are these spaces that men, women have always had grievances. And the grievances that women that are super extreme on the other side, as far as with aborting like babies. No one seems to ask why she's saying that. No one does. And then when someone like me or Lucky tried to explain, oh, you want her side? No, it's the critical thinking that it's like, we're trying to tell you that this is a response. Those divesters and the swirlers and the Cynthia G's came after the fact of a man of spear. Cynthia G was in this space. And she was on multiple panels with Kevin Samuels and O'Shea. And because of a response to how she felt within this space, that was a response too. Is it extreme? Yes. Is it radical? Yes. Is it ridiculous? Yes. But it was a response.  When that plays in a woman's psyche, that creates a Cynthia G. But no one wants to have that conversation because then it will have some accountability on men. And in this space, men are not holding men accountable. It's just for women. But however, in order for this to have a solution, we have to hold ourselves both men and women accountable. And it's not.   And that's just what it is. Let me, let me, let me respond. I was gonna come to you next. I was gonna come to you next. When I put you beside me, you next. Just know that, go ahead. All right, Courtney. Let's go. I'm not, I'm not saying you're wrong. You're saying I'm inaccurate. You're not accurate, right? And I think you label, you label a lot of things that has a lot to do with the conditioning. We're talking about psychology, right? We're talking about the power of media, the influence of media as it relates to women, right? As it relates to society, you can't just brush off a Tyler Perry movie like it doesn't have influence. You can't just brush off an Ebony magazine like it doesn't have influence. We're talking about, this is how people are conditioned through media, through music. You talked about TLC. Yeah, music. I don't want no scrubs. Scrubs of the guys can't get no luck, right? To the left, to the left, right? So again, all of these things are relevant when you talk about the conditioning of the mind. Right now, what's going on with young girls, right? I hit the dangly thing in the back of my throat, right? This is, these are lyrics from music that young kids, we see them on TikTok, on social media. You see mothers, daughters, mothers and sons dancing to hyper-sexualized music. It matters. So when you talk about, okay, Oprah was, I wasn't here when Oprah was here. Yeah, but your mother was, your father was, the conditioning started way before you. And so what happens when your parents are already conditioned? They are filtering that training, this new culture, this reinvented way of looking at the world, looking at relationships based on their influences that they receive, whether in their environment, their community, through media. And that stuff is funneled down and filtered through the children, right? And then guess what? Then you're hanging out with your girlfriends, right? Your mother, your grandpa, then they're having these conversations that you should know you start getting influenced. They talked about the power of sex in the city and how that ended up shifting an entire culture of women, right, to do this whole, now we talk about being a city girl, right? Just the simple concept of a slogan has now invoked this new hyper-sexual response, right? Something simple of Netflix and chill. This is media. This is the power of media. So I think we down, you were looking at it because it probably didn't have an effect on you. We're talking about the masses, right? We're talking about the masses. We're not talking about you. I think a lot of times when people hear this stuff, they try to put themselves in it and say, listen, I'm better than that. This thing I didn't fall for. Courtney, we're not talking about you falling for it. We're talking about all these other, right? Sheep-minded individuals, bless their heart. It's not their fault. But a lot of people are very weak-minded and very easily, easily influenced. We talk about the power of music. We got guys rapping about killing each other to the point where they had to create legislation against it.  Has it changed anything? So I think the problem is we don't, a lot of us don't recognize how the powers that be are enemies weaponized these things like media against us to program us. It's social programming. And they do that against community groups in order to create dysfunction. And they've done a phenomenal job. Just recently, Cardi B and Offset, which one is the one that's married to him? Offset. She married to Offset. They did a McDonald's commercial, right? They did a McDonald's commercial. They're not over here talking about vegan food, eating healthy. They did a McDonald's commercial. Why? Who do you think they're targeting? Us. So no one's talking about how McDonald's is killing black people. We're dying by what we put in our mouths. It's our number one cause of death, it's food.  So are we projecting the healthy type of advertising and marketing that will stay our community in the right direction? They put this propaganda when they dress, they had Jonathan Majors in a pink flamingo outfit with his lips out. They got Jonathan Majors and they got your boy, you know, all hugged up, you know. I mean, they got black men in dresses. So why? Why are they over feminizing our men? So I think to your point, you're correct in reference to it. Hold on to it, hold on to it.  I have a correction. She's about to pass out.  Okay, cut up please. Okay. Quick, real quick, real quick. She ain't even ready. No, I'm sorry. No, I'm saying real quick with the correction. Go ahead. Okay, because he's conflating the two. Now I brushed off the tile of pairs because I understand that image matters. So I understand that they are, it's an influence. What I was specifically speaking on is black women having a space to air grievances. Oprah was not a black space for women to air grievances. That was really for white women. Tala Perry wasn't a space for black women to air grievances or a problem. These are the conditioning of those particular shows which was run by white folks was to create an image of us, to keep us separated. But that wasn't what I was speaking on. Ila was saying black women have had a space to speak. What I'm saying is that those instances that you're using wasn't spaces for black women to necessarily speak. It was for a space for white people to continue on the conditioning to keep us separate. Oh, I see what you're saying. Some of them too conflating different things. All right, so as what you call space, this space, you two didn't exist then. Right. This space is a form of media. This is a medium that people use to convey a message. So instead of calling it a space, let's call it access to media to push a narrative, push an agenda to create something that isn't accurate, but yet when people see it, it causes confusion. And so the reason why people point out things like Tala Perry isn't because he's doing these great works. It's because of how they're depicting black men, right? Because when you watch it, there's always that bad dark-skinned guy who's acting up and then the light-skinned guy comes and saves the day, right? Am I tripping? Lauren, you're right, you're right, you're right. It's Jamar Moore, it's Jamar Moore. It's Jamar Moore, always sipping. Jamar Moore, come, he's super simple holly. He shows up with the cape on. That's one movie. We're going to come back to that. We're going to come back to that. We're going to come back to that. So Lauren, so Lauren, I want you to hit your top three notes and then we're going to go on to the next thing. Top three, go ahead. I'll try to make it quick. I think so, we heard a lot, right? We heard a lot. Never mind the system, the media, right? All of that, yes, definitely contributes to what's being put out there. I want to bring it back to what we can control, right? We exist in this space, this YouTube space. It all starts with self, right?  It's really hard for men and women to like to sift through the mess. There's not like a narrative that's agreed upon in this space. Like let's be clear, like someone just said, you can go to this channel for this. You can go to this person for this. Like if this was an organized movement, I think we can see progress. I think that's where all of this is like really, I guess falling off, honestly. This is where all the confusion starts. So you went, I say all that to say, if the argument is going to be, well, women had this space, so this is our space. And you say, women, y'all been doing this and it's been a mess, well, me and Lee, show us how it's supposed to be done. In fact, the Ministry is actually looking just as caddy as the women's space that y'all say. You know what I mean? When we say we need leaders, like Lee, who are the producers and the managers for these artists that are making the songs about dangling down the throat? Like, or whatever, you know, all these lyrics that we wanna pull out and say, well, this is what the woman, if we had men that are like, look, I know this is what sales, but we wanna change it up, right? Men are typically in these decision-making spaces. Most men lead in the policy realm. And... I like it. I like it. So again, it's like men need to lead, change the narrative. So I just wanted to say that. Like, so we are naming all of these big pieces, but all of the pieces that we're naming are mostly led by men. Women don't listen. Hold it, hold it, hold it, hold it, hold it, hold it. Because we don't, but... Okay, pause, pause right there, hold on, Allen. Lauren, can you please repeat what you just said? I said, bring it down, let's go. I'm not gonna argue with that. We don't. So it's hard as men. I like to consider myself a manly guy, right? It's very difficult as men. Men can only control the woman closest to them. Mother, aunties, sisters, girlfriend, wives. Outside of that, well, outside of that, the reality is this. It's not every man's job to control every woman that he doesn't have influence and power over. When you say lead, a man cannot lead a woman who does not listen. Can I tell you? Go ahead. So, of course. I didn't want to let him finish his thought, but I wanted to like pause, because when I say lead, I mean in terms of writing policy, right? Changing the laws. Like that, like if you're gonna hold a position, do the right thing with whatever position you have, right? If you're gonna be a manager in the music industry or a producer in the music industry, like be the change. We're working with this thing at my job. I ain't gonna say what I work, but there's a point of, when you get to a point of dissatisfaction with whatever problem you're trying to solve, you have two choices. You can change it or you can get in line and do with, you know, following line and just continue to do what it's been in doing and disrupting whatever it is, right? If we're all saying we're dissatisfied, change it, right? And if that means you need to unsubscribe to somebody's channel, you need to not go up on somebody's panel, you need to get the hell up off YouTube, i.e. me, and not, and not, like, and not, you know, give my two cents on whatever topic. Like I just, I'm not gonna get in line with it because I don't believe in it, but because we don't believe, we don't believe in standing on our own and we feel like we gotta prove something. Step away, what do you, who are you? So, Lauren, you bring up a good point. Let me just touch this real quick and then Alan, let me let you jump back on it. This is, the reality is that the caveat that we're missing in this conversation is the great incentivizer, which is money, which is money, money incentivizes bad behavior. That's all we're seeing. All we're seeing is that you're saying, okay, these music execs, the guys doing this, the men are doing that. Yeah, guess what? They're also paying the women to actually participate in these behaviors that you're seeing, right? They're also buying the music that are actually portraying these lyrics and things of that nature. The men are complicit in this and so are the women. So at the end of the day, when we talk about how do we steer away from the dysfunction? It's hard when it's incentivized with money, right? Money is what the glue is. Our love for money is how we end up becoming crabs in a barrel. It's why we disrespect each other. It's why we insult each other. It's why we can put out, you know, inappropriate content, right, for the stock value. We care more. So let's get granular real quick because it segues perfectly into my next point and I'm gonna start with you, Nathan. How do men, and then, Lucky, I'm coming to you, so be ready, how do men create and incentivize the women we complain about? So this is where the men are the problem. Oh, here it comes, here it comes for me. Yeah. So the truth of the matter is, you know, this is why I call myself a red pill assassin because I don't agree with the talking point because the reality is this, at the end of the day, the men incentivize bad behavior. So the best way to correct something is remove yourself out of it, just like Lauren said. If you don't, people say, hey, we need to boycott this channel. We need to step away, ladies. Well, ladies, this has been running the same way for years. Have you felt some kind of way? You don't go up, you don't show up, right? Don't participate. Budweiser, right? The Bud Light, I'm sorry, Bud Light is going through this thing right now where they put a trans woman on an advertising for the can. And the people who like Bud Light, they weren't happy about that. And you know what they did? They decided not to buy the Bud Light anymore. You know how much it cost them in the course of five days? It cost the company $6 billion. Guess what Bud Light said? Hey, y'all, I'm sorry, we're taking the trans off the can. Trans off the can, why? It cost me $6 billion. What's the moral of that story? That in order to actually make change, you have to make sacrifice. And the way you make sacrifices, which are money. And so what black people are saying is we don't like this content. We don't like how we're being portrayed. We don't like the lyrics. We don't like the movies. We don't like Bad Girls Club. We don't like the way we're being portrayed on media. Yet there's always a black person showing up to do the job. There's always a black person willing to take their clothes off. There's always a black person willing to twerk upside down. Why? Because they're getting paid. The reason the problem is, then you have men who are willing to pay them to do it. So how do men now are complaining about the same monster that they're creating with their dollars? Oh, these only fan hoes are out here. Well sir, you're supplying. You're creating the lifestyle that you're complaining about. So to Lauren's point, there is a form of leadership that men have to take. We have to ignore them. We have to remove our money, remove our influence away in order to see the change. What's the problem with men? A lot of them don't wanna do it because they're getting a benefit from it. What's the benefit? A lot of it is sexual benefits from it. So that's the conundrum. And the enemy in this big trick bag realized that in order for men to make a change, men have to make a sacrifice. Women have to not accept money to make the change themselves. Men are gonna have to accept that they're gonna have to abstain from a certain type of pleasure in order to get the results that they want. Our men are gonna do it. Go ahead, Lauren. I was gonna say the prime example of Black China. She's shut down her stuff.  There you go. Yes. Like it gets to a point where you just, you make the change. Integrity. Thank you. How many of us have it though? None. How many of us have it? Who said it? Who was it? It was Lucky. Lucky came up and said integrity is what's missing. That's what's missing. So in order for us to get to this higher place, this place where we can compete on a higher level, you cannot have a love for money.  They simply put out a phone call, send out some emails and guess what?   Hey man, I know you're supposed to get about 10 million from them. You gotta be on what? On code. And on code means what? Even if it costs me money, the greater good is the image. And how many of us are willing to do that? Lucky. First of all, it's a round of applause, a round of applause for the boy, Nathan. So Lucky, same question to you. How are men, how are men creating the women we complain about? You sleep with them. I mean, I get y'all have these long speeches. We wanna come up here and say it's because of all these. You guys sleep with them. You guys have always been led by your penises. I think it has something to do with God. I think the real power is women. I think there's a reason why they say behind every strong great man is a woman. She has to be the brains because men constantly think what their penises. Now I get that y'all like to think that you guys are smarter. And we can withhold it. That's why the idea of de-discipline scares a lot of men who actually have the options because yeah, you don't like holes, but holes serve a purpose. There have always been holes since the beginning of time and they will always be there as long as men sleep with them. The thing that men keep talking about sexual liberation and the power that women have, these women would not have the power that they have if they couldn't say things like, I'll take your man or he like in my picture, oh, you thought I was feeling you. They wouldn't have these things to say if y'all stop being like lassie and your tongue hanging out every time she get a new BBL. They said I don't like these bodies, but like I say, a Bernie's Burgos, being they face the same man saying, you don't like this. He gonna be singing a different tune and his wallet is open. So I think what that does is that sends a signal to women that they have to then look like these women like the video it was in where you can't identify the good girl from the bad girl because they're standing too close to each other. Now you have the girl who is not like these other girls but because she has a BBL, you're gonna stamp her and say she's just like these other girls when there is a, I believe women get those things as for example, because they want to but I also think we have to acknowledge that men encourage those same things that they don't like that women do. So if you do not like it, like I said earlier, change your attraction. The problem is most of the men, you guys as girlfriends or wives was probably in band practice. She wasn't a cheerleader. I think that's the reality is they don't want to date within their lane. They're most of the women that they can get is the potential resbutia. They don't want resbutia. They want to get Beyonce when you have to get, you have to have the check off list. You have to have money. That's just the reality of it. We can go all the way back to black people saying we were kings, not all of y'all. Some of y'all were peasants. Some of us should have been out there working. But even if you go back then the young girls have always been admiration to the king. He has money. He's this. All of that is power and women are attracted to power.  Also, if you say I have money and you have a setup that look like you have money or this ain't no shot at Kevin Samuels but they did say he hung around form shops. So if you have the illusion where you're showing something you then can influence the people like Ella is saying because it's more so what does this package look like? If it look like it can get me money. If it look like it can sell me something, I believe it. This is why we rejected Jesus when he came because he wasn't on those stallion horse that had the little cuff links, you know, the little Budweiser horse. He wasn't on nothing fancy and he wore sandals and I'm sure he looked like our everyday man but no, he was supposed to come looking like this. He was supposed to be this, you know, this high value man and I think that's why we all get confused is because we think the person that's leading influence is supposed to look a certain way when I don't know who said something about boycott and I think it was Nathan. The first thing I always think of is Martin Luther King and things like that. We could never have a people that say, you know what Walmart is treating their employees or their black employees a certain way, let's boycott it. You wanna know why? Because if it's around Black Friday and I get to get all the Blu-ray DVDs for $1.99, I don't care what your movement is, I'm going there. That's how our culture is because we are designed to be consumers of things that don't invest into our families. We're taught to be consumers and I don't, I get we like to blame media but every culture has media. It's something about China that says, okay, my kid can only be on games two hours a week. Why can't we incorporate that in our house? So I don't care what they're showing in media. If in my household and in my community says, this is the structure, that's how we show structure. What is it about the Nigerian community that says our kids are gonna be doctors, our kids are gonna be this? How are they raising influence in their kids? These celebrities are known all over the world. It's how we are structuring our kids. So I think it's sound cute to blame Tyler Perry and stuff, we could do that. But the solution is we don't really teach our kids anything. We just, we raise them.  If you're taught to be a consumer, it seems more like a deal to say, I'll pay 100% then go 50-50 with a man. So there's a lot of things that are after, but it's sound cute when y'all make it a long thing though. Alan, play the clap track. Play the clap track. No clap for that. No clap for that. All right, all right, applause. That's what I'm saying. She made some good points. She made some good points.  Well, Ella, Ella, Ella, let me, let me come to you brother. The question is, how do men specifically? Cause again, we're going to get to the women. I'm trying to do this methodically. How do men create the women we complain about? About listening to women. I think that's the number one man thing big men do. Get the man to clap sound with that. Let him build, let him build, let him build, let him build. I don't mean that in a disrespectful way. You know what I'm saying? But women live for moments. And when men listen to women's momentary decisions, they lose, they lose them. Cause women live double lives. They have who they present to the world and then they have who they really are. And who they present to the world is always something that's already co-signed by the world.  I ain't going to deal with them. I'm going to deal with men and women. They've always given us this image of women, these damsel in distress. You know, she just, she just in the tower waiting for her chastity to get broken by some man on a white horse. So subconsciously, men still feel like, you know, I have to save her and I have to go out my way to show this overbearing form of affection. And they lose every time. Because just because women are emotional and sensitive, doesn't mean that the epitome of the energy of love and that's where men go wrong because we associate love with emotions and sensitivity. Women are very sensitive and emotional. That don't mean they're so-called wanna be in love. They like the high of the feeling of love and it can come and it can go.  But when you see, like they say, behind every good man, there's a woman. Behind every man, there's a woman, period. Cause behind every good man, there's a woman. But behind every bad man, there's 10 women. So we say a lot of things, but when you look at what's happening in reality, the man who gets the woman is never the guy who's the gentleman. I'm saying they love abusers and I'm not going to go that far. But women, what they say they want and what they really want is never really the same thing. You know what I'm saying? It just, it just never is. So I feel like what men can do is just stop listening to women. And I think women need to check other women and men need to check other men. And then once we get the proper decorum amongst ourselves, then we come to the table and talk together. Because certain things women gonna say in front of us that they just gonna say because it keeps their image in a certain way. And men are just gonna say whatever they wanna say. So women gonna misunderstand the brashness of men and women and men are gonna misunderstand the image that women try to portray. That's why we need to fix ourselves amongst ourselves and then come back. Because if men keep listening to what women say, they're gonna be lost. Because what they say they want and what they actually want is two different things. One point. All right. So Courtney, obviously, obviously you're next. You're next, but wait, let me read some of these super chats. And then I hope you have a good answer. All right. So Marcus Evans, he says, my brother, Ella, the drinks on me, bro, you preaching. Rich, the goat, he says, all of those cultures don't put government between themselves and in-house structure and accountability as facts. Dub Will says, band girls were the biggest freaks. So that's not necessarily a bad thing. Facts, facts, I know this firsthand. Pesky, he says, or Pesty, I'm sorry, he says, lucky to truth, clap, clap, clap, resist, temptation, facts. Marcus, he says, I love you, Lucky, but really, maybe I think it's something you said. You can't let them go. Yeah, it was something you said that rubbed them the wrong way. Better you, he says, I think the better question is, how can the man is for your old women accountable when many have demonstrated inability to do so for themselves? Why should a woman follow if a man isn't modeling leadership? That's fair. Pesty, he says, as long as the black people, in quotes, are mentioned, we are part of it, not willingly though, not willingly though, until usually, I don't know what's going on with my screen, usually dragged into it. Preach Brother Nate, shout out to Nathan dropping facts. Marcus, shout out to you for being a new member.  Pookie Ray Ray Hyena Linus may not feel good, but these words are here for a reason and they describe behavior, it's nothing personal. Marcus also says, can't argue with Ella, he's right. And Chicago Rilla is now a member of the We Need to Talk channel. Round of applause for Chicago. That's the boat right there, man. All right, Sherwin says, Nathan, you're a bit incorrect. There have been a few managed fear conferences men have actually connected in person and networked with each other. JT says, we should mostly ignore those who are loud. Chicago Rilla, he says, my only pushback to them doesn't have a, to men don't have a space or didn't have a space is a space to speak on their grievances is rap music from Kay Cuff?    To Abish is Abish, we dominated that platform for decades, big dog. No one talks about that. And we don't get to it, we don't get to it. Black Nerd Talks, he says, I think we underestimate the trauma and the pain of black, oh, we already read this one. All right, hold up, wait a minute, we got two more. Marcus, he says, talk, Illa, Illa, you spitting, brother? Hush, Illa.  That's facts. What she misses is that women are a slave to their emotional desires. There's a reason having game works. That's a good comeback. How did I miss that? I thought I was just speaking on the men. We gon' get to the women, we gon' get to the women. Courtney, how do men, black men, create the problematic women in our community that we love to complain about? You put those women on a pedestal. Right now, if I post a picture of me in a church dress, I'll get 50 likes. Oh my God, if I put on a bikini, I'll show some of these. I'm gon' get 2K. And what it is, you want it, you want to see it. That's why.  We see the women that you give attention to and we emulate it. But let me say this, I had some pushback for you. We shouldn't listen to women about what? The thing is about the space, no one is specific. You shouldn't listen to women about what? What should we have to do? Can I answer right now? You want me to answer right now? Yeah, I sure do. About how to deal with you and about how to perceive you and about how to be a man for you. We shouldn't listen to you 80% of the time, no.  That doesn't mean that men just want sex. That doesn't prove that.  That's like me. If I post a picture of me with $10,000 sitting on a yacht, women go on like that picture, not because they're vain, it's because I'm appealing to her natural receptivity, which is security. A man's natural view is sexuality. So it's not that he just wants to look at that. If you put it out there, it's gonna attract him because that's what a man wants. He wants your sexuality, ultimately. Not saying that's all he wants, but that's what he wants. A woman wants your security. So that doesn't mean that's all he wants. That just means that's what you put out. He's gonna look at it. That doesn't mean that's all a man wants. I'm not saying that's all he wants. What I'm saying is that with women, we look at what you're attracted to and want to become that because we want you to be attracted to us. That don't mean we're attracted to that because you got your body out. That means having your body out is something that men is gonna look at. That doesn't mean that's what we want you to look like all the time. Okay, what I'm saying as far as with women, it's hard for us to differentiate between what you're just liking and what you want to be with. We look at it that this is what this man has given attention to and I want him to give me attention. What kind of attention? And that's how a lot of women think. Who's got the full attention or relationship attention? What I'm saying is not. Because sexual attention is one thing. But you're not understanding what I'm saying is that a lot of times we don't understand that. Okay, Ella, hold on. And that's why a lot of women are getting in this space because women don't understand a lot of women. We say men are simplistic, but we try to make you as complex as us. So therefore we get in the space to try to figure out what you want. We listen to Kevin Samuels to see, well, this is what men are wanting. And so that's how we dive in. That's why you have women in this space to get a better understanding of men. Because when we look at it, we look at it as the one that you give attention to is what you really want. So, and who's fault is that? Yours. Who's fault is that? You're blaming men for women's lack of leverage. Can I blame anyone? No, no, no, I'm saying, I'm saying you're blaming. I am. You're making, you're suggesting that it's a man's fault for why women make the decisions they make. The, here's, that's exactly what you're saying. I didn't say that though. What I'm saying is that, because this, is that not a fact? Is it not a fact that these women that show themselves, have the BBLs get more attention than a regular woman that doesn't? Okay. Is that not a fact? Just yes or no. Just yes or no. It is a fact. Well, I don't know. Wait one second. Wait one second. No, no, no. It is a fact. I never said before. If I'm not aware as far as with men's nature and I'm not sure how to get one cause I wasn't raised with a man. I didn't have a daddy. And I see the men are going and liking and admiring this particular woman, which you said emphatically is because of how she dresses and all the, and yes, she's going to get more attention that I am going to assume. Okay. Because this is what men want. Okay. My thing is you can't shake your head if women are telling you this is how we think. I didn't disagree with how you think. I'm not disagreeing with how you think. I'm saying you're thinking wrong. And I said, who's fault is that? You made that, you interpreted that, right? That's a lack of logic. Cause here's the reality. And this is what Ella was trying to point out to you, right? Ella's trying to point out to you is if you put yourself out sexually and you get attention, yes, you're going to get attention. Here's the question though. At the end of the day, what type of man are you attracting with that attention? There are men who do not like that. There are men who like women who are modest who are demure, right? So again, if you want this type of man, and he described it, if I'm a man, I'm over here with all this money, I'm leading with my money. You're leading with sex. So yeah, that's going to get attention. I know if I show my bank account and I show my credit score and all this other stuff, you know, sisters might try to holler, but guess what? Credit score. Listen, listen. He just talking about it. Seven, six, seven, I just mentioned credit score. She got a little excited. But the truth of the matter is, the truth of the matter is, you lead by what you want to attract. I don't lead like that. I lead with my character, I lead with my personality. Why? Because you have never seen Lauren looking sideways. But again, if you lead with what you're willing to attract, it's like bait.  And what bites on that hook is what you get. So what I throw out there, you have men who don't want that. Granted, it gets your attention. It's not men's fault that a woman can't distinguish between lust, right? And actual real desire. That's not a man's fault. That's your fault as a person, as an individual. You can't blame that on men. No one is blaming it. No one is blaming it on men. And on the contrary, that's what I'm saying. That's why women have been coming to this space to get a better understanding. I'm clear. I'm not right. But it's common sense. Is it not common sense that if you put yourself out sexually to get it? Well, then that is the reason why Ella said that men should not be listening to what women want because they're confused themselves. Well, that's why. But in order to listen to us, you have to understand this is the confusion. Well, bless your heart. You get it. How in the world- But how is that confusion? Wait. How in the world do you- I think what's going on is like a lot of, save us all. In our society, I want to try to bridge because we're talking past each other. In our society, women's currency is attention, right? Women's her ability to gain attention, especially her ability to gain attention of that guy or those guys, is her currency. Men, you know, our currencies are ability to gain the attention of multiple women, right? So I think women confuse the attention of men as the desire of men because women's sexual attention is usually closely tied to like her desire for a man because of everything that's at stake for her. And I think to your point, Nathan, because of them conflating those two things, they get caught up in the wrong competition.  And I said this in one of my videos. A lot of women think that the game is about being chosen first, but the game is really about being chosen last. Because when a man is young, it's counterintuitive. It doesn't sound good.  He is not thinking about long-term. He's not thinking about who's gonna be the best grandmother to my grandchildren. He's thinking about, and when those women get used, when those women get used up, when those women get left to the wayside or whatever, it's gonna come down to who are the solid women that are worth building with. Unfortunately, some of those solid women got passed over. But I think one of the things women should learn from this space is what men actually want long-term and what they want for the night are not the same thing. But I'm gonna flip it on you now so we can get this ball rolling again. How do men, I mean, I'm sorry, how do women create the men that they complain about? The exact same way. We give attention to the bad boys. We give attention and we give sex to the men that are not about their business, but in hopes of changing. So that's what we do, we do the exact same thing. Illa, I'm gonna get to you in a minute, bro. But it's, we give the exact attention. We give the attention to the bad boys. We give those guys attention. We give those guys, you know, our bodies. A lot of reasons why we do is women think that we can change a man. And when we think that we can change a man and get that bad boy that is able to give us all this, but not that, and we want him to change it because it helps our ego. It helps us to feel like, oh, he changed for me. It makes, it gives us a feeling of an accomplishment. It boosts our ego and it gives us self-esteem, unfortunately. So that's why we do it. Let me say this real quick before you go to Lauren. In this space, and I saw a super chat that y'all wanna get about how long I've been in this space. Okay. The men in this space want women to think like men. I am not a man. So you want me to think like a man, but I am not.  I am a woman. So I think like a woman. Me being able to understand and listen and have correct dialogue is something different from me being you. I am never gonna be a man, nor do I want to. I think different. God made me think different. I'm supposed to be different. I'm supposed to help you not be like you. And my help is any good leader understands that you have to listen to your cohorts. You have to listen to them. You guide them in the right way, but a leader understands that they have to, you can do this, I'll put you in charge of this. And a good leader doesn't take everything on his shoulder. He knows how to delegate. And as a man, it's supposed to know how to delegate. That also goes with women. Women pay a part more than just cooking and cleaning. We have insight. We have intuition. God enabled us to see things that sometimes men are not able to see. So a good woman on your side is going to uplift you and be better to help you. So yes, you do need to listen to women. Yes, you need to guide some women. That's why we need leaders, but the idea of you don't need to listen to a woman, then what do you want a woman for? What do you want a wife for?  Illa, this to you. You know, the thing is, no, I should agree with it. It's counterintuitive. But the reason I agree, I agree with Illa in the sense that men should not seek direction from women. I think that's what he's trying to say. But there is a certain benefit. Me and Courtney were talking about this earlier. Women by nature are chaotic. Men who've dealt with women understand that at the core. And it sounds bad, but it's the reality. At the core, women are chaotic. And men, the reason we're logical and the reason we're so regimented in our thinking is because we're meant to guide the flow of chaos that is a woman. But there is power behind that flow of chaos. So I don't think a man should get guidance from a woman in the sense of like purpose from a woman. But there are some things that a woman is gonna see that you may not be able to see as a man. Lauren, I'ma go to you. How do women create the men that we complain about? You're muted, there we go. All right, so all the things that Courtney said, but I'm gonna add one. We end up becoming Barbara the Builder. Like we out here, I guess like building the man that we want, right? Like at some times giving them a place to stay, you know, putting clothes on their back. Like we are literally coddling men in some way, you know? And so we talk about, you know, those men who are hobo-sexuals that jump from house to house. Well, they only do that because women let a man, right? Like we just do it. So I think in some cases, like we feel like we can build a man and that's how we contribute to the men that we complain about. So all the things that Courtney said, yes. And then just, we think that we can just, you know, create the man that once you get him to a point that you're satisfied, then he like bet, I'm off to the next chick and you left in a dust, so. All right, ladies, are y'all ready for what the man have to say? Yeah, but I didn't answer, go ahead. Oh yeah, I'm sorry, I'm sorry I skipped you. Lucky. How do. I always get skipped, it's okay. I'm sorry, I apologize. Maybe if I was loud. I'll do better. No, I'm not loud, Lucky. I apologize. How do men, I mean, I'm sorry, how do women create the men that we complain about? I, let me first say Nathan is wrong on the aspect of it is definitely men's fault. Because if you're the leader, heavy as the head that wears the crown, whether or not you were taught to be a leader, you're what you put out women respond to. So yeah, it's our responsibility. I understand we should have common sense, but common sense is not common. And if it's something that you're unfamiliar with and you don't really see too many men rushing out to get married anyway, the signs can seem blurry as to what I really want for the night versus what I actually want to marry because sometimes men marry hoes anyway. But to answer the question, I think that women are just going with what they feel at the moment. So therefore they may then they chase this kind of honeymoon phase of a high. So if once they're in a relationship, they're not really taught to actually go through the notions and the ups and downs of a relationship, they're usually taught to quit by way of their homegirls, their parents or things like that or they're, I'm gonna say their mother, it's more so, oh, if this person isn't doing this, you should next them to another one, you can get another man. That's kind of like what you're taught. So you're not really having like, like somebody set an incentive, they're not really getting an incentive to stick out those relationships. So I think they create the men that they complain about by like Lauren said, coddling them or also they start to negotiate their standards. So they'll say, these are my standards. But when you look at what we tolerate, what we compromise our standards for, it is because we don't understand if there has to be a season of us being alone before we actually get set, man. I like that she said, you get 50 likes on a picture with a church dress, but you get more in a bikini. If you went through the 50 likes, maybe if those were men, those were men that actually wanted you outside of your sexual, of you being sexual. They want something more than that. So I think that's the confusing factor is because when you are presenting yourself like quote unquote, church girl work with more modesty or just something different than usual, you can find yourself single longer. The same way I've experienced before being on dates or just listening to men, you get intimidated that you have not been around the block as much as other women. Cause some men may say, I want a woman that's more experienced. I want a woman that's more like this. That's not all men, but you also have to constantly understand that you may be rejected. You may endure a lot of different things that women don't like to be rejected. So they go to usually what they know they can get or something that they can control, which is usually the men that they don't want to be with or respect. So that's just what I think. All right, Illa, I'm gonna jump to you, man. How are these women creating these men, these pukeys, ray rays, whatever we call them that we complain about in the community? I mean, like I said earlier, like they only want a certain kind of guy and they don't want to deal with the ramification of their own desires. It's like, people can have whatever they want. You know what I'm saying? It's a free country, ain't no church in the wild. You can do whatever you want to do in this world, but just deal with what comes with it. It's not all fault that most women are attracted to a certain phenotype of men. You know what I'm saying? You might have a street vibe, or he might be a promoter. Like they like men who live a certain fast life. They're not going after the regular nine or five God. Not saying they should deal with just the average God. That's what they want.  You want a certain kind of guy who's already living a fast life, who's exposed to many different places, many different women. You want the excitement of being with that God, but being with that God come with, being with that guy and other women. And women don't want to deal with that. So I'm not saying women need to lower their standards. I think they just need to mature and what they find appealing. Because if you really get to the bottom of what they appeal to, it's really just some television hip hop fantasy that really don't exist. It's not based on a real image. Most of these women that's dealing with these guys who give them a third degree of put fit, like they not moving fast enough. What kind of guy you talking about? That's the question. It's always a dude who, he might trap a little bit, he got a promoter, he's living a lifestyle that keep him on the go, keep him in a lot of women's faces. And he's sought out a lot of women. Women want to break that man and make them just his. Like I said, they don't respect the nature of man. The reason why these publications are so important when men bring them up about different TV shows. We know that you wasn't, I wasn't, I was a kid when them shows came out. I was like 10, 11, 12. I don't understand the context of it. But what I did realize that these shows were speaking to a demographic of people that created a certain mentality. So whether you was there or not, it doesn't matter. That's why we're able to talk about the past and our ancestors because we wasn't dead drunk slavery, but we still talk about reparations. We still talk about civil rights. Even though you wasn't there to experience it, you're still dealing with the ramifications of those trains of thought. And the same thing goes with these women. By the time you guys became adult women, the culture of not understanding and not caring about men has already been permeated in the society. That's why it's such strength. It's even, it's like unfathomable to even hear a man complain. It's like, what are you talking? It don't even sound real because by the time y'all got here, the damage in the work was already done. So you're already living in a society where a man's voice that's objective to women is already being taboo already. They already put in the groundwork to create this world, this social dynamic that we live in today.  Do you have a problem getting women? Not at all. Nathan, do you have a problem getting women? Alan, do you have a problem getting women? I struggle a little bit. Stop the cat. Do you have a problem with women? You don't. Are you moving? You don't. What they admitted, Courtney? What they really admitted? Because I get so tired of this as if there's not men that's about business that are real life leaders that don't have the access to women. Courtney, do they get the women they want to marry? I think that is a different question. I don't. Why would they get women? You're right. But I'm saying this, it is a lot, money don't make you a man. But here's the thing, those women that are going for those thugs are not women you want to marry. I mean, let's keep it a thousand. Let's keep it a thousand. Every woman that's chasing after that type of guy is not a hood woman. Let's not act like that's just the type. And I'm not even going to talk about the thug. I'm talking about her mentality. I'm talking to a woman chasing a thug niggle is not a wife.  I'm just talking about an image, not necessarily a thug because the thug, you got the thug and then you have the thug image. For example, 10 years ago, we could be honest, my fellas, you could relate to this. 10 years ago, 15, 20 years ago, if I had a rapper and I had a baseball player, I had a blue collar worker. I had an athlete. If I can have men from six different walks of life, they're all going to look different. If you look at an NBA player today, you look at an average college student today, you look at that average blue collar man today, you would not know who is who because the image of a thug has been superimposed on young men so much that they all try to fit that look to some degree. So don't mean they got to actually be the thug. They have been taught subconsciously that to carry that image is what's going to appeal to our women, because that's what they see in their whole life, women growing up where I'm from. Women love that image, whether they was from the inner city or not, they appeal to a certain image of a man. Can I have a question? Look at the image of men now, it's homosexual. That's cool, but this is where y'all lose me with that argument, because no one protects and coddles homosexual men more than black women in our community. So when y'all try to throw them under the bus as being gay, because you want to talk about when y'all got a gay best friend? I respect it when it's confusing to y'all, but this was confusing. No, I don't. You got to get your best friend? You got to talk about the gay guy. And whenever we're talking about the other... No, you're moving the goalposts. First, we're talking about image. We're not talking about... We want to talk about how black women and their relationship with black women, that's a whole another conversation. What I'm saying is the image. What you said was that women only want the thug or women want the six figures. What I'm saying is that there are three men on this panel right now that don't exhibit any of those bad boy looks like a thug image at all. Very articulate, very intelligent. And you guys have no problem getting women. Getting them is one thing. Get them to... But some men can't even get a woman. Some men can't even get a call back. Well, hold on, but let me... But why? But I think the point you're missing though, Courtney, is that this is the perfect... No, I don't have issues with women. What happens though, I have issues with women who have unrealistic expectations. I have issues with women who don't understand what real value is in a man. And so what Illa is saying is that, no, I'm good. I consider myself to be a really average guy. I've had women tell me that they can't deal with me because I don't make six figures.  Not one time did she ever judge me based on my character, based on any type of skill sets that make me masculine. She was judging me based off of what I can do for her, right? Not me being a man. And so this is the issue. This is where the dysfunction comes from. We, the men on the panel, we don't have issues getting women, but we have pursued women who have judged us not by the character of being masculine, but because we can't fulfill in their mind a particular lifestyle that they want. That is the issue. Or, or we don't behave as a man based on what they define a man. Correct.  And these are not just goofy women. These are women with careers. These are women that send these sororities. These are women who are. I mean, why you didn't like her post? Huh? I'm telling you. I'm telling you. No. Wait, wait, wait, one, one second, one second. I