Strength training fanatics. If you are not focusing at least some of the time on developing power, the ability to use your strength with speed, you are not getting the best results. In fact, you're also increasing your risk of injury. One more thing, when developing power, fatigue is the enemy. In order to train for power, you have to avoid fatigue, but everybody should include some of that training in their workouts. I don't like when you do fitness tips that make me feel guilty. Yeah. I know I'm serious. Of all the things that we talk about that I like... It's a blind spot here. It is. It's an area that I know that I have to continually revisit and which is so funny because it was such a big part of my training growing up and even into my early 20s. Like I always trained a bit like an athlete or did some explosive stuff like that and did multiple directional type of movements explosively and I always incorporated that. And then what you know when it was, was when I got on a kick of like bodybuilding and getting super strong. When that became so hyper focused, that kind of stuff went to the wayside and now I have to really be intentional about incorporating it in my training or else it just doesn't find its way in there. And I think a lot of that has to do with, again, not playing basketball anymore and really needing that skill at the same level as I needed it before, but that's not the answer is to throw it out completely and I know that that's a challenge for me. It's easy to overlook. I mean, it's one of those things that, especially for adults, like you get into all these responsibilities and work life and home life. And yeah, as kids, we could just go out and play. There's a lot more play which expresses a lot of these types of movements where you're moving quickly, you're stopping quickly, you're changing directions quickly.   If I move fast, can I stabilize that? Can I slow myself down appropriately so I don't injure myself? Well, you hit the nail on the head. You don't realize how much of the skill of power you've lost because everyday life doesn't require power unless you drop something or you gotta run real quick or you gotta grab your kid because they're running into the street and then you hurt yourself. It's a trip to how you subconsciously prune these things, not even realizing. For example, like I shared that story like years ago of when I jumped out of the truck and I felt like my knees were gonna explode. And that was like one of the first times that like that was like a big aha moment for me. But now over time, and I don't even think about anymore, something that for, I don't know, 26 years of my life would be the way I got out of the back of a truck. I never stepped out of the back of a truck.  Just that was natural because of that moment and because of how much it shocked me here. Now subconsciously, and I've caught myself, I was just climbing out of the back of my trailer today, I was like, I'm like stepping down. I'm like, oh my God, like I would not do, I wouldn't have done that just 10 years ago. Well, it is a skill and you'll lose it. Your body will get rid of that skill of strength with speed. So you can lift weights, you can be strong with your controlled movements and you'll be better off than if you had not done that. But if you don't do anything that exerts power or trains the skill of power, you'll lose it to such a degree that you'll go to jump off something that's not that high or like I said, twist real quick because you gotta grab your kid or something and injure yourself, hurt yourself as a result. Now from a physique development standpoint, being able to master the skill or just work on the skill of power, it recruits incredible amounts of muscle fibers. This is an incredible way to amplify your muscle building ability with your traditional strength training exercises and or strength power lifters, understand this by the way, the most successful power lifting clubs include a dynamic effort or whatever type day where they're moving a lightweight with speed. And what they found is this contributes greatly to their low level, low grinding, kind of low gear type strength. They incorporate this in their training. Now the problem I think is that people go, okay, well, how do I train for that? I don't know how to do a hang clean or a power clean or whatever. You can scale it back, you can regress power training like anything else. Like it could be as simple as jumping in place as high as you can, right? That can be one way of doing it where you're just trying to explode out of a squat or jumping or a elevated pushup where you push yourself up off a bench or where you use a band for a row and instead of pulling slow with control you pull a little bit more explosively. Like you can regress back and train this skill but the point that I also want to make with this is you don't train for power and look for a burn or look for a pump in the muscle. There is no fatigue involved with developing power. Developing power is learning how to explode. In other words, if you immediately respond. Right, so in other words, if you're doing a jump, you jump as hard as you can after you warm up and everything, right? You jump as high as you can and then you wait until you feel like you can exert max power again, however long that takes, and then you do again. When people do this at the gym, they do not train for power. They're just box jumping until they can't move anymore. In which case you're not developing power at all, you're just working on stamina. So we launched or launching, I should say, we're launching the MAPS performance advanced. When you were shooting that, Justin, what are some of your favorite movements that we've incorporated into that program that's unique to it? We haven't done a lot of sprinting. We haven't done a lot of drills. We haven't done a lot of, you know, maybe more athletic focused skill training because it requires a lot more attention. And so with this program, the cool part is like, so we've been able to develop with our first MAPS performance program, like what are the attributes of an athlete that they're seeking out? And so it was very much more strength focused, you know, building that sort of foundational basis. But then what's, if we take that sort of model and we have that foundation, like now, how do we like improve very specific skills that will translate really well to a lot of different sports? And so, you know, we tried to kind of look into what are some of those characteristics that are probably the most desired? And one of them speed, which we're kind of talking about here in the beginning, which is we haven't really focused on speed and be able to move quickly, but also how do we deliberately program that so you can maximize the effect of that? And we sort of flipped the model on its head a bit. So with this, it's like, you have your foundational workouts, but they're less frequent. And now our skills are very much more frequent. So it's the amount of frequency of being able to train those patterns so you get super effective with being explosive, being able to control your body under acceleration. So a lot of speed training is in there.  And he really highlights a lot of what you're talking about in terms of like eliminating fatigue within training. And he's great examples, Christian McCaffery with that and just how disciplined he is with his training. Every single rep he takes is very deliberate, very intentional. And then he stops before fatigue comes in and sort of convolutes that process with the body of learning how to move at that really explosive pace. You know what I want to add to this, by the way, is that if you want to feel really good in your body, then train this appropriately. Being strong feels good, being fit feels good. But if you want to take it to another level, having some speed, agility and power, you feel so able-bodied. Like you move- Super capable.  Like I could hop up on this thing, I could move in this direction, I could go take, run with my kids and I just, I feel capable in my body. It's liberating. It's the best feeling that I've ever had. When I trained more like an athlete back in my jiu-jitsu days, I remember feeling so secure in my body. Now I feel more like a big lumbering kind of whatever, but in those days I just felt good. You know, everything just feels really good because my body can move slow and fast. It can be stable and agile. And this is a skill, if you don't train this, if your strength training is just traditional strength training all the time and you don't include any phases of this kind of training, little by little, this skill will, you'll lose this skill to the point of where your body will maintain the absolute bare minimum that you require. So you'll literally not be able to run or take off like when you need to run or jump off a curb and not feel like you might twist or ankle type of deal. Like that'll happen and I've experienced that. So were the, would you say then like the outdoor field training footwork speed drills were your favorite or like the landmine stuff? Landmine, so landmine university and they've taken a lot of concepts from David Wack in terms of coiling. I was following them for a while. I remember somebody kind of tipped me off on what they were doing and I just thought it was brilliant because there's certain things with like power cleans that like I love power cleans and I like to be able to focus on that for like triple extension and for a lot of like explosive controlled power output for an exercise, but there is a bit of a learning curve to that. There's a bit of a risk to that with the barbells and landmine training allows you to sort of place I guess trying to the fulcrum of it. So in terms of like allowing less impact on the joints by kind of extending that lever out away and so you're kind of, instead of like vertical gravitational forces we're kind of allowing that to move out a bit and take some of the risk out a little bit. Takes a lot of the risk out. Well the skill of learning a landmine. You also can do like to your David Wack point which I love a lot of his work with that is the coiling. Like you can do more coiling type of movements and exercises with the landmine that you wouldn't do traditionally with like a barbell. Yeah and so what we try to do is highlight that in general and this is another skill you're trying to develop with rotation to be able to coil and to be able to tense up and to kind of create torque before movement so you're more explosive. So I mean this is why we talked earlier about like Tiger Woods and like why he's so dominant with like his swing and how he can do it on his knees and even like out drive people just because he's figured that out. Like that's a skill. That's a definitive skill an athlete could benefit from to be able to really explosively recruit and apply more power output with every movement. So we did that in even with like some of the priming movements have matched with those specific skills that we're trying to focus on. But yeah so it's really unique. Let's put it that way. A lot of really unique concepts in this program that we're able to kind of peer and zoom in a bit more that will apply directly towards a sport that also like your everyday average person like you're just not considering these things because again you're just getting up out of your car you're going to work you're kind of doing your thing. This really exposes a lot of other potential. It's so better sweet for me when we do programs like this or we even talk about this stuff because I didn't have any of this knowledge as a kid training at all. I wish I- Same. Like I made it through sports with the tiny, tiny fraction of information and knowledge around training and diet which is like was pretty much none and was okay. You know I wasn't a great athlete but I was okay. But I was also the athlete that man because I didn't have a lot of natural gifts I worked hard and if I had the resources or the tools or the knowledge that we have now when it comes to training like an athlete I gotta really wish what I would what I might have been able to have done you know as a young athlete who would put the work in.  Well especially when we talked about this the other day on the podcast about you know when you're at the like high school level which is as far as I made it right I was just playing in high school. The, it's one thing to be a great shooter in basketball or to have great handles with that but your athletic abilities trumps that at that level. At that level if you are just that much faster that much more explosive you can accelerate decelerate, jump higher than all of your peers. Even if you're not the greatest shooter the greatest ball handler you're like the best player on the team because of that and I wish I had those tools to have been able to apply that because I think my work ethic would have allowed me to surpass a lot of people because I was definitely not better than the people that had those natural gifts already and I was just relying a little bit on my hard work and effort to try and keep up and I didn't have this like science-based approach of training to get me better. I gotta wish I had that. I wish I knew this as an early trainer I didn't know any of this even as an early trainer. I knew strength training, correctional exercise no real understanding. Functional training to me back then was balancing on things like that. No matter what workout exercise we're doing if you're balancing one leg and yeah it's functional. I had no idea until the later half of my career and when I started applying it to myself so I wanted to learn through that and then I saw the value with using this with clients and I would scale things down and apply a little bit. Like I remember with my elderly clients having them just practice just jumping in place without even a full squat and then them seeing the carry over to the other lifts the other workouts and then their just overall function. I mean you can scale it way back it could be as simple as like throwing a light medicine ball even would help develop the power. But a lot of people don't realize what it does to the body and how it develops it. I remember when I did hand clean there was a stint I did hand cleans for a while and my goal I remember my goal was I wanted to get up to two and I remember what as something with a hand clean and the idea was to get me better at throws for Judo and Jiu Jitsu. And then I remember developing like bigger traps. I didn't expect that. I didn't expect to get well also development for it. I think a lot of people don't consider fast twitch contraction in general and like that's like a whole sort of ocean of potential on its own of just moving quickly stimulates the muscle in a completely different way.  They both have a lot of horsepower. Okay, they look very different. Like a tractor's slow. I think I pull a lot of weight but a drag car, I mean that thing takes off and it's explosive, it's scary, right? That's a skill that you have to train or you will lose. And if you lose enough of it it will compromise your ability to be strong, to develop muscle, to be fit. It'll compromise all that stuff. So you could literally be a fit muscular older person who has trouble with doing a jumping jack because it feels jarring on the body because you don't have that skill. I do think though it's important to note that the, and to Justin said this, right? About the original mass performance was about laying that foundation of strength. Like that does come first, right? Of course. Like speed and power is like the greatest. You have to have strength. Is the greatest expression of strength. And so I think the mistake that a lot of like newbies or general pop people make is wanting to be, look like, you know, said athlete. And so therefore they train, you know all these athletic, you know movements and they don't have a solid foundation first. And so it's important that you lay that foundation first before you try and get the greatest expression of it. Of all of the workout modalities that exist of all of the ways of working out and they're all bastardized in popular media. Like most workout plans, programs and mainstream media from a trainer perspective, from a coach perspective people that understand workouts, they suck, okay? But nothing has been more bastardized than power training. Nothing. If you look at mainstream workouts, do you know where you see people attempt power training in cardio, class, workout, get lean, targeting women type classes?  But it's so bastardized that it's literally a, they can do whatever they want. It doesn't even matter the exercise, all about sweating and getting tired.  That's there's nobody does power training properly unless you're looking at a coach training an athlete and they know what they're doing. So this has yet to even go mainstream, but when it does, it's going to be amazing. Then you're going to really see people really take things to another level.  And so it doesn't make any sense to me to keep training it to when you're under fatigue you lose a lot of control. And so yes, there's time to stress of these movements under fatigue. Obviously that's under competition, but if you, I'm just under the camp now even more so that training that without fatigue, it leads to such a better result for an athlete. I know that this is part of your bone you have to pick with CrossFit and UFC MMA type of training because there's a lot of young athletes that have now adopted that way of training for football and sports in general. And it's like, it's such a terrible way. And they may not think it's terrible because they get stamina from it and they build a little bit of strength. And so they're better off, have done that than nothing at all. But it's like, man, there is such a better approach.  But it works. I got the nail on the wall. It's like, you have no idea. There's a way better way to do this. I know. And it's really not, it's not mainstream. It's not like taught barely in any other coaching. Like I just haven't seen any other schools really. That was why like Brian Kool I thought it was, I was like, wow, finally somebody that's voicing this and is applying it and has been doing this since day one. It was mind blowing to me cause that's kind of how I always saw it. Today's giveaway is maps anabolic. Here's how you can enter to win. Leave a comment below this video in the first 24 hours that we drop it, subscribe to this channel and turn on notifications. If you win, we'll let you know in the comment section. Also three days left for the brand new maps program launch. Maps performance advanced. This is a hardcore, athletically minded workout program for strength, power and speed. Also there's special segments in there for grapplers. You do jiu-jitsu or wrestling. There's segments in there for athletes with lots of, who require lots of rotational power, maybe baseball players, of course, or speed and power segments in there. You'll love this program. There's three days left for it and it's on sale and you get free stuff thrown in. Here's what you get. If you go to mapsp2.com, use the code PALaunch. That'll give you $80 off and you're gonna get for free grip, strength, reference guide and eat for performance thrown in there for free. All right, back to the show. Speaking of like the progression of all this, so I've been, I'm putting a, personally, a focus, a specific focus on starting to develop some agility, but I have to focus on lateral stability and strength first because I lack that big time because I love deadlifting, love squatting, love those basic movements. So I'm like, I've identified this like my lateral stability isn't great. So I've had to regress, regress, regress. So you catch me at the gym right now doing the adductor, the abductor. That's, that's, I literally am on the abductor machine. Big girl, bad girls? And yeah, and I'm in there and it's like as regressed as it can get because I need to build a little bit of strength. And then next I'm gonna start doing stuff on the field but I'm, you know, on the inner field of the gym, not outside field, don't get carried away. But I'm at the gym working out and the gym that I go to over here, UFC Fit, I get recognized at least two or three times when I'm in there. So this is also an ego check. So I'm like, I put my headphones on. Do you even think that? And I'm like, I'm doing the machine, you know? Do you even think that's an appropriate regression for that? Like I don't even know if I would even start to that. I mean, I also do two blocks, I also do, but because it's so easy and I can work on end range of motion, which is a challenge for me. So for me, what ends up happening is when I come out I all of a sudden lack strength. So the machine is so controlled and this is just, I'm only going to do this for a couple of weeks just kind of get that contraction out there to connect. I found I can connect to it a little bit better and then I'm going to move on to some other stuff. But, you know, I just feel like that's the most worthless machine in the gym. It's like, I just think that even for functional purposes, I feel like I would do something with your body. That's not in a machine too. Especially when- Yeah, weird real quick. Huh? You got nervous.  He mentioned he was doing like lateral sled drag and things like that. I mean, I would definitely have a movement aspect to it, laterally. Especially if the desired outcome was a- There's a lack of strength. Athletic pursuit. No, it's literally, I got to connect to this for a second, get a little bit of a pump. This is super controlled, super like I can just do this to try and feel what I'm trying to feel and then apply it. I'm so going to send the video guys there to catch video. Oh yeah. Never let you live like that. That's how it starts. I need a whole stack. A whole stack, bro. I don't even, at least I'm going to do the stack. Oh, you know? Yeah. No, but I'm like, I'm looking around like, please don't let anybody recognize you. Just don't make eye contact, that's the rule. I hope somebody captures that. Oh, it's embarrassing.  And this one is just, it's becoming so obvious and so true now. It's got to be at least, probably early days, nine years ago, eight years ago, where we talked about the health and longevity benefits of creatine. And back then, we actually got mocked. I remember people talking about, oh, it's a bodybuilder supplement. Yeah. What are you talking about? It just builds muscle or whatever. I tell you what, dude, the wellness space, the neural health space, the longevity space, creatine is becoming the hot supplement. All of a sudden. What are you talking about? Yeah, dude. And we were saying that a long time ago. Do you remember? We actually, it was the, it was the original studio. Yep. When we actually got samples of just pure monohydrate in a brown bag. Remember, that was going to be what we were going to do. We were going to do. Oh, that was the inspiration.  Nothing special about it. And just branded. And we actually got samples and we're looking at. Forgot about that. Uh-huh. That was, I didn't have a chance at a supplement. I mean, still to this day, it's probably the only one you can convince me to want to mess with because of the simplicity of it, how easy it would be to source, to do all those things. The downfall of it for our business is that it's just the margins are, it's so terrible. Terrible, yeah. We are, we're probably a few years away, I'd say five at the most, away from creatine becoming ultra mainstream. Everybody's got to take it. Yeah. It's good for longevity, good for your brain, good for your organs. I feel like it's getting like multivitamin status. I'm telling you it is, people are tagging me all the time now because we've been, I've been preaching this forever and they're, they're tagging me going, oh, this person said that. This, and they're not even, they're just a neuroscientist. Oh, and this person said it. They're a cardiologist and this person said it, they're, it's blown up. What's that, what's that? This is a chart that shows the Google trends of how often creatine has been searched in the last 10 years. So where's that spike right there? The spike is in 2022. Yeah, look at that. 2021, basically after 2020. Yeah. Interesting, that massive spike right there. That's because that's when the, that's when the longevity people were started talking about it. Like literally you can pinpoint that date that that's like, I don't know about that date, but I know that it's relatively recent. That's a massive spike. Look at, look at the line, like relatively. Yeah, stable. Yeah. And then all of a sudden it has the, one of the greatest spikes in its history. And it's staying up there kind of. Yeah. Interesting. What's that exact date there, that big spike? 1122. It's in January. Oh, January. January of what? 2022. Interesting. Remember on that episode I said that. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Isn't that interesting? I find that really, I find that super interesting. I mean, you're talking about almost, it's more than double, right? Yeah. Wow. That's cool you can look that up. And it's keeping more than double. So many cool things on the internet.  I think it already is. I think some people are. Oh, it'll be in all multivitamins. It's going to be in. Being in cereals, you think? In care homes. You're going to see like care homes, especially the elderly. You're going to see doctors recommending it for surgery recovery to help the body heal. It's going to be skincare. You can see people using it in skincare because Creighton produces ATP which is in every cell. Every cell needs that energy. I wonder what percentage of the population after all is said and done, maybe it's like a year or two after the pandemic like literally started to start doing their own research because they're so frustrated. That's probably. Medical advice. Like this is not working. This dietary guidelines not working. You know, all these medications not working. You know, what else is there? And then, you know, hopefully they found some information out there that was a little better. Yeah, dude, speaking of the pandemic and stuff, I just read an article. Three out of every thousand people with COVID will have COVID for a month or longer. And so, and then, and I'm reading the comments and I'm just, there's a split between people who are like making fun of the vaccination of the people like, do I need to get a booster? Type of deal. But what these people don't realize is that's, it's almost certainly connected to low vitamin D levels.  Which, I mean, what's already the percentage of that? I know magnesium's like 65% plus the population are deficient. Well, optimal vitamin D is a lot, but low is, I don't know, at least acceptable, yeah. I don't know. But if you're low, you're, they don't want to get any viral infection, especially a respiratory one. It's gonna be, you're gonna be in for a long haul. It's not gonna be, yeah. By the way, low vitamin D, you know, just because you're out in the sun a lot, I'll give it, I'll use my dad as an example. I talked about this already. My dad's always outside. He hates being indoors. He's always outside. But because we have dark skin, I don't, we don't convert as much of the sunlight to vitamin D. Well, I also have a theory about that too. It's what I've said about me. It's like, if you were somebody who was out in the sunlight a lot so much, your body is adapted to that. Maybe changed to how. And so just to, just to you being not as much, is a, what is it? Wow, that didn't even realize that bad. I knew it was high. Yeah, 42% of adults are deficient. Yeah. I exaggerated and said, Doug, do me a favor. Which I don't know what guidelines are using for vitamin D because like RDA is low. It's not good. Yeah. Doug, look up vitamin D deficiency symptoms. Trip off this. Cause I want to take everything. Well, no, I want people to hear this because energy, skin, recovery, like. Well, no, there's some up there that people might not realize. I've had clients like this where they were on, I mean medications, muscle pain, bone pain, increased sensitivity to pain, tingly, pins and needles, cessations, hands and feet, muscle weakness. Interesting. I didn't know about the tingly. Waddling? Yeah. And then what it doesn't say in that one is also depression and anxiety. Depression and anxiety. So is the ultimate extreme, what's rickets the deficiency of? That's, that is vitamin D. That is vitamin D, right? Yeah. Yeah, okay. If I'm not mistaken. That's like an old disease. Doug, what's rickets? Is that the like shake, like they shake? No, I think it's bone, weak bones. Like bowed legs, I believe. That's rickets. Yeah, look it up because I think it's. I thought it was like you, when you have like kind of the, like when you like. It's Northern European. No, it's when your bones are malformed, I think from lack of vitamin D. Oh, wow. The softening and weakening of bones in children. I did not know that. Bro, there's some old diseases out there that people don't get anymore, like the mumps. Oh yeah, mumps. So people don't get, there's nobody you know that gets rickets anymore. That's pretty rare. That's scurvy, you know, the old pirate one. Yeah, it's pretty rare for somebody to get rickets. I had imagined that we probably because we would see the signs early on now and then be able to supplement way early before. Yeah, and they put it in formula. They, if you breastfeed, they tell you to supplement to give it to your kids. Like we were told by a general doctor to give our kids vitamin D to supplement, but it's in formula and in milk, specifically for this reason. Yeah, so these are the you know, the deformities, thickening of ankles, wrists, knees, bowed legs, soft skull bones, rarely bending of the spine, dental problems, things like that. All right, yeah. Not good. No, no, you definitely don't want the rickets.  Because no way in hell, Adam put this there. What is Shaila Bof in cannibalism?  Dude, Shaila Bof, right? Shia, Shia, Shia, Shia. You guys know he is. Yeah, yeah, actor. So there was this choir that did a video that they made this whole song about, it's the actual cannibal Shia LaBeouf. And it was this, the most bizarre video I've ever seen. I just was trying to bring it up and I didn't know where to throw in conversation, obviously. So he wasn't a cannibal. He didn't actually eat something. No, it was like they made it, and it's this performance and it's just one of those like you're kind of showing your friends like weird videos and like this made no sense. But it also was like, it was like a good song, but it was like a very random, I don't know. Like I just thought it was weird. Oh no, I wanna watch this. And crazy. Doug's pulling it up right now. And Shia LaBeouf actually shows up at the end of it too, which was like, it felt like they're like making fun of him in this whole like music ensemble. So he was a part of it. He was a part of it. He was in on the GOOF. So I'm old? Oh yeah, 2014. I'm not sure if this, oh yeah. This is it, huh? 2014, this is the video here. I wanted to expose you guys to it, I guess, in the audience. Like this exists for a second.  Yeah, hold on, now I know why Justin was watching. Justin GOOF. Justin GOOF. My friends showed me this. I blame him. I bet he did. Videos of gay men. This is what I got. Justin, my friend. Yeah, my friend, y'all are both. I can't hear it. Want to play it? Here it goes. Yeah. He's gaming on me.   Running by your life from side of above. Running by your life from side of above. Running by your life from side of above. This is such like a stoner video. Like how do you get, how do you get all these people together to make something so ridiculous? Can I just say something? That's what I, like my mind was just running and running and running, trying to figure it out. Like the amount of people paid to go and do this, 84 million views. Do you realize how close Justin was being to a theater? Yeah, 100%. Like, he decided football. Yeah, I just barely made it out alive. I believe when him and his buddies get together and they do these things, this is the type of stuff they reenact.  Like, 100%. I mean, if it's funny, yeah, I'm like, I'm in. I just, it's crazy. Like, how does something like that even get created? Like, you're not gonna spin it off into some sort of business, right, like 84 million views. I mean, that happened, right? But do you really go in it going like, hey, we're gonna do this and it's gonna get 84 million views? And that's gonna pay for all these people? So random. It's so obscure. I think it's just so compelling that way, you know? By the way, Shayla both. So I've been interested in him recently because you guys know his story. Yeah, about Catholicism and stuff like that. He was, we might have talked about this, but he was gonna play Padre Pio, went and lived with the monks and he's like hardcore. Now hardcore Catholicism. He's like the old school stuff, whatever it's called. He watches the Latin, he was a Latin mass and he's like super converted. Pretty wild story. But anyway. That's trippy. So he went from here. You're welcome. Yeah, that's a random video for you guys. Thank you so much, Jeff. See, when I see that, that's, so what gets my wheels turning is like, I wanna know the history of that. Like I wanna know like how that came to be and whose idea was it and why did they do it? What was the desired outcome of it? Like I just, I can't watch something like that, just be entertaining and laugh about it.  Like what is, what are you thinking when you do that? Like you just, I'm not into weird content. Or is it just like you got that kind of money where you just like, hey, let's just spend $10,000 on people. I wanna do that. I wanna be with you guys one day. We're all just hanging around and we're like, let's just make it really scary. So Robin Big is one of my all-time favorite shows because of that. Like I used to always say like, oh man, if I'm ever that rich, that's how I'm gonna like blow my money. He's like just doing. Cool shit, weird stuff.  What would you do? What would be one of the first things you did? It, well. You guys, let's say you get so much money around it doesn't matter. And you have to come up with some random idea. I feel like you're gonna learn how to race some kind of crazy car. Yeah, I would do stuff like that for sure. I want to see you on the pro go-cart racing circuit. I mean, that's how they all start, right? You start off in the go-carts and then a lot of them do those like mini trucks. Those go-carts are fast by the way though. High level ones? Oh yeah, and you're so close to ground. That's terrifying. It feels faster, yeah. I mean, my uncle had one when I was little and so I did drive. Yeah, I would do so. You're talking about when I was in my 20s, I thought that way.  So I'm not, I think that's when you're that age, I'm into that stuff. Is there a skill you'd wanna learn?  Jiu-Jitsu. Okay. Yeah, I would do it, but I would do it quietly because I feel like everybody does it and I don't like, I hate that. Part of why I don't do it right now is because everybody does it. But yeah, I really wanna do it, so I'm torn. You should go do another grappling art that's not like a little more obscure, like Russian style. So I would, or boxing, I would love to box. I would love to, I would love to, and not, I don't even have to get in the ring and do rounds and stuff like that as much as the skill of it. The skill of being able to throw a punch really efficiently is such a valuable skill. Oh yeah, I do. Yeah, so I think that between, between that and Jiu-Jitsu, I think would be one of the coolest things. Obviously, I think Jiu-Jitsu is one of the best because every fight I've ever been in in my life always ends up on the ground. And so having the skill to be able to defend yourself or put somebody in a choke or a hold, it's much bigger than you, I think Jiu-Jitsu would be better. But boxing too, though, like it may not even end up on the ground if I got really good hands. You know, am I length? Like, so if I got that kind of skill, even if you were great at Jiu-Jitsu, it might be able to put you down before you even get me to the ground. So I think those two would be cool. I'd like to learn scuba diving. Liar, I brought that up. Because I'm terrified of it.  I wanted to do that. No, no, no. When I lived out Monterey, there was a- I would like to like to. You know what I'm saying? Like, like- We're talking. Do we have to just throw you in? So these are things we actually would never do, but we wouldn't want to. Well, no, I mean, if I had all the time and energy, then I would because I could constantly, you know what I mean? Because it'd be too exhausting for me now. It would take too much time and it terrifies me. But if I had nothing else to do, I could dedicate like, okay, this is like, this is a personal bro thing. I gotta get in the open ocean. I don't know if I believe this. I'm telling you- I brought this up like, it was a few years ago. I wanted us to do that. I don't remember what it was. I think it for- Throw you in a shark cage? No. God, the one step at a time, bro. In a pool. Right. You're starting to pool. But I want to overcome that fear. You know what I mean? I feel like that's so scary. Like you're in the ocean. You look around. So it's more like that for you. It's not so much that you like- It would feel so empowering that I did that. To overcome that. Yeah, dude. Okay. Well, that's a different ask, I think. I think asking me like, what's something that I fear I don't like doing that I'd try and would love to challenge myself to overcome it would be a different thought process. Saying what would I want to train or skill at? Do you have a different answer then? Well, I'd have to think about it because I don't, there's not a lot of things. You're not scared of anything? Yeah, I'm not really scared of a lot of things, actually. I'm not sure I can say it. Except movies. Well, hey, no, I mean, I'm sure there is something, right? But I mean, I try and operate from a place of running towards fear, right? Just on the other side of that resides success. And so I'm a big believer of- All right, Jim, quick. If I- I didn't Jim, quick that.  That's the actual quote. That's the actual direction of the quote. Well, you know what's on the other side of success? Not overcoming the fear, it's fearing the overcoming it right there. I said the quote the way it was. No, yeah, so I mean, I think that's a big part of life is finding those things and finding purpose in life is to find those things that we're most afraid of, we're most challenged in running. I feel like it would be so much of a better person if I got over that fear. What about you, Justin? Well, too, I mean, it's like, this is more on the artistic side. So I'm not like, you know, physically, yes, I have similar kind of stuff. Like I'd love to learn, you know, more combat kind of focused skills, but for me, I want to learn how to like produce music and like get more in like the backend recording side of it and learn how to like. So what does a music producer do? So are they're the ones that they take all the different artists and then they take the tracks and they make it. Yeah, they blend it all together. They add sounds. That's the dude in the other room with the buttons. Yeah. That you see on TV, okay. I mean, yeah, I just thought that would be really interesting because I'm not like the best musician but I definitely have an ear for things. And so if I hear something, I'm like, ooh, something would go well with this. And like, I want to, I was like sort of meddling with my son's DJ table and two, because I got that for him. And really it was like, because I kind of wanted to play with it. I love that.  I want to kind of learn drums. Like, I don't want to get like super good at like one specific instrument. I just know that's, I don't know. That would be cool. I would just like to kind of blend it all together and then pull people in. I would do that. That are really good. We could do Mind Pump Music Productions, a supplement company for me. And then you want to open an ice cream shop. That's what you said that one time. Oh, that's right. That's true, by the way. I'm not making this up. Adam, literally, I'm always like, I want to do supplements. The yogurt shop. I want to do supplements, right? And snow cones. And he's like, I want to do a frozen yogurt. Frozen yogurt and snow cones. Snow cones from Hawaii. It's so weird. You've ever had shaved ice in Hawaii? It's like nowhere else in the world. So it's shaved ice with slash yogurt shop. Crushes. Someone will do that. Someone will steal my idea. What do you guys? I think they exist. Somebody's done it. Someone's done it. I haven't seen one not with that kind of shaved ice and not like good things. Why is it that we can't find Hawaiian shaved ice around here? What do they got? Like what are they using? It's just not as good. It's a special machine. Yeah, it's a special machine. Yeah, it's a special machine. I'm sure there is some. I'm not, we're not all probably big snow cone guys going around looking for the best snow cone shop. I would get it, dude. When I'm in Hawaii. I think that placed it down on Lincoln in Willow Glen. I think they do. I've never actually had it, but that's the one that has lines out the door for it.  With like, like, like, Trichy was terrible. Yeah. So what, okay, what, what do you, what do you guys want to be remembered for? Mm-hmm. What do you mean? Like, what do you remember? Like, what do you remember for? Yeah, yeah. Like when people talk, well you're long, you've been long dead, or you don't have to be long dead. You've been gone for a while or something like that. And people remember, talk about you, like what do you want to be, what do you want to be remembered for? You ever think about that? Yeah, I do. Obviously, I think about that with my son, and so that stuff. I don't think about, I've never thought about those types of things before until him and then that stuff pops in my head right now, and then I think about that. So have you ever thought about, like, Well, what is yours? Why don't you start? So you think about that. Two things come to mind for me. One, for sure, being a great father. Like, of all the things that would be, Good job. The number one. Yeah, but really though, like, I appreciate that you feel that way because you know me and you would say that. But I want to be like no known for that. Like, oh my God. Like you're famous for it? Yeah, like that's almost like that. Almost like, yeah, like that's, I mean, look, we all have a platform where millions of people know who we are. What I want them to know about me, number one, is that I'm a great father. That would be the same. And then probably my second one is my business acumen because that's something that, I care more about that than being a good trainer.  I don't even care, you know what I'm saying? It's like, cool, you think you're smarter or better than me. That's not a thing I really care about. Like I happen to have file on end of that profession. I love it, but I take more pride on the business acumen side. And so father one and then business acumen would probably be probably a close second. Yeah, I don't know. I have kind of a funny one because it's literally the last award you want to get when you're like done with your team. At the end of the year, MVP or you get like defensive player of the year. What do you want to best that for? Most improved. Oh, yeah. That's cool. Yeah, and mainly because in terms of like seeing growth. So when you dive in for directions, you want people to be like, he sucked. But man, he sucked. He got way better. Look what happened.  It's Dave, Justin, Andrews got better. He's dead. I'm getting better. He's dead. You know, like that's what I want. I'm just somehow. This guy's so most improved. He's probably getting better right now. So most improved. Yeah, you guys are still talking about me as I'm dead. That's awesome. I like that one. What about you, Doug? You think about that? I mean, you're closer to that. So you got to think about it. Are you sure? No, I'm not. I'm not. I'm not sure. That's actually what you take. I'm not the one drinking all the selsies. He's gonna hit the whole company, bro. I'm some boy.  But, you know, in life, I concern myself more with what I'm doing right now.  Kind of an obscure thing though, outside of that is I've taken up calligraphy, Japanese calligraphy a while back and I'm very serious about it. I've been taking classes. I've been practicing. I've seen it. I've seen some of your stuff. I keep getting better. And I do think I have some innate abilities with it because I got a lot of comments from actual older Japanese people in these classes and they're saying, how long you've been doing this? And so, yeah. Oh, great. I follow some Japanese and Chinese calligraphers on Instagram and I really admire some of their work. And I would like to be known for that. Is somebody like this white guy who shouldn't be doing that? Yeah. But it's doing it. I'm Eminem of calligraphy. Yeah. Yeah, I'm Eminem of calligraphy. We put that in your bio on Instagram. I like it. I like it. I'm Eminem of calligraphy. Probably the best title I've heard. I didn't even, you know what? That is, it's actually really interesting to me that there is such an art to that. Oh bro, you have no idea. I went over his house and he was showing me.  Bro, you gotta see the, he was showing me all this.  Like it's a 100% art. Yeah, that's really interesting. That's kind of cool. It's a little embarrassing actually for me to talk about. Why? Because it's kind of nerdy. But I guess we're all kind of nerdy. You've already been passionate in my life. My wife has already labeled all of us as that art. And by the way, I'm at an age now where nerdiness doesn't really matter. No, now you're just cool. It's hot now. Was it cool when you're 17? I don't know about that. I've come out about my Dungeons and Dragons. That will never be hot. You still play that? No, I don't. I would. I like that, Doug. That's super original. That's going to be tough for Sal. They'd come with something better than that. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I'm not nerdy. Is your wife saying I'm nerdy too? Yes. For me? Yeah, you. I'm just kidding. I'm just kidding. I think, of course, being a great father would be a great one. But I would like to be known for being generous and for communicating the truth when the truth is not popular. That's what I would like to be known. Hell, lame. None of us are having to do the fitness, but that's what we do for a living. Well, yeah. Well, no, you don't want to be known as like the philosopher or fitness or like one of the most well-known fitness minds. Warrior pose. You don't care about that? No, warrior pose. Please don't say that, dude. I like that title. No, dude. That's for you. That's my bizarro version. You say you don't have something like that related to that? No, I mean no. I think communicating things that are right but not popular could fall in that category, too. But I value that. I value that anyway. I always find people that... I've always been this way. I've always seen people who were persecuted for speaking out and being the truth. And I've always felt a strong pull towards them and respect. And I'll give you an example. I remember learning about Muhammad Ali as a kid. There was a stint there where I was into like classic boxing. And I remember learning that Muhammad Ali, he opposed the Vietnam War, refused to go. So whatever you feel about that, he gave up his prime best years of boxing because of it. They didn't allow him to box. And he almost got thrown into jail because he believed in something so much that he said, no, I'm gonna take a stand. That's always pulled to me. I guess there's some of that in what we do for sure, right? Obviously we're standing up against a lot of people, a lot of the norms in the space. Yeah. We're not gonna be persecuted. Well, we're not gonna be persecuted. We're not, yeah. Yeah, but you know what though? I mean, I brought this up yesterday when we were talking to Jason Khalifa. I mean, obviously we're not being persecuted for it. So it's okay, but we do pass on a lot of money to do things with integrity opposed to just chasing.  I mean, that is, you're winning the game. That's really what it is, the end of the day. I mean, that's what it is. And so we sacrifice that a lot for things that we are pursuing things that we care about or we believe is right. And we don't do things that we know.   But I mean, I think we operate from a place like that.  Nobody would say whatever. And I'd be the one sitting there quietly and then it would just eat at me. So I'd have to say something. And then I'd get in a scuffle or I'd get jumped. Well, that's a cool thing to be known for. It's like the defender of the week or defender of the- It just doesn't sit.  It just ate at me all the time. And so, yeah, I used to get in trouble a lot for stuff like that.  That was my nickname, big mouth. You just reminded me of something. So, yeah, my son is getting at this really cool. We're now at this point where we can like, I can just keep asking questions and challenging and he'll just talk, talk, talk, talk. Oh, it's so fun. And so yesterday we're in the bath and we're talking and I'm talking to him about all the kids at his school and who he likes and who he plays with. And it got around to like the kid that's like, that's mean or the bully about that. And I said, is any kids that are mean or not nice with that? And he goes, he goes, he thinks he goes buster.  And he goes, Are you changing the name for the podcasters? This is real name. I think it was real name. I think it was buster. Buster. That's a dead, you know. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Who should name their kid buster? Oops, yeah.  I don't care. You don't say like, be better parents. The best part of this, the best part about this was that already the training and it was, I haven't even said it that much. I've said it to you guys, but I have said it to him before and Katrina and I have kind of lightly talked about it before that I've told her, I'm going to teach him this way. And he says it. I don't even say anything to him. He goes, he goes, yeah, his, his mommy and daddy don't love him very much. I went, oh my God. Oh. Yes, that's exactly how I want my son to interpret kids that are, that are shits that are bullies, that are bad people. That would be a bad home life.  And so you just have to understand that inside. He's hurting. You know, it's sad, it's true though. What you're saying is true. Well, no, that's why I'm, that's why I want to teach him that it is the truth. And it also will, I think in, when those situations, obviously this was like a very light situation. And I think he was, I mean, the kid, he told me the kid, you know, takes the toys and says it's mine, right? So it's not like a serious bully yet. But at one point he's going to have to deal with that.  I think he'll handle the situation the better he understands it. When I was a young kid and you had a bully, I never was thinking that many layers. You didn't think empathy at all.  So he turned more into I needed to fight, defend myself or run and hide. It was more, that was your choices. Versus having a better understanding of this kid. And so maybe he breaks through and helps that kid or maybe he knows how to avoid those situations or at least doesn't internalize them himself because. That's the big one. Right. And that's really what I want to come with that. But you just reminded me of that because that just happened last night. That's so cute. He was so cute when he came in with him yesterday when he came in. Yeah, yeah, yeah. He was walking in and it was sprinkling. Daddy, the rain's messing up my beautiful hair. No, he didn't. No, he didn't. He said my beautiful hair. I said, bro, your hair's not even done. I was like, you didn't even put gel on it, did you? Beautiful hair. Does he put gel on his hair? Yeah, we put, yeah, he does it. We do. Does he like for you to do that?  Bro, my son, Aurelius does not, we cannot, to wash his hair is a battle. He doesn't like water on his head at all. Well, Max still doesn't like going underwater, but over time, we've gotten better about that, but he doesn't like being underwater. That's an area that I'm gonna be challenged with, right? So this year, hopefully we get to swim lessons.  Because I had, it was getting in. He was doing it. Yeah, and then we did, we haven't. And boy, do I see a difference. No, we laid on thick now. So when he lets me wash his hair, because you have to, right?  I love your hair. I'm like, everybody say something, we're gonna get this truth. Dude, it was so nice when I had to say in their haircuts, you know, like now like Ethan is completely like. He's doing the bullet rail. Oh, I saw it. Katrina said something about that.  Pick and choose your battles. Yeah, you realize. Who cares. He's gonna express himself.  Like, do you wanna look like that, like that depiction? That's the style for the kids. Yeah, but that's the thing. It's popular. It's like his friends. And so I have to like kind of step back and be like, okay, but this is a different culture. Like they have their own little culture. I think if every dad can control their kids' hair, their son's hair, 99% of us would shave it. That's what I think. We'll just keep it real short and tight. I love that. I would love to buzz cut. That's what I had that. Buzz cut my kids' hair super short on the top. I think it looks nice and faded and tight and sharp and it looks handsome. I was so excited for it. That's because we're living by kids. Yeah, totally. I was so excited. I'm probably not like a lot of dads, maybe more like the moms in the situation. Like I was so excited to get his first haircut, to put his first outfit together. Like I like that stuff. I care more about the Katrina. Like I'm particular.  Oh yeah. Really? Oh yeah, yeah. I love that part. You didn't have dolls when you were a kid, huh? I mean, I don't know. I mean, serious? Why not? That doesn't mean anything, you know? No, no, no, no. I was into that stuff, so. So just say dressing him, like dressing himself? Yeah, yeah, yeah.  Sometimes he'll match me. Yeah, sometimes if I, I don't go out of the way to really try and do that, but sometimes that happens where I'm like put together. Bro, that's so cute. I had no idea. Yeah, I love to put together his outfits. So I mean, if he comes here and I didn't get him ready in the morning, then it was his mom and him. I'm the worst with that, dude. But I totally- I grab whatever, whatever.  Yeah, yeah, yeah. So she does. She's good about like, if she brings him around that she knows that. You know what I like? So now my youngest, my little 15 month old, her hair starting to grow. It's going slowly, it's starting to grow. She's got these little curls in the back, which is- Oh, cute. Oh, we are like, oh gosh, she can have curly hair. I always wanted a curly hair little girl. But anyway, her hair is just long enough now where Jessica put two little tiny sprouts of pigtails. The little pigtails. Oh yeah, I did just take the pictures. That's the cute little fountains coming out. Oh, that's the cutest thing ever. Hey, I want to say something. Shilajit back in stock with Organifi. That, that blew out. Finally. Blew out. Not for long.  People absolutely love it. Absolutely love it. So people will comment on it, say I feel amazing. I definitely notice a difference, whatever, and then they like the taste. It's, that's gotta be right now one of their biggest blockbuster products. That is funny. And for people who don't know what this is, just do this, Google Shilajit with, so it's a J, Shilajit. You better spell that. Studies, so it's S-H-A-L-I. S-H-A-S-H-I. No, sorry, S-H-I-L-A-J-I-T. Studies, look that up. There are a ton of actual studies on Shilajit and how it affects the hormones, muscle growth, mood, like crazy. I think it's a combination of that, that it feels good with the fact that it's in a gummy form. That tastes good. Of course. The delivery's so much better. Yeah, and it has kind of like a black licorice or so taste. No, it's like... Dude, but you're gonna be consistent with it. This matters. It does matter, I get it. I'm a pill guy, right? Well, especially with that, because you said that's similar to the adaptogens where it's like, the more consistent you are, the better the compounding effect versus randomly taking it one time and expecting to feel this massive difference. It's like, take it consistently and you should feel a notice difference. Real quick, if you go to mindpumpl1.com, so what you can do is you can go in, sign up for one of the best certifications around for trainers, especially if you're really into workout, programming, biomechanics, developing muscle and strength. It's an incredible certification called Prescript. Jordan Shallow, it's his company.  No, that's something that we're doing, but I also want to point out for the people that can't make it to us in person, there's also a recording or you could do the virtual. Yeah, virtual, so he does have two options, obviously. But I want to meet everybody. Yeah, yeah, no, obviously the in-person one, you get to do the live Q&A with us. You have the, if you're the first 10, you'll be able to get into the studio and watch a live recording. And obviously those ones are, is going to be more expensive to be able to come in person and get the training from Jordan. But there is an option if you can't make it in person to still do the live stream with him too, so. ButcherBox is a company that delivers grass-fed meat, okay, heritage pork, chicken that's raised in ways that are humane, wild caught fish, all to your door. So you save money and you get healthy meat that tastes good, feels good, and also has a great price. And if you sign up through our link, go to butcherbox.com forward slash mine pump. They'll actually hook you up and let you have your choice of two pounds of ground beef, three pounds of chicken thighs, or one pound of premium steak tips for an entire year, included in your box for free, but you have to use the code mine pump.  All right, back to the show. First question is from Gigi Pat. Is it okay to work out sore even after 24 to 48 hours rest? Yes, here's the interesting thing about soreness. It often indicates that you went too hard in your workout. That being said, when you are sore, now this is barring the extreme, right?  Like this is an extreme case, right? But normal run-of-the-mill muscle soreness, one of the best things you could do is movement. Now, I wouldn't work out hard. That's a bad idea, but what you should do is do a light workout where you're just moving the muscle, feeling it stretch and contract and getting a little bit of a pump. This will actually facilitate recovery. It actually helps the recovery process. Yeah, the biggest key to that advice right there is modifying the intensity of and still training, still training or still doing, depending on how sore I am. So let's just use the legs, for example, like if let's say I squatted and I overreach and I'm really sore and it's time to, it's the, you know, two days later and I'm back to like say it maps anabolic format and I am back to doing another like compound lift for my legs, I'm going to choose to do that exercise. If I'm really, really sore, I might choose to do mobility work.  So that's the key and it will, it'll facilitate recovery. It's going to just, it's going to pump more blood, more oxygen, more nutrients. It's only going to help you recover faster. The mistake that people make is they train still and then they overreach again. They still go hard. Yeah, they go hard again. And it's like now you're not allowing the body to recover at all. That's why I like rubber bands. I tend to like lean into that a bit more because it's less damaging, but also too it just helps kind of facilitate that pump and that blood flow. And yeah, if I'm really sore, I tend to like gravitate towards that or a hold even with the rubber band or like hold poses isometrically. So the rubber bands actually like added resistance with that pose, but it just helps me to relieve a lot of that real tense, like tight, you know, restriction I feel. No, no, this is the trigger sessions of MAPS Anabolic. Yeah. You know, do this. You don't just facilitate recovery. Now, all things being appropriate, this actually amplifies muscle growth as well. So if you have a weak body part and you've trained it, try this the following day, get some bands and do some very light therapeutic exercises on that muscle with the bands and get a little bit of a pump, watch what happens. It actually is, it's pretty remarkable. It's like a turbocharger to that muscle building signal. Next question is from J.M. Bird 76. I was rewatching some old episodes and you guys were saying how the optimal amount of protein is 0.5 to 0.7 grams per pound of body weight. Now it's one gram. Could you explain how and why the number has changed? So this is what we get for trying to explain nuance versus just saying the statement and sticking right to that, it's like. Well, first off. Our message is simplified a lot. There's a difference between what research and study says and there's a difference between what we recommend.  It's easy and most people fall a little short. And so if I tell a client, your goal is to be 130 pounds. So let's eat 130 grams of protein, very easy for him or her to figure that out or remember that. And what I know from experience is most people who will have a hard time doing that, they'll probably fall a little short sometimes. And I'm not stressing out because of what the research says is ideal. Also, we didn't say 0.5 to 0.7, it's 0.6, 0.8. If you want to be precise, that's true. If you want to be precise. Mic drop. Okay, so here's what the data shows. 0.6 to 0.8 grams of protein per pound of body weight in lean individuals is the upper limit of where you can see benefits come from with high protein in terms of muscle growth. But there's something that's missing there. There's also the satiety producing effects of protein that don't show up in those studies. Eating a gram of protein just a little more has a much more pronounced satiety producing effect which most people benefit from because one of the biggest challenges to eating right is just you eat, you're just hungry or you crave food or you want to eat more. So actually, even if they don't miss this, because what Adam says is true as well, most people won't hit this so they'll fall within that 0.6 to 0.8. But if they do hit this, what they'll probably do is eat the appropriate amount of calories because it makes you satisfied. Eating that much protein makes you not want to overeat. Well, I think from a trainer's perspective, imagine your clients trying to do the math of 0.6 or 0.7 grams per lean body mass every time they made a food choice. It's just crazy. It's easy to just go... 120, cool. Four meals divided by four. Yeah, it's easy. So that's why you've heard us. We've communicated it. And then there's times when Sal is... Supposedly wins. Well, there's times when Sal, and this is not just this, this is one example of this, where Sal is explaining or regurgitating a study to you guys. And then you hear us give advice. And sometimes the advice isn't exactly what the study says because we don't always just go off with the... I want the advice to be effective. That's right. I want the advice to be the study. We always... The behavioral aspect. There's behavior on the psychology of these people that we factor in and experience. And so, yes, there's times where you'll hear us talk about a study and then you might hear advice that sounds different or maybe in your mind conflicting, but it's not. It's that we're also taking that study and then we're factoring all the other things that we know from experience. And then we've learned, oh, this is just a better approach is to give this person this advice. It's not one's wrong or one's right. Next question is from Nells 144. Is it better to build muscle, then lose weight or lose weight, then build muscle? Well, one of them, if you do it first, we'll make the second one easier. Or the reverse, if you do it first, it'll make the second one harder. What makes the second one easier? Or in other words, which one should you do first? So the second option becomes a lot easier to maintain. Build muscle first. If you build muscle first, you also now have sped up your metabolism. You now have a higher caloric maintenance which makes the fat loss later much easier.   That can be very challenging. It can be done, by the way, you could do the other way around, but I don't know why anybody would wanna make it that much harder. By the way, everybody does it the wrong way. Almost nobody goes and says it. Nobody does this first option. Nobody says, I wanna lose 30 pounds, let me build muscle. It's such a more enjoyable option. If you just look at it like enjoying the process and looking forward to your workouts and feeding yourself so you feel like you're actually, you have performance, you have strength.  You don't like it as much, you don't have as energetic, it just doesn't feel good.  Yeah, so if you're a new person, doesn't it make sense to start this out in a way so that you can build a relationship with something you enjoy?  To me, this is a very clear difference between a young, early trainer and a very experienced trainer. Totally. The only trainers I know that do this are ones that have experienced, that have had experience that have been doing this for a long time and they get this part. I mean, and by the way, I'm guilty of being the other trainer for a long time, right, from the first half of my career. If someone came in, they wanted to lose 30. And by the way- You would calorie deficit the most. A lot of that was operating from scarcity, right? I was afraid that I would lose the client if I didn't show them some sort of results right away. So even when I started to piece together the understanding and the science that supports why I should build muscle first, I still operated from a place of fear and scarcity that, oh no, if I don't show this client who's paying me all this money to lose 30 pounds, if I can't show them a good 5, 10 pounds off- Just the majority of trainers, right? It is. And so you gotta get past that. And the way you get past that is communicating that better to the client like what we're talking about right now, why, hey, we want to build muscle first because it's going to make this more enjoyable.  It is gonna be more sustainable afterwards. And so it is the better approach of going this. In fact, it's probably the only approach because maybe we could, maybe if you only had a little ways to go, you could cut enough calories and move enough just to get there. But boy, is that tough to see. Usually what happens is somebody comes in wants to lose 30, 40 pounds. They go to the lose weight first option. They lose some weight, they plateau. It sucks, they try harder. It's very hard. What's going on? My body's resisting. Quit. They don't even get to the second part. But if you do it the other way around, it's different. You see results, you feel stronger. Oh my God, everything's moving in the right direction. Then when you cut, you don't hit those plateaus. The hardest part about doing it the right way though is the psychological part. Of course. That is, and that- Because you're not losing weight. A good coach and trainer, that is what you're helping your client with is you're helping them navigate through the psychological hurdles of, oh my God, we've been working out for a month now and the scale is not moving. It's like, even though that is what you want to see for this weight loss client, because if you've done a good job. Address the difficulty first though. Yes. Right? You want to tackle that head on so you set them up for success versus having to address all of that later on. You're in the hole. Next question is from Lindsey Wandove. What are the pros and cons of a shoulder versus elbow rack on a front squat? So Justin, do they mean- Is it elbow rack and zircher? No, it means this. Yeah, I know, because I was thinking zircher too, but yeah, this is- Oh, so that's the bodybuilder style. This is the bodybuilder style. Do you have- Cross the shoulders. Yeah, there's a difference. One of them means you got poor shoulder mobility. Shoulder and wrist. Yeah. I mean, as far as the front squat and the muscles target or concern, it doesn't matter, right? They both hit the lower body exactly the same. The elbow rack position, or you would see a weightlifter do with the fingertips under the bar, it elbows up. That's a higher skill form of a front squat. It's a precursor.  Right. And so it's like- Or actually- It's setting you up. Yeah, exactly. It's kind of setting you up with Olympic lifts for, you know, following to make that point. So it's kind of like one of those in-betweener moves, like the muscle up, for instance, for like gymnasts. It's also like somebody elevating their heels to squat deeper. I mean, if you can't get past 90 degrees without elevating your heels, there's obviously something there. There's a mobility issue there, right? We lack ankle mobility that allows to do that. But of all you care about is building the quads and the glutes, and you wanna get a deeper squat. You wanna just do a leg workout. Right, and do a leg workout. Then yeah, sure, squat shoes are fine. But if you have to do it that way, the con of that is that it's telling you that there is a limiting factor there. You limit the wrist or shoulder mobility. And so, okay, from a muscle standpoint, it doesn't really matter much, but from a general health mobility, like you should address that. It is a high-skill movement though. Like the average person getting them to support a barbell in the shoulder, like the bodybuilder style is hard enough. That's even hard for people. Getting them to learn how to hold it in that rack position. I never taught a client how to do that because the skill required and the training required just to get the barbell in the position, it just didn't, there was no, we didn't see tons of benefit in the sense that it prevented us from doing a front squat. So I always taught this way. Now if I'm teaching, if I know in the future we're gonna learn how to do a clean, then you wanna learn that because how are you gonna get the, how are you gonna hold the bar up in the shoulders? You're gonna catch it appropriately. Yeah, otherwise you're gonna throw the bar but catch it with your teeth. Interesting, see, I would, to regress that, early on I would probably fold my arms. Now to regress that I would probably use straps or a towel. I would still teach the front rep. Yeah, I would teach the front rep position and then I just allow them to roll towels or wrist. I did that too. And then to hold it, just to teach that position, to be able to do that. But to me as a coach and a trainer, if my client can't do that and I see that it's because their wrists can't break enough or they can't keep their elbows up because of their lack of shoulder mobility, to me that's the big thing to take away from as a coach is like, okay, there's some work to be done.  Yeah, very different exercise. Oh yeah, oh, I guess we don't have clarity on if that's what they're doing. Yeah, so just to bring that up because I mean, you get a lot of benefit from that too, like for anterior reasons, but also your core is very much more activated and that's gonna isolate that quite a bit. You get more glutes with a Zercher position just because the lever's a little longer as you squat down, you're gonna use more of that extension. Loads more centering. More centering. Oh, I didn't even read it that way. I guess that could be- It could be, right? Yeah, yeah, no, I guess it could be asking that. Because a Zercher squat is a very- It's a different exercise. And it's also very functional. Because oftentimes- You just hold something heavy down here.  Yeah, yeah. Yeah, no, those are different exercises. I thought we were discussing the difference between the front rack and then the crossed arms, but that makes, yeah, no, I think you're talking about two different exercises and then they're different.  It's like they're different movements. Totally, even though squat is in the name. Look, if you like Mind Pump, head over to mindpumpfree.com and check out all of our free fitness guides. We have guides that can help you with almost any health or fitness goal. We can also find us on social media, Justin is on Instagram at Mind Pump Justin. I'm on Instagram at Mind Pump DeStefano and Adam is on Instagram at Mind Pump Adam.


We stand here in Vail today and across Brabant this week and remember it's not only of our past but mindful of our present because it's for places like this and for people like you gathered here today that the paratroopers of the 101st Airborne Division fought and died some 78 years ago. That the soldiers of the 101st Airborne Division, air assault, are once again deployed to Europe for the first time since World War II. The soldiers with me this morning are from the Second Brigade Combat Team and the 502nd Infantry Regiment and the 101st Airborne Division Air Assault. We represent just a small contingent of the American Army that finds itself once again in Europe to defend the peace that our World War II heroes worked so hard to secure during the battles that we commemorate here this week. These screaming Eagle soldiers represent our ironclad commitment to the North Atlantic Tree Organization. They represent a legacy of service that started here in Europe and continued in Vietnam and through the Middle East and Central Asia. They represent the very best that America can send in a time of crisis. Freedom does not lie on the street. You cannot just pick it up. We are proud to stand alongside you and the rest of our allies and partners just as you stood alongside us in Afghanistan and Iraq in the years following in taxes September 11th.


Ladies and gentlemen, the American Broadcasting Company brings to its entire network one of radio's most unusual programs. Pat, no back. If you rob a few graves, you can pay the rent. Nobody cares if you got sore eyelids. You get that way from winking at too many things. It's a good living if you don't run short of bail bonds and bends a dream. I discovered that Friday night after the fight broadcast, I wound up in a little whiskey barrel on Powell Street. I had a Glasgow farmer out of the red when they closed the bar and I drifted across the street for a cup of coffee. When I came out, it was raining and the street was deserted. I stood in the doorway and watched the dull neons through the rain. They looked splotched and dim like watercolors rubbed with a damp rag. I was beginning to rain harder and I started out of the doorway when she ducked in and bumped up against me. Oh, I'm sorry. Yeah, just wait for your blockers on the next one now. I guess I bumped into you. Don't go out on a limb. I'm very sorry. I guess I didn't know where I was going. It seemed to be headed in the right direction. How do you mean? Forget I noticed. It's raining awfully hard. I wonder if you ever noticed how... When it rains, you feel lonely and lost? Yes, yes, I did. When it rains, you feel lonely and lost. Yeah, well, we're both great readers, so if you let me get by, I want to get a cab. Yes, I wonder if I could ask you something funny. The bars are closed. No, I meant coffee. I'll pay for it. All right. In here? Sure. Come on. The counter will do. All right. What's it going to be? Hey! You back again? Yeah, two coffees. How come? I'm nervous. Two coffees. You like a bear claw, maybe? You know what we want? Two coffees? Yeah. Be right with it. Thank you. I know it's funny asking you in here, but... I have to talk to someone. I don't know what I'm doing. I won't argue. I've been away for a while. I've been away a long time. Guess a long time. Yeah, the kids will be glad to see you back. Huh? Stop it, will you, sis? Get to the point. Put the show on the road. I think I've lost my memory. At least it seems that way at first. Who are you? I don't know. I suppose you don't believe it. No, but I convince hard. Here you are. Two coffees. Everything all right? Yeah, everything's fine. Be down here. Here. See anything else? You thought up a name yet, Buster? No, you'd be crazy to believe me. Guess you'd be crazy, but... No, look, lady. If you've got amnesia, see the police. You don't believe me. I don't know. Maybe you are a leveling.  But suppose... Suppose there's something that happened before and the police would be looking for me. Please. Would you try to help me? How bad are you? Do you know what town you're in? Yes. Have you been here before? Do you live here? I think maybe. It seems like a place I've been. All right, I'll put you in a cab. You go see the police. No. Funny, I... I think I'll go outside for a minute. I don't want Hilda to know. Please, I'm going to... Oh, please, help me. Mrs. Your girlfriend's on the floor. Yeah, any suggestions? No, she's your date. All right, here, give me a hand, will you? What way are you going to take her? Hospital. She's an amnesia case. I hope your memory's good. Huh? You'll need it for answers. Your girlfriend's passed out for good. Don't tell me. Feel her pulse, mister.  That's good. You got a wailing wall? Sure. Use the collar while I call homicide. It didn't take 20-20 vision to see I was in trouble. Maybe it was an accident. Maybe it wasn't. I didn't have any idea why she keeled over there, but with a figure like hers, I knew it wasn't old age. I called a homicide. Matt Hellman was going to be in the picture soon. And then I'd stand about as much chance as a cornfield and a stone quarry. Well, I went through the girl's stuff. She had no identification. There were a couple of snapshots of her, but no name. I told the waiter my name and where Hellman could find me. Then I got out of there. I looked up Jaco Madigan, an ex-doctor who liked his booze pretty well. Smart guy, but he used a mason jar for a jigger. I finally found him holed up in some after-hours joint on Geary Street. He was talkative. Hello, Patsy. A small jug for Mr. Novakwaiter. I want to talk to you, Jaco. Patsy, you shouldn't be here. It's after hours. Yeah, look, Jaco, I need some help. What do you know about amnesia? Oh, a temporary blessing. I thought I had it myself once. Oh, stop it, will you? But it just turned out to be a case of bad bourbon, a peasant's drink I've decided. Get up the street level long enough for me to talk. I'm in trouble. Yes? I met some blister tonight who took a dive after one cup of coffee. Oh, I see. She had amnesia, or she thinks she did. Oh, she's dead. Why worry about amnesia? It's a minor ailment. Because Hellman's gonna think I had something to do with it. She picked out my lap.  I have high hopes. I gotta do something to hurry. Was she a nice girl? Yes, I guess so.  What difference does it make? Tell me about amnesia. Could she phony it? Maybe, not for long. What makes you think she did? I don't know. She acted like a butterfly with a jag on, and she had it straight for me. It just doesn't add. No. What cell block can I find you in? You can get off your spine and go to work for me. You know the hospital circuit? Hit them all and find out everything you can about recent amnesia cases. Well, how far back do I go? Until you find one of the jibes with this girl. It's impossible. Where do I start? I feel like Noah when they told him to beat the flood. She's blonde, blue eyes, expensive clothes. How big? Just the right size for a good dream. Start checking now and give me a ring at my place. No identification? None, none. She only said one thing when she fell. Oh, something crude? No, she mentioned a gal by the name of Hilda. That should be easy to trace. Sure. Just look it up in the phone book. You will find it somewhere between Hellman and homicide. Right, lover? Well, there wasn't anything I could do for the next few hours except sublet from an ostrich. I had to keep undercover because all I had to work on was a couple of snapshots and a girl named Hilda neither figured to get me out of this mess. Hellman was bound to ask a lot of questions because I had as much business being with a dead girl as Lucky Luciana when a finishing school. After I left Jaco, I took a sea car downtown and I went home to grab some sleep. When I walked in the apartment, the lights were out and that didn't make any difference. Hellman's badge was shining like a lake in Ireland. He was making himself at home with my ice cubes. Hello, Novak. Put the light on so I can watch you turn pale. All right, Hellman. Get to the point. Sure. Who was your girlfriend? I don't know. She was the coy type. Who are you, Novak?   She died of an overdose of sleeping pills. The coroner's report is murder. How about the space marked suicide? No dice. You don't take sleeping pills then tour the town for a spot to take a nap. So she died in the coffee joint. What am I supposed to do? Carry a stomach pump? You're supposed to tell me who she is. We'll go from there. I don't know. Neither did she. I've got that down as a lie.  She was amnesia. Who are you, Novak? All right, hire a medium then. She came into the restaurant a total stranger. We got social, but she died a total stranger. How are you going to prove it? I don't know. If I knew who she was, I wouldn't play footsie with you. Do I have to draw a map? She came in trying to sort out her marbles and never got there. I see. What did you find out? How about clothes markings? That's your department. How about laundry marks? I don't know. I guess you washed your own.  You're in a spot. If you want to help, now's the time to do it. You've got everything I know. From here on, you work the ball downfield. All right. Now from time to time. When you see a guy grinning out there, that'll be me coming to pinch you from murder. Well, that'll take lots of doing, mister, and lots of proof. You remember that. I'll try, Novak. But I may get amnesia. Good night, big shot. Backed into my headache and went to bed. Oh, sure. I was in a spot now. The scorecard said murder, and I was the medallist on the first round. If the police didn't know who she was, that meant she had no record we could work on. I still had the funny hunch about that guy pulling a phony. But if it was phony, I was worse off. I had all the best arrows in town pointing to me. Once Helman began to build a case, I could throw away those vacation folders. I slept until about nine. The phone began to ring, and I rolled over expecting to hear Gabriel on the other end of the line. It was just Jocko. Hello, Novak talking. This is Jocko. I've been working all night. We'll build a monument later. What'd you find out? The morning paper says the girl was murdered. Yeah, Helman gave me a preview. What'd you find out at the hospitals? Yeah.  Don't hang up until you hear about the girl. Go ahead. How's the description? Who's he? I'll get right down there. Thanks, Jocko.  Chance, even if the odds looked bad, I called up Halpern's office. He said he wasn't in. I tried him at home. It was listed for a place up on the Pacific Heights, and I took a cab over there. When I walked in the lobby, I could tell old man Halpern was making as much money as you can without your own printing press. The apartment made Buckingham Palace look like something George had picked up in a fire sale. The doorman was a sober-looking specimen, the kind of guy that breathes every other Tuesday. He gave me the fish eye as I went up the elevator to the third floor. Halpern's apartment was at the east end. The butler showed me in, and I waited in the living room. It was a real cozy place about the size of a small rugby field. A door opened on the side, and 200 pounds of regency oozed into the room like a wet ghost. Good morning. I'm Mr. Taylor. I'm Novak. Where's Halpern? Mr. Halpern is away on a business trip. I'm Mark Taylor, the family lawyer. I believe that's the phrase. Well, I'll drop by later, huh? Perhaps I can help you. I take care of most of Mr. Halpern's business now. Did you know his daughter? Yes, yes. It was quite tragic. That's what I hear. She was a victim of amnesia. She forgot all the details of her home. Must have been a temptation. Did the police ever do anything on it? The police were not advised, Mr. Halpern hired private detectives, but she was never found. Yes, it was quite tragic. You were your morning a long way, Taylor. She'd be about 25 now, wouldn't she? Taffy hair, blue eyes, nice figure. I believe she had leanings in that direction. Why, Mr. Novak? I think I may know where she is. You don't know what that would mean to this family, Mr. Novak. You don't know what it would mean to me, Mr. Taylor. Here's a snapshot. Let me see it. Well, Taylor, this is not a B movie. This is a picture of Marsha Halpern. You sure? I don't make many mistakes, Mr. Novak. All right, if you've used up your quota. She's downtown. I'll get in touch with Mr. Halpern right away. No, take your time. She's dead. When? Last night, she got sleepy. What? Yeah, that's right. Somebody gave her enough sleeping pills to stock a drugstore. I see. After all these years, to come back, and then this. It was most... Most tragic? Yes, yes, I was about to say that. It would be a great blow to Mr. Halpern. It would be a very great blow to Mr. Halpern. Have the police any ideas? A few. Do you know anybody named Hilda? No, why? Just sweeping out the corners. When's Halpern due? This afternoon. I'll arrange it. Excuse me, please. Hello, this is Mark Taylor. Now, that can't be right. Well, what did it happen? Yes, please, keep me advised. You want to wear a purple suit, Taylor? I have bad news, Mr. Novak. Raise yourself. I'm lightheaded. Go ahead. Mr. Halpern was killed in the motor accident last night. His car plunged down and ravine the Sacramento. That's very strange. Yeah, it must have been a great blow to Mr. Halpern. I left there and went downstairs. All the way down, I had the funny feeling that something was wrong. The way a person feels when he goes into a doctor's office with an incurable disease. It may have been Taylor. I don't know. He seemed all right, but... I still had that feeling that something was out of place, like a broken line in a perfect picture. I crossed the street and called Helman. It was too early in the day because he was as sad as a tap dancer in moccasins. Helman talking. This is Novak. How's the case? You look better every minute. How's the identification? We're moving. That's right. Her name's Marcia Halpern. She disappeared in 1941 with amnesia. San Francisco. Yeah, she's the daughter of Emory Halpern. And we'll check with old man Halpern.  Where? Sacramento. I got news for you, too. Yeah? We got a statement from that waiter. Who wrote it? He says you're chummy. I knew her for five minutes. With you, that's a... You suit yourself. I'm busy. Yeah, where you going? Same place you are, Helman, Sacramento. If I didn't move fast, I was deader than a Philadelphia nightclub. When they start taking statements, you can wire for flowers. I called Jaco and told him to check up on old man Halpern's estate. I borrowed a car and drove up to Sacramento. The accident was just outside of there. When I got to the spot, Helman was already in charge. He's going to make a fight for the job and last judgment. They were down on the ravine and Helman was beating around the bushes making more noise than a Venetian blind and a typhoon. Hello, Helman. Did you find anything? Get your own hashtag. I'm busy. Where's the body? You get the blues if you don't see one corpse a day. He's up in town. Do you notice those tracks up there in the road? Yeah. Double tracks don't mean a thing. Oh, sure. Maybe two cars fell down and one got lost. Wake up, Helman. If he drove over the side, he sure had a tough time making up his mind. When you're through on that pipe, I'll send over another. I'm going over the car. Helman went over the car and I started looking through the bushes. I don't know what I expected to find. Maybe an old boy's scout. After about 10 minutes, I shifted over the other side and it showed up right near the ground under a bush. Helman must have seen me because he came right over. What is it? What did you find? A handkerchief. Oh. That's funny. What's funny about it too? It's a handkerchief. The old man had a nose, didn't he? Well, he must have loved it then. This handkerchief is loaded with perfume. Take a whiff here. Yeah. Recognize it? Sure. I don't know about you, but I smell a rat. This was the first break and Helman knew it. I went back to town. I tried to get in touch with Jaco, but he was running up a tab somewhere, so I drove over to see Mark Taylor again. When I got to the apartment, I found out he wasn't in, but the pinch hitter was all right. When she opened the door, I got a nice warm feeling like a melted cheese sandwich. She was standing there in a dark, silk evening gown. It was strapless and she had no worries. When she spoke, it was like saying, put another log on the fire. Good evening. Taylor in here? Won't you come in? Sure. Mr. Taylor won't be in for a while. I'm waiting for him myself. I see. I'm Pat Novak. Is it urgent? Anything I can do? Let it work. You get my vote. Who are you? I'm Hilda Travis. I'm a friend of the family. Which family? Would a drink take off the rough edges, Mr. Novak? It might. Good. I'll make one. I brought Taylor a present. How nice. A girdle maybe? Or am I being catty? No, I hank at you. This one. Do you like it? Should I? I thought you might want it for a keepsake. I found it in a ditch up in Sacramento about 10 feet from Emory Halpern. Poor Emory. You should drink. Thanks. Poor Emory. It's full of perfume. You want a smell? That wouldn't do any good. You want to know if it matches my perfume. It's your idea. Go ahead. All right. Now, closer. That's it. See? Yeah. It's early in the evening, Mr. Novak. Don't blow our fuse. I won't until I find out who killed Marcia Halpern. Good luck for everybody's sake.  Did Taylor brief you? A little. I asked him this morning if he knew a girl named Hilda. He must have forgotten. Yeah, everybody's got amnesia. Just to make things easy, did you kill her? Just to make them hard, did you? I see. Well, just tell Taylor I called. Don't be a savage, Mr. Novak. You haven't finished your drink. And it's raining outside. I'll finish this one. That's good. Sit down beside me here. We'll finish our drinks and pray for our cloudburst. She turned out to be an old-fashioned girl. She had about eight of them before I got out of there. I tried to pump her, but she wouldn't talk about Marcia Halpern. I just became a family friend. After I left, I had ducked into a drugstore and started phoning Jaco. I finally caught him at the hunt room. He'd worked his way below the label already. Hello, Batchy! Yeah, what'd you find out? I just heard a funny story. It's old. What about Halpern? Who's next in line? Good boy, Jaco. New club. Go on. For instance, he's no talent scout. Meet me down in homicide in ten minutes, Jaco, if we're lucky we'll show Helman something. How to draw to an inside straight. Hurry up and don't stop for a bracer. He explained everything I could to Helman when Jaco got there. I went over it for him and sent him out on an errand. He was to meet Helman and come up to Taylor's apartment. I went on ahead. It was about eleven o'clock when I knocked on the door. Mr. Novak, so soon. Yeah, I'm coming in. Hello, Taylor. I won't say you're wearing out your welcome, Mr. Novak, but it's getting very thin.  Is that nice, Patsy? Because a guy named Helman wants you for murder. We've been over that once, Mr. Novak. We've got a whole new infield this time. Helman thinks you killed a girl named Helen Dupre. I don't know a girl named Helen Dupre. The bank vouchers say yes. They say you brought her over here six weeks ago. Wait a minute, Patsy. Oh, you made the team, too, Angel. They got you all fixed up for old man Halpern's case up in Sacramento. Get out of here, Novak. I left a drink here. Find a bar there. Get out of here. I wouldn't want to jam this gun through your face. Come on in, Helman. Did you bring him with you? Yeah. Come in here, fella. Is that the girl? Yeah, that's her. Where'd you see her before? Sacramento last night. He's crazy. It's a plant, Mark. Tell him more, Junior. You sure she's the one? Yeah. She was on the road and I seen her at the car with his old fella. Hang on, lady. The road gets bumpy from here on. My lights were out, so I guess she didn't see me. Take this little guy out of here. I got a story. I seen you hit the old fella, then start the car down the bank. I didn't hit him on the head. I told you that, Mark. Yes, you did. Tell him, Mark. Tell him I was here. How can I, when you tipped our mitt? That's right, Taylor. Get out while you can. Tell him I was here, Mark.  Don't you know you told him already?  You've been a bum guy all along. I keep my mouth shut. I'll give you a chance to talk. I'll tell you about him, Novak.   Keep still, Angel.  You'd better say it fast. You get any prize in the house, Taylor. Take your choice. Are you working for a living, Hellman? Yep. All right, then. Let's go. Yeah. See you downtown, Novak. Is she all right, charcoal? I'm out of practice. Well, Patsy, do you like it this way, baby? No complaints. I've always gone first class. I wouldn't like it the other way. Yeah. I could have used a little more time, but I'm not greedy. Still raining out there, Patsy? No. Let's stop raining. We're getting the clear up and over. Come on, Jaco, I'm talking to myself. Well, it seems that Marcia Halpern was dead for years. Somewhere on the other side, a girl named Helen Dupre got the story out of her. She looked a lot like Marcia Halpern, so she waited until after the war and contacted this Mark Taylor. They cooked up a hoax and the pot boiled over. She was supposed to fake amnesia and stumble into the hospital. The pictures in the wallet would be printed. Mark would identify her as Marcia Halpern. The same night, they planned to kill the old man the way they did. That way, Helen Dupre and Mark could split the dough, but they figured it wrong. Another girl named Hilda Travers had this story, too. She put the squeeze on Mark, and he blundered. He found out he didn't need a phony Marcia Halpern after all. The new claws and the will gave Mark the dough. So he loaded Helen Dupre with sleeping pills while Hilda gave the old man his last ride. All he had to do was wait for the dough and then split with Hilda. A few things went wrong. Sometimes it only takes one. Helen did her part, but she was no burnhard. And then at the last minute, she knew something was wrong and mentioned Hilda. I kind of began to wonder when Mark identified that picture so fast. After more than eight years, he identified it immediately. And then there was that handkerchief. From there in it was freewheeling. All we had to have was a witness. Well, that guy from Sacramento? Well, he was some actor that Jaco picked up in the hunt room. Hellman finally cleaned up the mess. Taylor's in the clink. Of course, the girl already picked up her end of the check. She was nice, too, if you don't mind claw marks. Well, it all worked out, and Hellman's happy, except that actor keeps calling him up for parts. The American Broadcasting Company has just brought you the third of a new series, Pat Novak for hire, starring Jack Webb. Jaco Madigan is played by Jack Lewis. Inspector Hellman is played by Raymond Byrd. Music was composed and conducted by Bassem Abloh.