Hi, my name's Leon Rowe, currency trader and trading coach at Trading180.com. Welcome to this week's Forex and Gold Supply and Demand Fundamental and Technical Analysis for the week ahead, starting the 15th of January. If you are a new watcher, a warm welcome to you and if you're returning, an equally warm welcome to you. And if you do find the weekly analysis videos that I record and post every Sunday useful, please don't forget to like, subscribe and share the content with your fellow trading colleagues. So getting into the week ahead, the 15th of January, it says from TradingEconomics.com In the United States, the eyes will be on retail sales, Michigan consumer confidence and export import prices. Housing indicators such as building permits, housing starts and existing home sales will also be closely watched along with speeches from various Fed officials. Overseas China will take centre stage unveiling crucial data including Qt for GDP growth, retail sales, industrial production, unemployment rate and the house price index. Meanwhile, the global economic picture will be painted by inflation rates and retail sales in the UK and Canada. That would be important. The Germany, sorry, Germany will contribute insights into the ZEW Economic sentiment index and Japan will release inflation figures. Finally, in the Euro area, investors will monitor ECB, European Central Bank, President Nogard's speeches and balance of trade and industrial production. And so, yeah, we've got quite a lot of news coming up this week and I just want to also say a warm welcome to all of the new starters in the Trading 180 Discord group mentoring area. And by the way, there is a more detailed fundamental and technical analysis of members only one. If you go to the Discord group right here, if you click on the trading videos, there's a link in there with a password and it will take you to this site right here and you will have access to the members only weekly and fundamental analysis. These videos around two hours long, as well as the weeks videos as well with trade setups, group call as well, the live group call recording that we had on Wednesday and other important information that I don't typically share on YouTube. So let's get into the week's technicals and some fundamentals now. Many of you may have seen or if you haven't seen that I produced a video called the Equally Weighted Currency Index and so if you go to my YouTube page, Trading180.com and you click on here Forex Strategy using Equally Weighted Index to identify the best forex trade setups and pairs, you will get the calculation as to how to and why I'm now using the Equally Weighted Dollar Index rather than the Dollar Index and really the kind of the cons to using the Dollar Index, the DXY over the pros of using the Equally Weighted Dollar Index and so this Equally Weighted Dollar Index, something I've been using for a while, I just haven't necessarily shared it with YouTube and publicly but I thought this year I might just share it publicly also as well that Equally Weighted Video will show you how to get the Equally Weighted Index for not only the dollar but also every other currency in terms of the major currencies, the euro, the pound, the yen, the Australian dollar, Canadian dollar etc. So yeah here we are with the Equally Weighted Dollar Index and looking at the dollar overall from a technical analysis perspective and zooming in what we see really is a supply zone right here, supply and prices really come up to here now fundamentally the dollar is it's got some mixed data right it's got some mixed data and it talks about US inflation picking up signalling bumpy path for the Fed so on Wednesday we had consumer price index advanced 3.4% the most in three months and underlying inflation measures watched by a Fed remained firm so there was a lot of headline inflation that came out was actually supportive of Fed rate holds for a bit longer so we're in the cutting end of the cycle and in terms of the interest rate cycle and the interest rate cycle depending on how soon the Federal Reserve and other central banks are going to cut rates and cutting rates actually devalues the currency will depend upon what happens with inflation and gross domestic products and so if inflation is coming in lower than expected or is disinflation and coming in lower below there to their 2% target and lower then it means that the Federal Reserve are likely to cut sooner so if it remains sticky as they say or doesn't necessarily come down as fast as expected then the Federal Reserve are likely to hold rates for longer and also again going back to my YouTube channel I basically explain this in a couple of videos one being the forex fundamentals webinar and it's called use macro economic cycles to understand news for swing traders and I also have another one somewhere I can't remember if it's here here is a forex trading webinar use leading and lagging interest rates to predict big trends so if you also have a look at those two videos on the YouTube channel and that will really kind of explain things a lot clearer so we had on Wednesday CPI come in and pretty much the analysts were basically saying that the the Federal Reserve may actually start to will continue to kind of hold rates for a bit longer but then on Friday we had another inflation measure which was a producer prices index and that ended up falling so that ended up boosting bets on Fed rate cuts and so because the PPI declined for a third month in December the longest since 2020 basically rate cut bets were back on so we can see that actually reflected in the Fed watch tool so this is a CME Fed watch tool and if you go to March 2024 this is the expectation and the probabilities of a rate cut or a rate hold in March in the market has actually increased its bets on a rate ease to 81% in in March whereas you know one week ago it was around 64% right and so the market is the market getting ahead of itself who knows but let's see what happens but if if the Fed do end up cutting in March that is actually going to be priced in so there could be the potential for the the dollar to actually sell off but also as well there are things that are supporting the dollar one of them being seasonality so this is a chart where it shows the seasonal performance of the euro dollar since 1999 and typically within the week two to week nine of of the years the dollar actually or the euro dollar gets weaker or devalues in exchange rate which means that the dollar actually gets stronger and so there are reasons for that but that is one of the measures also supporting the the dollar and also as well if the market is wrong about the the rate cuts and the chances of a probability of a rate cut in March they say they have to reprice and say some good data comes out for the dollar then in fact the dollar should increase in value and I do think that the dollar you can find reasons to buy the dollar or sell the dollar my bias is still actually to continue to to buy the dollar on a pullback I understand there's definitely some short send a short term sentiment which could push the dollar lower this week depending on what happens with other currency pairs as well but if the dollar does come down to this demand zone and the data supports that then I would be a buyer or if prices push higher then pull back into a newly created demand zone then that's really where my bias is but I definitely will understand if you know traders out there who are watching this video disagree with my analysis and want to take short trades because there's also very strong cases for taking shorts on the dollar also as well one of the things you have to be aware of is risk sentiment risk sentiment is another thing that kind of supports the dollar in a risk-off environment the the US dollar does tend to strengthen and one of the major risk events right now that is taking place is that global inflation it says here it was about to be tamed now Red Sea Attacks fan revival fears so there was a US and UK led airstrikes responding to Houthi attacks on ships and pandemic price surge was on verge of being tamed in 2024 so long and short of it is is that due to the attacks and the tensions in the in the Red Sea area inflation could actually start to rise again and actually global growth could also stall a little bit which means a risk-off environment which also helps actually support the dollar in potentially a short term now it depends on how things do escalate so if prices do come down and in terms for the dollar index and you know the the attacks are still escalating and dollar and prices come down then that could be a decent buying opportunity in terms of buying the dollar in a risk-off environment so that's where we are in terms of the dollar you can look for buy and buy or sell trades either way I think is valid but overall my bias is slightly more still to the to the upside or any dollar long so I'm looking for pullbacks on that moving to the dollar yen in the dollar yen last week we did come up to this supply zone there was a bit of disappointing news in terms of the Bank of Japan where the data doesn't support the narrative so the narrative is that the Bank of Japan are looking to high crates at some point the most likely month is April but now the Bank of Japan is considering lowering its forecast for growth inflation sources say so if this is you know indeed true then if they are lowering their their growth and inflation targets then that essentially means that the yen or the Bank of Japan are going to maybe hold rates for longer which then means a weaker yen so you're starting to see that play out on the with the dollar yen going slightly higher of course if this changes in the data does support the narrative that the Bank of Japan will cut sooner then you'll start to see the yen start to strengthen but I think in the short term you could see prices go a bit higher and again that also depends upon what happens with the dollar data right but if you are looking at buying then you do have a demand zone there so any pullbacks into this zone are long trades if you want to get long if you're looking for short trades then maybe a pullback into this area of supply or just slightly higher as you've got a decent area of support and resistance within that large area of supply looking at the dollar CAD and my bias would be to go long on this you can see really from last week that we've had prices kind of grind a bit higher now I'm going to keep the level there but also what we do have is a level of demand in here so I think any pullbacks into this area here are going to be decent for a long trade and again any pullbacks down into the one three twos I think really where the path at least resistance should be I think the Canadian dollar are actually forecasted to cut rates at the same time actually as the US dollar so either way in a risk-off environment you would still think that the dollar should want to strengthen eventually over the medium to long term over the Canadian dollar so let's see what happens with that of course if you're looking to buy the CAD now is a decent time or if you wait for prices to move to the upside so maybe the one three sixes one three five fifties are just above that I think that's a decent level to look for some short trades also as well you do have horizontal resistance where the banks have been buying and selling right I make sense as a level and that's actually quite a nice technical level looking at the pound dollar and the pound had some decent news this week or last week and it's got some news coming up this week as well as you can see you know from trading you've got the unemployment rate you've also got and that's almost at the Tuesday yep so unemployment you've got inflation rate expected to actually come down a bit and also as well retail sales coming in at minus point five so that's not necessarily great for the economy but last week we did have some growth in the month-on-month GDP numbers it says here UK recession risk lingers despite rebound in November GDP so the December figures probably hit by strikes and whatever sputtering economy leaves a bleak backdrop for next election so although the UK saw a modest rebound in November although not enough to rule out the prospects of a technical recession for the second half of 2023 is the headline and so again going back to the pound I think there are opportunities this is more of a a trade where you can again look for either longs or shorts at the moment but I think if I'm looking at long trades it would have to be really down at these lows and if you're looking for I'd say long trades on the on the pound then it'll be really down at these lows just beyond there that's a bit of a very nice top hunt level if not down at these in this demand zone at the one three one two fives also as well right now you could see if the dollar does start to strengthen I think anywhere now is going to be quite nice for also a short I think there's definitely this week is going to be is going to determine whether the pound is uh overall buy or an overall sell I think if unemployment comes in higher as forecasted and inflation comes in lower or much lower than expected then that dollar and so that pound should want to sell off as the Bank of England then will start to or the market should start to price in rate cuts sooner so there's the pound dollar you've got the pound yen and again I was in the group we were looking at this as a potential for a stop hunt but due to the weaker yen there was no setup here in terms of there wasn't an entry so um yeah no one took that trade or no one should have taken that trade in terms of that being a stop hunt now we're in a bit of no man's land so um you're going to have to look for now uh supplies and a daily supply zone up at these highs if you are looking to get short and buy the yen now if you're looking to buy the pound then I think this level technically is really nice very nice demand zone so any pullbacks into this zone right I think are going to be it's going to be very nice technically but again it really does depend upon what happens uh this week with the uh with the pound also there is some yen news inflation rate as well I think that is going to be also key for um for the bank of Japan as if we get higher inflation then uh rate uh rate hikes will be back on the table or at least an increased probability of rate hikes coming sooner so that's where we are in terms of the the the pound uh yen on the pound dollar so this was a I guess an explanation from last week's trade which um I am actually out of now the guys know in the room uh know that I'm actually out of this trade it was a decent trade got in at one position two positions and um ended up closing the final trade my final target was actually down at these lows the reason why I um exited the trade that was when my target was I think it was the 108 30s um the reason why I exited exited the trade is because I really wanted the data to support my narrative in terms of short euro dollar I'm still bullish on on the dollar or more bullish on the dollar than I am on the euro but the uh the issue is was was kind of PPI so I've thought to myself let me um just take profit and maybe reassess if prices do come back up again what I'll do is I'll enter into this uh supply zone again or if we do have a low a low something like this right made then what I'll do is I wait for a pullback up into a uh a supply zone which would be around here and then look for a short trade something like this so either way I can try and get back in if the opportunity presents itself so um yeah took some profit took all of my profits matter of fact on that trade and looking at the uh European central bank it says here that Christine Lagarde says ECB to cut rates when short inflation is set for 2 percent um nothing new there pretty obvious but this is more what you would call jaw boning where central bankers are just basically you know talking up or talking down their currency and it says here that most officials see first cut around mid 2024 market says they reckon that it's going to be earlier and the inflation has fallen steeply in recent months and is near as 2 percent goal so um she's not saying anything new um she's reiterating um what what really central bank policy is and so um but that has kind of supported the euro at least in the short term um but let's see what happens if you are looking to be a buyer of the euro then your nearest demand zone is going to be around here and in fact there is a there is a bit of a demand zone there but it's not the strongest area of demand um I don't think in an in and around this area uh but you can always look for a uh a move back down if prices you know break past this supply zone oh actually I don't think that's even a supply zone yet but if it does make new higher highs then it pulls back down into this area here then that could be quite nice as well for a potential uh buy trade so yeah you can look out for that also as well there is a level of support and resistance within there which adds to some extra confluence within that demand zone so um yeah either way you look at it I think the uh there's some decent levels here but my bias would be more to look for short trades as I think that the market may be wrong um in terms of uh rate cuts but again I think the data uh out coming out of the US will either uh support that and if it does then I would change my mind on the dollar but if it doesn't if it continues to kind of you know support the dollar in terms of um pushbacks on rate cuts and when they're supposed to happen then I will be a buyer of the dollar looking at the euro yen euro yen this was actually quite a decent uh stop hunt that happened uh here but then again I think the data that came out uh for Japan and the weakness in the the yen push price is higher so um we can delete this now and actually look at this now to be some demand so there's demand here so if you do want to be a buyer of the euro right and by the way looking at the euro the euro is expected to go into a recession next in the next GDP quarter on quarter reading that's the expectation now if they do avoid a recession then I think in fact the euro could be a decent buy because I do think that the euro would have to be repriced but um if they continue if if the data comes out and they're in a recession then um then the euro for me there's no reason to really kind of buy the euro um in the short term anyway so any pullbacks decent buys or if you're looking to buy the yen right now you'd either have to wait for prices to come all the way up to the highs or for prices to make maybe break past that demand zone then a pullback into what would be a new supply zone and then a move to the downside uh looking at the euro pound um I've actually now entered this on one of my uh one of my pairs to look for trades as I do think that the pound should be the stronger out of the two so any pullbacks into a level of supply is where I would look for some uh some short trades to buy the pound over the euro so let's see what happens there I think out of the three the dollar the euro and the pound I think the euro is still the weakest the pound and the the the dollar are probably second weakest but again it depends really on when the market expects rate cuts to happen as well as actually when the rate cuts do happen so um but the euro for me out of the uh euro and the pound I think because they're one of the first central banks so they're gonna they're looking to cut before the bank of England the pounds should really be the buy and the euro should be the sell trade so any moves back up to here I think a nice buying opportunities for the pound shorting opportunities on that pair uh Aussie dollar the Australian dollar I'm gonna talk about and I'm gonna break down an Australian dollar Swiss Frank pair uh that was a small win and uh the fact that I came out of that trade um based off of risk off so um that's going to be my my trade breakdown for the week um so stay tuned to continue watching but the Australian dollar um US dollar uh again there was really no strong demand anywhere there's a level of you know resistance but without any kind of demand in that area that's not an area that I'm looking to take in terms of daily demand and supply uh daily demands by the price is really to pull back to this uh demand zone of around what's that 0.656 um and if you're looking for any short trades then you're looking at um really a pullback into the uh supply zone up here now um again the Australian dollar are seen as the currency that uh will probably the central bank that will hike the last or one of the last central banks to hike uh sorry to cut rates I should say not necessarily high creates but cut rates uh the Australian dollar did have some uh news on inflation that came down so uh rate rate um rate hikes are definitely off the table but I think uh the Australian dollar is one of my pairs to buy this year if we get China uh recovery so if you get Chinese recovery then we should actually in fact uh be a buyer of the Australian dollar and also as well if the US dollar do enter into and certainly a matter of time and it enter into their rate cutting cycle then in fact the Australian dollar should be actually a really decent buy for 2024 so I think any pullbacks could be a nice positioning uh for some long trades and also as well again you do have um some confluence with resistance within that area there that 65 round number so that looks quite nice um in terms of uh a level to look to buy the Australian dollar um but for in the short term a bit more difficult and not really a pair that I'm looking at so that's on my list of things to pair pairs to trade and finally gold looking at gold gold is looking at being a buyer over the medium to long term uh and really gold rallies on geopolitical risks and fed rate cut bets producer prices index unexpectedly declined in December geopolitical concerns from airstrikes boost haven demand so uh the stars are aligning for gold at the moment and so with all that being said um basically it's looking for you know buy trades right if you believe that the dollar should weaken at least over uh this year um gold should be the buy and if there's going to be even more risk off uh tensions then you should see prices at least move to the upside now if you're looking to short uh gold it really means that overall fundamentally and resentment wise you think that everything's going to be okay and the dollar is going to strengthen this year so um I don't know whether that is is likely to happen I think we are now entering into the rate cutting cycle uh I've made my feelings known as well again on my channel this year uh which was here and I talk about interest rates um cuts this year and due to the political business cycle so I break down what the political business cycle is and why the federal reserve are likely to uh cut rates uh this year which actually will end up supporting uh gold so we could see lower prices of course you know in a short term we could see pullbacks but pullbacks I think overall should be looked at as as buying opportunities whether you're trading gold or buying physical gold or investing into some sort of ETF but again this is not financial advice I can't give financial advice uh so you know definitely do your own research so now I'm going to get into um the Aussie Swiss trade that I ended up taking break down of that and it was a small win uh but I'll break down as to the reasons why I came out early on that trade so here's the trade on the Aussie Swiss and um and so yeah I had entered on this uh bearish daily candlestick time frame and it was against this demand zone but if you zoom in the demand zone wasn't actually quite hit it was about a pip away but um but yeah it was pretty much um a buy in my opinion anyway um I'm not really necessarily going to um you know not take the trade simply because it was like one pip away also as well there was actually an an intraday stop hunt on this level so if you go down to like the lower time frame you can see around here that you had a you had a level level level and then you had a bit of a movement you had a bit of a stop hunt right there and then prices started to move to the upside so um yeah that was the lower time frame analysis but I had entered really based on um on this candlestick here which also as well I use an rsi indicator and there's certain settings on that as well as something called the volume divergence indicator so there was a there was basically a setup here on um on some indicators as well uh that I'm not going to go into in this video so that was really the entry and entry trigger and so zooming in a bit what I do is I break down the trade into at least a minimum of three and try to enter um into uh the 50 pending uh order retracement as well as a hundred percent right and so uh the original entry was here right and I had about a 20 I think it was about 25 pip stop something I think like that and it was there and the second trade was at the same same stop loss but it was at the uh 50 percent so you can see here that the day after I entered prices came down and basically triggered me into my 50 percent yeah now this trade ended up being um we were having a talk about it um a bit of a a little bit of a frustrating trade in the group now on my broker that I use um my stock my my profit target was actually a 57 24 and so uh uh when prices came up here in this candlestick here I thought that on my broker I would have taken some profit but it didn't right it didn't take profit on this uh second position which I typically go for at least a one to one and uh then I'll try to swing trade the second that market order position and so um it didn't quite it was about a pip away a half a pip away from taking profit pretty much like the spread and then it went away from my uh my profit target so then it went up again it was about five six pips away on that day and then it reversed again and then on Friday came up to maybe around about two three pips again to near my profit target and then it's reversed and so um yeah so I didn't manage to actually take profit on um on the or hit my take profit target on this pair in a way that I would want to but um on the Friday afternoon I did post this um uh in the uh in the members area and I said and let me just make this a little bit bigger so you can have a bit of a read so I said to everyone it says it looks like we are heading into a risk of scenario oil hit $80 a barrel on supply issues uh on yeah supply issues so that may follow through to currencies over the weekend as it looks like the conflict is escalating I'm going to take the small profits I have on the sw- Ozzy Swiss and reassess uh over the weekend if you are in a risk of currency so if you're long dollars uh Swiss franc or the yen and you may want to consider holding over the weekend and this was the um the headlines the front page headlines on on Bloomberg as well as you know the main story from Reuters on the Friday was that the US and British strike Yemen reprisal for Hoover attacks on the shipping so in a risk of environment you would really expect the Swiss franc to to uh increase in value as it is a risk of currency and the Australian dollar to actually lose value so at the time um I took profit I think um the second position was somewhere around here I think it was about there um and the uh you know the uh the market um the market order was pretty much near break even as well it was somewhere around here it was a very very small win so um so I ended up taking profit I think here was around this um 0.574s or 0.575 area and so small win on both of those and really the lesson is is that is that it's okay to take profits if you're in a trade and the fundamentals or risk sentiment is going against you right now let's say for example price you know does continue to go higher right the market ignores the risk sentiment and goes higher oh well it was still the smarter thing to do because you know we can always re-enter a trade if it pulls back there's going to be hundreds of thousands of trades that we're going to take in our lifetime this is only one of those so even if it goes to the upside and then I miss out on this trade you know so what it is what it is whereas you know I would be a bit of a I wouldn't have to say a fool but I would be uh um wouldn't make this for the smartest decision uh to continue to hold this knowing that there are potential risk sentiment you know plays going against me in strong resentment place and so um I would rather take my risk off the table take the little bit of profit that I do have and then reassess over the weekend if the market doesn't you know react to this then fine you know to that risk event but if it does then of course I would say myself some money and I can also re-enter cheaper when um when the risk event does eventually resolve itself because typically things always do right because and even if it doesn't resolve itself the market stops really kind of caring and pricing it in because look at what happened with the um with the Ukraine and Russia conflict right that isn't even a factor now whenever we trade currencies or looking at the Swiss franc or the Japanese yen um when at the time the first few months of that conflict there was a lot of risk off sentiment which was affecting and flowing into those safe haven currencies you know years later we don't even consider it so in the short term smartest thing to do was to just take profit and then reassess um what is going to happen or what may happen and then when the dust settles then you can uh look to re-enter again once it comes down to straight fundamentals and so um with that being said that's the breakdown of the Australian dollar Swiss trade uh I hope you have a great trading week and speak to you soon take care and um all the best


Okay, the meeting is underway and the floor is yours. All right, thank you, Rai. Thank you everybody for joining. Welcome to the new cycle of the TSE. I'm again, very honored to be the chair. And so I hope you all use the few minutes and that I've passed to take a look at the antitrust policy notice.  So with that further view, I think we can get started. I did put, I didn't have my time in the announcement of my position and the discourse. So I still put together an agenda. And so I hope it's enough to get us started. Brian. Yeah. Hi. Sorry, I couldn't make it last week. But now I get to combine both a welcome to the new to it to the new TSE and a welcome to the new TSE chair. And congrats are no on having been elected. And I definitely want to thank Dan for very confidently managing the community for the last year and helping us navigate through some extremely complicated and weighty issues.  And turnover is good. Change is good. One of the things that was exciting about the new TSE is that, you know, we have five new voices there. And, you know, I think that that kind of 50, 55, 44% I guess turnover or 40, 45% turnover is is about right. You know, I none of us should feel like this is a job for life or a commitment for life and be able to move on. And so, yeah, I think that's pretty healthy. And there's no doubt many of you have seen there's some confusion out there in the world about what being on the TSE means. Being on the TSE does not mean representing your company. It does not mean representing the projects that you're on. It means representing yourself and your take is the right thing for the hyperledger technical community as a whole. And I have complete confidence having met and engaged with each one of the TSE members at times in the past, some less than others and those I haven't gotten to know as well. I get to know better. Angelo and Troy, I don't think I've engaged enough with you, but I would love to find some time to chat. But I feel like, you know, as long as both in our commitment and in the actuality of how we, you know, work together as a TSE, we reflect, you know, ourselves and and our best understanding of how to make open source work. I don't think any of the outside concerns about how this plays out or have any sort of merit. So with that, I just want to say thank you to all of you who not only got elected, thank you to all the others on this call who ran as well. And I am also very encouraged by the conversations about potentially, you know, increasing the size of the TSE and some interesting approaches to it. So with that, I'll hand the mic back to Argo. Thank you, Brian. And of course, I second what you said about my predecessors, both Chris and Dan, and I feel like they have big shoes to feel, but hopefully I won't disappoint and be able to get us further down the line. So with that being said, I think Dan, you're the one who set up the maintainers submit. I did look at the list of agenda topics. There is quite a few that have been proposed. How are we doing? Yeah, so I think we're still looking for some more participation. I reached out on some of the different rocket chat channels, some of the projects that I didn't see a lot of names from. So still hoping to get the participation up for that. But yeah, it's nice to see the list of agenda topics growing. We can start to schedule those out soon. Very good. But so the registration is low for now? I don't remember numbers off the top of my head. I mean, it wasn't bad, bad, but it was either. There were some projects that weren't well represented. Okay. So I mean, if you need help reaching out to those specific projects, let me know. I'll see what I can do. Thanks. Anything, any questions on this from anybody? Yeah, I don't have access to it. But Salona, do you have access to the registration sheet that you could give us a sense for how many people are there? Sorry, mute button. I believe, I haven't checked it today, but yesterday I think we had about 22. There was a lot from sawtooth. I think we're, and this is, I don't have it in front of me. But there were definitely a lot of projects yet who didn't have representation. And so there was sawtooth, there was some transact. There was fabric. I believe Nathan's coming from Indy. Slash areas. But I don't remember a lot of some of the others having representation. So. And one, one thing I'll add is, you know, we believe it's important to be able to get people there. We know that asking people to travel to, you know, to the United States to, you know, whether that was Minnesota or New York City or wherever can be a challenge. If there's any maintainer out there, especially on a project that isn't well represented yet in that group, for whom the travel costs, I mean, we've not created a formal travel program assistance program yet. But if informally, it would be helpful to be able to get airfare and have a few nights of hotel covered at some reasonable cost. Do get in touch with Solana or myself and we can talk about it. All right. That's great news. Thanks, Brian. I had two questions if that's okay. One, will there be any specific TSC activity there? I know we'd like the TSC members to go. And the second would be, is there anything, you know, can we propose and have working group people there as well? So no, I'm not planning on there being any TSC subjects there. And I think for this maintainer summit, it'd be good to just see how much we can focus around code and projects. And, you know, I think that's sort of the focus of it. Let me also try to add what I find works best when open source communities that really try to be inclusive, do you have these kinds of face to face summits and gathering is to really focus on creativity, collaboration, the kind of back and forth around a white board that is hard to do, you know, virtually, but avoid things that are decisional, you know, that either, you know, unintentionally or whatever, you know, exclude the people who couldn't make it there, who couldn't be in the room. So it'll, I'm sure be a great opportunity to figure out things like, well, how might Transact and Fabric work better together? How might the different projects make better use of Indy, you know, that sort of thing. As I understand it, there's one or two people coming from Consensus who will be able to talk about Bezu. So working that in is going to be a really, in figuring out where those touch points are. I mean, all these kinds of things are about ideation, you know, and if you can just make sure, you know, the results of all that work get brought back to the relevant project lists and JIRA tickets and other kinds of things. That would be the best kind of outcome for my take on what, you know, this meeting could accomplish. Yeah, definitely the overarching goal is cross-project collaboration. So it's, maybe there'll be an opportunity for individual projects to have some discussion, but it should really be cross-projects that should not imply to anybody the kind of things like, well, here's our release objectives for Sawtooth or, you know, something like that, that would normally take place on the mailing list or through RFCs. So I'm just taking a really quick look here at the responses. We have 23 people have signed up and it's one from consensus. All right, I mean, you know, I always say for these kind of meetings to be successful, we need to have agenda items. I mean, I was encouraged to see we have quite a few that have been proposed. Obviously, it only works if enough people show up as well, but hopefully we can close that gap in the next few weeks. All right, so let's move on then. Silona, there's a bootcamp coming up. So the Russian bootcamp is moving along. We're going to be doing the big press for, the big press for press next week. So registration is up, all the stuff is up. We just have to get some of the session leaders to get all of their sessions in, but we do have a bunch of session leaders who've already said that they want to do it. They just haven't created their sessions yet and put them on the grid. But I like to have that grid partially filled out before we do the big press push. So they're all working on that this week. And then we'll be doing our blog post about it and they're going to be doing their press releases and we're also going to be hitting telegram, Facebook and some other social media to get people to register and sign up. All right, thank you. Any questions for Silona? Okay, hearing none, let's continue then. So just a quick note on the quarterly report template. I actually made a change yesterday. I mean, right, really made the change, but on my request, I was reflecting on, you know, with my new hat on, how I could try to even streamline further the processes and those calls and focus, you know, to give us more time to focus on maybe what people really expect the technical state committee to focus on. And, you know, thinking of the quarterly reports, I have to say I have, and, you know, I really think that we have improved in having these reports put online beforehand and having people be able to review them and try to basically not have the reporters go through them verbally, but essentially try to focus discussion on, you know, anything that's worth highlighting. And at the same time, you know, sometimes I think it's not always easy, maybe in some cases, there's some language barrier that makes that more difficult than other times. And so essentially I decided to make one change to the template and which is to add a section that explicitly gives the reporter the opportunity to report, to highlight topics or issues, questions they want to raise to the TSC. And so my expectation is this would, you know, allow us to maybe go even quicker through the reports and, you know, by highlighting what we really need to talk about during the calls, if anything. And, you know, hope there may be cases where you have nothing to say and that's totally fine. But at least I know that there are cases in the current reports, the latest reports that I went through where they were mentioned, oh, we'd like the TSC to review this, the case of the taxonomy, for instance. And so I thought it'd be good to have that highlighted in the report with a specific section. So I figured this would not be controversial. So I kind of took the liberty to just go ahead and make that change. I hope everybody, you know, finds this suitable. I just have a question seeing the highlight. Is that question slash issues for the TSC or is that questions for the TSC and other issues that need to be, like, I'm just. Yeah, yeah, that's a good point. I think it meant to be question slash issues. All right. You're able to change that. Yep. Yep. Okay. Anything else? All right. So that's what I was hoping for. They would be not controversial. And people would just think that it's a good improvement. So let's move on. Then the next thing that I want to highlight, you know, is again, trying to be a bit more structured on how we address some of the issues that, you know, are being brought up to the TSC or that the TSC has to or wants to tackle. I figured we could try to use the wiki and we started doing a little bit of that through the task force.  And so I kind of went through some pain in learning how to, you know, effectively use the wiki. And so I thought I would try to use that experience to the benefit of the TSC. And so I created a new section to basically keep track of the topics that, you know, are being, how to be discussed or, you know, decided on by the TSC. And so you will see that in the navigation bar on the left on the wiki, and there are links there at the top of the menu. There is a section called pending topics for the TSC. And basically anybody feels, you know, feel free to add a page there. All you have to do this list basically is automatically updated with a macro. All you have to do is create a page, which is a child of that page, and it will add it automatically to that list. And then there's another section called closed topics where we move things there once we are done with them. By the way, it doesn't mean we have made a decision. We may decide not to tackle it, which is why it's called closed topics, because there may be different ways of closing them. So you can see that, you know, we've populated that section quite a bit already, and I'm happy to see that there's quite a discussion that has already happened. You know, I think we're better off trying, I was debating over the granularity of those.  And rather than having one page with all of that, I think we're better off having them, you know, handled individually so that we have more siloed threads that are easier to follow. And so again, I also created a few that basically placeholders that point to other things like the sub-projects refer to the last issue we have related to the life cycle task force. And I created some for the work groups as well. And, you know, this is just the beginning of this. I encourage other people to come and add to it as they see fit. But, you know, I hope you find this to be useful. And so there's a link in the agenda at the end called Backlog, which basically is populated with that same macro that shows all the topics that are being currently listed, the spending, and this will, you know, give us an oversight on what's going on there. Any comments or questions? So I have a comment. I know one of the backlog items at some point was the decision log. And I'm assuming this is part of that. But I do know that Confluence has a, I don't know what it's called, plug-in, a macro, a something that is basically a mechanism for you to do this sort of thing with a log page, right, where all the decisions are captured together and then it has a status about where that decision is. And I wonder, you know, similar to how we have on the Wiki with kind of the headers for working groups and the headers for projects, if we should do something similar to that, where we can actually see kind of the status of these backlog items, right? Are they in progress? Are they completed? Are they resolved with the decision? That sort of thing. So maybe, maybe I'll, what I'll do is send a link to the decision log that I used in the past. And we can take a look at that and see if it helps this progress process, any? Yes. Thank you, Tracy.  And every time I remember it when I'm away from my desk, and I think, oh, I need to add one item about that. And then when I come back, I forget.  And I think we should create an item about this. So at least it's on the reader. I, you know, I welcome any kind of suggestion on how to do that better, obviously. So I'm very interested in what you can share there. Yeah, we'll do. And so one thing I do want to highlight is my expectation is, you know, so the backlog at the bottom of the agenda basically gives us a view of what's there. And, you know, as things progress and mature and are ready for decisions, I will highlight those as part of the discussion section directly as well. Right. So everybody else, any other suggestions or comments, questions? I hope you guys find this useful. I like it. All right. So I have this kind of organization to help you. All right. Thanks. Okay. So if there's nothing else, then I think we can move on. I put one agenda item really for that was meant to be for discussion. You know, we have, as it was pointed out, five new members. And I actually don't mean to limit that to the new members if other people were there before and are still around, you know, have topics they'd like to point out, you know, I'm happy to open the floor to others. But I was interested specifically about the new members. And I thought it could be interesting to hear from them, not the bio, because anybody can go look at the nomination statement and see the bios, but more what, you know, they would be interested to see being tackled by the TSC moving forward. And, you know, any ideas on what's broken, what we could change, do better, I think is welcome. I know that there are people who've kind of lamented on the fact that we don't focus so much on technical issues. And I feel the pain there. You know, I will say that I'm a bit, I was a bit surprised. Let's say that, you know, we have been left with a framework that's actually fairly weak. And there's a lot of those questions that we are tackling now related to the TSC election and the terms and all this stuff that I would have expected us to have from the get go, especially with the Linux Foundation that has made similar projects going on. I thought we would have inherited the template, you know, bylaws with a lot more details than we have. And because we don't, we unfortunately end up having to deal with a lot of this that we have to define for ourselves. I am all in favor of trying to, you know, limit this to the minimum, try to be as expedient as possible so that it doesn't take all our time. Because I don't think anybody really want to run for the TSC to talk about the number of seats we should have at TSC. But, you know, this is just something we have to do because, you know, that's just the way it is. So with that being said, you know, I don't want to take up all the time. So let's try to get through the list. Angelo. Yeah, thank you. So let me tell you that unfortunately I'm sick, but I wanted to join this meeting because it's my first TSC meeting. So I'm very happy to be part of this group in driving and shaping Hyperledger. So let me say just a few words quickly. I'm very sorry for that. But as you can check for my short bio, I'm a very technical guy. I'm a photographer. And I think blockchain technologies exist because crypto exists. So my stress will be on these topics. To put more and more crypto at the center, to have more and more advanced technologies in Hyperledger to improve the aerobicity between the different platforms. So that's for me the goal as a member of the TSC. And with that, please don't let me say more words because I'm very but thank you so much for all the people who also voted for me. I really appreciate that. Thank you. All right. Well, thank you Angelo. Thank you especially to show up for showing up even though you don't feel good. So thanks. And you're very welcome. So I don't think Gary has shown up. Busy. Gary is not on the call. Okay. All right. Are you there? Yeah. I'm here. So excited to be here. Terms of things that I was excited or what I want to kind of tackle as part of the TSC now. I think the last couple of years on Hyperledger, I've done. I've been always interested to see how some of these projects can work together. What are the things that come out of that? And from a TSC standpoint, seeing how to enable that and make those kind of getting those technical discussions started. How do we make sure they, you know, they go move forward, make progress. Those are the things I'm interested in and seeing how from here at this standpoint, how we make that kind of more inclusive and basically more possible because I feel like we do have a lot of projects, but that cross project collaboration doesn't always work and it is a difficult thing. So trying to see how that can go forward and become easier. Yeah. All right. Thank you. I think that you can definitely help us there because you, of all people have actually been working in that space with the chain code EVM for fabric. So with cooperation with borough. Yeah. Yeah. Very good. Thank you. Tracy. Yeah, I'll plus one. I think that definitely, you know, that cross project collaboration is going to make us stronger. Right. We're going to end up with projects that. We'll, we'll meet the needs of many, right? Instead of the needs that needs of potentially fewer. Right. For me, I really want to focus on how do we make the, the community itself stronger, right? Making sure that it's easy for new people to get involved and stay involved. You know, I think the whole diversity, civility and inclusion working group that's been formed is, is, is extremely important. And, and something that, you know, we as the TSE need to, to nurture and make sure that it, it exists. I think, you know, that's part of making sure that it's, that people will want to stay, right? When they feel like they're part of a community that. Is welcoming to them and that they want to participate in is, is something that's important. Some of the other things that I've, I've heard kind of come up recently, I think is, is around the working groups and what specifically they need to accomplish, right? And so I think being potentially a bit more directive from the TSE to the working groups instead of letting the working groups focus, I think is important, right? I think if I look at the working group history, they were, they were formed with a certain thing in mind and maybe that thing is no longer relevant because they've accomplished that goal. So what, what can they be accomplishing or working on now to make sure that they're, they're successful in what they're doing. And yeah, so I think those are kind of top of mind at the moment. And again, thank you for, for voting for me. I'm really looking forward to, you know, making the community stronger and working with everyone to do that. All right. Thank you, Tracy. Again, you're welcome. Troy. Thanks, Arno. First of all, I'm quite excited to be joining these meetings and it's really quite a privilege for me to be here. So thank you to everybody. Of course, I'd like to echo what the others have already said. In particular, I think focusing more on, on technical topics is of course of interest to me. And especially looking at how do we do better interop between applications that have a DLT backing. That was one of the reasons I was quite excited about the area project where that's effectively one of the explicit goals of that project. And I'd really like to see more of that going forward. All right. Thank you. Okay. So let me turn to the, to the, to the, to the existing or, I mean, we all know, but to the previous members, you know, who were there before and maybe anybody else who wants to bring up any issues they think we should focus on moving forward that maybe has not been focused on so much silence. Okay. So we're doing great. We're doing everything we should be doing is that what that means, right? Hey, Arno, this is Dave Huseby. There are a number of little issues that are about governance that we should probably bring up with the TSE. I was planning on getting you guys, you know, letting you get settled before hitting with this, but there are things around like authorship and copyright. When we publish software to third party distribution platforms like crates.io, npm, that kind of stuff. Like a lot of little, you know, niggling details that I'd like to have the TSE weigh in on, because we've had some disagreements amongst the projects. And it always comes back to where's the policy. And a lot of times we don't have the policy. So we've been, Rai and I have been collecting a lot of these little things. And I think you can expect us to send you guys send the TSE mailing list.  Well, no, not a rough policy, a specific policy so that it can be enforced. All right. Thank you. That sounds good. May I suggest you create topics under the pending topics for consideration by TSE for those? Yeah, we'll do. Thank you.  Just so you know, my philosophy is that we should work offline as much as possible, but in my experience calls are a good way to force closure on some of the discussion that otherwise purely offline tend, you know, are hard to reach and I'm not saying it's impossible. There are clearly communities that work entirely offline, but I think, you know, we can be more efficient in closing issues with calls every now and then like we have now every weekly to close some of the topics that are happening offline, but I certainly encourage people to, you know, entertain discussions offline as much as possible between the calls. Whether it's on the mailing list or the wiki, I don't have a strong preference. Yeah, so. So I know I was trying to find my mute button. Okay. Unfortunately I found it. So I was about to say, you know, I'm hoping that this round we can spend more time with technical steering and, you know, deciding the direction we want to go. I think hyperledger has grown a lot and the industry has changed a lot since hyperledger was formed. And, you know, we've danced around the convergence and what does that mean? And I don't think anyone thinks that it means we'll have a single DLT, but, you know, where do we want to go as a group? Do we want the Apache model of, you know, as many projects as we can do we want, you know, something that is more, you know, a lot of cross-project collaboration, which I think is the way we're going, but it would be good to have some discussions on that, you know, from a technical point of view, where do we want to be in the year? You know, things like that. And then we can figure out how to stay the course to get there because we are a technical steering committee. So, you know, figure out where we want to go and how we want to get there. Yeah, well, I understand this is an interesting topic for sure and an important one. I think it's a tough one, but, you know, I appreciate it. Thank you. Yeah, I hear a lot of people say this interest in doing more technical steering and it feels like a lot of times our discussions gravitate towards the things that are immediately in front of us as the steering committee, which tend to be more procedural. And so maybe that's something that we can be conscious of as we start to look at these governance and election questions and stuff like that. Maybe we sort of cap the amount of time that we're willing to spend on each of these in order to give more time to the technical matters. We might really benefit our long-term interests more than some of these things that are in front of us today. Yeah, this is interesting thought. And it's a hard balance to find, right? And because we've discussed this, you know, there are issues about how much steering can we actually do given the independent projects and the fact that they all kind of follow their own course. And, you know, I think I've never heard anybody say we shouldn't encourage convergence into, you know, cross-pollination, integration, all this good stuff. And yet, at the end of the day, we can't force anybody to do it.  So I think we have to create an environment that definitely favors these integrations and cross-projects but initiatives. But, yeah. So I'm happy to, you know, get the TSC to work, to try harder to get there for sure. Chris is on. Welcome. So anybody else? We haven't heard her go from. No? All right. So we, let's, let's move on then. We had the quarterly reports. I have a couple of things to highlight. So the smart contracts working group sent a report. I am not sure why it's labeled Q2 given the date at which it was created. Is Sophia on by any chance? I saw a few of us actually did review it and some ask questions and I haven't seen in response. So maybe they are not here and they're not in position to respond. But I don't think there's any major issues, but there were some questions that would be interesting to get answers to. Okay. So if there's nobody from that group, I guess we'll have to leave it alone for now. We can try and get back to it next week. The other one is the learning material development working group. Bobby. Hello, how are you? Yes, hi. So you may have heard what I said earlier about, you know, highlighting issues or questions for the TSE. I know you have some. Yes. If you want to go to the report, if that's possible. Yeah. We're looking at it now. Okay. First, I just wanted to thank everybody and congratulate the winners for the TSE. It was a privilege to be considered in the group, especially someone who is not a coder. So I do appreciate that the consideration it was quite an honor and congratulations looking forward to the leadership. Again, the learning materials working group is goals or just trying to support the learning needs of the community. And we're trying to do that by setting up a library for one stop information. So we, you know, redesigned our wiki page to have information on how to get involved, how to get a Linux login, how to join the calls, how to edit pages. Again, all learning information to onboard to help. And then the next big thing is the resource library and that resource library we would like to house all the documentation that's been created in the community. And basically how we want to do that is by a some jumping down a little bit on the working group health report, but is by a survey. And I know that the TSE previously had mentioned wanting to survey the community, especially the project maintainers, just to get information on contact people and how to get in touch and who to get in touch with when meeting information from the projects, working groups and special interest groups. So the learning materials group also needs a survey to go out to find out what documentation everybody's already created so that we can store it in this library. So we were going to take on the task of if, again, with the permission of the TSE and with your guidance, doing a community survey, getting the questions answered that all the groups, you know, could be a group, everybody can get questions in the survey that they need to answer to make each one of these community groups more efficient. So we wanted to work on that this quarter on getting that done so that that resource library can be a real source for the community to go to for education and learning materials. Again, right now on the homepage, there's the new over general the general presentation that everyone can give discussing the Hyperledger greenhouse as it stands this quarter. And that's updated quarterly. So you can always find that presentation on our homepage updated. We'd like that to be basically where all the documentation can be found for all the community to look at. That's about it. If anybody has any questions. So the the DCI workgroup is also interested in putting together a survey for substantially different reasons. And one of the sensitivities that they've been exploring is how not to over survey the community. So, you know, a couple of different surveys going out. We're going to get fewer and fewer responses. So it might be good to coordinate with them if it's likely to hit the same people. Absolutely. I was hoping it, you know, to do get all the questions from the community that they need answered and do just one survey. And we set up on our wiki page a way to manage that already. So like we put the different groups and when we'd send the survey out and when it came back. So the wiki page is already set up to handle a survey of that size. We just need the support of the community to gather the questions that we need answered. And then the only other thing I didn't really touch on is the best practice documentation. And we're trying to, we're working with Salona to try to develop standards for white papers, use cases. We have the graphic library getting set up. So that should help people and they need to develop learning materials to be able to find the right logos and the right style sheets. So that's there too. And we're working on a community key term glossary so that when you're creating documentation, you can look at and decide what definition the community has for these terms that are constantly changing. And again, once we compile the key terminology section or the glossary, we wanted to prove the definitions approved by the TSC or by somebody before we say, he's ready. So that's basically what our group has been working on. Again, membership. We've got a few new members. We need new leadership. We need new people to join the group so that we're really working on our onboarding and getting people to get involved. All right. So thank you. I mean, for the, for the terminology, I, you know, I expect you at some point have been to flag it and say, hey, now we think we're done. Can you please review it? And then we can all have a look at that for the survey. You're saying you would like to get questions from the TSC. You know, anyone who needs questions answered in a survey to send us the questions and then we would just send out one community survey. Yes. So we heard from Dan there's the DCI working group also doing something similar. Do we have anybody else who knows of any of those, you know, needs or anybody who has some questions they would like, I'm trying to get, you know, just to understand where I'm trying to get to is, you know, if we just say TSC in general, it's like everybody and nobody. So, you know, my fear is nobody answers. Nobody says anything and you're left wondering, didn't, did they not hear me or does this mean they have nothing? So I want to be more precise about the question and, you know, hear an active no rather than not knowing whether you're just being ignored. Well, again, we'll take the survey page on our wiki site. Anyone can edit and add questions and that's right where we are at now is each project or the projects that work in groups and the special interest groups have a section. So if anybody has any questions for those communities, they can go to that page and add the questions because right now we're just compiling questions for the surveys. Okay, sounds good. Thank you. Obviously you don't want to have too many questions either, you know, back to what Dan was saying and I agree that having too many surveys is not going to be good, but having a service that's too long is not good either. You know, I'll share with you some, you know, some experience. Currently IBM HR has some series, a whole series of polling questions. They send one question every week. It takes two minutes to answer and I think they have great response because it's very simple to answer them. So I think there's, you know, you have to find the right way to go at this. So I would just add that I think it's important that we understand the goals of surveys, right? What are we trying to get out of it? What sort of information? I think that was really helpful when the DCI Working Group came up with goals for what it is we wanted to get out of this survey to help us focus our questions. So do we have goals for the survey? Is that listed on the wiki pages as well? For, I can add the goals. I know the goals that I heard in prior TSC conversations where they would like contact people. So they know when they need to contact the different projects or groups who that would be. And for the learning materials, we again just want to collect the documentation. That's already been created. So the discussion that we'd had to my recollection in the past on that was that staff was looking for the consolidated list of points of contact. And some of the feedback from the projects was just hit the mail list. It ends up being difficult to have sort of subsets of maintainers that get pinged for things that doesn't, that can lead to some divisiveness in the communities. So that was my recollection of how we resolved that was that we weren't going to create special contact lists. Yeah. And I guess then similar to that, right? Use that mailing list to request documentation. Correct. You might also think for that resource library, instead of trying to consolidate all the documentation and maintain links that might change if there's a way that you can provide instead some. Guidance for consistency amongst the project. So if you just go to the wiki page for the project, you can consistently find the documentation. That way it should just be, if people are looking for documentation on a project, they go to the project instead of winning their way into a library and then back out to the project. Again, this library also is for more people who are trying to just get involved in the community and don't really know what they're looking for so they can see the projects and see the documentation that's available for each one. You know, instead of having to go to each individual wiki page for the documentation, that's kind of the idea. I'm not sure if that's a good idea, but that was the idea. Anything else on this? Anybody? There's clearly a lot of work going on, so I appreciate all the effort that you're putting into that. One thing for me actually, we've just put up a GitHub IO page for Burrow, using like a dynamic page generator thing. Would it be better for that to be hosted on the main project page on Hyperledia, which is a little sparse at the moment. Currently we're just linking to this doc site on GitHub pages, but I'm not sure what the most consistent thing to do would be. That's the one. That would be the link that we would put in the resource library. So there'd be a link to all the GitHub repositories for each one of the projects. This isn't the GitHub repository, this is GitHub pages being used for hosting. Yeah, but Bobby's referring to this effort there starting is to try to collect all the pointers to the different documentations of the different projects and information about the projects. So that would fall into that. But I'd like to do your question though. I mean, I think, and I, you know, I was in the marketing meeting yesterday on the marketing call, and there were questions about the websites and I think there's still work that needs to be done from a Hyperledia point of view, in terms of how we organize all the different pages, different projects. And, you know, there's still a couple of projects that have top level domains that are a bit at odd with everything, how everything else is done. And so I think there is a bit of cleanup effort going on. Hopefully things will settle down. And, you know, I think if Gary was here, he would say something about the fact that it also touches on the fact that there isn't the one way we do projects within Hyperledia and maybe it's detrimental to the project overall and something that TSE could try to improve is giving some guidance and maybe, you know, how strongly we want to word that, I don't know. But, you know, whether we enforce that or not is there a template model on how you're supposed to run a project, where your documentation is, how you do your CI, et cetera, et cetera. But, you know, it's clear that there is a lot of diversity today on that front for better and for worse. So that is a project that David Hughesby and I are working on right now. The answers to those, what are the potential answers to those questions? So it is top of mind for the community architect team. One of the, you know, side effects of this part of this comes out of the CI CD task force that we had for a while. And part of this is driven by the fabric family of projects moving out of Garrett and Jenkins into GitHub and question marks. So, you know, we're kind of trying to take advantage of this flux to hopefully in the next few weeks be able to come back with some answers or some options as to like where should the docs go? Where should this, that and the other? So we're working on some of the mechanical stuff. Hopefully we all have something to tell you about that in a little while. All right, that's great. Thank you. Okay. So back to the reports. I do want to point out, I didn't see a report from Ursa, which I think is due. And for that matter, I haven't seen the Q2 report from Ursa either, which I would expect. But I was wondering if anybody is on the hook there to actually produce a report sooner rather than later. I want the hook and I'll get it next week. All right. Excellent. Thank you. Okay. So that's the end of the formal agenda. I don't know if there's anything else anybody wants to bring up. Meek, if I can put you on the spot, how are we doing on the working group? Task Force. Are you on mute? You're on mute. Maybe. Sorry. I think we've got a couple of the proposals written up. The first one seems to be kind of at this point universally accepted. But Hart and I need to sit down and figure out what's the next round. Okay. But so are you planning to bring something to the TSE? Soon? I don't know what soon means, but possibly. I'm just trying to get a sense of, you know, I was hoping you'd be able to do a bit like we did for the life cycle task force where we didn't, we tried to break it down to some smaller issues and we were able to bring those up to the TSE and make progress that way more. Yeah. And I think we do, but I think there's a, the problem is, is that this is spaghetti. The sort of interdependencies are pretty substantial. So having some sense of what, how all the pieces went together. I mean, the, the short of it is, um, I think where the consensus is for those who have made the comments back is that, um, working groups should go away. We should have task forces and SIGs and leave it at that. Okay. All right. Thank you. That's good enough. And since I put me on the spot, I should follow my own sort regarding the sub projects issue related to the life cycle task force. That's the last issue, but it's admit, you know, admittedly, I think it's the hardest one to tackle. And I have not made progress. As you can imagine life has taken some direction that has kept me busy. And, um, so I just didn't have any chance to focus on that. So hopefully I will sooner rather than later. Regarding the backlog, as I mentioned earlier, we have a whole bunch of issues that have been raised there. And I have been, I'm happy to see that there's this ongoing discussions on several of those items. I just want to encourage people to keep discussing this. Hopefully we'll get a sense that, you know, the discussion kind of converges enough at some point that we can bring this to the TSE again, following the same principle of trying to take those peace deal right one at a time and make progress that way. So unless there's anybody else who has anything else, I'm happy to close with a few minutes to spare. I don't know. Sorry, this is Angela. Maybe I just to just to check because maybe I missed it. So we are not going to vote today for the expansion of the program committee size, the technical committee size. That's correct because there are discussions. So this refers to the backlog that's in front of you right now for everybody called TSE size because I think, you know, and Chris brought that up to be clear before the election and the election results, right? So I don't want people to get the idea that this is in reaction to the results that, you know, some might find unpleasant or not to their liking, but there are discussions about how we should extend it, right? And in particular, do we just do a numerical extension and take the next people on the list like I had suggested, or do we try to be more subtle to ensure that we have greater diversity by hand picking some people or there are different possibilities. And so at this point I don't feel like there is a clear, you know, consensus on a specific proposal that makes sense to bring to the TSE for final vote. So I just want to encourage people to participate in the discussion and then hopefully we can converge very quickly. So that maybe next week or the following one or so, we can agree on something. And to be clear, anyone can participate in these calls in the online discussions.  Yeah, that's a good point, you know, and I will add that to what I just said before, but the results, you know, people get hang up on the result and whether there's enough diversity and all. I don't know what it's like not to be a member because I've been a member officially since the first election, but, you know, I think we've been quite inclusive and I've never heard anybody being shut off. And so at the end of the day, the votes, if you look at the history of the TSE votes for better and for worse, they are quite similar in nature. It's like for the most part unanimous consent. And I don't know that they make much of a difference per se as much as the discussion that goes on in which, as Mark says, you know, anybody can participate in. So, all right. All right. So thank you all for participating and we'll talk to you soon. Meeting is adjourned.