If you are a Zoom participant, please sign in with your name on the participant toolbar. This is a hybrid meeting to take place at the town hall on virtually on Zoom. All members of the board public can communicate at their time. Planning staff will provide Zoom instructions for public participation before we begin. All those taken in the meeting will be down by a little call of vote, and of course with a lot. If Zoom crashes, the meeting will be continued to November 22nd, 2022. Let's start the meeting by taking a little call of attendance of DRB members participating tonight. Present. All, can you acknowledge that you're participating, please? Can you hear me now? How about now? Okay. Dave Turner is absent. I'm present, so we have five DRB members who do have a floor. Next up on the agenda is the public floor. So if you're here present in the room, raise your hand. Okay, now we go into the public hearing portion tonight. We have a number of items on the agenda. 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We have a number of items on the agenda. We have a number of items on the agenda. We have a number of items on the agenda. I have one last question while we are here. There is a lot of ledge up there directly across from my house. I do see some of that in there. Is there any plans for blasting for this new house that is going in? I am looking at the driveway in a way that always ends over there. Staff, in the event that this is more out of curiosity, in the event that there was blasting required, what do the regulations do in terms of calling for surveys of existing structures for documenting any damage that might occur with adjacent properties due to blasting? How does that work? Nothing in the Willisons Bylaw. No, so while Emily is right, there is nothing in Willisons Bylaw specifically requiring things like pre-blast surveys. Those are standard practice for any blasting company and are experienced with other developments and that blasting is required. Blasting company handles not only any blasting that is happening, but also performing pre-blast surveys and post-blast monitoring in the area that Scott might get back to. The takeaway, if I were a neighbor, is that if there is blasting that is required due to you only know what you know based on PO-Tech. I would pay attention to make sure that the pre-blast surveys are actually taking place. Okay. Thank you. Any other questions? Okay, hearing none, any last thoughts by the applicant? Okay. I'm going to close DP 23-03 at 727. Thank you. All right, next up. DP 23-04, this way is for a two-laws subdivision to create a new boiling unit as Pico-7 North, Willison Road, who is here for the applicant. Frank, Eric, and Louie Burke. Louie Burke. Welcome. So this is another question, a new definition of the two-laws subdivision describing the residential building. The proposal seeks to facilitate the process of the Pico-7 North, Willison Road to accommodate the residential structure of the Pico-7 North and Willison Road. So the special system is a family line adjustment to ensure that the Pico-7 North is done in a different way. Also, I'm going to open up to the staff who are currently in the Pico-7 North to decorate and improve the application of the Pico-7 North and Willison Road. Do you normally see any of these in the Pico-7 North and Willison Road? So it's going to be a natural standard. You probably see the two options and I don't know if the options are ready. Okay, left there, and then the options for the Pico-7 North right here. Both options are going to retain six-by-seven miles per mile and which will give you a new potential for the Pico-7 North. And so there's about 55 Pico-7 North. In terms of compliance with the dimensional standards, six-by-seven is going to anticipate the new dimensional standards which will try to meet the last size of one of them and also meet the standard. Six-by-seven, that's where the new law will be reviewed. It's also anticipated to meet the dimensional requirements. It can meet the last size that it has to come to the Pico-7 Drive and subject to a resolve in the line of transparency on the option 1A to meet the standards. The appropriate recommendation is to correct that line of transparency on the way of step-by-step. The last element is the non-adjustable laptops and dimensional standards. As you can see, there are two options. Option 1A, thank you for the access for another last step of the change of the weathering in the cars. Move the line to the next shade and this area is right by the way now to move on to 55 Pico-7 North. I'd like to say 10 foot side step back with the option 2. Similar, again, it moves a lot along the shade and the driveway along the line of transparency but it also moves that property's driveway onto the same block. You may not want to a slightly larger shade of art but it's probably a more comfortable solution to my finger. The only thing we'd say about that is that option and you've included a recommendation to that step is that the lot line should be free just to make sure that the minor inversion into the side to have to set that up. Okay, so before you go on do you have any issue with that if we were to proceed and approve with 1B that caveat this time and just mentioned, do you have any issue with that? Yeah, I do. Okay, thank you. I'm not even sure what that is but I have another concern. If we're being asked to review two different applications here and I'd like to know which one we're reviewing. Alright. It's the recommendation statement and I'm just particularly encouraged to do the same different options. It's that I think the option 1B is better. I'm doing the option 1B is better as well. Thank you. Yeah, it's just very different. And my understanding is if I could be a simpleton, 1B just puts the driveway on. It eliminates the need for a right way. That's fair. Correct. Yeah, we submitted 1A first and then 1B afterwards since it was pre-app, we were up patient. Yeah. Alright. That's it. There's a strong preference from the app. It creates a flat line with the existing line. Yeah. And I guess then I would ask them I don't understand what the minor adjustment would be. I'm pretty often seen that and I know this area has been very good. I just wanted to agree is we're doing a slight setback and the driveway is going across the setback of the right angles so it's going to be quick and slightly to move it out of the slide. So that boundary line which is south to north we just have to be moved a little to the east so that the existing driveway setback is compliant. That's it, right? It's going to be a lot size so we're going to have to move it back. You got to play with the lot size to be compliant with the setback and still meet the minimum lot size. So we're going to get the line to the chest and we're going to get that setback. That makes sense, John? It does. I just think it's important to meet the bottom line. Right. So being comfortable on you to do that should this advance? Absolutely. I'm sorry Simon, you were talking about a recommendation that may need to be discussed for management. They are eligible for this. They've also already been granted the ADU is still on the construction understand which is to do the recommendation that they do for the final plans. I think that was everything I know recommendations and directions. Okay, have you read the proposed motion? Yeah. And do you have any concerns? I do not. Okay. DRV members, any further questions? Yeah. One question. If you were to take a lot line that creates the driveway as a if you were to take that one, the one on the left if you were to just change that instead of it cutting straight across you basically made it turn where it just paralleled the driveway down wouldn't that give you more land in that proposed lot too than your secondary choice where you basically cut off the rest of the backyard or two? You see what I'm saying? So it would be a bigger lot but then you'd have to have a right away in the deed. No, no. What I'm saying is instead of cutting the first one on the left instead of cutting it all the way across if they just made a right hand turn when they got to the driveway and went out the driveway would still belong to the lot in the back and lot two would actually have more land than the secondary proposal where he basically sort of runs that he cuts the backyard of two off. I don't have any idea what you're talking about. This is a couple very qualified engineers representing the client and there are probably issues that we're not really aware of and I would assume that the next time you see this the lot size would be the right size the setbacks would be proper we'll take a go at that. Okay. Just ask the question. Never mind. Thank you. Any questions? Yes. This is Judy Geisler. I'm a resident at 98 Keystone Drive. My concern is after the new dwelling was put in at 55 Keystone Drive I would have expected the boundaries to be adjusted evaluated before the structure at 55 Keystone went in. Why is it happening now? In answer to that the what you're saying is the new dwelling is what's called an accessory dwelling unit so that means it's accessory to the main dwelling at six or seven. It's like a great apartment or an indoor apartment something that is subsidiary to the main of the back. If you turn it to the back they don't need to have their own blocks. But what I'm now saying is they don't have that they have to have their own blocks they don't need to have a separate standalone home which is why it's been done in this order that becomes its own dwelling at its own block. So they're not anticipating further construction on the new block that's being developed? There's no there's no I don't believe there's any representation as to future intent. So there's in other words they're silent on their plan for for future development on that lot and they don't have to disclose any development plans for the newly created lot at this stage. Is the newly created lot large enough to to be able to accept another dwelling? Yeah, yes it is. Being that Keystone Drive is a private road the dwellings of North Williston Road that access Keystone Drive there is no contribution to the road maintenance at this point. Maybe that's something that we have to discuss with the short sleeves. Yeah, that would be something outside of the purview of the DRB in New York. You are correct. Okay, thank you. Any other public comment? Okay, DRB members any last questions? Applicant any final words? No, okay. Thank you. I'm going to close DPP 3-04 at 742. Thank you. All right, next up is DPP 23-05 who is here representing the applicant. Thank you very much. You're going to have to move tonight, huh? All right, welcome Brian. Please help us. Emily, thank you. First application for the 25,000 square foot building with the associated parking facility and the buildings will have a shared office where house buildings supply retail. The property is currently undeveloped. It is located in the DPP. The lot size is separate acres that need to be tested for new clothes and improve the application. The DRB should discuss the landscape offer, particularly where it collects residential property and also the potential first sign that along the way. This is plot 5 which was created in 2018 as part of our very self-review. After we saw such a concentration of market-sort planifiers for review of the public works and fires that are currently on the application. No comment letters were received at the time of the mail-out. Most uses are most likely to require a draft and dark sketch plan. These will be more detailed provided at the discretionary permit or even at the future administrative permit as long as they comply with the uses of the industrial zoning district. Some limited office uses are allowed. Compliance is anticipated with setbacks and building links. However, the discretionary permit is verified. Lot size is now approved. The lot 5 subdivision is not flat. So this parcel has 7 set of acres and the driveway has a 3 foot wide driveway. The applicants in the middle shows that the driveway which shows the parcel has 6 to 9 acres and the driveway is easily over the abutting property. The abutting property is lot 6. So this will need to be clarified at the discretionary permit. Outdoor sales and storage are allowed in this district. It must be shown at the discretionary permit. We are recommending standard recommendations related to access to traffic studies. So we are not recommending traffic studies. One was adopted as part of the program subdivision that estimated 39 traffic hours trip for this parcel. In general, any commercial industrial uses can be done with very many trips. But the property will be required to extend the use path along Sunlight Road from where it ends today at the 19 Sunlight Road to their property line about 60 feet. Part of the discretionary permit must include the regular vehicle parking and the parking vehicle to be considered part of their outdoor storage. So this parking is needed for employees and customers. End of the trip facilities will be required to be shown at discretionary permit. This chapter 14 also has standards for discretionary preparation and the discretionary permit must show that discretionary has safe access from the parking spaces to buildings and storage rooms. The sidewalks should be provided around the parking area. On-site infrastructure, here's where some VRV discretion is required related to sidewalks. Typically sidewalks are required to be seen through. However, this is a private driveway and WVV 14.7 does state that discretionary installation to include option parking areas to facilitate safe access through the road. So the VRV and actress discuss if there's potential for a sidewalk along the private driveway. So employees or customers can have pedestrian access along the driveway. There will be about 600 150 from Shunpaikwa to those parking spaces for the building. Made us the discretionary permit but it must show storage all the ways and how it reduces hazard increases. So this application would need to demonstrate that particularly if there's going to be anything like hazard materials like air quality, noise or vibration that it properly being mitigated. Landscaping specific recommendations included here particularly requiring a type 3 buffer of a type 3 buffer and defense all of the property with this is residential property. It is located in the industrial zone where residential is not being used. However, it's currently occupied as a whole. The driveway with is also very important here if it's 60 as shown in the roadway that's enough space to provide the driveway and required buffers. As well as there's an opportunity to shift the driveway as far west as possible by storing and maximize the buffer space alongside the residential and the RDS flexibility around giving up a reduction if a fence is provided so they could reduce the amount of that 23th buffer in the second quarter. So typically the buffer width for a type 3 buffer is 23 and there's a reduction allowed if they provide a fence they can reduce that 25% 25% of 23 75. Okay, instead of 27 that's that. No, my apologies, sorry. Okay. And street trees. I think the street trees are required for the street. So there's maybe one or two street trees for the driveway. The place is also located with water and there's some wetland buffer on the property that will need to be eliminated from the fence and will also be required to provide a reduction in that cost. Similarly, there's standard recommendations for outdoor lighting, signs of public art and impact fees. Those can be addressed at discretionary permit and impact fees are assessed at community level. Thank you. I have a question from the staff that staff has made. I might be missing it but I don't see anything about a sidewalk along the flagpole the access road. Am I missing it? You are not missing it. Is that something that the PR even like Yeah, okay, great. Okay, what's a sidewalk along the road? We'd be okay tabling the discussion at discretionary but we're a little more clear about the uses we're proposing. It turns out to be primarily a warehouse a lot of employees very low traffic production. You know, I think a sidewalk especially at 600 feet will be at an added expense that I don't think will be used but it also won't have the benefit of it. Now if it turns into more of an office use there are a lot of employees obviously we're not showing parking right now. Maybe it doesn't make some sense to include a few trees on the sidewalk. I think the access road will have been put from the fire department to be at least 24 to 25 foot wide. It's a very straight driveway so the line of sight is not an issue. We have a sidewalk, we have to have a green bell limiting how far we can shift the driveway away from the top. At this point in time we're okay tabling that especially until you're more clear we're more clear on the use of the building. We rather not see it a conditional approval. I don't think it has any bearing on what the use of the building is going to be. The secondary use or the second use down the road is going to be an office space and then the sidewalk is not there. That was right where I was going to go is we don't know what who's going to occupy it. Number 2, 3, 4. So that will limit what could go in the future. Fair enough. You look at it in a slightly different way the cost benefit I think should take into account not necessarily the financial aspect but the fact that are we in a 5 foot sidewalk for 600 feet is how many feet of impervious area and we're working very hard to not pave our town and we've got a very low usage there I would suggest it's possible it does not work well. So we'll have that discussion in the delivery session. So that's a point well taken. Okay it is a big stamp though I would add that part. But if you say it's hard to say it might be working over 30 years. So we'll have that discussion. May I suggest the flexibility if the board was leading toward a sidewalk and moving considerably instead or maybe a white stripe down the drive associated pavement sidewalk separate for suggestion so that okay so questions I guess my only this is not so much a comment or it's a comment not so much a question and that is that it appears that you're maximizing the site for the buildings for the buildings on what you can squeeze in there and again this is a comment only that it doesn't leave much room for expansion of parking and you've got barely enough returning radiuses it's going to be a tight site. That's comment nothing more. Other members questions, comments? I would make a comment that I'd like to make sure that we see maximum attention to the public next to the public and to the fence and that will survive the test right so I think it would be a very good thing to look at that and I believe the fence is that a waiver or a decision that the DRB has to act to see something that the DRB would support for reduction of the buffer can you say that a different way I didn't quite follow that as a condition that the board would put something or finding that they would support the fence to reduce the landscaping buffer property I believe that something specific that the board has to act. Got it, thank you. Because there's standards, I don't think the DRB needs to weigh in on that you can then make a decision and in your discretionary permit how you want to draw that I was only commenting on my expectation and this is not going to make it into a recommendation but a conversation with the neighbor would probably be a good thing to do is that a neighbor here? I don't think so but I would recommend that you set up a discussion and get some feedback on preferences maybe hyper-preventing material things like that just being a good reach out public any feedback or comments? DRB members any last questions for Brian? Just one proposed height of the building? We don't have elevations yet minimum less than a lot of but okay anything else? Brian? Okay 758 we're going to close EP23-05 thank you okay next up is EP23-0062 EP23-0062 this is a request for an administrative permit for continued operation for a non-profit dog rescue panel within the garage and outdoor panel space in the backyard located at 170 Lamplight Lane in the RZD who is here representing the homeowner? Good evening if you would state your name and I assume you're the resident? Okay so just your name please Good evening welcome who's Matt look at this okay so before you start if you would please share with the DRB members and also the public what the DRB's responsibility on this discussion are? Sure so for my state law limits the powers of zoning in the area of home business and generally states that municipalities within Vermont that have zoning have the effect of prohibiting a reasonable home business Williston in response to that has adopted Chapter 20 and Appendix B in the Regina Fife file as setting out limits and standards for permitting of home businesses these limits have to do with some of the impacts that home business might generate on their surroundings they say very little about the nature of the business for profit or otherwise or what the business does but are rather focused on the impacts the business creates so I'm not sure if I'm covering everything you want here but generally we're dealing with an element of zoning where the standards are very much related to the integration of business into a residential neighborhood in the state law okay good so with the DRP and I'll let Matt continue and I know there's a lot of interest in this discussion tonight and and people are going to have an opportunity to weigh in the DRP is part of our fundamental rule is protecting people's property owners' rights in this case we have multiple property owners you have existing residents who who have rights wide enjoyment of their property and then you have an existing homeowner that has rights to have a home business within some rules and so our rule is not to judge the merits of the business I'm going to ask that people don't talk about their experience with getting a dog and how it changed their life and that type of thing it's not germane to tonight's discussion what is germane is rights within the rules that the DRP has to rule on and so within that context I ask people when they weigh in with their thoughts if they keep their comments to property rights and if anybody has any question on what I mean by that when we get to the public forum piece we can have some more discussion about that but with that I'll turn it over to your staff report as he was called the beginning of the agenda item this is a request for a permit for the continued operation of a home business that 170 land flight planes to the residential zoning district this is a referral of an administrative permit application by the zoning administrator to the DRP for discretionary permits because this is a rather uncommon way to go over that as it's discussed in the staff report within the rules that the Williston Unified Development Biola has for home businesses there is contained a provision that allows the administrator to refer a permit application for a home business to the DRP where the administrator believes the DRP needs to approve an exception from the traffic generation standards that are contained within Chapter 20 in Appendix per generation is something the DRP sees frequently when new businesses are proposed we're often talking about something big like a grocery store that might generate 80 trips during the evening or something like that in the case of a home business will limit for administrative approval depending on zoning district 1 or 2 PM peak hour trips and I read the Biola here is looking at vehicle trips as a proxy for the intensity of use that's happening as a result of the home business and so most home businesses and we probably approve a dozen or ten or so here are handled administratively in our office many of them are home office type uses or some sort of contractor who uses their home as the administrative center of their business but performs a lot of the work off site etc or your typical massage therapist, piano teacher etc who has no employees and maybe has no money or parish where the work is visiting the home office so in this case the description we received this process we began as a complaint and a notice of zoning violation by me to the homeowner saying we think that what's happening here is the home business requires a permit we then worked with the homeowner and the administrative permit and determined from there that what was being requested was likely to generate more vehicle trips in that peak hour that could be permitted to administrate so why is this in front of the DRV this is in front of the DRV because it's likely in any permissible form to be generating a few more vehicle trips than the one for the peak hour that we approved and as I said the way the bylaw is looking at vehicle trips here it's not a number of trips but it's really about the intensity of the activity of the business and the rest of the staff report I'll go through talks about the different ways the home business checklist and the 20 in chapter 18 are related to usage and there will be impacts a home business might have on the property so as I said I'll just go through the basics we're on a 0.46 acre plot the residential zoning is the primary use of the lot is residential there is a home enterprise or home business that can be taken place today so I'm not calling it a change of use but this would be the first request for that use to be permitted there is no design review or conservation commission review of the advisory for this project I've mentioned the relevant chapters 20 residential improvements 20 residential improvements there may be some discussion about the lighting and the kind of power so tonight's recommended action is for the ERB and take testimony I wrote this fairly wide open as take testimony and continue deliver tonight possibly a future meeting and decision order I made some notes this is really up to the board if you feel you have enough information close tonight that's fine if you feel that after deliberating you've got enough information to make either a denial or a condition to approval that's fine too but I didn't want the board to feel like I was presupposing your actions on something that might never seem to give you any discussion this is the first time the ERB is reviewing this request and I have provided a history on the top of the section page about the zoning violation of the home business permit request and the referral as well as the lack of in this case a need for interdepartmental or community commission public comment we have received 68 comment letters on November 3rd we have received 5 additional letters after that we have uploaded the letters to the public sorry to interrupt those are all part of the public yes they are we've added anything to the record and so that means those have been on the website and the other members have had those to review as well prior to this year I just wanted to note under discretionary permit procedures we have received several comment letters from folks who were not residents that's okay all persons are free to offer or risk testimony but there are some rules and state law about who could appeal the ERB decision the one reason that people participation in ERB hearing is to gain what's called party status meaning the right to participate in the proceedings should they receive beyond the ERB into an appeal to the state environmental court the party to something means that you participated but you need to both participate and also be able to show some connection to what's happening but pointed that language in the staff report about interested parties and as was discussed by the chair earlier in our by-laws we'll talk about hearing procedures for spoken testimony to focus on statements that are to address the merits of post-development clients for failure to comply with specific requirements of the by-law and that said I'll talk through some of the requirements of by-law as they relate to business so chapter 20 of the Willis-Ban Unified Development By-law is a chapter about residential accessory uses and structures and it contains the provisions related to home business and direct response to 24PSA 4412 or requiring that so-and-by-laws allow for some reasonable use of a portion of the home for a home business so the first part is what is a home business any commercial activity whether for profit or not conducted at one or two persons welling by the resident of that welling so that's a one or two household one right one or two household welling sorry so we have the homeowner conducting the business in the home which is a one or two household welling the business as described applies with that we have a rule in chapter 20 about a commercial vehicle being parked at the home the overnight parking of a commercial vehicle of 10,000 pounds per vehicle weight or is a commercial activity would be regulated as such in the residential area we don't see a proposal here for a vehicle of that size comment letters we received did mention a van that appears to be a passenger midi van looking up a typical gross vehicle weight to get to 10,000 pounds per van you're looking at a relatively well equipped standard 15 passenger work van so that's about where that threshold is so staff believes that the proposal applies under 20.4.2 of commercial vehicles is a permit required to establish a home business yes that's part of why we're here tonight and again I mentioned the traffic threshold is a second bullet under 20.4.3 discretionary permission is required for all home businesses to have more than one non-resident employee on site or generate more than one PMP hour trip so we understand from the description there's more than one person who visits the site per day all here and it's likely that was generating more than one PMP hour trip that's why I've referred this to be our leave for discretionary permit review and have not approved it in the description so then what standards apply to home business and the bylaw of the first two appendix B will take us through the requirements of the appendix B it's worth noting that panels in particular are mentioned in Chapter 20 as it relates to the product of the home business again based on the permit is required for a chemical use reporting reading can be permitted for all home business standards for kennels again the administrative permit should be shall be approved where the administrator finds compliance with the standards of WDB 20.2 for accessory structures and 20.8 defenses what that means is a kennel is like a shed it's an accessory structure it's required to meet the requirements of the bylaw which is typically setbacks 15 feet from where 15 feet from the side and either 25 or 15 feet from the front of our line depending on the site so those requirements would apply here it's worth noting that the kennels shown in the application are under 10 feet height to 100 home square feet size each that exempts them from the general requirement for an accessory structure to have the administrative permit but even structures that are exempt from the requirements are setback that's something that the DOP possibly discussed in terms of additional site planning or information they might require should they be considering an approval of the project moving on to the next stage of the draft report to discuss the requirements and the needs of the bylaw and some of this is a restate of what's in 2020 but it does happen also through time the owner of the home business must be a residence we understand that how much space can be used for a home business in the residential zoning district 25% of the floor area of the dwelling 500 square feet that was smaller we understand the finished floor area of the dwelling questions would be 1,900 square feet 25% of that we understand that the applicant has provided a floor plan showing indoor area in the garage of the dwelling that's in use for the business of 14 and a half by 20 feet which is 290 square feet we've added two kennels in the backyard we come up with 470 square feet just under that 425 square feet is the 1,900 square feet include the garage it's the calculated finished area of the house so the garage is like quite basement it would be like a a I don't know a secondary secondary structure really in the way this would be treated the same way so we're basing it on a percentage of what's thought of as the home that's in question okay got it can a home business have workspaces or store materials outdoors in the RZD where we are the space used for proposal and business shall be within the dwelling or in an accessory structure with all the requirements by law outdoor workspaces and outdoor storage of material supplies put into vehicles for goods for sale are prohibited in the RZD as well as the next use residential in the RZD so you'll know me and my staff knows I know this as a decision from the DRVD I've been working there to make a testimony on this question I cannot have outdoor workspaces storage and use accessory structure so we have a use here that has kennels in the back yard I might agree that to say that the kennels are accessory structures 20.9 because they're used as part of the home business and what part I could involve is however the yard around the kennels does not use outdoor workspaces DRVD should discuss what that means to staff in the context of a dog rescue or dog holding training operation I'm afraid that it cannot be used as an outdoor workspace related must a home business require parking yes our appendix G does require off-street parking at a rate determined by the administrator or the DRVD where more than one additional parking space is required the administrator or DRVD may require that off-street parking for a home business meet the location side of your yard and landscaping requirements that apply in a commercial or industrial or any district so typically when we have non-residential parking it may be subject to a setback for landscaping off-streeting requirements again you know that this is a matter of DRVD we need to make a decision on particularly considering approval number one to determine based on the intensity of use what is the appropriate amount of off-street parking required here the existing driveway the sites are relatively small my estimate is that it accommodates maximum two vehicles on the north side of the front yard setback there does appear to be some physical space on the north side of the driveway where additional parking could be designated and it would really be related to the ability of the home business to capture the parking demand from those small theaters during the day and I'm sure the DRVD is trying to significant amount of testimony in preparation for this area about parking demand as generated by the use we can talk a little bit more about that in a minute are there restrictions on potential nuisances generated by home business yes there are this is where chapter 18 of your bylaw comes into place and in particular we're discussing F of that section which is related to noise certainly parking dogs can happen in a way that exceeds the noise limits particularly if dogs are outdoors during the evening hours where the town's noise ordinance blocks the threshold and talk about that a little bit further down in the staff report number 7 is about the ability for a home business to have a sign a home business can have a sign there is no sign for post year but that a restatement in number 8 of the commercial vehicle size limit and we do anticipate that people using the association of this business would comply with the standards of the county lastly the discussion of restrictions on traffic generation I'm sorry I said number 5 why I restated the requirements there about traffic generation so I think that's part of why this is in front of the ERB and noting that we received a significant comment about traffic generation and in particular traffic and parking generation in relation to how this property is situated it is at the top of a key intersection the major action of the house is located so anybody coming into the neighborhood from the street has to make sure that I get to drive and that intersection of the house is on I have only been out there when there wasn't anybody street parking and imagine parking to get through there the second discussion of traffic impact gets into a particular activity that has been occurring at this business and I'm referring to what are called transport days these are places where a significant number of animals are brought to the site and that and the dog to buy families all in the same day that is a comment about these events where a fairly significant number of folks are brought to the neighborhood in the space of a short amount of time and there's really significant street parking happening throughout the neighborhood and a lot of that could have been happening I've identified that as a component of the business that I do not believe can be permitted as an ongoing zoning permission for a home business here's to see some of the metrics that either chapter point sets out for home businesses and that said numbers one and two in this section I've discussed two ways in which that component might still fit one is the town does have a temporary permit standard through ordinance this is specifically drafted for things that cannot be permitted in zoning it's a one-off permit and it's limited in how many of them can be issued in a year and it's entirely discretionary between this would be the same permit for somebody to get if they want to have a water party or post a wedding on their rural property during the summer etc outside of zoning the other option by number one is for that particular activity the power box site I began some of my discussion tonight I was talking about some in fact pretty significant number of home businesses we see some of these doing some of the business at their home generally office work in this case ranging from the transport dogs ranging from their adoption etc etc they're doing that work at home but in that more intense activity is the power box site for somebody who prepares cabinets for installation in my house for a while but really the big work is they're going to take them out of the stall so so it's I believe not possible for those more intense things to be permitted as part of zoning however there may be a way to drop site that would not require home business talking about chapter 18 the nuisance chapter I want to remind folks that noise is referenced in our nuisance chapter but it actually exists in separate town boardments that means the noise complaints are not regulated through the zoning violation process they are regulated through the lease complaint ordinance enforcement process that said our my watch chapter 18 references noise because it's something for the DRB to think about when it's considering permit for any activity reviewing so discussing noise limits residential daytime limit property malignments from that to that level that tonight 50 noting that just internet research a dog bark range from 70 to 90 decibels that's noted right at the dog the back yard is relatively small here so it is possible that dogs barking in the back yard and those outdoor kennels could exceed the noise limit the DRB for the ordinance where the decibels measured so for instance if you were an adjacent property they're measured at a property line so and the DRB could request additional information or sound study related the DRB can also require in the waste mitigation measures this can take the shape of sound proofing techniques or physical barriers although those can be quite expensive and difficult to install more likely the DRB can also limit operating hours in other words the application here conditions for requirement of the applicants to get an area that they can do about their operation and when dogs would be in those outdoor kennels when they would be inside building where inside something that is less permeable last is a discussion of mixing properties we don't have that and it's very good to get on the final page before we get to the final conclusions outdoor lighting we do have some limitations on outdoor lighting and we just wanted to recite them here so the presidential hall is limited to up to no more than 5,500 lumens per unit and the lumens are less per lamp but lights greater than 1200 lumens must be not higher than 45 degrees 1200 lumens is how much you get out of a second 5,500 5,500 so lastly we prepared some refinance of that conclusions of why and conditions of removal for the DRB these would be findings, conclusions and conditions the DRB might work off of if they were considering some sort of condition of removal of this project if the DRB deliberated tonight and wanted to direct staff to prepare the denial staff would ask for a little more time to work through that it's a thing doing frequently and it's a little bit of a different set of 5 conclusions come up with lastly as I mentioned at the beginning this is a referral and administrative permit making it through the discretionary permit process which is what our home business director says and can be done and should be done in this case following that process perfectly acceptable for the DRB to ask for something like final plans like this that you prior to removal those could take place a more refined set of drawings what's physically happening on the property and or possibly more importantly a marriage from the applicant about how the business will operate with the point of impact that home business provisions are created to deal with so that is an option open to the DRB if you were considering drafting conditions of approval to say we would approve this but we need these items that the approval would be based on so I'm going to leave it at that and we have a lot of testimonies and happy to take questions to share as they are allowed to point to the DRB for me to try it right thank you Matt before we proceed Matt can you explain what has taken place since the zoning violation I'm going to call it mid-September to where we sit today in early November relative to temporary event applications for these transport days yes so following the issuance of the zoning violation applicant asked to come in and speak with her to discuss the requirement for permit application she did say to me I have one of these transport days already arranged what should I do I want to do whatever would be required but I know the time it won't get through the DRB process and time and I did encourage Matt to reach out to the town manager's office and discuss temporary the applicant did file a temporary event permit for that transport day I do understand also that since then the applicant's been in discussions with the manager's office about an additional transport day but has found an off-site location and commercial stuff reported that way so the temporary event that took place took place in the neighborhood it did there's been some discussions about transport days happening off-site thank you okay Donna the floor is yours to provide any additional clarity from the staff report and this may be an open dialogue with the DRB and all of our members who will will have the opportunity to ask questions and as we gain a better understanding of your operation and as it stands today so why don't you start so I purchased the property in a giant family when I purchased the property I was operating the non-profit dog rescue since 1998 it was one of my first questions for the realtor who went to the town to find out is there going to be an issue with this it was a product that I could potentially apply for home business permit but didn't really need it so because I was told I didn't really need it I went on doing what I was doing not in a small arrogant I want to piss off the neighborhood but I didn't think I was doing anything wrong so I continued doing what I was doing at some point one of the neighbors started making it very clear that she was unhappy and I went to Matt and said I don't want to be in violation of anything that's not who I am it's not what I do it's something that I need to be in compliance with and Matt and I talked and essentially that conversation was identical you can apply for a home business permit but this doesn't really fit it I'm not sure that you really need it this is how that process works so if you want to do it you can but you don't have to and I thought about it and honestly I'm thinking myself now that I didn't do that thing that I didn't have to do because it might have made my life easier I didn't do the permit I thought that I could still move in any acceptable boundaries of what I was doing certainly not a business, at least doing anything with harm and so then boom, I got the letter and the mail from Matt and that started the process of conversations with him about what's going on why things change what do I need to do that then led to I think two complaint letters which has exploded as you all know because you've seen them I stopped reading them because they were so upset so a piece of this there's no one can fix what they don't know is wrong if someone doesn't come to you and say hey can we have a chat about the car in front of my yard or that van that comes in once a month or whatever it is I cannot possibly fix that if I don't know about it so this is quite literally it gone from one person who is a total annoyance that we sort of ignore to who ironically isn't even here tonight to an explosion of neighbors some of whom have adopted from us and this has been brewing in the background and I visit them at the end of my driveway every other day and no one says a thing to me about hey this is bothering me a little bit and we talk about how to fix it so I am literally blindsided as all of my volunteers are by how this has has blown up um I'm not a person to do things I'm trying to break some wrongs and do a good thing in the world and do it in a private way in a private person I don't go visit my neighbors and chit chat with them and have drinks and discuss my life if there's something that I'm doing that's interfering with you come and tell me because I have been accused of we didn't talk to us if I didn't know there was an issue why would I go to your house and talk to you about so the transport day that Matt mentioned that happened very close to all of this again I called Matt because these are things I don't know and then we've got this transport already scheduled it's paid for it's booked these dogs are out of need out of medical on this day what am I going to do with well it was way too short of time trying to start looking for another site and so my suggestion was I've got a fully dense backyard if the traffic on the road is concerned then we'll take our volunteer cars and we'll put them in the backyard next to my camper that frees up in front of my house for parking we will make it just incredibly clear with the doctors that they have the time to show up and if they show up early they forfeit your time and go away so we have no more than three adopters at any time and the time frame that we set was between 10 and 3 so one hour appointments between 10 and 3 we pulled the van and this is not a big commercial van this is I don't know what we call it it's like a high top passenger van we pulled it into the backyard to get it out of everybody's view because it seems to bother everyone so put it in the backyard close to gate it's safer if the dog gets loose it's their defense guard nobody has to see it the van is in and out in and out and then we have adoptions thoroughly throughout the day we took pictures that I then sent to Matt off the street throughout the day there was never more than three cars in front of the house unusually huge on my side of the road in front of my house people came they adopted they left and they went and spent money in the community by the way which is another piece of of this is that they don't just just get ready to go sometimes they stay overnight sometimes they stay for a weekend sometimes they spend money at local restaurants and at the warehouse but that day I have to say was so smooth we were so proud of what we did because the problem was identified and we felt like we fixed it and we got slaughtered on social media about how we had cars parked in my backyard and the dogs were in the backyard and the families in the backyard and my mailbox is too tall and it sticks out too far and it just becomes no matter what I do there's going to be somebody that is going to complain about it I will tell you that anyone that says that we leave dogs outside all the time I don't know they're drinking but I would like some of it because I live there and if there were dogs outside parking all the time I would not live there we feed it 6.30 in the morning we feed it 7 o'clock in the morning one volunteer usually shows up maybe a few minutes ahead of time to fill outside buckets or whatever and get things straightened out we have a maximum of 2 volunteers show up in the morning so 2 cars mine is in the driveway volunteers might be in the driveway and there might be one in front of the house I wish we had 10 volunteers in the morning but we don't so a maximum of 3 volunteers they show up at 7 they take the dogs out for walks the dogs that are quiet will go back out to the outside kennels but for a very brief time they might be in a kennel for 15 minutes because the person who's walking comes back puts that dog away takes one from the back of their kennel takes that dog on the walk we're done this morning by 8.30 and sometimes 8.15 so have there been dogs parking? yes and my neighbor's dog has been parking and the little chihuahua behind us has been parking and the golden retriever next to us has been parking I ignore it because it's supposed to be a neighborhood so if I have 2 dogs that park intermittently between 7 and 8.30 those could be my own personal dogs out in my yard this thing about dogs parking constantly is just not accurate the traffic piece I think we talked about transport day is the big one we're willing to do things to mitigate that before there was talk about how much square footage is in my house because on my Facebook page I made a comment 2 years ago about how it felt like the rescue was moving farther and farther into the house it was a comment on my Facebook page about what I sacrificed as a rescue person it did not say that I had chemicals upstairs in my living room or my bedroom or that I'm courting the dogs the dogs are in tunnels and crates in my garage which can't be used for anything else by the way because as the road was raised the driveway was raised and there's about an inch drop between the driveway and the garage floor so it's never been put apart in a different way so it has portable steel kennels there in the picture has a line down one side with larger kennels and down the right side I had a contractor I can only describe as the wall of the cubbies that small crates fit into for the smaller dogs I have a laundry room with a cleaning unit so I'm going to laundry dog things but it's also my laundry products the kennels out back I feel like we're going to jump around a little bit so stop me I get confused um they're portable they're not set in the ground they can be unclipped and moved anywhere I want to move down by a couple of people in 15 minutes they're not on foundations they have campus roofs that clip on to them they're not intended to be permanent structures they're not used to store things they're used to hold a dog for half an hour while it's waiting to go on the kennels along the back actually are structures that I used to put my lawn tractor under in the winter time because I don't want to find another garden shed so I have one garden shed I have one shed up against the back of my house that holds big brakes and bridges and poses and that sort of thing there is no specific outdoor storage for the dog rescue everything is stored within the garage we have shelving units across the back the whole medication bay um yeah I mean that's sort of the outdoor gist of it so in the morning two to three volunteers maximum and I just ask them how many people are there today after I do this the same two to three people and if one of those parks in my driveway the most two people that can park in front of my house for 90 minutes I have a neighbor that's a cab driver that has eight cars in his yard all the time and his cab is parked on the road all the time I don't care it's a cab I know what he does he doesn't bother me other neighbors cars but tonight we're talking about your own property yeah and that is and I feel like we have been treated as this we've got one van that was donated to us by a neighbor that we use to take dogs to the vet it's a Dodge caravan it's parked on my yard and it gets it off the street and that is the only vehicle parked on my lawn short of my camper which is at that okay so just to recalibrate all so tonight we're so we're here to talk about is your is your home business compliant with the home business okay that's really that's really where we're here to talk about and I'd like the the testimony to be focused on that objective is there anything else for you that you would like to add before I ask to give the DRB go ahead to ask questions I think the only thing I just want to circle back to is the traffic there were some letters that were sent in to the board with pictures one in particular there was a picture taken from my house looking down piling toward the industrial lab and there was a tractor parked at the end I was not outside this particular transport day but I do know that there was a fellow who was a trucker from Montreal who was coming back from New York he asked if he could stop and pick up his dog and his way back so he could not make another trip down the way assumption was because he's a trucker and I shouldn't have made that assumption that he would probably park that somewhere away from our street and he didn't he parked it right on piling the police recall they talked to him right away and he did pick up his dog and left but it wasn't something that I was more than it was done intentionally there was another photo that was taken of ours lining the street and honestly if I had been out there I would have been like because I was in my office drafting contracts so I could get the doctors moving what happened on that things that transport weather coming up from Texas they were about three hours behind we had the doctors that were coming and I know that they had already left and we just couldn't coordinate reaching people to say don't come we're running late so everyone kind of converged on that one day that was the one day I apologize profusely my neighbors because I would have been upset about it as well and I think my volunteers felt bad about it but I just don't see any way that we could have predicted it or changed how it happened as it happened since and hopefully so what we're looking for now is a regular offsite commercial space where we can do our transport days but I don't want that to change the fact that I still have the kennel I still have dogs that will be at my home and I would tell you that people say to me almost every day I walk up to your house and I know you have a dog so quiet I just don't tolerate a lot of noise from the dogs once feeding is done it is quiet until 3 o'clock when volunteers show up so I guess that's all I can think of at this point I'll just have the answer okay DRP members questions please so it sounds like you've arranged for an offsite commercial space for transport days is that correct we have one for our next transport day is that permanent yet not permanent it's not we're reaching out to a lot of different folks we're trying to help us on a regular place so we have one for the transport coming next week and we're reaching out to dealers to other commercial properties looking for a place that we can use regularly because that would in my mind anyway that would just mitigate all of the issues with the traffic this doesn't really remain to this discussion but did you go look at where all the traffic was yes it is actually I went there before you even closed my home town hall they gave me the information the property it called them right away we chatted a few times back and forth over the months and they decided that they did not want to do that kind of a venture in that building so I let it go other question I had is the hours of the day are the dogs allowed to run to the backyard so there are only two puppies that run in the backyard together and honestly when they're running in the backyard you don't even hear them they're not working running making a big fuss they're just running around playing together so at the end of our let's say the end of our morning shift maybe quarter past eight those two puppies go out and last and one of our volunteers will be out there supervising them while they're running around playing for 15 or 20 minutes and then they go back to them so there are not there are not dogs but there are never dogs unsupervised in the backyard and there are very few dogs that even go out to run in the backyard the dogs are walking in the neighborhood and one thing that I did get to say before if I could now is that before all three of us closed they walked in our neighborhood which I really don't like but there were a lot of volunteers and a lot of big bully breeds that were walking in our neighborhood with all three of us new volunteers they're closed now and have been for a while and that has just significantly reduced the amount of dog traffic through the neighborhood so we may have some of the volunteers can answer this better than I can because I have mobility issues so I'm not the person that are walking dogs but we may have three dogs walking at any given time in the neighborhood it's not we're not cats, so the volunteers and dogs are all going down the same path the outdoor canals are used solely for a staging area for dogs that are being walked dogs aren't kept in them they are not absolutely not for instance in the morning the dogs that go out first are the dogs that we absolutely never quiet and there are I think three of them that go out to outdoor canals and while they're in the outdoor canals the volunteers are walking the other dogs that we know will be going to the different places outside so we don't okay now you've considered finding an offsite area for your volunteers to park that seems to be an issue my answer is no because there's two cars it doesn't seem outside of what's allowed for either a residential or home business it's for an hour and a half on twice a day one because one of them is in my driveway and the other one or two might be parked in front of my house between my fence I mean if you came back to me and said that's the condition of we're certainly willing to visit anything when I said we got blindsided by this I really need that blindsided by this and now we're trying to take together all the information and say what can we do is it possible to still do what we do and mitigate whatever the concerns are we're completely open to hearing whatever the suggestions are because mouse made some and I jumped on them in the air okay what's the average number of dogs so it really does vary and I say that but it varies depending on we might have we might think we have 20 dogs coming up and in the last 4 days before transport we find out that 4 of those dogs for medical reasons have been pulled off so we might get 12 or 15 we've gotten transports that were as big as 30 and I would say on the 30 dog transport 27 of them left that day in fact I think that was the day I think the 20 the 30 dog transport was the one where we parked in the backyard and tried to keep things quiet and 27 of those dogs left that day that day you would have had 30 cars coming here well they would have been they would have had hourly appointments and it would have been 3 appointments per hour so potentially 3 cars that came adopted left and how often I'm sure it fluctuates but how often the transports comes once a month so if this happens once per month what are the I mean I guess not every time all the dogs are adopted on the same day so are those the dogs at your house the rest of the time so for instance on the 30 dog transport there were 3 that didn't get adopted as any they obviously stayed on and were adopted over the course of the next weeks and we do sometimes have kind of a dog right now that just under 5 surgery so she's been with us for a few weeks she'll be about Thursday it's very rare we have a lot of dogs over a long period of time so most of the dogs have been adopted before they're even at your house and you're just facilitating the transfer of the dogs questions John's questions you guys are a great job I guess what I'm wondering about is how many dogs are in a non-easy between transport how many dogs are typically at your house so and again it's a flux thing because dogs are being adopted right now we have so right now there are 8 1 will leave 2 will leave tomorrow and 1 will leave on Thursday so how it happens that there will be 8 right now but some will leave the next go ahead the next chance there's no guarantee some are going to leave the dog it's just not the right fit and we never push for someone to adopt it's got to be the right fit so it comes back to the house and we go back to the books and our goal is never to have lots of dogs long term but we are always going to have some dogs either for behavior issues or health issues or because of age we have senior homeroomians right now that are not going to be as easy to place as a great game so there are dogs that are held on to until we find the right place so is age is that a typical number or is that kind of a high number no I mean the kennel the kennel can hold we have 4 big 4 big kennels down to one side they're rubber man it's all cement they're rubber man it we have 4 big kennels and then this wall of cubbies for smaller dogs so we can hold any kennel we can hold a maximum in what we call the kennel and you would call the garage when we find it and considering that only 4 of those are big dogs the rest are going to be dogs that are under typically under 25 kennels so that's her but that wouldn't be just sort of going back how we used to do it we used to bring the transport and unload all the dogs into the kennel and we would hold them for 2 or 3 weeks and handle them and get to know them and then honestly we got tired we found that it wasn't holding the dogs we were just being there we moved again and that's when we changed to bring the transport in and rematch as many dogs as we can so they don't sit they come in and they move on and we found that that was the best for us and definitely for the dogs Paul any questions? Yeah I got a question When you fill out your homestead exemption what do you declare your business use of your dwelling to be? I can't actually answer that What do you know whether it's more than zero? No but what I'm saying is I don't know without going back and checking I would like to know that number just out of curiosity Paul why are you asking that question? Well if she says that she's running a business and that she follows all the rules then her business use of her dwelling should have a number said that it would reduce her tax rate Well I think it's a non-profit so there's no income so you typically wouldn't be expensing that You're going Paul I'm curious you would probably know roughly what percent of your utilities because that's the best that could be The rest contains nothing to be in the house I think it's tricky because it's not like a home office where you have stationary objects at the time of space that are moving around I think that was 700 square foot apartment I can't imagine having 20 or 10 dogs in that space So I think this is probably exceeds the currently the intended use of a home business but maybe that could be corrected And again you asked me would that be the maximum that would be if the transport came in and no one took a dog I don't remember the last one that we had that many dogs and the kennel is typically six, seven, eight and they're going out all the time So it's just constantly a flux situation I do not have 20 dogs in the kennel all the time That's not what we do Our business is developing three abilities in calming dogs At this stage I'd like to open up for public comment And so this is the portion of this hearing where if you are interested and if you're online you're going to need to raise your virtual hand and staff will acknowledge you and allow you to participate If you are here and I believe there's an interested party there why don't you come forward and state your name and address for the record please Just a second And so a couple of revisiting what I asked and as far as rules of engagement when the hearing started is is the DRP's rule here is not to pass judgment on the merits of the business is is the business compliant with the bylaws that's really all we are trying to do here and so if you keep your comments remain to that that would be appreciated and if you would keep your comments brief that would be appreciated and before I yield the floor for you to introduce yourself Mr. Riley go ahead and comment would be please address your comments to the board this is not an opportunity to go back and forth with the with the account with that I introduce myself please My name is Crystal Lucek I live with the Delphalm Center I have been volunteering for about one year my question is I believe that this tsunami of complaints arose based on complaints sent by Keith Marshall who emailed the board members and the town my question is, is Keith Marshall a resident of Williston and is that actually required if anyone just had an email and sent a complaint to a business that had an incidence in the town so Matt addressed that early whoever is on the phone could you please mute yourself thank you okay so Matt addressed that that somebody from outside of Williston and certainly raised the issue the question just comes to whether they would be granted party status if this were to go through the active 50 process and whether they would have party status and the right to appeal that's not applicable here and so it's a move point whether Keith is a resident or not I don't know the answer that's okay somebody else have sir if you would please come on up and introduce yourself thank you I'm Mike Jennifer I live in 64 Pine Lane in my White Acres and if you look at the team this is the White White this is the Pine Lane White House this is here you know before I talk about the project I just want to say that out of the 68 many of the 68 comments from neighbors in White Acres they expressed I think legitimate prostrations on what's happening with the rescue especially in the transport every time a resident had a condom coasted on the rescue's there was I was going to say inappropriate comments about the person if you believe what you see on Facebook none of the neighbors in White Acres like dogs none of the neighbors support the rescue and the neighbors are we prefer the dogs to kill the Texans than some of you know that's true people in White Acres like dogs the rescue is a good business they do a good thing for dogs and for people but maybe it's not in the right space and so don't go back of what I want to live with this is does the business hold on does the business mean the criteria that's what we're here for so the frustrating part about that is the town has known about the rescue for years the town manager in our violation habit the town manager wrote a letter to an email to the new zoning administrator Hartman said I have read complaints often on about this operation as Donna just said she talked to Matt who said maybe a home business for this year how would she know how how can business run from 2015's my start point through 2022 how can the town get complaints about it get questions about it and the flames only raise on August 3rd this year how can that happen I can't speak to that I'm not acceptable that we've gone down the road to the town the neighbors are frustrated they were talking to the town they had a courteous fact in the town you know from the rescue how is he favorite of that if he's doing this all along all of a sudden they're helping out I could understand your frustration but tonight we're here to see if the business is compliant the key thing that happened is it's been widening the system I'm one of the ones who are not there at all my wife and I are one of the ones who posted comments to the town we did not there at all in 2018 I'm glad Donna explained what the process was like in 2018 they were also taxes recommended they were awful in New York now in 2018 the person who was like the face of the rescue was the town she worked for the rescue by 30 every morning she would get there 4 o'clock every afternoon Monday through Sunday she'd walk in on it she'd take care of the dogs they'd do $100 volunteer helping her now the dogs were there at 5.30 in the morning so we adopted our law in January 2018 at some point the model changed and as Donna said now they advertised the dogs in taxes people adopted and then they come up with much larger quantities and that's what is generally all the traffic back then in 2018 I don't know exactly when the model changed 2018-2019 I couldn't tell you if the rescue there didn't supply it we'd see Karen the volunteer a couple of volunteers didn't come out they'd walk the dogs up and down the street they'd walk the dogs in the backyard at the bottom I can't even remember so now the history lesson I'm not trying to be disrespectful I understand but my point is that we are and I start to get a little agitated when testimony is taken and my boundaries are ignored you're ignoring my boundaries ok so wrap it up please ok so the problem is the volume is increased when you have your dogs and have more traffic the problem is the house limited to tea the cars are on the first side of the street that reduces the radius of the traffic and I have seen a school bus struggle to make the traffic the cars are the three o'clock in the afternoon on the road cars struggle to make the traffic the cars are on the whole side of the road and that happens sometimes it's not a two-way road it's one-way road just to clarify this is on transport days this is on bills on Monday every new school bus cars on both sides and that has happened during non-transport days cars can't go the whole way the natural tendency to drive is part of the grass a little bit that happens when you get two wheels off the grass well that removes the grass but that helps a little bit I mean that's the problem the problem with the rest of the streets and as a result of increased traffic which goes to the PMP hours which goes to the noise because as more cars as more parking and that's what the problem is but frustration is the towns and villages are using it for years the other thing I'm having to hear that they're considering transport days in a remote location because I have a suggestion to let's decouple transport days from the rest of you would call it a special event but you're picking a weekend down the road you're going to have congestion you're going to have traffic issues you're going to have frustration you're going to have a safety issues of all those cars sitting in roads coming in on a Saturday while neighborhoods are walking in dogs and riding bikes so you can't let you can't let neighborhoods be this small I talked to Matt about the temporary vendor and say how can I not crack on... how are you going to enforce temporary vendors during the session if you don't have the residents do that we're going to count on the neighbors to tell us if they don't follow the criteria which is pretty ironic since how many years to come by and years to talk with you about what's happening the only other thing I have and I just want to talk about wastewater since this is a commercial, this doesn't require a wastewater application. I mean, I've seen it as a state permit, we still probably haven't seen it before, but then the town allocation, the town allocation should be based on the dollars in the cattle. If you use the state standard, the state will allocate 25 gallons per channel. And I just want to make an example, if you look at the whole business application, I have inscribed S$1 water, if you look at the text again, it says the business may be a state permit, a state permit, and town allocation. Is that required for this business or not? I don't know. Yeah, so as part of the processing, the administrative permit coordinated with the public works director requires whether any additional sewer allocation needs to be sold, in the case of any business or home that's connected to public sewer, as this one is. And if there is a need for additional allocation, we purchase, we would hold the permit and the public works director has to leave that sale and sign off. That's the main reason there's a line for the public works director to sign on our is to account for wastewater. And how does that play with the, what is the amendment A, attachment A of the sewer allocation? But, attachment A to the sewer allocation ordinance is essentially the town's yearly sewer budget, which the town decides once a year how much wastewater treatment capacity will be made available for sale to new users or expected users across a number of use categories. So the town makes a certain amount of capacity available for residential expansions, they make a certain amount of capacity available for sale for new commercial. Likely for a home business, the director would sell that out of the new commercial category, as long as there's allocation available to the seller, ministerial act by the public works director. My understanding is there's several thousand gallons per day right now in commercial capacity available for sale. And it changes every fiscal year. Okay, next for public testimony. We've got four people to say. Okay, why don't we let the participant number one. So I'm going to call you in the order I saw you come up, so Elvis first. Okay, can you hear me? Yep, name and address please. Okay, my name is Elvis Barich. I live at 218 White Perch Lane. I've lived in this neighborhood since around 2010. I previously lived right next door to the rescue for about five years. My parents still live there now. I purchased the house around the corner about five years ago. So I still live in the neighborhood.  I know when I chat with a lot of the residents. So I'm pretty familiar with the neighborhood. I'm pretty familiar with the rescue. I think I'm probably a subject matter expert on that right now. I'll based on my experiment experience. I'm mainly here to raise my concerns about the rescue operation in the neighborhood. I believe the rescue has outgrown the definition of a home business in Wellston and I believe they've outgrown it by a lot. I believe continued operation while being great for all the dogs coming up from Texas is detrimental to our small neighborhood. It's a small neighborhood. There are a lot of cars coming through here. So I believe the information in the application, the town staff's report failed to capture the full scale of the operation and the issues that that creates. So I started by reviewing the permit application, the letters of comment and the staff report. I have a couple of specific comments about the application. First and foremost, I believe that the rescue fails to meet Section 2, Appendix G of the Development Bylaws. Section 2, as you previously mentioned, states that the maximum floor area on a home that a business can occupy is 500 square feet or 25% of the finished floor area, whichever is less. So in the case of the applicants provided dimensions, the indoor space in the garage and the outdoor kennels, the calculated area is about 470 square feet conveniently just under that 475 square foot limit for this home. So looking at the layout of the garage itself, the drawing provided by the applicant shows the garage's dimensions of 14.5 by 20 feet for a total square area of 290 square feet. And if I say anything wrong, please correct me. But looking at the dimensions, the 20 foot length of the garage is filled by four, that's four, four by six foot kennels, which account for the first 16 feet in length, then a two foot wide food prep area for a total of 18 linear feet of the 20 linear feet that are called out there. All of these areas are then followed by a series of another dog crate, an aisle, and a shelving unit that supposedly all occupy the remaining two feet of linear floor length in this garage. So that accounts for the full 20 feet somehow. I don't know how you fit all that stuff into two feet to get yourself to 14.5 by 20 foot dimension. Maybe somebody else could speak to that a little bit better. But there isn't enough information in the drawing to check for discrepancies in that 14.5 foot dimension. But seeing the discrepancy in that one dimension, I think requires a little bit more scrutiny from the Development Review Board to make sure that these dimensions are actually met. I don't believe that they currently are. So beyond that, I believe that alone puts a rescue in excess of the allowable area of 475 square feet if you add in the extra square footage by the neglected dimensions there. So next, if you look further in the application at the photos provided by the rescue, I personally noticed that there's a dog bath that is located next to a washer and a dryer and some additional storage in there as well. Presumably in the first floor or the basement area as well, right next to the garage. The dog bath area and the laundry area appear to be emitted from the allowable area calculations and any of the drawings that were provided by the applicant. After seeing this and reading a public comment from another resident, referencing the social media post made by the rescue, I looked up that specific post from September 11th of this year. I'm sorry, I can't hear you. I heard somebody speak up so I stopped. Anyways, this is the post that the applicant previously alluded to. September 11th of this year, the rescue's operator specifically stated, and I quote, I have chosen to give up 40% of my home to house dogs in need. And then goes on to say, I have converted my garage to kennels and cubbies for small dogs which is shown in the drawings in the layout and somewhat accounted for in the area calculation, although it seems to be wrong and then continues to say, and my once roomy renovated laundry room is the quiet room for the dogs. I think this information confirms what a lot of people have come here to say tonight and that is that this is no longer a small dog rescue operation operating out of a 290 square foot garage and a couple of kennels. The rescue operation that likely occupies at least the entire first floor of a home spills out into the backyard, the front yard and the streets of this neighborhood, greatly exceeding any allowable area for a home business. So I don't think this application covers a home that meets the criteria of a home business in Wilson per section two of NXG. And then one final data point I have here is something that you folks have mentioned earlier and that is another rescue that operated in the area and that's Albury Rescue, another great rescue. I love the work they did. I actually volunteered there with my girlfriend in the past. We used to walk dogs down to the park a lot of times. They claimed to have re-homed about 400 to 800 dogs a year based on the paperwork I was able to find. They did that out of a facility that is about 3,000 square feet off of industrial avas, you know. This rescue using a similar model of kenneling and fostering claims to do about 300 dogs out of a 290 square foot garage. Albreeds had a reception area, had a quiet area, had a break room. They had an office for doing all the paperwork and they had a large area for all the dogs that were kenneled there. So the numbers just don't scale to me. I don't believe that this business qualifies to be run out of the basement of a home. I love the work they're doing. I'm a dog owner. I love dogs and it's great to see these dogs going to good homes. But it's just become detrimental to this neighborhood. And I think a lot of the people who are here tonight to talk about this, hearing some of the comments from the applicant about, you know, there are never more than three cars and there's never any barking. It's hard to hear those comments and keep a straight face from my end personally. I can't rectify that with my experience living next door to there and walking through there all the time. So that's all I have. Thank you very much. Zoom participant number two. Can you hear me? Yeah. James Bowling. I live at 521 Whitebird Lane, diagonally from the rescue in the neighborhood. I want to state real quick that every volunteer has been wonderful. They've been polite. They've been in the neighborhood, never had an issue with anybody. My biggest concern when talking about this as a home business is that the rescue uses the entire neighborhood. And they are walking dogs often, daily. I get it. It's a wonderful cause. I have two small children. We had one incident a few weeks ago when I mean incident. It wasn't a problem except for the fact that as we go around the neighborhood these rescue dogs, you know, like we have to pause and stop to let them go by because the kids on the bike distract them and they start yanking on the dog walkers. And to be honest with you, especially when you hear stories like what happened out of Tennessee a few weeks ago as a father of a five-year-old and a two-year-old with some of these large breeds, it makes me feel uncomfortable just as a reference and to keep it short and under your parameters. They're just, they're using more than just that home. They're using our entire neighborhood to facilitate the needs of these dogs. She even mentioned it, how often they're being walked. And like others have said, wonderful cause and every volunteer has been extremely pleasant. They don't have anything against them. I just, it's incursive in our neighborhood and to be honest with you, even our kids using the front yard, you're talking nine to 15 times in an hour and a half period that large, sometimes large dogs are coming by when our kids are throwing balls and doing things that would agitate them. That's all I had to say. Thank you for having me. Okay, thank you. Next room. Hi everyone. My name is Hanala Barrick and I own the property next door to the rescue at 192 Lamplight Lane. And I agree with the concerns voiced by my neighbors and the letters about the parking and traffic. And I personally seen the parking of cars in front of my neighbor's properties for years. But I also want to raise and emphasize the concern of noise, specifically the continuous parking of dogs, which begins in the early morning hours, sometimes before 7 a.m. And then again in the afternoon. This may last over an hour, usually multiple dogs simultaneously parking, which would be quite confusing for someone like myself working from home early in the morning. My bedroom window is actually only 20 feet away from the fence that divides our property. The other concern I have is the outdoor storage and structures along the property line, specifically a container possibly storing waste, food or something else in the front yard. And then panels that may not be in compliance with the bylaw or the setback rules of bylaws. I believe there are five or six panels that were mentioned in the backyard and those should also follow the setback rules set forth by the town. In addition, the staff report notes that the backyard cannot be used as part of the business, but during the adoption events the front and backyards are used as part of the business, which is supposed to be an indoor operation mainly. So the nuisance of the parking and the proximity of the structures to the property line is something that's really important to me and concerns me. Also in the staff report, it was suggested that if cars aren't going to be parked in front of the property, they could park to the north side of the actual driveway, but that area is the front lawn right next to my property. And that's another concern in terms of how far away those would be from the property line. As I stated in my letter that I wrote in, I like seeing my neighbors businesses succeed. I've always had good interactions with the volunteers and there have not been any issues, but as long as those businesses are not disruptive to their neighbors. Thank you. Hi, thank you. Kristen Kovals, I lived at 499 Whiteburg Lane. I want to first start off by saying that I agree with all the comments that have been shared by my neighbors so far. And in the interest of time, I'm not going to repeat those same comments, but I do agree specifically with the last three comments that were provided. I think the operations of the rescue are very complex in their variable. I think at this time they're hard to manage within the parameters of an acceptable use of a business. Cars are traveling from Texas, they're coming from Canada, they're coming from various different locations. It's hard to get in touch with people if plans need to change. The conditions of approval, I think Matt mentioned earlier in the evening that the board could require a plan to be submitted to address how the rescue operations would fit within the parameters of the conditions of approval. I think that would be really helpful. I don't think at this point the business can operate within these parameters. I think the 475 square footage, I agree with the comments from my other neighbors that it's use of the property, it's use of the neighborhood, so I don't see how the home business could be limited to 475 square feet. In addition to that, I think the transport days, obviously those would have to be removed off-site. The parking is an issue. I know that the applicant testified that there's no more than three cars and they are specific times, but that doesn't match up with the reality that we're seeing in the neighborhood. It is very common to have cars parked on the lawn on both sides of the street and blocking traffic and making it hard for others to use and navigate the neighborhood. It's two other conditions of approval that came to mind for me was, in addition to the hours of operation, to limit the impact on the neighborhood if the board could consider requiring that the dogs be walked outside of the neighborhood out onto North Grand Nile as opposed to around the neighborhood. Thank you. Let's go, let's continue with the Zoom people. Okay, other people have interest in, I saw some raised hand, so come on back up. Yeah, this is, first of all, staying and volunteering from my comment is specific to a comment raised earlier by a tenant, alluding to the fact that we're using a lot of sewage water or wastewater. The dog waste is captured in here, food bags or wooden shavings that are taken for rent. We're not flushing.  We're doing dishes each time we're there when we clean the canals, but I would say that our water, waste or consumption is not a more than normal average. Okay, thank you. Okay, others? First, Lana. My name is Michael Ortson, I'm the president of the whole district of Malta, the first week of the year. Thanks, I had one question in the typical clarification. The first gentleman on Zoom, when he was discussing the mention of the garage, it sounded like everything was going lengthwise, but it's the more I said it was going lengthwise, and then it was, so that was an actor for me saying. My other thing, is that you bring us all the rest of the day, we come out, it's about the same number. If you do organization, whatever you do, that they need is very sense-alive, we don't. We change the model, we match the need for a home, favorite for the day, we break out the last, these are the several last, one of the last couple of years, do you have anywhere from 5 to 9, to 8 to 9, to 8 to 9, to 8 to 9, to 8? Thanks, last thing, I have a question. Does everyone have to talk about KMT hours? So, the way in the list of measures, vehicle traffic that's generated by new views or change of views, is by looking up the Institute for Transportation Engineers, manual, how many new vehicle trips, those people who are entering or leaving the premises, are typically generated by that view, during the busiest hour of the evening, Monday through Friday, between 4 and 6 pm. So, again, so when traffic is generally busiest in Williston, is when Williston is going by light, most interested in what's happening, when new views are happening. So, if I was really lucky, I would take out this big $600 book that they now bought, and I would turn to the page that said, dog rescue, and it would say, for so many thousand square feet, a dog rescue typically adds tax number of vehicle trips during the busiest hour between 4 and 6 pm Monday through Friday. So, despite its high price, that book does not have that category in it. And in fact, I looked and I really couldn't find a good parallel for that. So, in the event that that's what happens, the DRB in the Biola has the ability to inquire of the applicant about the nature of the operation, make their own observations, try to make some determination. But when we're talking about the home business, the limit for things that I can permit over the counter administratively is a cruise that's going to add no more than one pm peak hour trip back. So, somebody who's doing a drop shipping business, selling stuff on Amazon, and PTSD comes sometime between 4 and 6, that's it, they've generated their trip. It's a very low level of intensity for our businesses to be able to be permitted administratively. As we got into our analysis of the administrative permit application here, it was very, very high likelihood that there's more than one pm peak hour trip than being generated by that evening volunteer traffic that elevates this to development new board review and public review. Just to really sum that up, I think so we're saying at the end of the hour, the busiest hour in that area that happens. But the last thing that I don't know that the children they are, our volunteers are very conscientious. We walk one hour at a time, I always remember myself, I'm a team, I want my way to cross the street when I see somebody come in. Now because the dog is taking her, so we're going to have problems with each other, so at least writing the reports to the new children, I'm also going to hang out here and, you know, draft, you know, while the traffic, you know, we don't stop them anymore. Thank you. Okay, other members of the public that would like to address the floor. My name is Kim Byerbill, I'm from the last corner of UBAP. For me, for these issues, I'm looking at a particular nation that has such a great sub, has been a powerful leader, and has gotten worse. And although I would say, even years ago, it was days when dogs were far away. And people that I remember, as I'm hungry, okay, and I used to see there were so many bears, so there was nobody. So I had dogs, and they'd give a lot of candy to the dog, but I'd bring them in to prevent excessive barking. My sense is that it's a lot of the bark, and it has changed the last, probably, we didn't have, when we were away, or made a change in the last month, certainly not the last So there's less noise now, but I don't cross with the lack, so we don't have some sort of monitor. So barking is intense, it's a lot, in the morning, and it can be very intense. I have to warn people right now, since this is a bad day, which is supposed to be long, but they're going to be awake in the morning, and I can't just come right away, and be all I'm in a dog's waiting in the morning. So I have my loud environment, but there's water to the small dog, not water to the small dog, the rest. I always work the rest of my work, the rest of the work, you know, it's possible. And from the rest of the work, at the time, we didn't know that it was not permitted, and I myself had a business with a permit, and I was very conscious of requirements, and it comes, you know, somebody might come back, it's important to be aware of that. And part of the street, by the passing part of the record, they're serving distance in cars, but I was just doing it to be graduated. Although I knew that, the neighbors might have come to me and say, we're going to go home, so some people could be mad at me, too. People don't want to have that, and it didn't look like it at all, we might try to keep things in less than three years. And so when I came to this, it wasn't just being very precious, it was also knowing, maybe it's not knowing the law, but I think there are norms in people, and most everybody in the industry, and certainly we have one of those inquiries, that's why I think it was the lost us, lost kids, and they told me a lot of, you know, for me, what we like and like, but this business has, I want to say, and I would really urge her to see it, in a really appropriate commercial space, of the problem. And I, I really supported having a future, don't even do the future of that, but I really, it's just not going to be too much for those of us in the neighborhood, why doesn't I retire if I work at home, out of my home, and virtually.  And so we kind of let it go for a long time. Long enough, done, here we go, certainly don't want to freak out the rest of that, and be trying, but then it can't be where it's really wanted to be. It's been really precious time. I really appreciate you thank you. Other members of the public that would like to speak. One of the things that seem to get downplayed a little bit, first of all, she goes to three cars every morning, one gets in the driveway sometimes, there's always two cars out of the intersection of that, you know, seven and eight thirds, and that, you know, three, four by the platform as there is, there's been on the average four. And they're not, you know, they just don't, I mean, unless they're going to pull up on the lawn, which I assume since you use the backyard, it's probably okay, but they don't. They park down on the street. And that's not a great intersection. It's not very wide. It's not very amicable. And there's no way to fix it. It is what it is. But when you put your cars in it, and she happens to be right on the intersection, somebody has to be on the wrong side of the road. And, you know, if there's this conflict, it's a big up neighborhood where that's a constant, there's always somebody going through the intersection. And, and I understand we need to, it's just got to be, thank you. Thank you. Other one. Property. You know, we would have, we would require longer to have more doctors on property at the same time, but with this, as we go from Texas, we're, if we do that outside, we won't have a, we won't have an additional 20 to 20 parts.  So, this is a section that we need to conduct it in the neighborhood. We have support for that. Thank you. Absolutely. So, I wanted to talk to a couple of things. Is there, there was reference about things that I say on our Facebook page? It's where I interact with our supporters. I don't necessarily do it on our porch forum, although I have people who interact with me on the porch forum. What I say on my Facebook page, my supporters interacting with them should not be taken out of the context. If I make a comment about, oh, I just moved the dog into my laundry room, my bigger question would be, is why are people stalking the Facebook page? Like, I don't go, I don't go looking for trouble, but we have discovered, like, that a lot of these people that have written these letters are on our Facebook page all the time, picking out things out of context, making them look in a way that they are not in turn. And I would just hope that everybody would keep that in mind that any social media does get done that way. This idea that one of the men said, he felt safer walking on the streets of Bosnia than walking in our neighborhood.  So, so again, trying to keep this within the chat. I know, but I really don't want to talk too much about social media and about what people are saying. And I want to keep it within the context of is the business operation that's taking place, compliant with the rules and the rules to bylaw. Okay. And so I want to, I'm trying to say, I'm trying to give some latitude, okay, to the impact in the neighborhood that people want to express, et cetera. But I'm trying to put some balance on that. Right. So, we do not lose the whole neighborhood unless you consider walking in dogs, a whole neighborhood. They were buying these dogs and still be walking in the neighborhood. Penals that actually talked about before, they're not accessories, storage. They're not, they're not a garden or a shadow, but we have one of those. These are portable dog channels that dogs spend half an hour in in the morning and in the afternoon. There are never dogs left out during the day, ever, ever. And when you can come over any time, they're about to see dogs in the upper channels. And there are never dogs out at lunch. The dogs are back into the channels by four o'clock and we are, we are done through the day. So, if they're dogs parking in the park, they are not parks. Okay. Any other, any other members of the public that would like to address the park? Bona? My name is Sarah. My name is Sarah Walsh, and I'm from the Presbyterian Park and I'm from St. Edward. But I can't talk about the whole specifics of the business, but I'm interested in the safety of people who never take a dog in here. Anyone that is aggressive or a dog aggressive, you can walk here. Near them, you ought to try and get a tree or you walk into the parking lot. And also, the dog line, how to use the car parking.  I understand what you're doing. If there aren't any side of those people who want to launch something, most of us have to do it. And I think so, but I just want to know that if you try to be conscientious about what you're doing around us, you're going to try to make an angry fire action. All right, thank you. Any other members of the public want to address the park? One is that the earth has been here, and not only was that a lot of property surrounding it, it was surrounding it. It basically was a big looper. And there's something I haven't told myself. When it didn't send letters or anything, they just kind of liked it.  Because I know it's not a lot of dirty rules. It's not fair to people in the town, in the neighborhood, that they're put in a position where they have to deal with it. My other point was, it's my understanding that if I'm going to get some money numbers, which first started business, it was pretty much that was it, maybe 40, 30 years. And in 2019, it was over 300. And she was stating at the end of 2019, it was over $300. And that's three years. And she said that she expected to possibly beat their record of $300. And it's been like that. It was possible. I love them. And I love to say hi to them. But the business is just and every single one of her readers has, and it's just not fair to put all those people out there. You know, I understand it's our human dogs.  Maybe because they're having a hard time with you know, the neighbors or whatever. They can be a challenge.  And I think that these are the people that live in this state. People that have given their support. Thank you. Any other members of the public that would like to address the floor? Wow. Oh, this property has been in here. This has been operating for thousands of years and has been in there. But as the growth has changed, so has that. The year in the past two years, the operator of the business has already earned it. So we have a little bit of growth lines. Thank you for that work. I was very active in each. And there's so many. Not every perspective. And I know that. And always. Waiting for. So that's been what we've been forced to do. Thank you. Thank you. Any other members of the public that would like to address the floor? I would just. No, no, no, no. You've been right. You've been very succinct in your comments. I just would ask that that we're starting to get repeat themes. Yes. And so I just ask that people be like that. And that's kind of highlights. So I'm not just living in, you know, like, like, years, or years, as I'm sure all of your neighbors do. You may not like all of your neighbors. You may not know that along as often as you would prefer. But it seems that she's become a target for neighborhood honor or for discussion. Yeah, we have to walk towards that. We've got cars and parking in appropriate spots because of the location level. Let's not take personal fees. Let's look at business and business. I know people are coming. They've been abused for being heard by our people. I'm sorry. But it is this and I believe that she has a right to invest. So if anybody else in the neighborhood would have a right, and that's all I want. So at the beginning of the hearing, I said that this, this is at the end of the day, this is really about property rights. And, and I, and I remain steadfast on that. There's protection of property rights of the African, and there's protection of property rights of the neighbors. And that is really the core issue here. And so thank you. I agree with what you just said. Okay, any other public, any other members of the public that would like to address the board, the RV members? Yeah, I'll get there. The RV members. Any other questions? Okay, it's got something to add. I just wanted to say that when the issue was first brought to my attention about traffic, the police officers came to the house and said we are playing with that. Traffic blocking, wherever it was, I don't remember. And I literally walked out on the street with him, talked to him about what cars we have, when, where they parked, and said, tell me where the cars. Tell me, do we have too many cars? If we don't have too many cars, where can they be parked? And he literally told me where they could be parked. And as long as we do not block the through traffic, it's a non issue.  Don't block the street itself as long as traffic can go through. We're good. So I thought that we were, felt that we were good with that. And and I just wanted to say that from a neighbor perspective, I don't think that there's anything gracious about being silent. Because the minute that we use, there was a problem, which is why the last three weeks have been quieter. The minute that we use, there was a problem. We jumped into problem solving it. How do we get things quieter? So when somebody now says to me, oh, it's been quieter, but that's probably just me. No, what that is, is I heard you. I finally was being aware of the problem. And I stepped up to do something. And I'm taking flat for doing that as well. So this three week period of it being quieter is not some kind of a facade. It's now I know the problem and we're trying to fix it. Now we know the problem with traffic and we're trying to fix it and we're talking to the police department. So don't act like I'm in elementary school and I don't know what's going on. We are problem solving to make this fix. And I think that we can make it fix. Is it going to make it go away? Is it going to make everybody happy? No, it may not, but it shouldn't be able to fit into a home business picture with some conditions. And that's what we're asking for. Okay. Now to visit. Come in and look at the house. Come and look at the yard child at any time of the day or night. And then tell me that we have dogs out. I don't think that's what you're going to find. Okay. Last call for public comments. Come on. You need to come back up to the table. Thank you. I just got a question. I'm not sure if I understand the process. What's the suggestion that the contractor here that should contact the residents that is in this room? No, there is a required provider notification that is part of this hearing process, which is a letter by mail notifying property owners who have property. That's just the subject property or is directly across the street from those folks to get a letter, but just following procedure for it here. Okay. No, no, we're suggesting the contractor has been contacted by the resident, but I was wondering if you have any I'm just going to say that it's really outside of the bounds of why we're here tonight. That's strictly about the hearing. There's state mandates. Okay. Any other members of the public? All done. Hi. I think what some neighbors have come to find out and what Susan might have been referring to was the temporary events permit, which I believe requires that neighbors within 500 feet of the property that's going to hold the event are supposed to be notified. And with the first one that was approved, we were not. You want to speak to that, Matt? My understanding is that's correct. The request was made with not enough time for the notification to happen. Got it. Okay. So noted. That is not done by planning a zoning. It's not a part of the DRV oversight, but I was so noted. Thank you. Anyone else? So it's now four. I'm going to close AP 23-0062. Thank you all. So we're going to go into a deliberative session now, which is basically a private session, where the DRV will discuss everything that happened in tonight's hearing, all the other applications as well. And we will be rendering opinions. It's anticipated that we're going to render an opinion that you can call planning a zoning and find out what our opinion was tomorrow morning. We do have, by state law, we do have the ability to, I think it's 45 days, 40 to take up to 45 days. We still don't do that. I don't anticipate that we'll do that tonight, but at the end of the day, we have that option. Okay. Is the deliberative session like a strategy session? Yeah, it is exactly a session. It's just, it's just, it's called a deliberative session now for some legal reason. But why isn't that in the public's question the legal version? Yeah. So the development for people are hearing process, plus education, plus education boards and provides are enabled in the statute to utilize private order discussions to grasp the opinions that you've developed for people. For the decision rendering, is it just, is there a rationale for this? The decision includes finding this out, which is why Google, Google is not fine. Okay, everyone will say it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's going back to the gorl风 develai Yes Foundations of the town staff and advisory board have required a comment on this application by the rules of development by law. And I've heard and really considered that that's when we presented the public hearing of the number 822 on the RIT 21-18D to residential road manager application. Thank you, John. Is there a second? All second. Okay, thank you, Nate. Any discussion? Hearing none, yay or nay. Paul. Yay. John Helgar. Yay. Dr. Riley is refused. Nate Andrews. Yay. The chair is a yay. Four in favor, none opposed. Motion carries. Is there a motion for DP 23-03? Yes. I'll make a motion. Here we go. Okay, as authorized by WDB 6.6.3, I spot Riley moved that the Williston Development Review Board have been reviewed, the application submitted, and all accompanying materials, including the recommendations of the town staff and the advisory board, required a comment on this application by the development Williston Development by law. And having heard and really considered the testimony presented at the public hearing of November 8, 2022, accept the recommendations for DP 23-03 and authorize this application to move forward to growth management. Thank you, Scott. Is there a second? Second. John Helgar. Seconds it. Is there any further discussion? Hearing none, yay or nay. Paul. Yay. Yay. John. Yay. John. Yay. Yay. Chair is a yay. Five in favor, none opposed. Motion carried. Is there a motion for DP 23-04? Yes. As authorized by WDB 6.6.3, I, Nathan Andrews, moved that the Williston Development Review Board have been reviewed, the application submitted, and all accompanying materials, including the recommendations of the town staff and the advisory board, required a comment on this application by the Williston Development by law. And having heard and really considered the testimony presented at the public hearing of November 8th, 2022, accept the recommendations for DP 23-04, and authorize this application to move forward to growth management with the following modifications to the recommendations to motion. Two, B will be stricken in this entirety and replaced with four option, one B, building access drive located outside of the sidewalk, set back on the site plan. The DRV and staff refer option, one B. Okay, thank you, Nate. Is there a second? I'll second. Scott, seconded. Any discussion? Hearing none, yay or nay. Paul? Yay. Yay. John? Yay. Scott? Yay. Nate? Yay. Chair is a yay. Five in favor, none opposed. Motion carries. Is there a motion for DP 23-05? As authorized by WBB 6.6.3, I John, I'm going to go over the goals of the bill for having reviewed the allegations that it all came to the bill, including the recommendations of the town staff and the vital report of the prior comment on this application by the wills of the bill by law. And I've heard and really considered the testimony presented at the public hearing on November 8th, 2020, except for recommendations for DP 23-05 and authorized this application to move forward to discretionary permanent review. We're going to add a recommendation number four that says the application shall include within the private driveways design, a lane-designated pedestrian pledge by civil review. Thank you, John. Is there a second? I'll second. Scott, seconded. Any discussion? Hearing none, Gay or nay, Paul? Yeah. Yeah. John? Yeah. Scott? Hey? Yeah. Chair Zia, five in favor, now opposed? Motion carries. Is there a motion to approve the minutes of October 25th, 2022? Yeah, I'll make a motion to approve the minutes of October 25th, 2022, Asbrick. Thank you, Scott. Is there a second? No second. John? I'll second. Any discussion? Yeah, you're nay. Paul? Yeah. I'm Hamilton. Yeah. Scott, Riley? Chris? Yeah. Chair Zia, five in favor, now opposed? Any other business to bring forth for tonight's PRB? Very good. Yeah. You said that the next meeting is two weeks is November 22nd. That's the Tuesday of the next meeting. I was thinking why don't we ask that? I think that's correct. It is. I just want to make sure that we got a call on the next meeting because it becomes a trouble. That's a problem. That is possible. I may not be here for that. But I think I've got to go to the possible. Okay, John, what's your status? I'm not leaving until Wednesday afternoon. So you're here. I'm not leaving until Wednesday afternoon. It's Tuesday of the next meeting. I'll just start with your remote. Your remote, thank you very much, is that it? Yeah. Okay, I'm here. What do we have for the next meeting? I'm going to speak for the next four minutes. A lot for the various subdivisions right now. That's a prior one. Yes. Okay, I'm going to speak to myself on that. As a DW's relationship with Ireland, we're right now in the middle of the fourth. So I don't know what's next for you to do about it. I'll be careful about the long term. Okay. So the 15 days this next Monday, there'll be shrinkage on the new set. But I think it's close to the end of the week. I think it's going to be quick and brief. I just don't feel ready for this day in Ireland. Our relationship with Ireland's development arm has grown. Yeah, in the 29th, I thought it was going to be a good road trip. I think it's going to be a good road trip. So I'll use the meeting. Paul, can you make it? Yeah, Paul, are you available? Oh yeah, I'll be here. Okay. So we just have to bring in the tree. So I have to reach out to Dave Turner, make sure he's around. Do you have an alternate right now? I'll do a, I'll do a, I'll figure out who's around. Who's on the grazer? I don't know, I don't know. Who's the only one who's on the grazer? So, Jill. Oh, Jill? You might surprise her. I'll call her. I'll call her. Yeah, okay, is there a motion to adjourn? Second? Yes. All in favor? Yes. Aye. Thank you all.