Our next job is to assign the individual spin systems to specific residues along the polypeptide chain. So, now this is done from the nosy spectrum. How? Let us look at this here. Here we have the polypeptide chain running from the N terminal to the C terminal here. So, this is residue I NHC alpha CO, NHC alpha CO, NHC alpha CO, NHC alpha CO and that. We have written here about 4 residues, 4th residue up to the NH1 is written and the same thing continues elsewhere also. Now, what does the nosy we make use of the nosy spectrum here to identify the correlations between the individual residues and this the nosy spectrum as I showed you the cross peaks will depend upon what is the distance between the 2 protons. So, we will have to see what are the short distances between the protons along the polypeptide chain between the sequential residues or between short range residues. So, that is typically classically indicated in this slide there. So, this is again taken from the book of Vitric that is indicated here NMR of Proteins and Nucleic Acids. You can see here now there are some lines which are indicated by thick arrows and there are some which are indicated by dotted arrows. Now, what are these thick arrows indicating? The thick arrows indicating the near neighbor interactions here. So, let us say for example from the NH of the residue I plus 1, I see to the NH of the residue I and that is indicated as alpha n. From the NH I see also to the sorry NH to the alpha n and the NH to the NH of the previous residue this is indicated as dNn then you have NH to the beta protons this is indicated as d beta n. So, d beta n, alpha n, Nn these are the near neighbor interaction the sequential immediately after the next residue. Notice you do not see to the right side you only see to the previous residue. So, from the I plus 1 to I only you see therefore this provides your directionality whereas of course the Nn, Nn this connectivity this can go either way. So, this can go from here to here or it can go from here to here as well whereas the alpha n and the beta n these ones are only on to the residue which is previous to the amide proton which you are looking at. So, you will see I plus 1 to I only for the alpha n and to the beta n now and there are also other distances which are indicated by the this dotted lines. Let us look at those ones there now from this alpha proton and this is the really long chain one here alpha beta I plus 3 a residue which is so far away in the residue. You might see this one under certain circumstances I will show you where these ones will be seen. You can see from the alpha proton here to the NH of the residue which is I plus 2 you can see that one also. Then from this alpha proton there are three other ones which are going one goes to the alpha n I plus 3 NH of I plus 3 to shows to the alpha of I and similarly alpha n I plus 4 the NH of the fourth residue shows to the alpha of the I residue. So, this is there that is indicated by this symbols there alpha n I I plus 4 means N of I plus 4 to the alpha of I alpha and I I plus 3 mean N of I plus 3 or the amide proton amide proton of I plus 3 to the alpha proton of I and likewise then you have NN I I plus 2. NN I plus 2 means the two amide protons I and I plus 2 then you have alpha N I plus 2 there is N of I plus 2 to the alpha of I so these are the short distances which are indicated these ones are less than 5 angstroms and the same thing is listed here. So, at this depends now on the secondary structure in the polypeptide chain different segments of the protein chain will have different kinds of secondary structures. We discussed about the various structures earlier so what sort of a distances are present in these individual structures suppose I take the alpha helix then the alpha N distance is 3.5 alpha N I I plus 2 is 4.4 alpha N I 2 I plus 3 is 3.4 to I plus 4 is 4.2 and N is 2.8 this is very interesting see this is a very short distance and 2.8 is the short distance alpha N is 3.4 is the short distance for the other two are little longer. Now NN I I plus 2 is 4.2 and beta N is 2.5 to 4.1 this is a longer range here alpha beta I 2 I plus 3 is 2.4 to 4.4 so therefore depending upon what is the secondary structure if you have an alpha helix this is the kind of a distance is which are present. Now if you take the 3.10 helix this is very similar to this except that alpha N I I plus 2 is somewhat shorter which is 4.4 here and is 3.8 here and alpha N I 2 I plus 3 is very similar and you do not have this alpha N I 2 I plus 4 because it is a 3.10 helix and this distance is also similar NN is also similar and this is also similar this is also similar 2.5 and this one is also similar and 2.5 3.1 you may see this sort of a peak as well. So that is how you get these peaks in the helices now compared to that what are the kind of a distances you have in the beta structures if you have the anti-parallel beta strand you see alpha N distance is very short d alpha this is very only 2.2 strength therefore you will see this as a very strong peak and the NN distance is far so 4.3 and you will see the beta N distance also is a wide range 3.2 to 4.5 and what does this range come from this comes from the torsion angles along the side chain. So there is a variation in this distance because of the torsion angles in the side chain depending upon how the side chain torsion angles vary you will have a certain range of distances there but this is a very interesting distance if the beta is characterized very well by this alpha N distance and the beta parallel also has this very short distance and this one is slightly in this case this is better than this one there but other ones are also similar. So from this you cannot distinguish whether it is the parallel beta strand or the anti-parallel beta strand from this basis of this NOE is often this is difficult there. Now if you have a turn that is the turns also we come across and there you will have this distance is 3.4, 3.2, 3.6, 3.1 all of these are observable and this is a very interesting distance you have this 2.6 or 2.4 that is the NN distance. So the NN distance is present in this turn see this one is very similar to the helical regions there but this is not present in the case of the beta sheet the helical region you will find this and you will also see this in the turn there. And now beta type turn 1 we indicated that different types of turns and you will see that turn 1 has this characteristic features but the turn 2 has different features. This particular distance here is very short in turn 2 and this is more like the beta sheet beta strand anti-parallel beta sheet or parallel beta sheet this distance is very short in therefore that will discriminate between the 2 types of the turns in this structure. So and then you will also have this distance alpha n i i plus 2 this these are seen in the 3.6, 3.3 and you will not find this in the beta sheet structure. You may find sometimes in the 3.10 helix and you may not find it also in the alpha helix as well because the 4.4 is little longer compared to the this distance is there. But turn 1 and turn 2 you will find this distance very short and alpha n i 2 i plus 3 this is also observable 3.1 to 4.2, 3.8 to 4.7. So you will see this distinction is not very easy here from this but this is the very characteristic discriminating distance between the 2 structures. And with regard to this one here the n n distance, n n distance is much closer but that is not so in the case of the turn 2, turn 1 it is very similar very observable similar to the alpha helix but this one is not observable. So therefore you will have this sort of a distance is there. So 3.6 to 4.0 this is the beta n distance, beta n distance also will be very observable. This is a certain range there so you may see you may not see depending upon the side chain torsion angles wherever the side chain torsion angle is such that the distance becomes more than 4.5 angstroms you may not see it. So therefore these are not definitive that you will see that but where there is a clear short distance indicated those ones you will always see. So this is the kind of a distance pattern what we have and that is extremely useful in determining the structures. Now here is a typical example as to what sort of patterns you will get. If you have this cosy spectrum here you have this nosy spectrum will show you the sequential correlations there. These are the sequential ones immediately after and this range is for the amide protons to the alpha protons and then to the beta protons here until here this is the alpha and this is the beta and this is the one particular region which is taken to indicate what sort of peaks you will get. So here you will have you have the two peaks there one is to its own alpha this will be present in the cosy and here the sequential peak which is in the nosy spectrum. Again you have two peaks there alpha to its own alpha and then to the sequential same here same here and then of course here you see to the beta proton here as well. So and then here you will see to the beta proton here and this is of course a single peak here present and this is something different it is not coming from this NH proton but coming from somewhere else. And then you see this here or the alpha proton itself is shifted up field so much here and it can happen on the certain situations you will see the alpha proton itself is going so high and here it is alpha to the beta and then you have also to the two gammas here typically you will see such things in the long side chain ones which are there. Now using this one can do a sequential walk along the polypeptide chain. This is chemically indicated here suppose you have a helix we said the NN distance is very small we have the N this is the diagonal here the diagonal these are the amide protons the four amide protons there and you see the connections you have a connection here and you have two connections there and two one connection here. So therefore you can see you can walk along the helix in this manner the helix is indicated there.  So you see this is the connection that is happening over the entire term the NH protons are here this is the NH-NH connectivities as I said the NH-NH connectivities do not have a directionality so they can go from one residue to the next residue in a particular direction any direction it can go so we cannot say here we are going from I to I minus 1 to I minus 2 and I minus 3 we may going I to I plus 1 I plus 2 I plus 3 as well so it can happen that way. So a particular place you will see two cross peaks there what is for example if I take here why are we seeing two cross peaks there we are doing the two cross peaks because it is showing to both the directions if I see here there are two cross peaks one here one there this is in one direction this is in the other direction okay so that is how you are establishing these connections walking along the polypropylene the lines which are drawn are showing a walk in one particular direction and this additional peak which is present here this actually is going in the other direction so that is how you get this in the helix you will get this sort of connections in the polypropylene chain.  Now you can either level it as i i minus 1 or i minus 2 or i plus 1 i and things like that. So that is the sequential connections which are shown in this cases here. So this is i plus 1 to i then to its own then to this say this one and you can go on from this to this and then you can go on. That is what is shown as the sequential connectivity in the alpha NH, alpha region there. Now this actually shows the kinds of short distances you will get in the experimental spectrum considering a certain stretch of amino acid residues. Let us say you have this stretch of amino acid residues 1 to 7. There are 7 residues which are let us say you consider this here and you see what sort of peaks you will get. If it is a alpha helix you will see from here to here there are three continuous peaks which are present there from here to here, here to here and here to here. These continuously three peaks alpha n i to i plus 4 how many will be there i to i plus 4. So that is from this to you are from here to here the next one there and the next one there. So this is the four residues which are present there. So therefore in the similarly alpha beat i to i plus 3 how many you will see i to i plus 3 how many you will get in the 7 residue stretch you will get 4 of them. So you will get 4 peaks there and alpha n i to i plus 3. So you will get again 4 peaks just as you have here 4 peaks you will also have 4 peaks there for the alpha helix and if you take nn i to i plus 2 then you will have 5 peaks there. That is indicated here you have 5 peaks there. The range I mean the what is shown here is from what residue to what residue for example this one is 5 to 7 then it is 4 to 6 then it is 3 to 5 then you have 2 to 4 then you have 1 to 3. So these are the i to i plus 2. Similarly you can draw these lines for these individual residues. So this is i to i plus 3 means 7 to 4 6 to 6 to 2 i plus 3 5 6 7. So i to i plus 3 7 6 5 4 so you go from this. So 7 to 4 6 to 3 5 to 2 and 4 to 1. So that is how you get this 4 here and even when you have i to i plus 4 you will have 7 to 3 7 to 3 6 to 2 5 to 1. So that is how you will have 3 peaks there. So in the same manner you can also draw these ones all these peaks you must have in order to be able to conclude what sort of a helix you had. You must have this whole stretch of connectivities in your nosy spectrum. You must after you establish the individual spin systems you must be able to establish these connections from the nitrogen the amide protons to the various side chain protons or the backbone protons. So for the 3 tan helix you will have this sort of a pattern. For the turn you will have this sort of a pattern. See in the turn 1 and turn 2 these are quite distinct. So these are extremely useful. These patterns are extremely useful to be able to identify what sort of a turn you have and these are two additional terms which are slight variations of these ones there and you have a half term. So these are slight variations of these terms but nonetheless you have this distinctive patterns here for the secondary structures and whether the beta ones you will have you will have only this NN connectivity there and of course you will have the sequential alpha n that is not that is not you will have the beta you will have the alpha n sequential connectivity is there. This is the whole range of sequential connectivity will be present in the case of beta anti-parallel as well as parallel beta sheets you will have these ones there and of course you will also have these ones in these areas because you will see this sequential connectivity is sequential connectivity these are the immediate neighbors. These are for the immediate neighbors and you will have these ones there and this is how you obtain the sequence specific assignment first. From the immediate neighbors you obtain the sequence specific assignments and there will be peaks left in your spectrum. On the basis of that you try and identify these sort of connections to figure out what sort of a secondary structure the particular stretch of amino acid residues belongs to. So you first establish these ones there all the sequential connectivities and after that you look for additional peaks which are present in the nosy spectrum they will establish these very characteristic peaks for the secondary structures for the alpha helix the beta 3 tan helix the turn 1 and so on. Now this is a typical nosy spectrum of a protein this is a spectrum which is relatively old because this is not a very good spectrum but nonetheless this is one of the very early ones and therefore it is important to show this but it shows the connections between the different residues. It brings out the point as to what sort of a peaks we will see we will see the long side chain ones or the long range connectivities that is the point which you are trying to make here. So we already talked about the short range ones and the near neighbour ones now we talk about the long range ones. Suppose you have a polypeptide chain which is going like this and you have A, B, C, D protons here and the A proton chemical shift is here the B proton chemical shift is there C proton chemical shift is here and D proton chemical shift is here. Notice we have already identified the chemical shifts of the individual protons through the sequential connection procedure. So now you show which ones are where any other peak which is present we must be able to establish a correlation between the two protons which are connected by that peak because you already have all the assignments not only the backbone but also the side chains. All the side chain spin systems and the assignments are made therefore we will be able to identify those peaks which are present. Now what sort of a peaks we will get for the long range interactions. Long range suppose the polypeptide chain folds in this manner. The say in elongated manner it is written that way extended manner. Now suppose the polypeptide chain folds in this manner then what happens is these two protons come close by in space. When that is the case then you will see a cross peak here between those two protons. If the polypeptide chain folds like this then these protons come close by in space therefore you will see a cross peak between these two. On the other hand if it folds like this you will see the short distance between these two protons and you may see a cross peak between these two. So these are three different types of the structures leveled as i, j, k and depending upon what is the nature of the fold in the polypeptide chain you will see peaks between different protons along the polypeptide chain. Therefore we call this as a fingerprint of the structure of the molecule. The nosy spectrum is called as the fingerprint of the structure of the molecule. Now another point you notice here is that the different peaks are different intensities. Why is it so? Because the distances are different. Although the protein is folding and coming to a certain distance there but the distance themselves may be varying. It may be 2.5 angstroms or 3.5 angstroms or 4.5 angstroms. So depending upon the way the protein is folding you may have different distances and you will see therefore different intensities for the different cross peaks but that is a structural information. We can extract this structural information and use this to calculate the structure of the molecule and this is what is the step which is indicated in this slide. Now you have once you have the particular intensity what we do is we convert that distance convert that intensity into a distance and we will say this distance must lie between these two limits. This is the lower limit and this is the upper limit. We do not say that the particular distance has to be exactly 2.5 and 2.6 angstroms like that. We will say the distance Rij this is between the two protons i and j should be between this lower limit and this lower limit. It may be between 2.5 to 3 angstroms or 3 to 3.5 angstroms. You can classify this distance ranges depending upon the confidence we have with respect to the intensity measurements. There can be errors in the intensity measurements and that will determine what sort of a range you want to specify. If it is a weak peak then you will generally want to give a longer range like 3 to 4 angstroms or 3.5 to 4.5 angstroms. That is if the peak is weak but if the peak is stronger then you will narrow down the distance range. It must be between the range of 2.5 angstroms 2.5 to 3 or 3 to 3.5 and so forth. So you collect a larger number of such distances. So in a polypeptide chain if it has 100 amino acid residues you will have thousands of peaks. Of course several of them will be short range several of them will be sequential and there will be many other ranges but however we include here all the distances not only the sequential the short range ones and the long range ones all are included. Now what is the next step? The next step is we want to calculate a structure which is consistent with all these interpreted on distances. These are called as a distance restraints and your structure must satisfy these distance restraints. An initial model may not satisfy all of these. You will have to optimize your structure so that the distance constraints are satisfied. So therefore what is done is you define an energy function here and which contains 2 parts. One is this EF part this is the standard one which contains all the short range distance the stereo I mean the steric interances and things like that. There should be no steric contacts there. So therefore you take care of all of those bond angles, bond distances and things like that. All of those included in this particular function here and these are the basic energy determining term and then the NOE distance which you calculate this is included as a separate potential function here E energy E NOE and that is defined in this manner. These are defined with these harmonic potentials here and you have a particular force constant here. You define it as a spring. You have a violation of upper lower bound is given by this Rijl minus Rij to the square it is the force constant here and this is the violation of the distance for the upper limit. So Rmn to the Rmn is the upper limit variation here. So you run this through the entire set of distance constraints you have got. If all the distances are satisfied this NOE will come to 0 and this is what you want to optimize. You want to optimize your model such that this E NOE comes down to 0. Often you may not achieve that complete 0 but it will converge to a particular small value and that is when you can actually say okay why this is acceptable range. That also determines to what accuracy your structure is determined to what confidence level you have the structure and how much are the statistics of the distance is violated in your structure and how much is the range of the violation. And this is your document in a particular kind of a table. You say okay NMR restraints are in the structure calculation. You have the intra residue distance is 419, sequential distance is 475, medium range i minus j less than 5 angstrom these are 302, long range i minus greater than 5 this is 407. You have hydrogen bonds also indicated as a distance and therefore you have a total distance range of 1655. You also have dihedral angle restraints this actually comes from your coupling constant measurements you have these ones there and these are the other ones which are with regard to the geometry of the ones you have the bonds and the angles and other improper distances these ones are also indicated. Now at the end of the day after you have done these calculations you have to see how much is the variation violation are they all satisfied or all they are within the certain range RMST from experimental restraints you see the violations are very very small and if this is the kind of range what were then you say okay it is acceptable. So you consider the RMST for all what happens is typically you may not find one structure you may find a set of structures typically you may find about 5 to 10 structures which satisfy these and there is a certain why there is a range of these violations there. So therefore you put this plus minus and you have all the backbone atoms if you consider what is the RMST among these different structures you have selected your 10 structures and for the residue is 2 to 95 how much is the variation among the backbone atom positions and that you say you calculate the RMSTs all heavy atoms is this much okay and then of course you have to verify this your phi psi torsion angles you measure from this structure in terms of the Ramachandran plot.  Now in practice how we actually do the so called distance geometry algorithm which we discussed earlier also in some way that you start from a polypeptide chain structure which is similar typically like this okay you start from many different initial structures because you do not want your calculation to be biased by the choice of your initial structure okay. Then you have this 6 different initial structure for a particular protein and you go through the various steps of calculations intermediate steps here and you see how the protein is folding and then you see in the end all these structures are coming out to be similar okay there are many structures which are overlaid here and they are all coming very similar and therefore the RMSTs of these are very very small and therefore you see your distance constraint is quite good and you are able to obtain a unique structure from these constraint set okay. So I think now we can stop here we go into the next class with regard to the more complicated structure determinations more complex proteins stop here.


I love talking about this stuff, but I'm fully aware that some of the things we're gonna talk about today, it's gonna be a lot of information. And so that's one of the reasons we did work really hard and we even changed rooms to make sure you had the slides. Because this is something that, even by the end of it, I know some of you are still gonna be like, oh my goodness, that's a lot of information, and it is. So the first slide I'm gonna go to is just a little bit, only briefly, a little bit more about who I am. That was a great introduction, thank you. I am an attorney by training, I'm a non-practicing attorney because I found myself living in New Mexico, like our previous speaker Alonso, with my active duty Air Force husband. And as a consequence, I couldn't be licensed to practice law. So it's not because I've done anything wrong or I'm unethical, I'm just in a situation where professionally I need to abide by the rules and the ethics of my profession. So I'm not a practicing attorney. But what that means for you is I'm not here to try and get clients. I have a lot of attorneys and law firms that work, that I am a vendor for, that I work with. I help them with content, helping them to educate their clients. Making legally is easy to understand. And I come to WordCamps, and I give you guys information about how to protect yourselves. So if you ask a question and I answer one of the following, it depends. You're gonna need to talk to your attorney about that, or you're gonna go and need to see a CPA about that.  Those are genuine answers that I'm giving and that, honestly, most attorneys would give you in that situation. So just be aware of that. That download link is on this second slide. It's also on the final slide of the presentation. That's where you're gonna find a handout that covers the kind of big points of today's session. It's only a one-page handout, but it's jam-packed with information. That's my website, where if you wanna get into touch with me, that's one of the best ways. My company does do 50% of its work pro bono for screened, non-profit organizations. So if that's you, or that's an organization you work with, you can get in touch with us for that program through that. If you happen to do work for attorneys or law firms and you're looking for a content vendor, come talk to us about that. All right, so the first thing we're gonna talk about is what is liability? So before we get into the kind of nitty gritty of that, how many of you are developers? How many of you own an agency? How many of you own your own websites? Okay, so that's most people. I often ask that because it helps me to make sure I'm pitching this the right way. So liability is the state of being responsible for something, especially by law. Very often it's going to be something that's either enshrined specifically in legislation or it's something that arises as a result of a contract. So liability is, it's kind of agnostic. It is neither, it is not naturally negative, I guess is what I'm trying to say. So when I talk about the risks of liability or liability arising, in and of itself, that's just a fact of business. You're gonna have situations that are gonna give rise to risk, just that's the nature of business. But the question is what can you do to mitigate those risks and you have to do a kind of a cost-benefit analysis of whether or not that's worth the effort and that's gonna be a decision that you need to make in conjunction with your advisory team and that's gonna include an attorney, an accountant, perhaps an insurance broker and others. So today this was billed as five liability risks of building a website. I've given this talk though under a number of numbers and the way I decided to do it today was I'll give you five but I'll give you some bonuses as well. But wait, wait, there's more and there's always more. There's one thing that's not on this list that after some conversations I've had at other work camps, I think I may well add. Now this list is on that handout with a little bit more detail so that's a good reason to grab the handout but is actually accessibility. So I won't be discussing accessibility and the liability risks that can arise under the Americans for Disabilities Act, the ADA in this talk at all but I want you to know that I do know it exists and I do know it's a thing. At this stage I haven't felt like I've had the background knowledge to be able to address that adequately in a talk like this so that's why I haven't. So I wanna make sure that what I'm talking about is good information for you guys, right? So we're gonna go through each of those and talk about them in a little more detail. So the first one that we're gonna talk about is misrepresentation. So misrepresentation and fraud is a really dicey era. Now about a third to a half of you told me that you're building your own websites and so this is not gonna necessarily apply to you as much as those who are running agencies or those who are developers but it still is a helpful kind of basic principle. So the first thing is you have to be careful as a business owner not to commit fraud or to misrepresent yourself. Now that might seem like common sense but it's amazing how easy that can happen or easily it can happen. So the first one is and you know I love one of the things I absolutely love about this community is sometimes there's this like okay well we don't know how but we'll figure it out and I love that about this community but as long as you're being up front with the people paying you to do things to say like Alonzo did in the last session this is the first time we are making a website with Gutenberg and he talked to me about that last night he told his client that it was the first time he didn't represent that they had been doing this for years. Well number one Gutenberg hasn't existed for that long but that's kind of important. So represent yourself honestly. Okay you know what you know you are as qualified as you are qualified you have the certifications you have as soon as you start saying you have certifications you don't as soon as you start misrepresenting the skills experience that you have then you can run into problems. That goes for any business but I think it certainly goes when you're starting to talk about your ability to code in certain languages to build certain products to turn around things in a certain length of time. Now these are important that it's important that we're honest because they can give rise to you being sued for breach of contract a lot of the time. So next we're gonna talk about is misrepresentation so that's not just misrepresentation of you but misrepresentation of like guaranteeing results. So if you promise to someone that you're gonna produce a website for them that they will never have to touch again right? It's out of the box good to go never need to worry about it you're gonna have a problem. You're opening yourself up to get sued. The next thing is actually who is doing the work. So one of the things that I find that agencies and there's more agencies and I don't mean to pick on agencies but agencies sometimes have a tendency to kind of talk about the team and I get that and there's good business reasons for that but just be aware that some of the time when you sign a contract with especially when you're dealing with a company that's a little more savvy they may put stipulations as to whether or not you can hire subcontractors in that contract. So if you misrepresent who is doing the work and you are actually hiring subcontractors when the contract that you've signed bars that then absolutely you can be found in breach of that contract and have to pay a lot of money and have to finish a project in a new way. I have to tell you clients don't like it if they feel like they've been lied to. So if you have a team that involves subcontractors make sure that original contract allows for that negotiated in the original contract.  We'll talk about that a little more but do me a favor if you're signing a contract with someone make sure you get your own legal advice on that contract don't trust their lawyer to tell you that it looks after you, right? All right so sorry that final one is referral fee arrangements that's gonna impact some industries more than others.  So kind of make you know have a think about that and decide how open and transparent you're willing to be. Next one entity choice, how many people in the room are a sole proprietor, an LLC, an S corp, a C corp, okay I got no C corp so that's not that big a shock in this room. All right, not all legal entities are equal. I wanna ask the sole proprietors and you don't have to answer aloud. How many of you can afford to lose your house? If you're a sole proprietor and you are really honestly doing any kind of business, your registered for state sales tax I wanna encourage you to go and chat with both an attorney and a CPA about that and potentially the liability that you're opening yourself and your family up to by operating as a sole proprietor. In very rare situations I would say that that's the right move but in the majority it's absolutely not the way to protect yourself.  Truly for the cost it takes to set one up and maintain it. It is so minimal compared to the issues that you might run into down the road especially when you're dealing with just protecting yourself. So if you have a sole proprietorship there is no such thing as the corporate veil. So that's where I'm talking about you could potentially lose your house. You can also run into issues with the IRS if you don't keep your business money and your personal money separate from each other. So even if under an LLC you're filing a schedule 10 at tax time you still just as you are with a sole proprietorship you still need to make sure that you can show that you're not commingling those funds. All right I want to say much more about that. Protection of personal assets is one of the big reasons why encourage people to know what business entity they have and know why you have it. It doesn't you know no skin off my nose either way just know what you have and why you have it. The pros and the cons because there are pros and cons to every different kind of business entity. I say an attorney and a CPA. Attorneys are not licensed to tell you about tax issues. CPAs are not licensed to tell you about legal issues. I love the Small Business Administration. They are amazing at giving advice for people starting businesses but they also cannot advise you as to what type of entity to start. They can give you a lot of information about it but they can't specifically tell you what kind to start or what would be best in your circumstances. You need people in your corner to help you with this. All right the next one so up to number three is illegal marketing. How many of you are 100% sure that you are marketing legally?  Okay. Are we got some people that are not sure if they are or not? Is anyone doing no marketing? Are you doing no marketing? Cause honestly the only people who could be 100% are the ones that are doing absolutely none. Now that doesn't mean that I could foresee in this room and at WordCamps you would have people who know enough about their business and know enough of what's going on to know that they're being 100% legal at their marketing and I hope that you'll be a little bit further along the way at the end of this. So the first one is client testimonials. How many of you collect client testimonials? I would encourage all of you to ask your clients if you're building websites for other people or if you're providing a service to other people ask for testimonials but there's an extra thing I want you to ask for and that is permission to publish that testimonial with their name attached. If you're gonna publish a testimonial with their name attached you need to have written permission to do so and the reason for that is this thing called publicity rights under copyright and we'll talk a little bit more about I'm gonna do a full session on copyright tomorrow but this is, we'll have a couple of sections on it today. So even if they've given you, they've sent it to you that doesn't mean they've necessarily given you permission to use it in your advertising and promotion. If you'll give me, you're welcome to ask all the questions you like at the end if that's okay. So it can be in writing, it can just be that you send them an email back and say do I have your permission to use this on my website or on social media? If they then say yes, that would be fine. You're good to go. It doesn't have to be complicated but you can't just use someone's words even if they have provided them to you unless you've received some kind of permission, okay? The second one is special issues with email marketing. Now I know GDPR is a big thing not gonna talk about today if you don't know what GDPR is, you will need to learn if you are making your website available at all to people who are in the European Union areas but this specifically relates to the Can Span Act. Do we all know what the Can Span Act is? Okay, some of you do, some of you maybe don't. So the Can Span Act has very specific rules in the US for what you need to be doing if you are doing email marketing. So I wanna encourage you to do a little bit of reading about that. It's gonna include things like you need to include an easy way for people to unsubscribe. If you're sending out unsolicited emails you need to be very clear that is A, an unsolicited email and B, that you're advertising to them. I have written multiple articles specifically on this topic. You can find links to those on the website but if you're having trouble finding something send me an email and I'll connect you with those. The third one is portfolio materials. If you do some work for a client and you provide them with that work, especially if it's done under a work for hire contract you don't automatically have the right to include it in your portfolio. If you create a website for a client you sign over the copyright of that website to the client. You don't automatically have the right to use it in your portfolio. It's really important that you make sure your contracts include clauses that talk about your ability to utilize that example in your portfolio. Just make sure it's in the contract so that you're good to go and there's never any issue with you using it either as a portfolio example or I guess claiming the moral right. Although under US law there isn't such a thing necessarily as a moral right. Under Canadian law it's enshrined as it is under certain aspects of copyright in the UK. But this idea that you have the kind of moral right to say I did that. That's often the difference in the content realm between signing up as a ghost writer and signing up as under your own byline. All right, let's keep moving. As I said, contracts. So what's really problematic is no contract or a badly written contract. I would argue, here's the thing, having a written contract does not actually mean you don't have a contract. Are we all with me? Sometimes the verbal conversations you have and the emails you exchange constitute an implied contract. In fact, some of the emails you exchange may actually constitute parts of a contract even if it's not a formal written document. In order to prevent issues down the road, the reason why I know everybody wants to think of lawyers as annoying and expensive, but actually they are an amazing tool for you to help protect your business. And we can talk about ways to kind of make that a cost effective way to do things. So, as I say there, there's a false economy in avoiding using lawyers sometimes. So too, be careful of finding a contract online, copying and pasting it and just saying, oh, I can edit that. Because sometimes your state, every state, especially in the US, has very specific rules and regulations. And so sometimes what might be appropriate in one state, it's gonna be the wrong wording in another. So that's where you're gonna wanna talk to a lawyer. What you can do is find attorneys who sell templates online. And now they have to be an attorney. Please, please, please. There's a lot of people who sell them who should not be even writing them. I don't even sell them because I believe it's unethical as someone who's not currently licensed to practice. But I have clients who do sell them, who are attorneys. And what you can do is buy an appropriate template for your industry, take it to a local attorney and have them edit it. That can be incredibly cost effective for you. So you get the industry expertise along with the local expertise. And then you get something that is customized for you. So that's a way to save a little bit of money. Contracts like your website are not set and forget. You're gonna need to have them reviewed every couple of years. All right, that's my like, don't mess with me face. Okay? I have the copyright just as an example. The copyright for all the photographer there, she has given me written permission, a commercial license to use this image. And I say that intentionally because if you are on your website, go to Google and find an image that somebody was discussing at lunch and throw that up on your website. If that image has been registered with the US copyright, although it does not need to be, throw that out there. You can be subject to statutory damages of up to $30,000 with up to $150,000 if it's willful infringement. You knew or should have known that that was under copyright. It's really important that every piece of content you publish has a clear identification of copyright ownership. Now here's the thing, credit is not enough. I'm not talking about attribution, I'm talking about licensing. Finally, if you are having clients provide you content that you're using to build a website, consider making sure that your contracts include indemnity clauses and waivers so that you are not held responsible as the website builder or developer for that copyright infringement that they're conducting. I really want to encourage you, if you have clients that have a tendency to do that, invest some time in education because it could save you time later. And hopefully over time, you will get to know those writers that are out there. I do a lot of work for a website, a photographer's website, legal issues to do with photography and that's something I send people to a lot and she happens to be one of my clients. Okay, so privacy and data breaches. This is gonna be one that potentially could give rise to a lot of liability issues, especially both just under the general kind of breaches that we've seen lately in the lawsuits that have come out of them, but also in relation to GDPR. So damages from a client and recovery of damages from you if the client gets sued. So if you've provided, you're the one who's committed copyright infringement, put some stuff on their website and given it to them, then they can turn around and add you to that lawsuit. And you don't want that to happen. Privacy policies are gonna be something that I would encourage you to make sure that every single one of your websites has. I would really encourage you, if your website at all is available for visitors in the EU to make sure that is GDPR compliant. I want to encourage you to have errors and omissions clauses and consider errors and omissions insurance if you're doing any kind of professional work that specifically involves privacy. Once again, look at indemnity clauses for your contracts on the matter of data breaches. And if you're doing a lot of this work, those of you who are gonna know and hopefully will already have this kind of insurance, I really wanna challenge those, be very careful if you have a medical professional who wants you to build their website and they want any kind of personal biometric data collected on their website. You're running into a whole bunch of issues with HIPAA. If you know what you're doing, great. But if you're even a little bit unsure that you know what you're doing, honestly, like walk away, it's just not worth the risk. Unless of course they're not collecting any data at all, but even still be careful. All right, so we have three more left. I'll get through these fairly quickly because I wanna have time for questions. So once again, data loss and infrastructure damage, consider the importance of your insurance, particularly professional liability insurance. You have a responsibility both, actually pretty much under the law of every Western country. You have a responsibility to mitigate data loss and infrastructure loss. So infrastructure loss can be as simple as a server issue. Can be as simple as someone coming along, someone who works for you, spilling a cup of water on a computer. I mean, those could constitute a form of infrastructure loss. So this is where insurance can come in handy. Once again, making sure your contracts cover these things in indemnity causes and errors and omissions causes. All right, second to last area. We have groundless legal claims. So just talked about all this stuff and you know what? You may be doing absolutely everything right, but that doesn't mean that you might not be in a situation where someone sues you anyway.  Like it shouldn't happen, but it does. So I wanna encourage you to make sure that you have ways of approaching things like charge backs, making sure that your business collects appropriate information to be able to prove to companies like, you know, to your payment processes like Stripe and Square and PayPal that you have actually provided the services that you've charged someone for to prevent those charge backs. If you're selling a product, making sure your systems are robust enough for you to be able to prove that you've sold that ebook or you've sold that physical product. I wanna encourage you that although I don't believe that every customer is always right, if you need to yell at someone, don't yell at them first. Really exercise your strength. It can be very good for your business. I mean, this is both business advice and legal advice. Just don't yell at them in the first instance.  Try to be as gracious as you can because it can actually help you diffuse the situation and stop it ending up in that kind of groundless legal claim which costs money for everybody. Consider using cease and desist letters rather than going straight to a lawsuit. Once you have something like a cease and desist letter in your tool belt, so the first one you might have your attorney work up for you, but then you kind of have one in your tool belt that you can use as a template for future ones. And then finally, that's where professional liability insurance really comes in because they can defend you against those groundless claims. And for the cost of five or six or $700 a year, being able to defend you up to hundreds of thousands of dollars of legal costs, it's absolutely worth the cost. All right, a client gets sued and you are added as a respondent. So that's where you can be liable as a third party or your client sues another service provider like the host or something and the service provider adds you in a counter seat and says, no, no, no, it's not our fault. It's that person's fault because that's how they built the website. So just be aware that sometimes you can not have anything to do with what's happened and still end up getting pulled into things. So this is where this stuff is important. All right, as I go through this next section, feel free to ask questions as we go through these last couple of sections. So I'm gonna start with the assemblers and developers. I wanna encourage you to make sure you have a contract and it clearly details copyright ownership in the contract as well as those who has responsibility for the legitimacy and the kind of, it's clear of copyright ownership issues if they provide it to you. Have it drafted and or reviewed by an attorney. If your client provides a contract depending on the jurisdiction you're gonna wanna have that reviewed by your own counsel anyway. And then finally, indemnity clauses and liability waiver clauses should be included that are relevant to your industry and your business. Helen, you had a question? People have different names. So they even call themselves builders, website builders or website assemblers. That's just language. I've heard people at word camps used to describe themselves. Similarly, this is gonna apply to everyone but if you're doing work for other people be aware of default work for higher copyright. So what that means is sometimes if you're a service provider, you may think, oh well I created this therefore I own the copyright but sometimes the contract will specifically detail that it's a work for higher job which means that the copyright automatically transfers to the customer. So you just wanna be aware of that if you are someone who wants to maintain the intellectual property and the work that you're producing that that is detailed appropriately in the contract. Build your portfolio legally. I do believe client education is an investment and it's absolutely worth your time. If you're someone who's producing a lot of images consider whether or not registering those with the copyright office is potentially a good thing especially because of those statutory penalties of 30,000 and 150,000 for willful infringement. If you are somebody who is producing content please for your own sake and honestly for the sake of all of us defend your copyright, send the DCMA notices. Does everyone know what a DCMA notice is? Okay, so let me make sure I got this right. Digital copyright management. Oh, digital copyright millennium act. Okay, there we go, DCMA. I say the DCMA so often I don't normally say the name of the act out loud. Really what the DCMA notice does is tells the ISP of the website that they have some material that is copyrighted that they should not be using that they're committing copyright infringement and the ISP's responsibility is just to take that down until so you're not contacting the person themselves you're contacting the company that's hosting their website with a DCMA notice. A cease and desist notice is gonna be something that you send directly to the person who is or the company who is infringing on that copyright. There are also platform specific forms and requests. So, you know, most of the social media platforms have that form, just be aware some of them you're gonna need to do it two or three times. I have this ongoing battle with Instagram. My husband's a runner, probably two to three times a month, running magazine still as images because he takes great images of himself running, like training and stuff. I'm the one who does those reports for him on the basis of both publicity rights and copyright ownership because he's in the images and he's taken them for himself. And the amount of times I've had Instagram come back to me and say, oh no, no, no, we don't believe that. Like, no, like, so usually I have to write a whole paragraph and explain to them the difference between copyright and publicity rights and it is both. And you know, here's the original image and this is the time that we did it and this is the time they did it. It can be some work, they shouldn't be doing that. The, you know, whether or not they're an arbiter is a question that I have a problem. Either they're an arbiter or they're not. They can't be both. Finally, insurance doesn't limit liability. It's just really, really important to know. You're not getting insurance to limit your liability. You're getting insurance to protect you if that liability is found to exist. So it's there to help mitigate financial losses. It's there to help defend you should legal action be taken. Like interest rates and insurance premiums, sometimes the cost of consulting an attorney is the cost of doing business. It's something that I spend a lot of time saying to the WordPress community. I don't want you to be scared of talking to attorney. I don't want this to have scared you all. I just, it's more that opportunity to say, okay, what's the next step? How do we make sure we protect ourselves and move forward? All right, any questions? Cause we have a couple of minutes, I think. Yep, okay, no, you can ask it, but we're not going to be able to go into it in huge detail here. Okay, great question. Great question. Okay, I have one question for you. Is that website available to people, for anyone in the UK or the EU to visit? Yep, then yes, GDPR applies. Theoretically, yes, but what does it cover if a US citizen is in the EU? Okay, you would need the opinion of someone who's working on this, but I would say you're much closer to not having an issue. Yeah, I know that's not what you wanted to hear, but that's really the only solution right now. But here's the thing, we don't know yet what's going to happen and how it's going to be enforced. Where can we get smart on this? On GDPR? I did a session with iThemes with Nathan Ingram. I did a webinar with him a couple of months ago, exactly on this topic. It was an introduction to GDPR. Yeah, it's available. In training.iphemes.com. Yeah, and I did it exactly on this topic, and we're actually going to do another one in a couple of months where we dig even deeper on the topic. But here's the thing about GDPR. I want to encourage you, there are a lot of people out there saying they're GDPR experts. That regulation, set of regulation, is 20,000 pages long. I've read 5,000 of it. I don't claim to be a GDPR expert. Most of the people claiming to be GDPR experts don't have a law degree. Okay, I have that, and I'm still not a GDPR expert. So what kind of threat is this opposed to businesses right now? GDPR? If you are collecting biometric data, are you collecting an IP address? Do you have Google Analytics installed on your website? Then yes you are. Do you have people visiting your website from the EU? But what's the threat from? What order of the earth can it be? A lot of fines. And potential third party liability. That webinar details a lot of that stuff. So funnily enough, I have an I-Themes webinar, which I do not work for I-Themes. I do the webinars with I-Themes pro bono. The mic isn't working? Oh, I'm sorry. Oh, okay. So I am actually doing a webinar on exactly that, how to find a lawyer and roughly what it's gonna cost you. Yes, what it's gonna cost you. My best advice is first look for the ones in your community. So there's a couple of great resources. The American Bar Association's website has a really good list. It has a directory that you can look up. Depending on your industry or business type, there might be a certain type of lawyer that I would recommend. For example, if you're doing a lot of intellectual property heavy work, then that is an intellectual property attorney as a federal attorney. They work in federal law so they don't necessarily have to be located in your state. But if you're looking at straight business law, you may want someone that is licensed in your jurisdiction. Well, but even an e-commerce website, where are you physically located? Because that's gonna be one of, and where is your business entity formed? Because that's gonna be one of the ways that you figure out what state's law is the venue of choice. All right, was there someone else with a question? So the intellectual property infringement was the section on copyright. So the entire session tomorrow is on copyright. Yeah, the whole thing. All right, that's really annoying. I actually checked it two days ago, hang on. Yeah, I mean, I did, like I really try to make sure I checked those, but it did work for someone else. Okay, fabulous. I'm sorry, I really should have made better Bitly links for you guys. Yeah, I've done probably four or five webinars with Nathan specifically for WordPress people. So you can check those out. Depending on your industry, I think I've probably written about 250,000 words on legal issues as they relate to intellectual property copyright and businesses over the last two years. So send me an email. Sometimes I've had people contact me after word camps and say, I live on my favorite was I live on this island that used to be the domain of the Netherlands, but now it belongs to some other Caribbean country. Can you tell me how I register a trademark? Now to that person's credit, I looked at that and went, geez, that's a good question. Like that's interesting to try and figure out. And it actually took me a little bit. It took her a little bit and we did find her not necessarily a 100% answer, but we found her a couple of attorneys that live on that island who were intellectual property attorneys.  I actually, if you go to that webinar, the GDPR webinar, there's a handout specifically linked to in that webinar as well on GDPR and being compliant. So, yes. The divorce, I go to a divorce attorney. Yep. We need an accountant that can see VA. When we need to discuss as a web development company this type of online law, what type of lawyer do you look for? Well, so it's a little more complicated than that because it's not just online law. It's going to depend on what state you're in. Are you going to be wanting to talk about trademarks, copyright issues? Are you going to be wanting to talk to them about contracts? Yeah. Well, so once again, it's still going to depend what is your larger industry? So what's the industry in which your website, what does your website do? Well, we're a web development agency. Okay. So any contracts looked over? Okay, so it involves like code and development and things like that. Okay, so for example, so I have a client of mine who is an attorney. She is a trademark, an intellectual property attorney at Hart, she also does business law. She also has a degree in computer science and she works predominantly for software and gaming companies. She's an attorney for them. She would probably be one of the people that I would recommend to you guys. Now, she wouldn't be the only one because I usually recommend two to three people and there's a good ethical reason for that. But she would be for an example, someone that I would recommend in your case. Now, which state are you located in? Florida. Okay, she's in Nebraska, but you know what? I know another attorney who is licensed in Florida who also does similar work, both trademark and copyright and business law. You wanna find, the reason I ask those questions is you don't just want someone in your state or someone who does business law. You need someone who does have a background either in e-commerce, websites or in your case, like that more of that software type coding stuff where they're needing to understand the distinction between open source and sort of proprietary content. There's been a lot of developments in the last few months on whether or not and how much software can be patented. So if you're working at all in development of software applications, you're gonna need to find an attorney who actually understands that those developments have even happened, right? So yes, I can't always find everyone exactly what they need, but after a couple of years doing this, I have a pretty good Rolodex. I'm also a military spouse attorney and there are three and a half thousand of us. So we joke that Kevin Bacon's got nothing on us. We can usually find someone, if we don't know someone, we can find someone in the jurisdiction for you that has a broad experience. All right, I think I'm done. Maybe one more question. No, so it'd actually be called an intellectual property attorney, but tell me the industry you're in. So it's a content-based project. Yeah, there's a couple that I think would be more specialist in that, but you're looking for an intellectual property attorney or they call them like IP attorneys is what they like to call themselves. But for you to start with, I would definitely just seek out like a business attorney with a background maybe in publishing, whether that's online or not. Because if you're dealing with writers writing for you, you're gonna have to deal with who owns the copyright. Thank you. Thank you.


Alright, so let's take a look at the problem of multiplication using a concrete representation. So, for example, let's say I want to do the multiplication problem 4 times 2, 3, 5, base 6. And so, if we go to our basic definition of what multiplication is, then 4, 2, 3, 5, base 6 is, well, that's really 4, 2, 3, 5, base 6 is added together or combined. So what I can do, since we're working base 6, we'll go ahead and set down our place value chart. Again, the actual shape and appearance of the units doesn't matter. The only thing that's really relevant, smallest, next-larger, larger, larger, and so on. I'll put in four places here, but maybe we need more. We don't know how many we're going to need in advance, and we can always add columns to the left if necessary. Now I need four of these 2, 3, 5, base 6's, so I'll use our abstract symbols. Well, actually, let's go ahead and try to do this using a concrete representation. That's two of these things, three of these things, five of these things. So that is what our number, our concrete representation of 2, 3, 5, base 6 looks like. There's one of them, and I want four of them. So I'll have 1 and 2, 3, 4. So there's my second, third, and fourth of my 2, 3, 5, base 6's. And there's our product, although it's not in the form that we can write down as a final answer. But since we're working base 6, what that means is I can take 6 of anything and bundle it as one of the next thing up. So let's take a look for that. So I'm going to look for here's 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6. Now I'll find those sets of 6, and for convenience, I'll color code them. So here's a green set of 6, here's a whatever color it is, blue set of 6, here's a red set of 6, and there are sets of 6, and I'll bundle them. And again, they don't really belong in this column because they're not the right type, so I'll slide them over to the next column. And again, I'll look for a set of 6, and I'll look for my sets of 6, I'll bundle them. So there's a couple of sets of 6 that I can find. I'll bundle them together as a single thing, and again, slide them over to the correct location. And again, I'll look for a set of 6, so here's a set of 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6. There's a set of 6, I'll bundle it together to form a larger thing. And again, slide that over into the correct place. And here is what I have. I have no more sets of 6 that I can find, so at this point I'm done. And it remains to write this into my abstract symbols. And so I'll note that when I do that, I'm just recording how many of each of these things I have. So there's one of these, one, two, three, four of these, one, two, three, three of these, and two of these. So I'll write those down using my abstract symbols. And there's my final answer, one, four, three, two, base six.


As Hurricane Dorian approached the Bahamas and U.S. coast, mutual aid response and recovery efforts were being coordinated nearly 3,000 miles away. Dorian made landfall as a Category 5 Hurricane in the Bahamas over Labor Day weekend, then downgraded to a Category 2 as it veered towards the East Coast. In response, Governor Gavin Newsom, through Cal OES, approved the deployment of five urban search and rescue task forces from Menlo Park, Sacramento, Oakland, Los Angeles, and San Diego, along with two water rescue teams from Los Angeles and Orange County. Just now, we re starting to receive the actual activation orders, and that s the approval and the transportation arrangements for these task forces. Each task force consists of 35 highly trained search and rescue specialists, including canines and medical personnel. Cal OES also deployed an Assistant Chief from the Special Operations Unit for coordination and to act as a state agency representative. One of the things that is done beforehand is an incident support team that specializes in urban search and rescue. They ve been on the grounds since last week, so they have that situational awareness, and as the storm dynamics change, they ll be coordinating with these urban search and rescue teams, so when they get on the ground, they can go to work right away in areas affected. Aside from California, the state of Florida also received USAR resources from 16 other states. Cal OES had initially agreed to send a 10-person incident management team to Florida, but those plans changed on the morning of their departure due to a change in the storm s direction. The states that are being affected by this hurricane, they re putting in requests for assistance across the United States, and Cal OES is responding to those requests for assistance and sending the personnel that we can send and still maintain operations here. For more on California s response to Hurricane Dorian, follow us on our blog at OESNews.com and be sure to check out our social media channels on Facebook, Twitter, and YouTube. For all of us here at Cal OES, I m Jonathan Goddell.


hink tonight was that perfect balance and so people were passionate and and yet civil and so we I just want to give a huge shout out and thank you to our guests who are linked to the description. What are you waiting for? You know if you want to hear more you can hear more from all of them and also though yeah we want to say I have so many like huge thanks to give to you. Thank you guys so much for all of your support. I am really excited about where the channel is going. Thanks to you. One I want to give a huge thank you to Topot too. Thank you so much Topot who big also AKA Topot sell in the Twitch stream because right now we're streaming on Twitch as well. Want to let you know Topot helped us big time as you guys we basically we had known none of the emotes none of the like cool stuff that Topot's helped us with. There you are Topot too good to see you and so Topot to helped us so we have emotes now we have these cool looking panels and I'm just like thank you so much Topot to for real. And so our Twitch looks souped up which is really cool and we hope you enjoy and want to let you know our Twitch I am linking in the description or I'm sorry I'm linking it in the live chat. It's in the description too but I am putting that in the live chat in case you want to see that and or in case you'd like to click on it and see our Twitch and also see like the beautiful artwork. Thanks to Topot too that you can see there at our Twitch now as it looks great and so I'm excited about that I am also excited that we are one Twitch subscription I think we're one Twitch subscription to unlocking another emotes. And so that's cool and so I want to let you know folks if you have you have Amazon Prime you actually get a free Twitch subscription from Amazon Prime that you can use on any streamer that you want on Twitch. And so I want to let you guys know about that and I even want to let you I'm going to put the link for how to use your Amazon Prime membership for a free Twitch subscription subscription that you can use for anybody. I'm putting that in the chat right now in both Twitch and on YouTube and you probably already knew it if you're on Twitch you probably knew with that little secret. But nonetheless in case you did not know about that you guys is pretty cool is that it's basically it helps us at the channel and one of the things for example is if we had 100 people who did this Amazon Prime free Twitch subscription for modern day debate. That's $250 a month which is like when we start doing in person debates we could use that for at least a one way flight, maybe a round trip flight. So like we want to do a lot of in person debates this summer again. And so that's one way you can support the channel if you have Amazon Prime and won't even be an extra dime. Sigma anything so much for your super chat said thanks James mods and guests and groovy chat humans still fuming from the outrageous timeout JK. I know I gotta let you know I have no idea what that was because the person behind the Oliver Catwell account is one of the most kind reasonable people I know. And so I was like at first I was like oh he's kind of you know he's kind of going he's hard on people. And then after he like deleted like everybody I was like that can't be him. I don't believe it. And so Louis Barnett thanks for hanging out with us said I really enjoyed this one. I'm so glad to hear that Louis me too. I loved it. Vegan Jerry good to see you again Brooke Chavis glad to see you as always and thanks for connecting me with top hot for those that twitch artwork which looks great. And also then Kono good to see you again. I am excited you guys as basically we I noticed during the stream if you are not subscribed want to remind you to hit that subscribe button and that notification bell that way you can see this debate live this Friday night. Destiny's morality will be on trial in particular so that should be a really fun time. And so I encourage you folks it's going to be really fun and so I want to encourage you and also I'm excited though you guys we are two I think two subscribers away last time I we're at. I think we made it to the next landmark. We're at right now I'm not joking we're at forty three thousand nine hundred and ninety nine subscribers. So if you want to be the forty four thousandth subscriber we're it's like at that the odometer isn't the odometer in the car when it it's like it's turning over and you're it's at like nine nine nine nine and you're like oh you're watching it. That's I'm like so do want to encourage you. Yeah you don't want to miss this debate this Friday and I'm excited though I'm encouraged that we're on the cusp of forty four thousand subscribers which is insane because I'm like wow when we when I started this is just like. It was like hey this is like fun because school can sometimes be exhausting and this is just a way to have fun and then all yeah just strangely it was like it was a fun hobby just kind of got a kick out of it. And I'm so glad though that other people have enjoyed it and that you guys you guys make it so much fun the more the merrier. Dada Panda Dada Panda sorry I'm late in answering your question in the chat. They said has this channel done a debate on gun control. We have and it's going to be on the podcast where it's a it was an old one but it was a good debate is between Dr. Tim sigh and Tom jump. That was a good debate that's going to be on the podcast this Thursday. So folks if you if you happen to have a favorite podcast app. Oh baby pull out your phone open up that favorite podcast app and find modern day debate because we not only do we have probably every other day we have. We put a new debate up because that's probably how many debates we have per week is maybe like three or four each week. We also on Thursday do our throwback Thursday debate where we actually upload a debate that you could say. It was a debate that occurred before we even started our podcast and want to let you know. Yeah basically it's really cool though because some of those are like we've got you know people in the past that have been awesome debaters and it was like hey this is a great way throwback Thursday. We could like have her you know a way in which we could like conveniently put that up and so hopefully that's useful to you and yeah I'm pumped though you guys so. Caleb says James's last meal of choice would be a soy protein bar washed down by a soy protein shake that is so true. I was yeah so much soy Louis but yeah let's see catch it up with the chat. Fox sushi good to see you friend King 101 says message retracted. But yeah so glad I think everybody's back now for some reason whatever happened. I don't know what it was but Oliver Katwell played the ultimate prank on us. That was weird. I'm like what happened. But let's see. Nicolai says James would thank the warden for the polite and well facilitated execution. Yes that's funny. But yes our favorite our podcast is on all these favorite apps. So you know Stitcher Apple podcast. What's the green one Spotify. Thanks and podcast addict. I mean you name it Google podcast. And so I'm so excited though that like I said people have been downloading it which is encouraging because I was like when I first started and I was like. Is anybody I don't know if anybody you know is this useful to anybody. And so I'm so encouraged by that and so but yeah I am pumped you guys and let me tell you. I just love hanging out with you guys the more the merrier you guys make this fun. And so I appreciate you being here and let's see catching up with the chat. This is. But yeah I do appreciate you guys big thing Bruce Wayne said idea it's more moral to be. Let's see. Ignite the claim. He says hey I say I'm claiming that it's more moral to be agnostic than fundamentalist. And they say take team debate. I want it with two theists from from different religions. All that might work. I don't know. I don't know. I'm like not against it but I mean I'm like I'm a little behind on setting up debates. Just like honestly I really feel bad because when we get emails and then sometimes emails sit for weeks and I'm just I just can't I just don't have the time to try to I tried to respond everybody but it's really hard big thing Bruce Wayne said debate idea.  That's an interesting one in some ways that seems real and big thing Bruce Wayne says follow up debate. We are in heaven or the best of all worlds right now. Maybe. But yeah tuss beat box good to see you. Thanks for all of your support. And yeah you guys I just appreciate your guys support you have no idea how much it means the positivity and the encouragement. I'm like thanks so much. It's fun. We have a unique style here and it's like I'm so excited though that people have enjoyed it to where it's like that's super encouraging. And so we do appreciate that and then let's see. Sideshow Nav said you were forcing me into the tech world hurting my old brain. Good to see you Sideshow Nav. Then Kono said debate on ecology topics such as invasive species would be interesting or specific pollution. Maybe. It's new for me. It's like Bali Naks says what would your last meal be. Ah man I don't know maybe lobster. I love lobster. Lobster shrimp steak and ice cream probably. That's pretty good. But I'm so it's like for some reason I'm like really sensitive tonight. Like to even think of like knowing it would be your last meal would be heart breaking. But Carlitha Rochelle says can you update more on podcast. Yes we are we're behind. So like we're usually it's like when a debate is live on YouTube it's usually like two weeks later that it comes out on podcast. It might eventually catch up. It's just that we've got a lot. We have so many debates that it's like but yeah so I'm pumped though and I hope that's useful to you and then Tuss thinks your hearts and Clinton Roch says some of us really need you creepy clown music. I appreciate that to say the least. Tuss Beatbox says the Spotify library modern day debate is so smooth to have. I love it. Thanks. I'm so glad that it's that's encouraging. Yeah here they are. These apps you guys if you're just cleaning around the house and you just want to you know have something on in the background. That's not bad.  You're like not bad pretty useful because it's long form content. So you don't actually like reach down and like click you know to the next one you can just play it and it'll last for at least two hours. And so or maybe some of them are like hour and a half but that's pretty rare. Let's see. Manic Pan is good to see you again. But yeah a huge thing is thanks for your kind words. Cristiana McFarlane said I think you're a great moderator. Thanks so much. We purposely we really do. I do this and I also the other moderators generally probably have a similar style. We don't want to control the debate too much. Well the reason is there's such a thing as being over controlled or overly formal or you could say overly produced where it's not spontaneous. If the moderator if it's too controlled that gosh it can be boring sometimes and don't get me wrong. I like debates where it's like nobody cuts anybody off because sometimes we have debaters who are just like very easy you know easy going and they're not they don't cut each other off. Those are good. Don't get me wrong but I like it to be organic like that. And so sometimes it's a little fiery and you know I know that I only occasionally like all right hold on let's not let it go too far. I call it controlled chaos and I think that it's good and I have no apologies for it and I just appreciate your guys's encouragement and yeah so I do appreciate and the other thing too is it's not just that it's arguably more fun to listen to but I would say the other thing is it's more fun for the debaters. The debaters don't go on a channel wanting to have it be like all formal and controlled. Now they don't want it to be a mess and I agree like once in a while we go we let it go too far. I admit that but nonetheless the debaters don't want the moderator jumping into the debate too much believe me I know from experience a lot of these people who some of them like maybe are critics and it's like well believe me I've debated on channels where the moderators jumping into the debate and debating one of the people and it's like nah not what we're looking for. Brooke Chavis thanks for your support says thank you James for all your hard work and dedication to this channel. Thanks so much Brooke seriously that really does mean a lot I mean seriously more than you know so but yeah I'm pumped and then Jamie had a question about how should we consider death penalties in light of the Bible and how that's an interesting question I truly don't I've never even heard the question or thought of the question so it's interesting but by the way if you if you emailed me Jamie I got your email today about the asking if I was okay I'm I don't live in you probably already got the email I live about 45 minutes north of Boulder so the King Supers where it happened that's the name of the grocery stores that we have here one of them it wasn't my King Supers you could say so I my heart goes out to the families who like experienced that tragic loss but yeah thanks for reaching out and just asking if I was okay I really do appreciate that yeah cuz yeah it's like you know Boulder I'll visit once in a while that's where Carlita Rachelle says James you were hot and you're doing an awesome job here thank you appreciate that you're making me blush I always think Carlita or you know people like sometimes it's like it'll be like Tiffany and it'll be like ooh hi James and then you know you find out Tiffany is actually Earl the postman from Alabama and he's you know telling me that I'm hot but I believe you Carlita that you're not Earl the postman my old stalker but yeah so I appreciate it Sideshow Nav says controlled chaos rocks thanks for that I appreciate that Manic Panas says hey James Knight was great big fan of Dylan I have to be honest I'm a big fan of Dylan too and I the reason I couldn't say it too strongly during the debate cuz I don't want to like sound like I'm playing favorites but I love Dylan's channel for a multitude of reasons one is that it's it's a debate channel and I love that and so you know he's got all sorts of people on the channel and so I gotta tell you folks if you sorry twitch chat him behind in case you've been saying hello says if you thanks Brooks Barrow for your support in there in the twitch chat I'm peeking in there and so basically he's got all sorts of guests and also I just love the hippie-dippy championship for example the like the belt and it's just it's a fun example of showmanship I Dylan I just love it I appreciate cuz there's a lot of youtubers that I just feel like they don't have a lot of times they're like a debate channel has to be all serious and boring and so like some people don't get that namely for example the hippie-dippy championship that Dylan has where they have like a legit belt it looks great and you know so it's like I think Bosch is the first one to win it and so long story short though is that for me I think that is fantastic it's amazing it's fun and so I just love that Dylan has that showmanship and you know he's he's not boring he's fun and so anyway I'm so glad you enjoyed him being here and we hope to have him back and Phil the logician says hi James hi Phil glad thanks for being with us and Bollinac says do you sometimes find it hard to stay out of the discussion it's it's not too hard in the sense that I like try really hard to disconnect myself and to be like hey James like I you know I remind myself you have to be like completely impartial at least that's I try to do I would say it's like rare once in a while if there's something that I hear that's like blatantly flagrantly false I'm like and I count on the other debater to say it though because I'm just like so like I'll at least give them a chance to say it and depending on what it is it's like usually it's not something that like would be you know like trying to think of so yeah it's that's when it's hard and that's and I'm like really picky too because there's a lot of stuff where it's like well that's kind of subjective but there's some stuff where it's like if I know for example the meta-analyses that have been done on certain things in psychology and I'm like no I know what the most recent like research says like I know that like sometimes I'll see someone like yeah that's just not true but that's where it's hard Clinton Roche says James has honey honey's in the chat or all the postman indeed and so that's funny Tuss appreciate your kind words and then Frank the truck driver that's right I yeah he's another one of my favorite people let's see Clinton Roche yeah you guys get me excited Carlitha says no appreciate your support Carlitha seriously glad you're here the master says vegan debate soon James you're right we actually have one tomorrow no joke I haven't made the thumbnail yet because I'm so behind but yeah we will it's gonna be Brian and Anna are gonna be back I'm really excited about that Jamie Russell says I'm a prime member on Amazon and seeing that with that service there are free modern debate podcast available check it out like and subscribe thanks so much I'm confused but I'm encouraged I yeah but yeah so thank you and yet there is it I just saw it from Tuss we want to put that up where is that Tuss beatbox says the first hippie to be champion ship is linked here that was between Bastiat and Vosh absolutely and so that is linked at the top of the chat I encourage you guys to check that out yeah I just love that I'm like finally somebody who gets like who enjoys kind of that showmanship and kind of like you know like extra flair I just loved it and so I appreciated I'm happy that Dylan Burns TV does his channel and his twitch and his YouTube and and so Jamie Russell let's see but yeah Darth Revan good to see you again then Kono good to see you and then has a lot of gore says reservoir of gore poker face that occasionally pokes I don't even know what that means this some sort of dirty joke but yeah then Kono you're right those those annoying vegans strike again that's the name of their YouTube channel and they are so honestly they're they're just really genial I love them and so I'm glad that they are coming back test says James and Dylan will probably be very close friends within a year calling it yeah I gotta be honest I really like Dylan I just he's very authentic I get why people enjoy Dylan and so I do appreciate that about him and I'd love to get to know more cool guy and then Kono says let's see talk and smack but yeah you guys I just enjoy hanging out with you so thank you let's see but yeah I'm I'm just like peeking around and I am excited though you guys are huge supporters and I just hope you know how much I appreciate it and we are right now we just hit 44,000 subscribers so thank you guys so much for that support thank you so much for just hanging out here it makes it fun and so yeah I just I always thought you know I when I started debate channel I loved it because I thought I want a channel where I can simultaneously produce content and learn simultaneously because I was like it would be fun to do a channel where I get to learn what I do and so because you know listening to these debates guys like as you know I'm guessing you've learned things too it's like you can learn all sorts of stuff from all sorts of different people and that's just awesome and so yeah but yeah I'm pumped and so I would say that one big thing that is helpful is if you want to support the channel in a way that it's just like easy and you know save your money like don't worry about that if you just share the content that helps so you know for example if it's like on Facebook and you share it you know posted it or whatever or if you are on Twitter and you retweet us I got yeah you guys were on Twitter let me show you this I'm gonna put the link in the description because I'm pumped that we're on Twitter and I want that to be accessible to you in case you want updates on when our new debates are coming out because I always tweet in the morning Clinton Roche is right he says stay hydrated and get some sleep I agree and I will I promise I'm gonna log off in just a minute thanks Tuss Beatbox says remember to hit the like button thank you Tuss and I agree please do support the stream that way big thank Bruce Wayne says debate idea college athletes should get salaries oh that is actually that's pretty interesting idea I saw that in the news about a year ago I feel like it was maybe not even a year ago I think over the summer it came up and so yeah I general ball sack says gun control debate coming up I'll watch it and call out the anti gun folks not on the youtube channel but on here general ball sack our podcast this Thursday I've already selected the throwback Thursday debate that we're gonna upload on to the podcast and it's gonna be our general debate so check that out on your favorite podcast app and that'll be a convenient way to find it and listen to it that was between Tom jump and Dr. Tim sigh who we hope is doing well and but yeah our Twitter I've just pinned it at the top of the chat so I want to encourage you like hey yeah check it out if you're on Twitter we would love to hear from you like feel free to always tweet and say hey what up and positivity Argonne the sad said still 43 thousand and nine yeah I think it might be that it takes a while to update because I'm in the creator studio unless somebody just unsubscribe might be I don't know but um yeah so in the creator studio it says 44 thousand but I think it takes a little bit extra time on the normal watch page for it to I think so I think you're right that's why it says that and let's see sharing is caring we do appreciate your sharing and reservoir of course wasn't being filthy meant you maintain a poker face during the debate only rear only really challenged the debaters poke does sound dirty though does donkono says I want to see some hard hitting debates wine versus beer rugby versus American football that would be interesting and it would be new too big thing Bruce Wayne says debate idea alien control the world that'd be interesting we're trying to get that fellow who somebody is going to try to reach out to him they're trying to get him where he's they emailed and said that they're going to try to get him I think the fellow you see in the memes where he's like this and he's like I'm not saying it's aliens but it's aliens we're trying to reach out to that fellow from the history channel that would be pretty cool and thanks for your kind words sigma any says fantastic as always James many love to any humans lizard ghosts and the other beings reading this thanks for that friend do appreciate your positivity and yeah but I'm excited and so you guys seriously you guys make my day it's really fun balling next says any religion debates coming up yes Maddox returns this Saturday and so he's going to be debating one-on-one with Randall I think that's this Saturday what have we got oh I didn't even tell you guys about upcoming debate sorry about that so tomorrow's veganism Thursday Jim Majors and CJ Cox are going to debate whether or not Moses existed so you don't want to miss that that'll be a fun one I love that it's a new topic so that should be fun and then let's see we might have so do you remember Maddie we might have her come back to debate whether or not the flood happened the the flood of Noah whether or not that happened would be the title and so that could be a really fun one so that is up in the air depends on Maddie's availability and so not for sure yet but thanks for your feedback in the chat as well from general ball sex says computer issues still want to get into a gun control debate against but must but most of the folks here are against gun control yes they say but most folks here are against gun control oh man like people in the chat I would think a lot of people in chat I could be wrong I don't want to speak from but I think a lot of people actually would probably be for more gun control but balling acts as a debate on feminism in women's rights could be good we tried that surprisingly those gender issues don't do as well with the audience as I predict oh it's right so Friday of course that's a morality debate with destiny and uh Brenton that'll be fun we haven't seen destiny in a while I hope he's doing well even it's a nice young man and then uh I think Dustin and I are the same age maybe but T jump oh T jump and mouthy will be debating the super straight topic next week and so yeah I'm pumped though you guys we're trying to set up one with mad ox and mouthy infidel on socialism versus capitalism and then we might have a tag team debate not this weekend but the following weekend it's going to trigger a lot of people but yeah we might have a tag team debate but yeah so anyway thank you guys so much for all of your support Fernando thanks for being with us my friend let me know if I pronounced it right I hope I did but yeah we do appreciate you hanging out here now I'm going to try something let me see if um if Dylan is still streaming can you remind me can I raid someone's um raid dylan burns tv let me try to do this I'm going to try to raid Dylan um oh maybe he just stopped streaming recently I don't know but it says doesn't it show he's live I'm trying to invade his stream but I can't remember how to do it does anybody can anyone help me remember like what are the what I have to put let's see raid Dylan burns tv slash raid um let's see so those of you yeah so Dylan's live right now I can't remember okay so slash raid is so okay let me try this thanks for your patience with me boomer stuff I'm working on it oh that didn't work either I can't remember how to raid a stream how to raid stream twitch I'll look it up I'm on google how to use raids to start a raid type slash raid followed by do you just put like oh maybe this will do it let me try this thanks top settle top settle so is it twitch tv and then slash then I put the slash I think it's working no come on we did this once before so what's the full I sorry tops tops at all I'm a boomer bear with me is it so do I put this where I would put oh you type it in chat so that is so cool thank you for showing me that oh I love it oh it's so cool I'm so embarrassed it's that hard it's not actually hard I am just okay we're ready to raid here we go I'm excited so yeah thanks for telling me that I'm so excited and yeah I'm gonna wind down and want to say thank you though everybody for just hanging out club says you're supposed to tell us all to go there I I rated it on twitch so if you're on our twitch I just jumped over there and then so reservoir of course a debate on torture would be interesting if you already done a debate on pornography I haven't done a debate on either of those let's see but yeah I want to say thank you guys seriously for all of your love and support so I'm gonna pop into the cool okay oh cool I love it so this cool wait are you guys do I understand right that um when we when we when we go into another stream we're able to like share the picture of like modern a debate um like those the our emotes that's cool I didn't know that it works can we do emo we can do our emotes in Dylan burns TV his stream now is it only because we rated him I don't know but it's cool I like it so that's awesome and I got to get nightbot I've been told that so I am working on that that's in my list of things to do for the channel and so but yeah thank you and let's see probably next is James you look tall I'm only I'm about like I'm a little tall but not super tall I'm like six foot and a half inch technically so let's see Clinton Russia steel clean rest well thanks for your kind words my friend thanks for your support and yeah you guys thank you guys I love you guys seriously it's always fun I'm excited we'll be back to one according to the creator studio so thank you guys so much for your support thanks for sharing content all that stuff it seriously means a lot and I'm excited about the future you guys I honestly am determined believe me let me wrap up with this beyond a shadow of it out believe me you guys I am 100% determined modernity debate is going to continue growing it's going to grow big and we are excited about the future and so tonight is an example of it we just crossed into 44,000 and so thanks for your support you guys it's all you thank you guys so much for making this channel what it is for making it awesome making it fun thanks for all of your support and I gotta yeah believe me we are going to strive after our goal our absolute vision for the future of providing a level playing field an equal nonpartisan platform where anybody can come and make their case on that level playing field so thank you guys for supporting that thanks for supporting the vision thanks for everything you guys I love you I hope you have a great night and thanks everything I love you guys thanks for all your support and love and you guys always make it fun and so I am stoked you guys you just it's always hard to leave I just I seriously appreciate you so thank you guys and appreciate it res a lot of course and congrats on the 44,000 subscribers we're excited about it thanks everybody for making this fun and awesome and Clinton rushes 500,000 subs coming you guys I'm dead serious like we I seriously believe absolutely we will get to that point someday it's going to be a while might frankly take 10 years like who knows but it's it's I'm absolutely determined yeah someday we will get to 500,000 subs for example that's the goal that's what we're shooting for and thanks everybody for all your support and love I love you guys thanks for everything keep sifting out the reasonable from the unreasonable everybody