You're listening to the Naked Bible Podcast. To support this podcast, click at nakedbiblepodcast.com and click on the support link in the upper right-hand corner. If you're new to the podcast and Dr. Heizer's approach to the Bible, click on newstarthere at nakedbiblepodcast.com. Welcome to the Naked Bible Podcast, episode to 20, our 30th Q&A. I'm your layman, Trey Strickland, and he's the scholar, Dr. Michael Heizer. Hey, Mike, how you doing this week? Pretty good. Here we go again, another Q&A, so we keep motoring through them. It's amazing, 30th. That's a big round number, 30. That's a little hard to believe. Maybe when we hit like 50, we'll have a Q&A where we don't ask a question, like just to make it different. We need to add up all the questions that you've answered. I'm sure it's in the hundreds. Oh, that would be interesting. It would be interesting at 30 times probably at least five to 10 per episode. It's got to be in the hundreds, in a couple of hundred maybe. Yeah, we should try to figure that out. We could give somebody a prize like for asking the 500th question or the 1,000th question or something like that. You got so much free time to give me something to do. I'm like, you know, I'm where I need an assistant. It's getting nuts. And I want to tell everybody out there, you could still email me at treystricklandgmail.com, and I promise you, I get your questions, and I apologize. I probably need to do an auto responder like Mike does where I just can't respond to every single. I get so many emails now that it's just impossible to respond to every one unless I made a full-time job to do so. So just know if you email me at treystrickland.gmail.com, I do get your emails and I appreciate them. And I promise you when I can, I'll respond to you. Well, Mike, are you ready for our next round of questions? Yep. Okay. Our first one is going to be from Tom in Irving, Texas, a fellow Texan. And again, if you're around that area in August, come to our Naked Bible Conference. Well, let's just tell Tom we're not going to answer his question unless he comes to the conference. How's that? Ooh, boom, blackmail. I like it. Or just say, save your question for the conference and your answer at the conference. I like that. All right. So here's Tom's question. I'm very much aware of Mike's view of inspiration and degree. Humans are very involved and so is God's sovereignty. Indeed, it seems that scripture is 100% the work of the human author, but also 100% the work of God. It occurs to me that there are clear parallels to the written revelation, the Bible, and the incarnate revelation, Jesus. Our theology tells us that Jesus is both fully human and fully God. And there are no tradeoffs or losses of either humanity or divinity. Is it fair to say that the written word is fully human and fully divine, just as Jesus is fully human, but also fully divine? Is that a fair observation? And does that help anyone better understand Mike's view of inspiration? Well, I would certainly say scripture is 100% the work of human authors. And it's 100% the work of God in terms of providence, sovereignty, and whatnot. Because you wouldn't be able to speak coherently about really anything happening that doesn't escape God's notice or His sovereignty. Of course, it gets you into how you define sovereignty and whatnot in light of free will. But sovereignty is not absent. Let's put it that way, even though it's subject to definition. However, I'm really not comfortable with describing or assigning divinity to a book. And the reason for that is divinity, as I think of it, is a quality of a supernatural being, in other words, a living entity. So that's why it works with Jesus on both sides, human and non-human, human and deity, because he is a living being. Either way, either incarnate or not incarnate. God is the spirit and all that stuff. So that's why the language of divinity works for me. Since I parsed divinity that way about, again, being a quality of a supernatural being or a being created in God's likeness, like us, we're created in God's likeness and we can speak of ourselves as being divine, especially in our glorification. But again, we're living beings. So that's why I hesitate to take that term that works so well with living entities and assign it to an inanimate object, like a book or a manuscript or something like that. So I don't really like that language for that reason, even though I affirm that God didn't take a day off or a minute off while he was engaged in however he was engaged in providentially overseeing the process by which we get this thing called the Bible. So I think you can still affirm that. But again, I would be very wary of using a word like the Bible is divine just for that reason. It's a semantic thing for me. So I just don't think the word fits inanimate objects really well. You have holy vessels, of course. You have holy vessels, of course. A word like sacred works well with an inanimate object. Scripture is certainly 100% sacred. But again, I just don't like the word divine when used of an inanimate object. So maybe that's just me, but you're asking me, so that's how I look at it. Now, having said all that, I would express the idea a little bit differently. I'd say that the final product of the process of inspiration is fully human, again, since it came by virtue of human hands, and fully acceptable to God. That is, it fully accomplishes what God had in mind and contains no errors in terms of its truth propositions. I've said things to this effect before on the podcast. Again, I can't expect everybody to have heard all that, but that's sort of the way I would express it. Scripture is exactly and fully what God had in mind. So this thing produced at the end of the process of inspiration. I do not view inspiration as an event. I view it as a process. There are many hands that touch this thing we call Scripture that contribute to producing the final product. Again, this thing that we assign sacred status to and call it the Bible, most of whom we'll never know, most of whom aren't even alluded to in the pages of the text itself. But God prepared each one, each writer, each editor, each person who had played some role in giving us the final product. God providentially prepared people for that moment, that touch point, that contribution to this thing we call Scripture, this thing we call the Bible. So providence is a big deal for me. Process is a big deal. So I would say at the end of all that, God was happy. It was what God wanted it to be, and it contains no errors in terms of its truth propositions. Now, I distinguish truth propositions, as many listeners will know, from the means by which those propositions are expressed or communicated. In other words, the thing claimed, that's a proposition, the thing claimed and the means of making the claim are not the same. They're not the same items. They're different things. They're different but related things. So for example, a biblical writer can say something that doesn't conform to what we know that's true about earth science, something like that. Again, I'm speaking in generalities here. A Scripture writer can make an allusion to something that we know is demonstrably contrary to physical natural reality. But who cares? Because that isn't the truth proposition. It's a means by which the biblical writer is moving toward expressing and asserting a truth proposition. And I believe that Scripture's truth propositions are not errant. I believe in errancy in that way. Again, everybody gets to define an errancy and all that stuff, and we all know that if we've spent any time looking at the subject. So this is why I'm comfortable with using a word like an errancy of Scripture, because the things that it asserts, that it demands that we believe these truth propositions, they are without error. But the means by which they are expressed might be a different story. So I think that's a necessary distinction. It's a coherent distinction because the thing that is claimed is not the same as the means by which it is claimed. This is a simple, sort of lesson in coherent thinking, logic that I think applies really well to Scripture and does not impede on Scripture's authority at all, because authority is rooted in truth propositions, not the means by which those propositions are expressed. Dennis has our next three questions, and the first one is, any insights on why the demons that Jesus cast out seem to have a specific notion of when Jesus is supposed to exercise authority over them? Yeah, I would say the reason they have a sense of this is likely the Old Testament, specifically Day of the Lord passages. My point is not that demons are subscribers to every little scrap of Scripture that comes along, and, hey, did you read the latest? You know, we're doomed into the abyss until the end of time. But I think as people, again, talk about that as they think about it. I think a divine intelligence, a supernatural intelligence, of course, is going to run into that idea and be told that idea by God himself. God isn't going to tell them one thing until prompt Scripture writers to write something down that's different. There's going to be consistency there, so we don't want to turn this into a cartoon. But the information, again, you know, should be available. So that's why I think you get this sense. Of course, you could say, well, this is all the writer. The writer could read the Old Testament. This is the way the writer casts the story. Well, sure, you can say that too. But, you know, since I believe, you know, demons are real supernatural intelligences that interact with human beings and, of course, interact with God and God is going to be consistent with the sentence he, you know, pronounces on them and telling humans what sentence he pronounced on them. God's going to be consistent there. It's not a surprise that they know that they're under a curse and that the day of the Lord is that that's what they got to look forward to. So you have day of the Lord passages in the Old Testament that specifically telegraph the idea that it's that at that time that the supernatural forces that are hostile to God are going to get judged along with the wicked, you know, the wicked on earth in terms of people. But God's going to clean house in both places. You know, and there are passages that allude to this, just a couple. And then I'm also going to mention a couple second temple passages like from Enoch that say the same thing and Enoch's getting it from the Old Testament too. So you have Isaiah 34, 1-4, draw near o nations to hear and give attention o peoples. Let the earth hear and all that fills it, the world and all that comes from it. For the Lord is enraged against all the nations and furious against all their host. He has devastated them to destruction. He has given them over for slaughter. Their slain shall be cast out. The stench of their corpses shall rise. The mountains shall flow with their blood. You know, that's that's very earthly because they're bleeding. And then we have all the host of heaven shall rot away and the skies shall roll up as a scroll. Their host shall fall. Now I've mentioned before, and this would be like naked Bible trivia time, that the phrase in Hebrew, their host, sava with a third person plural suffix attached to it, that that is in the Hebrew Bible always that's a that's a morphological form that in context is always about supernatural hosts, not earthly hosts. And I didn't come up with that. That's the work of Joel Reimsma. I've mentioned his ETS paper a few times on the podcast before. He did his dissertation in this area specifically Isaiah 34 and its relationship to Psalm 82. Isaiah 24 21 is another one of these. Let me just read that quickly. On that day, that's stock vocabulary for the day of the Lord. On that day, the Lord will punish the host of heaven in heaven and the kings of the earth on the earth. So they're the two, you know, God cleaning house in both realms is pretty clear, you know, Isaiah 24 21. So in view of this teaching, again, this is why I think we read what we do read coming from the demons and think about the context. Jesus shows up and they know who this is, you know, some of the most high like duh. Okay, of course, they're the only ones that refer to Jesus with that language. They know who this is, and they don't necessarily know what the plan is, but they assume and look at what they assume. They assume that the son of the king, who is the crown prince, he's, you know, in fact, the king, he's the co-regent. He shows up. So Ergo, therefore, it must mean that the day of the Lord is upon us, because that is the time when God rectifies all things. The wicked is punished. The wicked are punished. The righteous are indicated. And the kingdom of God returns to earth. So when they see him show up, that's what they're thinking.  Because they again, they know that this is eschatologically what the picture is. And in one sense, they're right. The kingdom has come. Jesus himself uses that language. But what they don't know is real important. He has to die.  And they're duped because they don't know that his death is actually the thing that is the plan, the linchpin of the plan, because you can't conquer death unless you have a resurrection and you can't have a resurrection until you have a death.  But all that they're tracking with is the kingdom stuff. And again, largely it's because of the Old Testament. You get this in Enoch. I'll just read one passage in Enoch. I was going to read a couple, but just for the sake of time, we'll just restrict it to first Enoch 10. You get this again in Second Temple Period. People in the first century are going to be familiar with this as well. So we'll flavor this with a little bit of Old Testament, a little bit of Second Temple literature. First Enoch 10 verse 12 says, when they and all their children have battled with each other, when they have seen the destruction of their beloved ones, bind them for 70 generations underneath the rocks of the ground. This is the judgment of the Watcher's passage. Bind them for 70 generations, again, 70 the number of, you know, totality, underneath the rocks of the ground until the day of their judgment and of their consummation until the eternal judgment is concluded. In those days, they will lead them into the bottom of the fire and in torment in the prison where they will be locked up forever. And at that time, when they will burn and die, those who collaborated with them will be bound together with them from henceforth, under the end of all generations and destroy all the souls of pleasure and the children of the Watchers for they have done injustice to man. And this is God's, you know, pronouncement of judgment on the Watchers. So the Watchers are sent to the abyss, they're in prison, they're going to be there for 70 generations. And then, you know, when that's up, then they're going to be there permanently, you know, they're going to get destroyed, so on and so forth. So this is what the language of demonology, again, in the Gospels and some of these passages is what it's tracking on. And isn't it interesting that you have a similarity between the Gospel ideas of what the demons in the Gospels are expecting to happen to them? You have an overlap here with this material in Enoch. And again, it's connected to the Watcher story.  So, you know, we've talked about this really at length, you know, reversing Hermon does a lot with it. Archie Wright's book, Origin of Evil Spirits is the book to get on that particular topic. Of course, our Archie's going to be with us at the Naked Bible Conference, and hopefully we'll have him on the podcast before we hit the conference. So it's very consistent, it's very consistent thinking between, you know, what we read in this area in the Gospels and what we read both in the Old Testament and in Second Temple Literature. And also, Mike, we were there at that location, the site of Jesus casting out those demons, which is... Yeah, in the area where we're legion, that whole story happened, yep. Yep, you get to see stuff like that. So it's crazy, you know, just for me personally, you know, now that we're talking about, get a question like that, and I go right back to that location, if you haven't gone to Israel people, you need to go. It turns out the Bible is true. It was nice not to see anybody naked running around and screaming or something like that. That would be a little upsetting there. Yeah. All right. See, there was your opportunity for one of these Get Naked comments you're always doing, and you know, I laid that out. I gave you the softball. I was a softball. Yeah, I dropped it. I apologize about that. I was going with, you know, you need to go to Israel, and you're thinking about going naked. So I think our roles have flipped here. Now, you've become the... I've lost my mind. Okay. Here's Dennis' second question. Are there any other alternative theories or teachings regarding the origins of demons in second-tipple literature or other relevant literature other than the disembodied defile? Well, the only one that's really secure, you know, that's not problematic in terms of the idea is Philo of Alexandria. Again, Wright in his book is going to discuss Philo. Philo... I'll just read how Archie Wright describes Philo's view of, you know, all this origin of evil spirit stuff. He says, Philo is the lone voice in the Alexandria and Diaspora during the second-temple period that has a different view whose view differs considerably from the tradition set forth in the Book of the Watchers. So yeah, there is one. There is an alternate view, but it is a lone voice, you know, crying in the wilderness. So Philo of Alexandria, again, did not buy into the Book of the Watcher stuff for the origin of demons.  He's going to track through, you know, some of that material or some book on Philo or whatever. Some scholars would toss in something in a line in Josephus, specifically in the Jewish Wars, book 7, line 185. Apparently, again, depending on which text you read, so there's a text critical issue here. Apparently, you know, some of the manuscripts define demons as the spirits of wicked men, which enter the living and kill them unless aid is forthcoming. Other texts say it's just the spirit of the wicked. So it lacks the word anthropos in the text so that spirits of the wicked could be wicked anything. And of course, you know, the disembodied spirits of the Nephilim, they would, of course, be wicked. So you know, Josephus could be very consistent on that point, again, but there's a manuscript issue. If you look at like Nice, the Nice edition of Josephus and the Critical Apparatus, it's going to suggest that anthropos was added to, you know, to quote unquote, correct or help the text. So anthropos could be a secondary term. And I think, again, given the given the significant uniformity of Second Temple Judaism on this matter, it probably is a late edition. But for, you know, the only one that's secure, the only departure from this that, you know, isn't embroiled in issues like text critical readings would be Philo of Alexandria. It seems fairly clear to me that the Passover happening during Christ's death and resurrection and the Feast of Weeks, Pentecost, seem to have played some sort of prophetic role and perhaps are meant to help us understand these events more clearly by the Feast that they are connected with. Do you believe that the Feast of Booths will play a similar role in some future event since it has not been connected with anything as significant as the Passover and the Feast of Weeks?  So that's kind of obvious and has nothing to do with the future. That's, you know, the crucifixion. You know, the Feast of Weeks, Pentecost, again, that's the new covenant coming of the Spirit. That's what happens in Acts 2. So that's pretty easy. As far as the Feast of Booths, you know, Sukkot, I would, the best way I can answer this is to say go listen to Episode 206. We did an episode called the 70 Bulls of Sukkot, 70 Bulls of, you know, the Feast of Booths, and it's zeroed in on a passage in Numbers 29, 12 through 34 that scholars have noticed that there were 70 Bulls offered in that passage. And, you know, since you get 70, it draws attention to, you know, the Deuteronomy 32 worldview, the Table of Nations and all that kind of stuff. So we went through all of that material. Critical scholars like to say that this part of the Feast of Booths celebration, these were 70 offerings to the gods of the nations, sort of to pacify them so you have this sort of residual polytheism going on in Numbers 29. I don't buy that at all. I think, again, for the reasons, the detailed reasons go listen to Episode 206, but I think the 70 Bulls are offered not to the gods of the nations, but to commemorate deliverance from all other gods, hostile to Israel, because that's what the Feast of Booths is about. Commemorates the deliverance through the wilderness. The wilderness is the bad place. The wilderness is where, you know, under dominion of, you know, hostile supernatural forces. This is why when Israel goes through the wilderness, the presence of Yahweh is with the camp. Outside the camp is a different story. So God guides them to the Promised Land, the portion, you know, Yahweh's portion for his people in Israel and surrounded by all the other nations that are under dominion of other gods because of Babel and Deuteronomy 32, all that stuff. So what I think is going on with this passage in Numbers 29 is that the Bulls are offered to commemorate Yahweh's deliverance, his triumph over all other gods. He kept his people safe. It has nothing to do with offering two foreign gods. I think that's just, you know, a really significant misreading of the text. So we're not offering the Bulls to kiss up to the other gods or to ask Yahweh for, you know, a show of common grace to those other gods or anything like that. You'll read this in rabbinic material again, just listen to Episode 206. But the whole idea is to thank Yahweh for his deliverance. So that is how I'll handle that here. Again, for details on, you know, Sukkot and there are passages again that connect the observation. There are passages that connect the observation of Sukkot with, again, a future time when the nations are regathered and reclaimed and all that. So again, I tie that all in with the Deuteronomy 32 worldview, the reclaiming of the nations. So for the details, Episode 206. Our next question is from Ed. If the Magi who were not Jewish recognized the signs in the heaven as foretelling the birth of a Jewish king, were there not any other astrologers who recognized this? In particular, it seemed like many sects of Judaism in the Second Temple period, such as the one at Qumran, felt they were living in the time of the coming of the Messiah. Are there any extra biblical references suggesting that others saw these particular signs and interpret them as announcing the imminent coming of the Jewish Messiah? Yeah, I'm going to refer Ed and anyone else who's listening to another article. I'll put this, it may already be there because I brought this up before. I just can't remember which episode, but there's an article by Beckwith on the Jubilee chronology and the Qumran calendar and having something to do with the Messiah. I can't remember exactly what the title is, but the author's name is Beckwith. But the short answer is, yeah, there were other people who by virtue of the calendar system they were using and their beliefs about the calendar were expecting a Messiah. And specifically, I have in mind here the sect at Qumran, whether they be a scenes or somebody else, it's not really an issue here. Whoever they were, they were using a particular calendar. They were using a mathematical calendar and not a strictly astronomy-based calendar. So the short version of this, again, I know I've mentioned this before in the podcast, I just can't recall exactly where, was that you read in the Second Temple book, the book of Jubilees, you read in certain Dead Sea scrolls that you know how history is divided into certain periods. The book of Jubilees, history is divided into Jubilees. That's why it gets its name. So you have these Jubilees cycles and the people at Qumran, this was very important to them, these 49 50-year cycles dividing up history. Now, what the people at Qumran did, again, they used a mathematical calendar, not one that was tied specifically to astronomy. They divided up the year into four quadrants of 90 days, between each one they would put a day. So now you have 364-day calendar. They knew that this did not conform to the strict observation of the heavens. They understood that. Again, Beckwith goes into great detail in his book, not just the article, but his book on calendar and chronology in ancient Judaism and Christianity. So they were aware of this, but they didn't care because they viewed this particular mathematical calendar as reflecting the mind of God. You say, well, why would it reflect the mind of God? Because if you use their calendar and they started their calendar on day four of creation, that was the first calendar day. You say, why day four? Well, that's when the sun, the timekeepers were invented then. So that's when they started their calendar, that was the first day for them. And if you plug in this numerical system, what it produces is that for them, for the people at Qumran, every Sabbath, every festival, every Passover in the Israelite calendar always happened on the same day of each year. It never varied. It was perfect. And they would mock. This is why the people at Qumran separated from the Pharisees in the Second Temple period. They fought with them over calendar because the calendar used in the mainstream Jewish community was an astronomical one and it required the addition of a 13th month every so often to help calculate the date of Passover. And the guys at Qumran would say, this is a human calendar. You're fiddling with this calendar. It doesn't work because you invented it. You're not going with the mathematical precision that God created at the very first. This is a flawed human calendar. We're not going to use a calendar that you have to tinker with. What God intends us to use is something that is untinkerable and you don't need to tinker with it. So they actually split. They left. These are priests. They left the priesthood of Jerusalem, which is where the temple was. And they went out to live in the desert. And then for the rest of their time there, they would pretend. They pretended to have a temple where they observed their calendar in the desert because they believed that the order of the universe, the perfection, the mathematical perfection of the mind of God should be lived out and mined on earth. They believed that they were connected to the angelic priesthood. This is what the angels in heaven are doing. They're doing these things up there on these certain days and at certain intervals. It's always regular. So we need to connect to them. Heaven and earth need to be connected. So they're down there in the desert conducting rituals without a temple. And they produce these esoteric writings about the heavenly temple, their temple, and all this kind of stuff. This is what they're doing.  Well, they might have been crazy, but look at the reason why they're doing it. They believed that their calendar reflected the perfect order that God intended. Now you say, how does all that relate? Well, part of that calendar were these Jubilee cycles. And they actually, Beckwith lays this out in his article, that beginning with day one, the one hundredth, and that was a sacred, another sacred number to the people at Qumran, again you can read Beckwith for why, but the one hundredth 49 year cycle, that would be 49 hundred years, that at the end of that grand set of Jubilee cycles, the Messiah would appear. And if you just plug their system in, they were expecting a Messiah sometime, and it varied because we're going to use 49 or 50 and all that kind of stuff. So Beckwith is playing with the math here. They were expecting the Messiah according to their system sometime between 10 BC and 2 AD. 10 BC and 2 AD is how Beckwith lays it out. Now, if you again take the view of the birth of Jesus that I've argued for here, September 11, 3 BC, it falls in that window. So right around again, the time of the birth, let's say you don't buy the September 11, 3 BC, but somewhere in there, you know, most, the consensus view has Jesus born 6 BC or 4 BC or something like that. You're in that time window. So this is part of the reason that there was this expectation that certainly among the people at Qumran, and of course, you know, people are going to go out and they're going to talk about what the nut cases out in the desert are doing and what they're saying. So there would have been the speculations would have circulated to some degree within the interested community back in the city of Jerusalem and in the wider Judea. So this is directly related to calendar, just how they marked time. This is what they were expecting. Joshua has our last question. Directly after the deluge and also the destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah, there are sexual sins, Noah's nakedness and Lot's drunken incest. Is God trying to indicate that no matter how much he destroys the problem physically, the problem remains? And what man needs is a spiritual remedy instead? You know, I'm not completely sure what Joshua is angling for or asking for here. And here's why. Based on the wording of that question, here's what makes me uncertain about what the point of the question is. Nobody was destroyed in the Noah episode.  So Ham isn't destroyed. Canaan isn't destroyed. I mean, the Canaan is cursed. But nobody's destroyed.  So I have to confess, I'm not really following the question.  It kind of actually never says that. You do have homosexuality in the picture after the two men, the two angels, get into the city and they have that episode with Lot, you know, then the men surround the house and come out, you know, bring those two guys out here that we may know them.  So this is, it's a brewing incident of homosexual rape, you know, at the very least. But that's after they get to the city. We actually have nothing in the biblical text that says that the city was targeted because of sexual sin. So even there, again, in my head, there's a disconnect between the data of the text and the question. So I'm not really sure what Joshua is asking for here.  But I don't want to confuse the targeting with, you know, what happens afterwards or what doesn't happen afterwards in the case of Ham and Canaan and Lot and his daughters-in-laws. Nobody gets destroyed there. So beyond that, you know, I'm not really sure how to answer the question other than to just say, for sure the solution to sin isn't behavioral reform. So if that's the question that the real solution to sin, like these stories can teach us an idea like the real solution for sin is heart change or having a new heart, you know, following the Lord or something, that's certainly true. And it's not just behavioral change or even necessarily, you know, judgment because people are hardhearted. They need new hearts. So if that's the point of the question, yeah, but I'm actually not sure that I'm tracking correctly on what Joshua was asking. Mike, I'll just take a stab at the question and the answer is yes. There you go. Okay. Well, there you go. There you go. It's yes. So you're welcome, Joshua. All right, Mike. Well, that is all of the questions we have for this episode. And is there anything else that we need to discuss? Nope. I think we're good. All right. Sounds good. Well, we appreciate you answering our questions and I appreciate everybody else listening to the Naked Bible Podcast. God bless. Thanks for listening to the Naked Bible Podcast. To support this podcast, visit www.nakedbibleblog.com. To learn more about Dr. Heizer's other websites and blogs, go to www.ermsh.com.


Live from Las Vegas, it's theCUBE! Covering AWS re-invent 2019. Brought to you by Amazon Web Services and Intel, along with its ecosystem partners. Good morning, welcome back to theCUBE's coverage of AWS re-invent 19 from Las Vegas. Lisa Martin with Stu Miniman. Stu, this is day three of two sets of coverage for theCUBE and this expo hall has not gotten any less busy. Tons of people still here. Lisa, 65,000 I'm sure. The throats are a little bit raw, the feet are tired, but there's so much good information and yeah, excited to dig in with some more of our guests. Yep, so much good information and that we have Dell EMC back. Yes, we had them yesterday. There's more to talk about today. Please welcome a couple of guests. We've got Nick Brackney, Senior Consultant Cloud Product Marketing. Welcome to theCUBE your first time. Yeah, thank you. Happy to have you. And Bob, Ganley, I feel like it's been about 18 hours, maybe 20 Senior Consultant Cloud Product Marketing. Welcome back. Thank you. So guys, lots of news, like AWS news shot out of the cannon. One of the things though that you can't help but talk about at any event is multi-cloud. Organizations, CIOs tell us on theCUBE all the time we've inherited a multi-cloud, sometimes Dave Volante calls it a crime scene, right? For various reasons, it's not necessarily strategic but it is becoming a reality. Talk to us about what Dell EMC is seeing with your customer base with respect. Sorry, that's for Nick, it's a multi-cloud. What are you seeing? How are you helping customers navigate this? Yeah, I think that there's a lot of diversity and needs for our customer base and it's really challenging for any one vendor to provide all of the solutions that they need. And so that's where it's really about being able to offer them choices and giving them support to be in the right cloud for their workload. And so, as we talk about this idea of cloud in the state you said, you know, if they're in one or more clouds, it's really important that they have consistency across those clouds. Because otherwise, the crime scene turns into something that's a management headache for everyone. Yeah, Nick, I wonder if we could tease that out a little bit because consistency's important. When I think about multi-vendor in the data center for years, VMware did a pretty good job of extracting a certain layer. I'm a little worried that we're trying to recreate some of the silos of the past in giant cloud environment. So how do we make sure we learn from the past and because skill sets are very different. The products underneath are very different. So while there might be certain point applications that I might need, the message here at Amazon is, they've got the broadest and deepest environments. If you're doing multi-cloud, they're gonna do one of them. So, you know, bring us inside your customers and how we make sure that we don't end up with that crime scene that they've talked about and all the pieces. I think first off, you can't look at technology in a vacuum. You really have to be thinking about people and processes. What can a business actually consume? You know, we run into a lot of talk about containers and containers is a great path forward to go cloud native. And that's really easy if you're starting from scratch. If you have a thousand apps though that currently sit in on-premises. It's really challenging to make that move. And you know, which ones do I replatform? Which ones do I lift and shift? And so, I think that's one of the things we're doing with, you know, our work with the VMware Cloud Foundation is we have one platform that can handle both virtualization and containers. So you can have an orderly progression towards cloud native. Talk about the people part of it. I think we talked about this a little bit yesterday, Bob. And that's actually something that has come up in a lot of our conversations. It's not just about the technology. For many reasons, how do you help the people? Because part of that's cultural. And that's really a challenging change to undergo. You know, I think you have to meet them where they are, right? And that's, I read an article and someone said that for analytics, that most CEOs still are using Excel. They're all these other really advanced analytics things, but that's what they're most comfortable with. So when you look at the fact that all these organizations have really standardized on VMware, that's a really easy move for them to make because you can take your existing skill sets. You know, the investments you've made in the software-defined data center, and now you can extend them to the cloud. And you can take the existing best practices that you have in your data center and you can move those to the cloud. So you're not surprised when you get there with all the configurations and all the management, all the security challenges. And I want to add to that actually because I think one of the under looked aspects of this whole thing is the idea that, like you said, if you have silos of operation, then you've got challenges. And so I like to say security, for example, begins with who are you, what do you have access to? So if you have different ways of doing that on-prem than in cloud, you're by definition at a risk of your state. Same thing for compliance. Same thing for automation. If you've got multiple different tools to use, you know, it's just harder to do. So I think, you know, the consistency thing is very, very important. Excellent. Bobby, you're the straight man for my next question here because if you listen to our hosts here of AWS, they don't use that multi-cloud word. Okay. Yet the biggest conversation of discussion that I've had across with AWS, with customers, and with the ecosystem here has been outposts. And absolutely, Amazon might not even use the hybrid term, but absolutely is that extension between consistency between the public cloud and in my data centers.  Sure.  I mean, Andy comes out and says 97% of IT revenue is still on-prem.  I think it comes down to the following. Investment protection, trust, and choice. And investment protection is about, organizations today have a huge investment in the way they're doing business now. And clearly VMware is the, you know, lion's share of on-prem virtualization today. So it makes sense to extend that investment toward hybrid cloud. And there's a very natural path to do that. From the perspective of trust, when you look at on-prem infrastructure, who better to work with than Dell EMC? I mean, we're number one in HCI, number one in servers, number one in storage. We know how to do on-prem. And now with Dell Technologies Cloud, we're extending that to a very consistent hybrid cloud model with AWS. And the third thing is, you know, choice, which is Outposts is interesting because it's a completely managed service. Some organizations want that managed service. What we bring to the table with Dell Technologies Cloud is either Dell Technologies Cloud Platform, which is you manage it the way you normally manage it, or VMware Cloud on Dell EMC, which is a completely managed service. So we have the data centers of service offering, we have the you manage it, Mr. Customer, which aligns with the way they're doing business. And I think last but not least is this whole idea of cloud economics and this concept of allowing people to pay for things by the drink, which is something that, you know, we're helping organizations do with their on-prem. Bob, actually just want to make sure I understand when we talk about that managed service, the Outpost solutions with VMware is expected in 2020. Does that then roll under the Dell Technology Cloud offering on VMware? I just want to make sure how that is expected to go. Yeah, so no it doesn't because that's essentially the Amazon hardware with the VMware stack on it, on-premises. And what we're offering for data centers of service solution is VMware Cloud on Dell EMC, formerly known as Project Dimension, which is the trusted Dell EMC hardware with the verified VMware stack very tightly integrated so it's cloud-like operations on-prem. Yeah, it's a similar consumption model, similar design points, but different hardware stacks. Well, multiple consumption models. Which is, I think, yeah, I was going to say one of the other things you have to look at too, when you're thinking about why now, why is this happening? And I think it's because people are starting to realize something that we've been saying for a long time, which is that cloud isn't a place, it's an operating model. And so by being able to bring that into the data center, what you're doing is you're extending it to more workloads, and I think that's great for customers. That's what they want, and that's what we're trying to build ourselves. What are some, Bob, a question for you. Some of the, aligning with Stu's question. This week, since the announcement of Outpost, what Amazon is doing there, announced last year, coming to fruition, now, what are some of the things that you're hearing around the event from Dell EMC customers? Are they understanding what that opportunity is for them? Yeah, and we've been doing this for a while, right? So VMware Cloud on Dell EMC has been general availability since VMworld of 2019. We announced it in 2018. We've got tons of customers that are very interested, thousands of customers running within VMware Cloud on AWS, and now looking at this data center as a service solution as an extension to that on-prem. The thing that's cool about it is that they don't have to touch the hardware, they don't have to touch the software, it all gets managed remotely, but it's used just like on-prem infrastructure, right? So it's a great solution. Nick, one of the things that always gets talked about here is there's a big shift from Apex to Apex at this show. One of the things that surprises me is customers get all excited. Amazon comes out with new feature and they said, hey, we're going to give you insight and we're going to save you 30% over what you were paying last year, just because you probably weren't configuring it great.  But Dell's been doing some interesting things, going more cloud native with the economic model. Maybe speak a little bit to that. I mean, I think it's something that's great. Cloud economics makes it easy to get going with a small investment and scale out and move more quickly and be more agile. And so what we wanted to do was bring that same agility and ability to kind of innovate and not have the cost be a barrier by then extending that across our portfolio with Dell Technologies on demand. So that's really about whether you want to do metered usage, whether you want a subscription, or whether I want to purchase hardware up front, wait till I'm going to hit the switch and turn it on, and then I'll start getting built. But then I have the idea, the same thing as cloud, where it's this idea of unlimited capacity at your fingertips, right? It's not actually unlimited. We sometimes see that even some clouds run out of space, but you're able to move quicker. You don't have to wait those three, four, six weeks for the hardware to come in because it's already sitting there. Well in legacy businesses don't have that much time because there are invariably in every industry, there is a born in the cloud company that is moving faster, has a different mindset, and it's probably chomping at the bit right behind them, take over that business if that legacy enterprise isn't able to work fast enough. Absolutely, but what really makes this really interesting is that we're still offering you more choices, right? So the thing is, is there are certain workloads that break cloud economics, whether it's massive storage that, you know, I always tell people, you spin up and spin down VMs, you never delete data because that is super valuable to your business. Or, you know, we find certain workloads that are steady state, right? You know, cloud is really great when you're scaling up, scaling down, when you're flipping off the switch of the lights when you leave the room. If you leave it on all the time, it can add up. And so it's really nice, not just about bringing the cloud economics into the data center, but by bringing that consistent experience across both the data center and your cloud, is now you can let the business requirements and the application requirements determine what the best place to put the workload is. Sorry, so Bob, one of the big themes at this show is transformation, you got it on your hat. When we talk about the cloud native space, we already said they were the cloud native companies. They were born in the cloud. We said there are many companies that are becoming born again in the cloud. You know, bring us inside a little bit, what you're seeing, the discussion point is you just can't incrementally get there. It requires executive management, involvement, and it is a radical change in the way you build your applications, and that has a ripple effect through everything that you do. Yeah, absolutely does. When you think about it, there is an evolution happening in application architectures. And that evolution is from physical to virtual to now infrastructures of service to add additional efficiency and automation and orchestration. Now container as a service, as we see organizations moving toward cloud native and containers to platform as a service and function as a service. And when you think about that, organizations need to bring their existing investments in virtualized applications forward as they're adding on containers as they're looking at this next generation cloud native. So we believe the right solution is to preserve that investment and bring that forward. So we've been adding cloud native, standard upstream Kubernetes distribution to our Dell Technologies Cloud Platform, and that allows organizations to extend their investment. So that's one thing is that architectural evolution. The second thing is what I call the operational evolution that's happening as well. And the operational evolution is, cloud has revolutionized the way people look at IT because it's so easy to use. So what we're doing is bringing that operational evolution to the data center as well where we're completely integrating the on-prem infrastructure so that you can lifecycle manage it in an automated fashion. And we're doing that both for infrastructures of service and now for container as a service for Kubernetes. So we're excited about both the architectural and operational evolution. Well, Nick, I'd be curious, your viewpoint of this show. It's really a interesting mix of you've got enterprise, you've got developers, you've got everything in between and personas. So bring us inside some of the conversations you're having, how you worked with some of those different personas. Well, I think it's really interesting because the shift towards containers means the shift towards DevOps. And when you're looking at that, I think what's lost in the way is when I talked to my friends who've spent a lot of time as IT ops folks, they think very differently than developers. When something goes wrong, their immediate reaction is, please roll it back. Whereas a developer thinks, hold on, let me add some more code to this and we'll fix it that way. And so I think the challenge right now is, the burden is shifting and it's shifting towards developers. And one of the things I think with our solution and hopefully project Pacific with VMware, what's coming down the path where they're injecting containers into vSphere, all of that, hopefully what's going to come out of that is, you're going to make the job a little bit easier for developers.  That's really a big challenge. Then when I'm at a show like this, I hear it from both sides. So it's really fascinating to hear the different perspectives and they're not necessarily aligned. Yeah, it's just the quick note on that. In Werner's keynote, he puts out the giant thing on the board. Everything fails all the time. That's not what the enterprise was used to in the old world and that's what that transformation is a little bit uncomfortable for many of them. And speaking of being uncomfortable, Bob, you talked about cloud, especially next gen cloud brings up opportunity, a lot of opportunity, but with it comes architectural change, as you mentioned, operational change, but cultural change. Final questions and thoughts, Nick, from you. What are in the respect of the opportunity, but those changes, what are some of the biggest mistakes that you're seeing enterprises make and how can they avoid those? Yeah, so the first thing is, I think that people have been sweeping mandates. When people say cloud first as a mandate, I think what they're missing in that is there's so much exuberance, they're not thinking through, what does the workload need? What does the business need? And cloud should absolutely be a big part of anyone's strategy moving forward, but you need to be thoughtful about what you do. And Pat Gelsinger talks about there's three laws, the laws of physics, the laws of economics, and the laws of the land. I always joke around, we still haven't managed to find a way to travel faster than the speed of light, so latency is always an issue. And then the second thing is, around the shared responsibility model, when you move to infrastructure as a service, people think, wow, they're taking care of everything, this is super easy. And what they haven't always figured out is that they're still on the hook for a lot of things, from a security perspective, from a manageability perspective, from a data protection perspective.  Guys, good stuff, always so much to talk about. Thank you both for joining Stu and me on the program today. Bob, I'll probably see you again at the airport tonight. No doubt. We appreciate you joining Stu and me. Thank you. And stick around on theCUBE, because later today, Andy Jassy, AWS CEO is going to be on. But for now, I'm Lisa Martin for Stu Miniman. Thanks for watching theCUBE.


Stevenson falls 64 to 60 to lie combing here at Owings Mills gymnasium Glen Clark with coach Jackie Boswell coach a team battle back they were down 14 in the second half they showed an awful lot of heart and get back into this game what was the difference and coming up just a little bit short. Well I mean differences a couple questionable calls I'm never blaming on the referees but that was a couple questionable calls at the end there but you know that's not the part we're gonna focus on we're gonna focus on like you said the heart that we showed to get back into this game to be able to tie it up force them to make a shot hopefully that shows us what we're capable of doing because I'm just not sure that we have seen that out of us yet and I think that that's the part that we're just gonna focus on and you know we got to take some time off right now for exams but we're gonna come back and we're just gonna keep doing the little things you know making the easy layups making the free throws and it's it's a process so we just got to keep working at it. One of the things that jumped out of me the play your veterans right you had Brandi and Hannah make the shots when you needed to have somebody make shots down the stretch how important is that moving forward they sort of carry this team. Well I think it's very important and I think that they know it they feel the pressure we've we've caught them out on it that we need them to step up and do it and it's not that they don't want to I mean you know we we think that they just don't want to come out but you know they're working hard every day in practice and it's all gonna pay off and I think we just have to be patient a little bit and and they showed it today hopefully again they not just proved it to everybody else that already believes in them but hopefully they proved it to themselves. You mentioned the free throw so you had a stretch there like in the third quarter where you're making free throw after free throw after free throw and then the fourth it kind of disappears is there anything that you can sort of explain about you know the sort of ebbs and flows of the free throw line this season. No I mean you know we shoot the ball really well in practice so it's not something we saw coming so it's just a mental thing and we got to make sure so the fact that we did it in the third quarter shows that we can do it and again we just got to believe in ourselves a little bit more. Coach it was a heck of an effort to get back into this one best of luck moving forward and we'll see you next week. Great thank you. She's coach Jackie Goswell. I'm Glenn Clark for GoMustangSports.com.


Bingo! We're back! 4 o'clock rock here on Hawaii, the state of clean energy with Ray Starling and me, hosting Dr. Fritz Rettberg, who is an energy researcher from the University of Technology in Dortmund, Germany, and part of the German Hawaiian Energy Symposium going on today right now at UH Medical School, the Cancer Center in Kakaako. Welcome to the show, Fritz. Thank you so much. I have you here. But let's have a formal introduction, Ray. What can we say about Fritz? Well, Fritz is here representing European interests who are interested in German interests that are interested in doing business here in the place where things are really happening with renewable energy. And so Fritz, as PhD, has been in, and I heard him talk today. He is very, very knowledgeable about what the things are that we need to think about going forward. So I'm very happy. We stole him away. We actually pulled him out of the conference that was going on. And hopefully we'll get back for some drinks later. But we brought him here to chat with us a little bit. Okay, for context, Ray, tell us a little about the conference itself. Well, the conference actually was sponsored by several groups, mostly the German... German American Chamber of Commerce. German American Chamber of Commerce. I have Los Angeles. We talked to him last week. Right. Okay. And also the Blue Planet Foundation was doing the big sponsorship here. And there's several other groups that were involved, including my old group, Hawaii Energy. So we had a number of different speakers from Germany who wanted to talk about what their thoughts were about what we need here now to make things move forward. So this is a technology, energy technology type conference. Is that what it is? Right. Right. So from your side of the pond, as they say, why is this interesting? Why is this conference here in Hawaii interesting to you? Because as far as I understood, you have the highest potentials for renewable energies in the whole world. So when you think about Germany or let's say Europe, as I said at the conference, I learned you have 300 days of sun in the year. We have 300 days of rain in the year. That's at least what I'm feeling. But even Germany has 30% of renewables in the power grid. And so when I think about and imagine what Hawaii could do with this potential, that's a hot spot for renewable energy in the world, in my opinion. Well, in Europe, Germany is a leader. Yeah, we are. Yeah, renewable energy. Why? Why has that happened? Yeah, because we had several years ago, we had a we had the start of a quiet, successful law for for renewable energies that guaranteed citizens, normal people that invested into photovoltaic that they get a guaranteed feed-in tariff that they get subsidies for the investment. And and so we turned the energy system around what was kind of a top-down system in former times went bottom up. And that is why we were successful because the people had money in this new system. And they were getting money out of it for 20 years, maybe in a guaranteed way. And that's what really worked in the end. And that is what what made now at the moment, our utilities, they, they felt the need to act now and to become more innovative. And that was quite successful. Is this driven off climate change or the price of oil? Yeah, both, both of it. So Germany is is a country that yeah, won't be one of the big victims of climate change due to our situation in the world. But but it was climate change. It was. But first of all, it was a change in our society in the early 80 years. The Green Party was was was raising and they they brought some new ideas of sustainability of resource efficiency into our society. And that is now a kind of a common sense. And and each of our political parties now is on this road to more efficiency. And so and so and it was, it was a it was a bottom up approach in Germany. And of course, the need and especially it was Fukushima that that brought us to to to the point to get out of nuclear power. And at the same time we we said it doesn't make any sense to get out of nuclear power and still burn coal and and have this CO2 emission for our for our growth and and our power demand. And so we said we have the technologies and it is a big global market to be, yeah, to be a leader in renewable energy. You even then, even as this evolved, you were thinking of export? Of course, we are, I think I'm not I'm not Angela Merkel. But as I as a private person, I would say the the German economy always thinks about export, especially when when it comes to technologies. And what we what we learned is that that it isn't technology issue to get more resource efficiency and to get more renewables in the power grid worldwide. And as we understand ourselves, we deliver high tech into the world. And that's what we tried with the with the energy turned around in Germany as well. Okay, so here you are in Hawaii. I imagine that German technology German energy technology has also visited other places. Yeah, we're not the only place. And so part of this at least part of it is you want to learn you want to explain you want to share all that but you also want to make money. So what is the business model to come here come to the conference, talk about your technology? What is ultimately the business model? I'm not sure if I'm the right person to answer your question. You know, I'm a researcher. So I'm working at the university. But I think the goal for the for the companies that are with us here, and they want to sell their products. That's that's for sure. I mean, the black boxes, software, no, no, no, they're coming with, let's say storage systems, or they're coming with new kinds of of PV modules. And they're coming with software as well. That's that's for sure. But many of them come out of the of the, let's say, combined heat and power, combined storage electricity, or maybe electric cars and then so on. That's where where they're coming from. We don't even know yet, right? There'll be more inventions. There'll be more devices. There'll be more technology coming soon from Germany. Yeah, it will. But but it will come from from all over the world. So when when I think about what what California, for example, is doing at the moment, they are doing a real technology policy for renewable energy. They made this tender for for for a big amount of storage. And I think it is all about it's not all about money from from from my side of view. It is about sharing experiences. And it is about, yeah, let's say, avoiding mistakes that companies that countries like like Germany did in the last years. And maybe countries that come after us in the in the energy turnaround. It's no need that they do the same mistakes. And they have other opportunities at the moment. For example, in Germany, one of our problems is we bought we bought everywhere there. There are PV plants on the rooftops of the houses in all over all over Germany. But at the same time, we have no storage systems. Because the storage technology wasn't there when we started to to expand our photovoltaics. And now at the moment, I would say if Hawaii and and other countries around are going their way to more photovoltaics and to decentralize energy systems, always think it with storage and not without. So that was a mistake we made. But there was no chance to write that down. That's going to be the final exam. Very important.   And for the same reason, you want to do right by, you know, the global transfer of knowledge about the subject for the benefit of humankind, I think that's good. And the question is, how did you get into that? Did you get into energy because of the technology or because of progressive thinking or both? Me personally, yeah, because of the progressive thinking. It is it was a feeling that it is a an issue where where I can do things that really matter. For example, so that's why I'm not with a company. I'm in a research institute. It's a kind of an idealism to do a little bit for for the better world in the future. Oh, my God. Yeah, common good. We love the common good. Yeah, but that's that's research, you know, I don't think that that companies or politicians are thinking that way. It's not their job to think in that way. It should be maybe, but it isn't. Maybe someday. Yeah, maybe someday. So tell us how you spend your day. What kind of researching are you doing? We are, we are researching, for example, on on the technological components of of the smart grid that might be voltage control systems that might be the connection of electricity and IT systems. But we are we are doing a we have a great focus or a big focus on electric mobility for example, that is one of our issues in in Germany that we said mobility mean cars. Yeah, I mean mean means transportation means transportation. And I would say it doesn't make any sense if we are all stuck in traffic in the future with electric cars, you know, it is about a new kind of mobility that that we have to think about. And it doesn't make any sense that we that we use the same energy for three kilometers and 3000 kilometers. And so it's about this intermodal concept. For example, for for cities, do we have bikes connected with with car sharing and electric cars and trains and buses and so on. And the the combination of all this with alternative engines. That's the our question for for the future. This is what you think about. I envy you. Yeah, that's not your job. Yeah, I have I always say I've maybe besides you, I have the best job in the world. So what did you talk about in the in the program today? It was it was a quiet, quite specific topic. It was about future distribution grids, or more or less about the experiences we made in Germany with the energy turnaround. So the historic German experiences. Yeah, yeah, it was on the German experience. And it was about the question. But but we didn't came to an answer. In which way, for example, Hawaii and other regions in the world are planning their expansion of photovoltaics, if they plan it in a way that they say we want to have it everywhere, we can have it or is it the way that they say, we want to have it where it makes sense. And that's a difference. Yeah, you know, and the question is, what do you do in your urban areas like like downtown Honolulu? And what do you do in your in your rural areas in the north? Will there be, let's say, yeah, islands, energy islands in on the island, and or will there be a connected grid or on grid, off grid solutions? That was what we're talking about. So during the day, did it ever occur to you to move here and stay here and be with us? Yeah, why not? Ray, how did he do? How did Fritz do it? He did very well, actually. And I was hopeful, continuing to ask some questions that he didn't get to. Yeah, we're going to do that right after this break. Good. We'll take a short break. It's Fritz Redberg, a PhD that's a doctor at the University of Technology Dortmund, Germany. And he's here on the German Hawaiian energy symposium, telling us the German experience, which we need to know about in any global evaluation of energy. Hello, this is Martin Despeng. I want to get you get excited about my new show, which is humane architecture for Hawaii and beyond. We're going to broadcast on Tuesdays, 5 p.m. here on Think Tech Hawaii. Looking to energize your Friday afternoon, tune in to stand the energy man at 12 noon. Aloha Friday here on Think Tech Hawaii. I'm Ethan Allen, host of likeable science here on Think Tech Hawaii. Every Friday afternoon at 2 p.m., you'll have a chance to come and listen and learn from scientists around the world. Scientists who talk about their work in meaningful, easy to understand ways. They'll come to appreciate science as a wonderful way of thinking, way of knowing about the world. You'll learn interesting facts, interesting ideas. You'll be stimulated to think more. Please come join us every Friday afternoon at 2 p.m. here on Think Tech Hawaii for likeable science with me, your host Ethan Allen. We're back. We're live. We're here with Fritz Redberg, an idealist, also a technological researcher in energy and the University of Technology, Dortmunder. And there were things that we didn't quite explore, Ray, about exactly what Fritz said today in his remarks. You want to cover that? Well, I wanted to take what you did say and move it forward a little bit and get you to tell us what you think the best kind of what what could Hawaii use if it went out and got the best of everything out there that you were talking about storage and renewables and so forth. Who's doing it right? Who should we look to besides Germany, of course, in terms of what we need to do here? That's that's a very good and a very, let's say, comprehensive question. So yeah, Germany is is doing, let's say, on the on the large scale grid where we are connected with the European grid and we are compared to Hawaii, a quite big country, not compared to the US, but compared to Hawaii. So I think what you can learn from Germany is the use of several technology within one, let's say, holistic system. But I think you have to look to two areas in the world that are more like an island. So, for example, Singapore or whatever, they are doing really, really cool things in their urban areas when when it comes to use of ICT and use of flexibilities in the city. But I think it's no need to have to have it all at once. So start with the right things. So and the question is what are the right things. So and I think the first one I would do, but that's that's my my opinion, when I would live on a spot on Earth that has 300 days of sun, I would build photovoltaics. To be honest, if you have 300 days, why not do it with this photovoltaics? Buy some some storage and then the question is, will there be, let's say, bigger storage or will there be many, many decentralized storage in each of the houses? But what's your answer? I think it depends on what you are talking about. When when you're talking about downtown, I think you should have some bigger storage connected to the to the power grid and at the substations, for example, to use it in a in a grid-confuser way. When when we talk about smaller communities, maybe in the north or off grid solutions, then it is about really decentralized systems. That means a photovoltaic with their own storage, which fits together and which enables, let's say, a house or a smaller community to be, yeah, to to suffer from their own energy. So that's it. So what comes to mind is the dark side. You know, you're very idealistic, so are we. But I would like to discuss with you where barriers are. Where where are the problems that hold us back from, you know, a glorious future? And I'm asking you to see this globally. What's stopping us? Several interests of several big players in the world, but that's nothing new. So one one example might be again electric mobility or electric cars. The the conventional automotive industry wasn't able to build really good electric cars for the last decades. They should have been able and if they have, if there was a will, they would have been able to do it. But they didn't. And so someone like Tesla came and they built a car and they made it disruptive technology and they said to all the older guys in the automotive, see what happens when we are doing it. And I think it's the same situation worldwide in the power grid. There are all paths of technology and of money and they are really really big investments. You may not underestimate that when you invest into a power grid, you are talking about times of 50 years, 70 years for your return on investment. And that's one one of the points. So they all see their business model are crushed and yeah, what should they do? But I think more and more smaller companies are common and they are, let's say, hunting the big ones a bit and that's a good point. But this is what the problem worldwide is.  They should have it and they have to learn now that they have to bring their organizations into a new world and into a new kind of business and that's not easy for such big companies. So I think we should, yeah, it will happen. How would you suggest that we go about pushing that effort here? Yeah, it is a kind of a political question. I think when people decide and when politicians decide that they want to give incentives for example for the people that invest into innovative components or invest into renewable energies, that would be the first step. The second step could be what we just discussed today to yeah, increase the prices. So to make it more expensive in a political process. And so I said, I went to a store here and I saw a price tag for cigarettes and it was about 13 dollars. So it works. If you don't want the people to smoke, make the cigarettes expensive. So and if you don't want the people to use conventional energy and kilowatt hours that have big emissions, then make it expensive. Should work. But talking about that, Fritz, you know, the basic rule, we talk about this all the time, the basic rule is if you're going to move in a transformation to new and relatively speaking expensive technology, you have to replace the infrastructure. Well, we live in a world of aging infrastructure really everywhere. I'm sure in Germany too. Absolutely. And people, they built a bridge years ago and they go down the decades thinking, well, the bridge is okay, it's still standing. We're not going to put any more money into that bridge, but the bridge is getting old and you need new bridges and people are really shocked to find they're going to have to re-maintain the bridge, replace the bridge. Okay, so we are really unhappy with all the cost that's coming down the pike on infrastructure. This is one of those costs and when you lump them all together, infrastructure plus energy, it's really expensive and people are sensitive on that and they call for cheap. In Hawaii, they call for cheap. Yeah, in Germany. How are we going to fund this? Because at the end of the day it becomes an economic hyphen, political, you know, resistance point and people don't want to spend more and they don't fully understand, I think, that in order to go the distance to transform to clean energy, you have to pay. Yeah, you will have to pay, but you will have to pay, let's say again in the idealistic way, for a better future. It's like an insurance. You have insurances without knowing if you really need it in your life, but you're paying for it because you're paying for a secure future and it's the same with renewable energies. We have to learn that we have to quantify the things that are only quality measures at the moment. What is better air worth in the future? What is it worth that the oceans do not rise up? So I don't know. I have no number for it, but we have to think about it. It is huge. It's life and death. It is huge and it will be huge than building new greener infrastructures and power systems. So to build the electricity or energy future will be cheaper in the end than to deal with all the threats that will come through climate change. I'm quite sure about that. But people understand that. Yeah, we have to make that. I hope Donald Trump makes people understand that. Not optimistic about it. So Ray, can you summarize and sort of wrap around this, the program and Fritz and the kinds of things you've been talking about? Well, obviously we're trying to pull together everything that we've learned in one day here and actually we need a week or two. But what Fritz and his colleagues who came to talk to us today about what we're trying to do is give us their best ideas about what they see that Hawaii could use. And I'm wondering in the back of my head if you're available for sabbaticals to become insurers. One of the things we have here on the island is we have too much of just the guys that we've always seen and having somebody come in and open up and tell us, hey, we tried that and that didn't work. It's a reality. We tried that and it did work. So maybe we can find a way to get you to come and spend some time at UH every time. Every time you want me to have it, I would be here. I promise. We'll have to do something like that because it's been really good hearing you and the others talk about what's out there. Then we have a thought about. Let me say that it's great to have you here. It's great to have the connection with Germany. It's great to be able to look at it from two distant points like that, compare notes, reality test, this we're doing good, this we're not doing good, and to learn from you. And we really appreciate you coming around and sharing. We greatly appreciate your progressive and idealist way of looking at it. And thanks so much for coming on our show, friends. Thanks so much for having me. Thank you so much. As they say, aloha. Aloha.


They love to compete and and and so that's always going to be at the forefront of what we do. That's not going to change now Are we gonna Go after there's gonna we're always looking to a lot of things and go through whether we're talking about college players pro players We're going to turn over every single stone that we can that's going to be a part of the process But the the character is always going to be at the forefront of that From your vantage point through for non padded practices. How's the quarterback competition looking? It's been great and and look we have a lot of competition at every position I thought Dave Archer said it well the other day when he was talking about Joe Montana Going in the San Francisco's camp fighting for his job And that's the mindset at every position everyone's here knowing they're they're fighting not only with the players here for Further jobs, but also outside the building We have an excellent personnel staff that's Looking at every other roster and we're always trying to bring in competition from outside the building But at that position it's been great We're really excited about where where Desmond is excited about where Marcus is both players Obviously you see the physical tools and the traits. They're mobile They run around that you see the throws that they're making out on the field So they both have all the physical traits, but the the the makeup really the way they prepare The the mental the types of teammates they are we've been very pleased with both players and we're excited about that How do some of the players and fans are having trouble squaring? Ridley's one-year suspension with the six-year suspension for for Dushan How does we how you explain that to the folks that don't understand the first question you asked and now you're asking In a different way that's that's one of those vet savvy for you for young guys out here That's a vet savvy move right there. That's the But again, look it's our job. That's a league matter and and we have enough on our plate here So we have to focus on the things we can control Third time he backs the same question. There you go. Did y'all get together and work together on this? I like I like the teamwork because I thought y'all were kind of nemesis, but I guess there's a little teamwork going on here I like it. It's impressive So so since he did that for you gonna let him take the first question with the coach next time You're gonna say the same question again, but you said the right type of guy Did you feel the show was the right type of guy? That's we've had that discussion. We've we're not gonna continue to rehash the same thing We're not gonna do that. We've talked about that. We talked about that matter and we're moving forward Terry if I were to talk to you in three weeks four weeks That's it How do you define a successful training camp? What would you tell me three weeks and and I would say it's it's all about the Competitiveness that we see out there and the way that if we have players fighting and competing for jobs and that's what's most important The number one factor you're you're evaluating right now is does the player know what to do? We want to be the smartest toughest most competitive football team the NFL So the number one factor is do they know what to do? Can they take it from the meeting room onto the field and can they do it the way they're being coached? And they can they do it with high effort that's what's most important and when you see that at every position and when you see the Competition that's when you know you're gonna have a good football team because once we get into the season You want a team that's gonna go out there and fight and compete and do literally whatever they can do to win every single game Whatever day of the week it is so when you see the competition out here You're not gonna see it on game day if you don't see it out here So when you have players that are out there competing, that's when I would say you have a successful training camp No, he's on pup right now, and we haven't put a timetable on it But he's working with the trainers and working to get himself ready and what he is he'll come out and compete Again, we're not gonna yeah not gonna put a timetable on it But but I know he's out there doing his rehab and and again when he's ready to come out He'll come out and compete Your We're not gonna you can ask that question about any player on the roster right now in any position we'd answer it the same way We're gonna we're always trying to build the roster the right way and every decision We make is gonna be to the betterment of the team as a whole and so with with any player We had 90 players in the roster you ask that question And we'd answer it the same way Terry I think the team has only announced that he had offseason surgery Specific No, it's yeah, and he had offseason surgery he's going through the rehab process and and we're not going to put a time to one When it comes to roster construction Can you kind of give us a little behind-the-scenes look at what's going on in the building? You know, we see a lot of what's going on out here But what's kind of the scouting department looking at right now in terms of getting to a 53 minute touchdown? Yeah, so so right now the scouting department. They're they're obviously here every day and evaluating the players here and We have a really inclusive Cohesive process that everyone in the building is working on the same thing And so the coaches have their evaluations the scouts have their evaluations and we do that on a daily basis What the scouting department is also doing again is they're looking outside the building and you see every day They're monitoring the waiver wire. They're looking at players that are on the street having bringing in workouts and and look assessing the other rosters and it's a I think sometimes people feel like once you've made the 53 man roster at the end that that's it and but it's not we're looking for the the right 53 plus 16 at cut down, but then we're looking for the right 4-8 on a weekly basis And that's going to change whether it's training camp whether it's during the season whether it's during the off season It's a fluid process and we're always looking to bring in competition at every single position so I'd say the scouting department is They're working hard evaluating the players here in the building and it's not just what you see out on the field It's it's in the meeting room and it's what players are doing off the field It's what they're doing and with the performance staff and in the equipment room It's how they treat people around because we're looking for the right types of players And it's not literally just what you're doing on the football field Are you endearing to your teammates and the people in the building because to have the right ethos to have the Right culture and to build the type of team. We're going to build There are a lot of factors involved in that and we evaluate every every part of it I mean do you want to invest more? Do you look at more like tackle as the investment center as the investment you would totally at the player like how does that Square because most teams have different every team seems to have different philosophy Yeah, and it depends. It's all a moving target You can have a certain amount of money budgeted that you want to spend at a certain place But it's always going to depend on the player. We're not going to say hey We're not going to spend a lot of money on a center Or we're not going to spend a lot of money on the right tackle because if you get the right player there Then you'll adjust so so I think that just depends on it's a player by player basis really at any position You can go to the some people might say oh, we're not going to pay a nose tap a lot of money But if it's the right type of guy that's disruptive and we're looking for multipliers We're looking for players that make people around them better And you can find that at any position and when you do find it then you want to invest in it But at the same time Yeah, good question Dean was he was awesome I think you guys had to bleep him out a few times. Um, he was a cool thing about Dean too is that's who he truly is He's that passionate and he really cares and loves his team But it's it's we're measuring it and literally everything they do no different than when a college So the college scouts are out right now and they're already working on the 23 class and they're in the buildings right now And they don't just talk to the head coach or the position coach They talk to everybody in that building whether we're talking about academic services. They talk about the previous teammates They talk about talk to people on campus. We want to know who those human beings truly are and it's it's not a perfect It's not like a perfect science that we can always but it's uh, it's every part of it So again when the players are here, we're looking at literally every part of what they do And and who there are as human beings Not just if they're making the plays on the field But how do you respond when you have a bad day when you have a bad play when you get beat?  Are you flying down feel? To trying to make that play and and coach does a good job of seeing every single thing everything the players are doing There's a reason for whether when we have the special teams period I've seen places that they kind of take that time off and they're not really into it But on those periods when we're doing the jammer drill What are you doing out there on those plays and how are you handling every single drill because it matters When we're doing the open field tackling drill, how are you doing that? So I think it's it's the way how you do anything is how you do everything and How you handle not just when you're in one-on-one drills and you're making plays there But every single part of it when you're on the back side of a player, are you flying downfield? Are you blocking downfield for a teammate? In the meetings, are you helping other people again? Are you a multiplier and do you endear to your teammate? So it's really every part of it We're in a good place and not to compare it To last year, but we're in a good place I feel like you really you really feel it with the players that these guys They really care about each other and I don't even know how you it's tough to put your finger on and I can't tell you One specific thing or one specific moment when you see it But these these players they really love and care about each other and and they take care of each other and It's hard out there And I know we had a couple scuffles the other day and it's hard because these guys are They're taking it you want to take it right to the line and you want guys to fight and compete But then you have to be able to have that emotional control and pull back and it's not always easy But I believe we have the right culture and the guys are going to handle that But it's a this is a team that really loves and cares about each other I know there was always some uncertainty with Goldman in terms of how he was going to project, but Say it again Goldman I know there was always some level of uncertainty given his last couple years But there's retirement. What's your level of concern now on the defensive line in terms of meeting another body up there? Yes, like you say with Goldman anytime you sign a player that time of the year, there's a chance for that and And and so we supported him and and you know, we root for him moving forward I'll say on the defensive line. We like the competitiveness obviously great He showed up in outstanding shape and and he looks the best he's he's ever looked he's been outstanding and There's a lot of competition outside of him, but again like at every position We're looking and we're always looking we're looking to bring in competition So we see some good things in this building right now with some of the veterans and some of the young guys But we're always looking outside the building Whether we're talking about signing players off the street trading for players And it's not going to stop as the season starts a guy like rush. We signed our panel We signed those guys during the year it doesn't it doesn't end at the final cut down. We're always trying to find help Are you confident all that somebody might pop free somewhere around the league between now and Season well, it's a it sometimes it's not a guy popping free. Sometimes it's not a guy getting cut sometimes it's a trade Again at every spot. I love our pro department and they're really pounding the pavement and they're they're assessing these other rosters. So That's our job to do that. It's never it's a fluid process throughout the whole year Any update on brian everett's left practice a little bit early on saturday? Yeah, fell on that shoulder And we've taken a look at it and we'll see where he is. No update at this point Not sure No Yeah, thanks for asking that question and I think We always try to focus on this building and and I think again like and controlling the things that you can control we can control this building and In my mind, it's all about the the way you're called which your culture is and the reason I was able to grow and develop Is not because of my color and no one gave me an opportunity because of my color But I was always included because the work I put into it and and and I was able to be included and I was able to develop And that's our goal here. Um top to bottom in the building We want to make sure that we're giving people opportunities to develop and the way we do that is we make sure we're pouring into people and and we have education programs in-house The league shouldn't have to give us Have accelerator programs or we should be able to do that in-house with everyone not just People that a certain color or a certain race or a certain sex It should be everyone everyone should have those opportunities And it's our job to do that and we should be inclusive in all our processes Um trust is the most important factor and when we have trust then we can we can involve everyone and be inclusive So that's what we're doing here and I think we're in a really good place Nice When you have Arthur Smith saying over the weekend that that was one of the most competitive practices that he's seen since he's been here Does that give you a little bit more confidence that you're putting the right guys on the field given the fact that it's so early in training camp? It does That was a y'all out here. It was a fun practice and and I do want to say the fans It's cool for them to be out here and we appreciate they've been coming out, uh, particularly on saturday That was a really good group out there and I hope they're having good experiences We appreciate them, but it's true. The competitiveness is real and and that's that's at every spot and it's not just Again in the one-on-one periods or when you're at the point, but it's backside. It's all the things you see Lyman running 30 yards downfield trying to escort running backs into the end zone And so now we put on the pads and and now we can really see because a lot of those positions Really every position on the on the field, but the pads really define you so we're going to start scenes from separation You asked about the d-line. Okay. Now we're putting pads on let's see and so it's uh, it's the competitiveness has been outstanding Though and it's been fun to watch and it does it speaks to the character of the team We've got a lot of guys out there that love football and love to compete Thanks Same question you asked three times already. No, no, it's a different. Are you going to use your sidekick? No, that hurts. Yeah, that's just that's just wrong. No, this is strictly for for me um Any thoughts on the Hall of Fame class going in this uh, this Saturday You're out here posting on people wearing your uh senior Hall of Fame shirt the other day But uh, any thoughts on the class you see more from Georgia Brian Young coached here at Sam Mills. I imagine you watch him growing up Just some thoughts on some of the people going in on Saturday Yeah, just the the people you just described those are the kind of players we're looking for you talk about those traits And and who they are and all the things that that they embody the type of players they were That's awesome. And you get excited when when guys like that no different than the player We put into the ring of honor the other day That's exciting players like that because they embody all the characteristics everything that you want That's the type of football team you want to be you want to be tough smart competitive And you want to go out there and fight and compete. So when guys like that get honored we always get excited Exactly what we talked to you since you did sign green for the extension. What was it that told you before you get that done and also Was that a difficult people to get done? No, no because he was motivated uh to get it done He wanted to be here and and just like what we're talking about you want to reward players like that Um able to give him the extension able to give Jake an extension and young way That's exciting because those are the kind of players that you want to you want to build around Because of who they are as people the type of teammates they are obviously they're good football players But you know They're they're multipliers They're going to make people around them better because they really care about And love this team and and grady's one of those guys and we're really appreciative to have them