t the person who beat up the person She's going to see that she has no idea about just happens to be like the only person We know in the world they can like help her out and then and then she trusts her.   Do you not remember that Vi knows that guy? I remember No, the point isn't that Vi knows the person it's that Caitlyn wouldn't have any understanding of this It's like you got beat up in a prison. No, we've been over this It's interesting to explore that someone within hours of him arriving at the prison nearly killed him Why did they do that? Who is this person? Yeah, I'm saying it's convenient that it's Vi. Vi is like the one person She has a reason to do it. She did it for a reason it follows She's the only reason I could do that to him The only reason I would see anybody saying that it's convenient is like meta because she's vi and she's the main character of the show But like it doesn't that doesn't mean anything like in universal follows Not to mention we're about to find out that she does this regularly to the people She's regular over she has she doesn't have an and she is impulsive about it If you're trying to argue that she has no more motive than anyone in the prison to beat him I don't understand at all Like it's it's okay It doesn't like I Whatever I see there's like multiple problems here. It's convenient that she talks to it's convenient The vice the one who beats them up. It's convenient that she thinks to go talk to the person It's convenient that I just I'm telling you like a bunch of different reasons We've taken them one by one said no to each of them, but now you're concluding that they're all valid Yeah, I don't I don't accept your rebuttals. It's still Be more specific. What about her she has a motive to beat that man. What do you disagree with on that? Okay, they're from Caitlyn's perspective There's no reason to think that the like the person who is beating this person up Is going to be the person who is going to like help solve the case true In prison true Caitlyn knows this true. We'll see criticism knows that Like again, this is very convenient. Okay Caitlyn doesn't have a reason to believe That this person is going to be the person to help her solve the case True. It's a person like the the prisoner got beat up in prison. There's not any particular reason to think true There's any like necessary connection to anything true. I again, I'm it's I can I can buy okay. She's gonna go talk to her because I mean the reason you guys are giving is she'll go talk to her because she doesn't have anything else to do Well, I don't I mean she certainly has other things she can do but okay She was just going to go talk to people It's convenient that the person who happens to have beaten them up is also the person who is in the best position of like anybody Presumably in the universe to help her solve the case, right? I don't know why you've concluded that That she's the best person to help No, probably Marcus would be the best person ever like he's got all the information and access And he could also facilitate her on piltover side. Vi is very useful But there is a reason that she ends up with vi beyond.  Caitlyn comes to the prison looking for him And that event has happened which draws her to vi. These are like I would argue It's the complete opposite of convenience. It's almost like you're locked into those events Okay, really quickly Marcus wouldn't help her so you haven't understood at all what I was trying to say I'm talking about Convenience Marcus of course wouldn't help her Well, you're saying that vi isn't the person like the best person to run into will vi Helps her Marcus wouldn't so I'm just saying with a potential power agency of the characters and what they know Vi is one of many people But the problem is who are the people that Caitlyn could bump into you know Like when go into that prison regarding a silco goon, it's like it's probably the silco goon or maybe vi Because I'll beat the fuck out of him. I don't know why are we taking why is it like just randomly bumping into someone is That's not random. It's not random. It's very well structured It's like you said it's cause and effect.  She beats them to a pulp every time she gets a chance to So kate yeah, I'm not I'm not contesting that vi wouldn't attack the henchmen. That's our argument for why it's not random What part of it is random Okay From katelyn's perspective, there isn't Like there isn't a reason to think that there's like this person is going to be useful or that this person is going to help you In fact, that there's probably pretty good reasons to be dubious of both of those assertions What i'm saying is random is that like even though there are even though without the fort like again from katelyn's perspective Without four knowledge of all this other stuff that's been going on She has very good reasons to be skeptical of this person And yet she isn't kind of cool of this person and this happens to be the person that can help her out So she is skeptical. She absolutely is that's just categorical But also if you've got no other leads, what choice do you have like she's got nothing This is the best that she's she's got they're okay There are lots of other things that could happen because this is what happened in the show she Again in the show she releases her and then it ends up fine. That doesn't mean that in the moment It's like a necessarily great decision So those could take someone who's been locked up and like literally had the key thrown away Someone who's so dangerous. They don't even keep proper records on them. And it's like, oh, well, you know Necessarily that's not what you conclude from that now But let's pretend for a second that vi didn't tell her anything. She even ignores it. She just doesn't speak at all Caitlyn would check and she would have to resort to something else. That's a dead end Simple as that but it's not a dead end What would the character vi say to this person in this scenario? I think everything she says is entirely in line.  Yeah But that's just a goal anyway Yeah, and then Caitlyn like gets given all the information that she would need to believe this person might Be able to do something to help her with this case and that's good enough Good enough for any detective Do you think that vi thinks there's a reasonable chance she'll be let out when she's in the prison? I mean, I'd give it a shot if I were Otherwise, I'm just gonna stand as long as she thinks there's even a one percent chance as batman would say she should take it as an absolute Yeah, I don't know why she wouldn't take that opportunity her only other choice is stay in prison forever I'd certainly try again Yeah, if if the premises trying she's trying to use Caitlyn to get out of prison Then why would she like insult Caitlyn a bunch of times?  She's she's pretty normal in that regard very emotionally driven And she probably is intelligent enough to if she sat down think about everything Yeah, yeah figure out that that will probably be um counter to her goals But she's not doing that. She's not sitting down and figuring out exactly the best course of action. Yeah It's all done in real time much more emotionally driven than that because she only realizes those opportunities here in real time as it rises. Yeah She had no time to prep a strategy to get out of jail Okay, so I assume that vi did not think there was any chance she was gonna get let out of prison So I didn't even have a problem with that But you guys were saying that this was like a realistic expectation in which case Well, then why would you be like insulting Caitlyn? So when she's telling her you're not going to make it on your own I obviously thought that she was aiming to get her to use vi as a guide Like it is an insult, but it's also an insult that has an implication of but I could help you get me out of here Yeah, it's an insult that says you can't do this on your own. You're gonna need yeah, okay again there's no contradiction between Like viciously attacking her and then trying to get her to get you let out of prison so that you can hang out No I don't know because whether or not you insult somebody whether or not you insult them if they need you You know You're not exactly going to put your feefies ahead if you're trying Yeah, exactly.      Maybe she's got the information I need. Oh, never mind. She insulted me.  It's a core element Well, I'm just vii is emotional. She is an emotional person She's very much driven by how she feels and if she only cares about the feelings of woman First So we're not gonna so we're not caving on anything. There's no level of convenience There's no oddness about the fact that there's like very conflicting reasons for people. I feel like we provided all of the counter arguments Yeah, it just kind of seems to me at this point like anything that That resulted in the prop progressing was convenient and random to you. I just don't get it No, it's because there are very good reasons to not do the things that they do And they and it happens anyway Well, so we can just play this exactly if you and I were the detectives give me give me one Let's go from we can go from every different perspective from Caitlyn's perspective because this person is potentially really really dangerous Okay from vi's perspective Again, you have to figure out whether or not it is that she is trying to use Caitlyn as a vessel to get out of prison Now if you are okay, if she is then it's quite weird to antagonize Caitlyn as much as she did That's no what why we've gone over it because She whether or not you antagonize someone if you have leverage You can do that and she would do that because that's a kind of person that she is she doesn't like enforce He's a rash emotional person. Yeah, she's not gonna go.  So that wouldn't be with Did you not say that it would be incredibly suspicious if somebody who hates enforcers is like, oh no, hey friend Let me help you out, buddy. Like that's I could be so used I can give you like a direct like one-to-one real world parallel, right? So like when I was younger, I was not fond of the police Okay, not fond of the police at all. But when I get pulled over by the police I'm very incentivized to try and be cooperative and called and and cordially, you know Do you vise literally in prison, man? Exactly I have something I want to I I have something I want to get out of the police that are pulling me over or whatever Which is that I want to get the minimum possible level of enforcement on me of whatever in vice case She has something she wants to get out of katelyn, which is she wants katelyn to cooperate But the idea that like being rude to them isn't going to influence the outcome I just I don't understand how you can make that argument It might but she's an emotional person who has a back story with enforcers that leads her to be very antagonistic towards them Yeah, like when she has leverage, I guess to maybe make it so clear I want to emphasize where I just said though the enforcers execute her parents. This is a bit different than I don't like the police Exactly, but she's cooperating with this is what I'm telling you There's like very very strong reasons from both of their perspectives to not cooperate with each other and to not trust each other So I would say the violence Vi has very very good reasons to like try and cooperate to get out And that's not necessarily And we'll bring us back to the start of the scene real quickly It opens with vi, you know being non cooperative because she doesn't know why katelyn is there Nope She has no idea why katelyn is there what katelyn wants So katelyn just mentions, you know Witnessing an ongoing investigation and stuff and then katelyn turns to leave after vi continues to say nothing Until vi gives her the lead of you know give silco a kiss on that winning of eye appears That gets her attention back and the dialogue resumes from there. I mentioned silco now that she has leverage silco's in charge and it's like Silco's in charge of who fucking everyone because this is a Relative conspiracy at this point because marcus has hidden it Yeah This conversation is very natural and it's only at a certain point the vi even realizes She has the power to be able to get out of prison if she plays this right But she also I would argue uses reverse psychology.  Maybe katelyn could But telling her she can't Katelyn was gone until she got a lead out of vi unprompted Like she was leaving That's true. She was going to leave. Yeah Okay, that's okay I mean, doesn't that seem a bit convenient like you're leaving? What what is convenient about it? I don't understand like what you mean when you said that it's convenient I don't know if maybe you're asking why would she mention silco and it's like because she believes the enforcers are in silco's pocket And so she's telling this enforcer go give silco a kiss on the is winning eye Okay, we don't have to say it's unlocked on this, but I Yeah, I appreciate that. Also what I look for is reasoning for these things to happen more so than any of the million things And it seems like these are all the most likely events that would happen as a result of the variables we're aware of That's why I like this a lot I I find it very very unlikely from katelyn's position that she would trust vi and let her out She doesn't trust her. She doesn't trust her.   You have to pick one I I mean, I've argued like six different positions as to why this doesn't make sense. I mean the strongest one is that katelyn You're you're free to think that katelyn. No, I'm right. They're all wrong Yeah, katelyn. Yeah, it makes it makes complete perfect sense for katelyn to trust this person who she doesn't trust Say that Trust her then why are you letting her out of prison? Sorry, sorry, sorry, you've just done the thing you've taken two contradictory positions You've said that she trusts her and then when we say she doesn't you say that that's wrong to pick one I'm saying no What I'm saying is that her the way that katelyn behaves with vi implies a level of trust if she distrusts her Then doing this doesn't make any sense A level of trust there There are different levels of trust Like it's not you can trust that she will act in her self-interest But so long as they align with yours then you can you can work with that The first thing that happens is that vi doesn't cooperate with her self-interest. I mean, I guess we are But that that's why why would you make that assumption that she's just going to cooperate with your self-interest? Why you don't necessarily know that she is going to always cooperate you run the risk Like you haven't given reasons to believe that she has an interest in what you're doing. It is still a risk It's still a risk like just say it's a risk is like a substantial understatement Like you're you're letting out someone who you have like every reason to believe You want us to say there's lots of other things you could do. So they are using each other. They're not trusting each other Yeah, it's only later that they start to trust each other. Um, yeah, I don't Get it at all. I really don't like if you and I was there And I was like do we should uh, we should use them. They seem to know their way around They seem very invested in the evidence that we've collected so far and to be honest with you We haven't got a strong amount of stuff behind us. Like this isn't even sanctioned. Um, you know through markers or anything I reckon the maybe if we just pull her out. She's a nobody nobody cares about her We can maybe get that proof. She's talking about related to silk. Okay, if we can at least get that That'll be a great lead. And if you were like we can't trust it. I'd be like Yeah But this is yeah, this is what we've got the best we got our firstly Actually, hold on just when we talk about these real world examples police talk to people who may or may not be telling them the truth And they still talk to them And they still like try to figure out ways that they can use them to help advance their case Not everybody The problem isn't talking to someone the problem is Finding someone that you have every reason to believe is dangerous and letting them out of prison and then walking around with them It's a very different problem was talking to them before You said that is yes, there are many different. I have many different problems with this scene One of them is going to talk to them in the first place the one we're talking about right now When we address that one police will talk to people who may well not be telling the truth You you don't know why that's a point. Yeah, I don't that's a bad one. Just talking to him I don't see how there's nothing wrong with that. I would absolutely give up that position I'm not still arguing that you guys just brought that up. We're talking about No, I did okay No, I didn't okay. I'm pretty sure theo didn't and I responded to it. I did not just bring that up No, correct me if I'm wrong, but Fringy brought up a counter-argument to it and you said I'm You're more interested in talking about taking around and stuff Is that okay, but you brought it up earlier and you went. Yeah, there are many things I have to take issue with That's a restatement of the problem. We're saying it doesn't exist Okay, okay What I was trying to focus on right now Was the fact that Vi is a dangerous person and Caitlyn has a lot of reasons to not be around her Okay, and the level of trust that's implied by the actions that Vi is taking or the actions that Caitlyn is taking right now Um are out of touch with the level of risk for the situation Okay, the the idea that it's weird that she went uh that that Caitlyn went and talked to Vi Is a completely separate issue that I wasn't talking about Okay, again, it's an issue. Yeah. Do you still think it's an issue or not that she spoke to her? I mean, it's a bit weird, but it's like forgivable. I don't feel any I would just say that it follows you don't lose anything by talking to her you might as well There is literally no reason not to Like why would she not talk to her would be my question Like if you're worried about someone lying to you, it's like yes, welcome to talking to human beings I don't know why you think that well, she's a prisoner. So she might lie bore It's like oh because whether or not she's going to be dishonest you may get you can get something out of a dishonest person They might say something unwittingly they might The fact that they're trying to misdirect you might focus your attention on something else like even if someone's not being honest with you You can still learn things from them. So I don't see why you would never talk I I don't even I I Totally do not understand that one like that I would hasten to remind just quickly that katelyn was going to leave when she was going to snowmalling her When I gave her nothing she was leaving. That's Discussing the decision to talk to her in the first place We've addressed that one she there is no reason why she wouldn't talk to her You have to give that one up. That one is ridiculous Is to which the the decision to talk to her in the first place. Yeah. Yeah, that that one's absurd like you have to give that one up Okay, what what is the why would vye think naturally that because someone got beat up They're going to talk to the person is going to help her solve like a grand conspiracy Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait. We'll just we are correct dooma. There is no reason to think that's a guarantee Yes I got nothing and then that's it. Okay. You could just talk you could just randomly talk to everyone in the prison Okay, you don't just do that. It's true. You can say once again. Once again, you are completely correct Though if say I was brainstorming with us lot here, but like who should we speak to first?  Maybe it won't it's worth checking Mm-hmm It's five minutes out of my way Yeah, while she's here, certainly I might as well So you have to see that one too I mean, I again, I don't feel a need to argue about it, but I don't see a reason that you You guys okay, I am not the one who is getting stun locked on this, right? You guys keep bringing it up Well, what about that point you want to continue that point? Don't act like I'm the one who's getting us stuck here. I keep saying I don't feel like arguing about it. Okay Like the Caitlyn the Caitlyn's motivation to not let by out of jail. I I I'm absolutely flabbergasted You guys don't understand like how potentially dangerous that is I I I feel we conceded it several times So you just don't even like for some reason you think that means you should never use her as an opportunity It's like there's an immediate danger of being around this person Like do you actually believe for a second there that we think there's no danger in bringing by out of the prison? Do you think that's a position we hold? If maybe we should tell them that we think what is the level of what is the level of risk? Well, it's it's yeah, it's a risk. It's a risk Okay, it's a big risk, but in but your alternative is nothing We don't we don't know Well She certainly feels like that's her only choice, which is an important part whether or not she more That isn't established. She's got a whole board of a bunch of stuff. I mean presumably there's more There's one exact thing Let her just still water because of a person she can't talk to I I guess is that a problem that makes sense No, but I'm seeing like there isn't it's not like oh well well the person that I wanted to talk to was here So I'll just talk to everyone else who's here. I mean, it's not a video game It's not like well, there have to be NPCs, but she had a reason to talk to this person She had a reason to talk to Vi.  I mean she has the thug is like a silco henchman. She knows that so there's like a very very obvious reason to talk to them Yeah, and and he got beat up. He's currently unavailable.   That's why I beat him up. Caitlyn'd be like Oh, okay. Anything you can tell me about chuck.  All right. Well, well at least I tried And then you have to try and figure something else out But when you meet someone who apparently has some sort of understanding of the drawing and seems to be emotionally invested in that They might be able to help you guide guide you through an area that you've never been to before It is a risk that you might just run off or beat the shit out of you And she's given you a silco as a That's a conspiracy format without prompting as well Exactly. Yeah When you're presented with that might as well take the chance and Caitlyn is not risk averse We know that she's not risk averse I mean like it was it was a little bit risky for her to sneak into the uh, well, I guess to just give examples, right?  Yep. Yep. I like I'm not risk averse That doesn't mean that I'm like going to do something that has a tangible like chance of Caitlyn's not you Caitlyn's Caitlyn and she has different Uh, I don't think that Caitlyn I think that Caitlyn believes that she can handle herself in a uh combat situation She has reason to consider her death a considerable risk who ends up saving whose life Yeah, I'm an excellent shot and she is she's a very good shot But I think I think she considers I think that she considers the physical threat that Vi presents To be one that she can deal with with her own set of skills Yeah, or at least just give it give it a give it a shot Like she she has weapons that she is incredibly proficient with with her Vi doesn't Because her fists for you just prove logic is subjective. Well, no logic like your internal logic is going to be different from someone else's That's that's all there is to your willingness to take a risk is different for everyone's here is different You're Everybody is logical in their own head like everybody believes that they're making the right decisions or that they're you know People act in what they believe to be their self-interest whether or not it actually is that's a different thing But like we're trying to talk about characters all that matters makes sense to them that they would do it That's all that's all that matters. It doesn't need to be like the most optimal decision ever Yeah, so like if a guy believes that like the sky is made of jelly So if he if he like goat gets in a Good gets in a plane He can like put his head out the window and eat some jelly and he gets on a plane because he wants to eat some jelly That is within his character because it's logical to him not because it actually makes sense logically Okay, should vi or should kitlin ask vi any more questions before letting her out I'm assuming they asked a whole she asked a whole bunch of questions in between the time they get from here to the next scene Just about here and what it stuff is about things It would probably and vi at that point would have a big motive to calm it down as to What she's dealing with Why why would we assume that because I doubt they were silent I mean it's the reason that we're assuming that something has to be there It's because it's kind of weird just given the information that we have No, no So two human beings walking from one area to another that's a long distance They will typically talk about something. That's my game. Oh, sorry. Sorry. We're we're miscommunicating I mean Shouldn't shouldn't kitlin ask more questions before letting her out of prison Like kitlin has her in a position where she's compromised Well, so can ask her questions and get whatever information that she wants to get her out closer rather than later for many you got to remember all the urgency elements as well one being that This is something that kitlin is not supposed to be doing Secondly the the clock is ticking on whatever is happening and Which she's just dealt with many enforcer friends being killed She just wants to get on with this job and then thirdly the fact that viya gets beaten on the regular It's probably worth getting her out as well The most recent chat just says I've become so numb I've become so numb How does it feel I don't know actually. I don't know how it feels. I've become so numb I thought it was a we see you there, but I've not listened to that song and well ever actually input, you know Yeah, we are we are running out of time. We happen to be Wait, how long we can go We got five as I can we only got an hour and a half to finish this episode and we're still on the first With a second seat, I guess Well, okay, then, uh, yeah, then we get the intro everyone's favorite Um, and I was just yeah I was going to talk about the uh, so this the funeral scene and marcus is talking about all the people who've died Those enforcers, which is nice because it could have been that they were just killed and nobody really cares Because they were just Representative of an action scene, you know, but it's like no They care very much about this. It's gonna have big repercussions on both sides um But uh, yeah, he uh, he takes his daughter to grayson's uh Headstone tombstone uh tomb Yeah, I think it's just a tomb in general Yep, and he says, uh, she was a good woman Which it's just yeah seven years later and it's still weighing on him heavily because he's honestly kind of the reason she's dead It was real important. Um, really good sense of making this guy a lot more. Um I guess I don't know if I just keep it in mind, you know understandable. Yeah He's very much not a cartoon character.    He's complicated There's a lot of detail I think if if he had a way out You think marcus would be out, you know, like he wouldn't be in with silco anymore if such a yeah But right now it feels to me like he's just trying he's trying to make things work like Grayson and vanda did but But he's not Grayson silco's not uh, yeah Just with that one scene you can tell he's got a lot of admiration for for Grayson and um But yeah, they hand him his money and he very frustratingly walks off because there's this sense as well There's like take the money or something worse might happen in this because he's surrounded by these fucking like huge dudes um, I also like just the the It's it's pretty much made clear that his role as sheriff Was given to him thanks to his relationship with silco Which um like the jab that silco gives him like we've we've accomplished a lot together marcus sheriff like And this thing um Just with that line my brain is like oh is that like referencing that maybe silco has given people up um for marcus to arrest and like may even make like really great progress here and there with different busts or something But at the same time making it look like that's what's happening when You know other things that who knows what their history has been it's just that uh, marcus is in way too deep Yeah, and then we we we jump over to good old Victor and jace who are in i don't even know it's like a room filled with all kinds of hectic stuff Uh, i'm assuming it powers the hex gate. I'm not sure I would imagine that's a we call a science room. Yes. I assume Yeah Make science room to the science room. We do science here. We have fun.     Um But yeah, once again, uh watching victor cough and then blood comes out. I was like, no He's not doing well. I mean Yeah, but he already had plot cough. You knew this was coming. He's such a nice boy Don't Stuff look at him. He's looking at all the science He's looking at the science Yeah, literally word for word says I need to do science And then we got the jink scene, right? We got a jink scene. I'm not biased to all these things. What are you talking about? I look all right. They're they're cool scenes She's doing she's working on a little tech. She's created a rudimentary Uh Like little device that is capable of making use of the gemstone through what she's uh read and all of the the books and stuff Seriously, look at that image. It's just it's just like a moment in the scene that's passing by and she's like, oh The amount of um depth It's gorgeous and the lighting oh colors Nice all the all the neon like neon aesthetic scenes are pretty sweet um So, yeah, uh Again just because at this point in the show, I was still like, what are we uh, what are we up to with here? I don't I'm not entirely sure but basically explains to my little glagger how the machine works And how she's excited to get it using she's gonna have to pop the gemstone in And see what happens and of course because it's just like a first attempt Doesn't it's not working out perfectly kind of makes a little explosion And my god They do a thing that it's so hard not to compare once again to boba fat.  Yeah, I know I wish it flashed back to him smiling at them chasing the cricket creature Just a little that was the flash back Just a little little uh side just so you remember, right? Okay boba frets friend friends. They died and this makes him sad thing Yeah There's no reason for cad bane to be bringing this up, you know, but it's not sad about all of the innocent bike Has he killed?   We have a history with that scene. This is very important This scene, yeah, right? She corrects the tack But it doesn't quite work in terms of it's a little bit uncontrolled and does a little explosion on it It blows it back And then we flash She's staring at the device and if you look at it, it's kind of reminiscent Certain colors actions Animation it makes the sound it makes the exact sound as well Uh, I've skipped past it and I don't want to skip back feel sees a dick, but uh clagger His face appears on the clagger doll temporarily um It's just staring at this shit and then she sees the monkey device that she built Blowing up Just explosions everything's messed up and then it's flashing to the the deaths of clagger and milo um Panics course Until it just it kind of peters out because this is this is what she's done here is essentially what we were seeing Jason Victor do an episode like two and three Just sort of playing with it to see if it can work understanding of control of it sort of thing um And then she yeah, once it all ends and calms down She uh, she says no it was a mistake. It was a mistake and she just runs off Which yeah I was just surprised.  You're not turning it sort of like a joke Very much on in mind And we got to this moment organically through things that you know, she would have should have been down Exactly. There's a thing like she tries to report herself as fun loving And confident and stuff, but she is not she is completely broken and held together by strings Um, this imagery is I really like sort of her character psychologically like um We haven't fully explored what she experiences But like intense childhood trauma is what causes stuff like this So particularly when you see scenes like this and you can see like flashbacks of it um Really quite realistic Seeing her character development it I mean Obviously the magical elements of it aren't aren't very realistic, but if something similar happened You know The way that she's behaving isn't out of out of what you would expect. You know in the real world Yeah, well, I I'll give this why a lot of people find it so compelling um And to just strip her down like She's this psycho killer who's really confident, but I don't think she's doing but in this moment She's reverted back and To this day is desperate to explain that what happened with that in episode three was a mistake. She didn't mean for that to happen She has not gotten over it and she wouldn't have ever really gotten over it. There's no reason for her to have gotten over this Yeah And uh, yeah, exactly that last frame as well just showing the she's still got the bunny Yeah Rags, what do you think of this scene? um I'm kind of just sort of letting you guys take this one.  I think it's pretty dumb that uh Vi would assume katelyn's gonna be able to easily catch up with it with how far and fast she goes Mm-hmm. It's not even about you might even be trying to lose her. I don't know is well I mean, she seems to be on board with There's a lot of thought to that actually because i'm not sure I really don't know exactly Katelyn seems to believe from the second that she's ran off that she may very well just be abandoning her Uh, but katelyn manages to follow her. Um The only thing I can really say I suppose about that is just that um It seems a little lucky because It shows us what vi does which by the way is cool.  Yeah um It's just that the Katelyn is struggling on like the first beam while vi has Gone so far that I don't even know if they're in like ear shot of screaming at each other at this point That's the problem. I would like arrive at is how the hell is katelyn supposed to follow like Yeah, she gets to a point where vi's just gone and there's a million different routes down that she could take and uh, yeah The scene wants you to think she's just right behind her but logistically that doesn't work So as we're as we're shown it should be more of a of a situation You have a robot vacuum just came in the room. Sorry if that's loud. It's all right Do you have a name? Uh duncan I'm glad that you've given it a name. That's uh, that makes me really happy. He's working hard He is working hard.   He gets he gets like uh promotions because he's so good at cleaning Like he takes the most efficient routes and stuff And he doesn't I've seen him working. All right, and then he doesn't know his way around but He's a good man. It's only a second day. He's a good duncan Oh, it's only a second day. Wow. Mm-hmm. Oh, wow his powers have um Yeah, awesome shot. Not sure about this for her health Yeah, some of these are some of these so The whole thing is that like as we're shot I as I believe that what we're supposed to think is that like katelyn is just behind her even though logistically that doesn't work But as shown katelyn should really just be like in accordance with the motivation She should be essentially threatening by to slow down Like keeping a gun train when I like you can't leave my sight. Sorry Sorry, not sorry. I think that's fair But she's currently trying to even find a way of keeping like her arms and focus are on just being alive right now Because this is incredibly dangerous Plus I don't think she's trying to call too much attention to herself So she started shouting orders. She's gonna draw a little too much attention to herself I mean, I know she's climbing and everything but shouting is gonna do way more essentially when you're up high So really really quickly this is Doing something like this is necessary because there's like some sort of security on the bridge or something, right? Like I assume is there is there an option of them just walking home? Well, so I don't think we have to believe what vai says. I think vai just wants to do it this way This is something she enjoys doing as always possibly done But she says years and she wants to do this again. She says we need to lay low But I don't know that that's like The actual reason she does this I think I can believe that silco has eyes all around and that's a thing she wants to avoid and not in his face like Uh, that she still has got him There is a small change in he was injured There is a small change in silco's face. You notice that his uh, his pupil is more deformed than it used to be It is you're right. It shows that he has been shooting it in his eye a lot lately I was curious to see if because I didn't compare it myself, but I was curious if the scarring Had expanded or not from when we saw him in the first three Like it got further across his face or not I don't know if it's easy to tell because he's obviously got foundation on it. Can't confirm Can't confirm who'd be needed for this I was significantly less smoother than it used to be also an interesting little take that I noticed You know vai's running around on the rooftops and everything like she knows the place like the back of her hand It's kind of interesting how you know Piltover made all these all this progress and everything like that But by vai getting around the city so easily like it was only yesterday that she had done this would show that Pilto or that the under city has barely changed at all. Yeah, like structurally it's most of the same But obviously the inhabitants and the exports have have changed Mm-hmm. Yeah, I think you're right I was talking about why she has a tattoo of her name on her face That's those are roman. That's a roman in before That's six, sorry I think that was the amount of time she's been in prison Ah Maybe you've been in there for six years Well, then it wouldn't be a vi. It would be like an uh One two three four five. Yeah, you're right. Yeah, I wouldn't put on your face Unless unless she was really removing that adding and removing to make them Yeah, when when they got to four they're like, uh-oh Someone in chat several people in chat have put it out. It's her name guys. We were trying to find a kula reason Well, no, if you look at it, it is it is still roman numeral six That's what I think I think in terms of characterization It damages her if if we are to believe that at some point she went, you know what?  I never actually thought to ask. I just like I never have so yeah, I hope that's not the reason I just want my I just I just think it's coincidence. I think it's a roman numeral six and it just so happens that her name is vi I think that's just coincidence. I won't put down What if I is So it's a prison tattoo, right because she didn't have it when she was a kid All about tattoos she got while in prison. Yeah yeah, I mean Look, I'm the one I'm the the vihater is logged on, right? But I mean, I'll forget that. That's what I Prison tattoo is okay I just yeah, I assume she got it for reasons that aren't I want my name on my face like that right Uh, I love this shot.   I by the way, uh Jay, do you remember when I said there are other things that have done that payoff that you said you like Yeah, I remember the one of them is from buffy. So You'll see it again. I I think I think you remembered that as we were watching it because I'm pretty sure you told me that I should like what be with What first I said I couldn't remember what uh, it was from though, right? Um, I sweat ice I I don't know this the being from buffy feels familiar to me. So I'm my guess is that you said, um, of like just putting my memories together You said you couldn't remember where it was from and then like a little bit later You were like oh, it's from buffy. Well, it could also be that you're just so used to me saying that reference I have is from buffy. It could be that Maybe uh But yeah, they to show passage of time as well. They they have uh How long it took katelyn to get down there was the same amount it took for the old man to get into the uh Little tram and get delivered down here as well but um Yeah, it's a little bit strange. She ends up in pretty much the exact same place that vi landed It's just like oh Okay, that's convenient.   Um Bring it back to where uh katelyn says that she wants to use the uh the lift Uh and vise and vise says no, we're not doing that.  Is anyone else knows what's just happened or is it just me? What's happened what in the conversation? So I literally pointed all of that out as a fun payoff How about the goat man? Did anyone else hear me say that or am I insane? No, I didn't hear you say that You definitely did for a second there. I was like wait am I having deja vu but like but I think is I guess that was the Weird part. I thought that was a very it was super overt and obvious the goat man. It was very Yeah, I don't that's why I said it's an indication that that's how long it took katelyn to get down there Yeah Okay, no my bad. I guess I I don't know. I guess I must have missed it. Never mind. It's all right. You don't like listening to me That's fine. You know, I was it was allowed to just you know ignore it was a funny bit that I missed on my first time over And then when I saw it second time Mm-hmm um Yeah, I think uh victor is now fiddling with the hex core And um, I think it's a bit of a of a progression a progression in terms of dialogue back uh in episode three I think wasn't jinn jay say something like you sure this is gonna work and jace was uh, sorry victor was just like He likes a bit of a shrug with like an okay, but then this time Jay says you sure like you know what you're doing or you sure this is safe and victor's just like no Of course not Yeah, like he's it just seems to be the dynamic has changed a little bit with victor's becoming more desperate Yeah He seems to not only is he more desperate. He seems to have accepted that other people know this and um, he he the way he says of course not Uh establishes that not only is he desperate But the people he is aware that the people around him are aware that he is desperate So he's been desperate for long enough that people know it about him. Yeah, but it's it's it's been normalized Um, and then we're introduced to the best character in the whole show Uh, wouldn't you agree selco right? He is uh, this guy He he just he fills my heart with joy. I love apparently He's such a good boy. He's my friend. His name is Jericho. Yeah, Jericho. What is he called? Well, yeah, somebody super cheered that they helped animate him uh, someone in chat as well as The god so yeah that person will get to the super chance at some point, but um, that's great You're cool. He's so full of life Instantly fell in love with him when she complimented his food and he just like like khakis is like Like slams his cleaver into his own shoulder where he's got like a cleaver board and everything. He's a great guy He's so happy. He just takes pride in his work. Yeah, he's smiling. He's doing good work and he's happy while doing it the best kind um, he really is so great And uh, he helps her out as well as what she's looking for He knows and even toward the end of the scene like he even just kind of stares at katlyn for a moment in the Way the way he looked at her and the way the camera just kind of hung on that for a little bit I thought maybe he was a league of legends character that I wasn't aware of He should be a league of legends character Then again, if they add him he'd be too overpowered. He'd just be Adding him would be if you're on the other team, you wouldn't want to kill him Well, his ulti would be a global taunt where everybody just loves him and hugs him I can't bring myself to hurt such a charming wonderful man and then they all kill themselves He just yeah, when my walks off he turns to katlyn just smiles like anything I could help you with sort of thing Yeah, he's so happy Look at him. What a legend. Um, I think we could I think we could all as a legend. He belongs in some kind of league. Yeah We could all learn something from this if all if the world was filled with just him The world would be there would be heaven it would exist It would be There is a reason why he is in the thumbnail.  Do you? Because uh the enforcers are a little bit unaware of that Um The yeah Vi Basically ignoring her and looks to be messing around but she actually gets something from uh jericho. That's important And it is gonna take her to the uh the brothel So I guess this the the I don't know the icon for the brothel. It's like a little Circle with the lines. I'm not sure. Yeah um And so we get the politics scene Who lots of politicking happens here, um Well, yeah, we we can talk about that what's probably going on with that in the background of the sack but uh So the idea is jace is becoming much less popular because of his goals of trying to shore up security It's screwing up a bunch of the councilor's uh interests and Mel is like you should probably do something about that for example Talk to them about how you're going to be innovating Hextech And ask them to support you and work with you and they can have you know First entry into like whatever it is you may come up with Bait them bribe them whatever you want just try and get them on your side so that your endeavors don't get screwed up by accidentally sort of uh butting heads with them And of course It's just like as far as I'm concerned This show was never going to be as like politically focused as tv shows that are all about politics But I think it does a pretty decent job of trying to do a simplified version You have well the time to give it. Yeah mel is like this uh She's almost a puppeteer that's trying to manipulate politics in the same way you could argue frank is in uh house of cards Except she's a good person Both in universe, I know but the Idea with this is that jace is a main puppet and she's going to get him to puppeteer the other counselors Very uh clever lady um I figure because we go back and forth I think between a jinx scene and the the politicking one So I think I might just try and go through the the conclusion of the politics one now instead of doing it piece by piece And I want to mention something that people were theorizing about quickly when the show was coming out like before Act theory was right ahead and then I'm going through but people thought that mel might be Leblanc Oh, uh, what's the connection? Uh, the connection being Leblanc is able to shape shift into other people and you know take on other guys and stuff and she might be You know Well, and she's a manipulator of course and we see mel manipulating people and she has connections to noxus because we see her painting the immortal bastion well Oh, I guess you're saying her connection to noxus in just act two Yeah, yeah, um, I mean, I guess they could still Is the thing we'll get to that I would consider that Yeah, yeah, yeah, I'd say that but like I just thought that was interesting to talk about Um, so jayce is like unsure and then he starts to like build up a conversation I think uh mel talks to one of the counselors or someone of influence. I can't quite remember what her name is but Uh halfway through her conversation with that woman who's like kind of implying that jayce is Annoying and kind of getting the way he like turns around and starts giving off a really charismatic and Well, just a speech That's his game face on the older one with the white hair.  It'll be fun. Where's the other politicking scene. There we go so Um, he starts talking to each of them shaking hands and making alliances Meanwhile, you wait. Oh, no. Yeah, go ahead Oh, it was meanwhile your boy heimerdinger. He's just sitting there enjoying the show Completely completely oblivious to what's going on around him which uh Felt to me and free where we were watching it as just foreshadowing All the all the counselors are there by himself Up to their own interests while he is just enjoying life Yep Um, all right, see if I can get a shot of it actually I just said my only issue with the politics scenes is there aren't more of them because I think they're quite good I enjoyed Watching this play out. I've seen many people describe it as boring, which is disappointing. But what can you do? Oh, man Hate it. If they think it's boring then, uh, I mean, maybe I would be curious if anyone thought it was boring after seeing it twice because like The second the second watched through for me all the different pieces sort of clicked and I understood You know everything that was going on in the scenes, right? I mean from that point on I really like these scenes. Did you actually don't like them Rex? No, I do Okay, I I would say like the first time around as soon as I saw Jaime Dinger there just happily watching I was immediately like I know where this is going like it's pretty like them He is not like them and he's gonna and I wonder if that's gonna cause problems for him in the future Like to me it was immediately clear I'm pretty sure you would I discussed what happens eventually exactly what we thought was gonna happen and to be clear That's not like a bad thing at all. It's it's I'm really glad that it was uh, it was so clear that what you know What direction we're heading in Because um, yeah, and and the show itself as well just gradually becoming darker and more chaotic with lightning and more intense strings and stuff Yeah Go Oh, uh, just a quick thing about the show as well. Uh, the violinist is a cameo of ray chen Go did the her goes involved in the song for the last episode for the finale? Oh, that's cool. Oh, like he looks like this in real life sort of thing Or Are you saying because of the model would have been built after him but also the he played well I'm assuming he played it as well What do you say cameo? Do you mean visually or just audio? I guess it's the same as the imagine dragons people right like for real Do you did you die? Yes Now Sorry, was it uh, just an audio uh cameo or is it visual as well? Uh visual. I think it's supposed to be based on him. Yeah, that's cool. That's cool I like this scene because it reminds me of the darth plague is the wise Yeah Only the best I was like yes, but yeah, I mean but It's basically the exact same. I was gonna say it's kind of rip off. If anything Um, but you know, we'll really say greatest artist steal from the best and stuff Um Then we got another awesome scene. What that just happens to have jinx in it. I don't know what you're talking about. Um Remember this this area from back in episode two It's where they used to hang out as friends We didn't get to do it much in the past seven years if at all Um, so jinx has given it a little visit And she even steps on the plate that vi would have thrown at the enforcer back then Which has the um the image of milo on it which again just Man does that seem familiar now compared to when we first ever saw it Look at that boy.  Yeah, it's looking head. So it's easy to emulate it And yeah, she looks at the leaderboard and it's all vi except for the two clagger ones That's what we hear clagger saying. What's wrong? Oh, you're right Uh powder's gonna beat you again. So which is just an indicator of what's going through her head I don't know about clagger is that he clags quite a lot So I got his name. He's always clagging They said your name shall be one who clags and they're like, that's Bit bit on the tongue.  We've set a lot of people shooting a crow She has killed several people at this point, but shooting a crow. I think crosses a different line, you know, it does cross a different line I don't like her anymore. Well because the important aspect of her character is that she has to um essentially to Actually, I might have said this on the last stream. Stop me if I did Uh, I'm gonna show you if I said this in private or on the stream Uh, but to Deal with what's happened to her. She almost has to as a necessity see killing as not a big deal Uh ending the life of a another individual has to for her Not be something particularly serious so that she can dismiss what she did Her biggest trauma is related to the tie. So she better deal with it. Yeah to taking lives If if that can become a trivial event then maybe that can help her Deal with the idea logically ideologically she Her viewing killing as something trivial makes a lot of sense considering what she's had to deal with and How that might have led her to think I would even argue that how it how it has led her to think she might even pursue it Because she can then make killing trivial. Um, like it would be yeah, so it's A lot going on for her. Um She reassembles the machine And she starts up around with it The um Just want to point out the the scratchy writing at the start just before things start as well.  It's not up yet. Yeah, I'm still just seeing the meme Oh, that's great. That's gorgeous actually It's it's one of those shots that doesn't draw focus if you're engaged in The story, but you can't appreciate it as it's it's just generally gorgeous. Anyway, like it's not gonna Yeah, it's it's not in face with how beautiful it is. It's just beautiful on its own as Theo was pointing out Just seeing vye scratched all over the screen Come across as lines just in general when uh viewed fast enough Yes, there is a Deep seated insecurity that relates to jinx comparing herself to vi Quite a bit especially being that vi was her source of like validation for basically everything And all sorts of pent up feelings that probably haven't been processed very well about exactly how she feels about vi now Well, yeah illustrated perfectly by look at these two flashbacks.  Yeah, look how quickly she goes from Jinx to vi it's just like It's really impressive Mm-hmm Talk about style too But yeah gotta be careful for copyright, which by the way, I was so careful in our last stream not a single trouble with copyright I was blown away. Wow. It the work pays off because youtube's a twat Don't tell youtube I said that Now just copyrights you out of spite removed from community guideline violations Like seriously look at the way that she moves Uh here, right?  Some feelings start coming to the surface Uh, yeah, she's getting pretty angry And this is the sort of scene that in most shows would just never show up because it doesn't have like a There isn't like a discrete plot reason for it to be here, but it's so good for character Like it communicates a tremendous amount Like most almost I mean basically exclusively visually in a very short period of time. I really love this scene Fucking excellent And she finishes out, um not at the top of the leaderboard No Which frustrates her quite a bit Expressions that is what would happen. She wouldn't win and that would annoy her. Yeah You could say she's having trouble here You could say she's dealing with a lot in this moment. Yeah And again, there's just like so many shots that could have just been meh Like they don't waste their opportunities. It's been meh.  He says I just had deja vu Unless you've said something incredibly similar that before Well, I just want to repeat I've said it before but I just want to say it again. It's just great. I love it I just remember that exact phrasing like it was like I've heard these exact words before in disorder Jay, welcome to the clairvoyant club All right, we'll use your powers for good.  That's not I don't care. I want it to work I said it. Yeah, I mean I said it last episode. I don't care. I'll say it again Oh, if you did say it last episode then it then it wasn't deja vu and And If you said that exactly what we last episode that I was just remembering And fringy's just got me thinking about deja vu and he's poisoned my brain No, I haven't You turned her against me. Hey, look at the scene transition. But boom Yeah, it's like I'm watching archer here Yes Yes Archer has good scene transitions.   You think it's the worst scene in the whole show, correct? Yeah, I don't think it's very close I honestly don't know if it's worth getting into it. Does anyone have any problems with this scene? With which part in particular? Uh any of it. Do you have a problem with any of the breaks basically any any individual element? I I'd have to re-watch it again and pay close attention, but I don't recall having any issues. Um Uh No, what what was uh, what what came to your mind? Okay Uh, I I don't think the scene needs to be here. I think all the characters are acting out of character Basically everything vice as the katelin doesn't make sense. It doesn't make sense based on what she knows. It doesn't make sense based on their characters Um, yeah, I don't know like everything This is the only scene in the entire show where I'm like just like this is just a bad scene Um Like I we can go through the individual like I have all the lines written down if you want me to go through it Oh, absolutely Yeah, that's the thing is I don't know that we had the time and I don't know that the audience 50 minutes so if we can just do this in under 10 Yeah, okay, sure. Um, so there's there's not there's not that many lines So let me so I'll just summarize it as best I can as as a scene for those listening and for those here Can't quite remember so they enter the brothel Uh Katelin is still weary about what the fuck's going on here. She keeps asking questions. Vy says uh You need to How you need to convince people you have something they want in order for them to talk Um, and then kate is like, what are you doing?  It is worth noting too that that the the gals she's talking to is the same gal that was uh given Looks at clagger True. Yeah, and in the yeah in like episode two um I mean, okay, so the first thing to say is that I don't think this is necessary at all like one of the like One of the cardinal sins of writing is if you can just take a scene and remove it and nothing changes That's a pretty good indication that something is wrong You think nothing is necessary. I guess so I don't think it serves a marriage purpose I guess the first question would be What do you What do you think actually no that would probably be the I was thinking about the other way around right like what what does the scene Like if if the stuff is happening in the scene and stuff is happening. What isn't being advanced? uh, I mean that the What the scene is trying to present as the narrative purpose is that like they're going to go around and like ask people for information and try and Uh, basically start sleuthing um But a lot of the interest scene information is contradictory. So In like one of the first lines is Caitlyn saying how exactly do you propose we go about this? Vi has a connection in here. They don't like they They can just go up and talk to the person That like is most likely to have the information, which is exactly what happens So why would they need to go about things in any particular way? Because Vi's not telling Caitlyn anything Yeah, Vi wants Caitlyn to be elsewhere So Caitlyn has no idea what's going on I mean Okay, so when when Vi says let them think you work here There's no presumption that this is going to work. She just wants her to leave. Absolutely. She wants Caitlyn That's what the whole point was. Yeah, she wants Caitlyn to go off and do something while she could have a chat unsupervised Yes, we just threw her at a rando is like was there any that was that person anyone? Vi wants to do this all herself Um, she has a very specific goal and it's only facilitated by this scene. I'm very curious how this scene could possibly be removed Uh, I mean If she wants to do things by herself then like I don't understand she Like we we just saw a scene where Vi could have been by herself. She Didn't need to wait for Caitlyn. I mean she was completely separated Well, she did that's part of the the convenience of it is the Caitlyn drops down right next to her when she's collecting the clothes Wait, so I thought we established that there was like a time jump where now Vi didn't like wait for her Uh, well, she seems to be walking toward her with the clothing. I don't know if she sat there waiting for her I guess maybe she would have but um, I would also argue that I don't know that Vi wants to leave Caitlyn in uh In just the streets She seems to want her to just stay put here Which is a place that she knows is safe friendly and owned by a friend as well okay, so The next line is you know what your problem is you expect everyone to give you What you want if you really want people to talk to you you have to let them think you have what they want You think this is a justified line given what Vi knows about Caitlyn thus far. Yes. Yes. Yeah why It's true Caitlyn has done nothing but demand information and Answers and you know leads and stuff and it's also just a fairly simple view of top-side is from the The only the only person Caitlyn has tried to get information from is Vi and she was successful Not that successful She's asked many questions and gotten what like 10 percent of the answers she's looking for And remember the scene with with Chungus awesome man the food guy She's just there assuming that it's bullshit and worthless, but like it turns out they're actually achieving something Yeah, Chungus guy sends them here, which this place is important, but we haven't gotten to that yet Sure, but like okay Like okay, this is gonna be hard to discuss without discussing later things. I'll try to not do that but like I think it is a factual statement and not just factual but crucial to Caitlyn's arc that people tend to give her what she wants And that her arc is like rejecting that Do you think she got what she wanted when she was placed in a role that she explicitly says she didn't want? And then she's told to leave the crime scene when she was trying to follow leads And then she's stopped from being an enforcer when she's involved in something dangerous And then she's told to become a secretary that's not involved in anything And then she rebukes all of that and goes out on her own adventure. Do you think that's her getting what she wants from people? Most people are trying to give her what they think she wants and she typically Yeah, they want they're putting her where they want because that's a class that she belongs to she doesn't want to do What they keep forcing her to do Okay, yeah, and she gets again she she gets what she wants she wants to be an enforcer She gets to be an enforcer I feel like you know that that is not Fair as a representation of the environment that she is in compared to where she wants to be It's her opening scene in episode four That she's she's guarding the fair and jace is like, oh, there's gonna be lots of crime at the fair, huh?  My mum put me here Because it keeps her close to her because close and safe And then that gets removed when she's hurt on the job She demotes her again The the only thing that vi knows about her at this point is that Caitlyn wanted information from vi and she gave the information to Caitlyn She gave information to her not much And also, I think it would be reasonably safe as an inference that you as somebody who lives in like the slums Meets like, you know rich kid That they just expect things. That's like an expectation that she yeah, that was my first That she said Yeah, and she's wrong. Yeah vi thinks that the people in the upper part of town.  Caitlyn's a little bit more complicated than that Yes, that's true But Caitlyn has expectations.  How are you getting information? Where are we going?  She just asks for them It's not true though. She doesn't get the things that she wants Her entire approach is like not working So it's like a really good observation of like a problem that Caitlyn has that she can just fix What did vi observe from Caitlyn that led to this statement? What so it's literally prejudiced what we've just been talking about for yeah Like she she thinks that this is what people from like the from pills overthink Like and how they conduct themselves. They don't have to I mean, then it's not an observation. It's like a stereotype Well, yeah, because why is her as a flawed person? She is she is prejudiced and biased Yeah, so part of it part of it is half observation and half of her own like bias against yeah, that's that's part of why the line So good. There's like it's half true in terms of Caitlyn that she does have this problem It's half true in terms of people with Caitlyn, but she doesn't know Caitlyn personally exactly She exactly and it is in part informed by their relationship up to this point because like I said Caitlyn's really been doing is just demanding answers Yeah, you know, meanwhile vi is trying to play the undercity like the way you're supposed to which is a little bit more What are we doing here? Like we're wasting time here eating food. It's like no, we're not. I'm getting information And let's look at this Complimenting the chef and his food probably plays into getting the information she wanted off him as well Well, it's just you you're building relationships. You're uh, you playing the game of of our zone, I guess Okay, I mean there's a lot more I could say but I we should probably just well, do you disagree with all of that or? I mean vi is basically saying like So you do yeah It's a slot perfectly for me. I don't know It all of them say I really like the seed and now I want to address specifically like it could be cut Nothing changes when she speaks to the owner One of the first things we establish is that silco didn't just take over the undercity He took over begrudgingly against a lot of other people who tried to stand up to him and they failed This is very important to This is the first time we really learn about it. Yeah, she's like I see nobody lifts it a finger to do anything And she's like people tried Which I find to be very compelling as uh, it wasn't as simple as yeah Still goes our leader now who is people probably tried to stop him tried to form groups against him They all got killed or surprised the money and the muscle And I guess also to talk like We've kind of glossed over but another really important in this scene This is the beginnings of like the romantic relationship between vi and katlyn. Definitely. Yeah Um, this is the start. It's actually really important in that regard That well, so we got that's two, but I'm gonna add a third This is how she finds out where savika is Yes, so it's plot critical Next scene, yeah Vice crescendo for the episode And so it's doing a lot in a fairly short scene. So yeah, so that will be the question Do you think that the scene doesn't advance any of those things? I think that the scene could be cut and she could just show up at the last drop and savika is there and Like nobody would notice you could do it that way, but that that's like simply that's just a different story You could do it so that she knows like Savika personally goes to a house or like she knew where she like we could do all kinds of no I'm saying I'm saying that the last drop is the most reasonable place for her to go like So she did go there and spotted loads of guards So it's not going to be until it's plot critical that she will go there She would rather go to a safe place It's owned by a friend to get as much information about the updates of what happened in this undercity since she went to prison And what she gets is yes silco's taken over.  I'm just saying that like the well, so then it's story the story reason to exist then right? Like if the scene accomplishes anything The scene accomplishes something that doesn't like if you just cut the scene what it's accomplishing wouldn't be necessary But like it's what you cut the scene and this has to be done another way Yeah, we're missing if you cut this we're missing things For example vai catching up on what happened in the undercity Vi knowing exactly where savika is instead of looking out that she's in the last drop at the time she checks it Like why not add more reason instead of removing it and then of course building their relationship and establishing exactly what they think of each other Very quickly. Yep. It's it's like some extra character development That would kind of seem a little forced if we were to get them together at this point without this scene And this is an environment where like it feels more organic that you would have Especially when we're doing the scene where we're trying to build like vai's perception of katlin as well as like katlin's Sort of problems that she's having to deal with It's probably the place to do it Um Well, it's an easy way to get a reference out of her thinking she's hot in a brothel Exactly in a brothel and then and then basically definitively establishing like yeah katlin swings that way and vai is also kind of Like that seems to make her happy It's like, okay, we're getting a lot of stuff like and and it's in five seconds like you do that in five seconds It really expeditious Yeah, and if and vai could have thought that katlin just wasn't going to listen to a damn thing She said but the fact that katlin is now doing what she said and learning She's like, oh, maybe she's not so bad after all planted a little seed, you know I like this scene quite a bit. It's good I do. Yeah Um, so that's that's that's all I've got to say on what's in it and what it achieves Outside of just looking great too. But that's basically the whole show Um, are we do we do we progress? We progress. I'm I'm fine with progressing because we got another one of the best scenes ever There's a lot of those.  Is that the coin? That's the one. It's like that's the one He capped it I imagine that weighs on him quite a bit Yep We are how many pieces 30 Okay, do you think I said something else? Do you think I got the reference wrong? Is that I thought you said uh 50 for a moment, so I was just clarifying you would have you would have corrected me, wouldn't you?   It's a funny place to pause but I think yeah Silco surprised the explosion that it just cuts to black.  Yeah. I was like damn Um, yeah, I I didn't I didn't buy it like after the first second of like.  I thought No, it's cool. So the main thing in my head was like you wouldn't have killed silco that quickly Yeah But yeah, just that's the conflict in his head. It's what he wants to do Even envisioning himself Happily dying at this point because he's struggling with this all Yeah, he's been struggling for a while. It's mountain on him. He's trapped. What were the repercussions if he'd done that? um, well, I think That's really complicated right because obviously silco knocked out creates Big chaos for I wonder if that would have killed jinx too because she's sitting up there Big power vacuum and then of course, you know that there are other players in uh in the under city if it somehow revealed That he was in cahoots with silco. I don't know if it would to the to the piltove people or just be seen as he was down there and got killed Um, but yeah, uh jinx is down. She's she's sad.  Um And I think she even says she can't get their faces out of her head.  Hmm Hmm Yeah He's trying to be a good dad Well, that's probably a subject at some point when we get further along with like Plenty of people have talked about that with plenty of strange things to say, you know, I think it's super interesting I like it a lot Um, but yeah Specifically he says we need you to weaponize the hex text soon. You're the only one I can trust with this Like uh, even jinx suggests giving it to the scientist Which by the way is kind of like who dat because uh She says yeah same thing. Oh well.  So, um, we got a scene where jason mel they they do a sex They do yeah boy.  Yeah And while they because you know for a lot of people they'd have to explain it Yeah, I It took my brain a second to catch up. This is the scene that's also got victor working on a science. Yeah, um it's such a dramatic back and forth that he's struggling to work hard enough to be able to save his own life while Jason mel just celebrated the manipulation of the entire council together.  They can give anything back Hmm. So obviously they see what they're doing is almost entirely altruistic and uh tells you something about a family um But yeah, uh, we actually get a little Sigma a little bit. Yeah a little bit. Yeah Uh, the the girl is like, oh man, wouldn't wouldn't want to go home on my own We'd love you know someone to to give me like a walk home and victor's like busy. Go away.  Um, actually, I think is this the imagine dragons cameo Was it any man? And I assume so I don't know what they look like we have the silco jinx. Oh, right. Let's talk about that.  There's a lot of those. Um He is kind of cool that we start out as well that he's beginning like Advice or speech and she's like bored because he's probably it's silco imagine him as a dad He probably gives you like strong advice literally every second you talk to him just constantly advice Um, yeah, he says I almost drowned in these waters and that day I let a weak man die Another was reborn which is obviously in reference to jinx's insecurities that she's been telling him about And that's how she can solve it Is to it's like, what is it? Um, it's a game of thrones quote, right kill the boy And uh the man Something like that Um Betrayal the pain that can make you feel inside out can either break you or forge you into something stronger And then he says jinx is perfect Very much believes in jinx silco.  Um And I guess validation in the same kind of way. Yeah, which he He gives her a lot of and she does seem to appreciate it quite a bit. Um It's honest. Honestly, I can't believe I'm saying this.  Okay So here we go, like the cringe What are you guys? It's cringe moving on Well, is there anything to say about it? I don't know. I just know it's cringe. Not really. It's just cringe I wouldn't recommend it. It feels really weird It does it's it would have been like if it was really subtle Like if a band was playing in the background And they stayed in the background. Yeah, and it was just you saw him for just a little bit And you're like, oh that kind of looks like the da da da. That's a nice little like easter egg And this is just like we are imagine dragons made music. Look at us Well, yeah, because the song starts and then it shows it's almost like it's almost a music video and it's like Yeah They wanted to get vi to savika and I don't think they could I don't know. Maybe they maybe they thought it'd be cool to give imagine dragons a cameo because you know They work with them a lot.  Just don't make it so over Yeah, I think that's Some people are like, why is it cringe? It's like, I don't know that we can explain it more than that if you don't find it Cringe, that's totally fine. Cringe is not a science. It's a magic. It is The magic of cringe Um, it was actually uh I was talking to goger a bit.  And it's a point in the song where it like reaches some kind of point and then it cuts to victor in the hospital And he just he felt that's just way too inappropriate Uh the song with the event. Well, I think it's very appropriate because there was so much cringe I felt like I needed to go to a hospital The scene brought and then the scene brought me there It gets worse to me because the song comes back in afterwards. Yes the same point Well, and uh, and at the same time we're dealing with an image like this from marcus's pov.  Yeah um Obviously because like I can't be playing audio to you guys we get thrown off the interwebs But the song is playing dragons would be very they're very proud of their cringe cameo. They would they would stop us That's the thing. Um, you know, I appreciate that they've done work for myself But you can do cameos in all kinds of ways, right? You don't have to do it that way Not like this there's there's better ways. Maybe not like a rich end one was really good.  I guess so you'd say So tragic All victor Um So something that uh, I want to highlight I have an image for it Oh, I'm so prepared We actually see Um, the kids that they fought But older They're all grown up goons Or at least this is the um, this is an image put together by Someone who's a fan of the show. I'm pretty sure they're right on the first two I'm not sure about the middle one. They might be right I was curious if we'd see him again in some capacity Look at him then and now Oh, I didn't let me click on the Oh, okay.  I'm not sure if that's what they're going for permanent nose damage Call that a broken nose Not the temporary nose I've got permanent nose damage, you know, I didn't know that jay But yeah, it's not visible, but it's um, it's mental Are you gonna get down? It's mental. No, it's physical, but it's not, um, visible Uh, basically the cartilage is broken so I can bend it in ways that you would not expect a nose to bend But by default it sits in a normal nose position But uh, but yeah, this is really neat.   So I love the Savika is awesome. She's really really Deserves to be a game well Um, give her a robot arm isn't silco the most likely addition to the game first I think probably not coming to the game Savika feels a lot more gamey In terms of the things that you can do with that character with moves and stuff the robot arm Yeah, robot arm thing with the blade. Yeah, especially. Yeah, what you see her do in the last episode.     Yeah, let's fine. Let's fight this league Even do the it's it's it's you know, she's got her own history and it's not about vi like her life doesn't revolve around her I'm not just bad because bad person in exactly um Shots like this. I'm like, oh, I appreciate how big you make vi look good Gotta gotta do that because it makes me help me believe that she's able to pack a punch She's linear Yeah, but um Still still a bulky lass who you muscle on those arms. Yeah um Yeah, it's a pretty good fight And I'm trying to think of parts I can show because copyright's lame But um, yeah, they both hit hard against each other. Um, it's just mostly a matter of attrition. It seems And uh, I'd say vi is more driven, but she uh, savika is getting regular pumpings of shimmer or at least a variant of shimmer uh Makes it pretty threatening, but But they both deal pretty significant damage to each other um Even like has a point where she heats up her arm to like burn vi's face Hmm Metal's not here to tell us what wrestling moves being done. I'm afraid Spirit bomb What's a wrestling move, right? Yeah, I'd believe it. All right, then Don't try to find things to showcase it some way A bit where savika slams behind at the ground is one that I like a lot because of the way the camera rotates with it Very well, I will show that Just as an example, I guess This is kind of the problem. I'm trying to find the best bits. It's like it's also solid that I'm just like which part do I choose? Like they're all really cool the All the camera angles the different choices during the fight of where to hit and how to dodge While you're thinking about that, I'm going to introduce a tangent one of the cool things about 200 cc and mario cut Eight is um because of the way that the game is made originally was was ever there a smoother segue. I think not even attention So 200 cc and mario cut eight. One of the cool things about it is uh because the game wasn't designed for 200 cc Uh, there are elements that are a little bit flippy, but in ways that are cool Like for instance, you can outrun like a red shell If depending on which items you have or depending on how well you're playing you can like outrun it for ages And it's just like that's really cool in terms of a gameplay element that that if you're really good at the game And you can race through a course super quick You you could just like you could avoid items. You could outrun them. That's pretty cool. Um, I have you figured out What's up? I remember you talking about um that being no way to count to the blue shell Yeah, um, you can count the oh well there isn't mario cut eight Because they've got the the horn the super horn that blows remember um jack x If you've ever played that have you played jack? I think I played a little bit of jack x has it has a blue shell equivalent I think it's it's it's the peacemaker. It's called the peacemaker. I think um and Yeah, it just kills whoever's in first place But there's a really cool counter that you have to figure out for yourself Um, and I don't know if this works a mario cut If you're in first place and you you you can see it locking onto you Before it hits you as soon as it's fired you have like a little animation that tells you it's it's coming If you break and you go into second it will then hit the person who overtook you and you will then be in first place again That's it's a really cool way to counter it. It feels great I think that there's that's definitely something that should be like baked into these things like the blue shell always being an automatic I know that in mario cut we if you boost at the right time with a mushroom you can escape it But I think that's a glitch. I'm pretty sure that's not like a part of the design. So anyway, um Yeah, let's uh, let's skip back. We we only got 10 remember when vi evaded a blue shell Yeah, it was crazy. Theo do you want to Do the thing Oh as sure Someone in the discord pointed out to me uh that In the picture uh, it's marcus's daughter drew for him if it's on his desk There's a third figure in the sky along with the two like on the round So that's our indication for the fate of uh, marcus's wife Which we hear that she has died and that's all we get on that. That's fantastic That's a really great detail. It's something that you just miss probably in all likelihood, but it's there That's super good visual storytelling. It's great when you do it really well And uh, yeah, I've looped the uh The moment that Theo was talking about the camera spins with vi Whole fight. It's pretty cool Um shot would be very difficult.  Where is silco keeping her?   It's like, what are you? You didn't even know what's going on do you? It's so out of the loop There's a you need to really hurt vi with that as well Yeah, I was about to I maybe I don't want to jump ahead because there's a similar moment I think it's in the next episode where it's basically the same thing but the other way around Um And yeah, so when we're watching this I was like Uh, oh well actually so what happens basically she's asking these questions and vi is fucking confused by what savika tells her Which is very bad news because obviously she's hoping in a sense that powder is a victim not Decided to work for silco.   I think I think uh, the fact that she's a really good shot would make it Like that that she would take an opportunity to wound an incapacitate rather than kill because she knows she's gonna land the shot Yeah, and I doubt she wants the kind of attention of the person who is Of a guy who's running around and just killed a trencher when she's not supposed to be there. Well, it's fine Letting her get away means they'll definitely know we're here and um, and I think she says whose fault is that like, let's be honest here If I just take someone and chat has pointed out she disarmed her. Yes, she did I I made that joke myself. How did you just?   Yeah, like I know it's it's a little bit different a little bit a little bit different Different sort of nobody else in chat heard it. You must read. Yeah, they did. They were literally commenting on it They said ha ha with disarmed to me Then there were people saying they didn't hear it. So someone isn't telling that. Well, not necessarily lying Miss remember Yeah, um I forget the dialogue between them here, but I feel like it's worth mentioning. I just didn't write any of it down my bad um But she's wow Help me up cupcake and it's just a good little Bonus development forum. Caitlin just saved her life. She trusts her. This is neat They're they're working together.  We're getting there. They got the officer has a pet name. Oh Ain't that nice and she has little bear traps in the game that have cupcakes in them Yeah, yes on Honor if we see any more cupcakes like literal cupcakes in the future Who knows?   Because you know, he's a person he can never get How could you possibly have he's been lied to of his uh quick realization, but it's just yeah And that's it. That's episode five Man Re-edit your reviews to add silco in I might try and find a slot for him now because that's funny. Um But Yeah, we we were under under budget and under time. Well, how great not really we were hoping to do three episodes today Catch you loser. Um, that just means next week. We'll probably do four Uh, but yeah, how long yeah, that's exactly what it means next week. We'll do four That's gonna go real well. Stay tuned for next week where we'll do four Are we you're all suggesting that we won't do four that we'll do three and then there'll be a finale episode Is that what you're saying a suggestion is we'll do our best Chad if it makes you feel any better, we're just gonna be working on boba like as soon as this is done So you get that tomorrow will be maybe maybe that video will be like an hour and 40 to 50 minutes Um, yeah, we're making a feature length Yeah, basically and Yeah, we're aim is to get it to you tomorrow. All right, probably around Ideally, yeah, you know a few hours after normally if I'm I'm gonna set that premiere Many hours before it starts up to let everyone get in there in time if I see one complaint like Oh, there's this stuff like several hours banned killed sent to Like But yeah, uh, we're me and fring it very much looking forward to you guys seeing it. So it's uh, it's been a It's been a ride making that one an adventure. Um Yeah, I don't know what else to say cuz I feel like we should probably just stop around here Um, what anything else you guys want to say? What do you have to say about the end of episode five episode five? How did it go? Did you like it? Do you hate it? From the dead It just left me wanting more like all of the other episodes did I would actually argue that yeah, it's it's kind of similar in form I don't know. It's deliberate in any way, but like to episode one and two There's so much I have to say about what's working But none of it really relates too much to like huge emotional stuff. It's more. So just setting our stuff up Is episode six definitely got the sense that momentum we're starting to really build up momentum when moving, you know 679 is the Yes um But I did want to wonder is uh, how did where did circle hear that vi was dead? Marcus told him. Yeah, if you remember remember that becomes a relevant thing. Yeah, and he's like Yeah, I love the way circle explains that scene where he's like your your dad told me that uh an old friend of ours Was with their father like just trying to best explain the dramatics of the situation the english would be dead But a nice language Yeah, um We'll go overall So good.  We're uh, we're pro silco. I wish more silcos were in the world.  It's a winning face right there. Don't you want to hang out with this guy? You know the charm in his eye So, um Where's the batwomans they shall make a return after The buggerboat but This is the other thing that's happening is that once i'm done Sorting out the copyright for episode seven I'm gonna add it on to a big old render of all of them put together and that'll be released as one video too Um because it just seems to make the most sense at this point. Why not? It's a bit of fun Um, and I was asking my stream last night whether or not it should be premiered Should I premiere that for the fun of chat messing around or should it just come out? And um, it was a little bit split. I was saying release or premiere And um, I had like votes for either side. I didn't do a poll, but it just like a Curse the area sort of look cursory look it seemed kind of fit 50. So uh chat Say the word release or premiere to tell me what you would prefer to engage with the Complete set of the bow the fat reactions all in one video released on moola probably a week after tomorrow And premiere seems to be dominated Okay, this is way more in one direction than it was last night If if they want to go and see like all of it then all the episodes are already out, right? Well So this is the thing if if they had overwhelmingly voted for release I would be like but why Because it's the same deal. You just have to wait a little bit longer before you can scroll to the end You know, which is a strange restriction, but ultimately as jade just said you could Uh go and look at the other stuff anyway It seems like people want the premiere experience It looks like premiere is dominated. So I don't have to worry about that. Uh premiere the moola cut very well You shall get it. Um, but yeah, I Anything you guys want to talk about before we just we just run off we run away Oh, I suppose not really. Um, I ain't got anything for you No Almost caught myself saying short and sweet, but that is just so not accurate five hour streamer Um, did you pop that? I might have missed it. Oh, right. Hang on Put it up. You should put your eyes put. I sent you on stream as well. I worked really hard on it Did you? Yeah good I don't even know that we would have been able if you cut out the entire present discussion I don't think we could fit episode six in there Because we probably would have stopped midway through Right at the end of five. Yeah, perfect timing. We planned it out from the beginning to be just like this You're welcome all along. We're only going to do two episodes. Good job following the script everyone. Yes I'm sure everyone loved that uh Thank you dover did that on purpose. He didn't actually he didn't actually believe anything he said He just wanted some conflict. Yes. Yeah, it was all for content Exactly, dude. Now. That's what I call an inner conflict.  I love you Yeah, I don't know As well as I thought it would It made me feel that's what matters um Yeah, see you all next week for the next installment of our gain coverage until then you will see us tomorrow sort of That's like sort of them seeing us, right? Yes a little bit, but they'll also see us on when We'll we'll have a chat with them. Why will we catch up on today's super chats as well as many more as we can We have the book of boba fat episode eight And we'll be We gotta meet to watch that seven and we're gonna meet to watch that and then afterwards we'll do something You're gonna be great. Yeah, thank you all for hanging out. Thanks for listening. Thanks for donations We're gonna catch them all up and catch you all around next time. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye Bye. Bye. Bye. See ya. Ciao. See you later. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Goodbye. Bye. Goodbye Mine