And now, Roma Wines, R-O-M-A, made in California for enjoyment throughout the world. Roma Wines presents... Suspense! Tonight, Roma Wines bring you Mr. Vincent Price and Mr. Lloyd Nolan as stars of Hunting Trip. A suspense play produced, edited and directed for Roma Wines by William Spear. Suspense! Radio's outstanding theater of thrills is presented for your enjoyment by Roma Wines. That's R-O-M-A. Roma Wines. Those excellent California wines that can add so much pleasantness to the way you live. Do your happiness in entertaining guests. Do your enjoyment of everyday meals. Yes, right now, a glass full would be very pleasant, as Roma Wines bring you Lloyd Nolan and Vincent Price in a remarkable tale of... Suspense! It began with just a little hunting trip for the two of us, Eric and me. I hadn't seen Eric for several months, not since before Karen died, in fact. When I bumped into him at the club, he suggested that we run up to his cabin in the mountains for a few days. Grab a bit of fresh air and relaxation, see if we couldn't bag ourselves a mousse or a deer. And yet, almost at the outset, I had an uncanny feeling about that trip. I suppose actually it was the night and the setting. It was the blackest night I'd ever seen. We'd left all humankind behind us. There was no moon. There was only blackness, the kind that seemed to be all enveloping, as though there was nothing outside our car, but blackness, no road, no forest, no mountains. Well, I admit I was nervous. I was boring my feet into the floorboard of the cars, though somehow that would help. What are you laughing at? You, Stan. You don't look as though you're having a very good time. Well, I'm not, right? Frankly, shouldn't you be driving a little bit slower? Why? Why, good heavens, Eric, if you make just one little slip of the wheel, we're done for that. So all I doubt if they'd ever even find us down in those canyons. Nonsense. I know every crook and turn in this road. I don't think you're much of an outdoors man, Stan. Well, maybe not. I love this kind of country in the daytime, but I'll confess I'm not so keen on it at night. I don't like what I can't see. Funny, I'm just the opposite. There's, well, there's a challenge in the darkness that stimulates my senses. It's exhilarating. It stirs my imagination. Sure, I suppose it would, but I'm not equipped to grapple with the mysteries of the universe. Stan, you're much too modest. You always were. You've gotten out of life pretty much what you wanted, haven't you? Well, yes, I suppose so. And then don't always be belittling yourself. It's an effective technique, Stan, but I'm on to you. You're as clever as the next fellow in your own way. A tribe to relax. Things weren't quite as Eric had pictured them. I was born with a silver spoon in my mouth, as they say. Eric had come up the hard way. I was average and soft. He was brilliant and hard. We'd known each other a long time going to school together, being in love with the same girl, Karen. When I married her, he was my best man, and yet I didn't pretend to understand him. He was still pretty much of a stranger to me. I glanced over his way. He actually seemed to be enjoying himself. It crossed my mind that he was rather enjoying seeing me in a bit of a lather, too. Well, it's not far now. Just around the next bin. Well, thank the Lord. Well, am I amusing you again? No. I was just thinking what a perfect spot this would be for a murder. A murder? Honestly, Eric, I believe that's all you think about. It is almost. When I buy a newspaper, I read about murder the way you study the stock quotations. Murder is fascinating to me.  Now you're trying to sound like a mental case. Who knows? Perhaps I am. I have a mind. Well, here we are, old man. You see, I've delivered you safe and sound, all in one piece. Rick's cabin was perched high on a rocky crag jutting out from the side of a mountain with one more flush against a sheer drop. In front, there was a steep path leading down to a lake. I could hear the lapping of the waves. Eric fixed us something to eat and went outside. Pretty soon, he came back in. I'm full of logs. This place was red and healthy. I don't think you like my place, Stan. Huh? Oh, yes, I do. Honestly, I'm just tired, I guess. Well, we'll turn in directly. Oh, thanks. Cigarette? Yes, thanks. I believe I will. I like it here. All the privacy in the world. Say, Eric. Yes? Why do you read about murder? Why do you read about stocks and bonds? Well, because they interest me. It's my business. My business doesn't interest me. I read about murder because I'm interested in people. Murder is emotional. When people are being emotional, you get to see more of them. Why are you so interested in people? Oh, I think I'm more curious than interested. Well, all right. Why so curious? It amuses me. I find out about people. I write down what I find out and I write my impressions of how those people will react to a series of circumstances. It's a good way to get rid of one inhibition. Sort of a frightening hobby. I think stamp collecting is frightening. You're too darn clever, Eric. Why too clever? Well, I mean you see through people. Well, what's wrong with that? Unless, of course, they have something they want to hide. Oh, I suppose it's all right if your friends don't mind. Do you? Mind? No, Evans, no. Why should I? That's right. Why should you? Well, how about hitting the hay? We have to be up early. We'll only get a few hours sleep as it is. This is me. You sleep in my study, Stan. The beds in there is a bit more comfortable. I'll bunk out here on the couch. I had undressed and gotten into bed and was reaching over to put out the light on Eric's desk when my eyes fell on a stack of typewritten sheets. I wondered if they were the notes Eric had been speaking about. The strange mumbo jumbo he'd written there, phrases he liked, single sentences describing people he'd met. There were a few clippings pasted on sheets of white paper, clippings describing murders, by strangulation, by pistol, by drowning, by poison. The full sheet was devoted to Karen. I hadn't realized how much he cared for. His analysis was very kind, almost mortland. He spoke of his shock at hearing of a suicide, and he tried to reason it to find causes. Small memo pad caught my eye, however. And on the last page, I saw my name carefully printed. I read it eagerly. I read Eric's arguments for not hating me because I had married Karen. I read Eric's cold analysis of my character. Not exactly flattering, but it was pretty accurate. And at the bottom of the page, newly written by the looks of it, and in Eric's own careful hand, I read, Four ways to commit murder, by strangulation, by pistol bullet, by drowning, by poison. For Suspense, Roma Wines are bringing you Vincent Price and Lloyd Nolan in Hunting Trip, by Paul Bernard and Lee Horton. Roma Wines' presentation tonight in Radio's Outstanding Theatre of Thrills, Suspense. Between the acts of suspense, this is Ken Niles for Grand Estate Wines. Last night, a friend who entertains frequently told me how much he likes Grand Estate Wines. Those wines of outstanding excellence presented by Roma, America's greatest vendor. Here's what he said. Recently Ken, I served Grand Estate Wine to some very particular guests, people who really know wine. Their sincere praise for that wonderful fragrance and taste was certainly flattering to me as a host. Grand Estate Wines are outstanding. Yes, to bring you this limited bottling of Grand Estate Wines, Roma selected only the choices juice-laden grapes from California's finest vineyards. Then, at Roma's famed wineries unmatched in winemaking resources, Grand Estate Wines are patiently, skillfully guided to perfection. Necessary time and the age-old skill of Roma master-vintners endow each Grand Estate Wine with brilliant clarity, full fragrance and mellow taste. So, whatever the occasion, you're sure to please all tastes with Grand Estate California Wines. Medium sherry, ruby port and golden muscatel for delightful entertaining. Grand Estate Burgundy and so turn for gracious dining. Remember the name, Grand Estate Wines by Roma, the crowning achievement of vintner skill. And now Roma Wines bring back to our Hollywood soundstage. Lloyd Nolan as Stan and Vincent Price as Eric in Hunting Trip. A tale well calculated to keep you in suspense. Suppose I slept that night but it seemed as though I had only just dozed off when I heard the door open quietly. I opened when I cautiously it was still gray in the room so I know I hadn't slept long. I was about to open both eyes to save Eric the trouble of waking me when I thought he hasn't come to wake me. My mind threw two words at me by strangulation. Before I had the chance to move I felt his hands carefully on my throats. Why, Stan, what's the matter? I thought for a minute that you're... I guess I must have been dreaming, nightmare.  Oh, did I? What's the matter? Have you got a guilty conscience? Yeah. Yeah, I guess I have it. What did you want, Eric? Time to get up. Oh, already? Yeah, that's right. I've got good news too. I just spotted the likely-looking buck right across the lake when I went down for water. Oh, good. Good. Well, I'll get breakfast going as soon as you're ready. Yeah, be right with you. There's no rush. Take your time. Nice to have you here. Well, maybe it was a way that he'd said that as though he'd really meant it. For a minute I was convinced that I'd let my imagination run away with me. And as for putting his hand on my throat, that was an accident. He'd been groping for my shoulder. Well, the next minute I was asking myself, was it an accident though? Suppose I'd really been asleep. Suppose I hadn't grabbed his hands. I still didn't know what to think. Well, I dressed and we sat down to breakfast.  I'll give you some coffee. There you are. Thanks. Sugar coming up. No, no sugar for me, thanks. Well, Stan, when are you going to confess? What do you mean confess? Or shall I drag it out of you? What are you driving at? Oh, come now. You're not going to play the adolescent schoolboy with me. I swear, I don't... I'm referring to the lovely young woman you've been seen dining with and taking to the theater. Oh, you mean Marsha. Is that her name? Yes, yes. Well, go on. Where did you meet her? How? When? Is she wealthy? Is she as beautiful as they say she is? Come on. Let's have this sorted detail. No, Eric, you're barking up the wrong tree. Am I? Oh, I'll admit I've taken her out occasionally, but nothing like that. Marsha, do I know her? No, I don't believe you do. Isn't her last name Jenkins? Yes. Oh, of course I know her. That is, I met her. Well, don't you remember you introduced me to her yourself? Oh, did I? Yes, don't you remember I ran into you at Silver's. You were buying perfume and she was helping you select it. Her Karen, remember? Oh, yes, yes. Now that you recall it... More coffee? Uh, yeah, no sugar. Well, when we got to the lake, we bailed out the boat, loaded it and pushed it out into the fog. It was still half light when we reached the other side, so we sat in the boat and lighted cigarettes, waited for the sun to come up. We'd been sitting there just smoking, not saying anything, when he suddenly turned to me and said... You say that she'd been ill? Uh, oh, Karen, yes. Yes, she'd been ill for some time, Eric. So she killed herself? Yes. There was an inquest, of course. Yes, of course. Why do you ask? Look at that sun. Did you ever see such color?  I'd almost forgotten about Eric's hands on my throat. Now the incident jumped vividly back to my mind because now I knew that Eric had a reason. He looked away after he asked me about the inquest. He didn't answer me when I asked him why he wanted to know. Somewhere in that strange dark corner of his mind, he was still obsessed by love for Karen. Even though she was dead and gone, he thought that she'd still be alive and happy if she hadn't married me. My legs were weak when he motioned me out of the boat. A deer blew somewhere nearest. We stopped. Hey, did you hear that? Yeah. Listen, it's moving west. Yeah. Stan, you work west just about half a mile or so ahead of us. You'll come to a clearing. Take your stand there. Right. I'll strike north and west and then work toward the clearing. Good hunting. This is it then, I thought. He'll hide somewhere along the way to the clearing and shoot me in the back. Now that I knew what to expect, I felt somewhat relieved. At least I'd be ready for him. Nothing happened until I'd nearly reached the clearing. Then I got the feeling that someone was walking with me, timing his steps with mine. I stopped. I don't know how long I stood there. My rifle gripped in my hands. But suddenly, instinctively, I wheeled around.  Then I saw a buck running across the clearing. He'd shot at me and missed. Well, two can play at that game, I thought. The next shot would be mine. I wouldn't miss. I dropped on my knees, watching the brush for him. Then all of a sudden, I saw him running toward me, right out in the open. I started to raise my rifle, but I couldn't. I couldn't kill a man that way in cold blood. Dan, Dan, did I hit you? You can't find you. Now hold on a minute, old son. Let's not lose our heads. I'm terribly sorry, of course, but I had no idea you were to take stand in the clearing, so I naturally assumed you were there. I don't know what I'd say. Well, maybe it was my fault, I don't know. Anyway, let's forget it. But I said, let's skip it. But close to Eric after that, I gave no more opportunity for a shooting accident. It was dusk when we headed back toward the cabin. We didn't get our buck, not that I cared, and I'm sure Eric didn't. He was at the different game. Then I saw a boat on the beach. I crowned him. You were alone. I couldn't refuse to get in the boat with him. There was no other way of getting back to the cabin. I could feel the perspiration trickling down my ribs. I stumbled in the underbrush. Easy, easy now. It's too bad we didn't bag that fella. Oh, right? That buck. Better luck tomorrow, maybe. Yeah, better luck tomorrow. You seem preoccupied, Dan. Do I? Yes, I have the ghastly feeling that I'm failing you as a host. I don't think you're having a very good time. I... I think this is a marvelous country, Eric. You've exercised phenomenal restraint, old son. What do you mean? About expressing your admiration for it. I'd never have suspected that you liked it so much. That remark called for some sort of an answer, but I wasn't equal to it. Fortunately, I was spared the necessity. We reached the lake and the boat then. We tossed our guns into it. Eric started to push out the shore. Hop in, Stan. Easy does it now. Hang on to the oars, will you, while I climb in? All set? All set. Splendid.  I know this lake. There's some treacherous spots in it. What do you mean?  Some of them that aren't easy to spot. Come too close to the surface to comfort. I see. We were to hit one of them. We'd turn over in a hurry. You don't swim, do you, Stan? You know done well I don't. Oh, that's a shame. It's a mistake not to learn to swim, don't you think? That was a nightmare. He rowed. I sat there, paralyzed. I couldn't move. I couldn't think. I knew I should do something, but what? I stared at the water till I was blind, looking for rocks. Eric's face was a blur. He just smiled, rowed, rowed and talked. His voice sounded hollow, unreal. You're shaking, Stan. Is something wrong? This lake's plenty deep. Lots of fish in it, too. Maybe we can do a little fishing. He stopped suddenly. He'd seen something in the water. He turned around, pulled hard on the oars. We'd reach the spot he knew it. And then... When he came up, Eric was there in the water near me. He didn't speak. He just grinned. Then I saw his face above mine, grinning. He saw him raise his face, strike me in. That's the last I remember. I was lying on the beach. Eric was standing over me, smiling. Well, hello. How are you feeling? I... OK, I guess.   I'm sorry. I thought that... No, don't try to talk now. You've had a pretty bad time. Take it easy. Who's all clear to me then?  It had been accidental. The boat turning over. He didn't want to kill me.  It had all been my imagination, the nightmare. The relief that flowed through my body was almost too much for me. It would tell her onwards to express how I felt. Eric held me up to my cabin and I stretched out in the couch. Eric went to the kitchen to fix hot coffee and soup. He brought the coffee and first pulled up the coffee table close to me and poured us each out a cup full. There you are. Get some of that into you and you'll feel different. Oh, thanks. I'll be back in a second. Soup coming right up. Hey, uh, Stan, do you like to cook? Huh? I said, do you like to cook? You know, I do. I... Well, I like to try different concoctions. Oh, not me. I'd just talk to death if I had to cook for myself. Oh, man. This coffee hits the spot. Ah, I can use a little of that, too. It sure does warm the innards, doesn't it? I got a little chilled. Nothing like a cup of coffee, I always say. That's what I always say, too, Stan. Well, I didn't... I say something funny when I'm using you again. Immensely. In fact, Stan, I think that's probably the funniest thing you ever said. How did you like it, Stan?  You read it, of course. Well, you... Yes, I... I couldn't tell you had, just as I intended you to. Were you frightened all day today? I don't understand. You didn't know, did you, that I came to your engagement party to ask Karen to be my wife. I wasn't aware that you were throwing a party or that she had accepted you. Look, good lord. Remember what I told you that night? You thought I was joking, but I meant every word I said that I'd make you pay if you failed Karen if you made her unhappy. Well, then all these years you would...  You're so right, Stan. But you pulled me out of the lake.   Don't you know me better than that?  Oh, no, Stan. You did take a shot at me. Oh, yes. That was the second way. The first way was by waking you up by the throat this morning. The boat tipping over was the third way. And now I suppose we've reached the fourth way. Your brilliance positively staggers me. You can't get away with it, Eric. Oh, yes, I can. I have. You see how intently I'm watching you? I'm waiting to see you fall.  What do you mean? In the coffee stand. That's right. Your coffee's poisoned. Just as you poisoned her coffee.  Poetic justice, don't you think? You poisoned my coffee? Yes, I wore down your guard. I planned it so that by now you would trust me, you would have faith in me. You poisoned my coffee? What? What? I didn't drink my coffee, Eric. I changed cups with you. There was sugar in my cup, Eric. I don't take sugar in my coffee, Eric. No, I changed cups with you. I didn't mean to do it, Eric, but there was my coffee. So you see, I didn't kill Eric really. He killed himself accidentally, but I wish he had killed me. He had a good reason to, because somehow he knew about Karen, about how I killed Karen by putting poison in her coffee that morning.  I'm tired now. I don't want to talk anymore. You do whatever you want with me. And presented by Rome of Wine, made in California for enjoyment throughout the world. And now our two distinguished stars, Lloyd Nolan and Vincent Price, are returning for a curtain call with William Spear, our producer-director of Suspense. Mr. Spear is carrying two large gift baskets of Grand Estate California wines. Lloyd and Vincent, and Vincent and Lloyd, just to keep the billing straight, we want you each to have a basket of these Grand Estate wines with our compliments for a thrilling performance. Thank you, Bill. This is quite a selection. Certainly is my thanks, too, Bill. Well, there must be a Grand Estate wine for every occasion here. I guess there is, isn't there, Ken? Well, there is indeed, Bill, even my favorite, Grand Estate Medium Sherry, a truly versatile wine. Grand Estate Medium Sherry is delicious as an aperitif before dinner. Delightful for afternoon or evening parties, too. And, of course, like all Grand Estate wines by Roma, Medium Sherry possesses the brilliant clarity, full fragrance and mellow taste that distinguish truly great wines. Well, it sounds wonderful. Yes, Mr. Nolan, and you can be sure that any Grand Estate wine you serve represents the ultimate in wine goodness, the crowning achievement of vintner skill. That's why Grand Estate wines presented by Roma, the greatest name in wine, are the choice of discriminating wine users everywhere. Well put, Ken. Vincent, what's new one startling over on the 20th Century Fox lot? Well, they're pretty excited about Daro Zanick's film version of Mom's The Raiser's Edge, which has just finished up shooting. And I guess the picture that they like best among the current releases is Florian Davin. Uh-huh. You're on loan not just now, away from the home lot, aren't you, Vincent? That's right, Bill, and Lloyd is, too. Yes, yes, sir, I will be in a couple of weeks right now. I'm just loafing, grabbed a little fishing, took a hunting trip up north.  No, thanks. Plenty of that tonight on Suspense. Bill, who's on the show next Thursday? It's Dane Clark in a suspense play about a gunsel, a professional murderer who doesn't know he has any emotions, until he finds himself falling in love with the wife of a man he's killed. That's wonderful. We'll be listening, eh, Lloyd? Oh, yes, sure thing. Well, then if you two will relieve me of these baskets of grand estate wines before my arms give way, there's a loud crack. Thanks again, Bill. Good night. Good night. Next Thursday, same time, listen to Dane Clark on Suspense, presented by Roma Wine Company of Fresno, California.


Jared Ricketts. And if you haven't heard about it before, you're going to hear about it right now. I'm the CEO of the EDPF Property Academy. Today is the start of our 50-day challenge where we have asked four celebrities to go with us on a journey of property investment. Today, with me, I have Jared Ricketts, known to many of you as a very popular singer placed here in Cape Town. We thank the private property for being a partner in this journey with us, as well as the venue that we are at, the beautiful Reddison Blue in Ribbon Street in Cape Town. This challenge where we help Jared to start their portfolio is a 50-day challenge where we will over 50 days starting today teach them how to start their property portfolio, teach them how to raise finance, teach them how to structure their portfolio, teach them where to find deals, and teach them how to build a community of support around them in order to help them build their property portfolio. All right, so let's introduce our very first celebrity, Jared Ricketts. Jared, please tell us about yourself, where you come from, and what you currently doing. Wow, so I am a singer, a songwriter, a performer, and I'm from the Cape Flets, at Lone specifically, and I'm involved in various different projects. I'm a fashion designer as well, and I have my own company called JBL Productions where we facilitate virtual corporate experiences across the country, and I'm just so excited to be here. So thank you to you and to EDP of the Academy, private property for being willing to share this kind of knowledge, and you know I'm all about learning, it's going to be new guys for me, but I'm grateful that you take me the time to educate us all on this. Fantastic, so guys, let's get started on our 50-day challenge, and the first question that I have for Jared is to ask him why property and why property investment specific? For me, it's a conversation I've never really been privy to. I don't come from a background where those conversations I had at the dinner table. Upon my own research, it is quite the industry and quite the opportunity to get involved in, and for me it's about creating wealth for myself and my family, and of course learning, so it's very important to me on that front. I've started developing a passion for property, so I've been on private properties app and website, so many times you're mocking what I would like to, you can dream, right? Absolutely, and I'm excited because I can finally potentially see this dream come to life. That is amazing, and it's fantastic also to know that Jared comes from the Cape Flats and Atlant specifically, because actually that's where I come from. Come on guys, come on. So we both come from the Atlant area, and basically I think we probably have the same experience where property has never been a discussion to be had at the dinner table, because our parents actually don't know about property and property investment. And their parents do. Absolutely. Yeah, and so I think this is so important. Yes, for me, but for all of you are going to be on this journey to become accustomed to knowing that this is an opportunity and it's possible for you. We look at something like property portfolios and we think it's unattainable. You know, how am I going to make this happen? And it's because this kind of information was withheld before. Yeah, absolutely.  So I can't wait. Okay, that's awesome. I wouldn't like to be called the uncle of the property business, but all right, let's go. The brother, the brother of the property business. Yeah, I think that's a bit better, yeah. So as we kick off this journey, the first thing that I need to understand from you Jared, before we can help you in the academy is what type of property would you like to invest in? And I thought about this wrong and hard and a property that makes me money is what I want. Absolutely. You know, I want something that I can, I don't have to live in, but something that can generate some kind of capital for me and they can pay itself off quickly and they will open the door and unlock further opportunities to acquire more. I'm not necessarily looking for that city slicker, you know, ceiling to ground, wall to wall glass. I'm looking for something that anybody would want to rent and that can provide some capital for me. Hello everybody and welcome back to the 50 day property challenge. Today we caught up with Jared Ricketts to see how he's doing with his property search, to see if he's got any deals on the cards. We are now on day 11 already of this property journey of ours and we've done a whole lot of training and learning and so on for 10 days as you would have seen. For those who have missed any of our sessions, you can go to edpfpropertyacademy.com and we have all of our sessions there. Alternatively, you can subscribe to our channel, our YouTube channel and again all of our 50 day challenges as well as our one-minute property tips. Everything is there. You've got some free training that you can do there and even join the academy if you wish. But today we caught up with Jared. Jared, welcome and thank you again for being part of this 50 day challenge. We are so excited that your journey has started and especially the fact that we are able to through this platform help the public to also become property investors which is really the aim of the Enterprise Development Property Fund and the EDPF Property Academy. So without any further ado Jared, give us an idea of where you're at now. We are on day 11. Have you looked at any properties? Have you found any properties? Are you looking at any opportunities? And then we'll talk about it from me. So it's been an interesting journey. I mean for me it's the first time so it's moments where you think you know what you're looking for and then you change your mind because something else pops up. I mean the private property app is really helpful and apricot. I've been able to set it for certain requirements. One bedroom, two bedrooms, just that kind of setting is just to make sure I can really zone in and look at what it is that I want for myself. And I found a few opportunities so I'm going to do a bit more research and inquire further. But for me it's still the back and forth between do I want a long-term rental? Do I want holiday rental? Do I want an Airbnb? Because that's quite popular you know it's a good way to get a return on your investment. And so I'm really excited. It's been an interesting educational journey thus far and like you'd I fully say you know I come from the music sector or I'd say the entertainment sector and for a lot of my colleagues in the business this feels like something very far-fetched. Feels like something you can't really attain. You know we all know the narrative transition that they always say we don't earn enough and we won't qualify for this or qualify for that. But I think to the course it's been exciting to see that we can unlock this for ourselves and it doesn't mean that hey you've got money in the bank you acquire a property because there's many ways to go about this you know whether you get a bond whether you are connecting with your networks you can help you invest. And I think it's cool because it's something I didn't even knew about I didn't think was possible but the closer I get to finding what it is I'm going to invest in I'm seeing that it's not difficult you just really have to educate yourself you really have to know what it is that you want and sort of have your ear on the ground with property trains you know what kind of properties are people renting how are they renting what is the what is the climate around that you know a few weeks a few yeah we spoke about student accommodation we spoke about just all of that it's a lot to factor in you know and that is all dependent on the area isn't an area that I have students because that makes more sense is it a holiday area is it a residential and and I really is going to affect the kind of I can say client that you'll get for rent from you because there's so many things to factor in because if you have a high end property you know that the kind of client you're going to try and attract to rent there's someone who has a certain income bracket you know so you can't go in blindly and just expecting that it's all going to work out there's so much research and understanding and questions that you have to ask and like I say I'm completely green in this maybe some of the people watching this have a deeper understanding but so many of you out there are just like me who are kind of not knowing but then you do know then you don't know so I think on this day I'm a little bit closer Nigel so I'm looking forward to seeing what happens in the weeks to come fantastic man um you're saying a little bit closer that means you've got a couple of deals that you're looking at give us an idea of one or two of the deals that you found sure so I found an apartment in town it's a one bedroom and that's a great opportunity for Airbnb because there's so many foreigners in our community the country for holiday and they're always looking for an inexpensive self-catering space to be because they want to be central they want to be in a hub and also looking outside of the normal sort of Cape Town facility I found another property that's a potential holiday rental so we'll have a look at that and see if that's where my head is at like I said before it's all about just weighing it up you know and understanding what's really going to work for you we all have different needs we all have different visions of where we want to be and how we want this property portfolio to work and so I'm excited to tap into those two opportunities that that resonated with me and we'll see which one outweighs the other and where are the investments so I'm looking forward to that all right awesome I do remember I mean we we've been talking now for almost three weeks about you know where you'd like to invest what type of stuff you'd like to invest in what your investment strategy is going to be and for those of you most any of those conversations you can just look back at some of the videos that we've cut already but basically you've you've managed to sort of zone in on a couple of concepts strategies that you're looking at and and it looks like these two opportunities very much fall in line with that where it's like abnb stuff holiday accommodation stuff where you're not looking for a place that you want to live in you actually want to look at places where you want to rent out on holiday accommodation or abnb space correct and I think it's understanding that Cape Town is known for that I mean Lintabaling is in Joberg and so we need these variants of fun you know in Cape Town we've got mountains we've got the ocean we've got the city and so we do because of tourism attracts a lot of foreigners and thinking about that you know in an age where just people are recovering from the pandemic and people are either losing jobs or getting new jobs and so the income is varied every month you know I want to take into a different market it's not necessarily a part of the Cape Town community but I'm taking advantage of the fact that you know dollars coming to the country euros coming to the country and maybe that's a way to pay off the bond and secondly um yeah just just to tap and create tap in and create my own little space for my portfolio you know and my specific kind of portfolio that I want to hold so yeah yeah and I understand that fully so you and I have over the couple of weeks now two weeks that we've been talking chatted quite a bit about people looking at you and Guy but you a celebrity you know you got lots of money you can do this uh you know us we are mortals on the street we can't do what you're doing so so tell us a little bit about that you know why you know why we're doing this first day challenge in the first place and and the fact that actually no uh just because I'm famous maybe doesn't necessarily mean that I have money yes I think it's also got to do with the fact that as we've mentioned before people aren't educated in this arena and so everything feels far-fetched it doesn't feels like it's a conversation that you can't be privy to because it's higher level it's it's but it's all things that you can learn that's what you're showing here and I think it's important for me for me as a musician to also show people that it doesn't matter where you come from or what kind of background you have um there are ways that you can build this portfolio it's about looking at your needs you know and as you rightly mentioned hey they're having a job in the public space we will see you every day with some TV is this assumption that you know the dollars are rolling in and the rams are rolling in and so of course it's easier for you to do this and we look for pocket myself and in tabloid we are our jobs our places happen to be public you know we're like everybody else that needs to go and work and earn a living and it's about looking at the finances you have and how can you unlock certain things with that of course myself and in tabloid you're not going to go in over our heads you know and and try and do something big and extravagant maybe as the portfolio grows and the finance is going to be able to unlock something like that but I think it's important for people to understand that I'm listen I'm as average as it comes and and I'm also trying to understand how I can hold a retirement for myself because I'm in an industry with that that's not a thing that exists you don't have some union spaces that are going to pay us out so yeah it's yeah it's it says if you're always anybody else is going to go out there and look for a property there's nothing special about me in that sense I'm I'm learning as you learn I think it's I'm doubling is a lot more while averse in this space so I think people can get a sense that I'm still like navigating this maze and finding how am I going to do this but I think it's encouraging because as we keep saying if I can do it you have a link into it um definitely you can do it because when it comes to finance and it comes to the banks and it comes to getting a loan that's when we're all equal we all go through the motions and sometimes you get the years and sometimes you don't know but it's the course that can truly um give you the solutions you know to navigate us. Hello everybody and welcome back to the 50-day property challenge brought to you by the Enterprise Development Property Fund and the EDBF Property Academy and Private Property. Today we have with us only Jared Ricketts because uh the both he and and doubling Matt are extremely busy right now things are happening we'll hear all about that from Jared now but I thought today we will just catch up with Jared and maybe tomorrow we'll catch up with Matt how so that we can see where she's at so Jared tell us what's been going on in your life tell us about your busyness I know you're extremely busy right now I see on Facebook and Twitter and all over you're you it's all happening for you right now what's your thought my friend? You know busy is usually a very loose term that we use but um this time it's proven to be fact you know um now that the pandemic has sort of subsided for a bit and it's business as usual and so for the entertainment industry it's been this boost of now people doing more shows I've been booked more for for shows and interviews it's been a manic schedule I mean even right now I'm jumping between various meetings that I need to have but it's been very good I'm just having had a lot of time to focus on the things that I wanted to focus on I mean we spoke about this 50 day challenge that we're doing and it's been tough you know squeezing at the time because there's just so much to learn I mean me I was completely green I mean I'm wearing green I was completely green to the whole concept of building a portfolio and it was just so much that I needed to take into consideration and um you know you take it lightly oh it's purchasing a property but there's so many factors that one has to consider you know when defining the kind of portfolio that you want and how you want it to grow and how you want that money to sort of uh the return on investment to happen for you and so I mean between everybody that we've got to meet through this program um and writing down as much as I could and and learning as much as I could it's been quite enriching I mean I feel empowered to have this knowledge and so um it's been a wonderful process there are times where it was really stressful because between work scouting for properties um trying to get the best deal it just really felt like I was cramming so much um into the short period of time but nevertheless um it's a 50 day challenge and yes we've managed to to do what we need to do and I'm quite excited awesome okay so from a perspective of the understanding and the learning you've got to a point where you've now learned enough to actually go out there and look for property and find the right property so um I understand that you have now made a final decision the last time you spoke you had narrowed it down to two properties and there was just one particular property basically that you had said this is probably the one that you're gonna go for what is right because now have you made the offer have you raised the money what's going on yeah so I'm very excited to say that um I've made the offer and between my wife and I we had the funds yay through saving I can't believe I'm actually saying that on the on the program because 50 days sounded a little bit unattainable but um between my wife you managed to to source the funds we were out buying like a small fraction and so we leaned into what we learned around um other people's money and so we we have a few friends that were able to just make up that small fraction and so through rental we'll be able to give them their money back and um have the properties so we find and it's happened so very excited yes that is absolutely amazing you know we normally ring the bell when uh when we do something exciting at the edbf academy unfortunately I I didn't realize that you were you had already purchased your first property so I didn't bring the bell with me but the next time okay then I will definitely bring the bell so I can bring it I'm so very very proud of you Janet I'm so very happy for you that you've put in that first offer you've got the money available and now literally basically but all you're waiting for now is transfer correct we're just waiting for everything and um it's so scary it's so new it's exciting but I'm glad that uh I've started or we've started my wife and I and so we're looking forward to seeing how this journey unfolds you know I think I think for anybody watching I just want to reiterate that it's it's obviously not easy there's a lot that you have to take into consideration but I'm definitely possible and um I just want to say again I'm just like everybody else out there who has to look at the funds and see what's possible and so um I'm just happy that I got to this point you know when you when I see like am I actually doing this is this real um to the point where the offer was accepted and now we're just waiting for everything else to happen and it's it's quite cool it's really cool wow hello everybody and welcome back to the 50 day challenge brought to you by the edpf property academy and private property again today we have Jared Ricketts in the room as always this last couple of days it's been so hectic that we are only able to meet with Jared and entabling separately but let's use this time to just catch up with Jared and see if he's got any news for us on the transfer front if you remember in the first half of the first video challenge he already found a property and because he was able to raise the capital he was able to make a cash offer and which he then did and we were just waiting for transfer so the last time we spoke we said that it was nearly time and this was a quick one specifically because of the fact that he had the cash available and he didn't have to go and raise a bond so let's just quickly catch up with Jared Jared tell us where you at with this property that you bought have you taken transfer yet so very excited it's been an awesome journey and transfer is now complete hey it's I'm very excited yeah listen I call okay okay hold on you remember that when we spoke last before the in the first half I said we're meeting the bell I brought the bell this time wow thank you well done Jared we are so excited that is amazing thank you listen this has been a really cool I mean to go through the process especially after with Mo Deval chatting to us around the process definitely some of the information surfaced while I was in the process and so I'm very excited and and they're happy to see that it's not a the scary thing that's not attainable or accessible and so it's happened and and I'm the dental opportunity that I now have is is is quite an incentive now so I'm looking forward to marketing the space and and getting some foot flow and generating some capital you know as this oh so yeah wow listen for me this is amazing not only the fact that within the 50 days we were able to do this but that took that the process was so quick because normally the process I mean your transfer can take anywhere from two to six weeks sometimes just depending on on which which deeds office you're going to and and how busy they are during COVID it was even worse but the fact that you were able to do the deal quickly that you had the cash available that you didn't have to worry about a bond and that the transfer took two weeks as opposed to up to six weeks sometimes I mean this is just absolutely amazing I I I thought that maybe at the end of the 50 day challenge we eventually get it but the fact that you took transfer is just absolutely amazing and I'm so very excited for you and the fact that you you have so so many other opportunities now I mean when we spoke the last time you said that you because you've now gone through the first one that sort of scary process that thought process is no longer there tell us a little bit about that tell us how you know how you're feeling about that now and how you're feeling about the next phase of your investment portfolio so Nigel listen I saw quite an unreal feeling I have to say because I couldn't really see myself doing this oh in the beginning it was very scary and it sounds like something that's completely unattainable and because something so long I just felt unreal as this process started unraveling it felt like this pipe dream you know and now that the process has gone full swing and I've now getting the property and I can rent it out it and it's my first property it's really cool to see how easy it is of course every situation will be unique depending on the kind of investment that you make so what's gone smoothly now might not go smoothly next time I completely understand that but it's just really cool that it is as once it's simple but as accessible of an opportunity you know and that that so many can do this and that the shifting and I'm now part of that landscape that's shifting and for importing being a coloured male or male of colour that are now form part of a percentage of a demographic that's that's now counted for and seen as changing the landscape so I'm really excited that yeah yeah I can't stop being amazed I literally got goosebumps the fact that we are now at this point so Jared you know what there's nothing more to talk about here because you know you've now done exactly what it is we wanted you to do in the first day challenge we are excited to welcome you to the family of property investors within the edbf program and we as edbf and I'm sure private property are so happy to have been part of this journey thus far but what's even better is that this is just the start of your journey because you're still with us for just under three years where through this program we're going to help you to buy that second one which we've already started to talk about you've got this opportunity we we just need to make sure that we help you to raise that capital and then once you've bought your second property we can then go back to the banks to be able to raise capital using things like the future income products and so on in order to raise the capital for those future property investments so we are there we are at that point that we wanted to be at after the 50 days we still have a couple more days to go so hopefully between now and the end of the 50 day challenge we can get you to that point where you signed it on the dotted line for that second property you obviously won't be able to take transfer in the short period of time for that second property but if we can at least get you to that point where you've made the offer you've raised the capital and then we hopefully just be waiting for transfer that would be an awesome achievement because then we still have almost the full three years to get you to a much higher level from a property perspective investment perspective basis so Jared thank you thank you so much thank you so much for being part of this journey and we look forward to finishing off the 50 day challenge with you and hopefully we'll get to that point of your of your second property thank you to the public out there for continuing to watch us diligently and we're hoping that you also have started your journey in purchasing your first property within this 50 day challenge so from the EDPF property academy from private property and Jared thank you for joining us and we'll see you again tomorrow.


Fantastic to be here. I'm really privileged to share these talks with you because it feels quite special, you know I think everybody understands that something is sort of happening. We just need to move it along a little bit faster But I just wanted to check one thing. How many of you?   Well, there is future so there's a chance right could you take your phone and swap it with your neighbor and Let them have a good roam around it Just So so this this So this is see how difficult it is this are such intimate little objects That we not prepared to share them with just about anybody But we share them with about million people in UK who have high vetted surveillance clearance To have a good look at everything that's on it. Well, but they're looking at what you do on your smartphone So what's on the data the data that you look last thing before you go to bed? The email you check first thing in the morning. You're sharing that activity of quite a lot of people So today, we just wanted to have a quick quick look to see how we can unfuck what happened over the last few years So when we started in 1994 Internet was incredibly innocent little creature. We were terribly keen on Sharing connecting and bringing the goodness to the world Many because I was teaching nurses computing and One thing I realized that the best way to teach that is to bring people together to share it in the same space So not giving them exercise to go home But bring them together and I somehow discovered that by bringing them together and putting bunch of computers around It's really kind of created spirit of the group and people were able to crack even the worst statistics a math lab So we put it out on the high on the high street because we created situation where everybody could learn Connected to the internet and this were the first things we had so you Dora mosaic FTP and a very very Cranky slow connection from easy net And you know when I look at it, what do we do today? We still do it We just iterate it's a little bit more on the topics, but they're still the same functionalities So essentially nothing has changed. It just got a fraction Easier and a fraction faster not quite fast enough as some people in Hebden bridge. I think noticed but the fiber is coming apparently But what has changed since then it's a lot of other things happened I've done a lot of crypto work and I was behind a team that introduced SSL in 1996 to the shops mainly because it was possible to buy stuff with credit cards Well before it wasn't or you could buy you'd be really crazy to do it So I moved after Siberia Developing the whole cyber cafe concept. I moved to top shop worked with Philip green is somehow persuaded them that SSL Was strong enough to let the crowds on it little did I know that you know, SSL was a big ward I was just about to happen, but we did it and Some things developed fairly slowly and in a trusted way ie We thought that we were developing things not knowing what was going on behind the scenes And the first sort of big war that I got involved with was the cookie wars Because as you remember the cookies were necessary for commerce. They hold the sessions So they allow you to actually create the transaction But what they also allowed is the advertising crowd showed up Before there was not quite enough people to do advertising online, but about 9697 there was enough and All the advertising industry woke up saying ah ha, this is people who we can sell stuff too And they decided to create bad cookies So the cookies that we still pestered by today who remember your data who know exactly what you do Who will keep track of you in a way that you probably wouldn't want to We lost that war that was the first time that The advert the commercial word won against the engineers because till then The internet was run by engineers and whatever they said went But that was challenged and actually for the ones who remember it was mark under scene who was in the Bed camp so when he said that suddenly emerged from Using open source and being the good guy and shifting towards supporting supporting the advertising industry We thought okay knives out the gloves off. This is war and this was war that we kind of fought and lost till about 2004 when Google decided to Create a business model on reading your email and Today we accept it, but then it was so incredibly shocking that The idea of a business opening your email opening the most intimate of your communications and somehow making money out of it It was just unthinkable They knew it was unthinkable. So Eric Schmidt kept saying oh well, you know, we get up to creepy But we don't quite cross the line and for well creepy depends on who definition of creepy because for us It was pretty bad, but again the commercial words won carried on and We just kept feeding it more and more because if you look at the average Facebook photo I love the Facebook photos with the feet people always think well I won't take a selfie because that's a bit too vain But I'll put my feet there and they feed that that somehow gets them out of bank Tracked by data and when you look at it's an image recognition It's very easy to define if the feet are of a male or female and if it's young or old So you can generate quite a lot of information from a little to feet You can also generate a lot of more information. Where have you been? How much did you spend? How much money do you make?  Meanwhile, everybody will be like hundreds of skookies and Advertising people just checking Registering and creating your lovely little stream of data behind you and we didn't really ask for it We didn't particularly create a business system base business model based on advertising But it is the easiest model there and we have to recognize that because it does pay for a lot of good stuff But if you look how invasive it is that this is just the top of the iceberg There's probably 170 data points that you can derive from fairly average picture and The amount of time we spent online It's it's just growing up and up and up So at the moment we having well particularly the kids spent additional five hours per day on the phone. What were they doing before? It's kind of difficult to understand until you realize it's all multitasking. So this is not new time This is the time that they do something else or we do something else So we walk on the street and for 20 minutes between your work and your bus stop you are on the phone Before you were just walking. So so a little bit step by step We're not just doing one thing, but we definitely tend towards doing two or three things at the same time one of them involving a phone So the average time on the phone at the moment for the teenagers is almost longer than this. I think it's more than they sleep I think the numbers are it's more than they sleep And I wonder how many of us can actually look at the number of hours spent on the phone And is it close to how much we sweep I bet it's coming there So one thing which we kind of miss like how is the whole Growth of how of cloud computing When we had little sloppy disks You couldn't really put that much on it. So if you wanted to spy on somebody It wouldn't be terribly satisfactory because the amount of data wouldn't be really sufficient to do anything with plus it wasn't accessible Now we're going to the cloud. It's Infinite what can be stored and it's terribly accessible Even if you follow all the procedures and try to make it secure Cloud essentially at the moment is not particularly secure. So the data just the floating up there So we have the massive increase of data self-input We just put the data in all the time all the stand hours per day just data goes in Social media selfies Gmail that's kept thread and also the drones which created additional data points You can see it more and more insured it people kind of trying to Investigate is there a queue in the nightclub before I actually bothered to go out? I think it's probably on the verge of illegal But you know people do it and also cash one thing we've noticed over the last two years the cash is going so mobile payments are partially part of it, but obviously cashless and When cash goes data of your payments become digital Truckable you can keep it you can analyze it. It's nice little pile of your daily information and The algorithms to interpret are getting smarter sharper and faster So the combination of increased storage Low very low cost of storage and the ability to process it just hand it over a massive advantage to spice So we make it Harder harder ourselves because even if you look at selfies they were better enough a selfies now people have selfie sticks So I work very close to Oxford Street And I tell you it's lethal to try to get through the tourists of doing that and that But it's now double the amount of people because the selfie stick allows you to take a picture of two people three people four people So yet more data coming in and more facial recognition to train the algorithm So the whole thing is just speeding up faster and faster But the users are not happy when you look at research. It was a big research by Annenberg Foundation about six months ago It's not that people accept it. They are resigned to accept it. They're saying well, we're not happy 91% of quite big study was definitely not happy that the personal data is being shared without the knowledge kept by Records and with unknown use or use that is commercial against them But what's happened is that they Think that there's no other choice that it is what it is and they made feel guilty about Out blockers which we discussed before but out blockers is another big topic So when you look at the value exchange what people questioned they're saying who gets my data. I don't know how much is it Worth to me. I don't know that either. Can I revoke my permissions? I don't know How do I allow permission based on time and place because sometimes it's okay to have my data, but Not the whole time and not when I'm not aware about it We don't really have that conversation with the advertising community at the moment They just take everything at any point all the time. We did quite a big project Which I wanted to quickly tell you Where we allowed people to share data within a specific time. So when girls go shopping Between 2 o'clock 5 o'clock on Saturday. It's okay. Have my data. I can tell you where I am location on Everything because I'm kind of expecting at that time. You will offer me Advertising deals and it's fine because I'm in a shopping mode, but at 5 o'clock. I'm I'm going to do something Yes, I don't want anybody to know anymore. So I switch my location off But that's not enough because there's still a lot of data flowing around So what we found that people are quite happy to do it if it's contextualized So if it's all from two or certain places, but not others But we haven't got the formula to Negotiate that with so our kind of current thinking is probably the Platform to own the data has to be the town. So have them bridge or York or Shortage or something that people actually have emotional attachment to that they think they belong to the tribe of that location Where the data is held by a portal that they can go back and negotiate with Few people are trying to do it But the attachment to the security is definitely at local level So when we did that research, it was in town. It was in North London So if it belongs if the data is hold and shared by local council, I can just about leave with it But any further no, so it would be interesting to see how our identities develop in terms of their local and There was further and how far the trust goes who you prepare to give the mobile phone to your mayor your Counselor anybody at the moment we haven't got that debate So we don't know the answer but our kind of pin in the map is that it's very local that people trust locally So at this stage we got together with Tim Berners-Lee Who is promoting something called digital Magna Carta and Tim had this idea straight after Snowden pretty much that something needs to be fixed and Promoted a concept of certain bill of rights for digital users worldwide and it's a very very interesting proposition but it's global and Low doesn't work globally low works locally So we got together with them and decided that let's just try to see if we can trial it out for UK So we've got a project called digital bill of rights UK which teams Foundation called web we want foundation supports And they have that foundation in a number of different countries. So the Italians just got it So Italian bill of rights has just been presented to the parliament Our problem is that UK is a very heavily surveyed country and everything that we put in the digital bill of rights The government is basically against so what Italy is seem to be accepting UK has got much longer time to investigate. So we took the digital bill of rights on the road Created kind of like a proper flip-chart and posted notes and consultations and a little bit of a Exchange what people think on the topic of your data is your data your data or it belongs to all the spooks is Copyrights something that we should be reforming Which in the context of 3d printing is becoming very important because you can't really 3d print Lego and not contravene Lego copyrights we looked at cybersecurity and reform of Surveillance because at the moment the surveillance in UK. It's by appointments by the prime minister and It tends to go to judges who are well over 70 year old last two appointments last week both new judges on the commissioner Circuit are 70. What do they understand the surveillance algorithm? I do not know, but I wouldn't hold my breath So the whole process of surveillance needs to be Reformed the oversight is at the moment under no Buddhist control So it's not a thrown it out to see what happens and one of the last thing Which we just added because we thought would be interesting to see to Write to digital education But not as impassive because the government talks a lot about digital education But all they want people to do is to be able to fill the form for unemployment benefits If you can't do digital form save government a lot of money you in but what we would like to see is to make sure that people actually have the tools to do digital work to Join the whole revolution and not to be just passive victims and that was probably one of the biggest points for people We got so many people saying other robots going to take my job away Without Nana. Don't worry. I just probably fine. So what do you do for a living? I'm a clerk. Okay. That's probably yes So we made a long list of jobs that at risk and it was a pretty long list I don't know if you've seen the new list which came out a thing from Oxford Internet Institute About all the jobs that are at risk because of automation so not so much physical robots that do things but robots as in algorithms and That list was incredibly long. So very very few things will be left once that Particular steam engine revolution goes through. So when we are here It's very interesting to see that, you know, obviously this area has been very affected by the first revolution in a good way And the second probably the worst way But the third one will affect everybody wherever you are. It doesn't matter where so the way the work of Algorithms is developing is basically a bunch of guys in hoods sitting in California remote controlling everybody and at the other end They just need a body on a geek economy 2 pounds 50 per hour enough because all the intelligence is in the algorithm and That has happened so quickly that we don't really know how to respond So pretty much everybody will be unnecessary Because the level of automation is pressing so fast that you only need tiny handful of people, you know, I go to offices.  He said this time start forward wife slightly big buildings with black mirrors outside And there's no one there's just hum of computers and the big data centers, which do all the work So the new world does not need people So the issue of the digital rights suddenly become quite Pressing so digital education as in we actually want to be the ones who are running it all Because there won't be that much space for people who are not on that particular bandwagon It's used to happen now. So when I listen to people like 3d printing guys, you know, they are absolutely on the right path But they are still slow. It's still too slow. It needs to happen a lot faster So meanwhile while we were trying to figure it all out and understand that actually what team has created the Client server architecture is wonderful, but it's a road to only one direction a centralization of everything in very view hands Because if you build systems for living like we do If you can have one database, you're not going to have to if you can have one of something You're not going to have to so centralization Plays to the hands of very small group of people. So centralization is power and it's it's we bought into Distributed networks and not distributed. They are centralized as anything. So it's a myth if anybody tells you about distributed network It's a myth Yes, you know, they carry in a in a networking quay You can bump one and the rest will pick it up, but it doesn't mean that the database is not centralized So we are entering in a completely different world where the number of people needed to do anything It's very little computers everything else and then we are the warm bodies at the end So it all kind of created very different situation that we had before before we just didn't trust the government I was fine, but now we can all treat trust anybody And I think the anybody started from Google Which has particularly kind of elastic ethics like whenever it suits them They were just push it up and push it down Apple is a little bit better because they have a better product which can finance itself without data But you know what when they run out of that they will be back with data. So it's just temporary So I wouldn't feel too good about them And then you have Edward who is sitting in Russia trying to kind of shovel everybody to understand a little bit What's going on and get some awareness of cities and rights Meanwhile government is calling the US government's calling him traitor Very difficult to get any conversation. We had a really great event last year with you and Vivian Westwood Who is about 72, but she really gets it. So she was interviewing Edward. One of the questions came up Do Americans understand human rights because they don't really have human rights. They have consumer rights So when you talk to American companies, it's all about consumer rights In which case it's a very different conversation that a conversation you have in UK So that's where we decided to push on with the digital bill of rights for UK and for Sweden and for Poland separately to really flush out how Far we can push back and how far we can buy a bit of time By circling some rights around us before the whole thing will be run by only one machine one guy supervising it and fantastic algorithms and I think people feel it because we've noticed a lot of Conversation on the internet are going into code. So people came up with this emoji stuff, which took on like wildfires So a friend of mine did the whole Casa Blanca in emojis So this is if you remember that what about Paris we've always had Paris and People started using it more and more. I think now the shift towards emoji is almost faster than using text So I think there is this sort of underlying suspicion that if I talk in emoji at least people can't really Understand what I'm doing and track me, which obviously is not true, but people feel it is so there is a group in Italy, which is working on trying to put a little bit of a stop on the process and Support people using social networks and loading the data into social networks as we seem to like doing But provides some element of encryption Where you can choose who you share with so if I want to share the data of my town because I might want to benefit from Collective data sharing then I can say yes the town is fine But I don't particularly want to share data with advertisers and I don't want to share data of another town because we are competing with this town so they're trying to work out a system that That combines the ability to use social media, but introduces layers of Sharing permissions which you can put on a revoke in a fluid way I'm very positive about it. So just to get a conversation more into what the digital bill of right could mean and what our Protection could mean if you look at the last 20 years Which for me were quite terrible because we started well, and then it came out a bit worse So what was supposed to be the beautiful community sharing?  I think it ended up being just the one massive Surveillance scheme. So when I hear the private equity and the data model database business plans It is more of the same and unfortunately I think it's just finished eating its own tail because I don't have seen yesterday. There was a release of a new Up called people with double E Don't know if you spotted it. It's coming. It's basically FIFA or Yelp for people. So if I met you today, I can go to this up and I say well Five out of ten on looks two out of ten on honesty Cooks well can run a party Seven But if you piece me off, I will put three or one So I suddenly gained the power over everybody else for the split second when I provide some absurd Subjective rating but it goes into the system. So there's a massive backlash against it And I hope to God that it won't happen. But you know, this is the reputation management Getting to the end of itself because we did very well on reputation management with Uber Airbnb the sharing economy, but I think when it comes to rating people It's probably too far.  So so I'm very positive about it at the moment because I've seen this after This is crazy. This is not gonna happen. But you know, you never know so my last 20 years, I think the positives are The real unicorns are all about trust in a good way where we trust in a positive way Wikipedia nobody thought anything will come out of it and I know people have views On Wikipedia, but you know, it's there Amazingly is there and amazingly is getting better. We do a lot of work on wiki data Which I think is a total miracle because you can recreate pages in new language Without having to rewrite the bloody thing from the beginning. So it is pretty amazing And you know, this is just people sitting there doing a little bit here a little bit there packing it in and one day You wake up and it's massive Nobody gets paid It's really totally voluntary for a very tiny team in California, but tiny and it happened So that gives me hope that the next 20 years can happen again and few of those will Show up for open data Mozilla movement. You know, there is enough building blocks. We can take it over I'm not quite sure how fast but Wikipedia took long long time It was really a very very very slow process But when it's achieved its sort of peak point now is developing very fast even in Places, you know where people are not particularly computer literate There's always a handful of people who can shovel stuff in and help others We were in Athens last week and the the Greek Wikipedia is incredible It was basically holding the data and information when the newspapers were Manipulating in right and left and middle. It was down to Wikipedia to provide data So that is kind of over and above the the old press. I think it might happen and blockchain Again, it was sort of quietly bubbling along But it is getting bigger and bigger and I think it could help us to create the situation where we don't need banks If I can be my own verifier because I own my own data Why would I need not west if I own my identity? Why would I need Lloyds? We can do deals between each other So that's quite big threat for the financial community. I'm not quite sure they understand it But they're trying to buy into it just in case But I think it's developing as an alternative You need the technical people to be the missionaries there is no other way You know the technology will save the world before it kills it because there is nobody else You know in the olden days people were help helping that unions will save the word or something will save the world But that kind of didn't work out So it has to be technology and prototyping different ways But it's got to be the communication between the technical community in the local setting and that is not very good at that We have to learn to do that better


We're going to be talking about, like the slide says, platforms, cloud-native platforms, a really hot topic. Most people here, you've probably heard the past year, a couple years, platforms, platform engineering. People have been talking about a lot. The benefits it can bring, the efficiency it can bring to cloud-native development. I'm just wondering, OpenShift is a, you know, this is OpenShift Commons. OpenShift is a pretty good basis for a platform. How many people here, let's just use the word platform, identify as a platform engineer, or part of a platform team, by a show of hands. Nice, nice, pretty cool. Yeah, we're kind of interested in, yeah, the uptake of this. So in the interest, you know, we know this is an emerging trend, so we've gathered the four excellent folks here, which I'll introduce in a minute, to talk about some of the, you know, the what and why of these platforms. So we'll start, I want to introduce the CNCF work that's been happening around this. The picture, by the way, is meant, I love in the platform space the idea that you stand on the shoulders of giants, you start, you know, there's some common substrate that can let everyone get higher together, so these folks here are balancing on the top of the platform. Yeah, so CNCF, the cloud-native computing foundation, you know, we recognize this trend also, this need to deliver infrastructures, actually how it first came to us in CNCF a couple years ago. We formed a, I'm a lead in tag app delivery, where we work on all kinds of application delivery on Kubernetes, like the stuff that, where we actually get the products and applications onto the platform running for our customers. And we realize that we need to coordinate infrastructure concerns with application concerns. You know, you maybe can deploy out your clusters and your databases and your queues and all things like that, and then you put your app on top of them, but how do you make sure that you have the components ready, the infrastructure ready for your application. So we formed a group a couple years ago, cooperative delivery, about a year ago we realized that the platforms movement was the flip side of the cooperative delivery idea. The platforms are a solution to achieving that cooperative delivery that we're seeking. So we recognize that we're like, the best thing to do is to guide folks, if this is really going to enable cooperative delivery of infrastructure and apps, let's help folks understand what it is, let's try to set some common terminology, common ideas. So for the past six months, since KubeCon Detroit we've been working together. That's how I've met all these wonderful folks. We've been writing a paper, guiding kind of strategically what our platforms and why are they going to help you be more efficient in your cloud-native architectures. So check out the paper. We right now want to gather more user experiences. This is a great place to ask you all. Come join us in Slack, join our meetings. We're going to run a survey. We don't have that ready quite yet to seek interviewees. But we want to learn more so we can support you better, support end users, because that's one of the main goals of the tag is to enable cloud users to be successful. So come and join us. We're also looking to expand on some of the stuff that's in that initial paper. Go a level deeper in. Okay, I don't want to spend too much time on that. So let's just introduce our good folks here. I already said who I am. I'm Ivan Malid in Tag App Delivery, a cloud architect at Red Hat. We have Abby Bangzer from Sintasso, principal engineer, building platforms. She works on the Craddix project. Raffaele Spazzoli, a customer architect from Red Hat. He's helping customers build platforms and portals every day. Thomas Vitale, platform engineer actually was systematic and a well-known author. Read some of his spring boot books. And of course Andy Block, our distinguished architect from Red Hat who works with our customers all the time on these things. All right, so let's jump in. We're going to go around. I'm going to ask each of you a question and you could start, but everybody can chime in. We've got one mic here. And if there's time at the end, I don't see, oh, 12, 11, then maybe we could take some questions from the audience too. So be thinking if you have questions around platforms and how they fit. All right, so if you don't mind, Thomas, I'm going to start with you. So in this, in cloud computing, this context of cloud computing, what do we mean by platform? What exactly is a platform? Can you help us level set here? Yeah, platforms can be defined in many different ways. When we talk about platforms in this context, we're talking about engineering platforms. So platforms that can support engineering teams in their job, in delivering their job faster, in a more secure and safe way. And in particular, we can distinguish platforms based on who are the customers or the users of these platforms. And in our paper, we focused on internal platforms. We call them internal because the users of the platform are internally within the organization that is building the platform. So developers come to mind. So we hear a lot talking about developer platforms. But yeah, I don't like the definition because I think it's more than developers that will be using the platforms. We have other roles, other personas in an engineering team, like testers, like product owners that want to deploy an environment to show new features to a customer. But we also have other typologies other than application development. For example, machine learning. We have other companies that can use an engineering platform. We can support them in their job. And why platforms have come up in the past couple of years, but why not 15 years ago? What's changed recently? Yeah, it's not a new concept, the platforms, but I think it's becoming more and more relevant nowadays the way that we implement such a platform. So the architecture, like the cloud-native architecture of platforms is one of the main differentiators compared to the past. So we learned to embrace the cloud computing model to support all these new services, new infrastructure. Yeah, that makes sense now with more of the platform side. Yeah, Raph. Can you hear me? Yeah, one more thing that I think is changing right now with regard to platforms is that instead of just a bunch of tools, we're now trying to provide a cohesive experience. So the platform team is in charge of designing this experience for the developers or whoever the user is, such that it's very smooth and cohesive across all of the tools. And, you know, we see platforms that are constituted by, comprised by maybe 20, 25 tools. So you need a way to navigate all of these tools in a very consistent manner. You might have got more than maybe 10 or 15 years ago you might have had. Somebody had a... There was a graph earlier today. Somebody brought up a Mr. Potato Head and they put in all... And it's like your platform comes out with a proper-looking Mr. Potato Head. Exactly, not like some sort of mutant. Cool. So if a platform is, you know, it brings together those pieces and makes cloud-native development easier. What... How does this influence the... How does this... How does this valuable to our businesses? I mean, is it just developers? Does it help with the overall motion of the business? Like, why is this valuable now? Yeah, I think we've touched on a bit of it. It can help to streamline common activities across the organization. And that means we can standardize them in a way that is not just pure friction to our engineers or to our teams, right? So you're talking about security or performance or user experience, design, things like that. So a lot of people may have used kind of design frameworks before where you can go and get what a button looks like at your organization. This is just kind of taking that to the next level and saying what does an entire application look like at your organization? What does a CI CD pipeline need to entail and need to include? And so, yeah, you get that standardization without friction, ideally. Some consistency and stuff.  And now we're kind of taking that responsibility away or how does that fit together? I'd argue we keep that. So I think this is platforms can sometimes revolutionize the way organizations operate, but I actually think the concept is very evolutionary. It's not a big shift from where we've been because what we got with DevOps was this idea of you build it, you run it. The people who are building software are the best suited people to maintain and operate that with the users. And they also can have the most efficiency if they're unblocked by other teams. And we're maintaining that. We're just using our domain expertise and awareness to now craft a domain internal to the business. So just like we would have domains like a search domain or a shopping domain or different business domains that our end user facing, we now realize that there are domains internally that we can provide as a service internally. And we need to build and maintain and operate those offerings. Okay, okay. Yeah, that makes sense. And what about like, and everybody can chime in from the business perspective, does this ultimately help our businesses? Like is this just for developers that makes their lives easier? They can deliver software faster. Make some money. Yeah, at the end of the day it's efficient. The business wants to make money. No matter what, they may go ahead and juror code a lot of different things. They want to make money. And a platform can help your developers get up to speed faster, help your business make money faster because you're delivering software, and your customers end up paying more, which brings that money in. It supports all of us platform engine. Uh-huh. All right, let's, so having said a little bit about the what and why, I want to shift a little into what platforms are made of. And Ralph, I'm going to start with you on the RFA. I'll start with you on this one because I know you've been working with a lot of our customers to build platforms, but also we're hearing a lot about portals. If, actually I'm curious, who here is thinking about some sort of backstage-based portal for their platform? Okay, I was, I was actually sort of maybe a few more. I hear from customers it feels like every day about backstage and I'm trying to figure out what, one minute? Ralph, go. Tell us the portals and platforms with together. There's been a little bit of overlap between portals and platforms, right? Unfortunately, they both started with a P. So IDP can mean internal developer platform or internal developer portal. We mean platform here. And the platform is what we have described. So this set of capabilities that you build, you make available, self-serviceable, you maintain them. And the idea is, it's freedom with guardrails, right? And you may have a lot of these capabilities. Now you may need a way, a UI, a centralized UI for the developer to come and consume those capabilities. So that's your portal, right? It's a way to see what exists and operate on what exists, right? And backstage can be a good portal. I don't think it's the only option, but backstage can be a good portal for your platform. But remember, just setting up the portal doesn't give you the platform. You first have to build a platform which is all these capabilities. Then you can build a portal in front of it. It's sort of, I like to depict it as the tip of the iceberg. There is a lot of stuff that is below the water. The developers don't need to see, but it's still there. Yeah, that's, I mean, I could dig in with you for that for a while. But we better keep going. The last, yeah, well, the very last question that we can end on this is if, what are some, in each of you, we can start with Andy, what are some of the capabilities, components, attributes that you would recommend in a platform? Number one, when it comes to attributes, you mentioned your paper from earlier. There's some good recommendations in there. Make sure it's documentable. Make sure it's secure. Make sure it's flexible. Flexible is very important because, as I saw, I'm working with a lot of customers. They build these, you must, thou shall go through this pipeline and nothing can change. That doesn't scale, period. It will break. And if you're running through that right now, you say it works fine. You just started your journey and it's going to fail eventually. Number two, when you talk about capabilities, it's got to connect to your different systems, your SCM systems, your pipelines. And then it needs to connect to authorization systems. Make sure that you use the same auth that you use in other parts of your business within your platform because you don't want to have a bespoke platform team or a portal that is to be able to be totally separate from the rest of your commitment in your organization. Is that fast enough? Yeah, so any last comments? One. You want to do it? No, please. Yeah, one thing, a little suggestion if you're starting this journey with a team, building a platform team, a problem that I see often is that they do a very good job at automating the things that they control and then when they have to integrate, let's say with the DNS, that's another team or certificate, that's another team or the load balancers, the firewall, the pipeline, every time they have to cross the team boundary, if the other team is not able to provide services the way the platform needs them so to provide that consistent experience, then those teams tend to compromise and say, okay, for this one, you will open a ticket. Do not compromise there. You have to find a way to fight that battle and your mission is to provide that consistent experience so every time you publish a new capability it needs to be consistent with the rest, possibly self-serviced. Nice, yeah, hang in there, be persistent. Abby, do you want to throw something in? I was just going to say, talking to attributes, the kind of debugability and observability of it is really important because that's how you can also build trust with users. So if you think about your use of a platform being AWS, Google, Red Hat OpenShift, all these as-of-service cloud providers, you don't ever point the finger at them when something's broken. You're sort of like, it's probably my app, until the very last minute and you understand that matrix of responsibility of what is owned by which party. By you is the deployer of an app or by them as the maintainer of the infrastructure. As a platform team, you're needing to provide that same level of service and that same level of confidence in the responsibility matrix. So be able to debug your problems so that when people come knocking, you can explain to them how it's working or how it's not and what you're going to do about it. Thank you. Thomas, I want to give you a chance to, just in case. Yeah, maybe two quick pieces of advice. I think if you're building platforms, one is always talk to your users because it's very easy to assume that developers, for example, might want or need, but it's really, really important to talk with users first and establish requirements before implementing anything. And then the second thing is the cloud-native community is amazing. Let's use the community. Let's be part of the community because a lot of people have the same issues and challenges and actually working at the White Paper, I had the chance to meet with amazing people. I learned a lot coming from different backgrounds, different companies, so it's really great to be part of the community, maybe contributing to those projects that we use and embed in our platform and help those projects grow. I think that's a very important part for me. We're just starting our journey. So we need your help to help build that journey and have it evolve. Otherwise, we're not going to evolve forward. So please, as everyone said here, please help out in the community, bring your insights from your organization because everyone works differently. Let's come together and let's work together to build solutions. Yep, and that's a perfect transition to the final slide here. We definitely could use any help you can give. I know we're all very busy, but we'd love to hear your platform story. Come join us in the... And you could find all of these great folks downstairs now at lunch. Everybody should take the stairs downstairs and go to lunch. At the Project Pavilion, me, Abby, and all these other folks will be around over there. If you want to get deeper with the Working Group, we are trying to build some prototypes of CNCF-based platforms, and we're trying to go a level deeper into the different capabilities and find synergies amongst the CNCF projects. So if you're passionate about that, come help us.