Welcome to another edition of This Week in Civil Engineering, also known as TWICE, a weekly news show focused on providing civil engineering professionals with the most important and relevant industry updates. I'm your host for this episode, Kamini Fenley. I'm a practicing civil engineer and I work on land development projects all throughout New York City. You can find all of the episodes to This Week in Civil Engineering at TWICE.News. That's TWICE, TWICE.News. References to all the news stories will be covered in the episode show notes, and if you're watching on YouTube, be sure to subscribe to the engineering news playlist so you can receive notifications for all the weekly episodes. Now it's time to find out what's happening this week in Civil Engineering. Now it's time for This Week's News. You're about to hear excerpts from the stories referenced. Links to all of the full articles can be found at TWICE.News. First, let's cover the biggest breaking stories from this past week that might affect civil engineering companies and professionals alike. Center technology aims to help U.S. cities extend the life of aging pipelines from Jerome Lynch at the Michigan Engineer News Center. University of Michigan researchers are collaborating with the Great Lakes Water Authority and engineering firm Structural Technologies on a pilot project in the motor city that harnesses the power of smart infrastructure centers and innovating lighting technologies. That combination could bolster the structural integrity of water pipelines and alert the utility ahead of line ruptures that can leave residents without service and cost municipalities millions. In early August, Great Lakes Water Authority's crews installed a liner inside the block-long section of pipeline a few miles east of Detroit's main downtown area. Created by Structural Technologies, the liner is made of both steel reinforced polymer and mortar composites, adding additional structural capacity to the increasing pipeline durability. In June of 2019, the Detroit officials announced a five-year, $500 million replacement project for water and sewer pipes throughout the city. It represents the first major upgrade to the system in roughly 90 years. Line replacement is a daunting task for any city for a host of reasons, from service interruptions to traffic foul-ups caused by work along busy streets. Addressing large sections of a municipal system in a short period of time is financially impossible for most cities. That means identifying problem areas is key to infrastructure replacement moving forward. It's really great to hear about different ways technology can be used to assist civil engineers in maintaining and improving our infrastructure. Next up, let's look at an interesting story from China. 7,600-ton building walks to its new location from Jeff Parsons Metro.co.uk. Engineers in China have come up with a remarkable way of moving an 85-year-old building. Rather than demolish and rebuild the structure, they attached it to 198 robotic legs and walked it to its new destination. The entire 7,600-ton structure took 18 days to move itself, 62 meters to its new location in Shanghai. The building, Lagana Primary School, needed to be moved to make way for a new commercial center. Meanwhile, the school will be transformed into a cultural education and heritage center at its new location. What makes the engineering fee all more impressive is that the building isn't just a typical square block. The five-story construction has an awkward shape that the technology had to deal with. This is a very, very impressive feat, and looking at the photos, it really shows the magnitude of this project. Congratulations to the team that accomplished it. Next up, US News and Civil Engineering will head over to the West Coast. Southern California to Vegas high-speed rail project hits the brakes as financing falters from Doug Pupil at enr.com. Plans to build a high-speed electric train between Los Angeles and Las Vegas have been sidetracked over the investor's inability to finance the project. Fortress Investment Group announced on October 30 that it has postponed its planned $8 billion Brightline West project, which was expected to start construction this quarter. Fortress and its subsidiary Brightline Holdings has been marketing $3.2 billion in tax-free private activity bonds authorized by officials in California and Nevada. The amount investors sought was reduced to $2.4 billion in recent weeks, but was still met with skeptical response in the bond market. Market conditions, particularly driven by the pandemic and the election, caused the postponement. The Florida-based company has recently launched a website that includes engineering and construction information about the Brightline West project. Groundbreaking has been scheduled for late this year on what's being called the High Desert segment, a 190-mile stretch from Victorville, California to a proposed station south of the Las Vegas Strip. The planned route follows right away along Interstate 15, which links Las Vegas to its biggest tourism market, Southern California. The train will run through the I-15 median at some points alongside the highway in other areas. Completion of the entire project has been set up for 2024. Brightline says its train, which can operate at speeds up to 200 miles an hour, will cut the normal six-hour drive between Los Angeles and Las Vegas. You wonder if the postponement of this project is yet another effect of the COVID pandemic and what other potential project postponements might continue to happen in the future? Definitely something for civil engineering firms to keep an eye on. Next up, Georgia Port Authority proposes inland port box expansion from Mark Solomon at FrightWaves.com. The Georgia Port Authority, GPA, plans to add 22% of container storage capacity at its inland distribution terminal in the northwest Georgia town of Chatsworth, as it gears up for an expected increase of export traffic from Chatsworth to the docks at Savannah. The proposed $450,000 initiative, which will be voted on by the Georgia Port Authority Board on its November meeting, will add 13 stacks of 20-foot equivalent units TEUs, containers, to the Appalachian region of Port 60's stack of box currently in its inventory. The objective is to ensure that companies using the ARP to ship goods by rail from Chatsworth to Savannah have the box to capacity to do so. Open in August 2018, the inland port is designed to expedite the flow of goods between the state's northwest quadrant and Savannah without the need to truck freight through, among other places, Metro Atlanta. The facility was designed to expand export markets for companies in Georgia and neighboring states, as well as to facilitate the flow of sea freight imports that clear Savannah and are bound for inland U.S. markets. Chatsworth is GPA's first inland port model, but it won't be the last. The Port Authority will apply for federal government grants, sometimes this spring, to construct a similar facility in northeast Georgia. It sounds like there will be a good amount of civil engineering work done in Georgia in the coming years. And now I've got some career inspiration for you. And now for a little bit of career advice. I've been thinking about working from home in a bit of a more permanent manner. There's no doubt that virtual work will continue in either hybrid or pure models across the industry. I encourage you all to take trainings and truly embrace collaborative technologies such as Microsoft Teams. Not only will these programs help you solidify your workflow, but also keep you in contact with your project team members. These daily communications are vital not only to help you with your organization, but also for your sanity.  Now let's move on to some international news and civil engineering from the past week. First, we're going to head over to Europe. CMEX goes global with carbon neutral concrete from Craig Bettenhausen at cn.acs.org. When it comes to construction, concrete is king, but making it releases a lot of carbon dioxide, around 8% of global emissions. Demand for global carbon emissions is creating a market for concrete with smaller carbon footprints. The concrete maker CMEX is addressing that trend with what is said to be the first net zero CO2 or carbon dioxide concrete to become available worldwide. Concrete packs a double wallop of CO2. Manufacturers first have to fuel to heat limestone to 1300 degrees Celsius and then the conversion of CaCO3 or calcium carbonate to CaO, calcium oxide releases CO2 as a byproduct, explains Steven J. Davis, a professor of earth system science at the University of California, Irvine. They further heat the calcium oxide to 1450 degrees Celsius to center it with other components such as gypsum to form clinker, the cement that binds standard concrete together. CMEX's Virtua Ultra replaces limestone based clinker with an alkali activated alumina silicate polymer matrix. Preparation of the binder does not require high temperatures and does not release carbon dioxide, dropping its carbon footprint by 70% compared to standard concrete. CMEX buys carbon offsets to make the concrete 100% carbon neutral. This sounds like a potentially very very positive development in the world of concrete. EMI is currently seeking a CMEX representative to explain this new product on an episode of the Structural Engineering Channel which can be found at structuralengineeringchannel.com. Next up let's head down under to Australia. Costs blowout on the Wangela Dam project doubles public bill to almost $1.5 billion before a new South Wales scheme approved from Ann Davis at TheGuardian.com. The cost of raising the wall at the Wangela Dam, the centerpiece of the federal and New South Wales government's water infrastructure plans, has blown out from $650 million to nearly $1.5 billion before the project has even been granted approval. Guardian Australia has been told by multiple sources that the cost of the project to raise the dam wall at the junction of the Lackland and Ibrocrombie rivers, 48 kilometers from the Kaurah in New South Wales, has doubled due to part to the huge amount of environmental offsets that will be needed to compensate for the impact of the scheme. The Wangela project and two others, Dungo and Dam near Tamworth and Mole Creek Dam, were first announced by the Prime Minister New South Wales Premier in October 2019 at the height of the drought when there were fears that some towns could possibly run out of water. They are now being fast-tracked through the New South Wales planning process as state significant infrastructure. The federal government doubled its contribution in September 2020 budget to $325 million towards Wangela and a further $242 million towards Dungo and Dam despite the lack of any project assessments. It has also converted the funds from a loan to a grant for New South Wales. The project will double the dam's capacity by adding 650 gallons but will in none day a large area of valuable farmland and destroy critically endangered ecological communities as well as having major downstream impacts on six important wetlands which are habitats for native and migratory birds. This story certainly showcases some of the challenges in planning and budgeting for mega projects as well as the considerations for environmental impacts. On that note, let's cover a few infrastructure-related stories starting with some general news about infrastructure projects. Utah Department of Transportation putting final touches on I-15 tech corridor completing 10-year expansion project from Jason Lee at Deseret.com. The Utah Department of Transportation Friday announced the completion of the I-15 technology corridor project which expanded the freeway from four to six lanes in both directions between Lehigh Main Street and State Route 92. The milestone marked the final phase in reconstructing I-15 in northern Utah County over the past decade that increased vehicle capacity on the roadway from Bangor to Hwy to Spanish Fork. At the cost of $415 million, this most recent project includes the state's first one-way frontage system allowing two redesigned interchanges and new trails for pedestrians and cyclists. Started in May of 2018, the I-15 technology corridor is considered the final piece of reconstructing the freeway in northern Utah County along with the I-15 poor project, the Point Project and Access Utah County project, all completed since 2010 at the cost of just over $2.1 billion. The additional lanes on I-15 are designed to keep traffic in heavily traveled areas moving and improve quality of life for residents and commuters, said Utah Department of Transportation spokesman John Gleason. Travel times from the point of the mountain to Lehigh Main Street in the afternoon commute will be reduced up to 50% he added, which will benefit the growing number of vehicles that drive in and around the northern Utah County area. It will be very interesting to see how the Utah DOT measures the success of this project in the years to come. For example, will travel times be reduced because of the additional lanes? Definitely something to watch. Next up, we're off to the windy city of Chicago. Lightfoot administration outlines five-year, $3.7 billion plan to repair, maintain roads, bridges and other city assets. From Fran Spielman at thechicagosuntimes.com. Top mayoral aides on Tuesday unveiled a five-year, $3.7 billion capital program amid concerns about the city's ability to finance more massive borrowing, and Mayor Lori Lightfoot's demand that Alderman relinquish at least some of the control over their treasured menu program in exchange for increased buying power. In virtual briefings conspicuously timed for election day, Alderman were told that the massive borrowing would be bankrolled by a mix of tax increment financing, a first-year bond issue backed by property and or sales taxes, and quote, interim financing and cash flow management in anticipation for the future state and federal funding. That's not good enough to satisfy Civic Federation President Lawrence Masal. Not when Lightfoot's quote pandemic budget already includes $1.7 billion depth restructuring and financing with nearly $949 million of the savings claimed in the first two years. Critics have called it a quote, scoop and toss on steroids. Yet another source of controversy is the mayor's plan to increase the buying power of the Aldermanic menu from $1.3 million a year for each of the 50 Aldermen to $1.8 million by taking projects off their plate. Chicago needs $4.4 billion over the next five years to put streets, bridges, buildings, vehicles on maintenance and replacement cycles, but has funding for only $1.7 billion. The mayor's plan would eliminate the backlog by spending $617 million the first year and $3.7 billion over five years. Among the big ticket items, $759.3 million for bridge repair and replacement, $622.4 million for street resurfacing, and $400.2 million for projects concerning quote, safety, mobility and economic development in the public way. An amount that includes $37 million for bike improvement and $25 million for priority bus routes and station improvements. This is a story I am sure civil engineering professionals and firms in the Windy City are going to be looking very closely at. Now here's a quote to inspire some of our students and young professional listeners. It comes from our very own Anthony Fasano. He says in episode 145 of the Civil Engineering Podcast, Internet different companies, attend industry events, seek out industry information interviews and use your school resources to the fullest and start to build your network as early as possible. Anthony, I could not agree with you more. While these things may seem difficult right now, virtual conferences and networking events are happening all across the country and events that you probably would have never been able to go to in real life, you could attend today. Did you also know that most college and universities keep their career sources available to all their alumni? So start making use of that. There's no time like now. And that's it. That's what's happening this week in civil engineering. You can find references to all the stories mentioned at twice.news. And if you're watching on YouTube, be sure to subscribe to EMI's YouTube channel at youtube.com forward slash engineering careers. Remember to subscribe on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts. And of course, youtube.com for the video version. This is Kami Finley signing off and we'll see you next time.


everybody. Welcome back to Esoteric Atlanta. Of course, my name is Bryce. I am co-hosting today with Ms. Angie Tillman. Y'all know Ms. Angie Tillman from Athens, Georgia. And of course, we've got Davey Jackson back on the channel. How are you guys doing today? I'm good. I'm great. I'm feeling a little hot though. And we've never courted with such a hot guy. It's the filters.  I'm very haggard in real life. Davey, I got a lot of emails from some girls last time we filmed together asking about your personal life. And I was like, I have no idea. I don't know. I'm single and toxic. Come on through. Toxic. But you can follow his channel. That's right. So speaking of Davey, before we get into today, I wanted to give you a moment because you just released the Colt Kid, a comedy special. And if you guys haven't followed me for a while, you know that I can go serious in a very deep, deep rabbit holes of serious conversations, but I also love a stand-up comedy. So of course, I watched your special. I'm a huge fan. So can we take a moment? Do you want to plug your stand-up comedy special forever for my audience? I'll link that in the description box below as well. Yeah. Thank you so much. Yes, the Colt Kid comedy special. It's my debut comedy special on YouTube. It's just 20 minutes, and it's primarily about growing up in the shiny, happy people Colt.  I would prefer to laugh and find ways to continue laughing through all the trauma. It was so much fun. We recorded it here in San Antonio in front of two sold-out audiences, which was just so, so, so cool. Had a ton of fun with it. Had some really cool people involved that helped out a lot. And yeah, I'm so happy that I was able to record something like that. I had not planned on recording a special for at least another year, but when everything happened with the Prime Video documentary, Shiny, Happy People, and some of the podcasting that I was doing, I figured, you know what, let me just take the jokes that are specifically about growing up homeschooled in a Colt and make that into a 20-minute special and just put it out there for the world to see. And so I'm sure I will regret that a couple years from now when I look back and see how much my comedy has matured. And I see this thing that I did in the heat of the moment, and I'll probably cringe and stay awake until 2 or 3 a.m., just thinking about it and how much I hate myself.  And thank you so much for promoting that, Bryce. No, it was awesome.  I'll sit here. If I don't, like, monitor my time, I will literally sit on, like, Instagram and just watch shorts of people being funny because I appreciate comedy. And I appreciate it. It takes a very smart person of high intellect to be able to make jokes like that. And I will say one thing I noticed about looking at your shorts, too, Davies, you're really good at, like, the quick-witted. Like, you're good with your audience interaction, too. Like, making a quick-witted. I could never do that. So, you guys, please check it out. It is hysterical. We got a lot of ex-Christians or Christians on this channel seeking a new way of looking at their religion. And so I would highly suggest it's very relatable, even for those of us that didn't grow up in a religious cult. It's still very relatable to that conservative Christian side. And that is why Angie, I think I told you off-camera, David, I know, Dave, I know Angie and I, we talk about all the time. Angie grew up very similar to the way that Davie grew up. She did not grow up in a specific organization. But you were, even before Davie hopped on Angie, you were like, I kind of did grow up in a cult. So do you just kind of want to give a little bit of your background and we can go from there? Well, even watching the very first episode of that shiny happy people documentary, that's the only one I've seen is the first episode. But I was watching it going, those people look like the people. You know, the people that I grew up around or in the churches, like my parents go to a primitive Baptist church. And that's even like, there's not even a piano in that church. There's no music. There's no, and we know music is healing. So I'm like, why can't you have music? And, you know, then my, my dad's real big into that church, but yet he plays harmonica and guitar and, you know, goes and drinks his beer and whiskey and plays out back of a gas station a lot with, you know, his friends. I'm like, but then you go to church on Sunday and, you know, there's no music. And, you know, the same thing I've told Bryce's story so many times growing up in South Georgia, that was that my grandparents a whole lot. And there's was a Southern Baptist fundamental Baptist church. And I went every, every Sunday with them and every Wednesday and sometimes Saturday nights. And they would, they were the place they had to stick farm this long driveway. And they were the place where all the church folks came out, their church family would come out, you know, and help them pick their corn and, you know, put up all the vegetables and the deep freezer. And, you know, then I'd be there that we'd have a big fish fry because I also had the fish ponds. And that was like a good way to grow up, those kind of things. But on the funny side of it, the comedy side is I could be normal, you know, wearing my little rompers and little bathing suits running around in the sprinkler. But if there was somebody from the church coming up that long driveway, I had to run back to my grandma's closet where she had this special outfit for me to put on that was so horrendous. It was like these long cool lock things. It was like a skirt, but it was shorts. And I was just so upset because there were some cute boys at the church that would come. And I mean, you know, I guess they still kind of thought I was cute, but it was just there was just no hope. It was just like that. I mean, it was like that all the time. And it was just my grandparents had all their friends over every week to play cards. They played pinocchio and set back. But if the preacher was coming or anybody, you know, the real conservative church friends were coming, they had to hide the cards. I couldn't even play like, you know, Old Bate or anything or Crazy Apes or, you know, like kid card games. You had to hide the cards because that was evil. And why is that price? Is it because of tarot cards? Well, I know that tarot card started with it was playing cards. Well, and we kind of talked about this. Oh, I don't know if we talked about this on air or off air, Davey, but how are you familiar with the Hess Act from World War Two? Uh, vaguely. I couldn't tell you. I've heard of it. I just don't know what it's about. It's the propaganda machine of the Nazis. When, uh, when Hitler made a deal with the Pope, that they would start this propaganda campaign, you know, at the end of the 19th century, the 1800s, we had this, like we had Helena Volvonsky. We had the Fox sisters. We had spiritualism was really big, which man, those people probably had a really good time.  And so people were kind of rediscovering this like spiritual side of life, right? There was this like huge like reformation in individual's perspective of, of the afterlife. And in World War Two, uh, Hitler and the Nazis used a lot of divination. They used, you know, astrology, uh, tarot cards. And, but they decided that they were going to do this like thing with the Pope where they were going to start this campaign, this propaganda machine that all these divination tools were of the devil so that the common man would be dumbed down to the actual spiritual sciences so that they would have the upper hand knowing what's coming in the forecast in, in the, in the cosmology of the world.  You need to research where this comes from, because tarot cards themselves all like, it's just a tool. That's all it is. And it's like, if you have a knife and not my teacher in India talks about this a lot, if you have a knife, a knife can be used to cut fruit up, to serve somebody food, or to hurt somebody. The knife isn't the problem. It's the hands using the knife that are the problem or not. You know, and so, so yeah, I think, I think that's what it's funny. My grand, my grandmothers loved astrology. I had, my, my dad's mom, she was cool. She was from Quentin George down real south. She used to hide books on reincarnation under the bed from my grandfather. So maybe that's where I get my weirdness from. I don't know. Which he just runs in your family. That's great. It runs in my family. It is, and it just runs. But yeah, so, so is that, is that from the week? I'm assuming, Davey, you guys couldn't, couldn't play like cards. Could you play like playing cards or anything or? You know, my parents weren't really big on, on that kind of stuff specifically. We weren't allowed to watch any, you know, modern movies or TV shows, rock music, even Christian rock music, which is the most watered down rock music of all time, strictly forbidden. I remember my mom throwing away VHS copies of, of all the movies that we had in the house. And, and all we have left was these films produced by, what was it called, feature films for families, which I believe was a branch of focus on the family that James Dobson ran. But what Angie was talking about with, you know, these fundamental Baptist churches, that's where, I mean, that's where Gothard got all of his teachings. The cult leader for the shiny happy people cult was Bill Gothard. His ideas weren't new. This was nothing unique or, you know, earth shattering. It's not something, a new interpretation of the Bible or whatever. These were doctrines and principles that he primarily took from fundamental Baptist ideology, right? So, you know, women wear dresses at all times. The men are in charge, very patriarchal type view of things, misogynistic, if you ask me. But that's really where he was getting his ideas from. No dating, right?  So I'm still saving that first kiss. I've never been married. Oh, that was a lot with my finger whenever I was little. Wow. Oh, yeah. That's what I was told to do. I didn't think you were talking about kissing for a second, Angie. I got red. Now I'm hot. I don't know what's happening. I was nine years old and this kid thing, Ron Moody. I tried to find him on Facebook so many times. I can't find him. I want to know if he, if he quit running away from home. He's always running away from home and stuff, getting in trouble. But I remember we were in the backyard and he said, he leaned over to kiss me and I said, I've never tried that before. I was terrified of it. And he goes, practice with your, with your thumb and maybe we can do it next week.  Wow. Oh, that is. I haven't got a real kiss from him, though. I don't remember. I think I was a consensual king. We love it. Well, you know, it's interesting because I think I said with you, David, on the first episode, I grew up very conservative, Christian, but very liberal compared to both of you guys. I mean, my mother was the opposite. My mother was, I have a memory. I was probably in my mid, actually my, like my mid twenties at this point. I was living in Los Angeles and I was on the phone with my mom. And I remember talking about some guy I was like, thought was cute or something. And she goes, well, is he married? And I said, no, he's got a girlfriend though. She goes, but he's not married. And I was like, mom, no, no. Accurate. I agree with that. That was my mom. And that was even, even when we were teenagers, she'd be like, go date all the boys. Go figure out what you like. Just go, she goes, I don't understand you kids.  I always did. I always had a boyfriend. Encouraging us to like just go out and just date all the boys. You know, and I kind of have this rule. Like if I grew up with you, if I can remember what you brought to show and tell, or when you were light up, choose to school, we're not dating. Like I just kind of have, you're not going to see me naked. If we, if I remember your, your Ninja Turtle shoes, you're not going to see that. Just kind of, that's just weird to me. I came from a very small school, but yeah. So I'm like, I came from a totally, even though I came from a conservative home, my mother was my parents practice birth control. Did your parents practice birth control? Angie or Davey, did you guys do quiver fool or no? I don't know, but I got a really funny story in a little while. I wanted to kind of focus on a little bit too. Speaking of the dating light, this idea of purity culture, because I feel like purity culture for the kids who grew up in the 80s and the 90s, I feel like we got it the worst, like worse than any other generation. If you look back at past generations, yes, there was, there were stigmas on like premarital sex, but it wasn't as like, I don't feel like it was as bad as, you know, if a woman got pregnant before she was married, they would just send her away to some aunt's house for nine months, and then she would come back, you know, like there was, I feel like there, there was more pressure. And I even felt that even though my mother was really encouraging us to date, I felt that coming from my church though, this idea of like not being, not acting, and I just, I don't know. So I kind of wanted to talk about that a little. So Davey, can you talk a little bit more about this courting concept? Because I think especially for our friends who are not from America or not from the Southern part of America, this is a very, it's wild to me anyway as an American, but I feel like this is something people are really confused about because you just mentioned there was no dating. Can you, can you kind of explain that to our audience who don't know what this is? Yeah, absolutely. So I mean, courtship is an extremely old concept. I mean, this goes back to, I think like the Victorian era, right? But courtship was this idea of you don't date casually. You foster relationships with the opposite sex for the intention of marriage, right? But it goes even deeper than that because with courtship, it was essentially just this modernized version of arranged marriage. That's really what it boils down to, right? As a boy growing up in the Colt, I had a lot more freedom as far as how I wanted my courtship to go. So I could identify theoretically a female that I was attracted to and wanted to pursue a relationship with. The women or the girls in the Colt didn't really have that luxury, right? They kind of just had to stand by and wait for their dad to identify a suitor, right? So I could go to my dad, tell my dad, hey, I'm interested in Becky, right? She seems like she's got all the qualities I'm looking for in a potential wife. She covers her ankles with her dress. I've never seen her collarbone. Doesn't listen to rock music. She seems very meek and mild-mannered. Never speaks in front of men, which is all the things that we were looking for, of course. And so I would identify this woman or this girl, let my dad know I'm interested in courting her. Typically, he would talk to her father to let him know of my interest. And then, as families, they would decide, do we let this relationship move forward? And once you've entered into an, well, a courting relationship, let's say, this is where it gets even weirder, because you're never allowed to spend one-on-one time together as a male and female in a courtship relationship that's supposedly progressing towards marriage, right? You're not supposed to spend a long time with each other. And it's essentially became this thing of families dating one another. So her family and your family would all go on a date to a restaurant or a movie, and everyone just kind of participates in the growth and development of this relationship. Now, that's a very conservative view of courtship. I had friends that grew up in the Colt that, for them, courtship was just they each had to have, there needed to be at least a chaperone for every date. So it wasn't always necessarily both families merging like that. But there were even more extreme instances where the girl really didn't have a say at all, right? And it was just her dad telling her, you're going to court this guy, you're going to get married to this guy, and that's my final decision on it. And it doesn't really matter whether you're attracted to him or not. It doesn't matter how you feel about it. This is who I have identified as a suitable husband for you. So it's just this archaic concept and it's so, so, so damaging. And I've watched it unfold in a number of relationships where it's just these kids, these naive kids that court and end up getting married, they don't have an identity. They don't know who they are. And now they're trying to make their way through the real world and realize, I don't want to be in this relationship. And it could even be a toxic relationship. One of my friends talked about how she was courting a guy when she was 14 years old and he was, I want to say 17, maybe 18. And one of the things that she explained was if her parents had given this guy permission to marry her at 14 years old, she would have been stuck in that relationship until she was 18 because she couldn't have gotten a divorce because she's not an adult. So it's just incredibly toxic, just this gross misrepresentation of what true love and romance really should be. And what father, I know Angie, you grew up under these kind of stretch. I'm going to tell the story because I feel like it's supposed to because when he said 14, I mean, I think I alluded to the story last night, Davey off camera, but go ahead, Angie, tell your story. I will tell all the details of the, you said that word, but when I was 14, my dad was out of town and my mom allowed me to go and I was like you, I couldn't date or anything. Of course, I was only 14. I don't, I don't really think, well, you know, I let my daughter date, but I let her do all kinds of things because I didn't get to do anything. So, but so when I was 14, my mom allowed me to go with friends to Athens. We at the time lived in Madison. So it's like a 30 minute drive to a party at some apartment. I barely remember the part. And but I had to be home by a certain time. And I could see that the little kids that rode with me weren't leaving. And I was going to get in trouble if I didn't get home in time. This older guy, he was a senior. So I was a freshman in high school. He was a senior. So he was probably 18. He says, I can take you. And so he takes me down a dirt road and stops the truck. And the way I remembered it was just an old like probably Chevrolet or something.  So I didn't know where the buttons were. Anyway, he raped me. So the next day, he takes me home in time. I don't say a word to anybody except for my best friend. I go to my school locker and there was a note in my locker from this guy.  And can't wait to do it again. All right, something like that. Well, I had planned on taking it because I knew I couldn't talk to my parents. You couldn't talk to my parents about anything. You know, so I knew I couldn't. So I was going to take that note to the school counselor and maybe she could help me figure out what to do, get him kicked out of school, something. And you know, at that age, I don't know what you're supposed to do. And I left it on my dresser by accident. Went to school. My mom found the note, showed it to my dad.  He didn't even go to my school yet. He was in middle school. I was in high school. Like I had a younger boyfriend. I'm on the cord and phone washing dishes after supper and talking to my little boyfriend. And I haven't told him what happened to me. And all of a sudden my dad says, you have a visitor. They had that guy that ran over to the house, sat us around a table and said, biblically, you know each other. And that means you have to get married. And that guy was so excited. He was like, yes, sir. Like, and he was like, so ugly. Like, just, you know, I mean, that's what I remember is like looking across the table at just like this monster. And but yeah, so I, yeah, I think my dad said after she gets out of ninth grade, we'll let her go through ninth grade. And but yeah, you have to get married. And he would come, he would take me to school and pick me up. And he would go looking for trailers for us to live in. And so, yeah, as it as the year, you know, starts getting it gets closer and closer to where I'm going to be out of ninth grade, I'm thinking, is this really going to happen? Is this really going to happen? And I just kind of put on an act with my dad, he was coming home from one of his business trips, he could go on like a week long trip and come back. And as he was coming up the driveway, I was like, okay, okay, okay.  I want to be your little girl again. This is how you have to play them. I want to be your little girl again. I remember saying that to him. And he didn't really say anything or even look me in the eye. And he goes, all right. And that was just it. And then I didn't have to see that guy anymore. And I didn't have to get married. But that's the, you know, and it's just never ended. You know, so, yeah, always controlled like what I could do who I could see. Even like I was talking to Bryce earlier before you got on about my high school sweetheart at a wedding recently. And I mean, I was just telling him, like this is crazy. Like we probably would have ended up kind of staying together if it weren't for my parents. You know, they didn't, they didn't want us together. So he's really a nice guy. That's hard, isn't it though? Like when you think about like parents, I mean, I'm not a parent.  But what your parents did to you is not protecting you.  But I'm 40, he's 51. Like that's different than when you're 14 and 18. There's a huge difference between a 14 year old and 18 year old kid. You know, I think at 14, I might have still had a few Barbies laying around. You know, that's that weird kind of like we're in between a little girl and coming into a woman. And that's horrific, Angie. And that, I think too, what happens as well is it's not just the trauma of what happened to you, but then the double, the betrayal of the two people in this world that are supposed to protect you beyond all life. And mom's just back there. My mom sat there at the table and let it happen. And now when I bring it up to her, she says she doesn't remember it. Which is entirely possible because your frontal cortex just shuts down in situations like that. So I'm sure it was very traumatizing for your mom as well. But I mean, the phrase that resonated was, you know each other in the biblical sense. Yes. And that is what these types of ideologies set us up for. When we take this so-called moral high ground, so in the name of moral purity for religious purposes, your parents thought, oh, well, she's got to marry this guy now. Obviously, he took her purity. And that's the answer. That's the solution to perpetuate the trauma, to feed you to the wolves. But that is so standardized in this type of fundamental Christian environment a lot of times. Yeah. Well, the year later, it's always when he was coming home from a trip. I don't know what he would think about in the car on the way home from the airport. We'd get him all crazy. But he walked in one night and I was all excited to show him what I was working on in school. I was a real smart girl in school. Great grades, all A's, but still didn't go to college. I'm glad I didn't go to college at this point. But he walked in one night and I was going to show him my project that I was working on.  I'm like, my mom, you know, it was late at night. I was trying to finish this project. So your dad couldn't handle your womanhood, the fact that you were becoming a woman. And he recognized how pretty you were, but couldn't stand to look. I mean, I was pregnant with my third child and we were getting ready to go to Disney. Like we were going on a family trip and my mom and dad came by the house before we left. I still remember like what I was wearing. It was like a maternity top, but it was spaghetti straps. Oh, he goes, you're going to wear that in public. And my mom would have been like, that looks cute. I'd wear this. And you know what I mean? Like I don't care. So with that story, Davey, as a man, if a boy is caught in the IBLP, making advances on a female that's not wanted by that female, how is that treated? Is the man rewarded? Because we've seen this with like the Duggers where it seems like they protect Josh and they just leave their daughters to the slaughter.  This is wild to me. So where is this? Is that even? So in that situation, Davey, if a boy had like been known a female in a biblical way, but it wasn't her choice as teenagers, was that common? And the woman was kind of been saddled up to this guy that was her abuser for the good of the purity to maintain her purity? That I don't know as far as the specific instance that happened to Angie. I'm so sorry. That's just absolutely horrific. Certainly in the case of pregnancy, absolutely. If a man and a woman become with child, I guess, and they're not married, then that is the expectation that, okay, well, now you've created life together, so you must get married at this point. And that's just kind of standard, right? At least in these very conservative fundamental Christian environments. And certainly in the cult, although there are some stories that I'm familiar with. There was a girl that lived at the cult compound in Taiwan. She got pregnant, not sure by who, but when they found out that she was pregnant, she just got kind of sent home, swept under the rug. Let's just pretend that didn't happen, right? But I think the more problematic, the more problematic thought from the cult's perspective behind a lot of this stuff is that it's the woman's fault, right? It's the girl's fault because she was in the wrong place at the wrong time, right? This didn't have to happen if you weren't at that party where you shouldn't have been. You were out from under your umbrella of protection and that's why this horrific thing happened to you. You were wearing clothes that were creating eye traps and lust for this predator. And if you hadn't been doing that, might not have happened to you. There's this instance that happened at one of the primary compounds for the cult. In today's day and age, this would be so problematic because it was one of the top guys, one of the top leaders in the cult. And he ended up having a relationship with his secretary. In anyone's opinion today, that would be considered an abuse of power, right? But he also happened to have a wife and a ton of kids because, quiverful, right? When he was caught cheating on his wife with his secretary, he left his wife to start a new family and they were just kind of left to fend for themselves. But the cult released a publication basically instructing women how not to let their husbands cheat on them. Not admonishing men, hey, don't cheat on your wife. But instructing women, here's what you need to do to make sure that your husband doesn't step outside of your marriage. Which is just mind blowing. My first job, well one of, I had lots of jobs when I said maybe about their job, I worked with a bunch of older ladies at a bank and they would tell me that kind of stuff. They would say, now you're newly wed and how often do y'all, I was like, oh, you know, if you don't keep them happy, he's gonna find somebody that will. So it's kind of the same thing. I'll never forget that. See, mad though is it's degrading to men as well. Like that a man can't just love a woman and understand, you know, have you heard of the transformed wife, either of you? She's this blogger, she's awful.  This woman asked her, she does like a question answer and this woman sent her an email and said, my husband, like basically the woman had said no and she woke up in the middle of the night with her husband on top of her and she asked Debbie, or not Debbie, she asked this transformed wife lady, what is this rape?  If anybody's watching this right now, listen, I went through most, I like bad boys.   And that is so, I feel like, because I know Angie, in the South, I think women kind of are that way anyway, like you always got to please your husband. And I just, I just, it's that, I feel like that's just so it's, it really kind of is degrading to the women, to the sense where you feel like you can't say no.   And at that point, I think it's okay to say no. And I think the father of that child, your husband, would or your partner would absolutely understand it. Well, let's, let's, let's make it clear. It's always okay to say no, regardless of whether you're recovering from childbirth or just had a bad day or not in the mental headspace for, what it's always okay to say no. And there's this concept in the shiny happy people cold. And, and I think it's, it probably goes far beyond the cult that I grew up. And I'm sure it applies in a lot of fundamental Christian circles, but there was this concept specifically of receiving your husband joyfully, right?  Because that's, that's not the way it's supposed to be. You shouldn't have to fake it if you're not in the mood. But that's, that is the kind of patriarchal misogyny that creates these, these environments that are ripe for manipulation and abuse. It's those concepts. Before we go, because I do want to go deeper into this. Can you quickly though, because I know we didn't talk about this last time, and you mentioned the umbrella, and I realized we didn't, can you just explain what that is to people that are like, what, what do you mean by this umbrella system? Yeah, the umbrella of authority, that was Bill Gotherd's like favorite thing to talk about in the basic seminar, right? So the umbrella of authority, an umbrella is meant to protect you from the rain, right? It, it, it over arches you so that you are sheltered from the elements. In, in Bill Gotherd's opinion, your umbrella of authority is essentially God, the church, or your immediate authority. And in most families, that would be the father. And so as long as you are under God's umbrella of authority with your dad and your mom, you are protected from Satan. But as soon as you step out from under that umbrella, and stepping out from under that umbrella could be any number of things. Maybe you decide to date instead of court. Maybe you're listening to non-sanctioned rock music. Maybe you're going to the movies. Maybe you're experimenting. It could be any number of things where you step out from the under this umbrella of protection. Now all of a sudden, anything that happens to you from a negative standpoint at that point is deserved. Because you are not under the umbrella that you're supposed to be under. You're exposed to Satan. And so it's all your fault. Anything negative that happens to you out from under that umbrella is your fault. And they will use that ad nauseam. If you're even a little bit prideful, or you've created a stronghold of lust in your life, these are the kinds of words that they use in the cult, that pushes you out from underneath this umbrella. And so realistically, anything negative that happened in your life, they would almost force you to trace it back to, well, this is where I stepped out from under my umbrella of protection, aka outside of God's will. And I deserve all of this that's happening to me. And if you couldn't identify it, then it was just God sending you through trials and tribulations to strengthen your faith. These are the things that made me think of Hurricane Katrina. I remember people saying, well, you know, all that all that hedonism that goes on in New Orleans. That's why God sent the hurricane. I remember people say, yeah, I've heard people use like natural disasters as an, you know, in my opinion, that's weaponizing God and God is not a weapon.  If I was in this this cult, I would have been under my father's protection.  So you never have a point in this cult where you're able to kind of express yourself and be yourself. And and like, it just seems like women just have are taught from the very beginning that they don't have a voice at all. And they're in their life and their protection and their own and protecting themselves. And and I'm not I'm not because as a woman, I do I love feeling that protection from a man. That's one of the things that attracts me to men is that they're bigger and they can protect and they can they can have that alphaness. But in a loving, healthy relationship, there is that protection with respect and with respect of the partner and type of censorship. Really, you know, just it's kind of the same thing. Yeah, I want to bring this up too, because we look at the people like the duggers, we know that from their show that a lot of these courtships ended marriage at a very young age, like when you're not your brain's not fully developed. Lord have mercy.  So, you know, you're just not ready at that age to make those those lifelong commitments. But we look at people like Jana Dugger, who is in her what her early 30s and still living at her father's. So what point is there a point in this cult, where if a woman is not married at a certain time, she does have the authority to walk away, or is she always just stuck in that little girl stuck under her father's control until the day he what happens if he dies and the woman's not married? Does she go to her brother? That's a great point. I don't even know what happens in a scenario like that because because yeah, what what you're saying, Bryce, is exactly accurate. Those those women really the only the only time justifiably in the most literal interpretation of what this cult believes that a woman should leave her father's house is if she gets married, right. And so as long as you're not married, if you grow up into an old maid, right, you just you have to stay with your parents. I don't know what would happen after, you know, your parents pass away. What what what do you do now? I don't maybe go live at the church. I don't know now you're under the authority of your pastor at that point. It's but that's that's why this stuff is so ridiculous and ludicrous and really what it ultimately does is dehumanize those women and they become objects they don't have their own identity and really their only useful purpose is to serve their authority figures whether that's a husband or a father or whatever right and take care of babies have babies and take care of babies. And the amount of pregnancies I'll tell you guys with my sister so my sister has two children who are like a year apart. And then over the lockdown, she got pregnant with my third knee. So they're far apart in age that she has a COVID baby. And when my nephew called me to tell me that my sister was pregnant, he's on the phone with me is like, yeah, Bryce, mom is pregnant. And I hear my sister in the background go and I don't want to talk about it like she was so I think about that all the time with women in these situations like every and I know that every child is I get like, I get that like you can have a rough pregnancy and be shocked and still be grateful for your baby. I totally get that. But I think how many women, you know, is it is it possible that women are even practicing birth control without without even telling their husbands because they're just so I would do something like that. I would be like, I'll go get the pill and not tell him because I don't want to have any more. I don't want to do this again. Well, but at the same time, these women are brainwashed. Yeah, in the cold, these women are brainwashed and it has become their duty to birth children.  God wants you to have as many babies as possible.  Oh, what kind of pressure is let me talk about the men for a second.  And I can't help but think like how much pressure, unnecessary pressure that is for a boy, a teenager who's getting close to that marital age to know that he now is going to have to take a wife, support her, and then support however many children are blessed with. Like it's all on your shoulders as the man. Like, how did that feel growing up? Did you feel that pressure? Oh, yeah. That is your responsibility as a man. You got to have a job, be able to provide because you're going to have a wife and a bunch of kids now. You don't get really an opportunity to go find yourself. You don't have the luxury of, you know, having your rebellious years, right? Because all of that would be, well now you're out from under your umbrella of authority because this is what the Bible tells us to do. We are, we need to find a help meet, right? I mean, it talks about it in Genesis. And so if you don't find that help meet, you must be doing something wrong. So if you're not getting a wife and then having kids, you're technically, unless you're doing a ministry of some sort, right? Because, I mean, Bryce, you would disagree with this, but Jesus never got me. He had his ministry, right? But yeah, so unless you're ministering or you've decided that you just aren't going to have a wife because you need to dedicate your life to serving God, that was really the only reason that you wouldn't get married as early as possible and start having kids. I mean, I feel empathy for the men because I'm sure in this situation, they're more good people than not. And to have that pressure at 16, 17 years old, my nephew will be 11 soon. I mean, he's not that far away, you know, at 11, that's only like five, six years before APP were in this cold. I'm like, holy crap, I cannot imagine the amount of pressure that is for these young men to, you know, the wife, the woman is not trained to work, she's not supposed to work, she was to work in the house. And I know that's a lot of work too, I get that. But, you know, as far as financially providing and you're right, like when couples are in the secular world, when they're young and they're getting together and they're both working and they're newly married, there's some fun in those poor years when you're getting furniture and, you know, it's a group effort where you're family planning, you know, my family, family plan, there's only two of us, you know. So, so I just wanted to acknowledge that, that that is a lot of pressure to put on a young man to think that, you know, just by getting a wife, now he is now the head, the umbrella of this other child that he just married, because let's be real, 18 years old for both, that still doesn't, in my opinion, that's still kids, even though really it's not, it's still kids, you know, and so now they're playing, they're playing grown up, they're playing and so let's talk, let's go there, let's talk about sex. So, in this cult, and Angie, we can talk about the book too, because I was going to, we're going to bring that up. I know, I'm sure people are going to be like, why is that book in her lap? It's red too, look at that scandal. It's not time with granny. Because granny is brave, I'm 10 years older than basically all kids, so.  I honestly don't know, Bryce, because I never got the talk growing up. Never, ever, we never discussed, I don't know if my, I know my little brother did, as part of the premarital counseling that he did with my parents before he got married, it's just crazy. I love my parents, I love my brother, but they still do some wacky stuff. Not so much my brother, just more so my parents, but they're great and I love them, I've got a great relationship with them. But at any rate, I did not get the talk. I did not know what it was. I had some extremely misguided thoughts on what I thought it was that were just completely off base. And so, I don't really know, it's almost like sex is avoided at all costs as a discussion topic, other than don't do it, just don't do it. Don't do it until you're married and then when you do it, after you're married, it's to have babies. Right, so it's almost like this fundamental Catholic approach.  So, I honestly don't know a whole lot about it. I will never forget, so I got sent to a behavioral rehab at one of the compounds when I was 16 years old. Bryce, you and I talked about this and it was for having a girlfriend. And I actually met another girl while I was at the compound in this intensive behavioral rehab program. So, I got in trouble for having a girlfriend at home and then got in trouble again for fraternizing with a girl at the compound. But I will never forget, they sent me to this counseling session. And just to give you some context, I had broken my foot while I was at the compound. And so, I was in a cast and I remember my parents were in town because they were essentially coming to get me because I was going to get kicked out of this program. So, my parents were there. We were in a hotel room, one of the hotel rooms at the compound. And this guy comes in, it's an older guy. I don't remember his name at all. But I'm laying in bed with my foot elevated. He lays in bed with me and then proceeds to tell me all about the evils of masturbation. And I mean explaining some of this stuff in graphic details and pantomiming a lot of it as well. And asking me about my habits with masturbation. And I'm just mortified, number one, in extremely uncomfortable because I got this old guy laying next to me in bed talking to me about something deeply personal. And he was acting like it was totally normal. But also, I'd never had the sex talk. This is the first exposure I have talking to someone about sex at all. And it was just such a weird moment but it seared into my brain. There's a lot that I don't remember from the two or three months or however long it was that I was at the compound. There's a lot that I don't remember. I don't remember the conversation in its entirety that I had with Bill Gothard when I got kicked out the interrogation I went through with him. That conversation, I remember vividly because of just how awkward and weird and frankly creepy it was. Isn't that weird how trauma will do that? You'll either remember something like very specific like it was yesterday or you don't remember it at all. I actually can empathize with that. I have full memories of middle school and I only have sporadic memories of high school. I met up with an old friend when I first moved back to Georgia from high school. He was like, remember that trip we went on? I was like, no, you're thinking of somebody else. And the next weekend we went back up and he had found pictures. There was a lot going on at that time in my life too. So that's how trauma works. You literally don't remember things. And I mean, that is, did your parents knew this guy was in there talking to you about this or? I guess, yeah. I don't know if they knew what he was going to talk to me about. But yeah, they knew he was having this conversation with me. Angie's got a son. He's, how old is your son? He's in his early 20s, right? 21. So like, could you imagine that Angie has a mother of a boy? It was so weird. It was so, so, and that was weird. But then we went to another counseling session. It was me and my parents. So altogether in this counseling session, it was with this older black gentleman that was a pastor at a church or a former pastor at church. He was like close friends with Bill Gothard. And that one wasn't sinister, like the guy on the bed.  Like, dude, do you think we don't know what's going on right now? Like literally, he's just the whole time.  He didn't eat it. I don't know. Okay, fair point. Fair point, Angie. But still, it was very, very weird.  She'd be like, yeah, I can see all the girls. But even though my mother encouraged that, we still didn't really talk about sex. Like that really, she would encourage us to date. But there were, you know, there's certain things you don't talk about. And I remember when my sister got pregnant with my nephew, she got pregnant with my nephew like a month before they were supposed to get married. So no big deal. But when I first found out she was pregnant, my first, I was excited because I was going to be an aunt. But then I was really excited because I was like, and I knew my parents knew I wasn't a virgin, but they didn't have proof. I was like, now, mom and dad actually know she's not a virgin anymore. So they found her out first. For sure. Now, now, Grena, I've lived with I've lived with a ton of men. So I had lived with men at this point, like obviously, but I don't mean a thing. That doesn't mean a thing, right? You're living in separate bedrooms. They don't know. They don't have proof. That's right. They have no proof of my sister. Now they have three evidence, three little evidence running around and she has actually done the deed. So thank you to my sister for that. So they paid rent somewhere, split rent with another girl who wasn't, neither one of us lived at this place. We both just rented, like, a little room in a house and pretended to our parents that that was our address. We split the rent because we were both with our boyfriends. How did you have so much disposable income at that point? I would have loved that. I used to model back when I was skinny. You're beautiful. You should see.  I'm not surprised at all. Redkin, hair products, Coca-Cola, poppy underwear, girl, girl. I'm going to find all the pictures.  You know, I got discovered at the bank. You know, my mama, when she, when I was in the eighth grade, we went to the shop and she made me get a bikini. I remember, I mean, I was like, I was skinny. I was 14, like 98 pounds, right? And I remember putting that bikini on my mama's cycle up. I had your figure. I would just walk around the town in a bikini. So my mother would have been very encouraging of your lingerie pictures. The jockey underwear was like ugly. It was just like sports bras and like. Hey, listen, that's all I had growing up. That is all I had for material, so to speak. My son, I used to get those Victoria's Secret catalogs come in the mail, you know, and I would find them in his room all the time under his bed when he was little, you know, like. I wish these were JC Penney catalogs. That's all I had access to because my mom would intercept Victoria's Secret from the boy. Oh, you probably did see me. Yeah. Oh, wow. Now I am googling your name when we are done. That my mama was very encouraging of that. She was like, if you got the figure, just flaunt it, just flaunt it, just go out there and flaunt it. So the one thing my mama was strict about is you don't leave that house that lipstick and mascara. She wanted you to be as much of a Jezebel as possible. That's crazy. I mean, like she literally, I told you guys when I was my 20, she would now had a crush on a guy and I was like, he's got a girlfriend. She was like, he's not married, not married. Like as long as he's not me, I'm like, mom, you're not wrecking an actual home. It's a fake home. Go wreck it. That's so funny. Yeah. And that's, and my mom's very southern. She's very, very press theory, but I will say, shout out to my mom.  And I will say, you know, shout out to my mom. She was a big old Republican, but I remember one time we were sitting at speaking of teen pregnancy.  And I remember my mother didn't say anything. We just sat there the whole lunch and she just ate and ate, did not say a word.  I didn't know what it was. So we got in the car and I asked my mom, I was like, why, because my mom's a talker. And I was like, mom, why didn't you say anything? And she goes, because I'm not pro-life. I'm pro-choice. And she started to explain to me what that meant. And I didn't know that that was like big for the Republicans to be pro-life because my parents were big Republicans, but she was pro-choice. And my mother said, well, that's because as a Republican, I believe everyone has the right to the freedom of their own religion. And she was like, now, if you girls get pregnant, we believe life starts at conception and we will take care of that baby and we will love that baby. But you don't have the right to tell another woman what to do. It's her body. And it's her faith and it's her. And my mother was very big about the church and state should absolutely be separate. That the church have nothing to do. So that was very progressive of my mother. I have to give her props for that for being a Southern and a somewhat conservative as she was and as Presbyterian as she was. She had some very logical, grounded, progressive views on things. Yeah, I was about to say very, very progressive, which is so interesting. And even now at age 50, just a couple of months ago, I thought I was pregnant.  You always say that I remind you of her. But I was at a store in Clayton, Georgia, and I was just telling the store owner all about us. I think I'm pregnant. I can't fit into anything anymore. I think I'm pregnant. And she goes, girl, what are you going to do? And I said, I guess I'm just going to start designing a nursery.  Like at that age, I didn't understand like finances, you know, as young. And what she was basically saying was too is that you're lucky. You come from a family that if you got pregnant, could support the baby and give you in the baby a good life. And we wouldn't force you to get married. We would be able, but there are so many people out there that don't have that. And I didn't realize at that point that she was talking about that, like not only would this baby be loved and wanted, but it would be supported. And I didn't put you into together until later on in life when I started thinking about how cool my mom was to like, you know, not be not kind of be more grounded and more logical about the situation of the world around us. And that, you know, and that this was, you know, in our house, yes, life starts at conception, but that doesn't mean that's the belief in the house next door. And you don't have. You know what's so interesting, Bryce, as you're talking about this, it's, it's giving me some like, aha moments. You know, the way that I was raised, right, with this courtship mentality, and that's how we dated, I'm realizing with this conversation how much it's impacted my dating life as as an adult years separated from the cult, right? Because the the idea was with courtship, you are dating to get married, right? That is, that is the outcome of this courtship relationship is marriage. That is where it's headed. Unless something drastic happens, right?  But a few years ago, I had a really hard time breaking up with someone. Even if I knew it wasn't working, it wasn't the right thing. It was toxic. It was whatever, right? I would have a very difficult time breaking up. And I think it's because of that ingrained mentality of, well, no, I'm dating this person to get married. That's, that's the whole goal of dating. It's not just to get to know someone or have fun or maybe a short term relationship, or this is what I need at this stage in my life, right? No, this is so that I can get married. And I think it's all that old indoctrination and brainwashing, if you will, from the courtship mentality. And so what you're talking about with pro life and pro choice, growing up that way with those ideas and opinions and how that influences you now, I just, it's so interesting how we carry that with us. And for me, I didn't even realize that I was carrying that with me still, which is kind of crazy. No, that makes sense. I mean, this is what I, off camera, this is what I do with people. I help them work through their shadow side with the Eastern philosophy and stuff. And that makes a lot of sense because when we're children, that's where the most brainwashing happens, the most programming happens. And so those patterns, those thought patterns, it's in Sanskrit, it's the yoga to different denerotah, it's the thought patterns that engrave within us and create a pattern of life. And so, and it seems like now that when you start to recognize that, that's when the course correction can happen. And, and I think most women, especially, I mean, the good thing about our age, Davey, is that most women, if you're dating around our age, have had a lot of life experience, too.  But, but when you get older, you kind of do kind of get a little bit more relaxed. Like I was laughing with some of my clients, my students did a week about nursing homes that it's like the highest level of STDs. Because those, those people are like, we're not getting married. Like we don't have that much, let's just have fun. Like they're fine. Who cares? Yeah, unless you're still get pregnant at 50. Granny, can you still get pregnant? Girl, that's, I didn't know that. That's hysterical. That is funny. Hey, I didn't know you did. No, but going back to like, and I hope it's okay, we're just going on all kinds of tangents, but going back to like the talk, like did your parents give you the talk, and I was sitting there going, I need to tell them that I actually learned from my parents by accident. Did you go up in? No, it's worse, but it's kind of funny. This is uncomfortable. What happened? Did they have a surrogate? Were they swings? Just like what? In Albany, Georgia, there was something happened. I don't know why, but we had like a snow day. It was being like an ice, you know, ice storm kind of thing down there. So all everybody's parents were at work and all the kids in the neighborhood, like a bunch of them came over to my house and they were like, getting any cool movies? And I said, no, all I had was like the Andy Griffith show and the Beverly Hill billies. My parents would record all those episodes. I know every single one of them by heart. That's all I could really watch that and Woody Woodpecker stuff like that. And so I was like, I think I know where some are. I'll be right back. And so it's like the VHS. We're like seven or eight.  And I go to my parents room on top of the dresser. There was a shoebox with VHS tapes in it. A hidden shoebox. Was it a porno? I just assumed they were like, you know, really good movies that I wasn't supposed to watch, which is like, I mean, I guess it's a porno. It's a really good one. It's called Debbie does Dallas. I remember that. I was like, but I thought anyway, but anyway, but I didn't I didn't choose that one. I just chose another one. I just stuck it in the the player waiting for it to come on. And I'm like, y'all the fun house and you didn't even know it. It was my mom on screen, like laying in the bed. And then all of a sudden you see like my dad come bouncing across the bed. They're completely naked. And I'm like, they were pioneers though. I mean, I remember those big videotape recorders. Yeah. I mean, that took some effort. I've got one out there somewhere. I don't know where it is. Grandparents made a whole movie. I'm doing such a deep dive on Google later. I swear I was. I heard recently from my high school boyfriend that his first wife made him throw it away in the dumpster. I've never made one of those movies. I've never done that. It's fun.  It's like a waste. It's a waste. Yeah, I didn't grow up with that. I had to sneak to do everything. And so I was doing it.  I don't trust you. Oh yeah. I used to be called like for a little while, the black magic woman that song I would use that song. He was a good, like it had a good rhythm. But anyway, this is a Southern girls. It's always, it's always the prim and proper ones. That's it. It's always the, it's always the sweet Demir church girls just like, what have I done? I think I've just lost my soul. I'll take the funniest thing Angie said in them. I know we're over an hour now, but we were talking, David, we were talking once about the Southern prayer circles, how these women get together and have prayer circles. And it's actually a, they gossip, they go to dear Lord, please protect this family. Cause we hear that Susan's cheating on her. Like they're telling gossip as they're praying while they justify it. And Angie goes, she goes, yeah, they're a coven. Everybody in this town knows that I'm one through divorce right now. Everyone. I'm going to an event pretty soon where I know all of them are going to be at too. And it's a comedy show actually. And I'm, it's going to be taped while I'm there. So it's Karen Morgan. But anyway, I can't wait to see all these witches, these covens and I'm called a witch.  Don't go to church anymore. And I don't, I left the church. So I'm practicing witchcraft. Oh honey. Well, which means why? I'll take it anytime someone calls me a witch. I'm like, thank you very much. Thank you. Okay, you guys. Well, I know we're going to have Davey back on cause I do want to do the Joshua generation episode with him. I really want to take a very serious look and Angie show that book quickly. We had talked about just for the audience. Leave it in the comment section below. It's called for pleasure intended for pleasure. I have it in my Amazon shopping cart. Now, Davey, something we do on this channel sometimes is we read through books and give commentary. Usually I pick very, um, I don't read books very, very graphic, but, um, we could put it on the rumble channel. But Angie texts me one night when she was cleaning out her bookcase and was like, we should read this book together on the YouTube's and give our commentary. So you guys, if you want to do sex ed with Angie and Bryce with intended for pleasure and us give our commentary on how it's all about making him happy and not the woman, um, let us know in the comment section below. Again, if it is very graphic, we might have to put those episodes on rumble where there's no censorship. Just let us know down in the comment section below and you too can get your own copy. I have a, I have a comment. I've, will any of it be simulated? Cause I'll watch some realistic looking things use dolls. I don't know. I've never, never had it. I've never had it. I've never been in a lack. I'm just going to say it. Thank you God. Thank you, Alice. Thank you, my mama, Alice. I've never been in a lack for a man. I'm a man somewhere. So I've never needed that. But, um, so you guys, let us know down in the comment section below. Also, let us know if you want us to continue these, if these, if these conversations are therapeutic. Cause I do know that a lot of my viewers grew up in a very conservative Christian actually shout out to one of my moderators. I won't say her name cause I don't want to embarrass you. She was a minister or a preacher. I don't know which one's a daughter in a Baptist church and she is like the most badass women that I have.  And that has been always been my point going through the missing Bibles, going, books of the Bible, going through all this channel material is to give people liberation to help them like realize that God is not mad at you cause you had sex.  Like God made that. Like that's not, you know, it's a powerful, it's a powerful exercise when you're doing it with consent. It's a very wonderful thing. And so I, yeah, if you guys want us to continue going deeper into these conversations, we are going to be bringing Davey back. And yes, Davey, I think you are definitely a crowd favorite for the women. You've got a huge fan club of women that all emailed me wanting to know again, if you were single, I was like, I don't know. I think me and Angie are together now. Actually, sorry to first everyone. Okay, that's what I was hoping. This is exactly what I got on my red lips and everything for you. Just got to cleavage out everything. Yep. So I could have never, oh, you know, I couldn't wear a bikini. I couldn't wear, you know, uh-uh. Well, y'all just had the wrong, if you had my mama growing up, you would I was, I had to quit the swim team because I wasn't allowed to wear a Speedo anymore. That is like the absolute truth. And I was really good too. I could have been, I could have been Michael Phelps.  Wow. Wow. We all have our own paths. It's fine. It's real.  But anyway, yeah, I know we've got to stop this. Well, but you're going to be in Georgia, right?  I know you don't have all the dates, but I will definitely advertise. If you don't have the dates on you, you'll be in Macon and in Savannah for some shows. And so if you live, I have a lot of Georgia viewers are in the surrounding states and you want to go to a good comedy show, I will post those dates. Just send me the dates, David, and I'll put them up on the community tab. Yeah, I will get those. I should have them. I don't know why I don't have them. This is part of my problem is I'm not terribly organized when it comes to that kind of stuff. I just like showing up and telling jokes, but I'll be at the Macon Art Center. I want to say it's, it's in October at some point, and then I'll be in Savannah. I believe that's in January when I'll be in Savannah. But yeah, I love coming to Georgia, Atlanta. I love Atlanta. I love the diversity in Atlanta. It's always just such a cool vibe there. And the strip clubs are great there. And that's kind of my sex base. I was about to say you were sending me, you said you dated a strippers. Have you ever been to Claremont Lounge? I have not. No. But Claremont Lounge. I'm going to have to check it out. Fantastic. If you're in Atlanta next time, I will take you, David. I will take you to the Claremont Lounge. I will pay for you to get in and experience. You've been to the Claremont, right, Angie? No, but I know about it. Yeah, there's strippers there. It worries me that it's called a lounge. Anytime something's called a lounge, it's always like, what are we about to get into? They do. What, Blondie? There's some Atlanta liberties that work at the Claremont Lounge. It is drippers on steroid. They can do tricks with their boobs. They're older ladies. They're of the older kind. It's maybe sort of like the comedy club of strip clubs. People are hanging out in Atlanta, Georgia. I used to go all the time. I love that.  I love that. So it is Atlanta landmark. So if you're ever in Atlanta, make sure you go to Claremont Lounge on Ponce, Ponce to Leon Avenue. The hotel used to be abandoned, but they just redid it and now it's got rooms. So so if you find a good strip, be alike. I'll meet you there, Davey. I'll see you there. I love it. We're going to have such a good time. So and we'll make an anti-will plan. We'll go to one of the shows. We'll plan it. Well, we'll do a girl's trip down to I'm close to making. Let's see the making one for sure. Yeah. And I'll get to you, David. We'll set you up with my friend who was the artist of the Almond Brothers out with Eda Peach and the widespread I'll have to take a really funny story, though, before we sign up about the widespread panic paintings because we get a lot of his paintings and they're there. We give them as gifts and my stepfather is like he like is like a savant when it comes to rock music like he can hear it. He take who the who the person is who wrote the song when it was written. He has this little man cave in a bar at my parents' house. And so we got these paintings for him.  My mama, even though she was very progressive, I don't think she realized that's what they were. She went and got those suckers professionally framed. It's like the opposite of Georgia O'Keefe. That's so cool. All these frail penises on the wall. Is she no male? Maybe not. When she watches this, she'll know because I know she'll watch it. So yeah. And it's got it hanging up over her bed, just making your dad feel impotent. All the kids toys, like my the grandkids toys are like in toy boxes below. Oh, they're going to have so much weird Freudian stuff when they get old. But bless her heart. All right, you guys. Well, I've had so much fun. Thank you guys. This was a very serious conversation, but it was also a very comical conversation. And I agree with you, Davey comedy. It can be very, very healing to be able to get to a point. That's what I appreciate about all the Scientology people as they all seem to have a great sense of humor about all of their trauma as well. And so and that's wrong. Dots says we're all just walking each other home. We're all just trying to figure out this figure out this human thing together. And sometimes we go way wrong, like the IBLP. And sometimes we go a little right. And so so I thank you guys for being here. Let us know your thoughts and your opinions down in the comment section below. And if you are from another country and you have some IBLP questions, because I know I have a lot of people from other countries that watch my show. So leave those questions also in the comment section below. So we can also help address the I could know the IBLP did have some some groups outside the United States. But I want to make sure that I know Europe has a more liberal approach to things than we do anyway. So anyway, guys, well, thank you so much for making my afternoon fun. So thank you. All right, we'll talk to you guys soon. Bye everybody.


Welcome to All Hands Update. I'm Petty Officer Ian Cotter. The Navy is looking to make changes to the Coalition of Sailors Against Destructive Decisions, or CSAT, program.  Navy personnel command, or NPC, is looking to turn CSAT into a non-federal entity, a benefit that will reduce admin burdens for commands. Participation in CSAT will be 100% voluntary. NPC believes the CSAT program is strong enough to stand on its own, and will no longer receive funding from the Navy. These changes are aligned with the Chief of Naval Personnel's theme of giving commands more authority to do what they do best. Lead their Sailors. Get with your command CSAT representative to see how you can get involved, or visit the Navy Live blog for more information on these upcoming changes.