Welcome to our seminar organized by IHE Delft. Today we will have the topic paradigm lost on the value of lost causes in transforming cities and water systems, development pathways by an alumnus and doctor Jonathan Godinez Madrigal. Before making, doing the introduction, I would like to invite everybody to silence the microphones and to keep it during the whole event. And of course, let us know your country of residence and place of work to facilitate the networking. After the seminar, we will have a time for questions and answers. So I invite you also to write your questions in the chat. Good, my name is Maria Laura Sorrentino I'm an alumni relations officer at IHE Delft and it's my pleasure to be the moderator of this event today and to have the presence of an alumnus as a speaker and my colleague, BJ, as a technical support of this event. But let us talk of our seminar. I would like to introduce very briefly to Jonathan. You can read his complete CV and work at the web page of IHE Delft. But Jonathan is born in Mexico in Guadalajara and he was always very interested in social, in social environment problems and a passionate person about finding new ways to address them. He first graduated from the International Relations in 2007 in the Shizuit University of Guadalajara where he learned how economics, culture and politics influence in international conflict and cooperation. But above all, the ethics and the serving, the underprivileged and the urge to transform the world. He came to IHE Delft to follow the PhD program and he graduated last year. His thesis, paradigm lost on the value of lost causes in transforming cities and water systems, development pathway that was his focus and it focused on a conflict that take place in Mexico. He began studying the conflict over the El Saboticio project in 2015. For over 16 years, this project has been a cause of tension within the Mexican state of Jalisco. The construction of Adam within the Berde River basin aimed to address water supply challenges in two prominent cities. However, the project also posed a threat to three villages placed in the homes of an ancestral lands of the residents at Ritz Flodin. The construction of the land then led to a conflict that had long been considered intractable. By collaborating with the communities and proposing workable alternative solutions for both the water supply and the cities and the security of villages, Jonathan facilitate a break out of the parties involved. The very important point of this thesis also is that was awarded the prize for the best interdisciplinary PhD thesis in the Netherlands by the Royal Holland Society of Science and Humanities. This thesis achievement holds even greater significance as it marks the inaugural presentation of this esteemed prize. And the thesis was the selected one anonymously chosen by the jury among 76 submissions of thesis of all university in the Netherlands. Congratulations, Jonathan. And as he says, this prize is a recognition of the unawaring greed of Mexican communities of Tema Capolim as Casico and Palmarejo to resist overwhelming oppression and imposition of the state. Good, with other further words, I would like to invite Jonathan to have his presentation. Thank you, Maria, for your kind words and your introduction of my work and myself and then welcome everybody that is coming from all around the world. Thanks a lot for being interested in my research and what I have done in my PhD. Okay, so as Maria already mentioned, so the name of my thesis is called Part of them lost on the value of lost causes in transforming cities and water systems in development pathways. So first of all, like, what do we start? No, we start by something that seems counterintuitive that what are conflicts can have a positive dimension. Is it that possible? Because what are conflicts? They usually have a bad reputation everywhere in the media in many countries. Nobody wants to be in conflict seems like, no, like if you're in conflict personally with your family, with at work or something, people don't like to have this conflict going on. And the common sense that we need to avoid them at all costs because they usually are destructive. Nevertheless, I claim that some conflicts may signal in a birth of problems or symptoms in water systems. The same way happens also at work or even between nations. There is an underlying issue going on that conflict is just the symptom or the presentation of that underlying problem that is going on. So therefore I claim that the water conflicts, they have a generative dimension. So what are conflicts? They are as an emerging symptoms in unsustainable water systems. Therefore conflict as well as crisis, they have an influence on water systems management and evolution. So then the question that is rumbling now is that conflicts understood as critical moments can open windows of opportunity to reform sustainable water systems because then this is what's happening here. Like if a water system is sustainable and is just, then it would never have any sort of conflict going on. Therefore, if water systems are unsustainable and unfair, then this elicits the possibility of having conflicts going on. Then the hypothesis that I tried to prove is that for conflicts to have a generative dimension, then they need to be driven by actors with legitimacy. So this I will try to prove by the end of the presentation. So in my thesis, I tried to have a contribution to the fields of knowledge of political ecology, peace and conflict studies and sociotechnical transitions. So the study and our understanding of what a conflict is is still in its infancy. So this is something that I was really surprised in while I was doing my research is that what a conflict is, we still don't really understand them and conflicts in general as well. But then water conflicts are conceived either as preventable events. Like this is the view of the peace and conflict studies when conflicts can be prevented and we should be able to prevent them or there are a collision of worldviews, values and power to control water flows, which is the idea of political ecology. And just if you'd allow me a little bit, I have a lot of noise and I will just close the window. Yeah, thank you. And these fields of knowledge, they do not relate conflict to social processes and dynamics from the perspective of complex systems that in the long term lead to systemic changes in sociotechnical systems. For example, in this case, urban water systems. So then there is an emerging field of knowledge, for instance, social hydrology that understands that complex systems such as urban water systems is a combination or a coupled system of human and nature and they interact with each other. So then how to think of what are conflicts in this idea of complex system? It is not well understood yet. So I will start by trying to explain what is the position on the perspective of a peace and conflict studies. They claim that there is a direct relationship between an increasingly variable climate that is assumed as the main driver of social environmental conflicts. So then for one of the most important examples or cases that they have used to make this case, they have used the war and the revolution in Syria in 2013 and then they were able to see that there was a trend as you can see in the image above in which the climate has become more variable in the past decades. And then therefore they claim that this variability in climate and the technological regime, it had an impact or it had a causal relationship that caused a water conflict. However, this is a very deterministic approach, as if we humans are incapable of trying to find an agreement and not fall into war or fall into conflict. And the big example of that is precisely the Netherlands. The Netherlands have been for the past five years undergoing a series of droughts and we haven't seen a conflict or much less a war happening. So there's a deterministic approach that we should consider as not acceptable. It also does not address the structural and dynamic social political factors underlying conflicts. But then of course, the situation or the ground truth in Syria was really complex already since for many years before a drought seemed to have triggered this conflict. So then how does a structural and dynamic such a political factors are also interacting with the weather? That is something that has been trying to shed some light on but the still results are really inconclusive. So also the cases are not studied ethnographically. So we have no idea how different actors are having different perspectives. They have different kind of power relationships with other actors. Then it can also not differentiate between the various actors acting at different scales and motivations. This is also related to the ethnographic research. If we don't consider or differentiate actors with different motivations and acting at different scales like a local and national, even international then we don't understand how also the climate can also have an impact locally as well as nationally. There's also not a comprehensive solutions based on good practices because then usually in conflict studies they say like, oh, like you have to have good practices in order to avoid having a conflict in any country. And then however, this may fail to address the unequal conditions that produced the conflict in the first place. This is quite important. Some conflicts are produced by as I mentioned before the structural and dynamic sociopolitical factors that they perhaps they just created the right situation for a country in which the climate just represented as only a trigger of that. But then if we ignore that then any kind of good practices are going to fail. Then because of that, this can depoliticize conflicts because then like no actor have any responsibility they don't bear any responsibility in the conflict because apparently the whole culprit then is the climate. Then depoliticization of conflicts come back fire because they will just reproduce the conflict in the war in the future without addressing the underlying structural and dynamic sociopolitical factors. So then now I want to explain how this relates to the Zapotee project in Mexico. So in a nutshell, I'm going to explain what is the issue that has caused a conflict for the past 20 years in Mexico, which is that two cities, as you can see in the map above, Guadalajara and León painted in blue and in green. They have been experiencing water shortages for the past decades. So they have been experiencing water deficit that is experienced in a way that the local aquifers are overexploited, then also experiencing a way that many regions of the cities, they don't have access to water and 24 hour seven they have intermittent water access. And then what has been the solution proposed by the government? Well, then it was just to create a large scale water project, which is called as a Potillo project. And then you can see that in the map, there's an inverse pyramid there in the green line that represents the Verde river. Then they pretended to have to accumulate water to be able to send it or to do a water transfer all the way to León. And you can see that in the dotted line as well as just to deliver water to Guadalajara via the same course of the river. Then as you can imagine, then so this is an inter-basin water transfer, having water being accumulated in one place and then transfer all the way to two cities that are lying outside of that basin, Guadalajara and León. Then as you can imagine that this water or this infrastructure wasn't well received locally because this infrastructure would mean that at least 600 people would need to be relocated from the homeland as well as the whole region would need to just give up water that is a semi-arid and also happens to be the second largest producer of animal protein in the whole country. And even home of the second largest egg producer in the world. So then you can imagine that this region is economically vibrant and vibrant and then they're supposed to give up their water for these two cities. So then because of that, there was a conflict, a water conflict for 20 years in which the dam was already built at 80 meters as you can see in the picture below, 80 meters height, but then they wanted to continue the construction another 25 meters to 105 meters in total, but then the project was stopped at 80 meters height and then for 15 years having been used. So it has been only half built but never put in use because there was this social conflict present. So in the meanwhile for 15 years, Guadalajana and León having also increased the water deficit because the economy and the population keeps growing and then if they don't have water, then it means that the water deficit keeps increasing. So what happens when the water deficit keeps increasing is that the pressure, the political pressure keeps also increasing and the conflict is getting worse and worse and worse. So to be able to understand the conflict, we need to understand also the uncertainties. So to be able to analyze what the conflicts, we need to analyze the epistemic and social controversies which are the heart and soul of the conflicts, the first uncertainty and controversy as the policies to achieve water security in Guadalajana and León, which means that there is not a given or a comprehensive solution to be able to bring about water security for these two cities because the gamuts of possibilities of solutions, they're huge. So there's not only one possible solution. So the government, they argue that the best way to achieve water security in Guadalajana and León was to build a water supply and meditation project. So increasing the water supply and then the people against this project, they argue that why? Why you haven't considered also demand management? It's also possible. Like it's not that there's a water deficit but that water deficit means that the people are consuming much more water than they should. Yeah, so then just to give you an idea in Guadalajana and León, they are using around 200 liters per day per person when, for example, in the Netherlands there has much more water and they are using 120 liters per person per day. So then you can see that there's a huge room for improvement. For example, the physical losses in the urban water system in both cities is around 30%. 30% of the water goes down the drain. Why? Because the distribution network is so old. We're talking about almost 100 years old but then the faulty pipes are just cracking. And then because the pipes are cracking, then it means that the water pressure cannot be elevated and then that means that there's also water intrusion in pipes, which means that the people are receiving so far water quality in the homes and then they cannot drink it. And therefore also in Mexico, it happens to be the number one consumer of bottled water in the world. Then, so then you can imagine that then this created or this became a huge controversy. Like is this a Poteo project ideal for Guadalajana and León or do we have more other solutions that have a lot of potential as well? So the second uncertainty and controversy is the negative consequences in the donor basin of Los Altos de Jalisco, which is the donor basin, yeah? So then as I mentioned already, then this is a hugely productive region, semi-arid. And then it's now of course experiencing many of the limit change consequences by having variability in the basin. So then this became also a source of controversy because then if you have a lot of variability, would it even be feasible to have a dam that is going to continuously transfer water to cities? Many of the local people, they say, no, the river is dry. Where are you going to get the water to be able to pump it to Guadalajana and León? And then even if there's water, that what should it be for us? To feed the water that is the motor of the economy or Los Altos de Jalisco, which is agricultural. Then of course, there is this social issue that why should these people that are living in the reservoir or the dam, why should they need to be sacrificed in order to provide water for these cities that are not even doing their best in managing their water? But then these two uncertain controversies became crucial in understanding the conflict. So for many years, there was an impasse. There was not going anywhere because then everybody thought, everybody came up with their own data. So now in this era of post-truth, anybody can make their own data and argue for or against something. So in 2017, the government hired UNOPS, which is the United Nations Office for Product Services to enter the fray and be able to develop a water model of the donor basing to test different kinds of scenarios and then try to answer the question if the support to your dam was actually feasible or not. So then they developed, as I mentioned, the whole water model, dynamic water model of the whole region, how much water is raining, how much water is being pumped, how much water is being used, how much water is lost to evapotranspiration, et cetera, et cetera. And then they tested the model with five different kinds of scenarios, testing also different kinds of heights of the dam. So as you can see here, 105 meters for the first scenario, but then fewer water transfer in the second scenario, then the same kind of water volumes being transferred, but with a lower dam at 80 meters height, et cetera. So then in all of the scenarios, they used historic data and current water dynamics here and then only in the fourth one, they used a scenario with climate change and future water demand. But then the one scenario that they were able to optimize in order to find the feasibility of the dam was the scenario number five, in which they've reduced 13% of the water volumes being transferred to Boda La Jala Leon. Why? Because then they realized that some of the data, some of the knowledge that was being bullied by the oppositors of the dam, they were right. There was a higher water demand in the region that was not acknowledged by the water authorities. So then they claim, okay, we have acknowledged that, but you need to decrease the water being transferred, the water flows from the dam to Boda La Jala Leon by 30%. And then you will see that in the coming 60 years, which is the life expectancy of the dam, then it will never become empty for the next 60 years. So then if you just build the dam 105 meters and just reduce 13%, then it's good to go. However, what I did was to request this model from UNOPS, then I replicated these results to be able to understand how the model was built. And what I found was that if you just include limit change and future water demand in the donor region, alas, then the scenario that I found was that the dam gets empty years of usage. That means, so this was a bomb in a conflict because then it showed that of course, if you want to be serious about doing scenarios, developing scenarios, you must include future water demand in the region and you must include limit change in your scenarios. So then when you include the dose, then the dam wasn't feasible at all. So then after three years of work and more than $6 million spent in UNOPS, then the science policy process failed miserably. So then the conflict continued because then nobody believed the results of UNOPS and then the dam was not built at 105 meters in height and then it continued to be stalled, to be stopped and to not be used. So then from this, I gathered some results, which is that the role of science will not be limited to evaluating infrastructure projects, but to critically analyze the water human systems to open the space for decision. Yeah? So then what I found is that if UNOPS will have opened the space for decision it will include some of the other alternatives that had been proposed by the people opposing the project. Then in that way, the conflict may have had a chance to actually be solved because they failed to do that because they only consider the separative dam as the only solution, then its results were not legitimate. So then I proceeded to do exactly what I thought they were missing, which is to understand the system as a whole. So then I want to mention this quotation by Henry David Thorough that I really love. It says, in my brief experience of human life, the external obstacles, if any have not been leaving men but institutions of the dead, it is pleasing to make your way through this last generation as through the deal with covered grass. Men are as innocent as mourning to those who do not suspect. I love humanity, but I hate the institutions of the cruel dead. Men execute nothing so faithfully as the wheels of the dead down to the last cortisol and letter. The rule of this world and the living are about its executors. Even virtue ceases to be such if it is stagnant. A man's life must constantly be as fresh as this river. It must be the same channel, but new water at every moment. This is to us as a path dependency locking systems, feedback mechanisms that generate vicious cycles and ideological devices to keep doing the same resolve the same actions over and over and over, even though they failed to do to help. And I saw this happening in both Leon and Guadalajara. So then I found that there was a supply demand cycle in Guadalajara, which means that a city can no longer be self sufficient in terms of these water supplies because of its constant growth. And then you may think, okay, this is obvious, no? This is obvious because then if the city keeps growing in a small water, yes and no. So the Sepotige project was the continuation of the development path of a large scale water supply and ventilation. And then I found that through a historic research or the city in which what I found was that every time that there was a water supply and ventilation, then the water demand increase artificially. How was I able to understand this by locking together the water use and the population proportionally. So you can see that in the first 40 years, since 1908 until 1950, the population and the water demand are growing together. So as far as there, then the theory is compliant, no? It's common sense, more people, more water is needed. But then when the city start to develop new water supply systems or new water supply sources, then the dynamics of water use and population they are uncoupled. So in 1956, when the city introduced the water transfer from Malake, then you can see that the water demand started to increase and the water demand is the blue line. So the water demand started to increase artificially and uncoupled from the growth of population. Then this trend just continue over the years while more and more water supply sources incorporated into the system. And then you can see that in the years that the city was experiencing water shortages, which is around the 90s and 2000s, then is when the water use started to become closer to the natural growth of the population. So then with the support to your project, then the expected water use was going to be expected to increase by almost 20 points, yeah? In that way, to continue the trend of increasing separation between water use, water demand and population, meaning that there is an unexpected consequence of building more and more water supply sources is that people consider that there is more water and because there's more water, I can use much more. And then I realized that every time that the government would present or develop a new water source, they were always saying, this water source is going to guarantee water for the city forever. We will never need a new one. And what happens after 15, 20 years, we need a new one because they would never expect that the people, the population, would increase the water supply, I mean, sorry, they would increase the water demand artificially. So then there is a paradox of increasing water supply in the cycle of the water supply and demand. So there is again a coupled system in the water system. So it means that there's a water shortage. Whenever there's a water shortage, there's an economic damage. So there is this translate pressure, more public pressure becomes or is translated into an increasing reservoir storage, which also increases the water supply. And then the government, they only consider the blue cycle. If we have more water supply, then we will solve the issue of water shortages. What they don't understand is that this creates unexpected consequence of increasing artificially the water demand and by creating the water demand, they will also ensure that in the future there will be a water shortage. And this creates or makes the cities be dependent as well as vulnerable for economic damage because then they have already built the water demand, but they don't have any more sources for any extra supply sources for water supply. So then by building this up with the UTAM, it also meant that in the future, they will no longer be able to supply water to this artificially or create water demand for water handling. So then what happened? After the fiasco of UNOPS in 2023, there was a plan to retrofit the Sepoteo dam and to, as you can see in the last picture, they were able to crack open six windows of 12 meters by 12 meters in depth. Why? Because then the conflict was resolved. The conflict was resolved in a way that it protected the communities that were going to be relocated because of the dam while still being able to reduce its water transfer to only Guadalajara. So what happened? What I claim is that, so the new always happens against the overwhelming also of statistical laws and the probability, which for all practical everyday purposes amount to certainty. The new therefore always appears in the guise of a miracle. This is a quote I love because then it almost felt like a miracle. How did it happen? That this dam was able to be retrofitted and the communities were able to win this whole conflict. So then I want to unravel these guise of a miracle. So what happened was that in 2018 after I replicated the results of UNOPS, then I also refurbished the model to be able to do what UNOPS was unable to do, which is to create new different water alternatives or new water solutions for the dam, and I'm sorry for the cities for Guadalajara and León. So then I incorporated in the model all of the different kind of alternatives that the oppositors of the dam were proposing for the past 15 years, which is like for example, to install water harvesting systems in both cities to be able to also have water, sorry, to buy the water rights from farmers to be able to use that water sources instead of the farmers, to be able to fix the leakages in the system. And then in that way I invited all of the key actors in the conflict to do participatory modeling and then to let them play this water model by also developing a user interface that would be user friendly. So that the people that don't have experience or are not technical, they will also be able to just click easy steps in the user interface and then develop their own scenarios. They were able to test different kind of scenarios and then see how it would happen in the future, like what would be efficient, what would be feasible, what not. And then they were able to in this workshop to compare the results also with the government, also with the communities, also with the farmers, and then they will have a new understanding of the system as well as a new proof that there is more alternatives than only a dam. So then what happened was that after this workshop, then many of the social actors that were trying to prove their case, that there's alternatives to the dam, then finally they had the proof available and then they started a campaign, a social campaign and communication campaign, saying like, hey, we need to look away from the dam. The dam is not feasible and is even dangerous because it makes the cities to be vulnerable to droughts and hydroclimatic changes. So then what I found is that this vicious cycle that I showed you before can be broken, can be broken by the same actions and advocacy of actors by developing alternative, alternative development pathways that could contribute to opening up the decision space and then have an uncertain outcome and also be able to reduce the water demand as well as increase the water supply. And because now we're conscious, we're aware of this cycle and we can design solutions to avert this cycle. So then there's a difficulty to understand change. How change functions.  So then what I found was that we need to unpack the social capitals from social movements as agents of change in coupled water human systems. It means that people have different kinds of skills which are called social capitals because then you can put a capital to reproduce itself. So actors in water conflicts, they own different kind of capitals understood as intangible dudes put to reproductive juice. So they have social capital which is the legitimacy if different actors can see the social movement as legitimate, as an legitimate actor. It means that the people will listen more to them. Then they also increase their technical capital which is knowledge. And then in that way, I see Delft through my project as well as the support of my two supervisors, Peter van der Sar and Noda van Cowenberg, we were able to develop knowledge that would also increase the technical capital of the movement. This also increased the relational capital which is network. So then because of Aisin, we also supported the movement to also have different kinds of relationships. For example, with the consultancy firms in Switzerland to be able to have a better comprehension of the dam and to propose to drill all these seven windows into the dam because they became spillways. Then economic funding which they found in actors living in the United States, people who migrated from Mexico to the United States they were able to have more funding because of that and then support the movement as well as legal capital which legal strategy can yield a better result than human rights. So during the conflict, they accumulated these capitals by implementing different strategies to achieve their interest. Then I was able to map how these capitals were evolved throughout the conflict. And then you can see that in the first period of the conflict which is in 2005, then the capitals of the agents of the social movement was quite small because then they just were just literally only farmers. So they only have a little bit of legitimacy and relational capital. Well, the government, they had a huge capital. They could do everything with it. So that's why they were able to build a dam for the coming five years. But then in those five years, the actors, the social movements, they didn't remain idle. They kept working to develop their capitals. Then in that way, they started a campaign, a legal campaign that would prove successful to stop the dam legally because of certain factors of, they were able to argue that this would affect the human rights. And because of that, they were able to stop this dam. They also increased their social capital, their legitimacy, as well as increase also their economic capital. Then in the third period, there was a political formation, they were able to understand the different strategies to navigate the political system in Mexico. And then to also start gaining more legitimacy and also some technical capital. But then you can see that because of that, the government, they hired UNOPs and then they were still having the higher hand in the conflict by trying to solve the conflict through signage. However, in the last period, so we're talking about since 2019, all the way to 2022, that the social movement was able to accumulate much more capital than the coalition for supporting for the Zepoteo project. And it was in that moment, when they were able to convince the president of Mexico to carve all these six windows into the dam and support the cause of the social movement to avoid any kind of cost in being relocated. So then for the future, will the cities will be able to seize the opportunity to transition to an inclusive and sustainable urban water system? Or will they not be able to resist the temptation to execute the mandato or the death by repeating again temporary solutions based on large infrastructures? The coin is tossed, we are at the crossroads that will take us to two completely opposite destinations. But for now, the fortune seems to be smiling to the communities that they are aiming to not be relocated and to keep their ancestral land untouched and now it is still a time for uncertainty but it seems like for now, the supply demand cycle has been temporarily disrupted. So because of this, we were able to find that the scientists, they have not only a mandate to produce science, but also to produce actionable science that can have an impact social. So thank you very much. This is the end of my presentation and I'm really open to any questions and have a nice discussion with all of you. Thanks a lot. Thank you very much, Jonathan. And I will share my screen if I can to just start with the first questions that the first one comes from Professor Gopal Kumar from India and the question is, was there no AEA conducted before sanctioning of the El Sapatishu project by Mexico government? Thank you for the question. Let me see. Can you see my screen? No, I cannot see your screen. Okay, let's see what happened. Okay. Now? Yes, I can see it now. Yes, perfect. So what was the environmental impact assessment conducted? Yes, there was environmental impact assessment. However, the problem was that it was a really biased environmental impact assessment because they only made this assessment on the area of the reservoir. So this means that they only consider an environmental impact assessment in a very contained area that did not include the whole of the basin. So then because of that, then they were able to just comply with the law but not really understand the meaning of the law because the meaning of the law is that if the project was going to cause any irreversible damage to the environment but then they only consider the small hectares contained within the reservoir but did not include the whole of the basin. So this was also a contentious part of the conflict. Very good. And Hassan Mohamed would like to know how to solve water scarcity and run water depletion. Thanks for the question, Hassan. I can imagine that you were asking this question for the specific case that I mentioned. And then I can, I would say that the question perhaps is not, it's not the right question to ask because then I think the question is what is causing water scarcity? So if water scarcity is being caused by an overdraft and by artificial created point of demand. So imagine that we have the water demand of 1,000 liters per day per person. Then the question is not how to supply water to this person who is having this huge water demand but the question is like, isn't that too much? So then perhaps the water scarcity is being caused by a large water demand and we shouldn't be thinking only with the eyes of the water supply and just create more water supply sources because then it's just unsustainable. So then the groundwater depletion is also a cause of the huge water demand that is present in these regions. So the question is not to think to replace the water source but to be able to see if there's a space for water demand management, I think. Thank you, Jonathan. And Samar Mahmoud requests, when considering the future water demand and climate change in your assessment, did you estimate it based on current demand patterns and physical losses or assume better water management strategies? Could you elaborate more on the climate change factors considered? Thanks for the question, Samar. So then there are two moments of my research. One in which I consider future water demand and climate change only to prove that the study of UNOPs, they didn't consider them. So then what I did was to replicate the results, also introducing future water demand and climate change. And then in the second moment, I also introduced better water demand, sorry, better water management strategies as the one I mentioned, which is that, okay, like if in these cities, it's raining almost 800 millimeters per year, then it's possible also to just capture this water as a new water source that is just currently being wasted and just flowing into the sewers. So then, of course, in this second moment, I just included climate change and also included future water demand just to be able to have a better understanding of how the scenarios would play out considering these two variables. Thank you very much. And Masny Ditta-Angriani, would like to know how did you measure the social capital, political capital and other capitals quantitatively? Thank you, Masny. This is a really super good question. This was a really difficult, a difficult methodological obstacle that we faced in the research. So then, because we saw, like we were able to see in our story of 18 years, that there has been a change in the way the actors were deploying their strategies and the way they were perceived by other actors. So then the question was like, qualitatively we were able to see that it was a difference in the capitals and their skills. The question was how to do it quantitatively. So then what we decided was to be able to structure the conflict in four periods and then just to be able to see if it has been like crucial changes in the way that the different capitals were used and deployed in the conflict and then to see if they have been more or less in the new conflict period. And then by doing so, we were able to say like, okay, like in the new period the capital was more. We just don't decide how much more. We just say like, okay, one point more or one point less. And then in that way, in the four periods, we were able to see like this really nice evolution of the capitals that also coincided well with how the each in each period, each conflict period, there was winning or losing for the two groups of actors. So, but indeed this is a really good question. And in my, I have an upcoming article that is about to be published. We acknowledge that this is something that still needs to be discussed in the future. How to quantitatively be able to assess the capitals of the actors. And we think that perhaps for further research, a new method could be the Delphi method, which is based on having an interview with key actors and ask them, what do they think is their expert opinion on how the capitals are evolving over time. But yeah, I think it's a really good question. Thank you for your question. There are a few questions on the chat. And Ellen Barbosa, sorry, a Tena, a Godlin line, and requests, if you have considered the environments, let it be made to water use right. Yes, indeed. Thank you for the question in the participatory modeling that I designed and that I developed. One of the options was for the actors to be able to prioritize the environment. So in that sense, to be able to, in any kind of scenario, to be able to assure that the environmental flows would be compliant, and then of course, this is actually by law, that any kind of water development should have environmental flows considered. So in that way, the actors, they were able to just click on that option in the user interface to be able to make sure that the environment is taken care of. And then if they wouldn't do that, then explain why with the other actors, but they let everybody comply, I mean, this is the law, and this is something that we want to achieve. Thank you, Jonathan. And we are reaching our end time of this conversation, but for the ones who had to leave, you are no problem, leave the room, but I will take a few minutes more to just say a comment and an extra question, but not before saying thanks to Jonathan for the excellent presentation. There's a lot of excellent comments for you, Jonathan. Thank you very much. Also to announce that in November, we are going to have our next online seminar that will be informed in the webpage of IHE Delph and also send the invitation through social media and by email to all alumni. And of course, thank you very much for your constant participation. The video will be available on IHE Delph's YouTube channel and also will be sent to all persons who have registered for this event. But before closing, I would like to read a comment of Wangala Ba Saha. Sorry for my pronunciation. That is an MSc, alumnus of water management's 2016-18 that he said that I think, I quote, the implementation of the dam was done much faster than the involvement of the community. That's why they are convincing the community to be relocated when the project is already on the ground. Would you like to comment, Jonathan? Yes, thank you, Wangala indeed. So they didn't consider, or the authorities didn't consider to involve the communities into the decision-making. So then they had already made a decision to build this dam before they even started to do the social work of contacting the communities and to involve them in the decision-making process. So then, of course, it was also a really bad decision for the authorities because they just created a lot of animosity against the project and against the authorities. And even though there was a lot of pressure from the authorities for the communities to accept this as a don't deal, and then this just made the communities so angry so against the project, that they, I think they give them a lot of strength to just say like, hey, we have human rights and you are just trampling them. You need to give us informed processes to know what's going on and then give us the chance to also have a say in this project and they didn't give it to them. So indeed, because of trying to hurry up the project, they actually just trampled the project and then created this conflict that lasted for 20 years, indeed. Thank you very much. Jonathan, so I'm going to go to the last questions of, of who was that? Of, of, of, of. Oh my God, I cannot find it. Who wrote it? But I did not understand. He says exactly, my cursor is not doing well. Sorry. I did not understand exactly what is causing such a high water demand of 200 liters a day to such a point of conflict. Also, when you talk of 200 liters, this is how much water is used or available? So I think the question can be answered by many, it's not only one answer, but it's many factors that are involved in this really high number. So one of them, as I mentioned is that the cities, they have 30, 40% of physical losses in the network. So this, so if you, if you rest these two, more than 200 liters per day per person, 40% only physical losses, then you already have an answer to that. But also another answer is just that the authorities, when they think they have a lot of water, and then they start approving any kind of development, economic development and also trying to increase the population of the city, because there's a lot of internal migration in Mexico. So I think it's happening everywhere, like the rural areas are just going into the cities. And then if the cities are using like, yes, yes, yes, let's grow, let's grow, let's grow, then you're also artificially increasing the water demand. You cannot say no to any water demand. And then of course, there's the psychological part of water use that then if whenever people, they say like, oh, you know, like we have a new water supply. And then everybody's saying that this is the answer, that this is the ultimate answer to the water security of the city. Then people are just using more water, like because they think that the water is endless. And this is promoted by the government. They say water forever, literally, like over the course of 50 years with every new water source, they say this is water forever. So then it just creates this image in the people that this water is literally forever when it is not. And then they create a lot of water demand because of that. Well, thank you very much, Jonathan, for your excellent work, excellent presentation. I think we all have enjoyed that. There is a lot of comments in the chat. And I will close this seminar of today saying, sans for the interests and all the people who have registered and let us stay in touch. And of course, if you would like to send more questions to Jonathan, do not hesitate to send it to me or to Jonathan that you can see his profile and contact details on the webpage of IHEDELF. Thank you very much to all and hope to welcome you in the seminar of November. Thank you very much. Thank you very much, Maria and everybody.


DNA is the code of instructions that makes you, you. The human body has about 50 trillion cells, and each cell contains the same exact copy of your DNA. If all the DNA in your body was lined up end-to-end, it would stretch from Earth to Jupiter 100 times over. By 2003, the arduous task of writing down all the letters in the human genome was completed, three billion pairs of chemicals known by the letters A, C, T, and G. To me, the genome is three billion separate stories. Every letter in the human genome has a story. Sometimes it's a story about history, sometimes it's a story about medicine, sometimes it's a story about deep evolution. It's an amazing set of stories, and so no one story is what excites me about the human genome.  Each of us has this book, and we share about 99.9% of the exact same letters. But it's that tiny bit of difference that makes our individual biographies so compelling. For me, one of the exciting results is that it breaks down any traditional notions of race. There aren't three, five, ten human races, but rather there's this beautiful continuum. It turns out characteristics we thought were genetically straightforward are not. For example, the genetic code for blonde hair in the Solomon Islands is different from the code for blonde hair in California. And there's more variation on average between the genomes of two people from different regions of Africa than between an African and a European. The way our DNA works is a constant revelation. Scientists used to think that as much as 97% of our genome served no direct purpose in how our bodies functioned, it was dismissed as junk. You didn't need them. It wasn't obvious what they did. They weren't coding for proteins. It must be junk. Turns out that a lot of it's not junk. And a lot of it plays a very important role in choreographing what our genes do. Another huge surprise was the total number of genes encoded by our DNA. Because human beings are such a complex species, scientists initially thought we might have as many as 100,000 genes. It turns out we only have about 20,000. Compare that to rice with upwards of 50,000. Every day, scientists around the world are discovering new ways to make sense of the DNA book of life. It's a journey that has just begun. I often will say that truly interpreting the human genome sequence will take many decades to fully accomplish. I'm convinced my children will be interpreting the human genome sequence. My children's children and maybe even generations beyond that.


Welcome back. Our final panel is on cultural heritage protection in the maritime environment. As a reminder, all conference materials are available for download at the bottom of the events page. There's an agenda and the full bios of everyone who has participated. We will go straight into our final panel for today. It is my great pleasure to welcome back Dr. Chris just Barrow is moderator for this panel. He is a formal naval officer, a fellow of the Royal Geographical Society, and currently a professor in the National Security Affairs Department at the Naval War College. He serves as the Jerome Levy chair of economic geography. I'm your geographer and archaeologist with over 25 years of experience specializing in environmental security, cultural heritage protection, and African and Asian regional geography and transnational security issues. As my co organizer, this panel in particular was his priority for the entire event. And I'm really looking forward to the selection of speakers he has for it. Dr. Just Barrow. I invite you to commence your panel. Good morning and thank you Andrea. So for our last panel, we'll look at issues of exploitation and protection of cultural heritage in the maritime domain. As we heard from our keynote speaker there are a variety of areas where maritime cultural heritage issues intersect with human security issues at sea as well as broader strategic issues. And with human security in general attention to it at sea has lagged behind that of on land but progress is being made and as you'll see we have speakers from three allied navies who will look at different angles of the problem and hopefully give us a sense of where things are going. Our first speaker is commander Andy chill of the Royal Navy. He's a naval commando specializing in human trade analysis and training and mentoring of local forces. He also holds master's degrees from the London School of Economics and Kings College London. Currently he's leading the Royal Navy's contributions to the UK's defense human security project so without further ado I'll turn it over to Andy. Thanks very much Chris I'm just going to share my screen you let me know when you can see and hear me okay. Good morning and good afternoon to everybody who's attending it's been a real pleasure listening in and I've learned a lot. These sort of events are really critical to sort of cooperation but also to our national development in this area. For this panel I'm really pleased to be going first, as I can be a bit of a scene set to try and situate where cultural property sits within human security for the Royal Navy. Also I'm most definitely the least venerable of the panel speakers so you'll forgive me my academically lightweight points but I'll stick to the representation of the process of applying human security themes within an operational level battle staff within a navy. So very briefly to describe the UK journey and as a few other contributors have already mentioned, we've been, we've been through this process of taking a fairly nebulous academic concept of complimentary freedoms and dependencies, how that links to instabilities and then had to process those through both UN and NATO interpretations with their own lenses to the start of the UK human security agenda, including cultural property, which for the UK commenced really with the 2000 Security Council Resolution on Women, Peace and Security because the UK holds the pen for that and it remains a priority agenda item for our foreign Commonwealth and Development Office. But there's more to be understood about vulnerabilities of cultures as everybody here knows you know the values and under representation of the values of cultures and the under representation of women and children is symptomatic of other fragilities and we're coming along on this ride of sort of exploring further where the fault lines lie within communities and where that influences military operations where military operations influence that. So, where we're at now in the UK, having taken this sort of ponderous walk since 2000, I would apologize for this slide but the kind of the complexities the point we've, I've stolen, by the way this grid here from an army colleague, but we've, we've taken the challenges of interpreting a range of concepts and trying to set on something that works for us so it has to meet our UN NATO and partnership obligations. So we're going to go down that process now with this year sees the second policy addition for human security, describing a broad umbrella term, which has allowed us to identify how we interpret those seven factors plus one because we've added in information security, and how we've aligned those with the NATO cross cutting themes, but is also sovereign to us and works with our sovereign operations. And also what will in terms of policy that's great so we've got we've got fairly mature policy now, but we do still need to, there's a lot more work that needs to be done to understand how we apply that. It's yet to be human security and cultural property protection cultural vulnerabilities are yet to be standard vernacular at the operational level. Basically, there's an imperative to get on with it which is, which is great and quite right to, but what that means is that we're sort of retrospectively building our understanding and our, you know, there's all important real case studies in vignettes that help us explain tactical application of human security with building those through existing operations and those the most simplest way of doing that for us has been predominantly through the sort of mission imperative of Afghanistan, more recently recently years Afghanistan and then operations that we have in Mali for example, and unless so some of the maritime examples because they, they are sort of in perpetuity running. So, so the Navy doesn't yet have quite such a clear understanding but it but it's growing. The argument I would make is, is that we would probably put issues such as children and armed conflict protection civilians sex and gender based violence, whilst absolutely critical to the international community don't mean so much to a cohort of mariners for example delivering our strategic deterrence. But those self same submariners or crews of the new carrier strike groups that we send out on an annual basis are still contributing to human security via that sort of maritime security that we've already been talking about. And they have therefore opportunities to enhance the overall stability, and that's that may be more likely to be through cases of human trafficking as we just discussed sexual exploitation and abuse and enhancing the understanding of what that actually means. And what brings us here today, or to this panel I should say is how issues of cultural property protection matter in the maritime. So trying to situate then human security in the maritime domain and with a maritime force, we have a fairly well established paradigm which we are now pushing to broaden. And that involves answering a number of questions. What risks and opportunities live for maritime in the cultural narrative and concept of individual vulnerabilities and community vulnerabilities. What types of operations matter most and how do they matter. And whilst I take a couple of speakers points from yesterday about the distinction between kinetic operations and then the everything else sort of pre and post kinetic, where human security perhaps is more relevant. Disaster relief operations being a really, really sort of central target in that sense, but there are more ways that we could understand human security and cultural property. Underwater heritage and cultural property is a really good demonstration of that in fact. So, the UK going through sort of a defense transformation program, some of the modern warfare themes, such as the total deterrence concept modern deterrence concepts and return to strategic commando rating. All bring issues of cultural respect understanding protection, as well as concepts of UK cultural vulnerabilities to the four. And the hate convention obliges us to know about cultural property. And there's one of my, one of my colleagues he knows a lot more about cultural property than me, often puts it decisions of what to break and what not to break and how we could avoid breaking things but but also where does cultural property sit in the battle for sub threshold advantage. And what does it imply for items of sort of cultural totems and items of high value. So on the left of our, we could say that we start with traditional protection of UK cultural property within territorial waters where the task is clear, relatively, but it's left to a random mix of UK enforcement agencies, and then more problematically in international waters, where the different laws or lack of and patchy application of the uncloss all make the issue more problematic. Our resources and advocates are spread thin. So cultural property of the UK state such as warships may translate to vulnerabilities perhaps. And towards the right of our can perhaps more innovatively acknowledging the, the outstanding work by the Royal Canadian Navy in this area is understanding the role of the cultural property is totally points in issues of strategic narrative and establishing where that sits in the information campaigns of our adversaries, where is it being exploited within sub threshold disruption. And the atomic steel for example in the South China Seas means that we're losing cultural artifacts ostensibly due to economic pressures. But actually, this this loss suits the wider narrative of an of a regional hegemon. So today, Australian dutch and I think that US Java sea wrecks are now almost all gone and closer to home, and in keen focus for a Navy which is about to take over the maritime NATO response force duty in January. We're well aware that in the Baltic, there are German wrecks being looked at in inverted commas by various diving groups with nationalist associations. So the journey there with human security and cultural property is a really fundamental issue of cultural sensitivity has brought us to the point of trying now to operationalize human security with some tactical level doctrine and it's time really for us to get writing which is where as I said at the start these collaborations and partnerships so valuable so thank you everybody's thoughts. I think we need to find his way more into the Royal Navy DNA it is getting there, and a better understanding of what we can do to a further sorry stories like that of HMS repulse shown here on the left, and then shown on the right, or not shown as it's steadily being taken from us by salvages and looters from its final resting place and the resting place of hundreds of British sailors. And that's, that's what I have to really start the conversation. I'd be delighted to join into the panel. Thank you. I have commander ponos trip and take us from the Hellenic Navy, who, in addition to be in a surface officer with command at sea experience is also a author and cultural heritage researcher and specialist he's presently serving as a staff officer in the Department of Information and Environmental Protection for the Hellenic Republic's Ministry of Defense. So, on us. Yes, Chris. Thank you very much for presenting me. I want to thank a US neighbor world college and Andrea for the invitation. It's, it's a privilege and fills me with honor. I've heard, you know, I have a disclaimer also that this presentation presents my perspective for the underwater heritage of Hellenic Navy. And having heard all these presentations, the day yesterday and today reminds me, reminds me just a moment. Oh, I can. Okay, it reminds me what the world is they said our heritage and ideas are called the standards that things we live by and teach our children are preserved or diminished by how freely we've changed ideas and feelings and this is what we are doing now. To give you another perspective of protection of cultural heritage is what your use a fairies said to one of the most important reports of the 20th century. I think a piece from the past is likely raising a piece from the future. I have an holistic approach, shaping our mindset on both cultural heritage and natural. It's the basic perception that cultural heritage and nature viewed viewed as indivisible and not revolutionary. Let's have a quick peek here in the slide that you can see Greece, both nature and culture environment. We have forty four six areas in Greece that belongs to Natura 2000 network together with the important marine mammal areas and we have also the other water heritage of Hellenic Navy the milestone starts in 1953 where the state of degree that was issued defines that the ownership of all shipwrecks of warships and then the other is given to the shareholding Navy's fun. We have war materials such as warplanes as I said, helmets, tanks, whatever is given to the shareholding Navy's funds, which is a legal entity subject to public law and that is the supervision of the Hellenic Ministry of National Defense via the Hellenic Navy general staff. And each aim is the development and decrement of the funds property property, movable and the movable. The second milestone in 2002 is the law about antiquities and the cultural heritage in general, which is the most comprehensive and methodical law legislation on archaeological matters. And then we have one ministerial decision that changed everything in 2003 and following the minister of cultural decision the Rex we mentioned before the date of seeking of which and the page the decision by 50 years were designated as cultural asset so all the other water heritage of Hellenic Navy is a cultural asset to see what is a cultural asset. It's the touchable evidence of the existence of man and of his individual and collective activities comes under the definition of cultural assets. However, those wrecks reveal to us acts of courage and facts that significantly change the course of history. So I will start saying that all the actions taken by the Hellenic Navy comes from the new environment, not the new revised environmental energy climate change adaptation policy of Hellenic Ministry of National Defense, where you can download it through the site green .gr. Over there the fields of interest is all these that are big in the slide but I will stay only in cultural heritage, where we have to secure the integrity of locations with historical and cultural heritage from military activities. We have to leave the possible impact on monuments during the planning and execution stage of works and activities, serving the aims of national defense, promote after proper recording restoration and maintenance the means buildings and areas of historical and cultural importance under the ownership of the armed forces. We have to inform all the, we have to inform about all the areas of historical and cultural importance in order to ensure that military operations can be carried out with the least possible damage to the historical and natural environment. So the top priority for Hellenic Ministry of National Defense is to map the areas of historical and cultural importance in all pre-existing electronic products of the Hellenic military geographical service, and the Hellenic military geographical service, thus providing detailed information about protected areas of national, European and global importance to all potential users. practitioners and we need to know, we need to use a tool to see where we are going, so the notical charts are the unique tools that connect people without natural and cultural heritage. These are the means that they can influence not only the operational officers that they're working on operations but also the public. These are the means of implementing the relevant administrative decisions facilitating the work of the Hellenic Coast Guard, preventing the execution of illegal activities such as illegally retrieval of objects from domestic or international antiquities ganks. And let's see the wrecks now from a different, we have to see the wrecks from a different perspective because as I said before, those wrecks reveal to us acts of courage and facts that significantly change the course of history. This heritage is of great importance for forming our identity, our historical continuity and the self-determination within the historical becoming. This legacy evokes great emotions and linked to national, regional and local tradition or intouchable heritage which is passed down from generation to generation providing a sense of identity and continuity and thus promoting respect for cultural diversity and human creativity. This heritage constitutes the bridge that connects the elements of cultural heritage between the past and the present and of course it is an undeniable value that strengthens the cultural identity of our society. We know of course that the climate is changing and this is a challenge and the challenge is that the impacts are not always visible to us. Every challenge of course is an opportunity. Talking about challenges, talking about the possible impact of climate change on other water heritage and we are talking about the second world war one and two naval vessels. Most of these ships are made of rusting metal, steel, hauled armaments, vast quantities of oil, etc. and the temperature, the increasing of temperature, salinity and of course acidification change the way that changes the sea makes it hotter and more acidic and of course shipwrecks are deteriorating and maybe loss of cultural heritage, environmental disaster is inevitable. So we have an initiated Hellenic Minister of National Defence together with Ecositi and the DRS Hotel University of Thessaloniki. We have a two-year project started one month ago. The acronym is Monuments and Risk and has to do with the climate change and the effects upon those heritage sites and another MOU between Hellenic Ministry of National Defence and the IS Hotel University of Thessaloniki has to do in particular with documentation of all these shipwrecks lying down in the Hellenic seas due to an emerging need for Hellenic Navy to study and preserve its submerged cultural resources. Discovering and mapping this part of our naval heritage and history can help us rediscover ourselves because at the end, culture is not the privilege of only one but it is open and has to be open to everyone. Being proactive is not enough. If the box is nearby then it is still an obstacle to open thinking. We've heard thinking beyond the obvious it's a way to move forward but I strongly believe that we have to think the obvious because over there we can fight the solution. We have to think simple. Of course we need to join effort, cooperation, communication and public outreach with public sectors, private sectors, universities, diving community and of course nations. Two key points is that we have to educate and develop the next generation adaptable leaders in order to fully understand the complexity and what is culture for us. We have also to enhance and promote military-open science meaning that we have to involve one forces in general in scientific endeavor that generates new knowledge and deeper understanding. Of course a collaboration between Sainte and Saint-Anne forces and navies who are concerned and motivated to make a difference anyone can participate. We have to use the same protocol with the scientists so data can be combined and be high quality and of course as yesterday a lot of panelists said we have to share data to which the public as well as the scientists can have access. That concludes my briefing. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you very much. You managed to fit a lot of big themes and a small presentation so that is a work of art and particularly appreciate you hitting some of the bigger themes of the conference in terms of the need for militaries to engage with communities which is not necessarily our natural habit as well as bringing the environmental dimension into the discussion. So we have all our panelists on board now so let's start some questions and please keep sending them into the chat. First question is for Andy is what what is the primary purpose of the UK's human security project? Is it is it policy and how does it aim to translate into the operational arena? Very good question. It's the second iteration of the policy that makes that clear actually having operated on one for a couple of years somebody thought it'd be worth articulating what it's all for. I won't remember what it is verbatim but it's effectively this is about better operational outcomes particularly in this sort of era of multi-domain integration and the UK's integrated review that we've just been through. It's not about improving the military operation it's about improving the influence and effect that we have using every lever. So the overall outcome is a better operation and better effect overseas and better defensive of what we have as UK sovereign assets but the trick is convincing every lever of power that they have to understand each other's motivations because this is human security is of everything I've looked at and I'm sure there'll be people that agree of every concept of security and sort of conceptual debate we've had this is probably one of the least defined or the most pan-government concepts that we've come across. So it's not just a case of convincing defence what they need to achieve it's convincing defence how they need to support the foreign office and the Department for Trade and the Department for Transport and the Department of International Development as well and vice versa but better operational outcome in one line. Great thank you a related question would be you know in terms of if we look at the informational aspect of the problem you know in terms of what how navies can prepare to to work in this environment what do they need you know is it just have concepts in doctrine is it new new types of people or new capabilities and you know what what other agencies should should be involved because it's something that clearly involves navies but it's sort of out of the you know realm of things that navies traditionally do and this is for all the panelists. Can I answer first can I try to answer first please I totally agree first of all with what Commander Andrew said or Andrew let's say but I think it's a very difficult problem for the defence to solve because we are dealing with a situation that we don't know the the potential yet we still we are wondering what climate change what are the climate change impacts first of all of operations so we need to deeply understand what is culture and that is why I said before that we have to change let's say the protocol that we are working for the next leadership because the the practitioners for example in Greece that they are now the commanding officers they are going to be the the leaders in 10 years from now on and those leaders they have to to be adaptable they they need to understand in order to in order to take the the best decision and we are talking about the decision making process I think it's a very difficult situation now it's evolving and first of all I think that we we need to change the way that the leaders are thinking it needs a general overview of the situation and it needs to have a deeper understanding I mean we need to understand what biodiversity for example means we need to understand what one degree Celsius means in when we are operating with submarines that is that going to affect us on transmission loss for example can this have an effect and affect an impact on my operation so great thank you Andy or Dan do you have anything well I mean I would add in a sort of a quite procedural problem that we're facing in the UK at the moment is that a sort of hinted asset in the presentation for the for navies to be able to do something about this the strategic demand signal has to be explicit because we we deploy on operations of maritime security or disaster relief or power projection defense engagement whatever the vernacular is in your respective country but within that you know we don't we don't have that freedom of movement to just interpret human security objectives as we go and it's not the people are reversed to it but it's just not in the specified tasks and it's and it's not yet implied strongly enough so we need integration with partners with international partners to make explicit requests that can be fed in you know over to course of time and that takes a while to get there which I believe it will but be nice if it's a bit faster thank you if Daniel yes for that the integration I will give you a very simple example a very simple example I mean if the effort rate of underwater antiquities in Greece doesn't inform me about the underwater sites in order to to place them in the nautical charts then probably Andrew with his vessel is going to anchor above the romanian gallery and destroy the monument it's the simple way you know to think so the integration the integration means that not only us as militaries has to have to understand how the other ministries work but the other ministries need to know what means we have in order to help them to influence via nautical charts for example or geographical charts about the monuments it's a very simple example great thank you um and so it's you know it's challenging in our own waters but many countries seem to have at least domestic structures to start doing these things but it's much more complicated when we're talking overseas and in international waters and contested spaces uh two questions that are related so I'll put them together mainly for Andy and Dan first do you have any other examples of exploitation of maritime cultural heritage by actors like Russia and China and also why are the java sea wrecks so valuable and what might some of the strategic or geopolitical implications be of this kind of activity um I you know I'm noting the question in the in the sidebar there uh you know what what do we gain um I think if you talk about cultural heritage as an isolated um as an isolated example uh other than sort of the the the moral you know the moral issue it it's hard on its own perhaps to to understand other than there's an opportunity and to get to go on the front foot before there's sort of an information campaign against us but also heritage is just another part of wider cultural discussion and of course that is key sort of that's the key battleground and a lot of the whatever you want to call it hybrid activity or sub threshold activities so heritage is just one component the other component is diaspora rights you know and and um other anything that is ostensibly of value to a group is something that can be contested now and so underwater underwater heritage is is just one of those angles and we don't uh I would suggest that it doesn't make it the the key battleground but it's one of them and we need to understand what that means before it becomes something that is exploited against us uh Chris may yes yes okay I will try also to answer the questions that I have seen in in the chat so what we gain we gain our identity I mean I will have to reply with a question why do we have to save acropolis monument and why not try to save the underwater heritage is a part of our culture and with the project I mentioned before monuments and trees we combine together both environmental information in the shipwreck and also what is the situation of the shipwreck in order to to try to to preserve it because one way or another those monuments are open to the public with some restrictions so first of all we need to show to the public to the diving community because we are talking about economics that we are dealing with also with our identity so I believe we gain a lot of things also we gain ourselves because we have a deeper understanding of our understanding of our you know battles that we have given and it's the only way to move forward great thank you all for those answers yeah there's you know a need to take a multi-faceted look at these problems there's the strategic angle which you know is really not about wrecks or not but about controlling terrain basically and winning there's the identity issues the economic issues I mean cultural tourism is is about the biggest sector of tourism and underwater tourism can be particularly high value so if it's managed correctly there is a financial as well as identity incentives there's also in terms of post-conflict rehabilitation of combatants we have projects where for example U.S. special operations veterans are being trained in underwater archaeology both as part of recovery process from combat but also to to train a new post-military skill so it's a very big issue if you look at all the pieces another question we have for Panos is the the reserves that Greece has set up that are both environmental and heritage protected areas that seems to be an interesting model that can be applied more broadly around the world has there been any cooperation with Greece and other countries in developing these type of sanctuaries it's something that started a few years ago and of course we have to to work with other nations for this and that panel is making a good work to achieve this because it helps us to come to know people from other nations and discuss it and to see what other nations are doing and help us to work better in a more efficient way it's it's a very difficult situation and you know the most important thing is to to understand what is a culture okay the most important issue great thank you are there any more questions or anything that the panelists would like to add that they didn't get a chance to to address previously okay good well we are near the the end of the session so thank you all for your your presentations and answers it's obviously a big area that more work is needed on just a couple comments before I turn it back to Andrea first you know thanks to of course again the naval war college foundation that sponsors the levy chair in this conference and the president of naval war colleges animal chat fields support for this event of course thanks for everybody who helped support and participate in the event and lastly because there's nobody else to say it but thank you to Andrea whose not only was this her idea but her efforts were fairly hurtfully and you might have guessed as much by the thousand emails you probably all got but that's just the tip of the iceberg and not only is she organizing this conference but this is our busiest time of year for teaching in our department all while being a virtual detaily to the pentagon so thank you Andrea and get some sleep this weekend thank you chris i'd like to thank all of the final panelists chris andy and panos what a fantastic panel that really brought our whole event full circle you focused on uk and kind of went back to that very large human security lens and i'm through thoroughly impressed that you have a dedicated human security function and then we went through the in-depth discussion about cultural heritage and the importance of preserving our history during this event we sought to expand the concept of human security into the maritime environment to initiate a proactive strategic thought on these issues we did this by asking all our panels to explore how their specific human security topic affected the maritime strategic environment and what it meant for navies and coast guards my favorite component is always learning about how navies and coast guards are thinking through their operational policy and force options this is a very solutions-oriented approach and we can all learn from each other in looking at this as you can see from the speakers we carefully assembled a mix of scholars and practitioners as well as admirals and senior officers directly working on these issues in their respective countries this event started with an idea in my head when i saw militaries operationalizing the human security concept but overlooking the maritime component it has been wonderful bringing this idea to chris and collaborating with the support of the levy chair in economic geography to make this happen by being virtual we were able to bring together experts from around the world and record the event for many more to access it in the future i truly appreciate everyone's participation and your interest in the subject again i'd like to thank all the speakers and moderators for their participation today as well as our special events team of charlotte and carolin public affairs office media services alumni programs and the members of our climate and human security team josh vagan kurtis bell and michael bush who collaborated and supported this event well i was on camera it took a large team to deliver this event today and i couldn't have done it without them all thank you for joining us stay safe everyone this concludes our virtual conference on human security in the maritime environment


We made a great game out of spaghetti and the colander. We're gonna show you how to do it so you could play too. First you need a colander. A colander is a strainer that you use in the kitchen. Like when you're washing fruit or dumping cooked vegetables into it. The holes that the water run out. Next you need some dry spaghetti. Any kind of long pasta. It just can't be cooked. Then you need to put the dry spaghetti through the hole of the colander and you have to push it through one hole to get it all the way to the other side. It can be whatever way you want. Go crazy. To make it so it goes all the way to the other side. If a piece breaks of the dry spaghetti, it's no problem. We're making a net of spaghetti inside the colander. When the net is ready, you can put in a ball. A very light ball. Like a ping pong ball or a foam ball. The ball should be light enough to sit on top of the pasta. Gently drop your ball on top of the spaghetti net. Each person takes turns pulling a piece of pasta out. The goal of the game is to pull out the pasta and get the ball to the bottom. I'm picking this one because it's under the ball and it has better chances of making it fall. You were so close. I want to choose this one because it's holding the ball up. I should get this one. I'm gonna show you how to play silly animal charades so you can play too. This is what you need to make silly animal charades. First you need to make your animal cards. Print your animal off the internet. And go on like an adult. You don't wanna go on by yourself. Animals out of magazines like these. Or you can color them. I'm cutting out this cute koala that I found. I wanna make a dragon. And you can make any type of animal you want. You can make a rainforest animal. You can make a desert animal, even a water animal. While we make our cards, I'm gonna show you how to play silly animal charades. To play, you pick an animal first. And then you act it out. And just like regular charades, the kids have to guess what your animal is. Once they've guessed your animal, you go back to the bins and you pick an action for your animal to do. You act out your animal doing that action and the other players have to guess what action your animal's doing. And then it's someone else's turn. And that's how you play silly animal charades. Once you have your animal, you can glue it on a card. And after this, after I glue this on the card, this is going in the animal bin. With this cute koala I cut out earlier. Next, you have to find some actions. I'm gonna take this very cute squirrel reading. I'm gonna glue it on that card right there. I'm gonna put it in the action spin. Right there. I'm gonna pick an action. For your escaping rope, be a shark. Mystery rhymes. We're gonna tell you how to do it so you can play too. Yo mo goose, give me a beat. All the king's horses and all the king's men couldn't put Humpty to get it. First you need nursery rhymes. I just flipped over this bowl. Just a nice and steady beat to go with the rhythm. I have two forks and I'm adding a... First I'm getting a nursery rhyme. Which one did you get? I got Little Miss Muffet. Bottle. What's a nice spy bottle? So you can play too. First I'm gonna make color for rice. You're going to first need a plastic bag. You put in four to five pumps of hand sanitizer. I wanna make my rice red. I'm making mine's blue. Then put in four to five drops of food coloring. And you're gonna put a cup of rice. And just put one cup. You need to zip your bag. And then you're going to put that rice and just swish it. Oh, mushy. Chewing mushy, mushy, mushy. You need to dry your rice. Which will probably take an hour. You could just pour it into a bowl. This is the rice that we made earlier. And now it's dry. And now we're ready to make our spy bottle. This bottle was old and recycled from Sweet Tea. So we're gonna have a clear bottle, a funnel. And here are some objects. So we're gonna get a scoop in the red. Mix the rice, go through it. So then the rice will go into the bottle. It's a minus to put inside the bottle. Here's some that we found. A paper clip, some candlesticks, some flour, blue ball. Okay, and now we're gonna write down what we just put on. We're gonna write things down so we can find them later. So now we're gonna get another scoop. This is gonna be nice and colorful.  I'm going to put in the red rice and then an object and then the blue rice and then an object and then a green rice and an object. And I just repeat it and repeat it until it's full enough. So now we're gonna put in the object. So I'm going to put in the guitar and Daniel's gonna put in a whistle. The whistle. The whistle. Okay, so now to finish our rainbow. Now I'm going to put the cap on. I'm gonna shake it up so I can find the objects. I found the Qatar. And that's how you make an ice spy bottle. We made a spider web game in our room. Here's Andrew. This is a hard one. We're gonna show you how to make one so you can play too. All you need to make your own web is yarn and jingle bells. The first thing you need to do is cut a really, really long piece of yarn. Make sure you check with an adult before you tie yarn onto something. Don't tie your yarn to anything that could tip over such as a bookcase or a lamp. Jingle bell on each piece of yarn. Here's how you put the jingle bell on the piece of yarn. It's almost like flossing your teeth except this with a jingle bell. You take the yarn and you put it into the slits of the jingle bell. It'll tricky.  And there you go, you have your jingle bell. The more yarn you put up, the harder the game will be. And then you need something to toss into the web. We just made a ball out of these socks. To play the game, you toss the ball into the middle of the web. And someone has to go get it. I'm first. Oh, that's a hard one. I'm gonna go this way because it's easier than going under. Come on, Daniel, you can do it. But don't set off the bell. This is a hard one. Make it. Yes, you can. I'm gonna go this way because it's very. Almost there. I'm playing Old MacDonald's Switcheroo. We'll picture cards. You can draw pictures or cut them out for magazines or even use stickers. The pictures can mean anything. Like a wild animal or food or something you play with. Just tape or glue the picture onto a card and then put the cards into a bowl. I'm gonna pick one out. I'll let a ball mix and replace it from an animal for Old MacDonald.


Hi, I'm Clarence from St. Paul, Minnesota and you were watching Trucker Josh vlogs on YouTube base Everybody just got new toys New Frankie. How do what do you think? What do you think? What are you getting new raccoon? Oh? Yeah, tell us how you really feel Come on That's how you really feel Pretty good Oh, oh you found that one Which one are you gonna take wiener? Which one's yours? Get him get him Diesel's got one And Chevy's got one. Hey, hey, hey, don't wreck it. Don't wreck it. Oh, you already chewed a hole in it They chewed tie a tag off Don't chew on it, buddy squeak it squeak it Get him get him Diesel's just delicate Right out right away from him So you guys got four new toys, so we have to find four of your old toys that we're gonna throw away Yeah Okay, well, well then we'll put four of your toys back in the toy box There's two under three four right there Only squeaks in two spots The fox Good boys Chevy be nice. Don't rip it open right away. I have to see what's inside So hello guys good morning not much to film today because I'm just at home Tonight or tomorrow I have to go on a trip to Wisconsin to Rothschild, Wisconsin And I have a load that I pick up in Evansville, Wisconsin. That's taking me to Camrose, Alberta Today we just went on a little bit of a hike into town and when we left I promised the boys I'd bring them back something squeaky True yes, I promised diesel because diesel takes such good care of his toys. He cherishes them Treats them so nice And he's the new guy. He's our foster pup. This is the other Frankie for watching him while his owner is Seeing the doctor. She's got a couple of surgeries and stuff that Made her sort of unable to watch the dog right now, but we're fostering him taking care of him for her Chevy just rips him all apart. He wants to see what's inside right away And then wiener He's a pretty good player to player with Toyser but He gets a little more rowdy when he's just at home alone I think the big guys intimidate him a little bit a little bit of a full house, but it's fun It's fun So I'm just getting everything ready Might head out tonight.  This is the load we picked up yesterday Tarped it all here and we're all ready to Roll and rock as they say all this wood. It's all OSB particle board Excuse me always be particle board so We're not gonna be going very far Probably tell a tally a and it's about an hour from here about 15 minutes from the US border Bunker down there for the night and first thing tomorrow will be On our way off to the races Gotta make sure there's air to the suspension Make sure there's air in all the tires. They always work so much better when they're filled with air Definitely looks good make sure all the lights work yada yada Don't want anything to fly off on the highway either So I checked everything We're just gonna make double triple sure that my trailer is not gonna fall off Jut forward just a little bit not too fast to roll forward gently yank the trailer brake See if the trailer falls off Oh Nope We are definitely connected trailer brakes do engage try rolling again trailer brakes disengage the lights work Giggity It's rock and roll roll and rock. I wanted to get Like I said a head start today It's gonna be about a full day's drive to get there tomorrow when I'm at home I don't like getting up early And it also it wakes Brit up and she gets up a little later than I would be because that'd be up It looked a crack of dawn That just works out better for me We both get a better sleep this way and I get a little head start Make some money Works out better this way and a very short vlog today. We didn't get very far at all We got here to scene a gaff flying Jay. I wanted to get to letalia, but by the time we we got here it was 1 15 in the morning and I Wasn't thinking really because I stopped here at 1 15 right and I'm going to the US Which means I have to stop for 10 consecutive hours now before I can drive down to the US and be legal to drive there So I can't leave till 11 15 I was gonna get going at like 8 in the morning I don't eight nine in the morning maybe because in Canada I'm used to you know You only have to stop eight hours if I would have gotten here at 115 I could have started my pre-trip at 9 15 been out of here at 9 30 No, we got to wait So I went in here at a shower at the flying chair grab some breakfast grab some food took the weasel hoat for a walk and We have 11 more minutes before I can start my pre-trip I've already done my pre-trip But 11 minutes until I can tell my e-log that I'm doing my pre-trip because I have to log 15 minutes at the beginning of each day For my pre-trip right I have to have that on my logs. I Already did my pre-trip. So I just got to turn this thing on. I don't know do it again or Sit and twiddle my thumbs and wait for the clock to turn over one bad thing about e-logs. Yeah but Technically I wasn't supposed to be working yet But come on who can sleep for ten hours right ten hours. So I slept for what eight and a half Eight and a half hours. I went in I had a shower And then when I came back I just figured I'd get to work on the pre-trip. So I don't know Ten minutes now, I guess I could do the pre-trip again. It's Better than just sitting in here doing nothing waiting for 15 minutes to pass by, you know, it's better safe than sore too I mean it's better to uh Do it twice than not at all Someone wise once said that But I gotta end this video here guys. I know it was a short video today. We were just at home for a little while and uh Lately I've been taken a little easy At home. I don't film a lot. I I don't even Know where my phone is a lot of the time and it's uh It's not so good always for my friends who want to get ahold of me because uh, or my family because when I get home I've gotten into the habit of Having my phone on silent or even if it's on but putting it on the counter and just forgetting it there It's leaving it there. I don't want that phone to have control over my life I don't want to constantly have my smartphone in my hand and my wife Gives me heck if I have it in my hand too much. So I just don't even pick it up at all I'm learning. I'm learning. Just don't even touch it. Josh. Just leave it on the counter But uh, uh, it started off maybe like that like me just there's just don't even touch it Don't even touch it.  Not just leave it on the counter and you can't say I'm always on my phone But now it's actually turned into a habit where she doesn't even bug me about my phone anymore I don't even think about my phone anymore And it's better for us because I I want to connect with her when we're at home when I'm at home, right? I don't want to just sit there. I'm gone for what how many days on the road I don't want to just come home and sit on my phone right beside her like sort of present but not present So I don't want to be one of those guys so uh I don't film too much when I'm at home. Sometimes I do she encourages me to film with So like don't take it that way like she she's always telling me I need to vlog more when I'm at home, but Sometimes it's just nice to enjoy that time And you know, we have lots of life ahead of us yet. I hope And I don't plan on quitting these vlogs anytime soon So, you know, maybe we'll get back in the swing of vlogging when we're at home and getting different footage I don't know. I go through seasons of life just like seasons of weather Seasons where I'm all dung-hole. Let's film tons and tons and tons every single day and post it every single day And then I go through seasons where I'm like, yeah, I'm at home. I just want to sit on the couch Or I just want to barbecue or I want to go mow the lawn Or I just want to enjoy hanging out with my family and friends Without sticking a camera in everybody's face Like I said, it's just seasons of life It's that's sort of par for the course for daily vloggers If you don't do a daily vlog, you don't understand, but if you do a daily vlog Like my friend Troy From beyond 1031 his link is down below every one of my videos. Go check him out. He's pretty hardcore He makes a video every single day regardless He's very very dedicated and he's uh, he's from Washington state and he's got a fiance who's from Vancouver Canada or Vancouver not Vancouver around that area in Canada And so they're working on their immigration stuff right now. I think she's gonna move down to the u.s. I don't blame her But then they might move back to Canada later I'm not I'm not too sure but he makes a daily video and he's been doing it for longer than I've been doing videos. So What day is he on like 3,500 or something like that? Maybe I'm off by a little bit But go check him out. His vlogs are very interesting. He puts a lot of effort into every single video Him and his fiance, Andrew, they go hiking a lot out in the mountains there in the rocky mountains It's just beautiful scenery. You should go check him out. But He understands that daily vlogging is taxing sometimes, but He's pretty hard a little more hardcore than me Anyways, subscribe to my channel. Anyways, because I do plan on continuing to make videos for an indefinite amount of time Probably years and years into the future as long as you guys keep watching. I'll keep making them. How about that? Let's make a deal You subscribe and you come back and watch my videos and I'll keep making new ones for you