place. I messaged you Sunday and I just said I messaged you and I said I was in the Liverpool City Centre and it really did it depress me and it didn't depress me because I was seeing all Liverpool stuff. It depressed me how just, everyone just don't have any identity in the city anymore. That's what really, really annoyed me and I said to me as with Sam and I Mae'n gwneud i'n rhaid i'r Rom ac mae roi'n rhaid i roma unrhyw o brofodor, ac mae rhaid i'r Roma. A dysti'n rhoi, dysti'n roi'n 2008. Dyma'r llyfodod o'r Tarty'n roi, a'r tarty Bryddon yn y fawr ac mae rhaid i'r Roma. A bwysig yn rhaid i'r Lato. Ac mae'n gwybod i'n bwysig ar y gyfan sydd yn rhaid i'r Roma. 12 a 12 a 12 a 12. Ond mae'r Tarty Bryddon yn rhaid i roi'n rhaid i'r Roma. Mae'n gyd, mae gennw'n meddwl i'w mdeithasol. Rwy'n meddwl i'w beth sydd gyda gwaith. Rydw i'r hyn yn fyw yn ymd sins, a'r mwyn Gymraeg iawn dwy hynny. Ond rydw i'n eich cyfnod o wybod hir. Cwrs, mae'n meddwl i'r club o'r plm. Rydw i'n meddwl i'r plaer o'r ddechrau yn dweud. Rydw i'n meddwl i'r perthynau busydd, rydw i'n meddwl i'r fanig. Ond rydw i'n meddwl roedd eu llaw oedd yma. I was driving up, I picked up last and last, this weekend or weekend before and he'd done a night at the museum with the things he'd stayed in the museum, a night at the museum. It was terrifying. And then he went up and looked at the mummies when he said he'd snuck up to look at the mummies. I want to do that, that's amazing! That's the house boss. So I picked him up on the Sunday morning and was driving back up London Road and there's literally two signpokes for Amfield, both for the people pop-up of Amfield and I was like, two new misses first. Because our grant is literally that way. And it's just things like that. I know it doesn't really matter and people will go, we're not tourist, that's why. But people do come into the city to go what they want. Our grant is that way. We should be touristy? A lot of people come into this city and they come in this way, right? Loads of people come into this city. They'll come in blank, like a complete blank thing, right? I've seen it. I've been in the event shop loads of times where people are walking and they've got Liverpool bags and they'll buy something from the event shop, right? It happens all the time. And I've done that when I've gone to places, I've gone to places and I've gone, right? I'll buy, oh well I'll get that, and I'll get that. You know, any stuff in Dortmund or nothing? No, but like if there's two teams, you'll go, well I've got no affinity to either, so I'll grab that and I'll grab that. But Everton don't do that and Liverpool do. And when people come to the city, they're just bombarded. But what I'm saying is if you didn't know, you wouldn't know there was another club in this city. Yes, you've got the club shop. But even that's, it's all dark. Liverpool, I was in the event shop on Sunday and there wasn't a soul in there. There was not one customer. Honestly, I was the only customer. And next door, like two doors down, it's this big Liverpool shop, buzzing. And that's fine because you can understand why it's like that. But Everton's is like just a place, it's all dark and all signage is dark. And Liverpool's is like bright and welcoming and is at the side of the escalator and perfectly positioned. And it's just like, apart from the Everton shop, there's nothing in Liverpool to suggest all the stores are just covered in Liverpool scarves. All the pubs have got Liverpool stuff in the windows. And there's even a pub in the city centre now, which is rebranded to Jaegans. And it's Water Sports Bar. And now it's just a Liverpool bar. It's the side of all that to the market, clearly. And of course, and I understand that. I do fully understand that's a business thing. But Everton just don't have a presence. And so Liverpool are just making them, backing themselves and making themselves bigger and bigger and bigger. And it's a self-fulfilling prophecy for them. That's what I'm saying. That's where it's funny enough, perversely, though. That's where I'm sort of like... It doesn't feel as bad because Everton are doing certainly footballers and not doing anything to deal with it. But Liverpool are backing themselves. So therefore, like we're saying, when they'll be Barcelona, you just go... What does he deserve? When they're doing the lead this season, they'll deserve it. And it doesn't feel... It doesn't feel as bad because I'm becoming numb to it. That's what I'm saying. I'm essentially numb to the whole thing. But that's because... You've seen the progress since clock coming. Whether we like it or not, it's tangible. You can see where they're building and how they're getting better. In that same period of time, we've had three different managers and spent £400 million. And we are further away now than we've ever been. Well, it's quite interesting because... I know this is a little bit little heavy, but I do think it's what it is. You've got to deal with it. That's the point. It's like a therapy session this. I've said loads of time, the standards are really interesting. Kickstart, I want to sort of... I'm trying to think of the right words. It symbolises what they've done. They've built something but maintained their traditions. If that makes sense. So having the stand and clop and more and people behind the scenes. A build this one thing. Where is Everton? It's just all over the place. We're almost in limbo. That's good symbolism for the grand as well. No, but that's what I mean. It's almost like... I think it's totally the wrong strategy for Everton to take. But it's almost like... I love you, Sam and Bramley Mosey, because we'll be there. And you know what? It will improve because of the grandeur. The presence will improve in the city. But that's four years till we get there. So by that time we will have shrunk instead of continuing your league. You've got to fight to stand still. When your neighbours are top of the league and everything's getting bigger and they're a world brand. You've got to fight to even just maintain where you are now. Where are you going? I just hope. I hope when the get the planning permission. That Everton just go off then. That it's like countdown to the new grand. And we start but we put posters all over the city. And it's like countdown. And it's like four years. I don't know how much it would cost.  Somewhere in the city centre. Or even on the big... No, there as well. On the billboard. At Lion Street, right? Every week by an advertising slot you just have countdown. Countdown to Bramley Mosey. Countdown to Everton's new grand. You've got to. Everton needs to get some proper top people in lots of positions. Retail will be the first one. I'm just going off I think. I'm just thinking of what you've just said about the shop. Get an expert in to go. Now the way you have body language experts. And they come in and they change. The way you greet them or ever need that in to go. Is this shop welcoming first and foremost? Does it make you want to come in it? The answer will be no. It doesn't feel dark. It's like they've took the wrong attitude towards the book. But we should hopefully when we get the planning permission. We need to just start shouting. Because remember when we did that video about. Becoming an athletic home we did. We've become an Espanol. We've become in a club. When we went to Barcelona. A while ago there was just zero presence there. Of you know. Tlock over there. Yeah. We'll be doing that.


All right, welcome back everyone. So we are going to delve right back into our next speaker who is Marcia Abenhus, Professor Marcia Abenhus, who is joining us all the way from New Zealand where I believe is very early in the morning, so I really do appreciate that you that you are here with us. So short bio on Marcia, she's a professor in modern history at the University of Auckland, New Zealand. She has published widely on the history of war, peace, neutrality and internationalism, including the art of staying neutral, the Netherlands in the First World War, an age of neutrals, great power politics 1815 to 1914, the Hague conferences in international politics 1898 to 1915, and the first age of industrial globalization on international history 1815 to 1918. Her forthcoming co-authored book, Global War, Global Catastrophe, Neutrals, the Ligerands and the Transformation of the First World War, is due out in October this year. At present, she is working on global history of the Dum Dum bullet, and I can definitely recommend her work as absolutely stellar and really fun to read. So without further ado, Marcia, please. Thank you so much, Lauren. Sorry, Anna, I am very, very tired. Well, just not quite awake, so I'm going to launch right in and hope that the coffee that I've just had and the paper will get me going. I'm so grateful to be able to be here today, even at this distance and even so early in the morning, and I'm very sorry I missed so many of your wonderful papers. Anyway, here we go. Here's my screen. My paper today is something of an overview of the history of neutrality in maritime law from 1853 on, and really what I'm trying to do here is to discuss the confluence of three key 19th century developments. The first one is the relative lack of formal naval warfare across this century. The second, the opening of the world's seas and oceans to an enormous amount of shipping as well as to the laying of sub-oceanic telecommunications cables. And the third was the notable commitment expressed by all the great powers of the time to protect and promote the neutral rights of non-collegiate goods and ships in time of war. And I want to kind of unpack the confluence a little by looking at why there was a commitment to standardizing neutrality law by the great powers. So in all three points, the 1815-1914 era differs significantly from the European early modern period, the Napoleonic Wars, including the War of 1812 and the First World War. In those times of conflict, the principle might makes right, largely determined that belligerent rights to monitor, intercept, and seize neutral cargo, crews, and vessels tended to overrule the rights claimed by neutrals to protect their access to the seas and to neutral and enemy ports. In the 19th century, however, the mighty east of naval powers, Great Britain, not only embraced neutrality as a frequently adopted foreign policy, thereby enabling it to avoid going to war when others did, but it increasingly did so at the expense of many, although certainly not all, its maritime rights. And Britain was not alone. Most of the naval powers of the age followed suit, negotiating and adopting a range of new international laws of war that protected the rights of neutrals, in this sense might made neutral right in the 19th century world. So as I've argued elsewhere, and not least in these two books, the great power shift to neutrality practices began with the Congress of Vienna in 1815. The Crimean War offered the first potential challenge to these practices, or the first major challenge to these practices, as the first major interstate war fought between more than two great powers, the conflict's belligerents, Russia on one side, France, Britain and the Ottoman Empire on the other, were in a strong position to uphold the belligerent practices of their early modern past. Yet from the outset of these hostilities, Britain, France and Russia agreed not only to renounce the use of privateers, but also to limit their economic warfare campaigns against their enemy. Effectively, the British and French sustained only a few limited blockades of particular Russian ports, and in general lift the trade of the world's many neutrals alone, or try to maximise it for themselves. By localising the enable engagements in these ways, the belligerents collectively protected their relationship with key neutrals, including Prussia, the Habsburgs and the United States, and kept their own mercantile and passenger shipping routes open, which is not a small thing given the concurrence of the war with major migration shifts, including here to New Zealand, the global gold rushes, and the appeal of avoiding an economic war fought on the seas. Therefore, it was clear to many. Thus, during the Crimean War, neutral rights trumped belligency, and did so very much so at the behest of the war in great powers. This is not to say that the move away from aggressive maritime warfare was all that popular, and certainly not in Britain. As the Conservative MP, J. G. Fillmore, explained in the British Parliament in 1855, the principle of free ships make free goods, namely that enemy goods found on neutral vessels would be or should be immune from capture unless they were clearly contraband. He claimed that this concept made war according to Fillmore the harvest of neutral nations, and gave those neutrals real interest in prolonging any conflict. Furthermore, as he put it, it was a mistaken humanity to suppose that a nation could carry on a maritime war, and at the same time allow their enemy the advantages of peace. Yet Fillmore's point of protest, which came from a deep-seated belief in the need to protect the powers of the Royal Navy, was exactly the principle that many Britons, and certainly those Britons with interest in expanding their own global wealth and investments and their imperial interests, wished to protect. And after the Crimean War, Britain successfully avoided going to war with another naval power for nearly 60 years until August 1914, in fact, when it declared war on Germany. And these Victorians fully understood they had everything to gain, or at least thought they understood they had everything to gain if they were neutral while others went to war. Between 1853 and 1914, then, as the American Rear Admiral and Legal Scholar C. H. Stockton explained, most of the interstate wars that were fought sustained a rather anomalous separation between the military war and the general condition of a global commercial peace. Stockton's conceptualization of limited warfare is a situation in which the global economy operated almost uninhibited by the occurrence of a military or naval conflict is essential to understanding the global contours of the 19th century era of industrial imperialism. For in this era of limited war, and I've purposely put that in quotation marks, of course, there was lots of very violent war, but limited warfare in the sense means that these wars were occurred frequently, but were almost always constrained geographically and economically by the neutrality declarations of other states, many of which were great powers. Furthermore, neutrals were almost always in the majority during these wars, and thus the assertion of neutral rights, as opposed to belligerent rights, came to predominate much of this shift to these limited warfare practices and the rethinking of the role of Navy's at sea that depend on Britain. So I'm trying to contend here that the shift away from the might-makes-right premises that sat at the heart of much early modern maritime warfare, although it was highly contested during that time, particularly when conducted by the British in the Atlantic world, shifted fundamentally with the Crimean War. In its place, the industrializing states who dominated the international system renegotiated the laws of war, particularly with an eye to standardizing the much contested concept of neutrality and concomitantly protecting their own interests as neutrals. Across the centuries, of course, the principle of neutrality from the fulcrum of the regulation of maritime and economic warfare, who could trade with whom and what could they legitimately carry across the seas. The policing of economic warfare was almost always done at sea by the belligerents and relied on the interpretation of key principles in pre-legal principles. Throughout the pre-1815 period, neutral states proclaimed the right to trade unhindered. The free ships make free goods claim. Some even suggested that private properties should be free from belligerent capture altogether. The United States would continue to proclaim this through the 19th century. They certainly demanded that contraband should be defined and that belligerent blockades were only binding on neutrals when they were effectively sustained at the entrance of a port. In response and depending on circumstances, early modern belligerent powers were keen to defend their right to capture enemy goods, even when carried on a neutral vessel. The right to issue letters of mark to privateers and at bare minimum to itemise contraband imposed the principle of continuous voyage and to sustain blockades by declaring them in name only. The Crimean War, we see a clear shift in these practices. And most importantly, because at the end of the conflict, some of them were codified in the 1856 declaration of Paris. Now, as Olaf Richter described them in 1965, the declaration was the most remarkable of milestones that marked the progress of neutrality in part because the declaration consecrated previously claimed neutral rights in a multilateral treaty ratified by all the great powers accepting the United States. And the United States would nevertheless adopt many of its principles during the subsequent US Civil War and the Spanish-American War of 1898. Still, the limits of neutral trading rights in time of war were repeatedly contested in the aftermath of the Crimean War. Without a clear delineation of the rules, as had occurred with the declaration of Paris, essential questions resurfaced repeatedly. Could neutral ship builders sell merchant vessels to the Confederacy during the US Civil War and then convert them into cruises on the open seas? Could neutral merchants freely trade in arms with France and Germany and move them into their unblockaded ports, as happened during the Franco-Prussian War? Could France declare rice contraband, as it did during the Sino-French War of 1884-5? Could Japan legitimately sink a neutral British passenger liner carrying Chinese troops, as it did during the first Sino-Japanese War? Could the United States cut neutral sub-oceanic telegraph cables leading to the Spanish territories of Cuba and the Philippines, as it did during the Spanish-American War? How might wireless telegraphy carried on neutral ships on the open seas be monitored and released? Could Russia sink neutral prizes at sea before they had been adjudicated in a price court, as happened during the Russo-Japanese War, including with the loss of some neutral cruise lives? All these issues created serious diplomatic situations with the potential to endanger the peaceful relationship between neutral and belligerent states. Clarity in what neutral governments and their subjects could and could not do was paramount to sustaining the balance of power across the world, at least from the perspective of the neutrals as much as from the perspective of belligerence. Such clarity was also sought by merchants, financiers, insurance brokers, bankers, telegraph companies, and anyone involved in the shipping industry. Neutrality handbooks, often written by international lawyers, proliferated anytime a war erupted. These advised companies and interested citizens on how to conduct their business across the seas and outlined the legal requirements of neutrality and belligerency. Newspapers, too, filled with articles describing the rules of war and the expected code of conduct of neutrals and belligerence alike, often with a focus on commercial issues. When disputes involved, as they inevitably did and certainly did in all the cases on this slide, lengthy editorials explained the legal and diplomatic complexities involved. 19th and early 20th century newspaper readers were well informed about neutrality and well understood the stakes for the maintenance of their society's wealth, well-being, and national and imperial prestige. Enterprising businesses, international law associations, and liberal internationalists across the world lobbied the governments to adopt ever more lenient neutrality rules to both protect the global economy from the harsh impact of war and to advance the peace of the seas for the movement of their private property and their people. So it's utterly unsurprising then that neutrality featured prominently in the negotiations at the two Hague Conferences of 1899 and 1907. The 1899 conference extended the provisions of the 1864 Geneva Conventions to warfare at sea and created laws for the internment of belligerent soldiers found on in neutral sovereign territory, including on board neutral ships. The second Hague conference made considerably more progress on the limits of territorial waters, the laying of sea mines, the exemption for capture of post at sea, the conversion of merchant vessels into belligerent vessels on the open seas, and the right to colon and neutral harbours. Most importantly, the conference established the International Prize Court, a court of appeal to which private individuals and companies, mainly from neutral states, could take their grievances if and when a domestic belligerent price court decision went awry. The IPC was revolutionary. It was the first international court of appeal in existence. Its creation confirmed the principle that private individuals, as opposed to states, had inalienable rights. And above all, the IPC and the Hague conventions recognised the centrality of neutrality in the international environment and reinforced the expectation that neutrals would continue to feature prominently in modern warfare. But the 1907 Hague conference failed to do what many had hoped it would, namely to codify all the major laws of maritime war, at least the last number of them. Without a universally defined law of maritime law, the IPC for one could not sit. And these laws did come, or a large number of them came into being in London early in 1910. The declaration of London was even more neutrality-friendly than its Parisian predecessor of 1856. It offered a well-defined set of laws relaying the rights and duties of maritime powers in time of war, including classifying which resources could be declared contraband, the powers of blockade and their limits, and the abolition of continuous voyage. That Britain ultimately failed to actually ratify the declaration, which is rather ironic since they called for it, six and all something essential about the growth of neutral rights in the years leading up to the First World War as well. Namely, that it also inspired a fear that the adoption of these neutral rights would leave Britain as the world's foremost naval power, and here I'm invoking Phil and Morse protest of 1855, which was a continuous debate in Britain from the Crimean War on what to do about neutrality and belligerency given the need to maximise the power of the Royal Navy when the British Empire went to war. The debate on the contestation between neutral and belligerent rights consumed the British newspaper media throughout 1910 and March of 1911 and 1912. In the end, the House of Lords voted in favour of protecting the Royal Navy's belligerency and refused to ratify the declaration. And without Britain's adhesion to the declaration, the IPC could not be formed. Above all, the British debate about the declaration or the public debate around the declaration of London highlights how contestation between neutrality and belligerency was never straightforward. Between 1853 and 1914, naval strategists in every major state had to plan for a potential wartime future in which their country was either a belligerent or a neutral. And given that most neutral rights impeded belligerent rights and vice versa, how to advocate for a suitable balance between the was never easy and always contentious at almost every level of that you can imagine it was contentious. Between 1853 and 1914, however, the odds almost always in the end favoured neutral rights, where before 1815 and after 1914, they tended to favour belligerent rights. Yet for most naval powers in 1910 and 1914, even neutrality continued to win out. The other powers did ratify or attempted to ratify the declaration of London, for example. So at the outbreak of the First World War, Britain also declared it would adhere to its terms, the declarations terms, that is, if only to stable the global economy and its rights and power in it in the short term. So neutrality still defined the global landscape of maritime warfare at the outbreak of this global total war. But, of course, the dominance of neutrality did not mean that all belligerent rights were signed away. Nor did it mean that states did not invest in expanding their naval power. The naval razors of the turn of the century highlight just how significant they considered that power to be. The key to their naval planning revolved around understanding the need to prepare for the possibility of war and the likelihood of remaining neutral. As an example, consider how the German delegation at the Hague in 1907 presented a case to protect the rights of neutrals to trade with belligerents. This policy helped its war planning as much as it helped its own plans for being neutral, not least because several small but powerful trading nations like the Netherlands and the Scandinavian states ordered Germany, all of which were renowned long-term neutrals. From a German's perspective, a future British blockade, if it went to war with Britain, for example, may be surmounted if enough goods could be funneled by river or rail through its neutral neighbours. The German delegation at the Hague thus supported the creation of the international prize court. Protecting a neutral's right to trade then was as much part of the German naval platform in planning for war as building a sizable fleet of warships. Similarly, when Francis Jean Nicole strategist considered that a fleet of torpedo boats could keep the ships of a future enemy in port, they also supported the widening of neutral merchant rights. Meanwhile, the United States ongoing demand to clear all private property free of capture on the open seas reflected its government and, in many ways, its subject's expectation that it was unlikely to go to war with any major industrial and imperial rival in the near future. Here, too, Alfred May and his promotion of building up the United States as a strong naval power capable of asserting its grip on the sea, as he put it, set uncomfortably alongside its reputation as a staunchly neutral power willing and able to protect its neutral rights might as such made neutral right. It must be said that these neutrality expectations did not survive the First World War. That conflict witnessed a phenomenal expansion of belligerent rights supported by legal justifications that hiked back to the pre-1815 years. But to fixate on the First World War is the death of neutrality, which was a major debate among legal scholars certainly after 1917 when the United States ended its neutrality and went to war as the last neutral great power left in that war. By fixating on this death, one risks the minimization of the importance of neutrality and its expansion and the expansion of neutrality, neutral rights in law in the 19th century age of globalization and imperialism for between 1815 and 1914. So many of the world's industrial states came to rely heavily on these neutral rights to trade and freely access the open seas thereby helping them to expand their imperial power as well. Everyone's foreign and economic policies as well as the enable strategies accommodated this essential shift. That's me. Thank you. Oh, brilliant, Marcia. Thank you so much for that. I have so many questions. It's not even my period, but I just found that absolutely fascinating. So while I wait for the questions to come in by the chat, I will just actually kick off with one of my own. Can you tell us a little bit more about this international prize court and how it worked and did it ever actually come into play? Did it hear cases? What was the sort of political fallout of this? I am fascinated by this as an institution. Yeah, it's fascinating. I completely agree with you and there hasn't been very much scholarly attention paid to it. There's some but not very much in part because it never sat. But it was seriously intended to sit and it didn't sit because Britain didn't ratify the declaration of London and therefore there wasn't a well-defined set of laws. But the principle effectively was that a little bit like the permanent court of arbitration that was already established in the Hague, but for private companies not states. They could take their grievances when their ships were illegally sunk or illegally taken or they thought they were illegally taken and declared a prize in war by one of the belligerents, which occurred a lot during the Russo-Japanese War particularly, that there would be a course of appeal to a higher international body and it was to being effectively, it was a panel of international lawyers or representations from every state, almost all of which were neutral. So the neutral lawyers or the neutral judges would outnumber any belligerent judges and there would be a belligerent judge from each warring party as well present and they could rule saying no, you couldn't take that prize and you need to recompensate that company for the loss of goods and even the loss of life. So it caused issues in Britain on the issue of this, it wasn't the IPC that as much as anything was the issue as the notion that there might be a law that overruled British law and in the United States in the end there was a vast debate about it out overruling the Supreme Court. So there would have been issues, which is the well-known argument post 1918 that we hear for the United States non-adherence to other international courts, but it was already gurgling at this point as well. So it needs more attention, absolutely. No, that's great and then just sort of following on from that. So I was really fascinated by, so my research obviously focuses on the 18th century and just the beginning of the 19th century. So in my conception of neutrality, it is very much a bilateral conception, you know, in some ways Britain dominates in the thinking of neutrality but it's an Anglo-Spanish treaty or an Anglo-Dutch treaty and you, from your paper, I very much get the sense that this concept of bilateralism really shifts and becomes much more about sort of international congresses and actually international rules. Could you just, if that is correct, that could you just speak a bit about this transition and why you think it might happen? I'll tell you on the spot, I realize that's a huge question, but it just struck me as I was listening. Oh, that is a huge question. I think it's, I think it has everything to do with the insecurities of the end of the Napoleonic era and the recognition of the need of these victorious states. And I would actually label the United States one of these as well. This understanding that there is more to lose potentially in the world if there isn't some sort of multilateral, at least understanding that going to war with each other actually destabilizes interest in common. And so I think it's part of that wider congress system, which I would say it wasn't just a European conceptualization, it wasn't just something about the balance of power in Europe, but rather something that affected the transatlantic world more widely. And it plays out, I think one of the reasons that there is so much international law aside from the need for individuals to have a sense of security and how they conduct themselves over the seas and in spaces that are not defined by their own sovereign empire or state is this understanding that actually helps everyone to be more clear. So rather than having bilateral agreements, although there were bilateral agreements and all sorts of things, and the expansion of bilateral treaties was quite clear in the 19th century as well, but it was also about there are things we hold in common and these wars, these particularly when there were a large number of interstate wars, so as opposed to imperial wars where the war potentially risked a large number of other states' economic interests, access to ports and the seas, it almost demanded them to get together and say, all right, well it serves us all to kind of clarify what it is when we mean by a blockade in a way that shifts from that British we don't want to lose any of our rights, so we will agree to a treaty with this state in this moment for these reasons. And so it's kind of opening up those rights, although I still think Britain dominates and as it did in the early modern era as well and all that goes to custard in the first world war. Awesome, so our participants are feeling a bit shy, I don't know if it's because it's late in the evening here in Britain, so I'm just going to keep going because I have loads of questions to ask you. Luke has put their hands up. Oh I can't see that, oh I'm so sorry, yes please jump in, whoever has your hand up.  Okay, since we have talked about this in regard to my talk and neutrality being made in practice during the early modern period, I'd like to hear more about these neutrality handbooks that you have mentioned, it's a very basic question but so had the merchants who sought for clarity had any say in these in the creation of these handbooks or who was responsible for creating them and would love to just would just love to work with such a handbook for the early modern period. Well it's a great question and it was the real fun part of my research was to find them, so you know I did quite a bit of newspaper research in order to unpack sort of the public space engagement with neutrality and what I ended up discovering was there was an enormous amount of anxiety anytime there was war anywhere among neutral publics about their access to the world outside the borders of their state and the seas and shipping routes and investments and access to whatever overseas and this anxiety created a market and so you see public not just newspapers responding, the lawyers write articles for newspapers explaining what continuous voyage means or what it means when a ship gets seized by a belligerent power and gets taken into a prize court and what one's rights are and a large number some of it's about humanitarianism so what should one's duty be to the victims of war as well so it's not just a well it is all self-serving in the end but it's it's about defining expectations and trying to create and also crying trying to create opportunities so it's also about where can I profit the most from what's happening but it's the anxiety the inability to imagine if the ship that's already left port and is heading to somewhere where there might be military engagement at sea or we're going to get to might not be able to get to a port or might be intercepted and I might lose everything that's where it came from they're largely written by lawyers I don't know whether they were instigated by request but it's certainly to meet this market and they must have solved well because I found dozens and dozens of them so you can find them pretty easily in even on the internet archive.org at the moment if you typed in neutrality and the date of a particular war 1904-05 is particularly useful you'll find them they're there and their and their prologues are all about I hope the ordinary subject or the ordinary citizen finds this a useful guide to what's going on and helps them with their day-to-day business. Not speaking of the 18th century. No thank you very much and thank you for getting up so early. Oh that's a pleasure I'm sorry I missed your paper. Thanks Marta. David Morgan Owen has a question for you so I'll just read it out to you. So he says to what extent did different national legal traditions conflict in the formation of international law before 1914? In particularly do you see a schism between Anglo-U.S. and German-European conceptions? Well that's a really fascinating question because there's a large amount of historiography that would claim that there is this constant schism that the European legal tradition is quite different from the Anglo-American one. What I found most in terms of neutrality was that there wasn't a schism so much between the Europeans and the British but rather between the British and the Americans and it was generally about interpreting neutral rights so the reason the United States didn't then sign up for the declaration of power was because they wanted all private property to be immune from capture and therefore dispensing with a large number of neutrality laws including contraband and so forth. What you do see is in 1907 at the Hague and I'm not so well read on the how the scholars engage on this but more on how the diplomacy of it evolved. We did do see Britain in 1907 offering to do away with contraband altogether but and to favor protecting blockading rights and there is a moment there that you see real tension certainly with the Germans who who want the exact who don't want who don't want the blockading rights to be sustained and the Germans respond by suggesting that sea mines ought to be and the rights to lay sea mines should ought to be extended so that a belligerent can protect its ports from being blockaded if you lay enough mines in the in the harbor mouth then no effective blockade can take take part so there are those kinds of contestations but there are about strategic interests and planning for war not so much about the differences in legal interpretations and I guess what the point here is is an argument that Stephen Neff so beautifully makes in his book the rights and duties of neutrals which is neutrality in law is often more product of the engagement between the needs of war and states so circumstantial as opposed to being a product of how legal scholars engage with each other having said that there was a large amount of legal commentary on neutrality in the late 19th and early 20th centuries as well I'm not sure that quite is a depression but just to continue that kind of line then you'd raised a number of the kind of issues that led up to the thinking of 1914 but I'm interested because certainly throughout the war you see the American civil war as being such an important part of precedent particularly in that Anglo-American relationship and I just wondered kind of going back to David's question I mean with the other three bigger belligerents the Spanish the Netherlands and Norway what you know kind of take on the American civil war and the lessons do they get out of it in terms of precedent do they use it much during the actual draw you know the drawing up of their response to 1914 and particularly here I'm thinking you know Nick Lambert's book on planning for Armageddon just their their positioning and I just wondered what the what their their take on on that particular precedent is another great question um one of the one of the things that's quite clear from the longer term neutral so the long the the the states European states particularly but not just European states the states that set themselves up as neutrals in any circumstance unless they're at war themselves is that they both um really mobilized the accepted multilateral agreements so the the hate conventions and and they create at the start of a conflict most of them created declarations that they announced to the world saying we're going to be neutral regardless these are the rules and laws we will uphold within our borders these are the expectations we have of belligerence and and often they exceeded the requirements by law in order to be seen to be as neutral as possible and in some cases like in Belgium and Switzerland they exceeded expectations by for example they they they issued prohibitions on the sale of armaments during wars certainly after the Franco-Prussian war in order to not be seen as favoring one or other side militarily so to minimize the chance that they might be invaded so in 1914 when the First World War breaks out um they all do that um and it's not until Britain declares you know so it's not that they're invoking the United States civil war as such they're invoking many of the principles that came into agreement and being afterwards um one of the and in many ways they're not just looking at the US civil war they're looking at the walls of the 1860s they're looking at at all the walls that I listed before and all the issues that have gone before and they're trying to mitigate the um the possibility that they might be drawn into this conflict by not upholding something that would that they imagine would be expected of them as neutral so it's about them balancing the politics of it the economics of it and the legality of it um but they invoke the past including the US civil war and other things whenever there isn't um there is an issue and every time any of the neutrality laws are breached by a belligerent they protest to that belligerent to say your U boat entered our waters we picked it up we've interned it you can't get your crew back we're keeping the U boat in our port until the end of the war your crew is going to be interned in a camp until the end of the war because you breached our neutrality this is how we are safe saving our neutrality for uh for the future one thing I do want to say is that um the US civil war um create in the end um the neutrality obligations in law in international law were actually um after the US civil war they were by agreement of the British and the Americans were titans so the Alabama case was um arbitrated uh in Geneva in 1871 in the midst of the Franco-Prussian war and it kind of embedded this notion that and it quite clearly said states cannot sell ships to neutral states can't sell ships to belligerent navies when there is an expectation that ship might be used for warring uh conduct and this principle um the principle of due diligence that neutral governments had due diligence requirement to police the behavior of their subjects and citizens um came into being um and it was related to the obligations of neutrality and while the due diligence course itself was removed in 1907 the implication that states ought to police their neutrality um was sustained so there was a immense expectation on behalf of the the Norwegians and the and the Dutch and the Belgians and the Swiss and everyone else who was neutral um at the outbreak of the war certainly when the war was contained to Serbia, Austria and even and then as it expanded they were really really focused on defending and protecting their neutral uh their their legal obligations as well as their diplomatic uh the diplomatic implications of of their status and behaviors. Great thank you very much right brilliant session and we're going to keep on that vein in about three minutes time we'll ask you to come back and Martin Robson will join us and uh we'll we're gonna we're gonna keep on this world war one tour now for a little while so see you all back here in just a


Thank you. Thank you so much, Adam. Thank you, Adam. Hello, everyone. Today, we're going to talk about Katie Network, but first, let me start by introducing myself. My name is Parvisha Dhruv and have been part of this lovely community for the past six years. I started out as a GSoc student and I'm currently a member of the Katie Network Working Group. I'm also part of the Katie Network Advisory Committee, the Katie Promo Team and a standing member of the Katie EV. With me today, we have Anika Kokkar, one of the founding members of Katie Network, Thomas Kanabrava. He has been very active in engaging the Katie Network chapter in Brazil and Eshwarya K.K. She is actually one of the pilot programs for Katie Network in Kerala. But before we go ahead in knowing more about the Katie Network chapters and the pilot project, we'll do that later in a discussion, in panel discussion round, but we wanted to give a bit of context about how Katie Network came to be. Katie is always in search of bringing new and fresh ideas by involving new contributors in our community. And for that, we have Google Summer of Code, our very own season of Katie. We even have a welcome chat group in metrics so that new members that join Katie have a welcoming environment where they can feel free to ask questions. In addition, we have been improving our documentation and have been making our websites more appealing. And of course, we host Katie Academy Every Year, which is the largest meetup of Katie developers all across the world. But we wanted to pivot our focus on three main goals with Katie Network. We wanted to diversify our community. We wanted to increase our end users and even we wanted to create brand awareness. These three are the tenants from which Katie Network was originally developed across. Diversifying our community, we wanted to make sure that we reach underserved, underrepresented communities that maybe countries with STEM fields, careers are still the minority of careers. We wanted to focus an increasing number of women in our community by making sure that, by making sure that they feel that they have a home with KDE and they can begin to contribute to the open source community with us. And the way to achieve this, we wanted to create a grassroots level chapters in small communities across the world. We're one of the two, one or two KDE members from a local team, form a local team and host meetups and spread the word about KDE to students and developers. A second goal, increasing end users. We want to increase our end users and we feel that there is an untapped market where Katie is not reaching and for that we wanted to target educational institutes. We have amazing products that we think would benefit students across each spectrum. And for that we also, we should provide translation and localization to reach across the language spectrum and for that, and most importantly, we wanted different countries to adopt KDE very easily. Alaska would be creating brand awareness. We create some amazing, amazing products like Krita, KDE and Live, KDE Plasma environment and many more. And we think that we have a lot of users but not many people know about KDE or maybe I can frame it in a different way that not many people know as much as they should know about KDE. I feel like there are a lot of people who haven't given KDE a shot and if we increase our brand awareness then we might get a lot of end users and we might make sure that KDE becomes a household name. And for that, we believe that we can achieve it by increasing our social media presence. Annika and Paul have been working regressly for this and we should always tag them for that. And so this is all about KDE Network and it's three goals. Now we would like to move on over our panel discussion round where we're gonna start talking about what KDE Network has done in the past and where we're going in the future. And I want to start by asking Eshwarya about her pilot chapter in Kerala. Hi Eshwarya. Hi. So Eshwarya, I would like to know what was going through your mind when we accepted Kerala as the pilot project and how did you form the team? Because you were in France. How did you do that? Yeah, so to start with before answering the questions for those who don't know Kerala is a small state in the southern parts of India with around 34 million people and the official language of the state is Malaya. So I will use Malaya during the discussion. So it's the language of Kerala. So what were my views? I considered it as a very good opportunity of course because I think when an international community like KDE give voice or attention towards a smaller community or a smaller population that can add certain values to the larger community and to the smaller community which is very important, I think. And though it was an exciting thought but then it was a series of questions or how we start, how we can organize, how which kind of values we want to add in which area and how can we done that? Those kinds of a series of questions but it was nice to have KDE network meetings a bit frequently to gain more confidence or to change opinions or change views and perspectives. And then another big question was now I have to find more volunteer time and that was a haunting thought. But in the end, after processing all these questions I contacted Tubin. He's the coordinator of the KDE Malayalam Translate Shantin and of course I was sure that he would be interested because I have seen that he and his friends were conducting Translate Tone for KDE and they were promoting very much KDE in such different free software groups like I thought he was very interested and we decided to move forward. And so it was him who added more people because he's living in Kerala so he has more updates about what is going on in different free software communities and who would be interested in KDE. So he added Sriram, Kannan and Akhil. This is the core group for now and the KDE Malayalam group has the channel, metric channel or telegram channel has around 150 people. So yeah, I think it was a good start. It was great. Okay, so I would also like to know that what was the first task you did for this project? We started with localization of translations of Plasma Workspace and bit of localizations and translations. Because G-Compre was, I already started this translation of G-Compre but there was a lot of things to localize like letters, alphabets and I had to add different levels for Malayalam language. So that was the first task and we decided to do, and it's still going on. The task is, I mean there's a lot of things to translate so it's going on. And we decided to focus on the localization efforts because we felt that we are not well equipped, not for the university students because in Kerala all the university students are okay with English language, but for common people, for example, last year in Academy Talk, maybe some of you may, so Ambadi was presenting a talk about a daily newspaper moving towards complete free software workflow in Kerala. So, and more newspapers are interested to go towards 100% free software workflow with Plasma. They are using Plasma Workspace and a lot of KD steps and other free softwares too. But for these kinds of achievements to achieve more sectors, we really need to localize and to give the common people not very, people not very easy with English to have easy access and easy way to be in and to you as a user too. So that's why we choose to start with translation. Sorry, that was a long answer. I forgot. And we all know Kerala is a place where open source is given a lot of importance. Was it easier for you to start this pilot project? Yes, Kerala is a very fertile ground for free software and the state government, the Kerala state government has acknowledged the relevance of free software as early as 2001. And in 2007, the government released an information and communication technology policy in which one of the objective was highly concentrated on free software. I would like to read out that part. The government realizes that free software presents a unique opportunity in building a truly egalitarian knowledge society. The government will take all efforts to develop free software and free knowledge and shall encourage and mandate the appropriate use of free software in all ICT initiatives. So I don't need to talk a lot on that topic. So it was indeed, it's not really hard to talk about free software in general. But these achievements are gained through a lot of struggles and there are a lot of free software activists, a lot of free software communities and there were even protests by teachers community against teaching proprietary software. These kinds of things happens and so the community is very political. So it has its own, so it's in a way it's very easy to start a free software initiative there, but it has its own challenges too. For now, to start with, we didn't have big issues because we are a small group and we all know that all are interested in KDE and what KDE, bigger community of KDE, how it is and all. That was easy, but then the hadals came after, I would say recently during academy what I think is now the bigger community maybe thinking that it is our efforts, the KDE network is the reason to include all these KDE application in the education system, but please don't forward this narrative because that could be ignoring a lot of years of struggles and fights from other activists. So if you put forward this narrative that will be hard for us, the KDE network to grow there because of political discussions and issues. So that could be a hadal, but now I think as I presented it, it's okay. So everyone knows that it is not mainly as it started. So all the initiatives are from long time struggle and of course we worked for better men in improvement and for example, they were using G company of Norm Washington, all GTK Washington. So we tried to move to Qt version. So things like that happened, but still the major grassroots things were started before. So we didn't have a lot of struggle in that part. And another, so the difficulty starts actually in April for us. We have been a bit inactive since April. Like you may all know that it's really hard time for India, like many other countries in the world due to COVID-19, socially, economically and all. So this has affected a lot, the team and our activities too. And we were kind of depressed, I would say. And then, but now it's okay, we are getting better. We will try to reactivate soon. And though we were inactive in the sense as a collective, but we were in all in our personal level, we were contributing or continuing our contributions. Yeah, I think, yeah, that's it. Okay, great. Thank you. Thank you so much Ashwarya. Now I would like to ask Thomas about the Brazilian Network chapter. So, Tamiz, hi. I wanted to know what does Brazil think about open source and was it easy for you to start the Brazilian Network chapter? I'm so sorry, Tamiz, we cannot hear you. I suppose Thomas is trying to reconnect again. So give it a minute. We can hear you. Apparently it does not work on Firefox and MyMachine for some reason. So I don't think that it's ever easy on any country because even when the government is okay and even when the universities are okay and we try to start the chapter, not a lot of people will try to go there. So we always have just two little people to work on. I am trying to get developers in Brazil for at least 16 years. And currently the CAE Brazil chapter has 10 developers. And I think that I have more than 3,000 students that I've paid for my pocket should travel to their series and then should teach them how to develop for open source doing a really long, like 40 hours to 80 hours long course on all of the tooling bash gits, C++, Qt, getting from the start, ground basics to fully feature a developer in 80 hours. We do have, and I think that we are like one of the biggest countries in number of developers, we have 10 people. I think that it's improving right now mostly because I'm open for people that are not only interested in CAE. I say to them that I will help them do whatever they want if it is open source for free. This is helping. But when it was just I want to help you only if you do open source, this feels like a little bit of a threat and Brazilian people are a little bit combative. So if you say that I will only help you if you do this, they will not do anything. They will try to combat with you. They will try to show you that they also have strength and that will overcome nothing. So right now I'm helping people on GNOME, I'm helping people on XFCE. It's easier for me if I help them on KD because I already know how to work within KD and I don't need to waste my time learning so I can teach them. But it's working, it's growing. We got three people doing their bachelor tests and their master inside of KD technologies which is really good. Now the, I also got two teachers trying to use KD software within and I've also got one teacher trying to make, to get one of applications that he developed inside of KD. So this is doing great. We feel that a few of the universities are coming to us for help instead of us going to them begging for their acceptance. And this is really good. This is really cool. Basically this is my answer. Yeah, it is so great. And I've heard that you were doing some projects for the Brazilian network chapter. Like if I'm not wrong, something regarding the PONDA project or something. What is that about?  Okay, yeah. So I'm saying that we've heard that you were doing a project, a few projects for the KD network team, the Prazi network. So it's something, it talked about the PONDA or something. I'm not sure the whole name. Yeah, let me get the link here. So this software here that I'm pasting on the chats, if I find the chat panel found it. So Poyard PONDA, this is a software created by the University of São Paulo. One of the students that worked on the software got in contact with us in the KD Brazil development channel on Telegram. And he said that, we have the software, it works. It is good. We would like to see how hard it would be to get on KD right now. And it's extremely hard. It's extremely hard because they have some stuff on their CI that we can't provide yet. So we are working, instead of KDs, so we can provide their things and we are also working with them so we can make the software up to standards to what KD requires. So we are working on both sides. The software is really good. It is for teaching circuits and circuit logic, so Boolean logic in how to draw circuits in a way that it's not professional software, but it's specifically for teaching and a lot of universities are missing that. I don't think that we will actually be able to move the software to KD this year because on KD we are missing the CI on GitLab and I know that Ben is working quite hard on that, not just Ben, but Ben and all of the seasoned vins. So this is one software. The other software that we are working on is the KD Plasma Firewall that was done with me, Caio Caipoli Berlich, and also Lucas Januário from the University of São Carlos. Forget the name sometimes. I'm too long without speaking Portuguese. And he was doing his masters on top of the firewall which is quite cool because then he actually managed to do two things at once. That is help open source and help his university graduation. Besides that, we are also working on console. So because I am one of the main developers of console and it's one of the things that I'm touching, the most people ask me, how can I jump on KD code in a way that you can actually help me a lot because I am a newcomer. I said, man, I'm touching console every single day. So if you jump there, I will probably see your code really fast. So we had three people join there on console and submitting a lot of codes. And one of the best thing that console got this year, the tax reflow was made by one of those students and he got a job because of the work that he did on console which is also really cool for me because it shows that working on free software will boost your resume and then companies will realize that you are a good developer and then work. Yeah, that's true. So that was great. Thank you so much, Thomas. And now I would like to ask Anika, the founding member of KD Network. Hello, Anika. Hi.  Okay, so it's originally not my idea. When I started my career, I was working for a company for a non-for-profit organization. So I was handling the Middle East and the UK chapter, but after that, we found a lot of people who wanted to support from other countries and we started developing over there. So this idea clicked to me that if they can do it, and I'm from Pakistan, it was happening in Pakistan and we had chapters all over the world in the US, UK, Canada. So then why not let's supply this idea to KDE because KDE has people all over the world. Of course, we have mostly in Europe and we want to improve the diversity. So let's try it. So that's how the idea came up and we thought India as the pilot study because on LinkedIn, we have most of the viewers from India. So that's how we decided for India. Oh, okay. So we know that our next chapter is going to be in China. How did you contact them and how did you form this team? Okay, so it happened was those connected me to two people from to actually run. Her name is Mina and then she connected us to Burgess. So Mina and Burgess are basically handling China network and now they have started having events, but not now, but soon we are going to have an event over there where we would like people from KDE to have docs and we will be also participating in other events in China so that we can attract more students and users. So that's how actually China started but now of course, we are having a little bit of language barrier but hopefully soon we'll be able to overcome that as well. Okay. And once this China network starts properly, any talks about our next chapter? Okay, I think we need help from the community because that's how everything has started because people start coming up that, okay, there's a potential in this market. If they think that, okay, they can actually help us and support us because we need people who are committed towards this cause. We don't want people who just come today and say after a month that we can't do it. So if anybody, maybe from Bangladesh or Malaysia, Africa, anywhere, if you think that you can start a chapter in your country or city, please connect to us and we will surely help you and we'll let you know how you can start with it. Great. I still vividly remember Nika when we were planning about this KDE network, you were focusing so much on the diversifying our community. And you had such amazing ideas. So what made you say, thing that, okay, this thing will work in KDE? Okay, so one of our goal is to increase diversity. And if you see that we have majority, if you would even see mostly we have, I would say European males. And that was something in my mind that I have to somehow bring more women and people from different cultures and community to represent. Now you can see on the screen there are three women. Yes. That was my goal that, okay, I have to bring in more women. And I feel that, especially we three can relate that India and Pakistan, we feel that IT is one of the field and engineering is one of the field that we see mostly men and boys studying over there. And females are usually not encouraged to like such kind of fields. So I felt that if they see that, okay, for example, if Ms. Sveria has come and join us, maybe she's starting this in Kerala, a lot of women will be inspired by it. That's true. Yes, so that is amazing. Thank you so much for bringing the skating network project over here. Thank you for actually helping me. Otherwise this idea wouldn't have been successful. No, thank you. Thank you so much, Anika. And thank you, everyone. Please feel free to ask any questions if anyone has. Hello, your question person for today. Yeah. Hi. Hi. So we have two questions. In fact, the first one from Paul, do you know how Kerala governments became interested and educated in free software matters? Were there activists that informed them of their advantages? Yeah, so there was different perspective when the government started to decide, sorry, decided to use computers in public staffs and in schools. There was a public call and the response was from Microsoft, a Wacker and a free software community group. It was Linux user group, a Linux user group. So there was debate and it was free software who won the debate. So naturally free software won the debate because then the first thing is you don't need so to have Microsoft government should spend a lot of money. And the second thing is about Windows was not localized. There was no Malayalam in the stock. So, but Linux distributions were localized fast enough from the beginning. So it was a very good point to gain the one that debate. And then the activists were working towards with some teachers communities, teachers political parties and communities. So I think teachers could connect that faster and that's how there was a lot of protests and that's how all started, I guess. I'm not sure I was, I think from my readings. Yes. Very, very, very interesting, especially to have the user groups, the local free software user group is so involved. So that's really nice to hear. And also from personal point of view, it's interesting to hear the localization point being so important. So I'm happy for that. Okay, another question from David. Can Kerala be a model for growth in the rest of India or do other states demand unique strategies? It's already in other states. They are using, for example, Tamil Nadu. It has already migrated to free software, I think. At least I saw in the teachers training, they were teaching how to use recovery to teach staffs and how to use K-stars or they were using K-Life, Kruta, so obviously Tamil Nadu and I guess, and all the other states too moving towards it. I'm not sure it's because of Kerala, but there are a lot of free software communities here and there in India, like who come with me or more, but yes, so they are all moving towards and some are already migrated. Thanks. Another question from Alesh. How are we fixing the language problem to approach the Chinese community? So what I am doing right now is that I'm in contact with Mina and Burgess and we have actually made, we tried the same thing for Malayalam as well, but because in India, everybody understands English, but in China, that's not the case. So what we are doing is that we are going to translate each and every document which we have in Chinese, so it is much easier for them to understand about KDE. So all our presentations, all our basic stuff which we have about KDE is going to be translated. We have a separate page. Right now we have it in English, but we are going to have it in Chinese as well. Good. There is also another question which could be, if there are no other questions in the meantime, a good conclusion in this. How do I help in making regional communities? Okay, so we have channels, KDE network. You just have to join there and suggest which city and country you think has potential and then we can discuss it and we can take it further. If you know that there is potential, there are a lot of people interested in free software and then we can take it forward together. Thank you. Thank you so much. I don't see any other question. Right now, we technically have a few other minutes before the last talk. I'm not sure if Adam is around and would like to. Of course I'm around, of course I'm around. Yes, sorry, sorry if I doubted you, sorry. Thank you, thank you Liji. Thank you everyone from the KDE network session, talk.


The Cavalcade of America. Sowing Thomas Mitchell in direction home on the Cavalcade of America, sponsored by the DuPont Company. Maker of better things for better living through chemistry. But first, here is Gaines Whitman. Before we begin our play, here is news about DuPont Z-Land durable repellent finish. Is your raincoat a washout? It is if it's lost its water repellency at the cleaners, leaving you damp and uncomfortable during stormy weather. The next time you buy rainwear or snow clothes, be sure to look for the tag that says fabric treated with DuPont Z-Land durable repellent finish. Unlike ordinary water repellents, Z-Land withstands many washings or cleanings. It's an example of what we mean when we say DuPont better things for better living through chemistry. The DuPont Company presents direction home starring Thomas Mitchell as Jerry Sweeney on the Cavalcade of America. Radar. The magic eye that saw ships, planes and submarines long before the human eye could detect their presence was a wartime weapon of both defense and offense. Tonight's story tells of one instance in which radar saved rather than aided in destroying. It begins in December of 1941 in the Brooklyn flat of Jerry Sweeney. Jerry, age 58, late of the United States Navy, is reading the Sunday paper. That's the end of it. The end of it, I tell you. The end of what, Dad? The end of sitting back and saying, let them fight it out in Europe. I'm telling you, Eve Darlin, that as sure as I'm a foot high and as sure as my name is Jerry Sweeney, we're going to be ranked under this wall. Oh, now, Dad, don't get so excited at what you're reading the paper. Oh, don't get so excited, she says. No, I'll sit back and smoke my pipe and remember there's a couple of thousand miles of motion between us in Europe. Well, you just mark your father's words, those couple of thousand miles will shrink until they ain't no bigger than the East River. Oh, darling, you're so serious these days. Look in the headlines, and you can see that these times are no laughing matter. All right, all right, all right.  Yes, Everett should be here any minute. Yeah, the great Mr. Matthews. Still secret and important, no doubt. Dad, for heaven's sake, every time Everett comes over, you start an argument. There's no argument, sweetheart. To have an argument, there must be two sides to the question.  Eve, darling, look at the boys already in uniform, all fine lads.   All right, what is it, darling? Well, I don't know how to say it.  Yeah, I think I know what's coming. I've been dreading this moment, and I'm afraid my answer is no. Dad, please. Now look, sweetheart, there's no one in the world wants to see you happy more than your old father. You're singing and you're laughing as music to me ears. You know that, don't you? But that's why I want you to like Everett. Mind you, Eve, I'm not saying I dislike the man. It's just that I, well, I don't want a daughter of mine, marrying a man that keeps her mom about himself and what he's doing for a living. Especially as a girl who's hoping to marry. But it's a time, Dad. He's doing secret work. How long do you think I could have kept the secret from your mother, rest her soul? She'd have brained me. Oh, Everett's work is confidential, very important. He's doing work for the government. And why doesn't he wear a uniform? Does he tell you anything about it? You don't even know where he works. Now do you. Answer me now. You don't know, do you? No. No. But I have faith in Everett. I love him.  Well, no. No, I can't very well. Now can I? Oh, now that's Everett. Please be nice to him. Promise me. Well, you just go let him in and I'll be listening to the radio if I can get the blame thing to work. All right, all right, coming. Morning, dear. Oh, flowers. Thank you, darling. And Canada back up your father. Have you softened him up, darling? Well, I tried to a few minutes ago. He's in living room trying to get the radio to work. Mm-hmm. Shall I beard the lion in his den, then? No, it's as good a time as any. Oh, wish me luck, darling. And you better leave the front door open just in case. Uh, good afternoon, Mr. Sweeney. Oh, it's you. It is. Well, I'll stand there like a nox. Come over by the radio and sit down. Uh, thank you. You're supposed to know something about these confounder confounders, aren't you? Yes, sir, that's my business. And why won't this thing play? Well, let me have a look. It works when I want it to. I'll see what I can do. We might try plugging it in. Well, I'll be... Oh, well. Well, plug it in, plug it in. Now let me hear what you came in to ask me. Oh, you mean... Yeah, well, uh, Mr. Sweeney, I, uh... Oh, come on, darling, we've had our differences. But Eve's heart and happiness are more to me than just an old man's fancies and whims. Well, uh, I guess you know that I love Eve. Well, who could help but love a girl like Eve? Yeah. Well, I, uh... Well, the radio's coming on. Japanese planes have attacked our great naval base at Pearl Harbor. What's that? Apparently came from carriers that sneaked up during the night. Did you hear that? Yeah. There has been undisclosed damage to certain ships of the fleet. The enemy air base was also attacked. The many planes destroyed on the ground. What's that there? Our further news stay tuned to your NBC station. That's a bomb-quill hopper. Well... I guess the old man wasn't so wrong after all, huh? I told you so. I've seen it coming. We should have done something about it. We did, Mr. Sweeney. We did everything in our power to get ready for it. Everything, all that spit and nonsense. The water's been leaking through the hole in the dam for a long time. Now it's finally torn it down. It means we're at war. What do you do, Everett? Do? Well, I hadn't thought about it. Why hadn't you thought about it? It's about time you did. Well, it all depends on... On what? How you feel. Please, Dad, don't, not now. All right, but it seems to me that now's the time to be making up our minds. Not saying it all depends. Mr. Sweeney, I never told you this before, but the work I've been doing is for the war we knew was coming. It's important. Secret work. Scientific. Scientific, my foot. Wars are fought with guns and blood, heart, and fists. Not with test tubes and gadgets I think it's in a laboratory, a glass office. This is a scientific war, Mr. Sweeney. It'll be won in a scientific laboratory. Go on with it. That's not for me. I'm going on and getting it. Dad, what are you going to do? Do. For 30 odd years I was at sea in the last war and after. For those years I learned the sea and ships. And we've been eating ships in this war too and men who know them. That's what I'll do. And I'll not sit in a glass office and paddle about science. Look, Mr. Sweeney, I'm not... You have your views, Mr. Matthew, and I am mine. They don't jive that's all. Dad, you're being silly. I'm with them and with God's help I'll keep being silly. I'm going out and do whatever able-bodied, red-blooded American should be doing. I'm joining up. Darling, where's your father? Oh, he's asking madly around town trying to enlist. Of course, no one will have him. Well, 58 to the low. Um, Everett. Yes, sir.  I'd like to, he believed me, but I just can't. Well, if you'd only tell me what you're doing, it's not true anything to make Dad understand. Look, I've told you before, I do highly important work. It's strictly secret. All I can say is it has to do with electronics. But what is that, is that... I can't tell you, Eve. Even if I could, you wouldn't understand. It's very technical. Something that may shorten the war by months, maybe years. Oh, here comes Dad. I think you better go. Oh, no, he's not going to scare me out today. I'm no trouble, no argument. Oh, are you there? Oh, are you so? You're sounding salty. Well, I'm feeling right salty this evening. How do you like to get up? Dad, I accepted you. I thought the Navy turned you down. Good evening, Mr. Swinney. Sure, the Navy did turn me down, but it's able seamen are needing to sail the ships of the Merchant Marine. Merchant Marine? That's me, the Merchant Marine. Blow the man down, boys. Be careful, darling. You're no longer a young man. A man is no older than he feels at his heart. So long as there's fight lifting him, a man is young. How old are you, Mr. Matthews? Old enough, Mr. Swinney. Good.  Very well, sir. I'll wait in the other room later. All right. Mm-hmm. Dad, you're not leaving right away. That I am, Eve, darling. It's men they're needing these days to man the ships that carry the supplies. But why do you have to go? Now, at your age, it's just... Somebody's got to fight the war.  Dad, I worry about you every minute you're gone. Yeah, I'll be thinking of you, Eve. When do you sail? Dad, I can't tell you. Even if I knew, I wouldn't be a liberty to say. I've got to be on board this very night. Oh, dear. Oh, no, no. Brace up, girl. The mother'll ever let me see tears. She may have cried after I left, but never when I was even. I don't mean to cry, sir. I know. Oh, I know. Now, buddy, girl, put the luck of the Irish out and be back. Don't forget, her Swinney's have a family leprechaun that looks out for us and speeds us safely back to port. Oh, come on now. Smile. And that's it. Come on. You've got to help me pack my seat bag. Okay. And our girl. And don't forget, be praying for me, but be saving your tears for those that need them. Eve, darling. Oh, why did Dad have to go? Isn't there something I can do? Something you can do. You should ask me that. Yes, I know. Eve, dear, believe me, it'd be easier for me to be in uniform, but it just isn't in the cards. They won't let me. Well, they're going to let me. What do you mean? Just as soon as the mistman's open, I'm joining the way. Eve, I know just how you feel, and I'm not going to try to change your mind. But there's one thing I'd like to ask. When you enlist, try to get in radar. Then maybe you'll understand how important it is and why I'm sticking to the job in the laboratory until it's finished. Here at Sea Dodging, suffers from Liverpool to Mermen's. A rack of a book and a sweet music and a year. Yeah, right you are. Time out. Here we are. Come on, Betty. I'll show you the coziest flattened Brooklyn. Are you sure your daughter would object to you dragging an old shipmate home with you? No. I could always find a snuggler at the seamen's rest. Uh-oh, look, sweetie. Coming down the stairs. It's one of them lady-saters with spikes. Well, I'll be. Dad, I had your home. Oh, Eve, darling. Oh, darling. Oh, my baby, my dear sweet darling girl.   What's the meaning of this get-up? I'm in the way, Dad. And an officer she is. An officer. An ensign. Well, blown me down. Thirty odd years I sailed and came out a cheap boat and my slip of a daughter is an officer. Now! Now you see what the Navy's coming to? I don't think I've met your friend, Dad. Oh, this is Benny Jarvis. My daughter, Eve. Is this where I'm supposed to salute? And if it is, this is where I shall go. Oh, no, Benny, we'll just shake hands. Women officers! Too much for me. I'm going to the seamen's rest. Oh, come back, Benny.  Show your manners. Have no mind, darling. Even in that uniform, you look good to your old father. Oh, darling. You look so tired. And why not? Seven voyages and each one worse than the last. But we're getting the supplies through. You should be here at home. Look, girl, I'm only 59. No age for a man to sit with his nose in the paperwell with a war going on. That's been awful, darling. It's been hell, darling.  Wolf packs of subs and devils from the sky. But I'm here in one piece. Home in my old flat. Thank the Lord. Oh, uh, just a minute, Dad. You may not like this, but, uh, Evert's here. What? That white-furthered friend of yours? I thought you put the run on him. Well, I did, Father, but I was wrong. Well, if he's here, I'm not going in. Yes, you are. No, I'm not. I'll go back there. Oh, no, you don't. You're going to stay right here until you hear whatever it has to say for himself. You were listening to Thomas Mitchell as Jerry Sweeney in Direction Home on the capital gate of America, sponsored by the DuPont Company, maker of better things for better living through chemistry. As our second act begins, Jerry Sweeney of the United States Merchant Marine has come home from a year at sea. His daughter Eve, now an ensign in the waves, is about to tell her father something that may not make his leave so pleasant. Evert's here. Well, Dad Sweeney of all people, welcome home. Don't be calling me, Dad. I'm no father to the likes of you. Oh, well, I'm sorry, Mr. Sweeney. Seaman, Sweeney, to you. Evert is with the Navy, too, Father. And why any in the uniform? Well, you see, he... Well, that is... Evert's trying to tell you that I'm a civilian employee of the Navy. Civilian employee? Who ever heard of such a thing? Either you're in the Navy or not. Now, which is it? Well, officially, I'm not. You see, I'm... Don't tell me anything. I'll go. My sea bag is still packed. That won't be necessary, sir. I'm due back at the laboratories.  Mr. Sweeney, the job I'm doing is an important one for the Navy. If you won't listen to a reasonable explanation, then there's no use of my wasting time and breath. I'll see you at the shop, Dad. Evert, don't be upset. How can I help it with such a stubborn old bird breath? Mr. Sweeney, I'll see you after the war. Well, he's getting some smoke about him. He'll be one to fight if he keeps that up. Dad, don't you realize that whatever it's doing is important? So important that no one will realize it until after the war? Look, Eve, I've seen fine young lads choking an oil and burning, soaked in blood and drowning with the agony of salt water in their lungs. While the man you're defending sits in his glass office. He even has the gall to sit idle while the woman he intends to marry is in uniform. Now, Dad, please, please calm you down. The very sight of that chair warmer... Well, I had to think my daughter would stand for the likes of him. Where are those old pipes of mine? My dandadrone. Fine, how do you do when a man comes home to... Hey. What's this? Oh, well, Father, I wanted to tell you... Well, now, now, ain't this fine then, Dandy? A wedding certificate and married to that white feather bird. But, Father, I love him. Say no more. I've had enough. Dad, come back here. Do you hear me? Come back here. You couldn't get me to spend one minute in this flat. I'm going back to the Trinidad and wait till she sails. Oh, darling, how's Anson Sweeney today? Anson Matthews is doing fine. Any work from your dad? No, not a word since he sailed last week. He's aboard the Trinidad. That's about all I know. Oh, well, I got the new radar scope installed in the test plane. Ready for the tryout. It'll be a good day for him this fall. Yeah, eyes are blind flying. Oh, I wish Dad could see this and know what you're doing. Well, he will someday. Oh, Matthews? Yeah. How close to ready is that plane installation of the new radar scope? Ready any time, Commander. I'm going to have to use it right now. They have a radio dispatch that a Liberty ship took a torpedo in the stern, just off the coast. Oh. There have been casualties, including the medical corpsman. They have to fly a surgeon out. What's the bearing? We have only an approximate fix and can't improve it. She's laying out there in the fog, maintaining radio silence to keep that sub from finishing her. One of the crews badly hit. They have to bring him back to the base hospital for X-rays before they can operate. So it's a matter of life and death. The radar scope's all ready. Finding that ship in the fog would be like hunting the proverbial needle in the haystack. Ah, we can do it. The installation's in and ready. We're waiting for the test flight anyway. Now you get to do it for keeps. You're sure it'll work? Positive. I'll let it better, or Seaman Sweeney's a dead duck. Seaman Sweeney? What's the name of that ship? The Liberty ship, Crinidad. Oh, it's Dad. Seaman Sweeney is Ensign Matthew's father, sir. Oh, I'm sorry. Commander, I know it's against the book, but is there any way that it could possibly go along? You see, Father and I... Hey, don't see how. Commander, we need Ensign Matthews. She's an experienced radar technician. Well, Lieutenant Peters, the pilot, is a pretty good job. If Ensign Matthews should happen to be aboard when you take off... Thank you, Commander. Come on, E. We'll check the radar while they're warming up the plane. Ensign the Lieutenant to the area from where the Trinidad was last reported. Okay. Hey, who's away? Radar technician. There's another reason for her being here. It's a good one, Lieutenant. Okay. Hey, this fog blanket is a good 4,000 feet thick. Think that radar gadget will work? I know it will. I can see how radar can pick up 1,000 planes in the air, especially if you know where they're coming from. But how do you expect to pick up one little ship on all this ocean? The principle's the same. For instance. Well, look, this generator keeps on sending out electronic waves. Yeah. They bounce back from the ocean or anything on the ocean, and we can read the outline on the scope here. Huh. Through all this fog? Yeah, through the fog. That's a good trick if you can do it. We can do it. Are you sure that scope is right? I know it is. Nothing's shown up. I don't see how you're going to pick up anything as small as a liberty ship in that thing. Look, watch the scope. Huh? Yeah. There is something. In the first quadrant. All right. Where do we get another sweep on the indicator? There. There it is again. It's got to be the ship. Lieutenant, circle over to the northeast. Right. Something else showing up on the scope. Hey, look. Be sure you're right. I can't see a thing in this fog. Okay. Start down. Yeah. And keep circling the way you are. Talk about blind flying. But you're not blind, man. You got eyes. Eyes you've never had before. Keep going down. We're below 2,000 feet now. Good. There's nothing else around but the twin of that. I hope it's the Trinidad. 1,000 feet. All right. Take it down to 500 feet. Sweep the section again. Still on the scope. That fog is down to the water, Matthews. Now what? Keep dropping. When you're 50 feet above the water, when you're sort of down. Brother, if you can find a liberty ship on this ocean without gadgets, I'll sit this baby down anytime you give the word. 100 feet. It came through just in time, Doctor. We were not ready to give up hope. That new radar scope brought us through, Captain. Our corpsmen have the situation under control. Dr. Hendrick. Yes, Ensign? What about my father, Doctor? I want the truth. Well, he's not a youngster, you know. That's not Irish hardest keeping him alive. If we can fly him back to the base hospital for X-rays, we should be able to operate and save him. Lieutenant, can you fly this patient to shore? Well, the radar got us here. You ought to be able to get us back. Where am I? You're aboard a Navy plane, Dad. We're flying you back to the base hospital.  Oh, no. It wasn't a leprechaun. Worse, our man in the glass office. Our man in the glass office? What do you mean? Ah, man. Where's Everett? In the radar scope. Oh. Radar brought us out to your ship.  Oh, and I suppose this plane has nothing to do with him. Of course, Doc. But in his fog, the pilot could see nothing and the plane could go nowhere without radar. Oh. That's what's ever been working on these past three years. I see. Oh, I've been a stubborn old fool, Eve. When I see the lead, I'll tell him. Tell him now, darling. He's right beside you. Huh? He's what? Oh. Oh, so it's you, is it? Uh-huh. What are you doing on this Navy plane? I work for the Navy. Remember? Of course you do, son. And it's well aware of it I am. Finally. Well, it takes a good man to down the bitter pillow and own up to a mistake. I was wrong. Love was right as it always is. Oh, let me sleep. When I'm rested, son, I'll end in the air so you can tell me all about your radar. Radar. Leprechaun that show us the direction of home. Return to our cavalcade microphone in a moment. Now, here is Gaines Whitman. Like a little girl who had never seen a cow and thought that milk came from milk bottles. Most of us, when we think of meat, think of a butcher's counter. But our national meat supply includes 250 million pounds of wild game every year. Some farmers in the New England states, for instance, shoot a deer and hang it up to freeze for a regular thing every winter. Part of the family's supply. Venison, rabbit, pheasant, wild duck. How'd you like some roast wild duck? Listen to this recipe. Clean, wipe, and dry the ducks. Sprinkle generously with flour, salt, and pepper. Place a whole peeled onion inside each duck and place them in self-basing roaster. Batten with toothpicks two or three strips of bacon across each bird. If desired, ducks may be stuffed with wild rice dressing. Made by boiling wild rice and seasoning with salt, pepper, and chopped onions. Or use other favorite dressing. Cover bottom of roaster with water. Cover tightly and roast in oven at 350 degrees Fahrenheit for one and one-half to two hours, depending on the number and size of duck. Remove cover of roaster 15 or 20 minutes before taking from oven to allow skin to brown. Serve with orange sauce if desired. Now, let's see what orange sauce is. Here it is. Butter, flour, brown stock, salt, cayenne pepper, orange juice, and grated orange rind, two tablespoons of sherry or port. Melt butter and add flour and seasoning stirring until well-brown. Slowly add stock. Yeah, we'd better stop. It's hard to, though. So, here's baked peasants. Mixed game pie, fried rabbit and hushing pepper, royal venison, steaks and chops, caribou collops, roast bear, mulligan. I'm reading from how to dress, ship, and cook wild game, a 48-page book prepared by the Remington Arms Company and the associate of the DuPont Company. There are wild birds in our skies and wild game in our forests, thanks to the fact that America has learned the wisdom of conservation. Practical programs of restoration are so widely carried out and so constantly improved that a plentiful supply of game seems assured. A copy of the interesting Little Remington Book, how to dress, ship, and cook wild game, may be had by writing to the DuPont Company. Just enclose a dime and send your name and address to the video section, DuPont Company, Wilmington, Delaware. Good night and good hunting. Here is Thomas Mitchell. You know, in the cavalcade of America, some of the brighter stories are the true ones. Stories of men whose lives have given some special benefit to their country and their contemporaries. Next week, cavalcade will be telling one of the most rollicking of those stories, of a gay and gallant man who earned his living by writing for the newspapers. But whose lasting work was in writing poetry that all of us have loved.  I had a preview of the script, so I've made my plans to be listening. I hope you will be too, for you won't want to miss Henry Fonda as Eugene Field in Big Boy Blue on the DuPont cavalcade of America. Terrible as the war was, we have almost as terrible scourge still to contend with. The scourge is TB, tuberculosis, which during the war and still today is killing Americans at the rate of one every nine minutes. You can help the fight against TB by buying more Christmas seals this year than ever before. In tonight's DuPont cavalcade, Thomas Mitchell appeared through the courtesy of 20th Century Fox Film Corporation and can currently be seen in the motion picture production Captain Eddie. And Howard Duff was Everett. The music was composed and conducted by Robert Armbruster. A cavalcade play was written by Russell Hughes and Bernard Fine. The technical information about the use of radar in tonight's story was furnished by the US Army Signal Corps. This is Dom Collins inviting you to listen next week to Henry Fonda in Big Boy Blue on the cavalcade of America. Brought to you by the DuPont Company of Wilmington, Delaware.