Hey everyone, this is Dr. Ruscio today. I'm here with Ryan Cornette who has read healthy gut healthy you and had some good results from going through the book protocol and Ryan thanks for being here today and sharing your story. Absolutely. Thank you for having me on Can you tell people a little bit about okay before you read the book? You know had you done paleo or never heard of paleo or had you tried five different diets or? Probably actually tell people kind of the context of before you jumped into the book Yeah, um, honestly, I've been kind of going out this diet thing for almost a decade now I jumped in a nutrition and I felt like I did myself more harm than good You know, I tried I tried all the crazy diets growing up in a health food store working there which eventually led me to a raw vegan diet and My stomach just was not happy with that couldn't digest the food. I ended up moving to Hawaii and I was living on a farm and the only thing that would make my stomach feel better at that time was Incorporating some raw dairy some local eggs and starting to do some meat and some kind of like nurturing nutrients at that point so I Started to incorporate more protein into my diet more animal foods and I started to feel better But I just still had this kind of lackluster digestion. I Was still trying to figure that out at that point I went on the diet fad craze. I tried every diet every book you name it. I've tried it I've been there. I've been an extremist a zealot and they all made me feel a little bit better But I still had that residual kind of gas bloating and digestion moodiness after big meals So at that point I Actually went in and did some testing and I did a stool test gi map and I came back with Giardia actually and The physician that I was working with he thought it could be from the water that I had drank You know being in Hawaii. I lived in Costa Rica as well. So You know I kind of dove in With several different protocols on my own Started working with the physician. He helped me a little bit as well, but you know the thing I really loved about your book dr. Ruchio is that It's a very level-headed approach that you took towards this whole gut microbiome and You really made me feel human again with your book to be honest because I I went through so many protocols I've been doing the every diet Every guru every podcast I could ever listen to forever and your book was the first kind of condensed Format that put it into a simple Step, you know the great Nate plan and it really allowed you to work through it But not only to work through it, but to say hey listen if you're not better at say step three or four you know take a step back and reassess, you know, what's working what's not working and There's two quotes from your book I don't know if I'll say them perfectly, but these these literally changed my life not not just from the physical standpoint But from a psychological standpoint how I addressed this product these protocols Well, there's a lot of quotes that are coming up actually well number one you said stop throwing a Dietary fix at a non dietary issue It's something to that extent and that really resonated with me because I keep I kept bouncing from the gluten-free diet or the You know the low carb diet the high carb diet the no fruits diet the whatever it was And I was kind of getting the same results with all of them And I love the fact that you said hey listen if you've tried all the diets and you're not really seeing a Exponential jump, maybe it's time to try a different approach and maybe that's some of these antimicrobials and Some of the therapies that you discussed in your book. So that was really powerful another thing you said in a book that helped me a lot was Eating to reduce inflammation instead of eating to feed gut bugs And so that helped me a lot because I started to think about You know, maybe a high fiber diet is not what's best for me at this point in time Maybe cutting back on these prebiotics and these high fiber foods I can implement other nutrient-dense foods to cover those bases But you know not feed the gut bugs and the overgrowth that I'm currently working with so that was really powerful and then Another thing that you said in the book was something to the extent of You know, you don't have to be a hundred percent perfect on these diet. That's a key. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes And that was literally like a psychological backpack I took off my shoulders because you know, I was It literally got to one point where I took every single diet and combined it and I was doing a low-fog map paleo Low histamine, you know anything you can name I started to basically stack it up And it got to the point where the only thing that was left on my list was meat and leafy greens and at that point, I'm like, you know What am I doing here? And what how much exponential benefit it's my really getting from this and I Promise you I read that quote from your book and to hear it from someone This is well-educated and research and has as much clinical experience as you for some reason that gave me a Psychological leeway to start to say, hey, you know what? maybe I'm gonna eat these these homemade chips with guacamole and You know, I mean a little gluten and maybe you're caught a little bit of fog map but I'll take extra digestive enzymes or you know and all I'll cut back and you know not overdo it I'll just have a few of those see how I feel and just having that psychological leeway for me was I Felt like I turned a page with that so Man, I mean, there's so much great stuff there I don't even know where to begin. I try to try to address some of those things But I mean what you're saying is is something that I have seen so much Which is why I wrote these things into the tapestry of the book one being Not trying to force a dietary solution to a non dietary problem. Hey and also To have a healthy psychology around this and not you know pigeonhole you into this progressively Restrictive dietary approach and not make you think you're going to do a Reverable harm to yourself if you eat off plan because that that does damage people and I do see that in the clinic And it's just it's great seeing that even When that's not delivered in the face-to-face clinical setting It still carries the amount of weight that it carried before and and then also You know, you can't have worked with a physician and having previously Treated your lab results and this book can still do better than than that and I don't mean to Denigrate any doctors out there, but there are some doctors who are very well intention But if you just treat lab results if you're working with a doctor who is treating your lab results compared to working with this book Which really listens to your responses and evolves a protocol to fit your needs Ironically, the book will be more personalized than a person the person interaction with the clinician in many cases Yes, and I also like that you have it segmented by steps because The last time I worked through one of your I work a great Nate plan. That was probably about Four four or five months ago, and I just went on vacation. I got back my stomach's been a little more sluggish so I've actually been going back to the great Nate plan and I've been working through the protocol again and I felt like this time when I approached it. I had a completely different mindset towards it instead of me being as Rigorous and and being a zealot about doing Every single thing at the exact time now I feel like hey, I know how this plan works for me Maybe this aspect of the plan works this aspect doesn't And so I'm able to implement, you know the steps that really get me back to that place of good digestion And then I work my way off of it And I love it because it's a tool that I now have in my tool belt that I can keep with me anywhere I go and other people that are struggling with digestion. I say hey listen I I'm not going to tell you which diet to do look here's a I love that you built the pyramid and you say Hey kind of work your way up that pyramid if paleo works for you Do it if if eating a gluten-free diet doesn't make a big difference maybe try another Action to see if that works for your digestion And I love that because I was stuck for literally almost ten years in the in the diet phase of that where It's gonna work. Which exactly? Yeah, I'm glad you say a sense that you felt empowered by the protocol Which is exactly and and I address this in the book of course, which is looking at This protocol as a way to learn what works for you And then as part of the the end of the protocol I say now that we've gone through this in a step-by-step sequence and you've learned What aspects really help you and what ones didn't really provide that much relief now when you've regressed You can go back to the tools that were helpful for you just like you have and you don't feel like you're Not participating in your healthcare and you're not empowered and it's just well I've got to go back to the doctor now and this magical person who knows all the stuff that I don't know Tell me what to do you're involved in the process and you understand now what works for your body So just like you said you feel empowered you're able to go back Select a few things out from the protocol that worked well for you And I'm assuming get yourself back to a hundred percent much easier the second time with a few little touch-ups Rather than when you first went through the protocol and you were learning the cell for the first time Yes Yes, yes, so tell us a little bit about the some of the symptoms that you were struggling with first and then you know How did they respond and how are you feeling now? so I mean, I'm 28 years old, but I've been relatively healthy my entire life I started chasing all these guru diets and that's when my digestion started to kind of tank In my early little bit around I come yeah, right exactly so and then at that point You know, I felt like I've been trying to figure out my digestion like it said for almost 10 years But last year I was in Costa Rica and I was teaching English over there I drank a lot of questionable water just kind of travel in throughout Central America and You know symptoms started popping up that I'd never experienced before in my life And actually the first two that really told me something was wrong was anxiety and like depression and insomnia And I had never experienced those before my life generally optimistic up beat and before you had any gut symptoms No, no the gut symptoms came along with that my digestion started kind of like I said It was always hit or miss but it started getting just gassy bloated backed up Inconsistent with bowel movements and at that point I noticed the symptoms correlated with my indigestion and the symptoms got worse it got to the point where I had to fly home from Costa Rica to go see Like a Western doctor because I was just down and out. I was lose weight. I was like I said anxious I have just Overall, yeah, which is just a quick you know, I want to echo that for people because The the gut symptoms are pretty apparent to most people gas bloating.  I've always been passionate about nutrition, but I hit the internet like a madman I went I read every book When I said I read a lot of books and I listen to every podcast every YouTube video everyone I could and a lot of people spoke highly of your work So I was kind of I actually was waiting for your book So I worked through a couple other protocols prior to your book coming out and I Felt like I was willy-nilly. I was all over the place every everything I heard on a podcast I would throw it at my stomach. I there was no Consolidated plan so when I go stick to stick to stick kind of thing, right exactly exactly like you know with one It was all biofilms with the next one It was digestive enzymes, but no one really put everything together into a step-by-step plan to say hey listen If you're good at step 3 stay here for a while and see how you feel ever it was kind of like Throw everything at the dartboard see what sticks and you have no idea which one worked and having also the appropriate sequence because there are some things that should be done before other things and That can be one of the problems when people experiment haphazardly is it's not necessarily that that my book contains any Magical supplement that no one else has But it's a process it's it's kind of fine these into the appropriate sequence So as to allow healing and that's it's one of the quotes in the book also Which is there's no magic protocol or there's no there's no magic product, but there is you know I'm a very helpful process and I think that's kind of what you learned and you didn't even just use the gurus You also went to a doctor and so what happened with the doctor? Did he use some kind of antibiotic or antiparasitic agent and he was he was great I kind of ran out of funds honestly, and I just I did a lot of testing. I did Adrenal panel. I did thyroid panel. I did neuro transmitters I did all different panels and I kind of ran out of financial stability at that point and it got to the point where I Just I couldn't I couldn't do it anymore So I came across your book and your book was kind of the user's guide to Implement these things and you you laid it out with meta-analysis. So I said, you know what? Let's give it a shot and that's when It's another good point that you make which is sometimes people think that you need testing in order to get healthy and Another concept I I address head on in the book which is yes There there can be a time and a place for testing But I mean what a great example you are where you had all this testing yet You didn't really treat any of those results what you did was a logical Algorithmic protocol and that's what got you well absent of needing any testing this year that process. So, you know I think that's really worth Emphasizing for people who are thinking, you know, I'm feeling unwell. I'll do anything. We need this data We need this testing. I'll spend all the money I need to but but you don't necessarily have to right I get that people will spend the money but for The cost of maybe three tests you could do probably most if not all of this protocol. Yeah, right So that's a awesome awesome point Anything else that you think is really important to yeah Yeah, actually something that I just wanted to take my hat off to and the book is that You you're you're you cite meta-analyses and you say I highly recommend that you Incorporate this aspect based on a consensus of data and that's great that you make these suggestions But you will also go even further to say but listen if you've tried This aspect of the protocol and it doesn't work specifically for you Maybe don't implement that and I have a personal story for that is You you state clear evidence that using Probiotics in conjunction with antibiotics shows more efficacious outcomes for remedying gut problems In in my situation, I've noticed that I actually do better when I do the Antimicrobials on the front end and I come in after the antimicrobial therapies and then I start to introduce some of the The soil-based organisms the saccharomyces blarty and then eventually the lactobiphydo me personally if I throw down a 50 billion hundred billion 300 billion lactobiphydo while I'm doing the kind of the cleaning phase I get backed up in a little big assy and then I sit there thinking to myself Is there something wrong with me wait his protocol says you have to do this But then I read through the book and it says no if this doesn't work for you then Didn't skip that step another quote from the book one of the most powerful powerful things you can do to improve your health is learning to listen to your body and and Literally, it sounds terrible, but I've chased so many guru diets that I felt like this was one of the first books That gave me my power back honestly well said well said Yeah, well, I think I think that's the quote of the interview right there Because this is that you know, I really wanted to write the book to give people their power back and not make you feel dependent upon Supplements or protocols or diets. So I mean that makes me feel Awesome and and I can't thank you enough for it for taking the time to to share your story Inclose anything that you want to leave people with Like I said, I've never spoken with dr. Roush.  I've got no affiliation here I I have spent so much of my 20s Sitting in my room reading books watching YouTube videos listening to podcasts trying to be my own doctor I've tried pretty much every guru diet doctor Protocol that's out there. This is a great protocol guys if you want something that's effective It's got a step-by-step guide. It's honest It it's based in science and meta-analyses and peer-reviewed literature This is a great protocol and you know for the price of a book You can try it out before you go to see a functional medicine doctor and spin arm and a leg just to get the results back That tell you to work through this protocol. So Well, couldn't have said it better myself Hey, I'm I'm so happy that you're feeling better I've been on the other side of feeling well and feeling ill and I know how much it sucks to feel ill and how Great it feels to feel well. So, you know, congratulations to you I'm super happy for you. Thank you again for sharing your story. Thank you


Welcome again to my presentation today. On behalf of the Navit project, I will talk today about how we do testing of our app, this time again with device farms, but with a bit of a change compared to last year. As Navit is a GPS navigation software, which you can use as an alternative to Google Maps, I tried to frame my talk today in the shape of a trip, like when I was travelling from where I live in Selle, Germany, here to Brussels. So for all of that, one needs to have a map. We mostly use OpenStreetMap data and this is how my whole route was when I was starting in Germany and coming all down to Brussels.  Now for our talk today, I structured it like this. That at first I give you a brief intro about Navit, then about device farms and our own device farm up here, and I will also mention a little bit what happened on the site, what other people in the project did during all of this time. But I will focus more on the things on the left. So what is Navit? It's an open source GPS app, which is multi-platform, covers many different platforms. It's offline, so you don't need any online connection during the operation, just once for downloading the maps. We use, as I already mentioned, OpenStreetMap data. We have been around already quite a while, more than 10 years now. And advantage for the end user is, as it's open source, it's highly customizable. It also does not need that much computing power, so you can also use pretty old devices. You can change the map layout, the on-screen display, which elements you want to have there, routing profiles, and also we have different text-to-speech systems. And the last point here, translations in many languages is always something where we also value community contributions a lot because we are just a small team and we just speak a handful of languages. So if you really want to have it localized in a large number of languages, you need to rely on volunteers. So if anyone here wants to contribute, we have it on launchpad, please feel free to. Because that will help everyone in the end. So what has happened since my talk last year? We improved the map server, which is used to transform the open-street map data for others to download. We resolved some issues in the map rendering. For example, we had some over-flooding of areas which should be land because the map data was not good enough. We worked on the translations. What I find most remarkable is that we still work on the traffic branch, which more or less does that we can have messages about traffic jams, blocked roads, or other problems when you are driving. And that can then be used to adapt the route dynamically. So that is something really nice and what I mostly worked on was the implementation of our new device farm. Why do we do a device farm in the first place? If you make a mobile phone app, usually you have a large number of different devices. The app is installed on, Android on top has a very large beauty that you have a fragmentation of many different Android versions. Right now we support, if I remember correctly, back till Android 2.3. So you have a lot to cover and testing is not really that simple because if you can just test locally, you just have each developer maybe has some devices, but you cannot share it or use it more on a global way or maybe others could also provide devices, but if it's always in one place, needs to be in one place of the developer working on it, it's pretty difficult. And if one looks at iPhones, which are not our focus right now, then that might also be available to everyone. So a device farm gives you the opportunity to have a web interface where you can imagine you have maybe one server or several servers and to those you have the different mobile phones connected and then via a central interface you can access all of them. You can run, for example, two I-based tests, that's what I will talk about today. You can manually do the actions on the phone and you could also compare the performance of different devices maybe to see which is the weakest for which one could do more optimization. commercially quite a few are available, Microsoft offers one, Google, Amazon and a few more but all of those have some limitations, of course, which we try to overcome and those are, of course, you are completely bound towards the vendor is offering you which phones are there, which functionality is there, you continuously need to pay in an abonnement or kind of reoccurring costs which for a small open source project is also not that easy and you cannot also not extend the functionality. So we said we want something on our own and the open STF project offers with STF a platform which you can install and just connect your phones and you have exactly the functionality which we want and that's what I was mostly looking at how to work with it. Right now we have it in a distributed, we want to have it in a distributed fashion as I already mentioned, one developer has the internal look and one has a dedicated x86 server so for those the implementation was pretty simple, there's a Docker image which you just need to run and things work and everything is nice and smooth. For the connection of the different nodes we want to do it via VPN because open STF despite having all the functionality you don't want to expose such things out to the internet without any access control still because they are not focusing too much on security and for embedded devices that was what I was more looking at to deploy it more widely like with a Raspberry Pi we said we want to have that dedicated server as master and all other nodes more or less as a slave and in the final stage it should be triggered like a general continuous integration system. So for the deployment that I mostly covered already what I used was a Raspbian based image but we also looked and also planned to look into maybe using OpenWRT to also have a larger number of devices we could address but that's more future work. And when I did it with a Raspberry Pi it was as I said I used Raspbian and I had to actually install two different packages at first ResyncDB which is a backend database and ResyncDB has a downside that it's not too largely developed anymore it's still somehow maintained and they mostly offer packages just for Intel platforms not for any Raspberry Pi but they have a community manual to compile it for Raspberry Pi and the earlier versions one to three of Raspberry Pi have not sufficient memory so you need to adjust also swap and yeah it takes some time for compiling but all of that I have done and also made a complete image which we can also then distribute to any user who wants to donate so to speak some devices that we can grow our platform. If you manage everything then the web interface will look like this here where you have at the top the different devices if you click on it then you can manually control it and you can also run automated tests which I will partially show today then up here I wanted to use to do these automated tests like last year for the reasons that it also supports quite a large number of platforms has clients for many different programming languages and it's also an open source library and when looking this year into up here I also noticed that there are some features which I wished to have already last year or to know about them you can do screen recording just also in the Python code do screenshots and even make a graphical comparison so if you have a sample picture and then if something changes then you see okay something obviously went wrong so those features seem pretty exciting and I just got to know about them this year and I did some initial implementation steps and ran some first simple tests like downloading the map which you would do anyway if you start using Navit here is how a sample code which does some of the things also some more things and this is just how you would do it in Python but as I mentioned you can also use Java, Ruby or many other languages and then here I have a video demo that I can now let's see does that work this is how it worked then when I was doing the animation so Navit was already starting and just by the Python code I download now the maps of the other islands that takes a couple of seconds so maybe I skim a bit forward and then at the end you have the screen and then one could compare okay did it really do what I wanted it to or did it crash somewhere in between and then see on which device did it crash and by that just giving you a lot more tools at hand to really make your code more mature and here was one screenshot which I also took by the Python code and that already brings me pretty close to the end of my talk and it's mostly Android Open STF but our project is not just limited to Android we have Linux, we have Sailfish OS Android of course, Windows it's running on Windows CE, TomTom but Open STF cannot not that many we had an Apple port for Navit but I don't think it's very well maintained I would say STF supports also Apple devices so if someone would give us an iPhone then or connect one it could also help other people looking into that port more but you know all depending on time and interest that's the idea behind actually that is the idea behind it's not fully functional yet but we want to get there we will have a documentation about it but right now it's not fully functional yet so that will be on our website certainly or in our wiki that is via that radio signal TSMC or I don't remember now if we have a branch for it where it's actually also running but it's still a bit in an experimental shape it's not in the main branch yet but people are working on it I'm pretty excited also about it anybody else, if not well thank you very much thank you for having me Ilya


DeFi stands for decentralized finance. It's a new term. How do you define decentralized finance? De-decentralized. Fi-finance. De-fi-de-fi-de-fi-de-fi-de-fi-de-fi-de-fi-de-fi. De-centralized finance. Does that answer your question? Probably not. All right, so let's start in the beginning. What is finance? And I think that's where we should start this conversation. Finance, in my opinion, and I'm not an economist, but this is how I try to think of this question. Finance is all of the layers of abstraction that we stack on top of money. And these layers of abstraction allow us to handle change. What do I mean by that? Well, money as a communication medium of value itself is a useful abstraction, but the characteristics of money change over time and the interactions that we use them for change over time. That change is what we try to manage with finance. So change can also be called risk or if you're on the other side of it yield. Change is a negative thing if it's a change that you didn't want and a positive thing if it's a change you did want. So a change in price which reflects a change in supply and demand is something that represents a risk if you were hoping for the price to go up or down and it went the other way. Or it's an opportunity for yield if you were hoping for the price to go up or down and it went the way you were hoping. That's the kind of change that we deal with with abstractions on top of money. So when there is a change in value we might want to manage that change. I think of it in the terms of physics. So in physics for example we have a physical effect such as velocity and velocity is change of distance over time and then we might have another abstraction layered on top of that which is acceleration. That's known as the first derivative. So that's change in velocity over time over time. That's acceleration. So we can do the same thing with financial things and of course the word derivative is used there too. But derivative is a more specific aspect of finance and you can apply these things more broadly. Let's say you're an oil producer. Well if the price of oil goes down that's going to hurt your finances. But if you're an airline and the price of oil goes down that's going to help your finances. So the same change is perceived as risk on one side and yield on the other. Well what if we could have a marketplace that allows us to arbitrage that change to trade that change and that's the classic marketplace for oil futures. So in that case essentially an oil producer hedges the possibility of oil dropping while an airline hedges the possibility of oil prices increasing and that way they can cancel out each other's risk. So these are the kinds of things that finance is used for at maybe an industry level but for an individual as well. You know you use a retirement fund to get yield in order to make sure that your change in your ability to earn in the future doesn't affect your ability to have quality of life. So all of these things are finance. They're layers of abstractions on top of money and in most cases those layers of abstraction of money are somewhat decentralized. I mean think about it this way. Let's say you wanted to handle the difference in risk between an oil producer and an airline who are both affected by a change in price of oil. Well one way you could fix that is with a very centralized solution. You could have a government step in and say if the price goes up and the oil producers make more money we're going to tax them more heavily and then we're going to use that tax revenue to subsidize the airlines to help them absorb the cost of oil and vice versa. And you could have a government try to step in and do that or a cartel or bilateral trade agreements. These are centralized solutions to solve that problem. So finance itself is somewhat decentralized because we have markets to do that. But it's not decentralized enough and it's not decentralized enough because there are intermediaries and brokers and these intermediaries and brokers introduce counterparty risk. Also there are possibilities of repudiation. That means that you enter into a contract and then they don't deliver. They fail to deliver and enforcing that contract is very expensive. Again a centralized aspect of this especially in world trade. And finally these markets are also very closed. Getting access to these markets requires authorization and vetting by third parties. And so all of these things are the same types of problems that we solve with cryptocurrencies. So cryptocurrencies give us neutrality and openness and access and transparency and auditability and censorship persistence for money. Well decentralized finance is about achieving those same objectives in abstractions above money. I think that's one of the ways I could explain decentralized finance. Hi thanks for watching the video. I'm Andreas Antonopoulos. I'm the author of Mastering Bitcoin, Mastering Ethereum, and the Internet of Money series. If you'd like to support my mission of bringing education about Bitcoin and open blockchains to as many people as possible under open free Creative Commons licenses, please consider subscribing to my channel and supporting me on patreon.com slash a-a-n-t-o-n-o-p. Thank you!


Everybody's trying so hard to be a good person. It's quite touching. I don't know if trying hard to be a good person really results in being a better person, except as a kind of prayer that attracts the necessary experiences that change you into a different person. I would not even necessarily say better or worse, but maybe a person who acts more consistently from love, from empathy, from compassion, from service. These are things that we tend to aspire to, but the aspiration often comes from a assumption that this is something that we can do to ourselves and for ourselves, that we can achieve it through an effort of will. Inherent in that is a kind of conceit, a kind of elitism, because if you do try really hard and you finally become more generous, more kind, more compassionate than somebody else, well why is that? It's because you tried harder than they did, shame on them. So it can result in this kind of arrogance or sometimes this patronizing indulgence of, yeah, you're not as far along, you're not as conscious, you don't get it. But I think that if you look at the motivation, where does the desire to be a better person come from? Maybe there's part of it that comes from the desire to like yourself, the desire to approve of yourself, which in turn comes from deeply ingrained self-rejection, which comes from multiple sources, but one would be the almost universal parenting practices of our culture that are based on conditional approval and rejection, and also based on, also another influence would be the religious and scientific stories that say your fundamental nature is bad. Your fundamental nature is to maximize self-interest, your fundamental fundamental nature is sinful. Like whether you grew up in a religious school or, you know, scientific school, the same implication is there. So there's all kinds of fuel for the fire of self-rejection that leads to the desire for to be good, or at least to look good to yourself. To the extent that that motivation is there, what you will achieve is looking good to yourself, but not actually being good. That might not be something that you can achieve, especially when it's driven by that motivation, but there's also another drive behind it, which is a kind of heartbreak. It's just to encounter something in the world that is so painful and so wrong and so sad that it pierces the shell. And you think, I will do anything in my power to serve the healing of this. I will do anything in my power to bring justice to this place, to bring healing to this place. That impulse can also, yeah, I mean it can then get hijacked by the desire to look to oneself as if one is a good person. But it also is a, it also drives in a kind of earnest quest for liberation, for liberation from the playpen and the prison cell of separation that we've been cast into. That quest is something that is impossible to achieve through your own power, but this is at least how I've experienced it. I mean maybe I'm, you know, not qualified to make such universal pronouncements that sound like wisdom, but in my personal experience I end up just giving up on trying to be a better person after the humiliation of realizing that I was just playing a game, that I was deluding myself, putting on a show. And it's been when I've given up on that that initiations have come to me that gave me what I said I wanted and partially what I did want. But be careful what you ask for, because there's a price to pay to actually being a person who acts more from love and compassion. You have to give something up, obviously, because if it's a place where you are not right now, then who you are will have to change. The generosity of the universe is such that the changes will be brought to you if you're asking is persistent enough. And the sacrifice will be asked, but it'll feel like the right time.


Welcome to the wide world of eSports, a show devoted to all things eSports. I'm your host, Catherine Norr. Today we're talking about promoting eSports in Hawaii, HPU and the Hawaii eSports Alliance. With me today is Jordan Oliver, eSports Manager at Hawaii Pacific University eSports Arena. Welcome Jordan. Hi, thank you so much for having me. All right, so how long has HPU had an eSports arena? So 2017 is when we kicked open our doors at the HPU eSports arena here at Aloha Tower. That got started with John Gotanda, our president. He sort of had this vision of pushing forward the innovative experience and innovative aspects of education. Like how do we tie in innovation more and saw the writing on the wall that eSports was his perfect opportunity. So 2017 is when we officially opened up. You know, that's kind of early on because if you look at UCI, they opened around 2015. So you did not lag too far behind them. Not at all. Very pressure move really actually super impressive to be there that early. The first in the state of Hawaii to do the eSports arena and go with a collegiate presence in eSports. How did it come about? Really, I think a lot of strategic planning, looking at the strategic plan and sort of that long term vision of, you know, how do we connect these emerging industries, the trending emerging new jobs. How do we make sure that our students are ready for these industries? And how do we make sure that we're staying on trend with that, you know, innovating continuously, not just getting complacent in what we're offering here at HPU. So eSports was decided it was just a perfect fit and we had a great space and some generous amount of resources were put in to make it happen. Was there any kind of backlash or did anyone kind of think it wasn't a good idea or was it something that was widely considered a good fit? I think it's been seen as a great fit across the board. We've had a lot of support. The sort of elevator speech is enough to get people interested. But when you really look at the statistics and the numbers and how much value it adds to our students and the community around us, I think that it became apparent that this was a really good move. You know, Hawaii Pacific University is pretty unique because of its location. Tell us about its location. Yeah, so we're still sort of consolidating and part of our plan filling out that Aloha Tower marketplace area. It's beautiful. We're right on the water. We have our dorms are right above the arena, you know, for the most part, as far as the ATM aspect goes. So I can imagine a better experience as a college student honestly to have this amazing 3000 square foot arena downstairs on this downtown urban environment. And we have shuttles that connect to other campuses and Waikiki dorms over there as well, and our lower campus and yeah, it's a unique offering. It's such a diverse population of students. We have a lot of cool partnerships in the community. And then of course just what a more beautiful spot, right? Go to the beach after you're done with three East Forests and it's a pretty good deal. Aloha Tower is kind of it's a landmark that people have seen it's iconic and I think it's interesting for those people who have never been to Hawaii that this is a university that is taken over this area that's traditionally more of a tourist area where and where there were restaurants and there still are some restaurants there, but it is really like if I was a student, I would really seriously think about being a Hawaii Pacific University shark. So what is your background in East Forest Jordan. So yeah, my background in eSports, I kind of exist at this true crossroads of eSports gaming, but education, chiefly as well. So I started out marketing freelancing web design, a lifelong gamer tech enthusiast and travel junkie sort of so this really exists at that perfect spot of connecting those dots of this international industry tech and gaming centric so my clients tended to more and more skew towards that and I was also getting into journalism and writing so I ended up teaching high school Adobe certifications and taking on all kinds of jobs freelancing and writing for publications like game rant and doing some freelance editorial things so a lot of knowledge gaining there and sort of seeing it through and capping and off with eSports management tracked from from UCI to sort of after the writing was on the wall this industry is not going away right so being an education. So how much value I could add to my students really I think that this generation of students that's going to be graduating they're going to be the first wave of have existed with the eSports industry that you know existed as they were growing up you know it wasn't this oh this is new it's oh I can aim for this I can be a streamer I can be a to tournament organizer or you know whatever it's a pretty endless and we can talk about that but as I saw that being possible I said you know education is where I really wanted to be because I wanted to provide that value pass it pass it through the community and make eSports more equitable and representative and the education was a perfect fit so a couple of years later. Here I am at HP. Fantastic. So, let's go on a photo tour of the facility. Yes. Yeah, sorry, I'm excited about this so this is our current configuration configuration basically actually so you notice it's a little bit spread out for covid to keep it safe but we have our our our 12s here or our 12 computers from Alienware so those have 3080s in them rtx 3080s if that means anything pretty overkill for League of Legends we're ready to admit that, but it's pretty cool to be to be able to come and play like Halo or Elden Ring and blast the graphics up. And those monitors are all 240 hertz a millisecond refresh rate so you know, helping combat that pain rate that we're notorious for here in Hawaii with the best equipment we can to make up for latency and things like that. So yeah and the chairs are also Alienware and they are super comfortable really encourage you guys to stop by. So yeah we're open to the public, you can come in. As you can see lots of spaces here. We put the streams up on the walls we have a streaming booth off to the right and students can come in groups can come in varsity teams club teams local teams we encourage to come in sort of use this hub. I mean it's beautiful as you can see and it's even really more compelling at night as the lights go down we turn up the RGB and we get some of the projectors going. So as you can see in the background there a little bit more filled out so this would be an older configuration but this would be for tournaments so just a couple weeks ago we had a Super Smash Bros tournament and it looked like that except it was consoles all, you know switch it Nintendo switches in the background. So this would be a situation where we would have our tournament organizer or showcaster doing some commentary from our computer here time it was looked like overwatch or playing. So this is large enough and we have enough PCs that we can actually flex out like I said we have 18 gaming PCs on the floor right now but we can easily push that to 36. And beyond that as we sort of build out these community events. And then, as you'll see we also have some console gaming so sort of anywhere along the peripheral wall essentially is going to be filled in with non PC gaming so ps fives series x x ps for a Nintendo switch we have several. And then we also have like more fun party games that our students and community can come in and play like you know Mario Kart guitar hero those sort of sort of games for constantly adding more. Let's have air hockey by the way for freeway wants to jump in and maybe just a rattles and make some noise while they're whether friends are playing. And then we have VR so we have quest two out right now we have a couple of headsets, and we encourage people to come try new stuff if there's anything you're interested and want us to throw up on the, on the software wise we're happy to do it we're happy to download it and put it on things keep rolling out constantly, and we like to stay updated VR is a really really really interesting aspect it's not quite endemic to eSports yet but we'll see where that goes. We just like to stay current. No I think most people are, you know, kind of considering VR to be sort of in the wider scope. And that's kind of exciting that you have that there because I think, I think that eSports is kind of the first metaverse I mean when gaming is and, and that's where we've seen NFTs so a lot of the, a lot of where we are going technology wise, sort of eSports was the beginning and gaming is getting what do you think of that. Yeah, I really is this nexus of emerging technologies right and to keep people interested they have to stay competitive and the IPs are constantly shifting it's. It's not going anywhere that's for sure and I think eSports is going to double down on this dynamic of lean in entertainment versus lean back right like we don't want you to kick back kick back and watch the game we want you to be as involved in as possible as possible whether it's in chat or augmented reality or VR later. Absolutely yeah I think eSports was sort of the beginning of bringing people into it right like the metaverse fortnight epic games trying to make a push for it I mean obviously that was born out of competitive gaming and collaborative gaming so I think, well, we won't see that change anytime soon and VR is definitely a strong component of that because it's hard to place where it exists but the component of VR, at least the headset right it's going to be part of simulation eSports at the very least, you know you look at simulation driving and it really really hits home when you're able to put on that headset it's like well this is this is a whole new experience. Sure in a few weeks I'm going to have a guest talking about VR tennis and so I'm looking forward to that. So let's get back to the ping issue. Okay, you mentioned that Hawaii is sort of famous for the ping. Well, my guest last week, Johnny Ryan Weaver is a was a professional eSports athlete and then he now puts on events and he said that his strategy is that he might like just lose by a little bit because where he's located the ping is great he's in like more more rural Oklahoma. And so his strategy is that then when he's in person he just blows and his opponents away, because he has to be so much better than his opponents because of the ping. So, how does, how do players in Hawaii deal with that. Yeah, that's a really good point. So it's like sort of that high altitude training concept right when you're playing on C level you really just have that edge. Take the weights off here maybe we should put weights on our thumbs to and then we can take them off on game day and really get that extra edge. But yeah, I mean, there's definitely something to be said for it when you get that when we do get the opportunity to put our players on a even playing ground and sort of like a true equitable experience with like parody as far as pengos yeah I'd say there's that massive bump that's noticeable with local players. You know, you can lean into teaching fundamentals also and just really be heavy on that and knowing that boost is going to come and sort of strategizing on that end. There's probably so much you can do though and you know there's pluses and minuses I think that like anything we have on the other side of the coin we're when we're only playing against local players we're all we are playing with the same, you know, on the same playing field as far as that goes so we're all we are used to dealing with that with the pain and I think technology it was going to get better and better and it'll become less and less of an issue. What do you think about the Overwatch League coming to Hawaii and playing at UH. I think it's amazing I think anytime something that great can land on our shores it's good for us for the community of e sports. I think it just points to the opportunities that they're only going to continue growing here locally. The white e sports Alliance actually that that we're part of here is trying to push that forward right so you see more of these marquee events see more of the beautiful benefits of having events in Hawaii and connecting, you know Asian teams just across the Pacific actually and just having this sort of hub that we can come to to have these amazing matches. It's great I think it's only a sign of things to come I can tell you that it's only the beginning I think as far as what you're going to see roll So tell us about the Hawaii e sports Alliance what is that. So the Hawaii sports Alliance is sort of a nonprofit gathering stakeholders in Hawaii interested in moving forward e sports community aspect building a building an industry, you know on islands. And we really want to give support education and resources to people looking to build out that he sports pipeline, you know we won't we don't want anybody left behind so definitely check them out. But I feel like the idea is to give that support where it's needed, make sure that from, you know, elementary school through our middle school to high school. Leagues and students that their support that there's opportunity and that we can, you know, safely build out this this e sports experience take something they're doing and really really carefully make sure that we're adding value and we're legitimizing these sports, not only as as an industry but as an experience right because this is valuable time in their lives we want to make sure that we are bettering our students and the community members and giving them something that at the end of this journey whether they go through higher education or straight into the workforce. They're going to be ready for what's coming and not only that they're going to be a part of building what's coming and making sure that it's coming here you know we want to make sure that that he sports industry grows as it should and that these are not just events that roll through. We want them to be sourced and locally, you know, people employed locally that are running these events and bringing them to us so that's that's sort of the idea of the alliance and something that is happy to be on board with you age is a part of, and it's really it's going to continue to grow and I think we're going to see a lot of really great things coming from it. So what you're going to hear now is the legislative or any legislators, legislators, members of the Hawaii Sports Alliance. Not in the fish capacity but we are definitely looking at and talking to everybody I mean we're, it's, it's early days right so it's very early days for that for the Alliance. Yeah, absolutely we're hoping to bring through some some good showcases and really show the opportunity and make sure that we do get those people on board with what we're trying to do and the messaging is clear. You know we want to we want to absolutely carefully craft this whole project and make sure that, you know, from a parents on up from the students on up from the parents to the legislature like we want to make sure that we're not just starting at the top we're literally going through through everything. Sure. And a previous guest was Heather Blair who's with Cinema eSports Alliance and they promote having eSports events in cinemas. Have you seen that in Hawaii at all. I can't say I've seen it locally it is funny that you mentioned I was thinking about this last week, just in personal time in conversation with a couple other eSports colleagues about the opportunity that like these community spaces and these sort of community centric spaces as we get post covid or into at least a modern covid era, where we can have events open up. Yeah, that's an important thing right making sure that we're taking community available resource whether privately owned or not but running these community centric programs of eSports and utilizing these empty spaces that's just a really great example of what eSports can provide. You know it's a new genre of culture, not just industry. So there's going to be these chances for these like pop up opportunities we can really use this. These tournaments and these events and like empty theaters as a call to action to reinvigorate these spaces bring people out and push out forward other industries. There's a great spaces for vendors and new things and education programs. And that's just a great space like libraries, community centers, all of these areas that we can we can reinvigorate with eSports that's sort of the idea I love that. And where we've seen covid impact those spaces like we've definitely seen movie theaters close in Hawaii and and you know if to make it a more profitable industry or space to have other opportunities like eSports in that space. I could see that could work. 100%. Yeah, I mean it's been tough weathering covid I even I can speak for the, you know, HP is eSports arena.  So it's important to sort of fulfill that commitment to double down we're going to you know we're going to go back out there we're still here. We want these opportunities to grow I can tell you anecdotally that there's a lot of business interest in eSports spaces event spaces broadcast locally on island and in state, and I think we're going to see more and more that happen. So, yeah, I would love to see these, these sort of people that could use that almost lifeline as they're listening to, you know, think tech and wide world of eSports and go, maybe I'm a good fit for that you know reach out reach out via this channel or our channels because there are a lot of people looking to connect these dots and make this happen. There's a lot of great talent out there and I think there's a lot of money and funding opportunities out there as well. And I could even see there being a tie in with restaurants or with malls, because, you know, it isn't easy to make a living purely on retail, or, or selling food and drink, so, and combining them does make sense even though it kind of goes back to that land center situation, but you know it was very successful in South Korea. Yeah, yeah, you really take a holistic approach to these industries, give the people what they want and what they need right, and you have to sort of have your listening to the polls locally at least in the community and say what can we what can we do here what can we do to make sure that this we do take an approach that we're being safe and we're taking a look at COVID and ongoing restrictions and things but planning for not only opening up but getting people to come out to feel safe and to feel like oh I have a place here or maybe I'm going to go try this you know or I'm going to tip my hand into this, it's been a couple of years right so it's going to take a lot of support so yeah we're here for the long term and we want to connect those dots bring in non endemics. I mean that's really the beauty of it I can't say enough to sponsorship opportunities and and crossover, whether it's interdisciplinary in school and education, or just like you're saying hey here's some retail there's a food outlet. All of these things they really have a place here go watch a League of Legends World Championships just Google any one of those things and really just pause it and any given scene and look at all the people in the room, all those jobs that are being created. It's astounding. So speaking of League of Legends World Championships, the Aloha Stadium is going to be basically rebuilt into an entertainment kind of center, and I understand that there's opportunities for esports there. Thoughts on that. Yeah, I think that if there is not some sort of gaming or esports space there it's an opportunity for somebody else I can, I can put leave it at that if I if I needed to but yeah it should 100% be on the, on the table and the planning board. I think that this is not going to go away I was I was saying and that's a great opportunity to bring in new events, new planning. We look at these, you know opportunities like COVID where a lot of things did shut down full stop and you incorporate other aspects for opportunity like esports and there's a lot of events that could have been running throughout that and you only need to know a minimal amount of space to host some virtual events and programming through esports and I think it's again it's this sort of peripheral that a lot of people maybe weren't thinking of, or maybe they were too eager even a couple years ago and coven provided this early or early correction and esports where people said okay where can we carefully spend our money to make sure we're getting this value so I think as you see these sort of important hallmark spaces being built rebuilt and rededicated like a lot of stadium I think you're going to see. Yeah that how can it not be involved. It would be a it would be shocking if it wasn't. I'd love to be that that conversation. Yeah, and you know, people in Hawaii know a very famous event promoter who passed away fairly recently and that was Tom Moffitt. And so I often think that we sort of need a Tom Moffitt of esports someone who is, you know, an event promoter and if we had some amazing facilities. You know, I mean we've got your facility but like some even bigger facilities, we could have some incredible events in Hawaii. Absolutely yeah I think I think we'll see those those are coming I really do I think we have, you know, I think HPU like you said sees the writing on the wall opportunity for let's let's really see if we can build these events out kick this up and I think that's going to happen but then again you have the esports coming into coming into fruition here and that's no coincidence and that's against to make sure that when we do bring these events here as they are coming there you know they're coming right now people are bidding for them. And they're going to get bigger and better that we're providing for the community and that the money as much hopefully you know money and education experience maybe stays on island as we can as we can you know and we can provide these things. So that if we do have these triple A companies coming they say hey we want to get a bid for this, how much is going to cost we can turn around and say this is the production company of talented esports broadcasters and in crew we have and we can provide them for this and here's the food and here's the vendors for shirts and everything and here's the, here's the spaces so that's the idea and it's coming. And so, how, how does esports in Hawaii compared to esports on the mainland do you think or in Asia. Well, I think that that is a great question I think in a couple of aspects were sort of an early earlier stages in development than a lot of esports. You know, presences are on the mainland, but I think that's good I think that people are taking a little bit more of a careful approach with the questions are asking to do we want to commit to having esports. And just as an example, I put that through the lens of a parent right so am I making sure my student and my child is getting value by having this in their school, you know, like just that question alone those are the questions that we're making sure we answer now, even before you know, the big money questions and, and how are we going to make sure that this thing gets as big as it began and all those, all those aspects, we really are taking a careful approach to making sure that this is legitimate and setting value to the students right to the people that need it most maybe the people that if, if this esports community program didn't exist, they might not have gotten into esports right we don't necessarily want to serve the people that are at the top of their rank already so we're we're happy to be that vehicle for them to grow and become the best esports player and professional they can but we do also want to make sure we're grabbing, you know that student that maybe they never would have got their hands on a controller otherwise we want that as well. So how can people find out more about Hawaii esports Alliance. Absolutely yeah Hawaii esports alliance.org would be the best way to check out them learn some more information, and you're going to see a lot more coming out there we got some cool stuff coming up in the future. So be sure to check that out get involved. If you have any sports, call the action mission something you'd like to happen, reach out for sure. And you can also find the information about HP on our socials, HP esports twitch.tv slash HP esports or HP.edu slash esports to get all kinds of deals we're running promotions at the arena all the time and we're open to the public every day at 11 so stop by for sure. All right well I'm looking forward to going to HP you and checking out your arena and playing a few games. So, anyway, thank you so much Jordan, appreciate you coming on and telling us all about HP you and the Hawaii esports Alliance. Thank you we really appreciate it. All right and thank you to our viewers for joining us today next week my guest will be Brandon Boosman partner and director of government affairs of global market advisors to talk about esports gambling. See you then. Thank you so much for joining us and I'll see you in the next video.


Hi, I'm Chris Thompson for Investor Intel, and today I'm with Jamie Tuer from Fjordland Exploration. How are you today, Jamie? Excellent. Thanks very much for having me, Chris. So Fjordland focuses on Canadian projects, and maybe you can just outline for some investors who may not know your company, what projects you're working on these days. So we have three projects in three different provinces in Canada, west to east. We have BC, Mt. Milligan project. We have Quebec. We have the Renzi project, which is an old nickel mine. And in Labrador, on the far side of the country, we have the South Voise Bay project, which is a nickel project. So it seems that you're focusing on battery metals, is that correct? Fully battery metals. It's copper, nickel, graphite, lithium. And your number one project is the Voise Bay project? The most advanced is the South Voise Bay project. It's had historically probably $30 or $40 million spent on it. It's the right terrain, it's the same terrain as the Voise Bay nickel mine, which has over 2% nickel in it, run by valet. Our rock is the same age. We're looking at areas that have not been drilled to the extent that it should be drilled. But historically, there was 12% nickel in some of the drill holes, and almost every hole has nickel in it. That's high grade nickel. And who are you partnering with there? We're partnering with Robert Freeland's company, Ivanhoe Electric. They have the right to earn in a 65% share by spending an additional $4 million this year or into next year. If they don't spend it, they have zero interest, and we still retain our 75% interest. So it's a very valuable asset for us. And this needs to be a little bit of activity at your Renzi project. What's going on there? Well, Renzi, it's an old mine. It's a 1.5% combined nickel copper mine that ran in the late 60s, early 70s. It was shut down. There's probably, but there's still probably 500,000 tons of ore left in the lake itself. We're looking for other deposits outside around it so that we could build that up to the 2 plus million ton range. We've flown it with EM in the past, and we're looking at soil sampling to find other targets. That's a matter of following up with drilling on those. And what are a couple of the other projects you have that you're working on? So interestingly enough, with the Renzi deposit when we drilled it last year, we had a wide intercepts of graphite in two of the holes, and they measure up to eight kilometers with the geophysics. So we have a lot of targets. We think it'll outcrop its surface. We're going to collect that material this summer and process it. We've done some work at SGS, Lakefield. We know we can upgrade it to around 95% carbon right now. I think we need more grade, but if we look at some of the other graphite projects in the area, it's totally doable, and Quebec's great from a graphite point of view. The other project we're looking on from that point of view in Quebec is Lithium. We recently staked some ground, which was denoted on old maps that we found that were white pegmatites. The Lithium and Quebec are all hosted in white pegmatites, the spodumene. These maps were never digitized that we could see on the Quebec database, and they're left there open. There's high Lithium in the lake bottom sediments and government surveys down ice. So we think it's a great target, and I guess we're going to jump on that Lithium bandwagon a little bit. But I don't just jump on for no reason. I think there's a really good opportunity there. But the focus is there, though, on battery metals. Absolutely. Fully battery metals. I mean, I think from an ESG point of view, to get mines into production, this is the type of commodity that we can get, you know, licensed for when it comes to building mines. And is there a reason why all your projects are in Canada? No. I've looked at other areas, but historically we were a Canadian-focused company. But also, it's corporate governance, and it's the ability... It's one of those things where you have to have the licensed operator. We know we can put mines into production in Canada. There's other places. I worked in Greenland for a long time and built a mine there, and I know I could go back there. I'm looking, but right now we're focusing Canada. So for investors who are looking at your company for this year, what sort of news releases can they expect? What sort of activity, the things you're working on for the different projects? Activity will be... We're waiting for budget meetings to conclude with Ivanhoe Electric, whether they'll fund a $4 million drilling program this year. We're looking at advancing our Renzi project. We're looking at potentially a gravity survey. Nickel is associated with dense gravity anomalies. We're looking at that. We're looking obviously at following up the Lithium project, and we're looking at NBC. We've just been granted a five-year exploration permit, which will allow us to drill, so we have to get in on the ground there. That project actually had historically a gram per ton of gold along with copper in a trench, which, again, is not publicly known. It's in the records, but not widely known. So there's another example of doing a little digging and then getting in the field to follow these things up. Literally and metaphorically, yes. You'll be digging into your... Good. So for this, for when investors are looking at your company, there's a lot of activity in the battery metal space, and you should have a lot of... You're doing any drilling at all? And also from a budget standpoint, how are you handling it? It would be a substantial drill program in Labrador, not funded by us. And then at Renzi, potentially, we have drill targets. We want to follow them up. We want to be a bit more careful as to how we target our drilling. It's complicated area. But the V-TEM survey, the electromagnetic survey from last year gave us some great targets. Well, thanks for your time today. I'm Chris Thompson for Investor Intel, and we were speaking with Jamie Tuer from Fjordland Exploration.


Oh, I'm sorry, my audio is going out. Can you hear me now? Yeah, I had to log out and log back in. I don't know what happened there. Yeah, I had the same issue. That's good. I was a little worried I'd have to do the whole panel myself. I asked the experts without the expert. All right. Yeah, I guess being a starter that's it's 4pm Eastern time. So, yeah. Welcome everyone to the privacy and data governance track. Ask the experts. Today we have a bunch of super talented and awesome people on the panel. The first member of our panel is Jamie Parker. She is the Indian compliance for compliance and process for service delivery. And she has 12 years of experience in the whole, in the space. We also have Jay Kohler, hopefully I said the last name right. She's new to red hat, but she has over 15 years of experience and industry related to security. We also have the rent CEO. Colonel. And he is senior product security analyst at red hat. Lots of experience and familiar cloud services and. Well, he has a good 20 years of experience. I think back then I was still in school. Finally, we have a day. He is our product management for our email workloads at red hat. And for the hybrid cloud. Not sure how many years of experience that he has when I'm assuming it's just as much as everyone else. Finally, you have me. I'll be moderating the panel today. My name is Anish Astana and I'm a software engineer on J steam at red hat. So the AI services organization. Cool. I guess I'll kick things off. In terms of our planning for the panel. We were hoping to sort of focus more on supply chain security. And that's kind of what we'll be starting off with. That isn't to say you can't ask questions about anything you're interested in. So please ask what anything you're curious about. This is just some things we came up with a plan for. So with that we can open the floor. Well, the first question I prepared is what is the supply chain you're referring to when we're talking about security? And why do we care about it? Well, I can, I can start if you will say. The, we have been talking about the supply and change security in the last year or maybe more than previously. Now it seems that we are more aware that we have to have our software secure, but also our software and solutions depend on third party components. Sometimes close and sometimes open. And the security of those components are very relevant for the security of our solution. So we cannot just rely on the other components to provide security but we have to do also proactive things we have to plan our security how we include new components. And also how we protect our own pipeline, the security of our own pipeline. So I think open source has some advantage there are so some challenges. And that is a main concern I think for all the industry these days. Cool. Could you, could you elaborate on some of the challenges or advantages of open source in this picture? Really. I'm asking you but like anyone on the panel again. Well, sorry, go on please. Oh, thanks. Yeah, I can kick it off for the open source part, right? I think I said a couple of major challenges and advantages to start with the open source development model which is let's develop fast, fail fast and go back and retry. That's really great to get the software out the door but is it really a well thought out process from a security perspective is one thing we have to really look at, right? A lot of software open source projects delay on or use components from other areas that are also open source. And if you don't have a policy on which ones to pick and which do not pick, you may or may not be picking the right component or even the right version of the component to use in your project. And that may create security holes, right? So that's both a good and a bad thing that the good thing is you have choice and which means you can get software out fast with open source that's secure. But choice also creates a responsibility to do some due diligence. So security in open source is one area where in fact we may need to slow down and think which components to use and what the impact of them is. And to that point, would you also say that understanding that community, the open source, how often they are updating, how are they addressing their security issues and those sorts of things. What do you think about that from an important perspective? Absolutely, Jay. So one of the critical things when you look at not just security but any aspect of picking an open source community is look at how vibrant the community is, how fast they update and what kind of support does it have, right? Is it a single vendor driven who just puts code out there? Is it the real community in the collaborative sense that there's multiple people with different expertise levels developing it? Certainly a vibrant community always guarantees the fresh and new software coming out on time, right? So that's a critical aspect to look at. Yeah, and then I was, so now I'm coming to Jamie. I'm sorry, but I have these thoughts. Since I am kind of new to the open source too. And one of the things that I've recently learned is that from a PII perspective, there's a concern there too, you know, when we're selecting our vendors, et cetera, you know, what kind of information are they potentially gathering and that sort of thing. Jay, what is BIIS time for? Personal Identifiable Information. I wasn't quizzing you. I just sort of make sure we're all aware. Yeah, no, thank you for that, Anish. Yeah, I think it's something that we all think about, right? I mean, especially when you see, especially the headline news, right? A lot of security breaches. So the day I was going to ask you and maybe Florencia, like, you know, how do you kind of influence and kind of work with the community to think about privacy by design, right? So that's really what it boils down to is, you know, how are you incorporating like the opt in or opt out? Do you understand where the data is going when you are making an update, right? Do you have to put in some sort of control, right? So how do you work with our communities to kind of, you know, work through what is the best way to think about privacy by design? I think that something that on the security industry we have done wrong in the past is to be like against developers in the sense that we want to put gates. We want to put controls and we slow down the work they do. So we have to, we are fixing that and we have to continue improving. We have to give good advice on which security controls can be implemented by default to improve privacy, good mental models. Things that are aligned with being agile and with being fast, it is possible. It is a challenge because the easy way on security is saying no, you can do that. I have to review these before you can continue. That is the easy thing. The difficult thing is to define architectures that are secured by default, paradigms that take care of the privacy and data of users. So we have to improve as an industry. I think so about security. We have to go to the next level to have a better portfolio of security controls. And if we explain that what we do is for improving privacy and what we recommend has sense, communities understand that. If we try to impose security controls that don't take into account what they are doing, how they work and agility is when friction happens. So it is about thinking, thinking a lot, how to improve, how to be agile and fast and at the same time protect privacy. It can be done, but it is a challenge. That's why it's good and funny to be here now. To add to the point, something we have discussed with DEF CON last year. This also brings the need to bring in more technical people but not just programmers or software engineers into our communities. But we need these technical experts and domain experts that can provide the framework so you can speed up development but also remain within the realm of the security and the set guidelines. We do need to expand communities to include some of the expertise beyond just software engineering. I think one way of doing this is like including these controls on the CI, CD pipelines. For example, automating things, what we have named shift left. So instead of doing a security review at the end, like a security gate, maybe it is better to continuously scan the code while it is being developed. And give these insights, this information to developers in real time if it is possible or when they do a full request or a push to a repo. But as soon as possible on the development life cycle. I think in a space too, it's really challenging because the requirements are always changing. And what is really your benchmark? Is it taking a global point of view? Are you looking in a specific region? I think especially in the privacy space, it's really evolving and ever changing. And how do we kind of think about privacy by design with the automation that would support the fast moving privacy kind of landscape, if you will. Yeah, maybe outing myself here. I don't usually think a lot about these things when I'm working or just writing my code, right? I'm like, well, someone will catch an interview or someone else will yell at me later or fix it eventually. I think I probably agree with having a more proactive approach to these things. I definitely think it's just an opportunity for us to really collaborate together just to do amazing things in this space. Because I think sitting in engineering, sometimes you don't know what you don't know. And being able to kind of just be a little bit more connected just to the higher level things. It doesn't need to get into the leads of a compliance expert, but just having a little bit more awareness of where the data is flowing. What's the impact? How would the customer respond to this? How would an individual respond to this? Just kind of thinking about those key things, I think just helps in general. I was thinking also, Jamie, about what you mentioned about the different requirements and this is continuously changing the compliance goal and the compliance requirements. That's a problem that we have to face, but I think that there are some core values or core things that are always present that information should be accessed only by people that need to access that information or is authorized to access that information that is always the same in GDPR, in ISO 27001, that are those that I know more. But I'm sure that in others that I don't know, HIPAA and others are similar. So people that need to access and has a need to know, probably they are allowed to access. Probably you need to have somewhere a log with who has access when to the data. So with some principles, maybe you comply with a lot of compliance requirements. But the difficulty is to extract these core things you have to do, map them to all the compliance and also to know all these different laws and regulations that might apply to you. Florence, I think maybe changing just a little bit on the topic here, because when we were talking before, I think what you do is so important here at Red Hat. But I also wanted to have you maybe comment from when we talk about developers. In my experience, a lot of times, things that may look minor in one piece. Oh, well, maybe we don't need to fix that or that's just a minor over here. Do you want to touch on a little bit? I think we talked about those minor things all added together can sometimes be catastrophic. Yeah, that is something that especially on cloud services can have a big impact. Vulnerabilities that we have been analyzing vulnerabilities in the past for individually each one. So we have the CVSS that is a calculation of the severity of the vulnerability, but from an individual point of view of only seeing the vulnerability. But these minor vulnerabilities combined on a service, on a system, on a company together can make a big impact, a big severity and that is difficult to see. I as an analyst, I try to see the whole picture, but it is difficult to see it individually. So this minor vulnerability today maybe that we maybe can accept as is or not prioritized to be fixed. But maybe together with other minor vulnerabilities tomorrow put at risk the whole system or the whole service. That is a challenge where there are proposals to have more information about this like attack vectors or attack flows, but it is very difficult. So this maybe lets me pivot perhaps ungracefully to my next question, which is sort of like, you know, with this whole shift of cloud cloud services and you know, like, and context serving open source right things like these are huge in private industry. Do you see in this government certifications or requirements changing in the future in the context of like open source projects like Kubernetes? When you get certifications one aspect to think through is, is that are you certifying the technology or are we looking at the products of a specific iteration of the technology which is branded as a product by a company or even the community, right. So when we look at certifications one clear thing that both open source users and even companies need to differentiate is when you pass a security certification when they pass a standard that is specific to a version of the code probably a version of the product, right. So from a threat assessment perspective both the users and admins need to be aware of that of that particular version where it was assessed for a threat and noted safe. And this becomes even more complicated for certifications in the context of a solution right you have a few pieces of code from different projects and vendors interacting. So clearly defining the interrupt matrix of what can be used and what is tested and good to go in your in your deployment I think that's critical from a certification perspective if not it becomes a huge two by two or a three by three matrix that that's impossible to certify at some point. I think that's a really, really good point.  You know, there's there's so many things and so many opportunities right so I can, I completely understand that in a sense. Recently the United States has issued this executive order that affects how we do some some things I'm not specifically working on on that but I know the industry in general is looking is thinking how to comply with it how to comply better with it. It's a it's something that we have seen with the solar winds bridge recently that we can do, maybe not better because maybe we are already doing what it requires but make it more visible maybe inform other parties. So I think it is something that isn't continuously evolving. And don't know if new certifications are coming but the industry itself, it is obvious that we have to do it better with or without legal requirements or certifications. I think it's definitely like sparked interest and you know a little bit more focus in the space right headline news always grabs the attention of everyone but I think that we just need to think about it in a much different way than we ever have before. You know, I think last year we talked about like the impacts of like COVID and privacy.  How do we put those guard rails up right and you know, those are things that we think about every day and, you know, just any and maybe we could just do like a little brainstorming around like you know what, what are some of the things that you think some of the developers should be thinking about, you know, as we kind of go through this, you know, transition with a focus on cybersecurity. I think that one important thing is improving what we are talking about the supply chain but specifically what we do on our secure development lifecycle or secure secure way that we create information and for the products and services that we ship to process it with security on the pipelines. So that's that is an important thing. I think we communities in general do what they what they can and work with the tools they have in many different ways, but we have to put focus on adding security on those development life life cycles to an automating things on if we do, we do that when new requirements arrive when we have to improve anything it would be easier because at the end there is the software in services and products if we work on securing the software in general the security of everything will will improve. So Jimmy, a quick note if you learn the topic right so when you look when you say software supply chain security it's like from from the code the production the libraries use is your end product secure enough as it gone through enough testing right. One other thing also that we've been noticing some of the recent features is just that the software is the latest version of the newer versions may be secure but in the community or a product but they just the users just haven't upgraded right it's probably there's a missing link where the the supply chain has done its job but the communication between that chain to the user where they get a notification on how critical it is and the reason they need to go to this newer version apply a fix that seems to be a missing point to read that that is a place for the user. I think Florence you to point we need a lot more automation alerting is is there is a certain level of a security threat that was fixed the users need to know with with some notification around here is how critical this is and and here is how we recommend we upgrade it right that that has been a missing piece that's causing a lot of beaches recently. It's funny you just said that because I was sitting here thinking there's there's a multiple pieces of this pie from security right if you look at supply chain and then security testing and then just regular testing and how we develop things and education of our engineers to ensure that they understand. My experience is engineers are always trying to do the right things sometimes they just don't know the security implications of what they're doing. And so educating but then also it's like then you have the the the management side of thing from it and it or operations or whatever other parts of it so there's a whole lot of things so I like that you type that in there to the to cover more of the pieces of time sure there's others I left out. So do again, we breathe open source right and I'm an engineer like this is something that'd be interesting for me to other any open source projects initiatives or anything of communities even that are aiming to improve things in this space. You know, speaking like vulnerability scanning I know that GitHub has like sent me emails on occasion saying hey you need to update this package, but that's one 70 few months and then like I usually ignore it, right unless it's on an important repo I guess, but I guess other open source systems which aim to do something similar to that. Which I'm not, I have no idea if GitHub's thing is open source, but yeah. Yeah, the, there are projects like in general like organizations like a wasp or open SSF. There are many organizations that work on the security part or wasp for example is an organization that is for a long time, supporting open source tools for improving the security, like dependency check for example for dependencies or was that for the dynamic security testing. So it has been always there with good information. In that in the sense of an organization and there are many tools that I mentioned like for example dependency check or what's up that are very useful very easy. They are designed to be integrated on the supply chain that the tools are there maybe they have to be improved. But the important thing is as we have mentioned that maybe more security people should participate in these communities and help including these tools, help using these tools in an intelligent way, not not only doing a scan and sending the results with 50 pages of findings, but really really identifying the real vulnerabilities and helping to improve the open source projects. Okay, so I lost track of time we only have a minute or two left. Anyone have any last words or thoughts they want to share. So, I mean, let's get back to you as a developer, right? You are on the right code and you have a panel of product manager security experts, people managers. So what do you want from us? What does the developer community want from other experts willing to help you? And how can we help you? I think make it easier for me to understand how to fix something right like


for any lack of momentum you see with me. It's solely responsible to Anraag because he's given, every time I meet him, he gives some idea which confuses me. This time it was a eight hour sleep thing. I don't sleep eight hours. Slowly the number of hours are increasing as Dentsu is doing better and better. But it's certainly not eight hours, but I take the thing. Secondly, I would say Anraag, you've done very well to put the pressure back on me and saying all the numbers are going to come by me, but guess what my team has said. Harsh, don't speak beyond a point because we will do a better presentation than you just speak this much and stop. So that's what I've been told. But a big welcome and thank you for everyone here in the audience. And Anraag, thank you for partnering us in this wonderful report that we have released. The eighth, I was the edition of this report. Many years back I believed that people didn't believe this report will make sense. And there were questions asked about whether this report will ever continue for more than a year or two. I must say that people outside the industry, I think I know more people outside the industry than within the industry still after nine months of being here, everyone still looks at this report as the Bible, I would say. This is not a report in my view. It's almost like a Bible. People look at the current and people want to gaze at the future very clearly. And this report does a wonderful job of that. If you look at Dentsu, and I'd like to sort of tell you why this report sort of and the partnership with Eforum has made sense for us this year. You've always been a thick of digital. And as we've looked at honing in our positioning for India, we've been talking about us being a tech and marketing consultancy. That's the way we're positioning ourselves. So any challenge, any question raised on the area of marketing, business or tech, people should come to us to talk to us about it. And while we position ourselves in this space, they're very clearly two big levers are global vision or positioning talks about. One big lever is about us being people-centered transformation company. What this means is, as an agency, we do understand our people better. We understand our consumers better. We understand our clients' consumers better. And we want to be a part of the journeys or the changing journeys which each of our clients or employees go through, with more and more digital and AI coming in. The second pillar that we talk about is, again, very close to my heart, around us being a B2B2S firm, business to business to society company. We want to work more and more for society, do the right things for society. And if it means there are projects or programs that we can do, we will bender back to do those projects even better and better. Over the last eight or nine months, we've tried to bring this vision to life. And there've been four streams that we've looked at. The first stream has been extreme client obsession. Work around the client, everything else is secondary. The second theme is around AI. And we believe that AI will be the big thing that will change the dynamics of this industry and for us at Denso, as we go forward. Third, sustainability. And fourth, innovation and creativity. I must say that the report and the way sort of it's been constructed, it has involved AI on rock tier point, it's not been written by us, but we've used AI to write the report. But not only that, I think the way this report has been coming out and it talks about how AI is impacting media is at the core of Denso's heart and the way we're trying to position ourselves as a company. As we look at the report being unveiled to all of you, it does show a healthy growth this year of the ad-ex moving up to 110,000 plus crores, with digital being a strong number one. I'll have Abhik this fast, come and talk about this. He's our EVP for Consumer Insights. But before that, Abhik, thank you to all of you here. I genuinely believe that this report is for all of us. It's not for Denso or E4M only. It's for us to try and collaborate, gaze the future and try and see what sense we can make for it. So thanks once again for the partnership, the E4M, Tim, Andhra, Michelle, Naval, and everyone who's coming here today to celebrate the day with us. Welcome Abhik and thank you so much.