I'm going to call the order of the Public Works Commission meeting today, July 26 at 6.33, actually, by my watch. The first item is to call the order and welcome and solicit comments from our chair, current chair, and your experience serving as chair. Nothing at this point. OK. So second item is the agenda itself. Is there any motion to accept the agenda as written? Motion to approve. I'll second the motion. Perfect. Any discussion? OK. Call the call to vote. All in favor? Aye. Aye. I don't know if he's perfect. Aye. All right. So third item, which is the thing I pointed out earlier, was the election of the chair, vice chair, and secretary. I will continue facilitation of the meeting to the close of the decision on the vote of the chair itself and then hand it off to the future chair. So in the election of the chair for the commission, is there a motion to suggest or recommend the next chair? I'd like to make a motion to nominate commissioner O'Neill Venomco as the chair. OK. I will second that motion. My understanding is you don't necessarily have to have a second or a motion, but it's just a recommendation. Is there other? I will say on my part, I've enjoyed the honor and privilege of being chair for the past, I believe, three years. On the other hand, it has been three years. And I'd be more than happy to get someone else to chair. Perfect. Look forward to a vote. No other nomination. So are we hearing no other nominations from the entire commission? I don't know if Daniel's able to hear us. I've been able to hear it the whole time. OK, perfect. So knowing that with commissioner Venomco as the nominated chair, I present the vote all in favor. Aye. Aye. Aye. Perfect. So it passes. OK. So I will hand this off to Peggy. OK. Congratulations. Congratulations. Thanks. It's a nail biter. Now we go to vice chair. The election for a vice chair. Make a motion to nominate commissioner Damiani for vice chair. We don't technically need a second, but if anyone. I'll second it. OK. I don't have any other nomination. I'm just happy to allow that I know he's not here to speak up or defend himself from this. Why did they talk to him before he left on vacation? And he seemed excited and willing to serve our leadership roles. OK. Yes, he did. I spoke to him as well. Commissioner Mutano, any comments on? No comments. Sounds great. OK. A vote then. Do we have to vote? Yes. Yes. Then for vice chair, for all in favor of commissioner Damiani as a vice chair, say aye. Aye. Aye. Opposed? Aye. Perfect. So passes. So passes. OK. In the past, we haven't had a secretary that was a bit of a contentious last round. Is this something that we're required to hold? I think you can either decide to have a commissioner or staff member represent the secretary's responsibilities. So we had staff members. Last year, I think Val. Not our chair. Is it Val or Holly? Secretary. Do we know if Val is willing? I think Val would be willing and would continue to serve as a great secretary if he wanted. Can I nominate Val to be the secretary? I'll second that. Do we get any kind of approval from Val in the ether? I think as staff, it's our job to manage the minutes if that's not something the commission prepared to do. So whether it be Val or other staff members would find a way to cover that. But it's good to have a direct appointment to that responsibility if you so choose. So if you want to vote on that. Yes. So all in favor of a staff, keep it generic, a staff member, public work staff to be our secretary and minute taker. Mostly Val, but could be other staff. All in favor? Aye. Aye. Aye. OK. Motion passed for public work staff member to be our secretary. OK. Next we have our public forum. So we have three minutes per person time limit. And then we move to the consent agenda. And then we'll have the Chase Street traffic calming where folks could comment again or in you don't have to comment again if you don't want to. But there is an opportunity to comment specifically on Chase Street. So I open the floor now to public comments. Your name is on the list. Make sure you or if you're here and you want to speak, please sign in. Yes, so you can either speak to just generally a public forum or you can wait for the item to be heard, speak to that as well. So your choice. First up is Joel. Yeah. So this is my name is Joel. Live on Chase Street, Old East End. This is actually just in general about the process of the Chase Street traffic calming project. Dayton, thanks for giving us the time. We had for those who don't know, we had meetings with Dayton before the project was really kicked off just to let me know our concerns. And then we had a block party on the street and then a follow up meeting, all of which Dayton attended. And most, if not all, the residents really appreciated the attention and care they felt was given to the block. And I think it was a great model that I'm not sure if there's official plans to keep meeting with residents in this way, but having a representative come to where we live with diagrams of project proposals was just a fantastic way to get things done. So just in general, I would just like to voice my support for the attention given to the community. Thank you. Thank you. Next up. Next up we have Samantha. Hiya. Live on Chase Street, Old East End. And I'm gonna kind of second what Joel said and thank the staff of DPW for giving attention to our street and allowing us to all work together. I think that's something that's really important is allowing the people of the Old East End Neighborhood Coalition to help provide any data that we can and help, just help with communication and figuring out what can best serve people in the residents of Chase Street. Thank you. Thank you. David. Thank you. I'm Dave Collie. I don't live on Chase Street, but I live on Nash Place. And that's, I lived in the neighborhood for 32 years and the Chase Street, Barrett Street, Grove Street is part of my neighborhood too. I work with the Old East End Community Neighborhood Coalition. And I just want to put this project in context of some other things that we're doing as well. You know, we started a bigger project called the People Powered Neighborhood. And we've been, you know, about five years ago, we did what was called a series of walk audits in the neighborhood to try to assess conditions, both walkability and traffic and safety. And in that period, we found that there were about 11 major improvements that needed to be completed. Well, the good news is that three, you know, three of those major improvements have been completed, but there's still a variety of things to do. And we decided this year that we wanted to take another look and reassess five years later how we're doing. So we are in the process of conducting walk audits throughout the neighborhood. This is a kind of a detailed assessment of the condition of the sidewalks, the walkability. We set up observation posts where we're looking at intersections, we're doing traffic counts, we're looking at quality of stops. We actually have a speed gun and we're monitoring speed on Grove Street. I can report that less than 5% of cars on Grove Street are going at the speed limit or under. We are also having an online survey, which we're surveying neighborhood residents about conditions. It's a bigger project. We have actually received funding from AARP. We're one of 300 national recipients of a grant to do improvements. So those are, we're looking at these improvements in detail so that we can formulate some ideas about what we can be doing as a neighborhood to help neighborhood safety and improve walkability. So, so far we've held about what I would call 70 events. We've had 68 volunteers. We've had about 80 hours of volunteer time taking a look at this. And we're gonna compile all this in a report that should be available in about a week to two weeks. Where we go from here is that we will hold community meetings to talk about what are the major improvements that we should be focusing on. And we certainly wanna work closely with DPW as we move forward in that. And the funding that we have is available to help make some of these improvements happen. So just wanted to give you an update on some of those things. And once again, Dayton and Julia, thank you so much for your involvement with our neighborhood. It's been a pleasure. Mark, your choice. If there's your choice, there's opportunity now and there's opportunity later. We can move to Zoom and call Sharon Busher. Yes, hi, good evening. I can't hear you all that well. I hope you can hear me all right. Can you? I see your head's nodding, so thanks. I hear you now. Yes, that's better. So I'm sorry I'm not there in person. There is something on your agenda that you are actually going to allow some public input for. It has to do with where equipment's going to be placed for staging for the Main Street project. And this came up before, and I spoke about it, you're going to be using that surface parking lot on Main Street and Winooski Avenue, sorry, something just kind of turned on in my house, sorry. And I had commented that that was a popular place. And I was worried about the impact it would have on events downtown, especially the Flynn. And events on Church Street. The reason I'm worried is that this is just the reality of the way the world is. I used to feel comfortable parking and parking structures, but I don't anymore, and I'm not alone in that opinion. And so I feel when the surface parking lot is gone, it leaves very few on-street parking places unless you go to parking garages. And so that is going to actually impact me going to the Flynn. I am only going to go to one event because I feel like I'm not gonna really be able to find a place to park. And I wondered if the Downtown Business Association had been contacted about this impact. And I wasn't sure, I understand that there's limited space downtown to put equipment. I get that. I just didn't know whether there had been any thought to preserving a few, like some of those spaces. I didn't know whether the whole parking lot needed to be taken up. I couldn't reach Kelly Devine, but I really was hoping that somebody could reassure me that there had been some thought in this. And consideration for those who like me may feel like they've lost their only what they perceive to be safe place to park downtown. So I just wanted to call this to your attention again. I know I did it once before, but you're gonna vote on it tonight. And I don't pretend to think my comments are gonna make a difference, but I think you should be aware of that my comments are not just one person. It's the opinion of several people at least, maybe a lot more than that. Thank you. All right, hopefully you can hear me. Okay, I'm Jason Stuffo and I live on Colchester Ave. I'm part of the Burlington Walk Bike Council, the Old East End Neighborhood Coalition and been participating in the pedestrian powered neighborhood events. And so I'd like to thank the staff on the Department of Public Works for working with our neighborhood. It was very nice to have them come out, engage with us and come up with a solution. I'm also very excited to see the chicane put in on Chase Street to hopefully slow down the average speed of traffic in there, which is often very high, especially, actually not during rush hour. People come flying down there sometimes and then during rush hour, there's people who are frustrated. So some calming measures are much needed. And I'm in full support of this project. I didn't know if I was gonna be able to speak later during the actual event. So I just wanted to leave my comments here, but I'm excited to see this go in and hopefully there's a positive vote on it. So thank you. Thank you. All for public comment right now. Okay. So we'll close the public forum and move to the consent agenda. A motion to approve. I, yep, I moved to approve the consent agenda with the exception of the Main Street temporary parking. I have a few more questions about that particular one before we all vote. So I think Peggy has a standard practice. I think Brendan in the past had read through the list of consent items, just so people are aware and then. And then pulled out. Yeah. So Commissioner Mutano, do you mean the B Main Street parking? Yes. Okay. So we have approval of the draft minutes. We'll pull the Main Street parking police in ADA. Is that the one of question or is it really the. Let me get the precise number. Okay. It's maybe I that you're referring to. Yeah. Is it I? The chair and express consent. Yeah, I don't have my eye glasses with me at the moment. But it's like where all the construction equipment is going to go for the project. That's the one I want to talk about. Okay, item I. So we have a motion to approve the agenda and pull item I. So the consent agenda would include approval of draft minutes from last month, the Main Street parking police in ADA, BHS parking agreement, Bank Street time limits zone, Bachelors Street no parking, 530 North Street accessibility parking change, Main Street parking on South Champlain and St. Paul parking removal. We'll remain on the consent agenda. I'll second. A vote to. It seems a vote to amend the agenda. A vote to amend the consent agenda. The first, yeah. To the first one, two, three, four, five, six, seven, eight items, leaving off Main Street and South Winooski Ave. Vote, a vote on that. Aye. Aye. Aye. Aye. Okay, great, we're in agreement. Then you probably need to vote on the slate of consent items. Yes. Yeah. A vote on the consent items to approve the amended consent agenda. Take a motion to. A second. Second. Okay. All in favor of the amended consent agenda items. Aye. Aye. Okay. So now the Main Street and South Winooski Ave lot, we will move that to, can we amend it to item seven after the Chase Street traffic calming? Makes sense. Okay. Very good. All right, we'll move to the Chase Street traffic calming. We have communication from staff. Who is the star of the day here? Thank you, commissioners. And thank you all these vendors for those kind words. It's been a pleasure working this project forward and I'll just try to give a brief story about kind of how we got where we are, what these plans are, and what we've heard. So the background as you have in your memo is that in 2018, the neighborhood submitted a traffic calming request and following procedures in our traffic calming manual, we gathered data on the street. We saw 85th percentile speeds of 33 miles an hour, well over the 25 mile an hour speed limits. And an initial effort was put in to put a kind of a softer curve at the Colchester and Chase intersection. But that initial design, though possibly beneficial for reducing pedestrian crossing distances wasn't well designed with snow plows in mind. And so our city snow plows keeping our streets clear made quick work of it and it didn't really serve its traffic calming purpose. So this next round, we went into multiple meetings. We've talked about a lot of different designs on this. And throughout it, there was support and dialogue about the different types of traffic calming measures. But certainly we heard from the community, we wanna see something done quickly. We wanna see something done effectively. And through that, compared to the time spent to source and install speed bumps or construct more complicated measures, we saw this parking switch and this chicane design as one of the most implementable and effective designs possible. So that's why we have it. In your memos, you should see some of the public feedback about it. We got an initial supportive comment. We followed up by a community member on Rumsey Lane that pointed out to us that this is a good idea. We do need traffic calming, but really opposed to the way the parking is gonna block my sight lines getting in and out of Rumsey Lane, which is a private road, effectively treated like a driveway from DPW's perspective. But it is, if it's seen as that, it is a private road. It works much like a small cul-de-sac. So what you'll notice in your packets, and let me see if I can share my screen so that people watching can see this. One moment here. So what you'll see in your packet attachments is that we heard that comment and tried to make some adjustments to address that. So the bottom page here is the flyer that went out to the street that we distributed to all the neighbors and adjacencies. And you can see kind of in this area right here how the parking spots, as designed, would come right up to the edge of Rumsey Lane. When we got that comment, we immediately went back to our drawings, took a look at what we could adjust, and we did find the flexibility to add a 10-foot setback, and that's what's reflected in the ordinance as well as this final design that we would plan to implement so that the edges of Rumsey Lane, that 16-foot wide drive, would have about 10-foot on either side before the parking spaces would begin. And we'd likely paint that in and add signs to that effect, saying no parking in those areas. So just kind of want to point out that narrative, and I should also point out that not included in your memos, but in my inbox from DPW Planning are two other residents of Rumsey Lane expressing the same concerns about just having those sight lines. So we certainly think from our perspective about the 20-foot depth of the street and the low speeds required to get in and out that there should be enough room to make those turns, particularly with the 10-foot setbacks that we've now installed. So that's the short story. I'm happy to go into any more detail about how this got here, where we are or what we've heard so far. So I think we want to add just one more element to this, and that is this is the traffic that we planned, there is adoption of amendments to the traffic regulations that relate to parking to effectuate this traffic calming plan. So you should see in your packet also the structured amendments to the traffic breaks or itself. So I don't know if you've seen or noted that, but that would be something you would have to vote on as well as support of the traffic calming plan. Mm-hmm, the plan and the language, right? Yep, so your part of your adoption is the amendments to the traffic breaks. Great. Thank you. Yep. Commissioner discussion. Shall I start with you, Commissioner Garn? Sure, sure, I didn't start with you. I've been involved with a lot of the planning and so forth for this. This was one of the three options we were looking at. This one as city transportation planner, Aidan Crite, said is probably the easiest to implement and it should accomplish the things that we hope that it'll accomplish. I am in favor of it. I do see the challenges from some of the neighbors and I read through the packet that the sight lines and so forth, but I think you've mitigated that quite well. I will note that there is no paint on the ground now and so that's probably one of the challenges to actually paint in spaces or at least the sight line areas where people shouldn't park because the street is not a residential parking plan or zone area right now. But by putting in the no parking, this side of street and so forth from sign to sign, I think that it will solve it. Right now I think it's doable. Thank you. Commissioner Vox. I have just a few quick questions on this. I'm generally supportive of all traffic calming measures so I think this is great and it sounds like the public process is really good based on what we've heard from residents so that's good and that's important to me as well. I'd say the question I had in the purpose and need statement in our packets here, it says that in the plan BTV walk bike master plan that Chase Street is listed as a ideal 20 mile per hour street and I guess I'm wondering if that's sort of recommended in the plan why that wasn't part of this proposal that sort of seems like low hanging fruit to me. So yeah, I'm just wondering if you could speak to that. To my best answer to that question, what do you mean it was not included in this proposal? It doesn't seem like the bringing the speed limit down from 25 miles per hour to 20 was included in this proposal or am I interpreting that wrong? Sure, go ahead. So state regulation does not allow us to reduce the speed limit below 25 unless it's a downtown, try to remember the exact part of a downtown bill itself within the central business district. So it's a different process basically. Yes. And the other thing I'd point out too that I think if you look at plan BTV walk bike and the 20 mile per hour zones, there are these larger challenges about within the state of Vermont setting speed limits that low but our intent at DPW is I think when we look at these slow zones and these slow streets to design the streets for 20 miles an hour because that's gonna infinitely be more effective than putting up a sign that says a different number. I can put up a sign that says any number I want but people will drive the way the street feels generally speaking and there's a lot of research to back that up. So I think this is very much part of trying to get to 20. Okay, thank you for all that context. Very helpful. And then the other thing, this is sort of a new configuration to me as I'm trying to picture it as someone who bikes everywhere. And I'm just wondering if you can sort of speak to how a bicycle is supposed to navigate in and out of parked cars. I'm just imagining like that weaving and sort of getting stuck between those two. I can't remember which side of the street it's on but just sort of getting stuck in between the parked cars and like a car trying to pass you if that makes sense. Like sort of weaving in and out of those spaces. So in effect, you have the same room now on the street with parking all along one side as you'll have when this parking changes. It's just that the actual alignment of the street will adjust. But in effect, anywhere on the street at the narrowest point, you have a 10 foot parking stall and about 20 feet of roadway. And so we're changing the alignment of that but it doesn't actually pinch a vulnerable user in the street any differently anywhere in the corridor. So I don't foresee a significant impact to the cycling community from this type of design. Fellow DPW staff helped me out. This is already in place where? On Bright Street? So if you're curious to sort of see that, that would be the, we haven't heard any negative feedback from the cycling community about that. So one of the things that's important to kind of embedded in this design is that the tapers are kind of built around that geometry of 20 miles an hour. And so whether it be a car or a bike, it should be, they generally practice should be following navigating those terrain at that speed. Now, if people speed and exceed that, then obviously the taper may be too short. That's the idea of the geometry is to force the hand of people to travel at that speed. Thank you. That's all I have. Thank you, Commissioner Books. Commissioner Rotano. Yeah, that certainly is robust public process. And I think everyone should be doing this on their own streets. And it's awesome that there was grant funding to support that, the work and having all of these different community groups and organizations also involved is awesome. So I hope that the city could certainly continue that and I explore ways to make that thing that we're doing a little bit more. My actual question concerns the language in the code of ordinance in various places. There is distances and headings. So it's like somewhere 272 feet northeast of Colchester Avenue to give an example. There's a few of those in there. Is that common in our code of ordinance currently where parking is allowed to a certain distance and also compass heading? Does northeast mean out of 45 degrees on a compass like northeast and is this common language in our ordinances now? Yeah, I guess where it comes down to. You gotta have some way of spatially referencing a beginning and ending point within a street segment on what side of the street. So this is the common language that we use to explain where those key points are, where milestones and where it begins and where it ends. So yes, this is very normal. It's more of a challenge for streets that aren't directly, clearly, north or east or west or north or south. But the best of our ability, we try to have references based on those spatial references and not things like a tree or a hydrant that can move or any of those things, it's curbed line. Curbed line does not normally change. All right, so 272 feet along the right of way, that's where it becomes no parking, for example. That's kind of a beginning point, yep. Righty, I guess I came up, I have another question that I was thinking about a little earlier. The, how occupied are the spots normally? Like in effect, is this really gonna chicane if there's only a few cars around during the work day, for example? Yeah, that's a great question. We sort of, I don't know that we have studied data on Chase Street, but from all the engagement and talking to people there and observing the street, we've seen very high occupancy on the street. And that's a critical concern when we're selecting this option among sort of a suite of options is that there does need to be high occupancy if there was only three cars on the street, there'd be no chicane. But as we've seen and feedback from the community has been that there's very high occupancy, we're pretty confident this will work out in that regard. Can I add to that? You also have elements that kind of, about the taper. Yeah, so for instance, if there are no cars where this new parking is shifting, if you look at your package, those little pink triangles that we're illustrating, that is gonna be paint on the ground with a decorative planter in the center of it, that that's gonna really mark the edges of where that parking is. So even without a car or two at those front or ends of the front or ends of those chicanes, they'll still be visible to drivers on the street that the road shifts. And I would just add that on how many years ago it was that we took parking off Colchester Avenue. And all of those cars are now coming onto Chase Street and some onto Barrett Street. And that's just where the parking got displaced for the bike lane, the uphill climbing bike lane. So living there, I can tell you that it is used. There's not a lot of empty spaces on the street. All right, yeah, thank you. I used to live on Chase Street. And then walking, I didn't really notice speed as being a huge issue. I never felt unsafe, but I'm glad that neighbors were listening to. And yeah, I hope this is the kind of thing we could be talking about more often. Yeah, thank you. Thank you. Commissioner Hogan. Thank you. Yeah, thanks for the work on this. Can you just comment on the speed data that you quoted here and where and when that was collected? Is that like a loop detector in the road for a bit? If you give me a moment to dig into that, I will. I can tell you that I can tell you without having to dig it through files to find the exact dates that these are typically automated to reader accounts that we put down, they go into, give me a minute, I'll try to actually find this data so I can speak to it explicitly. But about one week long counts. So we get 24 seven counts of speeds, volumes, vehicle types. And that's where we kind of base our data on our exact counts. Let's see if I can find it here. It was done in 2021. Okay, counted in 2021. And just the. Okay, I don't need the exact date if you don't have it handy. And the nature of my question was, I was curious whether it was after the bump out went into slow traffic that was entering Chase from Colchester Ave. 11-5. Sounds like that's two years ago. It probably preceded that bump out. Because the bump out I think was put in with the plastic things just before the winter when the plows took them out. Okay. So that does proceed the installation of that. Okay. Maybe great. I'll see if we could get another reading after to see if this is. Yeah, that's very much part of my attention. Making the magnitude of impact. We hope it does. So anywhere we put these measures in and one of the reasons this measure in front of you is in we're going to build new curve and install something more expensive and more time consuming is because we want to test this out. And so I'm very much committed to working with our team to anywhere that we install these, get some post occupants, let it settle and let people adapt to the new traffic pattern but then get readings on it afterwards because we might find out that Chicanes by far the best traffic calming solution we have in our toolkit or it might not be our best solution. And so everywhere in the city we're doing these we're trying to get after data as well. So can I add one more thing too? Nobody's using, there is no physical barrier at the bump out at the head of Chase Street any longer. It's if there's paint on the ground but I can tell you that nobody follows that. Everybody just except for me. My wife's always saying, what are you doing? Following the paint goes around. So I'm sure that it's the same. Well, maybe if we have a planter left over. Make that more prominent. That's not to get in the collection. Thank you. Nothing else for me. Okay. Yeah, so first kudos on the outreach and engagement as someone who does outreach engagement for a paid job. I think it really is important and to see, to have our residents coming out and speaking about this. So kudos to you, kudos to staff for supporting this kind of work and I hope to see more of it in the future. The data pieces, that's my big question, kind of how do we assess the efficacy of this and when? So what will that after data approach look like? How long do we wait before we go out there and figure out people have gotten used to this and they're adjusting? Well, and maybe back up, if everyone went the speed limit, we probably wouldn't even have like half as many public works commission meetings because so much of what we're doing is mitigating car speeding. Me too. So your question is to what's our process or timeline for follow-up data? Right. You know, I think I can't, I don't have a crystal ball to see exactly when in our right away team schedule if successful this would go forward, but assuming it went forward, you know, within this season before snowfall, I'd wanna let sort of the spring come and go and then put it into our traffic counts sort of package next year, right? So it would sort of be a kind of a year cycle to get it in there. You know, understanding too that we have so many of these meetings talking about traffic calming, the big thing to fit it in is with all the other streets where we don't have data or where there is another community saying, please we need your attention, traffic calming is a real issue on our street and where we need to get that data first. So it'll fit in amongst all those other requests. And I would sort of estimate about a year cycle time from the time it's installed to understanding the post-documents evaluation. Okay, and if approved, the goal is to have, you know, implementation this construction season? That is my goal. I cannot speak to whether that will, how that fits into our right away team that already is sort of, there's several other projects that we're, like your bull bout, we have plans for it. It should be in the ground, we're waiting. So the intention is that, I think worst case scenario would slide to the spring would be my estimation. And we're, right now, if that was the case, it would be part of sort of a package of these quick-biddle projects that we're trying to sort of assemble and make sure it happened for the spring. But the intent would be this year. Okay, and so the rollout then is, a full year of, or seasons of data, of implementation and use before you go back. I think so. I think that's best to allow people to understand what the changes are, get used to the pattern, change their behavior if they used to, like, speeding down it and not want to go somewhere else. Okay. So I think an important thing worth noting is if, as you know, the right away team is struggling with staffing and filling vacant positions and they have a lot of work ahead of them, not just within the tech services team with work like this, but they also are doing storm water work, water resource work. And so they're recycling and so on and so forth. So they're kind of taxed. And so there is no one answer to when could we do it? Sometimes we reach to a contractor to do it, depending if funding resources are available to be able to do that in the most financially effective way. But, you know, it's either time or money. In this case, we'd like to obviously, we'd like to have this happen sooner than later, but sometimes it's a hard choice whether we have staff in house or we can afford to have a contractor to do the same kind of work. But those are the options we weigh when we try to get these things moving. Okay, thank you. Oh, did you want to have one more? Oh, I'm sorry. Sorry about that. One more. Is about paint on the ground. For that 10 foot setback on, what is it, Rumsey Lane, right? I think that paint on the ground in signage for that is so important. I mean, I'm thinking of Brooks Avenue where there are some signs where, you know, this is a one spot space and they do do paint on the ground. Just because there's always driveway encroachment and creeping and for something that residents commented on and if this gets built out, certainly for the kind of the snow plow season, then making it that more difficult and not just dangerous for the people pulling out for those vehicles, but for cyclists and pedestrians as well. So really making sure the signage on that 10 foot bump out is clear. That's it. Go ahead. So maybe can you confirm that the language were in the ordinance that's drafted? Does that provision that 10 foot setback or is it? Without reading it right now, I'm near confident it does because we went through that cycle of work on it. As soon as we got the first comment back and did the CAD work, we went back to the, we had an original draft of this memo that did not have that and we updated that to include it. So normal practice for most dry ways is that I think the blanket ordinance is three feet. So there's been additional provision based on some of the comments that we were saying to the public and the team has made an effort to make that special provision. So it sounds like the regs have been built around that special provision. Okay. Thank you. Commissioner Mojano? Yeah, and I guess just to clarify, the project that might be bid out is just the paint on the road and also the two four or so planners altogether. And possibly signs in the ground, maybe? Signs? We have all the signs that are provisioned, yes. Okay. Like what's like a rough estimate on costs for a project of the sites? That's a difficult number for me to give you extremely accurately. It's largely in the anticipation that this is largely in-house work. We have the planters, Burlington has the paint. We'd likely have most of the signs. So it's a relatively low cost. I'd say it was definitely under the $5,000 mark. Like I said, we should be doing this on like on every street when there's a level of engagement and hopefully agreement among the neighbors. Yeah. So recognizing the staffing issues, I think that's important to kind of remind us and then we can circle back on what do we need to do to make sure that we're fully staffed to implement some of these. Yeah. Okay. I'll close commissioner discussion and open up to public comment. Before resources, some photos I snapped for you guys. I only have a few packets, so forgive me. Chair, Chair. I'll go on to this side here. Here, thank you. My name's Mark Rosenberg. This is my first time participating in a public forum. So I appreciate the commission and thank you for allowing the space and this opportunity. I don't want to mince my words, so I hope you don't mind. I've just prepared a brief statement to read out loud to you guys and appreciate your time hearing me out. I, along with my wife, who's two rows behind me, live at 37 T Street. We've owned our home and lived there full-time for three-plus years and counting. And we love the neighborhood and we hope to live there for many years to come. We're strong proponents of traffic calming measures on our street. Let me make that very clear. And we thank and appreciate everyone in this room and beyond from the meeting who've come together and helped bring this to the forefront. It's certainly something that needs to be done. However, we strongly feel that the scope of the current proposal does not take into account the impact of the residents of Rumsey Lane. And those of us, myself and my wife included, who access our driveway and our home via Rumsey Lane as well. To better illustrate this, you have some resources in front of you that I just passed out. Page one shows the Google Maps overlay of the neighborhood. I've highlighted Rumsey Lane along with the associated homes. As you'll see, there are a total of four single family homes on the lane. There are also three apartment buildings, totaling 23 bedrooms. By my estimate, that accounts for about 30 residents of Rumsey Lane who are not represented here tonight. People who reside here, people who rely on safe entry and exit of their street. And I wanna make it clear that, yes, we recognize Rumsey Lane is a private road, but that is not at the behest of the majority of the residents there as it's minority ownership from these apartment buildings. Believe me, we wish and pray every day that it was a public road. In fact, it's got public utilities on it. It's serviced by public city vehicles, plows, electric vehicles, so on and so forth. Moving on, I've emailed the Department of Public Works, my full list of concerns, including easy access for public service and emergency vehicles, not to mention the professional services that frequent our homes. This is detailed on page 50 in the meeting agenda. It's also worth noting, as stated earlier, the other residents of 10 Rumsey Lane have emailed support of these statements earlier today. However, I would like to use the remaining time to address my most serious concern that moving parking to the south side of the street on both sides of Rumsey Lane will significantly block the line of sight to oncoming traffic, thus making a dangerous and hazardous intersection. While I do appreciate the 10-foot setback I think you'll see is referenced on page four of this packet. That is in effect rendered not extremely useful as it certainly continues to block the line of sight with the proposed parking. These photos here that you see, they depict a sequence of a small SUV. Today, driving down the street, also present is a single parked vehicle within the space of the proposed parking area and outside the bounds of the 10-foot setback. And it's very clear. The line of sight toward the oncoming traffic is significantly impacted, if not completely blocked. And this is just one single parked car. The same goes for the opposite direction. And I ask you to imagine the impact of five more vehicles parked on each side of Rumsey Lane here. So this obviously poses once again, a dangerous intersection, a high potential of collision for any vehicle exiting Rumsey Lane, as well as those traveling up or down Chase Street. For this reason, I really urged the committee to vote against the current iteration, not the entire plan itself, but the current iteration of the traffic calming proposal. As for potential steps forward, I ask you to consider an extension of the public feedback period, specifically for those of us who utilize Rumsey Lane on a day-to-day basis. Look, there are many alternatives to achieving the desired outcome. We're all here looking to achieve the same goal. As my colleague here, neighbor, citizen mentioned earlier, one of my parting thoughts for you to consider is that the proposed parking chicane will only be fully effective at calming traffic should it be at or near 100% parking capacity. And while I know there have been some opinions from those who have been on the street much longer than me, I would also like to say my opinion is that given the ample amount of driveway parking on our street, every building has driveways and full parking lots, that I don't believe the street is typically at 100% parking capacity. And once again, I urge you to vote against the current iteration and in favor of drafting a more amenable solution and a more permanent solution to calming traffic on our street. So thank you for your time. Thank you. Bring this back to the commission for any further comments based on that. I'll just make one comment that I've lived on the street almost my whole entire life, not dead yet. And I've seen an increase to parking. And I just, I'm not rebutting the comment, but I do agree that there's a lot of driveway parking and area that people can park. But unfortunately, it's not just the residents of the street that park there now. It's the Colchester Avenue residents. And because it's not a residential parking program street or zone street, a lot of the UVMMC folks and even University of Vermont folks park down there and walk up the hill so they don't have to buy a parking permit or they don't have to park it like Fannie Allen and get bused in. So I do understand those comments, but I just needed to give a little more data. Thank you. And I acknowledge that as well. I have a state of my previously mentioned facts stand and those are the board might concern. Any other comments? Commissioner Fox, Commissioner Mutano. Yeah, I'm a little bad judging the, I guess, linear distance down the street in this one picture. So what's about 10 feet from where Ramsey meets Chase Street? And that's, yeah, you can't, it's a blind spot. Like you can't see the car going there. There, you know, when I lived on the street, right? I sometimes would cross over that way and it was predictable, right? Like you got the travel-ish lane and then on one side you had usually a few cars parked. But in a case like this, yeah, I feel like turning or like kind of crossing there. It just doesn't seem like it's a solution that's more for everybody. Yeah. I don't know. So Chairperson Viviaco, can I just kind of give context to what we normally deal with in terms of driveways and street corners in terms of sight line? Yes, please. So very normally, driveways, people park all the way to the edge. I perceive this as a driveway. Yes, there is, it's more of a, more than a normal driveway. One property is street properties. But if we were to provide full adequate sight line for all driveways, we would not have parking on the street. That effectively just doesn't make practical sense when people have a strong need for parking on the street. So there's a balanced need between the safety of people getting in and out of the driveway and sight lines against the need for and demand for parking. And so it's not easy choices, but it's not a normal, it's not irregular for people to park right up to a driveway cut. Driveway cuts are usually fairly wider than the car space getting in and out. So it really comes down to kind of a vehicle class that services that property, get reasonably in and out. So this gentleman mentioned commercial traffic, like such as trash pickup and those sort of things. This, I think, covers that. As I mentioned earlier, the three foot thing, ordinance that we adopted because we had people encroaching on driveways, all too often people couldn't simply get out. So access getting in and out, at least to traverse getting in and out beyond the sight line issue is what we've tried to achieve, at least with driveways with us three feet. But we've provisioned something more here in response to this gentleman's concern. It may not be enough for what would build comfort for him, but it's not unusual or irregular to have cars parked up to the edge of a driveway within three feet. So I hope that gives you some context in your deliberations, but that's how we see it. And I think we've made a greater provision than normal, is what I would say. Okay, thank you. I'm sorry for asking one more kind of follow-up question there. If this, if Rumsie Lane had been, well, like a, to use a term of art, road, right? Like a, you know, a road, right? Like how, with that exact geometry of the intersection, how much distance should, and you know, you design that setback is 10 feet. Well, I don't think you're seeing the same frequency of vehicles coming and going as you would a road. I would respectfully disagree on that. Understood. But I can tell you at three in the morning they're gone. Okay, let's keep this to, just be, we don't, we can't do back and forth once you make your comments. Yep. So on normal street where you have local street traffic, it's typically probably 50, 50 feet from corner, but this is not what this condition is in my opinion. Yeah, I don't know any roads in Burlington that are that short, but almost, I mean. It's really the function of how much traffic is being serviced and what the risk and exposure is in terms of the balance of need for parking versus safety and access blocking sidelines, those roads. I don't think you're gonna find many driveways that are meeting a sideline requirement like this gentleman's concerned about. Thank you. Commissioner Hogan, anything else? Nope, nope. I guess one other comment then is to add to any data is making sure that emergency services can access that the angle of that turn. It's 10 feet, I presume they would be able to, I don't, I can't see how wide the actual driveway, the 16 feet, is that right? Yeah, and we did review these with the fire department and they had, and that was before we added the setbacks and they didn't have any concerns given the 20 foot depth of the street after the parking is in place. So that's all I can say for what I've discussed about emergency vehicle access, but we discussed that access specifically to Ramsey Lane and they didn't see a problem with it in their first review. Okay. I mean, it could be, I mean, so, just so the commission understands, normally when we put a turning template on an intersection, it's the function of the width of the roadway relative to the opening and the throat of that opening for vehicle to traverse into that space. I don't think, I don't know if we've done the turning template on this with the fire apparatus, but this is exceptionally wide for any sort of normal street where you would service a trash truck. And trash trucks typically are probably the same sizing class of a fire apparatus. This looks like it's 36 feet across, 10 feet on the left, 10 on the right, and 16 roads. Okay. I mean, we could put a turning template if you really thought it was a strong concern, but we don't feel it as a strong concern. Right, no, it was just a question. All right, we'll close, commission our comments part two and move this to a vote. Is there any motion? Oh, oh, I forgot. I forgot. Thank you. Is there anyone on the phone? No, we have not had any reasons during this prior public comment. Okay. I'll take this to a vote. I'll accept a motion. Motion to approve staff's recommendation. I'll second the motion. All in favor? Aye. Aye. Any abstentions? Oh, no, nay. An aye for myself. So, four yeas. So we just dealt with the record. There are concerns about that continuing concerns. Once this is implemented, we will certainly be watching it very closely and that there is a need to move coming back. No. So this is not the last conversation. Things to come if there are, there's a traditional need that's been there, but we will pursue that. Exactly, because this is paint on the ground. Yes, that was all very easy to adjust. Yes, okay. Thank you. So the motion passes. Thank you. Thank you all for your comments. Okay, we will move to item six, the Main Street and South Winooski Ablot, the encumbrance. It's item seven. Item seven, I'm sorry, item seven. Or item 6.1, whatever. Sorry. We'll slow here. Would you like a short presentation or? Yes, a short presentation would be great. You heard the concerns of Councillor Bushore about parking, what other places. I think one of her, two of her comments were about, could we just use part of it for the construction landing? And then also just personal safety if parking is moved from there into a structured car park. Yep, so let's start with the space requirement. As the city engineer mentioned, Main Street is exceptionally constrained. Our downtown is very constrained and a project of this size is gonna have a pretty significant impact space-wise. And in all honesty, even just having the Main and Winooski lots to be able to work from will be a significant challenge to any contractor. The parking lot itself, about half of it will not be safe to occupy while we do the ravine sewer work. So the excavation for the new sewer, the decommissioning of the existing sewer. So that half of the lot fundamentally is unavailable while that work is occurring. We're hopeful to be able to use the other half of the lot both for displaced fire vehicle parking. Not vehicle, but the employee staff parking. So below the fire station, there are three to seven vehicles at any given time that park there for staff turning over shift-wise, as well as three vehicles that park down there for the fire department. There is also seven surface spaces and of that about half will likely be unsafe for them to occupy while the ravine sewer work. So this lot will serve to both replace their lost available parking while that work is happening, as well as provide trailer space for our resident engineer to be on the street to be available for the businesses and others who have any questions about how to get different places on the street as well as the contractor so that their foreman is there and present and able to oversee the work that's occurring. So during the initial phases of the project, the entire lot will be very occupied, both with the displaced fire parking, two trailers and likely a very active construction zone. The next part of it, we are still asking that the lot be used so that the contractor could then stage materials. The next sequence of the work is a lot of water sewer pipe kind of work and to make that work happen efficiently having those types of materials closely available will really facilitate expeditious work along the corridor which is what we've heard throughout all of our outreach. The later phases of work, we are working on structuring our encumbrance agreement so that if the contractor is able to give back some parking spaces later on and that they don't necessarily need it for staging or stockpiling or we don't think that they're using it very well, we can give back portions of public parking but that is certainly a to be determined. As for where the parking is being displaced, we're working on a fee payment structure that will go to the city council so that we can pay the traffic fund for their lost revenue and they can then turn around and pay unified parking to subsidize parking at minimum inside of the courthouse parking garage. So while it is structured parking and it's a single level that is covered, it is publicly available as public parking throughout the entire day, we are also talking with them about some of the other surface slots that they maintain in the evening and weekend hours and if the courthouse parking is successful in its initial trial, we will look to see if we can extend that type of parking subsidy to some of those other surface slots that are generally not fully occupied evenings and weekends based on our traffic study or our parking study. What subsidizing it means is that for the courthouse parking lot, what we have email negotiations and are working to get in an actual agreement is that the current rate is $4 an hour, the city would pay $1.50 an hour and unified parking is looking at reducing their rate by a dollar. So the $1.50 is what it remains to its customers which is what they currently pay in the Maine and Manuski lot. So trying to equate the rate that they're paying on street or in the lot to the rate that they're gonna pay in the courthouse garage. That one is an easier one for UPP, the other surface slots while we might be able to subsidize some of the rate, UPP is not able to lower their other rates and their other lots because their agreement doesn't extend them to adjust the rate that way. But ongoing active conversation for those locations. I guess we could stop there because that was a lot. If you could speak to kind of the, maybe the commissioner understands us through previous conversations, but maybe the public doesn't is what kind of a process we arrived, how long the process that we discussed. Many times we discussed publicly working with the business community and it's been kind of evolved over many of the conversations. So maybe we could speak to kind of the public process. I think Sharon's concern was safety and comfort within use of parking branches as well. So. Yes, and we've spoke with UPP about that. They have recently actually been doing work inside of that garage because they were, it's not a high occupancy space for them, mostly for the similar concerns. So they have been indicated that they've been doing some lighting work in there. And there was something else and my apologies, it's not coming to the front of my mind what else that they were working on, but lighting was definitely one of them. It might have been the cleanliness, but that was something that we've been working on. But to speak to the outreach, we've met with probably about half the businesses on the corridor at this point in time, face to face, another handful of property owners. We've had business meetings and most people are certainly concerned about the flow of traffic and people just even being willing to drive past Main Street's construction coming in through the construction zone as we can obviously look outside. That's intimidating for some folks. The second is obviously where are they gonna park? You guys passed a few items tonight that help with some side street parking capacity at your May meeting. You also passed some additional parking that happens up the street on the Union to Willard Block. So there's those opportunities already and so we're hopeful with those additional on-street opportunities, the connection that we're an active conversation we're having with UPP that really helps provide the balance. Jeff has a great word for it but it's kind of like the plate of parking options are sweet for people in different comfort levels. Okay. Thank you. I'll take a breath. Thank you, thank you. All right, Commissioner Mutano. Yes, so I guess my original question that came up originally that led me to pushing this off was like, are there really any other viable alternatives at all that were studied in the downtown area? I guess I can't think of any. There's a, we did look at some of the area behind Memorial, but the condition of that building and the need to fence it made that very challenging. There is a property immediately adjacent to the main in Minuski that a contractor could rent from that property owner, which I imagine will occur to be able to make this viable. The other alternatives are a few blocks away and staging at the waterfront after everything that's happened, construction wise down there, doesn't seem like the most economically viable choice for our community, leaving the waterfront restored and not under construction while main streets under construction is gonna be one of, I think, our marketable factors. And so I'm guessing the whole area that we're encumbering, it's gonna be all behind some kind of chain fence, right? Is that? I think at different points in time, various portions of it will be fenced, but to allow the firefighters their access, that fence will move around. Alrighty, yeah.  Yeah, thank you. Commissioner Hogan, I'm just going to chair Hogan. Nothing in my hands. Commissioner Barr. Sure, you kind of mentioned that UPP was looking at some improvements for the courthouse, and that's one of the things that I've always wanted to see, a little brighter. I mean, sometimes I've gone in there and the vines are growing on it, so I feel like I'm going into the secret garden or something, but it's dark and dark in there, and that's why a lot of folks, chair included, are not excited about using that, so anything they can do to improve that would be a huge bonus for not only this project, but for future projects, so. I'll be brief, I guess. I just want to say thanks for reiterating that context and that background on the public process. I think we, on the commission, remember we had many conversations about this in previous meetings, so thank you for reiterating that. I think it's important for folks to hear. Actually, there's one other thing. Oh, just in terms of, yeah, like those other opportunities, right, those temporary parking options on the street and the ones that are in process, just making sure that we're communicating those to the public as best as we can will be super important, so just a plug for communicating those, and that's it, yeah. Um, I'm sympathetic to Councilor Busher's comments. When I think of a car park, I think of, you know, when I had young kids and just getting kids in and out of a dark car park and things were even safer Burlington back then, or getting my mom now, you know, in her 80s in a car park. It's, if we think about our most vulnerable users and think about making things safe for them, it becomes safe for all of us. So, when we look at the lighting and when we speak to whatever car park company or land owner, if you think about your child and you think about your aging parent and work towards, I think, that level of safety, but then I think we're doing a good job and actually making sure that that lighting is there, that there are parking ambassadors. I know we have those in city lots. What can, what role can our parking ambassadors play in any of, in any of these changes? I think, as Commissioner Fox pointed out, the signage and wayfinding is going to be super important. I'm imagining coming down Main Street and, you know, finally as a cyclist, I feel like, great, I can go into Main Street and turn right onto North Winooski Avenue and now thinking, oh, as a cyclist, I don't even know where I'm gonna go. As a visitor to the city, that feeling of, oh, I have to get through this. What's through it? What's on the other side? The signage, the wayfinding, and making that gateway, it is gateway, right? As welcoming as possible while we're changing the curtains kind of a thing. And I know that those are pieces that, the details of which we'll probably have to figure out as we kind of move through the construction process, but if we keep that at the fore of, we have this construction, we're dealing with the ravine, and I did look at a map and was trying to find any other possible space and where I found space. I was like, oh, right there is by the old, the hood plant, the milk plant, and I was like, oh, right, because the ravine goes under there too. So, it's just gonna help you out, but. I appreciate that, but yes, we will be digging up good portions of King Street right in that vicinity. Exactly, so the challenge with this space is that we need to do construction there, and it needs to be this landing place for all our construction. While we're doing that, we need to continue for our businesses, for our residents to be as welcoming as possible. So, those are all comments, not questions. No, thank you. I really appreciate the parking ambassador comment and having them extend over into the other garage while we direct people there. That's not one we've heard before. Great. Any comments online, any concerns online? You don't have any raised hands at this time. I'm not sure if you're wondering whether the public are into that comment, but at this time, I'm not. Okay. So, just to also highlight the motion of what we're asking for. After a lot of consultation with our city attorney's office, the purview of this commission doesn't actually have the authority to make kind of the regulatory choice to give us the encumbrance agreement. We still do need to go through the license committee and ultimately the city council, but knowing those two bodies, we would really appreciate your consideration for our motion and your support as we pursue this encumbrance of the parking lot. Okay, so I, so let me see if I have this right here. So the vote would be that the commission recommend to the license committee and city council a temporary approval of the main Winooski lot as a staging area, right? During Main Street, Gray Street Construction via the long-term encumbrance permit and licensing agreement. This would be for a cost of 211.20. Yeah, you can stop at the period as the actual action. Okay. All right. So do we have a vote on staff's recommendation? Maddie is indicating that there's an official motion at the end or on page two. Oh, right. There it is. So you can, you can staff's language. Okay. All right. So can we have a vote on the commission to approve and recommend that the city council approve and authorize a long-term encumbrance permit for use of the so-called jail lot as, I'm sorry, as a staging area for the duration of the Main Street, Gray Streets Project as described and depicted herein and to further authorize the mayor to execute a license agreement with the occupant outlining the terms of said encumbrance subject to review by the city attorney's office. Yes, I have a vote. 100 people. Point of clarification. Who is the occupant? Is it a single contractor or like, right? Like, how does that work? It will be the city's selected contractor as they will hold the insurance and the requirements that are within the encumbrance agreement about fencing and condition and care of the lot. All right. Thank you. Good question. We have a motion. I'll second that motion. Take to a vote. All in favor say aye. Aye. Aye for myself. The motion passes. Great. I want one last parting comment if Sharon is still on the phone as the contractor exits the parking lot, they are resurfacing it and replacing its entire surface. She's on YouTube, right? Yeah, which is a large public benefit. Okay, thank you. All right, and now we move on to director's report. So, Chapin had submitted to the commission and the director's report, but I just have some things to add to that and I think it's important commission if they're interested to participate in further conversations about the parkway. So, as you may be aware, this initial phase of construction continues, you can see it out here. Lakeside Avenue is closed, but the contractor has a number of teams working on this project at any given time and they're transitioning from working in the south end on Flynn Avenue to now beginning to work on Pine Street. And so, just like Flynn Avenue, we're trying to establish relationships with Butters so they know and understand how this thing's gonna progress and to mitigate as much as possible the impacts of that construction activity. So, tomorrow night, there is a meeting here from six to eight. All members of the commission are welcome. We've given invites to members of council in this ward. So, if you wanna participate, you're welcome to do that, but our goal is to establish that relationship with the Butters, hear their concerns, express kind of what our schedule is and how we're sequencing the work. And our contractor's gonna be there and I will be at the meeting as well, representing the city. So, I'm hopeful that we can mitigate as much of the impacts of construction as possible. This is gonna move very fast, so you should expect within the next week or two, contractor transitioning to beginning to work on shared use of path on the west side of Pine Street itself, starting on the north end, working south. Along with that, they'll be doing drainage improvements and then transitioning to other elements of it, but for now, those are kind of the front end things that will occur. As they're doing this shared use path redevelopment, there are still rail crossings in the driveways that are on that western edge. Contractors communicated to us that they will not take the entire rail crossing section out in a driveway in obstructed driveways. They're gonna cut midsection and take one piece of that rail section out at a time so it allows continued access to driveways. So those are the details of kind of how we're going to mitigate those impacts as an example. Other things that we were talking about is the idea of, it's an active pedestrian corridor. The shared use path is really the first thing that they're really gonna be developed. And we're looking at two pavement courses for the shared use path to allow space for pedestrians to be shifted or moved to during certain phases of construction, while also making it available to the contractor to move up and down the corridor without being in the road obstructing along. And you can hear more of this tomorrow night, but the idea is that they have the least impact during peak hour, both inbound and outbound in the morning and afternoon, while being active during the middle of the day. You might have, you probably will, if you may get to see the news report of an interview I had this morning with the WCAX explaining some of these elements of those things as well. So a lot's going on with the parkway, but things are progressing very fast. And as I've noted before, this project is anticipated to be generally complete by the end of this construction season, all things working with us with punchless items in the spring, the subsequent spring. That's a lot. That's a lot. But you can hear more tomorrow night if you wanna be part of it. All right, just a clarifying question. So things are moving rapidly. What's the timeline on this as far as impacting the start of school at Champlain? The start of the school year there. So right now, as I understand it, there's a traffic detour, pedestrian detour that goes around the northern edge of the BCDC parcel to walk around it. The who? What's it be? The city-owned parcel that is the Benson area. Okay, oh, okay, yep. Our belief is that we will have Lakeside Avenue complete within the next month, so that we will hopefully be complete with that work and restore traffic back to its normal circulation on Lakeside Avenue and have less impact on Sears Lane for kids going to school. Okay. So we're pushing hard to keep that schedule moving forward. We've had some hangups with some of the water resource work that had to be done a number of times, particularly because of choice of materials and agreement for a water resource team. But it's making significant progress. You can see out here all the utility work. Is WSP communicating with school when they do their weekly outreaches? I can't speak to that. I would assume it. I imagine as we reach into this part of the construction, WSP was the outreach consultant on the roundabout, had the ability and executed very well outreach with the school's principal when we had impactful pieces of traffic control detours. So that is something that we can move towards as school opens. Yeah, I mean, to date, our effect has not been to the south largely without any impact to Sears Lane. And until we started doing this work in Linksett Avenue, then we had this detour. So at that time, obviously school wasn't open. So it wasn't as large a concern, but certainly as school reopens, that walking corridor at Sears Lane is an important piece of that. And we will definitely engage in making sure they know and are aware of what we're doing and how we're managing and mitigating that. Right. Kids take the GMT bus to Center City for the Y or other activities. And the school newsletters, the welcome newsletters to new students will generally go out mid-August orientation. So that kind of communication being in advance of it before you have, I don't know, how many kids are there, 300 kids coming in and parents in a panic? Yeah, we have worked very hard to communicate to the public what's going on through the project website, having people sign up, but there are weekly updates to the project. And because the contractor is so aggressive in their work, it is a serious challenge for both WSP and the city staff to kind of contain that work effort to mitigate those impacts to the public. So we're trying to find the right balance between allowing this thing to progress in a very effective, efficient way while not having it being totally disrupted to the public that's in the vicinity of it. And because there's so many different crews working, there's a lot of focus in different areas, to be honest, and how we manage and control that. Thank you. Back to my earlier point about our most vulnerable. When we think about and build and engage for our most vulnerable, we all are served. Yeah, so a perfect example of that. I think Laura probably will follow this in her project as well, is you have your best laid plan, you start and you see how people receive that plan and how it works or doesn't work. And you have to be very mindful of making modifications as you encounter new challenges and new problems that you didn't originally think of. As an example of this detour for Lakeside Avenue, people are accessing the VA and Social Security. We have variable message boards, we have, we talk to the landlord, so on and so forth, but people who have appointments, who may only go there once a month or once a quarter or once a year, aren't aware of that. So they see the variable message board, we added more signs, in other words, we put chloroplast signs like breadcrumbs, this is where you go to Social Security, this is where you go to VA, and the first few days people were very confused, asking questions where to go and talking to the flaggers, now that additional signage, it's helped to kind of get people where they need to go without feeling completely lost. You start changing people's patterns up, they have a really hard time. I have a pediatrician appointment for my kid tomorrow at Lakeside and I was like, I don't know how to get there. I know, because I bike, but I'm gonna drive tomorrow. Yeah. So it's tough when you were so disruptive and so all over the place. I'll report back on the signage. I'll be texting you from the doctor's agreement. It's great. You can give us our comments and we'll adapt and adjust, because that's what we have to do. Secret fixing. Yeah, thank you. Any other comments on this? Ooh, yeah, just to clarify, where's the corridor that's finishing this construction season? Where's the South Point and North End Point? Yeah, so this phase, Southernmost is the intersection of Home Ave and the Parkway and the Northernmost is to Kilburn Street itself on Point. Yeah, that's exciting. Yeah, quite a ways on the, whatever, or the side. Yeah. That's all I had. Okay. Could we just ask for any more details on the, the sewer main replacement? I saw the updates. They look, sorry. Rob knows more than I do, but my understanding is. Yeah. I appreciate the commitment. The bypass line is an operation in no model. I have to move the tanker trucks. Yeah, the water resources team mobilized immediately upon learning about the break on July 12th. I think everyone here has gotten the updates. I know you can't look at every piece of minutia, but within 24 hours, tanker trucks were running 24 seven to pump and haul half of that broken lines waste over to North Plant for sole treatment. And within 48 hours, the second contractor was mobilizing to build a temporary sewer line, a bypass force main pump from the interceptor point, which is an existing grit chamber on that sewer line over to North Plant. That's a mile long of above ground sewer, which required a quick private easement, working with a lot of different property owners, going across driveways, crossings, and luckily a large stretch that was relatively unencumbered by houses, but it was a really dramatic, I think effort and turnaround by the water resources team. And as of yesterday at about 11 a.m., they were able to activate that temporary force main to pull 100% of the flows from the broken line, reroute those flows to North Plant. Everything's being treated. Upon our last check in today, everything's going as expected. The real tests for that line will come when we get some kind of anomalous rain events, which are always a dramatic factor for our system, which is really at this point, what's triggering any CSOs that do go off. This year, we've only had two. But for this line that I think everybody's most interested in, the kind of high-intensity rain events are really gonna be the main and maybe hopefully only vulnerability for the line. Tomorrow they're gonna be dye testing, non-toxic dye from the other side of the river. Last week they did it from the side of the river where North Plant is. Tomorrow they're doing it from the other side of the river, they're gonna introduce dye into the system to help figure out if there are any other breaks they can potentially notice from the other side of that crossing. They have some good intel as to where the potential break is, but what they need to really figure out is are there multiple breaks? Is there a dramatically bigger break than the one that they potentially know about? And then they're still waiting kind of a go from a dive team to get underwater to take a look at the pipe, which right now is residing on the fact that the water levels haven't been safe or clear enough. To do that, interesting to note and we like to point this out just so the public understands how I think proactive the water resources team has been in maintaining this line. We did have a dive inspection in June of 2023, which is part of a periodic onsite in river inspection of this pipe that crosses under the river and there were no issues at the time. So we still expect that from either scouring or some heavy debris running into this kind of sewer riverbed pipe that that was the factor that likely damaged the pipe. So basically short term, the temporary sewer is active. Short term, there's another dye test tomorrow. Medium term, they want to inspect the pipe and then long term, they're looking at all options right now that could be on the table from short term repairs, simple sleeves on the pipe to potentially long term repairs that could make a more climate resilient system whether that's directionally drilling that pipe under the river as they did on the other section of pipe back in 2006 when the earlier break on the different part of that line happened. It's all a matter right now of understanding the feasibility, the permitting and regulatory conditions that would be required as well as right now working through the state and FEMA process to make sure all available disaster funds are attached to the project so that local rate and taxpayers don't have to bear the burden of what's the significant cost right now. And there's a meeting I guess convened on Monday at one o'clock to be briefed on the process for public assistance with FEMA. In addition, one of the FEMA representatives contacted Lee Perry as the acting director in chief and Zabson's trying to establish a working relationship with the department. So there's ongoing conversations to establish a protocol and communication and how to make sure that what are financial liabilities that we're assuming today are gonna be reimbursable in some form. Right, well still trying to deal with everything. Yes, we still have to deal with it in some form regardless of that support so, but if there's opportunity for assistance and support from FEMA we should be pursuing that as much as we can. Thank you. So then about that, you said June 2023, there was a dive to inspect the sewer right there and there were no findings that failure was imminent or like this all came from one event men like whatever happened or what. Well the expert, so from my limited understanding on the June 2023 report there were absolutely no significant findings that would have led anyone to believe that there was a consequence of failure and right now the full expectation and this is before getting eyes on the pipe itself which is ultimately gonna be the most important piece of intel but before that the assumption right now is because of the dramatic river flows, the speed and the introduction of all the debris that was coming upstream down to the river that because this pipe is laid at the, probably right on the river bed that either there was heavy scouring kind of leading to erosion under the pipe and potential kind of introduction of movement to the pipe or debris that hit the pipe. It's very likely that the events, all the rain and flooding that we had is the only factor that's led to the damage to this pipe. There is another section of pipe that runs under the river that back in 2006 as I understand it was directionally drilled at, was it 20 feet or am I making that up? A 20 feet under the river bed which clearly protected it from the potential introduction of debris and scouring that this other line is, we're assuming right now is what's triggered that. Ha. So that experience from that first line I think was triggered this process that Megan's team had previous to this system failure is all the verification and checking and testing to see that the system wasn't at risk in any form. This is very proactively protecting the system as much as reasonably possible, but who would predict that this type of failure would occur given that we were just done an inspection and seeing that everything was in place properly? Yeah, a lot of possibilities there, but I mean there's like pipes and cables that cross entire oceans right on the floor, like that like, yeah, it's the worrisome, my nature I guess. Rob's point is correct though until we know the exact mechanism failure we're only assuming at this stage and divers can't go to that site as it stands today. Commissioner of communications. So director Spencer has been a fierce advocate of bringing bike share back to the community. I think that's great. I really appreciate that support. I just wanna make sure that the department has a plan to sort of communicate with the public in some way about the bike share. It just seems like there's a lot of confusion around what's happening. I understand the bikes sort of came very quickly and nobody really had time to make a plan for communication, right? And so yeah, just sort of wanting to make sure that that will happen at some point. Cause yeah, bikes are ending up like on people's lawns and then driveways and that's sort of, that's a little bit of the intent, right? Is that they can be left at destinations and origins, which is important, but yeah, just sort of like when they're left in the middle of a sidewalk that's blocking access, right? Like what does one as a member of the public do about that? Cause the bikes, if you try to move them, they will alarm at you and they're really heavy and they're hard to move. So just sort of making sure, you know, obviously the city is one partner in that, but as the partner that has a big reach, the most reach I would say, sort of making sure that that is communicated somehow. And then with all the construction that's happening, right? It's awesome. I'm thinking about route seven specifically, right? Engineer Bald, when you talked about when changing people's habits or something is really hard. I'm thinking about Willard Street and how there are no stripes at the no parking here to corner on a couple sections of South Willard. People are getting told like crazy because the stripes that they're used to were not there, the signs are, right? The no parking here to corner signs are, but the stripes are not there. So yeah, I don't know like the timeline of sort of that project and if there's anything that can be done about that, but just sort of being cognizant of like that's a change that people are not used to. It's a change in their habits when they're parking, stay at the, yeah, it's a change in their habits for people who park there regularly. You see people getting ticketed or towed or anything like that. Okay, we can follow up with our parking enforcement crew. Yeah. You can also follow up the state terms of what their schedule is with striping. Yeah. And acknowledging that problem. Okay. Yeah, because I mean, the signs are there, right? You can see them, they're tall, but yeah, in terms of just like the striping on the road, I know it's temporary because they haven't, you know, they haven't done the top layer yet. It's understandable, but it's a change for people who use that roadway. So just, yeah, something to be aware of. And then yeah, you know, speaking of that project, it seems like the top layer of North Manuski is done. When can we expect that new striping configuration with the bike lane and stuff, any ideas? I don't know the answer to that. Okay. I don't have to follow up, but I think the story is managing it with the state. We did hear, I think, tentatively today that it could be as early as next week. I think things have slipped, whether it's been dramatically different every day. Totally. But I checked in with Norm Steen, because we're getting the same questions kind of on the public communication side, and I was told optimistically it could be next week. Okay. Cool. Yeah, that one was just something I'm excited about. Okay, cool. Thank you. That's all I have. Commissioner Barr. Thanks. I echo Commissioner Fox's comments about the bike share. I saw a few ads and I was like, hey, when's the launch gonna be? And then I understood that it's just a soft launch right now, and that's why it, but that creates almost more confusion for people that don't know what it's about. So I dug through, I found some information, I was trying to share it as best I can. I've used the system. I like it, it's expensive, but I like it. So I look forward to more communication about that. The one comment that I had, and we kind of touched upon it earlier, was about Chase Street and the head of Chase Street, and I saw that they just painted the lines again in the tan area that goes out. It's a little less than it was before, which I understand, but cars are still going over it. There's still nothing there blocking them. And as I said, I drive around it. My wife always asks, what are you doing? I'm following the lines. Is there any chance that there's gonna be a flower pot put in there? I'm assuming it'll be all part of the Chase Street. Okay. Traffic coming, we'll just have to confirm it, but to make sure that it's being done, either it's a rally team or a contractor, as I said. I can build a box and put it out there. Like the old flower boxes. I don't think you need to do that. Thanks, thanks. All right, that's all I have. Commissioner Hogan. Thank you. Keep the box. Plan and background, if it's a couple more years, I think it's interesting to wait in. I seem to recall that there's a plan to refresh the Park Burlington website at some point, is that right? Yeah, I think I can share as much background as possible right now, which is there was an agreement back in about 2015 between the city and the Burlington Business Association to kind of co-brand and co-manage public-facing parking communications that, and so that entailed the social media, Park Burlington accounts, as well as parkburlington.com and with parkburlington.com came what I think is a very handy, useful public parking map. That relationship or the agreement expired as of about a year or so ago. So a couple things that are being worked on on that front. Number one, overall, the city website is looking for, there's gonna be a transition and a refresh of what seems like a pretty significant reinvestment in the city websites. We're excited about that coming within the next maybe 12 to 18 months. With that said, I think internally, we are looking to make a stronger push to integrate all of, as many of our communications as we can on the Burlington BT site, especially with this reinvestment in the infrastructure that's coming up on our web infrastructure. So with all that said, the parkburlington.com brand and website and landing page is still a pretty important piece of social infrastructure. So Jeff, myself and the BBA are actually meeting on Friday to kind of close down the official relationship, though we're always still, I think, pretty closely in touch with the BBA on parking, and then we're gonna figure out what to do with that landing page, which is very likely going to have what is now a refreshed map that we've made in-house using most of the data that came from the original map as well as some of the data that Tech Services has maintained on GIS infrastructure. So we want that to be a landing page that can redirect people kind of quickly and proactively to the main things people kind of want to know about parking. Where can they park? How much does parking cost? Info about Park Mobile, but basically we want to get back on BurlingtonBT.gov. For this reason, this is a pretty interesting thing that our IT director shared with us, which is when people search for information about July 3rd, they come to the city website and they can't find anything. There's this whole other website that the city manages for July 3rd, and we've taken that to heart when it comes to parking. So what we're trying to do is reintegrate, but we don't want to lose the brand, so we're still, Jeff and I are still kind of putting our heads together to strategize on the best approach with the idea of using the BurlingtonBT infrastructure as the main place where we're gonna have people ready to update, make sure it's a refreshed site, a useful site, knowing that the Park Burlington brand is still an important brand and the landing page is good social infrastructure, but I think more to come. However, there'll be some short-term reconfiguration of that site with the new map and hopefully routing people in helpful ways, but I'm certain we'll take feedback if folks are finding other feedback they want to share about how that's used and how things are promoted. Great, thank you for that update. We'll look forward to further developments there. Something to sort of emphasize and keep in mind as those conversations about are all of the temporary parking restrictions that we've been speaking to in today, tonight and recent beatings to support the Main Street Great Streets project and somehow, I don't know what that, looks like from the communication of where can I park perspective, but in the, as you're talking about infrastructure and how this map can be kept up to date and maintained to make sure that's the thing and it's not two years ago's list of city service parking lots that it's got the latest that are applicable for. Yes, that is certainly part of the plan. It's both in collaboration with BBA, Business and Workforce Development's Office, which is the former Trestree Marketplace and this group, all of that working, all of that working in collaboration. Yes sir. Every mic. Repeat for the mic. So yes, part of the outreach strategy for mitigating construction impacts and telling people where parking is, is using the Park Mobile or Park Burlington website and updating the map for both the temporary parking as well as highlighting the subsidized parking. So I assume the project website will complement the parking website. Yes, yeah. Lincoln connect to it, but as Rob indicated, it's stuff managing all these in different locations. It would be better when we can be succinctly under one URL. Great. Well, let us, for me, know if you want people to get eyes on things or get feedback on as they come online. And yeah, let's say I would congratulate and thank our new commission chair, Peggy and vice chair, Chris, for their willingness to step into those roles. That's all. Thank you, Chair Harvey. Commissioner Mutano. Hey there. I feel like we talked a lot about the paint and everything that's on the roads. But I think public works is just as important, right? The actual road itself, right? The means of conveying people safely from one point to another. And I still know a lot of people talking about potholes. And the one I had mentioned on Lower Church Street that first block below Main Street, it's a deep pothole. Like, it's dangerous, especially for people that are on bicycles. If you're driving, it could be anything from inconvenience to an actual hazard. So I hope that we could keep fixing these obvious, like, deep potholes. So that's one comment that I failed to share with the commission. And I think I could probably give a little bit of a deeper dive on that if you'd like. All right. So one of the things that the Texas Air Force team struggling managing the roadway surfaces is obviously, you know, there are arterial roads, I think in generally good shape. There are some areas where we've had some patching going on, like glider scale patching example. You probably saw Batter Street got milled, dealing with the rutting and the peeling of asphalt that was in that travel lane itself. That's a big boom for trying to fix and solve those problems. That's the approved list as it exists within this contract. But we are working and we were leading up to the development of the capital budget where we sought to have additional money towards patching. Unfortunately, patching, these large scale patching is really kind of a band aid to real long-term solutions in terms of getting the roadway surface back to its working condition. Our intent with this large scale patching is to keep these streets serviceable through the winter and to spring until we can get to the street to have it fully redeveloped with the hope that at some point we'll find a funding solution that makes it a fully sustainable system. But as it is, we are very surgically trying to pick and choose where that patching investment occurs to limit the amount of trouble that we'll have come late winter or early spring. And we are actually at this stage preparing communication to council that will go on early August to seek their authority to use the additional funds of the half cent that we've talked about through Laura's sound management financial management of the funds within that street capital fund itself. There is a reserve balance that we keep for protecting against the unknowns that we're going to use in waiting for that opportunity for the perspective half cent that the council has approved. But that means that it's allowing us to do this patching work now. And yesterday actually three of us went out and we marked streets that were a big question mark. I marked streets that were a big question mark for our team to decide what we're going to patch and where we're going to patch. And there's a lot of streets that are in very poor shape outside of our arterial system that needs care and feeding. And we've got a lot of support from people who are walking and marking these things to thank us for being thoughtful about doing something because it's been 30, 40 years and nothing's happened. I lived there 20 years and nothing's happened. And so we're doing the best we can with the limited amount of funds we have. But a patching is not the best choice. And the more sustainable solution is we need more funds to be able to maintain these systems. But we recognize the burden the public has and taxpayer has on all the additional costs that go with developing a new high school. Can they afford it? Where's our capital money to be able to do all this? So we're making what we have available to us go as far as possible. And you'll see that effect very soon. With what's left of the current capital balance, are we talking most people seeing an improvement? Or just a handful of streets? So we did a full inventory of all the streets and identified there was a $450,000 need. And I think we're going to fall short of the full $450,000 worth of need. But we are going to go probably, I don't know, 260 maybe, 260,000 in patching. And the idea is that those streets that are kind of on the cusp of being redeveloped come spring will be less investment than, say, a street that has nothing on our near term to be repaired. So that will probably have 75% of the problem identified, fixed and repaired, within buying down the list. The highest and most important is the arterials, collectors, and then some are more active neighborhood streets. So it's not easy choices. But choices have to be made. And we're trying to move ahead with limiting the amount of challenges that the public encountered with potholes like you said. Yeah, I'd like to, I guess, applaud the prudent spending and everything. I'm actually doing these things and making them happen. But I feel like if it's only $450,000 and we fix the things that need to be fixed, right, I think getting that, yeah, is certainly important. It's just generally trying to keep the road serviceable through a winter season is the idea. So it takes $450,000 to come up? No, so just to be clear, $450,000 number is the inventory we expected that would be needed if we want to patch all the potholes that we identified. We are not going to be able to complete all that with the funds that are available to us now. We're going to complete a good portion of it and be mindful of how that money is being used in order of priority, highest and best use. Higher volume streets, less of volume streets. Less of volume streets to kind of get the tail end. There's going to be more investment in streets that are not on a, there's going to be more patching investment on those streets that are not, in a near term, full repair. There's going to be less investment on those streets that are potentially in the next year going to be repaired. Because we don't want to waste that investment. That make sense? Yep. All right, I have one last question there. I'm so sorry about all of this, right? What's the minimum size of these potholes that you identified and how many total? At least on our walk, I think I identified like four by four potholes that we're going to square, that we're going to be squared up and paved. Most of them are real long runs. There are segments of the road that you could be 150 feet of one lane that needs to be milled out and patched, because it's just so bad. And our crews can't go out there without asphalt and fill that type of hole. Because it's just pothole over, pothole over, over a very expanded period, open space. So this is why this larger scale patching makes the most sense. Small individual potholes can be filled by our crews. These larger things need to be milled and paved with a machine. Absolutely. Yep. Thank you. That's it. So just to beat the potholes a little bit more, you mentioned more funds to repair. Have you studied what the impact of heavy duty traffic on our roads does to our roads?  There are, there's recycling, right? Weekly recycling. There are at least four different trash haulers on my street.  And then the folks who have the lawn care services, so you have a very large pickup truck with a trailer. So what class vehicle is that? So maybe it's a medium duty. But I think just on my street, the impact, well, and then we have our sewer lines, so that aside, very active. But thinking about, when we talked earlier, whatever, last year about consolidated waste, if we're looking at or trying to measure the impact of heavy duty traffic on our roads, is that part of this equation when we look at what is it cost? Yeah, we know and understand that commercial traffic has a 10-fold impact on the condition of the road versus a car. We know that. That's why you see the significant reinvestment in arterios because you're seeing so much commercial traffic on those arterios. Those streets, the deterioration accelerates because of that. Part of the equation here is to think about how streets are originally developed and what kind of structural sub-baser was gravel versus clay or silt. A lot of these roads were built well before the thought of heavy commercial traffic that we see today. And there's no way the city could afford to take out full hog out box cut down at least 18 inches to develop a structural soil to make it a longer term sustainable roadway. So what you have is you have poor structural soil underneath, and you're trying to pave and keep it operational. Therefore, the cycle of that street repair is much shorter than if you had, say, a main street where the state came in and did four feet of gravel structural soil that goes all the way to frost. Well, that's going to last a lot longer than a street that was a horse and buggy street that never got anything beyond the existing soil condition with more asphalt. Before we look at not having four different trash hogs, I mean, if you could limit the amount of commercial traffic, then clearly the street's going to last longer, right? Right. There are ways that the city can also. Yeah, we can make conscious choices that limit that impact. Right. Yeah, and we have like this answer, right? I think there's been some conversation that passed about that, and I think some opposing direction to that. Right, right. But I think it's all part of all the data points that need to go to. Certainly, if people reflect on that, that is a consideration that needs to be had a part of that conversation. Yep. Yep. This is a choir here, I think. Yep. And then finally, just staffing. Where are we with staffing? How short staffed are we? Or is it that the storm and folks being pulled into sort of different more urgent situations than the current maintenance right now? Well, I can't give you the exact numbers because I don't know. Right away is the one that struggles the most. I think it ties back to this whole thing of operating recycling program and how that has challenged keeping people within that team and the turnover that it creates. Something that's positive worth noting is public works not just respond to our own challenges after the storm event. It also went to various communities when the state of Vermont, Barrie, I think, was on and a few others around, you may know. I think I've forgotten everything in 6-2-1 as well. Yeah, so yeah. So anyways, our teams, a few people have been out on the road operating sweepers, helping other communities. And so it's been taken away from some of our work. But I think it's important to be good neighbors to other communities. I think Chapin was very happy with supporting other communities. And they were very grateful and appreciative. So I think Lee's team does a good job. I think that's important to broadcast a little bit more. I think I read something about having some staff move out to help with some recovery. I think this is really important to show that Burlington is standing up and helping out neighboring communities. I know Barrie was one of those, but I forgot the other community. Yeah, we did have that prepared. We got a little sidetracked staying more focused on what we were responding to once July 12th. And Chapin and I actually, before we left, did talk about making sure the public was aware of how we stretched ourselves around the state with a couple of these activities more tried to outline. So that is certainly how we were able. I think we were proud to do that. And then we got kind of internally focused. And if I recall, we actually had a full-back some assistance we were giving because we needed a pump that was going to go out to a different community. We needed some of our resource staff to stay in town as we were kind of getting prepared to lend people out. So definitely something that we literally just talked about and wanted to make sure the public's aware of. Because we were pretty proud to do that. Yeah, good job. Do you have the name of the other town? I'm forgetting. I know Barry was definitely one at Johnson Pumping ahead, but I don't know if that's completely accurate. And I thought they were pumping basements in Waterbury. Yes, they had trash pumps in their pumping places out. And they had sweepers out. Yeah, it was swept in Barry. And I think it may have been water distribution was out helping with some water supply systems, too. I think that's where we wound up pulling some folks back. But I could be wrong. Yeah, yes, it was Johnson. That's right. That was the other community, Johnson. Thank you. That's all. That's all I have. All right, we have our next meeting, September 20. We're all off for August. It's like the whole month. Everyone just take off. There's going to be no rain event. There's going to be no cyanobacteria. Nothing. It's going to be sunshine. I miss you guys. Like a motion to adjourn. Second. Any, what do you ask? All in favor? You would ask if there's any discussion on the motion. Oh, any discussion on the motion. Generally safe for this one. All in favor? Aye. OK, meeting adjourned at 8. 36. 8.36. Thank you. Great, thank you. All right, I've got to work on my game here. So, you did really well. Yes, that's good. You want to keep that with the right behavior? Yeah. You want me to hold it? If you want it, you can have it. I just want this person. I know, OK. I just want to bring it with me. I'll keep it. I'll keep it. Please share it with me. All right. So if you need it, when do you need it? Women's game, 9 o'clock. Yeah. US versus Netherlands. I know. You have that in mind, didn't you? I do. I know. It's all of it. What do you remind us of? BD. I know. That's what I realized. I was like, oh, I've got to take that one, not that one. Wait, you could cut through that. BD to get to Lakeside. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Well, I don't know where your appointment is necessarily in the attendance, but there is a dividing line within that parking lot that some people go using the Electric Avenue signal. Well, others use the Sears. So yeah, you can certainly walk me through this site. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. I just have to, like, bike home from work to get the kid in the car. So I was going to go. Yeah, it's Lakeside Pediatrics, so it's in the first. Yeah, so you probably want to go through Sears Lane, I think, because there's like a barrier just beyond the VA social security. You're riding bikes. You're not concerned. Use your experience. His experience. Sparrow. Do you have a GoPro?