What's going on everybody welcome back to another draw preview and it's the big one Wimbledon 2021 We didn't have it last year, but we have it in 2021 and I'm very excited for this one Let's go through the women's draw now because there are some big names that are playing in this one obviously It's a grand slam tournament, but some massive names have pulled out over the last couple of days Let's go see the withdrawal list to have nine players that are out of Wimbledon for 2021 Jennifer Brady the Australian open finalist She's not playing. Lipkins is out. Gasparian is out as well Simone hell of the defending champion She is out with a calf injury that also forced her to withdraw from the French open So she's not going to be playing at Wimbledon in 2021 and Naomi Osaka also not playing at Wimbledon 2021 pulling out to have some time to herself as she did at the French open Strick of a she's also pulled out Wong is pulled out Yastremsk is also not playing and Zhang is also not playing Wimbledon 2021 All right Let's start at the top of the draw here and there are 32 seeds at a grand slam and at Wimbledon and the number one Seed Ash Barty she takes on Suarez Navarro on the first round who's coming in with a protected ranking winner of that match We'll play either Blinkova or Babos in the second round Then we've got the qualifier Govitt Sova versus another protected ranking player Coco van der Wey winner of that match takes on either Cinnier Kova or the number 27 seed conter in the second round then we have the number 17 seed Burton she takes on Kostjak in the first round winner of that match takes on either Sevastova or Diaz in the second round then we got another player with a protected ranking Peckovich she takes on Paulini in the first round winner of that match takes on either 1,000 or the number 14 seed and French open champion cry Jecova in the second round players I'm watching out for in this part of the draw Ash Barty obviously the world number one We're gonna keep an eye on her also keeping an eye on cry Jecova because she did just win the French open Very interested to see how she does back up on the grass courts and how she can convert a game and also looking at Joe Conter as well because being in front of the British fans usually give the UK players a boost so very interested to see our Conter does with the crowds at Wimbledon going to the second part of the draw now We've got the number 12 seed as a renka. She plays Koslova in the first round winner of that match takes on either Castella Or the wild card Murray Shiran in the second round then we got another British wild card Radu can you versus a qualifier the Achenco winner of that match takes on either Vondra Soba or the number 24 seed Contovate and that is a great first-round matchup Circle that one is one to watch then we got the number 31 seed Kazekina she versus Teague in the first round winner of that match takes on either Fernandez or Osta Panko in the second round then we got another qualifier Minnan versus Tom Lanovich winner of that match takes on another First-round banger Cornei versus the number five seed on Drescu That is a tough tough match for Bianca on Drescu and you can see their possible fourth round Meaning between on Drescu and as a renka a champ versus champ battle with the players I'm watching out for I'm watching out For obviously on Drescu Hopefully she can play well and get through that first couple of rounds and see a couple of rounds of Wimbledon Because her game is so big and so hard-hitting very Serena-esque I think she can do very well at Wimbledon in her career as a renka obviously We're gonna keep an eye on her as well at a really good 2020 and has the game to play on grass as well So want to see how she does and also very interested to see how Contovate does because Contovate has played really well this week on the grass courts and seems to like play on grass So very interested to see how she does in this part of the draw as well Remember this part of the draw will play Ash Barty's part of the draw in the quarter finals So we might have a potential meet-up between Barty and on Drescu if we're going by the top seeds Which is an absolute fire match-up champ versus champ or we could have Barty versus as a renka because as a renka of course Is a Grand Slam champion for the world number one So we could have a battle of the number ones in the quarter final as well Very excited to see either of those match-ups going to the third part of the draw now and we've got the number three Seeds Federlina she takes on at Van Udbank in the first round winner that match takes on either Lynette When it's a moba in the second round then we've got the qualifier Sharenko versus puttenseba in the first round winner That's going to play a Spaniard in the second round because we've got Bolsova versus the number 30 seed Bedossa who are going at it in the first round then we have the number 19 seed Mukova versus Zhang winner of that match takes on either Taikman or Georgie in the second round then we got Christina Pliskova versus Coveditch winner of that match takes on either Bogdan or the number 16 seed Pavlechenkova in the second round so the players I'm looking out for We've got to keep it on the third seed Federlina she actually made the semi-finals of Wimbledon in 2019 lost to Halop in the end So she does like playing on the grass courts also Pavlechenkova What can she bring after making her first grand slam final back at the French open a couple weeks ago? What can she bring on the grass courts and also Bedossa? We know that she played great on the clay courts over this year But how can she convert her game onto the grass courts and see what she can do at Wimbledon this year rounding out the top half The draw now we've got the number nine seed Benchage She versus Juven in the first round winner of that match is going to play a qualifier in the next round Because we've got Perez versus Boral who are two qualifiers going at it in the first round Then we've got a protected ranking player Vesnina versus Treveson winner of that match takes on one of the first round match-ups That everyone's going to be talking about the wild card Jones versus the number 20 seed Goff circle that one Just want to watch because both players have really good stories Obviously we know the story of Goff because of Wimbledon two years ago But Jones as well she gets a wild card into this event And she was a really good story at the Australian Open and she'll be an even bigger story during the Wimbledon tournament Especially on the first couple of days really excited to see what she can do against Goff Then we've got the number 25 seed Kerber versus to Yanovich winner of that match takes on either Tormo or the qualifier Conju in the second round then we got Habino versus Perra winner of that match takes on either Sassnavic or the number six seed and the Queen of Wimbledon Serena Williams so straight away Obviously, we're going to be watching Williams She is going to be someone that we're probably going to watch every single match until she either wins the title or loses And she's made the last four finals at Wimbledon as well So don't forget that she loves playing here also keeping an eye on Goff Obviously, we know that two years ago Coco Goff really broke out at Wimbledon meeting Venus Williams I'll eventually losing to Hella and we could get a Goff versus Williams fourth round matchup Which those two have never played before so very excited to see that happen and then Belinda Benchich the number nine seed Interested to see how she does she's had an okay grass court season and with her big hitting the grass court suit her as well So who knows maybe she can make a run at Wimbledon this year as well Don't forget this part of the draw matches up with Svedolina's part of the draw as well So we could get a potential matchup between Svedolina and Serena Williams That's the most likely but then again Svedolina's part of the draws pretty wide open So you could get anyone in there But I'm thinking the most likely matchup if we're going off the rankings Serena Williams versus Svedolina in the quarter finals Don't forget this quarter of the draw takes on the quarter above which has Ash Barty in it So we could get a Barty versus Williams Semifinal of Wimbledon and that would be an awesome semifinal Ash Barty's variety Serena Williams power That could be a semifinal and it would be an absolute blockbuster going to the top of the bottom half now We've got the number eight seed Pliskova She takes on Zed and Shek in the first round circle that one is one to watch because Zed and Shek had a really good run at the French Open and Pliskova's form in 2021 has been very up and down So could be an upset winner that match takes on either Vekic or Potapova in the second round Then we have Lee versus Potoroska winner that match takes on either Martin Kober or the number 28 seed risk in the second round Then we've got the 22nd seed Pagula versus Garcia circle that one is one to watch as well winner of that match takes on either Wildcard Samson over or Canepi in the second round Then we've got the lucky loser Arne taking on Heather Watson another UK player that everyone should watch out for the winner That match takes on probably one of the best first-round matches in the women's draw Sloane Stevens former US Open champion versus the number 10 seed Hetra Gavitova a two-time former Wimbledon champion Champ versus champ first round circle that one is one to watch that will be fire plays to watch out for in this one Definitely got to watch out for Kovitava She is always going to be a threat at Wimbledon like I said former champion here twice It's playing pretty well on the grass this year as well got to keep an eye on Pliskova as well I don't expect much from her but again her game is suited to the grass So interested to see if she can maybe put some matches together And I'm also interested to see how Samson over does the Wildcard She won an WTA 500 event on grass a couple weeks ago So let's see if she can convert that form onto the main stage and at Wimbledon So keep an eye on her as one of the unseeded players in this part of the draw to watch next part of the draw Now we have the number 13 seed Merton. She takes on the Wildcard dart in the first round winner That match takes on either zoo or the protected ranking player Barthol in the second round Then we've got another wild card from Britain barrage taking on Davis winner that match takes on another American versus British matchup the qualifier swan versus the number 23 seed keys Then we got the number 29 seed Kudamatova versus Golubek winner that match takes on either her cog or Collins in the second round Then we got two Americans going at it with Bregel versus Mikhail winner that match takes on either the qualifier Wong or the number four seed Kennan in the second round So a lot of Americans in this part of the draw and we're definitely gonna keep an eye on Sophia Kennan Hasn't done really that much in 2021 was player of the year back in 2020 and really hasn't replicated that form So really interested to see how she can do on the grass courts this year always got to keep an eye on Elise Merton She's always a fourth round quarter finalist at slams and with her big serve The grass court should suit her game And I'm also interested to see how Madison Keys does because she's kind of on the comeback trail and again The big serve and the big groundstrokes should really suit Keys game and don't forget that this part of the draw takes on the part of The draw with Pliscova and Caviteva so potentially if we go by the rankings we could get a Kennan versus Pliscova matchup But more likely it would be a Kennan versus Caviteva matchup in the quarter finals and Kennan versus Caviteva We've seen that at the French open last year is a fire matchup very interested to see that But again, it all really depends on Sophia Kennan because she hasn't been in great form So we don't know if she's even gonna make the quarter finals. Alright, we're into the last quarter of the draw now We've got the number seven seed Sveontek She versus Shea in the first round circle that one is one to watch because that is a very tough matchup for the 2020 French Open champion Sveontek has won a junior Wimbledon before so she does like playing on the grass The winner of that match takes on either Buscova or Svon Arraba in the second round Then we've got Bagou versus the qualifier Voli Nets The winner of that takes on either Gracheva or the number 26 seed Martich in the second round Then we've got the number 21 seed Jabor taking on Pedersen in the first round winner of that match takes on either Buzzenescu or Venus Williams in the second round Then we've got Kuznetsova versus the qualifier Kirkov winner of that match takes on either Ferro or the number 11 seed Muga Ruther in the second round So the players I'm watching out for obviously Sveontek junior Wimbledon champion back in 2018 How can she play on the grass? We've seen her play on clay very good this year also on the hard court She's been pretty good this year as well But how can she play on the grass courts also Muga Ruther former champion here as well How will she play at Wimbledon this year and I'm looking out for Jabor as well Just won a title on grass a couple of weeks ago She is in some form and confident very interested to see how she does this year as well on the grass and the last part of the Draw here. We've got the number 15 seeds Sekari She takes on Russ in the first round winner of that match takes on either Rogers or Sam Stoza in the second round Then we have Doi versus the qualifier Lu Winner of that match takes on one of the biggest hitting matchups in the first round Legendovic versus the number 18 seed Rabakina huge hitting there big serving from both ladies a lot of aces in that one Expect that one to have a tiebreaker to then we've got the number 32 seed Alexandrova versus Sigmund winner of that match takes on a qualifier in the second round because two qualities are going at it with Serrano taking on Kellen scale then we've got another qualifier Laos versus the wildcard Bolter winner of that match takes on another qualifier Nikolescu taking on the number two seed Sabalenka in the first round So a lot of qualifiers in this part of the draw, but the players to watch out for Obviously Sabalenka number two seed helped out by the fact that Osaka and Halep are not playing so she gets the bottom half of the draw to herself She's got a really good draw as well watching out for her big serving big hitting her game is suited to the grass Also, Sekari How can she back up that French open semi-final that she made a couple of weeks ago and the number 18 seed Rabakina? I think Wimbledon is the place for her I think her game is exactly suited to the grass courts and I expected to do well at Wimbledon over her career And who knows maybe this year is the year that she really breaks out She did make the quarter-finals of the French open a couple of weeks ago She beats Serena Williams in that one and to be honest She has a pretty good draw and if she can serve well and hit that forehand for winners She could go deep in this tournament So watch out for Rabakina as well and don't forget this part of the draw takes on the Sviantec part of the draw Which means that we could get matchups between Sabalenka and Sviantec in the quarter-finals Or we could get a big hitting matchup between Sabalenka and Muga Ruta Which would be an awesome matchup big serving big hitting in that one And don't forget this quarter of the draw takes on the quarter above Meaning that we could get a matchup between Sabalenka and Kovitava Two big hitting players or even Sviantec versus Kovitava And that would be an absolute fire matchup But again the bottom half of the draw is very unpredictable Because there's a lot of players that are not in form And some players that are not that highly ranked that are in form So it could be anybody in the bottom half of the draw So there it is the draw for Wimbledon for the women's event Let me know down in the comments below Who's winning this event? It's so hard to predict it's so open So having a look at the draw now to see who is going to win this event And I did pick Serena Williams at the end of last year So you know what? I'm gonna stick with her I think Serena Williams is gonna win Wimbledon this year I think it's a great draw for her The dangerous players are down the bottom for her Players like Sviantec, Sabalenka And don't forget Osaka and Halepa out of the draw as well So that means Serena's got an even better road to the final And to the title And don't forget she has made the last four Wimbledon finals So I'm gonna go with Serena to win this one And break the record of Grand Slams for the women Again, let me know down in the comments below Who's winning Wimbledon this year? So Wimbledon 2021 is missing some players But it's still stacked with Serena, Sabalenka and Bardi


This episode of the podcast is supported by Audible. You can download and listen to the world's best storytelling. I use it all the time to and from work. You can listen to audiobooks, original series and more on their free app to get your free 30-day subscription, which includes a free book. Click on the link in our show notes and enjoy. Hey folks, welcome to the podcast. Today I had a great guy come in and speak to me, Dr. Viren Swamy, who is a professor of social psychology at Anglia Ruskin University in Cambridge. And we talked about paternal post-natal depression, depression amongst fathers and not often talked about so many fathers and men are going through this. It was eye-opening. So we had a deep conversation. We talked around all the issues, really powerful and I hope you enjoy it. Hey, it's Lewis. Welcome to the podcast. Enjoy our conversations anytime, anywhere. Cool, I'm alive. How are you doing? Good, I'm well. How are you? Good, thanks for coming. Did you find it okay? I got very, very lost. I don't think I've ever found it even with very clear instructions. I know, the Google Maps just doesn't work as well nowadays. It sent me to a different place. It sent me to a car park. Oh, unbelievable. Everyone always gets lost now. I've asked the same question to like the lost. It doesn't make me feel any better. I know. So, what's your background? What do you do? My official title is I am professor of social psychology at Anglia Ruskin University. What that simply means is that I am a researcher and a lecturer in social psychology. I study all kinds of things, everything from body image to why people voted Brexit. But one of the things I'm particularly interested in is what we call mental health literacy, which is essentially how non-scientists think about and their beliefs about mental illness. The kind of background here is that I became a dad about them just over two years ago now and after my son was born then, I struggled with my own mental health and that got me interested in the research that existed on postnatal depression, particularly in men. And there isn't much, is there? Well, there isn't very much at all. Although, I think what exists in terms of research knowledge is very different to what exists in the public realm. Obviously, yeah. So, in very simple terms, the public generally don't believe that postnatal depression affects men, whereas in my academics, we know it does. Interesting. I was speaking to a friend of mine to say I was having this podcast and she was like, what are you talking about?  I won't mention who she is, but she knows who she is. No, it's definitely a big problem.  I'm not sure what I was expecting. Lots of people ask me this question, like what did I expect before my son was born? I'm not sure I had any real expectations. I kind of went into it more or less blind. I think that was part of the problem really, that I kind of had no idea what to expect. So I kind of took each day as it came. And I think, to be honest, I think looking back, I think even if our son was born, I think I was probably already struggling. It's only had a lot of anxiety. Like during the pregnancy? Yeah, during my wife's pregnancy. Like a lot of anxiety is normal. Like lots of dads will worry about the future and money and all kinds of things. My anxiety kind of got to the point where I was at times, not all the time, but at times I think really struggling to understand what was happening. I would worry about leaving the house. I kind of almost treated my wife's pregnancy as if it didn't exist. And I treated it like she was just a completely everyday person with no pregnancy involved. Yeah, yeah. It's easy. Yeah, you're not really prepared so much. I've got two kids and my classic and my friends will laugh at me, but my classic line is always like, life's never gonna change. Like it's not gonna change.  And you don't really expect it to change or you don't want it to change and you don't want to let it change. I think it's both, isn't it? It's not wanting it to change and not also not expecting it to change. And obviously when it happens, change comes very, very quickly. I have this thing like it's really weird that the kind of setup in the UK is you have to give birth and you're told go home. It's all yours now, that's it. Yeah, yeah, just crack up everything. Yeah, that's essentially what happened with us. Because also we don't have, it was being to my colleague Maria just before. Back in the day, like we used to, the villages used to bring up kids. And now if you're in a city, you might have your parents nearby, you might not. I think you're lucky if you have your parents nearby. But most people are quite estranged and we don't have that kind of natural support network. No, it's true, you just like crack on and you're in the- I think part of the problem as well though is that society as a whole tells us that when your child arrives, this is gonna be a magical moment. It's gonna be this momentous moment and everything will be right. You'll understand instantly what everything is gonna be perfect. I remember the first time I held my son properly. He must have been a couple of minutes old at this point. I didn't really feel anything. It's a strange feeling looking back now. I remember there's a photo of me, someone took a photo of me holding my son for the first time and I look at that photo and I'm doing all the outwardly, I'm doing all the kind of things you'd expect me to do. I'm smiling, I'm looking at the camera. You'd think I was happy. Inwardly I felt completely numb. There was no feeling, there was no emotion. And it took me a long time to understand that that was a symptom in itself. That when you experience something like that, you'd hope to feel something but I wasn't really feeling anything. What's also interesting is that you have no idea that other dads probably are feeling exactly the same. Cause no one really talks about it. And I think it's very common. Cause again, with my kids as well, it's not like this sudden thunderbolt of like, oh my God, I can't love this kid as much as all of these things. So I think we definitely need to talk about it more. I'm assuming post-nation depression is researched or very well researched in mothers. Yeah. So there is a ton of research firstly showing that it exists and what we do about it and what the effects are and all kinds of things. So it's very, very well researched. And what are the symptoms if we're talking about mothers? So it is clinical classic depression. Sorry, major depression. Most people would be having an awareness of what depression is. So it's essentially a lack of persistent enjoyment of life or any kind of things that you enjoyed in the past typically associated with low self-esteem. Also commonly associated with low energy. Okay. So if it's diagnosed in the period after a birth, usually up to a year after the birth of a child, then we call it post-natal depression. So it's just depression. I don't mean just depression, but it's clinical depression following the birth of a child. Okay. And you said, so for a year, how long does it last for? Well, there is no cut off in that sense. If a person isn't treated can last for several years with men, what we see is often it ends up in, in sometimes not always, but sometimes ends in suicide. So it doesn't always mean that it just gets better over time or there is a clear cut off. And if it is prolonged, most therapists would consider it major depression again. It's an effect on the, on the baby with the mothers. So if the mother's depressed. Yeah. So if the mom's depressed, they look less likely to interact with their child in the first place. And for example, they're less likely to breastfeed or they breastfeed for shorter durations. They're also less likely to interact positively with their child playing, reading, that kind of thing. In the longer term, there's also an impact on the child outcomes. So the child is much more likely to develop behavioral and linguistic problems, particularly in late childhood. So a whole host of outcomes, negative outcomes, both in terms of the mother child attachment, but also in terms of the child itself. Is there a difference do you find between whether it's a boy or girl? Not in terms of the mom's symptoms. So the symptoms in terms of the mom's exactly the same. There is some research to suggest that boys, in particular boys who have a mom who is clinically depressed are more likely to develop behavioral problems in later life in particular. It's thought that because boys don't get the nourishment early in life, they're much more likely to replicate those difficulties, those mental health difficulties in later life. And they just, and they remember this from the first year? It's such a much that they remember they just haven't, I think one of the problems if the mom hasn't been given long-term care, for example, the child has impact the long-term as well. And boys for all kinds of different reasons, but social reasons in particular, it's not given the tools to ask for help. So the outcomes tend to kind of become more extreme in boys. And for mothers, I'm assuming there's a lot of like a care available, help available. Is it well-noticed? I know when we were having a kid, the nurse used to come and visit us in the flat and check how she was. Yeah, in the UK we certainly do. I mean, the whole tradition of midwifery, the tradition of health visiting is geared towards looking after mom. If, I mean, you kind of hit the nail on the head, I mean, the health visitor will ask questions of your wife that probably wouldn't have asked questions of you. I don't even think I had to be there. Exactly. In terms of both practical policies, so for example, the NHS at the moment have a policy of routinely screening all new moms for mental illness. They don't have a similar policy for men. And when do they do that? So is that during? During the anti-natal period.  And if it's deemed to be at risk, they will get follow-up care. And men don't get the same routine questioning. The NHS is now moving to a system where men whose partners have post-natal depression will get routine care. But it still means that men who have a history of mental illness, for example, will not be asked about their mental illness. Crazy. It's crazy. How come there's not been more research done? I think there has been quite a bit in terms of understanding, certainly, the female perspective or the mom's perspective. I think historically, one of the problems was that no one really thought that men could get post-natal depression. It kind of reflects what we still think in terms of public awareness of post-natal depression. How come? So, what they're kind of like, just man up, crack on, you didn't have the baby. I think one of the kind of big myths of post-natal depression is that it's caused by neurochemical changes. So, this idea that women who are pregnant will experience neurochemical changes, things like changes in testosterone, prolactin, estrogen, and the common idea is that men don't experience that, so they can't get post-natally depressed. In fact, recent research has suggested that men experience changes not just after birth, but even during the wife's pregnancy in terms of changes in testosterone, prolactin. So, all these neurochemical changes are happening in men as well. I think the other big myth is that everything that happens during pregnancy are kind of risk factors for... What would you mean? So, for example, if the mum has a complication during birth, that might place her at increased risk for depression. And obviously, men don't get pregnant, so they can't get post-natal depression. I think the kind of problem with that argument again, though, is that it kind of essentially treats the dad as a bystander. You're kind of taking him out of the family unit and you're saying anything that happens to the family unit doesn't affect him as an individual. Obviously, it does. It's a kind of very simple example. If the mum is struggling to breastfeed, the dad might feel like that says responsibility to try and help, but you may end up feeling like he can't do anything. No, it's true.  And if you're not using a bottle, it's just breastfeeding.  You're doing nothing, right? I mean, maybe cleaning a few nappies. If anything, yeah. And that's it. And then, obviously, depending on how long your wife chooses to breastfeed for, because it's their decision, mostly, you might not do anything for a year or so. But the general point, though, is that anything that acts as a stressor can trigger post-natal depression, whether it's mums or dads. And in that sense, there really isn't anything different in terms of the kind of risk factors and causes of post-natal depression. Anything that acts as a stressor. And obviously, some things will affect mums disproportionately, the fact that they might be more tired because they look doing more aftercare during the post-natal period. But all of these things also affect dads. The general line from researchers now is that there isn't a single cause of post-natal depression. It's called essentially what we call a multi-factorial etiology. All that simply means is that there are lots of causes and there can be lots of different causes. And in men, another classic example, something we've already touched on, which is the kind of discrepancy between what men expect and what the reality of childbirth is. Not just childbirth, but also the post-natal period. So whether fathers are actually prepared for life after the child's born. Yeah. Before we had our son, I don't think I ever saw a newborn. I don't think I'd ever seen one in real life, I mean. Like just held it and yeah. But women often do and they often have more experiences like that. Not saying that necessarily changes how you experience your own child being born, but still it means that they are often, they might be having more conversations or different conversations about childbirth, about post-natal and the post-natal period and so on. The other thing is men generally don't talk to other dads about post-natal period. I mean you don't say don't talk to, I don't, maybe this is just me, but I don't remember having a conversation with my dad about what it's going to be like. I definitely didn't. I definitely didn't.  But also I think if they can pair dads for, because you know, at the moment, you know there's a big stigma attached to dads who want to stay at home and look after their kids. There's a big stigma attached to dads who want to take longer paternity leave. You know, a friend of mine was able to take six months and he went to his boss and he was like, hey, I'm going to take six months and the guy was like, really? You sure you want to take six months?  And if at that particular moment in time you're struggling with your mental health, it's going to be difficult. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And one of the things that people often, not often but sometimes say about dads who are struggling with their mental health is that they're jealous of their partners or they're jealous that they've lost their partners to their child. I often find those kind of comments kind of patronizing. For me, when I was struggling, I never felt jealous of my wife. I wanted what she had with my son. I wanted to feel what she was feeling. And for me, as it kind of almost as an outsider looking at their relationship, it looked like the relationship that I wanted. At that point, I didn't feel anything. I was struggling. So every day was a kind of a battle to do the kind of basic things like wake up and brush my teeth. And in my head, I'd be constantly fighting these battles against this, the kind of what I call the depressed voice was talking to me and saying, you're an unfit parent or you're not good enough, you can't do this.  And do you think this is a combination of the hormonal changes and also just the big life change of having a kid and a child? I mean, you'll notice that there's these sleepless nights and it happens suddenly. There's almost like a plateau where everything is fine and then suddenly you have the child at home again and suddenly you're not sleeping. And a lot of dads might even go back to work after a couple of weeks. Oh, most do? Yeah, definitely.  Which all can be placed a huge strain on the dad. Some people say dads can't get postnatal depression. The kind of short answer is that all the risk factors are there. Everything that could trigger postnatal depression. Or if you want to put it differently, all the triggers that could trigger depression in the postnatal period are there for the dad. Yeah, a lot of people denying that it's the case. I think a lot of people still don't want to believe that it can affect men. I think, well, I think there are two reasons. I think one is that it feels quite transgressive in terms of what men are expected to be during the postnatal period. A lot of dads are told or sold this narrative that they have to toughen up, they have to be the rock of the family. This is the moment when they show that they can do everything, they can go to work and they can bring home an incoming, they can look after the child, they can do everything like this wonderful, superhuman individual. And I think any time a man then goes, I'm struggling here, I think a lot of people take it as an almost a kind of transgressive act in terms of his masculinity.  Yeah, no, it's 100%, 100%. It's interesting, when we had our first kids, a good friend of mine had theirs about two weeks before. The husband of my friend, obviously both really good friends, he was telling me about the story of the hallway dropped and the alarms went off and they got rushed into the emergency C section and stuff. And he was telling me a bit about how he was feeling and stuff. And then when we had, I had exactly the same experience, like the alarms went off and I'm like, ah, that's how my friend, what he experienced. And so because we'd spoken about it, I was like probably a lot calmer than I used to be. But that's kind of an outlier. Most of the time, if I'm speaking to my mates, guy mates, they're not really sharing stories about how difficult it was or the challenges. Women though, I mean, if I'm speaking to my girlfriends, they're much more, they share and they talk a lot more about it. I mean, this is a much more broader pattern of what's happening in this social life at the moment. Boys aren't taught how to, and boys and men aren't taught how to say, I'm struggling. Boys are essentially taught all the time that you have to strive for this version of masculinity where you're always tough, you're always robust. I think with parenthood that slightly changes a bit, I think there is a kind of version of positive masculinity where dads strive to be better human beings for their family. But I think overall masculinity and striving for the idealized version of masculinity where you're tough and robust and self-reliant, essentially means you're not given the space and the tools to be able to say, I'm struggling here. I think one of the big difficulties and I think this is certainly true of me is that when men start to struggle with their mental health, they normalize the behavior. They essentially say, I'm not dead. Therefore, everything must be okay. Essentially what that does is it says, all everything that's happening to me right now can be reframed as non-mental illness. I'm not depressed because I'm surviving. I'm doing everything I need to do, might be still going to work. For me, I would still be able to go to work and look like I was functioning. I might pop to the gym or do all the kind of things that you'd expect outwardly I would still be doing. And so that kind of validates this assumption that I can't be mentally ill because I'm still here. Yeah, I mean, it'd be interesting to know whether the study's been done is if it's changed over the years or it's always been here, it's just talked about more now and it's being more visible. I think there's much more openness now. There's certainly much more openness about men and you see this with celebrities about them talking about their mental illness and I think there's much more, there is much more, there are greater opportunities for men to talk about it. My worry is that a lot of the time this is happening with celebrities, the celebrities are given the space to talk about their mental illness, the common individual is very different. They might not have the resources, they might not have the skills, they might not have the support network to be able to do that. That's true. So until I think it filters down to be able to say I'm struggling but then the other big question is if you're a celebrity and you say, look I'm struggling with mental health, there'll be lots of people around to help you through that. I think one of the difficulties with a lot of men is I don't know where to get help. Once you say I'm struggling, what do you do next? Like where'd you get help from? And if you don't know, you're not going to get help. And this is kind of part of the problem as well that a lot of health professionals if they kind of believe and they buy into these myths that men can't get post-natal depression, they might miss the fact that a man is asking for help or doesn't know what he's doing or struggling with his mental illness. What I always find amazing is that health professionals, they should just be a focus on wanting to make people feel better. They're not a kind of dogma around what men can't get depressed or this doesn't really exist and there should just be the focus on making people feel better. So my ethos is the whole thing about post-natal depression should be about helping the family unit irrespective of which member of the family unit is struggling. If the dad's struggling, he needs care. If the mom's struggling, she needs care. If the child's struggling, she needs care. So I think part of the issue for me is that when you remove the dad and you essentially isolate him as a special case to make him immune from post-natal depression or not worthy of care, essentially what you're saying is the whole family unit doesn't require care. Somehow the family unit just needs to plod along until something changes. Presumably, if the dad's depressed, it's going to affect mom and babe.  Moms are about two and a half times more likely to get post-natal depression if the dad's depressed. Wow. Does it work the other way too? Yeah. So it's the same experience. So if a mom's post-natal depressed, the man's more likely to get depressed as well. One of the other things we know is that if the dad is struggling, there is a huge knock-on impact on the child as well.  You may not just have the headspace to do that. You may also respond to your child much more critically. So rather than focusing on the kind of loving and being there for your child, caring for your child, you might respond by being much more critical, self-critical. I remember there was a two-week period after my son was born, and every time I kind of held him, it felt like he was, he just started crying. And a lot of dads talk about the same thing where they kind of feel like their son or children are rejecting them at that early age. I mean, obviously they haven't got that kind of decision-making ability. So obviously it's a psychological thing. But I remember experiencing that and going, my son doesn't want me. And just kind of blaming myself the whole time. That's also somebody talked about before, like the preparation.  That's what they do.  But if you're not experienced it, again, it's just a whole new thing to deal with. How come men are so bad at asking for help? It's about masculinity. I think we're just not socialized to have these kinds of conversations. And this is an anomaly, I think. What we're doing now? Yeah, what we're doing now is a complete anomaly. I don't think we have often the space to have these kinds of conversations to say I'm struggling. I think a lot of the time when men ask for help, or even if they come close to asking for help, these kind of conversations are shut down, particularly by other men. Other men don't want to hear about your troubles. At least that was my experience. Especially with the other people who I might have asked for help. I don't think I ever felt comfortable asked. And with these, like, immediate family members or close friends? Family members and close friends. I don't think I would have ever said to them, I think part of that was I didn't know at that time that post-natal repression in men was a thing, so I kind of bought into the myth myself. But also having a conversation where you kind of go, I'm struggling and I don't know what to do is a really difficult conversation. It's almost, well, to use an old-fashioned term, it's emasculating. It feels like you're losing all sense of who you should be as an individual. And my response was to essentially become hyper-masculine in other forms. I'd spent a lot of time in the gym. I kind of overworked the point where I was kind of doing, I would sleep for a couple of hours a day and kind of go straight back to work. Well, yeah.  Do you feel like it's difficult to speak to your wife about it?  I never talked to her properly. And I think part of that was that I wanted to be the one who looked after the family, because I wasn't doing very much by this point. I'd kind of almost withdrawn from her so much and actually not just her, but my son as well, that I'd struggled to say I did anything at all as part of that family. And so to ask her for help felt completely shameful, admitting to myself that something was wrong in the first place, which I was hesitant to do, then also then saying to her that I need help was really difficult. At what point do you, obviously, because given the job you do and all the research, you're probably more tuned to it than others, at what point does someone realize actually I need help?  I don't think there is a perfect answer to that question, because I think every individual experience will be specific to how, for example, if you haven't got people who support you, you might not depend on other people. For example, there's lots of research to suggest that men don't necessarily want to talk to their close relatives, including their partners, about their mental illnesses, they're much more likely to talk, for example, to their barbers, someone who's a relative stranger. So there's a lot of effort at the moment to train barbers to be able to ask the right questions of men and then get them the help they need if it's necessary. Interesting. Yeah, because I guess it's kind of, it's perceived as a less threatening space almost, to be able to talk to someone who knows you well enough but not that well. But if you're a barber and you're trained to ask the right questions, you can pick up on it and you can get the men the help they need. For me, I think it took a very long time for me to even acknowledge that something was wrong. I think I'd kind of gone through, even at points where I was suicidal, I think I'd kind of still thought to myself, there's nothing wrong here. This is what all men go through when they just had a baby, which is ridiculous now to look back and think, to even think I thought that at the time. My wife essentially saved me, I think. Yeah. Well, I think for a start she didn't abandon me. Yeah. But then she, and this is, I mean this quite literally, she dragged me to the GP and said have a conversation with the GP please. Wow. And did you accept it at that moment? I think even then I thought I was fighting it. I didn't want to see the GP. I don't think I necessarily had the tools at that point to have a conversation about my mental health. So even then it was still a struggle but I think looking back, I'm really glad I did. And this was the first point at which a health professional had a conversation with me when we need to get you some serious help. Right. And how did she identify? Are there things to look out for if someone's in a similar position? So if you're a health professional, there are diagnostic tools you can use. Essentially they're kind of questionnaires that men are asked to fill in and they score a certain number of points they referred for care. Often GPs in particular who've maybe had a history of or had experience dealing with men who have had depression may just have a conversation with them and say you can get routine after care through in this borough, for example, through CAMHS and the Child and Adolescent Mental Health Services. So different routes into care but essentially having a conversation with a health professional is the starting point. You've got to do that. And how does, how can someone, I mean if they're in the same position as your wife, you know who they've obviously, there are things to look out for to identify if your husband or partner is going through the same thing. So I think the kind of common symptoms would be things like a loss of energy. So is your partner still experiencing and having fun doing the kind of things that they used to? That may even be just things like cooking or cleaning or maybe not cleaning, but cooking certainly or going out with their friends. Have they withdrawn socially? Are they still seeing their old friends? Are they still seeing people regularly? And are they having essentially what we would call social withdrawal which is essentially removing themselves from the family unit? Are they spending a lot of time on their own? Are they struggling to have conversations? Are they spending time with the child? Those kind of things. I think it can often be difficult because men aren't very, not all men, but most men don't have the right tools to be able to have these kinds of conversations. And it takes time to develop. And I think a lot of the time men react with psychological reactants. For example, if I said to you, let's have a conversation about your mental health right now, what you might do is shut down the conversation because you don't want to have that conversation. So I think placing or giving, developing skills and developing tools for men to be able to have those conversations when they require it is really important. I often worry that by the time they're postnatally oppressed or by the time they're depressed in general, it might already be too late. Right. And then the journey to recovery. So you went to the GP and I mean, obviously they asked the right questions and was that the thing that sent you on the path? Yeah, I often think that there's an expectation that once you're in care that there is a linear path to recovery. And often it isn't like that. So in my particular case, my GP referred me for psychological help which I received for I think six or seven months and I shifted from that to a parenting class. And is that immediate? So the GP says? In my case, it was serious enough. I think that they thought emergency care was necessary. It doesn't always happen. And obviously this also means that if we want men, I think asking for help is a very important thing. But then if you want to help men long-term, you also need to have a funded public health service which is able to help men long-term get them the care they need, whether it's short-term or long-term whether it's medication or psychological treatments, whatever it is, all that needs to be funded somehow. So is there a barrier of funding then? Or once you're in the process, in the system, let's say? It may be a very long time. So there's a shortage of mental health care practitioners in the first place. And there's a severe shortage of funding for mental health care in this country. All of which means that there might often be long, long waiting lists to get seen, particularly if you haven't got severe clinical depression. Right. Particularly if you're not suicidal, for example, you may not get immediate care. Interesting. Presumably, though, as we've discussed, by the time a man actually gets into it, I mean, the case is probably quite severe. Yeah, crazy. And so once you say it, so you go to the GP, the GP refers you? Yeah. So he referred me to psychological treatment, which is essentially therapy for a period of six months. And I went from there to a parents-in-class run by the local council, which was, I think, for me that- Was that a mix of mothers and- I was the only dad. Really? Yeah. Wow. It was a class of, I think, 12 or 13, when I was the only dad, which is strange. It was nice in the sense that, obviously, I was quite fun for me to be the only dad there. How did it make you feel? It made me quite sad, because I think a lot of dads would benefit from just doing some basic parenting classes. And for me, this was life-changing. It gave me the tools to interact with my son.  I got to the point, this was much later, but I got to the point where I was, he could spend time with him. It kind of changed my whole outlook about how I related to him. So I'm a big advocate for parenting classes. And I think a lot of people have this conception that parenting comes later in life, that parenting is parenting at a five-year-old or a 10-year-old. It's not a two-year-old, a one-year-old needs parenting. Definitely. And just being able to interact with your two-year-old or a one-year-old is life-changing. But you need to be taught that, especially if you haven't got the skills to do it. Definitely. So there is help available, but I think what we're discussing is the key barrier is actually for men to seek or identifying they need help and then asking for help. And then once you're in the process of funding a site, but there's stuff around that you can do. Is there anything else that you changed in your life? I mean, it'd be great to talk about exercise and CrossFit, which is where we met, because I saw a talk from Frank Brunei and Tyson Fury, both overweight boxers, but they both suffered, or still suffer from mental health problems and both said the big thing for them was seven days a week at the gym. Have you found the same thing has helped you? I am slightly ambivalent about, at least my relationship with exercise. I think in the long term it certainly helped me.  So I don't know if I developed necessarily a healthy relationship with the gym, certainly when I was struggling with my mental health. Now that I'm in a much better position in terms of my health, I find it very helpful. Going in, I go regularly in the morning, but I just find it gives me the kind of boost to be able to have a good day. And there's, I mean, there's tons of research showing that exercises are related with more positive mental health, but also more positive body image, all kinds of wonderful things. I think when you get down to it, I think the issue for me is that a lot of men's relationship with the gym is complex. It isn't as simple as saying that it's always going to be positively associated with mental health. There might be an aspect to it which is positive. There can also be a lot of aspects which of the gym can be negative, particularly if it gets addictive. I'm interested in what you mean, you don't feel good enough, not strong enough, and you start thinking about all of these types of things. Interesting, so if you do it in the right way, because it produces serotonin and all of these cool things that makes you more positive and... I suppose the trick is not to use the gym as a replacement for anything else that you feel is deficient in your life. Right, okay. Like you might be going, at least I would feel like I'll go to the gym and hit certain targets about how much I was lifting or how much I was. Like I could do or whatever. And suddenly feel amazing about myself. And meanwhile, my relationship with my son was deteriorating to the point where we had very little going on. So I don't think it's necessarily always a healthy thing. I think it has to be managed and I think there is a way of managing exercise that for the individual that can make it a positive thing. And then so with treatment, so it's a mixture of talking to people, drugs and stuff as well. There are lots of different options available. Drugs is one of them, it's a medication. It's often prescribed, sertraline is the common antidepressant. What you call it? Sertraline, it's the common antidepressant that's prescribed for depression. I am much more favorable, I think it just maybe to my personality to having a conversation with someone and working through what the issues are for me. The version of therapy that I went through was called family systemic or family centered therapy. Essentially it puts the family unit in view. So there would be sessions when I'd take my son into therapy with me and we'd play together and my therapist would watch me playing with him and kind of pick up on things that I might be kind of hiding or not wanting to talk about. And it's also about talking about my own relationships with my own parents and how that might influence what's happening to me now. So I think that kind of holistic perspective for me was very useful. Some people might find the combination of both medication and therapy really helpful. There are all kinds of other interventions that have been shown to be helpful with depression. And then the practitioners suggest and whatever treatment they feel is best and you go through that. I often feel it should be a two-way discussion and a decision-making process that's shared either with the GP or the health professional. And I think men respond better particularly when they're given some semblance of power in that relationship. When they're kind of not told this is what you should be doing but this is how we might get you help. Perhaps this is how I might get you better. And so if someone's feeling depressed now and wants to get some help what are the best avenues? Is it the GP? Are there anyone else they can talk to maybe anonymously or? So there are lots of places you can ask for help for. If you're really struggling and you need emergency care go to A&E and that's your starting point. If you're struggling with your health right now if you're suicidal go to A&E call for an ambulance go to A&E. If you feel like you are struggling but you're not sure whether you're struggling have a conversation with your GP if that's possible. GPs may not always be receptive. I think I was very lucky to have a GP who instantly went this is depression and we need to get you some help but GPs may not always react in that way. So if it's not the GP maybe have a conversation. If you're a dad have a conversation with a midwife or a health visitor. I think the tradition is now changing and health visitors are a much better place to have these kind of conversations with men. If you want to talk to someone anonymously try a barber. Yeah. Is there any like child-line type? So I use the Samaritans quite a lot. Okay, right. They're very helpful for me. They're all kinds of, the calm is another good example of a charity working with men. My end again is another good example. They're all kinds of charities that will be helpful. One thing that I will say is that a lot of men tend to think that depression will just go away. It'll just disappear on its own. And I don't think I've ever come across a case where that's been, that's what's happened. It just doesn't go away on its own.  So get help and don't feel that you have to do it on your own. There will lots of, there will be hundreds of thousands of men who are in the same position as you or wondering what do I do with this? I think the starting point is to acknowledge that something is wrong but then also then seeking help. And there's a lot more men going through this than you think, right? How many, what percentage is roughly? So in the UK we think that between about eight and 11% of new dads will suffer from postnatal depression. I don't know what that translates to in terms of the actual number but that's a huge percentage of dads. Is that similar? Roughly similar. So with mums it's about 60 to 13% will suffer from postnatal depression in the UK. So about one in 10 roughly will suffer from postnatal depression. So a lot of people are going for the same thing. Awesome, thank you so much for coming in. Thanks for sharing your story and all the advice and everything and see you at the gym. Yes, see you at the gym. Thank you. Hey, folks, thanks for listening. 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My cat just came in. She's so confused because the room is completely different It's looking all right. What we're gonna do is we're gonna split the tier lists up. So at the moment we've got It's all in one tier list. What we're gonna do is we're gonna do two tier lists One for healers one for dps 40 predictions. So this is where I'm thinking we're gonna the spec is gonna go uh barring any you know what in fact I'll do a proper intro and We'll just check this on youtube. I think so basically this is gonna be the Level 40 tier list and it's gonna be a prediction tier list because we don't know what runes are coming out yet What we do know is what talents people are gonna be getting and what spells people are gonna be getting You know, whether they get a new rank at level 38 40 anything like that Whether they get specific new spells at certain levels between 25 and 40 that are actually gonna be you know relevant powerful things like innovate and We're gonna use that information to try and adjust the tier list Which we currently have for level 25 and see whether or not specs are looking like they're gonna get stronger Or weaker compared to other specs based on what they're gonna be getting So we're gonna start out with priests. I guess what we're gonna do. We're gonna start out with the dps specs I'm not gonna do any of the the healer specs. We're gonna start the dps specs for the First video and we're gonna do another video for healer specs. So shadow Right now it's not really a spec. You can't really take mind flay and I don't really consider it shadow If you're not taking mind flay personally I think that right now you're just playing disc with you know A couple of shadow talents that are making you able to go more offensive as disc right now I've got shadows and a however at 40 i'm gonna have shadow in as s tier I think i'm gonna create a brand new tier list for this whole time This is gonna be a dps run one right so shadow I'm actually gonna put straight in s tier the reasoning for that is they're getting double the spell They're getting a good new rank of shield. They're getting mindblast Unfortunately pain is at 42 so they won't be getting pain But they're getting a new rank of inner fire and these these are 40 and then talent wise they're getting shadow weaving They're getting silence. They're getting vamp embrace. They're getting shadow form Honestly, they're also getting you can probably put this on here. They're gonna get darkness. I think darkness is worth putting on there So they're getting all of these great new talents that increase their shadow damage by a lot But they're also gonna be getting more tanky due to shadow form and this is not you know without considering any new runes We don't know what new runes are coming in So shadow gonna hit a really nice power spike at 40. I'm putting it in s tier I think they have a really good base toolkit in general And if any of the runes that they get are strong in in any way shape or form I think they have a really good base rune kit as well Then Yeah, they're gonna be thinking it'll be very spicy next up We've got feral and right now we have feral in beta and feral is gonna be I think getting stronger. They're gonna be getting the moment feral is kind of held back by the fact that they're They don't have enough talents and there's not any specific talents that Are massively strong for them But it's just this general utility that they're building up that they aren't able to get so things like improved shred Are very nice and gonna help them out a lot But it's just the general like being able to swap to bear and have rage due to furra things like that So they can you know run both furra and interrupt having more damage Uh, yeah the manual cried pomela obviously you're gonna be a factor as well for them I think And then getting things like innovate travel form shred at a good rank Diabare form which is going to make them way more tanky if they swap into bear bite Which you don't have at the moment. They're going to get a 38 rank. Obviously there's the pounce stun And then rip at 36 as well. So I think feral actually is going to get a lot more actual feral stuff as opposed to the The cheese that they have at the moment with the sunfire spec. They're gonna actually be able to play feral more Traditionally, so I think feral is going to be moving up in power from from for me from b to a Which is going to be nice to see Balance is I think just going to remain in the s tier as long as they don't nerf star surge if they nerf star surge Then it's going to lose a bunch of power But yeah, as again, they get all this great utility. They get nice Nice ranks for you know core damage stuff.  They're getting more crit on it crit damage on it Damage on it in general. So yeah, the star surge gonna gonna still be very painful if they don't nerf it hard So that's going to be interesting to see But yeah for now I've got them in s tier. We've got ret I think is actually comparatively Gonna gonna lose some power because there's not that much extra that they actually get That Is that you know That devastating they get the shadow resura that they can swap to they get divine shield, which okay They can attack during now instead of the the current little shield thing So there's that they get plate, which is probably the biggest thing right there play armor upgrade New rank of hodge so it lasts a little bit longer and then new rank of holy light to help help heal themselves And then repentance is pretty big deal. I'd say Uh Vengeance and then two-handed specks just a little bit more damage, but I don't think there's anything there that's like this massive Massive, you know game changing thing So I'm gonna say that they're gonna potentially reduce In in tier possibly again depends on runes depends on items that come out But I think it's it's not really that ret is getting weaker such they're just not getting As much stronger via talents and speck and spells than a lot of other specks are so Comparatively they're sort of falling off a little bit. I think uh pro I still think isn't gonna be a thing So we're gonna skip over that if it is I just don't know enough about to rank it honestly Haven't seen anyone really playing it So it's a very hard one to judge ellie and I think ellie is probably the speck in the game that's going to be getting the most Power gain through talents and spells this this patch. I think ellie is going to be absolutely terrifying I think most people will probably tell you that so I think ellie is ellie is a sure thing s tier right now Barring them getting some absolute trash runes and everyone else getting like god tier runes or something Or just some random hard nerfs on their current stuff But yeah 50% overload being able to use lightning bolt Loads more damage through their talents really good ranked stuff chain lightning Uh new rank of bolt at 38 earth shock at 36 searing turkham at 40 they get winchery They get grounding they get self rez they get double purge It's just the list goes on right the speck is going to be absolutely insane So yeah, you Like watch out for ellies and honestly if you're playing shaman right now and you're not sure what speck to go I'd say definitely go ellie enhance shaman And it's a tricky one to rank really because enhance shaman is going to have got two forms right It's got like damage enhance shaman and then it's kind of got like tank enhance shaman Um, and I think damage enhance shaman is just still going to suffer from lack of mobility and just generally not being that tanky If you don't play way then you're just so squishy. I've ranked it at b But arguably tank shaman could still be quite decent again. They're getting win fury grounding Um, I guess they're gonna have to use rock buyer as as the tank shaman so the win fury tome won't help them that much But they're getting a bunch of extra stuff in the way of damage So they might gain, you know some damage while being tanky. Well, we'll have to wait and see I think that the the the tank shaman is overall going to be probably better currently at 25 than it is at 40 So this is why I've kind of reduced the power a little bit and put it in b There we go It's it arms warrior and I feel like everyone's talking about arms warrior Um, and I might be wrong here, but I don't think it's going to be s tier I think mortal strike is a big deal, right? They're getting a bunch new stuff, right? They're getting zerka raising pommel zerka stance Uh intercept so they're going to be very very mobile with both intercept and charge With the warbringer rune allowing them to sort of ping around in combat a lot So you better believe that they're going to have good uptime But I just don't know if they're going to have enough rage to maintain any actual threatening damage With all the new runes that people have so that'll be interesting to see I might be wrong and and you know higher gear levels when they're getting, you know freedoms and heal bar and stuff They might just be terrifying um, and and you know It's absolutely damage machine But I think they're still going to kind of feel the same sort of niche where they're just Like pushing in tanking a lot of damage being annoying putting on mortal strikes sort of a little bit almost more utility tank front line sort of Roll rather than The scary warrior that we know from wrath I just don't think the pressure is going to be anywhere near as high as as what we see in wrath from warriors But again, I might be wrong. We'll have to wait and see I'm cautiously putting them up to a but you know It's a prediction. Watch the space sort of thing fury Is basically just why wouldn't you just play arms? I don't think that the damage is going to be Realistically that much higher than arms has just consider you have to be doing double the damage of arms to make it worth it With the 50 percent mortal strike, right? So I put fury and see I'm I'm not expecting to see that many of them But yeah, maybe you'll get a few people playing it but yeah, it just doesn't have the the same sort of utility that The arms does and the damage if any doesn't really make up for it So I'm taking them out of NA tier at least and we'll put them in in C tier Pro I'm keeping in NA again. I just don't don't know enough about the spec Haven't really seen many of them. Haven't seen any of them do anything really of note So it's really hard for me to compare what I don't know now to you know with the new the new tools they're getting it's It's too hard for me to judge so I'm gonna put that in F tier NA you might see some it might end up being good. There might be some some Cheese spec that somebody comes up with but again, I it's a predictive list And I just don't know enough to to predict it assa So assa is going to have really really high sustained damage. I think they're gonna have good poison talents and then that with the Uh, the poison rune is gonna be Super annoying. I think they're gonna be getting cold blood seal Silphate vigor and and rogues are a tricky one to rank because they have so many options to sort of half spec right they can go like, you know A bunch of points into assa and then finish off with some in combat or some in serve or whatever right and do this sort of hybrid hybrid spec and then it's really hard to sort of Quantify what that spec actually is so I'm just going with pure assa at the moment, but there'll likely be some potential variants that are also very strong But yeah, the assa is going to be the sustained damage spec for sure where I think combat will have sustained damage as well, but I think assa is generally scarier due to the the nature of the way that it deals damages scary into both play and and Clothies and stuff like that as well. But these specs will most likely lack a little bit in utility and mobility Combat I've actually put the same but just slightly worse I think than assa combat is good at the moment because the early early talents are quite good So pretty much regardless what you play you can put a bunch of points in early combat and it's good right now at 25 But if you fully commit to it, you're basically just just like PvE damage, but it's very similar to fury. I think in that regard So I put combat down to be and then sub I think is going to be very very scary with prep They got cheap shot. They got kidney shot. They got blind, right? They got a good rank of abyss They they got a new backstab at 36. Okay. It's not amazing.  They are they're gonna be scary I think they're gonna be bursting people down like crazy. Next up we have hunter Just getting quite a lot of stuff I've kind of got spells pretty much the same for all of the specs because they're kind of relevant for all three specs The the specs don't really differ that hard in terms of the You know the way they play for the most part They deal damage in slightly different ways, but the the Spells and utilities are still relevant. So we've got rapid fire We've got frost trap, which is very strong Flair again really strong spell Uh feign death. So the ability to start actually, you know feigning and using traps. This is a huge deal Viper's thing, which is very annoying although more serious players will be having a big stack of uh Poison resistance potions to remove that Uh aspect of the pack So this is going to be nice for the group. So things like warsong and group world pvp Uh, the armor class is going to be getting upgraded to male They get a new rank of hawk a new mark and a new rank of freezing trap. So it lasts a longer duration Uh, and then marksman is getting true shot or a talent if you go all the way down It's gets range specialization. So more damage barrage scatter scatter is a very big deal. I think so marksman Potentially it depends it depends on if they decide to change the way that hunters is dealing damage. So right now they are very very heavy on pet damage and Blizzard has done some changes to reduce that and to put a little bit more of the weight on the Range damage. I think they need to to do even more. I think pets are still doing too much of a percentage of hunter's damage I think it's too easy for bad players to just autopilot do damage with them um And it would be it would be nice to see more of that damage shifted to their actual shots rather than just letting the pet do Auto attacks basically So yeah, I think that if that happens Then marksman will will potentially come up to s tier Because the damage is going to be crazy high from mark marksman in that regard And then I think bm could come down to a tier right if the pet is weaker than bm is weaker right makes sense and then I think survival is going to Likely stay in a tier. They're much more of a utility spec, right? They've got wyvern They've got lightning reflex counter attack sure-footed and trap mastery.  Just one shotting you. It's more of a team player So it's it's hard to actually rank that but yeah, just for overall pvp and overall Ranking I'm giving it an a Keeping it an a I'm not sure whether it's a right now or not I haven't seen that many people actually going for survival talents. Most people are playing bm There's a few people playing mm, but yeah Survival is quite rare to see at the moment. So it might not even be an a at the moment It's just the the the talents are mostly just utility at the top of the tree marksman again Remaining the same but could go up bm remaining the same but could go down again This is very much dependent on runes, but we don't know what the rune changes are So we go with what we know and try and make a prediction based on that Next up we've got warlocks Before we had demo in an a because the talents in demo weren't really worth taking early on Even if you played something like meta, which is potentially what you could could consider demo The early on talents just weren't worth taking you would most likely take something in affliction instead However, now you can go all the way down to soul link So That's going to be more of a traditional demo spec where you're just very tanky There's most of the talents in demo actually aren't that strong It's the soul link that actually makes the spec no doubt You you have the potential to get your pet back with Feldom because you can get the master demo now reducing the cast time Other than that, it's mostly just you know a little bit of tankiness for the pets resistances You know the resummons a little bit of stamina There's nothing that really stands out that much but the soul link making you so tanky is going to be the one to watch out for On top of that they're getting tongues They're getting fel hunter. They're getting spell stone new rank of drain life. So the drain life dot is going to be particularly annoying They'll be getting seduce They'll be getting demon armor at 40. So a very nice rank of demon armor They got howl of terror devour from the pet spell lock from the pet and then a decent rank of agony With shadowbot coming in at 36 So demo is going to be very tanky especially if they play with something like meta the melee players are going to be having a very very bad time trying to kill any sort of Soul link warlocks that also running meta Um, so I'm taking it from the not uh, not applicable spec, uh tier to beat it Um and Potentially it could be higher Again, it depends on the damage they actually put out But this spec kind of reminds me of nunu from league of legends for a while where he was kind of just like trash But he also makes you trash So basically he's just running around doing nothing being tanky as fuck Uh, but he also means that you makes it so that you can't do anything either, right?  He's just being in your face. He's throwing tongues out on your castes. He's spell locking. He's devouring stuff Yeah, it's just like a bruiser build Uh, just being super annoying.  I think there's room for this in the meta Uh, but yeah, the downfall of this spec is the lack of instant cast corruption. No doubt about it 100 percent Uh, which is where affliction potentially will come in and that will have the instant cast corruption Uh, and it will have a bunch more damage But it will also have a bunch more drain So I think affliction warlocks offensively are going to be a lot scarier than they are right now Right now, they've got okay damage But there's not they don't make you sweat as hard as they will next patch And they're also going to be healing up more than they are currently next patch However, more strikes going to be in so it remains to be seen how much that actually Manages to reduce their healing how it interacts with the runes and these kind of things So affliction, I've still got staying in s. I think that they're getting enough stuff to stay in that tier in the same place They are currently Destro is actually going to move up a tears.  They won't get more more crit damage due to ruin range And just flat damage and obviously they get all these these good things that we talked about before Um, there's I feel like there's a couple of options for destro this patch where they can either play with succubus and Then they can play with um with chaos bolt And the succubus is going to allow them to set up damage get cast off these kind of things Or they can play with meta and they can play with uh the fel hunter And the fel hunt is just going to run around being annoying purging cs and whatnot Meta's going to make them tank here and then they're going to have the instant searing pain And there's got there's a talent actually that's going to make that searing pain critical over it So they're going to have the option to play a lot more instant base destro Rather than Going for cast base destro and just try and put our damage in that way And then if you get any sort of cast off any sort of emulates incinerates anything like that Then your damage is going to be going through the roof with the the searing pain So that's one to watch out for as well. I think there's definitely two potential options for them there I don't know if either of them either of them are going to be amazing. I think s athlete's probably going to be stronger But again want to watch they could get some nice runes if lock gets something like shadow fury, then this could be very very strong Uh, and then finally we've got mage And I think mage is definitely going to be stronger Next patch than they are now. I don't know How much stronger I think it kind of depends on like again, it depends on runes But mage gets a nice rank of bolt. They get longer poly nice rank of blast. They get more mana. They get mage armor New rank of arcane explosion. Okay. This isn't that impactful for frost But overall their single target damage is definitely going to be better on top of that They're getting barrier block and then shatter plus ice shards, right? This is where their shatter combos are going to come from from their ice lances Are going to if they run it are going to potentially be doing a lot more damage this patch And they're going to have that more traditional frost play style that you're used to seeing in in, you know tbc and rat um Isn't cone of cold 42 I feel like cone of cold comes in at 42 Can someone check that for me? No, but the rank of cone of cold It's going to be a low rank cone, right? Rank two cone is 42 Yeah So your cone of cold is mostly going to be used for utility not damage Again depends on what runes come in. Are we going to see water elemental? Are we going to see deep freeze? Stuff like this is definitely You know we're going to push frost up into s tier if they do end up getting these kind of things So yeah, we'll have to wait and see on that one. I think mage is going to be very very uh dependent on the runes that they get fire, I think I think fire could stay at a tier again. It depends but they get a lot a lot of damage Uh And right now fire is actually doing pretty good single target damage or burst damage the issue is that they go oom But yeah, if you do a fire mage, they can definitely burst you down So with this increased damage on top of that They're going to be they're going to be scary single target. I think uh At level 40. So again, I've got all mage specs rank to a tier It's difficult to say it's going to be dependent on runes big time. I think mage compares even more so than most other classes Um, and then yeah arcane arcane, I think is actually going to receive Probably would be one of the first classes to actually get some kind of nerf because of the arcane surge And right now arcane mage is already doing these cheesy arcane surge plays with arcane blast and It's only going to get worse when cs is going to be a thing I think they're going to have arcane mind and they're going to have arcane power, right? And So basically what they're going to do right is they're going to sheep you they're going to cast an arcane blast into pom arcane blast with cs Right, so you're not going to be able to react or do anything And then they're going to mana pop back to full mana and arcane surge you and they're just going to one-shot you And I don't think there's I don't think there's going to be many classes other than like things like shaman with way and maybe warriors with like the big HP pool Warlocks with soul links stuff like this that are going to actually be able to tank this I think even if the surge doesn't crit This is going to be doing crazy damage with arcane power, right? Absolutely crazy damage So I think that what is going to end up happening is I think arcane surge is going to get some sort of a change on earth Because this is a very very obvious and easy to execute one shot And people are going to cry So I'll be surprised if that doesn't be be a thing isn't isn't a isn't a regularly seen thing Yeah, it's um, it's going to be scary for sure so Arguably you could put this as s tier because of that If that sort of cheese gets it's nerfed. I don't know how much you know outside of that they have In terms of utility Or capabilities, but they get some good ranks 40 missiles um Which is yeah, this is It's good for them for sure, and I think you might see more arcane healer majors Uh, but I'll rank that in the next next tier list So, yeah putting putting major in a tier all round um rather than doing anything too crazy and Jumping the gun and putting him to s tier my original predictions for last Phase when I was doing 25 actually had major quite high and we all know how that turned out So I'm being quite cautious with mage um, and if something turns out to be busted then you know Unlucky But yeah, that's that's the tier list. I think at the moment I'm I'm pretty pretty happy with this as I said, it's it's a prediction and no doubt most stuff will will change It's it's sort of the best idea You know Rough estimate that we've got without knowing what ruins are coming in what gear's coming in all these kind of things Which will all change things no doubt, but yeah, if you want a rough idea of what to to give a go next patch What's going to be high I ranked And just a strong spec then at least this gives you some kind of an idea rather than just closing your eyes and picking a classroom