Good morning everybody. It's good to see you and that you all look healthy and well and our We're gonna have be the do a presentation to us on the ag long portfolio Casey's with us the director and and so welcome Casey and We'll let you kind of take over and I think it'd be great to hear about, you know, the ag portfolios and and Then we'll we'll get into the broadband issue and maybe some of that stuff a little bit after the ag issues Okay, well, thank you for inviting me this morning Senator stars as you said I I'm the Manager of Vita and president of vac, which is the Vermont agricultural credit corporation and that's a non-profit corporation under the large umbrella of Vita Vita In agricultural lending as well as commercial lending and today I'll focus on our agricultural portfolio and what we're seeing Just to give you some numbers our entire loan portfolio both commercial and agriculture is about 280 million so small-scale certainly Relative to, you know, traditional commercial banks. We're about the size of a Community bank within that about 40% of our portfolio is Agriculture And agriculture includes dairy and non-dairy, but dairy is a significant part of the agricultural portfolio about 60% of our ag portfolio Is in dairy and that translates to about 65 million dollars in outstanding loans so as a Proportion to Vita as a whole that represents Somewhere between 20 and 25 percent of our entire Loan portfolio is in the dairy sector Our Typical farms for dairy are in the small to medium range. We are not really there to serve a Significant portion of the large farms as categorized by the number of cows. We have a few but Typically, we're in the small to medium-sized farm range Um right now as as you all know, it's it's a very challenging time for dairy It was looking to be a Decent year for the industry before COVID hit and so with that impact It's You know shaken the dairy industry quite a bit and so as a result What Vita and back is doing is we're helping the farmers by Trying to provide as much Relief on their Debt obligations as possible to kind of carry them through this stressful time where the price of milk has really dropped significantly and yet They've had to continue operations. They you know, just because the Country shut down the milk the cows still needed to be milked They still have expenses to pay and those expenses have been more than they're getting for their price of milk So it's been it's been really significant. So we've been helping by Doing deferrals on their Loan obligations to the extent that that we can do that as you can imagine with it being a Significant portion of our portfolio. It's had an impact as well in our cash flow, but we're Carefully monitoring that and looking ahead and making projections and doing a lot of financial analysis and stress tests and You know, it's a it's a evolving and changing and dynamic Space right now for for dairy as well as everybody We did have some success with the PPP Program And it came sort of maybe on a slightly later side for a lot of these small farms that were also perhaps You know partnerships or proprietors ships, but nevertheless As far as the number of PPP loans that we did relative to the total there were 82 that Were in the ag sector and of those 47 so roughly, you know over half went to the dairy industry from from what we processed So so a significant portion went right to dairy However, you know, I'm very Do you know the amount or anything the average amount that they may have received or Yeah, so for us For the loans that we process the average For dairy was about $21,000 so pretty small and You know part of the challenge there was just how the program was set up And there wasn't a whole lot of guidance certainly not early on as far as what you could count as an employee so That's probably wasn't fully Fully used as far as and certainly My dad it would meet the needs that are out there. It was something but And hopefully these will be play out the way that they're supposed to and that the loans will be forgiven And and that's really the key and we're all hoping and crossing our fingers and waiting to see Exactly what that guidance looks like when it comes out But with that sort of very undefined gray area was difficult to know well, you know What exactly is eligible to know what will be forgiven because Having to then be stuck with Alone that you were not counting on in this environment Um You know Rose yeah, sorry I had to unmute myself. Um, yeah, I just wanted to follow up on that because I was gonna ask how many Loans were that did you anticipate being forgiven? But it sounds like you don't even know that yet Which is kind of the theme of this whole crisis. Um, I Mean when you process them The intent is that a 100% will be forgiven and there is criteria there where you know 75% has to go to payroll and no more than 25% Can be for other costs and if you meet that formula Then presumably you meet the criteria for it to be forgiven, but the devil's in the details always and so what qualifies as a payroll expense versus non payroll and Exactly how that's going to be laid out. That's what we're waiting to hear Okay, so you don't have the those details yet in the meantime or that what is the interest rate that people have to pay or On the loan or is that not they're not in paying back mode yet? They're not in paying back mode yet. No, so we'll be coming up soon on that eight week period where everyone will be Applying for that forgiveness. So right now There is yeah, they're not in payback mode. So hopefully most of these will be essentially forgivable loans which become grants and free money if you will but Well, did you figure did you figure out how much they would be Eligible for with the records that they sent you from the farm Yes, so we did a fair amount of scrutiny over that and tried to right size the loans if you will so if an applicant came in asking for a loan that looked like based on What guidance was out there at the time that it would not be? Forgiven We would work with that applicant to go through that process and make sure they understood, okay Here's what you know is per the guidance at that time What we believe is the amount that will be forgiven. And so we work through it that way I'm not sure, you know, I think it varied from lender to lender how they actually process them. Yeah Chris you had a question and Brian the question Cassie So the feds got you this money for you to lend out Is that right or did you have to go through a bank? I'm just kind of curious We know free money, but some it has to originate somewhere. Well, yeah, I shouldn't use that term so loosely so this is a program so so We didn't receive any money It's a guarantee program through the SBA and ultimately the US Treasury Where we fund the loans with our own money and all the banks and other financial institutions are doing the same thing So we access our own liquidity sources be it, you know, banks have deposits. We have lenders And we fund that loan So it is a loan that's on our balance sheet Under this program and then If it works according to how it's supposed to work at the end of eight weeks that application to get the forgiveness goes to the SBA and they Determined that it's forgivable and Pay the loan the loan off. I don't I can't exactly tell you how that money is going to flow if it comes through us or directly to the borrower To be determined there but these are I hope it comes to you You have a real problem and then is there an envision of any administrative costs for you guys are being reimbursed for Yep, the the program did have fees built into it that the lenders Will receive we haven't yet from the SBA based on The dollar amount of the loans Thank you, I just was curious about I believe Brian had a question. Yes. Thank you Bobby So Cassie you mentioned that most of the loans were for small and medium-sized farms, right? Well, that's just our portfolio Okay, so what about the geographical distribution of those? Are you are you seeing more in any one particular part of the state or is it pretty well evenly distributed? I haven't actually looked at the geographical distribution, but I would venture to guess that it's Concentrated where our concentrations in dairy are now which are Addison County and Franklin County Would be my guess. Okay. Thank you Yeah, no any other questions right now. Well go ahead and continued case So just getting back to what we are seeing As I say right now the farms are they just don't have the cash and so our our immediate tool is to put in referrals as Much as we can and and we've got a significant portion of our our portfolio Is on deferral I'd say somewhere between 40 and 50 percent of our dairy borrowers are on deferrals And as I started to say the unfortunate part of this whole thing from a timing standpoint is that until the pandemic hit The year was looking Pretty pretty good. It was an optimistic feeling out there for the farmers coming off of a really long Downturn in the milk milk pricing so The pandemic is just one more Sort of factor that's hit the sector that's completely out of their control and the farms that had Started say expansion projects back when milk prices were good They were struggling to get through the down cycle and We're just starting to come out of it and and now they're you know, they're debt laden their debt heavy because they took on expansion and now they're just You know, there's just no It's it's it's difficult You know, not all the farms though are equal and There are farms out there that have the Asset base and the I guess the size really to kind of weather this a little bit better The the fear that I have is that When you have an entire sort of sector going through the same crisis those values go down quite a bit and so if You see a lot of farms that are if they're not able to get through this because they don't Receive some help to get through it. Then it's a real triple way. I mean because they're Trying to get out or liquidate or forced to get out At a time when their asset values have Really really dropped Yeah, like we've heard That the price of animals is way down. I don't know, you know, and I would expect that's accurate Plants some plants are of clothes some beef plants in Pennsylvania and Yeah, and of course milk isn't selling so you can't you really sell them to another farmer You know and get get much money the value is gone. They're Right, that's that's exactly right and that's not a scenario that Helps it all it doesn't help the lenders because we feel Under collateralized doesn't help the borrowers who you know might choose to exit Because they want to But this would be the worst time to try and do that you can't even really have an auction So how do you how do you value things? How do you know? Yeah, that's true, too? Yeah So they The farms are they getting behind or they've been behind on their on their Payments and things they've been pretty stable. I know I Don't think we had you in earlier this year to to go over You know the gains and the losses and in all that which we normally would have had you in if we'd have been around Machiliar Hear that so how how is that? How's their portfolio holding up as far as losses and things? As far as actual losses We are so so just to distinguish between a loss where I Basically VAC and the borrower have exhausted all of the sort of options to keep going and it's say in a liquidation mode and The collateral that secures those loans was not enough to pay off all the debts, you know historically That figure has been very very low Because we work with the farmers a long time we're we're very patient and Try I mean, it's a last resort to you know for somebody out of business. So That's really one of the roles that VAC plays and why if you know VAC is here Because we can do that, you know traditional lenders really can't do that So to back to your question we haven't really taken any significant losses because of COVID But it's also been a very compressed time frame. So We're not looking to liquidate anybody right now that would be you know That's not even on the table. There were you know accounts that were in banks bankruptcy well before this They're still in bankruptcy. That's a whole nother Story not that we have a lot of those but that that's you know happened pre-covid and has nothing to do with the current situation the current situation is you know the health crisis that's slammed every sector and Dairy it's been been one that's probably been slammed even harder because they've had to keep operating They didn't have the option of closing the doors and not incurring those overhead expenses and Laying people off They've had to keep going and milking the cows And then at the same time Their income has taken a big drop Yeah, you know, I was always amazed and impressed When Joe would come in and tell us you know about the low percentage rate of loss that That they've taken you know from the from the back program over the years and how other businesses and people that borrow from Vita Was always higher than the ag sector that Farmers usually, you know, if there's any way at all they pay the bills and in that sum, you know always been I've always been impressed by that. Yeah, it's true It's true. So Ruth Yeah, I was just wondering If you knew I beyond Vita what the total number of those paycheck protection Program loans the ag sector has gotten In Vermont if you have those sort of sector-wide numbers. Yeah, um, I Don't have it by sector. I can tell you that for the entire state. It's about 1.3 billion I think there were 12,000 loans. My guess would be that ag is a very very small portion I heard in testimony that Yankee Farm Credit gave to the House Ag Committee They did a I don't know. I think it was like about a hundred and fifty PPP loans. I don't know how many of those went to dairy and I don't know the dollar amount Okay, but still, you know that small number It's a small number, but they had there have been at least a decent number of Farms that have applied, you know, if they if there's been I mean, I'm assuming you did outreach to farms saying hey You are eligible and absolutely Absolutely as we did with the idle program when the farms first became eligible, which was quite late in that Program rollout The good news there is that when the money apparently ran out and it became known or obvious to The SBA and Treasury that Farms were only given like one or two days to apply by the time they were eligible to apply they extended that Window so that farms are now I think pretty much the only Entity that still is allowed to apply. They've kind of shut it off to others others And do you know has that program gotten its act together? We heard kind of nightmares about it how it was functioning. Yeah, um, I Know there were a lot of hiccups early on that the SBA has worked hard to Address and I have heard that money has started flowing This morning I did touch base with the SBA to find out specifically for the farmers how that's going and was really pleasantly surprised that There is a measurable number of farmers there are a venerable number of farmers in Vermont that have received Idle funds. I think it was about 73 73 Idle Applications from Vermont Ag industry, so I should say it's ag industry. I didn't get it broken down by NAICS code So I don't know if how much of that is dairy versus non-dairy Okay We've gotten it or at least some people in the farm sector have gotten it which is yes Just trying to get a big, you know a full picture of the resources that have been or may be available to that Yeah, I don't think it's a lot of money of those 73. I think it totals about five million and Money that has gone out To the ag sector Got it Is that that's the program that's run out of Texas that basically has a $10,000 like Forgiveness is there like a 10,000 up to a $10,000 Advance that's really considered like a grant you get to keep that money regardless of whether the loan is approved or not There were hiccups with that early on so I think you know if anything if there's a silver lining here for the farmers on that is that they were better off by being late to that program So that some of these hiccups could have you know have been worked out a little bit hopefully So you know and again, I don't have data on how much of that five million is grants versus loans I do know that the $10,000 figure that was Given to everyone early on has turned out to be Pretty much less than 10,000 in most cases because it's turned out to be a per employee number as opposed to what people thought Yeah And and you can do both Idol and PPP You can but if you get a PPP you have to use you have to pay off the portion of the idol that Went to to payroll so that you're not getting sort of money for the same purpose from both programs Yeah, so you aren't double-depping them. Yeah Yeah And Anymore questions from That I'd like to hear a little bit about broadband and and how Yeah, the Northeast Kingdom. I mean, I'm fortunate where I live So I have excellent broadband but a lot of Essex County and the more even the more ruled Towns within our Orleans County You know can't get broadband and I know We're working hard to Expand that out with some covert money. That's supposedly coming So how's that work with you folks? Well You know, I probably have a lot more questions on this than I Can speak to as far as providing any Definitive information here. All I know is that there is some We have an existing broadband program. It was created last year It's a very small pot of money that the state appropriated to Vita to set up a loan loss reserve to do Relatively small Projects Were capped at a loan size of four million which I say small. That's actually a very very large loan for Vita None of our other programs have have loan sizes that that large but having said that In proportion to the amount of money that's needed to build out broadband. It's small Nevertheless, there's been some interest in it And so we We do have state support to Help build out broadband so far There's been little uptake in the program itself because there still is Sort of the the The CUDs are being formed and they have to do feasibility studies and so it was We got the program on our in our statute before a lot of them are ready to apply Now we enter COVID and the CARES Act and there's Hopefully Momentum here to Use some of that money to actually build out broadband the way it needs to to be done And and use some you know federal public money to do that and it's it's a lot of money that's required I know that the Department of Public Service is working on a plan USDA has Some money We have we go back and forth with USDA on how to do that So there's there's a lot of questions at this point Vita is being brought into the conversations sort of as a potential source to leverage some more money It's something that would be you know tremendous to our balance sheets. So I'm looking at how I would mitigate that risk spread that risk around To other entities that are more involved in broadband on a say national scale. So it's You know early on but there's also that time pressure if we're going to use CARES money There's only six months to use it. So That's a problem. You can't build out broadband statewide in six months What about if you had a If you had a plan and a contract even though it went Beyond the six months if you were Qualified prior to The deadline would you still be okay to keep working after the six months? Yeah, you know, that's a great question And it's probably one more. I don't know Michael if if you know the answer to what qualifies as Having deployed the CARES money Can it be allocated in a restricted sense but not be at the you know ultimate recipient level yet or I'm unclear on that So there was a call between NCSL and the National Association of Legislative Fiscal Officers with U.S. Treasury Just the other day And we our office took some notes. So this is a call from the National Association of Legislative Fiscal Officers with U.S. Treasury Just the other day And we our office took some notes So this isn't binding on anyone. It's not a Treasury guidance document, etc. It's just a reflection of the call But they said the money needs to be expended by December 30th 2020 but they are still trying to figure out the details of what Total expenditure is Oh Oh Just and they gave an example their example was if you Enter a contract for broadband deployment on December 30th, but there's no Fruitful construction that that does not qualify So So there there's still some Ambiguity, but they're they're kind of drawing the line that expenditure and they have to define further define what that means Well, boy, that doesn't give anyone much time to Do a plan and in all that Right, so it's it's a Pretty big challenge So I'll be talking to the commissioner later this morning on this topic and trying to Figure out some of these Most helpful in Michael are you're gonna keep on top of that info and so we'll have that as we move forward For to give our constituents basically Yes, and you know Steve Klein and Stephanie and JFO and Becky washington and and and basically Luke and and Jen Carby and I have been been following that issue and trying to get as much information You know treasuries doing I think the best that they can do But they're dealing with a ton of questions from the states Ton of scenarios well if I use it like this or if my school funding formula is this does it qualify? Can I build a building, you know think things like that and and and it's There they're they're Sincerely trying to achieve the intent of the cares acting getting the money out But they still have to answer a lot of questions. Yeah Chris I think you had your hand up It's okay. I mean I guess I would say We may well have a challenge of Whether or not we can spend the money so I to my colleagues and more broadly We got to be brainstorming here Because sending money back to the Treasury makes very little sense at a time when So many of our folks are struggling Well, you take a lot of firm operations Even you know the small and the mediums rely on broadband so bad that You know and and they're out in the rural parts of the state You know from water quality management to nutrient management Yeah, there's so much of so much depends on having Broadband now that it's really important to get as much out of This help as we can. Yeah Any further Info on that casing You know, I don't I don't really think I can add a whole lot To this as I say there's more challenges and questions right now. Yeah, and I mean I think senator Pearson brings up a good point, but at the same time I guess maybe it's the optimist in me that's saying here's here's the Golden opportunity to get a lot of federal money to build out Something that needs to be done at at a you know, At the public funding level Because private money is just proving to be very very challenging and it's not getting the momentum and so I'd hate to see this not Get some good traction, but yeah, there are definitely challenges and and maybe maybe there is something at the national level with I mean we're not the only state in this everybody's Got broadband issues and So Well, I hope that that will sort of work its way through the The state and the national level and figure out, you know, what's realistic here And congressman Welsh has been very clear that many of them are trying a second round that will involve broadband funding I mean we could do some stuff by December yesterday in finance. We spent a lot of time in a joint committee with house energy and technology and the commissioner of public service To ask what are we doing in the short term? What's realistic? It was a challenging conversation, but there are people clearly thinking about that. So Well, I think we're going to be able to do that. Yeah, and Did you talk about how much money was there, Chris? Was where Well in in that we could qualify for is the pot Well million million million million million million million or $80,000. I mean That's an interesting question. We have actually been sort of frozen out of some of the federal broadband Pockets of money because we did a bunch of spending Back in the era and the retail kind of investment Time so I know that lehi is trying to get us back In there, but the most promising thing I've heard is not that we would use COVID money That we currently just got no broadband, but that a second round That is geared directly to rural broadband may be coming in subsequent COVID relief bills Welsh and others are working hard on that bill just dropped You know who knows but but let's face it. We do know Vermont is not unique in struggling to educate kids who are sitting at home with spotty broadband All over the place. Yeah, Brian. Thank you Bobby. I actually I'm gonna ask Chris another question not casting Do you have an idea of how much money is needed or another way to look at it would be percentage wise What percent of Vermont still does not have Broadband in other words is this a problem that's never going to be solved because it's just you know trillions of dollars or do you have a firm number Well firm numbers are tough to come by The highest number I've heard is fiver to the home everywhere. So that's the pinnacle. That's that's something Something that it would be, you know New York City kind of goal would be a billion dollars The more recent Estimate was something between I want to say 90 million and 240 million and that is to make sure everyone has Some kind of high speed internet that is But the problem is and that one of the complicated factors and why the estimates are all over the place is It's we're pretty far beyond the time when everyone in Troy has no broadband And everyone in Newport has broadband what we're what we're seeing is rural communities Down towns have decent internet and it's and it's hiring somebody to go get the last You know 20 roads in the edge of town and that's a very high-cost Proposition and the people that are serving downtown don't want to do that And so why would a company say oh, I'll go get all those really expensive last mile people This is the challenge and and so At the same time You know the EC fibers and some of our success stories They've been successful because they went to regions where there was nothing and they could expect a very high pickup rate And now we're starting to see and the work Cassie and and folks have been involved in Is that next tier where all right, you know, it's it's only whatever 30% of people have access to high speed So we think there'll be a pretty good pickup rate and that just gets harder and harder as we go So good people are thinking about it. We've not had a I would say a very concrete plan on the whole picture And then people like me and others yesterday were saying well, what can we do in the next four months so that in the fall More of our kids during a lockdown period will have access more of our teachers for that matter You know and that would be a wireless option some of those things that are decent solutions that could be decent We're a lot of people are wrestling through it. I wouldn't be surprised if we had some special committee gets set up to Really drive this home in the next month. I hope we will but people are working on it But it is a whole range and it depends what you're truly asking for It's not unlike what happened with electricity. I think was it victory that was the last town in Vermont to get electricity 1950s, right like in the 60s, I think yeah, so That seems like you know, I was not far off there, you know, so that is kind of remarkable and we're trying it is very much like that That's where the electric co-ops came from Yes, that's where the you know the other issue is do we keep paying Comcast to build out and send all the money out of state Or do you try to look invest in in local entities that keep the money moving and working here? That's my desire obviously and a lot of people have been talking about that but that's another challenge that we have very clearly Of course, yeah, it really like you said earlier, Vermont isn't alone in this situation and This should be a national Issue and set up like George Aiken was a big player Governor Aiken when he was in Washington as our senator to set up Roll electrification because in the village like North here and Troy in North Troy They had you know lights and everything and everything was hunky-dory But you move a mile up the road where our farms are and We were still milking I wasn't because it was just before my time But my dad and his brothers and they were all milking You know 60 cows back then by hand and it was You know lugging ice It was a nightmare and but anyways We got to get moving here and Cassie did did you have anything else that you'd like to present to us Because we we know you're busy and don't want to steal your time away from you Yeah, no, thank you. I'm just I'm happy to be given the opportunity here and just to Share what I'm seeing and hearing from from farmers that You know they they're in a situation where they just need some help Cash not loans they don't need more debt and They're They're in it just as all the other sectors have been hit So Have you Received many requests from other businesses and and like how much they've lost or But they're doing you know in other sectors that you manage Well, we've got a fairly decent Concentration in the hospitality industry and I would restaurants and hotels and Caterers event planners Traveling tourism kind of all in that bucket and that's another tough one because they've been shut down and It's uncertain at this point when They'll really be able to open up and It's one thing to be allowed to open up and another thing to know that the customers are going to come Yeah, and so that's Something that's lurking out there as you know, how long will it take that group of business To Be back and really open But they they haven't incurred the Running costs that the farms have because they've been closed and the farms have to feed their animals and Get ready for spring's work and all those good things Right, right. So if they had you know a decent Savings and sort of Cash account to carry them through there. They're better off than others that may have Maybe just purchased a Business and took on a lot of debt So that's going to vary from sort of business to business As far as their ability to get through this Yeah Thank you. I know that Thank you. Are there other questions by any of the committee members? No, well, we want to thank you very much for giving us your time and Hopefully we're working on putting together Some kind of a direct payment to plan for our farmers and hopefully We can get that done in in the near future To help everybody Terrific. Well, I'm happy to provide any help I can so just let me know Yeah, well, thanks again and have a good day and stay healthy. Thank you. Thank you. Thanks everyone. Yeah So we That was a real good testimony, I think and But sounds like the those guys are having a hard time Having any money in their pocket to do much with The I was kind of surprised in the In the amount that the PPP program was helping out with So that that's really Probably been a saver to a lot of those people a lot of our farm people Any other thoughts on on Casey's comments Everybody's happy Yeah, I mean I see that Ella and Nancy are here So I'm wondering if we are we gonna hear from them and then are we gonna talk about the bill or what's the plan for this morning? Yeah, I I didn't see that they're on but if they're on we can move right on to Gus and and the crew from Vxcb, I don't see their pictures Anywhere Ella Nancy you guys in gas or you folks on Uses not on yet. Can you hear me? Yeah? Yeah? Good morning everybody There's got areas he was gonna kick stuff off. So I'm glad to see him jumping on yeah, we're for some reason We're a little early. We're usually a half hour behind but But anyhow good to see you folks and and We can get right with it and get this over with so you guys can get back to your jobs So Gus. Good morning. It's good to see you and Could you tell us a little bit about how your your programs are going and Maybe I know you and I had a chat about a grant that you've applied for for I think for ag and stuff and We'll hear From you in regards to whatever it is you want to tell us Your muted guss Little bit I'll try to get closer. Is this oh, you're fine. I'm just giving you a hard time. Okay Well, that won't be the first or last time No So thank you To all of you for what you're doing in this very difficult time The last time we all talked And we really wanted to continue the conversation we had when you had a joint meeting with the other body Ag committee Was about the issue of farmland access and I guess I I would just start by saying that This COVID pandemic has put a exclamation point at least for me, but I think for lots of us on the importance of a Food supply that is based here in New England and not dependent upon Way distant travel and I think we're finding that for many many products that Are coming from overseas, but food is so essential and And obviously one of the things in our statute that I know the chair is well aware of is it tells us That we need to respond in a timely manner to unpredictable circumstances and unique opportunities And this certainly was an unpredictable circumstance the state of Vermont finds itself in now So we are trying to figure out how best to add our expertise and our systems and our partners to Both responding to the immediate pandemic And also to planning for the future as we always are because the fundamentals of our work is really about making investments for the long term and To support the working land enterprises as well as the working lands and really when you think about our work it is Fundamentally about, you know, rural community development. It's also about climate change. It's about water quality And I did want to mention to this committee because you've been so involved in the water quality issues that Anar came to us a few weeks ago and asked us to take on The responsibilities or to consider taking on responsibilities and apply to be a clean water service provider for the Northeast Kingdom Which we intend to submit an application for At the at the end of May We're also talking with them about playing a statewide role in the enhancement grant program that was set up But we wanted to focus our remarks today just in in Really the immediate response which the viability program and Ella will describe for you And how we think we can be helpful and your your colleagues in the Appropriations Committee Have been asking us as well through your joint fiscal staff Are there costs that we are incurring that can be supported by the COVID? Relief fund as they look at the pressures that are going to be on the state budget So in a moment, I'm going to turn it over to Ella to talk about What the viability programs plans are in that regard? I do want to say I Understand at one point there was some discussion about the size of the viability program having the staff for Which is accurate, but there's a statewide network that we support and we are currently touching And working with 150 farms a year. I think 850 farms over the life of the program The second thing I just want to emphasize and and Nancy ever heart will speak with you also is Once we get through the pandemic there's no doubt that there will be changes in the agricultural industry and the most effective thing I think that effective financial tool we have To help young farmers get on farms and this goes to our discussion with your colleagues in the other body In providing farmland access is buying down the cost of entry onto farms Through the development rights program and just to put a clear point on that When we get through this and there are there are opportunities in front of us for land transfers to New owners, which will be the case for some farmers who want to retire Development rights generally take up about 40 to 60 percent of the cost of acquisition of a farm So it's a it's a really critical tool another thing we have worked on with the your committee has been a program that you initiated could call the rural economic development initiative and It has been enormously successful again Ella will describe that But we've been spending seventy five thousand dollars a year for the last couple years and bringing back Multiple millions of dollars to small rural communities through that program and we think it's time for it to Get an increase that may not be a good source a good Priority for the COVID relief fund, but we think the program has proven its its worthiness so With that as an overview, I'm going to turn it over to Ella to really describe how the viability program is reorienting itself To work with farmers in the face of this Both on an ongoing basis, but we also think that there is a need for Increasing support there in the short term. I had a conversation with deputy secretary Ted Brady about a month ago now and he what he said to me was I Need an expert who can have a half hour to hour conversation with every business in the state To help them navigate their way through this to figure out what programs they're eligible for How to apply for them what programs they're not eligible for? Yes, the small business development centers I think have been allocated about a million dollars to do that kind of work they don't work very much with the farm community and We think the viability program and its partners at extension at NOFA Vermont The intervail center of the Center for an Ag economy Along with a series of private consultants we work with our prime to have those conversations With landowners with business operators in the ag and forestry sectors So with that as an overview, I'll turn it over to Ella Except to say we are talking as the chair indicated with a number of philanthropic institutions including the community foundation about Any sources that can be immediately provided to provide assistance They haven't come to a conclusion yet, but we're working on that as well So Ella, I'll hand the floor over to you Are you able to stick with us? I'm happy to hear yes I'm gonna be I'm gonna be if you want to throw a question my way now senator I'm happy to take it, but no if you're sticking around. Let's hear from Ella Could should probably cover my question. Yeah, yeah, I think you ought to send Jane an email or Because I chatted with her this morning in regards to the ready Program and of course she knows that it's one heck of a good deal but she said she hadn't heard from your guts on them on the You know, maybe getting one more or two more people there, but God for you know, if you can trade a $75,000 first even a million. Yeah, I'd sit in trade all day long so Ship her off an email and Or we can talk a little bit later on I will do that. Yeah. Thank you. Yeah. Good morning, Ella Good morning, Senator Stoner and everyone. Thanks for having us I'm gonna just spend probably five to ten minutes probably ten minutes talking through Both just a good healthy reminder of sort of how our viability program works because it's relevant for the COVID response work That we're doing now and that we are anticipating trying to figure out how to carry some of this recovery response recovery work You know, not just in the immediate weeks, but for months if not years Forward for the working land sector. So I'm gonna cover a little bit of that and feel free to stop me with questions along the way Otherwise, I'll just sort of plow through my notes and then really trying to leave as much of the time for discussion and conversation and questions so To start with just a really brief overview what we're doing right now in terms of response work Is that over the past few weeks we launched and a very basic Intake form that asks any kind of working lands farm food forestry sector Business, do you need help? If so, what kind of help and then we have a couple of we've hired a couple of our best consultants for extra hours So that they can just immediately do our long Emergency consultations with any business that contacts us and in that hour They sort of assess the situation with the business owner Talk through their most immediate concerns point them to resources. We're very well. We're such a networked entity already And we work with so many other agencies and partners that Our key business advisors can point them to all the different resources and help to be a one-stop shop to get them to The right places that are the right fit for their variety of issues that they're dealing with and then also Design a few follow-up steps for that business and then in most cases right now that same consultant is then Available for up to five hours after that initial intake call to help them with those next steps Regardless of what they are if it's a good fit for that consultant and if it's not a good fit for that consultant Introducing them to somebody else in our network or outside of our network where it is. So really, you know Carrying that business through what their next steps are in as best way as possible Now is that the people that we're doing a farm viability visit so though that group of Experts. Yeah. Yes, we have two of our top consultants Sarah Flack who Works with primarily with dairy and livestock farmers and Rose Wilson who is an expert on the sort of sales and marketing And also sort of financial record record keeping Rose is probably the leading expert on helping farms through PPP idle and PUA As three key immediate financial resources to help and helping them identify which of those programs If any are a good fit for their situation and then literally helping them prepare the documents to get the application together Then walking them through the application online if need be through screen sharing with them from afar So I'd say about 80 percent 70 to 80 percent of our response work in terms of hours right now is just helping people apply for those one of those one or more of those three programs primarily PPP and And PUA right now is a really big one The pandemic unemployment assistance The idle is certainly a fit in some cases for farms. We're really glad it's now available to farms And as you know, it's sort of only open right now to farmers applying but it's not usually the best fit for most farmers And how do you have any idea of how many? Farmers you've already kind of helped out or that you're working with Yes, we I mean we haven't publicized this widely yet, but we're working with about 30 different businesses not just farmers probably 80% of those are farmers We it is open to other kinds of food companies that are not on farm as well as folks in the wood products and logging industries So we're in forestry in general So we have a couple of folks in that category But largely they've been working with farmers and largely that work has for the last few weeks been largely center out centered around those Federal federal state programs, but it also a lot of our work and work that's happening more through our partner organizations Not those consultants has been around Transitioning to online sales or transitioning to other kinds of direct consumer and figuring out how to set up farm stands to comply with state Regulations and such so a lot of other work is also going on particularly that would be the second category We're spending the most time helping folks with at the moment and we expect these needs to sort of shift and Trend in different directions over time, but we were felt really good about being able to just launch an immediate Intake and response effort with some are key strongest consultants in our network We have a couple more consultants waiting in the wings for us to have a little more funding to deploy with consultants and as and we're this week gonna tomorrow gonna launch a full-on press release and Very very broad outreach effort to let people know that this exists and we expect The number of calls we get to go up to like 50 or more a week easily And so we're trying to ramp up as we ramp up our outreach and make sure people know about it And we have the funding to do so ramp ramping up the consultants that are available on hand to give those immediate You know within 24 to 48 hours spend time on the phone with folks and go through their situation So that's what we're calling our rapid response business coaching You have enough people right now to handle what you're doing We our money sort of runs out this week, but yesterday the working-class enterprise board allocated $50,000 to keep it going for the next Five to six or seven weeks probably probably for the better part of the next two months. Hopefully depending on how much That how the need grows So we have some immediate funding and now we're sort of looking at the next six months the second half of the Calendar year thinking we're gonna need something like $30,000 a month to really ramp the capacity to meet the needs One thing I wanted to describe also is that this work includes farm first and the Vermont ag mediation program to You know from first is funded at very minimal level. I think something like $20,000 a year or something like that Through the state through the ag agency and yet they're able to stand up a program Maybe it's more than that, but I know it's not a huge amount of money It supports I think a part-time staff person at invest EAP to provide those Employee assistance program type services and mental health and counseling to the farm farmers and farm families as you I'm sure know And then the ag mediation program is federally funded to support mediation for farmers primarily around their lending with FSA and other lenders to mediate financial issues and But it can be Used also to help with some intergenerational family succession work and some other mediation related issues So we work really closely with both those programs We've never funded their work before but as part of getting some funds in the door at viability for all of our network of partners that are all doing This rapid response work in addition to some consultants that we've put on On contract will also be providing a bit of funding to those two organizations farm first and ag mediation to help them ramp up capacity So that they have enough time Staff hours to go out and like contact all of their past clients Contact people who've called farm first in the past with financial or mental health challenges or stress Anxiety and get back in touch with some of them and see how they're doing right now and do a lot more Proactive work rather than just waiting for the phone to ring. So that's been our That's sort of our code immediate COVID response work And as I mentioned, we're looking at $30,000 a month or so for the rest of the calendar year To be able to increase the capacity enough to meet that Yes Yeah, so you said that Your you've served 30 businesses. Is that is that correct 30 a week for the past a week? Okay, okay, so 30 per week and you have a breakdown of those and how much outreach. Have you been doing? we've done very little outreach we've mostly just put stuff on our website and that our Viability partners know that they could send clients that they can't handle to us so that we can help get them immediate response And maybe then they'll go back to those other programs and for the for more long-term viability support So I don't have a lot of data on that It's we've just been so focused on just getting the people the consultations We're getting putting in place this week sort of the data management collection system So that we have information on who those people are and what their primary needs Were when they came into the program and how many hours are consultants and what kind of business they are That's the kind of day we're collecting. We'll have by the end of the week So 30 per week and it's been about six weeks. That's about a hundred and you know, we've only really launched this This is our third week of providing that immediate business coaching We see this as a key part of the long haul of response and recovery So we plan to have this intake process and and sort of rapid response coaching set up for for the time to come in addition to the long-term viability business assistance that includes 10 Organizations that you're really familiar with we've for 18 years been partnering with the Interveil Center UVM extension in NOFA Vermont, but then Center for Narcultural Economy has a staff team of three, I think the Sustainable Jobs Fund Does business coaching under our funding land for good is a small organization regionally that does work on succession. So we have about 10 organizations and then the Woodlands Association does work with Woodlands owners under our viability programs about 10 organizations that We contract with annually through the viability program with state and federal funds And that we put out about seven hundred thousand dollars annually to support those organizations and each of them have one or two staff and then also use consultants so on the ground deployed our program annually has about 18 people who are You know most of their job or all of their job is doing viability business coaching and Mostly or in that business planning succession planning and feasibility analysis So just as a reminder, we have this whole deployed network of advisors across the state They're not you know, they're not VHTB staff But we and so they each organization has their own areas of expertise and specialty And we do get applications through VHTB and make sure they're lined up with the right organization through the viability So so one of the things that we've been talking about is you know, we've heard that there's a need for more of these types of services That there just isn't enough capacity But you know based on your description, it sounds like you have a lot of people in the network who are doing this And I'm wondering if you know what the where the holes are like the types of farm food and and Forestry businesses that you're not able to serve because you just don't have the expertise in your network or or do you not see holes? We do see holes So one thing I'd like to just make a comparison for you just I think it's helpful to understand that SBDC Vermont SBDC is a you know is a publicly funded entity that's Run through the state college system or in partnership with the state college system and deploys about the same number of staff across the state To work with all kinds of small businesses and then you know, I'd love to just I'd love to put that side to the side right now because they Automatically under the CARES Act about a million dollars to expand their capacity And you know while you know as we put out seven hundred thousand dollars a year annually for that kind of same number roughly similar number of folks across the state You know and and yet Vermont created this incredible system at the envy of every state and some many states are working to emulate with state funding You know, there's no there's no CARES Act automatic Increase of capacity for this work that we're doing. So, you know just to put it in perspective We have a lot of money deployed that what we're doing right now with a lot of those contractors is saying Instead of doing, you know, ten very in-depth business plans this year with ten clients Maybe you do eight long-term business planning projects or seven and you take the rest of our contract dollars And for those other couple of long-term projects and deploy that into many short term More COVID related assistance projects. So our existing network is able to work with more people right now That doesn't mean there's more staff deployed through that network to actually be boots on the ground. There's not more hours available Yeah, yes Have you been able Did you have another question Rose? Well, I mean, I appreciate what you just said Ella, but you didn't I haven't gotten to answer your question yet. Yeah Which is the holes and what what types of businesses in your star are you not able to serve because you don't have that expertise Yes, sorry, I was I was on my way there, but I saw a hand from senator Pearson. So let me get there quickly I'm looking at page 80 in the 2020 ag strategic plan that the That the agency of ag and BSF led and I co-authored a couple of pieces in that one on business and technical assistance So just as a reference, I'm just going to share with you because I drafted this and this is based on our network's vision of where the gaps are So it calls for 17 additional fte's that we wish we had to really meet the needs of the agricultural sector and food sector It includes six additional business advisors focused on succession planning And transitioning to new production strategies and diversification Two additional technical assistance advisors focused on land and environmental assessment That's something that we have very you know, we have a couple people who really can do that with folks We wish we had several just dedicated to that two consultants on marketing and sales to on grazing and small and large animal livestock The position that we're really missing at UVM extension for fte's on specialized types of production such as grain hemp apples certain types of production that we see as increasing in the state And then one additional fte at farm first and or ag mediation to assist farmers in crisis So that's that's a summary and it's you know I think there are many people who got together to create that draft and then many others at the agency and at BSJF that concurred with that level so it that represents some very wide understanding and Comprehensive and agreed upon understanding where the biggest gaps are Okay, thanks, and that's the current part of the ag the section that's already been done Yes, the piece that was presented to you in january. Yes, okay. I'll have to dig that out. Thank you We'll get to chris Have have you been able to getting money out of accd for for all this Promotion work that you're doing to try to get people on the On the ppp and these other programs. Uh, have they come forth with any contract money for you or You on your own We have not seen any funding from accd just partnership and getting the word out and sharing resources and their the materials they've been sending out have been Very very helpful for our network. Looks like gust might want to chime in though Yeah, I got So we we have not asked them for financial resources. They've been pretty overwhelmed with Work across the state with all kinds of businesses. Um, I think it's a fair question for us To put to them our first instinct was as ellas said to convert some of the Existing resources Just to respond, but I think that's something we certainly Can put on the table with them Well, I should think that This cost should be covered by cover 19 money and A lot of it's running through that agency and I would hope that You know, they would be willing to share a little bit of that Because it sounds like you've got quite a clientele of businesses that That call you depend on you and and you've been working with right along so you aren't creating a new wheel to deal with it but anyways Keep keep hitting them up for We'll we'll get back to that Call on chris Thank you so Ella a couple of questions and then A broad question the 17 people Is that the total universe then you listed who they would be? All right, the number You said you said there was 17 people and then you said we need somebody in grazing and are those subs of the 17 17th the universe Yes, what's the total do you have do you have a crude budget for what that would cost you? Yeah Generally budgets about a hundred thousand dollars per FTE So 1.5 million something like that 1.7 Yeah what um Do you have those people? I'm trying to understand I have a little series of questions. Do we have those people like if we said yes and we got the money up the door next month How quickly would this be? Execution how could quickly could you execute it? I think no, we do not have those 17 people in our minds who you know, aren't otherwise Engaged in working to some degree. We you know, we're we're going to need to attract and develop some of this expertise I think we have more people available on the sales and marketing side Who would be contractors from the private sector? Whereas like a livestock specialist for the you know, ideally would be placed at UVM and was going to take them a year and a half If they're even really planning on filling a position So I think I think I think it would take two years to get that kind of capacity And that wouldn't be like a concerted effort to build that capacity Okay Michael Is Michael with us? I think he's listening my My question is Sort of to the chair's question a lot of that seems to me to be food security And a logical response of the legislature to look at the future and say holy smokes We've got a troubled ag industry and we need to be feeding people and we're worried about supply chains And I guess it's this tired question of Is this kind of Intellectual infrastructure reasonable reaction or parts of it to A covid response therefore eligible for some of this federal money To your opinion. I mean it's the crude. It's a very broad conversation I realized but Um, you know, I think the devil will be in the details. I think there's opportunity for for some of those Some of those positions and some of those activities to qualify But it has to be expended by december 30th Um and so That question which we've already discussed is still a little gray Um, but I also think that that's certain things And this isn't in regard to what ellis said I heard Where I was asked last week whether a capital construction water quality project Could qualify for covid funds and I'm like Yeah, I I don't think so Right and and so Although there are projects that are definitely Would support the food system would support food security and help prevent further Insecurity if in a future pandemic, I don't know if all of them are going to qualify Okay Thank you My last question is uh for ella and gus We've been discussing The idea of a direct Relief package for dairy And had a discussion about trying to say to farmers who are Applying for this money Encouraging some Way for them to connect with The succession planning it's been misinterpreted that senate ag wants them to force them to diversify. That's not the case, but We we are interested. I think in the work you're doing and and stimulating that discussion And so my question is um While we figure out how to do that assuming we do so I'm worried that we're already at capacity you guys have testified as some of the leaders of this kind of work that That that you're already, you know overstressed and that's not a surprise to us so Can you help us think of a way that We can use this outreach to farmers where They need to help immediately and we have a desire to also strengthen the long-term ag economy You know, maybe it's An opportunity to use The application as a survey that Could provide some useful data that you know has a little life down in the coming year That's used by folks In the work you're doing or I just help us think about this because Let's say able to get money as a relief for Uh for farmers We have an opportunity to be a little bit creative about the application so that we get some I'm really interested. I'll say it this way in a also having some long-term Value here in in addition to short-term relief and That's been tricky for us to figure out and you guys are the right people to ask and then you also have the The advantage from from our point of view of being the people that are executing this and so what are some things we should be watching for That's a very jumbled question, but any any thoughts on that would be greatly appreciated Oh, do you want to take the first crack? Yeah, um So I did watch some of your your discussion not necessarily from earlier this week But I have a bit of a concept of what you've been talking about and um And appreciate and I I just say that you know, we run multiple grant programs through the viability program Including water quality grants programs supported by capital bill dollars and but other grant programs that we've run over time And there's it's often an opportunity to introduce folks at that same time Two technical assistance opportunities that can both support their management of that grant money and seeing a project through But also it's just a nice time to to look at an When we're sitting down and assessing an application and like you said, you could have certain kind of information collected in that application that helps identify Opportunities and needs to connect with different resources And so we do that all the time when we're looking at grant applications saying Oh, we're going to not only you know respond about their grant But we're going to talk to them about our succession planning program because now we see that they're like, you know at a certain age and they have Are frustrated about not finding a successor and we can help So we do a lot of that pairing not necessarily requiring the technical assistance with the grant because that usually causes problems of You know the volunteer nature of participating in a trust building A trust building exercise with a technical assistance person But some kind of assessment or conversation usually is helpful to the person who's receiving a payment and And most of the time gets followed up on so we we definitely see that as as a connecting opportunity um And just to answer your questions about capacity When I responded I want to I want to say that we can ramp up capacity. We can ramp up capacity relatively quickly I think for some of the needs that we're seeing We can bring on consultants that right now do a handful of hours a week But who have capacity right now, especially as other clients don't pick up projects that they thought they were going to have They have more hours available to us if we if we can fund them So consulting is where we're immediately making creating capacity significant capacity and Many of our partners are doing lots of work Their teams are working really hard and if there was some clear money for the next fiscal year or something Or even through the end of the year, they might be able to bring on a part-time or full-time staff The do a specific activity. We often hire retired farmers for certain kinds of Consulting because they really know what they're doing and they might have Uh, there's multiple ways we can find the capacity. Can we bring on 17 fte's by the end of the fiscal year? No, that with the right level of expertise that we just talked about No, but we could definitely increase capacity rather quickly on some fronts. So just just to say that there's a balance there So, you know and like I expressed, you know, if we do Fewer, you know projects where the client is using up 40 hours of consultant time and and instead help eight Businesses with five hours of consulting time. That's a way. We're definitely expanding our ability to meet the needs of the current crisis Plus you must have already a vast mailing list of clients that you know, you could contact and and put out put literature out there that you're there to help and and Move forward with so um Yeah, you've got the expertise. I think on board to do what we've been talking about um the I don't I guess we could add something like Your your thing to our application the way you do it and have it referred right to vhcb Uh for for people that are filling out this application if you want to contact Help for right away You know call vhcb and blah blah blah, but um Did that answer your question chris? Yeah, um, I would love uh You know You guys Gus you have a history of Innocently testifying and senate ag and having new programs erupt Uh, you know, I I'll just say from where I'm sitting Uh, I've been looking forward to hearing from you guys and I think that to the extent, uh We can Loop this in with this food security covet relief Get you some extra capacity. We want to I want to do that and so Help us think about the appropriate level of Getting that done because there is as you say a crisis opportunity here That our communities badly need in in my opinion Rose Yeah, thank you so In thinking about what our bill has in it right now And I don't know if you all have been able to To take a look at the language because it hasn't been posted yet, but Senator Pearson referenced the sort of technical assistance Thoughts that we had and I you know, I've been talking to lots of farmers over the last couple weeks and As I have quite a few of them here in my district and wondering If maybe the better route to go is to Do As part of the you know grant that they might receive through Through the covet relief to to include some type of questionnaire about what their needs are Instead of saying you have to do this thing. We ask them what what do you need? Do you need anything? Maybe they don't there's some really sophisticated dairy operations and farm operations that You know have their Plan together and probably don't need help except for financial help, obviously But don't need technical assistance and then there are others who may need something really specialized that you're not able to provide And so maybe the better route is to just put in, you know, sort of in the envelope with the check Here's the survey that we want you to fill out Or something like that, but I'm wondering if that's already been done. First of all But so I don't want to duplicate anything and create more work for anybody, but would that be helpful Because I agree. I think asking and starting the conversation rather than making that requiring them to do something That's not helpful or not necessary is is a better route to go And I had another question, but now it's just completely I don't Ruth I don't think we ever Had it in a bill that that they had to do this um, I I don't recall and we may have chatted about that, but I don't think it was ever the committee's Depermination that we were gonna Absolutely require somebody to do this subject to receiving the grant it just got Mistrued and and spread all over something Right. I I think part of our conversation was what what would be the most helpful and There was discussions about technical assistance. So I'm just wondering if some kind of survey questionnaire would be would be helpful or Or if that's something you've already done Oh gosh, uh, what? Hello, go ahead and then I'll jump in Well, I was just going to ask if it might be helpful for you to look at our rapid response intake form Which makes may be basically that exact same thing Yeah, whether you use the same form or the same idea or you people to just saying please fill this out in In addition and the htd will match you with Resources. Um, so can I put this in the chat box? Would that be helpful? Are using the chat feature on zoom? Uh, I think it would be could you email it to us? Yeah, sure And maybe michael should get it or michael already has a copy of that I don't I don't think I do So you could could you ship one to michael, uh, ellen? Yeah, and to linda Yeah, I I did think of my other question Which was when you find that you have holes in your capacity or expertise Are you working with regional partners? Um with with people in other states who may have the expertise I've heard from several dairy farmers that there's you know, considerable expertise in new york because they have a a lot of dairy in new york And wondering if if you're working with those partners to fill in any holes that you may have We do we have several consultants from new york state that come over and do work with farms and forests and particularly with Stig Beck who works with loggers um, and then uh, we've got folks from deem associates, which is a big, um Financial services firm based out of new york that works with dairy farmers more larger operations So we rarely contract with them. But when it's a good fit and a business isn't already Using a service like that. We have contract with them before so to some degree. I think um, sometimes we're poor in pointing people towards resources at cornell or something like that Not necessarily contracting for them ourselves But we have several consultants that we definitely pull from other states and then we have a regional consortium of new england and hudson valley Business advising organizations that we're building a network with so that we can all learn from each other and and share resources such as such as that Um Anthony Yeah, moving away from dairy for a minute. I wanted to go back to something I think you said earlier that I heard you say earlier and so make sure I heard you right In terms of talking about um helping farm, we have something in our bill and draft that intended to help non-dairy farmers Adapt to changing conditions to regain some of the market demand that they've lost whatnot And we've talked about the examples being farmers who maybe need help setting up a farm stand on their farm Or setting up a website for their farm so they could take advantage of new Ways of marketing that they could pivot to the new ways of marketing because as we all know You know csa's have become more popular and people are who are doing online sales are doing really well But not everybody set up to do that So we've put in our bill draft. I think some money that would be used for grants to farmers To do things like farm stands and websites and other things like that And and also to me it ties into the issues around hunger as well food security because we need to keep these farmers producing and expanding So I think I heard you say that you already do that I'm just I'm sure that I got that I heard that right We're talking about we've been looking about it mostly in terms of grants to farmers, but I guess another option I'm not saying I don't want to do grants to farmers But another option would be to support the work you're already doing because it seems like you already do some of that stuff Is that true? Yes, I think both are true grants and technical assistance often need to go hand in hand But sometimes grants might overlap with technical assistance because we do Pay and provide things around marketing planning marketing research And even branding and website development But our our funds for that are limited So, you know a farmer might come to us get some sort of coaching on that and a cup You know and then maybe 10 hours of a firm's time helping them set up some of their new marketing and online sales, for example Uh to intervail in particular as well as nova vermont in the center for now economy I think are all helping producers of all kinds dairy and otherwise who want to switch to more on-farm sales or online sales Uh and increased direct consumer sales There's a lot of that happening right now an extra $5,000 grant to support of the website costs or The purchase of software for online sales, for example can go a long way to To support that so I guess I wouldn't deter you from looking at grants for this kind of purpose But it's nice to know that there's also a substantial amount of technical assistance through the viability network for that work already and that Someone might get a grant for a couple thousand dollars and then come to you folks to get the support they need To do whatever they're trying to fund Yes, I think they go hand in hand really well and I know the working lands enterprise board I sit on that and gus's stead Um is also doing with just a bit of funding that's remaining for the fiscal year is um Is about to make awards similar with similar purposes But not a ton of money. I'm sure Thanks I guess I would just go back to senator pierce's question and just say that From my experience both with our development rights program and our viability program A key feature and I understand the committee's Discussion has been taken in a way that nobody intended has been always Willing by or willing seller Somebody wants to make a change and we support them in that change or improvement in their businesses and One of senator hardy's constituents said to me quite a long time ago when we were first beginning Our work back in the late 80s early 90s the way to work with the farm community education instead of compensation and those Things I've found are continue to be true Having said all that there are The realities of 11 and 12 dollar milk is going to Make some people think especially those who are near retirement. Anyway I want a graceful exit and we are going to have a landscape that continues to be I think at risk in terms of its use for ag production And I also think and this goes back to the joint hearing you had We will have an opportunity in the coming years and I know the state is going to be strapped in terms of resources To bring in federal dollars that can be used to buy down the cost of those farms And get the next generation on the farm and that will continue to be an important part of our work and I know Nancy's ever heart's been Is with us this morning and Give her a few minutes just to talk about that and Ella. I'm sure we'll also chime in but We had farmland access work to do before this crisis hit I'm sure it will discourage some people who will just want a graceful exit And we'll have some opportunities ahead of us To help get the next generation on the farm in the not too distant future Welcome Nancy. Good to see you Good morning. Um, I will uh nice to be with you all to see you My internet is not wonderful where I live and particularly this morning. So Um, I'll see how this works. I may have to go back to it seems to work a little better when I'm not sharing the video But we'll so you'll have to let me know if you if I freeze up or if you can't hear me But yeah, I I you know Gus said at the beginning this this pandemic has really kind of I think highlighted for all of us the importance of food I mean, it's such a basic necessity and we know vermonas right now Some of them are having trouble accessing Just enough for them and their families to eat We're all like sort of shopping in a different way and thinking about food differently and You know, I'm so grateful that to live in a state where we have a we've all done together so much work on building a strong network And a strong food system Um, but there's obviously a lot more that we need to do and the most you know foundational thing to growing food Obviously is the land that Gus was just speaking about and You know, we are a leading state in the farmland protection We've done with your support for more than 30 years You know, we've protected, you know about 20 percent of our farmland about 14 percent of that's with or so With the hb funding so that's awesome But that means there's you know 80 percent that is At risk at a time when we know there's going to be a lot of transitions of farms and so You know, it's it's the long-term view that We've had for so for so long and it it it takes a lot of effort and work and it's sort of project by project, but It is one of the most compelling ways we can help either dairy's exit or Transfer to the next generation or to a new form of production or new farmers get on the land And you know over half of the projects that we're funding with the sale of development rights are to to facilitate some sort of transfer And we're also really lucky that when we're doing that, you know through the viability program and this really strong And collaborative network we have in Vermont We can not only help farmers access land, but they get the support and the technical assistance That el has been talking about you know to help you know help a new business Get off to a good start or grow Um, you know get the financial planning that they need um And I think you know, it's important to think about we're we're kind of vermont is the bread basket of new england Really, there's a new england food vision that you've probably heard about you know 50 percent by 2060 And to accomplish that vision in new england, we would need to not only keep all the land We already have in farming. We'd have to add two million acres And I you know, I think Yeah That would be uh Order right now for us, but You know, I think there's never been a time when when I have been more appreciative of having local food Having a freezer full of my own beef or you know, a lot of people want to grow more garden So it's you know It's not just about vermont We really supply a lot of food to the region and those have always been really important and strong markets for us And we know the demand is really You know surging in the last month or two there as well And and we have a very strong pipeline right now the demand to sell development rights is is really high We we've got seven applications right now on hand You know, we've spent all our fy 20 money We're gonna we have a board meeting on friday and we're gonna take three of those projects Forward with a very conditional commitment of funds Because these projects take a very long time to develop. It's complicated to sell real estate and to get contracts Between you know In most of our projects, it's not just a contract to sell the easement. It's also to sell the land And we have as guth said we you know, if we the seven projects we have on hand The requests are 1.35 million of just state dollars, but that would leverage 1.6 million of federal and other dollars So we have a really great track record Of leveraging federal dollars for this work and while there's maybe some uncertainty around state dollars now right now There is robust money at the federal level to conserve farms You know, we're in the process of applying right now There's 3.5 million that we know we can get in vermont in federal fy 20 Dollars, but we have to match it 50 percent. That is our challenge And we yeah, so I wanted to just mention like one of the projects Well, one other thing that I know guss has also mentioned is when we're conserving farmland we're really taking a holistic view at the Resource and we're really thinking about enhancing water quality um, we The ag agency does a site visit on every farm we're conserving to you know, make sure the farm is in good standing if there's issues We are bringing technical assistance to the farm Might be through nrcs or through the bmp program at the ag agency or something to make improvements that are needed You know, there's often a connection especially when it's a transfer with the viability program so it's kind of a Big picture view of how we can not just protect the farm but also sort of bring it to the next level in terms of the operation but also in terms of The environmental protection, so we're including surface water protections riparian buffers or wetland protection zones that are permanent when we're protecting farmland so we're you know, we're also making real headway on water quality while we're keeping good land and agriculture and One example, you know, I did My first and only site visit since we went virtual went virtual to by myself A week ago to a farm in Fletcher, which is one of the ones that's coming to our board this week You know, it's a beautiful property the king dairy that the family has owned for a long time But they stopped milking in 2006. I don't know if any of you are familiar with it then um And it's been haid and it's very scenic and there is a You know relatively small operation boneyard farm to Hannah Doyle the support from her husband Have on a homestead in Bakersfield, which is not too far from here And so they they now have a contract with the king family to buy the property and move there move their family move their operation there They'll have so much more room to grow But you know, it won't be affordable without being able to sell an easement And so that's the example an example of the kind of projects that we're doing You know Hannah Doyle's got a strong business plan. She's working with the intervail center um I didn't meet her in person because of cova, but I had a great phone conversation with her She had you know demand is surging they they grow pork and chicken and veggies and they're So in some ways a silver this is a time as you know And it's an opportunity for some businesses to take advantage of the way the markets and consumer demand is changing and grow and Um, we just hope that we can you know be there to provide that sort of wraparound support That we've been talking about And that particular easement, you know, that farms a good example. There's some tributaries on the lamoille. It's like 7 000 feet They'll all have 50 foot permanent buffers So we're able to sort of get a big bang for our buck when we're we're protecting farmland and helping these new businesses um Yeah, maybe I will just leave it there for now. Hopefully You could hear me. Okay, and I didn't freeze up See if there's any questions Yeah, uh, uh, thanks nancy. Um um, sounds like even how you have to work solo In virtual, uh, you're still getting quite a lot done, uh, which is great. Um, absolutely So you're gonna You need like three and a half million to to match we we ought to get these numbers in some kind of an order So we can you know go to the right places to try to get some Um gus, you needed some earlier. You talked about the ready program Um, yeah, I'll I'll let illa just speak to that Because she and her staff manage it. I think she's got a one pager that we've sent to the to linda Um, or maybe it's a two pager On that as well and I'm happy mr. Chairman to just give you a memo that will outline You know the financial impact of the financial cost of each of these things Which ones are clearly covet related and which are just The issues as you wrestle with the state budget Yeah, um, but one other thing I just want to emphasize in terms of the state budget because I know the plan is for a skinny budget is You know, we usually We're usually We're 400 short And that those aren't dollars. They got an m after them that we know of so uh, but um Go ahead and finish Yeah, I was just gonna say I know we're gonna Do a budget for the first quarter of the year usually in the first quarter of the year We make commitments for just about our full allocation of funding for the whole year And most farmers who are seeking to sell an easement and farmers who want to get on the land as Nancy just described Have been in the process This isn't something that started 90 days before we act on it. It's usually a year or longer in the making so any Delays further delays in that Are problematic for both the seller and the buyer uh, but But maybe just to finish up uh our time with you today Ella can talk a little bit about Where the ready program is Well, there may be some questions for Nancy to I kind of jump back To a different Subject are there questions? You know pertain to Nancy's testimony No, okay, so we'll go to Ella Just gratitude. Thank you, Nancy Yeah, yeah, thanks a lot all of you uh, Ella Or um, yeah, I'm I'm gonna start just by underscoring what Nancy said and just talk just saying that We were anticipating a three-fold increase in succession projects within the viability program and and the conservation program over the next three years and We're concerned about those projects, you know, I think that's what you just heard but just just saying we were all working towards ramping up the rate of assisting in Whether it's with the conservation tools the viability tools were often both Helping those those foreign land succession Projects Be successful and that's you know, it's just it's a big area that we're really concerned about We're gonna still keep working on it and and like Nancy and Gus said sometimes that just this just Prolongs the time but it also backs up our pipeline on the conservation side really seriously And we can put some of those on land at risk so Um, you know, you all know that but I just want to say just there's there's a lot of folks who are working on the Succession work from the intervail center to vlt to vhcb and and beyond Can I just ask a clarifying question Ella? You all were anticipating a tripling. I think is what you just said in the next several years What uh There i'm gonna guess in the next three years No one on the appropriations committees promise to triple your budgets So so can you just help me understand how state funds are involved there? Sure. Yeah, um, so I know that for the romant land trust they nick will say they did about 100 projects that related to to succession Ownership transition over the past 10 years and they anticipate doing about 100 over the next three years They've raised some funds to make some of those projects more workable In particularly when the vlt may need to hold the land Neuro ownership long enough to get it conserved and then have have a the oncoming Owner have the capacity and financial capacity to to to purchase the property but also Nancy will tell you that But i'll tell you in her words that more and more percentage higher and higher percentage of vhcb Conservation dollars have been going for farmland conservation dollars have been going to situations that that are a transition so where maybe you know 10 or 20 years ago We're far land transitions now. It's close to it's about 50 a half of our conservation projects are succession Are facilitating a Ownership transition and similar on the viability front where we used to do like 10 of our Projects within the viability long term business planning projects were transfer plans Now it's about a third and and and growing So we're using a higher portion. The need is shifting and more and more projects that come to us are around succession And we're trying to raise more funding. We had a three-year usda A project that will end this coming fall that supported probably about a one and a half FTEs between the intervail center and and the Vermont land trust And we're going to lose that funding but we've already applied for another three years From the FRDP usda program and we're looking at other resources including eda and other federal resources So we are also seeking increased resources to do that And talking with allison easement at the agency about how we can increase the viability capacity over time with any state funds So it's an ongoing conversation with state and local state and federal partners Yeah, any other questions on farmland conservation roast Yeah, thanks. Um, I actually have a question back. I I looked at the survey that um, you sent um, and um It's it's it's good and everything, but it's very immediate It's about what do you need right now? And I think a lot of our conversations were what do you What do farmers need moving out of this crisis and into? um, making sure that their business is more resilient and sustainable For the longer term post covet whenever the heck post covet maybe So my concern with I mean, I think what you did right now is absolutely right for this moment in time But I think based on my understanding of our conversations that we were looking much more toward You know the the long longer term or at least the middle term So wondering if that's that gathering that type of information so we know moving forward out of this crisis What people are going to need would be helpful Yeah, that makes sense. I think, you know, a lot of us in the technical assistance world really talk about sort of immediate response work and then recovery work and recovery asking questions about recovery period is Like you're saying it's a longer term perspective Could be months could be years for some businesses. So um Yeah, we could easily we will need to adapt our program over the coming month to look more at the recovery period So we could work on a format a form that a version of this that was aimed at that longer period And get that to you if that's helpful so that we could coordinate on that or just depending on where you go with the work That you're doing we're happy to partner on that Yeah, I think that may be helpful just to for us to be able to say, you know, here are some resources Fill out this survey so we understand your recovery needs So that our ag sector food forest sector is more resilient moving out of this I think that I think that's the conversation My understanding anyway that we've been having and so looking toward the future a little bit more Obviously, we have to focus on the here in the now right now, but Looking toward the future. What can we do and what will the needs be? Yeah You know in the next big question Did somebody ask a question? No um anything else uh committee for for any of the BHCB crew Well, I was going to give a quick overview on the ready program for you Yeah No, go go for it Thanks. Sorry to keep you That's a pretty um pretty positive deal So uh tell us uh about it Ella great and um I mean, this has been a really great program to run. Thank you for creating it and and giving and You know creating this opportunity for BHCB to get more involved in community and economic development projects with municipalities and businesses and rural communities It's it's it's been a really feel good program because it's been very successful And a lot of folks have identified. Yes. This was a gap and this was a real need to have help With these kinds of federal and other kinds of complex applications when they're small municipalities or small businesses and don't necessarily have the capacity or understanding of the Resources that are out there. So, you know, the short story is like you said earlier with $75,000 a year We've been helping, you know about a dozen businesses or communities Apply for some really a broad range of important projects for those communities and Sometimes it's been a small town that just doesn't have the capacity and it doesn't have enough hours on staff to really Work on an application but bringing on bringing in some federal dollars for a trail project or a downtown project is going to make a big difference When we've been leveraging It's leveraged less in the middle of our third year at this point We've secured over three and a half million dollars in grant funding or I think something like 25 to 30 projects. So that's been really successful On average, I think the projects have resulted in about $205,000 on average for each project and and Right now we're seeing a shift in our ready work to some COVID related activities particularly looking at resilience community economic resilience projects looking at broadband access Looking at adult education programs that different communities want to explore We're helping some rural downtown retailers look at for looking for funding first of COVID post COVID recovery work and assisting farmers with Applying to federal funds to help scale up or change markets particularly through the value added producer grant program at USTA Rural Development Um We would be interested in investing in this program if there was more funding for it So the memo that we sent over to linda yesterday afternoon Is a two-page description of what we could do if we had $200,000 for a fiscal year And we would really double the impact but also be able to provide a wider variety of assistance to particularly municipalities and community projects Including developing fundraising plans not just applying for funds and doing a lot more education and outreach So that we could provide some base level Education and assistance around what are the resources that are out there that are available for different kinds of community and economic development projects We think with the $200,000 investment annually We could be seeing four to five million dollars of resources secured for projects on an annual basis So that's a really short overview. You have both that two-pager memo from from VHCB as well as a two-page annual report that was submitted to you in january About the past work that we've been doing and it includes a list of the projects from this past year Yeah, I don't think linda has sent that out to us as of yet Um So, you know, we we haven't or I didn't see it. Did any of the rest of you get a copy of that? It's on our web page. I believe Bobby pardon It's on our web page Oh, well I'm lucky to get onto my ipad. So I Not making a judgment just saying Your iPad can use the web page by the way Yeah, well boy, you know, you're never too old to learn, right? So, uh, thanks a lot for that l are there questions for for ellen regards to uh The ready program and yeah as we move Into the next fiscal year We're going to need All these little where we make a small appropriation but make it so it'll generate a lot of extra money for for everybody in vermont To take advantage of and There's not too often we get a deal Where you can spend a couple a couple three hundred thousand and generate four or five millions so In the communities they take that money that get it to spend it to keep people working You know those guys at accd should be funding We should take a little bit of their money and put it into this because they're the ones they're supposed to be Doing all this and they you know, I'm sure they work as hard as they can but Um, it takes many hands to get all the jobs done Um, so anyways, is there anything else? Any other questions? If if not, uh, I want to thank your goss and and uh Hopefully you you send a note off to uh to jane and You know if if we had a list Of these different little pots of money that you need and You could use and what it, you know, just a short one line or what it would be for and and get that to uh To over to a prop so it would I think it would be most helpful Uh senator, I will have something In your hands and in jane's tomorrow On that subject. It'll be very brief I just do want to as you leave put an exclamation point on Ella's comments about ready and remind you that that is A program that's for towns of five thousand or less. So to the extent that you've been focused on Rural communities. That's whom we're serving Through it and the last thing I just wanted to mention which we've talked about in the past Whenever you get to a house Get to an ag housekeeping bill Uh, is that we're looking for a slight change in our statute just that will make us eligible As a nonprofit for a couple federal programs. We're not currently eligible to apply for And I think you suggested that we work with michael grady on that And we'll continue to do that That that should be coming our way. I think if it didn't Get moved yesterday. I think by by the end of the week it should be coming over We've just got an email that it's been released or it's about to be released to us and also that our soil amendment bill will advance Thank you all very much today for your time And please if there are other questions shoot them off to us and We appreciate your thoughts. We we learn from you and We know have close yard of your constituents Really appreciate your Insight about how we can make our programs better Especially in this difficult time Thank you. Thanks a lot. Thanks a lot and We'll stay in touch Okay So Back on to our over Ag enhancement bill Um So, uh, what uh, you know, that was a good discussion in regards to our our thoughts and and helping Not only farmers of today, but it's moving our ag sector forward But what what are you any any thoughts while we were talking about this on where Where you felt we should be going? I know We we've got to change directions from What people anticipated where we were going? I don't know how they read our minds like that, but but anyways, um um, you know The war isn't over. We just you know got a battle here in a battle there and and But I think I think we've You know, I've come to a little bit of a census on where we Where we know where we want to get to it's just how we're going to get there and uh Ruth had a suggestion of doing You know a little survey or having a A fill out paper. Uh, I don't know any of you have other ideas and and uh And do we need to load that in I think it's probably a good idea to have Something in that envelope to help I mean, this is to help people. I mean it isn't to Try to change anybody or force them or anything like that. So Um, so what do what do you guys think? well, it strikes me that those guys Are doing a lot of the work that we're sort of wanting more of um, and so, uh You know some of this planning work Uh, I I think the idea of a survey Or some kind of uh part of the application of Of getting some measurement of where people are at Makes a lot of sense as is maybe would come across as less directive Which none of us were trying to be directive. We were trying to understand and and protect sort of the The public investment we're considering right here into the future. I think Um, but I really am struck and I think For me the strategy across the board with our coven reaction is is Enhancing programs that are proven to work already Doing You know in the in the region that we're wanting and needing more of Michael tells me some of the the planning Reaction, uh, the discussion we're having today could well be covid funds eligible Not the land acquisition obviously But some of those micro grants some of the planning and the capacity work so to me I I would Pivot just a little bit on the dairy money And I would also try to to lump More funding for the Relief work that that ella was describing And put that right in the package if I think or that's the first reaction I have I Well, I I kind of like round numbers. Um You know these odd numbers It's a lot easier if they're rounded up Brian Thank you, mr. Chair. I'm looking at the draft And on page three I think it's page three Yeah, page three lines eight through ten. I would like to see deleted This is the one that I think some people could read that as making a string attached to getting the The grant and I don't I don't think we want to do that Um, Michael had it in in blue. I think was it blue or Yeah, it was blue Yeah, are you guys you guys have a colored printer? All right What sections are you talking about Brian? this is in section Now I have to go back up section one right And it's on page three Lines eight nine and ten I think we all agreed that The farm should be actively producing milk and being good standing with both the agency of ag and natural resources Yeah, but I think the the one right after that Is the one that caused some concern with people that They had to agree to have people come on and Kind of have a survey done and all that sort of stuff in order to get the money So that's just my thought I think if we just delete it we can reword it but I would I would not like to see that in there because I think that that puts a string on the on the grant So that that's the language that I had said let's put a pin in that and get back to it because I was With it as well Yeah, and I would agree with Brian and this was what I was talking about in terms of do we want to instead Say hey, here are some resources. Here's a questionnaire. So we understand what your needs are You know, here are some opportunities for you to If you need assistance And really put it more as a conversation access to resources And that's why what I was talking with Ella trying to get them to think about a survey forward looking In the meeting term kind of thing But that isn't that section two that We're on That you're on Brian No, it's it's section it's section One and two because section two is that response team And section one has that as a condition of in order to qualify for assistance You have to agree to allow within 18 months A farm feasibility assessment assessment to be conducted by the response team So it is Is that under b michael section? Yes, yes okay, so b would be Would be struck How far Well, I think you still want them to be in good standing Yeah, I think you still want them to be actively producing milk Yeah And then if you want to incorporate senator hardy's recommendation You could replace the farm feasibility assessment with they shout complete Some survey, I don't know if you want to use the vhcb survey or if you want a different survey regarding their The pressures that they're facing or the needs that they need assistance with or services Well or when and information about how to access that I think it would be wise to Okay bhcb's Language that they've already developed Maybe add if a few folks the committee thinks we should add a a few other things to it and we ought to even list bhcb's farm viability program and their phone number so That if people feel comfortable and need feel they need to call They'll have the info Ruth or chris. I didn't see which one had to hand up first ladies before gents chris Thank you. I got that advantage on this committee. Um, I'm wondering if we might want to actually instead of Making filling out a survey requirement for the recipient that we instead make Creating a survey and a list of resources, etc as a requirement for the ag agency to include in the The information that the farmer gets with the check And and I also am thinking that we might want to do this the same for the other program We're thinking about the the one the non-dairy program. So all farmers get the same You know information and resources and survey or whatever Saying that the ag agency has to work with bhcb or work with farm to plate or work with whomever Because the the other thought I had was farm to plate may already have something in the bag for this kind of thing too Not reinventing the wheel, but Why aren't you aren't you gonna make it a requirement again if you do it that way? I would make it voluntary, but I wouldn't put any strings attached Oh, no require the agency to create one or have one that's included And make it voluntary for the farmer to fill it out or whatever.  It's it's gentlemen time now we had By the way, we got to stun it all cocky some 14 minutes Yeah, if we could have a few minutes break. I'm sure we'd all be grateful, but it strikes me There's a few different things. I I think we clearly want to have uh Information so you you get some kind of application because you you Indicate you want it as a farmer in there you would get a list of resources But I do think that the application You know, you're gonna have to have some kind of application and I think in there you do want to survey That it could be you know Based on I haven't looked yet at what we were just sent this morning But it would be sort of Do you have a a succession plan? You know or or depending on where you're at in the farm's life. Is there a succession plan? Are you interested in Working with people that do this, you know, some of those basic informations. Just think about it this way rather than Us compelling that they have this meeting. We at least come back with the information of Here's the hundred farms that are interested in the meeting that we were all talking about a week ago That to me that this is not onerous this is you put this next to the name of the farm in the address and You know five to ten questions about um You know the the future of ag here's here's where I come from on this There are people who will rightly say Ag has been dairy has been struggling for 30 years And you guys are taking public dollars and helping them out yet again That there there is a reasonable question that people are asking there and so I just want to be able to say Dairy is important in vermont And here's where we are recognizing some of the volatility in that economy And our attempt to shore it up and to have a robust ag sector For decades to come because we are investing public dollars right now I don't want to interrupt your train of thought but That would be the way to start this off. You know, we're not requiring you We're here to try to help you and here's a few You know questions that we need to hear the answers on would you please? That's right Build this out and be positive About it and not not say I think that's what about you guys? Could you eat go for that? Sure It still feels like a requirement to me Well, I think that if it's part of the application process, I I don't have a problem with that I think you know, it's it's you know, five to ten questions on a survey Um, just to sort of assess what the needs may be I mean, if we're sending them a check for $50,000, it doesn't seem like that's Too onerous and and really I think what's important is getting the information about What do people what do farmers need and that would maybe help guide us and what we might do next with I don't I don't It's a way of helping avoid problems in the future by better preparing than we are right now I think we can make this Into something that would be positive and not a requirement You know, would you please fill this out? Be polite about it and you know, it Maybe maybe we'll get some fill it out If somebody feels their hunky dory and things are rosy and and life is great Then they may not fill it out But I mean, it would be great information for us and goss and an evening ag agency should have to Know where we need to go Yeah, we're not Everybody are growing veggies. So we we don't know all the ins and outs and where Always where we might be able to help And I'd love to hear from the people who think everything's hunky dory, by the way Well, we'll know if they go out to survey And they think they're fine We could definitely have that as an option hunky dory That's a new term Anything else we got 10 minutes Yeah, I'd like to see me on about a horse before the yeah four minutes. I'll talk to so like You're into equines Yeah I would just I would just like to say very briefly that we have not really talked about including the hunger programs and what we've put together so far And I think we should at least we mentioned food insecurity all over while we're talking about it But the bill itself doesn't really mention any of those things so We're gonna have another bill that we're gonna want to move forward and so I I'd like to get this dairy stuff kind of tied down so we could get it Into that supplemental budget and they might get their money before snow flies you know and and So if we can get I still think we ought to keep working On a bill to advance either on its own Or add it to the miscellaneous bill that we're going to have coming our way On food security and and and the uh all that good stuff I would like to continue with this full Package at least the first three items the the dairy piece the non-dairy piece and the migrant farm worker piece as one package And I think we're really close on all that language And it would just a matter of us getting half an hour with michael to to get it final Yeah, uh, maybe hopefully friday we could Take some of that time just for the committee Um Oh, let's see. What is my schedule here? We're on a 10 30 I'm trying Yeah, because I well if we aren't going to do floor time or you guys don't have a side meeting We might be able to start that a little bit earlier That would work Would that work for you guys? Yeah Um, I do think we have bills on the floor, but uh, but they may not be beefy. I don't know On friday and ruse On friday, though, you think no, I don't think so. No, no, I thought you guys had gov ups Anyway, we'll find out more in the all senate call in in five minutes. Yeah Ruth be thinking about your migrant worker bill because that's uh Half a million general fund, right? Yeah, so I I don't know what if you've talked to jane what the situation is so It's rough Yeah, I'm sure it is Yeah, uh michael So I just wanted to note in california. They turn that program into a public private partnership So that they use the state funds to leverage down private funds To to pay for a good percentage of it So if you're concerned about getting money From the general fund, maybe you turn that into a public private partnership where You create a fund you put some state money into it But then you allow private entities to to contribute to it in order to provide assistance To farm workers It was the california was five hundred dollars per person too. It was yeah You want to have michael do a little draft up of that ruse and See what it looks like or Yeah, michael if you have ideas for that i'm I don't know that we'd be able to leverage that kind of money here in vermont because but I don't I would do it like I did the gmo food fight fund where you just put money into it And then you allow people to donate into it. You don't say that there's going to be a specific amount That's going to come from private funding. You just allow for the private funding to go into it And then the program gets to spend up to whatever is available in the fund So you may not be getting the money out to to the full universe of eligible applicants But you're basically leveraging some private funding in order to to run the program Let me think about it and see let me ask a few people what their thoughts in terms of The viability of making that happen if it's the option we have then i'd rather have something than nothing But let let me think about it and then i'll okay. Thanks michael Yeah, you're catching on rose That's that's a way That's a way to go. Can we leave it? Can we leave it there for now? Yeah. Yeah, we see on the floor Look or there's a caucus Yeah, so Thanks a lot guys. I think we had a good meeting For sure. Thanks, pop