Good evening. I want to call this meeting of the Durham City Council to order Certainly want to welcome everyone here tonight both those who are here with us in the council chambers and also those who are watching at television we're glad to see you and Want to warmly welcome you here tonight I'm gonna first ask if everyone would please join me in a moment of silent meditation Thank you. And now we have a I think special tonight Cub Scout pack 451 is with us tonight. Did I get that right guys? Great, and they're there from Westminster Presbyterian Church, and they're gonna lead us in the pledge to the flag So will you all please rise and lead us in the pledge to flag? Thank you Legends to the flag of the United States of America and to the Republic for which it stands One nation under God in the visible with liberty and justice for all Thank you. Well done Good job scouts. We appreciate you all being here tonight You look great in your scout uniforms, and we want to thank your scout leaders who are here with you as well and parents So well done. Good job Madam clerk, would you please call the roll? Mayor shul here mere pro tem Johnson here councilmember Alston here councilmember caballero here councilmember Freeman Councilmember Middleton here councilmember Reese has requested and received a motion for an excused absence Thank you very much madam clerk Before we go to announcements by the council, I believe we have a couple of other excused absence coming up And I think we'll go ahead and take action on those Councilmember Freeman and Councilmember Middleton are going to Need excuse absences for this coming Thursday's work session. Is that correct? Correct sir and councilmember Reese as well And I think he already has his absence So I'll accept a motion to give excuse absences to councilmember Freeman and councilmember Middleton who'll be at conferences This coming Thursday's work session So moved second moved and seconded that we Give these excused absences madam clerk. Will you please open the vote? Please close the vote the motion passes 6-0. Thank you, madam clerk We'll now have announcements by members of the council councilmember Freeman. Oh, thank you. I Thank you for the Just a moment. I Wanted to take a moment and just say that I'm enjoying this week an advanced leadership training with the school of government and swell, which is why I won't be here on Thursday and Also noting that with the Durham youth Internship project program. I wanted to make sure that folks are aware that we have Up to a thousand students. Actually, we're hoping to fill fill slots for the world They'll interview slots for over a thousand students and I want to encourage folks in the community to take part and Actually being a part of the interviews and filling on filling in the slots to interview the students As a part of the work for this community getting our kids prepared For their future careers and work that they did they can do now Well any part that you could play in the work that they do now would be helpful And now there was one more Thank you very much councilman. Thank you Mayor pro tan. Thank you, mr. Mayor said a couple things I wanted to mention on our consent agenda item number three community safety task force bylaws I've been contacted by a few community members who are part of writing the proposal for the community safety task force last Year who would like to give feedback on the bylaws But haven't been able to do it before tonight and would like to request that we postpone that item to our next work session on Thursday and also would just like to appreciate the Community Development Department and the folks at legal aid for the eviction diversion Contract that we will be approving tonight also as part of our consent agenda We've been slowly increasing the amount of funding that we're giving to legal aid over the last couple of years to help them Represent residents in Durham who are facing evictions, but we know that even with This increase in funding that they are only going to be able to represent about 10% of the eligible tenants who are facing eviction in our city so just wanted to both Express my excitement for the fact that we're increasing the funding but also acknowledge that there's still a great need out there And we need to continue to think about ways to To help tenants in our city who are who are facing evictions. Thank you. Thank you madam mayor pro tan Councilmember Middleton. Thank you. Mr. Mayor. Good evening, sir. And good evening call of you and to my colleagues I want to thank my colleagues for the gracious excused absence for this Thursday. I'll be Flying to San Francisco to attend a conference in Silicon Valley and National League of Cities a sponsored trip To Silicon Valley to meet with tech and corporate leaders there and to find out ways we can leverage Some of the incredible innovation in Silicon Valley here locally to fight homelessness using technology to fight homelessness and deal with issues of equity And sustainability, so I look very forward to going out there and milking them for all of that brilliance Out there and seeing if we can bring anything back to our city and use it here and our work I was going to mr. Mayor Introduce a brilliant young political science student today. We onboarded an intern that I've hired to work with me Brilliant young student from North Carolina Center University. Ms. Imani Johnson, so I look forward to introducing her She couldn't be here tonight But I'm excited about that and look forward to introducing her to the city and to this group in the coming days Finally, Mr. Mayor, I wanted to go on record tonight about an issue that has captured the attention of many of us in the city of late Not too long ago. We received some national attention Regarding an op-ed that appeared in USA Today Pinned by my distinguished colleague the mayor pro tem and an elected colleague are from st. Louis In that op-ed a characterization was made about our city Durham, North Carolina is one of the poorest performing cities in the country when it comes to use of force Regarding our police department that characterization was Pursuant to I should say subsequent to the use of a tool Which in my assessment was not very scientific It was basically inviting us to do word searches on some of our policies and if we didn't have precise phrase ology We were dinged by it. I want to go on record strongly repudiating and rejecting that characterization Of this city and of our city's police department as well I do that as one who has worked in tandem with Folk in the city that have worked incredibly hard to usher in Transformation to the culture of our police department. I also want to say I know that many were Fascinated with the response from our city manager To our mayor pro tem you usually don't get to see us talk like that to each other publicly But I do want to say that I think the city manager's response was direct It was forceful. It was factual and it was done in a way that did not cross the line of insubordination So I want to affirm and associate myself with the city manager's comments But I want to go a little further because colleagues. I think it's important that we as the elected leadership of the city Go on record And make clear to the citizenry and residents of the city and our neighbors and friends That we are while we vote 98% of the time the same way we are not a monolithic council I want us to be clear At least I want to be clear that that characterization of our police department does not square I believe with the work that's been done. Let me give you a little bit of intellectual framework For me how I approach this work I don't think that there's any institution in America Particularly when it comes to black people that does not need to be deconstructed Renegotiated or dealt with in some way if everything was left in its original setting in America We'd be in trouble not just with police the police aren't exotic the criminal justice system Baseball football the Declaration of Independence the Constitution and the Statue of Liberty Everything in this country needs to be Renegotiated and deconstructed and dealt with that includes the police and cruise the includes the criminal justice system So I am well aware that we have not Come as far as we need to come in terms of Dealing with policing in America, but some things have happened in this city over the last six to seven years And I think it's important that we point that out. I believe that sitting in these seats up here makes us brand Ambassadors for our city I think that each of us up here ought to be tripping over one another Racing to defend the honor of the city and to defend the honor of this municipal workforce Not gaslight people not lie if there are things that need to be called out. We need to do that but facts matter and truth matters and The fact is that this department's use of force numbers have been trending downward That's the fact The wholesale I believe the wholesale appropriation of nationalized talking points Localizing them without nuance and without context. I believe is irresponsible and I believe it's damaging to the morale of our workforce We've got some work to do but work has been done I believe the op-ed does a couple of things one. I think it mischaracterizes our police department, too I think it does not show the proper deference and respect to the incredible work That activists have done in this city over the years to transform the culture of this police department That work has been real and it's been impactful and it's empirically observable. I don't think the op-ed took that into account I also don't take it takes into account the remarkable and I believe transformative leader that we have in Seryln Davis. What has she been doing the last few years? She's been here She's been making an impact and she's been working to further transform the culture of this department I don't think that op-ed Accurately reflected that work and I think that it's done damage to the morale of our city This department is not the same department. It was 10 years ago Do we have work to do? Of course. Of course we do but facts matter and truth matters This is a nationally accredited police department with a transformative leader And I consider Seryln Davis as transformative a leader as I do Satana DeBerry and Clarence Burkhead all of them are progressive leaders bringing new ideas and fresh innovations to areas That have done damage to us historically in America and need reform and we have leaders that are doing that work And I think we would adequately reflect that so I want to go on record tonight respectfully distancing and and quite honestly repudiating The words in that op-ed about our city and about our police department and also recommit myself Hopefully with thousands of you in the city to continuing to do the work that we need to do and no needs to be done To continue to transform the culture Of this department facts matter. Thank you. Mr. Mayor Thank You councilmember any further announcements Freeman also Want to associate myself with those comments and making sure that it's clear that I also do not appreciate the way in which this meant the Taking an op-ed as the opportunity to kind of highlight the issues when you're on the council is not Healthy and I just want to make sure that we're cognizant of how we do that and make sure that we move forward in a better way So don't I agree with a lot of points around how we need to get there But there are national issues that we have to get to and I think here in Durham We can do a better job than this We can do a better job than just pointing a finger and I know that What has happened in the last two years that I've been here has been unfortunate and really hard to handle I also Can't agree more with councilman councilmember Middleton in that our chief and our city manager have been working really hard to shift the way that things work here and noting that there is such a disproportionality in all of the matters and not just Criminal legal or what have you but also in housing and in economic development and in you know So many other areas We have work to do and I'd like to think that we can come up with solutions and not just be about the problem And so I'm along those lines. I wanted to take a moment and thank staff I know that um, I'm on the Jordan Lake one water alliance and it has been raised a number of times just how great our staff has been as a resource to many other cities or many other communities around us regionally and Supporting the work to move us forward Recognizing that water has no boundaries and I just wanted to make sure I take a moment and thank staff for that I know I have a tendency to be hard on staff in some situations But it's also important to make sure you acknowledge when staff is doing the right thing. Thank you. Thank you Any other announcements by members of the council, all right, if not, we'll move on to Priority items by the city manager. Mr. Manager any priority items tonight. Good evening, Mr. Mayor members of council have no priority items this evening Madam attorney Mr. Mayor members of city council Madam clerk good evening everyone the city clerk's office has no items. Thank you very much Well now move on to the consent agenda This agenda is made up of items that have been previously worked on by the council and can be approved by a single vote of the council tonight Any item can be pulled from the consent agenda by any member of the public or a member of the council And if it is pulled will be held to the end of the meeting for consideration So I'll be reading the consent agenda items item 3 community safety task force bylaws and madam Mayor pro-town you pull this item and it will be to be considered On what day work session this Thursday, but the work session is coming Thursday. Thank you. Thank you, mr. Mayor Item for grant contract with legal aid of North Carolina to provide representation to city of Durham residents facing eviction this item Was pulled from the agenda by someone who I don't see a name But I see an address which is the same as another address here Waldo finner mr. Finner. Are you here? Did you pull that agenda item from the agenda item for sir? Okay, we'll hold that to the end of the meeting. Thank you Item 5 Shared active transportation report in an ordinance revision and this item was also pulled by a resident Mimi Kessler We will hold this to the end of the meeting as well Item 6 bid report December 2019 Item 7 installment financing contract series 2020 fleet item 8 land lease with global sign signal acquisitions LLC 3510 Sandy Creek Drive item 9 amendment to consultant contract for citywide classification and compensation study non-sworn Item 10 grant from Duke University health system. Do you HS office of community and local government relations item 12? Environmental systems research Institute software maintenance agreement item 13 participatory budgeting PB agreement to fund technology for Durham public schools Those are the items on the consent agenda and with the exception of items 3 4 and 5 I will now ask for a motion that we approve the consent agenda Second the move in a second that we approve the consent agenda madam clerk. Please open the vote Please close the vote The motion passes 6-0. Thank you All right, uh, we'll now move on to our next agenda item Which is mcdougal terrace public comments? I have several people signed up to speak And i'm going to call them in the order in which they signed up First will be miss wilma liverpool miss liverpool welcome Please come to the podium and you have three minutes. Thank you for being here Good afternoon to the city council and everyone else here This issue with mcdougal terrace is what I call an issue that must have answers and the answers need to be done now But first of all, I want the residents to understand Who we are Who they are and we have to learn our history and how this has come about And I have what I call a Y factor wh y When you're asking hard questions and someone gives you an answer Just Ask but why is that the answer and continue back until there is no other answer and you see from which it comes My thing is why is mcdougal terrace still viable in 2020? Is it money that's been kept and stolen from our community that hasn't been passed down to the descendants? It's not a new problem This for that community has been going on like 67 years And people are just being put over and over and over again With almost no legal way to get out What psychological intense healing has ever been given to our community in the past Everybody else's community Oh, let's provide some healing for them. But we've never had that as an item As breathing carbon monoxide interfered with academic success of children Is there anyone checking on that or is it we just don't care these are People in poverty Are your and our basic needs being met on a daily basis? Can we live with dignity? When poverty is forced upon you it changes The dynamic of how you're seen Do we have clean air? Do we have healthy food? Do we have safe neighborhoods? And what I really got Really ticked off about was to hear On the news media a reporter who says These people are needy and in need My thing is no they just haven't been given what is theirs to get themselves to where they need to be Where does racism fit in it fits in from the top down You and me We are equal to anyone We're just less financially profitable The bible says love god do justice That means correct What is not right and don't Put charity as a band-aid on it that this is something you did and you're responsible for it Thank you. Thank you. Ms. Liverpool Next we're here from mr. Waldo finner And following mr. Finner will be ashleigh canady And then uh lasagna oramans Welcome mr. Finner. You also have three minutes. All right. Give me ladies and gentlemen Some of you will love me. Some of you will hate me. I don't want to talk about the race issue at mac doogle It's been a problem since i've been here in 1995 Mayor bill was here patrick baker was here Now we have a city manager who's here the very same city manager who wants to do a two percent food tax To build a museum like the ballpark and claim that black folks don't support it Well, black folks can't afford to pay seven dollars for a beer or five dollars for a hot dog We don't have those kind of jobs. So i'm not going to discuss all that stuff there But i do want to point to blame And you are part of the problem You've been here long enough to know better I am sick and tired of black folks being the ones who get the short end of the stick You've given with the 15 million dollars since 2015 Does that include the seven million dollars that you gave beforehand? So now you talk about a total of 21 million dollars Where is our money? You all appointed the commissioners at mac doogle And you allowed them to give this man scott a raise he did jack And now you got the nerve to sit up here and tell us that you're not accountable Yes, you are you are very accountable The op-ed that miss johnson did was right on point I'm a living example of police corruption I've been in the same house since 1995 they knocked on my door talking about drug dealer And I worked hard They called nigga queer faggot the whole damn nine yards To get what i've got You sent neighborhood improvement out there to us But you didn't say neighborhood improvement to mac doogle Now you won't give five hundred thousand dollars To legal aid to fight evictions if you can't pay your rent you can't pay your rent If I got a mortgage five hundred dollars, why would I let somebody say in my praise who can't afford to pay the rent You waste the money that we have given for taxes And you want to give it to legal aid whose art should be funded by the state That five hundred dollars could have gone somewhere To mac doogle lower property tax some of that next year, but yet and still You chose Who was it but at that time the bill of police department 50 million dollars And now you're trying to tell us you don't have no concern of it's not your problem anymore But it is Every last one of you was at that to hear that time should be in jail But what you did was dehumanizing It was to put people's lives in jeopardy why you separate and collect your paycheck Why we have to pay a higher property tax for you to give our money to people who should not have earned that check in the beginning The first thing you should have done what's called mr. Scott be investigated and removed from that position. Thank you, mr. Fenner I Feel from Ashley canady Miss canady welcome. You have three minutes Um, I feel personally like we're still beating a dead horse This situation is not getting no better We're going into almost two months now In a hotel and As you can see mr. Mayor you went with us to the hotels and how Crisis are real at these hotels Our children are not safe at these hotels. You've seen it yourself.  What else can be done by people This enough is enough Mr. Scott just told us our families might be in hotels to march first That is unacceptable And we already have three hosts hotels saying that they're not renewing Newing nothing else those residents have to go Because they're losing business because our residents are staying there So how many people are going to be willing to open up their homes and start letting residents come stay there I pay good rent from at google. I don't live there for free and I do work every day So what else can the city council do to help mr. Scott make this correct? Can y'all start renting out buildings? I mean something something has to be done because You've seen it yourself how many people have been taken out for what high blood pressure Mental illness all of this stuff because they're cooped up in one room families are being separated residents are losing their jobs Kids are missing school kids are getting up at six o'clock in the morning not getting home to eight and nine o'clock at night Can you imagine doing this for three months? And then y'all wonder why that grays are dropping and why the kids are being suspended from school Yes, kids are being suspended from school that are displaced. I have two kids right out there right now on a 10 day suspension And then they have to go to school and worry about carbon monoxide And gas leaks Come on Durham like the next time I come up here. I'm not going to be as calm because They're telling me in a week that I'm gonna have to be in the hotel too Because they're turning off power for five to seven days and residents are about to lose everything in their refrigerators Residents are told to come back and clean their homes up so they can come in and and bug spray and all the other stuff Like something some all this money's being wasted and the residents are still yet almost seven million dollars later sitting in the same Jacked up situation So the next time I come here i'ma turn it up a couple more notches because y'all already know How i'm moving Thank you, miss Canada Our next speaker will be uh, lasonda ormond Welcome and you also have three minutes. Thank you um Same thing. Ashley just said, um, we're being told to go back and clean the clean out of our clean out the apartments empty our refrigerators They don't No, I don't have a refrigerator fool. Thank god because I would have been upset having to throw food out that I can go and cook at the hotel Um, however, I slept by my apartment when I got off yesterday I couldn't even stay in there to do anything because I was freezing Um, we don't have any heat in there So how they want us to go in there and try to straighten up something or do anything in there? I don't know um But I will say I'll give them a positive mr. Foster miss lisa and mr. Green I will thank them For being over backwards helping me with stuff that I needed last week But other than that I am ready to go home And if they're going to take us out one hotel They need to let us know something instead of waiting until the last minute to tell us something Because I've been hearing from other people that we're having to be out on the 14th Then I'm asking people that work for dha. Nobody have a clue what they're talking about So if they're going to take us out, I need to know something before the last minute I work full time. I can't just drop what I'm doing and call out of work I have three kids to take care of Like I said before I'm almost paying market rate rent there So no, I cannot call out of work anymore. I've missed over 30 hours of work with this stuff going on Then another issue with Durham police department Maybe miss davis needs to talk to some of her officers because yes, it has been issues at the millennium However, there was an issue that transpired the other night And it wasn't a dha resident at the bar area It was another lady that felt That children shouldn't be anywhere near the bar area. They have chairs and everything else They even have the little surely simple drinks for the children She's taken pictures of a lady with her kids in the area and threatened.  You can call if you want She called the police. They pretty much told her the same thing but Before they did that they went and spoke with the bartender And she explained to them that the lady and her children hadn't done anything wrong They sat there in mind their business The police responded with was it a three or four day Stay or were they with dha? What's the difference? If her and her children weren't doing anything wrong What's the difference? This was a Caucasian lady that called the police This was a african-american mother with her three children that weren't doing anything wrong So my question is if they weren't with dha Were they going to have a problem with the lady but by them being with dha? They were just going to give her a pat on the back of her hand and tell her don't do it again So thanks to the millennium hotel They did handle that because had it been left out of the Durham police department Nothing would have been done about it because she was from dha and she didn't do anything wrong Thank you, mr. Orman Next speaker is Rafiq Zayedi. Mr. Zayedi Welcome. You have three minutes. Good evening. May I assure? I'm gonna be straight to the part um I have high respect for chief Davis high respect Because what we had in our chief low pass We caught hell That's why I understand what julian is coming from On one part We have powder files Circling around our hotels like buzzards our young ladies Who are well and all? Have to almost police Through the hotel See asking the sky don't talk about this He'd be on radio talk shows and everything else But he would not talk about the condition that we are living in in these hotels But I'm a damn if I want May I assure? You're part of the board dha boy julian you sat on the board I appeared before the board a week ago Exactly and I told him about palifolia and palafi at our hotel Where our children are And I wonder If one of our children disappeared or be harmed because you Who sat on this council are too weak Too spiny To tell chief Davis to put more security on our families You will have a price to pay also Our children deserve To be able to walk around hotel To go to snack machines To buy cookies To buy stuff To even run up and down the rails of the hotel without men Who are smoking cocaine Without men who are prostituting women in the hotel looking at our doors looking at our young girls backside We deserve better than this We deserve better than this Now you can sit up there and pray like you don't give a damn We are warning you one more time The next person we kept Looking at our young girls You got a price to pay as well as them I'm not going to carry on these hotels I'm not going to carry on these hotels I'm going to repeat it one more time Put some security On our children If one of them be harmed This city will not have any rest You will not have any peace You put them in that condition You brought Anthony Scott in here You knew that Naguga was in that condition for over 60 years But you sat there and you played game with us You played with our lives You're going to tell us that two babies Two young babies is unexplained Under suspicion condition And you want us to go for it No more than thank you tonight You're going to have to arrest me tonight If we find one more pedophile Something in those hotels You sure are going to pay a price Thank you Mr. Zaidi I'll repeat what I said at the work session Mr. Zaidi If you see someone who you think is doing something wrong You need to call 9-1-1 We didn't deal with that Thank you Mr. Zaidi Next we'll hear from David Palletta Mr. Palletta welcome you also have three minutes Good evening my name is David Palletta I would first like to address members of the McDougal Terrace community And I want you to know there are people in the community that care about you And we want to help Your pain is real Your grievances are legitimate And your cause is just Don't give up I also want to say these people are not the problem Members of council I attended last Wednesday's DHA meeting And I wanted to report what I observed There are a lot of very angry people at the meeting This is a humanitarian crisis This is Durham's Katrina You did not cause this crisis It's been in the works for many years But you are the city leaders that must solve it Second DHA approved six million for repairs This is not a reliable number No one knows how many millions it's going to cost However The DHA staff is working hard They're doing their best But they're focused on specific issues like gas and mold No one is looking at the big picture Are there other serious issues that are not being addressed As bad as this situation is it can get much worse For this reason I recommend the city hire an outside expert Who would do a complete safety study of this complex And to assure you and to assure the residents That all the known dangers are present Third, I witnessed a complete breakdown in communication And trust between DHA and the residents I'm not blaming anyone However, the city must address this loss of trust It is complex Fixing the buildings alone are not going to solve the crisis The trust issue must be corrected and restored Thank you Thank you, Mr. Palletta I will now hear from Mary Molina Miss Molina welcome. You also have three minutes Thank you Evacuated residents from McDougal Terrace continue to suffer with their entire families relegated to a single room Without a kitchen and without a play area for children who are essentially on lockdown It's outrageous when you understand that all of Durham's public housing has the same or similar issues Issues requiring the same kinds of maintenance repairs and upgrades To even come close to passing the next inspection There needs to be an investigation to determine the actions taken by the DHA board The CEO and the city council liaison During and since the last two HUD inspections Inspections that have resulted in extremely low and failing grades We need to know exactly what what has occurred to date to correct the problems that have been identified And to know precisely how the 24 life-threatening violations have been corrected Or whether they have been corrected And how much longer repairs and maintenance are really expected to take place Before residents can get back to normal lives There needs to be an auditable system in place for all maintenance requests and records of service for each apartment And it should be available and accessible to each tenant The DHA liaison should be replaced Replaced by someone who advocates and supports the residents And has their confidence in return And who will follow through with and report back to help ensure that the issues identified have been addressed Durham's public housing has been essentially unlivable by any reasonable standards for years Should they not be held to the same standard as other landlords in this city? DHA has waived rent for the residents for January and February How about tenants get refunds for all the rent they've paid? Since the last time their housing passed inspection That would at least be some amount of fairness in a situation that is totally out of their control Thank you, Ms. Molina We'll now hear from Mr. Green Mr. Green Welcome, Mr. Green. You have three minutes. All right. How y'all doing? Okay. My name is green connet green First I want you to see something This is what matt duke terris wanted to do We want to live But there's been a problem Now i'm gonna tell you something i'm a biblical man the bible said It said at nom's god in all thy ways and I shall direct thy path But when there's a problem like this is present and sometimes We do things But sometimes not intentionally, but we have a lot of Hard evil in our hearts because we don't know what we're doing is right or wrong We need understanding And see i've been over there and make matt duke terris for seven years When I moved back to dune I came to dune to look out for my sister and my mom My sister done passed Both two of them. I got one more sister that's living Now y'all got me out here at a hotel where I can't get to dune when I want to check on my last sister And then i'm gonna say just a little just a little bit. See them Matt duke terris to me Leave me to her down Because see the walls I used to do construction And whenever you put up a sheetrock you go you can fix sheetrock you could cut it and fix it and put it in another piece But whenever you're dealing with um With with with molding It don't it don't have the same texture And once you start digging into those walls You can't see the cracks, but the cracks be on the opposite side and they'll be coming up the walls Eventually they're gonna start coming down Once you start digging into the old walls, but they're old They're just like a a old person if you hear the old person right you're gonna fracture something That's just like the walls of the walls in that duke terris. They are old and they need to be new They need to be revived. They need to be new And and so that's all that's all I got to say we're gonna turn this evil right here to liberal To something right we want to live we don't want to die and we don't want to see none out None about our friends and families die either We want to live that new turns want to live. That's why we were here tonight And that's why we're coming back again Because we want to live not die because somebody's idiocy of evil or not doing what they need to do If you want to know what to really do ask somebody Ask somebody That live there ask him not just go up to him and and say oh, how you doing? No Ask somebody ask me Ask the audience ask people that live there Go out. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you, mr. Green The next we'll hear from jacklyn wagg staff mix wax mix wax staff welcome. You have three minutes Always a pleasure mrs. Mack was always a pleasure mrs.  I'm for your liaison um Like they said everything they said is true And mr. Mayor you were over there last sunday. So you went through some trauma too. I know you did so You probably need some mental health counseling right about now After what you saw But the liaison For me is it's incredible to not see her then and then when we finally see her at a meeting She doesn't open her mouth. She has no questions.  They're gonna throw a water heater in where you got to put another Tank on it there to keep the water heater from exploding. I mean some of the stuff I saw at this board meeting Your board members should have been asking questions. They just sat there No questions. No nothing and like Mary said We need a new liaison. We need someone that has a compassion for people That understands that those are lives in magnuco turds Not just a campaign pledge when we're running We've tried through there for six months and we play on a few residents And we shower them with all of the acknowledgement and then when it's over we don't see them no more They don't need that Mac nougat turds should not be your campaign ground This is horrible. I go every day. I see these residents every day. They can tell you I see them every day when I don't see them They'll call We'll we'll fight and fire is for dha We're standing we're standing in the gap Because they don't trust the trust was lost 20 years ago Because of the interaction of that that organization with the residents. I've sat in those I've come to down to the housing authority and I've listened to some of the staff how they speak with the residents Residents can come in and ask about their rent and they get treated like they're less than They're being told we'll get back to you and some of the things they say to them makes no sense Now give Anthony scott credit He did put the manager at the millennial After we talked about it for a while We have a manager in the millennial now and that cut back on some of the teenagers who don't get up and go to school They kind of hang out at the hotel It's a lot going on And it would be nice if somebody other than the mayor would trot around and look at what's going on with those residents because We haven't seen any of them now the mayor has come through But it's going to take more than you come through shaking hands And and you know being in their presence because they're star struck when you come It's the mayor, you know, that's just star struck. But what are you going to do? I said you had some years on this council You were the liaison. This is not a problem that happened overnight I've been trotting through there for 20 years and these problems been going on for more than 20 years So we've known about it, but you got to do something more than what we're seeing these residents deserve better Thank you, miss wax staff Miss Laura baddie Welcome miss baddie. You also have three minutes. Thank you. Good evening um, we at the millennium hotel just received the unsettling news that We will be no longer there after the 14th of february now. This is an it is unconscionable To people to children who are already suffering to a large extent from ptsd um A number of residents have expressed expressed grave concerns about going back to make doodles Um, I was just wondering isn't there any possibility That the residents at least a millennium some of the millennium residents could move into other refurbished Communities like deathmark court or Maureen road and if that's not possible, is there a possibility you can Some somehow place the residents In Close by cities where they may have uh relatives and friends Cities they're familiar with because this is really a crisis and it's A mental health crisis that's just growing and it's just not fair to these kids I mean they just Suffered tremendously And and they're not able to fulfill their potential because their education is interrupted So I beg you to do something about it. Thank you Thank you miss baddie All right Those are our speakers and i'll now ask if there are any comments by members of the council members of the council Anyone want to make any comments? If not, I'll make mine, but first I'd like to hear if anyone else has any Mayor pro tem. Thank you, mr. Mayor. Um, I can just give folks a quick update of the presentation that we heard Last week at the housing authority meeting And kind of where they are in the process. I know a number of the residents who are here Speaking were at that meeting so it's not information for them But for anyone who wasn't there and who would like a little bit more details Um, what we know now from dha. They've completed all of the inspections of the apartments. That's just the inspections that That were done ordered done to check for the carbon monoxide Any gas leaks or issues with the appliances any mold problems and any other problems that they might need to fix They have estimated that The repairs will cost at least six million dollars As we've as they've told us before the total amount of funding that they have in Their fund each year for maintenance is seven million dollars And so they'll be applying for an emergency grant from the federal government from HUD To cover that six million and that's you know that number could go up, but it's at least six million dollars The repairs have already started and they'll continue over the next few weeks The application for emergency assistance will be submitted in the very near future and so we'll care about that Hopefully pretty soon Of course, we know that the funding Resources that HUD has for these sorts of emergency situations are also limited So I want to continue to reiterate that the city has never turned down a request for funding from dha And that we are fully prepared to assist With any funding needs that come up to ensure that these homes can be returned to a habitable habitable condition And that folks can return home if they want to I understand that there are people who may not want to return to mcdougal terrace and the housing authority. I know is Dealing with folks who might request transfers to other communities and I'm hopeful that if folks don't want to return home That there'll be other options for them Um, we are also hearing a lot of folks Comment that given the condition of the buildings that mcdougal terrace needs to be torn down The issue with that though is that we don't have 350 homes to replace mcdougal terrace with right now The long-term plan for all of Durham housing authority properties is for them to be redeveloped For all of the properties to be completely redeveloped over the next couple of decades With Durham housing authority funding city funding And tax credits and other sources of funding loans That will allow this to happen, but it's not going to happen quickly It's a slow process building housing takes a long time And so we the housing authority has already started the process of redoing their communities They renovated damar court and mooring road as folks mentioned before they've renovated laurel oaks apartments They're starting to Work on their their next pieces. They're working on jj henderson tower and we'll be building a new senior housing Building on the side of jj henderson towers And then there are several other communities that are next in line. So long term We do want to redevelop mcdougal terrace entirely But we also need to ensure that for the immediate future That the homes are livable that people can return home to safe community and can live there For the time that it takes to actually redevelop the entire community So again, you know things are things are moving I know that that's not comforting to folks who are still in hotels After over a month and are anticipating being in hotels for another month This is not the situation that any of us would want to be in and it's not the situation that we are You know, it's not a situation that we wish on anyone the dha is going to continue to To repair these homes as quickly as they can and We're hoping that people will be home as soon as possible But the the work has to continue and the work will be done as soon as they can get it done And if they need any assistance from the city, we stand prepared to provide that assistance. Thank you Thank you. Thank you very much madam mayor pro tem. Is there anyone else that has any comments? Anyone else Councilmember meadowton. Thank you, mr. Mayor and thank all of you as always for being here tonight I just want to say to you very directly if in the old days you would have been home already The reason why you would have been home already is because Um, you ever seen your kid to clean their room and it only took them six minutes And you went to the room and it was all clean, but then you opened the closet And everything was stuffed in the closet or underneath the bed Um in the old days you would have been home already but um When mr. Scott came here the first night you came to your chamber Um, I asked him to promise us That he would not let anybody back into those homes knowing that they were not habitable And he promised that and we got that assurance Here's the deal And I said this at a work session to you before the The length of time you're out of your home Is directly proportional to how deep the problem is You were right You were right And this time we're not going to allow people to push the clothes in the closet Or put them under the bed And mayor pro tem said something instructive Because we can't tear it down right now The real price tag of making it habitable Short of tearing it down Is more than we've been spending to just patch it up It takes time And and our kids should be safe Our kids should be able to run around and stretch and if we've got to do some things Uh with Durham parks and recreation and other partners in this city to make the situation as livable as it can be And I know it's not But as livable as it can be But hear me well You were right About how bad it was And the length of time is directly reflective of how bad it was And the amount of work in time is going to take to make it livable What we used to do is not acceptable anymore But you're bearing that now you're bearing the brunt of that so that may not be any any comfort to you But you were right And that's what's happening That when we're poking a hole in the wall and we're seeing how bad it is You can't just throw paint over it not on this watch Can't do it Uh and it takes time to make it livable That's what's happening And in the meantime if we need to do more To let the kids stretch their their legs and and and then then we should be doing it And we need to do it but um But the reality is you were right about how bad it is That's why it's taken so long Thank you Thank you Any other comments any other comments from members of the council have a few comments i'd like to make as well I want to thank everybody for being here tonight and for Your public comment. It's all very important and uh, we're all listening hard and we're taking in what you say um I have been spending time This past couple weeks and as many of the hotels as I can get to to try to hear from people Talk to them about their individual situations listen about their individual situations And what I have seen is something that Uh, doesn't surprise me, but is always important to see face to face and fresh Which is uh the Individual difficult individual situations in which people are living Not only the difficult situations in which they're living in the hotels But just hearing about the difficulties of the lives of so many people in mcdougal terrace who have so many ways Before they were ever of these hotels a month ago So many ways in which they have struggled I've heard people talking about the jobs they get And the wages that they're paid at those jobs I've heard people talking about the transportation challenges that they face And I have seen very close up The several of you all have mentioned the mental health problems And challenges that so many people face And when people go back home in mcdougal terrace People will still be facing many of these same problems And we have to make sure that what we do Doesn't just stop when people go back home, but we're able to serve people in mcdougal terrace In very significant ways that we have not in the past When I was speaking on martin luther king day on several occasions I said What I want to repeat tonight I apologize. I apologize on behalf of myself. I apologize on behalf of previous councils and elected officials We have not done what is necessary To make the lives of the people in mcdougal terrace what they need to be And I recognize that this is a problem that has been 40 years in the making But we're the ones We're the ones that need to make it right That is our responsibility. I know it is my responsibility I also know that our community has looked the other way for far too long Far too long If you've never been in mcdougal terrace before You've driven by it We all bear a very significant responsibility to make this right I appreciated What the mayor pro tem described about the housing authorities plans And the detail around that I I want to say that we don't know when people are going to get back home Simply because the The housing authority doesn't want to predict what people are going to be back home and not really know So as soon as the housing authority knows when people will be back be able to be back home You will know You will know It won't happen all at once when buildings are ready people will be able to move back But as councilmember middleton said and the mayor pro tem no one will be moving back Until their their apartments are safe. We don't want to move people back into situations that aren't safe And a lot of work is being done to make that true The communication and trust issues that have been raised tonight and so many times and so many times as I've heard from people As I have been Speaking to them these last couple weeks are very very true and real And they are very powerful issues that are at the root of a lot of our problems And we have to challenge that we have to change that as well. I have a lot of faith in Mr. Scott I've said before and I will say again He's an excellent director of the Durham housing authority and he has my full confidence He has been transparent. He's operated with a lot of dignity and a lot of transparency And the tremendous hard work that I've seen the Durham housing authority staff do to try to make this Right has been admirable. I also want to say that I Uh, I think jillian has been a very good liaison mayor pro tem johnson has been a very good liaison with Durham housing authority And will continue to be and finally I just want to repeat We all need to be doing everything we can to get these folks home as soon as we can As soon as their apartments are safe Every day their discussions and That go on I've talked to mr. Scott almost every day About the progress the number of apartments that are being repaired. What is the status of those repairs? I know the city manager is on a daily call as well With housing authority county officials people from alliance mental health There's a lot of good work in coordination going on But we all recognize that those folks and and from the Many discussions I've had over the last couple of weeks I personally know the way in which people in these hotels have been suffering in ways that they should not If you're in a hotel for a month with three kids It's hard. It's really hard even if you have a cash card for food And even if you might be one of the people that has transportation, it's hard And I have seen many difficult situations And many traumatic situations And we need to get people as home as soon as we can And after their home we have to keep at it. We have to keep So I appreciate All of you all and I will say again that I consider this my responsibility To get this job done right All of our responsibilities, but I will tell you that I consider it mine And I will work until we have made it right So thank you so much everyone for being here I'm now going to move on to item four on our agenda and I believe mr Mr. Fenner has some comments about that mr. Fenner Mr. Fenner, uh, you're addressing the item Grant contract with legal aid of north carolina provide legal representation city of Durham residents facing eviction. You have three minutes, sir Yeah, I'm confused as to why we are spending money For legal aid that the state should be funding If a person cannot pay their rent Why would you spend taxpayer dollars to have legal aid To go and drag them into court when they got a mortgage to pay If you can't pay the rent you can't pay the rent You should not have legal aid to go in and prolong Or cause that landlord discomfort or or violated constitutional rights to able to have that home to rent out You're wasting five hundred thousand dollars that legal aid's job should be funded through the state Not through this not through the city You just said you spent five hundred thousand dollars A week at the hotel and you can't spend a hundred thousand dollars to put new furnaces and and stoves in madougal So somewhere online you are not being accountable of our taxpayer dollars You ask for a bond affordable housing bond 95 million dollars You ain't paying no salaries You don't even pay your city employees 36 thousand dollars a year So who you're building them for You sit up here and say you're responsible that mr. Scott is an upstanding young man a whole nine yards He'd been a Durham housing authority for almost what five years 10 years He's upstanding and that's what you're backing.  It's always been your responsibility My question is where's our money gone? Who has our money? Where's it not an audit done? You sit on the board for gold triangle who spent 160 million dollars taxpayers money And no one has nowhere where it went to about a tunnel. Where's the tunnel at? You were there. I saw you there It is time for you all to be accountable for our taxpayer dollars Private tax goes up means people's rent goes up Thank you, mr. Fenner I'm sure you do. Mr. Fenner Just for the information, uh, mr. Scott's been director of the housing authority for about three years And the money that we're allocating for The eviction diversion I wish it was supplied by the state or the federal government But since it's not our local government is going to step in and provide that funding and we believe that's an important job that we can do We can help prevent the eviction of many many people and that's our plan All right council members. I'll uh accept a motion on item four move approval second Move the second that we approve the eviction diversion funding and item four madam clerk. Please open the vote Please close the vote Six zero Thank you. Well now move to item five shared active transportation report and ordinance revision and this has been pulled by A resident memey kessler miss kessler Welcome miss kessler and you have three minutes. Thank you. My name is memey kessler. I live at 14 18 woodland drive this item Is of concern to a wide variety of people who live and who drive cars in Durham And what I found from looking at the Survey that was out that that went out that on average there were 14 86 um 1486 people who responded to the questions Which when divided into the um population of Durham of 600 Excuse me 200 67,743 143 is less than 1 percent So um 53 percent of the people who responded are between the ages of 25 and 44 65 percent of them are white 25 percent are Earned 50,000 to 100,000 18 percent Earned 100 to 150,000 which together is 43 percent 86 of them say they never wear helmets 100 and 1564 respondents Said that they supported scooters and And the those people there were 40 42 percent whereas the people who disliked And felt that it was a dangerous liability was 41 percent. They don't support the continued program in the cross tabulated area those who support 81 percent have ridden One of these scooters And only 55 percent have not ridden them So I feel like that the focus of the survey was primarily on scooter users And I don't think that the city has taken into account how automobile drivers feel there was some documentation about The scooters being left on the on sidewalks On private property And those are problems But the concerns that I hear From my neighbors and my friends are they're afraid of what their liability will be If somebody on a scooter who has no protective equipment Just runs out in front of their car What is the liability To the automobile driver And we don't feel like that this has been assessed We don't feel like we've actually had an opportunity to weigh in on this This is one of those surveys that you know, yes, you took a survey But less than 1 percent of the population of Durham Responded to it because there was no there was no advertisement And I just think that there needs to be better analysis Thank you, miss kessler. Thank you appreciate your comments and We had a very Comprehensive and robust discussion about many of those same issues at the work session that you've raised You're not the only person to share those concerns. I appreciate them I'm I see that attorney fred lemar is here. Mr. Lamar, you may be able to answer the question about the driver liability I would assume it would be the same liability that you would face if someone was riding a bicycle and you hit them But I may be wrong. Could you comment on that? Fred Lamar with the city attorney's office. No, I was actually gonna Mention skateboard rider or or bicycle rider It would be the similar kind of liability situation with that Right now the state has elected not to to regulate Scooter so hopefully over time the legislature may step in and may decide there there there may be some Financial responsibility on part of scooter riders. They don't do it for bicycle riders But uh, that's that that would be my response. Just what you said, mr. Mayor So if I hit a bicycle rider in my car I guess the liability is mine if I'm at fault That's correct. If I'm not at fault. I have no liability, right Thank you You're welcome. Um, I want to just uh affirm that uh, we we have had miss kessler a discussion In the council where again, we share many of the concerns that you have we recognize that There are safety issues with scooters that are being worked out nationally And so we'll be watching this very carefully. This is not something that We'll stop paying attention to uh, we have I think very Reasonable regulations given our what what we know now And so I'm certainly in favor of this, but I agree that this is something needs to be watched carefully over time and we will be So I appreciate you bringing those issues to us All right, can I have a motion now that we approve item five, which is uh, shared active transportation important ordinance moved Second the movement seconded that we approve the shared active transportation report in ordinance revision. Madam clerk, please open the vote Please close the vote Motion passes six zero. Thank you. There being no other business to come before this body. I'm going to declare this meeting adjourned at 814


SCP-602 is an unseen entity that can manipulate objects within apartment room. SCP-602 can exert enough force to knock people over and hold them down. While SCP-602 appears able to affect objects anywhere within apartment room, it cannot affect anything outside the apartment if the front door is closed. Thus, SCP-602 can be effectively contained with external locks on apartment front door. Scattered around the apartment are dozens of sculptures that resemble extremely distorted human beings. These sculptures appear to be made from a variety of materials, including marble, granite, wood, metal, porcelain, and glass.


Okay, hello, welcome everybody Ralph training he's here to talk about it does and what was new what's the future and See what what what he has to say, okay better. Yeah All right, so I would like to tell you something about the things we have been doing recently in our research group I've put it was in the title Well, it isn't called it was any longer For some time now, but I will come back to that a bit later So first of all, this is joint works have been more people involved in this and this work has been done with C3 fine Gentleman Pietro was already mentioned in the talk by wookie. He is the main author of our library and of our tools Robert de Cosmo He was behind the two European research projects that we had and he is the founder and leader of the aerial research lab I'm currently working in Paris and of course everybody knows suck our beloved the beyond project leader who has also been participating participating in this in this research. Okay, so This is the starting point I won't talk much about this because this is things we have presented a lot of times and Forstam at that conference or on just as a quick reminder So our starting point is what we have been doing some five or six years ago And this gave us a tool, which is today called either step check. What does it do? Well, it takes a package repository like the packages file that you find on your favorite devian mirror And it looks just on the relations between binary packages dependencies conflicts provides and so on and it tells you for each of the packages in this repository where the package is in theory Installable that is whether it is possible to satisfy all the dependencies and conflicts with packages That are present in this repository. It does this by looking only at the metadata It does not try to install anything. It doesn't look at maintainer scripts. It does not look at code at all It just looks at the package relations However, it uses a complete solving algorithm And this is one of the main features that this distinguishes it from aptitude or from apt because it uses in fact a set solver Which is behind and which actually finds a solution every time a solution is theoretically possible And we have a fast implementation behind this which comes in several flavors one flavor is for the beyond another one is for rpm And in fact, we have today we have a generic tool called it was this check Which also works for different related components more models like OS GI plug-ins Okay, so why did you continue to work on this because this is something we have been doing some five or six years ago Well, this gives part of the answer In fact, we are running our tool on the debian distribution for all the architectures and for all the areas Every day and then you get out of it something like this This is the table of resolve the results we get for each of the days so the lines are the different days columns are the different architectures This is only a part of the results and in fact, it's a bit old It's from September 2011. In fact, when you look at the figures figures of today, it's much much better This is probably an effect of the freeze. So packages are much more better behaved today. So we see here for instance for Intel Some 400 packages which are not installable for amv also some 400 and for the less popular architecture It's even more packages which are not Installable and the problem is well if you would click at on on this figure here You would get the table of all the packages which are found not to be installable with an explanation Why these packages are not installable? Well, the problem with this is imagine that you would try to start finding buck reports a problem Reports based on this. It's just too much. There are too many not installable packages So before one wants to do something with this data one has to look more precisely Why it happens at all that packages are not installable and you have asked yourself to ask yourself the question Whether we at all should worry about these packages which are not installable So why might it happen that the package is not installable in set? Well, there are some easy cases One easy case is quite obvious It might be a transient problem This is which is just due to the fact that a maintainer has uploaded a package and all its dependencies are not yet Available for this architecture in this case the problem will just go away in a day or two Nothing to worry about and these cases can be found very very easily just by looking at the age of the problem report Which is found by our tool a? Second source of non-installable packages which we do not have to worry about is this one We have architecture all packages and with our current infrastructure these packages will be propagated into all the architecture packages files and It may happen that in fact these architecture all packages are intended only for some architectures And in this case usually it happens that its dependencies which are architecture Specific may just not be available and in this case we find architecture all packages Which are not installable on some of the architectures nothing to worry about and then again This can be filtered out quite easily just by looking at the architecture file of the binary packages however, there are other cases which are not so easy and Some of these might be cases where we can say where we can pinpoint a location where something has to be done And these cases are well It might be the case that the package p depends for instance on some Non-installable packages or that it depends on packages which are in conflict with each other at the moment and Then the question well first of all we would in this case if this happens our tool would report a package p to be not Installable because this is just the claim to fame of this tool that it does a deep analysis of all the possibilities to install a package And it would find out a problem if a problem happens now Well in this case it might be the fault of the package p or it might be the fault of one of the packages that p Depends on and this is what you would like to find out It would be very nice to have a tool which could tell us in such in such a situation Now we have a package p which is found to be not installable who is to blame who has to work on this package and fix Something in order to make it installable again. Well, this is what we would like to have Ideally however, this is of course a goal which in this way cannot be solved by an automatic tool Of course not because if you would like to find out who's to blame Then we would need some understanding Why is there is a certain dependency why is there is a certain conflict and how these can possibly be changed in order to Make the package work again an automatic tool which just looks at the dependencies cannot solve this only a human could do that Maybe we could do it with this machine learning, but this is Something which we are not doing at the moment. However, what we can do is we can in a subset of these problems Pinpoint the situation Where there is a package and it is precisely this package which has to be fixed No one else can do anything about it and this is the situation that you would like to detect and first of all I will give you a precise Definition what this means this precise definition is completely theoretical It's not effective and then I will try to explain you how this definition can be turned into something Which can be recognized effectively effectively by an automatic Tool, okay, and this is the idea So when I talk about Pn this means that I have a package with a name P and a search a certain version which is n and I'm looking at a situation that I have such a package Pn Which is not installable with respect to the current repository which I call capital R Now the situation where I can say well it is peace own fault not to be installable is The following situation No matter what all the other packages and the repository do if they move on to newer versions If they change their dependencies that change that provides that change their conflicts, whatever No matter what all the other packages do this package remains not installable if this is the case Then I call my package outdated So this is our definition of outdated because then I know that this package It is not installable and only this package itself can do something about it and can fix its dependencies Conflicts in order to become installable again So why does this make sense? Well, this makes sense of course only because we may have dependencies and conflicts with version constraints And this you will see in a second and the examples Okay, here are some examples these are artificial examples, but at the end of the talk you will see some Examples that I got out of my tool well first of all this is an example We are just looking at the question whether a certain package is installable at all and and the second in the next slide We will look at the question whether it is outdated in fact So what do we have? We have here a dependency package through version one has a dependency which consists of two alternatives and In fact, when you look at this for a few seconds, you will see that this of course is well In fact, it's quite obvious that this package is not Installable why well we have a first dependency which is either best in version two five or bar Inversion precisely to three and we have none of them and the depository So we have bar in version two best in version two again and this is of course not Satisfiable at the moment so in this case you would find that package through in version one is not installable Now for a precisely the same set of packages is food one also outdated and The answer is no no, it's not why not because well even if food one is currently not installable What may happen is that for instance bar is advanced advancing its version to version two three So this would satisfy this dependency and best say is advancing to some version which is greater than two but Well, in fact, it's not necessary. So best can remain at the current version Just package bar has to advance to version two three in order to make it installable So in this case the package is not outdated Now let's look at this package five which is slightly changed in what has changed here are just the version numbers and the conflict And here we now have a case of a package foo, which is in fact outdated It can only be fixed by changing the dependencies of the package foo itself No matter what the other packages bar and best are doing they cannot make this package with these dependencies Installable why okay? Look at the first line here. You need best of version two five or bar of version two three Okay, imagine you try to have best of version two five best of version two five It's already here. That's fine. However, when we have best of version two five, we cannot have at the same moment best of a What's what's happening here Did I did I mess mess up the Okay, yes, of course. Yeah, thanks. So because we have already version two five We cannot have this dependency satisfied So we have to satisfy this one bar greater than two six which is in conflict to what we have here So this is not possible However, if we say we satisfy the first line by bar in version two three, which is already here Then we cannot satisfy this one So we have to satisfy this one and this is not possible because we are already at version two five We cannot downgrade this package in the repository So this is the kind of analysis that we would like to do automatically this hour with our tool All right, so now I've given you some intuition in order to make it more precise You have of course to define what precisely it means to move from one from one repository to a future version What precisely may happen when you move on packages in your repository? So what may happen packages may be removed Packages may move to newer versions, but they cannot be downgraded and the repository in fact This is the only thing which cannot happen If packages are advanced to newer versions, then we assume that in the process They can change their package relationships in any arbitrary way. So this is of course very very good However, this is the only assumption that we could make There is some leeway possibly here to improve the analysis by giving a more precise more narrow definition of how these can evolve But this is open open question for me at the moment. So if you have some ideas about this I would be very keen to discuss this. Okay, so packages can be removed They can move to newer versions when packages are changed. They can change their relationships in any way You can introduce new packages and this means there are of course many many many ways how a repository can change and Well the consequence of this is that are potentially Infinitely many ways how the repository can change. So this is of course a problem if you won't would like to make this Automatic one remark at the moment. We are assuming that the binary packages in the repository are moving independently of each other This is of course not true because as we know packages are uploaded by source packages But I will come back to this a bit a bit later Okay, and now we are transforming we are taking this definition Which is now completely precise but not effective and try to turn it into something which is effective So the first observation is well the first question one can ask is do we have to care about package removals from the repository and The answer is no. We do not why? Well, if it is the case that a package is not installable in any future where we haven't removed packages Then it is never installable in any future Why because the removal of packages from the repository cannot fix in solubility. It cannot fix anything So this means that Removals of packages are not relevant for us. We can ignore them when we look at all the potential futures of the repository Okay, next question. What happens when we introduce now new versions of Packages a priory these new versions of packages can change the relations in any arbitrary way Do we really have to care about all these different possibilities? How new packages can change their relations and the answer is no again Because for the purpose of this analysis, we can just assume that if we install if you have new versions of packages Then these new versions of packages behave as nicely as you could imagine They have no dependencies nor conflicts and they just exist in order to satisfy dependencies of already existing packages and the reasoning is well if a package is Installable in a future where all the other packages are as nice as one can imagine Then this package is also installable in all other Futures which are potentially worse So as a result of this we obtain that we can assume that if we introduce new packages in the repository Then we have no dependencies nor conflicts and this is since this is all we care about This means that we can assume that we know precisely how the future versions of the packages look like Because we just can say we have no dependencies and no conflicts. Okay, so this is nice Let's continue We can also introduce new packages with new names into the repository. Do we have to care about this? Yes, in some sense Because it may be the case that currently a package is not installable because it declares a dependency of something Which currently does not exist then obviously when we introduce this package in the repository the package becomes Installable so we have to care about potentially new packages However, not about arbitrary new packages because new packages can change something only if you already have someone who expresses a dependency on it So we have to care about new packages But only about those which names that are already known which exist already in the dependencies And this is a set which is known a priority in advance and which is finite Okay, so this is nice again So to wrap up what we have up to now We only have to look at a finite set of new package names the ones which are already expressed in dependencies We can ignore package removals and We can assume for the new packages that we know exactly what they look like no dependencies no conflicts However, there remains one problem That is the version numbers and there is of course an infinite Space of possible version numbers that future versions of packages may assume and this is the remaining problem that we have to look at and The way how we solve this is expressed is explained quite simply with an example So express assume that we currently have a package P and the repository is say in a version 5 And now we look at all the other dependencies and conflicts. Yeah, I'm sorry. Yeah, I'm Wondering if you can explain again Why we Why it's okay to assume that new packages don't have dependencies in complex. Okay, I understand that. Okay, I'm sorry So this was This argument, okay, because we are interested in the situation that in all possible futures a Package is not installable. This is the situation that we would like to recognize Now in order to recognize this it is the fifth It is sufficient to look only at those futures The new packages have no dependencies and no conflicts because when they have dependencies and conflicts It makes the installation problem just harder If it is already impossible where all the other packages behave as nicely as possible They don't have themselves any dependencies and conflicts and They just sit there in order to satisfy my dependencies and if even in this situation and so the installation is not possible Then I know it's never it's never possible So that's the reasoning. All right, so The problem that remains is the infinite set of possible versions Okay, let's look at this example We have currently package P in version 5 and now I look at the all the dependencies and conflicts Which are expressed in the other packages in my repository and say I have to have dependency on P in Version smaller equals a 9 and P in a version different than 12 Now the versions that I would have to look at are the following ones I take the word package, which I already have in my repository version 5 and I would introduce future versions that are mentioned in these dependencies 9 and 12 This is of course not completely sufficient because it may also be interesting to look at something which is between These numbers because otherwise I would miss for instance packages that would satisfy some of these Combinations of constraints. So in order to obtain really all the possibilities I would also introduce these red numbers which are just intermediate points between all the version numbers Which are mentioned plus one which is bigger than everybody and I know I don't need anyone Version which is smaller than everybody because I'm only only moving forward in the future and never backwards Okay, so now in theory. We are almost done So we have a finite number of version numbers that we would have to care for and which would be Representative for all the possible futures that we can obtain well if one looks carefully one can be a bit better and compress this list a little bit So here's again what we had on the previous slides So we have currently version 5 and we have these two constraints and we have identified this list of versions Now what's important about these version numbers is whether they satisfy or not Certain constraint that we have here smaller equal 9 or different from 12 and when you look at these You will find that there are two pairs of versions which behave exactly the same with respect to these Constraints in theoretical computer science. This is called an observational equivalence which means you have a set of a set of observations They are here and you identify things which be which do not for which you cannot observe a difference And these two pairs are 10 and 13 Because when you take 10 and 13 they both do not satisfy this one and they do satisfy this one So you can identify them and adjust keep 10 arbitrarily and Also, you have six and nine which behave the same because they do satisfy this one They also do satisfy this one. So I just keep the version number nine Okay So are we done yet? In theory yes in theory yes because yeah, why doesn't five fall in with six and nine there? What why five seems to satisfy the same as six and nine six and nine you have smaller and equal here So six and nine they both do satisfy this constraint, right? And they're also both do not satisfy this constraint, right and five seems to be in the same category. Oh Okay, because five is in fact the package that we care for that This is the package we currently have in the repository and this is the package for which we would like to know in the end whether it is installable or not and The other ones are future versions the future future versions which are introduced here are just future future versions That I introduce for the sake of the analysis Yes, okay, so you're right. Okay, so this observational equivalence must be applied only to the future versions Okay So what what do we get now? We have For every package that we have to care about a finite set of possible future versions So in theory we could now look at all the possible combinations and construct all the possible futures And this is of course completely infeasible Imagine we have thirty five thousand packages in in Z it if you only had two versions per package This would give you two to the power of thirty five thousand possible futures and believe you believe me You do not want to to compute with that Okay, so this is completely impossible even if in theory it would give us an answer However, the way out of this is quite easy Because what we can do is we take now all the different versions of the packages that we have constructed Plus the ones we have already and we put them together in one large repository This would be a repository which contains several versions of packages But this is something which is perfectly allowed and we look at this big repository you which contains everything Now this is of course much much smaller in our example This would be a small multiple of thirty five thousand and this is very very feasible for a set server It of course it has to be justified that this gives us exactly the same result This respect to insolubility, but this is the case and this needs a bit of of reasoning But intuitively it's quite clear because what we are looking at are all the possible installation sets that are allowed That are licensed by any of these repositories and all the possible installation That's that we get from this large huge repository Is exactly the same set as installations at the ones that we get from all these possible futures that we have here So we just lumped together all the versions of the packages and we look for insolubility in this large set of repositories now this would be almost the solution if I wouldn't had if I Hadn't made an assumption at the beginning and this assumption was that all the packages are moving Independently of each other's which is not the case in reality as you know that binary binary packages and the repository are advancing in a synchronized way Because they are coming from source packages and then we upload a new version We upload a new source package and in our for the purpose of our analysis This is like introducing in a cluster new versions of a complete cluster of of of of binary packages Okay, so this has to be taken into consideration that is when we look now at our Large universe you which contains all the future versions of all the packages Then we have to exclude all the installations which would mix versions Different versions of packages coming from the same source and this is not difficult to do what we do is we introduce conflicts and The trick how we did is in in our in our tool is well when we have a package of name P and Version N and you find that it comes from a source S called S. So he would just introduce a provides This package would provide a package that we call source S of version N And we would say that this package is in conflict With the source S the same source but of a different version And it is where we would we would avoid that we install different versions of packages from the same source But this different with different versions There is of course I have cheated a little bit I've cheated cheated at two places first thing is we do not really have version provides in the beyond However, then we are doing this analysis. We are no longer working on the dbn format We are working on a different format, which is called CDF which allows to have versioned provides first thing second thing is Well, this works in case We have binary packages coming from a source package and all the binary packages coming from the source packages Package have in fact the same version This is not always the case It might be the case that a maintainer has decided to have one binary package following a completely different version scheme Than the rest of them in reality our analysis is a bit finer It just looks at clusters of binary packages which have similar similar version numbers, and I see that several questions David Ansgar, maybe do you have a no David once you introduce version provides then You can actually have packages going backwards in time because you can introduce a new package that provides an old version number of another package So your analysis ends up changing once you allow version provides because you can't guarantee that the version numbering is monotonically increasing I Do not really follow So, okay Version package foo is that version three excuse me excuse me of course I'm assuming that this is a prefix which is not which which isn't yet used So no one is is depending on something like source source s right no So I don't I don't have a problem with this particular step I'm just pointing out that if your model does allow for version provides then some of your previous assumptions It for instance if Debian was to suddenly start allowing version provides Then some of your previous assumptions don't hold Because you can introduce a new package that provides a lower version of an existing package Okay, good remark good remark In fact, we are not starting from a model in which we allow version provides We are starting from the Debian model and in the Debian model We just we only have for Debian policy allows But then we translate it into CDF and we are doing this because our tools are in fact using are using the CDF format And only in this transform model. We are introducing this these these version provides Okay, there are some there are some other things one has to look at for instance It might be possible that you have a source package and the binary packages generated from the source package Have almost the same version number So it might be that one of them hasn't has an epoch for instance, or it might be the case that one of them has a bin emu suffix, but this can be easily dealt with All right, so and this in fact is the solution. This is what our tool is doing now Let's look at what one gets when one wants this tool on a set repository Yesterday, I did it on on a reason to the repository And that case it was quite boring it didn't find almost it almost didn't find any Audited packages this again, I think is due to the freeze So all the packages are currently quite well behaved and for this reason I took an old analysis from from October of last year And that case we had in sit main on ice we see 86 we had some 35,000 binary packages and The classical it was step-check tool would find among them 431 which are which are not installable Now we are running on this our tool which does this outdated analysis We are adding new future versions of packages because I'm dummies and after adding these dummies We have some eighty suit eighty two thousand packages, which is quite a low number So our tool runs it runs for some two minutes on my on my laptop and it finds amongst them as them 119 outdated packages in the sense. I just have explained now Let's look at some of these what we get and well we find among among these 119 some 60 which look like this and you of course all when you are debian developer You have seen these things. You know what this is this was the parson transition So you this is in fact the kind of explanations that we get out of the tool You find in this case that the package with this name and its version number is found to be outdated And the reason is that it has a dependency Which cannot be satisfied and this dependency is on a parson version smaller than 27 Okay Now I know there's a parson transition going on and this means I would of course like to ignore all these Reports which are coming from the fact that there is a parson transition going on. How do I do that? Well, I could filter it with scrap or something like that But the proper way to do it now is I just add to my repository a dummy package Which just provides parson to see two to six inversion Well, but parson inversion to six and I won my tool again when I want it again I get now some 50 packages which are found outdated and I look again at the results that I get out of this Well, I get something like this No, this is really really an old parson version. So this really this really is a bug Okay, and then I think the bug was already reported. I don't remember if it was not it I certainly did report a bug on that, but this was the only one which was still found undecided Uninstallable due to a parson dependency, but there are others So we have yet some cases like this in this case In fact, a package was not installable because the maintainer had in fact hardwired into the dependencies Dependency on a package which has already advanced. So here we had a dependency on esterix And we had at that time already a version of esterix, which was newer than 118 In this case, this was hardwired into the control file of the package And this was in fact a bug again. This was a bug which was already known at at that time This looks precisely the same. However, the nature is different. Here. We have again a package With an unsatisfiable Dependency and of course we have been used in the in the archive But been you've been used in a newer version like this. However, in this case, this was a dependency which was Filled in at build time and in this case where this is kind of Of a problem for me if I would like in fact, I would like to file automatically Buck reports out of this. However for these cases where the dependency is just filled in by compile time What I should do is of course a bug report against FTP No, it's released and to ask for for rebuild of them of the package Which I did in this case, but I had to find it out manually by looking at them at the at the package and this finally is an interesting example and It let's look a bit at what happened here and for the first reading please ignore the blue lines and just look at the Black lines and at the red lines. So what happens here? We have a package which is called Cyrus admin to do to to which is found to be outdated and the reason for this is that we have two dependency chains going out from this package To packages which are themselves in conflict with each other These two conflicting packages are package one and package two here. So we have package one which is Cyrus admin to fall and So it was admin to to well, this one is precisely the same as our root package. This one is in fact Obtained by following a dependency chain And here in Cyrus admin to fall we have a conflict this Cyrus admin to to so we have a conflict and what we have below here This explains how we arrive at this package. In fact, we have a dependency chain Going out from Cyrus admin to to our root package And there we have a dependency on Cyrus admin to fall and there we arrive at the package Which is in the conflict this with itself. Okay, so clearly this is not installable however According to what I just said, it's not obvious that the packages outdated. Why we have a conflict But the conflict is expressed in the package Cyrus admin to fall So in theory if the package Cyrus admin to fall advances to a newer version Which drops this conflict the problem would be solved However, this is now where the blue lines kick in the blue lines tell us that both packages are Coming from the same source. They're both coming from Cyrus. I'm up the to fall which is a bit strange But I think these are backward competitive compatibility packages something like that Okay, but both are coming from the same source version and since both are coming from the same source package They cannot advance independently of each other and in this case We know that the maintainer of this package Well, in fact the maintainer of the source package has to do something about it And he has to fix his dependency in order to get it right I think there was some to say try to do some transitional packages between versions and say got mixed up with the version numbers and we filed a bug report about this and it was fixed immediately Okay, now to wrap up Well, first of all, I should say something about this so this is a line of research Which started a long time ago in 2004 we started with a European research project Which was called Edo's The Edo's project is over since more than five years But somehow this name has stuck with us and we are still using it as a kind of a brand name because it's now quite quite well-known So Edo's was the first project on the analysis of package of package relation Well, where we worked on different aspects of quality issuance of packages Then we had them in cruise European project. This is slightly different focus. It's all it's it's also over now And we are still working on these tools. We are still maintaining these tools However, we now have changed the names. We are calling them now doze. So it's no longer Edo's It's called doze now with new implementation of all our tools. We have the tool. I just presented to you It's called outdated and you find it in the DB and package of the name doze outdated And just a brief note of advertisement. We also have a new version of depth check or this check This has been a once in so long times the old version We now have a new implementation which is much better which has a modular architecture Which has a nice documentation and which is multi-arc aware So for we see we are still keeping both the old Edo's version and the new doze version But for VC plus one, we would like to get rid of the old stuff and just keep the new one the doze stuff So if you're interested in this if you're using it, please advance to doze look at it and talk to me About what you think it okay Now what remains to be done? There are some things that I would like to do some of them are easy some of them are not So it first of all it would be better to it would be nice to have an automatic Classification of the results this would make it much easier for me to file back reports because at the moment I file back reports when I feel like it when I have the time and this is not very often recently so for instance we get quite some Reports about Packages which are craft craft means as they are still in the archive But they are no longer generated from the source package and usually they should be cleaned out by the archive software But sometimes this doesn't happen. So sometimes we have craft which is found to be non installable and even outdated I should find a good way to automatically find packages which just needs to need to be recompiled and Well, this is a bit more difficult. I also would like To have some way To integrate the information about the officially ongoing transitions So I know there is a web page by by the release team I just have to find a way to pass this information and to integrate it into the tool which does the classification of Results. Okay. So this is easy stuff. This is just Something to implement What's more interesting also from an academic point of view would be an Precision of the model which is behind the analysis Because currently we are assuming that all the packages can change in any arbitrary way when they advance to new versions And this is of course not realistic However, the challenge is to find a more realistic model and this model of course could not be something like all for all 15,000 source packages I fill in by hand How these packages can possibly evolve so what's needed here is some way some some generic model Which is realistic and which gives us a better final analysis of how packages may evolve and finally I also have to work on the explanations Which are currently kind of a mess and this is due to the output that we get out of the set solver We have different a lot of different alternatives Which has to be taken into account because we have for every package many different Versions that have to be taken into account and for all possible combinations the such over gives us an explanation This gives me a list like this and currently this is something which I cannot put into a buck report because otherwise You will kill me so I have to write by hand an explanation which summarizes the reason why a package is found to be outdated Okay, thanks for your attention and I think time is almost up But maybe there is some time for questions in fantastic stuff Have you considered doing upgrade ability analysis? What do you mean by that? I mean it seems like your models and much of your software might be able to tell Whether in fact the system with a particular package installed could be Have that package upgraded without needing to de-install it. I noticed that The auditing what without needing to remove it in the meantime and Removing packages in the meantime during an upgrade is undesirable and usually a bug and I know Usually this is the result of bugs in the dependencies We had one in Woody to etch I think it was where you had to actually According to the dependencies you had to remove x during the upgrade, but then you can act would Supply some false options. So you didn't notice this No, we haven't looked at this so far in fact we are In fact, we are not really Well, our analysis is somewhat the cause in the sense that we are not really looking at a scheduling Often often upgrade. So we are just looking at the original situation These packages are installed and at the target situation these packages are installed and we are not looking at the sequence of Insulations that have to be done I was not aware of so maybe we can discuss this offline So I would be very very into the tool to learn more about this. Yeah. Thank you Have you looked at multi arc and changes in the relationships that can happen? Not in the context of this outdated analysis So the depth check to the district tool is now multi-arch aware. So it knows about about Dependencies which can be satisfied across across architecture boundaries This outdated analysis. No, I haven't looked at at multi arc But I do not think well, I do not hope that it would change this thing In an essential way Do you do you think there is a particular problem coming in from from I think from from multi arc? Not that I know. No, okay. Okay. Good Well, thanks Ralph if there is no more questions Thanks for your presentation. Okay. Thank you