Hey everybody, today we're debating whether or not Islam is true and we are starting right now with Perfect Awa's opening statement. Thanks so much for being with us. Perfect Awa the floor is all yours. Hello and thank you very much James and Aaron for this opportunity. It is almost impossible for some people to accept any proof about existence of God, not even miracles are sufficient for them. Or on chapter 54 verse 2, yet whenever they see a sign they turn away saying same old magic. But for some people the minimum evidence is enough to believe. At the age of 25 I started to think about God's existence because I had little knowledge within few days I decided that God doesn't exist. Not because there were no evidences but because I didn't have the right knowledge to see them. Because later I learned that definitely there is an end to this universe and the life we know will end. I knew that Abrahamic religions believe that one day the world will end. But I learned that pagans believe in reincarnation which goes on forever despite according science ever doesn't exist. Probably this woke me up that if all religions are man-made then they all should be the same. But Abrahamic religions are totally different. I learned that pagans from Mayans to ancient Greeks and Egyptians and other polytheists religions have no any connection connections and the only similarities they have is that they have hundreds of gods or even millions. But Abrahamic religions have one source despite hundreds of years different in time and thousands of kilometers away from each other. Thousands of years ago all of them said that one day the world will end. This was a great evidence for me which I believe that they got this knowledge from a higher power. When I put this beside many other scientific facts mentioned in Quran then I absolutely cannot deny the fact. Quran chapter 21 verse 104, today when we will fold the heaven like the folding of a written sheet for the records as we began the first creation so we shall do it all over again. That is a promise binding upon us indeed we will do it. In this verse Allah talks about how the world will end as there are three possible ways the big chill the big rip and the big crunch from these three possible ways Allah says the world will end through the big crunch. When he says we will fold the heaven like the folding of a written sheet so we shall do it all over again and Allah even tells us that there was a beginning for this universe when he says as we began the first creation Quran chapter 21 verse 30 have those who are copper not considered that the heavens and the earth were a joint entity and we separated them and made from water every living thing then will they not believe today we know that the universe was a joint entity and the big bang separated everything but Allah told us this 1400 years ago and he even told us that every living creature on this planet has been created from water something that we didn't know in the past Quran chapter 27 verse 64 is he who begins creation and then repeats it and who provides for you from the heaven and earth is there a deity with Allah say produce your proof if you should be truthful once again Allah tells us that there was a beginning which started by a big bang and the world will end through the big crunch when he says he will repeat the creation there are many more verses to add but as I said for someone only one fact is enough and for some not even the biggest miracle is enough 1400 years ago in arabia the greatest knowledge was only reading and writing prophet Muhammad didn't even have that that knowledge talking about universe was absolutely out of question for him especially being correct after all these facts I don't follow God just because he exists but because of his message that has changed our world to a better world and will change it to a perfect world in the future his guidance will guide us to a world without war prostitution droughts corruptions killings and any bad things a world filled with love and equality thank you very much that was my opening thank you very much for that opening two seconds I'm gonna unmute myself on mute or zoom thank you very much for that opening and with that we are going to kick it over to Aaron for his opening as well but before we do I want to say first folks at a diverse time here at modern day debate we are a neutral platform welcoming everybody will you be atheist muslim christian you name it we're glad that you are here and also want to say if you haven't yet hit that subscribe button as we have many big debates and discussions coming up for example at the bottom right of your screen daniel haki kachu and inspiring philosophies mike jones have agreed to debate that's coming up on modern day debate you don't want to miss it so hit that subscribe button and with that thank you very much are in raw the floor is all yours for your opening as well all right well is slum true is is slum true as I always say and I always say this the truth is what the facts are what we can show to be true not whatever else we might assume or imagine beyond or instead of that and while there are many things that may be true that we don't yet know we can't say that they are true until we know if they are true and we can't honestly call it true if I excuse me we cannot honestly call it true if we cannot show the truth of it and no religion can do that because there is no truth to any of them if you can't show it you don't know it and you shouldn't pretend that you do but religion is not and does not like the truth they would rather make believe something else instead every religion is its own set of lies and Islam is just newer lies based on older lies as Abraham Lincoln said it is an established maxim in morals that he who makes an assertion without knowing whether it is true or false is guilty of falsehood and the accidental truth of the assertion does not justify or excuse him so we know that it is dishonest to assert baseless speculation as if it was a matter of fact yet that is what all religions do and the Quran does that all through every surah religion is literally make believe faith is all about pretending to know what no one even can know trying to make believe things that are not evidently true and religious apologetics is all about making up excuses to keep whatever excuses necessary to keep believing what we already know is not true but that you're determined to believe it anyway I was baptized Mormon and my family expected me to grow up Mormon and when they wanted me to read their scriptures they couldn't understand when I told them that the book of Mormon is based on the Bible so if the Bible is wrong if Christianity is wrong then Mormons are wrong too and they and if they're repeating the same claims and the same goes for Islam and one of the advantages that Joseph Smith had over Muhammad was that in 19th century people had a much better understanding of the planets and how the earth relates to the rest of the cosmos and Smith was much like the 20th century science fiction writer L Ron Hubbard they were two men who just made up their own religion fraudulently and they both they both included contemporary concepts of science fiction Muhammad didn't have that back in the seventh century and he wasn't that imaginative either all he did was take existing elements of Aryan Christianity and blended that with Arabian cultural traditions and the Quran even admits that Muhammad was not well learned but he still had some knowledge of Greek scholars like Galen and so on and when he referenced their work in the Quran he included their mistakes as well because he had no idea they were an error and there were some other learned men back then who knew better than Muhammad did about biology and astronomy and so on but he didn't know about them his sources were already out of date by the time he made up that religion and those are not the only errors he included either for example the Bible describes the earth as flat as if the sun and the moon both orbit our disc world within the expanse of a giant crystal dome and this was a common idea in ancient times from the near east to the far east and the bible repeats this mistake this laughable mistake a few times even pretending to quote god describing the earth as flat Muhammad had a chance to correct that but he didn't even know that it was a problem so rather than fix this embarrassing error Muhammad merely repeated the mistake saying all sorts of silly things about the sun and the moon and how they're both the same size both smaller than the earth and they both orbit around the sun and or but they both are orbit around the earth and so on the bible says that the dome over the flat earth is solid crystalline with a mirror finish looking like molten glass into which god put all the stars in such and the Quran repeats that mistake too and somehow makes it even worse because in the ground the stars are just lanterns stuck in the sky that in the solid sky that the angels can use as projectile weapons to defend against genies when they get too close to the roof of this dome which is supposed to be where god's heavenly hotel is supposed to be and the bible says that god fashioned and shaped this bowl to stretch out the heavens like a tent and Muhammad repeated that error too and modern muslim apologists have tried to twist that into two different references if it was as if it was supposed to refer to cosmic inflation which we know it was never intended and still doesn't work imagine for a moment that god exists and created the universe as we perceive it today and he knew how primitive people had always gotten it wrong until then and he could have written an explanation of the world that with that the world that we walk on is like a floating bubble or a raindrop falling eternal with no end in either direction and that there and that there are many other bubbles or drops besides this one and people would have understood that even back then the information would have been accurate even if it wasn't intuitive at the time and its truth would have been born out much better than what god allegedly said instead because muslim apologists expect us to believe that god wrote the Quran conforming to the old and false notion of affirmation knowing not only how that would not be understood correctly back then but knowing how it would have been understood incorrectly wrongly misleading so many for centuries and how that description given then still cannot be reconciled with big bang cosmology today because we know what the scripture says and why it said that because Muhammad didn't know any better and when i speak of Muhammad i'm really only referring to whoever or whatever collective cobbled together the Quran or and the myriad interpretations in the hadiths i'm told that no one even knows how many hadiths there are but they're treated as authoritative just like the rabbis and the Torah were considered authorities even though none of those people in either religion had any idea of how to know what they were talking about and it shows and much of christianity on which islam is based was literally dreamt up by mystics who could not distinguish fantasy from reality that's how religion was invented we know and can show that the global flood of Noah's ark never happened yet the Quran says it did several times even says that everyone alive now is necessarily a descendant of Noah the mere fallible people who compiled the Quran because it was obviously a collective effort clearly not dictation given by god those superstitious believers and mysticism were raised to revere folklore that we can now prove to be nothing more than fairy tales we know we're certain that adam and eve were just characters in a fable with no truth in it that prior to the hebrew myth of creation both of those characters already existed in mesopotamia and mythos and that they were adapted to jewish tradition and adopted by muslims as well but there was never any truth to that story this may come as a surprise to some people in the audience but snakes can't talk nor could nor could there be any truth to that story and we know this it is childish and inane to even attempt to argue otherwise but it's not just that the Quran is wrong about practically everything it says about science about cosmology biology even about history it's so wrong that it would still be morally wrong even if it was factually accurate there's so much wrong with it and i know we'll get to a lot of that later in this debate but for right now let's look at the worst of it the notion of hell for the unbeliever the empty threat of a fate worse than death that is repeated in almost every surah of the Quran if there really was a god and he was a righteous judge something worthy of worship then there could not be a hell because that ultimate injustice contradicts everything we're told that god is supposed to stand for the only reason hell exists as a concept in christianity or islam is to extort support from the gullible rubes through fear by which the leaders of the clergy can assume financial and political power the problem is that it doesn't matter how good you are you could dictate you could dedicate your life to god and live as a charitable renunciate forsaking all of the pleasures of the flesh and never enjoy life at all expecting god to reward you after you die but if you're christian and you think jesus is god or that he is the son of god then you're going to muslim hell and if you're muslim then you're going to christian hell because you didn't accept the trinity of divinity either version of god is equally wrong and immoral and a very poor judge fortunately there is no god so he literally does not give a damn you gotta thank you very much for that opening as well aron and want to go into the open dialogue folks want to let you know we'll have q and a after the open discussion so if you happen to have a question feel free to tag me in the live chat with at modern day debate or if you ask via super chat those go to the top of the list and with that thank you very much perfect awa and aron the floor is all yours for open dialogue all right i just uh i would like to say as well that i go live after this debate and i would like to say as i said for some people even the biggest miracle is not enough okay and i would like to ask aron do you know aron about the three possible way that the world will end the big chill the big crunch and the big rip do you know anything about those are three of the those are three of many possibilities none of which are relevant by the way yeah argument all right but so far it's three not many i haven't heard any other than these three okay well there's nuclear devastation that's one uh and then you know the ending of the world from our perspective uh is is certainly plausible where life will continue after our species has extinguished itself i'm not talking about uh our planet i'm talking about the entire universe there are three possible way that how the world will end the universe i'm only aware of two then because big crunch has been pretty much eliminated okay but but uh i know that the the big bang okay is not a beginning of the universe okay that i've talked to a number of cosmologists about this they believe that the universe is eternal in either direction and so there is you know you can have an argument that maybe there could be heat death but then uh some cosmologists like uh Sean Carroll for example argues that there's just a changing state and even the possibility that gravity becomes a a repellent force rather than an attractive force and i'm not i don't do cosmology because as i said it's irrelevant to this discussion yeah it has nothing to do with whether there's a god or not and we're not arguing about whether there's a god or not anyway okay the point of this debate is is islam true uh no and there's nothing the Quran says that's factually accurate or morally true all right it's nothing true about it so if we could stick to the topic okay yeah the topic is that the evidence that which i presented that Quran you said you said somebody told you the world was going to end someday and you mistook that for evidence okay uh i said that that's uh when Quran talks about the repeating the the universe okay unfolding it first like a written sheet okay he's Quran is talking about uh you know the the big chill or it's known as well as the pulsing theory okay before i see these uh before i see these verses of Quran uh i believe in that uh you know theory that because i believe that god has existed existed forever and will exist forever so he couldn't just decide to create the universe 15 billion years ago so it must have been done in the past forever and in the future uh will continue to happen again and again until i saw these many verses of Quran that Allah says that he will repeat it again okay and that made me uh believe that yes the big crunch or the pulsing theory is the correct theory okay so i'm sorry that you misunderstood both cosmology and your own theology because what the Quran actually talks about is a day of judgment where on this planet on this physical planet okay that would they're supposed to be an eclipse of the sun and the moon because the the Quran gets those confused too but it but it says that when these signs happen and the day of judgment comes then our physical bodies will be reanimated and crawl out of our physical graves to go to a physical location in the physical dome of the of the non-existent firmament where we're going to all live forever in God's eternal hotel in the expanse of this firmament which means that the physical earth must continue to exist for us to be sitting in this physical realm otherwise nothing in the Quran says about the judgment that the day of judgment or our eternity thereafter in this in this abode makes any sense if the universe comes to an end then so does this planet and so does the the sky yeah where Quran says that it is on this planet and i haven't seen that such a verse that oh yes you have it's all over the Quran you just go back and read it again i can help you i've got a i've got a good idea about this and infidel reads of the Quran i can point out the verses to you i wish i could have had it compiled before this debate yeah because i'm too busy with other things yes i have all the notes i just don't have it all assembled yet i haven't does talk it does talk about our physical bodies crawling out of physical graves which means on this planet because for whatever reason Muhammad didn't go the route that other religions did they all confused the idea that we have to breathe air in and out that everybody else thought that that was a spirit that air was spirit and when they saw dust devils they thought they were literally devils so they thought they thought that air and the movement of air was divine or spiritual but Muhammad didn't and so that we you have this invisible soul that like looks just like you that comes out of your body when you die but that's not how Muhammad envisioned it he just he envisioned our actual physical bodies coming back to life like zombies that would be and the Quran even says is that our bodies will be reinvigorated they'll be recharged back to our youthful living selves or vital selves the way we were before and then we still have to eat and we still have to drink and we still have houses where we need shelter even in heaven where we will continue to have sex that's so yeah it's a continuation of the physical world and it all happens on this planet because Muhammad didn't know there were other planets no no that's not on this planet that's in heaven and heaven is in another dimension okay so and that's the way no it isn't and the Quran is explicit about this over and over again okay yes heaven the heavens the sky the dome of the firmament this is the place where they put all the lights that are the stars but they're not stars in the Quran the instead of because Muhammad didn't know what stars are he said they were lights that the angels could use as projectile weapons to lob against genies when they get too close and that that's why we see what we call shooting stars meteors he didn't know what those are he thought those were angels waging war and shooting at at devils no that's uh look uh iron i said that this is what all muslims believe okay i don't know from where you have gotten it that the Quran read it i know it's full of nonsense like that this is all look this is all what all muslims believe that heaven and hell is on another side okay we talk about another side is not on this planet earth okay so and then you said that's not what the Quran says and then you said hell for disbeliever no there is nothing in Quran that sent disbelievers to hell okay that's the there's every surah there's every surah except for the for two or three of the ones that are amount to only one sentence otherwise every surah over and over again that's all the damn book says is believe or else you go to hell that's it over and over again no it doesn't say okay it always says that it almost only it's a copper it's a copper okay it's a copper copper is not disbeliever aron okay i can give you now the verses because you don't have the verses okay i i don't need the verses there's too many you have to give the entire it's the whole book no you have to come with the evidences aron you cannot just i have the evidence by the way by evidences not evidences it's just evidence it's a collective it's already in plural okay and the evidence i already gave was it almost every surah says this that you say it never says give me one surah that says that disbelievers go to hell give me one surah very first one the way that it is currently written right now that the book the way that they put everything out of order the way that it is commonly published very first surah starts out believe the Quran or else you go to hell every surah thereafter except for a couple that are only okay they all say that no it says that look it's about kaffir okay kuf it says chapter 16 verse 83 says they recognize the favor of Allah then they deny it and most of them are kaffir this is talking about these believers and say most of them are kaffir not all of them okay so there are many many verses in Quran i can put for you that Allah is talking about those who commit kuf okay and committing kuf can be by muslims can be by non muslims okay Quran i will give you i will give you that one of the injustices of the many injustices in the Quran is that it says that even if you're a believer you can still go to hell but the unbelievers definitely go to hell no there's not an option okay where it is no where you cannot be where you can be an unbeliever and not go to hell there's there's no option for somebody like me for an atheist there's no often there's no offer or option for the most charitable good-natured kind-hearted person ever if they don't believe the nonsense sold to them by Muhammad and clan they're going to hell and that the Quran is explicit about that repeatedly throughout okay you said that Christians go to hell yeah Christians say that they're going to go to hell for the unbeliever and of course the way that they have it if you if the only sin that will not be forgiven it doesn't matter how how evil you are every sin can be forgiven if you but believe and ask for forgiveness but the only sin that will not be forgiven is the sin of disbelief okay now Islam is slightly different in that believers can still go to hell because you still have to mind your peas and queues after that if you're Christian you can you can if you love sin be a Christian because you can sin all you want to and just be forgiven for it but the Muslims don't have that same loophole all right but you said that Christians go to to the Muslims hell chapter 3 verse 113 not all of them are alike the people of the book are uh sorry of the people of the book are a person that stand for the right they rehearse the verses of God all night long and they prostrate themselves in adortion next verse they believe in God and the last day then yes but then that also goes in changes that sorry it also specifies that Christians if they believe that Jesus is the Son of God then they are bound to the hell because God has no children God has no partner and to say that God has children or a partner is a damnable offense no no the Quran does say that if you are a Christian and you believe in the Trinity you're going to hell I specified that already no Quran says uh uh chapter 3 verse 115 I was continuing and whatever good they do will never be removed from them and Allah is knowing all knowing of all sorry the righteous so you're putting out a contradiction then sorry no it's not a contradiction it's a combination okay if the Quran says okay that if you believe in the trinity if you say that God has children or that God has partners or that Jesus is God if you say any of those things you're going to hell no it's not saying and then you're saying that on top of that that the that the Quran also says that you you don't necessarily have to go to hell I never came across that verse by the way and I read it it's in its entirety I can you're saying that people can be forgiven for being unbelievers that you don't have to believe no and you can be in heaven yes uh Quran says that uh there there is a verse in Quran that says that those who fight for equality okay it is in Quran mentioned cast okay if they get killed it doesn't say Muslim if they get killed they they will go to heaven okay so Quran separate people who do good deeds and people who do bad deeds okay so it's all about doing good deeds and you know submitting to Allah's will which is doing good deeds so if you do good deeds and you avoid bad deeds Allah knows that you have errors you might not understand okay so Allah Allah understand all these so he's not going to punish you for and he even accepts that the Quran says over and over and over and over and over and over and over again that yes if you are an unbeliever you're going to help no it's another unbeliever it's a coffer coffer I mentioned for you I said that coffer doesn't mean disbeliever and it specifies again and again that you have to believe in order to avoid have in order to avoid that hell no it says it over and over there's no there's no sense in saying the book doesn't say the only thing it says it says it all the time every you're telling me it doesn't say that at all no the thing is that you you have read the wrong translation okay yes excuse me excuse me I read six translations at once okay yes and then just to make sure that I that I got it correct I then after after I wrote my my analysis my comparison of the of the multiple translations then I had a for every surah I had a video meeting where I would I met with a panel of people who were all raised in islam and who spoke arabic and knew all of the traditions to tell me what I got right or wrong yeah it says the thing you say it never says it says it all the time yeah it does give me a single tell me that I didn't come with evidence I've got the whole damn book every surah says that and you're saying it never says it at all it contradicts itself a lot no and you can't use the one time it contradicts this other thing to say that this is the one thing it means no it doesn't contradict it completes the verses by other verses okay so you know it doesn't it just adds more confusion which is another thing that the Quran got wrong I mean the Quran always says how clear the Quran is and yet I have to read six different translations because they all contradict each other the way that it was translated in from one from arabic into english still produces six translations that that disagree with each other and then I still need a panel of people who who know that the cultural traditions to tell me what the interpretations are and then it all has to cite back to Hadith's written by nobody knows who or nobody does somebody who doesn't know what what they're talking about so it doesn't matter and ultimately it's talking about the reasons you would go to a hell that does not exist there is no hell if there was a god there is no god but if there was a god there would not be a hell so the first thing you need to argue about is show me that there's a god first then prove there is no hell because that's part of the proof that there is a god and then you can't and therefore you're out of place you can't justify Islam after that you're done all right Aaron first of all depend on what is god for you for you might be god somebody who's sitting an entity sitting up there and looking you know down on the universe but for me the god is the universe and we are all inside this so like you're saying you're a giant giant country sorry so you're saying you're a pantheist no i'm not a pantheist i'm you know muslim and i believe you can either adopt a deistic position or you can you can take up the position that maybe we have a consciousness to the universe which is a more pantheistic position but neither of those things are concordant with Islam because Islam is tied to the Quran and the Quran is full of nonsense it says that adam and eve existed when we know they didn't it says that no is our cap and when we know it didn't when it says all these animals were created when we know they were not it says a whole bunch of stupid things about the sun and the moon and the cosmos the firmament all this kind of crap that we know never happened it says that Solomon had genies working for him and that he had the doctor do little power of being able to talk to animals he had a conversation with an aunt we know there's full of fairy tales in here we know these things didn't happen no it doesn't matter if there's a deistic god or not Islam is still failed okay our Quran chapter 3 verse 7 says that those type of verses are unspecific verses of Quran and the only one who knows the the true interpretation of those verses is Allah and those firm in knowledge but those who talk is you're saying that god only knows and there is no god which means nobody knows no all right listen to me i said Allah says only God only Allah and those firm in knowledge okay so there are people who knows but it says that those whose heart is corrupted they try to interpret it in a way suitable for their agenda so you have the poisoning of the well thing going on there so you are going to you listen to some people like these apes you know he just changed everything the way he wants okay and so these type of verses they need you know people who have the right knowledge to explain it you know correctly that Solomon didn't talk to aunts and so on so that's a different you know a long discussion but you said about disbeliever give me a verse so that I can prove you that Quran doesn't say disbelievers okay Quran says kuffar yeah over and over and over again it says that you have you must believe in order to save yourself from the hell it doesn't just say no it offers but i'm not i'm not going to argue the scripture we're arguing we're arguing that whether the whole the collection of all of that which is all full of nonsense okay is that collection true it doesn't matter if there's a god or not it really doesn't if there is a god and there isn't but let's let's pretend for a moment there is if there is a god there still is no hell and islam is still false what why if god punish adolf Hitler do you think that it is just that because god is just okay god is not just in the caron no no no listen no god just in but in both the bible and the caron god judges people not for the actual well in the caron there i'll give you this the caron actually does judge people over evil actions where the bible does not okay but it but what the caron more likely judges for is belief it really does so you you have to believe a certain way or else you're out no this is this is the way this is the way you have been you know persuaded by somebody okay but it is not i read the caron no caron different versions of it yes it wasn't somebody else who who misled me it was the caron said that okay i read for you several verses and i can read yeah you read for me a couple of contradictions yes and then you can say the thing that it says all the way throughout it is not a contradiction it's a completion okay and i it's not a completion if it says if it says one thing and then says the exact opposite thing later no it doesn't say opposite it says that those who do good deeds those who do good deeds they will enter heaven i can read for you many i know it does say that those who do good deeds but it was almost almost consistently i've noticed that the but the caron constantly conflates doing good with believing and it says it even specifies a few times that that not believing is doing evil it conflates those things and it's very explicit about it okay it doesn't say believing it says to be being mo'omen it's about mo'omenu okay and mo'omenu doesn't mean believers it means those who are saved okay those who do not harm people okay so this is all about you'll have to believe okay no it's it does say over and over and over again that believing is doing good that believing means doing good and doing good means believing it does coran says i've made many many notes about that am i coming up okay okay coran says that those who in the hell those who get punished okay when they see the punishment they say oh lord send us back so that we do good deeds if they don't say send us back back so that we believe they say send us back so that we do good deeds so it's about all and i can read for you many verses this all about and i can read for me i can read for you many verses that say what i say too because okay it does say what you say it doesn't say okay and that's not even the issue the issue is the coran is wrong for a whole bunch of different reasons but the bigger thing than that is understanding why there cannot be a hell why that contradicts the notion of god so we can just we just toss out islam islam is wrong because it says there's a hell we it says a lot of things that are wrong but let's let's just focus on the coran saying that there's a hell and we know there's not a hell because there's not a god but even if i you know why you pretend for a moment that there is a god there still isn't a hell and coran is still wrong so you say that you know that there is no hell how do you know that there is no not a hell i'm sorry what you said that you know that there is no hell how do you know that well if there was a god as i said okay first of all hell couldn't exist unless there is your version of god but if there actually was a god then hell still wouldn't exist because the god wouldn't create it nor would the god allow it why because people who have a bullshit story to sell who need to acquire your tithing and need to assume control over your families and your belief systems and your politics they want you to believe made up bullshit stories and and they need you to believe that so badly that if you don't buy the heaven the the impossible promise of the posthumous reward if you don't buy into that then they have to give you the threat of a fate worse than death in order to to you know to control the gullible through fear so that's why hell was invented it's not a concept that would actually exist if there really was a god because god would not mercilessly punish anybody for a turn nobody ever did anything so evil that it would they would have warrant an eternity of being burned alive and skinned alive and tortured by every other means nobody ever deserve that no god would ever do that no god would ever allow that the only reason it exists is as a concept for people who want to evoke fear to extort money and tithing all right okay first of all that is metaphorical that burning and so on because I believe that on other side we are not bodies we are souls and he's not going to you know it's like a nightmare for those who have been like Adolf Hitler like these eyesies and so on such a people I believe that they deserve to be you know judged okay and punished because they were not punished in this life okay so this is and if they just go on you know what is the purpose of punishment the purpose of punishment is that they have you know been hurting people they have been killing people so and god they just punishing them fix that does that make the people not hurt okay that one is up to god to decide okay if it will help but for some people it helps okay for some people they get afraid for for the you know other sides so they will not do bad deeds but some people and I this is I say this is my belief that they should be somehow you know punished for the what they were doing here on this but again because back to the same question I just asked what is the purpose of punishment okay the purpose of punishment because they didn't follow his commands and he's the creator okay he was telling them to do good deeds and they didn't okay okay so what's the purpose so you you said they should be punished why should they be punished why people should be yeah why should people should be punished yeah for their wrong doing okay but why you don't understand that what knows because you know I don't think you understand that that's why I'm asking you yes why should they be punished because they have done such a horrific you know crimes against humanity and they should be so why should they be punished why they should be punished because I said yes because they have done you have done something wrong you have to be okay so you've done something wrong not just something wrong you think that somebody who's done something wrong should be punished why why should be punished right yep why not can you tell me why not tell me why not no Aaron tell me why not so there has to be when you decide to punish someone because it is just because it is how is it just in in what way so you want to punish somebody if you want to find them if the if the punishment is a fine okay we could then apply that fine to say the the next to kin or to the victims you know you'd be like a lawsuit you know so there's a benefit to the person who's been hurt or wronged what I'm trying to get at is when you're punishing someone say if you're say you're going to punish them through a fine okay good now now you've got some restitution for the victim there's some benefit there there's other types of punishment that the result or the purpose of those other types of punishment could be for rehabilitation which I think would be brilliant especially if you're going to have something that's going to live forever forever and ever and ever you can't judge somebody that's going to live 70 billion billion years on a lifespan of what 30 before they get killed or something like that so all right if you're going to be an intelligent being much less a superior being but if you're going to be intelligent at all then there has to be a reason for the punishment what is the goal of the punishment because if it is insane revenge forever and ever and ever and ever and ever and ever then you're not talking about a just God you're talking about an evil God so if there's a benefit if there's a goal if there's some kind of restitution for the punishment then what is that why would you punish someone what's the goal of that what are you trying to achieve look Aaron that's up to God okay because I said beginning okay I said from the beginning I don't follow God let's say it's not up to God let's put it up to you for a moment you're a God or you're somebody and you're going to decide that somebody needs to be punished what is your reason for punishing it is it because you want to get justice for your victims meaning that you need to benefit the victims in some way or you want to rehabilitate the person who's done wrong so that they understand that they've done something wrong you can do better somebody has been killed you cannot benefit by finding that person okay that person's life has been ended so there's no benefit to being tortured mercilessly all there is is the evil of your imaginary God all right okay Aaron my concern is not what's happening next life okay my concern is what's happening on this planet in in this life okay so my concern is that I said from beginning that I follow God not just because he exists I'm not following him because he's going to punish people who do bad deeds okay I'm following him because he has changed our life to a better one okay in the past like we can go through that no it doesn't okay and then he's going to change our life to a perfect life in the future no he doesn't Islam is wrong about that too okay if if Islam everything that that the Quran says about what will happen to us Aaron can I ask a question did Christianity change Romans and Greeks from you know crucifying people killing people in the stadium did Christianity you know abolish all those barbaric acts or not you know sadly because religious people tend to be statistically more in favor of torture of prisoners and they're more in favor of the death penalty and the the highly religious how statistically more likely to be child abusers so how it finished those barbaric acts of Romans and Greeks how it finished how how I can't understand what you say how barbaric acts of Romans and Greeks those killing you know gladiators in the stadiums crucifying people you know although that finished after Christianity yeah they were abolished so how it finished if oh the thing that's still going on was abolished after Christianity okay why why it was abolished abolished well why wasn't it no why so so it was that Christians like to argue that there was a time when they were fed to the lions or whatever because a Christian is not complete if they can't pretend to be persecuted somehow no they didn't do it against Christians and they did it against the slaves yeah they brought the slaves and yeah yeah yeah and the Jews did the same thing so that the Jews before them you mean Moses commanding his people to go murder the Medianites just slaughter everybody burn the village down to the ground take all the booty oh and of the children kill all the mothers right in front of their sons then kill the same kill the sons and in front of any mothers you haven't killed yet but the little girls the preteen girls inspect them to see if they've had sex with a man and if they have not had sex with a man you may keep those preteen versions for yourself nudge nudge all right yes I understand they were I said that yeah and that was that was Moses look I said your god didn't stop that evil he didn't stop the Christian evil he doesn't stop Muslim evil he perpetuates his own deal look according to the stories because he still has this hell concept where you have this disproportionate eternal punishment which by your own admission serves no damn purpose there's no rehabilitation because you're never going to get a chance to learn your lesson that's the thing that really bothers me about the hell concept you have all these people that get no evidence that hell exists they're just told to believe that you better believe and if you don't believe you're going to hell and then you'll say oh I wish that I'd believed what's too late now isn't it and now we're going to punish you for 11 jillion billion years forever and ever times 10 okay you went again to that part I said that I believe that you know religion has changed our life to better no no no religion has changed our lives that's true it has it has impeded retarded or reversed project progress in every application that it has ever touched it has been a net negative against humanity it is responsible for the greatest evils virtually my question was how my question was how those barbaric acts of Romans and Greeks finished there in Europe they just stop it or it was because of Christianity because it started out that Christianity was illegal because they were obnoxious and then with it but once uh once I forget the guy's name I having a senior moment that Constantine once he became Christian within 70 years it became illegal to be anything but Christian and then suddenly you have after Christianity took over then suddenly you've got nine million uh pagan women who were killed by the uh the inquisition simply for not being Christian and that says nothing about the holy wars so yeah religion the Abrahamic god the war god that you worship has been the source of like virtually all evil I mean there's there are some exceptions but most of the greatest evil that has happened in American or human history has been because of belief in your god but that's not what we're arguing about right now we're not arguing about Christianity what was wrong with them we're arguing about Islam the lies that are compiled atop the lies of Christianity so one of the lies that Christianity told was the one about hell yeah and just repeats that same lie yeah I'm just trying to tell you that I said that the biggest miracle is not going to you know change some people's mind okay that's why I was going to tell you that if because I believe that Islam changed people's lives for example Islam saved millions of girls from being buried alive okay that's one of many great you know good things that Islam for example I can give you I'll give you that too that in the pre-islamic times there was that barbaric arabic culture where they they were so sexist that they thought that if you have a girl child and you're only you can only have so many children whether that you don't or you don't have enough money to support everybody well she's a girl so she's without value so let's just bury the the baby in the desert I'm glad that Islam says no you shouldn't bury the girl you should sell her to somebody instead no as long as it doesn't say where it says that you should sell I don't know from where you get these are okay another thing is that again from the Quran have you read it because I don't think you have very have you noticed where it describes your heaven for example this this this is one of the great indictments of the Quran and now injustice it is and since you're talking about the injustice of sexism right now let's look at heaven you get to take however many wives you had on this planet and you can only have not a hall you can only have four unless you're Muhammad himself because special pleading of course you cannot get four wives get four you die you go to take your four wives with you only one wife what only one wife yeah well you can have up to four according to the Quran you really ought to read the Quran because I know I read I already know you should read it so it says that you can have up to four wives I have ready and you get and you take you get to take your wives to heaven or they they come to heaven with you and they're still your wives in heaven but when they get to heaven you also get other virgins you don't get 72 virgins the Quran never says that I don't honestly know where people got the 72 number from it doesn't say that but what it does say is that there are other women who did not exist on the earth who didn't have lives on there they exist only in heaven they are called into existence by God specifically so that they can be virgins to service you so the wives that you had on earth now have to wait in line not only between the other wives but they also have to wait between behind your soulless sex robots that you get in heaven and that's not even the that's that's that's bad enough but there's there's worse there's children also who never grow up who exist in heaven only to be waiters forever they wait on the other children that bring you non-alcoholic beverages while you sit in the great in God's great lobby forever on sofas discussing what your your your heaven is the the epitome of monotony I couldn't imagine worse existence I mean it's hard to imagine being tortured in the hell but I mean the heaven isn't really any better not when you stretch it out over an eternity yes iron these are ways that God was talking to the people of the past okay and I said that the heaven is we are not body we are soul and everything is I believe except there's no soul either yeah everything and we know that so there's no support for mind-body dualism neither in neuroscience nor even in philosophy right where you would exactly expect that there would be if there was such a thing as a soul we would have shown that by now even being supernatural we would still have known it by now if it was real and it's all right all right I believe that although I'm not so I mean Mahatma Gandhi was a you know pagan but I believe that it was was a pagan he was Hindu oh yeah Hindu okay anyway he believed in we call them pagans okay anyway so but yet he was it was great that he came because he benefited humanity okay he saved Indians from you know colonialism so and I believe that Islam Christianity Judaism they benefited you know humanity and for example in China Muslims and Christians you know they don't boil dogs and cats alive they don't grill them alive but some other people who do not believe in these religions they do such a terrible you know acts they they grill dogs alive they they boil them alive so these are some small you know great teachings of these religions that thought people not to be cruel against their animals and it is not only that for example as a as a Persian okay I've seen Muslim traditions let me continue there's some Muslim traditions that are that I've seen videos for where they have like a cow walking through a crowd of people and everybody throws darts at it and and there's all kinds of like you know death by a thousand cuts sort of barbaric ceremonies that are you saying that none of these are real because I've seen them no this is a if if somebody do that this is absolutely against Islam okay but anyway so so all these Muslims do this for Islam and it's absolutely against Islam I haven't you should represent Islam better because there's a whole lot of Muslims no I haven't seen such a things that Muslims do I don't know from I have never seen such a things okay another thing is that I was going to tell you is that as a Persian okay we had a religion despite we were a Persia was a great empire but we never had you know slaves and we never had those crucifixions the stoning and all these things because we had a religion that thought three just three commands good deeds good totes and good you know words okay through these three teachings Persia never had such a barbaric act okay so religion has changed our life to a better one no no it hasn't it has changed every aspect of our lives to be worse okay everything no religion has changed your lives for the worse it's made everything worse okay there's not there's not a good aspect to believing things that are not evidently true you should never be allow yourself to be completely convinced of something that is evidently not true and apologetics is all about trying to make believe things that are not true okay but we know we're not true but the thing is that um Islam has made me a much better person okay okay you're a better person than the Quran okay you are a better person than your Bible than your Quran describes because your Quran is evil all right yes okay and people just in general are better than the atrocious abominable ghastly god that would condemn people for such trivialities as disbelief okay it's not disbelief I said it again many times I know that you were wrong about this you're never going to concede your error but that is exactly what it says over and over again yeah I could just prove you you know you could just I could just prove that I'm right I have all the I have the whole Quran I've already written a book about yes give me a single verse that says and I have every single verse that says exactly what I said it says yes and I prove it yeah Aaron let's check it together okay let's bring up that verse okay and then that verse it's in almost every surah as okay give me one verse it is covered Aaron I say it is not just one verse it's not just one word it's over and over again and it specifies explicitly again and again and again in various places many places over that you have to believe and if you and believing is equivalent to doing good and that doing bad is equivalent to disbelief it does in fact say that over and over and over and over again okay can I share the screen please do you see the screen yes I see the screen yeah you see the screen great this is chapter 16 verse 83 okay look at the translation all right this is about these believers in Quran says they who turn away from it are fully aware of God's blessings but none and the less they refuse to acknowledge them as such since most of them are giving to deny the truth okay well thank you for making my point for me and admitting that the Quran outward lies okay so that's an outright lie about what yeah because because unbelievers do not deny the truth the problem is you don't have truth okay yeah and we're not denying the truth we're not denying the lie we're showing the truth no the truth is what the facts are and you don't have those no all you have is the lie no Aaron please I'm just trying to translate the word kafirun here in Arabic look in Arabic is written kafirun which they here they uh sorry uh it went here in this verse they change it not to disbelievers some of them do that but yeah they didn't change it it's still talking about disbelievers no no it's still talking about disbelief and that is still a lie that's an outright lie where it says the majority of people who don't believe one are aware of God's blessings to that that's a lie and that we deny the truth because that's a lie too okay look there are no blessings to your religion there's there's there's not horror that you have never understood okay you maybe you will because I know a lot of people who come away from Islam no it doesn't say the truth once they become once they become ex-Muslims they realize that the you know that the darkness they lived in that they thought was like Aaron it doesn't say that the truth it's say that they recognize God I'm sorry I thought I thought you just read for me a translation it says that most of them are given to denying the truth that is what it says isn't it I mean that's your citation no that lie right there that lie right there that's Aaron's citation Aaron Aaron Aaron this is many different translation I'm going to come but this is the one you're showing so that's the one you're backing the lie you just showed me is the lie you're trying to push on me right now can you please let me explain please I'm going to show you that one verse how many different translations one verse lied are you gonna at least admit that one verse lied that verse specifically Aaron Aaron I'm saying that it is one verse okay there are and it is a lie no there are many yes it is a lie okay what is lie can you tell me it says that they recognize when you say something that is not true no deceptive effect that is a lie okay that statement is a lie it's that statement says that the majority of those who do not who refuse to acknowledge it did God's blessings one we don't refuse so there's a third lie in the same sentence it's not that we refuse we don't believe the empty unsupported assertion of impossible nonsense okay and then it is not the majority it says the majority of us are given to denying the truth no the vast majority of us and I would say the entirety but let's just be charitable and say the majority of us want the truth and only care about the truth and Islam is not the truth Aaron Aaron says it's the truth because it is a lie and every lie says it's the truth Aaron you don't let me to talk please okay I say all right go ahead and continue live for answers for answers most of them are coffer okay here somebody else has put uh it is chibi our wing yeah they recognize God's favor then they uh this sorry disregarded most of them are disbelievers okay another one says and most uh sorry most of them are the one who are ungrateful most of that conforms to what I said earlier I'm just saying Aaron listen to me please right so we agree so you you can go to you can go to muslim hell even if you're a believer we agree on that too okay my iron I'm just telling you that coffer here doesn't mean disbelieve okay when it comes to most to all again it's not down to one word and it's not down to one verse no it is not about over and over and over again I I couldn't cite all the verses I can give you I already have but they're in my book you'd have to get the whole book I can't give you Aaron I can give you many verses okay and I can give you many verses that prove that you're wrong okay and this is this one that you've just cited is a lie I tell you that this is three lies in one sentence that I counted so far look let me tell you Quran says disbelievers okay most of disbelievers are coffer it doesn't say all disbelievers are coffer but it does say that the majority of the unbelievers are given to denying the truth no that is a lie it is not it says favor it is a lie what you say is the majority doesn't apply to anybody there's nobody who denies nobody who denies the Quran or who who fails to believe in the Quran is necessarily given to denying the truth I know lots of people who are given to denying the truth I call them Christians okay and so those people may you know that the Christians may reject the Quran because they're not because they're given to denying you know the the truth of reality and that's why they're Christian but it has nothing to do with given with rejecting the truth of Islam because there is no truth to Islam Islam itself is a lie no it is not about rejecting Islam is just about rejecting of course that's all that verse was talking about no if the verse is talking they know they know the favor of Allah and then they deny it okay then deny it okay but they don't know that and they don't deny that it says most of them are coffer most of them it doesn't say most of them are disbelievers most of them are those who do bad deeds okay it's about doing bad deeds kuf it's about doing committing bad deeds I can give you many verses that says that and I can give you many verses that contradict you and show that I'm right and I already have listed many verses that show that I'm right and that you're wrong so so you say so you say kuf kuf means disbelief yeah no that's not what I said quit strong I've already corrected that same error four or five times in this conversation quit repeating that mistake which mistake the one where you pretend that I'm saying that coffer is the only word after no matter how many times I've corrected that mistake of yours you keep repeating that same mistake no but you say kuf kuf that's not what I'm saying so what is kufr can you tell me I don't care what kufr is I said it's not down to one word and it's not down to one verse there are different descriptions in various places throughout the Quran where it says that you must believe and it equates that believing equals doing good and disbelief equals being bad the word kufr doesn't always come up it's not dependent on that one word please don't make me explain the same thing to you again no you say that these believers go to hell which I tell you that these believers don't go to hell according to the Quran but we know that there is no Quran so we we know that there is no hell okay and that there is no god and if there was a god all right Quran would still be wrong and Islam would still be wrong so it's pointless to even discuss this let's get back to the topic Islam is Islam true no not about a damn thing not about one single thing all right let me tell in this way okay Aaron I say that humanity has two ways okay it is either to live in this you know sinful or jungle sinful world or this jungle that the strongest one get the most and the weakest one get little or nothing and everybody wants to kill each other you know to become richer and richer or they have to live in a world where they love one another they share everything with each other so humanity has these two ways okay if you want to live in this jungle then we don't need Islam we don't need Christianity we don't need anything because this jungle is run by our nature okay but if you want to live in that human world where we love one another there is no religion and adopt secular humanism okay that's good if you can I say that we can definitely give up religion which is the source of all the evil you were just talking about okay and we can just have humanist values which is where I'm at okay so if you if we want to live in what you call the jungle and I call reality okay and we can do that and we can have brotherly love and humanitarian concerns and we can just give up pretending to believe things that are not really true okay no but look if that's not a big deal okay the big deal is that if you can create that word I believe this is my belief according well I'd like to create that world there's just one huge impediment in the way and that's religion okay that's I know once we get rid of religion no we can stop religion from changing people's lives for the worst but if religion if religion says okay if religion also says that we have to live in that world do you think that it is not helpful you for your word that your word you because I believe it is the jungle my world view such as it is such it could be summarized with this I don't want to be fooled into believing anything that is not evidently true no no but Aaron if the religion back you up okay why shouldn't you uh accept it for example I if a religion were to back me up then I would accept it but since no religion backs you up then I am forced to reject it okay but my religion backs you up and say that but it doesn't your religion contradicts everything that is good about humanity okay your religion is a perversion of our nature all right your religion is evil no religion in general is evil but yours is most evil among them okay so so you mean that if I say love one another okay that's you the Quran doesn't no the Quran says to judge people eternally no for the mind crime of disbelief yeah that's that's and for the mind crime of having other beliefs yeah because the whole god of Abraham thing it doesn't matter which version it is okay I mean and this this is something I noticed when I was eight years old okay I was always hearing about wars in the Middle East I was always hearing about conflicts and I thought it's strange that the Jews the Muslims and the Christians each of them claim to be the religion of peace and that all of them claim to have the same god who is the god of loving forgiveness and mercy and yet these three religions have been at war with each other each since their inception and apparently will be at war eternally proving that yours is not the god of peace or loving forgiveness no it is not so right it is not so that's why you give up your religion I don't say wrong it's not just that the Quran says a bunch of stupid things that we know are not true it's not just that your your religion believes things that are socially backward you don't listen to me it's just evil the concept that you have to believe that we have to control what people think I don't I that alone is evil but the fact that it is constantly using every logical fallacy throughout the Quran to just simply assume your conclusion the question begging fallacy is riddled through that book I don't that's another reason why you should give it up the fact that you have to do the submission five times a day where you have to do the culturally forced submission to prayer even if you don't believe that alone is evil that is evil enough by itself without anything else added in I think we should I think that abandoned that belief I think that you should give you the last word uh perfect awa and then we've got to go to the q&a yeah I think that you shouldn't go uh you shouldn't talk about things that you are not so you know uh knowledgeable in oh you're right that's why I'm talking about this and that's why you should take your own advice read the damn book you're trying to perfect you're trying to protect right now let me talk let me talk you said that Christianity Judaism and Islam they are at war no they are not at war it is just the powers who abuse religions they want for example I know that you in that debate with Daniel I call him Daniel Isis Jew sorry what Daniel Isis Jew hasn't got you but I call him Isis Jew because he's a very terrible person for me his religion is terrible for me if that's Islam I'm the biggest enemy of that Islam okay so you have to understand for that yes you have to understand that my Islam the Islam I believe is totally different to that Islam so if you please if you arrange a debate between me and him I will prove you that he doesn't have any knowledge of Islam okay can you do that because I have asked James but unfortunately I'd love to see that too I mean clearly he didn't have any knowledge of atheism no he did not he's he's a alright I think we'll jump into the Q&A because you're both going against Daniel who's not here to defend himself so we're going to jump into the Q&A we've got a number of questions here folks I'm going to read through them as fast as possible so I want to say first Zagros ask him thanks for your question says according to the Quran where does sperm come from all right that it is doesn't say that it's coming from the back bones it is about you know that children are the back you know it is in Arabic they say for example you know I have your back for example you know it's something that it's coming from this the same generation all right so it doesn't say that it comes from back bones it's just something misunderstanding and misinterpretation misinterpretation all right misunderstanding and misinterpretation it doesn't say it is because everybody knew that from where sperm comes okay okay but but everybody didn't know that the people back know that there was such a mammalian egg that hadn't been discovered until centuries later they didn't know the egg so you know Muhammad wrote and by Muhammad I don't necessarily believe there was a Muhammad clearly this was a group effort but whoever cobbled together the Quran believed that that that men were the only provider of the vital juice that became humans and they just had to put it in the womb they didn't realize it was an egg there so they called it a clot of blood or they called it a drop of water you know that they contradict themselves a few times but then they also say that seminal fluid comes from between the backbone and the ribs which is just bad anatomy even for the time okay I said that what it says and it's up to people to you know to interpret it themselves and wouldn't you think that if God had written this book that he could have done a better job that argument in the 21st century this wouldn't still be going to he could have praised it a little bit better yeah I don't I have said it many times before as well God could send a prophet today and split the moon and so on but he decided he didn't need to send a prophet at all he could have just spoken to all of us at the same time there are a ton more questions I got to move to this this is how I can ask as well why does the Quran claim that waters do not mix at estuaries and then in parentheses put 25 53 and 55 19 I think they're referring to verses or passages they say because they definitely do mix looks like God didn't know science all right this I haven't been actually powering about such a things because for me the most important is that how Quran and Islam guide me and guide humanity to live today and to guide us to a better world okay so these are and some people take it as they take videos from seas that they are not mixed to two different you know color of water that they don't mix so this is they say that this is a miracle because how prophet Muhammad knew that the water doesn't mix and there are places that the water doesn't mix okay so for me that's not a big issue that I have to you know reject those beautiful messages verses of Quran that says love one another and forgive people and how to live to reject all those verses just because maybe this you know verse I don't understand what exactly it says okay you got it this one coming in from do appreciate it pancake of destiny says aran what beer do you drink now and how good is it right now I'm having a local brew this is lakewood brewery temptress the temptress is I think 10% ABV but it's it's pretty low for me but at least it's double digits and it is an imperial stealth that's almost all I drink now you got it man tom christensen I didn't see a question let me know in the live chat if you tag me with that 180 debate I'll read it industrial nerd says aran how amazing is bacon I don't know are you a bacon fan bacon yeah I yeah I have a problem with it's I have a moral conflict with bacon because I had a pet pig and I've had a hell of a time eating pork ever since wow and this one from samir far saying says aran is wrong even at the time of joseph in 16 000 bc I think they mean 1600 which is not the right time they say they knew there are plain plainers documented also let's see yeah that's not the right time I don't know what the time of joseph 1600 bc yeah six that would be that would be earlier than joseph and and sorry that's joseph is one of the oldest books that you the story of joseph isn't isn't that old oh I screwed that up it was so they did originally I said 16 000 instead of 1600 so it wouldn't matter 1600 is still too old this one from tanky says aran if you were starting a cult what would you do differently from Islam to make it spread faster oh I don't even want to think about that because if I were to start a cult I would be so rich so fast this one coming in from astrohead says aran I'm at a bar can't watch it live but I'll catch the replay tomorrow but I can imagine how this is heading love the beard by the way thank you this one I just would like to say very fast that after this debate I'll go lives for those who would like to you know continue and ask questions I go live on my channel perfect hour the link is there so they can call in and I would like to talk to you later again our that would be correct all of the all of the different suras that I was talking about in my compiled book you can read all of the my analyses of each sura already on my channel aranraw.com all right just look for the sura in question everything that you you said the Quran does not say it actually does say and I point them out okay and then I will call you write you then we can discuss this on your channel perhaps later when I read those yes I look forward to your call thank you and and I hope that you don't take it as a debate because I don't see you as a bad person okay it's not a debate for me I don't see you as a bad person either this conversation all right I look I look at believers I mean I have to realize that that everybody that is in the atheist movement all the all my activist friends they were all former believers I was a reborn Christian once upon a time way back when I would I'm more neo pagan that was more of my religious tradition but I know people who were former missionaries and seminary students and ministers and talk radio hosts and everything for Christian channels and I don't hate believers believers are afflicted with something I can cure yeah all right you got it these coming in from appreciate it Jacob gross that and that reminds me housekeeping stuff folks both of our guests are linked in the description and that includes if you're listening via the podcast all of the debates at modern day debate the youtube channel end up on the podcast for modern day debate but you can find it virtually any podcast app and we put our guest links there too if you're watching via youtube open up a new tab and then you'll for sure remember to check out their links you can put their links in that new tab and that way you can finish the rest of this debate as this next question is coming in from Jacob who says perfect Dawa it's probably frustrating to have other people tell you how to interpret the Quran are there reliable means or methods that provide independent verification that one's interpretation is correct uh yeah because you have to put verses beside each other uh Quranic verses okay if you have the right where uh you know into I mean verses that you put them together and you can prove them you can show that your your uh you know your interpretation is reliable okay not just take one verse of Quran and say that's all all right so uh by giving the evidences from Quran itself then you can prove that you have the reliable uh you know interpretation you got it this one coming in from Zagros Ozkan strikes again says is if jinn's or demons and Islam are made of fire verse 15 26 or 27 and they interact with humans verse 34 12 how can we never see them with our infrared detectors all right that's uh very very uh you know uh difficult uh you know subject because I believe myself that jinn are not on this planet jinn uh haven't there is no any direct verse that Quran says that they have been in contact with uh human for me jinn is unseen okay we don't see them okay so when we don't see them we cannot have contact with them so for me jinn's is the name for uh for aliens that god has other creatures not only humans but other creatures but they are not here we don't see them because they are not on this planet they are on their planets okay and we don't have any contact with them so I haven't seen any verse of Quran that say we have had direct contact with the jinn's okay you got it this one coming in from do appreciate your questions that Q says crucifixion didn't end with Christianity it continued into Islam and Christianity in fact introduced it to Japan in the Sengoku period which is around 1500 after 350 years without capital punishment all right and perhaps it's uh uh it's explanation but I believe because I know that after Christianity came to Europe it didn't stop right away definitely but slowly slowly Christianity by Christianity it stopped in ancient Romans and Greeks so I believe that that was the work of Christianity this is if you you can call in after this debate on my channel we can discuss it okay let's see if you have better proof Sam Harris's bulldog says arin would you please be willing to debate cliff and stewart again that's one of our most popular debates is arin you and t jump debating cliff and stewart what do you think up for another cliff and stewart couldn't maintain themselves when they couldn't they couldn't stay on topic and and they were looking for not a gotcha they were they were looking for a moment of outrage so if they would say something that was outrageous to the point where they say something that is so stupid so wrong that it would that it would evoke an emotional response and I replied accordingly I would see a smile oh we said something that is so damn dumb so dishonest that it riled our opponent we're winning that's not a strategy and so I'm I have no interest in debating them because they're not being sincere that that's a problem I mean I I debate a lot of people just like one time because the the insincerity is what gets me these people don't care what the truth is they're all about trying to defend a lie and by any means even underhanded this one coming in from realist realist says does arin deny that to argue that we'll figure out acts someday with no temporal restriction is to commit an escape to the future fallacy and to make an unfalsifiable claim since it can be repeated forever no I don't it's not not only do I not deny that that is my argument against against most prophecies you got it's as Zachary's oscan strikes again says the Quran says people need to be flogged for adultery perfect Dawah and they say 24 verse 2 say they say so you support Taliban women or Taliban when they flog women of Afghanistan for Zina okay perfect Dawah I'm not supporting such a things actually this is if you follow Quran then it is impossible to flog anybody because this flagging was an alternative to that barbaric act of stoning because people were stoning adulterers to death so Quran came with this you know flagging 100 lashes but Quran put conditions that is impossible to you know meet these conditions for witnesses you have to bring four witnesses who have seen this adultery not even that they came out from you know a house or whatever but you have to have seen the actual you know adultery and these four witnesses they must complete 10 conditions that it's almost impossible that you can find a single of them because they have must have never lied they must have never forgotten their prayers and so on so they have never stolen anything so you cannot find a single of them so there are everything there that you cannot you know uh flag them because we are all sinners and the way Jesus peace be upon him also said the the one who has no sin can chew the first stone because we are all sinners we cannot punish people punishment is only on God's side is not on our side okay because we are all always can be we always can be wrong and people can you know repent okay so we cannot punish people that's uh yes that's uh if you you follow it perfectly Quran then you cannot do that yes so what would you say are the two or three most Muslim countries in the world who who follow Islam the closest which one two or three countries there is no none of them I haven't okay well that that explains a lot because you know we we've had like Iran and and and a few others that definitely did flog people and you're saying that if you follow Quran it's impossible to do yes yes you know what Iran Iranian the Quran advocates it but if you follow the Quran then you can't do what the Quran advocates I don't I'm Iranian okay I've been fighting Iranian regime in 43 years this fascist ISIS regime was placed there by UK and USA and they have been supporting them until today you know they are a bunch of mafia they don't believe in anything they believe in money they worship money so they do all these to oppress people they kill that girl that poor girl to oppress people not that day because they believe in Islam so unfortunately uh you you have to know so Raif bought away in Saudi Arabia okay made a Facebook post against Islam he was sentenced to 10 years in prison estranged from his wife from his wife for the rest of his life and given I think it was 40 lashes yeah Saudi Arabia doesn't follow Quran according to you let me read for you let me read for your verse verses of Quran Quran chapter 107 verse one have you seen the one who denies the religion that is the one who repulse the orphans the orphan and does not encourage the feeding of the pool so who to those who pray yet are not mindful of their prayers those who only show off and refuse to give even the simplest aid those in power there they are living in gold golden you know golden um private jets and so on so Quran says that they are the same like uh the one who disbelieve who doesn't uh feed the poor and encourages you know uh support so these are in the summer they just show off that so so in the summary the 40 lashes that were given to Raif by the way yes and the 10 years in prison yes those were because Saudi Arabia does not follow Quran no that's not followed the Quran that's okay that's I just wanted one clear statement to that yes not not Iran Iran you know uh I mean I would disagree because the Quran actually advocates that but I wanted to get your position on it clearly no no I said that that's that was because if you understand Quran then you you know that you cannot punish anyone okay that rehabilitation that you were talking about yes it is what we oh well then again you've got a contradiction because you've got a certain point in the Quran where it says let those other the the un let the unbelievers be as they are let you know God will sort them out but then you get to a point where the Quran says no fuck it kill them no okay we will talk because that's another subject and it takes time because I think that James want to go on otherwise we can do it on your channel I would be more than happy okay because maybe I wouldn't mind I wouldn't mind to follow up because that way I can gather up all the verses that say the thing that you said that the Quran never says because it says it a lot okay I will I will even your own citation you're the one verse that you cited for me that verse said the thing that I said it said that you said the Quran doesn't say your citation said it I will contact you okay this one from Cameron Hall says drinking camel urine can spread a disease called mrs.-cov so m-e-r-s-cov why would the prophet recommend it if he knew that he was what he was talking about okay that's a trash fabricated hadith okay and I believe that there are not only I believe that all Muslims believe that there are millions of fabricated hadithes but unfortunately some Muslims who don't think they believe in those fabricated hadithes these are something that pagans were doing unfortunately in India they drink you know cow urine so perhaps in arabia they were drinking camel urine so they wanted to keep this tradition so they put these you know fabricated hadith that say that prophet Muhammad said and that's not the entire hadith hadith continues to show that prophet Muhammad was a brutal barbaric man okay because he killed eight people in such a barbaric act for one person despite Quran says so many verses against such an act and that's absolutely goes against Quran and any hadith so I'm not a Quranic because people usually accuse me for being Quranic so any hadith that goes against Quranic verses is fabricated okay that's all this one coming in from do appreciate it Balthazar 228 says and they're quoting you Muji according to them they say that you say quote Jesus didn't get everything right but my religion 700 ish years later did they say how is it any more predictive than Mormonism in 1830 if all of the explanations are equally valid they all are equally incorrect all right I'm not going to discuss Christianity and other religions okay because here I'm just to defend Islam so I'm not I have more Christian yes I haven't said that that anything you know against Christianity and I will not because I don't want to hurt any brother or sister Christian brothers and sisters okay so I'm not going to say anything against Christianity or other religions yes Jacob I would I would suggest that you might want to consider yourself a Christian because you see more in line with them than with Islam okay that's a very strange idea about what Islam says I've heard that many times many I'm not surprised somebody yeah somebody in the chat I don't I'm sorry James I want to interject so somebody in the chat suggesting wondered whether I attack Judaism just as harshly as I attack Christianity or Islam I have to point out that the vast majority of my scriptural attacks have been against the Hebrew Bible so the Jews actually get it worse than anybody else you got it and this one from Jacob Grosek says Aron is there any amount of psychologically satisfying ideas or examples of people whose lives were improved by Islam that would result in convincing evidence for Islam no because but it's it's fundamentally incorrect if you adopt a belief and you can adopt many different beliefs that can completely change your lives I mean you can adopt a new hobby that changes your life you can adopt a new political ideology that the fact that your life changed for the adoption of some new obsession has nothing to do with whether that obsession is true in this in this case we're talking about a collection of doctrines is the doctrine true now if you live by this doctrine or you think you do but you're not really you're living by some romanticized version of it then you will pretend that your adoption of this belief will have it has a positive effect but it doesn't mean that what the thing that you're pretending to believe is real or that it's factually accurate you got it and this one coming in from tropes says aron you keep calling out lies this presupposes an objective truth where that's correct and we have an objective truth and I already said what it was at the beginning of the show they say well you uh predicted this question well they say where does truth come from in your worldview what is your foundation for moral right or wrong and truth or once again the truth is what the facts are what we can show to be true not whatever else we might assume or imagine beyond or instead of that and as far as morality I like to to default back to Scott Clifton's classic video on a treatise on morality where we know that a given act is immoral or wrong if it and I don't remember how he how all of he how he phrased it but if it causes unnecessary harm or suffering or whatever we understand objectively everybody everywhere understands that we should not unnecessarily cause harm or suffering to some other person we we know that that that's objectively immoral so I don't understand why there's a difficulty in that when we look at when we have an understanding of what is moral and what is not it's easy to take that standard that we all understand and then apply it to God and especially the Abrahamic God comes out as evil you got it this one coming in from Zagros Oz can strikes against as Moogies Islamic Utopia is equivalent to Smurf village I don't understand that I don't either I hated the Smurfs so I don't know this one okay yeah I can answer because Zagros I know him and he always say that I have to say that this because something hasn't happened doesn't mean that for example the society we have today in Sweden would be you know such a utopia for people hundreds of years ago but today is it has happened okay and even today if you go to Africa and say that such a country exists they might not believe you that such a system and country exists that you know so for you this is beyond maybe your imagination okay you are like a baby in the womb that you don't know beyond that womb there is another world okay so for you maybe it is just imagination but for me and according Quran that's going to happen and it's a promise from God that is going to happen one day we are going to live in peace and love one another and share everything with each other yes this one from some year far saying says aran you heard the hadith about the unbeliever lady whom Prophet Muhammad told his companions went to heaven for a starving dog she fed water in her shoe right I have not heard that redacted no you got it in this one I haven't heard it from asri schizophrenia says sir aran you said there is no benefit in torture or punishment but another way of looking at it is the criminals wanted things that are bad therefore Allah is only giving it to them what is your feedback nobody wants you know well you know same person wants to be you know tortured certainly not mercilessly certainly not for eternity you know it and you know people will come up with justifications for the evil that they do they'll know that it's evil because we don't we know what is objectively evil but people will often come up with excuses to justify it and those justifications very often come with victim blaming or with religious righteousness that that person had it coming anyway and people who have a personal god or especially bad at this so when you have somebody to when you send somebody to prison for life and and the option is the death penalty they think they have a personal relationship with god their personal magic imaginary friend has forgiven them for whatever they've done and their and their version of god their imaginary friend that they're calling god understands why they were justified in whatever terrible thing that they did and all they have to do is get get past the life sentence if they can get the death penalty then they'll be right away associated with god and they'll be in heaven where god has forgiven them and offered them great promises so that's why the death penalty is ineffective as a deterrent it's a way of escaping the sentence of life imprisonment you got it this one coming in from do appreciate your question m doug says does surah and nisa 434 apply in heaven or can the wives hit back i didn't understand i could read it if you'd like it says in the Quran that you can beat your wife i know it doesn't say your wife so severely what the question the question is asking is whether the wife can hit back okay the thing is that the Quran doesn't say uh hit your wife okay it just says it doesn't say it doesn't say yes it does this i i tell you okay Quran says i can bring for you also you know interpretation or better say translation that it says you know leave them i can read for you and it doesn't make sense for for me that such a let me read for you such a god that says beat your wife in chapter 6 65 verse 6 says that let the woman who are undergoing a waiting period this is a woman that you are have divorced okay live in the same manner as you live yourself in accordance with your means and do not harass them with the view to making their lives a misery so god tells me to treat a woman that i maybe hate i just have divorced and i have to live with her three months okay in such a way okay and then on another side god tells me to beat my wife that i'm going to live with her no chapter 434 says that after the two steps leave her and chapter 435 says and in case you fear split between the two then sent forth a judge from his family and a judge from her family in case they both are willing to act rightously so it's about both of them not one of them i love that you're not addressing the question at all question the passage where the Quran does advocate physical discipline for wives does it also permit that the wife can hit back the answer is no you know it's no i know it's no the audience knows the answer is no the answer is not is never says to beat your wife the answer is that the the Quran does no definitely does say that you can physically discipline your wife and no she is not allowed to hit back that's a backward Islam chapter 30 verse 21 says an amount his size is this that he created for you mates from among yourself that you may find trans quality in them and he has put love and mercy between you so such a god who has put love and mercy between you allows you to beat your wife come on okay so don't please don't i'm sorry that your book contradicts itself so often contradict itself yes it definitely does it is it is wrong understanding and i said for you chapter three give me about a month give me about a month to compile my notes for the book into a single unit and then i can show you all of the different all of the different verses that contradict everything you just said so that everything you said that it doesn't say it actually does say including your own citation earlier today all this one coming in from m da oh we got that one jc xxx says who will win the world cup for debaters and the moderator i have no idea what are you guys i don't know i don't watch i think argentina is in it right i don't know who is in the final i think it's today right i have no idea that sports must be tomorrow must be tomorrow oh it's tomorrow thank you you're right it's france and argentina i uh because nobody believes me does it i feel like i look like messy do i look like messy a little bit the argentina player so i'm rooting for argentina maybe i don't look like it's my imagination but anyway we look like brothers notion slaves says why do you waste your time on some opponent let's see making up complete opposite of mainstream and historical islam so i think that they're accusing you are in of making up uh the complete opposite of mainstream his historical islam or well i don't i'm not talking about mainstream historical islam i'm talking about what the quran actually says i don't know if everything that i said that the quran actually says it actually does say and i do have a third book coming out where i detail all of these things so anybody in your chat that wants to pretend that it doesn't say that you'll see where it exactly does say that over and over and over and over again this maybe i was even wrong they say could this have actually been for mootie or i mean perfect dollar they say why do you waste your time on some opponent or what i'm what i'm trying to say is maybe this is meant for aran namely they're maybe saying that perfect dawah is making up the complete opposite of mainstream historical they didn't tell me i don't know who is for this one coming in but he did say that you can't follow the quran and flog prisoners and we've seen how many different muslim countries do in fact do that so the majority of muslims don't follow the quran according to him no they don't do that because unfortunately they just abuse you know islam and for their own power chapter three verse seven says it is he who has sent down to you oh muhammad the book in it are verses that are precise they are the foundation of the book and others unspecific as for those whose heart is corrupted they will follow that of it which is unspecific so it means that if you don't understand it you don't have to follow those unspecific verses like chapter four verse 33 desiring to create confusion and their own interpretation and no one knows it's true interpretation except Allah and those fear in knowledge so if you want to interpret quranic verses first of all you have to be a muslim because if you are not a muslim you were interpreted in the way that you want to create confusion so no but what if you don't want to create confusion what if you what if you're like me and you want to make sure to remove all the create all of the confusion that the quran has written into it we want to eliminate confusion have a clear understanding then you're gonna you're gonna read multiple translations so that you get you so you have an idea what they're all talking about and then you're gonna have a panel of people who understand islam and who understand arabic and can can eliminate all that confusion for you and spend three and a half years studying that just so that some idiot in the in the chat can tell me oh you has a wrong understanding of islam i got a better understanding of islam than many muslims do quran chapter okay let me fast say quran chapter 43 verse five strike is ignore shall we utterly ignore you because you are a one-ton fold quran chapter four verse 101 strike is trouble so there are many many verses in quran that use the same word the strike but it means something else so just don't take one so whenever the quran lies we find a contradiction to that lie we just ignore that it said that and pretend that it said something else no quran said that those filming knowledge understand the true interpretation means that they don't contact god wait wait wait those those who fear knowledge fear those who are firm in knowledge fear what's the knowledge i don't understand what you're saying shut up dog what is fear man only not allah says only god and those fear in knowledge those who have knowledge good knowledge okay filming knowledge only they understand how they understand they don't call god but they put the verses beside each other and they understand if they don't say oh it is contradiction no they say it is completion okay so if you understand it explain this verse explain if you understand it then you know it is a contradiction and it doesn't matter how much poisoning of the well or other logical fallacies the quran tries to use we understand that those are logical fallacies as i said you have to be first as i said you have to be first first muslim to understand no no no you don't have to be muslim because that's that's one of the many things you've gotten wrong tonight you don't need to be muslim you don't need to believe the nonsense to understand what the nonsense says all right that that's what what quran says that you have to be i know the quran says a lot of things that are not true but that's just one of them you don't have to be muslim to understand what the hell the fairy tales are saying okay to interpret it you have to be a muslim to interpret it to interpret it in such a way that you still believe it well then you got to have something going wrong in your head but you don't need to you don't need to be a believer okay to understand what the quran is saying no but see through the quran you don't it's better if you're not a believer okay to understand the quran and and i would say that reading the quran especially if you're not if you don't read it in the original arabic if you read it in a translation to your home language and if you read it with a panel of people who understand it then you're not going to be a muslim anymore okay i said what i said yes this one coming in from do appreciate your question realist realist we don't have too much time left folks i'm gonna try to read through as many as we can but we're gonna wrap up pretty shortly here realist realist says can aran provide empirical evidence for a neurological state of quote unquote non-belief in gods that is distinguishable from belief in the non-existence of gods yes this one coming in from let's see shout out to james the gang defreak says also please tell aran to unmute me all right well got you duly noted as re schizophrenia i think you got that let me jump over to these questions oh wait we did have a couple of other ones coming in in the meantime let me read just a couple of these had come in earlier thanks for your membership support folks and by the way hey if you haven't yet if you enjoy this debate hit that like button that really does mean a lot we appreciate your support pakistan's mango says question to perfect dawa is having a blue beard halal can you remind us what halal halal means in islam i didn't answer blue beard blue beard so like aran's died beard i mean i think that's died but is it no it's natural it's always been this okay is it is halal a sin or is it a like unconventional or what is that if it doesn't yeah if it doesn't harm anybody then it is not a sin okay okay if it doesn't harm anybody it doesn't i don't think it harms anybody yeah you got it there's a whole lot of halal that isn't halal then mr morpheus says muslims collecting fake hadiths sahi ain't sahi and then says is dawa saying muslims are liars i don't say and there are there i mean there are people who call themselves they are liars they are killers they are murderers and so on so don't think that everybody is muslim as they even koran has a chapter chapter hypocrite yeah that says that they were even people around prophet muhammad himself who were uh you know saying that they are muslims they are believers but they were lying yes there are liars but not all muslims are liars of course yeah this one from zagro there there's you have a choice between deceivers and deceived zagros oscan says why be a member of a marxist nek terrorist group all right are you part of this terrorist group muji perfect okay okay uh uh james uh this is uh something uh a trash that iranian fascist regime okay has put this uh in uh countries and western countries as well to follow to destroy to attack the biggest enemy of iranian regime organization democratic organization that i follow the thousands of european uh you know parliamentarian american senators just few days ago uh many of the senators and uh you know congressmen have been supporting the my organization and this organization was in u.s and europe terrorist list a court okay a court in europe a court in london and a court in washington asked these countries to come with a single evidence that this group is a terrorist organization they couldn't come with a single evidence in many many years and then in 2009 a court in london forced the uk to remove emmy k from terrorist list a court in washington in 2012 forced us government to remove emmy k from terrorist list because we are simply fighting for freedom and we have uh you know we have many supporters millions of supporters amount even uh you know uh donald trump's uh you know uh what is it his deputy uh what was his name um mike penns his foreign minister mike Pompeo they support my organization how can they support a terrorist organization so this guy he just say nonsense words okay without any fact because my organization is the biggest enemy of iranian fascist regime that's why of course there will be a lot of you know they try to demonize my organization which they have done it in many but uh fortunately uh those clouds are going away they have gone you know through the court if you have an evidence you should come to washington court you should come to the london court okay not that all these countries not a single uh you know evidence yes this one from yashore the king says perfect dawa do you pay zakat or support financially any suni mosque or organization if so then you support the true suni islam that you don't like no i'm not suni i'm not sure i believe in you know whatever is right i believe in christianity whatever is right in christianity in judaism oh i didn't realize you believe in whatever is right i didn't know you were an atheist no no no i believe in everything is right okay so i'm not a suni i'm not a shia and i yes i support my organization okay because i believe that they are doing a great job to bring the biggest enemy of mankind in iran so i'm supporting them i today i was in a demonstration in minus five but so i've been fighting this regime 43 years and i if i get some money i help it i give it to my organization because i believe that that's goes the best way then these mosques that a backward mullah is just using that to fool people you're talking so softly i can barely hear you but this one coming in from balthazar 228 says with islam as it was written in 700 being purported to be true does this qualify as an ancient day debate i'd never get old it has a shelf life that lasts for eternity m dog says how can a la be infinitely just and infinitely merciful at the same time i didn't understand what he meant i think they mean like if a la is infinitely merciful then why the my guess is there maybe talking about the obvious contradiction is the existence of hell as a concept that's i think what they were getting at that's what i was going to guess we have been discussing that a la is also just so he's not going to allow that as he says okay and then another place he says that didn't she know that a la the entire universe belonged to a la and he can forgive or punish whomever he will so we don't know how long he keep them and who he he will punish and so on so this is up to him and this is we will know that after this live we don't know that today okay so he he decided and i'm not going to interfere in that this one from mojo says i have a short question are in raw why does the Quran say we and refer a la mostly as being the Quran is talking about did angels talk the Quran is is written in queens english where they where the the the god refers to themselves in the plural we are not amused gotcha and this one coming in from notion slaves says unironically the corrupt person interpreting Quranic verses corruptly and ignoring every single islamic scholar is this perfect quote unquote da wa guy okay and uh that's uh actually uh not every it's a lie as well that every uh you know scholar interpreted in that way it's a big lie because there are scholars especially today there are scholars who are coming out and interpreted differently and go against the mainstream who have been uh unfortunately a bunch of business men whose uh job was selling god and the quantity was important not the quality of the product they sell so and they were afraid to go against the mainstream because they would lose their job perhaps so don't please uh say that every you know scholars now there are scholars today that they go against such an interpretation all right this one coming in from zagros oscan strikes again he says me k's own website says this is the group that they alleged to be a terrorist group that they say you're a part of they say says that they are marxist muslims also all iranians know that m ek killed its own members who wanted to leave and civilians as well perfect da wa okay that's uh i said that if he had such a evidence he should come to washington court i can give you the date it was 2012 that washington court uh didn't get a single evidence from helary clinton uh it was uh i think it was spring as 2012 that washington court wrote a letter to helary clinton and said that we gave you 180 days to come with a single evidence to the court but you disappear 600 days so give we give you time until uh end of october 2012 if you don't come with a single evidence we will remove it ourselves and helary clinton wrote a letter to the court and said that oh i'm busy i have these i have that i cannot you know so and and then she waited waited because they were appeasing iranian fascist regime so she waited waited at the last day she removed m ek from terrorist list because she didn't have a single evidence to come to the court so azri if you have or uh zagros if you had a single evidence you an iranian fascist regime you should come to the court and present those evidences even there was a london court as well okay so another thing is that about marxist you know and such a thing if we believe in equality it doesn't mean that we are marxist okay we believe in equality and yes the enemies they call us marxist islamist okay but we believe in equality and that's in quran that one day the entire planet will leave equal okay you got it with that want to keep our promise for our speakers they're very busy we want to get him out of here on time want to say a huge thank you to both perfect dawa and are in raw it's been a true pleasure to have you gentlemen thank you very much i just remind once again i go live right now and for those who would like to contact me every saturday i go live as well so please join me and we continue to talk there and aron i will contact you for for their you know discussion if that's okay thank you thank you for being here aron take care and james thank you for this opportunity thank you thank you bye pleasure i'll be back in just a moment folks with a quick post credit scene letting you know about upcoming debates so stick around for that and thanks for your support folks if you haven't yet hit that like button we're already up to 323 appreciate that support and with that i'll be back in just a moment