Joab beekeeping group was established in 2002 as a family beekeeping group. Then later we started with the only five bee hives. Golden bee started giving us some bee hives, which amounted to 25 bee hives. From there we improved. We started getting some product from bee hives and we sell them. We bring them to the center here in Moroita, where we get some product, I mean with some money. One kilo is 8,000 which has improved our group up to now. We are getting some good product from bee hives. In 2020, where I started processing honey with my family, I started with my madam and we started packing it and from here we have coped honey. This is all the benefits of the FSUA project, which came here to train us on apiary management, good apiary management practices whereby they produce for us how to keep apiary clean, how to maintain bee hives make sure that they are in a good condition and help us in very many trainings on selling beekeeping. And also to add on that, it gives us a lot of knowledge on how to handle honey, on how to manage the bees in our community. What we did in that time, till now, we are now adding our hives, production, we are adding production out of the knowledge. We are going to use that honey to keep the bees in the water. We are going to use that honey to keep the bees in the water. I will tell you, we will keep the bees in the water in the water. If you don't have the honey, you can just leave it outside. My name is Salih, I'm from Kulisha Atohto, Kulima Shamba, Kupalisha Atohto Mangu. When I came to Kulima Shamba and Salih, I was told that I was going to die. I was told that I was going to die. I was told that I was going to die.  I thought of what my child is talking about. I hope it will continue to take place, so I'm trying to shake hands. Right now we are trying to also create market for other people who had hives but they didn't have, who had hives they didn't have where to sell their hives. So from that day till now we are prospering. We are moving on with beekeeping as well as honey selling. It is very cheap then also it is also it is three times in a year. But for bees for maize and these other ones it is only once in a year. And of course sometimes rain can affect but bees the rain cannot affect or any other things. We have been started making jellies, making liquid soap, something good from here. My name is also around like we have now our beekeeping group which is around here. We have 22 hives for the group only but mine personally is 50, mine 40, my wife 10. Now if you keep on stocking and making it you get a good price sometimes because the highest goes to 7000 or 7500. When it is scarce, when there is no honey that's when you see now the price goes high. And we don't have the constant market though we have a lot of honey. That is the main challenge that we face. You see here this honey can stay even for February up to June there you find that that's when they will buy your honey. It stays for long and the good thing they want on Friday that the honey cannot get can't expire or cannot get unless the one which is contaminated.


I respectfully acknowledge that I am standing on the unceded traditional territory of the Comox and Qualicum First Nations. I thank them for the use of their lands and I want to express my sorrow for the victims of the residential schools. On a recent episode of Arraycast, Connor Hookstra posed a problem to us and that problem is take this list of numbers and by taking one number at a time out, multiply the rest of the numbers and then get the product. So first step I'd take the three out and multiply these numbers together and that would be my first position. Second position I would take the four out and then I would multiply three times five six three two and I would get the second position and then so on as I go down the list. So this is what it should look like and to be quite honest I was terrified when Connor proposed this and the reason is because I generally don't think this way with Jay. I play around with things, I don't come up with fast solutions but I'm persistent and I will come up with solutions and on the way I quite learn quite a bit but in this case I had one of Jay's primitives, it's the adverb outfix and what outfix does, I can show you what outfix does, if I change this is a verb, it's the verb that will multiply across all all the positions in that it's given. So I'm going to change that to this which actually just takes whatever it's fed and then it'll spit it back out. So we're going to see how this works. So with that this is what's happening, you can see we've got three removed and then the rest of the numbers are there and then the four is removed and you end up with three, five, six, three, two, so three, skipping the four, five, six, three, two and so on. So you've got your six different lists, one for each number being removed and outfix just does that for you. Now outfix is pretty cool in another way too because you can actually change the number of entries that you're taking out, change the number of your entries that you're taking out. So this case I'm taking out two at a time. So I take out the three and the four and I'm left with five, six, three, two and then I take out the four and the five and I'm left with three, six, three, two and so you can do those kind of things with it, very powerful adverb. It's a dyadic adverb and that's why this argument on this side is here because it causes that adverb to act on this argument depending on the feed that is given from this argument. Now in the case of my solution, I just went here to one because I'm only taking one at a time and instead of just spitting them back out, what I did is I just did a product reduce across the remaining numbers and as a result when I do this, I get the answer spit out to me. So that number will be looking the same as this number up here. This is a little artifact here and it's actually a bug in the program and it happens just because of this product, this multiplier in here. For some reason, there's something in that was reacting with the program. I pointed out to Henry Rich who's the maintainer of the program and he's fixed it so it no longer will happen in the newer versions of J903. It was actually happening in J902 as well so it will go on happening in 902 but it's just a really little flaky little bug there and it's been fixed. So that's the easy answer. Now the other solution that the Connor and Stephen came up with, I was actually really impressed with and what this is, is it's a fork. So if I take that, in order to make it a fork, I have to put parentheses around it because if I didn't put parentheses around it and just gave it this argument, then it would go right to left and just work its way through and I don't want it to do that. I wanted to recognize that these things are grouped together and as soon as they're grouped together, this verb will take this argument and it just uses that argument. This verb will do a multiplication across this entire argument. Notice I'm not dropping anything at this point and then the result of the whole multiplication divided by each number in its turn gives me the answer. So there's the answer. So how does this work? Well, you might have already figured it out but if I take this, so now all I'm doing is I'm doing exactly what this here was doing on this side. It's taking this list and it's doing a multiplication across the whole thing but if I take that and then I divide it as this is being divided, I can divide it by each entry in here and because it's an array language, it will do all the entries together but just to show you, let's pick five. So what I'm doing here, if you take a look at it, you can actually see it before it happens, this five here, this five here is going to cancel out this five here and what I'm going to end up with is all these numbers here, all those numbers there are going to get multiplied together and this five cancels out on that five. So that's the way that these things work and since you can do it with all of them at once, you end up with what you were doing originally which is basically, so there's the 532 in the place of the five there. You can see that and that's when five was divided. If I put three in there, these two threes would cancel out and I end up with a 720 in both places. So it's pretty cool but I did take it one step further and the step further that I took it was because of J and what I did was J has things called hooks and what hooks do is hooks will take an argument such as this argument and what it does is if it's a monadic hook because there's only one argument to it, it's going to copy this to the other side and then it's going to execute it. So it takes this verb, does a multiplication across everything, takes this whole thing because it's a hook and copies it over here so you get this divided by but this tilde, this little passive adverb is what reverses the arguments. So that rather than having these numbers divide the product, I reverse them and I have the product divide these numbers. So it's a bit complicated but that's the way hooks work and it shortens down the solution and of course you've seen this solution work before and it does work. So that's my explanation and my talk about the different areas that J uses to solve Conor's problem and I will try and put a link somewhere for Conor's solution. He's done it in video as well or you could listen to ArrayCast and that's a podcast at Conor, Adam and Stephen and Richard and Rodrigo sometimes and other people do about the Array Languages. So I hope you enjoyed this. I hope you learned something from it and if you are interested, have a listen to ArrayCast. It's a podcast that we do. Thanks a lot.


Matt here from Coin Collecting Magazine. I just wanted to highlight another feature in our launch issue with the magazine. We've got a lovely piece on collecting coins on a budget so we're looking at Greek coins, Roman and medieval and really explaining that yeah if you want the really super examples you're gonna have to pay quite a bit of money but you can get some really nice examples and start a collection for you know kind of between 10 and 20 pounds if you know where to look so really interesting piece on as I say Greek, Roman and medieval coins. That's an issue one. I'll show it here of Coin Collecting Magazine. It's out now for 99p that's all for the print edition from our website and it's also free with stamp and coin mark the March 2018 issue of stamp and coin mark.


We just boarded our flight from the US to Israel. We're flying today on a Delta flight from Atlanta Airport in the US direct to Tel Aviv. As the geography suggests, this is a pretty long haul route. The flight over here took about 14 hours. It's actually a pretty new Delta route. Delta began operating this particular route, pairing in March of this year, complementing their other US cities that they're serving directly with non-stop connectivity from Israel. We're flying today on an Airbus 350-900, and I haven't seen the flying time yet, but I guess it's probably going to be a little bit shorter landing in Israel at what's going to be 9am tomorrow morning. The routing for the flight takes a northeast course out of Atlanta, up the east coast of the US, bypassing DC, New York and Boston as well as Cape Cod before coming over the remote Canadian territories, coming directly overhead St. John's in Newfoundland. Before beginning the transatlantic portion of the route and then eventually making close to landfall in my hometown of Cork in Ireland, although on the particular routing we ended up using, we actually made landfall over the coast of France, as you can see. Then coming over Europe, crossing the Alps, going across over Italy, Greece before turning into Israel, crossing south in Cyprus and then landing, and that is a 12-hour flight. For food, I ordered a kosher meal and received this Delta Regal salmon in sweet chili sauce as the main meal. It came with a salmon in the sauce, a side of barley and a kind of cake to finish with. The salmon itself wasn't too bad by airplane food standards or what also wasn't extraordinary. The barley was a little bit over salted and the cake was just about okay, so I'd probably give the kosher meal on this flight 5-6 out of 10. Our goal is to continuously improve your travel experience.


Hi everyone, Joe for Jasper's case breaks.com. Happy Saturday. We're coming at you with a pack break here 2019 a 2020 Panini mosaic basketball solo pack break number 66 This will give it we're giving away spots in a noir So 10 spots in noir basketball fresh case Being loaded up big things these folks now as always we're gonna do the break itself first Let's roll it. Let's randomize it three and a one four times for each list one two three N01 fourth and final time After four times we've got Tyler Down to Patrick and three and one four times for the teams one two After four times we've got the pelicans on top and the timber wolves on the bottom That's just a cello pack break Tyler stump But as I always say in these things you never know All right, so there's the first half of the list right here Russell you have the gris As well. All right, let's alphabetize by team and let's print and rip Who do I prefer Sammy or David Lee Roth? For the Van Halen's I Don't know Both are I can enjoy both. There's the list right there pop this mosaic pack open I Think we need to do one more of these and then sell out some spots straight up and then I think we'll be able to roll on that Noir break. All right, Tyler. Yeah, good to see it Sports what's going on? It's a cello pack. We can't really expect anything too crazy there Maybe in the pink camos which are exclusive to this set Jaren Jackson jr. Nicola Joakic and Jordan pool MBA debut pink camel. So a rookie Parallel here going to Oliver and the Warriors. That's that now. Here's the important part Who's gonna win those spots so from Tyler down to zeal? Let's get all the names back in there Let's roll it. Let's randomize it six times top ten after six gonna be in noir basketball The one that's currently on the side right now. If you're watching live, I think break number That one right there break number 11 from a fresh case So six top ten after six one two three four five and six After six times big. Thanks all of these folks right here. I appreciate you trying congrats Jason Patrick Mike Ryan Tyler Ryan zeal Russ Patrick and Patrick There you go. Congrats to the top ten here. You are in a noir Basketball should be a great break and probably do that fairly soon. So check it out on jaskies case breaks calm And I'll see you next time. Bye


Welcome to Film My Run, we are in the grounds of the absolutely beautiful Ashton Court Estate here to run Park Run. Ashton Court Estate is in Bristol, if you didn't know, it's a stunning location. But this park run is not flat, uphill all the way for the first half of the run. So there's going to be no PBs broken here for your 5K, but it does look like a gorgeous route, so let's get on and do it. Over a kilometre right now, and yeah, that's a bit of a hill at the beginning there. All good fun though, hopefully we can speed up on the way down. 2 kilometers in 10 minutes, we're on the flat at the top now. Thanks Marshall, 3 kilometers, 14 minutes 16, come on buddy, but it should be downing him all the way now. 4th kilometer, 18 minutes, so hopefully we'll be getting in 22 minutes, 46th. Okay, finished at a time of 21.33, so given that hill at the beginning, that's not too bad I suppose. Yeah, so basically it's all the way up for a mile, just over a mile climbing. Then you've got a flat section at the top on gravel path, which to be honest is still a little bit of an incline. It's not much, but it is definitely an incline, because when you turn around you feel it coming back, so you can kind of feel the downhill as you're coming back on what is supposedly the flat bit, and then you hit the downhill and I was doing, yeah, my last 2 kilometers are like 3.30 each, so that's how much of a steep downhill and uphill it is. But yeah, great park run, come and have a go, it's in a beautiful location, and then you can go and have coffee in the cafe Ashton Court afterwards, and go and have a look around Ashton Court if you want. What's your name? Jason, yeah, I'm from Bristol. Jason, is this your regular park run? It has become it, yeah, I used to be at Yovo Montecute, but that's finished now. I took Yovo Montecute once, and that was hard enough. Oh, it's good fun though, it was good fun, yeah, but now I've decided to go for this one that's got the hill in it. So how do you find the hill? I mean, do you get used to it after doing it so many times? No, it seems to get harder, I think it's getting bigger as well, I don't know why. If you want to watch me running my regular park run out wording, that is linked just there. If you're not subscribed, you know what to do, please click the subscribe button and the bell icon, and that is it from Ashton Court Park Run in Bristol, take care. We will see you on the start line next time, bye-bye.


We have a fairly light agenda here today, but I think we have one proposal and I, Todd, you said we weren't going to vote. I think this is just the initial presentation right of the project reporting proposal. Yeah, I believe so. Tracy, were you were you looking to bring this to vote today or is this more just discussion at this point? I think just discussion at this point. Okay. You know, I think just to intro it. Yeah. And also Tamasha and she kind of joined. So we are actually at quorum at this point. Correct. Well, okay. Well, if everybody is comfortable, we can also vote on it then. Great. So on the agenda today, we have Hackfest planning and just a reminder of what's going to happen next week. And some of us are about to jump on planes and trains and automobiles to get out there. I want to just talk briefly about our drive within the hyperledger fabric team to 1.0. Tracy is going to present proposal for doing project reporting and the template that she's cooked up. And then Dave is going to regale us with where we stand with the plans to have hyperledger sponsored security audit pen testing process that all the projects can use as they get ready to do a major release. Are there any other topics for the agenda? Okay. If not, Todd, you want to. Sure thing. So the Hackfest is going well. We'll be Monday and Tuesday next week in Beijing. We actually have almost 150 registered for that now. So most popular Hackfest to date. Really excited to see the momentum there. If you are planning to attend, please register as soon as possible. That was in the agenda that went out. There is also a wiki. It looks like Bau Hodge has posted that into the chat window. We will run this similarly in the unconference format. Brian will get things kicked off on Monday with some discussion. And then we will have some whiteboards and post-its and whatnot to call for topics that people want to either present on or just discussion general. And we'll get that all laid out over the course of the two days. Any questions there before we talk about future Hackfest? We're looking forward to seeing everyone there. On the future Hackfest, a lot of people have already responded regarding the upcoming U.S. Hackfest, looking at August or September. Right now it's looking more likely for September, but please go fill out the doodle poll. I just dropped into the chat window. We'd like to finalize on this pretty quickly here so that folks can book travel around that. And then looking beyond that, I think last week we were potentially floating the idea of Europe in October-ish timeframe. Interested if there are any thoughts around that, otherwise we can put out a separate doodle poll to try to hone in on something there. If the U.S. one shifts into September, will the European one move out from October? Or will it stay to give them more of a two-month cadence? I think we're flexible. We can look at October and November and kind of see what works for folks. But really what's going to work best for this community is what we'll do. Okay, because I'm not opposed to Octoberfest in Germany. I mean, October in Germany. It's actually in September though. I don't know why they call it Octoberfest because it happens in September. Okay, anything else Todd? Do we know if there are any prospective sponsors? So we have chatted with a few companies that can potentially host. There are actually a couple in Chicago that we're interested in hosting. We could also look at New York, Boston, that as well. So any of the folks on the call, if you have office space that could accommodate a hackfest, please get in touch with me as soon as possible. How many are we expecting? I would say for the U.S. one, probably 80, 80, 80, 90, something like that. Okay, so we can do. It's all for me. All right. Excellent. Thanks, Todd. Okay. Next up is hyperlidra fabric 1.0 and the drive to getting it done. Just as a brief update, basically, we cut our beta release. Last week we had intended to do weekly cadence releases. And we had a discussion yesterday afternoon. And we sort of felt that we weren't quite there with the timing for another release. There wasn't quite enough in it. We were hoping to get some of the security bugs fixed in time and get some of the documentation improved. And get the new process for publishing the binaries and sample apps sorted out. But that didn't happen. So I think we're pushing that off to next week. And then we'll have another decision point on Wednesday as to whether or not we think we're ready for a release candidate or not. Or whether we do a beta two. And a lot of that will obviously be predicated on where are we with the open defect count. What's the rate of things coming in, defects coming in, and so forth. It's getting a lot of uptake. The beta that's out there, it's been out for, well, basically a week today. With the last day of the week and we have about 400 downloads. So that's actually very positive. And so anyway, so that's sort of where we're at. There's a few things from a process perspective. We've established a set of exit criteria that the fabric team is going to be looking at for its 1.0. Others can feel free to beg, borrow and steal that if they like. It's out on the wiki under the fabric project. And we're also, you know, it's starting to engage with some of the various license and crypto export scans and so forth, working with Tracy and Dave on those aspects of things. And obviously those things have to happen. And then, you know, obviously we for some of the non Apache to license dependencies, because we're using go and because you vendor the go code the way that you do with go, we have to ask for, we have to ask the board for an exemption. And so anyway, so I just wanted to sort of let people know that this is happening. And that, you know, as we push towards the next few weeks that the fabric team will certainly be pretty busy and, you know, welcome any, anybody wanting to come in and kick the tires and then hopefully once we cast that, you know, we can focus a little bit more on, you know, some of the things that I know everybody wants to do, you know, we'd like to spend quality time, you know, looking at poet, and we'd like to spend some quality time certainly with borrow on integration of the EEM as chain code and various other things. And so hopefully once we're past this weekend, we can start doing some of that in earnest. So I just want to get people an update that's sort of where we're at. Hopefully, we get something done in the next month or so. Chris, are you seeing an influx of additional issues showing up now that, that it's in the beta and you've had, you know, this 400 downloads. Yeah, now that we're in beta, we're getting a lot more external bug reports coming in. I mean, that's not a, that's actually a good thing because it's not great from a quality perspective, obviously. But we are seeing an influx of defects coming in from outside as well as the, you know, the increased testing that we're putting on it, adding daily and weekly and additional unit and integration tests as we're doing. And so, yeah, I mean, it's not just people downloading it and then throwing it away. They seem to be using it and coming back. And I also noticed that the questions in the chat seem to have increased as well and they're fairly substantive. So I think it's all a good sign. Cool. Very cool. Did you say a little more on the non Apache to dependency issue. Yeah, so we're using go as you know for fabric and fabric CA in particular. And the way that you have to deal with dependent, well, with go, the dependencies need to be in the go path. When you build your binaries. There's, I guess there's two ways we could do it. We could ask everybody that ever wanted to build to go and install, you know, 50 or 100 or whatever it is number dependencies in their environment, so that they can build it. Or you can vendor the dependencies and this means just like with note or, you know, some, you know, with maven we, there's a dependency tree that can be included in your repository. But go doesn't provide a means of dynamically creating this unfortunately. So they're they're actually working on on addressing this but that fix this new dependency management tool go depth isn't going to be in a, in a place where it can be used for for projects that are serious about things until probably q4 of this year they say And so we in our source tree we actually include the vendor tree of all the go dependencies that we have for the two projects. Some of those dependencies are MIT or BSD or MPL licensed. And so for those we have to go up and ask mother may I to proceed it's not any of the code that we include other than the vendor dependencies and the vendor dependencies again they're not modified by us in any way we just, you know, we just download them and stick them in there. And so I've been working with Tracy and with Steve Winslow on on on reconciling some of those things and then we'll pull together a proposal for the board. I was hoping that we could get one done but there was another scan done and it's it's like swatting flies. So there's a few more things I have to address that didn't get licenses put on them unfortunately so anyway. So that's sort of the situation Dan it's it's not like we're, you know, including other licensed stuff or putting other things in that have a different license it's it's really just those vendor dependencies. Once we get past this and start using go depth. We should be able to manage it just like, you know, npm or are made and then have it automatically recreate on build the set of dependencies that you need to use. That helps to get more context right then they won't be in the source tree. I'm done and except then would be Tracy. Thanks Chris. So, just past week I put on the TSC mailing list a proposal for project reporting, specifically to keep the TSC informed of what is happening with the different projects that fall under the hyperledger umbrella. And to make sure that there's some oversight that exists with the community and the code that's happening. You know, for example, our regular releases happening are getting diversity of developers contributors joining and you know those sorts of things so that the proposal is really the project maintainers report on their projects health and status monthly to the TSC. And so with that I've created a template that can be used for that reporting where each each month the project is designating a maintainer to create that report. And the maintainer or the designated maintainer would actually fill out that report and include it to be reviewed by the TSC on a monthly basis. And so the contents of that template are really just what is the project that we're reporting on. What is the health of that project, you know summarizing really, you know, is it is a community healthy. Our questions being answered our contributors acting appropriately. And then do we have new contributors showing up any issues that might exist that you need to be brought to the attention of the TSC, so that they can either specifically address them or just be aware of them. And then, you know what releases have happened in the last month, because regular software releases are assigned as a healthy project. And so the next one would be the overall activity that's happening in the past month. So is any new development happening, or are we just doing bug fixes. What's the the technical changes that the project is actually working on. And then, you know, what are the current plans so are the current plans relate to add new features. When are those features going to be planned, really thinking more about what the roadmap for that project is and and how that's how that's working. And then, if the activity is minimal we need to discuss, are there plans to address that or are we looking to actually take that to more of a deprecated or end of life state. And then the next question really is around the the maintainers and the contributor diversity. So when were maintainers last added. Are we getting new contributors to the project. And then lastly, call for any additional information that the project reporter might feel is important for the TSC to be aware of. And so really just a short questionnaire that would be public on the wiki and would be reviewed by the TSC. And I suggested that maybe the first meeting of the month is is the right time to have that review of the projects. So happy to have discussion on that and see what the TSC thinks. Any questions, comments for Tracy. So I had, I had one. And that, that's the frequency of these reports. And I tended, I mean, and it was, it was funny, you know, so we also put out a, you know, brief blurb on, you know, how things are going for each of the projects currently and how Todd or Min, you know, bundles them up and puts them into the board updates so that we can present sort of how things are going to the board. And, and then there's some derivative of that that gets, you know, munched up and Jessica puts out a blog post to sort of give the broader community an update on how things are going. And I, I know, you know, Dan, you know, it was like, I thought I just did one of these, you know, it just it's it is pretty frequent and and sometimes there's not a whole lot to talk about or it's really just more of the same we're testing and fixing bugs or whatever.  And the other aspect of it is we could spend a little bit of more quality time in the TSC actually reviewing them and we could even, you know, it, you know, we could even have it so that it's not that everybody does it every quarter but that, you know, we stagger them so that there's not a gazillion of them that we have to go through. So I think they do that in other organization. So I just, you know, get your thoughts on whether you think that, you know, having less frequently than monthly could still achieve the same objective of being able to sort of track how things are going. Yeah, I kind of second that before Tracy has a chance to think about that for a minute. But I know I do end up doing a decent amount of status reporting for a variety of things, including this project that I'm not sure how much they get read so I would prefer to be putting time into, you know, creating capabilities more so than recording so I'd want to be able to balance some of that so this kind of expands this template kind of expands beyond what we had been doing for reporting so it increases that amount of time so if we could cut back on the frequency or cut back on the scope of the code be good. And, you know, the other thing and I reflect, I mean, because I have, you know, the sort of the same problem I have a lot of things I have to tell a lot of people about. And it's unclear exactly how much value there isn't all of that but one of the things that I think is worthwhile is trying to figure out how can we automate some of the aspects and some of the you know you can't automate. Well, I mean, maybe you could with some of the machine learning kind of stuff that we have now but you can't necessarily automate you know how things are going on the mailing lists and whether people are arguing with one another I guess we probably could do something there but certainly, you know, just the project diversity right how many engineers from how many different companies or how many different constituencies are involved in the project. You know, from a month to month perspective, who's who's landing commits who's doing reviews. All of that stuff leaves there's a paper trail that we can actually harvest and, and, you know, we can get detergent or somebody to come up with numbers and tell us how things are going from from that perspective and certainly you can, you know, we can, we can. We can measure releases pretty easily. So I'm just curious if, you know, if there's any way that we could simplify some of this that we're collecting. By just being able to reference that there's a report or, you know, a dashboard or something that people can look at to see how diverse projects are and so forth. Yeah.  We do have to make another dashboard in terms of how the different projects and the dependencies just everything you've said and just wondering if we can extend that dashboard to provide additional metrics that everybody would be interested in. So we don't have to wait every month because then if it's all integrated into the dashboard, people can have a sort of use whenever they want. However, we could look and see how different projects are progressing or not progressing and then forward for early review, get based on what we've seen from the dashboard. So that's always a good approach in automation as much as we can. Sorry about the noise in background, but no, I certainly would support you on the side of that using what you already have in place. Sorry, Tracy. Oh, no problem. No problem. I appreciate the additional thoughts. So definitely we are working on metrics. So let's, let's maybe take that off the table because that is going to be another discussion at some point. We are definitely working with Patergia. I am also doing some scripting to pull information from each of the projects. So that will definitely be happening as well. So, so maybe we can focus on kind of the timing and the those kind of questions and concerns that people have, right? So, you know, I think the question becomes, you know, if we There's concern that people wouldn't be looking at these reports, right? And so that's why I wanted to make the last step of this really the running it through the TSC and making sure that the TSC is really aware of what's going on. Right. So it's that there has to be people who are looking at these things and not just we're reporting for the sake of reporting because I think you're exactly right. Reporting for that just for the sake of making putting something down on paper really isn't useful, but when you're doing it to make sure that a project is healthy and should continue as a project under the hyperledger umbrella. That's where I think the value comes in. So, you know, I think as far as timing goes, the reason that I chose monthly was Chris kind of for the reasons that you stated it, right? Which are that we are really doing these monthly reports for the blogs and for sending out information to the governing board and those sorts of things. And so I was trying to tack on to that schedule such that you wouldn't have to do multiple reports. It could be a single report that is used for multiple purposes. Right. And those purposes being, you know, the TSC being able to understand the project health, the governing board being able to understand what's happened in the last month and see the progress that the different projects are making. And then also to be able to report out to the larger community just what's ongoing. So that's why I chose monthly. You know, I don't really myself have a particular dog in this fight, I guess you can say, right? I think that, you know, they're like you said, when we bring these metrics in, we'll be able to see a lot of the health of the projects and see what's going on. So, you know, I will leave that up to the TSC as a decision point as far as the timing that they think is appropriate. If it's a staggered schedule, you know, that's another option, right? So, but really keep in mind that I was trying to use this for more than just the one purpose and bring in those other things because I think you'll still be asked for those reports for the governing board. You'll still be asked for reports for the blogging, those sorts of things. So, you know, keep that in mind as you're thinking about this. Hey, this is Brian. I didn't don't want to step on anyone else from the TSC wants to also comment, but I wanted to get something out that I feel is important for us to think about, which I wrote into the comments but for those who are just calling in and not connected through go to meeting. I said I felt like the TSC shouldn't really be focused on what can be automated or as easy as to collect. It really needs to think about its oversight role over the projects. You know, I've been fighting really hard to preserve the TSC as the the center of technical governance for the project and to try to keep both the Linux foundation and the governing board from feeling like it has to step in and do that. Just because you know these projects should be predominantly about, you know, pushing forward technology and community at the same time the developers really should be the center of gravity for deciding if people are doing what they should be doing. So, so I think we should be thinking about what is the TSC need to know about a project. How often does it need to know about that if the project has gone gone quiet, which is the more likely scenario than a project getting getting into a tense, you know, fight or something like that. I think we'll know about that as soon as it happens. But the bigger risk is a project kind of goes more bund. And if we have too many of those kind of sitting out there. And does that reflect poorly upon the project reflect poorly upon the TSC, you know, mature and stable and cutting a release once in a while to sweep up bugs is fine. But if it were unresponsive to security notices, or not bringing in, not not responding to pull requests or bringing in new developers when, when they show up at the door, then that's the problem. And that's what the TSC should be in and I believe is empowered to monitor for and and step in if if there's problems there. And so that's really what should drive the question of what do we want reported and how often. Yeah, this is about it. I do. The speaker goes back to the government and TSC. Intertwined. So yes, the level of reporting to our executives. So yeah, they need to determine the frequency of these reports. And as Tracy said, the monthly start with all organizations working on that basis. Yeah, but it has to provide critical information information that's chosen to go to TSC so they can basically measure the governance is working in the heart. And secondly, if it's an interest that's of value to be exact, if they were to pass on that report or if it was demanded of them. So yeah, I totally agree with what Tracy said. It's always continuous improvement start of point. We see how effective it is and based on lessons learned to improve that's the only way forward. So yeah, I mean certain important aspect is important. The dashboard is also how we can automate a much of it to provide metrics as Tracy said, is it's forthcoming at some point. So I think the two combined should get us to that level. Absolutely two things about performance and, I'd say, and usefulness as we go on. Any other thoughts on this? Chris, this is just, would it make sense to kind of split this into two pieces? A lot of the stuff I heard Tracy describing in there that's in the list is stuff that we could automate collection of, you know, write the scripts that are necessary. But if we set up a set of criteria that, you know, Perl enters comment about the dashboard, if you end up with something that shows red in your dashboard, then that triggers a deeper review or something for reporting. Would that make sense?  When it feels like I'm clicking the exact same box every time. Right. I tend to agree very strongly with that. And that's why, you know, I focus on putting together some sort of a dashboard that, you know, is reflective of the various measures that I think are meaningful for someone to understand how things are going. And, you know, spending less time on pulling together and putting together a status report and being able to focus more on getting stuff done. And so I do tend to agree. And again, yeah, if, you know, somebody goes into the red, then, you know, then obviously, then we have to take a closer look and we have to understand why is it. And so forth, whereas if everything is green, well, you know, then there's maybe only need for a periodic update where, you know, we can have a congressional grilling. I'd love with your measures of accurate. You know, that sort of the point is that what we should maybe look at is in the context of Tracy's proposal. And I saw in chat a couple of questions about, you know, is the, you know, the number of maintainers, you know, added or whatever a good measure of health, or is it just a number, right. And diversity obviously is an important thing that we should be measuring both of contributors and maintainers and so forth. But, you know, again, all those things can probably be fairly easily measured automatically and captured in some sort of a dashboard. So if you want to make it, you know, private to the TSC, I suppose we could do that, but I think, you know, it tends to be that most of these things you actually want full transparency and not secrecy and so therefore, you know, I think we should be asking ourselves the tough questions of, so what do we think makes a healthy project and how do we measure it objectively as opposed to subjectively. Let's get started. So here's what I would propose then I would propose we take this to the mailing list and and we go through and we actually try and and capture you know what are the measures that we would be looking to ascertain the health and and the strength if you will the diversity of the project. Okay, Chris, I can, I can kick that off on the mailing list and look for responses. Since I've already have a few thoughts on that one. Good. Thank you. Okay. Anybody else. If not, then next up is Dave. Dr. No. Not Dr. No, not Dr. No. Professor No. All right, so I'm going to make this quick. Just a quick status report I would have sent out more detailed information although we're we're in the sort of the negotiation phases of statement of works and didn't want to make that public just yet. But we've received so to backup. As part of the 1.0 release. We engaged with several security auditing firms that are going to do a code review and pen testing for us just to get to establish a floor just kind of a just have somebody outside of the maintainers. Take a look at the code and do audits for security best practices and crypto material handling and network pen testing and things like that. We've talked to netitude, secure works and rapid seven. I have a really great statement of work proposal from netitude. And the numbers are reasonable, it seems secure works is due back they've said last night, but I haven't heard from them yet today or tomorrow. Hopefully I just emailed them this morning just to prod them a little bit asking for an update. Rapid seven is evaluating our code base as well or just, you know, trying to put together a statement of work for us. So all that's inbound soon. And anyway, once we have the numbers we're going to I was hoping to get something so that we could present it we could come up with a recommendation and get it to the governing board on Monday but I don't know that it's going to happen unless we choose to decide to go with netitude without looking at other bits but I think that's irresponsible for the project so I'm going to see if I can get something with secure works today and then I'll send it around to the people, you know, here at hyper ledger, make the decision. It's going they so far we've seen that there's going to be like a two to three week staffing lead time to get going and then the estimates for completion or anywhere between four and six weeks. So there is a significant time investment for this that's going to delay releases. We had a meeting about fabric 1.0 release yesterday. I'm going to talk about the security scans because IBM has done one against fabric as well and we're I'm still waiting to see the results on that. If that was done, you know, thorough enough and the maintainers like it and it looks like we were doing all the right things I think we could use that in lieu of the one that I've initiated and not hold up the fabric 1.0 release, but that remains to be seen we're going to have to look at those and I'll report back when we have seen them. But once it gets going, then I plan to convene the first meeting of the security bug triage group to start feeling the issues as they come in from the audits and working through our security bug handling process so we can get all of the kinks out of that. And to just get the communication channel set up and make sure that security bug flagging your works and all that stuff so that's that's the current status right now I'm pushing pretty hard to get statement of work out of these companies so that we can get moving on it. I don't anticipate. So Brian's asked me do you think that this should be something we should do annually. In my professional opinion. I would say no, because I would just like to establish a baseline and then if we do careful change management and we do the right things we have a good process in place. We should be able to maintain the integrity of the code base that we gain from this kind of a scan. But if we do significant rewrites, where we throw out large chunks of code and rewrite things from scratch maybe we should consider in the future I wouldn't completely write it off but. But yeah. That's pretty much all I've got. You need to say we do it for every major release. Yeah, I don't think there's a requirement for it but for an outside firm to do it. But yes, I think the CII badge requirements say that we need to do like an audit of the code for every major release and that could be an internal one to security team or things like that so. Yeah, that's current status any questions. Dave, are there any tools out there on the market, proprietary or sort of an almost that shareware. You know what I mean, that could automatically go through the core code and provide us you might say some kind of benchmark testing. I'm not sure I understood your question. Are you asking if we've used any tools to do. Yes, exactly. So that can go through the code and give you a report in terms of finding based on security or even security aspects like are there any backdoors are there any areas that we should look at closer. Yeah. So, yes, we have applied some tools there. We've been focusing mostly on the continuous integration modifications so doing fuzzing or doing static code analysis at this point, we don't have any dynamic code analysis in place. And that's what the security audit is going to do for us. But, yeah, I don't know that it'll pinpoint areas of code that we need to look closer at but just from a security best practices, you always want to look at your crypto code you always want to look at the code that handles data coming from untrusted sources.  So, so are you saying that just mentioned all the static code with you. No, I don't think that they, I don't think any static tool knows how to look at how you're using say like the salt crypto library, right, there's some best practices out there but I mean manually a static because you talked about static. I'll be manually looking at these categories. Um, so I've got a different version of the question, Dave. Yeah. So actually first. We were getting some questions from one of the vendors about lines of code so just out of curiosity is that part of the, the billing mechanism for them or the cost. Um, I don't believe, well, yeah, I mean, yes, but not directly. I don't think they bill per line of code. I think they are just trying to assess the volume of code so that they can give an estimate on cost and time. Um, because ultimately these parts kind of heavily into you know what was test code versus what was the mainline code and stuff. So, yeah, I don't know how precise to get with them. Um, just give them some rough numbers. I wouldn't give them because I think what they're trying to do is just to get an idea of how big it is. Plus they can drive some metrics like how much coverage of the code have we done based on our fuzzing. You know, you can see how many lines of code they've activated so they can say, oh no, we've covered 90% of the code with our fuzzing. But I don't, I don't think they need exact numbers. I think they just wanted to know what areas we wanted them to focus on and like how many lines of code that is. Okay, cool. And then, um, maybe you can help me understand a little bit difference between their objectives across. I guess there's a couple different ways to define dynamic testing versus pen testing or dynamic analysis versus pen testing is what I think of pen testing. I'm often thinking of like a live production site. And so all of our, our platform software could be deployed in a variety of conditions with, you know, all sorts of different firewall settings. And that kind of deployment scenario is going to be, you know, very specific to a certain customer is certain deployment model. Yeah, so when it comes to the pen testing stuff. I'm going to have to deliver to them or the teams are going to have to deliver to them sort of the recommended install and basically the default install. And that's what they will pen test from in terms of like network attacking, like, can we, can we mess with the with the software over the network, or, you know, locally with files and things like that. So that, I hope that answers that part of the question when it comes to dynamic analysis that is part pen testing right because it's mostly fuzzing I guess is what I'm getting out here so they will send random data or carefully guided random data. And see how deeply they can penetrate into the big executable. And if they can get it to get into bad states or do bad things that actually can be translated into a CI system. So working with Roha they because they use C plus plus, they have the ability to use American fuzzy lock, which is a machine learning guided fuzzing tool, which maximizes code coverage and does a guided random fuzzing. But it's guided by an AI driven by code coverage so they actually have quite an advantage by using something like C or C plus plus. Because their fuzzing is going to be a lot more thorough and a lot more. I don't get thorough, and guess is the right word. And I'm hoping to get that into the CI system so these security scans are going to do a fuzzing pass and I'm hoping to get from them. I'm just going to start that discussion once we picked one of them about getting their fuzzing harnesses set up as part of our CI, because a lot of these fuzzing things they'll they'll write some code to do the fuzzing. And I don't know if we'll get that from them but since it's an open source project I might be able to, you know, plea for help right can you open source the fuzzing code and commit it to the code base for us so that we can use it in our fuzzing in the future. Did I answer your question. Yeah, yeah that helps. And so when it comes to the the pen testing half of it. You don't just have to answer here we want to send out some guidance on. Or maybe we should have some discussion what what the expectations are for hosting environments for that pen testing or the project supposed to set aside some some sprint time to set up an example deployments. That's available for the pen testers or what your thoughts are there. Okay, so it just depends on the the company that we're working with I think netitude said that they could set some stuff up but they were wondering if we had assets already set up for them. So, the answer is either right whichever way works best. We're going to need to know how to set one up right and that would mean that we need to document sort of the default install. If they if we have them do it. Does that answer your question. So, I mean I would say yeah you probably put a little bit of time aside to at least support them if they're going to set something up. If you need resources to set something up then let me know we'll see if I can line something up for you. Okay, thanks. Yeah. One thing I just wanted to add. So, you know, we've established that a code scan like this, and it's been testing is a cherry on top is a requirement for projects that go to a one dot oh, right. And this is something that I believe it's important for us to fund from the Linux foundation side for two reasons one is make sure that we can provide kind of that independent audit. You know, separate from from, you know what what what kind of we expect many of you will be doing internally as well or perhaps even hiring your own teams to go off and do. And secondly, to make sure that, you know, all projects at hyper ledger get at least a baseline scan like this, you know, so it's not a question of some projects being better funded than others is something that we put a project out there hyper ledger anything one dot oh, people should expect it's had a code scan at the least right. We expect others to do their own scans ahead of time, and it may be that for a one one dot oh release or something dot oh release that the maintainers on that project. Actually, you know, feel pretty comfortable that the scans, you know, separate from these meet that requirement. So, you know, this will take time to do right for for the three projects that are heading to a one dot oh right now. And I think if those communities are comfortable with the scanning there, they're doing the maintainers on those projects and they vote. And, and they, you know, we've, we've responded we've we've closed the holes that those cans have found. We want to push a release. We wouldn't hold up a one dot oh release for what is likely here to still be a multi month process. Right. But we should still do it. We should still, you know, see if they turn up anything new that the previous can didn't and address them. But, but I just want to be clear. We don't want to introduce this getting started on this now, which we are as they hold up to, you know, one or more of our projects wanting to get to a one dot oh. Does that make sense. Yep. Or did I muddy the water too. No, I think I think you, I think you're spot on. Okay. No, that's good. I think you're talking about strategy, which sort of lines to the process we have in place. So no, that helps with the direction. Certainly the code scan is an important aspect based on our level of majority. As well as ensuring whatever we put out there. Otherwise, it's because of our overriding principle for any project is that it's going to be very scalable. So these two aspects must be. So thanks. Any others on the, on the TSE have thoughts about this. Okay, well, David's going to push continue to push forward on getting something like this signed and, and, and we'll, we'll, we'll get the budget for it. I just want to make it clear to folks that, you know, we, we know many of the teams are veriling to a one dot oh release want to support them in that. Yep. Thanks guys. Anything else. If not, I will see some of you in China. Enjoy. Oh, one thing I should add. I think the door to China, you should all give back a photo album of sorts and we can put together a collage. I think that's very good for the entire. Thanks guys. Have a good day. Thanks guys. Bye.


My name is Granjur Jnitsa, I'm a postdoctoral researcher at Grass University of Technology in Austria and they all present the visualization driven training for vibrotactile skin reading, which is our paper. Just a bit of context, skin reading is conveying complex information through vibrotactile displays and typically this is done by first encoding symbols which could be letters or phonemes and then expanding towards sentences. And there's a lot of research done in this field, especially in finding locations, simulation methods and also encodings. However, one of the problems that still persists is that training users is tedious and time consuming for users and we end with our research to make this as user friendly as possible. Hence, we propose our visualization driven training method where participants are trained using a visualization of activators that encode a certain symbol. To evaluate our proposed method, we performed a user study with 18 participants where we compared our visual based training method with a baseline. So as shown here in the slides, both methods used the audio stimulation which spelled the encoded symbol, tactile stimulation which stimulated the vibrotactile pattern that encodes the symbol and a visual stimulation where both methods differ. So in our visual based training, the activators that encode the symbol are visualized whereas in the baseline, the encoded character is printed on the screen. This baseline is a very common way of training participants and it's used in many studies before. We trained participants in four rounds of training. Overall participants were able to recognize symbols that were trained using visual based training significantly better than symbols that were trained using classical training. However, the larger difference seemed to appear in earlier rounds whereas in the last round of training there were no significant differences as the differences diminished with more rounds of training. Participants were able also to reconstruct the pattern of that encode the symbol significantly better in all the rounds combined as well as in the last round. Moreover, we performed tenacity elix at the end of the training and we found out that there were significant less workload in training when using our visual based training compared to the baseline. Participants also preferred our visual based training significantly more than the baseline. To summarize, this paper proposes and evaluates a visual oriented training approach for skin reading. Overall, participants will learn better with this method however the differences seem to be more prominent in the earlier round and they seem to vanish in later round. Nevertheless, this provides a steeper learning curve for participants. Also, participants experience less workload when training with this method and prefer much more than the baseline. Thank you for your attention and I invite you to read our paper for more details.


telecom exchange CEO roundtables both for our guests here in the audience at telecom exchange NYC and for our viewers joining us on Periscope as well as on JSA TV. We'd also like to thank our Wi-Fi sponsor Kelly Dry. Our third panel today is on the growth and trends of unified communications and its necessary network infrastructure needs. We're honored to have Mr. Evan Christel, social media business strategist with over 71,000 followers on Twitter probably more by the sense of spend what a good half hour. He is our number one social media influencer on Twitter for Ucom hashtag as well as others. With 20 plus years of sales alliances and biz dev experience in the comms infrastructure and applications arena Evan brings a unique perspective on opportunities in the unified communications and collaboration segment including deep knowledge of social, mobile, and the voice, video, web, collaboration, market, and technology. I should also say he's probably the number one reason why tech-cited is trending right now on Twitter so we're really proud and excited to have Evan. Thank you. Welcome Evan. After the tweet though. Thanks very much. It's great to be here and what an amazing event. I'm worried we may have scared off some of the attendees here calling it unified communications. I hope next year we could maybe rename the panel like business communications or collaboration. Actually a bug, you know, kind of bugbear of mine is the name unified communications. I think it's kind of long in the tooth. Probably a misnomer in terms of what the industry is all about and hopefully we can maybe correct some of the images that are portrayed, some of the old-fashioned images that are out there about what unified communication is and the value it provides through this panel. So hopefully that's one of the goals. Maybe we could start with introductions. Michael, you want to start and we can work our way down and introduce yourself and more importantly, you know, the role you play in the ecosystem because I think you see is about the ecosystem. It's not about a product or service or a solution but, you know, your unique position within that ecosystem and your differentiation, the value, bring the, let's say, the community. Hi. Nice to meet everyone and if I'm saying something someone else had said on the panel before, raise your hand and I'll get the hint to shut up. So I'm the CEO of Metro Optic. We are a Canadian provider of fiber solutions and data center solutions and what do we bring to unified communications? First of all, I had to Google that term to figure out what it really meant. So, but there was no other term I could think of either that would do a good job of replacing that. So GSA certainly, you know, took the best term to explain something that's really important, which is what does integration mean of, you know, voice, video and data. What we provided Metro Optic is three elements of that. We provide what I call supporting infrastructure, which is capacity, both from a fiber perspective where we have dark and lit fiber solutions and we own and operate that network. And then we have data centers in Montreal, eight of those. And one data center that we're just opening in Toronto. And the third part, which is really the most important part is the interconnect piece. So we own one of the carrier densest sites in Canada. And we just see that unified communications needs access to multiple providers. It's not just about redundancy, but it's also about the ability to reach eyeballs. And it's the ability to actually support applications. And I think that's the fundamental difference. What drives, what makes a good application? And what do you need as supporting infrastructure to deliver that? And that's really what we're trying to, is our value position to the customers and the ability for us to interconnect to the providers, but at the same time reach the eyeballs through our Metro fiber network to all the data centers in the area really makes a big difference. So that's exactly what you, how you introduced us. And I think it's, it's, it's dead on. Great. Thank you. James? Sure. James Martino, how are you? CEO of a Votis, we're about a 35 year old firm. We have been providing our customers with visibility and the ability to manage usage data and investment data around their telecom networks for a long time now. Within the unified communications space, we're very active. We are on an evangelical mission actually within the space. We believe that unified communications are a key and important part of the ecosystem as we migrate from the old TDM world to a VoIP world to a UC world in a collaborative world. And however, we've noticed that many of the almost all of the platforms within the UC space have within them certain features that when not adequately monitored or checked for abuse, that those features can be used to create significant risks to the enterprise. So we developed a UC analytics package that tracks all of the different sessions that take place within a UC platform. And we've integrated it with Avaya and Microsoft Link and GenBand and BroadSoft and all the major providers out there. And we're able to give our enterprise customers a very unique visibility into everything that's taking place on that UC platform. And by doing that, they can avoid some of these risks that are hiding within the UC platform. So we're, we're huge proponents of UC, but as it grows and becomes four or $5 billion industry over time, we want to make sure that our customers are and our partners in the carriers are deploying it in a responsible way. So as not to introduce unknown risks into the organization, which we can talk about later. That's great. Yeah, telecom and UC in particular has been this kind of black box for ages where, you know, you can't see what's going in. You can't see what's going out. So it's pretty powerful. Yeah, so we help you look inside the black box, save money and organize all that data. Excellent. Amitava, we just were introduced and kind of going through like memory lane, a moment ago. I'm surprised we're not related. Unfortunately. But I want to introduce yourself. Right. Nice to meet you. My name is Amitava Mukherjee. I'm the CEO of Redshift Networks. We're a company based out of California. So we've been in the carrier industry for months since 2012. And what we do is we provide a security for voice networks or voice IP specifically. What we've seen is a lot of carriers as they're deploying unified communications. Some of the issues in there is security and to look at anomalous traffic patterns. So what anomalous traffic patterns are traffic that is not normal inside their network. So of course, that could be attacks that could be misconfiguration. So it could be troubleshooting issues. So we've actually taken a look at that and looking at it from a analytics point of view, looking deep inside the network. So we have probes in the network, taps in the network to look at all these traffic patterns of SIP traffic and looking for all these anomalies. And we're patent of that. We call it a UCTM, a unified communication threat management product. What we've seen is these attacks on voice networks are from all over the world. They are basically voice botnets that people have. Of course, you guys know fraud. Fraud is a 37 billion dollar problem. That's one instantiation of that problem set. What they're doing is they're trying to steal your phone and then they make fraud. So if you can actually protect them before they steal your phone, through looking at deep analytics on the network, at the network layer, that's what we provide. Of course, all the other things that are along with it, DDoS, and they're like 40,000 different attacks on voice space. We work with almost 23 carriers around the world. Some of them are Frontier, Central Link, Comcast, AT&T, Telefonica, America Mobile, ATT, SoftBank, some very large carriers. And we've got a product that's out that people are in like it now because SIP is getting a huge amount of deployment globally. As you know, the Cable Robbers are moving towards SIP and so are all the SIP truncings and growth, unified communications and growth. So we provide that deep analytics and anomaly detection layer that a lot of carriers need. And we're expanding globally now. We're in mostly North America, little tidbits in Japan and Mexico and UK. And of course, slowly we're expanding globally at this point right now. Thanks for being part of the panel. Yeah, that was fascinating. I worked for three SBC companies and we never did any of this. So it's interesting you built a layer on top of what session border controllers, for example, aren't doing. Right, exactly. So we basically complement the SBC in every deployment we work with. Right. And Al, it was a really good meeting you earlier and I appreciate the video. You almost need a video introduction to talk about your user experience and the value that Console Cloud brings. Maybe you could describe it in words, given lack of a video here. So yeah, my name is Al Berge. I'm the CEO and founder of Console. We're headquartered in Silicon Valley, California with offices globally. Unified communications, obviously voice video, for us it's, you know, another application and it is dependent on network. Organizations like Michael and Metropdic do a wonderful job in helping organizations connect to one another within a local region. But when you think of unified communications from a customer's perspective, you know, they're worldwide. And voice over IP, for example, is something that has a tendency to be very latency sensitive. And what Console has done is really created a platform that helps organizations completely bypass the public internet and directly connect what's business critical. This could be cloud infrastructure providers. It could be SaaS providers. It could be another organization within one supply chain, regardless of where they're located. And we've basically created various technology, including routing technology and so forth, to make this happen at a click of a button. So imagine something similar to a social network where, based on one's own self-defined criteria, you feel it's important to connect to another organization. You'd click a button they accept and you're now directly connected. The user experience on our platform resembles that. We've extracted all of the friction and configuration complexity to help organization A to connect to B within seconds. And it could be enterprise connecting to enterprise or enterprise connecting to cloud or cloud connecting to cloud globally. It doesn't matter if the other organization is the other side of the city or the other side of the country or the other side of the planet. We've created that virtual equivalent of A and B, being in the same room together, without having to endure any of this configuration complexity. And they have now a private, secure, better performing connection to optimize the user experience. And so that's, you know, in a nutshell what we've created with our console platform. Thanks. That's great. Last but not least, Brian. It's good to have you here as a provider in that perspective. Maybe you could share a bit of background. Yeah. Thank you, everyone, for coming. My name is Brian Shatko, the CEO of the Unified Communications that everybody is talking about. So I expect some royalties from everyone who mentioned it. So I keep, keep your notes about it. But you know, by bearing the name, we have a lot of responsibilities on the unified communications. And as such, obviously we're involved in our legacy voice business, including IoT, and we're also getting the infrastructure with our sponsorships of the Balkans Italy Network cable. It's a fiber optic cable that will connect Western Europe with the Balkans, which is an area that is currently underserved. What we bring to unified communications, the solution itself, is we work with operators to better maximize their ARPU, whatever their users are around the world, by targeting these communities with a better offer, better solutions to basically maximize this revenue per user. Great. Thanks very much. So the first question I'd like to pose has to do with evolution versus revolution. For those of you who lived in Breed Telecom, many in this room for many years, you have sort of the personal battle scars of living the sort of TDM to IP sort of evolution, long, painful process, not yet complete. But I think we're rapidly hitting on sort of revolutionary territory with a lot of the developments that have happened over the last really short number of years. Maybe you could talk about how you see that evolution unfolding and what are some of the key technologies and sort of initiatives, whether it's the API economy or some of the evolutions in IP networking that are really going to accelerate this evolutionary process to really make it more impactful to the enterprise, to the consumer. So I think evolution versus revolution. Michael, do you want to comment on that? Yeah. I mean, I can't comment on it from a user perspective as much as many of the other panel members can. What I can tell you is that I think fundamentally, internet traffic is exploding and you know, you look at the Cisco data, IDC data, you know, we're growing three, four fold within the next five years. So we have to address that. And I think there's an implicit assumption in that, that the infrastructure providers will do their job and they'll be well funded and they'll support that. But also the middleware, the application layer, the unified layer that will support that. And I think that's a big assumption quite frankly. Now, what can we do? Where is the world going from where to where? What we see is that there's a big shift in where that internet traffic comes from and that we need to support. So it's going from a transactional process oriented IOPS type of queries to video and voice demand and several other rich applications. But those two are the big ones. And then the question then is really how do we support that? And a lot of it is quite frankly has to do with simply capacity. So we need the network capacity and we need the data center capacity. And what we're learning is that the secret source we need to deploy is the interconnection magic in the middle so that people have choice, that there is redundancy in the system, that there aren't too many direct dependencies. The second piece goes to a really tricky issue of peering all that stuff. And how can we help in the middle? And what we are seeing is we need to become better at network architecture. And how do you create the interconnectivity between these networks even as a data center provider and dark and lit fiber provider so that your enterprise customers, you know, understand why it's better to be here versus in another location. Great. That's very helpful. James, you want to talk about the move the enterprises are taking to become cloud enabled software defined. What that means for your business in terms of, you know, revolution versus just some of the evolutionary stuff they've been doing for years. Yeah. So, you know, it's an interesting thing, right? So I've been coming to this conference since it started about 10 years ago. And one of the things when I'm sitting around with some of our when I go through this this type of show, I run into like 15, 20, 30 different people that I've gone to war with together with mostly not again, we compete. And when I go through that, you know, one of the things that if you really get us with about three or four scotches in us and we start talking, right? So one of the things we'll talk about is the difference between the folks that built the internet and the folks who capitalized on the internet, right? So we did all this hard work, right? We laid fiber optic cables. We built networks. We figured out topology. We got everybody to work together so we could pass information back and forth. And meanwhile, then a bunch of Bratz out in Silicon Valley went and created all these other cool apps and LinkedIn's and Facebook's and they threw it over the top, made billions of dollars and we're like, you know, that was relatively easy compared to what, you know, what we did. So when I look at the Bratz in Silicon Valley, I'm going to use that. That's right. There you go. Bratz and Silicon. I feel like, you know, being a telecom for 24 years is more like being in the mob. It's like, you know, once you're once you're in, you can't get out. These networks don't build themselves, my friend. So so when I when I look at things and we're going into the future, I think one of the things that we're focused on at least is not just enabling infrastructure and enabling technology, but really to go beyond that and think about things like information, right? Information has value. So we're big into what the big data scene. All right. So one of the things we are always trying to do for our customers is to capture lots of information and create queryable, reportable, searchable databases that provide that customer with a lot of information on what's taking place on their network. Okay. And lo and behold, as we're doing this for whatever reason we're doing it along comes this big word called, you know, big data. And there's conferences that just talk about big data. And as you get into big data, you start to there's two things that data analysts have have issues with, right? One is they need to find data because the enterprise doesn't have it. And two, if they can find the data, they want to be able to organize it and manipulate it in a way in order to create value. So I think where we need to be as an industry is we need to start helping customers turn information into profits and information into competitive advantages. So that's what we've been focusing on. And we like to think about all that information that we capture about, let's say, unified communications platform, who made what phone calls, who made what was on conference calls, what was going on instant messaging, what was the text in the information. That information is very valuable to a data scientist. So we're working hard to capture that information, put it in a reportable format, and then do partnerships with folks like, we do a partnership with a first company called Trustphere. And Trustphere has actually taken that data and they begin to create these big, wonderful graphs that show you how your organization actually works compared to what the org chart says about how your organization should work. So I think that's going to be a big thing as we go forward is, can we as either enablers, network carriers, solution providers with companies, can we give them information that gives them a competitive advantage? And can we help them to sort that out and become a key strategic partner? Because I think for too long, we've been selling to a small part of an organization at the IT level or the telecom or CIO level. And then we don't get back up in the organization. But if we can take that information, we can give them a competitive advantage, then CFOs, CMOs, CEOs, HR heads, those are the folks that all of a sudden become very interested in what you're doing. Great. Nami Tava, you've discovered a whole range of requirements that enterprises didn't know they had until they opened up with these new services and applications and realized they had some major gaps, right? So maybe you could talk about what those are. Sure, sure. Yeah, so definitely. So basically, what we see following to what James was saying about information and how to use that information at a higher layer. So we see a lot of that where we're able to take a lot of the security aspects of information, of the anomalous data of information and then set it up to the high alerters, whether to be linked in other applications. You know, what we see in the API economy is the need for integrating all that. So different companies are trying to take information and using that for their own applications, whether they be banking, whether they be finance, whether they be health care and others. There's all a new area called conversational commerce, which is something very interesting also. And what that is is really being able to use that data to do commerce. So I have a friend who started a company and I'm unfortunately guilty in part of that Silicon Valley crowd, as they say. So we started a company and it's all about using voice recognition to look at sales data.  I'm going to find out all about Citibank and I just talk into this computer system and it tells me all the latest about what Citibanks is doing, what their revenues are, what their groups are doing within Citibank. So it's just taking feeds of the internet and reading it to me. Then I come out of my meeting and I go in there and I can talk intelligently. I come out of there and then afterwards I talk about what I learned in the meeting and I send it into my CRM system by talking to it. And it starts integrating all the data and send it to all my sales team. So that's an application that's very interesting. It's part of these conversational commerce, which is the application that I'm residing with the APIs, with the integration of some of the data James was talking about and others points of data into some of the business layers. So we see a lot of that. And of course, being a security company, security is a very key ingredient of that. So you're able to dissect that piece and make sure that you have silos of security in all of those segments is also very critical as we integrate these environments also together. When I'm chatting with my artificial bot at Citibank, I want to know that conversation. Exactly. So Al, we were talking earlier and there's this often overused buzzword around digital transformation. And it's but actually, I think it really applies to what you're doing in the evolutionary versus revolutionary standpoint. Maybe you could talk about how you're really taking a revolutionary approach to how companies and providers connect and build networks. Yeah, certainly. In part as I guess part of that evolution, there is pressures on various CIOs and so forth. In seeing their organizations adopt more cloud, taking workloads and processes and so forth that would typically be conducted or reside on the enterprise data center or enterprise LAN and now moving it to the cloud. And with that, there's this realization now that as whatever the cloud service is, whether it's a cloud infrastructure or some SaaS application or what have you, the enterprise becoming more dependent now on connectivity leaving their building. IE, public internet, for example. And the public internet is something that is really this best efforts utility where you're not really in control over the path or direction of your data and so forth. And it's not consistent. It's susceptible to various performance and security issues and so forth. And so now when you have your valuable data living in the cloud and you're moving that, ideally, you're cognitive of that as part of that decision process. But in many cases, enterprises are realizing after the fact that now that they're more and more dependent on the cloud, how do we attain better performance in our experience in utilizing what we now have in the cloud. And so this whole notion of directly connecting. It's easy, I guess, if you're using a cloud that is within relatively close proximity. But what if it's a cloud company A is the other side of the country, SaaS company B, also the other side of the country, your financial partner or what have you, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera, globally. I mean, it's not necessarily in your backyard. And so for some, for those applications or cloud services that are much greater distance, there's this need to then, for organizations, thinking of directly connecting to these sort of things. Historically, this has been something that has been a very manual exercise needing to identify the location and building into that location, et cetera, et cetera. So it's highly manual, does not move at the speed of business, requires the average enterprise to have a seasoned team of internet architects on staff to go and configure. You can be very politically correct to mess. And so, you know, it's and it's not a one time exercise, you know, need to manage and monitor all of this stuff. And so we wanted to create a solution that made all of that easy, all of the friction and complexity in every step of that process could be fully automated such that an organization once on our platform just needs to click, click a few buttons and the magic happens and they're completely bypassing the public internet and connecting to these business critical cloud services and so forth. So I think this is a very important part of the evolution, this digital transformation that's happening and so forth where the comment of the Silicon Valley Brats, I mean, creating all of these applications and so forth, but no one really taking the time to, I guess, reinvent or create additional technologies from, you know, layers one, two, three at the network sort of layer and that's what we focused on and how to make that better, how to make it simpler and make it consumable, make it enterprise grade and make it consumable for the enterprise such that it helps enable cloud taking away that friction and really allowing all of this to move at the speed of business. I need it, I need it now. Please let me click a button, you know, and have it happen. Fantastic, thanks. Brian, you're a provider, so you have to balance all these evolutionary, interesting new services with what customers need and want today. So how do you see that mix of delivering services today over what's the next big thing that you see on your agenda? Well, for us, cloud is very important because the cloud allows us to repurpose our resources that, you know, previously we needed to reach to our customers. And as such, I believe that utilizing, you know, the API economy, utilizing the cloud, puts us in a better position to more effectively and more efficiently reach to our customer and serve our customer better because cloud gives you efficiency, it gives you connectivity and at a lower latency because you have your pops sort of virtually located around the world. And for us, it's the movement to the SaaS and to the cloud. It's not revolutionary but evolutionary, but in the way we serve our customer, it appears to be revolutionary, so. Great, that's helpful. As you all selling into the CXO suite, you're selling to CIOs, CTOs, I think every last one of you here, you get these challenging questions about ROI. You know, what's my ROI in terms of CAPEX? You know, dollars are tight in terms of OPEX. That counts constrained, you know, NetX in many cases, kind of a misunderstood part of the sort of financial model. So what's your position there and what's your story, if you will, on how you can meet those drivers to reduce all three elements of there as well as provide value add in terms of collaboration and communication. How do you balance those two? So I guess ROI is part of the next question for each of you. Yes, Kaddicks. So it's a loaded question. I think it, I have to say it really depends. For us, we're again an infrastructure provider, both on the fiber and data center side. The big question is clearly in-source, in-house source is outsourced. And what we see is an extreme shift from demand coming from enterprise to demand coming from the digital economy. And we have to adapt to that. And you know, with the enterprise, it's an ROI on, okay, if I do this in-house source is outsourced with the digital guys, they know your business just as well as you do and they actually know it better because they deploy in so many different geographies with so many different providers, you better be on top of your game. So if you're Snapchat, you don't have to show your ROI on investment. No, you don't. They'll get, they'll right away come to the SLA and the price and they know exactly and they'll shop around and they'll try to give you as short of a contract for as long of a capital commitment on your side. So I think it really depends in which bucket you fall. And again, for us, it's the ability, what we really see the complexity of the ROI being for them is that, you know, what is cloud now and how do we work with that because it's efficient in so many ways but at the same time, it's everywhere and sometimes they need proximity to the eyeballs. This is something we constantly come up with and so they want services deployed closer to the consumer of the services but that creates an infrastructure challenge and an investment challenge and well, what does that give me then? Well, it gives me better performance. Well, that's important for the digital crowd. That is less important for the enterprise customer in general. Now if you talk to the transaction guys, they will spend adequately for extreme protection and redundancy in the system and that's again an element that is hard to quantify, right? So, I'm not giving you- What's the cost of not doing it? What's the cost of an outage? What's the cost of the entire time? That's it, exactly. So I can't really give you an answer that has really tight metrics around it but I think you have to be really good at... This is a challenge of getting to the decision maker one and two is really understanding what's driving this requirement and that's business basics but it's so much harder in this digital economy where everyone talks to everyone and they think they know everything and then you've got down two, three layers talking to the techie guy who's deploying it and you're talking to the sales guy who's giving you his cloud vaporware and okay, what is exactly the application that we need to service? Where do you need it serviced from? What are your requirements for that in terms of performance? And once you get to that point, you can do an ROI because you know what you're solving for. 90% of the time it is the hardest thing in the world to get to that right person, to ask the right question, get a specific answer and then being able to respond. Yeah, no, it's certainly selling 101. Is it James, when you're dealing with a CFO, maybe your CIO, what is your story around the return on that investment and I guess pretty data-driven given your products? Yeah, I think there's two things I'll touch on here. When it comes to UC analytics, there is an ROI that you can really calculate and watch because you can see how the enterprise is utilizing the technology. So I like to think of spending on telecom and technology as investments. I don't use the word expense, I call them investments because really, there's a kind of a subtle underlying tone there that says we should invest in telecom and technology because it's gonna make our people more productive and it's gonna help us to have a better organization. And that underlies almost everything you see in the telecom space and that underlying piece has moved us from TDM to VoIP to UC and I think the business case is pretty strong there. But I'm gonna go kind of beyond that. I'm gonna talk about security. So you can talk to any CIO in America and they will tell you about the vast amounts of money that they are spending to protect their networks. Security, security, security. And they are spending billions of dollars, arguably building walls that protect their enterprise from the rest of the world. Now, I sat down with one of the heads of security for IBM and he said, look, there's three major areas of security vulnerability in enterprise. They are platforms, processes, and people. And I was kind of geek, MIT geeks and so forth. We are cool with the platforms and the processes. We can get ourselves into that. But I kind of tell you, these people, these people are completely unpredictable and it's very hard for us to protect the network from people and I just don't mean the bad people. I mean even the good people. So I'll tell you how you can infiltrate any enterprise network in America, okay?  Do we need to get the witness protection? Yes, witness protection, okay?  Take a key fob with a USB port and put a virus on it. Now, make about 20 of these, go over to your favorite enterprise customer and go into their parking lot and drop those sets of keys all over the parking lot without any identifying piece of information on the keys. What you will find will be all of these wonderful, altruistic, best employees that you have in your firm will find those keys and feel so bad for their coworker who has lost their keys, they will pick it up and they will bring it into the office. Unable to identify whose keys they are as it nags at them more and more, they will notice that it has a key fob on it and they'll say, oh, God, if I plug this key fob in, I bet you there'll be some information and I can then identify the owner of these keys and bring them back to them, okay? And within a couple hours of leaving those keys around, you will be inside their network with whatever type of virus you want and the billions of dollars of money spent to create security outside that will all have been bypassed in a few minutes by your best employees, okay? So when I talk about return of investment, I say you need to watch your employees. You need to watch the bad ones, the medium ones and even the altruistic ones because they are gonna do things on your network utilizing the tools that you have that potentially are gonna put you at great risk. So the ROI on a UC analytics package of three to 5% on top of a UC deployment is peanuts compared to the amount of money you can lose when your employees either deliberately or altruistically jeopardize your security and bypass all of that wonderful software you've been sold. That's great. It probably doesn't hurt that that's ignored by most of the UC vendors out there so it makes your life a little easier. Redshift, you have a pretty interesting but esoteric technology, how do you communicate that to the CIO and the value and the investment required for you? So again, going along with James, some securities are bread and butter and of course, security is a huge issue for a lot of companies, Target, Sony, all the good things that you guys have heard about in the last year, CIOs losing jobs, et cetera. So such a big issue they're investing, I think it's a $100 billion industry or $150 billion industry. There are gangs out there that are doing DDoS attacks. So DDoS attacks, there's a whole chain of people out there that it's about a $250 billion industry just evolving around DDoS. So basically there's a guy who does the DDoS, guy who steals the data. So it's like a whole of food chain out there. Same thing with fraud. So fraud is a $37 billion industry.  So there's a whole, it can say supplier, reseller, you know, whole chain of command out there. Same thing for all these other attacks. So when we go into a company and we talk about ROI, the most important is what are you losing in fraud today? What are you losing in security today? What is the reputation to your customers?  Companies who get attacked, there's about 2.5% loss in revenue in a year after they get attacked. Of course, Target was a big issue. Their revenues went down, et cetera. I wasn't going to Target for the month, I think, but I heard that our cards were all stolen, right? Because I didn't want to have that happen to me. So you can imagine the impact of our company. So we talk about all those ROI numbers. Of course, when it comes to voice, they're a little different because people are used to all the information about data threats, right? How about the voice threats? So what we see is interesting out there is we show them, I mean, I have a site called, if you go to VoIP-attacks.duretshipnevers.com, you'll see actually the attackers attacking real carrier networks today. So what they do is they'll attack networks in New York in the morning, California in the afternoon, and Tokyo in the evening. So they're basically going, the same guys are attacking all these networks consistently. And so there is definitely a coordinated effort to attack these networks. And so we give them very empirical data because we're able to take a lot of the data that we see when we do the first trial with a customer.  And that way they have some really solid information to go build their business case within the CIOs and with the CTOs and CEO of the companies. It is definitely a huge issue. Just what do you see in the data world? The attacks are happening in the voice world. Unfortunately, a lot of carers don't know about it. So when we bring them the empirical data of what's happening in the network there, it's an eye-opener for them. That's huge. I mean, imagine if you're 1-800-FLOWERS and your network goes down on Mother's Day. Good luck with that explanation to your CEO. So empirical data is also very important for them. Al, your ROI seems almost too obvious in terms of OPEX savings and efficiencies. But is that how you explain the value to a financial decision-maker? Absolutely. So there's, I think it's Gardner. It says that the average enterprise, for example, is using 23 cloud services SaaS applications. I think in the case of our company, just for our own internal use and so forth, it's in north of 40. But that average of 20 plus. And it's obviously growing. Looking at alternative methods for a CIO to actually go out and consume these applications in a very direct manner, there's significant OPEX, reoccurring OPEX, and one-time CAPEX involved for them. But when leveraging our platform, what they'll notice is north of 50% savings in OPEX versus many of these alternatives. And from a CAPEX perspective, north of 95% savings. And this is, some of our underlying technology includes the fact that we've created routing technology. So it's equally feature-rich as that of a Cisco or Juniper or what have you, and not have to go out and spend tens of thousands of dollars. We own the IP, and so we have the equivalent for pennies. And the ability to give that technology seamlessly to an enterprise in every location that they would require that. So we spin it up, and seamlessly within our platform there's these virtual routers. We've been able to virtualize it as well and allow it to spin up globally. And so there's a dramatic CAPEX savings for the enterprise when leveraging our solution. That's a great story. Brian, I imagine you have a lot of customers unhitching their PBX and moving to you in the cloud. That's probably one scenario. But what are some of the others that you see in terms of demonstrating the financial return on moving to you as a service? Yeah, just to continue on the security theme, because it's a very important one. Obviously, your return investment is as good as you secure it. It takes one breach, one attack to basically mess up your numbers for the entirety of the year or so. The ROI, it's affected by the investment that you do in securing this. So that brings down that percentage, and it affects the way you operate. But we live in a different world nowadays where basically security is paramount. And the biggest of them companies that have our miss of IT people trying to make it secure get bridged. So you just hope you don't get a bit lucky, but you also have to put the investment to secure it. And that affects the ROI. And we are facing a lower ROI in terms of dealing with these new challenges that we're facing. So Jamie, how are we for time? OK, I think we covered a lot of really interesting topics. And happy, I think many of us are going to stay around here. And happy to chat and discuss further. Thanks, guys. Thanks.