Well, back with the breakfast and plus TV Africa, Sulemana Konde, a public affairs analyst, will join us on a first conversation as we look at the consent of CERAP. Now, in a letter signed by CERAP Deputy Director, Kola Waleo Luwadare, the organization has expressed serious consent about the shrinking civic space in the country. Assummed state governors and government institutions are reportedly using section 24 of the Cyber Crime Act, an order repulsive laws to crack down on anyone seeking to assert their human rights and media freedom. Now, it's interesting to note that the economic community of West African state echoers caught, had ruled in July 2020, that Cyber Crime Act violates citizens' right of expression. While describing it as vague, arbitrary, and unlawful, they also author the Nigerian government to repel or amend the provision. Meanwhile, section 24, subsection one of the acts made it an offense to send a message via a computer system which was grossly offensive, pornographic or of an indecent or meaningful character or to send a message or curse any such message or matter to be sent or to send a message knowing it to be false for the purpose of discrediting the parties involved. I mean, that's just that part of the Cyber Crime Act. Now, Sarah is urging President Mohammed Buhari to send an executive bill to the National Assembly to repel the provision of section 24 of the Cyber Crime Act on the offense of insulting or stalking public officials online by ensuring that the deletion of the provision from the act as ordered by the echoers caught. Now, Sarah, apart from that, is also urging the president to direct Abu Bakr Malami, who is the attorney general of the Federation and Minister of Justice, to withdraw all charges of insulting or stalking public officials online against activists, critics and journalists and show that they're released from unlawful detention and pay adequate compensation to those who have faced unfair prosecution on the basis of unlawful provision. Meanwhile, there's also an instruction to the president that Mr. Lai Mohammed, Minister of Information and Culture and National Broadcasting Corporation, or Commission, by the way, to immediately reverse the habitual and lawful fine of five million narrow imposed on channel television for purportedly violating the NBC code in the program with the Labour Party vice presidential candidate, Dati Baba Ahmad. Now we have a guest joining us, Sulemana Kande. Thank you so much. Good morning. Good morning. Thank you for having me. I mean, so let's quickly get to the crux of the matter. First, I'd like us to, you know, look at the judgment. What do you make of the court order, you know, by echoist community, asking the reversal, saying that, you know, the section of that particular criminal cyber, criminal cyber act, it's in contraversion to the fundamental human rights of the people? Yeah, my take is this, as a democracy, and if we really want to get, we've come a long way to get into this particular position, we must make sure that nothing in any way or in any language stifles media freedom. Media has played a very huge role in the sustenance of our democracy up to this day. And at least we're not in a guerrilla republic or running the military rule again. And people have always argued that the media and the civil society are the fourth arm of government. So anything that stifles the media space is something any level of democracy should not be happy with. But at the same time, we must also understand that regulation of the media space is not out of this world, even in the advanced democracy of this world. Media or any other human endeavor is always regulated. And if we say that these mediums are not regulated, we'll be sliding into anarchy. So, well, this is a two-way thing. That is, just like a human right is a two-way thing. That's wherever your own right stuff, another person right start from there. So my take is this, instead of repealing that particular act, we should rather go for amendment, whereby we should have a case based on the merit. If some people have all argued that NBC should not be a judge in their own matter, rather media houses that contraven the broadcasting code or the ethics of journalism should be charged to court and from the court should make the pronouncement, not NBC. But people have also argued that no, NBC had that power or acting the law to give sanctions to any media house that contraven they had. So to me personally, I just felt that I've been a victim of media bullying before. And I believe that as human, we should find a middle ground to tackle this particular issue. That is, media should not be stifled and at the same time, we should preach responsible journalism. I understand your thoughts generally on this, but I'm asking that what's your position? Because what Sarah was talking about is making reference to the court ruling or judgment that was given by the Echoes Court in 2020, which has said that it has described that section of the cyber crime act as unconstitutional, unlawful, when you juxtapose it to the laws where Nigeria is part of a treaty, we're part of that particular treaty, in the international community. So I'm asking, what do you make of this? Yeah, cyber-stalking. Personally, if you ask for my personal opinion, public officials, I also have a personal life that you understand. And cyber-stalking that is come to their personal life, I'm not, I won't say it's good to allow people have their way when they attack public officials unjustly. But if it has to do with things that they have to do with their discharge of duty as a public official, at least they work on development. That's why we have case of investigative journalists at least looking into how public officials discharge their public duties among qualities. So for me, it's not the total repeal of that law, rather we should go into amendment of it. I'm not for the total repeal of that particular law, rather we should look at which of part of the law that abuse people in their religion, people, personal, human rights, and all that is, that's my take. No, so but if you look at article nine of the African chat on human rights and people's rights and article 19 of international covenant on civil and political rights, which Nigeria is also, you know, a party to, I mean, it's a state party to, they're saying that these particular laws, our laws are contravening human rights. So at what point do we even get to a part where we formulate laws that contravene, you know, treaties that we belong to that we are preview to and what their state. Now, if you belong to a certain organization and this is what they are stipulating and there's been a judgment and the fact that you are also practicing, you are a member to this, doesn't it, you know, doesn't it just reflect the fact that we're just a lawless people and we have no regard for the rule of law, whether or not it is internally or externally? Not at all. No law or treaties are made in isolation. Every laws and treaties have a purpose they're supposed to serve. So I'm looking at those and the article nine of those treaties you just mentioned now, it protects, that is media houses and journalists. No, I think that you're not even getting this entirely, Suleiman. It is not about media houses. It's about the fact that the human rights, fundamental human rights, when we talk about humans, we're not, first of all, before we're a human being, before we're journalists, before you become an institution, you're a human being. And Syrup is acting on the fact that if we already belong to you, we have agreed or we're party to some treaty, yes, and there's been a lot of ruling that's been given. They're saying that this contravenes it. You're saying that you have limited the people, not necessarily pinpointing to say, journalists, the set of people or clergymen or whatever it is. They're talking about the fact that you have fundamental human rights and fundamental human rights is not premised on a certain position or profession entirely. I think that that's where we're getting this conversation wrong. It's not about the fact that it's targeted at journalists, it's targeted at individuals in a free society, in democracy, in a democratic setting. And again, I ask you, the fact that we belong to a treaty, because I mean, you say that this loss is not formulated in isolation. And so before we are members of these, I'm not sure that this happened outside of our consent. We had representative, we're also a party to all of this. So when you become a party to a certain thing and then you come back home and then you have different laws that contradict what you have actually agreed to, does this really make sense in any way? No, not at all. If you get my point, I'm for this. And I say there, if you look at my introduction, I say any laws or any acts that stifled on the media should, I won't be a party to that, I should be looking to. Well, my point is this, why we have, for the mental human right, and I told you, human right is a two-way traffic. That is, wherever your own right to start, maybe someone right to also stop there. Someone used to say this, that you have the right to raise your hand into the air. But the moment that your hand is touching my own nose, I also have the right to complain. So if you're talking of human right, it's a two-way thing. The public officials are never one you are talking of. They're also human, just like the other person that is using that of sad delirium. So if this law works for everyone, either the victim or the perpetrators of this abuse of human right, it doesn't matter yet. My point is this, either the right there, when this right works, we must also look at all that into consideration. That is why the issues of media stifling comes in. That is if the media as a body also have a responsibility to make sure that any statement, and I think that's the first thing that comes in, that is anything, any right that threaten our national security, that is that right becomes a secondary. For example, if you have someone that comes to use your platform to incite or eat up or a quality, and I think the authority also have the right to also call whoever is doing that into action. So that's my point. So it's not about, my point is not really on the media or anybody, but any right that also stifled on other people's rights should also be a big check. So media or either media, either clergy or whoever it is. So any right that threaten our national security, that particular right should also be checked. So when I party to the ECOAS treaty, no doubt. We also have our own internal laws of solving a mechanism. If you look at all the advancements in the world, be it America, UK. So I'm also asking you, Suleiman, I'm also asking you, you also need to understand it where members of the ECOAS, because in the course of saying, hey, we need to understand the rights and what have you, is the fact that let's even take, for example, when we had the cash scarcity or the redesign, the policy redesign conversations going on. So we said, let's redesign the Naira notes and then we had the issue of cash non-availability and what have you going on in our space. Then you had the conversation where people said, the Supreme Court had given a ruling. And I'm sure that you probably were part of this conversation that the Supreme Court had given a ruling that those rulings should be respected, that the Supreme Court is supreme. So whether or not people are pleased with the judgment or the outcome of the Supreme Court, because it is the court of law that rule should be respected. So then again, we're saying that if the ECOAS court had ruled since 2020 and asking the Nigerian government, because that's the premise on which syrup is basing their conversational argument on, that there should be an implementation of the ruling of the ECOAS court. So we're not saying that whether the details of it, whether people should not respect rights or another person's rights is being ignored. But the fact that the court had given a ruling since 2020 in July, and it is yet to be respected, which they have stated categorically that you should delete or amend it and that has not been respected and we're in 2023. So what does this speak of the Nigerian government? So yes, you are saying that yeah, you're in support that it should not be deleted, it should be that. But the ECOAS court has been a ruling and that has not been implemented because we've had cases where governors of different state have set on that particular act. They are still using it to hone on people and act in different dimensions. And then the court had given a ruling. We are part of the ECOAS community. Does it even make any sense that we have no regard for the rule of law whatsoever, whether the laws that we make or the laws that we're party to? No, you've just mentioned it now. No, no, no, no, no, excuse me, sir. I had mentioned it. I asked you what your thoughts were about the ruling of the ECOAS court. And then you dive into another conversation. And so I'm bringing it back to you again that what do you make of it? They have, it has been very explicit. We're being on the rule of law. The court has ruled. It's a regional court, which we're part of. I mean, we're part of the ECOAS community. And then there's been a judgment saying, you have to disregard, you have to discard it. That particular act, you know, the cyber crime act, it's in contravention of the law. It's in contravention of human rights.  And they have given their ruling and they are saying that two things are involved. You amend or deleted entirely. There's no respect whatsoever because that has not been respected. So I ask you again, does it even make any sense? No, it doesn't. I'm just telling you this now. You may mention of a point now. I say no treaty, no law or act are made in isolation. You just may mention of the law says that you either amend or delete that section of the constitution. And we have to look at our peculiarity. Law is made by... No, excuse me, sir.  And you are also, I'm sure that you're also part of the people who said that the court, because whatever ruling that the court gives, because the court is supreme or the laws of the court should be abided, then it should be respected. So, I mean, you are now saying we should consider and what? Should we as a nation, excuse me, should we as a nation not have respected from 2020 the ruling of the Echoes Court? No, this is it. The ruling of every APS court, not even just APS court, regional court of West Africa now. So, that of a ruling is binding. And I told you that this is the wordings of the ruling. That is the letter of the law. It said those law that infringe on human rights should either be deleted or amended. I now said on my own personal opinion, I felt such law should be amended to reflect our reality as a nation. I now say that in human right, in the human right is a two-way traffic. That is any law that says that you should, yeah. Excuse me, sir. My question to you is, what does it make of us from 2020 that we have not implemented the ruling of the regional court of the Echoes? Which is also in line with your thoughts. That's what I'm saying. What does it make us as a country, giant of Africa? I'm with you. It doesn't speak well of us as a nation that we are a serial abuser of court processes that isn't be the APS court or regional court as the case may be. Yeah, you get to my point. So, the idea now is that such ruling 2020, from 2020 to now is a lot like three years ago, such ruling should also be looked into. What you must understand, the Echoes court does not work like the normal court you have in this country. Your representative has to prepare the same thing again. Either you are appealing the same, you have a case of saying that, oh, this is what we have been doing, or this is what we are doing as a nation. And executive order, the president has a right to also send down executive order down to the National Assembly, saying that social and legal law should be looked into. I get to my point. For my point to remain this, so these rules are not made in this nation. And each of these, when you look at it, you have to look at the merit. I get to your point. Rulemo is not a shawarma that is served on the table. You must obey, really, that it serve you right or not. But in my personal opinion, I believe that human right or whichever right we are discussing should have a two-way thing. That if you look at the merit of the law, you look at where should be amended. And if it is possible, you can even go on to what you need. Sulemana Konde, I'm sure that if you are very explicit with the ruling of that particular court, the regional court, it was very explicit, is simplicity in the words of the legal petitioners. He suggested that you either delete or amend, and that's very simple. So again, we're still having a conversation. Then we still have to get to a point where we're asking where a civil society would have to then pop the government as to respecting or acting in accordance to the tenets of a democracy, and especially when you're a big figure in the continent. Again, just before we caught the conversation or just call it a wrap at this point in time, I'd like to ask you now, just recently what Sarah was asking is that there be an executive view to that effect. What do you think? Do you think that that's going to be a reality? Do you think that this government, just a few more months before they get out, do you see that as a thing? They have also made several requests asking that all charges be dropped against those who have been arrested, journalists, activists and what have you. And to that effect also, asking the CBN of recent time to withdraw that particular fine, the NBC on Channel's television. Yeah, it's unfortunate that it has to get to that that a government agency start using a fine on the media houses. And I told you, any article that stifles the media space should be condemned by all of our democracy. So I am of the greatest opinion that the NBC should, withdraw such a fine against Channel's TV and at the other time and also look at the, a lot of journalists that have been locked up or being sued for one thing or the other. I think that's the best thing to do. But at the same time, I have my point. I believe that we should also treat the part of practicing responsible journalism, whereby the right of orders are respected. The piece of the country is also put at the foremost of everything we do. And also anything that trapped in our national security should not also be giving the space or the other than to try or even the head to try. Well, Suleiman Akonde, we have to go at this point in time. Thank you so much for being part of the show. We do appreciate you and appreciate your time as well. Thank you for having me. That's the size of it. This morning on the breakfast, we take a break. When we return, we look at the fact that Labor Union has vowed to mobilize workers against Tunibu's government, come first of June or in June, as against the removal of subsidy. Please stay with us.


We just sublimated on these black t-shirts using two techniques I use bleach and sublimation and I use Caesar's easy subly and we'll show you how we did it right now What is up a welcome back feeling to do a builder make it so do we and we have a new video Each week this week.  We'll miss them Yeah, we looked at this four by eight sheet of plywood and this is the price $88 are you kidding me? So we have had to put that project on hold and we will continue some new Sublimation techniques that we wanted to try anyway I'm gonna try using bleach, but keep it very centralized and then sublimate on it And I'm gonna use this Caesar easy subly HTV and mass product So we haven't tried this yet, but I saw some reviews online. I think it's a great It looks like it's gonna work really well unless there's gonna be a great option now the thing about the two options This one's more expensive mine's cheaper But this one's super easy mine doesn't seem it as easy, but it's gonna be cool So let's get started Step one we're gonna gather over supplies for mine. I just needed a sublimation printer a heat press Some dark t-shirts. I have these Bella canvas Heather t-shirts. They're 50% cotton 52% cotton 48% polyester. I think they'll work then I'm gonna need some bleach To bleach it some peroxide to stop the bleaching some sublimation paper And because I'm using bleach and stuff some gloves some vinyl some high-heat tape and some like butcher paper I Might need a little more than Kim does And so for mine, I need this Caesar HTV easy subly kit. It's HTV and the mask and a Dark t-shirt well and a sublimation printer and a heat press. Yes. Yes, and these two things That's it That's it t-shirt number one a step two. This is actually gonna be my t-shirt This is gonna be the bleach then sublimation. It's gonna be a little harder, but it's gonna look so awesome I'm I got big plans for this t-shirt. Yes, so I need my sublimation paper and some vinyl I'm gonna do my print then cut using the cricket and then I'm going to do Cricket in our supply list. Oh, yeah, and you need a cricket I My image this was so easy to weed it weeded itself peeling it off the mat I mirrored it and then I tried to get This piece you can't see it as close to the center as possible trying to leave as much Of the vinyl around the edge as I can So that I have plenty of room For overspray step three now, we're gonna bleach I don't know what this is the motion for bleaching We're gonna bleach the area that we want to sublimate. So we have our vinyl already We're gonna put this folded up large pizza box Unused it's not used doesn't have any pizza grease in there. It's a clean pizza box We're gonna put it inside the shirt.  We use these pizza boxes for shipping Over the holidays and guess what? Not a good option for us With this MDF they would get crushed every I mean so many people Responded that they had issues with their packaging, but we've since fixed it and Now we get no issues with packaging. I feel like the USPS wouldn't treat a real pizza that way I mean, yeah, I think they would crush that thing All right, now we're gonna put our vinyl down should I press it at all? It looks pretty wrinkle-free Oh You want to show me what my Like what my hand would be like this far down. Yeah All right, Garrett has decided that Four finger widths isn't far enough down for him.  Oh, no, don't ruin it now All right, we're back in I would suggest you use some transfer tape I Was pretty let me hold the bottom. All right, I see about what's that pulling the bottom That's where it's going right looks good looks great. I don't know yet. I'm still I gotta see it down Let's see here's the image center of the image There's not the center of the t-shirt. Yeah, let me get the other side We can lay it down together. Let's do this together It'll be fine it'll be fine Now I'm putting my gloves on I don't trust this bleach stuff gets a little crazy The bleach in these little bottles, I'm hoping this gives me a nice mist So I just missed it. I don't want to get it soaking wet. I don't want it to soak past my stencil I just want to mist it in the area That doesn't have a stencil Then I'm gonna use the heat gun to try to speed this up a minute Prime the pump that's what I'm doing just a couple of misters And why are you using the heat gun? I'm gonna use the heat gun because the heat kind of speeds it up. It activates the bleach Heat or heat and light, but I think it's heat the stencil See what it looks like. Maybe I should have taken that Came out great and stayed like stayed right in place Perfect. Yeah, I'm surprised how in place that stayed. I thought they there'd be a lot more bleeding on the step two Going to sublimate the design now. Oh, didn't you and I hold up Getting a little make sure it's dry It can you touch it see it was dry? Yes, because you don't want to mix bleach and hydrogen peroxide when they're wet So now we're gonna use a little bit hydrogen peroxide to stop the bleaching Miss the whole thing wet this dry now We'll hit it with the heat gun, but on no heat and now we're gonna sublimate the design down Here's a little design. We got it prepped and cut Here is our nice Perfect crisp bleach area. I mean Super crisp you can see each of the mountains. It's so cool Now we're just gonna tape this down using this high heat tape Take it into place Chew I think I was good till I sneezed. It's got the pizza box inside still. We're just gonna put a little piece of Put your paper over top never going in 385 for 60 seconds What good feeling about this? Ready ready chow Could have lined it up a little bit better, but it came out pretty good. I like it Are you guys ready to see it? yours first I'll show them at the end. Now you can tell pretty cool, huh? I think it's cool. I'm gonna wear it. I could have lined it up a little better I think I should have made this image just a little bit bigger than the Bleached out area Well now because then even right here you can see a little bit of a line Yeah Yeah, pretty good. I like it. Yeah work Sure to a step to This one's Kim's her shirts just a little bit easier. Yep I'm using this Caesar easy Subly and it comes with two pieces. There's two components to it there's a mask sheet and a HTV print sheet So the HP HTV print sheet has a shiny side on one side and a little bit of texture on The front side. This is the side you're gonna print on the dull matte side Not the shiny side And then the mask sheet is vinyl you can kind of hear that It's vinyl and then this piece is throw away the clear top sheet is what we'll use for mask So let's go ahead and do our print first. We're gonna do a print then cut. Yep We're gonna use our cricket and we're gonna do a print and cut Using this is our paper. I did a two-piece are here We're going to go ahead and weed that so I'm gonna weed out everything but the image that I want transferred to my shirt We did we read some watch some videos read some information You can peel this right up if it was one solid piece You could peel it right up and sublimate it right onto your shirt But because we have a set of rainbow here set of rainbows and some words. We're gonna use the Transfer tape Vertical horizontally Yeah, I'm gonna try to transfer it this way and I pick up that one You can try Garrett's gonna get creative with it inches on their transfer tape next we're gonna take out our shirts These are 100% cotton no blend No, nothing 100% genuine Cotton you can do your lineup thing. Okay Yeah, and do you think I should set something insert something on the inside or you don't think I need to No, I think it's gonna work like vinyl. All right, I have it folded in half because I'm looking for a center Doing a quick press there. So It'll mark it for me Watch out 311 degrees not 310 not 312. Don't even come at me with 313 It's 311 degrees 15 seconds It's just 15 quick seconds 315 you way off mark and this is a warm peel a warm You do the honors did you find center? I didn't want to mess with it Are you sure that center? I know I think we press the line out, right? You know, it's still there. All right. Let's do it All right going back in 311 15 seconds keep it down low. You don't want it down low because I don't want you up there. Yeah So fun fact the cricket counts by fives. So we're actually doing 310 for 15 seconds No, it won't go 311. No Counts by fives don't even come at me with 310. I'm doing it 310 in it. You're done. I like it. I like it Come on huge shirts cool it down You're gonna get a dirty it's gonna hit the floor it's black All right ready ready Really still warm after all that flippity doing it's almost cold Man This was a lot easier pull out quicker That's nice And you don't have to worry about lining yours up like I don't see where yours and bled across the line Yeah, well, I mean they're two different techniques there You know one's easier than the other one's more expensive than the other here's the thing with this easy Subly we didn't share this the beginning this pack was I think $50 so but it does come with 10 sheets so you get 10 sheets More expensive than mine my blanche was like a dollar. I think my Hydrogen peroxide was like a dollar. I think the most expensive thing with my sublimation sheets But yours came out a lot better. I think I think I can get it better though I'll get it better. Yeah, I know you want to do another one. Yeah here. He has a sunset He wants to do yeah, I got this sunset that I want to do with some tie-dye inks come in same technique This was a test. I want to do the same technique with like a retro 1980s Miami vice kind of boom with the palm trees We'll be doing that next week Kim's gonna go with some kind of leopard cheetah print maybe some pink tie-dye on it Yeah Last step for these shirts is that you do want to wash them You want to give them 24 hours for this easy Subly to kind of set and then you want to wash them inside out in cold water Same with mine. You want to I don't know just wash it in cold water. You don't want to reactivate the bleach The sublimation SVGs will be available in our store at K and G make it calm Yep, you want your Superman air over the cliffs It'll be there. He's got you or if you want this. What is it magical AF magical AF rainbow? It'll be there. We created these One still smells bleachy a big thanks to our patrons We love you guys and we're about out of time So if you're not gonna join us for the patron after show we will see you next week Well, we'll do it build it and make it again We're back the soft things. There's nothing to uh, yeah Yeah, you didn't yeah, we didn't balance this time you made pizzas did you work at a pizza place? No That was pretty good. Yes


Well, the National Organization for Marriage has a new video out, and it's full of the usual crazy claims. Of course, we debunked all this during the Prop 8 trial, so it's easy to call them out, starting with a comparison of same-sex couples to drug dealers and pedophiles.  Nothing. This is just demeaning people, for no reason.  And then there's this, natural marriage. This term is nonsense because marriage doesn't come from nature. We're talking about something that comes from people, a set of laws. During the trial, Harvard history professor Nancy Cott testified the state is involved in granting a status to that institution that no informal marriage has ever approximated. Not to mention, with this term, NAM is calling gay people unnatural. It's just more name-calling. It's not surprising that NAM gets their terminology so wrong because their definition of marriage defies reality. Here's what NAM thinks marriage is.  There's a difference between sex and marriage. You don't have to be married to create children and you don't have to have created children to be a parent. No, this has been debunked by one medical organization after another. NAM knows that it isn't true. At least, to NAM's credit, this is sexist against both men and women. This is a hard claim to debunk because it doesn't even make sense, but what NAM seems to be saying is that if gay people can get married, then suddenly men will start impregnating women and then leaving them to go commit crimes. This is offensive to just about everyone, but most of all, to reality. That's actually true. Marriage has a stabilizing social influence, but not just for straight people. The same holds true for gays and lesbians. If NAM really cared about reducing crime, poverty and welfare, then they would want us to have the freedom to marry. So, what have we learned? That an organization calling itself the National Organization for Marriage apparently doesn't know what marriage is or how it works. This is another crazy claim that we could spend all day debunking because as everyone knows, including NAM, there are thousands of legal rights and ancillary benefits that accompany marriage.   It takes a lot of nerve to make such an offensive statement. NAM's talking about families here. They're dismissing loving committed couples as mere sex partners, which goes beyond civil debate and enters the realm of invasive personal attack. It's unacceptable. We know statistically that natural marriage creates the best possible family for children. This isn't true either. NAM may claim to know this statistically, but they don't cite any actual data. That's because those statistics simply don't exist. They're made up.  This is another weird claim. Businesses aren't funding anyone's relationships. It's true that in some states, companies may have to do business with gay couples, but that has nothing to do with marriage.  The law already treats everyone equally. Every citizen can marry someone of the opposite sex. That's cute, but NAM knows that that's not really what's at issue here. Yes, everyone can marry someone of the opposite sex, but only straight couples have the freedom to marry the person they love. Only straight couples can form a complete legal family unit with the person of their choosing. Gay and lesbian couples are out of luck. That's not treating people equally. And this is the same argument that people made for racist anti-miscegenation laws. These laws treat people equally, the argument went, because everyone is free to marry someone of the same race. That didn't make sense in 1967, when the Supreme Court ruled in Loving v. Virginia, and it doesn't make sense today. But only the union of one man and one woman should be promoted, because it alone is the foundation of a civilized society.  That's bad enough, but look what comes next. That's not bigotry, that's biology. So let's see, NAM just compared an entire minority group to criminals, called them unnatural, said they're a less fit to raise children, demeaned their relationships, and called them uncivilized. And then they say, that's not bigotry. At the American Foundation for Equal Rights, I'm Matt Baume. Thanks for watching.


This paper proposes a new technique called pointwise thresholding processor, PTP, which can significantly increase the Doppler resolution compared to existing methods. The PTP uses a combination of Golay complementary waveforms and a pointwise thresholding algorithm to reduce the range siloves and improve the Doppler resolution. Simulations show that the PTP can provide a delay Doppler map with almost no range siloves, resulting in a much higher Doppler resolution than existing methods. This article was authored by Jehoju, Yongping Song, Nanjiang, and others.


The Sharks are beating the Capitals 3-1, 25 seconds left, intercepted pass, Spinarama sets up the empty net, 4-1 with 20 seconds left. So these fans decide they got to get up and get out of here. What else could they possibly see? They bought their tickets on SeatGeek, they used promo code JohnBoy, they got $20 off and they've had their fill. This did it, this little intercepted, little Spinarama, BAM, empty netter, Sharks go up, we're leaving, there's going to be nothing else we want to see in this game. Wrong, they were wrong. Jonah Gajavich right there, look at that. First he goes to take the other dude's helmet off with his stick. You can see right here, he tries to ride his stick down his helmet. That doesn't work, see it right here, go backwards, BAM. That doesn't work.  See you later dude, show everyone that beautiful hair of yours. Not that good of hair, that's the joke. That's why it was so mean and personalized and offensive. 13 seconds left, 11, 10, Sharks are just messing around.  Probably not worth it at all. The game ends and everyone says cool, good job Sharks. The Capitals have now lost like two in a row on a bit of a stinker. That goalie redeems himself because he had terrible outing. His last game, but fight, those two want to go for it.  Look at this BAM, helmet punch, BAM, helmet punch. And then that dude punches the helmet three times. There's another helmet punch, they're just trading BAM. I mean, that one is right to the helmet, but it knocks the helmet off, which is key to the rest of this fight because he gets a couple more in and the wraps are like, game's over, what do we care? We'll just let this one go longer than we usually do.  You'll see that coming up. This punch, another one to the helmet and his hand kind of comes up like, looks like he's stung his hand on that one, BAM.  And you can see him come back from that one and look at his, look at his fingers and his eyes, both full of rage and red. It's just mad, frustrated. The game has ended. They should just be going home. Ooh, that was a nice one, I think. BAM, okay. And the refs still haven't stopped it. They're still like, yeah, this is fine. A little jab to the face right there. Those get under looked. Did that one connect? I don't know. But at this point, half the way on the Capitals, he realizes like, I got to get, oh man, one more punch. And I think that's when he realizes I got to get this dude's helmet off. I don't want to punch it.  And now he's just trying to get that helmet off, but that leaves him open for some overhand punches from Gadjavitch. Is that how you say it? And look at his eyes. And now I think this is like, ref, you're going to break this thing up because I can't punch his helmet that much more. And the refs are like, nah, keep going.  So he's trying to break free.   Don't do it. So now I think half the way is just like, come on. Come on, ref. I'm going to hold him still. You call it. Everyone's just kind of watching. Everyone's just like, OK, cool, guys. I'm going to hold him still. Call it. Call it, ref. I'm going to hold him still. I'm going to hold him still. OK, cool. Thank you. Thank you.  And everyone says, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Good job. Good job. And he's like, well, I don't know if I did a good job and we lost and I'm just fresh ready. Goley says, hey. And he says, hey. And then he's bloody. And he gets to celebrate with blood all over his jersey. Other dude's blood, not his. I don't think there was a winner of the fight. I think there was a clear loser. The guy who started it, lost the game, and then just punched a helmet repeatedly until his hand bled. I think he was loser of the fight. I don't know if the other guy won, but that guy lost. You could have been a winner. You could have went to Seat Geek. You could have used promo code Johnboy. You could have got $20 off and been at this game. Any game, any concert, any event, Seat Geek, $20 off your first purchase with code Johnboy.


Oh, hey, I've lost more prescription for some painkillers. I'm coming in, but I don't have the prescription anymore. Must have gone through the wash and that, and I call the doctors and that, but they close. I'm just such a nerd that we legally won't be able to give you those indications without a prescription. Like, I don't lie. Like, that's one thing about me. Like, I'm f***ing state sh**. I know some people probably like come in trying to get drugs and that, but like, I don't touch it. You know, the only thing I have a couple of beers every night, that's it. That should cover that legal part. What if I write a letter? Darren here, doctor said I can have valium and arpainkiller. And you can hang on that. I wouldn't be able to. Martha, everyone's got a price, Martha. 500?  Thanks, Holly. Hello? Sorry, who's this? Hello, this is Joel. I'm Sanjeev Knights. From Sanjeev Knights. I can't hear anything. Oh, it was very crackly. Oh, he's f***ing pulling me leg or something. Can you hear me, mate? What the f***?


Hello, everyone. This is the mentoring effectiveness of LFX mentoring programs. My name is Nate Waddington. I'm a developer advocate with the CNCF, and in that role, I do technical writing, as well as help run the mentorship programs across the CNCF. I'll let Diane introduce herself. All right, and I'm Diane Mueller, and I'm part of the mentoring working group under the CNCF, as well, the tech lead there. And I'm also the director of research and advisory services for a small analytics community company. Thank you. It's a jet lag day. So forgive me. At Betergia, and we have been working together on measuring and helping to manage the mentors and the mentees that are part of the CNCFs and the Linux Foundation's mentorship programs. And how to improve them. And how to improve them. That's the key. And to that point, so I'd like to explain just a little bit about the programs that we run. I've been a part of the CNCF for probably about three years now, but about probably a year and a half ago, maybe 18 months. I had started working with Ehor to transition. Ehor was running the mentorship programs prior to me. And unfortunately, he was living in Ukraine and had to step away to defend his country. So at that point, I had some very, very big shoes to fill because he had been running this whole program himself along with a ton of other things. And so one of the things that I was, again, I came in as a technical writer, so trying to figure out community management, which is a big, big part of open source generally, was something that was new to me. And so after speaking with some folks, we decided to create the mentorship working group under the CNCF's tag contributor strategy group. And the goal there was maybe a little bit about the tag contributor strategy is it's all about maintainers helping maintainers and having folks help each other to grow new contributors, which made for a good fit for the mentoring program. So its goal is to increase the number of maintainers, obviously, the number of contributors. We want, I mean, one of our big wins, and this is something we'll talk about a little bit later, if we can have a mentee become a contributor, a continuing contributor, become a maintainer, and then become a mentor again, completing the circle. That's top shelf goal there. So we want to increase the quality of mentorship of the CNCF. We want to increase the diversity of folks participating, both mentees and mentors. We want to increase the number of projects that participate, frankly. We have a lot of projects in the CNCF, and we'd like to see more of them contribute. We'd like to increase the number and type of work that's done. There's a lot of talk about code contributions, but there are non-code contributions. If you're a technical writer or a designer or even a project manager, we have got some work for you. So this is the type of thing that I'd like to increase the diversity of types of work. And so when we set up this working group, one of the things I was doing was having a monthly meeting, and I kept having these very rudimentary spreadsheets with numbers saying, oh, well, the last term we had, this many people come in, and this many mentors, and this many projects were. And then I don't know if you reach out to me or if. I think I saw one of your spreadsheets and, oh my god. Oh my gosh. That's not a way to track things. Yes, it's a start. I had an intuition on some of the numbers that we were getting, but when Diane saw the state of the effect of what we were doing, we started a collaboration where we really started to try and dig into the numbers because if we can't measure what we're doing and we make decisions, how do we know that the decisions that we made were successful? So I think at this point, probably I want to hand this back over to Diane to talk a little bit about how we move forward with the data. So if you go one more slide, and I'll talk a little bit about the research methodology that we've used. And I'll step back a little bit, too, and say, so for the past 10 years, I've managed a large ecosystem of participants in the OpenShift at Red Hat communities, which if you've been following the CNCF and Kubernetes, that was an exponential growth of the number of people participating in the community that I was asked to help manage and grow. And so when that happened, I stepped in and started using some tools from a company called Batyrgia that allowed me to manage and track the participation of developers, whether they're end user developers, code contribution developers, people logging an issue, all of that sort of stuff. And it was the secret sauce in my minor success in that world for a number of years. And then when I made an attempt at semi-retiring, I decided that I'd still contribute back to the CNCF and come play in the mentoring working group because mentoring is near and dear to my heart. And so what I tried to do for the mentoring working group as their tech lead is to apply those same tools and techniques that I use for growing an entire community to focus it down on the mentees and the mentors in the CNCFs, the cohorts for the different years. So the things that he had tied up and found up in spreadsheets. So many spreadsheets, too many spreadsheets. And we still have spreadsheets. We haven't gotten rid of all of them. But they have two main data sources. Besides GitHub, they have the Linux foundations, very nice, beautiful web portal for the mentees and mentors. And that has a back end to it that allows us to download the names of the participants and what cohort they're in. And my cohort, I mean, what period? Were they spring, fall, summer? And which year? And what term it was? And we have a whole thing. So we went and the Linux foundation, what he didn't mention, was there are a whole lot of other mentorship programs. So this little bit of research we're going to talk about today is just focusing on the CNCF one. So people who worked on CNCF mentorships. So we focused on that. There is the Google Summer of Code that the Linux foundation participates in, Outreachy, and every other Linux foundation that has a mentorship program. So the same techniques we're going to be applying. We'll talk a little bit about that to a few other things, like the Linux kernel. And so we'll talk a little bit about that. So what we tried to do was take the baseline data out of the Linux foundations back end from the mentorship and then use that to create, if you want to go one more, to create the subsets and the filtering for the different groupings, which allowed us to use all of those wonderful dashboards that we had. And we were being pretty particular about which ones we were doing. So it allows us to see people who are commenting issues, how they changed over time their affiliations with companies. So if they came in as a university student and then managed to get a job with a CNCF member organization or went off to another career in accounting because they didn't decided that maybe insurance adjusting was more fun, so you can go again. So that's kind of where we're doing that stuff. So give us another thing here. So I tried very hard to be very quantitative about it. So he's got all the qualitative stuff. The Linux foundation does a number of surveys every year asking people, how was it? Did you get what you needed out of it, those kinds of things. What I was trying to stick to would be very structured data collection, some of the things you can't really argue about, whether they made a commit or not, whether they logged an issue or not. And one of the keys to doing this is not just at the end of the term, but during the term, if someone hasn't yet made a merge or a commit and they're in a mentorship program, that's maybe a red flag for the admin of the mentorship program to go reach out to a mentor. And to that point, actually, it was interesting. One of the anecdotes I'd like to share here now is at one point, Diane was going through the data. And she said, Nate, there's something a little bit weird about this particular individual. Why this individual looks like they are this other individual. And I thought to myself, there is a very good reason for that, and that's because that person had changed their profile to apply again. So they said, you know what? For the LFX program, we're only allowing a person to participate once, but they wanted to participate a second time. And so they changed their data and made a look at it. And I only found out about that because somebody had opened a support ticket saying, hey, this person doesn't fit the category of being eligible to participate. Now, had I had that data set three weeks earlier, I could have solved some problems right off the bat. So these are the types of things, as an administrator, that I'm looking for in terms of these data sets. So the whole goal of this was to create repeatable, reusable dashboards for people like Nathan and other people in other mentorship programs to be able to flow through. And watch and monitor the programs as in real time.  So take a little bit. So this cohort dashboard is, you can see that's doing something here with a filter, which is the list of all the names of the people who participated. So Vitergia comes with a bunch of identity management tools. It's called Sorting Hat, if any of you are Harry Potter fans, which is kind of the whole gist behind Vitergia's naming conventions, I think, for their products. And then filtering it on for the last seven years. So then you can get all the stats that you would normally see for developer participation. But this time, it's filtered down just to that cohort. So those two things are really powerful when you can group people together and then look at them over time as they're evolving. So the other thing is we can see things like retention. So one of the key things that we're really looking for is if they stayed in their project, post their mentorship. So some people come in and they do multiple internships. They do a Google Summer of Code. They'll do one with Intel. They'll do one with Red Hat. They'll do one with us. They're building up their resume and their career. But they're jumping from project to project. And so really, which is great, and lots of people do that. I'm shocked at how many did so many. I look at these people and I'm like, oh my god, where did you find the time to do that? But what we're looking for in the CNCF is we're trying to train more people to do things, like Kubernetes and be cloud natives. And we would really like, if we're going to put the effort into them being mentored, that they would stay and grow into being active participants. So we can look at, post their event, we can look in and see who stayed and who didn't stay. Whether they stayed in the focus of their mentorship or whether they went on to work in one of the other. How many projects are there? I have 177 projects asked on my check. So there's lots of things for them to choose from. So we're not totally particular. Well, and that's one of the things too that I think one of the things I'd like to do is redefine what winning is a little bit.  I'm really into storage and goes off and does another internship with somebody else and says, OK, well, I'm not doing cloud anymore, but I'm still working an open source over here. I think that's still a win for us. And that's the type of thing that we can find out here as well. And you can't do that with a spreadsheet. So here you go. So part of it too is the retention, whether we retain them within the project so they continue to work. Say they did something in flux as an internship and then they stayed on and continued to work in that, or whether they were at a university and then ended up working at another company, especially wonderful if it's a CNCF member organization. The other thing is even if they didn't go to a CNCF member organization, maybe that's a new potential member because we may not have known that that company was using flux or service mesh or Kubernetes. And here we have this wonderful database with all the indexes and that we can see over time their affiliation change, so their career growth and what projects they're working on are really important. So you start to drill down on that. The other things that are really interesting if you're a total data nerd like we have become than I am, is the connections between projects and people. And some mentors are better than others. Or at least are more prolific. More prolific. And I think this is the one thing. If anyone is watching this out in YouTube land afterwards and you are a maintainer on a CNCF open source project and you haven't come and talked to Nate about utilizing the mentorship program, it is the hidden secret of the whole CNCF. They are paid for the most part. Our mentees are all paid. Are all paid. Some of the Linux kernel ones are unpaid, I think. But some of the older ones. Potentially. Potentially are some of them. But if you're a CNCF and you have an artifact or some documentation or something you need done, this is an amazing program to participate in. And it doesn't really, it's not that hard to get involved in and there's a call for papers coming up soon. But one of the things we start to look at is the connectiveness that they retain from the mentor. So in this case, if we zoom in a little bit, the next slide, we can see that affiliation was meshery and we were trying to figure out why was all this meshery stuff going on. And that's a wonderful project. They sponsored a whole bunch of small artifacts and really effectively used the mentorship program. If you go one more time. And then this guy popped up. If you haven't met Lee Calcott, then you haven't been around the CNCF very much. But he runs a small company now called Layer 5. And he has really effectively used and grown a number of people within his network of who have then either gone on to continue to contribute to meshery or actually even if you click one more time. Oops, have gone on to join Layer 5 as employees because they spent this time being trained. So this was kind of one of the wonderful things about being able to drill down on the data and see it over the life of these people's careers. We focused in this first half of the research because we've only been doing this for a few months now. About three, yeah. Three months on the mentees. But the same can be said to be true for the mentors. Some of the mentors, these are the first times that they really managed other people. It's a great growth opportunity for them to learn skills around managing developer resources. So let's go again. So you can also see that it's not just the meshery project that benefited. We can drill down and see that this small little cohort that we were looking at had contributed to over 33 other CNCF projects. So you can see all this from the GitHub data, from the comments, from the issues, from the mailing list participation that we've pulled into the data lake that we use and the indexes that parse through it all. So these are the kinds of tools that we're really trying hard to, oops. Sorry. You can run that if you'd like. I think I can run that. Let's see. There we go. Sorry then. So we can see these things and what we're really looking for is patterns and best practices. So when we look at someone like Lee who's done this and we still do have spreadsheets, we can also see other companies and other projects that have really effectively done this and we can encourage and talk to those mentors and find out what they did and what the best practices are. And some of these things popped out big time. Let's go to the next one. Before we move on, I really want to emphasize that. Mentees who participated in the mentoring program with Lee went on to contribute to 33 other projects. That's a force multiplier. That's an impressive amount of contributions to have generated. Yeah, and so you have also this other virtuous cycle of people who were mentees who became mentors and so we can track that too because some of that data is flagged there and... It's flagged and it's a very rare thing to... I think I can count it on one hand how many times this has happened in the last few years. So finding those pieces of data is really helpful because then you can go back and see what the process was. Like, oh, well, who was doing this? What were they doing? Yeah, and then you can nurture these people and support them and then help them go back to their organizations and say, see, you allowed me to do these 10 mentorships at, you know, with Huawei and Hong Kong, Ren was the example that we pulled up but there were lots of these patterns that we could see in the data now and all of these things, if you're managing, if you're at a foundation or an open source project and you're trying to manage your mentees, you can't find that with a spreadsheet and so this allows us to see these connections between people. So then if we're looking for a mentee that has contributed to, say, EtsyD or logged an issue at least on EtsyD and then maybe is working in Kubernetes and you're trying to find someone to mentor, to work on some artifact, you can use these tools to do that and that's really what we're trying to do is kinda look at people as they flip through and become mentors and mentees because those people, I think originally you had to be a maintainer to be a mentor and I think they've switched that around a little bit now. Yeah, we did, we made that change about a year ago and again, maintainers are some of our most time-starved community members and to say that, oh, if you wanted to participate in the mentoring program, you have to be a maintainer was too ornerous and so one of the things that we found was saying, okay, if you have a trusted contributor with commit access or approve access at least and the maintainer is willing to sign off on it, then we were able to grow, I think we went from something like 50 or 100, last year to 100, almost 150 this year, even small changes like that saying, okay, you know what, who is eligible to be a maintainer or can we have multiple maintainers on, rather, sorry, mentors? There's too many M words here, maintainers, mentors, mentees, saying, okay, you can have multiple mentors on a thing and not every one of them has to be a maintainer as long as the maintainer signs off on it at the beginning, then we're able to include a whole lot more people, really grow our pie. What was the next one? It's no much. Yeah, so the other thing, you know, a lot of it is about retention rates, like did they stay in the ecosystem? Did they go to join a member organization? Did we grow a skilled developer or a technical documentation person or a website person or a kernel, you know, what is being able to watch these things and grow them has been really, really, really helpful and, you know, some of the stuff, you know, making sure people don't disappear off the radar, we had one of the best practices that came out almost immediately was on the Linux Foundation's profile pages, an incomplete profile was almost a perfect red flag for someone who was not going to be retained in the ecosystem. You could correlate those two things pretty closely, so we've been able to go back and in this next cohort, make sure that they did do a good job on their profile page and so people could find them to hire them. These are basic things, but you wouldn't expect them, but you can see that corollary pretty close. Well, this is where this is all feeding back into is, as we're writing our administrative guides for our mentoring programs, these are the types of things that we're putting back in, saying, okay, well, these are our list of best practices as we know them. So go for it, other areas of research. All right, so today you heard in the opening keynote, Linus was talking about 50% of the maintainers have been there all the time and then the other 50% are doing one little kernel patch and then walk away and disappear. And so one of the thing, and it was really gratifying to hear that because it correlates with some of the numbers that we're seeing, so we've also started working with the Linux kernel mentorships. So that's really the next series of cohorts that we're gonna do some deep diving and analysis and we've started. And one of the things we did because we were so interested in seeing how the retention in the ecosystem and how important it is to get them to stay to be maintainers for the kernel because the average age is getting older. That's a fair characterization, thank you. We got some gray hairs going on that we really wanna make sure that we're nurturing these things. And Shua Khan who works with the Linux Foundation, way down here you can see if I can do this. This little one is Shua Khan and we filtered up here on just all the names of all of the people that she has gone through and she's been one of the mentors for. A lot of times there's two mentors for each of things but I just filtered on. Everybody that Shua had worked on and what companies they were working on. And so this is, she's got people working on Elisa, on the kernel, on drivers, all kinds of things underneath her and we're really trying to use this same methodology we use for the CNCF to help with the Linux understanding, the Linux kernel mentorship program and how we can make it more effective. And again, this is for me, I mean I love these diagrams and I know they're very tiny and you probably can't see them so download the PDF and scan them out. But the really interesting thing for here is to start to look at the affiliations and I did this the last seven years but I think it's, Linus said 23 years of that so we have all the data for the Linux kernel in the data set now. So I could go back to this and what's interesting here is this is the network diagram of everyone and how they're related of hers to Shua. So all of the people that she mentored, this is her connection list and whether they're still in the community or not and whether they're contributing. But it also over time the affiliations show up as well and it's the affiliations that show up in these graphs at the time of their contribution. So one of the really key things is being able to do that and if you go to the next slide I think that shows it a little bit better. It's like, this is just Shua's diagram here but you can see that she worked at HP until 2019 and then Samsung now she's at the Linux foundation but at the time of the majority of her contributions in the last seven years, though I think the last one that was in that cohort group was she was working at Samsung. So the affiliations still stay tagged to whomever they were working for or they declared themselves as working for. And the data is really, it is coming from GitHub what they did over time, the historical data analysis of GitHub and the repositories and taking all that information and being able to pull all of that together. So if you go one more. So for them it's again the same thing that's really beyond retention is really trying to find out mentees who became mentors and the most important thing really in the Linux kernel is and we can grab the maintainers MD files from all of the sub directories and use those to flag people as maintainers and see and compare who's come in as a maintainer after they did a mentorship program and growing more mentors. So sorting out who can be a mentor and partnering them with older or not older wiser more experienced mentees and mentors. And the next thing that we're doing in one of the things I'm really psyched about being here is we're adding in all of the projects from the automotive linux ecosystem too. So we'll be able to see if there's any crossover from the Linux kernel participation to all of the stuff that's going on in Yachto and everything that's happening in AGL too. So making just like we had for the CNCF all of the CNCF projects in one big data set that we can compare where people are moving to and from we can do the same thing. My hypothesis is there's a lot of overlap between a lot of us going on in the Linux foundation. Or not. Or not. They could all be working on drivers and never going to the core. So go for it. Yeah. And so that's, again, so what we're trying to get out of this is how do we improve our processes and our practices. LFX profiles are a big part of people being able to get hired from having done a mentorship, making sure that your GitHub profile is, if you just have the default profile, that's good. But you can change that and make it a real, you can tout your achievements right there as your own personal website, but within the GitHub ecosystem it really is effective. Again, I sort of talked about the once is enough anecdote already, but it was really one of those things where it sort of showed me the power of having data sort of at your, instead of having to have somebody open a support ticket saying, hey, there's an issue here, to have been able to catch that and not have to have gone through any disciplinary action and just said, okay, well, instead of accepting them and then saying, sorry, you're actually not accepted, to have been able to predict that and catch that in real time would have been amazing. And then some of the things that we're doing and the Linux Foundation is already doing this, but following up with surveys to really find out, okay, well, because this is all self-reported and whatnot, looking at LinkedIn, looking at GitHub and whatnot and associations there, reaching out to former mentors, former mentees and seeing where they're at today and how they feel having gone through the program earlier. I think that was one of the things, too, is that the research methodology, I'm all about the data. That's really, I love the data, but I think one of the things is all the follow-up surveys that we have to do as well, we have the connections to the people through the Linux Foundation's mailing list and trying to make sure that they stay connected to the CNCF or we know why they didn't, if something happened or they all did go on to become actuaries instead of developers. What happened? It happened once, so that's why I keep rounding on that. But it also allows, make sure that nobody falls off the rails here. We can really keep track, real time, of the participants in the present cohort as well and flag much more, much better early warnings when somebody's not participating actively or has not been able to meet with a mentor and stuff. So it's a mix of the qualitative stuff and the quantitative stuff. And I always say, if you don't have context, you can't do this. If you just have the data, you need someone like Nate who's dedicated to this, knows all the players and where they're hiding. And speaking of the players and where they're hiding, one of the things that I feel like we need to get better at in our program is thanking them. A lot of folks spend a lot of time mentoring. It's not a small thing that we ask folks to do. And there's also the companies that they're working for. All of our mentees are paid. That's coming through the LFX, but the mentors we expect are all paid by their employer to do this work. And so thanking both the mentors and the member companies that are supporting them is another piece that we're adding in, moving forward saying, okay, how can we thank folks? How can we show tokens of appreciation be it credibly badges or other pieces of appreciation that we can bring forward? I'm gonna say one more thing is that, I'm here, improving engagement practices, but also giving people like Nate at the different mentorship programs the tools to do this because I think he just sort of glossed it over. I think they went from 30 to 50 people in a cohort to like 150 people. And when there's only one administrator, that's a really tough thing to manage and to keep track of these people and to not be able to have some sort of a dashboard or something to help with the automation. So these guys, Ihor before him, Nate, the Shua, the Linux, who's managing the Linux kernel folks, these people are just doing amazing things. And what we really, as part of the mentoring working group, we wanna thank them as well and also give them the tools and the best practices and documentation feedback loop to make this even a bigger problem for them to solve. And so again, going back to some of the mentoring working group thing that's part of, we've now recruited a community member to help administer Google Summer of Code with us. We're just shifting chairs now. And so I'm still staying on as a co-chair. We're being on a new co-chair who will likely be helping with some of the administration of the LFX program as well. So we're trying to, even in the organization, have community members come in and participate in this way as well. And this is just an interesting piece of 170, and this is again CNCF sort of focus rather than going back to the Linux foundation level, but only 55 of 177 projects have participated in the mentoring program so far. And so while as a project, why would you want to participate? Well, you get a piece of work done, right?  You get to recruit new contributors. You've got an increase in your project's visibility, especially if people are writing about it and doing blog entries for the work that has been done. So it's a real opportunity to help grow your project in a very productive way where you're helping people come along and grow their careers. This slide actually was, I think, left over from the member summit, but I'm gonna keep it in here because if you're a member organization of the CNCF, why would you want to participate in the mentorship program? Well, again, you get a piece of work done. If you're supporting an open source project that you're already depending on as a part of your business and you've got one of your employees working as a mentor, then you've got the opportunity to learn who some of the folks in the ecosystem are and potentially that's a way of recruiting people into your company. So yeah, both recruiting mentees as contributors but also potentially recruiting mentees as employees. I think the other thing, the visibility that we get now down to the affiliations of the mentors and the ability for us to go and thank the mentors organizations for letting them be mentors. I think sometimes it's a surprise to the mentors organization that their person has spent this time and effort as a mentor. And I think that's one of the things that we're trying to build into our practices for the mentorship programs is making sure that they're properly supported by their member organizations, that the member organizations really see the benefits of allowing their employees to do so. And that's really one of the key things here for member organizations. We've always heard Kubernetes is hard, all these things and we need to get these skilled technical developers out there and technical documentation folks out here. This is why this program exists and anything we can do to facilitate scaling Nate. There's a lot of very talented mentees out there. Please hire them. So why should you be a mentor? And I think that this is very similar to why you would want to be a mentee. It's an opportunity to grow your career. A lot of, I hope, and I'm coaching now, our mentors to include mentoring work in their promo packets. If they happen to be working for a company that does that. You're growing your network, you're meeting folks who are new in the program, coming up and potentially if you're new in a job. And you're saying, hey, I've got this open source project that I'm working on and I've written a proposal for a mentorship term and submitted that and got that accepted. So you're showing thought leadership on, okay, what needs to be updated in a project. You're doing interviews and figuring out who should best do that work. So you're hiring people, you're managing the work that they're doing. These are all full-time programs for the mentees.  So now all of a sudden you can see, okay, well, this is how I'm communicating with my mentee. We've got these issues opened up. Here's the PR that my mentee has opened up. Here's the feedback that I've provided them and the changes that they made based on my feedback. And then you've got, hopefully, a merged commit and then you can say, okay, not only have I coached somebody through this whole process, I've also been able to communicate that to my boss, potentially, and hopefully getting some recognition from that, from the employee side. So I think we're just about out of time here. So I think we've got a little bit of time left. I've got two minutes on my clock here. Are there any questions? How many of you in the room, I have a question, are running mentorship programs with your projects today? There's a couple of you in the room doing that. So I think, and are they CNCF projects or outside of CNCF? I'm outside, I'm from WordPress. Oh, and you've have a really lovely site inside of WordPress recognizing mentors. I've gone over and taken a peek at it. So much like the Linux Foundation has its profile pages with the mentees and the mentorships, the WordPress folks have a very nice way to showcase the people who are working on that. And I think that's one of the key pieces, outcomes here is is there a way, besides listing on your LinkedIn page, that you can as a foundation add value to this stuff so they can get a, it's almost like recognition too. It's very well done over there. So kudos to you over there. Thank you. And there's a stop sign in front of me, but there's a question way back here. So go for it. I'm at UC Santa Cruz. And so we have a couple of different ways that we engage university students with outside projects and also internal research projects. My question, well, I have a few questions. I'll come find you afterwards. But my first question is, so you indicated the data can reveal something like a particular mentor who is having huge impact. And I was wondering if you've done any work yet to investigate the characteristics of a good mentor, like inventories that you're distributing to, like there's some really interesting mentorship inventories that assess how mentees feel respected, engaged, et cetera. Or there's other ideas you have about that. There's actually a lot of literature, academic literature out there. And we've been working, starting to work with the OSU, Oregon State University. And they've done a good extensive listing of all the literature. And I keep getting the stop sign here, but I'm gonna talk to you afterwards. Yeah, I'll come find you. Yes, and there are some, what I'm trying now to do is take those academic findings and see if they actually fall out in the data. And so do the corollary there. So, and there's, I think OSU gave us a list of 18 factors that they had culled from academic papers. And now I wanna apply that to the data to see if that actually shows up in the data. And like the little example we gave of, did they have a decent profile up there? And how did that affect their career opportunities afterwards or their retention in the ecosystem? That was hilarious, cause I had no idea that that would be a flag for that. And it was quite, it's quite fun. And you can go down wormholes, but there are a lot of what we're trying to do is take this information and apply it to the documentation for training mentors and mentees in the documentation for the mentorship program and roll it out to other parts of the Linux foundation and the academic and other foundations as well. So I think folks are coming in for the next talk. Is there time for one more question or are we finished? We are. We are done, thank you all for coming out. We appreciate it. Thank you for coming. Enjoy the rest of your day. All right. Take care.


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