Hi you guys, Lindsay here. Welcome back to my channel, Inside the Hymn. There is another new Big Four collection out today. This time it is the McCalls. What are they calling it? Winter? Winter holiday. So we're going to do some first impressions and go through all the patterns and see what we think. Okay, so it looks like we've got quite a few Wham Bam Thank You Ma'am gowns. So that's exciting. Okay, first up is this Mrs. Dress. It is a lined floor length dress, close fitting bust with darts, interfaced neckline, side front and back seams, blah blah blah. Okay, awesome. It's like that thing, I'm pretty sure that's brocade or jacquard. Looks like a very high neckline, but it kind of comes off the shoulders a little bit. Yeah, princess seams, a little train in the back. This is unlined, unless that's the lining seams, but no, I wouldn't have those. Okay, then without a train and kind of like color blocking. And then here's another, I guess this is the same thing without the little sleeve cap. Here's our girl. Wow, dramatic. It does fit her really well and I'm loving the way this looks. This is just one of those things where this just does not fit my lifestyle. That's okay, though. If you've got a ball or a gala, this is very attractive. I feel like the princess seams in the front and the back, center back zipper, a little dart here. There's some really good shaping. I don't know which of these sleeves I like the best. Probably, probably these here, the ones that they made from the sample. But I don't know, is hers just like super high up on her neck or is that how it's drafted? It's hard to tell what is going on there, but that is very, very high up. And it also looks like really high on her shoulder too. Is this a little bit better? Yeah, I don't know. Maybe some fit issues going on with the neckline, but it's pretty. Okay, check this one out. Wow. Now that is a gown. So we're doing the center front cutout. We've also got some side cutouts and I think there's back cutouts too. So here it is with mesh inserted, so it's not just like skin showing. And then a mini version, that's actually really cute. And then a short like mini length skirt, I guess. Collie, there's just not a lot of fabric here. The sequins are a good choice. Yeah, see a little bit of a back cutout. Well, she looks fantastic. She looks fabulous. I actually really kind of like the little rocker mini version. I don't know why. I don't know where to go in that anymore than I have somewhere to go in the gown, but I still like it. And then here are the line drawing. So there's like no darts or seams really to speak of. I think all the shaping is built into the cutouts, I guess. I don't know. But yeah, there you have it. Pretty basic. I bet it's very easy to sew, which is probably why the sequins were such a good choice. I'm assuming that it is fully lined. We can check out the full details. Close fitting has lined bodice. So, oh yeah, you can see right there that there's no lined skirt. Elasticized waist. Interesting. Really kind of small up in here. Could be a teensy bit. I prefer it be up there, though, than cut way down low. So, yeah, the fit through the bust looks really good for like a front cutout. Even around here can be hard sometimes. But yeah, it looks really good. Okay. Oh, okay. Oh, this is the archive collection. So this is going to be like in your face vintage with the hair and everything. Kind of a lot of shadows. So I can't really see. Wow. Okay. And she's covering it up with her arm there. So I can't see that or that. And now she's sitting down in a gown. Come on, guys. This is an interesting placement for a go day. This is nice. I do like this twisty part. Wow. Okay. So that's all it is, is sunny. No. Go on. Sunny. So you've just got a pretty simple bodice with a waistband and then some seeming here. And then in the back, you've got kind of like a twisty little detail. There's the rest of your waistband and then the seeming with a go day right right in the middle where your your butt crack is. No better way to say it. And then this little shrug thing, which actually the shrug is really cute. I like that concept for a little sheer overlay. This maybe because I don't really dig like vintagey type patterns. There's just a whole lot of unflattering stuff going on here. So that's my two cents on that. Okay. Now we've got another little dress. This looks kind of summery. Oh, it's a jumpsuit. That's cute. I like this. Is this for knits? Close fitting bodice, flounce. Let's see the yardage. Yeah, moderate stretch knits. So sequin knit, velvet knit, interlock jersey. Let's see what else we've got. We've got a sleeveless version and a dress. Okay, this is kind of like the haltery version with the pants. And then I like this. This is very nice, I think. I wonder where the shaping is coming from. Let's see if we can see the back. If not, we'll go to the line drawings. There's the back. Yeah, you can't really see much with the velvet. That's cute with a little draw or with a tie back, keeping that up on your shoulders because that's a lot of fabric to hold up. So it's nice to have the drawstring there. All right, let's look at some line drawings to get a better idea of the seeming. So the part without the sleeve flounce is a halter and it ties in the back. There's no darts back here, which makes me think that this is just all drawn into the side seam. And I guess with a knit, like you can get away with that easier than you can with woven. I don't know, I love this version, though. I think that's really cute. And then here are your jumpsuit versions. These do have an empire seam. This probably has it too, it's just harder to tell maybe with the flounce. I don't know. Interesting. I think this is nice little cape detail. One of the few ones with that flounce that I really thought was very flattering. Sunny, sunny. Okay, this one looks nice already. I'm digging semi fitted with line bodice have body darts, invisible back zipper, hook and eye, blah, blah, blah. Okay. So it does have a waist seam and it looks like some darting going up the bodice and down the skirt. Is this knit? No, this is woven. That's a great fit for a woven love it.  That's really cute. I love that for like an office holiday party. I think that's very appropriate. Here's, I guess she had the same, yeah, here's that like interesting square slash sweetheart neckline combined. Here it is in the line drawing. Cute. And like I've explained before, you guys can always add a, you know, a line or a gathered or pleated skirt to this bodice if you like that bodice shape. There's the back. Very nice. There's a little slit there. I love that they made two versions. Thank you for sewing up two samples. Very cool. So our version's really just very based on the sleeve and the neckline. So you have this batto neckline or this like sweetheart-ish type neckline. That's a really good looking dress. A really good fit. And I bet it's super simple. Okay, we've got a shirt dress with a little, well, this one has a mandarin collar, but other versions have a regular collar. And then this looks to be a little bit asymmetrical. And then it has a ruching down here, which creates all this bunching. So, I mean, kind of a lot going on. Yeah, asymmetrical button front closure, back yoke, forward shoulder seams and sleeve. So pretty traditional shirt dress details. It's just this asymmetrical little thing with this gathering and ruching here. That's cute, I think. I don't know. This, this can, like on her, it almost looks like she's just got her skirt twisted. On this, it looks a little more intentional. That's cute. Yeah, that looks more intentional, I guess. I don't know. You guys know what I mean? It almost looks like she's just got her skirt twisted around. Hmm. Like this looks very purposeful, but I think when she's wearing it, it doesn't necessarily. But yeah, lots of really great shirt dress details here with the forward shoulder, the back yoke, the two-part sleeve. There's a lot of really great qualities about this. I need to try this ruching on a more fitted skirt and see if I like that better than on a knit. Yeah, because this is all woven. I wonder if I would like that more in a woven, maybe like a cotton satin where it has a little bit of stretch to it, too. Okay, now we've got a little swing dress. Oh, cute. I love these little lace-up details. Those are fun. Pretty basic, raglan sleeve, little bust dart shift dress. This one has a fun bubble sleeve, which actually works really well to balance, like you have pear shape like me. This works to balance out the hips. Like when you look at this, this looks wider than this. And so that makes your hips kind of look smaller. Trickery. I want to know what's going on in the back as you guys know. Oh, no fish eye darts bummer. Well, good thing they're not hard to add.  I love this detail. Oh, you know, side pockets in a shift dress too. I'm not a big fan of that because they just like flop around in there. I don't love that. So I'd probably omit those and then you wouldn't have pockets at all. So there you go. I think there could be a lot of really fun fabrics, especially in the fall and winter. Like I feel like this version A, they are like leading you toward some kind of wool blend. See how it's like a window pane plaid. So that could be kind of fun and like more structured of a fabric. Okay, we've got another little jumpsuit here. Beautiful color, especially for fall. Okay, what do we have? A dolman sleeve, a wrap front, but it's very low. Something going on up here with the shoulder too. And then a slim pant. So I'm assuming this un-buttons or unsnaps here and it's open all the way down to the crotch. Oh, some pleats here too. Elasticized waist on this one maybe. Yeah, see there's some pleating going on up here. So kind of like a kimono feel, but cinched in at the waist with some either gathers or pleats or something. That one's really cute. Hidden placket. That's a nice detail. Yeah, you can really see it there in the solids. It's cute. I just don't know how, I don't know how the fitting would be. And also I'm not as slim through here as she is. So I wonder if it would just, well, I guess it would be very hourglass shaped. It would be wider at the shoulders and then comment at the waist and then wider at the hips too. I mean, I haven't done a cigarette pant like even from a store in a very long time. Crepe, charmeuse, suiting, crepe x7. Interesting. It's cute. If you have a slim figure, this is adorable. I think it would look really good. Okay, now we have, is this a coat? Oh, it is. Oh, look at that. That's a like interesting sleeve. So you'd have to do something a little bit lightweight, like a lighter weight wool. You couldn't do melting. I don't think that would just be way too stiff. But that's interesting. I also don't feel like this is something you'd wear over something with long sleeves. Like that's a pretty narrow sleeve. Look at that. That is a fancy coat. There's that version. I guess that's the same. Oh, well, it doesn't have the belt either or a fancy sleeve. So you have a slim, I guess it's a skirt. I don't know. What do you call it on a coat? Or you have the circle skirt. Cute. Oh, I love when they take pictures like out in the wild. Yeah, this is definitely like a tank or a camisole. So there's not a lot going on in the sleeve here. There's just not a lot of room for it. I don't know what's happening there. That's interesting. Okay. What are we thinking about this coat? I think, again, it comes to fabric. They picked a really good one for this. It's got to be a lightweight wool blend, brocade, cotton blend. Yeah, lighter weight, kind of wintery fabric. All right, we've got some asymmetrical and some cutouts. Wow. Is this like the new take on athleisure? I'm kind of confused. Also, is this the fabric? And they just placed it perfectly to make it look like it was coming apart at this seam? That's interesting. Okay, short sleeve. I can't tell. Do this one have the asymmetrical hem? It's hard to tell. Here's another one. Oh, no. So see, this is where the stripe is. This stripe is a completely different fabric that they inset into here. That's cool. That's a good idea. Then you have your sweatpants with the contrasting fabric on the sides. What they did with her was inset this same stripe on the side. I'm assuming this is like a ponte or a sweatshirt place or something. It's actually kind of cute. I guess it depends on like maybe where you live. I can't imagine people in the Midwest rocking this out.  It's definitely interesting. Yeah, I think playing up this contrasting bit is really visually and creatively very inspiring. All right, we've got a top here with like a keyhole neckline, some kind of collar, drop shoulders, elasticized waist. That's cute. I like the bow. Mmm. I don't know. Just not my style. But I do like the tie. I'm just not like a Tucker in kind of girl and I wouldn't want to leave that out. But I also don't love this either. It's just a lot of fabric, I think. I don't know. I guess it could be cute. Maybe in a solid. Maybe it's this floral that's throwing me off. Let me know if you like that one. You guys are free to disagree with me. I hope you know. No judgment. Okay, so this is kind of like a corset. Yeah, with the boning, I'm assuming that's boeing. Um, and then the gathers under the bust. The sleeve is really nice. Yeah, um, boned lower body. Okay. You know, corset style tops are definitely not me, but if they were, this one's really cute. Look how cute that one is. That one's also adorable. There you go. Boned corset top. Yeah, I guess that they're doing the throwbacks to like the Victorian times or I don't know, whatever is in trend lately. That makes sense to add a corseted top. Um, this one is already a favorite without even really looking at it. Right? How cute is that? You know, I love a flounce. They've inset this one with lace. That's cute. It's also cute like that though. Oh, here it is with bands and also an inset. Okay, you can add piping. I think I'm assuming that's flat piping. Oh, and it repeats in the back. That's cute. Yeah, that's an adorable little, little top. I kind of like them all, to be honest. Yeah, that one's really nice. Okay, now we've got, I think this is like an active wear, um, like sweatshirt. It looks like princess seams with some pockets and this like fold-over collar detail. Okay, there's also this little fold-over detail here. Huh. I'm assuming it has the thumb holes too. So I'm assuming this is like for your bike or going to yoga, but it's also cute enough that you could like head to the food store, you know, after your, after your workout. It's like athleisure, I guess it's what it is. That's really cute. I like that. I love the details on it. All the different seams and stuff. Yeah, I think that's really adorable. I'm assuming like double knits and stuff. Athletic knits, micro fleece cotton knits. Athletic knits. What are athletic knits? All right, now we've got a little top or tunic. Nancy Zeeman again with the cool like asymmetrical pocket thing or those just welt pockets. Oh, and there's another seam up here. Okay, I know I'm not a tunic girl and I've talked before about how, if you can't see your crotch, then to me it's not very flattering, but this one's really cute. I do like this one a lot. No seaming back here. Let's check out what's happening here. So you have this inset with the pocket built in. That's just so interesting, right? Oh, and there is seams in the back. So these kind of act like fish eye darts a little bit. You couldn't even tell on the girls. Yeah, there it is right there. Interesting. There is still a little bit of fabric pulling, so maybe they didn't take as much out as they could have, but this is so cool. And it has bust darts and these little darts. Interesting. That looks like it would just be fun to sew. Moderate stretch knits, ponte interlock cotton. Cute. Okay, and we've got some mom and me pajamas.  Costumes, dog clothes, costumes. All right. Well, there you have it. What do we think of the new McCall's collection? Just kidding. Not the end. As I was shutting down, I saw this lookbook and I flipped through real quick and realized that there were a couple of patterns that weren't in the main catalog, which is really strange. I guess the website just didn't categorize them correctly. I don't know. But I pulled them out and here they are, which actually I'm glad I found them. This one's really, really cute. So this is a jacket and pant pattern. And you have this like oversized blazer and then these pleated kind of like coolots. And I imagine they have different lengths. So you've got your pant version here and then a much longer coat as well, which by the way, a mid thigh blazer is adorable. There she is all buttoned up. But I mean, who would really wear it that way? Not me. But this like kind of slouchy, like 80s vibe suit. I think it's really adorable. And then look at all of this width that you get in the pant leg tapered to smaller width at the ankle curved waistband, obviously. And there she is with her long coat. I don't know. The proportions could be a little bit funny depending on how you wear it. I think they might have buttoned these up for this. So it's giving you like a little too close fitting at the hip. But wow, those look good. Many little wedgy issue, but I think like opened up and real casual with the, you know, half open buttoned down top or just like the knit stripe top. I think it's really cute. I think it's a really fun way to think about work wear for sure. Okay, another one I found was this jacket and belt, which is just very elegant, very ladylike. I love the deep V of the jacket that it doesn't have any like thing covering you here. So you really do layer it. And here in the south, you know, we're just really about light layers mostly. So this is a really good option. And then she paired it with some leather leggings, which are awesome. You do have this lapel option, but again, it's very open collar. Oh, and then some fur. That's cute. And then this, which kind of just looks like a dress if I'm being honest, but I bet it doesn't like actually close. So I think that's a nice jacket. Let's see. So one large snap.  But some different options there. Fabric wise, they're suggesting knits. I didn't even consider this to be a sweater knit. That makes me like it even more sweater knits interlock velvet knits novelty knits and then contrast faux fur. Huh, how much stretch that Wow, that's a lot of stretch. So it's almost like a coat again. I mean, it is like literally a coat again. I kind of love it even more. I love the shape of this sleeve. This is an awesome jacket. I like that a lot. Okay, and then we have this one, which is super fun. I'm pretty sure this is Sherpa and then this is some kind of like metallic, maybe a mini sequin or something, but they're doing the color blocking. And then you also just have a cropped version, which is lined with fur. I mean, that's got to be super warm. Oh, it says unlined. Well, how are they getting it back there? Then is that just a facing? I guess. Reverse side of fabric will show as contrast. So these are actual leathers and suede and you use the fur side as the inside. Interesting. Or like a double knit, like where in the world do they find a fabric that had this is the wrong side? Huh, I love the cropped like I love the crop a lot. But this looks like a sweatshirt fleece or something. Cute, cute outfit all around. Interesting. So yeah, you would really have to work hard to find some double faced fabrics. But once you did, you could come up with a really cute combo. Interesting. I love this little cropped one so much. Even this with the contrast sleeve is really cute. I don't know about those patch pockets, but adorable. But yeah, you would really need to find a fabric that had awesome insides and outsides. Okay, so that is officially it. There are no more patterns in the look book that I didn't already cover. I did want to point out though that this pajama set was really cute with this little piping detail. I kind of skipped over it because it was like a mommy and me. But that's a really sweet little pajama. Okay, you guys, I swear this is the last one. These are all hidden. I was looking through the look book again and realized that these have different pattern numbers. So they are different. The mommy and me pajamas is different than these pajamas. So we're going to look at these because it is a woman's pattern. Okay, so as I was saying a second ago, it is really cute with all the little piping details and stuff. This one is kind of like a robe with pants, which I think is interesting. You couldn't wear the robe without the pants though. So that to me is a little bit fussy. But here is the elongated version. I love how they're getting this flair and like all this drape. I'm not exactly sure how that's happening. I don't know if there's, oh, because there's a seam line. So it's like an actual coat pattern, but meant to be worn as a bathrobe. I think that that is adorable. Again, I love the flat piping. They even included on the inside, which is a really nice detail. And then here's a really long version. That's beautiful. Here are your pants. So cute little angled pockets, ribbon, tie, flat trim again on the cuff. And then here she is. This fabric, I'm 99% sure, came from Joanne. I was just there and I feel like it was some kind of crepe, which doesn't make sense for pajamas, but it was like a knit crepe, I guess. But you know how sometimes Joanne's does this a single print in many different fabrics? Maybe that's what's happening here. And I just didn't see this one in the other knits, but maybe it's the crepe. I don't know. Seemed like it'd be a little itchy to me, but maybe not. And she has like real shoes on. So I don't know if they're trying to tell you that you can wear this out with your earrings. You know, you see people wearing pajamas out on the streets. I'm not sure if that's what's going on here, but it is really cute. And I guess if you're gonna wear pajamas on the street, this is the best way I've seen to do it so far. But mostly, I'm obsessed with this. I just love that it has like an actual waist seam and all the piping. They didn't leave the piping off of anything, which is great. Don't know what this is. It looks like the drawing got messed up. This is supposed to be on this line here. Whoopsies. But yeah, super cool. So I wonder how this is being closed. Let's see if there's a button or a snap or what. Spice tape piping, ribbon piping. It doesn't say. It doesn't say how that is being closed. So that means it could be, well, it has to close somehow. Maybe not. Maybe it's just the belt. Maybe there's like some interior ties or something. I don't know. Hard to tell. Length and construction variations featuring options for quilting and purchase piping, purchase bias tape, semi-fitted ankle length pants, drawstring slash pockets, piping trim. Yeah, I don't know. Anyways, cute little pajamas, cute little robe. Okay, officially, officially. This is definitely it. Wow. Thanks for keeping up with me on this one. So sorry. But I am honestly looking at these patterns for the first time. So sometimes I miss some. And then sometimes they're just not in the collection. So if you're going to shop these, make sure you head to the Lookbook. The Lookbook has all of them there. If you just go to like new sewing patterns and click here, they are missing a few. So that's how that's how that happened. There are definitely some ones that stand out to me. I think this one is going to fit beautifully. This one has adorable little details. I also think this is very interesting and could possibly make it into my stash. And then once we got to the end here, like all these casual tops, I really like a lot too. So let me know in the comments below which one was your favorite. Be sure to reference some detail, like for this one, say, you know, the black and gold gown instead of the item number, because I just will never remember all the pattern numbers. But let me know which ones you like. Let me know if any of these will make it into your stash in the next couple of months. And until next time, I will see you all very soon. Bye!


To the girls side, Deer River battling it out with Sherry and the Tigers brought it first half. Kailin Kutis finds Lauren Staples for the easy lane and the lead, but the Warriors answer. Kiana Johnson with the rebound and the put back to cut into the deficit. Then more Deer River just before the half. Natalie Bakadal, count it and the foul. However, Sherry would come back in the second half. They would win this one 67 to 65. If you've enjoyed this segment of Lakeland news, please consider making a tax deductible contribution to Lakeland Public Television.


Was it a difficult decision to not let him go back out there on the floor, you know Once once the third became a really a really tough one for him, too I just felt like We had to get him out of there at that point with with the pitches racking up like they were through three innings And felt like you know, we were still in a spot to where we could kind of piece it together with you know any inning inning with it with everyone through our high leverage guys, but you know, we just Struggled obviously in that fourth inning holder who's who's usually doesn't walk guys loses the leadoff guy and then it just got away from us there and You know, unfortunately, we just couldn't stop the bleeding there in that fourth inning things really unraveled quickly for holder I believe he faced seven batters gave up six runs prior to you going out and get him. Did you consider getting him sooner? Maybe a batter prior We're kicking around but then you know, then you start facing them a more up against the situation, you know It really didn't really want to use sessa tonight, but obviously that became a need so There may be a batter before we're starting to consider it but but we we had to give greenie time to get ready as well So, you know, just a real difficult inning That's what we're starting to have those conversations now and in earnest and you know, we'll start Considering all our options, but you know, obviously now it won't be won't be sessa pitch in Saturday So we'll just have to see how it all lines up and those are the conversations. We'll have right now Our staff right now No, I don't think I don't think that's an option right now Good job, I hold her there actually of getting that Seeing freeze he recognized the runner and then just got it to miggy and miggy was a little delayed and getting rid of the Ball to home play he's got to get it out of his hands at that point And then he either start the rundown or you have a play So I think a little maybe a little indecision there on the he's part But you know, I thought actually holder was a good job of fielding it and and holding the runner Do you need to throw in front of the runner though in that situation? To to home I Mean he definitely could have but I felt like when he turned and looked at him and froze them enough He was still on towards the third base side So I had no problem with him going to third right there now You can You can grab it run at him and really freeze them which would have been the perfect play But you know, we just didn't execute and unfortunately we did in a couple times and I feel like that play in particular Kind of stuck with him that he wasn't able to settle in there after that affect him at all on the mound Or was just not having his stuff I don't think it did and I think I think you know what Jonathan that's one of the traits he's had He's pretty good at just competing and pitching and usually command the strike zone and I don't think that Factored in I just think he wasn't executing tonight Could you see any relation between the two plays there or was it just no that's just where when he comes set He's one of those guys that's blind to what he's seeing so he's listening loud building just that much too late react and You know the good thing is he didn't panic, you know a lot of times you get people yelling at you and it's a box situation He stepped off, but it was just too late So that you know, you've got it when you're not a picture that has the runner in your sights at all time You've got it. You've got to be checking for that kind of scenario It was a good job of varying his hold and you know because they are aggressive and looking to obviously Take the base especially when they get a lead But you get we got to do a better job of being aware when something like that happens What do you have when you have two plays like that and CC ballooning up, you know the ball and then yesterday Glaver keep being late to that. I mean are those I don't know. How does that? Yeah, I mean it's frustrating, you know, it's it's frustrating, you know, we got we have to do a better job Play a cleaner brand of baseball, especially when when things are hard And you're up against a real good opponent, you know, we've got it. We've got to play clean That's that also those kind of things happen I mean the ball to CC is a bullet that he goes up and picks kind of a wet ball. That's kind of a You know, that's that's gonna happen. That's baseball. That's one of those plays. So But yeah, I mean right now when it's difficult and you know, not everything's going our way We got it, you know be airtight in the in the things we do to kind of minimize Minimize damage on the other side based on the way things have unraveled the last two days Do you feel like you need to talk to this team? I talk to this team all the time. So that nothing will change there Well We'll continue to compete like we did yesterday When we didn't do a couple things well, we fought our way back They the guys competed all all the way tonight So I have zero issue with the mindset of our guys and no one that will be focused and ready to go and in the communication With with our guys is happening all the time Yeah I Took gray out of your rotation half to the DL short starts Are you concerned about this thing unraveling this weekend against as good an offensive team as this is especially in their park? No, we got savvy going tomorrow can't wait to hand him the ball and look to get him rolling You know We're we're rested for the most part at the back end We just need to go out and have a have an outing where we get deep into the game and and all of a sudden change the narrative, you know This is it's a long arduous season You know, you're gonna hit these little bumps in the road where it's difficult where you know You know you have you have where you're Trying to preserve pitching a little bit where you're up against it a little bit in a lot of days in a row But you know We give the ball to one of the best in the game tomorrow and seven he goes out and does his thing We're right back reset and good to go


Hello and Merry Christmas. I wanted to give all my viewers out there a link to a coupon code Go ahead and check out the link in the description of this video or hopefully I'll remember to put it up on the screen here I'll bring you to a coupon code. It'll be good till the end of this year That will give you a discount on a course. I have over at You to me that is on 2d game design. I put it up a few months ago, and if you're interested we go from scratch to making a full 2d space game and Thought some of you might be interested in that and so go ahead and check out that coupon code for that course It's only a couple of dollars with the coupon, and it'll be good through the end of the year So go ahead and get that signed up as soon as you can. I hope that you all have a merry Christmas Thanks for watching as always. I hope that you have a great day


with the HackFest planning. All right. I can give a quick, quick update there. I'm really happy to see the response on that. We are just about at capacity for the HackFest. If you have not registered, please do so as soon as possible. We're closing registration today. I've just dropped the link for registration in there. Lastly, here is the draft agenda. Quite a few topics have been dropped in there. Anything else you want to see happen or potentially present, please get that slotted in on the first day of the HackFest. We will get that all mapped out. And then the other thing, we're still looking at March tentatively to do a HackFest in tandem with the Hackathon that's happening in Shanghai, as well as May in New York. If you have space for either of those timeframes or cities, please get in touch with me as soon as possible. And then the next item, just a quick update. I know Rai has been working with LFIT. It looks like we should have Rocket Chat up to kick the tires by the time of the HackFest next week. Okay. Any questions for Todd? And we have the link to the agenda and again to the registration. So if you haven't registered and you're putting in coming, please do so. And then just one note on the agenda. I, you know, we tend to sort of have these things be more of an unconference than anything else. And we'll discuss whatever topics seem to be pertinent and relevant and whoever wants to have some time that's typically granted it. But I'd like to make sure that one of the things that we try to accomplish in San Francisco next week is some actual, you know, hacking, if you will, you know.  If, you know, one of the other platforms, if you're, you know, working on fabric, maybe you can take a spin on a Roja or Sawtooth or what have you just to get a sense of what that is.  So just keep that in mind as we're starting to think about the agenda. Yeah, I think that's a great sentiment, Chris, and I'll kind of put myself on the spot that if I leave the hack fest without having gotten a chance to dabble in some fabric code, then I will not have satisfied my objectives in showing up. Yeah, yeah, I think I feel the same way. Thanks, Dan. All right. So I guess with that, the working group charters are up next, and I think the only one we have, is that right, is the updated identity draft, is that right? Yeah, correct. All right, Vip and you're up, and if somebody could post the link in the chat, that would be helpful. Yeah, unfortunately, I'm inside the firewall, but I can now look at the charter using another private device. So if anybody has the link, please post it. I see somebody has posted it, right? Yeah, Todd posted it. Yeah. Anyway, so we had quite a healthy discussion yesterday. The main point was, this is a charter, not the actual document. So I had expanded on the identity definition, and done some of that work there, but it started devolving into a discussion of maybe a 100,000 year old problem, which is what is the self, and all kinds of stuff like that.  Instead, we decided to just have a very bare bones definition in the first paragraph, and then the second paragraph of the introduction is the purpose of the identity working group is to discuss, research, and document ways to capture, store, and transmit, and use identities. And then the scope is limited to the life cycle events and use of identity needed to securely participate in the various Hyperledger project DLT implementations. The group talking about DLT, Thomas Ackerman has suggested that it should be expanded in the first paragraph, and that will be done right now. And then use DLT throughout. I don't know what the group feels about it. I did use the word blockchain once, but most of the, once or twice, but most of the other uses are DLT. That is one area which could use some clarification. The scope, right, and then the work products. Mostly it is going to be a document with a more comprehensive definition of identity. And then it will also include a description of an interface for a standalone identity component. So to go back to the scope, it'll focus only on the functional, rather than the design or implementation. Details of identity component. I call it the identity component because that is a central direction which the architecture working group and more and more people are on this TSC itself are driving towards. The next part of the work product is a suggestion which opens with the words, this could include a document which opens with the words, this could include, you know, and then the list. Really speaking, the more detail you have on the charter, the, you know, it attracts, you know, more and more debate which could be more appropriate in the actual work product document. Then it also talks about advice and learn from the architects and designers of identity solutions being constructed under the Hyperledge umbrella. In addition, the group will consult or advise the implementers of identity solutions who wish to join the Hyperledge project. This was brought up by Brian as a possible, you know, activity of the identity working group to talk to the people who are interested in putting forth solutions. The next part is the collaborators. Dan had a comment there that, is there any formal requirement that the people in this group should sit in, you know, any of the groups mentioned below? There is no such thing, it is completely informal but we will basically take the best practices or the debates that are under, you know, in many of these organizations, actually there are methodologies and actual verifiable use cases for claims use cases, for example, or the ID 2020 or the, you know, language like SAML 2.0, we will take that as input into our thoughts to produce this document. And the process, of course, is open and whenever possible, all the decisions should be made by the consensus of the attending parties and when the decision is significant, it will be transmitted more broadly to get wider consensus. Sorry about that. Meeting minutes, the transparency portion, which is similar to what the architecture working group said. Amendments and disbanding, all of these are very similar to what is there in the other working group documents and my thanks to Jonathan Levy and to Hart for helping me converge on this particular version of the document. So like I said, the only other change that will be made is the suggestion by Thomas Ackerman, the first paragraph saying that, you know, expanding distributed ledger technologies to include and then shortening in test DLT. The other, you know, the only other question is the use of the word blockchain versus DLT. Arno's comments from last week, I believe have been answered by removing most of the definition of identity that was here before. You know, we don't go into the details of self sovereignty and, you know, all those issues that we will tackle in the actual work group document. So this is what I have for your consideration and waiting for your comments. Thanks, Fippen. Just a couple of thoughts. I mean, I think generally this is fine. The thing that I'm struggling a little bit with is the work products aspect of it. And I'd like to understand, you know, and again, I'd like to have others weigh in as well, but I'd like to understand what we think we're going to do with that. In other words, are we, you know, are we putting together a document and then saying here's this thing and you can implement it if you like? Are we going to be building something? Again, this is an open source projects or a set of, you know, open source projects. Are we going to be building something? And, you know, in the sort of, in the words, you know, the infamous words that we have with ITF and with Apache of loose consensus and running code. Are we going to implement something that can potentially be integrated that demonstrates its utility and value overall? I'm curious to hear what others think. You know, if we have this sort of abstraction as a document, I think it would be, you know, from my perspective, I'd like to understand, well, what are we going to do with that, right? Is this something that the other projects need or want? Is it something that, you know, conflicts with what they're doing? And I'd like to get a better sense of how we think this fits in overall. Yeah, I'm all ears. You know, in keeping with what has been done in the architecture or any other working group, it is always about some kind of a functional description rather than an implementation. It doesn't prevent us from going ahead and doing a reference implementation, but that is a separate topic, and it is not for, I don't think it is for a working group like this, because even to get agreement around a document, we are having such problems, you think implementation is going to be easy? It's not, implementation has to be naturally focused work by a small group who agree. So, and plus, it doesn't seem to be the ethos of any other working group to have implementation.  I mean, I'm eager to hear your views. So, just one of the, as you point out that we have taken a very prescriptive view of the working groups, and I think one of the, you know, you're right if we start from scratch and try to build an identity system, it's likely to be, you know, a multi-headed hydra that comes out of it, and I think the alternative is to go back and start with something that exists, and identify a path to evolve what exists into something that's sufficiently general. That would allow you to do something that's more focused on constructive, rather than something that's prescriptive this way. And this is a common issue across all the working groups, I think, right? Yeah. So you're saying that take one of the existing implementations and extract, let's say, the functional requirements from that and then see, I mean, sorry, maybe my mind was wondering, what is the core of your point? I mean... I'm just saying that our current approach to the working groups has been very prescriptive. That is, we go off and we design, you know, sort of the ideal, a description of the ideal system. And as Chris points out, that tends to be very paper-driven as opposed to implementation-driven. An alternative approach would be to say, hey, let's take a candidate system and let's adopt that as our core project and describe a very practical set of steps to evolve that into a general facility. Yeah, I like that. I mean, it turns things from a prescriptive into a very constructive decision or discreet operation. I'm not suggesting that we do that for this particular working group, but I am suggesting that as we think about how we can set up working groups going forward, we might wanna consider whether we intend them to be prescriptive or discreetive or constructive. Considering that no other working group is, you know, is contemplating an implementation, why... That's not really quite true, Vipin. I mean, we have... I mean, it may be particular to the fabric that it's, you know, we have the fabric SDK group that produces specification that is then being implemented in three or four different languages. All right, so, not exactly the same, still, you know... I mean, but there is a quite a distance from an abstract concept like identity and an SDK, which is by very definition, SDK implies some kind of a... Right, but I mean, when you're... Right, I understand. I guess what I'm trying to do, though, here, is just sort of help to sort of help focus the group on... So, you know, working on things that can have a concrete...  You know, in fact, that was one of my... One of my beefs with all of the working groups that I was a member of. Yeah.  I mean, but... And the questions have not been answered. Obviously, you know, we can talk for weeks about the self, but it doesn't bring us closer to an implementation of an identity component. So, I'm all for it. If that is the way the direction the group has to go, then we need solid participation from some people who can actually deliver on these things, not just meet twice a week and talk about this stuff. So, one of the things that I think has helped with, you know, just with the white paper in particular is to come back and say, you know, we have a work product, and that working group is finished when that work product is done. Would it be appropriate to, you know, given the set of deliverables that you have here, would it be appropriate to say, would it, for us to charter you to deliver as your first deliverable, with, say, I'm just gonna pull a number out of the year, a six-month time frame, to come up with an identity kind of requirements usage API document. And then, at that point, transition the identity working group into a constructive group, which goes about that second group would become something with a charter of evolve an existing system to match the description that we put together or something to that effect. And again, I'm just- Or we can, what if we can charter? I like the charter, right? In the sense that it's consistent with what other working groups are doing. I just think you have an opportunity because you have a constrained, well-defined problem here. Well, I think that's the point. But it's not as well-defined as identity. Sorry, I have a great story. I'll tell you at the hack fast about a conversation about identity in an IT.  I mean, which I think is a very great step because so far we've been in the identity working group, we have been just talking about stuff in a very general way. And the first step towards implementation is indeed talking about an API. So I agree with you, make that, we put that in the charter, we leave the charter as it is, then once the product is delivered, then we talk about changing the charter because there's scope to change the charter and which would involve resources. I don't know who are gonna be the, people who are gonna implement the identity solution for the Hyperledge umbrella, but... Well, sir, I mean, that's dipping. That's kind of why I liked what Nick was sort of suggesting is let's take a look at something that one of the projects has and what would it take to make that more generally useful and still deliver and implement the capabilities that the identity working group believes are necessary in order to leverage an identity component in a DLT type of context. And I think if we could take a look at that, then I think that you potentially have a natural sort of catcher's mitt for the actual implementation aspects of finance. And you also have people that have a stake in how that's being used and so forth that will also help to sort of grounded in a little bit of reality. Again, I don't think we necessarily wanna go off and create something that's going to be ultimately useful, but that utility has an ability to sort of help focus people on what's really important. But again, if we can start thinking about doing something like that, then if we talked about at the last hack fest, we talked about, so Korda and Richard's not on obviously, but I mean, we talked about the fact that Korda did not yet have a, whatever you wanna call it, an identity membership services component.  And so what would it be, could we potentially have the fabric CA component serve as the identity service for something like Korda in addition to fabric? And the answer was, well, we could, you know. Obviously, you know. Yeah, I mean, to your point, Chris. There's a certain amount of massaging to make it more generally useful, but you know, I think that to me has more constructive and concrete value to the community. I mean, to your point, right? The December meetings that I led in the identity working group, I invited Ben to do exactly this, which is to present the CA, I mean the fabric CA to the group and then use that as a basis for an interface conversation, which would then feed back into the CA part. I mean, which is what you're talking about here. But at that point he did not have a, you know, he did not have the, first of all, he did not have the time. Second, it was, you know, CA was still fluid. So all of these configurations is what led us down this path and in this particular charter, try to follow what was in the other documents. I wasn't opposed to having an implementation. I thought that this would be the first step to create a interface that goes, you know, starts off with something like the Fabric CA or, you know, the Sawtooth Lakes membership services. And then try to find the commonalities and then try to say, okay, now what else could we have in this? What about interactions with existing identity systems? What about, you know, those kind of things? And then push the edges a little bit and then try to get an interface and then as Thomas is again suggesting, you know, we could start building something, but I didn't want to introduce that into this particular charter.  I'll go ahead and do it. It's very well within my, you know, my aims as well, because I'm coming from a practical place all the time.    Yeah, so, Vipin, I actually like how you structured the scope of it. Like you pointed out, the other working groups haven't been generating, let's say, binary artifacts. So I think what might be more consistent is if a project is kicked off at the conclusion of a synthetic specification coming out of this work group that might be more consistent with what we've done before. And maybe to kind of incorporate some of the feedback I'm hearing here, it makes a minor amendments to this work group charter saying that the inputs to the API specification that you already have called out there, that the inputs to that are the identity services that are already designed or implemented for the existing hyperledger projects and that the intent is to look for some subset or superset of that functionality to call out for a standalone identity component. And that should be, that feels to me like a constrained enough goal and also a good precursor so that, you know, you never want to sit down and just start trying to write something without a detailed set of requirements or some kind of specification to guide that work. Yeah, so does this mean that we defer the vote on this for this week, make these changes and come back with it next week? Is that what it means? Yeah, I think that would be a good thing. And then maybe even next week we can have some concrete discussion at the hack fast on this particular topic. But yeah, I mean, again, like I said in my comments, I think that generally this is fine, but I'd like to see if we can't just sort of get it to be, and again, it's not just this group, I want to make that clear. I think all of them should sort of be, as we've done with the white paper working group, make it much more practically, deliver practical value and again, this is also part of, here we are just about to enter into the second year and I'm looking to see what can we do to start getting the various projects to be a little bit more collaborative. And therefore, if we're working on a working group that's coming up with an architecture and identity interface, let's think about, okay, so we're doing that because we actually want to have a common interface for identity and that's going to be shared across the projects. And then that means we should have this sort of close tie and collaboration between those who have the insights and so forth with those that are potentially implementing these things in the various projects that we have in incubation. So that's really where I'm trying to do with this. Well, I also, I think, yeah, go ahead, Ram. Ram here, I just wanted to kind of say that's a wonderful direction to go. I mean, the ultimate game of, for instance, what we're doing in the architecture work group is to kind of evolve the implementations to kind of towards the ideal architecture that we're developing so that it's modular components that can be reused across projects. I very much like the direction that, you know, we are kind of converging on how do we, and so I think it serves two purposes. Of course, you know, it is trying to evolve the group in the direction of this. And then also, so far, I think the amount of cross-project community development has been somewhat limited, it's been kind of siloed. So the more we use these kind of forums to put together common approaches across and collaborative efforts across the projects, I think, would be wonderful. So I like the direction, we just have to figure out how to get a resource, and you know, rather than wait for the end of the thing, I think probably it would be a good topic to explore in the face-to-face to see how we can practically start moving from just documenting the ideal kind of competence to how do we work on common competence, which ones we choose and how we move forward. Yep, I think identity is a great one to start with. I thought we had a project proposal come up for the fabric identity component, and one of the things that we discussed was, you know, can that be generalized? And I think, you know, we just need to figure out how to go about getting that started. So I think that would be a great thing to explore. Yep, I love it. Somebody else is coming, and I think... Jonathan, Liva's comments are very opposite. So is the conversation that they are having between Jonathan and Mick on the chat. So all that will be taken into account when I... I mean, the charter will not, you know, talk about the chain of trust and so on, but it'll basically lay out what we just discussed that the interface will be a jumping-off point towards constructing some kind of an implementation. That's the change I'll make, unless... And I'll put it up, so please read it and comment not minutes before the meeting, you know, which kind of makes it useless, right? I'm guilty of that, but I was at a hotel, really. You would be crappy on the outside, so I was... No, I'm not talking about you.  So because if a document is tough, implementation is tougher, especially if it is a loose confederation of interested parties, you know. I mean, Chris, you know that, you know, if you have all your guys working on Fabric CA, they'll work on it because that's their full-time job. So to create an identity implementation from an identity working group is going to be a pretty challenging thing. Gentlemen, this has led a time on, everyone. Yeah, I mean, from an architectural perspective, there is the concept of starting from what's called a foundational framework. Now, a framework, as the word suggests, is constructs designed by the architecture-related that binds something together in terms of standards, expectations, requirements, call requirements, or prime requirements, so that you can take that and build from it. So the concept is going from what's called a foundational architecture to eventually end up as a solution framework which can be implemented. There's something, that's the way we headed because when we talk about a solution framework, really that's the domain of APIs and anything that's constructed and to be implemented. So we are moving in the right direction, I'd like to say. However, from the charter perspective, it's a charter, and the charter could become a project charter in terms that we are going to do something. Once you've decided what that foundational framework is and undertake in ourselves to produce a solution whether it's an API for identity management. I like that. And I think we all agree that's a positive change in terms of putting something out there that's very concrete based on any foundational frameworks that we've identified and we can discuss in the charter which could eventually be implemented as a solution framework and API as a component of an overall solution. So that's a very good direction. However, coming back to the charter, I think we should maybe not change it too much, but it's different as you've said, putting some other key elements so we can ensure it's a charter, almost like a project charter which could lead to some form of implementation whether it's a standard API based on the standard framework for identity. So I like everything that's being said. I just don't want us to spin our wheels too much around the charter, but make it in such a way that it could lead from a foundational framework of what identity management should really be and as we work closely with one or two of the other project team, you see we're already talking project because all these other projects, charter, et cetera, they're actually there to implement something and work closely with them to identify what that solution framework will be for identity management. I wanted to say, but I think we're heading the right direction. Any other questions? Yeah, I think so. Okay. Thanks, Zipin. Thanks a lot and thanks everyone for the good discussion. Okay. So the other working groups still need to come forward with their draft charters. So hint, hint. Much nudge, wink, wink. You're reminded. Yeah, Chris, could I make a comment on the protocol working group? Sure. So I chatted with a number of members. We have not had a meeting, working group meeting since I think it's October last year and the reason because of the, you know, the changes or the rabbit fluctuation of the projects that we have and the intent of the working group there is to document a common set of protocols, very much wiring stuff, for example, like, you know, to put together a transaction. What does that mean? What's the structure looks like so that, you know, maybe we put together one data structure and agree that from Saltwood Lake you can send a transaction and the same structure may be used for fabric and may be used for Iroha and so on and so forth. But I think, you know, the consensus from the group is that at this point things are still changing quite rapidly that I don't think we at the point that we can get together and document that and come to a, come to a conclusion on that. So we want to take a break there until perhaps having more project graduate and then revisit this work, this effort. Okay. That seems reasonable to me. Again, we don't have to force things that, you know, I don't want to have a working group that doesn't really think it needs to exist yet. So I think that's fine. Okay. Thanks, Ben. So, Hart, are you there? Yes, he's on. Are you on mute? Hey, Chris. Can you hear me? There you go. Yes, we can hear you now. So I think it's time to have a vote on the White Paper Working Groups outline. And so hopefully people have had a chance to do their reviews and are ready to take a position. But maybe if we could get a link in the chat, I think that would be helpful. And I don't know, Hart, do you want to just sort of remind people where we are? Do we have quorum to vote today? Yeah, we do. Well, we had, Todd. I think we're still a quorum, right? Yes, we are. Oh, perfect. Yeah, so just to refresh her, we wrote up what we're calling a skeleton of the White Paper that includes sort of, it's essentially an outline of what we want to cover so that when we do begin the White Paper, we don't have to redo a lot of work and we can kind of coalesce on what we think the White Paper should be. The document has been out for a while and I hope everyone has had time to look at it. I think the only thing that is still controversial is our discussion very recently about standards. But if anyone else has any other comments or anyone else in the working group has any other comments, please feel free to say anything. Hey, this is fine. Just to head off too much discussion, if we do end up in a couple of points like standards that could take a while to resolve, we kind of look at this in order if this was in the scope document, probably not, that the context for this White Paper is more or less immediate and that the expectation is that we would evolve the content like other ones, maybe create new drafts. So if, for example, our position was no standards today, that doesn't mean no standards come second half of the year or next year or what have you. Yeah, Dan, that was kind of my position on this. Obviously, if we do have something to say about standards, we should include it, but as far as I could tell, there was no consensus and anything we wrote was likely to be very controversial, so I figured we would just leave it out until we could get consensus on it. Hey, this is Brian, I'm not sure if you can hear me. I just dropped a note to the TSC working group mailing us proposing some language around standards, very short, simply says, standards may be defined elsewhere, they can be brought in, as long as they don't create any IP encumblance, and ad hoc interfaces may emerge out of our work at Hyperledger, in which case developers are free to promote that to the relevant standards body, so long as, with or without support from the TSC. Basically, trying to put an arm's length between us and standards bodies, but saying there is a relationship, it's potential, just don't confuse us as being a standards body. I don't know if that goes too far or not, but I just thought for some basic language there that might be helpful. And if I could say, let me tell you again, that we live in an age where everything is living, all our documents and living documents, they wouldn't remain on the shelf once we've written the charter or even the white paper, it's going to change, as someone just said, in a few months, more things are being discovered, standards are better defined, these standards come out, so they have to all be living documents. That's really the key to success in the age we live in. So yeah, with regards to the white paper game, I had to look at if it's a good outline, if we can improve it on this meeting, fine. So yeah, we can move on here. Apologies. Brian, I think that looks great. If other people are okay with something like that going in the document, in some shape or form, then I'm completely okay with that. Are other people generally okay with that? Yes. So I think what we should probably do just to make it quick is just to say, does anybody disagree with the current outline, speak now if we're able to hold the peace? All right, Todd, I think we have a rather hard, rather I think we have an answer. So I think the outline is good to go. And thanks for your and all the members of the White Paper working group separate on that. Great, we'll start writing. Thank you very much, everyone. Okay, great. So next up, I just wanted to sort of tee up a discussion for the next few minutes. We only have about 10 minutes left. But on openness and transparency of the various projects, this week there was a little bit of a, I'll just sort of characterize it as a little bit of a flare-up where on the fabric project, there had been sort of an ad hoc meeting of some of the IBM team members in Raleigh. And this was, again, it was an unplanned kind of a thing. And then somebody took notes and posted them onto Slack. And then there was apparently a sense that somebody was saying, oh, well, that should have been, and it was posted to the mailing list as well. And then there was some discussion about, oh, well, we should have been invited to call and so forth. I agree, by the way. But I think just more generally, when you're working in open source, there's a tendency, especially when you start from a project that starts with one company or one entity, there tends to be sort of a bit of inertia that the team that was working together on building something continues to do that and to operate in that particular mode. And when they're co-located, it makes it even more challenging because it's just so simple to just sort of gather in the open space or whatever and get a whiteboard in front of you and start mapping out and discussing things. And forgetting about the fact that, oh, but we also have these other people that are working very closely with them, contributing a lot of really good stuff, but they're not in the room here, right? And I think that, and Brian has sort of made this point and I'm hoping that Brian can weigh in and help with some of this discussion. But I think it's really important that we start thinking more and more, and again, this is also, again, cross-projects, I think is also going to be a good thing, not just within, but certainly within any given project, that we try and do a better job, sort of as our New Year's Resolution, so to speak, of let's make sure that the conversations are happening in a forum where everybody can contribute and participate, where nobody is being unnecessarily or even inadvertently excluded. And that can mean, and I know you had some experience with this and others maybe can chime in as well, but when you work in open source, sometimes you just sort of have to force yourself to have the discussion in email or on Slack, as opposed to the person who's literally sitting right next to you, just so that if somebody is sitting 3,000 or 6,000 miles away, that they can be involved as well. So I'll just sort of put that out there and invite others to sort of weigh in on that. But I think the more that we can all collectively do to think about, you know, as we're engaging in, you know, whether it's thinking about new capabilities or wanting to go through and do a refactor of, you know, making sure that we're doing all we can to sort of be fully inclusive of everybody in the community. Crystal, I could follow up real quickly with that. I get that a lot of modern software development culture is around the stand-up, whether it's the daily stand-up or whether it's the really tight-knit collaboration that happens when developers are pair programming or sitting next to each other in some way. And that is one reason why I'm an advocate for having our hack-fests and, you know, in these weekly kind of conference calls at the TSE level. I don't want to lecture. What I want to come across is, you know, kind of a manny on this topic. What I'd like to try to do is find ways for us to discover the value of having some of these conversations in a forum, you know, at the very least like Slack, but hopefully in a forum like email, specifically because some of these are technical, some of them are difficult conversations to have, and email gives us a forum that may be better for a lot of people, whether it's because of the language barrier, whether it's because of the time barrier, or simply because in an email you can explore some of these topics in more depth. And that's really the best way for us to turn what is right now, at least in fabric in the heads of a small number of people, into a much broader co-development, you know, constituency. So maybe that's something we talk more about at the hack-fest, and there's not a lot of time for here. Almost ironically, maybe we should talk more about this over email. Well, I don't think that's a good priority. I think there's some real value in that. I just want to leave it with, you know, I know my email in that thread came across perhaps is very chiding and moralistic, and I apologize for that if that came across poorly, not qualifying it if it came across poorly. I'm sorry for that tone. And so let's talk about it further at the hack-fest and over email. No, I agree. And I do want to sort of, again, I don't want to come across as sounding chiding either, because, I mean, I think the intention was very good. We need to share this, right? You know, we can't just be having this private conversation and it goes nowhere. You know, it's a tree falling in the woods kind of effect. And so that was a good thing. It would just be better if we could have actually had that discussion and all of that in more of a real time or even an asynchronous kind of a mode. Yes, it doesn't move quite as quickly, but yet, again, we have to be cognizant of the fact that we are scattered all around the globe, and we need to make sure that we're engaging everyone in the community or at least giving them that opportunity to be fully engaged. So that's really all I wanted to say about that. And, you know, speaking of mailing lists, then we have Morali and Richard and hopefully others involved in a thread on the GSL. You know, we've had, since the paper was published and first brought to the TSC, I think, back in late November, early December, time frame, you know, there's been, I think, you know, a little bit of, well, what are we going to do with this thing? And I think that, again, we should, you know, indeed be engaging in the dialogue on exactly, you know, where do we go with this next, right? Is this something that we can start collaborating on? Is this something that we implement with or in one of these or multiples of the various frameworks we're working on? Or is it something that can be built with one of those experimentally, and do we want to pull people together to actually do that? I'd love to see that conversation expanded to see where we might go with this next. There's not really much more to do with this, because I think Richard certainly is not on, and I think Morali is away as well. So that's probably not going to go further. So we're running out of time. I don't know, Brian, was there something that you wanted to follow up on the security badge discussion? I know we had that three weeks ago. I think we can meet some future agendas. I think we're fine. We just know what we need to do here. Right, and we just need to hire someone. Which, you know, we know there are jobs posted. You know, if you're on social media and you can help amplify the hyperledger projects post on the availability of these positions, please do share with your, you know, within your social circles. And then finally, Todd, another advertisement for your internship program. Yeah. So we are ready to get the internship program launched. So the first step of that, we are calling for anyone that is interested in mentoring an intern. So I'm going to drop the link into the chat window now. But so if you have any suggestions on projects they would work on, or different things like that, please fill out the form in about two weeks or so, depending on how many mentors have signed up. We will publicly kick off the internship program and start taking applications for students for a summer internship program. Hyperledger project will fund all of the interns for this. We will fund up to six of them. And we will also take care of all the backend, HR, logistics, finance, et cetera. So you don't have to worry about that. If you have any questions, shoot me an email or find me on Slack. And yeah, if you're interested in being a mentor, please fill out that form as soon as possible. Okay. And with that, I think we're at end of job. Thanks, everyone. And hopefully we'll see most of you next week in the Presidio. Yes. Look forward to it. Cheers. Bye, guys. Bye, guys. Sorry, everyone. Thanks, everyone. Bye. Okay, guys. Bye-bye.


All right, thank you, everyone. And welcome to the first ever Polymer Summit. My name is Taylor Savage. I am the product manager on the Polymer team. It's going to be an amazing day. We all just can't wait. It'll be a whirlwind tour through everything that we do on the Polymer project. But right off the bat, I want to say thank you. So thank you to our incredible Dutch hosts in this beautiful city of Amsterdam in this incredible venue. Thank you so much, as Matt said, to the Polymer team, to the Chrome team, to all of Google. Everybody who's put in so much work to make this happen. And you can really see how passionate the whole team is, that everybody's out, everybody's here to answer questions. We're so excited to meet all of you and hear what you have to say. And finally, thank you all for coming. We have developers here from every single continent except Antarctica. We're going to work hard for the next summit to get some folks out from Antarctica. But I want to kick things off first before we dive in to the really hands-on talks to kind of give a little bit about where Polymer has been in the recent past and where we're going in the near future. So just the other day, it was Chrome's seventh birthday. And Polymer is part of the Chrome organization at Google. We are the official developer library of the web platform at Google. And we sit next to a lot of the Blink team who actually works on the Chrome renderer up in the beautiful Google San Francisco office. So for Chrome's seventh birthday, we had a nice toast with the whole team. It's really exciting to see a product come so far in seven years. And if there's one thing that you should know about the Chrome team and the web platform team is we really, really, really love Legos. And who doesn't? Legos are awesome. Polymer team as well, we really love Legos too. And Legos are a great metaphor for the kind of things that Polymer lets you build and that web components that you build. They're composable. They're modular. They're reusable. You can use the same kinds of pieces to build really, really incredible things. And so as a nice little diversion from preparing for the summit, we had a Lego building contest for Chrome's seventh birthday across the entire office. And I am very, very proud to say that the Polymer engineering team won the Lego building contest. These are their creations or abominations. The challenge was to build the craziest seven for Chrome's seventh birthday. But instead of building sevens, our engineering team really should have been building threes. The master branch of the Polymer library is about to turn three years old next month. So our first commit was on October 10, 2012. Back then, the project was called Tool Kitchen. And the very early spec of web components was just kind of getting started. And Polymer and web components were evolving in tandem. So this is from the first commit on the read me of GitHub. And what I really love about these early Tool Kitchen commits is how both foreign and familiar they are to today's Polymer. So the names and the APIs have obviously changed dramatically. But the fundamental tenets of what makes Polymer Polymer have remained exactly the same. So you can see on this first read me, it says, emphasis on modularity and encapsulation via a component model. Be declarative. Say what you mean. There's another reason we should have been building threes instead of sevens. The 1.0 version of the Polymer library just turned three months old. It's really amazing to see how far it's come and how far the community has come in just a short three months. We've been seeing incredibly exciting and exponential adoption and innovation on the 1.0 library. So there's been exponential growth on the public web for applications built with Polymer 1.0. Over 150,000 public-facing production web pages are using Polymer today. Actually, when I landed in Amsterdam, this slide read 100,000. And I have to update it since we were here. Starterkit has been downloaded 65,000 times. And the paper elements are used on thousands of different websites. And some major companies are also really seeing and buying into the component model that web components in Polymer now lets you build with. So this is a quote from a recent article about ING Direct's adoption of Polymer. And this is from their IT head of strategy. We no longer build applications. We have and are enriching a modular market sourced from industry and the ING global community. Modules are assembled into applications as the business requires. And I think that's just a really elegant statement of this new world of web components. Polymer 1.0 internal adoption at Google has also been growing spectacularly. So over 300 projects internally at Google are now using Polymer 1.0. And we just launched three months ago. And as everyone here knows, it can take a really long time to build applications and then ship them out into production. But we've already seen some pretty exciting production ready launches of Google products using Polymer. Patents.google.com recently launched. And then even more recently, the YouTube gaming site launched in production on the web using Polymer 1.0. So you'll see more and more of these coming out in the coming months as these products that are building with Polymer go into production. So now, barely three months old, we are here at our first ever Polymer Developer Summit in beautiful Amsterdam. I've gotten a lot of questions. Why Amsterdam? Why did we pick Amsterdam to have a conference? So first, why not? It's a beautiful city. There's an incredibly strong developer community here and in broadly in Europe. It's a beautiful location. It's a beautiful venue. Amsterdam and San Francisco are also very similar in a lot of ways. They're these both gleaming cities on the water, relaxed policies toward recreation, just a lot of fun cities to be in. And the Polymer community is also spread out across the entire world. So this is a map of where we held Polytechnic events last fall. And as you can see, again, every single continent, there is a group of devoted Polymer developers to hold these Polytechnic events, except Antarctic again. There are holdouts, but we're working on that. There's another connection, though, between the Netherlands and web components. So about four years ago, Alex Russell first introduced web components at the Frontiers Conference right here in the Netherlands. So the web components in Netherlands go way, way back. And on web components, they've come an incredibly long way from Alex's talk just four years ago. And recently, there's been some pretty significant steps toward broad browser adoption on web components.  As a quick recap, there are four specs as part of the kind of web components umbrella. There's the template, which is native-side templating on the web. There's Shadowdom, which gives you these really nice composition primitives. Custom Elements, which lets you create your own DOM nodes and DOM elements. And HTML Imports, which lets you load web components, so loading HTML with HTML. And of these four specs, they're all critical. This is the foundation upon which Polymer is built. Template and Shadowdom, in particular, are really the hardest to polyfill. And they're also the ones that give you the true encapsulation and reusability and composition that is so wonderful with web components. And I'm really, really pleased to say that we've made incredible progress across all the different browser vendors on getting closer and closer to shipping broadly with template and Shadowdom. So browser standards conversations can be really subtle and delicate. And I really don't want to put words in anyone's mouths. So I'm going to use direct quotes from the other browser vendors on these specs, in particular. So Wilson Page from Mozilla recently published a great state of web components article that ends with this quote, web components have been in planning for over three years, but we're optimistic the end is near. All major vendors are on board enthusiastic and investing significant time to help resolve the remaining issues. So that's really exciting. The Microsoft team, the Edge team, has also been working really, really hard to get web components in the new Edge browser, which we're so excited about. So this is another quote from a recent article by Travis and Aaron on the Edge team there, where they wrote, we are happy to announce that we are starting development to add HTML template element support to Microsoft Edge today. This is just the beginning of our web components journey. The next goal is to implement Shadow DOM. So you can actually check up on the status of Edge implementation on Shadow DOM with this link on the bottom right. And also from Microsoft, Daniel Buckner on the Microsoft team is working to actually build out Microsoft specific web components using the XTAG library. And so we've actually demoed Polymer components and XTAG components working together on the same page with no problems at all. It's kind of the beautiful story of interop of web components. So we're incredibly excited about this too. And the WebKit team has also been contributing really deep and fundamental innovations to the specs, including the latest Slots API for Shadow DOM. So we're really excited to be working with the WebKit team as well. So as you can see, it's a really incredibly exciting time. Browser vendors are all working together. We're all making contributions. This is kind of out of the ordinary. Web standards processes can be slow and arduous, but I really, really think that we're in one of those renaissance periods of true innovation on the web platform and specifically around web components. So web components have come a really long way. Polymer library has come a really long way. It's being used in production on some of the biggest sites on the web. It has enormous momentum. It has enormous investment, but we're really just only at the beginning. Now today's conference is gonna be all about building things. This is a developer conference through and through. We'll be going deep into the practical know-how that you need to build really great experiences on the web with Polymer, which is our whole goal. So we'll be touching on three main themes today. The first is develop. So how you can use all of the features that Polymer gives you and the Polymer elements give you to be able to build end-to-end applications using Polymer. The second is design. So how you can make sure that your Polymer apps look and work great for all of your different users. And then finally, deploy. So how you can make sure that your app is fast and production-ready on the web. And we don't want today's conference to be about big splash announcements. This is a developer conference, and we wanna be hands-on and help building apps from start to finish. But I would like to paint a picture of where we see Polymer going in the near future. So our mission, as we've said before, is to help web developers just build great experiences on the web. And you are all out on the bleeding edge with us. Polymer is not just another framework. It is a massive change. It is a sea change in how we do web development. And we need to make this easier for developers that aren't as brilliant or awesome or good-looking as all of you, and all of you on the live stream as well. So there are three ways that we wanna help developers in the near future work and build with Polymer. We wanna help you decrease your developer friction, achieve great performance, and then build complex apps using Polymer. So how are we gonna do that? Decreasing developer friction. Using HTML with web components is a revolution in how we do front-end development. But it could be even more awesome. And there are a couple of sticking points in particular that I'm sure all of you have faced at some point or another when building with Polymer that we think that there's big opportunities to make improvement. So the first is managing and using elements. And elements are great. Our whole mantra, there's an element for that. You have a problem that you're running into when building your application, and there's an element for that on the web that solves your problem that you can just use. And the problem today is that this isn't necessarily true. There might be an element out there that solves your problem, but to get it into your application, first you need to install Bower, and then you need to install the element, and then you might have to resolve some dependency conflicts. It's just not really an elegant process to even use that element for your first time. And we really think that this should be as simple as this should be using element. You should just be able to import the element and then use it on your page. It should be like loading it from a CDN. You should never have to think about these dependency problems. So we're working on a tool, Google is working on a tool called Polygit to be able to load and deduplicate all of your element dependencies in the cloud on the web. So this will make getting started with new projects easier. It'll let you use elements in environments where you might not necessarily control the server, and it might even give you CDN-like performance in production applications. So we don't necessarily see a Polygit-like tool as blowing away client-side dependency management, but we do think it'll provide a much smoother on-ramp to getting started building applications using Polymer and these elements. The second developed time experience that we can help improve is actually writing code and actually editing code. So when we're developing the Polymer core library, there's a mantra that we kind of keep repeating, which is that every byte has a cost. Every byte has a cost. Polymer is so lean that we don't include error message strings inside of the actual library. So it can be a little hard to know what's going wrong when you might have a bug. And this leanness is really great in production. It's what you want, but it can kind of make the developed time experience tricky and hard. So you might have run into this problem, the dreaded blank page problem, where you're editing in your text editor.  And there's no error in the console, nothing's showing up, you just kind of have a blank page. And this can be really frustrating. And more than likely, it's just a small typo or you forgot an import somewhere. But still, it's that kind of grinding feeling when you run into a wall with this blank page. And we don't think this should ever happen. So we're working on a tool called Polylint. Polymer is lean and light and we want to keep it that way. So we're going to move all of those developer error messages into this tool called Polylint, which will help you at developed time constantly link your application and make sure that you're not making these kind of errors. So you can catch them before you even refresh your browser and run into that blank page. And Polymer's MO is all about composability.  And these are, you know, it's a lot of different tools. That's absolutely true.  But the beauty of Polymer's is composability. So we want to build the tools in the same way. So you can compose these tools into bigger tools to build exactly what you need for your workflow. And so we'll get into a little more on this with talks later this afternoon. The second big thing that we want to help developers with is achieving great performance. So Polymer is a Swiss Army knife. You can build really awesome, cool things with it. You can also build slow things with it. It lets you do whatever you would like. So we're working on a number of different tools to help you get deeper insight into the performance of your application and the Polymer elements that you're using. So the major cost when you're building an application using Polymer is using lots of elements. The elements are super great. You know, they let you do all these kinds of cool things, but they're not free. Just like if you were working with basic HTML, if you're using tens of thousands, 100,000 elements on a page, it could get slow. And so the big problem is that knowing the cost of your element is really critical to achieving great success with your application in Polymer. And so we want to make this element cost much clearer as you're developing the application so you can kind of optimize throughout and know where your bottlenecks are. So we're working on a tool called Polydev to help you measure what we call kind of the atomic mass of a particular element. So what a single element's cost might be and then more broadly how all of these elements contribute to the overall performance of your app so you can really see where your bottlenecks are when you're building with elements. We'll be using these tools to constantly be slimming down our own elements. So we focused on performance of the core library with the 1.0 launch and we'll be using this as a major effort to slim down all of the elements that we released with Polymer. And it really speaks to the great part of reusing elements is if we make an performance improvement to one of the elements and you bower update, you're just a bower update away from getting a lot of these performance improvements. So keep your elements up to date. And if you're developing elements, same thing, you can constantly be improving the performance of your elements and your users are just a bower update away. Finally in the performance bucket is HTTP2. We've seen some really incredible gains with the brand new HTTP2 standard can achieve in terms of loading cost. I would love to tell you about it because it's really amazing but Eric is gonna talk a little bit about them this afternoon and he would kill me if I spoiled the surprise. But suffice it to say that with HTTP2 and PolyGit, we're starting to really see this radical simplification of building web applications out of components and we're working to make this feasible and possible really, really soon. So the final thing that we wanna help developers with is in building really complex apps. And we talked a little bit earlier about how the Polymer team is, we're big fans of Legos and Legos are a great metaphor for the kind of things that we build. And one of the ways that the Lego analogy really, really works is you can build incredibly complex things all completely out of just Legos. You don't need anything else. You can just use Legos and build incredibly complex structures. And this is because all Legos can form to the same basic format. This is great because you can totally mix and match Legos from different sets. You know, you can buy a set over here, you can buy a set over there and you're guaranteed that all the parts are just gonna work together. And again, this is because they are all using the same basic format. So I looked this up. This is the original Lego patent. And those little nubs on the top of the Lego are called studs and the holes on the bottom are called tubes. And no matter where you go to buy a Lego, you're just gonna have the exact same stud height and the exact same tube width. And this simple stud and tube model is what gives you this powerful interoperability so you can use all of these Legos together, guaranteed and they'll all work together and you'll be building really strong structures out of it. The stud and tube model for the web platform is DOM. You have nodes and you have events. And Polymer directly lets you use this platform at the metal to help you build elements. And when you're building elements right on the platform, when you're building right down to the metal, the performance improvements that browser vendors make and the performance improvements that come with browsers are reflected right away and immediately in the applications that you build. So we think that the best way to build web apps on the web platform is to actually embrace the web platform. We don't necessarily think that the future of web development is going to be throwing away the platform and building your own kind of platform and user space on top and then throwing away that platform when a new kind of user space platform comes around. It's a bit like building a Jenga tower on top of a base of Legos. Elements benefit directly from the consistency of the platform and are fundamentally of the platform and you get all of the benefits that come with that. So we focused our element product lines that we build on the Polymer team on solving really, really minute and specialized problems for specific use cases. We built the iron elements, the paper elements for material design, the Google Web components for wrapping Google APIs in elements, the platinum elements for the cutting edge web platform features, the gold elements for e-commerce. And we're going to continue expanding this model, dramatically increasing our reach in e-commerce vertical and potentially the publishing vertical as well, in addition to new verticals. But the one major set of problems that we haven't really tackled on the Polymer team yet with elements is how you structure an entire application end to end. And we get a lot of questions about this. I want to use an element. How do I do app layout? How do I do routing? How do I do lazy loading? And our answer up to this point has been, they're Legos. You can put them together however you want. You can use a library that you want for routing. You can wrap it in element. The world is your oyster when it comes to elements. Polymer is, again, a Swiss Army knife. It doesn't enforce the kind of app-level architecture or hierarchy every little piece of how you need a structure application. It leaves it up to you, the developer. But the problem is that there's a little bit of paradox of choice here. If there's so many different ways to structure your application, it's hard to know where to start and that can be frustrating. So I'm really, really pleased to announce that we are working on a new set of elements, tentatively named the carbon elements, that are all focused around solving these application-level structural problems. So when you're building with components.  Now, I want to be clear, these are definitely not the only way you can solve these problems with elements. Obviously, if you like a different routing library, you like a different lazy loading solution, you can swap these in and out. They're just elements. But we will build a polymer idiomatic and framework-oriented set of components with the carbon elements. We think that the best framework can sometimes be the platform itself. And so these elements will really reflect our philosophy here. So this is in its very early stages. We'll announce more as these ideas develop and we're obviously gonna open them up on GitHub very early so you can kick the tires and start playing with them, giving us your feedback. So there's lots of new and exciting things in Polymer on the horizon. We'll be decreasing developer friction with code hosting and code linting tools. We'll be making performance easier with all kinds of element measurement tools. We'll be providing a well-lit path to structuring end-to-end applications using Polymer components. So we're just incredibly excited for the next steps of the Polymer project and to continue working closely with all of you as these tools evolve and grow. So to stay up to date with the latest, you can follow the Polymer blog. We will keep constant updates there. You can follow us at Twitter or on Google Plus at the Plus Polymer projects. But enough talk, enough promises. Let's get down to actually building stuff. So I'll throw it back to Matt to introduce our next speaker. Thank you.


For bacteria it appears that optimal growth conditions are found for similar or slightly higher OSM 0.25 to 0.4 osmol, despite that they represent a much earlier stage in evolution. We argue that this value reflects a general adaptation for optimizing metabolic function under crowded intracellular conditions. This article was authored by Hocken Wenestrom and Mikhail Oliveberg.


Welcome to WISIS Forum 2022 here in Geneva and with me is His Excellency Mr. Tololoupi, Polomoniko Onesimo, and your Minister of Communications and IT in Samoa. Welcome. Thank you. And what are you enjoying most about being at the 2022 Forum? From a small island state isolated in the Pacific, this is a huge opportunity for us not only to learn from the experts and the peak players in the industry, but also share ideas, learn from their ideas and what are they doing best at their individual states, perspective states, which is a good chance for me, for us as a team, because I'm here not only myself, but also we have our regulator here and a couple of our teams. So a small island state still developing, it's a good opportunity for us. But also with states with limited resources, we've got other priorities such as education, competing priorities, education and health. Now with ICT platform being a vital platform for development these days. It's also good support as we try and raise awareness in our states that this is the future. This will be the platform for the future for development. And sustainable development. It's all about meeting those sustainable development goals, isn't it? Yes. Through the use of ICT. Yes, good use of ICT, even marketing, business marketing and so forth, it's all on using ICT platforms. So it will be a good lesson and a message to take it back home, learning from what we have seen and heard and learned from throughout the week. So looking forward to the next few years as we try and develop our digital transformation and use available resources to the best that we can. Are there any really specific challenges where you think, oh, there are people here at this forum who are experts in this and can really help us? Where is the focus for you? Well, I guess if you look around at this forum, we see this forum hardly any Pacific islands in it. So not only our small island states are more individually, but also in a region, there's not much attention. I'm not sure if it's the right word, but we need to not only collaborate as a region, but also as a sub-region, because we are under Asia Pacific. And most of the seats in the council, it's taken up by big players in Asia Pacific. But we have 13 plus islands, which is more or less isolated, which we definitely need ICT. If you consider transportation logistics and links to the big markets, we need ICT to keep it closer. So yours is a really important perspective that you're bringing here, as much as you're learning from other people, you're bringing that unique perspective. Yes. For ITU's consideration, it's a big challenge. And we also would love to, I guess this morning as a team, we discussed it, how can we get closer to ITU? I guess one of the best is to either have a sub-region office in the Pacific, because not even in New Zealand or Australia, to get here to these important meetings, it will take at least three days to get here, like four flights. But at least one stop, or even on island, will be a good start for us. Also I guess one of the questions that was raised as a morning by our team is the internship. Opportunities for our young people to work at ITU, whether it's during our university years or it's just to have an experience from ITU and bring that back home after studies. And I was told that it's hard to get such opportunity. So I guess having a sub-regional office or even consistent existence of ITU in the region will be much helpful. Well, Your Excellency, thank you for bringing your perspective to WISIS Forum 2022. And thank you for being here for this interview. Thank you very much for the opportunity. Thank you.