it's remarkable. Well, hey, if you've joined us, anybody, this is like the power hour, we're witnessing with our great friend Jack Alotto from Fundraising Academy, and we are talking about the backbone of our country in our Green Room chatter and how it has really been influenced by faith-based organizations, sometimes that we don't know because it gets spun off or whatever. And so, yeah, I mean, this is one of those things about our nation. For all the things, the foibles that we have and the issues that we have, you know, you cannot beat us on philanthropy. As I get older and I look around the world and I talk with different social sector leaders around the globe and just people in our sector, we really, it is something that is truly remarkable. And so, but we have a long way to go. We have a lot of things to do. And Friday, hopefully, we help you with that because this is, I think, my favorite day. It's our Ask and Answer episode. And it's really a lot of fun. If we haven't met, I'm Julia Patrick, CEO of the American Nonprofit Academy. And today in the hot seat is Jack Alotto, our friend from Fundraising Academy, who we always love his energy and the things that he has to say. He's the man that knows all about CFRE as well. And so, we are thrilled, Jack, to have you back. Great. I'm happy to be back. Happy Friday to everyone. Hard to believe. Well, before we get going, I certainly want to make sure that we thank all of our presenting sponsors who are in with us day in and day out so that we can deliver this content. Bloomerang, American Nonprofit Academy, Fundraising Academy. Thank you, Jack. Nonprofit Nerd, your part-time controller and staffing boutique. Thank you to all of our partners that help us. Okay, you ready, my friend, to get going? Yes. Yes, let's do it. We got a big question. This comes to us from Rachel from Portland, Oregon. I've heard a few of your guests mention hiring freelance or external labor for graphics. Specifically, I recall your guest, Anthony Wilson, speak of contracting low-cost podcast editors. Can you tell me the name of this company or site? So, Jack, I had to go back and I had to watch that episode. And he specifically mentioned the company Fiverr. It's F-I-V-V-I-E-R, I believe. Yeah, it is. I've heard of them. And here's another one, TechSoup. Yes. TechSoup is awesome. Our friend's at TechSoup, which is actually located in San Francisco. I've seen their building many times. But you know, for me, Julia, the thing about this is that what she or he is talking about is a consultant relationship. And I think for me, and I've hired many consultants, I've been a consultant. And as have you guys as well, there are three important things about hiring or even pro bono consulting. And the first thing is to have a really clear understanding of your organization's needs, timeline, budget, who's going to oversee this consultant, whether it's pro bono or paid, and then you need an agreement. The second thing is you have to find the right partner. Now, in this, they're looking for a graphics, some graphics help. So you're not going to want somebody like me who's going to help you with maybe a capital campaign. You want somebody who has that specific skill. And one of the things that you might do with either of those organizations is to develop an RFP.  And the third thing, which is really the most important thing, whether it's a volunteer or paid consultant is get a letter of agreement, do your due diligence, and absolutely understand who is going to manage and oversee that consultant. Make sure you have deliverables in that, in that agreement, and also how you're going to evaluate that person pro bono or paid consultant. Those are really the three things that really, I think, stand out to me in working with any consultant, whatever the project is. You know, amazing, amazing advice, Jack. I really appreciate it because you're right. While Rachel from Portland is looking at a freelance thing specific to this graphics, what you just said is magical for any type of relationship. And in the green room chatter, we were talking before we got started, I think even before we were on camera, the issues of hiring right now. And we had a guest on this week, staffing boutique, the CEO, talking about how hard it is to find, to fill these positions. And one of her advice pieces was, you know, look to this freelance part time relationship, because that's probably going to be something that's more manageable. So I think we're going to be seeing this kind of relationship moving forward on a lot of levels. And so I love your advice. So when I, when I think of my own career, and maybe you too, Julia, I did volunteer work. And that built up my skill sets. And maybe it wasn't the best development professional, but people gave me a chance to try it out. And they trained me. That's the other thing they did. So just before we move on, Rachel, scope of work was number two, excuse me, number one, I'm getting ahead of myself. Number two was the contracting evaluation, if you call MOU, memo of understanding, something that's written down that memorializes all of this. And then number three was the management follow up. And, and who's going to watch it, right? Yeah. Did I get those in the right order? Yeah. Right. Well, that's a great relationship. Yeah. Okay, cool. That's great. You know, man, that's good advice. Okay. You know, Jack, how I love anything with the name withheld. This is like my favorite. Okay. Name withheld Orange County, California. We're looking at expanding our development team and have been told by a board member that we should recruit from the university, private college sector. Why would this be a good idea? And how can we compete with such large salaries? So I, this question, this question brings a huge red flag to me. Okay. And what that red flag is, is that a board member and the words we should. Okay. So this product, this hiring is first of all, an operational thing. Now you can invite board members to sit on an interview committee, but the we should is sort of like a directive. So that's a red flag for me. And maybe the first thing I would do is determine who does what in an organization. Board members, policy, approving plans. They're not really sending directives to staff like you should or we should do this. So that's the first red flag. The second red flag is large organizations. I don't know the size of this organization. Large organizations like hospitals and universities, which this board member is advocating, use very few volunteers in fundraising. Smaller nonprofits. And those are the ones that have my heart definitely are those who are using lots of volunteers. So you have to ask yourself that question.  So that's one of the things that come to mind immediately. The other thing is just because now I worked in hospitals, I worked in large organizations. That doesn't mean that I am a better development professional than a major guest officer at an organization with a staff of five people. It could be so much better than someone like me who came from a large organization where I had lots of resources. And I just was running with these resources. Smaller organizations depend on people who volunteer, who do a lot of work and fundraisers. The best fundraisers, Julie, that we've said many times are volunteers. They really know how to raise money, especially if they're trained correctly. So it really depends on the size of the organization. But that big red flag for me is the board members being involved in operations. And I know why this person withheld their name. I don't blame them. I probably withheld my name as well. You know, Jack, when I read this, I thought my first thought was the board members probably in business and getting the general business RSS feeds coming across their desk and seeing XYZ person just donated to this university or that college. We know that in the U.S., the largest funded and endowed organizations are universities and private colleges. And I think that looks really sexy and it looks like, oh my God, those people are doing it right and they know how to get the big bucks. And so I can see probably where the genesis of that thought was we just need to get the heavy hitters from the university system. To your point, that's not really going to solve all your problems. It's not going to solve your problems. No, it's really interesting. I mean, that's the type of question that's never come in. Okay, Thomas from Fort Worth, Texas. I'm coming from the viewpoint of the for-profit sector. Why does the nonprofit sector not invest in quote unquote team building or even a little bit of staff training? This is a huge problem. Huge problem. And you know, for me, I think that one of the most important things in any organization, no matter the size, along with this question, is building teams. And here's something that I like to say about building teams. How do you build great teams? And I don't think this requires a huge investment, Julia. What you do with your teams, building teams is you create mutual respect. You help them understand how each staff role is interrelated to each other staff role. You invite creativity and ideas for improving operations from everyone, not just from those who are working in major gifts or annual gifts or even the program side, allow everyone to express their feelings. You invite people to talk about their problems and challenges and failures openly. That's how you build a team. You have regular staff meetings. You recognize success. You give individual performance evaluations. You make sure that everyone buys into a staff team. You set team norms, expectations and interactions. So building teams is pretty free and everyone should do that, no matter the size of the organization. Now ongoing staff training, which was the second initiative, this person from Fort Worth, which is a beautiful town by the way, talked about. So when I worked and people would offer me staff training, no matter what it was in-house or external, I would take it. Here's the thing that I like to say about allowing staff to develop themselves. It builds loyalty. When you say to Jack, go out and learn about plan giving or go out and learn about cause selling and we're going to support you with this, I become loyal with this organization because and when you're loyal, when your employees are loyal, you know, back to your previous guest this week, when your employees are loyal, it aids in retention. They're not going to be out looking for other jobs because you've created an environment both with the team building but also with enabling me to build my skill set. One of the things that I think you do and again, this doesn't cost money is you allow employees to identify areas that they would like to build their understanding of. And yes, it could be annual campaigns, capital campaigns. I went to many plan giving programs, trainings. It could be about stewardship, cultivation, etc. There are loads of ways to provide these trainings, bring in professionals, online programs, like this program that we have right here. They're learning. This is a free way that employees can develop skills. So it's really important. So all of the study groups that you might have around CFRE or other things. And it's really, really important to show your employees that you want to help them develop their skill set. You know, it's interesting, Jack. I love what you how you started off and that it's a group thing because what I see is like the management side investing in this or demanding it or or even recognizing it and it's separate from program program. And and I think we need to have more programming people at the table so we can understand what it is that they're doing what they want to do. And then I think the programming staff needs to know what fundraising does. I think a lot of times programming is like, well, they just go out to lunch and have, you know, cocktails and ask for money.  So I like what you said. I think you're right. We need to be, you know, rallying the troops better and right. Yeah. And you know what? Think about your own career when you work. If I went to an organization and I said, hey, I really like to learn more about writing a grant. Yeah. And they said, you know what? No, we don't think so. Can't afford it. You know, if you want to pay for it. I mean, when I took the CFRE, CFRE, I paid for it myself. Yeah. And not many people can afford that themselves. So if your employer says, you know, I'm not interested in you advancing what they're saying is I'm not interested in you advancing professionally. Yeah. Time to move along. Yeah. I mean, it's huge red flag. I mean, absolutely. And I appreciate you bringing it up because I think that's another lens to look at that. Yeah. And I think that's, I think that's really important. Okay. Makayla from Lexington, Kentucky writes, do you have a dollar amount of percentage we should be budgeting for marketing communications in relationship to total annual budget? We are a growing nonprofit and need some help with this. We had a similar question to this last week. And it was about the growth of marcoms because they never really had it. What's your take on this? So I think we have to take it and turn the question. I love the question, but I would turn around. This is a math question. What percentage of our budget? I don't like math questions. Okay. I didn't do well in math, math in high school and college. What I want you to ask yourself is what do you want to accomplish that should dictate your budget? If you are starting a plan giving program or a capital campaign, both of which require marketing communications initiatives, then that is going to dictate what your budget should be. So I really think it's important for us to ask ourselves the question, what are we trying to accomplish? What are our needs as it relates to marketing and communication? And then create a budget based on that. Okay. You know, I agree. I agree in principle and I agree in part, but I would say the standard that when you look at budgets, it's going to be high. It's going to be between 7% and 10%. And my sense of it, Jack, is that I see too many organizations that don't spend money and don't do a good job with the marketing. And then I'll be really candid. I see organizations that I think are like, wow, we really are spending money on this. And yet they have put the dollars in and they've put the packages together and the marketing and communications is spot on and they raise the big bucks. And that's kind of being a philanthropic snob, which I own. But I see this day in and day out when I look at organizations, and I think, my God, this is an organization that needs to be supported. It is so essential. And they don't have a strong marketing communications, platform sensitivity, funding, all of these things. And so they can't move the ball forward. And yet, Miss Bunny's Bunny Rescue has all that and people are just throwing money at bunnies. I totally agree with you. One of the things that we talk about all the time in the classes we teach at the fundraising academy is that you have a strategic plan, then you have it, which outlines your programs and your activities, your development plan, which is going to be what you use to fund those programs, activities, and then the marketing and communication plans, which talks to your various constituencies about your programs, activities, and your efforts to support those via fundraising. So I totally agree with you. We need to have marketing and communications money. Marketing and communications is the other side of that coin where one side is fundraising and the other side is marketing and communication. So definitely I agree with you. But I think as part of your deliberations, as part of your leadership and management in your organization, you have to define what your market, what do you want to accomplish with your marketing and communications? Who do you want to communicate with? How do you want to communicate with them? How are you going to segment them and targeting your messages to those various segments? Those are key components. But yeah, just to say, 10% of our budget is going to go to marketing. We have a million-dollar budget. We plan on spending $100,000 on marketing. I don't know. No, I agree with you on that. I think that perspective is strong. I think it gives you permission to figure out how you're going to structure your marketing and communications team, too. Because you're right. You can't just throw money at it. You need to have measurables so that you understand if you need more or you're successful. Or you're not successful. Let's say you decide, Julia, that now you want to start a social media marketing campaign. How much is that going to cost? Who's going to create the messaging? Who's going to be updating those social media sites over once a week, every two days? What's the resources you have to do that? Do you have staff? Do you have to hire staff? That would go into your marketing communications budget. Is someone going to write messages from outside of your organization who's going to monitor it? Even if you just had a social media marketing, they just want to, you know, LinkedIn, Instagram, Facebook is still going to cost money. It's going to cost, yeah, and it's going to cost time. Okay, now here's another name with help and I got to mess up to you, Jack. This was something, this was a question that somebody asked me when I was out in public recently. And so I said, I will put this up on the nonprofit show. I will not use your name and they're like, yeah, please, do not use my name. So here's the question, Jack. We have a retiring CEO and a potential leader who they could promote. I'm assuming, and I'm not assuming, I know it was internal. As board chair, I'm wondering if we should set up a co-leadership position or situation. And then of course, please do not use my name. So I'm not a big fan of co-leadership. And I'll tell you why. Unless you clearly define who is going to do what and who is responsible for what. They're equal. You know what I am a fan of? Transitional leadership. I'm the retiring CEO and you're the incoming CEO or you're someone inside the organization or outside.  And it's a great way to test your ability to manage this as CEO. I love transitional leadership. They're less problems because I'm still the leader, but I am slowly and surely transitioning my responsibilities to you, Julia. And then eventually in six months, like this question says, I'm going to go away and it's going to be all yours. I love that. I think that's great. When I think of co-leadership, I think of that, you ask your mom and you don't get the right answer. So then you go and ask the dad. And I kind of feel like co-leadership sets that up. And my dad always said, go back and ask your mom. So did mine. And then one person is like the fun parent and the other person's the enforcer. And you learn, you navigate naturally, well, I want to get this answer or I want to get this moved ahead. So I'm going to ask that person and not this person. So I kind of feel like to your point, yeah, co-leadership is not good, interim, navigating that in, I think that's a much better thing. And then having a definitive break for the existing CEO. Yeah. One thing you don't want to have is, especially if they're a founder CEO is them hanging around and looking over your shoulder saying, Julia, now that you think you should do this, well, I'm already out of it. It's your show now. You're in charge. And that, I think that co-leadership is fraught with so many problems. And you're right. I love that you brought that up because founder syndrome is a real thing. And it's a brutal thing. And so to your point, that's even more important. And I can verify with you, this is a founder situation. Again, this was somebody that came to me at a public event and asked me to weigh in on this. So yeah, really interesting. Well, Jack, you are Jack of all trades, as you like to say. Master of none. Master of a lot. Jack Elotto with Fundraising Academy. You know, you have always been such a joy to work with. You bring us so many great ideas. And I think as a trainer and the, you know, the national exposure that you have, you get to bring a lot of different viewpoints to us. And so we are thrilled when we get you in on the hot seat. Jack has done some really cool work with us. He was a big part of our full week that we did, Nonprofit Power Week with Fundraising Academy, just specifically addressing major gifts. And then we have Jack back on in just a very short week or so, talking about something really interesting, the top 10 Epic Fundraising Fails. Yes.  And what we're going to do is we're going to talk about what you shouldn't do. Yeah. Yeah. You know, I've looked at these decks, these show decks for the show run, and they're fascinating. I think it's going to be really, really good. In fact, it's so good. We put you in on two days. It's going to be March 1st and March 2nd, because we really wanted to take a deeper dive. And so make sure you mark your calendars for that. And of course, if you're not able to join us on that, you can definitely get back through our archives. Again, we want to thank all of our presenting sponsors, Bloomerang, American Nonprofit Academy, Fundraising Academy, Nonprofit Nerd, Your Part-Time Controller, and Staffing Boutique. You all are here with us day in and day out. Jack, we are moving towards our 500th episode. Yes. Congratulations. Is that crazy? You know what? You guys don't look a day older than your second episode. I don't know. It was pretty rough in the beginning. I got to tell you. It was pretty rough. But yeah, no, we figured things out. We are still figuring things out. And a day like today is great because we get people to write in, to call in, to, you know, use social media. And it's really a lot of fun. So if you have a question for us or any of our experts, drop us a line and let us know what you're thinking and where you could maybe use some help or you could actually just use a different voice. Because you know, Jack, as Jared and I always like to say, we always have an opinion. So do I. And my opinion is always right. Oh my gosh. Well, hey, this has been a marvelous, marvelous way for me to end my week. Jack, thank you so much. We're really looking forward to having you back on with us. It's going to be a lot of fun. And as we remind everybody and ourselves every day, as we conclude our episode of the nonprofit show, we want to remind everyone to stay well. So you can do well. We're going to see you back here next week. Thank you.


Hello, welcome back to the Donahue Group. We're feisty and ready to talk about state issues and maybe just segue a little bit into how the national issues just force their way into state politics. I'm Mary Lynn Donahue, the host of this often difficult to control group, but joining me today, Cal Potter, former state senator. Very difficult to control. Just bad people off camera here. Tom Pineski, University of Wisconsin-Shaboygan mathematics professor. Ken Risto, dressed to match the set. This color and the color of our beautiful new set is just a very, very nice palette. He and Martha Stewart were in consultation this very morning. I heard an immediate visor. Was her money your challenge? I got him cheap in the John McCain campaign. He was cut loose. No, no, no, no. But the rest of us are just all blending in with this. This is actually a very nice new set, and we're just kidding, but it is nice to be here. It doesn't feel quite so cramped, and so we appreciate that. And the sun clock for the sun god. We are in that great time of state government when they're trying to pass the budget, trying to construct and deconstruct and- Sausage making. Sausage making at its best with all sorts of vile parts in it. Cal, you were part of that process for many, many years, and things have changed somewhat. Have they not, in terms of how all of this works, or is it still pretty much the same? Well, I had the, of all the 24 years I spent in two houses, only two years of it was in the minority. That was two years in the mid-90s when the Republicans controlled the state Senate. When you have split houses, it makes things very, very difficult, of course, because you end up with no agreement come July one because there's usually a radical difference in the packages passed in respect of houses. For many years, Tommy Thompson, from 16 years, dominated Wisconsin's governorship as a Republican, but we had democratically controlled legislatures for many of those years. And so what you had is you had Tommy's version of the budget and then you had the legislative version of the budget. What has really changed now is you've got a Senate version of the budget. You had the governor's budget, which went to the Senate and was modified, but not drastically, but then the assembly came in with their own version, which was radically different. And so when it goes to what is known as a conference committee to resolve the differences between the two houses, you have just a Herculean task to resolve the differences because they're so far apart. There were a lot of fee increases particularly in the Senate version emanating many from the governor, particularly fees on user type things in real estate and other types of areas, where the governor's trying to raise revenues for specific programs that he thinks are tied to in some way to that program or the constituency of that program. Well, when the Republicans in the assembly who have just lost the Senate don't have the governorship anymore, a fee is a tax and therefore you're not gonna go along with any type of tax because you want the Senate back and you wanna keep the assembly and they are within three seats of losing the assembly. So you need to have some type of very steadfast message and that's what's coming out of the assembly. No taxes, no fees, but the problem is you have to finance state government, it costs money. There are inflationary costs, gasoline costs alone for school districts and municipalities and so on and the state as well, gobble up an increased amount of budget every two years and so as a result they do need more revenue and that's what we're having a problem with is you've got two radically different budgets in two houses going to a conference committee and there's no need for any side to compromise quickly. The problem is the taxpayers and the people of Wisconsin need a budget as of July one and here we are as we tape almost middle of August and we don't have any really serious movement towards resolution. So what will change? And I remember in the Tommy Thompson days, weren't there just budgets that were months and months and months overdue? There were some times when there was a delay and it, because there wasn't agreement and it did go off into, I think the latest I've ever seen it was usually October. Then the fire starts to heat up because, as Tom knows and the people who've been in yourself who are in school boards and municipal bodies, you need to share revenue forecasts, you need your school aid forecast. You can't print a property tax bill by the middle of December and send it out for everybody unless you've got all those local aids delineated and that goes all the way from transportation to shared revenue. So the heat will be on these people as you get closer to fall. They finally resolve it because people on a local level who are decision makers and people who have to run the local services are saying, hey kids, you know, stop throwing sand, get serious. You gotta have a budget, whether it's now or later, it's gonna be a budget. You might as well do it now because it'll make life a lot easier for all of us who need to know what our aid payments are. Yeah, it'll be interesting to see how that plays out. Well, just you mentioned getting serious as deadlines come. I think the president of the UW system is already suggesting that fees be raised for the Madison and Milwaukee and the four year universities because school is starting in September and he doesn't figure the budget's gonna be done, so. And it's a jump, it's a 5.4% increase in tuition. And the UW colleges, he let stay with no increase, which at least this is the president Riley. So he's suggesting to the Board of Regents and they're gonna take it up next week and see if they go ahead and raise the fees because they have to know and the institutions have to function. So it's already taken place. And that's the assembly and I'm gonna make some partisan shots here. The assembly didn't do a very good job, I think, of portraying a conservative budget. If I were to bend them, I would have simply said, we're gonna freeze it and pass the same budget that you had two years ago and that way we're responsible. We're not raising spending, we're not doing it. What they did is in many cases they cut certain programs and they did some pet programs that our Democrats are taking potshots at. For example, tax exemption for gold bullion dealers. Well, that doesn't fly very well. They, for a constituency that they wanted to- Chicken bullion is one thing, you know, beef bullion, but not gold, all right. They extended Milwaukee School of Choice to Racine County. You know, now there, and at the same time, they took some programs such as Homestead Property Tax Relief, which has historically gone to anybody of modest and low income to help them pay their property tax. What they've done with it, they've modified it to in order to free up money for these other programs that they passed, they've modified it so it only applies to people 65 and over.  Well, Democrats are naturally gonna kick the Republicans in the assembly in the rear end on that issue. They ought to be kicked in the rear end. Why should you put somebody who's of modest income, a woman, a widow through anguish because you wanted to free up money for Milwaukee School of Choice being extended to Racine or bull, gold bullion dealers? You know, so what they've done is they've created a package that has a lot of fodder for political barbs from the Democrats. So as this game goes on, and you're seeing these Molotov cocktails being thrown at each other, there's a genesis of this assembly budget that has created this fire. If they would simply, like I said, extended the budget of what we have today, they probably would have less of this hostility that's now going on. And I think some of the proposed cuts have had the opposite effect of really energizing constituents that may not have paid all that much attention to the state budget, which goes on forever, and who knows what's in it finally. Senator Assemblyman Lasse from Green Bay, Frank, right? Not Alan. Frank Lasse has suggested cutting all state funding for the university. Well, that was passed by the assembly, the cut funding for the law school. One of the best law schools in the country. One of the best law schools in the country. There are only two law schools in the state of Wisconsin to cut all state funding. At the same time that we're saying, and certainly one might take issue with whether or not we're short of prosecutors in Sheboygan County. But those people come from law schools and the Wisconsin law schools don't generate all that many lawyers and people don't particularly like lawyers until, of course, they need one. And then my lawyer is the best thing in the world. But also cutting funding for public radio and television. And by all measures, those are. This was the first in a nation, public radio. Oh, was that right? I didn't know that. It was 1917. 1917. And it's considered one of the best in the country. If you look at today was Mike, the programs that emanate out of Wisconsin, many of them are picked up by national radio. There's such, of course, such quality. Yeah. I don't have all the details. You grab a little more, but I would take issue with the word cut. It's you, the Democrats proposed so much and the Republicans proposed a little less. So the Democrats say it was a cut when it's really a increase. So I would take the issue with the word cut. You use cut in a couple of places on the Republicans cut the budget. I don't know. My guess is they probably increase the budget, but not as much as the Democrats, so the Democrats yell it's a cut. Well, and there is some truth to that. But the public, the funding for public radio and the law school, as I understand, is elimination. I don't know what you said, property tax regulation. It's gutting the program. Yeah, yeah. I mean, you couldn't say the governor's asked for $3 million and... We'll give you $2 million. Right, and so then that's where... The agreements are cut. Sure, and that's a political tack, I think, that's used on both sides, depending on who can gore what ox, but it's... It was simpler decisions by, I think, a number of people in the conservative Republican caucus in the assembly who are the clones of... They were legislative aides, they've not done very much else in their life. They ran for the legislature, they were sent out, they won, they come back, and they think it's cute to start playing games with programs, cut the law school, cut homestead property tax relief, and do things like that, that there's not a lot of thought there, and I think of what Tom's talking about, the overall budget, they might be a 3% increase rather than a 6% increase relative, but they did some stupid cuts and stupid things in that document that people who are custodians of the public service and will shouldn't have done, and they're paying the price for it by having a lot of criticism because of some of those particular decisions. Yeah, I mean it energizes the opposing base. And creates bases like you said, people who are in those programs, I'm sure the ARP and other coalition of aging groups are not happy about what happened to homestead property tax relief, even though it applies still to people 65 and over, and a lot of people who are under 65 who doggone well need help paying their property tax. Yeah, well it'll be interesting, and I do have to remember that Frank Lasse was the person who had suggested that was going to introduce a bill requiring all teachers to carry guns. And in response I think to the tragic school shooting in Casanovia? No, I'm sorry. The one that's just been on trial. Just found guilty. And just found guilty. But Stephen Colbert had a great report on that, that just the title of the report, talking about Frank Lasse's proposal is Chock and Awe. I just thought that was pretty cute, and who knows what it's, well attacking lawyers is not quite, I spend a lot of time with high school teachers, and you don't want us armed. You really? And that includes yours truly. I think this conflict is probably a plus. The group that can't shoot straight.  Only a couple of years they were different. So I think this is a plus that they could, I'm not, I don't think the Democratic ideas are the greatest. And you don't like the Republican ideas. So I think if, and of course, and ultimately in the end, Governor Doyle's gonna line I and veto whatever they send forward, and then it'll be all together different. But I think this is a plus, because then you really have to argue about priorities. Spending seems to be a priority for the Democrats and holding the line on taxes or fee increases, what you call it, seems to be a policy of the assembly. So, and then you have to figure out what's important and what's not, where the Democrats really don't have to give. It's gonna be the pressure on the Republicans, but. But I just think overall tax policy really is a policy and it's a question of who pays what. And so I don't think that either political party wants to not have taxes because taxes is the source of their power. It's just who pays and how things get distributed. And I think that's the big philosophical difference, but launching from that grand philosophical thought to I think a really excellent debate that is going on at a fairly high level in the legislature and I think around the state and who would have thunk five years ago that we would be talking as a state and really as a nation in some respects about universal healthcare. That if you're sick, you ought to be able to get to a doctor to a healthcare facility. Now the Senate has passed by all measure a fairly comprehensive, maybe a little scary plan for universal healthcare coverage. Still maintaining private insurance and so forth. A lot of third party pay or systems. My understanding is that Governor Doyle's support for the Senate plan is not overwhelming. Clearly the assembly is not interested, but even in the assembly, I think there's discussion about how do we provide healthcare for people who don't have access to it? We're a civilized society and if my brother needs to go see a doctor about his arthritis, he ought to be able to do that even if he doesn't have insurance or I do a lot of social security disability work. So in my office weekly, I see people who just don't go to the doctor because I mean if they get really bad, they'll go to an emergency room, but they have lots and lots of significant untreated chronic health problems that just, there's no access to care. So I think it's interesting that at least the discussion is on the table. I mean even the, Wisconsin's made the editorial The Wall Street Journal as we're the model to look at meaning we're the guinea pig for socialist kind of medicine for our states around the country. But it's interesting, relatively few people are talking about, we used to talk about socialized medicine, this terrible thing. The ground to me at least has shifted considerably. The Wall Street Journal editorial page, of course will go up in flames talking about socialized medicine, but most people of all political persuasion are talking about, how do you access healthcare? I mean we're all offended by Walmart people working full time and not being able to go to the doctor. Or being dumped on public programs. Exactly. And then people complaining about public welfare and public tax dollars being used to help these poor people. If you're a good capitalist, you ought to say the private sector ought to take care of that. And we all know that Medicare is, I mean say what you will is incredibly efficient and has provided universal healthcare for those who fit within the criteria. And they do it efficiently and quietly and it all gets done. So, I mean that's socialized medicine certainly in a certain way, but. I think we ought to face the issue it's political power that's preventing this from occurring. And it's a philosophy amongst some people particularly in the private sector who is saying it is not the responsibility of an employer to provide that type of benefit to their employees, their employees out on their own in the area of healthcare. However, that's a little hypocritic because what do we do when they're injured on a job? We have workers' compensation. Every state has it.   It's a government program. Everybody in the private sector buys into it and provides it. We just have not taken that next leap and said, well maybe when people are sick, it's kind of like when you lose your job and when you get injured on a job, somebody ought to help you. And we just haven't taken that next step. And we've said there was an editorial and local paper from one of the executives from one of those small business groups. Again, espousing the idea that healthcare is an individual responsibility. Well, if you don't have a job, you don't have much income, your employer refuses to provide you with that healthcare. You've got a pre-existing condition.  Somebody ought to step forward and do it. And the private sector ought to do it. I think they ought to. I think if you believe in capitalism and you believe in the strong private sector, it's no different than we provide public schools and public roads and public airports and workers compensation. And it's a lot of basic things. This is a basic thing. And we ought to use our collective brain power to find out how we can get it done. But we just have not bought into that because we have all these high-paid lobbyists who are saying, oh, not my insurance company might be damaged or my drug company might be damaged. Or my HMO might be damaged. So we can't change the system. We talked about in the last program how we can't change government because somebody's ox is gonna be gourd. And that's what's happened here. We got the status quo. But 47 million people need relief and need help and somebody ought to step forward and start doing something about it. But at least the discussion, a round of applause, I think, for everybody. It's started. You're right. But I am amazed at, and that's been my philosophy, but certainly not a universally shared philosophy. What does it mean to be in a civilized society? But the discussion is on the table and everybody is talking about it and there are lots of plans out there. And so there are still some rumblings about socialized medicine and so forth, but I think that's really gone by the way. Not completely, of course, but there was an article, an editorial in the Green Bay Press Gazette that was featured in the Plymouth Review this past week that I thought had a good suggestion, which is take, this is such a big discussion and it's such a huge allocation of everybody's resources. Take it out of the budget bill, make it a standalone bill, and there are tons of different permutations on that Senate plan. And some that are completely dramatically different, some that are much more government-oriented. But get it on the table and just have a high quality, high-powered debate about how we're gonna solve the problem. Small employers in all honesty, Cal, can't afford to cover their employees. I mean, any reasonable family plan these days is gonna cost between $12 and $1,500 a month. I mean, that's a whole different thing than paying a minimum wage, which I frankly think anybody can pay, five, 68 an hour, and then in a couple of years, 725, let's pay a living wage of $10 an hour. People can afford that, but $12 to $1,500 a month for, and that still has high out-of-pocket deductibles and that sort of thing. The system's not doing too well, and Medicare, I think, say what you will, has fixed a whole lot of problems and has made a lot of people very rich, but has also... Helped a lot of people. Provided, kept my mom alive. You know, without Medicare, my mom would have died at age 52, and she lived to be 78 and had a good life, and it's because of Medicare, and... And Medicaid. And medical assistance, you know. We think of it oftentimes as people on welfare, but most of your aged people, once their house is gone and their bank account's gone, if you're in a nursing home, some type of custodial type care, it's the government that's helping you out, so we made a system, take care of our elderly to work, and it takes care of people no matter whether you're injured, you know, at age 15, you're in a nursing home or whatever, somebody's taking care of you through medical assistance. Well, Kalin, I've been hopping up and down about this. You're rarely quiet. Any thoughts on this? Well, I think the reason why there's a discussion is because it is starting to hit everybody, and it's pitting people against people. I mean, the Shaboy Ginary School District teachers have really a very, very, very good medical policy. And then we have now a discussion in the city of Shaboy Ginary about possibly privatizing some services that's being discussed, and I suspect that it's not gonna make city of government more efficient.  They're moving a lot faster than I would be moving. They're working hard, so if there's gonna be money and savings being made, they're gonna do what the Shaboy Ginary School District is throw a lot of reasonably decent paid janitors out the door and replace it with minimum wage people with no benefits. So what we're having is literally, my concern is a race to the bottom, where all of a sudden public employees have to defend what was a reasonable health care package. Some can argue maybe we need higher deductibles and we need to make some fine tuning, but it's a race to the bottom where pretty soon the city employees won't have it and then they'll come after the teachers, and by the time we get done, you really, for lack of a better word, get a wise medical care in the county, in the city of Shaboy Ginary. What galls me a little bit is when you, and I know that the district doesn't talk much about this out loud, is that there are a lot of people in the private sector who beat up on public employee programs but are perfectly comfortable, and I've said this before in this show, perfectly comfortable funneling their own employees to those programs, and I find that pretty appalling. So I think eventually we're gonna probably try something like Massachusetts and see if it works as the first step toward trying to get coverage to everyone in a reasonable way. You know, Hillary got pilloried about, Hillary got pilloried, not bad, about her health care plan because it was so complicated. Well, it's a complicated thing, especially if you don't want socialized or one payment system, you just don't. If people don't wanna do that, they don't want everybody under Medicare, you're going to have to try to figure out a way to do it through employees, employers rather, and that means you gotta sort of look at certain employers differently than other employers because the small businesses can't afford it, and well, certainly large corporations can. And so it's gonna be complicated. And so I think Wisconsin will probably follow Massachusetts lead, that great conservative Republican Mitt Romney, newly born again, the conservative. Good man, good man. We'll see. But Republicans think he's a good man, but I really think we're gonna probably try some sort of, as Cal said, of an approach to be pretty much employer, assist employer, provide in health care with some subsidies for small businesses, some kind of a mix like that, and see if that works. But I think it is that you're bringing a huge political group, groups of political people with large amounts of money to bear. I have friends who are in the healthcare industry. They're spending their time, these sales reps are just spending gobs of money. It's good for Stefano and his restaurants. Entertaining people to push people to use drugs that they may or may not, well, they may or may not need their preferential treatment. And I can't tell you, oftentimes I walk in and I get samples of things. One of the lucky ones that actually gets inside the doctor's door and they say, well, can try this.  So the waste in the system is extraordinary. Only no one wants to confront that either. So. Well, it'll be interesting, but I think it should be a pullout discussion. And I think it could bring out the best in citizens. And I know I'm being a little bit polly-ish. I would ask, I mean, I just recently came across public employees and how much they contribute to their insurance, single digits. Where other maybe private sectors are double digits. When the public employees step forward and say, I'll contribute double digit on around a 20%. And maybe part of that goes to help fund a program like this. Then that'll be a good discussion. And since you're a public employee, that's not a problem. We're wrapping up. It's a very complicated issue because from the public employee's point of view, they negotiated those benefits in lieu of actual financial, especially in our case where we face a 3.8 cap.  And you make those conscious decisions at the invoicing table. All right. All I can say in closing is be careful what bridges you drive over. And hopefully we'll all gather together again next month to talk about other interesting issues. Thanks for joining us.


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Hi there, it's Sandy and today I thought I'd talk a little bit about basic masking. This is masking for stamping and I did a tiny tutorial on social media recently and lots of people really liked it and said the analogy works so I'm going to try to put that here on YouTube as well. So pretend there's some emojis that are lining up for a group photo. Those represent your stamps, which one is in the front and you need to figure out who's in the front and that is the first one that you're going to stamp. And then for the successive stamps, you need to mask that one out and find out which stamps are going to be right behind it, which are the next ones in line. And then you stamp those and then you mask those out and you stamp anything else that's behind it. And in this case it's silly emojis but consider this being stamps if you have a whole group of stamps that are trying to take a group photo and then one by one, when you peel off all those masks, you should end up, knock on wood, with something that looks right. Even though while all those masks are on, it looks kind of crazy and everything stamped over top of each other, this is how it should go. So make sure you're going from the front to the back. We all know how to set up a group photo. The tiniest kids are in the front, the tallest kids are in the back and everybody else is in the middle. Everybody's face needs to be showing so think about that when you're setting up your stamping for doing masking. Now I'm going to be using this stamp set coloring it over on the MFT channel but I thought I'd show you how I got it to this stage. I first lined everything up in the misty and what I tend to do is put the stamps on top of each other. If I want to do some layering, I layer it so I can see which stamp is in the front. The cat's going to be in the front. It's the smaller one. If I were to do in a group photo, it would be in the front row. So I'm going to peel off the dog and set it aside. You may want to check the alignment of the cat to make sure it didn't get kittywampus when it was laying on top of another stamp but you at least have the placement and you have room saved for the dog. So now we've got the girl and the cat lined up where we want them. So we need to create a mask because you're basically protecting the smallest kid in the group photo.  You can use a couple different methods for that. You can use a sticky note and if you're using a sticky note and then trimming it out, make sure that you use the sticky part on the stamp itself so that it sticks. The other way to do it is to use masking paper and I like this masking paper. It's about the stickiness of a sticky note, the whole sheet. I just tear off a sheet that's big enough for the image that I'm going to be stamping, put it over top and since everything's already in the misty, I can re-stamp in the same position and then I have my cat that I can trim out. On an image like this, you can fussy cut to your heart's content around those antlers. However, that is not actually required. You don't have to fussy cut every little detail. I'm just going to cut around in a general shape, leaving more of the white paper around the edge of those antlers because I didn't feel like fussy cutting them. That's not worth it in this particular instance and if you've got an image that is only going to touch part of it, say it's only going to touch the tail end of the cat, then just trim out the tail end. You don't need to detailedly fussy cut the rest of it, but for the sake of this one, I've got part of the dog coming out on one side, part of the dog coming out on the other, so I've got the cat fully cut out with just more white space around the outside edge of the antlers and I'll show you why that's okay. Now I'm going to line the dog up and making sure the dog's face shows just like any group photo and make sure it's not covered by the cat that is in front of it and then line it up, put the ink on it and stamp away and it looks messy when you do this. I realize that and confuses people, but it's just stamping over top of it. The cat is protected by the mask. So you can see here that the dog now appears to be behind the cat because it didn't stamp on top of there. This little edge right where the antlers are can be fixed easy with the line of a pen and when you've got a little edge like that, it's much easier to use a pen to fix it than it is to fussy cut all that kind of detail so don't make life harder on yourself. Now I decided I'm going to color this using colors from Beata's card that was sent in earlier this summer so you can see all of that coloring over on MFT's channel and I also want to let you know that there are a whole bunch of masking videos that are collected over on my blog. I'll put a link to that in the doobly-doo so you can check it out because I wanted to put all that into one location. All right, I will see you over on MFT's channel. Links for supplies here in the doobly-doo and I will see you again next time. Bye bye.


Appalachian Wireless is Appalachian Advantage. Unlimited text talk and two gigs of data for as low as $45 a month. Or, if you like, get five lines on eight gigs of data for just $145 a month. See store for details. Better service, bigger savings. That's today's Appalachian Wireless and East Kentucky Network Company. The Kerbet El-McCotter Biblical Artifact exhibit in Pikeville will close its doors for good on November 4th. A symposium at the University of Pikeville over the weekend offered an unofficial conclusion to the extended engagement. Archaeologists responsible for unearthing many of the artifacts on display in Pikeville spoke at the symposium and discussed the discovery process and how important those artifacts from the shallow dig site on display currently in Pikeville are to biblical history. Kerbet El-McCotter has been a runaway success. Co-organizer Tommy Chamberlain said more than 2,000 people have visited the exhibit since it opened. He said this weekend's symposium punctuated the exhibit, providing additional insight and knowledge. It actually brings the text to life. It helps us understand when they describe something in the text to kind of see it through the ancient writer's eyes. Instead of through the modern perspective, we get an idea of a much better idea of what they're describing. And with the success of Kerbet El-McCotter, organizers are planning a new exhibit, a mobile exhibit for Pikeville beginning next year. Another exhibit in Pikeville called The World of Jesus, how archaeology and artifacts illuminate the first century. We'll have somewhere between 30 to 50 artifacts from the first century Israel, circa the life of Christ, and we'll be looking at how these artifacts help us understand the New Testament, bring light to the documents. And one of the fascinating things about the way we're going to do things different in 2018 is a portion of that exhibit will be available for local church groups and community groups to book to actually bring to their church or their community center as opposed to having to come to one area to see it. There will be weekends that we will set it up in a central area here in Pikeville that someone can come and see it in a walk-through fashion, but the primary difference is that the exhibit can actually travel to other locations and it'll travel hopefully all over eastern Kentucky, West Virginia and Virginia and we are actually already have negotiations for it to also visit locations in Pennsylvania and Texas. Chamberlain said more information on next year's exhibit will be released at a later date. In Pikeville, Chris Anderson, EKB News.