いいね。またお会いしましょう。マーカーフォンをチェックしていますか?はい。今はチェックしていますか?はい。では、お見せください。はい。お見せください。お見せください。一旦、お見せください。そして、このリンクに 聞いてください。会談をしていただいたので皆さんは、では、コーディングを始めましょう。今日、だから、お会いしましょう。私は、アベーのモデルを 会いましょうか?今日は、またお会いしましょう。また?前回の台談から一年半が経ちましたWe originally had Audrey, an opportunity to come to Japan, but unfortunately you couldn't come during the Olympics and Paralympics.That's correct.I'm even wearing the team of the clothes that was part of our team of our Tokyo Olympic Team.マナイフを发言するため、私はまた何年かやっていきたいと思いました。いいですね。それは从来ない。これを見るといいと思います。どうも。来日は、バーツの顔のサイズの絵やこのVoriginalのコンサートでのこの絵の絵やこの絵やこの絵やこの絵のコンサートでの絵やこの絵やこの絵やこの絵やこの絵やこの絵。今度は、今回は、前回の3時間旅客も、最後に3時間でご視聴いただきました。はい。後で何も持っていないので、4時間、5時間で頑張ります。そうなった。おかしいな。ご視聴いただきました。5本くらい番組を作りたいと思います。5本くらい番組を作りたいと思います。サンさんは前回の対談の印象はいかがですか?最後のお話をお願いします。おかしいです。本当に良かったです。私はたくさん勉強しました。私たちが勉強しています。もちろん、私たちのリスポンスをしています。私たちのライフストリーミングをしています。そして、私たちのDGSのリプレイをしています。私たちは、私たちは、私たちは、私たちは、私たちは、私たちは、私たちの出会いの電話、私たちは、実際に、私たちは、私たちのi 번配をされている。おかしいな。それ、俺は約バナナの話 pasarby でおねがいします。お願いします。これでは前回のお話をお伺いします。来週もお話を嗎?俺が。では1つの答えを始めましょう。こっちまで炭酸を一人にお答えいただいて、最初の2つの答えは、オイチとヨイチとオイチをお答えします。最初の1つの答えは、毎日の答えです。最初の1つの答えは、最近の1つの答えは、とても美味しいです。最近の答えは、あっんぽかきとフクシムパセモンを食べたことは、とても美味しいです。今日のことは、とても美味しいです。とても美味しいです。とてもシアンスターだと、私は日曜日をオンとすると 既に言います、あなたは他にいた記憶がありますアンポ画家は素敵ですね大津家さんが私たちを好うと、彼にのイチを好んでいます明日はクリスマスイムですが、 子どものことをもらって嬉しいですあなたはあなたの子供にとって何をしていたのか?8年間、私はペン・ペーパー・ペンソルをプログラムしていました。後で、私の父親は私のコンピューターをプログラムしていたので、私は最高のプログラムをプログラムしていたので、私は今、コンピューターの質疑をしていません。あなたはプログラムをプログラムしていたので、 if you have something you have been possessing for a long for a long time can you show it to us?Yes.トランヌの引き收看の問題です。次の質問について。エージочкиの州をオンにする、テロップを見いてはいか謐に cured となりました。長い間使用しているような glass is for long timeYes, for at least 10 years or moreI've always wore the same style of glassThat is to say borderless, free of bordersEye glass without bordersAnd there's no fixed configurationOther than that it's borderlessInteresting, borderlessDo you have any specific meaning that you're givingTo this idea of borderless?Yes, I think when I focus on somethingI want to focus on death instead of the intermediaryThe eyeglass between me and deathSo the more invisible the intermediary isThe more authentic the experienceInteresting, thank you very muchSo we also had a lot of questions from our audience as wellSo we would like to proceed to those questionsSo what would you do if you can go to outer space?I've been virtually to outer space quite a bitMy favorite pastime is to observe the earthIn front of the vantage point of the International Space StationThat's indeed my first virtual reality experienceIt's on the star chart VRI believe on a galaxy VR deviceIt was 2016And what I do usually is just to look at earthSo no matter where I position myself in outer spaceAs long as earth is even just dimly visibleI always anchor myself to where earth isAnd then I feel saferAnd then I'm happy to then explore the rest of the galaxySo you've already been to earthIt's the answer of the questionYou've already been to the spaceThat's the answerYes, so that's like an overview effectOnce we view earth as this very fragile single thingInstead of being divided arbitrarilyBy the terrestrial borders and concernsAgain, we obtain this borderless feelingThat the earth is one holistic wholeIt's a organismThank you very muchAnd the next question isWhat is a comic that you like?What is a comic that I like?I did read the attack on titansI actually read it over just a couple of daysAfter the final episode gets publishedBecause I don't usually wait for new instalmentsSo I read as soon as it's published the entire thingSo it took me like two days to finish that in one runI think there's 32 volumes or soAnd you read it in two daysYes, since I read it very quicklyI don't do much other than reading the manga during those two daysWhat did you like about the attack of titans?Yes, I think it's a very serious comicActually, it portraysNot an arbitrarily good versus bad view on thingsBut shows that on the same historical interpretationThere's many possible vantage pointsThat areI wouldn't say equally validBut they are valid in their own routeThank youWe will ask you two more questionsWhat is a game that you like?Magic DecadentAh, we suspected soI think Ochaesan likes that game tooWhat is the nice points about Magic Decadent?We have to do something in only 7 cardsWhat do you think, Audrey?That we have to be very creative in just 60 cards60 pages, sorry, 60 cards in creativityand 7 cards to combatInterestingThat's how it goesInterestingWe'd like to see both of you playing the game togetherLet's playSure, let's playI don't have my deck with me downSo I have to be virtualSure thingAnd last year, Audrey would say he likes blueAnd Ochaesan would say he likes blue and blackSo do you agree?That sounds typicalSo why is it typical?Blue is an intellectual colorSo how?Probability-wiseRegarding what's comingDo you increase what's comingOr how do you control the gameThat's the main focus with blueAnd Ochaesan, you add black to thatYes?So I want to chip away at my life as wellAnd speed it upThat's how I like to do itSo you both use intellectAnd Ochaesan is betting his lifeYes, I get pretty close to the edgeYes, that's right, speedilyThat's rightAnd Tansan, blueYou think blue matches your style as a color?Yes, and I play blue also in a very slow fashionIt used to be that in my deckThe majority is what we call counterspellsWhich is not just we do nothingBut rather the other person does nothing as wellSo it's a deck about doing nothing for quite a whileI see. I'm not quite sure what you mean by doing nothingBut I'd like to see both of you do itYes, doing nothing is actually very importantWhy?Well, while you're not doing anythingYou have to keep taking from the 60 card deckYou take 53 cards, the game is overSo you go to the very limit and do nothingThat's very importantAnd the more the game proceedsEach turn what you can do increasesSo you wait really carefully and take timeI see, so you prepare and then in the end you attackI seeSo it's not like if you attack first, you winYes, there are three thingsAttack first and win, or you controlOr you use combinations, combosAnd you get the other person with your strategyAnd it's the second, the permission typeI seeWith table tennis, you're like the cut manI think I understandYes, I think I understandMaybe I don't, but I feel like I understandThank you for your explanationI hope to see the two of you battle it out somedayTan-san, do you believe in fortune telling?Of course, I believe in any beliefsWow, that's amazingSo if the fortune says something that's unfavorableYou don't mind?I wouldn't mind if I don't believe in itBut I believe in the power of believingSo basically I don't have to believe in any particular thingAs soon as I'm in a state of believingThen I believe that is what will go into heavenI see, Ochai-san was sayingHe believes in fortune telling as a customBut not in what's foretoldYes, that's rightSo they're like computers, reallySo you believe in the fact that there's powerIf you keep on repeating somethingIt becomes a customThank youTan-san, out of the holierWhat's your favorite day, Audrey-san?Well, I would say my birthday maybeApril 18th, because I get presents, I guessAnd also give presentsOh, on your birthday you give presents?Yes, basically it's aHobbit, I think, tradition from Lord of the Ringsちなみに先ほど伺った Ochai-san was also sayingYoyichi was saying he likes his birthday as wellYes, September the 16th9は3の事情で16は4の事情だから好きだったHe was saying he likes 9 because it's a 3 squaredAnd he likes 16 because it's 4 squaredRight, so from here we'd like both of you to answer the questionsAnd Ochai-san, I'd like to ask you questions that I didn't ask you beforeSo you were supposed to meet the other day, but you couldn'tIf you could really meet face to faceWhat would you bring as a gift to each other?Audrey-san, what would you bring for Ochai-san?My undivided attentionOchai-san, what would you bring?I think I would take a tea ceremony spoonI would carve it outBecause I learn a tea, the tea ceremonySo I take a tea ladleIn Japan we have attached roofs, they are traditional roofsAnd we sell themWe sell themWe sell themWe sell themAnd we sometimes get pieces of wood that have aged for 100 yearsAnd if you use them as a tea spoon, they look really nice as a colorSo that's what I'd like to bring, AudreyThat's greatSo next, let's have you meet in a tea roomThat would be goodAnd Yoichi, would you serve the tea please?Yes, I'm not very good, but I'd be happy toThank youAnd if you were able to go to each other's countryWhere would you take your counterpart?So Yoichi, where would you take Audrey?Let me seeRecently, right nowWhat feels really Japan would beKabukicho, maybeOr Akihabara, maybeI live in AkihabaraSo maybe I would take Audrey to Akihabara, I thinkHave you ever been there?No, I have notKihabara, there are electronic partsShow us this cartoon cultureThis magic gatheringEverything is stuffed in AkihabaraEverything JapaneseI think I've strolled through itMany, many years agoBut I've not spent a lot of time on itJust as a passer-bySo I would be happy to spend more timeYes, pleaseAnd Audrey, if Yoichi came to TaiwanWhere would you take him in Taipei or Taiwan?So my office at the social innovation labAnd it's also a parkWe tore down all the walls in a previous Air Force headquartersIt's also the cultural labWhere we have, for example, the sound speaker configurationThat can just close our eyes and be transposed to anywhere in the worldAnd so onAnd I have this feeling that you would like itI'd really love to goIn that respectMaybe Tansai should go to Ochi Aistan's labYes, please come to my lab at Tsukuba UniversityThere's a lot of strange things thereI have second lasers, robots, robot insectsYes, there are lasers flying aroundOr there are robot cockroachesSo we've got a lot of robots in the C-Lab as wellSo I think we'll maybe just do lab exchangesThat sounds goodYes, that would be funAnd next, I was going to ask you about Magic the GatheringBut you've answered that already, so I will skip thatSo if you were able to choose what to put on a new banknoteWho or what would you put on that banknote?After the Tokyo OlympicThere's a lot of people in TaiwanThat would really like this designThe tennis court with this label court one inWhich is kind of a deciding competitionIn the Tokyo Olympics for the Taiwan teamTo be made part of the coloring of banknotesAre really anything that's importantAnd I also put it on my cell phoneSo I think it is something that doesn't use any wordsBut unites the people in Taiwan togetherThanks to the Tokyo OlympicI seeSo is that a pattern that's something that derives in TaiwanOr could you explain a little more about the pattern?Yes certainlySo this is a replayWhere it showed that the landingUnder badminton court is actually a in ballAnd it decides the outcome of that particular competitionIt's a very famous pattern in Taiwan nowI seeSo it was inSo it proves that that shot was in the courtI seeThat's exactly rightYoyichi, in your case, what would you put on the new banknote?A QR codeSo you could do the blockchain contract address on the QR codeI often lose banknotesI keep on losing themAnd when I take banknotesTo pay 10,000 yen, it costs 20,000 yenThat would be nice if you had to print out a note to use it基本的にはデジタルだったSo basically if it was in a digital placeYou wouldn't be robbed or anythingBut I think we need to think about thisWell, even now, there are serial numbers on each banknoteBut I think a QR code would be bestSo it's like a traveler's checkBut it's backed by QR codeExactlyIf you have a QR codeThen you can attach the information or the banknote to that personAnd if you track that banknoteMaybe you can continue to track down who holds that banknote as well in the pastSo the next questionWas there a book that you would like to recommend that you read recently?Well, actually the book is right under my laptopAnd I'm not sure whether I can actually present itWithout disrupting the videoBut I can probably trySo yeah, this is Charles Legender's Notes of Travel InformosaAnd I've got both the Mandarin version and the English version hereAnd it has a lot of very beautiful maps and so onOf his travels in TaiwanAnd recently a novel based on thisWas introduced as a TV series in Taiwan, the SikaluAnd again, it won a pretty good acclaimOn the public TV in TaiwanSo I've been reading kind of the source bookFor that particular novel and the TV adaptationInterestingWhat do you see about Formosa or Taiwan through that book?There's a lot of different coaches around that timeThat where the indigenous nations for exampleSigned a peace accord with the US at the timeWhich was not taught in the history booksBack when I was a school childrenSo I learned to view the same historical periodFrom a lot more different angles and perspectivesAs compared to the Qing dynasty angleI'm more familiar with in the schoolsAnd so onSo I believe it has this transcultural educationalPedagogical value for a lot of people in TaiwanTo review the history from that particular point of viewInterestingSo Ochie-san, what is your book of recommendation?I'll be killing the Commendator by Haruki MurakamiSo I actually had a vacation out of the blueAnd the main character was actually in a hot springAnd I was also in a hot springSo I kind of felt some kind of destinyBetween the main character and myselfI read all the Haruki Murakami booksIt makes me feel like I want to speak JapaneseEven simple words like I'll eat a sandwich or let's drink coffeeAnd there's just like a very unique way of Haruki styleLet's saySo I like Haruki Murakami a lotI think there's a lot of things that can be simply explained in EnglishBut I like Japanese as wellEspecially after reading his booksBy the way, Audrey, have you ever read Haruki Murakami before?Yeah, one of my favorite novelistsWhen I was 15 or 16InterestingA lot of people read his books, like KafkaI think the first book I read was the hard-boiled wonderlandAt the end of the worldSingInterestingHaruki MurakamiThank you very muchSo we have two more questionsWas there something that you couldn't do in 2021And want to do in 2022?How about you, Audrey?Just visit JapanNiceVisiting Japan will be our wish as wellNext year, we do really hope that we can meet you in personI agreeSo even in this program, it'll be really great if we can feature both of you againBy the wayHow about you, Audrey?Well, I actually did most of the things that I wanted to do this yearThe world has been much easier to live than 2020I've been making teaI've been making tea while doing teleconferencesI'm living with a cat2020 was not entirely accustomed to the rituals of the online wayBut I think it became much more easier to liveIt's a pity that I can't go to abroadBut also bringing my exhibition on to abroadI've been using remote ways and remote instructionsSo it has been traveling around me although I haven't been thereSo in that sense, 2021 has been much more convenient to me than in 2020I would love to go to TaiwanBut I guess we're not so far awaySo I hope I can go very soonBy the way, AudreyThere's something that you've seen around the changes between 2020 and 2021I actually feel that it has become much more convenientCompared to 2020 to 2021And everybody has been more accustomed to the digitalWhat do you think?Yeah, definitelyAnd all the wrinkles in video conferencing, tele-meeting, tele-health, and tele-education softwareHas been worked out by largely trial and error last yearThis year, it's a much more comfortable safe spaceFor people to engage each other on the digital spacesI can slowly go into the main topics of todayWhat do you think about these changes, Ojiya-san?Well, I think it's aboutWe don't understand the convivial aspects of lifeUnless we meet face in faceIt's always important to have that interactionBut also, if you have an intellectual conversationOr in other words, connecting the brain and the brainAudio visual is very strongBut when it comes to physical, it's a bit differentIf we are humans, the animal aspect of humansThen we have to meet face in faceBut in a way, humanity and the animality, let's saySo to speak, are a bit differentI think human comes in 70%And humanity comes in 30% maybeThe animal is 30%And the humans are 30%So I think the animal part has to beComprehended with the convivial aspect of lifeSo, AudreyEngage that we are able to have this online situationWhat do you think is the importance in meeting face to face?So that we can have undivided attentionI totally agree that at this momentWhen we're meeting intellectuallyOver video conference, at mostI can master less than one third of my attentionAnd the other two thirds is being dividedTo the camera crewTo my immediate surroundingsAnd things like thatI can't help but be divided this wayBecause as we have already discussedThe animal part and the intellectual partIs not in a completed puzzleBut once we have met face to faceWith undivided attentionThen, of course, when we return to different placesAnd then we rejoin through video conferenceWe can complete the GestaltThe unspoken parts togetherUsing our mental models of each otherAnd it will still feel convivialThe unspoken words, like you mentionedLike meeting the eyes and sensing each otherThe animal human and the intellectual humanAnd these not being integratedIs exactly what I thinkWhen you think of it in a virtual placeIt seems integrated but in reality it is notSo not an avatarBut actually there should be a placeWhere the digital and physical is really mergedThat seems to be something as an important topicI think it is very importantWhich Audrey pointed outBetween the not being able to integrateThe animal aspect and the intellectual aspect of humanThe undivided aspect is very importantLastly, if you would express 2021Using one word or one characterWhat would you use Audrey?Didn't we do that before last yearSo this time I think I'll use this wordZero againYeah, but it's capitalizedThe uppercase zeroWhy is it uppercase?As we have seen thatOur understanding of the digital realmThe zero and one realmIt has been promoted to a degreeWhere it's now interwoven in our daily lifeIt's no longer a lowercase zeroThat seems strange and newBut rather people have acceptedThat this is part of the normalI seeThat's interestingOn Yoichi, you were saying earlierWhich word would you use?I would use well-beingBountifulI hope everyone enjoys well-beingEveryone is starting to choose well-beingDepending on the digital partBefore the digital partSome people didn't have enough resolution Others didOnly some people are able to use digitalBut now that the infrastructure is readySchools are using digitalWorkplaces are using digitalAnd personallyI am spending my time very comfortablySo I think that the well-being is goodAnd there's a new kind of well-beingThat everyone has been able to findAnd this well-beingThanks to digital reaching everyoneMaybe that's whyYes, there are lots of things like thatSo I often do research at universityOn the diversity of bodiesLike wheelchairs and artificial limbsAnd people with seeing or hearing disabilitiesSo people have problems regarding mobilityThey can work from homeAnd seeing disabilitiesAnd there are lots of reading toolsAnd people with hearing disabilitiesYou can add captions for themSo in that wayPuting is now closer to human bodiesAnd the infrastructure is now in place quite a lotSo in daily life to hold meetingsMost of what we need has now become possibleThanks to digital toolsI seeSo digital has brought about well-beingYes, digital and the physicalHave maybe worked togetherThey have affinity for each otherOr maybe we have become accustomed to it moreThat's rightSo remote meetings regarding them as wellLike a yoichi and orderingYou've been using them for a long timeBut ordinary people like usWe didn't really use themBut now we're using them every dayWithout thinking about itSo there has been rapid progressOf courseWe should not be happy about COVID-19But thanks to COVIDThings have accelerated, I thinkSo what do you think, Audrey?Yes, I think the internet was builtFor this scenarioWhere people are relatively isolatedFrom one another physicallyOf course they declared thatIt's a design for a post-nuclear situationSo not exactly the same as COVID-19But the internet hasThe definite design sketchesAnd briefsSo that it can reconfigure itselfAs something like thisIs being required from theInternational societySo thanks to the internetWe have formed a global neighborhoodNot measured in physical distancesBut rather in shared experiences and valuesThat's true, I seeMore than my grandfather and grandmotherI meet yoichi more oftenAnd maybe we can meet Audrey more often tooDefinitelyThank youNow, let's change gearsAnd move into the individual themesAnd I'd like to show you a slideI couldn't play the first videoThat you sent meSo it will be my first timeI seeI seeI seeSo maybe we need to share the videos as wellYou weren't able to see itI see, sorrySo were you unable to see the long video?I saw the video about the weddingBetween seeing impaired peopleAnd the work and so onSo that video played fineBut the first one I couldn't play itあともう2つあるんですかThere are actually two more videosThe third one about Albert Einstein'sTravel to Japan, right?That place, okaySo just the first one was missingI understandOkay, so later on we'll have you take a look at thatOkaySo Kaku-san, can you hear me?Kaku-san?HelloNo?Oh could you give us a moment please?So the coordinator Kaku-sanWho's on your sideI have sent Kaku-san a video over lineAnd maybe you can look at it on the smartphoneOkayThank youOkay, so can you see the screen that I'm sharing?YesSo we're in year 3 of COVID-19We want to think about the childrenAnd actuallyBefore this talk sessionWe had a briefing with YoichiAnd we said grown-upsRegarding wearing masksThe grown-ups understandAnd they are using the masksBut the childrenThey're just being told to do soThey're being told to obeyAnd they're just being obedientI think that's what's happening with lots of childrenSo maybe we should do something about thisThat was the suggestion by YoichiAnd we looked at the questionnaire surveyThere's a questionnaire survey like thisYoichi, can you see the screen?Actually the screen is very hard to seeYeah, I tried to pin your screen sharingAnd then within just a couple seconds it's goneSo I'm not seeing anything now今ね画面中でループ画面にYeah, it's like a loop screen right nowI'm having problems tooOh, could you give us a moment, please?Let's see what we can doSure, of courseYeah, this is the digital equivalentOf talking about bad weatherLike it's raining or somethingOh, it's raining todayThat kind of thingCan you see?That's rightI can see betterOkay, yeahYeah, it's not the whole screenYou can seeYesOkay, I'm not sure why you can only seeBut let's just go ahead with thisSo with COVID-19In JapanThere's the National Center for Child Health and DevelopmentAnd they've continued to hold questionnaire surveysAmong childrenAnd the results showThat they surveyed around 1300 childrenAnd do you feel stressed today?70% of the children saidYes, they feel stressedAnd back in 2020At the same time73% of children saidThey feel stressedSo there's not much improvementAnd right nowIn the red boxCan you see?You're each yearOr do you can see?So there are children who say things like thisWhen will COVID-19 be over?I'm going to be a grown-up in no timeI was born in an era like thisIt can't be helpedThat's what my parents saySo how can I feel more cheerfulBoth in mind and bodySo in response to this childAnd for the children who say they feel stressHow can we respond to them?How can we respond to the children?Could you give us some ideas?Audrey, what do you think?This, yeahJust before the summer vacationThere was also a couple monthsThat the children in TaiwanThey were doing tele-educationBecause of a sudden spikeOf course now we're back at zero COVIDSo for the next, for the second semesterThere's no longer telecommunicationBut it was a moment of panicDuring that timeAnd so what we have said essentiallyIs just to take their timeMeaning that instead of having to completeAny assignment over the internetSuddenly when the teacher themselvesStill being adjustedTo the new communication infrastructureWe need to at last let the childrenTake where they want to goIn terms of learningIn terms of the project they want to doOr if they just need some timeTo accommodate to the new realityAnd so onBecause over the screenThere's really no way to enforce classroomOr for this teacher who are stillBeing adjusted to the new situationsSo we have seen a lot of reportsThat the children are taking more autonomyAt deciding what to do with their timeWhat to do with your classWhat to do with the projectThey want to pursueNow of course they're back to the classroomBut I think these couple months of autonomyIs actually an empowering experienceBecause whatever isolation and suffering they hadIt's not them aloneEverybody else including their teachersHad the same suffering experienceSo that could become the social objectAround which the children's leadThe way to how to overcomeOr adapt to that instead of being taughtWhat's the standard answerTo the existing societyRight so the children have to thinkFor themselves and adapt in their own waysSo Ioichi what do you thinkAbout the children of JapanThey think that they will becomeAbout soonThey have to adapt with the current situationWhat would be your answerWell let's seeIn my timeWe had some school trips, excursionsWe had some cultural festivalsWe had sports festivalsStarting from primary schoolMid school and high schoolAnd they were very important eventsDuring my youthWhen I see my childMy childrenI say I call them economical nomadsThere was a media artistNamjun PaikThis is a word that he mentionedWe are living in a certain spaceBut we are actually economicallyAnd digitally moving around nomadsSo we can do online gamesAnd always communicating with 10 or 20 peopleThis is something that we can witnessIn everyday lifeThere is a networkIn a life-minded peopleAnd we can become friends with everybodyAnd I think that has beenBecome much more popularAnd well seen than my timeBut I think there were alsoAn important aspect about being youthIs connecting through comicsAnd games as wellAnd this can be similarTo what the youth are experiencing at the momentBut there's also some friendshipIn these excursionsAnd travels and eventsWhich can sometimes beThis is something that they are lackingWhen we think about the post-COVID cultureThis is something that we will be creatingWe have to think about the new literatureWe need to think about the new drama, games, designAnd there will be emergingAnd I think there's a lot of chancesSo in other wordsIf we think from a different perspectiveThey have been adaptingTo the current situationMuch faster than the adultsAnd can think and createAbout new thingsSo we might actually be enviedBy the people who haven't experienced this timeI think that is actually a really nice perspectiveEspecially for us who think about the pastWe might think about it asWe want to go backI do not want to go back at allSo maybe Ochya-san might be leading the youthI just want to be in the meetingWhile petting my catOkaySo we can actually give a message to the childrenThat this is actually an opportunityThat we can think of new thingsAudrey, what do you say about this idea?I think it's a really good ideaAs I said, the global neighborhoodCentered around common valuesAllows children to make global impactMuch better than the previous eraWhere they can make maybe neighborhood impactSo I think I totally agreeThat we're now all time zone travelersIf not time travelersThat we can just a little bitAdjusting of sleeping betterEnables to connect to any point on the earthSo planetary scale communityI believe is the realityUpon which our new generationAre being contributed upon their own worksSchools and so onThey are all taking this initiative digitallySo as I say to manyVideo conference meeting participantsI always say, I'm mute yourselfAnd I believe that COVID-19Provides a chance for childrenAnd really everyoneWho were previously confined in their neighborhoodAre communities to contributeTo a global community and mute themselvesInterestingIf you mute, we are always silentBut if we have a muteWe have these soundsAnd that's also something of contributionAnd I think that's very interestingEspecially if education is something that is givenThen the blocksOr the differences between countriesBecome vividBut if we don't have thisThen this community can emergeSo I myself, I lost opportunitiesTo go to academic conferencesI went to IndiaAnd I had to take a long way on the planeBut now I just have to take one minute to switchFrom being into Japan to IndiaAnd those kind of opportunities have increasedBy the way, AudreyI think you've been...How many countries have you virtuallyOr digitally traveled in the past year?I lost countBut physically, it took meBack when I was 25 years oldI needed to travel to 20 citiesAnd do some work there on computer scienceBut I can probably count 20Different countries that I've been toVirtually in just the past couple of weeksSo obviously, it's a very different configurationIndeed, in the physical worldThere's this idea of attenuationWhen you speak, if somebody is distanced awayThey can't hear you very wellBut I now hear you perfectlySo we're really indeedOnly constrained by our time zonesAnd I nowadays dedicateMy 7AM, around 7AM timeTo the east coast of North AmericaAnd South AmericaAnd 7PM to Europe and AfricaAnd the time in between, of courseIt was just like moving in the time zoneSo I always have this ideaOf me kind of time zone travelingAnd the day revolves in TaiwanI was imagining myselfJust traveling to different spots in the worldSo I think the spin of the sunExcuse me, the spin of the earthIs actually how you go aroundWith the spin of the sun as wellIf you had a mileage fundThen you will have a lot of mileage points by nowNiceA state of emergencyAnd when we can't accessConventional educationAnd how the children react to this situationAnd there might be new types ofEducations that may emergeSo the first video isAn example from the pastSo we would like Hakusan to showAudrey the video, if possibleOkay, so let me view the video nowOkay, on her laptop, I believeOkay, so we will be showing the video nowSo, Yoichi, you actually gaveThe editorial staff, per seAbout different topics likeEducation after the plague and so forthNow we would like to see one example from that timeOkay, so just to make sureIt's the picture of today videoLike this oneOkay, okaySo I'm now viewing it現在の地面体制を学法はなぜ変えようとしないか教師は自己関心社会の矛盾に立ち向かいなど彼らの学校側への要求は数え切れないことは先生は地検お前ですどうなの?この学校は入ってくれないか地検体制足りたないですか地検体制かダメだってことで言っている先生がいるかな今まで地面体制反応をね自由上に押しちゃった先生はいないかむしろそれでも私が地面体制の実績的な推進者でわかったですそれは私の前で正直に見とれますその反省の上に立って進学するというものを今完全に現点というものに戻して考えていきたいと言うことなんです次、結婚式に帰ったのも初めてですしこういったテクノロジー学をして障害にある人が一緒に活動できるというのは一緒になって生まれました無闇に残してなっても動くだったらやっているかとしてはそのほうが勉強を見たりやすくやりやすくなんか15歩のすぐに作業は何変なのか聞かれた人がいるのかあれもいいなというふうに言います自分の通りモダッフォーなテクノロジーの人たちが結婚式にお参りをしてお家族とチアーさんの時間が過ごしてもらえるようにあとに続いてくれたら嬉しいなというふうに本当に心からでで止めてくださいはいお茶屋さんお題をいただいてお題の前にお伝えもどういうお伝えもどういうという事があったんだってことを調べてくれて調べてくれてそれを調べてくれて調べてくれてお伝えも調べてくれてために、私たちの学生の受入れに特別な諦めを絞ります。最初に、開�の表現をするだけで応援することになりました。今、私たちは、研究問をしていることで、それをマッシュアル、学生について教えてくれました。私はそれを知らなくて、日本の一部の東京は、メースの高い数字の、最高の入校の examを 入ったのです。そのため、たくさんの人が目標を押すと、 人口の空間のリストが変わります。そのため、その前に、 入校の examを変えた時にリストが変わる。そのため、とても良いことは 起きました。そのため、人口のリストが変わり、 とても違いませんでした。でも、今、僕は分かっている。そのため 経験が行われていなかったのは senior school students were able to raise their voices and change the entrance examそして経験を変えたのは懐かしません では何を意味にできるかの理解はわかりませんみんなは明らかに考えたことがありますみんなは 勉強していました以上のイニシーエーションは 通りの考え方でありませんこのイニシーエーションは 日本の教育系の中で生まれることがありますand when you think about that, if that's gone, then for them, what they can believe in in society collapses.So something that collapses like that, being the basis or foundations of being made to obey and being made to participate in society, of course they're going to be sick of it.And yes, so towards the end, they talked about a challenge from a new era. I think that's good.It's 1971, but in 1972 they talked about the limits of growth, the people talked about resources.So when you think about that, the population back then, it was said that the population would explode, explosively increase, and there would not be enough food, and the burden on the environment would be large,which means that just gaining knowledge, memorizing, would not be enough. You need to think about what to do.So the Ministry of Education seems very stuffy, but they came up with a 4.6 report, and this is called a really good, it's like a wall that's difficult to overcome.So the country too, the government seemed unable to change, but they were able to change, coming up with a 4.6 report, so they still had energy back then.That's right, Japan still had energy. I see.Now Audrey, we want to ask you as well.So this kind of anger, so using anger to change society on the part of young people.So in Japan, it's sometimes difficult.It doesn't really happen. People say, even if you're angry, it's not going to change anything.Now Audrey, in your book, you talk about how the power of anger can be effective, so could you tell us why you say so?Sure.So to channel anger into collective action requires us to think differently about outrage.Previously people act upon outrage through discrimination maybe, through revenge maybe, and these are of course very destructive outlets of outrage that does not bring about real change.But if we channel that outrage, that social outrage into preventing something bad from happening again, then that change, that change everything, right?The angle of let's prevent something injustice from happening ever again brings out the best of people so that we can become a co-creative culture and community around this very pertinent question of feeling, of course, the suffering together.But then channeling the outrage so that we don't have to suffer exactly the same as before.So Yoichi, we're talking about how young people need to think more about solidarity working together.And TikTok, they tend to consume, they tend to do the same thing, that's what young people are doing.But maybe they can get hints from young people back then, because they could do it, don't you think so?This is actually more than how do we do it.It's more like when the grown-ups don't understand the young people should take the move and change things.They should take advantage of it.When the grown-ups don't have the answers, it's making quick action is probably the answer.With an existing system, they're like dykes or castle walls.They're from the ground and they're quite high and they don't move.But if there's an earthquake or if there's a natural disaster, then they will move in the same way.If the grown-ups cannot imagine something and that happens, then the young people tend to have a lot of power.So regarding the current situation, grown-ups do not know what's going to happen with COVID-19.So grown-ups have a weak standpoint.So they don't have strong foundations.So the young people, if they take action, they might win.That's true.So there's an opportunity.That's true.That's interesting.And Audrey, too, I think it was the same.There was the sunflower students movement.And we never thought students would be able to change things like that.But because they were young, they were able to do it.Did you feel that?What do you think?Because they were young?That they were able to do it?Yes, certainly.And also it demonstrates what I mean by demonstrating in a constructive way.Because the protest was not to demonstrate against the sudden passing of a trade agreement without consultation.But rather it's a demonstration with the people to how to deliberate about that very trade agreement with half a million people on the street and many more online.So to prevent something from happening again, it's not to destroy the parliament building.Of course, that will never lead anywhere.But rather to use the occupied parliament building to show what a well-functioning listening skill configuration would be like.So that in the future, the people who are legislators can feel more naturally in consulting the people before passing anything like that a trade deal.So it leads directly to nowadays this year, the Open Parliament National Action Plan, which was signed by all the major parties in our parliament.So it proves that a positive demonstration changes the norm around things.I see.So demonstrations, people come together and they go, ah, but you imagine that.But Audrey, you're saying that hashtag is the same kind of thing.I think you said that somewhere.You're saying hashtags going forward are going to be very important.So the importance of hashtags.I read in your book, but once again under COVID-19, when people cannot come together, what do you think about the importance of hashtags?Could you give us some enlightenment, please?Definitely.So through hashtags, people can form communities with complete strangers in different time zones that happens to care about the same thing.So it allows people to discover new friends through shared values and new shared values through those newly made friends.And it can be done in a way without any active curation.Anyone can mutate a hashtag into some even more viral form of hashtag by including the old hashtag and the new one together in the same posting.So it also allows ideas to evolve over time to find a common ground between the different kinds of communities.And it also has what we call network making power.I see, I understand.So that kind of thing.You're actually the young people seem to be very good at that kind of thing.Yes, in the olden days, when we didn't have digital movements, you had to get together physically.You had to use physical force to do something.That was all that you could do.But what's interesting about hashtags is there are hyperlinks.And with hyperlinks, a collection of hyperlinks.So the hyperlink before and the hyperlink afterwards, you can rewrite them.And this is, you don't have to be in the same place.You can stay linked or connected.And you can overcome time and space.And even if these spaces are not synchronized, you can still get the hyperlink.So it's very internet-like.It's very web-like.You see, you can change the link.So what links are happening depending on the human's intellectual productivity changes.So with papers, it's important to quote.With culture, it's important what you inherit.And with entertainment, it's important what you're influenced by and what you influence.So the substance is the link structure, the network,which means that the power of words and linking links, the hyperlink is perfect.I see.So going forward, the young people will be linked through hyperlinks.It's hyperlinks are good.It's difficult to do things any other way.With images, it's difficult to do things with images.But with words, words still have power.That's interesting.Thank you.So I think I was able to hear lots of good things about education.So maybe we should move on.So after the tests, well, education,the word education are actually not a very good word.Because learning might be better rather than education.So it shouldn't be education.If you're learning, why do you say that?Because education is like initiation, like I said before, or a common foundation of society is going to be installed in people.But they don't have to be installed, I think.You should voluntarily go after it.That's very interesting.So it can actually change.To fully learn is only happened after the COVID-19.Regarding,not education, but actually learning,we'd like to talk about the intellectual responses after the plague.We found an interesting paper,which we would like to show,but somehow it's not showing at the moment.Please give us a moment.Somehow my sharing system is not working.I think you just have to share the desktop again,and then enlarge the screen, maybe.So sorry, one more minute.I think the two interviewees we have today are much more familiar withthan the system than myself, but slowly making it.It's okay, as I said, I don't have anything afterward.So we're not rushing in time.Take as much time as you want.It's all blue and no black.That is so cool.I'm becoming your fan.So let's see the educational and intellectual responsesafter the plague.There was an interesting paper from theOducane University.So I have a question,actually a quiz,for Yoichi.From 1346 to 53,it decreased the population to one third.I think you know about this very well.There is something related to intellectual culturethat has grown.What do you think it is?Bads,paintings, portraits.There has been something that were only 30in the past 300 years,but it has grown to up to 15.Maybe it's clocks,clock towers.Something close to clock towers.Something that increased.I'm still reading the paper.Reading the paper,amazing.Is it fountains?I'm going to show the...Wow,you're reading the paper.That is amazing.I'm actually very surprised.I think it has 100 pages maybe.But I'm going to show the answer.It's universities.So,only 258 years,in the past 258 years,only around 30 universities.But in the post plague era,12 universities were added.After that,it kept on increasing.It was only existing in the Mediterranean areas.It was started to be established in Prague,in Vienna,and in this paper,it expresses the influence of the plague.Why so?There was this sense of retrieving something that has been lost,and there was a king that specifically spoken about this.So,he started to establish a lot of universities around his area.And now we would like to cite from his sayings,which we will see on the screen.I think we can see the screen at the moment.Let's see if we can move the screen to show the quote from our king.Somehow,it's not moving well today.It is a rainy day.Is there a way for me to not show the screens?I think we can see.So,these are the quotes.Most famous knowledge have not beendragged down to the pit throughout the world's crimesby the odious madness of pestilence.So,what we had,I think there were many people and leaders who began to think aboutwhat should we make after such a catastrophe.And then,Karl IV from the Holy Roman Empire thought to make universities.And actually,after that,although many people died in Europe,there were many universities which influenced the Renaissance.So,the state of emergency.The youth began to lay importance in learning about the cutting edge.And the king actually thought in the same way.So,yoji,you are a teacher at university.I think we wanted to bring this example to highlight your perspectiveon the importance of the high education as well.What do you think about this?Well,it's not about giving education.It's about a place to make a dialogue with the people who are doingthe most cutting edge or tackling the most cutting edge topics.When you think about the textbooks,you have to learn what is already set.And maybe that could happen if you were an undergrad.But it's not about explaining the textbook.There are things that are not on the textbook or almost going to be on the textbook.And it's about the dialogue that happens in that periphery.And that's the most important part.When we say about the current function of universitiesand compared with the past universities,the point was about talking with Socrates or with Aristotle.So,there is a big difference in the culture between the universities back thenand the universities of the current.And it's more about,in the past it was more about the joy of the intellectualand the knowledge.But now it's more about preserving and documenting.In my head,I have an image of a library.So,when we think about the accumulation of knowledgeand the importance of it,at the age where people,many,many people have lost their lives,the importance of sharing such knowledge through the accumulation seems to be more important.When we think about the cutting edge learningand laying importance at the time of emergency,we think about this perspective,Audrey.I think of the open access movementand how the cutting edge researchers and their institutionsfreed up from copyright intellectual property,everything related to COVID-19,so that people can develop vaccines at an unprecedented speedand also understand the virus and its mutation much better.So,I totally agree that this is not abouttheand precisely because it's of common urgency to all.And I think this common urgency is what enablesto basically revive and grow through our collectivewill to survive and build back better,I guess,in a resilient fashion.I see. Sharing knowledgeand grasping the cutting edge through open access.This is not a critique,but when we think aboutStanford University where they have to be veryexpansive tuition and learning the cutting edge,that's one way of learning.And I think there is some degree of respecttowards that sense of cutting edge,but at the same time we need to think about how to openand democratize this open access towards the cutting edgeinformation,I think.Well,we always say that we are in the ivory towerand we professors are living in the ivory towerand there is some sort of truth in that.But when we think that of how many people are readingpapers and doing peer reviews and having a much morein-depth knowledge due to this open access.What I want to say here is,I don't think knowledge can beunderstood easily.Well,actually,excuse me,I think there are increasingpeople who think that knowledge can be understood easily.But,you know,it was first of all hard to access papers,but now it has become much more easier to access papers,which kind of creates a misunderstanding thatknowledge can,although it's accessible,it doesn't necessarily mean that it's understandable.So,there's a lot of junior high school students whoreadpapers that cannot be understood by adults,for example.That has been preserved in the ivory towerbut now it's becoming a live paper or a live study.And I think there's one influence from the COVID as well.What is effective?And after that,if there are misinformation about how thevaccination is actually effective or not.This kind of information is not provided from the ivory tower.Regarding the COVID-19 vaccination information,it was spread very fast,and also the misinformation wascorrected very,at a very fast time.There is,when there was,when such misinformation werecorrected properly,then that accumulates in that wayas a verification method,but on the other end,if there are some misinformation that are not verified,then that also is accumulated at that spot as well.So,I think we have to deal with the situation,too.Thank you.So,in that respect,let me share the screen again,see if I can do that.Here we go.Hope this works.Yes.I apologize for the slow screen.So,in that respect,children who feel stress,there were 70% of them,but on the other hand,doing lessons online,more than 50%,53% said if you had to say,they were happy to be receiving online courses,and to be more specific,the reasons were you can be connected in a waythat's different from before,or when you make presentations,you don't have to feel tense,or I'm not going to school right now,so I can catch up,or I'm transgender,and I don't have to wear the uniform skirt.So,there were children who said this.So,this kind of new things,new learning methods,and children becoming accustomed to this.So,like Yoichi was saying,it's very close to what you were saying,but going forward.So,children are back in school.So,how can we aim for a hybrid thing in a better way?Yoichi,what do you think regarding aiming for hybrid?Well,aiming for hybrid is difficult,I think personally,because in one classroom,it's going to be difficult.So,rather than go hybrid in the region,it's okay to have online schools and physical schools,and be free to go to either,that you want to go to.That should be the way that makes it easier to form the curriculum.So,the online children and the physical classroom children,treating them in the same way is difficult.So,let's ask from online,you can change the phase,you have to do that.To give people the opportunity to speak up.So,recognition wise,it feels a bit uncomfortable.Animal wise,you don't really understand,but intellectually,you understand how it moves forward.That will be the situation,which is not very good.Which means that everyone maybe should be taken online,and then there should be the physical locations,and maybe by semester,you should be able to go back and forth.So,the way you create the classrooms needs to be redesigned.By the way,with the seminars or with the lectures,you do both,like seminars face to face,and the lectures online,or I do everything online.Well,you can physically do the experiments,or have sleepovers,or having boot camps.Physical is better,you can communicate much more,but other than that,everything should be online.Intellectually,it's easier to do.Audrey,so,learning too.Online,there's a lot you can do.In the case of Japan,the online period was quite long.So,lots of children,50% say online is better,and I think you can probably see,there are children who say they don't like it.They prefer face to face,about 40%.And Yoichi was saying,maybe we should just separate the schools,maybe that's viable,too.Audrey,what do you think?Well,I think every child has different preferred methods of learning.There are people who are very hands-on,and require this social relational context in order to make sense of the knowledge.And there are people who are highly symbolic,who prefer a more abstract way of consuming the same information and so on.And so,I think it ultimately boils down to the freedom to design the way to interact with each other.And this is what I call assistive intelligence,right?It's not a AI in terms of the authoritarian top-down way of requiring everyone to adapt to the pace of technology,but a series of components like Lego blocks and so on.So,everyone in the classroom should feel comfortable to collaboratively design their interaction patterns together using well-known blocks that they can set up themselves without being over-determined by any top-down educational planner.So,I do believe that this assistive tool chain-based way of learning is what makes sense to the group,makes sense.If you had to say,we talked about online,but if the children are allowed to choose,they probably will be able to choose,I think.Yes,I think they can choose.They can do that.That would be interesting too,right?So,I prefer the physical,I prefer the online or this semester it's going to be physical,this semester it's going to be online.Is that what you're saying?To be honest.So,children,physically,they enjoy the physical,they have a good time,and that part of physical and then take everything else online,then I think people will be convinced,make the fun part physical,keep it physical.So,there's the physical learning and the intellectual learning and the parts that's fun,they're different.So,pe and crafts,that should be physical,and eating lunch together too is important,I think.So,what do you need to share?We need to think about that a little more.That's too.But having said so,with an ordinary class,just seeing each other eye to eye is fun as well.And recently,the students speak to each other before we were not allowed to chat during class,but now,children talk to each other.I understand,thank you.Right.So,let's end that theme and move on.And we're very happy you have a lot of time.Let's do just one more block and then take a break.Now,next.So,this is not the opposite,but aging.Aging actually could be an opportunity.So,we're going from children to elderly people.In Japan and Taiwan,aging is moving forward,and in Japan,from 2022,the baby boomers are going to have the largest share of society.They're 75 years old,and the insurance burden is getting larger,and the population is decreasing.So,welfare,the economy may break down.Lots of people have a bad scenario they depict.But on the other hand,Yorichi was saying around the year 2100,when you think about the world,the fact that Japan is now seeing a declining birth rate is a good thing,and we ran out of time.So,when you think aboutthe year 2100,specifically,what good points are there about Japan seeing a declining birth rate and aging?So,Yorichi,around the year 2100,you were saying?Yes,Japan is now seeing a declining birth rate and may be a good thing.Well,all over the world,countries are seeing a declining birth rate and declining population.So,the life infrastructure,once it's in place,it's going to bestatistically wise,is going to be supported around that time 2100,which means globally Japan has experienced aging first,and Italy may be in Germany as well,they're experiencing this ahead of the others.So,countries like this,regard in an aging society,how do you redo the infrastructure,when you think about that?I think it's an opportunity.And probably,and depends on how you think about this,the environment,the environment or lifestyles depending on this,human beings have probably changed the number of people that exist.The 21st century,the population has continued to increase,and a scenario where the population decreases is also possible.So,we'll see a kind of acontraction of the population,and the burden on the environment,once the population is at an appropriate scale,people start to think about that,to alleviate the burden on the environment,which means,when that happens,we see a certain level of aging,and the aging,in a cycle of 100 years,200 years,the pyramid will probably stabilize,which means thatI think we are now at the entrance of that.So,the next several hundred years,probably,is the entrance period.So,doing this ahead of the others means thatwe understand a lot of things,and it may make things fun.So,relatively speaking,supporting that kind of thing,nursing care,welfare,people tend to think about this as a burdensome,but there may be business opportunities,that's what you're saying,yoichi.And from Japan,there are things thatwe can discover,so,you do research.Oh,me?Well,I am interested in people with disabilities,imperiments,and welfare.So,I'm not quite sure ifthe Japanese brand will sell.Lots of countries have their ownlocal issues that they are trying to support locally,but having said so from that perspective,theinteresting inner growth,the inner demand will become more lively,withcertainty.And this will create new industries.There's no mistake there.I see.Asyoichi was saying,we heard from him for a bit of a long stretch,and Taiwan actually,maybe second to Japan,you're seeing aging society and declining birth rate.And some people think of this as negative,but in one respect.When you think about the history of mankind,maybe Taiwan isahead.And maybe new industries can be born.That's whatyoichi was saying.So,regarding this,Audrey,what do you think?Well,Taiwan is one of themost dense place in the world when it comes topopulation.So,it's veryeasy to overtax the environment.So,we have this idea,of course,of Earth overshould today,right?So,every year,before the end,finishes.We use up theregenerative resources that Earth could produce,and that's as a planet.And so,of course,a lot of people working on regenerative economy,circular economy,and so on,try to kind ofreduce the energy use,and so on.So,it's more effective,but if the population continue to grow exponentially,then it creates a natural tension with the nature,of course.So,I do think that declining population gives the environment more breathing room,so to speak.And it also makes it much more possible to think of a truly regenerative economy insteadof caving into this idea that the population is ever growing,so must the GDP,so must the exploitation of nature,and so on.I understand.In a way,you can think about the necessity of the declining population.When we think about theAsian times,and when we think about the areas that we were a huntsman or nomads,the burden of the nature actually did define the number of humanity as well.At a time of emergency,is this something that we need to think about it?Well,maybe I am reacting to that,but maybe not.On the other hand,there is a point.When we think about the decline ofpopulation,this is a perspective based on a agricultural and industrial society.There are not so many people.So,for example,if we think of thisfrom an information society,if there are less people on the land,then that will become more,that will enrich the society.Machine doesn't break down so easily.So,there won't be labor that is not human.That means if that machine can be possessed by a few people,then we can live a richer life by sharing more productivity with a small number of people.We don't need alife factory.It's about a commons.If a commons is only sustained byhuman,then we have to have a lot of human.But the commons is actually notonly sustained by humans.For example,internet,computer,robots,hardware,water,hydroelectricity generators,and all of these things are supporting our commons.So,in that way,not growing too much and converging to a certain number is the natural state of human.It's exactly.So,if we have a fewer number of people and think of the productivity from that perspective and build the system,then new ideas will come out,and we will be able to shape the society in that form.Understood.Thank you very much.In that sense,the aging society will arrive,and we will live probably 100 years,and how do we live?These are the topics that have been discussed.Everywhere,I guess.And there was an example,actually a role model,that Yoichi has shared with the editorial team,sowe'd like to share with you as well,Audrey.This person is calledガキョウロジンマンジ.We will translate him as Picture Mania Grandpa,a.k.a.マンジ.Maybe you might know this person.This is his nickname,as known asKatsushika Hokusai.So,this person has lived in the 18th century,and he lived longer than the average age.He lived until 89 years old.When he was in his 50s,most reaching his 60s.I'm sorry,excuse me,it's actually when he was reaching his 30s,he left a very interesting work.He started to call himself by a different name.From the age of6,I had a penchant for copying the form of things,and from about 50,my pictures were frequently published.And when I was in 73 years old,I was able to start to draw plants and trees at last.And I would probably be able to draw things better when I'm90,and maybe when I'm 100,I will be able to draw something like God.So,I would like to have an opportunity given from God,so I will be able to draw something that is very divine.So,first of all,youichi,can you explain to us why you like this person?Wow,well,if you proceed life,then you will be able to increase your ability or realize new values,and that will go on forever,and I think this is a very positive perspective.I'm not sure if young is the right word,not in the sense of age,but it's actually about the vivid,he's vivid,he has a lot ofliveness.I agree with you.I think on the other day you had published a book,and if you are to live until100 years old,I think you mentioned that you have under the 30 years old of working.Even if you retire at 65and you have 30 years after that,what is your image of working after retirement?Well,I think the point here is the one should be able to explore different trajectories in terms of the style ofcreation,the preferred media,the preferred field in working and things like that.And of course,retirement when using this way is just to represent a freedom to move.But of course,a lot of working age people nowadaysbecause they are teleworking,they are able to create new windows anyway,even during the day's work.That actually is onevery powerful argument for teleworking because it enables people to connect different fields together on theirpersonal computing environments instead of having to kind of cave to the predefined logic of their workplace.So basically what I was trying to say through that is just that if you have more time in your hands toplan your own life trajectory,then it will intersect with more places.I don't understand.I guess Japan,we entered companies in 22 and retired 60.I think there's many people who arestuck to this idea still.So if we can live until 600 or 90 or 100,what do you think is an ideal design?I think Audrey and myself,we think the same way.But I don't think we have a specific attachment to the social system.What we do doesn't change.It changes as the time goes by.So there's not a specific age that we are aiming.For example,it's me.I'm an artist.So I make art.I make papers.I talk with people and I converse with society.This is not because I have a label that I'm 22,that I'm something else.That doesn't really matter.If I'm 10 years older than now,maybe I might have a more deeper sense or nuance in my words.It's just about the parameters.It's not something defining of who I am and what I do.When you say that age is only by the parameter,what do you mean by this?Can you explain to us a bit more?It's just parameters.Red,black,yellow,blue.This is,for example,if we're talking about a color of a car,this is just an attribution.I think the age is something like this as well.So Audrey,do you think also age is only by an attribution like a color of a car?What do you think?Definitely.And through the internet,there really is no way to tell the other person's age.確かにね。必要ないですもんね。Sure,we don't need it,actually,don't we?One more thing,I think you wrote in your book,your own...You wrote about wisdom work by sharing,to share your knowledge and experience to other people from...Can you give us an example of a specific wisdom work that you have?Maybe it can be like an academic,it can be,but it can be anything.Can you give us an example for us?Well,the first thing came to my mind was that I visited a week ago a senior high school in Ban Cao.And as usual,I set up Slido,which is a way for the students in one classroom with me and the other six classrooms through telepresence videoconference.They can basically all ask me questions anonymously and also vote on each other's questions.And before long,the top question raised by an anonymous student was,Why is this good giving Audrey this kind of bubble tea in case in plastic with the plastic straw?I thought on Audrey's platform,we already banned plastic straws from the takeouts.Now,then I promptly discarded the straw,which I wasn't really using anyway,and started drinking directly from the cup.And it's very interesting,because if we say on the classroom attending a lecture,you can only raise your hand to speak up.That probably will not appear,because the person who raised their hand will have to take a tremendous risk,because they didn't know that the entire classroom is thinking the same thought.But through this digital reflective medium,anonymous idea can resonate with one another.So it feels like a collective intelligence is speaking to me.And by taking a response in here and now,I'm basically saying,Here,let's make the new norm.And of course,the teachers,the principal,I learned about this particular signal from their students.And in a way,that is unmuting themselves,even though it's just through words and not literally speaking through sound.And I think that's wisdom work,because it produced new habits,a new norm on the spot through collective action.I see,it's true.So that is age has nothing to do with it.They're all just parameters.And what you say is the only thing that is focused on.And in that respect,I think that's a very important discovery and statement.Yes,you were talking about unmute.I think that was the most interesting.Because children are muted. Children are forced to be muted.So unmuting their way of thinking,they start to talk.And online,elementary school students or junior high school students,when you do classes with them,you can tell.Compared to a grown-up,they talk much much more than the grown-ups.This is very important.So as the way of thinking,unmute them.And you'll get a lot of information from them.In the classroom,classrooms mute children.It's a system for muting children.When you unmute them,they become much more energetic.That's very important.So you don't have them to show their faces,right?They don't have to show the video.Because sound and writing,people understand at the same time.In the past,there was verbal,plus a sound.That was all,that was the form of communication.You type in sentences,you type in words,communicate,and then speak using audio.That's fine.Which means,that's why some children are able to speak up.Not just children,but many people will be able to speak up.That's true.Who are unable to speak before.Yes,that's right.That's true.It's a digital meeting.So if,Audrey,and Yoichi,if the two of you were to meet face to face,I could not cut in.But because it's digital,I can cut in.That's true.Because it's digital,I can cut in.Thank you.So we've gone on for a long time.Let's take a five minute,no,ten minute.Let's take a ten minute break.And we will reconvene at twenty-five minutes pass.So we have an eight minute break.Okay,let's take a break.Thank you very much.Thank you.And I will switch this off because it's not working well.Let me redo this.Let's take a look at the second step and the third step.Because I didn't hear it when I was doing my makeup.Okay.It has a special sound.Is that so?Okay.So it's not necessarily broken.No matter how,let's take a look at it again.It seems that it doesn't match the sound.It's like that.Okay.Just eight minutes.Let's take a look at it.This is the third level.This is the third one.It's the second one.It's the first one.I don't think I saw the first one.Yes,I just saw the first one.No problem.カフェ?Thank you.So the second one didn't have any sound.So I didn't miss anything.It's not necessary.It's okay.It's a little chocolate?It's okay.I'll take a chocolate.No need to take so many.Thank you.Just like this.Really.It's not for you.So I'll take this one.Thank you.Okay,this is okay.Thank you.お疲れ様。お疲れ様。耳入ってる?お、耳。ちょっと待って。なんか…始まってくれます。はい、超えます。はい、ありがとうございます。業務連絡でございます。炭さんもお茶屋さんもすいませんと、共有はうまくできるようになったので大丈夫です。We have good news.We are now able to properly share our screen.We have solved the problem.We actually had a few misunderstandings but we are now cool.So…Okay, excellent.We've got sunshine then.The rain is over.Thank you so much.Yes, thank you.We hope we didn't beat up the umbrella.いとーさん、大丈夫でしょう?いとーさん、 are you okay?Okay, now let's resume.お疲れ様、よろしくお願いします。ついて、ちょっとテーマにしたいと思っているのがSo the next theme is a broad theme.Broad theme is SDGs.This premierships for our goals.This is intentionally our theme.Ambulance somewhere?Do we have an ambulance in Taiwan?Yes, and that's indeed the sound of an ambulance.It shows the urgency for the partnership, I'm sure.Wonderful, exactly.I think that is what it is.So now we would like to go in the end about partnership.So it has been a year since we last spokeand Yoichi and Audrey, you both had very unique activities.So let's look at one example as Yoichi's activity in the past year.So I think you said that we were able to see the video,the second video with the wedding.So now we would like to...So we would like to look at it together.So let's review Yoichi-san about your activity.はい、どうぞ。これはラボでやってたやつだ。This is a work that we've been doing in my lab.This went viral in Japan as well.Students did a very hard work.I actually just said, you know, if I projected the subscription to the subtitles on the screen,then everybody was like, oh, that's interesting.And then they started to take lift from there.The point here is that there are small words that are mirrored beneath.That was the most important point.This fashion show was really nice.Humans are diverse.So we had this main person Ototake-san appearing in several of my projects.But this was also featuring him.This was done by a miraculous schedule, miraculous casting, and miraculous timing.This was my student.My lab student.So Mr. Iwata is our friend.And he is a low vision.You know, weddings are very hard to see if you're a low vision.Congratulations.I'm a media artist.So Audrey, last year, I think we didn't really explain much about what Yoichi was doing.So we wanted to reintroduce to several projects that he's been working on.Do you have any impressions?Yes, certainly.So if it's very much with this assistive intelligence idea that collective intelligence is there to be augmented as a society instead of people over-individuating themselves trapped within technologies,we work instead on technologies that are brought to people so they can decide how to use.So in a sense, it is design but lowercase the.So it's not a uppercase design to try to impose a new sense of normal, but rather to provide for the people so that the people closest to the pain can be re-enabled.And in this sense, I think it's just like my favorite technology, which is my eyeglass that enables me to be a fully participating community member.It's not here just for me alone, but also so that we can have this conversation together.So Yoichi is a prosthetist will become like glasses or even hearing devices as well.So glasses is just very simple, just about the glass and how to adjust the light.So when it becomes about hearing, it becomes about computational simulation and how do we capture the right wavelength,and how do we communicate it and adjust it in the movements of humanity and other sounds that can be heard.So I think there aren't so many differences within glasses or prosthets and those kind of tools.So Yoichi, you mentioned that technology, so Audrey mentioned about the assistive technology and intelligence and the freedom.So when people are allowed to have more choices, that's the most important thing.Something that we shouldn't be doing in assistive technology is to assimilate to the non-disabled.For example, low vision has a low vision culture. The deaf has a deaf culture.If DHH has their own culture, all of these are important.For example, if the sign language becomes all titles, then it somehow loses its culture.So not to assimilate is something that you value highly, Yoichi.So one of the things that you mentioned is we shouldn't be happy with just being diverse, but we also need to think about inclusivity.Yes, inclusivity is important.But inclusive means that we always need to think about the people who are not included.That's the most important part.So the danger lies in that.When people think that it's inclusive, they really think that it's inclusive.But there is always something that is not included in the inclusivity.So you always need to think about the outside.We won't be able to think about the outside.We can't complete the world.If the world is complete, then we will never think about the things that are outside.Inclusivity is a direction, not a state.That's very interesting.It's not about, okay, we're in a certain state, so it's inclusive.No, that's not the goal.Are you still eating pigs, for example?Are you still eating pork?Are you still producing carbon dioxide, for example?Audrey, you also use the term diversity and inclusivity a lot.What do you think about Yoichi's idea that there always might be somebody who is not included?Definitely.And I think mostly about people who are not even yet born.Or people who we don't yet consider as peoples.Natural personhood, where a river, a mountain, an ecosystem, a forest is considered as peoples in some jurisdictions like New Zealand.But when we do not yet give them the right to vote and so on, then they by nature does not exist on the diversity spectrum.So they're hidden, they're muted, so to speak.So if you say that you're 100% inclusive, you're by definition saying we're excluding the peoples that are currently unmuted.Maybe because they're not considered as people.Maybe because they've not yet been born.But really, those are the people who are going to suffer the most if we pollute the environment or the society.Or they're the ones who are going to be the most creative when responding to the new emergent issues when we're all like 100 years old.It's going to be those new generations of younger peoples determining the direction of the human kind and beyond.So to be inclusive to newer possibility that we cannot fathom, I believe that is the direction of inclusivity.I see.So with a crisis like COVID-19, we say, OK, now we've overcome the problem, we've now reached our goal.We tend to think so, but that's not what we should do.I think both of you agree. You seem to resonate and that's some food for thought for us.Thank you.In that respect, in Japan, what Audrey is doing, so there are things that you do that are known, that are very famous.But there are also viewers who do not know, so we'd like to introduce what you've been doing.In Taiwan, last year, on August 28th, at that time, you had zero people infected and the seven-day average was zero.Regarding COVID-19, you were very successful in containing this.But from there, in May, you saw the infection spread.And in two months, you had 10,000 people testing positive, regarding this including Audrey, regarding what everyone did, what you did attracted a lot of attention.One thing is, you've created a system for tracking the contact history, so you can scan QR codes and you can tell everyone's contact history.And by this, you're able to contain a lot of the infection.And another thing is, you were able to make bookings to be vaccinated very easily.You can do that at a convenience store, for example.And through this, we saw a big decrease in the number of people testing positive and you were able to contain the infection and that was amazing.So in this way, in countries that were successful in containing the virus, when you see a sudden spread, what you think about is having a very tight lockdown or restricting the movement of people.You tend to think so, but you did not do that.You used apps instead.So I think you're being very thorough.So why did you not think about a strict lockdown or things like that? Could you let us know?Certainly.Sorry, certainly.We didn't introduce any new apps in response to the surge because we've never declared a state of emergency.And from the experience of last year, we understand that people will only change their behavior.If they understand very well all the components related to that particular measure, which is why we chose SMS, which is why we chose QR code, which is why we say instead of downloading any app, just use your cell phone's camera,which is why we say if you can't scan the QR code, just manually text the 15 digits to the well-known number 1922 and so on.And all this is just to build a norm on top of which everyone can be creative in a practical way.So rather than any top-down lockdown shutdown, take-down measures, what we have trusted is the collective intelligence of people to understand the new variants at that time alpha and later on delta,and that we need to shorten the time it takes to do contact tracing from over 24 hours to maybe less than 24 minutes in order to make sure that the R value can be controlled to be under one in that example.So we basically trusted the public, the citizens, to come up with innovations.So I must say that the 1922 SMS contact tracing is not my idea.It's again from two civic technologists in the GovZero community and supported by tens of thousands of developers in various different teams.So Yoichi, as Audrey was saying, top-down lockdown shutdown, that's not what was done.So you believed in people, that's what Audrey was saying.And maybe you can do it because it's Taiwan, or could we do it in Japan?So what do you think?Of course Taiwan does have a large population, but Yoichi, well in Japan, Japan is unique again.But in Japan, I think we can believe in the people.But what's strange is in our country, the number of people infected is small, but we still wear masks.So rather than trust the people, I think it's the atmosphere that allows us to make things up best.But the air in Japan can be relied, I think, it's an index that can be relied on.The collective mutual watching or mutual monitoring, I think Japan is very strong regarding this.And that is doing very trustable moves, I think, reliability is high.So in that respect, a top-down lockdown is not being done in Japan either.So no lockdowns, the individuals do not break away.So substantially, I do feel that their freedom is being restricted.However, there are no laws or regulations that restrict the freedom of people.We just request people.So it's good and it's bad.I see.And depending on the country, the response is different.In Taiwan, the people in Taiwan and Japan too, seen from the rest of the world.Regarding COVID-19, Taiwan and Japan have managed to respond in a good way.And this know-how.How should I put this?Not just Japan, but communicating this, I think it's important.And Audrey, too.So you have been offering help, but it's not really spreading.Why do you think that is?Well, some of it is spreading, right?The general acceptance of the mask, if properly worn,a couple with hand washing and so on, is still very important to any variant of the virus.That is something that we've said in the very beginning, along with the people in Japan.And now the world is listening, like finally.And then, of course, the importance of people basically looking at each other,reminding each other to take care of each other,instead of prolonged lockdown, which caused fatigue and so on.I think that is also now generally accepted by the epidemiologists and so on.So I wouldn't say that those ideas were not spreading.While, of course, in many different countries,maybe the governments could not trust the citizens to the same degree like we do in Japan,where the citizens could create the mask distribution system,the SMS contact tracing system and so on.Still, this idea that communicating properly so that people have general epidemiological knowledgeand have just a top-down rule for people to obey,I think that idea has gained foothold.I see.It's true.You have the right not to wear a mask.When people say so, how do we respond?There are not many people like that in Japan,but if someone says that to you,are there people like that?Yes, there are people who say that.I have the right not to wear a mask,but probably the atmosphere, the air,they're going to be criticized.But substantially, voicing your opinion,it's your right to do so.You have the freedom to do so.And someone else criticizing you is not really right.But because of pressure like this,if that suppresses the number of people infected,maybe that's allowing us to stay healthy.But maybe we are unhealthy in a different sense of the word.I see.Yes, so air,atmosphere is interesting.So it's not clearly written.And things that are not clearly written,we respond in a very animal-response kind of way,I think.I understand.I would say that diversity helps also in Taiwan.Because rather than everybody wearing the same kind of mask,we talk about a pink mask episode.And after that,people wear a mask as a sign of self-expression.I can say,I like the presidential hackathon,the SDGS,it actually visualized the video.It actually visualized all the 17 SDGS in this mask.Or I can say,I work in the cabinet building.And this is a picture of the cabinet building or things like that.So people take to the mask as a way to be unique as well.So they can still kind of unmute themselves,so to speak,by showing their uniqueness in supporting the pink mask,the rainbow mask,and things like that.And I think that also convinces people,who even the most unique people,to still wear a mask uniquelyand protects themselves against their own unwashed hands.By the way,yoichi,you said that masks become somewhat comfortable.Yes,I started to use something very comfortable.In my sense,I have a zipper in the middle.So it opens up,like this.It actually opens too much maybe,but it's a very strange mask that I like.You know,if it opens up,it doesn't really have a meaning that I still like it anyway.It's free.It kind of gives me some freedom.So that's why I like it.Options,in other words.When you started to wear that mask,then you started to say that you don't really hate masks as much as you did before.So,to wear a mask,it has become a common knowledge or a manner,let's say.And everybody has this ruleor accepted this new common senseto wear a mask where you go to a public place.So,there's actually one news that I would like to share.This is from the president of Ramaphosa from South Africa.When he was making a speechwhen the Omicron variant was discovered,the Emirates of the Omicron variant should be a wake-up call to the worldthat the vaccine inequality cannot be allowed to continue.So,until everyone is vaccinated,everyone will be at risk.Until everyone is vaccinated,we should expect that more variants will emerge.So,the masks are widely acknowledged and used.But on the other hand,the vaccination or the vaccine themselveshave some unequality.The vaccines were developed at a miraculous pace,but there's also this unequalness in its distribution.So,yoichi was talking about diversity of course,Audrey,you too,new ways of approaching the situationhas been helping us to strive in this situation.But at the same time,how can we tacklehow can we ideate on this unequalness?Maybe I'm talking a bit too romantic or dreamy,but how will we be able to tackle this unbalance?Maybe you can start from Yoichi.Maybe the question was a bit too difficult,but maybe you can start from Audrey in that sense.Okay,sure.So,first of all,I was able to travel becauseI was vaccinated fully with two doses of AstraZenecawas because of partnership,right?People from Japan donated AstraZeneca vaccines to Taiwan,which formed the backbone of our mass vaccination platform.Without the Japanese donations,the platform that you showed that I helped build and designI could not operate because we wouldn't have anythingto vaccinate people with.So,again,my gratitude and sincere appreciation of this partnership.And I think a lot of this boils down to making surethat the supply is plenty,especially in placeswithout the storage requirements that can hostthe kind of vaccines that requires more storage restrictionslike the mRNA vaccines we need to work onfor example,the subunit technologies and so on.In Taiwan,of course,Medicine is currently undergoingthe partnership with the Coalition for Academic RepairnessInnovations,the CEPI,as well as the WHOas a kind of phase three study on both Mix and Matchand as well as the vaccine itself.And once proven safe,then it would be much more easyto distribute to placeswith minimum storage requirements.So,at the end,I think that could be solvedwith supply-side technologyand we're working on that.So,although it's not in good balance at the momentor not distributed widely at the moment,it will come astechnology or science advance.Is that your message?My message is that we need to fund internationallythe kind of vaccine technologies that are more equalto distribution requirements.Understood.So,Yuichi,especially around vaccination or vaccines,there's a disparity between countries.For example,in Japan,we were able to share with Taiwan.There's a lot of issues around Africa,the global south.And you've been mentioning about this a lot.I think this is a unsolved issue.What do you think about the international balance?It hasn't been solved at all in the past few years.I think it's one of the most hard issues that we need to tackle.And one of the main issues regarding vaccination is aboutfundings.And maybe some part of it can be about the diplomatic issues.For example,which country is coming from where or where.And there are some conflicts between that part.But most of all,it is about the economics or the funding.So,there's a certain new vaccination being created.Then it's monopolized.And then it also creates new funds.But I think the most important thing is to make it open source.And how to make this open source?With a safe verification method is important.I think we can make an open source platform.I think we can make a new OS.I think we can make,for example,a new Web3 or blockchain.Or a DOF.So,we can have new ideas.How can we apply these kind of new methods to vaccinations or medicine?This is a very difficult issue.We are making medicine in a very centralized system.Very closely related to the nation state.What are we doing with vaccines?It's actually about information,about protein and acid.So,how can we use?How can we utilize these information so that everyone can make this by themselves?I think that's one of the core problems that we are facing.I see.So,how can we make a place,how can we make a century or a partnership to create vaccinations everywhere in a free way?You know,the important thing is,vaccination is about open sources.For example,papers regarding vaccinations are open.It's open access.But most of the papers are becoming open access.The target.We know about the DNA of the target that we want to deliver.But the production phase is a problem.How can we make this part open of the information of the target?How can we create this industry in our own way,in our own countries?For example,if it's Pfizer,they should have been creating that vaccination with a huge investment.So,they will not be able to give it away.Well,you know,if there is an open source that combats this,I think they should be accepted by society.If something is made open source,and if new ways of rights or so forth come along,I think the international society should combat this.Interesting.Odri,what do you think?I'm not too familiar with computers and when it comes down to open source programs.But,you know,I think there is always a potential for local knowledge and such to also be shared by open sources as well.How can we connect this wisdom and the open source?What do you think about this?We're already seeing that the open source,open hardware movement around the home testing kits,the rapid testing kits,which initially started as kind of lower quality in terms of precision,but has grown a lot in the past couple of years.And now,of course,the rapid testing enabled the kind of contact tracing work that can basically combat the virus variants with a higher R value,with more or less the same non-pharmaceutical interventions.Because of the,as I mentioned,the shortened time,it takes from a case being detected as well as the contact tracing to work.In that sense,I believe both the SMS based contact tracing as well as the rapid testing kits are already seeing the power of open source.Indeed,the Japanese company line actually changed their main QR code scanner of adding each other as friends to support the 1922 SMS testing method because it's an open standard based on SMS sending and so on.So,they were able to independently develop it along with,of course,HTC and TREM micro and so on,on the common standard.Had we patented the 1922 SMS QR code strategy,that would not be possible for people to adapt so quickly.うーん、interesting.Digital nature.You talked about how people are going to change to heaven and slaves,and one solution might be open source.So,it's one or the other.You tend to think like GAFA,and then a new open source like Japan,Taiwan,non-US companies might be able to go after this.Is there that possibility,do you think?Well,to start out with,open source or patents,why did they appear when you think about that?That is,all over the world,all over the world.If I want to use a different Facebook,then Facebook doesn't have that.If I want to create a different iPhone,an iPhone is an iPhone. Coca-Cola is Coca-Cola.Toyota is Toyota.So,one brand,or one structure,everyone,with law,capital,using things like that,to tie it down.This has now become more complete.So now,a lot of indigenous people are using smartphones on the earth.It's like a chain of rights,and places that are unpolluted are difficult to find.But,substantially,before we came up with these rules,it was open source,and substantially we were distributed.But,when you think about that,digital nature.So,what we need to think about is,as part of this,so,paradise.In a capitalism,it's a paradise that has sucked up a lot of profit from capitalism.And,just paying the cost means that most of what you make as a living is used up to pay this.So,once you know that that's happening,then these people should try to create their own,their own system that they need.And when they create the system that they need,open source is going to be key.And this kind of thing,they'll be clashes,or they'll be fused together,and gradually,gradually,a basic income type society,and a venture capital type society.In other words,the type of society that sucks up capital,and the ones that reallocate horizontally,and live together in nature,I think it's going to be separated into these two.Personally,that's what I think.Yes,that's true.And open source is important,because we don't have the commons yet.I see.So,things like vaccines,if we could develop them in that way,that would be good.Well,it's not impossible.However,there's no guarantee,that's the problem right now.Guarantee,you say?So,because the government guarantees,we can vaccinate.But,you cannot define under the current law what that is.Because with pharmaceuticalsare decided by government's law.So,if you break up,it's not possible.That's difficult.From the government.If you have medication,could you use that medication,that is not approved by the government?I mean,it's possible to use it,but that's quite difficult in some countries.And the issue of law and pharmaceuticalsis a difficult issue.So,what you create over open source,how do you share that?That's difficult.And Audrey,include in what you just said.Let me show you the next slide.And then,I have a question to ask you.So,Audrey,regarding partnership for the girls.So,that's the 17th SDG.And this is out of the 17 SDGs.This is the most important.I remember you saying that.So,why do you think so?That's my first question.And this goal,especially under COVID-19.What meaning does this goal have?Audrey-san,I'd be interested in your views.Sentimentally.So,I always sign off with live long and prosper.But these two values without partnership for the girls are usually in opposition to one another,right?To live long,that's to say,to sustain means that we prioritize future generations.But to prosper,that is to say,to develop means that we prioritize our current generation.And so,this entire idea of sustainable development in one sentence,and then trying to paint it as a coherent goal,realize on somehow this generation makes peace with the interest of the next generation,between the short term and the long term,between the environment's concerns and the societal concerns,so that the economy can be regenerative instead of exploitative on one generation or the other.So,without over innovation,without reliable data,there's simply no way for this kind of understanding to form so that we know when working on one of the 17 goals is not cancelling out the effect of someone else working on the other of the 17 goals.Innovation,regarding this,you were saying you think this is very important.So,overcoming national borders,do you think this is possible?Mutual sharing of innovation,is that possible?Or,like the vaccines,is this going to become distorted?Well,are we not doing it right now?So,it's not just possible.We're doing it right now.You're doing it,excuse me.I see.For example,mutual sharing of innovation,can you give me specific examples of what's being done now?Yeah,like literally recording this show together.So,as we are recording this together,our conversation.Of course,I have our own camera crew taking the picture.And we also have all of your voice,including interpreter's voice,that we're going to ask you whether it's okay to contribute to the creative commons.And if you said no,of course,we will remute you.But if you said yes,then,of course,we will publish this into the creative commons,where anyone,including hip hop bands like those monos,can remix into their own liking.And so,when Yoichi talks about digital commons,this is by definition,the digital commons.And we're contributing to the commons as we speak,like literally as we speak,across the jurisdictional borders.I see,right.I agree.So,Yoichi,the other day,you were saying,if you speak on the media,it just gets consumed.And in the end,it doesn't come into reality.You will not speak about it.But in a true sense of the word,we have to have a commons.What you say has to become commons,because there are people who listen who do not execute.So,regarding this,you could please tell us why you said that.Well,when it becomes a buzzword,most things disappear.In other words,the buzzword,and what we really have to do,the direction is slightly off.There's a mismatch.And the value itself,for example,the moonshot,the moon itself does have meaning.But,the word moonshop probably has no meaning at all.So,going to the moon is important.But,the word moonshot becomes a buzzword,which means that in the end,no one goes to the moon.So,at a time like that,the popular words right now,or,words that people say.Things just settle down,and nothing is done.So,what do we do about that?I'm very interested.So,that buzzword.People talk about it,and then they're satisfied,and then they don't take action.There's a lot of things like that.So,regarding the moon,you should talk a lot about the moon.But talking about moonshot a lot has no meaning.I see.That's true.And Audrey,regarding this theme,so just talking about it,and people don't take action.There are a lot of things like that.COVID-19,there have been a lot of good buzzwords,but we don't really see action following.So,what should we do?What can we do?Audrey,could you let us know what you think?Yeah,I do believe that it's possible to communicate in a as-is way,right?Describing things as it is,if it's in the commons,well,we call it commons.We don't call it same metaverse.So,and then using the words that represents the everyday meaning of what we're going through allows everyone to understand how to take part.As I mentioned,the way we designed the 192 to SMS was that anyone can just generate their own 15-digit random code.You don't have to apply it from a central assigned authority or anything.Just roll some dice,generate a 15-digit random code,and then you can participate and print that QR code.And indeed,more than 2 million venues did so once we introduced the system.So,in a decentralized way,with the ideas very firmly understood and very easy to explain fashion without any buzzwords,that promotes action from everyone who are concerned that the contact tracing is taking too long.And then,before long,it becomes the norm,even when we didn't say that it's mandatory.Many venues offered it.Of course,they still offered pen and paper for people who don't want to scan a QR code.So,it doesn't take any freedom away.It adds freedom precisely because we chose intentionally very easy to understand parts described with very easy to understand words.Nusra,I think I understood.So,not to say that we have to do a QR code,but actually just doing one by one and that will create a custom or activity in the end.That is,the moon.Say it after you do,maybe.That's another way of saying in my words.Thank you very much.So,I will hope that this program does not become a buzzword.And because soon,I will do my best.Really?So,finally,we would like to go to our next theme.So,I would like to share my screen again.Thank you for sharing your ideas on the second topic.Now let's move to the next one.So,in 2022,what kind of new world can we think?How are we described?In the recent data,we asked people if there's anything that they want to do or spend on 2022.In first place,was traveling.For example,Kyoto is filled with tourists at the moment.And we heard that also in Taiwan after the hotel was over,there were a lot of people reserving hotels.The bridge to move around,we looked into a paper from 2020 in nature.What kind of positive effects does mobility bring to the human brain?We looked into a few 132 people and how they moved around.The people who are moving around more have a better effect on the hippocampal part of the brain.So,it actually proves scientifically on how people like to move around.This was what the paper was proving.Although people are still having restrictions in their mobility,once we are suppressed so much,people begin to think and have that urge of wanting to move.The feeling becomes stronger.How can we liberate our feeling?How can we let go and let out of our needs is the next topic that we'd like to discuss?Maybe I'm overcomplicating this too much,but Audrey,do you have any ideas on these topics?Definitely.I think it's quite intuitive with people that we want to travel together.We say travel makes friends.Of course,it also breaks friends.But in any case,new experiences tend to stimulate our social connections better.So,I do think that in two different aspects.One is that interactive immersive video gaming,for example,is also a change of scenery.And we've also seen that it has skyrocketed over the past couple of years.So,that people want to spend more time in,I don't know,minecrafts or gather towns for the simple configuration,but more and more complicated configuration.That designs truly immersive experience,co-presence,share presence as well.So,that's the first part.And for the second part,we are also seeing that people take to domestic traveling because Japan and Taiwan are both relatively safe.So,we take much more time to spend on the places that are not very far,certainly not a different time zone,but a different culture.So,we start to discover the coaches that are nearby,but were previously ignored by our current community or neighborhood.And that brought much more conversations among the 20 national languages in Taiwan,including the sign language with also a national language here.So,did you say sign language,is that also another thing that everybody is paying attention these days?Yes,because during every 2pm press conference by the Central Epidemic Month Center,there's always sign language interpreting going on,especially as I mentioned by law,it's part of the 20 national languages that we should provide real time interaction in.So,both because that people see it much more because of the national act,but also because people are now much more paying attention to the domestic traveling and domestic coaches in Taiwan.So,there's a real resurgence in the educational materials,online interactive courses,and things like that that immerses people into the coaches of all the sign languages,as well as of course the other national languages,the indigenous,the Hakka,the Holoc,and so on.Interesting.So,a new way of perceiving the world may be through sign language as well,that's also a new way of traveling.So,yoichi,what do you think about this urge of people wanting to move around and this feeling of wanting to be liberated?If you say to be freed from suppression,I guess people,human beings are animals,and our DNA hasn't changed so much.So,before the agricultural age,we have been moving around almost 2000 miles per year,and I don't think the few thousand years will allow us to settle down somewhere compared to the length of how much we've been moving around in the past.We have always been moving around,and that's a fact.If we look back 4000 years ago,that's not too long ago,and if we think about this,maybe not moving around airplanes,that's a different thing.airplanes are very recent,but if we think about moving around with our physical state or physical body,I think that's something very important.When I move around Tokyo,I move in a bicycle,and if we,there's this concept calledmecha biology,and we have all these different stimulations from heat and all those different stimulations will stabilize or bring a monostatic state to our mental state.So,this is something that we can call as a physical knowledge or physical intelligence.And,I think,2021,we wanted to or have been reclaiming that sense of intelligence,the physical intelligence.So,you don't necessarily have to travel,but we have to move around more,and that's something that we know.And how to retrieve that,how to regain that.Everybody has a different approach in my sense,it's bicycles.Maybe some people are running with room runners,or some people might be doing marathon within the scene,or might be dancing.I think that's free.So,in that physical knowledge or physical intelligence,like you mentioned,do you think video games are physical knowledge?It could be,but I have to,I think that it always has to include some kind of movement.For example,using the reflection,or not only the brain,but moving around with muscles and bones.And that person has to create their own way of moving around,even though it is about the interaction with the video game.It may be a stationary bicycle.Stationary bicycle.Stationary bicycle.Interesting.There's one word,it's bus word,metaverse.And there's a lot of people who are boasting to some extent,that metaverse is the word of 2021.And it's also one of the trend words in the business scene as well.Do you think that metaverse will be something that will fulfill the need of movements?I think we need to really think about what really is about what really is being fulfilled,what is the real need.I want to meet people,I want to see new things.How can we treat this?But it's not really about traveling,but how can we also fulfill our responsibility to the nature?If the resolution of the metaverse increases,that's much better.But the technological advancement is not there.Our brain,things are more vivid.Materiality glasses does not allow this.What's your view on these things that people call metaverse?Maybe because I read Snow Crash very early on.So to me,the term metaverse belongs to the same era as when I encountered the word cyberspace.To me,they're kind of synonyms and I was exposed to them at around the same year.So to me,it conveys a sense of nostalgia,not anything that's in the future.So,I think it's just people's,as you should have said,real needs that could be fulfilledby ever increasing bandwidth and ever reducing latencyand more and more we're approaching the cyberspace or metaverse.But to me,it's not something shiny exciting newbecause to me,it's my childhood,like,literally.I see,we think it's state of the art,but it's been talked about for a long time,metaverse.People have forgotten about a second life,have they?Yes,second life,that's true,that used to exist.We used to talk about that.Right,I understand.So,it's true,at the beginning,so going to meet people travelling with people going to see your friend,that's one of the benefits of travelling,we were talking about that,in that respect.We have the final video,the third video,about a traveller.And then we'd like to go into the final part of our talk session.So this is the final video.Could you please play the video?There is no sound.Why are they turning that?Okay,that was the video.AndYoyichi,in the breathing,he said Einsteinattracted his attentionand I looked at this,this was interesting.So after World War I,he travelled in Japanand after World War II,after his reflection,this led to global peace movementsand it was an experience travelling that let change the future.So regarding Einstein's travels,what do you think?Yes,there was more of a story to this than expected.So when Einstein came to Japan,he was welcomed.I remember reading an article about thatand Einstein is European.So in Europe,he spent time thereand then in Japan,Japan is very pastoraland Japan probably seemed very interesting to himand in the war,after the atomic bombingand before and after,he probably thought a lot about that,I think.So this kind of thingand on the internet,if you're involved in ITand the internet,we in any countryso we think about C plus or any languagethat's not a natural language,we write our programsusing common languages,we don't really think about this.And in the world of ITthe physical things do not move in most casesand we don't really fight or shoot bulletsor launch missiles,we don't really think about thatbut of course to control missilesIT technologies are usedand to kill people using dronessoftware,machine learning is usedso this kind of thing,how do we think about that?we should be more sensitive about thisbut things that are based on ITclose to IDEA,ideal,close to the idealso the cruelty of human beingsyou tend to forget about that,not feel itand I think in the 2020swe should not avert our eyes from thatso Einstein,probablyso probably he talked about the theory of relativityand there was a lot of molecular physics that blossomedand I think that was a very happy time with his lifebut from there,in the United Statesthere was the nuclear bomb plantand watching thathe probably noticed that there were a lot of problemshe probably realized that and sensed thatyes that's very interestingso if this interpreterhad not been traveling with himhe would not have thought about who they were bombing with the A-bombso because he had traveled in Japanhe thought,ah Hiroshima Nagasakithat's where I traveled with the interpreterso knowing about that country is importantyou cannot imagine what you have not experiencedand Einsteinhe traveled in Japanthat's why the atomic bomb that he developed brought suffering to Japanand he felt very guilty about thisand with his friends at the timehe tried to start the peace movementsso knowing your counterpartmeans that you know the world beyondand in that respectovercoming national bordersand being connected is importantthat's one of the lessons so AudreyAudrey,what did you think about the video?definitely,I think I said many timesI.T. is about connecting machinesdigital is about connecting peopleand the reason why we want to connect peopleis not just for connectiveness's sakebut rather that we want to understand each otherso we arrive at common valuesand also to innovateand let our innovations tackle the challengesthat arise from pursuingof those common values together over many generationsand so it means bringing together the valuesof existing in different localitiesdifferent time zonesbut also opening up to the possibilityof future generationsand both are key to the peace movementbecause without this understandingwe will be in a dark forestas some science fiction have suggestedwhere war is an inevitable resultand so just by changingthe dimension of connectivitycan we avoid war and search peace instead?So in that respect last yearAudrey was saying something interestinghe was saying the world with COVID-19the world has a common problemthat's why mutual understanding has moved forwardlike no other errorthat's what you were sayingand do you think things are improving furtheror going forward?do you think there's lots more homeworkthat we have to think about?what do you think?we're now progressing to a pointwhere international workforcesand specific counter-pandemic measurescan be assembled on top of open accessand shared learning platforms and so onthat are the backbone of further researchfor example on mitigating the climate crisisand things like thatbecause we already understand thatthe collective response to a common urgencyis a constructive oneso we can just like you hearing the ambulancefrom here which is miles awayactually from where you're physically atbut you feel the urgencythat this ambulance means to meand then we can strategize on somethingof course I'm using that as a metaphorbut the point here is thatpreviously we kind of assumethat urgency are tackled in a domesticpriorityand that it's okayto externalize some of the badconsequences of our solutionsto the next generation or to the peoplewe have never metbut during covid that's not the norm anymorejust like showing off is not the norm anymoreduring covid-19 on social mediawe're now turned to a new directionof as I said the global neighborhoodaround common urgenciesof course there's a lot of work still to be doneunderstanding the climate situationwe now understand the coronavirus strainsand so onbut I think we're pivotedto the right directionthank you very muchso finally I have a request to yoichithat sense to live togetheror being togetheryoichi has been statingthis idea of homoconvivianwhy do you think this is importantcan you explain to us in Audreyso homo something somethingor homo blah blah blahthere's a lot of thesehomo sapiens, homoludens,phomofarbal, fableso homoludens is about peopleis about the humans are about playingplaying instruments, theater, gamesand have been creating culturehomo fable is about making toolsmaking new thingshomo sapiensI think this is a really nice wordbecause maybe science or cultureor engineering or design or artwe have been accumulatingor building up these different culturesthat's how that's what it describesso sapiens is very importantbut at the same time I think it's importantto view humanity in the terms ofhow can we live togetherhow do we exist togetherwe have been connecting to thisvery highly developed networkand only have passed 20 or 30 yearsand that's a new experiencefor humanity in generalso for example antsor dolphinsor other specieshave been connected to networkfor millions of years for exampleso I thinkdolphins have been connectedfor 46 million years for exampleanywayconvivium meansa Latin word of being togetherand in French it meansto live together in Englishconvivialityit means to partyin Spanishconviviencia it means to coexistin the history of Spainwe go back 500 yearsconviviencia if different people from different religionslive together for 500 yearsit is a state of convivialconvivium how to live togetherhow to be a connected humanitywhat can we thinkand how should we thinkwhat is our characteristicsand how are we evolvingand I think this is one thingwe will continue to remainas a characteristics of humanityso when we think about convivialityand when we feel about ithow can we feel about itwe are nearingthis sense of sapiencebut also there's a layeror there's a spectrumthat we need to think aboutwhen we think about a conviviumthere's a different angle therewhen we rethink about thisbody or the physicalis looking for a conviviumsharing spaceshaving intelligence through our bodiesand then when you talk about sapiencereading the paperfrom somebody who isin another placeor from another timebut you can also imagine it in a very vivid waythat's what sapience doesbut to overcome our great divideI think we need to think aboutthis convivium aspectand humanityso sapience willimplement ITand we are tryingto pursue our wayas a homoconviviumso what's your ideaafter hearing this explanation AudreyI think it's greatjust as I put a onein the sapiencethere's still a I in convivialthat I can put the one into digitalizethe part of the wordand that's important becausepart of me noware being augmented by the assistive technologynot just the eyeglassbut also this one-side earphonewhich is the shape of onewhich connects methe sapience part of meand the convivial part of meto yoyuchi and the interpreterand the moderatortogether miles awaybut that's convivialitybecause we're sharingeachother's presencealthough in a fragmented fashionbut that's still importantbecause it brings up new inspirationand new possibilitiesthat let us think beyondour immediate corners of the worldso I fully understand and supportthis idea ofhomo sapience not being analyzedas individuals but rather as convivial animalsつぶません 仰者の価値感っていうと格at value of being convity .but what do you think makes a conviety a state?最近、フロア manager frameworka 17B Po Pekiなんか一番umapmeダメージnot all people we use aでも、手作りが作られたのは、手作りの行方を使ってきました。つまり、畜生は入らないので、その字の人について、きょうにアマネットがあると、問題にとって、自分の行方のビデオで生まれたことになって、その 字の上にある意味。その 私のために何かをしてくれたという誰かは言やすいときに 自分で生きていたとして 少しずつ見ぞく尊敬の意味を取り出すと 誰かがイメージを負担したことを言うとき、どうしてもすごい思いはなくてどうしたかを 聞いたかを覚えてくれませんでもここにいると、 もう一度かもしれない誰かが自分での思いを 言いながら時はそういう意味で、その存在を share that sense of existence, I think that is the importance of conviviality, that was very easy to understand, to see the face of another person or how to create tools to see the opponent, I think that's something important, indeed, indeed.I think, Audrey, you yourself, you are a programmer, but for a person who can't write any programs, we have a feeling that we can see the face, we have no idea how to write and we have no idea who is writing.But I think each programming or masterpiece that is brought out from that has somebody who has produced it and there is an intention and a meaning behind that.So what do you think as a programmer?Program is just a use of words, in a way that of course has a tangible effect, but most of which are meant for other people to read.So in any sense, it's exactly the same as writing, just with a different kind of rhyming, a different kind of format.But at the end of the day, a programmer's ability is constrained only by the mastery of words, exactly like a writer.So it's just like writing the files, I guess, that you have to tell a very long story, but you also have to rhyme, and that's the kind of writing that programming means to me.And also means to give new associations, new links to existing vocabulary, because like most writers, programmers do not start from scratch, even if they're programming in the language.Scratch, they mostly begin with the blocks that are already constructed by the programmers before.And again, this is the same for novelists and anyone working in a literary field.The citations are much more powerful than having to construct anything from scratch,which is why I think to me is really the same activity.And when I mentioned that in the convivial, there's more bandwidth.I don't think I actually conveyed my idea through, so I just drew it out.There's actually now, you know, to double the bandwidth of that binary in a convivial and an intersubjective way.And what I mean by this more than a wordplay is that when we write programs as a programmer myself, we always have the next maintainer,the next programmer that's going to reuse my program in mind and in a sense is communication between two human beings as well.Indeed.So, Yoichi, you actually cite a lot about the craft to, or patchworks, to connect different things and making something.I think when it was a time where people didn't have enough substance or like enough material,people in, for example, China and Japan, the materials to make clothes were very, very rare.So, that's why we began to create patchworks and that was very important.When people do not have enough resource, people start to create something new rather than consuming.That's one aspect from the resource perspective.When we talk about IT, when we have resource, it starts to rot, it starts to go to waste.But IT, but when it comes to IT, if something is left from back from, let's say, 100 years ago, we can reuse it.We can continue to think about it.There's a freedom, so we can actually think or try to solve something that hasn't been solved for 100 years.And then there's something that we can realize that through people we can have that length of finding joy and finding problems beyond time and space.So, I think we can actually continue to weave the different issues and riddles that humanity has been finding out.So, I think we can continue to dig in deeper into these topics as well with you.そういうことで、およそ今日はお話しいい話です。No, I think we've heard lots of good things today.And when you meet next time, what would you like to talk about?That's what I'd like to ask you.Well, what I'm interested in now is, the other time I was in the mountains in Gifu Prefecture, that's in the center of Japan.A lot of forests, deep forests, and it's a mountainous area, and only around the rivers there's flat lands.That's the only place where there's flat land.And back in the Jomon era, around 12,000 years ago, that's where people were living.And an area maybe 10 kilometers, 15 kilometers aside, in a historic site, you see a pottery or earthenware from around 10,000 years ago.And these people, they were hunters and gatherers, and they wandered around in that really small area.And maybe 12,000 years ago, 10,000 years ago, they were wandering around this tiny area.And that's really actually very difficult.A variety of civilizations, they do not last that long.And after agriculture, cities will change.But with the hunter-gatherers, the people's lives here, there was a good balance.And for more than 10,000 years, they were able to wander around and continue to exist.However, the land was acid, which means that their bones melted away, so we cannot tell what they were like back then.But they're pottery, they're earthenware.So if you use them 30 times before, they were unusable.So people throw them away and then rebuild them.There are lots of these things on earth now.But this kind of, not much burden on the environment.And the number of people converging.So this kind of way of living exists across the world.And there are lots of hints that they can give us.Back then, they had no writing.And there's nothing that was saved, so we cannot tell.However, so with current archaeology, looking back over the past,and when we think about our current sustainable ecosystem,as we continue fieldwork, I'm sure there are lots of things that we can realize this year.And I hope that we can come to you with the answers.So Audrey, so we talked about civilization.Will we be able to talk about civilization the next time the two of you meet?As I mentioned, I will be bringing my undivided attention.My interest always is to listen.And then I trust my future self will think of something to say.I understand.So Audrey-san, I think you're running out of time.So we have to say goodbye.Thank you very much for today.And let's meet again next year.Okay.Well, we did go through all the units that we want to talk about.Thank you very much.All right.Excellent.So looking forward to speak sometime in the next year.Live long and prospering.I hope you have a good year.You too.See you.Thank you very much.See you again.So Audrey-san, thank you very much indeed.Goodbye.Thank you.And thank you especially for the moderating and interpreting work.It's very, very smooth.Thank you.Thank you.Thank you.お疲れ様でした。お疲れ様でございました。お茶屋さん、一回休憩していただいて、そこでちょっと軽く感想散歩を聞いて終わりにします。深いところまで行きました。だから、私は今、終わりました。終わりました。Thank you very much.メークフォンを取り出してください。いいですか?OK。OK。Thank you very much.