No one to spill it on my computer and I know that's going to happen. So, yes. How's everybody doing doing well. Excellent. Good. I'd like just to begin with a few thank yous. I'd like to thank the organizers, the organizing committee of the conference for inviting me to land Academy and iOS fair transitions. Thank you for your invitation and your hospitality and for the privilege and pleasure of speaking with you here today and attending the conference. So, thanks to Rick and Marit and Neil who I've met prior to commencing today and thanks for all your work in your hospitality. And we have visitors from all over. I'm from many different continents, and I'd like to begin by acknowledging your efforts to come a long way. So, and thank you for your attendance and for enriching our conversations. I hope the next few days are productive and stimulating. But most importantly, I hope they're happy for all of us. In the following talk. Let me do a few things. I'll address the aim of the conference which is quote the joint challenge of finding ways to make transitions fair and inclusive for human and non human life. By speaking to a few of the five guiding questions set out for us by the organizers. How could transitions be made fair for both human and non human life. What role is there for land governance actors and formal and informal institutions who will have a seat at the table and what knowledges are taken into account. How will non human interests be represented and could transitions be a lever for promoting equity. In these questions, I'm going to set out three provocations for us to think way across the conference. These provocations are the first land is alive. The second land transition is freedom work. The third is just transformation is very versa. I come to these three provocations in due course, I offer them as a means to pluralize epistemological ontological political and ethical approaches to land, land governance, and land transitions. I come to the conference, not as a transitions experts, nor as a land governance experts. In our conversation this morning in our little circle we had 1618 people, and there's wonderful expertise brought from students and scholars from community organizers from NGO participants so I'm very much in your hands. My comments here are an outsider if you like looking in to see what happens in this conversation, and what if any thoughts might be useful from my own expertise and my own interests for you. I've written recently about the politics of global environmental governance. And I expressed a concern about the risks as I see them a global and earth governance rationales and decisions universalizing structures and power inherited from, and which continue to reproduce colonial legacies. My critique provoked a defensive and robust response from some quarters, and we had a back and forth in the journal. So you can read about it in the annals of the American Association of geographers which is one of our geographers main journals. And if you can't access the papers due to the privatizations of knowledge. Just ask me and I'll be happy to give them to with this slide, I posed similar questions to those that I raised for in these in the papers on the global environmental governance. Those similar questions here for land governance and fair transitions. These are questions you're, you are all exploring in your conference, who sets the terms of what counts as inclusion, inclusion and transition into what. And are the institutions and imaginaries within which diverse actors and being included fit for purpose, or do dominant institutions and imaginaries reproduce many of the problems. Land justice and fairness seek to overcome. If they do reproduce forms of land injustice and unequal governance, then what imaginaries and institutions might be necessary for politics of land. We're familiar with the problem. Transition is across the threshold of power and into an institution, which is what transition means, etymologically, a movement across the threshold into a pre existing adaptive structure or form. Transition is into a nation state and intergovernmental organization or a framework for regulatory cooperation, like the UN or a bank or framework or land state redistribution scheme, or corporate apparatus predicated on defensive sovereignty of property, or extractivist economies of growth. The transition may be problematic. It may intend to be inclusive, but it may also not be sufficiently transformative for a precarious plan. Or it may set the conditions for what counts as inclusion, without understanding fundamental differences across life ways and needs. Let's put it in terms of question three of the conference, who will have a seat at the table. But the table itself is problematic. Then transition isn't about environmental justice, or about ecological thriving, or about political accountability and responsibility. Concern about the politics of inclusion is mirrored in contemporary efforts by post colonial settler states to incorporate indigenous worlds into their governance apparatus. This is an example of contemporary Canada where I am from originally in Canada recognition and reconciliation for past and present bronze is normatively framed by dominant political institutions. Reconciliation is about recognizing a version of indigeneity that can be imagined and known by a state colonial framework. The traditional framework of the state of the state seeks to reconcile past and present bronze by transitioning indigeneity into a settler imaginary of Canada. The movement is across the threshold of a colonial apparatus, which leaves the state adopted, but largely unchanged. But indigeneity and indigenous relationships to people and land are profoundly changed. Canada's colonial history requires reading contemporary approaches to reconciliation against the dispossession of native or indigenous people's lives and lands settler colonial myths and tropes about land in Canada have been long predicated on Terra Nullius, the triumphant, the triumph of nationhood over forbidding wilderness and capitalist developments or improvements. These rationales govern the continued violence of dispossession. As we know, however, such stories displace indigenous relationships with land and place in the context of reconciliation, operative normative frameworks preclude the transform the transformation of national settler imaginaries. In this influential book, Red Skin White Masks, the Yellow Nines DNA Scholar of the Land of Poletar puts it this, Canada's legal and political understanding of reconciliation renders indigenous assertions of nationhood consistent with the state's unilateral assertion of sovereignty over native people's lands. In other words, the terms of what counts as reconciliation in our context, perhaps transition into inclusive governance are defined by the colonial state. Dispossession of land remains the goal of settler colonialists. The point, however, is at the center of indigenous place-based practices. Coulthard and numerous other indigenous scholars whose work has come enormously to the fore in contemporary scholarship argues that indigenous struggles are struggles, not only for land, but also deeply informed by what the land as a mode of reciprocal relationship, which is itself informed by place-based practices and associated forms of knowledge. This is a contrast about living our lives in relation to one another and our surroundings in a respectful, non-dominating and non-exploitative way. Coulthard terms this ethical framework provided by place-based land practices and associated forms of knowledge, grounded normativity. In acting literally well up from the land relations, the land itself is the legal guide. Mary Graham, a Kongu Mary scholar from Australia puts it simpler still, the land is the law. Hers is what we in the Western philosophical tradition would call an ontological claim. Land itself is the guide. Frameworks for governing are not applied to land. The framework is the land and we inhabitants within land look to land for our normative grounds. In contrast to Western concepts of land, land from an indigenous perspective is not merely a resource available for human use. In preparing for the conference I read up on how some land use transitions literatures define land. A recent 2021 review by Long et al from over 20 years of land use transition research from 1987 to 2020, which analyzed 8,564 records defines land as follows. The spatial carrier of anthropogenic activities, the most basic production factor of socioeconomic development, and the most fundamental survival resource for urban and rural residents. Compare this to the characterization of land for indigenous peoples is articulated by Coulthard. Land occupies an ontological framework for understanding relationships. Or consider pre scholar and geographer and show days characterization of land. Land is an animate being a relative of food provider, and a teacher of law and governance to whom we are accountable. Both Coulthard and David draw on an echo the famous Zeus scholar by Deloria junior who argued that Western philosophical conceptions of meaning and value differed in a fundamental respect. The famous world views Deloria argue hold their lands places as having the highest possible meaning, and all their statements are made with this reference point in mind. Most Western societies by contrast he argued tend to derive meaning from the world and historical or developmental terms, thereby placing time as the marriage of essential importance. The philosophical differences become crucial when negotiating frameworks and processes for governance between indigenous and indigenous worlds. There's a terrain of incommensurability to the epistemic and ontological terms of discussion. In other words, we can't make the world the same, we can't make them comparable, because they're fundamentally income. Their imaginaries and institutions cannot be made for the same. Let's illustrate this by returning to the metaphor of the table for a moment. Recall one of our conference questions who will have a seat at the table and what colleges are taken into account. The question of thus far posed in the context of transition as reconciliation is, what if the table itself is problem. Inclusion around a faulty table is still a faulty table. We assume that the table is an apt model for negotiating questions of transition and governance. It certainly is the dominant model for how we in the global north. Think about negotiation and discussion regarding governance and transitions of energy, land, planets, and the like. But there are other models.  Palavres are an assembly where issues are freely debated and important decisions concerning communities are taken. The purpose of the Palaver is to resolve latents and overt conflicts in certain highly specific situation. These decisions usually gather under a Palaver tree where everyone has the right to speak and air their grievances or those of their group. Palaver and English today has a pejorative meaning that's come out of this original meaning. The English word Palaver refers to an unnecessarily drawn out trouble or bother something involving much TDM talk or negotiation. Every word Palaver drives from the West African Portuguese pigeon Palavera, which referred to making a dialogue or a conference between tribes people and traders. In West African English it colloquially refers to a dispute or a quarrel that requires arbitration. The arbitration arbitration happens in a lot of reports a lot of houses a lot of rooms are under Palaver trees. Palavres are institutions which are or have been practiced in multiple Sun Saharan West and Central African countries. And if we're she the rights of Palavres, they are spaces for open communication by which persons are integrated into the life and expectations of their communities. These spaces can be physical. That's when community members gather under the ancestral tree, but more importantly it's the psychological and social space for open communication. Masamba Apollo calls it speech that liberates within the Palaver discourse was thus raised into a system of jurisdiction and government. Palaver is a practice that supports a community as well being, even through difficult times, making it an excellent resource for pursuing successful post conflict resolution and recognition. Palaver is the tables to make a point about institutional imaginaries for governance and decision making. And make it also to foreground the relational context within which dialogue and discussion about governance is made. The relational space of the Palaver is a practice, as Flirkeshi denotes, that grounds itself often quite literally living relations with the land. The tree is often at the center of the place building work of the Palaver. The tree too is a participant in the discussion. It may be an ancestral tree, one that's been there for a long time, but also this is crucial, it may be kin, a literal ancestor. The tree is also a gathering agents of shade, comfort, support and sustained spatial presence, a dynamic of space as well as time, within which people gather as a part of the grounding relations from which norms are learned, debated and decided. Take the transition governance imaginary to the institution of the Palaver and ask the question, who will gather at the Palaver and what knowledges are taken into account. I guarantee you will have a different answer or set of answers than if we invoke the imaginary of the table at a table. If we actually go and sit under a tree and see possibly for days, in your rubah, a car or a bula, and listen and everyone present gets a chance to speak, what imaginaries and frameworks might emerge. The outcomes may not be necessarily better or worse, but they'll be different because they will have been shaped by how cool tar remember trained land as an ontological framework for understanding relationships. Which brings me to my first provocation. Land is alive. It's not particularly provocative. Of course it's alive. There are trees, animals, insects, air, oceans, all living or filled with life. But what if, unlike how we often approach land in dominant northern political narratives, where land is an abstraction made of separate living parts. What if we approach land as a living whole, much like as a beehive is a super organism. In a beehive, the organism of land is not a community of individual parts, but an interacting and intra dependent whole of which humans are simply apart. How many of us particularly debates in the global north about land governments or transition narratives foreground this presumption and principle this imaginary for when asking about where to begin with the politics of land. Do we begin with the characterization provided by Daedalus that land is an animate being a relative of food provider and a teacher of law and governance to whom we're accountable. Do we begin with the premise that land is as many indigenous people and scholars are doing King. What would happen if we began an approach to land governance with kinship as the organizers and principal. These indigenous and non indigenous scholars have recently asked this question. The approach to the non human or more than human as King comes partly in response to the enormous shift in recent decades within the social sciences and humanities. It's sometimes called post humanism, sometimes materiality studies, or broadly the ontological term, that is, return to the ways by which human and non human sociality is a product of relational agencies, the forces of human and non human action and interaction that make up complex assemblages of social life. And ontological terms have over the past 30 or so years begun to question move quite far along questioning humanists are anthropocentric understandings of what humans are. They questioned humanist method are the idea that human share a universal nature or a species identity and essential humanity that we are exceptional and radically different from other elements. On the one hand, and from machines on the other, and that humans are ultimately free subjects who can determine around history, above the rest of nature. The enormous explanatory and analytic shift in critical scholarship seeks to de center liberal humanist arrogance. The reasons for the shift are many. They're primarily about challenging human exceptionalism, but they're also about challenging the individualist notion of rational agency, the nature culture binary that sits at the heart of modern humans exceptionalism. The introduction of liberal humanism and crucially the continued ways by which liberal narratives of reason and freedom are themselves built from modern practice that raises the colonialist exclusion. Liberal humanism after all depends on these colonialist exceptionalisms that raise certain kinds of human to those counted as rational or democratic. To recognize that such narratives and rationales would sit for better or worse at the heart of liberal democratic governments transitions are the same governments transitions and frameworks that underpin dominant modern political discussions with land. In contrast, relational approaches argue instead for how, in the words of the famous Jamaican scholar Sylvia winter. The human is meted are winning a hybrid being, both by us and locals, or as I've come to recently defined in bias and myth. John says, by largely ontology and sociogeny together. Most human and ontological accounts which challenge the falsity and negative effects of the nature culture binary positive instead of what's called a relational ontology, a scheme magic of which you can now see on the screen. Consider how each of these models produced different imaginaries of land. On the left, you can see a Euro modern ontological schematic that begins in a separation of nature and culture. This is the model that dominates contemporary political approaches to environmental governance, because in part it dominates contemporary institutional politics. On the right is a relational schema, where in no grounding separation exists between nature and culture. Instead of flat ontology was not beginning by accepted. Land on the left is the thing separate from human reason. On the right, land would be the relation out of which humans emerge as one feature among many. On the left, land would be subject to politics or culture. On the right, things like songs and tools and stories are forces that define on an equal footing with rocks and plants and wind, how humans become self conscious. On the left, the question of politics is contained within a debate between culture a culture B and culture C. This approach is best universally applied to nature or land. We see this all the time in shifts in political cultures, different political dynamics, and how that's going to affect land governance decision. On the left, culture is used to exclude certain people and ideas as closer to nature and therefore basic. On the right, rationales, immersion from the plural relationships are used to explain hierarchies of meaning and value. What you need to imagine in this diagram is that on the right, the interactions are dynamic and moving in their complexity. So they're not fixed that they're constantly dynamic and moving. On the left, nature and culture are also dynamic. But the modern world view begins with their conceptual separation as their starting point. Contemporary posthumous and ontological accounts that cite as their touchstones Western European philosophical traditions and theories. And theorists like Bruno Latour and Gilles Deleuze and Donna Haraway and others. Do not typically, although Haraway might be the exception, posit relational worlds as kin. They may recognize that the tree at the center of the Palaver and acts what emerges as political, but they don't normally go as far as claiming the tree to be a literal hence, or a member of the family. These indigenous scholarships have come forward to critique the ways relational ontology is derived in Western frameworks, often reproduced colonial logic. Simply by their exclusion of indigenous ways of knowing indigenous scholarships argue that indigenous peoples have almost begun in and with relationality. As that is what the West we call it's ontological starting points. Why not they ask, begin with indigenous worlds, instead of Western ontological accounts. So to return to our Palaver tree is the space for addressing how to make transitions there and includes. Let's look at the problem through the question for the conference. How will non human interests be represented. What are now sitting around the tree and how can they be heard. Perhaps if we begin by translating a somehow separate domain of the land or nature more broadly into the terms of culture, we do a certain practical or conceptual violence to the non human life. Nature or land is universalized in this model, as an other to culture and culture is similarly limited as the other to nature. We begin in the cessificities by which particular place relations constitute meaning with particular relationships and crucially with knowledge systems and people expert in this place. Then non human interests are not represented as something separate from human understanding. They become rather co immersion with the relationships of land and its meanings themselves. We begin with the assumption that non human interests are somehow separate from human interests, as though human interests are exceptional to the interests of plants or jaguars, then representing them is a problem. But if we begin in the complexity of a relational place where interests are co emergent dynamics of becoming together. And representing interest is not about understanding separate beings, as though their interests are distinct from one another, but about the relations that make up flourishing of the place, the land, which is make up the politics of driving. So here I come to my second provocation. Land transition is freedom work. How do we do this relational politics. So before you're drawing on the work of post human and indigenous scholarship that relational approaches to land understand land itself as the source of politics and the guide of governments. The work of living well, which, after all, is what the work of politics is all about derives from cultivating an attention to the constitutive relationships that encourage thriving relationships that in the words of abolition, referred Ruth Wilson Gilmore, make life precious. As Wilson Gilmore often says, for life is precious, life is precious. Our political responsibilities she argues are to care for and to build sustaining worlds that literally make us. What relational approaches advocate is a politics of connection to living relations, rather than, if you will, a freedom from connection and responsibility, or an attempt to prioritize political principle for political practice. The political work of freedom, equity, equity, sustainability and sovereignty for Wilson Gilmore, as it is also for indigenous approaches is to build place based relationships from grounded normative practices. Place for Gilmore is more than a locality. It entails the entire ensemble of people in the bonds among them. Consider again the relationality of the Palaver as a governance place to build such a column rather than the perhaps more conceptual and remove table as a metaphor for guiding approaches to institutionalize government. The responsibility to the physical building a place relationships from the tree in the center is credited on care and thrive for the trees relationship is grounded in that particular land is placed and across in such a time. Wilson Gilmore phrases this positive place building work in her dictum freedom is a place. The freedom is not the remote for her freedom is not the liberation from constraints that the responsibility to carry. Wilson Gilmore has long been known as one of the chief advocates of prison abolition in the United States, but also elsewhere. While it is about the removal of carceral geographies like prisons jails and surveillance and about opposing economies as abandonment fosters abolition through world building abolition geography challenge into the general notion that territory is alienable and exclusive. It demands that we attend to reciprocal relationships between people and land. It's an abundance politics that emerges from specific relations that build the politics from specific places. Recently within geography, the concept of abolition ecology which evolved from Gilmore's work has theorized the ensemble of human and more than human relations. Hayden and Ibarra right about recognizing deeper racialized ways that nature has always been unevenly socially produced through relations with Empire settler colonialism and racial capitalism. Abolition ecology entails understanding the ways that reciprocal man relations are often synonymous with liberation struggles and as such about building intuitions and processes that are explicitly focused on the political ecological imperative of access to fresh air clean water sufficient land, milleration of toxic chemicals and beyond. That's the effort is to counter racialized and plantation logics that can be reproduced and dominant institutionalized approaches to governance and transition. We might read the flowering of black land and agro ecological collectives in North America as examples of these place world forms of grounded normative practice in the effort of liberation. What is interesting about these forms of land transition that oppose the segregation of land from black and racialized people is that while joined up there very much of politics of land from below from actually garden from actually growing. These are examples of on the land or on the ground change rather than institutional change for people are turning to real forms of practical change. Similarly, land back is an indigenous led decentralized and ground up movement across North America that seeks sovereignty and indigenous governance and returning people to land relations and for finding their place in the systems of life. As Beverly Jacobs an indigenous law professor at the University of Windsor explains indigenous laws are always about responsibilities from them to land. It's constitutive relationships and reciprocates both land back and black lead agro ecological initiatives are examples of urban and rural land based place worlds for bottom up freedom work constitutes the normative political ground for governance and transition. So this is an example we might take one that we mentioned briefly in the session this morning with the land in our names lion, which is a UK based organization. The inequities of land tenure in the UK or 50% of the land in the UK is owned by 1% of the population and 99% of the land is farmed by Roman that is farmed is farmed by white farmers, and they're seeking to use this organization as a means to address reparation and reparation responsibilities through growing food. And so beginning in a different kind of place, then through the institutional apparatus is a kind of policy chip or policy chip. So I come to my third provocation to finish. Just transition requires pluriversal transformation. If we begin as I've been arguing with specific grounded place based land relations and they're human ensembles as practical and political geographies with your eyes and situated land governance and just land transition. Then we're facing with the political power. Place worlds do not seek to rationalize a universal approach to the judicating just transition. They emerge from specific ensembles and situated relations. All are focused on building flourishing and thriving for life is precious life is precious and breathing as a place. They're not concerned with top down institutionalized frameworks for land quality. What we're faced with and said is a plurality of place roads, a world of many. In the terms of decoloniality were faced with the pluriverse. Pluriversality is a concept that's been around for some time and decolonial scholarship pluriversality renounces the conviction that the world must be conceived as a unified totality, in order for it to make sense. Pluriversality views the world instead as an interconnected diversity, a world in which many worlds coexist. So notion and decolonial analysis differences as I've suggested already are not simply a function of cultural perspectives on one world that lies outside us, but are constitutive enactments of multiple material worlds that human and non human entanglements making perform the pluriversal argument is not abstract or esoteric. It's a practical one that contests the reductive extract of this logic of contemporary world territorialization. Its ontological emphasis resists what John law terms the one world world, a world that privileges itself as the arbiter of explanation and reproduction and which rendering itself legitimate precludes the possibility of other horizons and ways of life. An analytic option here emphasizes ontological plurality of land, so as to recognize the many different enactments and sets of relations that constitute possibilities of life. As John law writes, if we live in a single container world within a universe in which nature has a definite and natural form. You might imagine a liberal way of handling the power saturated encounters between different kinds of people and our interpretations of the world. But if we live instead in a multiple world of different enactments, if we participate in a pluriverse, then there will be there can be no overarching logic or liberal institutions diplomatic or otherwise to mediate between the different realities. Instead, there are contingent more or less local and practical engagements. And that's it. The ground of politics and action comes not from a removed ability to adjudicate or discriminate frameworks, but from the actual relations that constitute possibilities of lively. Care, flourishing, thriving, etc. The ground for just or fair relations is then a politics of so called is not then sorry is not then a politics of separation and decision. But the actual situated positions of living, breathing, eating, loving, disputing that come from earthbound from land ecologies of care. The fostering transformative relations of care is the political responsibility of land governments and just transition. And so I end maybe with a fourth provocation that came to me a few just this morning, where I was like I was thinking about transitions is the language of transition sufficient to meet the demands of a contemporary land politics. It's something it's just a bit more transformative. Is there a difference between the transition, when we shift the transition into institutions, or do we need something much more radical than the language, the transition can provide, and perhaps transformation is a different way of conceptualizing political responsibility. So I'll end there. Thank you very much for your attention in a sweaty. All right. I think there is.


talking to y'all and the camera's not on. Morning everybody, it is, I don't know what time I am. I don't know, I don't know, it's Sunday morning. It's not raining at the moment, but it is overcast. It is 10.37 a.m. I think we're just having a quiet day at home. I don't think we're going anywhere or doing much. I'm in my Circa throwback, 1970s, 1980s, Velour sweats, I know, right? But they're comfy, I don't know what to tell y'all. They're comfy, I love the color. It's also a medium. Fun fact, before I started this journey, when COVID first started, I was an extra larger, an XXL. Yeah, anyway, as I was saying earlier, some of my friends have been playing with gessoing through stencils onto thin papers and then coffee dying or staining the paper after the gesso is dry. Now, I have a lot of stencils, not only design stencils, I love to collect them, so that wasn't a problem. And I had some dictionary paper from a dictionary I took apart. Now, I think my friends were mostly using rice paper and or tissue paper, maybe parchment, I'm not sure, of which I have, of course, all of those, but I thought, I've got this dictionary paper. One, I wonder what it would do. Two, I wonder, is there going to be a difference between stenciling on the dictionary paper that's already been distressed and died versus one that hasn't and then distressing or dying it afterwards.  These ones were already dyed. This is a stencil from my friend KP. And I did a few of those. This is one of my stencils called, I think it's called Crosses. So those were already distressed. When I did those, I did a bunch of plain, there we go, plain dictionary pages that hadn't been distressed yet. I did them right before Thanksgiving, so they've been dry for a few days. And just now, I had made some extra coffee this morning, I let it cool, and I just dumped it all over the papers. Now, my cookie sheets are weathered. I think that's a good word. Maybe it's a good thing we had to take too. They've been used a lot for distressing paper and fabric in a lot of different ways with lots of different pigments and mediums. So when I do this kind of distressing invariably, some of that other old stuff gets picked up because I don't clean them. I leave them weathered and seasoned, which I enjoy. So what exactly is going to happen? I don't know, probably some unexpected, but it's going to be exciting to find out. And so we're going to do that.  That's like old ink that's gotten wet because I put the coffee on there. So we'll leave that to sit probably at least overnight and we'll find out what happens, I guess in the morning. I'll be back. Because they're in the trees there somewhere. But that's a lot of crows, a murder of crows. Yeah. We have no shortage of wildlife around here. All right, let's go home. Because now my knee is like, I'm done. Hey everybody, it is Monday morning, November 29th, 9.53 AM. So I've already done my sort of to-do list for the week, which is downstairs. I'm going to try to limit my trips out of the house, not for any other particular reason other than I just hate running errands. Fun fact.  Anyway, I have physical therapy on Wednesday this week and my booster shot on Thursday. So yeah, I'm going to try to get all of my errands I need doing before Thursday morning because that's when I have my booster shot just in case I feel like crap afterwards. I need to do the social media posts for the week. I've already done the Christmas shopping that I can do from Amazon for the two girls and Becca and Jenny, I'll let Bob to do the boys or we'll do it later. And yeah, otherwise it's a quiet day. We have been planning on or doing calendar stuff this morning for the holidays. I'm trying to write things down because December will get really busy. I have these two rings here that I found recently in my jewelry box after my mom passed away. I don't know where they came from. I'm pretty sure this one at least is from my mom. I don't know where this other one is from. I'm pretty sure this might be costume jewelry but I'm going to take them in to the jewelry store. I have to go there anyway because I need to get my wedding ring resized because it is like, it is really loose. So yeah, that's kind of in the back of my mind. Will it happen this week? I don't know, but it's going to happen at some point. My paper's coffee dried paper experiment is still drying. Yeah, so all the things for the things because of the things, right? Okay, only one of them was dry, which was this one. And remember what I said yesterday and yesterday's clip? These, I only put coffee on these and then whatever other colors, dark or light or whatever were picked up from the seasoning, quote unquote, on the cookie sheet. So that is how that one turned out, which I think it actually is pretty cool. These are how the others are turning out. And it's interesting that the Gesso, I think because it was prior to previously dry, isn't picking up a lot of the coffee and or ink stain. I got my friend Leslie helped out with her issues she had with her computer and a computer file last night. My coffee dye papers are still drying. I got the posts done. I got the dishes done. You can hear the dishwasher in the background. I also just got off the phone with what's probably going to be my new podiatrist next week and I have an appointment next Tuesday to have that first visit and talk about getting new custom orthotics because my knees bothering me because my feet aren't supported. Cause yeah, it's all connected. Doctors, have I mentioned that? All right, I'm going to sit down for a minute or more than a minute and I'm going to put my foot up and rest, maybe put some ice on it because we will go walking later but I'm going to get it as feeling as good as I can before we go do that. It's probably a good idea. I'll be back. I'm going to come in here and turn the lights on. We are waiting for Mr. Bob to finish on his last work call of the day, I think. We need to go walking. He wants to look at a couple of things on the computer for Christmas gifts. I ordered for the girls already. We're looking for some kind of couples gift or we got a shop for the boys. So it's just always a problem, right? Anyway, I'm going to come in here for a second while he's on his call. I get asked a lot about my diet. I'm losing weight and I'm going to hesitate to call it a diet. You know, I'm just careful about what I eat. I drink my bone broth every day. If I forget, I can really feel it. I did just cut my nails today but if you've been watching the clips at all then you've noticed my, they got pretty long. No cracks. The one nail that's cracked, which is that one. I don't even know if you can see that. Hold on. I'll go over here, maybe in the light where it's, you know under the light, this one. So that's not from bad diet. That's because when I, 1984, right before I met my husband, I locked my finger in a corridor. I was coming off a three day shift. Night shift, I hadn't slept in the three days and I was tired and yeah, whole nail came off, broke my finger. I had longer acrylic nails at the time, like it was a thing, anyway. I damaged the nail bed, that's why that one cracks. Anyway, when I do snack, because it's not that I don't snack, I have a low calorie protein bar or some fruit, occasionally some nuts and of course my bone broth and yeah, I just, I'm very careful about what I eat. I have, I also, when I eat too, I go to the doctor and I am honest with all of them about my health journey and why I'm doing what I'm doing and what I'm doing and yeah, I've got an appointment with a podiatrist, like I said, which I'm looking forward to. It's way past time to update my custom orthotics and so we will get that done. I can't wait for these to dry, sorry, distracted. Anyway, so yeah, it's gonna be good. There's one more piece of paper sticking out of my prayer. That's for the podiatrist. I take this downstairs. Anyway, so it's all good and I'm waiting for Bob to just finish his job today. We're gonna go walking, look for the Christmas gifts. He's feeling okay, I'm not pain free, but it's much less pain post shot. The physical therapy and the new orthotics should help tremendously and yeah, I just wanna encourage you all to do for you. Take care of yourself, go to the doctor if you need to get what exercise you can, eat healthier, do some art to work out the stress and the pain and physical mental. Like let's just work on what we can do to take care of ourselves, right? All right. Hey you guys, it's a little dark here, but that's okay. So we didn't even get out of the neighborhood before we had more bad news to report to the HOA person who we happened to see just come home and be in her driveway. We only got a couple of houses down and we saw what appeared to be packaging from a delivery that was ripped open, tossed aside in the woods and it had the address on it so I walked down to the house and said, I don't know if this just fell out of your trash can because today was garbage day or if you had a package stolen and they took the item and left the packaging. She had a package stolen.   Really? Really? God. Tuesday morning, November 30th. I only know that because tomorrow is the first of December. Anyway, it's 9.15 a.m. and I have decided instead of doing all my errands and physical therapy tomorrow that that was probably a really bad idea because I don't know how my knee is gonna feel after therapy.  My wedding ring is too big, just FYI. I've lost so much weight that my ring is huge and so I need to go get it resized and so but I'm not gonna do that today. If my knee is feeling okay, I might go do that tomorrow. Hang on, I need to set the blower or the window's gonna fog up, hold on. All right, so I've been practicing some of my lessons from the Felix Scheinberger class I'm taking at Domestika. I did this, where are we? Got that, based on his lessons from the class. No, I'm not gonna explain what I did or how I did it because you gotta go take his class. I'll link it below. But I do love the way it turned out. Very expressive, which is the point. I also was playing with, and this is not part of his class, but I got the idea because of something in his class, a lesson in his class to take some of my inks, not acrylic inks, because I don't want him to dry up in here and clog, but the water soluble inks that I have, specifically the brown tones, and put them into some water brushes. And I have sepia and black mixed together and then walnut and black. The sepia and walnut are slightly different colors. The sepia is very much more red and the sepia is the ink I used here. Anyway, I mix them together and they work just great. I'll let you know as we go forward how they work in the pen, do they dry out, do they ruin the pen, do these leak all over the place? Like, let's hope not, but you know. Anyway, also my gesso through a stencil, coffee, dyeing, paper experiment. Some of the pages are still wet. They're up there in the back. You can see them in the background. But I do have enough that are dry that we can go over a couple of things. So hang on. So we're gonna go over this one first. These are both using the same stencil for my friend KP, which is a stencil girl stencil. And this one was stenciled with white gesso onto dictionary paper that had already been coffee dyed quite a few weeks ago. And this one was stenciled with gesso onto dictionary paper that hadn't been dyed with anything yet. I let it dry and then I coffee stained it. Now, you will notice in both of these, there's some purple on this one. There's some pink on this one. My cookie sheets are well, as I say, seasoned. And I do a lot of distressing in them with different colors and pigment powders and water-soluble materials. I don't clean them. I let whatever is seasoning is going on in the bottom of the cookie sheet when I go to do a new round of distressing to have it purposefully, interestingly, affect my papers. For instance, I can see all that. How cool is that? And by the way, it looks a bit more purple than it does in real life. This one, you can see the big pink that got there because there it is right there. There must have been something red on the cookie sheet. Now, this one is a fish fossil stencil. And I remember where I got this. It might be from Stencil Girl, I don't remember. This one, again, was done on paper that had already been distressed a few weeks ago with white gesso. This is how it dried up. This one, I stenciled the fish on the paper, let the gesso dry and then distressed it afterwards. And again, do I like one over the other? Not really. I like them both. I do think this one, where you gesso first, is more interesting. And it did also pick up more interesting colors and patterns from the cookie sheet. Now that may be because it was just wetter than when I did this one. But because this one doesn't look like it got super wet, whereas this one got drenched. And you can see this one underneath here. Look how red this one is. That's because obviously there was something red on the cookie sheet. But they all turned out interesting. You can see this one, this is one of my stencils from my Etsy shop. This one was done on paper already distressed. This one was done on paper that I distressed it afterwards. So I, it's an interesting idea. I really like it. I can't wait for the other ones to do it. I have all these dictionary papers from taking a dictionary apart. And as any of you know, who have done that, the paper's pretty thin and I wanted to see what would happen. Plus it already has the text on there. So that gives it some more interest. I like the way it turned out. I would recommend trying it if you want some homemade distressed, interesting papers to work with in your artwork and in your collage. I don't generally make a whole bunch of journals. Usually when I do this kind of thing, this is gonna end up being torn up at some point and used on a journal pager in some kind of mixed media application. But maybe you wanna just have that be a cover of a journal or something. It would work for that too. Anyway, give it a try. And I just, you know, maybe your normal cup of coffee wasn't anything special. I use cheap coffee for this. So coffee from maybe the dollar store or if you are traveling, I never drink the hotel room coffee.  All right, that's it for the minute. I'm going to finish watching my soap opera and go check the mail, I guess. I think I'm done. Last month of 2021, it's gone by very fast. As you can hear in the background, I've got laundry going, doing some stuff on social media. Hang on, let me get the cell phone holder so I don't have to hold the phone up the whole time. That's better, hands-free. Move that out of the way. Okay, it is 9.16 a.m. Exactly. All right, so anyway, I got some stuff on social media done this morning, some posts on the Facebook groups. I created a couple of different documents for date stickers for next year. One is just plain, it just has the date and one has the date with a creative inspiration word. That I'm going to use for next year and at least in one of my daily books and I'm going to continue with doing two daily drawing books. One that has some collage and a quote and a little quick sketch and one that just has a sketch. So I'm going to continue with that next year. I'm already ready to go. Anyway, the patrons got the list with the word and everybody in my Facebook group, A Life of Art and Self Expression got the file without the words. Now, or they're going to. Did I remember to put it over there? I will check that in a minute. Anyway, yeah, so Patreon is not very expensive. It's like $2 a month and I'll put the link down below. It's also in my link tree list of links and you get periodic downloads from me. I try to post as often as possible my daily work and what I'm doing. There is also an private unlisted YouTube channel for patrons that I'm trying hard right now to be very regular and consistent with putting video up for them.  Here's me blathering on. So I don't know if you'd like to hear my blather. Maybe anyway, you can't get that channel if you're not a patron. Anyway, I'm going to check it and see and make sure I put that file over in a life of our self-expression and then I didn't forget because I have this feeling I forgot and get that fixed because it's been a day. I start physical therapy later today on my knee. So that's a thing. I also have mission inspiration video on this thing. I need to edit that and get that scheduled out on this regular YouTube channel today. And I have one or two errands to do on the way to physical therapy. So be a busy day and I have a feeling when I get home from therapy, I'm not going to want to do anything except sit on the couch. I have this feeling and then tomorrow morning I have my booster shot. So I think it's going to be two or three days of just me not wanting to do a lot. So I'm going to try to get it done this morning. Yeah. All right, I'll be back. It's 1115 ish a.m. Friday, December 3rd. I have an Etsy order that's got to go out. I don't really want to drive to the post office, but there is a mailbox walking distance from the house. I've got my knee brace on. My knee's actually doing pretty good, by the way. So we're going to walk over to that box and drop it off.  I didn't get any steps in really. I think 3,500 or something at the end of the day. That's nothing. Good morning, everybody. Oh, sorry. Good afternoon. It's 12 21 p.m. We are out obviously in the car running errands. We went to a local craft Christmas craft fair and bought a couple of things and met some people. That was great. Dropped off some real estate cards for the daughter. She got realtor of the month for the month of November just FYI. If you need to buy or sell real estate in the Portland, Oregon area, I'll leave her link down below. Anyway, shameless plug, I know. We also... As I was saying, I was headed outside to go check the mailbox because I hadn't done that yet today and we came home and had lunch. Picked up my wedding ring. Had it resized. J. Joe Jewelers. They did it quickly. They did a great job. They cleaned it up. It hasn't looked so polished and shiny in a really long time. She said it was really dirty. Come in anytime and we'll clean it for you. I think she felt bad. Anyway, it was a pretty good day, but of course we had to go to three different stores to find what we needed because you just can't go to one place and buy anything anymore. It just doesn't work that way anymore. And this is an order from Jetpens. I have particular pens that I like to use in my drawing, in particular colors and particular nib sizes. And I can never find them in the store, not in the colors that I like. And even the stores that do carry them, those particular colors must be popular because they're always out. One of them is Faber-Castell Pitpens, the brush pens, the brush pens. And this is 272. Which is a light gray. Then you have 274, which is dark. Is it warm gray? Is this cool gray? I don't know, hold on. No, they're both warm gray. This is 272. This is 274. This is my light gray. This is my dark gray. Then we have Asipia and Faber-Castell colors. That's 175 and then black. Now I also have, these are all a brush tip. I love the Faber-Castell brush tip. It really, nobody else's really does justice for the fine tip and sort of my medium tip or thicker fine tip. I like a 0.1 or end of 0.5. And I will use Faber-Castell when I can find them in the same color range. I will also use Unipen and Micron pens. You know, light gray, medium gray, CVM black. I will include the pen options that I use in the video description. If you guys are interested, let me know. Put something in the comments or I can create something over in the Facebook group. And yeah, but anyway, I needed more specifically this one. I used this one a lot. And I figured I might as well order some backups. So anyway, they came in. They're very fast. Bob is downstairs for asking the icemaker again. Our Samsung fridge. It's a love-hate relationship. Anyway, it's been an interesting week. We've just been potatoes today. I don't think we're going to go do much. It's just one of those Saturday evenings where you just wanted to sit on the couch. And we'll probably make up for it tomorrow. I'm feeling much better for my shot. I'm feeling almost 100% so it didn't last long. And my arm is still sore. That would be the leftover percentage. My arm is still a little bit sore, although it's getting better every day. Yeah, it just takes a little while. We went to the craft fair. Bob bought me this beautiful spalted wood bowl made by a local crafter for a Christmas present. And it is just gorgeous. And then I also, there was a lady there that did knitting and crocheting. And I just don't do much of it anymore, although I have done it and do do it occasionally. And she had these knitted sort of trivets, cotton trivets. You guys, you could use it as a dishcloth or you could use it for anything. It's just a flat, like. So she had this really pretty aqua color. It's cotton by the way. And so I bought three, three for $5. Like the materials cost more than that. So yeah, I was like, yeah. So I supported the local crafters a little bit. And yeah, it was all good. We dropped off the Dodgers business cards in a few places and got everything done today, which I didn't think we were going to. So anyway, I hope you've all had a great week. I hope you guys continue to have great weeks ahead and that you get through the holiday season, however you celebrate it, safely and happily and celebrating with your friends and family.  And you feel like it's something you can do. Please wear your mask and let's keep each other safe. Watch out for our communities and yeah, all of that stuff. Be decent humans, always. All right, that's it for this week. Go out and have a great day. Do something nice for yourself.  Check out the video description for relevant stuff. Like, share and subscribe. And I will see you all next week. All right, bye guys.


Welcome, I welcome you all to this lecture in the course Sandhi in Panimian Grammar. In this course, so far we have studied at Sandhi, Hal Sandhi, Visarga Sandhi and currently we are studying Swadi Sandhi. We have already studied most of the part of the Swadi Sandhi and today we shall continue studying the Swadi Sandhi and the remaining and final part of Swadi Sandhi. What is a Swadi Sandhi? Swadi Sandhi is a Sandhi which substitutes the Swadi suffixes and this substitution takes place in a specific environment of deriving a padha that is embedded in the derivation of a sentence or Vaakya. In accordance with the definition of a Vaakya, Ekating Vaakya, there has to be one thing which means that a padha which consists of Prakriti and Praktyaya, there should be at least one padha which should have thing Praktyaya, obviously with the Prakriti in the form of Dhatu. So the Vaakya should be at least of this kind where you have Pratipadika plus Swap as one padha, Pratipadika plus Swap as the other padha and Dhatu plus thing as the third padha. Now in this case, this is a Swap on the right hand side of the plus sign, this is followed by the second padha to be more specific followed by a Prakriti in the second padha. So in this case, this Swap gets substituted by some other verbal element over here and similarly in the second padha, the Swap in the padha, second padha, the final element of the Swap in the second padha comes into close proximity with the Prakriti element of the third padha and then there is some modification that happens in this Swap in this particular form and this is called Swadi Sandhi. This is the generic explanation of the Swadi Sandhi and then we also saw what is a Swadi. We said that Swadi refers to Vibhakti, 1, 4, 1, 0, 4 is the sutra which defines Vibhakti namely sup and thing. Sup is a set of 21 suffixes added after a nominal root or a Pratipadika by the sutra 4, 1, 2 and thing is a set of 18 suffixes added after a verbal root also known as Dhatu. This is stated by 3, 4, 7, 8 they are all referred to as Swadi even though Vibhakti also means some other suffixes in 5, 3, 1, 2, 27 why Swadi, sup and thing are meant and so the other example of Swadi is this. So this is the specific example of the Swadi Sandhi which explains the generic template that we saw earlier. So if you have Ramas plus Gramam plus Nayati where there are 3 padhas, Ramas the first padha, Gramam the second padha and Nayati the third padha. So sir comes at the end of the first padha which is followed by Go which is part of the prakriti in the second padha, sir is part of the sup and now this gets substituted by root first and then by u and then a and u they get substituted by o and then we get the finally derived sentence form in the form of Ramam, Gramam, Nayati. So this Ramam is a Swadi Sandhi example. Similarly if you have Ramayana, Gramas plus Gamayati where sir appears at the end of the second padha, sir is part of the sup that comes at the end of the second padha followed by Go and therefore this sir gets substituted by root first then by u and then a plus u becomes o and so we have Ramayana, Gramam and Gamayati as the finally derived sentence. These are the specific examples of Swadi Sandhi and then these are the sutras that state the Swadi Sandhi. So the ones that we have already studied are Sasajisho Ruhu, Athorora Pilata Dhaplute, Hashi Char, Bhobhagogo Apurvasya Yoshi and Hali Sarvesham. We have studied these sutras in a lot of detail. Now let us study in this particular lecture the remaining sutras namely Roshupi, Rori, Dhalope Purvasya Nirgonaha, Itatta Dosulopo Akauranai Samahse Hali, Sochi Lope Chet, Padapuranam, Prathamayo Purvasavarnaha and Nadiji. While we study Roshupi we shall also study another sutra Ahan but we shall do that in a while from now. First let us take up the sutra Roshupi for study. Roshupi has got two padas Raha and Asupi. Raha is one slash one of Ruh which refers to the sound Ruh. Asupi is seven slash one of Asup which means something that is not a sup or other than sup. And so Asupi means immediately before something that is not a sup. The words continued from the previous sutras are Ahan six slash one of Ahan meaning in place of and Prathasya six one of Prath. So the meaning of the sutra is the following the final element in the word Ahan which means a day sound Nuh which comes at the end of Ahan is substituted by sound Ruh when something other than a sup follows immediately after. I repeat final element in the word Ahan that is sound Nuh is substituted by sound Ruh when something other than the sup follows immediately after. So here we have an example where we have Ahan plus Gana Nuh comes at the end of Ahan and also Prath. So this is substituted by Ruh so we have Ahar Gana and finally Ahar Gana Roh Asupi. And then we have another sutra Ahan eight to sixty eight which says the following this sutra has got only one Prath Ahan that is six slash one of Ahan which means in place of the words continued are Ruh one slash one of Ruh sound Ruh and Prathasya. So the sutra means the final element in the word Ahan that is Nuh is substituted by sound Ruh at the end of a Prath. So I repeat final element in the word Ahan that is sound Nuh is substituted by sound Ruh and that is two at the end of a Prath. So here we have a case Ahan plus Biham where Biham is a consonant beginning suffix and so Ahan gets the term internal Prath. So this Nuh comes at the end of the Prath so this Nuh is substituted by Ruh and then this Ruh is further substituted by Ruh so we have Ahu Biham and then this Ruh and this Ruh there is Guna Sandhi that replaces both these vowels so we have Ahoh plus Biham and so we get Ahoh Biham. Now there is a Vartika which restricts the Ruh substitution of Ahan in a typical environment earlier we saw Ahar Guna where Ruh was not replaced by U. So Ruh is replaced by U when Ruh, Prathri and Rathantara they follow. So we have the Vartika saying Anho Ruh Vithau, Ruh, Prathri, Rathantaraeshu iti Vacham. The meaning is the Ruh substitution in place of Ahan takes place only when following words follow Ruh, Prathri and Rathantara in case of a compound. So we have Ahan plus Ruh, Nuh is substituted by Ruh so we have Aharuh plus Ruh then this gets substituted by U and then there is Guna Sandhi so we have Ahorup and then also we have Ahorathra and Ahorathantara and that is why in Ahar Guna Ruh does not get substituted by U it remains as Ruh. Now let us go to the next sutra Ruhri. There are two padas in this sutra. This is 8, 3, 14. There are two padas in the sutra Raha and Rih. Raha is 6 slash 1 of Ruh referring to the sound Ruh which means in place of sound Ruh and Rih is 7 slash 1 of Ruh that is sound Ruh once again which means immediately before sound Ruh. The word that continues is Lopah that is 1 slash 1 of Lopah meaning deletion as substitute. So the meaning of the sutra is this immediately before the sound Ruh in place of sound Ruh substitute 0 or deletion. I repeat immediately before the sound Ruh in place of sound Ruh substitute 0 or deletion. So we have Punar plus Ramathe as the example. Here we have Ruh at the end of the padha Punar followed by Ruh at the beginning of the second padha. In this case Ruh gets deleted and so we get Punar plus Ramathe as the next step of derivation and the derivation continues. The derivation does not end here. This is not the finally derived form. We need one more sutra to be studied in order to complete this derivation and that next sutra is this. Dhralope Purvasya Nirgonaha. This sutra consists of four padhas Dhralope Purvasya Nirgaha and Anaha. Dhralope is 7 slash 1 of Dhralope. This means environment of the deletion of Dhr as well as Ruh and 7th case means immediately before this environment Purvasya is 6 slash 1 of Purva which in this case means in place of an earlier element. Nirgaha refers to 1 slash 1 of Nirgaha which means long vowel as the substitute and Anaha is 6 slash 1 of An which means in place of. So the sutra means immediately before the environment of the deletion of Dhr and Ruh which eventually is Dhr and Ruh respectively only in place of the earlier An substitute the long vowel. I repeat immediately before the environment of the deletion of Dhr and Ruh in place of the earlier An substitute the long vowel. So here are the examples Punar plus Ramate we had seen this example Punar plus Ramate and because of Rory this Ruh gets deleted and so we have Punar and so we have Punar plus Ramate and now this Ruh is the environment because of which this Ruh got deleted. So when this environment follows the previous vowel this Ruh in Nuh this gets lengthened. So in this place comes a long vowel and so we get Punar and Ramate as the finally derived output. Similarly, we have Harihi plus Ramyaha as the basic input and the finally derived output is Hari Ramyaha remember this is not the nominative or accusative dual of the word Hari. This is the nominative or nominative singular of Hari, Harihi. But when it comes into contact with this Ramyaha this becomes Hari. The basic input is Shambhu and then comes Rajati and the Sandhi form is Shambhu, Rajati. Now also let us look at the example where Dhr is deleted by the environment of another Dhr coming right immediately after. Here is the example Leha plus T and this is the participle suffix we are deriving the past passive participle Leha plus T this herb gets substituted by Dhr by the sutra hodhaha then because of this Dhr this T gets substituted by Dhr. So we have this sutra namely Jashastha thodhaha which does this. So we have Leha plus Dhr then Shtonastu who applies and substitutes this Dhr by Dhr so we have Leha plus Dhr then Dhode Lopaha A313 applies and substitutes this Dhr by 0. So we have Leha plus Dhr and then the that is E that comes immediately before this Dhr is lengthened so we have Leha plus Dhr. So this Dhr is the environment in which this Dhr earlier Dhr got deleted or 0 substitution. So when this environment follows the previous vowel is lengthened so we have Leha plus Dhr that is Leha as the Pratipadika derived as finally derived output of this derivation process. This is how Dhrarape Purvasya Dirkona applies and the final output in case of Punaramate is Punaramate. There is one observation that needs to be made. So this particular derivation proposes an exception to the Asidda principle. Generally the output of the Sutra in the Asidda section does not become the input for any previous Sutra and within the Asidda section also the output of any latter Sutra does not become the input for any previous Sutra but here we see first the output of the latter Sutra in the Asidda section namely Stranashtu becoming the input for the earlier Sutra namely Dhode Lopah and Dhr gets deleted and then we see that the output of A313 namely the deletion of Dhr and R becoming the input for 6 3 1 1 11 and so there is this exceptional behaviour as far as these Sutras are concerned and the Asidda section is concerned. We also observed that there is one more example of this kind that we shall study in the Prakriti Bhava. Let us continue studying the Swadhisandhi Sutras. These Sutras are primarily discussed in the Vaya Karana Siddhanta Kavmudhi. The next Sutra is Etattadho Sulopu Ako Ranayasamase Hali. This Sutra has got 5 padhas. The first one is Etattadho which is 6 slash 2 of Etattadhu which consists of Etat and Tad the two pronouns Sulopah is 1 slash 1 of Sulopa deletion of Su nominative singular suffix. Akoho is 6 slash 2 of Ak meaning without sound k. Anayasamase is 7 slash 1 of Anayasamase meaning different compound than the negation compound or nayasamase and Hali is 7 slash 1 of Hal which means immediately before a consonant. Anayasamase means in the negation compound or in the nayasamase. So the meaning of this particular Sutra we see that Sul as per as Etattad is concerned is deleted in the right hand side environment of Hal and when Etattad is not part of nayasamase. So the meaning of the Sutra is this immediately before a consonant Hali in place of Sul which is part of Etattad which do not have sound k as their part Akoho and which are not a part of a negation compound nayasamase. So in place of Sul substitute 0 or deletion I repeat immediately before a consonant Hali in place of Sul substitute 0 or deletion Sulopaha and this Sul should be a part of Etattad. It should not have the sound k as their part Akoho and they should not be part of a negation compound Anayasamase. So here is the example Esha plus Sul this is the nominative singular suffix plus Ramaha Esha Ramaha and so now this Sul suffix gets deleted because this is Hal following this is Etattad and so we have Esha Ramaha as the finally derived output of this particular Sutra 61-132 similarly Sul plus Sul plus Shamhoho and this Sul comes immediately after Sul this is still a Pradha so this is part of Etattad this is not an aisamase there is no k anywhere here so this Sul gets deleted by this particular Sutra and so the finally derived output is Sashamhoho Esha Ramaha and Sashamhoho. In both these cases Etattad and Tat they do not have k as their part and they are not part of the negative compound and so Sul which is part of Etattad takes the form of zero or deletion similarly Sochilope Chet Pada Puranam. This Sutra is 61-134 and it is stating the deletion of Sul after Sir that is Tad once again in a further limited environment namely the metrical quarter completion the paddhas in this particular Sutra are 5 Sash which is 6 slash 1 of Sash that is part of Sir and Sul is continued 61 of Sul in place of Lopaha is 1 slash 1 of Lopah which is a substitute 0 substitution this is also continued Lopah is 7 slash 1 of Lopah that is in the deletion Chet means if and Paddha Puranam means metrical quarter is complete so the meaning of the Sutra is in place of Sul which is part of Sash that is nominative singular of the Pranam Tad substitute 0 or deletion if after the deletion the metrical quarter is complete I repeat in place of Sul substitute 0 or deletion if after the deletion the metrical quarter gets complete and this Sul should be a part of the form of Tad so Sash here is an example Sir plus Sul plus Asha so we have this Sul gets deleted getting deleted and so we have Sir plus 0 plus Asha and then there is Sandhi of these 2 vowels which is of Ruddhi Sandhi so we have Sai Asha as the resultant output now there is this metrical quarter that is fulfilled Sai Asha Dasara Thiramaha this is a quarter of Anushtubh which requires 8 letters and so we have Sai Asha comprising of 2 letters had there been no Sandhi then there would have been Sir Asha 3 vowels that would not complete the metrical quarter now it completes so we have Sai Asha Dasara Thiramaha so Chilope Chet Padapuranam now let us come back to another set of Sutras namely Prathamayoho Purvasavarnaha so Prathamayoho Purvasavarnaha is now referring to not Ruh but referring to the other vowels when the Prakriti is preceded by particular kinds of sup suffixes this is different than the previous ones and that is why stated at the end so Prathamayoho is 7 slash 2 of Prathamayoho meaning in the first 2 cases that is in the Prathamayoho and the Dvitiya cases Purvasavarnaha is 1 slash 1 which means homogeneous sound of the earlier sound words continued are Akaha 5 slash 1 of Akk, Achi 7 slash 1 of Achh, Dirgaha 1 slash 1 of Dirgha and of course Ek of Purva Parayoho which means 1 substitute in place of 2 substituents earlier and later so the meaning of the Sutra is this in the first 2 cases that is Prathamayoho and Dvitiya when immediately before Achh any vowel appears Akk then in place of both the earlier and later sounds substitute the long vowel of the homogeneous of the earlier vowel I repeat in the first 2 cases that is Prathamayoho and Dvitiya when immediately before Achh that means any vowel appears Akk then in place of both the earlier and later sounds namely Akk and Achh substitute the long vowel of the homogeneous earlier vowel namely Akk. So, here we have Akk plus Achh in 1, 2 and 2, 2 for example and so this Akk and Achh will be substituted by the Dirgha of Akk this will be the output generated. So, if you have Hari plus Au, Hari has got E which is part of Akk, Au is an Achh. So, now in place of both of them generally eco energy might apply but now this Sutra says that in place of both of them substitute the long of this previous vowel. So, we have Har plus E E substituting both these E and Au and so we get the finally derived form Hari. Similarly, Bhanu plus Au 1, 2 or 2, 2 generally this is the scope of application of eco energy but this is cancelled by Prathamayoho Purva Sabarana and we get in place of both Au and Au the long homogeneous vowel of the previous sound that is Au that is Bhanu as the output generated Prathamayoho Purva Sabarana. The negation of this is stated in this particular Sutra 6, 1, 1, 0, 4. There are 3 padas in the Sutra N, Aad and Ichi. That means not the negation Aad is 5 slash 1 of A which means immediately after A and Ichi is 7 slash 1 of H. H means all vowels minus A. So, Ichi means immediately before H. The words continued are Prathamayoho and Purva Sabarana and Dirgaha. The meaning of the Sutra is immediately before H when A comes in the first 2 cases then in place of both do not substitute the long vowel homogeneous of the earlier. So, if we have Rama plus Au where Au is followed by Ich generally this is the scope of application of Vrudhisandhi and we would have got Ramau but then Prathamayoho Purva Sabarana comes in and says that in place of both of them substitute the long homogeneous vowel of the previous sound. In this case it would be Au and we would get the form Rama. But this Sutra negates this and says that in place of both of them do not do the Purva Sabarana Dirgaha rather continue with the normal Sandhi and then we substitute Vrudhi in place of both and so we have the form Ramau as finally derived output. Similarly Dirgaha Jasicha this Sutra is 6105 and this is also a negation of Prathamayo Purva Sabarana. This Sutra has got 3 patterns Dirgaha which is 5 slash 1 of Dirgha which means immediately after a long vowel. Jasicha is 7 slash 1 of Jas. Jas is the nominative plural suffix. Chha means and Prathamayoho is 7 slash 2 Purva Sabarana Dirgaha and N. So, and also the word Ichi continues. So, the meaning of the Sutra is this and immediately before itch and just when a long vowel comes in the first two cases then in place of both do not substitute the long vowel that is homogeneous of the earlier. I repeat and immediately before itch and just when a long vowel comes in the first two cases then in place of both do not substitute the long vowel that is homogeneous of the earlier and here are the examples Nadi plus us this is the example of Jas. So, Nadi plus us and we do not apply the Purva Sabarana Dirgha we applied rather Yana Desha and so we get the form Nadiaha. Similarly, Nadi plus Au. So, this is the drivachana and this is the itch following and so Nadi plus Au once again Purva Sabarana Dirgha does not happen we apply the Yansandhi and so we get the form Nadiau. Similarly, Chamu plus Au and we get the form Chamu and we get the form Chamvau and not Chamu. Similarly, Chamu plus us and we get the form Chamvaha and not Chamu. In all these cases in the absence of this particular sutra we would have got the form Nadi over here Nadi again in this case also Chamu in this case and Chamu in this particular case. This would be undesirable. So, these undesirable forms are avoided are negated are explained by this particular negation Dirgha Jasicha. To summarize we studied more substitutes in place of ru which was stated as a substitute of sir at the end of a padha. They are primarily year and zero or deletion. Several occurrences like Dhartharashtra Rane can be explained using the sutras that we have studied in this particular lecture. Due to the principle of the asiddha using which the sutras are arranged in the grammar absence of Sandhi is explained. However, we studied a few exceptions to this asiddha as well. So, we close the explanation of the Swadhisandhi over here. Next we study the Prakriti Bhava in the next lecture. I thank you for your attention.


Let me get started, people can come in from the hallway if they're still out. My name is Lance, if you're here, you probably wanna learn about JSON web tokens, so you're in the right place. We're gonna talk a little bit about what they are, why they exist, and maybe who cares. So, they're tokens, they use JSON, and they're built for the web. Nevermind, scratch that, now that you're on the room. I'd like to offer you a special invite, ground floor of mine. So, I've got this idea, it's gonna be an application.  Probably your face. It's gonna fit somewhere in this like, faces as a service vertical. I think it's gonna be pretty big.  I'm calling it face page. So welcome, you're all hired. Oh, you didn't know this was an interview. I mean, you passed the code challenge when you registered for the conference, right? So we're good. And you all have faces, so the qualifications are there. So let's go. Oh, I suppose you're wondering who you'll be working with. I'm Lance Ivy. I'm based out of Portland, Oregon. So if I seem a little out of sorts, it's because I'm trying to get used to the bright solar radiation. I started professionally tinkering on the web as an unpaid developer in 2003. Joined some friends and colleagues from college on this startup idea in a small town of like 30,000 people. And started in front end, and the era of Netscape had just wrapped up. So I like opened it once, took a picture of a horribly broken rendering and made some nice tables after that. Some things happened in 2006, 2008. I became a paid Rails developer. Found my way to working on Kickstarter. Made my own share of mistakes, learned from most of them, picked up a bunch of stories. Currently, I'm working with EmpatiCo, and also building an open source project called Carrots and Offend, which is an authentication server. You can imagine a device that we're rebuilt today as a standalone service. And this is the primary learning opportunity for the talk. So let's get back to face page. Obviously, we're gonna run face page as a standard Rails application. So, here we go. We have a few meetings. We pivot, we sprint. We change task management systems. We iterate on faces and what they mean to our users and how they're gonna change the world. And then, we deploy it. It's out in the wild. Users love it. There's just one problem. People like seeing their faces on the go, and they're looking for us in the native app stores. So, easy, right? We make an API. We build out our iOS, Android apps. And maybe the app and the API are intertwined. JSON endpoints in the same controller. Or maybe they're namespace, but they're still in the same app. It's a majestic model of life. Or maybe it's a standalone deployment, but it doesn't matter. What matters is it's up in the cloud, right? It's just, it's there, it's running, it works. But something along the way has happened. We couldn't use cookies for our API. So, we implemented a quick token authentication system. So now, we've got cookies over here, tokens over there, and this uneasy feeling that there's something similar, but we can't quite put our finger on it. And we just keep going. But it turns out that we've actually implemented two authentication systems. And they're separate. So this is technical debt, but we figure we can manage. It's working, we keep moving, and just, you know, suppress those uneasy feelings into a tight little ball. Then someone on high maybe makes the decision to move to services, which, I don't know. Try it out, and we build this API gateway. But is it written in Rails? Does it speak cookies or tokens or both? Do we have to retrofit our authentication schemes into it? Are we on our own? Do we have help? Or something else? I mean, what happens now? Well, I want to take a step back and consider the problem that these cookies and tokens are actually trying to solve. How do we even get here? It's time to ask, what even is logging in? What happens? What are the cookies and tokens doing? Let's dig in. We can say it starts here with a username and password. These days, it could also be Facebook, or GitHub, or Google, or some other auth provider, but probably still at least passwords. Turns out that's not really the part we care about. What we care about is how we keep track. So here's the classic way of keeping track. Browser logs in, we send back a cookie. And browsers know about cookies. They know to include them on every request back to our domain. So every request for a face on a page is logged in. And we can show your face back. I mean, the requests that want JavaScript and CSS and images are also carrying these cookies, but that's a different talk, right? The simplest explanation for cookies is a header protocol. When the server responds with a set cookie header, the browser knows to include it back in the cookie header. Every future request. But I think it's time to consider the elephant in the room here. What kinds of cookies are these, really? I mean, when we diagram HTTP cookies, they usually look like this. Chocolate chip or raisin, maybe. Oh, what's for lunch? But this is how we should think of them, as fortune cookies with a message inside. So Rails uses these to store bits of data in the browser, and we can crack one open and see what's inside. Here's one that you might actually see in an actual Rails application. It's an encoded message with a signature. And you can split it apart on the double hyphens right there. Here's what's inside. There's a user ID, there's a CSRF token, because with cookie authentication, you need that kind of thing. And there's a signature that we can use to just make sure that it's legit. So, there we go. Cookies are headers on HTTP responses and requests that do things like transport a user ID back and forth. And that's the login story we care about right now. So what's happening with the tokens on the API side of things? Well, one common convention might look like this. The server responds to a login request with some random string in the JSON body, let's say. And again, the device sends it back on future requests, but this time in the authorization header. Now, these tokens are opaque. They're random strings. They have no meaning until we use them to find something more interesting like the user ID. And this is good, but it's not great. On the upside, like we could delete these tokens to revoke access at any point. We have some control over that. On the downside, every API query or now involves a database query. This is, by the way, how Rails sessions used to work before switching to cookies. And it was a performance problem. The browser submitted a session ID and you use that to actually find their session from the database. All right, so let's put together what we've learned. The Rails session cookie uses a cookie header, but our API tokens use the authorization header. The Rails session cookie is structured data, but the API is just an opaque random string. Now, the Rails session cookie can be verified with cryptography. The API token is security through queries. So can you imagine the best of both worlds? Chase on web tokens. It's signed structured data. This is rather similar to Rails signed cookies. We've added a third segment, the header, and this just describes the format of the token. We can decode the message. What you're looking at here are called the token claims. Now they're called claims to give you a bit of skepticism because you actually have to assert that these claims are true before you can trust it. Here's a list of common claims. You can see that they're heavily abbreviated. And the reason is because JSON web tokens are designed to fit in headers and other character-limited small spaces, so they have to save on bytes for your more interesting content. All the claims on the left are what I consider metadata. Their claims necessary to verify that a token may be used appropriately in different situations, and I'll just go through these. The issuer describes the party that generated and signed the token. Audience describes the party that the message is intended for. These might be the same thing, it might not. Issued at is when the token was created, and expiration is when the token should be ignored. They can have a lifetime. The claims on the right are what I consider the payload, and this is the information that you probably want to extract for your business logic. Now you can put anything you want in here as long as the issuer and the audience agree on what it means. But the common one that a lot of issuers and audiences agree on is the subject, and this is meant to identify the party that the message is about, or the person who owns the token, the person who has it, and this is where we put the user ID. So the JSON web token standard is a pretty generic thing. It's just a spec for sending secure messages, but one of its primary uses is identity. It actually evolved in the context of OAuth and OpenID Connect, and you can see a lot of that in the claims that are built into it. So we can actually imagine it kind of like Rails Cookies and API tokens. Think of it as an ID card. Just like an ID card, it makes a number of claims, and it contains some security features. This ID card has an issuer, it's from the internet, it has a subject, name, has expiration and issued dates, and it has this pretty sweet little official stamp. Security. But it's actually up to you to check the card and detect forgeries to make sure that you can actually take this identification. So here's how you do it. One, is it from someone that we recognize as an authority? Check the issuer. Two, was it intended for me? Check the audience. Has it expired? Check the expiration. Is it a forgery? Check the signature. Can you recreate the signature based on those values? And last but not least, was it generated before or after that time we had to change our secret because we published it on GitHub? And you can check issued at for that. If you can answer those five questions, you're in pretty good shape. And the good news is that you can get a library to just do this for you. Okay, so we've learned that JSON web tokens are secure messages, like a Rails signed session cookie. We've learned that they contain claims that we need to verify, and we've learned about the most important claims and what they represent. So let's talk about what we can do with them. We've already mentioned identity tokens, so let's continue from there. One of the problems we had in our face page app was the duplicate authentication system. So let's see how JSON web tokens can help. First, let's add JSON web tokens to our comparison table. So while the Rails cookies are tied to the cookie header and the API tokens use the authorization header, our JSON web tokens are ready for either. They don't care. The Rails cookies were structured data signed with cryptography, and that's actually pretty good. So our JSON web tokens share those characteristics. So if we use an identity JSON web token for login, it might look like this. Browser submits the login. Rails responds with a JSON web token in a cookie. The JWT contains the user ID as the subject. Now in future requests, the browser just sends it back in the cookie. And this looks pretty familiar. And that's a good thing. We actually haven't changed our headers or the relationship between the browser and the server. We're still using cookies. We've just changed the format of the message inside the cookie. And on the API, we can drop it in here as well. There's no change to the client. They're still just sending a string back and forth. But now the string is a JSON web token. It has structured data. It has meaning. It's not random. And the server can do something with it. So this is the JSON web token solution. One token, two headers, one authentication system. It doesn't matter whether the server finds the token inside a cookie or inside an authorization header, it can still handle that value exactly the same and set the current user for the duration of the request. Problem number two in our face page app. Previously, the API had to execute a query on every request just to discover who was making it. And now our API can verify the JWT with the claims and the cryptography. So this replaces a network-bound database bottleneck process with a straightforward CPU-bound calculation. This will perform faster. This will scale better. This will introduce less variation into response times and generally just have fewer failure modes. Problem number three. Our cookies were implemented for Rails by Rails. Now, don't get me wrong. The default Rails session store is wonderful. It works, it's hidden, it is secure, it is very well-designed, and it does the job it needs to do. But it is tightly coupled to Rails, it is tightly coupled to cookies, and it's kind of tightly coupled to majestic monoliths. So if any of those things don't work for you, you have to ask yourself, what's next? JSON web token libraries are implemented in at least 20 languages. They're decoupled from the cookies. And they contain claims that you can use to build any kind of distributed architecture. So they're more flexible. It's a more general-purpose solution. Problem number four. In a distributed architecture, you might find yourself sharing secrets so that when you sign a message with one system, you can verify it on another. And this involves trusted back channels, like copy and paste. Or configuration management systems, and now that the secret exists in more places, it's a bigger attack surface. If any one place is compromised, that secret can be used to attack all the other places as well. So what do JSON web tokens offer? They support asymmetric key algorithms like RSA. Now the signature process used by Rails to sign a cookie is called HMAC. You give it a salt, it hashes the cookie. You take that salt, you rehash it later, and it verifies. Now the required setup for RSA is a little bit different. The server signing the key, signing the token needs a special RSA key, not just a random salt. It uses the private key to sign the token, but then it can actually publish the public key on a free and open HTTP endpoint using a spec like JSON web keys. When some audience, some other server, receives the message, what it can do is go fetch the public key, use that to verify, and then cache that forever. So one HTTP call automatically shares the secret, but it's not a secret, it's the public key. So this investment means that you don't need to share secrets. It's a little bit more upfront than the operational cost is lower. This means there's no copy and paste between the systems, you just fetch the key over HTTP. There's no super coordinated lockstep deploy process when you need to change it on both places at the same time without dropping messages in the middle. This also reduces the attack surface. A lost secret can only attack the service that leaked it. This can actually even prepare you for some really nifty automatic key rotation stuff. I'm not gonna get into that right now, but if you're curious how that works, happy to talk about it, come find me around the conference. Problem number five. You thought you knew about how password resets worked. You generate and send a token. It's a random string. You verify it in your controller, and then you regenerate a new token to expire the old ones that you sent out and make sure that people can't hack the system. And when you think about it, this is actually a third authentication system. It works a lot like the opaque API tokens. And again, it's implemented as a one-off. So here's how I build a password reset JSON web token. First, start with a standard identity token. This contains the metadata claims and the subject. Then I add a scope claim. Now I looked around, this one doesn't seem to be standard, and I couldn't find a better one, so I'm just calling it scope. The idea here is that I'll configure my passwords controller to accept tokens with this scope, and I'll configure the rest of my application to reject tokens with this scope or any other scope that doesn't seem appropriate for them. Then I add an optimistic lock. Now an optimistic lock is where you keep some kind of version. And every time a field updates, you increment that version. Anyone who wants to make a change has to tell you what the current version is. This way you make sure that they don't overwrite something that changed without their knowledge. And you can achieve this with just using a timestamp. So that's what I've done here. I'm maintaining a user's password changed at field, which is also good for other features, and then verify it against the token. If it matches, it's a go. And this effectively has the same, this effectively also expires the old reset tokens as soon as the password changes. So here we go. Once again, we can upgrade opaque tokens into structured signed data. This is one less field on the user's table. This is one less index for your queries. But even better is that we've absorbed a third authentication system by teaching our JSON web token backend about scopes and by teaching our password controller about optimistic locks. Problem number six. Suppose that you're sending emails with survey links or some other kind of strong call to action where you need the user to click and you need to know who is making that click. So if you don't help them at all, they're gonna hit a login wall and maybe they're on their phone so they don't wanna type it in and they just come back later or they don't and your conversion drops. So maybe you implement random strings, opaque tokens, and you connect them back to the user just like the API system. I mean, this is sounding pretty familiar, right? So we can just generalize the password reset solution. All we need is a scope claim. If it sounds like I'm suggesting that we send user sessions through email, yeah, actually, that's exactly what I'm suggesting. I mean, that's basically what the randomly generated one-off random strings are doing. They're giving a login session by email. But this one is built into our authentication system. It's not a one-off implementation that you're gonna forget about. All right, problem number seven. Your application is already doing lots of stuff and you're including a lot of this common standard authentication feature stuff as if it's somehow unique. They run from the same database. They can be affected by every deploy, every upgrade, and all this complexity is in one spot which makes it a lot harder to audit your attack surface and understand where you need to remain secure. And let's not forget the always-present user God model. And JSON web tokens can help. So they were born ready for this. This is why the issuer and audience claims exist so they can be different things. And the issuer, let's imagine, takes responsibility for the account and the account might be the username and the password and the last time the password was changed and how many times they failed their login or any of that stuff. And this leaves your application responsible for a simpler user's model. It just needs to relate the user with an account. And this is actually what I learned firsthand while working on Keratin Authent which is kind of what you get if device was rebuilt as a standalone authentication service. It removes the complexity from your app, relies heavily on JSON web tokens, uses every trick I've mentioned here, and then some. The core tech is pretty stable, I think, and I've got some ideas for some advanced features. So if this is interesting to anybody, I'd love to chat about it. All right, in conclusion, these are the things I hope you take away from the presentation. One, you can use JSON web tokens right now. It doesn't matter if you have a monolith or services, you probably recognized one or more of these problems. Two, JSON web tokens have a low learning curve and a high skill ceiling. There's a lot more that you can do with them as you gain confidence. But all you need to do is start somewhere.  And maybe JSON web tokens is one of those. Pick something, learn it by doing it. Try it out and make your knowledge real. And we do have time for questions. So the question is if the user has been disabled by an admin since they logged in, how can you immediately log them out and make sure that they don't come back? You can create, for example, a blacklist and keep this temporary cache of invalidated tokens. If you choose to for critical actions, implement a revalidation. But yeah, the trade off is real. The trade off is real. If you keep authentication in a token that lives for 30 minutes or something, that's the other thing. I do recommend that these tokens have a short life and that you regenerate them frequently. So the time window for that kind of problem is small. Yeah, so again, the comment is that the checking this blacklist takes time. So I recommend deciding which endpoints are critical and revalidating for just those endpoints. There are probably a lot of things where it's okay if they can continue to read data for a few more minutes or maybe what you wanna do is protect that data and you can choose to revalidate where necessary. Well, you can try JSON web tokens in an existing app by finding any kind of opaque token and seeing how you can replace it. So that's one way to try it out. If you wanna try an authentication server, then it helps to have an app with some kind of login scheme where you just swap out where the form submits. So the form might submit to your backend and now the form submits to a different backend. Those are two ideas. Is there a drop-in replacement? There's a library called knock and knock is like devised with JWT but it's built into the monolith, right? So an authentication server is gonna run as a separate deployment but knock will use JWT as part of the same monolith. Refreshing the tokens with more tokens. So the way that I've seen is where you maintain what's called an access token and a refresh token and the access token is what you're sending to the API. The refresh token is more secure because it's not used for very much. The one thing it's used for is getting new access tokens. So let's say that your access token is good for an hour and let's say that you decide every 30 minutes way before that's gonna expire, you use the refresh token to get a new one. What you can do is build revocation into that refresh system. So the refresh maybe actually does a Redis query or a MySQL query or something to make sure that it's still okay to generate new access tokens. The dual token system means that one can have different security properties and the other is used for your really chatty protocols because it's lightweight and doesn't require queries. And they're kept in different places with different security properties. Yeah, so the comment or the idea was that if you attempt to use a token and the error is that it's expired, you might decide it's time to get a new one. And that's definitely like the fail safe. I think that aggressively refreshing them before that happens is a cleaner experience. And if you refresh well enough, you may or may not need that kind of last moment it's expired, let's get a new one thing. Yeah, that's the issue at check. So in that kind of dire situation, which we all hope isn't happening, there's really no going back. You generate a new key and start using it. And then what you do is you roll out this idea of an epoch and you say any token generated before this point in time was using an old key that we don't trust anymore. So if the issue that is before last Friday when this happened, then just throw it away and that means people are logged out. Oh, so the comment was that you might have multiple keys and so you need an epoch per key. JSON Web Tokens has a claim called key ID. So you can embed within each JWT a signature of the key that was being used. And that will let you, if you have per key revocation tell exactly which one was being used and whether it's still trustworthy. For simple login for sessions, it's just what you saw. It's the user ID. If you choose to put them in a cookie, then you need to also figure out CSRF. And you can put that CSRF token in the JWT because it's open, like you can add more stuff into it and solve those same problems. I'm actually not a big fan of keeping a lot of data in sessions anyway. So I wanna say on the slide, it was like two or three lines. It was maybe 50% longer than a Rails equivalent cookie. Some people advocate for keeping more user information in there, like are they an admin? What permissions do they have? What's their name and email? So you can save more queries that way. The downside is, as mentioned earlier, you have to decide how much you care about that information getting stale. All right, I think we're good.