Well, thank you everybody for coming today. My name is Maureen Helm. I'm a software engineer at NXP. I've been working on the Zephyr project for about a year and a half now, maybe a little bit longer than that since we launched last year at Event World. So today I wanted to come and talk to you guys about how we're using vendor house on the Zephyr project. The last, I think it was the last ELC, maybe the previous one, we had a number of people that were asking questions about, why are we doing this? What's the value in bringing in vendor house into the project? So this is kind of a follow-up to that action and to give you guys a little bit more insight into what we're doing, why we're doing it, and how we're doing it. So to start off, just a quick introduction about what the Zephyr project is for those of you that maybe aren't quite as familiar with it. The Zephyr project is an open source project hosted by the Linux Foundation targeting small footprint RTOSs, so things like microcontrollers that can scale down into devices that have single digits or so of kilobytes of flash and RAM and anywhere up that you might be interested in going. It's a cross-architecture project, and so we have participation from a number of different companies across architecture. So it's not just the ARM ecosystem, but also X86. ARC, RISC-5, extends architectures. And so we have a lot of collaboration coming from different companies and different vendors, all coming together to build a common RTOS for microcontrollers. So the Zephyr ecosystem, you can kind of look at it in sort of three different levels. Starting at the Zephyr OS itself, this is the core scheduling kernel, the threading model device, or excuse me, driver models that we have for sort of the lowest level of hardware enablement. So that includes things like platform-specific drivers, IOAPIs, file systems, networking and connectivity, so TCPIP, Bluetooth, things like that. And so that's what we think of when we talk about the Zephyr OS. So it's not just the vendor part, but it's also building up middleware stacks that we all need and have in common. Going from the OS to the project, we have a number of tools and host SDKs that we use to help make it easier for the developer to build Zephyr, so things like cross-compilers and additional features like that. And lastly, then there's the Zephyr community. So things that we would think of as partner projects or things that are building on top of Zephyr, that's where we kind of branch out into things like Zephyr.js and MicroPython and Iotivity and other projects like that, that kind of build on that framework that we construct in Zephyr. So my talk today is covering at the kind of the lowest level here, I don't have a pointer, but the lowest level underneath the kernel and the driver model. So why are we using vendor house and what exactly are they in this particular case? So the vendor house that we have at the very lowest level give us core and peripheral register definitions. So a lot of these SOCs have hundreds or thousands even different registers, register fields and things like that. Oftentimes these register definitions are part of standard enablement provided by the SOC vendor. So that's something that we can easily leverage and not have to go and build ourselves. It's a lot of kind of boring code I guess to say, but it's pretty difficult to check. So if it's something that we can reuse then they were definitely interested in reusing that. So the next thing that we get out of vendor house are what we call low level or stateless peripheral drivers. So these are bare metal that oftentimes are built upon that kind of abstract things like you're talking to a UART, how would you set the BOD rate for example? So these are really low level, they don't have any state, it's kind of up to the next level, either a higher level driver or an application to manage any kind of state for that peripheral. And then lastly you'll see in some vendor house another level called what we think of is bare metal transactional drivers. So they start to manage some of that peripheral state but they don't have any kind of ARTOS awareness at this point. So they're not aware of any kind of threading model and things like that. So as I mentioned, oftentimes these are, these house are maintained and provided by the SOC vendors and so as new SOCs come out, as bugs are found the vendors go and update these house. These are things that we don't necessarily have to maintain at the Zephyr project level. Typically we see that these house are pretty permissive in terms of licensing. I think the most common one, there are pretty few exceptions but most commonly we see a BSD3 clause licensing model which is compatible with the Apache licensing model that we have in Zephyr. And lastly, these vendor house are using other projects. So they're not unique to Zephyr and so what that means is that you can get additional maturity out of these, this other usage, right? So they've been tested in other contexts, they've been used in other ways and so oftentimes these drivers have a higher maturity level and have gone through QA testing. So in the particular case of the NXP drivers that we have in Zephyr, the HAL level, we've gone through QA testing before we even release those drivers to the public. So at the end of the day, what we're really trying to do is simplifying the process of adding new SOCs and adding new drivers into Zephyr. So naturally when you pull in something like this, there are trade-offs and as I said, having code maintained elsewhere, right? I said in the previous slide that, okay, if the vendor finds a bug in the, excuse me, updates are already made by the vendor but if we find it the project that perhaps there's a bug, it's quite a bit more difficult to go and update those things upstream. Occasionally, we do sometimes see licenses that aren't necessarily compatible or they're new. I think the one case that we've seen so far is that it was just a new license to Zephyr. It wasn't something that we had seen before. It was a standard open-source license. But within the project, we do try to have new code under the Apache 2 license and then imported code things like HALs. We've generally accepted things like BSD3 but if there's another license that we haven't seen before, then we've had to go through the process of working with the governing board to say, okay, is this license acceptable for the project and do we want to use it? And so the fact that code is used elsewhere can sometimes also be a trade-off. You might find that APIs are not necessarily compatible. It then becomes difficult to use a HAL driver, a transactional driver that the vendor provided and it just doesn't plug in to the Zephyr driver on all that we might have. Sometimes you might see that features might not be implemented. There's a feature that might be available at the API level within Zephyr that maybe isn't implemented in the lower level HAL driver. So we gain a lot of benefits from using these HALs but there are some trade-offs. So we've had quite a bit of success using a pretty wide range of HALs across the ecosystem. This is an alphabetical order and so one thing you might notice is this is not unique to ARM either. We do see a lot of ARM vendor HALs that are all built on top of something called Simpsys which I'll cover in a minute. But you also see the Intel QMSI. So we have quite a variety of HALs that we've been using successfully ranging from NXP to ST to Nordic to pretty much, I'd say probably more SoCs than not, are actually using these. There are generally three types of abstraction that we see when we're using these types of HALs. So the kind of highest level abstraction would be a transactional driver where this is the most amount of reuse that you would get from code that already exists. And this is kind of the ideal case, I think, because it's a lot less custom code that we have to write for the project. We can leverage something that's already been built, that's already been tested. And then this ends up being probably the thinnest type of driver, at least in terms of Zephyr-specific code that you would have to enable a particular peripheral or API in Zephyr. And so this is the approach that we see for the what we call MCUX, which is MCUXpresso. That applies to NXP SoCs, as well as the X86 QMSI for the Quark. So sometimes, as I said, that these transactional level APIs don't necessarily make sense or aren't the most optimal. So what you sometimes see in some of the other drivers is kind of a lower level abstraction. And in this case, this is pretty common, that you'll see it in the ST parts, where we take kind of the stateless level drivers from the HAL, or from the vendor, and then build a slightly larger shim driver for Zephyr. And then finally, kind of the lowest level abstraction, and the least amount of reuse would be just taking register definitions only. And in this case, you end up, the Zephyr driver is virtually a native driver, really the only thing you're leveraging are things like the type def structures that define the peripheral registers and their fields. And this is the approach that you'll see in the Atmel and the Nordic drivers. So a note about Simpsys. Simpsys stands for the Cortex microcontroller system interface standard. This is a standard that's defined by ARM, has a number of different components. The most common one that you'll see is Simpsys core, but there are additional components that I list here. The system view description, DSP, driver model, things like that. But for our case, core is what we're most interested in. This is a standardizing the way that you define processor core access and peripheral definitions. So what happens is that ARM provides generic header files for their Cortex-M devices. And so you'll see a Cortex-M0 header file, a Cortex-M4 header file. And these header files describe all the registers that are common across that particular core. So they're not unique to any of the vendors. And then what the vendors do is they go and build on top of that. They include the core level header file from ARM, and then they add quite a few of all the peripheral definitions. So your UARTs and your I2Cs and whatever else you've included in that SOC. So we use Simpsys in Zephyr in two different ways. So the first way is the kernel port itself. And so this is the sort of core part of Zephyr. It's not specific to any of the SOCs. And so what we do here is we can use Simpsys register accesses to access the NVIC or the SCB registers. We say and the SCB registers. And then the next method of using Simpsys in Zephyr is at the driver level. And so obviously this is where sort of the SOC level, the system, the peripheral register definitions come into play. And so these are used in the drivers. So a little bit more detail about what is the MCUXpresso SDK. You'll see in acronym quite a few different places in Zephyr MCUX. And so this is an abbreviation for the SDK. For those of you that maybe have been around for a while, this used to be the Kinetis SDK or KSDK. And when FreeScale was acquired by NXP, we were merging the portfolios. We have not just Kinetis and Cortex-M devices, but we also had LPC devices. And we started creating a common enablement across all of those. And so we couldn't really call that the Kinetis SDK anymore. We started calling that the MCUXpresso SDK. So now you'll see common enablement across multiple families of SOCs from NXP. So the SDK provides at the very core the peripheral register definitions, which are compatible with Simpsons Core. What's particularly interesting about these is that they're actually an artifact. And what I mean by that is that we have a database where we generate not only the Simpsons register definitions, but we also use that same database to generate our documentation. And so to me, this is a major reason to not go and write our own custom peripheral register definitions anymore because we're generating them now. I think that's going to be a lot less error prone. It's using a lot more cases. And so we very much want to leverage that artifact. So in addition, so we also have bare metal peripheral drivers. And so these drivers are interesting because they provide common or at least similar APIs across the different families. And what I mean by this is that we have multiple variants of the same type of IP. And so for example, I'm not sure if any of you guys are familiar with these little details, but I've got three different types of UARTs listed here, a UART, an LP UART, and LPSCI. I've got three different types of SPI modules listed here as SPI, a DSPI, and LP SPI. So these all provide SPI and UART capabilities, but they have different register models, which means that we have different drivers for them. And so what the MCU Express OSDK does is provides a common or very similar type of driver model at that sort of bare metal level. And what that means for Zephyr is that, we start building a shim on top of that, that shim looks pretty similar. And so if you've seen a shim for a DSPI, doing another one for an LP SPI should be pretty straightforward. And then lastly, this isn't something that we incorporate into Zephyr, but I wanted to note it here, and that's IDE example projects. And what these serve, or the purpose of these projects are to demonstrate how to use these peripheral APIs. And so if it turns out that you're stuck, you don't understand how to use it, you've got a buildable project using a couple of different tool chains out there that you can go and build it, you can run it, and so you have a working example of how that driver works. And so the idea being that would be a lot simpler if you need to go and implement, or you need to use that driver in your own application, you have something that you can leverage and reference. So a note about the X folder. All of the externally maintained source code in Zephyr lives in a folder at the top level called Xt. And so as I've been talking today about, you know, SOC vendor house, there are additional code components that we've imported into Zephyr that also live in the X folder. So these comprise of embed TLS, TinyCrypt, FatFS, Sega RTT, and there may be a couple of others that I might have missed. In general, these components are permissively licensed in a way that we consider compatible with Apache 2.0, but not always the same. And so I think the most common case that we see here is a BSD3 clause. But there are, I think, one or two others. I think some are actually Apache 2 as well. But anything we put in Xt, we consider sort of a, we import it as it is, we don't modify it, or we try to modify it as little as possible. So we, you know, this is a downstream project, it's not a forked repo. And finally, anything we put in Xt, we have exempted from the Zephyr coding style. It just doesn't make sense to go and apply a coding style that we've adopted for sort of the co- or Zephyr kernel kind of components or anything that's been coded specifically for Zephyr and apply that same coding standard across all of these other things that we wanted to reuse. We do have a formal process now to import new code components into Zephyr. This is a process that was recently approved by the Governing Board and put into practice in the last month or so. And basically what that process consists of is documenting what that code is that you wanna import, where did you get it from, and then having it go through first the TSC or the Technical Steering Committee. And if the TSC agrees that this is something that we do want to use within the project, then they will send that to the Governing Board. And then the Governing Board has two weeks to look it over and discuss any potential patent issues or things like that that they might have concerns with about importing that into the project. And so once either the Governing Board approves it or two weeks have passed, then we have to go ahead to import that code into the project. So when you want to import a new component into the project, there are a number of things that you need to document. So obviously the origin, where did you get that project or where did you get that code originally from? Why do you wanna import it into the project? How are we using it? What do we wanna do with it? And what kind of dependencies it has? I think this is pretty self-explanatory. So I wanted to kind of address a couple of questions that we commonly see when somebody is interested in adding a new SOC into Zephyr. And so I think the first question that you might wanna ask yourself or you might ask somebody else in the community is does this SOC belong to another family or series? What's really common in these sort of small microcontroller devices is that you'll see huge number of devices in the same family. And so oftentimes, you're not starting from scratch. And so take a look at what's already there in terms of Zephyr and is there something that we could extend or leverage or follow suit to what's already there? The next question that they often get is are there census headers available? So if you're trying to import a new SOC into the project for a new family that doesn't already exist. So we've already established what to do for things like Kinetis or the Nordic devices or the AppMail devices. But if you've got something totally new, a new family, I think the first question that you'll get asked is are there census headers available? And if they are, is the license compatible? And then second, are there driver level or are there transactional or stateless drivers available? Is there something that we can leverage rather than starting from scratch? Of course, is the license compatible? That question applies here as well. Oftentimes those are distributed in the same deployments. That's the case for most of what we already have in the project. But if they happen to be separate, you need to ask that question separately. Are the APIs compatible? So I covered the kind of three different levels of abstraction that you'll see. And ideally, can we reuse a transactional driver if we can great, right? That's less new stuff that we need to do and more that we can leverage. But that's not always possible. It doesn't always make sense. And so maybe you bump down to the stateless level driver model. And then lastly, I touched on this a second ago, but can they be used for other SOCs in the same family? So I think this one can be a little bit tricky in that sometimes what you'll see when somebody writes a new driver, they'll say that that driver is this particular SOC's UART driver. But in reality, that same UART module exists on multiple SOCs in the same family from that vendor. And so we wanna be able to reuse that driver if we can. And so when you're importing or when you're adding support for a new SOC into the project, you need to think about, maybe you're not adding other SOCs in that same family yet, but maybe the next person might wanna come along and do it. And so can you do it in such a way that they can leverage that work that you're doing today? So in summary, I think that we find that a lot of reuse and reduction in custom code is a major benefit to using these howls when it's appropriate. There are different levels of abstraction. We have had a lot of success with using these SOC howls in Zephyr today. And if you are interested in adding one yourself, take a look at the input process, take a look at the get history and talk with the maintainers if you have questions. And that's it. Questions? No, this is something that's within NXP that we do. Yeah, these are just NXP SOCs, yeah. No, no, the shim lives in the standard driver folder. We consider that as new code to Zephyr. And so it lives with the rest of the sort of native code. Do you wanna think how to answer that question? I mean, so your application generally wouldn't be calling directly into the SDKs. So that should theoretically be seamless in practice. I don't think we've seen that problem yet. I can think of one case where something, the API in the MCUXpresso SDK actually changed in the Ethernet driver. It was a pretty minor change. And so I just made that change at the same time when I updated the SDK. But at the user level within Zephyr, right, your Zephyr application never directly calls that API. And so from its perspective, it was seamless. It didn't see the difference. But we don't maintain like multiple versions of the same SDK at one time. Anybody else? I have generally updated it when I'm importing a new SOC. So we don't do a lot of real frequent releases of the MCUXpresso SDK. It's generally at an SOC level. We don't provide it at NXP. We don't deploy an entire SDK for all of the SOCs in our portfolio. We look at it as an SOC by SOC basis. And so what'll happen is for the K64, for example, and a couple of cases, I've updated the SDK for that. And then what generally happens is we added a new SOC. There were new drivers or new versions of existing drivers that then I went and updated. Have vendor shown any interest in contributing to this house living in this X directory or submitting updates, I don't know, adjusting these halls to Zephyr somehow? Adjusting the house? Yeah, just a question. Have they shown any interest in contributing to Zephyr? Well, I represent a vendor, so. Other than NXP. Yeah, I mean, we have seen some of the vendors. You know, it's not just NXP that's doing that, but you had a question from Nordic there. There's somebody from ST that's also been contributing, and so there has been some representation from the vendors on that front. When it's crap? It's awful. Can you get the question, please? The question was, what do you do when the vendor driver's crap? I hope that's not my driver's. That's a good question. I mean, I guess, I don't know. I mean, I guess, you know, I'd be interested in seeing the vendor would be interested in fixing the driver. I think that'd be the first path I'd want to take. That's not always easy to do, but I'd rather at least try that first before reinventing something. Okay, thank you all for, was there another? No, that's not a hand. All right, thank you for coming. Thank you.


It's a great pleasure to welcome you all to the National Security College here at the Australian National University on this almost fine February morning in Canberra. I'm Rory Medcalf, the head of the National Security College and it's a great pleasure in a moment to introduce the Vice Chancellor who will internally introduce our special guest today, the Minister for Home Affairs and Cyber Security, the Honourable Claire O'Neill. Before we begin, I'll acknowledge the traditional custodians of the land where we're meeting today, the Ngunnawal people and pay respects to elders past, present and emerging. A few framing thoughts about the event this morning. We'll shortly hear an important speech by the Minister and then there'll be opportunity for a brief conversation with the Minister. I'll ask a few questions to draw out some themes of the speech. There'll also be a vote of thanks by the director of the Crawford School, Professor Janine O'Flynn. I would remind you please have your phones on silent. This is a public event so by all means tweet or use social media or whatever suits you but please phones on silent. There will be a recording of this event made online afterwards and of course the full text of the speech will be available. With that and before proceeding further also acknowledging the wonderful turnout we've had from senior leadership not only of the university but the Australian national security community and the broader security and diplomatic community in Canberra including the Secretary of Home Affairs, the Director-General of ASIO, the Australian Electrical Commissioner, Coordinator-General of the National Emergency Management Agency and I believe we may have the Assistant Minister for Foreign Affairs here as well. Welcome. Canadian High Commissioner and representatives from the UK and other diplomatic missions. Thank you again for being here this morning. With that I'll introduce the Vice Chancellor of ANU, Professor Brian Schmidt. Thank you Rory. Thank you ladies and gentlemen. I too would like to acknowledge and celebrate the first Australians on whose traditional lands and Rory thank you for your acknowledgement. A thousand generations have been meeting here on the lands we are today and I pay my respects to elders past and present. So it is a privilege this morning to welcome the Honourable Claire O'Neill, MP Minister for Home Affairs and Cyber Security and all of the distinguished guests, the ones that Rory mentioned and anyone we happen to forget. There's so many people in the audience it's a little hard to keep track. It is nice to see such a strong turnout early in the year, early in the hour and reminds us the significance about what the Minister is going to be talking about today and what we hope is a central place that the University can have in convening interesting conversations for the nation, the region and the world. We see ourselves as a trusted partner to have hard conversations the nation needs to have. Since 1946 and our region, the ANU has done its best to try to fit in the ecosystem here in Canberra to do things that are just not done by the other institutions of the nation and it means drawing on academic excellence and trying to help the country understand its own interest from a very diverse and rigorous point of view and help the nation there pursue it and so it is great to have the Minister being prepared to engage with us. As a National University we have the National Security College which is just 13 years old but feels like a long-term institution and that has been through the support of Commonwealth agencies and several governments. It is a very specific manifestation of the commitment, a special partnership between the University and the Commonwealth and the commitment of the University and the Commonwealth working together. Under the leadership of Professor Rory Metcalf the college has renewed and deepened its commitment to the mandate of providing capability uplift to the nation through education, research, practical engagement and policy and tomorrow the college will take its mission further and commence an innovative program courses and briefings for parliamentarians of all sides. The college's work rages from professional development programs to futures analysis and enriching the public debate and at the bedrock of its academic contribution is the Masters of National Security Policy degree delivered through our renowned Crawford School of Public Policy of which you are in right now and so I am pleased to see our brand new incoming director Janina Flynn here who you will see and it's great to have you back. She being part of this venerable institution for many years before of sconding off to Melbourne but it's always people always come back to Crawford. More than 10,000 Australian government officials have completed short courses at the college and many amongst its hundreds of academic alumni are serving across departments and agencies. These are the next generation of leadership and we want to make sure they have every piece of expertise they can. The Department of Home Affairs is a key stakeholder and there is great interest in the university and right across the academic sector in understanding how the priorities of home affairs are evolving under the Albanese government. They do affect us as they affect everyone but we are definitely more in the firing line than people may think of these. Safeguarding sovereignty is a core obligation of government. We look forward to hearing the minister's remarks today on that issue including the vital subject of countering foreign interference. As the foreign influence on interference issues continue to evolve it is worth noting the serious efforts and measures are in place here at ANU to identify and mitigate the associate risk. We're trying to be really on the front foot here and lead the conversation about how we might do this effectively. Our approach to countering foreign interference is consistent with the country agnostic per approach of the Australian government and developed in ways that reinforce academic freedom and trusted international linkage at their core. The minister's own background reflects a special appreciation both of education and of our nation's international connectedness. Her career is consistently combined academic achievement with engagement with the community. Claire O'Neill studied law at Monash University being elected to the city of Greater Dandenong Council while she was still a student and then going on to become the mayor of the city of Greater Dandenong. Later she studied public policy at Harvard University and worked on the New York Stock Exchange. After consulting to key industries around Australia Claire was elected to federal parliament in 2013. She represents the electorate of Hawthorne in Melbourne's southeast one of the most diverse electorates in the nation. Without further ado please join me in welcoming Claire O'Neill. Lovely. Brian thank you for that very warm introduction and I want to just join with you in acknowledging that we're on Nullarwall and Nambry land here today. I always feel very special actually giving speeches in the land around Canberra because as Brian pointed out this land has been the place for critical discussion about our nation's future for thousands and thousands of years and I do feel that deeply when I talk about critical issues that face our country in this area of Australia. I want to acknowledge my very friend my good friend and collaborator Tim Watts who's down the front here. We get to work together we've been working together for almost a decade now we've written a book together and we now work very closely together on the issues that I wanted to speak with you about this morning. I want to acknowledge along with Brian Janine and Rory for welcoming us to the National Security College. You mentioned Brian that it's sort of hard to imagine the National Security College not existing and I actually really agree with you. How did it come to pass that we did not have this institution that's become such a critical location for conversation about these issues there really isn't anything else like it in Australia and I'm very grateful that it exists. I want to acknowledge two very important people here who work with me on the issues under discussion today the first of those is the secretary of my department Mike Pazullo media star and I want to acknowledge DG Burgess who's down the front here who leads AZO with such brilliance and diplomacy so thank you Mike for being here and I want to thank all of you and in particular the young people who are here if you're studying national security I want to start by thanking you it is an act of patriotism merely to undertake the studies that you're interested in looking around this room I can see lots of people here who I assume will be going into home affairs to de facto defence and I'm very hopeful that we'll be working together in the years to come. When the Albanese government was elected last year we assumed a new poster for the national security conversation in Australia one that is assured and not anxious we opened a new chapter in the challenge to keep Australia State safe our government strongly values integrity openness and transparency now in the national security sphere some of these concepts are hard to put into practice but in some of these areas also knowledge dispels fear knowledge can make us stronger and knowledge can keep us safe that's why I want to talk to you today I want to open up a national conversation on an issue that AZO has stated is one of the biggest domestic security challenges we face now as you know a lot of the security conversation we've had as a nation over the past 20 years has been dominated by the discussion about terrorism and that is always going to remain a focus of the Australian government because threats to life are our priority but it is no secret that we face enormously significant challenges when we look beyond our borders the most significant since the Second World War how we manage those challenges will define the Australia that my children live in as adults our ability to manage and shape those challenges will depend on how free and fair our democracy is and how encouraged and enthusiastic our public are about engaging with it the stronger our democracy the more choices we have about how we engage with the world today I want to speak in a bit of detail about one of the main threats that faces our democracy and that is foreign interference espionage is something that most people in this room would be very familiar with this is the use of spies and spying to obtain government secrets foreign interference is something quite different its activities carried out or directed by a foreign state that are coercive corrupting deceptive or clandestine I consume a lot of intelligence today in my role as Minister for Home Affairs and of course my understanding of this problem has grown enormously over the eight months that I've been in this role but for some people in the community the threat of foreign interference is ever present it is relentless it is insidious and it not only affects individuals in our community it fundamentally undermines our democratic processes and today I want to talk about one thing that I think we as a nation can do together to tackle this problem my view coming into this role is that the discussion about about foreign interference hasn't sufficiently penetrated beyond the parliamentary triangle yet our best defence to arm people who are possible targets of this information is to assist them with all of the context and information they need to recognise foreign interference and to report it I want to have a conversation about this which is open which is informed and which is non-partisan and this is very very important because partisanship in this conversation is a huge problem if we give any minor hint to the Australian community that we are trying to politicise this problem that we are trying to use this problem to win votes with certain sections of the community the trust falls out of the discussion and we lose that ability to speak with people openly and frankly about the problems at hand so we've got to change the nature and the tone of this discussion and this is the one that I'm trying to lead as minister we want to have a goal my goal is a public discussion about this problem which is open apolitical and commensurate with the size of the challenge that we face and that challenge is enormous so it's time to bring foreign interference out of the shadows and into the light foreign governments try to influence what happens in other countries all the time in perfectly legitimate ways Australia does it that's why we have embassies that's why we've got many friends from the diplomatic corps in this room right now that's why we work through international forums like the United Nations but what makes foreign interference so problematic and illegal is covertness and deception that is the attempts by foreign governments to secretly influence our cherished democracy and coerce people living in Australia to behave in ways that undermine that democracy for the benefit of a foreign power so when and how do we see this problem presenting in Australia we see it in the covert influence foreign governments attempt to exert over diaspora communities and to be clear this is almost always unsuccessful because of the deep loyalty that almost all migrants and their communities showed to this beautiful country of ours we see it when diaspora communities peacefully protest about the actions of their government from their home country in some instances in many instances they will be photographed they will be harassed they will be followed as a result we see it when members of those communities speak out publicly against violence or intimidation in their home country we see it when people in those communities or their families back home are threatened harassed or intimidated because of actions that they have undertaken here in our free and fair democracy to be absolutely clear this kind of foreign interference is commonplace it is happening around our country every day we see it too on social media where foreign governments covertly try to sow division around political issues that are felt deeply within the Australian community they are trying to deliberately deteriorate our social fabric and cause conflict and painful rifts between neighbours who have lived together peacefully for many years we see it too in our universities as your vice chancellor here said where foreign governments attempt to covertly influence how topics are discussed and covered in our fiercely independent university lecture theatres and of course we see it in politics where foreign governments try to win over elected leaders or party activists to push for changes in everything from planning laws to foreign and national security policy or even just to simply build a picture of how decisions are made foreign interference is not hypothetical it is not merely something that lies in our future it is happening today and we need to do more to tackle it today as Minister for Home Affairs there is something direct and practical I can do to help equip Australians to fight this problem and that is to talk as openly as I can about what foreign interference looks like in Australia and as a government we will call out egregious acts of individual countries when it isn't in the national interest to do so today I want to share a bit more detail about foreign interference from one country in particular and that is Iran I want to stress that foreign interference doesn't just come from one country and if I can look back and provide a small critique of the discussion that I heard in previous years it was that sense that this is just about one country it's not we see it from many countries around the world and Iran is one of them since September last year Iran's theocratic regime has been jolted by nationwide protests in response to the tragic death in police custody of 22 year old Mahasa Amini Kurdish named Gina Tehran's brutal response to those protests has seen more than 400 people killed including at least 50 children it has failed to quell this uprising but it has triggered further protests against this regime around the world and of course we've seen that here in Australia now I noted before it is perfectly legal for anyone in Australia to criticise a foreign regime and tens of thousands of Australians have done something brave and come out and done that here in our country what we will absolutely not tolerate under any circumstances are attempts by foreign regimes to disrupt peaceful protests or try to push violence in those protests or try to suppress specific views being expressed nor will we tolerate hostile acts in the form of surveillance harassment or intimidation against individuals or family members here in Australia the Australian government and our security agencies watch these matters carefully and they do act to protect Australians and their democratic rights last year asio disrupted the activities of individuals who had conducted surveillance in the home of an Iranian Australian as well as conducted extensive research of this individual and their family I just want to step back and and and and say this again we have here someone living in our country who is being followed watched photographed their home invaded by people at the direction of a foreign power this is happening in Australia and it's something that asio was on to like a shot so I want people to understand to those states who operate in the shadows we have a very simple message we are watching you where our national interest is served by calling out your involvement in these operations we will absolutely do it and to those Australians who are making their voice heard we are acting to try to protect you now the example I've just mentioned there is not the only story of asio detecting foreign interference in Australia of course there are examples everywhere there are examples of foreign governments tasking human sources to collect sensitive personal information of individual cedars dissonance by the foreign government due to their activism here in Australia this is commonplace there are examples of individuals attending peaceful protests here in Australia who again are monitored their photograph is taken their followed home and protesters take the foreign governments take that information back home and sometimes that information is used to harass family members who live in that foreign country there are examples of individuals arranging counter protests to instigate arguments with activists at peaceful protests with the intent of provoking violence all this being done at the behest and at the request of a foreign government there are many examples of harassment of academics and staff who work at various media outlets and think tanks and as I said earlier these kind of activities will not be tolerated foreign interference will be detected and it will be disrupted but I think as a nation we can still do a lot more because one of the main points that I want to get across to you today is that this problem doesn't just sit with our security agencies that's why I've been so encouraging of director general Burgess's attempts to bring asio out of the shadow in educating our community as to how people in Australia can protect themselves against foreign interference and that's something that DG Burgess has taken very seriously well before I came into this role we're working together to do a lot more of this engagement that's one reason why I've asked the counter foreign interference coordinator within the home affairs department to develop an attribution framework for the Australian government we don't want to just disrupt these operations but we want to deter future ones by imposing costs on their sponsors by outing them where it is possible to do so I would like us to see Australia do this more and more because we have to stop this happening in the shadows we have to bring it into the light what we need in Australia is a community of people who are alert to what foreign interference looks like so we can be on guard and help to detect and resist future interference when it happens my main experience of dealing with this problem since I became Minister for Home Affairs is that most people who would be targets of foreign interference whether we think about politicians or academics or community leaders they desperately want to understand this threat so they can protect themselves there is an enormous thirst for knowledge amongst this community of people who might be targets of this because they do want to do what they can to protect themselves now for a lot of people in this room you would have spent most of your life now working in national security if you were approached by a foreign government or you became the target of foreign interference you would probably have your heart skip a beat or two it's a very stressful experience now imagine what it feels like being a community leader running a community group where you suddenly come under the pressure of a foreign government it's really scary and we need to reach out and help people who are targets of this type of interference so one of the most vital and important pillars of the new government's engagement on these issues is really thinking about how we can reach out to those people and try to help them understand this problem and there's some really good work that was already happening in this regard when we came into office in each state and territory there is a dedicated home affairs counter foreign interference engagement officer who works hand in hand with a network of people who we believe might be targeted engagements of foreign interference but i'm asking asio and home affairs to do more and one of the ways that we will do that is this year these two agencies are working together to develop for the first time a very significant program of community outreach which will identify individuals within the Australian community who might be targets of foreign interference and design and execute on a program to reach out to those people to help them understand what foreign interference looks like and to make sure that they understand what they can do to respond and how the Australian government will help protect them so this is the kind of open engagement that i want to maintain as minister for home affairs we need to build trust with communities of people who might be targets of foreign interference because i think anyone who is watching the geopolitical context will understand that this problem is going to grow not diminish one of the best examples of the power of this type of collaborative approach to foreign interference is the work that he's been done with our universities here in Australia since my time in this role i've been genuinely struck by the commitment and enthusiasm for Australian universities who i think honestly were a little bit suspicious about this problem to begin with to try to tackle it our university our universities understand at a deep level the essential role that they play in our democracy educating almost now half of all school leavers our universities are providing Australians with knowledge and critical thinking skills that are going to be core national assets for us running a strong democracy and facing into the challenges that we face the work that the Australian government has done with our university sector is actually of global interest and whenever i sit down with ministers of home affairs or my equivalents in other countries around the world this is one of the subjects where they are most interested in the work of the Australian government and that's why i'm so pleased to be having this conversation with you today here at the Australian national university despite the enormity of the challenges you're probably aware that we have the university foreign interference task force as the kind of centrepiece for the work that we do with the universities and the value of this work was acknowledged in the parliamentary joint committee on intelligence and securities inquiry international security risks affecting the Australian higher education and research sector which the government will table its response to very shortly the university of sydney said that due to Australian government intelligence advice they were aware the security threats Australia faces were real and increasingly sophisticated and during the senate inquiry universities repeatedly pointed out their commitment to countering foreign interference and the dramatic increase in their level of awareness since regular engagement with government agencies like asio in the first discussion that i had with universities around foreign interference really the first thing that they said to me was firstly we do not want foreign interference on our campuses ironclad commitment to that and secondly we need more information we need to know what the red flags are we need to know what to look for so we were able to deal with that very quickly by getting asio to come and brief the university vice-chancellors about this matter the point i want to make today is it's not just the universities this is a wide broad problem that our country faces and we are only going to solve it if we have a trusting open accountable conversation with the Australian public about what this problem is where it's going and how the Australian government can help them to solve it so i think that's all for today but rory i'm very thrilled to be sitting down with you very shortly and let's get into a few questions thanks everyone and i think for the record we'll be recording a podcast later this week where we'll go into these issues in some more detail that was a good plug there rory but i naturally the national security podcast please please subscribe so we're just three very brief questions now i think that's a that's a hard hitting speech and i think it tells those who work in national security things that we probably have been thinking about but for the broader community i think there's quite some eye-opening specifics there can i ask you really why now you know is there some significant policy shift in the in the works is it a particular response to recent events what's the what's the timing or what's the logic of sharing this message with us today thanks rory so as i mentioned in my speech i've been home affairs minister now for eight months i as you can imagine consume enormous amounts of intelligence in the work that i do and i think one of the things i've really been struck by is the disconnect between what i'm reading in intelligence and the public conversation about these matters and that really worries me because i see that gap as a national security risk foreign intelligence is not something that we are going to fight and defeat and tackle by me and and mike basala on mike burges you know sitting in rooms talking about it the best protection that we have here is a public that understands this problem is real i talked a bit in my speech about trust rory and i just really want to underscore that point i have a very multicultural community in my electorate and i have a community where i've got lots of activists who are very active in protest movements against the country that they came from a lot of big refugee populations those people need to trust me they need to trust the australian government and if there is any hint of politics in all of this the trust disappears and then when we really need to engage those communities they're not going to believe that the government's there with their best interest at heart and that's a real problem for us so i really want to try to reset this conversation around openness sharing the information we have and around apoliticalness in the national interest and that's the conversation that i think is going to make the country safe for the future you just asked me why now um you know frankly probably we could have been doing this a few years ago um that wasn't the choice of the previous australian government and i don't say that too too much to politicize it just to make the point that this is an urgent national problem it is growing it is not getting smaller and anyone following the geopolitical outlook can see as clear as a bell that there is a significant problem that is going to get worse as the years pass we've got to plant that seed with australians that there is foreign interference in our country it is insidious and it is relentless and it is everywhere and the only way we're going to protect ourselves is an australian community who understand what is going on and know what to do when they see it thank you and you've referred to the geopolitics so i'll go to that now uh because again it's not just why now it's it's it's also the question of why iran i mean there's some particular cases you've identified of a very disturbing activity and i think you know many of us have looked with horror at what's been unfolding uh in iran the courage of people in terms of resistance but of course there is a if you like a constellation of of foreign interference actors out there and of course so much of the debate in recent years has been about china yeah so it'd be interesting just to hear more thoughts on on on why the focus on iran and your speech and where does china russia authoritarian powers sit in that hierarchy of threat how pervasive is the foreign interference threat from those players so it is pervasive and it is coming from many different directions and the reason i'm talking about iran today is because this is an area where i think there hasn't been a lot of public discussion there's plenty of conversation about iran and what iran is doing geopolitically but i think it will be news to a lot of australians that this is having very significant impacts on the life of diaspora communities in particular right now what i would really like to do is try to broaden the conversation to reflect the accurate picture and that is that we are the subject of foreign interference from very many countries this is not just a china problem although it is a china problem and it's really important for me to be open and honest about the different directions from which this comes today i've chosen to talk about iran it's really important that we put that matter on the public record but this will be the first in a series of interventions worry where i'm able to speak about some specific examples of foreign interference we see from specific countries and iran's first cab off the rank so i know time's short and we will have a longer conversation another day but i just want to go to that question of expectations on the community which i think you you put really quite front and center now it wasn't so much expectations on the community it was really a sense of government's obligation in a democracy in a multicultural democracy to communities but as you say communities are not only if you like the first line of of what is attacked they're also a first line of defence so how would you frame the reasonable pardon me the reasonable expectations that government should place on diaspora communities in in in their own role in combating the threat of foreign interference thanks rory i think the language we use is is really important and when it's framed as obligations and expectations i i don't think that's the most constructive way for us to talk about this remember that these diaspora communities are the victims of foreign interference and it is our job as australians and as australian government agencies to wrap ourselves around these people and protect them they're the ones that are subject to the hurt and the harm that comes from this so in terms of obligations of course we want people to report nefarious conduct when it comes into their orbit and they can do that through the national security hotline but the main message to diaspora communities and multicultural communities today is that australia's democracy is our most valuable national asset and our multiculturalism is a core part of that we are going to be a successful brilliant country for many centuries to come because of those diaspora communities now our job as australians and as national security experts is to help protect them to help them understand our democratic values extend to them too and so this is really what this is about trying to work with those communities in a trusting collaborative way to show them that we're on their side do you have time for one more job universities so you've and I think we're here at australian national university we've had some observations from the vice chancellor today we've had I think you're very clear message about where universities sit in both the the risk and the response to the risk of foreign interference any further thoughts on how you see universities if you if you like essentially balancing the you know the international openness that is so much at the core of of the you know the university tradition and what makes universities in a country like australia such a national asset how to balance that we've been part of the the national policy response to foreign interference how if you're a vice chancellor how do you how do you square that circle I'll leave that to the Nobel Prize winners in the room I think so yeah really difficult question and this is a little bit of a cultural shift that has to take place it's not the only cultural shift that has to take place I mentioned before about the work that dj Burgess has done at asio one of the issues for us as an intelligence community here is thinking about openness and transparency when these organizations are by their very nature closed and secret so this is a challenge that dj Burgess is has worked on really well with asio but I just point out universities are not the only organizations here having to shift a little bit how they think about these big problems for the universities of course I think the most important thing is the it's the management of risk and I would say Brian you know I'd love to hear your thoughts about this but there probably was a time perhaps a decade ago where the belief was openness everyone's welcome all views are welcome and there was a real resistance to acknowledging that there might be objectives of foreign governments trying to influence what happens I do think that's really shifted and the universities I think are doing a good job of trying to think about partnerships in particular so this is a work in progress as I say this problem is going to get bigger not smaller over time and I think that structure that we have set up to deal with the universities is the centerpiece of something that will help us protect Australian universities and democracy for a long time to come thank you we'll leave it there we're just warming up but this will hopefully wet the appetite for the podcast I know your day your day minister is is very crowded I want to thank you for making time today but before we go I might invite my colleague the director of the Crawford School Professor Jeanine O'Flynn to give a vote thanks thank you Rory and minister thank you for your address today I'm sure others here will agree it was both substantial and very challenging you provided a frank and necessary message about the government's priority at a time when the international environment remains difficult and uncertain the vice chancellor and professor Metcalf have already noted in your speech your speech the context of the mission of the Australian National University and the National Security College I'd underscore their remarks and add that at the Crawford School of Public Policy as the academic home of the National Security College we are profoundly committed to robust discussion of all areas of public policy we go where the evidence takes us with openness and transparency and we're fully committed to tackling the complex challenges of our time in partnership with you and with the community open debate and open engagement with policymakers with academics and in our classrooms are absolutely pillars of our work which is why there's such interest here in government providing assurances that we can continue to engage in this way here at the ANU we're fully committed to doing so and we appreciate your support for our independence minister your government's agenda continues to develop and as it does I encourage and invite you and your colleagues to continue looking to the ANU particularly to the National Security College and to the Crawford School as partners in the contestability idea of ideas and also in thinking about the big issues that are shaping our nation we are really very delighted that you've chosen to launch this incredible critical national conversation here with us at the ANU today so please join me today in thanking the Minister for Home Affairs and Cyber Security the Honourable Claire O'Neill MP for sharing a significant speech today and given the time of the morning I want to also invite you to join us for some breakfast if you have to rush that's fine grab something to help sustain you for the day but thank you again to all of our distinguished guests and minister for you coming here today to join us to open this national conversation thank you very much


Hello everybody, Andrew Myesky here. So who would like a free tube of whitening toothpaste? So you have probably seen me post about it. I do talk about it with my with my patients all the time I actually sell it in my own office. It is an amazing whitening toothpaste that actually works and doesn't do any harm to the enamel, but it's kind of a nice taste too like it's so it's so light Minty vanilla taste and it does make the teeth feel so so clean They have probably never felt so clean. It's it's kind of like after you had your teeth polished like that's the clean Feeling that it does actually happen, but if you would like a free tube, so how this works is if you guys Send me a message send me an email Whatever and I will actually give you a template of a post to post on your timeline. So on On Instagram on Facebook and anybody who does order a tube of toothpaste You will get a free tube. So I do ask that as long as three people order Then that's it. I will send you a free tube of toothpaste right away. That is all you have to do There's no catch. It's just literally you helping me spread the word about this amazing Toothpaste because once people try it, they love it, but I totally understand that You all are probably saying oh my goodness like this this toothpaste does actually sound pretty awesome How can I try some so this way you can actually try a tube for free? so let me know if this is something you would like to do and I can get you guys started right away. So I will talk to you very very soon


Ladies and gentlemen, today is the day. The Fetch song by Darko is out. Now I can't remember if I felt like this for the past songs, but this one I'm extremely hyped about. I've been jamming out to the preview, which is only like, what, 15 seconds of the song? I can't wait for this song, honestly. So far I really love the animation. I love the model of Fetch.  And don't even get me started on the bop that this song is. It is just, ooh, you know, it hits different than the other songs, unironically. It hits a bit different, in a good way, of course. Now, the thing that makes this reaction different to the previous ones is that I actually have not read the story of Fetch. In fact, the only stories I've read of Fazbear Frights, even though I own all five of the books that are out right now, the only ones that I have read are the first three in the first book. So I don't know if I'm going to get all of the references in this song and future songs, but hopefully that will not take away from the reaction. I have no clue how long this song is, but I guess we are going to find out because it is about to go live, boys. This is Fetch by Darko. And hey, if you enjoy the reaction, why not subscribe? Honestly, it helps out the channel a lot. You would not understand.  So if you enjoy the reactions, subscribe. And if you want to feel a bit nostalgic or you just really like the songs, check out my past reactions to all the other songs by Darko, except Like It or Not. I don't think I did a reaction to that song, but I've done a reaction to every single other. So again, without further ado, Fetch, let's hop into it. I would like to say if the volume for the song itself is quiet, I know that was an issue last time. Oh, right.  I forgot about this. If the song itself is quiet like it was in Count the Ways, I'm very, very sorry. I can't actually adjust the volume in real time because I'm reacting to the song. I don't record my reaction separately and then put the song over my reaction. I do them both at the same time. So hopefully the song isn't quiet. Hopefully it's not too loud either. It's very difficult to get that middle ground, you know? Okay, I just turned my mic down a little bit, so hopefully I'm not too bass boosted. I just rewatched my clips and I was like, hey, I sound a bit loud. So hopefully, again, I'm very sorry if the audio is quiet for the song. I'm loud. Anyways, subscribe if you're new. Let's hop into Fetch in four, three, two, one. I'm very excited for this. Let's have a look. Like a cop on the noise of thunder, I can hear all my thoughts pulled under. This wasn't the preview. That's a good shot. There he is. How did you pick that up? I love that. Oh, that's awesome. Fetch is terrifying. Oh, this is great. This is awesome. Yes. So amazing. This is my favorite. No, the popo. Rest in peace. That's so sad. He's coming to FNAFAR soon. This is great. Is that T-Jock? A T-Zoo who, no, wait, no, we're not. Okay, cool. All right, legit. That is my new favorite song by Darko. The animation too. Oh my God, not even counting the song itself. The animation, all the shots, it was incredible. By far my favorite. Not even just the song, the animation too. Both of them. Absolutely incredible. This was incredible. So let's see here. The next song that they are doing will be Lonely Freddy. Oh boy. I believe they already have a model for that one. And I'm sure they're already working on it because that's just what they do. Darko is so good at just pumping these songs out. It's incredible how he does it. And of course, all the animators, all the other people that worked on the song, like the thumbnail, all that stuff, they're all linked down in the description. Go check them out because they do incredible work. This was unbelievable. Legit, this is my new favorite animation and song. 100% gobbin' this on my phone right for it now. So thanks so much for watching and I'll see you all on the flip side. Goodbye. Gregory, be still. I think she's found us.


It's true. Thank you. Product management might be the most difficult job in any organization. It's filled with ill-defined and often unexpected responsibilities that are foisted on your shoulders every day. So a lot of your success is correlated with your approach to relationships. So I'm going to talk a little bit today about the relationship between product management and design. First, a bit about me. I've been helping to build design teams for the past 20 years for global ad agencies, consumer products, and enterprise SaaS businesses. Today, I'm VP of Design and Acting Head of Product Organization at Medium, where our mission is in part to enable the sharing of wisdom that can only be gained from lived experiences. On most weekends, I try to make it out to one of the 92 branches of the New York Public Library. Yes. It's still one of this nation's most undervalued resources. I don't know how far people have traveled today to get here, or if you're tuning in online, but I highly recommend visiting NYPL online or off. So back to the relationship between product managers and designers. This is not a new topic. There's troves of wisdom that you'll find on platforms like Medium, a bunch of fully formed thoughts, conclusions, great advice from industry leaders, and a lot of respectful voices that are talking about successes that they've had in the past, and a lot of good wisdom, like I said, there. And then there's me. I'm the type of person that prefaces all of my documents with works in progress. I feel like it just sets the expectation for the mess that you're going to find below. So today, let's just assume that what we're going to be talking today about is thoughts in progress. Things that I'm thinking about as I think about successes and spectacular failures working with product managers. So here's my theory. Like all relationships, it always helps to understand yourself and understand your partner and what you're bringing to the relationship. But as it relates to design and product management, I think it's most important to think about this along two vectors. So one is how you tend to show up in your role on the spectrum introversion and introversion. And the next vector is your experience with research. So let's dive into introversion and extroversion. So I think even Carl Jung, who introduced these terms to us in the early 1900s, didn't think that people felt squarely into one category or the other. This is a spectrum. It's a continuum. It's how you end up showing up your behaviors, patterns that you end up exhibiting in your particular role. So that's what I'm going to be talking about. And let's talk about this in a quadrant analysis, shall we? Over here on the y-axis, you'll see yourself as a PM and how you tend to show up in your particular role on the spectrum of introversion and extroversion. And on the x-axis, how your design partner tends to show up in their particular role. So let's start with assuming that you and your design partner tend to behave more in introverted ways. And this is interesting because I talked a lot about these ill-defined and unexpected responsibilities that fall on your shoulders. A lot of that is based on the premise that you come to work every day exhibiting extroverted behaviors. And that might not be the case. So I think if you and your design partner tend to be more extroverted, one of the first things you should do is think about expanding that circle. This might start with engaging with your engineering partners. But I'm thinking even beyond that, start engaging some of your product marketing partners, people in success, people that might be in your sales organization to help with some of those tasks that fall squarely on the product manager for some reason. A lot of those things like leading group discussions or facilitating workshops, that sort of thing. So definitely expand that circle and spread out that responsibility.  I feel like half my colleagues think that's the only thing that I do. If you tend to think in writing, if you tend to be more reflective about your thinking, there's no reason why you and your design partner can't make best in class internal documentation. And this is going to have outsized value for your organization. So don't be ashamed of it. Take notes. OK, so let's move on to just assuming that maybe your design partner shows up with a little bit more extroverted behaviors. What might you do there? So we talked about responsibilities. I think that naturally lends themselves to being somebody that you can pass the mic to. It's nice to share the spotlight. I know the spotlight usually falls on product managers, but it's nice to share that spotlight occasionally and hear from voices outside of that particular role. So you have a built-in partner here that you can pass the mic to. And then another responsibility that I didn't talk about that product managers sometimes unfairly get saddled with is the idea of building teams, team building, having team bonding activities. And if this happens to be something that's in your design partner's wheelhouse, this could be a natural activity that they'd want to jump on and provide thoughts around. So that's what I would definitely encourage you to do if that happens to be the particular situation that you find yourself in. But let's say the roles are reversed. And you actually show up to your role exhibiting more extroverted behaviors than your design partner. There's a lot of responsibilities that end up falling on designers, too, that assume a lot about how they show up to their particular roles. Speaking up in groups, talking about things in certain settings that might not be entirely comfortable. So one recommendation would be to meet them where they're at. This might end up being commenting or finding sticky notes in Figma or your design platform of choice. Finding asynchronous platforms or your chat messaging systems like Slack to have asynchronous communications or find out where they're most engaged. Meet them where they're at. That will go a long way in helping to build that muscle within your partnership to make sure that everybody's communicating more broadly. And while you're doing that, you're going to start to learn a lot. You're going to learn a lot about the questions that are most important to designers and some things that might not come up in those group meetings that you're kind of expecting or you're wondering if they're thinking that at all. So you're going to start learning these questions. Questions like, is there more research that we could be doing to bolster our assumptions, to mitigate risk? Is what we're building, can it be componentized, added to a design system, and used elsewhere in the product? Are we adding to UX debt? Is there something that we could do to address that? These are the types of questions that you could start to lead. But then over time, it could start to be distributed across the team and questions that people ask no matter what their function is. And that's a benefit to the entire organization. All right, now let's move on to the case that both you and your designer, design partner, show up to the organization exhibiting more extroverted behaviors. What might you do there? Then all these responsibilities that I talked about, you have a built-in tag team partner. And this shows up in a lot of different ways, especially in company presentations. One way that this usually shows up is a product manager might set the business context for something or talk about a problem statement and the designer might walk through a solution or demo a prototype. But these roles aren't locked in either, right? You can spread this out across roles, across each other's roles, so that, again, spreading that spotlight benefits everyone in the organization. And then I would also recommend just getting out of the company, celebrating the success, talking about this outside of your organization. Not only is this great for your company, but this is great for your personal brand too. So get it up to product con. Talk about your relationship with your design partner and how wonderful it's been for your product development in general. Just get outside of the organization. So in general, when evaluating your relationship, considering the spectrum of introversion and extroversion can really help to build that trust between product managers and designers, but also ultimately it could lead to a stronger or more functioning team. So let's talk a little bit about research. When I talk about research, I have a fairly broad definition of research. I'm not just including things that most people think about when they think about like UX research, right? I'm thinking about things you probably take part in before you met your design partner. Things like understanding your competitive landscape, opportunity sizing, digging into your usage metrics, and then being roped into conversations with customers as most product managers end up being roped into. These are all research things as well. These are research activities. And I'm combining that with your traditional UX research. So things like study design, ethnographic studies, usability testing, and facilitating co-creation workshops. These are all research activities. So when I talk about coming to your particular role with research experience, that's what I'm talking about. So again, let's start with assuming that you have very little research experience. Maybe this is your first role as a product manager or you work in an organization that's super siloed and you've never been expected to do a lot of research on your own. Maybe this case might be the same for your design partner. So what might happen then? I'd say the first thing is that there's not a lot of learning that you're gonna have to do. So why not start a book club? So all these books that you're reading by Teresa Torres or Steve Krug, why don't you exchange notes with your design partner? Share insights that you're learning as you're reading and understanding the role of research and what part it can play in product development.  So the next thing I'd recommend is becoming joint points of contact for these tools and services in their sales or organization to really understand what the capabilities are in the tools, but then also the cost and the value that it could bring to the organization. This will be the foundation of your research practice at the organization. So this is something that would be exceptionally valuable for you and your design partner to engage in. Now let's assume that your design partner comes to their role with a lot more experience. This tends to happen a lot. And I'd say the first piece of advice is something that you should probably do no matter what the situation is, which is involve your design partner a lot earlier in the conversations that you're having in your own head or with others around product strategy. Assume that there is a research solution or to answer some of the questions that you're having as you're working things out. Have your design partner poke holes in your product strategy to make it stronger. This is all stuff that I would recommend anyways, but especially if your design partner is coming into their role with a lot of research experience. And then secondly, as they engage in these research activities, talking with customers, developing research plans, add yourself as a plus one. There's no better way to kind of get practice and learn more about this than seeing it actually in application. So add yourself to these types of activities that your design partner is doing. But let's say the roles are reversed. You're actually coming to the role with a lot more research experience than your design partner. What might happen then? So if you've done a lot of research, one of the things that you've probably realized is how difficult it is to do participant recruitment. And as a product manager, you have access to a lot of things, not only in the organization, but outside of the organization. So I'd say that's something that you can start to lead is participant recruitment for research activities. And then also involve your design partner in this, but you can lead it to start and then exercise that muscle to really demonstrate how this can be wielded. How do you screen potential research participants? What kind of cohorts are you looking at when you think about your audience or your customer base? So that's something that could definitely strengthen this partnership. And then again, all these research activities that you're already doing, whether it's opportunity sizing or understanding your competitive landscape, involve your design partner. Get them to build that exercise, exercise that muscle with research. It's really gonna help their practice, but then the partnership overall. Now let's say you're in a fortunate situation where you and the design partner that you work with are coming to your roles with a lot of research experience. This is an excellent position to be in. And if this happens to be the case, I can think of no better advocates within the organization to think about expanding that research practice. Maybe there isn't even a dedicated researcher right now at your organization. There's no two better advocates for this particular role and expansion than you and your research experience design partner. This also includes the procurement aspect, the tools and services, as I mentioned before, really advocating for that additional spend or investment to the organization. And then also with all the research experience that you both are doing are adding to your particular roles, there's gonna be a lot of outcomes that you have. It's really time to start thinking about a living repository of insights that can help not only your immediate team, but start to help the wider organization as a whole. So when you think about your partnership with designers, it really helps to think about how much research experience you're bringing into the table. Because that's really you and your design partner are the foundation for research practice, not only with your immediate team, but the entire organization. I had a mentor who told me they would never hire a product manager unless at some point during the interview process, they walked over to the whiteboard and started to make a list. So I'm gonna leave you all with a list. Relationships, as I mentioned, it's about listening. It's about understanding what your partner's coming to the table with. But as it relates to product managers and designers, I think the two most important vectors are where each of you shows up on the spectrum of introversion and extroversion and how much research experience you're bringing to your particular roles. Now, listening and understanding your partner, these aren't complicated ideas, but they are extremely hard to do. It's no wonder why most of our organizations are terrible at DEI initiatives. We draw such heavy lines around our particular functions or identities. So consider this activity or this exercise as your first step into building a more inclusive environment where you're working. And then as I mentioned, these are all thoughts in progress. I look forward to continuing this conversation. I'm at Chanovi and on most platforms. Really excited to continue that discussion. And finally, a big shout out to my insanely talented colleague, Helena Zhang and her partner, Tobias Freed, who invented phosphor icons upon which this entire presentation relies. A really big shout out to them. If you're going to be attending Figma's config conference next month, I highly recommend hearing Helena speak. She's going to have a great segment there. Thank you so much. I hope you enjoy the rest of ProductCon.


You talk a good fight.  Go ahead, try to wound me. How long can you last? Hello and welcome to One Piece 101, the series that breaks down every one and everything in the One Piece world. Today we will be examining the former bounty hunter turned right-hand man of Sir Crocodile, Dars Bones. Dars Bones is a muscular, tanned, and very quiet man whom we first encountered as an antagonist during the alabaster arc. At the time he was an officer agent of Baroque Works, the secret organization led by former warlord of the sea, Sir Crocodile. And as with all officer agents, Dars was assigned a codename, in this case being Mr. One. And once again, just with all agents, Dars bought this number on his person, in this case in the form of a tattoo on his chest. This low, low number signified that Dars was essentially the strongest and most trusted officer agent, which, you know, when you consider the rest of the Baroque Works candidates, yeah, look, I think Crocodile made a good choice. And that's not just taking strength into account, it's much more about personality. Dars Bones is a very level-headed, calm, and focused individual, which is an invaluable quality in a line of work that includes espionage and assassination. In fact, most of Mr. Bones' prior experience is in the latter field, as he was an infamous assassin and bounty hunter operating in West Blue prior to his joining of Baroque Works. He was actually so revered that his reputation spread beyond the red line and into the other seas of the world. And his effectiveness as an assassin is due in no small part to his devil fruit, the super super numine. This is a Paramecia-type fruit that allows its user to transform parts of their body into a metal blade, basically becoming the bane of every amateur swordsman in the world. It's a fairly simple fruit, though, and Dars Bones generally uses it as one would typically expect, to turn his limbs and other extremities, such as fingers, into blades. However, Dars Bones does have some creative uses of his fruit, one of which being when he creates a blade on the bottom of his feet, essentially crafting himself a pair of lovely ice skates that he can use to travel about at increased speeds. Although a much more terrifying example of Dars' limited creativity is an attack by the name of Spiral Hollow, whereby he creates spinning blades on his forearms that shred just about anything they touch, sort of like the drills used in excavation work. Not something you really want to be hit by, as Zoro will gladly attest to. In fact, Dars Bones' most well-known fight was against the Straw Hat Swordsman during Operation Utopia, a ploy to plunge the nation of Alabasta into war in order to secure the ancient weapon Pluton. However, despite being dominant for roughly 99.9% of the battle, Dars Bones was overcome by Zoro, who, in a convenient moment of epiphany, learned how to cut steel, and swiftly defeated our tanned assassin. And after the defeat of Sir Crocodile, Dars Bones and his fellow agents were arrested by the Marines and incarcerated. Eventually, a squad of former Baroque Works agents led by Miss Goldenweak infiltrated the prison with every intention to free both Crocodile and Dars Bones. However, they both declined their chance for freedom… for, um, the reasons, I guess. Shortly after, Dars Bones was transferred to the Underwater Prison Impel Down, along with Crocodile. Dars Bones was incarcerated on Level 4 of the institution, also known as the Blazing Hell, and he just chilled there for a while. After Crocodile was freed from Level 6 by Luffy, he offered to break Dars out, and Dars proceeded to join the Impel Down Jailbreak Squad, led by Luffy, Jinbei and Ivankov. And as a result, Dars Bones then found himself participating in the Paramount War, initially facing off against the Whitebeard Pirates. But he and Crocodile later switched allegiances to helping Luffy out in general. In doing so, Dars protected Luffy from a strike against the world's greatest swordsman, Drake Q. Mihawk. However, he was defeated instantaneously in the process, signaling the second time a swordsman had gotten the better of him in a single strike. A Crocodile intervened in the skirmish, saving both Dars and Luffy, although Dars would be rendered out of action for the remainder of the war. Three weeks after the Paramount War, Dars Bones would reappear on an unknown island in the Grand Line, looking rather schmick in a scruffy black suit. He and Crocodile were reading about Luffy in a newspaper, after which Crocodile abruptly proposed to Dars Bones, that they head into the New World. Dars accepted the offer without a second thought, and he is presumably still at large in the New World today. Some more fun facts about Dars Bones. When Ms. Goldenwick used her rainbow colour trap, it was revealed that at one stage, Dars Bones had dreamt of becoming a superhero, which could also be a play on his Devil Fruit's name, the Super Supernomi. Furthermore, the name of his Devil Fruit is the Japanese Onomatopoeia, for the sound a knife makes when cutting through something, not to be confused with Barabara, aka Buggy's Devil Fruit, which is the sound of a knife hitting a board. In the Funimation Double 1 piece, Smoker states that Dars Bones was killed by Zoro during Operation Utopia. Pretty awkward, because he then reappears during the Impel Down Arc, which, you know, I guess makes him the only character apart from Brooke to ever come back from the dead in the series, at least according to the Funimation canon. And finally, a truly useless fact, Dars Bones, the super serious and notorious assassin, has an attack named Sparkling Daisy. How cute. And that pretty much does it for Dars Bones. If you enjoyed this video then feel free to like, favourite or subscribe, and if you are in any way keen on supporting this independent channel, please do check out my Patreon, Discord server or Twitter, the links to which are in the handy description below. Finally, please do comment with who, what or where you'd like to see featured in the next One Piece 101.


Welcome, this is Melissa Armo with the stocks. What should I review and eat? This was the stocks will show play of the day in the live trading room today. And I did let everybody know that you could retake this today and actually any retake in this worked. This was the best bearish gap to watch out of the gate this morning. It was a beautiful, beautiful, beautiful move. I'm gonna, we got it. We got it, but I did tell everybody you could retake it. And this is falling, you're into the clothes, broke the loan, dropping, dropping, dropping. How did I do the dream target? So we did this extremely quickly. Actually this hit and it was like, I mean, it just hit so hard, not everybody got it. So I made the call here. And then I said, we gotta find a way into this. So then we did it here, put the stop here, got a massive move down, massive, massive, massive. And got out, perfect entry, perfect exit. Couldn't have done this any better. So I am on my game. Everyone is in love with me right now that is trading. The options letter added in the room because bottom line is everything that I'm calling is working. My intuition is heightened and I'm seeing everything clearly. So again, you could still be in this into the clothes, drop through break of 90 is gonna happen here any second. Look at that last couple of minutes of the day. But I did tell people they could retake it. So you really could have done this on the five minute. You could have done it on the 15 minute. It took a while to go. But again, backdrop of the market, very strong. The fact that this fell at all. I mean, it was a great read on this. So this was my top watch today. We did it immediately. We were done in five minutes. And then you could spend the rest of the day to do whatever you wanna do or watch the options trades if you're on the options letter. If you'd like to learn how I find picks and stocks like EXAS to know that this was gonna fall today, you can sign up for the golden gap course and learn my method. Email me and Melissa at thestockswish.com if you'd like more information. Have a great day everyone.