I will not criticise it, but they are putting in place the test as it exists. That ends question time. Next slide to business is a statement by Keith Brown in the future of Scotland's railways. The ministers will take questions at the end of his statement, and there should be therefore no interventions or interruptions. I will give a few seconds for people to get themselves settled. Minister, you have got 10 minutes. I am grateful to the Parliament for the opportunity to make a statement on the future of the ScotRail franchise. This morning, I advised Parliament that the procurement process for the ScotRail franchise had been completed on time and to plan. The Scottish Government believes that good public transport improves the lives of the people and the economy of Scotland. Following extensive consultation, Scotland's railway has attracted a world-leading contract to deliver for rail staff and passengers. The competition has been evaluated rigorously on the basis of the most advantageous balance of quality and price for passengers, staff and taxpayers, and the Scottish Government intends to award the contract to Abilio ScotRail Ltd. The new franchise contract confirms the Scottish Government's commitment to transform Scotland's rail service. The new Abilio Group UK headquarters will add 50 new jobs to the 150 Abilio ScotRail HQ jobs secured in Glasgow. The franchise will commence on 1 April 2015 and will deliver investment in the service for the next 10 years, investment for the benefit of passengers, staff and taxpayers. The improvements that the contract secures will be felt right across the network for the benefit of all of Scotland. Before I go into detail, I wish to remind members of the context of railway franchising. As members will recall from my statements earlier this year on the award of the Caledonian Sleeper franchise, franchising is a requirement under the Railways Act 1993 and precludes any UK public sector organisation from bidding to operate a railway service. As I have stated publicly on many occasions, it is an unfair restriction that ought to be changed so that private and public bidders can compete equally. I have written to three secretaries of state for transport requesting a change in law and each request was refused. The Labour Administration, over 13 years, despite ample opportunity, chose not to widen access to rail franchising to UK public sector organisations. The Transport Act 2000 and the Railways Act 2005 are silent on this issue. In fact, the Labour Administration supported franchising and its restrictions. In 2009, the then Secretary of State for Transport, Lord Adonis, reassured the Transport Committee that, the evidence so far is that the franchising system has continued to prove its worth. I am left to reduce both through its legislative silence and its vocal support for franchising that the Labour Administration was clearly happy to leave us operating these patently unfair procedures. This week we have started laying the tracks of the border railway, but the tracks of the franchising process was laid by the Tory and Labour Governments at Westminster. Earlier this week, I was asked to cancel the franchising process. Doing so may have left us liable for bid costs in excess of £30 million from our five bidders. Remember that it cost the DFT over £50 million for the west coast franchise failure. It was in fact Ed Miliband who said that it is a disgrace that it is going to cost £40 million plus and perhaps more for the taxpayer's money because they have bungled this franchise. Nobody in this chamber can guarantee what new powers we will get and on what date, but we do know that a delay in this process would be for a number of years. It would be costly and a bad deal for the travelling public. I am not willing to put at risk the expectations of our passengers or the interests of the taxpayer by playing fast and loose with rail franchising. Despite having to adhere to unfair franchising rules, we have always stated that we would do so competently. Accordingly, we have set out a prudent programme for our franchise procurements, with a process managed by an expert team in Transport Scotland. We delivered the Caledonian sleeper franchise on schedule, and today, applying the same competent prudent approach that has become the hallmark of this Government, we have delivered yet another successful outcome. Following a pre-qualification process, we have attracted five high-quality bids. Those bidders, each with international interests, demonstrate the global appeal of Scotland. Their participation demonstrates the confidence that they have in Scotland as a place to conduct business. As members will know, ministers play no part in the evaluation of bids or in the selection of the winning bidder. Those matters are governed by the process administered by Transport Scotland officials. However, I am advised that each of the bids was of high quality, and after a rigorous evaluation exercise, a bailiol came out on top. At this point, I thank Ariva, First Group, MTR and National Express for their participation and their confidence in the Scottish Government's vision for ScotRail. I also thank those many stakeholders that informed each of those bids. In particular, I go to First Group and its hard-working staff for their management of the service since 2004. Since that time, patternage has grown by a third. We have seen more than 200 additional daily train services. Performance has improved from 87 per cent to 92 per cent, and passenger satisfaction has risen to 90 per cent. Those taken together are commendable achievements. Our franchise specification puts passengers' interests at the heart of the ScotRail service. It has ambitious service standards and an emphasis on quality and effective operation. The new franchise will transform the passenger experience with improved provision of information, enhanced websites, a price promise to provide the best value ticket, as well as a Scotland-wide extension of smart and integrated ticketing, making travel simpler and smarter. In addition to its price promise, the new franchise will implement our commitment to bear down on fares to make rail a much more attractive travel choice. As of January next year, peak fares will be capped at RPI and off-peak fares cannot increase at a rate greater than RPI minus 1 per cent. Jobseekers and the newly employed will also benefit from reduced fare schemes. In short, fare are affordable fares for all. A mobile ticketing application will enable passengers to buy tickets to search for travel information, to book cycle hire and taxis from selected stations and to obtain details on less busy services. Enabling choice and making journeys easy is a key to getting our country on the move. Across the network, there will be more car parking spaces, more electric car charging bays and more cycle spaces. Even at selected stations, a bike and go cycle hire scheme will enable end-to-end journeys. Our station environments will be updated with more platform shelters, more refreshment kiosks and major enhancements at Aberdeen Perth, Stirling, Motherwell and Inverness. All that builds on the substantial investment already seen at Waverley and Haymarket and the improvements planned for Glasgow Queen Street and Dundee. We all recognise the need for greater transport integration to join up journeys. At selected stations, cross-modal information screens will display arrivals and departures of other modes such as bus, ferry or air. A key aspect will be forging links with other providers to unlock journey opportunities across Scotland. The franchise will also deliver improvements on our trains, increasing the attraction of rail travel. With high-speed trains, better journey times and more comfort, our seven cities will be linked by proper intercity rolling stock, more in keeping with the intercity experience, which we no passengers prefer. New electric trains will be delivered for Edinburgh to Glasgow and Stirling, Alloa and Dumblane services. Overall, there will be a 23 per cent increase in carriages across the network and that will ensure the full advantages taken of the Government's substantial investment in infrastructure. We also ask for proposals to capitalise on the tourism potential of our railways. The new franchise came forward with the Great Scenic Railway of Scotland, a proposition that covers the West Highland and Kylines, the Far North Line, those serving Stranraer and Dumfries and from September 2015 the Borders. This proposition enables our railway to market Scotland's scenery, its heritage and its tourist attractions to a wider audience. Trains on those routes will be refurbished and there will be dedicated tourism ambassadors trained to visit Scotland's standards to provide information on attractions, history and journey connections. I hope that community rail groups and local businesses engage with the franchise to grasp the very real opportunities arising from this marvellous, expansive initiative. I have also been very careful to ensure that the interests of ScotRail staff are addressed in the new franchise contract. Accordingly, we work with the rail unions to ensure that staffing issues are appropriately covered and I am grateful for the unions assistance in that respect. The transfer of undertakings protection of employment regulations 2006, of course, will apply and pensions will also be protected. We might be obliged by Westminster to franchise, but that does not mean that we should not get the best deal for staff anywhere, as I believe we have. The contract contains commitments on apprenticeships, 100 of those, training in staff development and, for the first time, trade union representation on the board of the company. It also sets out the franchise's extensive corporate social obligations to the community that it serves. The latter is important because a railway does more than just provide a journey opportunity. It also spreads and generates economic vitality and prosperity across communities. That is why, Presiding Officer, that contract is a good contract. It does more than simply provide rail services. It seeks to help to get Scotland on the move economically and on the move socially. We also have struck a deal with the franchise to ensure that no compulsory redundancies during the entire life of the contract. Over and above that, we have also struck a deal to make sure that every single person, whether directly employed or through subcontractors, will have at least the living wage as a salary. Presiding Officer, we are committed to delivering a safe, well-founded, properly resourced and an audit process that makes sure that the franchise process that we have gone through stands up to scrutiny. It has also been our intention to make sure that it is the best possible deal for fair payers and passengers. I believe that we have achieved that, even though we are obliged to go down through the franchise route. It does offer a better Scotland offering improved services to rail passengers, whether residents or visitors, security for our railway staff and enabling economic opportunities for all in our cities, towns and rural communities. Members who wish to ask a question off the minister should press request peak button now. I thank the minister for notice of his statement but regret that announcements continue to be made outside of this Parliament in advance. I also like to put on record our appreciation of the work done by staff in the past 10 years on the franchise. In awarding the ScotRail franchise to Abelio, the minister has decided that profits from Scotland's rail services should be used to invest in lower fares and better services in the Netherlands rather than here in Scotland. We now have a minister who claims to support a Scottish public sector railway continuing with a franchise tender process that excluded that very option. Why do you say one thing in your deputy leadership bid but do something else in your position as minister? Keith Brown should have welcomed calls by transport unions and Scottish Labour to suspend the franchise process so further devolution could allow public bids to operate Scotland's railways instead that he carried on regardless. The Deputy First Minister recently wrote to the UK Government to ask that the roll-out of universal credit be postponed to allow the talks and additional powers to be carried out in good faith. Why does the Government say one thing when they are making demands but the opposite when they are in a position to act? The minister shows that the Scottish Government's record is one of hollow words and broken promises. In public the Government talks about more powers but when they have the opportunity to act they abdicate responsibility. Why did the minister not show the leadership that people of Scotland expect and allow the possibility for a Scottish public sector rail operator to bid for the franchise? I believe that the statement that we have just heard shows why the Labour Party far from being taken as a serious potential government is not even taken as a serious potential opposition. First of all I struggle to understand exactly what the Labour Party's position is because we have George Fuchs saying that explicitly the situation is that we have the powers to nationalise the railways in Scotland which is patently false. We also have the situation where the Labour Party for 13 years had the ability to change us and refused to do so. We have also got the endorsement of the franchising process from prominent Labour politicians as well. Interestingly, maybe the ideas at something's changed. Well, as recently as a few months ago the Labour Party's own publication, Powers for a Purpose, says that the co-op party report that they referred to argues for a new approach which Labour supports which would in the longer term, i.e. after the end of the new franchise starting in 2015. The Labour Party is all over the place in terms of franchising and the reason why we are hearing such thunderous accusations is because they are embarrassed about the fact that we have ended up here. You ask why there is a Dutch railway company, a publicly owned Dutch railway company. That is a natural consequence. If you set out legislation that allows public bids from other countries but refused to allow it from Scotland or the UK, this is the Labour Party's legislation. The Labour Party has laid the tracks for how we have to do the franchising. I very much hope that that changes. We will continue to argue for the change. Mark Griffin says that I have said one thing and done another. I have three things written to Secretary of State for Scotland arguing for that change. I would like to have had Labour's support in doing that. We have not had that support. If you want to change it, you have the chance. I don't dispute where the trade unions come from in relation to this because they have always held that position. They have never had the potential to change it. The Labour Party has, and they refuse to change it. You should take responsibility for the outcome of these consequences, but we have run a proper process in this regard and we have a good deal for the people of Scotland. I thank the minister for his statement and for advance sight of it. As a north-east MSP, I am naturally sad to hear that the Aberdeen-based first group have lost out in their bid to retain the ScotRail franchise. It is no coincidence that their tenure has seen a dramatic reversal in the decline of rail passenger numbers in Scotland. Their investment and sound management has delivered significant improvements in comfort, punctuality and substantial increase in the number of routes and capacity across the Scottish rail network. The competitive nature of the franchising mechanism has played a key role in reviving rail transport in the United Kingdom. I believe that the announcement that was made by the minister today has further strengthened that recovery in Scotland. Nevertheless, the transport minister has done well to resist calls from the sirens of the extreme left who would see us return to the investment vacuum and the catastrophic management failures of state-owned monopolies in the 1970s. Keith Brown, however, must guarantee that he will play his part in making this franchise a success. I ask him if he will give a sound undertaking that he will stand by the contract that he has signed and will not exploit any five-year break-close in an inappropriate way to end this contract before it delivers everything that has the capacity to do. First of all, if I can agree with the comments of Alex Johnson on First Group, I think that they have done an excellent job and we have seen real growth in terms of patternage, so we certainly can deal with that. I can also say that I do not share his enthusiasm for franchising, as he well knows. I believe that it is an expensive process to go through. It is expensive for the companies involved and certainly just now it presents an unequal playing field and not allowing public sector bids to come forward. I have argued that for quite some time. Alex Johnson also asked about the situation with the five-year break-close, which is in the contract. That break-close can be activated by either side—either by the Government or by the company themselves—and it can do so for any reason. However, there is no way that I would intend, for inappropriate reasons, to exercise that break-close or to exploit the break-close, as he has mentioned. That break-close has been put in there because circumstances can change and we have to be aware of that fact. All the tenders for the contract knew that at the time, but he also asked, will I be supportive of and continue to support the progress and ambitions of the contract? Of course, there are huge benefits in the contract. It has been the result of very hard work done by Transport Scotland officials. By the Government laying out exactly what our expectations were, whether it was for cyclists, fair payers who say that they are suffering, especially throughout the rest of the UK, in terms of high fares. I am sure that Alex Johnson will be very interested, for example, in the £5 fare from Aberdeen to Inverness or Glasgow or Edinburgh or Dundee. Of course, it is a fare that you have to apply for in advance. There are restrictions to it, but that addresses the fact that some people want to have the cheapest possible fare. I would hope that, rather than some of the comments that were already made by Alex Johnson, he, like me, will be fully behind the success of the contract for the benefit of passengers and for the staff who will deliver those services. I have very many people who wish to ask a question of the minister. If we could have a short question and a fairly short response, that would help us to get through. Stuart Stevenson, followed by James Kelly. Presiding Officer, I welcome the substantial staff improvements in new jobs that come with the new franchise, the living wage, trade unions on the board, 100 new apprentices and the protection of pensions and travel rights. Is it not the case that we must move ahead urgently to deliver for staff? Rather than have them wait for years, perhaps forever, for new railway powers to come to this Parliament, it is simply not the time to put Scotland on hold, especially for an indeterminate period. Stuart Stevenson is exactly right, and it strikes me that people like Mark Griffin really have to try and get over the fact that they were on the winning side in the referendum. Power over these things rests at Westminster. There is no guarantee over powers. I do not know whether they have signed a petition to make sure that we get extra powers, but there is no guarantee for powers. The delays that could be incumbent if we were to delay or cancel the contract would have an impact on the new trains that we are ordering, on fares, the benefits of the new services and the reduced fares would not apply and, of course, the enhanced benefits that Stuart Stevenson rightly points out for staff. No compulsory redundancies during the whole term of the contract, the living wage for every single member of staff, whether it is subcontracted or a direct employee. Those are real advances for the people serving the customers and for the customers themselves. I think that people in Scotland will be interested in the opposition of the Labour Party to this material advance for fair-paying passengers and for the staff that provide those services. James Kelly, followed by Alice MacKinnon. In the light of the decision that takes the prospect of public running of the railways out of contention for 10 years, does the minister still support the pitch that he made in launching his deputy leadership and support of public railways? Will he then be included as part of the SNP's proposals to the Smith commission? I don't know whether— Will it be in the Labour Party's— I'm not sure how— Will it be in yours? Minister— I'm not sure whether James Kelly came into the chamber late. I don't know whether he actually heard my previous responses, but he may have missed out the fact that it was Labour's own position, Labour's position that we should look for a new approach after the end of the franchise that we're about to sign. That's the same as the position that he just outlined. It is the case that Labour Party are all over the place in relation to this. They're not being taken seriously because they've changed their position so often. They were the party that were happy to have franchising. We've heard franchising referred to in glowing terms by Lord Adonis. He never changed it when he had the chance. He never changed it in the Kalman commission. He never changed it in the Scotland Act. He didn't even argue for that change. So a few months ago, you were arguing for us to let this contract and suddenly it's changed, and it's because you're embarrassed by your failure to act in the past. We have acted to protect fair-paying passengers. Thank you, Presiding Officer. A bellio will say that there will be major investment in concourse and retail development to improve links between Aberdeen station and Union Street. I expect that this will be welcomed by people in Manawth East region. Cabinet Secretary, can you tell me the anticipated cost of the project and the timescale and some assurances that there will be thorough community consultation on the project? I'm more unhappy to give the assurance that there will be thorough community consultation. It does involve different parties because it involves infrastructure as well and local authority partners as well. I'm more than happy to provide in writing the details in terms of cost the different parties involved and to underline the reassurance that I've given in terms of community consultation. Morimawr, followed by Jameedy. Presiding Officer, can I welcome the commitment for staff set out in the new franchise contract, which will see all staff and subcontractors paid at least the living wage, 100 new apprenticeships and the guarantee of no compulsory redundancies throughout the lifetime of the contract, as well as staff pensions and travel rights protected, and the representation on the board? That's fantastic. Does the minister agree that it is essential that, rather than putting Scotland on pause, those key benefits for staff should be delivered at the earliest possible opportunity? Morimawr, what is quite right and they will be delivered at the earliest possible opportunity. I think that the one thing that surprises me is that I have not heard one word of welcome from the Labour Party for those key benefits for staff. Jameedy, followed by Neil Bibby. In keeping rail fares affordable in Scotland, can I ask the minister what difference the £5 intercity fare and reduced ticket prices for job seekers and those new lane work will make to the people and economy of Scotland? Can he set out a timescale for the delivery of more cycle spaces at stations and on trains and the introduction of a bike and go cycle hire scheme? The last point that Jameedy makes, he will be aware, of course, has started that process already. I am very pleased in my own area to have launched the bike hire scheme and bike shop at the Stirling station just outside my constituency. Further benefits in terms of the work of Recycle Bike, a tremendous local organisation that prepares and provides bikes at cheap costs to local families. That work has started already and is on-going. As the other part of Jameedy's question in relation to the new services, it will start when the new contractor takes over the franchise, which will be in 1 April next year. The point about cyclists, of course, is that we will get more information out in due course, but what they intend to do is to make sure that people are able to park their bikes more easily at stations and also where they can to take them on to trains in greater numbers, which we have had a real demand for. Those are real advantages, which will mean that we can have a much more integrated element towards transport. I mentioned also the fact that some of the concourse improvements in signage will also tell people about ferry arrivals and bus arrivals, trying to make sure that buses—we have obliged all the bidders to look at this when they made their bids—buses connect far better with rail services rather than leaving five minutes before a train arrives. All those things are benefits that we should start to see. We are seeing some of them already, and we will start to see them more in the months to come. Neil Bibby, followed by Aileen McLeod. Delivering the living wage for your procurement is a good thing. It is a shame that you did not think that a couple of months ago when you voted against it minister in the procurement bill. Since 2008, ScotRail has made £100 million of profits, 95 per cent of which have gone to shareholders. What are the projections for the profits to be made by the new franchise holder? How much money will be taken out of the Scottish rail network and not reinvested in the Scottish rail network? I do not know whether Neil Bibby is aware, but it was the Labour Government in 2004 that awarded the franchise in the first place to ScotRail. It was the franchise framework that the Labour Government had in the past. If he has a concern about the profits as he sees it, we have in place provision to make sure that there are excess profits that come back to the Government, so we have done that. We have done that in relation to the new contract as well. The second point is his late conversion to the idea of the living wage, which Labour did nothing about when they were in power. What we are seeing is that there was no living wage in 2004 when Labour Party had a chance to do it. This is a Government that has taken action on living wage, not just for directly employed people, but by people employed by subcontractors. We are taking action where Labour only talked about it. Aileen McLeod, followed by Alison Johnstone. I welcome the announcement of a great scenic railway of Scotland scheme bringing more tourists to the south-west, the borders and the north. Can the minister outline the benefits that will be delivered from my constituents in the south-west of Scotland? That is a very good point. I know that it has been already warmly welcomed by tourist organisations across Scotland. As Aileen McLeod knows, not least because in her area we have had the first community rail partnership established. There is real pride in sections of the railway that we want people to take ownership of. We will see, as I have already mentioned, the tourist ambassadors, which will help people to locate and get to the attractions that we have and the scenery that we have all around Scotland. That should benefit places across the whole of Scotland, including the area that Aileen McLeod represents. Alison Johnstone, followed by John Mason. Thank you, Presiding Officer. I would like to inform the chamber of hospitality provided to me by Abelio during the Commonwealth Games in my position as co-convener of the cross-party group on cycling. There is a huge public appetite for bringing rail back into public hands. Green colleagues in Westminster are leading a bill that would allow the re-nationalisation as franchises run out. Can the transport minister confirm that the optional five-year breakpoint in this franchise will allow a Scottish public sector operator to make a bid at that point, providing that power is devolved from Westminster to allow it? The key thing in the tale is the last part of Alison Johnstone's question, providing that Westminster allows the powers to do that. Of course, we are going to argue for the maximum possible powers over the rail network in Scotland. We have done that for many years. We have argued for the franchising process itself to be expanded to allow public sector bids. There is no guarantee that a public sector bid comes along, or that it is successful, but we have argued for that. In relation to the five-year break, I have mentioned that already. What we do is exercise that only in the responsible and appropriate way. Who can say in five years time what the situation is? I think that we have to go into these contracts with the intention of seeing through the contract. If circumstances change, either for the party providing the service or for the Government—and of course you have to look at that again—but you have to go into it with the intention to have the contract. That is what bidders who are bidding for this process, as we are obliged to do, expect. That is the way that we will follow proceedings in terms of the five-year break. John Mason will follow by Ken Macintosh. There seems to be quite a lot of good news linked to this contract from what I can see. Can the minister confirm that, as well as taking on the first ScotRail staff in Glasgow, they are actually going to bring new staff to Glasgow and have a new function there? John Mason has a very good point about what Abilio intends to do to bring their UK headquarters to Scotland in Glasgow. With that, there will also be a shared services centre. In total, we are talking about 200 jobs, so major benefits in terms of that. I think that that shows the level of commitment that Abilio has to this process, a real boost for people in terms of jobs. As I have mentioned, the point about jobseekers in the past is the idea of making it easier for jobseekers to get around the country and the newly employed, perhaps before they even start receiving a wage to be able to get around the country more cheaply. That shows and demonstrates the Government's commitment to driving up employment and to helping out some of the more disadvantaged people in society. Can the minister tell us, rather than his views on Labour's position, whether he considered using the powers that already exist within this Parliament to consider either a co-operative, a mutual or a not-for-profit franchise, as for example proposed by the real union Aslef or by the co-op? Further to Alison Johnstone's question, whether or not the five-year contract break would allow a future administration to go down that route, or are we committed to a 10 years of Scotland's privatised railways? I think that I have answered the question of the five-year break twice now, which is to say that, of course, the five-year break can be exercised by either party in relation to that. Ken Macintosh's other point about the not-for-profit bid. We have said from the very start of this process that we would be more than happy to see a not-for-profit bid come forward. Some of the organisations that he mentioned were very interested in that and were also asked if they wanted to come forward with a bid, and they said that they were unable to do so. It is also, if he checks into it, one of the provisions is that you have to have some background and experience in providing real services, which we have at least one organisation, public sector organisation in Scotland that is able to do that. We are not able to favour one bid over another. I think that Ken Macintosh knows that fact. Of course, we have always been ready to welcome any not-for-profit bid that did not come forward. That ends the statement from the minister. I apologise to the two members. I could not call, but the motions this afternoon are extremely tight. The next item of business is a debate on motion 11114, in the name of Graham Pierce.


Yeah, so on the woman's side, we talked before the race about them going out a little conservative, the first 2K, which is the first loop of our course, and then kind of working into it. And they all did a good job. I mean, they all listened. They all ran a stronger second half of the race than the first half, which is what we were looking for. And Kelly really opened up the last 1200 meters and looked really strong. So on the men's side, we had a similar strategy to the woman. It was to go out conservative, the first 2 to 4K, and then gradually pick it up and finish really strong. And you can see that if you saw the mile splits and everything, you see that they had a good pack and they worked their way up. Langston worked his way up from the group he was in, and they all finished really strong over that last half of the race and had a really good last 2K, which is that was our plan. Yeah, so there was definitely improvements from last week to today. I mean, last week, we didn't really race the whole race. And this week, we raced maybe three quarters of the race. They're all tired, and they're all a little discouraged based on their times. They might have had some higher goals, but they're super tired right now. We're training really hard. We haven't really taken a break or what we call a down week. And next week, we're going to rest up a little bit and see what they can do up in New York City at Van Cortland Park.


Hi everyone, Joe for Jaspy's CaseBreaks.com coming out to a 2022 Panini National Treasures. FIFA Road to World Cup Soccer. Pick your team number 47. That's from a fresh pace ladies and gentlemen. There it is. And I think by my searching in the store, I think that's the only case we have left. So let's keep working on it here on Thursday, March the 2nd. Thanks to the people who bought their team straight up, I appreciate it. CJ, Poland, LastBot and Mojo before we pulled the remainder of the teams for that random number block randomizer, which we did in a separate video. And the results are right here. Alright, now let's pop open this fresh case. Let's use the die and see which box we're going to do. We'll use that Liverpool red die right there. So from top to bottom, we'll go 1, 2, 3, 4 on the dice roll. If I roll a 5 or a 6, I'll just roll again. And it's 2. Second box down. These we'll save for next time. Good luck everybody. There's all the cards right here. We'll use the blank card to hide the hits. Slow play a little bit. Create a little extra added suspense. Alright, first one out of the gate is Balo de Bala, 25 out of 99 for Argentina. That's for Brian, the world champs. We've got 40 out of 99, Weston McKenzie, nice for the United States. Anthony of the US, automatically qualifying. We are hosting the World Cup along with Canada and Mexico, North America World Cup action should be exciting. Got a redemption. It is timeless talent signatures. Wayne Rooney, nice for the three Lions. England is a number block team. Rosario with Wayne Rooney, nice. Is Wayne Rooney back in the States? He was doing like the player coach thing in the UK for a little bit. He was with DC United back in the day. I want to say, what is he currently doing? Who is the current manager of DC United? There you go. Here's John Stones, 18 out of 99 for the three Lions. So Wayne Rooney goes to Rosario, number zero. Zero gets any and all redemptions. And the Stones goes to number eight. Jason with the number eight. That's what it was. Thank you, Cartwright. That was Darby County. Alright, next is Andrés Guardado, 63 out of 99 for L3. And that's Victor with the triple relic. Next up is Cristiano Ronaldo, 45 out of 49. Biography Materials for Portugal. Matthew. Let's see, R7. 19 out of 25. That's Hans. Oh, Hattboro. That's for the Orange. Netherlands. Netherlands are a number block team. So that goes to Netherlands nine. And that's for John. A few more here. We have Brian Reynolds, 64 out of 99. For the United States going to Anthony. A couple more here. We have Olivier Giroux, 12 out of 99 for Le Bleu. That's going to go to Daniel Dilo down. Nice. And last but not least, who do we have here we have? Hey, I got Landon Donovan. Nice. Seven out of 99. National Archives, Inc. U.S. soccer legend, Anthony with the United States. And there you go, gang. That was just the first box from a fresh case. Let's get into another one. Jaspy's Case of Breaks.com. Thanks for watching, everybody. I'm Joe. I'll do some more footy with you next time. Bye-bye.


This is security police headquarters. We've just seen the photo printed. It's impossible. I said impossible No matter what the evidence proves. No man can be two places at once 2000 plus science fiction adventures in the world of tomorrow 2000 plus presents the other man When I come home, I want my wife to be here. Hey, didn't you hear me? Say what's the matter? When did you escape? How did you get away escape? Would you mind telling me quiet? I Thought I heard someone Just a moment darling There now We can talk. Oh Scotty I couldn't understand what had happened to you. I was so worried.    When this morning Look darling, I know this is the year 2000 plus 120, but even in this age of super science There's no jet plane fast enough to fly me from Cairo, Egypt a Metropolitan City, USA that fast. Scotty. I'm telling you the truth Look, I'll show you. It's all over the front pages of this like similar newspaper See There's the whole story in headlines and your picture too read it read it The world security police and a daring action in Cairo, Egypt today captured Scott Douglas Chief of the Eastern Zone Security Police section As the chief criminal behind a worldwide black market operation running into millions of dollars annually in The struggle proceeding his arrest Mr. Douglas shot and killed a mysterious stranger wearing a blue turban You see darling, it is true not only in the papers, but all day in the telebox news I've seen it Scotty with my own eyes being taken to the police to the air to the airport It was you scum. I tell you this is not true. It's not me Look call my office ask for the chief. Ask him what this is all about. They know you've escaped. They'll come here They'll capture you again. They won't do any such thing because none of it's true Look if you're worried about it, don't tell them. I'm here if you ask you deny it But for heaven's sake call him All right, Scotty All right, mr. Enright Hello, Mira. I was rather expecting you to call You want to know about Scotty, don't you I can't understand it mr. Enright I've seen it in the papers on the telebox, but I can't believe it. I'm afraid it's true, Mira But are you certain it's got there's no doubt of it But how do you know by the obvious methods? It looks like Scotty. It talks like Scotty It's wearing Scotty's clothes carrying Scotty's wallet with your picture and his private papers in it Small birthmark on the left arm same blood type same fillings in the teeth and the fingerprints are exactly Scotty's I had everything double-checked by audio from Egypt against Scotty's personal identification file here and to top it all off, Mira I talked to him by audio phone just a few minutes before the jet plane took off I'm sorry. I see Thank you, mr. Just one thing more mirror Scotty is due to land in about three hours I'll send someone over in a little while to pick you up. I know you'll want to see him. Thank you. Thank you It's unbelievable It's fantastic Mira. I who are you? Who are you who am I? I'm your husband. I'm Scott Douglas. I'm going to call the police. I'll stop it. I am Scotty Look at me mirror. I am your husband No one can fool you about that. Look at me Good Lord mirror. Look look Look, here's my wallet the one he talked about see It is mine. You know it look touch it thumb through it There's a picture There's the stitching where I had it repaired last October remember mirror when I didn't want to throw it away for sentimental reasons because we Bought it that night last summer at the Little Bazaar Who would know that mirror except your husband? Who would remember that except me? Here look at this pull my sleeve up The birthmark on my left arm Nobody could fake that ugly thing. You know that mark every twist of it Fingerprints fingerprints. I'll give you all you want have them checked anywhere you want. I Am Scott Douglas. I am your husband Then who? Who was the other man? That's the police Scotty. They're here to pick me up and take you to the airport to meet your husband Oh Scotty, I'm frightened. You must never let anyone know that it's the only way I'll ever be able to figure this thing out I'll try darling Just a moment. I'm coming. Oh I remember this whole thing may be a trick I don't know why or for what reason but there's always the possibility of this was a Deliberate deception, but they can't for me Mirror they you believed all the publicity all the newspaper reports everything you saw on the telebox That's what I can understand this whole thing's being carried out so openly so boldly Actors if they're so sure of themselves. I I've got to go now. They'll be suspicious. Yes. Yes, and I'll remember our plan after you leave I'll get out of here. I don't know where I'll go But I'll get in touch with you from time to time You'll always know it's me and not the other man because I'll use the code word Bizarre I know darling. You don't have to tell me again. All right and act toward this other man as if he really were me At least do that for a while. It's obviously what they expect of you. Yes. Yes, Scotty. You've told me a dozen times. I know what to do Goodbye darling Yes, what is it playing from Cairo with Douglas aboard coming in sir, okay? Over here mirror. We can see the plane land from this window. We'll be landing over there by that ramp who were those men security police I'm sorry mirror, but we can't take any chance of Scotty escapades. We've taken great care ever since his arrest And I think I wonder what What you look like little tired perhaps, but it's Scotty. I told you that Well, plain stopped You'll see him in a moment mirror. Now look when he comes in here. Don't break down He's going to need all the courage and help you can give him there look It it doesn't look like Scotty Yes Raisins coming up sir bring him in the moment he arrives. Yes Do you like a drink mirror? No, no, thanks Nothing, please All right men outside leave Douglas with me. Hello Scotty. Hello chief Hello, Miram Hello, I think I'll look I'll leave you two alone for a while. Thanks chief I'm glad to hear mirror. I was wondering if you would be were you Mirro, what's the matter? It's so cold so distant Darling, I don't understand. Don't you want to talk to me mirror? I don't know It's all been a terrible shock to you hasn't it? What did you learn did the chief call you know I First learned to the newspaper Then the telebox you mean it's it's been published broadcast Good Lord everybody knows then that's right Oh darling, I'm sorry. I Hardly know what happened myself the last few days were a blur a blank All I remember is a room in a hotel in Cairo a man with a blue turban the police I became panic-stricken. There was a fight a shot and then the arrest and The talk about the black market. I Don't know what that means Mary looks so strange But heaven's sake, what's the matter?  What do you mean? I'm not Scotty. It's a trick. I think you're serious call them in Tell them I know Mirror, what have they done to you said to you? I could ask you those questions And I could also ask you who are you who am? This is crazy. Let me see your birthmark. What? Alright look It's me dolly. You know that's real Let me see the wallet. You mean this There it is your picture Even the stitching I had done when I wouldn't throw it away. You remember darling It is the wallet It looks just like it. What did you expect? They couldn't fake it. They have ways a Wallet could be faked look mirror. I don't understand all this But I am your husband. I am Scotty. Let me prove it to you ask me anything about us anything. Oh Where did we go last summer to Paris for two weeks? We stayed at the hotel George fifth What did we do when we first got there? We opened the window and sang a silly song about Paris We made it up as we went along and then And then I kissed you We were alone No one could have seen we went out had a drink you ordered champagne in the afternoon the way to try to talk you out Stop it. I was on the plane. You saw that All right, all right darling if you say I take it easy honey don't If you say Scotty was at home, then that's where I was home Home I've got the reports from Cairo chief complete as completely as they'll ever be They just came in via high-frequency telebox. We had photo prints made here. They are never mind Just give me the highlights. Well, the man in the blue turban was Mustafa Cornelius He made his living in art sold pictures and things. What was he doing in Scotty's room? Oh probably picking up some stuff You know the place was filled with pictures and Scotty said he doesn't know how they got there He said that even when we showed him Egyptian police reports that he and Mustafa had been followed for two days And on several occasions Scotty was carrying pictures himself. So he was lying. No, he wasn't We gave him a lie detective test and he came through 100% I didn't know that but it's true And why was Scotty and Cairo anyway? He had no orders to go there. How do you explain that? He didn't he said he couldn't remember. Well, this is one for the books Sounds like two other guys. That's not so funny. What do you mean? That's not so funny When Scotty got off the plane and came in here. I turned on the intercom and left him and mirror together I listened to their conversations in the outer office learn anything. I don't know Except that mirror seemed to doubt it was Scotty not a way them in it was I know it was Scotty and you know it was Scotty But why wouldn't Scotty's own wife know it was Scotty. I don't know I don't either Two other guys, huh? Well, we know that the Scotty who got off the plane is safely locked up in this building You and I are going to see his wife and try to figure this puzzle out. Come on Hello mirror mr. Enright, I want to talk to you and close the door Paul right You you shouldn't have come here. Why not? I have some questions to ask you. I'm expecting someone please go It'll only take a few minutes mirror. I want to help Scotty, but I can't do it alone I'll come to your office, but the chief wants some answers now, Mrs. Douglas. Oh Then come in here. Thanks when my visitor comes I must ask you to stay in here of course I'm sorry to have disturbed you like this, but there are some very strange things about this man What do you mean strange? Why didn't you believe that was Scotty in my office?  It's the Scotty. I know now. Why don't you believe that? That's one of the things that puzzles me one of the strange things. Where's Scotty now? That's your doorbell person you're expecting Scottie now attention house in a cell Why aren't you answering the door? You stay here, please stay here until I get back Chief she's as nervous as a rate of scope Put your ear to the door and listen It's a man can't make out what they're saying Nothing vaguely familiar. Oh, no, it can't be. What do you mean chief? Thank you gun All right now just don't move Hello chief Mary was just telling me you were here Scotty I Don't know how you did it, but escaping from detention is a very serious. I didn't escape. I've never been there. I've never been to Cairo I don't know what's going on in right, but I'm glad you're here. So this whole mess can be cleared up Don't move Scotty Get on the audio phone Paul. Yes, the call headquarters have them check on Scotty, right? Scotty you and I have been friends for ten years now. What kind of a game are you playing? I don't think friends hold a gun. What do you want me to do? Let you get away again, Mr. I told you mixed up as I am admit it You see Scotty I overheard the conversation you and Mira had at headquarters, but I wasn't I argue about it We'll know in a moment Yes, what is it? Well Scotty you're still there in a cell What still there now wait a minute. That's what they say get them to put Scotty on the phone. Yes, sir We'll get to the bottom of this pretty quickly now. Let's go into the other room. Come on Chief wants to talk to you Here he is keep them covered Hello Yes, chief that you Scotty. Yes, sir. I just wanted to be sure She put on others going on You don't have to talk to me to be sure not when you've got me locked in a cell that dynamite couldn't blow okay, Scotty Scotty Who you're talking to the Scott Douglas who got off the plane from Cairo this morning, but I'm Scott Douglas Chief you've seen Mira. I want to talk to her again. Just hang on a moment I'll just repeat after me. I am Scott Douglas of the world security police now look you All right, I am Scott Douglas of the world security police Okay, let's hear you say that Say what I tell you I Am Scott Douglas of the world security police This aren't exactly alike What you do is what you've been doing all day you wait for me in your cell And you're coming along with me. What are you going to do? Mrs. Douglas?  Enron. I can't believe it. It's absolutely incredible He looks just like me. What is this chief? What have either of you two ever seen each other before? Every morning in the mirror. What kind of a gag is I'll be quiet both of you Yes, chief. Have you got those reports about two minutes? Let me know Now one of you two is an imposter. I will say this the resemblance is fantastic You the one we had in the cell we got your fingerprints teeth Identifications birthmark and so on when you were arrested they all verified that you are the real Scott Douglas. I've told you that all along I'm Scott Douglas chief. Whatever is going on here. You are in a few minutes We'll have the results of the fingerprint identification check. We had you take before I brought Scotty up from downstairs Yes, I've got the report chief well everything check sir now come on talk sense. Will you what do you mean everything checks? Fingerprints teeth identification birthmarks everything checks sir. They're both Scott Douglas All right now remember don't interrupt me The only way I can tell you to a part is by the clothes you wear you You're wearing a tropical suit the one you had on when we picked you up in Cairo.  That's your name tweed that clear right here The last two hours of questioning has revealed that the memory of your lives is exactly the same up to four days ago Whatever questions you were asked separately. You both answered the same intimate questions family questions every kind but as of four days ago the police interrogate his report that you Tropical you are hazy almost blank until the arrest and murder in Cairo. That's right, sir On the other hand you tweed you have a clear memory except for a few hours three days ago. Now here. Let me read it Pursuant to file 198 I was ordered to visit a mr. David Eitner suspected of dealing in black market paintings at 223 West 18th Street and to pose as a buyer of rare paintings Mr. Eitner conducted himself in a reasonable and normal manner and exhibited several paintings allegedly genuine old masters During our conversation. I heard a faint oscillating sound in the room and inquired whether it was the air conditioning unit and then I blacked out Now at this point your two memories separate You both remember everything up to the moment Scott Douglas blacked out But after that tweed's memory does not pick up until two hours has passed then he reports The next thing I knew I awoke lying on the floor I thought I'd been slugged but subsequent examination by police medical authority showed no injury of any sort The assumption was that I had fainted but no reason for this possibility was advanced The paintings together with mr. Eitner were nowhere to be found when I regained consciousness subsequent police investigation failed to reveal any trace of mr. Eitner or his paintings So there it is and you tropical you remember nothing for the next several days until we picked you up in Cairo I remember that report very well. I wrote it, but he couldn't have known about the first part of that report I went along no one else. I was there. That was my rep. Oh, you too It's bad enough seeing double without you two talking double and remembering double Two hours Two hours what happened in those two hours chief? I've got an idea. What is it probably nothing to it after three days But why don't we visit 223 west 18th street again? Let's see whether mr. Eitner possibly left something behind when he fled with the paintings It's pretty empty now This is where he had several old paintings hanging on the wall This is where I was standing when I blacked out That's right chief. I walked over there from here and then it happened. What's that that sound came from over there that class on Come out of there Come on. I'll shoot. Do not shoot sahib. No, do not kill me.  If you don't talk I make no promises. I have children.  Let's see that instrument open the panel Looks like a control board What does it do? I do not know the words to describe it Only mustafa knew because he was very wise and very scientific You know how to operate this oh yes sahib Mustafa show me what to do and I work longer was doing that for our both becoming very rich Show us what it does and remember any danger results. This man has a gun. You'll be the first to die I understand sahib Give me something for the instrument What do you mean give you something? I try to explain Give me something a picture perhaps there are no pictures here then A ring perhaps a watch Would I show a dog anything does this make any sense play along with him chief here Here's a ring and a watch Thank you sahib I place them in here Unclose this small door I turn on the instrument That's the sound the sound I heard he's right chief the sound before I blacked out now. What do you do? A moment until the bell sound It is finished Now you see There are now two watches two rings. Let me see them Great dynamos of niagra. They're exactly alike Even to the scratches the the dirt marks everything. Let me see them You're right Identical perfect copies. No no sahib. They are not copies All are original but that can't be the ones I gave you were the originals the others are the copies. That's right Just a minute chief Look at this marking molecular duplicator What did you say molecular duplicator? That's right That means it's somehow Well, it's possible theoretically, but it means that the molecules and atoms of the originals are Perfectly duplicated And we know that if somehow the atoms and molecules could be exactly arranged You'd actually have two originals We're only one existed before yes Yes, sahib that is what mustapha say Those are the words that I do not know how to use all right now. Listen to me. You does it rat Does this machine work on anything other than inanimate objects in none? I do not understand sahib. Does it work on living things dogs birds Human beings it has worked on a dog sahib Mustapha he had a dog he liked so much He make himself another dog like it with this instrument Then And it would work on human beings too, but the dog One of them. I do not know which one of them The dog he died very horribly sahib What do you mean died horribly one day About a month after the first dog become two dog One day the dog bark and whine It is in agony sahib And before my eyes it I Do not know how to say it It is disappear Slowly as if it fall apart And in a little while there is nothing left Nothing Molecular disintegration Our living flesh the effect of the machine lasts only a limited time chief Which one of us? him Or me Which one of us is scott duglas? Next week 2000 plus presents another exciting melodrama from the world of tomorrow For thrilling for thrillers that are different join us again next week and every week 2000 plus is produced by drier and when olsen productions incorporated In today's cast rel fell portrayed scottie Joan shea was mirror napolyn was the chief and gilbert mac was the arrow The orchestra was conducted by emerson buckley music composed by elliott chicoby sound waltz shaver and adrian penner engineer ed formica This is ken marvin speaking 2000 plus is a regular presentation of the united states armed forces radio service


Our top story tonight, two cats ruthlessly tossed over a six foot tall pet shelter fence, abandoning them in an area for dogs. It happened after their owner was turned away from the shelter in Bemidji. That man could face animal cruelty charges for leaving the animals. Mal Meyer has the details. But yeah, look, oh my gosh, he just throws that thing in there. Ridiculous. In surveillance video shown to LPTV, a man is seen walking into Great River Rescue on Saturday to give up two cats. The receptionist tells him they are unable to do same day intake. The man appears to leave, but after reversing his car, he then opens the trunk and throws two cats into a dog enclosure. It was probably about 10 or 15 minutes past before staff noticed that there were two cats outside. Luckily, no dogs were in the area at the time and the cats appear relatively unharmed. The footage was shocking for Tennille Thompson, who is not there at the time, but heard about it from coworkers when the cats were originally discovered. It annoys the crowd at me because it's not a toy that you can just throw away. You're dealing with a living being. The unidentified owner could face charges of animal cruelty for abandonment. We do have surveillance cameras here, so hopefully he's going to get charged criminally for what he did. The shelter says that there are many ways for pet owners to give their furry friends a new home. Throwing them over a fence was not one of them. Hey, Wessler. The shelter says in this case and others that if they are unable to accept the pet, they can provide connections to other resources. Only so much we can do is people and being this is a nonprofit, there is only so much we can do, period. However, even if the animal is astray, if you take it in, that makes you responsible. You just have to be fully committed and aware that maybe you're going to have to take care of this animal for a few days until you find its owner or until you can bring it to a shelter or other rescue. In Bemidji, I'm Mal Meyer, Lakeland News. The cats have since been brought to the city pound and may return to the shelter for adoption after a claiming period. The director of the shelter says he will bring the video footage to the police department tomorrow in order to bring charges against the man. If you've enjoyed this segment of Lakeland News, please consider making a tax deductible contribution to Lakeland Public Television.


Hello and welcome to the Circular Metabolism Podcast. This podcast is hosted by the Chair of Circular Economy and Urban Metabolism held by Aristides de Tannassiades and Stefan Kanpermann at the Université Libre de Bruxelles. In this podcast, we talk with researchers, policymakers and different practitioners to unravel the complex aspects of what makes urban metabolism and economies more circular. Hello and welcome to the Circular Metabolism Podcast. This podcast is produced by the Chair of Circular Economy and Urban Metabolism at the Université Libre de Bruxelles, held by Aristides de Tannassiades and Stefan Kanpermann. In this podcast, we discuss with researchers, administrators and practitioners to clarify the different aspects that make the economy and metabolism of our cities more circular. On episode number 8 of the Circular Metabolism Podcast, we had the chance to chat with Julia Voll. Previously, governments and cities network manager at the Ellen MacArthur Foundation. I was particularly interested to discuss with Julia to better understand how the Ellen MacArthur Foundation managed to create such a momentum around circular economy in such a short notice. Indeed, as a researcher on this topic for quite some time, I have always wondered why this expression became so popular compared to the green economy, the blue economy or resiliency, for instance, and what were the arguments that convinced this vast array of stakeholders ranging from very large companies to governments and to start-ups. According to Julia, circular economy took off so quickly because unlike other sustainability agendas and plans, it was an economic agenda that is focusing on innovation, business development, job creation, and which made sense to most businesses. On top of that, the Ellen MacArthur Foundation managed to be at the right place at the right time to capitalize on existing initiatives from sustainability to corporate social responsibility, but make them much more operational. While I could understand why the private sector would be motivated to include circular economy principles in their business models, it was still hard to understand why local, regional, and national governments were also interested in this concept. Julia mentions that they also see the economic benefits of circular economy, but governments and administrations also faced new sets of systemic challenges which were less present 10 to 20 years ago. In that sense, they need to reinvent themselves, create new types of growth, take care of job creation, but also, most importantly, face their materiality. With recent events like the China ban, cities become suddenly aware of their need to take care of their used materials. Yet, how do we make a city more circular, which doesn't necessarily own all of the infrastructures and economic sectors needed to deploy circular economy strategies? For Julia, at the city scale, we could do so if we focus on the circular economy from a design perspective. So not only how to recycle more, but how do we engage with businesses that provide the services that are used in cities, such as mobility, food, etc. By engaging with daily users, and given that it is a densely populated area over a limited territory, cities can become a hotbed for design, material, and business model innovations. So far, Julia has identified two approaches to facilitate and accelerate the uptake of circular economy in cities. First, cities like Amsterdam, Brussels, and Charlotte, for instance, develop an urban metabolism study to have a better knowledge on the flows entering and exiting the city, in order to identify the priority sectors upon which to focus. The second approach used by cities like London, Phoenix and Toronto is to identify the existing biggest players that could have an impact on the circular economy and try working with them to have a higher impact. In addition, the city has a role to recognize the most promising ventures in their context and to provide funding and infrastructures to help them grow. This is where bigger companies can also come into play as they can make a pilot in one city and then scale up in more cities. In such a complex system, to scale up the circular economy, you need a resilient ecosystem of diverse actors. This means on the one hand, smaller and on the ground actors to cater for context-specific aspects of different cities and users, and on the other hand, bigger ones that can generalize solutions across the globe. Finally, based on the real hype around circular economy in the last decade, I wanted to ask Julia, how can we prevent circular washing, or in other words, the abuse of this expression for just minimal or artificial initiatives without really changing their core business models? For Julia, if companies are doing so, they're just missing out on business development and revenue opportunities, which will hurt them on the long run. Enjoy this episode and don't forget to visit our website www.circularmetabolism.com for the rest of our productions. Before you go, please help us improve our podcast by subscribing to your favorite app, including YouTube, iTunes, Spotify or Stitcher and leave us a comment with your thoughts. It's great to also have a hear of what's happening worldwide, because I guess Ellen MacArthur Foundation is perhaps the go-to foundation when we talk about circular economy, and you probably have a good idea of what happens around the world, and especially in the realms of cities. First of all, to have an idea of, we had this discussion beforehand, why do you think circular economy is so popular nowadays, or what made it to become this expression that governments use, that companies use, that researchers use so frequently? Thank you, first of all, for having me over. It's really a pleasure to be here in Copenhagen and seeing the great event that was organized by the region, and see all the amazing initiatives going on in Brussels. I think it's definitely one of the most pioneering cities in the region we're working with, and it's quite impressive to see the momentum, and so many things are happening, so much building in the city, and it's really looking forward for the next couple of days to learn more about it. Regarding your question, I think that the circular economy has made, it became so popular and really took off because as opposed to many of the other sustainability agendas, this is not a sustainability agenda. This is an economic agenda that is driving innovation, business development, job creation. A lot of the things that are so important for us today, and it just makes sense to people. It is very clear rationale that connects the environmental aspects of things, the economic aspect of things, and the social aspect of things into a quite systemic approach, and people can resonate and say, okay, this makes sense. I can see how it can create new revolutions, how it can help me develop new business models, improve the livability of people in my city. I think this is really not being a green agenda, but really an innovation agenda. That's where it landed well, and we are really happy to see that it's been picked up so fast. One might say, I think we started about eight years ago, and suddenly there is a circular economy package for the commission. There's lots of things happening in the corporates in cities, so yeah, it's quite tremendous to see. I really liked and enjoyed what you said, the systemic approach, and I think a lot of times the systemic approach lacks from these green deals or from these economy plans. It's one or the other, now you try to combine both. I think you're right, the word economy really helps in this agenda in this discussion. Now, why Ellen MacArthur Foundation? How did you manage to bring people together, and what was this reason of success? Do you have any hints? Well, I think there are a couple of factors in playing. I think, first of all, there is something around being in the right time, in the right place, perhaps. There has been sustainability talk has been evolving for the past few decades, and I think probably at the turn of the century and in the early 2000s it was CSR was driving the agenda, but I think it became quite evident to many, especially businesses, that CSR and all of these sustainability initiatives, they are very incremental. They require a lot of investments, and they are preferable to the business model, and it's absolutely not very clear how it helps you to generate new revenues. So I think that being the market, it became more and more ready for something different, and the fact that the people that were founding the Ellen MacArthur Foundation have managed to bring a couple of schools of thoughts like by mimicry and cradle to cradle, and industrial symbiosis, and combine them in a way that was easy to visualize and has made clear economic rationale behind it. That's why companies jumped on it, and I think that the couple first report came in 2012-13 really outlined the economic opportunity, and that would help to get the first movers, the first pioneers on board, and once they jumped on board, then you know, everybody wanted to jump on a successful wagon. Of course, when you hear big companies such as Philips, such as the biggest ones were the first Renault and all of the big six, or I don't know how you call them, the first ones who jumped in the wagon, you're already impressed, because it's not that easy to put these, well, in a relatively new concept to bring them on board. Well, I guess Philips already had some on the ground and practice. I don't remember when the pay for locks was already installed. I think it was around the same time, it was when they started experimenting with that. So they were already, let's say, doing what they thought was important, but so companies is, let's say, the biggest component, I think, why circular economy is now thriving. Now there are also cities and regions and governments that are behind it. Why do you think they are so interested? They also see it from an economic point of view, they see it, what's their rationale, do you think? I think they are seeing a lot of the economic aspects in that, but I think also right now, governments, there is local, regional, national, they are faced with really new sets of challenge that were maybe less relevant than 20 years ago. They need to reinvent themselves, they need to create new types of growth, they need to address the job situation. Also the question of materials is becoming more and more evident. On the one hand, materials are becoming more scarce and volatile. On the other hand, we end up with abundance of used materials in cities and regions and legislation like China Bank. Now cities are like, what am I going to do with all this plastic? I think they are being pushed into looking into new ways of doing things and really getting some of the pioneering governments on board. The city of London, the Danish government, Slovenian, it was really helping us to demonstrate, okay, there is space for that and when we walk together with the Danish government on the toolkit for policymakers, it was really helping us outline the economic opportunities for sectors and countries. So now we can say, if you are food producing country, this is the set of opportunities you are looking into. If you focus on what country or region you are building, construction, this is your set of opportunities. So it really helped to demonstrate there is concrete things that policymakers care about and need to have in order to be voted in again. So here it is. So of course, nations are slightly easier than cities because at least they have the entire economic sector represented and they have some infrastructure already there. In cities, it's a bit more difficult because sometimes the infrastructure, the waste management or the reuse or the recycling plants are not necessarily within the city boundaries and sometimes you, like Brussels, it's a very much a service-based economy and I find that slightly more challenging, I guess, than nations. How do we make a city more circular or what's the approach when we're talking about cities? Well, I'm not necessarily sure that it's easier for national governments because national governments are much more slow and everything that has to go through legislation is always being quite challenging. Again, for example, that's why circular economy took off faster in, for example, Denmark or Slovenia because they are small countries. You compare that to the UK and all of Denmark is smaller than the London population. So yes, they have more control over some of the sectors. But I think if you approach, if you look at the circular economy from a design perspective and not thinking, oh, we just need to recycle more, but how do we engage the businesses that are providing some of the services and products that people consume in cities, whether it's mobility or building houses or the clothing that we wear and thinking, okay, on a city level, how can we create a circular economy that is engaging the users, the daily users, how do we develop new business models that leverage on the fact that it's dense population over a small geographical area and is rich in people and data and how do we engage all these advantages of the city to try and be a hard bet for innovation, both design innovation, material innovation and business model innovation. Then cities have advantage. You can pilot some new mobility service on a Brussels level and it's quite easy, right? Same about we work with retailers, we're now going to start piloting new leasing business models in cities around the world and they are leveraging on the fact that it's a lot of young people living in cities, they're open for innovation, they all have iPhones, it's easy to access them and try new things with them. And so I think it's a great point, so the size might matter. Therefore, I'm wondering, have you, from a city to another, have you seen any patterns or each city completely differing in the way they uptake circular economy? I mean, you mentioned London, let's say London and Brussels, do they have, so I guess the economic sectors are frequently similar, like the construction sector, the food sector, let's say the retail sector, but except from that, is there any, the implementation, is it similar or you know, there are very much context-based factors that differentiate the uptake of circular economy in London and in Brussels? I think that there are probably two scores of approach. One is done, for example, by Amsterdam and Brussels, Charlotte, North Carolina, we start working closely with them and what they did. So they report a couple of days ago, yeah. Exactly, what they've done, it was very similar to what happened in Brussels, they did urban metabolism approach. They said, okay, we have x amount of materials that are going to waste from built environment and from textiles and this is for us the highest priorities on the agenda right now because that's where we have the biggest impact potential and they build their circular economy and you guys are building circular economy approach around the urban metabolism output. And then there is cities like London and probably Phoenix, Toronto, that are more looking into, okay, we understand circular economy, we know who is here and is willing to work on it, let's see who are the biggest impactors in the field that are present in the city and try to build our circular economy approach around working with them. So what exists already? Yeah, exactly. For city like London, it's easy because they have everything out of everything, right? But for Phoenix, for example, they leveraged on a very strong university present in the city and the ASU, which is I think one of the largest universities in North America and they have a very advanced innovation approach. So they built a circular economy hub around the university and the landfill and say, okay, if we divert materials from landfill and it is end of pipe approach, but I think that's that is where you need to be flexible, where you need to start somewhere. Yeah. And right now they managed, they already probably exceeding the rate of their plans to divert waste from landfill, creating new jobs in the city, creating new business models and by that also creating proof of concept and then gives them more leverage to continue on. Okay, and how do you think then you figure out who are these people or who are these initiators? Is it just, you know, personal contacts, sorry, or is it we know who has the biggest number of employees and we say, okay, perhaps this company might be the first one to start with or you mentioned the university in the case of ASU. Is it just the tacit you know, knowledge and they start from it? Well, that's where the, that's why I also, I guess, where city has an advantage because we are not the ones to decide for them like what should be their circular economy approach. It's because the people who work in the city, and they're closer to the action, the daily action, it's easier for them to recognize, okay, we think that we need to go on one, two, three. And from our perspective, we're happy to support whatever they think is the right approach, but that's also where versus national government that is sort of very much detached from what's happening on a daily basis, which are the, of course, they know the sectors but who are the shakers and movers around. I think that's where cities have advantage on that. Another thing that we started mentioning here with the evaluation of the charity, one of our key feelings that cities should move forward is that once you have these shakers and innovators and front runners, how do we make sure that they kind of anchor themselves? And you know, it's not just an innovation for a couple of years, but we managed to, you know, upscale their ambitions and make them at a city level because right now, a lot of times, it's one company with one flow at one location and if they don't have enough funding, you know, they die off and the idea dies off. How can we make it more sustainable? I know the word is, it's not the one that you use, but how do we make them to stay here and to thrive? You know, how do we upscale the ambitions? So I guess that's where the city has a role in recognizing the most promising ventures in the city and either provide, make sure that they're successful first of all, of course, but then provide funding and infrastructure to scale or that's where a bigger business can come into play and say, well, this company has a very good idea and we think it could be relevant for us. We're going to pilot on a city level and if it's successful, we're going to scale up. Just one example from the C100 stories and it is not a city level, but it's a story that I think it's a fantastic story that I love using is that through the C100, we had an emerging innovator from Netherlands called Ecorm and they sort of C100, they met Heineken Mexico and as conversations happening when you know, when you put good people together on the table, they realized that they can substitute a lot of the packaging material from byproducts of the brewing process and they piloted this specific project in one brewery in Mexico and it has become so successful that now Heineken is scaling it worldwide. This company, Ecorm, would not have a problem anymore of surviving on that because it was good approach and it was economically viable and it got picked up. So I think, of course, it has any venture in order to be sustainable for long term has to be economically viable and if so by either the city giving the support or bigger business picking it up. And do you have this because that's a nice collaboration between big and small, right? But is this the way to go forward or is it the small initiatives that are going to rule or is it the big ones that are going to change the system? Do you think that there is one or the other or do they have to work together or how does it work? Who's going to change the economy? Is it the small players or the big players or something in between? Well, I think it has to be everyone. I think that, I mean, if you look at the natural world, in order to be resilient, you have to have biodiversity. You have elephants and you have flies, right? And if one of them has gone, then the other one will be gone as well. I think that this coexistence and equilibrium between big and small is will have to continue to exist probably even more than now. Yeah, so I think it's both. I'm asking this because there is always a kind of a different approach between a big one and a small one. So the small one is always, so it's very innovative and it's also very labor intensive, let's say. The big one is much more efficient and the economy of scale is what matters and what changes a lot of the economy, right? So it's always this back and forth and I'm not sure, you know, what types of circular economy do we have? It's probably not, there's not just one circular economy. I guess there's a labor intensive or a social economy or an innovative economy or an efficient economy. And I think these are kind of different pathways and I don't know if you've seen different pathways appear or do you see a more of a homogeneous story out there? Well, I think what we see is really a mix and I think that in order for the circular economy to scale, you definitely have to have the big business picking it up. But then in order for it to be scaled out on a practical way, okay, let's say you have a phone at Samsung. Let's say tomorrow Samsung decides that all their phones are circular, they are repairable, they have collection systems across the world. Samsung alone cannot do that. So what we're going to do is partner up with small scale repair shops, reverse logistics, maintenance companies, retailers perhaps that are going to be servicing your particular phone in Brussels. And there's going to be another set of supplies and vendors that are going to be doing the same in Copenhagen and so on. So you have of course the giants but they will not be able to serve all of their needs by themselves and that's where they need the diversity of the small businesses. I want to wrap it up perhaps with a more critical question and we kind of discussed it before is you know sustainable development is now dying off as an expression and because it was used and abused and I am always afraid that people are going to do the same thing with circular economy or they're going to use it in their own kind of manner for their own ambitions or their own interests do you how do we keep how do we make sure that this does not happen? How do we make sure it's not a new type of let's say greenwashing? How do we ensure that it's real change? How will you greenwash with the circular economy? No it's well greenwashing a lot the CSR for instance a lot of big companies said they were doing CSR but at the end of the day that they didn't change much in their behavior. They had a sustainability officer and they said we were now buying let's say reusable cups instead of plastic cups but at the end of the day their their entire business model didn't change. But I think that's exactly why CSR has failed is because for circular economy you cannot get a stamp or you know yeah yeah a report from GRI, PRR and there is no you can say that you're doing circular economy but if you're not doing circular economy it's you're only hurting yourself so you can say oh we recycle yeah and that's your circular economy but then you're not you're going to miss out on so many of the business development and revenue opportunities that that's okay you don't have to do it somebody else will. If there's money on the table it will always be picked up and if a company says that they're doing circular economy but they don't really embedded within their business model then they're just going to miss out and I think that's just the way you know evolutionary processes will assess out those who are actually doing it and committing to it and those who don't so hopefully you know the rig the material criticality and this volatility of price will make anyhow everyone circular that's that's how we hope that things will work out again I guess yeah and and regulation and the consumption and user patterns I mean look at what happens with business models that are making sense for consumers nobody is regulating the way to use Airbnb's and Uber's rather than regular taxes but this is the most viable option for consumers so they use it yeah and the same over time is going to happen with other circular economy business models not that Uber is a circular economy business model don't fault me on that it's an interesting one for sure and it's difficult to see how exactly these innovations have you know infiltrating to the regulatory state or the regulatory system because yeah well thank you very much thank you


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