he didn't get what he claimed he had got, but it was just there was no need for it. I spoke to my colleague who happens to be his first cousin Tom McSherry and Tom compared to him. But I felt I was being bullied and that I was looking for an apology and I didn't hear from for a few days. The timing is very interesting. He sent this message on the third of October. And the person who deals with complaints in headquarters was away on holidays that week. So the following week, I submitted it. And that was when his application came for readmittance to the party. I have never spoken to the party leadership. I know your own your own TV and Johnny Gaul had questioned whether it was a wise idea or not. That's Charlie McCann. And after McCann. Yeah. And yeah, he had he had questioned the wisdom of it. I spoke to Charlie McCann, though, I met him at Bloom last June, you know. So I certainly wasn't concocting anything with him. And I've never spoken to him on the phone. The T-shirt I've probably spoken to four times since I was elected in 2019. And none of them would be much more than maybe 30 seconds or a minute. This is this is kind of damaging to the to the party. This is kind of damaging to the party locally and now nationally. Could you not have let it slide? I'm not suggesting you should have, by the way. But yeah, I mean, you know, I consider that. And I did I did let it slide the first time. I did let it slide when it happened back in in June or July. The first time that and there's three years of messages in in that WhatsApp group since since we were elected in 2019. Neither Mark nor anybody else has used language like that at any stage in it. There was no need for it.  Some people say to me, oh, it's not bullying or whatever. But, you know, the person who's pushing somebody in the schoolyard doesn't think it's bullying. I sure I was only met them with them. I was only pushing. Really, but if you know, so the thrust of one of the messages, you fairly tried to eff me up there, pouring water all over it, praising Finnegell Minister Frank Feehan and the others. It would second your whole good man best of luck he added. But if he had a phrase that differently and said, why are you going on local radio? You know, we're struggling in the polls here. You're praising Finnegell. We really need to look at our approach and how we speak publicly. Would you, is it the tone of the text rather than the thrust of it that has let me feel you? Well, I think I think you've nailed it on the head there. It was the tone of it. And sometimes I can be guilty of my own tone can can can let me down at times.  I just said quite simply, the journalist from the radio, like you rang me this morning, the journalist from the radio station. Pulled me up and said, I see this question in about this yesterday at the regional health forum. Would you like to really come on and say a few words about it? And of course I did, you know, so it was there was nothing like that. And I had, I suppose I was a bit threatening myself because I said I was threatening that I was going to send the text messages to the media, which I didn't do because I felt they should be kept within the group. I didn't want to spread them out and damage in the man's name. So I when I got no response or no apology, I said I'll do it with through the internment process, which I was led to believe would be confidential, but someone somewhere along the line leaked it. I don't know who who who gave out those letters. What that message? Yeah, I take your point. Do you think, though, that the internal process that has to been gone through to resolve this issue and you know yourself what your constituents, the people that voted you, you know what they're facing on a day to day basis. You know the the absolute state of affairs that we're in at the moment here and how tough it is. Things are worsening. It's like a university hospital the same way at the Art Network and a university hospital. So these are your feelings and I fully respect them. But do you think it was it's all worth what has has come to pass, if you know what I mean? Like would you change anything? And obviously it was the power was in the power was in Deputy McSharry to change this all with an apology. I take that don't get me wrong. Do you think this was worth the what what has happened now? Look, it has probably cost me a week's work that I haven't been able to get ending out stone for the last week with constant phone calls and people inquiring and asking me what's going on and one thing and another. But in saying that, I think it is because the fact of the matter is somebody has to stand up and say, no, you can't do that. And if the person says, I'll do what I like or by their you know, he didn't say that. But he, you know, by his failure to apologize or to say he was sorry, you know, that was I can do what I like. And no, you can't, you know.  But definitely, McSharry does feel that this situation and this would mean that you're also being used as a pawn if his theory is true, that this is being used and manipulated by the party, probably the higher ups to try and work against him politically, you know, the ins and outs and the cotton frosts of Pollux ticks, do you have any sympathy for him in that position that maybe possibly that is, and if that scenario is true, I accept you also would be, you know, a pawn in this it's outside of your control. Have you sympathy for that point of view? Yeah, I have sympathy for the fact that maybe if he feels that way, I don't think you should feel that way. The timing was dictated by when he sent the text message. Yes, but you never waste a good crisis, Donald. You know that you never waste a good crisis. If people were waiting in the long grass for Mark McSharry, this came just at the perfect time. Call it a you could call it a happy coincidence. Well, I can't answer for the other people, but, you know, they've said they didn't. They said they got legal advice on how to deal with it. The party has a set of rules about how these things get dealt with. And, you know, it has a respect and dignity policy.  And, you know, it perhaps somebody was using a circuitry you're used every day of the week and people will say to me, oh, well, if you don't get this thing done for me, I'll get such and such a councillor to do it for me or whatever.  But I really don't think I don't think me or Martin would at the time to be planning anything major like that. I would imagine out of his schedule, my complaint probably got about two minutes or three minutes of his time. And he said, pass that on to legal. Pass it on to the guy in head office that looks after complaints. You deal with it. Follow the roadbook. And if you have any problems, come back to us. You know, it's not an individual. There's groups and camps and all that. But I take your point and I appreciate your time this morning, Donald, thanks. Thanks for it. Thanks very much. Take care of yourself. That's a councillor, Fina Fall councillor. Donald Gilroy there, 08 660 25000. That's your WhatsApp and text number cutting through the spin. The 9 till noon show on Highland Radio. Sleeves rolled up. Mayor won the chin. Your mates, side eye in the fancy barn, saving the crispy coating crumbs for last. Now that's how you know it's good. The McRisby from McDonald's with 100% chicken breast. Chicken for chicken lovers. Oh, that's mine. From 11 a.m. subject to availability. Armacola jewellers in Lettercanny are synonymous with fine jewellery, quality watches and gift ware. 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And our fully trained and committed staff will always meet your care needs with kindness, compassion and dignity. To get your personal home care assessment plan visit bluebirdcare.ie or call our care team today on 07491 29562 and bring care home. Okay, you're very welcome back to the 9 till noon show and it's a very welcome back to psychotherapist, author and coach Keely Tavernar. Good morning to you, Keely. Lovely to see you again. How are you keeping? How are things? And that's, I don't mean that in some sort of a rhetorical sense. Are you okay? Keely, can you hear me okay? Yeah, all is well. I'm very, I'm very fortunate. Obviously life has its ups and downs. Yay. I have you now. Sorry, Keely. There was a slight delay. The signal's poor there and it's picked up now. That's good to hear that you are, you are doing well because it's tough times at the moment. Doesn't it with everything that's going on? And I suppose it's very easy to focus on maybe everything that's happening outside the house and its impact on the internal workings of the house and maybe neglecting ourselves and each other. Absolutely. And I think we have to learn, you know, self-preservation, how best to look after ourselves. And, you know, it wasn't too long ago we were talking about the pandemic and how we would get through that. And here we are again. We're still here, we're still hanging in there. So have faith like and, you know, be mindful what you take in into your mind because if not, if you take in too much negativity it can, it really can bring you down. And I think there are lots of different ways that people are finding to help people. People are coming together more in ways, you know, communities thinking about, even food banks, I'm seeing that much more locally and all types of different people there. So things are shifting and there are things to be optimistic about. I guess it's what we pay attention to. And it's not that we just go around being happy clappy. We know it's tough times, but we have to be mindful what we energize, what we pay attention to because if not, it can create a snowball. And the reality is we can all have seasons where we're not doing so well and things are difficult. There's no two ways about it, but self-preservation is essential. The thing is, is though, what I think we're seeing more of now, Keely, and it's not a minority. I think it's a significant amount of people that might be in the minority, but not minority in the literal sense, is that people are seeking that security locked into negativity, you know. And everything has to have an angle or is negative or there's something going on or you're not seeing the full picture. And I just wonder sometimes for some people, and it's not a criticism either, if that's a survival mechanism because there's also a brotherhood or sisterhood within that way of thinking. I'm not one to label anyone. I'm not talking about any particular issues, but I just do see some people that used to be called a rabbit hole or whatever it is that seem locked in to not a space where I wonder where the light comes from. Well, absolutely. And let's be frank about that. The benefits of that is that you don't sometimes have to try. You don't have to set outside your comfort zone and you can settle into a life often of the mediocre and sadly that often and inauthentic and all of which are recipes for common mental health problems. So there's a massive benefit to that as well as when we look at social media, you have to be really mindful. I woke up in a tie this morning, but I was on an endless stroll last night trying to find outfits. It really can rob you of time and energy. And then the next day, I didn't start with the same amount of energy. So even before I went up to bed, I was like, I should leave my phone down. I kind of know I've got habits, leave the phone downstairs and I didn't. So when in the bathroom, I was still scrolling. When into bed, still scrolling. Woke up this morning tired, you know? So, like discipline is, but I understand also I've worked in prison. I can also understand the flip side where people opt out. They feel that they can't navigate society. They're never gonna be able to make it. They won't fit in. And so they opt for a life of impulse, just getting by and the fear grips people. And I kind of have respect for both. I have respect for the people who, because I have my hard days, you know? There's no clear path etched out for me in terms of my own career. Like I've had to make it up as I go along. And yeah, I've definitely dispaired and I respect why other people who've tried and feel that doors are closed. Absolutely, I understand why they give up, but the negativity, it creates a misery. It creates, you know, that pessimistic view. And ultimately it means you will need to find your life tribe to be around. And your own potential never gets to manifest. I think we do live in the West and there are still so many options open to us. I've got a lot of clients through the pandemic who've been made redundant. We're now becoming adult, going back into adult education. They're going to uni. They're drawing down, you know, the loans, the funds to the fund of their education, working part-time. And whilst it wasn't something they imagined two years ago, absolutely loving it. Yeah, indeed, lots of people have been negatively impacted by the pandemic. But as you say, lots of people have said, what have I been doing for the last 20 or 30 years or 10 years or whatever it might be? I corner says I split up four or five years ago from my wife and we have children. I haven't been the same since. Have you any advice, Keely, on how I find myself again? And maybe both parties are moving on at different paces and stuff, but this person still seems trapped in the breakup four or five years later. Yes, well, I guess it's whether there's also rumination about whether that relationship ended because of somebody else wanting to leave the relationship or where they dumped is basically what I'm indicating. Which often means there may be unresolved issues, but this can actually also attach into your own attachment styles, you know, your way of relating. If you take it deeply personal and you get stuck in the sadness and potentially poor me, you have to be careful of that. The secret really is to begin to start to work on yourself. That's what you start thinking about, what do I need to do to get outside of my comfort zone? What would I like to experience in my life before I die? That's where bucket lists are particularly helpful. Is it possible? Because, you know, sometimes people just will move on like and end up being a class as a bad dad, no involvement in the kids' life, won't answer the phone to their mother, all that kind of stuff. But that is, I'm not defending that behaviour, but that's the way they move on. Forget everything, cancel it. Maybe this guy is being a good dad, maybe even maybe emotional support for his former wife. So how do you fulfil those rules, if you wish to, but step out of the relationship in your head? I'm confused by that, I don't understand. I just wonder, sometimes to move on requires a bit of separation, okay, but they're sharing children. So maybe he's very active in the children's life and we hope he is, you know, lots of contact with them. Maybe that's what's making it harder for him to break away from the relationship, so what could he be doing to maintain that element of his life, but also look after himself, if that might, sorry, if I phrased it a bit better. That's the benefit of developing your own identity away from that relationship. So maybe you need to take up salsa classes or you might add a thing for photography. This is where adult education centres, I'm a massive fan of adult education centres. Sometimes you get short courses, depending on your income, sometimes they're funded, sometimes they're subsidised. And it can be a great way to begin to channel your energy into something different, because if your energy's focused on loss of what you don't have and a yearning, like this could also link into potentially abandonment issues that we've never really dealt with. So it's been- It's kind of basic, isn't it? It's really effective to what you're saying, but it's, it is slightly more complex, is, you know, do something to take your mind off it. Ish. You might have to contribute your energy. Because don't worry, when you finish a class at nine o'clock and even you're driving home, the force will come back to you and that's fine. But it's better than having, you know, if you do a course from five to nine, at least you've got three hours break and then you're going to do something you enjoy, you're highly likely to meet other people there who might have a similar interest. You might then go for a drink after the course. You're going to expand your network. You might then start to think about expanding, you know, your career opportunities in the long run might be something else. You're growing in all aspects of your life. A couple of questions carried over for the last time we spoke and a fresh one in today with different scenarios, but fundamentally the question is the same. People who want to get out of relationships but don't know how to do it without hurting the other person. So it's, there's three different scenarios but fundamentally that's the question.  Well, the reality is you have to choose. You either stay in a situation that makes you miserable which means you end up hurting yourself or actually what can often happen is you'll sabotage the relationships of consciously anyhow. You may emotionally withdraw and there might be a whole host of other behaviors. That mean the relationship's kind of just dead anyway. There's the quality, the grade of the relationship isn't there. The reality is if you're avoidant and you choose to not have difficult conversations this may well come back to not wanting to have difficult conversations and avoidant styles, avoidant attachment styles. Then what may happen like I said is you're going to opt out through self-sabotage. Unconsciously you're going to sabotage the relationship because fundamentally what you want is for somebody else to do that. So for example, if they cheated on me and they may left me then you wouldn't have to do it. And this while this isn't comfortable and I think it's an important life skill especially for people who are empathic and agreeable we can disproportionately worry about her in people's feelings. And as such we don't go there but the reality is in life this is actually a part of life. Uncomfortable situations, difficult conversations need to be had. Otherwise you're going to be in avoidance or smoothing things over and pretending everything's okay. And this has a way of slipping out. It will slip out. So you have to make a choice either you consciously do it or it unconsciously will slip up for your behavior through language and for your action. Early on should couples establish a space for conversation. A lot of the stuff we talk about Keeley comes back to you have to have the conversation, you have to say you have to say you feel but often the damage has been done I think by the time people get to that realization. Is there a established structure, it sounds so formal but space in a relationship whereby it's almost like once a week anything on your mind this is the safe space to discuss it as clinical as it might sound and it shouldn't be quite like that. Is there advantages to that? Is that something you recommend and how does one go about doing it? Absolutely I think it's about maturity emotional psychological maturity and understanding of how relationships can go sour. So for example, a lack of community. However, that's based on two people. If you're someone who wants to communicate and you have a partner who doesn't want to communicate with you, the reality is that is the situation you find yourself in. Been there recently myself. So you have choices to make which is that you can try to be new. You can try to bury those feelings and carry on regardlessly. Now some people are able to do that. Some people have a resilience for that but the relationship will potentially be mediocre and surface level. You may not get the depth of connection that you're yearning for or hopefully depending on it's a two-way tango. If you're with someone who's got attachment style of dismissive and avoidant, they're not going to want to have conversations with you. They in themselves would have to get to a point where they realise, actually, I don't want to keep going from relationship to relationship. I need to work on myself. But if they don't have that psychological maturity and they're going to shut down or for example at like, they don't know what you're talking about and it's just you overthink things then the reality is that is the situation you find yourself. I think it would be lovely if we all had a conversation about, you know, like a to do's and don'ts in a relationship but often the reality is things don't work out like that. We can often fall into relationships without necessarily always having the conversation upfront which is a benefit of taking things slowly and having conversations. But it's very difficult if the other person doesn't want to conversely. Yeah, or maybe schedule a joint chat with you and the great thing about modern technology now is you don't have to be in Keely's office. Keely Tavarnas, a psychotherapist, author and coach and how can people get more information on your services? Keely. Just find me, you can find me at keyforchange.com. That's F-O-R and number four. Have a lovely day. Great to see you again, Keely. 08 660 25000. What's up some texts to that number? Watch the show live now on YouTube, Facebook and at highlandradio.com. There's always a buzz in Dublin but there's something extra special about Dublin at wintertime. Experience a whole lot of live entertainment this November. From buskers and bands to theater and musicals, enjoy comedy gigs, concerts and even music trails. 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Sunday, the 8th of January, Mount Erigl Hotel, Lettacanny, tickets on sale from Hotel Reception and ticket mastered on IE. Follow us on Facebook, Joe Gallagher Entertainment. Now, Father Sean Sheehy recently described transgenderism as lunacy and spoke about the sinfulness of sex between two men or two women and said it was horrible that HSC was given free condoms to teenagers, adding it promotes promiscuity. Father Sheehy joins us on the programme.  Good morning to you. I mean, I suppose you've seen the fallout from this. Some have saying you've doubled down on your views. On reflection, would you change anything that you said? No, nothing. Why, why are you?  No, no, no, no. No, no, actually, this is all based in the scriptures for the Sunday, which I always base my homilies on. Do you think the Catholic Church is being hypocritical then and it's, from some quarters, it's criticism of you for really just saying it's teachings? Yeah, I'm not going to judge a person as hypocritical. What I am going to say is that they're not, they don't really know the scriptures and they certainly don't know the teaching of the church. And if they do know, they certainly don't abide by it if they're condemning what I said. So there are those within the church then that need to check themselves? Is that what you're saying? Yeah, exactly. Exactly, we all need to check ourselves. Every one of us. And I mean, constantly. And I mean, do you extend your views to lots of other parts of the teachings? Like what's your views on single parents, for example, cohab, couples that live together but aren't married? Well, of course, it's the same thing.  That's the same fornication. It doesn't feel very forgiving or spiritual to me though, Father. Well, the fact is, you know, to say that it's not a sin, then, is actually to encourage people to keep doing that. Well, if it's a sin, then it's contrary to the law of God. And if it's contrary to the law of God, then those people are not living in accord with the teaching of Jesus or the teaching of his church, which is necessary for salvation. Do you think that the Catholic Church to ensure its survival then maybe needs to get a bit more hard line to stick to its guns to put it like that? Well, it's not so much hard line as it is preaching the truth. I mean, I remember, you know, having taught ethics for a number of years in the university, where a student asked me one day a question and he said, look, I don't want your opinion. I want to know exactly what the church teaches about particular philosophy. And I said, I'm glad you asked that, I said, because my opinion will die with me. But the teaching of the church will go on until the end of time. And so people have a run to know exactly what the church teaches, then it's up to them to embrace it or to reject it. But at least they know now what they are embracing and what they are rejecting. Are practicing homosexuals welcome at your masses? Practicing, everybody is welcome at the masses, but if they really want to be able to receive Jesus Christ, they need to repent and seek forgiveness. Because otherwise, as St. Paul says, they're eating the body of Jesus and drinking his blood to their destruction if they don't repent of their sin.  No, I was not playing to anybody. No, I was just simply putting in the gospel. Yeah, but if you'd just let me finish the question with respect, Father, because it's... No, no, that's fine. I appreciate your time.  But if you had in the same sermon talked of, you know, people who have been divorced or people who are living in sin and inverted commas or those who had sex outside marriage, dare I even say those who masturbate? You wouldn't have probably had the standing ovation that you received because you would have been catching everyone, perhaps arguably, you'd have been catching everyone in the conversation. No, no, no, no. See, when I mentioned those, I'm talking about those that were enshrined in legislation. And those are the ones actually that are promoted and sadly, they're affecting our children, they're affecting our teenagers and so on. So I suddenly would not eliminate, I mean, they're all kinds of sins. I mean, let's face it. And the fact is, I also said to the people, you know, based on Jesus' law of love, who among us, for example, can love God with all our heart? We don't. And that's what, and if we don't do that, then we are sinners, but we're not sinners without hope because Jesus offers us forgiveness, but we are not going to seek forgiveness unless we recognize our sin and then repent of it and then seek forgiveness. OK. Right. And what about the reaction to this? Do you feel that you're speaking for maybe more people than those listening might imagine that can't express these views publicly, but you, at your stage of your career, feel that you comfortably can? Do you think that you're advocating on behalf of more widely held views out there? I mean, look, I certainly haven't spent most of my life in America, you know, was quite used to opposition, also quite used to the people expecting to hear the word of God, you know, in season and out of season, convenient or inconvenient. That was the expectation because basically they had a right to that. People have a right to know what God calls of them so they can intelligently and freely respond to it. And as Jesus himself said, you know, you will be judged according to your conduct and our conduct flows from our beliefs. And so people need to know then what God asks us to do by the same token, what he asked us not to do because it's sinful. All right. Father Sean, he thanks for your time this morning. I appreciate it. Thank you very much. God bless. Bye bye. 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Celebrating the 25th anniversary of the first Joe Dolan Bondorn Music Festival, a spectacular Christmas party night at the Allianham Arms Hotel on Friday, December the 16th, with the sensational Joe Dolan Show Remembering Joe, featuring five vocalists with the Dolan family and the original Joe Dolan band. Cabaret, dinner and accommodation if required. Now booking at the Allianham Arms are online at showtours.ie. Revive the 90s in Bondorn on December the 16th at the Allianham. OK, now just some comments to wrap things up.  He was only preaching the teaching of the Catholic Church and the bishop and preached to a condemning him. A totally wrong, the word hypocrite keeps swirling in my head. Do you see it? I'd like to say it's in no way to... That is the reality. Good morning, Greg. I have no sympathy for Mark McSharry. This is a man on your show said he would vote against the government and voted with them. Gaslighting the public. Not very fond of him there. OK, that's your point of view. We appreciate it. A couple of requests that I didn't get to earlier on because we were so busy. Hoping you could play a birthday request for my uncle Cecil Laird from Montartini, whose birthday is today. Any song or hit the diff? Well, you know what? I'm sure hit the diff will be on later. That comes in from his sensible nephew Levi Laird in Scotland. OK, that's where we have to leave it on the show today. Thank you for listening. Researcher and producer Caroline Orr. Thanks for her help as well. We're back tomorrow morning at 9 o'clock. John Breslin is just on his way into studio. But first, let's get a news update and say good afternoon now to Donald Kavanaugh. Thanks very much indeed. Greg, the Finifall councillor at the centre of a bullying row says Mark McSharry's comments in the WhatsApp group were very hurtful and should have been conveyed to him directly. Deputy McSharry.


There are four factors, four factors that affect gas exchange in the body, and we are going to list all of those out. They will help us when analyzing various clinical scenarios. The first factor that affects gas exchange in the body is the most obvious, and it's obvious because, dude, it's what we've been talking about like this whole time. Partial pressure differences affect gas exchange. If you do not have a partial pressure difference, or if you have like a tiny partial pressure difference, you're not going to get very efficient gas exchange. So that's one factor that's going to affect the rate and the efficiency at which gas exchange takes place. And we're talking about both external respiration and internal respiration. The other factor, no, another factor that affects this whole thing is the distance between alveoli and the capillary. That would be this distance right here. Now, in conditions such as pulmonary lung, adema swelling, and you should be able to process, because of our lecture on capillary exchange, you should be able to process like what are some factors that might lead to pulmonary adema. We might end up with extra fluid in this space between the alveoli and the capillary. The larger the space, if for example, you know, the alveoli was up here and the capillary was down here, that's the larger space, that's more distance that the gases are going to have to diffuse across, and that is going to affect the efficiency of gas exchange. That's super intuitive. Related to that, or relevant because of that, another factor that affects gas exchange is the solubility of the gas. And this is relevant, and I think we already talked about this. Actually, I don't know if I did talk about this or not. Carbon dioxide is way more soluble in water than oxygen. And that's kind of, you know, you look at all of our concerns about carbon dioxide in the air, carbon dioxide diffusing into the oceans and making the oceans more acidic.  If you have carbon dioxide, if you left a cup of water out in the air, that water is eventually going to become acidic because the carbon dioxide is going to dissolve into the water and become carbonic acid in the system. Oxygen, on the other hand, is much less soluble in water. So what happens is sometimes when you have a situation like pulmonary edema, you might end up with normal carbon dioxide levels in your blood because carbon dioxide can get out no matter what the distance is because it's so soluble, whereas oxygen might have abnormal or low levels of oxygen in the blood because there wasn't enough time for oxygen to diffuse effectively across that really big distance. So that's something to consider when evaluating blood numbers, data. What's that called when you get blood data from your patient? Somebody out there knows the answer and I'm sure you will tell me. The last condition that is going to affect gas exchange is surface area of the alveoli. And I'm telling you this right now because I want you to stop smoking yesterday.  You also have alveolar macrophages that go around and eat up all the crud and try to keep your lungs clean.  Any elastase breaks down your alveoli. Number one, it breaks down the elastic fibers surrounding the alveoli, which makes it hard to exhale. Number two, it can literally break apart the walls of the alveoli. So where you might have used to have, you might have had 30 little alveoli in a bundle. If you break down the walls between all of them, you might end up with one big bubble with just an outer edge. Does that make sense? And the surface area of one big bubble is going to be much lower than the surface area of a whole bunch of bubbles. This is what happens to you if you get emphysema from smoking.  So number one, you feel exhausted and you can't get enough oxygen to meet your energy needs, but then your little macrophages have been busting a move, trying to get rid of all the poison you put in there and breaking down your elastic fibers in the process so you can't exhale.  They actually have to do the pushing of the air out using their muscles and their thoracic cavity. Dude, just stop smoking, seriously, it's time. Just stop smoking and I will stop eating as much ice cream. Okay, is it a deal? I mean, if you're in, all right, let's talk about oxygen. Specifically, you stopped smoking, thank you very much, so now your alveoli are going to be stoked and now that they're happy, you'll figure out how oxygen gets carried through the body. Thanks for stopping smoking.


So we have the Vodafone booth right here and who are you? My name is Kate Arthlis-Gray, I'm head of communications at a German space start-up called PT Scientist and we're running Mission to the Moon. So it's called MissionToTheMoon.com with dashes in between, right? We have dashes in between. So MissionToTheMoon.com. If you just google MissionToTheMoon or if you go to PT Scientist.com you'll find all of the information there. And you are, what's going on here? Are you actually going to the moon? Let's start at the beginning. So yes, this is going to happen. This is a real Mission to the Moon. Is it real stuff? What you see on the left here is our real size. So this is a one-to-one engineering model, structural engineering model of our Alina spacecraft. Okay. And this is what we're going to send to the moon with two Audi Luna Quattro rovers inside. So rovers? Yes. So one of the things that we want to do with this mission is actually we want to return to the Apollo 17 landing sites and get the first high-quality images of the original lunar roving vehicle. Really? We're going to land there. It's been, we're going to do that very carefully. That's awesome.  So Gene Cernan who sadly passed away now is one of the Apollo 17 moonwalkers and actually on his way to the moon he did say that he could confirm the moon was round. But apparently they still don't believe him. The flat movers? Yeah. But I'm not sure about that. Okay. Anyway, so this is our spacecraft and we are partnering. We have two key technology partners in Audi who are helping us with the rovers and Vodafone who are helping us with the communications on the lunar surface. Is it complicated? Is it not going to be easy? Space is hard. Space is always hard. Even using the moon we can see it from here. We can see it but I mean... It's not here to communicate to it. Have you ever tried walking there? No. So one of the things we have to do is that our rovers are quite small and they're going to be collecting an awful lot of data. This is size one to one. It's just a mock-up of the rover. And actually I have here one of the wheels that we'll be using. What's special about this? Does it understand the way to do the movement of the wheel? This is, actually the really nice thing about this is that it's 3D printed from aluminium. And the reason that we've done that is that it's incredibly light and with a 3D printing process you can... I don't know if you can see inside here but all of these ridges are actually hollow so we're saving a lot of weight. So actually you are actually going to 3D print the moon rover? About 80% of the structure of the lunar rover is 3D printed from aluminium. Yeah, for the real deal. And that's one of the things we're working with Audi on. But when this rover here in the front you can see these kind of size in the front. They actually have cameras. And then we're taking HD video from the lunar surface. HD or 4K or no? HD, brother HD. I'm not sure. It would be great to have some 4K footage from the moon. That would be great to have for the moon. Well, if we're trying to get the proper... How soon is it going to launch? So we're hoping to launch at the end of next year. That soon? Hopefully. So you've been working on this for a while? We've been working on this for about 10 years now. Because you just said start-up. When they first began, it wasn't really so much of a company. They were called originally the part-time scientists. And they were inspired by the Google Lunar X Prize. So this Google-sponsored X Prize was to land a rover on the moon, drive 500 meters, and then send HD video back. But it's there. Well, we have now created it. But why did they give you the $20 million? Because it's not on the moon yet. Because we actually have extended our mission to do more than just... If you're going all the way to the moon, don't just like drive 500 meters and stop. So we've actually included scientific payloads on our mission. We have a payload rack on the side. So on the other side of Alina. So what's going to be there? So over here as well. It's your choice really. If you would like to send some payload with us, you can do that. So this is a... I'll give the cells some space. Yeah. These are CubeSat... Sorry, it's a CubeSat size box. So it's a 10 centimeter cube. This is a very standard format now in satellites. And one of the things that has made space a little bit more accessible is these very small satellites, nano-satellites. So even like students at university are able to design their own satellites. Much cheaper than a huge, you know, billion-plus kind of thing. But all this lovely data that we're collecting with our lunar rover, it's very expensive to send that data when it's expensive, I mean, in terms of power budget. Like sending all of the data back down to Earth from the rover, it needs a lot of power. And our small little rover doesn't have that power. So we're going to work with Vodafone to create the first... Base station. The first 4G LTE base station on the moon. Nice. And what that allows us to do then is to take the data from the rover, all this HD video, all this scientific data that we're collecting, we can take it from the rover, send it back to our base station, Alina, which is our lander, and Alina, which is not moving anywhere, has much larger solar panels, much more power, and can send all of that data back down to Earth on Earth. So what's the range of the 4G LTE in the moon? Well, that's... I'm afraid you think the rover's going to go. We actually have a very interesting conference, first conference is coming up tomorrow, so I can't tell you too much more. I'm just tomorrow right now. Okay, so how about this? Is this part of your project right here? Also, you're going to have a... that's up for the moon, right? That's not a moon. I just do the moon. So... Come on, the moon is not enough. Of course, this is awesome. What are we looking at in here? So these are propellant tanks. So this is our whole lander, landing legs, propellant tanks, payload, racks, solar panels, and of course the...  I leave that bit to the rocket scientists. The rocket scientists have calculated everything? Yep. All right. So next year, end of next year, are you going to launch on a SpaceX? Yeah, so we decided that having built our own lander and built our rovers, we didn't need to go ahead and build our own rocket, because it's, you know... This is rocket science. This is hard stuff. And why, brother, when there are already companies out there, they actually have a business in selling launches. So for example, a SpaceX. So these guys can help you buy a launch, right? So we're... So we're going to be probably on a SpaceX Falcon 9 rocket. And what that will do is it will take our spacecraft up into Earth orbit. And from Earth orbit, Alina under its own propulsion will take itself into lunar orbit before landing softly on the moon and releasing off to another rovers. Soft landing on the moon? Yep. So it says under here some of the stuff it says, bring back Apollo. Apollo? That's one of your slogans, right? Well, we're returning to Apollo. Return to Apollo. So yeah, the last time that humans were on the moon was back in 1972. And we actually want to land in the same kind of area that they landed so that we can get the first, as I said, the first high-definition pictures of the lunar-roving vehicle. It's been sitting on the moon for 45 years and we just don't know what status it is. Is it still in one piece? Is it all collapsed? They were covered in dust. We want to find out the information. There's no moon with... But there is, in fact, one of the experiments that we might be taking up is to look at potentially how there could be lunar dust kind of swirling around depending on the electrostatic charge on either side of the terminator. So there's the line between day and night. So what's the success? For this one, how long does it need to last for it to be success? If we land on the moon, I mean that's the success. That is something that nobody has...  We're not NASA, we're not ESA. This is a fully private mission. So that would be a success. So the PT Scientist HQ is actually in Berlin and that's where we have our lunar test bed, our facilities, that's where our offices are. That's where we're going to have our mission control for the mission. Do you have the support from the guys? No, as I said, this is a private... This is primarily a private planet initiative. We are of course open to working with other space agencies if they would like to send some payload with us. That's something that we look to do. Of course, in future, we hope to be the infrastructure provider for the moon. So yeah, for transport and also for communications. If we can put LTE on the moon, that means that future missions, they don't need to recreate the wheel, they don't need to recreate their own communication structure. They could actually just tap in and use LTE. How about the 2022 holiday vacation destination potentially for you? I would love that. I would very much love that. I would love that. At the moment, we're just a fully robotic mission. Of course, I would love to be the first one on the moon. I think that's probably going to be a Chinese lady, but we'll see. I think if you successfully land this one and the rover march, you have priority on the lunar march, the rest of the potential passengers. Unless he decides that he wants to do it first. He's really interested in Mars. Of course, the moon too. So because the Mars rovers, they were supposed to just work for like, I think it was something like three months. Now it's been working for ten years. They got really lucky with the wind on Mars, sweeping all the dust off the solar panels again. So it could happen. That was unlikely to happen on our mission, actually. So the length of our mission, for this initial mission, we're not designing it to survive the lunar night. And when the lunar night is, you know, it's almost a four night, and it goes down to like minus 173 centigrade. Is it too hard to design for that? The problem with that is that all your electronics, you have to design your electronics so that they can withstand that really low temperature, two weeks at that low temperature before they... I mean, there is a chance it could all work. Maybe it will come back to life after the lunar night, but that's not something we're designing for, right? How long is the lunar day? Again, it's about two weeks. So you're designing for two weeks at least? So we will probably land like one or two Earth days into the lunar day to ensure that we get the right amount of, you know, the right angle of sunshine for our sunlight on our solar panels. And we reckon we'll probably have a mission time, you know, on-surface mission time of about 10 to 11 days. And who are you selecting the exclusive TV coverage to?  Well, there's a camera out there. So that's the broadcasting. That's the camera right there. Is there some cameras up here too? Not currently, because this is just, like I said, a structural model. So this is just a test structure of the vehicle. If this works out, it's going to be huge. Well, this is one of the things that we really want to do. So the founder of the company is quite young. So he, like me, wasn't around to watch, you know, the Saturn 5 launch and to watch the lunar landings. And what we would like to do is kind of recreate that excitement about the moon for a general, like, our generation. You know, we want to create an Apollo moment so this is possible. You can do this now. If it works, your video is going to be more popular than Kaki's style. That's like a given. It's going to be so huge. I would hope so. So you have to think of what music to put into the video or something. Trust me, we're thinking. Just make it creative. Let people do whatever they want for your footage, right? We have to find ways to fund our mission.  The Falcon 9 or Falcon Heavy? You don't need a Falcon Heavy? No, we don't even need a whole Falcon 9. It's much lighter.


So this guy started yeah Carlos Santana. You can follow me on Twitter Paul from IBM both from IBM You can't follow me on Twitter because I'm not on it Let's get started without talking about cost start. So just an introduction We saw that some people were new to K native so to give an introduction of what is K native serving? It simplifies the deployment like mentioned before of Kubernetes abstractions It has traffic splitting which we saw a great demo by a boomer how they use traffic splitting and then rollouts and One of the my favorite features of is auto auto TLS HTTPS. So you would define your service and K native serving takes care of defining the route and the traffic aspect of it and the configuration As always in Kubernetes CRDs you can compose them Separate things routed and configuration, but we suggest to use service or service We have seen many talks about that is a scaling to CEDO But I think the most difficult problem from scaling to CEDO is scaling back to one like I always like to joke next slide So just for reminders and I get this question A lot is people ask us like how do we how K native skills to CEDO? And I usually kind of like I said well an interesting part is how it scales to one It's the interesting thing not a skill to CEDO and some people actually think we have joke about this that this There's some magic and sprinkles in the cluster that makes this happen, but actually there's engineering involved right and if people want to get You know contributions and learn I know a lot of people want to learn how it works This is a good opportunity to get involved and actually help with coding testing and Involving serving so the working group is always looking for contributions So one simple example is like the life of the query wanting to make this a little bit simpler for people to use But when you start with a Kubernetes cluster, you usually have a request coming in into an ingress in our case will be something like contour courier Istio you don't have to use Istio We have a service It's a type of service, but it represents the same abstraction, but the key aspect is there's no pods So there's a deployment out there for every revision, but there's zero pods So how do we get that request to a pod that doesn't exist usually that's that's the key question And the answer to that is the activator and I love the names that we give these two guys activator all scaler they sound like Transformers, so I'm a fan of transformers So we have the activator and activator is in charge in there of like if there's no pod to receive this request I'm going to go into the middle there So the end points get configured to be able to capture that request and take the the aspect But somebody needs to get one pod up. So this is Kubernetes. We're managing Kubernetes So that's what the aspects of Kubernetes native is current K native So the activator needs to tell like I need the first pod. So how does that happen? So that happens through The activator communicating with the autoscaler and the autoscaler like normal Kubernetes was said that the replica said to one and This is where things start slowing down telling Kubernetes Give me one pod and eventually a pod would exist and when the pod comes up We have to bring up minimum two Containers if you see needs to we mesh with three But in our simple example will be a the Q proxy which is another component of K native This is the explanation of how to scale to one and then our application So that our application is the one that that boots up and and comes up the Q processor Usually spits up very fast. It's a very simple Low low container But the applications defines how long your pot will come up and be ready and then the Q proxy start like pinging the app Are you ready to see if we can receive that once it does that? The activator says okay I can send start sending requests to the Q proxy and the Q proxy is there to make sure the concurrency For the autoscaler to be scraping so the autoscaler now start getting the metrics from that Q proxy and Decides when is enough traffic coming in that you need two replicas and then the next one comes up You get you get the next deployment you hit your cost start depending how warm a type of levels of heat do you have? And then the activator sends that to the Q proxy and eventually it gets to a stable state stable state that we The system can get to it that then the activator is not in the critical path and it goes there So this is kind of like one of the latest examples and somebody was saying there needs to be a way to like We need more type of these diagrams to explain to newcomers how things work inside So they get used to in terms of using and an operating it in terms of a operators So that's that's the service once it gets into a stable state And there's enough are you said? capacity To sustain the load then the captivator doesn't have to be in the middle, but Activator is a primary thing there. So leave it there. What happens there when we need that first spot So just again talking in terms of timing What are the things that happens to happen between when the request is received a when the request is processed across kind of This but just to kind of recap here. Let me speak in the microphone The request comes in it gets routed to the activator the activator triggers the autoscaler the autoscaler updates the replica count The pod is created and ready the activator knows the pod is ready the activator forwards the request to qproxy qproxy forwards it to The app the app responds to the request and the request is processed So this is just kind of the list of the things that have to happen if we were to represent this more and kind of a you know How long each one of them takes you would see that the pod being created and ready is what takes the longest amount of time Now why is that that's because there's a whole lot of things that are happening there We have to create the container we have to perhaps pull the image if it's not already cash on the node We have to wait for the containers to start. We have to wait for all the probes to run There's a lot of things that are happening there and there's a lot of kind of different scenarios Carlos mentioned the levels of heat that we're pulling from a presentation that Matt had made previously We'll call them different kinds of latency types And what this means is it's really just referring to the different types of scenarios on a particular node So there's kind of two kind of main variables here one is the container running on that node Yes, or no to has that image been cashed on that node already? Yes, or no, and so we'll call a cold start is when that node does not have the container Cashed on it and or the image cashed on it and the container is not running. That's the cold start That's what takes the longest amount of time to happen Next to be what we call a warm disc. That's when the image has already been cashed on said node But the containers not actual actively running A warm memory scenario, that's when the containers been paused so the containers up, but it's been paused It's not kind of actively serving requested as it's being paused by the container runtime or something like that And then finally what we call the warm CPU scenario where that container is actively running and can serve requests kind of immediately So thanks to Matt for kind of those categories there You know that's kind of the problem space that we find ourselves in now The question is how can we make things faster? So back to Carlos. Yep. Thank you So what what this you can use in user land and we get a lot of questions in in slack About cold starts and one of them is image pools so one aspect of this in the general general terms for the talk is Looking at how to speed the cold starts, but also how to avoid cold starts If they can path if they can happen infrequently then you are in a better better luck with that So image pools, there's a lot of talks and a lot of conventions actually a lot of tools a lot of innovation in the CNI space most of the OCI space and the cloud native space around How do we pull the bits that I need? It's like a like a star GZ Always don't use always pull and always pulls is also something that some users cannot avoid because You're working maybe in a multi-tenant environment So you you don't want another pod from another user or bad actor to like use your image that you catch So you always as always pull, but if you can avoid that always like don't use latest tag And catch the image on the notes. That's kind of like the the best one So another one is like getting the image closer. So I'll talk if on a few of them The other one is in it optimization. It's like what what can you do in your? Code or your framework or the type of initialization that you're doing right? What are the things that you're loading at boot time that you can maybe do later? or maybe you don't maybe the type based on the type of request you never actually there's no co-path in there and The last one also is hidden costs Some people are using certain components or frameworks or something from a cloud provider that they don't know that is affecting their co-star So I'll give two examples of that around is still And and see and I and then I like I said The other strategy is try to avoid the the co-star right instead of like They they are costly so see if you can modify maybe the concurrency and all the aspects to just avoid them So we'll touch on some of them and this is like a Lot of users need kind of guidance and what are things are available. So one is always Forcing the image the image pool at deployment time. This is something that you can do On your own like for example, you can deploy with the CLI the candidate service and then behind the scenes Try to deploy something that will go to certain nodes Like maybe your your services run in certain nodes from your cluster So you create a deployment a demon set that just pulls the image, but it doesn't do anything There's some all also like you can do things like deploy the service But never make it run the first pod There's a flag and an annotation for that and also we have in K native a CRD or CR gets created per revision and he has all the information from I guess the parent the owner that Created that revision and he has the URL that the controller does the tag resolution So we always like try to match the tag to the chasm. So we give you have the the long Image tag and you can write it your own controller or or That that knows what are the images that need to be downloaded and So there's some community repose to have an implementation of that But it could be as a simple as watching this resource that it comes up that can it if creates for someone to create to implement it so that's one ways of and and Again, even if you have an image registry that is located in the same Availability zone or VPC or from the provider It would not it would not solve all your issues just by downloading the image Sometimes the image is very small and that's not where the most of the time is spent and pause going to talk about Where is that spent? Some languages I think somebody asked earlier about Choosing a language. I understand that some companies or some projects They don't have a choice to select the language But certain functions like Marisa was explaining some certain functions are maybe done in async way And they can choose a language and remember other functions can be written in other language So you can have a polyglot of languages But be careful because some languages like I show here like for like a straight Java We'll take a long time But if you use something like grow VM and compile that with Quarkus or just grow VM You can you have a faster speedup and this is kind of like comparing the the boot time for different languages So that that's part of the innate optimization there And then another one that people I guess is is is for some of us that we've been involved of trying to solve this issue For everyone in the best way possible Some users are fine to set this some knobs that we have but the thing is sometimes they're not aware that this knob exists So for example on the last talk that we're talking about setting the mean scale, right? Minimum set of replicas and some users are okay at this time by paying that that penalty of having a pod Running 24-7, but it'll be running 24-7. You can't even not shut it down The other way that you can have is another knob is scaled down delay, which is Once the Q proxy reports that there's no more Request coming in that is okay to scale to zero it tells the system Hey wait this amount of time maybe you wait ten minutes instead of being the default the default is very aggressive Wait this amount of time before you shut down real terminate the pod and that could be a setting that can avoid the the Coasters that we could say avoid that Have less frequency of costars and the last one it could be like maybe you want Not every pod to be like left longer But maybe the last part of the revision of the deployment leave it Alive a longer amount of time because there might be a request coming in likely Coming in and that that avoids a costar. So it's about measuring this knob So always measure and run a load test that looks like there your your load if it bursty and Measure what you change but there's knobs that are available and sometimes we don't mention it because we want to get to that Nirvana place that co-stars are like You know physics is zero right and that's not possible and And this one is one that I think For people using is still not everyone uses is still but it is still be careful when you add is still and you have it On top of that use it in the steel Mesh that you're adding another container that needs to boot up that needs to do things in your IP tables. That's the unique container Plus you have your east to side card and plus the two Containers so everything needs to come up and be ready for that request to go and get processed So that will hit your costar and you just have to measure how long That will be for you and actually we have a A tool called care Cape Earth that can help you nurture that the other one that I Recently found out about doing the end user interviews, which by the way, I'm still looking for end users grab me to schedule an interview is type of CNI's cloud providers or some cloud providers would assign you like a Elastic IP or real IP And that would take more time to talk to the cloud provider to get to the pool to get the an IP assigned to a Pod and this is some sometimes a you this came from a user that was moving from burn metal on premises to on cloud And they haven't modernized all aspects of their security model So they need that pot to have a certain IP address So that's disgusting them the costar actually it's a it's an end user that is in production Which I was super happy to hear about that But it's something that it came up in the conversation that is it's affecting them in costar So watch out for those type of things of what are the things that container D or Cubelet are doing with a cloud provider that might hit your costar So sometimes it's in your hands and sometimes it's maybe modernizing the way you deploy these worker nodes And then I'll let it to Paul to see what we're doing with upstream So Carlos went over a number of ways that you know you can do things right now to kind of improve your container start time I want to talk about some things that you will be able to do very soon That we're working on both upstream and in Knative to make things faster So an upstream we've been starting to work with the Kubernetes folks to see you know What are ways that we can get containers to run faster? So Marcus went to signal gave a presentation on what kind of Arcade native use cases are and we've been working with them to Try to get some of these things upstreamed and find those things out We work with Mike Brown who's a container demaintainer who's got a number of great ideas that we're making use of so I mentioned a couple of them here Just so that we're aware that these things are coming You know we talked about the the issue of if you have to always pull your images You never want to use the latest tag because that takes time to have to pull an image But it might be a security requirement if you don't want tenets to be you know using that cached image on Your thing so there's this cap out there for ensure secrets pulled image that will basically allow you to not have to use the latest tag oops Not use the latest tag but still be able to so he can kind of catch your image But it'll still do the security authentication check in your image That's gonna help speed up image pools not having to use the latest tag there There's a number of performance improvements that are happening in the CNI layer There's PRs out there that have reduced you know when you're loading your CNI plug-ins not loading them in Parallels opposed to in sequence which speeds up the runtime yourself Disabling the dad which has dropped about a second off of the runtime Which are very good and then in terms of cubelet performance You know one of the things we do in Knative is we run probes to make sure things are up probes run at a second interval So if you know it's not ready when the probe it's first time you got to wait another second for that thing to Run again, we've got a cap out there now To run probes on a sub second interval so we can respond even faster to things like that And we presented the sig node I think two weeks ago some of the red hat folks Derek and others Mentioned that they were working on us a similar cap on the evented plague Which is gonna use cubelet based on events as opposed to kind of the the polling methods that should speed things up as well It shows them things upstream in Knative itself work against performance enhancements as well We're working on more probe support adding startup probes Which hopefully make things a little faster and then two things that I kind of want to demo for you now The container freezer which is something that Jules had poced a while back But we've got it in an alpha in the sandbox and then k perf which is a performance benchmarking tool that we have So the container freezer just this is you know, this is similar picture We saw before this is kind of how Knative works We've got the activator the autoscaler you've got a pod that's running what the container freezer does is it runs a separate Freeze demon and what that demon does is it freezes? The user pod so when a request comes in still follows the same Process gets the cube proxy the cube proxy calls out to the to the demon sends it an unfreeze request We then in the container runtime send, you know a resume request in container D. It's resume I think we've got there's a PR out there for cryo As well that unfreezes a container allows it to run Then the request goes to the application as normally nice. My this here is you can leave your pod running And it's not, you know actively running you pause it in between requests when the request is finished You know the cube proc sends a request back out freeze the pod pod gets frozen So that's kind of out there in an alpha right now And people could use Right one of the nice things about this is because you're this is different between kind of that with the you know the the figure we call the warm memory warm container Responding to a pause or a pause pod versus not knocks. I can't add in my head, but two seconds ish Off the time so it definitely speeds up the the the response to a request when using said thing right and Then kind of finally k-perf. It's our performance benchmarking Oh, well, oops, I did want to kind of just kind of demo kind of what the container freezer looked like really quickly bear with me One second, so I'm just gonna kind of set this up really quickly just to kind of show kind of how this thing works So basically just kind of a basic service here called sleep talk or the sleep talker just kind of ticks on a thing So I'm just kind of show this works really quick. So this is just running the log from said pod You can't see anything. I'm happening right now when I call on the So you're gonna see it's ticking and you can't really read what that thing is as it's tiny But basically what happens is when the container gets its request the pod runs you see it in the logs We'll show that one more time real quick Let's tick tick tick then when the screen stops Things up such as kind of a live demo of it actually pausing a container as it runs K-perf, which is our performance benchmarking tool You just kind of see here.  That's when the pod is scheduled the Orange lines when the containers ready so you can see kind of the amount of time that it takes and you can see the different Time to that it takes for us the queue proxies are at the user container to start So yeah, and that we can run that in the CI I made her did some good work adding that Into the CI so we can test kind of how each PR that we add Improves a performance or doesn't improve the performance as the case may be I think that covers it K-perf generates that that's HTML graph is generated by the tool So it's not Something that you have to do anything about it is the tool generates that HTML also does the does the load load load testing and It's a repo that is looking for contributors So PRs are welcome So we have yeah, that's one of the one of the repos that if you're new to to the community And it's something that that you want to get started. It's a good one to Small one and scope that you can help and and get started. So with that I'm glad that we cut the slides in half. I thought I'm going to go over Questions I think that's it That's it Does anyone have okay? Hey, hello So just wanted to understand exactly like what does happen behind the scene when you say the container the Pod is paused like I just wanted to understand in terms of like when it autoskills down to zero We are saving on resources with respect to compute right like is that a Similar thing that we can achieve during this because could the coast are definitely guests Of with the container pausing and then pausing but what what exactly it does happen with respect to the compute resource saving Does how how how does that work like because I was actually looking into the repository I could not find a lot of documentation around how it works Yep, so the question is kind of when you freeze a container what happens with the resource usage So right now what does is it pauses CPU usage? So the memory still is allocated to the pods you're not saving on Memory but you are saving on CPU so this is you know it prevents Bitcoin miners for example if you've got an idling pod They can't you know, there's no CPU cycles that are spinning so kind of at the moment It's really just saving on CPU resources as opposed to memory And there's some things maybe down the line like maybe like cry you or something like that We might be able to kind of also save on the memory, but for the moment. It's just it's saving CPU cycles Okay, it's similar. It's similar if you do like a container have different states the container can be stopped Can be can be running but but also there's another state that is pause So if you are familiar with Docker in Always been there I think you can do Docker pause and basically that's essentially what is what it's doing But we're doing it with container ID and there's a PR is the tpr open, right? Yeah, somebody from the community did a PR to add that to cry all So it's a an API that the demon calls to cry saying please stop this container from this pod And then and then would on passes or pass on on pass. Yeah, and that was just added to Cryo in their 124 release. That's Was recently added because I checked and I described supports this and then I went over there and it was Was recently added and then they jump over and then did the PR Just to mention because we're talking about you know contributors This was a contributor who wanted this function for cryo. It wasn't implemented in cryo So whenever the cryo did the PR to add the implementation in cryo and then wrote the PR for the container freezer So a great example of community involvement any Okay, I think anyone else good questions to Carlos and Paul Evan yep So What What barriers do you see to turning this on by default in Knative I think one of the big barriers right now is around kind of the probing interface right now We were on a readiness probe that checks to make sure the container is ready And if your containers paused the readiness probe isn't like that Which is hence part of the reason why we went on and when I add startup probes so that we can you know, perhaps make the readiness probe Not always there by default So I think that that's I think that's the biggest thing and then honestly like we need to test it a lot more It's it's alpha for a reason because it's not really been it's still Still though the ink is still wet on that one as the case may be And I don't know if the folks have an answer for that But another one would be like take advantage through the cubelet right if you we set pots to have certain limits For CPUs and you have a node with four parts that are pause You can fit other parts in there So how do we teach Kubernetes to be aware that there's Paul pots that are pause not consuming? CPU but it's consuming memories that it can squeeze something in and then maybe looking into like The feature about moving a frozen container or pot from one node to another pod That's something that I call it the V-motion pod and I'll be remote V motion is a VMware. I get and getting dated That aspect but it's the management in peace and the probe But the first one to to kick out is crew Prax is not even aware that these container is frozen So I don't know Matt has more to add. I Thought the slide said that the queue proxy requested that it be frozen Sorry, doesn't the queue proxy reach out to the freeze demon to tell it to freeze it It's sense like a like an event of the concurrency It's part of the handler chain So we kind of add that in there So the call will go out and we'll freeze and then when the request comes in it'll trigger it again to unfreeze So it should know when it's frozen Yeah, I think we we got a flag and it has said this first I don't think there's anything explicitly in there at the moment, but yes, I could know so I mean it also proxies all of the probes So it could just stop probing Yeah, we talked about that, but I think the well that's under discussion, but yeah, it technically could yes, okay So I'm curious what how the cry Interface for freezing is occult at the node level and And how that's expressed in terms of the privilege the freeze demon needs Is it like I assume it's mounting something like a unique socket to talk to The Christ yeah, it's mounting a unit socket and then we add the it so it runs per node So it's a daemon set it runs per node it and I think it makes the call over the socket and we Have to go back and look it's been a little bit But when we mount the secret in a in a volume that then The service account has access to So that that may be another thing to consider in terms of getting it on by default as some folks may not want You know a new demon set running with you know some significant level of capability on every node But I think it sounds super cool, and I'm glad that that landed in CRI Thanks Anyone else one two three, okay Thank you Paul and Carlos for your talk. Thanks everyone


Hey everybody, this is Christian Buckley doing another MVP buzz chat and I'm talking today with Morton. Hello. Hello. Hello. So Morton from folks that don't know you, who are you, where are you and what do you do? My name is Morton and I'm calling in from Denmark and I'm in Microsoft MVP just recently. I got to become an MVP on February 1st. So it's pretty new for me. Daily I'm a cloud and security architect working with medium-sized enterprise customers mostly with headquarters in Denmark, but a lot of international customers as well. Well, I know that Microsoft split out what was the enterprise mobility and there's a few, some MVPs that state as enterprise mobility, some that moved over to security and some that were made dual MVPs. So I guess it all depends on like the focus. So what do you talk about right about speak on on a regular basis? Well, I became an MVP in security. So I'm a, you can say a nature of security guy from the very beginning. I was actually nominated on January 6th and it was announced on February 1st. It was really fast through the system and really happy about that. So, but my passion is around the Azure side and the monitoring side, the logging and I do a lot of talk and blogs around that as well. So I, for example, in April, I did 19 blocks around the whole and new Azure Log Analytics V2 with both the log ingestion API and also how to do all the things with the AMA. So that's my passion. So, but besides that, I'm also working on the whole defender stack. So, you know, the security side of the M365. Yep. So it's both Azure and the M365 that, but focusing on the security side and the, and the logging. That's my passion. You know, so I've been involved over the years. I used to do independent research and so partner with a local university and do things and primarily into the Microsoft 365 stack, you know, that world. And year after year after year for the last at least decade, you know, the number one concern, the number one focus of customers is security. Yeah, exactly. And so that's it. I look, I go back my cloud experience actually started back in 2000, 2001, where I worked with the company that we built a dedicated cloud service around collaboration technology. And then, I mean, the issues that's where SaaS was a new, new terminology in the cloud and, and all that everybody was concerned about security and of their systems and accessibility and, and management of those things. And it's amazing that that those concerns have changed in all that time. That's right. Well, how I see it is that for me, it is very important when I work with my customers is to, to actually work with them on three different tracks and actually just to give you a little insight to my background back in 2016. I sold a big company that was a managed service provider doing an operation of customers. And I got in that process to learn about how to build up a big company and build an organization, build the processes around this and of course getting the technology in place to support these customers. And I use that knowledge today. So for me, I'm a, you can say a different, you know, technical guy, because I also know my way around, around processes and also building up the organization. So for me, when I deal with and talk with businesses today, for me, I have three tracks, you know, you have a technical track where you get the all the security stuff up and running and the new platform up and running. But I also address the processes and getting the organization maturity up and running. So for me, you know, technology by itself will not enable it will just be the enabler but it will not make sure that that things run 365 days a year. So, so that's how I talk into this. And I think it's very important that you address all three things. But, but I love the technology and the all the footprint that Microsoft has has gotten over time. And they have really become really a mature partner for people when talking about the security. So, but for me, I really also like what I see, for example, with some of the documentation around the processes and how do we adopt this as an organization. So I try to address all three tracks. Yep. Well, I always I do like to ask, because you mentioned just becoming an MVP. Yeah, what was that. So, what was your pathway to becoming an MVP. I mean, what led to you being, you know, you got introduced to the program. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So my what I've done is that I have been working very much with the product teams for numerous years, working on the private preview program. So that's actually how I started to learn the team behind this, both in Israel, and a lot of the security guys are located but also in Redmond and also in India. So I've been working with them for two, three years, giving feedback and having meetings with them and discussions with them. And a lot of that I really passionate about, you know, if I find something myself or my customers tell me this can be better and just giving feedback back to them in a constructive manner. And so, and then I was actually, you know, the team behind the private preview program asked me, you should start to do some more blogging around this to get, you know, the methods out. And I did tons of that work. And the, and actually that kind of accelerated this. So, I was doing a lot of internal feedback, you know, to Microsoft, and I'm also now sharing a lot of things.  And that is how I like it to do a lot of feedback and help people. And as an example, I was just in India two weeks ago, and there were 950 people at the conference, and one fifth of those were students. One of them came up to me to ask, how did you do it? What was your career path to this? How, what do I need to do to become an MEP? And what should I focus on in my career and all these things? So, a lot of, you know, I really like talking to people and trying to help them because I was there, you know, 30 years ago, when I started working with this. Yeah, that's, so I too, I've been in tech for 32 years now. Yeah. And one of my favorite things, like in the late 90s, early 2000s, I started working with a couple of universities with the University of California Berkeley and with Stanford, with a number of groups, I worked with a couple professors at both, and would talk to students, kind of the same thing, like, what's the path? What are all the job opportunities? Like, you get an engineering degree, or you get a business degree or a marketing degree around that, but you have a passion for tech. What are the opportunities? What can you go and do? And so, just trying to explain some of the fundamentals of that, and I tell us to my own adult kids as well, you know, four different areas that they're focused on. But that, my biggest recommendation for people is to write, write about your journey. You don't have to be a prolific writer, but if you're, it's almost like you're documenting your journey as you're learning, you'll kind of learn out loud, share what it is that you're going through. Don't be, make the mistake of reading what other people have written, be like, ah, well, they've already covered this. I don't need to write about it because your experience is unique. And so, by writing about it, that gets you, like, interacting with people in the community, asking questions, answering questions. I think what stood out to me about, from what you described, is probably first and foremost, since you can't nominate yourself to become an MVP, you have to have another MVP or a Microsoft person nominate you. And so, it will only benefit you to work with Microsoft people, ask questions, answer questions, be a resource for them. Yeah, and that's, I think it's all about sharing and, you know, sharing your feedback and sharing the knowledge, help people and to grow and answer questions and also be realistic about things and try to motivate people as well. In case, so for me personally, when I was nominated and waiting for this, I was, it was terrible for me, you know, it's like, when you are waiting for the renewal, will I be accepted or will I not be accepted? And it was really hard because suddenly you really want to do this. And for me, it was very exciting when I got that information. And to be, recently I was being nominated by the Azure Monitor team for an Azure MVP. And I realized that I couldn't get a second one because we had to wait for this renewal. And for me, that it will be July next year. So I have to wait and hopefully I will become an MVP again. Well, you know, I always tell people, it's like, so I honestly, I don't really think about the renewal. I'm not just like, it would be fantastic. But what I say, and I'm sure you feel the exact same way. It's like, look, I would do the things that I do regardless of whether or not I am an MVP. It's just part of my DNA that I do. I think it's a little special the first year because you don't know am I doing enough or what will be, you know, the line where you do it. But I fully agree with you. If I'm not being renewed, I'll just continue doing what I'm doing because it's so much fun. And like I was saying, I tried to come around and meet the people and I also invite my family to join. So we actually make a small trip out of it. Last year, for example, we went to Israel and I had a couple of days down there having, you know, 10, 12 meetings during two days. And we also got to swim in the Dead Sea and go to Jerusalem and stuff like that. So we tried to make a family project to visit these countries. My daughter especially would like to go with me to India because we want to go to visit Mount Everest and fly out there. Oh, yeah. Go to Nepal. So we have small things we want to try. So again, meeting the people and getting to know them. And that is important for me and learning how I can help and what are their challenges and how can we do better. I think it's important. For example, I've just built a new PowerShell module that will, it has actually been downloaded, I think 21,000 times already. And it will help customers migrate to the new log ingestion API inside Log Analytics. And I've been working very closely with the PEMs in the pipeline team and the DCR team as well, see how we can do things and make it easier for people to do this transition. So I've learned so much about that. You know, and a lot of things besides the technical side that you have to learn like GitHub and how do you do a markdown, a language for read me files and how do you set up the documentation and how do you measure the number of downloads and how do you publish scripts to PowerShell Gallery and stuff like that. So I've learned so much over the last couple of months and it has been so much fun. Well, that's, I think you've kind of tapped into the secret of it. I say it's the work out loud, but it's the, you know, you want to collaborate with people, you want to connect with people and help them and share what you know. I learned faster that way. It sounds like you have the same philosophy. Like we learn more when we're engaged in and asking questions and connecting with people. Yeah, and so that's the kind of, that's the secret to certainly to becoming an MVP is it's the connections that you build and it has to be, I know that there are people that are very introverted that are MVPs and they do things and they're not as much into the social scene around that. But you still have to make connections and yeah, yeah, so well, Morton, I really appreciate your time today talking to get to know you. Hopefully we'll be able to, you know, hook up some time over here in the US if you do a family over here and you're looking for suggestions, especially the Western US, that's kind of my realm. But you're happy to help out and hopefully see you at the MVP summit next year. But for folks that want to get in touch, where are you the most active in social? Where can they find you? Yeah, so I will, I'm mostly on LinkedIn. That's where I am. And you can search for me and Morton Walton Knudsen and I can provide the link as well. And that's where I'm sharing mostly and on Twitter I'm Knudsen Morton DK. So those are the typically places that I share things. I have my own blog. It's Morton Knudsen.net and I'm sharing things on there. But I'm mostly on LinkedIn. That's where you can find me most of times. Excellent. Well, I'll have, of course, all of Morton's links that are in the bio that are in the video is on YouTube as well as on the blog. So Morton, I really appreciate your time today. Thank you, Christian. It's really great to be here. So thank you very much.