Hello. Hey, what's up, folks? Welcome back to another 3D Hangouts. My name is Noelle Ruiz. I'm a designer here at Adafruit. Joining me every week is my brother Pedro. Good morning, everybody. I'm Pedro. I create a tech here at Adafruit. Every week we're here to share 3D-printed projects featuring electronics from Adafruit. That's right. This show we combine 3D-printing and DIY electronics to make inspirational projects. Hello, everybody hanging out in the Discord chat room. If you'd like to join us during the show, you can go to the Discord, Adafruit Discord channel. The invite code for that is discord.gg slash Adafruit. And we'll take a moment to welcome everybody to the show. Hello. Good morning. Good morning, everybody hanging out in all of the chats. Morning, Andy Calaway, Mike P., Jim Henderson, Vince, Rosanne, DeWester. Everybody else hanging out all around the interwebs. Yep. We are also hanging out in the various chats. Facebook, YouTube, and Twitch all show up so we can say hello to everybody. Yeah, yeah. Let's see. Yes, we have this cool ability to now pull in chats from some of the places. Good morning, Professor Stevens. Hello. Welcome to the show. We're going to get started with some housekeeping as we do in the beginning of the show. So let me get to that and we'll jump back into the Discord after the housekeeping. So first up, I want to tell everybody about the deals that are going on at Adafruit, the Adafruit shop. If you order stuff and if you spend a certain amount of money, you will get some free things. So let's take a look at what we got this week. For orders that are $99 or more, you're going to get a half size from a Proto Redboard PCB. For orders that are $149 or more, you'll get the half size from a Proto plus a KB2040. That's that lovely dev board dedicated for making keyboard projects. And for orders of $200 more, you'll get the KB2040 dev board, the half size from a Proto, and free UPS ground shipping for continental US only. And then for orders that are $299 or more, you'll get the free shipping, the KB2040, the half size from a Proto, and a BBC Microbit version 2. So go to adafruit.com slash free for all of those. And for viewers of the show, we have a special 10% discount code this week. It's IOT NeoPixels. And we'll talk about why it's that during the project segment of the show. So if you want to put your orders in now, you can use that coupon code. Cool, cool. Next up, we're going to take a look at the jobs board. If you are looking for a job in the maker's sphere, you can go to jobs at adafruit.com, browse the site, or create a profile, and it's all free to do so. So check that out at jobs.adafruit.com. And that is the housekeeping. I speed rounded that one. All right. Yep, cool. Good morning, DJ Devin. Hey, welcome to the show. Hi, Devin. I'm Jeff into this week's cool project. It is some very cool thing that we've been looking for for a while. It is NeoPixel and .star support inside of Whippersnapper. Adafruit's no code IOT service and solution for a bunch of the dev boards like ESP32 Feathers and the Pico W. So what I want to show off here is just some updated cases that we made for making sure that these are mountable to be used with LED installations. So we jump over to the, my scope, did I move my? Yeah, you can add your screen in. There it is. Sorry, of course the internet decided to go down right before the show. So yeah, these are updated cases. This is one for the Pico W and then one for Feather. In this case it's the S2, ESP32 S2, but it should fit the S3s and I think the 8266 and the 32 V2 as well. That might be some differences in the, one of the mounts near the module, but all in all, you can update these. Of course the snap fit backs and lids for them as well has a nice little hook to use what I've been using to mount all of these, those command strip hooks. So you have a nice clean installation without having to drill any holes into your wall. And what we're using here inside of Adafruit IO, I share my screen as well. So we can do both at the same time. I, oh, I, let's see, edit room Feather. See edit room Feather. You see we have a nice little UI. Oh, let me go to share screen because of course all of my things were removed. Right before the show, the internet kind of reset. Device, there we go. Nice simple little UI inside of the dashboard here. So you can see we have a nice little component that allows you to add a color picker. Go in here and update any of your colors. So for now it's just fill. So it'll fill the entire, all your no-pixel. So in this case we have this little 16 no-pixel ring and go in here and just change the color. But one of the cool things is that you can have it be reactive.  So you can monitor your temperature humidity and then the TS, the TSL, which will monitor your light levels. In my case I'm monitoring when the sun rises and falls and having those lights turn on based on the rise in the sunset. Of course you can have it warn you. So if say your humidity or temperatures reach a certain level you can have those change. So one of the demos that we have for that is I hooked up a PIR to the Pico W. So this little PIR here is attached. So when it senses motion it'll change colors on you. So I'll just wave my hand right in front of there and you can see that it'll change red. And you can also have that trigger like send a message to your phone or have that push out info to other components as well. And it's a simple little case. It's based off the, I wanted to release this case. Had it in one of the previous projects but one of the things I saw was that the Pico W gets really hot when you have new pixels attached to it. So I had to modify the case. So I added extra vent holes to the back and raised the standoffs. And then the way that the sensors are mounted we're using our handy dandy little standoff kit that we have in the shop to raise those away from the case in the board itself. So it doesn't mess with any of the temperature and humidity readings. So some updates to that. And then for the feather I noticed that we didn't have any wall mountable cases for the feather. So super simple, same idea just having vents on there just in case it gets a little too hot and then the back lid is nice and open. In this case to allow the JST connections to easily connect to a new pixel strip. And I'm trying to think of what else I can talk about this. Oh, you can also build dashboards. So if I go into, see that I built one for that. Check out the one I built for the kitchen. Of course my CSS is not gonna match what I made. Oh no. That's fair, you can edit it, right? Yeah, you can take a look at this. It's basically the same thing, but I'm having the ability to have it inside your dashboard. So you can see all of your other readings as well. So if you see something's funny, you can go ahead and change everything up. So here you can see the sunrise and sets. You can get all your values here. So you know that whatever 140 is, you can see that it's the peak of when the sunlight is hitting that particular room, which is what is the kitchen. And you can monitor. Could you show us the setup for the PicoW with the PIR sensor? I think that's a really good demo to show like a pretty instant interaction with the new pixels. Oh yeah, yeah. Yes, if we go back into here, you can see the PIR component and Tyler and Justin and Brent and Lauren and all the team on Whipper and Adderford IO did an excellent job of doing some cool icons and animation and of course all the functionality you can see here that it animates when it sees all the stuff happening. So this is limited to, I think it's checking every 10 seconds. So that's kind of immediate. And then we're using the latest beta for this, which is beta 61. You check out for free.  In the video, when I'm setting up everything, that was all real time. Like I set the board up as I'm recording, like first time setting up the components and everything and I had complete trust in that this was gonna work because the reliability of this is really good. So I was able to set all the camera gear up and start recording with it being the very first time that I was setting up a board, setting up the components and all that to excellent work on that. And yeah, really cool way to set up your actions, which we can check out right now. If we go into the actions tab here, you can see the first one, the one that's detecting the motion is going to edit here. So if the PIR sensor is red, you can see how this is listed, a nice little list of all the components and then all of the sensors inside here. So really easy to get to. So we'll see here the PIR. So if the PIR is equal to one, it's reading that something has moved. It's either one or zero. Then push a message to, of course, like we were saying before, you can email, you can do messages through IO and web hooks. I think we're looking at like SMS, right? With Twillow, trying to check out the plans to see if that's gonna make sense. So you can push it out in a number of different ways that way. So if any of that, those values are met, push to feed of inside of Raspberry Pi Pico, the NeoPixel and then change that to this hexadecimal, which is, I believe, red, like a not super, like a dark red and you just not blind out the camera. And then here you can limit, check every one minute, 15.  And then the second action to have it go back to the color that it was before. So when it stops seeing motion, you can see how that is edited or how that is set up. If you read zero, then go ahead and turn it back to like a dark white. Again, we're only checking limited every 10 seconds. So pretty instant. If you're trying to get some, if there's lots of crowds or something walking by to where you have your PIR set up. Of course, this doesn't have to be PIR, you can have this be like pressure, humidity, like any of that stuff. Like if you have like migraines or something, you can get alerted as the pressure is rising or falling or temperature. If you have it set up with plants or something, you can see if the, you know, gets below 30% humidity or if it gets above 90 half or above 40 C or like the VOC light sensors, all that stuff is in there and supported. Super cool to be able to be warned with lights. Something is happening, you know. Awesome addition to that, especially if you know, you're just a designer. It's definitely opens up the door to be able to have more like DIY projects around the house or, you know, for any other, I'm going to say like plants or something like that where you want to monitor stuff and keep track and log all of the data along with that. Now you can control the lights. So super awesome that we now have easy access to do that. Could you go back to the feather device page? I just want to let people know that Whippersnapper and native video has tons of support for lots of different sensors. So I think a really popular project would be like monitoring the quality of the air. So if you wanted to use, click the plus button, that way you can see all the components. Yeah. So if we had like a, what is it the, what's the air quality sensor? Yeah, all the analogs, all the, there we go. Yeah, the PMSA 003. Like let's say you have a room that has like a laser cutter or something that creates a lot of carbon dioxide. Like you can now use your new pixels to let you know, like, hey, this room, we need to air it out because there's a lot of CO2 in the air. So you can use this sensor hooked up to a feather or a PicoW and like quickly just plug and play this thing. And because these sensors from Adafruit have these Stemic UT ports, there's no soldering. You just plug it into the board and like you're ready to start playing. You can daisy chain the sensors. So that I think would be a really cool project to do as well. Maybe in your printer room, you want to check the humidity or you have like a filament drybox and you want to keep track of that. Now you can have a neopixel or a dot star strip alert you, you can just look at it and know exactly like what the level is. That's a good idea, right? There's so many combinations. Yeah, so many combos of different sensors. So you can see when it's done and ready to print. Yeah, there you go, yeah. So that's just one of many different project ideas you can do like right away. Adafruit IO and Whipper Snapper is a free service for I think two devices and 10 feeds. So check it out if you want to do more stuff with it. There's I think a fee, an annual fee that you can check out too, just by hitting over to io.adafruit.com and see what suits your needs. But we want people to play with it for free. So you can have at it with a couple devices. So which devices are supported just about any of the Adafruit ESP type boards. They come in different sizes. So we have the QT pie, the feather and then of course the Raspberry Pi Pico W and there's more on the way. So yeah, and then the dashboards is a whole another level of like just kind of being able to visually see what your sensors, datas are showing. Yeah, so we're cool. And that's a little bit of the project. Yeah, so you want to pick up the boards or if you want to download the files they are over on our thing of verse. We'll post these to the rest of the STL repositories but super simple little case. Oh, here we have loaded up there. It's one for the feathers and then one for the Pico. So for the Pico you do, I did model it with the Pi Cowbell in mind but this adds is like extra prototyping areas, a reset button and a Stemma QT connection to it. So it's a nice expand like a wing or a hat expansion for the Pico's. That's what it looks like there. So you can get access to all of the grounds and connections that you're going to need. And of course, like we were saying before, is that my screen or is that your screen? No, it's your screen, I switched it for you. I can't click on anything. Maybe if I reload and one of those mornings. Yeah, everything needs to be reloaded. There you go. Yep, it adds the semi QT connection and like I was saying before, like a little breadboard area of access to all those pins and a lot of connections for that. If we go over to the overhead, you can see how this is all set up in real time. Get make that larger. Oh, I'll handle that, there you go. Yeah, the snap fit case uses a little snaps.  And then for the feather, super simple, it's just a little little lip lid thing that pops in there. And we're using these, the standoffs, they just press fit right into place so you don't have to use any screws.  And we're using the command strip clips with the little hooks on them so that those go through there and then they just get mounted to the wall, like that. Yeah. And like we were saying before, using the standoffs to elevate and to daisy chain the sensors together. Very nice. Get it away. That's pretty much it. Nice little simple way to make some visualizers for your sensors. Oh, it should actually stay in the sense. Right after this, go right into, what are we prototyping? Yeah. Well, let's take a question real quick. I got here on YouTube. This one is from Professor Stevens. He's saying, we've been using the Circuit Playground Express in my classroom at UMD. Is that still the most current microcontroller you offer or should we switch to the feather or something else? This is a good question. I really like the Circuit Playground Express as a teaching device because it has all the components on the board. So it has lots of sensors, Neopixels built in. I still think the Circuit Playground is one of the best dev boards. With a feather, you'd have to do some soldering if you wanted to get Neopixels wired up to it. Circuit Playground Express is just ready to go and it's really meant for educational settings because it has all of those components built in. It has a built-in buzzer so you can do audio. I think it has a microphone on there as well so you can take in audio as well. So definitely still the best dev board, in my opinion, for the classroom. And if you want to use feather, it's more like if you want to do a portable project where you want to connect a LiPo battery and have built-in charging, that's when you want to switch over to a feather. But that's a really good question. Yeah, and one of the biggest things too for that too is that it works with make code. So you can do block-based programming, basically just drag-and-drop stuff and we have so many tutorials on how to easily get something like we were just showing off the PIR, you could definitely do that right out of the gate with make code and a Circuit Playground Express. Sure, yep, cool, good question. And let's take a look at this cord real quick as well. Just to kind of catch up on the folks. See, DJ Devin has asked, can we add numerical values for colors for 255 RGBs, for example, two plot colors or color hexes only in the color wheel? Good question. So if you currently that's, let me see. I did notice when I set up the component, there is, it does ask the order of the RGB. So is it GRB or is it? Oh, right. Yeah, that's getting into the real nitty gritty of the NeoPixel. There are different from the NeoPixel. Yeah, yeah, maybe we can, I think right now the hex color is just kind of the easiest way to do it. But I think later down the line, we might add support for the different values for the NeoPixel. Yeah, so you've changed the order. Yeah, I'm looking at your screen. Yeah, you're all good. So you can, there's lots of different NeoPixels. What can you do? There should be W's code one, because then you have that. And that's what I want to use instead. Right, okay. Well, that's good. And you'll test this out on yourself just to kind of verify. Like if you have a different version of the WS chipset, you could play around and see what order of pixels. So if green is red, then you'll know that you need to change the order, right? So that's an easy way to kind of test it. Cool, yeah. But for now, hex colors is what we have. This is what the dot star one looks like. Not really different. Yeah, what does that star look like? Yeah. It just asks you for the clock pin. So that's the additional thing. Yeah, yeah. So from my understanding, the dot star is really good for POV, persistent of vision projects. So if you're trying to do like a POV magic wand project, you'll want to use the dot star because it's just like faster frame rates. And you need two data pins. You need clock and data for the dot star. But the majority of things we do for props and stuff, we just use neopixels because just one data pin. Yeah. Cool, cool. Awesome. Any other on bits? Based on the postings in the dashboard it looks like it's time to show off the Tron stuff. Right, right. Oh, there's also Raspberry Pi's A pluses are in stock. So that's nice if you need a Pi. Get your Pi. You can use our coupon code. Tempolling back to the Professor Stevens question. Yes, the Blue Fruit Circuit Playground Express lets you wirelessly set up colors or stuff like that. And we have a couple of different apps to allow you to interact with the Circuit Playground Blue Fruit. Yes, the Circuit Playground Blue Fruit is a really good one too. If you want to do projects with like your phone, like a mobile device. Yep, like you said, you can change colors and the animations and all that sort of stuff. And there's an app for iOS and Android called the Blue Fruit Connect. Which we're gonna show off in this next segment. Okay. Very good. Let's see, any other things? Yeah, okay. All right, cool. Yeah. Go ahead and jump into this week's what are we prototyping? All right, so this week's prototyping is nice little update to the Tron Disk Identity Disk. Let's go ahead and turn it on. I got the LEDs mounted in there. So we have the dark saber code in here right now. And we have the mini skinny side with LEDs facing up and then some mini skinny LEDs facing, just regular ones facing outwards for these. Let's see, it is, I think it's the medium density one. We were watching Tron Legacy and it looks like that's what they use when they're doing like the trail animation for these. You can see how they animate on them. And a nice little diffusion that we have going on here. We're using the color swap trick. So when the print starts, it goes with the white and then after I think 12 layers, we switch to the black filament so we can sort of mask out the rest of the lights. And then like we were saying before, it's the dark saber code, so we can quickly edit that. But we are using the Adafruit Blue Fruit Connect app, free download on the app store. And there is one for Android as well. You can go into the controller and the color picker and then we can go ahead and join the orange team. You can update colors that way. And isn't there like animations inside here too with the control pad? Oh, no, I crashed it. Let's do that again. Yeah, we can add animations, but I think that's a different project. Okay, but that's where it would be, right? Inside of the- Sure, yeah, you could use the control pad and either the numbers or the arrows to change a number of different things like animations. I think we have a project where like the up and down arrow like control speed and stuff. Or am I thinking of something else? No, I'm sure it's done for sure. Oh yeah, I'm like that. I'm not sure which profit at the moment. Yeah, so it's a piccolo, you can do that. Did they ever have a green one in the shot? No, it's only blue and yeah. Let me go back to the nice, yellow blue. So we're mounting, okay, so we have the access to the on and off button and then the USB connection is in the inside right here using our little breakout to get that out. And then we're using the M2 nylons to hook all this together. And then one of the things that Lamar wanted when I pitched this was, well, I wanted it to stick to your back like you always see in Tron, people have made these and nobody's made that before. So I have a couple of magnets on there. I ordered a harness. We can like have it underneath our garment. And hopefully that's the right one right there and switch over to this camera over here. How cool is that? There's magnets all on the inside and you can attach these other magnets to like your garments or whatever and it'll stick to your back. How freaking cool is that? So let me demo that. Well, that will look like you grab it. Let's go. Turn it on. I don't know if we can have that animation because there is a, the prop maker feather wing is inside here. Should I open it or just show like a different, because I'll probably won't be able to get it together. I went ahead and grabbed one of the older, if you go back to the, I got you. Look what the inside looks like. So we have mounts for the 2200 milliamp hour battery in here. The magnets get mounted inside here. So they don't press fit. We have a little cap that actually press fits on there. So we've always have problems with magnet tolerances. It's either too loose or it's too tight. You have to like push it in there or you have to like glue it in. And, you know, when we're prototyping stuff, sometimes we have to like update our part or in this case I didn't do the color swap on this. So it was blocking the light from this little lip. So I had to reprint it again.  And we've done that for fricking years. So it was like, there's gotta be a different way to do this. So having a little cap to just hold it in place is a works out really good. We have our speaker mount on here. So we do have to take the speaker. I originally liked the rocket project. I had everything send which into, it was mounted on top of the prop maker feather wing. So I couldn't have that on there just because it would have made this too tall. So I moved it over here and updated the way that it holds on. So it's a, I don't know, like that universal bi-directional, whatever, so you can mount it up, you can mount it down depending on what makes the louder sound. And we have the cutouts for the USB breakout board since we, I can't really position this, you know, to have it plugged into the feather board. So this will, I'll just make a little USB cable for that. And then switch mounts onto here. That's pretty much it. All the wiring and the LEDs. The battery clip. Did you just talk about the clip for the battery? Yeah, it's a 22 milli, 22 milliamp hour battery. Just clips on here, just slides in, holds it in place. And that's pretty much it. It is rechargeable. So you can recharge the circuit when the circuit is shut off, which is a great feature. That's one of the benefits of having an 80 foot feather. It has a built-in USB recharging. So you can recharge your circuit and leave the rest of the circuit off while it's recharging. So all built-in and modular and... I think it's so freaking fun. Yeah, it's pretty fun. Yeah, so yeah, you've got the accelerometer built into the prop maker feather wing and of course that NeoPixel JST port for connecting to them. How many pixels in total do you have there? Do you know off the top of your head? No, I don't. More than 30. Yeah, I gotta actually go to the code. It doesn't fill up all the pixels all the way. Oh, really? Yeah, I gotta go here and add more pixels to it. But whatever the default was for the dark saber. Yeah, I think it's something like low, like 30 or so, because I used the low density strip. But it's all strictly Python, so you can edit it on any computer and any text editor and just update the code because all the libraries and sound effects live on the device, on the feather. So you have access to them. I'm seeing a lot of gifts here from Yanni. This is the kind of 1980s Tron ID disk where it was more of a Frisbee. So just throwing it out there, you're going more for like the Tron legacy, the updated kind of thing. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, but this is still good to see. It's got a brag. Yes, I got my annual pass, my preview or getting on the ride. So we'll be there March 4th at 6.30. So hopefully get nice sunset, like hero shots, putting it on like as the walkway has it, where the roller coaster has the bikes going right over you. So it's gonna be like, have a nice shot. It'd be cool if you could have Brandy film you, like having it on your back. There is that tester seat that you can test to see if you fit in it. So maybe get some shots of you in that. That way you're pretty much dedicating like a still shot. Yeah, that's good. It looks so cool. You're getting the harness today. So I can see it like actually on. It's like half of the project is wearing it. Yeah, yeah. Got a Tron suit for Declan. So we'll see how that works. Obviously we're, man, I wish we had enough time to actually put like EL wire or something on the costume that we got on Declan. I got a hoodie too, but it's like, man, we're not gonna have time to put it on there. If I did that, it might sort of distract from what the main project is. The disc and not the clothes, which seems like that's what would happen. Mm-hmm. True. Yeah. Well, the way that Tiggery said it. What's really nice about it, about it being Bluetooth connected is that, let's say that you're filming your prop and it's too bright. Well, now you can change the brightness without having to edit the code because you just changed it on the mobile device. Change the brightness, so that's gonna be fun too. Actually, I just put it here. So here's the slider for the brightness on us. You can have it go dark or as bright as it can go. Yeah. Yeah, and you're in a well-lit room, so it's gonna illuminate your environment when you're in the dark. You can kind of see it there, yeah. Aw, man, it's so good. Nice. Of course. How happy does it feel? I'm not too heavy. I mean, it's as heavy as a feather and a battery. Okay, so maybe like a quarter of a pound. As I showed in the demo, or the magnet demo. Where's the magnet? Oh, wrong polarity. That's funny. The other thing too. If you mess up their polarity, oh, no, I included it in. Nope. No, you're good. Yeah, it holds up with just one, with one magnet, but I have like three of them in there. I have five in there, but it's like, man, that's too much. Oh, really? Like all strategically spaced away from the speaker and all the components and all that. Oh, right, right. Yeah, you can see here. These are the magnets we sell in the shop. So you pick these up. Yeah, they're neodymium rare earth magnets, and they're pretty chunky. Got to remind, careful with these magnets, they are powerful. Of course, with the way the morning was going, it already pinched me. Yeah. So it's super careful with that. No, it didn't pinch me too bad, but almost. Oh, okay. Yeah, I can. And then the other thing too, if they smash together, they are going to shatter, so be super careful with that. Oh, yeah, I've had that happen. Yeah, we've had, you don't have to throw them away because they shattered it, but yeah, you can see that. Oh, man. Wow. Nice and hidden. There's something that Devon said about the... Yeah, trying to get the dialing in the tolerances for this. Yeah, when we change suppliers, we notice, you know, they change thickness or even the diameter of it, so it's like, man, there's definitely a problem we needed to solve for this. So, yeah. Yeah, that's a good one. Tron identity disk, circuit python, wireless, oh, the board we're using on it, just because I don't know if the code will work with the RP2040s or the SP32s. It is the NRF52840, just the same board that we used on the Dark Saber. And by the looks of it, last time I checked, those are in stock, so you should be able to pick those up. And...  Yeah, a really good board for, especially if you just want to, you know, grab code and add it on there. Who was it? Who saw... Kumi, right? Kumi Cosplay was making something and she just loaded on the Dark Saber code. So for quickly iterating, making cosplay projects, dude, this is the way to go. Like, I didn't have to bother you or Liz to be like, oh, could you please get me some code? To get this board. Yeah, it's definitely modifiable. All of my, well, most of my, just getting the print going and getting all the components to fit all nice. So, definitely take stress off of, but you want to get completed, which is the MVP, you know, that's this, you want to have this ready, you know. So, definitely a great board and app and everything that goes along with it to have any sort of, you know, to adjust this to any sort of cosplay prop. Yeah, that is the Tron disc. Let's see, what did I say? March 4th. So I want to release it after we get that hero footage. I'll come out to what the two weeks from now. Yeah, two weeks, just so I can get in there. And then for my sanity, there was too much going on this week. I knew I needed a week off or something. Yeah, it was supposed to be a short week anyway. All right, so probably want to get the, yeah, a little bit. So folks want to get the NRF feather, the blue fruit feather, we got it in stock and use the coupon code. So check that out if you want some Bluetooth connected projects. Yeah, very nice DJ Devin saying the I2S amplifier. I'll put some nice sounds too. Yeah, that's true. Very nice. Oh, and that reminds one thing that we did use for, thanks to the DJ Devin for pointing these out. I know these existed, what I used on mounting all of the LEDs were these really cool wire covers that just blend right into all of the aesthetics of what the kitchen looks like. So cool that I grabbed another set of these. So it's, you know, all these corner pieces come with it. Like we're showing in the video, the, these act as really good diffusers as well. So it is kind of like grabs onto it and it attaches. It looks like what's it called the, it's like the bright color for mouse balls. Yeah, it's the crown. It's like a trim. The trim. Like a trim, yes. And it just work for it. And it's the perfect size for the, the regular stripes and pixels. So they just slide right in. And then with the command hooks, the, this little, little curve part just clips right in. So it hides everything so fricking beautifully. So yeah, definitely, if you want to post that link again, Devin, this guy. Oh, it looks so fricking nice. Oh my gosh.  Yeah, yeah. I think those would be great for the, the neon signs and any of those LED signs. Cause I always have like a black wire and it's so high contrast against the white wall. It's hard to get white wires as well that aren't from Apple. I tried and I couldn't find any. Yeah, yeah. I remember you were trying to look for some that had like the four wires. I went ahead and ordered them already was the, for the dots are specifically. Yeah. They don't have any white ones.  I'm checking the, the chat here on YouTube and a role of the S is asking, do you think the Raspberry Pi is dead or will it return? Not easy and cheap to get in there in Norway. No, I don't think it's dead. It's just, it's hard to spin up the manufacturing. So I think it's one of the only folks that have, you know, some built in safeguards for folks to be able to actually get a pie and not have some of the scalpers that purchase a bunch of them, resell them. So that's kind of why it's a little bit difficult to get them, but yeah, it's definitely here to stay. Cool. Oh, how funny. Devon's saying that he, he just picked one randomly. He doesn't actually own these. Well, I can give it the thumbs up approval. That works so good. Oh, that's great. Yeah. Saying, yeah. Okay. Yeah. So just, what did you call them later? Wire covers? So they have final. Yeah. What's the box saying? Just wire, wire covers? One cooler channel. You probably get them in here. I wouldn't be surprised if they're like a target or something, but. Yeah. I know these is what worked out. Oh, here's all the stuff that comes with like the corner pieces or like, again, you're not going to need that adhesive, but. Oh, interesting. That's great. It comes with all that stuff. So you can have like the elbow so it can go up and around. Wow. That was really nice. Yeah, dude. They're so nice. That's great. Yeah. I didn't know about these. Yeah. Look at the order history as we go to the next segment and post the link. Cause yeah. It should be like on the top of the list. Those just came in yesterday. Cool. I got a quick prototyping. So I'll switch gears over to my screen while you look for stuff. Let me add my screen in here. Hey, here we go. All right. So I got this fun project idea from Lamar, Lady Aida. She saw a key, a mini controller or a keyboard that had hexagon shaped key caps. And she asked like, it'd be cool to make a small version of that. So we are, I designed and 3D printed some of these hexagonal key caps support the Kale Chalk switches. These are low profile mechanical key switches. So Adafruit carries two different ones. The white clicky versions and the red non clicky versions. So I went ahead and tried 3D printing these out and they have some pretty tight tolerances but on most 3D printers, I think folks will be able to print these out. No support material on these. They print flat, so you have a flat surface here. And then it has these two pegs and a little bit of geometry here to kind of level out those two pegs. And these Kale switches, they come with a really nice data sheet. So I was able to get super precise measurements for the distance between these two pegs. The pegs themselves are about three millimeters tall by one millimeter thick. And these Kale switches have a little slot for LEDs. So if you wanted to do that, and then they have some posts here if you want to do like a PCB and stuff to kind of keep them balanced in there. So you just give them a nice firm press and they click really well. So I got that working and then I went ahead and kind of wanted to make my own keypad that would kind of have free form wiring. So I printed them out, the key caps in different colors. So here you have the sparkly black, this yellow and then this white here. So I have them arranged in this kind of fun hexagonal pattern here. They all kind of fit nicely together. And then I went ahead and designed and 3D printed a little case to house them. For my dev board, I'm using the QT Pi RP2040 with a little modular holder here. So it all snap fits together. So I'm using my little snaps here. So this is the top portion of it. And then this is the key plate that fits inside the case. The case is a three parts kind of set up. So I have the top and then the bottom. And I have my little snaps here. So this is what houses the dev board. It's just the QT Pi RP2040. It has plenty of GPIO for seven keys. And then the key plate just kind of sits in this little ledge here of the frame.   And then for the key plate, it just snap fits in as well. And then this is my little kind of tester bed for getting the keys to pop in and out. So they can pop out easily like that. And yeah, they're pretty low profile. So ideally we want to have this 3D print be a PCB. JP John Park is actually going to work on designing a custom PCB for these. And he's also going to add new pixel, reverse mount new pixels to the PCB itself. So it'll be a really nice low profile PCB. But I just wanted to get a little print going on for the key caps. There is at least one reseller distributor of hexagon injection molded key caps. But I really wanted to try to 3D print them. And at first, you know, I really didn't think it was possible because it's like, well, you can't print that. It's too small. But these key caps, they work pretty good. And as you've heard that maybe it survives a firm press and taking it off, which is a testament to the print. Yeah. And you know, different. Yeah, I did this on an Ender cruelty printer. So I think any of the cruelty style printers would work. Prusa definitely would work as well. And right now, 80 fruit stocks, these clear chalk key caps, they're the boring square ones, but they are clear. And you know, they just kind of fit like that as well. So these are the clicky versions. So now you can have these hexagon style ones. It looks so much better as hexagon. Does it? It looks great. Yeah. I really like them. The spelling bee, online kind of wordled style game, which is really fun. But it'd be really cool to see a custom PCB. There we go. Click that in there. I love that. And we haven't, yeah, we haven't done a project. We've done a lot of keypads, but they all use the Cherry MX style, the really chunky boys. So these chocks are very small, low profile. So hope to see more of projects with the chalk style key switches. So that is what we are prototyping. Probably shouldn't use the keyboard, right? 24, but I don't have a lot of keys. So I think the QTiPi works out really well, right? You want to use it right now. I think that's what Lamar said, yeah. Because it doesn't work. Yeah, love the ribbed, what is it called again? Honey. Scap. Scap, S-K-E-P, the Scap style honeycomb pattern. So yeah, and there's a lot of fun stuff here too that have like a little embedded kind of geometry here for the USB-C port on the QTiPi. But yeah, lots of snap fit bits here. And then of course I like having openings here. There's a lot of clearance in there, but that's because I'm going to have wires. So it's always good to have it, have your height for your closure a little bit bigger than it needs to be. Just accommodate it for wires. At least four millimeters. Yeah, exactly, at least four millimeters. So there's the hole getting caboodle there. So I'll wire these up and maybe make it into a MIDI controller or some sort of keypad for like Fusion 360. Could be kind of nice. Oh. Yeah, and then I don't have my USB cable, but yeah, that's about it there. USB-C. All right, keep trying to end her up. No, that's fine. Keep wanting to point to the discord, all of the banter going on in there on all the different shapes it looks like, James Webb telescope. Oh yeah, there you go. Off the ball. That's fun. Little animation there. Nice, yeah. Next step, can you see in C-Mill ones? Yes, we can totally see in C-Mill. I'm a fan of 3D printing them though, because less waste, when you see in C, you got a lot of dust and waste, but it'd be cool to, I don't know, try to mill them out of wood or something like that, it'd be cool to. But yeah, print them in different colors, right? I really like this glitter black. And then print, you know, have as many colors as you want to. You could probably even do like, you could probably etch some lighters or something if you'd like on the first layer. That's always a fun thing to do as well. So yeah, that's this week's, the project I'm working on is hexagons, the best of guns, right? Oh yes. Yeah, and Adderfruit stocks, Chalk, so just type in Chalk. And we got the clicky white ones and the red ones that are non-clicky, they're silent. Oh, we have black ones too, I didn't know that. So we have black ones. Oh, we have these sockets, so if you want to have it be removable, so that's cool. But we don't have a PCB for it, which Sean is going to work on, he's going to do the PCB portion of it. So that'd be nice to have. KMK firmware, for CircuitPython, I think we have something like that. Eva looking at that or? I can't remember where it ended up. I think she was pushing out a... Here we go, KMK. Yeah, yeah, yeah, check it out, KMK. So just search for KMK on the Adderfruit learn system and you'll see a couple of different stuff. Clicky Eva was the one who did all this. Yeah, she did an excellent job on... Yeah, there's demo code, right away. Yeah, there's demo code right away. We have a library, KMK matrix, diode orientation. Oh. Yeah, yeah. You can do your keyboard... You can figure out all the craziness. Yeah, look at this. I remember when it was like a freaking struggle to get it all. Okay, okay, okay. Yeah, CircuitPython, KMK, they're tight. So, very cool. Set it up. Oh, that's prototyping. That's some awesomeness. All right, go ahead and jump into this week's Community Makes. Okay, let me get the video fired up here. This is... No theme to add this to. I don't know what... I was just thinking of something to print while all the other craziness was going on. Oh, that's funny. It looks cool, a trilobite. Yeah. And they're like, oh, that looks cool. Really? Great choice on the rainbow silk filament. Like, that's cool. I need more of this stuff. Yeah, there's no stringing on it. Yeah. Nice little articulation that they got going on. And of course, the texture looks so cool. It's like some sort of bumpy, I don't know. Like, on the tail. Just the way that I want to make your lottery. Give me a sec here. Coming out.  And of course, like a puppy, you can see his belly. It's like a puppy. It's like a belly. That's great. That's it. Creepy cool. That's what I think. Yeah. I've seen other trilobites back in like 2012 where they're very kind of basic geometry, but this has like some really nice detail to it. Yeah, like the MakerBot days. Yeah, I remember printing a dual extrusion version of this. It was like green, white, green and black. I think some assembly was required for that one, remember? Like you had to snap them together? Or no. Did it print in place? Well, I think it was just dual printed. Yeah, it was just dual extruded. All right. Well, this prints in place. Or I don't remember. There is a bunch of support material, which is still in there. Oh, really? And it's all in the crevices. Oh yeah, because of the kind of seat here, the way that these little, I don't know, spines like sort of lift up. I tried like sinking it into the bed, but then it like completely... Oh, the hinge, yeah. Yeah, completely messed up the hinge. Yeah, that's the only unfortunate thing about this, but look how good it came out, even with all the supports, and then a big ol' brim all around the side of the object. Yeah. So this is on Thingiverse, designed by Auntie Fah. And they put it up here on Thingiverse. And I've calculated, Trilobite doesn't move from side to side much, but it looks great draped over your shoulder. Compound eyes and everything. If you improve the file, please let me know. And there's a couple of makes here, or comments rather. So very, very fun. Yeah. So the STL is available to download. And yeah, that's this week's Time Ops Tuesday. I'll post a link to the rainbow filament, because yeah, I need to get more. This is good stuff. It doesn't string, and the way that the color change on it is really good. I like how the ramp of the gradient is really good. Usually it can be sort of, if you the way it transitions into the next color, it can be either like it cuts right off or it's like not good. The way the colors bleed together. Quick question. So those are one of them. Yeah, I'll post the link to that filament. I think it's a no-name filament. Tahit is asking about looking for a component, the vertical quick connector in the Eagle design. Who has that? One of the feathers has a vertical quick connector. Well, STEMMA, QT connector. Yeah. You could definitely search on Digi-Key. Yeah, the S2 is, yeah. Yeah, definitely search on Digi-Key. I think Lamar might even have a, what do you call it? A great search video on the YouTube playlist. So you can search for that. Oh, you got it. You got it. Yeah, there you go. Yeah, you can get it from one of the 80 fruit feathers. Yeah, the 80 fruit ESP32 feather should have those. The vertical style. The latest feather is the S3, ESP32 S3. That one has a vertical header. I'm actually looking at my camera feed over here and this one has it as well. Oh, a lot of them do. Yeah, a lot of them do now. Just because it's so great for space constraints. So like that right there has it. See if I can, there you go.  So there you go. Yep, they come in. Yeah, this is the, this is the S2 ESP32 S2 reverse TFT from last week. So that one has it. Yeah. Cool, good question. And if you wanna pick up any from the shop, don't forget there's 10% off coupon code is valid for the whole day of 24 hours. So IOT new pixels is it. All right, gonna go back over to the Discord and pretty much gonna close out the show. We have show and tell tonight hosted by John Park. So JP will be hosting tonight's show and tell. Come on by at around 725 ish PM Eastern time. And JP will throw this StreamYard link into the Discord chat room. So folks from the community can join. We hope to see you there. I think I'll skip it this week. Pedro, you can come on if you'd like. But... I don't know what I'll show off. I'll show off something. Okay. Cool. Yep, Tahit's got some of the cream ones. Very nice. Good stuff. Thanks everybody for joining us today. And anyone else watching? Did you hear that? No? I had Siri. I have a HomePod and Siri was like, today is October 22nd. I don't know. I said, seriously?  I'm like, seriously? Siri comes up. Siri starts talking. No, I don't want you. I don't know if I can deactivate Siri on the HomePods, but if anyone knows how, I should probably research it.  When I deactivate. I can't do that. Sorry, Tom, I can't do that. All right, well, thank you everybody. We'll see you tonight on Show and Tell, hopefully. I'll be watching. And yeah, that's gonna do it for us. There'll also be another 10% discount code during the Ask an Engineer with Lamar and Phil, which starts at 8 p.m. Eastern time, back-to-back shows. And then JP is on tomorrow at same JP channels. And then Friday is a foamy guy livestream. But you could always check out the Discord. There's a pin. You could also put Showtime, I think. Yeah, Showtime still work. So you could always do that or check out the pin. And be sure to join that Discord channel so everybody can say hello and share off. Share what you're working on. Don't forget to follow Eat A Fruit and follow me on all the socials up there. Up there in the purple. The name is the same across all of the socials. And remember, see some behind the scenes stuff and all that cool stuff we're working on. And with all that said, don't forget to make a great day. Make a great day. Bye, folks. Bye-bye.


So my name is Darshak Sanghavi. I am a pediatric cardiologist. I still see patients. And I also am a columnist for Slate. I write about health care issues and a variety of other types of work in payment and systems reform delivery, both at the federal level and with other folks in this area. But I wanted to just take a minute and have both Dieter and Rebecca just introduce themselves. Say just briefly a little bit about their backgrounds before we get started. I'm Rebecca Sobel. I am a professor of medicine and obstetrics and gynecology at the Keck School of Medicine of the University of Southern California. And I am the president of the American Society for Reproductive Medicine, which is a large organization of health professionals that are interested in reproduction. Good afternoon. My name is Dieter Egli. I'm an assistant professor at Columbia University. And I'm a senior research fellow at the New York Thames Hall Foundation Research Institute. And my work in my laboratory aims to use human excels to develop new treatments for incurable diseases and to advance new infertility treatments. Terrific. Well, I think that if our panel is charged with trying to understand where babies will come from in the future, that's interesting just to talk a little bit about where babies come from now and what do we actually know about the process of development, and what are the ways in which that can be affected. So I was hoping maybe, Rebecca, you can give us just a little bit of background. This is a clinician. Tell us a little bit about, well, when people currently achieve pregnancy, how often just naturally do problems occur, and what are the ways in which we can currently affect that course? So first of all, I should tell you that I actually am an expert in male reproduction. So we do need to bring the male into this picture. And so I'll start out by saying that approximately one out of every eight couples experience some element of infertility. Of that one out of every eight couples, it's said that 40% is pure male factor infertility, 40% female infertility. And the remainder is what I refer to as additive infertility, which each member of the couple brings some aspect of infertility and makes it much more difficult for them to get pregnant. And if you'll just indulge me for a minute, I have been in the field for quite some time. We don't have to go into exact details. But when I first started out training to be an endocrinologist, certainly IVF was just in its beginning. And I actually was at the University of California at Los Angeles at that time when we had the first pregnancy of an egg donor. This was revolutionary. And up until that time, and when I first started out in this field, it was not uncommon for a couple to come with an evaluation for infertility and have had the wife, which at that time was the usual norm, have gone through perhaps a laparotomy, through surgery in order to see whether or not she had a problem. And the man had never had a semen analysis. So the first thing I can say is we've made great progress in that area. So at least now, one of the absolute beginning evaluations for infertility is having a semen analysis done. And so that's a relatively non-invasive and easy test to do. And so that's where we've come from with regard to the male. As far as the female is concerned, having gone the development through in vitro fertilization has been extraordinary. We then were able to proceed on to have egg donation. Over the years, clinicians and scientists have been very careful about evaluating the efficacy of doing that, the ethics of doing that, and had really refined it into being a very efficient and relatively safe, quite safe approach to trying to help couples become pregnant. As far as the male is concerned, unfortunately, we still don't know very much about the male. We now know we can take sperm out of the testes. We can use that in an in vitro fertilization setting. But in reality, we don't know how to treat the majority of men who have infertility. So that's my overview of where we are now. So it sounds like infertility is quite common. It seems like it concerns both men and women. And we've come a long way in how to treat it. And I think that one of the other things that's worth mentioning, as we had talked about before, is roughly several percent out of 100 individuals who actually achieve a pregnancy, several percent of them, actually today will have a birth defect of some type, leading to major issues or even death. And Dieter, I know that one of the things you've been interested in is how can we help families that might have rare genetic diseases? So normally the egg and sperm get together, the DNA mixes, but that's not all it is. There's other genetic material as well. And I wonder if you could just talk briefly about sort of some of the diseases you work on and the innovative ways that really it takes three people actually to have a baby sometimes. So yes, we have the egg, we have the sperm. And as you know, the question of this panel is where do babies come from? And I think we all know the answer to that question. It's an egg and the sperm. And I think I'm certain that it will remain that way. This is not something as scientists we will change or actually are able to change. So as a scientist it's both important to convey what's gonna be possible, but also what the limitations are because this removes certain fears that might be present. Because as we start to do things to those cells, we kind of feel that we are touching something that we haven't touched yet. And the egg is a very special cell that we know each of us kind of feel if we do something to that cell, we're doing something very basic to human identity and who we are as a human species. What we are able to do is not affect that we come from an egg and the sperm, but the ways we can do that. And so IVF is the prime example and this has led to a remarkable revolution in infertility treatments. And so what my lab does is we can manipulate human eggs. I do that myself in the laboratory. We can manipulate human eggs and we can take out the genome, the nuclear genome from one egg and put it into another egg. So these are now, egg donation was mentioned as a keyword here. A woman has an inheritable disease and that inheritable disease is transmitted through the egg. And so by doing such an exchange, transferring the genome from one egg to the other, we should be able to prevent the transmission of that disease. And so these diseases are caused by mutations in a part of the cell which is called the mitochondria. These convey energy that we have. You know, you just had lunch so you're now using your mitochondria to generate cellular energy. That's what we need to walk around. And if these mitochondria are affected, then you maybe have a very severe disease. It's usually lethal. These are not very common, but it cannot possibly also affect in more subtle ways all of us. And so that treatment that we intend to do, it's not a clinical reality yet, but it's developing from these emerging technologies in IVF is to transfer the genome from one egg that has these abnormal mitochondria into the egg of someone else who has normal mitochondria. And then that woman would be able to have a genetically related child, but without the disease. And for some people that's important to have a child who has their inherited material in them and they would prefer to have a child like that. So it sounds like what you're talking about is that to avoid disease, you can take the nucleus of an egg from the biological mother who plans to carry the child, use the cytoplasm of the rest of the egg from somebody else and then add a sperm to it. So that's the three part. But one of the things I've been interested in is we can now, we now know many things about a fetus's genetic material. In the past, to find out if your child had a genetic disease, maybe a mitochondrial disease possibly, it might be more difficult, Down syndrome or others, the way it was done is by getting a sample of DNA from the fetus through either CVS where they take a little piece of that or through amniocentesis. These are pretty invasive ways of getting that. Today, we can get genetic material from a woman carrying a fetus by doing a blood test and soon we'll be able to potentially even do a full genome analysis of that. Do you think this is a good thing? Is this information helpful in today's day and age and do you expect that this will be helpful in the future or do you think that this kind of information leads us down a path of increasing confusion? I'll take it two different steps. First of all, I think that it's a step forward. If you don't have to perhaps traumatize the fetus by having an amniocentesis or a biopsy, then I can't imagine why anybody would be opposed to that. And so it makes it, it's preferable because it's less invasive and it can be done earlier if a person wants to make a decision based on those results. And we're still really looking for single deletion diseases. We're looking for chromosomal abnormalities. And as time goes on, maybe we'll be identifying more types of major defects that a baby might have. The question on whether or not we should be doing the whole genome analysis and what we're going to do with that information, I certainly don't have the answer to that. It's a very controversial issue. What are you gonna do with the information? And what are you gonna tell your child when your child is born about that information and how are you going to intervene? Now I can say that a lot of geneticists who are interested in this field will say that this is giving you an opportunity to know exactly what kind of genetic abnormalities might occur. You have a decision as an individual whether or not you want to carry that pregnancy to term. But if you know that and you have the knowledge and you want to prepare for having such a child, this is very valuable information because it alerts the pediatrician.  So, and the other obviously is that you're manipulating life and nobody should do any of those things which is at the other extreme. One of the things that also parents sometimes want is that feeling as Liza was talking about of having a child who sort of resembles them in some way while they're physically or culturally or share some traits. And the other thing that many parents want is a child that's healthy. That's sort of what drives a lot of this kind of work especially the work deed or you're doing. The thing about health is that it's very hard to predict as we talked about a large number of individuals that have diseases which aren't even genetic. I'm a pediatric cardiologist. Turns out most heart defects, you can do all the gene tests you want. We're not gonna be able to tell you if that child's gonna have a heart defect. And that's the most common major congenital defect. So my question is do we think that genetic manipulation in some way is really going to be where we stop or at some point do you think that we will now move on our research to not only look at genetic material but to sort of make changes to a fetus when they're in the womb for other reasons, the way they develop? Or is that something we should pursue? So hard question but I think this is sort of where we're going. We've started to change genes. What about adding other physical characteristic capabilities that are not genetic? So that genetic question is of course a very sensitive one. And one that needs to be considered very carefully. There's also very considerable reservations in the public in general to do anything to the genes. Because again, if we modify genes off the germ line, in particular, we don't know how this will affect our species and how it really touches a nerve. And so it needs to be an important, it is very important to have a discussion like this one I think. At the same time, we just talked about the genes in those mitochondrial disease. One thing that needs to be pointed out is that human reproduction works with combining genes together. That's inherent nature of human reproduction. So this fear of genes is an irrational one. We have two parents, we have four grandparents and so on, eight great grandparents. We are new combinations of these genes. And essentially what IVF does when we combine a sperm and an egg is we combine genes. So there are genetic changes that go on. And this technique that I just referred to, the mitochondrial treatment, to prevent that disease combines those genes that are here that some of us carry within us. And so this is very, very different from what we can today do in animals for research. We can modify the genome of a mouse in a very precise way, modify a property so the mouse has a certain gene is mutated. Usually it's one that we want to study relevant for human disease. And also you all are familiar with the genetically modified plants. Whether whole foods should sell these or not, whether they should be labeled or not. This is not what we are talking about. Very clearly, though some may tell you, despite better knowledge, that what you're doing is genetic manipulation, this is not the case. What reproduction does is combine genes that are existing in the human population and this is exactly being done what we can do today. And that's a very separate discussion whether we should be modifying the genome in any type of way. Now, as adults, we have something called gene therapy. So if somebody has a disease, like cystic fibrosis or an immune system disorders, because a certain gene is missing, we have the technology to put that gene into those cells in the adult body and potentially cure that disease or at least improve the condition. These cells as we, when we pass away, these cells will go away too. So this is not passed on to the next generation. So it's called somatic gene therapy. There is no consensus or no agreement that any of those technologies should be used on the germline today. And it's my personal opinion that it shouldn't. Let me push on that a little bit. So we can tell you today based on genetic analysis if your child, and suppose you had a child who had cystic fibrosis previously who passed away, sickle cell anemia, a variety of other genetic diseases. Through a technology pre-implantation genetic diagnosis, you can take one of the cells of an embryo and see whether that embryo is affected. Why would you not wanna fix that gene? Because the only technology we have today is either not to implant that embryo at all or potentially check for those defects when a woman is 17 to 20 weeks pregnant and recommend termination. If I may just add to that, you may want to add more to it, but I, you know, the techniques we have- I'm sorry to recommend, but at least offer. Offer, sorry. The techniques we have to do these genetic changes by extracting DNA manipulating in the laboratory are not perfect. So when we take, or when we manipulate those genes in an embryo is a low chance, but the chance is there that we may modify something else that we don't know about. So this is not the case for the mitochondrial therapy that I just talked about, but this is the case if we use these, they're called crispers. They can cut the genome and then you can insert a new piece of DNA in there. Theoretically it is possible to do such modifications. I don't think the technique is mature enough to apply that to something that's potentially being transmitted to the next generation, but I think the technique is mature enough to do it on the soma, the body that will not be passed on to the next generation. One of the things I know is that parents, I have two kids, we tend to really wanna do everything we can to ensure the health and safety of our children. As a pediatric cardiologist, I'm aware of that because only 50 years ago when children had major heart defects, the way the first surgeries were done, which bothers my mind to this day, was people had not invented bypass machines.  So we would dissect out arteries and veins from the parent connected to the child, anesthetize the child while you were living bypass circuit. High risk, you can only imagine. Walt Lillaha, who did some of the first surgery, said it was one of the only procedures where the mortality could be 200%. You would not only lose a healthy child, potentially a healthy one. So I say that because that seems inconceivable to some people, but many parents say, yeah, I see where those parents are coming from. I would do anything for my child. So what I wanted to talk about or maybe touch on here is that once these technologies are available, should we be restricting them in some way until society is ready? As you said, you're concerned about germline changes, but many parents would feel that they're ready to try that now. Or do you feel that we should let sort of a thousand flowers bloom, so to speak? Well, first of all, I would wanna come back a little bit to the fact that we're talking about a very small portion number of babies that are being born or would be born in the population. So that's the first thing. I mean, we're only talking about doing PGD in general for looking for specific diseases that we already know are running in those families, and those families really would not like to have their children have that disease because they had a brother or sister who suffered from that disease and felt that that was what they wanted to do. In those particular cases, if the technique were advanced enough that it would not be, as Dieter said, a possibility of having a more abnormal child than with your intervention, I mean, you might wanna offer that to somebody like that, but so that we have to remember the average person in the future is still gonna be having in general for the majority of the population intercourse to have their baby. And so that means until we have been able to develop a technique to be, without having to do an invasive procedure like IVF in order to be able to do these therapeutic interventions for hair and eye color and everything else everybody is worried about, that means you have to do something quite invasive. And so I think it's not something that I don't think that's the future of reproduction, but that is my personal opinion. Did you want to say something? Yeah, of course, yes. Rebecca is on the Ethics Committee of ASRM as well. And so these organizations that advance new treatments, they all have ethical reviews. And so we have people from the FDA here. We have all the necessary bodies to discuss these things. And I consider this one also an important one. And so there is a process of advancing such new treatments, which is a good thing. There needs to be some form of guidance. We are in the city of lawmakers, so I think that there probably should be also some laws, but they should be done very carefully. And I think in the past very often what we have done is to be afraid of the research. And it has affected me personally because I've made my career in stem cell research and when I was in Massachusetts in 2005 to 2008, we tried to do some of these experiments, but we simply couldn't because there was this innate fear of working with human eggs. And of course, this is a very special cell, the human egg, and deserves all respect when working with such precious material. But there needs to be one of the most understudied types of cells despite being so important. And it is because we have to overcome that fear of doing the research and advancing new treatments. And I think that's an important point and there have been laws that have inhibited that and some of them are still in place today and I wish they wouldn't be there. So because we couldn't do these experiments at Harvard University in Massachusetts that actually moved to New York in 2008, so I could do work on human excels. And I think it was an important lesson that research should be allowed because since then we have, I would say, done quite remarkable progress. Can I say something? You know, in to follow up with Dieter just said, I always tell my medical students and my fellows that in resonance that I'm teaching that they need to read a book about Semmelweis who was a Hungarian physician in Austria who did what was considered to be outrageous suggestion that you should wash your hands between the time you do the autopsy and the time you deliver babies. And that that was the primary cause for postpartum death. He was so maligned and was basically driven out of town, ended up dying in an insane asylum because he went, as they say, mad at the time. And so it's important to remember, along with what you're saying, is you can't be afraid of things that are suggested which might be appropriate medical interventions in the future because you don't know what might be happening in the future. I think it's important to remain open-minded and I think Semmelweis is the absolute perfect example of when you decide to close your mind and you're to the detriment of the population that you're taking care of. So to that term, one of the things I'm sort of struck by is how do we talk about these technologies and even this forum, you know, we bring up, like I think there's a panel about Gatica, like where babies are sort of manipulated and it sort of has this sinister undercurrent, oh, we're manipulating these. But there's a whole other way to look at it as well which is we're helping individuals live healthy lives and actually helping families live, achieve healthy pregnancies as well. What I wanted to maybe just touch on now is is there a way that we need to change how we talk about this in some way where we don't focus on these sort of very unusual and sort of sinister ways of using technology and instead talk about sort of the everyday benefits that maybe they could offer. I'd love to hear sort of both your thoughts on this as well. So I think one thing as a scientist we convey what we can do and what will be possible and all these amazing technologies and the title where babies will come from implies that they will come suddenly from somewhere else and they come today. But yes, there are very important developments that will help people. I'm convinced of that. But there are some fundamental limitations nature has put in place. And I just need to reassure you of those limitations. As a scientist, we're not just suddenly gonna turn the world upside down and people will look very different. Just recently I received the question on Twitter, will this change our identity as human beings what you're doing? That was addressed to me. And so the answer is no. Fundamentally what we do, we will enable new treatments. There are exciting developments but I also need to point to the limitations of these developments. So for that mitochondrial therapy is we will be able to prevent mitochondrial disease in those families but we will not be able to predict exactly how that baby will look like. No more than we can today by natural reproduction. And so this inherent uncertainty of human reproduction will still be there. There are things we will not be able to predict. And also as Rebecca pointed out, most of human reproduction will remain the way it has always been. And I think most all hospitals has ethics committees. Certainly the American Society for Reproduction has an ethics committee. The American College of Obstructions and Gynecology. I think every single major academic organization has ethics committees. I am indeed, as because I'm the president of the organization, I am on the ethics committee for part of my tenure. And these committees are very thoughtful and they are made up of people from all walks. In our particular ethics committee, there are attorneys, there's ethicists, there's REIs, there's male reproduction specialists. There are many different areas of expertise that are brought and they're very thoughtfully discussed and the documents that are produced are read over by the, are actually given to the entire organization in our situation to make comments about before it goes back out. And I think that's true for probably every academic or medical organization around.  So I think that will be okay because people are concerned and the conversation should continue so that people are on the alert that there's oversight. I think that to touch on that though, there will always be a tension between freedom and regulation. For example, in India, it is my understanding is it's illegal to do an ultrasound to determine the sex of a baby, which here is a normal expectation. Many people want to know the sex of a baby and the reason is that there, there's a strong preference for a certain sex child and they're worried that this could lead to termination and obviously there's an entire black market industry of individuals who will do ultrasounds on children there. So we may look at that in the US and say, you know, that's pretty, that's really kind of different, I don't get that. But you can look over here even and say, well, how do we feel about that? We permit that, right? You could in the United States today determine the sex of a child and choose not to have that child. So there is this sort of, we accept that freedom or that ability to make a choice, but because it gives the opportunity to potentially take advantage of these technologies as well and it'll always be a little bit of a balance. Do you sort of see that balance though, understanding their ethics committees and things like that, tipping though a little bit towards sort of creating a system where some things people do still make us feel a little uncomfortable? I mean, I've been on ethics committees, you know, you feel like, people talk a lot, but sometimes you don't really get at these kinds of issues. I think there will always be issues that people feel uncomfortable about and I don't think it's only about reproduction.  So I would hope there would always be that tension because if there's not a tension and people become complacent about how life is going on, then I think it's then that it's much more likely that things that might be done, that should not be done or being done. So I would hope that there would always be such a tension. Yes. Do we have, I wasn't sure if we are supposed to have a little time for questions now, so I wanted to make sure that we left that for the group here too. Should I be in charge of picking people or do you wanna? Oh, no, I just, sorry. Why don't we start there and then next we'll go to you in the front here. Yeah, I just had a question for Dr. Egley. You mentioned at the beginning of your comments that the way we reproduce, it's a sperm and an egg cell and there's nothing that scientists will do to change that, but there is a method that could be used to change that somatic cell nuclear transfer. Take a somatic cell, the nucleus and transfer it to an egg. There's no sperm involved. You end up with an embryo that is genetically related to one person or maybe a second person with the mitochondrial DNA. Of course, I think you have done a little bit of research on this yourself with the human egg cells and somatic cell nuclear transfer creating these embryos. Do you really think that this is something that could never be used to produce children or is there no reproductive implications of creating these embryos or how do you respond to this? Great question, thank you. Glad I get the chance to talk about this. So yes, this is one of my major research focus in my laboratory. So again, we exchange the genome of one egg and here we don't exchange it with the genome of another egg, we exchange it with the somatic cell of a patient. As I've done that for a type I diabetes patient. And so we made those stem cells after that transfer. The egg is just such a remarkable cell because it can make all cells of the body and it made all of us. So I mean it's amazing. And when we do that transfer, that egg cell restores that developmental ability to that somatic genome of that patient. So our bodies as we get older cannot do everything anymore. And for a body of a type I diabetic, they don't have those insulin producing beta cells. So this offers is a remarkable opportunity to make these cells again and they're essentially the patient's own cell. So these kind of manipulations will allow to make matched cells for a person. These will allow treatments for a patient with a specific disease, very personalized. I understand this is gonna be still far into the future but I think this is what people want. If you had a disease, what would you want to be treated with? Would you want the drug that maybe keeps you dependent for a lifetime? Or would you choose your own cells for treatment? You probably would choose your own cells. So let's make it possible. And I think this is one of the things that Washington can help with and we need that. And people want it, so let's do it. Regarding reproductive use of those cells is nothing I ever would consider nor I think it would be appropriate. And again I think here the FDA and perhaps other agencies play an important role. It has to do with the considerations of safety and medical safety. And so we found that if you look at those stem cells they have some defects in genes that are have to do with imprinting. And imprinting is a certain way genes are expressed whether they come from the father or the mother. And if this is misregulated it can lead to severe birth defects. And we know that this is happening when animals are cloned. So the answer, the FDA, Dr. Schneider will talk later today. The answer they will give us is no. So it's good we have those bodies. I think they are important and necessary. And as the researchers, of course responsible conduct is requested not to step outside of those boundaries. But in my opinion and in my view is that we do, we do that. With your mitochondrial therapy does the child essentially have three parents? Again a wonderful question. Thank you for that opportunity. So I don't have children but some of the men here do. And I assume you do.  Do you consider yourself less of a father because you didn't contribute to mitochondrial DNA? Probably not. There may be other reasons why somebody considers himself less of a parent. Maybe, I mean the woman certainly contributed a lot to the birth of that child. From the pregnancy to many other things. But as a father, you contribute your nuclear genome and very often the child may resemble you. Perhaps even more than people might say wow this child is just like that. And so there is no, as a society we don't make a difference whether we contribute to mitochondrial DNA or not. We assume equal responsibility for that child. And so there's so many other layers from the nuclear genome to feeling empathy to that person or feeling part of the family that essentially I think don't think there is room for somebody that the contribution of the mitochondrial genome is neither necessary nor sufficient to claim parenthood. So there's still just two parents. My name is Roberta Stanley. I work in K-12 public education and I really appreciate the conversation day all the way I have to say scientifically it's out of my league and that's where I bring my question forth. This is a high brow thoughtful discussion. How do we communicate this information as we move to the future so that the general public and even the Congress and our leaders understand it because people tend to jump to conclusions and off the path and so to speak. How would you develop a communication strategy to spread the word? I think we touched on this to some extent but let's get into it a little bit more. Maybe my feeling is that I think that people also instinct will require even from the term like a communication strategy about somebody. So I think part of maybe what I would do is for us to think about how do we tell the stories of people who benefit from this type of technology in ways that resonate with everyday experience. And I think that's a complicated question. I'd love to hear sort of maybe, I don't know if this is getting at what you're saying but how do we do that? Like how do we sort of take the conversation away from these sort of very rare, unusual, highly charged cases? You know, I love the question. When I was, on my sabbatical, I went and got a master's in public health in health communication. And I think there's a big movement forward now to try to go into the school systems and to educate the teachers and the students about this kind of science and bring it to that level. And I think that's the way it has to be done. I think that physicians and scientists have to train how to communicate to people who are other than just scientists. And I know that there are many medical schools now which have set up health communication programs for their residents so that when they're, I went on one with their patients. I mean, goes up and beyond the school. I mean, patients can sit down with their physician and walk out and have not a clue what that physician was trying to tell them. So I think it actually behooves our centers who are training scientists and who are training physicians that they should be able to communicate with their patients. They should volunteer to go into the schools to teach about this. And I think that educators should also have the opportunity to be, you know, you guys go have, you have training, teacher training sessions, right? Don't you, workshops and things like that? I don't want to step outside of my bounds here, but yes.  And interestingly in New York, there's the Allen Alde Center for Communication up at SUNY New York. And that center is really a pioneering center in sending, going to medical schools, training people and public policy people how to communicate issues such as Ebola. So hopefully there's a movement in that direction. I'm sure it's gonna take a while for it to have an impact. But at least I know for a fact the medical schools are definitely thinking about how to do that. Although I have to say, as somebody who's writing in the case you first late, there is nothing better than a headline that says in the future we're all gonna have three parents. But you're right, that there is always gonna be this temptation to sensationalize, particularly in the day and age where we live today, given how difficult this get information out. Next question, sort of in the back. Yes, hello. I was wondering how you do think about the second woman involved, the egg donor. How do I think about in the mitochondrial? Oh, okay. Maybe I could just declare, when you say how do you think about her, talk about what you're getting at a little bit more. So far we know that there is a second woman involved from whom eggs are being extracted in a relatively intrusive procedure. And we know she's not a parent. I was just wondering what she is. So we already have that. We have, as Rebecca alluded to, maybe 20, 30 years ago, when were the first egg donations being done? 19, oh, we have to say this, 1983. 1983. We have all forms of parenthood where not everybody is equally related to the child. In this case, we have adoption and yet we know that people can feel like they are the parents. They are not genetically the parents, but they are the parents. Then we have egg donation, where one woman donates her eggs and the woman carrying the baby is not genetically related to that child at all. It's from the husband's partner sperm and the egg of that other woman. And so that's a much bigger difference than what we are talking about right here with the mitochondria. And then we have other forms of where we have the genes of other people within us, like organ transplantation. And so these are well-accepted technologies. I think what this is a lot about is when I first started working on this, I had to overcome my own fears, my own concerns about touching a cell like the human egg. It's one of the most important cells in the body. And these fears are there with stem cell research as well. Big reservations, should we be doing this? Should we be doing anything to those cells? But I think these are somehow within us and have been there in the past for other things like in the middle ages, it wasn't possible to dissect the diseased body, but now we know that this has enabled many treatments that we now enjoy. And I see stem cell research very much in the same way today. It will be transformed many aspects of medicine, what we are doing with those cells. And I think we will enjoy those treatments in the future. We have just about a minute or so left. So any final thoughts you'd like to leave the audience with before we- I think that the audience needs to be open-minded to taking in what is being done and to think deeply about the impact of what is being done in the science field and remain open-minded about how it may well be a revolutionary treatment in the future. Thank you very much.


Hello friends, and how are you all doing today? The question says find the sum of first 30 terms of an AP whose second term is 2 and Seventh term is 22 So let us start with our solution We are given That the second term of an AP that we see that A2 is given to us as 2 and The seventh term of an AP is given to us as 22 we can say that here A2 can be written as a plus t which is given to us as 2 Which can further implies that the value of a is equal to 2 minus d let this be the first equation Similarly for this we can write that a plus 6d is given to us as 22 This implies that the value of a is 22 minus 6d Let this be the second equation since the first term of an AP is same for the both the cases therefore on equating 1 and 2 we have 2 minus d equal to 22 minus 6d Which implies 2 minus 22 is equal to minus 6d plus d which further implies minus 20 is equal to minus 5d and The value of t comes out to be 4 now on substituting the value of d in any of these equation We can have the value of a which means the value of a is 2 minus 4 that is minus 2 now we need to find out the sum of first 30 Terms of an AP whose first term is minus 2 and the difference is 4 So we can find the sum that is SN where n is 30 equal to 1 by 2 n that is 30 2 a that is minus 2 Plus n that is 30 minus 1 into d Now we need to solve it where the formula was if n is equal to 1 by 2 n 2 a plus n minus 1 d in this formula we have substituted all these values And what we need to do next is we just need to simplify it using the concept of word mass We have 15 into minus 4 plus 1 1 6 will give us the value as 1 1 2 and their product comes out to be 1 6 8 0 So the answer to this session is 1 6 8 0 that is the sum of the first 30 terms of an arithmetic Progression whose second term is 2 and the seventh term is 20 second Right, so hope you understood it well do kitty do keep do take care of your calculations and have a nice day