Daily Tech News show is made possible by its listeners, thanks to all of you, including Tim Deputy, Brandon Brooks, and Hector Bones. Coming up on DTNS, guests are apparently paying to be on podcasts. Not us, but some podcasts. Are we okay with that? Plus, MIT scientists discover why your network congestion is bad and the things you need to know to navigate the continuing chip shortage. This is the Daily Tech News for August 4th, 2022. Today, maybe Thursday. I don't know. In Los Angeles, I'm Tom Merritt. From Studio Redwood, I'm Sarah Lane. It is Thursday. Deep in the heart of Texas, I'm Justin Robert Young. And I'm the show's producer on this Thursday, Roger Chang. The Thursdayest of Thursdays. Let's start with a few tech things you should know. Back in 2019, Google claimed quantum supremacy after its quantum computer called Sycamore performed a computation in 200 seconds that the company said would otherwise take a classic computer 10,000 years to complete. Wow. Sounds crazy, right? Well, now, Pan Zhang, a statistical physicist at the Institute of Theoretical Physics at the Chinese Academy of Sciences and colleagues have shown how to do that same computation in a few hours and believe that with a supercomputer, not necessarily a quantum computer, they could do it faster than how fast Sycamore did it. In a paper printed at physical review letters, they described how they recast to the problem as a 3D mathematical array called a tensor network, simulating the quantum computers method. Sycamore still required fewer operations and less power than a classical computer would. But Zhang suggests that quantum computing needs to find real-world applications to demonstrate quantum advantage. China's Alibaba reported revenue did not grow year over year in Q1 for the first time ever, but it didn't grow, but it didn't fall. An analyst expected it to fall. Alibaba attributed COVID lockdowns to the problem, but noted that recovery appearing in June is probably going to turn things around for them. Retail sales fell 1%, cloud computing rose 10%, and speaking of cloud computing and related news, Salesforce announced it was shutting down its offices in Hong Kong and accelerating its partnership with Alibaba, the exclusive provider of Salesforce software in greater China. Folks in South Korea, Japan, Hong Kong, and Taiwan can now reserve Valve's Steam Deck through the website Komodo. Valve says the first batch of reservations in these markets will be fulfilled by the end of the year, and Valve doesn't expect the addition of these markets to affect the delivery estimates for those who are already on hold with an existing reservation. Meta CEO Mark Zuckerberg announced international expansion of NFT support on Instagram following Instagram's initial NFT test launch in May with select creators in the US, users and businesses in more than 100 countries in Africa, Asia-Pacific, the Middle East, and the Americas can now share their NFTs on Instagram. Meta also announced that Coinbase Wallet and Dapper Wallet are now accepted as third-party wallet-compatible for use, and Instagram is also expanding its supported blockchains to include Flow. What if you don't own an NFT, though, Tom? Well, get in there and get one. I guess I should, yeah. Board Ape Club. Good time to buy. Why is market? It would be indeed. Reuters reports that Tencent, which acquired a 5% stake in Ubisoft in 2018, is reportedly trying to buy an additional 16% stake held by the Guillemot family who co-founded and still run Ubisoft. This would make Tencent Ubisoft's single largest shareholder. You might say, well, okay, I get where they're going with that. The other 80% of Ubisoft is publicly owned, and Tencent is reportedly looking to acquire shares in that pool as well. All right. Let's talk a little bit about podcasts. You're listening to one. You probably like them. Lately, we here at DTNS have been getting a more frequent kind of spam. Somebody asking us how much would it cost to be a guest on your show? To be clear, nothing. DTNS never gets paid to put someone on the show. That's a policy we have. We pay people, our contributors, those people that you see on our About Us page, and our guests come on for free. Our guests come on and we let them plug whatever they're doing. But we do not pay people. We do not get paid to put people on the show. Now, Bloomberg's Ashley Karman has an article up that says podcast guests are being paid up to $50,000 to appear on popular shows. Karman says the practice is particularly common in the wellness, cryptocurrency, and business arenas. A platform called Guestio, brokers paid guest appearances claiming podcasters have been paid $300,000 since 2020. Sometimes they are people paying to be guests, but Guestio also brokers podcasts paying the guests to appear. For example, Boxer Manny Pacquiao charges $15,000 for an appearance. Okay, that's fair for Manny Pacquiao to charge for that. And a lot of this is not different from what creators on YouTube and TikTok do. They get paid to talk about a product. The difference is those platforms already went through the big controversy over disclosure. Now, when somebody's on YouTube paid to talk about something, they disclose it. They say, hey, this company sent me this thing, or this company is sponsoring this thing where I'm talking about it. Podcasting, though older, has not gone through that controversy. And disclosures vary depending on the episode. Sometimes they're clear, sometimes they're cleverly hid, and sometimes they're nonexistence. The USFTC says the same rules that apply to every platform like YouTube and TikTok apply to podcasting as well. You have to be clear about the source of a message, including whether somebody is paying to appear. So you might say, well, okay, at the point that it's disclosed, is it still a bad thing? And, you know, people differ in their opinions on this. John Lee Dumas, host of Entrepreneurs on Fire, told Bloomberg that guests who pay are better prepared, explaining they showed up on time, they delivered massive value, they had great giveaways and calls to action from my audience, and also the paid appearances are often part of an ad buy, and that can bring extra revenue to a show. Now, there's a difference between news and entertainment shows. For a show like we do, it's just not done to accept money for someone to show up, because you want to be clear that the people you are talking to don't have an interest in coloring their information one way or the other. That's a time-honored news tradition. NBC Nightly News, BBC World News, they generally, well, there are some exceptions, but they generally are not going to get paid to have somebody on the show. When you're talking about something that's a little less newsy, maybe it's more lifestyle-oriented, more independent, you know, less worried with, like, we want to try to get down to the facts, the lines start blurring. Justin, is there a case where, you know, like John Lee Dumas, where it's like, yeah, as long as we're clear about it, let's assume everybody's disclosing everything, maybe it's fine. I think it's totally fine. I think that we have a weird, a puritanical view of money as a barrier or preventer of authenticity, that it's going to be the antithesis of it. The reality for any kind of show that books regular guests, and I do think that if GTNS was a show that demanded a brand-new guest once every five days, you would eventually find yourself in a situation like I do on PX3, where I book a guest twice a week, where every once in a while the pile of unsolicited PR agents who are pitching you guests at all times, which I get, I don't have a gigantic show, but I get probably 30 pitches a day for guests, that every once in a while, you pick one. I had a guy, Evan Scribshaw, who is a betting, a political betting expert, his website, The Lines, paid a PR agent so they could reach out to people like me. If the money could go to me instead of the PR agent and I still like the guests, I don't know why that's bad. Yeah, I think the disclosure is really important and disclosures happen in many ways, especially in our new modern world. I think of, I don't know, if Future is paid to walk through a club in Atlanta for an hour and that he got paid to do it and gets his picture taken and people take pictures with him, whatever. It's like, okay, how different is this than that? And I think to your point, Tom, it depends on what you're talking about on the show. If I know that the future then gets paid to get on the podcast Drink Champs and kind of talk about the music industry and have some fun, that doesn't bother me. If he was on our show to talk about the future of crypto because he ends up being an investor in a crypto company and that's not disclosed in a way that makes us feel comfortable, that's a totally different story. Yeah, I think it has to do with, are you able to do what you're saying you're doing, right? And if I just want to like talk to a fun guy and they pay to be on the show, then sure, that might be fine. If I'm promising to you as the listener, I'm going to get to the bottom of what this person says and tell you whether it's true or not and they're paying me, well, I'm less incentivized. But those aren't the guests that, you know, according to the article, are really getting picked up. You're looking for expertises in areas that might be interesting or illuminating, right? And that's where the cryptocurrency and the wellness stuff is. Is you are looking for people that are trying to think differently and they're pitching themselves with those ideas. So you are effectively asking somebody to explain their worldview and, you know, greases the wheels a little bit. Yeah. If a new she gets to where to speak. Now, you should know when those guests come on to pitch their wellness products that the host, if the person is paying to be on, is probably not going to be as critical of them. And that's fine. You just should know this is going to be a friendly interview because they're paying to be on the show. I mean, maybe, but I guess it's more likely. It's more likely to be friendly. It kind of depends on if the podcast host or the guest is the bigger celebrity. But also it's like, look, in reality, not every interview is Frost Nixon. You know, you're not trying to get something out of somebody. Right. That's what I mean. I don't think that torches the value of it, but you should know like, oh, they may not have asked all the hard questions. And maybe that's fine. Maybe that doesn't even matter. Maybe I'm just curious what the thing is at all, which case you probably got it. Unless it's investment advice or, you know, it starts to get. Yeah. Well, let's talk about network congestion, shall we? Boy. I know network congestion is not fought by bandwidth caps, although some ISPs will tell you otherwise instead by algorithm. So your computer doesn't know the optimal speed to send packets. Your computer does its best, but maybe the packets are going too slow. Then you're not making the best use of the network. Maybe they're too fast and you might instead overwhelm the network and that causes dropped packets. And that causes resends and overloads the whole system even more. So what to do? Congestion algorithms look at how many packets are getting dropped and need to be resented. That's used as a signal of the network's overall health. And the algorithm adjusts to how fast a computer sends data packets so that it optimally uses a network's capacity. But this doesn't always help. Yeah. The folks at MIT wanted to find out what the best algorithm for network congestion was. So they studied it and put out a paper called Starvation in End to End Congestion Control, showing that while these algorithms do help overall to ease congestion over the entire network, there will always, and this is the weird thing, in every algorithm they tested, always be a scenario where at least one sender receives no bandwidth when congestion is being managed. If you've ever been sitting next to somebody with the exact same cell provider as you, you both have the same number of bars, but their connection works and yours doesn't, there are multiple explanations for that. But one of them could be this, that this algorithm is like, you're the one that gets to lose so that everybody else gets better bandwidth. Now, the problem is because of packet delays being the measure. Packet delays aren't always caused by congestion. Sometimes they're caused by other things like delays in acknowledgement from the sending source or intentional packet queues that delay it on purpose because they're queuing up stuff. Stuff like this is often lumped under the term jitter. If you know the term jitter, that's what we're talking about. Algorithms can't tell the difference between congestion and jitter. Jitter causes the algorithms to make poor decisions and eventually that leads to the starving of somebody's bandwidth, albeit unintentionally. So the authors of the study figured, well, let's just test these algorithms and find out which one doesn't cause the problem. And that's what they did, right? Yeah, yes, they did. They created a computer model that accounted for it. Jitter and tested every congestion algorithm that they could find. Every one of them was delay convergent. So in other words, at some point, somebody's bandwidth got starved.  The only solution they found was to allow for more variance in delay, meaning not combating delay quite as strictly. The more variance they allowed, the less starvation overall. They hope to find an algorithm that can eliminate it entirely. So that's what we're working on at this point. The team will present their research at the ACM Special Interest Group on Data Communications Conference. Yeah, this is not going to have immediate practical effect on you. It's certainly not the only reason that you ever have bandwidth go out. There also might be a capacity problem on the pole near you if you're on 4G service or something like that. But it is a great way to help actually fix the problem of bandwidth congestion rather than some marketing oriented way like bandwidth caps. I think it's also just a great thing to know. You know, my wife and I were in Europe for the past three weeks and this happened constantly for us that we would both have the exact same phone, the exact same reception, the exact same network. And yet one of us was able to post the vacation picture to Instagram and the other one wasn't. And luckily it was usually me that won, if she just had a very algorithmically unlucky phone apparently. You know, it's a... Like I said, it could also be a capacity where you always got connected to the nearest cell service pole before she did and there just wasn't a good connection for her. It's funny that it does tend to be one person over the other. Eileen always gets connected when we're places and I don't. It's just the luck of the draw. Or is it the jitter?  I am. I am. Well, folks, if you're like, who's Eileen? Eileen's my wife, if you don't know. And she's going to be on the show next week. All next week is DTNS Experiment Week. We're swapping out our normal DTNS shows and we're trying out some new ideas. Last year we launched shows like Barbecue and Tech, The Tech John on Experiment Week and they went on to become their own shows. This year we've got Rob Dunwood and Rod Simmons with DTNS Reaction to Samsung's upcoming fold announcement. Nicole Lee will be doing a tech culture show from an Asian American perspective and that's the one my wife will be on. It all starts next week, Monday, August 8th, right here on the DTNS Feeds. Previously on The Chip Shortage. When lockdown swept the world, companies bet that folks would stop buying as many things, especially cars. As it turns out, folks bought a lot more things and returned to buying cars a lot faster than expected. The disruption to the normal patterns of shipping caused all kinds of problems and logistics, like too many cargo containers in one port and not enough in another. Shortages in components cause companies to try and stockpile parts buying more than they normally would, a.k.a. the toilet paper effect. Weather anomalies like the ice storms in Texas, droughts in Taiwan and fires in Japan complicated an already difficult situation. And then of course, the war started in Ukraine, disrupting supply chains even more. Inflation started changing consumption patterns again, which brings us to now, Tom, where are we? Companies are dealing with uneven component supplies, but full warehouses, hey, Best Buy and Target both said their warehouses are brimming, but they're expecting dwindling consumer demand and they're not the only one. Let's focus on two cases that point to where the chip market is going to be heading. First, automakers are going to be more involved in chip design, meaning better electronics in your car, but also higher costs. TSMC's CEO, C.C. Wei, told Reuters that he never once got a call from an auto executive until the shortage got bad. And then they were his best friends. Now car makers and chip makers are working side by side. This gives automakers more visibility into the supply chain, but it's going to cost them because they're participating. They're not just taking, they're not just placing orders. They're involved in the R&D process.  So parts suppliers like Bosch and Denso are spending an increasing amount of chip production, increasing amount on chip production. Companies like GM and Stellantis are taking part in chip design. Ford has struck a new deal with Global Foundries directly. Chipmaker called Skywater Tech is asking automakers to buy the equipment they're using to make the chips or pay for some of the R&D. Japan's Renesys Electronics and Dutch NXP Semiconductor are co-locating engineers to help automakers design new architecture from the ground up. That's going to give you better efficiency in your car. It's going to have a single chip that can control everything. It brings them closer to what Tesla's already been doing. Tesla already designs its own core chips, and it means there's going to be more chips in your cars. Reuters says the number of chips per car in 2026 is expected to be double what it was in 2020. So automakers have reached a new normal of their own with better but more expensive chip design. Sarah, tell us about case number two. Oh, Tom, I'm glad to do so. Reuters reports on a case that seems like a more straightforward effect.  Reuters also reports that Samsung scaled back production in Vietnam where it has six factories and two major hubs that put out around half of Samsung's smartphones. So they're doing a lot of inventory there. One campus in the north of the country can make around 100 million devices per year out of Samsung's total of 270 million. A worker at that campus told Reuters they're not only cutting overtime for workers but going down from six-day work weeks to four, sometimes three. Samsung told Reuters it isn't reducing its annual production target, but Reuters couldn't confirm if that meant it was shifting output to its Indian or South Korean plants or perhaps both. Managers told workers at the plant that the inventories are high, hence the reduction in output. So it may be that Samsung suddenly realizes it just has enough units to meet demand and demand is stagnant. Listeners to DTS know that you heard about the chip shortage early here. You probably heard about it before a lot of your friends. The takeaway on this story that we're doing here is that we may be headed for a glut of electronics in some sectors and higher costs in others, and sometimes you're going to have both. I think that this makes a lot of sense and probably is going to work out pretty well, at least for consumers in the areas where there are gluts, especially if we do go into a recession and people need to stretch their dollars even further than they already have with inflation. But what I'm fascinated about is the cars. Cars have certainly become more and more and more dependent on electronics, be it in cameras or various different displays. But to really double down on that, I think is fascinating. Yeah, and I think the silver lining for cars here is because they were forced to do it in order to get chips at all, to figure out how to make chips and to navigate the cost of them, I think you're going to see better designs. And if you've ever sat in a brand new car, I know not many of us do very often, but if you ever have and you're like, this is an impressive car, but the electronics seem kind of old. That's why carmakers just bought off the shelf old chips for the most part. Like we need a display controller. It doesn't have to be fancy. Now they are like literally co-locating engineers to be let's design the cabin electronics from the ground up. Let's design a chip that works the best for what we do and that way we can put a long-term order on it and make sure we have a supply of it. I mean, I will say as somebody who purchased a car over the last two years, more than I would like to admit because of how the electronics looked and functioned, I think this is a good idea for the modern consumer. Yeah, it's one of the reasons Tesla's are so impressive because they've done that work from the ground up. Well, speaking of the modern world, it seems like just a couple of weeks ago we were talking with Joel Telling, who was a guest on our show about the world of 3D printing. Where it's going? Because it was two weeks ago. Protocol has a great write up on how Hollywood is also embracing 3D printing in an interview with Dream Smith studio founder at Jacob Sniman, who tells the publication, he's wanted to use 3D printers to design props digitally instead of with clay and wire mesh for years. But the technology just wasn't ready for a long time. The printers he could afford weren't able to make the big enough props that he actually needed to make. Today's 3D printing is alive and well in Hollywood, however, with larger printers made by companies like Form Labs, there are others that are now in the budget for shops like Dream Smith. Sniman has been using Form Labs as 3D printers for props on both seasons of the HBO Max sci-fi series Raised by Wolves, RIP Raised by Wolves. It has been canceled, but needed a lot of 3D printing to make stuff come to life. For example, instead of creating a silicone mask of a human's face, that requires the actor to be there in person. It's cumbersome and time-consuming. 3D capture studios can make a digital mold and then the folks at Dream Smith can use those files to make molds that are accurate going forward. When I first saw this story, I thought it was going to be about props more than about modifications to the face, you know, molds and masks and things.  It makes perfect sense. And then 3D print whatever the mask is before they make them sit in the chair and put it on. And gives you such freedom for digital design. Yeah, right. You could design a bunch of different things, even try a few, see which one works best. Yeah. And have the time and energy to do that, which you didn't have before. That's great. That's great. Yeah. 3D printing sounds better and better all the time, even if you don't work in Hollywood. Well, let's check out the mail bag, shall we? Let's do it. So Doug wrote in about our conversation a couple days ago about risk five. Doug says, I've seen risk five being explored and developed by the big embedded semiconductor companies for a couple of use cases that are always apparent. One is for controls on really low end devices, smart sensors, smart motors, actuator drivers. These are often a lot less than $1 devices. They don't need much compute, computing power and are often used various legacy designs instead of arm anyway. Risk five avoids any licensing costs. Let's get them some compute performance improvements. And the hope is that with one open industry hardware standard, they'll get the volume needed to spur the creation of software tools from vendors instead of having to write all those tools in-house. The market isn't very sexy says Doug, but it's still worth many billions of dollars. Another use case is for the development of security cores and higher end system on a chips. These chips do use arm cores for main compute. They're not going to change because they benefit from the massive software industry that supports that, but there is talk of making the security cores for risk five in risk five for exactly the same reasons as people use for security software. Lots of eyes on it being able to share best practices, et cetera. Doug finishes up with saying not everything has to beat Intel in order to be profitable. Yeah, we had a good conversation with John Dvorak a couple of days ago about risk five. If you didn't catch that, go back and listen to that if you're interested in this sort of thing. And thank you, Doug, for sharing the additional insights on this is really helpful. Absolutely. If you have insights that you'd like to share with us, we would like to hear them. Feedback at Daily Tech News Show is where to send that email. Email us early and often. Also, Justin Robert Young, you better be here earlier and often because we missed you a lot over the last few weeks. You know, you had a great vacation, but let folks know where they can keep up with your work. Now that you're back in the saddle. Well, it is less than a hundred days until the midterms here in America. The can the campaigns are heating up. The primaries are winding down, which means you need to be listening to politics, politics, politics as you care about who you are going to vote for and whether or not the candidate that you love or hate is running a good or bad campaign. This is the place to find it politics, politics, politics, politics, politics wherever you find your podcast. Excellent. We also want to extend a special thanks to Mike Escusha. Mike, you are one of our top lifetime supporters for DTNS. You already know that, but now everyone else does too. Thank you for all the years of support. We really, really value the folks who stick with us over the years, like Mike does. Thank you. Thank you, Mike. Speaking of patrons, stick around for the extended show Good Day Internet. Will we talk about food? Probably. But we talk about all sorts of stuff. You can also catch this show. DTNS is live Monday through Friday at 4 p.m. Eastern, 2100 UTC. Find out more at dailytechnewshow.com slash live. And we're back doing it all again tomorrow, talking about Deep Mind's Alpha Fold with Dr. Nicky Ackermans. This show is part of the Frog Pants Network. Get more at frogpants.com. Diamond Club hopes you have enjoyed this program.


I'm Brian May live at the State Operations Center headquarters here at Cal OES and I just want to give you a quick update on where we stand with the fire conditions on this Tuesday and the news is good if we're talking about the fire. The weather continues to cooperate more so in Northern California that in Southern California red flag conditions pretty much over for the rest of the week for Northern California. There are some wind concerns in Southern California and we did have two new fires spot up overnight. The Bear Fire in Santa Cruz County and the Wilson Fire in Los Angeles County both of those relatively small for the time being and fire crews are able to stay on top of them. We are now at a process where people are hopefully returning home as soon as it is safely possible. If that includes you if you are now in the process of possibly going home I want to urge you to go to our website it's OESNews.com and on there we've got some great information about how to safely get home. Things are still very dangerous where the fires have gone through so we want you to go home but we want it to be safe and please go to our blogs on OESNews.com you can read all about how to get home safely in the precautions to take as you get to head back home. There are still a lot of people coming into California to help us with these firefighting efforts. We have eight crews from out of state currently helping now and there's a team of 32 flying in from Australia on Wednesday including guys who will be on the front lines fighting fires. In that regard we as all Californians just want to say thank you. We needed you and you've come to our help so on behalf of all of us in California thank you.


Hi you guys, welcome to another makes video where I show you everything that I've made in the last month. And sometimes these videos are pretty lackluster because I don't get a lot done.  So I'm not going to waste too much time. But if you are new here, hello, I'm Lindsay, welcome. I sew all my own clothes and nerd out about it on this YouTube channel. So be sure to leave a comment introducing yourself so that I can give you a formal welcome. And for everyone else, please give this video a like. It helps so much in teaching YouTube that this video is awesome and that it should be shown to more people with similar interests as us. And then of course, if you're not subscribed, go ahead and do that as well. So March, I knew this was going to happen because daylight savings, spring, all the things happen. Plus I had a sew-along plan. So I was very aware of my sewing space and needing to be in here all the time. So I had one weekend where I just did a sew-a-thon and just sewed like crazy. I did my sew-along jacket, which meant I was in here every day for a week, and then was able to get some other really fun stuff done too. Some works in progress, things like that. So first and foremost, we're go we're harkening way back to, I think, September's sew-together. Now when I tell you guys that sew-together does not have a deadline, I mean it. You can post your finished version of any sew-together pattern at any time, and I am an example of that. I don't have a deadline for that because I know that I don't meet the deadlines. And for me, sometimes a deadline can mean destruction, you know, like instead of not meeting a deadline, I just won't commit to the project at all. But when there's not a deadline, then five months later, I can finish it and it's totally fine. And that's the case with the Sinclair Daisy. I finally, finally sewed this, made it into a little dress, a little bit long, so I put a huge hem on it because this fabric is a little bit on the sheer side. I have not gotten video of me wearing this yet, like how I will style it and stuff, but of course as soon as I do, it will go up on a make it Monday. So yeah, Sinclair Daisy from like, like I said, September of last year. And while we're on the topic of Sew Together, let's talk about this month's Sew Together pattern, which was the petite, stichery, rimmy sweater. You guys have seen this. Mine turned out like this. I got a lot of suggestions from you guys as, I think mostly you guys didn't like it, which is fine, which is fine. I, you know, I put myself out there. I'm going to get all kinds of opinions. I do like it. I just don't know maybe it's the color that's throwing everybody off or how I had styled it with that silk dress from Lily Silk, but I did get some good suggestions for sizing down one more size. So instead of making the large, next time I will make the medium and then I do think I need to shorten it by about a couple of inches. And then the third suggestion was to make it a v-neck and have it just be a little bit more open at my face rather than this kind of closed situation. So I will keep all of that in mind whenever I go to make my next version because I do like the pattern and I do think it's really, really cute. I just might have to make some tweaks here and there for my body type and, you know, what favors my features the best. So that's that. We have not decided on so together for April yet. So if you want to participate in the vote and have a say, check my Instagram because the voting should be going on right now, right now. I think. All right. Next up, I made another tried and true pattern. This one is simplicity 9273. I love this little t-shirt pattern. I made a purple one a few months ago this time. It's coral and she's just gorgeous. I had started this because I was teaching knit neck bands. So I had like the bodice done and the neck band done and I just needed to do the sleeve. So this took a matter of a couple of hours. Honestly, the most annoying part was changing out the searcher thread, but I did it. And we have the cute little sleeve that I just love so much.  If you don't have simplicity 9273 highly recommend. I love the fit of that t-shirt and the sleeves always add like a fun little pizzazz. Okay. Now we have McCalls 6775. I've shown you guys this a couple of times because it's been kind of like a work in progress for a few months. I had it cut out one month and then I sewed the shorts another month and I sewed the top this past month.  And I think yes, but not maybe not as bad as we thought. I did. I do think that this, the design of the shirt helps a little bit. But you know what? I really don't care because it's meant to be comfortable. It's meant to be loungy. You know what I mean? And if that means hospital wear, let me, that's not the best, but it's fine. It's fine. I will say though, when I put this shirt on, I was like, um, excuse me. Why is McCalls like hiding one of the most well-fitting, well-designed, um, button-down shirt designs I've ever tried?  If you notice, we've got back fisheye darts and front bust darts. And the way that that collar is designed, you guys, this, I mean, I will make this out of fashion fabric and it will be like a quintessential button-down shirt for me. It is so beyond flattering, way too flattering for hospital fabric and to be lounging around it at home where only me and Dan can see it. Um, but yeah, it's really, really cute and kind of simple to throw it together. You can see the fisheye darts there. But I made the matching shorts, which disappeared, but I have the shorts as well. The shorts are a little, not my fave. So if I make that again, it would also be a really, really cute shirt dress. Um, that pattern has a lot of potential. So, um, if you see this little stitch and save six, seven, seven, five out and about, this top is good. And then the shorts, really the only issue is the crotch curve. It's a little bit toward the back, I think. I don't know. I'll talk to you more about it in the pattern review video. Next up is McCall six, two, two, eight. It's what I'm wearing. I have been obsessed with this little vest ever since I finished it. I just feel like 90s, cool, put together, professional, but also casual. You can't see, but today I'm wearing them with, with, um, what are they called shorts, biker shorts, um, and little like black platform shoes. It's such a cute casual outfit. I just love the idea of a vest. This one is a little bit big as you can see. So I'll be discussing that as well in the pattern review, but all things considered for wearable muslin out of fabric from Goodwill. I love it. I love it. Been wearing it a lot and feeling very pulled together, but also still very comfortable. And in this kind of temperatures where it's like fifties in the morning, mid sixties in the afternoon, this little wool, just a little bit of something has been, has been perfect. Um, okay. So next up, you guys have all seen this. This is the Sew Along Jacket McCall's eight, one, two, one. This is her. Um, not much more. I can say about this pattern kind of a little bit tired of talking about it because it's literally all I've been thinking about for two weeks. Um, but this is it. It is really great. Everything that I said about it in my pattern review that just went up is true. Um, and this one is going to, you know, just live fondly in my memory forever and ever as a Sew Along garment as all the previous ones have before. So super cute little moto jacket.  Like I went a little cray on the dog projects. Um, you guys saw the cart cover. Someone suggested on Instagram, I call it a cart cozy because it looks so cozy and warm. And some of you asked to see it like not in the cart to get an idea for like scale and like kind of how big it is. And this is it. Obviously we have the elastic, but I mean, it's pretty big. It's pretty big. And because I did like actual cotton batting, like that you would put in a quilt because I'm just bougie that way, um, it's pretty hefty. Um, so this is it. You can see like the design of all those super cute fabrics all the way around using the panel, but then also utilizing some of the other prints as well. So this is it. This is the cart cozy. And yes, it's extra. Yes, it's a lot. Yes, people look at me funny, but I don't care anything for my little girl. Right. I did not win that was a modified simplicity nine to nine nine. For what it's worth. If you have a child, I recommend this for the child to, um, yeah, quite enjoyed it. I can't speak to the changing mat or the bag, but the little car cover is really cute. Then I made it might be a little bit hard for me to decipher which is which, but I'm going to do my best. I do have a tried and true dog pattern already. It's quick.  Um, I told you guys I wanted to make a couple versions, one to match my pajamas from so together in February, which was the love notions tranquil and this is how it came out. So cute. I only had scraps, so I kind of had to scrappy it together, but this is it. Really, really cute. I had more of this, but say lovey, um, and then I also made this scrappy one from the same purple fabric that I used to make the first version of that t-shirt that I showed you guys. This is the scraps left over from that. So two little net t-shirts, one for each girl. And then this one is leftover from the Vogue coat that I just made with the big bell sleeves you guys just saw it last month. This is that. And I think it's McCall's 7, 8, 5, 0, which looks like a wedding dress, but when you take off all that hoopla from UC, then you're just left with like the cutest little dress ever. Um, and it's occurring to me now that I needed some velcro, which I think I bought, but once we get some velcro on it, then it looks like this, and this is how she wears it. Um, this is really only for honey because honey is a little bit bigger than biscuit. Um, but it's still really cute. And then I made this one, I mean, where it's like this. And then these little, here we take the hanger where these little tabs get velcro as well. And then either one of them can wear this and it's got this cute little collar with a bow and this little back tab and they wear it like this. So this one's more of a coat and that is simplicity 8, 2, 7, 7. I'm going to do my very best to get these up on the channel. So that is it. Like I said, it's a lot of things, um, but really, really happy with all the fun stuff that I got to add to my wardrobe this month. Um, I always love hearing what you guys made as well. Maybe it's something very special, like a wedding dress or was anybody making prom dresses? Um, or if it's just like, you know, a new favorite pattern that you found. I just love hearing what you guys made and kind of celebrating in our successes of completing any projects at all, because let's be real. I know I've been there certain months where you don't get anything so, um, so to have such a successful month feels really good. And I like to celebrate with you guys. So let me know, um, what you finished in March. And I'll be back soon with a plans video so that we can look forward to what April has to bring. Um, but in the meantime, if you want to see what the March plans were and kind of how that compares to what I actually got done, I have linked that for you guys here in the in slate. So check that out. But other than that, that's going to do it for me today. Y'all, thank you so much for watching. And I will see you all very soon. Bye.


My name is Pat Oscannell. The long version is Patricia Maureen Oscannell and if you want all four names it's Patricia Maureen Anastasia Oscannell. It turns out I have another name. I was adopted so my original name was Moira Reynolds. But be that as it may I had just started to tell you about coming up here in 1980 and since you gave reference to obviously in our discussion beforehand the women's movement I just want to mention that I've been involved in the women's movement since long before I came up to Ashland. So that's just sort of there to tuck in your back pocket. And when I got here in 1980 it was after completing a degree in music at UC Riverside. And after getting involved in music fairly young I started as a professional church organist when I was 13. So I had gotten into early music very early started out as a church organist and got started in my training so by the time I was in high school I pretty much knew that medieval and Renaissance music was what I wanted to do. I was lucky enough that I lived in Riverside California and at UC Riverside there was a really strong program there called Collegium Musicum which is there to teach people either how to be a conduit between a modern instrument that they already play into an early instrument or just to teach them to learn to play early instruments. And so that's kind of where I got my start there and studied under a wonderful director Dr. Fred Gable who's luckily still going in great health and does a lot of editions of music by Michael Pretorius a famous Renaissance composer. So I kind of got a really good start out in that so it was very lucky for me that at such a young age and I think I was 23 when Todd Barton received my resume and audition tape that he hired me and so you know in reference to the women's movement I also want to praise Todd he had a history of hiring women for the green shows as performers which was really wonderful I was so honored to be hired it was definitely the I kind of auditioned almost just as sort of a test a trial run I had worked at one Shakespeare Festival and this one was the pinnacle within the U.S. of programs like it for music and so I kind of thought well I should at least get some experience auditioning you know so I was actually surprised when I was hired and Todd was also the one who allowed me to move forward 10 years later when I was advanced into the directorial position he was the one who really facilitated that so a big shout out to Todd Barton who is very much a equal opportunity sort of sort of guy and I loved working under him although he was really my director for only one year but so I came to Ashland the first 10 years I was just absorbed in being a green show musician and doing everything that we did we made a certain number of recordings there wasn't a lot of emphasis on that at that time and we accompanied a group of historic dancers and we did our shows you know it was set in this format which you probably encountered 2020 or 2000 when you got here which was three shows each one was supposed to be tied to some degree to one of the outdoor plays as time went on the interpretation of how that was going to be meted out kind of changed you know over time but when I got there it was early music all the way not just early music but it was English Renaissance music it was very much music of the time of Shakespeare of music of Shakespeare and his contemporaries English music and we did the three dance forms we did you know English country dance we did courtly dance such as you might find in Italy or France and we did the Morris dancing you know with the sticks and the bells and all that kind of stuff and so we really had an opportunity which was amazing to work with live dancers every night that was great then ten years go by and we you know series of music directors come and go and I have the opportunity and I go away for a year I establish a group called the Terra Nova consort which does some touring and then I come back the following year as the music director bringing the Terra Nova consort into residence at the Shakespeare Festival we were the band that provided music then for the next 17 years for the dancers and also for ourselves because the shows you may recall before dance kaleidoscope arrived yeah because they I think came a little bit after that that lost my train of thought how could that possibly have happened before dance kaleidoscope arrived well we had historic dancing only and then when they came it all shifted to modern dance and the whole emphasis change and everything changed about what we did the dancers were I wouldn't say fired because it really was a season to season job at that point but our wonderful Judy Kennedy our wonderful dance reconstruction has to been with us for so many years she was sort of moved out of the picture and strangely and still to this day you know a subject of some wonderment on my part the Terra Nova consort was was retained the dancers were moved aside and then a Martha Graham trained dance ensemble from Indianapolis you know with at the head the choreographer David Ho Choi who used to be one one of Martha Graham's principal dancers you can find a lot of footage of him in those days he was an amazing extraordinary dancer but he's one of the few people who who can choreograph in that style and be an official you know Martha dancer Martha Graham dancer that so that was 10 years of really collaborating with somebody like that and we would go back to Indianapolis and do shows with them but that was also during the time when the Terra Nova consort was really starting to gain its foot we started to do things outside of Ashland we began by collaborating with a world-class musician who lived in Seattle at that time unfortunately she has passed a wonderful woman named Margaret Tindemans who was a Dutch early string player and we collaborated with her and started co-producing concerts in Seattle and that kind of got us started sort of envisioning our band beyond just Ashland we won a few contests and blah blah blah we ended up making two well we made 17 albums over the period of time I'm talking about one per year but the last two were the ones that I explained were had a more broad release they were picked up by Dorian which was an audiophile label that went under eventually but it was a Canadian label at that time a very high-standing if you were an audiophile and it was all about the sound being perfect and you know the way they had us we recorded our two albums with them in Troy New York and the Troy music hall which is like Carnegie Hall only better better acoustics and so back in the day if you looked at your record albums many many many many albums were record recorded in Troy music hall so that was that was really cool it was haunted stories of hauntings but anyway so that that was that period was for me the Taranova concert was sort of my brainchild and so everything that happened during that era was the result of a lot of you know kind of concentrated effort and energy to produce the group and have it move beyond Ashland so eventually we were picked up by Abbey music management and we started touring worldwide we hit some big music festivals and we got some amazing reviews and it was just a real pinnacle for us of every all of that unfortunately all of that was happening at the same time that the Shakespeare Festival's interest in things historical was waning and so there what had been incredible support for us and everything we'd done up to that point just dropped out and it became more about you know their current thing which was David Ho Choy and modern dance and and all of that and so it was I have to admit it was a little bit of a stretch for me to try to fit within all of that to try to still have the early music component be something important and visceral and happening right now and exciting in a context of well what we really want is brand new music written for modern dancers so I would consider that to be sort of a time when the Taranova concert such as we were that started to wane and you know as life is you know you hit a pinnacle you can't just be there the rest of your life you have things have to go up and down so that was the contour of that after I left Shakespeare and that was in 2007 was my last season there when I was on full contract I took a few years off I did my Edith Piaf show which hopefully you can maybe take a look at the review of that and that had started out as a green show but I turned it into a bit more of a cabaret sort of style show and and did it at a local theater the Camelot and projects like that you know did a little bit of jazz with Bill Leonard and you know a few other people and just kind of started a rock band with cold cover art that did progressive rock I needed to get away from early music a little bit just to kind of freshen the palette I guess you'd say and then in 2000 so that was 2007 then in 2016 I decided it took me a while to figure out what I was going to do but I realized what I needed to do with early music was to start a nonprofit that it wasn't a for-profit endeavor and it had never been really it always had been under the auspices of a Shakespeare festival or California Pleasure fairs or whatever and that on my own it was kind of hard to figure out how to make all that work but started Musica Matrix which is my nonprofit which is in suspended animation right now because of COVID-19 trying to figure out how maybe to retool it but that's a whole other story and started that in 2016 just started producing concerts founded probably about 10 different ensembles that I either play in or direct and then provided you know a production support all kinds of support for people who wanted opportunities to play and provide them with an audience and all that kind of stuff so I have a board and everything but you know it's one of it's a small nonprofit I tend to be sort of chief cook and bottle washer it keeps me very busy but of course you know COVID-19 has changed a lot of that so I'm in a resting period and hence gardening all kinds of other things I've completed a book I'm started on the second book so but getting back to I know the crux of all of this is really the women's movement so I want to just kind of go back in history a minute to say that I said early on that when I got here I was already involved in the women's movement I would say I've been a feminist since word go I don't think I probably was a feminist before I really knew what that word meant and then I read about it and went oh that's what I am so in that spirit I was also a songwriter and a lot of my songs were about women's lives and I wrote over 50 songs so when I first came up here the women's community such as it was at that time they they saw me they knew I worked at the Shakespeare Festival but they more related to me through my song writing and being a singer-songwriter so that that's a whole other facet of what I did and it started to kind of in a way if you look just at that it sort of disappeared I guess as my job at Shakespeare got bigger and bigger and as Taranova became more all-consuming and everything and also as I was able to express myself more through Taranova as a director because when you direct early music a lot of the skills are also arranging music and I discovered that that was a real passion that arranging music was something I really loved and got more into and was able to kind of flesh that out more with the Taranova concert so I guess you know kind of creatively that was sort of disappearing this other thing was happening but I continued writing songs I've written songs in various styles over the years since that time because another style of music that I do and I'll shut up in just one second is a traditional Irish music of the British Isles in Ireland particularly of Ireland 87 just by the way was the year that I I went to Ireland for the very first time and was able to kind of connect with roots and all that kind of stuff and it was I remember that period being very vibrant as far as the women's community I don't know what I don't if I don't know if I got less in touch with it over time or if it just felt like there was a period when it was like scary to say you were a feminist you know maybe it was a little of both it went from a kind of a point of pride and a point of something that really brought people together and various things that we did like take back the night marches and things like that you know that felt so important and so in the moment and then it just drifted and part of it was like I said it was probably me because I was pulling away from the community not because I wanted to but because my job was taking up more and more of my time like any job you know well not like any job but maybe like being a teacher or something like that where you think okay it's a full-time job and you work Monday through Friday but then there's all the work you do after the fact and what I was trying to do was to push our group and kick our butt into a into a world-class status and there was a lot involved with doing that you know entering contests and you know playing many different places trying to find good representation God we went through like five different agents before we found one who would actually do anything for us and then of course every time you get with a different agency it takes approximately two to three years to extricate yourself even if they've done nothing for you a lot of that so but as far as the women's movement yeah I mean I remember going up to Lake of the Woods I remember there were we had some gatherings up there I know I played up there one of my main venues was a place called the Beanery which used to be and now this is really going back in what is the place where they make the cakes and pies it was at a town it was a Italian restaurant for a while and everything but that little place where they actually make the bakery that was the Beanery not even that part off to the side that goes around the corner just that one little small room not the building they bought they built next door which became the Beanery which would have been nice to work there it was big this was very small and we would have live music sometimes and I would play there at night and so I built up a little you know following mostly women and I think I played there once a week or something like that I also worked at the Beanery for one season because when I first started working at Shakespeare we were paid on kind of like a scholarship sort of basis so a it wasn't a lot of money be it was a shorter season that eventually my season was nine months long it was originally four months long and so you couldn't accrue more than three years worth of those kind of salaries monies according to the federal government you had to take a break from it and start again so I worked for three years then I took a year off moved to Gold Hill continued writing songs with the knowledge I was going to be back the following year that they'd already told me at Shakespeare I was rehired but I just had to leave for one year and so you know so when so it was the it was really the the federal monies aspect that caused me to have to go away but I went away came back and that was all around that same period it comes down to two different aspects the first one was the timbers of the instruments right so I already my folks my mother was a trained singer and so I heard a lot of different styles of music at home I'd already heard orchestral music and I'd heard a lot of different kinds of music but these instruments sounded different like there was sort of something that was called a violin but it didn't sound like the violins I had ever heard there was a sort of flutey thing called the recorder well I had this pure sound that was different than the flute and then there were reed instruments I'd never heard of like you know captured reed instruments like crumb horns and things like that who heard who has heard of that right so it just kind of captured my my imagination the timbers and the second part was the modes because the scales that we have now in modern times are fairly simplistic there's like you have a major scale you have a minor scale you could have an augmented chord you can have a diminished chord but they didn't think in terms of chords they thought in terms of modes so instead of like two scales they had like 12 modes you know and as a keyboard player it was easier easy for me to envision it because it really goes white key to white key white key to white key white key to white key and then all of the where the half steps are gets jumbled around for each scale producing some very exotic sounding scales and these were these are the basic building blocks of me of Western music this is what all of our music is based on it got simpler and the rhythms oh my gosh the rhythms so complex so many different levels of rhythm going on that the notational systems had to actually be you know had to be created to support that many different kinds of rhythms and all of that got simplified over time as well so sorry I keep somehow how do I do it I don't know how does she do it so the modes were a big huge part of it and like I said starting out on the organ I was able to quickly sort of figure out that I love the early stuff and my teacher was willing to go along with me he got me into books to who then Bach and you know some of the early composers and didn't insist I played all the like there's a lot of you may not know this or you may know this there's a whole bunch of romantic style romantic period music written for the organ like tons of it don't like it it's not it's just not my thing so he was very he was good for me because he taught me what I needed to know but he also allowed me to kind of find my little pocket of interest so that's probably what started it out as soon as I got interested in it and I started to collaborate with the collegiate music program that I told you about and that was while I was still in high school I had a buddy who also went into early music professionally as it happens and we would walk over from the high school to the university campus and we'd sit outside the collegium music indoor and we'd we'd listen to that and so and now I've lost my train of you had a question I've rambled and so that's when I first really heard them live and so then you start to see what they look like and you start to connect with the people playing them you find out a little bit of information and then when we actually began playing with the group of course we learned a lot more about them we found that these instruments are there's more people playing them now than there were in the Renaissance period we found that there's more builders of the recorder now in the world than there were in the whole Renaissance period so it's it's kind of like the Highland bagpipes there's more playing those now than ever were at the height of the instrument in Scotland when it first you know kind of hit its heyday so you find out about them and you have an opportunity to handle them to play now this was why you see Riverside was such a great program for me because I came there and they had all these instruments you know they had a set of Renaissance style recorders they had a set of crumb horns they had a set of violas de gamba an instrument that I still play and teach you know they had everything they really had Fred Gable had taken years because the program had been going for 25 years or something before I got there and Fred had inherited and it had really burgeoned and turned it into something and had I obviously had some kind of budget to buy instruments so that was where I got sort of the hands-on learning about these instruments and realized that you know you could if you've got a list of the good builders and stuff you could easily order instruments and have them made for you and the first instrument that I had made that my father actually commissioned for me and I still have this instrument was a viola de gamba built by a man named Lynn Elder and his great contribution to early music and it was a great he's still alive I think but he doesn't live on the West Coast anymore a great contribution was he made instruments that students could afford to buy so this is the viola de gamba it's literally the vial of the legs there were a lot of other violas viola de braccio you know all kinds of different it was a generic term but it's held between the legs like a cello would be but it comes in different sizes like all the instruments you know you've seen the recorder and there's a little one a soprano and alto a tenor bass etc same with these same with the sack but which is the trombone all different sizes same with all the reed instruments so this is the treble the smallest one and it's held between the legs but bowed underhand so if you play a modern string or you've seen somebody playing violin or cello they be holding this with this grip I'm holding with this grip the strings are made out of gut it has frets on it like a guitar so in pretty much every way it's totally different from a cello but when people see it they think cello one day one night I played a show out on the green at OSF I was playing my tenor and at the end of the show this woman came up to me and she said oh how nice darling she said you play a training cello so I had to explain to her no this is not a training cello in fact it's not related to the cello it's related to the guitar but anyway just an example I think the instruments are beautiful you know they they spent a lot of time making them look beautiful because that was important to them they would hide any bits of metal they thought were unseemly or whatever so they're just a joy to look at as well but I have a very large collection of various instruments and this is one of my violas de gamba. Musica Matrix has really been my focus for the last several years I wouldn't say ten but you know six maybe and I've really been enjoying it I think we've brought a lot to the community however given that we were a performance-based operation basically producing concerts so that musicians who play those styles would have an opportunity to play that's kind of hard right now with what's going on with COVID-19 I'm I'm reticent to produce concerts where I'm not sure people are going to come they're not the kind of instruments that play well outside unless you're choosing specifically a loud instrument that is to be played outside but most of the instruments we're dealing with and that I'm dealing with are these indoor instruments very quiet so I'm guessing it's probably going to be the end of this year before I can even decide on whether we will produce concerts in 2021 that's my current kind of plan is I'll make that decision in December however what you know one thing that's you hate to talk about COVID-19 having any good aspects because it's just so horrific for so many people but I guess everything every cloud has some kind of silver lining and what it has afforded me is just some time to kind of realize how much of what a workload I had placed upon myself and that I needed some time off and also to think about maybe how music a matrix could possibly be retooled in the next couple of years in a way that would benefit the community I'm still thinking about that I need to talk to our web designer I have ideas right now about how we might give some forums on our website we have a nice website to local musicians to maybe post ads or talk about things they're doing or an idea that I had that I need to figure out if this is even feasible would be to show some concerts some live concerts that people are doing now and produce those concerts for them so they get quite an audience and so I need to talk to the web designer to see how that could possibly work but it took me probably I mean March 17th was for me because of working at the food bank that was our cutoff date before we revamped our whole system there that's how long it took me to be able to figure it out I was like I would like to think of a way to retool this and I I just kept thinking and nothing came to me and I just set it aside and in the setting aside of it my mind was still working on and I came up with some ideas so I guess that's just a way to say hey there's always some good thing that can come out of some bad thing and and I'm just so thrilled you know I guess the cap on this would be to say how thrilled I am that that a project like this is being undertaken I think so often the contributions of women are lost and forgotten no matter how important you are it can be easy to take that on and to think oh my gosh I'm just not whatever enough then you're thinking but wait a bit Madame Curie and you know all these famous women who you still have to kind of kick people in the butt to remind them that they existed and what they did and there's more and more women like that so I'm hopeful I'm hopeful that that's going to burgeon and continue to bring us you know more opportunities


Happy Friday time for D F. Yes here my DFS players for week five who I love first up Zach Wilson listen We got the news that he was gonna come back and start when I was on the air and I said some optimism is coming and here We go he finished 11th at quarterback last week in his season debut the Dolphins who they've got on the docket for week five have allowed the second most passing yards in the NFL this season and Might be without both starting corners I like Damian Harris as well up against the Lions still like a mid-tier pricing option going up against the league's worst defense And what will almost definitely be a run heavy game for the Pats and no matter who is at? Quarterback another wide receiver that I or the riders here that I like is Corey Davis.  I love one that we didn't talk to you James Jones about is Alan Lazard Who has gotten the trust of Aaron Rodgers? They're playing in London It's the Giants and he really is kind of a go-to guy and he's a bit of a value over at Fandall He's had either a hundred yards or touchdown in every game this season all three games that he's played And he's coming off his best performance by the way Nothing a sneeze at six catches for 116 yards James Jones says if you're a wide receiver and you get 70 yards on five catches That's exciting. So he had eight targets against the Patriots expect that to continue Against their NFC East opponent the Giants Should we throw a tight end in there? Should be more so my feeling generous is Friday We might as well Logan Thomas taking on the Titans He's up to a little bit of a slow start this year But he saw six targets last week in Tennessee's defense has been the second most generous to the tight end spot this season at that Banana show with your questions for DF. Yes, but let's take oh we have Conrad. Is it my birthday? We have a review board. Oh my god. Goodness. These are my DF. Yes Value plays Zach Wilson stacking with Corey Davis Damian Harris. Yes, you can play Ramon Drew, but I'd like to value at 7,200 Of course, according to Fandal. We love Fandal. We love Fandal TV Alan Lazzard It's a little piece of that action in London something to get excited about and Logan Thomas at tight end because I love you


Aloha Namaskar and hello. This is Anu Hitto reporting 5 Minutes at 5. This is day 4 of the United Nations Framework Convention on Climate Change, the Conference of the Parties, COP 22 or COP Vendu as they say here in Marrakech, Morocco. I'm sitting here in one of the plenary rooms where most of the results get reported. This is where the ministers and the heads of state report or really they actually renew their commitments to the Paris Agreement. This COP 22 has been one that is not as exciting perhaps as the others in such as the one in Paris and the one in Copenhagen many years before that. This is really one of the smaller COPs in the sense that it's a real workhorse of a COP. So the parties get together, they negotiate, their negotiators come in, they're talking about how do they provide procedures for the rules for the climate agreement, for the Paris Agreement. So this is something that we've been working on for 22, 25 years now and finally we have the Paris Agreement where all countries have agreed to do something about climate change. However, perhaps there was a little bit of a shock that went through this little smaller COP after last week's elections and one of the things that's happened of course is people are wondering, countries are wondering is the United States going to pull out of the Paris Agreement and what does that mean for climate action all over the world. So one thing that is heartening, one of the chief negotiators here said that it's heartening to see that countries have decided to stay the course regardless of what happens and of course what will actually happen remains to be seen. We don't know what President-elect Trump will do. However, it does make some sense that there is a talk of clubs, of many agreements perhaps, regional agreements or agreements where countries that are similarly involved such as China, India, Brazil, those countries might make their own separate agreements that would then dovetail into the Paris Agreement. So there are all kinds of combinations possible at this point. Also looking at perhaps using some of the provisions of the Paris Agreement and putting it into trade agreements that are being signed and into investment agreements. So all is not lost and for many people here who have been, top veterans, they feel that four years really is not such a long time. So that was sort of heartening to see perhaps the mood has lifted a little and or maybe we're just getting used to the new reality. But the problem of course is no one knows what is going to happen with someone who doesn't have a track record in politics such as Donald Trump. So anyway, this is something that we will stay the course and I would say that along with Secretary Kerry, yesterday and various people here today, the feeling very much is that this will go on with or without the U.S.'s involvement in the Paris Agreement that things are already set in motion where we will be very much, it would be very difficult to disentangle from it. So that's really been the main news here today and aside from the sort of slow plotting along of negotiations and setting procedures for rules, there really hasn't been a whole lot else happening in terms of the actual negotiations. However, there are plenty of side events, there are all kinds of things going on, people talking about renewable energy, talking about technology, talking about finance, talking about climate justice. So there are lots of things going on, about 25,000 people over here. So that's about double what was there more than double of what was at the World Conservation Congress in Honolulu a couple of months ago. So once again, this is Anu Hital, five minutes at five and hoping to stay the course with some of these fighting words that really four years is not a long time, we've seen worse. So fingers crossed and we're charging right along over here at the climate conference. We'll see you again tomorrow, five minutes at five. Aloha Namaskar.