My name is Ozias Sanu and I am a senior scientist at INERA that is a research institute in Bukina Faso. Focusing on environment and agriculture, my research concerns parkland management for food crops production improvement. Parklands are agriculture areas where trees are present on the field. The reason for having these trees in the agriculture are that they give benefit to the people such as fruits and fodder. It's also improved the productivity in the field by helping the rain infiltrate to the groundwater. One great challenge in managing these parklands is to maintain three diversity and three high density without reducing food crop production. My involvement in agri-fosay 2030 started with my participation in the course, translating science into policy and practice that took place in Nairobi in 2017. Where I practice on how to communicate research and how to find the right person to talk to. After this course, I started a project together with colleagues in Bukina focusing on management practices of parklands. I have also been involved in agri-fosay pilot activity focusing on the role of women in the production of Shibata, which is called women goal. Because she not have the main source of revenue for women in most rural area in Bukina Faso. At the end of phase 1, me and my colleague Huig Bazie develop and test a meeting structure that we have called innovative platform for parkland management. In this meeting, we have a structure for dialogue around management practices in the parkland among stakeholders such as scientists, farmers, extension workers, local government officials. The interest of these meetings were overwhelming. We even had a meeting where we were interviewed on the radio in Bukina, which gave us the chance to talk about parkland management to a large audience. We will continue working on the dialogue platform since it seemed to be a good arena for science to be transformed into practices. During agri-fosay 2030 phase 2, we will continue to develop the parkland management project within the agri-fosay challenge, agriculture, projectivity and ecosystem function. One of the issues we would like to transform and help farmers with is agroecological practices that contribute to intensified food crop production on parkland. God is very important especially for the farmers. We can say that God is a cattle for the poor farmer. God can be their income, can improve their living hold. God is very important and it is very easy to listen. Women and children can take care of that. So that's why God is very important and very interesting to support and the farmer needs for the health. Many projects in Laos are talking about God but seem to be not success. And then we found in our research that there are many challenges. And then what of challenges is talking about the knowledge of the farmer beside of like a technique. The technique includes for the feeding, for the pens and for the animal health. And mainly what the challenge and the problem for the God is talking about animal health. That the animal always have problem with the disease. And then we need to solve this problem as well as we can. Agrofosay has been support for the God project since 2016. And the first activity what we have done, we have to stay on the workshop that discuss together how we can develop for the God project. And then in 2018-2019 we have done the activity at the pilot project to support the farmer into province, Miangchan capital and Sawanakit province. The pilot project have been starting in 2018-2019 that we are working that cooperation between researcher and attention. So in attention we have work in national level and we work in the provincial level and also district level. And then we found that we have working together in this really good model between researcher and attention. In total 11 farmer group have been established and also we have the member 119 member that contribute and working in our group. Agrofosay feed tool and it should be start from this year. It's really important for us especially for the God project. We will continue with the activity from last feed that will provide more information and knowledge for the farmer. We will set up the farmer group and also maintain the group that we already have. And then we will have the activity for like market link. We will do the pilot activity for the market link that take the products from the farmer group to the market. And then in the future what is really we are looking forward is talking about market link in the domestic and also in export. So that it's really important that we need to know about the information about the gap between demand and supply. That's why this project we will continue and we will have activity about the survey talking about demand and supply in domestic and export about God in Laos. Greetings everyone. My name is Samuel Onyango Monday from University of Nairobi Department of Agricultural Economics. Last year in 2019 I had an opportunity to work with the Agrofosay team members in implementing a project in Kenya. This was under the socio and economic dimensions of small holder agriculture and food security. This was a team one of Agrofosay Feswan. And selected as a proof of concept was a project titled the workshop project on urban agriculture policy and practice in Kenya. We collaborated with the University of Nairobi, the Mazingira Institute and county governments of Kiambu, Nakuru and Kisumu in implementing this project. The main goal of the project was to initiate a process that will move forward the development and implementation of urban agriculture policies in the small and medium size cities in Kenya. The specific objectives were to conduct workshops in selected counties to facilitate discussions amongst the holders on pertinent issues revolving around urban agriculture. And also to disseminate research findings on urban agriculture to stakeholders with a view of providing insights for development of policies and better practices, farming practices. Another objective was to build on the expertise of Nairobi developed so far in developing and trying to implement urban agriculture policy and activities. We undertook some initiatives or activities to implement this project. And the first one was to organize preparatory meetings with stakeholders to assess the issues, priorities and problems regarding urban agriculture. And this will form part of the discussion during the workshop. We also had sensitization of stakeholders about ongoing urban agriculture policies. And we also organized workshops where we brought in researchers who presented their research findings to a wide range of stakeholders with the hope that they will utilize this in developing future policies. And challenge 4 of agrifosafes 2 which is on small holder agriculture in transforming food systems. We are hoping to implement a project in the three cities and possibly also including Nairobi. And this time it's on the broader food system. With the transformation of food system we want to look at various issues around the food system. And this we are doing in collaboration with the county governments and also other ongoing initiatives and processes. For example FAO is having a project on food systems in Nairobi and Kitesumo. And we are hoping that we will collaborate also in this current agrifosafes project. Some of the initiatives that we will undertake include setting platforms and organizing workshops for food systems dialogue. And in these sessions presents scientific findings to guide the development of the food strategies that various cities are trying to implement. And also we are hoping to facilitate knowledge exchange between researchers and county staff. In addition to this, this time around we will conduct complementary studies on the transformation of food systems on various issues such as food system governance, inclusivity, gender gaps, public-private partnerships. And all this the project is intended to take about one to one and a half years. Thank you.


So today I'm going to start first by introducing the thermodynamic functions and those functions I only need to introduce them once because they are fairly straightforward although the physical meaning of those functions I hope to make clear. So today's talk is about the thermodynamic functions and if you look at this picture it's just an ordinary fire that you see here okay ordinary fire this is a picture I took in Graz in Austria but you can find this picture in many places and back in the early 19th century people were wondering you know what actually is heat is it a substance that you know you pass from one material to another or what exactly constitutes heat and you know there were various theories that it was actually a fluid a substance and it wasn't until 1820-1830 that people started to think a lot more about what heat actually means and the sketch that you see over here is an apparatus which was constructed by Jewel and basically you know you have here a flask which is inside a container with water this is actually a steel container made with tin plate and this is a thermometer that actually he constructed himself so remember these are these are the days when you know you couldn't just go and buy a thermometer but if you look at his original paper he was able to calibrate this so accurately that he could measure 100th of a degree okay and he calibrated this against another thermometer which was calibrated to the boiling point of water and the freezing point of pure water and his goal was that look this is a mechanical device which pumps air into this chamber okay so he could he could calculate the amount of work done in pumping the chamber pumping this chamber and then work out how much heat is absorbed by the act of compression and therefore see whether the two equate all right so is the mechanical energy that it put in equal to the energy which is the heat capacity times the temperature rise in that material and lo and behold after taking account of any errors he could derive a mechanical equivalent of heat that means you know if I lift a weight by one kilogram what is that equivalent to in terms of heat so this was the first ever proof that energy is not a fluid of some sort which is passed on from one material to another but it actually is a quantity which you can convert to mechanical energy and vice versa so he discovered the mechanical equivalent of heat and if you look at his original paper which was in 1845 it reads very beautifully and you know the amount of thought that went into designing this and other critical experiments in that paper is amazing now how can you explain this you know how can you explain that you're converting mechanical energy into into something that is locked inside your gas in the material in the flask well you know the argument was fairly straightforward that we should think about heat as the vibration of particles and those particles vibrate more when the temperature increases and then it becomes clear how you could actually by applying a mechanical force and compressing the gas cause them to move more violently and therefore you have heat so he not only had a mechanical equivalent of heat but he could explain the mechanism by which you heat up the gas inside the flask here by compressing this and it isn't surprising therefore that jewel was the person who coined the phrase thermodynamic because dynamic refers to these vibrations of all these atoms which constitute temperature or heat of the material and thermal you know for obvious reasons so i believe that this is the first paper 1858 which actually refers to the term thermodynamic okay that's what our course is about so there were some really amazing discoveries made in those early days where you're trying to explain what heat actually is because if you go back a long way you know the four elements used to consist of earth water fire and air so it was a very ethereal subject with no particular proof of what's happening so jewel made an enormous contribution to the understanding of heat okay so he also laid the foundations of the conservation of energy the principle of the conservation of energy because he found that the amount of work done mechanically was equal to the amount of heat generated inside that flask okay so the principle of conservation of energy has never been violated okay now let's think about some functions that we need to define in order to work with thermodynamics well the first is internal energy which will use a symbol you and imagine that we have here a system and it is at a particular temperature T2 let's say and you transfer some heat into that material and by sign convention when we transfer heat into the material we call that positive as a consequence of that and we are maintaining the temperature constant as a consequence of this transfer of heat into this region the material expands and it does work against the environment and that work because it's done against a particular pressure P we label as negative so the change in the internal energy of our sample is the amount of heat we put in minus the amount of work done and then you express this in express this in differential form that du is equal to dq minus dw where dw is the work done against the pressure surrounding this object so that is the definition of internal energy okay if we look now at heat capacity and I mentioned heat capacity in the context of joules experiments but let's define it formally so heat capacity is the heat that is absorbed per unit change in temperature so since dq is the amount of heat that we transferred into this material and the temperature change was dt heat capacity is simply dq by dt and since du is equal to dq plus pdv we can write that dq is equal to du the change in the internal energy plus this term here which is the work done against the environment so at constant volume we define the heat capacity as du by dt keeping the volume constant okay so that's the meaning of heat capacity now how do we measure heat capacity because it's really a very important parameter it helps us to calculate thermodynamic properties you'll see that later we can derive terms like entropy and free energies by measuring heat capacities well very simple way of measuring the heat capacity is using a calorimeter of some sort this particular calorimeter it could be a differential thermal analyzer or a differential scanning calorimeter they both work on the same principle so what we have is two identical cans here two identical cans one of which contains a sample and the other one might be kept empty or it may contain an inert sample which doesn't react at all and we enclose this into in a furnace here this is a furnace and you know you try and maintain the temperature inside this object extremely accurately and we have inert gas to protect the samples you then ramp up the temperature at a certain rate and because the sample has a certain heat capacity whereas the reference here is an empty can they will reach different temperatures okay so the sample may be at a higher temperature if it is able to absorb more heat per unit change in the furnace temperature than the reference or the other way around so by looking at the temperature difference between the reference and the sample you can work out the heat capacity if the sample undergoes a reaction okay then you can also measure the enthalpy change accompanying the reaction but you haven't defined entropy yet so equipment like this is now quite routine and can be used to measure these thermodynamic properties such as the heat capacity now normally we are not working at constant volume you know if we are looking at the lump of iron and we heat it up then it's likely that it will expand in other words you're not measuring a property at constant volume so instead of internal energy we define a separate quantity which is known as the enthalpy so the enthalpy is the internal energy and the plus the product of the pressure and the volume of the system and that gives us another definition for heat capacity which is the change in enthalpy per unit temperature at a constant pressure so this is the more common heat capacity that we use in in most applications now supposing that you heat a sample between a temperature t1 and t2 then you can actually measure the change in enthalpy as a consequence simply by integrating the heat capacity versus the temperature so we get direct information on the enthalpy changes inside the material using that calorimeter device that i showed you earlier okay um given that cp is the heat capacity at constant pressure and cv is the heat capacity at constant volume it is quite reasonable that the difference between these two depends on the bulk modulus of the material so if your material is very stiff then it's not going to expand much against the pressure change pressure of the environment and similarly there will be a term in there which depends on the thermal expansion coefficient so i don't want to go into the detail of this actual relationship but the difference for solids between cp and cv is really quite small so here for example these are data for copper and tungsten which are often used as references and of course the heat capacities are a function of temperature so here i'm giving you the data for 300 Kelvin and you can see that it's not much of a difference between the heat capacity at constant pressure and the heat capacity at constant volume this is of course not the case if you're working with something like a gas okay now we ask a more fundamental question consider any reaction you know a plus b going to c is it the case that when the enthalpy is reduced in this reaction that means energy is liberated so the enthalpy of c is less than that combined enthalpies of a and b is it the case that that would define whether or not this reaction happens spontaneously or not okay so can we say that if the heat of reaction is negative that means you release heat then the reaction should go forward how do we decide whether this reaction actually occurs and it was clausius it was a canoe many many years ago who started to address this question and he noted for example that even when there is no enthalpy change reactions can happen okay so there's something something missing and he defined that as entropy this is the greek root of entropy which means to give a direction exactly the question i was asking earlier that will this reaction happen and how can i define a quantity which says this reaction will happen spontaneously in this direction and this is another piece of classical work which was done in 1824 basically heat and engines okay the the huge article is about heat and engines and what he did was absolutely brilliant you know he imagined in his mind because at that time you know people were making engines steam engines and basic question is you know what is the efficiency that you can get out of a steam engine so he did a virtual experiment in his mind and i'm going to explain explain that to you okay so imagine that we have here a system which is at a temperature t2 and we put heat q2 into that object okay now when i maintain the color as identical i mean they are at the same temperature okay so all the reds are at the same temperature and all the blues are at the same temperature so as i explained before when we add heat to this transfer a quantity of heat into this sample here it will it will expand in order to maintain the temperature because we've added heat and we want to maintain the temperature so isothermally it expands okay and it does a certain amount of work now that is isothermal expansion okay if we had done this adiabatically that means if i now completely insulate this and i adiabatically expand it then its temperature would drop to another temperature t1 and another quantity of work is done w2 so there's nothing complicated here here we are adding heat isothermally so it's natural that this should expand and here we are doing an adiabatic expansion so the temperature has dropped to t1 there's no heat being added or removed now i want to get back to this original state so first i do an isothermal compression of this and that lets out a heat q1 because we are maintaining the temperature constant if i compress this then clearly i've introduced energy here and i get rid of that energy to maintain the temperature t1 and then adiabatically compress it so that i recover my original system okay so the temperature is increased in this adiabatic compression to t2 and this is what we call a reversible cycle where you've gone exactly to the original point and we haven't lost anything in terms of say friction or irreversible processes now the total work done by the by the object is minus w remember our sign convention that if you're doing work then it's minus and if work is being done on the object then that's a plus w so minus w is equal to the heat that we put in and remember that the heat that we take out has a minus sign in front of it so the work done is the difference between these two quantities and therefore we can define the efficiency as the work done by the heat put in we're not concerned with this because this is the actual energy that we put into our fluid so minus w o q2 defines the efficiency of this cycle and of course minus w is q2 plus q1 over q2 now this is a really really important equation it's the thermodynamic efficiency of this Carnot cycle and what Kelvin did was he defined temperature using this equation so he basically said okay we cannot have an efficiency greater than one and therefore he defined an absolute temperature of zero at which the efficiency would be exactly one so t2 minus t1 if t1 the lowest part of the cycle is zero Kelvin then the efficiency is exactly one okay so that is why we talk about an absolute zero that in the Carnot cycle you cannot get an efficiency greater than one that means all the energy that is put into the material is converted into work so the absolute zero temperature is defined in terms of the Carnot cycle when t1 is equal to zero we have a thermodynamic efficiency of one and this is the this equation here basically is the maximum efficiency that you can get in a cycle like this if you have any irreversible processes happening such as for example friction that I mentioned or noise being generated which is dissipated then the efficiency will be less than this okay so when we talk about making aircraft engines more efficient by increasing the highest operating temperature we are not going to get anywhere near the thermodynamic efficiency simply because there are other dissipative processes happening which which means that we cannot achieve the maximum efficiency sorry I need to let people in or late this is one of the dangers of this method of lecturing Harry I am just making an announcement for smooth conducting of our lecture series do not admit anybody from you know next class on word after five minutes okay I think that's a good yeah that's a very good idea okay so I'm going to shut down the admission system okay okay so this equation is extremely powerful and it is the guiding principle for making a better steam steam to electricity generators in power plant better efficiency in aircraft engines and also a measure of how much energy we are wasting that we are not recovering at as work now if I take this equation here and I rearrange it so you you can try this for yourself rearrange this equation then you get q2 over t2 plus q1 over t1 equals zero and in differential form that would be dq2 by t2 plus dq1 by t1 equals zero and since we have recovered our original state by going through this cycle basically the integral of dq by t over that cycle is zero for a reversible process and this of course is entropy is the entropy that carno defined the carno entropy okay now this is for a reversible process where dq over t across that cycle becomes zero if we have an irreversible process for example here then what I'm doing here is I have a body at a temperature t2 and another body at a temperature a lower temperature t1 and they are connected here by something that allows the heat to flow through for example copper so the heat is flowing in this direction into this container this process is irreversible because we are actually dissipating energy from t2 to t1 and in such a process the entropy change according to that carno entropy that we derived earlier is q over t1 minus q over t2 this is the final minus the initial and that's the change and that clearly has to be greater than zero because t2 is greater than t1 so this is a smaller quantity so in any irreversible process so this is the second really important conclusion in any irreversible process the change in entropy will be greater than zero okay so entropy is a difficult concept to grasp but in terms of the carno cycle it's straightforward we managed to define the thermodynamic efficiency and also the fact that if you have an irreversible process you will get an increase in entropy but what does this diagram actually show what it's showing is that we had organized energy we had a sample which is hot and a sample which is cold by allowing the transfer of heat you are basically spreading out the energy okay so that is a greater this degree of disorder than having organized heat you know when you have an electrical battery in your phone that is organized energy and of course when you use your phone you are dissipating that energy and spreading it out and therefore the entropy is increasing all the time so entropy does really correspond to disorder being created and I will show you now another example of this which you know sometimes it's difficult to link the entropy description that I'm going to give you in the next slide with the entropy description of carno but you'll see that they are actually both dealing with an increase in disorder so imagine that we have a crystal here and the crystal has red atoms on this side and black atoms on this side and there are n atoms of type A let's say red and n minus n of type B where capital N is the total number of atoms okay so this is just saying that we have n minus the red of B atoms so this is highly organized we have all the red atoms on one side and all the black atoms on the other side but supposing we allow them to mix in some way okay so I've just given you three different arrangements that I can make without changing the composition or the size of the crystal these are simply three different arrangements so the probability of getting a disorganized array of atoms is much greater than of getting an organized array of atoms okay and we can work that out so if I were to place the first atom onto this lattice okay so imagine that all these sides are unoccupied and I place one atom I can place it at capital N different locations okay and the second atom will only have access to capital N minus one locations and you know we've got to make a correction for that second atom because we you know there are two two ways in which you can place it on on that lattice so we divide by a factor of two and if I continue and if I continue this process then I have this equation telling me the total number of arrangements now I don't think I explained this very well you know if I choose this atom first then the second atom would be placed at another location and if I choose one atom of that pair first then I would have another possibility and we can't distinguish those possibilities so we divide by two and similarly as we continue this process you you end up with an equation like this where we have this factorial capital N factorial over small n factorial times capital N minus small n factorial so that gives us the total number of arrangements that we can have in this system of atoms and Boltzmann was working on this and it was at a time when people were not absolutely certain whether matter was particulate that means consistent consisting of atoms there were really huge arguments about this and they were often not very pleasant but before he did that he came up with this equation so these are the number of arrangements the number of configurations of these atoms and he wrote entropy as being proportional to log of the number of configurations now the reason for choosing a log is that entropy is an additive property that means if I take two bodies with two different entropies put them together then the total is the sum of the two and therefore you know if I take the log of the number of configurations I can add up the terms to get the total entropy at k which is what we call the Boltzmann constant is simply the proportionality constant between this and log of that and if I substitute that equation telling me the number of configurations here into the Boltzmann equation I end up with something like this where the change in entropy when you mix the atoms is the concentration of a particular species times the log of the concentration of that particular species times r which is the Boltzmann constant times Avogadro's number is the gas constant I'm going to show you how to derive this and in order to do this I need to change the screen that I'm sharing to another device okay let's derive the logarithm of the number of configurations using sterling's approximation that y log y minus y is equal to log of y vectorial so this term here becomes n log n minus n and this is underneath so it will be minus small n log small n plus small n and similarly minus capital n minus small n log n minus n plus n minus n now we can get rid of these terms so our equation becomes n log n minus n log n now I'm going to rewrite this term here as n minus n plus n so I will bring together all the terms therefore and if I divide by Avogadro's number I get minus x log x minus 1 minus x log 1 minus x which is exactly the equation that we were trying to derive and that is a representation of configurational entropy okay and again it represents a degree of disorder because we started with a highly organized crystal where all the black atoms were on one side and all the red atoms were on the other side and then we looked at all other possibilities and that gives us the change in entropy when you go from a highly organized system that there is only one arrangement possible to many many possibilities you can imagine that if you have you know 10 to the power of 23 atoms in the system then the number of arrangements is very very large okay so that that was basically a substitution of this into sterling's approximation to derive this now in that particular example of the disordering of the crystal let's assume that there is no difference in the binding energies when we change from air bonds to BB bonds right in other words that this is an ideal solution that we form then what would drive that disordering process well you know the entropy change is zero if we say that there is no change in bond energy when we mix up the atoms but the reaction never the less happens when we mix the A and B atoms together and allow them to move so the entropy change is greater than zero and therefore the reaction happens in the direction of disordering so the enthalpy change by itself is not sufficient to decide on the direction of the reaction so we'll bear that in mind before I go before I do that you know we've got this equation for the differential change in entropy being dq over t and therefore we can work out the entropy change as we heat up the sample from t1 to t2 as simply cp over tdt so this is a quantity that you can measure directly using calorimetry so we need to define another function which actually tells us which direction the reaction can proceed in in a spontaneous manner and that is the Gibbs free energy here which is the enthalpy minus the temperature times the entropy so it is this quantity which must be reduced for a reaction to be able to occur spontaneously now this is at constant pressure if we weren't working at constant pressure but at constant volume then this would be replaced by the Helmholtz free energy which has a symbol f and this would be the internal energy u so you can see that the heat capacity is an extremely important parameter from an experimental point of view you can do measurements you can even measure the enthalpy change on that calorimeter that I described to you earlier and you know we routinely now use phase diagram calculations but all those calculations depend on thermodynamic data which at some stage were measured okay now what is the mechanism by which a material absorbs heat so you can factorize for metals you can factorize the heat capacity into three essential terms one is due to the lattice vibrations the vibrations become more energetic as the temperature is increased and that is a mechanism of absorbing heat secondly we have an electronic contribution because you know in metals the electrons some of the electrons are not bound to individual atoms they are able to move like an electron gas and therefore there's an ability to absorb energy and a magnetic term so if you have magnetic ordering and as you raise the temperature the magnetic spins tend to become disordered then that is also a mechanism for absorbing energy now I will repeat this many times in this series of lectures but in the case of iron body-centered cubic ion if we did not have this term here paramagnetic paramagnetic disordering as we go beyond the curie temperature then we would not have body-centered cubic ions stable at ambient temperature and pressure okay now just imagine your life without body-centered cubic ion it would be absolutely miserable okay so you owe magnetism for civilization in your lives now let me just comment on the magnitude of this and this okay so lattice vibrations follow what's known as the Boltzmann distribution so supposing you take a cylinder and you fill it up with ping-pong balls all right and they're all at rest and then you pump gas from underneath then all the balls will not rise to the same energy level okay there will be a distribution of heights to which the balls jump and that is a distribution which we call the Boltzmann distribution and there is no limitation on how many balls can occupy a particular energy state that is not the case for electrons you know for each energy band you can only have two electrons with opposite spins occupying that energy state and that's illustrated here so this is the Boltzmann distribution that I talked about earlier there's really no limit on how many particles can occupy a particular energy level but in the case of electrons only two can occupy any particular energy state so it is only the electrons that are close to what's known as the Fermi energy so at zero Kelvin you know these are all the occupied states and the maximum energy which is occupied at zero Kelvin is called the Fermi energy as we raise the temperature only those electrons in the vicinity of the Fermi energy can actually jump to higher energy levels so it's a very small fraction that can participate in the process of absorbing heat and this Fermi temperature for example for iron is something like 14,000 Kelvin all right so at that temperature you know you would have all the electrons participating in the absorption of energy but we are not going to get to 14,000 Kelvin so in general you know there's very little heat capacity from the electronic term the lattice vibrations the heat capacity follows a curve like this now this is what you might expect from a gas from a monoatomic gas which has different vibration modes okay three different vibration modes and therefore the heat capacity is three times n times k three degrees of freedom of vibration and it's at the divide temperature TD that a metal would begin to behave as if all the atoms are vibrating independently all right they're not constrained in a sense by the lattice but you know at lower temperatures one atom vibrating this way will obviously have an interference from other atoms around it so they tend to be a little bit more collective and therefore the heat capacity decreases as you go down in temperature now for iron the divide temperature is of the order of 400 degrees centigrade okay so this illustrates the point I was making earlier the dashed curve here represents the heat capacity due to lattice vibrations and the electronic term for alpha iron the body centric cubic form of iron and this curve here is all three terms the magnetic electronic and lattice vibrations and you can see there's a very large contribution from the magnetic term in the case of body centric cubic iron but the same applies actually for austenite that there is a magnetic contribution to the heat capacity which is quite significant so heat capacity is a really important parameter that we can measure directly and use in calculations these data actually are from carpentry and vice from the early 1950s where they showed you know bcc iron at ambient conditions then fcc iron and then reverting back to bcc iron which is very strange behavior and that is entirely due to the magnetic properties of iron so this is what I want to teach you today but learning thermodynamics can be a bit abstract so I'm going to show you now how you can immediately apply the knowledge from today to some of the latest research that's going on in the world so the first example I'm giving you is the so-called high entropy alloys okay so this was an idea originating I think from Brian Cantor where he wanted to work on alloys which contain equal concentrations of all the solutes or all the elements so there is no solvent and there is no solute all of the elements inside your alloy are equal concentrations and if you do that then you get a maximum configurational entropy assuming that all the atoms are mixed at random you get a maximum configurational entropy and there is a sense of confusion inside the alloy which kind of stabilizes a single phase even though we have a combination of 20 atomic percent of cobalt manganese iron chromium and nickel you end up with a single phase alloy and the reason why they're called high entropy is because if all the solutes are in all the elements are in exactly the same concentration then the entropy of mixing is at a maximum okay so it's very interesting this is the single phase in this complex alloy which is which has five different elements and even though the crystal structures are different so it's only nickel which has the FCC structure at ambient temperature this is cobalt is hexagonal close packed manganese has a unit cell with 58 atoms in it and we have body centered cubic iron and body centered cubic chromium even though the crystal structures are so different when you mix them in equal quantities you end up with a phase centered cubic structure exactly like nickel now that is good as we know you know there are many many slip systems and so forth so the materials should have good properties and this is just to show you that you know if i hadn't told you this was a high entropy alloy you might say it's copper or or just pure nickel but the properties are very good you know with a strength of one gigapascal a fracture toughness of 200 megapascal root meters and an elongation of 70 percent what is the next stage required in the development of this subject so my opinion first of all i should say that you know this this has been a story that it's a high entropy alloy but in fact this equation only applies to an ideal solution where there's no change in enthalpy when you mix the solids and that absolutely is not the case here so you will not get a random distribution of these atoms inside our alloy you will in fact get clustering or other phenomena so if you forget about the fact that it's high entropy but just focus on focus on the fact that we have equal concentrations of everything and we've obtained a single phase what is to stop us from exploiting these properties and that i think is where the subject is stuck and where much more research is needed is how do you scale up an alloy like this okay so that when you actually make it solidify you don't get segregation and many other complications which lead to precipitation and what application do i need this where i have such an expensive alloy okay so right now i would argue that there isn't a single application of high entropy alloys the science has essentially been done okay we can always you know dot the i's and cross the t's but if you want to be serious about this you need to be able to scale it up and to find an application which genuinely needs an alloy with this level of expense now the second example i'm going to give you and we are only using the information we've learned today okay so just after one lecture on thermodynamics so supposing that we have a defect for example a vacancy inside of a lattice then obviously the way in which we can make we can arrange the atoms onto this lattice increases dramatically because the vacancy can be located at any any of those sites and let's say that the energy required to create that vacancy is for one vacancy is delta g small g and n is the number of such defects this is a cost and the cost of creating a defect means that it doesn't really want to form however this term here actually favors the formation of that vacancy this is the configurational entropy which favors disorder that means more vacancies we put in there up to up to a limit the more configurations we will have and therefore you favor the formation of vacancy so these two terms here oppose each other so to find the equilibrium value you differentiate this with respect to the number of defects set it to zero and you get that the equilibrium number of defects is small n divided by the total number of sites I have here into the exponential of the energy of formation of a single defect divided by k at so what this shows is that you will always have defects at equilibrium right there is no way you can create a defect free material if you are at equilibrium and this of course is the reason why you get diffusion in the solid state right because it's the jumping of atoms into these vacancies which gives us the transport of atoms but much more importantly if you look at some work done back in 1956 on the strength of iron single crystals of iron then you can see that we can achieve strengths of the order of 15 gigapascals right by looking at single crystals of absolutely pure iron but the strength collapses as the size increases okay so this equation gives you a clue and is the two effectively a size here the number of entities as we increase the number of entities so will the number of defects increase and therefore the strength collapses to what we normally get for iron right so if you try to get strength by making something perfect and you know you can get a perfect crystal if you make it small enough in which case you have to rip the atoms apart and that's why it's so strong but as you increase the size the probability of finding a defect also increases and therefore the strength collapses and this is a lesson that was learned in 1956 and we could have saved literally hundreds of millions of pounds if people had studied this paper and some elementary thermodynamics because there was a lot of noise made when carbon nanotubes came about and the strength of carbon nanotubes was said to be 130 gigapascals which is basically the carbon carbon bond strength and a huge amount of money was wasted in trying to make carbon nanotubes as structural materials but of course there is a strength of 130 gigapascals when the tube is very very small but its strength collapses as you increase the size for exactly the same reason that very fundamental configuration entropy equation that we derived precisely the same applies to graphene as soon as you scale up the size of graphene its strength is lost so it's complete nonsense to talk about these materials as structural materials on the size scales that we are normally used to so thermodynamics is a very powerful tool with which you can actually influence your research and thinking and interpret news items you know because these stories made enormous on the graphene and the nanotubes made enormous news stories with ridiculous statements about how it is 200 times stronger than steel whereas an elementary thermodynamics equation would have told you that this is not actually a reasonable thing to say right now in the next lecture having defined all these quantities I will deal with equilibrium that means you know if I put two different compositions or two different lattices and compositions together how can we decide whether that will change that that initial configuration will change or not no matter how long I observe it so in the case of an allotropic transition in a pure substance we can we can plot the free energy the Gibbs free energy as a function of temperature and where they intersect they have equal free energy so there's no tendency whatsoever to change from one to the other and that clearly defines an equilibrium temperature but we very very rarely deal with pure substances so we need to think a little bit more about the nature of a solid solution in a multi-component system okay I'll end the talk now


Top U.S. Trade Negotiator Catherine Tai has confirmed the Biden administration's commitment to the World Trade Organization, saying consensus was possible on several trade and health proposals at a major meeting next month. The 25-year-old global trade body is facing questions about its relevance and Director-General Ungozio Cungeruela is on the pressure to deliver quick reforms and clinch its first multilateral trade deal in years at the November 30 to December 3 meeting. Many observers blame Washington for the paralysis of the WTO's top dispute settlement panel, whose Georgia appointments were blocked by the administration of former President Donald Trump. Let me begin by affirming the United States' continued commitment to the WTO. The Biden-Harris administration believes that trade and the WTO can be a force for good that encourages a race to the top and addresses global challenges as they arise. We all recognize the importance of the WTO and we all want it to succeed. We understand the value of a forum where we can propose ideas to improve multilateral trade rules. Hello. Hope you enjoyed the news. Please do subscribe to our YouTube channel and don't forget to hit the notification button so you get notified about fresh news updates.


Welcome to The Journey. I have a question for you. Is a four-day work week right for your business? Yes, Emma. It is. I agree. We're looking into, hey, how can we increase employee productivity and just like the overall experience? How can we enhance that for our employees? Yeah, I love working for GoDaddy, but honestly, the best part is the unlimited snacks. And just that little bit makes me so much more happier to come to work. Yeah, definitely. And if they can just add to the snacks, like, hey, you get Monday off once in a while, increase productivity, and overall satisfaction. That's a win-win right there. Also, I know companies are questioning not just the hours, do we cut back, do the four-day work week, but also just increase pay, more money, also more vacation time. I know that works really well for me whenever I come back from like a little vacay or get that bonus. I swear, my productivity goes through the roof. You hear that, boss? Give me a raise. It's funny how that works. Yeah. Another thing to consider, I start off just thinking like, oh, companies could go to a four-day work week. But another thing that I've seen is companies actually just increase the amount of hours or decrease the amount of hours in the day as well. I mean, for me, I think I'd prefer like the three-day weekend, but what about you? I agree. I'd rather work more in a single day, because I'm already pretty much doing that anyway most of the day. You're already there. Exactly. You've done the commute. Yeah, why not have a day where you can stay at home and your pajamas, you don't have to leave? That's what I would prefer. Totally. Or your robe. That's what I do. So let's talk about why businesses may be considering a four-day work week. Those millennials, it's really millennials, generation Zers, they all started to realize how important that work-life balance was to their overall mental health. I know when I come back from a nice vacation, like we had talked about, you're so refreshed and you're ready to get to work.  Definitely. Yeah, I noticed when I started to kind of ship towards this four-day work, like in my personal life, four-day work week, I noticed just the people I was around and my relationships, family, friends, et cetera. Like I was a more balanced person. And millennials, like myself, like we're super in tune with that. We don't want to isolate ourselves from our family and our friends. So I think we're onto something with cutting back the hours of the days of the week on the work thing. Yeah, and if you come into work with the right mindset, you're so much more better at your job and you're just exactly. So some businesses, when thinking about productivity and how to increase it, they've actually put some research into this and they've seen lowering the work day to, this is shocking, three hours. Three hours of work a day. I would be often an hour. That is actually increased productivity. All right, Emma, it's time for us to go clock out. I know, so we're done. All right, so now I want to dive into the pros and cons of a four-day work week. One that comes to mind, super obvious. Less time commuting, whether you're doing public transportation or you're in your sweet whip. Less time doing that, all for it. Yeah, and you can also save money as a business whenever it comes to heating, electricity, AC, any of those things. Save the environment.  I know my dwarf rabbit, Jack. He definitely appreciates when I'm around more. And I think that's the same for cats and dogs and animals of sort. But definitely think about your family and actually having you around more and what that does for your own mental stability. Yeah, my dog, Lainey, is definitely pro four-day work week. Yeah, more time at the park with mom, more quality time on the walks, longer walks. It's only fair. Also, aside from pets, back to us. Adulting, one thing that stresses me out about a five-day work week that I have to commute to and back from is when am I gonna fit in other things, going to the doctor, trying to stay healthy, just making other appointments, like my lease on my car is ending soon. And that used to stress me out so much when I had a five-day work week. I was like, what am I gonna fit this in to go return this vehicle that I don't want anymore? But things like that, adulting. Right, and you don't wanna spend your whole weekend taking care of those adulting things. Then you don't even get a weekend and you feel like it's over with and then you're having to try and schedule in those doctor's appointments throughout the week. Yeah, and then all of a sudden it's Sunday and you get the Sunday scaries. Do you ever get the Sunday scaries? Sunday scaries are real. It's a real thing.  And you didn't have that time to reset. So you go into work, productivity, meow, decrease on the decline. And one advantage, if you are considering a longer work day, like 10 hours so that you can have a four-day work week, is that you have more employees there to take care of all of those different opportunities. So I know I work in Texas and so there's people and clients that we need to talk to and all the way from the East Coast to the Pacific Coast. So, time zones. Exactly. So whenever you're staying later, you can handle more of those Pacific Coast clients. And earlier would be more Eastern time. Yeah, Hawaii, that's like five, six hours. Is it, I just remember calling Hawaii later because I'm on Pacific time and I would call Hawaii later in the day when I was a sales rep. Oh yeah, and they're just waking up, it's great. They're starting their day. So research shows that actually the 32-hour work week resulted in zero change of productivity. Yeah, so it's not always necessary to be in the office for 40 hours just because everyone else does it, right? So if they tell me I have to be there five days out of the week and I have the same amount of work to do, I'm just gonna make it last throughout five days. If I have four days to do the same amount of work, I'm gonna be a lot more productive and work with the times that work for me. So this reminds me of when I was on a psych course in college and they were talking about productivity with how students studied and what they got done in their day. And it was actually interesting because moms, you think, oh my gosh, they're so busy. Where will they find the time to study? But because they already knew going into it, like I gotta plan around my kid, picking up from school, dropping off at school, lunches, et cetera, they actually got more done. Yeah, they're basically super women. Yeah, basically super women within a timeframe. Also, better attendance. You only have to be there four days. So there tends to be an increase in actual attendance with that versus a five-day work week. Now, I guess we gotta kind of talk about some of the cons as well. Proposing cons. Yeah, we'll be fair. All right, so of course, everyone has to be on the same page in your office. And I know it's really different for everyone, right? So one thing might work better for one person and the other might work better for us. Yeah, and those employees that are like, no, I'm sticking to that five-day work week, they might risk the chance of them feeling alienated, right? Cause maybe a small percentage of your employees are still coming in on that Friday or that Monday, that fifth day of the week. And that can be definitely a con when it comes to this four-day work week versus five. So another con about the 10-hour work day might be too long, keeping you away from your families or moms away from kids. Yeah, exactly.   It's not really practical. And more importantly, if you have a kid that may not work with like your daycare schedule. So these are things you have to keep in mind. Definitely con. Also very interesting I noticed with California, where I live, is that if you do in fact have an employee that works past eight hours, the company has to pay overtime. So can you do that? Does that work with your schedule? Can you afford to? I might add up. The last con is you may have to hire more people to make up for that increased flexibility. So that's more benefits that you're having to pay for, more training, I mean, that's a lot of money. That's adding up. Exactly. So some trials have shown that this four-day work week can in fact be a good move for your company. And there's some research too if it's not implemented properly. It's not a great change. But overall, if your team's on board and you communicate this, I say give it a shot. And now you know some of the pros and cons of that four-day work week. So be sure to like this video, go ahead and share it with everyone, including your boss. Also comment below which pros and cons do you like and ring that bell to know about our next video as soon as it comes out. This is A Journey.


Okay, we're back, this is The Cube, SiliconANGLE.tv's continuous coverage of Dell Storage Forum 12. We're in Boston. I'm Dave Vellante with my co-host, Stu Miniman. We're here with Travis Vigil, who is the Executive Director of Dell Equalogic. Travis, welcome. Thank you. How are you doing? Good, thank you. So, the Dell Storage Forum's second year looks bigger and better, even. Yeah. And of course, it's in Boston. That's a good thing. So, it's our second combined Dell Storage Forum. And so, when I say combined, that's a combination of compelence to ecologic user conference in Dallas for customers, and it's just amazing to see what's going on here. Well, it's fantastic that, again, you chose Boston. We love the venue, and it looks like a good crowd. We were there this morning listening to the presentations to the channel partners. And that's always been your guys' home court, right? Right. So, what's your update on what's going on in Equalogic? Well, things are good in Equalogic. You know, Equalogic has been part of the Dell family for about four and a half years now. And in that timeframe, we've grown the number of Equalogic customers that we have from 4,000 to over 40,000 customers. We've continued to invest in Equalogic as a key part of Dell Storage.  It's a key part of the fluid data architecture as well. We have really continued to keep Equalogic industry leading in terms of application integration. We have integration with VMware that's second to none in the industry. We have integration with a lot of the key Microsoft applications, SQL, Exchange. We added integration to Linux.  You know, give me a product with enterprise class features, but make it so that a mere IT generalist can manage it. You know, I want all the features, but I have a lean IT staff, I don't have a lot of time to manage it, and so I just want it to work. And that's why we've focused on providing integration and ease of use with those applications that the majority of our customers are using with their Equalogic environments. So Travis, you talked about the VMware integration. I'm wondering if we can dig in a little deep on that. So I started working with VMware over 10 years ago, and Dell from the server side was one of VMware's biggest partners. From the storage side, as we've seen the acquisitions of Equalogic and Compellent come in, we've seen deeper integration and, you know, you're claiming second to none integration. Can you talk a little bit about that partnership and how closely you're working with VMware? Absolutely. The focus on integration for the Equalogic product line, it started even pre-acquisition. And since the acquisition, we've really doubled down on those efforts. And it started with vCenter integration in terms of management capabilities. We've done application consistency with VMware. We have support for site recovery, the site recovery manager solution. We have done some ease of use tools for VDI deployment. So we have a tool we call the Virtual Depth Top Deployment Utility. That helps speed deployment for VDI deployments using VMware. And we have been there with all of their major storage initiatives, VAI. We were one of the first partners to have support for VAI. VASA, we have support for VASA. And, you know, there's some exciting new things that are coming in the future that we're just starting to talk about. One of the new initiatives is VVALS, that's sort of the next generation of VAI, and we're working closely with them on developing that as well. Yeah, so the whole VMware storage ecosystem has really evolved. Yeah, absolutely. You know, three or four years ago, it was kind of a mess. I mean, it was really a difficult thing for customers to really deal with storage. I mean, it just was sort of like pushing the problem out. How has that changed? And, you know, what's the future hold? You mentioned VVALT. You know, what can we expect now going forward? Well, I... Wow. Sorry about that. No problem. We're expecting a big answer. Well, you know, I think that a big part of our success with Equalogic has been that focus on virtualized environments in VMware in particular. We have probably about 75, 80% of our customers that are running Equalogic in some sort of virtualized environment.  And you're right. You know, when you started seeing this huge inflection point of people on the server side moving to a virtualized environment, they wanted to go to shared storage so they could get some of the benefits that shared storage provides in a virtualized environment, like the ability to do V motion and some of the more advanced capabilities in a virtualized environment. They were looking for storage that was easy to use. And it was interesting because, you know, this was the first time a lot of these applications, the applications that were initially being virtualized were put on a SAM. And so it was really kind of a jump ball. It wasn't clear that you had to go on, you know, your traditional data set or SAM to deploy shared storage for a virtualized environment. So what we saw was a lot of projects being deployed, utilizing Equalogic as the back end for a virtualized environment. And really it's a big part of the success that we've had because of that intense focus on making sure that we're integrated and optimized in a very easy to use solution in a virtualized environment, VMware and Hyper-V. You mentioned Travis VDI before. Yes. So what's going on with VDI? I mean, you know, for a couple of years ago and even in recent history, it was kind of a nichey offering, right? It was very specialized on whether it was call centers or maybe certain financial applications, maybe, you know, government. We had to have highly secure. Is that changing from customers? Yeah, VDI is a very interesting application. You know, I personally think we're sort of on the, you know, at the precipice of the big adoption of VDI in the industry. And, you know, sort of like virtualization in the beginning, one of the issues that people have had with virtualized desktop deployments has been the storage. So we hear from our customers and our channel partners that, hey, I want to do VDI and the way I do it is I get a server, it has some DAZ in it. I do a proof of concept for 50 desktops, 100 desktops. It works fabulously. But then I try to scale it out and, you know, and I run into performance issues. I run into scaling issues, so on and so forth. And that issue to me is a perfect issue that can be solved by or an issue that can be addressed by scale-out architectures. Now, Carter was up here talking about scale-out architectures being one of the key tenets of the fluid data architecture.  And so you can do that proof of concept with a small Ecologic device and as you scale it out, you're able to scale performance and capacity linearly and you don't run into that, you know, I call it the VDI hangover issue where, you know, it worked great when it was small, but when I scaled it, I have all these manageability and performance issues.  I talked about the virtual desktop deployment utility that we have as part of our host integration tools for VMware. Also, we've launched and refreshed what we refer to as a hybrid array. And the hybrid array is an Ecologic array that has both SSD and spinning media in the same array. But most importantly, it has the intelligence in the array to make sure that the hot bits of data end up on the SSD. The cooler bits of data end up on the spinning media. So you can think of it as, you know, kind of tiering with an array. You know, obviously, compelling second to none in tiering in the industry. This is a very targeted offering for like a VDI deployment. And what we've seen is customers are able to get very big performance boosts because of using SSD in combination with spinning media. They're able to address a lot of the issues they've had around boot storms, a lot of the issues that they've had around scaling VDI deployments, you know, starting small and growing. And so, you know, with the hybrid array, with the ease of use, with the scale out architecture that we have on Ecologic, you know, we believe that we have an excellent solution that addresses many of the storage problems people have had with VDI traditionally. Yeah, Travis, you know, I've actually been quite impressed with Ecologic's VDI story. Back in 2010, you guys brought us Brown Shoe as a customer that had, you know, thousands of desktops that were transformed at VMworld. And they were using the hybrid array. Using the hybrid array. So, you know, when I've looked at VDI, there are kind of three things that kind of hold people back. One is they don't do a proper assessment going in and they run into that overruns and costs and they're not prepared. Sizing their users, you know, don't have the performance that they expect. Secondly, going from that pilot, as you said, to the production is usually different. A lot of people say, this is my test environment. When I go to production, it's different. And then I run into that gap. But your scale at architecture fits. And the third one I'm wondering if you can address quickly for us is, you know, who manages this? So, like we talked about from kind of traditional storage to virtualized storage, there's some of the blurring of the lines.  How do you guys see that fitting into the environment? Yeah, so, you know, I think with virtualization, what you saw was that the virtualization team ended up owning both the servers and the storage for virtualization deployments. I think, you know, it's still a bit of a known on VDI, but, you know, my guess is, and what we're seeing more and more of is, again, the virtualization team is owning the entire enterprise portion of the deployment. You know, we talked about VDI, we didn't talk much about the endpoint. Talked a lot about the, you know, the backend infrastructure because that's where people have been having the issues in terms of sizing, assessment, and scaling. And so, you know, specifically to your question, you know, I believe it's going to be the virtualization team that ends up owning that.  The server virtualization team. That's right. Yeah, that's right. Despite the changes at the endpoint with mobility. Yes, yes, specifically to the backend. Yeah. Because the, you know, I think the ownership between the backend and the front end is yet to be determined, but certainly on the backend, the planning, the assessment, the delivery of that has got to be owned by the server virtualization team. And what in your, what's your sense of how the endpoint is changing the requirements? Because when you think of desktop virtualization, you think of a very, you know, update intensive environment, much different than a server virtualization environment. How is mobile changing that? You know, I think it all goes back to the sizing and the performance assessment up front. You know, what we're seeing, you know, VDI sizing and benchmarking is still pretty nascent, but we're seeing is that there's a couple of two or three different performance sizing profiles that are coming out, you know, kind of the task worker, the call center type worker, and moving forward, I think you're going to have to have a third one for the mobile worker as well.  Great, so Travis, I'm wondering if we can switch back to kind of the general Dell storage discussion. You know, so we know through the acquisitions of equal logic and compelling, Dell's put a lot of effort in still building out those engineering and developing. We heard in the keynote today, they said, you know, we don't want you to think so much of products and we want you to think it's Dell storage. So can you give us a little bit of the inside baseball as to what you've seen the last couple of years? Yeah, absolutely. You know, Carter came up, was here, and he was talking about, you know, how going forward with Dell storage is going to have an identity. And it's going to be less of an identity of equal logic or compelling or any of any of the companies that we've acquired. And you know, it's very important that there are some key capabilities that we have in these products like tiering on compelling or scale out on equal logic or ease of use on equal logic that will become part of the Dell storage portfolio identity. And so you're starting to see that blurring, you know, even with what we're doing with our file system offerings. We have a fluid file system support for equal logic. We have fluid file system support for Power Vault. And maybe if you stick around here, you might hear some more updates about fluid file system support on some other stuff. And so you're going to see that as a link across the portfolio, common and consistent file system, common and consistent deduplication, which Carter also talked about, as the foundation that starts to tie at least all of the primary storage offerings together and provides the foundation on which you can build, you know, cross-platform tiering. So that same tiering concept that you have on a compelling device, you can extend that across the portfolio even going all the way to our archival products like the DX product, for example. So you're starting to see that develop and that is absolutely where we're making the investments in R&D going forward to provide a Dell storage portfolio. I mean, I personally like the emphasis on integration. A lot of people give lip service to integration. My sense is Dell is really serious about it. I want my last question, I wish I had more time because I got some tweets here too, but to talk about the flash, so I can envision, you know, at least five layers of flash.  You know, maybe there's some of those blend, but it seems to me that's a software challenge now. And you mentioned compelling and sort of the gold standard, if you will. You know, data movement, they invented the whole concept. I guess IBM mainframe has invented it, but Dell, I mean, a compelling product to the masses. In the context of that integration, that feels like a whole new challenge for you guys. Right, talk about that a little bit. Well, you're right. You're going to see flash at all places in the ecosystem, in the server, in the storage, you know, and it's going to serve different purposes of acceleration depending on where you put it, right? You know, we see a real big opportunity given that Dell is an end to end provider of server storage and networking to have flash in the server as sort of a tier zero capability. And, you know, we've done a lot of work on making the flash in the server more usable on the server side, but sort of the holy grail is, you know, how do you make it such that the flash in the server is a logical extension of, say, a compelling sand, right? And it has the same manageability and the same benefits of traditional external storage. And so, you know, I would expect that you will be hearing more about that, potentially here at this conference, and it's a very big focus for us going forward.  Yeah, Travis, actually, if I can get a question in here too, we've been having some discussions on Twitter about the SMB market and was wondering if you can help us kind of tease apart how equal logic and like Power Vault, how Dell looks at the SMB market and where you kind of see that fitting. And if I may, so there's a tweet that I got that I wanted to respond to. It was from D. McVitty. He said, I'm an equal logic fanboy, but last time I checked, it's a little expensive for most SMBs. I wonder if you could respond to that as well. Yeah, so, you know, the interesting thing is we use sort of SMB as a generic customer segment. And what you see is within SMBs, you have people that are extremely small and are just looking for an easy way to add some external storage. And you see customers that have storage needs that a lot of large enterprises have. And M is really different than S a lot of times. Absolutely, absolutely. M is different than S. And so, you know, equal logic has never been the acquisition price leader. What we've been is the TCO leader, right? So we have all inclusive software capabilities. So all of the integration, all of the advanced features, you know, all of that comes if you're an equal logic customer on a valid support contract. And then the scaling capability, the ease of use in scaling, and the long-term investment protection you get from the scale out architecture are really our values. So, you know, the target customer for equal logic is, you know, I potentially have small external storage needs today, but I'm fast growing. And that manageability is the thing I need first and foremost, right? I probably don't have a storage department. I probably have an IT guy and it just needs to be easy to use, right? And so I'm willing to pay for those features and benefits because of the fact that I will save money in the long run in terms of manageability. Now, Power Vault on the other hand is, there's a lot of customers that just need cost-effective external storage.  They live in our public segment, they live in LE. And so we actually sell the Power Vault product across, you know, all of those business units. So there's really very different uses for each of those products. Yeah, so if you're a super small company and storage is not strategic, you may be not growing, equal logic might not be for you. That's right. But if you've got some constraints on your business as a result of storage growth, then equal logic is probably a better fit. That's right, that's exactly right. Good. All right, Travis, well listen, thanks very much for taking time out of your busy schedule here at Dell Storage Forum for coming on theCUBE. It was great to have you. And welcome back anytime. All right, thank you very much. All right, keep it right there. This is theCUBE, SiliconANGLE.tv's continuous coverage of Dell Storage Forum. We'll be right back.