It is Monday, October 30th. It's the Moortown Select Board. We're here at the Pogba Meeting Room. We're on Zoom as well, and we've got Orca broadcasting as well. So we'll get going ahead. We've got a lot of the agenda and fairly big crowd for us of four people. So we'll look for general public comment. If there's anyone online that has general public comment, just raise your hand if you would. All right, see you in there. And feel free, folks, to interrupt. Sometimes I try to keep an eye on it, but sometimes I don't. Yeah, I'll get people here. This gentleman was here first. Are you with for general public comment, sir? Okay, yes, sir, with the mask on. In your name, please. My name is Bill Zeekus. Bill Zeekus. All right, Mr. Zeekus. Go ahead, we've got a few minutes. When you take general public comments, I just want to ask you a question about the ARPA funds. Yeah, sure. Okay. So my name's Bill Zeekus. I live in Moortown. I visited the town court office last week because I wanted to see if the town would be willing to distribute some ARPA funds for the Neighborhood of Valley Senior Citizens Organization, which actually administers the Neighborhood of Valley Meals on Wheels program. And I'm on the board of the Neighborhood of Valley Senior Citizens Program. I'm also a driver for Meals on Wheels.  And so that's why I'm here. Thanks, do you have a written proposal of what you're looking for? I don't have something that I could hand in but I could certainly provide that for you. I could certainly talk to it right now. Okay, why don't you take a couple of minutes and talk to it and then we can go from there. Sure. Okay, well, I'm trying to do some research on that. I looked and saw that the town did have an ARPA committee and found it in the document relating to that that the town had something like $497,000 to potentially spend. And now I have no idea if decisions were to be made and certain amounts were to be made or not. But then I went to the Vermont League of Cities and Towns website to try to get a feel for what ARPA funds used for. And they were talking about the fact that the legislative bodies had discretion over how to spend their own funds. And so I thought, well then maybe I should talk about how I thought we might qualify for the Meals of Valley Senior Citizens and Meals of Wheels. It said in one of the ways that funds could be used was for government services which can include public safety. And I can tell you that as a driver for meals on meals when I do the meals, I know some of those people, that's pretty much the big meal of the day. It's definitely a matter of public safety for a number of people. And it also said that funding is tied directly to the impacts of the pandemic. And one theory that happened with the pandemic is inflation. We're all seeing it. And certainly my reputation is seeing it, especially in our food and packaging costs. And as I said, I can give you something to write in, but just right there, we just finalized our budget for the coming year, which starts for us on October 1st. So it creates into it. And in that, we see that our food and packaging costs last year alone rose by 38%, which meant for $39,000 to $54,000, which was $15,000 in one year. Of course, we expect them to rise in the next year. How many folks here in Mortown do you serve on your meals? Right now, we serve eight people in one. Now, how can we actually come to that a little bit?  But mine go at this with probably 40 to 45 people through the whole manager group that we serve. And as I say, some people go off, some people come on, it's a bit of a moving thing, although it's not like they go off and on and again. Right. Our overall budget costs for the coming year are rising 36% from two years ago. For us, that's $42,000 in just two years. So our expected shortfall for the coming year versus our revenues that we expect to, we currently expect to raise is $20,500. So we're obviously going to do everything we can from the standpoint of fundraising. And I think we can find where we're applying for it. But we also figured, you know, we looked to see if we could get some support from the town from the server, which is Mortown faced in Waitsfield and Wall. So we're going to each town to see any other side. But the most important thing that I saw on the Monty in the Cities and Towns website is it said that towns are all using ARP funds for, according to the support for local nonprofits, the excellent work that benefits residents. And I went, they go. And I thought we qualified. And so specifically because I figured, you know, we wanted to have a lot of Mortown residents. And so right now we're currently serving eight Mortown residents who deliver five days a week, but we actually deliver seven meals a week because we give them two frozen so that they can get through the week. And I will say, we are foodable. The drivers will have to make volunteers. Nobody gets reversed from mileage, which was serious, it was minimal. And we also provide common good lunches so people can come on Tuesdays to the Evergreen Center in Waitsfield and get free lunch. And I think they do it, I think, partly they do it for the free lunch, partly I think they do it for the social benefits of just being with other people. And we do that, it's all fun, all of that. I'm sure some Mortown folks come to that, but you know, I don't have the numbers for that. But I just kind of played with the number a little bit and I just said, you know, if we're talking $4 cost a meal, and I think that's really low based on what we're seeing in these days, but I figured I'll just be, I'll take the low side, $4 a meal for eight residents for the year, that's $11,680 just in costs. So given that, I thought we ought to come here and if it would be possible, we'd ask if you could give us $10,000. So you'd have a shortfall of $20,000, you'd go into all towns and you'd ask for us for $10,000. I would have to come up with that number. Like that, I mean, we knew that there's, we saw $497,000, we knew, okay, so presumably there are some funds there. The thing is, $10,000 is just a one-time shot. That was a mother! That's... Sorry about this. Somebody's got a joke. Tell me you got this muted here. It's a really good question, is it how we came up with that? And honestly, we don't know what each town will give us. We also know it's a one-time request. That's what we can tell. And that would help us this year. And if we could ban some of that, it will help us through the challenges we're going to face in the coming years. You know, grants, contributions, the things that we do get. Some of that is temporary, especially in the time of inflation, so people are finding a harder time to do that. Well, what I've got, any more questions? I'm on a committee, and I believe our committee is meeting on Wednesday to discuss different funding. And this is our public funding, right? We are meeting on Wednesday, right? I believe it is this Wednesday. I believe it is this Wednesday. So, you know, if you could put, I think we need something a little bit more structured, as far as, you know, I've reached for a number, and this is the number. I don't think that's going to cut it, you know? I think you need to know. All right, it doesn't cut it with me anyways. Sure. We need, I need to know what the money, how much money you need, and how you're going to resolve this problem in the long term, because this is a one-time deal. You know, if we give you $10,000 next year, that really only solves the problem this year. What are you going to do next year? So, you've got a long-term problem. You can't expect a short-term fix, you know? I don't think. So, you need, in my opinion, come up with something a little bit more substantial. Here's the number. Yeah. Okay, and so your meeting is Wednesday. Yes. Are you saying, you know, I wasn't sure what I needed to do tonight. Are you saying that she'd like something in the writing? That would be helpful. Yeah. Helpful. Okay. And who do I, how do I, do I get the two or? If you, I guess bring it here to the town office. Okay. And turn it to Sasha, and she could pass it on. Okay. Yep. All right. So, that group will be meeting on Wednesday. They'll make recommendations here to the select board. And that's an ongoing process. So, if you don't have all your information by Wednesday, but certainly the sooner, the better.  And maybe find out, I mean, most of these groups are coming with calculations that are, you know, by town and percentage of, you know, residents using the services, as opposed to your budget spending and such like that. So, it's a little easier for us to get around the number, that number that you kind of pull down like that. You know, we probably like something like that. I guess we need to go up to the top. I'm going to go up. Okay. So, I'm going to wake up. So, you have a little bit more time to put something together. Okay? Okay. Would it be helpful to attend to your meeting? I think we'll, again, I think it's at 6.30. 6.30? Okay. On the 12th? On the 12th. Okay. Am I right? 6 or 6.30? 6.30. Yeah. All right. Thank you very much. Very good.  The last step for meeting, all we had to do was bring to Java and turn 13 in the loop on how to read. The deadline has come long. It was last Monday. The spec board said they were open to emergency meetings. So, we could file paperwork with the court to file a court order. Is there anything else that can be done? Good. We have, actually on the meeting agenda tonight at 7.15, we're going into an executive session to discuss what has been happening with our lawyer in the last week. So, there's not much I can tell you, just because it's legal stuff, but I can't, no, it was on the agenda that I approved on last Friday. So, I can't tell you again, it's confidential stuff, but it is working towards a resolution. We got to discuss everything with the board tonight and we'll make a decision of what we're doing after the executive session. So, I'll make a different decision that was made two weeks ago the last time. I wasn't here for that discussion. I saw it on our meeting notes, but this is all due, stuff that our lawyers bring into us. So, it's going to be discussed to decide upon. You suggested that we file a court order. Yeah, this came about after last meeting. I felt that there was no reason for an emergency meeting. At least Juan and Shen was gonna think that we needed an emergency meeting. Okay, but the deadline has come and on and the next step would be to file a court order. That's correct. Gentlemen, next we'll be together. All right, check if there's no other general public comment. All right, so we'll go ahead and move on to the agenda. It was Sherilyn Brown, the treasurer here with the health insurance. Just right at the end here, Smith. Please. So, it's time to renew the health insurance again this year and Craig has gone over different policies and everything and he highly recommends that we continue staying with what we have currently. In 2021, we were, if you guys remember, we were able to get money refunded back to us if our claims and stuff were going well. So, we ended up getting $3,300 in 2021 for 2020 claims. And as of right now, the numbers aren't in until the end of September, but we are still have a surplus for 2022 claims of $1,700. So, the difference in the policy because everything is going up as everybody knows with COVID, the hospital budgets were reduced and they're much higher than usual for 2023 because of everything that we've been going through. So, the increase will be $7,600. So, he highly recommends that we stay with what we have and we have to sign up for it. We're on a deadline. So, if you look at the surplus, what we're really not going to be, if that surplus stays the same, we're really not going to be increasing. What's the $7,500 increase? $7,600 increase. I have these for you too. That's a little bit high. So, we're going to give these to you. Same policy, not any more insurance? No, exact same policy that we have now. So, if we look at the common and the 2021 plan with words in black, that's what we currently have. If you go over to the middle where it says 2023 plan, that's the same exact plan that we have now but with the increase. You didn't get this any smaller, huh? Sorry. I was going to say that too. Well, you want some more light? Funny, funny, funny. No, I don't. I can't read that. So, when is, when is, when do we have to make a good decision? I have to have it back to them. These rates that we're getting are only valid until October 27th. So, if we don't sign up, there's a good possibility that the rates could go up. And he did look at other possibilities and there was nothing that was comparable to what we have. He said that there's no other option that is as simple as we have now and we'll have more out of pocket to empty to the employees if we switch. And there's going to be fewer people next year, right? No. Probably. That's just right now. There we go. So, if we go with the renewing our policy, did you say it's an 8.4% increase? Yeah. No, it's actually it's 11.1%. See the next one? Yeah, it's 11.1% here. Yeah, it's 11.1%. An 8.4 is down to more. Right, but the whole, the difference overall is 11.1%. The overall is 11.1%. Right. I think 8.7 is about 3,300. Right. But the regaining that we get back. Oh, okay. I'll get you. I don't know anything. Savings could keep it well. Exactly where we're at right now. And it all depends on the claims that come in between now and then. Did you say December or September? Just now, at the end of December of 2022 for the 3,300 of that. The 3,300 came in in 2021 for 2020 claims. So it's basically, we don't get our refund until the following year. So when we put it in our budget for this and the claims come back, it'll offset. Right, and through September gone, there's 70 to 100. Yeah, that's okay. This year. Now I'm getting sick. Right. So if you decide that you want to stay with us, this is what needs to be sent back to Cric. Why don't we go ahead and make this decision now? I don't think, Ray, did you have any reason why you didn't wanna? Yep. No, I would like to make the motion that way. Thank you. That's right. That's a couple of questions. Refresh me again. What's available through the week? The. Through VLCT. The VLCT is Vermont Health Connect with Blue Class Blue Shield. And he looked into that and it was gonna cost the town more money. And the policy wasn't. Did you take anything from the league? I have not received anything from them. And, but he went in and looked at it and he said that it also wasn't gonna benefit the employees. It was not as good at the health insurance that we currently have. Okay. He said it was gonna be a lot longer. I kinda wish you'd gotten in touch with me prior to this. I just barely got this. Well, if you wanna go ahead and wait, John, we can, our next meeting is prior to the due date on this. Yeah, you have it right there. Yeah. Well, I wouldn't want to jeopardize what's going on either. No, well, quote expires on October 27th. Okay. Yeah. So we have another meeting. Yeah. So. Right. I'll be away. Well, I think you can do the research that you wanna do. That's what you're, I know you're retired, but because you've done that, I think you should give me the shot to take a look at it. Okay. Make sure due diligence not gonna cost us anything to take a look. Do you want me to take that back then and hold on to that? So it doesn't get lost. This? Yeah. No, I just barely received this. I think it was Friday, John. Otherwise it would have called you for a meeting. All right. Is there anything else that we should go about of been, Cherylyn? No. Or that John should know? Not that I think I'm aware of. All right. So let's go ahead and move on with it. John, take, look at that. And Cherylyn, if you could work with John with VLCT just to get something. Yeah, I haven't received anything from them yet, which is really odd. From the blue plastic shield help. Normally they send stuff out and have it, yes. Well, it doesn't mean that they sent everybody not only not just people that are already with them, usually. Usually I get something with all, everything and I haven't yet. Just don't forget those minutes. I will not forget. My mate. I thought there was a change in the minutes. All right. So let's go ahead on the agenda. We're close to being on time. We have Clark who's on Zoom who had a, what'd you say, a doozy of a cold, Clark? Correct, sir. All right. Well, thank you for not coming in. Everyone appreciates that. So go ahead. I want to talk about the village wastewater. Yes, I am. Not much of an update. The Sheryl Lynn was gracious to meet with me about a month ago or so and work on the loan application, which is now that iteration is in with Tom Brown for him to take a look at and see where we are at. And so far I have received or the town has received a soils map of sorts from Otter Creek indicating certain properties in town that might be worth looking at in terms of possible sighting, meeting possible test pits and that sort of thing. And so at this point, I'd like to talk with Otter Creek before we take the next step in terms of talking with some of the land owners, property owners, just so I know a little bit more about how to explain the process and that kind of thing. And it's been a little challenging getting in touch with Otter Creek the last few weeks. So that's been something that I need to resolve as well so that we can feel like things are moving on. At least I understand or we understand a little bit more about what's going on from there and let's see. I did clarify and I think I may have sent this to you, Tom, the explanation about the zero interest loan and the town will not be on any kind, there's no expectation for the town to repay the loan. In this case, the feasibility study could be shelled possibly and not acted upon and the town is under obligation to pay for the feasibility study. Now I say shelled, that don't necessarily mean put away and forgotten but just the information is there for the town to use at some point and it could be proceeding with discussion about whether or not to take a look at bonding and other funds to build such a system and build community support or it could be that based on the estimation of the cost and available funds that waiting might be a better option. But at this point, we're hoping to try to get some test bits dug before the end of probably the, early to mid December or so before things really kind of freeze up and become unavailable. And once I get an indication back from the state in terms of how we've done so far and filling out the loan application, there's elements of that that need to be completed by Otter Creek and then we can send it in and then the negotiation at that point begins in terms of what the scale of the feasibility study will be in terms of costs. And in that case, since the state is fronting that money, they're the ones that will be working with Otter Creek. I mean, with the town as well, but mostly with Otter Creek to come up with what they plan on with the feasibility study is going to cost. So that's where we are at. I'm hoping that by the probably in a couple of weeks to have some conversations with some landowners and see whether people might be interested in having, it's a tricky, it's not necessarily a sell, but just making sure that I can explain adequately what their options would be if they are willing to have some test pits dug on their property. Part of the explanation is that there is money available to purchase property for such a system. And that purchase would not be funded by the town. In this case, there would be state funds that would be available for that. But at what rate, whether it's fair market value or trades value, I'm not sure. That's something that we would, that's one of the questions I need to find out before we proceed. So in a nutshell, that's, that is where the process is at this current time. Good. It sounds like you're slowly making progress. And you hope to meet with Otter Creek sometime in the next week to get that cleared up, kind of come to work together. Yeah, we need to just make sure that we get a regular schedule put forth so that we can check in on a routine basis. Right. Clark, after our conversation last week, I did reach out to Otter Creek. Unfortunately, I didn't have any more look muted. I really don't know what's going on. I don't know what's going on with Robert. But I did, I had his, I have his personal phone number and I left a message. So I'm quite sure he got it. I just don't, I don't know. Well, I'll follow up tomorrow and be a little bit more insistent that we. Yeah. Yeah. And I'll reach out to him again too. I wasn't sure if we could hold you a knot and didn't tell me, but I was going to call you, but I did. Okay. So we both start aiming at him, you know, hopefully. Yeah. Okay. We're going to have any questions. I don't think so. So Clark, there's nothing you need from us going forward here. No, I just wanted to do an update. And I guess I probably should do one at the, the first meeting in November as well. So. And I apologize for. Being unavailable on the 19th. That was my, my mistake. So I apologize for that. All right. Worked out just fine. All right. Well, thank you. I hope you get well. Take care of yourself. All right. Thank you very much. So long. My car. John, you want to grab a seat? Coming. All right. So we'll move ahead. We have at 635. And we're a little head, but that's good. We have the king consulting. Inquiring about a legal trail. So. We've got Governor McCain on zoom. Is there anyone else with him tonight? And you are. Say again. Josh. We'll be right back. John, you want to grab a seat? Come in. All right. So we'll move ahead. We have at 635. And we're a little head, but that's good. And we're a little head, but that's good. And we're a little head, but that's good. And we're a little head, but that's good. And we're a little head, but that's good. Josh. Josh. All right. Mr. McKinnon, go ahead. Sure. So my client, who is Joshua bureau. Has a piece of ground off of the more town mountain road, which is accessed by legal trail 11. And then a right of way through private land. So in order to get access to his land, he'd like to upgrade about a thousand feet of legal trail 11. And he's a good friend of mine. And he's a good friend of mine. And he's a good friend of mine. And he's a good friend of mine. And he's a good friend of mine. He's in the real world. So folks. You know, we're having an idea of where that looks like. I think legal trial 11 as it continues through actually connects into herring Brook Road. Above a John Brook Road. But we're not going nearly that far. Like I say, above a thousand feet. So this the purpose of this inquiry is to ask you folks. What do you need for Josh to be able to do that? Yeah, I'm not sure. But I'm not sure I'm sure. I'm just not sure. I'm just not sure what it's going to be. It's going to be a matter of asking and he's, he can go in and do the improvements. Just asking those questions and start that ball rolling. So I guess that's the question for you guys. Is it, do we need to do more than just submit a couple of forms. What kind of information would you like to see? Oh, sure. We do have. in the road, roadways form. Let me have that online. We can also get that from Cheryl in. Yeah very easy. Martin our road foreman will also have some input on really what needs to be done on the trail. We've had recent circumstance on the other side of town where someone's building out on what used to be a legal trail or still is a legal trail. So Ray has worked with Martin and the land owner to make sure that it's going to be able to provide access and egress for emergency vehicles. That's one of the important things that we're finding that we need to be doing on these. Martin did you have any? I'd want that trail with another potential land buyer. It's very easy to see where the trail appears to be as an old logby road that they built what looks like somewhat parallel to what would actually be a legal trail. So I think the tricky part of that is knowing exactly what you're upgrading, you're not dumping money into something that is not a legal trail and then find out, you know, few court proceedings that you've just dunked a lot of money into some of these properties that's not town property. That's going to be the tricky part of that one thing. Have you had any surveys done at all, Josh? I don't believe so on that part of the right way. I think that was going to bring up the same topic, Martin. I don't know if we know exactly where the right way is up through there. It's been used quite a bit. It's been moved over. It really needs to be surveyed, I think, in this case, I think by the person who wants to do the work and make sure that it's in the right of eye. Yeah, and then I think that's the trickiest question is make sure where it is. And then, I mean, we don't have any opposition here. I don't think to doing the work as long as it's done, again, with safety involved, you know, that we know that the analysis and fire equipment can get it out. That's the standard we've been using. We've got actually the planning commission and some of the RV members come tonight to talk about these type of things. So probably the quicker, the better for you to go. All right, so if I couldn't understand everything that was being said in the background, just because of the Zoom microphone and whatnot, but we wouldn't work with Mr. Martin as the road foreman to make sure. We're understanding what the upgrades are after we go in and do a survey to make sure we understand exactly where the road is. Is that what I understand? Yeah, Mr. Cameron and Martin Cameron. Yeah, that would be correct. Is anyone else have any other thoughts on that? That sounds like that's the route we should go. I'd be glad to work with Martin as well. In fact, I hope you might be a part of this. As you were on the other road over here, so it's probably a good idea. In there, you can go back and you can go talk with Martin and Ray here. I think there was a couple little pull-offs that we provided in case people are traveling back and forth, but we're not looking to make you jump through hoops or do anything crazy, but it needs to be done to a certain degree that the road foreman and Ray who's worked with, who just retired from DuVoise as an engineer, you know, if you can work with them and you know where it is, you know, you can push forward. Mr. Cameron. All right, so any other questions right now? Um, sort of out or are we going to move forward? All right, sir. Josh. And we'll now move on. So now we have a discussion with the DRB, the planning commission, and road department on issues with class four and legal trails. So you're saying you'd like to do that before? All right. All right. I'll make a motion to appoint you. To reappoint. All right, I'll favor the motion. All right. Thank you, Sasha. All right. John, why don't you, Greg, John, Deborah, sorry, Martin, why don't you guys move up around the table here? Greg, go ahead as well. Oh, that's fine. That's, that's good. Well, first I want to thank everyone. You know, we don't, as a group, get together with the other boards that often. Uh, so I'm pleased that a couple of, I know we've got Dave Stapleton online as well. And step on the fire department chief, who usually has a lot to say about these type of issues as well, Martin. But in general, I wanted to talk about issues that you just saw come before us. And John, I know we've had some discussions with you about as far as our legal trails, class board roads. And now that people are really looking for land and starting to purchase these parcels, you know, do we need to do anything as a board to make sure we're doing the right thing, I guess. Is that a question? Yeah, it is kind of a question. We need some direction, I guess, as a slide board. Well, I mean, obviously the select board, you might have authority over class board roads and legal trails and whether they're going to be reclassified or permitting work to be done with them. And I think it's always good to try to make it consistent. It's ad hoc.  But, you know, I would encourage you to have policy in place. If what you basically the feedback gave Josh and kind of retaining about legal trail leaven, you know, try to sort of not make it maybe some of you some other ten or perhaps a policy uses the term adopt. Yeah. John, Demi, comments? Oh, well, I mean, you know, we do have the class for road policy. In fact, but we wanted to review that.   And historically, it's more of a problem with legal trails. Because we were just discussing most of the time, we don't know where the trail actually goes. Because he's changed over the years. And and in class four, oftentimes, you know, people expect us to do what they've done, what we have done in the past. And it's just with so many people moving in class four roads. We just can't afford to do that. So, you know, we need something, I think, in place where we can make sure that, you know, people know that's one of the problems that we've had is that people buy land and so on and think that, you know, they can just move there and people will take care of the road. And that's not the case. Right. So, I think we need an overall plan going forward. Because it's like a class four A and B. So, that's, you know, as a more for the road maintenance, I think, my feelings on it are that it's definitely become a much more problem in the last five years, even a lot of development happening on the legal trails and town trails. Most of the time, it's fairly dry. And if they, you know, when I get a curb cut or something, I'm not looking at myself as enforcement on zoning or ordinances in town. I'm just looking at it from a road standpoint. If then you cover, you know, cover needs to be provided. What we have run into a little bit lately is people that have built on class fours will call in month season and say, I can't get to, you know, use the emergency vehicle and caveat. And, you know, it's frustrating that they chose to live where they do with less than desirable road conditions and then want to try to use that. So, something I don't know if we can catch them in the zoning or permitting phases of this, you know, to just try to nip these. This legal trail 11 is a very, going to be a lot of interesting parts with that just because what little research I've done, it does look like the legal trail is about 20 feet to 50 feet from a woods road that was put in. Now obviously so many logon that's kind of being used as the de facto legal trail now, but whether that landowner would have every right to block access as because it's not, at least according to the maps, it's not where the legal trail is. So, it's definitely an issue for all of them, but this one definitely is a tricky one. Was this the only legal trail where there was uncertainty about where the road actually was? I don't know. It's more common than not. I mean, even our other roads have history of landowners saying, you know, the road used to be over there and shifted, you know, five, seven feet one way or another over the years. So then those roads are technically surveyed either, so we don't really know. We're just going with the assumption that we're in the right way. In some cases it's five to seven feet, in other cases it's way way off. Exactly, when you come to the legal trails in the class fours, commonly what happens is either there was an erosion event where it washed out a part of the road, somebody just went 30 feet around and say where a tree came down and they just started driving around and now you're 50 feet off of what was the legal trail and that's now kind of accepted as legal trail, but legally it wouldn't be if it was surveyed or that original trail wasn't where the road was to begin with. So it's definitely interesting, frustrating, frustrating dynamic because of the development that, I mean it's the cheaper of the land that's available now, so it's appealing. It's I think going to be more commonplace as we move forward. I agree. It seems to me that we needed to just have something that people would so that they would realize where their bank realizes that they're going to loan the money that you're on a class four road to B and it means this or you're on a trail and it means that because I'm not sure, it just doesn't seem people are aware of where they find the land and then like Martin said they get a phone call and they make the phone call, oh I can't get into my house when it's all money. I think that's the question that's why we've asked. We're not sure whether to have it on the planning commission side where all right you guys come up with ordinance if you're going to build in off of legal trail or do we have it on John's side in the DRB where he puts all right you can do it but these are the restrictions and this is what you need to do. So it ends up coming to here because Martin hears about it and all of a sudden someone needs you know three loads of stay mats so it's safe to get to their home you know and they have a permanent home and they didn't know about it and so there's plenty of strut residences out there that were built years ago on class four legal trails and what we're finding now is those residents have sold to somebody new who's come in and perhaps the previous landowner wasn't forthcoming with information I mean recently this winter first snowstorm second snowstorm fall rains when are you going to plow such and such a lot we don't follow that well we were told that the town was clear so that's what it's going to look like yeah what was what was frustrating to me particularly the cognitive issue was that I think it was to me it was clear in our zoning that they had to go to DRB to get the permit especially and fix the road and somehow that the owner never never never followed the process and that's particularly frustrating if they get a permit application they have to know the procedure somehow and I know our last only new experience was left a lot to be desired but I guess we've got to stop that from happening when an application that application the applicant needs to know right at that point what he needs to do or they need to do all right and again back to the content about I don't think that was the fault of any but the zoning administrator not following the truth yes um but what we're more looking for is are those things that they need to follow through on or is this something again that we we just wait and we push it off to john's proof of the DRB and hope that they come up with you know the permit requirements did you have an idea correct me if I'm wrong but I'm pretty sure that the zoning regulations are silent on legal trials right we don't have anything in our in our box of what pushes something to the to the DRB for for the review or what stays with the zoning administrator it's silent right yeah pretty much I think there is some mention but it's very ambiguous I think right well there's a section in the ordinance that talks about if any development is proposed that the access is via something other than a class one two or three row or a state highway the development has to go to the development newborn for conditional use well it's not conditional use um but the only criteria we are asked to look at is basically issues of safety safety traffic lock configuration road and site conditions and then we get imposed conditions right up to your point so usually it's a residence that's proposed and you know usually the condition we impose is that you know we try to make sure that the width of the right of way is sufficient um and the ordinance doesn't really tell us but I think based on my experience I think we've suggested a minimum of 30 feet so that you have space for a travel way and ditching to the extent we did and to be able to push snow and two that the landowner maintained that such that it's the the house location is accessible by emergency vehicles all season this coming year um so you know I think if there's going to be changes and you want the development newborn to look at other things and development is proposed on a fast forward road early in the trail it really needs to go into the zoning ordinance and it's really the purview of the thing and I think the tension in you know the town plan and the existing ordinances is historically the town plan has said basically development is discouraged on these locations because they have poor access typically the reason you know people are not living there today that they're 100 years ago is um you know because it's steeper and um more remote and it's what you know allows you know wildlife habitat to enforce free habitat so you know I mean there's certainly been proposed changes to act 250 uh I don't think they've worked through the legislature to try to discourage building of new roads or improvement of new roads so that people are living in these you know more remote areas and um you know so that's the you know tension there um there is a need for housing there is a need for people with lesser means to be able to afford by land and build their house so um and that's really the planning commission I think that can sort through those policy questions yeah that's what I'm thinking too John I uh I think I mean I do think there needs to be a clear policy about from the perspective of homeowners and potential buyers of you know what can be done with the class four road in terms of developing a driveway and who's responsible for what and that needs to be clear because it has a huge implication for the the value of the property and um but on top of that I think there's I think we need to do some consideration on a road by road basis of whether the town really wants to discourage development on a specific class four road or maybe the opposite maybe encourage development and I'll give you and because I know most about conville road because I happen to live at the corner of it of the class four part uh as an example uh you know I think there are a lot of residents up here who were not happy that that the roads becoming more developed because they were using it for recreational activities but but at the same time I think there's a case for making it passable to at least a pickup truck uh which it's not really now I mean it could be but it's very hazardous I would say um because it really separates us from the rest of more town right you know I have to drive the reason I'm not at the meeting tonight is because it takes me at least 20 minutes to get there and I didn't have that amount of time to come down so um so so you know I think uh there is interest in the class four roads for various purposes I think some owners along some of the class four roads might be happy to have them closed off just uh you know no longer be roads at all be just considered trails and not be developed in the future but I don't know that um and it seems like we ought to be reviewing them road by road and asking ourselves do we really want to discourage developments on this road or maybe the opposite in some cases I think that's that's certainly a good idea it sure in your name again my name is Collin and I also live on a class four road and having to make it you know down to be at the meeting tonight because I think this is very important to discuss about the development of our town and how opening up the class four roads to better development can lead to tax generation now that can really improve our town offer more services and you know bring more people to our community to provide more tax revenue so you can have improved schools, improved roads, and better sense of community. So uh Deb you think it's something that you guys could take on then or take a look at well let's talk about it in our next meeting David I think that's safe to say yeah I think we can certainly discuss it I think uh as you know with the wastewater situation we've oh and I guess with ARPA we established a committee to to cover something that's not just people on the planning commission I think we need other people involved but if you want to follow that model I think we could potentially do it uh I can take it up at our next meeting which is two days away. No I think that would be good I know it's it's going to be something that's going to take take some time but we've been wrestling with this for you know a few years through what to do and I think we need to rather than continue to kick it down the road we'll um get some policy in place uh so that it's clear and I think that's what people are looking for uh as well you know what they can do and have to do it how to do it isn't it also relevant into this um as to this gentleman just seeing that a lot of the trails we don't know where they have to be we have to figure out where they are I don't know what whoever is looking into that property has to figure out where the trails are I mean most of them we don't really even know they're not in right and I think that's important to have in our policy as well is distinguish that and and how that's I know we have we've uh last year put money in the budget to start to identify trails um we're trying to do although we haven't this year we've had more of a time trying to get surveyors but you know they just plug everything else um but we have money we know we're going to need to spend some to look because depth of your question earlier I mean I would say probably more than half of the trails are leaving some of the class war you know yeah we're pretty sure it's there you know we had over the mountain last year where we we did a survey and you know it was 150 feet different where it had been so it's you know something that needs to be looked at but I think we got a plan in place um and John I know you're you know um on the other end of it but we can certainly maybe on the the committee I saw David was leading towards some kind of a committee towards it if you guys had someone that you wanted to put on that even um just because again it really helps I mean you've seen that you have a lot of experience with it as well and so that we can get it right sure yeah no I think it's um it would be foolish to probably discourage you know the development um what I think is probably going to happen is you'll have an upgraded section of legal trail in a class four and then there'll be another trunk land for sale slightly beyond it and then there'll be some more development and I agree with a I think most of the feedback that you're going to get back negative is going to be people that have been enjoying these trails themselves to themselves basically for years and now they're having to share them but the land was for sale so everybody had the same opportunity to purchase it so we want to discourage it but it just needs to be a fairly common sense approach to yeah no I think in the you know if there's taken any direction from this select board on this it's that's what we're we're not trying to make people jump through hoops we just want to take a look at it and I think Dave's approach to you know even certain trails do we want to encourage you or discourage I you know I would have to look at that because then you start getting into a lot of maybe legal issues that way but uh you know something that's you know environmentally uh responsible as well we you know we need to look at that um as well it works in our community all right so Dave we appreciate you bring that up um and Deb thank you for coming as well we appreciate it um John you're always welcome thank you appreciate your expertise Dave actually you and Deb before you leave um there's a couple things I know in new business I'm sorry I didn't get back to your email but I will bring up um what you've asked and we'll go ahead and look at that and try to get that stuff taken care of so it can go on the ballot in March um and the other thing I'd like to do is is I know you guys have an ARPA meeting on Wednesday or the 12th at some time in November get you guys here just kind of discuss what you guys have come up with that um and any recommendations or see where we might be going one way or another because we've had well you were here tonight we had a few other requests that are you know coming in so you guys should take a look at those uh as well I think we had um there was one that where was it from uh nothing there but uh Mad River TV I think had a small one um it wasn't a lot of money but I think we should you know take a look at it regardless um and I think that's yeah and then uh the neck of the woods yeah yeah neck of the woods that's what I think neck of the woods we already said right but they should have a look at that and see what we're thinking on that all right thank you John do you have anything else for us no you guys are seeing as obstacles or things that you'd like us to look at or work on I wonder is it clear that I mean if somebody has a legal trail and they're going to upgrade it and they're going to do survey work so you know where it is can you you can reclassify a class three as a four or four as a three once something's a legal trail can you classify it as a a town class four I would think so I know yeah I'm just curious that I'm going to answer that yeah um but I don't think that we're looking to do that anywhere um but people I mean if they wanted to bring it up to class four standards and then us take over the road that's a cold okay that's that's I didn't know whether that's where you were going with that so I would be a transformative change but you know I just something we take a look at or we'll ask our attorney John well it's an interesting question I think because when you looked at the class four roads and legal trails and where they are what would happen um you know I think of Jones Brook and Aaron Brook Road and is it Kelly Brook or Mort Brook yeah it's all Kelly Brook you know there's a connector up high and and there's a connector up high that goes over a ridge hill which is class four and uh there's a lot of land there and uh you know obviously 150 years ago people lived up it's close to month earlier obviously part of the median but driving this is um yeah I think you're gonna continue to see that so um if the town wants growth yeah but I think you need to go at it you know right now it's that hot and right um really the planning commission is supposed to plan and think about these things there's wetlands and there's oh no there's a lot too yeah it's not as easy as just saying this is the policy you know you know what we want to hear you know there's a lot uh a lot involved but we need to again like you said it's at a hot now uh you know other children uh this gentleman here you know you know we're gonna work with the best of ten but that's that's all we have right now you know we don't want to again put in three people through keep saying it through hoops but we need to probably have a better policy than what we have you know which is not great all right nice to see you job thank you day for uh zooming in hi thank you well yeah thank you for coming down as well you're welcome and will thank you you're you're still welcome to stay so don't have to go yeah you're not taking these with you oh you are all right thank you all yeah yeah thank you very much all right so we'll um yeah sharon's gonna do a couple things but then we're gonna go ahead into the executive session here we're kind of select for it here on um October 3rd just came out of executive session and I would make a motion to authorize um our attorney to file suit to enforce the health order issued on September 19th second john seconds any further discussion see none uh all in favor vote aye thank you everyone so let's go to reports communications in session we'll start with you young lady a motion for just the technicality of the plate contract need a motion on a technicality of the plate contract what's the technicality the just to have a motion on it so that we can it wasn't ever a motion was done on that contract oh we signed it okay okay i'll make a motion if we want those contracts signed so okay okay we'll discuss that so all right um i mailed out letters to everybody on the front your road um certified that way they we know that we contacted everyone um and when does that start october 17th yeah all right so my name is 17th that will be closed for during the day um up to two weeks okay thank you yep um the pony farm road has been the parking situation has been resolved with the sheriff's office there is a road maintenance permit there for cogden road hunger valley construction invoice that needs to be approved so that we could pay it and the mr gt just to keep compliant for the watershed program oh and also um the amending of the minutes second the amending of the minute oh i know it's got uh right to go but i was just going to say asha what where do we stand on the uh the junk car on the chill sheriff's permit so that they have one of their deputy's working line it's still there it's still there well tow truck can't get up there and the town can't move it until it's released by the sheriff's department there's a sheriff for the state that uh didn't see there a trooper or admirers is the one who's talking to me guess definitely given the lady in there yeah but they you said something about another trooper and there's trooper still yeah all right the trooper and that's again reminding what our contract with the sheriff's stuff more or less for enforcement those type of things something like that more in the state that's going to be there too i have no better no other complaints tonight right chaline uh shon and i talked with dara at more best well more so shon than me but about bringing back some of the local road roundtables that they were doing going to different offices because i guess in her running for office she's found out a lot of people want to do more work on roads and that was something that used to happen so what's the suggestion to bring it back yeah what is it through the roundtables that was through uh ridge to river through sponsored roads and you hadn't had one in a while and actually we just discussed at the last rich river meeting uh having one and more town hosting but that's what there was talking about but cori miller is left uh friends of mad river so i don't know but it doesn't mean we can't still do them yeah because i think it was more like what local people wanted for the roads what different towns were doing you know what people wanted to see for that was i guess a big thing where people wanted funding to go or more work to be done okay because the roundtables we had was just both gray and myself and then uh different the road the road crew from valley towns for the purpose of like making more user friendly or less car less vehicle thing for people to go on just maintenance just find out what everybody else is doing and yeah yeah so may i may have a better idea to do something oh and then share an idea you know urban equipment that they use where specific means are like guts very built their own roller for the greater maybe we could get an idea from them all right how much did that cost you to do yeah doesn't work yeah good and also um because you were part of it over there the fire department had a successful um uh more fest yeah i think well they made taking out overhead with what five hundred dollars i think somewhere yeah it was it was it was right around five hundred dollars give or take a few cents here or there yeah good so step on and um we had a little bit but thank you very much for all your work that you did on that i know you you know you're involved with the committee and then just doing all the fire stuff um great stuff i mean obviously was there to make you know a little bit of change but i think just seeing all the people and all the people um was a good thing yeah absolutely it's uh it's a great event and it's definitely a good opportunity to uh get to know new people in town i met i met a few different new families that i hadn't met before and was able to introduce myself and they're like oh we've called you for a fire permit and things like that and finally put a face to the name and it was a great event yeah so anything else going on uh what you got well i always am confused whether i do communications or wait till old business well i know you've had something old business as far as the um down the hall down the hall so that would be old business um i mean ray and i talked to chris hunt to go for the after ready we're trying to you know just we're working on that and from john and i met with the same gentleman from v chance chris hunt to review the crosswalk you know um so we're got some steps to take from going forward with that for the permit he's looking into the where the location is i mean they've actually redrawn it from the first meeting that we had with uh john chaplain from v trans as well so that's a work in progress and then also i walked over that with chris hunt to the radar sign that we're trying to relocate and um i actually just sent him an email today because to have him give us some suggestions and it's a little bit more than than just picking up and moving you know just because the equipment that's on the pope so i asked chris like are there the statements have people they use to to move these you know rather than us great you know so as they say nothing comes easy you know i hope we can still move it before the snow flies but we'll just keep picking away at it so to speak now most of us what you gotta grind so i call it yeah i mean but there's so much equipment on the pole it's it's you know there's a little bit more to odd than just i'm bolting it and moving it down the street the new foundation we're pulling that one out anyways i'm learning all about though so maybe i'll be in the next step yeah so those are john good stuff i got a call from travis blodgett and uh i believe we have the permit to work in the town right away on um legal trail 21 is that right sasha martin hit i guess martin did signed off on it but i don't know that we have very it was um he was concerned because he saw a lot of trucks going up there and as far as he knew there was no um no permit issue um and i believe gillespie is doing the work yeah this is it right here okay so that's there's only concern was the permit yeah right because there was no yeah okay so we went up this morning and uh looked at the work they did and they did a phenomenal job it looks like they did everything to to standards and they seated it down and everything so it looks like a very well done job that's tremendous good okay thank you so and then also um don and i took a walk on the town forest trail and with the with uh michael brown in terms of seeing what would you know whether we could in fact do some um logging there and it seems like there are there are three three different tracks that um that might be feasible for that not really to make the town any money but really for wildlife management purposes and uh i probably said we probably end up breaking even but uh so we're just moving slowly on that the forestry management plan I think is this the part of you know in two weeks we're going to go with uh another walk about to look at the echo class sites and all those ties into the trails and the whole land use policy where they are in safety and access to can I uh can I ask a question on that subject so uh mandy has been persistent from the school about trees in the classrooms that are dangerous or have fallen down already and she's been reaching out to me as well as martin constantly trying to get us to to do more with the trees not that we're against doing some you know some tree work but it doesn't really some of those trees are dangerous and also it seems a little bit out of the scope and we're certainly happy to do them you know if they need to be done but it should definitely be something that is run by you folks I would believe that is was this just recently that she's done this uh within the last week she sent me another one she'd like some trees removed in the echo classes and then just before school was starting a large tree had fallen onto one of the echo classes and and left some carnage okay because um we definitely discussed this yeah because yeah and I had um the the initial tree that you guys took down right no the the one that was like falling on the classroom there yeah was it fell on its own no I know but I'm talking a couple of months ago uh I think the last one boy the last one I remember was just before school was starting what's that the last one I remember was just before school was starting and it and it had fallen already on the classroom we just tried to clean it up to make as much room as we could but it was a good solid two foot around or bigger okay but she she has reached out since then to ask for more and I think I'm fairly certain it was last week I'm kind of looking through my my email yes uh it was on the 29th so Thursday of last week okay uh she said any chance you have time to meet there's a couple of my teachers that want to meet about a couple trees up in the outdoor classroom so I I just like I said I'm not against it you know I I try to do my part because you know the safety of the kids is important but I don't know where that all falls on you know as far as is it something that you guys want us to continue doing or maybe they just move their classroom or or figure out from from that what we can do to make it work well we are walking the man knee and some other teachers uh and on the 12th yeah and so we'll definitely make sure we bring it up and please feel free to join us if you want to take the walk because one of the other items we're going to approach you with is also what kind of access there is to the to a echo class as far as with an ATV or something if you know you had to get out there you know so yeah is that work considered part of our part of our understanding with the town the MOU probably is not in there but that's something that we can put in there yeah so step on I think that's a good idea uh think about you know how much time you're putting into this so that we can kind of put a number on that and put it in our MOU yep uh when I've done it in the past I do put the the code down for first at the school which leads Sasha to to put it in for for the MOU stuff if I'm correct all right good and then but in the meantime work with John because he's our fourth tree warden um on any tree stuff but just keep track of it and you make it equitable um you know agreement with them so it's safe um and you know it's not costing us time to do it yeah I mean I think if there is if there in a situation where you don't feel it's safe to cut the tree then we shouldn't do it and they should hire somebody to do it right we shouldn't be asking that local shouldn't be expected to take that risk right right yeah right you know if it's just trees yeah please you can handle and do otherwise um just go out to a tree person and yeah I'll stay in touch with uh with John moving forward and I think on the 12th we should hopefully be able to get some some clarity on what what they have going on as well good all right uh anything else John uh no unfortunately Stephen I can't be there on the 12th but it'll be helpful if you're there that'll be good I'll be there John'll be there turn around for the walk big deal be there all right John got the awesome job I just had some uh questions on from for Sasha on some other items that were reports of communication um whatever what happened then with that uh depth of the sheriff with plenty farm road yeah um he stopped here and he stopped he left here went right there and talked to them about where they're parking okay he told him or asked him to park on the driveway side of their mailbox and stay out of plenty farm road okay all right so we don't need a letter for that I guess okay and what I agree mountain power I got a hold of them through the green mountain power portal and somebody called me yeah he was going to follow up on what was going on and somebody above Jared okay good that's that's what I thought and yeah okay thank you yes um yes first again communications or not again a great more fest the whole committee everyone I think it really went off well thank you for everyone's participation um the cake contest was was great I think most of the slack board members that have decided to take that duty off our left pass it on to the road girl rock all john says now he definitely is going to demand that forever oh the only problem is I ended up holding everybody up I thought you had to eat the whole piece of cake it's actually 15 pieces of cake oh god those kids see your grandson that too what's that your grandson oh yeah yeah yeah but so it was nice to see all the families all the things so um again the fire department it's a great job harrick the pigs were good um I was able to buy some jams and jellies from uh this is reagan maybe good to space it out a little bit more I always remember being a little longer oh yeah yeah and it may be good just because I know like it was really hard to keep up with french fries yeah I mean it was it was it had been too long in the past I think it's too short this year yeah probably could have been another hour or something yeah at least another yeah that's what I was thinking especially we got a nice gap like big blue there to the truck oh yeah people touch the truck take thing yeah well I think um certainly you know all suggestions that all the group will take and I was trying to figure out how to how to do it better and more so and it all depends because you know you could extend it next year and the weather's going to be crappy and no one's going to be there all right yeah yeah you're always but I think there's always a few things that could work on um but they'll keep it fresh and going um I think that's the kind of thing now I guess not um I do have as far as our meeting minutes I'd like to approve the minutes of uh 9 19 second that is there any further discussion on those all available right all right and I do want to amend sort of meeting minutes for June like probably July 25th and when we were setting the tax rate um I made a motion and I did not use the word ARPA funds and I need to put that in so I'm going to accept the calculations as uh presented using $35,415.16 of ARPA funds due to lost revenue in 2021 thank you all in favor all right all right so that's done so that we can use those ARPA funds for that um so let's go ahead with old business Don why don't you go ahead start you have a few things that you want to check so well um just quickly on the town garage so hunger valley construction there's gentleman Alex uh told told Steve I'm not doing a very good job but he's not doing great he's done some work at the uh town hall which is what Sasha would have prepped us and we need to approve some of the Sherwin has covered in the grant um but he's also taken on um looking into solving the condensation problem at the town garage and so like he called me the other day um he's found a contractor you know an HVAC contractor who actually uh has suggested what apparently was in um from talking to Martin was in the original design which is to have two fans you know fairly large fans up in the ceiling that would keep the you know the air you know because it's a radiant slatter that goes up and um you know to to do that install so it requires some electric going and then this these fans installed and it's somewhere in the 40 000 range to do on these you know he'll get a written quote the whole thing all the detail but I just wanted to bring it to the board's attention for us to think about and as we get into budget time thinking about how how we might fund something like that because it's certainly something that needs to get taken care of or we research if that's you know maybe this we can check with someone else if that's a solution but anyways at least it's it's a surprise you know because we haven't really seen this has been now kind of two years that we've been trying to get this thing rolling so let's see I'll tell you man I don't know what folks think of that I'll ask them to do a no I have to see what he has but he has to remember with their fans it wasn't talked about it again you know it's been so long but I don't know why they were eliminated because I remember that coming up one time another man I don't know why it seems like that could be you so would efficiency Vermont be able to tell us would efficiency Vermont be able to always remain a double back with those guys yeah that's a good idea yeah it'll be a viable solution that sounds yeah so maybe I'll get to the quote you know the proposal from them and then something then I can run it by pretty much efficiency Vermont by saying it's two fans that are 25 port whatever the size is the same way have some feedback not good could just get some progress there no yeah okay so we haven't gotten anywhere with the tree in the back yet but we're working on it anybody here be able to plant the tree to take some branches off so town hall the town hall just a update is that Cory and I met with Cheryl Lynn and you know went over the transition to the management of the town hall so we're pretty well set with that and talked about the management plan which is the only thing really that's could be open for discussion as we go along is the cleaning you know I think in the current plan we're saying one day and then there was some discussion should we give it three days and should we be charging the rental person the cleaning fee kind of thing cleaning before cleaning after so that seemed to be the only thing that we're really trying to figure out how to figure out as it stands now I believe Megan comes in after an event and cleans and you know reports if anything's been damaged or right or anything like that I mean in the plan I think it's listed as 70 75 off clean charge yeah so I didn't have a chance to read that yeah email these things today so anyways you know other than that it's we're ready to roll you know with our six-month management of the town hall that was an update there and in terms of we're still in the weeds so to speak you know working on with the architect and design stuff and coming up with a you know I mentioned you that I thought would be able to do it at the 10-17 meaning of a presentation but I don't think we're quite ready so maybe November 1st yeah either rest this month that hammer out some more details so that's that's the update on that that's all I got so that's um if anyone else have anything for uh old business we have we're gonna hear from the Erica funds so Sasha maybe the yeah probably no November of course maybe November yeah it'd be good to hear from them on that um legal trails I was wondering on that the legal trails um Sasha if you followed up on anything on the on legal trails 17 yes um all right and Ray and I had talked last meeting were we gonna cut trees or was blodgett I think he had a we can check with him there was a an agreement that we had it had to be done within a certain amount of time or else we do and I don't know if the lipsy good over there or whether they must affect some trees right if they fix the road or you know what they did or it was 21 that was 21 oh okay right so 17 is the one that we moved okay because I and I mean I I certainly don't remember saying that Guy Martin could bring material in that's what he was claiming the guy Martin said he could bring no we know we're some guy Martin drinking it's really yeah that's this we uh if someone wants to come to the board just like any of the legal trails or whatever and they want a road permit to upgrade something we didn't look at anything but um you know we very you know I think and I remember it played his day um Ray saying you know what we need to cut that thing from whatever was it hold right away all right it's all walking up there there's really is actually not a ton of wood that was on there no it was all junk but it had to be identified right it should be identified well it's all fresh yeah right and it was when we have a couple of widows or do you remember how many we go back and look or is it just one rod I don't think it was even that I want to look back and agree but it's there and I think it's standard why didn't it want to be 30 feet right yeah yeah I think it was almost it might have been because it wasn't anything less because I remember we didn't want to have an issue where it was one rod so it's about 15 and a half feet or what happened to me yeah you know what I probably got myself actually probably just never know yeah if you could for this thing I can't thank you on this particular it says it would take me a minute to find it but we have what it is but we will have to make sure that it's done well we do have the road to do that or how that's a way you're thinking you know if they can go with that be obviously the chief is going to do it yeah because again I have something to do in the winter here after it's frozen sure you know it's the best time to do that yeah and just go pile it up or burn it or whatever yeah check it out or whatever but I think that's a good idea um also with legal trails Sasha to have you I know we were having an issue with uh surveying is there any we don't have enough money how much you said it could be upwards of 30 grand for one trail yes yeah so I learned something's really pushing it I don't know yeah I don't know if we really need how much to really I want to pursue this you know yeah I think actually it's one of those things where we may want to start a fund like the bridge of color yeah I think that's a great idea and half take this we'll start it before the end of this year so we take the money that we put in for this budget feed it with that and then ask the town on an article each year to fund whether we five or six seven whatever thousand dollars yeah um so we have that money there uh so when we get pushed when we need to do a survey or once we get substantial money where we can start doing the surveys yes um but it's going to take a little time yeah wouldn't this also be something that um I get looked at with the planning board and this multi I think it would suggest that the day that maybe there's a couple other people just the planning board yeah maybe in that process also addressing the whole thing about surveying of the trails and stuff no I think that will have to be in especially if people are you know and who's gonna who's in the responsibility yeah um because I think that that's gonna have to follow yeah yeah I mean it seems like that's the group we're going yeah which was good and I'm glad and there was no pushback on it well so they don't know how much it costs they don't know how much it costs but no I think that's the way to go because we can't afford you know one person much less three or four people say I want to build out here yeah um you know we got a lot of trails right we've got a lot of trails and then we start saying well go ahead and and then the other landowners Susan were just waiting in the weeds unfortunately it's a cost that someone's got to bear and it can't be us I just I think and I've passed me into I hear one someone on the board say like some of the other times they like Watesfield and more they don't do anything with their trails right I mean some very possible that's what they say I don't know I was just wondering if they you know they have that's it that's the trail or whatever we have nothing to do with it I don't know if that's what you want well it was good sometimes they throw it cross forwards too yeah which I I think we want to keep all the real estate we can oh no I get it I don't even know I'm suggesting that but um yeah they may not but again into here I think again in more time we have all this lake and I mean we're that's where we're more down um and there needs to be some middle ground where it can be developed and yeah where it's preserved as well so hopefully this group that we put that task to can do that um will also keep the town off the hook for paying everyone's everyone's feet I know it's gonna be expensive but you know it's gonna be pro-rated when someone else moves in down the road you know you charge you know they have to fuck up for what was done before them or something I don't know it's too much for us to do but um so we got the compensation we got the stormwater project that Clark spoke with us tonight nothing on the gravel pit funds for river road paving project so you're uh you know you took a hell of a cake the other day Sasha you should have a big sale a weekly to buy some funds um tanker truck fire department I did run by Stefan to see if they had any alternative fuel vehicles there was some I don't know if you guys saw last week or a couple weeks ago there was some funding went through um and so he was going to look into that it's it's uh electric ones would be I think you know it was a million dollar trucks but he said there were some options where we thought that the truck would shut down different things so he's gonna look into that so there may be some some funds there and is that did everyone get their ballots in the mail yes yeah so what did I have an open mind now is is that on that it's only about come on we just got it was saturday or sunday my king sunday we say I can't get mail like during the regular week can you get it on sunday no we don't we sometimes we don't get it during the week and then the king on sunday we didn't get it any friday saturday the postmaster if he doesn't get it during the week i mean he he can't sometimes he can't complain i'm just saying i know i know i know the last one that happened to come is we got mail on sunday yeah well you know oftentimes this shows up at seven o'clock in night we're awesome we have zina zina's great zina well yeah we don't have zina i think he didn't hear a drama though unfortunately all right so we have that coming up budget stuff we gotta get working on i know you've sent some mornings out to people or letting people know what we're looking for all right so we can do that so each meeting going forward you can put some time aside to do the budget stuff to take a look at that um that would be good that's it um aside for new business stuff anyone else have anything new exciting you want to share with us all right let me put this on mute i thought you were gonna say you wanted one of these uh pastries one of these pastries we leave you want to hear and you come get in the morning step on if you want oh my god yeah no that you should yeah all right well if there's nothing else thank you orca for coming tonight um everyone thank you for your time thank you um and we will see each other in uh few weeks two weeks so uh we have a few things to sign and reary sunbees signatures getting better isn't it it looks less like toms wow yeah i think that was a big shot right across the bow i put my first middle and last name on my notary stamp which means now when i notarize everything i have to sign my whole name yeah a lot of fun so how was your uh you going over there in berlin i love it no terrific nice it's it's great we finally all got moved around we're all in our own offices so what do you love about it i mean this all having your own office well i had my own office before too all right but um i know it's just different guys work very hard i'm busy from when i walk in the door at 7 30 until i walk out the door before well maybe that's it you're nice and busy you can yeah if it's not utilities taxes doing research hosting invoices scanning stuff in the ball do you think um kind of what is your biggest right now it's going to be sewer and water yeah because our work trust came back so we have to do all our sewer and water bills sewer and water bills have to go out Olympic tax bills have to go out another 15 days so maybe get over here some day and get sasha a few tips on you know how to do some stuff i still walk down the hall and i'm like to your assistant pressure or assistant for assistant charger very good anything else folks all right so i move to adjourn second oh there we are all right all right well thank you everyone


This is Orson Welles, speaking from London. There is a warehouse of souvenirs, where ordinary objects, a briar-root pipe, a dingy white glove, a lump of twisted ceiling wax, all have a history of murder. This length of sash cord is quite commonplace. You might see something like this in any window frame. Harmless-looking bit of rope, it seems so. Frayed at one end, cut all cleanly at the other. Just the right length to hook around a man's neck and twist. The sash cord can be seen in the black museum. The station department of the London police. We bring you the dramatic stories of the crimes recorded by the objects in Scotland Yards. Octavia Kenmore, actress-manager, was concluding her acting. The alley of that theatre was like any other, a corridor of darkness between the street and the stage door. One September evening, a man came running out of the shadows, startling the doorkeeper who sat dosing in his chair. Mr Carter, what's the trouble, sir? You'll find out soon enough. St. John Carter here, Mercury Theatre. Send an ambulance quickly. There's been an accident. One of our stagehands, he's lying unconscious in the alley. Hurry, please. Yes. One of the cast, Mr Carter. Who is he? Tell me. It's Buckland. I can't bring him round. I try. If Buckland, oh, Miss Kenmore, will be terribly distressed, stage carpenter with her for 20 years. I dare say she will. Hadn't we better go and lift him in, sir? Perhaps something could be done. No, no. It's better not to move him till the doctor comes. It may be serious. We wouldn't want to injure him, you know. A man found dead or dying. A phone call. Then the waiting. Over the crumpled figures stood old Tom Snellon, doorkeeper, and St. John Carter. Leading man. Waiting. Waiting until an ambulance drew up at an intern came to the other side, Jeff Buckland. Which one of you called us? I did. You said the man was unconscious. I looked to be. I'm no physician. This man's dead. Shot through the heart. You'd have done much better to have called the police. Police arrived and actors coming into the evening performance were questioned. The star of the play in the theatre earliest was her customers left undisturbed. The constable at the door admitted a young plain clothesman. Inspector Mitchell. Yes, Jordan? One of the men found this, sir. Hidden under some rubbish in the alley. 32 caliber. Thank you. Oh, Mr. Ellis. Attention now focused on David Ellis, stage manager in Miss Kenmore's troupe. Ever seen this pistol, Mr. Ellis? Well, yes. It's the one we use in the play. I keep it in my desk. Oh, the usual license for it. What sort of ammunition do you have? For blank cartridges, of course. 32 blanks. It's not loaded with blanks now. Bullets. And one chamber has been fired. I must warn you, Ellis. Anything you say, henceforth, will be written down and may be used as evidence. What? You mean you're arresting Dave? But you can't. He never hurt anyone. Who are you, young lady? Miss Kenmore's secretary. My wife, Inspector. Please, Lucy. But this is... when, Inspector, you don't understand. Jeff was our friend. He's been... well, like a father to both of us. And while you stand here wasting time, the real murder is getting farther away. That won't do, Lucy. I take it there's been some trouble. Please, sir, state your business and then leave. I can't have my theatre disrupted 15 minutes before curtain time. Oh, Miss Kenmore! Now, Lucy, control yourself. Will someone be good enough to tell me what has happened? Certainly, Miss Kenmore. I had hoped it wouldn't be necessary to disturb you just at present. But one of your stage hands, Mr. Buckland, was found this evening outside... Octavia Kenmore. Distinguished actress manager. Darling of the provinces. Equally adept at comedy or tragedy. Of course, I'm gravely shocked. Poor Mr. Buckland. A good and faithful servant, Inspector. But it is preposterous of you to suspect, Mr. Ellis. My stage manager's never killed people. In any case, I can't spare him. We ring up in 10 minutes exactly. I'm extremely sorry, Miss Kenmore, but Ellis is a material witness. He must come to the station house for further questioning. It was his pistol that... It was my pistol. I own all the props used in my play. The license is in his name. Legally, he is the owner.  I'd like to do that, ma'am, but unfortunately your entire company is under surveillance. And is only permitted to perform tonight. Ellis, you must come with me. Very well. Go with them, David. Lucy and I will be down to see you. And the Inspector, as soon as we possibly can. Thank you, Miss Kenmore. The police left the theatre, except for certain constables on duty at the door. And in her dressing room, Octavia Kenmore made ready. Lucy, my child. Ah, me. How weak a thing the heart of a woman is. Don't be downcast. How can I help it, Miss Kenmore? With David in prison. Nonsense. He's only detained for questioning. He isn't charged with any crime. I'm thinking of Geoffrey Buckland, an excellent good man. And the best stage carpenter there was in England. Was he married? His family's in Manchester. I'll have to telephone them immediately after the performance. What? You really mean you're going on? Certainly I am. And you will do David's job tonight. Me? Run the show? Why not? You've seen David do it often enough. And work is what you need. There's no time to think. Now quickly now. Check the stage for the first scene while I repair my make-up. Go, my child. Farm and self-possessed. But her composure was nothing to that of Octavia Kenmore. She descended on the police station not many minutes later. Ah, Miss Kenmore and Mrs. Ellis. Come in, won't you? I am an inspector. Now. I expect a full explanation of what you have accomplished by imprisoning my employee these past two hours. Please sit down, ladies. There's plenty of time. Is there? I expect to leave Brighton tomorrow night, taking my stage manager with me. Is he all right, Inspector? He's not in chains or even in a dungeon, Mrs. Ellis. In fact, he's quite comfortable. Oh, thank heavens for that. If you will, both be seated. Madam. Since you insist. Thank you, Inspector. Well, have you nothing to tell us about this case? I'm waiting at the moment for our pathologist report. Court. Yes, routine police procedure. Well, the man's been shot. That was quite obvious. The bullet is important, particularly in court, to establish the actual weapon. It seemed to me the hand that fired the weapon is a more important consideration. Eventually, Miss Kenmore, and inevitably, I trust, we'd like to know more about Buckland's background, his habits. Did he drink, for example? Despite the general opinion, there are many in the theatrical profession who are not addicted to alcohol, Inspector. Mr. Buckland was a decent man. Octavia Kenmore told the truth about the murdered man, a non-drinker, except for an occasional point of bitter after the show. A devoted family man in an occupation where family relationships are often difficult to maintain. There was nothing to indicate a motive for murder. In all the years of me, I have never known him to miss a single performance. He was a crossman who could rig and handle any production, heavy or light. With him on the job, my stage managers had an easy time with it. Everyone liked him. My only fault, perhaps, was that he was too loyal to me. We're not being much help to you, are we, Inspector? Oh, yes. You've helped to fill in the picture. I've learned a lot. What have you learned? Two important things, Miss Kenmore. First, that Buckland was not a man who made enemies, all my reports bear this out, and also that he was extremely devoted to you. You think that's significant? Extremely. You keep a close reign in your company. Do you have any jealousies or quarrels that occurred? I'd know about them, yes. I'm sure of that. You're not the person to tolerate friction or even bad habits in members of your troop. Come in. Pathology report, Inspector. I knew you wanted right away. Thank you. Yes. Well, this is interesting. Why wasn't I told of this before? You know what they like in the lab, Inspector? They wanted to be sure. Absolutely sure. I see. Miss Kenmore, can you think of a reason why anyone should want to shoot a dead man? Hardly. A useless procedure. You seem so. Apparently, Buckland was dead of strangulation before he was shot.  Dr. Mitchell repeated it. Can you think of a reason why anyone should want to shoot a dead man? An interesting problem, is it not? The medical report is very definite. Buckland was strangled with a thin piece of rope. Because he wore a scarf about his neck, the marks weren't noticed till they brought him to the lab. He was dead before the bullet ever was fired. Inspector Mitchell then went back to the scene of the crime, the alley beside the theater, where the body of Jeffrey Buckland had been found. And with him at her own insistence went Octavia Kenmore. What are they looking for, Miss Kenmore? The thin piece of rope, of course, but they'll never find it. If the murderer had an ounce of rain, he'd have taken it with him. I don't suppose this alley ever had so much light turned onto it before. It was strange, men searching every cranny, their flashlights pointing and probing, picking up grill work balconies, iron ladders and fire escapes thick with rust. The men themselves still are wetted against the light. Oh, Miss Kenmore. Yes? You brought up in that various trade. I think it's the weapon. Our lab can tell us definitely, of course. I see. The piece of lash line. What's that? Lash line, did you say? Yes, it's the sort of rope we use backstage to lash the scenery together. Must the same as ordinary clothes line? Or sash cords, yes. Would you be able to identify it as belonging to your stage equipment? Oh, that's hard to say. Miss Kenmore, Inspector. Yes, Lucy? One of the stagehands reported to me tonight. They'd had trouble with one of the sets. The line was too short to make it fast. Could you locate that piece of scenery, Mrs. Ellis? I think so. I told him to leave it on top of the stack so that we could replace it in the morning. Well, let's go on stage then, shall we? Do you know, Miss Kenmore, as a youth, I was strongly attracted to the theatre? Well, you indeed, Inspector Mitchell. Stage door onto the platform. This is the flat, the one with the short lash line. You see how it works, Inspector. The rope is flipped round the iron cleats and tied off at the bottom, so the audience sees only an unbroken wall. I understand perfectly. The core of this rope matches the piece found in the alley. Rust, stains and all. What does that suggest to you, Inspector? There's little doubt in my mind, Miss Kenmore, that the person we want is a member of your own company. Yes, I've decided that to myself some time ago. A member of your company, I think, cut off this cordage to strangled Buckland and someone else familiar with these premises took the pistol from Ellis' desk. Then you don't think my husband's guilty? I haven't said that, but I must check once more who actually was here backstage between the hours of six and seven. I was here myself in my dressing room and Sneller, the doorkeeper, was on duty. He surely had... We took his statement, of course. He seemed a bit evasive now that I think of it. I won't hear a word against him. Sneller's perfectly honest. I take an oath on it. Is he? A remarkable sound sleeper all the same? What do you mean? The extraordinary thing about his story, he used to have been dozing in his chair. He didn't wake even when a pistol was fired not 30 feet away. I think perhaps I'd better go and visit him. Then I'll come... No, Miss Kenmore, not this trip. Investigations of this kind are sometimes dangerous. The theater, four flights of well-worn steps led to an attic door. What do you want? What is it? You're Mr. Sneller? I am... We're the police. My name is Mitchell, CID. Should I show you my credentials? I recognize you, sir. Come inside. John Sneller had no need to be afraid. But it was his nature to be timid. Nearly an old man who wanted to avoid trouble. Sometimes when arguments occurred, it was his habit to pretend to be asleep in his cubby hole behind the stage door. You expect me to believe that when a pistol was fired close by you, you didn't even hear it? I can't rightly say this. There's heavy traffic in the street that time of night. You know, if I did hear a noise, I must have took it for a passing car. Yes, I'll admit that's a likely explanation. Perhaps I ought to... Yes, what is it? If there's something you haven't told us, I advise you to come out with it. What had he seen and heard? A trifle. But possibly a trifle of importance. Almost enough to send a man to the gallows. I know I should have spoke of it before, sir, but, well, it was a little before seven o'clock and Mr. Buckland was inside near his toolbox talking to this flashy dress-junk fella and Mr. Shingen Carter, he was there too. Just standing by, so to speak. Could you hear what they were saying? No bookmaking in this house. That was what Buckland said. Miss Kenmore won't stand for it. She's strict about such things. Yes, sir. Everyone knows that. Miss Kenmore won't have gambling in her company. An actor would get himself discharged if she caught him betting the horses or something. What else did Buckland say? Well, he warned the fellow he'd go straight to Miss Kenmore. He said, oh, this man had been following the company all along the tour and Carter and some of the others had been betting with him. But that was all. Three of them went out together, still talking. And that was the last you saw of him alive? Yes, sir, it was. And Mr. Carter, sir, it stuck me at the time. He came back a little later. Went up to his dressing room, I guess, and then went right out again. But he seemed so cheerful and high-spirited. I thought the gentleman must have settled their differences all right. Carter didn't come back again till he found Buckland's body and called the ambulance. That's right, sir. It begins to make sense, Inspector. Gins too? Yes. But why the stage manager's gun? And why shoot a dead man? Why? I steal a gun to shoot a dead man. Hoping to find the answer to this question, the Inspector went to Brighton Jail to call on David Ellis. Look here, Inspector, why are you holding me without a shred of evidence? Won't I be permitted to travel with the company when they leave tonight? It all depends. On what? Your replies to a few questions. Ask them by what means? How much gambling goes on in the company? Not a great deal. Some of the actors' bit of futilings now and then. Actually, their salaries are so small, they can't afford to be reckless. Does Miss Kenmore know about it? Not a chance. If she did, we'd have replacements in a matter of minutes. It would follow then that an actor who wanted to keep his job will be careful that such information never reached Miss Kenmore. Well, I'd certainly say so. Is there anyone in the company who needed that job badly?  Yes. I doubt it. Of course you never know. In troops like this one, most of the supporting cast are either on the way up or down. A dismissal might mean the end of a career. Ellis, has anyone a reason for wanting you out of the way? No. Why? Whatever for? That gun was stolen from your desk loaded with live ammunition and after the murder it was left where we'd be sure to find it and hold you responsible. I can't believe that anyone would do a thing like that. Unless... Unless? No, Inspector, there really isn't anyone. Indeed. Well, there is, though. No matter how clumsily he may have gone about it, I can't help feeling that our murderer has tried to pin his crime on you. For the moment, I'm going to let him think he's succeeded. How do you do that? By keeping you locked safely up here in jail. A short time later, Inspector Mitchell was admitted to Miss Kenmore's suite at the Shorefront Hotel. Any progress to report, Inspector? Not much, I'm afraid. Have you been to see David? I have. I left him in the best of health. Well, why are you holding him?  You know that as well as I do. I'm afraid I don't know it. I admit many murderers in my time, Mrs. Ellis. Most of them look quite as innocent as your husband. Besides, I have a hunch he could be somewhat more cooperative. In what way? Tell me, is there anything you know of that your husband might be concealing for some well-mistaken idea of gallantry? Something perhaps concerning you? I... no, I hardly think so. I seem to remember a melodramatic little scene I accidentally walked in on. I hope that was nothing. Just because Singe and Carter made some advances to him and David resented it... Oh. That may be more important than you think, Mrs. Ellis. In fact, it may be the piece of information I... Inspector Mitchell thought that he kneeled the killer at last. But it takes evidence to bring a man to court. Then Miss Kenmore made a helpful suggestion. You said you were a devotee of the theatre, Inspector Mitchell. I am indeed, ma'am. Did you, by any chance, see me as Lady Teasel? I did. A most marvellous performance. Then you'll recall, of course, the third act. I have something of that sort. A crucial moment at a famous play when standing behind a screen, the lady overheard a villain's treachery exposed. Such a dramatic device might be used effectively offstage, as well as on. At the theatre, before the matinee, the acting out began. May I see you a minute? Of course, Lucy, my dear. Not given up hope for Dave, I trust. No, not at all. That's the proper spirit. Still, I understand we're leaving Brighton without you. Please, I'd rather not discuss it.  Like the old days, eh? The engine Miss Kenmore is waiting. She wants to see you at once. Really? The great Miss Kenmore? That sounds ominous. It is. She's breathing fire and brimstone. Oh, gee. And it so happens I come from a long line of fire eaters. Lead the way, my girl. Octavia Kenmore was seated at her make-up table. Behind her, the tiny dressing room was crowded with trunks and props and costumes. In an alcove, hardly noticed, there stood a screen. Here he is, Miss Kenmore. So I can see, yes. Hello, what's the long face about? Nothing to do with me, I'm sure. You've been placing bets on the races, Mr. Carter. Therefore I'm compelled to dispense with your services. Here's your check and return fare to London. Your understudy will replace you with the matinee. See here, you can't do this. I have a contract. Just check covers the terms of your contract. Miss Kenmore, whoever told you this was lying.  If Ellis made this accusation... No, David. Your friend. Your fleshily dressed friend who admits to bookmaking. And may shortly admit to murder. Oh, so Morganous squealed, has he? If that's the word, yes. I gather he's ready to implicate you. He'll try, that kind always does. He did the killing, he can't drag me into it. I'm afraid you're already implicated quite seriously, Mr. Carter, and by your own words and actions. Oh, well, Inspector Mitchell, isn't it? What sort of game is this? A glorious game of play-acting. Congratulations, Miss Kenmore. A very successful little play-let. You haven't got anything you can prove. Hmm, no use bluffing. You took the pistol, didn't you? From Ellis' desk and shot Buckland with it. I didn't kill him. He was dead before. You are under arrest, Mr. Carter, and charged with willful murder. It wasn't me, I tell you. Morgan choked him with that bit of rope when Buckland threatened him with a police. Morgan had no license on a previous record, too. It would have been jailed for him. He did it, and after that... Yes, you thought quickly. You tried to take advantage of the situation to frame Ellis and kill his wife. No, Carter, you may not have killed anyone, but you are an accessory after the fact, and you did put a bullet through a man's heart. A delicate question for the jury to decide, but I predict you'll pay the penalty. Come along now, and come quietly. Un-ticketed. Lies in a glass case in the black museum. People of the theatre can be and most often are fiercely loyal to one another. Octavia Kenmore was such a person. An actress manager accepted responsibility not only for her company's professional welfare, but for their personal happiness, as well. St. John Carter was an exception to the rule. But then his career had an exceptional ending. Taking his final bow, as he did on a platform, 13 steps high at 8 o'clock one winter evening. Well, the murder weapon is on exhibit for Altworth Meyer in the famous room at Scotland Yard. And now, until we meet here again for another story from the black museum, I remain as always obediently yours.


Marines with 3rd reconnaissance battalion are attending the diving supervisors course in Okinawa. Once the course is complete, the Marines will be qualified to monitor and control safety procedures during diving operations. They get the opportunity then to take care of the Marines that are in charge of them, and so when they deploy on their MUSE or go out and do something real world potentially, they wouldn't require an AV diver to do anything for them any longer. In order to qualify, the Marines must complete a 3-week course including open and closed circuit diving drills, covering everything the candidates need to know about diving. They studied a lot initially. We had a couple of days of classroom work that they had to work through, and no kidding, they've been doing really well. Upon successful completion, the supervisors will be subject matter experts on all aspects of diving. The line scoping of the eastern end is in Kinslob, Okinawa.