good Thursday morning welcome to run it back we uh we have a show it's full of things I'm not one of those people says we have a great show in store for you because I don't know yet we don't know it's gonna be great but we're gonna do our best I'd like to introduce the crew stadium insider Shamsherania rock in the whole block on black I love this he showed up ladies and gentlemen the odds weren't good but Chandler Parsons made it post birthday celebration and pre birthday celebration Lou Williams on the end what a weird week for us here guys long night of basketball we watched every single second so we'd be prepared to talk about it yes we did including the big debut of the alien Victor Wimbanyama and man's first fans showed up early for this one hosting Dallas already a semi rivalry but they spoiled it Dallas winning this one 126 119 they scored the final eight points for the win bit of a dagger in that when we finished with 15 five five turnovers of one block Luca however well Luca and Kyrie but Luca 33 14 and 10 Kyrie had 22 points I know this is probably going to be considered a slow start for when be given all the hype but he did have nine in the fourth so let's just talk about what stood out first of all what's not to me is how much this dude cared and how tough he was getting the crowd involved everything he was doing like he was feeding off that energy and you could tell he was excited to be there and yeah he struggled a little bit early on and he's going to do that he's he had five turnovers he's gonna he's gonna make mistakes and as far as like the expectations they're not unfair because he does show flashes like that is something that he shouldn't be doing at that size facing you up bang bang between the legs and knock it down a three but he did show flashes in the fourth quarter and I thought it was a great debut I don't think we need to slow down any talk I think you need to be patient with this guy that you know I mean like just be patient but he's gonna have some huge games he's gonna have some bad games he's gonna have some bad turnovers there's gonna be a lot of different things going on in this kid's first year but I thought last night it was actually you know they were so much fun to watch between him and Sohan and Kelly Johnson and this is a fun team to watch and they're a lot better than I expected I love it man that was my first time I saw him with some emotion getting the crowd going being excited it was his debut a lot to a lot to build on a lot to work on but I thought the young guy played well I like that so none of us are lowering our expectations we're just chilling no if anything I they're like a top three team to watch I think going fun this kid's always going to get this guy he's exciting and he gave me he teased me a little bit last night with what's to come what I what I loved is like when you when you watched him walking off the floor how upset he looked about the loss and the fact that he he scores nine points in that fourth in that fourth quarter like the jumpers that he was making I mean it was face-ups from from mid-range in the corner threes his gate he's I mean he's got everything but just how frustrated he looked walking off the court there wasn't any post-game dapp up he looked like he was frustrated about the loss and it was just one game first one is settling it doesn't be plenty to see I think this is gonna be like you know said a fun team to watch but this is clearly still a rebuilding retooling team but I'm I'm curious like what was Victor women yama yama's first thought when he got a lot like you know I needed the ball right there like why didn't I get the ball he should have had more touches well yeah that's another thing I'd love to see him even more aggressive that he was very efficient but the as a young player you tend to force especially with him with all this pressure all this expectations people want to see him do more every single time he touches the ball and he didn't wish to me so it shows a huge sign of maturity that he's not gonna press he's not gonna force he's gonna take what the defense gives him and continue to do what he does on that end what do you tell a kid I mean he's he's obviously bigger than everybody else on the court and I one of the guys last night was talking about fouls are gonna be a lot easier on him as well they're gonna call him a lot more because just the size differential how do you just sort of temper expectations on that coming from overseas I think with the rule changes and how we allow to play in the NBA I think he'll settle in and it's always been a personal game to kind of get get rookies in foul trouble just to test their temperament to see what what's there and kind of play those mind games playing chess a little bit but I think he'll settle in he'd be fine and he'll learn he's not gonna get the same cause that a veteran guy is on the other team and it's gonna take him time just to understand angles more and his physicality people are gonna go right at his chest right so he did a great job first player second player the game he comes help side blocks Kyrie Irving's pull-up like you don't you don't see that I'll see that right for just comparison sake Tim Duncan's first game was 15 points 10 rebounds in his first David Robinson 23 and 17 do you guys remember your first games oh my first game actually was against the Spurs I didn't play well but I remember my first ever point I banked in a free throw I know I have it right here I just see if you remember you played 17 minutes here we go many points you think you had five whoa he's good I think I have four okay yeah let me see what yours you put you remember you play three minutes there it is definitely got a bug you made one shot one field goal in three minutes that's pretty good that's pretty good that's great efficient can't believe you got the five right who are you before the game I mentioned it the fans were there they were loud I think the the Jumbotron video they're bringing back y'all ready for this which is such flashbacks for me personally shams it's it's we knew it was gonna be big what's the last time or when's the last time you saw something kind of like this I mean I was at Koala Leonard's return game that was definitely very very energetic not in this way no not in this cheering way but I think I mean probably when they were getting to the finals I mean every single year I was I was at the 13 finals the 14 finals like those the crowds in San Antonio I mean you would you would you can attest more like they get lively when it's a team they root for when it's a team they feel like they can relate to they get really rowdy I can relate to an 8-foot dude a lot of people don't know that Antonio is a great basketball town so to see that again because it's been a while it's been a minute to see that again that was great guys has anyone ever gone nine years without a championship it's really hard but we're opening the show with the Spurs Michelle that's it that's progress I'm yeah I'm so happy you know patience it paid off on the map side of things Luca was there he was reminding everyone hey I'm still here and I'm kind of awesome a 30-point triple double and it's felt like especially at the end I mean he had the dagger once and for all Lou it's it's a reminder that he's top five or you know we're gonna do some top-fives today I think we're I think we're running out of space in that we are we have expectations for all of these guys but Luca had a great night he put everybody on notice you know he's he's he's on part I have a great year this is a this is a normal night for him you know 30-point triple double this is business as user for Lucas so that was a great night yeah I agree and this is obviously we're gonna continue to see a lot of this it's it's a very Joker s game right he does a little bit of everything he makes the big plays down the stretch and they kind of play very similar obviously one's a guard one's a big but no matter who's guarding Luca no matter who's guarding you can't speed him up right you can put a smaller guy under him he's still gonna use his size he's gonna slow it down put a bigger guy on him he can use the speeding it by him so there's no one way to guard this guy and you're gonna continue to see God he's that lines like this all year long yeah he's now the second favorite for the MVP running but yeah things will get it they're gonna change 48 out I know put you all your money on it right now I'm Derek lively if you were watching last night was a name you heard the entire time he had 16 and 10 I'm going to assume the maps did they know they were getting this the mavericks have been targeting Derek lively since they got back in that top 10 lottery positioning we know about what happened that last week the regular season we shot we I don't want to give us too much credit we foreshadowed we can the fact that they were gonna arrest these guys and they rested them and they got fined I think 750,000 by the league and it was a big deal that they were clearly tanking and they wanted that number 10 pick because they wanted a chance to go get Derek lively and then a moving back and that's it and they draft him and I mean Chandler could probably test this as well but all the workouts that Derek lively had in the lead up to camp they were raving about and they're like he's a starting caliber center he's like Clint Capella except longer taller lengthier a lob thread a guy that doesn't need the ball in his hands so lively last night looked so lively I'm not trying to drop too many balls show yourself he was he was he was everywhere and and I think this was the perfect mavericks game 17 and 6 for Grant Williams who they acquired Kyrie Irving hitting two clutch shots Luca Donchich having having a clutch moment at the end as well like I think it was a perfect maths game again they got to do it do this against contenders boom forward as well yeah it's crazy to think that the whole tanking thing the whole fine that mark out last year it worked and this is exactly who they wanted and this is why he's a perfect fit because he's not a big that requires the ball they're not gonna waste possessions by him going back to the basket he's a live body he's a rim runner he's a great lob threat when you have Luca and pick and roll and Kyrie and pick roll who are so good at that they can pick you apart and having him roll to the rim and just being able to throw it up while they space the floor with shooters with Tim Hardaway Jr. with curry with everything it's a great format for their offense and this kid was active he altered shots defensively he was getting to the rim he was physical like I don't know I thought he was starting all the reports all precinct that he's starting I think eventually he gets in that starting lineup but this is it's looking like a brilliant pick I want to move on to the next thing but really quickly they had Jason kid miked up for the entire second half would y'all think about that that's that was crazy to me it's scary right see yeah on national team I think they're doing that with a lot with with a lot of because the WNBA does it I guess so they're there I think they're trying to do it more I don't I can't see it last and long though because there's gonna be some loose lips all right yeah they're gonna use nothing the words the first game of the night was the Celtics Nix yeah Celtics with a spoiler in the garden 108104 Tatum finished with 34 and 11 poor zingas though might be the story here 30.8 rebounds four blocks played a lot Brunson and Randall combined for 29 the we've talked so much about all the offseason moves what's the best who did the best and then you see poor zingas last night play longer I think they said he played the entire first quarter which had not been done by him in quite some time would could this possibly be the biggest move of the offseason to quietly sure after 24 hours and after he put up you know 30 and eight against a very very solid defensive team but look he looked at good and this is the same thing that we're talking about with lively it wasn't just offensively with him he had four or five block shots he was altering shots he would come over help side he was talking this is the prison is that people expected actually it's just watching this I felt happy for him he's back in the garden where you you know he's had his ups and downs there and he just he looks confident he looked happy he looked just like just reinvented and it's a huge pickup for him because when you do have these guys like Tatum and Brown that can go and get you a bucket I so it's nice to have a seven foot too big that can stretch the floor and hit step back threes like that call glass there but this shot this shot was huge he's gonna get more wide open shots than ever he's gonna he's gonna get more wide open shots playing on the Boston Celtics this year than he did with playing with Luca just because the way they play those two guys on the wing it's it looks like a great fit but yeah if he's gonna average 30 and you know shoot 80% from the field and dying for 10th of the line it looks like it's gonna be a really good signing he was out there balling yeah for the first time in a long time it looked like he was having fun out there and you know team wise I think with how they play he gives them another big that can they can stretch the floor out without Horford out there open up those lanes for JB to go downhill for JT to go downhill but last night it was Brazilian show that's a that's a good point he looked like he was enjoying it look like it's nice to see Tatum you guys have already called it I'm just gonna have you reiterate why you think Tatum is the favorite for MVP finished with 34 and 11 what can you say look like MVP candidate to me made us look good made us look really good man 10 first quarter points it didn't force a lot I thought what it was there was one stretch in the game where he started forcing because I felt like he was trying to put the nail in the coffin he was trying to get he was trying to get New York out of there but other than that after that game MVP candidate for sure he's got third best odds maybe it's time now to take it yeah take it it's hot because it could get better you know I want to make all the money I can shams I love watching games in the garden I think it's always fun even the first game of the season the energy was good Celtics winning in that place kills nicks fans but what'd you take away from it I mean I took away that I think last year a lot of people forgot Cristos was in his average career highs and points 23 points career career high in field goal percentage 49.8 when you're playing for the wizards I think last season he got forgotten about you but he's you could tell the way he's playing it's it's different like he's I feel like he was forcing a lot of post-ups when he was with the Mavericks now he's fine being a floor spacer he's fine picking his spots and still he's putting up these these gaudy numbers most points all time for Celtics debut 30 points that's crazy five of nine I mean this could be every night where he's putting up eight to ten threes because of the wide open shots he's gonna get and I think when you look at the totality of the Celtics offseason they they essentially traded Marcus Smart Grant Williams and Rob Williams for these for this duo Drew Holiday and Cristos Prosing is they they doubled down on kind of wanting more star power wanting more guys that they can depend on because as you guys know when the when the playoffs come rotation shrink you know Lou Lou probably goes from a six man to like a fit starter like like come playoff time like rotation shrink and they went with two guys instead of three and I and I saw you Nick's fans on Twitter they were not happy with the officiating last night it was very very loud we hear you we saw you I the the flopping being a tech is an interesting one for me but they shot 37% last night and they did keep it quite close but without a superstar if they don't in the end do something this season what is the ceiling for them make the playoffs get a good matchup in round one and hopefully advance and it's tough when you don't have that go-to guy and as good as Jalen Brunson is we were talking about yesterday the day before top five point cards top seven never even mentioned this guy and he has had a he's gotten so much better each year and I love the next bench looking at the game last night honestly I have concern about the Celtics bench again Pritchard they got you know Howitzer Horford that they're not that deep there but I think the best starting five but the next bench kind of exposed them yesterday with Devin Chenzo with heart these guys quickly had a huge game so I love what the Knicks are doing I think they have this group that is very versatile they can go big they can go small I loved Hartenstein even off the bench coming in foul and hard like this was a this was a this was a great loss if that's possible on the first loss you know I mean like they look solid and they definitely can grow from this but yeah it's tough when you don't have a go-to guy when your go-to guy goes six of 21 it's tough to win games is that not good it's not great okay fair enough and then randall I mean five for 22 I mean you randall could be their best player you know is it the shoes or go on pelicans played the grizzlies and for Zion fans it was nice because you got to see him finally last time we saw him was january second he put up 23 he was nine of 17 and had seven rebounds you also had the last 12 points for the team which is nice to see a lot of injuries in this dude's career so I ask you this I want you to look into your crystal ball are we going to see are we going to get back the player that we that we all want to see about injuries yeah I am I am looking right at you because look at me the injuries got the hamstring he missed 29 last year uh foot injury eight six it's it's a lot the knee surgery and then of course the fluctuating weight which everyone seems to want to talk about all the time poor guy well here the thing is when he played this isn't about production or talent yeah when he is on the floor he is so good he is so efficient if he's playing 30 minutes he's having 25 8 and 5 you know I mean he is that good he is that talented it's just all the other stuff it's all how many games can he play how many minutes can he play what do they have enough to keep him healthy throughout an 82 game season to have him in the playoffs because when you look at their team too they're a sleeper in the west too when especially they get alvarado back they get murphy back they have that deep team they have shooting they have a little bit of everything but it's all dependent on Zion because it's again it's it's like a sad feeling because the NBA is better when he's playing and this team is dependent solely on him being healthy and dominating which he does when he's on the floor pretty much every single game we just wait for it there was a sequence of plays um where you get sort of a a flashback a glimpse I don't want to say flashback it makes it sound like he's 40 he's not there's a lot going on here we've got a lot left with him but here it is this is Zion sort of vintage oh god on jaren jack on the defensive player of the year by the way Lou take me through what you're seeing here just talent and I think what's needed from them you know on the pelicans in the long run is just for him to be healthy and be consistent uh this is back to back look at this good look at this oh my hold on with the right hand too and that's on the defensive player right it's not like it's well man efficient night 23 points nine for 17 from the field but again hate to be the dead horse but he has to stay healthy yeah and you know what I like too he's also another guy like zero threes last night he doesn't settle he gets he knows his strength he knows his weaknesses somehow when you play a guy it's like garden zebo you know he's going like you can't stop he's still getting left it's crazy how much you can force him right when he's so strong he's so physical he's he gets he can do he does what he wants that's got to be just demoralizing it's nothing you can do when he's there desmond bain on the other side of things led team with 31 points so between he and jaren jackson jr is there enough there to keep the team afloat while we wait for marant I say yes I think they're accustomed to playing without them that sometimes you know with with the injury that he had last year with the troubles that he's had um they played a lot of basketball without them so I think they keep it afloat and as long as they can defend right they have marcus smart on the wing they have jaren jackson down low so they have the the roster to be able to hold these teams to do I dare say under 100 points like you dare just that just doesn't happen these days but if they're gonna win games and they're gonna stay afloat without john marant they have to do it on the other end and then have explosive games from jay from triple j from bain all those guys marcus smart did have uh 17 it was weird seeing him come into the arena just as not a Celtic I had like a moment where I I forgot for a second uh blazers clippers another game that happened last night clippers with their first win here we go 123 111 um these are the guys you want to know about paul george 27 and six kawai 23 he was five for five from three and then scoot we wanted to see what he could oh I think I got that wrong didn't I he had 11 points four assists four turnovers oh did he end up with 11 points did you go to this one I went to that game and he didn't have his first figure I think till the third yeah I thought I thought he struggled but look he's a young guy at that age your debut you're looking at koala and paul george russo westbrook hey look at him probably all of us in the house here you are imagine live shout out to my son six I don't know we had we both had funny faces in this pic but no it's good yeah man and we had a good time at the game but I I thought scoot was uh he just looked like regular rookie nerves I think once he settles in catches a groove I think it'd be just fine but last night he you just looked like he was trying to find that play to get over the hump and never could and also I don't care how talented these rookies are how they have so many expectations right and this is the NBA this is what they've dreamed about as a kid playing in these situations like we just said this is first he's going against kawai Leonard paul george arguably two of the best perimeter defenders in the NBA so there's definitely a level of nerves same with women yama same with these other rookies they play this night but he's gonna figure it out he's gonna get more comfortable every single game Michelle just said what were our debuts oh they were pathetic they were great it probably took me 30 games to play I banked in a free throw so nervous there we are these kids are gonna be fine well I think you can see it in the way the numbers progress the first three quarters were nothing really and then he sort of maybe found himself a little bit and look he's got a a former finals MVP point guard as his coach in chauncey billups I know coaches aren't everything but they can also be a problem so how big is it that chauncey is the guy yeah I've been with chauncey as a coach a great voice um great temperament as a coach somebody that you easily can listen to because the the proof is in a pudding when you watch what he's done over the course of his career I think he's in good hands yeah and as a guard obviously you have just a different level of respect from playing for someone who's who's done it who's done it it's not just someone telling this guy's done it he's been in the trenches he's been in that film room he's been on an island with a great guard you know so he's he's been there before so it's a great role model it's a great coach for scoot just as j kid is for these other guys you know I mean so it's it's definitely better having someone that's been in your shoes before the clippers go as their two stars go and that is of course kawai and paul george but the injuries and when you think of injuries in the league it's always clippers first in most of our minds so I mean are they contenders or is that window gone no I think if those two guys are healthy they're contenders now we'll see how they you know beef up the team do they get james harden at the end of the day we'll talk about that a little bit later but I think overall if you have paul george kawai Leonard on your team they're on the floor and like shout out to rustle westbrook 11 points 13 rebounds five six give us flowers rebounds as well I throw rustle a good last night I thought he was I thought he was the key to how they play they played very fast up tempo he picked his spots to to create and transition and attack the rim rustle was the guy last night five of eight from the field like he said like he picked and chooses spots and and they got bones highland also shout out to him 17 points I think like he he's playing with a different type of energy he's kind of playing like how lou did back in the day bring that spark really he's not worried really about playmaking he's just scoring doing his thing so this is a team that has a good energy like whether they get james harden or not I think you can see there's there's an energy here I think the only problem is the health thing yeah gotta stay healthy the two main guys gotta stay healthy if they're allowed if they're able to get through this season and be intact I think they give somebody a lot of trouble if you're their teammates do you go into I mean maybe you take it week by week but are you preparing mentally like there's gonna come a time he was there I mean I was yeah so like how do you wait are you waiting for the hey these guys aren't going no it was a roller coaster it was a roller coaster did you roll your eyes something be honest no because because we got used to we were numb to it okay that's you know if we would come in if kawai had some issues and you know he's obviously the face of this low management thing he would go out and PG would step in and then PG would go out k was step in and so it was just hard to find that consistency where we needed because we were in a championship run we felt like we had the group to do it and so it was hard to just get our our feet up under us but other than that we played well but they gotta stay healthy that's frustrating and that's for those guys Terrence Mann, Norman Powell those guys have to have the understanding that there are going to be some nights where I'm going to be the guy because those guys are not going to play and they're going to be banged up but you look at this roster too they're built to win now they're not like the youngest team they're Westbrook Paul George Covington Batum Leonard like this feels like their window is getting smaller and as long as they stay healthy especially obviously those two guys not one of them they need both of those guys to be a contender at the end of this without a doubt well Lou was there at the at the front end mental game yeah he was there at the front end of this whole regime now you know these guys are both extension eligible they have not like you saw what the Lakers did with Anthony Davis they extended him right away Kawhi Leonard Paul George have been extended extension eligible for the last couple months neither have signed their extension and I think you know when you see Paul George's comments like kind of gearing up for you know they could both end up being free agents this this upcoming summer I think whatever happens this year has a lot to do with their futures with the Clippers or not going into year four with with those two guys I think they're just waiting to see what happens you know like like we just said they haven't been healthy they haven't had an opportunity to really get themselves there that championship run that they've been looking forward to when they both when they bought both of those guys in and so I think they're just holding the car seeing what happens I know we're gonna go to break but I find that interesting you both saying they're waiting to see what happens aren't they the waiting to see what happens part injury problem because what like what are they waiting to see I mean we're all waiting on that both of those guys have had major injuries and I've watched both of them fight day in and day out trying to stay healthy yeah dealing with those injuries you know so Kawhi tears his thigh up has a knee issue uh Paul George that catastrophic foot injury he had then to get injured again after that you know those guys had some real some real issues that you know I think for the first time in a long time that they they feel like they can go into the season healthy and stay that way it is interesting that like how much longer do they need to be healthy for them to get the extension another month like what's the timetable on finally being like you know what these are our guys for the next three years we see what we need yeah I mean you look at the way they're playing this out I mean if these guys have a healthy playoff run and let's say they get to the conference finals again as a duo or the NBA finals then at that point you know but again only the Clippers can answer that what their timeline is if these guys are all healthy there's a number one seed in the west at all star break and everything's good do they extend them then but they're clearly like Lou said they're holding their cards a little bit they want to see how these guys perform and I think it goes both ways I think both Kawhi and Paul George want to see how this year goes how like what's the direction for this team and with that new arena coming they don't want to be tanking and rebuilding they need these two guys they need the excitement going into that new situation so fingers cost of these guys can stay healthy because they are a very good team when they are good luck to the guys man I hope it works out I'm personally invested in that so I hope it works it'd be no I know and I think we want to see them go as far as possible and maybe it'll be with or without James Harden when we come back the latest on him and how did Ben Simmons look oh man when run it back returns I truly wish I got paid extra every time I asked the next question because I'd be rich shams what's the latest on James Harden so James Harden was away from the team we and we spoke about this live he reported back to the team after 10 days yesterday but there wasn't really much the Sixers held the practice James Harden did a little bit of pre-practice drills he really stood on the side for most of practice I sold at one point he was sitting in a chair watching five on old drills didn't participate in that but then he wanted to travel with the team and want to accompany them they have a two-game road trip Thursday in Milwaukee Saturday in Toronto uh source told me he had his bags packed ready to go he made multiple efforts to travel with the team but the team asked him not to travel to stay home he wanted to be around the team work out with the assistant coaches the team wanted him to be essentially at home training and working out with their medical staff with their performance team and so this is just another you know aspect of this whole saga that we've been tracking for now a couple months and then the Sixers did not want James Harden to be a distraction for this team on the road they play on national tv tonight against the Milwaukee Bucks to me there's no sign that James Harden is going to play anytime soon as he tries to ramp up and the question really becomes when and if Daryl Mori just eventually moves him I think it's moving into that inevitable stage does it finally happen uh do we think he'll train super hard uh when he's home alone or how do we think this will go listen it just seems like a constant battle and now it's like James Harden can say he tried right he went to the plane they I'm picturing the way I'm picturing it play out my head is hysterical but now I now in his head the balls in Daryl's court you know I tried I want to be there I want to retire six years so it's eventually I think it's not going to get cured anytime soon I think it's only going to continue to get worse he's going to continue to miss more and more games um but yeah this it's it's it's funny when you say like he went to the plane and they didn't let him on the plane like if that's how do you know that I give this to his credit despite popular opinion jh works extremely hard so he will be doing he does all the good things when they're gone he won't be mad and sort of this is the thing they talk about ramp ups I heard james harden been doing two days in houston for the last week so he works man so it's just purely they don't want to and that doesn't just happen overnight right he's not gonna if he we'll see right we'll see what kind of shape he looks and we'll see if he puts up crazy numbers and like like the yokich thing acting like he's had to create an off season doing horses that guy clearly was grinding james harden's no dummy he knows that at the end of the day he's whenever he comes to play he's got to produce and he's got to be that guy all right so back into the minds of the players um the ones that are carrying on the show how do you handle that you knowing that we're probably never going to have him back as a teammate but what happens now nobody knows you're trained for it um when you play on teams we always have that next man up mentality that you know those guys watch tv as well they've been watching the saga over the summer and getting ready for the season so him not being there i think they were already prepared for that yeah and james again this aura this this reputation he has he's this bad guy he's not i play with him i i love james harden he's also one of my favorites yeah he is one of my favorite teammates i've ever had it's just he's put himself in this kind of situation where he's under a microscope and he's this light shines on him and and has he handled everything perfectly no but when the more the longer this continues and keeps going i don't think it lingers in the locker room i like tyrese max he's not mad at james harden you you get to a point where you understand it's a business and james harden's doing what's best for james harden and that's not personal to nurse or or tyrese or joel he's doing what he wants to do for his career and it's just as a teammate like lou said you get numb to it you get you train to it and if i'm another guy with an opportunity as a younger guy i'm almost kind of happy i kind of want him to stay away but do you talk like like would you guys text him and be like hey what's going like what's going on we know what's going on but you don't it's not like i because i would wonder how sometimes that works i i'm a pro too yeah so i gotta get ready i gotta get ready for the season i gotta get ready for games and road trips as well so i can't be wrapped up and worried about what james is doing and again like i'm kelly ubré i'm de anthony melton i'm these guys this is more opportunity for me so take advantage of it now while you can there was uh some news yesterday that the all-star game is going back to east versus west because feelings were definitely hurt i told you guys yoke itch was mad last year you can't get big last um why why why well no no no more player draft and i think they looked at indianapolis being the you know uh naysmith you know revolutionized basketball they're made basketball popular there and i think that was one of the one of the reasons but adam silvers said yesterday the player participation rule we want guys that play harder in the all-star game they feel like east versus west could be an answer to that um so no more player draft it's going back to the traditional east versus but that's where we started and like good luck like if i'm on the rockets you think i care that the west conference is wins the all-star game there's no real solution here i will say why can't you do world versus the us i like the idea one east versus west or giving finals home court advantage something has to be a state i mean you'd have to cut 12 all-stars i mean you're not gonna have a 24 guy and the minute someone actually plays hard and god forbid gets hurt in this game like it's just there's no solution all-star weekend it sucks and it's i like going back to the jerseys where even wear your own jerseys they're never gonna play hard never hold on you guys you're ruining it for everyone else at home so you're telling me you're never gonna this doesn't do it this doesn't make it more interesting no but i do say i hated the draft i think i finally make my all-star game and i get shit on on national tv getting drafted last like i think that's i think that's hilarious i think that's the facial expression it's sad it was sad last year the peak of your career you make an all-star game oh my god and then the most embarrassing thing you get drafted last on national tv it felt very um like just two white dudes were sitting on the stage yeah and the mvp and the mvp goes last sick draft it kind of made me feel bad for everybody involved like uh this is honesty time truth serum how do dudes really feel about all-star week would y'all just rather have just give me the week off just give them the week off i'd rather be honored with making the all-star game while getting the news in turks and kekos for the week off you know i mean you go there to build your brand to make money to go to parties you don't go there to like compete against the western conference you don't care san is dead even the practices are like it's a spectacle is the fans are there it's a sold-out crowd for practice like how serious can you take the game could you just make it two days like y'all fly in you do one day you play and you're out then you have i mean you can cut yeah it's kind of you know others do fly on saturday play the game and then go vacation the reality of it is you're 50 plus games in at that point you want to break yeah it's kind of like an interruption when you know for a fact the rest of the league is somewhere having a ball that's true too oh just make it i know it makes a lot of money it creates a lot of revenue fans love it but to make it like all mba just tell tell me who's an all-star and then just have nothing no game no slam don't it's just it's so it's such a i like the game like it's i like the pageantry of it i just don't think they're ever going to play hard it's never going to be a good competitive game where you see the top 24 mba players in the world play we're sad these are two players i know i can't speak so i can't argue from from the experience of it but uh you listen the dunk contest i think was fun last year a couple years ago in chicago chicago all-star weekend like because the city was Chicago that was the first elemending and also chicago for sure but elemending first year of that that game was that game was live even the dunk contest last year ended up being cool but like i didn't know two of the people in it like can i tempt you with one thing we ran out of dunks have we ran out of dunks no someone's going to start going between the legs twice i was doing a lot of stuff out of nowhere and he's got stuff in the bag who's he playing for that a i didn't say i didn't say he's a nice player now no it doesn't matter so there's the there's an issue you know the fans are there to see the people that they really love and admire even though he put on a serious show he did a lot of things but it's kind of like i want to see jodd dunk i want to see zion zek what if we do it in a like a like one city that everybody loves what if we change the city the host does that well that's another thing we haven't got into that like it's february and cleveland for all-star weekend when my teammates are in bombers well it's indian apples this year it it isn't it isn't the bay next year though that's awesome that's a little better don't stay that's better yeah indian apples this year it's indian apples we're not doing that right okay good um i just want to make sure we've seen wemby and chet but how did the thompson twins look that's coming back when run it back returns well we had uh we had more games and we heard about ben simmons in the off season so everyone's curious first game since february 15th but the calves win this one it was a thriller how about that first game of the season mitchell with 27 6 and 4 ben simmons hmm four points ten assists nine rebounds and camp tom has had a night 36 uh points in 25 minutes look ben simmons was back in the starting lineup and it's you know in his defense it's been quite quiet because we've had so many other things to talk about but what do they need from him for things to work having aggressiveness like i think i think the nets want to see more aggressive ben simmons um i think you know you you saw a little bit of it in preseason shooting jumpers a little bit more but uh you know kudos to him he had nine ten assists ten rebounds um but i think you know late in games last season jock bond went away from ben simmons because of the of the liability potentially on offense he did so again last night uh ben simmons benched down the stretch of the game they went heavy with mckell bridges camp thomas camp johnson with the ball in their hands so ben simmons having more aggressiveness but if you if you're the nets you know continuing to you know having ben simmons as your point guard leading your offense i can't count how many point guards in league today are not a threat offensively as far as being able to shoot being able to score um and and the nets kind of have that in ben simmons you know is a point forward roll more more apt for him uh you know this is all for for jack wall in the nets to figure out have you given up on the version of ben simmons that we may never see like all star version yeah the best yeah that ships out and it's i love to see him out there playing but like shan said it i just don't understand where's that aggressiveness where's that versatility when he and it's the power of social media too right i almost started believing seeing these highlights videos i'm like oh shit he's back he's back then the game starts and he's he gets timid and he's six ten and has this frame and can go coast to coast and has great vision drop in dimes and he just it's he plays scared and i don't know what happened when how we got here but the fact that he's playing and he's healthy that's that's a good start but yeah the idea of that he's just going to turn into 20 and 10 all star ever again is is not possible i was part of the beginning of the end that that sixes hawks uh oh that match up where you didn't take the lip oh we were having a ball with that i'm not rooting against ben simmons i would like for him to really find middle ground in um how he's portrayed and just being healthy again and being on the floor having an impact what is worse to be hyped and to disappoint or to never have been hyped at all to be hyped and disciplined yeah i mean it's you don't ever want to be labeled a bust right you don't want to have all this talent that just doesn't pay it out people had such high expectations that would be a hard burden to carry on the other side uh cavaliers talented young core but donovan mitchell's the dude and the question is quite simple can he be the number one guy on a contending team lou i think so i just don't think it's this group fair enough yeah i just i just don't think it's this group i think they're talented i think they're going to make some noise in the east um but i think he could be a number one guy on a really good team built around yeah i agree and i think the experience they got last year in the post season and going through that i think it's really going to help them but looking at the eastern conference there's a huge gap between them and the top and they're kind of right jumbled in the middle so it just shows you how top-heavy the eastern conference is but yeah i love evan mobley i think the max truce pickup was great yeah i think he had a big nine threes last night so i do think there's garland was an all star last year so i think they have the pieces to continue to get better but like lou said there's still there's still a ways away but it's something is there's something specific missing i think they just need they need something else they need that one two punch they need they need some they need more vets they need a deeper bench and and they need a collection of things it's just the the the conference is so loaded where it's tough it's tough to compete they're going to be kind of in there in the middle and they're going to be fun to watch they're going to be a tough team to beat four times in the post season but they're just missing one or two pieces uh thunder bowls at the thunder team might be kind of fun to watch i'm not gonna lie um they crush the bowls 124 104 chat all eyes 11 points four rebounds zero blocks nice sga finished with 31 10 my god of 18 there he is there he is top five so a lot top five top five look channel we know chet chet missed his rookie season his quote unquote rookie season blake griffin also did that and then came back and won rookie of the year i know he's very much on the running for favorites of this kenny i think so and i thought he was my pick pre-season and i just think that the year that the thunder will have as a team puts him ahead of those guys again scoots gonna have a great year with numbers wimby's gonna have a great year brandon miller's gonna have big games so is chet and he's gonna be on a you know a six to eight whatever see they end up getting so i think that helps him a lot and again that year of just practicing with these guys being in the weight room being in an mba facility all year long is huge to his growth it's it's it's he almost shouldn't be eligible to win rookie of the year i mean like feelings about it it's not really fair like blake it was so good but like he's not a rookie he's already been through the whole year of shootarounds and i mean but you can make that case with a glee guys too yeah but they're playing against other glee and overseas got like wimby's has been a pro five years already yeah i just 12 she's still a pro i actually do i get it like i intellectually i understand why he's in the running but you're right it's kind of he's he's been somewhere for a year he's been with those same coaches in that system when he knows that offense even though he didn't play it i disagree he literally has seen those practices for a year and again you know i respect college i respect your league but like the mba is another level and he's had a year under his belt that brandon miller hasn't the alabama university alabama doesn't have the same things that the Oklahoma city thunderduce i think it's a huge advantage i don't know i i'm i'm gonna stay on the international guys i think this is where my this is where my argument is gonna live because i'm i'm just picturing luca in my head as 16 years old playing in the olympics yeah that that experience is worth more than i think the university alabama or being in that practice facility for a year so i say no i say it's cool okay i might i can't argue with that i mean that that is fair he had a moment last night is is it his welcome to the nba moment it's the official one this is a thing uh let's check out chat right here trying to i don't know what do you guys think is this the moment oh that's it come on you gotta give germany credit for that he's 6 11 moving like that come on let's give him credit hey howie ouch i think it's more of a slip okay so we don't count it break them off it just looked bad yeah i think did you have did you guys do you remember your welcome to the league mine was similar to that really nash put me clean on my ass you've nashed it yes he did quick crossover i was a little excited putting me down we need the footage of that yeah i'd like to see that i know i can't we'll find it within the four minutes that i played we'll get it we'll find it quickly we'll get it it's somewhere in there wait do you have one do you remember yours not like a comment honestly i think just banking a frito is almost like embarrassing that is not a welcome to the league moment no i don't remember i don't remember the exact where i got you know my ankles broke or dunked on bad i don't remember exactly that but i'm there was plenty okay fair enough there was plenty you want to talk a little sga top five um mvp wise realistically what do you think no should no not there yet um i'm i'm going stop i'm all in stop all in you can't win mvp on the 10th seed why not but you can win it on like four that's true like four you can win it wait plus 1800 ooh that's a good the odds are the gamblers paradise wait listen we go for it is but we talked about all these guys in the top five joking around but really we'd name like nine people yeah that's fair it's a tall task is it possible sure but i think there's too good of talent too good of teams for you know the thunder to have a rep a guy rep whatever he's gonna have the publicity machine behind him though now he dress like carries himself league fit he's yeah he's turning it he's turning into a pop culture type of first team league he's gonna have that attention on him he just did the modeling shoot for scams he's scams too he's scams this is scams by the way did you get paid for that no wish trying to right now that was a good call the bulls already had some drama billy donovan left the locker room at the players request what was going on in there i think a lot of frustration last night with the bulls is that it was the same old and players led by nikola busovich i'm told they expressed that the offense was the same as last year they thought it was going to be a different offense they disliked what happened last night and there were some pretty poignant remarks when i'm told last night from the players about the fact that they weren't passing the ball enough and the fact that they feel like they need a true point guard in chicago and so when you think about the future of the of the bulls they have zac levine locked in long term they give nikola busovich a two-year a three-year extension in the summer demarger rozen is on an expiring contract right now he's extension eligible the bulls want to bring demarger rozen back whether that's in an extension or free agency they've been talking about an extension but i'm told that the sides are apart right now in on multiple fronts years salary and also demarger rozen wants to see where this bulls team goes they're all in one to start the year they had a players meeting after game one of the season and so that that's not the way to start the year but demarger rozen wants to see where this is going we like ready we said this last year this is the team's really off to the start they're going to blow it up and then they didn't have a great start and they have the same team back of course it's the same offense it's the same team like i don't know what didn't they know it was gonna be the same offense or the whistle like a whole camp during it so why wait why not i don't know but i i like it let's let's get it out the out the way now usually with with player player only meetings is a little too too late ten games and two and eight yeah when when it's already set and done and nothing can really change so to try to get on the same page after game one i'm cool with it and this is a vet team these guys are these these guys have been there before and they don't want to lose but this is a team i fully expect that is disappointing when's the earliest you guys had a play yeah like meeting in a season one game i think like yeah like yeah like three and seven start then you're panicking yeah i think we we usually go like ten game increments so it's like after our first show on monday like guys we need to talk about what just happened we're talking about mvp odds after one game of course they're talking they're they're it's but it's weird to me to be like we've had an entire time we practice we had training camp we did all these things and then go out there and be like huh it's the same offense y'all knew it's also interesting when a team that you know just doesn't expect you think the bulls just magic you're going to be good this year like what do you think it's delusional but when you have a player's only meeting and the coach isn't in there i don't think that he's the topic of discussion i think they're getting some things understood within themselves and i played for that man for four years he he will get and he will eat through you he will go nuts so it's probably best that he stepped out of the room because he's got that new york thing where he's not backing down i'll be right back thanks so much uh we will be right back with uh some picks and some see how we did on our first round of those when run it back returns wrapping things up our first week in the books lou how you feeling i'm amazing oh he's feeling that's about me i'm him and it's your birthday tomorrow you called me out guard i didn't expect you to ask me a question what what do you mean exactly you got to be on your toes on this set i'm not on the script i'm not on there we're doing this on the script first week was amazing thank you guys we did it hopefully we'll all be back next week and we are going to the laker lakers game tonight is that what's happening i think i think another is a game time decision i think i'm a late scratch but late scratch i don't know if that's confirmed i think he's still going to be pulling this over this afternoon i need six gallons of caffeine is ejected into my veins and we'll be fine we'll see you guys on monday enjoy the weekend


Welcome everybody and good afternoon and hopefully you've had an enjoyable open source summit virtual experience. Thank you for coming to this talk. I'm going to talk today about growing your open source project. To become an umbrella project and what that looks like and you know just kind of dig into that and really talk about it from the perspective of a project that I've worked with the open mainframe project that went through this process. So one of the things a lot of people don't realize sometimes about open source projects. Well, you know the real interesting and dynamic parts are certainly all the coding and you know the collaboration that's happening there. There's a lot of work to getting these done. A lot of that work is really the things that happen behind the scenes or the folks that that are really driving the technical decision making. You know they, they may not think about they might kind of find as, you know, a bit out of their scope a little bit out of their wheelhouse, but they're really critical as you scale up your project and when it's, you know, just you and a couple people it's one thing. When you're growing this larger, it becomes bigger. You know the first thing you start hitting in infrastructure of builds where this code's hosted pieces like that. You start to get into the legal aspects of it. You know how is the licensing handled how am I ensuring the code Providence is taken care of how the technical decisions start being made, and it just starts going on and on and on and sometimes a lot of communities almost feel like they're kind of caught in this process of operations piece, but these are really the important things this is what makes these large and even you know smaller than those sustainable open source projects really really work. Now, a lot of these practices you can almost bring from project to project a lot of times there's a lot of similarities there's a lot of interconnection. So this concept of an umbrella starts to emerge. So, imagine this here and this you'll have to deal with my crew drawing of an umbrella here. They have multiple projects that have a interrelation of one another, you know, either they're focusing on the same horizontal area. They're looking at the same vertical perspective. They have natural interconnections with one another, but ended up themselves are sort of driven one by one. They're driven individually is independent projects, all of those pieces of how a project runs from an operational standpoint. Often we see that can be shared with one another. And usually they kind of split into two different pieces. There's one that kind of works on, we call the funding governance. So this is the people that this is sort of the group that is looking at if how funds are managed or operations are managed how, you know, budget staffing allocation, all of these things often a lot of the non technical direction around trademark compliance and advocacy and pieces like that. And there's a split between that and the technical coordination which are not a lot of ways very different discipline. You know that technical coordination is the one of how do we how do we help bring these communities together how do we create a space that these projects can collaborate. How can we provide common infrastructure to get these projects successful so they're not spinning one on each other every single time. How do we put together a life cycle we'll talk about what that sort of looks like later. And this is sort of the area in which they try to focus on it's a very clear delimitation we put in here. You'll notice one is not above the other, they're on the same line, because they handle different pieces there. There's interdependencies, you know there's ways where they interface. There's no, there's not a reporting relationship here it's a peer relationship, and they often focus in different ways. So, what makes this model work really well. You have a big time you have one big tent that everything can fit into and with that everything that you do from an outreach perspective from a governance perspective from a budget and operations perspective. You can streamline because you can share a lot of these pieces across I mean even simple things if you're, you know, spinning up a shared build infrastructure, you know as opposed to having each community have their own individual ones, you have one everyone can use it. You can maybe make it a little bit more robust because of that, but the costs overall work a lot lower. And even as you're doing events, you know, such as this one here, you can do that in conjunction together you can, you know, speak together. You know, have co events that you're doing co content marketing, and you're able to get more avoid so as opposed to everyone trying to work on this individually, you work together. And you can talk to that larger audience more effectively. So that's kind of the whole background of why this umbrella model tends to work and we've seen a lot of success over the last two years here the Linux foundation with us. You know, both from a horizontal perspective so looking at like a cloud native computing foundation or an LF edge and LF energy CD foundation, but also from a vertical perspective. Academy software foundation is a great example of that that just looks at that entire VFX motion picture industry segment and the open source and that. So, how did we get here. Why did how did open mainframe project even exist like what is even the concept of why it's here. And you have to look back to look forward. So, if you go way back to 1955 share was established and for those of you aren't familiar share is a conference that was established amongst mainframe operators as a way for them to basically share practices share code. You know, share best practices share tips, maybe not the same way that we would do today they might be using sort of different mediums, but that's where it started in and you know for folks that know their open source history. You know we can point back to share in 1955 as where the historical root of open source started it wasn't called open source back then. But that's where it all started and we fast forward a few decades here to you know open source really taking root on the mainframe with Linux coming in major Linux distribution customers moving over and then projects coming over as well. And naturally when you start to get to that point where you hit that critical mass things become a little bit interesting. And this is often the times when we work with projects that we see they're kind of hitting a little bit of a glass ceiling. They have often vendors are doing the lead here. So, the events end up being very industry specific very vendor specific and there's no agnostic approach. You know enterprises have difficulty engaging with upstream project it's very one on one. There's a lot of effort just become very disconnected there's no natural way to share you see one off partnerships happening. But really the thing that we saw here is that open source needed a neutral home to get to that next level of growth. So, the open mainframe project was born here and really with these three principles, eliminating barriers demonstrating value of the mainframe on technical business levels and strengthening collaboration for the community to thrive. And I highlight this last one because I think this is a real, real critical one. And this was sort of the driver of why this project started to embrace the umbrella model. They knew that this was a unique opportunity to bring together this community, but they needed to create the space for it. So, this ecosystem had a number of challenges and we touched on a little bit of them of, you know, where it's hard to do open source and really where the challenges and the real hard work in here. But all of these things were coming very true. There was a lot of fragmentation there was a lot of cross pollination on the governance side with these projects. Many of them were spun up either by individual organizations, individuals out in the wild, all sorts of different ways. And there wasn't really a standard way for folks to engage. And even with that, a lot of these things were developed in a very specific product need, you know, versus sort of that larger ecosystem platform play. And, you know, again, as you keep going forward here, the assets need managed and all of these things get just very, very, they're impossible, but they're just a lot of work to do. And that glass feeling that we talked about hits in there. A great example of where we really saw this as an opportunity for open mainframe is project that came in open source summit two years ago called Zoe. And this was the real first, I would say major community project we had others ones that we were working on but this. This is really here this community started to do this at scale. And they had a large problem at hand. And I would spend a lot of time into the details you can read some of the slides here. But, you know, we've made a lot of great, great progress in here. And in a probably not the most ideal way, you know, the concept of building umbrella, we sort of ended up doing a little bit backwards because we saw the need of a large project coming in here. It needed to have sort of its own independence, but it needed the support of a foundation to be able to thrive. So we had to spend a lot of time in focusing on this. And the two things we did out of the gate very quickly was, what does it look like to be a project hosted here. So we needed to go through and put together services and value prop for projects that are coming into here. What do you get for being a project here what what should you expect what's the value that can be brought to the table for that. And then the second half and we'll dig into this a little bit more in the next slide here is a framework for projects to exist in. We refer to that here as a life cycle and the aim of a life cycle is to inset it to ensure that that's consistent quality and sustainability of projects. It doesn't necessarily get into the depths of whether the code is good or not, but it's really focused on is this is this a good writing project is this, you know, a project that has the sustainability to drive forward. And what, you know, if you're thinking about a life cycle and you know there's there's different models that we've seen of this or the Apache software foundation has something very similar. But, you know, for us it looks at a three stages where you have an incubation stage where projects are just coming in the door they're starting to figure themselves out. And really, the focus at that stage is getting your stuff together with my processes with my practice with my governance how do I get releases out the door. How do I decide on whether it can it goes in. You know, who decides that what does that look like what's the pieces there how can people contribute code, you know what are the expectations for a contributor do they need tests. Do they need to sign a CLA do they need to, you know, do something different to be CEO, you know, who's owning the copy know what license even depict. There's a lot of work to do in that stage there but it's an area where the project can just really sit and focus on that sustainability but then also starting to build up that committer base because as a project is moving to active. They need to be not only mature, but they need to be diverse and diverse means a lot of different things. I look at diverse, not only from what we might traditionally think of is, you know, gender, race, ethnicity background age, which I think are all real, real critical things for an open source project, but also vendors, you know, who are the people employed by if everybody's employed by one organization. And that organization decides, you know, we're not focusing this on anymore. Projects dead. If you have a few organizations focused on it and one pulls out. Kind of hard, but the project can still go on. And that's really the big ticker is when you move into active state you have that diversity ability. You have that sustainability that comes in there. And now you're able to turn your focus on how, how is the downstream usage, how is the adoption of this all coming together. You know, this is where you see training come through this is where you see conformance and certification programs come through. This is when you see sort of downstream ecosystems start being built. The activity really starts to get in there. And then, you know, open source projects, they don't last forever technologies necessarily sometimes aren't relevant forever. And as that comes, there needs to be a home for these assets because there are still going to be people using them out there. They can't just kind of go in the wild and being able to have a home for them is a real, real critical thing. And that's often referred to as emeritus where you have often seen the term addict come in there as well. So, as we started to assess how all this fits in here, one of the, one of the first things we needed to do is see, okay, what actual, we have this Zoe project. This is one that's driving it. And that's one set of use cases of what a project needs. What is the rest need? What is that broader scope need? And, you know, we said at the gate, this is a great area for bringing in the concept of the landscape and you might have seen these before we have a number of foundations and projects that use these. And really, it's a way to understand what that open source space looks like. It's a great internal facing tool for you as a foundation is attacked to be able to sort of wrap your head around what the open source project space looks like. But that's also a great external tool.  And it's just a great tool for doing that. So, our next challenge was, okay, we have this great project Zoe getting some traction. We're learning a lot of things. At the same time, we're really hitting some nice strides. And what we found very interesting here is you see Zoe was one of this first round of projects. In 12 months, we had six brand new projects, which for some other foundations that may not be that big of a deal. But if you look before here, we had three. So within the course of a year, we went from three to nine. And already in 2020, we're, you know, just barely through halfway of the year, we already have three and there's a few more that are in the pipe coming as well. So we have this influx that's starting to come in, and it's not unsustainable at all, but it makes you start to sit back and think, how can we make sure we're doing this well? How can we make sure that we're being, you know, not just fair to projects, but we're serving them adequately. We're serving them where they need to be. We're adding the right level of value and they're being able to step back as, you know, see, hey, this is a place where we fit in. This is a place that, you know, we see some natural affinity. So one of the first things we dug into there was that cross-community collaboration. And we know from open source projects that being able as a project to be able to collaborate with one another, sort of outside of maybe your immediate domain, but into your broader domain is just a huge value add. And sometimes it's really hard. Sometimes you don't know where all these projects actually are. You don't know who the leads are. You don't know what they're working on. You don't know, you know, where they're looking to go. And when you have an umbrella, all of a sudden you have that natural area of this to come together. I mean, it just, just from the visual standpoint, you have all these projects that are lined up one another. They're all deemed to be in the same space. And I use that sort of term loosely, you know, either the same horizontal technology space, the same vertical space, you know, the same, they're all naturally interrelated. But there's a lot that just needs to be facilitated there. And it's also getting some of these projects to be able to come out of that individual community bit and sort of look at the broader world around them. And that's something we actually noticed a lot with open mainframe as our Zoe project is spending a lot of time really working on building their ecosystem. They weren't seeing a lot of the other new projects that were coming in. And I remember a few months ago we actually had a webinar around a number of our projects and Zoe was one of them. And the biggest comment I heard, and this was especially from folks in the Zoe community is they sat back and said, Wow, this is pretty interesting other projects here like we, there's some areas where I think we align and we could benefit from one another and we could help use what they're working on or learn more from what they're working on or or something like that. That is sort of ends up being a real natural collaboration point and you know webinars are certainly that way that a lot of this is where this technical advisory committee has really came into play for us. That's where our projects have come together. They're able to share what's going on. They're able to share challenges. We had a tech meeting a few weeks ago with one of our projects in incubation that was struggling to get their community up and going. They were struggling to get engagement. They didn't really know what to do. And they in a half hour conversation with the tech, they walked away with a handful of ideas and two or three people that were willing to jump into that community and give them a hand and show them some expertise and show them what they're working on. And it's all of a sudden started to emerge a lot of that best practices of how these things work. Another thing that we did was have that every single project coming in has a sponsor from the tech. This is has sort of two benefits we've seen one is the tax sort of know something's coming. Because usually that tech members communicating with other tech members and you know they're able to talk about you know what's coming down the pipe. Two, since they're the people that approve projects coming in, they sort of know the context already of, is this a project that fits? Is this not? What does it need to address to make it fit? What are the areas it needs to stay out of? And it's also, you know, as a project is going through the proposal process, there's a lot it needs to learn. There's a lot of, you know, just questions that they've never been able to tackle. And having someone from the tech who has went through the approval and have seen these projects grow, they're able to add that guidance right away. So that's a huge, huge help. Another challenge. And we talked about this a little bit with the life cycle is how do we make sure that projects are, we're adding the right level of support for them. But here's sort of the wrinkle. Not all projects necessarily need the same level of support because sometimes it just doesn't make sense. And you talked about it, you know, we're looking at different stages here. A incubating process project is really focused on getting governance together, processes together, starting to get some people to start working in the community. You know, really trying to get their house in order and spending time on helping them build a training program and spending time on helping them build a downstream ecosystem. It's probably a lot for them. It's way too much for them. That's too many things to execute on once, especially when they're laser focused on how do I build a sustainable project going forward. So we did a couple of things here. And then if you look at an active stage project, they're at the point they have their community set, they got their processes in line. Now they're thinking of all those things. I need training programs. I need, I want to start doing events, you know, that specific I want to build ecosystem development platforms, all these sorts of things. So different levels of maturity at a different wrinkle into this as well. So a few of the things we started working on here, which has really worked out nice is, like I said, in the incubation process, when projects are in incubation, we focus on getting them through incubation. That's what they need. Getting the requirements of incubation done for our projects, you know, which is all of those things of governance, you know, committed diversity and all of those projects. All of those processes is all of that. They need that help. They're at that stage where they have code. They have an idea. They have some people that are early on wanting to involve. They need to get through incubation. They need to get all of those other pieces in order so they can be successful. And that's where the tax sponsor can come in. It can also help tie into other parts of the community. We've also found that we're creating these outreach opportunities as opposed to leaving it for the projects to figure out what's create opportunities for them to opt into. So, you know, things like we've done webinar series were invite projects and to have a part later this week. We're doing an hour and a half co location event that we're having a number of our projects present at. We try to make sure we get them included in the blog and we try to give them a structure of how that fits in there. Because again, a lot of these folks have never thought of like what larger outreach or an open source looks like. So that's a really big area to focus on. And then once people get once these projects get into that mature phase, that's the time then we're sitting we're partnering with them we're figuring out how do we help get that broad exposure. So the needs start to begin to change as you go through. So, I know this is a very, very high level overview on the whole concept of an umbrella. There's a lot more depth to it. There's a lot more nuances on it. A couple of things that if you're thinking about this right now that are maybe great ways to start to see if this is something that fits really well for you. You know, certainly I talk about the landscape is a great way just to understand is there a space for this is there actually an area where umbrella could serve. Working with related projects to start and especially ones that have common synergy with them is a huge value point there. And then thinking about what projects fit around in the life cycle perspective, and, you know, life cycles I've seen said a number of different areas, but they tend to have three really distinct phases that formation incubation figuring stuff out that mature, building ecosystem, building larger community stuff out and then that path of how they wind down at the end. So with that, I know we're right at time here. I'm definitely open for questions. I saw one has already came through here. One of them and I'll read it out loud here. The umbrella model is obviously good for vendors and corporate members who wish to commercialize the products under the umbrella as a single product, but is it just as good for the actual community itself. From our experience and from my experience, I actually would say yes. And I've seen this in a couple of different ways. One is is we've seen a lot of times that these projects are difficult sometimes to contribute to because the contribution guidelines, the IP guidelines, things of that nature. You know, they're, they're hard to work with and in the Academy Software Foundation, there's a number of projects that we've worked with there, where it was just really hard because of the ownership and where these projects live. It's really hard for people to contribute to it is really hard for people to use it. The idea of having an umbrella model, not only just brought awareness to what was going on it brought awareness to the projects themselves. But it also created a much more consistent experience for folks to be able to contribute to it. So the community has seen a huge, huge benefit there as well. The other thing that we've seen is when you have these umbrellas, it naturally helps build great opportunities to talk about these projects publicly. So, you know, we've seen a lot of our projects will do, you know, daytime events like one day events around all their umbrella projects, each of the projects have an opportunity to be a part of that. It talks about how these fit together. Imagine each of these projects trying to do it on their own, not just the coordination, but the cost. It would get, you know, just over it just makes it overly too complicated for a lot of these folks. And what we've seen here is by taking those, you know, sort of common needs and help bringing it together under, you know, one group to work with. Oftentimes they just benefit from one another. So you have these natural pieces that come up. But two, they're able to execute it on it so much easier because there's just so much overlap and so many of these activities that make it a ton easier. So hopefully that answers your question. I don't know if we have any other questions in the chat coming through. I don't think I see any. Awesome. Well, with that, I think I'm at the end of my time here. I want to thank everyone very much for attending here. Oh, wait a minute. I think I have another one that's coming through here. Speaking underneath the wire. So it seems these umbrella models make it easier for the economic portion of the project thrive, but you worry about the extra level of influence economics that it can take place in the community dynamic. You know, it's really interesting. So certainly there, you know, I think with anything influence is is a component you one has to sort of consider and any of these projects that all said, I really almost see the umbrella is just an extension of the already existing, you know, you know, duocracy that happens. You know, remember how we structure how have we seen these things structured successfully is there's a technical governance and leadership on one side and a, you know, business fiduciary on the other side. And the fiduciary is just really making sure that the what's put together here in the community, you know, they're able to provide the community with what they need to succeed. Is that infrastructure is that events is that, you know, dollars for staff, all of these things. That's what they sit and focus on so. And it's it's purposely separated from the technical governance because that really focuses on very hard and fast pieces. So, you know, is that duocracy? Are you stepping up to do the work? And then looking at it how it fits in a life cycle where projects have very clear guidelines that they have to hit to. So, I mean, I'm sure in this world, anything is possible. But what I have seen is keeping things in a very practical sense and a very pragmatic sense, which technical communities are really good at help separate this out. And really, we've seen most technical communities. They don't even have to deal with all of the fiduciary half of stuff. It's just there for them. And that's what and so they're able to focus on building great technology. So hopefully that answers your question. And I recognize we're over time right now. So I want to thank everyone for attending. And I will be in the Slack chat after this if you have any questions.


I'll come to the session in which we would look at a bonds payable issuance, a topic that's covered on the CPA exam as well as intermediate accounting. Now, this topic is important because bonds is a critical component of the CPA exam. So if you're not comfortable with the topics of bonds, you should not sit for the CPA exam. Specifically, this exercise, I would say considered an advanced exercise in a sense that you're gonna be dealing with accrued interests and you're gonna be dealing with the bond issued other than the issuance date. So you have many issues that deal with in this problem. So if you understand this problem, that's great. If not, you need to go back and learn your basics about bond because you cannot go into the exam without having a strong foundation. Like this exercise is more than a basic, but if you feel you're totally confused, then you have to go back and review bond basics.  I strongly suggest you take a look at my website, farhatlectures.com. I don't replace your CPA review course. Most likely you are taking a CPA review course. That's a great. I am a useful addition. I can be an additional resource, an alternative explanation for your CPA material, which in turn will help you with your review course, which in turn will help you pass the exam. Your risk is one month of subscription. Your potential gain is passing the exam. I align my courses to go with your courses. So it's easy to follow my courses along your other course. And if not for anything, take a look at my website to find out how well or not well your university doing on the CPA exam. And this is a list of all the courses that I cover. If you haven't connected with me on LinkedIn, please do so. Take a look at my LinkedIn recommendation. Like this recording, share it with others, subscribe. Connect with me on Instagram, Facebook, Twitter, and Reddit. So let's take a look at this exercise Madam issued 800,006% bond at 97.5 plus accrued interest on August 1st, 2001. That's fine. This is when we issued the bond. August 1st, 800,000 is the face value. It's paying 6%. It was issued at 97.5. Obviously it was issued at a discount and we issued it plus accrued interest. Once we say accrued interest, it means the bond was not issued when it's initial date. What does that mean? Let's read further. The bonds are, not AER, nine-year bonds dated December 1st, 2010. So they were dated. The original date of the bond was December 1st, but we did not issue them until August 1st. So simply put, if this is year one and this is year two, this is when they were actually, if you look at the bond itself, it's dated December 1st. Let's make it year zero. And let's make this year one to be consistent. It was not issued until August 1st. So notice there is December, January, February, March, April, May, June and July. One, two, three, four, five, six, seven, eight. There was eight month between the date is what it was dated and the date it was issued. So that's the first thing. That's why we might have to deal with some accrued interests. It paid interest on June 1st and December 31st. Now this is important, although it was not issued until that time, that's fine, but it pays interest on December and on June. What does that mean? It means we are gonna be assuming that all the accrued interests was made, was prepared. Now, the company uses the straight line method for bond amortization and calendar year as physical year. That's fine, their calendar year is the same as their physical year, which is December 31st. First, they want us to prepare the journal entry on August 1st when it was issued. So the journal entry here. Well, let's take a look at it. How much did we sell the bond for? Well, we sell the bond. Let me get the calculator here. First, let's start with the cash. So 800,000 times 0.975, and that's gonna give us 780,000. That's for the bond itself. So let's see. So let me write this down. Let me actually, I'm gonna keep the calculator up and write things down to show you how we're gonna get to the cash amount. There we go, okay. So we took 800,000 times 0.975, and we got, let me do it again, times 975, we got 780,000. That's for the bond itself. That's for the bond itself. Now, what does that mean? If this is the bond, this is the bond itself, it means we have a discount equal to 20,000. The discount is equal to 20,000, because what is the discount? The discount is the difference between the face value and how much cash we received for the bond. In addition to the bond, we received, notice in the problem, it says you received accrued interest. Now you have to be careful. The problem might say the 0.975 include the interest or it doesn't include the interest. Usually it does not include the interest. So you have to compute the interest separately. Now how do we compute the interest? Well, we're gonna compute the interest only for two months because we're gonna be assuming that the company was accruing the interest on this bond as time goes by because it was dated December 1st. So let me use a different color. So we're gonna accrue interest for, from this is June, June 1st, we're gonna accrue the interest for all of June and all of July. In other words, we're gonna have 800,000 times, 6% times two divided by 12. So let's do it here. So two divided by 12 times, let me reset here. Two divided by 12 times 0.06 times 800,000. And that's an additional 8,000 of accrued interest. So we're gonna be receiving the price of the bond, 780 plus 8,000 of accrued interest. Therefore cash is 788,000. Remember of this amount, 780 is the bond itself and 8,000 is the accrued interest since June, so June and July. Now the bond will always be credited for the face value 800,000. We're gonna record the discount, which is 20,000. The difference between 780 and the face value 800,000. And we have to have interest expense credit of 8,000. Now whether you do interest expense or interest payable, that's fine, but usually you credit interest expense. Credit interest expense, why? Because we are basically holding the bond. We are basically holding the bond. So really we're not gonna charge ourselves. Therefore we credit interest expense. So this is the entry that takes place on August 1st. Now from August 1st till December 1st, remember from August 1st till December 1st, we're gonna make the first interest payment. Remember the bond pays interest on December 1st. This is when it pays interest, okay? So what's gonna happen is this, we're gonna have six month, not six month, yeah, six month worth of interest in terms of cash payment. So let's start with the cash amount. Well first, the cash amount. The cash amount is 800,000 because this is the easy part times 6%. And that's equal to 24,000. This is the cash amount. Now remember this bond is a discount bond. So now we're gonna have to amortize some of the discount and record the interest expense. We know the cash is 24,000 and we know that the interest expense, it's gonna be more than the cash. Why? Because this bond is a discount bond and what are we going to do? We're gonna take this discount and amortize it over the life of the bond and we're gonna add portion of that amortization to the cash that we paid. Let me explain, okay? First, we're using the straight line method. This is a nine year bond, nine times 12. The total number of month is 108. Now, remember we did not issue this bond until eight month later. So we don't start the amortization until we actually issue the bond. So think about it, from December 1st, year zero till August 1st, year one, eight month is went by. So we're gonna take 108 minus eight. So we're gonna be amortizing the bond over 100 month. Why? Because we don't start the amortization until we issue the bond. Therefore, we're gonna take 20,000 divided by 100 month. In other words, we're gonna amortize $200 per month. $200 per month over the life of this bond. Now, we're gonna amortize August, all of August, September, October and November and all of November because we pay on December 1st. So we're gonna amortize over four month. Therefore, we're gonna amortize $800. Therefore, the interest expense, so the discount amortize is 800. Therefore, the interest expense is the cash plus the cash plus the discount, the interest expense is 24,800. So this is how we amortize, this is how much we amortize of the bond. Now, they also ask us to prepare the entry on December 1st, December 1st, which is the end of the year. Well, from December 1st till December 31st, we only have to deal with one month. What does that mean? It means we have to, everything that we did here, we have to do everything that we did in this entry here, we have to do for one month. What does that mean? It means if we're gonna take 800,000 times 6% times 112. So let's do that. So this is the amount of the supposedly the cash, but we're not gonna be paying cash. So let's start with the fraction. So we're gonna take one divided by 12 times 0.06 times 800,000. So that's gonna be $4,000 and that's going to be the interest payable because we're not paying the money. We're not paying the money, okay? Otherwise that would have been the cash amount, but we're not paying the money. So interest payable is 4,000. Now the same thing, we have to amortize the discount for one month and we already know for one month equal to $200. We just did it earlier. Then bond interest expense is the total of those two, which is 4,200 is the bond interest expense. And this is the amount that we accrue on December 31st. So what does this entry represent? It represent the accrual for one month worth of interest. What does December 1st represent? December 1st represent the payment of six month worth of interest, which involved the full payment of 24,000. So this is basically those are the three journal entries that you need to be familiar with and you need to be comfortable with these journal entries as you go through the exam day. Why? Because bond is a major topic on the exam. So if you're not comfortable with this topic and you get to the exam, what's gonna happen is the AICPA software, I can assure you, they will know that you are not comfortable with this major topic. And if you're not comfortable with this topic and maybe another major topic, you'll be heading toward a score below 75%, which is not good. At the end of this recording, once again, I'm gonna invite you to take a look at my website, farhatlectures.com, where I have resources for your CPA review course. Again, I don't replace your CPA review course. I provide to you alternative resources, explanation, exercises that's gonna help you understand and strengthen your ability to pass the exam. Study hard for the exam, it's worth it. Studying for the CPA exam is worth it. You do this once in your lifetime. Don't shortchange yourself. Good luck, study hard and of course, stay safe.