Members business debate. On motion No 634au Notes. Ayvon McKey wrth ei ragio oeid име i ni, orn oath subsequently, i transfers on the Scottish baby box? Will any questions that will be skirted be put with members? We wish to speak in the debate. Thank you. As soon as possible, I have indicated and intended such eatings to the members who yn ganddiad dyna oedd mae'n ddim yn gyntafol enwedig a'r cael ei gwleidio ei hunain beatyn cyflei yn ddegas nhw. Gael cyddiadau cyflymu'n gyflodol niw, gweld llythyn drws, fan hyn yn gwneud hynny yn cartas cyflymu'n gwneud hynny cyflodol niw, cyflodol fluffy, synsoedd yr wych cyhoedd yn gyrfaith, cyfe大家都 yn bwynt ein, cyflodol yn cellsu argynno ac gwybod.  Rydw i'n rhaid i ti'r bywty. Mae hyn bod y bach jar Rhyw bach ar gyfer, ond mae gennych geniousweithau cyfnod amgylch, ond rhai chygobiadiau ddwych, rhaid o gyfo-beif Thomas Cysgwyr, ac rhaid o bach rhaid o原lluniai i'r cyffredin tarloau? Mae nhw'n gwylltaeth honi, ac rhaid o gwylltaeth gyda gwylltaeth Byddai'r cyflau嘴wys yw'r berth sydd wedi eu ta deplodau, ac yw'r cost ddaw dweud £200-300, ac yn ddechrau i £750 perdysponiad yn symud i fynd yn credu. Felly, o ffarrifon i Cymbylch Gwmbaith Sgwr, fyddai'r gyffinir iawn yn unig. Llyfrgell yn ei ddylnod gan gynghre yng nghylch i'r cyfrifedig iawn. Mae nifer o gyfer cyllidau ar gyfer cyflienol llinig o'r newydd o pobl ei sefyllfaeth i ei ddechrau ar gael, a mor ddod yn gynhyrch ar gyfer gyfledig. nape libraries to engineer a shift towards widespread use of reusable. The environmental issues are stark. Every year Scotland sends 3.3 million tonnes of waste to landfill, costing local authorities and ultimately tax per several million pounds. Any steps that we can take to reduce those costs and the significant impact that landfill has on our planet is to be welcomed. Disposable nape is comprised of 79,000 tonnes—2.5 per cent—of this landfill waste. Disposable nape stick at least 200 years to degrading the soil, and the environmental agency estimates that disposable nape is used over a baby's first two and a half years of life to produce 630 kilograms of greenhouse gas. The typically comprised of materials designed to soak up moisture adding to the waste are wrapped in plastic bags, slowing it down in the degrading process and compounding the impact on the environment. The environmental benefits of reusable nape are clear. Secondly, we are all familiar with the phenomenon of poverty trap pricing, where things cost more for those with the least. A significant driver of the persistence of inequality in our society, any steps that we can take to reduce that will go a long way to securing our policy objectives of reducing inequality. The cost of a full set of reusable nape can be as much as £300, depending on the choice of solution and product chosen by the family. For hard-pressed families, faced with the many often unexpected costs a newborn can bring, this is a lot of money that is required up front. As I said earlier, the cost of providing disposable nappies over a life cycle of our baby's usage is estimated at around £750, but in practice, that favours the purchase of disposable nappies as a family only needs to find five pounds or so at a time to get through the next few days. If implemented correctly, however, the nappy solution in the Scottish baby box has the potential to remove this poverty trap from young families. Thirdly, creating manufacturing opportunities and supporting local small businesses is at the heart of our economic growth strategy for Scotland. Encouraging and rewarding innovation is a key part of that agenda. Shortly before I was elected, I was approached by a local business who, in true entrepreneurial fashion, identified an opportunity to innovate and create more jobs. The business that is locally owned and managed in my constituency manufactures reusable nappies in a factory that has grown over the years to employ 60 mainly female staff in a deprived area of Glasgow. Now winners of multiple awards enjoy some success in exporting a key feature of our Scottish growth strategy, having supplied nappies to the finished baby box. They were excited here of the SNP Government's commitments to implement a Scottish baby box if re-elected and are ready to expand their operations to meet the demand if selected. Finally, this Government has made reducing inequality a priority for this Parliament and ensuring that each child is able to receive a baby box when they are born as a tangible expression of that aim and will play a central part in achieving that ambition. The baby box, similar to a long-standing and successful model in Finland, would reduce inequality by ensuring that children have the best possible start in life all over Scotland. The scheme in Finland has contributed to a full and infert mortality rates from 10 per cent to 0.2 per cent, one of the lowest in the world, showing how successful that innovation can be. It is great to see the Scottish Government looking beyond our borders for ideas that can work in Scotland. The finished model, despite its great success, is however open to improvement and would benefit from some homegrown Scottish innovation. The finished baby box provides a single reusable nappie, while useful in introducing the young family to the concept of reusable nappies. When it is in the wash, they are still required to make use of significant numbers of traditional disposable nappies or to purchase their own set of re-usables. However, a design solution has been developed locally, whereby for the same price as a single reusable nappie in the finished box, a set of one-outer cover, together with six or eight washable inserts, can be provided, getting the family started off habitually using reusable nappies. Courage to the Scottish Government to engage with the manufacturers has developed a solution to ensure that the Scottish baby box provides a solution that exceeds that of the finished baby box in enabling young families to make a rule in decisive rather than a token move away from the use of disposable nappies. Progress is a mixture of steps and leaps, contains improvements that build on each other to nudges in the right direction, and leaps have the potential to move us forward almost overnight, changing cultural norms and resolving at one stroke problems and challenges that otherwise could take years of incremental progress to deliver. Every once in a while, we are presented with an opportunity to drive a significant societal change. Today, we are fortunate enough to be presented with two such opportunities. The baby box itself, providing the opportunity to, as the finished example shows, deliver significant tangible benefits to young families and also the opportunity to drive an overnight change and what becomes a norm for the use of nappies in this country. I urge the Scottish Government to engage with innovators and to enable the step change that we wish to see in making progress on so many fronts with one simple policy decision. Let's make the Scottish baby box on already outstanding innovation in its own right even better. Thank you very much. I move to the open debate. Speeches of four minute please. Mary Todd, followed by Miles Briggs. As a mum of three who has used washable nappies myself and an anti-natal teacher who has encouraged many other parents to try them, I really appreciate the opportunity to take part in the debate. Let me begin with the baby box. It is a fantastic idea. It says loudly and clearly that here in Scotland we believe that every baby should have a good start in life. It says that we value our children and it ensures that all parents in Scotland, regardless of income or wealth, can provide their baby with the essentials. Including reusable nappies in the baby box is a really great idea and it would say that we value our environment in Scotland too. I mentioned already that I used them myself but I have to admit that it took me a while to try them. I felt unsure about the outlay. What if they turned out to be more hassle than they were worth? Once you try them, it's much easier than you might imagine. As Ivan said, modern washables are really easy to use, they're easy to wash, they're easy to dry and I have to say that they're also very easy to put on the baby. There's no safety pin involved. They're kind to the baby's skin, they come in a range of colours and patterns so they look pretty cute too, most people like them. There is a big upfront cost but they save you money in the longer term. Despite the washing costs and the wear and tear in your machine, the actual amount that families could save could range from several hundred pounds up to about £1,000. By including reusable nappies in the baby box, we could potentially bring down the cost of being a parent, leaving families with more money in their pocket. That alone would make it worthwhile but the environmental benefits are great too.  Everyone is agreed that disposable nappies take centuries to biodegrade. Here I have a little disagreement with Ivan, I think that they take 500 years. However, let's say that with figures between 200 years and 500 years banded about, that means that if we had been using disposable nappies when Scotland was an independent country before the union was even conceived of, they'd still be biodegrading around us now. Most babies go through over 4,000 nappie changes before they are potty trained. In the UK, 8 million nappies are changed every day. Disposable nappies make up 2 to 4 per cent of landfill. Clearly, that is not sustainable in the long term. Scotland is committed to becoming an environmentally sustainable country. By including reusable nappies in the baby boxes, we are offering parents and families all over Scotland a win-win option. We give them an opportunity to save money and an opportunity to help Scotland to become an environmentally sustainable country. I have a new way of looking at history and how long it takes for nappie to biodegrade. I now call Miles Briggs to follow by Gail Ross. Thank you, Deputy Presiding Officer. I, too, would like to congratulate in McKee on securing this debate this evening and also in bringing forward this, I think, his first member's debate to Parliament. I'm sympathetic to the sentiments expressed by Ivan McKee and other members who have legitimate concerns about the number of disposable nappies each year being sent to landfill and the very real impact of this on our environment. I'm aware of the various estimates about the percentage of domestic waste made up of used disposable nappies. With some suggestions, as Mary Todd has said, that this can be as much as 10 per cent of black bin bag waste. It's clearly a significant issue and one that is impacting on Scotland's meeting our recycling targets. It will take time and effort to persuade parents and parents to look at alternatives to disposable nappies, but it is entirely right of Ivan McKee and others to highlight that modern viable alternative to disposable nappies that exist and are washable, including those with integral nappy linings. I'd also like to commend the success of Todd's Bots in Ivan McKee's constituency. As well as promoting the positives of reusable nappies, I'm aware of some of the good work that's been trialled around the recycling of disposable nappies and other absorbent hygiene products. I'd be interested to hear when the minister's summing up any updates on this and whether previous pilots are likely to be taken forward. With regard to the baby box policy, Scottish Conservatives still remain skeptical about the evidence-based for this universal policy and would question whether or not the expenditure should be focused more on already-pressed resources for parents who are most vulnerable or on the lowest income groups. However, given that the Scottish Government has expressed its determination to take forward this policy, we'd be interested to learn about what potential advice will be included for parents in the box, specifically around how we address baby and toddler dental ill health. In a recent parliamentary written answer that I received, I was informed that around 4,000 children under 5 in Scotland are having teeth extracted every year due to decay, and that figure remains stubbornly high at this level for more than a decade now. That is clearly an unacceptable situation, and I hope and believe that the information that could be included in the baby box could actually be arranged dental health and should be included, encouraging parents to register their newborn child with a dentist as soon as possible, as well as brushing their baby's first teeth with a fluoride toothpaste as soon as milk teeth break through. I've asked a number of parliamentary written questions on the proposed context of the baby box and haven't received any answer to date, but what I would like to see is in summing up how this is going to be developed and the broad aspects of what will be included. An Edinburgh constituent of mine, who is an English teacher, contacted me recently regarding her positive suggestion that the box should contain a good quality baby book. She suggested to me that this would make a statement about our country's belief in literacy and show parents that it's never too early to talk to and read to their baby, and I wonder if ministers will actively consider that idea. To conclude, I welcome the debate around how we can reduce the impact of disposable nappies on our environment and how progress can be made to reduce their use. I also urge the Scottish Government to make sure that the baby box contains practical and clear advice on how parents can make sure that their babies have the healthiest possible start to life. Thank you very much, Mr Riggsgeal. Ross, we follow by Claire Baker. Thank you, Presiding Officer. I'm also delighted that Ivan McKee has brought this debate before us today. Like Marie, as a user of reusable nappies with my son, I understand both the benefits and the challenges of using them. I was first introduced to reusable nappies in the maternity ward at Caithness General Hospital. The midwives are excellent, they are patient and kind, and they explained everything that I needed to know. I then contacted the Highland real nappie project to ask for more information. They travel around the region meeting pregnant ladies and new mums to answer any questions about using cloth nappies and give out a starter kit, which includes a nappie pail, a couple of different types of nappies, waterproof covers and liners. As Ivan mentioned, real nappies have come a long way since the teretailing squares and big pins of the past. No more does a new mother have to struggle with a squirming bairn correctly folding the nappie and worrying where the pin is going to end up. The nappies are nappie-shaped, have velcro or popper fastenings and removable inserts that are either washable or biodegradable. You do have to be prepared for a lot of washing, but it is small consideration given the benefits of using real nappies. My son had zero nappie rash in the two years that we used them. They are much more cost-effective in the long term and the initial outlay does not have to be that much either, as there are a lot of second hand bundles for sale on the internet. They are better for the environment, as has been mentioned in greatly reduced landfill, and my old neighbour was delighted to regularly see a line full of nappies drying on a nice day. Offering new parents a baby box shows the commitment that the Scottish Government has to early years and preventative spend. We all know that giving our children the best start in life prevents future social difficulties and saves Governments millions of pounds in later interventions, such as in health and justice. Nobel prize winner James Heckman states that early interventions have much higher returns than other later interventions, such as reduced pupil-teacher ratios, public job training, convict rehabilitation programmes, tuition subsidy or expenditure on police. Finland's baby box has been providing support for mothers and babies for over 75 years, and in that time, as Ivan McKee has mentioned, infant mortality rates have dropped considerably, and the social benefits are almost immeasurable. Here is a little taster of what they provide, and maybe what we could think about providing. Mattresses, undersheets, duvet covers, snowsuits in Scotland, hats, mittens, booties, knitted overalls, socks and mittens, body suits, romper suits, all-in unisex colours and patterns, towels, hair brushes, baby thermometers, nappy cloths, toothbrushes, muslin squares, picture books, reading books, a teathing toy, brapads and condoms. In 2006, real nappies were reintroduced to the Finnish baby box, but the baby bottle was left out to encourage breastfeeding. Can I just make the point that even breastfeeding mothers sometimes do things that don't involve their little ones? When I was breastfeeding my son, I attended three weddings throughout that summer, and I wouldn't have been able to do so if I hadn't expressed milk and kept it in reserve for such occasions. Therefore, use of a bottle for the babysitter was essential, but can I also suggest that things like a breast pump, little freezer bags for milk and sore nipple cream be included as well? I've recently learned that the baby box has already been distributed in one instance in Scotland. Thanks to the kind-hearted nurses in the theatre department recovery room in Dumfries and Galloway royal infirmary, one of the nurses received her very own baby box as a gift when she went on maternity leave. The excitement that it caused brought the mother-to-be friends and staff members together, and it's proof that the baby box not only provides much-needed material goods but promotes wellbeing, social contact and should be welcomed by all sides of this chamber, including the inclusion of renewable nappies. Thank you very much. I call Claire Baker to be followed by Alison Harris. Thank you, Presiding Officer. I'm pleased to speak in this evening's debate, and I congratulate Ivan McKee on securing the debate. When the statistics for disposable nappies are presented, it can make you wish that they had never been invented. With the average baby getting through 5,000 nappies, that results in some 400 tonnes of waste every year going to landfill, which is 2 to 3 per cent of all household waste, and a huge cost to our local authorities. As well as that, they present challenges to household waste collections as councils move to smaller bins and less frequent collections, and it's a typical complaint from constituents. The manufacturing process for disposable nappies uses large volumes of pulp, paper, plastic and other raw materials, as well as a significant amount of water and energy. Most disposable nappies are not very biodegradable, with many reports suggesting that they make up to 30 per cent of non-biodegradable waste, and that a nappie that is thrown away today won't decompose until the 21st century. There are also concerns over contamination in landfill, and those issues are not set to decrease as many of the companies are looking to expand into new international markets where there is not a tradition of using disposable nappies. However, many parents would not wish that they hadn't been invented. They have become a part of modern parenting, and as the demands of parenting become a reality, disposable nappies become one less thing to worry about, so to change the situation in a significant way is a challenge. I did choose to use real nappies for my daughter, and I was probably a typical example of someone who does, and I suspect that this chamber has a higher than average percentage than your usual workplace for people who use the nappies. I was environmentally aware, I had a good income, and I was a more mature parent. I did the research. For some people, it is not a clear-cut issue. There are arguments that the production, the washing and the drying of real nappies take you to the same place as disposables, and that the costs are the same, but the initial outlay is much more difficult at a time when money is tight. There are also arguments that the energy costs of production of disposables are then balanced by the energy costs of washing and drying real nappies, which can be too expensive for some families. However, on balance, I accepted the argument that real nappies were the more environmental and responsible decision, and it is the one that I was fortunate enough to be able to make. Real nappies could be an option on a lower income, and you do save money with every subsequent baby. Almost every new parent receives lots of baby clothes—more clothes than the baby can possibly wear. Requesting a real nappie rather than an outfit might be an option, but that still needs organisation and commitment to the idea. It is important to have support and advice. Thankfully, given the subject of the debate, I used top-bot nappies, but I was grateful for the advice from the online nappy lady. I also had friends who were using real nappies, and I lived in Edinburgh at the time, and I had shops that had a selection and gave advice. If parents are going to make the decision, advice and support on products is important. That is one of the reasons why I have some reservations about the proposal for including a real nappie in the baby box. I am not sure that the decision to use real nappies is one that you take when the baby is born. For me, it was one that had to be planned for, and I had to have a commitment to it. I would have concerns that a real nappie in the box might be unused or at worse end up in landfill, but I would have been interested and open to the suggestions that have been made. The baby box has an interesting history. It was introduced in Finland in 1938 for low-income families before being rolled out to everybody in 1949. In the 1930s, Finland had a high infant mortality rate. Legislation was introduced to bring the box that mothers had to visit a doctor or a municipal prenatal clinic before the fourth month of pregnancy, steering them into the emerging welfare system and national health service, thus raising the health outcomes for babies and families. Scotland has a very different starting place today, so we should think about what the baby box is trying to achieve. An increase in the use of real nappies would need a cultural change and maybe a voucher in the box with contact details of a local network would be a sensible way forward. In my own area, the Fife real nappie network, run by volunteers, provides advice and support for parents. I am very supportive of the use of real nappies and support parents to make that decision. I agree that there is potential for the baby box to play a role in this that should be considered and encourage more parents to think about making the change. I am delighted to speak in this debate and add my own congratulations to Totspots, an innovative and award-winning company that is proud to advertise the fact that all their products are made in the United Kingdom, indeed, as the mover of the motion points out in the great city of Glasgow. Even a quick look at their website will show how reusable nappies have moved on from the days when my own children were babies, when pin-held, leaking terry-toweling was the option, and a course in nappy origani would have been very helpful. Today, colourful, shaped, easy to fit, reusable nappies offer a fashionable and practical alternative to disposibles. I hesitate to call any nappy cute, but some modern re-usables do come pretty close. As a mother, I appreciate the time constraints, the needs and resources of busy parents, as well as the requirements of individual babies can vary enormously. The pace of life continues to quicken, and the convenience of disposable nappies is something that has a huge benefit to many parents. Because every family has different circumstances, I strongly believe that the choice of nappy is best left to the individual mums and dads. However, I have no issue, and indeed I would encourage, the advantages and disadvantages of both types being properly aired in order that parents can make informed choices. The motion is correct to highlight the environmental issues raised by disposable nappies. An astonishing 8 million disposibles are used in the UK every day. They now comprise 4 per cent of all material sent to landfill, take decades to degrade and yet upwards of 90 per cent of parents still use them. They are the default nappy of choice and figures show that they have an even higher usage amongst lower-income families. Despite the fact that over a typical child's usage of 4,000 to 5,000 nappies, disposibles are typically £500 more expensive than reusable nappies depending on the washing and drying methods used. Of course, the choice for many families may not be one or the other, but a combination of the two types of nappies depending on daily circumstances. I mentioned earlier how reusable nappies are a world away from how they used to be back when I had my children, but I wonder if every new parent or nursery appreciates that fact. Moving on to the proposed Scottish baby box, an idea originating in pre-war Scandinavia, that could well be used to introduce modern reusable nappies to a new generation of parents here in Scotland, particularly those parents whom figures show are the most resistant to abandoning disposibles. I believe that a case can be made to make best use of the available resources by especially targeting those groups who would benefit the most. At a reported cost of £100 per box, some savings could be made by targeting those groups. Some of the savings made by targeting those groups could be used to address reported concerns over how stable the baby boxes may be for the baby to sleep in and to improve the provision of health and nutritional information, particularly in those areas that have low rates of breastfeeding as well as low usage of reusable nappies. Those are suggestions that I hope can be looked at, but are no way meant to detract from the laudable aims of this motion, a motion presiding officer that I am very happy to support this afternoon. Baby boxes have multiple opportunities to engender a behavioural shift in so many areas that will benefit a whole range of desirable outcomes. The contents of the box are a huge responsibility. Space in the box is finite, as I am often reminded of when I spoke to the Minister of Theatre and other suggestions on what can be included in its contents. The box is not the size of a box that a washing machine goes in or it is not a baby wardrobe, it is a baby box. In short, what we put in that box has to count. It has to earn its place there, and the proposal that reusable nappies take up some of that precious space hits a number of targets. The most compelling one for me is the cost issue for families, particularly when so many new families are struggling to meet ends. You take the cost of using disposable nappies over a two-and-a-half-year period. My figure that I got to today was £800. You compare that with the cost of reusable nappies. If a family were to invest in a starter pack of around 20 nappies, the cost would put them in the family washing. We are looking around about £205 a year, and that is a significant saving. You can use the nappies, as Claire Baker mentioned, for successive babies. It is a one-time outlay, regardless of how many children you have. I am going to fess up here. I did not use them because I could not afford that outlay when I had my son. The fact of putting them in the box is going to be a significant change in that issue. For the vast majority of parents, the issue around nappies comes down to how much money and how much hassle. I have talked about the money side, but when you are tired as new parents absolutely are all the time. The hassle question is just as important. I have spoken to a good few parents over the years who have used reusable nappies, and they are brutally honest. Yes, it is easier to chuck a nappie in the bin to the next one from the pack, but, like anything worth doing, patients pay off and their routine is fallen into with reusable nappies. Reusables require a bit of a mindset change, but once you start, as has been mentioned by Mary Todd, you get used to them, and they are just as convenient as disposables. The resistance to them is often inherited. Stories of pans boiling, telly-telling nappies—Allison has just mentioned that, and the Allison has just mentioned that—are off-putting. I was trying to be gentle about this, if you could give the members full name for the official report. The official report cannot just say Allison. I know that that is why I said that Allison had it straight afterwards. By including reusable samples in a baby box, we are offering the chance to shift public habit and opinion, even if the use of disposables and reusable is a combination that has been mentioned. If we look to other nations that have provided reusable nappie samples at New Zealand, you will see that the take-up of so-called real nappies is 95 per cent, which maybe will answer some of Clare Baker's concerns. If we look at what is in the box in Finland, it leads me on to that I am going to shoehorn some other item that I would like in my wish list that is going to not take up too much space, I hope. The baby box is also an opportunity to protect our new mum's health, so I cannot really sit down without mentioning what I think is very much an important issue here for public health, and that is access to new mum's maternity pads. I think that they should get their place in the box, too. For all new mothers, changing maternity pads frequently in the days after childbirth is really important, 70 to 80 per cent of new mum's get tears in their perineum during childbirth, and the resulting stitches must be kept clean in order to prevent infection. Sepsis is a very real danger and is a leading cause of maternal death in the UK, and wound infection is responsible for around 15 per cent of sepsis cases. Sepsis, of course, is an extreme outcome, but lack of healing due to infection can also present a range of health issues for the new mum that can lead to them feeling generally unwell at an already vulnerable time at a key point in newborn's life. Again, it is also a poverty issue. If a mum is struggling financially, she will go without personal items and use what means she has to provide essential for babies and might not be looking after herself. I am sorry that I am running over time, but I hope that my point is well made. You have indeed made very good points. Mr Ruskell, you are the last speaker, and I move to the minister. Thank you, Presiding Officer. Can I also welcome this debate tonight and congratulate Ivan McKee for securing it? I think that it is a timely debate because, of course, we have a Scottish Government strategy on the circular economy. We have got this early intervention policy of the baby box as well, which is incredibly welcome. I think that real nappies can make a valuable contribution to the success of both of those policies. In the early noughties, we saw a real growth in real nappy networks, providing support and advice to families. I was involved with the launch of the Perture 1, and I think that it has been very successful. On the back of that, we have seen a number of social enterprises as well. Social enterprises providing laundry and collection facilities for parents, but also then working to other areas. Re-use, recycling of toys, of children's furniture, of clothing, of books, of saving parents money and diverting waste from landfill. I pay tribute to a number of organisations, social enterprise in Scotland that are going today, such as Merrigo Round in Glasgow, Kinderhandle, Everything Baby in Inverness, and also Good Green Fun in Sterling, who have literally had trailer loads of stuff coming from the Ruskell family loft over the years, only for trailer loads of stuff to come back in again. We used real nappies successfully ourselves with our two sons. My eldest son did develop a skin condition temporarily. We went back to using disposables, but what I noticed at that point was the big impact on our bin, because when we were using the real nappies, our bin was half full on collection day. When we went back to using disposables, it was overflowing again, and it's just dramatic to see the difference. I think that, as Claire Baker said, that's a real issue today because councils are making significant increases in recycling, but we're also seeing a reduction in landfill and a reduction in the cycles of collection and the sizes of the bins as well. That pressure, that space for landfill, is rightly getting smaller and smaller. One solution that's been proposed is to recycle nappies. There was a pilot that was run in Sterling several years ago. It involved a collection system. Plastic can be recovered. It can be produced amazingly into garden furniture, amongst other items. It's probably a better option than landfill, but I don't see it as an effective waste minimisation measure. I don't think it's the best environmental option either. I know that with the pilot that ran in Sterling, the nappies were getting shipped down to the Midlands and England, so clearly an environmental impact there. I think that the promotion of real nappies has slipped over the last couple of years. I hear that Gail Ross has very positive experience in the Highlands, but I think there are issues with nurseries and the NHS providing very patchy support for the roll-outs of real nappies, which I think is a shame because the technology is improving. I think real nappies are on the market now compared to 10 years ago, a less bulky, better at moisture retention, easier to wash. Of course, the baby box is a fantastic idea and it's perhaps a key point where we can influence behaviour change as well. Whenever our life circumstances change, there's an opportunity to influence behaviour change. Many members have spoken tonight about the impact in Finland, how the baby box is there, slash mortality rates. What's also interesting about the Finnish example is that Finnish parents are now offered a cash equivalent. They can take, I think, 140 euros in cash, all the baby box, but you still get 95 per cent of parents going for the baby box. That underlines that strong culture in Finland of social welfare. Parents receive goodie bags from new parents from the National Childbirth Trust and the NHS, but it makes sense to include real nappies within the baby box and offer this programme of support and encouragement for new parents. I'm very interested to hear the minister's response not just about real nappies in the baby box but also about the wider social economy of which this is part of, how we can support organisations to reuse and repair toys and critically to save hard push parents' money as well. Thank you very much. I call on Mark McDonald to respond. You have seven minutes and perhaps you'll tell us whether we require a bigger baby box, given all the suggestions made tonight. Thank you very much, Presiding Officer. I thank Ivan McKee for taking this important issue to the chamber today. Given the number of speakers who have taken part, the importance and significance of the baby box and its contents has been highlighted as part of that. The First Minister announced the plan for the baby box in her priorities for government speech to Parliament on 25 May. As members have highlighted, it builds on the example of the finished model. We estimate that that will cost around £6 million per year to deliver. We are looking for the box to be a celebration of childhood, a much-valued gift from the Government, recognising the importance of the task of parenting. In addition, there will be a strong focus on maternal and infant health, and, given the universal offer, a robust statement of equality for all of our citizens from birth. It would be an idea to go through some of the issues that have been raised by the speakers in today's debate. I probably cannot cover everything that has been said, because we would be here for quite some time, Presiding Officer. I know how strict you are in terms of the timing of debates, but I will do my best to cover some of the main issues that have been raised. I give a commitment that, if members feel that there are issues that I maybe have not had the chance to respond to, if they write to me about those, I will be more than happy to provide a more fulsome response in due course. I think that Ivan McKee set out the— Minister, I have been advised that I can give you another two minutes if you wish to— We will see how we get on, Presiding Officer, shall we? Ivan McKee set the tone for the debate and highlighted quite correctly the issues that real nappies can address in terms of the issues around the environment, the issues around support for small and medium-sized businesses. He also mentioned the issue around the poverty trap. I think that there were a number of important speeches in relation to that, comparing the upfront cost of reusable nappies versus the perhaps higher cost in the longer term of disposables, but the fact that those are not paid for all-in-one go-up front. I think that Clare Baker made a couple of important points in relation to that in the sense that the cost of reusable nappies should not just be measured in terms of the cost that you pay for the nappies themselves. There are obviously the associated energy costs that will come with the washing and potentially drying of those nappies. Obviously, in many of the households that we are looking to support in helping to lift them out of poverty, fuel poverty is a very real consideration and something that we have to bear in mind to. However, I think that the point that Ivan McKee made about that was well made, that sometimes the upfront cost masks the lifetime cost by comparison. Miles Briggs made a number of asks, some of which he will be aware and members will be aware. I cannot commit to everything that is going to be in the baby box. What I can say is that the points that members have raised will be fed into the considerations that we as a Government are taking. In terms of his point about dental decay, we have a very good child smile programme and we will give active consideration to how best we can support parents in order to ensure that they are playing an active role in terms of the oral health of their children. I think that one of the things that I want to be very careful about in relation to the baby box is that we do not just have it as a box that is full of pamphlets and leaflets offering advice and support to parents through those methods, because often those are the kind of things that parents will maybe pick up and put down rather than actively supporting parents to perhaps take a different approach to the one that might otherwise be the case. While I hear what Miles Briggs has said about putting in information pamphlets and leaflets, I would say that we will certainly consider that, but I would have a concern if we ended up with a box that was essentially stuffed full of leaflets rather than perhaps items of practical use such as those that are provided within the finished baby box. Marie Todd brought to us the figure of 8 million nappies being changed every day and with most of those being disposable, that is an awful lot of nappies potentially going to landfill. The point was made by a number of members around the Zero Waste Scotland looking at the potential for recycling of disposable nappies. I hear the points that Mr Ruskell makes, but, in reality, we are going to be in a situation where, even if we were to get significantly increased the uptake on real nappies, there will still be parents out there who have to use disposable nappies. I think that it is right and proper that we look at the ways in which we can better deal with disposable nappies and whether there are options around recycling and possibly even I am aware that some companies produce disposable nappies that are claimed on the packet to be biodegradable, whether that bears witness in terms of how they actually perform in those circumstances has yet to be fully ironed out. Alison Harris and a number of other speakers did make the point that, often when we talk about real nappies, it does, for some people, conjure up that image of the huge terry towel and sheets and the safety pins. However, we have moved on, and I, like a number of members in the chamber, used reusable nappies with my son, and I was struck by how easy and simple they were to use—often quite messy, but that is the nature of babies—but, nonetheless, I think that there is a job of work to be done in relation to that. Gil Ross and Gillian Martin brought a number of other items that are worthy of consideration in relation to what might go in the baby box. Obviously, as I have said before, I cannot give a commitment to whether those items will go in, but I think that they have put forward the case appropriately. Mark Ruskell kind of veered off slightly at the end when he talked about other issues that we needed to look at in terms of how do we ensure that, for example, toys can be reused or repurposed. Often, what I find with my children is that, while I might think that a toy is broken, it still provides a lot of fun and enjoyment for children. Sometimes, we need to look at things less through the eyes of the parent and more through the eyes of the child in the sense that, often provided that it is safe, many toys that may seem not to work anymore are still enjoyed and played with by children, and perhaps being a little bit less hasty to throw them out might encourage some of the issues that Mr Ruskell was raising to be addressed. The important thing for us to consider is what is the aim in relation to the baby box, what is the defining purpose that we have established as why we are bringing the baby box forward. It is essentially to give all of our children the best start in life. While I cannot say to members at this precise moment what the contents of the baby box will be, I can commit that we are continuing to explore the options that have been highlighted in the debate this evening and other options that have been written to me by members across the chamber. I would just temper expectations and say that we have obviously got to bear in mind the dimensions of the box and the fact that parents have got to actually be able to get it in the car and get it home, so we have to bear that in mind as well. That will obviously be a factor in terms of what we can include. I also want to make sure that we include a range of items, so it probably would not be possible, for example, if we did take the decision around reusable nappies to put in a significant number, because that would be a space constraint that might mean that we could not include other items. However, I will give active consideration to what has been suggested in the debate tonight. I will be continuing to discuss this with officials. As always, if members want to write to me, I am happy to consider the issues that they raise, but I cannot at this stage give a guarantee in terms of what the contents will be, but all the issues that are being raised this evening are under active consideration. I close this meeting.


Bioactive glasses have been traditionally used to fill bone defects, but have recently emerged as a research field for bone tissue engineering applications, with a focus on porous scaffolds made from milk-derived silicate glass compositions and their microstructural mechanical properties in relation to human bone. This article was authored by Aldo Arbaciccini and Letz Christian Gerhardt.


Once upon a time there was a young woman by the name of Lilo living in the land of carefree But everybody called her red riding hood Because she always wore this red old grungy Weatherbeaten of least Rick and hoodie and she hated it So she wanted to renew herself She wanted to buy green hoodie. She wanted to be someone else and She knew just when she was gonna do she was gonna buy this green hoodie in time For her visit to her badass grandma So she did what all the kids in carefree did She went on the search engine bling and searched for hoodies and she ended up on all fours always website And what do you know there were there were hoodies for late-night raids hoodies for romantic evenings and Hoodies for visiting grandma, and it was just three clicks away. She clicked It's in her basket. She clicked again order. She clicked again. She already had a prey pal account So that was three clicks under order percent but then this white dove came with the confirmation letter and Apparently the shipping and taxes were a bit higher than she had anticipated and The delivery time meant that she wasn't gonna get the green hoodie in time for her visit to grandma So Lilo she's sad. She's disappointed Why how can that be? I mean the usability testing was perfect Site works excellent the conversion rates were increasing by the month But she's sad This is how we tend to look at you X. We get a person from point A to point B We want him to be happy and delighted and pleased and laughing to the point of tears because heaven forbid that somebody would be confused or sad or I don't know Uninterested even the worst want to get rid of all those bad feelings That's UX and this is what so this is escalators and now we're looking for this experience. Oh my god. It's just sliding all the way Is that what UX is all about it's sliding across the ice no friction What happens to our brains when everything is easy it turns into habits Things we do without thinking We switch off our switch switch on our autopilot switch off our brains We conserve energy which is good and this is good for like turning on the light switch in the bathroom at night When you need to pee but I mean for making conscious decisions. It's not really that good. Is it? Putting people's brains on autopilot If you know what Amazon one click to buy is Slap the person next to you Nobody knows so so Amazon one click to buy is is a thing that you can set up for Amazon's in your account so you actually just click one button and It's that's their money's charge from your account and the book is sent and I activated this of course. I love books So I started buying books click click. I heard it about a book at a conference someone told me go buy an email I'm in a chat somebody tells me about a book. I just buy it. It's awesome Except I don't have time to read all those books. Do I? so High cost low value Also, I got a receipt for each and every book Which is really bad for bookkeeping. So that was more work and Administration for me. It's excellent for for return on investment The more people use the reptilian brain, of course That's awesome But is that is that what you went into UX for? For people to not have an experience What's our promise to users or why did we when we do become passionate about UX in the first place? Are you all to think about this? Is it about? Conversion when do we all become conversion optimizers? It's about our promise the users our pledge Taking responsibility Doing UX So what happens when we turn on the autopilot We love to talk about these examples don't we? Forms we reduced the number of form fields and more people sign up In fact, Jerry McGovern has what an often quoted article on his site talking about HSBC mortgage it mortgages and applying for a mortgage and They reduced it from 17 form fields to four form fields and conversion rates were like went off the roof I mean 400 percent or something loan applications and Everybody's quoting this look look at what UX can do for you But nobody's asking Okay, what happened to those people? Were they happy with their loans? Could they have gotten a better deal elsewhere? Are they in more debt now that they couldn't handle? Why aren't we asking those questions? So I worked a lot with health services and one of them is a really popular service called ask us a chitrist And so we thought okay, let's move it to this front page because everybody wants this service and what happened was And got more used of course But the people or the people handling that service three people Couldn't handle the onslaught of what people asking as a chitrist It's there were so many now that the service got worse. So the experience got worse Because now took longer to get an answer. So is that good design? Was that good UX in Sweden? I do my grocery shopping online. We have a great service called Mottem And it's super fast.  There's a cute animation pops into your basket. So what do you do when something's really fast? So I want three items of something. I just click it three times So 99% of the time it's pre-filled with one item Sometimes it's pre-filled with six items because they have this offer And I can't tell you the number of times I've come home with 18 liters of milk because I clicked that button three times. I thought it three liras of milk and I'm not alone. I'm not alone Is that good design? Making something easy is not what it's about. Is it? It's about really caring because we don't really want to become Like the mobile operators in Sweden four of them May the same woman with a cognitive disorder sign up for four different mobile plants That you couldn't afford and then suit her over it. You can't make anything that easy. That's that's it's not fair I met a guy last night who bought a book from Amazon in his sleep Do we want to make it that easy? So the old industry the textile industry the food industry. We got a big bad reputation these days But they didn't start out as evil. They're not evil doers. They started out solving a problem a real problem for real people how Do we approach something when we get into? Designing websites that perhaps look more and more like Serial boxes with a big image free messages Are we already moving in this direction? Do our websites have a website start looking the same I see this sketch all the time all the time So what happens if we instead start adding friction instead of taking it away adding friction in the right places So remember Lilo her goal Green hoodie grandma And what happened? Completely wrong direction. It was really really quick though three clicks perfect great conversion But task completion Which you love to talk about as well task completion is not the same as a goal fulfillment Is it? She missed her goal completely So we need to turn off the autopilot put in these moments when Lilo has to think think about what you're doing now in our case of course little wolves and Old for asking okay, are you sure? Because if you order this this way it's not you're not not gonna get it in time for your goal But if you add on express shipping perhaps you'll do it and it'll hurt But you'll actually reach your goal sometimes People hate me in the sign meetings and and they look at my sketches and they say come on our design guidelines Say that all the headlines Aren't small letters you have this one in capital letters. It's not consistent That doesn't work. You can't do that consistent your user experience that's switching off brains Consistency is not always good consistency Gives you guidance It shows the way. This is what you need to pay attention to right now. I'm one of those designers also who adds loaders When they're not rest necessary Anyone else does that? Even if it could load and in a fraction of a second I make it load in two Because that gives people time to breathe To think about what they're doing instead of just boom boom boom bombing them with information. It really works Okay, so if if you know what? curling is Give me a big smile Everybody knows So curling it's a winter sport obviously on ice and Three three team members one of them throws a curling stone across the ice like that two others Takes a broom start sweeping in front of the curling stone Essentially creating zero friction for the stone to hit its target and in Sweden we have this popular psychology phenomenon we call All people curling parents It's not a good thing You take away friction Children aren't as resilient anymore. They get disappointed. They meet more adversity. They're not prepared for life. I like to propose curling designers Isn't that what's happening? We're making it so easy that users just they I'm okay I'm just gonna click there because that's what you told me to do and it's just three clicks excellent. I'm gonna do it Don't want to pay attention to that. Thanks And what happens people get the sad and disappointed like Lilo we need to feel accomplishment as humans don't we and there's this Phenomenon we all talk about gamification. Isn't it funny how we all talk about awesome. We need a gamification in our website But let's not make it challenging What are you familiar with what gamification means? So I rent rooms by the hour all the time in my coaching practice So I signed up for it with a company called coaching house They rent rooms by the hour and they had these really long forms. You had to sign up with really long forms and I thought I was done. I got confirmation finally I'm gonna be able to rent these rooms and get access to my online account my online booking system And I got this email It says you will find the password by reading the welcome information carefully and Then I did read that welcome information carefully and at the end in this film. It'll get your password And I watched that film and the password was given away one letter per minute While a woman was explaining the code of conduct you could not be adding more friction But it was fantastic because they get people who know how to behave They know what the deal is But don't trust me trust Kevin Spacey. This is what he said You make it hard You create loyal active and serious users because you don't want to catch everyone That's not design You need to think about who you're designing for who can be your serious active loyal users What do you expect from them so you need to decide where your loyalty lies and there's here's a pro tip It's not with a single one of them. It's with all of them Because only then can you create the balance of a win-win situation where the user and business both meet their goals You need to think about the long term. You need to think about why you're doing UX So don't hide What you're really doing Show it add friction Create a conversation Help people make better decisions Make them stop and think and not just glide along the ice If we can add these small wolves, you're gonna make the brain work harder But the chances of people actually reaching their goals is so much higher This is what you're after good brain workouts Because if you really care about users and really care about their goals and You're adding friction and they're all the right places That's when you can say that you're actually creating a better world That's when you can say we can live happily ever after Thank you


Okay, so here we are looking at some examples of sex-linked inheritance.   This is a Y. I'm going to draw you a picture of a gene on the Y chromosome called the S-R-Y gene. Now, this gene actually turns on the Y chromosome, the rest of the Y chromosome genes. So if, I'm going to write that down for you, the S-R-Y gene turns on the Y chromosome. And this happens at, I want to say, six weeks in utero, the S-R-Y gene in the Y chromosome. So six weeks when you're in your mama's belly, fellas, this specific gene on the Y chromosome turns on and begins activating the rest of the genes on the Y chromosome. As they get activated, again, all they're doing is producing proteins. And those proteins have consequences. So as they get activated and they, essentially, cause the testes, the gonads, to descend down into the scrotum. The gonads at six weeks in utero, if there isn't a Y chromosome around, those gonads will stay in the abdominal cavity and will basically be ovaries. So the default is to have ovaries. But if you have a Y chromosome with a functioning S-R-Y gene, you will become male. Now, the reason why I said this doesn't always work this way is because you can have a Y chromosome and be genetically male, X, Y. But if you have a wackadusical S-R-Y gene that isn't working, then your Y chromosome will never get turned on, which means that you will not, your testes, your gonads, will not lower. They'll stay, they'll become ovaries. You'll basically look like a female. In fact, the number of supermodels, super skinny, super tall, very boyish figures, but drop dead gorgeous, especially by our societal standards, those, not always, but there is a higher percentage of supermodels with a messed up S-R-Y gene. They're actually men. They're genetically male, but phenotypically female. And that's because they're missing that S-R-Y gene. How cool is that? If we have a trait that is say carried on the X chromosome, I'm going to show you what we're going to talk about, something like this. So we would have, let's say, colorblindness is a condition carried on the X chromosome. So colorblindness, I'm going to do it like this. We'll make it a B. Big X, okay, hold on a second. This is representing my X chromosome. This is representing the allele, the colorblind allele on the X chromosome. Do you see what I just did here? This is my Y chromosome. Do I have a colorblind allele on the Y chromosome? No, because the colorblind allele is only found on the X chromosome. So there's nothing on my Y chromosome. So let's say I have a woman who is not colorblind. This is her phenotype. What's her genotype? What do you know? We know, first of all, that she's XX and she's female. So what are the possibilities? Well, would you say this is a dominant or a recessive allele for colorblindness? She's not colorblind. So she has to have at least one dominant allele in that colorblindness gene, which means that she'll be able to see color. She could be heterozygous. She could be a carrier of the colorblind allele. Before she could be homozygous dominant and both situations leave her not colorblind at all. If she's a carrier of the condition but she doesn't express it, she's fine. She's not going to be colorblind at all. Now let's look at a fella. A fella, let's look at a male not colorblind. What is his genotype going to be? So his phenotype is not colorblind. If he's not colorblind, he has to have a big B but he also has to have a Y. Do you get that? So now watch what happens. One little B. Just like her, what's his phenotype now? Now he's colorblind. Do you get that? He's colorblind now because he doesn't have a big B allele to cover up, he can't be heterozygous.  What this means is that when we do problems with inheritance of a sex-linked condition, our phenotypic ratios are going to be different than what you would expect if we were just doing straight up Mendelian inheritance. And the reason why they're different is because boys are more likely to express these sex-linked traits. So let's do a sample problem and we'll make sure that you understand what the heck I'm talking about.


Sound off for Chesterfield. Chesterfield is best for you. First cigarette with premium quality in both regular and king size. Chesterfield brings you Dragonet. Ladies and gentlemen, the story you are about to hear is true. The names have been changed to protect the innocent.  A hold-up man has been hitting large supermarkets in your city. He's fast and is experienced. Your job? Get him. Tonight, I have a new report for you. A most important one, too. Because when you're asked to try a cigarette, you want to know and you want to know what that cigarette has meant to people who smoke it all the time. After a full year of observation, a medical specialist was given a group of Chesterfield smokers, thorough examinations every two months for the full year, reports no adverse effects to their nose, throat, or sinuses from smoking Chesterfields. More and more men and women all over the country are finding out every day that Chesterfield is best for them. Enjoy your smoking. Try Chesterfields today. They're best for you. Much milder, with an extraordinarily good taste. The documented drama of an actual crime. For the next 30 minutes in cooperation with the Los Angeles Police Department, you will travel step by step on the side of the law through an actual case transcribed from official police files. From beginning to end, from crime to punishment, Dragnet is the story of your police force in action. It was Monday, July 7th. It was warm in Los Angeles. We were working the day watch out a robbery detail. My partner is Frank Smith, the boss is Captain Diddy, and my name's Friday. We were on the way out from the office and it was 10.22 a.m. when we got to the corner of 67th Street in Jefferson Boulevard, Vermont Brothers Market. Oh, I guess I should have been scared the way they came in with those guns, but I wasn't. I one came back into the office and said he wanted the money. I gave it to him. I wasn't gonna mess with him. Mr. Haskins? Yes, I'm Haskins. Who are you? Police officer, sir. My name's Friday. This is my partner, Frank Smith. Friday and Smith.  Sir? The other ones, the cops in the car. They said there'd be a couple of detectives here. Have you seen the other cops yet? Yes, sir. We talked to them. They've already put out a call. I wonder if we can get some information from you. Sure. Want to come back here to the office? Yes, sir. Back this way. We can talk there. Just sit down. Mr. Haskins, if you just tell us what happened, please. Well, it's pretty simple. I was sitting here, getting the money ready for the bank. And this guy came in and he said he wanted the money. I had a gun, so I gave it to him. I said, none anymore. He just took the money and left. What time was it, sir? Around 8.30, quarter to nine. How many men were there, sir? Well, there was two. Two is all I saw. I don't think there was any more of them. All right, sir. If you could just tell us exactly what happened. Well, I told you they came in. They took the money. I know, sir. But if you'd go into more detail... Well, I came in about 7.30 this morning, like always. Checked things over the store to make sure that everything was okay. Then I started checking out the weeks for seats. Well, and like I said, it must have been 8.45 or so, and heard this knock on the door. Thought there must be something wrong. The employees know not to bother me when I'm making up the deposit slips. Yes, sir. That's when I knew that something was wrong.  Something isn't good. Yes, sir. Well, it was right. Went over the door and unlocked it. There he was. His big fellas. There was a gun. His eyes lit up when he saw all that money laying on the desk. You got any idea of how much money was taken, sir? Well, it was about 6,000 cash. I guess another 1,500 checks. More or less. Uh-huh. I wonder if you'd give us a description of this man, could you? Well, like I said, he was a big one. Real mountain of a man. Well, over six feet. Had this gun, you know. Uh-huh. He stood there and said, this is a stick-up. I want that money. And he pointed at the money with his gun. Oh, what kind of a gun was it, could you tell? That's a great question. Of course I could tell. He had it right under my nose. Shotgun, saw it off. Had the stock cut down, too. It looked like a horse pistol. What do you handle that thing? I wasn't going to mess with him. Uh-huh. I told him, take the money. Take it and get out.  He did. Walked right over the desk and scooped up the money. He had a paper bag. He put it down to the table. He scooped the money into it. Then he said to me to stay put. Not to try to yell or be brave. Didn't have to tell me that. I wouldn't try anything. He said there was another man, is that right? Yes, I saw him on the left. He lived, fella. About how tall, would you say? Well, it was kind of hard to tell. I didn't get very close to him. What was he armed to? Yeah, he was carrying a revolver. Did he drive a car, would you know? Well, if he did, I didn't see it. You went out after them, then? I should say not. That one fell away. That gun around, I stayed right here. He said to stay put. That's just what I did. What did this big man look like? Oh, a real mountain. He was 6'2 anyway. He must have weighed in at about 2.15. How about his coloring? It was dark. He had black hair. His eyes were dark. Not brown. It was almost black. Real dark. When he spoke, did he have an accent or anything like that? You might have noticed. No? No, I don't think so. At least there was one. I didn't notice it. Did he have any scars or marks? What? Any scars or marks? Anything that might make it easier for us to identify him? Yes. Yes, there was a little scar right here. Right over the bridge of his nose. Close here. How about his clothes? What was he wearing? Had a brown hat on. A brown jacket. Short time. Kind of what you'd call that. Real slick material, you know. Satin, like a bowling team to wear. Yeah, I see. Had a pair of brown pants, brown shoes. How was the other one dressed? I couldn't tell you for sure. Like I said, I only saw him for a minute when I opened the door. He was out there telling the people to just mind their own business. Do that and they wouldn't get hurt. I didn't get a good look at him, but that big one, it was a real mountain. Do you usually have this much money around in the store? No, not usually. See, this was a long weekend. You know, the 4th was Friday and whenever we have a long weekend, we usually have $10,000 or $12,000 in cash here. That's why the guys really goofed. Sir? Really missed the boat, you know. If they'd known what they were doing, they'd have gotten a lot more. Well, how's that, sir? They're safe out in front. Another $7,000 out there. Guys missed it completely. Yes, sir. Yeah, sure hope they don't come back for it. 11.05 a.m., Frank and I checked with the officers in the radio unit that had answered the call. They'd gotten out a broadcast on the bandits and then started the canvas of the neighborhood, but they didn't find anyone who could give them any information. One of the clerks was able to describe the smaller of the two suspects and we got out a local and an APB on them and we took the market manager downtown to look at the mug books. He told us that the larger man had worn gloves all the time he was in the store so there was no need to look for fingerprints. The market bandits had been operating for the past 8 months. In that time, they'd held up 17 stores. Their method of operation was always the same. They'd hit only after a weekend or on the Monday following a holiday weekend. They'd hit only the larger supermarkets of the ranch type. Their operations had taken them all over the Southland. We'd tried to stake the markets that might be hit, but their field of operations had been so wide that it was impossible. 2.15 p.m., the market manager Larry Haskins started on the sixth mug book. Sure, a lot of them. Yes, sir. All these fellas all committed some crime, huh? Yes, sir, that's right. That one there looks like my brother-in-law. He's got a weak chin. Yeah, just like him. No. So a few of these and they all began to look alike. Have you ever noticed that? Yes, sir. Hey, wait a minute. Yes, sir? It's from over here. It's from right here, you see? That's the fella. No doubt about it. That's the one. The market manager had identified Bernard R. Hanson as one of the hold-up men. The other employees of the store were called in and they identified the same picture as being the man who'd held them up. We checked in his record and found that he'd been convicted for armed robbery and had been sentenced to the state penitentiary. He'd also served six and a half years and had been released. We got the last known address of the suspect. Frank and I checked it out and found that Hanson had moved some months before but had left a phone number where he might be contacted. 6.30 p.m., Frank put in the call. Yes, sir. That's right, sir. You're sure about that, are you? I see. Well, if there's anything more you can think of, I'd appreciate a call. That's right, Michigan 5211. Extension 2511. Smith, that's right. Or if I'm not in, I ask for Joe Friday. No, sir, Friday, like the day in the week. That's right. All right, thank you very much, doctor. Goodbye. Anything? Yeah, I talked to Dr. Corby in places to rest home. Hanson's there as a patient. We checked on the rest home. It was a private sanitarium in the valley. We got in touch with the medical authorities and found that the head of the hospital was listed as Dr. James Corby.  From then, we got the story that Hanson had been a resident of the home for the past four months. We found that he had a lung ailment and was confined to his bed 24 hours a day. The doctor showed us his records and charts. What we could tell, it would have been impossible for Hanson to have been abandoned. Three weeks passed. On August 4th, the market thieves hid again this time out in East Los Angeles. They got away with a little over $9,000. The manager of the market came downtown and checked the mug books. They again identified Hanson as the thief. We had the stats office make another run on the MO years. The result came back and out of the thousands of cards checked, only one fitted the way the robbery had been carried out. Hanson's. We called the rest home and found that the suspect hadn't left his bed. Another month passed. During that time, we ran down all leads. Informants were questioned, but they could tell us nothing. Apparently, the holdup men were hitting and then dropping completely out of sight until they hit again. Monday, October 27th, 8.05 a.m. I checked in for work. Joe? Yeah. Did you just get in? Yeah, a couple of minutes ago. Sure is a beautiful day, isn't it? Yeah. Did you see Diddy yet? No. Well, he talked yesterday. I don't want to. He's pretty hack. I can't blame him too much. He sure seemed to have it stopped. The thing I can't understand is that everybody's positive it's Hanson. It doesn't seem to be any doubt in their minds. That doesn't make any sense. Did you get the kick back on the doctor? Yeah, I came in late yesterday. How about it? I can't find anything on him. Family man lives out in the valley, a couple of blocks from the hospital. Checked his bank account. He does pretty well. Not great. No big deposits lately. Did you check the AMA on him? Yeah, he's not a member. I haven't got anything on him. How about the rest of the staff out there? Seems to be okay. Two of the nurses have been there for over two years and the local nurse was hired about five months ago. That'd be just before Hanson got there. What's his record? There isn't any. Nothing on him in the files, nothing from Washington. I don't know. He seemed to come up out of the ground, pull the jobs, and then drop back in. Nothing on the partner? No, I thought I had something. Talked to an informant this morning while I had coffee. He thought at first that he knew who the little guy was, but then he remembered that the fellow he was thinking about died two years ago. A hot shot. I got it. Let's go. I hit again. At 8.01 a.m. that morning, a pair of hold-up men had walked into a market out on Adams Boulevard and robbed the place of a little under $11,000. The manager gave us a description of the hold-up men. One was large, dark, and had a small scar over the bridge of his nose. The other was small, sandy-haired, and had no visible marks or scars. We showed the manager mug shots of Hanson. He positively identified him as the larger of the two men. The local and an APB was gotten out on the pair, and then Frank and I drove out to the hospital to see Hanson. 8.46 a.m. we talked with Dr. Corby.  I know for a fact that he hasn't been out of his bed this morning. Was it possible for him to get out of his room without you knowing it? No. I wonder if we could see him, Dr. No, I don't think that would be possible. He's still asleep, and I can't have him disturbed. You're sure, though, that he couldn't have left the hospital without you knowing it? Absolutely. No chance of it. What time does Hanson generally wake up, Dr. Depends. Usually, though, I'd say he's awake by 9.30 or so. I wonder if we could wait and talk to him. If you like, I'll tell one of the nurses to call you when he's awake. All right, sir, that'd be fine. One thing, though, I must insist on... What's that, Doctor? He mustn't be excited. I don't think you gentlemen really know how ill Mr. Hanson is.  Yes, sir. We understand. We're just trying to get this thing straightened out as soon as we can. Fine. I'll go along with you part of the way, but I'll not have my patient disturbed, and the excitement would be very bad for him. Well, don't worry, Doctor. It will be as brief as possible. Fine. If you'll excuse me now, I've got some things to do.  And remember, no excitement. What do you figure, Joe? It's got me. The way he talks, every one of those witnesses are wrong. Yeah, it's happened before. Get a positive identification and end up with the wrong guy. Yeah, but all of them are so positive images that make any sense. Yeah.  Yeah, that's right. Why? Bob Jamison. I work here. Oh, yeah. You're the male nurse then, right? Yeah.  We want to see him, yeah. What can we do for you? It's about Barney. What about him? I don't think things are the way they look. What do you mean by that? I wouldn't want the doctor to know I've been talking to you. You'd raise a roof, probably fire me. What's it about, Jamison? Like I said, it's about Barney. Yeah. When I came here, they told me that Barney was pretty sick, so they didn't expect him to live. One day the buzzer rang in his room. You know he wanted something? Uh-huh. Well, the doctor was on the phone. The other nurses were busy, so I started down the hall to see what Barney wanted. Got to the door of the room, and the doctor stopped me. Uh-huh. He really read me off. Said that I wasn't going to the room at all. That he was taking care of Barney personally. That he'd see what he wanted. Yeah. No, that was just the first time. Same things happened a couple more times. And he told us about you. He told us what to say if you asked any questions. Well, what did he tell you? Said that we wasn't to tell you anything. That we didn't know anything. Well, why didn't you tell us all this before? You see, this isn't a regular hospital. I don't think that he's even a regular doctor. I worked around hospitals for a long time, and I never saw no doctor act like he does. He doesn't even know how to write out a diet, feed some of the people here all the wrong things. Is that right? Yeah, and I'll tell you something else, too. What's that? I don't think there's anything wrong with Barney. I think the whole reason for him being here is full. Bob? Oh, yes, Doctor. What are you doing here? Came to see if these gentlemen needed anything. Oh. Uh-huh. Well, I'll take care of it now. Will you check on Mr. Hardy, please? See if he's awake yet. Yeah, sure. Just a minute. What?  I'm afraid we're going to have to see Mr. Hansen right now, Doctor. I'm afraid that's impossible.  I'm afraid we're going to have to disturb him. It won't take very long. Jampson, where's his room? I'll show you. It's down this way. I'm going to speak to your superiors about this, coming into a hospital and disturbing patients. I'm sure the fact that your officers doesn't give you the right to do this. Now, this is his room. You want to open the door? Well, how about it, Doctor? Well, I don't understand it. He's got to be here.  I'm sure there's some explanation for his disappearance. Yeah, maybe he can explain this too. There's stuff here in his bed. What is it, John? A gun and some money. You are listening to Dragnet, the authentic story of your police force in action. Chesterfield Regular, Chesterfield King Size, the first cigarette to give you premium quality either way you like them. This means that King Size Chesterfield contains tobaccos of better quality and higher price than any other King Size cigarette. Chesterfield is first to name all its ingredients, ingredients that make the best possible smoke. And Chesterfield gives you this full year scientific report. No adverse effects to the nose and throat of a group smoking only Chesterfields. So enjoy your smoking. Change to Chesterfield today. Much milder with an extraordinarily good taste. 9.30 a.m. We called the office and two more teams of men came out to help us search the place. Hanson was not on the grounds of the hospital. In his room we found several floor plan drawings of markets that had been robbed. The drawings showed the location of the manager's office and of the safe. Along with the drawings we found several maps with roads marked on them leading back to the hospital. A stakeout was placed on the rest home in the event that the suspect returned and I drove the doctor back downtown. We talked to him for an hour before he finally told us the story. He said that Hanson had come to him and offered him money to say that he was ill and to give him a room. The doctor went on to say that after he got started he tried to get out of the deal but that Hanson said he'd get his family if the doctor said anything about his activities to the police. Dr. Corby gave us the name of Hanson's accomplice, Marty Peterson. He said that he didn't know where Peterson lived but that he usually came out a couple of times a week to see Hanson. The stakeout to be on the lookout for Peterson and then we booked Dr. Corby at the main jail. We ran the name Marty Peterson through R&I but we got no make. We sent the name to George Brerken up at CII in Sacramento and also to Washington. The kickback gave Peterson a record of two arrests of robbery and one for ADW in the east. It also gave the name of a sister who lived in Los Angeles. We checked with her and she was able to tell us where Peterson lived. Thursday, October 30th, Frank and I drove out to his apartment. The manager. Yeah, what is it? You Marty Peterson. Yeah, what do you want? Police officers. You're under arrest. Oh, come on.  All right, come on.   What's all this about? Want to shake him? Yeah.  He's carrying a gun, Joe. Here. I got it. You guys trying to prove. I didn't do nothing. You guys lean on everybody like this fella's got a record and right away he's fair game for every crummy cop in the country. Yeah, you bet. Joe, you still haven't told me what this is all about. What are you putting the pinch on me for? Robbery.  I'm out here on a vacation. I haven't done anything.  That's a fellow of me. And where's Barney Hansen? Who? Barney Hansen. Where is he? I don't know no Barney Hansen. Don't know what you're talking about. Now let's come off it, Peterson. Now where is he? Barney Hansen? I might know what you're talking about. I know a fellow by that name, but he's out in the hospital in the valley. Haven't seen him for a long time in a hospital out in the valley. Nice try, Peterson. Hansen checked out of the hospital. We got the doctor. He told us all about it. Now where's Hansen? Well, I don't know. Last I heard of him, he's out at that hospital. If he ain't there now, I don't know where he is. All right, let's go downtown. That doctor copped out, huh? Yeah. Told us in on the whole setup. How about the money? Hm? You find the money? No, we didn't find anything. You didn't find any dough at all? Not a bit. The crumb, the lousy crumb. He told me to be safe out there. Let's never shake a hospital. Not a dime, huh? No. Looks like he left you to stand for this. He probably took off with all the money. Probably never see him again. Yeah, we ain't going to get away with it. No sir, he ain't. Looks like he will. Oh, yeah, I'll tell you where he is. We took Marty Hansen down to the city hall and he was booked at the main jail. Before he was booked, he gave us the name and address of Hansen's girlfriend. Frank and I drove over and talked to her. She told us that she hadn't seen the suspect for several weeks. She said that she'd heard that Hansen had been running around with another girl. She also told us that she'd heard Hansen had bought a new car and was running around with a new bunch of friends. She said that she hadn't seen him since he got the new car but that she'd heard it was a new Oldsmobile and it was painted a fire engine red. We called the office and arranged for a stakeout in her apartment and then we began to check out the Oldsmobile dealers in the Los Angeles area. Two teams of men were assigned to help us in running down the list. It took us two days to talk to the dealers in town. Each of the dealers was shown a mugshot of Hansen. Two days went by. Finally we got an identification. John Franklin in Hollywood reported that he'd sold the car to Hansen. However, when we checked the address he gave us we found that Hansen had moved a week before and left no forwarding address. We got in touch with the Department of Motor Vehicles and from them we got the address where they sent the pink slip. It was an apartment house out on Highland Avenue. Frank and I went out to check it out. Yes? Bernard Hansen in? No, he isn't. Something you wanted? You're expecting him? I don't know. I haven't seen him this morning. I just got here myself. What if we could talk to you? Who are you? Police officers. My name's Friday. This is my partner Frank Smith. How do you do? I'm Lily Edwards. Come on in. Thank you. Thank you, ma'am. Get you anything? A cup of coffee? Anything? No, no, thanks. When's your last see Hansen? Last night. We got a date at 2.30 this afternoon. What time is it now? Well, it's 2.37, ma'am. Late. He'll be along in a minute. What do you want to see him about? Done something? Better if we could talk to him. Personal, huh? Yes, ma'am. He's a wild one, old Bernie. Him in that red car. Real wild. Yeah. That car he drives. You know, it's a red old's. He's like a kid with it. Always wiping it off, taking care of it. I think he'd bring it up here at night if he could. Never seen anything like it. How long you known Hansen, Miss Edwards? Not long. A couple of weeks, I guess. Not much more than that. Where'd you meet him? Well, I hope you won't get the wrong idea, but... Ma'am. Well, I live down on Vine Street below Fountain, you know? Yeah. Well, I usually have morning coffee at the drugstore. The big one on Vine. Well, one morning, Barney comes in. I guess it's about nine somewhere around there. In the stool next to mine. Then he takes out a package of cigarettes and starts to light one. He's shaking so much he can hardly hold the match up to the cigarette. Oh, I got to laugh him because I thought he was hungover. Anyways, we got to talking, and the next thing I knew, he asked me out to lunch. Uh-huh. Well, I know it wasn't proper, but I figured, well, he seemed like a nice guy, so I told him that I'd meet him. We had lunch that day, and we sort of been going together since. I see. Hansen never told you what he did for a living? No. I asked him a couple of times, but he wouldn't say anything right to the point. He, you know, kind of heads around the bush. So I figured that he didn't want to tell me, and I stopped asking. He was always nice to me. No need for me to pry into his personal affairs. What time you got now? It's 2.40, ma'am. Can't understand it. He's usually so prompt. I hope nothing happened to him. He said sure to meet him at 2.30. Or was it 3.30? I don't remember too well. Never sure about times or dates, things like that, you know. Yes, ma'am. You ever met a man named Peterson, Marty Peterson? Marty Peterson? Yeah, I've met him, little guy. Yes, ma'am. Yeah, he's a friend of Barney's. They're in some sort of business together. I don't know just what it is, but I know that they're associated in some way. Hanson's never said anything about this business to you, has he? No. Like I said, he's very close-mouthed about what he does. Have you ever mentioned a Dr. Corby to you? Corby? No, I don't think I've ever heard that name before. Well, do you know how long Hanson's lived here? No, I think he moved in just before I met him. I don't think he's been here very long. Say, what are all these questions about? I hope I haven't said anything to get Barney in trouble. He's such a nice guy. I sure wouldn't want to do that. No, ma'am. We haven't done that. Hi, Lily. Who are you? What are you doing here? Police officers. You're under arrest, Hanson. For what? Suspicion to robbery. I'll shake him, John. Now, wait a minute. What is this? A shake down? What are you guys trying to prove? You got nothing on me. I fell once. I did my time. I owe you nothing. He's clean, John. Why'd you do that? I'm not giving you any trouble. I got no reason. You got nothing on me. I got nothing to worry about. I'll go with you. There's no reason not to. You've been mixed up in some robberies. Oh, knock it off. What do you mean, knock it off? Don't you talk to me like that. I'm not going to take talk like that from you. Like I said, knock it off. All right, come on. Let's go. You really figure you got me for a 2-11, huh? Yeah, we got the rest of them, too. Peterson and the doc? That's right. I suppose they talked, huh? Yeah, they told us all about it. Sweet racket. You'd have known it could only last so long. I should have figured that the longer I played against the house, the shorter my chances were. It is true.    Listen, Bernie Hansen, I told you before, don't you talk to me like that. I won't take it.  You know something, Scott? What's that? It may be kind of pleasure to get into a nice quiet jail.   Now, I told you, Bernie Hansen, I'm not going to have you talk to me like that. Kids are real true. Young. She's a real true. Let's go. Glad to get away from her. All right, Bernie Hansen. That does it. I'm through with you. I had it. It's going to be a long time before I even talked to you. A long time. Yeah, well, you're right about that. Let's go. The story you have just heard was true. The names were changed to protect the innocent. On February 4th, trial was held in Department 89, Superior Court of the State of California, in and for the county of Los Angeles. In a moment, the results of that trial. Now, here is our star, Jack Webb. Thank you, George Fenerman. Earlier tonight, George Fenerman gave you what I consider pretty strong evidence, the Chesterfield is the cigarette you ought to be smoking. That's why I'd like you to try a packet of Chesterfields. I think you'll find they give you everything you want. A real good taste and Chesterfield mildness. Bernard R. Hansen and Martin S. Peterson were tried and convicted of robbery in the first degree. They were filed on for 10 counts and received sentences as prescribed by law. Robbery in the first degree is punishable by imprisonment and the state penitentiary for a period of from five years to life. Dr. James Corby was allowed to plead guilty to a lesser charge and was sentenced to one year in the county jail and placed on probation for 10 years. One of the terms of his probation being that he is not permitted to operate a rest home. You have just heard DRAGNET, a series of authentic cases from official files. Technical advice comes from the Office of Chief of Police W. H. Parker, Los Angeles Police Department. Technical advisors Captain Jack Donahoe, Sergeant Marty Wynn, Sergeant Vance Brasher. Heard tonight were Ben Alexander, Vic Rodman, Herb Ellis. Script by John Robinson. Music by Walter Schumann. Hell, give me speaking. For a million laughs, tune in Chesterfield's Martin and Lewis show Tuesday on the same NBC station. And sound off for Chesterfields. Either regular or king size, you'll find premium quality Chesterfields much milder. Chesterfield is best for you. Chesterfield has brought you DRAGNET transcribed from Los Angeles. Ladies and gentlemen, in the fight against an old enemy polio, medical researchers armed us with a powerful new weapon, gamma globulin. Used soon enough, it can prevent the paralyzing effects of polio. But first, you must furnish the raw material, blood. Doctors urgently need your donation of blood to make gamma globulin. So call the Red Cross. Please don't put it off. It's too important. Call the Red Cross tomorrow and make an appointment to give blood.