I would say that it's great to be back, except that we are not really back, of course, but we are going to have to do things this way this year. So I'm going to talk about how we set up debug packages in OpenBSD. It's somewhat old work by now. I was supposed to present this last year at EuroBSD.com, which didn't happen, obviously. So I'm doing this from memory. I hope I didn't forget too many details. It's been a long while, actually. Well, that's a good point that we have had more feedback about how it works, but some details might be a little fuzzy, especially with who did what specifically. So this all started very quickly. As usual, in OpenBSD, it was a port cycloton, specifically. In 2019, November, Poliofti set up a port cycloton in Bucharest. So many thanks, but it was wonderful. And as usual, I was planning on working on something else. About the first day of the hackathon, he came to me, Paul, telling me that, hey, you know, there's this new stuff in Objcopy and GDB that we can use to actually build debug information into packages because we can now split off debug from the main program. And, well, why not? Let's try that. So how does it work? You've got about three lines with link tools. The first one is to only keep the debug information inside a separate file. So you do Objcopy dash dash, only keep debug, and you get the debug information on the side. Then you do some invocation on the strip, on the program proper, so that we lose the debug information in the program. And finally, you got some GNU extension for GDB, which allows the program to figure out that its debug information is actually in the new file that we created.  Basically, you just cut along the dotted lines and you got your debug information on the side. So quite simple. We tried that, and it worked. And that's about all. Okay, no, of course not. There's still about 30, 45 minutes or talk to talk about. The thing is that when you get a proof of concept like that, that you figure out, you can take out debug information and put it on the side. It's only the first step. And we've got lots of infrastructure details to make things as endless as possible to the poor folks, including me, who are going to actually port software to OpenBSD and try to provide debug information for people. So the first thing to do was to actually ship that debug information, which means that on the side of normal packages, you're going to have debug packages. Should we make them visible? By this, I mean that in the infrastructure, when you do make package, you are going to actually depend on some cookies that correspond to building each package. So should we add to the list of cookies so that debug packages are full blown packages? This was complicated to do, so I decided, okay, let's try something different. Let's try to make debug packages, let's say phantom packages that don't really exist. Most specifically, instead of creating two packages each time I do make package for simple parts, I'm going to just create one package and on the site, I'm going to also create the debug package so it doesn't really show up all that much in the infrastructure. As for adding stuff at runtime, this was actually the trivial part because for this, we've got update signatures for normal packages, and it was completely straightforward to just say, okay, the debug package is going to have the exact same signature as the normal package so that when you update the normal package, the debug package will update as well at the same time in synchronization. That was really the only part that worked from the start without needing any of our changes to make things work better. Since we were at Hackathon, it was a perfect location to do some rapid development. So like I said, make package, in a nutshell, it's just make package cookies because it's open BSD and we have multi-packages, etc. I will come back to that later. As far as the debug packages go, we chose, well, I chose a very simple naming convention. I just prepended debug to the front of the package name for two reasons. One reason is that we don't have packages which start with debug, and the second reason was simply that when you look at the full listing for all packages on a snapshot, if you put everything with debug at the front, you're going to have a perfectly normal listing with just a few pages of debug packages, but it's not like you are going to scatter debug packages' names all over the place. I could also have decided to put them in a separate directory, but for mirrors and stuff like that, this meant that I would have to add some logic that I don't want to. I wanted to make things as simple as possible. So as far as creating debug information, the first iteration was simply to add the variable to the makefile, debug files, which listed explicitly which files we wanted debug information for, on which we applied objcopy transformation, and the first iteration as well, I wrote the packing list manually. It was just enough as a proof of concept to allow people to play with it and figure out whether they did manage to get debug packages that made sense for them. First iteration, obviously it's not going to stay that way, but having lots of beta testers in the room, crash test developers, I would say, that was the way to go, I think. As far as creating debug packages, it should be done manually. Just having debug files defined in the makefile was enough. Also, we added obviously extra configure arguments to the configure step. At this point, most of was ready to go through configure and simply add minus g to the cflags and remove street from the install part. That was it. I think that of the room of developers, there were something like 20 of us. Most of them did try that configuration and figured out that, okay, we have actual debug packages that work. Which was great. And of course, I got some suggestions. Oh, okay. So let me show you how this looked at that point. This is just small fragments from the port infrastructure. So basically, we have three variables, debug packages, to say, okay, we are going to have some actual extra packages, debug files, the stuff that does the unscopy routine, and debug configure hours, just in case that configure cannot do stuff automatically that you have to overwrite things. Since we are open BSD, we have multi packages and flavors. How does that work? This is just a summary of basic information regarding open BSD. We do build stuff once. We put install into staging area called fake. And then we are going to split possibly the install information into several packages. Like for instance, if you have big stuff like parts of QTE, you might have the main program, you might have some sample demos and some extra documentation on the site, which gives you three separate packages. So more or less at first, we just create, we just named a debug package file for each of those packages. And in order to split off documentation from the start, any package which doesn't have an actual architecture, if package arch is equal to star, that means that this is the same package for everything, which is more or less documentation package. Then we are not going to actually have debug package cookie for that specific package. And that takes care of almost every case where you don't want to have an empty debug package. So like I said, if you have some of those variables, not empty, like 19 in this slide, you are going to have some really straightforward debug options. Like you don't strip during install, you add some debug flags, and that's it. And finally, there was adding the creation of debug packages proper. So more or less instead of doing a straightforward create package, I put that into make file variable, like create package for package s. And in case we have debug package set, so starting from line 41, you are going to have a second call to create package to actually create the debug package with some more or less the same options as the normal create package, apart from taking the packing list from somewhere and creating some really straightforward, very simple stuff. The only fun things here is that we reuse the exact same dependency information as the normal package, which does ensure that we are going to get the exact same update signature for the debug package and the normal package. Finally, there was the use of debug files. So just add an extra target, which is going to do the hopscopy dance for every files and debug files. At first, I didn't know what to do with static libraries. So there was a test in line 62 that I'm going to do the same thing for each binary and shared object. And I'm not going to do the same thing for static libraries. Later on, I realized that I didn't want to have to do anything with static libraries. So that part is really not interesting at all. So this was the first iteration. And even though it worked, it was a lot of manual integration for people. So the first feedback I got that, okay, this works, but we need to do something that should be simpler to use. So I decided to reuse previous work. So if you refer to one of the last Eurobase.com, I talked about how I would update the list. And more or less update the list as most of what we want. It does possibly read existing packing lists. It does possibly scan the information under a staging area under fake. And well, packing lists under openBSD are annotated. You've got stuff that says, okay, this is a binary. This is a shared object. We just needed an extra annotation for this loading module without any version information, which was trivial to add. And after that, we can just reuse the exact code from the dead pay list to actually grab the debug information and do something with it. Let me check the time. Okay. So why was it simple to do? It's because the dead pay list, as I said in a previous talk, is already fully object oriented. It grabs all the information it needs directly from package create arguments, which means that already we have a parser, which is common to package create and to a dead pay list with a specific derived sub case for dead pay list. And we just need to reuse that class and change a few details to have our build debug info tool reuse most of the code. One very, very important part about that is that this means that whenever we change something in the infrastructure, we add some new annotations, some new features. Most of the code is inherited. You don't have to rewrite everything from scratch. If you have, say, 95% of the support required to handle some new annotation or some new class of files, then you just need to write for five remaining percent. And that's it. You don't have to do everything from scratch. Okay. The only part that was a bit clunky at that point was how we are going to do the Opscopy dance. So the second iteration of the tool did create debug info file, which contains line two free informations for each file. The debug path where we're going to put the data, the original program name and the actual debug info file. So this is still a bit clunky for various reasons. I don't know why I did it that way because actual way to do things should be obvious. I'll let you think about it. You get the answer in a few slides. Don't pick it. But they seem to work just fine for starters. At which point I got some very specific feedback from friends. I've selected two of them, which are most significant. Stuart Henderson is in charge more or less of everything mirrors relative to packages. So we figured out that debug packages is going to grow the mirror size a lot, which is why we decided to make them opt-in. Like it does not make sense to actually create a debug package for everything under OpenBSD. There are lots of programs which takes less than one minute to compile without any dependencies. And unless they are really critical, anybody can create debug packages for them on their own. The real benefit in having debug packages is for stuff that is large. Like for instance, you don't want to recompile Qt5 or I don't know Mozilla or a Gimp from scratch. Those are cases where you're going to gain a lot of time having debug packages. Also, coping with every architecture we support didn't seem like a good idea at the time for two reasons. The first one was it would grow the mirror size even worse. And the second reason is that we still compile file things natively on OpenBSD. So 32-bit architectures are not likely to get debug packages easily because if you're already close to the limit when you try to compile stuff on 32-bit architectures, then it's very likely that debug information is going to push them over the edge. We can revisit those decisions later, but we did focus on actually debugging stuff that would be arch-independent first. So I'm the 64 and then we possibly extend it to over 64-bit architectures. And then for some packages, we can extend it to 32-bit architectures. So that was it with Stuart and it was a good idea. Antoine Jacoutot also gave me some fairly pertinent advice. As usual with Antoine, it's, hey, I tried to do that stuff and it doesn't really work. Like some Python packages didn't want to have debug. So looking closer, it was obvious in retrospect. That's because if you have our links, then the Opscopy dance won't work. For instance, if you have two links to the same program, the first strip is going to remove the debug information from that program. And of course, the second Opscopy won't be able to find anything. So let me give you a better picture. The second iteration of debug packages was simply to say, okay, we have the packing list data. We're going to process that using package create arguments for build debug info. And that will give us debug packing list and some kind of list for debug files. But if we want to take our links into account, we have to just take the staging area information as well. So build debug info on top of packing lists is also going to reuse the information from the staging area to figure out which files are actually hard links. And as you can see from the warning signs, the debug files list is probably going to be a bit more complicated because you can do the same thing with normal files with a single link and files which have an actual hard link. Most specifically, so in the simple case, if you have two links, two names for the same program A and B, then the first time you create the debug information for A. And naturally, B is going to point to the debug information for A. With most binaries, you don't have to do anything. The only snag is that the debug link that you stuff into your program does not have the full path. So if A and B actually live in separate directories, you will still need to do a link for debug information because if I come back to one of the first slides, that one. Okay, you see here, line three, that the debug file information is called .debug slash program.dbg. So it's located under the same directory as your original program. So if your hard link lives somewhere else, you have to create a link to the debug information as well. That's more or less if this is the algorithm we are going to have to use. So like I said earlier, we are in multi-packages land. So there is another part of multi-packages which needed to work in this case, which is that actually we don't build all packages, also packages for all architectures all the time. We have this stuff which is called pseudo-flavors that you set to say, okay, in this case because I don't have this dependency, I'm not going to build this specific sub-package. So there was a bit of glue to write in the infrastructure to make sure that I would only try to build debug packages for packages, sub-packages, sorry, which are arch-dependent, no debug packages for documentation, and also trimmed on the list to remove packages that we are actually not building at this time for this architecture. This is just a detail. I'm not going to expand more about that. Just the kind of stuff that, okay, you have tens of very small details to take care of until everything works perfectly. So once we set up multi-packages, our infrastructure will remove stuff to create build packages. So in Vient, we just set debug packages equal build packages, and since Mac is lazy, this won't get evaluated until build packages is actually set. And this means that we don't have more to do. We just need to actually remove arch-independent packages, and that's it. We have perfectly accurate debug packages set. You could still set debug packages manually to subsets. Like for instance, if you have main application and everything else you don't really need to debug, you could just generate one debug packages. But so far, I don't think we have actually used that for real. The next problem was a problem of workflow. If you remember, at this point, we create the debug information during the staging part. But when we update a port, at some point, we need to run the update playlist. But in order to do that, we need for fake to finish. And at this point, so second iteration of the debug packages work, we do the staging area normally. And we run the copy debug info target at Vient of fake. So if some files are no longer there, which is quite possible because the packing list hasn't been updated already, then our loop to extract the debug information is going to fail. Possibly even worse, if there are new binaries, they are not going to get through that loop. So first thing is that possibly it might fail, which is by the idea. So we have to have copied a bug info just once if there are any issues, which isn't a good idea because people don't always look at warning messages. They need actually errors to stop and reflect on what's going on. And also, you might create the bug packages that do not contain everything. So the actual solution was to wait until make package to run build debug info and have it extract the debugging information, not really, but create some file that will extract the debugging information. So instead of having make package extract the debugging information each and every time, it does depend on the make file that actually extracts the debugging information. And that make file gets updated every time make fake is run again, which means that we do it just once, which is great because we finish fake. We do update playlist. Then we do make package. If the playlist has been updated, then it will recreate a make file which is up to date with every binary we need to extract debugging information from. And also because it's a make file, each debug file is actually depending on the underlying file with debugging information. So we run a copy just once. If it's already been run, then next time it won't happen again. So we don't have the problem that we try to extract debugging information from a file that's already been handled. In retrospect, this is much simpler than the second iteration I had. I had lots of problems of chicken and egg between debug information and file and creating scripts that extract debugging information. Okay, we have files that depend on other stuff. It's what make files have been made for. So how does it look in practice? Here is an instance of a generating make file. We have two rules which are a bit complicated. Obscopy rule is we create debug directory first. Then if we are privileged, which means that we are actually running stuff as different user for the staging information, we have to extract the stats of the file we want to change. We have to make it read-write because most binaries are usually read and execute only. I did a check on line 8 and 9 checking whether we were actually getting debug information. So this is the first indication that something went wrong during configuring build.  Then you do the code that we talked about, ObscopyDance. I'll talk about DWZ later. Then you restore the original permissions to your file and that's it. For links, you got a second rule, line 18 and 19, which is stupidly that you create a link from the original debug information to the final debug information. Then you simply have a list of targets where every debug file is just depending on the actual normal file and invokes either the Obscopy rule or the link flow. Okay, this make file does fall off the right hand, but it's not really interesting to know what's going on on the right side. So this made for a much improved workflow for creating debug packages. In the whole process, you had to run fake staging area, which generates some debug info which may or may not be accurate. Then you run update pedis, which will invalidate the meta info necessary for files to debug. So before actually packaging, you need to remove a staging area, recreate the staging area, which does take some time for big parts. And it was frankly a major pain to do things that way. So in the new process, you do make fake. There is no debugging info involved at this stage. You run update pedis, then at the start of make package, you create debug info which is accurate, which corresponds to the staging area and the updated packing list. And you end up with up to date packages. End of story, this was much cleaner and it worked much better. So, okay, just some details. If we run make package once and created the debug info, we just need to have some up to date dependencies in the make file. So that we don't need to extract the debug information if it's already been done. On the other side, if we run update pedis, then we regenerate the make file for debug information. And that make file which we consider each file one after the other, and extract debug information or not for that file. There is a small edge case where it might not work specifically if we had a given program in a version of the packing list. And in the next version, we have the same program and hard link to that program. Then maybe the other might be wrong and we might try to extract debug information from the wrong file name. So far, we haven't run into it. It's the one case where you might have to clean fake and do things again. And otherwise, it just works. So, to sum up things from the porters point of view, you need to obtain, you need to create, to declare which packages you want debug stuff for in order to keep the repository under a manageable size. It's not just only the size needed for mirrors, but you got to realize that we have new snapshots every few days for md64, like every two or three days, which means that you need to find out a large number of files to which mirror, which takes some bandwidth obviously. So, if you grow the repository too much, it will take more time for packages to end up on each mirror, which makes things less useful actually. So, obtain is mostly debug packages equal build packages and that's it. In most cases, 95% of the time, you don't need to do anything to have debug information generated correctly. And the part that actually processes the staging area and creates the debug packages entirely automatic. I haven't had to add any exceptions to that part. It's very specific, as long as the packing lists are up to date, as long as you have actual annotations for binary, short libraries and modules, then the part that creates debug packages is entirely automatic. A quick flashback to TWZ, if I have time. Yeah, I have. So, this is a tool that was found, I think, Brian Calhan, or maybe with a bit of help with Jeremy Courage-Gendreau as well, to make the debug packages a bit smaller. Turns out that whatever ends up as dwarf debug information is not as small as it could be. And some people wrote a nice tool that makes it a little bit more compact. So, that's just the detail that we depend on TWZ for everything, except TWZ, which has to be able to call itself to compress its debug information. Turned out to be interesting, like there are some cases where the debug information is complex enough, Mozilla, that TWZ won't work. But apart from that, it shrunk debug packages by about 10%, which is not too shabby considering that debug packages are already compressed with Zlib. On the packages side, there are a few things to do, actually. At first, I simply did, okay, you just packaged the debug stuff that you want, and you were able to debug stuff. But you have some shearing effects, most specifically, in order for GBDB to work correctly. It has to have a perfect match between binary packages and the debug information. Otherwise, it's going to crash in awful ways. So, the way the dwarf people made things work is that each program generates a specific hash for its binary code, and that hash is going to be the exact same hash for the debug information that matches this program. So, each time you actually recompile this, you are going to create some new matchy colleges for debug information. And so, if you have a given package and a debug package, which are off by just a little bit, that's enough for debug information to work. So, in case you are working with releases, this is not a problem. But obviously, in case you want to work with snapshots, you're going to have some issues. If you say, if you install some application and then later on, you figure out that, okay, I have a bug in this application. I want to debug it. Then you have to actually reinstall the application and the debug package most of the time, because the debug packages that you are going to find on the mirror are not the same ones that the application was compiled with. So, I just added some two very simple options to package that to deal with it. The first one was to add an option, minus D. Surprisingly enough, I did not use minus D for anything yet. To automatically install and update debug packages when available, silently, which means that if you don't have a debug package for something, it's not an error. You just add debug packages to the list of stuff that could be added, updated if they exist, which takes a lot of room on your system. And the second option, which is what we use most of the time and which is a preferred option for developers, which is to set directory as debug package cache. And each time you add or update a package, then it's going to look for the corresponding debug packages. And it's going to save them for you in their compressed state in that debug directory, which means that later on, if you want to actually debug something, you just install the debug packages from your cache. And you have a guarantee that these debug packages are going to be 100% up to date with respect to your package, specifically because maybe the package and the snapshot mirror is going to be different. But each time you update the package on your machine, it decides to look for the debug package and don't load it as well to the debug cache. And that's enough. It ensures that each time you get a package, you have the debug package on the side as well. I think that's about all. We are something like two years later. I've looked at some numbers we have this day, something like 700 debug packages on OpenBSD, which means that most significant stuff actually has debug packages. Like we said, it's opt-in, which means that other stuff doesn't have debug packages because no one saw a need for that. Small packages, stuff that are actually interpreted stuff for the most part. We could easily create debug packages for more stuff, but so far it hasn't been useful. There are still a few remaining issues, like some frameworks make it complicated to have debug information on the side. Those poor souls who are working with CMake know what I'm talking about, where you have release mode and a debug mode, which are completely different. And basically here, what we want to do is we want to stay in release mode, but compile stuff with minus g and strip stuff during the fake stage. And CMake doesn't make it very easy to do, but I think that more or less it works this way, these days. There's always the open issue that compilers and linkers are not perfect. So adding minus g might change the compilation and linking to change a bit, and you might end up with binaries, which are slightly different from what you get when you just run your optimizer. And finally, that's the question for newer or smaller platforms. Which platforms you want debug packages for? Do we want them for WIS-5, or do we want them for Spark64, or ILM64? That's really easy to do. We just need to add the platform to debug architectures and see what crashes. This is not work I've been doing. This is stuff I'm delegating to people who are in charge of such architectures. Just to be said that what we have here works just fine for MB64 and can be used for about anything else. Okay, more or less on time. Do I have any questions? Yes. Yes. That was the question from Fred Finster, raised his hand. Brad, please go ahead. On the slide, not on the slide. In this thing, almost accurately, it's not very visible. This is Kristoff says in the chat, please feel any questions. The room will pause in about nine minutes before the next talk. So, if you mark it through. Yeah, sure. I hope it was possible to understand things so far. Yes. We'll be looking at whatever turns up in the chat then. Several people are typing. Even if you don't understand the old sales, we'll have the other result. Yes, well, it's good. It was mostly to explain that something that's actually very simple in concept can lead to lots of small data to implement. I think we're on to the applause then. Thank you very much Mark. I hope we will, next year, hopefully, we'll do this a physical conference. The cool thing that this year it was supposed to be in Vienna, and actually no Vienna. It wasn't all that bad to have this. I think we probably will be announcing it today at the end of the conference that there will be a physical conference in Vienna next year. I have to work on something to be able to come. Yeah, so basically we'll need to think of something to say then. I think there are no further questions. As I said, this room will go away for a few moments in a few minutes. The next talks are up at 11.45 in this room. The next talk is from Peter Chanik working with the BSD ports. I think he's a free BSD guy. In the other room there's a ghost BSD talk by Andy and the arts. So please feel free to mingle. There is also this special little chat that you've got a link for has lots of rooms with the hangouts. Can you repost the link to the chat because each chat is it and I didn't say it last time. The special chat was, hang on, you were... Okay, Luna already paces. Okay, so since there doesn't seem to be any more questions I'm going to give back the microphone and the webcam. All right, thank you very much. You're welcome. Fully, see you next year.


Welcome traders to another Tickmail Earnings Report preview with me, Patrick Munley. Before we jump into today's report, it's important as always that we appear to the risk disclaimer. The material provided is for information purposes only and should not be considered as investment advice. Views, information and opinions expressed by me in this recording are solely mine and they're not addictive or representative of those held by Tickmail UK or Tickmail Europe Limited. Okay, let's jump into today's report. We are looking at Home Depot. Home Depot is expected to announce earnings after the New York closed today. Wall Street analysts expect Home Depot will report earnings of $3.68 per share. In terms of the earnings per share, 28 analysts are predicting earnings of $3.68 per share as opposed to the earnings of $3.86 per share in the same quarter last year. Wall Street is expecting sales of $36.7 billion, a decrease of 2.14% over the prior year's quarter. With regard to the current fiscal year, analysts forecast a profit per share of $16.99. Last year it was $15.53 per share. In terms of sales, analysts estimate that the company will bring in $153.87 billion in the current fiscal year compared to $151.16 billion in the same period last year. Let's take a look at some of the statistical trading patterns around the earnings released for Home Depot. Shares have moved lower in the immediate aftermath of earnings 9 out of 12 previous reports. On average, stock moved down 1.7% in the first day of trading after the company's earnings release. Based on the previous 12 earnings releases, Home Depot is more likely to trade lower one day after earnings from an average loss of 0.8%. On average, the stock has moved higher one week after earnings by an average of 0.1%. From an implied volatility perspective and looking at the potential moves around the release, options traders are pressing in a 6.7% move on earnings. The stock has averaged a 4.4% move in recent quarters. From a flow and sentiment perspective, on May 16th there was a notable buyer of just over 1,000 contracts, 1,004 contracts of the $300 call which expires this Friday. In options, order flow sentiment in general has been bullish. Investor sentiment going into the company's earnings release though only has 37% expecting an earnings beat. Share prices tended to drift lower 5.8% post earnings announcements. Using the last 12 quarters of data, the average drift between earnings announcement is a 7.3% move. Let's take a look at the charts now and see if we can identify any near-term trading opportunities. Looking at the chart, we have been in a downtrend and I note that the monthly volume-wasted average price is actually turned negative now. From a technical perspective, currently on the daily timeframe developing in a wedge pattern here, for me any breach of the $278 downside, any close through that $278 downside, opens a move to test support down to $247. So watching for any close through that $278 to be on the short side, targeting move to the 247. However, if we can get a close through the descending trend line resistance and the pivot here at $304, I would look to engage on the long side, looking initially for a test of the high volume node up to $319. And then as pullbacks remain supported, we can look for a potential test of range resistance up to $339 on the upside. So it's really going to be key to see where this next close comes, either through the pivot on the upside or through the descending trend line support on the downside to identify whether or not we're going to trade it from the long and the short side. As always, traders, plan the trade, trade the plan, and most importantly, manage all this. Until next time, thanks very much.


For those who are joining, welcome, welcome. It's way for the attendees to be placed in the room. And that will be going in a few and a couple of minutes. OK, I think we can start now. Now we have some people joining. All right, welcome today to part two of our DotPost member showcase in our webinar series. We are featuring, as you recall from yesterday's session, Ethiopost from Ethiopia. And what they are showcasing is their digital transformation journey and how they've utilized DotPost to deeply diversify their digital transformation and their digital journey for the last maybe year or so. So to do that, we began yesterday by giving a high level business focus presentation on the journey of Ethiopost and what triggered this decision to proceed in this direction and the metrics they were using and the successes they've had thus far, very interesting presentation. We have a lot of good questions coming in on their challenges and who they used to assist and how others may be able to participate in this journey. So my name is Tracy Haksha. I am the DotPost business manager at the University of Postal Union within the Coastal Technology Center. And with me today is my colleague, Meysam Sipra, from the DotPost business management unit. And our key speaker, Ibrahim Qadir, who is the Chief Information Officer from Ethiopost. Hello, Ibrahim. Welcome to the evening. And I understand from our discussions yesterday we will have an extremely deep dive session into what you've been using, how you've been able to deploy your DotPost as well as the e-commerce environment, and other e-services or digital services on top of the Ethiopost framework that is now running on Ethiopost as you can see on screen. So we're very happy to have you here today to do this deep dive and to remind everyone to ask questions. Feel free to pose your questions throughout the session. But as you are familiar with our process by now, the question approach is done through text. So we will ask that you use the Q&A function within Zoom, which on most versions of Zoom will be right next to the participants at the bottom of your screen. I mean, that's not confusing. So there's a Q&A function right there. And you can put some comments and feedback in the chat. Just remember to drop down and make sure it's to everyone when you do that. And we can begin by you, for those of joining us, introducing yourselves, say who you are, where you're from, and why you are interested in this presentation. Maybe that's all we can do by using the chat. So without further ado, I'd like to now introduce you to Ibrahim, who will take it from here. And we'll take you through this deep dive and some best practices on the entire digital journey that ethio post took and how they utilize the dot post environment to deploy their e-services and how to do it securely. So Ibrahim, over to you. Thank you very much, Tracy. Just for today, presenting the ethio post best practice on the dot post domain, high level domain name. Before that, I would like to tell you one or just introduce myself. My name is Ibrahim Rukader. I am chief information officer for ethio post and I have been here for one years and I have 15 years working experience in the IT industry. So thank you very much for the UPU staff and the management who give us to present our best practice on the high level domain name dot post. Thank you. So today, we will discuss then presenting you that the dot post best practice on the dot post domain for website, dot post for email address, and dot post for e-commerce best practice. So today, agenda mainly concern or introduction of ethio post website digital service, driving forces for a new website with that new domain. The dot post group support, what was the dot post group support to be had the dot post domain and the new domain promotion strategy. What was the promotion to our customers, to our stakeholders and anyone who have information for our dot post domain, the major achievement on branding, security, online service. And we'll discuss one of the role when we implement the dot post domain and implement the new website. There are a number of us upon to have very great achievement and support regarding on that. So all of the government body roles and IT staff source will be covered on my presentations. And the final, our future plan for the dot post groups. We're coming for the first things. What's the dot post? I would like to just explain some things about dot post hosting. But the website have been just transferred to UPUs and the dot post because, which is to take one minute on the load and the new website is significantly faster and credableness has the dot post domain. As you know, the UPU has the international organization that support the designated offices or post offices supporting in technologies and advancement in the digitalizations, global digitalization change. So in this case, the dot post have been created by UPUs to support the designated postal services over the country, member service over the country. So the first thing is I should have to clarify or explain some features of our website because without website, the high level domain is nothing. So you should have to know about our website because we have designed a state of arts designed a website for Ethiopia. So as I told you that the Ethiopia website is completely redesigned with the modern and user interface standards because our customers have experience on digital experience on their day to day life. So we should have to design and plan to implement new websites. So this was a website functionalities in the different services of our products. So we redesigned our websites on the past one years. So our website is just more of, more of, sorry, each page is optimized for search engine optimizations with the meta image keywords and descriptions. So you can just find in the Google engines, just we just appeared in the first list is up on the Google search engines. So you can just find out in the cell, our website on the search engine optimizations. The other features of our website is a calculator that was developed using Ethiopia's internal data for shipment because most of the time the customers worry about how much they pay for their charges of services. So they visit, we available this is such kind of problems to solve the such kind of problems and you can just browse on our website and how much calculates, how much charge from Ethiopia to Germany, Ethiopia to France, Ethiopia to Switzerland. So if it's affordable, you can make that across our counter area and they will serve on the sys and find another options. So we have avali the price calculator features on the websites. So most of things have been easiest and more smart as on this way. So that's also connected with the e-commerce parts of the website to provide shipment is the statement of the product. So the calculator is not only for calculation but also it's integrated with the e-commerce scientists. Another features, best features of our website is just find out, you can find a 700 branch of Ethiopia posts physically on the globe maps which is on the Google map. So anyone who found on the different parts of the provenance of the country inside in Ethiopia and find out where is our branch, what the detail of the branch post one, post one informations. So you can find out our locations with our website. I think our websites. So we can interactive and easy to fill it out. Brands locators has been developed. The branch can now also just categorize in the regionals and provenance levels. So they can easily access the profile of the one postman services. The very, very critical issue was e-commerce portal. So our portal has been just solved with the e-commerce problems just to sales online or goods and services. So with the e-commerce sections of the website is functional and integrated with the cyber soft for international payment. So anyone can buy goods and other things from anywhere in the globe, anywhere in the globe by using cyber soft international payment. And in the locality, whether we integrate with Telebore, Telebore is a digital finance in Ethiopia. So anyone can buy goods and things on the e-commerce page. So we have accessible on the e-commerce and e-shops service on the website. This is the greatest achievement on this year on our IT and digitalization practice. The other one is, I think the postal service as an historical and they should have to show their customer the generations about what is the history of postal services. On this part, we avail philateli items that are cataloged and organized and easier to filter search and finds. So you can find a number of philatelis who, what's kind of philateli avail who designed the philatelis. When the philateli was designed, you can have different search optimizations to find and fair accessible of philateli services. And you can physically find out this philateli in the counters area and our headquarters museum. So these are most of our online service. The other one is just simpler and you can find a number of information on our page. The back-ins is developed using the WordPress and Formaliki and the EZ of it, I think. And the others customs and existing types of easily can be created and we can manage easily without any detail skillset, detail advanced knowledge. We can find out this kind of service on our website. The other thing is that we have also implemented dirt to dirt pickup, dirt to dirt delivery. So anyone can just fill out his information and request our daily pickup, I mean order for the pickup booth and service. So we have this kind of information on our website. This kind of forms available on the website. Anyone can find the forms and fill out the service and will serve him based on the detail of his information. So the online service also applied. The other dynamic feature of our website is the chat box because of the customers may need the information of his goods, which is sent by him. So, and he wanted to track where his goods have been sent by him. And he wanted to ask anything on the inquiry. So we have a dynamic chatting platform, Tito, which is mean Tito is integrated for online support. So far, 600 requests have been answered through the system. It's an online search and any questions can be just deliver for his, our customer. So the other thing is just our customer is our thematic area. So serve our customers, our brand motto is serve our customer. So which is a feedback, what was our pitfiller? What should we need to have just re innovation, re in reminding and others things should be collected from our customers. So we have available customer service forms. So on the website, they can provide us some comments on the regarding on our products and services. The other thing is a smarter way of our website is just related to the appearance. The, this website also just in the good way of supporting special needs practically on the contrasts, highlights, bigger text and different kinds of sounds, different kinds of future have been integrated with our website to support the special needs customer. So besides the goal, goal analysis and tracking system, we have all integrated hotjar that service are the track behavior and the interactive user of measure. So we have integrated on that pathway. The other thing is that our website have a future for email campaign service, which is Mailchops is integrated to collect users and our customers future marketing. The very critical and the recent futures have been launched on our website is just renewing our web. I mean, our post box online, which is integrated by Mailchop that's integrated to collect, integrate the users' emails for futures market needs. And we also deployed the online post box renewal for our customers because most of the time the post box users have just come in our office physically and renew their annual renewal process on the rented post boxes. So we availed online rent post renewal systems and they will pay digitally with our website. So not send the circular for so displayed on our website. So this is all about a little bit about our website. I invite you to visit our website in detail on the www.ityo.post and then you can find out very, very interesting features on our website. So what's the driving forces for the new website and a new tool because of a globalization, digitalization campaigns, we should have to change our surface and we should have to compete with the industry. We need to have really digitalized our services and goods with the digital process. And we need to reach our customer with digital opportunity or options. In this case, the first driving force for our digitalizations and our postal domain and website is postal service digitalization plan. As you know that postal organization should have to renew and reform itself to access or to compete with the industry. So it's an universal access to postal service has also one of the main tasks to be digitized the postal designated postal services. The other finds the right balance between the universal coverage and competition. So we need to have just the digitalized our service with the to reach our customer. To promote new service development trust, also a service should be delivered for the customer should be one of the competent advantage of our industry. Reorganize the way why the spray dog cover also postal service which must be sustained and more importantly expected by the boarding access and existing services in the area should we have available what the digital options. So in this case, as you will see on the slide, both there are many points international course to increase the visibility of the posting the digital economy, the promote trust in digital postal service and accessible digital transformation innovation service the wider postal communities. Yeah, the international postal agenda and the stage for postal designated postal organization. The other driving forces of using dot post is us. The top level domain is the very important and very critical for postal organization because as I told you yesterday, why not use the dot com? Why not use the dot info? Why not use dot net? Because as postal organizations, I think the dot post is the brand name because of brand name. We are post office. So we need to have dot post domain. Without dot post domain, most of our network outside the country or internationally where the single vendor or a single just commercial man, they will consider that the first thing is that the other thing is the post domain is very, very just critical for will assign for the post offices. So this advantage has pushed us to gain the dot post high level domain. The top level domain are reserved for groups and the organizations that share common camps and the criticals like business organizations, agencies including dot gov, dot post, dot edu, dot mail, which is these kinds of high level domains cannot be accessed without the accessibility or without the agreement of the organization that we assigned by legal. So we are a post office or we provide postal service. So we need to have gained the post office, I mean dot post domain, high level domain. Like that top level domain. So sponsored top level domains provide information about website and their relative industry. For example, dot edu is a reserved for accredited educational institution. As you know that United States or any other government organization, dot edu is a sponsored top level domain for education. So as edu and as dot gov, we need to have a dot post high level domains to have accessibility, to rebrand our organization, to digitize our services for our customers. Then most of the time we will achieve more focus on our customers on the dot post domain. In this case dot post is the sponsored top level domain as you know that the postal sector is at high level which is secured and trusted electronically which is managed by the UPU technology unit. So infrastructure on the internet service and needs have global postal committee in cyber security dot post also immediately identify legitimate postal service and avoid confusion for individuals or business. What is the business? What kind of business? Is that charity business? Is that only for commercial business? Is that server for public industry? So we need just identify ourselves for the our customers by using the high level sponsored top level domain dot post. And so that post is to integrate the physical financial and electronic service of the designated postal offices. Most of the time as I told you yesterday the UPU technology center has just designed and put out his efforts to support the designated postal service technology to be technological, to be digitalized. So this service also will just provide for us by the UPU technology unit. This dot post also important for e-commerce and e-government service to integrate each other because of the postal organization should have to renovate itself for providing its service using e-commerce. So the e-commerce should be secured e-commerce should be more managed and e-commerce should be more integrated each other. So the dot post domain is one of the aims to support such kind of service for the designated postal service on the globe. On this part, so I have to just clarify some security feature of the dot post. As I told you that the dot post uses the latest internal security service as we get starting from the connection with the dot post, we have just security features. It's the first sponsored top level domain. So be 100% secured by the domain names which is a security extensions. And the DNS also the global database system that are transferred and completely qualified in domain names into the internet protocol as IP address which is more secured. And we also then the trust dot post domain is not taking you that a fake postal website because when we get the dot post domain, our domain names also just publish for 30 days before assurance the original name because there's such kind of comment should be collected from other parties and some complainers may have complained. So the dot post app just precise our name for 30 days for confirmations and no one complained. We guard the dot post domain. The other thing is that as a dot post for a community it's a fully authenticated and strict control on the PTC the Postal Technology Center. Who can own the post you can assure a website managed by the organization recognized by the UPU. So we have a very, very important opportunity to get from the UPU PTC Center. The other thing is that the other future of dot post is interconnectivity. You think this religious control domain owners interconnect to their domains and serve each others in safe and trusted environment. Interoperability also has one of the other advantage using the dot post standard. It's a interoperability service also open up new international digital service. The first, the others very important thing is as I told you that the e-commerce and the governance service also integrate each other. So this service should be integrated with each other to reach the customer over the globe. So on this part the dot post support also just physically and also the online support happen. Just one of other support from the other side in the dot post groups. How we register the dot post domain. As I told you that if anyone can register on the dot post you should have to fill out some processes and how can we just show us how can we get the dot post domain. The first thing is that we need to have to just plan to get the dot post or registering the dot post domain. So the dot post have a valid link to register and link to just requesting forms. So we have just asked it for a requested forms on the online portal. And then after that they communicate each others and first of all our chief executive officer have requesting the formal letters into the company. And after that the process have been just throughout the registration process and company and trading names, product names and company and territory names has a mandatory what is your company, what is your territory if as a designated company you should have to, where are you, who are you and why you use this dot post. This question should be just answered by the ambassador and fully just demanded. On the examples, the Zumbabi post, Stamps dot post, Ethiode dot post, whatever. So it's a simple and to identify what you want to dot post. The country territory, just like Namibia post, South Africa post, US post, Nigeria post, Morocco, Ethiopia post. You can find out this kind of email, I mean this kind of domain without any frustrating because when you go to the dot.com you can find the real name because most of the name are occupied by the other party. So you have an opportunity to get the real name and short name of your domain. So the registration process is validating your organization submit the name requests, this is a domain, request your domain name and the way request them and apply for ID community then receive approval from the UPU. So approval should be just 30 day comment and in validation period should be waited then do not leave the to last minute, okay? Because this is the secured sponsored high level domain. So you should have to wait for 30 days because you have applied as another domain names are accessible anywhere from the global and the book time. This kind of dot post high level domain is not accessible at one time because it should be secured. It should be designed for the postal organizations and support for these talent and rebrand the postal organization. So you don't have, you're getting your dot post domain in a minute, okay? So this is one kind of the security mechanism. The other things what I want to explain is that domain promotion strategy. So previously we have it your posts that come domain but we have planned to change our domain to dot post. So we need to have inform our customers, our service partners and others partners. We need to have promote our website. How can we promote the domain? The first thing is that as I told you, designing well-smarted, well-repreranded and state of art websites. So in this case, the most obvious and primary use of our domains name should be posted on the website because without the website, the domain is nothing. Anyone can find out that it's nothing. So in this case, we have planned to redesign our website and post on that new domain. The other thing is it's come to growth and business and promote our website, working as a value and instrument to get people to notice and other things. So we have state of art, we have developed the state of art websites to promote the our website. The other thing is just remember our domain, to remember our domain, we need to have just selecting the best name in the domain because most of the time, most of domains are very long, which is not remorable, not to remember. So we have selected etio, etio means our, which means etiopia, you know? So etio dot post, Zimbabwe dot post. Any, you can find out your country and your domain have been just getting from your dot post as a designated postal services or postal organization. In this case, we're on the road for our commerce and branding the terms of memorable and uniqueness in this case. The other things are promotion strategies, designing the, which is the corporate email, business email. Most of the time, most of organizations use the open source email. That is very dangerous for our organizers because when you use the business email, you will promote your organization. You are the member of organization. You just give the access or you deserve for that organization. That's why, well, in this case, we just implement the dot post, etio dot post domain name emails and we distribute it and we implement the policy to use this email. And when our professional communicates with each other and outside the organization, just most of communicators knows about our domain name and in other, just our, we will promote the organization names, brands, etc. That's why we implement such kind of options to rebrand our organization postal name and postal website. The other thing is we have a number of social medias. We have a number of social medias and we promote our website day to day, day to day because most of people are accessible for mostly on the social media. So we have a tutor, we have an Instagram, we have Facebook, we have postal telegram account, we have a two YouTube, LinkedIn, Flickers, et cetera. We use this kind of options to promote our website domain. The other thing is redirecting previous website to the new website. Because of, as a new domain, we need to have not change our previous website immediately. So we need to have redirect for the new website. If anyone who just memorized the previous website name and when you proud on the website the website domain name will redirect for the new name. So it's also another options to promote our website. The other thing is just using Google's and search engine optimization or meta image, keywordless description with the social media I told you, we promote the website. The major achievement, what we gain from the, you think, the blog post. The other thing is branding, you know, when you implement the highly domain names with the state of art website, you will rebrand yourself for your customers, your stakeholders and anyone over the globe. So we gain the new brand with the industry domain names in company brand email address we have assured and assured digital reach to the customer. The other important thing is implemented the e-commerce. We exercise the e-commerce industry on the using e-commerce, digital e-commerce and generate revenue. Online service, online post box renewals also the other achievement and rebranding ourselves, increasing searching engine optimization site over the world, also the other branding achievement. When you can searching our website on the Google you can just find out the first list of on our website name and with our brand. The other thing is online service. As I told you that we provide e-commerce service accessibility and you can find out and you can buy the same service from Ethiopia with the digital accessibility. Online post box service also another online service achievement, online pickup applications, online job applications, online procurement applications. Every service should be digitalized on the website. So we have such kind of opportunity. To explain cyber security benefit, just a cyber security benefit in ever for us as domain validation is the first thing. Domain should be validated in central Olivia on the PTC. So they manage, they assign everything using different manuals and different policies of using dot post domain. The other thing is that diverse security policy also implemented and we have just have an actual trend with the cyber security policies. We have anti-abuse domain monitoring, day to day monitoring have on the dot post groups. The search also another opportunity where they have the search groups and day to day tracking trace on the security issue. The other thing is that skill development from the UPU. We have different kind of webinar training solutions are getting from the word the dot post domain groups. Domain compliance monitoring also real time monitoring and support. Generally, UPUs also give us a number of cyber protection for our internal services. So in the security protect you, you can just protect your website, verify domain names, protect against the denial of service attack, protect against being hacked and misproved, protect your emails, protect your customers, this kind of options and opportunities have been again from UPU dot post groups. The other thing is that acquired cyber and related opportunity on the dot post groups. And in this case, postal groups has established a learning platform which is facility training and online skills development platform. So in this case, we got some skills and different knowledge from the dot post groups. So what was the roles? What was the roles of government body and CO and IT staffs to get such website and domain? In light of the roles that the governments have given strong attention on the industry. So the PM ministers and the Visiti show posted in the last years and which is they stressed and they strongly comment on the pistolization of our service and our correct to the country level and the international level. The other thing is that when our prime minister just written a generation book, so this book is hosted on our website, only our website. So this opportunity given from prime ministers. So this kind of support we should have given from us, from our government. The other thing is that the CO support is very, very, very critical. So she was designed the digital or into the reform strategy and reorganized the IT teams and access to the international experience. So she promotes and she comments every activity of the support and the activities. So she did apply a leading role to have such kind of with her management. So the management also supports every activity to be digitalized in the dot post and other service on our customer. The IT staffs also have a great role to get such a website and the domain name and the professionals are set up on the postal digitalization is very strong. So they acquire technical skills, they develop a website to host the dot post domain. So we have the IT staff play an important role to get the dot post domain and the website including they perform the technical integration with the UQ systems admin and online technical support to date 24 seven technical support given by IT staff. So what's future plan? Hopefully you get most of the experience and the future plan. What will the future plan on the dot post including the digitalization of future post? In this case, as I told you yesterday, we need to have a digitalized our service and products on the mail services, digitalization. The mail service digitalization should be just up posted by the website and the mobile application. So on the website, we need to have used the dot post domains including parent domain and child domain. So we need to have designed to implement the dot post application on the mail service products and services. The other thing is that Harsen and MS digitalization are the another thematic area for the next futures and using this dot post and the child domain dot post. We provide digitalized and digital rental service from using the dot post domains and our website. The other thing is that as I told you that the logistic information is also another thematic issue of our business for the next three years. In this case, we need have to plan to use the moving logistic, the door to the logistic and different kind of logistic should be supported by the application and using that dot post. Implementation of application of automation. And the other thing is the stringism, the e-commerce service, the stringism e-commerce portal. In this case, we have started and we have experience around the e-commerce on our website. We should have to design separate e-commerce website to manage to accessible to more interactable for the our customer and stakeholders. So we have plan to design the e-commerce portal in the international more supported future. In the other ways that digitalized financial service, we have starting for digital financial service provider. So in this case, the poster will play an important role on the digital financial services. So in different parts to provide customers repairs to manage the e-commerce services and every activity will be just integrated to the web dot post. The other thing that the government service, as you know, most of government service have been digitalized and some government service will be just digitalized. In this case, we are the partner to just provide the service with the e-government services for the citizens. In this case, we are also using the dot post domain as one of a major role player on the next three years. In this regards, to achieve these goals, we need to have found a network infrastructure as I told you yesterday. We should have to state of art cloud based the network infrastructure implementations and application development integration is the other foundation for the next three years. The other parties, IT organization and capacity will be a very critical point for implement the thematic area. The overall, the overall terms should be forward to attend the attainment of our visions to make Ethiopian Poster the leader of postal service and the affordable, I mean, preferred partner in logistic financial and government service mission of Ethiopia, which was the end goal and we will redesign our strategy in three or five years repeatedly to get the most competitive postal service in the country and also in the world. This is all about my presentation. Thank you for your attention. Any questions? Let's discuss. Thank you very much. Thank you very much, Ibram, for that comprehensive run through of your project and the best practices and of course, how you utilize the post to deliver on those objectives. I thought this was extremely comprehensive and at the end of the day, I do think that many of the posts who are here today must find a lot of learning because it seems as if you have moved very quickly and from where we, because I remember we spoke on this, was it November last year? I believe it was November when we, you and I had spoken on your plans and since then you've delivered spectacularly and very rapidly. So I think one of the things that we could learn from you is how to do this with that great speed because it seems as if your post has made leaps and strides in doing your digital services deployment. I don't need to ask the first question today because we already have four questions waiting for us in the chat pod. So let me, did we lose Abraham? Oh no, is he there? Right, Abraham is there. Great. The first question, I think you may have answered this but perhaps you could explain maybe why you did this. What type of CMS did you use to build a website? I know you said you use WordPress. Maybe you could explain the rationale of using WordPress and maybe how you did it at your post. Over to you, Abraham. Pardon, pardon, please. I'm not sure, we didn't hear. So the first question was what type of CMS content management system you used? Yes, yes. For the website and I had said you'd answer, and I know you'd answer. Yeah, WordPress, I said WordPress. Yeah, but maybe you could expand as to why did you choose that platform? Because people choose various platforms to do this. Why WordPress? I know it's open source. I know it's the most, of course, the most popular CMS in the world. But besides those two obvious answers, is there any reason you use WordPress and where did you get the skills from to use it internally and anything? Yeah, yeah. Of course it's an open source platform content management system. Just like Drupal, Joomla, and LiveFray and other kind of open source content management system also available in the world. But we need to choose the WordPress as a very important for security, very important for using well and simple content management platform. And it will, the integration also, the open source with the licensed software. So this practical issue has, again, from selecting the content, I mean, WordPress content management system. And I mean, because I'm interested in this because there's all of the dates in the world about this CMS situation. Yes, yes. Is it working for you thus far? Are you seeing any challenges with it or has it worked well for you? It's not challenging. Until now, there is not challenge because the support is very good, critical and good. And we didn't get any challenge for implementing this open source. Great, that's good to hear. All right, there's another question coming in from Dominique Collin. Is it possible for Ethiopian consignees to pay their taxes and duties online when receiving a parcel instead of going to the nearest post office? Yeah, thank you. We have also implemented implementing such service on our website and on development on the mobile application. So we need to have integrated with the postal and the tax commission's services and systems. In this case, we plan to implement such service in the near future. Yeah, I hope that was sufficient. So if you want to have any follow-up questions, please feel free to post them based on Ibrahim's responses. Next question is from, I don't want to make sure I pronounce this correctly. Musa Venkosi, I hope that's correct. Musa Venkosi, dubay. Apologies if I mispronounced your name, but bear with me. How many international e-commerce items do you generate from your e-shop on a monthly basis? Is the service profitable when you include the cost of the e-shop platform and dot post? Oh, yeah. The statistical information will be delivered. And in this case, the postal, designated postal service organization should be changed itself using diversified service. That's the main point of our thematic objective. Because of that, we need to have implement the e-commerce service to provide to reach our customer. In this case, we exercise a number of achievements, the goods, selling goods from online selling. And we also integrate our, the postal mailing service with the e-commerce portal. So we exercise and we grab some futures and some revenue from the services. So in this case, monthly payable revenue have been just increasing the time to time, month to month. In this case, we will gain some futures and some achievement from the EU, implemented e-commerce site. All right, thank you very much. Dominique has a couple of questions now. First one, as many people don't know, I think he's trying to don't know how to read, and many people only speak Arabic and not English. What communication channels did you use to promote your website to individuals? Very critical questions. As you know, Retropia has I think above 85, local language, 85. And most of the people just speak Romifa, Amaric and Tigririna. And we also just, the second round of our development of our website should be just capable for multi-lingual system. So we work on it to multi-lingual websites in the coming years. Thank you. Dominique also asks, assuming that if your post creates various subsidiaries in the future for e-commerce, digital finance, et cetera, with specific brands, how do you plan to integrate these subsidiaries within the Ethiopian post naming process? Thanks. Very critical question. Yes. Critical question because we need to have integrate our main functional process to the Ethiopian posts. So the first thing is that you think of the child you think of the child's name domain names and the other thing is integrate each other with the integration tools to communicate each other with the support of modality of programming language. So I could actually follow up on that. So you, I believe for your shop, for your e-commerce sites, it's ethio.post slash shop, correct? Yes. Yes. But you also use what we call third-level domains. Right. So you use post office dot eth. I can't remember the one that you sent me a link the other day. I believe it was post office dot ethio.post. Yeah. Yeah. So which I guess the question would be, and I think that's kind of based on Dominique's question, which do you prefer? Do you prefer to use the third level, which is the name dot ethio.post or the directory approach, which is ethio.post slash name slash shop or slash product, which one do you prefer to use? In terms of security, the second one is a very good and just important in terms of interoperability and speed, braving speed and different options. The first one is another options. So mostly we focus and depict on the security. So the second one is slash, ethio.post slash post and etc. That's a very good answer. Actually good to know for myself as well. All right. If you have a couple of anonymous questions, I don't know if they're anonymous folks, if they don't identify themselves, but let's see what they're asking. Have you developed your website internally or did you have one or more partners to help you? And I think it's a related question. How many IT staff work within ethio.post? Yeah, to speak frankly, we have get some consultant to get more international consultant to be just here because this kind of things should be smarter and the state of art, which is a promote our brand. So we have get some consultant to just support us and we collaborate with this consultant to develop the website because the website should be more critical and will deliver our service. So we need to get some international support. So we get a simple just the expense to get such an international support. In this case, we developed the website but our internal staff also play an important part of the development and the administration of the website is still there. So now the administration has been just hand over by our internal staffs and we support everything what's like on the number of staffs is that we have I think 13 IT staff in my department with different professional experience. So we have 13, 3 all staff. And I get I've met some of your team and I could test to the fact that you're a very professional and expert team there. So it's good to see. I think just for everyone to know for the postal service it's really good to get good people in your team because as you can see, when you get good people, you get good things. So really recruit well and get some really good professional people so that you can deliver on your objectives. I think that's something that I would want to encourage all posts to take a look at on their IT.  And I think that'll help you a lot in the long run. All right. Ah, Usama Ruatabi. Difficult to pronounce Usama soon. Ruatabi from Tunisia. He is the vice chair of the DotPose group and he's here again. Thank you, Usama, for joining us. Usama is asking what program have you adopted to manage change and what I think he means, what KPIs, what key indicators have you defined to evaluate the effects of the change? Of course, it's a very interesting question. Regarding the programs, as I told you that we have designed a three years strategy to reform our services and products. So we designed a number of thematic areas to be held and implemented on the next three years. For those programs, we have also designed the KPIs. As I told you in the previous slide and the future plan, we have the e-commerce thematic area. We have the logistic thematic area. We have mainly in the partial thematic area. We have a governmental e-service area. So in these areas programs, we have also designed a key performance indicator for three years to be measured the achievement of this program. This one about our strategy for the next three years. Thank you. And Usama, I hope that answered your question. If not, feel free to post a follow-up in the Q&A part. We have an anonymous attendee again. How many ethio.post email accounts do you have? Are these for assistance or for employees? Yeah, most of the management and the middle management and the senior or professional have got their .post email account. Around 600 and 700 email accounts have been just delivered for the employees. So we review daily basis and they use for the day-to-day business transactions. Also, we implement the policy without the professional or the business email. No one using the open source email account inside the organization. So this is our policy to implement the email service. I have a follow-up question for you on that. So many of the posts who've asked us, because when you change your domain from whether you're using .com or .country code to .post, there's always a transition, right? You change from what people know to what you have now. So in your case, it'll be at ethio.post. Yes. So my question is, and this is for others who I think have the same question in this regard. How did you transition in terms of from on the email side and informing your customers, informing your other stakeholders, informing even your own employees that we have a new email address starting December 1. How many months did you give for that? You know, hand over to happen on that transition. Did you flick a switch and said it's happening today? Or did you do a gradual shift?  But what's the approach you recommend if a post wants to shift from their current domain, this current email address to a new address, utilizing dot post, I would hope. What approach would you recommend for posts to use? And there's some posts who are very small, right?  In your case, hundreds of employees. You know, you have 2,000 employees. What do you recommend? Yeah, I recommend to transition from the previous domain to the new one is just a gradual transition mechanism. Because at one time, nothing is sure will not be just implemented and most of will confused. So in this case, we implemented such kind of transition in the gradual level. And we get the dot post domain and the email address. Until that, we provide the new emails and the people should notify for their contact with you. They will use the another new websites, I mean, new email address. So in this case, we give them for one month and a half. After that, we changed our communication mechanism with the new websites until one and a half months. We tolerate the management that they're professional to use the previous email address. And they will should have to notify for their communication their colleagues to change his email address in the new post domain name. That's that's that's a good advice, Abraham. Do you use on-premise email or are you using cloud email? And what would you recommend to post it?  You have, you know, same addresses. Of course, on the cloud service, you know, you pay, you know, X dollars per month per year and so on, on-premise, its own challenges. Which would you recommend for maybe for, let's say, about your large post? Would you recommend this versus the other? Like, or would you watch your thoughts on email and how it works, especially in 2023? Cloud email and privacy email. So, well, let's depend on the infrastructure capability of the organization. That's the main critical point. If an organization will have a grant, then state of art, which is the state of art, the data centers, the state of art, the infrastructures, and etc. If you have such kind of facility, I recommend the emails and purposes on this infrastructure. But the cost of this infrastructure also very high. So the professional needs, it needs more professionalized or just capability. So if you don't have such kind of options, I recommend the cloud-based email address services. So cloud-based email address services will just manage by the vendor and they will provide you the account and you can only manage to the account management, the security, the other things. Everything's will just cover the buyer, the provider, and you're only responsible for the atmosphere and manage the email address. That's a point. Good. I think I get very good advice again. I think from your well-positioned to give that advice. And I have a follow-up question on this. So another question we often get and try to give advice on. So there is a view, I guess, especially from younger IT managers, younger IT directors, younger CIOs. Email is going away. Why email, right? So one of the things I respond to that with is that email is in fact the last interoperable application. In fact, it's probably the only real interoperable application on the internet. It works everywhere. Email works. It just works. As opposed to messaging. But there's a view that email will be replaced by messaging. So whether using Teams or using Slack or using, you know, without naming any more products, you know what I'm saying? Do you think that email is going away from where you sit? Do you see email disappearing? Will email remain in the future? And in an environment? So if, yes or no. And an environment where email is still around, assuming it is. How do you see messaging working? At this, you know, so for example, if you are using email for one set of functions, you know, sending, I guess, important information to third parties, would you use email for internal only or external? Or with messaging, you think become the new method of communicating internally or externally? What are your thoughts on that? And how would that, that's actually interesting for us in dot post as well. Should we offer messaging service? You know, maybe something that could be shared by the post, you know, messaging each other or offer a dot post email service, shared email service. What are your thoughts on that as someone who has been in this business for some time and seeing the future, especially in a large country where you have different types of literacies, you know, messaging is, you know, people use WhatsApp and so on. Where do you see it happening in business? Messaging or email? Okay. Thank you very much. When you come to the messaging, there are a number of tools that have a value for messaging services. This case, when we just set as organizations, the email is a formal communication way, the formal communication way, because email just have a very great future to communicate each other in formally way. The, as an organization, the email service does not be disappeared in the near future. It's a very important tool for our communication mechanism. In this case, just we use the email for internal as well as the external communication mechanism. So, gradually, maybe the technology will be applied in the near future, maybe, maybe. I don't recommend just leave the emails communication with the future, because emails have a very great future to communicate once organization to the others, through the other blobs. Without the emails, we can't just assure this organization is the very designated postal unions or, I mean, the designated postal organizations or postal show, just office. These emails that come from the person, we can't just differentiate each email. So, in this case, when someone send a message from his mobile, this message comes from the personal one, not the organization. It's not just nominate the organization's name. So, emails should be just forwarded to the futures without any interruptions. I just imagine that. Yes, yes, I think, again, it's becoming a debate, I think, in this industry, I think it hit a nail on the head because of the inability of some messaging services to differentiate between personal and professional. It's hasn't arrived as yet where you can really clearly say that, because most of the base that you send on phone numbers, you can clearly state that this is coming from the professional or the corporation environment as opposed to your personal environment. So, I think that the, you know, of course, teams and similar services are trying to shift you, but interestingly, they're linked to your email. So, it can't get away from it. Your email generates the messaging environment. That's how you identify yourself there. While we were chatting, we actually got two more questions coming in, actually based on the email question, but I think you answered that, but I'll get to that shortly. But the first question is coming from Eub, who's asking, is there an API to integrate delivery through your service? So, I think he's maybe asking if you have any straight-through delivery transactional process. So, when you get an order, I guess, maybe you can directly move that through the supply chain. Is that something you have currently? Yeah, yeah. We have an API service to integrate the other party systems. Eub can communicate our marketing department for his service, and we will just avail what he wants. So, don't worry about that. We will provide you for your service. All right. So, Thabo, I think he answers already, but I'm just going to ask the question. Have you migrated your emails to that post? And if not, when do you plan to do that? And I think I know the answer to that question, but I'll leave you to answer the question. So, he's asking, have you migrated your emails to that post? And if not, when do you plan to do that? Yes. Yes, of course. Yes, you've migrated already. And you said, I think that's 600 or 700 accounts on that post, so I think Thabo may have missed that. So, just Thabo, I could attest that because I've gotten, I'm emailing Ibrahim on ethiodotpost, right? As you speak. So, I could tell you it's working. It's working very well indeed. So, they have migrated to that post, yes. Yeah. Another question has come in. Um, Chewadros, how do you see the future of postal service and print media? It's an interesting question. Yeah, very critical questions. As I explained previously, the postal service have been get the century, which is 100 years and above. But they are capable for the environment day to day change to the by diversifying its services. So, don't worry about that. The postal service will go in the futures without any interruption because we diversified our services and products to be competitive with the market. So, the postal service will go in the future without any interruption. All right. Thank you. Paul Dono just put a question in the chat. I think Paul's asking a question to me. How can I get a dot post email system for my organization? So, Paul, for those who don't know Paul, for those who know many actually know Paul, Paul was in charge of dot post before. He was my boss. Just when I joined and now he's moved to higher heights. So, thank you Paul for that question. And that leads me to, I guess, as we can wrap up today's session by saying a couple of things. One, at present to get information on dot post, and may some will put that in the chat going forward, email us at secretariat at info dot post and to visit our sites at info dot post. H-E-T-P-S colon backslash backslash info i-n-f-o dot post. May some will put that in the chat shortly to get more information about what you can do and how to get information about getting your dot post domain and other services. But just a sneak preview and Ibrahim actually presented on this both yesterday and today we are in the process of rolling out a shared services platform. We're currently in the final testing stages of that platform. So that's good news for those who have been asking about it. I don't have a lot of post lining up waiting for us to get this live. So very shortly we will be able to offer all posts who are interested an online environment where you can not only get a dot post domain but also purchase an email, website hosting, DNS services, certificates, even our website building service, and also things like a CMS. You'll get CMS if you want to go that level. So we'll give you both, you will get both a standard website builder similar to what you might see on a Weebly or site.google something like that. Or if you want to go into the more professional approach, you can get Joomla WordPress as well and have the APIs available to plug in e-commerce into that environment. That's coming very soon. I can't give a date just precisely yet but feel free to contact us because I've been authorized to see a Q4, Q4 2023, which is right on our doorstep. It will be available and live to all posts. So keep your eyes and ears open. You'll be ready to roll that out very shortly and you'll have access to those services at a cost. And in the meantime, we've actually gotten two more questions. Osama, the vice chair of the post group, he's asking, what do you think about the creation? Oh, he's asking me this, I guess. About the creation of mobile applications still by the post group. And Osama, you're speaking my mind, as they say. That is exactly our plan. We are hoping to work with all of our potential partners, associate members, the consultant committee has already approached us on things like this to build out, you know, the app stores may be a strong word. I will call this a marketplace, you know. It looks like an app store, yes. It looks something like that, where we will be able to provide posts with access to vetted and validated applications from the postal sector, the private sector, who offer these services, as well as, for example, even if your post develops an application or API, they can put it there as well. So I believe that is something that will come. Once we get our, you know, we want to creep before we walk. So let's do the walk, the creeping first, and then we'll walk that talk very shortly. Hopefully in 2024, or four things go well. And Terodorus has asked, post offices are traditionally center of communities. How does, if your posts take that role?  And again, Ethiopia is a very large country and vast in terms of its reach. Do you see the post offices being the center of communities? And I guess if so, how would that work in your mind, do you see it as- Yeah, yeah, that's a good question again. Most of our organizations has starting to renovate itself to be more attractive, more just beautiful for the customer and working environment. So as you will see when you come to Ethiopia, we renovate our office. So whether it will be great and more attractable for our customer. So Terodorus will have access to visit us. You can visit our headquarter and some of our office. We renovated the service organizations and service offices, branches, and we'll also renovate other post office physically. Also, not only the providing the post, traditional post services, but also as I told you that the diversified service have been implemented in different branches. So you can access different service from the postal branches over the country. So don't be worried about the traditional service. It's a way we renovate ourselves and that we provide for our customer as a diversified service provider now from the past five years ago. All right, thank you very much. And that was an excellent answer as well. I think we've exhausted all of the questions now. So I think, yeah, we can begin the wrap up now. So just like to thank everyone for your engagement and participation. You've had 15 questions written there. That's a lot of questions. So very, very good engagement. I really appreciate your thoughts and your inputs. Abraham, thank you so much for working with us on this. If you post that again, we visited so I can really vouch for the fact that you guys are brilliant in what you're doing. And a really good example for all the post offices in the world. You know, to really take the ball by the horns and do exactly what we are saying you can do. You can do it, it's not something that you need to just sit and talk about. You can do it. These guys said they're going to do it and they did it. Very, very possible. And it was very, at my view, very quick and very professional. So a very good example for others. Feel free to contact Abraham for more information. Maybe Abraham, you could put your contact in the chat if you wish to do so. And let us know how we could help you as well. As I said, we are just about to launch our shared services platform, which will be able to provide a lot of what Abraham has been deploying in your cases as well. So you'll be able to work on that on your own and have your validated, you know, we secure postal services deployed at, I will say, reasonable costs. So look out for that coming very, very soon in this next few months before the end of 2023. And I can tell you that for a fact, because I've been testing the technology already, so I know it's there. It's just in the final stages of closing that off and having all the documentation put together for you to access those services. So look out for that very soon. So I'd like to thank everyone once again. Thank you, Lisa, my colleague who has been in the background doing all of the logistics and the work. Thank you, Lisa. And she has put the contact information for us in the chat. I'm seeing some good comments coming in. Thank you, colleagues, for putting your good wishes and good comments. And thank you very much. And look out for, is there another question coming in? Or there's Osama saying thank you. Congratulations, Siddhi, to your post. Thank you, thank you, thank you. And look out for another webinar in our series coming up in October. We're going to be revisiting our ransomware topic. So in October, we plan to have two practitioners of, let's just say, of how to actually execute a ransomware attack and how you can combat it. And we're going to have a live demonstration of that coming up in October. So you'll get that information in your inboxes very soon. So look out for that. Thank you once again for joining us today. And appreciate your time. And energy. And your participation. So then, bye-bye. Bye-bye. Thank you.