Hi, welcome to ATAB Online, a virtual reading series presented by the Asian American Theater Artist of Boston. My name is Makayla Way, and I'm the associate producer and dramaturg for ATAB Online. ATAB is a social collective that seeks to empower and connect Asian American, Pacific Islander American, MENA American, and Kanaka Maoli Theater Artist in the greater Boston area. We've gathered theater artists from the ATAB community, the Boston Theater community, and friends across the country to explore plays by Boston-based American Asian playwrights to present here on Zoom, Facebook Live, and HowlRoundTV. Today, you're seeing a reading of Holistic Review written by Nelson New and directed by Rosalind Bevin. For this reading, we would like to amplify the Ochre Project, a collective that seeks to address the global crisis faced by Black trans people by providing home-cooked, healthy, and culturally specific meals, resources, and most recently, access to free therapy sessions to Black trans people. And the Boston Art and Music Soul Fest, a nonprofit organization that celebrates and supports both artists and audiences with an emphasis on Afro-dysporic voices, perspective, and artistry, and break down racial and social barriers to arts, music, and culture across greater Boston through their annual festival, signature events, strategic partners, and strategic partnerships. Depending on where you're watching us from, there are links to donate to their organizations on the pages or in the comments. And if you want to learn more info about ATAP, we're on Facebook and Instagram at A-A-T-A Boston. And now, a Holistic Review. Language. He's still gonna be here tomorrow, right? What did you forget this time? Nothing. Casey. How'd you know? I always know. You think you're so clever. All right. I left the interview questions on the printer. Happy? Why would that make me happy? Go get them. No, not the printer here, the one at home. Why are you always forgetting something? I swear, I put it in my backpack. Last week, I asked you to take out the trash and you forgot to close the garage door. That is exactly why I didn't want to tell you. I knew you'd bring that up. You left your phone at the Grand Canyon Visitor Center. Brand new phone, but you just forgot. That was four years ago. I was 12. So now I always ask you before you leave somewhere. Can't we just do this tomorrow? Double check that you have everything and you still forget. First thing when we get back, I'll put the questions in my backpack. And then tomorrow, I can- Do you know why you still forget? Because you don't care. I'm trying to care, all right? At least this time, I'm here. And will cares. But you don't even care enough to prepare. I was prepared. I had the questions ready. I typed them all up. Don't you remember them? They were like 20-something questions. You can't expect me to just- So forgetful. Tomorrow. Okay, just give me one more day. I'll have the questions. Are they online? No, they're on my laptop. Why didn't you bring your laptop? I didn't think I'd need it. I was just gonna- How will you plan it on taking notes? I've got a notebook. I prefer taking notes by hand. I think it's more natural for an interview. If you actually had your interview questions. Which is why I want to do this tomorrow. When I'll have the questions. Why didn't you pick them online? I made a Google Drive for you. I know. I saw it. And you shared it with me about 50 times. Why didn't you put the questions into the Google Drive? What do you do things the way I asked you to?  It's ugly. The layout's ugly. The fonts are all ugly. It's distracting when you're trying to write anything meaningful in there. I prefer pages. I can think so much more. I can think so much more clearly. Well, that doesn't seem to be doing you a whole lot of good now, does it? God, why do you pick apart everything I try? Why do I always have to do things your way? Where do you think you'd be if you didn't? Oh, I'm sorry, Maggie. It's bad. Should I? It's all right, Will. It's just that Cassie isn't quite as ready today as we would have hoped. Oh, if that's the case, then maybe we can do this another time. Exactly. That's what I was saying. I mean, I'm teaching here all summer, right? When do you need the spy? The deadline for the essay is this Friday. She needs to get the interview done as soon as possible so she can start writing. I thought she had already started on it a month ago. I told you I couldn't find anyone I wanted to interview and then I had to study for my final. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. This is usual. She's left it to the last minute. I see. No, I get it. Finals are rough. You just got out of what? South Maria. Ah, so this is for the Nathan Chung contest, isn't it? You've heard of it. Yeah. I actually am. Well, I like, I helped organize it the first year. Is that why you picked in? No. I picked Will because he goes to Princeton. And I think you could learn a thing or two from him. Yeah. Hey, Cassie. Hi. Unfortunately, Cassie forgot to bring the interview questions that she had prepared for you. So she'll just have to make it up that she goes along. Mother. That's okay. We'll figure out together. If you need me to, I can provide the questions as well as the answers.  I just know I could always trust you to make things work. Good luck with her. That was awkward. I'm sorry. You're not sorry.  And she made in front of both of us a remark, obviously to that effect. It's okay. She's probably right. And I'm used to it. Hey, I don't really think I'm better than you or anything. I don't think I'm better than you. Yeah. But my mother does and that apparently is what matters. That's why you're here. She thinks if she puts you in the same room as me, I'll become more like you through osmosis or something. I'm not here to turn you into me. I'm just here to. Are you saying I could never be like you?   The best version of you there is. I'm not here to turn you into me. I'm not here to turn you into me.  Maybe a bit of motivation is just what you need. So your great advice is be yourself. Well, I do. I see him like the sort of person who needs to hear that. I suppose not. You're already once I've had the game then. I'm sure my mother would beg to differ. She thinks it's a liability. The fact that I'm me.  Trust me. I'm really nothing special. Then why does my mother want me to interview you? I mean, I heard I wasn't even her first choice. Originally it was going to be this hot shot real estate of Esther out in San Francisco.  But then she flaked on me. I was kind of expecting it. But I don't know. I don't know. I don't know if there's old recruits seem to want to come back here. I don't blame them. Who'd want to come back to Cupertino?  I came back. Yeah. You're weird. Maybe that's a good thing. Weirdness seems like the sort of quality you'd want an interview subject. You seem to overestimate how much I actually care about the sixth annual Nathan Chung Memorial essay contest. I've been doing it for the past few years, you know. So my mother keeps telling me. It was her idea. You know, after Nathan. To honor him. He was one of her students and teachers too. Great writer. Your mother's counseled hundreds of us. She knows what she's doing. Oh yes. She started all very, she's all, she's thought it all through very nicely. It's all just deployed to make sure I haven't gotten an empty bag of my college apps. She realized quite early on, I'm no good at math competitions. That's your area of expertise, isn't it? Yeah. And I actually believe that anyone with the right attitude and resources. Yeah. The programming contest didn't work out either. I hated chemistry. Biology was too much. I was actually halfway decent at volleyball, but she didn't think that they'd make me stand out enough, whatever that means by land. Now that was a disaster. I'm sorry. You're not. Your mom must think you're good at writing, at least if this essay contest is what she suggested for you. A couple of As in my lit classes aren't going to win me any medals. But she's still holding out hope I'm good at something presentable. Who says you're not. You just don't give up to you. Neither should you. Doesn't seem like you're giving me much of a choice. Come on. It could be fun. Okay, forget the competition. You think I'm weird, right? Why don't you find out just how weird I am. The promise you'll answer me honestly. Sure. I mean it.  I promise. I also have my, I still don't have my interview questions though. Then we'll figure them out together. What does the prompt us for. I'll give you an immigrant blah, blah, blah. And describe the challenges they had faced their successes and, or their hopes for the future. You memorize that. Yeah, my mother made me reread it about a hundred times. But you don't remember any of your interview questions. Okay, okay. Maybe I remember a few. I mean, they're all just based off the promise. Then go for it. Let's start with the facts, I guess. How old were you when you moved here? Just about to turn six. What was the biggest obstacle you faced when you first got here in. School or whatever. Can I make a suggestion? What? Nobody wants to read about elementary school drama. It's inherently childish. I mean, I don't know. Ask me about high school. Fine. I guess that makes sense. High school. So when you do math contests or other science contests, like I did your high school classes and teachers are probably not going to tell you how to do them. I mean, I'm sure you know this, you've tried them, right? I had to look for resources outside of the classroom to help me learn more and practice. Even though there's a lot out there, it's not always the most organized and there isn't any roadmap to guide you. You have to learn yourself how to sort out the good textbooks and programs from the bad ones to piece together your own plan.  I'm sorry. I'm sorry.  That was your greatest obstacle. You couldn't learn enough. Please. Well, it's a little more subtle than that. My mother really did a number on you. Didn't she? That, that was a genuine answer. I really think. Your parents must be so proud.  No, you've got it the wrong way around. I'm just lucky enough that I. I think she was the same thing my parents wanted for me. How utterly convenient for you. It's not really as unlikely as you think.  If you keep an open mind, you might find a lot of common ground with everyone. Why do I even bother? I should have known my mother's hand-picked interview. We would be just another one of her stooches. Nice try.  Yeah, it's basically just BFS. Duh. I know it doesn't look like a graph right away, but you know, once you see that sort of thing enough. Have you explained it enough? You get used to it. I better. These other interns are so intense. They've each got a bajillion projects under their belts. Sounds like high school. You'll show them, Nick. You always do. You're the toughest cookie. I know. I know. I know. And DFS works too, though, but I know you prefer BFS.   What? Nevermind. Just trying to be funny. Dark. I'll take that as a compliment. You seem a little more chipper. What, then before? Yeah. You have that look on your face. What look? The one you get when you don't like what somebody said about you. I've got an, I don't like what somebody said about me. Don't worry. It's not that obvious. I only notice it because. You do it a lot when I'm around. I like what you say about me. Generally.  Hey, I do best with what I've got. There's that look again. Sometimes I think you're more interested in how I'm feeling than I am. Of course. You're my boyfriend. In case you haven't noticed, I find everything about you terribly fascinating. Don't worry about me. I've got it covered. Come on. What is it? Rowdy students, parents not happy with you. Where'd you get that idea? All the stories I've heard about the parents here in the Bay Area, they seem like a handful. I know how to keep them happy. Don't get me wrong. Your parents are super chill. You haven't even met my dad yet. Okay. Well, your mom is. I suppose my dad is too. He mostly just like soaking around. When does he get back from China? Sometime next week. What's wrong? You know, I've never introduced him to a boy before. You know, I don't know if it's like that with your mom too. Yeah, but it's. Different with dads, you know. Totally. Well, let me know if there's anything I can do to make it easier. If you want to. Talk about it at all. Sure. I think for now, though, I just want to focus on my work. You know. Oh. Yeah. For sure. Thanks. Of course. Hey, are we still good to go out for breakfast tomorrow? Yeah. Well, it's just. I'm sorry. I don't realize. I'll find somewhere else though. Don't worry. No, it's not that it's just. I thought maybe you'd want to sleep in instead. You've been seeming really out of it lately. Have I? I suppose I've just got a lot going on. Aren't you teaching two classes now? What would the students your mom found you? Pretty much. And now this interview thing. I can handle it, Nick. Oh, no, I didn't mean you couldn't. The interview is probably not going to pan out anyway. This is for that essay contest, right? The one named after the kid you knew. Well, I barely knew him. I had only met him a handful of times. I'm surprised you remember. Hard to forget that sort of thing. Anyway, I didn't go so hot today. Cassie seems. Just interested to say the least.  Is it. I feel bad just giving up on her like that. I mean, she's Maggie's daughter and Maggie's done so much for me. You've done a lot for her. I've been doing a lot for her possibly too much already. You're probably right. You know me, I'm too used to being busy. Yeah, I know. I just want to make sure you're doing okay. Do you feel like something's the matter with me? I mean, I wasn't going to put it like that. I'm sorry I haven't been at my best around you these past few days. Oh, no, don't worry. It's not about you and me. No, I know, I, I told you I was excited to spend time with you over the summer to show you where I grew up, but instead I just come home every day and work. It's okay. Well, I get it. I'm sure it's easy to get like that around here where everyone expects so much from you. I think I just expect a lot from myself. Not just you though, the whole. The whole virtual dynamic here. What do you mean? The other interns I met today. Freak me out. All they were talking about was other internships they'd done apps they built or business programs they'd attended or the new VP of finance or the latest news and big data or what have you. That's not me though. No. I've never really liked that crowd either. I'm spending my summer teaching high schoolers. I know I just. If anything, Nick, you're the one with the internship. Look, I'm not saying that's what you are. Yeah, it's just. This attitude. All of this seems really weird to me. It's not the kind of environment I'm used to. Or the kind that I'd even want for us. I know you didn't have the best first day. Even at your tutoring center. That's my work. I'm sorry. That's not what I meant. What did you mean? When I went to pick you up. I saw those students there. High schoolers, even middle schoolers learning Java or. Olympiad physics or. AP human geography. I didn't even know that was a thing until today. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. Summer break. These kids should be having fun. Not stuck inside with textbooks all day. You know, it's not that simple. Why can't it be? It's our summer break too. And look what we're up to. That's what I mean. This. This incessant need to always be doing something to always be. Striving towards something. Never letting yourself take a break. It's already bad enough at Princeton, but here it seems like even the preteens feel that way. Just what I've seen. It seems like a lot for these kids.   I feel like that's what's really bothering you here though. Not just that. I told you I'm worried for you too. I feel like. That's why you're so tired all the time. I think it was worth it. Growing up in a place like this. It was stressful, but there's always going to be a little stress when you're trying to do something remarkable. I just had to learn how to channel that stress into something positive. Why are we expecting the remarkable from high schoolers? The stress shouldn't have to be a normal part of life for a teenager. Weren't you ever stressed out in high school? Not nearly as much as I am nowadays. Kids shouldn't have to deal with that yet. There's enough of it to come. How will they be prepared for that then when it does come? Can't spend every day of your life preparing for the next one. That's hardly a life at all.  I'm sorry that was harsh. This isn't a cultural thing. I wasn't even going to take it there. You didn't have to. You're the one who took it there. I would have said that no matter what, you know, cultural background your student came from. That's exactly the problem, Nick. Different backgrounds, different circumstances. They necessitate different solutions. You can't bring your white boy from Washington world view down here and expect an Asian family from Cupertino to lap on us. You're not allowed to have an opinion on this then? You always get so defensive when we talk about stuff like this. I just, I don't want to seem insensitive. I don't want to be a white guy. You're going to say things like that sometimes. As long as you learn from it, it's, it's fine. You didn't let me finish. Okay. What? If this had nothing to do with me, I'd get it. I'd be overstepping, but it's not like I haven't got a stake in this. There is a non negligible chance. I'm going to get a job here and that I'm going to end up living here. That's true. And this is where you're from. It is. And I care about you. I love you. I love you too. Those other interns. Don't worry about them. It's the first day. I met my fair share of that type. I know it might not seem like it, but. Shockingly, they're human too. That's where all that talk is coming from. They're just as insecure as all the rest of us.  I feel like that'd be frowned upon in a locked environment. The students are going through a lot. Yes. Their parents are pushing them harder than ever because they're worried they're not going to get into the colleges they want them to. But that's why I'm here to assuage their worries to try to make the classes as fun as possible. To show the students I'm on their side. And I know you certainly have a lot of faith in your own teaching ability. I can't teach all of them, of course. But trust me. I do what I can for the students I've got. I'm looking out for these kids. If you say so. I do. What about you? What about me? I was looking out for you. What about yesterday? I don't think it's going to work out with me and Cassie. Oh. I'm really sorry. It's not your fault. I wouldn't say it's Cassie's either. No. It's mine, isn't it? Oh, no, not at all. I wouldn't blame you for thinking so. You're not a parent. I've still got a lot to learn. In my mind.  You two don't grow up faster than I could ever keep track. Sorry. We can't help it. When Cassie was 10. She told me I was a favorite person in the whole world. That's really sweet. Then she started middle school and everything changed. Middle school stuff. I don't have to be a favorite person in the world. I don't even care about that. I just want to be reassured to know for certain that she'll be okay. But all I see in front of Cassie is a big, bold question mark. Laughing at me. Taunting me. You're scared. Who wouldn't be? Were you ever scared for me? Of course I was. You didn't start studying for the SAT until the day before the test. You almost gave me a heart attack. Oh yeah. Sorry about that. I could highly sleep until the results came out. But you insisted that I had no reason to worry. Sure enough. Three weeks later. There it was. A 2400. Even when I was afraid for you. You always managed to prove me wrong. You were Cassie's age back then. Just heading into 11th grade. Yeah. Junior year was intense. I was taking a push in AP Lang and AP Physics C and AP stats. You always worked so hard. Cassie doesn't know the meaning of hard work. And you want someone to set an example for her. Any parent would. I get it. I just. I don't know if I can be that example. But all your students love you. And he never shuts up about that talk you gave with the cake. I'm pretty sure Cassie hates me though. I think she might actively be trying to hate me. If you brought her in again, I wouldn't even know where to start. Well, you might have done something right. What? Cassie would like to give the interview another shot. She told me she was over all this. You can ask her yourself. She's waiting right outside. I guess she must have changed her mind. See. I knew you would get through to Cassie. It's why I wanted you to talk to her in the first place. I thought. Didn't you ask the real estate investor. A diversionary tactic. I could get you to agree. It was always going to be you. Out of all my teachers. You've always been the one I trust the most. Then the interview. It's really just an excuse for me to talk to her. Oh no. The contest is important too. You understand, don't you. Cassie called it a ploy. She's always so cynical. It's a contest. It's for her own good. It's a chance for her to prove herself. Believe me. I wish it didn't have to be this way. I know that she is smart. My Cassie. Maybe not as smart as you. Oh no, don't, don't say that. She is bright. And yet. How will anyone know how bright she is. If she has nothing to show for it. That's what Cassie's writing. It's truly very good. I bet. She never lets me see most of it, of course, but what I do have. I should show you. It almost reminds me of some of Nathan's work. That good, huh? I wish I could just march up to the mission officers, shove it into their faces. I can't. That's what the contest is for. It's not about the contest. It's about acquiring something tangible. Something concrete. Something that will show them what I already know that Cassie has. I know how special she is. I just need other people to see it too. Or else her talents go to waste. Understood. You can trust me. I'll send her your way. Thank you. I have a few questions this time. I told my mother I'd have them today. I even printed out the prompt from the contest website. Do you ever teach with this Nathan guy? Yeah, we had different trips. But I still remember when my mom told me he passed away. He was very sudden. She didn't know I knew him. I thought my mother was the only one who told everyone he died. She put his photo up real big and everything.  It was like he was staring me down every time I came in here. Like I said, she wanted to honor him. But this interviews about you. Great. And I've thought it over. There might be more to you than what I gave you credit for. There's gotta be. You can't possibly be as picture perfect as you made yourself out to be yesterday. Well, I don't care how you present yourself. I want to find out who you really are. Then I'll have something to write about. What's the laptop for? Oh, sorry, don't mind this. I want to know. Consider it my first interview question. Well, I realized I might have expressed myself badly yesterday. Sorry about that, by the way. So I thought maybe I should just type of my thoughts instead. And then I'm going to email it to you and you can mold it into whatever you need it. You thought you could write my essay for me? No, not at all. I just thought perhaps I could explain my experiences to you more clearly in writing. No, thanks. Letting you write your own story would be too easy.  Fair enough. I'm going to ask a question. I'm going to ask a question. Ask away. Did your parents ever shout at you? Oh, yes. About what? One time when I was maybe like eight years old, I had a friend over and her mom brought me and my parents a banana cream cake. I complained. I didn't like banana. Later, my dad told me off for being rude. And I yelled back, how was I supposed to know I was being rude? You know, it was like expecting me to ace a test when nobody had taught me the material. It was only later that I realized that's why he had to call me out in the first place. He wanted to make sure I learned that gifts themselves are unimportant. It's the intention behind the gift that you have to be grateful for.  I got more of those if you'd like. God, you're infuriating. Sorry. Maybe you could try asking something else. What's something you enjoy that your parents can't stand? Pork. What?  But I really like it. Okay. How has that affected your relationship? See, even though she won't eat pork, she's still really good at making things with pork in them. That baffled me for a while. How was she so good at making a dish that she herself had never tasted before? Eventually, I realized that it was her love for me. Her utter selflessness that led her to toil away at something she would never eat. It's kind of a Chinese thing. As a culture, we express our love not just with words, but with our actions, our diligence, dedication. So every day I try to follow my mom's example. I'm always on the lookout for the needs of others beyond my own and do the best I can do to help. Oh, thank God.  Look, Cassie, I can feel my stomach actively working against me. If you're going to interview someone, you got to be prepared to hear the answers. Even if the mind pork. In fact, especially if they don't line up with your preconceptions. Why are all your cause, your stories about food anyway? I don't know. I like food, I suppose. Have you ever thought about running away from home? No, not really.  I can't say I've ever felt that urge. What about just sneaking out of the house? Never. You haven't ever made your parents worry where you were. Not that I can remember. Not even once. Why don't we move on to a different question? Just humor me for a moment, won't you? Where are you going with this? You know what would happen if I went missing? My mother would freak in that freakish way of hers, and she'd frantically attempt to find me. Cassie, I think the first person she'd call would be the mother of my friend, Sydney. I've established this empirically, you see? Hang on. I wonder, hypothetically, if you've gone missing back in your high school days, what would be the first person your parents would call? Mother, will you come in here for a second? Okay, okay, look. I'm sorry, I wasn't thinking.   That was a personal... I thought you were still talking about running away from home. I didn't think that also included... Chinese parents love to gossip about other people's children. Always trying to make up some lesson about it, you know? My mother's told me all about your little midnight escapades sneaking out of the house to hook up with some dude in Jollyman Park. I'm not talking about this, Cassie.  How do your parents feel about you dating him? Look, let's talk about something else. You haven't prepared your answer for that one? That's what you had pulled up on your laptop there, wasn't it? A bunch of anecdotes you'd already written up, all clean and tidy for me to hear? Why are you so mad at me?  I'm not. Look, I...  Cassie. I thought maybe... You were just neck deep in denial. I thought maybe, just maybe I could ring out a little bit of truth in you.  But I am a human being. What I'm saying, what's coming out of my mouth, that's me talking. It comes from me. That's what I really mean. It's not what you wanted to hear, but... No, it's what you want me to hear. It's the truth. I'm not trying to hide anything from you or trick you or lie to you or anything like that. I just didn't want to go into private stuff. Yeah, you're all just about the public side, aren't you? Don't think you can fool me. I see how it is. You have zero interest in helping me. You just want to preserve your cute little nice guy image. My God. If you can't appreciate my help, I don't...  What? Worse than all this?  She still thinks that you're better than me. I don't know why you keep saying that. I don't know why you keep denying it. But that's a wrong attitude. It's toxic. That's exactly what I... You're right. It is toxic. Thank you. She almost had me believing it, but with the looks she kept giving me, those passive aggressive remarks. She goes to Princeton, she said. I think you could learn a thing or two from him, she said.  All parents do it. They say things you can't take it to heart. You can't let them get to you. And I won't. Not anymore. Because she's wrong and you're not better than me. You're right. I'm not. That's why I... You only think that because you know how to hide it better. That's not... No, that's not... Because you've taken yourself, taken your soul, rolled it into a tight little ball, and stuffed it where nobody can find it. What does that even mean? You've taken your body and rubbed it and molded it and scrubbed it clean until it was exactly what your parents wanted to see. What my mother wanted to see. What your teachers wanted to see. No. The counselors and the Princeton admissions office wanted to see. It was what I wanted to see. It's what you had to see. It's what you needed to see. Because that's all you know how to do. I wonder what you're like when you're on your own because you'd never let anyone see that. Would you, Mr. Private Stuff? No, you're twisting my words. I resent that. Oh, really? I let you interview me, didn't I? Hardly. Obviously, I'm not gonna, I'm not gonna tell you everything. Oh, obviously. Silly me. How could I possibly have thought you'd let me in? I bet you never let anyone in. I let people in. I have a boyfriend. I have friends I tell things to. But it's never everything, is it?   No. You know what I think they'd find? A completely different person living in your skin. A person you've tied up with rope and held captive in the basement somewhere in the dark recesses of your mind. There's not some secret other me. I don't know why you keep saying that.   But you're wrong. It's not worth it.   A coward. A fake. We're done here. Where's she going? Will, what's wrong? I'm sorry, Maggie. Where are you going? Will? Cassie, get back in here. What's going on? I suffered a major disappointment. Good. You can get a taste of what that feels like for once. What did you do? Why do you always think I'm the one who did something? This is all Will's fault. Actually, no, you know what? This is on you.   Don't talk to me like that. Fine. No worries. I'll get out of your way. What? You heard me. I'm getting out of here. Where do you plan to go? I'm going to get out of here. Have you thought any of that through? Of course not. It's like you always tell me I never think anything through. Well, if you only bothered to try. You know, I tried to think this through this interview.  You call that trying? What am I supposed to say to Will now?  I thought I could. I really did. I thought just maybe there was a chance I could make this work and I could turn this into something for me, not something, something that I want to strive for, not just whatever you want for me. I only ever want the best for you.  You don't have any other option. That's a lie. And maybe you've deluded yourself into believing it, but I'm not going to let you infect me with it anymore. You haven't the faintest idea what's out there. No, because I've been stuck here all my life. Oh, and you're going to move somewhere else now. Is that right? Yeah, that's right. You wouldn't even know where to go. You got a C minus and middle school geography. Remember? Anywhere is better than here. And how do you think you'll feed yourself? I'll figure something out. You don't even know how to cook because you never help out in the kitchen when I asked you to. You don't even know how to cook, clean up after yourself. You always do this. You always start dredging everything up.  The world will not wait for your messes. That is not how it works. Oh yeah, how does it work then? You'd know if you ever listened to me. See, I don't think you know either. No one here does.   Oh, please.   He knows it's your brainwashing.  And you're all like that.  But I'm not buying it anymore. What do you think you're doing? What do you think you're going? Cassie. Cassie. Is everything okay? Are you just sitting here? My bad. That's not what I meant. I mean, what happened? Nothing happened. Don't worry about it. I just wasn't expecting you. I wanted to surprise you. What's wrong? Talk to me. Why do you always think something's wrong? I don't always think something's wrong. I'm just worried about you. Frankly, you look kind of awful. I'm just worried about you. Wow. Hey, you're always on my case about how I look. What kind of faces I'm giving you, but do you mind? Could you just maybe look the other way for a moment and trust me on this one? Please, babe. You know, you're not as good of an actor as you think. What does that even mean? I'm not acting. Seriously? I'm not. I've been nothing but honest to you. I promise. Really? Is that what you think? No. Please, if there's anything I did wrong, if you feel like I haven't been honest at all, or look, I can fix it. You can trust me. I don't want to fix you, Will. No, I'm not saying you have to fix me. I just, I'll fix myself. I'll do the fixing. Come on. You know me. I can fix anything. I just want you to be okay. How's that different from fixing me? It's just, I think it's something about this town. You know, it's not you, like not entirely, but it brings out something in you. What are you talking about? Look, maybe we should, it's almost the weekend. We could just get out of here for a couple of days. Oh. Yeah. It's not me you want to fix. It's this town. I mean, maybe. All right, then. How are you going to fix it? I don't, Will, come on. You know, I'm genuinely curious. How are you planning on fixing this? You're stressed out. I can tell. Stress. Wait. That's what you want to get rid of. I mean, why wouldn't I just gather up all that stress and chuck it down the garbage. Well, I don't know.  I didn't. You don't know anything about these kids. You don't know what they have to go through. I don't. But I do. This is my home. Okay. These are my students in my town. I know how they tick. I've been teaching for nine years. How old were you when you started that? I was a child. I was a kid at the time. It was just grooming.  You haven't got a clue what you're talking about. I know what you told me. You said you knew what you were doing. And then I show up here and you're sitting all alone in the parking lot. And it makes me wonder if you actually do. You said, I could trust you that you'd. Right. So it's your trust. I'm betraying now. Is that it? You're the victim here. for you. I'm not trying to make you feel... Why you're all up in arms about this, isn't it? You don't care about my students. You don't care about me. You're just worried that if I had such high expectations of my students, what's to stop me from expecting the same of you? Right? What's to stop your boss from thinking, gee, maybe I'd rather have these high schoolers working for me? That's why you're scared of. That's why you're so worked up over this. That's why you don't want... I am scared. I am scared that I'm not enough. That I'll never be enough. You're right. You're right again. You're always right. Are you happy now? Nick, I guess the folks that led me into Princeton really got me, huh? Telling me that I'm special, that if I tried hard enough, I could come out on top. Even if I came in not knowing a lick of Python or whatever, that's okay. But then I come here and everyone around me, there are high school sophomores coaching sixth graders for coding contests that my fancy-ass college classes don't even scratch the surface of and all I can think is, how the hell am I supposed to compete with that? Do you hear yourself? Do you seriously feel threatened by middle schoolers? I feel threatened by a system that tries to ring out every ounce of energy I've got. You don't get to complain about the system. You get a face at a career fair that recruiters actually going to tell apart from the next one. You get to see Tim Cook on your screen showing off his toys every year. You get to remind your managers of their sons. You don't even have to tell people what's different about you if you don't want to. I tell people I have a boyfriend. You have that choice. These kids don't get any of that, so I let them have me instead. You don't owe them that. You're just perpetuating the same thing. What do you want from me?  You think that'll make it all better? That's not how this works. There are people out there, students, parents, my own mom and dad who are counting on me, Nick, who expect things from me any minute now. My boss is going to walk out that door asking me what the hell happened and I got to be ready. I got to do what I always do. I fix things. I set them right because I can because people need me to because I know how and nobody else does because that's what I'm here for. That's what I have to. That's what I'm supposed to do. No, Nick, wait. Nick.  Come on, Nick. I'm sorry. Please, Cassie. Nick. Cassie. Nick. Maggie. Will. What are you doing down here? Have you seen Cassie? No. Maggie, what's wrong? Cassie, she can't survive on her own. She doesn't even know how to cook. A C minus in geography. Maggie, come down. What are you talking about? I tell her and explain to her. She just won't listen. Maggie. What? Just tell me what's wrong. Is Cassie, did she run off or something? Don't worry about it. But I'm. I'm sorry. You had to see that well. I'm so embarrassed. Let's forget this ever happened, okay? What about Cassie? Cassie is my problem. Thank you for trying your best, Will. But she's just not like you. No, that's she's her own person. She doesn't have to be like me. Do you really think so? What? Look me in the eye and tell me the truth. Would it happen better for me if Cassie was easy to raise as you? I don't know. Your parents are so lucky. I'm not sure if that's never mind. Go home, Will. What? No, Maggie. Let me help you. How can you help?  But you taught me to look beyond that. You taught me that it doesn't matter how young I am. I can do things older people can't do, Maggie. I never told you anything like that. You didn't have to. It was from the way you trusted me, like with my SAT or when I redesigned your AMC curriculum from scratch or that that one time when you said when I Everything's fine, Will. Things will sort themselves out. You should just go home right now. Why did you let me lie to you about Nathan? What? You know, when I found out he died, but I still came to work that night. You didn't lie. I acted like I didn't know he was dead. I know you did. Because I didn't know if you knew and I didn't want to be the one to tell you. You told me all of this afterward, Will. So I just taught my classes if nothing happened. Yes, but I even wished you a good week. I remember. But you had no idea until I told you? I didn't. Didn't you think it was weird that a 16 year old knew how to do that? Just shut in all my feelings and pretend I didn't know someone had died? Weird? No, I wouldn't say that. I didn't think so. Because what I remember is later that week, once I actually told you I'd been pretending, you sounded impressed. I was impressed. You said I could work for the FBI. You could be whoever we needed you to be.  That was a good thing. Like being able to hold my composure of a dead 14 year old was something to be proud of.  You should be proud. Proud to be so strong. Proud to be your top student because you know I learned it from you. I didn't have to teach you that. You didn't have to tell me to do it. Because you already knew how to do it yourself. No, I just watched you do it.  You knew he died as sure as I did. And you were hiding it from me too.  You don't think I learned from you how to pretend when you rewarded me for it?  Okay. Maybe you did learn it from me. You always were a quick study. And you don't think there's anything wrong with that? What you call pretending, I call being responsible. I had to set my feelings aside. I had to be what Nathan's parents needed me to be. They lost a son and they needed me. You didn't need me though. You didn't need me to do any of that. I never had to ask you to help me. You always just did it yourself. Because all I ever wanted was to make you proud.  People who've rolled up their souls and hid them away. No, look at me. It's second nature. It's all I know. You sound like... Nancy? Yeah. She said I tied up the real me and stuffed him real deep somewhere. She's always so cynical. Yeah.  I wonder why. She doesn't know what you've been through, Will. What I've been through. She would never understand. What if she's right? No. Will, if you heard the things she said to me... How did she know you called me with that guy at Jollyman Park? Did you tell her?  I must have. Did you want her to interview me that badly? No. You just let it slip so she'd have something juicy to write about? I would never do that to you. What? Yeah. Will, I know what Cassie said was harmful. But I'm not the bad guy here. You know that. I'm not sure what I know anymore, Maggie. It's Cupertino. How many places can you really go?  I used to come here all the time for crepes before they closed down. Me too.   We don't need another, a 45th boba place.  It makes you want to puke.  You think I just enjoy being contrarian? Am I wrong? You're getting better at your food-based peripals. That one was almost subtle. I wish you were wrong more often.  I can tell you're used to being right. You enjoy it too much. Maybe I do. You're very perceptive. My own life's a bore. I'm used myself by studying other people. And the others here aren't as boring? Oh, no, they are. Of course. But then I know I'm not the only one. It helps me forget I'm alone for a bit. You're not alone.  I can prove it. How? Because you were right. Of course I was. Wait, but how? I'm a fake. I'm a suck-up.  And most of all, I'm sorry. I'm sorry too. I shouldn't have used the park incident against you. That wasn't fair. I accept your apology. And I yours. So you admitted that. Yeah, you win. Somehow this doesn't feel very satisfying. I'm sorry, I'm stalling. This is, um, this is difficult for me. Really? I can't imagine anything would be difficult for you. Well, it's supposed to be the first time for everything. What is it you find difficult? Being honest. Not being fake. I don't find it as easy as you do. Clearly, that's worked in your favor. Internally, at least. And internally? I haven't a clue what's happening internally anymore. Start with the simple stuff. You've got a brain, stomach, lungs, liver. That's reassuring. A heart, presumably. I'm scared. Definitely a heart then. I'm scared I'm not going to get into the grad schools I'm applying to. What else? I'm so scared I'm not going to get into any of the grad schools I'm applying to that I haven't even began to research what grad schools I'm applying to and that just makes me more unlikely to get into any of them and consequently more scared. Awful. What else? I'm scared of introducing it to my dad. What else? I'm scared of how my dad will react to him. Even though everything will probably turn out fine. Nope. Even though everything will most certainly not be fine and I already know that but I'm scared anyway. What else?  What else?  What else? I'm scared he's right. What else? I'm scared that he's wrong and really he's the one who's a terrible person but that I won't find it in my heart to leave him because I love him too much. What else? I'm scared I don't actually love him at all and I only think I love him because that's how I think I'm supposed to feel towards someone I've been seeing for nearly a year. What else? I'm scared your mom's not going to want to teach me or not want me teaching anymore now that she's seen me like this. What else?  What else? I was too scared nobody would hire me over the summer that I didn't even try to apply to anything which is why I wound up teaching for your mom again because it was a sure bet and therefore the easy way out. What else? I'm scared I always take the easy way out but things have always been way too easy for me all the time that one day I'm going to hit an actual obstacle and not just what I wrote about for a college essay and I'll have no idea what to do and this meticulously constructed world I've built for myself will all come crashing down. What else? I'm scared I've been performing for so long I don't know who I am anymore. This is? I'm scared. What? This is you everything you just said you're all of that. I'm a collection of my fears. Your fears make you human. No. No. I'm more than just what I'm afraid of. Are you now? You mean your parents my parents all the parents and kids in this area we're all just scared but we don't have to let that fear control us the way it controls our parents. The world's a scary place. Yes. We're always going to fail. That's true. Almost every time I've told myself I'm being paranoid about something it turns out the exact weirdly specific thing I thought about I thought what I was being paranoid about actually happens. Yeah I get that too. But somehow I'm not going to let it get to me. Exactly. How? By pretending. By performing. By putting on a brave face. It's awful. Yes and and you have to watch yourself it's true or you'll end up like me. I went too far but it's the direction you have to go. Thanks. I hate that. Well sometimes you have to pretend. You have to lie to get through you.  Haven't you ever lied to your parents before? When I was 10 years old I told my mother she was my favorite person in the whole wide world. She still talks about it. I know sad isn't it? Terribly so. If I said it to her again she'd probably forgive me. I'm sure you know her better than I do. She forgot how scared she was at least for a bit maybe a week if I'm lucky. Long enough for you to think of something else. I can keep that up two years isn't so bad. Actually they can be pretty horrendous. Yeah but they'll end. If they don't end you first. Sorry. Bit much. No uh at least that was honest. I'm gonna try to be. Let's let's get you home Cassie. No no no no no no no no you're doing it again. What did I do? You don't get to turn this into another one of your neat little lessons all right. I wasn't trying to. God you don't even know you're doing it do you? I didn't. Did I? I guess maybe I. Think about what you just said. Oh god I did didn't I. That wasn't. God how do I. Just stop trying to teach me. I just wanted to make sure you're. Go back to what you said all those scary things. I don't want to just dump all my anxieties on you. Yeah don't worry I don't want that either. So what do I. Then don't say them now say them later. Um you can't just shut them down again. Feel them write them down. Talk to your boyfriend go to therapy. Okay maybe you don't really want to face your fears do you. I'm scared they're my fears they're scary that's why they're my fears.  I don't know if I can allow myself that there are people counting on me.  I've some goddamn self-respect. I don't know how. Doesn't matter you gotta start trying you gotta keep trying and you can't ever let yourself forget it. You want my advice. Yeah yeah I do. Start with the scream. Cassie wait. What. Maybe we shouldn't be screaming out here in public. Like somebody's bound to hear us look there's a there's a there's a car over there what if they think I'm I don't know kidnapping you or something I mean I can I can see why you're screaming would maybe be a good idea let off some steam but if you want to do it maybe maybe we should find somewhere else a little more. What. Oh sorry. Everyone for coming a big round of applause virtual round of applause to our Cass here and our playwright Nelson we just want to say thank you and to remember to look into donating to the Ogre project as well as BAM's festival Nelson I'm turning over to you. Yeah special thanks to Makayla our dramaturg Mavis Manolato Michael Rose Grant Tron Stage Dr Ken Urban and all the and everyone here who came see this for your support for making this possible there's a feedback form somewhere I think someone like wherever you're watching this from there should be some way to find it look look for yeah keep it on yeah I think it's in the comments of the zoom and also in the bye I want to say somewhere in the caption on Facebook and how around thank you


Felly, yn posibl i ddiffenwys i'r ddiffenwys i ystod yn FFWF, byddai Hulmes Y Ysaf ond myr i mwynteyntau y gynhyrchu. Felly, y Cymdeithasethau willo gan ddatblygu i'r ddarparu hynny, ac, efallai, fyddai hynny byddai ei chymdeithio cyfreith o hyd i ddim yn ddigon i'w ddigon i'r ddifolio ddigon i'r ddifolio, wrth wybodaeth na wneud hyn ac Ieithio ond y Com Jessie yn myr i dresses amdano uchydig ar y ddiffenwys, ac mae ein bod ganddysig iawn i ddigon i ddifolio i chi fod eich cyfrant. O'rèneu i gael dydag i'n gennym ei dweud i ddefnyddio beth oedd. Mae cyfrant yn cyfrant yn cynnig oedd yr hyn yn fasgfynol nid. Felly, rwy'n ei ddwyperu i credu i'r cyfrant ar gyferrwyaf oedd unrhyw o'r newydd o ddweud y cysylltu aeth yn gyfnogwlad seef yn Cyfrans. Fyng y model 4, maes atdag yw cael hwn o felch yn ei ddewch i'r myngau. Maes y model 6, I was very firmly remains the destination. Members will be aware. I started this process in December last year, when I was considering the report of the independent review into Murray maternity services. I then proceeded to meet and engage with senior teams and boards, with clinicians, with local community campaign groups and elected members from right across the political spectrum. This was important to do and it helped me to come to my final decision, which I announced in this chamber in March. This was to progress with model 6, a full consultant-led maternity unit at Dr Gray's with model 4 and networked maternity model, linked primarily with Regmore as part of the development towards that final destination. I also announced in line with the recommendations of the independent review that I would bring some level of independent assurance to this process. I was delighted to announce in July that Professor Linda Dacastica would lead this work. Since then, Professor Dacastica has identified further clinical support and expertise to work with her to provide this external assurance. The team working with Linda includes representatives from relevant specialities such as pediatrics, anesthetics or obstetrics and midwifery. The external panel will be a sounding board and a critical friend to both NHS Grampian and NHS Highland. Crucially, it will provide assurance and reassurance to the community and to me here in government. This has already begun through meetings and email exchanges, providing me with a further level of scrutiny and advice on progress and plans. Presiding Officer, members are aware of the NHS Grampian and NHS Highland draft joint plan submitted to me on 1 July. I welcome this plan, but at the time I was expecting further information before giving my response to it. The model 4 plan is an important step in the journey towards model 6, and I was pleased to see the ambitious timescales within it. What I can say here today is that, before giving approval to model 4 plans, I am very clear that further work is required. There are elements to be worked through locally and nationally to deliver for families in Murray. At a local level, clinical teams in Highland and Grampian need to develop the safe pathways of care to bring reassurance to both the women involved and in Murray and to clinicians too. At a national local level, there is work to be done to address the on-going challenges of recruitment. I have asked Highland and Grampian to share their recruitment plans to meet the 2023 deadline in the model 4 plan. There are some key elements in the model 4 plan. I wish to draw the chamber's attention too. Firstly, the intention for NHS Grampian to introduce increased obstetric anti-natal care to Dr Gray's is welcome. It could result in at least 1,000 anti-natal appointments a year delivered in Dr Gray's, therefore reducing the amount of travel for pregnant women. The other element that I want to highlight today is plan cesarean sections. That is not included, as we know in the model 4 plan, due to its dependency on other services and skilled staff being available. I expect plan cesarean births in Dr Gray's to be covered as part of that model 6 plan, which I am expecting at the end of this year, and ambitious progress to be made to deliver that ambition. I will ask Linda Dacasticaar and her external assurance panel to look at the issue in further detail. We should view the interactions between model 4 and model 6 as a continuum. We will not wake up one day and suddenly switch from model 4 to model 6. I expect model 6 to be phased in over time and clear that elective sections should be given priority within that phasing process. Concerns have been raised with me by local campaign groups and, indeed, by clinicians with regards to the projected numbers in the NHS Highland draft business case for women giving birth in Regmore. I have asked the external assurance panel, which I have just spoken about, to take this forward and investigate with boards and, indeed, with clinicians at pace. The ambition is to achieve choice for women living and money, the choice to birth in Regmore if they wish to go there and where clinically appropriate. Of course, I understand that there are concerns. There are concerns that progress is not being made quickly enough and concerns that clinicians do not feel the changes proposed are safe. I hear those concerns and I do take them very seriously indeed. I commend the steps that NHS Highland is taking to engage with the clinical teams to identify and address those concerns. That takes time and I have always been clear that change will not happen overnight. We must work with clinicians in Grampian and, of course, in Highland and, where there are legitimate concerns, those must absolutely be addressed. I understand that the priority for women in Murray is that they have access as soon as possible to the widest range of maternity services that they can safely and realistically be delivered as close to home as possible. The independent review of maternity services in Murray proposed, and I agree with this proposal, that the first step in achieving this is to implement a network maternity model, linked mainly to Regmore. I have already announced funding of £5 million to support improvements in Regmore to be clear when I visited Regmore earlier this year. I saw for myself investment was much needed. The investment in Regmore was not contingent on taking women from Murray. However, improved maternity services at Regmore will benefit all women who give birth there. The redevelopment in Regmore is key to improving the environment for both women giving birth and clinicians who work there. I know that there are doubts around model 4. I have heard clinicians from community members and campaign groups, too. However, the real prize for implementing model 4 will be opening up scope for more pre- and post-birth appointments at Dr Gray's and enabling more women to have their labour and birth in a hospital closer to where they live. That will be delivered by having the clarity of a safe model 4 as an interim solution, with robust pathways of care providing care closer to home and increased choice of place of birth. Women who need obstetric lead care will be able to have the choice of Regmore or Aberdeen for the birth of their baby until consultant-led services are returned to Dr Gray's. It is critical that we continue to have a parallel focus on implementation of model 4 as the final destination. NHS care should not be about bored boundaries. It should be about working cross boundaries to deliver the best care for all women who choose to birth there. That is key to a networked model. I was clear back in March that I expected plans for model 4 and model 6 to run concurrently. I know that NHS Grampian has begun the process of planning what it requires for model 4 and to lay the foundations for model 6. As I have already made clear, a view model 6 is a continuum of model 4, an improvement journey with a focus on safety and led by clinicians. Oversight of this work is provided through the chief officers group jointly chaired by both NHS Grampian and Highland. I expect that model 6, planned by the end of December, expects to see evidence of collaborative working and joint plans from boards, for example, around the pathways of care. As part of this next phase of work, monthly meetings will take place between the board, between Professor Linda Dicastiker and my officials. I would like to talk a little bit about engagement and reinforce the importance of it, particularly on-going engagement. I am pleased to note that connections are already being made with the external assurance lead, and that includes community groups such as Keep Mum and Murray and Bam from a maternity voice partnership. Their views have been instrumental to getting us to this point, and their challenge will help us to shape the way ahead. I have spoken to Keep Mum just this week, and I have given them a cast iron guarantee that I remain absolutely committed to model 6, a return to consultant-led midwifery unit at dot degrees. I would like to outline what I see happening over the next six months or so. In November, I expect to have initial advice from the external assurance panel on the NHS Highland business case and on the numbers of women giving birth, which I know is, and Reg Moore, which I know is causing some concern. In December, I expect to meet NHS Highland and Grampian to discuss my expectations for the model 6 plan and its interaction with model 4. I expect to receive the model 6 plan by the end of December. Of course, I will keep Parliament updated in that regard. I am certain that everybody in this chamber wants to see women in Murray being able to give birth as close to home as possible, and we will endeavour to make that a reality and always ensure that the priority is the safety of women and their unborn children. From January to February, I expect to have a response from the external assurance panel on the plans received. That will be fed back to both Highland and Grampian. I hope that this statement gives some level of assurance to members, to the clinicians, to community groups who have raised concerns. Work to return consultant-led maternity services to Dr Gray's is progressing. Covid-19 is undoubtedly impacted on delivery timescales. The context continues to be the most challenging time that our NHS has ever faced since its creation. The chief executives, the executive teams at NHS Grampian and Highland continue to assure me of their commitment to deliver both model 4 and, crucially, the final destination model 6. I reiterate my and this Government's absolute commitment, not just to model 6, but to ensuring that we return that consultant-led maternity services to Dr Gray's to ensure that as many women in Murray can give birth as close to home as possible. Thank you, Government Secretary. We will now take questions on the issues raised in his statement. We have slightly overrun, but I intend to protect the around 20 minutes for questions after which we will need to move on to the next item of business as time is tight across the afternoon. It would be helpful if members who wish to ask a question could press the request to speak buttons now as soon as possible. I call First Lady Douglas Ross. I know that it is customary in the Scottish Parliament to thank the Scottish Government for making a statement, but I just cannot. I cannot on behalf of Murray Mums and families thank him for that statement because I share their anger, disappointment and frustration that we are no further forward. Months after the cabinet secretary previously came to this chamber and said that he would make this a priority, we are no further forward to restoring consultant-led maternity services at Dr Gray's than we were over four years ago when we were told to put up with a temporary downgrade for just a year. In his previous statement to this chamber in December last year, the health secretary claimed that he understood the urgency and the importance of the issue, but that statement he just read out does not understand the importance of this issue because we are still in the situation where there is nothing of comfort for Murray Mums and Murray families in that statement because the agonising worry and concern about being transferred in labour, be that Inverness or Aberdeen, is still there and shows no signs of ending. Quite frankly, Model 4 is a red herring and I'm pleading with the health secretary to listen to local representatives, to listen to keep mum and other campaigners and scrap Model 4 and move directly to Model 6. He shouldn't just listen to local people and local politicians, he should listen to the clinicians that wrote to him today. I'm sorry, Presiding Officer, the health secretary overran, how long can we speak about this issue because we have been waiting for months for this statement and I know people are watching this today to hear really crucial points put forward. Mr Ross, I have given you some latitude, I'm giving you some latitude, but I'm asking you, you've got 90 seconds, you're in two minutes, I'll give you two and a half minutes. Thank you. So what does the health secretary say to the health clinicians who wrote to him, 22, from NHS Highland today, to say that Model 4 remains fundamentally flawed? They say that Model 4 must therefore be rejected and the consultant-led service at Dr Gray's hospital re-established as a matter of urgency. Will he do that? Will he say today that Model 6 has to go forward? On electives to Zarians, last December he said in this chamber there should be a rapid reintroduction of electives to Zarian sections at Dr Gray's. Now we're hearing that's going to be part of Model 6 and also on Model 4, he's saying we should somehow celebrate that there's going to be more pre and post birth appointments at Dr Gray's. I've never had one concern raised with me by local women or families about pre and post birth appointments at Dr Gray's. They want to give birth at Dr Gray's and there was nothing in this statement that would do that. Okay, cabinet secretary. On a point of order, Douglas Ross. I wonder, Deputy Presiding Officer, if you will accept an emergency motion to ensure that a longer debate and discussion can be had on this issue. You have made such a motion in the past. I accepted it in the past. I don't see the need to do so on this occasion. I gave you an additional time. You've used that additional time and more. I've already explained that we're tight for time across the afternoon and I've called the cabinet secretary. If it helps, I'm happy to commit to a meeting with Douglas Ross if he wants to discuss his issues in more detail given the limited time that we have this afternoon. I do take the concerns that clinicians have expressed and written to me today, as Douglas Ross rightly references. He probably knows I've met with those same clinicians when I travelled myself to Rhaigmore. That is why I haven't stood up in this chamber and said that I am in principle giving agreement to Model 4 plans. It's why I've come to his point. I understand he's speaking from a sedentary position. I will come to his point about potentially his suggestion of scrapping Model 4. What have I asked Professor Linda De Castigar to do, who has a panel of a paediatrician, obstetrician, midwife, a range of specialisms in this field? I've asked her to engage with those clinicians, particularly around that concern between what seems to be a gulf between the numbers that clinicians are suggesting will be giving birth in Rhaigmore versus the numbers in the draft business plan by NHS Highlands. In terms of his concern about scrapping Model 4, his suggestion of scrapping Model 4, if I did that and if I do that, then we will not have those additional prenatal and anti-natal care at Dr Gray's and the type of scales that are being suggested by a grampiant in Highland, but also what we wouldn't have is the ability for Murray mothers to be able to give birth closer or many Murray mothers to be able to give other Murray mothers, if Douglas Ross just listens. I promise him that I will meet him if he wishes after this as opposed to him shouting from a sedentary position. What it will allow more Murray mothers to do is give birth closer to home in Rhaigmore in the intervening period as we get Model 6 up and running because I'm certain that Douglas Ross appreciates, I hope he appreciates the reality that getting Model 6 up and running, which I'm committed to, to give a cast iron guarantee that we want to get there, is going to take time. He's shouting again from a sedentary position when, as he listened to my statement, he would have heard that I said that the joint plan for Model 6 is due to me at the end of December and I plan to give an update to Parliament then. I'm more than happy, again, given that Douglas Ross continues to shout from a sedentary position. If he wishes to raise these issues with me directly given the lack of time or the constraints of time in this chamber, I'm happy to meet him separately if he wishes. Thank you, Presiding Officer, and I thank the cabinet secretary for prior sight of the statement. My constituents in Murray are extremely concerned that Model 4 is unsafe and it is at best a distraction from delivering Model 6, and at worst it could become the permanent solution. Those concerns are backed up by the clinicians in Rhaigmore hospital who tell us that the service in Rhaigmore is currently unsafe and can't take an additional 190 patients far less than 650 to 900. The gulf in those numbers is because the Government's estimation is based on UK-wide figures, not on remote rural figures, which demand a more risk-averse approach given the distances that patients will have to travel in on an emergency. Cabinet secretary is saying that he hears those concerns but he really hasn't in the statement given any indication as to how they will be resolved. He will have a plan at the end of December, but can I ask for the detail of how and more importantly when Model 6 will be delivered, not just the plan? I can't tell you when Model 6 will be delivered because obviously I have to wait for the detail of the plan that comes to me in December, then I'm happy to update Parliament around how long Model 6 will take. I, like everybody, if I could have Model 6 in place yesterday, I would have done that, and we would have done that, because I have an absolute commitment to return a consultant-led maternity care to doctor grades, no ifs, no buts, no maybes, no possibilities, and that is the final destination. What we're doing is working back from that final destination. What I would say, and I should have said this in reference to Douglas Ross's question, is that Covid will impact delivery timescales. I can't get away from that. In fact, since the independent review was published in December last year, of course we had the Omicron wave, we've had the BA2 wave, the BA45 wave, so there will be impacts, but I promise that there's no shortage of, certainly for me, pace and urgency to get a Model 6 delivered. In terms of Rhoda Grant's question, I'm happy to reiterate what I said in my statement that I acknowledge the concerns that are there from clinicians. I don't dismiss them by any stretch of the imagination, and that's why I've asked Professor Linda Dicasteker, who's leading the external assurance piece of work, to report back to me next month. I think that I said that in my statement, report back to me next month with her initial advice, her initial I hope assurance, giving me assurance and reassurance around those concerns that have been raised by clinicians. I will respond back to clinicians in very short order, but I'm happy once I get that piece of external advice from Linda Dicasteker to update members who speak in the chamber today. To ask the Scottish Government how it will continue to keep the invaluable voices and lived experience of the women and families of Murray central to its decision making going forward. I can be brief in saying that that will absolutely be part of the engagement going forward, not just from me, so yesterday I met with other groups like Murray and Banff MVP, and I've met with a number of local elected members, and I'll continue to do that. I will say that it's not just about my engagement, although I will certainly pledge to continue that engagement. I've asked that the external assurance lead to those conversations, but my absolute expectation is that the health board also continues to engage with those local campaign groups. They will be absolutely central to the process, however long it may take. Edward Mountain, people of Biodynical. Thank you, Presiding Officer. I've met twice with the maternity team at Regmore, and I listened to them. I actually really listened to them Cabinet Secretary, and they're worried about the safety of mothers and babies. Cabinet Secretary, the £5 million promised to Regmore will rectify some of the 15 years of under-investment, but it won't even buy one extra bed space. The cost for providing extra beds and additional staff for Murray Mums might be double that or even more. Will the Scottish Government guarantee to provide whatever funds are required and get staff in place before, and I mean before, Cabinet Secretary, approving a move to option 4? I also listen and hear the concerns of clinicians. I'm noticing from the Conservatives that they're shouting often from a sedentary position if they want to have further meetings. I'm more than happy to do so, but I think that we should treat this issue with the seriousness and the respect that it deserves. If Edward Mountain had read the NHS Highland draft business plan, he would have seen an important and crucial line that says that it's understood that further investment will be required for an alongside maternity unit, or Inverness-based community midwifery unit, which will require additional capital investment. I can only make progress in the statement if the Conservatives don't barric from a sedentary position. If he lets me read what that report says, it says that it will require additional capital investment along with revenue that will be needed to be encompassed within our current capital allocation. Of course, we'll continue to work with NHS Highland around the revenue and capital that is required, but that has been acknowledged already if Mr Mountain goes back and looks at the draft business plan. To ask the Scottish Government how NHS Grampian aims to cultivate a positive and supportive workplace culture at Dr Gray's and its other sites. That is crucially important. We are not going to make progress to that final destination of model six unless we take staff with us, the clinicians as well as the local community alongside us. NHS Grampian prioritises engagement with staff and has undertaken detailed work to understand how colleagues are currently experiencing NHS Grampian. It has a very active culture collaborative group, including colleagues from Dr Gray's, to promote best practice in developing a positive workplace culture. In addition, I have been told and given assurances that there is extensive staff engagement at Dr Gray's hospital right now to co-produce the new strategic intent for Dr Gray's, including development of the maternity services that have been discussed today. Women in Murray are being let down by a lack of services close to home, but they are also being let down by the Government's sheer inability to properly value our NHS workforce and fill vacancies across the country, particularly in rural communities. It is clear that Scotland needs a women's health campaign to lead and push on issues such as those. The First Minister told the chamber in June that the appointment would be made in the summer. The women's health minister told me in early September that the appointment process was almost complete. Can the cabinet secretary finally tell the chamber when Scotland will have a women's health campaign and show women in Murray and across Scotland through action rather than words that the Government is actually listening and taking its concerns seriously? I disagree with Karen Walker, who I respect very much, slightly and actually quite vigorously on this point, that we do value the NHS workforce and we do not just talk the talk on that, we put our money where our mouth is. That is seen by the latest pay-off or the final pay-off that we have put in the table for NHS staff, which is almost half a billion pounds, ensuring that NHS Scotland staff remain the best paid compared to anywhere else in the UK. I hope that that offer is accepted by our respect that trade unions will go through their democratic processes in that respect. In terms of the women's health champion, yes, she is right that it was due to be announced in summer, but it is so important that we get the right person for the role. Therefore, due to a variety of factors, as Karen Walker is outlining, there has been a delay but people are looking to make that announcement about women's health champion eminently. The consultants and staff at the maternity units in Rhaig Mawr's concerns are essentially that the business case prepared by NHS Highland Management fails to address very obvious issues such as underestimating the number of patients that would come from Murray, such as making no provision for decant in the proposed refurbishment of the existing maternity unit. It is surprising, cabinet secretary, that the issues of fact seem not to have been resolved and unfortunate to say the least. Therefore, can I ask the cabinet secretary, will Linda Dacascar, in her work meet with the consultants and staff, give enough time to them to listen extremely carefully to their side of the case, because without that, I fear that it will not be possible to guarantee safety, which is something that you have said is a sine qua non of going ahead with model 4. In short, yes, yes, Linda Dacascar. Well, it is why I have asked Linda Dacascar to look at the concerns that have been raised with me in that open letter from clinicians, and it is why I have not come to this chamber to say that I give final approval to model 4 plans. I could not do that in good conscience, because concerns have been raised, and therefore it is really important when those clinical concerns are raised that we ask other clinicians, as part of the external assurance process, to investigate those claims and come back and provide me with initial advice. When I get that initial advice, once I am able to analyse that and read through it and give it some detailed consideration, of course, we will ensure that Parliament continues to be updated. I thank the cabinet secretary for his statement. It is clear that considerable effort has been put into finding a workable solution to improve maternity care for women in Murray, but I am aware that until model 6 is up and running, women in Murray still have real and valid concerns about their care at such a crucial time in their lives. What support will be in place to help women to make informed independent choices about their birth plan, even though options may be limited until model 6 is fully operational? I have tended to agree with almost every member of the Scottish Parliament here that the situation that Murray women face at the moment is far from ideal. There is nobody in here, not from the Government, not from, I suspect, any political party here suggesting that we have an ideal situation and that we have the safest situation that we would all want to see for our own families or for ourselves if we are able to give birth. I want to give an absolute assurance that any model that we implement going forward and absolutely committed to model 6 as the final destination will have to be done safely. The issue about C-sections was referenced already to me. The reasons why we have not included C-sections within model 4 is because we are told by clinicians that that would be unsafe to do so, because even a so-called low-risk elective section could turn into a high-risk one very quickly, and therefore you have to have the appropriate facilities if somebody hemorrhages and you need to give a blood transfusion, etc. I want to give an absolute assurance to Ariane Burgess, if I can, that certainly for any woman who accesses information, support and care at Dr Gray's, certainly the feedback that I get is very, very positive in terms of the information that they are given, the informed choices that they are then able to make, but be in no doubt whatsoever. Does nobody in the Government, myself of course included, who thinks that the situation for women in Murray currently is ideal far from it? We have just over two minutes and three colleagues who still want to ask questions, so I am going to have to ask them for the questions and also the answers to be more brief. Stephanie Callaghan to be followed by Jamie Halcro Johnston. To ask the Scottish Government how NHS Grampian will adopt robust clinical governance arrangements within the maternity service that fulfil the requirements of the clinical and care governance framework. Well NHS Grampian, they do have a clinical governance committee in place and its role is to oversee quality and clinical governance for the board and ensure that quality standards are being set, that they are being met and of course continually improved in appropriate areas of clinical activity and that effective arrangements for supporting, monitoring and reporting on quality and clinical governance are in place right across NHS Grampian. Jamie Halcro Johnston to be followed by Gillian Martin. Thank you. Families in Murray have at least received an independent review into maternity services and this is something that patients in Caithness have been calling for in their area since 2016 in response to similarly unacceptable circumstances that have prevailed there. So can the cabinet secretary outline whether an independent review into maternity services in Caithness will be commissioned by the Government and if not, why not? I am sure that Mr Halcro Johnston is well aware that I met the local and can-brain group chat in Caithness and in fairness. I think that we both found the meeting a very constructive one. In fact, we have already started some conversations around how we can make improvements to the services provided for women and their families in Caithness. In response to his direct question, he will know that the best start north review was paused due to the pandemic, that encompassed a number of health boards in the north, Highlands and indeed including NHS Orkney 2 in that conversation. That work is now resumed and that will include of course looking at the issue around maternity in Caithness. In the north-east we have been struggling with staff vacancies for considerable times. So my question is about targeted support for increased recruitment and retention from medical staff to money and a cross-grampion to ensure a robust service, particularly in midwifery and obstetrics, as we move to model 6. Is a concern that I have that we just do not have those people in place even at the moment? Is that enhanced provision that has been looked at, what are we doing to target support? Gillian Martin raised with me by my colleague Richard Lochhead, who is unable to be here because he is at an STUC meeting with the First Minister yesterday. The assurance that I gave to him and I gave to Gillian Martin today is that I recognise that national and local actions will be needed to address those local staffing challenges. I have asked both Highlands and Grampians to share their recruitment plans to meet the 2023 deadline in the model for plans. So there is extensive work under way. I am happy to write in more detail to Gillian Martin given the time constraints about what is happening in relation to recruitment, but it is going to be a crucial part of those model for plans and, of course, crucially part of those model 6 plans in the future too. That concludes the site of the business. There will be a brief pause to allow the front benches to change before we move to the next site of the business.


My five favorite oils in order. Okay, my absolute favorite, it's gotta be extra virgin olive oil, first cold pressed and organic. It's the most nutrient dense food that you can possibly put in your body. It's loaded with antioxidants and polyphenols. In fact, it's so good for you. I tell my patients that the only purpose of food is to get olive oil into your mouth. And the benefits of olive oil keep getting discovered year after year. Recently, the study in mild cognitive impairment, having people use extra virgin olive oil, showed improved memory and improved cognition compared to a placebo oil. The hits keep coming and coming on the benefit of getting olive oil. Now, there's creative ways to get olive oil into your diet. Just check out my video on my podcast, YouTube channel, titled, How to Add More Olive Oil in Your Diet. Next up, perilla oil. Now, most of you have probably never heard of this. Perilla is the favorite oil of Korea and parts of China. Perilla comes from the perilla plant. Many of you have seen perilla growing in your garden or in your house. It's a coleus plant. So the seeds of perilla oil is where perilla comes from. What's so interesting about perilla? First of all, it has a rich content of rosemaryic acid. Now, rosemaryic acid is one of those compounds that supports brain health. And in fact, in studies of the Achearoleans, who are the oldest living people south of Naples, Italy, they chew rosemary all day long. They chew sprigs of rosemary. And they're looking for the rosemaryic acid that supports brain health. Perilla oil is a great easy way to get rosemaryic acid into you. But perhaps more importantly, perilla oil is very high in a short chain omega-3 fat called alpha-linolenic acid, A-L-A. And the cool thing about ALA is that, as I've written about in the energy paradox in earlier books, it's tremendous for heart health. The famous Leon Hart diet study compared people who were put on a Mediterranean diet with added ALA into their diet versus the American Heart Association low-fat diet. These are people who had heart attacks. The study was designed to go five years. It was stopped after three years because the group that had the ALA in their diet had so fewer heart attacks than the American Heart Association low-fat diet that it was unethical to continue. And when they broke down all the components of the diet that made a difference, the only thing they found different was the level of alpha-linolenic acid in the participants' bloodstream. You can mix it half and half with olive oil in your salad dressings, like I do. You can cook with it. This one is actually from Dr. Adorable. I have no relationship. What a cute name. Dr. Adorable, you can find it on Amazon. Next up, sesame oil. Now, my first oil that I love is olive oil, but the second and third are really close together. Perilla, maybe, nicks out. Sesame oil, but sesame oil is not to be forgotten. Now, most people know sesame oil as toasted sesame oil, and it's great for adding as a flavor, but the real benefit is in plain, untoasted sesame oil, and just so happened to import this from Morocco from the same people, the same farmers, who provide us with our olive oil at Gendry MD. Next up, macadamia nut oil. Now, macadamia nuts are one of my prize nuts, but the reason macadamia nut oil is so unique is that anywhere from 11 to 27% of the fats in macadamia nut oil are palmettoleic acid, which is omega-7. Now, studies in rats have shown that omega-7 fatty acids induce a feeling of satiation and enhance the release of satiety hormones. And one of the only ways to get omega-7 is macadamia nut oil or sea buckthorn oil, but this is delicious and easy to find. Again, try it out in your salad dressings. In fact, have fun. Mix multiple ones of these oils together. Drizzle it on your foods. It's got a wonderful kind of buttery flavor that I absolutely love. It's easy to find. Finally, MCT oil. Now, MCT stands for medium chain triglycerides, which the cool thing about MCTs is that unlike any other fat and like any of these other oils, MCT oil is absorbed directly through the wall of your gut into your bloodstream that goes directly into your liver. All these other fats curate this root. In the liver, MCT oil is converted into ketones. And ketones are what stimulate mitochondrial and coupling, the subject of my last book, Unlocking the Keto Code. Now in a landmark 2008 study, researchers at Columbia University compared two groups of overweight people, eating a diet with the same number of daily calories with one critical difference. One group ate olive oil. The other group consumed MCT oil. Fascinatingly, the individuals who ate MCT oil generated more heat, burned more oxygen, and lost more weight than those who consumed olive oil. So olive oil is great, and there's very good studies showing olive oil promotes weight loss. But if getting into ketosis and uncoupling your mitochondria is what you want, and believe me, you want that, MCT oil is the way to go. Now for my women viewers, you gotta be careful with MCT oil. If you start too quickly, many women get feelings of nausea, get loose bowel movements, even diarrhea. So work your way up. I like people to try to get three tablespoons a day in divided doses. It's a good place to start. Now we've also found that many of my women patients do better with powdered MCT oil, and it just so happens that I make an MCT oil creamer that is powdered MCT. And it's also got many additional ingredients to support gut health, mushroom, ashwagandha. Powdered is the way to go for women if you're at all worried, and it makes your coffee taste delicious. When you're buying MCT oil, buy or beware. You want to look for C8 or 10. Don't look for the mixed MCT oils. A lot of them are pretty worthless in generating ketones. C8 is the best at generating ketones. C10 is right behind. So the good news is, this is now becoming readily available. It's a Costco, and if it's a Costco, you know it's readily available. All right, those are my five favorite oils. Olive, perilla, sesame, macadamia nut oil, and MCT oil. Enjoy yourself, mix and match. They're all great for you. They all have distinct benefits. So get them all in your diet. I hope you enjoyed this episode of the Dr. Gundry podcast. Make sure to check out the next one here. Gundry MD Polyphenol Rich Olive Oil has 30 times the hydroxy tyrosol as conventional olive oil. It's like getting the benefits of drinking an entire liter of olive oil in just over two tablespoons.