I've been thinking a lot lately about what it means to be a good Linux user. And I think that of all the qualities that it would take to be a good Linux user to be a successful Linux user, the most important one is that you're not intellectually lazy. And what I mean by that is most successful Linux users are willing to learn new things. And if you're not willing to learn new things, you're not going to be a successful Linux user. It really comes down to being as simple as that. Linux is not for someone who's not interested in being a learner. When you first install Linux, you're going to have things go wrong. And that problem isn't going to go away. You're going to continue to find problems on Linux for as long as you use Linux. It's just the nature of Linux. It's the nature of Windows too, but people don't support their own Windows PCs. They get support from the PC manufacturer. So when you have something wrong with Windows, you call Microsoft, or you call IBM, or you call whoever you call, I don't even know. You don't do your own support on Windows. Somebody else supports you. On Linux, you're very much your own support system.  That's not something that happens on Windows. And if you want to be a successful Linux user, you have to be willing to do that. You have to be willing to search out a solution to your problem. You have to be willing to learn new things and how to solve things when they go wrong. You have to learn how to find different programs that you have to use on Linux because certain things aren't available on Linux that are available on Windows. If you're not willing to do those things, your experience on Linux is going to be terrible. What got me into this was that Luke Smith did a video the other day and basically the whole 10 minutes of it was him wandering around in his backyard as he's known to do and talking about an experience he had with some random other person who installed Manjaro and had a bad experience. And I'm not saying that that person didn't have a bad experience with Manjaro. It's possible that that person did. The problems that Luke Smith was naming off were all stupid problems and every single one of them was very easy to find a solution for on the internet by googling it. And maybe this person wasn't intellectually stimulated enough to actually go through and search out those solutions other than calling Luke Smith or whatever, you know, if that's the thing that you can do. Does Luke Smith have his own hotline or something? I don't know. Maybe it's possible. I don't know all the details of that situation, frankly, don't care. But from what I've, you know, saw, it was more case of that person just shouldn't be using Linux.    But my point is, is that when you use Linux, you have to be willing to learn new things and to admit when you don't know things. You can't go about using Linux in a passive fashion. It just doesn't work in this, you have someone else completely supporting you. So like if you install Linux on someone else's computer, and they're not interested in knowing and learning about Linux and finding their own problems. You are the support that in that, in that scenario. This has nothing to do with that person. And that's a fine scenario to be in, you know, I have family members, I've installed Linux on their computer before, and you know, I'm that support person. And we can't count that person as a true Linux user, because they're never going to experience what it means to be a Linux user, which is to have problems and solve them and learn new things.  So the bottom line is that if you're going to be a true Linux user, and you're going to be a successful Linux user, you have to be willing to learn new things. You have to be willing to face problems on your own, and then find solutions virtually on your own, because that's just the way Linux works. Now that doesn't mean that you can't find help in the Linux community. That's not true. There are tons of sources of existing help and new help. So if you need to, things like the ArchWiki, the Debian wiki, the Ubuntu wiki, these are great sources of documentation, but all of these distros also have vast communities. And for the most part, they're willing to help new users. They can be a bit prickly from time to time. But for the most part, new users get the help they want, as long as that help is sought out.  Not really. There's a community, or there's a, there's a Windows conglomerate, I guess is the word you would use, and when you want support from the Windows conglomerate, you call Microsoft, or you get on the Microsoft forums, whatever they have, I don't even know. It's not community driven. So you're not used to this idea of going to Reddit or a Telegram group to get support. And that's the way it is in Linux. It's completely different. And when I'm talking about, in order to be a good Linux user, you have to be able to be willing to seek that stuff out. I'm talking about when you make a transition from Windows to Linux, to being able to transition from one support structure, which is basically relying on someone else to support you, to being completely on your own in terms of support, seeking things out and such, like that. So I think that the reason why Linux has such a hard time supporting new users is because we tend to have a lot of people who can't make that transition from one support structure to another. Even though those people have jumped the hurdle of actually seeking out help, we oftentimes treat those people as if they're still Windows users and they're treating the Linux community as Microsoft support. And that's something that the Linux community kind of has to get passed. But it's going to be really hard because there still are a lot of people who treat the Linux community like we are technical support. And we're not, you know, the relationship between Noob and the Linux community has to go both ways. And that's what makes the Linux community great.  Because you've experienced Linux as you go along. And there are people behind you that are going through the same things you went through. That's how you get involved. And it's a process that every Linux user goes through. That's how would you have to do in order to be a successful Linux user?  It's just not possible because your experience on Linux when you first install it is going to include problems. It just is. And that experience isn't going to go away. You're going to have problems for ever on Linux. It's just the nature of Linux. Things go wrong all the time. Even if you're using a stable distro, you're going to experience an update that goes wrong. You're going to experience an app that crashes, you know, because software has bugs. It happens, you know. And your experience when you first use Linux is going to be very, it's going to kind of like training for the rest of your Linux experience because how you start on Linux is going to be how you continue. And if you're not willing to put forth the effort, really that's the bottom line is that Linux requires effort. And if you're not willing to put that effort in, don't use Linux. Use Windows because Windows requires no effort. That's the difference between Linux and Windows. One requires effort and curiosity and intellectual stimulation. And Windows is just a tool, like a hammer. And the only rule against, you know, for using the hammer is that you don't hit yourself in the foot. That's the only rule.  When something breaks, you have a support system in place if as long as you're willing to seek it out, that can help you fix your hammer. So that metaphor went completely sideways, I'm sure. Anyways, that's it for this video. If you want to get in contact with me, you can do so at the Linux Cast on Twitter. You can support me on Patreon at patreon.com slash Linux Cast. Before I go, I'd like to take one moment to thank my current patrons, Devon Chris, East Coast Webgent, who is fun to Marcus, Megalyn, Donnie Sven, Jackson, Knife and Tool, Mitchell, Mr. Fox, Arts, and American Camp. Thanks everybody for watching. I'll see you next time.


Now the floor is open and we can collect questions and also the comments are most welcome as well. Oh, yeah, we have one gentleman over there and we may collect some you know around five questions and we may invite the speakers to rest the pond. So please identify yourself and then to be short about your questions. I'll do my best. My name is Adam Schlosser. I'm from MIT. Thank you all the three speakers for your talks. I thought that we're very stimulating and hopefully my question is a synthesis of all of your points and that is what struck me with the first talk was the statistic that 80% of our greenhouse gas emissions come from cities and that we do have an opportunity to think about this not just in terms of greenhouse gases but co-benefits and then the third speaker talked about in particular different forms if you will of cities and my question is this a City in and of itself is going to have millions and millions of people together. There's no way that we can really avoid the fact that they're they're going to produce greenhouse gases both directly and indirectly and my question is is from that 80% how much can you envision that being reduced by all these different forms of cities that you're proposing and Perhaps maybe another way of looking at this is not just the reduction of greenhouse gases But also the co-benefits how much do we even think is going to reduce just the health effects with the new structures of these cities? That's a very Reading the question and now we have All the lady in front Thank you so much and all the three presentations were very interesting I'm Brinda Vishwanathan from a Dr. School of Economics Chennai My question is directly to Jose When you're talking about co-benefits in terms of the cities, I think that the issue of poverty doesn't come up Quite effectively and I think the two of the examples that you were talking of yoga Karthi and Delhi There are also issues of you know very specific things like solar rickshaws and things like that which have Co-benefits of a very different kind a sense that you provide employment to the poor and you also think of options that are Also sort of more green, but they might be short term But why aren't these also being considered as part of the development process and here? You also have green buildings and things like that which have which also address issues of housing Urban housing in the sense of the for the poor people so but I don't see that come through in in some of your Discussions that you're making and what could be the reason for that. Thank you. Okay. Thank you I think that the poverty has to be Yeah, the gentleman over there Thank you so much for all your interesting presentations are three of you. I have a specific query to mr. Joe's You talked about co-benefits That essentially means that you do some activity and try to reap another benefit or to fit My question is unless you quantify and make it tangible the benefit won't remain a benefit for it for the city government For example, you derive Ghez Mitigation as co-benefit out of a transportation activity in your city Unless you get a kind of tangible benefit out of it the co-benefit would not remain a benefit for the city They won't get benefited otherwise example So it could be a CDM project coming out of An initiator which is not aimed at greenhouse gas mitigation That could be a straight and simple answer But do you find any other tangible co-benefits or the mechanism to convert the corn co-benefits into tangible entity? In any city so far. Thank you Very good question materialize co-benefits. He's also a challenge. Okay, the lady in front and then we go to the back Hi, I'm Rianti from Indonesia I have I think a similar a simultaneous question for the first and third speakers. I Think my first point to the first speaker is that I Understand the World Bank program for mitigation and adaptation adaptation at serious level but Sometimes based on your presentation. I just don't see I Mean like when you when you put them the program as sustainable cities But if you look at cities in poor or developing countries, some of the cities are just They're their emission their emission level is just so low. So why would you spend efforts on? measuring them or In the first place and then also it comes on the opposite side to the third speaker I mean all your examples there were very encouraging, but I didn't see Can you please elaborate more on how you can see this these? Innovations or can be applied in poor or developing countries because all your examples there were are Like some of I mean are done in in developed countries. So thank you And that's that's good and so yes, we have the the lady here Here thank you, sir Thank you for those stimulating sessions. My comment is on Mr. Wang's paper The the urban forms you proposed the compact city We've come to see really that's a theoretical thing Though maybe it could be walkable in some sense, but once the city has developed once it's emerged There really is no way to make it compact again except maybe by by by reducing Distances travel to probably to transport and things like that, but you know making it compact in the real sense of Physically may not be walkable, but the activities in the city, you know can be tamed down or Let me see they can be more efficiently performed and that is what really can make the city compact Thank you Good. We can get a one or more two questions then we Asked the Speakers to respond. I think this is a very good question, you know for building you can retrofit But the four cities we cannot that easy to get them retrofated. So yes, please Thanks very much for your presentation. Yeah adaptation and mitigation is are very important to the city's development development, but I Think in in person the adaptation may be more important to us to cope with the cope with the climate change, but We know that there are many different difference many benefits we can from this measures adapted to cities, but How should we consider the cost of these measures? I think it may be the cost will be higher than the benefits you Mentioned on on the city's development. So I my question is how should we Consider the coasts of these adaptations or how should we balance this coasts under the benefits of this adaptation? Okay, thank you. Thank you. I think that you know urban resilience is Very much a key issue. We have to pay attention to I think we should stop here for the questions And we've got six minutes and the each year typical you are you are allocated two minutes each to Respond some you know 10 questions as a result So I do not have to repeat in the interest of time so you may you know select the questions you want to respond and of course, you know the Power point of slides will be made available to everybody and of course during lunchtime. We can have Discussion as well. So the floor is yours. I think that you know we may Go and you know the order in in reverse. So Mr. Wang you come first and then we may ask Marcus and then you are the last I Will answer thank you very much and all the question is very interesting and great for our studies and I would explain about the how the This kind of innovations in Implied in our developing countries and especially for some poor countries. I think it's quite difficult called urban planning is a compromising Development policy in all all worldwide. We cannot answer all the package of the problems in in One time because if we do have the urban area and all the people will criticize about the how we do have data Well, we got money and if the urban Planning is suitable for this area. So for developing countries, we need to choose So we for us we should see first thing out about how we have what's the Local results we have and what's the local conditions for example the culture the history and Natural resource and then think about the urban policy If this is a poor country like a poor city, there must not so much private cost and We can benefit from built more neighborhood like the car free neighborhood. It's not It's expensive thing and it's quite practical practical for example, and then I will answer about the question and The different kind of urban forms It's how it can be implied to balance in the different aspects like you know more economical social and the Environmental protection, I think urban planning and the German policy is a complex and uncertain and We need to when our urban planners do a planning work. We need to consider so much not only the Future but also today and it is not a one solution And we need to consider so much from different aspect I think we need to think out How it's some sample form we need to We need to consider first what's the society structures or the cities and the economical conditions and then we should think about a practical solution and Environmental quality is very important. It should be combat combined with other to expect but The other two is to consider first for example, we have the power to operate this policy and then we can operate but not we see we imply so much innovations like the Public transportation we built a lot of road road in the we want to build in our urban planning, but we Where are we good money? So we need to consider our economic conditions and the social conditions first Thanks. I think I'll maybe speak to the first question First which was I think if I understood it correctly well, how much can we really expect to reduce in particular through actions and cities One thing I didn't mention earlier in my presentation was If you and coming up to that up to 80% figure attributable to the residents of cities If you look at some of the work for example from a new Ramaswamy and others who tried to put in all of the embodied emissions What we've seen is that the per capita emissions of cities are actually as high or almost as high as the national emissions Once you put all of the embodied emissions And again, that's not surprising because of all the active economic activity and consumption which goes on in cities So to my mind The the solutions still need to be concerted global and across all of the sectors energy agriculture You know so and so on and so forth, but I think the point is this and when you look at organizations like a clay C40 cities so and so forth is The it's also just part of the motivation for action with the city saying, you know We'll take action now even if for example in the international negotiations. We're stuck We can undertake Measures and coming back to the efficiency point and these are things we can do today in our city with the decisions that we take And these are consumption decisions with you know, how we move around our city What kind of energy we consume so on and so forth? but also and this is coming to the urban form point again and about you know, the sort of the long-term lock-in about the decisions we're taking and I think it's you know, the Chinese cities are being built up very very fast now But I anticipate if you look so 30 40 50 years in other regions of the world and these are real decisions Large amounts of money being invested by governments by the private sector and these decisions are very very long-term consequences The I think the point is well taken that you lock in this that you would will lock in sprawl But it's a decision about how you want to lock things in if you are building a Metro network or you're designing the sort of the road system and the highway system For and around the city on these are decisions you can take about about how you know, how you're going to design it And and and actually it's a very large feel out there which are people talking about these things a couple more points Actually, I think one of the a number of questions spoke to the sort of the costs versus the benefits And I'm sure Jose you're going to speak to be the co-benefits after this But but I would say this and and I think I speak here from sort of an operational Perspective at the World Bank is you know every time you make an investment every time the World Bank for example goes out and Designs and and takes a decision on an investment project You look at the economic and the financial analysis sort of the the cost-benefit analysis And you try and take all of the costs and all of the benefits including the non-market ones into account And this whole discussion then about the co-benefits. What are they? becomes really really important Because you look at the when you want to take when you're taking an investment decisions You need to look at the alternatives the alternative project designs the alternative investment decisions and also the the efficiency, you know, how efficient is our expenditure, you know and how efficient Will this be just a vis-a-vis the benefits and the returns we're getting The last point I'd like to make and I think this speaks to sort of the urban poverty questions and the adaptation and vulnerability questions Would be this and it's actually a message with David Dobbin and some of his colleagues have been making for a number of years now is that Reducing vulnerability adapting in cities, especially in low-income cities with respect to the urban poor is really a question simply of good Development in cities We've been trying to reduce poverty to address all the issues with slums, you know and so on and so forth on for many decades now in cities In some places we made some headway in other places. We haven't but rather than running around and saying Oh, you know, what do we need to do to adapt now in this city? It's it's it I think when it comes down to it It's all about the good development and continuing to do all of the things We're supposed we've been wanting and supposed to be doing with urban poverty reduction and and and with slums In in the cities of developing countries to do all of that good stuff And that will actually go a long way to reducing vulnerability and helping cities to adapt Okay. Okay. Thank you. Thank you for the questions or interesting I'm just going to pick up few questions that they're more related to to me The first question is how to reduce for example 80% of the emissions in cities for example And I think there is no silver bullet. I can't you just one thing and you've solved all the problems I think you have to work in different Aspects, but there are as I mentioned things that if you can do very quickly If we just give you an example one case in Sao Paulo waste management, they reduce 13% in two years just With a proper landfill burning the metal to generate electricity and they create a fund They got a CDM product a creative fund now There are 50 million dollars that they use for environmental Conservation in the city the environmental fund for the city it means in two years you can reduce Very quickly and and there are some but all there is much more complex like urban form Even the beginning of the discussion cities people thought the warmer form was very important But today people think it's not that important. I just give an example in the US They think they saw this study if you double the density in triple the use of public transportation Just reduce around eight ten percent and the cost would be much higher I mean there are other areas improve efficiency of the house that these things it could give you much more Impact with less money and then I think there is no silver bullet. You have to work in different areas regard the question about poverty Most of the our case you look at some aspects of power not directly But there are some implications for example green jobs and many of the case you look at it like Community-based solid waste management that creates some jobs But most of the impacts are indirect like one in case another in case in India surat For example, you have the plague there in the mid 90s What a lot of stupid poor people dying because of plague in mid like mid 90s And they could clean up and there was huge in terms of health effects And this is where a lot of the indirect impacts are for example when you look at Good transportation for the poor is at bring them more access to jobs, you know, the elsewhere affordable and clean Transportation and in these aspects in general that those that not much come up in the studies They would have organization came up with this study on core benefits in transportation The very interesting look at impacts on health is much higher than the other impacts. It's this indirect impacts They also I Was caught on not to go in in Landsat like in two years ago when the health and climate change look impacts in cities And you look at most of the actually the benefits come from from health indirect impacts for particularly for for the pool and the tangibility I think there are Issues in terms of tangible benefits and economic benefits most of them Is a women's situation, but I think the biggest biggest problem is the political economy You know these benefits not going to the same people is distributed in the average the economy is they all aggregate the aggregate there are Positive the benefits higher than costs But when you distribute and then some like oil companies the other have a lot of power They learn lose and the pool are going to games and it means never happened Some of those actions because of the political economy and look at more and why they have done very interesting Studies on the political economy on this aspect if you look at that and finally the adaptation agree with Marcus I just I have a friend now who works for the government to really did this studies on adaptation And then she came up that the policy they do all these simulations and Don't throw garbage in the river. Don't build in the steep terrain because it's like just good development And I think the best adaptation is mitigation because more you take time to mitigate More expensive and more adaptation you need in the future And then I think you have to focus it is I very I Think that you have to focus much more in mitigation the beginning was that one now the agenda going a lot to adaptation but I think Mitigation is is is is key for for not making the adaptation worse because if you don't mitigate you have to always Run behind the adaptation the cost will be much higher and I think the adaptations is a good development and just Put this on the agenda think climate change could bring this idea to align better because it's just more one more issue They bring but it's just good development anyway There are a lot of opportunities and but how to do I think this debate question you also know the science You know the cost sometimes most of the times the question is how to create the institutions actually Leverages and this I think what what need to do is to do the build institutions and that's it well believe that the speakers have answered all the questions and Yeah, of course, I think that you know the 80 percent Emissions how much you can reduce We can make some very simple calculations in a matured developer, you know urban or metropolitan area some you know 40 percent is from the building sector and then we have now in the passive housing we have energy efficient buildings and if we use sauna water heating devices if we use sauna PV for electricity generation if we use geothermal and then half of the emissions could be reduced at least And then if we look at the transport sector, which he accounts something 30 percent of the total, you know energy emissions and if we have you know this sort of you know Compact cities if we have this you know public transport like a to the transport oriented development And then probably half of the emissions can be reduced as well and then if we go to the industrial sector and energy efficiency and Renewable energy resources would really contribute to a enormous amount of Opportunities so if that's the case probably more than half of the emissions can be reduced with a lot of co-benefits Well, it's very encouraging and we do have the challenges. We have the opportunities and also we have these solutions and and Now we need to finish our session and I would like to invite the audience to join me to thank the speakers for their excellent presentations


What's up? Welcome back to the channel. Now, in today's video, we're going to be talking about the leads that you get and how long it takes to close them into your program. Now, this is something I've been thinking about because a lot of coaches that ask me questions throughout the week, they always ask, you know, when someone is raising their hand they're wanting to join my program. Sometimes it takes me forever to close them and get them in. Now, one of the big problems that I see is you might have a lead come in and maybe it's on email and they come in on email, you go back to them on email and you're going back and forth. And what happens is there's zero, I'm going to put phone call here, phone call, there's zero phone call, right? And the reason why there's no phone call is because either you're most likely afraid to talk to them over the phone or you don't know what to say to them over the phone and you'd rather just send them an email. So what we need to do is completely change that. We want to take whoever the lead is and we want to get them on a phone call as quickly as possible so you can talk to them, right? Now, this is another big problem though that I see coaches deal with is someone does raise their hand, they are interested and then the coach and the business owner takes forever to get back to them, right? So you're delaying the process of closing because you're not following up with them. They raise their hand but you're not aggressively trying to get on a call with them. You're not responding to them and that would be the same. Like if let's say you reached out to me, let's say you sent me a text message and it took me a week to get back to you, it would make you feel that I don't care about you, right? And I know that's happening right now when prospects reach out to you, that's what's happening right now is you're not getting back to them quick enough. So you need to make it a rule that within 24 hours you've already established follow-up with them or you established contact with them and that means that if they come in through your website or they come in through Facebook or they come in through Instagram, you've already followed up with them within 24 hours because odds are they are shopping, they are looking for help and that means on the day that they reached out to you, they probably reached out to three or four other people as well and whoever gets back to them first has the advantage. That's why it's so important when we think about from going from lead to a client, we need to be strong with how we respond. You need to do that fast. You can't delay, right? But this phone call here that I crossed out, that needs to be something that is a priority for you. That should be, when someone comes into your ecosystem, you should be first to reach out to them, schedule a call with them, get them on a call, talk to them, see how you can help and then we close them. And ideally, this is how I like to help coaches in our program. Ideally, we want to go from lead to client in max one week. They need time to think, right? So this is why we need to have systems in place. But the first thing that we need to do is when someone comes into your ecosystem, you follow up with them and you schedule time to chat over a call. If you're trading emails back and forth, that's going to delay this and there's no way you're going to be able to close them in your program in under a week. So I hope this helps and if you have any questions about sales or about how to do this or about what to say over the phone, reach out to me. You'll see my number pop up right here. It's<PHONE_NUMBER>. That's it for today's video. I'll see you later.


This is a reverse osmosis and what this does, it will take water out of the sap. So I bring my sap into the shop in the afternoon and hook up and let this run overnight and it will reduce by 50, 60%. So in other words, it takes out at least half the water. Most of the time I come in at 2% which is 43 gallons of sap to make a gallon of syrup and I bring it down to around 5% which is 17 and a quarter gallons. So this takes a lot of the boiling time out of the equation. This is worth every penny you spend on it to reduce the amount of fire which you're gonna throw into that evaporator.


Life is good. Oh, excellent. We like to hear this. Yeah. Jeff, have you been doing most of your stuff through the payer subgroup? Is that correct? Lately, yes. Okay. Have you spent much time lately with patient at all? I haven't. Okay. All right. We're in the process of switching over to a new lead for patient. And Dennis, who's out of Switzerland, and so we're probably going to be making an announcement sometime soon about sort of spinning that back up again. And I seem to recall that you were involved in patients sometime ago. That's right. When I was more working on that end of that. So, okay. All right. Good to know. Thanks for that. Well, this is Edward at the top of the hour, and we have very few people and particularly our guest speaker. Hello. Good God. So do you have my email, Rich? Since yesterday I saw yours daylight. Well, so we are at the top of the hour. So I do want to get started and I think I suspect folks will start to dial in as we get started. Good morning, Ken. Ken, do you want to introduce yourself again? And I apologize. I know you've been on the calls before. I want to say you're on the East coast somewhere. Oh, I heard something, but not a whole lot. Or maybe, maybe Ken's not quite there yet. Oh, good morning, Kamlesh. There's Ravish. Good morning. And Ravish, don't have audio with you quite yet. Yeah, hi Rik. Come this here. How are you? Good morning. Good afternoon. Good evening to you. How are you? Yeah, I'm good. How are you? Very good. Thank you. All right, well, we'll get started. And as I say, it looks like people are just now coming in. So good morning. Good evening to everybody. Great to have you on the call. And it looks like Ravish is getting sort of set up right now, but we've got a little bit of introduction to get through and then we'll hand over to Ravish in very short order. So you should have on the screen, I'm sharing our agenda for the day. And as always for our HC sick meetings, we record these events as well. There's our antitrust slide, which feel free to read through it, but the upshot of it is be a good person. And I don't see anyone new on the call this morning. So, but can I, I'd ask you to reintroduce yourself only because I forget. I seem to remember you're out on the East Coast. Is that correct? Yeah, that's fine. Yeah, my name is Ken Jensen. I work for Centera Health Systems. I was actually out of Norfolk, but I'm in based in Virginia Beach, Virginia. Yeah. Okay. All right. I was trying to remember the name of your company. Great, great to have you on the call again. Thanks for that, Ken. And like I said, I suspect people will start to sort of filter in over the course of the morning out here in the Seattle area. It is, it's very overcast. It's oddly, oddly overcast and very cool. So a very unusual and it seems just like just like a slow morning. So maybe it's overcast in Seattle. Really? Well, the past few days it's been unusually warm. It's been in the mid 80s, which is very strange. The weather has absolutely been changing over the course of the past few years or so. So I'll figure. All right. So I do want to make one community announcements. This has been sort of an ongoing announcement. I know the team has continued to work on this, but out of Cambridge University, we have a couple of folks that are developing the next generation of their global bench global block blockchain benchmarking study. And so they have contacted us and asked that if anyone is doing work with production level, blockchain solutions in the healthcare space that, that you please contact them. And you'll be able to sort of get your, your work published into their, into their paper that they're producing. Anything else anyone on the call wants to make under the sort of auspices of community announcement. Okay. Good morning. Yes. Good morning. How are you? Very good. Did you have one quick announcement, Rich? I wanted to make is the, there is a physical need that I'm working with the Maryland Center for Entrepreneurship sometime in July. I think it would be a, either a second week of July or third week of July. It's still working out dates.  It's going to be in Columbia, Maryland, kind of for a half a day thing. And I have secured the facility and all. And once we finalize the date, I will get that out to everyone. If you are in the area around Columbia, Maryland, then it would be good to join. I am going as part of that, you know, from pay or subgroup perspective, I am reaching out to the payers here who specifically invite them more in line with our thought process and the fair subgroup to start working on a real POC. So just wanted to quickly put this out there. Oh, good. Okay. And you'll sort of notify membership with the details when those come through. Yes. It'll be another week or so. I will have everything finalizing out of the details. Excellent. Okay. Well, very good. Thank you. Well, if anyone else, if no one else has a comment as far as community announcements go, let's sort of just segue right over to Ravish and his presentation. So many of you probably already know Ravish. He's the lead of our payer subgroup as well. He's CEO of, is it Joget or Joget? Or how do you? Joget. Joget. And a great organization that Ravish will be talking about. And I suspect it'll be related to hyperledger fabric. And so that's correct. How could I have guessed? The slides for Ravish's presentation are up on the wiki already. So Ravish, if you want to sort of take over, feel free to take the screen over. And the rest of the morning is really yours probably until about quarter to the hour. And that'll give us plenty of time for Q&A. Okay. And let me share my screen so I don't know when you guys see it. Perfect. Looking good. Okay. So let me just level set what we are getting into for a discussion and then we can go from there. So we have been, I am not sure what's, it's give me one second. I think something is causing a problem. Give me one second. Sure. I saw the presentation. So you were awfully close. Oh, and good morning, Wendy. I didn't. I just saw they just got on the call. Good morning. Good morning to everyone. Happy Friday. Happy Friday. Thank you, Wendy. Can you guys see it now? Yeah. Yeah, here we go. Okay. Okay. So just quickly talking about what, why I thought it would be a good idea to share the presentation here. I think we have been in discussions with various work groups. We have had a lot of discussions around, especially in healthcare also, we had a lot of discussions around possible use cases where it would be better to leverage blockchain and the real problem is that obviously if you are a business user, you know less about blockchain, you have no idea about the coding and all. And blockchain as being a technology problem is a business problem also. So I thought it would be good to just hear from everyone. A quick minute on what do you think is blockchain adoption and a technical problem or a business problem? Anyone? So this is rich. So I'll say generally speaking, it's a business problem. And I'll even say it's more political than anything else, particularly in the healthcare space. But that's just my take on it. Yep. So Rich, you are, I mean at least I share the thoughts. It's not a fact, but definitely I see that more so technical, it's more of a business problem and really feeling the business process around how you will leverage blockchain is another level of problem that we need to deal with. And talking about so many stakeholders like in healthcare, obviously blockchain extends itself to engage multiple parties if you will as one of the attributes itself. So it definitely is a business problem and a complicated business problem. And when we talk about adoption, at least these are my thoughts on why we see a slower adoption if you will from technology like blockchain, which has a lot more validity to what we are doing today and tomorrow. So one is obviously there is a usage complication. It's difficult to define what business, how business will use it, where it will use it, so on and so forth. When we talk about using the blockchain, things have to be done a little differently, which leads to resistance and change. That's another problem. Absence of regulation itself, like you talk about, it's more of a political than a technology problem, engaging multiple parties, a perception of immaturity. So it's all those reasons why it becomes very difficult to move a blockchain project in any organization. On top of that, if there is an organization today who does not have enthusiasts who are actively trying to learn blockchain and want to do a proof of concept, there is just a longer way to get there now because I cannot show it to my management. It becomes difficult to convince about a project. And just wanted to take a pause and talk about innovation, how innovation happens. The acceptance or adoption of any new concepts in any organization or amongst consumers is really proportional to your ability to demonstrate your proof of concept. If you can show them working, like for example, you go to Hyperledge Fabric, the first thing is to get started and there is a Fabcar tutorial, if you will, that talks about something in action that you can relate to. Everyone buys cars, so you can relate to that example and you can really see what it means and how it can benefit in a scenario or how it will work. And that is what is really required to fuel blockchain adoption, if you will. There are not a lot of blockchain developers, if you look at it. Obviously, it's growing based on the interest, but there are no, like they are searching for someone who has this in production. Well, guess what? The first step is the POC in an organization to make sure that this really can work. How do you get there? When you have lack of resources, when you have no one experience in blockchain within an organization, or you may be able to source someone externally to do that, but then your business processes are still your business processes, you still need a top process how you will leverage the technology internally. So that's the overall innovation cycle, if you will. And the only thing, or at least the critical thing to ensure that your team is able to continuously deliver and innovate, be it blockchain or any other technology, there is only one factor that at least comes to my mind, which is empowerment. If you have enabled your teams or empowered your teams to do POCs to showcase what their concepts, what the concepts they are talking about, that's what matters the most. And if you look at new technologies, you can mobile look at anything that has a higher level of adoption is because of the empowerment of the technology itself. Either the consumer is empowered to leverage the technology or your people are empowered to deploy the technology. These are the two major factors that contribute towards any innovation. And that's what we are talking about in blockchain. How do I do that? How can I, with my limited resources, be able to, if I am in IT and I want to showcase business that this really has value, how can I do that with very limited resources? So, in that comes a quick discussion about local platforms. I'm sure you guys might be familiar with, there is a lot of hype that Gartner has right now or Forester or any of these guys. So much so, Gartner is talking about 50 to 60% of development in any large enterprise will happen using some of these tools. So, I am not going to go in details, but the essence of this message is, we have to empower non coders or more so business users to be able to talk about how they can leverage the blockchain technology if you will and morph their processes to better leverage the blockchain technology tomorrow. And that's something that can be done by local platforms. So, if you talk about local platforms, there are a few things I want to quickly mention about and guys just jump in and ask questions if I am going too fast. We are talking about four major capabilities, any local platform. Number one is your ability to create drag and drop and create forms. In the fab called model, you are talking about registering a vehicle. You have to create a form that can capture the information for the vehicle. The second piece is your overall process. Somebody summits the information, somebody reviews this website and you are ready to write on the chain. That's a process, business process if you will that gets built outside the chain before you write to the blockchain. So that's another piece of capability. Again, these are all drag and drop capabilities available today. The third is to look at that information, to view that information, query that information so on and so forth. And the fourth piece is ability to stitch all this together into an application wherein you can create some menu items you can navigate so on and so forth. So these are some major capabilities in any local platform and should be there if you will. So just to give you an idea what does it mean when I talk about local platform? This is the fun part. I have a developer who may not know how to or let's say there is a blockchain developer who does not know how to create screens, how to create the whole application but definitely knows about blockchain or vice versa. I have a business user who is savvy enough to put together an application that will work around a blockchain framework. What we have done at Joget is we have created an integration with Hyperledger Fabric wherein you can, you know, install the plugin, configure the plugin to connect to the Fabric network and you can build around it any business application. And how you do that is basically ability to drag and drop, create forms, create process, in that process you create a step to write to a chain that's where the Fabric plugin comes into picture. So you don't have to worry about the screens that you have to build, you don't have to worry about the process that you have to build, you have to worry about writing the data that you're capturing or part of the data that you're capturing in the chain you can use the Fabric plugin to write to the Fabric network. And, you know, you can query that information all by drag and drop features.  But I felt in various discussions, in various, you know, topics around use cases, there was enough meat to talk about the use case but if I have to really put that project in motion I have to create a lot around blockchain before I really start leveraging blockchain. I have to create a process around it, I have to create a bunch of screens to capture the data around it and then I can integrate with blockchain, you know, like Hyperlegia. We went ahead and created this plugin for our platform to integrate with Fabric. And what it does is, you can just Google it and you will be able to find it. There is a big tutorial around how to start with Jogit. You don't have to have a prerequisite to know what Jogit is quite frankly because it's all visual.  But essentially you have a Fabric network running, if you will. And Hyperlegia Fabric Network, if you follow the tutorial, their tutorial, it is pretty straightforward to download a Docker image and start. Can a business user do it? Maybe, maybe not. But definitely any blockchain developer or any IT person can definitely install and run the Fabric network. They may not know what else to do around it but definitely they can do it. Jogit Enterprise Edition, it takes like 10 minutes to just run and install and it's an open source. You can download the Community Edition also and you can do it, you know, just like Hyperlegia Fabric, Jogit is also an open source. It also gives me this, this blog, if you will, let me just see if I can open up that. This blog takes you through if you have no idea about blockchain and no idea about Jogit, you start from the beginning, it will give you a quick overview of blockchain and what DLT is. It will give you an idea of Hyperlegia Fabric, what Hyperlegia Fabric is.  It just gives you a quick overview and I mean these are all linked to the Hyperlegia Fabric knowledge base. And Ravish, just very quickly, when you clicked on the link to that blog, it didn't look like it updated the screen properly, so we're still seeing your presentation. Oh, I am sorry. Let me just share my desktop that might be easier. I'm glad that you brought this up. Yeah, there we go. Yeah. So if you go through this blog and you can just Google Blockchain Hyperlegia Fabric and Joget and you will find it. It shows you, it will give you a quick introduction. It will give you an introduction about the blockchain and what, you know, distributed ledger is. What is Hyperlegia Fabric? I talked about the Fabric concepts and the example that they have used and then it goes into how you will build the app. So basically either query from the chain or write to the chain. That's the essence of, you know, and the example that they've used as Fabcar if you are familiar with that, you can, you know, just continue and build the app. Application build out is pretty straightforward. You see some of these screens as an example. And just to quickly, in this blog, you have links to everything that you need to try it out. You can download the sample application also. It is the link. You can download the plugin if you want to try it. You can download the, you know, Joget. You can download Hyperlegia Fabric. All is completely open source and available to anyone. And if you download the app and you try to run the app, you can see the screens that will capture the data here. Again, these are all, you create these screens by, you know, literally dragging and dropping. And then let me take you to, you know, this is just a view. There is a form builder in Joget. You can just drag and drop and create the applications. You can then create the full CRUD operations if you will, if you use enterprise edition, community edition, you will have to do a little bit more. And then there are some configuration screens if you will. You will see that this is where you really configure the plugin to give information about which network to connect, whether you are an existing user on that network or registered user or create a user. So it has it will give you all the information that you need to or capture all the information that is required to connect to a Hyperlegia fabric network if it's up and running. And it has a very simple interface to add parameters. This is just a Fabcar example, but you can add any number of parameters that you need to put it in a chain or read from the chain. And again, this is all configurable and visual if you will. And this is a very, very detailed example and here is the process wherein it's saying invoking the fabric transaction that will write to the chain. And here is a very simple way of mapping the arguments or the variables if you will that will capture the information from the screen that you want to write to the chain. And let me go back to my presentation here. So there are these giving information about the plugin what you have to sorry. These are the screen that I shared just now and what it creates is basically the application by virtue of just dragging and dropping. And essentially you will be able to create an application on a blockchain hyperlegia fabric if you want to do a POC. This is a really good way to download an open source which is fabric as well as yogurt and literally try it out all by yourself. Even if I would encourage even if you don't know any coding just follow the tutorial and you will be surprised that you will be able to create a really working web application working with fabric behind the scenes to really you know, capture some information right to a chain and read from the chain. I'll just take a pause here. I know I might have gone through faster but this is really not complicated information to go through as well. So this looks really good Ravish. So can you tell me a little bit more about, you said this is an open source project but I think also mentioned there's a community edition and an enterprise edition. What's the distinction between the two? Community edition is just open source community edition. Enterprise edition has additional features like auto generation of an app. You will not have that in community edition but community edition is fully capable of building any kind of app also. It's just that there are additional features, more from enterprise grade features if you will you know integration with LDAP and things like that which may be needed, which may not be needed depending on what you're doing. With community edition you can really do you can really build the app as well. I see. Okay. And basically what you're describing today could be applicable to the community edition just as well. It is applicable to community edition as well. It's just that there is a step in the blog that talks about the enterprise edition if you create a form and you want to create CRUD operations it just is a single click to do that. In community edition you just have to create three forms that's all. I see. Okay. Thank you. Any other questions? I would rather pose a question to if you are is anyone trying anything from blockchain perspective trying to build an application and what are your challenges today? So this is Johnny. So mostly it's interoperability at this point, so you can have actually like seamless integration with other systems. When you say interoperability you are referring to interoperability between chains or different types of chains. Not to mention semantics so fabric doesn't do well with semantic interoperability with concepts. Are you building the application for an enterprise or an end consumer? Both. Any other questions or challenges anyone wants to share? I have a question or a challenge but it would be really more informative I think about how to build something just as a demo live demo. I was actually going to get there. I'll quickly showcase how you can build an app and you'll give you an idea how you can build a process and build an app and obviously one of the steps is the plugin configuration. We will need a little more time to get there but I can definitely show you when I'm talking about building an app, what it means. Before we go there, Johnny one question I have for you was it a management decision you want to do this or before doing that you went through the cycles of conceptualization and here is what we want to do. So I'm pretty deep in the weeds with technological solutions so I don't think the issue ultimately is semantics. Going back to your car example what are you doing so that there's an ecosystem that understands that car not just your bespoke customer. Okay. Johnny this is Rich. Can you elaborate on your question I'm curious to understand sort of the context of where you're coming from on this. So within fabric so you have a great pipeline for building out and modeling but the issue really in my mind is one of semantics meaning behind the model and this is where a lot of the interoperability it's a hyper ledger actually could have an enormous strength of actually is creating meaning behind the data and ultimately that facilitating interoperability so not to mention just the schema it's for your model but also how do you extend the schema and or the concepts behind it. So a lot of fabric actually and I've seen a lot of these sort of wrappers that make it easy for engineers or programmers to get off the ground and actually write something and they write it but it actually like it's then it's about well is it interoperable with other system what is this car and the model and the attributes and so you've just created one off so how do we actually create economies at scale. So sort of common schemas or dictionaries across chain is what you're thinking about. Yeah, I understand. So some sort of commonality. So fire for those those of us in the healthcare space that are familiar with fire fast health interoperability resource. They use a similar concept which is a I think it's called a dictionary. I forget exactly what it's called but the idea is the only way that you're going to see commonality across multiple EHR platforms is that common common dictionary so that you know there's consistency in terminology and that really is sort of the enabler for interoperability and I think Johnny that's kind of what you're what you may be getting to here. Yeah, so fire I mean it's I have an involved in fire for a number of years and I think it's it's fascinating. I think it's great but it's sort of web 2.0 technology those are restful apis mostly using you know a server endpoints but the Jason schemas that fire facilitates actually is a starting point. The challenge is even though you have this robust dictionary is ultimately is the semantics is that can code up a CBC 100 different ways doesn't mean it's interoperable that we're actually come to some commonality about the meaning behind the values. We just have sexually something to hang our hat on as far as like a best guess for actually coding it up. So because there's so many options within fire actually leads to the lack of interoperability to the semantics behind it of the meaning of this this CBC or Kim seven or I do genetic so it's really that's even actually more comprehensive and complicated yeah yeah I think Johnny most increment in fire that you'd be looking at would be a codable concept codable concept identifies the code system and the concept within that system fire itself doesn't really do anything except provide you with a structure that allows you to model but it doesn't provide the semantics as you say codable concept really is the smallest bit of information in there that does provide that interoperability and if that codable concept is snowman or or ICD-10 or CPT then you have some way to represent the knowledge that you're speaking about the problem there is that not all of these are used in an interoperable way so the coding is not necessarily interoperable so you can have an ICD-10 code that will map to multiple snowmen identities and I think that that's a challenge but that's not a really challenge of a blockchain that's just a challenge that you have in healthcare I think but yeah and I think this is where we need to not rediscover the same mistakes that we've made in the past and I think so I'm just harping on this because I think you asked a question as far as what other hiccups and this is actually the biggest hiccup that I think alright so we have a flashy new distributed ledger and new database shiny object that and yet we still can't get to interoperability so actually Johnny just to give a perspective at least from my end from business world standpoint for a moment think about what you were describing that interoperability issue is resolved for a moment I'm hypothetically because you are going to do two I don't even call it technically a semantics if you will but for a moment think about that issue is disappeared and magically we have figured this out and there are no interoperability issues the business problem as it stands today remains exactly where it was earlier today also because ultimately when you resolve that issue and you start working with the business folks to create applications around this and process around this we are going to be exactly the same state as we are tomorrow those challenges will continue to exist for the interoperability that you are talking about because a number of dictionaries come and there are mappings that just create I mean just this is an ongoing problem but when you turn around to the business world they are left so behind that for them to catch up on a technology is another age to come so it's a continuous the way I look at it from overall technology adoption perspective blockchain AI until unless you commoditize this and give the power in the business hands to really model what they want they will then come back with the real issues like interoperability or security or some of those things that you can really surface and resolve in a context in a contextual way right now we are trying to resolve security as a security so broad security in healthcare means completely different than a end consumer you know world so there are there are layers of problems if you will but the first step towards this is helping them conceptualize helping them demonstrate what is required and then I can get to the other deeper technical problems the business world is left so behind right now you talk to them about blockchain they have no idea or no ability to think through and even talk about a POC I mean nobody is ready to fund a POC in any organization today handful organizations are trying to take a leap and work through this you pick majority of the organizations they can't think about spending money to showcase something if you will even showcase something if you will now if I think if innovation has to happen in this space the business world has to have some tools to you know create things for themselves to showcase what are they expecting in order to get the funding in order to move the world in blockchain that's my my two cents I don't know how others think so just going back to touch on what Johnny was saying I agree that there are certain areas within the clinical realm that are more difficult to be semantically interoperable other things such as pharmacy lab results I think these are I think these are very I think these are pretty it can be represented using a code system and fire to be interoperable of knowledge artifacts there are others such as diagnoses higher level results concepts that may be harder to say they semantically mean the same thing at one institution as at the other the interpretation may be different but I think that if we begin to narrow down it can be represented and look at how we do that and maybe apply that to some of the other areas I think some progress can be made I don't think that until the medical field has an agreement on how to represent certain knowledge that you're ever going to have 100% consensus but at some point if you have critical mass people are going to have to say look does this person have diabetes type 2 or not does this person have symptoms of post-traumatic stress disorder or not and I think that these harder things to diagnose will find a solution just through the way that you narrow the problems down anyway I do think that there is a certain level of interoperability especially in pharmacy and lab that you can begin to work with maybe some of the higher level concepts are still elusive so I think that in saying that the healthcare interoperability subgroup will be concentrated on areas that you can well define and can have somatic interoperability cross-chain we'll have to depend on how the models of chains differ but if they're a common model such as snowman or simi I mean sorry fire or simi then I think there will be some way forward there like guaranteed it seems reasonable to assume well plus one Steven for mentioning the health interoperability subgroup so thanks for that yeah anyways I just one quick thing I thought since Jeff you asked this question to really demo you know this is a form builder basically what you do is you create an app and then you go create a form and you can literally drag and drop and add fields to the form you can preview what you're building and then there is similar to this there is a process builder where you can literally you know create a process again by dragging and dropping and you know one of the step in the process is to write into a chain or read into a chain that's where you configure the plugin and ask the question about what is the difference between community edition and enterprise edition you probably will see most of the things in community edition other than you know when you are looking at generate app this just gives a if I have created a form I can just click on it and create you know current operations for that form and attach a process before in just a single click so this just super accelerates what you're doing but you can create the form you can create the you know retrieval of the information for that form again these are all drag and drops let's say I want to add another field I just drag and drop I want to create search filters I just drag and drop and do that but most of focusing on hyper ledger if you will you can you know all this information if you are writing to a chain or reading from a chain there is a step in there to really configure a plugin as I said and this is pretty detailed if anyone wants to try you can try it it gives you all the steps to you know configure the hyper ledger fabric plugin and then connect to it and write to the network and read from the network and everything around it it's more of a business application or a business process and you can see there are you know the transactions that you configure for read or write or basically it's either a query or an update to the in this example Fabcar network any other questions you know just to add to this we have been talking about a bunch of you know POCs of you will have proof of concept like with the donor milk and all so now if I when that POC started we didn't have the plugin but I know if you just to do using hyper ledger fabric and probably you know less than a week of working application can be demonstrated very interesting so do you have an actual sort of working end product to show or something available on your website that we can sort of play with yes I think as I mentioned on the blog if anyone wants to just not build the application and just try it out there is in this blog as I mentioned earlier there is this application you just download it and once you install Joget or you can just go online to Jogetcloud.com and just create a free trial account it won't even ask you for credit card but you can download this application rich and this application when you download is the same application that is in the example so you can really try it out. Oh excellent okay good thank you I had a team member who was going to be joining to demo this app itself unfortunately I think we changed it, I preponed the date and I did not change his calendar and he could not join today but nonetheless you should have it it's pretty simple working fabric network or you just download and have a fabric network you can just download this app and follow this simple tutorial to see the application working. Excellent thank you and this has the same the Fabcar example that is in the Fabric tutorial also. Well if we have no other questions thank you Ravish so much for the presentation very briefly what's sort of the history of the product how long has it been around for what's what are your plans going forward so forth yeah so the product has been around for almost 10 years now rich so it is being used in a number of enterprises the reason why I'm more interested in a topic here is to help facilitate some proof of concepts if we have something that we want to showcase very quickly from business standpoint that has to be on hyper ledger fabric I think that can be done pretty quickly and that shows the that brings the blockchain capability to the surface also to the business world we have been I mean you've been around since 2009 so open source since 2009 and there has been a lot of focus on no code no code application development recently since I would say since 2015 and 16 when it caught up and it's kind of catching a lot of attention if you will and we do have almost 200 customers across the globe with Fortune 500 on the list so there is a if you try it out we will know what I'm talking about when it comes to building an application and looking it up to the fabric it can be done pretty quickly so if there are use cases that you want to demonstrate you definitely can leverage the capability and do it excellent and then sort of a follow on so if I develop a solution through Joget is it a case then that I have the sort of ongoing dependency or does the end product operate as a standalone sort of fabric solution and I'm thinking in terms of sort of the banana file and all the sort of the back end components or does it still sort of end up having to require using the Joget sort of front which is to say I think what you are talking about is as I said Joget is an open source so you are not yes it will require Joget if you build an app in Joget it will require Joget but as I said earlier I want this discussion to be less about Joget more about the capability which is open source you don't need to buy Joget you can build the same application in Community Edition and the intent is to provide ability to showcase a business application that is connected to that is running on a blockchain technology so yes if you from enterprise perspective you start using it yes you have to continue using because the application is built on a platform runs on the platform but from trying out perspective use open source that's what we are here for you know that's what Zed had or Linux any of these organizations are doing is to empower you by not limiting you you know I would say for licenses you have the ability to download you have the ability to try out you have the ability to make it work if you want to take the Community Edition in your production you can do that too it's absolutely excellent well thank you and thanks again for the presentation Ravish very interesting and I can imagine you know even some maybe some of our work groups maybe making use of the product just to help you know very quickly spin up some sort of proofs of concept without having to you know spend a tremendous amount of time at sort of the pure development level of course that's what I enjoy so but still it's a great business case and I'm happy to know that it's available out there and sort of you know lowers the bar for some folks for getting a working product out in the marketplace so thank you for that and Rich the I'm sorry just to add to that I know if we are talking about doing a proof of concept today in any of the work groups I really need to source in a bunch of people who can put some screens together a bunch of people who can put some services together to integrate with Hyperledger this is anything you created in Jogit has a back-end API generated so you don't need to write services to fetch the data out for any integration also so it just gives you an ability to accelerate a POC if you will on Hyperledger fabric excellent yeah and I presume that's all well documented so that you know those of us that decide to sort of pursue this have access to I think you even said there's some very good tutorials that are out there out on the blog and so forth excellent but does anyone have any final questions for Ravish okay well thank you Ravish very interesting and again like I said I'm very happy to hear that we have this product out in the market at least predominantly open source for folks to be able to get started with a low-code no-code solution for fabric and do you have any plans for sort of branching beyond fabric maybe into sawtooth or any of the other sort of platforms yes we're looking into it Rich so something might be coming later this year okay oh well good to know excellent alrighty so we are coming up just to the top of the hour we got a few minutes left just sort of as an FYI our next meeting is two weeks out from today we're going to be back on a regular general meeting schedule so we will not be at least at this moment anyway we're not planning on hosting a guest speaker my intent going forward is to try to sort of stagger guest speakers with general meetings in the more traditional sense and that really gives subgroups and ad hoc teams an opportunity sort of status membership on where they're at on things now that said we do get and it seems to be increasingly so we do get asks for the opportunity to present and so we're just trying to balance that back and forth to the extent that it's possible it's great to know that as this group continues to sort of grow and mature and have sort of broader reach and again this is global it's nice to be able to see organizations from around the world coming to this membership to present for the sake of improving black chain technologies in the healthcare space so we're going to try to stagger it to the extent that we can and like I said we tend to periodically have instances where we just really there's a real strong desire to sort of have multiple presentations coming along so and again thanks to Ravish for his presentation and I believe we have a couple of other presentations sort of in the queue and I'll sort of status membership when that happens coming up in the next few months let's see any other comments before we close out for the week so I'll sort of put Steven on the spotlight so Steven and I have been going back and forth so we're very close to spinning up the Health Interoperability subgroup and so that'll be happening presumably in the next couple of weeks what do you think Steven? Yeah I think so I think not so much that my calendar has cleared but I am able to schedule time at least a couple of weeks two to three hours every week so yes I would like to start working on this there seems to be a lot of interest Absolutely yeah that's very true and I think that we just need to organize a forum for it and start working through some of the issues that John had brought up today and others had brought up before Yeah yeah exactly and Johnny great great comments because I believe your observations are very much sort of insinuated in much of the work that's going on in the healthcare space whether it relates directly to blockchain technologies or not it's sort of something that's pervasive when it comes to interoperability and then finally before we do close out I do want to mention that the patient member subgroup has just done a recent change over to leadership so Dennis Kozen and he's out of Switzerland he'll be taking over for oh gosh and I just slipped my mind it was terrible Benjamin Digi Ben is here in Seattle he works at Amazon and he and I have been working together and his professional career is taking off and so he's had to end the reigns over so expect sort of maybe a reboot of sorts with the patient member subgroup and that'll be we'll see an email generated through the listserv for that so if you have a particular interest in sort of the patient focus sort of the patient centric aspects of blockchain technologies it's probably a great opportunity now as we sort of spin this organization this subgroup back up again with sort of a new focus and some fresh thinking to that subgroup so that'll be happening very soon as well alrighty well I think that's all we've got for today thanks so much for your participation in today's meeting and we will see you in exactly two weeks have a great weekend thanks Chris thank you take care


Good afternoon, everyone, and thank you so much for joining us. My name is Savannah Peterson, joined by my co-host, Paul, for the afternoon. Very excited. Hello, Savannah. Hello, I'm pumped for this. It's our first bit together. Exactly, it's going to be fun. Yeah. We have a great guest to kick off with. We absolutely do. We're at Supercomputing 2022 today. And very excited to talk to our next guest. We're going to be talking about data at scale and data that really matters to us. Joining us, Kelly Gather. Thank you so much for being here. And you are with TAC. Tell everyone what TAC is. TAC is the Texas Advanced Computing Center at the University of Texas at Austin. And thank you so much for having me here. It is wonderful to have you. Your smiles contagious. And one of the themes that's come up a lot with all of our guests, and we just talked about it, is how good it is to be back in person, how good it is to be around our hardware community. At TAC, you did some very interesting research during the pandemic. Can you tell us about that? I can. I did. So when we realized, sort of mid-March, we realized that this was really not normal times. And the pandemic was going to touch everyone. I think a lot of us at the center and me personally, we dropped everything to plug in. And that's what we do. So UT's tagline is what starts here, changes the world. And TAC's tagline is Powering Discoveries that change the world. So we're all about impact. But I plugged in with a research group there at UT Austin, Dr. Lauren Myers, who's an epidemiologist. And just we figured out how to plug in and compute so that we could predict the spread of COVID-19. And you did that through the use of mobility data, cell phone signals. Tell us more about what exactly you were choreographing. Yeah, so that was really interesting. SafeGraph, during the pandemic, made their mobility data. Typically it was used for marketing purposes to know who was going into Walmart. You know, fences for advertising. Yeah, absolutely. They made all of their mobility data available for free to people who were doing research and plugging in trying to understand COVID-19. I picked that data up and we used it as a proxy for human behavior. So we knew we had some idea. We got weekly mobility updates, but it was really mobility all day long. You know, anonymized. I didn't know who they were. By cell phones across the US. By census plot group or zip code if we wanted to look at it that way. And we could see how people were moving around. We knew what their neighbor, their home neighborhoods were. We knew how they were traveling or not traveling. We knew where people were congregating and we could get some idea of how people were behaving. Were they really locking down or were they moving in their neighborhoods or were they going outside of their neighborhoods? What a fascinating window into our pandemic lives. So now that you were able to do this for this pandemic, as we look forward, what have you learned? How quickly could we forecast? What's the prognosis? Yeah, so we learned a tremendous amount. I think during the pandemic, we were reacting. We were really trying. It was an interesting time as a scientist. We were reacting to things almost as if the earth was moving underneath us every single day. So it was something new every day. And I've told people since I haven't worked that hard since I was a graduate student. So it was really daylight to dark 24 seven for a long period of time because it was so important. And we knew we were being a part of history and affecting something that was going to make a difference for a really long time. And I think what we've learned is that indeed there is a lot of data being collected that we can use for good. We can really understand if we get organized and we get set up, we can use this data as a means of perhaps predicting our next pandemic or our next outbreak of whatever it is. Almost like using it as a canary in the coal mine. There's a lot in human behavior we can use. Given all the politicization of this last pandemic, knowing what we know now, making us better prepared in theory for the next one. How confident are you that at least in the US we will respond proactively and effectively when the next one comes around? Yeah, I mean that's a great question. And I certainly understand why you ask. I think in my experience as a scientist, certainly at TAC, the more transparent you are with what you do and the more you explain things. Again, during the pandemic, things were shifting so rapidly, we were reacting and doing the best that we could. And I think one thing we did right was we admitted where we felt uncertain. And that's important. You have to really be transparent to the general public. I don't know how well people are going to react. I think if we have time to prepare, to communicate, and always be really transparent about it, I think those are three factors that go in to really increasing people's trust. I think you nailed it. And especially during times of chaos and disaster, you don't know who to trust or what to believe. And it sounds like providing a transparent source of truth is so critical. How do you protect the sensitive data that you're working with? I know it's a top priority for you and the team. It is, it is. And we've adopted the medical mantra, do no harm. So we feel a great responsibility there. There's two things that you have to really keep in mind when you've got sensitive data. One is the physical protection of it. And so that's governed by federal rules, HIPAA, FERPA, whatever kind of data that you have. So we certainly focus on the physical protection of it. But there's also sort of the ethical protection of it. What is the quote?  Yes, twain. Yeah, so you really have to be responsible with what you're doing with the data, how you're portraying the results. And again, I think it comes back to transparency. Is basically, if people are going to reproduce what I did, I have to be really transparent with what I did. Yeah, I think that's super important. And one of the themes with HPC that we've been talking about a lot too is do people trust AI? Do they trust all the data that's going into these systems? And I love that you just talked about the storytelling aspect of that because there is a duty. You can cut data kind of however you want. I mean, come from marketing background and we can massage it to do whatever we want. So in addition to being the deputy director at TAC, you are also the DEI officer and diversity, I know, is important to you, probably both as an individual but also in the work that you're doing. Talk to us about that. Yeah, I mean, I'm very passionate about diversity, equity and inclusion in a sense of belongingness. I think that's one of the key aspects of it. I got a computer science degree back in the 80s. I was akin to a unicorn in an engineering computer science department. But I was really lucky in a couple of respects. I had a father that was into science that told me I could do anything I wanted to set my mind to do. So that was my whole life was really having that support system. He was cheers to dad. Yeah, oh yeah. And my mom as well. Actually, they were educators. I grew up in that respect, very, very privileged but it was still really hard to make it. And I couldn't have told you back in that time why I made it and others didn't, why they dropped out. But I made it a mission probably back, gosh, maybe 10, 15 years ago that I was really going to do all that I could to change the needle. And it turns out that there are a number of things that you can do, grassroots. There are certainly best practices. There are rules. And there are things that you really, best practices to follow, to make people feel more included in an organization, to feel like they belong, it shared mission. But there are also clever things that you can do with programming to really engage students, to meet people and students where they are interested and where they are engaged. And I think that's what we've done over the course of our programming, over the course of about maybe since 2016, we have built a lot of programming at TAC that really focuses on that as well. Because I'm determined the needle is going to change before it's all said and done. It just really has to. So what progress have you made and what goals have you set in this area? Yeah, that's a great question. So, you know, at first I was a little bit reluctant to set concrete goals because I really didn't know what we could accomplish. I really wasn't sure what grassroots efforts was going to be able to do. You're so honest. You can tell how transparent you are with the data as well. That's great. Yeah, I mean, if I'm really, most of the successful work that I've done is both a scientist and in the education and outreach space is really trust relationships. If I break that trust, I'm done. I'm no longer effective. So yeah, I am really transparent about it. But what we did was, you know, the first thing we did was we counted, you know, to the extent that we could, what does the current picture look like? Let's be honest about it. Start where we are. It was not a pretty picture. I mean, we knew that anecdotally. It was not going to be a great picture, but we put it out there and we leaned into it. We said, this is what it is. We, you know, I hesitated to say, we're going to look 10% better next year because I'm going to be honest, I don't always know. We're going to do our best. The things that I think we did really well was that we stopped to take time to talk and find out what people were interested in. It's almost like being present and listening. My grandmother had a saying, you have two ears and one mouth for a reason. Just respect the ratio. Oh, I love that. Yeah, and I think it's just been building relationships, building trust, really focusing on making a difference, making it a priority. And I think now what we're doing is we've been successful in pockets of people in the center and we are getting everybody on board. There's something everyone can do. But the problem you're addressing doesn't begin in college, it begins much, much earlier. And there's been a lot of talk about STEM education, particularly for girls, how they're pushed out of the system early on, also for people of color. Do you see meaningful progress being made there now after years of lip service? I do, I do, but it is, again, grassroots. We do have a researcher who is a former teacher at the center, Carol Fletcher, who is doing research and CS for all. We know that the workforce, so if you work from the current workforce or projected workforce backwards, we know that digital skills of some kind are going to be needed. We also know we have a shortage. There's debate on how large that shortage is, but roughly about one million unmet jobs was projected in 2020, it hasn't gotten a lot better. We can work that problem backwards. So what we do there is a little like a scatter shot approach. We know that people come in all forms, all shapes, all sizes, they get interested for all different kinds of reasons. We expanded our set of pathways so that we can get them where they can get on to the path. All the way back K through 12, that's Carol's work. Rosie Gomez at the center is doing sort of the undergraduate space. We've got Don Hunter that does it, middle school, high school space. So we are working all parts of the problem. I am pretty passionate about what we consider opportunity youth, people who never had the opportunity to go to college. Is there a way that we can skill them and get them engaged in some aspect and perhaps get them into this workforce? I love that you're starting off so young. So give us an example of one of those programs. What are you talking to kindergartners about when it comes to CS education? You know, I mean gaming. Right, it's what everybody can wrap their head around. So most kids have had some sort of gaming device. You talk in the context of something they understand. I'm not going to talk to them about high performance computing. It would go right over their heads. And I think, you know, I'll go back to something that you said Paul about girls were pushed out. I don't know that girls are being pushed out. I think girls aren't interested in things that are being presented. And I think they leave. I think you're generous. Yeah, I mean I was a young girl and I don't know why I stay. Well, I do know why I stayed with it because I had a father that saw something in me and I had people at critical points in my life that saw something in me that I didn't see. But I think if we change the way we teach it, maybe in your words, they don't get pushed out or they won't lose interest. There's some sort of computing in everything we do. Absolutely. There's also the bro culture which begins at a very early age. Yeah, that's a different problem. That's just having boys in the classroom. Absolutely, you got it. That's a whole other thing. Last question for you, when we are sitting here, well actually, it's two-parter, let's put it that way. Is there a tool or something you wish you could flick a magic wand that would make your job easier? Can you identify the linchpin in the DEI challenge or is it all still prototyping and iterating to figure out the best fit? Yeah, that's a wonderful question. I can tell you what I get frustrated with, is that... That counts. Is that I feel like a lot of people don't fully understand the level of effort and engagement it takes to do something meaningful. The commitment to a program. The commitment to a program, and there is no one and done. No. And in fact, if I do that, I will lose them forever. They will be lost in this space forever. Rather, the engagement is really sort of time-intensive. It's relationship-intensive. But there's a lot of follow-up to you. And the amount of funding that goes into this space really is not equal to the amount of time and effort that it really takes. And I think what you work in this space, you realize that what you gain is really more of, it really feels good to make a difference in somebody's life, but it's really hard to do on a shoestring budget. So if I could kind of wave a magic wand, I would increase understanding. I would get people to understand that it's all of our responsibility. Everybody is needed to make the difference, and I would increase the funding that goes to the programs. I think that's awesome. Kelly, thank you for that. You all heard that. More funding for diversity, equity, and inclusion. Please, Paul, thank you for a fantastic interview. Kelly, hopefully everyone is now inspired to check out TAC, perhaps become a longhorn, hook them, and come deal with some of the most important data that we have going through our systems and predicting the future of our pandemics. Ladies and gentlemen, thank you for joining us online. We are here in Dallas, Texas at Supercomputing. My name is Savannah Peterson, and I look forward to seeing you for our next segment.


So here's the U30 and this is a this is a school tablet.  Yes, and can we look around the tablet high looks So you have with a case like this and it can close like there and It's for students and with the all winner a 30 83 t right so octa-corn here. Let's look around the UI This books a whole bunch of content This is cute cute. Yeah Let's click on cute. What happened if you click on cute And explodes of course, that's a cool Click on the robot the robot don't want the oh it changes colors and and so this is Android the Special UI with also normal Android right here and with a special pen. Can you try to take this out? Can you try to pull it out? Let's take it out Yeah, can you take it out like this? So with with the two GB RAM And 16 GB flash This is a high-end education style tablet with the digitizer and Nice looking and what is going on with the teacher here teacher user interface So many many schools all over China have this yes and And every every district everywhere. Yes, every all over China The teacher on your talent right


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