We have to be there. Okay. I was gonna move around. Good afternoon. We appreciate you Coming back after lunch on the last day of alt. I know three-day conferences are challenging for me They're probably challenging for lots of people. So I'm Donna I'm Laurie Phipps. I'm from JISC. I'm an anthropologist and So we're gonna talk to you today about Yes, that's why I wanted to move around Mike Oh This I can do this awesome We're gonna talk to you about a project that we've been working on for the last year. So we started doing this research in 20 What year is it? 2017 we started doing this work and this is the first time that we have been able to talk publicly about it. So we're very excited Yeah, so What we've done is we've been working with the sector what we did originally is we had the co-design process And a lot of people in this room will have been involved in that where we talked about the next generation digital learning environment Thank you. Me too for putting that on the bingo back of the bingo card We we looked at What the next generation of digital learning environments might might be and we asked some questions We asked what would an environment do for staff and students We asked what kind of learning experience Would an environment provide and we asked what learning and teaching practices aren't currently supported within the current crop of learning environments now we went through Several months of consultations with the sector. We talked to an awful lot of people I think we had something like seven thousand Twitter engagements and over a hundred blog posts were written about the next generation Digital learning environments during that period and not just from the UK. We had engagements from the US from Australia From Europe, especially Finland and Sweden I'm not sure why But we actually then started to pull all of this together into a retrospective of that particular aspect of next generation Digital learning environments and we started to sort of draw out some of the themes Current good practice was one of them because there's an awful lot of good practice that people are already doing People know how to use the environments. They've got right We started to see the emergence of large enterprise approaches lots of people were talking about the fact that Microsoft and Google and even Facebook had started to get involved in the learning environment space We started to look at the rise of the individual in terms of their practices Seeing lots of people like academics setting up their own for example slack channels For small cohorts of students and things like that We saw of course analytics writ large across the whole thing, but we saw analytics in lots of different guys We saw it in terms of what's going on in institutions and that reporting But lots of people were seeing the the benefits of analytics and how analytics can help support Some aspects of learning as well And there are various other emergent models that we'd started to pick up on So we started looking at that and I say we have lots of work around that These are some of the key things that came out of the report the emphasis on the administration of learning and teaching innovation in learning Technology we found tended to happen outside of the virtual learning environment according to what we were doing We also started looking at the changing behaviors of academics and the changing behaviors of students And that's where this report emerged from as a result of this consultation. We started looking at well What are the teaching behaviors of academics? I just want to emphasize something that we didn't do the previous slide this is Amplifying and advocating rather than discovery. So this is a piece of research And we're going to tell you the things that we think are going on But we're under no illusions that this is something that has never been said before So what we're trying to do is boost the voices That are coming through in our research not pretend that we've discovered this for the first time So I'm so bad at titles and my apologies to Becky for having to like read the title. This is the working title of the report And This is all the stuff we're trying to do we wanted to move away from a sense of Talking very specifically starting off with digital and we wanted to ground it in the behaviors of people who were teaching in the sector And the pitch that I made for the project was you can't talk about any sort of learning environment Until you've talked to people about what teaching is and what teaching practices are and what teaching means to them So this is what we did so over the course of the year We conducted 11 interviews. It's across the range of disciplines So we tried to get as wide a range as possible within quite frankly our convenient sample We put out a call to people to see who would talk to us And we we were really pleased with the the amount of diversity that we got with people who were senior in their institutions people who are very new in their institutions and it was he and Effie and Post-92 and Russell group and red brick. We tried to do all the things as best we could within our sample of 11 We took the interviews that we did and we processed them so that each Individual thing that a person said became a standalone statement and when all of those were printed out It was about 1500 things that people said about teaching For those of you who are in love with numbers And the analysis was not just done by myself and Laurie, but also in conjunction with a group Partners who we brought in to help us think through what we were getting a handle on here and so You will have access to the slide deck at some point But these these are the interview questions that we did and so what a contextual inquiry is that it's basically a very Specific way of dealing with structured and semi-structured interviews and the idea is that you interview people within their context So that you can learn in depth about what they're doing and why so that you can be there in their space Talking to them about their practice so that when they say well I tend to do this thing or I learned about it in this context You can point to the surroundings if that helps you you have this photo. What does this mean? I see you've got these books arranged on the shelf in a particular way What is that doing? So it is in context and so ethnographic ethnographic in that sense, but not sort of long Slow deep ethnography like a classic anthropologist would do and you can see it's very sort of wide-ranging questions about what is teaching Where do you teach? How did you learn how to teach? How do you talk about teaching with whom do you communicate about teaching in your practices? What's the role of research in the role that you have? How does that inform your teaching? What sort of support do you get for teaching? You will notice but nowhere in these questions. Do we say what kind of technology do you use when you teach? We never ask people direct questions about tech We started off asking them about teaching and I think that's important And it informs the way that people were willing to talk to us about their practices So just so you can see what it looked like in the analysis phase So what I would do is we would interview them sometimes as a team and sometimes myself alone I would take handwritten notes. So I was synthesizing at the time that I was interviewing them I would then go in and Transcribe my handwritten notes because after about 24 hours. I can't read my own handwriting anymore And then I would end up putting them in a spreadsheet So each as I've said standalone statement would be in the cell of a spreadsheet And then this is the code of the person who we were interviewing and then these thematic codes came later But they ended up in this in the spreadsheet. So this is what one piece of data looks like for this project So what we did is once we got all the data We printed out every single piece of data and then we cut it up into Small pieces of paper and put them in plastic bags. That's our research method We then brought together people in the sector teachers librarians researchers People from Gisk people from other NGOs instructional designers Yeah, and we said let's get together. Let's get in a room And let's look at the themes now We could have used a piece of software could have used something like in vivo to sort of try and elicit the themes And actually have an algorithm do that But what we found is by doing it this way We got people engaged with what was going on and here you can see a few people just sort of going through You can see this is just one wall of four walls of the data being analyzed so the big Post-its are the the large buckets of codes and then we would have smaller Sub-themes emerging and we would move things around we would have these things taped up And then we would sort of visit and revisit them. We'd say well I don't think this piece actually belongs in barriers. I think it belongs over in students We started very early in the morning and we finished very late and but we were very kind we gave them a sandwich lunch But we all of this sort of every piece of data We didn't finish all every piece of data had actually been put into a theme or a sub theme and The themes just kept changing and emerging so that as we sort of progressed through the day Rather than just having a simple output saying oh look all these are the big key words We wanted to have something that was more contextual that actually meant something to the people that were in the room So for you social scientists out there, we were doing grounded analysis We were not starting with a sense of the themes that we wanted to find We looked at all of the things and then saw what emerged from what we had And go through that and sort of pulling there so these are the Now there are a lot of themes you could see on that previous slide there are actually more themes there than I've actually put on this slide What we wanted to do for this report is get the first draft report and a published report out to the sector So we decided to focus on these five themes for this report. We still have masses of data for smaller sub themes as well And we picked these themes specifically to respond to the issues that came out of the NGDLE Community consultation so we felt like these are the ones that resonated best with the things that people were saying in the sector in the Previous piece of work that just so it followed on from the stuff that we were getting about the actual Technology that the actual digital learning environments. So once we focused on were teaching places where people actually do their practice students obviously Change innovation and risk Came through Massively, and I don't think we totally anticipated that I did Hashtag viral Organizational support for teaching and of course technology technology came through almost all of the Technology so, you know, this is very similar to what I say to libraries when they want to know what people think about libraries, right? Don't actually ask them about libraries. Yeah, so we didn't ask them about technology We didn't say tell us about the tech you use. Yeah, they just told us about the tech They used yes in both positive and negative ways, but they just it just came out because it's embedded in their practice, right? So I'll just run you through some of the kinds of things that that are sort of sub themes within these themes that the teaching places Theme had a lot of stuff in the conversations around what they don't have access to right? We don't have enough of the kinds of rooms that I want to be teaching in so they might be in a place where they have a Lot of lecture halls available, but they don't have as many rooms where the students can get up and move around and interact with each other They don't have flexible teaching spaces. And so they're stuck often with spaces like this even though they might want to do group work Access is not just for them, but also for students So not all teaching spaces or classroom spaces if students want to be in an environment where they're teaching each other for instance And can't have access to classrooms and don't have access to less structured learning spaces like lounges or collaborative Learning areas. This is a problem and they were aware that students can't always get into the kind of places that they want to be in To be able to learn Offices showed up as teaching places Offices are places where they interact with students one-on-one where they have confidential meetings and so this wave of Open plan offices and hot desking and academia is having a direct impact on the kind of work That academics can do with their students in safe spaces And so we had people coping with that lack of access to private spaces By scheduling so they might be sharing a space and so some people would say well I'm gonna meet with my students on Tuesday and you can meet with your students on Wednesday, and I'll make myself scarce So they were using calendar to Sort of you know adapt to the fact that they didn't have enough physical spaces other places here is off campus field trips going to Sites for ecology research and things like this So not all teaching places and you guys know this not all teaching places or classrooms I was really important to elicit that the range the landscape of teaching places that are relevant and And then what the implications of digital are for access to for enhancing For making these spaces work for them and especially for hacking spaces Students The notion that trust is a huge part of what they're trying to build when they're in these teaching spaces So the the trust is linked to the spaces because often what they would say is I really value going on field trips with my students I really value going on co-curricular activities with my students are Being in cafes and being in places where I'm not the stage on the stage Because then they'll talk to me about everything Assessment is frequently the tail wagging the dog. So a lot of their practices around teaching are informed by assessment This is important Came through the sense that the the hesitancy and what they put Online what they put into these digital systems might put them at risk if they capture all of my content If they have all of my lectures then maybe they don't need me anymore So the political situation of precarity in higher education is having a direct impact on the extent to which people want to Engage with technology and somebody did actually say to us Ed tech will replace us So this was during the strike as well. So it wasn't some sort of abstract notion. It was a real They actually said it visceral. Yeah, so I won't go through all of these But again, these are the sorts of things that we got Organizational support or lack thereof, right? There's not enough time. How can they build a network? How can they find people that they want to talk to about teaching when it's not built into their contracts? And the barriers they found were generally not technology ones as much as people bitch and moan about VLEs The barriers that people were talking about were other people I Think the other thing is one of the things that we picked up during the interviews Innovation seems now to be writ large in every institutional strategy Just show of hands. How many people have got innovation in teaching in their strategy? Yeah, okay It's important to distinguish that digital and innovation are not the same thing Okay, um, but it seemed to defaults about in some of these cases. We have people talking about really really traditional Things they were doing and we're using the VLE as Content depositories and again, this is familiar to you, right? That's not innovative It's digital But it's not particularly new or excited So the implications of what we've been doing This one very quickly There's a disconnect between what we provide institutionally for teachers to use What they actually want to do and what's possible? What we mean by that is is the institution provides a tool maybe says use this tool They then start using it But then it becomes invisible to them what they could actually do beyond That that thing and it becomes something that stifles the innovation So they're trying so hard to do what they want to do with the stuff that they've been provided that isn't actually a good fit They spend all this time hacking at what they are presented with that they never get to a point where they can actually imagine What's possible so if these circles started to overlap more people would have more access To the possibilities that are currently not visible and the invisibility would disappear. Yeah, and this is This came through very strongly as well And maybe we've heard some of this this week especially during the keynotes, but when you Mandate technology. It's not the same as supporting teaching When you say you will use this tool It's not the same as saying I am helping you in your teaching practice. What did trust you say? I make sure I've got a shell In the learning management system for each of my classes because that's what they told me I need to do But all of her active teaching practices were happening outside of the mandated institutional presence and Mandating technology is also not the same as innovation Yeah This is shot through everything and I think this is one of the most important themes to sit with when we're thinking about Why and how people make the decisions they make around teaching and it's not just about trust between instructor and student Although that was a big deal if the people working in your institution don't trust you And or trust the technology that you are in charge of as an instructional designer as a learning technologist They're not going to engage with you We all know that in it when you start delivering Teaching it's not just the teacher. It's the staff developers. It's the educational developers It's the people that are involved in curriculum design. It's the people that are involved in timetabling It's the learning technologists when you're trying to provide an holistic Experience and what we found people are telling us is that at any point at any point on that circle The trust is broken then things start to go wrong Yeah, if students go into a system that doesn't work They never go back if faculty have that experience with somebody who's supposed to be helping them They never go back if they try to upload a piece of content to a system and it fails They never go back. Yeah, so this needs to be kept in mind all of the time I know it doesn't surprise any of you, but I don't think we talk about it enough That's us. This is us and we have time for questions Just thank you so much for fitting that into 20 minutes. I feel like we could talk about that all day We've got 10 minutes for questions And we're gonna have Becky Do we have the Okay, not any online. So somebody in the room must you can do the me-too thing or we can Or we can We have roving Mike if someone wants to Here we go. It has a question You were talking about spaces They they did they did talk about digital spaces and we didn't have it up on that slide, but people talked about discussion boards People talked about social media as a teaching space And they also talked about digital spaces that they would not go into Because they wanted to make sure that students would interact with each other. So we had one Lecturer who had a space set up in social media where her students knew she was present and she would be there as a teaching presence But then she Encouraged them to set up a separate space that she was never going to go into because then they needed to do different things over there So absolutely digital is a place in these as well, but this yeah So we put physical spaces But even in the language that people were using talking about they were using words that you would describe As a physical space when we throw it to the digital right sometimes when they were talking about spaces You have to check where they are talking about right and but the same things around structured and unstructured spaces Institutionally supported spaces and non institutionally support that's true in physical as well as digital spaces So the themes cross-cut Whether it's digital or physical Thank you. Yeah, I think Catherine had a question and then we've got some coming in online. Oh, wow Okay, so the first one we've got here is you mentioned the main barriers were human not technological What were the main human barriers? Yeah, I mean just so a lot of it is if you if those people are not in your network You're not going to talk to them about your teaching So if they didn't identify anybody on their Institutional network as somebody that they could talk to about teaching They would try to find somebody that they went to a graduate school with or somebody that they would meet at a conference Or they would just sort of resign themselves to the fact that they didn't have a network Or they would sort of wish that they could do that No, it's the other thing about the the question was the barrier for what you It wasn't it was sometimes a physical barrier as well. It was the fact that they couldn't get time with somebody they couldn't I Don't want to place the audience But you know if you're in a university and there's only five learning Technologists, and you want to do something really innovative with learning technology Well, you know come see me at the end of the day when I've done all the jobs I'm supposed to do well and another barrier was quite frankly administrative higher-ups who didn't see the point Of engaging with technology for the sake of education, right? So so there wasn't any space being made by the leadership To to be able to engage in these sorts of things Yes, thank you Kind of alluding to what you said before down about you know You expected that notion about change to come up that thing So I'm not surprised at the names of the themes, but there's a lot of richness in what you're identifying within each Yeah, subtleties that I think are really important. So there are people in institutions who are aware of these and are trying to fight these battles So how do you anticipate this resource being used? That's that's you So I have hopes, but I don't know that's gonna come to pass The purpose for the report From my perspective of just is that we wanted to know how people teach There's lots been written lots been said we wanted to do it in this way to actually hear the voices of the teachers Rather than hearing second-hand voices or you know, we get lots of market research for example from vendors But we get lots of market research telling us we wanted to go into institutions and listen to the voices and You know for just to be able to say this is what teachers are telling us so that when we start looking at Things that we're doing next. We've got work on the intelligent campus We've got analytics writ large at JISC and we've also got some work coming up in the next generation digital learning programs when that works starts to Progress and starts to develop things that can be used in institutions Then we want this report to be able to influence that work.  This is going online It will be available as a resource and the data will be available as a resource for other people to interpret So my one my primary intention actually was to get these voices to JISC's attention and part of the reason We did the initial analysis the way we did it was to get people from that org into the room and Touching the data right at reading the words of the people who teach in the sector so that there couldn't be any What we think they say this or I've heard the people who teach think this but they were confronted with the words of Practitioners and it is my hope that that then will be kind of an antidote to the assumptions that often run through Some of the policy work in the sector So it was a it was a deliberate attempt to ground things in behavior Okay, so we've got about three minutes left and you've seen up there one of the questions is where can we read it? Well Where do we read important fall? So we're writing it up now. We're doing the implication Some of us have done all of the writing Some of us to write some recommendations The recommendations are being written now We are looking at releasing a draft for the community to engage with as well because once we've done this and we have We can now have a draft report at the moment We can now release the draft reports get more feedback from people that are in teaching places and give us more Feedback about what they are seeing and that feeds the richness and it keeps the dates coming But there will also be a full report republished This academic year as well. I did I wrote We've written most it was the first first draft of it was a 40 page report And now I think we've whittled it So we've got a couple of comments and questions about Academics and students sort of related so one is is their research on academics or students not going back if the tech fails I assume that means not going back to the tech and the other one that might relate to it is Was there any disconnect between students and teacher perspectives? So well, it's it's not a student-centered project It's a teacher-centered project So if anybody would like to work with me to get the funding to hire me to do the student learning Contextual inquiry I would be delighted to have a conversation with you about that So that that wasn't the focus of this particular one when it comes to the tech failing. Yes, there is research We've just done it if one person tells us that they went to the BLE and it failed That's research because if it's happened to one person, it's happened to more than one person We keep asking ed techs the same question. Well, have you got research to back this up? Yeah, have you about evidence? How often do we turn around to a lecture who stands in the front of a lecture theater and say Have you got evidence to say that what you're doing is effective? You know, yes, we've just been out and spoke to academics who said it failed. So I never went back It doesn't matter how many said it academics said it fails We didn't go back and how many times does the stuff have to fail before we? Give that message credibility like how many people have to decide that they're not going to engage with technology on campus Because it doesn't serve them or their students Sector to respond to that as an actual need So last one and this is kind of an interesting counter to what you've just said I think did you uncover any scenarios where digital was being used to increase trust? so Yes, yeah, and this I'm thinking about how in the in the sense that it proliferated the number of places where you could communicate with your students There was one practitioner in particular I'm thinking of who was very mindful about his social media presence as a way of breaking down barriers between students and Academics because sometimes it's hard for academics to frame themselves as people right because their teachers their authority figures And so he very deliberately curated of a mode in particular social media accounts To make connections with his students that he couldn't otherwise make in formal structured classroom environment Works really well Then bought fruit when he was doing field. Yes So when he was actually then out interacting with them in social situations in field work That actually was was manifest But he was super mindful about it and he was never into the impression that just because he has a social media account That that got him in good with his students It was about what he did with his presence online that made the difference. It was carefully curated He was aimed students. Yeah I'm afraid we're out of time. That's okay. Donna and Laurie's contact details are up there if you want to chase them up for more information Thank you very much. Thank you


Okay All right. Thanks for coming everyone We're gonna start try to stay on time We are the big finale but actually I'm John Zanos I'm with canonical and You've been to yeah, and I'm Toby Ford from AT&T We're also both board members on the open stack board and We decided to attack the subject of NFV and open stack and open source. So We're going out big with the big subject at the end of the day What we hope to do is give you a sense of where we see challenges how we think things are evolving and also Look for your help and your support and your input Through the course of what we're trying to do with open stack NFV and what we're trying to do with neutron sure so One of the big questions that we have with regard to supporting NFV in the telco context is how how much can open stack do and I think in the open stack community itself This is a challenge is what what is exactly the scope? What is it going to look like and how how big is it going to be? You know as we show here is is it in the end just going to be a set of API's and a whole lot of vendor plugins to make it Work or is it going to actually have implementations that are meaningful and that can scale to the telco use cases? Is it going to devolve into some type of standards body then because if it's just API's then It's just a long discussion about how how the API's evolve Hopefully not. I think open stack has been a very good example of how you can evolve a system with practical Deployments with practical code to actually make an API that's built from real evolution. Yeah, and we think You know, we have this question of is it going to try to be the ex service of everything Is it going to try to solve all network management problems? You know at the end of the day, is it going to be the mother of all open source projects? We all know it's grown rapidly We're all contributing it's moved faster than any other open source project ever And I think lastly we're trying to stop some of the insanity. You know, this is a project that's moving so fast We're wondering if we're going to drive our all all of ourselves insane given that when you overlay NFV SDN Open stack, how do we do this? And what we are proposing is some concepts that really are designed to kind of put things into a Much more manageable box to some degree make things a little bit more sane This was my okay So when you look at the telecom telecom industry, it's going through rapid rapid change New challenges new opportunities new evolution new competitors And it's forcing this industry faster than ever before to rethink its fundamental premises How does it operate? How does it take cost out of the equation and lastly? How does it live in a new world where there's different competitors different opportunities and more importantly different models? Yeah, exactly. And when when we look at the competitors that we're at we think we're gonna have to be working against in the future if you look at Google Fiber or Google Loon or Some of the things that Amazon Netflix do in the TV space. These are clearly coming for what we're doing So and when we look at them the track record they have in terms of Efficiency just taking like this metric of how many devices Can be managed by one person We are at a significant disadvantage. We have hundreds of thousands of people doing what Really could should be a much larger scope and this I think this is a broad Problem across of the telco industry. How can we get away from some of the old concepts? of operations and move on to the some of the newer concepts without Obviously risking the stability of the environments that everybody uses today So we recognize I want to step on this side the way the stage is set up. It's a little awkward being so close to Toby Even though I like Toby The reality is you're seeing a very different model, right a model where Scale-up appliances were structured for stability familiarity And rock solidness innovation Happened happened in five-year cycles This new world is a very different world looks like this innovation happens And the world we live it happens every six months probably happens every week Just takes us six months to kind of let a new release come out Incredibly fast incredibly different than the multi-year five-year six-year seven-year planning cycle of a traditional telecom Now in a wire line world that was an absolutely rock solid decision the fact that we all can turn on our cell phone in China, New York, London, Paris, and it works seamlessly is in upon itself an accomplishment that we shouldn't minimize and When we go to bed pray to all the telecoms that it works again tomorrow, but it's a very different model than this model Yeah, so today in the typical telco space We're using Essentially what what I think of is an equivalent to using mainframe computers very vertically integrated boxes that come from one or two vendors or three vendors that do a whole lot of Scaled function, but it's typically one function and typically things that also when you look at it from an IT lens is Duplicative of what we've already solved for so like take one of these examples a session border controller It is essentially a firewall and a load balancer for SIP traffic This I think could easily be replaced not just by Taking the session border controller and virtualizing it and getting all the benefits of consolidation and stuff that we've gotten out of Virtualization over the last ten years, but also possibly even being part of a SDN service chain so that we're not having to Have something unique and special to manage, but it's actually part of the fabric itself So the shortcomings of the existing setups We can't underestimate the the challenge that we have of moving on to the Moving them on to a new platform while keeping them running So we have in our world the challenge we think about all the time is do we add Augment these with virtualization To the side or do we do a completely net new thing and start over again? Do we wait for 5g to happen or do we wait for? Maybe some acquisitions to be finished before we start this process Or do we dive in now and try to get the benefits that we see have happened? Not just because of virtualization And like I was saying consolidation high asset utilization and moving faster But also the benefits that we see in terms of the ecosystem Can we get the benefits of the PC revolution? The Linux revolution and the open-source revolution that has happened over the last 30 years And I think of I think open-stack as kind of the pinnacle of that work is how do we Actually maintain a project that has many federated Aspects that work together, but very independently and move fast and move fast very quickly that evolutionary model that we've created though Scares the telcos it scares us how how can we? Rely on something that's moving quickly And it's continuously deployed and is very agile at the same time we maintain high levels of nines For your phone service So it's interesting right we're talking about speed and stability innovation and you know Planning and operational efficiency, but at the end of the day the benefits are very big very big for us as end users of this technology Because we see the innovation. We're all using the innovation It's very big for the telcos because you get a benefit just from the commoditization of the hardware We can debate the percentages, but we think the hardware is a minimal impact That's compared to a benefit from virtualization, but if you just hit the button Toby the big play out is here, right? We're changing the operating model So think of it what we are talking about is a metric of how many machines managed by a person if you look at the Google the major cloud providers. We're talking thousands hundreds by an individual the ratios are much much lower in the average telcom so It's not only about innovation and speed But it's about fundamental P&L impacts and as you all know if you read anything in the Wall Street Journal the financial times This is an industry that is changing competing in a very competitive market and also trying to figure out how to make investments at the same time Bringing forward innovation and at the same time Competing against companies that didn't have the legacy burden of running a wireless and wireless network The responsibility to make sure your cell phone works in New York as well as in Shanghai as well as Anyplace else in Africa, right? This is a model that was built on stability and in a framework of Solid planned innovation now they're in a world that is all about rapid rapid rapid Yeah, no to add to that I think if you gave me a hundred really good people and Enough capital. I think you could reproduce what a telco does Fairly readily, but that's not really the challenge that I have the challenge is all about taking Thousand person ten thousand person ops teams and getting them to Think differently to to realign their paradigms This is a much bigger challenge than that that I believe than the actual technology But I believe strongly that the open-source model and the community around let's say open stack and other open-source projects like Linux and like other Projects that are just now coming to bear Can help make this work better work faster and provide examples for how we can make this change So this is a picture brought to us by our friends at Etsy one of the standards bodies That we work with very closely to help with getting all the telcos to think in a similar way around how things work We helped to drive this Concept within Etsy to try to at least at the beginning Standardized nomenclature for what pieces are now there's still a lot of argument that maybe this isn't exactly right But I think it does provide at least Some very common terminology that we can use to talk about what needs to happen And especially for me. I focused primarily on the underlying NFVI or the infrastructure of NFV and how to solve for this piece And then in this area open stack plays a very significant role as well as do SDN providers and as well as a number of other entities that are do workflow and operational management tools Maybe for you we get off this so, you know, if you look at this you recognize where open stack fits in You know where there's elements of Open-source projects and there's also a very important opportunity for Application automation and management and there's a number of projects right and a number of communities as well as individual companies attacking this where We see a lot of benefit is The open-source community trying to attack these problems But we also see some risk and some of the risk is this is the whole watermelon of the problem, right? So it's a complex problem to take a telecom from where it is today like AT&T to this end state is In one swoop is a very daunting problem We think the way you need to approach it is look at it as iterative steps and a little bit of what we're going to be Talking through the remainder is trying to coach all of us as a community to think about this in digestible blocks And that's the important point right because right now if you look at this project This project for any telecom is the holy grail of end state But actually implementing it in one big swoop is just not even on the table Yeah, and another point to add here too is Clearly in the past when we ran the physical versions of these network functions They each came with their own orchestration and management tooling. I Think there's a great opportunity right now not just to make that more cohesive or contiguous Want more homogeneous making this as much simpler model, but also to kind of bring in innovation Like say instead of traditional BPEL or BPM tools Instead maybe think more broadly and using paths tools and be more part of the developer Lifecycle and how they work and how they bring code into the picture So making this this is very helpful for an operational person in a telco to understand how things change But I think how we bring the developer into this picture is going to be equally important So, you know Toby said an important thing and it's a word I think historically hasn't been used in the telcom industry as much as it is now and that's developer Right a lot of the innovation we're talking about is now encapsulated in software as compared to the appliance and a lot of the innovation is helping the telcos make this Transition to you know virtualization of next network functions Now as we've talked about not all these are easy not all these lend themselves immediately to scale out There's some steps some evaluation But at the end of the day to bring that innovation on top of the network to bring those new features to the end users What we are talking about is a development exercise and that's being deployed through the exercise of some communities Some of it's proprietary, but all of it is software oriented. You want to hit the second point Yeah, and then it what we've seen within open stack is an example I went through yesterday was about the VLAN trunking issue is I think and it provides a good Good sort of use case to look at and has how open stack Needs to evolve The people within the community need to be more aware of the NFV use cases and what what kind of challenges we have This particular one represents Unfortunately sort of a legacy concept that has to be brought forward it for an interim period of time Until we get to a maybe a longer-term vision where the vnfs are truly Cattle-like or scale out. This is one of those things which people have not universally agreed with But is essential for us to make progress and to be able to deploy today So this is an example where both we need to kind of think differently think more broadly about the use cases for what open stack can do but also Working with a new set of people new set of specialties around telco and and and a new set of vendors like Erickson's ALU's and then also Helping those companies that provide vnfs to evolve their platform to be more scale out So so at the end of the day one of the things we're advocating and we're Encouraging to the extent we both can and our respective companies can is we recognize this NFV network Virtualization is a very daunting problem as we said and not easily digested by any telcom of any size But we do think there's a path forward one. We believe you can get to a Purpose-built NFV so NFV in its broadest sense is about all the functions of the network or the vast majority But you can deploy NFVs in very discreet areas where maybe you're focusing on one or two or three functions Why is that important? That's important that it allows you at least to get Into it in a digestible way in a p-sets manageable. The second part is we do think this is possible via Manageable open-source collaboration though We wrestled with these four or five words because they always don't line up together But the idea that if we can get ourselves as a community looking at the problem in definable chunks and then attacking them as definable chunks Not just attacking the total problem even though that's probably the more interesting problem We can make it iterative steps forward and that's probably going to be more important in the foreseeable future both in terms of actually having impact within the telecoms and also in terms of doing something that's actually achievable and that we can see the results and Proof out the benefits that we all believe exist with virtualizing the network Yeah, and as as John is saying for us. We're not going to try to do a whole mobility system Right away. We're going to try to take pieces and parts and focus on let's say a small enterprise set of customers To begin with and then try to make progress there with a subset and then move on and gradually iteratively get to the broader set of function that we're getting to or needing to address so in general the open-stack collaborations that we've had to start certainly to me start with code and working together as a teams but Within a telco. It's it's been a bit of a challenge and I believe it's true for more than just AT&T is actually Convincing people that you need to apply resources and developers that actually can can make a difference and then participate in it without all the normal encumbrances of old companies like IP and and and certain sort of Challenges with competitors and such this this idea of working outside of AT&T is really unique it's very much a type of Environment where everything is about what you're doing today within your organization Opening up and being more aware of what's happening outside is is a very new phenomena for the telco So it starts with that and it always starts with that and then obviously there's legal challenges with licenses and such that we're hopeful that You know we can pivot the lawyers to the right in the right direction Obviously beyond that is about partnership with an ecosystem You know and I think John and I represent some small subset of that Yeah, I think you know the other thing coming from the side that a company that's DNA is based in open source You know we recognize that this is a pretty big pivot for most telecoms You know that pesky IP thing gets in the way of a lot of discussions, but we recognize that what we've done We've opened up Our technology our software make the code available all the stuff we do and open source projects And we team with the telcos to help them navigate that understanding and build a degree of confidence and comfort in doing that very thing so Manageable collaboration is easily said challenging to do and the only way we think we move forward successfully is You know to use open stack as an illustration We continue to build up the number of telcom developers that feel like they're unable to be very active active Toby's done a great job of representing that helping them understand that you know getting together on IRC and talking through The problems they're having with code isn't giving away the family secrets to the other guy who happens to have a V in front of his name as compared to an a you know that evolution is Going through in a very thoughtful way within the telecoms because there is as we pointed out in the beginning a very competitive Landscape, but I think the benefit and again the reason we think about this as kind of purpose-built NFV Is that we want to create little proof points that demonstrate the model works? And then the other thing is this comment Not that I think the telecoms are imperfect but like all of us they have a couple challenges of evolving in this model and This is an area where we as people that live in an open source Community or the business model that is open source need to recognize that you may be dealing with somebody that's going through a bit of internal Evolution and while their intent is to be very active. They may have constraints internally that are pulling them one way or the other Exactly, you know when I began at AT&T Open source was outlawed and then you couldn't get the IRC from inside the network and hopefully We've made progress in that regard over time and it's also Contributing code using github or or something of the like that was completely unheard of In fact, we didn't even use get or anything like it before that. So this is Something that we've we've moved on from I think Now one of the things that we're struggling with and this is partly my ask to this group today is you know Where does it go from here? How do we what are the next steps or what do we participate in and to make this work to actually? Build on what OpenStack is done. Did that mean? Bringing in all sorts of other open source projects Working with them and then trying to integrate things You know, I think I'm right now as as I begin the steps into OP NFV I kind of have existential question is How much can we get these different groups and also the vendors that go along with them? to actually work together and collaborate obviously there's a lot of of Motivation given the trillions of dollars that the telco space represent but for me This is a very complex story when we try to put it all together Yeah, well we when we compare notes. It's an interesting problem for all of us, right because It's like puppies. They're just keep propagating and propagating and we all get the calls and Toby and I talk about it Can you participate in this? Can you assign some engineers in that? Where the future where the future will collaborate with everybody and it's it's a challenging thing when you think of the talent pool Is it? Limitless right there's talent that we want Dedicated and focused on complex problems and as a community where we Propagate so many efforts that are slightly different but near same we create a problem of distributing our focus now This is also where innovation occurs, right? So this is a very careful type rope to walk because The separation and multiple efforts have created a lot of innovation that we've all been part of but what we're recognizing in NFV is Given the size of the opportunity and the magnitude of the space under the telecoms of the world there's a Rapid propagation that we need to be careful about because what happens is we distribute ourselves into many many projects We distribute our efforts our resources our dollars and we're wondering collectively But I'll say just Toby and I are we helping or hurting the problem? Exactly now. I feel like in some cases obviously I want to see innovation continue And I like the idea of a person starting something up and making progress But at the same time if you look at the problem globally and across the tocos There's actually in many cases a lot of redundant work if you look at just take SDN as an example at some point I find that we're actually only perpetuating maybe our ego or You know, there's I made this and so I want to see this baby grow that at some point Defies logic and makes everything very dilutive and so I think in many areas We have to really challenge yourself and justify is what I'm doing really differentiated or not And then help because as much as you know an agile when we iteratively build everything At some point we have to refactor and in in this space across all of what we're doing I think that's probably a good idea for us to look at and can we refactor some of these projects Yeah, and I think that the thing that we also want to support is where there is differentiation being created and real innovation We absolutely want to put support and focus around those efforts now if we all had the perfect magic ball We would know that at the beginning of the process, which is hard, but we certainly should watch it very carefully But if you do have a proprietary thing For us that has to be wrapped with interfaces and in a way that allows us to to work within open source projects It cannot be an independent thing The days when we bought a an entire solution to this problem from one vendor is gone It's going to be a very You know many vendors and many different solutions that actually solve this problem, right? so we wanted to use an Example and this is an example because it's gotten a lot of recent focus, but we look at this and we say You know the many more and many efforts and doing many things and the question that we've been wrestling with is Is it the answer? Is it making things better? Is it not now? Everybody can have their own perspective But we do think you know we should be asking these very questions and most importantly when we allocate resources How are things progressing and how are they not? Exactly, so this is one of the existential problems that I'm wrestling with right now is Can I even explain how I can make? Or why I would make a cloud stack work with a day open daylight with a zen You know and what are all the different permutations that we really meaningfully want to test? I Like this idea I think it's going to be helpful But the question is is it going to be helpful enough quickly enough and is it going to be too complex of a problem to solve for? Where where do I even begin and so that's What we're wrestling with this doesn't make sense in the end right and again this gets to this concept of purpose-built NFV or more importantly Manageable definable projects that actually have a chance of reaching some sort of coalesce conclusion in a foreseeable future And actually resulting in something deployed that can be used exactly so in the end, you know, I think We we absolutely need the help and then I think in a number of ways, you know We we I I want to accentuate the part of about open stack that is a standard API I really like the idea of a multitude of solutions in the open stack community Some of which are pure native implementations, but then others where creativity is involved But as long as the APIs are standard and consistent then that what happens behind the scenes can be continually Innovated so, you know, we've made good progress in the foundation on def core and ref stack and the like But that I find to be typically It is good progress, but it is somewhat biased toward the implementation side And then whereas I'd like to see and we're making progress here in the next period of time Taking that and then making it more about a trademark for API compatibility, which I think will have much broader Applicability to the problem So this is the part where Toby and I decided to step a little close to the edge of the ledge and at least try to give What we think as two individuals some guidance, you know, certainly We are all aware that neutron has a number of shortcomings We think the right way to attack it is to focus on the API side of it and let other people plug in it and expose more Network functionality we we believe NFV is a big proposition that we should all be focused on and spend time thinking about But at the same time we think we should break it into Chunks that are manageable digestible and actually implementable and demonstrate and proof out the value that we all believe is in there And not get so caught up in solving the mega problem that in two years from now. We haven't moved forward at all And I want to leave us with one one possibility that that I've been considering is Given the track record of OpenStack, can it actually be the center of gravity and then can we maybe Flatten some of these outside efforts into OpenStack so that it can maybe more broadly solve for Network issues as of one example. Yeah, and I think at the end of the day You know we view this as a big we problem and big and big challenge not everybody can have the same opinions And not everybody needs to have them. We wanted to do a couple things in this session One at least share some perspective of what's going out there Give some ideas at least how we wrestle with it not that that's the perfect solution or the only solution and try to put Some guardrails on the conversation at least from our perspective We hope you found it helpful We're happy to answer any questions we're certainly here today and tomorrow and Please feel free to Step up to any of us and give you to your opinion good or bad and thanks for your time All right, any any questions if you have a question. There's two microphones here in the front in the back It will be this is Shrikant from HP question on the NFE value proposition how much of it is hinged upon the VNF's being really written for an NFP word and I don't mean just replicating VMs for a scale of To create a cattle scenario, but essentially being taught off in the new NFP paradigm that's Question number one and the question to a week Yeah, so the first thing I think there's gonna be an interim state and we can get value out of NFV Without going all the way But I'm hopeful before we implement something Significant like a 5g or the next generation TV platform that those platforms are end up being designed in a more More integrated and more scale out model. So Okay, the second question. Okay. Yeah We've heard yesterday. I think it was multiple flavors of Android and there was an analogy drawn for Multiple flavors of open stack. Do you see an NFV flavor for open stack? kind of Becoming more and more popular or do you want to just keep everything? I Think it's inevitable that there's gonna be an NFV flavored open stack distribution of some kind whether or not we make it or Another telco makes it or that's the actual output of opnf V I think that part's inevitable, but I'm hopeful that We can actually work together so that there's not a lot of those I Would just add one point. I think we've talked about this We want to keep a very strong core of open stack the core and other things so you don't have you have the Improvement around the edges, and you don't have so many propagations of different models that portability and interoperability is lost in the process right now Rod Randall from Cirrus Capital one of the things that has come out in a number of conversations is That there are a large number of virtual network functions that would be implemented in a substantial Implementation of NFV many of which have their own Management and orchestration in the presentation just before you guys came on the presenter from Stefan from from Deutsche telecom Mentioned that they decided that orchestration should have only one owner in terms of actually deciding resources and That all of the individual functions needs to sort of request from the broad view of Orchestration who then will resolve all the issues and allocate all of the components As I understand it open NFV hasn't chosen to take that on should that be something that should be standardized Or is that an area for innovation and if innovation comes with a difference from how it's being Being viewed. How do you see integrating that into the into the real world of making these things work? Sure So my view is a little bit different. I think that's a that is maybe a goal But the interim between now and then is going to be very much of a patchwork of different BNF managers and right now open FV is not dealing with the the BNF manager problem at all I think in a way that provides an opening for innovation to happen And I'm very hopeful that as I said in the presentation that we start to take on More paths like and developer friendly concepts because in the end the goal is is more of a DevOps model or infrastructure As a code model rather than just perpetuating the same Same wacky belief that a business analyst is going to be able to to configure a whole system in a in a BPEL tool And you know the one thing I would add is in my conversations with the telecoms Toby's point about being more past centric or developer centric or dev ops centric is a important evolution that's going on So when you think of the holy grail of solving that problem and innovation It changes very differently if you think of it in a dev ops model as compared to a traditional telecom model from an operations perspective And I think the the real opportunity for innovation is if you look a couple steps out And we think the first couple steps that we said are some smaller Finable projects, but ultimately if you want to solve that problem Start thinking about it from the perspective of a developer who's creating new Code to create new value to the end user as compared to running a network Right. I got you. Okay. Thank you. Yes. So best call and I'm from the V Please come up And and I'm a I'm a big proponent that we do need to get more involved in in this But but I'm struggling with you know, just the not invented here kind of attitudes And and I think also and I'm sure you run into this as well that The way that it services are developed and delivered or is it different? You know, it's a different balance things are in different locations in the organization and I struggle with well Why did you do that that was a stupid thing to do you think think it through, you know, sure No, I mean in with an AT&T we have the same not invented here issue now in some cases I think there's it's justified if we have real unique something unique and that's fine, but Understanding and this might where my external content Concept comes out is a willingness to look outside to say wait a minute What are other people doing and then really understanding what is differentiated or not? That's that's one part of it for us And I was just saying this John earlier today is about the I've been at AT&T for eight years and I've been on a kind of a constant Journey to try to converge efforts And I've gotten through like maybe five or six clouds to be all part of one thing because I honestly believe without being all Part of one common infrastructure will never have be cost effective But still there's four or five more to go. So are you gonna share your?   What's in AT&T. I have a challenging stupid thing It's so classic So we we added a new product and we we changed the billing to was a new way of billing things and Business analysts put together the requirement and the IT person, you know Wrote up the code and they forgot that if you're going to do usage-based billing 1,000 is not the same as 1,024 Yeah You know I would add because we deal with Telecoms across the world and and I think there's a couple elements to this as well one is a lot of difference per Geography per culture right and this pace of evolution in terms of the internal thinking It's very different. So as a community you have to be sensitive to Somebody in Verizon may be different than somebody in Deutsche telecom that may be somebody different in sing-tell compared to NTT and I should point out we all do talk to each other Well, you know the interesting thing I think ultimately there's a model to be replicated right the reason the wire line world works isn't because everybody ran a Wire everywhere right you have your arrangements with other telecoms And I think it's interesting from somebody that's in the open-source world that you were able to navigate as an industry Making those relationships and then in this cloud word world. You're a little bit more sensitive of your IP I think that's actually driven by a little bit of fear and newness But you have a great model that you've already executed completely sex successfully in the wire line and wireless business to allow calls to happen around the world and one of the things we've talked a little bit about is how do you Allow that model to propagate itself amongst the telecoms Again in this new community base open-source world. Yeah, I'll relate this story John's referring to is and it's actually a beautiful surprise not not necessarily stupid, but I Didn't mean any offense. We recently reworked to be a much simpler organization and then And nowadays I own some part of cloud architecture and someone called me up and was in a confessional mood and said You know Toby we forked off of your open-stack setup two years ago And we built out this environment. It's now deployed in 12 data centers, and then I Know you don't know about this, but that that was by intent So certainly not stupid, but a good illustration of the different pockets and the size of telco Question is on devops you mentioned devops few times yes during the time so the question is it is One thing to have continuous integration continuous development DevOps type of flow for the services that AT&T is developing or the any operator is developing But do you see the same thing applied to network functions? virtualized network functions, and if so, how do you? Yeah, see it working with multiple vendors who are supporting this network functions or supplying the network functions to you Well, one thing as a base to answer your question about applying devops NFV I mean, I'm a strong proponent that you cannot achieve a resilient system without having Some aspects that you need to make continuous integration deployment work right you need complete test Coverage you need complete automation of testing. This is actually for us helps tremendously Beyond what we were doing before we were very manually targeting testing and that that takes years sometimes to You know one of our systems we just went live with it took us five years to implement because of the testing involved And that's that that old way goes away when you have continuous integration now The idea of deploying all the time and such that's going to take work And so that's one of my challenges of vendor community around us is how do we how do we work together? to to bring things into a sort of a common Repository and then build and deploy off of that in a reliable consistent way. I mean, that's that's a big challenge So and and I think ultimately you got to recognize that the telecoms are competing against a much bigger world Right and the benefits of devops They see him every day in their competition. They see him in the innovation that's happening in other places So that balance has to be struck, but but they're in a car, right? That's running very fast against other cars So, you know our advice always to the telecoms is don't become so inwardly focused that you worry about it as compared to how you Did it yesterday the really question the real question is how are you doing it compared to everybody else that you're competing with and If you're not able to run fast enough and keep up Even though you may have a bias or preference or you're worried about stability You may not have the luxury to hang on to that model I think we're probably at up. Yeah, I apologize. We're going over next thing has to happen Feel free to come up and ask questions. Thank you very much. Thank you


How did we come to be? Above all else, what's our purpose? The fact remains that when we think deeply to the beginning of our existence, there must have been intervention, and this is where God comes in. The first being who created human beings, but who created God and so forth. The beginning of perception, which sparked intelligent thought, it happened before the Cataclysmic Squatter Man event and happened again after, according to historic perceptions. But how much is truth and how much is lies to keep the people in check? When we attend mass, we gather. Our grouping becomes massive and a priest or speaker for God tells us the holy truth. Tells us about God and the beginning of time. The life of prophets, of the Messiah, of events that certainly happened. But who are we to ever question the word of the Lord? Wait, do you hear this? So vivid was the great father's celestial image, and so overpowering was his influence on civilization in its infancy that the ancient chroniclers often gave him human form. Recalling him as the first man, but he was no mortal of flesh and blood in his original character. He upheld the cosmos as the heaven man, a celestial giant whose body encompassed all the gods and composed the primeval matter of creation. The great father reigned over the prosperous age and then departed, aimed great upheavals. The mythical accounts give this imposing figure such tangible and human traits that more than one scholar reduces him to a living man. An esteemed tribal ancestor whose heroic exploits succeeding generations progressively enlarged until the entire universe came under his authority. This is the approach of William Ridgway, who in a survey of the best-known figures of the great father argues that only an actual tribal chief could have left such a profound imprint on primitive communities. Ridgway asks us whether the abstract sky or the solar orb or a vegetation spirit, common explanations of the great father could produce such devotion as is evident in the annual lamentations over the ruler's catastrophic death. Osiris, Brahma, Tammuz, Ketsukwadal, their devotees remember each as a living ancestor whose passing was a terrifying calamity. Of course, Ridgway does not assume that one man alone accounts for all the traditions of a great father. Rather, he seeks to identify each in terms of a historical figure quite distinct from the venerated ancestors of other tribes. If his arguments against prevailing astronomical and vegetation theories carry great weight, they fail to explain the global parallel between the respected myths. Nor can one reconcile Ridgway's interpretation with the incontrovertible fact that in the earliest accounts the great father is manifestly cosmic. That many sacred histories, however, present the creator king and human form is a paradox requiring an explanation. The solution lies in the nature of the legendary first man, but what do you guys think about the idea of a first person? Comments below and as always, thank you for watching.


Hi everyone Sean with jaspys case breaks calm here doing 2020 bowman draft baseball eight box jumbo case break pick your team number Seven on release day. Here is our case And our finalists mark nation last spot mojo st. Louis Cardinals Oliver I gave you a Last spot mojo for the Dodgers too. I guess it just wants you to have some extra luck on there Interesting. I don't remember putting that on there, but that's okay Just trying to get you extra luck. So first part of the break It's gonna be me ripping all of this open So you can skip ahead if you're watching this video on delay If you don't want to watch any of it by all means check the comments in the bottom of or not comments the description of the break video in the bottom and You'll see an option Should say Recap and you can just get straight ahead to that Sam says is the best part I feel like this is like watching the sausage get put into the casing It's like fascinating but at the same point it's like I like sausage. I don't need to see it be made You know But this is cool too because this gives me a chance to if I see like What's it called? Maybe if I see a super frack there I can Click bait you guys and be like, oh Oh, we got a super Or like that last one of the breaks. I saw a red Damn red. I made that last the very last box that we went through be the one to add the red in it I'm not dumb. I know how to keep people on the edge of their seat I know it sells the tickets I feel like I'm gonna hit a super fracker this year And it's a another super fracker, but this time it draft And I feel like it's going to be a redemption like I did for a regular bowman from last year So every box is going to be broken down into two stacks one strictly chrome What super fractor do I want to hit sam if I get to pick I'd like to hit all of them for all of the customers But I mean To make waves in the industry obviously spencer torkelson Super fractor auto. I mean any of the top end guys Super fractures are going to be what we want to hit. I just want to hit a super fracker Once you hit one you can start being picky until then you're just another guy open up packs Cool part is honestly guys. I think we can keep going after this too Because by the time we're done with this it's going to be about 8 8 a.m on the east coast And like I said all the all the other breaks in this are all Single digits and I have no problem continuing When did I hit my first super fractor? On air the first super fractor I pulled was from tops chrome last year On a case break it was a mic trout super fractor part of the 35th anniversary like looking set So it was the 1985 trout And it was a obviously one-on-one super fractor That was the first super fractor I pulled Yeah, that's an angel span. It was pretty cool kind of uh It kind of froze up for a minute. I was like, oh Then last year out of bowman chrome I pulled the super fractor redemption for isaac paredas auto redemption That was the first super fractor auto I pulled and then out of tops chrome sapphire no Bowman sapphire one of them I pulled uh I pulled two pad parochas. They don't do super fractures and in In a sapphire. I pulled two pad parochas in one break, which are the one-on-one versions of those I pulled a black one of one also from I think bowman Yeah, the crazy part was Sam. It was only five boxes of that of uh sapphire And out of those five boxes I think I think those had crosses out of all the boxes that we did in store Whether it was personals and case breaks out of all of them. Oh We got a plate one of one plate There you go Um Stay tuned one of one plate in there. I don't know if it's an auto Or if it's just a plate, but we'll find out. Um Out of all the boxes that we had done of sapphire Those were the only two Pad parochas that were pulled I think out of all of the breaks we did And all the personals and they were happened to be in one five box break randomly I was like, that's crazy And we opened lots of boxes of that Couldn't keep enough of that in the store It did Gary It just it just finished. It should be uploading It probably hasn't uploaded yet, but it's probably in the process of uploading. We're actually doing seven right now um eight nine ten 11 and 12 all in the store are in single digits. So we're still trying to work on getting those done The videos are pretty long Gary um So you can either wait for it to upload or try to scroll back in the live feed That you're watching right now And you can kind of go back into that honestly If we don't if we don't have to probably not I mean They're moving All these like like I said, we're down to seven Seven teams eight teams on all of them so If we can avoid doing pack fillers for them, we're gonna avoid doing pack fillers Because what'll happen is we'll do well if we set up a pack filler. Let's say for breaks eight and nine Honestly, it'll take longer for that pack filler to sell out Then it would for break 10 to sell out straight up and then we'll end up doing pack 10 to break 10 And then we'll end up the pack filler probably fill out and we'll end up having to go back to do breaks eight and nine It just gets all wonky and people are like, oh That should have been my case with the spencer torkelson superfractor and blah blah blah You know And the biggest thing is the most expensive team the the detroit tigers are taken in every single one of the breaks So that elephant is already gone So there's nothing that should keep us from being able to do the rest of them and we have hot cases Uh, it it carried a little bit over midnight. But yeah, it's it's done with now No, Sam Um, a bunch of people random got got the tigers and a bunch of different breaks Yeah I know matt was in the chat a little while ago. He he bought the tigers I think in ticker team 10 And they were that was the last tigers that was available in all the breaks So like I said, some people didn't you know bought them in 11 and 12 before they bought them in 10 Like I said guys, I will legitimately If if we can do keep doing bowman, especially bowman Um, I'll stay here until joe gets here too Make me regret that offer because we're doing seven right now. We have eight nine 10 11 and 12 So that's five more At an hour and a half each It's five hours seven and a half hours So what from five o'clock seven and a half hours would put us at Almost one o'clock. Actually that would be perfect We could actually do it. We could get all 12 of these done And and just pass it off to joe for when he gets here at one o'clock If we can do them all back to back to back There's these random like sticks from when they cut You'll find them randomly in some of the packs It's probably the third or fourth one up from I think that means it's good luck I found them in the last like three cases and the last three cases have been hot So either all the cases are hot Or the ones with those sticks are If they were the same card at the same exact price, I would go wander With a recovery for a touchdown. That was like a reaching across the goal line, you know what I mean It was like last box reaching across the goal line Just trying to break the break the plane into the line of spirit or like the plane of the end zone Ball comes loose Then you regain possession You can think of it like that too, but more than anything. I was thinking it of One wander franco will touch the majors before adley does so your return on investment will come quicker two Even if they were to go into the into Uh, the majors the same exact time They've both got called up The rays are a better team So at the so wander will get more attention and on top of that Same thing, uh Catchers a less sexy position than a position like a wander franco's So That's why I said if it's the same exact card and it's the same price You'll wander Spencer torkelson Detroit tigers. So the only paper that ships in this is uh, spencer torkelson heston cursedad for the uh, Baltimore orioles Zach vane for the colorado rockies robert hassel for the padres and then spencer torkelson for the Tigers, so you're gonna hear those four names a lot.  Those are the only papers that ship in this guys Just heads up as it's described in the break So you'll hear me say those names a bunch and those are gonna go to those four customers Respectively robert hassel padres Uh brett baddie to 4.99 for the mets That goes to jack vane Um in previous year the the one that I was saying most recent That was kind of like a Can't miss prospect Was uh adley rushman That's who they're talking about in regards to cards Um number one overall pick out of organ state most recently him and spencer torkelson were like kind of Very clear number one picks it was just who was gonna get the first pick and get them Zach vane for the rockies Spencer torkelson tigers Yeah, no worries him. He was in 2019 draft First overall pick heston kirstad orials Like we were saying he plays a catcher. He's a catcher. So he's not the sexiest position bobby miller to 150 for the dodgers oliver soria So that's the paper for box one Now let's get to the chrome The good stuff all chrome ships spencer torkelson glimpses tigers Jimmy gloenke our first auto san francisco giants. That's going to mark basette Spencer torkelson refractor nice start Detroit tigers kyle uloa Zach vane for the rockies Joe ryan sky blue for the rays. That's going to robert garicky Carmen ladzinski green For the pirates that's going to chad the benny to 99 and Oh There you go chicago cubs eric ainge ed Howard three out of 50 That's nice gold auto there. I like that Jimmy gloenke again two autos in the first box blue wave to 150 for the giants mark basette I start mark Ian seamore sky blue for the rays robert garicky and Ian bedel for the cardinals to 150 That's going to last about mojo mark nation there you go mark gloenke Is not a pitcher no or yeah. He is That's weird. They have him in a yeah They have him in a non pitching Axios do you think there's any chances a two-way? You know like with uh with Shohei second round pick Yeah, they're this he's got to be a two-way Because they're talking about batted 415 at dallas baptist jr. Departed with a 340 career average and hit 296 in cape cod They're not really it says pitcher 100 does But there's no way that they're you take a pitching prospects And you throw all those stats on there so maybe he's a A two-way player That'd be interesting to find out Good catch It didn't have any pitching stats on there unless it talked about it in a second line or something like that So maybe they just have him accidentally marked as a pitcher Very much so sam injuries really kind of knocked him off his Knocked him off his confidence and robert hassel for the pod race He hasn't recovered yet He's uh He's gotten hurt pitching which has kind of affected his hitting And he picked the angels as the team that he was going to sign with because he had so many offers Because the angels told him that they would let him do both And now zack vane for the Rockies now it's hard for the angels to go to him and say hey We think you should shut it down as a pitcher and just become strictly a hitter Because he he is really good but It's just hard because at this point he's trying to still do both I don't know Spencer torkelson for the tigers he can do both, but he's just not a hundred percent healthy And him trying to do both while he's sitting at 90 percent even 85 percent whatever it is that he's health-wise He's just he's just breaking himself down and it's hurting his confidence Shaling all ears to 4.99 for the Braves david lewis When that guy's on and at his top of his game He can do both really really good and everybody wants to see it happen too heston kirstead orioles JJ bladet to 250 Uh going to the marlins. That's for david lewis Not at all, but that's why everybody wants to see it happen Because it's such an oddity, you know It's it's like the Babe Ruth thing They want to see a guy who can throw and strike people out but also hit home runs eric oars new york mats jack vane That's also why he had a list of teams that wanted him and he could have signed with any of them and they all would have paid him It's just the angels flat out promised him that they would let him determine You know playing both ways. Well, I think other teams wanted him to do one or the other Spencer torkelson for the tigers. Looks like we have an atomic refractor coming up Who is it? Aaron shortridge Really nice looking Atomic here. You can see the plate right behind that. That's numbered to 150 for the pittsburgh pirates chad de benny and On plate one of one auto for the arizona diamondbacks brandon fat For kevin polsian one of one There you go jason domingas sky blue new york yankees There you go rory shogren Should have one more auto in here zach vane for the rockies And very nice garret michael For the milwaukee brewers green to 99 eric ainge and the brewers There you go eric from ucla heston kirstad for the orioles heston kirstad jordan westberg refractor to 250 Orioles joshproofs Oh really? Yeah, it happens like that sometimes doesn't it? The one breaker the first break you don't have them nice One of one plate auto Very cool put that at the bottom torkelson for the tigers robert hassel padres Axios is he a Is fought is he a pitching prospect? I can't tell on the plate pitcher Here he is fifth round pick okay There you go That got my answer Zach vane for the rockies Trey cruise bowman furs paper to 25 for the tigers Kyle oolua No, you're good, man What kind of coffee you got dark roast medium roast? I'm not a coffee guy But I did drink some just amazing coffee Julio Rodriguez to 250 Going to the Seattle mariners That's for David Lewis Uh when I was in Puerto Rico last year And honestly if I could if I could find out What coffee that was?  How does it has how are the uh How are the The notes on the nose Nolan Gorman to 499 St. Louis Cardinals last spot mojo mark nation I feel like a coffee advent calendar is pretty cool actually It's something you're going to use and you want to use and then you kind of get something a little bit different every day Well, that's a great idea. I might have to try that for my dad I don't know if he's still drinking coffee every day though retirement, you know Zach vine Has a little chocolate with it Wait like you put a chocolate in there or it's got a chocolate chocolate touch it Oh hints Patrick Bailey class of 2020 To 250 for the san francisco giants and mark beset Heston kirstad refractor baltimore orioles josh pruce shaling liars blue to 150 for the braves david lewis Milan to lentino To 499 for the cleveland indians mark beset doing really well so far i've been calling his name Seems like pretty often early in this break Heston kirstad orioles Holden Powell sky blue for the nationals david lewis What's up, thomas? Yeah, hopefully i'll stay on too Spencer torkelson for the tigers and max mire for the marlins that's going to david lewis That should be our third auto for the box. Maybe we get a fourth. Let's see It's tops generous heston kirstad refractor again. This is all in the same box. We had two of these in this box Good for him Uh, that's going to baltimore orioles josh pruce There you go josh Ian bettle Sky blue for the cardinals mark nation last spot mojo and josh jung to 150 for the texas rangers cool box fort zach vane Rockies torkelson tigers hunter bishop to 99 for the giants mark beset robert hassel Giant or sorry padres It's true. This is a national holiday or eventually it will be ronnie maricio to 499 stud for the ments jack vane heston kirstad for the orioles zach vane rockies torkelson for the tigers Marco luciano another stud for the giants out of 250 Giants go into mark beset Nick gonzalez to 250. That's another good one right there pittsburgh pirates Uh, chad de benny seventh overall pick very nice robert hassel Padres ryan roleson sky blue for the rockies jack vane robert hassel padres dl hauld 99 for the orioles josh pruce and cj van ek refractor auto to 499 for the blue jays gary mires jordan and wogu Bowman first auto for the cubs air cage zach vane Rockies Garrett crochet for the white socks going to eric ainge and jaren diran to 150 boston red socks carlos katnack very nice also very good prospect highly touted last year I like it close that's the first four boxes and next four right over my shoulder here And on that top camera right there. I saw some gold on the bottom there Not super frack or gold but gold I hope it's an auto should be out of 50 even if it's a just a base card big name gold out of 50 it'll do well Cool, so these are the last boxes Maybe we start working on pick your teammate single digit teams left guys east coast waking up Let's keep it going We're still chasing that torkelson super frack there Shaling liars to 250 for the braves david lewis We're not going home until we find it spencer torkelson for the tigers All open every case we have if we need to we're gonna find it Josh young to 99 for the rangers mark beset robert hassel for the Padres The dads kirstad for the orioles Zach vane for the Rockies Zach vane again for the Rockies Heston kirstad ends it for the orioles on the paper for box five Joe Boyle Refractor to 499 for Cincinnati Reds Jay goins Heston kirstad Greatness orioles Tyler brown Blue to 150 for the astros going to gia chin and Joe Boyle We had the refractor now. We've got a purple to 250 going to the reds jay goings Zach vane rockies Zach vane rockies Zach britain bowman first for the blue jays gary mires spencer torkelson tigers jeremiah jackson sky blue for the angels mark nation and justin fosquay spark For the texas rangers mark beset box six Zach vane rockies kirstad for the orioles spencer torkelson tigers andrew vaughn to 499 for the white socks eric ainge robert hassel padres all our x-layer to 150 for the twins allen burnbrowler There's paper box six Now let's go to the groan the shiny stuff Jordan and wogu blue wave to 150 for the cubs eric ainge Zach vane rockies Jackson ruttledge to 150 Going to the twin. I'm sorry the nationals david lewis and a j vukovic to 499 refractor auto for the diamondbacks kevin polsian spencer torkelson refractor tigers kyle lula joe boyle sky blue Cincinnati reds j goins Dominguez refractor Yankees rory shogun jeff crisswell for the a's gary mires and our gold big name Addison coffee 10 out of 50 chicago white socks That is eric ainge Did I say eric ainge for the white socks? I did There goes again eric ainge Cool two boxes left Six down two to go Zach vane for the rocks Robert hassel for the pods spencer torkelson tigers Grayson rodriguez to 250 for the orioles uh josh bruce hesson kirsted orioles Hunter bishop to 499 for the giant's marquissette Pete crow armstrong There you go I don't remember if this counts as one of the three autos or if it's an additional one, but Uh, there you go. He is Who is he with? I'll have to tag it Um Pete crow armstrong. I want to say rangers I'll check Almost positive. Oh Mets. There you go Let me put that next to that so I can just tag it Uh, so new york Mets jack vane. Very nice Like I said, I think that's an additional auto. I don't think that actually counts as one of the three But we'll find out new york Mets So inside the top letter outside of the penny sleeve boom and That way it ensures that it gets to you jack What was this produced in 2019 so cool Nice little surprise there in the paper And his mom if anybody wants to look it up to confirm I believe it is the mom from little big league the movie Like his mom in real life Spencer torkelson greatness for the tigers david calabrese As an angels fan. I like this a lot out of 71 Los Angeles angels mark nation there you go mark David Calabrese blew to 150 also going to mark nation and the angels and alica williams to 150 blue wave Tampa Bay rays robert garickey spencer torkelson refractor Detroit tigers kyle uloa. I think you've had a couple of those now Xavier edwards sky blue for the Tampa Bay rays robert garickey Tyler sautstrom for the a's gary mires So yeah, that other one was just an additional auto Because we got three chrome autos here too So nice We make it a five-auto box That'd be fun Maybe not Alexander canario For the san francisco giants mark basett Cool last box box eight Wrap it up and then do a recap Zach vine rockies hassle pods torkelson tigers jj blu-ray to 499 for the marlins david lewis curestead for the orioles kasey martin gold to 50 for the fillies uh kashan chang Zach vine for the rocks torkelson for the tigers Riley green to 499 for the tigers uh kyle uloa hassle pod rays So that's the end of the paper when we got left is box eight chrome Spencer strider refractor auto to 499 for the braves david lewis heston curestead orioles torkelson refractor again tigers kyle uloa Three for in this break for you jj goss sky blue for the rays robert garickey nolyn gorman sparkle going to the cardinals last spot mojo mark nation tanner burns auto for the cleveland indians and mark beset and last stack good luck everybody connor phillips black auto ends it for autos for the seattle mariners david lewis out of 75 Zach vine greatness rockies torkelson tigers liam norris sky blue for the diamondbacks kevin polzian and ryan rollison to 150 for the rockies Going to jack vane ends it so let me put Top of these real quick and we'll do a little recap okay guys our recap for the break torkelson refractor kasey martin gold paper to 50 for the phillips spencer torkelson refractor for the tigers jason demingas refractor for the yankees spencer torkelson refractor again for the tigers addison coffee gold refractor to 50 for the white socks heston curestead refractor for the orioles heston curestead refractor for the orioles trade crews Sorry orange paper to 25 for the tigers jason demingas sky blue refractor for the yankees and spencer torkelson refractor for the tigers for torkelson refractors in that one break that's nice I knew I I knew they kept stacking up. I didn't realize it was four though Uh, spencer strider auto refractor auto to 499 for the braves tanner burns auto for the indians Connor phillips black refractor auto to 75 for the mariners david calabrese sparkle auto to 71 for the angels alika williams blue wave auto to 150 for the tampé rays tyler sawdustrum auto for the a's peak crow armstrong under armor auto That's going to the new york mets You can see they are tagged on there Uh, jordan and wogu blue wave to 150 for the cubs a j vukovic refractor auto to 499 for the diamond backs jeff chriswell auto for the a's joe boyle refractor auto to 499 for the reds and a joe boyle purple refractor auto to 250 for the reds zach britain auto for the blue jays nick gonzalez purple refractor to 250 for the pirates And cj van ek refractor to 499 for the blue jays jordan and wogu base auto for the cubs patrick bailey class of 2020 to 250 for the giants max meyer for the marlins milan tolentino to 499 for the indians eric oars for the mets garret mitchell green to 999 for the brewers jimmy gloenke uh for the giants ed howard gold to 50 for the cubs jimmy gloenke blue wave to 150 for the giants and one of one brandon fat Auto for the arizona diamond backs printing plate auto on plate and there you go that is 2020 bowman draft baseball eight box jumbo case break pick your team number seven from jaspy's case breaks.com. i'm shon jaspy's case breaks.com Breaks eight nine ten eleven and twelve if you're listening right now or all in single digits. Let's keep it going jaspy's case breaks.com. Thanks for hanging out. We'll see you next time