Good afternoon. My name is Jason Embry and I am a board member here at the LBJ Future Forum and want to thank all of you for joining us here for our conversation the aftermath discussing the midterms. The Future Forum is an organization that brings together individuals with different backgrounds, experiences, and points of view to discuss local, statewide, and national topics that affect us today. Our goal is to create civil, informed, and bipartisan discussions, which is needed now more than ever. The Future Forum's events are made possible by our incredible members and sponsors, including Texas Monthly, Carbock Brewing, Austin Wine Merchant, and Joe Cook's catering. If you are not a member, I strongly encourage you to sign up before you leave. We've also left information on your tables. Upcoming events will cover Austin housing, the legislative session, which will start in January, and women in leadership. I'm very excited to begin today's discussion focusing on the recent elections and the political trends that we're seeing. Please keep in mind there will be time for questions at the end of the panel and I want to also, on behalf of the Future Forum board, give a special thanks to our panel, especially our elected officials who took time out of their very busy schedules to be here. I think we have on stage two of the really smartest, most energetic young leaders in the legislature who I think are going to provide a lot of insight and I'm very glad to have not only them, but all of our experts who are here today who are going to lead us through this discussion and with that I will turn it over to Karina Kling, our anchor for Capital Tonight from Spectral News to introduce our guests and moderate the discussion. Thank you, Jason, and there are some jokes going around about whether or not it's the smartest, and I guess we'll find out, no. Yeah, thank you so much for having us. I just wanted to go ahead and introduce the panel next to me is Alexa Udara. She's a reporter for the Texas Tribune where she covers demographics, voting rights, and politics with a focus on the state's growing Hispanic population. Next to her is Representative Eric Johnson. He's a Dallas Democrat who's represented the people of District 100 since 2010. You nailed it. He's vice chair of the redistricting committee, serves on ways and means, and was a Democratic candidate for Texas House Speaker. More on that in a little bit. And Representative Jeff Leach is a Republican from Plano and has represented the people of District 67 since 2013. He serves as vice chair of the Urban Affairs Committee and describes himself as a constitutional conservative. And Jim Henson probably needs no introduction in this crowd, but is the director of the Texas Politics Project here at the University of Texas. He founded and co-directs the UT Texas Tribune poll and is a lecturer in the government department and a regular go to for news media on Texas politics, government, everything else. You see them on our program a lot. So again, please welcome all of the panelists. So as said, this discussion is called the aftermath discussing the 2018 midterm. So I thought, what better way to start with some post-election tweets? And these come from two of our panelists, Representative Leach. You tweeted shortly after the election, Texas Republicans, we indeed got a wake up call this week and we have two choices. We can push snooze and go back to sleep or we can wake up, put our feet on the floor and work diligently to address the issues that matter most to Texans. I choose the latter, hashtag refuse to snooze. I like that. I did make that up. I promise I did. You made that up. The refuse to snooze. Yes, that's the first hashtag that I've actually maybe don't trend. Representative Johnson, you wrote woke this morning to the reality that hashtag Texas, hashtag Democrats gained 12 seats in the Texas House largely due to a cubby bust in Dallas, which changed the Dallas County House delegation that I chair from seven Texas Democrats in seven Texas GOP in 2017 to 12 days and two hours in 2019. So I think it's probably fair to say you can both agree that Democrats had a pretty good night on November 6th. What was the driving factor? Representative Johnson, I'll start with you. Do you think this was strictly Beto mania Trump backlash? Or do you think that there is a changing tide here in Texas? I think the first thing we can agree on is that a representative Leach is more succinct than I am in his tweets. That's for sure. Yet you have the better hashtag for sure. Well, I think there are a couple of very few things that happen in politics like anything else. Any other natural phenomena are just, you know, univariate in terms of what caused it. I mean, there are probably several things going on, but certainly having a very charismatic, very hardworking, I would say, you know, maybe once in a generation type of candidate. Beto or Rourke at the top of the ticket certainly played a factor, played a role and it was a major factor in energizing parts of the democratic base that I believe have been in Texas for a long time, but have not necessarily believed that we could win and have hit that proverbial snooze button a long time ago and have been asleep. They existed, but they were asleep. And I think Beto helped wake them up. And so that had downbound effects. I think you saw in the Texas legislature in particular and in Dallas, that was the epicenter of where I think you saw this activity. Beto spent a considerable amount of time in the Dallas area. At one point, I actually joked with some of my friends that I'm not sure if he's moved from El Paso to Dallas, if he lives here or what? Because he was having more events in Dallas and was there more than I was some week. So I really was impressed with the campaign he put together and it showed. And what it showed in the result of it was what I call that Covey bus was we went from a delegation that had seven Republicans and seven Democrats in Dallas County to one that has 12 Democrats and only two Republicans. One of those two Republicans actually is only ahead the races headed to a recount because he only won by 200 votes or so. So it's pretty extraordinary. And so I'm going to say Beto was the primary factor, but there were others. Yeah. I mean, Representative Leitch, what's your take on that? But also, I mean, as he's saying, woke up a lot of Democrats.  Well, look, it was a wake up call. I use that term because that's what it was for Republicans. And and I hope that part of my tweet was that we have two choices. We can go back to sleep and do what we've always done, or we can focus on the issues that matter to Texans. And elections are clarifying moments for policymakers of all political stripes for Republicans and Democrats. We are able to put the polls aside, the prognostications, the predictions aside and look at the results of the elections and get a good, clear glimpse of what the people of Texas, our voters, our constituents want us to do. Looking forward for Republicans, my hope is and my strong belief is that if we focus on those issues that are important to Texans, public education, transportation, property tax reform, passing a budget that's smart, that's funding the programs of state government, the agencies of state government in a way that are smart and effective. If we do those things, I believe that in 2020, Republicans can and Democrats, depending on how the votes line up in the legislature, can go back home and take credit for a good session. My hope and my strong desire and what I'm going to be working on is to ensure that the Texas legislature focuses on those big issues that Texans want us to be focusing on. Yeah, and I want to get into more of that, Jim. I'll ask you this and just to kind of follow up on what they're saying. But just in terms of the changing tide in Texas, do you think that that's happening or do you think that this was a one time thing? Well, I think we don't know. I think there's a real human factor here. On one hand, clearly all the things that both the representatives have been talking about were at play. The O'Rourke campaign tapped into something latent, but also it articulated for the Democrats relatively nicely what the national environment was. And so I think, you know, I'm sure Alex is going to tell you, Alex has been on this demographic beat and has done great work on this. You know, we've been talking about demographic shifts in Texas, I think, in a kind of simple way for a long time that was always disappointed. The demographics themselves were not going to drive political change. That was going to happen in a context. And I thought, I think we're beginning to see some of that here. And clearly, you know, I wrote something not too long ago about how this is the stirring of a more two party competitive Texas. And I think that is what we're seeing, what the pace of that is, what it looks like, what the terms of that competition are, I think are going to depend on what elected officials like these two gentlemen and many others decide to do, both what they do in the process in the next session, who decides to run for what next time. And I think critically what the issue agenda is. I think we've been seeing an interesting convergence in the last, you know, week 10 days, certainly since the election and certainly it came out in the day-to-mob, the speaker's race, that public education, exactly the list you've used, public education, transportation, property tax, how we're going to fund government. That's a pretty clear articulation from both sides of the aisle. And with a little bit more overlap than I've seen in a while, frankly, the question is, will that last? And those are human decisions that will be made by these folks and by the folks that are out there doing the politics. And that's what this is going to depend on in terms of how the aftermath shapes up. And we can talk about that. Yeah, Alexa, as Jim mentioned, we saw a big shift for Democrats winning in the suburbs. Republicans still dominating rural areas. You wrote an article recently, I know with several other people from the Tribune, but are titled our Texas suburbs slipping away from Republicans. Are they? I mean, so I think the baseline of this is that Democrats did better this year because the electorate was closer to a presidential year than a midterm year. So across the board, that's going to bring them up. But then on top of that, you see some of these suburban strongholds that have been read for a very long time. But if you look at the margins of victory over time, they've actually been decreasing steadily. You saw sort of a bigger dip in the Obama years that went back up when you elected Governor Greg Abbott. But that's really been exacerbated in the Trump era. And I don't think that's going to change much.  And now I think it's fair to say it's solidly blue. I don't really see that going back into Republicans control. And that's extended all the way into Fort Bend, which again was a huge swing in 2016. And I think the question was what will happen there? And it was an even bigger swing toward Democrats. I think it's, we're calling it a battleground for now, but it's also hard to see those areas going back to Republican control. The suburbs in central Texas and in the Dallas area are a little bit different. They're much more likely to be white. But I think that's really interesting to see how the Democrats were able to sort of crack open central Texas, which has been gerrymandered quite a bit, but they were able to crack open those suburban counties north and south of Travis County, where you really have a lot of people from Austin moving out because they just can't afford to live here. And so the demographic change over time, yes, we have Hispanics becoming of age to vote and becoming more engaged, but you also have the suburbs changing over time in a way that favors Democrats. Yeah, Representative Leitch, how does your party recover in the suburbs in the cities? How do you move forward with this? Well, we focus on good policy. That's what we do. And I don't think that my voters want me focused on the 2020 elections right now. My voters want me focused on the legislative session, which convenes in how many days? January 8th. Too soon. Yeah, January 8th. In less than two months. Right. That's what my voters, and I'm not punting on your question. Seriously. And in fact, I'm going back home, flying back home after this. I have a speech back in the district tonight to a pretty large Republican club. And the speech is going to be focused on what happened last week, what happened in the elections, and how do we prepare for 2020? My point is going to be very simple. My statement is going to be very simple. That look, we have to deliver on the promises that we made to our people. If Republicans and Democrats, but you asked the question about Republicans, if Republicans, if our party under our governor, Lieutenant Governor, and who's very likely to be our speaker, Representative Dennis Bonin, if we can deliver results for public education, if we can pump more funds into public education, make sure it gets to the right places, if we can invest in transportation, if we can provide substantive real property tax relief and reform, continue to invest in transportation, do the things, address the healthcare situation in Texas, continue to make sure our economy remains strong. If we do those things, I believe very strongly that 2020 election will take care of itself. So I'm focused on the policy and on achieving results. Representative Johnson, what about Democrats in rural areas? Well, I've had a lot of thoughts over a long time about what the future of the Democratic Party in rural Texas, and not just really, I've thought about this on a national level, it's kind of the same question that's been going on throughout the South. How are Democrats going to win back? And I say win back because I think most people in this room probably know, Texas was once a one-party state the other direction, was once a solidly Democratic state, and rural Texas was once the basis, really, of the Texas Democratic Party strength, and it's not that way anymore. It's sort of similar to what my colleague here said in reverse. It's difficult to campaign against results. It's difficult to campaign. The worst thing a political party can find, the worst situation you can find yourself in from a political standpoint is when the other party is actually delivering results and actually performing. When you start to get a lot of the distracting social issues talked about a lot by elected officials, it's usually because we're not doing the business of governing very well, so we have to change the subject to something to get people motivated. But when government is working well, when your roads are great and your commute times go down, and when your schools are performing, and you're like, hey, I don't have to write a check to St. Stephen's to send my kid to prep school, I can send him to my neighborhood public school and get a great education, people like that, and they tend not to vote out the folks who are delivering those results. I think we're going to have to do the same thing in rural Texas that you're talking about doing in your areas. We're going to have to show that Democrats have ideas that work well and will bring results for rural Texas. I think that the mentality in rural Texas is probably no different than any place else. They want to know what you're going to do for them. I think that really what both parties going into this next session, I want to just touch on something you said, our saying that's reassuring to me is that that's what this session hopefully is going to be about. Hopefully we have gotten past a little bit, some of the re-tourcizing on the red meat, social stuff to distract from not being able to perform, and we will actually be able to deliver for you property tax reform and school finance reform. That's what I'm hoping for. I want to ask you all about that in just a second, but I know none of you, well, maybe don't want to talk about 2020 anymore, but it's fun, so one more question. Sure, why not? We're here to have fun. Representative Leitch, do you want President Trump to be the nominee in 2020? To what my friend just said, and I think it's so true, that policy is so important, and I agree so strongly with a lot of what we're seeing in terms of policy in Washington. I do. I support the Tax Reform Act. I like some of his judicial appointments, the regulations that have been scaled back. I think we've seen and we're seeing results of some of the policies that have been put in place in this administration. Having said that, I detest very strongly some of the rhetoric that we're seeing, and this, I've never seen it this divided in our country. I'm not my younger guy. I'm actually not that young. We're not that young. You know, if we look, we just take care of ourselves. This division, this division, a house divided against itself cannot stand, and it's okay for us to fight and argue and debate and disagree in Washington or in Austin or in our own communities. But I'm very concerned about the future of this country in terms of the divisiveness we're seeing from Washington. I know I'm not punting on your question. So that's a baby? He's going to be at the top of our ballot. My hope is that between now and then, some of the tweets will stop, some of the rhetoric will stop. Right. He could use you on Twitter. Yeah, so, but if he's on the ballot, I absolutely will support him. I'll support the policies. Absolutely. Representative Johnson, who do you want to see as the Democratic nominee? Wow, we're going to have a very large field. A very large field. I mean, for all the reasons everyone in this room who are tuned to politics can, you know, can understand and can think through. I mean, it's from our side, it looks like a tremendous opportunity to restore a tone to that office that we believe most Americans, and I think it's borne out by a lot of data, want. So I think from the Democratic standpoint, it's just going to be, for my lifetime, I don't think we'll have ever seen the number of candidates, quality candidates who are going to line up for this opportunity to run against Mr. Trump. So who would I like to see? I'd like to see someone who checks several boxes, but some of the most important are, I really do believe it needs to be someone who can speak to the growing millennial and young generation. That is our, that's our future as a party. I think we need to double down on that investment. Doesn't mean we necessarily need to nominate one of them. There will be some that step forward. I mean, I know a couple personally who are considering jumping in whose names have been put on most people's list, Jason Kander, Pete Buttigieg, the mayor of South Bend, Indiana. Jason Kander, there's some 30-somethings who are seriously looking at that, but the point is, I think it needs to be someone who can excite that generation. We cannot have any lag and enthusiasm going into 2020. And of course, there's a very obvious person hanging out there now that was not a name that anyone would have necessarily said a year ago, but Congressman O'Rourke is a real potential draw to that demographic. And either slot on a ticket could be very, very appealing. So someone like him and any number of sitting U.S. senators or former or current governors would be fine choices. And as a member of the DNC, I'm not going to necessarily say a name of someone that I prefer over the others. I'm going to look at all of them, but I will be casting my vote in that process for who I think will be the best person. But right now, I think it looks very good for us. We have a lot of good choices. Jim, that's a good segue to you, because you recently wrote that Beto should run for Senate in 2020. He could win. Do you think he should run for Senate as opposed to- Well, I mean, I wrote that in a way not, I mean, certainly not even in a way. I wrote that not as a partisan, but as kind of looking at the discussion of Ben O'Rourke being in the presidential field versus being in the Senate field. And to my mind, if he's going to run again, I was at least one person in this room who vociferously disagreed with this on Facebook. So we'll wait for the Q&A, John. But look, I mean, and this is not in the big frame that you're talking about, but to my mind, what really motivated my thinking about that was your first question, is what does this mean for the future of Texas? And it seems to me that one of the things that's been really distinctive about Texas history is how rarely we've had a truly competitive political system in the state. We had a long period for historical reasons of democratic rule with a lot of political conflict contained in the Democratic Party. We've had a shorter, not quite as decisive, but still pretty clear period of one party dominance by the Republican Party. I think if Beto O'Rourke was to run again, challenge John Cornyn in 2020, whether Cornyn decided to stay in the race or get out, it would further a more competitive party system. And I think that, I mean, I sort of reject and don't believe in the fantasy, I think it's a fantasy that Texas is never going to turn blue. I think it's not in the state's DNA anymore. I think it's not in the fundamentals. I think it's not what we're looking at. I think the future of Texas is much more likely to look, and this is a bad time to say this, akin to Florida than to California. But in terms of just party competition and the dynamic, I think that's much more likely. And I frankly think as a person who asserts a pretty strong degree of non-partisanship in the way I look at these things, I think it's good for the state. Alex, I'll let you weigh in on that, but just with what they're saying, we've kind of talked about some of the red areas getting redder, blue getting bluer, or this mix of everything involved, but they've hinted at this, but what do you think it means for Texas governing for this next legislative session, but beyond that, too? I mean, I think one of the takeaways from the election was that this whole idea of Texas is in the red state, Texas is in the blue state, it's a non-voting state, it's a faulty argument to begin with because you obviously are what you vote. But I think it shows that Texas can change, but I think what's important is timing. And we're going into a legislative session, it's the last one right before the next round of redistricting, and so looking ahead about, if you're going to have six months to make this a better state for people to live in and use that to then run in 2020, what can the parties do to convince those voters to stay with them in 2020 because that's really the election that counts for future governing in the state. That's the long-term election that counts when you think about coming back in 2021 and redrawing those districts. And so I don't, I mean, I think everyone's sort of kumbaya at the moment in the house and everyone's really happy about having a new leader that lots of people are getting behind, but it's hard for me to believe that we live in a world in which the social issues that dominated last legislative session are going away.  Jim, with Governor Abbott did so much better than a lot of the other statewide candidates, aside from Senator Cruz put him aside, but why do you think that is? What do you think that spells, again, just for governing here in Texas? Well, I think it's another one of those questions that has multiple answers. One, you know, Governor Abbott has done a good job of, to my mind, occupying the institutional space of being governor in a way that enables him to benefit both from his real strong support among Republican partisans, extremely popular among Republican partisans. And though there's a lot of partisan structure in his job approval numbers, he's not, you know, you compare his Democratic numbers to Senator Cruz's numbers as a real difference.  I mean, he's, you know, and I think part of that is the way that he has governed.  It gives you enormous symbolic political advantages and the governor has been very good at taking advantage of that and he's done a good job in the right moments.   I mean, it's just not going to happen. And he's been very good at that, I think. What you just identified about Governor Abbott is what I fear would be Congressional Roark's problem in a 2020 race against John Cornyn. Yeah. I thought John Cornyn is a much more difficult target to articulate a clear clash and a dichotomy between candidates that I think is so crucial when you're trying to unseat a U.S. Senator and I think just as a quick aside, that is the biggest structural barrier to running against Cornyn is that he is not easily vilifiable the way Ted Cruz is and that's a hard, that's already a hard mountain to climb to unseat a Senator to begin with, but one who's not really distinguished themselves for being particularly bad is, makes that mountain even more, that incredible speed. No, I think that's a factor. I think, you know, we could, I mean, one thing I would say, just a slight response, which is that, you know, but the problem is he will have Donald Trump at the top of the ticket and between now and then, he'll have to make some decisions in the Senate about the degree to which he is close to or distances himself from the president and that's, that's tricky. I mean, as we've seen, I think. What I do think what's interesting about Election Night is that if you looked at the margins in a place like Williamson County, you had O'Rourke win the district, Abbott held onto it pretty easily, but then you had Ken Paxton, the Attorney General, lose it and so it was it was pretty fascinating to see that people were actually going down the ballot and making informed decisions about who they were choosing in each race and I don't know that we've seen that to that extent in previous elections. I think we're gonna have to look, there's some data, but we haven't had a chance to crunch a lot of this data yet. There's some ballot roll-off to assess there too and I, you know, I've eyeballed it by roll-off, I mean, people that just quit voting is a room that's gonna know what roll-off is, but. Sure. I suspect some of that is in there and I also suspect that at least based on the polling going in, independents who we usually don't pay a ton of attention to because they're sort of non-attentive and true independents are not numerous enough in a lopsided election to really worry about, independents split in interesting ways that we usually don't pay attention to, I suspect. Kind of brings up another point and maybe it's too early to get into this, but I mean, this was the last time around for straight ticket voting. So what do you think that spells then for the future if people are being more informed and going through and actually picking them or how much do you think that was a factor this time around? Representative Johnson? You don't get a policy like that by accident so someone thought about this and someone probably didn't think of this in the absence of any data of some sort or information of some sort. Probably wasn't just a gut instinct because it was too structural of a change that was potentially too determinative of too many important outcomes for it not to have been thought through and so what I have to assume is that this is what the calculus was. Statewide it's going to hurt Republicans somewhat to lose the straight ticket advantage but the Republicans I think at the time when they thought of this idea felt like their cushion was sufficient to be able to give up a couple of points statewide and that would be okay. I think what they had in mind was what it would do in counties like mine they were thinking Dallas and Harris and counties like that where that ballot drop-off that you might get from the loss of the straight ticket could actually unseat several Democrats who are running countywide and I can tell you I didn't realize how county judge to me because I'm a creature of government and love government is such an important job to me it's such a big deal I mean we have legislators who leave on purpose to go and become county commissioners and county judges but on a six page ballot in Dallas County when you see where county judge is it blows your mind you realize how it is buried on page five of six after like all of your federals all of your states and then your count then all your state district judges and then all your county actual courted law judges you get that county judge race way down there it will be difficult for Democrats who are accustomed to enjoying that straight ticket balance in counties like Dallas to get elected in close contests going forward in 2020 so I think that's what the calculation was they were gonna the Republicans were gonna give up a little bit of the statewide advantage but they might start picking off local Democrats and key counties like Dallas and Harris because of the loss of the straight ticket Representative Leach I'll let you respond I mean what's the thinking behind this for Republicans well I was a bit surprised on the floor of the Texas House that night when we voted on that bill I think it was House Bill 25 by Representative Simmons who unfortunately one of my dearest friends in the world he unfortunately lost his election last week it was interesting on the floor that night how partisan it was Republicans generally supported it I'm not sure there was a single Democrat who voted for the bill don't quote me on that I could be wrong by a few votes but what we want the objective is to have a more informed voter and to ensure that and for those of you that don't know you can still straight ticket vote but you have to go through that we did away with one punch voting so you can't go in and pick Republican or Democrat you have to go through each race as Eric just said I think that's a good thing for both parties it's going to create some challenges for us in our campaigns right because now we have to go actually kind of not retrain our voters right but communicate to our voters how important it is to go down ballot to that county judge race and also just a logistical issue we're going to face wait times at polls oh yeah we're going to have to to look into that this session how do we address wait times at polls because even this year with turnout as high as it was even with one punch voting wait times were through the roof that's a that's a challenge we do not want to make it harder for people to to go to the polls see a line and say well I'm not going to go vote we want people to be informed and we want them to feel like they could come vote quickly relatively quickly so getting back on just in terms of governing Representative Leitch I mean you mentioned somebody who lost but your race was very close how do you think that changes your stance on governing and seeing some of you know with the freedom caucus with some of the Tea Party aligned members you know my all I can do is focus on on Jeff Leitch I can't worry about other members what they're doing what they're saying that includes our president our senator our governor my job is to vigorously advocate for the 190,000 people I represent in Collin County since the end of last session and I think for a lot of us Republicans and Democrats conservatives and liberals last session was very frustrating it was a it was a mess of a session for a number of reasons and so when we went back home my focus was to go on a listening tour of my district to go and spend time with my constituents knocking on thousands of doors meeting with educators I'm literally about to wrap up an education tour of my district visiting every single public school nearly 50 public schools in my district meeting with law enforcement parents and what I'm hearing is like I said earlier the issues that are important to my voters are very clear and I am not going to I don't want to assume that I got caught up in the blue wave the Beto wave if you will but I do not believe that my district district 67 is as close as this recent election showed so what I've got to go do is to go win the trust of voters who may not have voted for me this time but may have in past elections and the way I'm going to do that is to achieve results this legislative session I think we're going to do that you've kind of mentioned this too but do you see a lot of divisive issues coming forth this time around like we saw last session well I mean look the legislature by its very nature is or at least maybe taking precedent yeah right I mean it's like watching you know hot dogs get made you enjoy the end product but you don't really want to watch the process right and so I think what I'm hearing now in my conversations with colleagues on both sides of the aisles people are ready to get back to work we all have to deliver for our districts I don't care if it's district 100 or district 67 blue or red we've got to deliver and I think you see a sense of collegiality I'm very glad I know you were running running for speaker I thought we were going to meet today to talk about my support for Eric Johnson the speaker just a couple days late but uh leads a couple days late this is a good guy right here we agree on a lot more than we disagree on and I've been in his district he's been in mind we're working together on some things and and so I believe I'm glad the speakers race it's not behind us there's still still some things that could happen before January but I believe strongly that Dennis Bonham is going to be our speaker he's going to do a great job he's got bipartisan support we're ready to get to work and the device of issues sure there will be some but I don't think they're going to be the focus I really don't you guys have all helped segue into other things Representative Johnson you ran for speaker and pulled your name out when it looked like Representative Bonham had the votes to do this what do you think this means for Democrats because you were a big advocate for how much say they could have in this especially with the pickups what do I think the the possible election of Dennis Bonham the speaker means for the Democrats or that's what makes them clear yeah with Bonham if he is as it looks like will be speaker what do you think that means for Democrats in the House well I think unless the Democrats were going to to elect or be able to form a coalition with the Republicans who elect a Democrat and that would have been me in this case because I was the only Democrat who ran I think we were going to be in this situation one way or the other like we I was either going to be the speaker or we were going to be working with a Republican speaker so what this is going to now boil down to is all of us figuring out and we're and it's going to be a process for everyone Democrat and Republican figuring out what our new speaker if that is going to be Representative Bonham it appears that it's going to be what his a agenda is going to be he's already given us an indication that school finances is on it but that's that's one topic we'll see what the other topics are we don't know yet and then we'll have to see what his governing style is going to be I think it's an interesting speaker politics and the whole speaker dynamic for those of us who who really love the institution and love history the Texas House of Representatives is just a fascinating institution and that office is a fascinating office and I'm not comparing it to the presidency in any other way than than what I'm about to say and that is it's the kind of job because we've instilled so much power in it in Texas where it really does reveal what kind of person you've got once you get that gavel because the power is just enormous and so I'm hoping and I think that those of us who have supported Dennis are hoping that he rises to this occasion and is a leader that Texas needs right now to focus on like we've been talking about the things that I know the voters want us to be focused on but it remains to be seen it's it's something that that office gives everyone who holds an opportunity to rise to it or to crumble underneath the weight of that responsibility and you know throughout history if you studied our history we've had speakers who've gone both directions people who've gotten that gavel and that gavel has proven too heavy for them and it's all and it's been a him every time up to this point hopefully someday soon it'll be a she but up to now it's been a him that gavels as people have crushed themselves underneath the weight and some people have risen to the occasion and and really done very well and I'm hopeful that Dennis does very well I'm always very careful with what I say on air or anywhere but I think all of us would probably say that Lieutenant Governor Dan Patrick Dennis Bonnan are very strong willed and not afraid to speak their mind I mean how do you see Jim this dynamic playing out between the two of them well honestly as I was sitting here being a panelist instead of a moderator I was just thinking about a way that and you've helped me enormously I could just ask these guys my sense of this and I've spent a lot of time just because of where I've been in the last week with I've been around a lot of members and a lot of people that are obsessed with what has happened at a couple of professional conferences I would wonder I mean I think one of the impressions out there that's underlying your question and I'll say it on air I guess is that one of the things that Dennis Bonnan brought to the table that helped them helped him build a coalition across different factions in the Republican Party across party lines is that he was seen as an able and willing defender of the House as a body against you know vis-a-vis in the in the perpetual competition and contention with the Senate would I would I be correct in that? Yeah I get your point and I agree I agree I I think that look the Senate and the House have to work together one of the problems last session was we had a very dysfunctional relationship I don't want to place all the blame on on the Speaker or the Lieutenant Governor or the Governor we bear some responsibility in that as well I believe that Representative Bonnan and Lieutenant Governor Patrick are going to work well together look at the statement they put out yesterday and and again if we focus on the big priorities for instance you cannot provide property tax relief without addressing school finance that's right and you cannot address school finance without talking about property taxes and last session we just did this all session our chamber had a very different idea than what the Senate had but now we're seeing Senators and Representatives and the Senate Governor and the new Speaker talk and communicate that's a good thing for Republicans and Democrats and for the people were elected to serve so I think it's going to work out well well let's all let you in on this too just in terms of you know the divide that we saw last time around versus the people that we all think are going to be well Bonnan we know Lieutenant Governor Dan Patrick but just the the dynamics between the two of them yeah I mean I think maybe even the three of them with Abbott sure well I think Bonnan in a lot of ways checked off the boxes for a majority of you know at least the folks that have signed on in his support there were people who were happy with Joe Strauss he was in his leadership team and so he had that going for them with them there were people who wanted someone who was a bit more conservative than Joe Strauss and I think it's fair to say that Dennis Bonnan is to the right of him and then there were people who wanted for someone to stand up for the House that's not to say that Joe Strauss didn't because I think that was clear at the end of the last session that he did but in a lot of ways he checked off those boxes what I think is sort of unclear at this point is how much of the Dennis Bonnan that was will remain once he's speaker if he's speaker and going up against Dan Patrick I mean I think from as a journalist you know we'd love to see people fighting because it makes for great copy but let me get them let me find out and now I know that's true but when you think about when you think about the session as the six-month period in which folks at the Capitol have an opportunity to make Texas a better place for people like the ones in this audience you know I think it's sort of it's too soon to say that it'll be sort of happy go lucky once things get moving yeah I think at the end of the day it was just awesome to see how many people came out and how many people were engaged this last time around with voter turnout and everybody coming to the poll so hopefully that continues with that I think it's probably I don't know what time it is but about time we've got questions from the audience perfect you're right there Stegra's got it thank you as someone who teaches about Texas government and US government I have a sort of a political sciencey type question going back to your discussions of the electoral issues it appeared that we were seeing a suburban realignment both here in Texas and then the US House of Representatives where the suburbs were shifting towards towards the Democrats in this election is that something that I guess particularly for Jim but for anyone else who wants to comment is that something that you think is a permanent change that we're seeing or is it a temporary reaction against Trump and the and what and is attitude towards women and his rhetoric and so forth so yeah permanent temporary some combination somewhere in between what do you think well I mean I think couple things one in the well overall we're still kind of looking at stuff but I think you know but I think that it's a trend line I think Alexis exactly right I mean nobody should be surprised that if we saw a big surgeon turnout and particularly and that you know and don't forget the surgeon turnout was in both parties that's right right and but that it was you know it was obviously at the top of the ticket it was disproportionately Democratic that that was gonna be an that was gonna definitely amplify these trend lines that have already been there I don't you know I think that trend line continues I think it probably recedes a little bit I think that part of what was going on here is two things one there's regional variations I think in the same way that we tend to make to overgeneralize about ethnic groups particularly Latinos we can overgeneralize about the suburbs too not all suburbs are the same I mean they reflect some of the urban the character of their urban of the urban areas that their satellites of I think we need to look more carefully at that and then second I think redistricting we're talking we're talking a lot prospectively about the stakes of redistricting moving forward which is important but I think we should pause a moment and look at these suburban results in some of these districts and see how some of the areas where Republicans had difficulties where you know I was having an exchange with Michael Lee who I'm sure much more you know most of you know is at the Brennan Center now but was in Texas for a long time on Twitter tie it all together about how some of those districts what you're seeing is a very ambitious and I don't mean that in a judgmental way but there was a very ambitious redistricting in 2011 that maximized Republican representation in districts and I think we should not be surprised that those some of those districts that redistricting map they're just getting exhausted I mean you look at a place like Plano where you've had 10% you had 10% population increase in Plano between 2010 and 2017 in a lot of these areas particularly these areas were in the two seats where the Congress the party in Congress change Colbertson and Sessions those are really rapid growth areas it's inevitable that those maps are going to become kind of exhausted and the partisan assumptions are going to shift that probably amplifies our expectation on the side of well look everything's changed exit polls show you know kind of a 50-50 split in a lot of those areas that's a movement you know in the at the governor's level of about six seven points that's big it's enough to change some things at the district level but I wouldn't begin to pronounce all suburbs democratic by a long shot yeah and one of the things that I saw throughout the campaign in Collin County and I represent Plano is in our own neighborhood and Becky and I's own neighborhood one of the strongest Republican precincts in the entire county you could drive the streets in fact our next door neighbor had three yard signs in her yard Greg Abbott Jeff Leach and Beto O'Rourke I hope you have a picture of that so for and so so that I asked my I said what is this what does this mean I'm not sure we know actually what that means something tells me that that voter went in and maybe last minute did a straight ticket Democrat ticket just because there the numbers would bear out that that person did actually not cross pollinate their ticket because it was a down ballot influence all the way down and number two we saw a poll came out this week that with a shocking number that surprised me pleasantly that I don't know the exact number 65% maybe of people who've moved here from California voted for Cruz over Beto it's a CNN exit poll I'm skeptical okay well yeah if it's from CNN fake news why say that no but you know so so so so political scientists pollsters consultants need to look at all of these numbers and tell us what does this mean for the future of Texas I don't think it's a blue wave I don't think it's a red tsunami I think it's it is what it is and we're gonna be left to figure it out the one thing I'll add and I'll keep it short is I agree with what Jim said that some of this is going to recede I don't think Republicans have lost all of the suburbs but I do think that when you think about redistricting and drawing maps that are supposed to last 10 years in a state like Texas the biggest drop in population is going to be among white people and those are more likely to be Republican voters and where you're gonna see that the most is in the suburbs where you're going to see that change and that drop the most is going to be in places like Dallas County and it's surrounding areas and so you know you have a place like Dallas County where Republicans ran out of white voters and so they cut their margins really thin and that's part of why you saw a lot of those districts flip to blue this time around and I think you know I've talked to enough sort of folks who are crunching the numbers to know that the next round of redistricting is going to be pretty tough for Republicans to draw as many safe districts if they are depending solely on white voters I had a two parter so Jim is your purple shirt and your purple socks indicative of the way things are going in Texas good you know I go for I strive for message consistency Dan Patrick had a big effect on the way things happened in the last session and you touched upon him and so forth and the Senate a little bit I wanted to know in light of all the right wing social crazy conservative stuff that happened in the just to put it mildly to uh in the last session do you foresee that that's going to come up again in the fashion that it did last time representative leech I'll let you take that oh I let me let me put it you talking about the bathroom bill all right yeah well that's a I mean look you can you can call them and with all all due respect you know the the the abortion issue the the the life issue choice what that's for for a lot of Texans polling would say that's actually not a crazy right wing issue there's a lot of people who care very deeply about it from both sides there are Democrats in the Texas legislature that are very pro-life and and that have voted for the pro-life bills with respect to the bathroom bill that was really the lightning rod last session let me just say this very very quickly I mentioned earlier that I've visited with thousands of constituents over the past 18 months law enforcement educators parents students themselves constituents and do you know how many people have told me that the bathroom bill is a big priority for them next session yeah zero it will probably be filed I assume that it might come up but it's it's I don't think it should be a priority for the Texas legislature this session I mean that group of folks that you're talking about we're also the ones who in the last legislative session came out and said we don't this isn't a priority for us well before we went into session that was when president then president Obama issued that directive I mean it was kind of a right during the Republican convention in Dallas and so it was a big issue for a lot of our primary voters I sense that work we're focusing more on property tax reform now and school finance and on those those bigger issues that we should focus on I want to split the difference between the two positions that well implied there anyway which is that one of the things we saw and why there's something that you know embedded in that question is an interesting point which is that we asked about the saliency of regulating access to bathrooms in as neutral a way as we could you know going into this you know well before it really became the issue that it became and found what you found which is that there was not a lot of interest in the issue not very many people thought it was important but as it became and it was in the wake of the Obama administration actions but as some elements of the leadership I mean we need to say what it was is a lieutenant governor began to talk about it a lot it increased in salience among among partisans and so that's where I think leadership and the question of what how you're going to define the agenda and what people are talking about in leadership positions really matters I mean you know we you guys are elected to listen to the voters but we also know that leadership figures what they say also shapes priorities and so a big factor is going to be you know when what people choose to emphasize thank you for your question I just interested in the likelihood of maybe having some redistricting reform next in this upcoming session like Arizona like California some other states have moved towards ask the the vice chair representative Johnson we'll get on about how I think I heard you about five times on the floor last session this committee has never even met so I'll let everybody on the inside joke I was the vice chair of the redistricting committee last session it did not meet one time I've repeatedly asked for the committee to meet it had bills that were referred to it including some that I had written and several that dealt with this issue that dealt with alternatives to legislative redistricting and a meeting of the committee never occurred even once we had a lawsuit decided by a panel of federal judges that actually gave us an opportunity to go in and and do something or at least to talk about the implications of the lawsuit we didn't we didn't meet so the inside joke is that basically I was this vice chair of this a very important committee that had very important work to do it couldn't get it to meet and I was I started a countdown clock you know on the on Twitter about how long how many days had gone on where this committee hadn't hadn't met and I tried to make an issue with the fact that you know the way our legislative committees work is that you know you get a chair of a committee you get a committee staff you get an office so this committee was fully staffed like every other committee of the legislature taxpayer money was going to paying a committee staff it had office space in the capital and did not meet one time so I made a big issue that never went anywhere but I have already prefiled a bill dealing with one aspect there's there are several aspects of of redistricting and and that we need to talk about and one of them that I filed a bill on deals with where we count incarcerated folks for the purposes of of the census for the purposes of drawing legislative districts just just to give her by a quick primer on what that's about I mean we have about enough incarcerated individuals in Texas to constitute an entire legislative district of their own we have about 190,000 incarcerated folks that's a problem but but they're incarcerated in places that are not where they're from and they interestingly enough count where they're incarcerated so they're artificially boosting up the population of the places where they're located which are primarily West Texas and places like that and they're under counting in districts like mine frankly where a lot of the folks who are incarcerated in our state are from so I have a piece of legislation that would that would deal with that but I'm hopeful but not necessarily confident that we will have a different result this session but you know I'm going to continue to push and and see if we can deal with that and the bills that will inevitably be filed I'm sure there are already some that would actually look at forming a a non-partisan commission to look at redistricting that way and there's some other different takes on that concept but we'll see we'll see if we talk about it at a minimum the committee probably has to start meeting during the interim between the conclusion of this upcoming session and the next one to start dealing with the redistricting of the next session so whoever is put on this committee is not going to be able to get a pass on not dealing with this issue at all because I think they're going to have to start the process of holding hearings and dealing with redistricting even during the interim between this session and the next I believe Representative Donna Howard has already filed a redistricting commission maybe some others too I actually completely agree with what he just said absolutely I will say the redistricting committee might have to meet because HD 90 needs to be redrawn as part of the litigation that wrapped up earlier this year and then that bill needs to be filed within the first 45 days of session so if it goes through the redistricting commission you'd at least have one committee meeting yeah if I'm on it I may have talked my way out out of the vice chairmanship he did he did but that's going to free up your twitter it is I didn't plan on speaking but you both made reference on numerous occasions to the suburbs and to property tax reform as well as to school finance reform I'm one of those council members that live in the suburbs live in Flugerville so we're not some extreme liberal institution but it's definitely had significant changes since we did in our last census as well regarding that aspect I just came from a form text peninsula form TML form across the state and we're speaking specifically about how we dread when you guys go ahead and you go down to the capital and you have those six months regarding issues and concerns what's going to come out of that in particular which was interesting to find was just like what was great to see which amongst both of you is that you're seeing some uniform regarding some pragmatic issues that you need to address everyone liberal, conservative black, white, Hispanic whatever you thought about we all agreed that local control is local control and so when we hear issues regarding property tax you know issues and concerns we have no qualms with them actually going ahead being addressed but there's also issues regarding just like you said representative about good roads good schools and how do you address those issues so if you're my question to both of you is this is that if you're speaking about true property tax reform in the state of Texas are you a company that with money that will go back to local municipalities they'll pay for roads they'll pay for these school districts so it doesn't just fall back into burden on us who have to explain to our citizens yeah the reason why your property taxes is the way it is is because we're not getting funding or support at the capital the answer the very short answer is property Texans of all political stripes from all parts of this state are crying out for property tax relief when my property taxes are going up eight, nine percent per year but my income is only going up one to two percent per year if that or I may be on a fixed income that's a problem that the cities the school districts and the legislators should do this on collaborate on because we have to deliver property tax relief and reform and there's no reason that we shouldn't be able to work together on that I don't think it's going to be a two point five percent cap I would vote for that I would accept that I don't think it's going to be that but I do think it should be lower than what it is now and so I also want you to be able to hire police and fire and build roads and repair pipelines and do all the things you need to do as a city let's work together on it instead of fighting against each other long discussion we could have about this I'm on ways and means and I have a background in municipal finance so I could go into this for a long, long time I'll just suffice it to say right now I oppose revenue caps I don't like the concept because I understand the flexibility that local governments need to be able to address the unique needs of their citizens on a whole range of issues I also understand that the largest part of your property tax bill is your school property tax portion and then of course and you said this correctly although you will start to get some you'll start to get some variance amongst members once I get to the second part of this we agree that school finances is a critical part of and a critical portion of any real property tax reform because it's such a significant part of what we pay property taxes for the issue though is we have to confront the issue head on at some point and everyone's going to have to jump into one camp or another on this it's the second part of the discussion that people don't want to necessarily tackle right now and even our public school finance commission hasn't really tackled which is do we want to put more money into the system or not people talk about the relative share of public education that the state's paying versus the locals are paying because we kind of all know that we where that needle has been headed for a while and that it's going in the wrong direction from the perspective of you know where the divide lines between the local portion and the state portion but the question really that we're going to have to get to is are you in it revenue increase supporter or are you not in other words do you want to put more money into public education than we're putting in no matter how we divide up who's paying for it because in the end and here's the sort of the I'm going to give you the punch line in the end it all comes from the people because that's how we pay for government whether you call it a a local property tax or you call it a sales tax where we ultimately all pay it but they all have different policy implications so we're going to have to make a decision about whether we want to put more money into the system after we've made the decision about and I'll say this I'm one of the most conservative proudly one of the most conservative members in the Texas House I think based on any ranking I think it was like 10th okay at 150 proud of that and I will say right here right now publicly what I've said before is that we absolutely should put more money into public education no question about it and and my education tour to nearly 50 public schools has reinforced that we also have to take care of our retired teachers and take care of health care and I don't know if the camps are going to be as maybe maybe monumentally or clearly divided as they were last session I think there's generally a the governor has said so publicly as well now whether we can get it done in a legislative session is another question but I think there is a desire on the side our side of the aisle to do just that and if we do so you'll see your property taxes reform this will be our last question Jim I won't ask the question I was going to ask because of chair Johnson actually made my argument to you on Facebook but what I did want to ask you all about is do you think if the Republicans statewide run what I'll call more of the traditional or more temperate Republican candidates like Governor Abbott like Comptroller Hager like George P. Bush as opposed to the ones that are a little bit more stridently confrontationally conservative like Attorney General Paxton like Lieutenant Governor Patrick is that going to help the blue waves receding in the suburbs and what I'll call formerly or historically upscale Republican enclaves in the cities you know I think that's the conventional wisdom John and I'm not my honest opinion is I'm not sure because I think we still haven't figured out what the sorting actually looked like in this last election I mean I think there's some intuitive sense to that but you know as I kind of implied in my you know response about why Governor Governor Abbott ran better there's a lot of reasons that there I don't think we quite have sorted out for the differential turnout and the differential votes for at those different levels of office ideology is one of them but there are some others as well I would say this I'm going to answer this question in a very different way I would say if I were I'm going to take your question and pretend like I was actually a consultant to Republican's trying to interpret what this election means and what we need to do if we want to continue to be competitive we want to continue our dominance of the state this is what my hunch is is what actually is going on and again I don't have the data yet crunched to do it certainly if you don't have it I don't but here's what I really think I would advise I'd say look I think that the takeaway from this election is this there's a distinction between the Texas electorate and the Texas voting age population those are two different things I think the Texas electorate skews Republican the electorate today frozen today skews Republican I think the Texas population voting age skews Democratic and as people are moved from the category of being a member of the population but not part of the electorate into the electorate you will continue to see a slow or maybe not so slow march towards more election results like what we saw on Tuesday whether you like it or not whether you think it's a good thing or not I think that's the actual political science answer is election nights like Tuesday are going to become more common than less if I'm a Republican consultant then I have to huddle my people and say guys gals here's what we've got to consider we've got to start considering general election consequences of our policies we can't we can no longer just be obsessed with primary ramifications of our policies things like bathroom bills and things like that are the old way of thinking when all we had to care about was a Republican primary but now that general elections are actually relevant those kind of policies have we have to not only not put them out there we have to try to get people to forget we ever did them and we need to move towards issues that work for us in the general election and I would spend all of my time as a Republican crafting electoral strategies around winning general elections because they're about to become more relevant for you and Matt Shaheen and all the guys up in Collin County that were talking about I believe that this is actually becoming the new normal what we saw on Tuesday I believe that yep I don't disagree well writing him a check for his Republican it will become a new normal if Republicans refuse to for instance if I refuse to communicate with millennials right now because they're voting overwhelmingly Democrat or if I refuse to reach out to and listen to suburban women if I refuse to I mean the Hispanic population in Texas many polls suggest this should be a natural base for the Republican Party and we've kind of stiff armed them with the way we communicate and we've got to do a better job of communicating and listening and delivering results Texas is a great place to live we are doing really well we don't have a whole lot to be ashamed of in terms of our results we've done a pretty poor job of communicating that to the people and we got to do better I think we'll end on that great conversation get some applause to all of the panelists great to see you thank you so much


If you're having a, are you having a final meeting? This is myself. Okay. Those are the best ones. Thanks, honey. Like they say when you get on the airplane, those of you who don't want to, are not flighted, you go to New Orleans tonight and get off the plane. Oh, there we go. There we go. I bet some more than the first thing I think of. But anyway, so we're gonna do much good work. So those of you who are getting in the lot right now at any meetings or whatever, just, you can stay, don't sweat, but we're gonna be doing some talking.  So we'll just explain it really quickly because we've been doing this for how many years, girl? For like nine years? Like nine years, right? And there's still always a little bit of confusion. So, but this is fine. Just, oh, so before I forget, to quote, let's see, I'll quote two well-known Americans. I'll quote Iverson, do your thing so that I may know you, and I'll quote Taylor Swift, both of the Democrats. Throw some quotes out there, you know? And, yeah, we'll never, never, never get back together. Yeah, so, yeah, we'll never tell you. But for those of you who are confused, because this is what you're working, here I am, this is about your work. So what we're going to do is be talking about your work and your creative process, or in other words, not mine, not my work and not my creative process. So if anybody has a question today about their work and their creative process, I'll happily talk about your work and your creative process. Okay, we've got Audrey here helping us organize the whole thing with the eight people behind the camera. We've live streamed on HowlRound. So there are people who have been tweeting in and asking questions that we will answer in real time. And what we'll do, yeah, is we'll work for 20 minutes in all number one. And then we will stop working and we'll start talking about your creative process. So, is that everything you're going to ask me? And if you could come up. Yeah, we actually have a, you can watch our Facebook live on the publicator's Facebook page and also HowlRound's Facebook page. We're going to do that now, that we're going to do that. I hope so, I hope so. But you can comment to stay on who's put on the public page or on HowlRound's page or tweet at us and we are monitoring all of them. And we'll get you to question. Great, okay, it's okay. So, what else do we have to do? We've spent a long time. Last time we were doing this, early this year, it was almost the summer or it was the summer. And we're like, yeah, we're going to work through the summer and we work through the summer but we didn't show up here.  I don't know, forgetting my, okay. So, we'll begin.  So, now here comes the, oh, what is this? So, watch our work, it's actually a play.  So, it's a play. So, we did the action and the dialogue. So, we just did the action and now we're doing the dialogue which is like, we do it together. So, if anybody has any questions, you get it. You understand. Yeah, right. Change it. If anybody has any questions about your work, your creative process, there it is. Here we are. Yeah, man. What's your name? Carmelo. Carmelo, yes. Okay. Hey, sure, did you get, what do you change? Well, it's an avail. Right. And they were writing about Invisible Man. Oh, great. Until anyway, I wanted to go home and not do anything. Right. And then I heard about this and I came here and meeting their responses. It was just the perfect combination. Oh, I'm so pleased. Of, you know, so thank you. Well, thanks for coming. Yeah. I mean, sometimes, yeah. I mean, that's what it's for, basically. That's why I sit here. I've been doing this for Carol knows because she's been coming over for like nine years or over nine years. I basically sit in the lobby and invite people to hang out and work also. And then, but the second part, this part right now is allowing people to talk about their creative process and we can hopefully help them find a way to keep going. But so you're, you're writing paper. So that's kind of like, you just go down and like saying, good. Yeah. Right. Right. And help them like develop their critical, we'll come back sometime when you, you know, have time to work on your own work too, because we welcome that. Okay. Well, thank you. Thanks for that. Anybody else?  Like, for example, a question we get a lot is, I have a lot of different projects. How do I choose which one I should be working on like that? And we talk about that. The reason why I don't ask people so much to share with me is because then it gets to be sort of like the writing Olympics. And basically it gets a little competitive.  And did you? And the person goes, well, no, I just wrote, you know, that kind of thing. So, so that's why we don't go there, but you're feeling a strong urge to. Respect. I, I, I don't understand what you're saying. I'm totally by chance. I'm a whim. And so I would be inspired by the 20 minutes to, I mean, something was written I'm not really sure, but not, not to engage. It's not incompetent. Right, right. But it's one of my products in that period of time. I'm not an inspiration. Do you have a writing practice at home? Or outside of this? Oh, I've been writing. Yeah. Yeah. And as far as the process is concerned, say just, like anything, let the hard guy, show on this, the motivation, and the intent, the sound, and solid, and then whatever, if you read a pumpkin chair on a flat surface, just to afford yourself out of the space inside. Right. Just to, to write, and then just let it go, or you gotta try to get in the way. Right, right. Just the clear path, and, and remove obstructions. Right. Like not over-complicate base, hold it back to the heart. You know, simple and plain, basic, kind of, just kind of where if I'm struggling. Right. Right. That's great. I love when you say about making time for the practice, you know, and getting out of the way. What's your name? My name is Jed. Jed, J-E-D. J-E-D. J-E-D. So Jed is talking about making time for the process and getting out of the way, which are two really, really super important things. A lot of us, a lot of other things come before our process, our work process, our creative process. We've come a lot of things before that.  And a lot of stuff comes before that. So it's really important to have your process and to work on getting out of the way. Yeah, what inspired? I don't, I'd say ten minutes a day of like visual, formula, or formatics. Right. I give thanks every day. Right. I draw inspiration from the natural world. Right. Or even from toxic therapy headlines or because ultimately, as far as the heart, even in the apparent complications and distractions, like lessons in life, you take a break and get them. Right. So as for inspiration, you'd be amazed where it can come from, where it can come from. So when inspired, it shouldn't be a task or a burden. It should be, for me, it's a great joy. It's a great relief. And so I just give thanks for that stuff. That's really great. Yeah. That's really great. That's awesome. You have many. What's your name? Cherie? Yes. Okay, Cherie. How you doing? So I've been working. What I've been writing, I've had it in my head for a couple of years. Right. And it's been hard. Like, I would sit down and couldn't ever get it out. And I think I was reading with my friend to see a play. And we had all this time. So I started and just came to me. It was kind of like the voices of the characters were flowing through me. And I had, I could just easily write it down. And I know this has happened only once before in my life. And the question is, at some point last time, I stopped hearing that. And that's, and I was told that's where the work begins. Like, you know, that's the real work. Like, you know, keep it going. Right. So I guess the question is, tools to keep going after that, I don't know if it's an inspiration or the, you know, when the characters stop talking. Right, right, right. Everybody here should read when the characters stop talking. So he's had moments in his writing time, a career where he sits down and the words come and they flow. And it's all cool and good, you know. And then they're talking those words stop. And he was told that's where the work begins. And so we want to talk about what kind of tools might be helpful to keeping going. Even when the voices aren't just flowing, even when it's not flowing. How do you go when there's no flow? Right, right, right. Which is like, it's great because it rhymes. I love that these rhymes, but I tell myself that they actually are medieval. So how do you go when there is no flow? That's when you become a pro. That's what being a professional is. Right? So we write when there is flow and we write when there is no flow. Right? And so you, maybe when you're writing when there's flow you have great confidence. Right? I am fabulous. This is all going nicely. And when there's no flow maybe you have less confidence. Oh no! Oh no! So what do you do? You take little steps. Right? You sit down at your writing space and Jen you have your practice where okay, maybe you work around you don't sit down at a certain time. For me personally sit down. Turn on that timer. And because in my experience the news is kind of like, you know what I mean? It's a relationship you're having with your higher power. Right?  Your higher power you can do all over in my experience. Right? So you've got to show your higher power I'm showing up. It's like dating. You know you're going to tech if you're not going to return those you know if you're not going to show up right? Your date is going to get starting at the feelings that you don't really care for them. Right? The higher power will just go to someone else showing up more regularly. Right? And be there for them. So the higher power is giving you a gift with the flow and then you reciprocate the gift by doing a little work on your own. Show up every day maybe use a timer. Not your phone. I just use my phone today because I forgot my regular timer. A kitchen timer is better. Oh, you have like sand in the hourglass. That's so old school, yo. That's like, okay, so you sand in the hourglass. That works. That works great. So is it a big water? Like the wicked wind chair of the little one. How? It's 20 minutes? That's so cool. What color is the sand? It's yellow. It's yellow. Like yellow? Like a coat? Like big bird yellow. And what color are the... It's all black. It's all black. How nice. Okay, so you have one of these. Right?  Right. Exactly. Exactly. Or like you can look at it every second. Like I do sometimes. And then the beautiful thing is when it is done. Now I did my bit today. So that's what you could do. Start by showing up every day for 20 minutes when the flow isn't happening. And just write anything. When you're going to be a professional. That's what a pro... I mean, really, do you watch any sports or... Well, I mean, that's a pro. Or actors, right? Actors, you know what? You're not feeling it tonight. I'm not going to go on. I'm not feeling it, yo. You go. You go on. I know. We play, you know, right? Sometimes you don't... We don't like it. We got to do it. We show up anyway. And that's what it means to be... to be serious about your vowels. You've taken a vowel to your crack. Right? Take a step. There you go. Right? It's okay to fail. Right. Just keep showing up. It is... It's difficult. It's difficult. It's okay. Because we all do. Fail. Are we still showing up? That's right. You give it your best effort. You know? Then you give yourself a chance to win big. Anybody else? That's right. Vanessa? Yeah. Okay. Okay. But after... I finished a couple of laps. I just didn't know what to do with it. So I don't have to put it away for a while. Okay. But now I just don't... I don't know what to do with it. Like having no... So you put it away for a while? Yeah. And then... Then you don't know what to do with it? Like, where is it? It's here. Don't worry. Okay. Good. No, you'd be surprised. No. So it's on your laptop. It's on Google Docs. It's everywhere. It's on Google Docs. It's good. It's on the cloud. It's on the... Yeah. Great. Okay. No. It's great. It's in the cloud. She's in the cloud. At least you saved it somewhere in the cloud. Okay. Do you have a printer? Yeah. Okay. Have you printed it out? You printed it out. But I haven't. Okay. So that you... For myself. You haven't printed it out. Great. Okay. So you want to get grounded basically. Okay. So when you have a chance, you go to your printer and you print it out. And there come the pages. And I would suggest printing it out. You know. Sorry for the trade. The only way to do this once, you print it out single-sided. Only because you're going to get... You need some space. Okay. I'm not suggesting all the time. I rarely print out things. But when I do a rewrite, I want it to be printed out single-sided. Because I want lots of space to scribble and do rewriting. Rewriting. Don't you love rewriting? Yes, you do. Who loves rewriting? Does anybody love West? Ta-da! Ta-da! Ta-da! Ta-da! You love rewriting. Yeah. You love rewriting. Right? You just do. Because rewriting is where you get to... Right? You get to show that you're serious. Rewriting. Have any of you ever been in a relationship? Right? Okay. That's like rewriting. It's not just like, Oh!  We're going to talk about what is it working? Right? Maybe I don't like what you're wearing today. We're going to have a conversation about that. It's a relationship. So you're going to have a relationship with your work. So you need to rewrite. So you're going to print it out single-sided. And then you're going to... Have you ever read it aloud? You have a voice. So... And you can read it. Yes. I'm sure. So you're going to maybe read your work aloud. Okay? In one go. Aloud. In your...  Great. So you're going to read it aloud in one go. And you're going to preferably stay out of it. Because then you're in your body. And they're characters, right? Yeah, I know. It sounds... It's exhausting already, right? But did anybody run the marathon yesterday? No. So it's kind of like that. But there are no people cheering you along. Every go, go! And the spirit. And you guys are working together. Okay? So this is rewriting. So you're reading it along. Right? And you reach a part that is like, I don't understand what's going on here.  Keep going. And you're reading all the way through. You've got all kinds of works on when you're done. And that's a roadmap to rewriting. Okay? Okay? And that's the first step. It's so important to learn to rewrite your work on your own. Okay? That's not to discount the help that brilliant editors and dramaturgs and you know, can give you, right? But you really want to learn to rewrite your work by yourself. You don't want to have to wait until the road is filled with brilliant actors. You don't want to have to write your play. I can't hear but some of my students are like, I can't hear my play. Unless I hire these fabulous actors to read it. I want to get you to hear me play first on your own. It's like a composer. She hears her work, right? She can hear her work in her head. That's what we want to develop. And then when you hand it off to actors, you will be employing amazing amplifiers. Who amplify? And there's brilliant things with your work. But you want to have done a couple of rewrites before hand off to actors. Right? Okay. It's going to be fun. Rewriting is fun. The hard work you've done, the hardest part of it is writing is harder. Okay? Okay? And come back, come back because we can keep talking. It will be like those people at the marathon. Go! Everybody give your name because I see you around town. Jim? Yes. Jim. There are biographies or backstories for your characters. Right. Pretty much everything you know about them is in the play. Is it in the play? Or does that change from project to project? It depends. It depends. It depends. Sometimes we write something and you really, you as a writer, need to know what happened when the kid was seven years old. You know? Or an actor might say, what happened when the kid was seven years old? And you might provide that, Jim, right? I mean you might provide it to the actor outside of the text or maybe the telling of it is very important to the dramatic unfolding of your play. Okay? So, I usually only include what's going to be dramatically relevant. Now, it gets us into an area about exposition, right? Where one character is just saying, back in the day when I was... And I know these are like, it's like torture, right? It's torture unless it's attached to dramatic necessity. You know what I'm saying? So, a character starts talking and relating some information about herself because she wants something. Not because she wants the audience to know. That's kind of lame exposition. But she wants something from the other characters. And that's why she's telling this information. You see? So, it's very active. It's not just the playwright wants the audience to know something about these characters. Does that make sense? So, I would say, sure, if you want to write some back stories, if that's going to help you hear the characters, if that's going to help you write them more vividly, sure, write some back story. Only include in the play what's going to be dramatically relevant. Right? Yeah. Like we know, like in Medea. Medea might talk about where she cut this from because she's trying to maybe tell Queon. This is my back story. This is what I want. So, she's using it as fuel. She's not just telling the audience her stuff. Tatiana? Yeah. Cool. I had a question. I'm working on a play for a class. I'm a graduate student in playwriting at Columbia. Oh, great. Okay. We have this prompt, and I've been working with this through line, and I've gotten lost writing different themes kind of out of order. Right. And I'm wondering if you had any advice about how to find your way back to your through line. Okay. Okay, so do you like the prompt? I do, yeah. Good. Good. Okay. So, how do you find your way back to your through line? Okay. Great. What you haven't mentioned is any character. Are there characters in your play? Yes, there are characters. I know. You laugh. It's funny, right? Are there any characters? I know. There are characters. So, what are they? I mean, do they have names? Yes. So, one of them, I have it split up into kind of two parts. One is like a play within a play. Okay. And the other side of it is the rehearsal. Okay. So, we see the actors. Okay. So, Rivka and Leo are my two characters that I'm working with. Great. Okay. So, what do they want? They want to perform this play while also understanding the backstory of where their characters are coming from. Okay. The play that they're performing is like a bat mitzvah. Okay. Okay. And so, they're like 23-year-olds playing 13-year-olds and they're trying to get into that headspace. And they're also in a relationship. Okay. And what is, what's in their way? What's their obstacle? A hard time getting, because they're so clouded with everything going on in the world as it is now for... Right. At age 23-ish. Right. So, they're in trouble relating to a character that would be in the headspace of a 13-year-old. Okay. So, what are they going to do to overcome their obstacle? So far, I just have them talking it out with each other. Okay. Different ways that they can get deeper with their characters. And maybe some interaction with the audience, but I'm not sure. Okay. So, you notice everything I'm asking you is about your characters and what they're doing. And I'm not really asking you about, you know, the plot. Because they're connected. They're so connected. But a lot of times we lose our way when we're just thinking about one of those things. Right? We're just thinking about the characters or we're just thinking about the plot. And what's clear to me is that you're spending more time on the characters. So, what will they need to... It's a play about a bat mitzvah or a bar mitzvah. It's a play about a bat mitzvah. And do you know what that play is? I'm still trying to figure that out. Okay. Okay. Okay. So, I would suggest that you just spend a lot of time talking to your characters. That would help. Figure out that play that they're performing. Okay. Get specific. Because I think you're kind of specific about the big picture things. But when it comes to what the characters are actually doing, like this... Like, for example, if I wanted to remember what it was like to be 13, what would I do? I don't know. Could you go online and maybe buy something off of eBay that might have been a toy or something that you had when you were 13? You know, I don't know what toys people have when they're 13. But do you see what I'm saying? Yeah. Get a sensory object. Get something. Instead of just doing this, talking, I encourage people to get their characters to start to be active all through their body. And not just from the neck up. There are a lot of plays where people are just talking. Wah, wah, wah. They're not really doing anything. Except talking. And yes, talking is an action. But, you know. Okay. So, if they're doing something, right? They're actually doing something. For example, you should go, do you know the play, Hamlet? Hamlet by that guy. So, the play opens. How does the play open? It's been a while since I've read Hamlet. Okay. Is it like, is it their birthday party? No. Is there, are they outside? Yeah. They're outside. They're outside, right? Yeah, yeah. So, they're outside. And they're like, who goes there? Whatever the person. I don't know that, right? And they're outside and they're on watch, right? Some miscellaneous dudes are on watch because there's been a ghost sighted and they're wondering what the fuck, right?  They're not just talking, blah, blah, blah. They're on the parapet. It's foggy.  Oh, there's a ghost. I don't know. Right? It's very active. You see, Shakespeare set this, these two guys asking these important questions. Who am I and what am I doing here? He put them in an exciting place and it revealed so much about the questions of the play. You see what I'm saying? They weren't just talking, okay? So, think about what your characters might be doing, actively doing, to take them back to the time when they were 13 years old, okay? Are there any articles of clothing that they still wear or they might take out of a trunk or a closet? Are there TV shows that they might watch or they might remember together? Okay? Okay? Active, active, active. Keep it active. Because it's a play. You forget. Thanks, though. Thank you. Thank you. Good question. Anybody else? I have some of the things that I need to talk to someone about is structure. Right. Okay. When you have a piece that you're working on that has lots of different bits and pieces and lots of different ancient stories, it's a family dynamic. Right, right. It's dysfunction. Okay. But if it's all in the name of one particular kind of goal. Right. And each one of these things could easily be like a vignette. Right. If you wanted to. But I don't want it to be that. Right, right. I want it to be maybe a musical. Maybe you play a lot of music in it. And I understand that each piece of action has to end the song, you know, that you write. Has to continue moving the action forward. Right. You know, so that you remain invested in the character. Right. Otherwise it's just like you don't care about the thing. But one of the things is how do you hang... I'm trying to figure out how to hang, you know, this one particular idea that is like the culmination of everything. Right. And how to bring that forward in a clinic so that we know what this might be about. Right. You know. Right. I see what you mean. That's really tricky. Yeah, yeah. There's many ways to do it. Right. Right. But I'm not sure what the strongest way to do it. Or to keep it as a surprise and then it's... You see what I mean? But even if it's a surprise, there should still be a little hint or something. True. True. True. That's structure. That is structure. Yeah, there's also character involvement. It's all the same thing. I mean, I think it's most helpful for me if we see all the things as interconnected. Right. Okay? So we can take out for the moment the fact that people say that songs, you know, have to move this very forward. But if we just take out those for a sec and just look at those... The story. The story. The characters. What they want. What they want more than anything. Right? So if we were to say, just to take this conversation, very much so, Mark will want you to successfully write her play slash musical. And in the end, she successfully writes her play slash musical. It's okay to know what the characters want at the beginning. Right. You think of all the musicals and not all the musicals. But like, I don't know, what's musicals that you like? That's musicals. Oliver. Oh, there's a great one. What does he want? He wants more. He wants more. And people go, ah!  But he gets more. He gets a lot more. But it's okay to know what he wants at the beginning. It's often called in musical theater language. Theater language. I know, but we hate it, but it's comfortable. The I want song. It's called the I want song. And it usually happens like the second song in, and they sing about what they want. Right. Right, like that. And that's okay, because then everybody knows that's what the characters want. Right. And then we see how they get it. So we're watching how they get it. So we think of, I don't know, the rakes of rap, although it's not a musical, but they want a better life. And we see how they get it. So the it doesn't need to be kept mysterious. It's the how. It's the word for it. Does that make sense? It's okay to say out, try and experiment, say right in the front what they all want. Have all your characters stand there and go, I want this. I want this. I want this. And then watch what they're going to do I know I have that. Okay, okay. I have that already. Okay, okay, cool. And, you know, when we, maybe I need to think, one of the things that I want to do, is there's a thing that the main character is not aware of. Okay. So say, you know, the main character wants to see the entertainment. Right. Right. You know, it's an ignorant, always wanted to see the entertainment. Okay. So that's what, that's what this came in. Right. However, when she goes back to the dynamic, what she discovers is something, or pressing, you know, and she tries to, you know, extend it to something that is in denial about things. You know, it's true to stand there and stare at me right in the face. Right. But, you know, the character is the only one who can really see this. Seriousness. Right. And the other one is, ah, that doesn't go up. Ah, you're exaggerating. Ah, I don't even know what you're talking about. Right. That's the one that's really pressing to the future of whatever. Right. So I'm trying to figure out how to make that, the connection to why she needs this. We'll see at the table. Right. You know, so you need to go through and ask every character, how is your story connected to the same story? Right. You could ask them that.  But how is your story connected to the same story? Right. You know, because each, each and yet, as you call it, should be connected to the bigger story. And when they're all together, as well, because it's, I think, well, sure. But it's all connected. It can grow up. It can grow up. It can grow up. Exactly. Exactly. Exactly. That's all right. Also, index cards, a motion board. Yeah. You know, it's helpful. It's a lot of that. Yeah. You know, but it's really helpful.  You can just play with it. You know. Thank you. So, I'll get you next. Okay. Go on. Go on. Go on. Go on. Okay. You can start with the clothes. Right on. You got to see the next one. Right. There you go. Go on. Okay. Go on. Awright. Right. Oh, great. All right. That's fine. So, then, number of songs I've worked at, one of the ones that I like, Oh, great. Oh, great. Oh great. Go on. Thanks, guys. Oh, good. Oh, good. And that person's... who was that? Oh, great. Oh, great. Oh, great. a lot of books, so now she's been getting into songwriting, so now we're, she's, yeah, so you've got to, you've got to transcribe. I registered the copy. Okay, cool. It's very timely. Oh, cool. I'm going to take my baby away. Oh, okay. I'm dealing with another supporter. Okay, okay. So, like, what do I do next? I don't know what to do next. What? What do you mean? I'm going to get it out. Oh, I know. Are you recording a song? Well, if you recorded a song, if you bring a song, you copyrighted it, you recorded it, you have to record it in pain. You can put it on SoundCloud. SoundCloud. Well, you've got to know. No, you just, no. In two minutes. You've got to go online and forget that. I mean, really, just do it. Go online, SoundCloud, yeah, and it doesn't really have anyone to, yes, exactly. Yes, exactly. It's not that difficult. It's just, you just can upload your songs to SoundCloud. Getting your work out there is very important. You want to just upload your songs to SoundCloud. That's good.  You can do it. Yeah. You can do both. But it's, it's, um... It's been a wonderful experience. Well, that's good fun. Congratulations. That's what you get there. Run, run, run. So where will we be back? I know. November 26th. November 26th. We'll be back on November 26th at 5 p.m. And, uh, anything else you need to say? I know. Well, you know, it's working. Congratulations. I sure will. Okay, thanks for coming in. Thank you. Thank you.


Welcome, MC2 Burleson here with the Secretary of the Navy, the Honorable Ray Mabus, to talk about changes coming to the Navy's fitness policies in the NAV admin next week. Sir, thank you for being here. This Sunday we'll have an episode of the rundown detailing the changes in the NAV admin before our viewers now. Can you tell them a little bit about what these changes will focus on? What we're trying to move from is a physical fitness test twice a year to a culture of fitness so that you're fit all the time, you're fit to do your job, you're a better sailor. Our goal is to keep sailors. Last year we discharged about 1,500 sailors for PFT. That's a huge number. We had a tremendous investment in all these sailors. And they had a big investment in us. So we want to make sure that we keep that investment and we keep it going both ways. Mr. Secretary, when you talk about people being the Navy's most important asset, what benefits do you expect the Navy to receive from investing in its people through the fitness changes and other recent personnel reforms? Well, what the Navy is going to get is, number one, we're going to get a better fighting force. We're going to get a more fit force. We're going to get a force that is fit for their jobs and not just for physical fitness tests. Number two, we're going to keep the huge investment we're making people. Many of the changes you outlined in your Naval Academy speech and here on the show were so dramatic that I'm sure that some sailors were skeptical if they even at all happened. But we've seen steady implementation. You said you expand maternity leave and a few weeks ago you expanded maternity leave to 18 weeks. And now with the changes to the fitness policy coming out on Monday, what can you tell us about the pace of these changes and what's next? Well, I understand that people might have thought, well, yeah, talks a good game, unclear if anything is going to happen. But I'll tell you, we've done maternity leave, we've done this, and by the end of the year we will have implemented virtually all the things I talked about at Annapolis. We're going to keep doing this. We're going to set very stringent timelines so that we make sure we do it. So if that was in my speech, if it was one of those personnel actions, expect to see it implemented if it hadn't been already very soon. Well, sir, thank you for coming on the show. You, too. I appreciate being here. Thank you. Look for Sunday's episode to detail the changes coming to the Navy's fitness policies with the Navadment announcement coming out on Monday.