Not in that when I say my orientation towards the future has changed. It doesn't feel like it's it's an expansive or Like ha, you know, it kind of feels like it's oh and I don't really know. I don't know why That's super interesting. We have a with April I developed a sort of a stretch of that she gives in some talks now about Our orientation to the future and like do we see it in front of us or behind us or beside us threatening? And if it's ahead of us, is it a hole we're going to fall into maybe or is it an aspirational thing up high and And then with what speed are we approaching it? Is it disorienting or whatever there's a whole bunch of once you start trying to just metaphorically Place the future somewhere around you it gets interesting because you're like I'm just trying to skirt the future and avoid it Like a it's a strategy But that's interesting Yeah, I mean, I feel the same way for maybe Articulating it is he is a Is a coin recognition, you know that the environment is starting to run away from us and that the day is a exponential acceleration in In the damage that it's being caused by a shifting change in climate and When you go on LinkedIn at least the group that I'm connected with I mean, they are increasingly alarming Data points, you know that show how Serious this is really getting and at the same time you see this Intensifying pushback by the industry And particularly in the farm bill discussions who don't want to have changed. They don't want to lose their Their privilege to market access. They don't want to lose the government subsidies that they have been, you know feeding on And and so for me this the insanity that you see in the house is really a reflection on Creating as much strife and form oil to paralyze the political process that would create change So it's a it's a it's an insane time, you know, because we are In a vortex right now Where every every move that's being made at the national level has really severe consequences And yeah, so, you know, what do you do about it? But Yeah, it's getting it's getting I mean, you know, look at the weather map, you know Look at the heat wave coming through the south south east state It's spreading Yeah, and and so No, you already have storms piling up that In June that that is a very very rare occurrence So, I mean, it is what it is, you know, it's just the sad thing is that we completely lack the Collective understanding of where we are at and what we could be doing about it and that's really this this kind of Aggressive disagreement is is a huge problem It's it's interesting. You just made me As you were talking I was thinking about these pain scale charts Which is like when my mom went to hospital They handed her a sheet just in case you can't describe it But also if they say how how much pain are you having one to ten? We don't all know we mean the same thing by one to ten So it's like four means you can't get this pain out of your head and it's interrupting and I'm making up What this means but but they graduate right and ten is it's unbearable that there's nothing else I can I can do But I'm wondering if there is a damage to the earth Chart we could create that's parallel to that and Present that to people and say because there's a lot of people that are like, you know Humans have always done stuff to the earth. The earth has this incredible ability to heal We're gonna get over this it'll be okay and all these worries about they've always been ice ages There's countless excuses for There's nothing abnormal going on and and I was in a conversation recently where it was like how bad is it? And I was like, you know, I think it's this bad and this is this is my biggest worry about why it's that bad, right? But if we had a chart that had like like different levels of possible damage that is currently underway That might be an interesting way either To start conversations and to head into why do you think this and how does it go? We're also to sort people who think there's just no problem going on and people who are thinking that we are Entering an extinction level event then and I'll just add to that the little thought that the little thought that it takes a lot to do extinction like like extinction level events are extremely major and so There's a bunch of people out there saying we're about to destroy all life and it's like that's that's really a hard task That's a hard thing to do But there's ways in which life you know life-supporting systems could collapse and then then you do get something like that Anyway, this is a distraction a bit of a distraction, but I don't know if you either of you think that would be interesting or useful. I that idea appeals to me because of the The word coming to mind or the words coming to mind like household context providing some kind of context that like You know that everyone's seen that chart at least in the United States Everyone's familiar with that chart and most are familiar with that chart and that would be a really easy and like really simplified way to bring this very when I proceed to be a very complex and Paralyzing idea into Small kind of cute cute framework that is easy to understand that people can relate to and they already have a place for that in their mind And we're just attaching this other complicated thing onto a simple already existing framework that a lot of people have Mm-hmm. Yeah, that's that's cool idea very interesting Close do you want to check in or shall I Go ahead. Go ahead. I think I started Shay sure So as usual I'm doing way too many things and everything that I do sort of seems to sprout new things my The good news is that a lot of the things I care about seem to fit together nicely So so this neobook is a nice way of weaving. How do we make sense of things together? How do we publish those into the world? How do they connect into deeper artifacts? So so that works really well I'm I'm sort of deep into what is the future? What is our cyborg future look like because I'm working on this conjecture that the future of work is very cyborg We are going by which I don't mean implants and biological prostheses But I mean just much deeper integration with software that we are going to rely more on software Software is going to have more to do with us and how we live Software is going to eat a lot of work and improve a lot of work all the kind all those kinds of things and clouds Just from all of your reporting in on chat you use of chat GPT It's a perfect example of you know, how that might work And one of the things that's sprouting out of that quest on the one hand I'd like to like make a living giving speeches about this but on the other hand I think that there's room for or maybe demand for but I don't know a community of practice of ethical cyborgs Meaning a group of people who get together and talk about what the cyber feature means, but also who are concerned about and working toward Principles activities actions training whatever else it might be so that as we gain these superpowers We use them for good and not for evil and that may be just too simplistic to say But that but that's a piece of what I'm working on and I've got a call with a guy who lives in Melbourne, Australia Once a week where we're sort of chewing on this And I may I may be doing more stuff around You know, I may be offering a platform or something like that around that But I don't know if that does that sound like a need or not a need or Go ahead Reflect that back to you to make sure I understood what you're Herbert you're saying so it sounded like so it sounded like you you feel an interest in Creating some kind of replicable ethical framework for or framework for ethical software use and as this as we know we as humans become more deeply Involved with and integrated with software or vice versa. There there's some kind of standing set of Standards or ethics that the framework that people can refer to Individually to support them in their use or at what level is this framework Getting deployed and do I even have the right idea when I'm saying suggesting you're suggesting a framework ethical framework So yes on ethical framework, and I think you're on the right track I don't know that I want to stand up a community or the community to create that framework I think I'm interested in whether there's a community of practice that goes and looks at other people's frameworks and figures out Which ones work and which ones don't and adapts and appropriates them and then adopts them And promulgates them basically and so so I don't I don't I think it's way above my pay grade To go develop a really good framework like that But there's a bunch of people out there trying to do this in different ways and some of those are going to be excellent And some of those are going to be a little a little loose So I think I'm interested in the community more than the developing the framework And then I think this community would also be about learning how to use the tools better Building projects around the tools doing other practical stuff that a that a community of cyborgs might want to do And a little bit i'm thinking here about how programming has become such a major employer Over the last 50 years right it used to be there were some cobalt program programmers and some forefront programmers And now it's like you're in high school and One of the big paths forward is go learn to code Which may or may not get automated or go away But we have a lot of programmers in the field right now who don't particularly have any ethics training any ethical framework Any ethical responsibilities any professional oversight any any of those sorts of things like none of that exists And it feels to me like These superpower tools Could use that Then they could use a community that knows what that means and how to apply that So that's kind of where i'm coming at it from And it's more the community than the particular frameworks which Need to be developed sort of between lots of different communities and people who are like expert at doing those things I think Thank you that helps What has Been striking me for the last maybe a couple weeks of starting to really get into this chat gpg thing and and trying to illicit responses that are useful you know to to get Some logic flow into a book format the the What's what seems to be happening is that Love lock for example, this is book in the nova scene And but also now others linking into this Suggesting almost like a partnership with your AI whichever whichever one you you pick Chat gpt. I mean that's what I've been going with at white bar and that doesn't really flow as easy And going forward um, I mean a couple things one is that The artificial intelligence needs us to survive and first of all to form itself and then to to survive there is a There is a stop gap in the biosphere That if the planet Exceeds I think 50 degrees There is no then then it turns into a desert. There is no more life and there is also no ability for Or Mechanical life to succeed now so so the the planet needs to stay habitable And the habitability of the planet is strictly organic At the entire biosphere everything is organic Now think about now all the gases that are in the atmosphere that generated so organic processes So so there is this interdependency So that's a good thing because AI needs humanity, but it needs humanity Acting in certain ways that doesn't damage the biosphere man So there is there is a symbiotic relationship in that in the context So I think and then so more and more it becomes clear that we have to change our way of thinking In in that we don't solve problems. We ask questions You know to towards Problems that need to be solved. So the the skill is In the identification of what you need to know to move forward And then and then learn to ask questions in ways that solicits What you need to know To to guide your your your next steps and your actions So and so you already see this shifting and you see and we had I think ken was Getting Sort of nervous about the idea that children grow up with AI Because what is this going to do to their emotional development and so on?  I kid you not they have a classroom for for one year old kids you know, you know with with one teacher in it and so They're using every tool that is available, you know On academy is already embracing AI to create The students tailored individually tailored learning programs that match just the students Uh Referential style of learning right? attention span and so on and so on so so it's happening, you know that the this next generation going up will Will live with AI And and so so then you want to make that interaction productive and and and positive, you know Um And and so I have had now some conversations with chat gpt where in one in one instance I asked chat gpt. Why did you not consider? Um, I mean for example about meat where I mean you're offering all these uh techno solutions Why don't you offer? A solution that would tie into cuisines around the world That use much less meat than we do like India, you know the Mediterranean precinct and chat gpt comes I apologize for overlooking that, you know, I mean it was just it's just crazy stuff, you know, and and so Uh, then it we it reconfigured its response based on including this fact. So you're also teaching AI, you know to think in ways that That we as humans do and and expand You know that's very much referenced um So so yeah, so I think for for the immediate time and maybe for the next few years um We will be We will be learning to use AI In ways that amplifies now our thought process And and takes away all the tedious work because we used to when you wrote a paper I mean you spend 90 of your time in research and 10 in writing Yeah, so now you can spend 90 of your time writing and 10 asking questions of stuff you need to know And and so that that is that is amplifying Just supercharging our ability to pull together thoughts and So I wanted to To refer to to one paper That came out recently which didn't reference AI, but I'm I I'm sure they used AI to write this thing and let me just grab the screen for a moment And it's it's this you know, you have a paper that I'm sure you have seen right? It's the Great unraveling the great unraveling. Yeah Um, where is it here? Let me just go up and Navigating the polo crisis and the way they went about it Is that um, let me see the the polo crisis defined um So they go into the origins of all predicament here But what they do is they take a text Um where where they where they line up individual items, you know stratosphere or the climate change Land system change and so on So they create they create A headline, you know that that gives you the The picture there, but then they go into how do you page this down this thing? Then they go into hold on It's just messed me up I think you're in a screen capture mode or something like that because your cursor is square Yeah, I don't know what's going on there And you're clicking on those pages and it's not going there we go. Yeah, okay. I have to click over here. Yeah Where was it over a few what did I just have? Hold on Yeah, it It just doesn't want to let me page down one page at a time Can you hit the space bar? Does that take you down a space page at a time? No It just messes me up. No, it's just doesn't want to do it. So where was I? Okay, so so here's this page right and then it goes into Okay, so here's global warming right so you can actually work with AI with chat GPT Where where you ask it to create no or you pick up a chart like this from somewhere um And because there are no all of this stuff is out there and then you ask chat GPT Okay, so let's now go into global into global warming um And then the aspire diversity and habitat loss soil loss and degradation. So here are Here are the line items defined, you know, and so you can really create a book Going into Going from headlines down to These individual Line items and then drive this topic further down. So you can actually I think you can write a book fairly fast You know by using this this process here um so when I when we go into um Where we are so far with our book here where did I put okay? So the story of soil so this this is what um Out of all the the prompts that I've been so um What I have extracted maybe Maybe most useful So there is this you know, the there is this headline the story of soil so the very historical perspective Age of generation and then from there We I know why we need a revolt See now comes Chad gbc originated of data as a health crisis environmental degradation loss of biodiversity social justice So now we put to crap each one of these line items and make Make and create the next paragraph or the next chapter out of that Yeah, so um And then and again here food production must consider it's an here's another top line article and then You must consider local conditions for food production. There's climate environment water soil health past and disease No, so you got you you we can break that down again Into these seven sub chapters And then we go into bio regions. What are they? uh culture and traditions And then the regenerative movement is how do you repair this now? and then uh, and then we have again No, six sub items here That we can break down and then here's the path to the regenerative future Raise awareness for the collaboration and so on. So we actually have The headline for a book that we could assemble From from from where we are so far Um, that's great. Is that the same document that you have before the story of soil? Or is this a whole new document you created? It's it's no it's the I messed with this a little bit So I I think I only have a link to the draft one point though because that's the link that I just clicked on And it takes me to one point though. So if you can if you don't mind Sharing a link to this one, I will add it to my brain and it's a much it's a It's as much more fleshed out than what I saw before so Uh, great work Yeah, so if it be You know if we could look through this Um And and and then we can expand this into a small book And actually I got the reason I mean I could what stimulated me is to look at this welcome to the great unraveling Because it just looks Amazingly Similar to the way chat gbt responds to your questions. Mm-hmm, you know, it it it repeats it That goes bing bing bing bing bing bing here the key points And then you can just grab that point and create a sub point fleshed out and and elaborated um Cool thing and also, thank you for bringing us right back into our topic. Um, so nicely Um Because partly by by way of sort of checking in or arranging where we are I wanted to ask you klaus The draft you just showed us looks like where I was thinking we were heading for a neobook starting point But then there's these plays and you said there's a second teacher is interested in doing that How do the plays fit with the book fit into the project in your in your mind? I would say that that's a spin-off Okay It actually distracted me I must say because of it. It was super, you know, a great idea So I played with it and and I developed I Developed the Outline a play outline and so on and so on but then I'm going to come back to Here's the book. Okay. Um, so that's I think we're we're totally aligned here and Once we get a quick first book done and it doesn't so I think we need to figure out how much more Does each of these levels need to expand like you just pointed out, you know, several lists that are in the draft any one of those items could become A couple pages or whatever else and and that's probably really good for most of them But if we do that for all of them that might turn into too long or too big a project So I think I think deciding how much what should be expanded a lot and whatnot is really useful Um And then I love that sort of the last section is regenerative agriculture and what what does it do and how does it work? There's probably some piece at the end there that that needs to bring in bioregions again because it was a Well, there was the piece you showed about How to go about doing this and why so much of this is local and dependent on local conditions, which is great But it what you what you've shown is a very nice. I think starting point for the book Um patty any thoughts No, no, I'm just I'm just going down through the the second draft and Picking through it. It looks fantastic. Yeah, this looks great. Yeah, they're well filled out um, cool, so I think a couple questions like what's missing from the draft what what what would any of us like to see included Um, how might we want to sort of divide and conquer? Um, claus, what is your plan with this right away? what is What criteria are sufficient for a quick first book like at what point do we know that we're more or less complete and then we like send the bat signal up on the clouds repeat to come back And uh help us like turn this into an actual e pub document, etc, etc Yeah, um, I mean, I was just uh the last couple of days struggling to So pull This together because when you when you look at Where is it? When you when you look at hold on let me just get back to the screen here Um, these are all this these are all the stories that we currently have Um, so here's the here's the play And there's the story of soil in the story of queenville. So so these are Um, all the things we currently have so I did pull together this this is now Uh, what what now I would move forward with is the story of soil and bio reasons um Yeah, so I would say um Just continue to flesh this out um, I'm going to be um at the blues festival next monday In portland. Oh here cool. Yeah, this is a most phenomenal blues festival one of the top two or three In the country good lord. I don't even I pay attention enough to that. Yeah, I mean, this is yeah, you need to I mean check it out Um, so I won't be able to to do anything so next week. I'll be out. I'll be uh Underneath the beer tents listening to blues. Yeah um But but I would say that's and then then It would be great to have A creative component in there, you know, if We can insert some some pictures and drawings now and and so on and that's what I'm not really good at um But let's just do loosen this thing up a little bit and and uh, you know, just Create some visual Breaking points and so on. Yeah, I think I think once I think once this thing is a little bit further than it is now And and we're all sort of checked off on it and happy with it We could recruit somebody and say hey, who's really good at prompts and you know prompting generative AI art and Create a series of illustrations that are all of a same style genre But explain or illustrate the different parts of what we're trying to say that would be terrific And I I bet that if we sort of knock on a couple people's doors We can find somebody who will pass us some really nice illustrations because That seems to be so possible right now um So that would be great And and if you have any spare time while you're in town, I'd love to get together and Meet you in person and have a beer or something but uh, you know Let me know if you have any wiggle room in your schedule I don't have a car It's the only thing because we're we're driving with someone else I mean we're passengers, but yeah, if you can you can meet up in the area down there Sure, I don't I don't know. Where is the blues festival being held on the waterfront? Oh, I I'm I'm walking distance from the waterfront. Hey make comic schmicks somewhere Yeah, exactly. There is one right down there on the waterfront. Yeah Um, that sounds great. So let me know when Yeah, because you'll have schedule with friends and family and all that Let me know when it's good and I would love to just come come by and visit for a beer or a dinner or something I don't know. Okay. Um, that'd be fabulous. It'd be really nice to meet you Um, cool. That makes me happy. Oh and then but but worse luck for the project is that I'm going to be missing the next two Mondays uh because On the 8th April and I traveled to Baja For a workshop that is the the whole week of the 10th So that includes monday the 10th and then we're staying in Baja for an extra couple days. So the 17th I'm also missing in action. So it's 17 18 19. We return home late on wednesday the 19th of july So it looks like our next three weeks are Our um, how shall I say it? Endangered a little bit And what we could do is we could just take a break and reconvene or we could split up and whoever is on the calls can just move things forward Anyway, we want uh, whatever we'd like to do. I don't I don't know how you all feel I'm going to be camping on the 24th and 31st The the following mondays. Yeah. Oh man. All right I'm okay with the summer break summer vacation from uh, you know, I think I think maybe leaving today with a clear sense of What we're working on for the next month or however many weeks we're going to be not adjoining Could be fine, but we can also you know work on email and and And exchange, you know some thoughts and and see how this advances We also have the the matter most channel for the project So what we can do is use that to talk back and forth so that anybody else who's interested can come see what we're saying I think that talking a little bit more in public would be good Just so that anybody who wants to can can catch up with us and join us if they want to So let's so let's post a couple things there maybe including a link to the the draft document That you just shared with us I put that one on the matter most already. Oh fabulous. Okay. I must have missed it. I don't think I've caught up for a couple days that's great and Good so that means that the next little piece we have here is our last one for a bit in person In real time. How should we use this time most effectively to? organize ourselves for the next month or two to make some progress but I would Love to be the play really resonated And there is apparently a church group. It's called the green team or something like this and They are doing Sunday school Um To engage children into environmental issues Um, so now we find we have two two teach actually a sweetie in total Who who are interested in doing something and making a play out of this? And I mean this is just not you know, my my I mean, I don't know anything about how to write a play or organize a play but that would be uh, I think worthwhile pursuing, you know to to You know patty, I mean if we could do like a marketing outreach to church groups And uh Maybe just find finds Connecting points where we can Make this interesting make make this available Then we should package it already somewhat and we would need Pete, you know to to put a bow around it But but link it up as a as a play that we suggest and that we would love for Sunday schools to to advance for some for children Is the play finished enough to be in the position For us to market it. Is it something that they're done and using already? Well, they are not the groups that that we have there are using it and they were actually There there's there's one one the thomas I think is his name he wanted to write something completely different but So here's what this looks like the choice and source of soil um And it suggests, you know a A play The battle for survival um, and an an array of folks where it has four acts um And the lead in story is would be this one here Not a story of soil Um, I think we had hold on that there was something simpler than that Mm-hmm What grade level what age group is this aimed for? This this first one is for small kids It because it looks more complicated than I would think small kids would be able to absorb But I am no teacher or author of children's plays So so I look at the outline you just showed us and I'm like that is pretty complicated for like a first grader Let's say or a second grader Yeah, it's it's this this is sort of middle school level Okay. Okay. So middle school is very different then. Yeah. And so the the Lady in Kansas she's downsizing it for little kids, but she's actually She's saying they all go they're only going to use three children and then insert adults into the play Okay, so I don't know what they're coming up with now. Got that. Who wants to be the earthworm? I want to be the earthworm That's right So this is the lead in story the choice in soil of soil. He has the story of joy And he has the story of soul And so that's the lead in and then from there we come into the title of the play You know so so that translates then so those are two files That we would need to package up Now so the choice in soil of soil is a lead in and then here is Is a suggested outline for the for the play Feel free to modify it any veg pair you want and if you need more research or more No specific questions call us and we'll see what we can work out So you're saying that this is an estate to get Basically propagated and for us to do to to tell more people about it So that other schools might pick up or other churches might pick up on it. Yeah, cool Yeah, I would I mean if if Pete can can wrap something around it, you know make this Look put in a little booklet form and so on I could go back to the Sierra Club and say look we advanced there's a little bit more We already have a couple churches working on it. Anybody else interested in picking this up no and Now patty, maybe you can Do a marketing outreach and see where else that could be promoted I mean, it's free, right? I mean, I assume Jerry, I don't know how we want to go about it But we could have this license that we talked about That it puts the The Rides back to us, but you know, it allows others to use it But please give us the credit for it. Right, right And I'm all in favor of open source and stuff But we may want to charge a nominal fee for the for a pdf sold through amazon or and amazon may not I don't know if they just if they will host things that are completely free. I've never asked about that If there's no if there's no charge on purpose for a document will amazon still sort of sell that I think you were going to ask something or say something. Oh, yeah, thanks. I was just going to um Say if for the marketing outreach piece it'd be helpful for me to have a sense of What What would those conversations not just look like but when What what is the When do I like wash my hands cleaning the conversation, you know, how do I how do I know that what we're trying to do has been done is it just conversations with churches and Sunday schools and trying to Feel out like hey, is this something you're looking for? I would you know like to have more conversation on what you think that could look like and Well, right Or we'll do we'll do Some kind of a one-page introduction Okay, um and put some put some creative artwork around it That shows it's directed towards children so graphically speak to children um, and and and then uh Directed at Various church schools. I would just look up the headquarters of churches um You know because they they are pretty pretty organized in in that they For sunday schools, for example, they have pretty structured sunday school teachers and programs and so on so if you go to evangelicals or Independent churches and say, you know, we have this play here. Would you be interested? In in uh in in using that for your school program, you know Aren't um dude and I could be wildly off base about this don't aren't churches aren't there they're not church chains Are there I'm just I'm just thinking of those like grace church, which I know has that's that's uh That's an established that's not just here in this area I know those grace churches all over the state. Are there some is there's some kind of central hub among these That's can't be called church chains. Are they just called there there's a nominee there denominations. That's for sure Okay, right, right so like southern baptists which split recently into a more conservative group and a more Liberal group, but there's lots and lots of denominations out there And that they sort of act has changed there are some churches that are very affiliated and almost behave like franchises And there are other churches that are just really independent and they happen to you know Use the same documents and and the same literature or whatever. Yeah And some of them are very progressive Yeah, you know and some of them are like Margaret headquarters Yeah, I have a feeling that one of the things we should do is figure out I think green green evangelicals or a place to start And to figure out where are those people speaking and how do they speak because I have a funny feeling that The language and imagery of the movement is very specific to the movement and that thing And if we can if we show up and we use progressive lefty eco Wrapping for this play and then show up and say with great intentions.  We might actually get a whole lot of traction because they're like, oh, this looks friendly Let's put it in the system along with whatever other resources we have But but we don't we're completely ignorant at this point about what the eco techno socio ecosystem of green religious folks looks like And just a couple conversations will probably enlighten us a whole great deal about that Yeah, and and uh What what I have learned Um Over the last few years when you reach out to groups like this. It is much more effective to talk about water You know, because everybody's concerned about water Um, then climate change Change is too abstract a concept But the the and and we can we can frame that In the introduction letter You know, for example, did you know that one percent of organic matter of of life inside the soil Or one one percent of increase in soil organic matter Uh, uh Has the soil hold an additional 20 000 gallons of water per acre So, uh, I was mentioning I had a meeting with Tim Knopp, you know here in the state senate About the about the soil health bill that's pending in Oregon And he had a young man his staffer, you know, is also a small scale farmer And we had a farmer on the team and he was saying I I have achieved five percent Soil organic content in my you know in my land And I said that means that your soil can hold a hundred thousand gallons of water per acre And it just blew them away because you know, the people don't know that And so when we bring in something like this and we point out the relationship between soil and water And how important it is for soil to have these little buckets inside, you know These worms and these microorganisms and all that Because that then defines that then drives The capacity of the soil to stimulate the local rain cycle, you know, the local water cycle and so on and so on Um So we don't even need to say climate change at all And that that's in the so even this conservative Church groups, you know, you you you don't run into that Reflexive pushback. Yep. And that that's very much what I was talking about in the sense of framing tone language all that and and that makes a lot of sense Jerry you mentioned there's the green evangelical movement that you you know is is already on this beat. Do we know of any other churches or denominations that are Generally open to friendly this cause or are spending time and energy Inserting themselves into the cause interacting with this cause Aside from the green evangelical No idea. I have I have no idea class. I don't know if you have any any finer sort of Finer descriptions of these groups. Oh, I think I would just just go online And and I mean one simple search, you know should yield Yeah, major just like major denominations in north america major religious denominations in north america and then then crap them one by one and find out where the headquarter located It might also be interesting just to ask chat gpt. Which religious domination denominations in the u.s. Are interested in earth soil fertility Agriculture water any of those kinds of issues and that might that might cough up a list of places to start Yeah, okay Are you up for it? For the marketing campaign, uh-huh. I can help. Yeah, I can I can I can try putting together some kind of Would be a pdf a one page Cover for the yeah Um Another thing that would be really useful would be to be written up in some publication that the people in those communities care about Probably a newsletter or a podcast Definitely, yeah And maybe like claus booking you in as a guest on a podcast along with one of the teachers who's already you know created this as a as a play like having the two of you as guests on a podcast for Uh these movements within their denominations would be fantastic Yeah, that would get a lot of attention Off the off the cuff. I'm already um where my brain is going is Where can we maximize claus if it does something you move forward with claus something like interviews and being present in these spaces How can we move forward in the spaces that are going to get more? um viewership listenership and maybe aren't like the the niche niche pockets of the Of the population we're Trying to work with and I don't I don't know what it would look like to to find that again What are these hubs are their hubs within these denominations or churches that we can? approach first and Be more efficient with our time In that way and maybe that's not the aim. What how does that sound to you guys? Yeah, I would say um We if we make this flyer generic enough And this is why the soil and water Reference, you know, it's giving it's giving you just a great entry. Everybody's worried about water. You know Doesn't matter whether you're in cancers of loyta or california Everybody is aware that water is an issue. So by by bringing in this connection You know of of soil soil Um, that is not healthy is disrupting the water cycle actually You know, so but so soil needs to be healthy To to hang on to water You know and and supports the this what is called the small water cycle But the storage of water. I mean I was In a in a discussion in california, you know, with the pharmaceutical they were complaining About wanting the state to invest billions of dollars For water capture ideas And as I why don't you just increase your soil content your organic content in the soil by one percent And you will be able to hang on to 14 million acre feet of water and I mean that that's you know, so so these Just even farmers who have been in the business for a long time Haven't made that connection, you know between water holding capacity of the soil So if we do something generic enough Then we can just mass A mass mail this out. We don't have to be too concerned About customizing the message, you know My question clouds would be and maybe there's a simple answer for this But can you help me understand how knowing that so let's say I'm I'm learning this for the first time, right? I'm in I'm in my community. I hear this message and is is that Where is their actionable? Where can I take action knowing that the the what you just explained how increasing the organic content of soil by one percent allows that square acreage to hold so many thousands of gallons more water Like okay, so I hear that what can I do knowing that? to Create change in my community is is is there a way forward in that way? And if we can I'm just thinking like the sticking power of that idea might be a little stronger if we have actionable ways for people to Not just just understand that knowledge, but to to do something with it Right. So as part of the play We have act four way of hope You know and so this that's restoration. So the synopsis amidst the soil a team of hope emerges So when they count as pollinators whose presence ignites the spark of life, you know Um the introduction of sustainable practices offer a solution And together we soil the impact on a journey to restore balance and harmony. Don't forget the mycelium What's that? Don't forget the mycelium So important So the the dialogue should so because we don't want to over complicate this now the The this because this is now middle school So at the most but now you introduce the idea of sustainable practices Okay, and and a church can then pick we can now create another one saying what are these sustainable practices? No, and and but then that gets really complex now um But then but what we can do is we can add a discussion guide to this So the church so after the play you know, then we then then We can take we can encourage the group To engage the audience in the discussion in the q&a And in that q&a then we can say okay, so here's what that would look like So patty were you also asking whether there should be a website for this project that we can route people to that can say If you're interested look here go here do this I wasn't suggesting that that's a great suggestion. Yeah, that's uh, I like the idea. Yeah, no that wasn't uh That that could be that could be an avenue for that action taking, you know If you want to learn more go here It would be very simple to stand the simple one out More elaborate is a lot of work, but a very simple website with a you are memorable url and all that is like unbelievably easy to do so We could do that and then we could post resources on it that say Watch these three watch these three videos. Uh, here's two good books and here's a community that's talking about all this You can join us that that's a lot. I mean If we if we sort through the the resources available intelligently and give them a few really juicy links. That's that's a good value to lots of people Yeah, it doesn't have to be complex But I mean for example, we could add an article. There's a little I have on on my PowerPoints I have one page that's that has a little picture in there 1% of organic matter adds 20 000 gallons of water per acre All right, and then you can click on this and it gets you to the article that explains this Yeah, that kind of thing I I wonder and it could be that it's already present. I'm just missing it. I wonder if there's some way we can Close this To me could feel like an abstract loop for someone to understand. How does this knowledge fit into my life? You know, how how would You know, I heard you say there's you know, there's much more concern for water and a little bit more Relatability to the threat to water than this like really broad abstract idea of climate change for some so what could is there something a a statistic a Not a fear fact, you know, but something kind of coming down the pipeline That if this remains unchecked if this continues to move in the direction it's moving Like these people will lose something like, you know, how can we relate? This idea to their immediate imminent future Could that be beneficial? Do we not need that? Are we not looking for that here? Are we just looking to introduce the idea and That's good Yeah Yeah, I'm just I'm just thinking what what could I Let me just take a look And tying that back around to to Jerry's idea of the illustrated pain chart You know, I wonder if if there could be like really it would be probably oversimplified but you know if we get to level seven frowny face, you know, what would that what are the Consequences that align with earth getting to level seven frowny face and all the way down all the way up the scale and again, that's that's might be unrealistic and also Not helpful because that'd be too simplified for what might be trying to be captured but you know, the In the face of something so abstract and so scary Make simplification could be yeah. Here's a power point that I just used for the climate reality co And uh, so that that I mean that gives you some introduction We could use some of the slides even, you know My soil health is important small water cycle um You know, so so that gives you And this this is really a power down presentation to The climate reality volunteers who who don't know much about anything in agriculture So that's how I how I was leading them into the conversation Jerry, I think there's lots of things This feels very very fruitful like there's many things we can do many things we can try We should try as soon as possible to Interview one or two or three people who really are from these communities and know what's going on And could then steer us and say sounds like a great idea sounds like a terrible idea You should talk to these two people and then Here's a way to look at it or whatever But but we're we are very much outside the communities are trying to influence And that doesn't work well unless you talk to people on the inside like from the get-go Otherwise we're baking in All our own assumptions and preconceptions and we're saying hey look we're here to help we have great intentions But we don't speak your language and we don't even know how to communicate with you Yeah, and then when you maybe are speaking with Religious groups we may have to weave in something about spirituality And I will say that Kevin Doyle Jones's wife is an Episcopalian minister who Ran for higher office and almost was elected to like a major role in the church Sorry Anglican, I think Anyway, that that Kevin is Kevin is extremely accustomed to working through religious things He is of course every now and then a bit thorny to talk to and goes up on his own mission But but he likely knows a couple people we could talk to and he I'm We can we can approach Kevin and say hey dude We're trying to learn more about green evangelicalism. Who should we talk to and he will have he ought to have a couple names I think Kevin is a great idea. He's very connected to to The communities of faith. I think it's what you call them. Yep And and I think he would jump The best thing we could do pat is for you to talk with Kevin one on one Now because by the time I get in there changes the chemistry and all of that Sure. Yeah, okay. I can reach out to Kevin. Yeah, I think you work really well. I think he'd love this idea. Yeah Okay That would be a great thing to do and we can do that whenever and report back Through the matter most or email and I think that'll be just just great Do you do you foresee this being a more fruitful conversation? If we were to talk face to face on zoom or just an email conversation would be Enough to get what you're looking for. Um, I think um I'm thinking it might be really useful to come from you patty because both claus and i will probably complicate matters with with kevin Uh, he would be happy to hear from you If you can explain it over email and say answer here or happy to get on zoom with you if that's faster or more efficient That gives him the choice to of of of which mode works better and uh, he Doesn't do punctuation much, but he uh, but he he's got he's got he's connected He will respond Okay, that should work fine. Do you have his email? Uh, yeah, I do. Cool. Yeah, so let me just Let me just give you the two files. So this is the need and file here And uh And then this here is the uh Play outline file cool So just suggest here's what we've come up with in this on a monday call, you know Feel free to have a look through it What we're what would be really helpful for us right now is to be in conversation with folks who are actually present in the communities we're trying to um to reach and to work with Do you have any connections that would be helpful in us building these conversations and getting to know These communities a little better What I would suggest is If you tell them that we we released the prior balloon With these with these two five business file with the lead in file And we had an instant feedback from two churches Uh, who want to incorporate this as a sunday school play Okay, we developed we asked chat gpt to develop a script for a play Uh based on these stories And we sent that out and now we have two churches working on You know making turning this into a sunday school play one for Little children and one for middle school children Um, so now we we start why don't we package this? And just send it out to communities of faith, but we need to Find the right way of saying things. So if you could help us Uh, structure this into a message that resonates And then if you could help us, you know, uh, maybe with with uh Some contacts in the church community or in communities of faith who may be interested in helping us with this Okay Okay, so a little a little more than hey, who do you know? But hey, would you be willing to help us and um creating the language that we could use to deliver This this message to a wider a wider group of churches Okay, okay Yeah, yep. You can do that I will um, I will put that together today and uh, send it out today and I'll keep you guys posted. Um, as I hear more You don't want to be um cc'd or bcc'd on to the email Okay, I hear you I got you I can do that All good. Yeah That'd be awesome. Yeah, I think that would be a fun project. Yeah Okay, so just to make sure I'm walking away today with clarity around my tasks so putting together The intro one page pdf After that will be after we talk with kevin and get a clear sense of how to package this idea Or should we just make a rough draft of that to start and um, we fiddle with it as we Talk with kevin about language and accessibility of ideas We can do it parallel Okay, but there is there is probably Um Because we're going to stay inside the communities of faith Outreach here, you know, so I don't know if you want to bring in the reference to god or um, you know, I mean that may be the right thing to do because It whether it's all the apiamic religions refer to god, you know, but it's with your Muslim Question, so that should be so so God has created, you know life in this way and You know, it's cherished and so really emotional language You know that connects us to the life inside the soil Which we're just not really aware of and how important that really is You know, and then these are god's creations That are really the foundation of all living things on land so this this kind of emotional connection It feels to me like how much god to bring into our communications It's something we will learn from people like kevin and the people he connects us to and also It may be insincere coming from us in some sense and also It may be more easily integrated by the people who are developing writing up the plays and doing whatever else I'm a little leery of Us adding in a lot of god god did this in order to sound better and not then coming across as like Um, but you know, you don't you don't really believe this. So why are you saying this? Right? So I don't know and I I want to learn how to walk that That path. Yeah, but we can talk about creation Yeah Yeah, it's sort of a neutral No value neutral I'm I'm curious. So having been uh, I was you know, I was a church goer until I was 16 And I could work and schedule myself, you know on sunday So I didn't have to go church anymore, but I had I had that time for 16 years So just pulling from my experience And this is one Catholic church, right? This is not all churches and everyone's different and all these spaces I'm sure I have a lot of differences, but um I'm my concern would be like How do we package this and deliver this idea in a way that commands doesn't command but invites Consideration that it's important, right versus, you know, if we have churches that are really, um You know, they're they have boots on the ground with the homeless in the community or the, you know Food kitchens and like the human aspects, you know, they're I mean in my experience There can be this district between like, oh like what does it have to do with me? The soil, you know, that's but there's a starving, you know a homeless human right over there I can help them that can feel a little more Like like a higher ROI in, you know, my time and energy helping like the human across the street So how do we and maybe that won't be an issue, but I'm wondering how we can Package this in a way that again, it feels like relevant and Worthy use of their energy time and attention where the it might already be directed in other spaces in places that Have a more immediate and tangible Return return investment if you will I might not be applicable in a lot of situations, but I could see that being a barrier in some spaces But I also could be wrong There's an aspect of this that's very much about feeding people because we're not looking at soil fertility Just to hold water. We're looking at it to grow crops to do whatever else There are probably many churches that are involved in community gardens urban farming Other sorts of things and and there may be some insights that we can offer them that they haven't had already although they may be very far advanced But I think there's some really nice direct connections also to if they're busy trying to help people who are unhoused or Or otherwise mentally challenged These are tasks that connect us to the earth again that are meditative that are Healing Like that are that are work that give meaning. There's a whole bunch of other there's another set of of angles here as well that I think some of these Groups are probably already involved in so it feels like there's a lot of close by ways of doing that and how we float something that is General enough to appeal to the groups that are doing very different work And useful enough to be specific. I don't exactly know But I would love to discover Well, I just put in a link the bio nutrient food Association that's a group I've been working with And their mission is to bring to the public's attention the link between soil health and nutrient Quality and density of the food that comes out of the soil so in other words when you when you Have vegetables coming out of soil that has been Hilled and that's basically dead and they're using chemicals those synthetic nitrogen and Mind phosphates and so on to feed that soil so it grows a crop Those nutrients those those crops are nutrient deficient now so that so today There are many crops tomatoes, what have you that are basically their water, you know, whereas 30 40 years ago There would be just rich and full of nutrient qualities and a lot of the Health problems that we have is caught are caused by the nutrient deficiency of the food that we now eat so and again, I mean we we have to be careful how Complicated we make this but no, there could be you could just put in one sentence that saying these little Things these little microbes, you know these little this this life inside the soil not only You know does it you know take care of water and so on it also determines the quality of the food that comes out of it Yeah makes total sense Pluck in pluck in I've got it. I've got a minute, but I wonder just off off the top of my head. I wonder if he could take an angle um clouds what you were just sharing around how you know this this strikes me as a really like upstream solution to a lot of More downstream problems that may be consuming time and energy from these communities if they're trying to address community support at the level of You know xyz feeding people mental illness Lack of meaning community connection, you know this this could be a way to market not market but um Suggest that this is like maybe one of the greatest bang for buck Uses of energy time and attention and this brings support at a much higher level than some of these downstream No When we first talked about this when we bought in so the five layers of explaining right so There is explaining this to a five year old To a 15 year old or 10 year old, you know, so you create age groups That you would explain this concept to so the level of complexity rises, you know as as we move deeper into Uh, you know a more advanced person. So how would you explain this to a 25 year old versus a five year old? So, you know, and this is where the website, I think can give you the flexibility No to lay that out. So here's for sunday schools. Yes. Here is Inter garden. Yes. Here is now middle school. Yes. High school He is adult engagement And and so and so no too, I mean if we want to go that far right so you layer Options, you know to add complexity into the discussion Um, and then the sunday school teachers will determine themselves now the kids won't get this you know, but But the middle the high the middle schoolers in the high schoolers will get it I wonder just and this is this can be way way down the road But I'm thinking if if there are middle schools and even high schools who adopt this down the road Or if if this play this whatever we're delivering gets adapted to a larger level I wonder if there are ways we can build into this larger projects like community service opportunities or maybe there's, you know Credit that you know students can earn by working in communities working at urban farms and things that we we can actually build Pathways and trajectories with this Core idea that you know this it might not be the first quick book, but the play being the The starting point and over time can build those layers of complexity and actually create community integration and involvement That would be amazing I think we need to have an infrastructure of Now a few groups that bite into this and like it and then keep them Keep them Interested by adding the complexity to it So years ago, I met a woman who worked at the center for eco literacy in oakland And went and met with her at the office and then we fell out of touch But their whole thing was connecting with schools and helping schools grow their own food and then make their own Lunches sort of thing like like learn learn about all those connections and they may have a bunch of resources I you know from way back when I have principles of ecology is one of their Things rethinking the school lunch assistance perspective Smart by nature. There's a whole lot of stuff that they did long ago I put them in my brain in 2003 So smart by nature. I put in my brain In 2009 so they've been around for a while and they may be interested may not be I don't know It would be interesting to just knock on the door And I think as soon as we have a couple of assets Like a Very simple website A play that that somebody can download and go riff on and use A neo book for the the other sort of sort of general factual stuff So just we have a couple of things like that Um, we can kind of knock on doors and add resources and see I would be very happy if someone in the community that shows up would like to take this over and just go Make a big bigger thing out of it because I don't know that Any one of us three wants to be full-time working on a community for this this process or project But I think we would all love to roll something downhill that gets some momentum and helps people and takes off So so let's keep in mind to design this in a way That is easily sort of appropriated but not taken over In the sense of other people can have a big effect on what it is we do and how how how it's manifest in the world But it's not easily invaded and co-opted or corrupted Because that's a possibility Yeah, I love that website It's cool. It's a I don't know why they don't have more attention why why there's like Not more going on there. It's very strange. You know, it's it's just it's just all has a lot of moving parts I'm I just inserted myself here in bent and they have family kitchen And they're serving 13,000 meals a month to hold Wow That's a lot and we're talking about bent. I mean, yeah And so and so they they want to build like a regional center And so I just made myself available and I'm meeting with their key driver Um, because that's sort of down my alley is to design stuff like this. That sounds great. Yeah Um, so ask them if there's any people from local churches is part of that project as part of the group and see if you can't You know, pull them into Patty as soon as you have something they are that there's west side church here in bent. That's a they have like over 6,000 members Who might be interested in doing something like this? Yeah, I'll be bad. Yeah well in uh, I'm curious it'd be really helpful for me if Could one of you send over to see and post a link to some kind of Example, uh, just so I kind of have a sense of what I'm trying to create with this pdf some kind of aesthetic that Or even just how much um text to graphic ratio on that first page I'm having a hard time visualizing what What I'll be creating it might I get the sense it might seem clear to you But it's my first time doing something like what you're describing. So an example would be really helpful If you've got one or could send one Yeah, to me it's clear as soon as I look at it Yeah, okay If it close if you can go look through your pdfs from other projects and other organizations And if one of them like if one of them triggers you and you're like, oh, yeah That was a really clear invitation to some thing and then just forward that to patty and me Um, I think you're getting more of them from this genre Because you're so involved in it and I will think about it as well from other projects Yeah, it's a little bit like um On the ogl list you you all saw that marshal Kirk patrick who lives here in portland is just he did a guest issue for Azim azar About a generative AI, but then he started a newsletter The sunflower project or something like that And a lot of us who really really think he's smart and like his work. We're like, yes Yes, this is good and forwarding it and and doing other kinds of stuff So we can we kind of want something viral like that sort of naturally viral okay There was I'm still looking for something I'd seen this was like on pinterest or something a long time ago. There is this Climate circles you could host in your own community if you were the whole tagline was if you're getting If you're feeling scared about climate change use something about it host a climate circle in your own community And there was this whole I can't find it But it was it was a whole framework of how to Like they supplied the literature they supplied the talking points You just had to show up and start the conversation and it was something that could be deployed In communities without you know, like in this example klaus having to you know Fly out to each space and help teacher host it was just something that was able to grow on its own and how can't find it I'll keep looking though. Yeah. Yeah Let's show those in through the matter most channel. We've got okay And we're coming close to the end of our time. I just want to confirm That we are not able to meet together until august 7. Is that correct July 31? You're also camping class Um, let me get back to my calendar. Yeah, thanks Because I want us I want us to set the next actual zoom call so that we know when we're reconvening Yeah, so august 7. Yeah August 7 is the first possible next one. Cool. That sounds great. So I'll I'll post that on the channel so that people know not to show and and also to Where we are, you know on the collaborations and all that so And feel free to chime in so for for what patty is working on now. We need to also think about Putting in our logo cherry or gm logo or whatever and then the licensing No open course, but no the I forgot the name of the type of license we talked about I think it was cc cc 0 maybe is I think pizza fan of cc 0 from Also did actually on the channel. Oh good. Okay The Where was the thing Oh, it's a creative commons license right commons attribution license. Is that the same as cc 0? I think it is cc by Oh cc by okay Um, can one of you post a link to the matter most channel that this is I Thought I had access to that but I'm not sure if I do another quick thought I wonder if Something that could be helpful for us to start getting a feel in the sense of how other Churches are talking about or just the language that is being used in these communities Can we sign up our own emails to like get the newsletters from certain churches that may have? Like the green evangelical evangelical websites Can we find their spaces and sign up for newsletters and just see like what? What do they look like and kind of do some market research and and that way over the next few months It could be getting no reason not to yeah, I don't know I mean it'll crowd your inbox if you want to do that, but I thought about that The some of the email newsletters letters have archives So instead of subscribing to the newsletter and getting the new ones just they'll let you see any all of them I have just find one find a couple that do that and just browse them It's a great idea. If that's a much better idea. Yeah I'll do that To to sign up for the channel on the collective comments bad because I know I wanted to include you on some Message and I couldn't because you're not signed up. Yep. I just put a link to it. All right. Can you get to that? Yep. Yep. I'm opening that right now sweet And then you have to go to that particular channel, which is the neo book Right. Okay. I see that It's the link I put in the chat. Yeah. Yeah, I see classes post from yesterday at 10 37. Okay. Yep. So I see that Okay, got it nevermind Okay, that sounds great and um in matter most if you start a message with app channel You will force a push note to everybody who is on that channel Okay for big news or whatever. So, you know, if I say hey, we're gonna postpone for a while I will probably do a an ad channel There it's a little bit annoying because it sends an email that looks a little urgent But that's good because then everybody who who's cared enough to join the channel get the news. Okay Julio And if we could get Pete to take those two files and combine them and then and then Greater file that is locked down so so the Um, I haven't looked through the plays that you shared but they don't have dialogue yet, right? They have an outline of a play, but they're not actually finished plays for schools to share or are they No, I mean, this is pretty much as far as we would go They they have a sample dialogue in them, right Um So so it says so a main character Representing resilience and determination speaks with the firm and steadfast voice Showing a deep concern for the well-being of its companions lines express the urgency to find the solution So those lines haven't been written yet And and we shouldn't or we're just not going to go further in it because right now It's actually not a play that you would hand out to kids to go to go perform Because they would have a hard time interpreting what that sent what that paragraph meant. No, this would go to the teacher So the teacher then has to create the the lines, right? So we actually have two churches now developing lines. Okay And I'm thinking that it's not I'm thinking that right now It's a pamphlet for how to run one of these things and it's not really a play to produce as a document as a play But that's just how I'm seeing those two things is different And if anybody including any of these volunteers who who are writing lines If they wanted to share back what the completed play looks like and then we you know with attribution Whatever we could be their publisher kind of they will yeah, that's that's the equipment That could totally work. That's totally work, but I but I think until we actually have sort of dialogue Um, it doesn't smell like a play quite yet. It right now. It smells like a class assignment Yeah, that's basically what it is Like I wonder if we could offer Um options that like down the road can we offer can we develop and offer a play that does have the fill the complete dialogue So that these teachers that are already laid in with so many other responsibilities At that level don't have to you know, take on another You know, however many hours to write the play themselves, but they could choose and if they want to maybe that is some kind of Experiential something they want to do at their classrooms, but we have the two options to offer I totally agree. So on the website, for example, we could say hey Here's the thing as an exercise and you would create your own dialogue And then here's the thing as a finished play and in fact We might get five different churches who write different sets of dialogues and all five of those might be available for download And and people could go look at them and see which one they like best That would be terrific. We can make this also part of The agreement this licensing agreement, you know, so that we are providing you with all with this Starting point here and in return if you would would Make give us access to your finished product that would be much appreciated and we'll post it now One thing to think about a little bit on the side is if we're going to get a small web presence What would be a good URL for that web presence? what what you know What semi unique descriptive words could be used would it be soil happy soil dot org would it be Soil water and soul dot org would it be i'm just just riffing out loud, but If we come up with one that we all that we the three of us like I will buy it register it and put up a simple site like within an hour And then we can mess with that together so um What what chat gbt suggested here i started in the choice and soles of soil And then chat gbt put the title of the blade the heart of the earth Is that that has to be taken is hardly earth already taken At least the dot com might be I like it water and soil water soil and soul I that that that sounds that feels like a mouthful to say i think i'd stammered halfway through so it doesn't it doesn't roll easily Let me just check to see if the other one is part of the earth I like something like simple and clean like happy soil Yeah, that's kind of that's kind of what i'm thinking. It's kind of cute. Yeah, so heart of the heart of the earth dot org is available Well, about a year that would work if I take away the the Part of the earth dot org is not available when we should go look at see who's got that one and what they're doing Uh, but the heart of the earth works fine Happy soil dot org Is available Happy soil dot org exact match 12 bucks a year. I can buy that no problem. Wow Klaus you're saying lead with water, but happy soil is also water Does happy soil take us off topic or is it a good place to start? No, no, it's a good place to start now Then we will just explain the connection to water I am I am buying the domain now and we'll send we'll put well I will paste to the channel a link to the site and uh, see who wants to help build it Cool. All right Like this sounds great. Makes me happy with grief. We got more accomplished than I thought we would today Very good. And so we're we're in asynchronous mode now until august 7 Um, let's try to make little bits of progress back and forth Let's talk a lot on the channel because that will generate other people's interests and they'll be able to see what's up And this feels good. Yeah, thank you Real quick, is it okay for me to so um My conversation with kevin Doyle is that to remain pretty strictly between us and I don't talk about that on the channel What's the politics there that I don't know? That's it. No, no approach approach kevin. It's kevin Doyle jones. Yeah. Yep. Yes Approach kevin and then say do you mind if I talk about our conversation? Or can I repost this to the to the matter most channel? He should be fine with that He's got no barriers mostly Um, so I you know, he's not heavy on keeping everything private that I know Should be fine, but I would just yeah, I'll ask anyway once you ping him just ask. Okay. If I talk about this Yeah, cool. Sounds good guys. Thanks. Very good. Thank you. Thank you so much Yeah, thanks for your camping and enjoy your travels like wow. Yeah. Yeah, have fun