Coming up on DTNS, Apple has new iPad Pros and laptops. Sony reveals specs for the PS5 and how much location info would you give up to fight COVID-19? This is the Daily Tech News for Wednesday, March 18th, 2020 in Los Angeles, I'm Tom Merritt. And from Studio Redwood, I'm Sarah Lane. From Salt Lake, shaky, I'm Scott Johnson. And I'm Roger Chang, show's producer. Yes, Scott had a 5.9 earthquake in his area there over in Utah. We were just talking about that, our toilet paper acquisition strategies, and more, get the wider conversation, become part of the show at patreon.com slash DTNS. Let's start with a few tech things you should know. A bug in an anti-spam system on Facebook started making posts linking to information on COVID-19 as spam. Facebook VP of integrity Guy Rosen tweeted that the bug was unrelated to changes in its content moderator workforce who were all sent home due to the virus to work from there. The posts were restored and Rosen clarified that not only COVID-19 posts were affected. Just a quick clarification, they weren't sent home to work. They can't work from home because of the private nature of moderation. So that was the worry was that they were sent home and weren't moderating. And he's like, no, it didn't have anything to do with it. Got it, got it. Interesting. Slack, everyone knows Slack, launched a redesign aimed at new users who can now compose a message before choosing which channel it goes to. Channels, apps, and people can now be arranged under custom topic headers in the left-hand navigation. Apps will be able to be available through a lightning bolt button in the text entry box. And a top nav bar will show frequently used channels as pending and pending messages. That is the features will roll out on desktop over the next few weeks and mobile afterwards have not seen the change yet. But I think it's long overdue. Let's go. Samsung forecast Wednesday that the effects of trade disputes and COVID-19 would reduce sales of smartphones and other consumer electronics. But that demand from data centers would raise sales of its memory chips. Chief Executive Kim Kinnom said he expects chip makers to focus on upgrading manufacturing processes rather than increasing chip capacity. Google's second Android 11 developer preview is now available with hinge angle detection support called Screening Improvements and updates to its neural networks API. It also includes a preview SDK with system images for pixels 2 through 4 XL and the official Android emulator. Those with the previous preview will get an OTA update. Google did, however, pause updates for Chrome and Chrome OS with the development team explaining on Twitter that adjusted work schedules have impacted Chrome progress. They'll prioritize updates related to security. All right, let's talk a little bit about what probably would have taken an hour and a half to tell us in a previous world that just came out as a bunch of press announcements today. New Apple products. Yeah, that's right, a whole bunch. Apple announced iPad Pros with LiDAR for depth sensing in the back of it looks a lot like your new iPhone 11 Pro if you have one. 8-core GPU, A12Z Bionic chip in a neural engine or with neural engine rather and embedded M12 core co-processor. Presser back and I can't speak today. M12 co-processor. The new chip allows for 4K video editing, 3D editing or 3D design and the AR. The 11 inch model starts at 799. The 12.9 model starts at 999. This is in silver and gray. They still call it space gray. Coming in May is a new magic keyboard with a backlit keyboard and trackpad amounts with a circular cursor that changes shape over different interfaces comes to the iPad models. And that means all of them, not just these through iPadOS 13.4 that starts March 24th. You can see a little bit in their commercial and in their video where they show up being used. It seems interesting. And some of the oldest iPads won't get it but if you bought one in the last four to five years it's going to get it. Yeah, if you can, I guess if you can support 13.4 you're probably okay. Apple also launches a 13.3 inch MacBook Air replacing the butterfly keyboard with scissor style keys. Many are rejoicing at this news. Storage ranges from 260 gigabyte, 56 gigabyte up to two terabytes of space. The new Air has Touch ID and 10th Gen Ice Lake Intel Core CPUs and Iris Plus graphics starting at $999. Apple also updated the Mac Mini with twice the storage capacity, a base model with 256 gigabyte. SSD costs $799 and the 512 gig model costs $1099. Mac Mini still use the 8th Gen Intel CPUs. Well, I gotta tell you, I haven't used an iPad regularly for some time now. When the iPad Pro came out I went, oh that's probably a good reason to get an iPad. I never have. I've never even played around with an iPad Pro honestly besides quickly at an Apple Store a couple years ago. So this is getting to the point where I'm like, I really want that. Don't need it, but really want it. Even just Apple's own teaser video which is always very splashy and makes it look like the coolest thing ever. It's so close to a laptop. It's like we're halfway through Morph right now. It's a solid hybrid situation although people who have other types of hybrid laptop tablets can probably point out how the iPad Pro isn't quite there yet on some of the features. But this is what I want. The trackpad has a lot to do with it. Keyboard looks good. The mouse stuff. We were talking before the show. We knew that that was happening already but it is a pretty cool little machine that I want to find a reason to need. Quick note for artists real quick. I meant to mention this before I forget. If you were going, hey I may upgrade to this because I really like all the new features but still it's primarily an artist tool for me. The good news is the Gen 2 pencil still works with this version of the iPad. You don't have to buy a new pencil like what happened last time. The downside is if you were a Gen 1 or Gen 1.2 owner of the iPad Pro and you have a Gen 1 pencil, those don't work with the newer iPads and you'll have to get one of these $130 if that's your plan. So just wanted to squeeze that out. Yeah, that's a good tip of mine. A lot of people are talking about the mouse capability. We've talked about this before on the show but it's cool. It's not always there. So if you're using it as a touchscreen, it's not gonna get in your way. It shows up when you're using the mouse as a circle so that it doesn't obscure things and also if you're using the touchscreen, it doesn't get in your way. But it adapts based on the interface which that was the part I found the coolest is it's not just the circle all the time. Sometimes if it needs to be a different shape to make things make sense, it turns into that. So that'll be kind of fun. This thing is more powerful than a lot of PCs but it's also at the top end anyway, the same price as a 13.3-inch MacBook Air which gives you full multitasking and a mouse all the time and all of that. So kind of depends on what you want at this point but it's a very powerful tablet. Yeah, it's sort of like the iPad Pro gives you more flexibility as to the form factor but still depending on again, yeah, which apps are you running? Which programs do you use all the time? What do you need it for? The air is possibly the better idea and it is about as light as air. Back in a quick note about the Mac Mini's in December, I picked up a Mac Mini maxed out as much as I could for production work here in the studio and I've been very, very happy with it but I was really sad this morning when I heard about this until I read up on it and so it's, there are improvements but it's not that big of a deal. So if you were like me and you weren't late last year, early this year picked up a mini, it's not that different. It's a nice incremental change but not that much. Sony announced the PlayStation 5 will have a custom 8-core AMD Zen 2 CPU at 3.5 gigahertz variable frequency with a custom variable frequency GPU based on AMD's RDNA2 architecture which promises 10.28 teraflops and 36 compute units. The PS5 will also have 16 gigabytes of GDDR6 RAM and a custom 6,825 rather gigabyte NVMe SSD for load time of five gigabits per second. The PS5 will also have a 4K Blu-ray drive and support USB hard drives as well. That's five gigabytes per second in case somebody was paying close attention. It's gonna load fast. That was what Sony was really paying attention to here is the fact that they will have fast loading times off of that solid state drive. They're trying to make an argument that because they have variable frequency in the processors that a lot of times this will be as good if not better performance than comparable or more advanced CPUs looking at you, Microsoft, which just edged them out on pretty much all of these specs in the Xbox Series X announcement. Fact of the matter is, if you get powerful enough games down the road that will max out the CPU and then you don't get the benefits of the variable frequency. But at least at the beginning, you probably will. And I'm sure Sony will put out upgraded versions with upgraded CPUs at some point down the line. But Scott, I mean, that said, what do you think of this PS5? I'm impressed with the specs. You're right about them being, I mean, honestly, an actual practicality is probably not gonna be all that different when you get the same third-party game side-by-side and we won't really know until we start doing that with Xbox Series X and PlayStation 5. However, the five gigabyte per second load times, that's crazy.  That's just crazy time and a very exciting thing for gamers. I'm also really happy to hear they're gonna let you continue to support external USB storage. I assume that means not just SSD external storage, but USB-based spending drives and things that are cheap right now. And probably for the PS4 games because those don't get the advantage of the fast load time anyway. Yeah, that's a good point. Plus, at some point, a lot of times what you're doing is just storing data and you're not so worried about access times. The real access time performance is gonna happen on the main drive with the game you're playing right now anyway. All of this looks good. I think both consoles look like they're really shaping up to be interesting. Honestly, to me, it's going to be a fight over services and exclusives. Sony's gonna have a strong out-of-the-gate exclusivity deal going, which they have already, which is what made their last generation so strong for them. And Microsoft really poised to do interesting thing with services. So that particular point of competition is maybe more exciting than the specs to me. So well, yeah, the specs are close enough. But as Roger, our producer points out all the time, it really depends on the prices of these things. Like the spec difference can seem larger or less important, depending on what the price of the Xbox and the PS5 are. Yeah, $4.99 each, by the way. That's just my guess. That's your prediction? All right. Tesla workers who produce, service, deliver or test its electric vehicles showed up for their job Wednesday at its Fremont, California factory despite the fact that Alameda County is under an order to shelter in place. That's where that factory is. Alameda County requires non-essential businesses to close. Tesla's human resources head Valerie Workman reportedly told employees that the Department of Homeland Security considers Tesla to be national critical infrastructure. But Tuesday, Alameda County's sheriff declared Tesla non-essential. However, in an email to employees Wednesday, Tesla said, quote, we have had conflicting guidance from different levels of government and so they're staying open for the time being. Now this is in a spectrum situation. If you can work from home Tesla wants you to work from home. If you're sick, they want you to stay home. They're doing a lot of things to help employees work from home if they can. But they're keeping the factory open and doing a lot of cleaning and things to keep it safe. Whereas other automakers are just shutting down. Han does shut down its 12 U.S. plants for six days. GM, Ford and Fiat Chrysler are expected to announce shutdowns for all factories today if they haven't already. You will hear that they will. So Tesla's bucking the system here and I'll just go ahead and say it right now. These companies need to either not be shutting down or continuing to make their vehicles. They need to be retooling their factories to make what is important to fight the virus. This is becoming a World War II type situation. And I remember my grandpa worked for American Can Company in the 40s and they became Amritorp. He worked for Amritorp and they made torpedoes until the war was over and then they went back to be an American Can Company. And that's going to have to happen to a lot of factories. I think if we're going to make up the gap in this country anyway of a lot of the supplies we need for hospitals to fight this. Yeah, do you see a day where, I mean, I know so little about either industry but people talk about the shortage of respirators and that sort of thing. But it seems like certain manufacturing concerns may have capabilities beyond just the card. We did a story on DTNS about, I can't remember who it was, Foxconn but it was a consumer electronics supplier. I think it was Foxconn that was retooling to make, I think masks, but they were making health products. I don't know enough to say what Tesla's supply, what Tesla's factory is best suited for but it is perfectly conceivable that it could retool to make something. It could make batteries. There are all kinds of things and that's what these companies should be doing is saying, what can we do to help? Tesla's trying to say, our batteries are important, our cars are important for transportation. Maybe that's true, maybe it's not. Sounds like DHS might be telling them that but what I wanna hear Tesla saying and all these companies is, we are here, tell us what you need and we will try to make it. I will do a quick note that I think it was sharp that was transitioning one of the factories to making masks. Yeah, I think Tesla's saying, well listen, we're getting conflicting reports. Sheriff wants us to shut down but Homeland Security says we're critical infrastructure. That is true, I mean cars are critical infrastructure. If there's an emergency and you need to get somewhere and you can't do it on foot, you need a car, right? So Tesla is in that category but yes, I think in this situation that we're in now, you're right Tom, I mean being able to flip a factory to do something that really is extremely important in an emergency situation that we're in that would be critical infrastructure. Yeah, that's my thoughts in a nutshell. Well, also infrastructure for the future anyway, perhaps critical in the future as well. Satellite company, Link, that's Link with a Y, tested one of its orbital cell towers meant to provide phone connectivity from space without needing special satellite phone hardware. A text message was sent to an unmodified Android phone using one of its satellites which the company claims is the first time this has been done from space. Link satellite was deployed from the International Space Station on January 31st after being delivered by a SpaceX Falcon 9 back in December. Link needs a few dozen satellites to provide service and believes if it can get regulatory approval it could have service running by the end of this year. Now 4G service would require thousands of satellites but this is a start. And the satellites are small, these are mini satellites. You can launch several of them at a time. So it's possible for them to get thousands up within the next two years and Link doesn't want to be a main service provider. They wanna be a supplementary provider. They actually wanna sell their service to existing carriers to say will help your coverage map become 100%. So that no matter where you are even if you're out of your ground cell service area you can connect seamlessly to ours. That's the technology Link has developed. So they wanna provide supplemental coverage in those little places that don't have great coverage and also rural areas where there just aren't cell towers built and this is a promising technology if it works as advertised. It's impossible to not read this and not think about the kind of supplemental connectivity we might be able to enjoy during times of crisis. Yeah, right. Yeah, so I mean even if this rolls out slowly and it's not the fastest types of connections the sort of things we're used to with our broadband home-based land-based stuff. I don't know, every time a story like this comes up I just think oh here's an opportunity to learn a little something like maybe we can come up with some cool back-end solutions that are also very usable when times are great and everybody can have the full coverage you were talking about for these carriers and everything else but in these off times maybe this is a great way to bring connectivity to places that can't get it to really need it when a crisis hits. Well folks, if you wanna get all the tech headlines each day in about five minutes be sure to subscribe to DailyTechHeadlines.com. Washington Post sources say the US government is in talks with tech companies including Google and Facebook about how cell phone data could be used to slow the spread of COVID-19. Health experts involved in the talks believe that aggregated anonymized location data would be useful. They don't necessarily arguing that you have to have individualized information in this particular conversation. In other words, knowing general patterns of human movement could help inform disease spread.  As an example, Andrew Schrader is a Vice President of Research and Analysis at Direct Relief. That's an international disaster relief organization in Santa Barbara, California. It's one of 125 nonprofits and research institutions that use data from Facebook's data for good program. Direct Relief has used it to track population movements during natural disasters and disease outbreaks since 2017. So he's been working with California officials to gauge how much people are complying with recommendations to stay home. Facebook data is chunked in 600 meter tiles. So that's enough to not be able to track individuals but to know like oh yeah people are still going to the bar even though we told them not to. Facebook also launched co-location maps in Hong Kong to show where people from different geographic locations are most likely to cross paths. That can help understand how likely people in an outbreak spot might intersect with other locations.  You know to tell that neighborhood too over hey let's start testing you. Let's start doing preventative measures here. It's only useful if there is useful case location data and here in the United States the CDC only releases data on a statewide basis. So they can't do it here yet. Now separately from all of this conversation about hey can we get some of this location data to be used by the government. A letter was co-signed by epidemiologist executives physicians and academics suggesting that tech companies provide an opt-in privacy preserving OS feature to support contact tracing for individuals who might have been exposed to someone with the virus. This would allow if there's enough testing to say okay we know I know I came in contact with someone from the virus because I was in this place at that time let me go get tested to make sure I'm okay. Israel is enabling something like this by passing a law requiring the use of mobile phone data to track people who have COVID-19. It can be used to identify and quarantine those who have come in contact with them and enforce the quarantine restrictions on those who are definitely infected. Again this requires testing to carry out carriers will be required to share subscribers location data with Israel's security agency and health officials. So here we have proposed ways of doing this a sort of a broad way of saying hey can we just get some generalized data so we know where people are. There's a little bit more specific data of hey can we get people to give us their information so we might be able to track where infected people are going. That only works if you have very comprehensive testing and then you have the government in Israel's case just mandating we're going to know where you are and we're going to test you and if we find out you're infected we're going to take appropriate action. You may have levels of comfort that differ with all of these different approaches but there are some examples of this that we can look to that have already happened. South Korea created what's called a virus patient travel log and the government published routes of people from before they were diagnosed. The government just went and mandated this information and said look if you were diagnosed with COVID-19 we're going to publish GPS history, credit card transactions, surveillance video and personal interviews with patients to say this person went here, here, here and here so that other people could check that. A central website and text messages were used to alert people if they might have crossed paths with infected people because they knew this infected person went to this store this person was in that store at the same time let's alert them so they can go get tested and they had comprehensive testing in South Korea. Anybody could go get tested they had drive-through centers etc. As of Tuesday, South Korea's 50 million people appeared to have greatly slowed its epidemic. It reported 70 new cases on Tuesday down from a peak of 909 February 29th and it has done so without a lockdown. This system was what they used to mitigate the spread. If you don't know this kind of information then you have to tell people to shelter in place because you don't know who's infected and who isn't. Singapore's government hosts a website that includes the age, gender and occupation of all its coronavirus patients and where they traveled recently Singapore also seeing a low transmission rate and some Japanese regions have made some public information about patients movements including gyms, restaurants and hospitals available but they've taken a little more of a privacy protection route there Japan's infection rate does not seem to be too terrible right now either. So here's the question knowing what the effects are where some privacy was trampled and there are lawsuits in South Korea over what the government did there and knowing what's happening in other places like Italy where the infections are still growing all the time and they are in lockdown, how much and I'm not saying I have the answer how much privacy are you comfortable giving up in order to combat this? Well, could it? Oh, go ahead Sarah. Well, here gentlemen first. I'll just throw this in because it seems like it goes a little bit with what Tom was saying earlier about manufacturing products during wartime or in a time like this where you tool up to do something else that will help with the situation. Couldn't something like this be couldn't some of this be temporary measures or do we need or is there enough data that can't be gathered if we're not doing it all the time? I guess it'd be the question is there is there a way to do this? So it's like for now for the next foreseeable months we got to do this and it's here are the benefits and yet well the other worry is that once you let them start doing it they won't stop even though they say they will. Yeah. Or people just get used to it and all of a sudden you know we're in a situation where it's gotten away from us and you know the privacy will never come back. I think that if this had been proposed I don't know as recently as just a couple of weeks ago without the data from certain other countries where it's like this was effective and here's why even though it's going to upset some people there's going to be some privacy issues there's going to be some people who are a backlash right? If it would I think a lot more people would be like hold on a second now we're not going to start tracking people who are sick kind of thing. The fact that a lot of this has to do with where you were before you were sick or before you knew you were sick that's the data because that's where before you're starting to act accordingly because let's just assume everybody in the world wants to keep everybody else safe for the most part right? We're all trying to do what we can. The lockdown thing happens because it's like we don't know how to get a handle on this so let's just go the absolute extreme measure because that's the only choice we have. If it was again temporary because this is a crisis situation and everybody wants it to go away as soon as possible for health and economic reasons and all across the board I am okay with this. I'm okay with at least in let's just take the U.S. government as one example because I can't speak for everybody in every country. This would be okay with me if it led to fewer cases of COVID-19 in the near term instead of skyrocketing numbers. I agree. I'm ready for it. I have no problem with it. I already feel like so much of me is already out there and again I want to speak for other people. I know there's going to be disagreement on this but if it meant slowing that to those rates take my data. I don't care. But what if it doesn't? Because that's where we are in the United States where one element of this that made it work in South Korea was they had comprehensive testing. So in exchange for, you know what? You're going to give up some privacy. You're going to have some embarrassing revelations that you went to a love hotel but we can have everybody tested.  If you don't have that testing then you're giving away this private information for what? Yeah. I mean if it was sort of like hey this is going to help and someone somehow knew it wouldn't help then of course that would be a huge problem. But if it's designed to help and doesn't end up being super effective down the road it doesn't mean you shouldn't try necessarily. We know what I'm saying is the system that works requires comprehensive testing. So do you launch it when you're like look we hope to get comprehensive testing so it might not work but we would like to violate your privacy anyway even if it's for nothing. I mean it comes down to confidence. Are you confident that the testing can ramp up fast enough to make this work as well? I guess if you had situations where someone was like I'm not going to self quarantine. I don't think I'm sick. I got stuff to do and they at least had enough information to know that they had been in contact enough to have against reasonable doubt that they might have it then maybe they'd be more likely to stay home. I don't know. I'm just riffing here. It seems like more effort is better than less. But it isn't. At some point if you don't have the combination you don't have the effect. You need to have both sides of the system going for it to be worth it because otherwise you're just you don't have enough data because what's really important is knowing who's infected and who isn't. And if you don't have that data you just have guesses and that's no different than what we have now. Then you're just taking data for nothing. I agree. It's got kind of a kind of it's got a real chicken and egg problem. And I I guess maybe you know hey how about how it ready to go so when the testing ramps up and we're actually there well then maybe then but I feel like I feel like I just I hope that whatever South Korea did it seems like they did it better than anybody else did it and I just hope we can learn from it and not lose our shirts in the process. Well if you'd like to discuss this further Discord would be one option that you could do it. You can join our Discord. Lots of lots of topics are discussed in Discord but it's a great community. Link your Patreon account at patreon.com slash dtns and start chatting away. Let's check out the mail bag. Let's. Matt works for a technology supplier had some thoughts on our charter discussion from yesterday. Charter saying a lot of people should come into work. That's that's how we are more effective as a company and not encouraging stuff to work from home. Matt says since last week when companies have been announcing they're having everybody work from home we have been inundated with requests for everything from notebooks monitors headsets other related equipment. So much that the distribution channel has been completely stripped bare where weeks out on most hardware orders related to work from home setups on top of that if companies haven't been set up in advance with the most with the with the right VPN technologies it may be impossible to have their team set up with these policies for weeks now call centers are particularly difficult to pivot to a work from home configuration. He also says thanks for providing a really great podcast. I look forward to my daily drive home so I can connect with my DTS Palace. Thanks Matt and this is important to bring up just in general that there are a lot of work from home situations that can't happen because the the company's just never needed to prepare for this kind of situation is unforeseen circumstance that said and I'm not I'm not treading on Matt's point here at all Spectrum was not one of those companies from patrons who work at Spectrum to DTNS engineering information system administration and enterprise support teams already operate under a disaster preparedness directive they have VPN access company laptops and full remote access so in Spectrum's case it wasn't that they didn't have the infrastructure to do it they just want to prioritize super serving clients over what I consider to be the safety of their workers in this particular case but that may not be true of other companies just because this is what Spectrum's doing if you see another company not letting companies letting employees work from home it may be because of what Matt's talking about Hey, just want to mention really quickly that my next Live With It segment needs your help because we're trying to figure out the category that we should go with we've got a post up on Patreon you can add your thoughts in the comments you can email us at feedback at daily tech news show or any other way you'd like to get ahold of us but if you've got a great idea for a category a tech category within financial reason of course we'd like to know so that we can we can get me into that guinea pig pen again and making notes shout out to our patrons at our master and grandmaster levels including Tim Ashman Philip Shane and Jeffery Zilx also thanks to Scott Johnson you made it through an earthquake this morning good to have you safe and sound here on the show today what else has been going on with you? Well, other than the various aftershocks a lot of cool stuff the main thing I would like to point people to is art makes me feel better in times like these so I draw a lot and I also have a comic that I put up every Monday called Fred and Ken it's about a guy named Fred and his sentient can of expired cream corn that he talks to all the time and if you think that sounds weird well it is and I think you might enjoy it today is very topical the current strip that's up there so go check it out fredandcan.com you can find everything else I do over at frogpants.com or on Twitter I'm at Scott Johnson Hey folks direct support is the best way to keep this show independent by that I mean Patreon it pays for our livelihoods we're incredibly respectful and appreciative of that now more than ever but just know that we understand a lot of people are getting laid off a lot of people are facing some hard financial decisions if you need to cut the direct support cost for a while we have other ways you can support the show and not feel bad about it take care of yourself and other folks here in our Patreon have already started to pick you up in the meantime because they have the where with all to do that more incredibly appreciative of those people as well you can always promote the show to others as a way to show your support patreon.com slash dtns our email address is feedback at daily tech new show dot com and we love your feedback keep it coming we're also live Monday through Friday that's 4 30 p.m. Eastern 20 30 UTC put it on your calendar tell a friend daily tech new show dot com slash live back tomorrow with Justin Robert Young we know we'll be here we've got nowhere else to go talk to you then this show is part of the frogpants network get more at frogpants.com hope you have enjoyed this program


So some big news coming out of the French open with Alina Rabakina having to pull out with illness She was sick after her second round match and she said to pull out ahead of her third round match against Tormo Which means that the draw up the top gets a little bit easier for players like Shriantek and Jabur Let's go over the look at what she had to say So this is what Rabakina said in the press conference following her withdrawal yesterday and the day before I wasn't feeling good I didn't sleep tonight. I have a fever The right decision is to withdraw because it is tough to play in these conditions I am upset not to be able to play.  There are ups and downs So there you have it Alina Rabakina out of the French open and like I said before that opens up the draw for Shriantek and Jabur Both being able to go on and possibly make it to the semi-finals and play each other The draw looks a lot easier now without Rabakina in that section pulling out with illness So hopefully it's only temporary and she can go on play the grass season Of course, she's the defending champion of Wimbledon and in a unique situation too because her ranking won't be affected By her result at Wimbledon because of course she didn't get any points last year So she's kind of playing for free I guess at Wimbledon, but let me know down in the comments below What does this mean for the top section of the draw? Who is going to make it to the final now because a lot of people did pick Rabakina To maybe win the tournament or even make the final or make that semi-finals against Shriantek Who's gonna make the top section of the draw now to Rabakina out of the French open due to illness


Welcome to 21 convention the red man group for 2020 in Orlando, Florida I will be your host for this episode and today you have a distinguished panel of Mostly alumni speakers, but we have two special guests here And it is their first time speaking at this event And I am very look forward looking forward to hearing what they have to say and their inputs and advice that they can give and The insights thereof Let's start with our introductions. Let's start on the far left. My main man Steve the Dean Williams Why don't you introduce yourself? Tell us where we can get contact to you and where your best material resides With my best what? Intro.  I'm Steve Burley I run a channel called studio Burley where we publish the Femango file and and a whole lot of other content including a Series called the red zone We deal we started dealing primarily with academic feminism and how it's taken over the entire university system and From there how they've spread throughout society to take over pretty much all of the pillars of our society and I could go on but that's oh, we will My name is Pat Steadman. I'm a dating and relationship coach for men Pretty self-explanatory help guys with their dating lives and relationships. You can follow me on Twitter Pat underscore Steadman or at Pat Steadman com I'm socrates. You can find most of my personal work at many and up smart calm There I am a I don't even say I'm a coach really I just help people navigate today's sexual marketplace And in the course of my own personal development as it's been exercised and developed through this venue with 21c and Patriarch event I look at being a father and being a very strong father advocate for both men and men Who are looking forward to create a legacy and for that to be multi-generational I'm Jay Vincent. I'm an exercise entrepreneur on a couple of personal training studios up in New York And my mission is to change the way people exercise to more of a research-based scientifically proven approach And new to the 21 convention. This is my first year Jack you're all right. My name is Jack Donovan. I'm the author of the way of men I've been writing and speaking about men and masculinity and myth for Over a decade now. You can find my work at jack-donovan.com and I'm on Instagram at start the world Elliot Hulse Strong man strength coach father of four father figure to millions of men worldwide became YouTube famous I guess you could say answering young men's questions about growing stronger and their bodies in their lives and That brought me Over two million subscribers and so I got a lot of cool shit. I like to talk about Okay I'm gonna actually pull a little bias and some of the host We're gonna start off with Jay and something you may not know about Jay It's his personal background with 21 convention and I want him to elaborate a little bit about that So you hear that personally from him and kind of understand some of the importance of what his presence here really means I'm particularly very moved by it and I think it is a Tremendous testament to the work that Anthony has done and the opportunities He's provided many of the attendees and men who attend these functions and watch these videos. Yeah Sure, so it was about 2013 I Began my whole exercise journey Really on the path to become a professional fitness model, which I ended up doing so successfully, but um after getting into a Prestigious modeling agency. They told me I needed to put on more muscle. I've been training my whole life at this point I had no idea what to do so Started diligently researching like most of us do on the proper way to exercise to put on this extra muscle that I needed to put on Came across a video at this convention the 21 convention in 2009 by dr. Doug McGuff Watched that whole video start to finish blew my mind and changed away exercise from there and out and It changed the path of my life to becoming an exercise entrepreneur a Professional fitness model and I just found it to be the most life-changing video I've ever seen so I've also I've always had a huge amount of respect For this convention and what the speakers and the people and the information they provide Changed my life and I believe it's going to change the lives of many young men as well So the in fact Jay was literally watching the videos online and now finds himself literally up on the stage Repeating the process for others so passing it forward. I find that remarkable It is absolutely incredible And this is the impact that happens when men get together and develop a male culture and share that amongst each other So I really applied him and the efforts that he's done and be able to tell that story to you today I hope it's influences you Individually to do something similar whether or not you end up here or anywhere else But just know that you can make a tremendous Change in your life for positive influence by by following the men behind you know around me quite honestly Steve let's move over to you. How has 2020 affected you you are known as a machine for podcasting It is stunning that when we were in Warsaw pulling together last year We would go out eat. We're up very very early and at 1 2 in the morning you could flip on a YouTube channel And there were you on a live cast well What I love about the this that this atmosphere is is men You know, it's it's very rare that you get the opportunity to be around real men We're so far and few and this gives me the opportunity and I'm sure that everybody the opportunity to see Not only men, but how it for you guys out there to see how men behave and see how men interact So for me, this has always been great. I mean, I'm I'm eternally grateful for you for you and Anthony for what he's done here This is also giving me an opportunity to meet the panel of the panel of men not guys But the panel of men here and also meet you guys out there And this is just what it gives you more inspiration is to keep going and keep pushing even though you're your own inspiration But when you see that you're changing the lives just one small thing one small detail Then you can take from here and you leave with that and you evolve That's what we all want you to do. And so it's just it's it's like a candy candy store It's like Christmas all over. It's just a great feeling man I'll let you you are known for being a fiercely masculine male not just masculine you train savagely you Live savagely and interestingly enough getting to know you you love savagely Can you talk about that loving savagery? Yeah, absolutely. I'm just born that way.  No, I'm just a savage one of my talks was returned to the father and I'm blessed to be able to give a talk like that because returning to the father to me is Recognizing the savage that he is the blessing to have an alpha male father leader in my home and then to know that That is me. He is he is me and I am him and I can Embrace that because it works my father Raised four of us. He's been married to my mother. There's been you know, that's a rare thing in and of itself They are still together and and I modeled my life after the example that he's made he's 70 years old He was on the stage here last year. He lifts he is very assertive and aggressive with his tone and his Opinion and It's what the world needs more of and so I recognize that maybe I can bring a little bit of that savage daddy to the world That lacks fatherhood Fantastic We're gonna move from savagery to barbarianism. Jack. You're sitting right next to Elliott Interestingly enough you did not speak this year. I know you're developing a book But two full. I'll give you two questions. It's a one-two or the first one Let's talk a little bit about what what drove you to come back even though you were not speaking What was the value? What was the camaraderie? What were the things that you brought you here personally? And the second is can you tell us about the project that took precedence over you speaking and and we discussed earlier? I think you made a great decision on it. I'm glad you kind of do both and we're I'm really glad You can actually sit up here and talk to the guys Yeah, well, you know, I saw who was speaking this year and I hit up Anthony At some point maybe back in June. I was like, I can just come right Is that is that cool? And he's like, yeah, totally you can come and you know, I've spoken here. I think four times and A lot of these guys are my friends and they're guys who have influenced me And you know, this is a year when everybody's been kind of cooped up in different ways and you know it's great to get out and interact with peers and So I wanted to come and do that and you know, it's it's interesting to see people give speeches who They say that I influenced them and I'm like, wow, you went a good direction with that. I gotta think about that That's that's good stuff, you know, so we can all feed back into each other intellectually And so I think that was really valuable for me and also it's just a good time Yeah And so I just wanted to come out and hang out and and it's been great and a little relaxation I'm in the process of moving so I'm like this is a little mid vacation Then I go home and pack a truck and move to utah So yeah, but as far as the the new book That's been my big project, you know, get an idea for a book and Then it's it's just this big homework project that you takes forever And at least for me, some people write them in like three days I don't know how to do that if I can figure out how to do that. I want to sign up But it takes a lot of work. I've had to do a lot of reading and It's ready when it's ready, you know, and the project that I'm working on is basically my Version of king warrior magician lover. I mean, obviously, it's not the same thing But it's the same idea dealing with masculine archetypes and integrating Ideas from really all the religions that are important They've been important to men I mean, you know, there's always a figure of a skyfather in and almost all these religions And why do we need a skyfather and it comes in this patriarch concept, you know men look up to a father You know when you're young you look up to this father and that's your ideal of what a man can be But you you can never be exactly him He's there's a like kind of a platonic form beyond him this ideal of a father and that's really what God's come from You know, that's our idea of God is this father beyond the father And so that's kind of the start of of what I'm working on and that's kind of the father And then we talk about a warrior figure that there's always a warrior figure And he always usually has a thunder weapon and he always kills a giant Snake and and I might butcher the proto into European, but one of the oldest poetic phrases is Uh, uh, which is it means he killed the serpent And it's like one of the oldest poetic phrases that they've reconstructed and that's what men do they kill monsters and I there was actually a book that A guy put out I had it on my on my podcast and uh, he uh Put out a book and he was a warrior and he his book is called we fight monsters I'm like, yes, that that's the thing. That's what that's what's important. And so What we really think of his masculinity comes from that role, you know, I worried about it in the way of men That's kind of that striker role that uh that warrior role and then the third part and tanner brought it up in his speech He's the only one who's read parts of my book And that was that was kind of cool too because he kind of like rolled it out for me in in his speech And uh, so that was that was he told me was going to do that. I'm like, well, I guess I have to show up and listen to your speech but And the third one is kind of that's fertility figure this perpetuating figure begin There's so many things that we do in life That are really just to keep things going You know, it's not all this glory and they're like, oh, I'm strong and I did this whatever No, so much of is just like I have to go and call that person again because I have to build that relationship And he may maintain it and keep it going and uh, you know, it you know Reflects back to the idea of tending crops and and so forth, you know, like this this fertility Pistoral figure and they've always had gods like that which pan and fray and and Dionysus and and all these things so I'm pulling all these concepts together in a way that I think is going to be useful for men because these are all parts of our lives And so I'm pretty excited about the project. The book is actually called fire in the dark Very cool. I'm looking forward to when it comes out Now to give you tonight guys an idea of when jack says hang out He's done this more than once it's it's you start out early in the evening You either find a modern equivalent of a fire camp or maybe it's over by the pool And you have a bottle of whiskey and a couple of guys and you start having conversations like this Invariably you'll go to bed and in the morning you'll be getting up still kind of light out And you'll end up coming across jack and party coming back in slauntering coming on Yeah, um, they they just hung out and talked did man shit the whole evening and saw the dawn And I I just think there's just something way cool and masculine about just that I think that jack helps bring some of that vitality masculine energy and just camaraderie at a scale That is utterly barbaric But is critical to one of the reasons why I think guys come here It's not really for the stage presentations or the talks It's for the the camaraderie in the hallways. It's in the sidebar conversations It's being able to meet and talk to the speakers individually So it's it's not one of these conventions in which people just show up and go home at the hotel at the end of the night Or the very end of the the presentation set. So just keep that in mind. I know this is about third or fourth time I'm I'm kind of guilty of it myself. Uh, but uh, it's it's a absolute horror effort. So congratulations So stave, I know you this is your first time you've come to speak A little bit about your expectations coming in what you knew what you didn't how you felt Your experiences and then uh, we'll pause and I'll I'll follow up with another question after that And we'll talk about feminism and how it's polluting the university systems But how it's probably gone well beyond that to the k through 12 And the risk involved with sending your children to quote Rome And then when they return have them not speak to your tribe and values and belief systems So let's let's first hear about your experiences coming in and what that was like Yeah, I I wasn't sure I was going to be able to make it because I spend most of my time in Dominican Republic right now And I was a bit nervous about international travel. They're changing the rules all the time. They're shutting down flights They're opening up flights. They're requiring tests. So I wasn't really sure But um, I got to know anthony through Uh, it was after his I think his presentation on pierce morgan show. Is that a year ago or two years ago? Uh, actually, it seems like it was only in january. Was it that recently? Yeah. Oh my god. It has been along 2020. Yeah But uh janis fiamengo did a um a file. We call them files the fiamengo file. It's a video dealing with um, how they Um tried to trap anthony That will make uh women great again thing So we were doing a defense of that And then we had anthony on to channel to talk about it and then I got a little rapport with anthony We did a thing about uh black lives matter And after that video he was really pleased with that video that interview with black lives matter issue Uh, he then asked me if I would present here So that's that's how that's that's all I know about uh make So so you segued in kind of nicely with the at least the interviews and everything else you had a personal review But it's it's I think it's also intimidating coming into an environment such as this particularly when it's three conventions simultaneously Yes, definitely And what was your experience as a speaker kind of moving through that environment? Um as a positive experience, I have to say I am not a natural speaker This is like uh, I'm a I have stage fright All my life when the first time I gave a lecture in public I was in grade 10 And I stood in front of the class uh like a deer in the headlights And I couldn't open my mouth. I couldn't move until a teacher had uh took pity on me and said I could sit down The next time was my defense thesis for my chemistry degree And I didn't sleep for three days I thought I started having heart palpitations and I went to the hospital and they checked me out. I'm all okay Then my my thesis advisor Gave me a kind of coached me through it all and gave me some techniques to manage it And I used his techniques for the following 10 years in my career in chemistry where I had to often give presentations to You know the authorities and the or the bosses in the business so for me, uh Public speaking is and I that's a that's a pretty deep fear for me So that fear to me is an indication that that's my direction of personal growth And I've taken uh, you know your fears kind of especially your rational fears. I think uh, that's if you face them and Wrestle with them try to get it under control. That's a great source of personal growth. So I don't know if I'm getting to your question Well, we're getting there actually I'm fascinated by this segue Uh, let's so let's let's say on say on this track of you you had fears and insecurities with public speaking But yet you and you your second time public speaking was you know in a very serious matter You're defending your thesis, right? Okay, and you go from that to there's gotta be an element where you were up here presenting now Right. Tell us about that transition because I think a lot of guys have similar type things I know that I'm always kind of nervous going in But if we face our fears, they they can become strengths rather than weaknesses Yeah, so tell us tell us about your personal journey from your doctoria or your your thesis Defense to today right I practiced a lot, you know, I had to practice because that was my job for 22 years in research and chemical industry So there was no choice. I either dealt with this or Didn't have a job, you know so Apart from that You I guess one of the decisions and it's part of the reason why I came to is I I think a lot about If I accept an opportunity or reject an opportunity in life I my decision comes down to at the end of my life Will I be will I regret more rejecting that opportunity or will I regret more accepting that opportunity? And I think in my experience anyways Most of the regrets that I have are opportunities that I didn't take So that that was probably the ultimate decision making process for me to come here that I don't I want to we're all going to come to the end of our life's front We all have to go through that but I think When that day comes in my own mind in my own Meditation, I hope it's peaceful I hope to be able to say, you know, I'm ready to go I did the best I could with the opportunities I had And so I want to be at peace with that. And so I try to make my decisions with that endpoint in mind That's fantastic Let's if you don't mind let's segue to your work with feminism's universities and how Provasive feminism is seeping through culture all the institutions that we have and how it's affecting masculinity Yeah, that that is an enormous topic and I think that's the defining topic of our generation of our age of this epoch Because feminism is global I mean and it hasn't left any element of culture untouched There's there's basically thomas barry is a thinker Hey, he was a just rather a passionate priest And I met him some years ago and went to one of his talks at the university of waralu And he identified four pillars of culture the education system the legal system industry And the religious systems there are four pillars that support a civilization And feminism went in the 1970s into the university systems and over the next about 20 30 years they they completely took over the education system in universities and there the university system feeds everything else in our culture, right? We accept university graduates as experts And we shouldn't today the universities are absolutely the worst place that to do research because you can't At the minute you try to do honest research, especially social research sociology psychology It's if you step even a millimeter outside of the narrative the accepted narrative you're going to lose your job Or you'd be severely punished or your your career will be destroyed So the the good work today is going on outside Of the university system the people here the people who are getting involved on their own time their own dime But these are the people who feel really passionately strongly The university systems they're they're politics. They're politicians. They're following a narrative. They're not doing anything new They're turning the crank. They're repeating feminist doctrine They're refining feminist doctrine to make it more powerful to more make it more damaging in culture You know, so I'm going on and on. Yeah. No, no, it's fantastic. You're doing a great job. They're in politics We have a feminist prime minister in canada They're in the legal system. We have uh legal schools teaching feminist juris jurisprudence today and a lot of legal schools If not all of them They're taking over the religions that the even the pope is becoming Feminist oriented this they're taking over industry With 1984 There was and it's an auspicious year But in 1984 they came out with the affirmative action, which was to preferentially hire and promote women Okay, so this is all the four pillars of society and this started back in 1970 For the entry into the university system Now I was in research at Dow Chemical in 1984 And just starting my career two years in okay, and I'm a I'm a young guy You know thinking I have I've been at the top of my class. I should be having a good career here, right? I'm pretty confident They had a meeting at every research department the vice president of dow chemical world came and this happened in every industry In every group and starting in 1984 and they gathered us together and they informed us that they were going to start Preferentially hiring and promoting women primarily women. I don't even think they mentioned minorities at that time It was mostly a focus on women And all the guys especially young guys like me were sitting there thinking Gee, I thought I had a career But the reality is you only have a career if there's no women applying for that job You only have a promotion. That was the essence of the message. I thought it would go away You know, I thought this is another corporate program They'll stick with it for six months to 12 months and then they'll drop it But it has gotten stronger and stronger and stronger and now it's incredible. It's it's just a religion that has gripped the world Now here's a clincher on that The vice president of dow chemical in that time was a woman in her fifties Who got to vice-presidentship was not an easy thing to do in a company like that a company of i don't know What is 50 or 100 000 employees? A very tough thing to do and she did it without any help Of affirmative action There was no need for affirmative action. There's never been a need for affirmative action That was the start where we shifted away from performance and merit To identity in industry in industry And it's in education. It's in politics Our prime minister In canada selected his cabinet based on gender Not on qualifications for the job Our health minister Is a x graphic designer No Sorry, no, not she's an x journalist zero experience in health okay, our What's the other one that we have there? There's another minister in a very prominent position. She's deputy prime minister One of them is the health minister and the other one's a deputy prime minister But they're both women the other one's a graphic designer Neither one of them have any experience a finance minister our finance minister Is the x journalist Zero understanding zero training in finances running the finances of a major country Because she's a woman and she's feminist That's remarkable I could go on but i'm gonna pass the baton here and honestly i'm i'm saving pat almost for last We're going to move from an incendiary topic to a particular even more incendiary We talk about feminism and as a religion taken over the world How about how is that the dating environment been affected? associated with the current events and I want you to understand that The man sitting to my right has recently through a google search of my understanding Now owns the word hypergamy That he has had more citations for that world's foremost expert on hypergamy. Thank you. So it's a new title holder I think publication is coming up more recently And i'd like to talk to just a little bit about your background in dating hypergamy Relationships and feminism and your viewpoint and on that that subject matter Yeah, I'll just give a real quick bio Got involved in the pickup space back in 2008 And spent about seven years or so marinating through the various iterations of that as it evolved Became a dating coach myself in 2015 Got married that same year. I work with guys in their dating lives and relationships. So Um wear a lot of hats I do a lot of tactical stuff But I also do a lot of depth work And of course, you know a Socrates you've been saying it's really difficult to Separate this increasingly difficult to separate what goes on In the sexual marketplace so to speak with these political movements I mean, I think that the only thing you can like we should just call feminism exactly what it is I mean, it's it's a communist It's in communist insurgency. It's part of a cultural revolution That's been going on in this country for a long time And I do think that, you know, I try to be nuanced on these issues and I I understand Certain parts of it in terms of maybe the evolution of women and some of their consciousness being raised perhaps Developing some individual agency. I talked about this at 22 convention But I mean, that's not what it actually is now and I think that we have to start to be very clear about The brand name of feminism And the fact that it is an incredibly unequal movement and its basic purpose is to is the destruction of The family and the destruction of society Fair enough You're also an expecting father.  Come on. You got Yeah, my wife's on our third trimester right now and We're we're looking forward to it looking forward to a, you know, a beautiful girl And and this is from a man who's coming from a pickup background I mean, he and I are both living the same glass house in that regard. So now I understand now Do you know the sex of the uh, the chum? Yes, it's it's going to be a girl. She'll be born around Christmas Isn't that fantastic now? Interestingly enough, there was some rumor.  I drive I think there are photos and and I hate to say it I may have borne witness to that actual event. It did On the far end of the spectrum, I know we talked about your passionate living How you live life, how you love, but you gave a really interesting 21 convention talk Regarding Marxism and socialism and the involvement of communism and how it's affected men Masculinity and how it's impacting our lives. Can you touch a little bit more on that? Yeah, so I started my talk with the facts about How men are doing today. We're not doing really well at all There's all this talk about helping women But the fact is that women are beating us in every regard They're making more money than us regardless of what they say They're taking their lives. They don't kill themselves like we do Our suicide rate is off the roof or you know using a lot of drugs or in prison fatherlessness and so Knowing that men are weak. We're suffering. We got to look at. Well, why what's going on? And so I gave various different reasons one of which ties in very closely to what we're talking about right now, which is A great brainwashing that has happened across the west and I reference Uri Benz Minov Who was a kgb defector who? defected and came to reveal What the ultimate plan was and to get into the universities to get into the Government to get into the media and to completely demoralize the culture Now I had to dig a little bit deeper that kind of interest me into who would do this and why and so I pointed out that this Calculated destruction of the culture Comes from hell it comes from satan, but ultimately on earth through his minions in this movement out of russia and The idea that marxism could take hold through political means Or bombs and bullets Just didn't prove to work economically. It just didn't prove to work the people were not Uniting and overthrowing the you know the the people in high places so two guys Antonio Gramsci and Lucas George Lucas. I mean, I'm just learning all this stuff. So They at the same time discovered that in order for marxism i.e. The communism to take fold they would need to get into the Hearts and minds of the people that demoralize them to show them and so my presentation and my research Dovetailed perfectly into what Steve was talking about and he took it And ran and showed how a new a new world order is ultimately the goal of this well destroy the west through marxism, which feminism is a daughter of Communism you could so to say ultimately in order to create a What he just calls a feminist world order and you could totally see it and it's very fascinating So I did a little research before I came into this Came into my talk in order to just find out why men are weak and you could see that the men's reaction to this particularly as it you know Pat Steadman is talking about in terms of dating and intersexual Dynamics Has created this phenomenon of the nice guy And so men are doing what they think they're supposed to do because the school teachers have told them the media has shown them That it's better for them to be weak It's better for them to be pushovers and it's not working because we're offering ourselves and we're in prison One last point that I want to make that was really what broke my heart was to discover that feminism which sound To most people in our world like some sort of a good thing a progressive thing ultimately is The agenda is to break down the family destroy the family It's the stated purpose of feminism and so In a world where men are weak because there's No fathers families are being destroyed. It really seems like feminism is the long arm of This movement to destroy our world I couldn't agree more now moving to it. It's a slightly different gear. I'm gonna jay. I'm gonna come to you We talk about weak men and you have a physical training background And what I like to talk about is a little bit about the video that you saw with Doug MacGuff and the training protocol I know about the big 10 and the hip protocol But can you talk to the guys about putting on mass and strength and what a hip protocol looks like And why it's effective associated with recovery training and the neurological responses to muscular growth Yeah, I mean just like a lot of other topics. I mean a lot of Topics and industries have been pretty much hacked and For the most part when it comes to exercise people have been just outright lied to and it's not really their fault It's just kind of like how the information age works There's a lot of information out there. The waters have been muddied and the fact of the matter is Most people are approaching exercise wrong The fact of the matter is it takes very little exercise Very little time involvement to pretty much manifest the ultimate physique your genetics are are going to allow And I discovered the actual physiology behind exercise through this convention through a video from dr. MacGuff Have been since applying the principles to myself and like I said I to help me become a published model help me put on You know loads of muscle mass and um, you know my mission is to to teach as many people as I can that they can do this As well And they can exercise and you should exercise if you want to be a fulfilled Accomplished man you want to be healthy you want to be strong you want to look good There's there's you know, that's not toxic. There's nothing wrong with wanting to look good and muscular and a lot of men just Either they're afraid or they feel they don't have the time or they don't know what to do And you know, that's what i'm here for i'm here to show you what to do and um You know that video helped change my life and helped me understand the the proper principles behind physical training and strength training and and putting on muscle mass And uh, that's what I do for a living now I own a couple of personal training studios and I do this for not only men.  I mean, it's you know, you could be a beautiful person But physically it's it's not attractive and I think women should also be working on themselves physically as well And uh, one of the biggest issues people think time is Time is getting in the way. They don't have enough time Um, but the research shows clearly that you know very little time investment could could work wonders for you physically and also mentally too and as elliott as elliott talked about um You know a lot of men are depressed and they're killing themselves and There's no denying that psychologically exercise has a huge benefit psychologically. You feel great not only when you improve yourself physically but There's a neurotransmitter Responses and up regulations and things like oxytocin and serotonin that are going to make you feel better over time naturally We've got a lot of men who feel bad about themselves. They're going to the doctor. They're getting put on an anti-depressant You know a lot of it could have to do with the hormone levels I mean men have been robbed of testosterone lately Mainly due to kind of the food the reading maybe their environment and lack of exercise stress You know, we can turn these things around we can make men stronger both physically and mentally and emotionally by implementing exercise and um finding a time efficient safe way to do it So that's what i'm here for and that's that's my mission in a nutshell You spoke earlier how you were already A male model physical physical model and that you needed to put on more muscle To to attain the professional viability that you desired What what was the transition like to not so much the physical training? But the mental aspect of what the difference between your former physical self to the the level that you you attain What what was the difference between the two for you personally? The difference was you know, I was in order to be marketable. I had it to be bigger be bigger more muscular I mean that is uh, that's what sells. Um, that is what's desirable. That's what's rare. That's what men want That's what men are after despite what toxic masculinity will tell you, you know Men do want to be big men do want to be strong And that's what I was after building a bigger more powerful more dominant broad physique Yeah, and how did that impact your life outside of the profession? tremendously, um Personally, I mean whether right or wrong I'm more respected. You know, I hear that, you know, a lot of people I talk to people in public will say rude things to them They will treat them differently Nobody ever says rude things to me. Nobody treats me poorly And whether right or wrong, that's the fact of the matter a bigger more powerful stronger healthy physique You're gonna you're gonna find things come to you easier in life You're gonna find that people treat you differently that people respect you more That's another reason why everybody should be exercising They should be trying to get as as big and strong and fit as healthy as they can because not only is your life gonna be Better between interactions with people you're gonna have a longer more fulfilling life with more energy So it impacted my life in a tremendous way not only being in magazines and being the whole published model thing But just the way it interacted with people changed tremendously and it made my life better Yeah, fantastic We've gone from elliott talking about the men being weak ideologically. We've talked about you With men being weak physically. I'd like to move this over to Steve in a second and talk about how men are weak genetically We talk not so much a a pure genetic element, but that we're weak in our understanding of Our manifestation of our particular genetic lineage and we may call that family And you have a terribly rich history that you are indoctrinating your family with and have I know been taught that and you've shared that repeatedly And I think it's absolutely commendable and I would love for these gentlemen to hear hear that I always like to tell everyone that listens to me no matter how we got here Some of us came above the boat Some of us came below the boat no matter how we got here Our ancestors regardless of what happened They always knew the name their name and they kept it and they defended it and they would die for it And they created sons who created other sons who created other sons who created your grandfather or your great grandfather Who created your father and who created you? And where it seems like we're at we're at this war now where people Don't want you to know your name They want you to be with they want you to be and see I I pride myself on who I am because I'm I'm a Williams It's like these gentlemen they are prideful in their names because they respect the father And we have gone away from that that's part of the problem that we're dealing right now Just because fought dad's not there doesn't mean you can't learn about dad Or go find dad and find the other half of the truth Sometimes because sometimes we get only one side of the story from mom If that or a grandmom or some type of female telling you that dad, you know, he just didn't care He didn't love you Maybe dad just got tired of mom's shit and said you know what I'm gone But it doesn't mean he doesn't love you But when it comes to your name and the importance of your name gentlemen I always want you to realize at the end of the day you got to learn who you are I I'm all about legacy and bloodline. I want to create something. Well, I have created something some things several things To carry my name on when I die That's that was my that was my goal to find a wife Because at that point I knew that I wanted to have sons. I wanted daughters. I wanted grandkids I wanted great grandkids if I'm lucky great great, but I know my name and and I think Even these gentlemen here Even though they don't talk about your name. They're giving you components that attach to your name They give they give you a sense of individuality that Each and every one of you are authentic. We are not the same.    There was someone somewhere way back then loved themselves enough to create Their sons and then the thing continued in steam road and now you're here And I just want to say this the only problem I have today is that we have we have evil people out there Telling you it's wrong to have kids. It's wrong to grow.  I don't know what But what they're saying is is that your name is not good enough And once you learn the importance of your name You will be guided in a way that you've never been guided before and that's just that's what that's my beacon And the last thing I want to say is what I loved about my name even when I was small My dad would always tell me man.  You see that hand? That's how I eat a hamburger That's how Williams does a son. You open that door.  It's just absolutely radiant So congratulations, and I've always held that in sincere regard So jack we're gonna we're gonna slide over to you again Without going religious I want to think of masculine Um spirituality but not from a religious standpoint much more of a primal element in the mysticism And where do you see today is man non religious spirituality being you know that that core richness Of a human connection with nature, uh, their own Manifestation of masculinity sexuality expression of creativity and you do a really good personal job of Manifesting both the brutal masculine aspects of the physical form But the craziest thing is the degree of art and poetry that you have And have expressed that's not necessarily so obvious. Can you talk a little bit about that to the gentleman today? About the art of poetry or Take it up. I mean it's one of the things I think it gets it's when we talk about really or spirituality It tends to always be religious based and I think you would be a prime example But not necessarily a religious individual but a spiritual individual But in a unique vein and particularly with your association with masculinity and mythology Yeah, I mean to me it's it's all the same. I I Started writing in the way of men and it was basically a lot of things off of evolutionary psychology I'm not pulling from a bible or whatever. I'm pulling from, uh, you know evolutionary psychology and like what if What have men always needed and what have they always cared about and what have they always done And one one of the reasons why my new book is called fire in the dark is When I talked about it In the way of men I talked about the perimeter And that's how where we get masculinity from because it's always been our job to protect the perimeter And our first the thing that makes us Different the way we've evolved, you know, we evolved our fists probably to hate each other You know in a certain way and uh We evolved some skills that are different from women to be stronger and so forth so that we could do this job of hunting and fighting and My idea and why the book is called fire in the dark is that uh, you know, we If you take a campfire and you say you have This is the myth that i'm writing is you have men that uh It left wherever they came from And they can't go back for whatever reason we don't know why and it doesn't matter Uh, but they're just wandering out into the world So they have no point of reference You know, there is no, you know, we're going home because there is no home uh When you create a fire somewhere like well, this is where we're gonna stay for the night because the sun's going down And you kind of recreate the sun by creating a fire And I I think that's the symbol of you know creation and the father and culture and and that's what you're trying to keep alive And so you create something and then you need to protect it And that's what the warrior does he protects, you know, everything that's important everything that's around the fire I mean you have your family around the fire, you know, whoever's there with you all your friends Everything you care about your language is there everything that matters is around that fire And then You know if you're gonna keep that camp alive you have to perpetuate it So i'm pulling all these myths actually from what I think is the most primal form You know this idea of like every time and you do that every time even if you're just recreationally camping You go out and we're going to create a fire and then that's your little world That's you that you started the world right there. That's your little world that you've created And so I think men have always cared about these three functions Because it's fundamental to our job and we've always done so I think it is primal And it's not stuck in any one religion or whatever and that is our spirituality because it comes from our function And it comes from our biology and so that's that's the way I look at that and then we talk about the Adding myth and adding art and so forth One thing that tanner and I really agree on and we nerd out about it. I'm like when I gave him the chapter of this book I'm like you're gonna like this part uh because Men today actually think that they hate art Most men if you ask them that like oh, I don't I don't like art And like art is for girls or like, you know poetry is for girls or Like they don't connect with it And the reason why they don't connect with it is because art doesn't like them And I think it's you have this uh Art if you think about ancient art ever all the examples that we have of great cultures and everything are They've statues of heroes And you know statues of greatness and these are the things that our culture cared about and men were invested in it They were creating the art and they were the ones who made it And they were the you know the poetry All the best old stories are in poetry like Homer and and so forth. I mean all that's it's tales of men doing epic things Men created all of this and there became a space like kind of like Romanticism where it became very individualistic and uh kind of this breakaway from authority and then it was informed by Marxism I think and so All the men who were against their father and they had a daddy issues kind of like I hate these rules and everything We're gonna tear down society started to become artists And so the the culture of the art world it becomes very about much about deconstruction Rather than construction because of deconstruction and tearing things apart and making things that are ugly And uh, you know just you know pushing boundaries and and you know challenging narratives and you know like changing the world and taking all that hierarchy away and That's why men don't respond to it because People are creating art that's against strength and courage and mastery on it. They're not celebrating the things that are important to us And so when men go to a museum, they're like that's not for me Or they re poetry and it's like about someone's feelings and they're saying how weak they feel and all this and then that's that's not for me I don't care about that But I think it's really important. I think when The artist is working with other men instead of against him They create a culture that raises men up And so I think that's really really important. I'm passionate about that and actually like let's look at What we can we do that celebrates Manhood and works with all the other works with the men who are warriors and works with the men who are leaders And what you know makes us passionate about that and care about it again because that's what really inspires men We look at movies. I know, uh, Steve like store, right? And you know the the comic those are our myths today. You're like we we Men connect with those and there's little boys and they're it's in our hearts And like that's what we want to do is become that guy and and you know if you go and try and lift a pr Or whatever you're you know, I listen to the Thor found truck when I do that You know like you plug into that thing because you want to be that magical guy And that that's so important to us And I think if we don't find a way to connect that to the kind of things that we're doing That's how you create longevity and create a new culture that it's exciting for men Super that secretary just want to say yeah, I am none. That's why we're here poetry See if people don't understand that they could play I love poetry. I tell people I love poetry But what people don't know is that you sing poetry every day when you turn your radio on Everything you hear in music is poetry. So he's absolutely right. It's poetry is everywhere It's not just writing roses or red violets or blue. That's I'll say, but you met your main person, right? Cool, we have about 11 minutes left Steve I'm gonna I'm gonna turn this one to you because I just want to hear a little bit more I know we talked about the pervasive nature of feminism in higher education academic research corporation Um, personally, I spoke at uh, patriarch about the concerns about The cultivation of our children going to educational centers particularly government-run schools and so forth And it's not necessarily in common to for today to find those school systems to be devoid of national pride To so for example the national symbol of a flag being removed from the classroom But other systems being brought in and replaced in it. So it's not uncommon to find elements of critical race theory being injected or promoted Black lives matter the degree of feminism those sort of things are openly displayed And i'm concerned about the social construct here Is that we turn our children's over with the understanding that we will have specialists come into teach our children to help cultivate our children That should reflect our community our community values and are essentially of our tribe of our group But we've there's been a broach of that On the last 20 years in which we're sending our children to Education systems that no longer have specialists that have our interests at stake They don't reflect our values and in turn we are turning our children over To be raised and developed by others that don't have our interests and families interests at stake Can you talk a little bit about that? I'll try One thing that came to mind as you were talking there there was a Through this pandemic. They've been Prohibiting kids from going to school. I think in most jurisdictions And they've been having creating these online classrooms and some maybe you guys have heard about this but some somebody found a private tweets or private communications from teachers saying they were concerned That the parents were Monitoring their children and they were saying this is a bad thing. We have to prevent Parents from monitoring their children while they're at the online classroom Because they didn't want the parents to know what they were teaching the kids They didn't even want them to know They're right there is their admission that they don't have your kids interest at heart. They openly admit it when they say Parents monitoring what we teach your kids is a problem You know, they want to get these ideas into the kids without your parents knowing about it You know and that that to me speaks volumes And it's you mentioned the black lives matter getting into the school system Yeah, they're they're teaching all kinds of these things as if it's truthfulness and black lives matter I've I did a video on this and ansony um, I think ansony was Sorry No, the video I did and I think ansony and I talked about this on a live stream once So the video I did was get to know black lives matter and Maybe you guys know this stuff. I never sure how much people are familiar with but black lives matter is not a black group It's a feminist group through and through and they purge this stuff off their website in the last few weeks I think they're feminist content So that is and and they've in spite of that in spite of that in spite of their lies They got that authorized to be taught in the education system They have the grade schools. They have a curriculum and the schools as far as I know they're adopting this And that's just one of it the 1619 project its lies And the lies are being taught in schools Feminism, I highly encourage you to take a look at my video the birth of feminism And I start in roman times and we go up to 1848 The primary claim of feminism at the declaration of sentiments in the seneca falls convention of 1848 Their primary purpose there was to establish Permanently the idea that women were oppressed on all sides by men throughout history They were not even concerned about the vote Most people are in this impression that big feminist movement started up because women didn't have the vote men had the vote look men Didn't have the vote either Men generally in the world got the vote maybe a decade or less Before women did and only because they died by the millions in in the wars And the and the governments that be that of the time Felt that they could not justify not giving men the vote who had gone off and died to protect the very country They couldn't have a say in Women got the vote for free And today in the u.s. You guys probably know this Men still do not have universal suffrage the universal franchise You have to sign up for selective service to be allowed to vote women do not Only women in the u.s. Have the universal right to vote Okay, men do not But up to 1848 the the only reason the the right to vote was put in there is because A guy named frederick douglas Objected as a black man and get this Okay, I may I hope i'm not taken up too much time here because they get me in a passion here 1840 there was an anti abolition convention And elizabeth stanton newly married went to that convention But was not allowed to sit in the in the prestige seating this pissed her off The she was not allowed to sit in a in a The prestige seating had an abolition conference that she had a passion about abolitionist. Okay That was why she created the 1848 convention Not because she wanted the vote. She was pissed off that she was insulted at the 1840 1840 Abolition movement, so she created her own conference where she could be front and center Okay, and get this it gets worse Uh the whole movement people with uh with suffrage and women's rights and black rights They uh, they were all part of the same group. They communicated with each other So it was a black man who got the right to vote put in the declaration of sentiments as a concern The white women were not concerned with the right to vote and the reason is Women have always influenced government through their brothers and fathers It's called the petticoat parliament. You're probably familiar with the term So women always felt that they didn't need the vote because they ran the men Okay, imagine a guy. He's a lead politician. He may be president He goes into parliament or he goes into the white house He does something in law in public that his life doesn't like Now he goes home and every day he goes into bed and his wife pesters him. He didn't like what he did What is he going to do? in office Is he going to continue pissing off his wife? No, and all his wife's friends and all their social gatherings and all the women beating him up and harassing his friends No, that's the petticoat parliament Women were not concerned about the right to vote because they already influenced government before they had the right to vote But they refused I'm going to stop there because There's a lot more to this your gentleman. I was going to have to stop because we're literally about three minutes Let's let's go around the hornet on the panel with you guys Last 30 seconds thought what would you what would you leave the audience with and what will continue in order along the panel? That you know, we're having all these conversations about feminism It really has been a big part of the the conversation this week and I don't want anybody to take our Position our stance or even just the information that's exposing what's going on as a complaint This is not we're not coming from a position of weakness here. It's a position of We need to see this needs to be exposed We need to see it for what it really is because there is a tendency for people who are not Schooled or aware of the things that we're talking about to say well What's the big deal? Why are you whining? Why don't you just do something about it in your life? Well, the whole idea is that we've been brainwashed We're dead asleep. Our eyes are closed. People just don't know and so this is a position of Strength, this is the position of wake up. This is the position of we've got to do something about this Otherwise, we're all going to suffer feminism is not good for women at all It's about hatred towards the family and women suffer when their children suffer because the family is a sacred unit and so ultimately this is for everyone to Have a better future and for our families to have a better future Jack you're up. Yep. Um, I'll just bank off of that and say one of the things that I've noticed is that We feminism always talks about making you know women have adding value to them and Men used to look at a woman and say I want a wife who's going to help me make a family and The funny thing is that women have devalued themselves and now they're just sex objects if they're not If they're not such kind of partner for them, they're just making them pure sex objects So that's something that you rarely hear is that you've made yourself objectified because you you had a role before And you know, but like Elliott said, this is about making men better It's just important to understand the problems that come with feminism because they're all woven into the culture And so but the real focus to think of this conference it always has been Uh to make men stronger to make them better at everything aspect of life Europe You know, obviously, um As ellie said and many other these people on this panel have said is uh men are weak now All right We need men to become stronger both physically emotionally Psychologically and of course physically. So in my area of expertise I'm gonna recommend don't ignore your body Don't ignore your health Because when the shit hits the fan, we need strong men and we need them strong physically as well So keep that in mind take your health Take your strength seriously because it's gonna it's gonna all come together when you need it So that's what I'd like to add to it yeah my 21 convention speech this year was on how to heal yourself as a man And I think that especially, you know, everything being shut down We've had a very very unique and important period for guys to do the inner work And this is important stuff for your dating and relationships. It's important for your own life, but to Bring it into the context of this conversation It's important because once you have this psychological self-awareness Once you sort of heal your trauma You become immune to psychological operations Like feminism and the problem with a lot of women today and and men of course too Is that they've been broken down over and over again by demoralization campaigns And they've been highly traumatized and so then they run these psychological operations which feed on that You know, if you go out date today with women I mean The amount of dissonance that they have Is enormous because they don't even know what they want. They have shame around what they want I have tons of guys they're dating a girl everything's fine And then she'll start to bring up trump and politics and just have like a meltdown And the point here is that the deep work is important because if we're going to be You know warriors in this and we have a world to fight for and then we have a world to rebuild You guys got to get your internal shit figured out and this is the best time to do it Steve you got 30 seconds 30 seconds. Oh my god I'm going to add one point to my last point because I feel it's important feminists stole the oppression narrative from slavery From the abolitionists of 1840.  They literally did Women have never been oppressed through old history. They were protected and provided for the entire feminist narrative is a lie The 1840 conference on abolition is significant because that's where they got the idea That's a little bit stand got the idea to define women as oppressed on all sides through all history by men. It's a lie They stole that legitimate idea the real oppression that occurred in much of the world was the Institution of slavery and in the u.s. That was of course against black people So I'm going to leave it at that. That's a lie. Last fight The end is strong on that one dropped a bomb now another bomb dropper is just on your right my good friend, steve williams I I will give you a full 30 seconds as well. I just give me 29 I'm going to give you 20 I want you to see this panel of men. Okay. Look at this panel of men up here Understand this We are not going to be here forever this whole panel of men And what the 21 summit is all about is passing the baton to you Preparing you men out there not only to navigate your lives as men But the next door over there the patriarch learning how to become men Everyone here is a bona fide man in his own way in his own style But being together as independence coming here in this summit We are here to pass the baton pass information Make you better men and it is up to you because we're not going to be here forever So we're holding you guys accountable. Take the baton Run with it. So when you're up on this stage and you're talking to whoever's out there Then you can pass the baton and I guess in the summit of what the uh, the red men group summit what 48 55 So around there. Yeah, we're just going on forever.  He's gonna be forever.  All right with that. We're gonna wrap it up. Thank you very much for joining this red man group panel I'm socrates coming live from the 21 summit 2020 orlando florida. Thank you for joining