Welcome back to the perfected health podcast. This is episode seven with Mike aka heal your gut guy today We are going to talk about the gut microbiome Mike. Can you let them know a little bit about what you do? Hi, everybody. Um My name is Mike to heal your gut guy and I have a YouTube channel where I show people how to heal their gut 100% naturally without drugs whether you're dealing with IVS Crohn's colitis candida sebo Anything gut related. I want to help you guys out. I suffered from really bad Crohn's and and Candida couldn't tolerate You know, I strive to eat a Weston a price diet And I couldn't eat those things like sourdough bread and stuff like that And I just kept at it until I could bring those foods back into my diet And you know, I was on a carnivore type diet for a long time But um, yeah, that's that's essentially what I what I've done I've bought in Candida from a lab and like tested it at home like with different anti fungals So like I'm a real nerd about this stuff and Yeah, so yeah, that's that's a little about me So for those of you who are unfamiliar with the Weston price-style diet He was a dentist who went around in the early 1900s Exploring various indigenous groups and the premise for these diets is just very very high quality heirloom grains wild plants quality animal foods But just to give people some context Everyone always asks, you know, what's the gut microbiome people are always referring to foods as being good for your gut Why is this so important and is the general idea about the gut microbiome misunderstood? Yeah, the gut microbiome is kind of like overwhelming when you think about it You know, you have like all these different millions of species of Nemo toads and fungi and bacteria, you know, like how are you supposed to like met? You can't even even if you had like a list of everything of the millions of things that are gonna be in your gut Like how would you manage that? It's like it's like impossible. So I do my best to To try to You know, look at what our ancestors did, you know, how does mother I always when I have like these huge Daunting questions like this. I always look to mother nature. You know, how does how do most mammals? Establish their gut microbiome. They they do it with bra dairy, you know with with mother's milk and and so, yeah, it's and It's really interesting because There's this like for example candida is just labeled this it's a bad guy It's it's a little bit more. It's it's a dimorphic fungus Which means it can transform between a single celled fungus, which is a yeast and then a multicellular organism of fungus So candida is both a a good and a bad guy So it gets out of control when it morse Into its fungal form and even even bacteria like lactobacillus can be pathogenic. So it's It's more about creating a good environment and your gut an environment that The good guys love and the bad guys literally cannot exist in because it's you know, it's Kind of like Star Wars like the light in the dark side like you you create like This environment where the good guys thrive and the bad guys literally cannot exist or that they change their behavior to be Become become good. It's like tuberculosis E. Coli. They all behave the same way. They all Change their behavior depending on their environment. So the first thing you have to do is get the environment under control So our ancestors had a very specific gut microbiome that was created based on Essentially their native environment, you know, they're their parents were eating specific foods that had certain nutrients certain bacterial contents They received their mother's milk that had a certain bacteria profile certain new nutrient content depending on their environment And now we are in an unnatural environment that's creating an unnatural microbiome that is not conducive to human health So we basically have to say okay, how to how do we get our gut microbiomes to this ancestral to this? Indigenous state of health speaking of candida.  So The morphology and how these bacteria can change It gets so complicated and interesting especially considering, you know, if you have you can try to Specify what type of bacteria is, you know, is it bifidum? Is it lactobacillus? Is it strep? Is it staff? But even under each of those bacterial categories, you have thousands and thousands of different types of strains And they all behave differently and it just gets so overwhelmingly complicated that You really can't address it outside of a natural context because when you do take one of these natural foods like raw milk Like a fermented animal product They have this native this indigenous bacteria profile almost naturally And most people don't have this healthy gut microbiome And before we actually address how to heal these gut issues I mean, obviously some people know they have gut issues, but are there any things that aren't as obvious? So There's what okay, so that's funny that you use the word obvious. So there's Something it's very obvious, but it's like no no one Acknowledges it So we're all trying to heal or cure our guts and we don't really you know, we're in such a hurry We don't really stop to think What those words actually mean? So the word Heal has Germanic origins and it means to make whole again. So we need to Like how do we make our gut whole again, you know eat the nutrients that our guts may have so our body can do that What is the word cure means it means to take care of it has Latin origins from up cuare to take care of So we need to take care of our gut and when you look at IBS Crohn's colitis Literally, it's like just your doctor telling you you have an inflamed gut And it's like if you get punched in the nose and your doctor comes up to you and he says you have nose the tightest It's like you just have an inflamed nose I mean you have it Inflammation is your body's response to injury. So if something is inflamed It's not the inflammation causing the issues. It's the injury causing the issues. So I like I don't even like to call gut disease gut disease. I hate I hate the terms colitis and IBS It's literally just an injured gut and you're doing something to injure your gut And infection is a big part of that But so the root cause of all gut disease all all gut like pain if you have gut pain Why does a why does any body part experience pain? It doesn't it's injury. It's the only the only thing that can cause pain is some sort of injury. So I've outlined I found like 15 16 different ways someone could injure injure their gut and you and you can do this with like water You can injure your gut with even even me even with the easiest to digest foods like me. You can injure your gut So people are fixated on healing their gut, but they haven't even identified the underlying issue What actually caused the damage in the first place? And and this could be something like, you know a mineral imbalance heavy metal toxicity Those are things that aren't usually as common. It could be you know an underlying moderate inflammatory food. They're consuming so A lot of what I speak about a lot of what I focus on is based around the carnivore. So We do want to talk about how to heal your gut specifically on carnivore and and then kind of how people can branch out to other foods and really give people some context and understanding of How far you can push the boundaries of what food you're able to consume Once you actually hear your gut once you actually have that healthy gut microbiome Yeah, so I think it's nice to first kind of have like a goal in mind and I think your goal should be to strive towards That western a price dietary principles and and literally they ate food They ate the most nutrient dense foods Uh possible and and easy to digest format. They deactivated plant toxins And you know, they ate organ meats and you know, there's we can get we could talk about that forever But that's like they ate like normal foods. They were they're just prepared differently and they were grown on nutrient dense soils But um, yeah starting off with The carnivore diet it's it's a So I really really focus on digestibility And when you look at carnivore animals They just have they have a lot simpler digestive systems than than herbivore animals. And if you look at like chickens are Pretty carnivorous, but they eat a lot of plant foods and if you go look at their digestive system You'll see the hardware For them to to digest plants And so we're like a little bit more complex than like if you compare us to a dog or a cat our colon is slightly bigger But nowhere near the size of a monkey and but you look at different monkeys I mean all monkeys are species of monkeys are different. There's somes that eat lots of bugs and stuff So but when we look at meat, um You know, there's a spectrum of Digestibility, I mean, I'm sure we've all had a well-done burger And it sits in your stomach like a stone like that is not easy to digest So there's there's So here's a question for you guys.  So frank's biceps are harder than mine. So like if we had so if if we were to serve Frank's bicep on a plate his his biceps would be tougher than mine because It's you know, the the muscle fibers are hard a fish is in a weightless environment So certain cuts of meat on the fish are going to be very very tender and easy to digest And that's that's why people eat a lot of a lot of fish raw and they don't eat A lot of these huge herbivores raw and in chickens easier to digest be just because you know You can kill a chicken either right than in there Just because they're not carrying around a ton of weight Um, this makes a lot of sense and this is something that people overlook I think this Ties into the minimum profile of the food and the nutrient profile and how that changes based on How old the animal is how big the animal is what it's been eating Is probably what actually affects this digestion But when you do look at the human digestive system in the context of that very simplistic digestibility Every single thing humans have done to their food In any single preparation is to make the food easier to digest You know, whether you're fermenting wheat to make sourdough bread You're cooking meat to break it down any fermentation and any preferred foods like sugar honey glucose fructose fruit stuff That's very easily absorbed You're basically looking at what is the simplest input to the human digestive system That gives me the most amount of nutrients the most amount of calories and an example would be I mean someone on a vegan diet consuming these very fibrous tough to digest plant foods that other ruminants are better equipped for That's the contrast human digestive system Simple basically Ideally everything is baby food You know herbivore ruminant digestive system very complex. You could essentially eat a piece of wood almost That's that's a little dramatic, but that's a pretty good analogy I mean, it's it's really cool looking at different digestive systems. Like you can look at Bugs and you know terminites. They actually eat woods. It's It's it's really cool. So a lot of people talk about There's this big debate right now in the carnivore community community whether raw meat or cooked meat is easier to digest And it and it really depends on what it is sometimes cooked to me is easier to digest Sometimes raw meat is easier to digest You know and a lot of people are eating these high meats and Power to you if you can eat them, but I can't eat them. I like they're just I But we have a A more palatable way to do that and it's called Keering and fermenting meats, you know things like Genoa salami and And just raw cheeses in the supermarket. Yeah, exactly. There's um When we look at Weston a prices Weston a prices book is awesome and we have to keep in mind it was written in the 1930s And there was a lot of things that didn't exist The refrigerator didn't exist and so there's problem when he's talking about meat. He's probably Like you have to realize back then curing meat salting meat and hanging meat in your kitchen and doing all that stuff That was normal. So he probably didn't even mention it. There was there was no refrigerators back then it was like this totally like the culture of Like they were eating a ton of their meats And this fermented broken down process. It's it's it's so much easier to digest. I mean they were doing they were cooking And you know doing this curing process. But one thing I want to say about cooking is It's what makes meat hard to digest that well that well done steak it's it's when you boil the water out of The the chemistry the the molecules of the meat.  So it's all about getting it You know breaking breaking down those proteins and having your body do as less less work as possible So that's the caloric input that is easier to digest, you know when we When we ferment the food when we break it down when we cook it in a certain way Now what about you know the the bacteria profile that's conducive to those foods What role does that play in in the raw versus the fermented versus the cooked foods? um I mean it's pretty interesting when you when you we like talk about meat and the cut microbiome because it's it's um You know bacteria really doesn't flourish In the presence of me if it needs starch it needs glucose and each and each sugar for their populations to explode um That that's something I don't understand too much. It'd be really interesting to look at like a dog or a cat's cut microbiome You know just like the populations or maybe they're you know, they're totally different and animals that eat a lot of starch Is it I guess this would explain why when you take an indigenous group like the first nation alaskans They used to eat predominantly meat as a base of their diet But they consumed around half a pound to a quarter of a pound of fermented rotten meat every day to get that bacteria But when we look at other indigenous groups that didn't consume as much fermented meat They seem to have more carbohydrates present in the diet Probably to replicate that because they're they're feeding the bacteria instead of actually consuming the bacteria possibly Well, yeah, that's that's that's really interesting that then that's some that's a question I've wrestled with quite a bit. So when we look at less than a price's work Pretty much everyone, but the eskimos had had some sort of starch whether it was some sort of tuber some sort of grain where they're in the tropics eating tubers and fruits and then you get to like even the um The plains Indians they were they were eating tubers and and trading for corn and stuff like that Then you get up north and the only sugar source and I'm aware of is glycogen From the fat and I haven't I guess you could ferment with that like Your the bacteria could live off of that and then blood Those are your two sugar sources up from a freshly killed animal Yeah Yes, and and it's the blubber from sea mammals They they store glycogen in their fat so that they can stay under water for long This is interesting because you have the glycolytic enzymes the fat hydrolyzing enzymes and the proteolytic enzymes and Meat that actually start breaking down that glycogen once the animal dies It's into oh, so you see you gotta eat it really fast Yeah, so so once once that meat starts fermenting I would I would guess You know after about 24 to 48 hours of that animal being slaughtered the meat Loses its glycogen content. No, if you did kill Yeah, if you did kill a freshly, you know, you have a fresh mammal a fresh seal and you eat that liver There's going to be glycogen But you know there were periods of probably weeks to months where they didn't slaughter a fresh animal for sure Well, I well this I just thought of this just now when So when they were eating When they were eating these animals they also ate Whatever was in their guts They did and that's that's that's a I mean, what's a better probiotic than that you're eating You know, there's bacteria eating the seaweed or whatever is in their gut or the caribou's eating the moss and the back And they're eating that that's like that's like kimchi But your fermentation jar is like the guts of yeah, I'm curious why I'm curious why that isn't brought up more often because You know when they kill those ruminant animals or that seal they were actually dipping The contents of their gut and like fat and they were eating it as part of their meals Yeah That's something that yeah And I think they always ate because they needed they needed plant foods because there was literally nothing up there So that they needed For whatever reason, I mean and I think they really Made a point. I think you've read the the guys Ferguson's book. Who's it? Who's up in the north? Have you read his book? William or stephenson? Yeah, yeah, and I haven't read that so I'd be interested to see What he if he if there's anything about that in there They were eating a lot of rotten meat a lot of fermented meat and and the only speculation that we really have for certain is that in order to Repopulate their gut microbiomes in that carnivorous arctic temperature They were consuming large amounts of fermented meat every single day So it's safe to say yeah that if you decide to follow a carnivore diet If you want to be in good health You have to essentially eat rotten meat because there's there's never been a society of people that has subsisted off of meat Without the presence of carbohydrates or without the presence of rotten meat And that's why I don't really think You know this carnivore diet long term without proper food ratios proper food preparation Is something that people should be doing I I totally agree with you. It's um like for me. I did specific carbohydrate diet gaps diet And you know I felt great, you know when you first on that diet the first couple weeks You're like i'm never eating carbs again, you know And then a year later two years later. I mean You see a piece of bread and you just like black out and there's like crumbs all over your face I mean it's I mean I I You know I I look at western a prices work as kind of like my my guidelines and they were eating starch with Everything I mean starch was a huge part of their meals depending on where they were so um, but I do use A lot of carnivore principles like a low sugar diet when I when I go to heal the gut because I Want to keep the sugar low So the bacteria populations are are low and they don't have a lot of food and their defenses are down And when and when they don't have food when they when they don't have sugar. They're super weak. They're they're Like so for example say you put oregano oil on Fed candida it might live Because it has resources you you put oregano oil on candida that's been starved for a week Or for months it's it's not going to have it's it's probably going to die because it's it's it's super weak It's on its last leg And it just makes it that much easier to bring in you know probiotics when you're bringing probiotics So so we have that general kind of summary and ideas pinpointed around the carnivore diet So let's say we do have a gut issue. We need to fix things. What would you say? The steps of the protocol are obviously you want to remove any potentially negative pathogenic bacteria You want to address the underlying issues you want to let that gut heal You know with the proper nutrients and then what you want to replenish with the beneficial flora But this is a lot easier said than done Yeah, so I Like our protocol is kind of broken down into three phases the first phase You're really just trying like the the guts on fire. It's freaking out. It's inflamed and that's because you're injuring it So it's it's identifying those sources of injury and and stopping it as much as you can whether it's, you know Eating whole grains or or something, you know eating vegetable oils, you know those sorts of things and once it's under control you can start sealing the gut whether it's with Meat stock and just eating super easy to digest foods And then from that point when once you're feeling good because what I see a lot of people do is their gut will still be all crazy And super hurt and bleeding and stuff like that and then they go right they jump right into infection fighting Which is not what you want to do Because all those once you kill those guys they're going to go those toxins are going to go in your bloodstream and it's going to suck So it's you know you stop injuring your gut You seal your gut Yeah, you disinfect your gut And then you kind of disinfect and reculture At the same time and then after that it's kind of that's when I kind of like to think of it like as a broken leg once you get your broken leg out of a cast You're not like all right.  So it's a little bit You just have to understand the digestibility of the food. It's like this maybe it's something hard to digest That's like jumping up and down with a broken leg versus Having your leg in a cast or being in a wheelchair. That's that's the equivalent of fasting Yeah, there's clearly a lot of there's a lot of mistakes that can be made across every one of these steps You know, if you're in a position where you're still maybe cheating on your diet once or twice a week Still eating foods that you shouldn't have you're never going to potentially remove the inflammatory aspects from your diet And let's let's say you are that person that can stick to a strict carnivore diet You know for a period of weeks to months or whatever it is Some people go crazy with the protocol and they damage their gut even further They're messing around with too many supplements too many antimicrobials doing too many negative things And then when you do go to repopulate your gut people aren't repopulating with the right Foods the quality foods and and then any at any point during this phase It's very easy for people to relapse into that initial diet that was causing them issues in the first place I think a large percentage of people do get stuck in this vicious cycle of You know not taking a step back not looking at what you're doing not really seeing how your body responds to things and Understanding what needs to be done every step of the way It's well it so I was always Eating you know since I read weston a prices book.  Yeah Oh, it's it's like amazing if he put like a chunk of steak in his in his stomach his stomach would like freak out and be like Oh, yeah, I can't like I can't do this But if you put ground beef into his stomach then all the stomach stomach would just be like oh, okay I can handle this and so it's It's and you it's it's kind of like the sixth sense you develop it's like you know I like if I eat a piece of well-done meat like I feel it in seconds. This is like Like it just feels like a rock So yeah, it's It's it's really important to eat those grass fed, you know 100 grass fed meats I'm you can eat the best food in the world, but if you're not aware of what You're doing like if you're not always asking yourself What did I do to injure my gut and you're going to go in circles forever because that that's what I was doing for Two or three years and it wasn't until I understood like what is injuring my gut And it's usually because I was eating too much or not chewing my food Like that's like that sounds silly But that that's what it was for for a lot of these things Yeah, this opens up the can of worms that is all of the modern issues with our food supply right now You know if someone started a meat-based diet or just a low inflammatory diet, but they're still consuming You know grain fed meat that has agrochemicals Atrazine, you know farm raised fish that has various pollutants in it You know your body might just not be able to deal with you know what you're ingesting from an antioxidant perspective Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.  It's it's That that's just how The universe is I like it and Yeah, where does fasting play into this if I mean obviously fasting can be a bad thing fast can can be a good thing depending on What situation you're in and what your issue is? Yeah, so fasting is the Ultimate way to rest your gut You know, it's absolutely doing like so if you have like a broken leg It's being in a cast and it being in a wheelchair. But you know, we have to use our our gut so You know fasting allows it to completely rest But with a lot of people with gut diseases, they're already super malnourished And so doing like a week water fast, you know, isn't ideal. So we kind of have people Do um like intermittent fasting, you know, where they stop eating after eight o'clock or something like that so it's You know, it's it's a way to let your gut rest and we see it in religions Like they usually have one fasting holiday and it's just You need to give your gut a rest. I mean we put it under so much stress. I mean it's it's amazing That it's not more beat up than it already is so it's fasting is just a way To rest your gut and doing those long term fast. It's it's a way to rest your metabolism because And when I say metabolism the word metabolism me, it's it's the chemical the rate of chemical change in your body. So there's so So say for example, I'm healing right now And you know, it could be going like this fast When I have when there's food in my stomach and I'm digesting food And which is super laborious and taxing for your body even if you're digesting good food Um, but if I'm fasting now my metabolic healing it's going to be much faster It's it's all it's you know, it's matter cannot be created or destroyed it's this Con you know conserving energy and being very energy efficient You know with with your bodily resources That's it's much like a business So we have an idea of what needs to be done, but how does someone do this practically? Obviously for that first step, it's a matter of you know, removing the potential inflammatory foods We want to make sure the nutrient density in the diet is adequate so this means I mean literally Unfortunately a carnivore diet is the baseline almost if you're if you're not consuming dairy if you're not consuming eggs You remove potential allergens if the only foods you're consuming are you know wild caught fatty fish high quality shellfish pasture-raised meats That type of stuff There's really no Negative in the diet that should potentially be inflaming the gut um, the only the only way that those foods could inflame the gut is if um They're cooked like super well done If they're not chewed properly or if the person ate too much and and I like I I tell people when they're first beginning like don't eat more than a cup of food like just You have a broken leg. You can't even you can't even tiptoe around like we have to be like very Reserved and very careful like you can eat more later when your gut is healed, but it's it's broken so Even with even with the high quality meats. I mean it's you know, like if you Like beef is fine, but you just be aware beef is Harder to digest than salmon so, you know Do the math see see see where your breaking point is what's your threshold? That that's that's what I try to get people to start thinking about because Most times like people will eat beef and they react to it and then they're like, oh my god I'm allergic to beef. It's just like You you can't be allergic to meat because it doesn't make any sense Yeah, so if you have that high quality food and you keep the food volume in mind as well as Especially the cooking temperature and how you're chewing the food Theoretically someone should be able to get to the point where they're able to then address the other issues You know, do they need to remove pathogenic bacteria? Do they need to repopulate their gut with certain? You know certain probiotics now this anti-microbial protocol is something that Is way too complex to really go into but can you just give people an idea of You know what you're actually doing what some of the common substances are that are used to and and what the typical period of time Of using these anti-microbials is required So I remember a while a while back. Yeah, you were talking about raw honey And and raw dairy and how that that feeds candida And but they're but they also are rumored to have anti-microbial pop properties And so this is something I investigated. I I I bought candida. So my test was is I had Candida and I put it like on a plate and I put bread And I put like a big black mold of candida on there and then I soaked the bread and yogurt or raw milk different things and candida took over every single time I mean unless it was 100 honey You know it was like super dense honey, but I had I had 75 honey and 25 water and candida is like thanks for the sugar um, yeah, I did 10 hour yogurt 24 hour fermented yogurt. I did kefir and and candida wins every single time um, we're all milk Products do they do fight infection, but I I like to think of those as a reculturing tool Which which is really important for warding off infection, but it's not a good tool for like actually killing infection It's it's it's more better to use plant chemicals herbs herbs and stuff like that. Um, and the way I like to I like the word this is um Plants have been battling that bad bacteria and fungi since the dawn of time. And so they they make these chemicals to fight them Um, but you also have salts. Um, you have acidity. I I have I have six natural disinfectants, um herbs salts acidity activated charcoal and clay activated charcoal is like It's like magic. I've I've seen lab studies where they run Um, infected blood like candida blood through activated charcoal filters You know pull out the candida and leave behind red blood cells like it doesn't make any sense Like it's the coolest. It's really cool. Um, and then iodine Um, and then raw dairy, but raw dairy should be used more as a reculturing tool um Yeah, it it it just It that's that that's and those things those six things that I just listed are are kind of in line with building that environment where The the bad guys can't exist because candida in its yeast form It lives in an acidic environment, which is what our gut should be should be like around a four like four um And and if you like leave if if you leave candida alone with like a high population of candida And you leave it in an acidic environment. They start joining hands and they'll they'll change they they will change the ph They'll start consuming food and building a ph They'll start raising the ph of their environment and then and then go full fungal I it's really cool. Like when you start looking at how these how these guys behave Yeah, well people have to understand it's like if you're trying to put raw milk or honey And in a candida infected gut, it's like throwing a lighter in the ocean It yeah, yeah, it's it's it can it's technically it should be countering it But in regards to the actual volume There if there's any potential potential positive benefit in whatever you're consuming to the candida It will simply overtake the negative benefit and use that positive benefit So even if honey exhibits an antimicrobial property, they're still sugar in the honey Even if raw milk they will eat the sugar. Yeah, it's um Yeah, and and so we so we use a And it's impossible to starve candida You can starve it and weaken it.  I give it a piece of bread and it's back to life That that's just what microorganisms do. They all do that um So we know to have those those six things that can be used to Reduce the power of these microbes But there are also probiotic microbes that do counter Certain organisms like I know there's saccharomyces bulardi, which is known for inhibiting activity of candida cells yeah, so I'm I'm kind of like a video game nerd So I kind of like think of this like I'm playing like starcraft or warcraft And like in in the gut and so what I like to do is I like to bomb the bad guys and then I send in my troops So it's just I mean you can send in your troops and do it at the same time, but I mean there's I mean just like candida has its biofilms up. They've occupied the whole area. You really have to You know weaken them with starving them cutting the supply lines and then just throwing a light Like you can literally kill them in two seconds if you get a wreck in a while to them like Like if you're cleaning mold on your kitchen counter like you put bleach on it. It's dead right right then and there You don't want to do that in your gut, but um, you know if you get That the you know the herbs to the right location And and that's another thing because some people will take herbs on an empty stomach And it just gets it just gets those chemicals get absorbed in your stomach and it goes into your bloodstream Which if you're fighting like lime or something that's great, but you want to take a lot of these things with food and then if your poop comes out smelling like a regular oil, you know, yeah You hit everything so um, yeah, that's I try to I try to get people to think Like logically about it and like not over complicate it and and it's good to have like Because there's like a lot of things like I'm just like I don't know if I could ever answer that question It's like too complicated, but I try to find like all these Facts to just kind of coming up with a plan around Around those facts that I know I like I know is a fact So we're mindful of food quality. We're mindful of preparation how we're consuming the food How we're chewing and all of those things we we know how to Potentially remove any pathogenic negative bacteria. Of course you guys can google there's something that's called the Integrative SIBO conference. If you look at the 2017 or 2018 notes There's tons and tons and tons of antimicrobial protocols from various doctors that you guys can look into And and this includes those antimicrobials, whether it's berberine or reginal oil There's too many to list I could probably list two dozen right now, you know, you have iodine you can do salt flushes There there's so many MCT oil. There's just far too many things to list We can't really go into that here, but now you're at the point. Okay. You've been you know, you remove the inflammation The pathogenic factor is somewhat weak What is the safest most consistent way to repopulate the gut microbiome? I'm guessing it's like a proper culture of kefir or yogurt or something like that Yeah, it's it's interesting.  I couldn't I couldn't find an answer for that but birds. How do they do it?   And if you think about it You know milk isn't far off from I know milk It's a lot more tastier than poop, but it's it's kind of like It's it's all from the same force. It's from it's it's from the gut bacteria That's one way to put it bacteria. They're both coming out of a cow, right?  So they just they adapt to those foods now.  I mean, I think They're depending on what you get there see if you can be up there with um I don't know things like yogurt and stuff like that You can do fermented porges. Those are huge in africa and those are going to have the those are going to be off the charts on cfu But what's actually really interesting is raw milk is a horrible probiotic. It is Absolutely terrible very low in beneficial bacteria. Yes very very low and and usually what people are getting are flash Flash chilled raw milk. This is milk. That's been chilled really fast Right when it comes out of the cow and and you have to do this otherwise. It'll be sour by the time it gets to you It's it's not even it's not even a probiotic So, you know, it's a great food It's just not I I see a lot of people doing these raw milk cures and I was victim of this too I you know, I drink like a gallon and a half of milk of flash chilled raw milk and um Well, that's great for probiotics. Yeah, that's great for glutathione synthesis You know more milk has a lot of raw milk has a lot of b vitamins It has vitamin c very readily available to be converted for antioxidant capacities Especially people that have a hard time with methylation You drink a glass of milk You feel like a million bucks because of the easily available b vitamins But what you guys have to understand is if anything is beneficial from a probiotic standpoint That means it has to have bacteria and essentially has to be an aged or rotten food Yeah, it's um and and and a lot of the problems with you know, people Treat, you know, raw milk as this anti microbial food it will feed candida it will if you have sebo it will We we we've been fostering stray kittens and we do not give them raw milk I mean their stomachs just go Like we have to kill the parasites and and stuff like that first I was reading a study on that where If lactose is present in the digestive system Any pathogenic bacteria or not any but certain strains of bacteria Actually prefer to switch over to lactose and then they'll switch over to they'll switch over the glucose after the lactose is depleted yeah, it's it's it's like starch is like this huge long You know big structure that needs a lot of digestion, but it's totally worth the energy Lactose is just it's like super easy. It's only it's only one bond um Yeah, and and one thing so when we look at the the raw milk cures I mean they had like a hundred percent cure rate on these digestive issues and and now it's like a zero percent cure rate and You have to remember when when these people were were doing the cures antibiotics did not exist So they they weren't dealing with people who were who had been on antibiotics Um, and I also want to point out they weren't using a2 milk They weren't using jersey and they weren't using jersey milk the the fat in that milk is I guess the fat molecules are bigger and so it makes it a little bit harder to you said a2 you mean a1 or Do you mean they weren't they weren't using a2 a2 milk? They weren't using they're using whole steam milk. They're using a1 They were using a1. So you're saying a2 is actually bad Whereas most people think a2 is the better one Yeah, yeah, that that's another yeah, because I was doing a2 a2 milk and you know, it's it's fine It's totally fine milk.  So it's like even milk you can separate that into what's You know, what's the easiest form of milk? Can yeah, you have goat milk and cheat milk which has even smaller fat particles exactly exactly um Yeah, and um Yeah, and one other thing I see a lot of carnivore people do to injure their gut is is eating too much too much fat And if fat is important you need vitamin a d and k2 you need all those stuff but If you look at fat digestion It's it's you make bile it's it's got my pace so many enzymes it takes so long It's it's it's very tough So just just be careful with eating too much fat like eat, you know, don't don't be eating like lard with the spoons And one other thing that we haven't mentioned that people need to understand is when you consume a large volume of food Your body can only digest so much food at once So if you have a giant amount of food sitting in your stomach It just makes it easier for it to get to that pathogenic bacteria potentially and speaking of eating too much fat and food volume Candida Yes, it subsists off sugar better.  Okay. Yeah, I'm glad you asked that question.  It just it just likes that there Same thing with cheese, which is you know protein and and and fat Didn't really didn't really do anything Um, it really it explodes on glucose and starch It really needs it really needs the sugar in order to go crazy So that's that's why when people go on those low sugar diets, they they feel so great Um, I mean it's it's not like 50 percent.  They just don't Um, they need fat, but they don't they don't grow on fat. They just it doesn't work They need glucose and protein. Those are their two big growth growth things I think we've given people a pretty Easy protocol like generally guidelines on where to get started for whatever gut issues they're having What would you say the most common issues people come to you? Are like, what are they telling you and then what does it end up actually being? Are they correctly diagnosing themselves for whatever their problem is? you know mostly it's it's just Over complicating it and not asking the right questions. It's And you know, just just it's so easy to get overwhelmed.  That's that's what you that's that is the most important thing you can ask yourself When you when when you get some sort of reaction because And then you just have to slowly stop doing those things like I still make mistakes You know, I'll go out and see a piece of cake and I'm like, all right.  Oh, I'm gonna eat the dark chocolate. That's it's someone said it was healthy there are there's so many Plant chemicals and dark chocolate that will mess you up.  What makes you think you can eat dark chocolate like so white chocolate has It's it's only made with the the the cocoa butter, which doesn't have a lot of fat. Yeah the cacao fat Yeah, so it doesn't have a lot of those Antimutrients in it.  You know, I do like one of the least inflammatory probably Yeah, I do a latte restreto, which is like half the coffee and then like a lot of milk pasteurized milk, but you know, whatever it's my cheat thing and You know french presses. Oh man, those are all there's so like there's so much coffee in it. It's it's it's cheating, you know And you know doing the least amount of damage to your gut. Just think about what am I doing to injure my gut? I think coffee is something we we definitely should mention and and even chocolate itself Both of these foods what people have to understand and I've done videos on these is They're seeds of a plant. So they're very high in anti nutrients. They're very high in inflammatory compounds They're fermented. They're rotten. They're heated at high temperatures. They're oxidized It's basically one of the worst most inflammatory things you can put in your body Therefore when you have cacao butter when you have an espresso Where many negative components of these plant foods have been removed That's why you'll have less of a reaction to these foods But as mike said, you know a bear would you say a bear dies if it eats chocolate? Yeah, it's like a dog or a bear they they find bears dead in like pennsylvania like near the hersey chocolate Like because they get in chocolate Yeah um And you got to remember like if you if you think about these foods like from a natural context Like um, like think about coffee. It's a it's a cherry So you ate the cherry and you threw the the seeds out on the ground And maybe you use them medicinally every once in a while for something Um, you know same thing with chocolate and and when they're saying that they're fermenting these things They're they're not really they're just from they're fermenting the fruit. They're really not fermenting Oh, no, they're not. Yeah, absolutely right. It's just letting the fruit fall off the outside Yeah, yeah, so they're not exactly sprouting the seeds or anything Yeah, there's one company that does that in in new york um Eat cultured or something like that you should check them out. I haven't been able to get a hold of it. I'm curious to try it But yeah, just focus on not injuring your gut I know people are like they watch my videos and they're like you didn't tell us anything After 10 years like of me just trying random things or rammed in diets like Yeah, I could be doing carnivore perfectly for six months or something like that And you know, I still had issues I just like random things and it was just simply because I wasn't chewing my food or I was eating too much It was like simply came down to like stupid simple things done and just to hammer this point home You know stop looking at solutions stop asking other people what you should be doing Stop troubleshooting take a step back analyze what you're doing analyze what you've done for the past few years There's definitely something you're doing wrong. There's something everyone's been doing wrong So until you address those things that you've been doing wrong And yeah, of course, you need a baseline you need a base understanding something like what we've been talking about to understand Where you should be But really make sure to address, you know, what could be wrong And and the comparison you're making to is what is the difference between my diet? And the natural diet of an indigenous person, you know, where is the food i'm eating originating from?  So those plants have to make more chemicals so That's It's You know, you just have to stop injuring your gut and then re-culture it.  It's really that simple when you keep it down into those things not injuring And disinfect and re-culture It's it's really that simple. Yeah, that probably makes sense. Why? Saccharomyces bulardi is is good against candida because it's a tropical fungus Oh, really? Yeah, that's that's that's pretty interesting now I personally follow a primarily carnivorous diet, but you know throughout my dietary history I do incorporate a lot of fermented animal foods I have messed around with raw dairy consuming milk and dairy products that do have a carbohydrate content And I have incorporated honey into my diet, you know in various contexts What is Something that you suggest people should be doing on the carnivore diet that we're not really seeing You know, those people that are just, you know stuffing down Conventional beef bacon eggs every single day Whatever your goals are and I know what it's like to first go on those meat-based diets and all your symptoms vanish but I I I believe most people when they hit that one or two year mark They're going to need to start getting some sort of sugar into your diet. I mean Glucose, I mean your body's Converting protein in the glucose. So if you're if you're at that point where you want to start You know eating eating plant foods You know and You know, that's what our ancestors were doing, you know, that's when we look at western aid prices work You know really look at what you're doing to injure your gut and and I You know start getting the infection under like you're in a really good place Like being on the carnivore diet for, you know A couple months to a year is a really good place to start fighting infection reculturing your gut and then starting to bring in You know some tasty plant foods like you could hate bread all you want But and hate on bread all you want, but there's no doubting that it's delicious Especially with some grass-fed butter slathered on it like a sourdough sourdough bread And and there's there's there's so much confusion around starches. I I show I it's my belief our ancestors were not eating whole grains They were eating purled grains who are finding ways to remove that bran um Or they were heavily fermented heavily heavily fermented heavily heavily from and I have I like I I'm a mad scientist with stuff. I Super sensitive to the brand.  You know, like there's there's a way to eat potatoes safely So yeah, I I could yeah, I show people how to do that I think one thing to understand is People look at glucose starches, wheat Grains as bad things and yes, there are potential negative components in the food Like you said, you have a problem with bran you react to certain things But if you're able to reduce that anti-nutrient content What you're basically have is a base energy source for your body and when you consume a star and honey's a good example of this When you consume honey, what you're doing is you're feeding your body's energy stores and you're feeding your gut bacteria Think of starch think of starch as fuel for your microbes You know, don't think of yeah, you know when you're consuming meat when you're consuming Organ meats when you're consuming fat quality seafood think of that as the nutrients what you need to build your body Think of the fermented foods as what you need to build your gut microbiome And think of the starches as what you need to feed that gut microbiome So to keep your body healthy to keep your gut microbiome healthy It makes sense to have all of these components And that's why when we look at western prices indigenous groups All of them consumed cooked food raw food fermented food and plant foods Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm, and and I'm all about Efficiency and if your body is not getting glucose from its food. It's getting it from protein and I don't know how many chemical reactions are involved in that. It's yeah, gluconeogenesis is stressful. It's not it's not easy So it's it's much easier on your body to just eat glucose And this depends greatly on on your ancestry too uh, most most people There's no one that's super efficient at gluconeogenesis. There are some people that are more efficient at utilizing fat But some people are probably like cold cultures. Yeah. Yeah, but someone italian like me A lot of people You know in in places where starch consumption has been high And and even you know, some of the most physically impressive groups of people in the world The messai the nerrs the south sudanese They had the presence of large amounts of animal foods in their diet. Yes But they also got a lot of starch and a lot of tubers and a lot of energy calories Yeah, what's the price all the africans eating all sorts of starches. It just It's kind of a mix up in africa. He's you know, they were they had a like a mix of modern and Kind of depended on where he visited Um, yeah, but and again if you go look back to mother nature We're very similar to carnivore, but we have that colon. We have that big colon compared to the other carnivores And I think that's for starch digestion At and there's really not a lot of other animals that that have that but but all the anti nutrients and starch It's supposed to be there and it's like a friend to us Um, you know, that's how you store your grains for winter You know, it's it's a way it's natural preservatives Because when you eat the preservatives in our packaged foods, you're just sterilizing your gut And causing all sorts of issues. So it's one example of that with mother nature Yeah, one example of that is the phytic acid people don't know that phytates is actually phosphorus That's bound up and our body our body needs our body needs phosphorus Just like it needs calcium just like it needs magnesium But it's bound up in this plant food and it's everything in nature has a purpose And I was actually thinking, you know stan effortings vertical diet You know the premise of eating me. I don't know if you're familiar, but he's like red meat and it's red meat and rice based Yeah, it's like it's well, it's red meat and rice and I was like, well, honestly You know the premise is there, you know, you have the presence of nutrients from red meat And you have the presence of starch from white rice, but you know, obviously you want to increase the food quality You need to incorporate fermented foods, but out of all the diets that we see now It's unfortunate that outside of the western price diet nothing really comes close to To what we need for optimal human health Yeah, and it's and literally at the end of the day, like my diet like Looks the same as it did when I was like a little kid like I elk bread And meat it's like what I eat and I'm trying to get I'm a baby with organ meats You know, I take my organ capsules, but you know, I love liver patte. I love bone marrow Brains ain't bad fried brains. Oh fried brains. It's delicious reddit brains. It's really good.  I'm a sauerkraut is a mate is actually what's student A meat stock or bone broth. That's it's good.  It was delicious.  We've been eating them for a long time I you have to be careful of what society has Has done to things and especially these past 50 years, but you know, everything is we can potentially eat Most things. I mean just just look at just look at the animals that eat it in mother nature. Like what do they do? And it'll give you a lot of hints and just use common sense and Efficiency efficiency efficiency. Don't don't injure your gut. It's just what you got to look for Mike, I can't thank you enough for joining me with this and for those of you that are like, oh frank Aren't you so dogmatic about the carnivore diet that the thought unfortunately there needs to be a lot of You know, you have to be very forceful and very Overwhelming to to get people to break out of that shell of what because if you tell people What we're saying today Oh, you know, it's okay if you eat this that and that if you have a healthy gut microbiome And people think they have a healthy gut microbiome, but they really don't So so a lot of it is educating people getting them out of that, you know, kind of close minded mindset So can you just you know, let people know, you know, where they can find you What have been up to lately anything to look out for in the future? Yeah, and I just want to add on to what you just said like You know, most people can eat mcdonald's and they're totally fine.  So it's you know Yeah, that is a huge contrast. That is a huge contrast.  I don't know if you look at their diet. It's like Oh, it's it's terrible. It's horrible. It's not but they but their body is their guts aren't injured So that they can digest that I can only imagine what monsters they would be if they like good food Who knows? So but yeah, uh, I'm on um youtube I release like two two videos a day. I'm not a day. Uh, I can't I can't do that two videos a week But yeah, we're not up to errick burge status that guy works Like crazy. Oh, uh, errick burge. He does three videos a day. I think That's insane. I can't do that. Well, he has a production team. We're on our own Yeah, we're on our own on that one. So yep, I do two videos a week. Um, you know, I have a free book called 21 nutrition and health lies Um, just like 21, you know modern things and even holistic lies and myths you run into Um for free on my channel, but um, but yeah, yeah, just come check us out. We're heavily based in you know, I'm not carnivore, but um You know, I do use a lot of carnivore principles and Westernaet prices, you know, pretty much my bible And and the laws of mother nature. I really And avoiding injury and promoting healing those those are the things I really emphasize and I really don't see any other gut healing diets focusing on avoiding injury, which is You know, most people are like, I want to get to the root cause you know The root cause is injury like that's what it is and that's what you have to and I you know That's that's that's what I'm trying to teach everybody Yeah, we know there are some other Protocols like gaps fad maps, but the level of success in those programs is just It's unfortunately it's not for most people Yeah, I borrow a lot of ideas And and usually people run into issues when they start like oh grains are bad, but let's eat some nuts They're the same by odd. They're the same thing. They're actually hardier than grains And so that that's where people, you know, they they hit that they hit that stage Where they're putting in nuts and they don't know nuts is you know That is has a very it might not be the issue, but it has a super high probability of that that's going to be the issue Yeah, it's it's like someone might google. Oh, how do I get more calcium or iron and google says to get eat spinach, but Spinach the iron and the calcium is bound to oxalate So a lot of what we're being told is like face value paper value stuff that on paper It looks like it's going to work.  That's why we're trying to figure things out and trying to help you guys out And what's funny is is this stuff is science this stuff is not debatable Like no, it's not. Yeah, it's like you can debate about how to make a nut easier to digest And and what methods to make it easier to digest But there's no debate on whether someone with an injured gut should be eating nuts. Yeah No, there's there's no debate on what happens when when you consume lectins They actually they they physically leak through the small intestine.  This is like pouring water on a fire.  This isn't a hypothetical thing This is literally something. Yeah, we're not lying replicates statistics and making stuff up 100% of water patients drink 100% of cancer patients drink water water causes cancer It's like they're doing stuff like that. It's like totally insane Um, yeah, I love talking with you frank it. It's like Yeah, we we both see it from that same perspective looking at western a prices and indigenous cultures Yeah, when you and when you bring up when you bring up these conversations even though We've both come across this information in the past even just like the presence of the The veg vegetal stuff in the gut like when we revisit that type of stuff. We realize oh, that's really important That's really significant stuff that is often overlooked Yeah, yeah, but uh, mike. Thanks again for joining us As he said you guys can find him on his youtube channel. I will link that at the end here And if you guys do want to check out the other perfected health podcasts We are on episode seven now going slow and steady If you guys have any recommended guys any things you guys would like to see, uh, please do let me know But thank you guys for joining us on this lovely sunday.