Good morning, everyone, and welcome to the second half of the 2022 Fitch Colloquium. My name is Jorge Otero-Pylos, I'm Professor and Director of the Historic Preservation Program at Columbia University's Graduate School of Architecture Planning and Preservation. We are coming back from the longest break ever in a conference, a break of 11 hours. If you are in New York or in the United States, you went to sleep after our conference last night. But if you were in China, good evening to all of you. You had a very long day between the morning session and then tonight's evening session. The Fitch Colloquium honors the memory of our founder, the Columbia University Historic Preservation Program's founder, James Marston Fitch, an incredible figure that traveled the world and thought broadly about preservation and was interested in all aspects of preservation from architectural design to policy questions to historical research to materials research and technology. Quite an extraordinary figure and it's that legacy that we honor today and in today's symposium is particularly relevant as well because it is in collaboration, it is organized in collaboration with the Museum of Modern Art. As I mentioned yesterday, but for those of you that were not here, this symposium really began in dialogue with Martino Sierli and Evangelos Cotieres who have curated an exhibition in MoMA called Reuse, Renew, Recycle Recent Architecture from China, which is on view through July 4th about which Evangelos will talk a little bit more in a second. Before I turn to Evangelos, I just want to do a little recap of yesterday's conference. We heard yesterday from Zonke, from Xu Tianzian and from Philip Yuan, beautiful projects dealing with heritage and many different levels and in some ways we were looking to understand through those presentations the forces underlying the turn in China to preservation, Chinese architecture to preservation. There has been a marked turn from an emphasis on new construction in symbolic buildings to preservation in China and we wanted to take note of it and understand what are the forces underlying this term. And we learned yesterday about many of those forces, what is activating this turn and in particular we heard a lot about the social issues that are driving this turn, grappling with in a sense some of the outcomes of the incredible construction boom that happened in China in the last 40 years, but in particular with particular intensity in the last 20. We heard about the social issues being really as a result of construction, things like displacement, social displacement and we saw that kind of displacement both in cities and in rural areas and we've seen attempts that really start at the government level with different policies being set up to address and repair the social problems. In architects responding giving expression to these policies and trying to address them at various levels, we saw for example the upgrading of vernacular housing to contemporary living standards both in cities and in rural areas and particularly point in example with hutongs of Zongkei. We also saw new modes of cooperative businesses, the creation of these cooperatives to support family owned craft businesses like tofu and sugar to bring them up to contemporary health standards but also to aggregate them so that for example packaging becomes easier, marketing becomes easier and we saw some amazing projects by Xu Tiancian on that and these projects are really trying to preserve not just architectural heritage but they're also trying to preserve these intangible traditional practices and giving them new locations, new sites for them to practice and then we saw a very interesting now rise of a new tourist economy, internal tourist economy to China where urban travelers, urban tourists are going to rural sites to see how these traditional crafts are carried. Of course another social issue is that there's been mass migrations from rural areas so actually some of these crafts don't have enough people to be carried out. So the question of labor force becomes a real issue and we saw the attempts to create new robotic tools to carry out these crafts to assist the local craftsmen in a hybrid mode so not to replace craftsmen but to actually help them do the work in light of the fact that there's just fewer people to do it and we saw Philip Yuan for example with his interest in woodworking helping us understand how that can be a form of assistance to local crafts. Now we're familiar with now motorized tools and pneumatic hammers and so on in construction sites in the United States and around the world in fact and those kinds of attempts to introduce robotics tools really go back to the 19th century in the United States. So this is let's say one more step along that way and it was interesting to hear Philip Yuan talk about the sense that the future for him is a hybrid future between humans and robots kind of working together. We also saw a very interesting discussion about materials and both the combination of traditional and more contemporary materials. There was a beautiful project with Zhang Ke of introducing the most traditional and beautiful of Chinese materials ink which is at the heart of a whole tradition of painting and of writing and script and introducing that ink in different ways into architecture through by mixing it with concrete and that was very interesting. We also saw the real kind of interest in traditional wood construction and adapting, reviving some of that wood construction in the work of Xu Tianxian but also of reinventing it and rethinking it across all of the projects. I'm sure some of these issues, some of these ideas are going to come up today as well. And before I introduce the speakers, I'll be introducing them one by one today but just to give you, I mean just a telegraph, we're going to hear from Dong Gong, Wan Hui, Lu Wenyu and Pei Wei Yi, Chloe today. I'll be again giving you a better introduction of each of them before they speak. Both the speakers yesterday and the speakers today are really superstars in world architectural and world preservation architecture and we are just so honored and delighted that they have all agreed to participate and share their ideas and thoughts with us. After some of them have been included in the exhibition at MoMA but not all of them. So I will now turn the virtual podium over to Evangelos to tell us a little bit about the exhibition at MoMA and which was the spark for this conference. Good morning, Jorge. And thank you for this introduction. Thank you also to everybody joining from around the world. So good evening to those in China and other parts of the world. I'm going to say a couple of words about the exhibition we use, Renew Recycle, Recent Architecture from China, which is currently on view on the first floor of the Museum of Modern Art here in New York and was co-curated by Martin Osterli, the Chief Curator of Architecture and Design and me. This is a small exhibition that showcases eight projects from the last decade, more or less, of architectural production in China that really share a number of common threads which are namely the idea of reusing existing buildings or renewing urban infrastructure or recycling materials. And even though it is really kind of focusing on them as a case study almost on Chinese architectural production, both of us believe that it's a remarkable kind of set of projects and practices and strategies that architects from many different parts of the world can learn from. I wanted to start by showing you just this introductory wall into the exhibition, which speaks also to the multiplicity of practices represented in the show. And to give you also kind of a glimpse or a peek into the actual side of the installation, you'll notice that there is not only the multiplicity of practices represented, but also multiplicity of media that speak again to the tools and processes that many of these architects that we have been in conversation employ. So preservation is really one of the dimensions that runs through this exhibition. And what is perhaps commendable to note is that preservation or historic preservation of structures and buildings is not meant as a means to an end or it doesn't come as a mandate, but is in most cases actually proposed by the architects themselves as a way of creating communities that are embedded in their context and create a kind of cultural continuity for them. I just wanted to point out also very briefly, without giving away too much information, two of the architects that are part of this panel today, and we'll hear more from them. The first one is vector architects and Donggong's work for the Alila Yangshuo Hotel in Guilin, which really speaks to the ways in which more humble structures like that of a sugar factory can be become part of development for a region. In this case, part of the hospitality industry in a very kind of interesting and, you know, sustainable manner or the work of Wang Xu and Lu Wenyu of Amateur Architecture Studio, whose work really, I think has set the groundwork for many of the younger members of the current generation of Chinese practitioners working in this vein. Here, for instance, you see one of their material studies for the Jinghua Ceramic Pavilion on the left, which is an older project than the others in this show, but really kind of speaks to this intense interest in, you know, materiality and craftsmanship and how those ideas of architectural practices can be brought to the present through translation. And really on the right, the project, one of the two projects that they will be discussing today, the Wencheng Village and Yihangzhou, which proposes a repertoire of interventions in a depopulating village. And I will not say much more than that. I also wanted to mention that Urbanus and the work of Wang Xu, who is one of the speakers, is perhaps included in this installation that you see on your screens, but is represented in MoMA's collection through the Tule Collective Housing Project from 2005-2008, which reinvents and reinterprets the communal dwelling type of the Tulu housing, which is unique to the Hakka people. And today they're going to talk about a different project that is also extremely fascinating. And we also look forward to hearing, of course, from Pei Weiwei, Weiwei, Chloe and her work on the Shujang Heritage Park in Beijing. On that note, I wanted to also thank the historic preservation program at Columbia, G-SAP, Jorge Oteropilos and Sarah Grace Goodwin for giving us this opportunity to collaborate and unpack some of these dimensions that our exhibition hopefully has provided a starting point for. And I would also encourage everybody who has the possibility to visit the exhibition in New York to do so until July 2nd, when will be the closing date for this exhibition. And on that note, we very much look forward to today's presentations and discussions, and I'm sure that will be as exciting and prolific as yesterday's. Jorge, I'm afraid you're enraged. OK. Thank you, Avangelos. It's a wonderful exhibition. I encourage everyone to go see it. I think one of the things that is is an obvious thing, but it bears repeating is that so much of American academia, you know, has been influenced by Chinese students and the influx of Chinese students in recent decades. They have been the bridge that has really educated us as faculty as to this amazing work and this incredible traditions of Chinese architecture and preservation. Of course, there has always been some kind of bridge, some kind of connection between the United States and China. There is a long history of Chinese immigration to America. And that, of course, we have a lot of Chinese American students in our program who also contribute to our to the understanding of the enormous contributions that the Chinese have made to the development of the United States of America. And I want to thank Chris Kumar, Jaja, who is a great activist of that. But so many others in our in our program, Clara Yip and others who constantly remind us of those contributions. But in particular, I think it is important in this conference to really acknowledge, and I did so yesterday, but I want to do it again, acknowledge the role that our current Chinese students have played in organizing this conference. They are just a terrific force. They're incredibly smart. And they're the ones that really we had discussions with them about, you know, identifying the leading voices in China, working on preservation and architecture. So I want to thank them. Laxi Yan, Xu Yiyin, Ziming Wang, Daxing Shen, Xi Yuli, Yingye Tian, Hongye Wang, Wenji Xue, Zihao Zong, Shuya Zhao, Jianing Wei, and Ye Xu. I also want to thank, of course, Sarah Grace, Godwin and the GSAP events team. Sarah Grace is a program manager for historic preservation and the GSAP events team, including Stefan, Boda, Carlusi, Chris Bach and and the rest. And Chris, of course, who joins us today. So thank you all. Thank you, of course, again to Martino and Evangelos for your collaboration in this. This is just it's been a really amazing first day and we're about to then turn over to our second day with the first presentation by Dong Gong, who is a founder of Vectra Architects. He has was elected as the foreign member of the French Academy of Architecture in 2019. He's been success successively employed as design tutor at Tsinghua University and Central Academy of Arts, distinguished visiting professor at the University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign, a visiting professor at the Polytechnic University of Turin, and indeed a really a world figure in his in his work, not only in China, but in this pedagogical practice. He and Vectra Architects have been invited to various major exhibitions showcasing their work, including the first Chinese architecture exhibition at MoMA, the 2018 Free Space Venice Biennale as well and many others, but we don't have time to get into them. But Dong Gong's practice has earned international recognition by his representative works, including the Seashore Library, Seashore Chapel, Alila Hotel in Yangshuo and the renovation of the captain's house in Jiangjian Art Museum. The everyone's CVs is a very, very lengthy and illustrious. So we are just it's this is just the tip of the iceberg. And so without further ado, I turn the virtual podium over to Dong Gong and thank you. Thank you. Thank you for introduction. And thank you for inviting me to be part of this symposium. I'm going to share the screen first. So can you see? Can you see the screen? Yes, it's perfect. Thank you. Great. OK. So. Yeah, I noticed this keyword of this entire discussion of symposium is the preservation. And I do think it's a very sensitive and meaningful issue, especially in China in the current moment, because you might know that, you know, China has been undertaking this drastic urbanization process for the past 30 to 40 years. So literally, this entire country is in the progress of transforming into some new state. So how we deal with this relationship between new and old become a very crucial issue for architecture people. So today my topic of the presentation will be the evolution of a place. It's basically about a story about a factory, which is a factory, it's a sugar mill factory built about 60 or 70 years ago. And generation by generation step by step transform into current cultural icon in China. So I basically will introduce the story and sharing some of my understanding about the preservation throughout the presentation process. This project is basically located in Guangxi, which is in the southern part of China and closer to a tropical climate area. And that the red spot is the location of the project. And there's a very powerful factor about the site because if you see the red line on the screen is the property line of the project. And it's right along a very famous river in China is the Lijiang River. And it's supposed to be a number one beautiful water scenery river in Chinese people's mind. And together with the river, this is a typical karstic geographical district. So when you see this picture, you can have a sense of how beautiful this mountain and water landscape is. And besides this beautiful scenery, we do have another very important factor, which is the sugar mill factory right over here. And this factory was built around 1960s. And throughout the history, it has different stages, which I will elaborate later on. And this is almost like an iconic angle to see this factory together with this beautiful mountain around the factory. And eventually actually our design concept has a lot to do with how we deal with this factory as a center dominating role together with the surrounding beautiful mountainscape and also the river in front of it. So majorly two important relationships, relationship with the factory and the relationship with the natural landscape. The factory was a very important industrial facility back to the time when it was built. This is a very interesting image. It was 1972, which actually is a year I was born. The factory became the cover page of the National Military Magazine. So you can have a feeling that how important and the high class the factory was back to that time. But unfortunately, all the way to the end of 1980s because of the national policy of this environmental protection, the factory was shut off. And it's becoming abundant structure in the suburb of Yangshuo County. And this series of pictures just give you the condition after the close off of the factory, the condition of the entire architecture structure. Actually in the early 20s, in the early 2000s, however client they drove by along the Yangshuo County and very coincidentally they see the structure. And they fell in love with the structure because of the beautiful atmosphere, the architecture together with the mountains around that. So they invited a Shanghai architect. His name is Zhao Chongxin to give a very preliminary and basic repair of the entire structure. So I really appreciate his work back to almost like 15 years ago because he did a very slight and a very accurate touch to the original structure. He didn't do too much about this architectural expression as designer, but he just simply reinforced the structure and also replaced some component of the eroded portion of the building. And starting in 2013, I was involved in the project which the client made up the decision they tried to transform the entire structure into a hotel. And I was fortunate in the beginning of my design progress when I went to Yangshuo I had this chance to have a lunch together with some elderly people who worked in this factory when they were young. And then they started talking about a lot of stories and the experience tried to memorize the moment when they work in the factory. And for me, it's a great learning process about this physical structure. It's not only architecture heritage of the local area, but at the same time it's almost like an emotional link or emotional identification for some people living in the area. So this wall also has a big impact in our later design process. And we started design progress with the hand sketches. This is my personal method to start, learn from the site to discover the important things and build up this emotional interaction between architect and the place. So some of the design decision actually were made along right on the site instead of in the architect isolated in the office. This is a typical way of our work method in vector architects. And this is almost represent the eventual layout of the entire compound. And no matter what we do because we made up the decision that we keep the original factory and then we transform them into some public programs like libraries, like cafeteria, dining area, and bar, and etc. And then we have to add new volumes into this compound to fulfill the functional requirement. But no matter what we do we still keep the factory volumes original volumes in the center area. So the new volume become a flunking wings alongside the original structure. This is a very important relationship because we want to still keep the original structure as the dominating role of the entire compound. Of course we went through a very thorough consideration about the different possibilities about the master plan. So from the elevation also you can see the central part it's still the factory and the new volumes is alongside. And we try to design some sequential space inside the new volumes but we keep it simple. We keep the profile simple and clean. Try to make a harmonic relationship between old and new. And that's the eventual first floor plan of the entire compound. But this is the center part which is the original factory and they are checking room and they are restaurant and so forth. And these are two new volumes alongside and we made up this landscape reflecting pond in the front of the entire compound and at the same time it's a far distinguished water pond. And then this is the corner of Li Jiang. We have original trust connect the entire compound to the river. This is a picture showing you how beautiful this original factory the facade, the material was. And one of our design task is try to build up something has relationship with the old between the new and old but we have to make sure the new also represent the current technology and current aesthetic value. So we actually went through a design process try to achieve that and this is why the early sketches about this wall section so eventually we made up this design decision we use concrete blocks it's also a masonry stacking detailing logic. It has a similar scale with the original break and it has a similar logic about the construction detail because it's all always stacking but because of the concrete could carry out a different kind of material quality it can take more light and ventilation, the air into the surface and to make the inside space has a better quality for living. So from this very early design model the surface is made of this concrete block but we try to make the surface light in terms of the sense of weight and it allows more light and air to go through and from this appearance it shows a certain translucency of the materiality and this is the model in the schematic phase and then gradually the scale model is getting bigger because we have to make sure we make the right design decision by making the large scale model and this model is one-to-one mock-up in our office it's not in the construction site and we try to use form to test this opacity and also the scale of the material and then finally we went through this process of manufacture and we actually declined and us tried to find a collaborator who is the professional manufacturer but eventually we failed because of the limit of the budget and also the difficulty of the transportation later on so at that moment our client made a very bold but very smart decision that he tried to build up his own factory just right on the site to really make the block by the local people by the local team so this I include several images showing you the process of how we did the study and the research and eventually fabricate this concrete block by the team on the site they invent some machines try to pull the block outside the formwork this is the picture showing that particular step and this is the the condition of that small factory and behind is our the structure of the building it's a construction site this is a typical process so we have a formwork made by a PVC and then they have to lay the rebar it's very thin but it's almost like a cast in place concrete and eventually they pour the concrete inside this formwork the mold and then they grind the surface and eventually to push out this concrete block by this small machine they invented by themselves and this is the process of stacking this is actually in the construction site so there are some very particular thought details I won't go too much into detail but you can see how they incorporate the rebar inside the masonry wall of such effort so it's a combination of architect together with the local worker we collaborate together and try to find the solution and during the process we always have one architect to really live on the site and working together with the team of the construction so it's really about a co-working process between the architect with the local workers and that's the final outcome of the material even though it's made by this very heavy material but because of the process we try to control a sense of lightness in the eventual result and that's at the twilight condition when the light comes from inside it becomes almost like a lantern effect I will show you a short clip to tell the story about this entire construction process and this is actually back to 15 years ago when the climb went to the site and they take the air balloon to fly to the sky and then look at the site from above that's the site so they start the foundation work they're full of stones underneath the building it's almost like the extension from the mountain aside that's the pouring concrete install the formwork we have this large piece of this wood formwork because we try to reduce the joint of the construction on the concrete surface so sometimes the entire space is one formwork and that's the machine I mentioned earlier pushing the concrete block outside of the mold that's actually how we test the strength on site of the concrete block but of course we have a structure consultant this is just double check and that's the topping of the structure at the bottom is the site and then you can see how beautiful this car stick landscape and that's the stacking process and that's myself and our interior designer Jubeen on the site the fence work around the compound he actually knocked off some of the block because they made some mistake that's the installation process of bamboo shelter inside the building Jubeen and myself designing the location of trees that's actually the opening ceremony back to three years ago in 27 five years mad at firework it's almost like a battlefield but very next day we encountered a big flood in the local area the Yangshuo County and the entire county was flooded and I was told it's almost like the most serious flood during the recent 50 years so you see this is the road in front of the hotel it's becoming a river the hotel actually closed off because the basement is flooded so they repaired for another three months and after three or four months they reopened the entire compound and that's the moment they reopened in the October of the same year after four months of the flood so no matter how noisy the entire process is how complicated we go through eventually it's becoming a peaceful place I think that's probably the most rewarding moment for architect I noticed that I probably already exceed the time limit but please allow me to use another very short video clip to give you a sense about what's the current condition of the hotel compound that's the reflecting pond in the center of the entire compound and that's almost like a cathedral old factory and that's a cut-in tap inside the water pond this is the hallway connected the front desk room to the typical guest room building volume so it's an outdoor space covered by the concrete shelter that's a sequential space inside the new volume that's the bamboo installation in one of the open terrace inside the new volume actually the truss is also from the original old structure and we transform this place into a swimming pool in front of the Lijiang River and look into the distance of the mountains and that's the camera flying above the water and then we look back to the entire compound so I'm done with this presentation I think we can leave more time for the further discussion later on Jorge, I will give the floor back to you Thank you Dong Hong, what an amazing project what an inspiring presentation so much to talk about, we will return to comments, I just want to tell everyone in the audience to press the button, write your questions and comments down there and we will address them in the discussion session afterwards we now turn to Wang Hui co-founder of Urbanis architecture and design Wang Hui is one of the most visionary architectural designers in China working with historic buildings to develop a whole practice around engaging with historic architecture and historic sites he's a council member of the architectural society of China also teaches, he's a studio master at the school of architecture at Tsinghua University and a visiting professor at the center for architectural research and design at the Chinese Academy of Sciences as a design philosophy he's going to talk a little bit more about that but he's really developed a whole methodology for balancing the urbanization of China with the new urbanization with the old historic monuments that are absorbed by this urbanization and to explore new spatial solutions to really reconcile these conflicts to build a new and in fact the kinds of urban life that takes place between this new kind of development some of his recent projects focus on new ways of revitalizing ignored historic monuments and they've aroused very interesting debates in Chinese historic preservation circles some of those examples are the environmental upgrade and the holy flame plaza at the Shihu Du relics so without further ado I'll turn the virtual podium over to Wang Hui and thank you for joining us thank you for your invitation and your introduction so let me share this screen good morning everyone my name is Wang Hui I'm the director of this column cream can you see my screen yes we can but it's not the we see the whole PowerPoint slide now okay perfect so my presentation is to concentrate so dimension wise this heritage is only 8 by 14 meters and it was constructed in the year 831 more than thousands of years ago it was in the end of the Tang Dynasty which is the highlight of China's civilization so this tiny building actually is much great if you don't know Chinese architecture that much but if I show you this timeline it is actually occupied a very very important position of all these kind of existing timber architectures so it is the second oldest existing timber architecture in China the oldest Taoist temple in China the building is located in Shanxi province but also if we look at this timeline of war architecture it's also very interesting that this timeline actually is in the middle of some is in between the decline of the Roman Empire and the revival of the city culture in the 11th century of medieval age so during this period in the western world it is called dark age war whatever so which means civilization was almost not there but in the eastern world we have this magnificent impulse and so this is one of three existing remaining architecture from the Tang Dynasty so that's the importance of this and then what I have done is something like this then I will raise some criticism because this thing is too subjective well then that's something I want to discuss this morning of the three words one is criticality and another one is heritage and another one is involvement if I am a pure historical preserver then it's not a problem just to make something as it works but since I'm hired as an architect it seems like I have to do something to it so this is what I call involvement and involvement is inevitable something very very subjective and how can you judge your intervention is something right so that's something of the criticality so we go back to Kent in his terminology the criticality is not to criticize something but it's actually reflective is a nation of the validity and the limits of reasoning capacity so back to this heritage this heritage actually was not found until the late 1950s when this temple was relocated to this area because of the construction of a reservoir which will flood the original temple and this one is relocated in the same county and then people found another old structure in this village not too far away from this place so let's say authenticity of this temple which can be found in this kind of photography is something like this and in front of the temple there's a pond so then it explains why this temple is called the five dragon or the fifth dragon because dragon is in charge of water and in the old days actually this kind of temple of the dragon functions as a weather broadcasting institute so it's a necessary part of the people's everyday life and also the building itself is in the middle of the field is so close to the village's daily life so this place because it's very very remote and it's pretty hard to access so even I was educated as an architectural student in my knowledge of my college I never ever heard about this and this building was spotted by another gentleman he's Mr. Ding he's a senior vice chairman of a big developer and he is also a lover of the Chinese architecture and so he found this place quite interesting but he told me the building is in a bad shape and he invited me to do something good for that so we met to see this one and I was with that kind of expectation such as when you read the writings by Walter Benjamin he will mention the aura and then when you first encounter this building this is the aura so actually it's not something you will think this is a very prestigious building but indeed it's in the backyard and when you go up to this level there are two buildings in front of it it's a theater stage and this theater stage was contrasted in Qing Dynasty not very long only like 300 years ago and this stage is to perform plays to please the dragon king in the temple itself the temple is in such a bad shape so that was not too long ago it was in the year 2013 nine years before then after that we did a proposal how to improve the environment for the local government and then we didn't hear anything and then we heard the temple itself is restored to the environment by the antique bureau and then we went to see it again and we saw the new temple like this although it looks new but anyway in terms of condition it's much better but when you go back to the front of the temple itself it's still a junkyard and this is something of the environment about them so we really want to do something and there's an opportunity can which is the Milan Espo in the year 2015 and the developer went they invited Daniel Lieberstein to design a pavilion in the Espo so after the Espo this pavilion will be dismantled and they think we should do something for the legacy of this pavilion and they decided to do a proud funding to sell the tiles of this pavilion and to collect the money and to use this money to do a non-project work in China because we have this proposal already and we propose to Chairman Mr. Wanshi and he lasts it and then we propose a long plan in Chinese it's also called long which means dragon so we try to use this kind of proud funding money and the investment of the bankers company to do something to improve the environment so we did lots of things and also this is a good process later on I want to discuss in the Q&A session because properly actually we didn't collect much money but good things like you let lots of people know this building and also you raise people's interest in doing such kind of thing and then this is the proposal we have and as an architect what we can do is about space but it's not only about space but also about time and the space is related time in terms of if you provide a longer sequence of space and then you can prolong the time because when we first came to this place the tunnel is not constructed yet so we have to go across a mountain, big mountain so it is almost like a day to be there but when you go to this place you see this single building and you stay there for nobody's feminist because you will totally lose your interest of seeing this and then you will leave so it's not worthwhile to come but one of the things like historical monuments and it is impossible for us to do something more and there is also a protection zone for this one and so the only thing we can do is outside of the protection zone we slightly increase the original wall for this and then make layers of walls and then create lots of spaces and then when you enter this one it's not encircled by original red wall but it's actually encircled by lots of spaces and another thing is after doing this as right now in retrospect this project I have to answer the question why our solution is correct so I'm borrowing Kahn's theory of Thucydus to validate my reasoning in three steps as mentioned by Kahn the first step is the synthesis of apprehension in intuition and the second step is synthesis of reproduction in imagination and the third step is the synthesis of recognition in a concept and the most important is the third step which means how can you prove what your involvement is correct so let's see the arrow view of this one and I do believe over the past thousand years this one doesn't change that much the religion and the temple but if you lower your eye level it's totally changed so this is something when we take the first glance of this one we have to make a judgment so what's our intuitive feeling and discovery of this one actually it's quite simple as I mentioned here the pond is gone because in water level the water is gone means the dragon king is gone and plus in today's material world we don't live in any kind of spiritual things and the worst thing is the historical preservation because when this building is enlisted into the national monuments and then the buildup is worn actually it's not to fence some kind of dangerous but actually it fences the villages over the past thousand years the villagers co-living with this temple but now they're gone so then the villagers made this one this lower dry pond area as their junkyard so our solution turned out to be very clear and very intuitive in the sense that we provide this pleasure to re-invite people come back and we provide this kind of routes to let people get into the space although we still have the fence wall but it's accessible and so this kind of originally this center but then it turned out to be a margin and then this center comes back so this is the original picture and this is later on and originally you have to access from this route it's not very comfortable so we provide these kind of steps leading the people going up and also this is a cave to raise cows or whatever and then we reintroduce this one and clean it up and make this one as a resting place for people together in the pleasant okay alright so and this picture shows you know this kind of program program and we're going up over here and when you go into the space so we do not allow people to see the building first actually go to a pre-function home something like a space in front of a multifunctional home so this is an educational space and it allows you history of this building and gives you sufficient knowledge to let you go to the second space appreciate the building and then this second space is something like this so this is a pre-functional space and you go to the second space and then immediately you see the building and this is actually the intuitive feeling that we do on the side I saw this side on the building and I think we should use one point perspective to concentrate on this and then also you know on the floor you create this kind of slightly going up ascending station so this is my first intuitive sketch modeling and so this is the real picture this is actually I'm standing I was staying here to do the real sketch of this one so they're quite similar and then after this space you have to go access to the MOA itself how to make this one? At the very beginning I just put some stones over here because this is a very muddy ground and we put a stone to cover it but then you know in the construction we change ideas, we just make people step on the stone because this is a place where we're remotely and not very much people many people come here so when you go to this place it's almost like you are the only visitor so I want people to listen to the voice and then you enter space actually you not enter a physical space but it's more or less like you enter into a mental space some people also criticize us so this is more like a Japanese courier something because Japanese they prefer a white stone but in it later on these kind of wild flowers will grow there will be something like this so this is the new scenario and this is the old one and we changed the color of the wall before it was in this kind of very sharp red but now we make a new material for this one and make the building very much coherent with surrounding environment because in China's traditional architecture normally there's no double axis it's only one axis but there's no another so that's kind of you mentioned by us also criticism for this and as we mentioned in the old days which is for the play to please the god inside the temple so it's not for people but today and so we will do a much wider pavement over here but still leave the original one here and so this is after and as mentioned before it's only a singular wall and after putting layers of walls we create this kind of space after space and we try to use space to make people to stay here longer and to stay here to various different things and then they will feel lots of interest in staying in Korea and also this kind of cross-session showing the ascending route and at the very end before it was something like this you won't see anything outside of the Korea now we provide this kind of observation after me and then you stay here and actually there's another historical remain over here so you can see the whole environment so this is a basic intuition where we see the site and quickly have a solution so this is at the very first step of designing but then another thing is like as I mentioned before we can come to this place really the reality is kind of boring so the second step is actually what I mentioned the synthesis of reproduction in imagination and then one thing you can imagine we came up with the idea of since this building has such prestigious status in the history of China architecture why not make it as an open Chinese timber architecture museum so we infuse all these kind of cases with lots of contents and these contents actually raise what we call now is augmented reality and this augmented reality actually we can find lots of inspirations such as the tablets in Iran and people do this kind of one-to-one scale inscriptions on the board for the construction of graphic architecture so we use the same method to make a one-to-one scale section of the building and also tells all these kind of gardens and enlarges of the buildings and actually it's done very hardly by this lady and manually it's not done by any kind of machine and we also we don't have any kind of equipment to trace the profile of this one so we just do it in a very stupid way like we printed in so many different sheets especially in the mountains there's no A0 size sheet so we have to clutch all these kind of small sheets together and then in the end we'll go into the first pre-function courier and not only you see this timeline of China's architecture but also you have one-to-one scale understanding of the building over here and so this is a very good educational contents about the history and secondly we also have massive spaces and nearby there are so many historical passages and so we want to make this one as a base when you come here you know much much more information about others and then maybe you can render by store you can go to somewhere else you will see more so we did a mock-up of this kind of exhibits and then later on made this one and to our surprise we kind of thought only tourists would be interested in this but actually local people they're very much engaged in reading of this kind of information which means actually help them to enrich the knowledge of their homeland and thirdly we do a courier for Chinese doggone this kind of bracket and so it's an element in China's architecture but when it was put on top of the column you don't sense how big this one is but when this one is put on the ground you have another kind of this so we in this courier we make like four brackets of the oldest Chinese architecture and although it's for educational purpose but actually it will for data map whatever so this explains the augmented reality we did for this reality and then the next step is to whether this kind of involvement is right we're also very much dubious about this but we have to do the synthesis of recognition in a concept for example what the concept is so for us I mean we are doing something rich so the concept is actually the special justice whether this one is coherent with the environment at the very beginning when we saw the local construction we think with the building there should be something like this in the rendering it looks like the rain earth construction I believe when you look she will elaborate their practice so those are the real ones but for us in terms of timing, in terms of lots of things it's impossible to do this then we work with GRC manufacturer to develop this one so they're using the form manually to create this kind of textures but unfortunately in factory it looks pretty good but when you put in the real scale you will see all these repetitive patterns which is too busy so we have to invite the workers so this thing is done half way not only in the battery but also half way by this guy the good thing for this one is actually it's a panel system and actually it fulfills the requirement of historical precision which means we use this kind of retractable system later on if we're not doing something correct so it can also be demolished to return to the original authenticity and also this is a system which can integrate other artworks in the display but we are also criticized by this and I was not quite certain about this until one day during the construction I went to Spain and I saw this building to my surprise, at work begin I thought this is done and then one minute ago I went back to this building because I realized there's no joints on the stone so it's actually all painted then I was pleased because although we are also doing something like this but I think what we are doing is correct it's not a matter of force or real construction it's a matter of something else and we have this kind of materiality in good relationship with nature, with this environment and also we have to re-invite the bodies before local people just do something like this after you go into a temple you won't feel any kind of respect to these gods so we ask people to redo this but also have four other diatoms in charge of lightning, rain, wind, thunder so it's all about this kind of rain or water stuff and after we finish this one, we have the altar we have five gods over here and the local leader and he was very pleased about this and he gave a very good comment after this the building does not seem very small because actually the building is very small and the gods do not look very big which means the relationship in terms of proportion and scale is correct and of course about the special justice is the co-leaving with the villagers so you can see like before people even don't have a place to sit but now we've got so many places for sitting so let me just show two pictures before and after in terms of the community so this was before we now have a cement road but similar because we sponsored the upgrading of the environment of the temple and then this one turned out to be very, very eye catching stuff and the local government paid money to rebuild the road and also to paint the buildings, whatever but now this is almost happening at the same place not only cleaning up the space but also provide lots of public facilities for sporting and also our long planting every year we will revisit the place to check whether it's still in good condition and we do lots of works we pray to the gods once again we plant new trees and so this is like three consecutive years I meet with the same keepers of the temple and whenever we come back we will invite the local theater to play of the local theater and of course attracts lots of tourists and also it's a place of kids to play now so it's part of their everyday life and the long plant is also developed into something more like last year Mr. Ding helped to establish a non-profit foundation and this foundation sponsored something such as during our first construction so we put all these tablets on the wall and it's not protected by any kind of canopy so last year we did a small canopy over here to protect these tablets so in summary I have mentioned three regional steps this kind of synthesis approach and most importantly is the synthesis of recognition in a concept three different approaches of historical preservation and the one I'm not sure whether it's polite to call those people who are against us against our approach I would call them is dream fundamentalist what they want is you just don't change anything until the whole thing claps not your responsibility if you add something new then this is your original thing because you don't have a good will to treat the heritage and in the neutral ground is this kind of authoritative measurement in terms of what they are doing is something called political correctness so what they want to do is just simply make a building sound and make the heritage as it used to be but as I mentioned because my role basically is an artist if I am invited to do something I have to be involved then I will call our approach approach is something like a critical involvement so we want something is not as it is what was being but as a becoming because space is in the reciprocal cycling so it has its past and in our hand is our present but most importantly is the next step what the future is I don't believe heritage is in the dead or mummy status so it is still in the status of life so based on this kind of understanding we actually we have done so many historical building or heritage preservation and things in a general sense we almost are taking the same approaches for example this is an archaeological site with such kind of like a plaza as a mark of the site but it doesn't work for the environment and we use but we cannot demolish this and we use it as a temporary and to make the thing to dialogue with the nature and to allow people's interest to experience this kind of primitive space so this is a temple in the demolition site and then we rescue this small pavilion over here and we make this kind of permit to make people sit here and see the environment and so this is a warehouse group which has finished renovation and turned out to be something like this but so generally speaking all process and logic behind is about the same so we want the heritage has in heritage Thank you for this amazing presentation this deep dive into the Five Dragons Temple which was just so eye opening I knew the project from before but it just gave us a whole new look so many themes are coming up that are resonating among the presentations we'll turn to those later please a reminder to everyone to put your questions in the Q&A so that we can turn to them after the presentations thanks again we're going to turn now to Lu Wenyu co-founder of Amateur Architecture Studio Lu Wenyu is an architect and practices with Wang Xu in Amateur Architecture Studio and together they also founded the architecture the department at China Academy of Art in 2003 they have both a practices architects but they are also very involved in education Lu was a visiting professor at Harvard GSD at MIT at UCL so really she's been really trying to build these bridges to the United States and exchanging information about architecture and preservation across from the United States and China she's completed a number of projects including of course but not limited to the Ningbo Historic Museum the Xiangshan Campus the Chinese Academy of Art she's done the preservation and renovation of the Southern Song Imperial Street the Fuyang Cultural Complex she's also worked at the renovation of the Huikun Village and the Lian Historic Museum it's a very long list that I will not get into because you know of course we've asked our speakers to focus on a small number of different projects but of course their portfolio is very rich and quite deep so I invite you all to look at that in your own time I do want to lift up and call your attention to her recognition in the field she was awarded the Shelling Architecture Prize in Germany and an Honorary Award at the Venice Biennial in 2010 she's been listed among the RIBAs 2015 fellowships she was the recipient of the 2019 Gold Medal of Tao Sigma Delta and she's also very involved in service in preservation and recently as the juror for the UNESCO Asia-Pacific Awards for Cultural Heritage Conservation we're very pleased to have Lou when you with us and without further ado I'll turn over the virtual podium to her she's going to be speaking in Chinese and will be translated by one of her assistants who is next to her right there so thank you both for joining us I'll turn it over Can you hear the presentation? Yes, it looks great, thank you Thank you, Jazz Today in this lecture I would like to talk about two projects we completed in parallel one in the city and the other in the countryside What can architects do for the future I would like to talk about two projects we completed in parallel one in the city and the other in the countryside What do architects do for the future How do we do it and do we have a choice What is the future of the city What is the future of the city What is the future of the countryside What can we change These are also the questions we need to think about before we start the project The Southern Song in Pearl Street a main street built for the capital of the Southern Song dynasty it has a history of 800 years It was in a state of broken and disrepair I will talk about the main strategy we used when we designed this project During this project, we introduced some unusual concept of historical street preservation. We believe that all of what formed from Southern Song dynasty until today belongs to the history, and anything valuable should be protected. It was not suitable to choose a style from a certain time in history and to adopt it in the entire street. This is the common practice before we started this project, how the government treated all the other streets. We eventually influenced the local government's decision making. We should preserve everything as we could. We did a lot of research, investigation and planning. We suggest the government to only make new buildings instead of fake and tick. And design small buildings of the right scale in the right place. To re-establish new street forms to revive the whole neighborhood. We tried to reconnect the local culture in an innovative way. These photos show what we did in this project. In order to maintain the diversity, we invited 24 groups of architects from multiple architecture schools and institutes to join the design. Our studio was responsible for designing the entire streets with buildings up to two-story, including some small buildings, paths and water systems. We introduced water into the street and increased the number of trees to change the small environments and micro-climates of the street. In order to maintain the daily life of the locals, we proposed that the residents of the existing streets should not be forced to be removed. These projects later influenced the government to develop a new policy instead of forcing the residents to move out. They encouraged those who are willing to move out and allow those unwilling to preserve their homes to follow their own wills. In fact, this strategy was very successful. However, it made the design and implementation more difficult than usual. So these photos show during the construction, the life still goes on. This project started in 2007 and finished in 2009. This project started in 2007 and completed in 2009. 15 years later, those design methods, renovation strategy and concept have further influenced decision-making of many government authorities and architects across the country. Have influenced many policies of different governments. The second project is about the renovation of Wenchun Village. Wenchun Village is a typical and inconspicuous little village away from the city within two hours' drive. This is before the renovation. Before the old village was demolished and built this kind of new buildings was shown in the picture. We designed a new village after we participated in this project, how to design and build a new village and how to protect and renovate the old village and how we can sustain the culture. The strategy we adopted at the planning level to continue the old village fabric and density. The old buildings are preserved while the awkward new buildings built by the villagers have been demolished and rebuilt. The new village on the other hand is a continuation of the form that grow out from the old village. Furthermore, cars could drive through every household is equipped with one parking space provided a necessary condition for the new way of life. At the architectural level we persuade the local government to change the land use policy and add an additional courtyard to each new built house in the village. To avoid over conceptualization of the design we developed 24 types of courtyard house variations corresponding to the rich and diverse lifestyle. The building materials were all sourced locally and the local building techniques were used. So that the local craftsmen naturally joined the building process. The most interesting is that from the beginning of the construction the neighboring village began to imitate our material and building techniques. So during the process we actually applied a new method through three steps. Step one we use a professional urban construction team to implement the construction of new village at the fastest speed with high quality stands and quickly establish a tangible example for the villagers. This is the built new village. So step two during the construction and the renovation the professional construction team was responsible to organize and guide the local villagers to implement construction in order to teach them how to build. So this photo shows the status before the construction. So on the right side of this photo shows the step two. So the left side is the step three. So the step three is that the other villagers will use the construction drawings we designed to build their own house which will complete by then. So the step three is still in progress. So the result is still unknown. We are looking forward to see the complete of step three. Thank you. Thank you so much Lou when you for that amazing presentation and for putting on the table the whole question of working with with with local government to change land use policy as you rethink the ways in which you deal with traditional architecture and vernacular architecture which is of course part of a major aspect of historic preservation. How do you preserve that and and and move it forward. Super interesting that again tremendous amount of overlaps here between the the previous presentations that will get over in our discussion session which is coming right up. But first we have our last presenter. So we are going to turn now to pay way Chloe, who is a Chinese Canadian born in Fuzhou, who grew up in North America and traveled more than than 50 countries and regions. And she has a tremendous international perspective, which really informs her research into digital technologies for conservation interpretation and dissemination of cultural heritage. She is the creative director of Tsinghua's Heritage Institute for digitization. She is the vice president of RE International Center for digital creativity, and the founder of FX cultural and creative studio, and to be continued. She has working experience in various public and private cultural institutes for international and national projects. In 2017 she returned to China to join the digital Yang Mingyuan project led by Professor Guo Daihing of Tsinghua University, and that's when she began her affiliation with Tsinghua's Heritage Institute for digitization. Of course the Yang Mingyuan is known to everyone around the world for being destroyed by French and British troops, and known to everyone also is Victor Hugo's famous denunciation of that act by the French and the British against his own government, which led him to have to go into exile in fact all of his criticism of his own government. So that will be known to many people because of that, and of course the work that she's done to restore that digitally has been really groundbreaking and gives us access to what that garden was before that destruction. Currently she's responsible for the full circle of experience design and content research and value assessment to artistic interpretation and technical implementation of these interpretive projects, she's also in charge of international communications in exchange. She is one of the core developers of the digital exhibition system for cultural heritage and has participated in designing, developing and implementing more than a dozen national patents and original content. In 2021 very recently she founded the FX cultural and creative studio, which is dedicated to sustainability and the use of cultural heritage assets, according to the current needs of people in places, resources and knowledge so without further ado, I'm going to turn the virtual podium over to Pei Wei Yi. Thank you. Thank you so much. Can you hear me. Yes, we can hear you. Okay, perfect. So, I, I'm just going to quickly share the screen. Well, good evening and good morning everyone, no matter where you are right now in the world.  So, I will try to make this as interesting as possible so there was me a little bit more longer. And again, I want to express my gratitude once more for inviting me to this venture colloquial and to join this very inspiring part of the conversation. And I think for the past. All the panelists that we had previously. We heard a lot of perspective from the architects from the creators and the interpreters of the space where the space and the building is acting as a median and the moderator in the sense to bridge in between the past and the present. And also the amplifier for the local characteristic and the heritage and coming from background as a curator and interpreter also a storyteller. I want to shift the focus a little bit more towards someone who inhabit and operates in a heritage space and then how do we using content and experience driven methodologies to revitalize in that space and also to contribute into the community building and then identity building and then just to forming the bomb between people and then also to encourage the conversation between individuals using heritage as as a tool. So, but nevertheless that we should start with something and someplace that's concrete. So let's begin with this photographs I believe that if you followed just by a little bit about the past Winter Olympic which actually was very recently and then today is actually the opening of the Paralympics Winter Olympics so amazing event. And you probably came across a photo shoot like this and then varied striking images of a slender figure of the athletes, just flying very light air, and then agile, almost. And. Wow, again, see in the background against in the background is a very rigid and then the also varied robust concrete structure coming from the industrial, you may first wonder as an industrial site and then that's actually causing many people to to wonder and then almost let me clear it out that this is not a nuclear plant. But what you're looking at if we zoom out a little bit is one of the largest industrial heritage remains of one of the, well the largest still plant in China, if it's not in the world, and we can see it from this, this aerial view that the big air show go, which is the structure that's built for this winter Olympic is located at the down lower left corner, where it's basically adjacent to four cooling towers and in front of that you will see a large pile that was used as a cooling facilities for the still and iron making process. And next to it on the other end of the pond you'll have the National Center for winter training, which is turning also adapt and reuse project from the previous factory line. And then you also got the winter Olympic committee where they work at the varied towards the northern end of the of the park and then right now and then you also see it in towards the it's really like a green mountain, and that's the Shenzhen mountain and also give the name to the district, and then beside it is also the river so the yongding river that's basically embracing the entire site, and so it's a very unique combination of nature and industrial heritage. And what we've seen is actually only one fourth.  And if we wanted to get some perspective, it's about 2.5 times of the central park in New York. And if we zoom out a little bit more, putting the context of the city of Beijing, where you can see right now is that Shogun Park is located at where on the map circling in red. And that is on the west extension of China Street, and which is that big avenue that runs in front of the Tiananmen Square. And where you can see that at the center of course is a historical center of Beijing, and then just spreading it from the center you see and forms cross like which actually it's the axis that defining the city, and you see the north and the axis that runs on the north and the east direction. And that's actually the historical central axis, by the one that's in the progress of the destination of heritage, UNESCO heritage site. It's along this axis. But then we also see one that's running west and east on that direction and on the on, and this direction is where being designated as the economy. And then also the cultural axis of Beijing, and where you can see that on the, the east far end. And that's where the new administrative capital of Beijing, where all the admins and the government sectors they're moving towards that new town. And then on the west is where we see that a new landmarks of the capital of cultural revival, which is the Shogun Industrial Heritage Park. And so, basically, under this entire new urban, overall urban master plan of revitalizing the west end using culture as a catalyst. And we actually being invited to Shogun and then as one of the catalysts. And what we've been given is basically one of the silo space located at the very northern end, and if you can see it from the, from the legend down at the bottom left corner, and where I put that golden pin there. And that's where, so basically it's just adjacent to the Winter Olympics where, and then also very close to what we call the Five Ring, and they have the, the, the metros running around it. And so this road of Silo is actually among the first build structures on the side of Shogun. And then, but the Silo itself right now is built in 1992, and then it's pure concrete structure that's used to store raw materials before they going into the smothering process. And so, here it's a, it's a very interesting space, where you can also see from the inside that the space has undergoes a little bit of renovation and also rehabilitations. Because of its adjacent to the Winter Olympic, Winter Olympic venue, that this entire road of Silo's are dedicated to the golden sponsors of Olympic Games. And you can see it, that the first two are the, actually the 5G broadcasting studio of the Tenzing Sports. And then next to it's a big data bank for the data restoration, and then after that you see and passports, and then also there's the Bank of China. So, this is actually a very creative, it's a sewhold zone, where all the, all the golden sponsors of the Olympics are situated, and they're working creeks on site as well, but all of the site, all of other Silo's has been renovated. And the interior has been changed to adapt the new functions as office space, but only Silo 4 remains its original structure. So you can also see from here that it's actually divided into, if we can't using the concept of floor, then the first floor is actually the heritage space where it's kept its original concrete structure. And then the second level and the third level, it's all built on a cantilever structure, which allows the bottom level to be basically structural free, so that it's not supporting the floors above and the floors are hanging up from a very huge steel structures on the ceiling. And then, so those two floors are added to giving more useful space within the Silo's, but it does have a striking interior atmospheres towards compared to all of the rest. And this is actually the only Silo that's been kept in its part of it, been kept of its original condition that's open to the public on the side of Chauvin Park at the moment. And so when we first get into the space and then what we were envisioned is to use it as an incubator and also as something that we will be able to use it as a studio, but also running tests. And because I mean we've been really straight focused in the field of digitizations, the integration between digital technology and culture heritage. And we know that some of the things that we do is quite new. And in order to persuade the stakeholders to proceed on this particular direction, there is more proof than we needed than just a PowerPoint or like a good story. So approach type is very important to us. And not only so, but we are also particularly interested in the relationship between the audience and the contents. And so basically using a 2C mindset to dealing with exhibition content and not using the narrations from upper above, but trying to connect it with the audience and to see what exactly are they looking for in an exhibition like this. So we're basically trying to utilize in the space by three major parts, I mean the functions, functional wise, by using it as a digital creative experience center, where people can come in and then they can try new things. And but also as a community service where we will using it as a platforms and the bridge to bridge in different disciplines, and then to bridge in different fields, so that they have a space where it's not that rigid, but it actually encouraged creativity and open-mindedness. And last but not least, and this is one of the very important function where we're using it as a R&D collaboration and also project incubations. And then, and because our close relationship with the audience, we are actually able to run much frequent user evaluations, and then to get direct feedbacks from the people that we encounters. So, so compared to many of other projects that we've done, no matter is the library, I mean the museum projects or the historical projects or adapt and reuse projects. The things that we try in the silos are or the center that we're talking about the international centers for digital creativity. It's much more experimental, if we can say it. And we're trying to using a lot of things we're trying to actually experiments on installations and on different artistic representations we're trying to experiencing on working with irregular forms. And then also you can see that this is how the interiors are for that the heritage space that it has a concrete comb at the bottom of the cell. And then this is actually really interesting things because this is a storage barn as we know. And then so the iron ore and the raw materials, other raw materials, they're actually been loading from the top. So this can, this entire cell is free of windows, there's no windows, except for a loading dock from at the top. So there's opening at the top. And then they were through the, through the raw materials down. And then. So one of the reason being that for the ironed melting process. There's actually a very strict, quite a strict standards in terms of the size and mass of the raw materials. So, but many of the raw materials during their transportation, they are self flammable so they have to be on the open cartridge on the train and which often causing the material to clot. And then so they need the gravity to basically shatter those material once again and then having this shape at the bottom of the cell actually helps the basically the material to fill the space better in terms of the mass and the volumes. And you can also see that there are really like metal plates that's on those cones. And just imagine that this water, pouring down from the top of the, and the water were basically DV is routes. And it's the same thing that goes with goes with the raw materials. And so you can see that we're trying to do a lot of artistic installations and then representations here. And just to the way that we can do in terms of story in terms of narrating in terms of visual representation of the of the cultural heritage and this is the one that a text run that we did for one of the 40 scenes in the film. And this is willing transfer. Basically, I think, directly, deriving from the very famous poetry, Taohua Yanxi, and a photo of peach flower, peach blossoms. So, we've been working with lights and sounds and then also a very calligraphy and then almost like painting sort of representations, instead of a very realistic rendering of the site, and to see how to give, how to represent the sites, can we give another layer of storytelling that help people to better conceive that ideas. And then there's also a top level which it's almost on the other. And so it's almost like divided from the bottom, bottom space, where we will be able to host many activities, and having a close relationship with with the audience. So, just to quickly shows a little bit so that you can actually walk. So you can see the exterior of the silos. And people actually, this isn't how we're getting to it so basically you're going from the outside. And then the entire space is circular and this is basically the heritage space where you can see that it's, we believe it as it is so this is a completely untouched and then just from its original conditions. And then so, and also just to take advantage of that natural where they don't have light. And we turn the exterior into immersive space where we can, I mean the audience can appreciate the original texture and the spatial experience. But also, the extra information is the digital layer which lay on top of that, of the really intricate space and then we're trying to generate something that's almost like creating a dialogue between the actual physical space and content that's projecting on top of it. And previously, you can see that there is the one thing where there are rocks falling down from that. And that's why that's one of the programs that we're generating using digital to imitating the previous function of this single but in like a more creative way. And just to help the people understand what the original function of this has been. So all the content that you see right now is some of the other exhibition that we did and transferring our previous research results into the experience that can be facing the public inside. And we did the one with the evening and and you can see that in the previous there, there is like a big water mill almost that's been casting on the the cone and that's actually one of the thing that we did for the water structure of the building and also the one that we did for the center axis of Beijing. So we did a lot of experiments on that, you know, experiment the idea about digital twins, and also to stepping a little bit further into how do we implementing the digital content, to be taking advantage and then off the space but also working with the limitation of the space to making the content versatile and then trying to figure out a best practice for narrating and seeing how people responding with a different method that we telling the stories. So, while we've been invited into the park has been over about two years now, and then we actually bring many big culture IPs into the west end of the cities, but again again we're coming back and thinking that it will be invaluable and then it also be necessary for us to explore exactly the value of the location itself, because it is unique as it is I mean, and they also give that give that. How did you put it, it's that the rights of being here, I mean the existence the rise of this existence. And then so that's why at the one year anniversary of our, the founding of our center. We launched the project of having a special exhibition exhibition dedicated to the content of show. And then so the interesting thing is that we know that it is a huge, huge complex and then we know that it has a very, very long history and but it's that the more we know about it, then the more that we understand that it's, it's so much more than just, just a still plan. It's so much so much more. I mean, the complex. Starting out from a very, very little still plant and then actually it's iron plant at the time it doesn't have the capacity of making still back in 1919. So it just celebrated its centennial anniversary three years ago. And so, during that process, it went through a war and went through social turbulence, and it becomes one of the first manufacturing to back in work after the war. There are two making productions and then at first it couldn't, but then there's also endeavors making in technical advancements. And so gradually it runs from a very small iron factory to one of the top in China that can easily produce 8 million tons of stills per year. And also be one of the first to to launch its own stock. And also one of the first to have its own bank and to basically managing the entire entire company using the modern management system. And also went through a lot of and it's also the testing ground for many of the really renewal reform in terms of business modeling and everything like that. And so when people working in it's not just a factory. It is a society where you can see that the service they have ranging from education so from kindergarten all the way to college. That's like a technical specific college that trains workers that can going back to either the steel factory or metro system, which has been extremely popular by then, they have their own set of supplying system, which means that they actually owns farms. They owns farms, they owns ochars, they owns basically farm in the sea actually so they have their first hand resources of many of the products, and they only serve to their own workers. They also have real estates. So the, the basically the company deval realistic around its plan to for the for their workers, and they not only have realistic they also have retirement homes. They have hospitals and grocery stores and everything basically and the entire different set of entertaining systems, where it's just serving their own own workers. So, after learning all this and then it started realizing that this is, this is a society, this is a society that has influencing many people many people spend their lives in it. And for a company as big as this, it's in a role that it's involving so tightly with the history of the country, and especially that it's the steel production, and it sees its products feed into all the major, major constructions that's happening in the world, as well as around around the entire country. So, the rise of the company is inevitable, but also the, the, the, the turning point is also very dramatic, in the sense that it is Olympic, believe it or not, because when Beijing first owns the rights and hosted the 2008 Olympics, the entire issue of environmental environment, friendly and then also about the clean air and everything being brought to the table and of course a big steel plan like this is a lot. It's a pollutant, and then it's a source of pollution so then that leads to one of the largest migration of a singular factory and then that despairing to all over the country, there are people that's moving out of the cities, and there are thousands of families, their lives are changing. And then, but at the same times, Shogun is also producing the, at the same time they're also producing the materials that goes into all the major structures for the Olympics back in 2008. It's a very moving, it's a very moving history if you look into it, and then how it was much wanted, and then no longer wanted, but then again become a new source of inspirations at this turn of the count, at this turn of the century, where the winter again chosen aside, and then bring back all the lives, and then give it another phase, and then now it's basically one of the examples of social urban renewal, and also industrial renewal. So when we look at this, and we started realizing that our audience is going to be complex. It's not just, you know, for people that's new, but it is a contemporary heritage where much of the people who are involved in its entire history are still alive. And there are various stages of their lives. And then, but there are also people who would never know, don't know about it because it move out if you're more after that, then you probably don't remember of seeing still mill in Beijing. So, when we're doing our audience, basically, the audience profile at the very beginning we're considered this as something that's long time no see, but also nice to meet you. So I think that there are people going to find this gorgeous for the concept, but there are also people that come in to learn about the new things. What we're trying to do is to create a common memories for them to generating a platforms or like a foundations where they can start the conversation. So some of the strategy that we do, and then it's quite interesting now to think about it. It's one of the is actually this is actually one of the very first. We mentioned a threat that we did, and we basically releasing it on the May the fourth, which is the youth day, the celebrating of youth, and we, we made, we make a small comic. And I also mentioned that I can post a link in the, in the diagram and so that you can, you can have a look at it. So, this is basically a small where we make a avatar. We basically we creating a character, but we intertwining his life with the rise and fall of the company. So he is also experienced as he grow older. It's also that where he's, he's feeling confident, the company's as we're rising, where he feels lost and then stress, there's also a parallel is making between a human being and the fate of the company. And this is a way that we're trying to, you know, bring people to feeling the warmth of the content. And what is interesting of the result of this one is that we receive a very enthusiastic respond. And then from people that's coming from all over the age. And then this is when we're realizing that we've been thinking about the nostalgia part too easily. Because depending on when, when debate involving into get involved into the, into the, into the story, they're actually having different mindset. So then, basically, they can have very proud responded to us a story, but they can also have a bit of sweetness of feelings. So this is also that when we start to realize that we need to get something. Not as a statement, but as a platforms where people can come and then as well I said, they basically they established that comment beliefs and the common knowledge of the, of the content, and then they can basically moving on and then having the space as opportunity where they can generate conversations. It's cross generation conversation between the parents and the kids, it can also be between the grandparents and their children that the story that they have hasn't been talking about. So this is one of the strategy that we do for this particular project. And over time, I see you. Yeah. So I'm actually just going to quickly wrap up then, because the. So what we did is actually I'm just going to run through this. What we did is actually a system where it consider a permanent part and the temporal part of the of the exhibition where the permanent part is the one that we said about setting up that baseline where everyone, the basic idea whether they want to get that fundamental information for them to generate a conversation. So, the one that we did is basically the history of the show on park, but also using the perspective of an iron ward. So we want to take some time for presentation. Yeah, discussion. Do you think you could wrap up and absolutely. I'm just going to wrap up right now. So for that. Basically for the for the entire journey. So this is a way so that they can navigate in through the entire entire complex. And the other part is the temporal part, which we changing monthly and each month we generating a new thing so that people can come in and then using the theme as a catalyst to connect different parts of show going inside the same story. So I'm just not going to talk about the rest because this is this is basically some of the some of the temporal one that we did. And then also the one we did during the during the winter Olympics, but just to show some statistic at the very very end about the approaching so we did and then some of the things that we we may be able to do when we become so close with the audience. Is we can have the statistic to show us how effective is our strategies. And one of the things that we're really feeling delight off is that it does attracts people from a side of the city and then affect in fact that over 70% of the audience are coming from outside of the country, which actually, basically, it's aligned with our strategy of revitalizing this part of the city and then attracting other people from other cities to come to here and experiencing a different kind of vibes here. And that's it. Hopefully, that everyone who's engaging I, I warmly welcome you to our site, and so that I can give you a little bit more about the backgrounds. Thank you so much. Thank you, Chloe. Thank you very much. I'm going to invite everybody that all of our presenters to to turn their screens back on. So we can turn over to our conversation we we now have about half an hour left. First of all, just thank you all for these amazing presentations that there's just so much there and that to unpack. I know it's late for you. So I appreciate you, you know, staying up late into the night. I think it's almost 1am in the morning. So again, thank you. So many themes that are linking up over here. In terms of your practices and I want to also return to some of these, the larger context in which all this work is happening right like we have become accustomed to thinking about architecture preservation. And architecture in China as as new construction but what you are showing us is the possibility that preservation is now at the heart of a of a new thinking about development about new thinking about not only urban development, but community and a kind of development that is not reliant upon necessarily a tabula rasa, you know, clearing the ground and starting anew. I wanted to turn to Wang Hui of very quickly because you laid out this idea of a critical involvement and become as becoming you know that there is this sense of, of understanding heritage as a continuity I think this was something that came through and all of the projects that that you as designers are deeply involved in the act of taking the past and making it relevant into the for the present. And so, in that there is, there is a questioning of what is the present, what does the present need, and how are you trying to change the present. There was something in your presentation one way that I think resonated with all of the presentations that that really pointed to the fact there's something missing in these historic sites. Many of them have lost their original function, you showed us the temple of the five dragons had no long, you know, there was there wasn't a kind of religious practice that was organized around it anymore and so the water was missing. And so you reactivated it so this question of reactivating through design and reconnecting to to community to me is very important and I wanted to hear a little bit more from you and all of the panelists. I want to talk about the skill sets that you bring to the table to be able to make that connection because of course we always centered design but many of you talked about connecting to community. And certainly in my education as an architect. That was not part of my skill set, you know to understand the methods of working with a community. How did you do that how did you learn that how did you, you know what are you looing you, you were talking about collaborating with other architects, the notion of collaboration so I'll turn it over to one we first to talk about that. How you how you connect with community. And also, tell us more about this notion of spatial justice as a way of, you know, of working. That's a super interesting concept and we want to know how you're, how you're thinking about it. And I'll be reading also please those that are in the audience put your questions and q amp a and I'll be reading them all. Okay. So, very, very critical and a good question. Yeah, so first, I want to go back to spatial justice. You know, like, because we're artists, so we're doing something of spatial spatial is our means of changing the world. We have to use a space or something related to space to change the world.  Justice in the old days is about something else. But today, justice is whether there's fair distribution of resources between, you know, different parties. So this is this kind of fair distribution is more important today, for example. So let's say, you know, China is under the organization and so this is a, you know, re allocation of the interest, you know, profit between different parties. So who is the powerful and with palace, you know, so this is the first thing, you know, artists should be very much sensitive about. So normally, you know, like, for for for instance, you know, like, so it's a big topic. So let's go back to the historical heritage, such as the temple, we work, actually we are continuing working on that. So the temple has its original function, meaning whatever, but all these kinds of minutes are gone. So we cannot go back to the old days. But the table also has its own function today. So this function is not related to its original art. So that's why I think we should use those kind of mental reality, re interpret or to read this kind of thing. Because today, for example, like the villagers, the villagers, they go to the city to as a worker, you know, like to as a construction worker, whatever. So there are no more passes. And after they came back to the village, but they only do their own house, each house is quite big, very wealthy, but then the public space is a leftover. And you know, like, if we want to revitalize this table. So actually, you know, is we played a role of, you know, like re establish a certain kind of justice. So the justice is to make a balance between the private and the big and this public space, if we don't read his door, this public space, and then there's no spiritual center in the village. And when we do this kind of table, so we are not going back to a diet is but actually we are going back to sort of, you know, as a spirit, we want to bring people together. So there are also lots of other means, for example, like I didn't mention, you know, like I persuade it is publisher in China to donate over 1000s of books in the temple.  So then we have a small library there. So we want to invite kids and after school, so they can gather in the temple. So just like their ancestors, you know, like, so they gather in the temple, but they were better in the temple to pray for the rainwater. But now the kids, you know, like, maybe they encountered some great books and then later on, they will not stay in the village.   But this power cannot happen in the private space. I will definitely, you know, this power is a public space. So to restore the heritage is not to go back to its original authentic art, but to create something, make augmented reality or augmented art. So my last word is, you know, according to Ben, you know, like some kind of heritage either has its original value or its displayed value. I think these both are important. And most importantly, you know, we should really establish these such kind of values according to our time to our contemporary needs. I'll turn it over to Lu Wenyu who did a lot of work with the community. There's a question on the Q&A from Zihao Zhang that ties to this, asking, you know, you mentioned that in the Southern Song Dynasty Royal Street project, you promoted local policies to encourage Aboriginal people to stay, well, Aboriginal people, I think he means local residents to stay in, in, at the place instead of kicking them out. And he's asking, did you think of this as a strategy before you started the project, or did this come through the work itself? As you, as you did the project, this idea. So this project is very complicated. So I almost closed our studio after this project. So after the government accepts our suggestion that the locals could stay or move by their own wills, then we accept this project. But we find it's, it is, we made a very big difficulty for ourselves. And so this suggestion before is actually before the start of this project. And so we discussed with the local government a lot about the strategies to encourage people stay or how can we move, how these, how those who are willing to move out, how this strategy could work. For example, what kind of requirements can be given to him, that is, he, he, he, he, he, maybe a bigger place for him to stay in, to stay in other places, to let him stay in this yard, to come out. Because this is a street, we hope he can restore some of the business related, that is, that is related to the industry. And so we could, for example, we will offer a larger house for the people who are willing to move out. And then the, then the house will empty out for some local commercials that which is related to the, the street life. But the old house actually live, many, many families are lived in the old house. And some of them, some of them are willing to stay and some, some of them are willing to move out. So we, we will give the local government some suggestions how to deal with this situation. For example, some, some, some families who are willing to stay will move to the neighboring house, which have some empty place. And so the, also the government knows that the street will be more valuable after the renovation. So they are willing to offer the, offer the people more than usual. And so as a result, almost half of the local residents are willing to move out and moving into the new place. Some of them stayed. And, but, but after the renovation, some of the people moved out actually regret. That's it. Yeah. You know, one of the follow up questions that I have for, for all of you, and but especially Lou when you, and also don't go and maybe I'll turn it over to you is that I mean the projects you all showed were amazing and they are really seemed like the tip of the iceberg. And I wanted to ask you to what degree are these projects in your mind, the exception or the rule of what is happening in China today. The, the, the rebuilding of rural villages, for example, in Lu Wenyu's examples, or Donggong in your in your own work, this project which so it's unbelievable you know this this this industrial relic, you know this this this historic building, which is completely from the images in the middle of nowhere, and is being reimagined for this what looks like a pretty high end hotel, tourist destination. Is this the exception in terms of when you look when you take a when you go look broadly you know what's happening in China today. Is this the exception or do you see a pattern here that this is your part of a of a of a larger movement to rediscover these these heritage sites and to create a new kind of tourist industry within China. Sure, you go first or I can go ahead Donggong you haven't spoken yet and then we can turn it right. Well, based on my personal observation, I do have to say that the situation is undertaking a very dramatic change here in China, because if you go back to, for example, 15 years. When you ask the government or the real estate developer, or some private owner about how they value their trees of the from their old time, for example this building heritage. I think it's not quite a satisfied period of time, because under the tremendous pressure from this drastic urbanization. It seems like people are more interested in this quantity and speed, but this is a situation back to for me it's before the Olympic is about before the 2008, but between 2008 to almost like 2015. My personal experience of dealing with this clients and also the authorities has been. I can sense the change because I guess there are two reasons first of all, first of all, the speed of the development in China is slowing down a little bit. So we have a little bit free space to rethink about what we have done in this urban, including suburban or rural area. And redoing things fits the real comfort and the quality of the regular life. I think that's not only about the architects discussion is the entire social concern from 2008 to 2015. And within the seven or eight years, I think there are some very exact exemplary projects coming out. So it's a small number, but it's very influential. So in the recent 304 years, I feel when when we communicate or negotiate negotiate with the government or client is less and less barrier in terms of how we see the old stuff. So I see a good change, but it's not perfect yet, I have to say each project. Well, I guess it depends on different situation architect is still in a role of this pressure and kind of passive. So what amazed me today from especially from Lu Wenyu's presentation, I think their effort is trying to get deep into this, the mechanism of the revitalization of a place is not the traditional role of design space and form. And I can imagine how tremendous effort and endeavor architects have to pay, but I really appreciate that. And this is something I feel very difficult as my personal practice. 2008 of course was also the financial crisis. And how much of that impacted in your mind, the turn towards preservation. I think that's the reason why the entire economic in China, it's slowing down a little bit. And that might be a good thing in terms of how people value a place of time and building with time. Of course, it's related to the preservation issue. So sometimes it's always good and bad together. I appreciate you focusing on Lu Wenyu's work and I'm going to ask that of everyone on the panel. What did you find was a discovery or a valuable discovery in each other's work? I know you're very familiar with each other's work, but I'm sure today going deep into one of these projects, maybe there was something that stood out to you. So I want to make sure to hear that from you. Okay, should I start first? Of course, anybody? So I've known the most projects from many venues, but actually today I was pretty much surprised by seeing how to make the concrete block on site. So that's part I'm pretty much amazed. And for Lu Wenyu's one, she mentioned when she took the project and she asked the local leader, because this is a history, historically can trace back to the Song dynasty, but she asked them to give her the right not to do anything historically, but everything should be in a contemporary way. And for the last one, because also we mentioned has already diluted my memory of this, but one thing I was very much impressed because when she was doing that kind of stuff digitally, it's not that kind of like a pretty much concrete image, but I remember vividly about that flower, like pouring rainwater or whatever, so that kind of new things about history, so that's something as an audience I would expect. Lu Wenyu. I think today, because I saw Wang Hui and Donggong and this is called back. It's all in the original this is a factory, one is a industrial factory, one is that Wang Hui's that is a history factory, and one of this is also a industrial factory in Beijing. So these two years, because I've been doing this factory in the Asia-Pacific region, this new design and protection, this evaluation, actually I think we've been discussing some of the issues. You go first. And so I saw many projects relate to the industrial heritage, also the cultural heritage from Donggong's project, Chloe's project and also Wang Hui's project, and I'm actually the jury member of the UNESCO Preservation Awards in the recent two years. So we are, well, I'm looking very closely to this kind of project. So the topic of Relate the new designs into the heritage sites is a very hot topic in the recent two years. 我个人认为好的传承应该是基于好的创新的基础之上,只有创新才可以传承. So I think the good way to pass on the culture is only by innovation and creativity. The simple imitation is only a dead end. So I'm very happy to see all the three other architects using their own method to participate into the heritage, also using new materials in a very different way, like concrete blocks, also GRC panels. So I think the good design should take into the last details of materiality, also construction. Thank you. Thank you. I'll turn it over to Chloe to reflect on your panel, the other panelists. Oh, yes, I absolutely second Professor Lou's comment on there has to be innovations in making a longevity of the heritage. And I also particularly fond of Professor Vaughn's last statement about three classification of the three attitude towards heritage structures and then I absolutely found that interesting in a way that I think there is a difference because I I also have an architectural background, but I'm a conservation architect so I was trained a little bit differently in the sense that somehow in this particular field, I felt that people are pulling back a little bit. And it's a more conservative approach. And if you put it nicely, they like to say it's a humble approach where it's less about the personal and then it's more about the heritage, but I think that it's not really whether or not it's a personal statement or not, whether or not you will be able to taking the responsibility of making a critical assessment of that heritage structure, and then making taking the effort of guarantee is a longevity is for the future generations. And that means change, and that is actually going to be a very critical change, not just simply by altering it, or just simply by inserting new materials. And I think one of the questions that I saw in Q&A session where it's addressing and asking about the future of digital preservations. And I think that I also second that, that it's changes needed it's not a mirror imitations of what is left. Digital is never meant to be an exact copy of the physical. It is actually a process of thinking because it is us the human who make those things, we make each single decisions. It doesn't really matter if we build in the reality, or we build in the digital realm, but we are the one that making that choices and we are the ones that's processing all the manifestations. And either the architecture whether or not it's a virtual ones, or a physical one. It is the manifestations of human genius in the sense that if we did not continue if we did not making that expression of our current era. How can we be represented from the future point of view, if we're so timid and setting back. So I think this is something that also in parallel to respond to that particular questions. And it's just that also my greatest respect to all of the panelists, the great masters for having the courage and having that taking the responsibility of stepping forward, of making the attempts, and then of making the active assessments, and to basically contribute in the continuity of the cultural relics. And I've been honored. I feel honored to be a part of this conversation. Thank you so much. You raised the question of responsibility and there's a question from Professor Erica Avrami that dovetails well into that. She asks following on the comments about how the past is instrumentalized by the present. In what ways are architects accountable for transferring certain ideas and values of heritage and knowledge over others through form material and process. How do designers and design practice or reconcile the choices about what is deemed to be significant or not, when not all publics not all members of the community might agree. Donggong, is that something that you would like to take up I mean when there's conflict you know how do you take sides in those interpretations. Have you had experiences like that. Well, I guess this might be relevant to this specific cases. For me, actually each place when you design architecture or there is an intervention for new architecture, it has a line of time already existing. You can see this is the life of a place, no matter it's a building heritage, or it's total, it's nature, it's all the conditions, it's a kind of existing condition. And for me, there's not much the difference when I consider a tree or there's a building because I think the new architecture has to take care of things on the site. But there might be some special cases. This is also my curiosity to one way project, because when the significance of the, the building heritage, it's above a certain level. This might be more complicated factors will be involved. If you if we make a comparison between my project, my building, I have to face is only with 60 or 70 years of history. So it might not be that much classified by government and it's not protected by law. So it's up to the architects decision or the clients decision. And sometimes it's very brutal, I have to say, but we do have some legal freedom to deal with that. So, but the case of one way, which is my personal curiosity, I guess, because that building, as he just presented, is the second oldest building from the Tong dynasty throughout the national history. So it there must be regulations, right. I guess, because this is in terms of the history, the level of the, you know, the importance. It has to be some very complicated procedure that architect has to face. If you want to do some innovation in this very sensitive site. This might not be the answer directly responding to that question but this is definitely my curiosity. I have known this project for a long time and read a lot of articles but still I'm very, actually, I, I appreciate their, the architects. You know, it's, it's a very brave intervention and it must be a lot of fight, I guess, or battle between architects and all the whatever. So, can I take some minutes to answer your question? Yeah, of course. Yeah. Okay, actually, you know, like, this is the biggest criticism, because if this is just an ordinary temple is fine, you know, but this is such a prestigious historical heritage. Okay, so my answer is actually very, very simple.  I never ever read this building in my textbook. But now, simply because maybe, you know, if I say in this way, it was not so trouble for me because of my intervention, then this building turned out to be, you know, many, many people and actually over 100,000 people, you know, visitors, you know, have been to this place after reconstruction of its environment. So this will go back to, you know, like the question of the spatial justice. So I said, what we have done is something retractable. I mean, because we're using this kind of framing system, so it's almost like a set design, if because we do not damage, you know, the foundation that much, you know, and also before we started our construction we do some kind of vertical attack, you know, to see, you know, whether there's something important on the ground and then, you know, we do have where we live, you know, like a foundation for the ground because it's a framing system. So it's just a set design.   So this is just like a set of play in my hand. And then later on, this thing will be removed, and then something will come back. And my biggest expectation is actually totally demolish the war because this war, you know, even go back to the photos in the late 50s, right? Because, you know, this is not original war. This is a war after this building was enlisted as a national historical monument.  But it's not authentic environment, right? The authentic environment is to totally get rid of all of this and then make this building as part of the agricultural field.  So my understanding of our intervention is, you know, it's an empire. It's not forever. Thank you. What, what did, did you want to respond to that? No, no, I appreciate that. Okay, there's just so much here for us to explore and unfortunately, to we've run out of time and unless we want to keep going to a third day of the conference, I'm afraid we're going to have to wrap up and, and this hopefully will be the beginning of many more conversations across the Pacific Ocean, and many more ideas across pollinating. You've put so much on the table. We are just so impressed by your work, so thankful that you, for your generosity to share it with us and to unpack the all the issues in it. We've learned so much from you. And we look forward to, to many more conversations and collaborations between us. Thank you to everyone that attended the conference over, over the, the long stretch of time, over the two many time zones. We appreciate your, your participation. I'm sorry we couldn't get to everyone's questions on the, on the Q&A. There's been a lot of Q&A questions. Hopefully those can be answered later by, by some of the panelists. Once again, just deep gratitude to MoMA, to Martino, to Evangelos for this collaboration. Please everyone go to see the show at MoMA. And, and I hope that, that this, this will just be, again, the beginning of, of much more cross collaboration between our thinking about preservation, about creativity, about the role of architects in heritage, both in the United States and in China. So, thank you so much. I'm going to invite the panelists to stay on the Zoom for a second so we can say a proper goodbye, but I'll let everyone else go in the audience. So have a great day, have a great weekend everyone. Thanks so much. Goodbye. Thank you. Thank you. Goodbye.