Good afternoon everyone and welcome to our briefing this afternoon. My name is Carol Werner I'm the executive director of the environmental and energy study Institute The topic before us this afternoon is how can new transatlantic collaboration? overcome barriers to renewable energy goals. I think our eyes this week have really been focused on Paris and the climate talks the climate summit that is underway there The fact that there have been over a hundred and fifty heads of state that have been there over a hundred and ninety nations participating at this very momentous time in our history and It is a very exciting time and it is also a very sobering time as we all look to see how we best can deal with these enormous issues and problems that are facing our planet our Individual countries and economies as well as looking towards the future and what this means for what kinds of opportunities this also Brings forward as we really seek to solve these problems and create Enormous new promises throughout the world and in every country whether it is a major Developed country industrial nation or a developing nation and so this afternoon We are very glad to be bringing this briefing to you which we are doing in conjunction with the Center for Climate Strategies and This briefing is really focused on looking at how all levels of government whether it be at the national level at the state level at the local level are Important in the both in the European Union as well as in the United States and how can we look to expand collaboration? So that we can more successfully And as technologies have continued to evolve and policies have continued to evolve. How can we more successfully? Build those collaborative Opportunities relationships. How can we do this in a better more successful Way and a way that can help us accelerate The kinds of change that are part of all of the goals that countries around the world are addressing so the Center for Climate Strategies has embarked up on putting together an analysis a report that has been funded by the European Union delegation to the United States To undertake a special look at this topic and so we're going to hear about the formation of that report Why it is being done why it is important some of the areas in which There have been issues Important deliberations and differences You have been tackled and We're going to hear about what this means in terms of people who have been involved in terms of writing the report so I will introduce the three three people who have been involved in the writing of that report those recommendations and then I will then introduce two Two presenters who have not been involved in the report but whose Governments have been extremely involved in terms of moving renewable energy policy Forward in their countries and in terms of looking towards low-carbon economies for their future Commitments and and in terms of looking at how their countries how in their governments are moving forward So I first want to Introduce Tom Peterson who is the president and CEO for the Center for Climate Strategies Tom founded the Center back in 2004 the purpose being to help governments and stakeholders Better understand how to formulate Responses to climate change how to put together State plans that looked at different sectors and how and how best to put together those kinds of initiatives and This has involved developing and implementing a template for these kinds of multiple objective And consensus-based planning because that is also a very important part of how we can help bring our Societies our communities all together and so Tom has worked with many states in the U.S But also with a variety of states in Mexico as well as several provinces in China and so he is Primary in terms of of leading the discussion with regard to this report that is Being formulated then we will hear from hell Nelson dr. Hell Nelson who is a research associate professor the Claremont graduate University in the division of politics and economics and He is also a senior advisor to the Center for Climate Strategies for residential commercial and industrial power supply and has been helping the Center Work with the U.S. States to develop climate action plans for the reduction of of greenhouse gases at the state level and he has done extensive writing on sustainable energy modeling and carbon regulation and and obviously has been key in terms of helping author this report and Then we will also hear from dr. Dale Madaris who is a senior environmental planner with the Northern Virginia Regional Commission and Dale is As I said a senior environmental planner where he leads the Northern Virginia Regional Commission's regional Climate mitigation and energy programs as well he as he has been heavily involved in Northern Virginia's international environmental partnerships and Dale brings Forward in terms of this report and in all of his work. He has a long-standing Role at the local level as well as working then with his Colleagues internationally again looking at that very important local level where so much implementation Happens, so I am not going to turn it over to Tom Hal and Dale Thank You Carol and then welcome today and thanks all of you for joining us As Carol indicated This work has been funded by the European Union delegation the United States and we're very grateful for their support and their partnership and this has actually Been part of a very long-term Exchange and cooperative mechanism between the European Union and the United States involving the transatlantic dialogue Just a quick note about us at the center for climate strategies if you're not familiar with us We're a nonpartisan group. We are a nonprofit and as Carol indicated We have worked in the United States extensively with our states Helping to catalyze and develop the capacity for the implementation of comprehensive climate and energy plans And we're very active doing the same work internationally in other countries this includes a focus on all different sectors of the economy and Approaches that are designed to jointly meet economic energy and environmental needs in a fair and equitable manner And so we're going to focus today on one very critical component of that overall comprehensive process that Nations and states and local jurisdictions go through and that is looking at the electricity supply Sector and more specifically at the renewable energy generation portion of that This report as I mentioned is really an outgrowth of a long-standing transatlantic dialogue and our mission Has been to take a look at how that can be enhanced So that it could really be geared to the future and the sense is that there are now before us Some pretty important barriers that both sides have been grappling with and it's a time when we might take a second look at How we can more effectively work with each other in these very high-priority things that we're already grappling with to see if we might Accelerate and expand the responses we can bring to them in the future and in the case of renewable energy specifically to improve market penetration of renewable energy sources This report that Carol referred to is drafted by Series of counterpart authors in the United States and Europe and it will involve a number of reviewers in both regions as well and people who are involved in government as well as the private sector and other institutions and It is really designed then to raise a series of recommendations on the enhancement of collaboration between The European Union and its member states in the United States and its states and in both regions their localities So we're going to present some key findings about that have come out of the report in some key Recommendations and then provide you some background behind them it's going to focus on a couple of key areas one is the understanding of common ground which is often Misunderstood and overlooked there has been a sense at times that the two Regions have so little in common when it comes to energy issues that it doesn't make much sense to be serious About collaboration. I think we're going to take a look at some reasons to rethink that and it turns out in fact there's a tremendous amount that We have in common that sets the stage for much more effective work together We also have been looking at a common set of challenges regarding renewable energy and they really boil down to three key areas that We will focus on with you today. It's addressing the issue of cost and Bear and the barriers that that creates Barriers to investment and then barriers to technology so cost investment and technology are the three key areas that People who have been working on these issues and both regions have been encountering and working diligently to overcome Individually and at times collectively, but we think there's now an opportunity to pull those interests in a way that's more effective in terms of addressing them and The series of barriers Also include barriers to the form of collaboration that occurs And we think that there is a new format that can be used to enhance that in the context of some of the new Developments in these issues and some of the new developments in exchange and we want to talk a little bit about That with you today as we do so this is focused on renewable energy But it certainly is applicable to other issues more broadly and how we can be a more effective at not only transatlantic exchange and dialogue and cooperation, but Those same activities at a multilateral level that are other countries and other regions So the recommendations include As I mentioned enhancing these cooperative mechanisms with a real strong focus on cost technology and investment Looking very hard at now the use of virtual mechanisms that can rapidly accelerate the matching of counterparts in both regions and Closure of information gaps in the mobilization of technical assistance So that these things happen much more quickly much more fluidly and at a much more focused level and also as I mentioned that it not be restricted to only Europe in the United States the European Union United States, but other regions that can play a synergistic role in this relationship because The issue of global that excuse me the issue of renewable energy is a global one Carol mentioned a little bit about The the meeting in Paris that's underway right now and the climate change issue But one of the very key findings and realizations coming from that process which has been clear for some time is that it's going to be extraordinarily difficult to address the climate change issue and Unless we are vastly more efficient in the way we use energy and move to a global renewable energy platform So the European Union the United States have been leaders in those kinds of transitions, but they're critical to everybody worldwide We also know that this is going to take more than just governments working by themselves This is going to require effective partnerships with third parties effective public private partnerships To ensure that this work gets done in a way that's quick and well done and collaborative and we'll tell you a little bit about what some of the key Aspects of that might need to be going forward in terms of common ground One of the quick places to start is the goals that exist today for renewable generation of Electricity and some of these goals have come along even during the course of this project and They include new goals at the European Union level not only for greenhouse gas emissions reductions But for the expansion and renewable energy use and these are substantial new targets that have been established We have similar targets established by the president in the United States In addition to that as many of you know all of you I presume we are in the United States in the middle of Implementation of a rulemaking for the clean power plan under the Clean Air Act section 111D We'll show you in a moment a little bit about the implications of that But they're quite significant for renewable energy in the United States as well as in European member states and with Localities in both places. There are a series of goals already in place that include Renewable energy and targets and timetables for its expansion going forward. So we already have a wide range of goals in place that relate to renewable energy and More to come either directly or through implication through the United Nations Framework Convention process. That's underway right now We would expect post Paris there will be pretty significant focus on renewable energy and how that can be expanded going forward So we think this report is very timely and the mechanisms needed to accomplish this are also timely and quite vital And I mentioned the clean power plan if you look at the orange line on the top This is one of the ways that we've been able to portray The expansion in renewable energy that is expected as a consequence of the implementation of this rule This is going to vary state by state It's going to be very it's going to vary based on the decisions that the states do but overall This is an energy information administration projection Implications are pretty substantial increase in the use of renewable energy to meet these new carbon reduction standards Similarly the goals that have been established in the European Union include in them very significant implications For renewable energy we can see the increases that are expected under the new goals in green and Similar to the United States The scenario going forward is a very significant increase One of the things we have in common is a tremendous amount of geographic variation Not all member states in the European Union are created equal and not all US states are created equal and one of the ways in which they vary is Energy prices in fact their energy systems and energy structure overall So we see quite a bit of variation this particular set of illustrations is focused on electricity prices And we're going to show you even a little bit further what some of the prices under the hood look like But that diversity has been a tremendous challenge to policy makers as well as technology Providers and investors on the one hand on the other hand that diversity Creates a rich environment for learning and for innovation and for adaptation Going forward to new circumstances that we will face because the variations that we have already Have encompassed a lot of the future challenges that we are expecting and there's a lot to learn from them In the European Union and in the United States We've also faced very significant economic hardship continue to face very significant economic challenges and Policy makers and others in the community of interests around energy issues have been working very very hard on identifying success strategies for Energy at large and clean energy in particular in terms of how that can succeed in the face of economic hardship a lot of work a lot of experimentation a lot of testing with actual instruments of policy and programs and then the renewable energy area and The listing here that we have in front of yours is a set of a half a dozen of the most critical Strategies that have emerged from work in the United States We've been associated with in terms of the way that one selects and designs particular policy actions to advance renewable energy so that they also expand per capita income employment and Economic growth, so we've learned how to do this and how to succeed But we've learned also some things don't work so well and there's some caution associated there So both sides now have learned quite a bit from this whole Experience of economic hardship and one of the founding Purposes of this report was to identify Things that have worked in both countries in the face of the economic hardship and to use them as a platform For moving forward because it is at the top of the list of common ground variables that policy makers have We've seen growth in renewable energy we are expecting more growth in renewable energy It has grown in spite of numerous barriers There are yet, you know greater barriers in the future But the scale-up projections in terms of need and opportunity are very significant in both places As I mentioned before there are these three fundamental fundamental barriers Under which a series of other things fall that have been in the way of the successes that we would really like to have and they result And they include cost technology and investment and as you can imagine these are interrelated So to take a quick look at the cost issue and some common ground there We're going to look in the United States and Europe at what renewable energy costs or what its price tag looks like in various Forms in comparison to conventional sources of power generation and What we see pretty quickly when we look into these comparisons is that already today Renewable energy has become quite cost competitive Renewable energy prices and costs have been falling in some cases They are now more competitive on a pure cost and price basis than conventional alternatives and that trend is deepening and It is expected to continue and has very significant implications Here is a quick shot for the state of Virginia my home state That came out of a speech from the president of Appalachian power earlier in October who was breaking the news to Shareholders and others about the realities of new investments in energy and these are where the prices stood I think this was October 17 or 28. I forget which in the state of Virginia in terms of the price tag associated with purchasing energy from different sources so we can see in a coal state that Wind and gas in particular have really accelerated in terms of being Cost competitive and this is not a unique situation We see in Europe similar trends and similar breakdowns What we see is this slew of generation technologies that are renewable and then those that are fossil based And there's a lot of variation. This is a snapshot But what you can see just as we've seen in the United States is already a number of the critical technologies for renewable energy are Either close to being cost competitive or past that point and are fully competitive now So when we talk about cost and what we do to try to bring cost Barriers down One of the things that's helpful to do is understand What those costs really are comprised of and we put them in two loosely defined categories that we call hard cost and Soft cost imagine hard cost is the cost of acquiring the technology Soft cost is the cost associated with putting it in place in various arrangements, whether it's citing an approval Financing etc What we know is that those cost profiles have changed Significantly where there have been focused efforts on bringing costs down and particularly on what we call the soft cost side and That creates a tremendous opportunity in terms of peer learning So people in the United States can learn from people in Europe who've had success in Bringing this very important component of cost down. So there have been very specific Tests of instruments and approaches to do that and a lot learned in a lot of success stories But we certainly have the ability to understand more clearly How to go about bringing costs down and to learn from each other as a means for doing that Investment mobilization is a major need Policy doesn't work unless it has investment associated with it and they are related Policymakers are reluctant generally to move forward with new policies unless there's some assurance that those can be financed And it's clear that governments alone are not capable of Supporting the financing that is going to be needed for a new generation and an expanded generation of clean energy And as a consequence focus on investment barriers and investment mobilization Has already been quite critical and will continue to be one of the most critical Parts of this conversation. I think so far what we've seen in Paris is that that in fact has dominated The commentary by heads of state and others what to do about the funding issue The cost gap issue is certainly a key one that we've just talked about We've also talked about economic hardship It's had negative effects in terms of reducing absorptive capacity for these new technologies and also stifling Some of the prioritization of it on the other hand it has resulted in innovation and adjustment that is creating a new platform For activity we've also seen shifts in policy and economic shifts that have not favored investments in renewable energy In ways that they might have but though those shifts are continuing And I think part of what we'll talk a little bit further about is how policy actions can actually Help those shifts now move in the direction that encourage and favor Investment and we've seen competition for scarce dollars a lot of competition for energy related dollars And as everybody knows a lot of those dollar bills have gone into oil and gas And there's been a concern that that squeezed out dollars that could have gone into renewable energy or energy efficiency But it's a longer story and it's one that's changing because the risk in return profile of renewable energy is Starting to look more favorable and there are ways in which it can be made even more favorable than it already is There are also ways that we can do a better job of developing Mechanisms for financing that are better tuned to policy needs and this Combination of looking at policy and investment at the same time bringing policymakers investors and the actual end users of these Technologies together looks like it may be one of the most critical forms of collaboration That can help turn things in a favorable direction Technology remains as always a very important part of the equation. It is directly related to cost It's also directly related to investment and some of the key aspects of technology that are critical in renewable energy Whether it's on grid or off grid involve the integration with the grid the expansion of Efficiency and productivity and design of transmission lines plus the access that connects renewable sources with the grid storage systems remain a very major issue going forward and the ability to generate a Renewable energy from various technologies at a level that's efficient enough to match the cost needs and the scale-up needs of Implementation remains a very critical challenge And with that I'm going to turn to dr. Nelson who will have a little bit closer look at a number of these issues and How we can understand them. All right, thanks Tom and Carol Appreciate the opportunity to come out here from sunny, California, and it's not snowing. So I doubly appreciate that When Tom, you know got me in involved in this project I was super excited because we have these jurisdictions in the u.s. California Texas New York That are world leaders like Germany like other members of the European Union and there's so much that we can learn from each Other and help diffuse these best practices in these experiences across Jurisdictions and so that's what got me really excited about this and so I'm going to talk to you more about some of the policy bear policies that have been successful in reduce reducing these barriers and Briefly and then I'll turn it over to Dale and he'll he'll talk about how these exchange mechanisms can work to help diffuse these lessons learned in these this information So we see essentially three primary areas for collaboration on this cost issue on Investing and on the technology and so these are kind of there's some subcategories here Let me see if my pointer works a pointer doesn't work on this screen. So I'll just have to just yell I guess and So this is this is the overview and so briefly going to talk about some of the What's considered the most important policies to drive renewable energy in in both jurisdictions and in the US It's certainly been the production tax credit so if you look at one policy that's helped the wind industry the most it's probably this one and it's Evidence by this kind of boom and bust cycle that you see when the when the tax credit scheduled to expire Investment goes way down and so that's kind of the counterfactual. You think wow This is has been a really important policy And I think the question now is moving forward is how do we learn from the US experience and the European experience? especially on these production tax credits to reform these type of policies to be more economically efficient and more sustainable during downturns and It's counterintuitive, but you'd think that this type of a policy would be less important during a downturn But it's actually more because more important because you see the difference between gas for example natural gas generation and renewable generation increase as demand goes down and so You need you know something to fill that gap even more during during recessions and so this has been a really critical policy and And something that you know we need to better understand across jurisdictions Similar to the investment tax credit. This is this this policy is kind of single-handedly been Assigned as driving the growth in distributed Photovoltaic so rooftop solar Particularly and you can see how a 30% tax credit when you've got a really high cost like 2008 high cost high capital cost Is worth a lot more than as these capital costs have gone down and The problem with this policy is it is cyclical So the demand for these tax credit drives up as businesses don't have tax liabilities during bad times And so what happens is to attract investors you get these Tax equity investors and they have higher rate of return requirements And so it ends up raising the cost of the installed project when you have you know nine or ten percent Loan on the on the system And so there's other ways around this but I think that the key here is that this This policy mechanism really driven the third-party ownership model I don't know does anybody in the room have a solar panel on the roof Okay, a couple and so you know you have an opportunity now to actually lease that System from someone else and so they own it the developer owns it and you get they get the tax credit And that has really lowered the capital costs and made Solar rooftop solar competitive with grid you know grid electricity prices in a lot of states In Europe we're seeing we see a lot more policies around feed-in tariffs and feed-in premiums and The premium you can think of is just kind of a bonus on top of whatever the market price of electricity is that the renewable developer gets the renewable project proponent gets and California and the EU are moving more towards a kind of competitive bidding and so what this is basically auctions To help increase economic efficiency and improve the performance of these Instruments in terms of not giving overly generous subsidies to the renewable developers So there's all kinds of opportunities for collaboration here, especially between California and European States in terms of how to how to set up these bidding markets So you most of you are probably familiar with renewable portfolio standards Those are more common here in the United States And these are really critical during recessions as well because Demand dries up for renewables during recessions and when you have this type of a standard The the law is basically telling the utilities that they need to provide a certain amount of Certain percent of their power be renewable to the to what they deliver and so we've seen Big jumps in these renewable targets in recent years, especially California and New York just last week I think and Vermont and Hawaii or other large have large targets So Tom showed you that graph about the hard cost versus a soft cost and in the report We break that out and one of the big differences between Germany and the US in terms of Germany has a much lower soft cost portion And one of the biggest components of this is customer acquisition costs and so it's marketing It's like how do you get new customers? And so one of the these kind of new programs Here to try to reduce these customer acquisition costs are these group purchasing and so basically what happens there is where a Neighborhood Association or some community basically goes out and says hey We want you know solar on these 20 or 30 or 50 homes and then they get bids from From solar developers to do that and so you get economies of scale you get these reduced Customer acquisition costs reduced interconnection costs and whatnot So this is a really promising new approach and that will help lower I think these soft costs in the US and you know will help us kind of learn from our from our European colleagues and then Tom mentioned as well the the need to attract additional investment and Historically the unless you're a tax equity partner in one of these tax schemes There hasn't been a lot of opportunities for institutional investors to invest in renewable energy And what we're seeing now is some new securities that basically take the cash flows from renewable projects and Securitize them and their exchange traded and so now you can you can actually go and buy these things yourself And what that does is it brings in a huge pool of money? And what that money has been doing and what this graph shows these are mergers and acquisitions in 2014 of renewable energy Projects and so that institutional money is looking for projects and so this is a really critical Development or to reduce the cost of financing for renewable projects by opening up a whole new source of supply of money essentially and this is a graph from California and so this has to do with the technical aspects of Renewables where renewables the Sun doesn't always shine sometimes clouds come in the wind doesn't always blow And so that gives the grid managers of problems in the sense that they have to provide a certain voltage across the grid at all times well within a certain band and so Integrating these renewables into the grid is a major challenge and it's one of the one of the reasons that renewable Output doesn't fetch the same price as the electricity from like a coal plant or a gas plant because the gas plant can say hey for sure we're going to deliver you this power in this at this hour and You know, it's harder for renewable the projects to do that and so here's an example from California where you see You know the blue line in the middle at the top of the middle there. That's Actually that you can't see that but the 2013 is essentially The blue line and that shows the net load the net demand for electricity in a region in California And you can see how that that net demand in the afternoon in the kind of the middle of the graph It says hour there at 12 p.m That net demand is going to drop as solar keeps coming more and more solar keeps coming into the grid in California So that hey that sounds great, right? But then if you look over on the right and you see that steep Slope up basically what the state what the grid managers need are what they call flexible resources that can come online essentially instantaneously to meet the demand as the Sun goes down and So that's why California has authorized about 1 to 1.2 gigawatts of storage capacity and so this is coming in in different ways battery storage and Railroad cars that they you know, they send up the hill during that night And then they bring them down slowly to generate electricity all kinds of interesting Technologies, but that's essentially the the technical problem that you face when you have a large amount of renewable energy in the system And so these are some of the these are some of the kind of opportunities for diffusion across the jurisdictions a kind of learning That that this that we can hope for from this exchange Mechanism of what we need and then finally I do a lot of work on transmission lines and other energy infrastructure Sighting and so if you've followed the Texas story, it's been this kind of miracle story about They've cited I don't know 20,000 megawatts of wind or something in the last 10 years And it's really only been possible because they spent $7 billion building transmission lines And before you know that before the transmission lines were in place They had to shut off the wind power when the wind was blowing too strong. They'd have to disconnect it It's called the curtailment and so if you're a renewable developer that you hate that right and in California they have a spot market and so when you get in these negative prices basically you have to pay to put your wind power onto the grid and so then The the operators will curtail or stop that that feed into the grid and so, you know Especially for wind and for large for large renewable Projects you need to have adequate transmission. The problem is nobody likes transmission lines Well, except for the utilities because they make money on them But if you're a resident, you know, you these high voltage power lines are associated or often associated with significant health and safety issues and so In count in Texas. They had a great very open transparent public participation process where they actually included these citizen concerns into the design and the and these routes and they Power lines to 3600 miles basically added 20% more of the distance in order to help meet the community requirements and so they were very react very Responsible for citizen concerns and so this this but this transmission line Availability is really a critical issue and one of the things that we can definitely learn from each other about so at this point I'm going to turn it over to Dale for his ideas on On transatlantic collaboration Thanks. I know you've reached we've reached the halfway mark and we have two more speakers So I'll be very very brief Plus I know that the joy and the benefit of these kinds of Conversations as having input and a dialogue with you the audience About that which we're we've shared with you the conversation in Paris has touched on this very very critical issue of cities and how vital they are in terms of mitigating the Emissions of greenhouse gases but also coping with the effects of climate change sea level rise storm events and and the like and as the Conversation strengthens about the the role of cities and other sub-national governments states regions Invariably the question then is going to be well, how do these entities work with each other and part of the dilemma that Has Compounded the problem of international collaboration at the sub-national level has been this Very very inadequate slow process of information and technical assistance. What do we mean by that? Of collaboration by cities is these soft cultural exchanges it's event-based and it's often lacking in outcomes that benefit whatever jurisdictions take place and the ways of engagement that we have started to look at in the context of this report are starting to evolve into a more strategic way of cities and regions and states Engaging that that lead to benefits that lead to transfers of renewable energy policies of Enhanced collaboration between private sector actors that will help jurisdictions like my own in Northern Virginia, Alexandra or Arlington or Fairfax adopt these lessons go beyond just the rhetoric of the talks within climate discussions towards action and engagement and the The the the court to that and our estimation is developing these problem-focused goal-oriented strategies where the the the technical assistance again is Goes beyond just the talk of the the the elected officials but engages a broader community of technical experts practitioners and commercial representatives Working in renewable energy sectors and in the transportation sector in the land use and the planning sector Over the long term in a very strategic context again going beyond just the one in the case of collaboration between Cities and sub-national governments in Europe How do we go beyond just the one week exchange into a six a twelve and 18 month Conversation that actually yields benefits and and outcomes I guess the way to summarize it is when you're dealing with this global conversation at the sub-national level put yourself in the shoes of the mayor the local energy overseer the the engineer of the You of the utility of the school superintendent ask What am I getting out of this and what can I take back and how can I apply it and that really gets to the oops that really gets to the core of the mechanisms that we've started to identify just one core point is There are legions of opportunities for especially across the Atlantic for institutions like the American Institute of Architects the American Planning Association League of Cities Conference of Mayors to get engaged in this sort of new business model of international collaboration and These are some of the the ways that we've talked about in the paper that we want to activate to take advantage and and Collect input about how to strengthen them today York, I think you're next Yeah Great. Thank you. We're not going to turn to two people who have not been involved in this study at all and And if you could come up, we are going to be hearing from dr. Garrick Mao who is the counselor for energy and climate policy at the German Embassy here in Washington and And he will then be followed by Allison convoy who is the head of energy and environment at the British Embassy So I think what is really important in terms of hearing from these two speakers is as I mentioned at the very outset of the briefing is that in the case of both the Germany and the United Kingdom We have countries that have really been leading the way in terms of what they are doing with regard to looking at ways to drive down Their greenhouse gas emissions to bring renewable energy to the fore in terms of diversification of their power sectors And what's in what has always been important to us is in terms of how they have done it What's been involved? What led to their success? How did they bring their their communities? Their whole governments together in support of this Because we think that there are very very important lessons to learn from this dr. Mao has Prior to joining the embassy worked at the federal at the German federal ministry for environment natural Nature conservation and nuclear safety where he was responsible for climate and energy policy and a variety of international environmental topics and of course he has been an important collaborator in the ministry's development of Germany's energy policies that have been targeted to develop cost-effective Approaches towards greater use of renewable energy and also higher energy efficiency Thank you so much Carol for your introduction. I'm happy to share a few experiences made so far in Germany on the expansion of renewable energies with just our Cornerstone of our energy policy. I should be stated that the policy for renewable energies leads back to the 90s So we didn't start this just recently, but it's a long tradition and we tried different instruments out and basically The most successful instruments so far is the what it's well known The feed and tariff but actually it's a little bit more than just giving a fixed price for renewable energy Production the system works like that. So in Germany everybody who produces renewable energy gets a 20-year Guaranteed fixed feed and tariff That feed and tariff as you could see here has led to Remarkable growth of renewable energy in the electricity sector over the last years It's a little bit more than only feed and tariff. It's also Guaranteed grid access, which is really important in order to sell your electricity and priority transmission and distribution and The money spent for this system is distributed among all the consumers. It's not tax money. This should be noted as well and The whole energy policy Basically stands on two basic feet like the energy efficiency. So first of all, we try to reduce our energy demand and then Cover this as much as possible with renewable energy and of course in between you need integration of the renewable energies and you need infrastructure So basically this system has now changed in Germany. So we have added economic instruments like tender schemes and So we are with together with our neighbors. We have a mixed System you could say so renewable energies are supported within a feed-in structure But also using tendering schemes and economical instruments The target in Germany is quite ambitious. So we plan to have at least 80 percent renewables in the electricity sector by 2050 and an overall at least 60 percent renewable energy for the total energy demand in Germany by 2050 So at the moment We stand at 30 percent around 30 percent in the electricity sector So that basically means you completely change the structure of your Electricity sector we came from as you can see here on the left bar. We came from a very fossil Produced electricity. We stand now around 30 percent renewables, but still use a lot of coal 45 percent all together and the future looks like almost only renewable energies and a few others basically gas and industrial production and the renewable energy Electricity in Germany basically means wind and solar. So these are the two main resources we can use in Germany. We have a more or less stable use of hydro and that is limited to closely to five percent and Biomass is also limited. So we talk about wind and solar and a growing share of offshore wind Well, if you look at the economical situation, it's like in the meantime wind and solar are competitive the only low-carbon alternatives Would be nuclear or hot coal and CCS and basically these are already much more expensive than wind and solar in Germany And on top of that they are not accepted in Germany. It's both possible Nuclear actually is not possible anymore because we have a nuclear act which phases out nuclear electricity until the year 22 Hot-cold CCS would be possible, but if you try to do it in Germany, it's a hard job a share of renewables you could see over the last 10 years has more than tripled and This figure is already outdated now. So the first half of 2015 already stood at more than 30 percent renewables and the electricity sector and That's basically solar Peewee in the south of Germany. You can see how that developed over the last 15 years and basically wind in the north With regard to Greenhouse gas emissions if you calculate that so we already save 115 million tons of greenhouse gas emissions each year with a use of renewables That is basically 15 to 17 percent of our total Emissions and interesting it's different than in United States most renewable production Like solar PVs are owned by private people and the utilities only own a very small share and basically that's one reason why they're struggling at the moment the challenges in Germany are definitely Building on the Infrastructure one reason is most of the electricity from renewables is produced in the north Well, our industrial centers are located in the west and in the south So we would need something around for huge high voltage transmission lines and As pointed out before that's a tough job So it takes a while to build these lines and people don't like it the second Big challenge is that in the near future and already today We have a very fluctuating input from renewables So this is how a typical year in the winter could look like in a few years almost no production from renewables and in other Times of the year you could have hundred percent and even more from renewables. So what do you need as a very flexible? power plant park and Baseload capacities is no longer needed. It makes no sense anymore. So we work on flexibility solutions That's basically what Tom called a technology barriers Actually, that's that's our development at present and in the future we work on more flexible grits and of course Production and consumption patterns and in the long run we work on different storage solutions so these are the main for technology solutions for Flexibility storage at the moment as everybody knows is quite expensive and of course as Longer the storage goes so you also need long-term storage the prices at the moment are very high. So this is This is the outlook for the future and of course storage is The prices for storage and batteries particularly are dropping dramatically The next thing which should be mentioned So the the rate for a German kilowatt hour is quite expensive compared to this country But if you look at the total expenditure for electricity people and Germany a household in Germany basically spends the same amount of money than people over here spent for a household because German Consumers only use one third of the electricity compared to us Good news is that although we still carry the burden of high feed-in Surcharges, so the money spent on the renewables is distributed To all the consumers. This is quite high for 20 years, but in future new Installed capacities are quite cheap for Germans and for everybody else. So This is a German story that we have a back package of high costs from high priced electricity in the past Basically because the prices for renewables fell down drastically particularly solar PV 80 percent in only a few years The other positive effect on the wholesale market is That with renewables coming in for free basically the wholesale market price Went down in Germany it decreased by over 40 percent over the last four years And that is a very good news for industry. So industrial electricity prices are lower than ever So overall if you look at all the costs and benefits you see that the Benefits in summary outweigh the costs, but of course it needs a lot of initial investments Another advantage is that we highly depend on energy imports in Germany and Renewable energy is basically the only resource which drives down or which brings down our dependency from energy imports Then was regard to jobs we create much more jobs with renewables than we live was on the traditional energy areas so We created more than 370,000 new jobs only in the renewable sector that is why in Germany the policy on that the so-called energy vendor and renewable energies are quite light in Germany and Last slide shows you what's in front of us. So we bringing the renewable act or main instrument More to the market. So we introduced tendering schemes and Economical instruments for that so in summary the whole energy policy which basically Uses renewable energies and efficiency as a real program. It's happening. It's monitored annually Renewable energies are definitely the most important instrument. It's led by wind and solar in Germany Great expansion is probably the biggest challenge together with efficiency in buildings and transports and All together the restructuring of that brings a lot of new economic opportunities, but also opportunities for our existing industry With that, thank you very much Thanks very much. Dr. Mao that was an incredibly quick and and comprehensive Look at what all has happened with regard to Germany and the immense growth in the renewable energy sector and I must say in terms of looking at both Germany and the UK I think we all Oh them both countries a huge thanks in that as a result of their experience They have also helped to really drive down the cost and really helped the learning curve for both For the United States and for a number of other countries around the globe We'll turn now to Allison convoy who is the head of energy and environment with the British Embassy and prior to joining the Foreign Office Allison had been with the UK's Department of Energy and Climate Change where she had headed the carbon budgets office and which was responsible for delivering the UK's emissions targets and she has been involved in setting support levels for renewables under all of the electricity market reforms in the UK and she has worked as part of the UK's Climate negotiations UN team trained as a scientist she has Been involved in obviously working with the British government's climate and energy engagement Across the US in her present capacity Allison welcome Thanks, Carol, and thanks to Tom and the team for Really interesting insight into a report and couldn't come at a better time as you've mentioned with the Paris negotiations And we'll talk in my slides. I do have some slides great a little bit about How Paris particularly is driving forward the innovation story Which I think is particularly relevant for some of the recommendations that you've you've put out So I'll speak just for a couple of minutes And what I wanted to do is take a step back and talk a bit about what's Driving some of the decisions around renewables particularly from a UK perspective and I think the first thing I wanted to say clearly is that from our perspective We don't see renewables as an end in themselves. We see them very much as a means to an end So really the goal that we're aiming for here is low-carbon Log low carbon economy not just power and there's a huge role for people heat and renewable power and renewable transport within that But ultimately what's driving this is low-carbon and we want to make sure that the energy mix across the pieces is the least cost One to deliver that and in terms of our commitment It's widely known that the UK was one of the first countries to commit to legally binding Greenhouse gas emissions targets and they remain amongst the strongest in the world So our emissions by 2050 need to be 80% lower than they were in 1990 and we have a fairly detailed requirement to set out five-yearly Budgets to restrict our emissions so we have budgets now set until the mid 2020s by which point the UK's greenhouse gas emissions will be half the level that they were in 1990 so That transition is kind of really clearly set out that means we're hugely reliable hugely reliant on low-carbon technologies including renewables to meet that Clearly if we're looking to cut our emissions, we need to start with the power sector And just a couple of kind of figures there So a round of the third of the UK's emissions at the moment come from power We still have a significant amount of coal on the system although not for much longer, which we will come on to One thing I want to be clear We hear kind of quite a lot a sense that as the US has made a transition from coal to gas that The UK and EU has been putting up huge amounts more coal generation capacity because we're buying all your coal and certainly in the UK I can say that's not true. We've not been building new coal plant new coal plants However, there has been a significant amount of coal still on the system But that is something we want to do something about So just last month the Secretary of State for Energy in the UK Announced that we wish to be the first country to phase out unabated coal and to do so by 2025 That will be major achievement if we are to deliver it We still have around 18 gigawatts of coal on the system So we'll lay out a consultation at the start of next year on that and we would see that phase out beginning from 2023 And and we can see here the comments really I think very clear sense from that energy minister Who is a member of the conservative government that she doesn't see a role for relying on? 50 year old coal generation in a in a modern country like the UK But we will need new generation to to counter that. So what are we going to build so at the same time she committed to A nuclear new build fleet so we have our first plant due to come online in the 2020s Followed by two further plants by the 2030s We could be seeing nuclear account for around 30% of the UK's generation We'll need a huge amount of renewables So we expect by 2020 to have around 30% of the power in the UK grid coming from renewables We'll also need some new gas very flexible source And we'll be reviewing our capacity market to make sure that is coming online I mentioned renewables clearly the focus for today And we do expect significant penetration So by 2020 we're looking at at least 12 gigawatts of onshore wind and solar 10 gigawatts of offshore wind, which is about Half of the world's offshore wind alone just in the UK And to speak briefly about what that regime has looked like There's been a transition through time so to begin with we started with a renewables obligation Which involves tradeable certificates So suppliers are required to meet a proportion of their power Through renewables and then that creates a market and tradeable certificates I guess like a renewable portfolio standard in the US context Since last year we have transitioned to a new support regime Which is basically around the feed-in tariff but has a mechanism called contract for difference Which means that should the market price Exceed the feed-in tariff You will see developers paying back to the government when the wholesale price of electricity is below That cost we will top up the payment And and the very much the transition here is to move from A system of tradeable certificates where you have Unlimited supply but variable costs variable support Through to a system where developers know up front exactly how much Revenue they will be generated and we found that that has big benefits for the cost of capital bringing into projects and the certainty that developers have And the mechanism for awarding those contracts is to have an auction And this is this is a diagram explain it There's a lot more information online on on that mechanism One of the more recent announcements that we've said is we really want to take the time to think how we the UK can best spend that money So when we have a constrained auction pot What are the best technologies for us to be funding and it was interesting a number of the speakers today have Highlighted the extent to which in some technologies costs have already fallen So when secretary of state announced our commitment to phase out unabated coal She also said there are some technologies solar and onshore wind where the costs have fallen So significantly in the UK that we will expect those technologies going forward to stand on their own feet So where technologies where developers already have a contract that will be seen right through to the end So these are 15 year contracts. So it's still significant pipeline coming through in the UK But we want to focus our support and this is kind of why a flag offshore wind in particular. So Around half of the world's offshore wind is installed in the UK And that means we think even though we are a small country That's an area where we have a huge amount of potential to make a difference And that's why we've said that within this parliament which runs to 2020 There will be three further rounds of support for offshore wind as well as nuclear And finally, I guess again bringing it back to what is the most what's the best role? We as a UK can play clearly. We're not going to solve this problem alone And this is why I'm so pleased that the Paris talks started with this announcement from the UK So it should say join the US so UK US China India Brazil and another 15 countries Hopefully you will have seen this announcement on Monday an absolutely huge kickstart to global R&D funding for clean energy So 20 countries committed that over the next five years their funding for this will at least double And also private sector investments notably Bill Gates Richard Branson on our side Agreed to complement that with their own new funding for innovation I think what's particularly relevant for today and the reports like the one we've just heard Is that what will be required there is increased coordination and there's a commitment from all countries that That coordination exchange transparency working together will need to increase to make the most of that money And that's a I mean a huge great start So Thank you very much to summarise. I think we're going to see huge amounts of continued deployment of renewables Within that low carbon framework in the UK and very happy to answer any further questions Great. Thank you. Alison. Thank you. I appreciate it and So that was a wonderful Explanation and Of what the UK has done where they are and how they are looking Forward including an update through the Paris summit And so now we're going to turn back to tom in terms of looking at some of the other recommendations in the report and after And after that it will be an opportunity to really look at some of your comments and advice Suggestions for things that perhaps if you haven't heard things that you think should be part of the report as well Tom Thank you carol and Where did the uh gizmo go? Underneath right. There's a snake at a bit me Dale commented in particular on this Transition that we see both an opportunity and a need for to go from a current format Of collaboration to a new format and one that really capitalizes On everything you've heard the speakers walk through today And that truthfully has been tip of the iceberg in comparison To the amount of opportunity and need and activity that could be generated But we need a new platform a new collaborator platform. It's really up to that task Some components of that involve thought leadership peer learning technical assistance and then ultimately that leads to market expansion And as again, you've seen these different pieces in these key thematic areas Brought forward. It's really now an opportunity to coalesce along these lines Uh a lot of conversation about counterparts. There has been some counterpart exchange some counterpart dialogue some counterpart Peer interaction, but because of the mechanisms that we've used and the way we've used them It's been rather limited in comparison to what it can and should be So we would specifically be Recommending that counterparts include all levels of government and in the sub national governments In particular have been very very active and have been close to many of the actual trials Of the instruments and actions and renewable energy And they are where a lot of the implementation actually takes place They also are very close to the partners that they work with in the private sector and civil society in terms of making these things happen So we would recommend that we do a better job of including a full range Of counterparts not only within government, but also in non-governmental sectors and that cuts across a variety of both stakeholders And other supporting partners who can become a part of this community of people who can be working together To crack the nut on the issues that we still have in front of us The third party partnerships as we mentioned the outset are likely to be quite crucial because it is difficult for governments Always to do what they need to do Alone and specifically we think that third parties can help In terms of mobilizing funding From the donor community to be able to support capacities that are needed to put in place this kind of technical assistance and peer learning That needs to take place Also, they can be very proactive in terms of outreach Bringing counterparts together and bridging some of those gaps that need to take place The regional collaboration issue as I think you've you've heard from multiple speakers and most recently from allison Is a very big one because this isn't just about the european union and the united states This is about all of us globally And this platform for collaboration that we see an opportunity and a need for between the transatlantic Parties is something that really could be linked to other regions with a number of highly synergistic effects In reality, we already see exchange Happening at this level, but just as the transatlantic exchange has been limited The multilateral exchanges have been a bit limited as well So we're looking at a new form of collaboration that can really cut across barriers in all regions combined And with that, I think what we're looking forward to is hearing a bit from you your thoughts On some of these findings and some of these recommendations Questions you have about them Contributions you would make in terms of what we should be considering We will be sharing this report with others in terms of formal review, but also in terms of comment from Participants who would likely be a part of these counterpart exchanges to be sure this is really addressing their highest priorities And looking for then response from Government leadership in the European Union and its member states in the united states and its states and the local jurisdictions in both countries Along with responses from non-governmental partners so that we can take some next steps in terms of actually putting in place Some of these enhanced collaborative mechanisms That are really focused on the issues we've talked about today for renewable energy And with that carol, I'm going to turn it back to you Okay Great. So as tom said, this is actually an opportunity to For you all to provide some feedback to what you've heard to ask questions of our speakers to offer your your comments, so Do we have any okay, go ahead if you could identify yourself Okay, great. Thank you. Anyone want to comment on that? Thanks Just a short comment. I totally agree that flexibility has to be reflected in the market In Germany, for instance, we move towards that market integration. So If you have a not a solar not a single rooftop solar, you don't have to to sell that on the market But the bigger plans now starting They have to sell their electricity on the market and then exactly that happens That you try to produce when you get the best price and not only try to sell as much as possible And that shifts also towards smaller producers in the future and this is exactly what we need more flexibility And have the market Controlling there Just an additional point also to agree and I think we see that there are potentially kind of technological barriers to the grid Being as smart as it could be and to policies which seem to make a lot of sense sometimes like time of use tariffs And and that's why is the first step what we've put a lot of our efforts into in the uk has been Getting the grid itself to be as smart as possible So in terms of developing up smart metering and we see that as a really important first step Alongside things like incorporating demand response into our capacity market Which happened for the first time last year. So, um, yeah, absolutely And let's kind of start getting that grid to the to the place where it can can support us Great, thank you for the comment and and actually I think that I just had heard something about in texas In fact because of the way renewables were coming into the market that they were trying to shift so that Um to encourage people to use renewable or to to actually do certain things in the evenings And making that electricity free As a way to make better use of again in terms of some of these issues that are coming up as far as grid integration And how best to to handle that question here Yeah, go ahead Mm-hmm Yes for the time of the settings. Right. So the time setting is to take the initiative here to address one of the European conditions by the way, for example, their variable number, the variable number, for many countries. Having the community close, you will set out all the possible to do these studies. You can start with the program with a system in the European Commission. Really, you will be integrated into it. You can get together, not only the other systems, the positive order, but the European Commission can be one example in comparison with all the states to be like them. And the rest of those issues is no way to do it our way. And it will be very much lost on anyone. I would really like to know whether that is a really new impact, but this is your approach to that. So I'm Chinese, the central kind of strategy, to initiate the moment with European, which is not very important. Very important. Right. I don't think it makes sense. Okay. And we can have Tom comment on that, but that's why it was so important in terms of the European Union delegation working with the Center for Climate Strategies to put together this report to once again identify some of these barriers and to help really set up the next stage of approaches so that we really could establish even better collaborations than what have gone on in the past because the issues, the technologies continue to evolve and we all have to get better about communicating, working together and finding new approaches. There's been a lot of work already done, but it's one of those things that we know that we've got to accelerate it, particularly when you look at the kinds of goals that we're hearing about in Paris, the kinds of goals that you heard Georg talk about with regard to Germany, that you heard Allison talk about with regard to the UK. Anything you'd like to add, Tom? Only that we anticipate that as a part of next steps that the delegation would actually be interested in having some of those conversations. So we're looking forward now to shaping some of what feeds into those conversations. Because I think everybody is about moving things forward as fast as possible so that we can all make a lot of progress and help each other. Any other comments or questions, suggestions for what should be included in the report? Recommendations? Okay, back there. Go ahead. Thank you. So how important is decoupling in terms of looking at, right, and in terms of looking, okay, in terms of looking at the whole world of subsidies because I think that certainly the UK and Germany have done a lot of work on that and obviously looking at subsidies and the barriers that they present as well as in some case some opportunities is something that's very, very important in moving forward. So go ahead, Allison, thank you. Yeah, I was just checking my notes actually as I happened just to read that stat. So our assessment is that subsidies for fossil fuels at the moment are globally five-time tire than subsidies for renewables, for example, and low carbon, five-time tire. So I don't have that within that particular step. So I mean, the prices that we're paying for nuclear in the UK are kind of like publicly available. So it's about 50% more than gas generation at the moment in the UK. But that's the kind of price that has been paid as part of that long-term secure, low-carbon energy mix that we're transitioning to at the moment. But I mean, I think the point about fossil fuel subsidies is hugely important is that until we level that playing field, we won't be in the right place. And I think that's why we think initiatives like mission innovation are particularly important. But yeah, that's the particular stat that we have if it's helpful. All right, thank you. Anybody else want to comment? No, a very, very important point because the more efficient we are, the more efficient technologies that we have with a cross in every sector, the less that we need to generate regardless of its source. So it's a very, very important point. A little pressure from your neighbors in terms of, right, right, exactly. In terms of letting you know what other people in your neighborhood are doing, which is a very, very useful thing to do. I thank you for raising that point. That's another important one. Any other questions, comments? We're from our speakers? Go ahead. Doing a work to improve aircraft safety, road certification, share of work, very, very efficient at this point and I think we're making the most of your work. So I was very excited to come here and find out what's been going on and then listening to the part of energy and it's kind of the rest of the work to promote either energy efficiency or a little energy. I have to say, I think very much about it in this talk. And then I noticed that in the sheet that the goal is to create an entire version of regional and ministry slash U.S. data. I'm wondering if you've written off the collaboration between the commission and the Department of Energy or the U.S. Department of Federal Health. Is the situation in the U.S. just a toxic environment? So that there's a hope of that. I saw on people's health, there's been a great issue of pollution. That was really a point where the two sides are talking about ways to promote this strong technology to make certain that they're changing the gap in the space of time between the new generation and the climate policy. But if somebody speaks to that and addresses it, what is it about federal health? Sure. Okay, thank you. Tom? So I'll be happy to speak to the U.S. side and perhaps Georg or Allison if you'd like to comment on the European side. So actually the Department of Energy has been very heavily involved in this and along with counterparts within the European Union in helping support the work to look past dialogue that is occurring strictly at that level. And so there certainly is dialogue. It's been quite critical. There is obviously the Clean Energy and Ministerial that has been an important focal point for multilateral discussions around this. But I think it's recognized that there's only so much that that kind of dialogue at that level can do to crack these nuts. We've got to get past that in a number of different ways. One of the ways is getting into subnational government, the member states, the U.S. states and localities because they are so important to the advancement equation. The other thing is the barriers in terms of time and distance for the kind of dialogue that occurs at the high levels that it's happening at right now. So Dale I think commented on the fact that the nature of those dialogue mechanisms are that they're periodic rather than continuous. They tend to be for a number of good reasons rather closed in comparison to open source opportunities that would be more applicable to a virtual environment. It's difficult for third parties, private sector, et cetera to be able to interact in a fluid manner in those kinds of exchange opportunities at the high levels that they're occurring. There's those dialogues as they're taking place now are quite critical, but this issue is bigger than that in terms of its need and in terms of the collaborative platform that will be required to address renewable energy. So it's looking at very much recognizing the importance of those but looking at enhancements and expansions beyond them and anything you might add. Thank you very much for your observation. I think that's true that you don't see so much in the public what's really going on between the governments. Actually, there are several international, let's say, corporations and it starts usually with an informational exchange because even if we agree on our targets that we want to have more renewable energies, we might not agree on the instruments how to boost renewable energies, particularly between Germany and other countries because not all the other countries agree on the feed and tariff structure for instance. But what happens is there's a lot of exchange on critical and practical challenges. It started, for instance, a few years ago with the Clean Energy Ministerial as a very political level, you could say, but then Germany, for instance, does a very technical and political exchange and it's called the energy transition dialogue. There will be a huge conference on minister level next March again and we had one, I think, this summer. What we do on a much lower level in the embassy over here is we have the Transylvania Climate Bridge and we're doing projects enabling the exchange of practical experience like we're bringing experts over. I want to know what's going on here on particularly demand response, for instance. There are several US federal states much advanced compared to Germany and the other way around we have a lot of experience now with grid management because we have in several areas in Germany we have up to 50% of renewables in the old grid and it works so people are interested how that works. I know there's a lot of information exchange between California and Germany and then there are partnerships like a federal states partnership between Minnesota and North Ryan West failure, for instance, a very fresh one from this year. So if you look at the state level you see a lot of exchange on experiences and these are concrete experiences maybe not in the newspapers because that's too technical but it's happening and of course everybody is quite aware who's working on that it's very interesting to talk with people who just experienced that five years ago what does it mean 30% electricity, renewable electricity in the grid and that is why a lot of people come over to Germany because we exactly experienced that and we have different technical solutions for that. Dale, why don't you also jump in on this because so much happens in terms of the regulatory policies at the state level and it's the locals that end up having to really implement so much and you're doing a lot of collegial work internationally and locally. So I think I could break your question from both perspectives. I spent 20 years at the EP in the international office and I covered global S&T also with Europe and I think the core problem is frankly we as Americans are not used to this notion of learning from other people. That's I think the fundamental filter that precludes a lot of this knowledge and policy and technical transfer from overseas to the United States and my experience was that if Germany and the United States now this is, I've been out of the federal government for eight years now, but if Germany and the federal in the United States were gonna work on something like climate first and foremost it was through multilateral fora and the conversation was quite confrontational it was through the UN or the OECD. If there was a desire to move towards a collaborative conversation and there were many examples of that it would be in the form of development assistance AID working with GIZ or its predecessor to deliver solar stoves in Namibia or extract, you know, sulfited diesel fuel in Jakarta or share bikes in Cochabamba, Bolivia. The second part of the problem is that especially in this science and technology conversation success tends to be defined by the State Department and I don't think I'm being overly cynical when I say their version of success tends to be guys in lab coats shaking hands at photo ops and signing ceremonies and a classic example of that with all due respect to my German friends was the US German Science and Technology Agreement from 2010 to 2015 and it was just renewed. It's not framed on the US side in a problem-focused goal-oriented context the way we talk about in the paper it's not the State Department coming to EPA with its seven, eight hundred million dollar budget for research and saying what are the ways in which Germany's experiences with energy efficient nitrate extraction technologies for wastewater could come from Stuttgart or Berlin and be applied into Alexandria or Sacramento and I think that that's a core problem of the first filter that I led my response with which is this notion that we're not accustomed to learning and I think in a sense what we're saying at the local level is that we aspire to go to that knowledge transfer model that we characterize in the paper went very much to learn from and apply these technologies and that's fundamental to this conversation with Europe another part also and this goes way beyond the paper but transatlantic science and technology collaboration is very theoretically based and there are very poor mechanisms for supporting applied research and there's just no funding for it and I think that that is a core issue too. So at the sub-national level it's great that there are exchanges it's wonderful that there's a conversation but it's at the point now where I would suggest that the kind of business model that we're talking about is very strategic, priority countries again, problem-focused, goal-oriented, outcome-driven conversations where in the case of the United States we learn from these innovations and apply them we're getting closer to that it's very technical you gotta bring in multiple partners and it's gotta be a continuous dialogue. One handicap that we talk about in the paper and where I think we need to go from here is how does the transatlantic climate energy conversation go beyond just the one-week exchange? What is the work? How do we define the work that needs to be done leading towards outcomes with the deplaning at Dulles Airport or the deplaning of San Francisco International or Kennedy?  We understand that the feed-and-tear system is very complex we cannot copy it in Virginia but that shouldn't preclude us from finding ways in which we maybe inform net metering on the basis of interconnection standards from Stuttgart in the Commonwealth. It's a very, very modest step in terms of advancing renewable energy policy in the state. In transatlantic learning context it's a quantum leap. Our experience is gonna be a lot different in Gainesville, Florida which has a great success story. It's a wonderful model of this kind of transfer leading to wonderful applications or Sacramento. But we need to be very, very strategic in how we work. We can't just be polyanish and say we're gonna go over, look at Freiburg and see grand visions of solar panels all over Richmond or Arlington. We have to be very, very strategic in how we work. That's what I would suggest. And it's happening, it's great. And it's part of this conversation. But it needs to get stronger and I would suggest more institutional support and frankly more kinds of conversations like these. Thanks. And I think on that note we will close out today's briefing. I want to thank all of our speakers very, very much for your time, your expertise. And thank you, Tom in terms of the Center for Climate Strategies. And we really appreciate all of your being here. And please let us know how we can be helpful. And if you've got additional feedback, things that you think really need to be represented. Thank you so much for coming.