Good morning. Can you hear me? Yeah, okay. Good morning. I'm Thorne. This is the church of the Wi-Fi wireless extravaganza. I want to welcome you all here. It's great to be back at DEFCON. Thank you for being relatively sober. Yeah, we're not going to do any jokes this morning, because we figure having you guys here for the first talk early in the morning is a bad enough joke as it is. But we're all happy to see you here. I'm going to start off a little bit about the church. We're going to talk about some of our current projects. We hope it's going to be informative and entertaining for you. The panel today is myself. I'm Thorne, as I said. We also have the Prez 98 and the infamous Canadian hacker render man. Thank you. So a kind of a question that I asked a lot is who are the church of the Wi-Fi and what are we? Are we pirates? Are we pirates or ninjas? Are we pirates with stealthy ninja skills? Are we ninjas that go arg? So one answer is really that we're kind of a collective, a church, if you will, of where we do some wireless and Wi-Fi voodoo. The other answer is, of course, that we're a bunch of code monkeys that wear pulp hats. Kind of like that. Any resemblance, by the way, to the panel this morning to that picture, is purely coincidental. So the church as a group has a website that basically this is what we really do. We do projects mainly around wireless stuff. If you're here, I assume you've probably heard a little bit about some of our projects in the past. We're going to talk a little bit about those today. We're also going to talk about some of the newer ones. But if you go to the main site, there's currently over 50 projects that are all wireless. They're all in varying amounts of detail. They all kind of depend on what your skill level is, how well you might do with them. But they range from beginner to really hardcore stuff on there. And this is just kind of a real brief overview of what it was as of about a week and a half, two weeks ago, what the site looked like. It's probably changed since then because there's new ones going on all the time. Also regarding your skill level, if you're going to tackle some of these things, some of them are really, really simple and some of them you have to have two propellers on your beanie. It gets pretty bad. But they are all over the place and anybody is welcome to come in there and take a look around. Absolutely. The first thing I want to talk about is our big project for this year. But I've got to take a step back before I talk about that. And I got to talk about last year's DEF CON. Last year at DEF CON, I was putting on the wireless contest and I had a little bit of a problem. And this is the problem. This is actually this year's contest, or one portion of it. But this is the problem. People would look at this kind of thing and they would go, oh my God, I don't have the skills. So we only had like two teams competing last year. So they'd say, I don't have any skills. And we'd say, why don't you compete? I don't have any skills. They'd get the Napoleon Dynamite answer. No skills. I don't have any computer skills. And girls only want guys with skills. So we said, how are we going to get people to come out here and have skills? So we took our look around and we talked amongst ourselves. And this guy, Converge, are you here? Are you still in the PDs? I guess he's hiding. I think the PD still hasn't from the cookout last night. The talk to the barbecue. But Converge kind of summed it up very nicely. He said, I care about demonstrating and inciting a hacker attitude towards my fellow of 10Ds. And we came up with the concept of learning and touching equals doing this stuff. Not touching each other. Yeah, touching the equipment, not each other. So we're going to, this year, in looking around, we said, what can we do to teach this stuff and to get people the skills that they need? So we took a look around and we said our friend lost, had run a really exciting hardware session last year, some nice breakout sessions on robotics and stuff. We took a look at what was going on with the lockpick village. So we said, what we want to do is we want to provide an area to do those kinds of things for wireless skills. And so we want to provide breakout sessions, we want to have some tutorials, all that kind of stuff. Again, the whole concept of learn plus touching equals doing it. So what we came up with is this year's big project. And that is the DEF CON 15 wireless village. And we hope it's going to be up in Skybox 209. We are hoping that every one of you will at least come in and say hello and stop by and hopefully learn some stuff. We've got a whole bunch of subjects that are going to be covered. This is just a couple of them. I'm going to be doing some stuff on RFID. Squidley 1 is going to be doing some stuff on wireless hacking for PlayStation portables. Render is going to be doing some stuff on talking about direction finding. We've just got a whole bunch of stuff that's going to be covered. And we really hope that you'll come by and learn something, or at least if you've got someone that's here that's in a different talk and they don't know about some of this stuff, they're talking about perhaps competing in the wireless contest, that we would send them over, learn something. Hopefully we'll get some more people competing this year. So it's just, yeah, again, some more stuff on regarding what we're going to be teaching up there, the wireless technology is doing the breakout sessions. Again, that's where we're going to be up in Skybox 209. And we've even got a limited, a very limited amount of those really cool stickers that look just like that. So if you're not cool and you don't have one of these on your laptop, you should definitely come up and at least try and own a sticker. Now, because of this, we're integrating the wireless contest this year with the wireless village.  All right, enough about that. Some of the other projects. This is kind of one of an infamous one that we came up with last year. And this is the WPA rainbow tables. I think probably some of you have heard about these. They've been talked about a little bit nationally. We came up with a concept last year of this is actually, he and I talking. He and I talking on the phone is like a really bad idea, because we think about these things. And we say, what if we did, hmm, and all of a sudden something starts rolling. So we were talking about a year ago, a little, actually a little over a year ago, and we said, if we put together some sort of rainbow table, would that work? And at first we said, no, it won't work, because there's a couple of different things. And then we talked to some friends who said, yeah, it would definitely work if you did A, B, and C. So after a lot of futzing around, a lot of trial and error, a lot of error on error, we finally produced the first rainbow table for WPA. And it was 172,000 passwords that were in a dictionary. They were run against the 1,000 most common SSIDs. That resulted in a 7 gigabyte rainbow table. And it was kind of popular. We've had a lot of downloads. The Shmoo has been very kind in hosting it for us. So we said, well, can we top that this year? So render a track down some more passwords. Quite a few more. This year we have run 1 million of the most common passwords against, again, the most common SSIDs, 1,000 of those. And we have yielded a table of 35 gigabytes. You're going to have to use BitTorrent to download this sucker. Or come to the village. Or come to the village. Yeah, come up to the village. We will have them available. But it takes a while to get them. Even on BitTorrent, this will run you about a week and a half to download on a continuous download. But we are able to now use these tables to crack an amazing amount of passwords. And on average, you can run these about a minute to two to three minutes and crack most passwords on common SSIDs. This is a real good tool if you're doing any kind of wireless security work and people say, oh, I've got the best password in the world that's locking down my thing using WPA. You can walk in and probably break it if it's any kind of dictionary word. And even some of the more common ones where they stick a 1 in the middle of the word. Those kinds of things. Very easy to break it now with a password. Again, the idea behind this is to get people to use secure passwords with secure passwords. You can use up to 64 letters on WPA and most people are using, you know, their first name or something. So we're getting bigger and better, folks. By the way, one comment about this, a lot of people have asked, well, what if they've got something that's really uncommon and they want to check and see how long it can break it? There is a package out there that you can generate your own rainbow, your own table for a single SSID using the standard million passwords. And it's called Gen, yeah, G-E-N-P-M-K. It's included in the package for Cow Patty. And it takes about 30 minutes on average to generate your own table for a given SSID against those million passwords. That is roughly a two-to-one trade-off on any SSID or the more common ones, because it will usually take about 60 minutes using just Cow Patty in the native format to break it. So you can usually do it block quicker using the rainbow. The question was about 30 minutes on what kind of processor, and that's what, a 1.5, 2 gig? Yeah. 1.8. To 2 gig machine, you'll run about 30 minutes. Okay, the other big project that has garnered some attention already is our own distro. Now right off the bat, I want to tell you people this is not our own in the normal sense that we built this thing from the ground up. We did not. This is based on Backtrack 2. We have permission from the kind folks at Backtrack. We told them what we want to do. He said run with it. So what we did was we have come up with a way to produce a bootable USB disk that you can plug into any bootable computer, USB bootable computer, and you can boot it into a Backtrack mode and it will come up with its own tables ready for cracking against Cow Patty. This is just an excellent tool. If you don't want to install Backtrack on your own PC, you don't want to necessarily carry around the separate CD and then try and bring it in the tables in a drive, which can get a little unwieldy. This will actually allow you to plug it into any laptop, boot it up, and away you go. And you can be doing wireless checks inside of, well, two minutes for the boot. We're advocating using a 100 gig table or 100 gig drive so you can get 35 megabyte tables on there and that will allow you to then have plenty of other room if you want to put standard rainbow tables on there or whatever you're going to be doing. But this is it right here. This is model number one or model number two depending on how you look at it. I got to tell you two folks, we had asked this back in January that we were going to be doing this and we started creating the first ones back in February and we couldn't do it. We ran into an enormous amount of problems getting this sucker to work so much so that model two and model one were produced last weekend finally. But we do have it now. We know all the secrets to getting it to work properly and we will have it written up and on the site. I'm hoping within about two weeks, three weeks, something like that. The steps are complicated. They're not particularly hard to do and you can do it in about a half hour or so to an hour. It's just that you have to do the steps in the right order and you have to do it properly or the thing won't work. And I got to hand out mad props to the guys down at the backtrack forums because some of them figured out exactly where we were going wrong and said, oh yeah, you just got to flip this switch or put this bit in the spot and get it to work. But it finally did work and we're happy to announce that it is working. We were afraid we were going to get up here today and say, well, it's not quite there. But it does work and if you want to see it working, we're going to have it up in the village. I'm just going to talk about a couple other projects that I was involved in and then Mike and Render are going to talk about their stuff, too. The first smaller project that I personally worked on was called the unconventional LAN. This one is up in fact on the website. I got it up a couple of weeks ago. What this is, it allows us to set up a functioning wireless LAN at any convention. I've done it now at three or four different cons. It's kind of a great tool for distributing software. I kind of came up with this idea because of the original 7-gig tables, I got tired of carrying around empty CDs and DVDs, and it was just not working. So that's what it looks like right there. It's a WRT-54, a Linksys NSLU unit, and a hard drive. You can have a functioning wireless LAN anywhere. It's packageable in a nice little pelican case. It actually makes it through the TSA without any problems. Yeah, it's a nice feature, and it only weighs about 18 pounds. Another project that we've been working on, this one has been somewhat successful. It's called Project Mutton, and this is a wireless setup and run box of shame, or allows you to have your own wall of shame. We found out that Linksys had produced a unit called a WPG12, and it's kind of an odd ball in the Linksys world because it was actually an I386 processor single board computer, as opposed to most of their other ones, which are specialized microcomputers. It looks like a WAP series unit, but it's not. It was actually designed to be a presentation unit. It runs Linux. It runs anything that will run on a 386 series processor. That's the actual unit right there. It comes with that funky remote control, which is actually a wireless mouse and integrated laser pointer. It is designed originally to do presentations like this. You get up and you can just click the thing, and there's a cursor that will move around everything. But in playing with it, we found that we could actually get Linux. It was running a native form of Linux. We've tried to get a couple of things going on it, and it's working fairly well. We just haven't gotten all the scripts going completely. IronGeek, I don't know if he's here or not, but he supplied the original Wallashame script, which is on his site, and it's real neat. It works real well. We're just having problems getting some of the other packages up and running. But it is getting there, and hopefully that will be up, I'm hoping, within another month or two on the Kaufig site. Okay, this is another one. This is a Stealth's file server. This is basically the same kind of idea as the unconventional LAN, but what it is, is it goes in a camera bag, and you can carry around a wireless LAN that you can switch between infrastructure and ad hoc mode. You can distribute files without having anything happen to it. It will just sit there and distribute files all day long. We built this one just because people were saying, can you actually build it? I'm not big into sharing a lot of music files and so forth, but I know a lot of people that are, and it was suggested that this kind of thing may be the David versus the RIA's Goliath. I'm not sure about that, but it can be done. The nice thing about this is it uses the game adapter, and that gives you a single switching capability. The file project is called Rolling Thunder, and I built this one for myself, basically. This one is the same kind of thing. It's made to be portable, and it will run out of a car. I use this one personally. That way I can distribute files from my car as I need them on client sites. Yes, it does use file encryption. There's the whole package right there, packed up right ago. Thank you very much. I'm done with my portion of it, and now we've got something completely different. We have the Prez 98. Good morning. I want to talk about three things. First, I want to talk about the wireless contests. The overall wireless contest is broken up into five subcontests. The picture that you saw earlier right in the beginning with the stacked up WRTs, that's a tower challenge. It's going to be a multi-level contest. They're still working on getting that set up today, but we expect by later today or tomorrow that that should be running. That's going to be a weekend long thing. The other contests are more time-based. WPA cracking will be this afternoon. Web cracking and direction finding contests will be tomorrow, and then on Sunday we'll have an RFID locating contest. If you're interested in participating, you don't necessarily have to participate in all the contests. If there's one thing you're interested in, or if there's something you want to learn, please go ahead and come up. In addition to the contests, we're having those breakout mini-sessions before the contest. If you don't know anything about RFID and you want to learn about it, you can come up and learn about it and then participate in the contest if you want. I want to talk about two different projects. One, unfortunately, that we don't have here. One of our members, Barry, lives in North Pole, Alaska. It was a little difficult for him to get down here, and we tried to set up something like a teleconference, but they don't have good cell coverage up there for some reason. Barry's The Box is a Janice-style portable computer project that he made for wireless surveys. He had this idea, or he was kind of going off the Janice concept, and he basically wanted to see what he could come up with. Here's the specs. I'm not going to read through them, but just to give you an idea of what he put on there. Here's a picture of it. It's basically just a Pelican-type case. He's got Ubuntu running on it. He's got about eight different wireless car or wireless connectors there. I asked him, why did he build this thing? He said, well, because I could. It's kind of one of those, something he was interested in doing and a project that he built. Unfortunately, like I said, he couldn't be here, but we just wanted to give him some props for the project that he built and just to kind of demonstrate that. The second thing that I want to talk about is not one of our projects, but I think it's something that we thought, collectively, was a really cool project to talk about. This is called the Traveling Terabright Project. This was introduced last year at DEFCON by our friend Deviant. This is a project that we kind of thought, wow, this is something that, while it's not necessarily a wireless project and while it's not necessarily one of our projects, this is something we really want the community to know about because this really embodies the kind of community that we are. This was conceived by Deviant in June of 2006. He had ordered a couple hard drives for a client and found that they were a good price, so he ordered a couple more. The project is basically two 500-gigabyte external hard drives. The green case up here in front of Thorne is the package. It's in a green Pelican case. It's got power adapters, power converters, USB, fire wire. The main idea for this project was to be able to take this case and send it to somebody who may not be in an area where there's a lot of connectivity or a lot of content, like in Iraq, Afghanistan, that sort of thing, to be able to share con talks, video, music, movies, all that sort of stuff with someone who doesn't really have the bandwidth or the capability in a remote location to do that. So this was kind of the project that was introduced at last year's DEF CON. Debuted last year and his project has already been called an urban legend. This was one of our friends. AST Cell was in the Middle East and one of his bosses had heard about the project but thought it was just some myth that was going around, but this is actually something that's taken place. Here's the project's first owner displayed last year at DEF CON. Is AST Cell here? There he is. Here's the first owner of the project looking very scary in his army uniform. He took the project from Las Vegas to Tampa where he was working at SENTCOM and then he sent the project to me when I was in Iraq. I was in Ashraf, Iraq, which is about 50 miles northeast of Baghdad and it really is the middle of nowhere. I really had no... This is my desk here that I was working off of and not much connectivity, pretty bored during the day. I got this project that had all sorts of cool things on it. I had a lot of space to copy stuff on and contribute as well. By October, a second set of drives had been unveiled. This is the second case over here and you can see in the picture here that basically all the pieces and components of this thing put together. Traveling Terabyte 1, I looked through the logs. It's been throughout the continental U.S. as well as Iraq and Kuwait and I've estimated up until now it's traveled just about 25,000 miles so basically around the globe in excess of one time so that's pretty cool. If you're more interested in this project there's the link there for the homepage, Deviance page on the Traveling Terabyte project. There's also a thread on the DEF CON forums that talks about the history of this project and then there's been some news releases about this project. Like I said, not one of our projects but something that we really wanted to mention as something that's really indicative of the way this community should be. A whole bunch of people had ideas and contributed to this project and now it's benefiting people that maybe don't have the resources to get this sort of material. This is my shameless self-promotion slide. Like we talked about, please check out the village up in the skybox. We're going to start up probably around noon today. We'll be running the entire weekend. Check out the contest. I'm giving a talk tomorrow night called the Hacking Iraq. We're going to be in speaking area one and then I'm getting out of the Navy so if you're interested in hiring somebody I'm looking for a job. Okay, so it's my turn now. Basically for the last couple of years I've been the main mouthpiece for the church of Wi-Fi so I figured I'd give these guys a shot to save a few things and make my life a little easier. I just want to start off with sort of a comment. I've been with this community since at least 99. I went to DEF CON 7, that was my first one, I've been going ever since and the community has changed. I mean everything evolves, it's going to happen but it just seems like some of the good old-day things are gone. People are now hacking because they're getting paid, not necessarily because they're just, because they should. Nobody ever talks anymore. Prime example, like you look at something like the iPhone comes out and the sheer amount of attention and effort from all of the corners of the globe trying to get apps on this thing and just make Apple's life miserable but just the sheer amount of effort and community that just exploded around this project. You don't see that as much as you used to and it's kind of a shame. A lot of it seems to be with people who have grown up, gotten jobs in Infosec and, you know, hey, you're under NDAs, I can understand that. Hey, I'm looking for a job myself, so if somebody wants to hire me, please. But we need to talk to each other more. There's going to be an example later on where our group and two vendors, major wireless vendors, end up recreating the exact same work three times. So how much effort have we wasted? It just seems to me like, okay, yeah, you can have your NDAs, you can have your tight little confined research and development departments but if there's something that's really cool in there and your company's not interested, don't let it die. Say, okay, we're not interested in developing this, let your developers talk to their friends, let them pass it out back to actually see the light of day, give it to people who actually can make something happen with it. So as Thorne was talking about the site earlier, we're actually going to be changing the site quite drastically here in the very new future. It's been complained that we have this sort of evil look and in all honesty, we never expected things to take off as quickly as they had so we never expected people to take us as seriously as they have. So we want to get a little bit away from that. It's basically still going to be talking about the joys of wireless and how many interesting projects there are and it's not a dead field by any stretch of the imagination despite what anybody might say. There's a lot of good research to be done. It'll hopefully be easier to navigate, easier to maintain for us. Another complaint is that it's really hard to link to but basically it's all tongue-in-cheek. We're not trying to be offensive to everybody. Actually, we are trying to be offensive to everybody. All right, and part and parcel of that redesign is we're going to go through and you create the church of Wi-Fi confessional. A church has to have a confessional. So basically, this started out as an idea of security has to be right every time where the bad guys only have to be right once. Well, you can have all the best intentions in the world. We're all human in this room. Most of us are human in this room, but we're all trained security people for the most part. We know something about what we're doing, but we make mistakes and a prime example of that is I hope they don't throw something heavy at me is core security. At Shmukan this year, I was standing


Hello, Columbia. Welcome to City Talk, where we talk about important topics in the City of Columbia. On this City Talk, we focus on summer programs for youth in our community. We have with us Assistant City Manager, Henry Simons, who will talk to us about how the City of Columbia is prepared to help youth in our community with activities of summer that are proactive and productive. Thank you so much for being with us. Yes, ma'am. Thank you for having me. I know that we've had a pandemic break, so to speak. So we've not had summer programs in the City of Columbia for the past couple of years. So tell me how you and your team have been able to transition to bring those programs back. So first of all, we're very excited about the opportunity. As you stated, it's been two years since we've been able to conduct summer camp. And for our citizens in the community and our parents, they're extremely excited that we are back this summer to provide activities to our youth. And we know that there's a lot going on in the community. And we want to be able to provide a safe space for our kids. And our summer camp, more than ever, is much needed in the community because it's been absent for the last couple of years. So we're excited about offering this to the community. Okay. And speaking of much needed in the community, tell us this year where are city camps located? So our summer camps specifically are going to be at Willland Park, Martin Luther King Park and Greenview. And those are areas where we're kind of focused on those activities as far as summer camp. And that's going to start on June 13. But there are other specialty camps that'll be all over the city from art camps to sports camps. You know, we have outdoor camps that we're offering. So we have a variety of specialty camps aside from our regular summer camp. Okay. I heard the start date June 13. And that will continue through what date? That will continue through August 5th. Okay. August 5th. The entire summer. Yes. The entire summer. I've also heard about primetime in the parks. Tell us exactly what is primetime in the parks. So primetime in the parks, we wanted to give our young people an opportunity on Friday nights in particular to go into a safe space into our recreational centers for activities from the 8 p.m. to 11 p.m. hour. A lot of activities that we're seeing in the news and in the community is happening during that time. So every Friday to summer, we're going to have a variety of activities happening at a variety of parks in that 8 p.m. to 11 p.m. hour from movies in the park, from teen activities in the park, just a number of activities that will focus on our youth and pull them in to a positive environment and a safe environment. And that's every single Friday the summer we'll have something available at various parks around the city. Okay. And for parents and guardians listening, the primetime in the parks, that sort of focuses on say our older kids so I guess is there a range for that? Yeah, we're trying to identify that 13 and up population, 13 to 18 population for these types of activities. We know that they're out of school, it's a Friday night and there's a lot of things going on in the community but so we wanted to make sure that there was a place for them to engage at their level with young people their age and also just have a good time in the park. So we're very excited about that and looking forward to our citizens and our parents bringing the students or the youth to the actual gym. Okay. Sounds like great activities on Friday evenings for teens. Yes. And then summer camps are throughout the week, is that correct? Absolutely. Money through Friday are summer camps, absolutely. And that starts from 7.30 a.m. to 6.00 p.m. money through Friday. So truly it's full day? Absolutely, full day. Full day of activities. And meals provided to children at these camps? Absolutely. Meals are provided to our summer camps so all that will be available so we'll take care of them from that time. From the time they get there to the time they leave, we'll have them taken care of. Okay. If you can share with us a general phone number for parks and recreation if persons have questions? So<PHONE_NUMBER> will be the main number that they can call to engage and ask any questions about any of our camps. Anything that we've talked about from summer camps to prime time in the parks or specialty camps, they can call that number and we'll answer any questions that they may have. Okay. And then of course they can find you on our website at ColumbiaSC.gov and it's parts of recreation. You can have your own page and I'm sure they can find that. Anything else that you want to emphasize about summer camps this year or prime time in the parks or any summer activities? I would just say that we want to engage our parents. We want the young people involved. We want them to participate. We have the activities. We have the facilities. But we need the youth there so we can engage them in that safe space. You know, we have these activities scheduled for the entire summer so we're just encouraging our parents to get involved to reach out to us if they have questions because we want to maximize our participation. Okay. All right. I'll hear that. Maximize participation for youth in our community. We're talking summer activities, our summer camps and also prime time in the parks and parts of recreation. We're here with Henry Simon's Assistant City Manager who is with the City of Columbia. Any information called parts of recreation, 545-3100 visit our website at ColumbiaSC.gov and make sure you get your kids involved with summer activities this year.


Geography. Geography is a field of science devoted to the study of the lands, features, inhabitants, and phenomena of Earth. The first person to use the word question marky question mark question mark question mark AF question mark A was Eratoskines. Geography is an all-encompassing discipline that seeks an understanding of Earth and its human and natural complexities not merely where objects are, but also how they have changed and come to be. Geography is often defined in terms of two branches, human geography and physical geography. Human geography deals with the study of people and their communities, cultures, economies, and interactions with the environment by studying their relations with and across space and place. Physical geography deals with the study of processes and patterns in the natural environment like the atmosphere, hydrosphere, biosphere, and geosphere. The four historical traditions in geographical research are spatial analyses of natural and the human phenomena, areas studies of places and regions, studies of human land relationships, and the Earth sciences. Geography has been called the world discipline and the bridge between the human and the physical sciences.


Since last week I have been gathering videos and ideas and of course stories of very amazing people around the world that have decided to become Muslim from very unlikely areas. I have reviewed videos about priests, about Catholic deacons and about pastors who decided to become Muslim for their own reasons and today we are going to be heading to Israel and we are going to be going to the Jewish line because there are two faiths that make up the Abrahamic faith apart from Islam. One of those faiths is Christianity and the other one is Judaism. Where Christianity came from Judaism, Judaism was the beginning of all the Abrahamic faith itself. Jesus came, the Messiah and of course Islam the last message made a debut. One thing that is unique about two of the faiths that Christianity and Judaism is that both of them load Islam. For Judaism it is the last and everlasting covenant but for Christianity a new covenant was made in the name of Jesus Christ and sealed by his death and resurrection. For Islam who came just about the 7th century but not really that new because obeying Allah is religion that has been with the world for a very long time. So both the Christians and the Jews see themselves very exclusive from the Muslims.  So because of that they say well these people are not part of the faith but today the Catholic Church has recognised Islam as part of the Abrahamic faith and we stand by that. Converting from Judaism to Islam is just like a house going through the eye of a needle is very difficult. The story we want to review today makes everything easy. Asalaamu alaikum guys, welcome to another episode of the Open Mind Your Thinker Show. As it is our tradition, please like and share this video to let others see it and learn this lessons we are learning today. Don't forget to be part of the family by subscribing to help us grow from strength to strength. The video we are about to look at today is tremendously interesting and it's going to make your day. The most important thing is for people to recognise the truth and the next thing is to go for the truth. The courage to understand the truth, to know what lies beneath all the f*****g of lies and then that courage to take a step are two different things that are complemented only by the power of God. I think the power of God is in playing the life of this Jewish president, president of a large Jewish organisation that decides to teach the faith and come back to Islam. Kurdistan, home to over 45 million people, belonging to various ancient ethnicities. The autonomous region celebrates a unique level of cultural equality and tolerance. However, it wasn't always like this. Up until 1950, Kurdistan was known for its massive generation of Jews. They lived freely, intermarried for years and enjoyed the freedom to practice their religion. Then, the law in Iraq changed. It basically forced the Jews of Kurdistan and all Iraqi region to drop their Iraqi citizenship since they had nowhere to go. More than 200,000 Jewish Kurds relocated in 1951 to occupied parts of Palestine which had recently been declared the State of Israel. The Jewish Kurds that didn't move to Israel were placed in three different counties of Kurdistan, Dohuk, Erbil and Soleimaniya. Soon, the families had grown enough to take over a few areas and the distributed areas were identified as Jewish quarters. For a few years, they continued to face a bit of turbulence in case of the religious rights, but they persevered and in 2015 managed to celebrate a new law from the Kurdish parliament and granted the Jews freedom to practice freely. The Jewish Kurds rejoiced by organizing their first public religious celebration called the Forgotten Holocaust. The event was attended by many influential parties including government authorities, board members and even foreign representatives. As amazing as that is, the Jews of Kurdistan number less than 400 families. So, even if they're allowed to practice the religion freely, the minority Jews are still influenced by the Kurdish circle that is 94% nominally Muslim. Well, I just want to briefly comment on the Holocaust. I wouldn't want to say much, but I have taken a lot of time in paying to research the Holocaust carefully and everything that comes in between. You know what I mean? Like, a lot of conspiracy theory surrounds every event like the 9-11 and any other major events in the world, very good or bad. Sometimes conspiracy theory surrounds them and guess what? We just have to be left with the fact and what we know already. So, the Holocaust really happened and we really are not happy and Islam doesn't encourage things like the Holocaust. People that committed the Holocaust went on Muslims and we as Muslims have to guide against invoking certain memories, let people were allowed to practice the faith the way they didn't think. God is the one that judge. Don't judge anyone you have no part to do so. Case in point, Aram Ezzat, the head of the General Jewish Council in Kurdistan, Ezzat managed nine people in his council and enjoyed a life of power and prestige. His main mission was to secure the life of Jewish Kurds. In his quest to safeguard the Jews, Ezzat oversaw all details within the three counties in Kurdistan. This is where he met Hajj Muhammad Bayez Agha Al-Sarzuri, a prominent Muslim figure in Sulaimaniyah. The two bonded quite well and became good friends. Al-Hajj Al-Sarzuri asked Ezzat many times what he thought about Islam. Its influence on Kurdistan and globally. He would talk about Islam's principles, the loopholes in Judaism, and why Islam was the true religion. Al-Sarzuri's religious talks persuaded Ezzat to at the very least ponder over his faith and think about his purpose in life. Was Judaism really what he wanted to pursue? Did the religion leave any questions unanswered? Was Islam trustworthy? Ezzat wasn't curtain from what the media believed Islam was and the negative picture did keep him from actually moving toward the faith. In spite of it all, his friend, Asharzuri, kept on discussing Islam with him and answered any question Ezzat had. After three long years, Aram Ezzat was finally convinced Islam was a true faith. He found the courage to testify his faith by reciting the Shahada. Subhanallah. Yeah, I want to really look at... I'm so interested in reflecting about one's life and purpose when you do so and when you conjure many other facts that deals with the Islamic claim to truth you will realize that there is an actual claim to truth and these claims are true. I have to make this quite clear here because when you look at the trajectory of the prophecies that were revealed in the New Testament it would realize at some point that it was pointing to Islam because even the apostles were confused about the prophecies that really do not know what Jesus Christ meant and Jesus said they wouldn't know until the Holy Spirit came and how did Islam came, how did Islam take over the world if it is not the act of God and then who did it when you reflect on all this and reflect basically your purpose in life the five times daily prayer, the fasting the commitment to God and his teachings the impregnable armor against modern day practices and whatnot you come to realisation that Islam with its consistency doctrine, philosophy and theology aids the true faith it's truly incredible how influential a friend's mere words can be Ezzat in a recent press conference officially proclaimed his status as a Muslim and a few days later sat down for an interview with Al-Jazeera Net along with his friend, Al-Sharzuri on converting to Islam Ezzat says that he decided to surrender his Jewish beliefs because of how much integrity and validity the principles of Islam hold his friend, Al-Sharzuri comments that he felt great joy and pride after hearing that Ezzat had become a Muslim on his influence he was relieved to have saved his friend from entering Hellfire in the afterlife although the region of Kurdistan was overjoyed to have an additional brother in their Muslim community Ezzat's proclamation of faith was met with a few drastic stirs his social media was on fire with Islamophobic insults criticism from angry Jews and disappointments from Kurdish minorities Ezzat was also accused of wrongdoings from people living outside of Kurdistan and even charged legally in a variety of cases however, all of it failed to downplay his trust Well before this video continues I would love to say that one of the things that attracted me to Islam is the ponder to charity these are the core of Islamic teachings and theology you might not understand that but as a Catholic you were taught the power of charity even in the seminary at some point you would be asked to do charity like as part of your penance for sin like you go to a priest for confession and after confessing the pain of the gravity of the sin the priest might decide to tell you that you've got to go for charity work to assuage your sin and that's basically how the church operates so it's easy for a Catholic to really understand the enormity of charity of Islam in fact, his faith was strengthened Ezzat revealed that his next plan was to perform Umrah he was also inspired by the philanthropic attitude of Prophet Muhammad peace be upon him and aspires to devote his time to relieving the poor spending time with orphans and working with many charities Al-Hajj Al-Sharzuri says he's going to walk side by side with his friend starting by covering all of his costs of performing Umrah as a gift he also vows to work together with Ezzat on all his charitable feats Subhanallah this is exactly why our Prophet Muhammad peace be upon him stressed on the importance of brotherhood Abdullah bin Umrah reported the messenger of Allah peace and blessings be upon him said the Muslim is a brother to another Muslim he doesn't wrong him nor surrender him whoever fulfills the needs of his brother Allah will fulfill his needs whoever relieves a Muslim from distress Allah will relieve him from distress on the day of resurrection whoever covers the faults of a Muslim Allah will cover his faults on the day of resurrection we can all learn from Al-Hajj Al-Sharzuri's act of goodwill it is up to us to honour the face of Islam in a world where faith is seen as a weakness and be moral in living a life of discipline that's what weakness is now when you're living a worldwide life where you live the way you like and you do anything you like you are strong that is the irony but guys it doesn't work that way if you're truly strong you are going to be disciplined you are going to have something to do with an un-sing-creator and you are going to have focus and direction these are three elements of real stress well guys thank you so much for being part of the show today don't forget to like this video share it to a lot of people and see you next time assalamu alaikum


Hi and welcome to this week's episode of Off the Hill, the ANU's weekly look at what's been happening in this 2016 federal election campaign and it's the last week of the campaign and we're finally here. Joining me today as always I've got Dr. Andrew Hughes, political marketing expert and with me on my left I've got Maria Teflaga who is an expert on opposition parties and how they make policy, particularly in Australia. So we've got a lot to talk about today We're going to have a look back on the campaign that was and then hopefully give you a few tips about what to look for on Saturday night. Okay, let's start. I have been amazed this week to see how quickly after Brexit and we touched on Brexit last week how quickly the Liberals are pivoted to this message of stability afterwards. It was 24 hours and they've gone from jobs and growth, jobs and growth. No, uncertain times. I, to be honest, did not think voters in Australia would care about Brexit. My gut feel is that they've had polling overnight. You'd know more about this kind of thing. I reckon they've tested this over Friday night last week and they've found, okay, voters are worried. We need to talk about stability. It's almost comical. It's almost like character-chewer kind stuff. The extent to which they're emphasizing stability now. They've literally picked up this message of stay-on message. I don't know. I think they've been talking about stability for the entire campaign. If it's not, don't vote for minor parties, the greening of labour, don't change horses in midstream. I think this is just the sort of cherry on top for them. Reminds everyone about economic management and that we're a stable pair of hands. Don't trust the irresponsible labour party. That was so nuanced, though. Was it? Compared to what it is now, right? It's the last couple of days. I guess they've got nothing else to lose. There's no time for nuance. There's no time for nuance. And they're certainly not even feigning nuance, right? But why? That's the thing. We're in the blackout period, too. Now you can really let all the key words from the leaders come out like we saw today in the press club from Malcolm Turnbull. And how he really spoke hard on that Brexit message. For once in the campaign, we're certainly hearing fear from the coalition. We're doing positive all the way through. Remember, when in the blackout period, you can't run out on this. So what they have to do instead is get you to imagine the fear. And I think that's been a really key part of the last few days. I wouldn't have thought about that and you've enlightened me. Hang on, I'm having a heart attack these two points. We'll mark this moment. And it's gone. But this is the picture that they've tried to present on all of the soft news they've done this week, too, right? Kitchen cabinet, press club today. Look, and hats off to the coalition. I'm going to say that right now. For my money, they've run the best campaign out of all the parties this election. They really have. It's been strong all the way through. So what do you think are their specific strengths and weaknesses? Consistently positive. They haven't engaged Labor on Labor's areas of brand strengths, dare I say it as a marketer. They haven't really said anything to give Labor that traction they've been looking for, momentum they've been looking for. They haven't been sucked into a fight. Some figures I did yesterday looked at. They've done 14 negative ads this campaign, but 27 positive for the coalition. Whereas the Labor Party have done 27 positive and 21 negative. So it's, you know, that's a high number, right? That is huge. Weaknesses? Yeah, weaknesses for the coalition. I think they've missed the opportunity to put some killer blows on Labor in a couple key areas where they're strong on, for example, national security, for example, border control, for example, the economy. They could have gone really hard there. And I think in some ways they've given a bit more space on the far right there for those independent parties and minor parties that come in and sort of circle around those areas. So we'll see how that plays out of the election. Yeah, I think we will. I've been to the ALP and I have been very critical of the ALP throughout these, throughout these videos, I think, that they haven't, they haven't had a vision either.  It's been a vague idea about Medicare because as I've explained, as long as voters think about health, as long as they think that's the most important issue, they think that the ALP is better place to govern in the area of health. Maria, you've published an opinion piece today that totally disagrees with me and I want you to justify it. Well, well, I would say that it's a matter of degrees. I would say that the Labour Party has run a bigger target campaign than we have seen for many a year. Was it Rudd, the ultimate big target though? No, I mean his whole election was on a campaign of, I'm everything you like about John Howard and also some new stuff on the side. Whereas, I mean, I think for Labour, you know, to go to a campaign advocating for changes to innovative gearing, to basically back in a carbon tax, to advocate spending on a much larger scale, you know, they're basically arguing for greater intervention by the state into people's lives. Labour values. Absolutely. And they've given us a lot more detail and taken a lot more risks than oppositions have in the last couple of elections. Again, you know, going to the polls with a policy to change negative gearing, a giant shibboleth and bugbear that has been in the too hard basket for 30 years, let's say that's a little bit brave. Is it just a populist reaction though, housing affordability concerns? No, because I think that negative gearing can be problematic across their own base as well as the opposition's base. Yeah, I think you're probably right. There's the aspiration factor there. You convinced me somewhat. Yes! I'm really harsh today. It's the last week of the campaign yourself. Yep, Andrew, what do you think about the ALP's campaign? Look, to support it from the word go, because I always thought that having started the campaign saying we've got 100 positive policies, why not then run a positive message after that saying, look, this is linked into our 100 positive policies, as it were. Is the bus positive? Maria, what do you think have been strengths and weaknesses of the ALP campaign? Well, I think for the ALP, it's reminding everyone about why they may have ever voted Labour in the past. So it's a return to brand to use Andrew's language. Yes, yes. This day is epic in my book. Epic! But yeah, it's reminding everyone of Labour values, putting people first, spending measures, that's what they do best. The weaknesses? Who trust them to add it all up. I think they're struggled on the economic credibility front, and I think that's the problem for Labour. But they always do. That's an eternal Labour problem. That is their eternal problem. Let's talk about costings. I know none of us probably want to. Listeners probably don't really want us to, but it's really important, right? Both parties have released their costings in the last week. They've just thrown them out while everyone's looking somewhere else. I've got two questions for both of you. Why do they do it? And when they do it, why do they make them so precise? It's trying to prove that they're good at economic management. They're trying to say, look, we've gone to that level of degree. Of course it doesn't. Because who's that involved with economic policy in the first place? Economists. Or we want. Yeah, but they are. But true. Yes, hats off to the economists in the room. Is there any? There's none. No, they're not here at the moment. They're just looking at themselves. But looking at how they've done their costings, you think, okay, this should be a key part of your strength, right? Your brand strength, if you're the coalition, is, hey, we do the economy. That's what we do. But all they've done here is the minimum necessary. That's it. And Malcolm Turnbull comes out today and it's on Kitchen Cabinet for those people who haven't seen it yet. Where he talks about the fact he regrets how he put all everything on the table when it came to tax reform. Because it made him seem like he wasn't organised in control. It's like going, oh, hang on. I can't do it. I'm just the Prime Minister.  And they had to get that credibility back somehow. And Labour missed that chance to really go after them on that. And the costings certainly haven't helped. So why so precise? Yeah. Well, I mean, it raises important implications. Like, what's the point of having policy debates at all? But, you know, why so precise? Well, I mean, as I understand it, we've sort of gotten into it. We'd like historically gotten into a situation where we predict to point figures, whereas, you know, in other countries, they predict within ranges. And so we have silly debates about whether or not four castings are out by what, in most places, is considered the margin of error. Yeah. So there is a really important discussion to be had there. Like, you know, what are we actually trying to achieve with costings? And maybe we could have a better, more sophisticated debate if we didn't focus on exactly how wrong is this forecast going to be. That would, I mean, a really comprehensive debate would also have to include, you know, the fundamentals of economic modeling. Yeah. And the assumption standard. Yeah. It's an incredibly, I mean, it's a social science. It's not a hard science. Yeah. And look across the Tasman and John Key earlier this year, sorry, before the last election, he announced his budget and put up for a discussion. So before it being put up in the parliament, he said, this is up for discussion how we should run the country. He's done some cool things. That's right. I love that. My final thoughts. Two seats to watch. Yeah. Lindsay and Inamonero. They're my seats I put down. Lindsay is... You haven't gone, that's completely safe. I know. The ultimate bellwether in the ultimate Western Sydney seat. Yeah. But what should we look for? Come on. Bellwether really, I think Peter Handy is in trouble. Yeah. I really think the bellwether status has gone. And look, if you're looking for a prediction, I'm happy to give one, Turnbull Just. Why not? But the more interesting part of the campaign, I think, on Saturday Night, is how the Senate's going to play out. We've all talked about the Xenophon effect. Finally, we see how people have voted on that exact factor, whether he can get up in the lower house, whether he can get up in the Senate. I think all that talk ends come Saturday Night when you start to see the results come through. We're going to see some wacky Senate. We are. We are. Chappers. South Australia. What's going to happen in South Australia with the Xenophon effect? The reality is, is that several seats are in trouble for both the government and Mayo, for example, for the government, Adelaide for Labor. And I don't think anyone really knows how the preference flows are going to work from that. So that'll be fine. In the lower house. In the lower house. If we see Xenophon candidates in the lower house. What's going to happen? I think we should look for results in Batman. See if David Feeney leaves the seats to the Greens. Melbourne Ports is always really interesting. The ALP's got a sort of tenuous hold on that. That's a good name for a seat. For I'm from, the Outer East. La Trobe, Bruce, always interesting. We don't give these seats much attention nationally. But they can, they can, you know, they can win government. So be looking in the outskirts of Victoria. Outskirts of Melbourne is my prediction. Thanks again for watching. We're going to return on Monday for hopefully a fairly brief wrap up of the election results. So that might depend on what exactly happens on Saturday night. Keep posted to our Twitter feed, our Facebook and the website to find out exact details of that. And we'll see you then.


Hello everyone, I am Dr. Archana. I am the Associate Consultant Infectious Disease Specialist at Manipal Hospital, Oral Airport Road, Bangalore. Tuberculosis is a chronic infection which is caused by inhalation of mycobacterium tuberculosis bacterium in children. So the most common form of tuberculosis which is seen in children is pulmonary tuberculosis. Having said this, among children the most fatal and serious form of tuberculosis can be seen especially in less than 2 years of age. They being the disseminated form of tuberculosis which is called as miliary tuberculosis and also tuberculosis of the brain and its coverings which is called as TB meningitis. Also the tuberculosis in children do not spread very frequently as seen in adults. This is because the bacterial load among the children is less when compared to adults.


Hello. Hello. Good morning. Afternoon or evening, we'll get started about five past. All right. Thanks. Morning morning. They can. So far I see you. Camille and Sam right now we're waiting for Alexis. Oh, Jonathan bulls here too. Is a Brian control. Yep, I'm here. Morning. Hey, Chris. All right, we'll get started in a couple more minutes. Chris, if you put the link in the slack. Yes. Oh, thanks. Is Ben Brian. Grant or solemn in here. Let's see them right now. Given another minute, I know Brian Grant sometimes late. Chris songs not on the to see anymore. That's true, but it's his last quote unquote last he said he was going to show up. All right, it's about five past. I think we've waited long enough. Lexus, you want to get started with that six members of the to see on. Hey, thanks very much Chris. Good morning or good afternoon everybody. Welcome back to the meeting. I'm sorry I've been away for such a long time. Let's just jump straight into the agenda. And we're going to go through presentations today and we're going to discuss the Prometheus graduation. A bit of working group stuff and of course the announcements of the to see the results. Let's let's do that first Chris. Actually, you've got the keep announcement first. What is this slide six. Yeah, this is basically I'm just letting people know we're canceling our meeting on May 1st. It's just a lot of sort of the conference and instead we're going to do kind of boot hours. So folks like Alexis and I will have office hours at the CNCF booth for people that want to talk to to see members. I don't know who else on the to see is going at cube con, but it would be nice to know so I could add you to the office hours list. I'll be there Chris. Yeah, okay. Feel free to reach out to me over email for those that are on the to see that want to be on the on the office hours. I mean, it would be good for anyone who's a to see contributor to meet other members of the to see. So I think, you know, we should continue to strive to bring people together. I don't know what you and Dan feel about doing something, maybe attaching something to the GB get together. Perhaps you could buy everybody a glass of something fizzy. Okay. Yeah. Sounds like sounds like an idea. Cool. Okay, so let's go on to the election results. Now Chris correct me if I'm wrong, but this is these results are voted on by the other members of the to see. Yep. Vetted candidates who step forward and are the two seats that are elected by the to see from those vetted candidates. Correct. And they stand for one year. They run for one year and two years. Correct. Yep. Okay. Well, first we can make the announcement that Brian Grant was reelected in Quinton who was elected as for the second seats. So Solomon is no longer a to see member and we want to wish him the best and thank him for a service since this whole thing was getting started. So there's 10 total candidates that are in. So thank you to everyone there. I'm sure that's the time to decide who gets the two year term versus one year term seat. So I'm just going to go share my screen really quick. See if everyone sees this. Are we confident there's no CGI at work here. Yeah, I hope so. Everyone see my screen. I'll take that as a yes. All right. I'm going to go flip. All right. I'm going to go back to the slide. You know, how many, how many folks we have to do before we just head's it's done. So going back to the slides. So Brian gets the two year term and Quinton gets the one year term. So I will stop sharing my screen and we'll go back to Alexis. So thanks for participating. Everyone. Thank you. I really, really want to thank Solomon who I know he hasn't done to make every single meeting or even, you know, it's kind of similar meetings, but I do believe that Docker lending then support wholeheartedly to this process at a crucial stage and very important for the evolution of the CNCS. And please note that most of that originated from Solomon. He was the person who bought into the vision of having this community and Docker being part of it. And I think it's very important to recognize. Thank you very much, Solomon. Also, congratulations to all the candidates. We had a really strong field with some very close voting. Please, please do not be disheartened. If you didn't get, you know, what you wanted. Stand again, please keep helping. We really need your help to make this a success, whether you have a vote or not. So I'm going to move on to the next slide now. We're going to talk about primitives for graduation review. In my opinion, having originally sponsored the project, it has done more than enough to graduate. The number of maintainers has grown. One of the girls that Chris and Diane and I and the maintainers had a year ago when we convened at KimCon in Berlin. But one thing I will say is that Prometheus is still in need of a lot of help. This is a project which doesn't get all the limelight like Kubernetes does. If you know people who say, how can I contribute to CNCF if I'm a developer, there's plenty of work to do on Prometheus. You don't have to send everybody to Kubernetes. There are other projects as well. So I voted plus one for this. Anything else we need to say at this point, Chris, on this particular topic? Vote is live. Feel free to make any comments on the mailing list or GitHub issues if you have concerns. Please vote. Thank you. Okay. Thanks. Right. Next topic. The working group process. Yeah. So I could speak quickly on this one, Alexis. So we've been approached by a couple of folks that want to propose new working groups and we don't really have a formalized process where someone could just issue a PR like they do with project proposals. So this is just basically solidifying kind of what we expect folks to do. So I took our existing working groups and basically sketched out what their proposals looked like when they first came forward and outlined them. And now moving forward, we'll have a simple process where folks could actually submit a PR and present and, you know, comment and vote on like we typically do with projects. Any comments, anyone? So my big concern with the working group process is that while well meant, we haven't, you know, we don't have a system for working groups and, you know, we've reached the point now where we've explored the space a bit. We've kicked the tires. We've experimented. We've seen a few successes, a few non-successes. And now we need to get serious about it. So if anyone would like to help me and Chris to figure that out with a written document, I would really appreciate it. So please send Chris an email volunteering to help. This is a TOC contributor opportunity. Or if you have a vote or if you've recently been elected or re-elected, this could be a great chance to prove that everyone made the right decision. But please do help. This is an important area. Without some clarity, working groups will stutter. They can't continue forever based on energy alone. So what exactly are you asking for? People to volunteer to help me and Chris write down a document with a bit more structure around what is a working group, how it's supposed to run, what its objective should be, how to propose it and things like that. Are, is explosion of working groups a concern? Or do you think that's a good, a fine and good thing? I think a greater concern for me is that some of the working groups have, are not quite sure what to do next. And what their, you know, what the exit and success criteria are rather than an explosion. So this is Dan Shell, we're presenting, you know, safe working group proposal later in this meeting. I don't think that, you know, I'm necessarily in a position to help in this definition, but I want to sort of raise our hand as we're going through the process to be a guinea pig and fodder for, you know, testing this process and working through that. So, you know, please feel free to lean on us, you know, in that process. And, you know, we'll help document along the way. If we have a partner in the TFC. Thank you. Yeah, Alex, you can count on me to help you guys out. I mean, that's my ideas based on the workgroup effort so far. Appreciate that. Thanks. Okay. Great. Okay, the next slide is project proposals. So we have tally presence and open messaging coming up with the Sandbox. I should just say a word about, I know we had this show of hands vote on Sandbox versus some other names. There was an even split between Sandbox and workshop, and people seem to be settling down around Sandbox. So I think that kind of concludes that discussion. There wasn't a clear, clear vote for an alternative I'm afraid.  So we have the two proposals for the newly named junior tier coming in. I'm the sponsor of tally presence. I have interviewed several customers of the project and users, and I'm quite impressed. It does fit Sandbox well in the sense that it's not completely obvious that it shouldn't be part of a larger project or go in really what direction to go into. But I feel that it shows the right kind of green shoots of a young project to deserve backing at Sandbox level. So I'm just going to go ahead and give you a little bit of a quick overview of who is going to stick up their hand for open messaging, Chris. No one yet. Okay. So that one's looking for a sponsor. Should we go straight into Richard's presentation? Sure. Can everyone hear me? I can hear you, Richard. Yeah. I've been clear. All right. So, so I'll start in slide 12. So the problem that we're trying to solve with telepresence is just improving the experience of the app dev on Kubernetes. So I'm going to talk a little bit about the development environment for Kubernetes. You essentially have two major choices. One is local development using something like mini cube or Docker compose or now Docker for Mac. The pros are you don't need a network. You're isolated from other developers.  You can use all your local tools like your IDE or auto reload with some configuration. You can't run resource hungry services, right? So as soon as your application goes beyond a few services or maybe one service, if you're using Java, your laptop starts to get really hot and it starts to melt down. And so the alternative then is cloud development where you run Kubernetes in cloud and then you have some sort of deployment system like scaffold or draft or CI or something. Any of these things. The pro is that you can guarantee that your production environment and your development environment are exactly the same. You can run the exact same version of Kubernetes in the exact same place. The challenge is that it requires a network. You can't use your local development tools. There's a higher latency. So you have to push to registry and do all these things and developers sort of an inpatient bunch. And so on slide 13, so this is why we created telepresence. So telepresence is a hybrid model. You essentially run all your dependencies, your services, your databases and applications in Kubernetes in the cloud or locally, depending on your configuration, but typically it's in the cloud. And then the service that you're actually coding on or set of services, you were actually run locally in a container or directly on your laptop. And the benefit is you're able to use your development tools like your IDE, your debugger, auto reload, curl, et cetera. And by running the rest of your application in the cloud, you can actually use cloud databases and you have access to unlimited compute and memory. So on slide 14, the way this works is we deploy a two-way proxy on the Kubernetes cluster. And we also run a client locally on your laptop to connect to the proxy and we expose things like config maps, secrets, access to other services. We also let you proxy to other cloud resources like, for example, Amazon RDS or any other sort of cloud database. We actually, telepresence has really grown organically. So we actually have currently three different methods of proxying, which we are trying to figure out when we recommend one versus the other. We have a VPN type approach, which uses S Shuttle, which is a VPN of RSSH. We started with this method called Inject TCP, which injects a shared library by hacking LD preload on Linux or dinlib on Mac into sub-process. The benefit of Inject TCP is it works with your existing VPN. And then we also use, we also support using Docker run directly, which lets us hijack and take advantage of Docker's networking capabilities instead of maintaining a VPN of our own. So that's generally how it works on slide 15. So we have about 700 stars and growing pretty steadily on GitHub. We have a bunch of users. Bitnami is actually, and I see ours on the call, she's giving a talk at KubeCon about how they use telepresence with KubeApps, namely, company at New York City has actually integrated telepresence with Istio. We've got a couple case studies from some other companies that use site machine users telepresence because they run a lot of ML. And the ML programs don't work well running locally in your laptop, but they also want to use PyCharm, the IDE. And then we also have a variety of non-public enterprise users who I'm happy to talk about off-list. And like I said, the common use cases that we see are people are, they want to use IDEs or their laptop isn't powerful enough to run everything in Minicube. So a lot of people start with Minicube and then they run out of memory and they start looking for something else. So last slide on telepresence. So our interest in CNCF is we're really focused on the app developer trying to reduce that friction and building multi-service applications on Kubernetes and sort of, there's been a bunch of threads. We've been talking a lot with the scaffold team, but we really would like to try to grow the Kubernetes app dev community in general. We think that's sort of one of the big next frontiers in conversation around how do we improve. And there's lots of stuff going on with the application CRD and the app dev working group and developer tools and workflow. I just think from our own experience that the maturity of the developer experience on Kubernetes is definitely a work in progress. We also would like to expand the telepresence community. So the core maintainers all work at DataWire today. We'd like to expand to other maintainers. We have some maintainers who work on very relatively small parts of the system. Like we have someone who helps with open shift support and we have someone who packages telepresence for specific Linux distributions, but we'd love to get some more core maintainers and also more users who can help each other because there is a lot of sort of best practices and configuration and we don't use every single IDE under the sun. So yeah, so that's the basics. I'm happy to take any questions. Yeah, I had a quick question. It seems that, so you do need a network connection from your laptop to the cloud in order to use this. And given that, I guess one alternative approach would be to run the IDEs on the cloud and use like a virtual desktop, remote desktop kind of tool to get to the IDE. Did you consider that approach as an alternative? It seems a lot simpler, but I can see some downsides. Did you think about that at all or weigh it up? We honestly, we started telepresence as just a prototype and we didn't spend a whole bunch of time thinking about it. So the honest answer is we didn't really consider running your IDE in the cloud. Since then we sort of thought about it and it seems to be a little complicated. And also with some of the things, I should have actually talked a little bit about some of the things that we are actually working on because probably the biggest piece of feedback people want is faster startup and better reliability over poor network connections. So we're actually working on things like auto reconnect and speeding up the startup process because right now starting up a telepresence process takes 20 to 30 seconds and it really doesn't need to. So we're trying to get it down to two or three seconds. And I think that deploying your IDE remotely would probably be harder to do with that setup. So if you don't mind quitting, I can probably add on to that. For those of you who don't know me, Matt Farina, I do SIG apps over in Kubernetes. I work on a lot of the app tooling. So when it comes to IDEs though, Visual Studio Code is the most popular from the latest surveys. There's Vim versus Emacs debates. This for developers is a really personal thing. And I think the popular dev tools like this are all still desktop based. The cloud based ones haven't taken off as much as the traditional desktop ones that we have all used. And so I like that telepresence hooks up this way because it's not forcing you to use a different IDE. It kind of meets you where you're already at. Just to be clear, I wasn't suggesting using a cloud based IDE. I was suggesting just running an IDE on essentially a desktop in the cloud and then using a remote desktop technology to get to it. Not running a cloud IDE. So running exactly the IDE that you normally run, but just don't run it on your laptop, run it on a cloud server. Yeah, and I think that's an interesting proposal. And I have to say we just haven't thought too much about it. But yeah, so I don't have a great answer for you. So other than we have a thing that works now. Thanks. Richard, maybe one other point of clarification. The debugging that this facilitates using your local development environment and your local tools. This doesn't extend to distributed debugging scenario where you were able to debug services that are running on the remote cluster.  Right. And in their IDE and things like that. So it's really debugging scope to your single service. But we, we don't really touch anything around, say distributed tracing, for example. Yeah. Anyone? There's a question about volume out since the container is running locally. So, so one of the things we actually support is if you're using the container method, if we actually let you, I mean, we just pass through incantations Docker run. And so if you want to do a local volume out into your container, that's one way you can actually support hot reload with your IDE. So you can save to your local file system. That volume is mounted into the container. And that actually gets proxied to proxied into your Kubernetes cluster. So, so that's a technique we use for auto reload. It's a little trickier if you want to use a debugger. So just elaborate on that though. Are you saying that you can or you cannot share a volume between your local development and the thing running in the cloud? You can. Okay. Thank you. Yep. All right. Well, thanks everyone. What, what, what do you kind of expect the project to end up looking like, you know, down the road when it's been in the sandbox for a while, coming out of the sandbox, you expect it to end up being a standalone tool or some sort of library that gets integrated into ideas or, or what kind of thing would you expect going forward? I think this to me, this is a grand experiment, right? And this is one reason why I like the sandbox concept because we're not sure if it may, it will ultimately live as a standalone. We think it's useful functionality. That's important that people will use, but we can see it being integrated into a larger projects or it could be maintained as a standalone thing and more functionality will be added over time. And that's one reason why we would be very happy to just get more users to see sort of what the trends are. Because right now I can tell you the trends are IDEs and mini cube and I can't put enough RAM into my laptop, but that may not be true as we grow. And so, so I certainly don't think we're ready for whatever the incubation, I think. Yeah, so, so, so the short answer is we don't know and we're very curious to find out. Richard, last question from me and that's maybe this is obvious in the documentation, but I'm only seeing references to mini cube as the where you would run your local services. Is, is that correct? There's a dependency there and that's kind of the only supported local cluster. That's the only supported local cluster, but that would be and there's some people who use that configuration, but that's more of an anomaly. Usually your Kubernetes cluster would be running in the cloud and then you would run the service that you're coding as a local process on your laptop, not if that, if that makes sense. Right, so you can run it locally on your laptop or run it locally on your laptop inside a container. So those are the two most common methods and then everything else runs in a Kubernetes cluster, not on your laptop. I like this idea and I'm willing to be the other TOC sponsor. Super, thank you. Hey, Richard. I know Camille's not requesting this, but I think it would make sense for her to be put in touch with the same people that I spoke to as your end users. Sure, yeah, that's happy. I'm happy to do that. Anyone else? Okay. I think we are moving on to the safe working group proposal. Thank you very much, Richard. All right. So we're going to start on slide 17 and bop into 18 pretty much right away. Hi, everyone. I'm Dan Shaw. I'm joined today by JJ and Sarah Allen. We are the co-conspirators that have been pulling together this working group proposal that centers around secure access to build, you know, now that we have our infrastructure sort of elevated into the cloud, we all have shared visibility from operators to administrators to developers to DevOps to that cloud infrastructure. And our group has identified that, you know, it's there. We have access to it. But what's lacking is a shared vocabulary and shared mechanisms to convey that system integrity to understand that we do indeed have secure for all of those parties, the access and a safe system that we're working with. So JJ, we'll take over for slide 19. Thanks, Chris and Alex for having us over here. So like what Dan mentioned, I'll go over a little bit of what safe is about little history and why is part of it. We believe secure access is an end to end concern in a heterogeneous system. So security solved within a system doesn't actually lend itself to providing a full-on end to insecurity. We've seen this several times in several systems and we all believe that this needs to be addressed as a common concern. So the idea is to understand the common problems around security with all these infrastructures and then centralize infrastructure, which to some extent is already happening with Spiffy and Opa and a few other projects, but then that needs to get centralized. And that's the vision and the idea with which we're driving this effort towards. A little bit of history is this appeared as a common problem way back when I was brainstorming with Chris last summer. So obviously we weren't ready for it at that time and many of us organically came together over time to address this as a problem. And a quick note on why us. I'll be happy to address any of the pointed questions after that, but I just wanted to give you a brief overview of what we're trying to accomplish here. Why us? Many of us who have come here has previously built security infrastructure at scale in some of these companies like people from Netflix, CloudFoundry, Google, and I think Torrance here as well Opa. So a lot of people have faced customers, faced real problems and a lot of us understand that this is a common cross cutting concern across heterogeneous infrastructure. So and with this collective knowledge, we hope you'll be able to address many of the system architecture that's required for an end to end secure access. Come up with common vocabulary to help define us into insecurity. And we also believe like there are lots of gaps and libraries and protocols that needs to be introduced or built to enable a full on end to end secure infrastructure. And the idea is like this empathizes more with the operators and developers as the workflow happens. So security becomes built in process along the way. I'll touch briefly upon how we plan on go about doing it and we'd be happy to take any comments on this and suggestions to improve this process. We had a draft charter which we have it done and then the vision statements all there. We went through discovery where a lot of people including people from NASD presented their use cases and their understanding of what secure access means. And you've gathered a lot of it in the document. It's still an ongoing process. And with that I'll hand it over to Sarah who will carry us through the details of how we are planning about doing it. For those that are playing along at home we're on slide 20. Sorry I was on mute. Thanks JJ and Dan. So I'm going to talk about primarily this sort of steps two, three and four and how we get to having some clear recommendations in this space which is actually pretty fractured right now. And I think there's a lot of projects in the CNCF which are doing good work in this area. But like JJ says that we are going to slide 21, like how do we pull together a secure system? How do we even describe it when, you know, if we have Spiffy and we have Opa, those aren't themselves enough. Like they have to probably be combined with other things and there's a lot of people who have strong opinions in this area. So we've come up with this process that seems to be working really well that we've been doing like Dan said since January where almost every week we have a presentation from one of the members or our guests where people will share the problems that they're experiencing, the solutions that they have, where they see what's leading them to want to collaborate or what's working for them. And often we'll have like a half an hour presentation and a half hour discussion which means that we're pulling these use cases out of data that's more than coming from our experience and more than what's in our head, which means that we are all discovering together, which is just turned into like a really nice community exercise where we're all having deeper learning in the space that is beyond our own experience and we're all curious about these systems that we each, our developing software that needs to interoperate or in some cases are deploying them into these systems together. So that's really the discover phase that we're in when we finish up these use cases, then we'll attempt to draw some kind of diagram. Some people in the working group thinks we can't have one, maybe there are three. We don't know exactly what it is, but after we have these use cases, we will at least attempt to make a draft of that. And we think that by breaking up into these three phases that'll kind of help keep us focused and help feel like there's momentum because we expect this to be a little bit of a process, a time consuming process, but with artifacts emerging from the process, every couple of months, we think that even though it takes a long time, that it can be very fruitful in the interim. So the second phase is really looking at standards because there are a lot of standards in this space. We'll look at the CNCF project, see which standards are widely adopted, whether there are clear winners that are working for the community and we can just highlight those in a clear way, whether it's fractured, whether people are adopting different standards and thereby not interoperable. And out of that process, really we find the common definitions and come up with a vocabulary or glossary in this space because like in many of these cloud native technologies, people are using different words to mean the same thing or overlapping definitions and terminology. And then we can call back to the use cases and see where they're used potentially. And so after that kind of cataloging of the standards and protocols and definitions, the next step is to really catalog the projects. What are people using in terms of software solution, which CNCF projects are related, and fill in the boxes so that we end up with really sketching out what this ecosystem is and what we want it to be. And we anticipate that there are some gaps. There are some that each of us is motivated to come to this working group because we see gaps. We don't necessarily agree on what those are right now, but by the time we get to phase four, we think having that shared vocabulary and having a deeper understanding of the space that's written down, we think that we can clarify what those gaps are and they may be improvements that we might say that this project, we recommend adopt this protocol that four other projects use, or it might be that there's a project missing or a library missing or we're open to what those gaps are. And what we want to do is by pulling together as a community that we can focus on making some recommendations about filling those gaps in a way that's going to be efficient to getting us to this end-to-end security that crosses clouds and crosses on-prem and the cloud providers, which we all see as a critical concern for anybody who's doing substantial cloud-native apps. So this all culminates in a recommendation.  Great. So that'll land us on slide 22. So with that, with the context that this group that's been gathering since, basically Kuba Khan in Austin last year and meeting regularly this past quarter, I thought that that interest in this cross-cutting concern of safety is a great fit for the CNCM a couple of non-goals. We're not here to choose a single provider or single security technology. And obviously we aren't a standard body for creating standards. But we are a broad group of concerns across the cloud ecosystem. And we'd love to bring this to the CNCM and our asks are specifically, we'd like to get as many use cases in. We've already gone through a few, had some great presentations from the folks at NIST, Cloud Foundry and Google. And we'd love the opportunity in this discovery phase to work with members and projects and integrate that into this broader safety story. And we're looking for a TLC sponsor that is going to join us for a fairly long journey. So I want to make sure that you're aware upfront that we expect this to be a bit of a process, not an infinite process, but a better part of the year. Thank you very much. Now we'll open the boxes. I have a question. If there was a security project that was in the sandbox or incubation, just doing open source code, what would you like your relationship to be? So at present, I believe what we can offer to that group is to listen and provide feedback in terms of the data that we've collected so far. But at present, we are not in a position to direct or add towards the solution. So we can partner, we can help them gain perspective on some of the other concerns, other peers that they may have in the cloud-native ecosystem, but we would not be mature enough as a working group to provide any explicit feedback or any explicit direction. So I thought about this a little bit. I think everything Dan says is right. We want to set expectations that we are nascent. We've got a group of people that are coming together for a purpose and have, for many of us, an hour or a week plus the async activities is a significant time commitment. However, we think that by being a CNCF working group, we could potentially provide a structure where we say that anybody who, any new project that seems related, we would invite them to just sign up for a presentation. So then instead of us going and finding everyone, we would just have this steady stream. And so we would offer the TOC that after that presentation, we'd record it, we would write our summary, and in the discovery phase, that's pretty much all we would do. We would, the observations of the people of the working group. Later, we would be able to place this project in our diagram, in the landscape, and we would ask them to validate, is this feel like where you belong, right? And so we would, it's not like new projects are adopted every week or something. So there's a pace that I think would be reasonable. And then so the new projects are fitting themselves into the landscape, and then we're echoing that back to the TOC. We wouldn't have to present in a meeting or anything, but anyone could check in on that progress. And it might contribute to, it certainly would have helped me when Spiffy was being proposed, I tried to review it, and it took me a long time to see where it lived in the identity landscape. So that's an idea. So specifically, specifically to address the two projects that Alex has asked about in CNCF, I am part of Spiffy Six-Spec. So I'm working on it, and I bring in the perspective from there. I've been fairly involved in giving comments and feedback to OPA from way early on, and Torin is part of this working group already. So as far as those two projects are concerned, we're good to go. And for the new ones, we would like to have a similar or deeper integration with the newer projects. So we can actually flow back and forth the information. If not, we'd have to identify and understand like what Sarah and Dan were saying to make them present and us getting involved in that project. I had a question and or comment depending on which way you look at it. So a lot of this work has de facto happened in the SIG-Auth special interest group inside Kubernetes. It's not, you know, its mandate is not the same as this working group, but de facto for lack of a better place. These are where most of these discussions have been happening. So question, what is the relationship between this working group and SIG-Auth in Kubernetes? Or stated another way, I think that it would be very beneficial to have a very close working relationship between those two groups. Otherwise, we're going to end up with, you know, two bodies doing very significantly overlapping work, potentially diverging. So I'll let Sarah or JJ speak to SIG-Auth, you know, specifically. But another Kubernetes group, SIG Policy, we've already begun sort of cross-pollinating with that group. So yes, all the work that's happening in Kubernetes is kind of leading a lot of the direction that's happening.  And, you know, while some of this, including myself, may believe that the Kubernetes is the eventual future, you know, it is, you know, an implementation. So, you know, with this working group, we really want to be the clearinghouse for those cross-cutting safety concerns and bring those together, bring the interests of SIG-Auth, bring the interests of SIG Policy into this overarching safety concern and, you know, collaborate with those groups. JJ or Sarah, do you have anything to add? Well, I think that, like, in some ways, I haven't been involved in those working groups, but, like, we will do both less and more, right? Because it certainly initially, we're not going to get into the details of specific implementations and how that ties into, you know, the different, you know, like how we'll have representatives from Google. We won't dive into how it works inside of Google. We'll have representatives of Kubernetes and vice versa. And so we're already excited to have people involved in both groups on the policy side. And I don't know, JJ, is there anybody involved in the offside or do we need to reach out there? No, I think I've been in touch with Jordan Leggett and Jordan Leggett is aware of this. And I don't know if anybody else in SIG-Auth, of course, Joe Beda is aware of this, but I don't know if anybody else that I know of that is aware of this effort. But certainly, the idea is to, like, reach out to them and then get this cross-pollinated, like what Dan and Sarah are saying. And also, there is, we've also noticed, like, a bunch of the discussions around A-back versus R-back versus, like, other things happening in quite a number of places, whether it's in SIG-Auth, SIG-Policy, Spiffy, Opa, which are all the same discussion happening in multiple different places. But then it's something that we can actually, we feel like we can solidify a structured conversation and a structured understanding of what this means within this group.  They'll fit in well with the rest of the folks. I don't quite understand the overall scope. It's access control, but safety is a very vague term. And so I'm not sure what it covers and what it doesn't cover. Also, obviously, we've got nature in tough NCNCF, which are obviously concerned to some extent with access control, but in a slightly different way. I'm not sure if those would be considered relevant or not because I don't understand the overall scope. So I didn't hear nature, what the projects you referred to were. The update framework and notary. Notary. So in terms of the scope, we've spent a lot of time wordsmithing this and it's not quite perfect. But what we found is that there's a big, it's hard to put bounds around this and this is why we need this vocabulary. For a while we were talking about policy, but policy is very expansive space. We focused on access control, but that's sort of a way of not talking about policy, which is an implementation. But it's more than access because you, there's certain configuration management, which could be a vulnerability. Like if I don't, you know, if I have, you know, quotas or so forth, and the truth is we don't know exactly what the bounds are, but we know that from the discovery we've done so far that there isn't alignment on what it means to have a secure architecture or a secure, like what it means to make sure that your system is protected in a consistent way when you have multiple pieces of software in different clouds or on-prem and cloud that have different definitions of how they secure their system. And so we want to dig in so that this is clearly defined where we're not saying, you know, we've said, okay, well, like if I deploy a piece of software and it has a vulnerability, that's out of scope, right? But that I was allowed to deploy that software and that it was configured in this way, that's in scope, right? I think, but it's generally this, like what is the secure architecture and how do we know that, how we intend to deploy it? Our intention matches the reality when I have 10,000 VMs across multiple clouds. So in short, imagine, imagine, we are imagining how it would look like if we were to implement AAA authentication authorization and auditing across heterogeneous systems with episodic access and things that needs to get addressed part of that, right? And it's a well-defined protocol, but given the complexity of the heterogeneous system, it's not a well-understood and well-structured end-to-end architecture. And that's essentially what we are after. It sounds like the Update Framework of Nature would definitely be in scope because that's controlling how you deploy software, for example. But you're saying things like intrusion detection are definitely not in scope because that's nothing to do with intended deployment, although it's tooling related to whether things behave as intended. It does feel like the concept of end-to-end is important here because it's likely to involve multiple different projects and that will kind of be addressed by a single project. Right. And I think there are a couple of things that we are not that help clarify. And I tried to get us to distill down to a single word and we went through security, right? The security working group, my goodness, that's a lot of land grab. And same thing with policy. We looked at that as like, wow, there's so many permutations out of that. So safety and the secure access gives our group focus and we have spent a lot of time in trying to get that clear. And, you know, we know that it is, you know, we would love, you know, the turn of phrase that would get everybody aligned and understand immediately what we're talking about. So we understand that as a bit of a gap. But this is the space that seems focused enough that allows us to really add a lot of value while still making progress. Okay. Well, we're low on time. I think the key next step here is for people to, well, first of all, thank you to the presenters. I think this is a difficult area. We've got a lot of different concerns from top down and bottom up. I don't want CNCF to become an organization where working groups instruct individual projects kind of what to do, because they will typically be exploring things very close to what users want. If something like this became drifted away from, for example, what's happening in, and the parts of Kubernetes that are concerned with security, that would probably be a concern because it would be unlikely that people would pay attention to the group if it was differing from what was happening in practice. So I think you'll need to figure out how to do that. And the second area is, as Justin brought up, scope. So I would strongly recommend that everybody use the GitHub issue to help the team around this proposal to clarify those two areas, please. We did see this previously with this storage group where there were, at least at the beginning, there was sort of parallel efforts around what's happening in Kubernetes APIs and what's happening in the working group. So the sooner those two things are brought together, the better for everybody. So let's take this offline and take it to GitHub and then come back in an update. Does that sound good? Great. Thank you. Anyone else want to say anything else about that? I think we've got a couple of minutes left to have an update from Ken on the reference architecture if you want to, Ken. Yeah, sure. Just for everyone on the call here, since out a couple of dates on a issues list on the CNCF GitHub. So if you would like to join, kick off me, we're going to have a meeting, I think, on Monday afternoon at two o'clock Pacific time. Set up a meeting invite on the CNCF calendar for that timeframe. And if you're able to join us, please do. And we are going to be looking at the existing reference architecture landscape work and propose next level down in detail for more of a technical reference architecture in that meeting. And all feedback and comments are welcome. So please join us if you can. And I'll just remind folks that we have a lot of users now at landscape.cncf.io or just l.cncf.io. And that is based on off of this reference architecture. So if you're able to join us, please join us. And I'll just remind folks who are not happy with the categories that we have now or think they should be combined or split up or such. It's Ken's work here that will lead to the next generation of the landscape. Okay. I think either I'm getting cut off or Dan is, but I think we reached the end of the meeting. There is no TOC on May the 1st. Repeat. No TOC on May the 1st. Can you just repeat that, Chris? Yeah, cancellation went out. Great. Thanks. Okay. Thanks everyone. Thanks everybody. Take care.