When I would go to Director Casey or even when General Seacort himself talked with Director Casey, the bureaucracy was unwilling to do what was necessary to give him the appropriate security clearances and the like. There was also by this point in time a suggestion by General Seacort that he return to the government. And Director Casey, at least as far as he talked to me about it, was enthusiastic about that. And that it was seen by myself, and I guess by Admiral Poindexter I assume that that's what it refers to, that that ought to be done. That there ought to be a cleanup, if you will, of the reputation problem that existed from as earlier and abbreviated tenure in the government. Just to make sure, to your understanding does this reference making things right for Dick in the prof message from Admiral Poindexter have anything to do with money? I don't think so. I'd like you to turn to exhibit 161. It's the next exhibit. And the part I have reference to begins at the very bottom of the first page. Dated 91786 and to get substance you have to turn to the second page. I don't have a second page, Council. You have exhibit 161? I do. I have a one page. The top part is black. No second page. If you're hampered in answering my question because of the absence of the document, say so and we'll provide it later. And we'll return to it. There is a reference in a prof message. This is the one I tried to get Casey's people to pay for as a means of covering some of Dick's debts. They have the document in front of us. We'll return to it. It's 161. We'll simply return to it. Very good. I'd like to turn now to exhibit 164. Do you have that in front of you? I do. That's a prof message of the same date, 17th of September from you to Admiral Poindexter. I'm looking at one from Admiral Poindexter to me. Look at the one below it. Okay. I see that one. Right. The first part of it deals with Iran. And down towards the bottom of the note, the middle of the bottom section of the note, there's a line that ends with the word CIA and it reads as follows. CIA could not produce an aircraft on such short notice. So Dick has chartered the aircraft through one of project democracies overseas companies. Why Dick can do something in five minutes that the CIA cannot do in two days is beyond me, but he does.  But Dick is a good soldier and never even groused about it. Was it your understanding at that time that Mr. Secord's accounts were out of money? Let me first of all try to figure out what we're talking about here. Okay. Take your time. Okay. I believe that's the transportation of the second channel to the United States. My question is, was it your understanding that his Swiss accounts were out of money at that time? It was my understanding that there was a shortage of funds to be used for this activity at that time, or I would not have put that into the record. So that confirms that it and explains why you've testified that you were surprised to learn that there was $8 million remaining? Well, I've taken your word that it's $8 million remaining. I don't know that. What I've also testified is that there were four purposes for the funds in what is referred to here as project democracy. And it was very clear that funds were to be allocated for different purposes. Whether those were in separate boxes in the same bank, I don't know. What is important to understand is I believed at several points that we were low on monies that could be used to support the Nicaraguan resistance, or at this point that monies were low to support this particular activity. Iran, the second channel. In this particular case, this is Iran. But it's also important you understand that it was always the intention to make this a self-sustaining operation and that there always be something there which you could reach out and grab when you needed it. As Director Casey said, you want something you can pull off the shelf and use in a moment's notice. And I'm not trying to excuse anybody in this thing, at least of all myself. The fact is he, General Secord, may not have known or may not have perceived that he should take funds out of this pot and put them into another one. Or that he had allocated certain funds for other purposes and didn't want to touch them. And again, I'm saying that at the point in time when I prepared that, which was on about the 17th of September, that was the information I had at the time. And where did you get that information? Well, I would guess I got it from General Secord. Orally or in some form of a report? I have absolutely no recollection. I didn't even remember the subject of this prof's note until I read the whole thing. You would agree that $8 million would be adequate to charter an airplane? I would agree, Council. Let's turn to exhibit 159. The vote is now in progress in the House of Representatives. Accordingly, members of the House may have to absent themselves. Please proceed. Do you have that in front of you? I do. That's a prof note also from Admiral Poindexter. It's dated September 13, 1986, which I believe is the same date as the one where he says, keep the pressure on Bill to make things right for Dick. At the bottom of the page, it states, also went over the Secord matters. Bill agrees Secord is a patriot. He will check into our suspicions. I told him he could get more detail from you. What is the meaning of the reference, our suspicions? I'm not absolutely certain about what that is, but I think it's probably what I referred to you earlier as, that there was a lot of internal friction within the bureaucracy about General Secord, that there were people who just didn't like him. Probably for the same reason that they don't like me. If you get things done in this bureaucracy, you step on toes. And he was certainly a man who got things done. The prof message seems to refer not to other people's suspicions, uses the word our suspicions. I'm saying our suspicions about why this problem was being created for General Secord. The bad mouth thing, as it were. And I think that's what it refers to, although I do not recall the specifics at this point. Admiral Poindexter says that Casey could get more detail from you. Well, I knew of people at his agency who kept bad mouthing him. And I knew people in other agencies who said bad things about him and who were uncooperative. Maybe I'm not understanding. What were your suspicions? My suspicions were that very often we'd have problems. For example, when we were in the midst of one of these transactions of even getting a fixed price on a commodity. Or enough of the commodity moved around. And you'd inevitably hear, well, you just can't move things here. You just can't move things there. You couldn't get an airplane out of these folks to move the second channel here to the United States for a secret meeting. And just the general lack of cooperation. From whom? From within the bureaucracy. Well, these are suspicions having to do with General Secord, aren't they? No, I'm just talking about the suspicions as to why the lack of cooperation is there. Yeah, okay. I am not certain at all that this refers to suspicions about General Secord. I'm saying our suspicions as to why people aren't cooperating in getting various things done along the line. I think the way that perhaps it looks as though I was suspicious of General Secord. That is not the intent nor do I think it was Admiral Poindexters. I mean, after all the line above, Bill agrees Secord is a patriot. And that's what I was saying. This man is a patriot. He's given extraordinary time and energy to supporting our foreign policy to carrying out this initiative. And we can't get people to cooperate undidly. Did there ever come a time when you entertained suspicions about the way in which money was being used by General Secord? I know certainly that these hearings have generated questions and suspicions and things like that. I don't recall a specific time before that. That I perceived a problem with that necessarily. Did you ever perceive a problem or hear about a problem having to do with the pricing of arms to the Contras? For the Contras. I know we had a big problem with pricing the May shipment, but that was to the Iranians. I may ask just to make it clear, I'm asking you about did you ever hear adverse reports or did you ever entertain suspicions? That you weren't getting the stray facts from General Secord about the way he was handling the pricing of arms to the Contras? No, I did hear a report from someone in Central America that General Secord was overcharging on the arms that he delivered to the resistance. And I sought at that point in time a price list from him and compared those prices to those that others had gotten. Some were higher, some were lower. And I believe at the time I talked to Adolfo Calero about it, who was at that point in time the principal recipient of the arms from General Secord. I don't recall any other, other than what you have was a very competitive environment down there. Once the U.S. government withdrew in 1984 from directly supporting the resistance, you ended up with a lot of folks out there running a very cutthroat business. There were two particular transactions or dealers that raised great concerns with Director Casey. One of them was a transaction of some five to six million dollars from a broker who he was concerned had also been involved in reverse technology transfer to the eastern block. And he told me to do everything possible to discourage further purchases. The other one was a so-called warehouse operation that was being run in a Central American country that the agency and Director Casey in particular was very concerned about the source of their monies. And the fact that this enormous warehouse of several millions of dollars worth of ordinance had been stocked up in that Central American country and the potential adverse consequences. And at one point he apprised me that he was concerned that that Central American country might have diverted ESF monies, U.S. economic support funds to the military to purchase the arms that went in that warehouse. And so he told me that there shouldn't be any further transactions with that broker until such time as he resolved where they were able to resolve where those came from. I then talked to Mr. Calero and I talked to General Secord that they should avoid those transactions. My sense is that as a consequence of the advice I got from the director to withdraw from dealing with those two dealers that a lot of people start putting out very bad word about General Secord. And I think a lot of that was brought up here to Washington. I think it was made available to certain members of Congress and I think that's where a lot of the adverse publicity came from. And the fact is that I was told by Director Casey that there should be no further dealings with those two arms brokers and to my knowledge General Secord never dealt with them. If he had up to that point he certainly didn't do it again. But that a lot of the very negative communications that came out about General Secord came out as a consequence of those two guys being cut out of the picture as it were in terms of supporting the resistance. Colonel North, did you have any interest, personal interest I'm talking about now and any of the monies that flowed from the arms sales to Iran or that were kept in Swiss accounts under General Secord's control? Not one penny. There has been testimony as I'm sure you're aware that a death benefit account was set up by Mr. Hakim with the name Button for the benefit of your family in the event of your death. Were you aware of any such account? No. Totally unaware of it. First I heard of it was through these hearings. I had never heard of it before. And it was a shock, an absolute shock. There is a testamentary document which has been introduced in evidence relating to a particular $2 million sub-account set up also by Mr. Hakim which provides that in his death General Secord can control the use of the funds and in the event of his death you can control the use of the funds and it also contains a provision that if everybody dies it will be distributed to their states. Were you aware of such a document? No. I never heard of it until these hearings started. I still don't believe it. I was shocked. And I have absolutely no idea where that all came from whatsoever. Never heard of it before. And you never heard of the idea either I take. No. Ever. I do want to make one point clear. I did at one point express concern after I would guess in February, March, April, somewhere after I'd met Mr. Hakim became aware what his role was in the financial network that had been established. I did at some point express concern to General Secord. Suppose both you guys go down on the same airplane, flitting back and forth to Europe or wherever you're going. What happens then? And I was told don't worry about it. Arrangements will be made so that these operations can continue. Nobody ever told me that a single penny was set aside for my purposes, for my benefit whatsoever. Ever. And I never heard of buttons or belly buttons until these hearings began. I'd like to separate out then the two issues raised by this will or this testamentary document. You're indicating that the portion of it that provides for the monies being distributed to the estates of the individuals is a foreign notion to you. Excuse me, Mr. Chairman. Could we please have a copy of the document? It's exhibit 169. The term will, Mr. Chairman. I believe the term has been used 50 times in these hearings prior to today. This is not a will and any lawyer in the room knows it's not a will. It's the first time I've ever seen this document. Ever. Understood. You've said that. I just want to separate out the issues. There's a part of the document that provides for distribution to individuals estates in the event of death. There's a second page. And I take it your testimony is that that concept, not only have you not seen the document, but that concept is foreign to you. You've never heard of anything like it. I've never heard of it before. I don't know how much more clearly I can put it, counsel. I never ever heard that proposal before. That suggestion. There's a second part of the document that relates simply to control over the use of the funds. And that's on the first page of it. Second paragraph. And I take it that although you never saw the document, the concept that you would control disposition of the funds, I don't mean in your personal capacity, but in your governmental capacity in the event of the death of Hakeem and Secord. That's not foreign to you, is it? Well, I never professed to have control over a single penny of this. I elicited the cooperation of General Secord. To my knowledge, he cooperated in every case with the things that we asked him to do. But I never once saw those words, nor do I want to leave you with the impression that this was what I had in mind when I said to them, what happens if both you guys drop dead? I was more than willing to have anybody else they wanted so that we could continue the activities. But I didn't necessarily wish to become the person who had to fly back and forth to Switzerland. I've never even been in a Swiss bank. There's been testimony that several thousand dollars was spent on a fence security system that was put in at your residence. And that the monies to pay for it came from General Secord. And my question to you is, were you aware, I take it there was a security system put in at your residence? There is a security system in my residence. It has since this April been sufficiently supplemented that it is now extraordinary. And I take it, were you aware that that security system was paid for by General Secord? I'm going to waffle an answer. I'm going to say yes and no. And if you'd indulge me, I will give you another one of my very straightforward but rather lengthy answers. The issue of the security system was first broached immediately after a threat on my life by Abu Nidal. Abu Nidal is, as I'm sure you on the intelligence committees know, the principal foremost assassin in the world today. He is a brutal murderer. When I was first alerted to that threat by the Federal Bureau of Investigation in late April, I was simply told that there was a threat that had been promulgated by Abu Bakar, who is the press spokesman for the Fatah Revolutionary Council, which is the name of the Abu Nidal group. He targeted me for assassination. We then made an effort over the course of several days to have the story killed and not run in U.S., not me, but the story, killed and not run on the U.S. media. Nonetheless, it ran and I believe the date was the 28th of April. The initial assessment was that this was a response to the attack on Libya, which we had run a preemptive counterterrorist raid on Libya on the 14th of April, which I had a small role to play. CBS chose to run the film anyway. The FBI was then contacted again and told, asked what protection can be offered. The FBI correctly said, we don't offer protection. I then sought other types of protection. I went to my superiors and said, what can be done? Contrary to what was said some days ago, this Lieutenant Colonel was not offered at that time any protection by the government of the United States, Senator Rudman. I asked for it and I was told that the only thing that I could do is to immediately PCS, Permanent Change of Station, you and I as Marines know well what that means and jerked out of our home and sent to Camp Lejeune in that I was preparing at the time to go to Tehran and we didn't want to tell the whole world that. That was deemed not to be an appropriate thing to do. The next thing that we looked at trying to do was to find a secure telephone to put in my home to justify the installation of a US government security system. That too was impossible or not feasible or couldn't be done. The next thing I did was to ask for a list of who installs these things for the US government. Maybe I can get a better price by calling them. I believe it was someone in the Secret Service gave me a list of three or four of these companies that do that kind of installation. I called two or three of them. It is now late April, early May. It's within days of this threat and I called and I asked, can you come out and do a survey and give me an estimate? And in each case, I think it was two or three of them and I was at that point relatively busy. I was told it'll be several weeks before we can come out and do an estimate and a survey and it'll be several more weeks or months before we can complete the installation because after all summertime is our busy time. At some point along in there either General Secord raised with me or I raised with him this threat and I told him I couldn't get US government protection. I couldn't find a contractor to come out and do it myself and he said, don't worry about that. I've got a good friend or an associate, I don't remember the words, who's an expert. This guy has a company that does these things. And he shortly thereafter, I believe it was around the fifth of May, introduced me to Mr. Glenn Robinette. He was introduced to me as a man who one had been a former CIA or perhaps I understood at the time FBI, I don't remember, technical expert, a man who owned a security company and a man who could immediately go out and do a survey and an estimate. He did. Over the course of the next few days, he went out to my home, I called my wife or told my wife whatever that he'd be out, he went through the situation and he came up with an estimate of $8,500 max, as I recall it was $8,000 to $8,500 and he could furthermore immediately install the system. Now, I want you to know that I'd be more than willing and if anybody else is watching overseas and I'm sure they are, I'll be glad to meet Abu Nidal in equal terms anywhere in the world. Okay? There's an even deal for him. But I am not willing to have my wife and my four children meet Abu Nidal or his organization on his terms. And I want you to know what was going through my mind. I was about to leave for Tehran.  I had already been told that the government of the United States on an earlier proposal for a trip might even disavow the fact that I had gone on the trip on an earlier proposal and we can come back to that at some time if you like. And so having asked for some type of U.S. government protection for my wife and children and having been denied that and perhaps for fully legitimate reasons and if there is a law that prevents the protection of American government employees and their families from people like Abu Nidal then gentlemen, please fix it. Because this kid won't be around much longer as I'm sure you know but there will be others if they take activist steps to address the problem of terrorism who will be threatened. And I would like to justify may just read to you a little bit about Mr. Abu Nidal just so you know my mental state at the time. Abu Nidal, the radical Palestinian guerrilla leader linked to last Friday's attacks in Rome and Vienna and that was the so-called Christmas Massacre in which 19 people died and 200 were wounded is the world's most wanted terrorist. That's the Christian Science Monitor. When you look at his whole career, Abu Nidal makes the infamous terrorist Carlos look like a boy scout. Abu Nidal himself quoted in Der Spiegel, between America and us there exists a war to the death and the coming months and years Americans will be thinking about us. For sheer viciousness, Abu Nidal has few rivals in the underworld of terrorism. Newsweek, our own State Department and we have copies of these that we can make available for insertion in the record State Department's summary on Abu Nidal, not exactly an overstatement, notes that his followers, who number an estimated 500, have killed as many as 181 persons and wounded more than 200 in two years. Abu Nidal does not deny these things. We also have an exhibit that we can provide for you that shows what Abu Nidal did in the Christmas Massacres. One of the people killed in the Christmas Massacre, and I do not wish to over dramatize this, but the Abu Nidal terrorist in Rome who blasted the 11-year-old American Natasha Simpson to her knees deliberately zeroed in and fired an extra burst at her head just in case. Gentlemen, I have an 11-year-old daughter, not perhaps a whole lot different than Natasha Simpson. And so, when Mr. Robinette told me on or about the 10th of May that he could immediately install a security system, I said, please try to keep it to the 8,000 to 8,500. I am, after all, a Marine Lieutenant Colonel and I live on my salary. And he installed that system. And now let me go to your next question because I know it's coming and it deserves an answer. I never got a bill.  It is after all the answer to your question. It is the answer to your question. You asked me where it came from and I'm trying to tell you. I am going to ask you that question, but... You've already asked me the question. You asked me whether or not the money came from General Seacourt. Correct. I'm getting there. Okay. When that system was installed, it was practically, it was totally complete. I'm proud for example that when my wife would trigger an alarm, an alarm would ring in the central station and the Fairfax police would immediately be notified. And that arrangement was worked out, this wasn't surreptitious.   And that's the best that they could do and it was at that point with that security system installed, it was adequate that instantly they would respond to one of those emergency alarms. And Mr. Robinette provided it. Now, I then went on the trip to Tehran. I came back. I never got a bill. I didn't ask for a bill and I never received one. I never asked where's the bill until well after it was too late and I'll cover that. When I didn't get a bill, I basically understood what had happened. And I don't know exactly how it worked out, but I believe that an accommodation was worked between Mr. Robinette and General Secord to make a gift out of that security system that I did not pay for. When I came to the end of my tenure at the NSC, it was, to say the least, a busy time. There were other things to be done besides shredding documents when I left. There was a lot of work to be done and one of the things that I did was to sit and contemplate the previous five and a half years of my work. And I am proud of that work. I believe that we accomplished a lot, but there was one thing that just didn't look right and that was that for the first time in my life I had accepted something that I hadn't paid for and even though I honestly believe that the government of the United States should have paid for it, should have put it in, I then picked up the phone and asked for a bill. I got a bill. In fact, I got two of them. I didn't ask that they'd be back-dated, but after all, Mr. Robinette is an old hand in the CIA. The bills came with the old original dates and I think there was another bill with the later date on it. And then, as I told you yesterday, I was going to tell you the truth, the good, the bad, and the ugly. This is the truth. I did probably the grossest misjudgment that I've made in my life. I then tried to paper over that whole thing by sending two phony documents back to Mr. Robinette. It was not an exercise in good judgment. I don't believe I have any particular monopoly on bad judgment. I think it was a gross error in judgment for this committee to put my home address up on the screen for the whole world to see when I've got 20 security agents guarding my wife my children and me right now. I'd also like to point out that it's not quite as bad as it originally seemed. This year, and these things kind of come in April's, I guess, but this April, the FBI called again. This April, the FBI called and told me that there was another threat on my life. The big difference was this year, I was back with a band of brothers that has a long reputation for taking care of its own. And the United States Marine Corps and the Naval Intelligence, Naval Investigative Service of Naval Intelligence got together and immediately put security on me and my home where my wife and children are protected. I can't tell you how grateful I am for that. The security system that was installed by Mr. Robinette with General Secord's money or the Enterprise's money or Mr. Hakeem's money or I don't know whose money was put in and supplemented enormously by the folks some of which are sitting in this room right now. Some of whom are at my home right now. Some of whom drive me around in an armored motorcade that makes it look like a European potentate.  I think the government of the United States should have stepped up to it and didn't, whether it's because of laws or regulations, I don't know. I admit to making a serious, serious judgment error in what I then did to paper it over and I'm willing to sit here and admit to that. But I'm also suggesting to you gentlemen that if it was General Secord who paid the bill, whatever it was, I thought it was $8,000, didn't learn until the hearing started, it was more. I also suggest to you that if it was General Secord, first of all, thank you, General Secord and second of all, you guys ought to write them a check because the government should have done it to begin with. Thank you, sir. Thank you, Colonel North. I need to ask you one other question on this subject. I'll make my second answer shorter. The documents which I believe you had reference to that you wrote and backdated are exhibits 172 and exhibit 173. Yes. Before I get to the document, who was it that you made the request for security to and who turned you down? Well, I went to... Well, first of all, I asked the FBI what they could do about it and the FBI told me and I've since checked and I was since told this again this April when they called about a threat this spring that the FBI is not in the business of providing protection and they indeed are not. I'm not necessarily by the way saying that I think they should have because it is clearly not within their jurisdiction to do so and it's up to you whether you change that jurisdiction, I suppose, but I then asked if there was anything that could be done at the White House. And who was it that you asked? I asked Admiral Poindexter and I was referred to Mr. McDaniel. It was then suggested that there's only two things that can be done. We can find a secure telephone and put it in your home and use that to justify the installation of a security system. Well, for whatever reason, no secure telephone could be found and I'm not...that may well be the case. I don't know. I was also told that the other alternative was immediate PCS to Camp Lejeune or another military installation which did not seem entirely practical given that I was getting ready to go to Tehran. Thus, there were no answers. That was Admiral Poindexter who told you that you could be transferred to Camp Lejeune. I don't recall which one it was. I know that that issue came up and was dismissed. Okay, turning now to exhibits 172 and 173, I take it what you are saying is that they were both typed on the same day. No, actually I think they were typed on two different days or maybe even three different days, but they're both phony documents. I admit it to that. I'm here to tell you the truth, even when it hurts, okay? They're phony. The second one, exhibit 173. There are three letters from the typewriter that don't type correctly. How was that arranged? It wasn't arranged. That's the way the wheel on the thing was when I typed it and the wheel was defective. It was simply that way. Were the two letters typed on the same typewriter? No. Were they typed in the same place? No. Actually one letter I think was typed on one typewriter that was similar to the other one and I couldn't find a decent ball or the wheel thing that worked right and that was the only one that was there and I dumbied up even the explanation on the bottom of it. You say you dumbied up the explanation. That's the way it was. So you didn't drop the ball? No.  This was not typed at the White House. It was typed after I left. Incidentally, no one else knew about this besides me.  And what was the purpose of writing an explanation at the bottom of exhibit 173? Well, here's the only letter that you sent with a ball that doesn't work. It was a demonstrator model in a store that I typed it on and you've got to provide some kind of an explanation as to why supposedly a White House typewriter doesn't write. So I explained it on the bottom by saying I dropped the ball. The ball being the explanation for the defective type. Why did you dummy up the explanation? Well, theoretically, I mean if... I object. Mr. Chairman, Colonel North has frankly admitted what he did here. I must believe that the United States Congress has had better things to do than focus on two phony letters after the witnesses admitted that they're phony. Could we please move on to another subject? We will proceed in the fashion we wish to, Mr. Niels. The fact is this letter was typed on a machine but dated as though I was still at the White House. Right? On October 86, I was still at the White House and the machine didn't work well. It didn't write right. I had screwed up the wheel on this demonstrator and thus I had to explain why a White House typewriter where they usually work pretty well didn't work well and so I put that note at the bottom. It was simply an explanation for why the typewriter didn't work as I had hoped it to. It's not more sinister than it appears. There's been testimony about use of traveler's checks. I'd like to give you an opportunity to answer or explain that testimony. I take it you have it in mind. I do have it in my counsel and I appreciate the opportunity. Again, you'll have to indulge me a bit. When I began the covert operation in 1986, excuse me, 1984 in support of the resistance, we had enormous problems trying to solve near time, real time, what I call operational problems. The end result of that was that I talked to Director Casey about the difficulties. He had suggested establishing an operational account and I did so. There were two sources of monies for that operational account. One was traveler's checks from Adolfo Calero and the other one was cash, eventually from General Secort. My recollection is that the very first traveler's checks came either very late 84 or certainly early 1985 and that the sum total of traveler's checks was probably in excess of $100,000 or thereabouts. I also had cash which I estimate today to be somewhere in the neighborhood of $50,000 to $75,000 in cash. So we're talking about an operational account that went from somewhere around $150,000 to $175,000. At various points in time there would be considerable sums in it and at various points in time there would be none in it. My recollection is that I got the traveler's checks in packages of less than $10,000. I understand that others have remembered elsewise but that's how I remember it. Those funds were used to support the operations that we were conducting. They were used to support the covert operation in Nicaragua and then eventually were used to support other activities as well. The fact that I had those funds available was known to Mr. McFarland, to Admiral Poindexter, to Director Casey, and eventually to Admiral Art Moreau over at the Pentagon. It was also came to be known to others that some of whom you've had testify here. The funds were used initially only to support the Nicaragua program but eventually it was broadened to include other activities as well. Let me give you some examples. In the Nicaragua program, operational support was provided to a whole host of Nicaraguan resistance leaders, either directly by me from the fund or through couriers that I used to carry it out. Other resistance activities inside Nicaragua were supported of a less military nature in some cases. Europeans who helped us with both the public affairs aspect and the acquisition of other arms through a separate channel outside that you've already heard about from General Secord or General Singlot were paid for out of this account. Money was mailed from this account to addresses in Caracas, San Jose, to Gusa Galpa, and San Salvador, among other places, to support activities inside Managua. The Indian Movement, the Atlantic Coast Indian Movement was supported from this account and meetings with the Atlantic Coast Indians, both the Masura Sada and the Mosquito Movement itself, were supported from this account. And eventually the fund was used to support other activities such as a DEA hostage recovery activity and the assistance of another European who we have agreed not to talk about. What's important that you realize is that meticulous records were kept on all of this. I kept a detailed account of every single penny that came into that account and that left that account. All of the transactions were recorded on a ledger that Director Casey gave me for that purpose. Every time I got a group of Traverse Checks in I would record them and I would record them when they went out even going so far as to record the Traverse Checks numbers themselves. The ledger for this operational account was given to me by Director Casey and when he told me to do so, I destroyed it because it had within it the details of every single person who had been supported by this fund, the addresses, their names and placed them at extraordinary risk. Every transaction that you showed on that chart that you had up on the wall or the screen or wherever it was, it's hard to tell when you see it on a videotape but when you had it up there you showed a group of Traverse Checks with my name hunting. Every single one of those Traverse Checks which bore my name were used by me to defray an actual operational expense as it happened. I'd cash a check for example at Miami Airport and the money to a resistance person who I met with there or I flew myself off to some place because we were trying to avoid the use of appropriated funds. We used this account to live within Boland and to hide the fact that NSC travel was being conducted. Unlike the CIA, the NSC travel voucher system doesn't have a covert cover. We had one dickens of a time trying to protect my travel and as you undoubtedly know gentlemen I made an enormous amount of travel. The schedule was brutal. Much of it was paid for out of that operational account. There were times when that account was down to zero. No money in it. I didn't have any Traverse Checks and I'd handed out all the cash. Not to myself but to others. Under those circumstances I would use my own money, Lieutenant Colonel Oliver North's paycheck money, his own money that he had earned and I would use it for an operational expense. I would therefore make a notation in the ledger spent $250 on going to Atlanta to meet with somebody and the next time I got cash or Traverse Checks I would use those checks to reimburse myself. Every single penny on the checks that you saw that came to me was used to pay an operational expense on the scene or to reimburse myself. I never took a penny that didn't belong to me. Every single one of those checks and I would also point out to you council that you don't have them all because by my own recognition and memory there were checks used in 1986 and the ones that you depicted earlier were only 1985 and I used those Traverse Checks right up until shortly before I was fired but only for the purposes that you saw. And I realized that this hearing is a difficult thing. Believe me gentlemen, it isn't as difficult for you as it is for a guy that's got to come up here and tell the truth and that's what I'm trying to do and I want to make it very clear that when you put up things like Park Lane Hosiery and you all snicker at it and you know that I've got a beautiful secretary and the good Lord gave her the gift of beauty and that people snicker that Ollie North might have been doing a little hanky-panky with his secretary Ollie North has been loyal to his wife since the day he married her and the fact is I went to my best friend and I asked her, did I ever go to Park Lane Hosiery and you know what she told me? Of course you did you old buffoon you went there to buy leotards for our two little girls and the reason I wrote the check at Park Lane Hosiery just like the checks at Giant is because I was owed my money for what I had spent in pursuing that covert operation you gentlemen may not agree that we should have been pursuing covert operations at the NSC but we were we had an operational account and we used the money for legitimate purposes within that covert operation does that answer your question sir? Yes I have a couple of more on that subject when was the ledger destroyed? My recollection is the ledger and I'm anticipating your question I have tried as best I can to reconstruct not only that but when a lot of the more intensified destruction began my sense is that it was probably destroyed along about the 4th or the 5th of November and I say probably because the initial discussions I had with director Casey about this operation coming unraveled began right after the Hassanfuss shoot down which was early October I think it was the 4th or the 5th of October and then the discussions that he had shortly thereafter with Mr. Furmark who told him that oh by the way a lot of people happen to know that Ali North has been using money from the Iranian arms transactions to support the Contras or words to that effect I then went on in a very intensive period of travel and I must tell you that we intensified our efforts considerably knowing that this operation was coming apart we made an extraordinary effort to get the second channel going to open it up and to get as many Americans out as we possibly could before it all came down I believe that it was right after I returned from one of my early November trips meeting with director Casey director Casey said look this revelation that's either occurring or about to occur is the end at that point in time he also told me you ought to go out and get a lawyer now from one of the guys who is one of the best lawyers in the world by my book he used to remind me a lot not to say bad things about lawyers I've been reminded about that since director Casey told me to get a lawyer because it was probably going to be a civil suit against me by associates of Mr. Firmark to recover their money and so in that whole process somewhere between what I would judge to be the 13th of October and the 4th of November he told me specifically get rid of things, get rid of that book because that book has in it the names of everybody the addresses of everybody just get rid of it and clean things up and I did so where did the money come from? the two sources that I remember very vividly were Mr. Calero by Travelers Jacks sometimes given by him to me directly or couriered to me and then also cash from General Secord did you ever you've indicated that on occasion you advanced your own money and reimbursed yourself out of this fund were there occasions when it was the other way around? I don't understand you borrowed from the fund for personal purposes and then reimbursed never did you ever permit Fawn Hall to do that? I did I, as I recall it was a very late probably a Friday or Saturday night and I had told her that she could take the weekend off and she didn't have any money and she needed, she was driving to the beach or somewhere and I, as I recall gave her two or three checks, made the appropriate notation in the ledger and told her that I had to have the money back as soon as she could cash a check and she did and I put the money back in the account that my recollection is the only time I ever advanced anybody anything out of the account I never advanced myself out of there there has been testimony about efforts to root money to you through your wife out of the Swiss bank accounts I'd like to give you an opportunity to respond to those that testimony on that subject if you wish I'd be glad to and again, if you'll allow me to go back in time a little bit in February of 1986 we had the first direct meetings with the Iranians in five plus years between U.S. government officials and the Iranians other than the discussions that were going on in Europe over settlement of accounts in those meetings in the latter days of February it was decided that there would be two trips to Tehran that I would go on an advanced trip with General Secord the purpose of which would be to establish an agenda for a higher level trip to be taken by a senior U.S. official and that trip was planned to take place in April my advanced trip was to have taken place in March because the U.S. government had been unable to provide a translator for that session Mr. Hakim came to that session and acted as translator and that was to my recollection the very first time I had heard of Mr. Hakim I think it is the first time I had actually met with Mr. Hakim and I have no recall to the contrary Mr. Hakim thought that this idea of an advanced trip was lunacy I mean he put it in the strongest possible terms that this was not a good thing to do the CIA officer who was with me at that meeting agreed with him when the discussion transpired it was actually pointed out that you could never be heard from on this trip again the risks were known to Mr. Hakim very clearly because he is after all an Iranian he fled the revolution that we now seek to get along with the CIA officer thought that the trip was very high risk when I later talked to Director Casey and this was within days of this whole event Director Casey raised another issue and that was first of all the trip because it is so black this advanced trip is so hidden we are going to use non-U.S. government assets throughout European or Middle Eastern Airlines no U.S. air registration, air flights you might never be heard from again the government might disavow the entire thing and furthermore I, Bill Casey, am not going to let you go unless you are prepared to deal with the issue of torture but we knew by then that Bill Buckley a man who I knew was probably dead and that he had been tortured we knew that he had given as much as a 400 page confession under torture that we were making every effort to recover and Director Casey told me that he would not concur in my going on the advanced trip unless I took with me the means by which I could take my own wife I did not tell my wife and children that and they may be hearing it for the first time right now in the course of that discussion Mr. Hakim said to me if you don't come back I will do something for your family he did not say we that I recall he said I now by that point in time I had come to know that Mr. Hakim was a wealthy man in his own right I was grateful for the assistance that he had been providing translating over several very difficult days of discussions with the Iranians and several days thereafter when he suggested that my wife meet with his lawyer in Philadelphia I agreed that my wife should do so the purpose as I understood it of that meeting was that my wife would be in touch with the person who would if I didn't return do something for my family my wife went to the meeting in Philadelphia several days thereafter and you have notations in the notebooks that I surrendered to you about what happened she went a very brief meeting there was no money mentioned no account mentioned no amount mentioned no will mentioned no arrangement the meeting focused on how many children I had their ages and a general description of my family a brief meeting in the offices as I remember of Tush Ross a respectable firm in Philadelphia with a lawyer I then went and thank God returned safely from Iran after that trip there was one more call to my wife from the lawyer on or about the first of June almost immediately after my return from Tehran the lawyer called again and asked for the name of an adult executor for our family in the event I suppose that neither my wife nor I were around called my wife do not call him back it is unnecessary she never did she never heard from him again and she has never made contact with him again no money was ever transferred to my possession, control, account or that of my wife or that of my children I never ever heard about belly buttons until these hearings began does that answer your question council? yes and I take it that in answering the question you've been telling us what happened at certain meetings that I take it were attended only by your wife and I take it you're testifying to what you've been told by her