Welcome to the World Summit on the Information Society 2017. I am very pleased to be joined by Boris Koprivnikar, Deputy Prime Minister, Minister for Public Administration in Slovenia and Chief Digital Officer. Hello and greetings also from my side. Thank you. Thank you for joining us. So, ICTs really formed the backbone of today's economy. So, what role do you think they play in terms of sustainable development goals? Well, as the backbone of society, economy and basically all the processes that we are running in the country, of course, the key role, if we can connect the ICT to support the sustainable development goals and really to address what's in the interest of the people and the businesses and only that support with the ICT technologies, then we have a successful society as a whole. And part of a successful society is of course successful economy, it's a business, it's profit, but also quality of life and respect to the environment that we are living in and we have to protect it. ICT has one of the key connecting roles of all those SDGs and all those processes in the society. So, what efforts do you think can be made together to link the SDGs and WISIs at the UN process level? First, we have to share the data. We have to understand that ICT is never closed in the one country's borders. We always communicate globally. So, it's important to have the common standards, standards of communication, standards of data exchange, also standards of smart decision making, because ICT is bringing us something that was never possible before. Our decision making can be based on a lot of data which have to be according to the processes of the big data and complexity science analyzed and then our decisions will be faster and smarter. And as we know that SDGs are also not closed in the country's borders, it's important that ICT is connecting us, that we address those common goals together and in that way more successful. International organizations have to play that key role to support us, that we can openly communicate and then we can be together more successful. So, what efforts are you making in Slovenia to link ICT and SDGs? Well, generally, we're using very, let's say, practical approach. We know what are the goals, what are the strategies, the long-term interests that we want to achieve, apply. But we are interested in how to do it. We established a digital coalition that we share the common directions together with all society stakeholders. That means NGOs, government, businesses, research and science. We centralized the informatic processes. We built one of the most modern cloud infrastructure in which all the data and processes can be reused and supported to each other. We accepted, of course, the strategy which is focused on, or under the, let's say, strategy, Slovenia, green reference country in digital Europe. What means that whatever is invented and there to use, we want to use it on a system level, not as a new invention, but something that's really generally used. And in that case, we also want to promote Slovenia as one of the most successful countries in digital development. By the way, we are the fastest-growing digital country in Europe. So, obviously, we are doing something right. But we are looking on informational technology as a nerve system of the society, so we'd have to be synchronized and coordinated. Boris Koprivnikal, Deputy Prime Minister of Slovenia. Thank you very much. My pleasure.


Have you ever asked a question and maybe the answer is just too close for you to actually see it? I was asked about this video by brother Daryl King and by Pastor Jeremy And I don't know why they asked this question.  It's not something I like to talk about Okay, seriously this particular person I have seen some of his videos before never really Comment on them before but I want to comment on this video one because I want to comment on it and two They asked me to and this comes from a guy. His name is Keith Nester or Netter. I'm not sure if I'm sending right I'll get it right before the videos over with I know his first name is Keith though And he's speaking about one saved always save calls it a heresy calls it up cause it dangerous as a matter of fact The problem is what he's asking what he's stating the answer is so obvious It's right in front of him and he doesn't see it once saved always saved is a dangerous heresy Now the question goes like this once a person is saved. Is there anything that can change that? Can you go from being saved to unsaved? This is a common statement used to attack Catholicism all of the time But the fact is lots of non-Catholic Christians also reject this idea. Well now that's your first problem your Catholic And I'm not trying to be ugly, but that's a problem your Catholic Anyone who wants to be who wants to serve the Lord fully you at some point time The spirit is just gonna move you away from Catholicism. I'll save that for another point in time Oh, by the way, your pope is horrible, but I'll leave that aside for another time Let's get back to the issue at hand the orthodox and even many different types of Protestants Object to the idea that once a person is saved There's nothing that can be done to keep them from staying saved I've talked about this at length before in a pretty in-depth episode of my podcast Catholic feedback Which you can check out if you want to see it, but I've had a few conversations recently with people who come at this issue From a perspective I want to address and it has to do with an assumption made about our salvation That is treated like some kind of trump card for anyone who disagrees with it And here's what it is salvation is a free gift that you didn't do anything to earn Therefore you can't do anything to lose it. Otherwise, it wouldn't be a free gift now You all have heard that before you all have heard that before that salvation is a free gift because the gift There's nothing that you can do to get it and nothing that you can do to merit it Well, let's listen to his response. I don't know if you all remember my response to this because I think that what he's asking and his disdain about it being called a gift. I think he's close to the answer, but far away at the same time Now that's the big statement right there That's supposed to destroy 2,000 years of Christian teaching about how you can actually lose your salvation But let's talk about this. Is it really true the problem with this kind of statement is that first of all It's just way too vague because that can mean different things to different people I mean, how many of us have ever been given a gift that we didn't receive how many times has someone tried to give you something and you said No, I don't want to receive that. I see his point I think the problem is he's making an improper analogy. How many of you have been given a gift that you didn't receive Well, then you didn't get a gift. Someone may have tried to give you a gift, but Fine, I get it. I see his point, but it's flawed. I'll tell you why in a second because he's missing it Just because someone offers you a gift doesn't mean that you have to receive it There's a cooperation and a and and a level of partnership involved when a giver of a gift and a receiver of a gift come together Is that true? Is there a level of partnership that's required or involved in the giver and the receiver? Well, not always. I mean a lot of us have been given gifts And we did nothing to do as a matter of fact, we don't do anything to maintain That thing about an oxygen, right? Someone gave us that what did you do to get it? What did you do to get or to even merit oxygen? but You use it matter of fact you use it when you don't think about it and there is no partnership There was no agreement you just take advantage of it because it is a free gift So for someone to say that the idea that it's a free gift means that there's no participation Involved with receiving that gift. It's just dumb. It doesn't work. Especially with something like salvation It's just dumb. It doesn't work. It's arrogant because you you try to find an analogy That uh, maybe you don't like or what have you that makes sense to you I'm gonna give you not an analogy But an actual truth and I would love for you By the way, no one has ever refuted this and you will not be able to refute this because it's in the scriptures And there's no other way that you can get around this. None whatsoever. No anecdote that you come up with No other analogies. What have you? Furthermore when you talk about a free gift that you've received does that mean that you keep it forever? Why wouldn't you what? Some gifts are perishable. Some gifts are not and forever. What do you mean forever? Well, nothing is forever except for god and and also salvation as well as hell if you go there, but You're putting stipulations onto this because you don't want to fit your beliefs Not at all How many times have you received a gift and then you had it for a while and then you lost it or you got rid of it Or you donated it or whatever Just because you receive something as a free gift doesn't mean that you always keep it So when people try to apply this analogy as some sort of blanket statement over the top of salvation As though this means once saved always saved it just falls apart He is just missing it. It's almost like you want to stop him grab him say hey Turn him so you can see actually what it is that he's missing We'll do so later But the problem is people don't care.  Why do people do that? Okay, two things first of all stop bringing up the church fathers There are those that want to go to the church fathers And let me just deal with this. We'll come back to the church fathers in a little bit But he loves to bring up the church fathers, especially as a Catholic Here's the reason why first of all we don't care what the church fathers think now Is there some benefit to hearing what the church fathers believe the early church fathers? Sure But was there complete consensus amongst the church fathers? No, it was not not even amongst this We've covered this before so I won't spend too much time in it But here's how we know we don't really care what the early church fathers believe Except what scripture says Jesus made statements to the disciples to the apostles and immediately after he makes a statement What do they do? They go somewhere. I'll start thinking about something else Even with those that have the holy spirit where they may not have you fully understood There's a reason why paul confronts peter who both have the holy spirit both were apostles But they one was in error same thing with martyrs as a matter of fact causing others But the more important thing is the problem with trying to figure out what the early church fathers have or what they believe is We don't have all of the writings of of the early church fathers We don't have the writings of the early christians all of the early christians We don't know what all the christians thought those who didn't write You know why because for a large chunk of our christian history Who dominated christian thought who maintained tight control over what was spoken what was said Who was the one who didn't want you or i or anyone else to actually read the bible and know it for ourselves They were the church. They were the fathers. They were the voice that we had to listen to. Oh, I know the catholic church And so it's a bit rich when they say it Well, quite simply they do that because they have an agenda They want to believe that salvation is a free gift and therefore That means they don't have to do anything and that means that they're never can lose it because what does that lead to? It means that you don't ever have to worry anymore About anything with regard to your own personal holiness or your own sinfulness No matter what you do no matter whatever happens You could always rest assured that you know your salvation is safe Again what's rich is and this isn't really all that difficult when you compare The average protestant versus the average catholic their view of the bible Different and i'm talking about those that attend church That tend their masses and so let's just be clear Why because they've got someone that they have this go between which by the way is unbiblical But I don't want to make this a catholic versus protestant church issue But I don't want I don't want the catholic church or anyone in catholic church started like anyone about Holy this now by the way, there are some catholic people who are catholics Who do love the lord? Just like there are protestants and I don't think that anyone is trying to live in sin and live as a christian because That means that the person that's trying to live in sin is not a christian And no and and and we're not saying that you can live how you want to live and still be safe Stop straw manning what the belief is what the understanding is And again, that's a nice Fantasy but it's just not what the scripture teaches and it's not what the church fathers taught now for some people They don't care they have their idea They have their couple of verses that they've cherry picked out and come up with this with this idea And they're never going to depart from that now one of the things also I don't like and we'll get into his scriptures in just a second But when they say that you cherry pick certain passages well one thing for sure over here We don't cherry pick passages matter of fact We listen to what others who disagree with their passages are and we cover them We've actually even made videos over all of their passage if you cannot find one They're probably inside other videos But fine if you think we haven't covered an actual passage that you think says you can lose your salvation Send it to me. I'll make a video I'll make a video over it or I will point you to the video that covers that passage We've covered every last one of those and again those folks. They're missing something They're missing two big things two huge things will cover that in a second But let's go ahead and listen to some of the passages that he goes to that shows us why Those who believes in internal security why we're wrong, but for those who want to argue Let's look at a couple verses that in my opinion make this position completely Untenable and the first one is from john chapter 3 verse 36 whoever believes in the sun has eternal life But whoever disobeys the sun will not see life, but the wrath of god remains on him Did you notice the that both things you could say faith and works are a part of this? This equation that you must have in order to be saved Right, he says that you've got to believe and you can't disobey And he doesn't say that well if you disobey god, you just won't receive as many rewards in heaven Or you just won't have a certain kind of fellowship with god So let's go to that scripture and let's see if his understanding is correct As a matter of fact, let's get the understanding of it. This is this is jesus speaking in john 3 Now, what has he already spoken to us in john 3? Well, he already told us Speaking at the very beginning that a person must be born from above That's not you that's him those that must be born from above And keeping in mind because jesus gets on nicodemus for not knowing that he says you a teacher of israel You don't know this What is this that a person who was born from above that's being born of the spirit That's not you that that person also according to where this first comes up being born of warden spirit That comes from Ezekiel 36 25 26 27 and that those who are born of the spirit He'll put his spirit in them and then cause them to walk in his ordinances So when we get to verse 36 By the way, we already covered the fact that those who are believing the high pistuons Which we'll see this again the believing ones will never perish It's a statement a point that jesus makes that person will never perish and so we get to 36 What do we see the hot pistol wine? So he's telling us declaring what the hot pistol wine is the the one that's believing in the sun What does he have kief? This word a key means has he has life right now a k zoe only he has life into the ages So he has life into the ages So he's living now into the ages or living forever or living or life eternal When does he have that kief according to the passage right now? But then there's a contrast. That's why we have the word but supposed positive But the one that's apathetic apathome This is a person with the word apathetic this word and by the way some version might say either disbelieve or does not believe or obey It's fine. The same word means to refrain or to not believe And and it works the same way if you don't believe something you won't do something and that's his point He didn't say the person is Not believing and not obeying but he contrasts the believer with the one who's not That's the point and that person will not see life But the wrath of god abides on him remains on him. So It's a fundamental misunderstanding of the text which causes him to believe that if a person is a believer But then also is disobedient That's not what the pastor says this pastor does not say that a person is a believer But also disobedient he contrasts the believer the one that's believing With the person that's disobedient So what can't the disobedient person be if you want to use that word which also the word also means to disbelieve or not be believing You cannot make it to say that it is a person who believes And is disobedient. That's where you're understanding one of the of the language comes in but also It's just a fundamental misunderstanding of just english We don't see that don't make it say what it doesn't say. That's not really about salvation. That's about fellowship That's about rewards, but that's not what jesus said at all And for someone to make that claim is just flat out dishonesty or completely delusional And for you to make that statement not maybe because you're just delusional Maybe it's just not only to just use this word because folks get bothered by this word But it's the truth just ignorant ignorant of the text ignorant of the of the of the greek Because it's clear with what's being stated here. You're adding to the text The second text i want to point to comes from first corinthians chapter 15 Versus one through two And paul writes these words Now i would remind you brothers of the gospel i preach to you which you received and which you stand and by which you are being Saved if you hold fast to the word i preach to you unless you believed in vain Now clearly he's talking to people who actually believed he's talking to people who received the gift So you can't make the case. Well, he's not talking about people who actually were christians But just thought they were pretended to be no he's saying that you received and that you believed unless you believed in vain Now, how can you believe in vain it went with regard to your salvation if beliefs all you need Okay, so let's respond to him because again, he doesn't know the text or he's taking what he believes and Putting it onto the text. Let's go back to it. He says now i make known to you, brother The gospel which i preach to you Which also you received In which you stand By which also you are saved If you hold fast the word which i preach That is again if you hold fast the word Which i preach to you unless you believed in vain a couple things one He's the question is there or that needs to be asked and answered Are these necessarily believers? Well If you are a believer, this is true if you're not a believer you're covered as well. He says I make known to you the gospel which i preach to you which also you received In which you also stand by which also you are saved. So he says that you are saved But here's the question keith or anyone else Is there ever a possibility the likelihood of the chance of paul ever or anyone else Writing led to the church and there would be unbelievers there that would also hear When you go to your Catholic mass Or when a person goes to church Are there people there that will hear the message hear the gospel And aren't saved. Well, sure. Well, what what what do you tell them as a matter of fact? Where are those passages that speak to those to warn the people who aren't saved those who may even think that they're saved that aren't But I want you to notice There's a reason why paul makes this statement. He says if in the word if is there if You hold now the word hold fast. You can go hold faster. Just hold if you hold the what The word I'll come back to that in a second, which I preach to you unless you believed in vain There's two things I want to point out One if you ever notice when the bible speaks about someone Falling away or what have you or seeming to depart or to going astray Apostasy have you ever read the passages and notice what they're falling away from what they're leaving what they're departing from One it's the noun not the verb. I'll come back to this passage just a second But let's go to first timothy chapter 4 verse 1 this passage comes up a lot But but the spirit explicitly says that in the latter time some will fall away from the faith Notice keith or anyone else. This is the noun taste Pasteur pastels, which is the faith not from having faith From the not from from the belief but not from believing We'll see that over on Paul makes a statement. He says that I have kept the faith I thought I've kept believing Why wouldn't paul just use the verb because that's what we're talking about. Why is why is taste pastels different than hot pistol one one is a verb one is a noun When we're described as those who are saved The verb is used the believing ones those that are believing Versus the faith because you can have a set of beliefs And then leave those sets of belief such as somebody he's going to quote later Who once believed this now? I believe that this is what they're talking about you you leave a set of beliefs A tenant of the faith. He says they will depart from the Faith that's important because you can do just that that's what that's what paul is speaking of In first chrithians 15. Oh by the way this issue of believing in vain can a person believe in vain Well, if you hold to a set of beliefs if you believe these are the the set of beliefs And then you don't one You have left that which is possible. You believed in vain But notice what this word is here and I want to point it out too. He says that which I preach to you You received in which you stand if which also you are saved if you hold fast That's right here unless you believed in vain this word right here a key I want to pull up on the screen so you can see what this word means. This means They're being of no cause or reason Being without success or result no fail or being without purpose to no purpose Being without careful thought do consideration. They all kind of flow together. So The point is you can think about something you can believe something And be in vain You can think that you know what if I commit a crime Then I'll there's a chance that I'll go to jail and I don't want to do that But then go and commit a crime Well, what you thought you thought of in vain this word he makes the point This is where we can see he is saying if you hold fast If by the way the word a may if not or unless or the same word if not if not or unless You believe in vain. So he's making a distinction key. This is clear He's clearly making a distinction between those that did believe versus the true believers and those that believe in vain Is it possible for there to be true believers right beside? Full believers those who are believing in vain Can the two sit together and if the two sit together and you're preaching and they're both there How do you distinguish between the two? How would they know who's distinguishing between the two? How can you cover both camp? Well the way you would cover both the true believers and the believers who are believing in vain The ones who don't hold fast the word and there's a reason why I'm using that as well The reason the way you would do so is if you use this word a or a may Which is unless to say unless that's you so true believers You are safe those that place their faith in Christ you are safe That is if you actually did place your faith in Christ Did you see what I did? I used the word if to distinguish between those that are truly believers And those that have fooled themselves the the false converse why is it important? Because if we go to something that Jesus says he says it's in Matthew Mark and Luke I like you using Luke 8 But also look to well Matthew 13 and 8 is I mean 13 as well in Luke 8 Notice he says about the parable of the seed and the sowers and he's speaking about The word falling or the seed falling on certain soils And how it works out how there's only really one group There's only one example where there's actual the the true word is sewn into into the good ground all the others As and he's equated to believers only one group of people are saved notice what he says in verse 11 I speak as Jesus explained this parable. He says those beside the road are those who have heard So it's possible to hear Those who have heard then the devil comes and takes away the word from their heart So that they will not believe notice what the word here is this word is pistol santa. This is those who are It's just like the pistol ones. How do I know because this is the aris active Part of simple so though he the the the enemy doesn't want them to be the Believing ones now we won't get into how the devil can possibly do that We've covered that before but the goal is to make sure that no one is the believing ones Well, the issue is not the word the issue is the ground notice what it was so sewn on It was sewn beside the road Not on the good soil first 13 those on the rocky soil Notice the ground that's being sold on and they're going to ask a question. You should know the answer What is the soil? Receive those on rocky soil are those who when they hear They hear and receive the word With joy which happens These are people that get excited about it, but they end up becoming what we call false converge These have no firm root. Look what he says. They believe for a while and the word that's used here is not the part of simple This word right here is pistol usan. It's not the part of simple They believe for a while and in time of temptation. They fall away. They leave The seed which fell among the thorns.  Well, where what grounded fall one? Well, they fell in the soil that had thorns Go to verse 15 But the seed on the good soil that's the important point the good soil So when the word is heard in a in the good soil Sowing good soil These are the ones who have heard The word in an honest and good heart going back to john three, which you started off You went to verse 36, but what about the beginning of john three the heart is the issue which we talked about many times before The heart is the issue. So what does he say the one these are the ones who have heard the word in an honest and good heart and hold fast and bear fruit with perseverance so What will they do if they if the word is received in a good soil? What's the good soil the heart? Question keith or anyone else who determines if the heart is a good heart Catholic question for all my catholic Friends believers and nonbelievers false converts and true converse Who determines if the heart is a good heart? Who determines if the soil is a good soil? Is it you you want to find the passage to say so now the bible does tell us to Circumstance your heart, but then we find out that we can't and so what has god stated from the very beginning That he will do so when will god circumcise the heart? How will he do so? Well, we see that in john three We see that in john one. We see that in romans. We see that in Ephesians We see that in titus and so we see that in first peter First Peter says that god cost us to be born again or be born from above So this is an act of god. So going back to your passage those that believed in vain This is what he we're talking about those that we see in the parable of the Seeds and the soil those who believed in vain now where's another passage we can go to? Matthew 13 knows what it says another example of that Of this same seed of the same seed and soils He says verse 23 and the one whom the seed was sown on the good soil That that is a person. This is the man who hears the word and understands it So the person understands it it is Who indeed bears fruit and brings forth some hundredfold now this word understanding it That means that they intellectually get it everyone can intellectually get it But they take it they receive it to heart going back again to what we're speaking of the good heart Right, that should be the end right there But he says look You can have this you receive in which you will be saved and are being saved notice there He talks about it as being a process But the big fat word there is if you hold fast to the word I preach to you now I don't know if you caught what he did he actually threw something there I don't know if he did it intentionally or ignorantly, but it doesn't go on. It's still wrong He says that if you are being saved and it's a process. Well that word is not there By the way, the salvation is happening to you That's someone else doing it to you have covered the fact that The middle voice and the passive voice used in salvation In the case that it's not you doing it. It's God is doing it on his behalf And that's going to get to our point in just a second. I said earlier I want you to stick around and find out how he's missing it how everyone else if anyone believes that you can lose your salvation I want to show you how you're missing it. What do they say you're missing the trees for the forest It's literally right there in front of you as a matter of fact Even how you phrase the question or In this case Keith or anyone else how you defend those that pose this question about this gift Being a free gift second Peter chapter 2 verses 20 through 22 For if after they have escaped the defilements of the world through the knowledge of our lord and savior jesus christ They are again entangled in them and overcome The last state has become worse for them than the first For it would have been better for them never to have known the way of righteousness Then after having known it to turn back from the holy commandment delivered to them What the true proverb says has happened to them the dog returns to its own vomit And the sow after washing herself returns to wallow in the mire Again This destroys this position that you can never lose your salvation because these people and that peter's talking to here They clearly have escaped the defilements of the world through the knowledge of our lord See what people want to say is well, they never really were safe. No, it clearly says that they were But it also says that if they depart from it, then they're worse off now Then they would if they'd never heard the truth How can they be worse off if they've received something that can never be taken away from them? I wonder if he hears himself. I wonder if he's so Fascinated or enamored with what he thinks he knows and he's just missing. Let's go to the passage He's not speaking to christians. How do we know? Well, he tells us He says we're if after they have escaped the defilements of the world by knowledge Now a couple things who's peter speaking to well, he's speaking to he tells us to those that are dispersed to who to these Jews Now as a possible that gentile believers are going to hear this too Absolutely, but he's making a point and he says they have escaped the defilement of the world by their what? By their knowledge of the lord and savior jesus christ again Every time we see that someone has moved away. They moved away from the word from the knowledge from the understand They don't they don't want to hold to that That's what he says though. They are again entangled in them and are overcome Now this issue about overcome the bible tells us that those that are believing ones That have been caused to be born again. He says that we will overcome the world not that the world will overcome us But anyway, he says that the last state has become worse for them than the first But here what it says for it would have been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness again Not to have known what the way of righteousness than having known it to turn away from the holy commandment hand down to them Which holy commandment hand down to who well, he's speaking obviously of these jews It has happened to them according to the proverb now Even if you don't want to take it as though that they are jews. That's fine. Look at the last part He says a dog returns to its own environment. So what are we speaking of? We're not speaking of christians. We're speaking of dogs Pigs unclean folks folks who have not gotten the word who are not safe This is the answer there that you're looking for and the problem is you're such a in such a hurry To make your point. You're missing the answer that you think you're asking Now i want to play this clip because he he wants to refer to any time They do this all the time they refer to the early church fathers because a lot of the early church fathers Were influenced by catholic thought as a matter of fact some of the writings were destroyed by those who opposed catholic thought i don't mean the universities i mean the actual organization But he's going to quote tertillian but it should matter what the earliest christians believe because They were closest to the teaching of the apostles. It's it's highly unlikely That something so foundational as your salvation That these guys are going to get so completely wrong when it comes to this issue Justin marder writing around 160 ad says this i hold further That those of you who have confessed and known this man to be christ Yet who have gone back for some reason into the legal dispensation i.e. the mosaic law And have denied that this man is christ and have not repented before death You will by no means be saved so those of you who know jesus But you've gone back to the old law or you've gone back to some kind of false religion that you were in before If you don't repent before you die, you're not saved By the way, i agree with that. I think that's in keeping what we're saying anyone that is not Maintaining their salvation so to speak which he'll like that or Continuing continuing to believe or continue to have faith or continuing to follow. That's not a christian But we believe that christians have the holy spirit in them and they will do so i'll come back to that Just a little bit from tertillian from to 13 ad He says this god had foreseen that faith even after baptism would be endangered He saw that most persons after obtaining salvation Would be lost again by soiling the wedding dress by failing to provide oil for their torches problem is though This is why you don't actually Want to quote them and live by them one the word is clearer than they are Two they are so vastly inconsistent. He's a catholic. There's a reason why tertillian is not even called a saint Why because he embraced a heresy known as montanism Where the where he's getting these new prophecies is a new prophet and so forth But also he's a hypocrite because he believes he interprets first grant in Chapter set first grant in seven to be that they should remain celibate Though he himself was married and not celibate. So we don't listen to tertillian Are there some things that we can kind of get some Glean some thought as to what the church first church believed yet But in the end ultimately it's going to be the scriptures not tertillian or orion or clamor or whomever There are some things we can look to but again These were fallen people themselves who needed grace who needed faith and then he has an issue about this issue about It being a free gift and this is where we're going to go ahead and eliminate his argument this word But the free gift some version would say the free gift or the gift the word that you see is the word Charisma and the reason why some version might say the free gift because it's it's freely given graciously I don't have a problem if you just use the word gift or free gift But he has an issue with it being a gift And or not a that being gift, but that there's something that you have to do to maintain the gift Think about that for a second. And this is where he is going to have a problem with answering or rebutting this You would think uh, no, Cory I think he's got he's got a point and I guess what I'm going to go along with this point to some degree That the person Who receives the gift has a responsibility to keep the gift Let's think about that for a second. Well, first of all not always again We use the example of air oxygen. We use example of of gravity Those those are gifts clearly and we do nothing to to keep those Someone else does so and then it also deals with these covenants If God has given an unconditional covenant saying that he's going to do this Irrespective of anyone else. There's no condition put to it. Well, then There's no no maintaining of this gift on our part But if you want to hold to what he's saying that the gift Uh, the person that receives the gift they are Responsible for keeping the gift Okay fine That's why you ought to believe in eternal security That's why Keith or anyone else you ought to believe in one saved always say How do I know? Well, let's go back to the bible and let's go to john chapter 6 And let's put on the screen And then you tell me If we have to worry about the person receiving the gift if we have to worry about him Keeping the gift maintaining the gift not losing the gift Jesus says all that the father gives to me will come to me And the one who comes to me I will not certainly cast out. Who's he speaking out? Well, we know he's speaking of believers of christians How did jesus get the believers? How did he get his sheep? How did he get these get us as christians? Well, he just said it He says all the father gives to me as a matter of fact verse 39 This is the will of him who sent me that all that he has given me. That's the word Uh, where we get doréa or the doken This is or in this case the didosin and dead doken notice when they were given by the way In this point, this is the perfect tense in order that all of the ones that were given He came that in order of that the sehina clause keep Which states the purpose of him coming in which goes back to john three by the way in order that all of The ones who were perfect tense given They have been given to him in the past. It's a completed action in the past Even though when he makes a statement A lot of folks most christians haven't been given yet haven't come to him yet But they have been given to him. So what's the gift that has to be maintained? Well, here we have the father Who gave a gift to the son? So keth does jesus have a responsibility to keep the gift to maintain the gift to make sure that he didn't lose Any of the gift fine if you say so what does jesus say about the gift all that he has given to me will come to me They all will come to me and I will not cast any of them out He says 39 is the will that all that he has given all of the gifts the entirety of the gift I will lot not lose any not lose not one But raise him in the last day. So what gift are you are you focusing on it's what it really is like It's like if I gave this person a puppy Well, the person that was received they received the puppy that person fine He's responsible for taking care of the puppy The puppy has responsibility as he grows up and so forth what have you but he's going to be a puppy He's going to be who he is or whatever, but ultimately it's going to be the owner In this case god the father gave the son jesus a gift So answer your question now keth will the gift receiver ever lose any of the gift? Notice what's not here keth in here. There is no condition He does not say that if as long as the gift is obedient He does not say that as long as the gift keeps believing He does not say that as long as the gift is following as a matter of fact. He says all that he's given Will come and notice that they will come and the word that's used here Will come this word is a future tense So this is going to happen every single one and every single one that will come Are the ones that were given every single one that will come that were given are the gift from who from god to To jesus and then what does he say about that very gift all that's in that gift How many of that gift will he lose keth or anyone else? Not one according to him. So what you can do is stop the foolishness stop the misunderstanding Stop the ignorant explanations Stop missing the trees for the forest because he says it literally this and and using your same rationale Your same explanation This is clear He will not lose one which is why it is vitally important to understand what he stated in the very beginning Once the spirit is in our heart. What does he say in jeremiah 32 39 40 He says and I will give them one heart and one way that they may fear me always for their own good This is verse 40 and I will make an everlasting covenant with them that I will not turn away from them So he won't turn away from us and he says and I will put the fear of me in their what hearts there's that heart And that and in that way so that they will not turn away from me So the people that have the spirit of god in their heart one god will never turn away from them And and those people also will never turn away from god It says the same thing in ezekiel 36 And in case keith or anyone else wants to come back and say well that's speaking of israel john one Clarifies even what he says in john three how it applies because in john three those are the people that are born from above Their heart is born from the spirit of god And then in john 112 he says this is everyone Whoever it has to be that is born you are born out of flesh or the will of man But you are born why or from what? From the will of god and the bible says first peter peter tells first peter one three that he cost all of us He cost us to be born again We didn't do so god does so and so my friend if you want to hold that fine You are in error. You are false. You are wrong One not just because you belong to this to the catholic church Which is heretical in and of itself But you have no scriptural backing if you got a script you think that that that nails your point send it So far we've dealt with every last one of them But we've given passages that no one on your side will ever refute. What do they do? They go to other passages. So keith my friend I don't doubt the sincerity of your heart. I just doubt the the sincerity of your understanding That's the point. You clearly have missed the text