Hello, thank you for joining me. I'm in Katowice in Poland, and there's a funny little one-carriage tram just gone past. This city has a massive tram network, although it's not such a huge city in itself, and the tram network doesn't only serve this city. It's known as the Upper Silesian Urban Area. Where I am now, this is basically the central tram crossing in the city centre. You've got trams going that way east to west and north to south. Now, I'm not going to be able to over the next few days do the whole network. It's simply so big, and I may have a look at other things as well, but I've just arrived here this afternoon. I'm very keen to explore. I'm thinking I might do what is the tram route that goes that way. Where various routes terminate en route, but to get to the very end of that line is route 13. So I'm going to look for tram on route 13 and travel down there. So far, I've mainly seen modern trams, except, well, that one there is still modern bits of one-carriage tram, which I really like.  I do like these more modern articulated trams. So there's a lot of different trams to see, a lot of different lines. And over the next few days, I'm going to be doing a lot of tram bashing. I'm going to really explore this network. This is probably like the closest thing would have had to this in the UK. Perhaps imagine when, say, Leeds had trams, Leeds had trams, Wakefield had trams, Bradford had trams, and all the cities are linked together. Various cities here all link, all tram networks link together. So it's kind of like that. It's really probably the only place in the world where you've got a few cities with one huge tram network. So I'm very excited about exploring it. I'm going to do, I'm going to walk, I'm going to follow down there to where route 13 starts. Now I can do a bash over the whole of route 13. Tram bouncing along the single track line beside the road. Hold the camera both and it might have hit it more steady or maybe not. We're going to soon come to the end of route 16 where I am expecting there to be a turning loop. Further back, we came to the end of a few other routes and there was like a roundabout in the middle of the road. So I find all this quite fascinating because you can see I'm sat at the back of the tram. They only have a driver at one end, oh yeah, now here we are. We're just coming in to look forward and not to anyone on the tram now. That's the PESA built tram, that's the Polish company and there's a Magda S.M. PESA. Oh okay, so yeah, that's the return loop, it's there where those cars are and there's another tram in front of us. So we've effectively gone, that tram there is on the turning loop and that was the turn and head back towards the city centre, sort of run along over there. We're going to continue forward towards the end of route 13. So it's going to be interesting to see what we find. I really like it when I come to these tramways in Europe. You just get to the end and you're sort of on the edge of a city centre. There's lots of trees about sort of semi-rural. I just really enjoy this sort of thing. We're off here, we're off. So we're just passing tram 874 just there. So as I say, that's on the return and we're leaving. We're going right into the forest now and see. So later on when I return I'll be on that tram and then that tram is now moving on the return loop. This is what I really like.  We're effectively a light railway now. Yes, it's basically a light railway but also does some street running. So this is really nice. I'm going to enjoy the journey and see what we find at the end of route 13. The end of route 13. So the tram's going to go off on the turn loop all around there and then we'll head back to the city centre down there. Let's go and have a little look. I can show you now the outside of the tram we just travelled in. So I sat at the back because when I go on these trams that are one-ended, I always sit at the back because then you get a good view, watching the other trams go the other way. So I'm not even going to try and pronounce the name of the tram stop but that is where we are. What a day ticket. Last 24 hours. So I can ride as much as I like. So I haven't got to worry about looking for ticket machines. So here we are now. We've come to the front of the tram just there and let's have a look to see what there is to see. It was a very industrial and still is a very industrial place. So there's lots of factories or possibly in this case abandoned factories. I know there's a couple of coal-fired power stations in the area. So what I'm going to do, I'm just going to explore really, go to the end and just see what I can find at the end of each route because it is quite fascinating. You never quite know what you're going to find. So I'm not sure. I think you have to get off the tram there and then to ride it back to the city centre, you get on it there. So if you're a track bachelor, you don't quite get to do that bit of track. But I'm not too worried about doing every little bit of tram. There's just so much here to do. I just like to do the route. So what I'll do now, I'll probably ride route 13 back to that other turning loop we came to. That's where route 16 starts. And then where we came at that crossroads of tram lines at the beginning of the video, I shall come to there and it will travel south to the bottom of that branch. And then I will take it from there as to what to do. So yes, not presidential area. I said abandoned factories over there. There's a petrol station. I can see a couple of church towers. And there's a sort of kind of a garden stroke park in the middle of the tram loop. Not quite sure what to describe it as. So yeah, this is the first end of the line we've come to. I think there's a railway as well, not far from here. So I might go and have a look at that. Because if I get that one back, it means I'm going to travel on the one I've just traveled on. And I try and do different ones. So it's quite, if you look at that, it's quite rough, the state of the track. I was like, well, I found out it was a bit embarrassing. I sat on the tram and I just bought a doughnut. And it went over under those bumps.  But I managed to luckily have some serviettes to clean myself up before I recorded the next take of the video. And that's because you've got quite rough tracks like that. So yeah, if you're coming on the trams enough as a Celia, I'm thinking of eating a doughnut. Take note. Anyway, I'm going to wait and my tram and we'll see where we go next. And here we are back at that turning loop, which we came across on our way to the end of Route 13. So Route 13 continues off down there. So I've just come along on the tram. This is going to be my next tram. I've noticed they will have names as well, which is quite nice. Or at least these ones do. These Pessa free section ones have names. So 876 is probably going to be my next tram. I'm just going to show you where Route 13 goes. It's a bit particularly light. Well, we saw it on the way, actually, didn't we? It's down there. See how it just runs off? Like I say, it's like a proper light railway. I've actually really done this platform recently. And you quite often get these in Eastern Europe. These sort of huts at the end of tram routes. It's usually where the staff can perhaps go and have a break, perhaps. So yeah, Route 16, it goes in seven minutes. There's a DMI dot matrix indicator. So I'll have a look just over here. And I'm going to go and get on that tram. So yeah, that's the platform there for Route 13. If you're heading out the city centre down there, and then trams on Route 16, as we've seen terminate in the middle of the circle. So I'm going to go and jump on that tram over there. We've now arrived at the other end of the Route 16. That's the tram I've just been on. Complete contrast. Look at this. It's a great big sort of indoor, semi-endore terminus. So the trams go around on a loop as they all do. You see another one over there. There's a couple waiting. Now, I'm not going to pronounce the name of the place, but it says up there, Katowice, and then below. That's the town we're at. Sometimes coming with a different sort. Not seeing any of these on the video yet. Number 810. So I'll find out more about those ones perhaps later on in the video. I'm now travelling along on a tram of 47. Number 1047, you can see it up there in the dark. Another Pessa tram. There's only about one other person on it. If you look, most of the tram is empty. So I'm going to go to the end of... Well, it says this is the end of Route... There's a screen up there. No, it's not shown very well, but this will take me to what is the current end of Route 14. Although I thought Route 14 went on beyond where it's terminating as a single line, which I wouldn't have done in the dark. I just thought I'd do this for the ride, see what's at the other end, and then I'm going to head back to the city centre and the rest of the video we'll do tomorrow. Well, I think I think it's quite nice. If you look upon the seats, you can... There's like a nice, what's it called, logo of the tram company. So I think that's it for today's tram bashing. I have something to eat and then head back to where I'm staying and I'll be out bashing a lot more tomorrow. So it's day two of my tram bash around Katowice and the Upper Silesia there. But today I'm going to travel further away from Katowice, the city centre where we are now. I'm going to wait for the tram and I'm going to head out to another city or town called Byton. Well, I think I might find some narrow gauge railways as well. I'm not expecting them to be running, but I thought I'd have a look. These trams coming in now, these ones, I've noticed, do have a driver or have a cab agent, should I say. And they have, as you can see, the platforms on that side have doors on each side. So I wonder what sort of tram I'm about to catch. Looking forward to another day of bashing around the Upper Silesia there. Well, things haven't quite gone according to plan. I've ended up here as one of those funny little one carriage trams. What happened? The tram I was on, 851, has terminated there and I can see there appears to be some sort of engineering works now to connect the Katowice end of the network with the Byton end of the network. There's two through routes. Well, I noticed the other one, the track had been dug up. I think it's in connection. They're putting a new route in down there between the two. So the tram I was on, why they're using, it's the first time I've come to the end of a route, although it's only temporarily in a route, whereas no, return route. So what I'm going to do now, I thought I'm just going to walk along, see what I can find, and hopefully, I mean, there's a whole load of tram routes down there, so they must be running. And just see if I can find some more trams, beyond all this there are, I mean. Well, that question was quickly answered. They're putting it in a junction, so you can see tracks going that way, tracks going that way. That will go down to the other line, which runs through the city centre. And just up there, I can see another tram waiting. So I've literally had to walk. Just over there was, it's about less than a quarter of a mile, I've had to walk between where the engineering works taking place. So maybe one day I'll come here again and we'll ride that new route when it opens. I'm going to run up there now and try and get on that tram. So I called that tram, I've just got off it here. There's a big park here, like a theme park. I don't think it's open today. And it's got an hour-goes railway, so the plan is we can have a look. So we're not going to go into the park because it's closed and probably wasn't something I would have done anyway. But we can just have a look. So it's interesting that the park, the theme park itself is there. So that's where you'd pay to go in. Now I can already see some roller coasters, but this narrow-gauge railway I believe is here. So it doesn't appear to be running, but I think this building here might be the station. So we'll just have a look. This is just like a touristy narrow-gauge railway. And if it was the summer, I'd come and have a ride in it. So like just about everywhere I go, I've already given myself a reason to come back here. But I don't overly see it's worth we spending a lot of time exploring it because I'll just do it when it's running. You can obviously do a bit of work on the station, but yeah, here we are. Here is our first narrow-gauge railway, but it's not actually running. So you've got a run-round loop and there's buffer stops. Didn't bring a tape measure, so I can't tell you what gauge it is. I'd guess it's probably two-foot-six maybe, or what in, yeah, two-foot-six, but it'd be an emetric equivalent with a few roller coasters. So I think there's not really a lot else I can do here. There is also a cable car, which runs, it doesn't go off a hill or anything, it basically runs flat across the park. I'm not expecting that to be running either, so I'm afraid the best thing for me is to get back on the tram stop and continue exploring the trams. I've arrived here now, I would pronounce it as Churzo, but I'm fairly sure it's probably not how you pronounce it. This is just another one of the towns served by the Upper Silesian Urban Area tram network. And this is quite a major interchange. It's almost like the Clapham Junction of the system. You've got all these platforms, you've got a couple of trams there, a couple of trams there. There's an older single tram car up there from past two older tram cars earlier on, some older Polish built trams, that was good to see, because I was starting to think are they all, it's just going to be a city of all Pesser trams, which if it was, wouldn't be quite so exciting. So it seems that the Pesser tram seems to be concentrated on, on Katowice City Centre, but it says when you go further out, you can get older ones like this. This looks like it's been refurbished. So I'll just let this one come in, I'm probably only going to get a coffee and then I'm going to continue my exploration of the tram. It's about an hour now, winding my way around the suburbs, but we're heading towards the city of Bison now. That's where there is on our engage railway, so another one. My plan is to go and have a look, see if we can see anything. I'm not expecting it to be running, because they generally don't run in the season. This is early spring, it's March. This is really what I came to do, routes like this. I just really enjoy single track routes. Every now and then you pass another tram, give you an idea of the interior, just one carriage, seats on each side, doors, or seats all down that side, so only doors on one side. And also with it being a single track, there has to be a platform on both sides of the track. There's also a lot of, as you can see, sort of park areas and forestry areas you tend to see, and then you'll see a lot of flats. Also lots of old coal mines. I've seen numerous industrial railways, quite a lot of them abandoned, but one or two of them appeared to still be new, so I didn't actually see any trains on them. So I'm going to continue riding this now to Bison, and then we'll see what we can find there. It's quite a fun hour, riding the interurban routes of Upper Silesian Urban Area on this tram. This is by some city centre. It's on a big loop here, so all the trams are going that way. There's actually two loops. So this loop, there's this loop here, and there's an outer loop around the city centre, or it's hard to explain. So basically you've got, it's like two circles, and this part is in common with each. I'm going to now walk down to the railway station, because that's where I'm hoping to find that narrow gauge railway. Look at that building there, all those different coloured bricks. The really arse is some fantastic architecture to see here, which makes, you know, the riding around the trams all the more enjoyable.  Well, it's like possibly maybe an opera house or something, but with that, I really like that building over there. So I'm going to have a little look around Bison now, if that's how you say it, and then I'm going to go and find the railway station. So I got off the tram just down there, and this is you rebuild the station. You can't these steps up to the narrow gauge platform, which is funny, but I don't actually see trains running. I'm getting impression that was the main railway station, but they seem to be rebuilding it, so I think that would have been an underpass down there, but that's currently closed. So that's why they've sent this up here, and you have to walk along the narrow gauge platform. So like I said, this is a heritage line. It doesn't appear to be running today, so perhaps we'll come here again in the future to ride this railway line. It's quite a long line. It runs for quite a while out into the countryside, so maybe in the future we could do that. There's signs here. It's pointing to the railway station platforms. So that's the narrow gauge line going that way. So I'm sure there's two blokes standing there drinking. One shouted something at me, so I'm just going to get away from that area, and it's probably not really harm the through, so ask me what I was doing. Anyway, so it appears that was the station, and then this is the main railway station, strange entrance to a railway station. So whether it will be in a bit of a building site, or if we're going to see any trains, I'm not sure. So I think this is the current station. It's funny because this is quite a big city, and at the moment it appears that that is the only station they have. Very strange. Yes, it's a bit odd this. So yeah, I think that was the station over there. I'm crossing, I don't know how many running lines. There's just so many railways around here. It's hard to, but unless I've already sat down and studied what's what, which lines are main lines, which ones, you know, are the sort of more suburban lines. There's clearly a lot of work going on here, as you can say, that I think was the railway station. Not quite why I hoped for, because I thought, well, I would probably have got some to eat, right? Something's done now. Because if it's that there's loads of places to eat in the railway station, that doesn't seem to be here, so I'm probably just going to have to walk into Bighton Town Centre and find somewhere to eat, and then I've got more routes to explore. What I might do is later on, an hour a gauge line winds its way north from here, it probably crosses the tram route, so we might be able to find it. As for trying to see any locus now, let's hope I can work out where the depot is. I'm not so sure, but anyway, if I did want to show you, it was this signal box here. Look at that. We've gone off the track. I'm going to really like that. So I'm going to go to the Town Centre now and see what I can find to eat. Here we are in Bighton City Centre. This is the larger of the two loops, I said, which are called the City Centre. Now, once again, engineering workers forfeit my plans to do certain routes I plan to do. Look at here, the corridor going on. Now, so this is a single track loop, which the tram has run around. And this branch here, this goes to Route 38. Now, I'm not sure if Route 38 is running or not, but Route 38 is unusually, and it runs as a separate system. So the track that goes to Route 38 doesn't actually have any schedule passenger services. So up there, I should find Route 38. And it looks like a single track, possibly one tram just runs up and down it. And that sounds quite exciting. But I also want to do Route 6, because I think Route 6 has got the best chance of seeing any locos on the narrow gauge line, which we saw earlier. So that's where that's the outer loop. This way goes to Route 38. So I'm just going to go and see what I can find, really. It doesn't look like I'm doing Route 38 all down here, which I said is somewhere that Route 38 must have started. I'm not sure. I haven't seen any evidence of a return loop, but then, as we found, there are some double-ended trams. So it doesn't necessarily mean there has to be a return loop. I'm going to do a cross here. So this would be somewhere along here would be Route 38. Can you see there's some track being laid there? I'm wondering the fact that it looks slightly off-center. Maybe they're relaying it to double track. I'm not too sure. So Route 38 has to remain a mystery. There's a bit of old track just in the road there. So it's going to remain... I'll have to come back. I knew I was never going to do the whole network, even with it all running. The time I got here, it's just such a huge network. So I'm just trying to do the best bits. So what I'm going to do, I'm going to wander back down here. And so I'm going to have a go, see if I can do Route 6. First, I found a prison, or at least the building that was a prison. So that is the city centre loop. Now it continues around there, but trams heading out of the city on, I think it's routes, 1949 and 6, will turn left and go off over that bridge there. That's double track. I'm getting the impression that the loop going that way has become bi-directional. I'm hoping to find is a tram on Route 6. It'll take me to the end of Route 6, where, like I said, I might find some narrow gauge, interesting rolling stock. So I'm just going to have to wait and see what happens now. 6, although it's actually Route 10, or my map said Route 6, but we'll call it Route 10. It's a light problem. I didn't realise it was yet, and I've managed to ride onto the return loop, which sounds like a good track bash, but I'm stuck. Look, the rest of the road is over. I know there's two more trams in front of me, so I might be stuck on here now for a while, because I can get the tension to drive a bit. Yeah, somewhere near here is Narrages Road, which we're going to go and look for, though, once I get off this tram. The tram now needs to get the driver's attention, because he was going to. So if you come here, don't follow this. Now, when I was waiting on the tram, the key is the wheels were going round, so it's obviously still in use. I'll come off the beaten track a little bit from that end of the tram stop. There's the road to the tram terminator just before that bridge. There's a station there, standard gauge station, and then here, here's the narrow gauge line. Don't think I'm going to see any trains, but what I'm going to do, I'm going to head back back towards the way the end of tram route was, and see if I can find the depot. That's where we might see something. In the meantime, I might see a train in the main line or something like that. All the trains seem to be not a lot going on, unless I went to the main one, the main stations. Don't seem to be that lucky to see many trains today. You know, it's going to see what we can find. I've fired a little narrow gauge track up to here. It seemed it was a bit of an unofficial footpath. I could see a few dog walkers heading this way, so I just sort of fired them. There's another massive coal mine there, and that looks like an old power station over there. Now, that's what narrow gauge line. Looks like there's a line that went that way. We've come to a station. That's where we are. There's a signal box, more excitingly. There's a couple of steam locomotives up there, so this is a bit of an unexpected turn. I'm not sure if I'm really supposed to go and have a look, but I'm just going to go and see what I can see. So let's have a look up there. Going forward, found a few steam engines, a few diesel locos. There's a steam engine over there at the rake of a load of wagons, as if it's just worked out on the coal mines. Now I've got another steam engine over there. Going by its workspace built in 1955. I don't know if I'm really supposed to be here, but people about, and they've not said anything, and I have spotted people walking through the yard, you know, just on their way home from the shopping, so I don't think it's kind of quite as frowned upon as it would be in the UK if you were to just go wandering around. This is our little rail car here. So I've got a few of these, those Romanian diesels. Some quite big steam engines there. There's another one there. See, there's probably just down there just wandering through. Like this rail car. So yeah, it'd be great fun to have a ride up the lightning, but there's evidently no passenger trains running today. The scene I do particularly like is this here. If that steam worker wasn't quite so rusty, you know, it could look as though it's just come out the coal mine with a load of coal wagons. So this is great. It's just like a real time warp here. I'm going to wander off down there because there's other people coming from down there. I've got to find a way back to Tram stop and head back towards city centre. This may well be the fastest I've ever been on a tram. This is where you get with these interurban lines. We're probably out in the countryside now. We've headed further west from Byton to another town or city which I'm going to try and pronounce its name. But there there's room 3 which runs north to south, mainly all single track. Looks very exciting. Goes to more coal mining towns. This is really good fun. I'm really enjoying this part of the tram actually. It feels like we're more on a light railway. Just going around the corners quite wildly. And by the way, this is one of the house of the trams. I think I'm on now. So these are not as new as the Peser trams but they're obviously newer than some of the other ones. They are articulated. So this is great. I'm just going to continue to enjoy the journey and see what we find in the next town. These interurban lines take us to. So the place I said I was going to which I wasn't sure how to pronounce. It's called Zamska and I'm here in the town centre. So I came up there. Now there's a tram route going that way. That, well that's routes 1 and 4 which I probably will do later. That will take us to the extremity of the network. Now the railway station is not far from here but I just found some abandoned tram lines there. So it's obviously another route which they closed at some point. So it just shows that this system has expanded quite a lot. My plan is possibly tomorrow is to go and find the newest part of the network but that's down the other extremity. We just noticed on this spilled in here. See that there. That might be what the tram wires would have once been hooked into. So I would have come out and hold up the wires. I might be wrong but I think that's possibly what it is.  The end of route 3 and this time I actually got to go around the turning loop without staying on one. I shouldn't. The tram goes around the loop. So I've been travelling on to these older, believe it, Polish built trams. And in front of me is an Alstom built tram which I could use to get back. I'm not sure I might go for a little walk. There's a railway over there sometimes to go and have a look. But as you can see there's not a lot here. I filmed the whole route. I'm going to put that on a separate video. So if you'd like to see the route because it really is very off the beaten track. Have a look at link on screen now. I'm going to have a look at the railway station. I'm not expecting to see much if I do. I'll either put it in this or another video. Now I'm going to head back towards the city centre. And on I'll see here. I think that's a closed railway station. Little signal box. Signal box number 17. But unless the gates go down anytime soon I'm going to head back and catch the tram as I say back towards the city centre. I just got off the tram there. Now what's interesting on this section of line, single track. When the tram stops, cars just seem to know they stop. There's no traffic lights.  I also noticed that on that branch there was a level crossing and there was no traffic lights or anything. People just seemed to know they had to stop. Now originally I've got off at this stop wanting to do one of those single line in the middle of the street stops. That by the way I understand is the hospital. And the stop is named after the hospital. There's a statue here now. As I said there's a lot of coal mining. You can see he's a coal miner. You can see the lamp in his hand. Now around here I've seen various ones of these displayed but to actually find one I can show you because some of them have been behind fences and everything. There's obviously was with a coal mine lots and lots of narrow gauge railways above ground and underground. And underground there were probably miles of them. And here is one of the logos plinths here in this park. Now looks like it was overhead. You can see there was a pantograph. And I believe this here. This is what the miners would have traveled in to the coal face. So imagine sitting in that. It's tiny. Must be two foot gauge maybe. I should bring my tape measure shouldn't I? But look at it. It's kind of like the most exciting ride. But you'll be claiming an interesting low cost haulage. I don't know how many of them were there. They're probably thousands. Obviously you cannot have steam in that coal mine. It has to be electric. You can see where the driver would have sat. It looks like there'd have been a handle here and the driver would have driven it through the long dark tunnels. Now I mentioned that this loco would have taken people miners to the coal face. On the other side of this little square. There's a machine that you would have seen at the coal face. Now if we look across that machine there is what would have cut at the coal face I believe. So let's go and have a look at that. It's pretty big and I think these are like the teeth. So there's a spun round and round cutting their way through. Yeah. Well that is a beast of a machine. Look at this. So these teeth would have ground away at the coal face. You see it's like a sort of screw. So I suppose as the coal was caught up it would go that way. It's a huge change inside it. There's like a lower one and an upper one. I'm not sure what happened here in this bit here. Or no did it go that way? They've gone forwards that way. Yeah that's it. It would have cut forwards like that. So you've got an upper one or lower one and an upper one. And then if we have a look on this side. So yeah the coal must have somehow gone into here. It's not entirely sure how it worked. But yeah it would have cut the cut way. That's the important thing. So wow what a machine that was. And there is still coal mining going on here. As I mentioned earlier I've seen the pit head gears turning. So coal mining continues in this area. So down below us we're not literally here. But when we were at the route down below us these machines would have been at work. I'm going to now walk back towards the town centre. And I'm probably then going to catch a tram. It's going to get dark so it's probably not going to do too much more bashing. Because it's not too much point doing it in the dark. And I'll head back to Katowice have dinner. And then tomorrow we're going to go in the other direction. So I think this is it for today. So just when I said I wasn't going to do any more today. I was just going to head back. I was on my way back. I want this rather interesting section here. They seem to be relaying one line.  Because I spotted something which I simply cannot ignore. Spotted something from the tram. I'm going to go back and have another look. I'll show you what it is in a second. So this is this currently single track section. Because they're relaying it. So this track here is being relayed as we can see there. Now it's quite good you know why I spotted what I spotted. Because it means we can have a look at this. But this wasn't the reason for getting out. When I really thought I was heading back to the city centre to have dinner. As I was going along I looked out the window. Out of the darkness I saw this building pull it up. And then I saw DB cargo. I thought all something to do with railways. It must be DB's main offices. Continuing to look out the window. Not really expecting anything. I got a really nice surprise when I found this. A Kriegslock. So these are German built steam locos. Kriegslock it basically means war locomotive. It might could be a Class 50. Not the British Class 50 but the older version. The Kriegslock the Class 52 is basically an updated for the war locomotive. So it might be one or the other old. By the time this video is published I will know exactly what it is. But it's it's either a Kriegslock or a Class 52. It's great to see it. So Poland had quite a lot of them. We've seen them in various videos. I saw one only a couple of weeks ago in Riga at the Railway Museum. Of course that was a five foot gauge Kriegslock. So I'm really pleased to see this. This has really made my evening. But I am now going to walk back beside the relay tram lines to the darkest tram stop ever. And wait for tram to take me back to Kedavica. But this was worth getting out for. So yeah I'm going to marvel at it for a bit and then I'm catching the tram back to Kedavica. Today in this week's to find something else amazing. I want one of the old console trams. And this one seems to be completely original condition. I'm the only one of it. There's two of them. And with passing along this single-trap line it is supposed to be a double-trap route. I know you can't see much but it's great. I really enjoyed this. It's just like having my own private carriage to myself. That's what's quite fun about having single-carriage trams. It's just, I just really like it. I literally could just stay here till I've done every tram route about 10 times. But the time I've got here I just have to see what I can see. We're just passing so there's a pest and twist. No that's two old console trams. But I think some of them have been refurbished. This one hasn't. I also noticed that obviously this doesn't have moquettes on the seats. So is that a passing loop or are you back on double-trap? I think we might be back on double-trap. Anyway the more modern ones or the ones we just passed some of them have a moquette or a colliery pit-head gear on the seat. Which I think is fantastic. So I'm just going to continue riding this old tram through the dark until I get back to Kedemitstern.


Welcome. Thanks for joining us. I am excited to have each and every one of you. Today we have Ashwath Naranen joining us to talk. He is the founder and CEO of Social Current and he is going to talk to us about tackling emerging social media because we all know that social media is constantly emerging. It is constantly changing and I'm sure some algorithms will also change during this 30-minute episode. So before we dive into this conversation, we want to make sure that you of course know who we are as well just in case you forgot or maybe we haven't met yet. Julia Patrick is the CEO of the American Nonprofit Academy. We owe these episodes to you my friend because without you we would not be almost two years strong. I'm Jared Ransom, super honored, privileged, all those good really fun words to say thank you for allowing me this opportunity to serve alongside you in this role as co-host also known as your nonprofit nerd CEO of the Raven Group. And we are also extremely grateful, have so much appreciation to our presenting sponsors that allow these conversations to continue, that allow us the opportunity to meet with so many thought leaders that really just have gems of profound wisdom in our sector. So thank you to our presenting sponsors. And again, without further ado, welcome. Thanks so much for joining us here today, Ashwa. Thanks. It's so exciting to be here. I love the energy already. So excited to kind of talk and I love talking about emerging media. So excited to talk to kind of social media and how you can tackle it. Oh my god. So first off, I love that you gave me permission to like, okay, yeah, you can do this. We can do this because it is such a stressor for so many nonprofits. And yet you see the ones that are doing it well. They're grabbing the brass ring, those that aren't not so good. So let's get started with how did you start social current and talk about what it is that you're doing? For sure. So I'll talk a little bit about what we do and then I'll say why we do it. So social current is a creative studio based out of DC. We work with social impact organizations and nonprofits purpose driven startups to do everything from social media management to graphic design, web development. But right now we have a huge focus on emerging media platforms. And so in the short term, that's short form content. That's TikTok, Instagram Reels, YouTube Shorts, Snapchat Spotlight and influencer marketing on these platforms. Because we believe these platforms have the best ability to reach the largest number of people at the lowest cost. And we think that's effective for nonprofits. And so that's kind of what we do. We've got a team of about 12 in DC and across the country, we're all students. So I'm a student at GW. And also we're all young people focused on helping organizations reach Gen Z as well, because we think that's a large part of kind of the upcoming donor base. And so that's one thing we do. And so why we started it. So essentially I moved from India to DC, you know, two and a half years ago. Before I moved here, I spent a lot of time working full time at a marketing agency. And so I got kind of that marketing agency expertise. But when I came here, I did kind of in-house work, I helped nonprofits with communications with social media. And I found myself doing the exact same thing again and again, because a lot of nonprofits have this need, but they can't afford full time staff or large agencies. And so we really came in to kind of be that cost efficient kind of service, but also to help nonprofits reach younger audiences more effectively to platforms like TikTok and, you know, Instagram Reels, which we are native to. And so that's really why we started it, which is out of the need. And since then, we've kind of grown to do everything from large national nonprofits to, you know, large venture back purpose driven startups. And yeah, we've done everything from running, you know, influencer campaigns that have reached millions of people to social media campaigns that have driven event registration. But yeah, exciting to kind of be here and talk through different strategies you can employ as well. Wow. You know, when you mention emerging social media and you list them, I often hear of them firsthand from my 11 year old, who knows all of this faster, more like in depth than I do.  What are you talking about? I was like, Oh my gosh, how old am I? So I am thrilled to learn more about you. You are so right that our nonprofit sector, you know, there's 1.8 million nonprofits in the US. Julia and I share that often in this show. Many of these organizations, as you know, Ashwath are also working with like what I refer to as a skeleton staff. So there is so much on their plates. They wear so many different hats. So social media is often on the back burner, you know, or they just give it to anyone or any, you know, volunteer that will say, Okay, I'll take it on, but maybe without a strategy. So what you're doing here with social current is so needed, so needed. So thank you for that. And I'm hoping you can tell us more about like, how do we get started with some of these emerging social media? Because I even have a feeling, I don't even know if I should say it, but like Facebook is dead or dying. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I mean, that's a really good question. And I think it's really hard, especially because there's so many and they're so fast. And so I think the easiest way to start with the social media platform is consumption. It doesn't hurt if you're on these platforms, if you're consuming content, if you're just living on the platform without doing anything, I think then you understand what is happening because you know, social platforms are also another way to understand culture, understand the person, your people you're serving.  But TikTok is where I get all of my graphic design tips. TikTok is where I get a lot of food recipes. I get a lot of DC based kind of hacks to places to go, things like that. And so the way these algorithms are structured is whatever, whoever you are, they're going to cater to you. So you don't necessarily have to worry about like, I'm not, you know, the right fit for that platform. And so I would say just a very basic way to get started is just consume content and live on the platform a little and see what's happening because that in itself, you'll learn a lot. Great tip. I think the concept of information about learning is really important when we talk about the nonprofit sector and donors because donors change. And especially as we're looking at the economic power of younger donors, I'm wondering if you can give us an idea of why the nonprofit sector should be looking at this demographic. Because a lot of times I think we're very prejudice about this.  We need to go after the geriatric set because that's where the dollars live. For sure. I would say just a really quick statistic and I'll make sure to look it up, make sure it's right later. But 40% of the consumer market is Gen Z. And that's just, that's not audience. That's, you know, dollars. So that in itself shows the power of Gen Z. And then when you add millennials and younger millennials as well, it goes even higher. And so I think that statistic is really important to consider. And young people are buying a lot of things, but they might be buying things that they want. They're buying things that they want. They're donating to causes that they want to. And so I think it's important for nonprofits to keep that in mind when communicating with young people is like, if they're not, you know, necessarily buying or donating to you, it may not be because they don't have the money, but it might be in the messaging. It might be in what you're asking for. And so I think keeping that statistic in mind really highlights the power of young people. And also another thing with young people is like Gen Z and then Gen Alpha, the generation after Gen Z influence their parents, their siblings, people around them. And so that's another huge thing to kind of keep in mind because a lot of these social platforms and trends are being driven by young people. And so, you know, communicating and messaging and understanding what they want is very important to kind of build a future donor base, but also current donor base. Wow. I love that you said that the influence, because we don't talk about that enough. We think it goes the other direction. We think it comes down from the grandparents to the parents to the kids, but it can go up. Well, go ahead. I was just going to say, if you look at a platform like TikTok, that's a perfect example of how it went from down to up. It would started kind of a lot of kind of kids started using it, teenagers starting using it. And now there's the majority of the audience is over the age of 25. And so like it went down to up. They also have so many users and it's become a really popular app, one of the fastest going apps in the world in less than three years. And so I think that's an important down to up kind of thing to consider as well. Well, and I was going to say, you know, I've seen it in some of the programs for some of my clients in particular, when it comes to environmental issues, right? So like recycling has really, I've seen gone from down to up where our children are teaching us like, no, no, no, that doesn't go in the landfill, mom. That needs to go into the recycling bin. Or where should I put this banana peel as opposed to, you know, like let's toss it in the trash. So why not social media kind of kind of doing the same? So Ashwath, would you share, let's go into kind of like these early adopters. So when there's an emerging social media, you know, I was guilty saying like typically I learn it from my child. So who are the early adopters are of technology? And really, are they the same as our donors or our potential donor base? Yeah, I would say right now, the way it's been is there's kind of two early adopters that we've seen one is primarily Gen Z younger millennials. Those are one kind of base, which yes, they're definitely donors and they have kind of the money as we've talked about. And then the second one is the people making the technology. So you see the startup crowd, the people, software engineers, things like that. And when you look at a platform like Clubhouse, that was the crowd on there, the business crowd was on there. Again, Clubhouse didn't survive that that's a whole nother thing. But I think, you know, the makers of the software and the people who make this technology. And then I would say Gen Z and younger audiences. So those are two kind of segments, I would say they're definitely, you know, the same as donors. I think one thing to keep in mind is when, you know, an early adapter of technology, it moves from early adopters to like, you know, more really fast if the early adopters like it.  And so even if the early adopters are not your target donors, they're going to be at some point really fast. And so I think just keeping an eye on what's trending in the technology space and what's working in the technology space is very important to kind of keep in mind. So did I hear you say Clubhouse is gone? I did a little bit. Yeah. Because I was wondering about that. And I was like, okay, and that was kind of an invitation only or invitation to start maybe. And I know that there were some equitable issues around that saying, you know, like, well, why do I want to be on a platform if it's not accessible to all people? So it had an inequitable business practice. So yeah, tell me about this. So like also feel like, okay, we might jump onto an emerging social media platform. And then before we know it, it's like gone. Right. Yeah, I think, you know, Clubhouse, I was on Clubhouse from the start, but I never liked it primarily because of that kind of it wasn't accessible to people. I think like, you know, it's a good marketing strategy to make it invite only because people want to be on something that's invite only. It's not a good, exactly. It's exclusive. It's not a good brand strategy, though. It's not a good way to build an accessible brand that people want to go to. And so I think that was important to consider.  And I think that was a huge problem with the app when you look at, you know, other platforms, they're more accessible with alt text with subtitles, things like that. And so I think that was primarily another reason. But I think the concept of Clubhouse is very powerful, which is audio. I think audio is going to be very important in the future. That's why you see podcasts that are so important. And I think Clubhouse was a really clever way of having podcasts. But I think another way, you know, Clubhouse lack podcast is people listen to podcasts because they're very well crafted on Clubhouse. It was unfiltered. And so I think that's another thing with like audio. But I think the concept will live on in the future. I am not sure how. One thing I've been kind of experimenting or testing with is short form audio. I think there's something someone's going to build something around short form audio where like you hear three to five minute sound bites or one to three minute sound bites is a podcast series and things. I think that might be something that we see in the next one to two years. Maybe someone's already building it. But I think Clubhouse was not the right platform for audio. You know, I say we are executive producer Kevin Pace does that pretty much with every show. He picks out the 60 seconds of wisdom and then he repackages that. And when we look at the numbers, it's amazing how those have gone up because yeah, we are getting shorter attention spans and we need more quicker, you know, inputs into our what we're tackling. And so it makes sense. Okay, now I got to ask another really big question. And this is a tough, tough question. But how do we know when it's time to adopt something?  We were just like trying to figure out how to get on. I mean, how do you know when it's too early or too late? I think it's a combination of both art and science. I don't think it's like, you know, hard metrics or like, okay, this happens. And I know it's a new platform. But I think, you know, when when you see people around you on it. So one thing with Clubhouse is like, I knew like five other people that were randomly like, I'm on clubhouse. And so I think with social media word of mouth is very important to keep in mind when looking at a new platform, because the whole concept of social media is your friends are on there. And so seeing how many of your friends are on there or how many people are kind of, you know, on that platform, I think is an important thing to consider. And then with kind of emerging media, you know, you can always see the kind of technology that's there. So for example, like, you know, we, we can imagine going back to only photo sharing anymore, right? Because we've gone through that. And so looking at, you know, what technology is there, whether it's audio, whether it's video, I think it's important to consider. And then with clubhouse, the accessibility of things like, is it open to everyone? And is it available to everyone? I think it's important to consider. So I would say those are some things to know.  But I would say like, it's important to try things out, like it doesn't hurt you to test on a platform and for it to not work out. But it might hurt you if you never test on a platform. And so I think testing things out and being on different platforms, even if that's just from a consumption perspective, is important to consider when it comes to all these platforms. And then I think also looking at kind of social trends around the world, I think in the US we focus heavily on the United States and culture here. But I think if you look at, you know, Asia and China in particular, they're far ahead. And when it comes to social platforms, like, we can't even fathom like, in-app purchases, like TikToks just launching in-app purchases, Instagram, you know, recent, they've gone way ahead on in-app purchases where like, if you're watching a recipe, you can add all the ingredients to your cart and check it out immediately. And so looking at other countries and what trends they're bringing is important. And I think TikTok taught everyone the lesson where like, TikTok came from China and no one's not coming. But to be fair, it was there for a long time and people did see it coming. People just didn't want to. And so I think that's kind of also important to look at is like, what are other countries doing and what's popular there? I love that you reiterated what you said when we started the show was the consumption. So if you start anywhere or you don't know where to start, start simply by consuming and experiencing this new platform. And I'm curious, Ashwath, if you will talk a little bit about the overwhelm, the overload of all the platforms. I feel like for me in particular, as an individual, as a parent, as a business owner, as a consultant, I've been on so many platforms. And at a certain time, it's like, I'm done. I'm done. So would you be willing to talk to us about that kind of like when is when is too many too much? And then also kind of this overwhelm? Yeah, I think I think it's definitely important to kind of set habits. I think behaviorally, you have to understand that you need to implement this stuff into behavior. And so for one thing, kind of I do with social and I have to be on social a lot because I run an agency. But I think for me, I only consume social at like certain points. So if I have five minutes before a meeting, that's when I'll consume social. And so trying to like, because then five minutes later, I can't continue scrolling. I have a meeting, I have to go. And so like, if you're if you've got five minutes in the car, you know, you can do that, or like you're waiting to pick someone up, you can scroll. But then if you have an hour or two, you won't be on social. And so I think like using social in times where you can, you know automatically that you're restricted is what what I've used kind of for me to avoid myself from going on social because apps like TikTok or Instagram or Facebook, like the whole goal is to have you be there for as long as humanly possible. And so they build that in sell the features. And so you want to use it when you know you have to stop that way, you're not kind of continuing. And then from the perspective of like content creation, these platforms, because that's a lot too, I think repurposing content is something that a lot of people don't do enough, but also because there's not enough tools for that. And so I'm going to do a shameless promo of one of our clients, which is they're building essentially a video solution where you can upload videos, you can get a transcript, you can it's like Canva but for video, so you can get a transcript, you can get a clip, you can get a GIF, you can write a blog post with the transcript, you can resize it to Instagram, Facebook, you know, LinkedIn, Instagram reels, you can do it on TikTok. And so you can take one piece of content and repurpose it. And that often is a very easy way for you to, you know, be on multiple platforms without designing 10 different graphics for 10 different platforms and just like trying to meet those requirements. And so I think that's one thing I would recommend too. And what's the name of that company? They're milk.video. Milk.video. Okay, cool. That's brilliant. Yeah. We're going to have to look into that, Jared. And we're almost 400 shows episodes in, in this period of time. And that's not all of the 60-second lessons that Kevin Pace, our executive editor, has done. So we have tons of content. And I do see that. I mean, we're, there are times, Ashworth, where we could be pulling that back in because something's happened or it's a certain time of the year or whatever. And yet we, we let go all of this content. And I think a lot of nonprofits feel that way, you know, they have different times of the year where they're trying to market or share or unite the community around a certain topic. And then it seems like they've got to start all over. They just let all that content go. 100%. And it's really hard. And I would also say like, knowing that it's not easy, like it's not easy to repurpose content. Like it is a hard thing. And so like, knowing that you're not alone, like that, like people who, you know, are able to do that, like they have teams or they have really good, you know, really good software stack. And so if you're not able to do that, like that is completely fine. And also like, if you're not able to get something out like in two hours, that's fine too. Like, you know, content doesn't have to live for 24 hours. It can live longer. And I think a lot of the tips and a lot of the insights that you might want to share, you know, if they're only living for a day, then maybe you want to refocus on insights that live longer because I think, you know, giving yourself time to repurpose content is also key. And being patient with it is also very important. Okay, I don't think anyone's ever said that. It's always just the opposite. There's always this pressure to get it out, get it out now. And even to the point where I think you see a lot of crap, to be honest, getting out, because it's rushed. And then you're on to the next thing. So I like that you just said that to be a little bit more patient and thoughtful. It kind of also makes me think, Jared, that maybe in the nonprofit sector, we worry so much about who's sitting in the chair in our office, and that we need to be expanding our knowledge and an outreach to working with the consultants and the providers that aren't sitting in our offices, but that we're partnering with. Well, you know, I have said this, and I will say it again and again and again, that our sector has been long overdue for a shake-up. And I have heard too many times of nonprofit leaders, whether it's a grant writer, whether it's a social media manager, whomever to say, I need this person in the office. I need them physically, visually here in the office. But I think where we fall behind, we nonprofit sector, is that we don't let the experts be the experts. Right. And so we have Ashwath, we have this amazing social current team. Yes, they're in DC, but they're experts. Right. And so why not utilize this level of expertise to help move our mission-driven goals forward. So I think there needs to be more of that. I know that as we're seeing this great resignation and this negotiation of people in their current jobs, but also seeking new jobs, remote is here to stay. And I really think that that is going to be a great open door opportunity to engage with these experts in all levels. It's pretty remarkable. Okay, Ashwath, we don't have much time. I've got one more crystal ball question for you. And that is, if we're adopting some of these new technologies and these new platforms, what percentage of business do you think that we should strive for? So for example, let's say we look at our pie of donors and their activity. If we are to adopt new technologies, really engage in social media, what kind of bump do you think that that will happen or will impact our nonprofits? Or is there a number that we should say, okay, we're going to strive to get, and I'm just making this a 5% increase in donors or 3% or 30, what do you advise your clients? Yeah, I would say, especially in the start, I would look at it 3 to 5% and then bumping that over time to a 10%, I think at least from social directly. And then I would also look at kind of converting maybe like another 10% of all the social content through ads or influencer marketing or paid and using all the creative that you're doing for that initial 10% to get another 10% by paying for that 10%. And so I would say that we are able to get 20%. And then I would also kind of encourage using pulling people out of social, so doing webinars, using social at the top of the funnel and then converting them to webinars, programs, courses, things like that, so that you're adding on kind of other screens of revenue, but also increasing our audience. I think using social as a top of the funnel mechanism versus like a middle of the funnel, I think is very important in terms of marketing is like social is where people see you and come in, and then you have to do all the other work inside of that to get them to kind of stay and get them to donate. So that's what I... Yeah, I think you're right. I mean, you have to... I love what you said. You got to do the work. You get the introduction, but you can't stop. You got to do the work. I love that I would refer to it as that sales funnel, the sales cycle. And that's exactly what we're doing. So we're reaching them social media, but then where are we taking them through the journey to become more involved, more engaged, more tied to our mission with the ultimate goal to really gain a new investor regardless of demographic, regardless of age. Earlier this week, we had a conversation about cryptocurrency, and I'm imagining, Ashwath, that there is a huge overlap in the individuals that are on these emerging social media platforms giving through crypto as opposed to, as I'm going to quote, my sensei, Julia Patrick. I know when it comes to this geriatric donor database, it's like we need to be in the emerging frontline, whether it's social media, whether it's the actual financial transaction. And I think really these two marry themselves quite well. Yeah, 100%. I'm seeing a lot of uptake in social impact projects and the NFT space and decentralized technology. I think that's definitely going to be a huge part of donations, at least going forward. I don't think we're at that stage yet where people can do it at scale, but we're definitely in that early adopter stage where nonprofits that are able to get into the space are benefiting. I also, you know, the NFT space is a bubble right now, so I would make sure to do all research as much as possible when doing it. I'm not the expert on NFTs or crypto, but I've been kind of exploring the space, trying to figure out what I can do there because I don't know exactly. Exactly. I'm consuming right now.  I don't even know what to buy, but I was like, okay, I'm not investing in this. I'm just buying this. I'm just trying the whole process.  You can spend, you know, $50 and buy a really small thing or really, you know, it doesn't even have to be good, but I would say like trying the whole process and exploring it is one way to kind of start consuming in this space. I loved, I love, love, love so many of the things that you said today, really, really impactful. Here's your information, socialcurrent.com. Check them out, really some great ideas. I love, love, love what you said about the consumption aspect and how we move forward with a lot of our decision making if we understand what it means to be a part of it and be a part of that space. Socialcurrent has a bright future. In the chitty chat chat, if you were with us, your team's working with somebody, a big team in our community, on the other side of the country. So that's pretty exciting. So that spoke volumes to me. Hey, again, I'm Julia Patrick, CEO of the American Nonprofit Academy. I've been joined by my dear friend, the nonprofit nerd herself. I always say she's my nonprofit nerd, your nonprofit nerd, the nonprofit nerd, Jared Ransom. Again, we want to thank all of our sponsors without you. We would not be here having these robust discussions. And as we like to end every episode, we want to remind you to stay well so you can do well. We'll see you back here everyone tomorrow. Have a great day.


Who would you rather have? Cooper Cup or Staphon Diggs? Cooper Cup. Hey! Cooper Cup, baby! Shoulda won MVP last year, but we're not gonna talk about that. No, I agree, I agree. Oh, Diggs. Diggs is the answer. To be a Diggs, baby. Diggs to the end zone. I'm him! I'm him! Cooper Cups or Staphon Diggs? Cooper Cups to Staphon Diggs. Cooper Cup.