To shed some light on how successful OBE might be in benefiting all South Africa's learners, we asked John Gueltig, the editor of the series of modules, to talk to Carola Steinberg, whom we met in part two of this audio tape. And we've moved towards an outcomes-based curriculum now. Does this mean that we're going to have a more equal society? Will this new curriculum serve people equally? The intention, of course, is yes. In reality, though, there is more than simply a policy document of curriculum. There are different contexts in which people teach and in which schools operate. Let's take an example. We've got a child who lives in a squatter camp somewhere, in a formal settlement, goes to the local school, and you've got somebody who goes to Poctine Boys High, who will experience the curriculum differently. An expensive private school will have more equipment, will have more books, will have a better stocked library. Also, a more expensive school will have better qualified teachers, and teachers that have more subject knowledge than a school in a squatter camp, because they can afford to pay for more highly qualified people. There will be a huge difference. I've heard many stories of kids going to the same school. So let's say girls and boys going to exactly the same school, and yet they perform very differently, and not just one girl or one boy, but it seems like they're actually getting a different curriculum. What's happening in situations like that? That was one of Bernstein's big questions. Bernstein himself was a working-class person that had gone through the system, became a teacher, was very keen on working-class children making it, and then saw that the working-class children weren't. And he knew from his own experience that it wasn't the children's fault. What was the cause? He then went to university and spent many years researching that question. What is it that makes children from working-class backgrounds seem to benefit less from what school is offering compared to children that come from more privileged backgrounds? What was his answer? I think he had many answers. But one of the answers that he gave was that children with working-class backgrounds come to school with different skills and different ways of viewing knowledge, and they are less able to hear and relate to and work with what the teachers are saying because they're coming with different expectations and with different understandings of knowledge. Working-class kids come in and they are confronted with a kind of knowledge that is not familiar to them. And so they start off school with a disadvantage because school doesn't reach out to them and make an effort to make that academic knowledge familiar to them. School isn't geared for that. What do we mean by academic knowledge? And what my understanding of what academic knowledge does is it helps people to structure thought, it makes things more abstract, more in terms of systems, it places a lot of emphasis on logical progression and less emphasis on anecdote or immediate life. If one comes to an area of knowledge without there being some kind of mediation of those concepts of those shortcuts of that vocabulary that is being used in that field, then you can listen to that conversation as much as you want. You won't understand it because you don't have the pre-knowledge. Why would middle-class kids be able to handle that sort of knowledge? Because middle-class kids get a lot of the preparation for that from their home. Why? In what ways? Because their parents have that kind of knowledge in their heads and so they spend a lot of time teaching the children. Just through everyday conversations? Through conversations, through puzzles, through games, I mean- Through having books? Simply, for that matter, from reading to with three books to your child every night before it goes to sleep. And a lot of middle-class families start that when the kid is like a year old. So that by the time the child reaches school, it has heard many stories. It has seen many pictures. It has probably learned to read simple things itself already, whereas a working-class child will come from a family where they know books or where there's only the Bible, which is not very accessible to a child. They have to start the process of reading from the beginning. So they're starting, in a way, with a disadvantage. And the school doesn't pick that up. How should schools address that? If you have a majority of children that don't fit the curriculum that you're expecting, then of course you must change the curriculum to suit the children. Because always the children are more important than a curriculum. One way a teacher can do that is to use examples from the children's own lives as the content through which she teaches the skills that she wants to teach. Because a teacher is trying to teach skills. You're trying to teach people how to read, how to do mathematics, how to structure your thought in a logical, coherent way. But you can choose lots of different kinds of content in order to do that. So if you're in a rural village and say you wanted to teach reading, you can choose texts and stories that come out of the culture of those children. So that when they're learning to read, they're interested in the stories, they can relate to the stories, and their focus is on learning to read. And they immediately see the purpose and the value of reading, because it gives them access to stories that they love. You wouldn't, in a rural context, choose stories about children playing computer games or American space research, because the children wouldn't be able to relate to that. So you would choose content that is appropriate to your children. Don't you run the danger then of permanently marginalising working class kids? I mean, surely in the world in which we live, you require a lot of that academic knowledge. You require the sort of general abstract principles of maths or a whole lot of other things in order to work or certainly to be successful. I mean, you don't need it to work as a cleaner somewhere. So isn't the danger that you, what actually happens is that working class kids will remain working class forever if you give them just that concrete knowledge, just the stuff from their particular village or their community? Absolutely, yes, that is the danger. So what one needs to do as a teacher is to use the everyday knowledge to scaffold children into the more abstract, more academic knowledge. Okay, when children have read five stories about their own village, well then they're absolutely ready to start reading stories about America or Asia or other places in the world to start improving their general knowledge. The danger of taking only from the context of the children is that you ghettoise them. You don't give them access to the broader world and you don't give them access to how other people are thinking.


Na kutu ni, heya kuyiri kupumamisha. Moshotu katia stubusama argurne curveswa, bumala hogea bati kwa UU Trust und Afrika, UM Festival tato mga gnda, kwa umuze wajini. Omi maka uqa wajini naka kwa UAA sparku u titlea, uqa wajini kwa mnda hiri paka kétaitu aso wajini naka kwa uqa hiraba. Koronu hiraba hiraba wajini. Uqa mga SOS, uqa udisha kwa venda kwa hiraba wajini, uqa mga transporta, uqa hiraba kwa hiraba, hiraba kwasandunu polisiya, praktisu, and all at risk populations coming together to gain from this knowledge and information that was being shared, and actually a number of them enrolled as change agents so that they are able to fight against the crime of human trafficking. In these installation campaigns, we intended for people to have an increased knowledge base so that they can be able to make informed immigration decisions. In these campaigns, we have an impact that we hoped for. One of them was a mitigation of risk factors that predisposed migrants into the hands of traffickers, and then also it was for us to strengthen referral networks whereby we were informing people on how good it is to report, where to report, when to report, and also seek additional information regarding human trafficking so that they can be able to make informed migration decisions when they are ready to move.


More or not, the Ethiopia way authorities have rounded up high-profile Tigrayans from a bank CEO to priests as well as United Nations staff in the mass crackdown on suspected supporters of rebellious Northern forces. Now, this is according to people linked to the detainees. Ethiopian authorities have rounded up high-profile Tigrayans from a bank CEO to priests as well as United Nations staff in a mass crackdown on suspected supporters of rebellious Northern forces. People linked to the detainees told Reuters police denied targeting the Tigrayan ethnic group saying those arrested were believed to have links to the Tigray people's Liberation Front or TPLF which has fought the central government for a year. Ethiopia declared a state of emergency last week that permits the government to arbitrarily arrest without a court order anyone suspected of collaborating with a terrorist group. Parliament designated the TPLF as a terrorist group earlier this year. The state of emergency also requires citizens to carry ID cards that can indicate ethnic origin. The war has killed thousands, forced more than 2 million people from their homes, sucked in troops from neighboring Eritrea and left hundreds of thousands in famine. U.S. Secretary of State Anthony Blinken on Wednesday said he believes all sides see the dangers of perpetuating the conflict and warned that there is no military resolution to the differences between the parties. There is an opportunity, I hope, for everyone to pull back, to sit down, to get a halt to what's happening on the ground and ultimately to produce a ceasefire, to have access for humanitarian assistance and over time to negotiate a more durable political resolution. These are United Nations staff members. The United Nations said on Tuesday at least 16 Ethiopian staff and dependents were detained but has not specified their ethnicity. On Wednesday it said nine were still in custody. The Ethiopian Human Rights Commission said the arrests of Tigrayans were at least in the hundreds including elderly people and mothers with children.


Right. My name is Ashik Khan. I'm from Entity Docomo and I have Ryota Mibu from NEC and Julian Dhanju from Red Hat. And three of us from three different segments of the industry will share our experience with you on how to work upstream with OpenStack. So, well, from the presenters, again, the segment of the industry point of view, I'll give you the operator's view. After that, Ryota will give you the telecom vendor view, and Julian will share you the developer's view in working upstream with OpenStack. For my part, one thing is I do not imply anything or do not trying to give you any advice. Through my work with OPN and the doctor project and OpenStack, I'll just share with you a few things. I thought was helpful towards me in being successful in OpenStack. I think in the keynote, you saw the demo of OPN and the doctor today where Mark cut the cables. So, that implemented telco grade fault management feature in OpenStack. We started that project two years ago. I'll basically share you my experience of that two years. So, from operator's position point of view, my role basically is to convince the community about the use case that what I'm trying to develop, what I'm bringing on the table is quite useful for not only for DoCoMo, my company, but for many other companies. Let's put it that way. And then I need to find out developers who will help me writing the codes and implement it in OpenStack. These two are my primary roles. So, the use case. This is somehow somewhat a complicated picture. But I come from a mobile operator. Obviously, I'll bring a requirement that is useful to mobile operators. I'll not explain you the figure. This is 4G mobile core network. Each of these nodes, the rectangles you see, they basically host few hundred thousand mobile phone sessions. So, the point I want to make as soon as you show this figure to a mobile operator, someone from mobile operator, and you explain them the problem, they instantly understand. They understand the severity of the problem. They understand the necessity of solving this. So, each of these nodes, as they're hosting few hundred thousand subscriber sessions, if one goes down, few hundred thousand mobile phones is their connection, they try to reconnect. Going down is still okay, by the way. They try to reconnect instantly, creating a congestion no one can handle. You cannot recover the node, actually. So, the problem, this problem as soon as you explain to someone from the mobile operator, they instantly understand. And I use this slide a lot in different presentation. Along the process, the opnv doctor project, we have five largest, well, some of the largest mobile operators as commuter and contributor in the project. So, you've got to have a decent amount of user support for your project. So, you explained the use case very well. You should do that. I did that. Now, that's what the mobile operator understand. And that's a very large scenario. That's about high availability of a mobile telecom system. But what exactly the problem I'm trying to solve? I cannot solve everything at the same time. There are many other problems. The feature I want to develop is basically this. So, you have, let's say, two green telecom nodes. And the five-nine story you heard in the keynote session today is in order to, well, let's say, ensure five-nine, you will have a hot standby. There is no other way. So, just follow the animation. If there is a fault in the infrastructure, the cloud management system, Veeam OpenStack, needs to collect that fault information instantly. It needs to find out who we should inform about the fault. And it needs to send out the notification in real-time, possibly as soon as the fault was found. Now, the VNF manager, application manager, it switches to standby. And the standby becomes active. So, that's how you actually ensure five-nine. This is the whole feature set I need to develop.  I need to scope it. You have to scope your work to, well, preferably in a quite small problem space. And I'm using the HCNAV end-to-end architecture, because for an operator, the end-to-end view is quite important. And the flow I showed in my previous slide, if you fix the scope to the cloud manager, Veeam, virtualized infrastructure manager, it basically boils down to one node-bound interface, which I have shown as ORVI, which will send the notification to upper management system. And there is the south-bound or, you can say, westbound interface, which will collect the fault. Basically, basically, in principle, only these two features. So, it is important to scope your work, and it is also important to use a reference architecture or system in order to socialize with a wider audience. Using a reference system is very helpful. Now, from here, I try to reach the open-source community. In order to do that, on telecom, I speak a different language. My specification, everything I've written in different terminologies. And this is, I actually did, and I did it because of the feedback I got from open-source community. So, it's talk open-source. I have, again, used the same HCNAV architecture that we use, and we already commercialized that in our network. But I do not use, let's say, NFVI or, let's say, cloud manager, virtual infrastructure manager. I have changed them to something more comprehensible to the OpenStack community. So, where exactly the positioning of OpenStack instead of using VNF, VMs, what people will easily understand. This translation work, I would say, is necessary and was very helpful. Now, you have to find out resources. You have to bring resources, you have to find out resources. And different skill sets are available from the different segments of the industry. Operators can give you a practical requirement. And the requirement I brought in, the OpenNV Doctor project, it came from our everyday life operational experience. We used OpenStack in our network, and we found out that this feature was missing. And then, if it was missing, it has to be custom built, expensive. Well, let's try to do it in open source. So, operators, network architect can give you an end-to-end view. And when you are developing a microfeature, it might have different kinds of, let's say, impacts on its neighboring functional blocks. It's better if you have a network architect who can actually solve these things on an end-to-end basis. You need developers who will actually write the codes and develop it. After that, you'll need the system integrator vendors who will put the solution in, again, a complete end-to-end commercial system. And then operator will, again, deploy it. My view is, looking at the contributors and commuters in the OpenNV Doctor project, for a successful feature development, I would say it's better to have all of them. It's not, well, let's say it's not necessary, but it's better if you have all of them. It will make the process from requirement development to actually commercialization quite fast. Engage your upstream community. It is very important. What I'm doing over here, actually, participating in events, you need to find out who is interesting. It is developing a decent crowd behind you who support the use case and who thinks it's necessary. Reaching out to the developers, find out key contacts when you are working through the corridors, invite, let's say, Nova Core Developer or a Neutron Core Developer to your breakout session. We did it. We just went to them and said, can you come and join one of our meetings? It would take 30 minutes. They gave us very valuable advice. And actually, some of the time, they just straightforwardly say that it's not possible. So we changed direction at an early stage, actually. And, well, it is also, again, finding out resources who will do the work. A good start point is to find out in your own ecosystem. So I'm a telco. I have a telco vendor relationship. Vendor has a vendor-to-developer relationship. From there, your first contacts, I'd say, will come from there. And I actually found out many interested people through my presentations in different summits. So a multiple representation in OpenStack Summit actually matters. This is my summary from an operator's perspective. To summarize the whole thing, socialization is the key. You need to talk to a lot of people, find out the right people who can help you, will write the code, who will also influence the open source community, let's say OpenStack community as well. Find out a decent crowd behind you. Find out support from your own community. If you are mobile, I'm mobile telecom, so find out more telecom supporters. And this is important. Availability is a very large topic. Keep it small one step at a time. So developing a southbound interface for one particular feature and a northbound interface for one particular feature, basically sending one message out, is not that difficult. When you present that, take it to the open source community, people will be reluctant to send out. So go step by step and do care about the existing code base. Don't develop anything, well, if you develop anything that has a negative impact on the existing code base, it will not be accepted anyway, but better not take it the first place. It creates a good impression about you. And lastly, one point I want to emphasize, there are ways you can bring your requirements to the open source community. You have different working group, you have Etherpad, you can write your requirements there, but the point I want to make, it's better if you do more. Just writing the requirement there and then disappearing and hoping that someone else will develop it for you. That will work, but it will work faster if you yourself participate in the actual work. That's all from me. I'll hand over to a telecom vendor, Ryota Miibu from NEC. Thank you. Thank you. So I'm Ryota Miibu, working in NEC and also OP NFE doctor project. And also I'm core of the OpenStack alarming project, AODH, or A. And so I'm standing between the telecom operators and developers who are working in the OpenStack. And telecom operator has a requirement, a use case, and it's very huge and sometimes bad, but we bring those requirements to the developers and this is not the one-way communication. We have to have some discussions back and forth and checking what is the problem and what could be the solution. So I hear these three messages when I run during the past two years. So first you can find a requirement use case while you are supporting operators to develop their desired features. Then after that you can find out solutions by interpreting operator needs and developer ideas back and forth repeatedly. And then you can do some integration. Then integrate software component into the huge telecom systems and that time you might find some bugs or some other things. So then you should have still hanging on the OpenStack or open source community, upstream communities and improve the code or OpenStack or softwares, whatever. And then at that time you still have to remind that you should bring the problem and solutions or code comes later. So that's the generic my messages. And then I'd like to share some of my experience that I found during the OpenIP Doctor project. So first we learn the problem from the operators and they have very clear use cases but not dictated as solutions. As you can see, Ashik mentioned one orange block that was we called BIM and it can be covered by OpenStack. But as you may know, OpenStack is very huge. There are many components in it. So we have to identify what feature are they going to use.  So you can see some slide up there. So the upper one is taking a longer time to get the service back to the original one when the failure occurs. And the bottom one is improved one. And we still have time to wait for new VMs coming up but it really shows what they think about the problem. Because when I showed this slide to the operators, they said it should be fine. They still have active standby node. So when the failure found immediately, then they can switch their status of the VM or the application. And then the service can continue. So yes, so we have a lot of conversation with them and asking operators if the problem analysis is correct or not. And then we have a lot of discussion with the developers and during that we really think about the gap between Tereco and Cloud. So Tereco has more like a suit style and developers like jeans and t-shirts. And the mine is so different. But they still have the same thing. So for example, Tereco is saying we have to find out failure and we have to switch over to the backup VM and the main service running. And Debra also says, so what we need is to translate their terminology and figure out what they are talking about and make sure they are on the same page. So as you can see on the right bottom, we have many dark blue boxes and that are covering one big orange box that you saw in the ASIC slide. And then we talk about how we can make the better solution. So for instance, asking some salameter cores, developers, hey, how about this feature? Then we can find failures very quickly. Maybe we can implement this way. Then they said, no, this is not good and not the right direction of the project. And then we have many conversations and finally we got the solutions and implemented it. And we also have more discussion with the Nova folks and neutrons and also we get great support from Congress. So that was awesome. And then we can figure out what is the solution can be across various OpenStack projects. And at that moment, we already jumped into the upstream committee, but after we implemented missing features in the upstream committee, we integrated them and having a system test or functional test in our own environment or we also have our own CI pipeline in OP NFA. And then we have integrated those features and run test databases and find out some bugs. When we find out such bugs, we put it immediately to the upstream committee and try to fix with them. That's very nice to having the same direction with the upstream community. And yeah, so that was awesome. Sorry. So then next idea is that joining code review or some other project activity, then you can learn the software itself and also the project direction. And then you can also find the key developer who should talk about the specific features and then you can send a patch with some discussions with the folks and skip this one. And this is my final slide and I also want to ask you to think about the upstream. So I think upstream has two meanings. So one is something you are relying on. So you should report a bug or you can ask developer to improve the features something like that. And that is one of the main motivation that we have and we did many upstream communications and development. The second one, if we think about some libraries, so you might know many libraries, Python library or GNMC, whatever. So good developer knows good library and sometimes develop their own library. So it's really nice to have more better modular software architecture and I saw that the person for making Python libraries was so quick and they also reduce many code in the open stack branches and first time I saw his patch I was very excited that he did many lines of code and just inserting one line and at that moment he already implemented some new Python packages and the person is Julian. So I would like to pass to Julian this presentation and let's run more. Thanks. So I'm Julian from Red Hat. I happen to be the PTA for telemetry with Cycle. So first thing I want to talk about is the usual things we see in our projects from people coming, I would say, from the outside and talking with us about what they want to do in the project, what they want to achieve in telemetry. But it applies a lot to the other open source project in open stack or inside of open stack. So there's a big gap between the culture of the enterprise and cooperation and the open source one. So you see that less in open stack in particular because there's a lot of companies engaged in open stack, but that's even more true in the rest of the open source culture. So for example, meetings, it's very natural to trigger a meeting, like Ashik said, we just triggered a meeting and people came. That works pretty well in some open stack projects. It works well less in other open stack and other open source projects when you don't have meetings because you can maybe see people. So it's a different mindset to have, you may not be able to regroup people in the same room and talk to them. For example, a thing that I always find weird even nowadays is when people want to do a meeting with me because I'm the PTA over Skype, I'm like, what? That's weird. That's not the open source way of doing things like send me an email or talk to a friend on my list or something, but doing Skype meetings doesn't really something that is open source. You have to take that into account, for example. There isn't less notion of customers in the open source. We have users, we don't have customers. So if you start talking about your customers, that's your problems in general. You have people and developers working in companies a lot in the open stack community, that's true. So that helps a lot, but in general, we assume that all projects have customers. So that's something we in hierarchy is very different. I think it's pretty obvious, but there is no boss in open stack. And especially not the PTA, so don't always go to the PTA because it's the boss and it's going to solve your problem if you're not happy with a developer or for a feature or whatever. And that's one of the main problems that I have as a PTA is that people always come to me with their problem and I'm not a problem solver. I'm just the guy doing the liaison for the project, the vessel, and that's not a good job even. It's like always people coming and winning, winning about their issues or a problem. It's not helping anything, so don't do that. It's a terrible thing. We see less nowadays, fortunately, but it's still true sometimes. It's cool to go and see and talk to the PTA as a liaison and it will redirect you to over guys in the community. But then you need to engage and to put efforts on your side. Catalan versus Bada, that's an old, known concept from the open source, which is a different way of thinking of things and how you build them, where open source communities tends to be very less organized on a corporation. There's not a lot of bureaucracy in general in open source, but it might be less true nowadays in open stack, but still in general there's not a lot of processes or things that either are key, basically. But it does not work. Same thing about individuals and corporations. People tend to think they're in an organization where there's a lot of people, even in open stack, who see themselves as individuals working on things that they're passionate about or interested in at least. So that's some things that you really need to understand for jumping into open stack and talking to people. Otherwise it's a bit weird and you might end up being rejected just for that without understanding why. So understanding the model of open source, that seems weird too, but we also have people not always understanding the problem, for example, the licenses or back then when we had Stackforce. So, for example, an anecdote, we have in telemetry as that's a few years ago, somebody wrote some background code and they sent us the code and they said, well, so I wrote this code and we said, oh, that's very useful for telemetry, thanks. But I work at a company and I don't know which license I can use, so I'm going to go and see my lawyers. So the guy goes, he has lawyers and he says, okay, my lawyers, okay, I can put my code on Stackforce with the Apache license, that's cool. We say, okay, that's what we want to do, so that's okay. And then we start to put the code there and a few weeks later, we change our mind and we say, well, we don't think Stackforce is a good place for you, I think OpenStack directly is a better place. The engineer says, oh, I don't think we can do that because the lawyers only authorize Stackforce and not OpenStack. And we say, well, it's Apache license so we can do whatever we want with it. You don't have to ask your lawyers, you can ask them but you don't have to. I mean, even if the engineer understood that, the company itself was not really to understand this kind of problem with licenses and what you really allowed to do, et cetera. So it's something pretty important to know. Sometimes you understand that your company behind does not understand everything about licenses and the model behind OpenSource. Like Ashik pointed out, if you have only IDs and you write that on a TAPAD and then disappear or don't have any resources, being most of the time developers, sometimes hardware to offer is not very worth talking often to people. We had people in telemetry for months talking to us with IDs, which were sometimes good IDs but no resources to offer. So you can say, it's a good ID every month but at the end of the day, if you don't have anybody to write the code, you're just wasting every runtime. So if you have a lot of IDs and you see that you count up and they are well received, it's cool but the next thing for you is to find people to add write codes or whatever is needed to move on. As Ashik said, to explain your ID so when you are in an NAV context, for example, I don't know a lot of things about NAV and telco. So I think somebody like Ryota coming in and explaining to us what the use case is, what was the business context. Not everyone. Opposite is very large. So there's a lot of different businesses, a lot of different use cases that might be covered so you can't know about everything. So you have to change your term sometimes or split a problem in smaller problems to be able to explain that to people and not bring with this is my problem deal with it. So what you really want to do because I started with everything that we saw was bad is to observe so that's one of the key and that's always what I did for the last 20 years doing open source. The first thing you need to know is to observe the guys you want to work with. That means subscribe to the mailing list, read the topics, try to find every resources there is on the project because going to a project and saying, oh, I have this idea, it's awesome. We should do that and then the developer says we already had that for two years.  So do your own work first and observe along from your community, along who's doing what to such an extent that you can because sometimes it's a bit blurry or the community is too big but a lot of the community, even an open site, are very small, it's very easy to find out what's happening. So observe and learn from the project if there are documentation with them. Sometimes there's not, so that's not your fault. Next thing before trying to push new features is to try to help. So that if you have resources and developer that's the best thing that you can do is to send a few people to try to help. If you learn and observe a project most of the time you're going to install it and you will find bugs. So the first thing you can do is to try to report bugs and work on that level, et cetera, et cetera. It's very easy but it's way better to build trust this way than to jump into a conversation or into a session and say, oh, there's some feature ID of this problem I want to solve and this is the way we're going to do it. This won't work. So it takes time to build that but it's the best way to enter a community and be part of it. And another problem we always see especially for new features is that people tend to really want to solve their problems which is a very narrow minded view of the general problem and that's often be rejected by the community because you have your view of the problem that the developers, they're here with you and they're also here with another group of users with a different set of problems and sometimes these problems overlaps. So they need to generalize the problem so if you can help with that to generalize the concept behind your problem and solution it helps a lot of people, developers, to be able to write code that will solve your problem. Training engineers So most of the time when you send engineers especially to an open stack they are not trained to do open stack. We still have this problem today in telemetry in a lot of other open stack projects where we have newbies coming and trying to help us but not in a good way because they didn't start by observing or asking how they can help the community trust that we need and they're just flooding us with things that are useless and so the worst thing you can do is hire a developer and send them to a project and say, okay, do open stack now and we see that a lot these last cycles and it doesn't have anyone so don't do that either it's pretty bad. You need to train them and to explain exactly what I just said what is open source, how it works how the community works what is the culture behind it's not your company culture it's open source, open stack culture which is different, like I said Do not try to recognize if you find somebody, some group some developer, some PTA, whatever but you don't like or whatever it's okay, it's humans after all just switch take another route go to another project somebody different don't build conflicts so never do that humility is a very important thing in open source in general so terrible thing we saw too is that you saw the developers and you start building trust and then you say everything you did guys so far it sucks I can do everything you did in a better way with a better language, technology, whatever that might be true but that doesn't work either so being humble because in your ideas, concept solution, whatever, it helps a lot to build respect and trust from the other folks working on the open source project that's something I try to apply for the last years doing open source if you don't try to be a jerk rewriting everybody's code for whatever reasons, it helps a lot like I said not only the PTA I wrote a blog post a few weeks ago and that's not for people wanting to contribute to open site and open source that's for people doing open source and I saw a lot of bad practices on the other side too it's not always people trying to contribute terrible things sometimes you can also help to contribute to the project by having a different behavior and to be more open minded or things like that so I won't talk about that now but if you want to take a look at that you might learn a few things and that's it we take question if you have time yes we have question we have 5 minutes if you have any question guys shoot, I don't know if you have a mic or please use mic otherwise we cannot record I'm from Red Hat also and I work with the upstream guys also but I understand the concept get an idea, get a business logic for it get some motivation to do the idea but how do you communicate with those guys with the upstream developers IRC mails, how long does it take when you get an idea and you get someone interested in it it's very depend on the community first so you have community that are going some are running IRC meeting for example some are not I said need to observe and to see first of the communication there are some communities that like to meet face to face very often and so that might be a good idea to join at this point there are some like telemetry, we don't do that a lot we don't run IRC meetings anymore we are on IRC a lot of projects, I think all of the open site projects are on IRC we use a lot the mailing list because it's asynchronous it's easy, you can reply when you want you can think about what you are going to reply which is different on IRC it's pretty easy to see that you just google it you run through the open site where you have a page about our project that might be different from Nova but that's always documented somewhere worst thing you can just find a developer worst thing what I do outside of open site you just do git log and you check the git log and who contributed and you sort of mail I'm sorry, where are you guys hanging out and how can I reach you is there a mailing list or something and they would say yes or no we only use GitHub or whatever and it's as long as you stay humble and just asking nice questions and doing your homework everything is cool and you're just building relationship and trust sorry what I can suggest it was easy for me because we are part of OPNFB which what I want to say that it gave us a recognizable entity so means we were having meetings at the beginning maybe not all of us had a very good idea how open stack works but as it gave us an identifiable entity I mean an address or an identity we could invite people to our meetings and that was a very direct communication so invite people means that's a novel core developer or congress core developers and they could like we explained our use cases straightforward speaking and when they agreed they actually helped us they themselves became our kind of ambassador they wrote blogs that so far the way we are doing it it seemed that there are other compelling use cases when you explain the use case very well because if it's a rice use case the people generally will not deny it so that's something we did we directly invite people to our meetings I also have to comment over that so if you propose some new features it might take more than one year but sometimes less than one month or even one week it really depends on what feature is or how many supporters are around their features and it's really hard to say but one thing I want to say is just be honest or be good to communicate with the developers and try to explain clearly and help their work it's really nice to make a good connection for earning trust from him or her that's it Any more questions? Thank you


Joe for jaspy's case breaks calm coming at you with jaspy's 11 box hockey is back And you can see the camera right there Nixon get a head start on this Hockey is back random team mixer nice 11 box mixer right there featuring that mcdavid featuring these boxes right here And this mcdavid right here. So at the end of the break will re-randomize your names and the name on top It's gonna get this bgs 95 mcdavid nine fives all around corners and nine What did you say you think this is gonna go for? Over 750 right now and the season just came back. All right, so there you go But first let's do the break You can get some nice stuff you can get some mcdavid out of here during the break too So there are the names right there there the teams all 31 teams are in let's roll it Let's randomize it three and a two five times for each list one two three Four and five when do when can we start putting this Seattle Kraken in this next season? Kyle cook down to Chris parents Yeah, that's the real name the Seattle Kraken I want I wanted sockeyes Yeah in Puget Sound they're they're all over the place Yeah, they're there. Yeah deep inside Puget Sound The first the first peoples Native Americans would tell tale of the Kraken Just gobbling up Vessels out there shipping vessels out there. It's true story Kyle with the savers rich with the hurricanes Matt with the senator Stephen K with the lightning Jacob with the flyers William with the abs Jason with the Golden Knight Steve with the Canucks Amber last spot mojo penguins Jacob with the coyotes amber with the blues in the Panthers Jason with the Bruins Mike McCarthy with the ducks Adam with the Leafs amber with the Kings John with the Canadians Adam with the Islanders roar you got the blue jackets patched with the pretz and the devils Matt with the Jets Mike with the Blackhawks Barry with the Oilers Steve with the flames John with the capitals Steve with the sharks William with the stars Mark with the red wings Justin with the wild Chris parent with the Rangers, so there you go I'm gonna leave the video running while Nick opens up those packs La does have a rich history of Kings Lot a lot of Kings here The King of West Hollywood The King of the South Bay Rose Parade King The King of Pop a lot more Kings than Kraken's Although there's some Kraken's up there So many ducks in Anaheim and Duke's of Melrose nice nice poll William. Yeah, Duke's of Melrose Royal lot of royalty here stars were sent stars were senators by the way Williams offering senators Carolina and Interested in the devils senator's Jets lightning up for trade Pass on Carolina King James is here Kings for blue jackets flyers for trade King Kong was made in Hollywood so many Kings here That's in New York Give us that give us that Bailey King of the Jungle All right, no one's trading right all right trade window going once trade window going With this heat wave Coyotes up for trade I think you got a crack at a 70 67 I got down to 60 67. Yeah Do we need to turn on the second one? Oh, it might be that kind of day Look like Peter Londo in a second Kairus or flyers, otherwise we're gonna roll All right, we should roll TWC trade window close let's print and rip All right, we got the sports card investor spot coming up Probably by the end of this break to be honest with you Maybe a little bit might have some time, but we need to set up for it and get prepared for it and Get the makeup makeup girl in here All right, TWC trade window closed. Let's print. Let's rip. Good luck everybody first of the month and Don't worry, even if you have a bad break. Just keep this in mind. You can win that Conor McDavid Young guns BGS 95. All right. What's this? I'm gonna start with This upper deck hockey product series one 10 I don't know who I'm looking for in this particular year I mean, I guess any young guns card is strong Is this current year? Yeah Yeah, cool photography here Guess we'll have to do left right randomizers for that at the end along with any other left rights Young gun Carlson Coolman. So the Nico Sturm goes to the Minnesota wild It'll be for Justin and the young guns Carlson Coolman will go to the Boston Bruins Jason wainer with that one.  We're just gonna breeze through these and We like this guy, right? Kale Opiechee glossy That's for the abs. That'll be for William. There you go, William. We're still one There's Jack Hughes cock-a-co I think those guys are pretty good. I think my hockey knowledge very limited folks, but But I think these guys are pretty good No worries, William. Thanks for getting in Well, Jason will have another hockey mixer tomorrow. Nice and probably a case of Opiechee Clapham hockey Oh, so hockey fans. There you go.  Do we have any fun hockey scores? Blackhawks beat the Oilers 6-4. That's like a baseball score Hurricanes 3-2 over the Rangers He better I mean it's good for the hobby, right What did Conor McDavid do? Is he a bum? No, he had a goal and three assists. It's a pretty good day. All right, there's the Yakov Trinen Young guns for Nashville Another one for Patrick. I think Oilers have a shot at the number one pick Do they really Oilers might have the number one pig that'd be crazy Rory, you have the uh blue jackets Nothing yet. I mean a couple maybe a young guns card or something like that, but we got 90s sign of the times Shane Corson I don't remember Shane Corson. Do you remember Shane Corson? I don't remember Shane Corson, but he's for the Montreal Canadiens Habs John McCall with the Canadiens I think the blue jackets are pretty great Yeah, Pierre-Luc Dubois in there. Who's that goalkeeper that they really like? Goalkeeper, goalie, whatever they call them in hockey 467 out of 999, Nathan Bastion for the New Jersey Devils Yeah, we're not on the pitch. We're on the ice. That's right Merz Lincoln's yeah, Elvis Merz Lincoln's don't sleep on that guy You know these are limited to Carrasco right here.   So What do they know about hockey? Yeah, and they're in their region and they're sure as hell not going to support the Chicago Blackhawks Right Milwaukee and Chicago.  That'll be for Barry Roberts That's right to share Alexander to share. You can't forget about him There's Brock Besson I want to say mark. I want to say mark to share every time to Former Rangers first baseman Yankees first baseman for a long time. Did he play for the Angels too? Yes He was he had like a seven years fan where he was just a monster. They really had for a year Monster series one hobby edition. All right Yeah, so market media market wise Rory says they're stuck in that Detroit Chicago media market So, yeah, I learned Not going to get a extra hockey team anytime soon Cody Glass Tex Aya, is that how you say it? We need we need a we need a hockey media guy here young guns Carson Torrenski flyers Uh, jake of johnson with Philadelphia. This is going faster than we thought Okay, um I feel like william topping the same one so dustin by flean I think it's by fuggling. It's not by fuggling. That's what I want to say I want to say by fuggling, but it's by flean No, then jason's just trolling you and we got shea webber It's Tex Ea ea tex ea like in the game ea. No, they can't be tex ea No Wow, that's what my tower is saying tex ea like the letters Stop come on tex ea No, you're Tex ea tex ea. Yeah Unbelievable then we might as well call this guy shea webber What does the world come to they should they should just make it Like like french. Well, we're tell tell him that we're in america premiere Wayne gratsky not autograph not Quinn hues this is a good hues, right? We like huses the hues brothers Vancouver that'll be for steve birch Yeah, I might as well just go by joey a from now on rich Is he the better hues? Do we like quin hues better than better than jackson hues? Is he jackson? I don't know if his name's jackson. John Hughes. Maybe it goes by jack by short Jack for short Oh, is it bufflin? Need to break more hockey Carter I know this guy. I mean this guy's patrick wall, but Some hockey names. I know there's dominant kubalic who mike tower was saying Scored like a million points today For the chicago blackhawks mike mccarthy. I think mike mccarthy's in chicago. He likes the blackhawks, right? And carter goes to the tamba bay lightning which will go to steven k Young guns josh brown panthers That goes to amber and the florida panthers Let's go with let's go with this right here opc platinum With nat macKinnon rainbow On the back there. Do we like nat macKinnon? Do we like marquis rookies? I think so Hockey is a lot like basketball where a lot of these parallels and refractors and stuff could Could go for a lot There's braden point white ice. No arctic freeze to 99 I guess there's a lot more of those rookie marquis rookies. I thought And we got mero heiskanen violet pixels To 399 they did that song blister in the sun the violet pixels That's the sunset parallel pretty nice. I was trying to get to this gold right here. Let's see that pierre loup de bois 3 out of 50 seismic gold Eric branch and marquis rookies refractor quin hues again alex ovechkin matt pink lot happening here jack hues And an autograph rem pittlick for the national predators patrick Before you angrily comment in the youtube comments. I know it's violent fems That was the joke For the people who don't like jokes out there Of which there are many believe it or not ladies and gentlemen not you guys But you know who you are all right the old marquis rookies the the rec the recruit de renom We are big time marthur Gonna get even bigger time With uh with sports card investor.com. That is for show They're gonna take us to the tippy top The top of the pops top of the pops Will be the hostesses with the mostesses Am I just leaving all of these marquis rookies is that what we're doing? Is that we do we have time for this? Are you guys any good? I'm just a caveman Your world frightens and confuses me All right, this is that one wild acetate brock synergy Pretty fun Uh carlson coolman to 999 Joelle le esbrance to 399 Carl gunström to 999 Nate mckinnon to 899 No rich you won't you're gonna you're stuck with this guy. Come on The second that happened no one ever want to break with me again. They'll be like bring her back When's she coming back joe roman yosie? 999 alexander Uh texas Hey, thanks arthur. Yeah in all seriousness If it wasn't for A lot of you. I mean like mike tower has been here around for a while. You have arthur rich schmidt A lot of people have been around for a while have supported us Can't get to where we are now without you. So thank you All joking aside nico stern It's no joke zone folks Which is a joke to 399 nick sasuki Tex EA come on All right, I just have to listen to it a couple times someone bring a pull up the audio Do I go to the hockey hockey network and maybe they'll say his name I need a hockey pronunciation guide next to me. What do we have here? We've got And the trill trill it I guess We've got taro herosie for the detroit redwinks Mark l with that one wait to rory in the milwaki market Who do hockey fans support? Not the blackhawks, right? What what what team do they lean towards? Do they go minnesota? I feel like there's so many like city rivalries there that it's hard to support those Oh, it's just everyone. It's just all over the place Joey to core to 399 We've got ryan paling to 499 Connor mcdavid Rory saying wild or nashville in your neck of the woods on interesting We've got a tyler sagin Sagan sagin Sadeen sagin For dalis that'll be for william Oh, I see that's interesting. You So rory's saying that he he's obviously in milwaki. He They have an al to a hl team. That's a national feeder. So hence the milwaki admirals hence the affiliation the love for the National predators interesting kody glass autograph golden knights That will be for vegas. That's gonna go to jason wainer That's the 249. I know that one that one's shy flee. I can do that There's brandon gig knock It's kind of hard to see the red against the red, but that is kind of catching the light. There we go out of 799 There's murs lingkins right there He could have goosef to 799 And jack eichel for the buffalo sabers ryan is confused You bought a spot in the salo break. You have no idea when it starts or what to do You just buy a spot blind. We need more people like ryan To just just throw money at us I appreciate that ryan Big thanks to ryan It'll break when it sells out Unless there's other stuff before it on the schedule But yeah, the details of the break itself are in the item description So there's nothing really you have to do Once you buy a spot We try to keep this as Yeah as least amount of work as possible once you buy something There's no other extra action you need to do Except for wait for it to fill up and then happen john mccall with the caps Out of 999. We've got pierre engvall. It's kind of hard to read against that pattern there. There's morgan frost 17 out of 299 Flyers jake of johnson and our autograph Is to 399 and that is Oh rem pitlick Rapper's already up 10 nothing on the lakers eight minutes up from the first. Come on lakers All right, that's for natural that'll be for patrick. That's to 499 Shooted ad No bucket zero points It's unbelievable. Are we done here? When is chronicles for when it sells out andre? At a 249 carry price alexander nielander to 199 and christian fisher to 299 That is for He is a coyote looks like there you go premiere rookie auto patch It was already sold out on ig If you're looking for ig that's on a different channel Mike mccarthy. I'm sorry jake up with the coyotes We got premiere swatches connor sherry Shea re 36 out of 99 penguins amber So ig and the website is on a different channel What are you saying that andre? We have nothing to do with ig on this channel There's luke as wallmark 31 out of 36 three-color patch for the carolina hurricanes rich schmid if vegni schvegnikov for the detroit redwings I'm not very smart andre. You got to make yourself.  There you go. Do I have a little box here for you? We've got panini prime There's gabriel lanskog two out of ten We've got prime signatures john lecler for the flyers to 99 that'll be for Amber no, sorry amber Jacob you guys are right next to each other We've got triple relic prime trios. These are all Oilers yes ryan newton hopkins ryan jones and philip cornet to 100 Barry roberts with edmonton showcase swatches see the you can see the player kind of kind of hard to see But there's the player is shadowed right in there, which is a kind of a cool design. It probably looks better in person Even though we have pretty good production quality here six out of 25 showcase swatches. That's paul bisonette quad relic and autograph akim alu four out of 50 Lakers are finally scoring points good That is a calgary flame yoga flame that goes to steve birch And we got robber mayor For the montreal canadian 69 nice out of 99 jersey and autograph In that dominion style, which is pretty cool john mccall with montreal and tukarask Is your it's another dominion card right there. Oh, yeah, this has that dominion pack inside. I think if I remember correctly ruins jason with boston ruins and this last one is upper deck black upper deck ice upper deck upper deck black from 1819 All right there. So there's michael del caulier michael del caul For the new york islanders adam cuperman We got that's an autograph right there if you look carefully jordan caru st. louis blues I guess that's why they call it the blues amber bishop with that one There's andres schvennikov rookie jersey For the carolina hurricanes rock you like a hurricane rich with carolina There you go And michael res musin shadow box rookies Because i'm a shadow boxer baby I don't know where Remember that fiona applesong was a good song 288 out of 298 Detroit redwings And that's it folks boom, but wait there's more Yeah, she lives in venice She just released a new record which is actually kind of good Weird but good But that's that's that's her right all right. So let's do some randomizing here Okay, so first we got to do that left right randomizer for from those series one cards So we'll do left right randomizers and then everybody has a shot at that connor mc david. I know that guy That guy's pretty good Euler scored four four goals today mc david had a goal and three assists so Pretty involved in a losing effort, but pretty involved four or two six times for each list one two three four five and six After six times right side we'll get any of those left right cards. I think there was another 10 series one break that had some left right cards in there. So right side teams will get those and The moment you've been waiting for four and two six times for the teams one two three four five And sixth and final time for the names there it is right there six times six times Big thanks everybody who gave this a shot. Okay, first of all from two to 31. Thank you Appreciate you getting in and congrats to amber bishop last spot mojo There it is centering edges surface of nine five Corners are a nine for a bgs nine five connor mc david young guns Which I think is just under a thousand dollars in value at the at the moment. Maybe 750 ish 7 to 800 bucks somewhere around there So pretty nice stuff and there you go and there you have it joe for jasky's case breaks.com I'll see you next. That's right rory if you got if you and rory made that trade for the blue jackets That actually would have been rory. Oh wow So we we can't think that way that butterfly effect stuff will will drive us crazy. All right, joe for jasky's case breaks.com I'll see you next time for the next break. Bye. Bye


This is Think Tech Hawaii, Community Matters here. Hello, and welcome to Think Tech Hawaii, and it never got quiet. This is a half-hour program that explores the Hawaiian connection with the Vietnam War. I'm your host, Vic Kraft. The Vietnam War began over a half-century ago when Congress passed the Gulf of Tonkin Resolution, giving then-president Johnson extraordinary powers in dealing with the conflict in Southeast Asia. There were over three million service members deployed to Southeast Asia. More than 58,000 were killed. Many people today either do not know about the war or have a vague recollection of it. As time goes on, more veterans of that war will pass away, and the experiences and the wisdom these people gained will be lost forever. This program is an attempt to capture those experiences so that we may benefit from them. Wars are fought by individuals. The grand strategies and political goals become meaningless to those who World War II cartoonist Bill Mullen termed the benevolent and protective brotherhood of them what has been shot at. The domino theory is irrelevant when hot lit is flying past your head. The upcoming Ken Burns documentary on the Vietnam War is already stirring up controversy. It is not the intention of this program to explore arguments for or against the war. It is simply a place where those from Hawaii who participated in that conflict can relate their experiences and feelings and their lives after the war. We named this program It Never Got Quiet. As most of us from the time we arrived in Vietnam to the time we left were never too far from the sounds of war. Some of us have never truly become rid of those sounds even today. Although most of the people in what was called in country were exposed to hostile fire, many filled supporting roles from clerks, cooks, mechanics, medical and logistics personnel, and other occupations that did not pull triggers. In a World War I American Infantry Division there were but a handful of people in the support function by comparison to the number of those who did the actual fighting. By the time the Vietnam conflict rolled around the complexity of war had driven the number of personnel in support functions to the point where just a little over one-third of a combat infantry division were in combat arts. Many studies continue to be done but some do not address the larger picture wherein all functions support the grunt or infantrymen. That means all these organizations be they in the same armed service or combination of services. The question then becomes is the technician responsible for maintaining a piece of electronics just as critical to the fighting ability of an organization? The answer would most certainly be yes. Joint operations include members from different branches of the armed forces. A good example of this was the war the fought in the Mekong Delta. A mobile riverine force or MRF which subsequently became known as just the riverine or a more colloquial terms the brown water navy was a joint force of U.S. Navy and U.S. Army personnel that patrolled the numerous rivers and tributaries that make up the Mekong Delta. The Delta is an area of over 15,600 square miles or almost four times the size of the Big Island. To patrol such a vast area required coordination and communications. Troops were transported throughout the region by a wide variety of naval vessels some not so conventional. These people needed to be fed extracted supplied with ammunition and when necessary evacuated evacuation of the wounded and the dead. Our guest today is Shad Kane. Shad enlisted in the U.S. Navy in 1966. He was trained to be a radar repair technician and was assigned to the cruiser USS St. Paul. He later volunteered to go in country as a member of the riverine. After just charge from the neighboring Shad served for 34 years in the Honolulu police department. Shad is an author and the founder of Kalea Loa Heritage Park in Kapolei. Loa ha, Shad. Welcome. Aloha. What did you do prior to going into the military? I mean you must have had some something in mind before the Vietnam conflict grabbed you. Well actually I was born right here in November first of all and a place called Pro City Peninsula in 1945. At that time the Pro City Peninsula was actually Navy I mean was a civilian property. Then in uniform my whole life I went to a Catholic grade school and graduated from Command Mayor and then subsequent to that went to Utah State spent a couple years at Utah State and at that time I was in Air Force Hour with the UC. I didn't finish school mainly because at that time I was kind of somewhat disappointed in myself and the fact that I was really kind of hoping for a career in the military and so I was part of the Utah State's Air Force Hour with the UC and before you go into your junior year you got to declare whether you want to go into the pilots program or the navigators program but I had my heart set on being a pilot and in order to get into that program we had to go to the University of Utah in Salt Lake City and take a test in a simulated aircraft and I hate saying it but I didn't do too well in that. I became very disappointed you know so I actually left school and returned home and at that time my brother was actually in the Navy so during the time I was home I decided to join the Navy and in 1966 October of 1966 I went to Boot Camp in San Diego and subsequent to that my whole first year was I attended different Navy schools so after Boot Camp I spent some time in San Diego's basic electricity school and then I had declared to become a radar then so I went to Treasure Island which is an island in San Francisco Bay where I went to the Navy's radar A school so I spent that whole first year going to going to school and subsequent to getting out of radar A school I was assigned to the St. Paul Heavy Cruiser and so two years 67-68 I spent two cruises on the St. Paul and we were involved in naval gunfire support in the area of the DMZ between South and North Vietnam so and we were actually exposed to fire during that time as a matter of fact that first year we got hit on a on a port bow where we ended up having to go back to Subic but in those waters I became extremely impressed with the river boats because oftentimes we would meet with the PCFs which are slightly larger, much larger than PVRs, river patrol boats so I became very impressed with the sailors working on those uh working on those boats so it was in 68 where I decided to leave the St. Paul and join those uh those sailors who were working at the Brownwater Navy so that's how it all started I came back to San Diego I went to survival school in San Diego Coronado Island and then my first assignment was to participate or assign to the commander river patrol for till five and we coordinated communications between the river boats and the command structure associated with the naval command structure within Ben Luc. Ben Luc is about 90 miles south of the city so my first assignment was at Ben Luc in South Vietnam. Excuse me you went further north I believe up the but what I have to explain to people is the vast area that had to be patrol okay as I mentioned four times the size of the big island it's a huge area the number of people that you had the number of assets that needed to be controlled I think you mentioned to me the accidental incursions into Cambodia and uh river patrol for till of five coordinated communications out of Ben Luc. Ben Luc is like I said about 90 miles south of Saigon but we coordinated the activities and communications with several river divisions that were all on the Van Cotay River there's actually two rivers that's actually the intersect just south of where we were located the Van Cotay and Van Codong rivers those two rivers originate in Cambodia in the area that is referred to as the Parrots Beak so much of the time I would have to say that most of our work was even for the river boats was kind of boring with respect to small periods where it became extremely exciting okay so there were several Navy bases along the the Van Cotay River where we monitored communications with the the river boats okay let me be really clear it's it's not just PBAS or river boats uh amongst the boats that that we had assigned to our command were uh what we referred to as zipples which were flamethrowing boats there were monitors which uh were a boats that had a one or five howitzer mounted on them and that we had tangle boats and these tangle boats uh would transport the draftees and Navy seals and we would set them up in ambush in different places along the river system river system along the Van Cotay River for example it was not just simply patrolling the rivers that oftentimes that involved just checking papers on sampans and making sure that these were friendly sampans and not sampans that were transporting weapons down south because this is a period in time 67-68 where the VC were pretty far south already and they had integrated into different communities and villages along the Van Cotay and Van Codong River and oftentimes they made their presence known at night so during the day they would integrate into the villages and the villagers that were very concerned about making their presence known because they didn't want to have a difficult situation with the VC so oftentimes we did not know a whole lot about which respect to where these people were so part of our job was not just communicating but to assist with insertion of draftees and Navy seals along different areas along the river system and oftentimes we would identify three fire zones and no fire zones so oftentimes the no fire zones were places where civilians had lived the big problem for our boats is that oftentimes at these VCs we would receive fire more from no fire zones than from free fire zones and this was the situation up when you go further north along the Van Cotay River so subsequent to six months at Ben Luck I was reassigned to Ben Kale so Ben Kale is along the the Van Cotay River and it's about 20 clicks 20 miles south of the Cambodian border and it was during this period 67-68 where we were experiencing a lot of firefights with respect to that that area along the Cambodian border so on one and in our boats oftentimes would would try to stay within South Vietnam but there's no signs so there was one situation and I hate saying this but it did probably happen often but on one occasion it was discovered that we actually went into Cambodia and that we were made aware that our boats were in Cambodia so anyway I think that was actually a national lose way back at that time so that in that period of time I was assigned to the NLC staff actually in Tainin province so Tainin province butts right up against the Cambodian border so that was extremely hot area not just along the Van Cotay River but also on land so I'm not sure if our listeners are familiar with the monkey mountain so monkey mountain is actually in Tainin province but it's a it's a mountain that was had a lot of VC tunnels not just residents but operations within the monkey mountain so so I spent my first half of that that year in bedlock can we come back to that in a minute because we need to take a break here for a couple of messages and we'll be right back with Shad Connie this is Think Tech Hawaii raising public awareness I'm Helen Dora Hayden the host of Voice of the Veteran seen here live every Thursday afternoon at 1 p.m on Think Tech Hawaii as a fellow veteran and veteran's advocate with over 23 years experience serving veterans active duty and family members I hope to educate everyone on benefits and accessibility services by inviting professionals in the field to appear on the show in addition I hope to plan on inviting guest veterans to talk about their concerns and possibly offer solutions as we navigate and work together through issues we can all benefit please join me every Thursday at 1 p.m for the Voice of the Veteran Aloha I'm good I'm good I'm good but I have a story and I don't know where to start I feel alone in the crowd I can't sleep I feel overwhelmed I don't even know who I am anymore I still have nightmares I can't live like this anymore I'm really not so good but are you ready to listen you'd be to tell me 15 minutes with bye already well we're with Shad Connie and we're talking about his experiences in the Mekong Delta during the Vietnam War you mentioned something earlier about the the troops you said the draftees there is a huge age difference even when you're 19 and 23 you had mentioned that most of the guys within the riverine were in their early 20s to late 20s yeah most of us assigned to the river divisions we're all in for the most part we're all in our 20s so we're most of us were like 22, 23, 24, even older than that so most of us have already been in the Navy for a while but we we worked often with draftees and you know what really surprised me about the draftees at that time most of them were teenagers at least to us they looked for the most popular kids so we were kind of somewhat so as sailors you got to understand we're sailors look we were just surprised that there were so many young kids drafted at that time that we were actually taking and setting up in ambush positions at night and the striking thing to us is that it was very obvious that these young guys were kind of really most of them looked like they were all underweight and the ones that we worked with because we were in a very hot area most of them had actually been in vietnam for a while so they've experienced firefights those that that were assigned to us in our particular area so they were somewhat uh familiar with getting involved in firefights so it was very obvious to me that the fighting kind of took their toll on these young men just by looking at them and having a simple conversation with them it was almost difficult to kind of get a sense that they're they look like they were somewhere else if you can understand what I'm saying when you're having a conversation with somebody which in our minds is really important stuff because we're taking these guys and setting up in ambush the next that night to set them up it seems like almost most of them that I had a personal conversation with over lunch they seem almost in a daze and like uh they were they were they don't feel anything they were just like simple machines just responding to orders and duties and what they got to do and just do them so we're kind of very that's not just me it's even the sailors that that work side by side with they all kind of had that we all kind of fell bad for you know so uh we're in boats we're on the base so we feel safe but we're taking these young guys up along the river banks and with our zippers we burn the foliage to clear when we open fire with our fifties arm to make sure there's no enemies in that area but then we have to to drop them off and oftentimes we're dropping them off not on land oftentimes it's really hard to tell how deep the water is so oftentimes we're actually dropping these young draftees in deep water and we're watching them struggle in the water and it it really uh breaks your heart to see us putting in them these young kids in that kind of situation so that's the kind of stuff I'll never forget I'll just never forget what we did our effort was to help but oftentimes uh when you look at the specific times and circumstances under which we were involved in it's almost difficult for us to feel good about what we were doing so it's a tough part of the Vietnam War you said memories I know that you have a marvelous sense of service you had to have had in order to volunteer to go to the river but you carried it on after you got out of the Navy and actually ended up at the Honolulu police department spending 34 years there do you reflect upon that time as being similar to being in combat or are your experiences in combat have any relation to your time in the HPD it does and it's more than just that I think it's our generation that we came from there's a sense of commitment and making contributions uh and that's what life is all about you know we're defined by the contributions and sacrifices we make that's who we are and as I said I spent my whole life in uniform all the way from kindergarten I was in uniform so that sense of service I think is this kind of this it's a part of you after a while and that's how I hate talking about myself but I think that's kind of how I define myself you know whenever I get to the point where I'm about to leave this world I want to be able to look back and feel good some things I did and I don't think I'm the only person I'm sure a lot of people who do volunteer service volunteer work in similar kinds of projects to the Kalei Law Heritage Park I think they all they all develop that kind of sense of sacrifice and contributions not so much sacrifice but doing things for other people the Heritage Park is that kind of place the Heritage Park is for future generations to understand what life was like in the past so I think everyone our generation kind of pretty much feel the same way if I can bring that up just to hold this up Shad wrote this book it's called uh Cultural Kapolei and basically you did an awful lot of research on the history of the first Polynesians that came into that area down by the old barber's point and if you haven't already folks take advantage of it these are great docent you'll take you around the park it's fascinating history it's fascinating heritage for all of us you left uniform but you still have a sense of duty to provide the community with a link to the past but as you said a direction to the future and I think that's what we wanted to do when we were in service was we felt that we were doing our duty and helping the country helping the community and whereas you took it to the next step and you actually put a uniform on to serve and to protect I want to thank you for that by the way but uh yeah I admire people who at least recognize that in themselves and I want to thank you again for that tell us a little about the park though I mean what caused you to get involved with that I'll try to make this roof as I actually grew up to assimilate into the western world it wasn't until later on I was through my grandfather my grandfather was a blacksmith on the big island Portuguese ancestry so there was always cowboy stuff around so I as I grew up I actually got more involved in cowboy stuff I had horses, rode horses, I did some roping and all those kinds of things I read a lot about the Indian culture then there are plains Indians the northern plains the the Shia and the Santisuit one day my wife and I went on a western tour and we uh we flew to uh Spokane I mean we flew to Seattle rented a car drove to Spokane drove across the Coraline Pass stopping ground to the next first Indians into Montana Boseman to Big Horn Memorial we were all the way Wyoming all the way to Pahosapa to get the black hills part of that was because of its sacred nature to the northern plains Indians at that time I wanted to find a place where they were actually making Indian crafts because I was already involved in making Indian feather work and we found this place called Prairie's Edge and that very interesting my wife and I enjoyed looking at all the Indian stuff that was purchased from Native American Indians but I accidentally bumped into an old guy and I took a look at him I suddenly realized I was looking at my first real Indian because most of the Indians I know are half Hawaiian, part Cherokee, half of Hawaii, part Caucasian, part Cherokee or part Indian so I never really saw a real Indian on that day uh I was stunned by standing next to this guy had to be in his 80s long white hair cowboy clothes big cowboy buckle cowboy hat his face had so many wrinkles I don't think I ever saw another man with that many wrinkles in his face a conversation went like this and that's how it all started we started talking about Indian culture we started talking about all the battles between the uh the northern plains with the seven cavalry and it came down to this defining moment he asked me what tribe I belong to I hesitated and I said I was Hawaiian where I must have said that hundreds of times before that day on that particular day I actually heard me say it I don't know if it makes sense to you or any of you listeners but I actually heard me say it the next thing he said is you know you come from so far away and you know my culture more than my children and my grandchildren you know what I heard him say he was talking about me so when I came back home I gave up all the Indian stuff I had I quit doing cowboy things I moved I rented ten acres of the Campbell estate and I started doing trail riding and it started with that it started with all the many discoveries I made and that ancient Hawaiian past and it ended with us working at the Kalei Little Heritage Park and restoring a cultural landscape and it's a marvelous work that's in progress uh you've had uh university people come down there botanists biologists and archaeologists and actually showing how large the community was and what it did and how it survived but there's there are lessons there for us it's really a partnership I don't want to make you seem like it's just us who's involved in the heritage park it's a 501c 3 private nonprofit the Kalei Little Heritage and Legacy Foundation and that uh we we got a right of entry back in 2010 the land was actually conveyed from the Navy to the state in 2010 and then we got a right of entry uh back at that time and then in 2010 we got the lease I mean I'm sorry of 2015 we got the lease we have a 501c tree and we have an eight member board so it it kind of uh all started with that but however I don't want your list is getting the impression it's just us the success of the heritage park has been the result of the many partnerships that we've established it's a heritage park so the idea is not to it's it's not meant to change so it's meant to restore what once was so we work in partnership for example with the University of Hawaii, Manoa, West O'ahu, Leroy with respect to their the botany department so they help identify the native plants and once thrived in that area so we it's an effort to restore not not preservation of the cultural landscape to restore that biological resources that once did this one example of many that's great like to thank you Shad for being on the program we would love to have some feedback we were also looking for people to interview if you have some comments or would like to appear on the program please send us an email at 808 vietnamvet at gmail.com I would like to thank the staff here at Think Tech Hawaii for all their support and assistance and truly without them there would never be and never got quiet if you'd like to know more about the information on Kalea Loa Heritage Park please go to their website at H-T-T-P-W-W-K-H-L-Foundation.org Mahalo