There we go. All set. So, hi everybody. Welcome everybody. So today is August 25th. This is the district advisory board meeting of 2021 of August 25th. So, I, let's start with the agenda. We have a very big agenda. So I want to start and keep, let's try to keep it on track. The first item on the agenda is to approve the meetings of the meet, the last two meetings of 811 and 818. So let's first discuss. Tracy, you have the hands raised. No, go ahead. Sorry, you can speak first. I just had some comments on the minutes. Okay. So let's start with the August 11, 2025. Does anybody have a comment? I know Tracy has. Yeah, my comments were just general about all the both sets of minutes for both the 11th and the 18th is that, and then we talked about this a little bit at the last meeting, right that the minutes are the official record of what happens at the meeting. And so, in that vein, I think it's important to note, instead of just kind of having a bullet item of like different things that were talked about, and brought up, I think it is important, particularly if there's decisions that are being made or people have different opinions to include like who said what at the meeting a little bit. Because, and we did talk about right last time, and maybe, you know, Sue or somebody in the town manager's office would have more information on this but even though the meetings are recorded and full. Like those aren't considered the official record of the meeting, the minutes are considered the official record and we don't know for example if those videos will always be available. But it's really helpful, like if we go back to the way the, you know, minutes were written up for the 2011 district team advisory board just to be able to see, you know, what was just, I mean, I think, I think, Joseph you've done a great job I'm really happy that somebody's taking those minutes, and that it's not me thank you very much. But just like in terms of the record, just to, you know, maybe, you know, just to kind of recap, like the different points of views that were expressed or something. And it might even help, you know, in terms of, as we're doing our meetings when different topics come up it's like perhaps for each given, you know a minute or two to just kind of give our points of view. So, just to keep track of things that way. Peggy. Um, yeah just had a couple of specific things on page two in the second bullet point. Where's page to be on the screen. Yeah, yeah, drafts. Yeah, it looks different from what I was. Okay, well, whatever. I understand, I know. Okay. Okay, well anyway for the vacancies, I think we should be really clear. That's part that's item B that there are two vacancy like I just like to rewrite that to say there are two vacancies, either one each from District four and District five or two from District five because I want the public to really understand who's eligible to be on this. Okay, that's all. Okay, thanks.  Yeah, I'm muted. I just had a quick comment on that. Peggy is that at the council meeting on Monday that the council approved adding somebody to the committee for precinct for, I mean for District four. Craig Meadows. Oh, and, and he's, and he's been CC'd since then on like the meeting. But for the record, no, of course, yeah, absolutely. That's great. Great news. That was just a point of information. Thanks. Yes. So, how do you want to proceed right now do you want to approve the minutes as they are now. And for future meetings to ask that they are a complete or we wait to approve the meetings until they have a little bit more of material inside. I deferred them. I think we should just approve them and move on. Okay. I mean, so one thing is when we met on the 11th that like that was before the census data was released and so on right so we were just working with preliminary date it was only just our second meeting. I would be fine approving those minutes as is. And just like with, I just had a very minor comment on them. But just because I think like I started on the 18th where we're going to, we're starting to get into more substantive conversations and things. So I think it would be helpful if they're, and I did see some points for clarification. Okay. In the meetings on the 18th. Okay. So I'm, I move here in that to approve the minutes on the 11th. And then we talk about the ones on the 18th. So I just before we vote, I just wanted to just clarify for Joseph that that when people aren't present at a meeting, you just you just count the votes as like who's present. So like who is for and who's against so I know like on the second page of the minutes it said voted five to zero to two. So that third number is usually for people who are present who abstain, and who don't vote yes or no. So if people aren't present you just don't even keep them in the, you don't even put them in the count. That's just like a point of information. And to approve them pending the changes as such as suggested. Yes. So, somebody needs to second. I can second. Okay. So I'm going to make a roll call. Joseph Gordon. Peggy Shannon. Hi. Tracy is up here. Hi. Hi. So the motion passes so we can talk now about the minutes or the 25th. August 25th. Thank you. Thank you very much. Does anybody have any comments. Tracy just said you had comments somebody else has comments or Peggy. Okay. Let's start with Peggy. Okay. On page two. See was page two. Point B again, I would rewrite that into one sentence. The question of whether the charter needs to be amended if we create more than 10 precincts will be postponed due to Susan. Question. Who's going to be revising these? I have it right here on my screen, but Joseph, are you going to be, are you taking this down and you're going to be re rising it and. Resending the final. I've been taking notes of the revision suggested so I can change them and send them across. Perfect. Okay. Okay, great. Okay.  Sorry. In under the census data section. It says 41,000 it needs to say 40,000. In the third bullet point. And also I this is this is minor but in the second bullet point I would say discussion rather than discussing. Describing discussion. And we adjourn closer to 730 not seven o'clock. Okay. I think we're in a president the meeting. So I wasn't sure what time. We could always announce when we're adjourning. We are adjourning at time, you know, so I think we should. If I forget. Thank you. Remind me if I forget. Tracy, you have more comments. I mean, I, I'd be happy. Again, because this is part of the official record. I agree with the changes that people made so far, but I'd be happy to like work on rewriting the minutes a little bit and, and like making it a little more clear. Like I'll say the point that Peggy brought up about the 40,000, not the 41,000, but even on that same bullet says therefore it's not a necessity to add more precincts. So the thing is that's not really clear, right, that we're so close to 40,000 so I, I would have changed it to say like therefore it's not necessarily required to add more precincts. And just, again, I think with some of this, like I think in our minutes because sort of separate things that are factual, like for example when Mike presents something and says, like these are the facts. There's like, you know, when we're having stuff with opinions, for example, like a fact, you know, towards the end of that section, like the interactive app is now available, like just factual information. And then, you know, where there's more discussion and so I'm like, for example, like on the next page, there's something about it says district three and district five are both important to look at but I mean when I read that bullet and maybe think about like what about the other precincts and, you know, and so on I think that a whole a whole number of them are useful to look at and so on. So just I mean and we've talked a few times like, I mean I really shows it wasn't here that's why I'm happy to help like rewrite the minutes if people feel like that's appropriate and that's okay for me to do, but but like we talked to, you know, we had a number of substantive discussions about, you know, why might people be under counted including like minority populations D. Shabazz brought up about that in some of the apartments because of the layoffs and things that you mass that people and long term furloughs that people actually like weren't in those units and so on. So I would love to capture like a little bit more of that again, particularly because now that we're looking at the 2020 data. So I'd be happy to do that offline because I feel like we have a really full agenda to start to go through the actual data itself. If people are comfortable with that. Okay, so the motion is to postpone this discussion until next meeting and look at the revised version of the. Okay with you Joseph. I mean I really appreciate you doing the minutes for the meeting that you want to add in. It's totally okay with me. This I'm still like getting the hang of this so I appreciate the input. Okay. So we do have to vote on the discussion about postponing. I think so. I don't know if we do you second I second it. Okay. Joseph Gordon. Tracy Sefian. You are muted. Hi, yeah. Okay. Peggy Shannon. Hi. So the motion to postpone the discussion until next time passes. Okay. Now we have public comment. I see that there are more participants. Nice. Excellent. Does anybody want to make a public comment? Raise your hand. Yeah, I wanted to give the other participants a chance to chime in first, but there was a member of the public who came into town hall and on Monday of this week and put in a data request to sue to sue's office. And that person ended up calling me at my desk phone and talked to me for about 45 minutes. I gave them information about how to join this meeting via phone. The person is a is a resident and they do not use the internet. So I provided them with all the information to join that. It was a, they, I took down notes of what they said. So I don't know if this counts as a public comment, but I'm just going to read it. The person has worked on the census in the past and they want to encourage this committee to reach out to representatives to gather housing unit numbers. As part of this data set. I informed them that that information was not released as part of this census data release it was purely population count and population stats by race. And, but they, they said that previous work in the past and previous senses is senses. They found a lot of discrepancies and amours with the housing unit numbers. So they went wanted to encourage the committee to reach out to appropriate authorities to make sure that we gather that data so they didn't they didn't join the meeting so I'm kind of speaking on their behalf but I don't know if they wanted me to relay that. Thanks Tommy. I agree, I agree with that I, I, I feel like the town of Amherst must have housing stock, you know, because of the tax base. And so it is, I, for me it would be important information just because we have those of the apartments that have the discrepancies you know how many people were there 10 years ago and the number of units stays the same. So I am hoping that there is a way to get, you know, the number of houses so that we have an idea of how many people may not have filled out that paperwork. There's lots of reasons why people don't fill out the paperwork. Right, right, people don't fill out the paperwork on a normal year, you know on a normal census year. And then last year was even worse we saw the numbers even, even lower and it looks like an attendee is raising their hand as well. Okay, can you know that. I'm allowing to talk. Okay. I just wanted to clarify that I'm here to support you in any way that I can, but I'm just very thankful for all of the time that you're putting in to this very important issue and. Thanks. Thank you. Thank you. So you have to be careful when you remote from speaker not to kick you know. Oh, I know I know what I did the last time I'm just lowering her hand. So now I would put her back to. Do I just simply remove. No, if you remove you remove her from the meeting. Yeah, and then you cannot rejoin you just make her a regular attendee again. You right click on her and say change to regular attendee. Let's see here. Well, maybe it's right click remove permission to talk. Yeah, I'm not, I'm not a host. There we go. Okay, thank you. Being very careful there. Yeah, I didn't want to go click on anything yet. Okay, good. Yeah. Okay. So if there are no other public comment, let's go with announcements. I know there's, I have a couple and I know several of you have so who wants to go first. So, okay, I just wanted to confirm that yes, meeting minutes do need to be in hard copy format I looked that up. So that's a that's a confirmation. The I heard I listened to the meeting from last week and I heard one or two of you talk about meeting again like in 2025 if you wanted to. I found that I didn't know where that information came from. So just wanted to let you know that this is a one year term appointment for this committee. And if the town council wanted to reconvene the committee after that year for, for whatever reason, they would be the one to establish it, but this committee ends June of 2022 and then that's it. So I just wanted to let you know that I looked into that. So the charter language, I finally had a chance to speak to the town manager on the charter language section 10.7 E. Okay. And it's what I thought the that section is under the transition section of the charter. So that's over with now. It's completely over with we are now using section 2.1 a, which outlines five districts that says nothing about precincts it just says five districts. And, you know, the 13 counselors. So that's what we're working under. And I think some of the thought in this was, you know how district one right now is precincts one and three, and you elect two counselors. And I think in people's minds and I know my mind went there was that okay there's a there's a counselor to represent precinct one and there's a counselor to represent precinct three but it doesn't automatically fall that way. Sometimes people from precinct three end up getting elected to people and precinct one has nobody covering that. So, if we were to go 15 precincts having district one have three precincts with two counselors, those two counselors are still representing those three precincts. And depending on who ran and who won, they wouldn't be representing those three precincts so I just wanted to throw that out for thought. And then I also wanted to let you know that I've been looking at the open meeting law receipts and the conflict of interest summary receipts and the conflict of interest training receipts and I have a listing of who's missing. So I what I could do is copy this and send it to you. A couple of you are all 100% yay, but a few of you are missing a couple of you are missing all of them and some are missing bits and pieces so I'd be happy to email you all let you know, just want to make sure we're in compliance. Thank you. Okay, you're welcome and that's it for me I'm trying to keep this quick. Okay. Tracy, you have an announcement. Um, no, I mean I just had a comment on shoes, comma, or sort of a question, but go ahead you can do your announcement first. Okay, so I had two announcements one, I sent everybody I mean, an email with the meeting times I know that we had it on the schedule later but I thought. So that we don't start scrambling out that we, we, you will receive a meeting meetings, meeting time so be aware that they were all meeting in different days and a different time so I tried to maximize so that we have form. If on some of these days we are just at the time at the quorum. So if you cannot come please let me know so because we might have to scramble to try to wrangle somebody else to be here. Okay. And I want to appreciate as soon as Mike because it's after your working hours. I'm sorry. But I tried my best and given a different times and this is what we got. Okay. The other announcement is that after consultation with the town council, I was told that we need to submit our report and the maps for them to study and approve by October 13. That's the latest we have to submit. It gives us a, we got a little bit of wiggle room by getting the data early, but that means that before mid October, we have to submit the map. Okay, that's why I was saying we need to meet every week. I got nervous the other day. Okay. So those were my two announcements that I remember. So, can you just speak to the new member of the committee. So we have one new member, Craig Meadows. He got appointed on Monday. I believe that he could not be here today. That's who I did not get any reply from him. I sent him an invitation and send them the link to the material. Hopefully he replied to the survey so hopefully he's going to be joining me. I think many times I think I don't know if he's available before 6pm. On the surveys. Usually it's available after six so that might be, maybe he shows up at six. I don't know. But still for the public, we are still short on one member. Just a question, a clarification is the new, what district is the new member? District four. Okay, thank you. Any other announcements before we go to the comments. Tracy, you had a comment. Oh, just, I know at our last meeting, right. So, when the final, the quote final census data came out from the census fair, which I understand they don't really usually change the number after this point. That we because we were under 40,000 just under 40,000 and not at the 41,000, which was earlier estimated. So, you know, and she wasn't here last time and I'm sure you heard some of the discussion if you watch the meeting but just, you know, we were talking, we spent quite a bit of time talking about whether we could have the 10 continue to have 10 precincts when we're so close which is pretty challenging to meet the 5% and so on. And we know also that Amherst is growing, including the, even just on UMass right that there's the new development right on Mass App it's going to have 600 beds right there. But so one of the things we talked about was the idea of with the five precincts of going to 15. I mean, the five districts point to 15 precincts. Then we were also talking about. And thank you Sue for clarifying that, you know, that was that the section 10.7 is just a transition section so we can increase the number of precincts without having to go through the council for change like that in the charter. But we did also talk about the idea. And maybe this is completely unfeasible is just, we did have some concerns about going from 10 precincts to 15 and that some of their 15 precincts would be small and they would also maybe be like student only some of them and things like that. So, one of the things that came up is like whether it's even feasible to do 12 precincts and the possibility of potentially ever changing the charter should be like say six districts instead of five districts. And I realized that that's beyond the scope of this committee and we probably don't have time and I don't know what that involves but we did have some concerns just about what would happen if it goes all the way to 15. And I just speak to that I did hear that and I did reach out to town council, not co un s SEL council or town attorneys. I haven't heard back yet. I've reached out twice so I do know that. Amendments to charter falls under chapter 43 B section 10, and it's quite involved. And just from reading this it looks like a charter commission must be elected before anything else happens. If that's done then they'd be working in conjunction with the city council and so it sounds like a lengthy process but that's why I wanted to reach out to town council and find out exactly the all the details so when I find out I'll let you know. That's a sweet thing unfortunately. No, but I also think that I mean I know we'll talk about this later in the meeting to but even on the idea of the 10 precincts that arena had in the packet right there is correspondence between the secretary states office, and her and Mike was on some of the emails to and even the idea of the 10 precincts because we're so close that the opinion seemed to be from the secretary of state's office that we'd want to check with town council on that to council SEL right so. But just in terms of being so close like is that even like legally feasible even though it's potentially allowed. I mean, well that's on the agenda the update from the young, the state so let's talk about that when we get there. Yeah, thank you. Any other announcement. Okay, so let's move to our standing item whatever we want to change. Any discussions of any regulations on rules of procedures that we might want to establish on how we conduct the meeting. If anybody wants to bring up something if not Peggy. Yeah, I just wanted to mention. I listened to the town council meeting public comment the other night and you did a great job Tracy Thank you so much. They made it very clear that that the counselors don't comment on the public comments during that period, it's just people making public comments and I think that was a good thing to follow because it allows people to really know they have their three minutes. If there are several people making comments they know they'll be going up soon there won't be other discussion so I'm just going to make an so I should remember to make an announcement that we won't answer. Right. And if we end up having a lot of public commenting. I think having the clock that they do also is really helpful. It's a clock it's a zoom window with a clock in it that allows the person who is commenting and everybody else to know how much time they have left. We don't, we don't need it yet, but we might. Okay. Okay, thank you. So, do we, I can, I can each time we announce the public comment I can make a statement about no dancer at the time, and the clock with my first instituted. It's necessary. Tracy. I had noticed and I sent you an email on this and I'd mentioned it last time is that on the ECAC agenda right they just have a little bit of language like public comment. You know as time allows or some kind of general thing, but okay. And then and no and I did I send you the language I meant to send it. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It seemed like that was good and I had some Of course, of course. Yeah, yeah, it was just for the future. Okay. Okay. So I'm going to include that in the future agendas and cover. Okay. I'd be happy to check on the clock and how that where that comes from. Less like already knows. Yeah. Yeah, I know it's a deep thing. It's actually a helpful to I noticed that the council uses it not just for public comment but also for counselors commenting. I know we feel like we're getting off track or something that might be a good way to use our time efficiently. Okay. Thank you. So the our next item is I had a request to change the co chair. Yeah, that was me. So I, I, as you recall, I agreed to be co chair a run to for co chair because there any felt that she didn't want to be chair by herself, but she's really taken this on. And I don't feel like I'm adding very much value. And in fact, I think as co chair anyway. And I think that it's actually confusing to the outside world to have to co chairs also like if there's an email going out just having a single co single chair, I think it's easier for, for most outside bodies. So I, I'm going to propose that I resign as co chair. And that I'm happy to nominate myself, or if anybody else would like to nominate themselves as vice chair. The idea is that I would take on the duties of chair if arena is unable to do that for whatever reason. And I would also suggest that as co chair, I mean as vice chair, I would take on timekeeping I think that Maryland suggestion was an excellent one. And so my idea is that I would, once I got the agenda announcement from Sue, I would write up proposed times for each of the items, ending with a two hour, you know, squeezing it into two hours. Okay, everybody so they have a sense. It's just a proposal, people don't have to stick to it but it's, it's a way of trying to keep to time. And I'll do whatever else a vice chair might do. So somebody wants to second. I second. So what we're voting is a vacation and trans changing her position from culture to vice chair. So I'm going to make a roll call Tammy Park. Tracy Safian. Hi, Joseph Gordon. Thank you Shannon. Hi. You didn't have me. Hi, the motion. Thanks. Thank you. So our next item is timekeeping. I know, I know that we have to try to move fast and try to keep it under the two hours limit it's on a note of time for us. But what I'm going to ask everybody I like your idea that you go through the agenda and give us an estimated time. But I think I had a little panic about the month of work that we have to do. So I'm going to ask that everybody does as much as possible work outside because we've many things we won't be able to do it. During the meeting so we're going to have to put some time outside the meetings to make it if not we won't make it. But we have to make it. There's no chance and we cannot extend the deadline some committees sometimes they go longer. We don't have that. We have to submit something by a set of things and it has to be approved by the town council by the set we have to submit it to the state by the city first. So we're going to have to make it work. Okay, so, yes, Tracy. I mean, I just have a side comment on that. I was speaking with Mindy Dom recently is she was at the farmers market. But one thing she mentioned is that actually at the state level to the required to approve the new districts at the congressional level, at least 12 months ahead of the election. So that the state, like, again, speaking to your point of that, we really don't have extra time is like basically the state needs to pass something so that in the November 22 elections that they're all set. Okay, so. There's no way. It all trickles down. Yeah. Okay. Thank you. Our next item is the press release. And I saw several comments on the press release. Did you want to talk about it? Hello. Okay. I'm sure several folks, particularly Maryland has offered some comments. Let's see if I can share screen. Can you all see. Okay, great. So I haven't approved any of these as yet because we are, you know, kind of within the open meeting law to do this type of business. So again, thanks to Maryland. We have several comments. I also changed today. We can let's see if I can enlarge this. Bring this down. Pointed by the town's council governance organization legislative and legislature committee. The board currently has two vacancies to be filled either by one resident of district four and one resident of district five. Is that true? Is that valid? Oh, it's been changed. So we currently have one vacancy and it can be filled by somebody in district four or district five. Okay. So how, so what you're saying there's usually there's two reps that could be in those positions. But right. Right. So the way it works that there's nine voting members and we have 10 districts. So each district can have up to two people, but you can only have nine. Oh, I see what you're saying. Okay. That's why. So then this needs to be reworded to reflect that, which is a bit more complicated and making that plane. Well, but I think you could just say the board currently has one vacancy, which can be filled either by a resident of district four or a resident of district five. Okay. Okay. Are there any other items on here? My email up there. I see it's fixed in one spot, but it's still audits in the second spot. Oh, sure. Okay. That one's correct. Yeah. Yeah, you're copying. Gotcha. And D, I just, I wasn't sure how to do the commenting thing. So I just rewrote pieces and highlighted in this weird pink color. So. Yeah, that's fine. So you rewrote. Yeah, that's totally fine. And you just, I saw you just highlighted. Yeah. I have one more comment. The way it shows is that the phone is as if it was my phone. Oh, yes. Oh, yeah. It's supposed to be another line. Sorry. Phone. Let's see. Contact. This is town, right? Town clerk. Is that better?  O'Connor that would only be able to provide comments through the phone. So anything else? What I would ask is that you all do one more pass through and maybe the, the chair and the vice chair. Let me know if it's, it's okay to go. And of course, I have a list of, of media, but I'm sure the town clerk's office has another list. So we can, or folks have other people to send this to as far as the media. But anyway, let me know and then it can go out or Irene, you could send it out. Yes. But I think it's going to be more successful going through that if it's not my, if you have contacts and people, that would be better. And so if you can also push it out through the normal town. Because if nobody comes from my personal email account and we won't. Okay. So Sue, so I'd see what you're saying. So Sue, once we get the okay from, from Irene and the vice chair, then I guess it would be more appropriate perhaps for you to send it out. Yeah. And I'll work with Brianna Sunred too with our IT department. She's our communications person. So we'll work together. Yep. Okay. My comment was that that was, that would be great. And also I know that Brianna's press releases, right? They both get posted on the town website, but then they also go out to all the email lists and stuff. So I think that's a good way to get distribution. Absolutely. We're just living right now. Is it, where can I find it? It's a Google. Oh, you don't have the, the, so I'll put it. Oh, we can't do chat. So I'll send it to you in email. Okay. Thank you. Yeah. So maybe can we just have a timeframe? Cause I'll take offline. I'll take a look at it and just see if there's anything, but, but, but Sue, maybe somebody could just let you know when it's like ready to go. And then you can follow up with Brianna then. So we need to get an okay from the committee that to delegate to Peggy and I, the last view and approval before sending it out. I will make a motion to that effect. Okay. Okay. I move to approve arena and Peggy sending out the press release and giving it final approval and why don't, can we wait until say, I don't know, Thursday tomorrow night or Friday morning, do people have a preference on that? Would be good to get it out before the weekend. Yes. So I can, the, do you think you can have the comment, the changes made tomorrow morning so that tomorrow afternoon we can take a look and then Sure. Friday can go out. Yep. Absolutely. And do we want to let the people who aren't here know or anyway, that they, this is final opportunity or something. I need, I need the email addresses, I guess of the new folks. Cause I said, they were on there. All right. Yeah. Yeah. On the last email. Okay. So what I'll do is send out an email to everyone, just learning them of this is their last opportunity to look at the draft. Yeah. Okay. Like 9am tomorrow or something. Yeah. Thanks, Tracy. I don't know. 10. 10. You don't have to be doing it then. No, I'm saying you can have it then and send it to them or whatever. Yes. Oh no, I'll send it tonight. Thank you. Okay. So Tracy made a motion and somebody has to second. I. So wait. So wait. So my motion is that well, so can we. Of your sending it tonight. I guess I just wanted to look at it. I didn't want to spend time doing looking at it in a live meeting when we have a busy agenda. But could we do what time do you need it by tonight? No, no, anytime it would be before 12 noon work tomorrow. For you, Tracy.  Yeah. Yeah. So around 12 noon, I'll check back in. And if you haven't gone in there, I'll wait until you go. I'll go and I'll go in there. I just, you know. Okay. Thanks. Okay. So that is for doing that. So tell me second. And I'm going to make a tummy. Parts. Yeah. Hi. Tracy. Hi. Peggy Shannon. Hi. Just as Gordon. Hi. You didn't have me for the motion passes and. Yeah. We'll be sending it out before the end of the week. So the first, the next item is update on consultation with state. And this is actually part of the package. I included the emails. That I've exchanged with the state regarding the number of piercings. And we already touched part of it before saying that. The state. Might be okay with 10 that we need to consult because of growth. But there's not a set limit. It's not that we have to do 12 and it's not that we have to do 15. So that was one thing I learned from the emails. And the other one is that the 5% is a hard stop. We cannot deviate of the 5%. So for me, that's a very important item. Because particularly some of our. Blocks are big. And some of them are very small. So. That's my biggest concern when going to 15. Because the 5% is so little that I don't know. If we're going to be able or how we're going to be able to do it. The second email that we got from the state, it was a general email. They sent today with items that we might have. We're going to have to submit and the procedures to submit. And then it included a link to the website where you can look at all the statistics that they have released so far for Amherst. So you can. So it's a public access now. And then there was a third email. If it made it, it was an email that we got today. Because we had talked to Mike and we had were requesting the state. If they could make us three maps, a starting point with the actual data. So we had, I said, can we get. As a starting point and we don't have to start from scratch.  With their automated data. Without knowing anything about Amherst. So I think that's something that we need. And I think that's something that we need to be aware of. It has to be part of the discussion. If you don't take into account. Any of the easiest increases of Amherst, that is very different from a general town. What a map would look like. Can you build the map of 15 precincts? Can you build a map with 10 and can you build a map of 12? I wanted to know. That. I wanted to make you one of the maps. So you let me know how many precincts you want us to test. So I wanted to defer the, I wanted to defer to the, to the DAB. What we would like them to, for us to test. And if he can give it. I didn't want to make the decision because they meant this afternoon. I wanted to. So there are two hands raised. So Joseph. In my opinion, I think the 15 number would be best. Because in regards to 12, that sort of hinges on the possibility that we're adding a new district, which seems like a complicated process, but with 15, we might be able to more snugly fit with the five district number we already have. And with 10, we sort of already have some sort of idea of what that might look like. So in my opinion, I think 15 would be the best option for their automated map. Okay. Yeah. What Joseph said. Okay. Tracy. And I agree with that too. Okay. So I mean, so I think one thing is I don't even see any way that unless we were to change the number of districts that 12 would even work because the requirement. With the state, right? Is that. I mean, basically each precinct has to have the same number of people within plus minus 5%. And so there's no way you can have one district with. I mean precincts in one district where there's like half the district. And in another, it's a third of the district. Like it's not even feasible. Like the math is completely off. And so, I mean, I know that they came up with that 15 map before. And that was shared by Mike at our first meeting. It's like in the packet with all of his emails. So it would be, it would be helpful to just see what they, come up with for the second 15. Okay. So I'm going to send an email. Asking for 15. Okay. I think. That's the update. What I read from the emails from the state. I've shared with you all of you. I don't know if I am I missing something. Or that you want to discuss. Mike, you, you read the emails. So I think. I think you've covered it. Okay. So I'm going to send an email requested the map of 15. I don't know when we're going to get them. So I think we're going to have to start working in. But. Let's talk about that. So the next item on the agenda is the update, the consultation regarding the number of precincts. And Sue already. Mentioned that. I don't think there's any other verification at this point. So I wanted to move again to. The next item that is. The. The final report of 2011. And I would encourage everybody. I don't know if everybody has read it. Because it has. Important information that we need to discuss. They have. They are there. The discuss. I don't think there's any other verification at this point. So I wanted to move again to the next item that is. They have. They are there. They discuss how. One is we're going to have to produce something similar. That's one thing. The other one is. There was a lot of discussion about the precincts. How they formed the precincts and what was the demographics of the precincts that I think they explicitly say that they made an impact on the precincts. I think that. Having prisons are not just students. With the 15 prisons. I don't know if we're going to be able to do that. And I think this is something that. This. Board is going to have to decide. So what. What will be our. Guiding principles. When setting up. The precinct. If it's just numbers of. The precincts. And so. We have to do it as much as possible. And whether we do it. Thinking not just on the precincts, but the whole situation as a whole. I think in. Districts. Because if we are not going to be able. To balance. In the district in the, in the precincts, we might have to do it in the district. I think that's something that we're going to have to think beyond, not just the locks, but how would you, I think any map that we create would have to be accompanied by a district map and making sure that we are not checking the marks about not disenfranchising any population when we are creating the districts. Tracy, do you want to have your hands raised? I had a comment, just as I was reading, and I, well, I have a comment on your second point just about the districts, I think that, I mean, I would like us to see us get sort of far with the precinct maps, and then start to look at the districts, like I know that the Charter Commission had spent maybe like maybe one or two meetings really talking about the districts and what they found, and it will be a little different for us, right, but what they found is that with the 10 precincts that there were only about nine options total in town, like where you could connect them and group them. And so of course we'll have 15, so we'll have more options, but I think in terms of our time, I think being more firm with some of our precincts might be helpful, and to that point, you know, so when I'm reading this report from this final report, it's talking about how iteratively that they were talking, the DAB was talking with the state in the process, and a little bit in the state had, you know, been concerned about like certain anomalies, like including like if you look at the part where Sue is right now, like 3.2 about like the protrusion of P1 into P3 and things like that. And so I just wondered, you know, based on Mike's experience, I know Mike has been part of DAB processes before redistricting processes is, you know, I know that we have to send our report to the council, you know, by mid October, but just at what point would like would this body be sending something to the state as like a draft or and getting state feedback before it advances to the council so that then the council is seeing something that's already been vetted, or at least reviewed at the state, if not approved. And so, I mean, would we have access to kind of do that? And how does that normally work? I'm not sure how it's going to work. In the past, I did this sort of work in Rhode Island, I did not do it in Massachusetts. In the past, I was sending multiple drafts to people before I ever submitted something as a final submission. So I would, Irina, you're going to be emailing them asking for them to the state to produce 15, a map with 15 precincts. I would append a little second section to that email saying, you know, hey, we are going to the DAB is going to be working towards drafting their own maps as well when we have a rough copy. What should be our procedure? Should we share it with you or should we move it through our process? Because, you know, you're, you're right, Tracy, what's the process? If we think something looks good, the council thinks something looks good, we get it to the state and then they fail it, you know, or they don't. And then we start all over again. And so it's a good question. And I think we should ask the state. Well, and it did seem just from the memo, right, that there was a little bit of iterative process there, like before the final report and the final picture map is done. So, okay. Thanks, Mike. Okay. Any other comments regarding the, I can update, I can draft the email as in the email asking the two items. Thanks for the suggestion. Okay. Any other comments regarding the previous report? Okay. So let's go into the package material. Can I interrupt? Craig Meadows has entered the meeting. Okay. So could we have to upgrade him? Yeah. He's all set. Well, he's about to be all set. There we go. I do need to swear him in. Okay. I can do. I am. Okay. Thank you. Hey, welcome. Right. I'm Sue on the town clerk and I need to swear you in before we get going any further. Fine. Okay. So can you raise your right hand, please?  I do. All right. Okay. Also. I need to acknowledge Craig Meadows has joined the district advisory board meeting at six. Welcome. Welcome. Thank you for joining us. Welcome. Thank you for applying. Yes. So. Tammy gets the halo. Okay. Thanks. So the package material and I think we have a lot to discuss and I, I would like to put some there. I have some ideas of some things that we need to discuss. And maybe I'll give you some points and everybody can chime in other things. I think one of the items that we need to discuss base is. Then the counting what people have found. Briefly. And I think Mike, you had a map. That you showed me about percentages. But I don't know if you have the absolute math. I have. I have a map. I've been trying to publish it an interactive map to the website that. But it's been failing to publish. It's something that I can show. I don't know if we want to dive into those weeds. Okay. It's up to you folks. I think in the name of time, maybe, maybe we could do a first round. Okay. I'm going to start with a quick report with the highlights of what everybody has found. Give me one second. I need to close that curtain because I. Reflection was sorry. While she's off Craig. How about we do who's here right now. We do a quick. Introduction. Of each other. Yeah. Peggy to suit. Okay. Go ahead. Sorry. Yes. Craig and Peggy Shannon. Nice to meet you. I'm from district five. Oh, sorry. I'm from district one. I'm missing. I'm meeting. I'm from district one. All right. I'm Tracy's. And I'm from district three. Hi, Tammy Park from district. I'm sorry. Precinct two. Hi, Craig. Thank you. Thank you, Tammy. Hello, I'm Joseph. I'm from district three. Hello. Thanks for joining Craig. I am Demetria Shabazz. I'm the director of registrar's representative. And hey, Craig, I'm Mike Warner. I'm from IT. For the town of Amherst. I'm the one who makes the maps. Place with the data. So. Great. I don't know how shall we go in order? District's number. To find what we have found. Okay. A basic question. I think it's a basic question. It is the, is it the, the population that it's divided up? Is it divided up amongst. Registered voters. Households. Total population. Population. What does that combination consist of like, I'm. No, it's total. It's just total population. That's all they look at total population. From birth to death, total population. From birth to death. Yes. So just the actual number of people living in an area. Yes. No matter the age, no matter their status. Voter, non-voter, anything citizen, non-citizen. It's just the number of people that live in an area. Okay. The form. Yes. Or we're extrapolated. Like for the ones that are missing. You try to estimate it. And I'm a non-resident homeowner, but I don't get counted for anything. Well, you would be counted if you counted it as your primary residence. But you didn't know because you, your primary residence is in Amherst. That's the qualifying. Yeah. Yeah. So for the students, if a student considers that they are hometown, which isn't Amherst to still be their hometown and that they, they consider themselves to reside. At their hometown with their parents or whatever, then they are not counted as a resident of Amherst for the purposes of the census because they're counted in that other place. Thank you. So one, I forgot one, one from the state. From the updates from the state. I did ask them. What happens if we think that we were undercounted. And they send a link and essentially it's, they don't do updates on the numbers. They might do updates on where the people is assigned, but the fact that we, my thing that Amherst was undercounted. That's it. Because they don't do anything. We cannot change that number. There's no. Tracy, you have a kind of. Sorry, I have a question related to that for Mike. I mean, I know we're going to start to dive into the maps and so on. And I had mainly looked at district three. And a little bit at district four. But I guess can we maybe, and I don't, I guess with this comply with open meeting law, but can we have like a running kind of list of where we see discrepancies? I mean, Mike's already mentioned some. Or like where there's questions. And so I don't know what the best format is for that. The thing. Tracy. I, one of the package material is. I put a spreadsheet. So I went by census block by census blocks, equivalent spaces, trying to compare the population in 2010. So I, some of them are just one census block that match one to one. Many are not. So I, I put the differential between those two. Yeah. Okay. I mean, I was doing the same thing on the master Excel spreadsheet that Mike had put on the DAB page. I just didn't know for Mike's purposes. I mean, I guess can we just send. Like our edits or questions to Mike too, just so he can as a GIS person to elate the state or how that would work. If there were questions. Like if, for example, we see. I mean, I know in the Southwest dorms, for example, there was when they took those two larger census blocks, including the one that was up to like 4,200 people, and then they split them up into a lot of smaller blocks, but in some of the new blocks, right? So people got assigned to the dining hall, but they actually are probably at the resident, which is right next door. Exactly. So like things like that. I mean, is there, what's the best way I guess Mike just share stuff. I mean, I'm sure you've identified a lot of those yourself, but just as we're kind of really looking in the weeds at these, if what's the best way to share those types of things. So what I'll do is I'll create a kind of like a shell of an Excel document, you know, for like the, because this is an example, the example that you just gave Tracy of in the Southwest, Southwest part of UMass, you're exactly right. They have a hundred people or 200 people saying that they're a part that they live in the Berkshire dining commons. Meanwhile, right next to that is a dormitory and they have zero people. Exactly. Yeah. I have found, I've found a dozen or more cases of this around town. Um, and these are examples of things like what Irina just said, the census will adjust things like this. Not the totals, not correct.  Like if you look at, if you guys on your own time, go look at Amherst college. I think I showed you this one as well. There's like 170 people counted on the quad. So the, the little central area, there's, there's 170 people counted there. Just to the east of that, there's dormitories. There's no people in those dormitories, according to the census. And then the same thing, there's patterns of that across town. Um, so I'll create this shell of, you know, identify the census block number and then a note column and maybe something else. And I'll post that on the website and you guys can download it, fill it out and then probably email us to it. So that we uploaded, I guess the thing is when you want them like perpetually or like in, or I don't know, that's why I guess I was thinking of like a Google doc or something just so it's like, I would, as we're going through or like I mentioned the other day, I'm super cautious about. No, of course, of course. So I think the safest thing is for me to create this shell. You guys do the work on your own. We uploaded as part of a packet and maybe, maybe when we uploaded as part of the packet, I'll take, you know, Peggy's comments and your comments and Craig's comments and Tammy's and combine it into one and then share that up. And then we can keep appending to that as we go. Um, so I did have a couple of questions. Um, you know, if we're going to talk about the maps, but just the functionality of how the interactive maps are working is now an appropriate time to ask about that. I just have a quick question before we move on, because it's just regarding what Mike said. Um, excuse me. Sorry, I just lost my train of thought. Um, but you said that if we, the census will adjust the discrepancies that we point out, not like number wise, are they going to be redrawing blocks? I'm not sure if I know they're just going to acknowledge that there's a discrepancy. Correct. They will not redraw census blocks. Those boundaries will not change. Not until 10 years from now or less than 10 years from now, probably eight years, they'll reach out to redraw those. Gotcha. Thank you. Um, Tracy, you had another comment about the maps. I just had some comments just about the functionality of the interactive maps. And is that, is it okay to ask as we're starting to dive into them? Yeah. Yeah. And it's just a couple of quick things. Okay. Okay. Um, so one was just, um, So, you know, for the ones like arena, you mentioned that for some of the blocks that they pretty much matched the 2010 and the 2020, but even on the map sometimes, even when I zoomed in really close, I couldn't see the orange numbers. I could only see the blue though. Occasionally the orange kind of flashed. I don't know if the labels are on top of each other or. What? Okay.  I did click on them. The other thing I was wondering, is it possible, you know, in a couple of cases I was looking at the spreadsheet and it would say, you know, 400 people. And I'd be looking for that block group of where that was. And I couldn't find, is there any way to do any kind of searches on the interactive map, like by block group, for example. Yeah. I can make it searchable. Yeah. So it's not, we're just based on something. Not to make you, like not to make a lot of work. Cause I, there's a little search, like a little search icon, but what it does is it's like asking you for street address. Right. And there were just a few. I'm like, I mean, I was in my, you know, in precinct for, and I'm like, I just do not know where these are. I'm like really. Sure. And the other thing is just, you know, just for people who might not have worked with the census date are also the census tracks and the census block numbers are repeated across different tracks. And I hadn't realized that of course, at first, because I had forgotten. But I mean, and maybe we don't, maybe we wouldn't want to add another layer. I know when you, like when we click on the individual polygons, it will come up and it will have the track data. But I did find it helpful, like I went online and I printed out like just a map of the tracks, just to help me kind of keep it straight in my own mind. Like I noticed, for example, right that like UMass is like one track, mainly in like Hampshire College. And for anybody who's actually, I don't know how much people are individually looking at the 440 rows of all the, for each of the blocks, but, but I was finding that. I will do it maybe for the, the maps that we agreed to make sure that everything is measurable. So I think we have to make a big effort on moving forward. I don't know how much, how many, Mike, I don't know how much that would take these to, these to the previous maps, but to come now to make sure that everything is. Well, so the information's there. And so I actually love the way it like pops up. And like I found when I clicked on the polygons, right, it would have the pop-up window would have like two different screens. It would have the one screen for 2010 and then the one screen for 2020, which was like just amazing to have all of that like information. It just, it's sort of labor-intensive to have to go through it. So hopefully maybe if we get to the map that I've been working on since our last meeting, maybe it will make things a lot easier for you, but we'll get there. There was another comment. No? Okay. So one, one thing that I want to make sure that this is, should be our discussion on how we set up the precincts later is the things that we found this week, whether we think that things are undercounted. We, normally I cannot do much besides making sure that those precincts that where we think they're undercounted, we make a mental note so that when we are creating the precincts, we create those from the average down to make sure that we take into account on what we believe are undercounted population. The ones that we were able to identify. I think that's the only way I can see to make sure to include the population that we think that is undercounted that we were able to identify the areas that we were able to identify. Probably we're going to miss some, but I don't see, since the census won't change the numbers, there's not much else we can do with the information that we've been gathering. I think we have to have a mental note and with the moment that we're making the precincts, we should all make sure that we are able to adjust those based on the information that we got there this week. That's a suggestion. So I don't know if anybody has any other way of how to handle the data. What I know, so if we go through the districts, I can start with district one. I found probably my numbers I think is like three or four, at least probably 400 people difference less than we are undercounting. There are many, many areas where you have in the same surface area and these are places that I could not identify things changing much structurally that the population went down. There were only a couple of places where the population went up, but I think a couple of those identify new developments, but overall population in many places and those were mainly related to human storms or where students live. So in district one, there's a whole areas that there are many places where students live, so off-campus housing and also there's a lot where those went down. So that's what I identify, although the numbers for district one don't change much between 2010 and 2020, the fact that there were new developments and the population still remain almost the same, the little change that tells us that we are undercount. Who did district two? I did district two. So district two has five apartment complexes and in all of them except for college in there was a significant decrease in the number of people counted, so that's suggestive that it was undercounting. We don't know for sure, but again a lot of these are where students live, so they may have left because of the pandemic and as Dee said last time it may also have been people who lost their jobs and had to move. So there are a number of those and then there was one really large increase near the Wildwood area. I'm just forgetting what that was is that maybe new construction there I think, so new development, so that maybe is that maybe like Olympia place like that, Olympia Drive? Yes, yes, exactly. I'm assuming that that's what that means. On East Pleasant because that's Olympia Drive up there, off of East Pleasant? Yes, yeah that's new, yeah. There's the what is it, the state the Village Public Private Partnership building that's on Olympia Drive as well, that's like six stories or something. It's got a lot of people in it. Okay, so yeah, so that explains that that's like a 250 person increase there, but like I said most of the decreases were in the apartment complex areas. I want to make a comment also about district 1, I forgot to say. I noticed that the state broke down the census blocks into smaller ones for many of like the dorms. Some portion that is at the age of district 1, there were some dorms and they used to have over 1,000 people. Now it's distributed into four census blocks of 200, so that's going to make our life a little easier when creating the business. There's only a couple of census blocks that are for 500 people, otherwise most of them are more. There's 1,790 people or no 500, but I don't see any 1,600, but that's it. They reduce the sizes of the census block considerably, so that's going to make our life a little easier. Is district 1 Arena where there's, they counted like 200 people under the solar panels that are near the UMass campus, and then they didn't count the people that are in the dormitory that are right beside the solar panels. It's another example of an error. I don't know if that's, it's right on the border of one and two. No, I think that's maybe two, I think. I think it's for in a home, I think. I can check. District three. Okay, so I did district three. So district three includes precinct four and precinct 10. So if we look at the data and I asked for it to be in the packages with the percentages, it shows that precinct four went down by 450-something people and precinct 10 went up by 1700. So I mean, I have some questions about it at the precinct level, but I'll say overall, I think that the district is the, so overall district three went up by 1286 people. I think that's pretty accurate. I think it might have been a little bit higher, but not too much. And the main contributor to that is the Commonwealth College dorms, which were built around 2013 that have three, 1300 beds. So they weren't there. Now they're there. And so, so district three overall, it worked out. Okay. I think, and this was a question for Mike a little bit is so like around so Commonwealth, I mean, sorry, the Southwest dorms are in both precinct four and precinct 10. But one question I had, you know, in terms of when you were counting, and particularly there was that really large block before with the 4200 people. So one thing I didn't know is when you were counting who was in which blocks were in precinct 10 and precinct four, like were you using the 2010 blocks, because like now stuff is split up separately. And it was before like, for example, there's in that 4200 census block. If I looked at the census, if I look at the, the precinct map, like it's showing that some of the 4200 is in precinct four and some is in precinct 10. And so I feel like the numbers I was getting about how precinct 10 went up 1700 and precinct four went down 450, like some of that could just be related to like stuff kind of moving around in Commonwealth, I mean, in the Southwest dorms. So they're not actually like real increases and decreases. I wasn't sure how that was counted. Right. So the map that you guys were reviewing, it was purely the numbers from the 2010 census and the 2020 census. There were no calculations in there by me at all. No, but I thought that didn't, but there were some maps and it showed how it was split by like the population by precincts. Oh, maybe, maybe you're looking at that. Yeah. So that's what I was looking at. And so I just didn't know how, like for 2020, anyway, how it was sort of calculated, you know, and just because Southwest, because it kind of got split up differently. Right. Yeah. So it was a very, and it's one of the reasons that it's taken me so long to produce the map and get it up there. But the geometry changed between 2020 and 2010 in that area. So what I did, what I did there is I basically took the 2020 geography and I reverted it back to the 2010. So I counted how many people are in that area in 2010 and said, hey, did this number increase or decrease when you're hearing it to do them? And what you see here is you see that it's a four to 10% increase. That's what this light color green is right here. So what I found for there is looking at the individual census blocks, which, so what I found is that, so there had been originally in Southwest, there had been two census blocks and it became eight census blocks. And so for one group of it, it went down 700. And then another group, it went up, the other cluster went up 150. So like overall, the Southwest dorm population went down 550. That was sort of my estimate. I had it going up. So we'll have to look at that and see what's going on there. Yeah. Well, just for the eight census blocks that I was looking at. Okay. Yeah, because there's a little bit more than eight there. There's like 10 or 12. No, but some of those are zeros, but yeah. Okay. I think we're like in the same. Yes, it's complicated to compare things historically to present when the shape of things have changed. And I think Irina mentioned that she had that case too. Yeah. And so, but I think that overall, the fact that District 3 had the 1300 increase, which, and there was a new dorm of 1300, like I, that seems pretty close. And then, but I did notice, yes. So the one, the other thing I found is that Oh, I guess this is precinct 3. Never mind. So this is part of five that we had looked at a little bit too. No, wait, which one? No, wait. Oh, sorry. That's precinct nine. So in terms of like other little things. So I didn't know, Mike, if you really, you know, in a couple of places, there are like people with the parking lots, like the parking lot across from Southwest dorms. It now has like 12 people living there. It used to be zero. And I'm sure it's still zero. Yep.  I don't, they don't really change the numbers that much. No, I think we, we should look at the big picture right now because we cannot do anything. And when we are looking, send the information to Mike and then keep track, but we cannot look at the noise. So did anyone? Yeah. So sorry, just so one, one just last comment about so in the, in precinct four, in the neighborhoods that are south of campus, the ones that go all the way down to say route nine, like that area, as I went through each block and I compared the 2010 and the 2020 and both of those, for most of those, the census block boundaries stayed almost the same or the same. It did show that they went down in the number of the neighborhoods, including like around Amity Place and near University Drive. And, you know, there'd be 40 on one street and 50 on the other, that kind of thing. And so overall it came out to about a decrease of about 150. I don't actually think that that's that accurate. Like I live in that neighborhood and it's not like there's been new houses or fewer houses. I mean, maybe some of those were off campus students who didn't account properly. I'll also note that in precinct four or two, just around, like we already know that some of the data is out of date. For example, there's 70 University Drive, which is part of precinct four, which is very Robert's like housing complex. And now that's open and that has like additional units, which we didn't count. So. So district four. Did any Oh, I didn't know. I didn't know. Okay. So D. Shabazz and I, we talked about district four a little bit. And we, you know, we spent some time going. So unlike district three, which is such like compressed with so many census blocks in the small area. Oh, sorry. So one other thing I just wanted to mention with district three. I mean, sorry, precinct three is that still, like even though in the Southwest dorms, those large census blocks were split up, there's still one census block in the Southwest dorms, which has 2,500 people. So with that census block, like if we're looking at having, you know, 15 precincts, 15 precincts is 2600 per precinct. So we're basically stuck like having that one dorm, that one dorm, dorm cluster, like be its own precinct, like there's not much we can do there. So we basically have one of our 15 precincts already set because we just aren't flexible on that. Well, we might, we might be able to add one, one other census block to it if it is next to it. Maybe it has to be next to it and continue. So pretty much, pretty much that's its own one. So D and I did look a little bit. And so overall district four had a population change of about 306. My sense is that it's mainly going to be similar to what I experienced in district, I mean, in the precinct four, where you're going to have like changes just like block by block, a lot of those census blocks again add up for 2010 and 2020. We did notice something though I thought was pretty interesting. There was a, there was a big change in the UMass central residential area, which is one of the dorms. So it's one of the dorms down the hill that falls into precinct nine. And it showed from what I could tell, it showed a population decrease of about 400 students. And I don't think that like anything there changed. I mean, if Mike has time, we can pull it up on the map, but it seems to be the same to me. If we want, if anybody else wants to take a quick look and they know something, I don't know. Yeah, I'm more than happy to share if people want to see, but I also don't want to drill. It's already six. Yeah, yeah. District five. Did anybody. Yes, I looked at district five. There were like three areas of major change in district five. First off was Hampshire College enrollment from Hampshire at Hampshire went down by about a thousand students from 2010 to 2020. So that explains that very well. The other decrease was up in the bold and boulders and renew neighborhood that decreased by 75 people approximately. And then there was one increase, which was just south of that in the Glendale Road. I think it maybe was the butternut development came in. So that increased by actually a couple of hundred people. So those are the three changes there. So what I'm hearing is that in most of the districts, unless I think I don't know how to say this, we feel like there are many places that we and I counted that it's not centralized to one place that we couldn't. I think maybe we should have looked at the places that didn't increase. There's anomalies instead of decrease because I had thought, okay, I only look at district one and I saw many places that they decreased by 100, 150, 50, 70. But I'm seeing that is happening in all districts except when we saw new developments. Right? So my sense is that this idea that I had that we should put the ones that we saw that there's a decrease supported below the bar. We won't be able because we have most of the places we have below the bar except when we saw new developments coming. I think on a micro level we can still do that. I mean, so I'm thinking about, in district five, the renew boulders neighborhood, it seems to me we can look at the neighborhoods that are the blocks that are contiguous to that and and see whether we can build a precinct that has that's a little bit on the lower side. And the neighborhood below which had a huge increase that could be a precinct on the higher side, that kind of thing. Yeah, because we don't see growth coming. Okay. So I just I just ran some quick stats on the map that I have. So 140 census blocks went down in population townwide and 186 increased in population. Okay. And it's kind of spread all over town. I was just going to say very quickly that the number is incorrect for Hampshire College and that they the part of it has zero for a whole lot of the housing where a lot of students live. So the 2020 census is incorrect. Are you saying that it's incorrect in the ways that other places are incorrect, meaning that they've assigned people to parking lots or they haven't assigned people to dorms? Or do you feel like the overall number is completely wrong? Well, so it shows 388 people living in close to Franklin Patterson Hall, which is a classroom building, but taken in Merrill are the two first year dorms, but all the dorms that are showing to the north of that all have zeros and the students are equally distributed between those two living areas. The 2010 census shows two different numbers in those blocks, 744 in the lower block and 413 in the upper block. It now shows zero in the upper block. So it's not accurate because half of the student population still lives in that housing. The numbers just been added for. All total it has 586 people on the Hampshire campus. Like it may have not distributed them evenly Tracy or Tammy, but you think that number 586 is about right for the number of students that would have been on campus. So it's 388 for one census block and then one just to the north of that has 191 in it. Oh, so my math was incorrect. I'm not seeing the 191. Oh, okay. I'm sorry. So it's 579. So no, that's okay. I'm sorry. That was me. That was the map wasn't large enough for me to see the 191. It was too close to the other number. No, that's more or less accurate. So now, but they may have not distributed them correctly, but we're probably not going to, we're not going to split up. We wouldn't split up Hampshire college campus anyway, right? We would keep it all as one. No, that's accurate the way it is. Okay. So we're seeing them in many places, as you say, diminishing and I think they have the sense of blocks went down. Now we have this information and I think now we have to start working on creating maps and I want to bring it up. How do we move forward with creating maps? I think we have to move into tracks in parallel. One is we can ask the state to create a map which we've seen as a starting point. And the other one would be taking the one that we have with the 10 precincts that we have now. We will have to do, I'm open to suggestions and putting this out and everybody should I mean we know that the precincts that the way we have them now will not work because in some places we have a huge increase in some places decreases. So we need to modify that. Now, I think before we start the whole process, we should discuss what would be the acting principles that we want the precincts to be based on. Beyond, we have the hard facts that if they cannot be more than 4,000 and they cannot differ by more than 5% plus or minus 5%. So those are our hard stops. Now, how are we going to try and therefore we don't have the information on all the demographics. We don't have by age. We have only by race and location, but we don't have more demographics. We don't have socioeconomic and we don't have age distribution. So when we are building the precincts, how do we go about ranking the parameters? How would we join together the different precincts? And I'm open to suggestions. Okay. I'm ready to suggest. Yes, please. I think I like your idea of the two tracks. We get the state to draw some map and we also try to start our own. I think that because we are the ones that know Amherst and we're working and we want when possible not to be as too disruptive, not to be unnecessarily disruptive to our voter body, that I'm wondering, can we take our current district map? And for the districts that are already pretty close to where they need to be, we, well, actually, I'm not even sure we can do that. But for example, district two is close in number to where it needs to be, I believe. So we can try to see how we would do three precincts in there. District five is really low. We need to move people into district five and we would preferably like to do that from district three, but they are not next to each other. So we're going to have to leapfrog. So I'm just wondering, can we, it doesn't make sense to start with our current district map and not try to shift those boundaries wildly, but see if we can fit three precincts in each of our districts with the exception that district three has to lose a thousand people and district five has to gain a thousand people. And that's probably via district four. Does that make sense? Yeah, district four. So we're going to have to make a rotation like the way sometimes I think it's having as much as possible that kind of pie shape so that the students are more or less distributed in all precincts or in all districts. So I had this idea of having students, if we have a kind of a problem, it's very hard because it's elongated. If we had a bound place, ideally, when you have like the students distributed throughout all the districts, I would feel bad just shifting from one precinct to another. So what you're saying is modify only three districts and keeping maybe two districts as close as possible as you are, as they are. Yes, that, yes, that's essentially what I'm suggesting. I mean, I haven't looked at the demographics at all. And so this is with the understanding that this may not be a good idea, but it's a place to start. Tracy? So I actually was thinking differently that in terms of how the districts were created like based on the 10 precincts, I mean, when I went back to what the Charter Commission did, like I feel like the some of the pairings could have been different. And so I'd almost like to start with the precincts and then just rethink about how they created the districts and the criteria that we want to use. But I do like the idea. I mean, when I've been looking at the maps myself just about starting like visually at least starting sort of with the 10 precincts and seeing where we think that stuff could split off and where we think people, you know, sections could get added or something. And I think it's going to be important with Mike, like having Mike there just so that he can tell us like how stuff is adjusting. So if we're going to have, if we have 40,000 people and we're going to have 15 precincts, assuming that's what we're going to have, then it's going to be approximately like 22670 people per precinct, which would be a total of up to like 78 or 8000 people per district. So just kind of looking at the numbers that Mike has given us and just thinking about, you know, keeping them sort of starting from the 10 precincts and just seeing how we're adjusting at the edge. I mean, so overall, the overall change is 4%. So in some cases at the precinct level, we're sort of just adjusting maybe at the edges or where we know that there have been big developments or big changes. That's my thinking. And maybe, and maybe I don't know the extent to which we can do it interactively during the meeting because it takes some time and our meetings go so quickly. But maybe, you know, some of us could start from the north and some could start from the south or something. And then sort of report back about what it's looking like. Mike, is there a way to use like a whiteboard or something like that within these meetings where if we saw, we pulled up a district map from 2010 and could be, you know, kind of playing with those boundaries as we have a discussion, it might be useful. I know it's like another something. No, that is exactly you read my mind. So, and I've been waiting for us to get to this point for a couple of weeks now. But when we get to this point of actually wanting to draw these precincts, we can look at this interactive map that I have on my screen and we can, there's a tool that I have that basically says, oh, we're going to move forward on this model and we're going to choose 15 precincts and let's start drawing lines and we'll draw that line and boom, we'll automatically on that tool, it'll show us how many people are in that blob that we just drew. And then, oh, let's remove this one block because something and let's add it over here and we build it out together in a group. I would love to do that. I think that's the best use of our time as a group to draw it together in a meeting instead of us breaking away and me going back to my desk and drawing it. I think that would be pretty time consuming. I could get it wrong. It would have been a waste of our time. So that's what I would recommend is we set aside a good amount of time next meeting to actually start getting in here and start playing with, okay, this is what we want precinct one to look like. Let's try it, precinct two. Let's start building out those scenarios if that makes sense. And could I make another suggestion just in terms of time? All of these notes that we've accumulated pertaining to the districts we've looked at, including demographics, including, you know, undercounting of like apartment buildings or student housing, etc. That we would bring those notes and as we play with those lines, we would have kind of a deliberative discussion based on, well, what is within those boundaries already and what's not appearing on the maps, what's been left out. So just a suggestion. Exactly. So this map that we're looking right here at is this is just an example. We're not going to go into it and dive in and start, but this is the percent change between 2010. So this basically things that are warm colors show those places that were potentially undercounted, you know, some of the apartment complexes. So we can turn this layer on when we're drawing those precinct boundaries. We can turn on other demographic maps when we're drawing these boundaries so that we can look for concentrations of different racial statistics. So those are definitely things that we can overlay and it'll probably confuse our brains late in the day, but we can have those tools at our fingertips. So I have a comment and then Craig, Penny and Tracy. So Mike, can we have this map? I think I mentioned it in absolute numbers also because in some of these census block at 10 percent change is to people. Okay, great. That's it right there. Okay, good. Great. Thank you. So I think this is the one that we're going to need more when we are building the precincts because these are the numbers that we changed. So Craig, that was your comment? That was my comment. I saw one spot where there was a large percent change, but I know that there were only two more people that were added to the area. So percentage change doesn't really have any need. Right. We were just looking for patterns, Craig, to see and we were waiting to hear back from the state about, hey, we were recognizing a lot of these undercounted areas. Is there something that we can do about it? So we were trying to identify, are there patterns of types of locations where people were potentially undercounted? And that's what the percent change kind of showed us, but I have the absolute value change here as well. That's great. So that's another layer that we can turn on and turn off when we're reviewing things. Mike, can we get this map before the next meeting? Can it be one of the resources so we can fool around with it ourselves and really understand it? Sure. Which one? The absolute value or the percentage change? I was trying. Neither one of those. The one with the tool that allows us to actually build a precinct. Yeah, go ahead. So that one actually costs a lot of money. I'm trying to get approval to buy it, but I have not gotten approval for that yet. So, okay. Tracy? So, Mike, I had a question about the, can you tell us a little bit just about this whole black area with UMass? Like why is it a 1200% increase and so on? Like what is that meaning? It was just because in the, it was an outlier. There were a couple outlying areas. Actually, it was just the UMass main campus. That census block, I think it was, I forget the name of the housing that went there. It's right off of... Right. There's the Commonwealth College housing, which added 1,300 beds, but that wouldn't be a like whatever. Oh, so like by the percentage it showed that it was like a 1200% increase. Yeah, but in the 2010 census, there were only like 50 people counted there or something. It was something really low, I think. But why would that make like the entire like main campus black? Because remember, I lumped them together based on prior geography. This is one of the areas where it was difficult to complain. No, right. I know. I was looking at that too. Exactly. Yeah. Okay. All right. All right. Thanks. So I guess another question was just, so in the spreadsheet data that we received that's on the DAB webpage, it does have the race data to the extent that we have it, right? It has the total population, then it has the breakdown of like racial categories, and then the P2, which is the with Hispanic origin too. So, I mean, there are a lot of categories, I think like in each for both the P1 and the P2, there's like, what is it like 50 or 60, 70 categories? I mean, maybe if there's a way to like aggregate those or I don't know if we want to live together all groups, like treat everybody who's not European white the same or and just also like, what's the easiest way to show some of that as we're doing some of this math building? Because I do think it's useful to maybe look at that in terms of like majority, minority, minority, majority areas and things like that. So that's sort of a question to the group too. But I mean, if we agreed that, you know, we wanted to keep like, would we want to show all categories of people who are non not white European descent, like to group them together or have like different categories? You know, as we're starting to think about percentage of population in these areas that are quote minorities. I would feel very uncomfortable grouping everybody that wasn't European together. No, I mean, I agree. I was just trying to, but I'm just saying there's so many groupings. Right, but there were hundreds of groupings and so I agree with you. It's a yeah, I don't quite know what to do. But so yeah, maybe maybe we all need to think about that and look a little bit at the data itself to get a feel for what actually what the communities might be there living in town. You know, become familiar. So I'm not totally advocating this, but I am aware that places like UMass or other universities, they kind of signal when there's Hispanic and African American or black categories, even when there's a racial mixture, that those categories get compressed, unfortunately, and same with some Asian groups, particularly Cambodian, that type of thing. So it actually is a really good question and and Peggy, maybe you're signaling that we should look at what are the main populations that are present, particularly in this new census, and maybe regard those as groups or groupings to keep in mind, not to say you're ignoring the rest of them. But now that everyone's able to put their admixtures, it gets very complicated. So I think we cannot look, I was looking at the state page and they're only on the map, I can only identify that they put five categories on their map. I don't know if we want to follow that grouping or since Amherst is different, we look at our own grouping. I think maybe about your map, like what's the state map that you were looking at? Is that one that the Secretary of State office suggested you look at? Okay. Yes. So it was from there at the bottom, you could click on Amherst, so they had the whole state and then you can click on Amherst and choose different categories. Did you have that comment? All I was saying was that I think we should keep both in mind, in that it might be helpful to be informed by the state as well as other places, but part of our job and again, non-voting member, but part of the job of the committee is to look at what is localized. And so certain populations like the Cape Verdean community is localized as well as the Khmer Cambodian community is localized. So maybe keep both of those in mind. Yeah, I did see that, Adine. So I had a question about it. So maybe, I mean, there's two ways not to aggregate completely or anything. And of course, I do think that the different, the specific racial categories and origin data does matter, you know, particularly for some parts of our community. But I mean, one idea I had is just to even get a sense, like because there's the 440 census blocks and the whatever 150 categories of race, maybe just even just to take a quick snapshot of it to like aggregate for like each of the individual categories, just to look at the total percentage for Amherst, just so we're kind of, you know, know what's overall in the community. And that does include the subcategories. But then also, you know, as a first cut, even to see, not for our purposes, completely to sum it up, but like in the individual block groups, perhaps to like sum up those groups just to say, like, this is the overall percentage of, you know, non European whites in that area, and then you can dial in on what those different communities are. But just because there's like the 450 of them to sort of start with, that that could be one way to look at it and say, like if, I mean, I think, you know, there are a lot of zeros and a lot of those rows and columns. And so just doing a quick count, you know, kind of shows us where the where the main pockets are of those populations. And then once we've identified those areas, I mean, I think all of us know where some of them are already. But I mean, I don't I know that I don't know where all of those clusters are. But then you can kind of dive in into those individual blocks and take a closer look at like who's there and so on. That's just a suggestion. So Tristan, you're suggesting that we all dive into this spreadsheet? Yeah, I mean, I can I mean, if people wanted, I could, you know, do a quick like some of these quick sums just to sort of see like, you know, where the main where the main areas are, you know, similar to some of Mike's or Mike probably has that data too. I mean, he has it geographically. So I just wanted to say a tip for you, Tracy, if you're anyone who's doing that. And I don't know, let me see if I can, I just want to pull it up and share something that's from the meeting packet really quick. I know we're running late on time. But I want to show why this is valuable. So this is the the data dictionary file, this explains when you download that Excel spreadsheet, this explains what each one of the columns mean the column headers in the spreadsheet. So P 001 0001, that is the total population for each census block in town. The one that ends in number two, that's the population that is that registered themselves as one race. And then it goes down by category, you know, white, black or African alone. And then it goes population of two or more races. So what you can do, Tracy, or anybody who wants to look at the data is you can look at P this one right here to just overall see how many people considered, you know, filled out the census to fit into these different things instead of having to go through and sum up all of the different columns here. Oh, yeah, I mean, I was just gonna have the computer do it. Like I wasn't gonna be like, but um, yeah, no, I see what you're saying. Yeah. And so actually, and that's really so, just to share with people. So this, this file that Mike showing on the screen is one that I had put together because Mike could share the technical document for the population data that was released in the technical document is 200 pages long. And it includes the data dictionaries for other fields as well, including ones that we don't have access to yet. But I thought just because there are all these different columns, I wanted to give like a short version. So, but thanks for explaining that that's a good way to look at it. Okay, I want to be cognizant of the time. So it says there are 659. Yeah, I just want to say so what can we do as committee members between now and next week to further our progress here? I just want to be clear. Yeah, that was that was my that's what I wanted to bring up and open to suggest. So we know that next meeting we're going to start looking at the maps in more detail. So it might to try to start building the precinct. So I think one of the things that we can all do is to look at the data again, look at the interactive map that Mike has put in the past to look so that we can identify the areas and it's fresh on our memory. Look at the 2010 current this current price. And if Mike finishes the map with the presented changes, can you put an overlay of the current precincts in those? Yes. You finish the map with the absolute changes that would be also helpful. So what? Yes. So I would I would suggest I'll hopefully publish this data, you know, and then we can you folks can be looking at the the precinct map, the precinct current precinct boundaries. And have we we've decided that we're going to ask the state to produce a map for 15, right? So does that mean we are going to start working towards 15 as well? Or are we going to work on 10 first and see what it looks like? And then if we stub our toe, then go to 15. Because that I think is an important decision to make before we start even thinking about building precincts. Yes. Oh, maybe we can all think about that and come back. But well, Tammy has something to say. I think it has to be 15. When we look at the the new housing blocks, I don't see how it's going to be less than 4000, especially when we're finding under council, we believe to be under counts. So I don't it just doesn't seem possible to me. My only concern is whether we can satisfy the 5% and I think we're going to have to and satisfy all the other requirements. So we we're going to have to give up something at some point. And I think that I think we need all to become centered at some point, we're going to have to give up something because we won't be able to have them balanced and 5% and we saw so small numbers. So I think we can start and see kind of how unbalanced we are. One question I had on this is just I'm assuming, I mean, I have worked through maps, not census maps, but like add an interactive meeting before, but just other detailed maps. And then maybe if we agree as a committee that we wanted to sort of start in the south and work up or the north or something, because I don't think realistically that we would get through the whole town in our meeting. Do we want to maybe just say we're going to focus on I don't know some section of town and then and then all this could focus on that section and then as long as as many meeting like say, you know, I don't know from like the Amherst center north or whatever and then move on. I think we start with the hardest part first because if if we're going to try for 15 because that's kind of the spirit of the law, even though the letter of the law might allow us to do 10, the spirit suggests 15 because we know new development, we know of undercounting and that's hard to do 15. Then perhaps we start with the hardest place and then we find out we can't do it or we find out, okay, we can do it. So it's the hardest place the areas with the blocks that are almost entire, you know, one block might be upheasinked or is the hardest place the areas, the more rural areas where we have a little less leeway. I'm not sure I'm putting that out as a question. Thank you. Have a comment. Just asking, is the choice 10 or 15? There's no in between? No. Yes. Those are the two choices. We can go to 20. Anything that's a multiple of five. Go to 30. No, thanks. We have five districts, so we have to have even numbers. Right. I mean, so I guess in that vein, I think that the densest districts, the smallest ones are the hardest, you know. I mean that when you get to the outline areas, there's a lot of districts that are smaller. Yeah. I mean, maybe we do start in the town center or something. So do we start? I don't know. That's one option is to start at the town center moving radially out or we start left to right, like how we do this goal, farmers, north, south, east, west. I suggest we start at UMass and move out. Okay. Only because we know that that's problem, those are some problematic areas. That's where the huge increase has been. We know that there's one block there that's probably its own precinct. We start there, we move out. Okay. So that means that the idea there is that we would try to split as much as possible the center of UMass so that we distribute the students and move out as much as possible. Radiate. I mean, I think, right, that was a goal in the last one that they really didn't want to have. Well, so in the charter commission, they didn't want to have student-only districts. And I think that was also a goal with the precincts, but I think it's going to be hard in some of the more dense dorm areas to have much there besides the students. Okay. So let's, I think the, so the, I think the home of all of us is to stare carefully at the map and let's start focusing on centered on the UMass center and the surroundings. And then we're going to start from there next week. Yeah. And I mean, if it's helpful because I did look at the, those UMass dorms, like the southwest area. I look at the north. I mean, I can, but I can stand around like my table that I've like marked up of like the different blocks and things. And actually because, because I got a slight decrease in southwest dorms and Mike hadn't increased, maybe I'll run it by Mike first to make sure I didn't like miss something obvious. So I included a spreadsheet for all the precincts that also includes dorms on district one and the student housing. I tried to put that identifier where they were because census blocks don't match in general. So they were usually good for four or five or 10. But I tried to group them and so it's already in the package for this week. That's great. Yeah. And I think UMass includes five precincts. So. Okay. So that's our homework. So you say anything else that we haven't discussed that we should have discussed before we close? Coming. I just have a quick thing for Mike. In the materials for today, the very first thing is a 28-12 census 2020 official data. When I click on that, the data is microscopic. And I've tried a whole bunch of different ways to make it large and I'm not sure. Let me look at that. Is that the PDF of the Excel file? Yes. So there is, so Tammy on the DAB webpage, there is an Excel file underneath the listings with the maps and that way it will come up in Excel and not in a PDF. I thought I unpublished what you're talking about. Tammy, I apologize. Can I kind of say what we did? Yeah. Under resources on the right hand side of the DAB page, the very last thing on the bottom right is census 2020 block data. That's the Excel spreadsheet that we've been referring to. And we'll unpublish that PDF that's unusable. So I do have a related question with the packets. So I mean, I know we have packets for each meeting, but for some of this information that we're going to be like bringing up over and over again, like the tactical document and the spreadsheet and so on, would it make sense or would it be possible maybe to have like in the meeting packets to actually just have some general packet like of like information that we would be using at multiple meetings? Okay. Does that make sense? So I mean, I know sometimes like the council, if there's ongoing items that they'll just put it in the packet for each week, but I guess I was wondering if a suitable or if an allowed alternative for that, particularly for the census data, which isn't stuff that's not changing week to week, we could just maybe have like a reference packet or something. Okay. I don't know. Is that okay to do that or? Reference material. Mike, could we do this on the DAB main page? Like you have the Excel link, we could have a link to reference materials and we could just leave all the... But it would be nice if we could even put it in the meeting packet area too, because like I know people are coming like to the meeting packets. Like could we have like a folder called like material for all meetings or something? Okay. Yeah. If that makes sense, you know. Yes, we could. Yeah, I know what you're trying to say. Okay. You have to identify what those are and I'll put them in there. Okay. Yeah, I also like that idea, because when we're talking about things and we're going back and forth saying I'm looking at the census report, I'm keep looking back and forward to try to figure out exactly what one we're talking about. And so I don't want to keep spending time trying to figure out where we are, because I'm pulling things up and I started looking at it when we're talking about something else. I'm trying to figure out where you are. One other question I have is that for that big census data sheet, it didn't possible for someone to to fill in the, you know, race categories and eliminate all the data that we don't need to look at, you know, the block number and the race information? Or is that what... So, I mean, I've been working on this census. I've been working with that spreadsheet already. I'm like a big... I like data. And I had hidden... I didn't... I hid some of the columns, like there's a number columns related to geography that we're not really using that are more like related to the, for the GIS people. And I can share like that version. I mean, the columns are still there and I, you know, we can add in those definitions and I can do that if nobody else wants to. I just think it would be good because if we have those blocks in mind, then when we're looking at the district team, then we can pay attention to, you know, the data from those blocks. It's almost like I'd like to have that separate so that when you're, you know, we're going to be looking at like up to 8,000 people in a district. Is that right? Yes. It's more to people per district. And so we can start, you know, we can pay attention to what blocks are there. And I guess right now I'm just kind of struggling through that data to condense it. So for the blocks that I looked at, I mean, I, for the blocks I looked at, I tried, and this is, you know, where I was a little bit challenged in southwest terms, but I did try to identify what just what precinct they're currently in, you know, because I was trying to match the data. But I don't, I don't know if people would want to go through and like identify for each census block what precinct that was or is or. Well, that would be nice. You know what, I have that information. I have that information. You know what I'm going to do? For each, for each census box? So you have it on the census box like those two? No, what I, what I do have is the street precinct list and it shows what street names are in what precinct. We don't have street addresses. We have no street. No, no, no, but it's got like U.M. U.M. Lewis is in precinct three. U.M. John Adams is in precinct 10. Would that be helpful? Sort of. Does a census block identify the name of the, you'd have to look. No, I mean, I've been like making my own labels just to like try to keep track for the ones I looked at. I guess it would just, you know, if we could do it, do something like that, then you could, you know, put blocks together. You know, that's what I, I guess that's the way to think of it. So I don't know, Mike, so, I mean, there were these estimates of the population on the precinct level. I mean, I know they're not perfect, right? Especially like where the precinct boundaries have changed a lot, but is there some way to like, you know, just do like an overlay and have an estimate of the precinct, even though, I don't know, as opposed to having to like individually like look up each one or something. Yeah, I was coughing earlier. Yeah. Yeah, it's possible. We're going to get into those situations where, you know, like Southwest, where I'm going to have to make a decision. I'm like, oh crap, where do I put these people? But maybe that's where I refer to the list of what Sue's talking about, the list that she has of dormitories and which precinct they're in to kind of build it out. But for the most part, programmatically, I should be able to do it. But then, yeah, I mean, so for those ones, like the ones I, you know, it wasn't clear to me because I wasn't clear the extent to which the Census Bureau ended up splitting that one giant block, the 4,200 or not. But I just kind of marked it as both or something like it's on the boundaries just to So, Mike, is one of your overlays with the blocks? The block shapes? Yeah, yeah, we know the boundaries when we're moving them around. Yes. Yes. Yes. Okay. Okay. So is there any public comment? I know we still have, we haven't lost over. So there's no public comment. Somebody wants to make a motion to adjourn. I move we adjourned. So, a second. Okay. Tammy Parks. Hi. Joseph Gordon. Hi. Peggy Shannon. Hi. Tracy Safian. Hi. Craig Meadows. Hi. Irina Khobni. Hi. So the meeting is adjourned at 7.16 p.m. Okay. Thank you all. Thank you. I'm sorry, that's our next meeting. Is it Wednesday at 5 or not? Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, sorry. Next week it's at 5, yeah? Yes. September 1st, yep, 5 o'clock. I'm sorry, made a mistake. So next week it's still at 5 and then we move to the following week. Okay. Thank you. Thank you for that survey. All right. Bye. Hi. Craig.