Hi and welcome to the session. Today we will learn about trigonometric ratios. Suppose we are given a right angle triangle ABC, right angle at B and we need to find out the trigonometric ratios with respect to angle A. So we know for angle A the side opposite to angle A is the perpendicular and we will denote the perpendicular by the letter P. The side adjacent to angle A is the base which will be denoted by B. AC is the height continuous as this is the side opposite to the right angle that is angle B. So it will be denoted by H. So now let us define the trigonometric ratios for angle A. First of all sin A is equal to P by H that is perpendicular by hypotenuse which will be equal to BC upon AC. Now cos A is equal to V by H that is base upon hypotenuse so it will be AB upon AC. Now tan A is equal to P upon B that is perpendicular upon base so this will be BC upon AB. Now cosecant A is 1 upon sin A so this will be H upon P that is hypotenuse upon perpendicular that will be AC upon BC. Also secant A is 1 upon cose so this will be H upon B that is hypotenuse upon base which will be AC upon AB. And lastly cot A is 1 upon tan A so this will be B upon P that is base upon perpendicular so this will be AB upon BC. Now in triangle ABC angle B is 90 degrees that means sum of angle A and angle C will be equal to 90 degrees. So this implies both angle A and angle C will be acute angles. So if any one of these trigonometric ratios of an acute angle same angle A is given then we can easily find out the remaining trigonometric ratios. Let's take one example for this suppose we are given cos A equal to 7 upon 25 and we need to find the remaining trigonometric ratios for the acute angle A. So for angle A BC is the perpendicular AB is the base and AC is the hypotenuse. Now cos A is B by H so 7 upon 25 is equal to B by H so this implies base that is B is equal to 7K and H that is hypotenuse is equal to 25K where K is any positive number. So here we have B equal to 7K and H equal to 25K and we need to find the value of perpendicular that is P. As it is a right angle triangle so to find the value of P that is perpendicular we can use the Pythagoras theorem. So by Pythagoras theorem we have P equal to square root of H square minus base that is B square and this will be equal to 25K square minus 7K square which will be equal to 24K. So we have P equal to 24K now let's find out the trigonometric ratios sin A is equal to P by H. Now the perpendicular is 24K so this will be 24K upon H that is 25K which will be equal to 24 by 25. As here K will get cancelled from the numerator and denominator. Now tan A is equal to P upon B that is perpendicular upon base so this will be equal to 24K upon 7K so this is equal to 24 upon 7. Now cosecant A is equal to 1 upon sin A so this will be equal to 25 upon 24 similarly secant A is equal to 1 upon cos A so this will be equal to 25 upon 7. And lastly cot A is equal to 1 upon tan A so this will be 7 upon 24. So here we were given one trigonometric ratio that is of cos A and we have found all the other trigonometric ratios. I hope this must be clear to you so with this we finish this session goodbye take care and have a nice day.


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All right, this is started. So last workshop, a CEO from the University of New York, she's a biometric scientist there, and she represents workshop on genomic super-signal. So, CEO, please take it away. Thank you for the introduction. Welcome to my package demo session. I know it's hard to be the last one, but thanks. And so today, I will introduce my new package, genomic super-signature, which is designed for transfer learning and efficient database search. So before I start, I just want to thank Levi and Sean for our awesome mentors and collaborators from the very beginning of this project, and Kuni for a friendly and supportive environment, and our funder. So can you see my cursor moving? Maybe not. Okay. Oh, good. Okay, so I will start. So this is an overview of today's talk. So I will start with the general introduction and go through more detail on what genomic super-signature is and what kinds of analysis you can do and finish with a quick live demo. So we were motivated to make genomic super-signature because too often, new gene expression data is analyzed by itself, even though there are large public database on previous studies. So there have been attempts to use the existing database, but some are limited because they are often hard to use, like require extensive bioinformatics knowledge or requires heavy computing in case where when you need to train your own model or work only in a specific data type, such as like immune cell omni or single cell omni and so on. So we aim to improve these shortcomings of existing methods. So we propose a new method with two main components. So first is pre-trained model named RAP model, which is trained on large heterogeneous public data sets and our package named genomic super-signature for easy application of the model on new data. So our method is robust to batch effects, so applicable across platform and different underlying biology, which I will show in the use cases later. So overall genomic super-signature is designed to interpret gene expression profiles by comparison to published data for the current version of the model data archived in SRA and by connecting them to the relevant literature, match terms, and genesis. The potential application of our method could be like finding similar studies and data sets to your own gene expression data or find pathways associated with your sample or data sets in a form of labeling principal components or comparable analysis across data sets from different platforms, such as expression profiles from microwave and RNA-seq. Or using the continuous scores assigned by our model, we can do digit subtyping at the higher resolution. Through the transfer learning capacity of our method, we expect that we can identify or infer weak or missing signals as well. And the core value of genomic super-signature is data reuse and interoperability, and this diagram is kind of summarizing that concept. And we are focusing on making it easy to analyze new data in the context of the existing database with minimal computational resource and bioinformatics training. So explorer EDA process can be more general bioinformatics, general workflow part of like regular lab, even bad lab work potentially. That's our ultimate goal. So you can check if you want to, like I will try to describe as much as I can within the time limit, but if you want to check more detail on the algorithm of genomic super-signature, you can find it in our recent publication. So let me explain a little more about what genomic super-signature is. So this diagram shows the whole process of a lab model building. So lab represents replicable axis of variation. So the top part is a lab model building process, and the bottom part is its application on new data using genomic super-signature package. So the current version of lab model is trained on about 45,000 RNA-seq data set from RNA-seq samples from 536 studies obtained from SRA. We did a PCA and on the gene expression profiles and clustered the top pieces to build labs. The collection of labs named lab index are further annotated with match terms and gene sets. And the collection of and lab index and annotations and metadata associated with the originating studies all together are provided as a lab model to the user. So this lab model is a lab model is a pre-trained model and once user bring their own data, genomic super-signature assigns quantitative value to the input data and connects it to the existing databases and suggests interpretation shown in this blue box. So it offers associated studies and then quantified phenotype and like match terms and then enriches it sets a link to your own input data. So I briefly mentioned but lab construction process can be summarized in three steps. So first we collect the top pieces, the top principle components of the training dataset and cluster those principal components pieces based on using the hierarchical clustering use experiment correlation. And then average those pieces in the each each cluster and that average loading is named RAP. So here in this example, this is one example of RAP 221 and this and this RAP 221 is built from PC2 of the study ERP 01679N8 PC9 of this study, PC3 of this study. So this is like how RAP is constructed and the variance explained by these pieces are used later to weight the contribution of each study during RAP annotation. So I will explain little more on that next slide and RAP can be compared to principal components of new dataset which require validation process and I will explain that also in a few slides as well. So I mentioned that RAP index is annotated and then for the current model it's annotated with both match terms and genesis. So for match term annotation, first we collect all the match terms assigned to the studies used to build RAP index and each term is reverse weighted by the frequency. That means if term a certain match term is show up more frequently in the training dataset they are penalized. In the that's why the reason we did is because we want to find something specific to the dataset so they and then they are further weighted by the variance explained by PC. I mentioned the previous slide and finally we added additional additional modification available so certain match terms can be filtered out with the customizable drop list. So at the end RAPs are annotated with match terms specific to the given RAP. So for genes set annotation we use the pre-ranked gen list from each RAP so based on their the average loadings and each pathways with the minimum Q value are stored in RAP model and they are ranked by normalized enriched scores. So these two are the main annotation of RAPs and so RAP model is a collection of RAP index and then each annotation so match term and then the genes set and the metadata associated with the training datasets themselves. So RAP model inherits summarized experimental object and the RAP index which is a gen by RAPs matrix is stored in the essay slot and information on the training datasets is stored in the column data and training data slots. So this is how RAP model looks like so for example the current RAP model has like almost 14,000 gen and then 4764 RAPs in it and the metadata that's associated with the RAP model building process so like what version is it how many cluster each cluster size the gen set used to annotate and so on where RAP index is in the essay slot and then see column data has the gen set enriched gen set and then training data information is also stored here in the training datasets slot. So this is RAP and so this diagram is explaining how the validation process works so input from users so here colored in gray is gen by samples matrix so genomic super signature calculate the Pearson correlation between top eight pieces so here pieces of the input data and RAPs and we named this process this correlation coefficient as valid as validation score. The validation score represents the relevance between RAP and new data so all these process colored in green here from the PCA of the input data till the validation process are done by the package so users just need to plug in the their gen by samples matrix and then the package will handle the rest and the package further provide the functionality is to extract information associated with the validated RAP such as literature raw data gen sets and match terms and so on. Okay DSA is here I just summarized the key terms and I explained the RAP RAP index RAP model validation score and the sample score I didn't go through that much but it is actually my matrix multiplication result between the input data and RAP index so that validation is input data as top PC and the RAP and the score sample score is just input data and the RAP and then this I will show how this sample score can be used to use for transfer learning in the benchmark example later so this is obviously I'm in pretty good time so uh so this is a general as a background I think it should be very enough to understand this like next section of like example use cases and a couple of benchmarking example uh the benchmarking example will be on digit sub typing and transfer learning through RAPs so this first example show that is example is applying RAP model on TCGA data sets for database search so Panner uh so first step is to find the RAP that's relevant to your study to your data set so the most straightforward way is using validate function so Panner A and B here are both from valid validation function so this uh and then these are validation results and then displayed in a hit map style which is part of the functionality as well and each column represents each uh different specific RAPs and in Panner A we apply RAP model on five different cancer types and you see that the RAP 221 shows the strong and very specific validation score for breast cancer so I did this validation omni on the breast cancer again which is the Panner B and then Panner B is the validation result of breast cancer omni where the top panel is showing the average silhouette width of the RAP which could be used as a guide to identify the right RAP for your data set but I will not focus that much on today that there are more deeper use usage instruction but so so from validation process we it seems like RAP 221 is the right RAP to analyze breast TCGA breast cancer data set so once you identify the RAP of your interest you can instantly print out associated match terms in the word cloud which is shown here in the Panner C and the relevant studies in Panner D and in which pathways in the Panner E so here we see that match match term match cloud shows the breast as one of the most representative term and then three relevant studies are or on breast cancer and the top in which pathways are or breast cancer associated and these are I will do this in the like I will reproduce this figure in the live demo but and show how quickly we can do this and the next the other use case is interpret PCA results so for this example we I use the immune subset data EMTAP 2452 so this is the immune data set and genomic super signature and extract the enriching sets of the RAP your RAP that shows the highest validation score for the input data as principal component so we currently require at least eight samples for this validation process and then this annotate PC function is identify the RAP that's most highly closely related link to the top eight RAP so PC one is linked to for example here PC one is RAP 23 PC 2 RAP 1552 PC 3 and RAP 1387 and then extract the in which in which pathway link to those RAPs so so and we can extract the image pathway for one PC or we can extract multiple PC image pathway from of the multiple pieces as well and then the I think one of the cool part is you can just you can draw a PCA plot along with the image pathways in the table so this just remember we will I will show how to reproduce this figure in the live demo session as well and so RAPS represents biological features so so we can use genomic super signature beyond the database search is the search so in the next two slides I will show benchmarking example on digits subtyping and transfer learning both are kind of using taking advantage of like RAP representing certain specific biological feature so in this first example here we benchmark the RAP model against the digit specific model and apply the both models on the same test digits dataset which is used the same dataset same digits used for digit specific model so in other words I will make so the digit specific model was trained on the colon cancer dataset and tested on colon cancer cancer datasets but RAP model was trained on the heterogeneous dataset and tested on the colon cancer dataset so the other thing you need to know remember is there the training datasets are quite different so from the training datasets are from the different platforms so digit specific model is using the microarray dataset and majority of test datasets are microarray dataset and genomic super signature is the training dataset it's from RNA-seq and then only one of the one out of ten test dataset was the RNA-seq dataset and then we we compare their performance on separating discrete subtypes labeled here with the different colors and the results you can see even though the training datasets were completely different both platformized and like underlying biology wise our model shows comparable performance to the digit specific model and because RAP model was trained on heterogeneous datasets we expect that it has it can be used for other digits subtyping meaning there is RAP that represents a biological feature to subtyping other digits other digits not just colon cancer so we think uh RAP uh RAP model and genomic super signature can be more versatile and the second example benchmark example is transfer learning so these two scanner plots are from two independent datasets so first using the using the available metadata which is a new trophy account of dataset one we identify the RAP 1551 as the one that's explaining this metadata which is new trophy account feature and we apply this RAP to the dataset two which is completely unrelated uh unrelated to dataset one and then use the apply this RAP on RAP on dataset two to infer the new trophy account and because there is no new trophy metadata from dataset two we use like other tools to estimate the new trophy account of dataset two and then compare and compare that to the RAP assigned score so this here the the score we are using plotted on the x-axis of the x-axis is the sample score I mentioned in the summary terms table so we confirm that RAP 1551 can explain the same phenotype the new trophy account at new trophy account phenotype of dataset two so this means one RAP can explain a specific phenotype across two distinct datasets so this use case suggests that genomic super signature can be used to infer missing data or identify weak and underrepresented biological signals using the existing studies so this is okay I am going very fast so in conclusion so genomic super signature uh demonstrate very efficient and coherent database search and robustness to batch effects and transfer learning capacity and we think the major improvement relative to the existing approaches are first very increased usability through pre-computed model and package and uh versatility by not being limited to any specific biology and applicable across different platforms and the modularity which I hear here I mean like annotation is separated from model building and scalability that's uh I'm trying to uh I mean like fast training procedure those those last two fact two parts are not directly linked to the users but the these two feature together make it very easy to expand the RAP model so it can be it can affect the user at the end by providing more different model collection of models so that's actually kind of like linked to our future direction because one of the main future plan is expanding RAP model to the different training datasets such as single-cell data like different species and microbiome and potentially develop a tool to crosstalk between RAP models so kind of my dream word is you plug in for example mice data set and then can learn from learn relate learn from like relevant like human study and clm study and so on like without much difficulty or learning a lot of like bioinformatics tools or having like huge computer resources in your hand and we also plan to add more annotations like different gene sets and additional metadata of originating studies so that part is related to modularity of the model building process that we can just expand in a more different dimension and so at last more information is available from our paper package and use case site listed here i think i put the all the information and link in the in the bio the at least the web website i think you can access that and then i will do the quick demo so just like for the for input preparation just there are like a few simple requirements so first the gene expression profile from both microwave and RNA can be used as an input so it become clear based on the our use case example earlier and it can be provided as an as an object containing gene by sample matrix so it's including expressions that summarize the experiment or just simple matrix and the this tool performs the best when the input follows a normal distribution so that's like a little bit of preprocessing we are we are asking and the gene should be denoted by gene symbol and i mentioned in the at the beginning but for data set level validation we ask to have have your input at least a samples and this already run the the vignette is here you can check and i will go to the picture oh oh oh i think i did something wrong okay i will share again yeah i'm looking at other screen now so can you see my screen right now okay okay so this vignette is actually i so you go workshop in full there and then when go to my workshop section and the source part is i have the link paper bio conductor package side or the use cases use case size so which this page includes everything or the code and then code to reproduce figures in the paper and oops and workshop vignette that i'm gonna run right now and workshop slide is over over there as well so let's go through this so i have a uh i just plug in new dimensionality reduction function in the so it can now tool can handle the single cell so i will if you want to try single cell i will you i will recommend to use the kit of version of the package but for now see you can please make it full screen and maybe oh oh this is okay sorry about that let's see full screen and then make it oh it's now great thank you so so the right now the there are two there are two lab models available they are stored in stored in google cloud bucket and then i provide the you can download directly using wget but i put the get model function within genomic super signature and then this is the not requestor page so there is no charge on that so you just you can just run this so i just put try to check how long it take it usually take a few seconds each model is a little less than 500 megabyte but you can download very quickly and so your model is there right now rap model and then rap model here is annotated with ginses let's see what ginses so the rap model is annotated with three priors from flyer package so this is mostly about the blood uh blood cell blood related ginses and the rap model c2 is mcdbc2 version 7.1 that's what how what these models are annotated so except on notation the ginset annotation part the other part is identica so i decide to use for the uh so this is decide to use uh b-cell viper some uh so this uh data for the database or gene example so i just will do this sample data and then this is the validation function so validation there is other option you can adjust but it's pretty much like you don't most of case you don't really need to worry about it and so validate and then the so you so validate you put your input data set and rap model and that's take about less than a second and then you do just uh dude we have the hit map table function so it visualize the validation result in the hit map format so that's that's you can how you can extract the uh fine identity this is the process of identifying relative relevant rap and then so this one i just this is the other function that you can collect just the index of the top validated reps and i actually i can just run this but i run this so so at the beginning little bit of you need to put a little bit of effort to find the rap that's representing your study so i did like i how i did it i did uh check the match term word cloud and i think the fifth validation validated index which is uh uh rap 1139 is the one representing i will just do this representing the input data set most best so based on like yeah lymphocytes t cell and then like c28 antigen or these like kind of represent this rap is like the more relevant to the input data set and once you get that once you identify the target rap you can now subset in richard pathways using the subset in richard pathways function and then put rap model and then index you want to check and then find the studies in this cluster so find the studies that's relevant to this rap so find studies in cluster you put rap model and index if you don't put study title don't ask study title by default it just give the study name and then what pc is coming uh coming from that study and then variance explained by that pc but if you put study title it gives actually what study is involved and then you can see here it's pretty much very well uh explain the input data so i think the this is different from just a blasting format or other database search is because it's we are now just how you extract this information is purely just using your data set just expression data itself is direct use so i think this minimized the like nitpick uh the cherry picking or like put your bias in the searching process so i think that way it's beneficiary and then other accessory function like you can just get rap info and then put rap model and then index you want to check and then it got give me give the information on the rap itself or you can do the study info and then put rap model and then put whatever study name study you want to check and then it shows that what is the title of that study and then the number of sample in the study and then the raps that's where those top raps are contributed contributed so it's uh where uh yeah contributing and so i want to uh reproduce the some of the figures in the slide so slide 17 was the tcj data set analysis for quick database search and i will reproduce that here and the one thing i just will note quickly is here i put this file data file in the google cloud bucket again because just like to make this vignette a self-stand but the thing uh the one thing is i use the end build package i think it's martin mentioned briefly and i can't remember who else but this time but the end build package is helping uh end build package has a functionality that you can directly talk to the google cloud bucket so in uh in the r-session without using gsutil in the terminal so i use that to load this data set and then this data set is just built from like tcj data set and then the code to build it is also available in my use case pack uh use case page so i load this data set which is uh list object so so it has like five different tcj data set and then for now i will just do the try to reproduce panel b and then the validate again i did the validate and just hit map and then it gives the figure i showed you earlier so rap221 is the one of the height uh validation score and then draw world cloud rap model to 21 and it gives you the world cloud and then find the studies in cluster rap model someone say something uh it's really brook like cannot understand it was sometimes you can continue can you type and then i can read maybe oh okay do you do i have a model of microwave data itself no i do not have a microwave data yet but that's definitely one thing that can go quickly and then yeah send the message that what kind of model you want and i will i'm i want to make something that can be useful to other people so yeah uh thanks for the question yeah our next one is a microwave rap model so and so yeah so back to the stem part so i can find the studies relevant study i can find uh uh image pathways so this i just uh reproduced my paper's figure too and so the next one is i want to show you is the slide 18 which is the pca plot with the image pathway in it so again i just make this data set available in the google bucket and then i use uh just you just just you till pipe is the ambil function i use that to load that into my session and uh load data and then just just like name just change the color to the make the raw name so so this is like 49 samples and then this data set has like genes raw is gene in the gene symbol and then the color is the samples and then again i will do validation for for uh uh okay i'm not sure what this is but i think it's letting me do proceeds i'll just ignore for now uh so on a tape uh on a tape pc2 and then on a pc123 so that's it and then for the example i had uh i color coded colored the cell type and which is just one of the available metadata for this data set and i decide i will add that i mean you can actually uh have plot without it which will show it's not required input so you will just have this but if you put if you have the uh cell type annotation you can just add that to here and then here pc2 is monocyte and then pc3 seems like some kind of translation ribosome translation and so on so pc2 seems more straightforward but monocyte so that's separating but yeah like this is like our tool is not designed for a hypothesis testing but definitely hypothesis hypothesis building and then eda tool so this can i think this with our tool put you in a better spot to do the for the following following this study and yep i think this is all the example i have for today and hope you enjoy and any question i will take thank you let's see okay question from my audience yeah microwave user data can be used yeah microwave data can be used as input data yeah actually that one of the the colon cancer subtyping that was a microwave data the test data said was microwave data so yes i actually have one so oftentimes when you work with the data from multiple donors the most variation comes from the inter individual variation between your donors and this can dominate the first two principal components in your data while your experiment of factor or your uh yeah factor of interest can be quite suppressed and can your methods deal with this situation and filter out those high variation that is not so interesting for you and just focus on the variation of interest uh so you're let me make sure i understand so you're talking about something like individual differences like wouldn't that noise will interfere or not like can i remove that kind of noise from our analysis but yeah i wouldn't call it noise but yeah yeah yes i think so i think i for that kind of case i will state as something like so so your sample is like a different patient like the same disease patient with same disease but so i like okay let's say you have a data set with 10 donors five diseases and five healthy but your main variation main source of variation is the inter individual differences and not the disease so let's say the disease variation is like dc5 or dc9 in your i have that i should test i haven't tested that kind of samples but my expectation is i think once you do that you will have like raps that's like rank top ranked but it's kind of scored differently so like something that's like more common and then like common like i will say that's something like you will have a signature that's for like even though it's weaker something like disease per individual versus healthy individual healthy individual the signature for those two different groups and then potentially like individual specific raps will show up for the individual data sets i think both will appear but how they will rank in your result can vary depending on how strong the individual differences versus the after a common disease related features so on so i think both will i think in some sense i think those signals will be dissected from separated using our method by pulling by validating pulling different raps so that's what i expect but yeah i haven't okay thank you more online questions there was one just wondering i'm just coming up to this you can hear me i'm just wondering quick question on the annotation of the raps so you've done the pca's on all the different data sets and then you have to annotate the raps and you're doing it by pre-ranked gsa or by mesh terms um was there much value from the mesh terms or was it primarily from the gsa like when you were actually looking at those terms where did the what were the terms that were most use most useful so you are asking what will when will i use mesh terms over no no no so so each principal component you're clustering the principal components based on person correlation from what i understand but let me know if i'm gotten this wrong and then you're annotating those components or the centroid of those components based on gene set enrichment analysis on a mesh terms no no mesh term annotation and gene set of enrichment is completely separate module of annotation oh so you either annotate with one or the other but not both is it no they are annotated given rap is annotated by both mesh term and then the uh gene set enrichment analysis yeah one single rap is annotated by both of them two okay following question yes so so i some from the stuff we've we've done in the past i found that the mesh terms were very crude and often didn't add actually any additional they added very little value so i'm just wondering whether because your approach was quite different it wasn't what we've done i was just wondering whether you were able to get value from the mesh terms or whether they were so they did whether they added value or not that's literally what i'm just wondering is whether the the mesh terms you spoke yeah so for me uh because i did a bunch of like waiting process so in some sense it's like so it's mesh this my mesh term collection is not just like a single study but like it's a collection of studies and then like they are already already also weighted by like different studies contribution to the given rap so it gave me better quicker better a little crude off than gene set but quicker and then better glimpse of the rap what those specific rap is representing so in that sense i will use that uh uh mesh term more for like at the beginning like search for the uh your rap of interest so it's that's what i will say but yeah i mean oh no okay okay glad you got more you've searched for them we did by the sun's word yeah i just think yeah all right we are out of time thank you see you in again


Okay, so let's try this one. But instead of reacting two moles of oxygen, let's react five moles of oxygen. Okay? See the energy that we get from reacting five moles of oxygen. And, of course, I'm gonna need my calculator to do this. This is my typical first problem experience that we're doing for my calculator. So, what does this reaction tell us? Well, this reaction is called the thermodynamic reaction equation. Okay? Because it's got some thermodynamic data. And what it's telling us here is that one of the products of this reaction is 802 kilojoules of energy. So, 802 kilojoules of energy is being released. You can think of it like the change in e is negative 802 kilojoules. Okay? Why is it negative? Because it was a product, right? And if it's a product, that means it's being released. Is everybody okay with that? Okay. So, what did we say? Instead of two moles of oxygen reacting, we've got five moles, right? 5.00, so we can have three signals. Okay? So, what is the change in energy if we've got five moles of oxygen? Well, we've got this thermodynamic data that gives us this conversion factor. Okay? Remember, stoichiometric relationships for chemical equations, balanced chemical equations. You guys recall that, right? So, in this case, we've got a stoichiometric relationship of two moles of oxygen to negative 802 kilojoules of energy. Is everybody okay with that? So, that's a conversion factor. So, effectively, what we can say is that if we want to know the energy of five moles of oxygen, well, 5.00 moles o2, moles o2 on the bottom, of course, with 802 kilojoules of energy. So, now, just five times negative o2 divided by 2. So, well, three signals, negative 2.00 times 10 to the 1, 2, 3 kilojoules of energy. Is everybody okay with that? Yes. Any questions on that one? Makes sense. Can we kill it?


तो भी परिज़़ी आपना उपने नापाकता, तो बी अम्एखो तेसक थाद्गाँ बीशिस्गीग थाद्गीडेगोि से लिए खॉद concludाए थे लिए कि आपने खोग भी ढ़़ी परिज़ीडेगोग देखेगोग से नहीं, डरदाग लग आपनोयों फिरा के सकति आपने � exceptance region for the null hypothesis and we say that we keep 0.05% probability to reject it i.e. this is called rejection region which is on the tails and is in the middle of acceptance region what we do is we calculate probability and we are 95% sure that this null hypothesis is our true acceptance for null hypothesis and if our value comes in this tail then we say that we cannot accept our null hypothesis in fact our research hypothesis is that is true rather than the null hypothesis let's do an example a coin is tossed 20 times so n is 20 landing on head more than 6 times 20 times a coin is tossed and it landed on head more than 6 times so perform a hypothesis test at alpha 0.05% significance level to see if the coin is biased you have given the data you have tossed a coin and 6 times your head now you have to make your hypothesis, null hypothesis is always our hypothesis of no difference let's start the research with the null hypothesis where we give a neutral statement that there is no difference between x1 and x2 or coin is not biased, coin is fair or whatever so it's a neutral statement, a null hypothesis and again we make our research hypothesis which we say that coin is biased in favor of tails because you have said that there are more tails to test this hypothesis, similarly we make our research hypothesis null hypothesis or alternative hypothesis and to test this hypothesis we apply any statistical test it can be z test or t test or we are testing the binomial distribution so your question is that if the coin is fair it means that your value will come in this area that is your probability value p value which you calculate should be less than 0.05 if our probability value is less than 0.05 then our null hypothesis will be rejected null hypothesis will be rejected and if our probability calculated value falls in this area so this means that our null hypothesis is correct we will fail to reject the null hypothesis so let's calculate the probability and see where it is lying so again information is given that you have given the coin as 20n and you have given p and q how much will be p of course if you are tossing the coin as 1 by 2 and q will also be 1 by 2 n is 20 p is 1 by 2 and q is 1 by 2 first of all you have to calculate mean mean is equal to np which is equal to 20 multiplied by 1 by 2 which is equal to 10 after this you have to calculate standard deviation which is equal to npq under root which is equal to 20 multiplied by 1 by 2 multiplied by 1 by 2 under root which is equal to you can calculate it as 2.24 now you have the mean and standard deviation we should have the value of x to calculate z what it has said is landing on head more than 6 times so more than 6 means that again I have to draw a distribution here or more than 6 till you have not calculated mean you cannot draw an area in it first you have to calculate mean which is equal to 10 so more than 6 means that 6 will land on this side and more than 6 means that we have to find out all these areas for this 6 I have to find out the value of z so how will I find out the value of z for this 6 so I will say 6.5 will continue this because it is your x so I have told you to continue this we will write mean divided by standard deviation which we have drawn 2.24 plug in the values solve it z value of 1.56 next what we will do area find out you will look up in the table 1.56 corresponding area see how much it is we have found out the area so the area which we have drawn that is I have double checked in the table which is equal to this area is 0.4406 now what we have to see we have to do testing hypothesis and we have said that if these tails have p value probability this means that our null hypothesis will reject but if our value comes in between this means that our null hypothesis will be accepted instead of looking at the value of z we can find out tail value this tail value we can find out instead of this so if we want to find out the value of this tail this is 0.5 by the way we can do it by plus but already column C it has given the value of your tail which is equal to 0.0594 this is the tail value you can also get the tail value which is equal to 0.5 or 0.4406 which is equal to 0.9406 and subtract it from 1 so your value will come so if I subtract 0.9406 from 1 then this value will come 0.0594 I will write it clearly so that you can understand so it is 0.0594 which is this so what we have to calculate if we say that p value if it is smaller than 0.05 then null hypothesis will be rejected this is what we have written but what is our p value our p value is p is equal to 0.0594 this one so it is not smaller rather p is greater than 0.05 if this is the case that your calculated probability value is greater than 0.05 then you will fail to reject the null hypothesis so the conclusion we will take in hypothesis testing that our null hypothesis we are not rejecting it and we will say that the coin is not biased the coin is fair but if this p value is smaller then we will definitely say that the coin is biased so similarly in the binomial distribution there are many more in our everyday life in our social issues when you will conduct a research when you think that your outcome variable is categorical there are only two possible outcomes and you can make it yourself you can make any continuous variable to be binomial by bringing that variable into two categories only if you have a running score on anxiety if you have a score on the stats then you can pass if you have another experiment then you can bring it into two categories and find out its mean and standard deviation not only you can estimate the population parameter you can also find out the probability and you can also do the testing hypothesis that you can do any hypothesis through binomial test and if our calculated value p value of 0.05 will be smaller then we will reject our null hypothesis


Welcome to the drum history podcast. I'm your host Bar van der Zee and today I'm joined by Don Bennett the founder of Don Bennett drum studio and the current owner operator of Don Bennett's drum vault Don Welcome to the show Bart. Thank you for having me. Sure. This is you've been on my list for quite some time. You have I mean your collection is just Unbelievable I guess we can put it as you are a collector of Very famous drum sets. I mean celebrity drums if you will these are like the buddy rich drum sets These are the ringo drum sets. These are just like the the amazing drums that everyone drools over Thank you. It's it has been It's been really fun and really rewarding Doing this I don't know how I ever really ended up here, but Yeah, yeah, it's been a blast Well, I assume before this you were a collector of drums. Just like you know, like anyone else who collects drums But this is next level stuff. So I'd love to know maybe And you could even do it by like series of I got this then I got this then I got this How did you get into this? What were some early milestones that really kicked this thing off? Um, yeah Well, I would say this like just about anything started with a extreme interest in this kind of thing like uh so You know, I just very interested in what drums my My favorite drummers used. Yeah, and so, you know as Some people might just hear the music and that's good enough But you know like a lot of geeks, you know, it was I was really curious about you know, what really everybody in the whole band was was playing and um, like I'm sure a lot of people could relate to I would You know going to a concert and getting their hours ahead of time and just looking at the empty stage Was thrilling for me and you know checking out the drum set and what kind of amps and microphones and all that kind of stuff that was You know, I didn't have any problem hanging around for three hours before the show Because you know that was just showing itself and I think if you talk to A lot of geeks they can relate to that Very much. Sure. So that's it just started really with a very genuine interest and and Finding that kind of stuff just super super cool um If there was a Pivotal moment it would have been at A t-rex concert when I was probably about ninth grade that would have been early seven days and uh I caught a drum stick that the drummer Tossed out bill legend And you know, I guess anybody would think that was cool. But you know, I was just like Mesmerized with it. It's like here's the stick That just propelled This entire show that I just watched that was just mind blowing I mean, you know, so there's a lot of significance to me that In that drumstick, you know, I'm sure a lot of people that would have been hey Here's a cool souvenir from that show and life goes on for me.   Yeah, I guess it it did It was It was very very significant to me And from there, you know, I was always like I said, I'd always been interested in this kind of stuff And it went on from there. And so once I had Opened a drum shop and I was starting to you know Deal in lots more drums Um I I think the first famous drummer I ever Encountered was Kenny Aronoff who at the time played with John Mellencamp Who was since become one of my closest friends But we were you know, he was looking for something and we ended up trading Some drums and so, you know instead of paying for it He gave me You know instead of trade or instead of Buying the drum that he was looking for He had some drums of his that he wasn't using anymore and we swapped and And for me it was like, oh my god, I know This is a snare drum that Kenny Aronoff used on all these John Mellencamp records. Yeah, and it was like This is amazing. And so Not, you know, not only was he one of my favorite drummers, but this is his drum. So again It was there's a lot of significance to To that drum For me Yeah, god, there's there's something I'm right there with you where there's something just so special About that piece of gear that it's just it has its own history and its own life and uh I had my brother played in a band with a guy who I don't know if this was actually the truth It looked like it, but he he had a dw snare and you could probably verify better than anyone else. It was it was apparently um I think joey kramer used it in when he was it was from wanes world two when aro smith Okay played In the movie is what the claim was so I don't know if that was true. Um, I think it was a dw I can't exactly remember but um Anyway, here just for me seeing that it was like That's unbelievable That drum was there. I mean It's so cool. Oh, yeah. I mean and see that's kind of where You know You fall on one side of the line. I mean to somebody would say oh Neat, that's a drum. I was in that movie. Yeah Into someone else like yourself or to me. It's like, oh my god That's the drum that was in that scene and he you get yeah, so they're just A lot of significance that you attach to it. And you know at first I thought that I was the only person who really cared about that kind of stuff but then as Things go on and you have more relationships and stuff. I see there's A lot of people that Find this stuff really interesting Yeah, absolutely a lot of Which we'll we'll talk about this later But a lot of like and I've found this out personally is that a lot of the collecting of this is from other drummers Who idolize these guys who idolize the drum sets of famous drummers who have come Before them, um, which that's a whole part of the conversation we'll have but Your collection has just I mean It is just blown up obviously from catching a drum stick when you were in ninth grade. Um, so Like things have things have gotten serious. So Mate, what are some of your favorites?  What's some of your, you know, the really really cool stuff And i'm on your website and let me let me mention this too. People can go to don Benet.com D O N N B E N N E T T.com and see everything and um, and it's all there. So yeah, what's some really cool stuff you have going on right now Let's see Um, I get asked that a lot, you know, it's like saying, you know, what's your favorite song? Yeah and It changes all the time But I know what would have to always be up there at the top of the Of the list would be A symbol a china symbol a u-fit the china symbol that charlie watz gave me. Oh, yeah um That's awesome, you know, that's I mean Yeah, talk about cool. Um, that's pretty darn cool. That's pretty pretty cool Let's see. I think the uh I have a Ringo star Black oyster pearl ledwig 1963 drum set. You know, that was not Ringo's set, but it is Literally 100 percent Exactly identical to Ringo's first beatle set And so I mean That's Pretty cool. Yeah in and of itself But for me what really Got me into collecting drums in the first place was trying to find a A beatle set, you know, I thought I was up the Beatles and Ringo were really cool And I thought it'd be so cool to have a a set Just like Ringo's But I never knew all the specific details, you know, the of What was unique about Ringo's set and you know, so that led to all kinds of pouring over pictures and You know, but back then it was You know magazines and books and just talking to other drum geeks But So this is a set I just got about a year ago And you know in the course of Hunting for a Ringo set Hey, man, I've had uh, I couldn't tell you I've probably had 30 or 40 of them In my life And they've come and gone and every every time I sell one. I think well I'll sell this one to get a better one and That hopefully a better one shows up. But this this one Really? You probably couldn't get any better. Yeah, it's uh It's made within a couple of months of of when Ringo's first set was made It has the right snare. I mean the I mean I could get into the whole boring story, but there is The snare that Ringo used with the Beatles Is a Ludwig black or oyster jazz festival? Yeah, which they've made, you know thousands of but the particular one he used In the particular configuration that he used is extremely rare. There's only like a small handful maybe 10 of those known in the world And uh This set has has one of those snares Well, so anyway, it's it's uh as far as a Ringo star collectible drum set goes There's many many people who are Trying to get a Ringo star drum set and this is in my entire life in what 40 some years of searching for one of those is hands down the The best one I've ever seen and I I don't see how it could get any better So that would definitely have to be up there um Yeah, they had there's that's gary astrid has been on the show who I'm sure you know very well and Yes, the description his his talking about you know the on stage ones and I forget that it was the owner of a football team I think I forget who actually is buying up some of that stuff Yeah, oh my god and the amount of money that is going into that is just it's it's astronomical. Um Yes And yeah, gary, I mean I won't bore you with all the specific details and he probably talked about it But yeah, gary gary is a guy who sort of has Brought all of this Information all these details to light. He's the one who did the deep research and Just even made people aware of The specific little details that were on ringo sets that that make them Very unique basically You know in very short is You know so ringo got his drums Right before they were on the ed sullivan show And once they were on the ed sullivan show Then Beatle mania happened And Ludwig went from you know, I think their their orders multiplied by six overnight and so They started making black oyster drums like you know by the hundreds thousands But by the time beatle mania had hit they had changed the configuration of that snare So that all those drums the thousands of those black oyster drums They were making after beatle mania hit after they were on the ed sullivan show They are all a little bit different from Ringo's actual snare. So that's why That particular drum is So rare Yeah, I know we've the discussion of ringo. There's been a fair amount on the show where that that day After the ed sullivan show where I think B3 was talking about it on here where they were getting calls saying I want to I want a ringo kit and the people on the other end of the phone were going What's a ringo kit like they didn't know the the operators didn't Right know yet man, so looking just There's so much but just looking at your current inventory on on your website I mean you have joey kramer's aerosmith set from 2003. There's a top hat and cane kit. There is three top hat and cane So those are some of the rarest drums in the world and you have three of them I mean that kind of blows my mind Oh, if you if if you want to really take it to the next level, um, I think I've had Eight of those sets Um, oh my god. All right, so pause there. Let me ask you. So let's let's use the top hat and cane You know as an example and you don't need to give away your your secrets here, but Like Are these where people are coming to you because you're you're on on a grand grand grand level You're like the guy who puts an ad in the paper and says I buy drums or on craigslist looking for drums obviously you're that times a million but Are people typically coming to you with let's say top hat and cane kits or Yes, or okay Now here's where it gets very interesting I I've never Like sought out a top hat and cane set They have all come to me and why You tell me I wish I it's like, uh, I think we're talking about before we started I don't get how this works, but I know it does work and I don't question it, but um I don't yeah, I I mean, yeah, obviously, you know, I have a fairly high profile and I've been doing this for Yikes about 40 years But just I mean the way stuff Comes out of the woodwork and Lands in my lap Or just I mean I there's probably hundreds of stories. I could tell you of just the bizarre set of Circumstances that lead some person out there to me There and and ends up with me acquiring some amazing drum I mean it just happens over and over and over And man, I really wish there was a secret or a formula or But there isn't and it just it just keeps happening And I call it drum karma totally But certainly I mean, you know There's some obvious logical stuff that you know, I do have I've been doing it for a long time and I do have a certain high profile and um You know on I guess if there's anything that I would say is just like I always try and treat people fairly and I definitely and I've never screwed anybody over and I think in general I've got a good reputation as an honest person and that that you know, I will I will conduct myself fairly and And You know, so that that goes a long way. I mean This kind of business requires a lot of trust and if People feel like they can trust you then I think If I mean if so if there's any secret or formula, I guess that would be it just Yeah You know just being honest with people You know honesty is the best policy is kind of there There is a reason that that is an expression Because it has it has proven itself You know for generations Definitely and it's it is that's very true now are do you find yourself? I guess this is a two-part question Uh part one being are you yourself and I'll ask both and we can go into it part one being Are you yourself kind of a history nerd with all of this being do you Know the whole background. I'm assuming it yes on like the top hat and cane You could probably tell us everything about it And then part two is how do I want to lead into how do you authenticate these drum sets to make sure they're Real and I feel like they're kind of you know, they kind of go hand in hand a little bit so Question one. Are you are you a big history nerd? um Not as much as you would think yes, I am and I I do find it fascinating but Yeah, you know there are people who are much more knowledgeable about this stuff than I am and I guess I can only commit so much stuff to to memory. It is fun. It is I mean fortunately, you know Tracing down the history of something is a lot of fun to me and you know, because I end up spending a lot of time doing that um Yeah, my history nerd Not really. I'm at it. I'm compared, you know, I'm really my I'm compelled to trace the history because It's necessary sure And but you know, there's I mean believe me there are people Who know all the nuts and bolts? Yeah far far far better than I do I think I've sort of fallen into that I am a big history nerd and obviously I love this and I do this show but there's times where I'll From 35 episodes ago. I'll forget something completely and um I think there's specialists in every category Obviously where a guy like you Who has so many different? things going on But I'm sure you're friends with lots of people obviously who can who can help you and say oh that um You know dampening system is wrong on that tom or something like that. Um Correct. Yeah, and so, you know, um Before the internet tracing history On On the drum or or you know, whatever You know that usually involved a lot of phone calls And that's what I would do. I mean, I guess listen, what did I start this? I mean Yeah, about 40 years ago. So I'm gonna start I mean There were phone calls and literally letters which seem so archaic now Um But Yeah, that's how that You know would happen and and I mean just tracing down somebody's address or somebody's phone number You know that can be a project in love itself. Of course. Sure. So so doing the kind of detective work like that um Was always just kind of fun and hey, you know in the in the process I get to have a phone call with somebody like Hal Blaine or Yeah, or you know, whomever. I mean that's That's pretty fun for me. Well, you you literally Read my mind because I'm on the site now looking at Hal Blaine's 1980s pearl set All right, so on to the authentication Side of things I'm assuming that like if you're playing and obviously Hal Blaine has passed away But if you're playing like you said earlier Kenny Aranoff, um, you you get some drums in That are Kenny Aranoff's drums if he didn't give them to you, obviously, that's kind of an authentication right there How do you go about authenticating something like that? Do you try and get a hold of Kenny? Do you call him personally and ask are these your drums? You know, um All of the above and I just sort of start with What I what I know and kind of go from there Um, yeah, now now I've sort of developed a network of friends over many years that I mean Pretty much Any drummer you could think of I know somebody who knows them Uh, or can Or can corn knows their sister or knows how to get a hold of them. Sure. Um And again before, you know pre-internet, you know, that was a lot more complicated. Um, I mean You know digging around on the internet I mean a lot of people are very accessible. I mean you can go to facebook and boom. There's the guy's facebook. Yeah, really but Yeah, so I think many years of lots of relationships Have Served me well. So pretty much find anybody Then again, fortunately from having gone just making it a priority to treat people Fairly and nicely, you know, once I do contact somebody chances are They may know who I am and if either either they'll know that I'm legit or With a little poking around on there and they'll find out that I'm legit.  That's not the case for everyone else in the world as we all know Have you had any instances where you get something or you come across something and it turns out it isn't what They said it is. I'm sure in your 40 years. You have to come across some Some fakes or something like that. Any experiences like that? Uh, yeah. Yeah, um And I'll give you two examples one. We were just talking about that ringo snare, right? Yeah So recently I had a guy call me who uh said that he had two of those snare drums and So, you know, he he wanted to sell them and I was interested in buying them, but there are a lot of money and So I asked if he would send them to me on spec and And which he was glad to do he sent them and they were Counter fits.  Um, you know, there's a lot of this put it this way. There's a lot of drums that People have altered or something like that. Yeah pretty easy to uh to tell. I mean really like in just in Seconds usually you can You know, knowing what to look for you can tell and see if it's legit or not In this situation, um, I mean these are drums that are conceivably worth $20,000 each Yeah, exactly Somebody had gone to a great lengths to do A really good job of counterfeiting them and I mean I I was literally it I had to get out like a magnifying glass And really get into it to see that I mean They were just faked and Being trying to pass off is the real thing Which you know when when a snare drum is worth, you know, maybe Four or five six hundred bucks You know, it's probably not worth somebody's time to know go to Doing the work to To You know try and counterfeit something like that when it's potentially worth 20 grand. Yeah, then, you know, then somebody's going to be motivated to to Create a a drum that uh that they can pass off is a real thing. It it's been happening in The guitar world for decades Um, but it's just now that drums are sort of getting up into that value range where you know, it's it's for somebody's time God, I so I'd love to like we'd almost have to like You know, I feel like if I was shooting video, he'd be all blacked out and I have to modify his voice But talk to the guy who's doing this You know what I mean like Oh like an expose. Hey, you know and and so Where I left it off with him was I sent him back and I said I cannot with a hundred percent confidence verify that These are authentic And here's the reasons and You know, I sent him back and you know, it wasn't up to me to Call him a Counter-fitter because you know, it could have could have been done by he might have a person before him or whatever, but you know that would I I told him and explained the reasons and So yeah, that's taken the high road instead of saying hey by the way, I'm calling the police.  Yeah place. It's a small circle and and word of that will Get around and yeah, it's getting around right now as we talk We're putting it out there. Now. I was going to give you a second half of that answer So in the uh celebrity drum world Yeah, there's items that somebody says Was owned or used by somebody famous And then that's where I do my homework and yeah, they're I mean some you have to You just have to Give it the benefit of the doubt that if you do the homework That you can assume the person trying to to sell it just You can assume maybe they didn't do their homework and they don't know any better and you know, hey, they you know, they get a A drum and it's in a case that says gene krupa on it They they put two and together and assumed that there was gene krupa's drum Well you know, so I just I wouldn't make a judgment other than that, you know, I I'm not convinced that it is That is real but that yeah, that's happened now. There have been other ones where people have tried to Pass a drum off as being owned by somebody famous that you know, it was clear that This wasn't true and you know, they tried to sell it to somebody else who caught the same mistake and told them No, this isn't true and now they're trying to mean so yeah that that That happens too. I do I do, you know, like I said, I have a large network of people who Who are in the know on this stuff be it drum tax be it people in the drum, you know, the manufacturing Industry the other players You know, I just I usually have a way to find some way to circle back and and Authenticate something. Yeah, sure Yeah, I Maybe it's just you know on the facebook groups and stuff, but it seems like I'm assuming buddy as well But it seems like there's a lot gene krupa. There seems to be a lot of like this was gene's drums This was gene's drum. This was buddy's drums. This was buddy snare It seems like There's a lot of maybe it's because they're just so famous and synonymous with Drums it just seems like there's a lot of those and then you get the guys like brooks teggler Who are you sick brooks on it and then he shuts it down? Yes, yes, exactly Yeah, you know, and then there's also like you get on facebook and I I hate to say but there's a lot of self-proclaimed experts Who will chime in very confidently One way or the other you know pro or con and Then unfortunately people see that and they take that as a gospel And say well, you know this guy says that it's fake. Well, you know A lot of times it doesn't matter because that guy doesn't know what he's talking about Yeah, yeah, so You know that sort of opens up a whole mother can of worms in online chatter that sort of becomes Truth to a lot of people I feel like a lot of people that's one thing that I've learned from from doing this whole process of starting the show Is there's there's a lot of experts who might not be the correct expert if that makes sense. There's a lot of people who Um, who are very very knowledgeable But they might both like literally take it to their grave that they are correct and they are They have polar opposite beliefs about one thing. It's just you don't know really who to believe sometimes You know, and I think I think Anybody, you know with with a little bit of sense Can Sort of filter through what's what kind of chatter is legit and what's not But you know, there's just those guys who just Say stuff online I mean everybody's seen it that they just put it out there as you know the god-given truth That this is what it is And They are no it's just their opinion or what they think or what yes what somebody told them or Or what they thought Anyway, so yeah, yeah I just kind of try to steer clear of that kind of stuff and get as close to the source As possible and you know, I have the luxury of Many years experience like you're saying and lots of of relationships where I can I can usually get Extremely close to the source for as close as you can as close as you can get. Yeah. Yeah, definitely And you'll see you'll if you look at my uh, the listings I'll I'll describe what the connection is and You know, sometimes I don't always go into the complete detail in the actual listing, but you know somebody if somebody Uh, you know wants to know more about something Uh, you know, I I can document and I do document the whole Sort of research trail And you know that that all goes into quite frankly in when I value something I put a price on it You know the the quality of the uh, the the trail Yeah, is it plays a big part in What something's worth It's like when you buy a car and someone's documented they have other oil changes listed. It's like, oh, okay Well, this seems more legit than any other car But what you just said has segwayed perfectly into my next question where These are valuable drums. I mean, I'm looking I mean, obviously I think they're priced correctly You know the market better than anyone else, but I mean, I'm looking at the buddy rich 1968 slingerland drum set for $32,995 so $33,000 for that And you know, they range from You know under a thousand up to 100,000 like I would love to know so so this isn't like a thing where um Someone's just going out and buying this on a whim. You're not buying john densmore's uh The the kit he played um for $10,000 Just because you have a little bit of extra money. So I'd love to know about um Who are like are your is your customer base typically high-level collectors? Are they other? You know famous drummers. I mean you have to have a little bit of a little bit of money to be able to buy these things All of the above. Yeah, they are I mean they are expensive and so You know for the most part Nobody Who's just sort of like has a casual interest in something like that is going to spend that kind of money Yeah, um Unless they're really into it Right. So so most of people I deal with it are really into it and um So they okay, there are collectors and you know that the The collector world has has grown Uh a lot. I mean then in as long as I've been doing it The a number of people and the number of interest A number or in the amount of interest has has just increased exponentially And the uh, you know just like we're talking about gary astridge the uh the information about stuff has and research has increased dramatically and that also Drives up the value of something, you know once once once people understand The rarity of something based on someone's research then thus the value goes up And then you know the value goes up. So does the interest, you know people want that more Sure. So yeah, um, I quite frankly, I'm very amazed that there are you know, there are A lot of people who are Willing to pay, you know, you know very real money for Well documented, uh historical items like this, you know a lot of people Told me early on you're crazy, you know, nobody's nobody's who spent $40,000 on a drum set. I don't care who played it Um and you know, I I heard that many many many times I still do but um, you know Well one of my I I put it I rarely respond to uh People who make comments like that. You know, I see one face. I just don't even respond to them. I just don't worry about it but uh Occasionally I will dive in with my favorite comment and when somebody says you'll never sell it for that much or you're crazy Um, I just always love to say well, I'll be sure to pass that on Or to the guy who just bought it That's funny I think it's great. And I truly think that like so so Backing up to my last question too though. Would a lot of these guys who or maybe you're dealing with be like we talked earlier about um Like charlie watz you have a great relationship with him and and I can speak my my You know encounter with him, which was just amazing. We were talking about how you've got this amazing relationship.  I mean you're his one of his drum dealers. I mean that's He is just the top of the mountain. I mean, so you've got these relationships with with great guys like that um Yes, and I A date does not go by that. I don't consider myself Extremely fortunate when For those relationships, um, you know, I mean in charlie's case Uh besides just being like an extraordinarily enjoyable person who's just who's just Absolutely Just thrilling just to I mean forget if he's a rolling stone or whatever. Just he's just such a great guy I I would look forward to working with somebody that nice and that great and that That respectful In any situation and then oh, yeah, you tag in there that yes He is in the rolling stones who's you know, which are my favorite band and he's my favorite drummer and Yeah, so to have a relationship like that is just like kind of off the chart And You know, I'm what was it? My good friend Jeff chonis Who is ringos tech? He told me a long time ago after after we'd done several deals with uh with ringo and He said that uh, he said oh, I just thought I'd tell you that I was talking with ringo and he said and we were uh And we were we were talking about looking for something and goes Why don't you just call dawn in seattle? I'm like You're the Well, put it this way I said charlie was my favorite drummer, but you know how it goes that changes with the wind sure Uh ringo would be right up there with uh with charlie and depending on what day you asked me, uh, you know He would determine what answer you got on that.   I mean, that's It's you just got to get yourself out there and and find a way to to um To be involved. I mean, that's just unbelievable. That's very true. You know, I think Uh, I know I and I can probably speak for a lot of people.  I mean, I doubt anybody picks up a pair of sticks You know with the goal of becoming a famous drum dealer It just you know, it probably doesn't happen. It certainly didn't happen in my in my case Sure, but you know, you start on the path and and you you go and Stuff happens and you kind of continue to follow your path and your interests and And then you end up in this very nice place, which you know, and you're saying, you know, there's a lot of different ways of being involved in the whole drum world in very satisfying and exciting ways Yeah, and it just kind of depends on just how open you are to them and and You know, definitely being being being aware that you can't plan a lot of stuff I mean, there's there's no way I could have planned my career.  I'd never in my life had a the thought even enter my mind of Opening a drum shop, you know, it's it's not something I dreamt of or aspired to it just kind of It just kind of evolved and I certainly never had any idea at that point that I You know that I would ever find this this mega super micro niche of The drum industry of dealing with celebrity Drums and and celebrity drummers. Yeah, you know, that was no plan. It just like Practically all of a sudden I found myself With that, you know, just because I was interested in that kind of stuff and and uh sort of Poking around for that kind of stuff or yeah, or you're good at it, obviously Aware of it when I did see, you know, when I did stumble onto something that that you know This this this is a cool thing as opposed to this is just some old drum set It's like no the fact that whomever owned this and used this this makes it More special. Yeah, really and to be just being aware of that and kind of yeah led me here, but I yeah, I certainly You wouldn't buy any plan or or You know lifelong dream it just kind of I just started on the path of playing the drums and This is kind of and I just kept following what What was interesting to me and and here I am Yeah, that's so cool for people to really understand the collection and all of this again Go to don vennett.com. But um So don I want to talk a little bit about You have on your website and I've seen it on not so modern drummer. Um the 1925 Ludwig william s heart jr. Gold snare the holy grail as it's called on here 118 thousand dollars. This is obviously A major piece of history Um, I I would imagine I mean I think most people who are somewhat knowledgeable in history realize that the swastika has a very long long long long history well before The nazi party all of that stuff, but this drum It has swastikas on it, but it's it is one of the most like Unbelievable drums what you want to talk a little bit about that drum Oh, yeah, I'm glad you asked because that really is the whole thing Is a fascinating story You know, we could probably do an entire hour just on that drum. Yeah For the people who don't know so there is this 1920s Ludwig snare drum that was made for this guy In william hart who was a really famous silent movie cowboy. So In talking to his family, you know, he would be like about the equivalent of a Sylvester Stallone or Um, you know a huge box office Yeah movie star and kind of an eccentric and uh so Well, it wasn't pre nazi party because see you talk about the research and history. So trust me. I've done a lot so, uh, I think the nazi party was founded About four years before this drum was made. Okay, but At that time, you know, it was just a small labor movement in germany that really nobody outside of germany uh, had ever heard of and really was was Just not significant and Certainly had nothing to do with the nazi party that it it evolved into with you know with hitler and the And you know all the atrocities and holocaust You know some way predating that so the swastika Is a symbol that's been around for For centuries and it's been used in many many different cultures And meaning lots of different things and All of them have been very positive Things it's it's essentially a peace symbol Or in some cultures one, uh, a like almost like a good luck or a prosperity, you know, like Not just good luck, but of a well-wishing of of all good things Um and You know, unfortunately that symbol got hijacked by the nazis and they did everything they did and it's become synonymous with, you know, all of the ugliness that they had perpetuated So here sits this drum that That william hart had chosen this symbol To decorate this beautiful drum that he gave to his then I want to say his three-year-old son Which was a you know, really a very beautiful gift with with a very beautiful, uh Intention, you know that he wanted he's wishing The best for his his young son and and also bought the most expensive drum ever made, you know at the time To give to his three-year-old son, which I guess is just kind of like a You know a typical movie star kind of a thing to do, you know, when you get Outlandish kind of money. That's just what you do. Yeah So that drum of course the kid was three and he you know may have hit it a couple of times It got put away and You know, he didn't take to the drums And There it sat. Um in perfect condition, you know, it was just stored and Okay, so meanwhile in 1925, I believe it was when that drum was made it was such a Such a uh a big deal that Ludwig Wrote an article about it in their Ludwig drummer magazine And it was on the cover of that and they're talking about this beautiful drum and and Again at the time swastikas didn't mean anything.  Yeah Anyway, so the The stroke of luck for the whole drum history world is the fact that That drum was documented on the cover of the Ludwig drum magazine in 1925 So there was and among then um, then you know decades pass and drum geeks Had wondered where this drum was And harry kangeny a one of the original vintage drum dealers Just being an historian He had started years ago. I believe it was in the 90s Trying to track this drum down or find out whatever happened to it And wrote many letters and calls and and came up with nothing But he did send the letter I and I hope I have the dates right but We'll I'll go back and look but you'll get the idea. I believe it was around 1990 He sent a letter to The heart family who and they never responded But they did get it somebody got that letter And they stuck it in the case where the drum was Without ever responding 20 years later They are Moving clearing stuff, you know, uh, this this heart family had had like You know, this guy was a a eccentric collector So he had massive collections of of just all kinds of stuff and they had so They they were moving they're trying to sort out all of his stuff Massive job come this drum They're trying to figure out what to do with it. Here's this letter from harry kangeny That he ripped 20 years previous anyway, they respond to the letter and say, uh 20 years after the fact and They said yeah, we have the drum and it's been sitting in a case for its entire life and It's in a picture and it's in perfect condition And you know, you talk about a holy grail for a historian to you can imagine harry when he got that letter One years later. Oh my god, and he had you know, he'd pretty much just given up on on ever finding anything and had forgotten about and You know life had gone on so, uh Then as it turned out, you know, their conversation went on Uh, he was uh, or they were interested in selling it Harry By then was no longer a drum dealer and just not really interested in doing that We had had dealings in the past harry and I And you know, we were friends and and had a great time dealing Drums and he said boy you should call don bet he could he could uh Probably he's probably the best guy to help you with that And here we are so uh So I was given the task of trying to uh Sell that drum And you know, so on one hand It is this, you know, most expensive Drum ever made at the time. It's probably been more expensive drums made since And it's sure absolutely beautiful and I mean for people listening it is all gold and The whole drum is all gold beautifully done in gold and then There are these Stirling silver swastikas. There's probably I don't know 40 of them. Yeah That are applied To the shell all over the drum plus a beautifully engraved little plaque grease You know, he says it says he's giving it to his son with love Or whatever it says, but it's just an amazing looking drum and a p It would be the holy grail of Uh of all drum collecting Uh and worth a tremendous amount of money, you know, however Um, oh by the way, it is covered with swastikas You know talk about a little hot button Yeah, that's the one thing that is Oh, did I mention? Oh, did I mention it's covered with all 40 or 50 swastikas? But besides that so it just ignore it. So here's my hope is that The person who buys that Uh Is going to be able to It it'll be like the it'll be the Coming full circle on that. It's basically it's it's it's going to be the not letting Evil Yeah, it's gonna be good. It's gonna be good overtaking evil. So yes You know evil swiped that sign and made it into an awful thing and And This drum can Turn that around or it's or it's like no, I'm not gonna let evil take This beautiful thing and turn it into something nasty Yeah, I mean, there's there's buildings all over the world that have like in gray Like in the in the tile in like india and in europe where there's swastikas all over. I mean, it's So yeah, yeah, no exactly and so that is my hope that You know when you really get into the deep Motivation and what what would be really exciting to me is that That when that drum sells it will be a matter of good Winning over evil and yeah, so I hope and you know, it's gonna happen sooner or later And of course but until then there it is for the longest time I I didn't even list it on my website. I just I tried to sell it to Individuals, you know by strictly by phone calls and if somebody was interested then I would send them a picture It's being you know really handling like that It's like a hot potato and I even wrote an article for one of the big drum magazines Explaining the whole history So, you know to help people understand sure and if you notice on my website even now For the main did the thumbnail picture the main picture that people see I don't have a picture of the drum.  You say that because eventually that's where I Stop being afraid of it and said look, you know what if any if somebody would have to try really hard to try to paint me as a nazi or a Somebody who supported that and you know, if somebody wants if somebody wants to Create some big fuss I I can't see it Getting legs and Going crazy. I think you know, I've got enough track record that exactly enough people know why and that they could see Bs when they see it they recognize bs when they see it.  I never knew he was a nazi. My god. He seemed like such a nice guy No, wow, it's a beautiful drum. Everyone should check it out and I think um, it's a part of history. So And like I said, ultimately it is going to be good triumphing over evil sooner or later And you know, there's there is uh, there's a lot of ugliness out there in the world right now and If you know that that will be Really gratifying to me when that happens and I know it will happen Um, I mean, hey any drum dealer who sells a hundred and eighteen thousand dollar drum If that's can be very gratifying But that will really be small potatoes compared to The fact that this will demonstrate good Weaning out over evil Removing the stigma not giving it the power the evil the power it's diffused. You know, yeah, it would be diffusing the negative power that uh, That uh, it basically stole from That symbol Absolutely cool. Well don, I think that's that's a really cool end of the episode because I've actually been curious about that drum forever And it's it's just one of those like like you said you You look at it and you go, oh my god, but it's it's a piece of history. Um, so Everyone can check that out on the website and and before we wrap up I want to tell people because I know A lot of my listeners are actually, you know, there's a lot of big-time collectors who you I guarantee You know many of them and they're they're probably people you you deal with already and they can afford a lot of the nice drums But for guys like me, I think it's really cool on your website how you do have a couple like like There is a t-shirt section You can get for like a hundred fifty bucks seventy five bucks T-shirts that were correct me if i'm wrong They were basically like the band shirts that elvin jones and his band would wear Um and the crew right yeah, aren't those cool. They're really cool those shirts those shirts Yeah, so And i'll i'll keep it brief, but you know when elvin passed I bought elvin's entire Collection of drums and wasn't the collection it was just like what he'd acquired These are just all his drums and he never got rid of anything So he literally had an entire apartment filled floor to ceiling Every room With his old drum gear so, uh, I mean Talk about a you know a pharaoh's tomb like king tuts tomb. I mean that was just like I I still am selling much of that stuff and and boy, that's you know Through that I've Came well, that's how I came to know charlie walks. Is he bought some of that stuff? I've just got to know Dozens maybe hundreds of of drummers and Famous and just other otherwise just It's been an amazing experience Um, but yeah amongst all that stuff were all these t-shirts and some of them are actually elvin's actual shirts And then other ones are the ones that Uh, he uh He had made for his band and and he he never Had, you know, like a swag t-shirt. You remember sold t-shirts like a lot of bands do now Yeah, like a merch booth kind of thing Yeah, so the only way to get one of those shirts was either to be elvin or to be in his band Now, you know, I don't know if you also saw it, but it's it's worth mentioning because it's another one These really cool finds is that In a box in the last transaction I had with elvin with elvin's wife. I'm sorry.  So, you know, you know, he traveled all over the world gigged all over the world and whenever he could he would get a A copy of the poster from from whatever gigs he was doing and we just take him and throw him in a box and That's what he did and that box got stuck in storage and forgot about and So I've got this collection of about 500 of his posters And, you know, not only not only are they cool Really historical posters from I mean the chronicle like Would have been about About 30 years of his life But, you know, they're they're his personal Posters that, you know, he collected Out there on his travels I mean you talk about every picture telling the story those things You know, every one of them has History and boy, I'll tell you just Every one of them is a can of worms basically because, you know, in the little digging around I've done, you know, so I talked to a promoter and I find, you know, I get in touch with a promoter who who Was promoting that show and then he's got a story about how elvin treated him so nicely and and the gig or something crazy that happened at the gig and Everyone's got a story like that and wow So yeah, yeah, that's the fun stuff that I End up spending my time doing that's what I do Yeah, well, and I think it's cool to say that just so like people know to go to your site and that they're not all these, you know Hopefully people can buy, you know, the buddy rich drum set or something like that But you can still get a t-shirt, you know for I've got all I I I do have all kinds of stuff. It's not just $40,000 drum sets I do I do try to only deal in really nice Stuff I it's quality. Yeah, it's not I still clear of the project kind of stuff because really I just don't have time To do projects anymore. Sure. So Yeah, so it's I've just had the Really good fortune to be able to sort of specialize in in sort of the To the really nicest stuff out I'm very fortunate It is the nicest stuff, man. Well So everyone can go to like I said before dawn ben at d o n n Be n n e t t dot com You can see everything there and just keep up with dawn and um man dawn I want to just thank you for taking the time to Share the amazing story about these drums and all this stuff in your background And hopefully we'll we'll be able to hang out it when the when the drums shows actually start back up again after all this craziness is over I sure hope so and I I I didn't realize how much I missed that stuff Yeah, but uh, I really look forward to that and it's you know, it's worth mentioning also So for I don't know five or six years. I was writing a column every month called time capsules in drum magazine Now they stopped publishing recently and Modern drummer picked up the column and so now it's called dawn ben at strum vault and every month I do a story on some Some item from my collection And so yeah that That whole column, you know first with drum and now with modern drummer That was a Lot of fun. And you know, there's that word again keep being historian But writing those, you know, I really had to go and and do the history and get it on paper But So I document the whole Sort of process kind of like we're doing today the whole process on on researching any one of these Many drums that have Come across my path So but yeah, that's uh, that'll that's in uh, that'll be a monthly column out in In every issue of modern drummer. That's great. Many ways to keep up with dawn So cool. Well don, thank you so much for taking the time to be here And uh, and like I said, everyone can go to don ben at calm and check it out. So, um, don Thank you very much. Hey Bart, uh, again, thank you. Thank you for having me and Uh, hey, this this was a uh an afternoon well spent. I love talking about drums and You know, I could probably keep this going for another few hours Me too me too. Awesome. Thank you, Don Bart. Thanks million. All right. Take care If you like this podcast find me on social media at drum history And please share rate and leave a review and let me know topics that you would like to learn about the future Until next time keep on learning This is a Gwyn sound podcast