Once again, I'll just ask you to raise your hand if we'll see you next year when we're sitting in the chamber. This is every part, everybody in at this point in time so that we may start the hearing. Okay. Again, good afternoon. For the next two hours, we are here to listen to we, the members of House Human Services, and House Education are here at Judiciary, sorry, House Judiciary and House Human Services. We are here to listen to members of the public express their views and opinions on H57, an act relating to abortion access. I want to reiterate that this is the Vermont State House and you are in the well of the House. This is not a play so we don't clap. This is not a sporting event so we don't root and holler. This is a very emotional and personal issue that many of you, that we all have strong views and opinions of. And you're going to hear things that you disagree with. Please keep your disagreement to yourself. You're going to hear things that you agree with. I ask that you keep your agreement to yourself. You may hear things that you think are not factually accurate and you want to correct it. You can do so in writing. I would ask that everyone be quiet so that we can hear the individuals who are testifying. Those of you who were not able to testify, we will accept statements in writing and you can e-mail them to us and they will be posted on the committee's webpage. Thank you all very much. This is what democracy is all about. We hear what everyone is having to say. The way this will go is a member of the committee will read three names. The first name will be the person who is going to speak and we ask you to be ready. The second name will be on deck and the third name will be the third one and so we will do it like that. You have two minutes. There is up there. You will see that and I also have the ability to see two minutes and if you go over, I will gently ask you to please stop. So on that, thank you very much for being here and let's start the public hearing. And to clarify folks so that you know, we are going back and forth between people who are talking in support and people who are talking in opposition. Chloe, go ahead. Good afternoon. I'm Chloe White from the ACLU of Vermont. We want to express our firm support for this bill and we are urging you to enact it. It simply codifies current practice in Vermont and ensures that at every point in a pregnancy, the health of the person is paramount and drives important personal medical decisions. The future of Roe v. Wade and access to safe and legal reproductive care looks uncertain and this bill will help to ensure that reproductive freedom is protected in Vermont no matter what happens at the federal level. The legislation ensures politics remains removed from personal health care decisions and leaves medicine to medical professionals and their patients. Whether and when to become a parent is one of the most private and important decisions a person can make and politics should not intrude in this process. It is callous and absurd to think that a person right before their due date would choose to pay over $25,000 to have an abortion and that any doctor would perform it and it makes no sense to assert that someone is not responsible enough to make their own decisions considering their body but is somehow responsible enough to carry a pregnancy to term and possibly to parent. So we are in full support of this bill in giving those factors. Vermont has long been a standard bearer for liberty and personal freedom and this bill furthers that tradition. We urge the legislature to pass this legislation and protect reproductive rights here in Vermont. Thank you. Thank you. The next one will be Dick Heilman and then Sarah Kenny. Sir, we can't hear you, sir. I'm a retired physician in Burlton, Vermont. I oppose this legislation. I think it's misguided in some areas. My misgivings are twofold. One is that the bill as written opens the door wide to abortion attempts by any member of the public and it says in their language of mind, no state or local law enforcement shall prosecute any individual producing, performing or attempting to induce or perform the individual's own emotion. It's not a complete sentence as written but the intent is familiar that abortion services will be available to any woman including herself which, of course, undercuts one of the important forms of real weight. My second, I think this qualifying, for me this qualifying characteristic of this bill is that it's very ambiguous about the term limits that such a procedure would be known. As it turns out, I was a medical student who thought I had the chance to see each of these things in real life. I saw in the stream of large abortions at the father of the general hospital and the idea that you could turn this procedure over to the public is absolutely nonsense and nearly impossible for me to imagine. And I think any reasonable reading would agree that this is available to everybody. Dr. Hammond, thank you very much. If you have comments and writing, please give them to us so we can post them. Sarah Kenney. Here speaking as an individual, on behalf of myself and the many women who I've known over the years who relied on access to safe abortion and Vermont.  For so many women I worked with, there was no choice about whether to engage in sexual activity or to conceive a child. They just didn't have a choice of a matter. Contraceptive sabotage and sexual assault are very common tools of perpetrators to observe power and control. It is so critically important for women, especially who are experiencing this kind of violence and for all women in Vermont, to have every option available to them. Abortion needs to be safely available and affordable to all who may need it for whatever reason. So I ask you to please support. Thank you, Sarah. The next one is Greg. And for those of you who are having trouble hearing, we are trying to fix that right now. But we're going to go on because we need to keep to a two-hour time frame. After Greg is Brenda Siegel-Muffin. My name is Greg Darling and I'm here to speak truth to this body today. This is an open letter to the legislators of Vermont. God has placed you in this legislature and is holding you accountable for every vote you record. He expects you to vote with justice and fairness and truth. Everyone worships something. What is the hidden agenda behind your support for this bill? Each one of you has one. In earlier history, the Israelites lived in a culture full of pagan gods, one of which was Mola. The calories of Mola could burn their children to death with sacrifices to him. God called them an abomination. Are you worshiping a demon? The true and living God will not be mocked and does not forget. The Bible says God formed you in the womb. Life begins at conceptions where abortion is predeterminated and murdered. You pass this bill and your names in co-ordinated support will be signed with the blood of the innocent. From the day this bill is passed, God will hold each of you accountable for every abortion in Vermont that follows.  The cries as they are being butchered will rise to God and as martyrs their cries will not be silenced. It is written that one day each of us will stand before God and give an accounting of his life. Justice will be measured out to you with the same measure you use for others. Follow the lead of one of your colleagues who withdrew his support for this bill. You don't have to give acceptable reasons to anyone. Just say no.  You think your state is struggling now past this bill. You think you are exempt from punishment past this bill. God will not be mocked. What will be the sign that what has been penned here is truth? This God you have on the top of your state house. God will cover it with blood. Thank you. There is to be no clapping. The next person who claps I will ask the sergeant of arms to remove you. This is not a supporting event and this is not a play. At the age of 24 I became pregnant while in an abusive relationship. Many of the choices that I had leading up to this pregnancy were not mine. While I made the choice to have my baby, my experience in the clinics were nourishing and they supported fully the choice that I did eventually make. I was extremely grateful to have that choice. The choice to parent a child is not or not is personal and should always be personal and should be protected. All of us need to stand up and protect women from ever experiencing a forced birth. Having a baby is a beautiful thing but only when you want to. Women's ability to choose is directly linked to their economic freedom, their ability to be safe in their bodies and their homes. 69.3% of all Vermont abortions were for pregnancies of less than nine weeks duration. 91.7% of all Vermont abortions happened within the first trimester. 1.3% of all Vermont abortions occurred in 2016 after 21 weeks and most often for medical reasons. Age 57 will not change those current federal laws. It merely puts them into one cohesive place that the laws already exist in our state. Women's reproductive freedom is connected to women's freedom period and that to take away that freedom would put women in dangerous situations and eliminate their economic freedom and most importantly would take away women's ultimate ability to control their own body. And when and where they want to start a family and that choice is between the pregnant person and their doctor. I support codifying our current laws with age 57 and I thank you for your leadership on this issue and your diligence to protect the freedom of women and families in our state. Thank you. Brittany Lovejoy speaking.ukai Warren on deck. I oppose this bill and ask you to as well. I wear this veil when I go to church. Closer to the mic please. I wear this veil when I go to church because God is present. And while this is not a church, I wear it here and now because we are under God, one nation under God. I also wear the veil because this is a matter of life and death. How can we determine which life has value? Which life to let live or die? We are not only discussing what happens here on earth, our actions here and now affect our future, our eternal life or death. I ask for God's righteous right hand to be upon you when you cast your vote and I oppose this bill. Perhaps you may not believe in God, yet God believes in you, all of you, all without exception. He knew you before the womb. Jesus came to earth to teach us about God and God has not forgotten our beautiful state here. He says, follow me. He began his life on earth in the womb of a woman, a holy woman. And I ask her to pray for us. Hail Mary, full of grace, the Lord is with thee. Blessed art thou among women and blessed is the fruit of thy womb. Thy womb, blessed is the fruit of thy womb. Jesus, holy Mary, leather of God, pray for us sinners now and at the hour of our death. Amen. Thank you. Dottie Kyle speaking, Eloise Martin Underhill on deck. This is not an easy task for me. Speaking publicly about an event in 1953, 20 years before Roe v. Wade made abortion legal. I was a dopey teenager in love. I became pregnant at 17, a junior in high school. Both my parents and the boy's parents felt an abortion was necessary. Fortunately, both sets of parents were wealthy and connected enough that medical doctor and OB-GYN, who had regular practice in New York City, was found and did the procedure after hours in his midtown office. That allowed me to finish high school, go to college, ultimately marry that boy, and have three lovely daughters. A happy ending. Now what would my life have been like if our parents weren't connected, wealthy and supportive? Would a back alley abortion have taken place? How would that have affected my physical and mental health? Without access to an abortion, I would have struggled to support a family as a teenage single mother without any higher education. Nature is profligate with the seeds of conception. Women are born with enough COVID to shed one a month for their entire reproductive lives. Men release more than 50 million sperm in a single ejaculation. As a result, we're bringing way too many people onto this planet. That's a plea for reproductive education, for contraception, for the imperative that women should be respected to make their own decisions about their reproductive lives. For all these reasons, I support age 57. Let's maintain the squat status quo and not go backward. Thank you. Thank you. Eloise Martin speaking. Carol Crossman Warren on deck. First, I want to say to everyone that helped me get this closer to the mic. First, it's important for me to say to everyone who helped me together, hands full. This is just a partial part of the petitions that we circulated around the state and that we continue to fill up here today as people came in the door to abort this petition. I'm going to read what it has to say, and there's a bunch of us that got together and spent two days deciding how we should word this. We couldn't believe it could be so hard to just simply say, we don't like this, but here's what we came up with. Vermonters are outraged at our legislators who are quietly seeking to push through abortion law H0057 that will allow for a termination of a pregnancy with no limitation on time, reason, viability, or method. This proposed legislation goes beyond that of New York and establishes a fundamental right to abortion that cannot be infringed on or restrained in any way. Our past silence has gotten us to this horrific place. We will be silent no more. We, the unassigned, request our representatives to kill H57. And I just want to say thank you to everyone who signed it today and all those who brought in their petitions and passed them in, and I know there are hundreds more, but I have a good hand for him that I'm very thankful for. Thank you very much, and you can leave your petitions right here.  Carol Klossman speaking, Bridget Mount Essex Junction on deck. A personal story. It happened 52 years ago. I gave birth to a child, and three days later I gave her up to an adoption agency in New York City. Abortion was illegal, it was not available. Clearly trials were on the way for contraception. I could not bring the child into the world that was the result of coercion or story. I have lifted this for 52 years, and just recently you cannot recapture 52 years. Why did this happen? It happened because of an etiology of legislators and judges who invoked a government rule that they will decide on reproductive rights of women. Harris has said that decisions about the male body as they have for the female, if the thousands and thousands of years it is useless to try and ban it. Demonize it. This has proven ineffective. Women will seek this type of procedure when these legislators is making it safe for emotions to have dangerous consequences. We support reproductive choice and keep women safe. Thank you. Here to beg you to oppose this legislation we need laws to protect the child in the womb not allow the destruction of life. We have laws that rightly protect our pets while the eagles eggs and other endangered species and yet the child in the womb deserves an even greater protection under the law than what we give to our animals. Before you vote, I beg you, take a good long hard look at what abortion really is in particular late term abortion. A quick Google search and you can find videos and pictures of aborted children. The facts are horrific. It's clear that late term abortion in particular is the dismemberment of children. Abortionists will tell us abortion often involves sucking out a child's brains so that the skull collapses if it's too large to remove intact. Then later they sift through the body parts to make sure they removed all the limbs of the child. In contrast, we have come so far in prenatal care that now life saving surgeries are done when children are still in the wombs of their mothers. Scientific studies show that children in the womb can recognize their mothers and fathers voices, respond to music and other stimulus. How then can we possibly not recognize the humanity of these children in the womb? They are unique individuals and parents in society who have an obligation to protect them. Killing a child inside a mother's womb then removing that dead child from her body is not the same as taking out a tumor. An unborn child is not part of that mother's body. It's a unique life growing inside of her, yes. A child has his own blood type, own heartbeat and own DNA from the moment of conception.  I find it disturbing that when most Americans would want abortion limited because we now know that unborn children feel pain that we here would even consider this legislation before us. So once again, I urge you to defeat this legislation and to work for laws that protect vulnerable preborn children. I urge everyone to recognize that as individuals in society it's time we begin to repent and begin the healing process. Thank you. Pamela Lerner speaking and a pelt of Pittsburgh on deck. I would like... Am I there? I would like to say point out that this law would only continue the current legal status of abortion in Vermont. It does not change access. When I grew up before Roe v. Wade if I had needed an abortion and gotten the back alley abortion which was all that was available I might never have been able to have children. I might never have been able to have my wonderful boys and my grandchildren. Another thing religious conservatives have co-opted this debate and rooted it in theology. The First Amendment to our Constitution states Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion. To me that says you can practice whatever religion you choose but don't try to legislate your religious ideas on to me. Thank you. Anna Pelt speaking. Dawn Smith Plinner of Wells on deck. I'm not here to argue whether a baby in the womb is alive. We all know it is. It's a living human with its own unique DNA. What I want to say today is something we all deeply know to be true. The abortion at any stage of pregnancy is murder. If anyone in this room supports this appalling bill you are personally assisting in the murder of thousands of helpless humans and you will stand before God on judgment day and have to answer for it. I pray that the supporters of age 57 will reconsider and stop this bill before it becomes law. So God created man in his own image in the image of God God created he, him, male and female. Thank God please work in the hearts of our lawmakers. Jesus name, amen. Thank you, Ann. Dawn Smith Plinner speaking. Pamela Willemair Essex on deck. Hi, I'm Dawn Smith Plinner founding director of Friends in adoption a licensed adoption agency in Vermont located in southern Vermont. We are a pro choice agency and we believe that all individuals have a right to have access to all options. Parenting, abortion and adoption. Friends in adoption is partnered with Planned Parenthood of New England, Planned Parenthood of New York City. We are one of two agencies listed on the Planned Parenthood national site and FYI strongly supports the passing of age 57. Thank you. Thank you, Dawn. Pamela Willemair speaking. Marie Daley Williston on deck. Currently in the state of Vermont it is legal for an abortion to be performed at any stage of pregnancy for any reason. This means through all nine months and even when labor starts. I recently saw an email from a physician in state rep stating that there is no provider or facility in Vermont doing elective termination of pregnancy after 22 weeks, six days, which is currently the accepted threshold of viability. If this is true then having to place, having in place to terminate pregnancy through all nine months is not necessary. I propose legislation be placed restricting and preventing late term abortions. It is not required by Vermont law to use fetal anesthesia during an abortion. It has been medically proven that a fetus can feel intense pain 20 weeks post conception. If the state of Vermont is going to continue to legally take a pre-born life then I want to see legislation for the use of fetal anesthesia to make the process more humane. There have been pre-borns that have survived failed abortion attempts that have been left on the table screaming in pain left to die. Planned Parenthood would like us to believe that there are no live burst abortion. This simply is not true. According to ACLJ's research and statistics recorded by the Centers for Disease Control 362 babies were born alive followed a botched abortion in the last decade. The attempted abortion is the only cause of death for these newborns and they were born before dying. There is currently no legislation in place that will protect this now premature baby who survived the abortion. I want legislation in place that will protect this now premature baby and that all medical resources necessary will be used to save his or her life just the way they would any premature baby born under different circumstances. There are 44,000 survivors of abortion living in the US today and their lives matter. Therefore, I implore all of you, our legislatures representing Vermont to make a responsible decision not a political one but a decision that considers the consequences of your choices and one that values human life. Thank you. Thank you. Mary Daley speaking. Zachary Hampel Rutland on deck. I'm the proud, can you, everybody hear me? I'm a proud board member of the Friends in Adoption. I was very fortunate to become a mom through adoption 22 years ago. And what I think it's important to remember is every woman has a choice.  And well, it took about 12 hours for my son to be born and we started talking about adoption and abortion and my son's birth mother said to me, every woman has a choice and I chose adoption. However, that's not the right choice for every single woman. So today, we all stand with Planned Parenthood in supporting the choice that every woman needs to make for herself. Thank you so much. Thank you. Zachary Hampel speaking. Teclo von Hoeven, Waterbury Center on deck. Good evening. I'm here to oppose this bill. Take a good look at what sits behind me. Two innocent newborns, presumably infants, people who will grow up to be in our country as American citizens. And I firmly believe that with our Constitution of the United States, specifically Amendment 5 as established in 1791, that no person, think about that, no person, not man, not woman, no person, shall be deprived of life or liberty or property without a due process. No person, not a man, not a woman, not black, not white, not Hispanic or Latino, no person in general. Decoration of independence that was so elegant were written in 1776 on July 4th, specifically says that we as citizens of this country have certain unalienable rights, certain unalienable rights that are endowed to us by our creator. And in chronological order, the Declaration of Independence says that those are life, liberty, pursuit of happiness, self-evident truths, self-evident truths, and that all people in our country are created equal. Here's a prime example. They sit here with us tonight. Do any of you have the heart to deprive these two of their life? I can't believe it if you do. Not going to force you to believe what I believe, but that is what I believe. It's what I believe. Thank you to my mother for giving me the right to live. Thank you. I love you. I'm proud to be alive because my mother was pro-life. And I hope that legislators here on this body will consider the same. Thank you. Thank you, Zachary. Teclavon Hoven speaking. Dorothy Bouldook, St. Albans on deck. When my daughter asked me yesterday to think about coming and talking to you and telling you about my experience with abortion, I thought, why? It wasn't dramatic. There were no back alleys. It wasn't dark or scary. It was a safe legal abortion. And she said, I know, Mom, that's the point. So I'll tell you my story. I was 29 years old. I had gotten careless. I got pregnant. I was able to call my regular doctor, go and see him. He confirmed my pregnancy. He set an appointment for me. He told me all my options. I had never a doubt as to what my choice would be. My company's health insurance paid for it. I was able to take a day off from work with pay, go up to one of the best hospitals in the country, and one of the partners of my doctor did the procedure. I chose not to have anesthesia. The recovery is quicker. And I remember lying there, and the doctor was telling me the things that would happen, and he looked over at me at a certain point. He said, you okay? And I knew he really meant it. And I said, yeah, I am. After that, I went into the recovery room. About a half an hour later, a friend came to pick me up. She took me home in a cab. A few other friends came over, brought Chinese food. We sat, we talked, we laughed, we cried. We did what women do. And I have no regrets. I regret my carelessness. I have never regretted my choice because I've always known it was consistent with what I believed. Thank you. Thank you. Dorothy Bolduk speaking. Dottie Rick's Berry Town on Deck. When my mother told me about the facts of life, she said, pregnancy is a one-way street. If you get pregnant, you will have a baby. Think about it. If you get an abortion, you still have a baby. You still have a dead baby. So the time for choices is before pregnancy. Age 57 is a terrible bill. It only protects the abortion industry. It has nothing to protect women's health or babies. It has no regulations or safeguards for women's health. It has no restrictions on abortion up to birth. Age 57 prohibits prosecution of a person performing any abortion. That totally protects the abortionist, but it does nothing to protect women from medical malpractice. Age 57 says a fertilized egg embryo or fetus has no rights in the state of Vermont. This is outrageous.  We love our pre-born babies. We show their sonograms. We name our babies before birth. We joyfully wait for their birthdays.  Vermont regulates everything. Why do you want an unregulated abortion industry? Why do you care more about the abortion industry than women's health? Why would you allow viable babies to be killed when they could be born alive? It would be irresponsible to pass this bill. Do not pass this bill. Thank you. Thank you very much. Dottie Ricks speaking. Scott Libby, Newport on deck. My name is Dottie Ricks. I am a 25-year member of the League of Women Voters of Vermont. I am representing them in this testimony first and myself second. I am speaking fast. The League strongly supports the bill H-57 as introduced. Since 1983, the League has supported reproductive choice. We support every woman's right of access to affordable, high-quality reproductive health care, including access to abortion services and birth control. Our position is that public policy in a pluralistic society must affirm the constitutional right of privacy, and that includes the right of the individual to make reproductive choices. The League supports treating reproductive rights, including access to abortion, as a health care issue decidable by a woman and her qualified health care provider. The League has joined with other protest organizations nationwide in opposition to restrictions in reproductive choices, particularly those that have appeared in Congress as legislative writers to funding measures. These types of measures undermine constitutional integrity. We believe with the passage of H-57, you can help maintain Vermont's constitutional rights. I'm also a proud Vermonter for almost 30 years. I'm a child of the 60s, and remember with a deep parlor, as a young woman helping to secure others for safe pregnancy termination. With the photo of Geraldine Santora dead due to a back alley abortion in Blazenden, Maryland, we were very fortunate to find providers who at great risk to themselves and their professions chose to help women have safe pregnancy termination. I want to point out that one result of the current national administration is that hundreds of judges are being replaced on the bench by party ideologues. Many of them who like their leaders have demonstrated no respect for women or the Constitution. I think that passing this bill as introduced will help ensure those rights. Thank you. Scott Libby speaking. Melinda Moulton Huntington on deck. Do not support H-57. Killing a baby in the womb is not a fundamental right of anyone except God alone.  You knitted me together in my mother's womb. To kill babies is to treat God as though he does not exist. Imagine if I chose to believe that there were no stop signs. In reality, they do exist, but I'm going to drive my car as if they don't exist. One of two possible things can happen. Either I'll be very fortunate to have a police officer pull me over and ticket me pointing out the reality of stop signs and I need to obey them always or I'll be most unfortunate and cause a serious accident hurting or killing somebody, perhaps myself. Well, in the beginning, God created the heavens and the earth. God does exist. Just like stop signs exist. Today, you are graciously being reminded of the reality of stop signs or the reality of God. To treat stop signs as if they are not there is just as foolish and dangerous as it is to treat God as if he's not there. Thus says the Lord, do justice and righteousness and deliver the one who has been robbed from the power of his oppressor. Also, do not mistreat or do violence to the stranger, the orphan or the widow and do not shed innocent blood in this place. Jesus says, permit the children to come to me and do not hinder them and the kingdom of God belongs to such as these. Imagine a great artist painting a masterpiece. Suddenly, an intruder comes into the studio with a switchblade and slashes the canvas to shreds in front of the artist. The womb is the studio of God Almighty who weaves the child together. The abortionist is the intruder. How would God feel? How does God feel when he sees the slashing happen? Thank you, Scott. I'm the Malin speaking. Jerry Schumann, Ledlow, on deck. My name is Malin the Malton. I'm the CEO of Main Street Landing. I serve on the board of Planned Parenthood of Northern New England and I'm the president of the Planned Parenthood of Vermont Action Fund and I support H57. 58 years ago, when I was 10 years old, my father and mother divorced. My mother fell in love with a man and she became pregnant. What I remember is that my mother left to a woman's hospital where women with means went to give birth in secret without anyone ever knowing. Well, something happened at that woman's hospital because my mother died three days before Christmas. I learned many years later that my mother gave birth to a baby girl who was adopted. After the birth, the doctor performed a hysterectomy which went wrong. My mother developed peritonitis and over a five month period, she withered away. She got pneumonia and she died. She was just 40 years old. Me and my three siblings, aged six to 16, were left motherless. Another memory that is seared in my brain is the night that my mother was rushed to the hospital because she was found bleeding on the floor of our bathroom. And years later, I learned from my aunt that my mother attempted to abort a pregnancy herself. She spent two weeks in the hospital to heal. My mother's life was horrifically compromised because she did not have access to safe and legal abortion. What possibly could lurk in the minds of those who think that they have the right to legislate what I or any woman chooses if we are impregnated when we choose not to be. It is our body. It is our life. That may be very frank. One in four women in the U.S. have had an abortion. Women will always choose their own reproductive destiny and the reality is it will either be at the dangerous end of coat hanger or it will remain safe in the capable and trained hands of a professional. For our daughters and our granddaughters, we must ensure it remains the latter. In the memory of my mother and all the women who suffered before abortion was legal, I implore you to take the lead to ensure that all Vermont women for all time have access to affordable, legal, and safe abortion without restrictions. Thank you very much. Thank you. Jerry Schumann speaking. Rick Moten on deck. Huntington on deck. I want to thank you health members for being here today. My name is Jerry Schumann and I serve as pastor at Ludlow Baptist Church. I urge you to vote against age 57 for three reasons. First, it ignores the personhood of the baby. My wife gave birth to our fourth child, beautiful little Eliana, her fertility rate in Vermont in 2017 was 1.5 per woman. Tied for lowest in the union and more than half a child lower than her placement rate. And therefore a higher tax burden with businesses and schools closing down. All laws teach and this law teaches us to continue to devalue children and our economic future. Third, this bill ignores and defies the most important person. A prophet, one of your own said, imagine if there is no heaven. It's easy if you try.  This bill assumes that. But there is a God who made the world and everything in it. He is the one who has shaped and fashioned every one of us in our mother's womb. We are made in the image of God which means every baby is valuable and belongs to God bearing his image.  But house members, she does not. Jesus Christ died rose again and has seen it at God's right hand and he commands all rulers to serve him with fear lest they perish in his wrath and I call you legislators for your sake to honor Christ and reject this bill. Thank you. Rick Milton speaking. Timothy counts Arlington on deck. I'm here to testify in support of age 57. I've always been a strong supporter of choice for women. As a man, I would never feel the right to tell a woman what choices she should have over her body and pregnancy. Obviously, if I get a woman pregnant I would expect to be part of a discussion about having and raising a child. But in the end it's her decision. Age 57 protects the rights of Vermont women. It ensures their control over their own destiny. Something no one else has the right to judge. Men tend to weigh in on this issue. We've heard that. And they think they know what's best for various reasons. Usually belief in a higher being. But let's be honest. Men have no clue what it's like to become pregnant. For us men to sit in judgment on a woman's choice is wrong. And for the state to legislate control over a woman's choice I think is unconstitutional. In my own early twenties, right out of college my wife and I, pregnant, decided to have a child. We had a son. And then my wife became pregnant again shortly afterwards due to my carelessness. She chose to go ahead and have an abortion. And four years later we had our second child and we could really afford it. Certainly his way of life and our daughters have been beneficial because of that time that we had to grow our lives. I'm testifying today so my granddaughters will have the same rights and opportunities that we had 47 years ago in this country the right for women to choose when they want to have a child. Timothy Count speaking. Rita Clark Fletcher on deck. Dear members of the house when I became a pastor in 2001 I never would have guessed that I would one day sit before a house committee testifying against a bill that says that pre-born babies have zero rights. But here we are in that situation today so here I am today. Isaiah 4510 says woe to him who says to a woman who can't value and labor. Everybody knows the answer is a baby the human being. The bible tells us in multiple places that human beings are made in the image of God which means that we have value given to us by God based on being human not what we can offer. One major concern about H57 is this phrase of fertilized egg embryo or fetus shall not have independent rights under Vermont law. No rights? Does this mean that he or she is property parts that could be sold or used for scientific experimentation? Can we at least find common ground that babies who can feel pain should be given rights? At what point would insurance companies no longer be required to cover life-saving medicines and procedures that are administered in the room? Why would you put your name on a bill that takes away the right of a woman to seek justice for her baby when she is a pregnant victim of a violent crime? That's a baby. What about babies born alive during a late-term abortion, which a 2017 U.S. House investigative panel found is more common than usually claimed? We have been told that age 57 would not infringe on faith-based pregnancy centers. Where is it in writing that they would not be required to present abortion as an alternative? Dietrich Bonhoeffer was a German pastor during the Nazi regime. Bonhoeffer pastor during a time that his government, the Nazis, said that an entire segment of humanity had no personhood. Bonhoeffer courageously declared not to speak is to speak, not to act is to act. We are speaking and we are acting today. And we will continue to do so for those you are saying are non-people. You will continue to hear from us until every baby in Vermont is not just giving their rights back. Thank you. We have an opportunity to have a birthday. We declare speaking. Paula, do you move pain on deck? I want to applaud the age 57 proposal because it protects women and it does not restrict our freedom. It is all inclusive. The beliefs of opponents of pro-choice and age 57 are included in this bill. This bill does not restrict their rights or their beliefs. It includes them. I do not want to tell opponents of this bill what to do. I do not want them to tell me what to do. This bill protects my rights and my freedoms. This age 57 guarantees that women and their partners, it guarantees them the freedom to choose a live birth and abortion or some other means deemed appropriate to those partners or person. This bill also protects women against other restrictions that their families, their religion or other cultural pressures put on them. We need to remember that sometimes women really are stressed and pressured by their own religion and families. This bill protects women from surprise pregnancies that are a result of fail birth control devices used by either male or female women in legal way out. The men and women of this legislative body have a responsibility to protect human rights. I want to end with a quote about violent pregnancy. Not all men practice violence against women but all women live with a threat of male violence and in consequence also pregnancy. That is by Sir Raya Shamali and I would like to urge this body to continue this bill and to make this a constitutional amendment under the rights of privacy. Thank you. Paula Green speaking, Sue Burton of Burlington Unback. From a letter I wrote to my daughter two years ago Dear Jamie, I was so young when I gave birth to you at that time in my life I retained within me the principles of right and wrong that I was brought up with and I chose to rightly have you the responsibility of rearing you the best way I could. My best was so bad in so many ways. I made worse and even worse decisions that have affected us both. The most grievous of those decisions was to have an abortion. To make that decision once is heart breaking and yet I made that decision six times before you were ten years old. I cannot imagine what learning this will mean to you. I could attempt to help you understand the reasons for each and every time I chose to end a child's life. But the reasons make no difference. There is no reason that makes my choices reasonable or anything but selfish and horribly damaging to so many including and mostly you. I denied you the life and the family that God wanted for you and I will not defend that. I am sorry. Is there anything else apart from God's mercies for me? The grace of God has been great towards me and I do not deserve any of the goodness he gives me. I love you and my grandchildren more than I can express much more than I can sometimes endure.  Each time I hope somehow my own grandchildren might redeem me and yet this was a very foolish and fruitless way of thinking. In the end it is only Christ that could forgive and redeem me and I will never again forgive him. He has shown me a love that transcends all that I have been. You have brothers and sisters in heaven. I am so sorry you did not have them here. Forgive me, Mom. It has taken all of my courage to take an honest look at what an abortion is a horrifying and difficult task.  Thank you. Sue Burton speaking. Elizabeth Chichilly domestic. I urge you to support age 57. There's a long history in Vermont of independence, tolerance. Please don't let a well orchestrated minority restrict a woman from making decisions about her own life. In 1972 I was hired at the Vermont Women's Health Center which was founded to provide a full range of women's reproductive health care including abortion. For over 25 years I was a physician assistant there and at Planned Parenthood. Over the years I have provided care to Vermont women from every walk of life. One in four women in the United States has had an abortion. Everyone in this room knows someone who has had an abortion. She may not have told you. Abortion is a personal decision. I got involved in women's health in 1971 when I was a community VISTA in Franklin County. I met a woman who was pregnant and frantic and had taken the drug Urgotrate from their dairy barn to induce an abortion. She survived the heavy bleeding but her story startled me into action. Why am I bringing up this ancient history? Because history is repeating itself. In Texas where clinics have been shut down they're bringing into Mexico to buy over the counter ulcer drugs to cause an abortion. They don't know how many pills to take or the risks involved and there's nowhere to turn for backup. Urgotrate in 1971 ulcer drugs in 2019. Do we want Vermont to go back in time? Restricting abortion will not make it go away. It will make it unsafe. 100 years ago my great aunt Mehdi died of an illegal abortion. Please do not send us back to those days. Thank you. Elizabeth Chichilly speaking. Janet Young Fletcher on back. Thank you for this opportunity to speak. Facing this bill that brings out strong convictions and emotions I do not envy your positions at all. We are told at Proverbs if we seek wisdom like a hidden treasure then we will find it and so I pray for wisdom for each one of you. After facing my own unplanned pregnancy and considering the option of abortion myself I found myself wanting to help other women in that situation. Simply because I understand that there is no easy option. Only hard choices. That being said when I walked my road I had to face the fact that my choice would not only affect my life but the life of the baby growing inside of me. I could not put my wants above that baby's fundamental right to live. It scares me how our culture has slipped into this place of honoring the mother's desires above the child's right to life. It makes me think of the Holocaust where Jews were no longer viewed as people even though they were obviously living human beings. Their rights were stripped away and then so were their lives. In our own history it's embarrassing to remember how slaves were treated as property not people even though they were obviously living human beings. Simply because the desires of their owners were deemed more important. We look back on these tragedies and proclaim never again yet here we are again. Babies in the womb which science and ultrasound show us are obviously living human beings are not considered people because this time their own mother's desires are declared more important. In 1988 President Ronald Reagan stated when reverence for life can have no boundaries when we begin to take some life casually we throw in all life. All human beings share an equal right to life simply by virtue of their humanity. If we are to err shouldn't it be on the side of life. Again thank you for listening to all of our voices here today and I ask you each to seek out wisdom and to treat no human life casually. Thank you. Thank you. Janet Young speaking. Anissa Lumberton Lumberton Middletown Springs on deck. My name is Janet Young. I was an abortion provider in Vermont. In 1972 the Vermont Women's Health Center opened to provide abortions and gynecological care. This is where I trained to be a physician's assistant. I worked for Vermont Women's Health Center for 27 years and for Planned Parenthood of New England for 10. During that time I never saw a woman choose to end a pregnancy without seriously reflecting on the significance of her choice for herself and others in her life. For some it was the first time they took control over their future. I followed the news as abortion clinics, workers and providers were attacked and even killed. I experienced operation rescue and its attempt to impose their beliefs on us. I saw the torment caused by protestors. I saw the courage and the resolve of patients and colleagues. I was raised Catholic. I believe that life is sacred. All life. That a woman's life is sacred. I believe that women must have autonomy to decide if and when to bear child. This is in her best interest and the best interest of society. All children should be wanted and cared for. Each of us has a world view, a belief system. For some our beliefs are spiritual or religious. The foundation of how we live our lives. No one should force their religious beliefs on another. If you don't believe in abortion, don't have one. Don't impregnate recklessly. It is discouraging that the right to abortion and even contraception is increasingly under attack in this country. Now more than ever, Vermont needs to codify these rights. Please pass age 57. Thank you. Thank you. The one thing we have in common here is that all of us are former fertilized eggs. What privileges we have? How privileged are we to be here and to be debating whether or not another segment of our population should be given the same thing that we were given. All I'm asking you to do is to give others what you've been given. And that's life. You're here. People say that we should not tell others what to do with their body. I tell you that when I had my abortion, I didn't abort my body. It wasn't my body that was aborted. It was my child's body that was aborted. Even though it was safe legal, I suffered from that. My future children suffered from that. I was never told about the risk and the consequences of weakening cervixes and things like that, that abortions do to women. I want to tell you about Abigail. Abigail was my daughter and at 33 weeks, at four pounds four ounces, she was delivered breech. When that doctor put his hand inside of my uterus and pulled down just like forceps do, she jumped so hard she jumped right under my rib, knocked my breath away. Four pounds four ounces, that child was fighting for her life. And children who are fighting against abortion in the womb, that's what they do. If you don't believe it, watch it on ultrasound. Women are not shown ultrasounds because they don't want people to see what happens. If you want to look at why we have abortion and we're not solving the problems of poverty and education and abuse that we've been talking about, follow the revenue stream. It makes money. It provides income for people to support their campaigns to run for office. Don't let it fool you. Give others what you have been given like. Thank you. And for folks who are speaking, there are people down in another room who are listening so that is why you need to speak closely because they haven't been able to hear everything. Thank you. Recently someone said looking back 50 years is not instructive. I beg to differ. I was in high school and college in the 60s. One day a high school girlfriend did not come to school. She was pregnant. So she was sent far away. I never saw or heard of her again. You can a good friend of mine got pregnant.  She had a back alley abortion. She almost bled to death but she did survive, graduated and had children when she was ready to be a mom. Years later I was divorced with two children. I too got pregnant unintentionally. Unlike my high school and college friend, I was able to walk into my local Vermont Planned Parenthood and have a safe legal abortion. I am so grateful to Vermont and Planned Parenthood allowing me to make my own decisions about my body and my future. We must break down the barriers of fear, shame, stigma, and silence in our fight for total unconditional reproductive rights. If we are capable of caring for children and making lifelong decisions for them, we are certainly capable of making decisions for ourselves. Any restriction on abortion is blatant economic discrimination, unfairly impacting women with limited financial needs who don't have the resources to go elsewhere if needed. It is time for politicians and others to get out of the business of playing doctor. Women and qualified medical professionals if needed are the only ones who should be involved in any aspect of our reproductive health care decisions. Only then can women achieve gender equality. Thank you. Thank you. Teresa Burke speaking. Jubilee McGill, Bigport on deck. Last year on February 14th, the nation mourned after 17 human beings were killed in the Parkland School. Governor Scott used the terms heart-wrenching, tragic violence and protecting the most vulnerable in his response. That same week, UVM Medical began performing elective unregulated abortions under our Vermont's Anything Goes policy. The root of the evil and violence that concerned Governor Scott is in Vermont's abortion industry. The basic human right to live is the first of all human rights, on which all other human rights, including any right to democracy, flow. This human right to live wasn't considered historically in most cultures leading up through the Roman Empire prior to 318 AD, when under Constantine, the legalization of abortion and infanticide was ended. Human life was no longer seen as cheap or precious, and as Jewish people had known for centuries before, they were made in the creator's likeness with a soul that would live forever. From then on, western civilization continued to hold an obligation to this fundamental concept of the human's right to live, which developed the ideals of individual freedom, inequality, that became our U.S. Constitution and Bill of Rights. But in Soviet Russia in 1920, in Nazi Germany in 1934, abortion was decriminalized and life was cheapened again. Totalitarian, oppressive states no longer held the obligation to protect the lives and freedoms of their citizens. Our government, in its ignorance or rejection of our freedom's historical and logical foundations, have followed the Soviet and Nazi precedent. Decriminalizing abortion, eradicating the legally recognized inherent human right to live, no longer carrying an obligation to always protect and save human lives like yours and mine. Thank you. Are you almost finished? I can say, let it sink in. Killing humans is wrong. Thank you. Jewel McGill speaking, Debbie Austin, Essex Junction on Deck. The debate around abortion is usually framed around cisgender women. So I would like to acknowledge and hold space for all the citizens of Vermont who do not identify as women but still possess the biological ability to get pregnant because this impacts them as well. We see you and you're an important and valued part of this conversation. I have a friend who had an abortion because she made a mistake and was not emotionally or financially ready to have children. I have a friend who had an abortion because she was raped and could not handle the continued daily trauma of carrying her rapist baby. I have a friend who had an abortion because she was raped by a family member and not only couldn't she handle the trauma, she also couldn't handle the possibility the very likely possibility of having a child with severe physical and mental disabilities due to the close DNA profiles she and her rapist possessed. I have a friend who had an abortion because the baby she had already felt moved inside of her that she had named and that she had already fallen head over heels in love with was diagnosed with physical abnormalities so extreme there was no hope for survival outside of the womb. None of these women took their decision lightly but they thankfully had the ability to make the best decision for themselves. I have a 12 year old daughter who I look at just on the cusp of womanhood and I see what is happening on a national level and I am afraid. I'm afraid that someday she may be in a similar situation and not be afforded agency over her own body. If you are committed to empowering women and believe in equality you must trust women pass this bill and preserve the right for the women of Vermont to make the best decision for their own circumstances. Thank you. They'll be asked in speaking Allison Lutz Wellington on deck. When I was 19 I went to Planned Parenthood for a pregnancy test. At the moment I heard the words it's positive my rational thinking disappeared. Their so-called counseling was minimal and it was focused on abortion. I never was offered any alternatives to abortion or information on fetal development or I was never told about the medical risks, the post-abortion trauma, the future relational problems the nightmares and crying babies I would dream about or the struggles I would have when bearing future children. Eight years later when I found forgiveness in the Lord Jesus Christ I realized that no woman ever wants an abortion. They feel like a trapped animal willing to chew off their paw which is their own unborn child in order to escape the immediate crisis and I wanted to help them. I learned of a young woman planning to have an abortion. I called her and let her know I cared.  She needed to make a choice she could live with for many years to come.  Ten months later she visited relatives in Vermont and I went to meet her. She came over to me and put a little baby girl in my arms with tears in her eyes and said thank you. If you had not called me I would not have her. What a difference this has made in that one little girl's life as she will turn 30 this July and she now has a six year old son and a two year old daughter both who would not be here if she was aborted by her mom. I could tell you many more stories like this and how I've met over 60 women in the state of Vermont who are hurting from their abortions and sadly you'll never hear from them because it's their darkest secret. I once was one of them hurting in silence. Abortion does not help women it just leaves them as mothers of dead babies and if you vote yes on this bill you'll make it so much easier for abortion providers to continue to sell these abortions to hurting women who just need our love and support during their crisis. Not a solution that leaves them with a dead baby. Thank you. Thank you. Alison Lutz speaking Julia Lewis Georgia on deck. Good evening. My name is Dr. Allie Lutz and I'm currently in residency in obstetric gynecology. I chose this field because I truly believe in the strength of women and want to advocate for patient autonomy. House Bill 57 is directly in line with these concepts. I'm fortunate to be in Vermont in this stage of my medical training. Evidence based medicine and patient autonomy are core to the practice of medicine here including in regards to abortion care. I attended medical school in Louisiana where access to abortion has been incrementally restricted. As a result women face increasing hurdles making the procedure less available more expensive and more disruptive to secure. Political interference has undermined women's ability to access the care that they need. In Louisiana a woman with type 1 diabetes in her first trimester of pregnancy presented to the hospital barely conscious. She was admitted to the ICU with diabetic ketoacidosis a potentially fatal condition that can occur with diabetes. After the hospital cessation she was in tears. This pregnancy was unintended and unable to get to a clinic for an abortion.  Another woman with an unintended pregnancy sought termination early on. By the time she scrounged together the money her pregnancy had advanced to the stage that a more complex expensive procedure was required putting the cost out of reach again. This continued until she was nearly 20 weeks when she finally secured the last surgery she needed by skipping her electricity bill. I will always remember the solemn determination with which she underwent the procedure with no sedation because that was a luxury she couldn't afford. She quietly stared at the ceiling with tears streaming down her cheeks knowing she could not continue the pregnancy. Those of us working in women's health care are constantly astounded by our patients but the determination desperation and strength of these women was particularly poignant. These experiences taught me that legislative restrictions on abortion are an emotional and physical toll on women making a decision that is deeply personal and often complex. Thank you. Julia Lewis speaking. Sam Dees Winooski on deck. I wasn't planning to speak with Dominic but I don't want to wake him up. So thank you for... Up close you're pleased we can't hear you. Thank you for hearing our concerns. I have been a therapist for almost 15 years and I've seen firsthand the unique suffering a woman can experience from an abortion.  The research shows that most women feel they have no choice. Many are pressured by their partners, parents or circumstances to have an abortion. Some think in the moment that they are making a free choice but in hindsight realize they were unduly influenced by stress and fear and did not have all the information maturity or clarity of mind to make this kind of choice. My understanding is this discussion is not about repealing abortion altogether but examining one of the most radical bills in the nation without provision of parental notification and allows for abortion past viability which the majority of the population opposes. I know a woman's decision to have an abortion is influenced by many factors and is often very painful and heart-wrenching. 60% of women who had an abortion said they felt that a part of me had died. According to research 65% of women experience some symptoms of post-traumatic stress disorder after an abortion with some meaningful clinical diagnosis.  A late-term abortion is a risk factor for these. This bill is neither about religion nor is it pro-women. This is a human rights issue and women deserve better. Thank you. Sam Dean speaking, Rick Cochran Walden on deck. My name is Dr. Samantha Deans. I'm a chief resident of obstetrics and gynecology. I'm also an abortion provider. I'm here today to urge you to vote in favor of House Bill 57. I'm also here to share a story of one of my patients with her permission and I've changed her name for her privacy. Kate presented to me with a desired planned pregnancy. She and her husband were thrilled to be at 37 years old pregnant for the first time. At the 20-week ultrasound, my patient and her partner were hit with the news that their daughter would never grow to be the child that they had wished for. The baby was found to have multiple malformations seen on ultrasound. This was confirmed further after genetic testing revealed the diagnosis of trisomy 18. This is largely a lethal fetal anomaly and the baby's other malformations made this diagnosis terminal. They were devastated. In learning more about this condition, it became clear to Kate that the amount of suffering her child would experience if born was not acceptable to her as an option. She and her partner came to the decision that ending this pregnancy was the most loving and humane decision they could make for their unborn child. Unfortunately, Kate had federal insurance that only covered abortion in the case of rape, incest, or threat to the mother's life. They refused to pay for her procedure despite certain suffering and death from her child. But luckily for Kate, she lives in Vermont where a woman's right to choose is supported. Resources from the community came together to secure funding for Kate. She made the compassionate and heartbreaking decision to undergo a surgical termination of pregnancy at 21 weeks gestational age. This story highlights two key points. The first is that women make incredibly personal and often painful decisions when it comes to choosing whether to continue or end a pregnancy. This is not something that requires regulation or barriers. The second is that we are privileged to live in Vermont where women are trusted and supported in their reproductive freedoms. I trust women. I trust them to make this decision for themselves and their families. I support this bill because in passing this bill, the State of Vermont is affirming that trust. Thank you. Rick Cochran speaking. Katelyn Gregory Davis Burlington on that. Remember your first experience staying at a friend's house, your first relationship, the first time you experienced the loss of a loved one. As we grow older, we realize that our relationships to our family, friends, and deity are most important. If you're chosen to support H57, please remember that you would not be debating this issue if your mothers or grandmothers had made the choice for which you're advocating. As we grow and mature, we learn that life's choices have consequences. Choice is important, but as a great heart surgeon who worked to prolong life, a man who understands well the science and a leader of faith, Russell M. Nelson said, quote, terminating the life of a developing baby involves two individuals with separate bodies, brains, and hearts. A woman's choice for her body does not include the right to deprive her baby of life and a lifetime of choices that her child would make. Close quote. I personally asked one of our legislatures members who supports this bill about the extreme scenario as a baby being born and upon the birth of the mother, upon the birth the mother in exasperation says, I just cannot do this. And I said, what happens at this point? Sadly, she said that is between the mother and her doctor. The talking points for the pro-abortion perspective suggest that such things are not happening. And yet H57 allows for it. This is horrendous. It's despicable.  Why the rest of the bill? Why promote the destruction and tearing apart of babies? This is not our vision for the future of Vermont. May God bless each of you to vote no for H57. Thank you. Thank you. Kaelin Gregory-Deva speaking, Robert Orlich Randolph-Ondeck. Hello, I am a student at UVM College of Medicine. Before this, I worked as a midwife and a counselor at a clinic that provides abortions throughout pregnancy. I share my experience today to provide perspective on the multifaceted complexities that lead to abortions later in pregnancy. From years in this work, I can attest that abortion is never a light decision. To give some insight, I'll share one story. This patient was a 14 year old who had just started high school when her mom's child began sexually assaulting her. She endured this abuse alone and didn't know where to turn when she realized she was pregnant. She was ashamed as well as terrified of her abuser and the possibility of disrupting her family's life. Months passed before the truth came out. Due to restrictive laws, the mother-daughter pair traveled hours across state lines to find a clinic willing to help. When she walked through our doors, it was painfully evident that the real truth was not the abortion, but rather the horrific sexual abuse and the laws that forbid her from receiving necessary care closer to home. Unfortunately, this story is not an exception nor is it far-fetched. This patient is just one of many facing a variety of tough realities that lead to abortion later in pregnancy. As a medical student, I will tell you the training is rigorous and ethical principles are central to the education. Doctors who provide their abortions engage in careful consideration as to what is medically appropriate and ethically sound and so do women who seek their services. We cannot possibly foresee nor legislate for every scenario, but what we can do is place trust in our common humanity. We can trust that when faced with difficult decisions, women are able to make the decisions that's best for their bodies and their families. Every circumstance is unique. We must recognize and support the decisions involved in the decision to terminate a pregnancy. Thank you. Thank you. Robert Oleg speaking. Gretchen Morse, Charlotte. On deck. Once upon an ancient time, certain cultures engaged in child sacrifice killing perfect wonderful children on the altar of false gods. It was not always so, but that practice continues in our day and time. In Vermont, something evil this way came with the 1972 decision of Beach & Versus Leahy in the Vermont Supreme Court Building just down the street where the justices put their stamp of approval on child sacrifice giving it different terms. A child became a fetus and the god was not bail, but was convenience and material things as they ruled that a woman could sacrifice the board for fully developed, even perfect child up to the time of delivery for any reason or no reason at all. Child sacrifice at ancient times in abortion of a fetus in our times as the same result, death. This case in Roe v. Wade, a year later resulted in the wrongful deaths of 100,000 pre-born children. The building where we speak tonight entertains a resolution each year to celebrate Roe vs. Wade.  Now by age 57 they seek to totally desecrate this place of law and justice by enshrining in the law right to kill a baby up to the moment before delivery. They have already passed the law to allow people to commit suicide without their doctor. If age 57 passes they will have taken one more step to totally embrace the death culture destined to destroy us all physically and so many eternally. And they can go even further. Age 57 will strip all rights under the mount wall for the unborn. If they can do that for these humans they can do it to Jews, African-Americans, and other inconvenient humans. Will they legalize the killing of a baby after birth for parents who develop second thoughts? That is coming. Thank you. Here 40 years ago in this chamber considering all kinds of proposals that would make it safe and legal for women to choose abortion in the state of Vermont and I just felt very obligated to come here on record with you in support of age 57. Thank you for your very careful and thoughtful deliberation. This bill in my opinion is a clear proactive women's right to choose proposal. It protects at a time when there is uncertainty in our land. A woman's right to have a safe and legal abortion in the state of Vermont and it prohibits absolutely anything that would interfere with a woman's right to self-determination and access to safe legal abortions. Someone mentioned the word trust. And I just have to say that one of the things in the last four years both in this legislature and our leadership in government is that there has always been a priority on the trust that women can have in this state for a safe medically well-determined physician-patient obligation for a good decision as to how women's health should be honored and practiced. So I just want to thank you for your consideration and wish you the best of luck. Thank you. Barbara Olex speaking. Catherine Schubert. Heinzberg on deck. I am blessed being the mother of two and the grandmother of three. Can you speak up? Thank you. Thank you. I am blessed being the mother of two and the grandmother of four wonderful beautiful children. Children are a gift from God. All lives begin at conception and they all matter. God gave the right to life and no one, not even a potential mother, has really the right to destroy the baby that God has given. It is terrifyingly wrong to have an abortion at any point of the child's development. I can understand there are many reasons why women might make such a bad choice, but no matter their reason, the action is wrong. The consequences of which she will carry this for the rest of her life, I cannot understand what evil must possess and for women to carry a child up to the time of delivery and then choose to destroy this perfect miracle of God. It can only be something very evil for this to happen. It is even more evil for an elected law maker to create a law that would allow such a killing. What are they thinking? What's next? The death culture law will lead to a legal killing of a child after birth when convenient for the parents. How do you protect anyone from this reach? By ensuring that all humans, through a time of conception, to natural death, are protected to ensure their God-given right to life living in happiness. I am so shocked at my two representatives, J. Harper and Ben Jekling for sponsoring this evil will, and I appeal to you to remove their name from it. Women in this country will have an abortion in their lifetimes, and we know that around the world there are many millions more. Those women are very often not protected by the law. Their privacy or their access to health care and medical support to have an abortion if they wish to. The statistics of women in these other countries are very high from back alley abortions, as we would call them, are horrific, and I do not see us going backwards in this country when we have made it much healthier for women in every way, and the numbers of abortions are going down, and obviously the numbers of deaths from abortions have gone to practically nothing. Thank you. Lawrence Zupan speaking. Nancy Thorpe, Waterbury on deck. Ladies and gentlemen, ladies and gentlemen, I come before you today to speak against H57. I do not address you with the intention of persuading all pro-choice legislators over monitors to suddenly become pro-life. Whatever your views on abortion, I ask you to consider the following facts of the proposed H57 legislation. One, abortion is made legal for any reason at any time with no restrictions or parental consent required up to and including during labor. Two, there's no requirement that a doctor take steps to comfort or save a baby born alive from a botched abortion staring back at them from the birth table. Three, the fetus has no rights, meaning that there would be no legal restriction on the dismemberment and sale of baby body parts or baby corpses being sold for lab research. Four, there's no provision to require anesthetizing a pain-capable baby, no restrictions on the cruelest abortion methods. Five, there's no requirement to be licensed in any way, say, as a medical doctor to perform abortions. Now, at a time when our legislature ironically considers bills to protect animals from similar treatment, one might stop and ask if this bill goes too far down the road to dehumanization and institutionalized cruelty. Gallup polls found in 2013 that 80% of Americans believe abortion should be illegal in the last three months. Why would our legislature side with the heartless 20% fringe? Setting aside political polarization, I ask you all to imagine the horror of a baby moments away from seeing daylight and breathing its first breath being destroyed with less mercy than that shown a rabid animal. Pro-life or pro-choice, can you let this be done in your name as a voting citizen or legislator in Vermont? Thank you. Thank you. Nancy Thorpe speaking Steve Pratt of Northfield on deck. Thank you. Adam Hitler said, I use a motion for the many reasons for the few. I realize this is a very heated and emotional issue for most. I'm not here today to speak to your emotions. I'm here today to appeal to your sense of reason. It's easy to dismiss it as a life when you think it's just a blob of cells. But by day 22, that blob has its own heart that is beating with its own blood and blood type. Most women don't even know they're pregnant at this point. Its brain waves are detectable by week 6 and it has all of its organs by week 8. It can feel pain by week 11, dream by week 17 and survive outside the mother's room by week 22. More than 55 million abortions have been performed in the U.S. since 1973. It's estimated that at today's rates 25% of women in the U.S. will have an abortion by the age of 45. Young women between the ages of 15 to 19 account for 12.2% of those abortions. Women in their 20s have the highest abortion rate at 58%. Most are unwed mothers. 1.5% are the result of rape or incest. This means only a small percentage are performed in the case of rape or incest or where the mother's life is in danger. Sadly, it also means that abortion is being used as a primary source of birth control. We've come from a stance of safe, legal, and aware to dangerous, imposed, and frequent. This is not a women's rights issue or a man versus woman issue or even an issue regarding choice. This is killing for the sake of convenience. Thank you. Steve Platt speaking, Dwayne Tucker, Berry Town on deck. If a woman was out in the community or in her own home and was attacked, if the woman was injured or not but the fetus was killed, that's considered murder to whoever the attacker would be. But the same woman can choose to do away with the same baby child unborn. That also is murder. Not to say that that unborn person could be our next, let's say, Dr. Kevorkian, Steven, what's his name, that great scientist or our next president, somebody that will help our society to advance. I believe that this bill is murder to the human society and our state is advertising for outsiders to come in and pay them $10,000, but yet we want to kill our next generation that us older people need to support us as we grow old. And that's what I would have to say. It is murder. Thank you. Dwayne Tucker speaking, Kathleen Lynch of Barrington on deck. Excuse me for a moment. Dwayne, you signed up for the pro side of the bill and you have an anti-sticker. So I'm going to put a stop for a second. Jennifer Holt, are you here? Are you speaking in support of pro? I'm just checking to make sure. Kara Boucher, are you a pro? Okay. You may go ahead, but I want you to know that two of you signed up and identified as supporting the bill and we are trying to do this in a fair way and you identified yourselves in a different position. So I certainly don't support the bill. Okay, go ahead. Good evening everyone. My name is Dwayne Tucker. I sit here on behalf of myself and the people of Washington County. Vermont representatives have once again proven its lack of capacity concern and compassion for the young adults in our state. Vermont has again shown us how easily our leaders are able to open a severely infectious wound allowing it to poison the moral fiber of the youth in our state. The infection is the Barbaric age 57 abortion rights bill. My stance on abortion although maybe confusing is no choice for reasons we all know of for which I will not go into detail. I believe every woman and only that woman has the right to make decisions that impact her body however the concerning aspects of this bill are as follows. Chapter 222 reproductive rights section 9493 individual reproductive rights. Every individual who becomes pregnant has the fundamental right to choose to carry a pregnancy to term, give birth to a child or have an abortion. C, a fertilized egg embryo, a fetus, shall not have independent rights per Vermont law. No state or local law enforcement shall prosecute any individual for inducing, performing, or attempting to induce or perform the individual's own abortion. This means that your daughter, your niece, or someone that you might care about greatly legally no matter what age can obtain an abortion without notifying or confiding in a sibling of a legal age, a legal guardian, or a parent let that sink in. Were you capable of making that kind of decision without any guidance or support from an adult you trusted at the age of 15? Could you imagine being a parent and not knowing that your daughter of 15 needs you more now than for guidance, love and support at the moment more than ever before? As a loving parent I wouldn't want to imagine how alone she would feel or how an unsupported decision would haunt her forever. Thank you. Thank you.  Motherhood means sacrifice and it is a role that should be revered. I am here as a registered nurse with a professional Vermont state nursing license. Throughout my education I was not trained in abortion nor was it included in my national nursing board examination. Vermont is a small state. I may have cared for you or will care for you in the future. As a surgical nurse I am privileged to keep you safe, provide comfort and reassurance. I collaborate with your surgical team and allay your anxiety as you receive anesthesia. What I am unable to do is assist in the termination of your baby. When we care for women of child bearing age we often obtain a year in pregnancy test to plan for the safest care of the patient. If we find our patient is pregnant we now have two patients in the operating room and must adhere to safety policies for both mother and baby. Anesthetic medication position and considerations are discussed by the team to afford the best outcome for both mother and child. If UVM were a center where pre-birth surgical procedures were done these babies would be recognized as our patients with hope for a healthy future. Healthy mother healthy baby is the goal in maternity nursing. The mandate of elective abortion in the past year has proven far more challenging than the strike we endured this summer. It has created an emotional fracture among my staff and a challenge for managers who must make appropriate assignments for the many surgical specialties. By adding this moral dilemma abortion causes strain on the daily schedule from pre-op to the operating room to recover from staff. These cases do not happen at Planned Parenthood. They happen in my workplace. In one instance as a young, new OR nurse I told my next case would be an incomplete abortion from Planned Parenthood on Mansfield Avenue. I had no preparation and was not ready to observe the surgeon searching for body parts on my sterile field. I vowed I would speak my conscience since that day and have been inadvertently assigned determination since that time. Kathleen could you please wrap up. In one instance recently I entered the operating room and the surgeon told me in detail I'm living the dream. I read the printed schedule. Thank you. Which is down. Thank you. The end of your two minutes is up. I have a son. Thank you. Thank you. Jennifer Holt speaking. Robert Haverich, Marshfield on deck. Hi. I've served as a prosecutor, children's lawyer, public interest lawyer and legal scholar.  I hold a degree in religion and I'm a Christian. I strongly support passage of age 57 consistent with the first 8th, 13th amendments and the right to liberty. The right to liberty and the 13th amendment arise from our inalienable right to use our bodies as we choose, including our right to reproductive choice. The 8th amendment prohibits the cruel and unusual punishment of government compelled reproductive enslavement. Without these rights women are slaves. The choice to abort a fetus is an exercise of faith. The First Amendment protects my belief that ensolment of the fetus does not happen at conception. The Jeremiah 1.5 refers to God's relationships with our souls not to our corporeal bodies. My God does not waste individuals by discarding those that might have found homes in miscarried or aborted feces. He is not a slaver. He grants free will and reproductive choice. I believe abortion should be safe, legal and rare. I never had an abortion but I support the women who have, including my mother who had an abortion before Robi Wade. I see nothing inconsistent in the goals of prohibiting slavery and reducing unwanted pregnancies. Biologically fetuses are potential human life as our blood, rivers and kidneys. Our laws have never granted rights to potential life. They incrementally grant rights beginning at birth and culminating at adulthood. Please pass age 57 now to protect women from the abhorrent evil of slavery and then pass legislation to reduce unwanted pregnancies so that fewer women will be forced to make this choice. Godspeed. Thank you. Robert Havrick speaking. The next speaker is Dr. Martin on deck. Thank you. Satan's pawns are carrying out his evil agenda and he calls it choice. Age 57 or horrible 57 is an abortion murder bill. This bill puts no restricts on any abortions. Horrible 57 allows premeditated murder of the innocent. There is another bill that makes it illegal to sell animal parts. What about the unborn children? not animals, they're human beings. And if aborted, they would never giggle, have their first day of school, play in the playground, and make their first grand drawing, they'd probably display on the refrigerator. They would never say mama for the first time. There are many folks who are more than willing to adopt and give these children the life they deserve. The aborted child might be the one who cures car childhood cancer, Alzheimer's, or some other dreadful disease. What about all those people I see holding the sides of Black Lives Matter? Do you really believe Black Lives Matter? If you believe it is horrible, abortion bill, you're hypocrites.  We are going to be held accountable for every thought, word, deed that we do in this life. The result is eternal damnation. That's the bad news, but don't despair. This is the good news. You can repent right now, believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and be saved, there's still time. Jesus wants a relationship with you, not religion.   I'm here to show the way to a wonderful merciful Savior where the Roman soldiers were nailed to the cross. He said, Father, forgive him, they know not what they do.  Stand with God, not play in pound hope. Thank you, Cal Cushman, speaking, Kira Boucher. Pardon me. On deck. Thank you. My name is Cal Cushman. I'm the deputy executive director of the Vermont College Democrats, and I'm proud to be delivering this testimony on behalf of the College Democrats of Vermont. Abortion is a fundamental right. The right to choose whether or not to terminate a pregnancy is an individual decision between a doctor and a patient. The personal right to have an abortion must not be regulated by a decision made in Montpelier, nor one made in Washington. Now more than ever, the right to safe abortions is under attack. With a more anti-choice Supreme Court bench than ever before, it is up to you to establish safeguards for this fundamental right to choose. And this conversation isn't happening just here in Montpelier. It's happening on university and college campuses, in doctors' waiting rooms, and state houses across the country. Vermont House of Representatives, your counterparts in New York had this as their first priority before passing legislation on infrastructure, on education, or on commerce. They established this right, this fundamental right, because they recognized the sheer gravity of this issue. It's easy to talk about this legislation in the abstract while in this room. It's easy to think about this as a national movement that Vermont must take part of while in this room. But it's hard for many of you to visualize how this conversation would play out in college dorm rooms. Students on Vermont's campuses are scared that they are going to lose their essential protection of choice.  Without federal checks, protections, or this legislation, an accidental pregnancy would reshape a student's entire life all within the blink of an eye. The right to an abortion protects them against being forced to do one of the most important decisions and gives young people freedom to decide their own future. Today, the College Democrats of Vermont urges you to pass this legislation as it protects not only the consent, safety, and choice, but it sends a message to young people across Vermont that they represent them. Thank you. Thank you. Caribouche on speaking, Nathaniel Helms of Burlington on deck. According to the National Sexual of Islands Research Center, one in five women will be raped during her life. Although there are countless reasons why a woman may choose to have an abortion, I am strongly opposed to the notion that a rape victim should be forced to carry the child of her attacker. Although this may seem an extreme example, it is reality for many women and cannot go unacknowledged. Regardless of circumstance, each woman should have the right to decide what happens to her own body without question or fear of judgment. A fetus is entirely dependent on its mother, a massive commitment and responsibility, both physically and emotionally, that not everyone is prepared to take on. Arguments posed about the rights of the unborn fetus, the so-called voiceless, should not silence the pleading voice of a living, participating woman in society who is unwanted of her pregnancy. Abortion will exist whether or not it is safe and legal, and no woman should feel the need and her own pregnancy will in turn risking her life, but this has and will always happen. If we do not have jurisdiction over our own physical bodies, we have nothing. Conversation is not enough when it comes to moving forward with female rights and empowerment. Let the passing of Bill H-57 in Vermont be an example. Thank you. Nathaniel Helms speaking, Scarlett Moore, Burlington. Hi, dear Vermont legislators, I'm a surgeon at the University of Vermont Medical Center and I'm very concerned about this proposed Bill H-57. The Vermont Medical Society has voiced support for this legislation, but as a member of this society, my voice and that of many other medical professionals in our state are not being heard. This legislation places no value on human life in utero and denies science and reason by denying any rights to individual human lives that exist prior to physical birth. Recently I had an opportunity to discuss H-57 with my local representative who is the primary sponsor of the bill. She feels the bill is necessary to codify what is already allowed in Vermont. My representative does not seem concerned about possible negative effects of the legislation and is confident that individual institutions and healthcare providers will practice in a responsible manner without government interference. I do not share her confidence in this assumption. In January 2018 it was reported in the media that the UVM Medical Center Board of Trustees removed a 40 year restriction on most non-medically necessary abortions. The change in policy occurred early in the fall of 2017 and completely elective abortions began soon after in 2017. There was no notification of the change in policy to most of the hospital staff until months later in 2018. After the media report, staff including myself asked hospital leadership how the change in policy was being managed and what new policies were put in place since the policy change. Much to my surprise, there was no formal written policy on abortion at UVM that could be provided to me by any of the senior leaders. I met with leaders including the Chief Operations Officer of the hospital, the president of the UVM Medical Group, the hospital chief of staff, the chief medical officer and the chair of obstetrics and gynecology. I spoke with members of the clinical ethics team who told me that they wanted to be involved in the development of an elective of pregnancy termination policy but they were specifically asked not to attend any meetings on that topic. Recently, I met with the new head of clinical ethics. There is an ongoing effort to write a policy on elective pregnancy termination. Despite some efforts to involve ethics in these cases going forward, it is not clear that any ethics committee recommendations will result in more than a suggestion to the physicians. And I might add- Are you saying you could just- Yes, I would just like to add in my discussions with the hospital chief of staff and the COO of the hospital, there was a clear commitment to having no restrictions on abortion at the UVM Medical Center. Thank you. Above and beyond what the model of that was. Thank you, families. Thank you. Skyler Moore speaking, Jacqueline Becker, Fairfax on deck. I would like to start by saying I think it's incredibly important to recognize that women have no responsibility to be mothers unless they choose to intentionally through their own agency and through their own autonomy over their bodies and over their lives. And I feel incredibly strongly that legislation like H57, which codifies these rights of women, are incredibly important not only for the social and economic equity of cisgender women, but also of queer women of transgender and non-binary people. And that I think as a student, as a young person, I'm very lucky to live in the state of Vermont. And I hope that legislation like this both will be passed and will serve to set precedents for the rights of people in other states who need to access reproductive health care, including abortion. I wasn't sure if I was going to speak today, but I think it's really important that more young people do. I, it's, you know, this can be a controversial issue. I think that for folks who are not in favor of abortion, I certainly encourage you to make your own decisions about your own bodies, but never to infringe on my right to make decisions about mine. And yeah, I will stop there, but just I really encourage legislators of Vermont to pass this bill and to stand behind women and queer people in their struggle for equity and equality in this country and around the world. Thank you. Jacqueline Becker speaking. Kate Bailey, South Burlington on deck. Good afternoon, good evening. I'm Jackie Becker of Fairfax. Thank you for giving me the chance to speak today. Can you hear me okay? Could you get a little closer please? Oh, I guess not. Okay. I was born just a few years before World View Wade, the US Supreme Court decision that made abortion legal throughout all nine months of pregnancy. I was born to teenage parents who were only 16 years old when I was conceived. My birth mother was very traumatized, especially since my conception was not consensual. Yes, she was attacked. At the age of two months, I was adopted by my wonderful parents through New Hampshire Catholic Charities. My brother who also was adopted and I are very grateful to God that we were given the gift of life. I thank God that abortion was not a legal option when my brother and I were conceived. My birth mother, whom I did meet later in life, did tell me that she did not want to break the law. Due to the traumatic way I was conceived, I may not be here today if we apply today's standards of society where women are told to, quote, get rid of the problem, unquote. My birth mother, her mother, and my adoptive parents, mom and dad, are heroes for choosing life for me. They each took a bad situation and turned it into good, life, and life is always good. Since 1973, when World View Wade became the law of the land, our society has been told differently that abortion is okay in some circumstances. I am one of those circumstances. There is no need to end the life of an unborn child. My life is just as valuable as those lives conceived in love. When you look at our ultrasounds, we look the same. Why should a child be given the death penalty for the crime of their father? Please join me in being a voice for the voiceless and say no to this bill. Thank you. Thank you. Kate Bailey speaking, Donna McSully, Essex Junction, on deck. Hello, my name is Kate Bailey. I work at the Office of the Healthcare Advocate at Vermont Legal Aid. But I come here tonight to speak from my own experience and to ask you to support H57. This bill moves us from the status quo of passive reproductive rights to a proactive step towards reproductive justice, defined as the right to maintain personal bodily autonomy, have children, not have children, and parent the children we have in a safe, sustainable community. Last year, my dear friend gave birth to a beautiful baby boy at UVM Medical Center. A week later, she hemorrhaged and needed emergency surgery. The procedure to save her life after childbirth was called dilation and evacuation. It's a common procedure used also for surgical abortions. Similarly, in my 30s now, I have friends who have miscarried planned pregnancies. A treatment common for miscarriages is a prescription for misoprostol. It's a drug used for medication abortion. Both of these examples here illustrate that much of what goes into terminating a pregnancy is common in maternal health care. It's health care. There is nothing particularly special or scary about abortion as a medical procedure. What is scary and harmful is the stigmatized rhetoric and regulations that make abortion expensive, inaccessible, and at worst criminal for folks seeking this care. H57 has important protections to statute which already acknowledges the consequences of state sanctioned reproductive injustices of our past. We have a dark history in Vermont of eugenics. Many members of our indigenous Abenaki community, immigrants of French Canadian descent, and disabled people were forcibly sterilized well into the 20th century. It is no more right to force pregnancy than to force sterilization. Now let's not wait to respond retroactively to injustices again. Now it is true that there still may be plenty of women who will be able to access abortion if H57 does not pass. The real truth is that those folks with access will be whiter, they'll be cisgender, wealthier, have more education and live closer to hospitals. They will have more privilege. I'm almost done. In my day job as a healthcare advocate, I hear from Vermonters who struggle with access to healthcare across the street. State. Thank you. There are already too many barriers for Vermonters who are rural or people of color. Your two minutes are up, I'm sorry. You need to get up out of your seat. We'd like the responsibility of access to a patient and anything else. Thank you. Donna McSully speaking.  Thank you for letting me speak here. Again, thank you for letting me speak here. I oppose the bill H57 because abortion is the direct intentional killing of an unborn human. And I also oppose the euphemism that's used to distract us from this barbaric act, pro-choice. The term pro-choice is a renaming strategy used to confuse people and to shift away from the real issue. It's a tried and true fallacy typically used to shut down debate. The debate is this. Are the unborn human? If it's growing, isn't it alive? If it has human parents, isn't it human? All humans are valuable, aren't they? To discriminate over a human being's size, developmental growth, or their dependency on another should never be loud in our country. In fact, it's actually our duty to protect and defend the defenseless. The pro-choice ideology uses similar arguments used in past history that is allowed for the oppression of a group of people. These same ideals have allowed government to legalize the persecution of the Native Americans, the slavery of African people, the genocide of the Jewish and Ukrainian holocausts, and the child sacrifices of the Aztecs. These crimes were carried out by educated people who were swept away by popular culture into thinking that these people, these groups of people were somehow less human. Age 57 would put us on the wrong side of history because it justifies infanticide. This choice that you want to give an individual woman actually affects all of us as a nation and corrupts our principles. Thank you. Thank you very much. And our last speaker will be Wendy Farnwick. Thank you so much for your patience and willingness to listen to all of us this evening. It's been a real education for me and I appreciate it. I believe that all children should be wanted. I am here for my 15-year-old daughter, her friends, all women, older women, all colors, all shapes, all sizes, to be able to have the choice to take care of themselves and do what they choose to do for their health and their bodies. I'm an older mom, 49, and I had my first child at 40 and my second at 43. It's the hardest job that I've ever had. I love it, but it's difficult, and these are children that I wanted and want and love with all my heart and my soul. When I was in my 20s, I was in a loving relationship with my partner and I had failed birth control and had two abortions at that time in my 20s. I wasn't ready. I wasn't ready emotionally. I wasn't ready career-wise or educationally. I would not have been a good mom. I've been told that I'm a great mom now. I feel that myself because I chose to have my kids late in life when I had gotten all my yas yas out and maybe I'm a tiny bit wiser than I was in my 20s. So I don't think I have anything else to say other than this is a health decision for women and I trust that my daughter and her friends and all women can make that decision and I support this bill because it scares me that now what's going on nationally and that we might lose this ability to choose for ourselves. So thank you so much. Thank you very much. We have heard from 28 people who are four. We have heard from 28 people who are four and 28 people who were against. Two people who were against this bill chose to go in the line that says you are there to support the bill. And so in the spirit of giving equal opportunity for both sides to participate, the fact that two people chose to sign up on the wrong side. Everybody else, I'm sorry, the hearing is over. Anyone who is not able to testify, they are welcome to please submit your comments in writing. Thank you very much. I'm wondering if you got a list of names on the speakers. I don't know. I don't know. Yeah. I mean, turn it off. Okay. Okay. So, if we'll be released on the audience, we'll go to the chair.