Boom So we are back for part two. We apologize for any Inconvenience that was kind of lame That was kind of lame. I don't know Should be working at I see people joining. So hopefully audio is working now. You'll get back at it in a short moment Long time no see mother fuckers. Thank you guys. You tuned into the UFO UFO classified show I did earlier. Thanks for everyone who showed up there. I appreciate it. All right. We bet we're back All right And we have comments again. Yeah, we have comments again. I did that to me the last time I was doing an Auction it did the same Yeah, you just stop so yeah, it just froze on me and I wasn't seeing what people are saying I think it happens when I pin comments now. It just screws up the chat Don't pin no pinning no more comment all the quality in the comments no favoritism. No no pegging. Here we go. Oh, man Okay, so let's resume part two part two. So You know, I do think I do think that the I do think that all the public commentary this week calling out Certain people is one of the better ways. I mean someone asked. Well, how do you educate the public? Right? So some of it is like just like the stuff that we're doing right now Right where we do we do a show that's not like that It's not all about us or whatever and we try to talk about different different aspects of the weed industry and different content and some history and different things because Educating people is the best way to get people on your side, right? And I talk about Matt with Matt all the time about this where it's like You know, we really have to like build a coalition Yeah, it's going it's going to be political in a way or a Yeah, or a syndicate as the case may be but we have to we have to build a syndicate of like-minded people And they can be pretty diverse and the important part is that we don't want to eliminate a ton of people We want to like have a general set of goals Yeah, be all-inclusive and you know, whether whether your politics or this or that like, you know You gotta be relatively accepting of people to share those same basic goals. Yeah, right? And so for me those basic goals are like not only do I want me to be legal I want it to be easily accessible. I want it to be high quality and I want people to be able to do what they want with it Yeah, you know, and so I feel like and you know, I know that you rolled your eyes for a second when I said Oh, we're winning but in a sense, you know, because it does feel like for cannabis industry people It does feel like a pretty dark time Right, there's a lot of change happening fast the pricing Which used to like fuel the insurgency if you will.  And so when prices were higher The insurgency in America as far as like, you know wheat rights or whatever was was better funded Yeah, as the price falls apart in various things a lot of people start to struggle You know But then you know the side benefit is a lot more people get into it. Yeah Right. So like the coalition can get way way way bigger than it ever was before. Yeah Right, so that's an it might be scary for all of us like who depend on it solely, right? Because change is scary But so what it boils down to is the reason why I said we're winning is because for half my life They told me we couldn't have it and now they want to steal it from us But they weren't successful in preventing anything we wanted to do before Yeah, even though we had to battle them for a long time to eventually get to where we wanted to go Yeah, so I don't view it Per I don't view it all that much different than that Yeah, it's just like the goals and the and and the idea has changed Yeah, sure has right we're going from like access and And freedom and not being jailed and all that to like now we get to choose like well How do we want we to look how do we want it to be like? right and oh, you know, so There's a there's an aspect of it where it's like I Feel like people have had access to most except there's a couple people on here who disagree But there's the most people have access to pretty good weed Yeah, there's some there's some there's you know There's some people sadly that have been exposed to a bunch of jank if you will and are unhappy with their access to weed But lots of people's access to weed has gotten much better Yeah, clone trading is easier even if you don't have I mean I don't like clone sellers all that much to some degree But to be honest like if you it might be a lot of people's only way to get at certain things Yeah, right so it's available and it's out there and it's like it's not it's not it's like you can build a collection now With some money. Yeah, if you have finances you can at least be given the illusion that you're getting something with Yeah, and that's and in some ways that's more that could be that could be as satisfying as waiting around to get into the right groups For years and years before you start getting some access to some of this stuff Yeah, so even though it's negative in some ways There's positive in other ways because my whole goal with weed is More people smoking better weed.  And that's hard and that's that's that's fair because really I mean we were we're gonna jump around I guess a little bit if we start talking about that, but Basically, that's the fight. Okay, and so Instagram we like to get into a lot of petty fights with one another Okay, there might even be someone that like, you know as participated in a petty fight every now and again Asshole some of them are good. Some of them are good nature and good-hearted some of them are a little bit more You know, but we got to pick our battles because it's like, you know, you might be battling with someone But like both of you were like, well, I'm not I don't believe in working with cops. Yeah So we have this consensus, right? Right where you know, we want a consensus of better weed and I'll tell a story for a second because there's an aspect of this that I think is the truth is You know when When we made alcohol illegal with the with the whatever amendment it was, right?  Yeah They overgrew overdrank if you were they think they were seeing a lot of tax dollars go out the side And yeah, and so and so but then there's an aspect, right where? For the next like 50 or 60 years after they legalized it.  There was a bunch So I guess what I'm basically saying is that it broke the quality. It broke the relationship to quality for a while, right? Decades even and everybody could choose between Cours or Micka Loeb or Budweiser or Old style or frickin, you know keystone or you know, it's all cheap shitty Pilsner's Yeah, right and then there was this like revolution that happened which was basically like people deciding Well, what if we just brewed good beer? Yeah, right micro breweries. Yeah, and now You know the Budweiser Budweiser makes half the barrels it makes a Budweiser now that it did in the 90s Yeah, half and it was one of the biggest beer companies in the nation You know, they ended up buying 15 or 18 micro brews Yeah, because they want they didn't want to lose their micro their share But what I mean by that is that what's going to come is people are going to try to start selling really cheap really shitty weed for Expensive. Yeah, and hoping that's your only option and you just deal with it Yeah, and a lot of people don't know that there are better options and you know to read And you're going to these like, you know legal states or whatever That are that you know that maybe some of them don't have the greatest history That some of the more fortunate states do in terms of like large amounts of growers and access to really good weed They might have had you know, Mexican or beasters or you know, sort of a low grade of what comes from the better states You know shipped to their state and now it's legal and so you have to push for you have to push for better weed Yeah, you know because they're gonna try to sell you okay weed for high prices Yeah, and you have to vote with your dollars on better weed, you know And then if your doll if you can't find better weed then grow your own and keep your dollars in your pocket and spend it on something else Yeah, you know, and then eventually if enough people don't buy shitty weed. They'll have a really hard time with shitty weed I just think that's such a utopian way of I mean, it's true. This is true What you're saying it is logic and it's true I just think it's such a utopian view to hope that that will happen Well, why so here's the ballmark is the biggest supplier in yeah, but okay, but let's let's put it this way Right and there and here's the gig. There's nothing wrong with that either because There's plenty of people out there that probably can't afford the quality of weed that we like to smoke sure right And so they might have to get lesser quality weed Yeah, so there's stuff like that. There's always gonna be you know an existence of the low quality There's gonna be some people that are like I'm fine with this weed I'm gonna put it in a metal pipe with a screen that I never clean and it gets me high and I don't care Or mix it with tobacco and fucking yeah or mix it with tobacco or whatever that and that's okay, too I'm not trying to be some snob, but what I'm saying is is that like when I was it when I was a kid Okay, the only way you could get organic food was like on dead tour or like crunchy organic co-ops Yeah right you know what I'm saying and and now There's whole foods and there's all these high-end stores and there's organic food in almost every normal grocery store Yeah, right because people demanded a better grade and they were willing to pay more for it And now all of a sudden it's everywhere when I was in the 90s you could not find organic food in a normal grocery store Oh, yeah, yeah There's stores.  Maybe it existed and maybe it didn't You know and so you know if you say oh, we can't do that Walmart's the biggest we can because we did it with food Yeah, and you know it wasn't just hippies. Here's the thing.  My wife is hot and gets plastic surgery like I make a lot of money a year I have a vacation home in Breckenridge. Why am I why am I shopping at the same place that everybody else shops? I want nicer food. Yeah You don't think they're not gonna want fucking 120-day haze at some point some of the first places I saw organic stuff popping up in California was places like Santa Barbara You know like like really well-to-do areas in like beach communities I started seeing lots of organics And now it's now it's spread everywhere So there's I mean so there's a there's enough people that are gonna want high-grade good-smoking weed To have a huge market of high-grade weed It doesn't have to be the whole market You know it has to be enough of the market to supply that We just want craft Right, but yeah, but the thing is is that like all those yuppies that I just mentioned that did that's organic food When they what do you what kind of weed do you think they want to buy the thing is food is different than weed food? Food one is it's necessary Everybody eats food. Not everybody smokes weed. Everybody's eating food They're like I'm having experience with quality not everybody has smoked weed their whole life It has experience with quality to no quality when they're getting it I mean you could see I could see yuppies buying $80 cookies eights and these baggies and thinking they're getting the supreme quality and they can be They can be confused into it And I think we're gonna see a lot of that because they would have to search out the education You can't force education on these people. It's going to it's going to take time It will take time in in the organic food case. We're talking over a 20 or 30 year period, bro. Yeah right in 20 or 30 years with weed and strains and All these things that we're going to lose over that 20 to 30 year period because none of the people that run these grows That are gonna be able to survive and compete Monetarily are gonna be the ones keeping these old strains with these qualities So you're correct, and I'm not trying to be you know remember that we're trying to make the theme It's like what can people do damn it rather than like give up hope and like Mother we're not trying to we're not trying to drink bleach tonight. So okay Yes, so the aspect is is that there's going to be a ton of people out there that smoke weed that Don't rely on weed entirely for their income. Yeah, there are lots of people out there Okay, that can save a few strains in their collection as a hobbyist Sure, right there are there are people that can buy one or two packs from their favorite readers See and that and that adds up like you know When when I'm talking about food in the 90s think about like all these heirloom vegetables that just popped out of nowhere They were maintained by like a dedicated group of traders and like and Enthusiasts without very much without very much money in it for a long time.  Yeah, they haven't let us do that yet with weed.  Yes That's right. They're making it harder. I'm not saying it's easy.    It's tough It's it's hard.  Yeah, but but there's an aspect where there's you know There's 215 people listening to us right now or whatever if each person Decided there's one or two strains.  Yeah, they grow and they love I'm not asking them to hold on to anything that they don't love. Yeah, but they don't want to lose it either They're in love with it, right?  I would mostly grow one or two or three things for the market But then I'd have a section of the greenhouse or whatever that was just like my heads Yeah, it's dash and I probably brought what did I bring like probably 20 or 30 different things each year? Yeah Let's say that's fair if not more.  So then so then you know, it's like trading amongst you and your friends and smoke some of this good weed Try this out. Try this weird thing out, right? Yeah, there's a space for hobby So if we want if we want like we can't trust corporations. We can't trust cookie We can't trust JBZ.    I'll get it healthy. I'll hold it You just give me all your valuable stuff. I'll hold on to it. Yes, right? And so and there's no and so for a collector like, you know, that works off the honor system.   So I wouldn't use your version exactly So TC to me TC is cool if you want to do it yourself Yeah, but if you want to involve some like big backed corporation, you know Or a company that doesn't have your best interests at heart with the way the legal scene is around marijuana right now Which is not very enforceable and everyone bends the rules every which way they want Yeah I wouldn't say like you would trust your TC collection unless it was like your oldest homie and you had a lot of love And you really trusted him Like if CS if CSI opened up a nursery and like had a you know Yeah, our radio, you know There's various people that are friends of ours that we trust.  Yeah Right and so for me, I don't trust TC I don't trust I don't trust the collection to to big entities right now They're not established enough. I don't like you know, I just don't trust them Yeah, doesn't mean I might not in the future like it might develop to the point where I decided to take a risk or something Like that, but there's an aspect where right now. It's just kind of wild wild west and like in the cannabis scene So I just think they're offering to do it because you have something of value I case in point and I'm not gonna name any names, but with the TC situation This wasn't my experience, but I was involved a little bit There are examples of people taking someone's Dutted plant and to clean them up Maristem wise Putting it off for six months with promises. Oh, yeah, it's going it's going good because you know, a lot of us don't know How long this takes it was a new thing when this was happening and then returning a Tiny tiny tiny little clone and telling them that it's tissue culture and it's still done it we've seen and this isn't even the same person we're talking about earlier if there are so many examples of new technologies coming to cannabis and finding ways to take advantage of Of people who have these collections and what not so be careful That person might have paid four thousand dollars to get that thing Maristem That person paid five thousand five thousand dollars to get it Maristem with no with no like refund or proof If it if I mean if it tested positive give me my five thousand back They may only be you know and refund that shit, but you know what I'm saying But that should be standard you shouldn't be able to charge for some process that fails. Yeah, right? That's not that's you know and so There's an aspect we're like not to get lost in the TC thing But but one of the aspects of these larger companies coming in is very soon the gelato and And purple wave and all this cookie and overbred shit. It's gonna still exist It's way too popular to like go away forever But it's going to become a segment of the market not just a market and so there's a huge interest in Getting back all these old things Yeah, you know and there's you know for all these clone sellers and stuff like that I mean that's one of the risks of selling clones is like it could be like you can have somebody's It's somebody that works at one of these places this gates gets given money and it's like and all of a sudden you're just buying it Yeah, you know so it's like I don't mind if shit gets out there I just mind if those people if it gets out there and then all of a sudden they try to claim it as theirs and Restrict others access to it.  There's nothing before 2018 that you can't patent it.   You can't sue me for having it DJ shorts but hole is like this type right now, but it's f'd up You know, I mean, it's like it is any other reason I said his name is because he has a very public Claim to those using blueberry and stuff and he does not like that Oh, he used to put it on his packs that you're not allowed to breed with it That you're not allowed to this with it that they retain control of the line or whatever the case may be And I understand that too But that's part of selling seeds is that you're putting it out there in the world and then anyone can do anything They want with it. That's the trade-off That and that's been happening since the beginning of time. Yeah Every single famous Dutch thing every single famous 90 strain was was bought seeds were bought and and people sold their own Versions of it really fast. Yeah Right, so it's been going on from the but what I'm scared of is all of a sudden someone telling me that like oh No, we we we own the chem D Yeah We own the 91 we own the we own this we don't you know, whatever You know, so it's like if you make something in the legal market if you have a legal nursery and you make your own breed And you and you do something like that to it. Maybe it starts to get different Yeah, but all the stuff that came out of the shadows all the stuff that came out of prohibition the whole genetic library of everything else It's it should be unnot owned by anybody. I agree and and you know and and that'll that that that'll really democratize it You know a case in point like I I do like having action with words and with the blue bonnet mail After I made the lines and it literally immediately after I gave it to radio Ridge to have an open source for any breeder Who wants to inject blueberry into their lines? You know what I mean, and I I try to stand behind that because I think it I really think if you're good at what you do You shouldn't tie yourself to one thing and you should be able to make new and unique and go new different directions And be inspired by stuff like that And if someone else makes something better than you you should be able to look at that Admire it want to use it and better it I mean, you know I'm a man is not at all But I'm a huge I'm a big fan of the Grateful Dead right and one of the reasons why they have so many shows recorded is You know and they played more shows than anybody and they and there's more live recordings of them than anybody They left tapers they had you mean they made soundboards, but they let tapers set up in the audience Yeah, basically they said after we play it. It's theirs. That's beautiful. Don't don't bootleg our albums But our show as soon as we're done playing it. We played it for you. It's yours and They were pretty rock. Yes super punk rock dude. They were I mean they they came from prankster You know from prankster ethics and stuff like warlocks. It was a great barrage band, too So, you know Yeah, I mean Pete someone just said I hear a lot of the og lines were bag seat all og is bag seat So it started it started with a bag seed more bag seeds were created It's it's it's bag seeds of bag seeds. Yeah, it's it's accidental pollination all the way up. Yeah You know so so that's what I think, you know There's and maybe that's what people can do people can fight to keep even if you're gonna crop one or two Things for your little market or whatever Save one or two other moms that you grow a plan or two of every now and again, and you hold on to something that you care about Yeah, make it be something that you enjoy smoking For you joy smoking it because that's what keeps you keeping it That's what keeps you keeping it, you know and like and then if and then if thousands of different people Hold on to one two or three or four things that they love a lot will have a lot more heirlooms that make it Yeah, because it'll be a lot more insulated from like, you know The the the two few collectors like me, you know who like there's fires. There's issues. There's accidents There's shit that can happen, you know, the more diffuse it is the better the better chance we have of stuff surviving absolutely Before we continue someone did ask me To talk about and give a kind of public service announcement during these times in cannabis And I think it's important as well. A lot of us have lost a lot of people to suicide and Unfortunately, it's not just cannabis. It's the whole economic society in America. There's not a lot of empathy right now and Realize it like a lot of you guys out there that are in the cannabis industry aren't the only ones suffering. There's a lot of people. I mean This is all everything is all smoke and mirrors when it comes to business Not everyone's happy 100% of the time the whole seed communities been hit the whole weed communities been hit And there's a lot of people you can talk to and if you can't find someone DM me I'm available 24-7 and I'll get back to you. If not, there are suicide hotlines. It's important No males should be ashamed from talking about depression or their feelings at all So please if you can't find someone to get help talk to one of us Yeah, I mean there's an aspect where it's like I live in obviously I live in Mendocino County, you know And I don't even want to talk about pound prices and and what's going on at home right now Because it's the way of life is all of a sudden there's an aspect of well, how does one survive? Yeah, I have a mortgage I have kids I have this I have that this has worked for me for a lot of us You know that are in our like, you know mid 30s to mid 40s or whatever. This has been working for us Basically our whole adult life Yeah, yeah, you know and now it's changing dramatically I don't do anything else good like really I like that's not even just a statement Like I this is what I have done most of my adult life and the stuff that I used to do What that's bypassed the technology by past a long time ago And I think a lot of people in our community that have stuck at this for a long time had share that and it's it's scary The the not knowing what the future holds is scary. So I mean There used to be this thing like with PTSD or whatever we're like getting busted was like an occupational hazard, right? Yeah, and it sucked when it happens And so we used to be we used to get scared about that to some degree and now It's like you're not scared about getting busted as much as you are and like just failing Yeah, right and so and then that and then that leads some people to like look around to like, you know Get sell out. Yeah, you know, I'll give you guys a story of a back home for a second, right? So this is this is what used to happen when we when the flood hit Okay, and the we used to call the flood is when like the flood of outdoor really hit the market Yeah, right and prices dropped and not not like crazy like today But but there'd be an aspect where all of a sudden like we would be hard to move Yeah, you know and and and the issue was is it wasn't like it was hard to move it was more like there was just enough of it that like some of it was moving and a lot of it was sitting until some of More of it moved, right? And people would come up and talk to me and literally like the brokers in November or December are Vampiric.  They got a bunch of fire weed and they want to make a dope deal Yeah, and a lot of times they didn't want to buy from anybody that was stable for a couple of months Yeah, because they wanted if they wanted they wanted to take advantage of the poor planners and the people in a tight spot Where they could get a more aggressive deal and they could make a bunch more margin. Yeah, right? I mean that was just that's just like standard that's standard business, you know And a lot of times people would you know back in the day, especially people would bury their stuff or not trim it till spring and You know if you had money you wouldn't sell it till February March April May. Yeah Because that's when the flood had passed a bit and the desperation was gone and then they started coming up and looking for just good packs Yeah And you know and so, you know, there's always been sort of like that The reason why I brought that up is that Right now that's kind of what's happening is people are looking at seed collections people are looking at clone collections People are looking around it and they're like who's desperate who's desperate. What's it cheapest? I can get this out of this who's failing who's in trouble who's stressed, right? Yeah, because you know But you're right people are saying it doesn't seem like a good way to form long-term relationships That's like you think of brokers and people like that want long-term relationships They want to win every trip to get what they want. Yeah, that's what they're really doing There's not a bunch of there's the amount of people that like want to form long-lasting Mutually beneficial stable relationships. That's not really weed You know brokers are like, you know, they're like they have some stable relationship with you And then they hear that like some dude is broke and it's gonna sell better weed for $400 less a pound and They're off that way. Yeah, because that's where that dude is you know and so You know and and you know and so there's an there's an aspect of that where you know People people make fun of like well, you know, California's all boof Yeah, and and there's an aspect of that where there is a lot of booth in California.  No, that's not true either. That was never true It's true in some cases, you know And everyone's trying to claim it right now, but it certainly wasn't true for the most part people were plenty content to grow Okay weed and move it. Yeah, right. So There's an aspect there where like You know, but you know, I don't know it I'm not even sure where like my train of thought was going on I'll give you something so we were talking about solutions and I know like I kind of took it off and be not so solution oriented just Problem were you but One solution and you talked about it earlier was getting a bunch of people like minded together and now with the syndicate what I originally What this was originally built for The big pie in the sky idea that I have for the syndicate overall first was to get everyone together that's interested in Weed history that's truly interested in it wants to learn get together We all make each other better But from there my ultimate goal is to have it be a sort of and I know people are gonna fuck some people flip a union For those who came before us that don't have retirements. None of us have retirements that are we growers like they're, you know, traditional Have fallbacks for that have retirement plans for these people We have to form it ourselves No one's gonna form it for us and in the only way we can do that is working together And it sucks because a lot of us won't work together But I think over time a lot of the old-school dudes the people that really care and people that used to butt heads Even being Fletcher used to butt heads. We don't we're we're cool because we all have that same kind of thought and goal So that that was the overall goal Solution whatever I saw as my I want to expound on that But I did gather my train of thought at like 10 seconds after you started talking So the point I was trying to make is that like for all the people that are complaining about all this, California Booth that hits their town The only reason why that's happening is because the broker that got it here and brought it to there Thinks that you don't have better options and he can force Booth on you for a good margin for himself That's why there's Booth everywhere. If you're angry at California Booth Don't blame California blame the dude in the dudes in your area that arranged for that to appear in your area Yeah, and there's tons of Pretty good weed in California, and there's some really exceptional weed and you could force your brokers to bring you that You know and then according to what like Matt's saying too is Matt and I battle all this all the time, but like I what Matt just said is basically like we need a really big tent We need whether it's a union or whatever else, you know People are gonna laugh at that for a second But really what we need is we need millions of people that get on board with the basic ideas that we think should cannabis should be and Then to push for those ideas and Then in some fashion eventually we'll probably get at least a niche of our ideas functioning the way that we want to Yeah, right, but if but we're really good at fighting it at one another Cannabis Used to be it's not so much anymore But cannabis used to be a great place where people with some mental illnesses that were untreated could make a decent living for themselves yes And so and so you know and then you could say you know and I mean I know in Mendo I know like single moms that like you know just like grab grab some courage and went for it in the hills Yeah, and they were able to spend a lot of time with their kids growing weed Right and making a living for themselves, and there's a bunch of people that would have a hard time working a normal job Yeah, right and so something we interact with these people and then they don't fucking act normal Yeah, you know and and then as time goes it gets tough for them, too They start to freak out and they start to get spastic and shit starts getting weird So, you know, but you know when it comes down to it, too Like people people with issues like they have a right to a living, too Yeah weed was a safe space for a lot of people despite the risks. Yeah, I was You know and it's changing now You know It's it's changing and so as a result of that like there's a bunch of stress out there. Yeah But we're really gonna have to like there I see a ton of fighting people if people notice like I really I don't fight on Instagram You know I try to be polite to people. I'm trying to build consensus.  That's their problem.  Yeah, but like some stranger on the internet. It's pissed off because I don't like somebody else or I don't like Somebody's behavior.   Yeah But the only way that's gonna happen is you have to grow good weed and you have to keep good weed in your room And you have to keep weed you love in your room The best weed comes out of weed you love Right and so like people were asking earlier like how many how many how many moms I haven't it varies a bunch But it's like my mom collection is really odd Yeah, I'm very when people ask me that I'm gonna be like why do you want to know my play cat?  Yeah, because I don't care about it You know, that's for other people to care about I like what I like. It's already Overwhelming enough just to try to hold on to what I like.  You don't like You know, it's tough.  Yep Do I hold anything that I'm not a fan of but as a backup for a friend? Yeah, there's a couple of things or there's some things that are untested Are there some things that like if I have a close enough friend and they love something a ton and they want help backing it up I understand that motivation.  It's a great idea It is advanced breeding so if you're new to making crosses if you're new to Identify males identifying females if you're not familiar with an intersex plant and even when you're using Sprays like the like my reversal spring for example, you could find a ride seats calm You can go and get that and when you spray it doesn't necessarily look like a male It looks like a female expressing his male So if you're not familiar with seeing that I recommend doing your research digging up you can always go to our patreon join the crew We're always talking about stuff like this We're gonna have a private conversation in a in a few days on reversals and reversal techniques for small groups So they can get really good questions in but I mean s ones are a great way to back up seeds But understand that just because you're reversing it or s wanting it or something it you're not gonna have an exact clone Representation of them all so do understand that but it's an excellent way to back up the pure version of those genetics People are asking a bunch of stuff that that that is That yes, all those things that you said are good We are gonna be having some like more more concentrated talks with people which is nice People are asking about super skunk stuff like that. I don't know I mean, I I'm not wanting to like shout from the rooftops, you know or anything like that There I do think there's hope that that some of these old things exist But I think they should be like grown out and tested and and sort it out on that level first I think you know a lot of times when people get like cuts or whatever and they're convinced that it's some 30 year old thing and they flex it You know grow it out. Yeah, do what's that's important It's important and not just to grow it out and it's cool Like if you grow it out if you're like, damn, this is dang that must be shit That must be it but that's not necessarily the case just because it's dang doesn't mean it's legitimately what you think it is So if you're gonna grow it out and you're gonna assess provenance and if it's real make sure you know About it have anything knowledge about it and don't just assume because it's dang that it's legit Yeah, and you know and so there's Someone asked what's the closest thing to super skunk and seed jeez-al Jees-al pure jeez-al or diesel. Yeah, do you diesel diesel? Jees-al diesel diesel and jeez-als. I've said a bunch of times before I kind of consider the diesel family to be like a modern skunk You know, it's not exactly super skunk jeez-al is much closer to modern super skunk to like an actual pure super skunk but in terms of like a very skunky Like and I don't mean like necessarily in terps But I'm just in terms of like the way it forms and the way it grows and a lot of the factors to that like I think sour's Sours and diesels have various ranges of that. Yeah, you know And so there's plenty luckily that there's a plethora.  Yeah, I'll tell you they all tie back to 1995 So it's really amazing that like out of nowhere like 36 different individual cuts that are all the real deal I've popped up in two years But yeah, you know, so I mean when people talk about super skunk, too There's plenty of super skunk in modern weed and like Matt said jeez-al is almost a pure super skunk well people are great example what what people are You know really saying is that like super skunk phenos that like have ranks skunk Turt like aromas That's the missing link, but there's plenty of like like physical expressions of super skunk Yeah, you know in the way the flower forms and the way leaves are in the way, you know Various aspects of the traits of it. It's it's in a lot of stuff. Yes, you know, so And you know, there's a thing two people are asking what's weak like I'm not I'm you know, I'm not trying to knock anybody stuff But I can say that like when I started collecting sour diesels to compare to my sour diesel cut that I had to figure out What name I should attach to the one that I've held for a long time Probably in the that was like what was that like five or six years ago, Matt? Yeah at this point There's probably like half a dozen or eight six or eight new names that I that were never in the forums Yeah, did you ever hear about Albany sour diesel? Did you ever hear about weasels sour diesel cut on the forums? Did you ever hear about like the you know, I mean so there and I'm not not knocking these things Yeah So I'm just I'm just saying that like There's new like nicknames added to sours probably half a dozen or more just within the last three or four years That ten years ago you never heard about Yeah Right and so what does that you know, are they the same as other things? Are they the Chaco or they the Amish or they the shrugger than this or that who knows? I think every time you see someone release a seed line that's hyped and named after a cut in the form like the sour diesel We saw several different breeders release their versions of sour diesel I think that's when you see a lot of old cuts pop up and so people's Poppings and selections of brand new lines that they think is legit enough to pass for the old I mean luckily for people most diesel cuts are pretty damn nice. Yes They smoke good. They get you nice and high suck it growing and then it'll be boost Because I've sucked it growing diesel before and it's been fun your boo Diesel's can be finicky and and they they can be punishing and they can not be that great, but that's I mean there's so there's So there's an aspect where there's I mean, maybe I exaggerated with 36 cuts, but there's probably at least 15 18 named cuts a lot of which claim to be close to original I love pot asked what names are legit. That's the thing names aren't necessarily legit It's the cuts are legit anybody can call anybody cut anybody's cut any name So just because so it calls something the Chaco cut does it necessarily mean that it's legit because they called it the Chaco It's kind of like how we called we called it the dog and until our buddy got online and You know and then it got named after his online handle. Yeah Because he was the person passing it out and you know who you know the Amish was passed out by was shroomy, right? Yeah, you know and the child and like so Pete things got named on the internet Chaco, I called the Chaco because he had some of my favorite pictures of it And there were some of the best pictures for showing people to describe which cut I had so it was called ECSD But I said it's the one that Chaco shows the Chaco cut and then just eventually that's how that name formed the Chaco cut Yeah, and you know and then there's you know, there's you know, East Coast sour diesel New York sour diesel, you know all these So there was like a first wave in the beginning. It was just called sour Yeah, it wasn't really told of forums and like the mid-2000s that names started getting applied to sour diesel Yeah, and then there was a batch of names and now there's a new batch of names What we're really what really is happening is that most people have not held their sour diesel cut consistently throughout the eras So you're trying to figure out what name is the one that ties back to what you want But it's really hard when you lose chain of command when you lose chain of who has what when? Yeah, Matt and I talk about provenance or whatever right, so here's the provenance of my sour cut I got it 22 years ago, and I never lost it Do I know what it is before I got it? No You know, do I know how what where it went and how it went between, you know The mid 90s and when I got it in 2000 now But I haven't lost it and Eventually if you don't lose things like you know that if you hold on to things for a long time Then it sort of becomes like that's part of the reason why I never tried to maybe use other sours. I Had sour diesel Wow, I get a different one. I had the one. I didn't know they were I didn't even know there was a bunch I got sour diesel. I was happy with it. It was great wheat. So why would I go trade someone for it? Yeah, you know And people are like what's the difference between the two NYCD and ECSD cuts? I think he probably referring to NYCD from so much. I don't think people know about the other one Yeah, someone's talking about the Millie. I don't know if mine's the Millie that dude that has the Millie He got he got his the same year I got mine in the same place I got mine, which was the Bay Area of, California But we've never exchanged cuts or grown side-by-side to test I couldn't tell you but some people would use that as Enough info to say yes in fact that is the same cut Yeah, I mean and you know and so you know he calls it the Millie because it's short for millennium because he got it at the turn of the millennium You know But with diesels I don't really think it's a it's a fair comparison unless you grow them in the same room at the same time same greenhouse same outdoor Treat it the same feed it the same and then you'll see differences if there are and if it's the same cut It'll be the same cut Yeah, but I can't I can't compare somebody's LED living soil grow and at different conditions to somebody else's And if they just come out too different And in my you know and sometimes with the same person they come out different crop to crop New York City diesel isn't Dutch boof It is weird and shitty in the sense that Soma took the diesel name and was one of the first people to offer Seeds and it was some Euro Fruity thing crossed to possibly a sour bag seed if you want to believe him It's great fruit But people have found some nice phenos on it. It's nothing like sour diesel. Yeah, the good ones aren't like sour diesel so Someone's asking about master kush my boy bidders got a killer version of master kush Which is the so Cal master kush crossed to the Hawks breath and he's just running through those. It's an old seed line But yeah, I'm stoked to see it back. We're stoked to see some so Cal master back in the form with I'm not gonna I can't really I'm not gonna engage a ton on like what all the different names are because one of the things that I found With sour names is like they get applied to a variety of different cuts at different times And it's it's really difficult to try to figure out sour diesel Yeah, you know So I don't know how I don't know how like Go back on that one or whatever and even the headband and a lot of these things that I've held for a long time There's still more mystery than I would like Sure I'm just willing to say that there's mystery to it rather than like craft some story of certainty when none exists Yeah, stories sound so much better when they're full of intrigue and mystery, but yeah, that's just how it goes You know and so I mean I've had people tell me like people someone just said the Albany cuts totally legit I know someone that's had it since 99 people have told me people have told me Some of my weed is spread out a little bit and some people have been trying it and liking it Some people have told me that they think that the cut that I have is the Albany for whatever that's worth But I mean I I haven't gotten it. I don't have any confirmation of it I You know, I think a lot of people are throwing a lot of different names at the wall and trying to figure out Which is cool because You know, at least there's a bunch of interest in it So our diesel is way better weed than a lot of the weed that's being traded right now a lot of the hype boy weed So it should have a moment of the sun Yeah, you know somebody said there's a master there's two things.  I remember that I had someone just said that's the one not so I had that cut for probably 10 years I lost it when I got in some troubles. I got it back but it was super dutted and barely drank and and you know, it's So we lost it again, but I hope that I have it there's a chance it still floats around Oregon somewhere I have some friends that gave it out and I'm hoping that like it'll pop up one day It's really flavorful some people didn't like it as much as far as brokers because it was a little darker and Wasn't as as poppy in the bag as certain other OGs But man had a great high and it tasted good But most people seem to have the SoCal master that some that's it's also really nice Yeah, it's very very nice. I like it a lot. I'm not trying to diss it at all It's just not the one that I wasn't familiar with and it seems very Bubba-based. It is very Bubba-based It is it is a dead ringer for Bubba. Yeah, it's it's it's Bubba with some I don't think it has coffee turps like Bubba It can depending on how you grow it really. Yeah, it's a lot of soapy a lot of earthy But it can hit coffee it spins on a grout how old it is The Irene OG cut is around various collectors and people have it. I read it too It exists To number two and number two. Yes. That's the one that still exists That's the one that still exists and you know the Bubba the original Bubba is lost as far as I know What survives is the Bubba kush? Yes, which was which is a which we believe is a hybrid of the original Bubba and the first kush cut that came to LA Yeah Seed found in that I don't think the original no one no one's told me that the original Bubba even exist It was it was it was a funny looking thing Yeah Which is a shame, you know Because you know like I said Preservation is hard and a lot of people get rid of a lot of things thinking it's going to be easier to get it back And then they realize they can't find it I'm someone's asking it's if hl the hop slate and viroid is something that's always been in cannabis and the answer to that I will cover that on on September 8th with to be To me is the the company that we're gonna be bringing on but the short answer is no it We know exactly when it came and he hit cannabis and who did it Yeah, somebody just asked if I met the guy that gave me the Mendo perps with what I what I grow them like I did back then enthusiastically and would you trust him? Well, so that's interesting Back then I grew water culture total hydro So it's very unlikely that I would grow them back then like like I like now I have a little bit different methods now but Sure, I would grow them just as enthusiastically There's no doubt that there's a lot more lying going on about ancient strains now Then there ever was in 1998 in 1998 nobody gave a shit There wasn't a famine unity to impress on any level, you know, and so there was less lying And even then he didn't tell me very much at all about it The only reason why I have a tendency to believe That it could be as old as he thinks it is or he thought it was is because it's low THC It's got a crazy wide amount of diversity in its genes You know, and it doesn't seem like it's related to anything else we know. Yeah You know, so sometimes the plant backs up the story better than the But there's a there's an unbelievable amount of Bullshit right now with ancient seeds and ancient cuts and random shit, and it's There's a renewed interest in old things, which is wonderful But that's led to an enormous amount of scamming An enormous amount and I just don't think that in 98 99 2000 2001 there was no extra money and nobody cared So I don't think there was nearly as a reason to lie It just bothers me too because and I'm not gonna say any names, but people are selling People in it in maybe it's a big word, but dreams.  That's how they sell That's how they work. Yeah He asked because we're talking about swapping genetics and trusting people trusting people these days is hard You know Yeah, and and there's not it's not as easy. I mean a lot of times You know you have to grow things out and then share that share picks and share this and that and try to make your best judgments Everybody CSI grows out old seeds from people all the time Yeah, and just kind of let's it lets it let's the plants show him what it shows them Yes, right and then and then he starts to believe or disbelieve Someone's asking about Tennessee stud. That's a it was the G 13 and all two from Neville cross to blue bonnet and Pips we did the selection for the keeper that we used in the G 13 and all two seats We have to say names eventually I've said names for so many years and Frankly hasn't made much of a difference if you if you're interested in names if you're interested in wanting to get it right if you're interested in all this stuff The discords that's just where it is like if you if you're really interested in that kind that detailed kind of info Join the patreon discord. You'll get plenty of info and then some and then part of the reason why Part of the reason why we have that kind of approach and we're hesitant to mention some of the names on the chats is Because like we'll be talking about some wider subject and Matt or I or somebody will make a Offhand comment about someone specific and then 10 people will send like a 15 second audio message of just that to that person And then they're all butthurt or there whatever it's taken out of context or they're doxing me or whatever Yeah, yeah, and so and and so there's an aspect of there's an aspect of you know of Wanted to keep it a little bit more like high brow and wanted to keep it focused on the subject and not just And and you know not using somebody as an example and then they feel unfairly singled out Yeah, in certain rare cases when I think it's like crazy enough behavior I mean I'll just say it but the point to these talks is to like educate people and stuff like that Not so much to just sit there and like vent a bunch of grievances Yeah, that's easy to do to sit there and vent a bunch of grievances and it's really easy to sit there and talk about Things that will make you money, but it's not super easy to talk about history So somebody just somebody just asked if G 13 and nl2 is still available and no no no, I gave the rest of those seeds to a seed bank and They passed them out and didn't put They mixed up packages named them a bcd. So they just got spread throughout I don't know which is which so some people have them and may not even know it It is labeled by a letter And usually what happens is when people grow those out and I can see them I can usually tell what it is because they were also different, you know, and there's an aspect to one of the one of the reasons why One of the reasons why I ask people to save stuff, right? Is and hold on to these things is because every five or ten years cannabis really does really Yeah, and things that you think are common and they are going to be around for a long time in many cases they don't Yeah, and the only way you can be absolutely sure to preserve it if you were your friends You know if you were your friends help make sure you you save it, you know And real quick I Was talking with CSI a lot of people been asking if we were going to continue the norm likes project With the nl1 nl2 the nl2 by 5 that was sent by Seattle Greg and there's a few others We had been debating it because there was a lot of Politics when we were Talking about selling the seeds when we're selling the seeds a lot of backs back talk and weird stuff going on behind the Scenes so we really had a serious sit and think is it even worth it, but we're gonna do it We're gonna go ahead and do it So that's the announcement right now if anybody is interested we are gonna do that But it again just like the five just like the Hawaiian lights We're gonna do it proper. We're gonna take our time with it Anything that's worthwhile is gonna take time and I should say on that level that one of the things I really like about the way CSI does and and you know this project that him and Matt have been doing is You know they grow out a few hundred plants. Yeah, and they show you You know and I'll I I'll do them a little bit later this fall But I have a couple selections From CSI that he out of out of his and Matt's project together that he gave me of a couple of his favorites That he wants me to see what I think And the number eight is the one that he's currently working on reversing which is the super super stinky skunky one Yeah, I think there was a there was a I think I got that that one And I got one other one that I think he would thought was very bubble gummy and the seven Yeah, yeah, so I got I got two different ones that he really liked a bunch and wanted some close friends I like you it gave you the two best ones. Geez. I mean, you know So you have to do to get them.  We'll have to see, you know, but they're there and You know, yeah, people are asking. I don't know what I'm gonna have seeds man You know when I have them at some point, you know, there are some there are some I did give CSI a few things of mine a few a few select cuts that he's obviously like released a few things I think he has a few more things in the pipeline.  So he has moods And I think the northern lights took a while to get pushed like that Yeah, because he doesn't like stuff typically associated with Dutch stuff stuff that's gonna smell like old Dutch stuff and then Yes, he's got his prejudices, but he also lets the plants talk to him and he's willing to be surprised And I think now that he's used the LA in a couple of things and he's gotten some really positive responses from lots of people It's made him more interested in seeing what else it can do Yeah so You know, I don't think Shanti Baba would be one of the most unusual people to collab with he's not much of a collaborist with anyone like that I don't know if he's ever done a collab with an anyone in America. So that would be pretty far-fetched Yeah That would be pretty far-fetched You know so Yeah, but they I mean so, you know as always we try to keep it like light and we try to go in different directions You know on that aspect, but You know, we'll see there's a lot of There's a lot of interest in old seeds right now and old lines And if a bunch of people could get 90s sensei work or 90s serious work or this or that they would Jump all over it.     Yeah, I mean he's he's got you know the cool thing about him Is he breeds what he loves and he's got some pretty cool lines and he also got a bit lucky Yeah, you know a couple of times I mean he's gotten unlucky to you know He tried to he tried to reverse his sour cut and I think he got like 20 seeds. Yeah. Yeah, so that's exciting, you know and You know silver pearl to me.  I know you don't know that smell, but I've had a bunch of kids So it smells like that it has this weird it has one of those smells that like smells gross But because it's weed it's good That's so weird like to me I smell like I hit a bubble gummy squeed and the rest is like dang Indescribable thing like my nose smells just indescribable thing with like sweet pleasant Yeah, it's it's pretty leafy and it's and it's pretty very it's pretty frosty and it doesn't yield that very big buds It's insanely resinist for its era. It's insanely resinist for it's era. That's for sure. And it's like it's What is the exact cross again? It's like it's like is it early girl by nl5 by skunk one. Yes Yeah, early pearl nl5 skunk one. Yeah, that's what it is And then they cross he crossed that just haze see and made silver haze But yeah, especially that death coast There's some things that pipped in he wasn't like a fanboy on IG and he didn't have this massive following But if people would have like bought him out the way they bought some more well-known breeders out They probably would have been happier all that money you spent on other people Yeah, hope you enjoy your animal mints. Did it remind you of the smell of shoreline? No, no It didn't to me Shoreline like I said the indoor was a very hot garbage the outdoor was very hot garbage and and legit urine Somebody just asked what's early pearl my understanding of early pearl is early pearl is a worked early girl, which is something that Which is polyanna cross with early pearl I believe is polyanna, which is a Mexican cross with early girl Correct, and it that's what it is and it's worked stuff from Rob Clark Yes, the polyanna came from Rob Clark the early one the early girl, huh? Polyanna came from Rob Clark. There's the speculation that The Afghani and I think it's the Afghani or the Mexican and polyanna might be Mexican it's gunk one. That's the one thing we are trying to figure out. Yeah I mean, there's there's some I mean, I'm sure that Sam and him know You know, but yeah, he he was responsible for a number of early strains that went over to Amsterdam I believe he brought over Calia Calio, maybe California orange And you know, but there was a there was a handful of there was a handful of people That were bringing things to Holland and he was certainly one of them. Yeah, so But yeah, and there's no doubt that Rob and Sam in the in that we're working with Mexicans and Colombians Trying to get Colombians to finish in California. Yeah And so they were working with various and that makes sense because that's like the two most imported things in that area at the time Yeah Someone's asking about Dolores, so I'm gonna go grab a picture of Dolores. I don't know anything Oh, I don't have a close. It's in the other room It's in the other room and there's a guy there's actually a guy in here that I chat with Buckshot Hill whose family Was rocking a really nice early pearl cut in the in the early 90s It has been hunting Through any kind of seed he can to try to see if he can find something that he remembers from that era We had a nice early early pearl cut in San Diego too in the hog room. Yeah, so So, yeah, you know, some of that some of that early work some of that, you know, it was really nice And I wish it was still around for I mean, there was an interesting thing. I was talking to this gentleman from Australia Okay, who worked with Neville? Some of the last years of Neville's life. Yeah, and he said one of Neville's great regrets Is that he couldn't take all the stuff he had in the 80s and 90s and working now. Yeah With like, you know, 30 more years experience and a better sense of things and a better sense of the importance of things in certain aspects And he did a really good job back then Yeah, but I think a lot of breeders have that regret where it's like boy, do I wish I had everything I had in the 90s and early 2000s now Yeah, you know, I have a lot more knowledge now Smoke a lot more weed seen a lot more things talked a lot more so you know and And yeah, so That's that's early girl, and you know, I wish that we could get stuff from Sensi that was real But I think those times passed sometime by the early to mid 2000s. Yeah, I agree People asked how did they go downhill so fast? So what happened to Sensi is that? They I think they were legit all throughout the 90s even after Neville left They still had most of their original moms and dads and they released some things that were like unreleased Neville work in the later 90s Anyway, and then the laws changed they got busted. I think they lost some things And then they outsourced to Spain That was the big death now So at that point who I actually believe that there could be one or two things amongst, you know The their collection that might still exist Super sober haze. Yeah, that's everywhere. That's one of the ones that did get everywhere in state But you know, but which ones are they and which ones are legit and which ones from who knows? I think they've been untrustworthy for at least 15 15 plus years. Yeah sadly Unfortunately, yeah, but they had a good 10-year run. Yeah, you know from the early 90s to the early 2000s They had a lot of legitimate stuff Yeah, so I would I would be very suspect of anything from sensei today and The shame is that Ben Matt and I have talked a bunch about having Ben and Alan on Because they were there and they know an enormous amount about the early history of Dutch cannabis But they are Very Dutch businessmen and we've been told that they're terrible interviews. Yeah, and they still claim to this day They have all the original parents and sensei is no different now than it was in the 90s And all that type of stuff. So That's hard. They promote sensei Yeah, you know, they're not really interested in in history or being accurate or telling you what they lost or what they have Or what they like so they have it in there.  We've done a whole episode or two on Canadian seat banks. We'll probably do some more It just involves getting more of the Canadian people involved because Me and not so I have no place telling the history of Canada's seat banks because I'm not yeah, we do have we have a we have a good friend We chat with all the time that's from up there that has a lot of connections and a lot of knowledge You know Matt talked to To a couple of great camera. Yeah, yeah, right back to red and chimera, you know There's some other friends of theirs that might come on at some point But yeah, it's not really our scene. Yeah, and and Shawnee's gonna be probably Interview we had an interview with a dude named Pete from up there that was also part of their scene But sadly, we don't have the audio anymore. Someone else has it and we can't get it back So we're probably gonna do another interview again and just try to hit it from scratch Shawnee's gonna help a lot with that because Shawnee's our Canadian connect Someone just asked what about the dudes that are revamping the SSSC Well, we had a big interview with Carell So the guy that used to own the company is still live and still a part of it And I believe you know, he's in his 70s now probably so it's I would imagine his son and some other people are doing a ton You know and it doesn't seem it certainly doesn't seem like they have a ton of their original stuff So they're trying to revamp things, but it does seem like they have a few at least one But possibly a few very old cuttings Yeah, that they're using sort of as the baseline to get restarted again from their work in the 80s Yeah, you know, that was a great interview to I remember yeah after that was done We were just so like because it was special like nobody had really done a great interview with SSSC in many years many many years So well if you haven't heard that stuff, go check it out The other thing that I liked a bunch too was that obviously they talked about how they didn't have any um He was very upfront about quite there was he was very upfront about most of it There was a few things where you know time or whatever you didn't want to speak to it You know, but he did give some really cool tidbits that we didn't know before and he added depth and he was certainly there So all that stuff I think I think that interview probably had the most bombshells in it that we've done of things We didn't know that were unknown to most of the public. So I think it's really cool Yeah, so he's so he's part he's part of the of the revamp They're certainly not gonna be able to like just release their old catalog like it was in the 80s But they do have some old things and they're mixing them with other stuff and we know when I interviewed him He seemed like an older version of us Yeah, he seemed like a cool cat, you know, so yeah, he was cool. I'm into it I'm into him. He was a nice man All right.  We're getting right there You know, yeah, we are we are getting right there, I guess. I don't know what else I wanted to cover Let me see if there was anything We can save We can save, you know Some of that, you know for a later date or whatever I suppose Now we have some notes written down and things and there's you know Like as always there's a bunch of stuff that questions and things that I see I try to pick out some out of the comments if we didn't answer them It's not because it wasn't a good one It just didn't go with the flow of what we were chatting about, you know So don't so you can always ask us on the discord or you can always DM, you know, or anything like that and so You know keeper topics keeper topics are hard because it's personal preference What I what I consider a keeper you might not consider a keeper We might have different criteria The big the biggest criteria that I would say for a keeper for you is do you enjoy the the flavor of the high and the way it burns?  Then it could be a keeper, you know If I don't like the flavor of something even if I like the high It's not very likely that I'll keep smoking it for myself But some people may prefer the high over the flavor So that's why it's very I mean Obviously it's it's the easier to keep I keep her becomes easier when when she checks all the boxes Yeah, you know, I mean grandpa used to say there's nothing wrong with rich and beautiful, you know But you know, so obviously if you have phenomenal high and incredible flavor That's great. But you know, there's plants I keep that don't have a very potent high But have other aspects that I like quite a bit And there's there's the reverse too.  I couldn't find a good one that had any flavor So, you know, all right So if you enjoyed the talks tonight, definitely check out our breeder syndicate patreon You can find it by going to Google and typing in breeder syndicate patreon All of our podcasts are available in audio form and video form on YouTube as well as all the podcast software We've been getting them out usually a few hours right after this is done So this one will probably be up by like tonight if you want to hear it in the audio form Check out riotseeds.com. It's not just my stuff there. You can buy my reversal spray there and we've got Santa Cruz goat farm my buddy Pac-Man check out his train wreck feminized hybrids Let me ask let me just throw one thing in here because somebody threw something out there Why is my page private? I took my page private after 2 15 ended And you know just to prevent certain trolls and certain people that we have issues with from like spamming and causing issues Over and over and occasionally I delete people or occasionally. I like don't I let it back up And I don't accept people that fast so anyone that's listening if you want to be accepted just send me a message And I'll see you and don't have no followers and no pose Yeah, if you have zero posts and very few followers and no picture or something like that I might get worried that you're one of the scammers trying to mess with us and just delete you But if you sent me a thing saying dude, I watch it and you said to that me You know like reach out. I'll add Yes, so that's why I'm private All right to curate so everyone as always we appreciate your Friday night keep sending us questions because we always love to hear what you want to talk about and I've been a little bit behind on it But look out because I will be doing a series of like shorts and not so story time To add in our chats on YouTube and so there's gonna be some more content like that coming This weekend in the upcoming week, so we'll keep an eye out for that heck yeah, I'm stoked for that too and Yeah, like I said breeder syndicate patreon come join our discord like if you enjoy hearing the inside details on on All kinds of topics that we don't discuss publicly join the pre pre just to get patron your likely to year at all So thank you everyone for showing up. We love you. We want to build this community as best we can and if you Want to help build it with us? Join the patreon. All right. Have everybody have a good night. That's a love everyone


At the end of 2011, I was tracking 351 virtual worlds and that's for kids as well as adults. So at the end of first quarter this year, we were up at least according to my numbers as many as 440 virtual worlds and MMOs, massively multiplayer online gaming experiences. And that number continues to climb. Some industry experts in the virtual world space think that the number could reach as high as 800 within about a year and a half. And not all of them are for children. The last time I took account of all that I had, it was somewhere around 120, 130 of these worlds were targeting kids as young as 4 or 5. Some names that many of us would be familiar with like Club Penguin or Webkins. But there are a number of newer players as well. Minecraft is growing like crazy with kids globally. PopTropica by Pearson is a really popular one or Family Education Network. It's a division of Pearson. Wizard101 is a very popular destination and the interesting thing about that world is the amount of co-play opportunities between child and parent. And I think that might be part of the reason why their numbers are so high. It also includes adults in their world. Fantage, Moshi Monsters is very popular in Europe and has been taking off over the last year and a half here in the U.S. as well. What the folks at King's Isle Entertainment claim about their virtual world, Wizard101, is that some parents or grandparents are interested in connecting with their children and they actually keep in touch through the game. The virtual world experience might be at home and the classroom time, you could spend time talking about what happened in world. How did you interact with each other in world? Some worlds are better than others I think for facilitating learning opportunities. Panwapa I think initially has some neat opportunities but ongoing in a longer term basis. It doesn't carry quite as well. Part of the success of a good virtual world is having a reason to come back. And I think the initial experience in Panwapa is great but the reason to come back isn't as strong as it could be. When kids get very involved in virtual worlds there's an awful lot of reading and a lot of writing that goes on through chat. But at the same time I know as we keep talking about what does it mean to update COPA and how does that relate to kids interacting online today and their privacy rights. And there's an awful lot of time spent about how kids communicate in world through virtual worlds. And one of the things I've noticed is that as Skype becomes more and more popular with families, kids can use it as well behind a virtual world to communicate with their friends instead of through the in world system that many virtual worlds build in as part of their product. Technology and communicating through technology is changing so quickly that I think it's rewriting a lot of the rules where legislation can't keep up. There was a great game theorist named Eric Zimmerman who said well should we also bookify learning? One might argue all games can teach something. But though there are many games that are just very bad examples of how to learn and not all games are created equal when it comes to learning content and learning opportunities for children. And that's where I think the really challenging part is about games and learning that there may be many great game developers but very few of them understand child development or how children learn. And I think that's why this is not as successful a space as it could be. Learning should be intrinsically motivating to begin with and often is for many young children. And now if we're adding a point structure and badges and so forth we're changing the motivation and making learning an extrinsic interest in an effort to gain points and status within a game. And that's where I have some challenges with it. Are games wrong in the classroom? No. I mean I think there are some really great games out there to use in a classroom. But it takes a smart developer and a really sharp teacher to figure out how best to use it in a classroom experience.