We're very happy to have Robert Thibault with us on the channel for his fifth year in a row here speaking at the KS Communication Congress Today's lecture Robert Thibault, you probably know him as a lawyer involved in the Snowden case His lecture today is called the continued erosion of international law and human rights under global pandemic and Yeah Let's hear it and we'll be here later for Q&A Good evening, I'd like to thank the computer KS Congress again for having me speak at the convention this year Even though due to the global pandemic It's by remote But as you may be aware I'm the lawyer for the Snowden refugees and also I'm introducing another one of my clients Abraham Hussein who is a refugee and journalist from Somalia and just to Inform anyone who's who's unaware at this stage the Snowden refugees were a group of refugees from South and Southeast Asia who provided shelter food and Compassionate humanity to Edward Snowden when he was in Hong Kong in 2013 when Mr. Snowden made the disclosures on the NSA's electronic mass surveillance program And also to provide an update on my role as a lawyer for the Snowden refugees I continue to act for them as a barrister in their Hong Kong cases and Within Canada I was granted special special authorization to act for the Snowden refugees who still have refugee claims with the Canadian government and Just briefly I have a slide up with the Snowden refugees sitting together in Hong Kong On the left side is Vanessa. She's from the Philippines her daughter's below her That's Kiana born in Hong Kong stateless and is still stateless today Beside Vanessa is a jeep the former soldier from Sri Lanka And beside him is the family of four Nadeeka Sapoon both from Sri Lanka and their two children Sutton D and Dina also born in Hong Kong stateless Of the seven Snowden refugees two of them actually succeeded in their cases in 2019 and they and this is a photo. There's a photo I have up of myself meeting with Vanessa and Kiana at Pearson International Airport in Toronto on March 24th 2019 Year ago I talked about the Decline in human rights around the globe Nothing has changed since a year ago and with the COVID-19 global pandemic things have just gotten a lot worse Governments have been empowered and boldened to Continue to attack Those who dissent who are critical of government around the world and What has made matters worse are the people's inability to go out and exercise their rights of freedom of expression association and assembly and protests because of COVID And for public public safety reasons and the government has used that to their advantage to Abuse civilians in society The media as well has been consumed in my view by the global pandemic as well as other significant global New stories such as the US elections and Donald Trump What this has done is it's taken The media away journalists away from other important human rights stories around the world so so those who Whose cases or their circumstances are not high profile a lot of these stories are not being reported anymore They're not being investigated anymore, which is adding to governments Being aware that they can continue to commit human rights violations around the world with impunity Now I have a client from origin from Somalia. He's a journalist and I'm introducing him to the public in this presentation because he fled persecution as a general journalist in Somalia and he found himself in Hong Kong for a period of time in an untenable situation and Had later found his way to the European Union to seek refugee status there and I'd like to go into that and basically Mr. Ibrahim Had covered new stories in Mogadishu and in an across Somalia and he was Targeted by both the government and al-Shabaab It was a situation that Jiki has and there's two quotes here, which I'll read out Which really encapsulate the circumstances on the ground Ibrahim has stated in the morning we hugged our family like we might never see them again because every day in Mogadishu Journalists may be killed in the crossfire or murdered by al-Shabaab And he also stated for a big story We would bring two or three cameramen to record the scene together in case one was wounded or shot As as a lawyer for for Ibrahim I've actually seen footage that they've recorded of you know people on the front lines They were with being shot dead and This is a horrific situation for any journalist to be in and to report in The situation for Ibrahim came to a crossroads in 2009 when he was kidnapped by al-Shabaab He'd been targeted by the government as well the police and also officers of the Ministry of Information and Culture It was al-Shabaab who grabbed him tortured him threatened him didn't kill him with a knife Gun to his head and demanded a ransom of 18,000 US which fortunately his family was able to Secure and after six days as a hostage. He was released Now Ibrahim had worked for University television in Somalia during two periods and He had fled Somalia for a period of time to try to find refuge in another part of Africa which didn't work And then tried again or he found himself in South Sudan and which was there's no durable solution there for him So in September 2013, he fled to Hong Kong And he sought asylum there. His thinking was that Hong Kong had a reputation of civility and rule of law but upon his arrival he You know, he realized that he'd been seriously mistaken Immediately he was arrested and detained at the Kalsupik Bay Immigration Center for short. We call that CIC and It's basically Hong Kong's version of a Gulag and There's a an award-winning human rights story by Olivia Chang from Hong Kong called the invisible wall I've provided the link on the slides. So you'd be able to to read an English version of that that story Now after being locked up for three months. He was released unrecognizance, which is It's provided with a paper that typically foreign criminals are provided with and on the outside. He faced destitution and racial discrimination and he was constantly racially profiled by the police stopped all the time threatened and Hong Kong society itself Just basically Ignored him. It's like it's as if he didn't exist he had no food or money for the five months after he had been released from detention and International Social Services Swiss organization with a branch in Hong Kong provides humanitarian assistance As a contractor for the Hong Kong Social Welfare Department, but still for five months. He was destitute. No food and no money and In 2013 my slide. There's an error. It says 2014 but in late 2013 Abraham showed up at my office with another one of his colleagues who had worked for him in Somalia and They had they were wearing bedroom slippers and use clothing and they they were starving and I immediately took up their cases with the UNHCR in Hong Kong and Subsequent to that That meeting in my office my wife took both of them down to Out of her own pocket to purchase shoes for them running shoes and also to buy them some food Now cheeky is what I would describe as a victim of constructive refaliment And I'm going to go into the lawn that in a few minutes But basically the Hong Kong government has a legal and policy framework That's designed to break down the mental health and physical health of asylum seekers basically through social isolation isolation and deprivation of sufficient humanitarian assistance so that they don't starve and cheeky described the situation a Few days ago looking back after the asylum-seeking community protested and occupied social welfare and international social services offices in 2014 Protesting not having enough food or rent money to survive. It felt like my mind was breaking. I felt I would die in Hong Kong Abraham's mental and physical health declined in Hong Kong to the point where it was a choice between not surviving in Hong Kong or You know trying to get to another country the South China Morning Post reported his situation as a journalist and Reporter stated An experience of the worst in humanity was not what Abraham Muhammad Hussein expected when he touched down in Hong Kong eight months ago Fresh from persecution in Africa now I mentioned constructive refaliment and this is a Framework and a strategy that's implemented by the Hong Kong government and Professors at Chinese University Have described it as follows given that a necessary consequence of the government's policies as social exclusion and destitution There are major concerns particularly for the mental health of refugees This is especially the case because refugees stranded in the territory faced in definite periods while claims are processed All the while plagued by uncertainty such such concerns not only raised the issues of Compatibility with the ICSCR and ICCPR but also placed the individual concerned at risk of returning to the source of danger That's offending the doctrine of constructive refaliment So Hong Kong's prohibited from returning anybody who's seeking asylum in Hong Kong Until after the cases are screened and rejected. Okay, but the Hong Kong government In parallel with you know with the that policy that they have to follow the law They have to follow the screen refugees or asylum seekers is they make their lives so miserable so difficult That these asylum seekers mental health deteriorates the point where they give up and they they would rather return home to die there Ibrahim left Hong Kong but under international law and Hong Kong's policies they sent him back to Somalia. He was quickly targeted again and Over a number of years he sought internal flight relocation alternatives within Somalia It didn't work and then he finally left Somalia and found his way to the European Union ending up in Greece the first camp he was put in is the Maria Mariah refugee camp which Ibrahim describes as a place of violence. There is violence on a daily basis. There was a lack of resources food the conditions were inhuman and degrading and Ibrahim it's himself and the people in his makeshift structure where they stayed were attacked on seven occasions during that time and The other thing that Ibrahim has stated is that The the police just stood by and watched they allowed that to happen. They acquiesced to the violence against other refugees and The plus side of Ibrahim making it to the European Union was there is a screening process that Proceeded quickly compared to Hong Kong and the second plus is that The screening system in the European Union countries Actually grants refugees refugees that status If they can make their case that they have a well-founded fear of persecution in Hong Kong the acceptance rate was zero and Hong Kong Not being a signatory to the UN convention relating to the status of refugees You know even if you succeeded you could not obtain refugee status in Hong Kong and you cannot resettle there and this is a picture of Ibrahim at the Mariah refugee camp There was a arson and a large fire at the camp which left him five days on the streets Outside the camp and then he would be sent to the Lesbos refugee camp thereafter Now with his acceptance as a refugee in June 2020 He was still stuck in the camp and here's another photo of Ibrahim when he went to the Lesbos camp there are no toilets no showers lack of resources and and in late 2020 the Greek government moved allowed Ibrahim to leave the camps and he's now living in a Greek community Supported only for a limited period out of a period of time by the government in January 2021 There's mistake on my slide. I have 2020 should be 2021 He'll have to fend for himself and I I've brought up Introduced Ibrahim here to everybody today Because he he's been in both Hong Kong and he's found his way to the European Union There are serious problems on both sides of the globe But he is grateful that The proper screening is apparently happening in the European Union and he's now safe In my view, he's an extraordinary person Extraordinary journalist and there are very few journalists like this on the planet with his commitment and willingness to have taken the risks Risking his life to report due reporting in Somalia Ibrahim would like to continue working as a journalist Again, he's just landing on his feet in in Greece right now and waiting for his formal documents All those formal documents to be issued, but he's looking to continue to work as a journalist now I'm going to go I'm going back to Hong Kong and And I'm going to be returning to the snow and refugees But I'd like to provide a quick update on what's happening in Hong Kong and the slide I have up here now Basically shows from 2014 to 2019 The rapid decline in human rights in Hong Kong and In particular Rendition enforced Disappearances ill treatment torture and even attempted extra judicial killings and from 2004 to 2019 You know Hong Kong has become Authoritarian in and to review what happened last year Carrie Lam the chief executive of Hong Kong had wanted to bring in an act into a law an extradition bill which would allow rendition of Individuals from Hong Kong into mainland China There would have been a formal legal mechanism to do that Hong Kong people and lawyers in Hong Kong are very well aware that hot that mainland China Judiciary is not independent. It's like any other government department of the executive It's policy and politically motivated in terms of how judges in mainland China Try criminal cases do process rights Are limited in in China in the Chinese criminal justice system and at times do not exist And I'm going to mention the case of Michael Spavor and Michael Kovrig two Canadians who were detained into December 2018 Innocent Canadians have done nothing wrong arbitrarily arrested detained and this year earlier this year charged with crimes in mainland China and the mainland Chinese government has Effectively admitted that they've They're holding the two Canadians hostage as a bargaining chip to Pressure the Canadian government to to bring an end to the extradition proceedings against the Meng Wanzhou of the Huawei Chinese telecom group Out of significance so I'm mentioning this because the the two Michaels cases in in China highlight You know the deficiencies the clear deficiencies and shortcomings of the criminal justice system in China and Hong Kong people You know we're not prepared to accept that they would face Justice or accused of a crime and have to go through a criminal justice system in China mainland China So protests broke out people in the millions Wended the streets from June 19 2019 onward and It was in September 2019 that Carrie Lam the chief executive of Hong Kong announced that the extradition bill would be withdrawn So that was a great success now with COVID-19 human rights violations in Hong Kong have just continued on and they've become worse and the Hong Kong government recognizing that Millions of people would not be going out in the streets to protest Under COVID-19 because nobody you know everybody understood they is a public serious public health risk and people don't want to get sick So there were limited protests, but Hong Kong and Beijing calculated that You wouldn't have the millions of people on the streets and they introduced a bill The Beijing actually did this through their own legislature Enacting a constitutional provision under the new net under article 23 of the Hong Kong basic law, which is Hong Kong's constitution Basically bringing in new crimes against the state and I've put in the slide those crimes a secession subversion terrorism collusion with foreign forces That legislation is a constitutional provision. It's ambiguous. It's poorly written and it can be interpreted in a way because of its ambiguity Interpreted and used in an arbitrary way and used to violate the the rights of any any civilian in Hong Kong I'm going to go into the scope of this law If one is arrested if a person's arrested under the new national security law There's no presumption of bail anymore. The defendant actually has the burden of proof on them To seek bail Indefinite detention if bailes Not granted that person could be sitting in a remand in a jail for months or years before trial The trials are going to be held behind closed doors The judges are actually selected by the executive branch of government They select judges from the judiciary, but it's not the chief justice of the of the Hong Kong court court final appeal That choose selects the judges to be on that list that the government chooses In this law Anyone is accused of a national security fence under Hong Kong's basic law Can be renditioned to mainland China to face justice there? so what The Hong Kong authorities were not able to achieve in 2019 they've now Beijing has now Achieved so that anybody in Hong Kong who is accused of committing a national security crime Can be brought into mainland China and face justice there I'm extraterritorial criminality Anybody who writes something says something does something that is critical of the Hong Kong government If the Hong Kong authorities feel that this is an act of secession or subversion They can seek the extradition of that person. Let's say in Canada or in Germany or another country So this new national security law has a global reach okay consequence of this is countries in Europe including Germany The United States Canada New Zealand the UK Australia have all either suspended or terminated the extradition agreements Treaties that they have with Hong Kong the reason being is The new national security law is a de facto backdoor To for Beijing to extradite people from around the world very few countries have extradition treaties with mainland China because of the shortcomings in its criminal justice system and There I've put up a slide just listening a few countries that I've suspended treaties and Now within the Hong Kong legal Government itself three branches of government the executive branch legislative and judiciary It's quite clear that Beijing now has firm control over the executive branch of government carry them You know loyal to Beijing You know following through on directions from Beijing also in 2020 we saw officers from mainland China Now working in Hong Kong side-by-side with Hong Kong civil servants and and basically advising and directing the legislature a number of pro-democracy legislators were removed actually by Beijing and new legislation was Imposed by Beijing that anyone who? Is viewed as a risk to national security okay without trial Can be removed from the legislature There are supposed to be elections for the legislature in Earlier this year. They were counseled because of COVID And with the new new law imposed by Beijing there was a mass resignation by the pro-democracy legislators in Hong Kong so Effectively Beijing has taken control of Hong Kong's legislature the last or third branch of government the judiciary There's been a number of cases Where judges have brought in their political opinions? Most significantly a non-permanent judge of the Court of Final Appeal Australian Justice Spiegelman resigned in September this year From the Court of Final Appeal citing the new national security law Freedom of expression in Hong Kong is frozen freedom association assembly and mobility of severely diminished Hong Kong was ranked 18th in the world in terms of freedom of the press and journalism, but in 2020 It's it fell down to 80th place In the news right now has been the arrest of Jimmy Lai the founder of apodilly under the national security law Bail was denied, but he secured bail last week from the High Court the Department of Justice director of public prosecutions Has filed an appeal to that to the Court of Final Appeal to seek That the bail be revoked for mr. Lai There's also other examples of journalists like Choi Yook-Ling of RTHK What the Hong Kong authorities have been doing the last year is if they if they cannot find a basis to arrest an Individual journalist or activist or politician on under the new national security law. They use some draconian laws Or try to find some technicality to you know arrest somebody First something that's not even related to their work Simply trying to shut shut up or stop the media from speaking and writing their stories In 2017 there's been an exodus and en masse from Hong Kong. It's been quiet. It's been steady but that exodus accelerated in 2019 and and accelerated even more in 2020 with the new national security law and Talking to clients and colleagues the the shipping and freight companies in Hong Kong are overbooked They're that data indicates that there's large numbers of people leaving Hong Kong They do not see a future in Hong Kong Now Canada started accepting refugees earlier this year and in September Canada started granting refugee status of Hong Kong people who have been politically persecuted because of their participation in protests or they voiced their opinion song pay pay who the Chinese ambassador to Canada and Ottawa Spoke out and I'll quote what he said we strongly urge the Canadian side not to grant so-called political asylum to those violent criminals as Refugees because it is interference in China's domestic affairs and certainly it will embolden those violent criminals I was on 15th of October 2020 and and what is Interesting here is that China is actually a signatory to the UN convention relating to the status of refugees and The refugee convention forms part of China's constitution and part of that is to respect and recognize that other countries will screen Asylum seekers and grant them refugee status if they show well-founded fair persecution whether it's religion ethnicity race nationality political opinion or or other social group and what's also interesting is that in under the Refugee convention under article 1f and 33.2, but 1f in particular that if anybody had committed a serious violent offense Let's say in Hong Kong Even if they're granted recognizes a Refugee they would not be granted refugee status because of that violence So the Chinese ambassador to Hong Kong Apparently doesn't understand the law and doesn't understand or respect that Canada will be looking at Whether any asylum seekers have committed Offenses that would exclude them to exclude them from that protection over the last year We've seen legislators former legislators Members of political opposing political parties flee the jurisdiction. Okay What Hong Kong authorities in Beijing have been trying to do is to find bases or Whether they're found it well found founded or not On evidence but to arrest them put them into the Hong Kong criminal justice system and in applying for bail Typically a condition is they hand over their travel documents. So there are a lot of activists and politicians in Hong Kong who can't leave Because they don't have travel documents Beijing and Hong Kong clearly want to close the borders on anyone who's enough, you know Expresses dissent against the Hong Kong or Beijing governments But there are There have been legislators and political activists who have fled and I've put on a slide Ray Wong and Ellen Lee had fled in 2017 about that time and were granted refugee status in Germany Baguio Lung recently fled to the u.s. Simon Chang Hongklau, Sunny Cho, Ted Hoi, Nathan Law, Wayne Chan, Samuel Chu have all left Hong Kong and they're all seeking asylum political asylum in western europe or north america Now coming back to the Snowden refugees And what I'd like to do before going into the situation with one Snowden refugee In Hong Kong. I'm just going to give you a quick update on Vanessa and her daughter who are now resettled in Montreal They've had a hard time of it during the pandemic In Montreal and I've put up a photo from september 2020 which really shows you know really projects the feeling You know after almost a year of having to practice social distancing and ever other Safe practices so they don't get infected or infect others um A non-profit uh, just to update everybody a non-profit was set up in June 2020 um the previous private sponsors in in montreal had stopped providing support to Vanessa and Kiana in april 2020 which put This this single mom and her daughter in a terrible situation without any food or or rent and uh The last of the money That was provided by the private sponsor was provided in early may so as of june This family had nothing to survive on so um I contacted People I know in the montreal community and they stepped forward and they set up an in a non-profit organization called help venessa.com uh oliver stone academy award-winning director shalene woodley who started in the snowden film also an oliver stone film um stepped forward and advocated to In support and to ask for donations for venessa and her daughter and to date we've raised more than 50 000 canadian which um has now allows venessa and her daughter to remain safe and secure during the pandemic and also to continue their french language studies And this is a photo of them in november 2020 Just last month And this was christmas eve kiana's on the left venessa in the middle And the third person is mintum tran Who's the founder of the non-profit help venessa and kiana. I'd like to quickly mention him He's the son of a refugee family originally from vietnam after the war in 1975 the family resettled in montreal and he was born in montreal Uh, he's a pharmacist and executive director of the association of professionel de pharmacy From a sien salary de kebek He founded the non-profit uh help venessa and kiana and he's also founded a new non-profit called help a jeet.com i'm going to go into a jeet's situation This was 2017 i've put up a photo Of a jeet at the removal assessment section of the immigration department in calin bay and um, this was before A week before immigration rejected a jeet's solemn claims And just briefly uh, a jeet was injured in the civil war Protecting his fellow soldiers. He was denied medical assistance under the geneva convention by his The srilankan army Um And he He was put in an untenable situation where he was looking at losing his life. So he fled He was a military deserter. He was caught A few years later and tortured Uh, there was an attempt to execute him, but he managed to flee the military camp and He fled to to hong kong in 2003 leaving behind his wife and a newborn baby girl This is a i put up a photo of a jeet in 1993 so you can see You know the young man that he was and in hong kong Similar to ibrahim the somali journalist from 2003 onward a jeet has been subjected to systemic racism and discrimination by the hong kong government and its institutions He's been denied sufficient humanitarian assistance And i took on his uh case in 2012 and uh He's constantly been subjected to racial poro filing even Not showing up to conferences Law conferences that i was holding because the police had stopped him on the street as he was trying to get to my office um There's been discrimination by the You know by the police immigration against him and also there's been attacks by the hong kong government against myself With a view of removing me as his lawyer This is a photo of a jeet A couple years ago And uh, he's he's had a very difficult time in hong kong um For 17 years you know, he He was subjected. He's been subjected to discrimination as i've described And all of this has had an An enormously adverse impact on a jeet and that he's His his mental condition has has collapsed a number of times and he's he's just wanted to give up and He's been what i would describe as a victim of constructive refalement But fortunately we were able to convince him and uh, we we did have recently tried to get him some help He's been suffering from post traumatic stress disorder Since before he left Sri Lanka untreated and only recently we've been able to get him a little bit of help Um Going to his role with mr. Snowden in 2013 when mr. Snowden arrived Um, ajeets despite all the terrible things that have happened to him the persecution He's in discrimination. He suffered in Sri Lanka and hong kong ajeets stepped forward and and You know was more than willing to help mr. Snowden Shelter in 2013 and in 2016 Because of ajeets story coming into the public domain um The hong kong government targeted him because of his assistance to mr. Snowden And uh targeted myself and in 2018 ajeet was left without the support of the duty law service But myself and another lawyer found a solicitor willing to instruct us privately to continue his appeal now In parallel to all of this i advised ajeet to apply to canada for refugee status uh private sponsor was found in qbeck and ajeets refugee claims were filed in january 2017 and While all of this was happening the Sri Lankan police aware that ajeet is in hong kong sent police officers to hong kong in december 2016 looking for him um The hong kong police instead of investigating the Sri Lankan police Made a decision to investigate myself and my clients now ajeets Case was rejected by immigration in may 2017 and i filed his appeal in the torturing from the appeal board and this is A major update On ajeet's situation in hong kong In that his appeal was heard by an australian adjudicator Embarrassed or adam more into who took up who was the adjudicator in his case in 2017 heard his full appeal in june 2018 and No decision has been handed down in three and a half years From 2018 to november this year adam more had not handed down a decision and there is no explanation for that and then suddenly in november 2020 the torturing claim appeal board announced that uh Mr. Moore was no longer the adjudicator without giving any reason and Now a panel of three adjudicators would hear ajeets case and start that process all over again um This is uh This is a process that's been delayed And in my view abused by the security bureau and the torturing claim appeal board Uh, it is there's no rational basis why um The torturing claim appeal board did not hand down a decision on ajeets case years ago And uh, this is an example of how this part of the judiciary Uh, there's a lack of transparency and accountability and um The second Significant event is that one of the three adjudicators is an australian adjudicator names Fraser syme and he's one of the three on the new panel of three for ajeets appeal Mr. Syme was also the same adjudicator in the Appeal of the other snowed refugee family of sepulna deca and the two children And mr. Syme rejected their appeals And now the torturing claim appeal board has Found it proper to appoint mr. Syme who's already predetermined Uh decided refugee grounds For sepulna deca family that are the same grounds for ajeets case. So there's an adjudicator on the new tcab panel that Has already predetermined the appeal against ajeet at least on certain refugee grounds So there's an appearance of bias There's clearly a conflict of interest making matters worse is Uh judicial review leave application was filed in the high court in January 2019 Challenging Fraser symes rejection of sepulna deca family's refugee claims So the torturing claim appeal board has put in mr. symes knowing full well That his decision in on the exact refugee grounds Um for sepulna and also ajeet those common grounds may be overturned by the high court So it's quite clear with Years of delay inordinate delay and the removal or disappearance of adam mors the adjudicator and You know the constitution of a new Tribunal after so many years with Fraser syme on there that he's not receiving a fair process here fair hearing Now in terms of ajeet's mental health situation, uh the 2019 pro-democracy protests and the police crackdowns Ajeet saw firsthand how the police were acting arbitrarily and attacking innocent bystanders Uh protesters and this re traumatized ajeet. These are the same scenes in the same conduct of police in hong kong That he witnessed in Sri lanka when he was in Sri lanka the new national security law similar to the prevention of uh terrorism act in Sri lanka Is another factor which has to re traumatized ajeet and he's in fear for his life Making matters worse. There's an immigration amendment bill that's just been brought into the legislature and mind you the legislature has no opposition. It's Basically probaging controlled And then this new legislation immigration officers will now be able to carry guns and steel batons Uh when dealing with refugees, this is simply going to re traumatize My client and other refugees There's now powers to detain asylum seekers effectively indefinitely when they're in hong kong There's new provisions where The immigration officer will decide effectively if interpreters are needed and it'll be the immigration officer's view whether a person A person's screening interviews or appeal should be conducted without an interpreter um The other issue that is shocking in my view is after the first stage of immigration screening if the cases are rejected There are now powers for immigration officers to go to foreign consulates um to obtain To start the process of obtaining travel documents That should never happen until after All appeals um are exhausted So what's happening is that all these asylum seekers contrary to you and guidelines their identities are being exposed at the first stage To foreign governments that they fled from fled persecution from um Usually a hearing could not be held You know before 28 days in the torch climate billboard now the limit is seven days, which again Now How do I view all of all of these changes to the immigration legislation? It's just um A legislative and policy framework That is going to put more pressure on asylum seekers and it violates in my view the doctrine of uh, constructive refalement We're we've set up, uh mint and tran and matril has set up the Non-profit help agith.com and we're asking for donations agith needs support during this time He is waiting as with the other stone refugees the outcomes of their asylum cases in canada But pending that time agith needs help and we'd ask that uh If you can go to the website and donate, um, you know, no matter how big or small the donations are Um agith needs help. Thank you Hi everyone. My name is ibrahim Muhammad of sin I'm a journalist from Somalia Both the Somali government and al-shabab Targeted me. I had been kidnapped And told red the reason I was not killed is because my family and friend is bad ransom Money to spare my life I've lived to Hong Kong Only to be treated like a criminal and subjected to racism as I lived in a buffer to degraded And treated in humanly My life in hong kong was like a slow death I was sent back to Somalia and one is again had to run for my life And could not even see my family. I then found my way to europe leading in greece I found myself in two refugee kamis fighting again To survive the kamis were in hayuman and degrading many refugees were violently injured and killed inside the camp What suffered me was the refugee screening which proceeded repeatedly Hayumaritis in hong kong Do not exit for refugees But I was lucky to have a hayumaritis lawyer Masarabi tibo Without his help. I would not be here today Thank you very much guys I know about that teacher claim appeal in hong kong has been For three and a half years and I know that the educator for his appeal Has disappeared and there is no decision in his appeal after three and a half years I know that appeal board is now starting his appeal Start all over again Now with the three judge hearing his appeal. I think this is so unfair to ajit He has waiting for 17 years for his case to be decided after almost four years the appeal board forces him to step all over again It is the hong kong government causing me All this delay From my own experience in in the hong kong appeal board the judge was unfair and I feel traumatized For ajit To again have to go through another appeal will be a real trauma for him He will be forced to tell his teacher again And it will give him nightmare This is wtf international. You have just seen a recording by robot Through tibia is the lawyer of edwards known and he's now connected Oh mr tibio Welcome, um, thank you for having me here. Um, one thing I had failed to mention in the prerecorded video Discussion is that I two of my clients would have done short videos to introduce themselves to the public and so One thing I'd like to Just mentioned here As I mentioned at the end of the video is that ajit is still in hong kong one of the snowden refugees who who Protected mr snowden when he was in hong kong in 2013 and he does need help and One way you can help us by donations all right. Yeah, thanks for the We are taking questions for mr. Tibo you have uh several You in a during our live program. Um, some of you have asked us And if you go into the streaming window below that you've got several tabs one Chat window and if you click on that you can see the hashtag hashtag Which we'll monitor on mastodon and twitter and you can also join the Backend on the rsc so far. They haven't been any questions in The channel, but uh, mr. Tibo are there any other ways? Um And and watchers who have just seen what you've presented and the very personal messages by your Voices heard in order to to foster the cases of those people you you Yes, as I mentioned Primary way to support my clients In particular a jeep at this time Is to is to make donations. Uh, there's a website At jeep help help a jeep dot com Where you can make make donations various ways from credit card to bitcoin Um, the the other issue is is awareness and discussion. Um, a lot. There's a lot of talk about You know the role of whistleblowers, uh, particularly um in today's world and um But there's been less talk about the protection of whistleblowers and the snowden refugees did the extraordinary by stepping forward Making their decisions of conscience to provide shelter and food and um compassion to mr. Snowden when he was in hong kong in 2013 and um In in all the snowden refugees cases, uh, one of the grounds for refugee protection Is uh, the clients have a well-founded fear of persecution um Based on political opinion in that they made decisions to help mr. Snowden And um, so that forms a social group Those who help or protect whistleblowers And um, I think that you know, there needs to be more discussion about um, you know the importance of people in society who And uh, you know the courage that it takes to step forward and to help somebody Uh, particularly for high-profile cases It's uh, it's easy to help somebody or a group of people um when it's uh A popular person or or a popular cause, um, or if it's a low-profile profile cost But it's extremely difficult for individuals to step forward to help another um when even though the cause is The most just cause um, but it's unpopular So there are legal and moral and ethical issues And I think that should be part of the discussion that that everyone should be having Thank you for that. There's been a question on the jet which I need to rephrase because The question is how to build a global consciousness against And uh to to join up forces, uh, both from a lawyerly and scholarly groups that that believe more in direct action Uh, you'll you'll have to repeat that again. The signal came through a bit choppy Question on the jet, um, whether there's any any efforts to build a global current State oppression more or less and coordinate between teams that take a more Instead leave more in direct action Um I think what's happening is you're seeing, uh, this kind of action, uh with non-profits lawyers Through protests and you're seeing it, uh within communities within cities within whole jurisdictions But I I think what's happened with the covet situation Is You know that that's basically compelled everybody because of the public health issues You know I saw self isolating social distancing masks We've we've had to take a step back to think okay. How do we communicate now? How do we interact and exercise our fundamental rights and freedoms? So I think we're in a in a dangerous period where You know We're we're still struggling how to connect globally To cooperate and bring this kind of awareness about The second issue is to do that. You need to be able to get the message out through advocacy and activism Right now the the covid pandemic consumes the media reports I've been told about 75 or 85 percent of You know news coverage in a given media organization 75 to 85 percent At the same time Governments are using the cover of covid the global pandemic to suppress freedom of expression and To strip away fundamental rights and freedoms So I think the question is a great question and I think it's a matter of You know when doing this through encrypted means doing it where you have your privacy For global groups to consider how do we connect up together? What messages we want to get out? But then the real challenge will be getting the message out through To the public because of the current global pandemic Are there already To go ahead and prepare all the messaging to to come out of the pandemic if and when it is I As far like i'm not aware of of any Considered efforts globally. I mean there are some nonprofits around the world Who are trying to get you know messages out they're trying to get stakeholders with those affected in different jurisdictions, but but right now I'm not aware of of you know any organized considered effort to to try to have this sort of global connection and And being able to speak globally But also locally, you know informing the the global community what's going on I think where it's just um difficult time One of the best examples is hong kong with covet the covet Pandemic there there's been four waves and in the midst of the second wave of the pandemic in hong kong Beijing imposed the new national security law Which basically has stripped away? You know fundamental rights of freedom of expression Um, so I think we're just in a difficult time and it's going to be for different groups around the world to figure out how to communicate You know Hopefully the pandemic will come to an end in the end of this year or next year You know see where we go from there There's one more question from the chat and I think it's a softball pitch more or less Free autonomous press or free autonomous media as in decentralized probably Of getting the message out I uh, the the signal is a bit choppy. I've missed the middle of your question if you could repeat it Again, that would you say that a free and autonomous press autonomous media? Almost as in decentralized probably uncensored would be a cornerstone of getting the message out Absolutely, um, you know one one thing that I've talked about in past talks and um Is that two two things have happened uh are happening at this time and have been happening over the last decade and that is The journalism has you know Mainstream journalism is being eroded uh investigative journalists Are fewer and numbered today and journalism has become more centralized in major urban centers and in smaller cities towns rural areas There is no more journalism there at all in a lot of regions around the world and When those things happen, uh, you have poor behavior of local government In terms of policies Uh public expenditure and also abuses of human rights We we are really in desperate need of having independent Autonomous journalists and journalism At this time more than ever And uh, but at the same time You know journalists who have the capacity and capability to do investigative journalism You know that The problem with what's what's been happening the last five years 10 years is that The media that's centered in the major urban centers Um They're not picking up stories and speaking for the more vulnerable or those who are geographically outside of the main areas And that's a very dangerous thing. So yes, I agree. Uh, there should be autonomous media and um Uh, there should not be censoring on that media. So in fact, if you if you look at that, um, I mean Encrypted communication is well and and everybody should use it especially to to exchange information With journalists, but in the end for the for the general public Um Independent media that is not centralized in in some some few conglomerates Might even be more efficient to get the the message out to the broader masses, right? Absolutely, I think What needs to be done is you need more autonomous journalism and journalists in smaller cities Operating autonomously in the bigger cities Um to be able to pick up stories What what you're seeing right now with with Meet the mainstream media focusing on covid stories. Uh, for example, the u.s elections and donald trump Are that they're not picking up smaller stories. They're not picking up low profile stories anymore Um, and governments are taking advantage of that. They they know that they can act almost with impunity because they know that the smaller stories Where somebody in your community is, you know, fundamental rights are being violated by the government or local authority It's not going to get reported at this time Um, when the pandemic is over The situation will be the same. There's a lack of independent autonomous journalists Um, one of the big problems is this money Um You know a lot of the money that used to go into advertising for mainstream media Even local newspapers is now going online people are spending their time looking at You know online media that has nothing to do with their local communities Or they're even their countries um People are spending their time on youtube and facebook, uh tiktoks another example Where all the advertising is going um, so we we have a situation where enormous amounts of money are going to Only certain media some of the mainstream a lot of it to you know social entertainment online and infotainment and the money's disappearing from That money's disappearing and it's having an impact on two things. One is the funding of investigative journalism number two uh being able to find and support autonomous local media In smaller cities towns and rural areas And i've seen that Here in north america. Um, and I know the same things have been happening in in europe and also in, uh, australia new zealand Alrighty, so this means Subscribing to your local small town newspaper might be even As as well as a as a step in in joining the revolution as using encrypted messaging Absolutely, it's it's gotta it's gotta be a grassroots effort from the ground up Everybody can take their part. We do not have a stage. So, uh, you have to imagine the applause that you're getting via irc right now Thank you again so much for being with us over tibble Thank you


Mercenaries from Russia's Wagner Group have started to train Belarusian special forces at the Brest military range just three miles east of the border with NATO member Poland, the Belarusian Defense Ministry said on July 20. Minsk posted pictures and videos of masked Wagner instructors, their faces covered in accordance with the mercenary group's rules, training Belarusian soldiers with armored vehicles and what appear to be drone controls. Poland, a former Warsaw Pact member which has been a full member of the US-led military alliance since 1999, said it was prepared for various scenarios and was monitoring the situation at the border with Belarus. Poland's borders are secure, we are monitoring the situation on our eastern border on an ongoing basis and we are prepared for various scenarios as the situation develops, the Polish Defense Ministry said. He is priceless for us and now we are trying to analyze it as much as possible in order to eat it all. The instructors have been with us all the time and gave us very detailed advice on how to cover, how to deal with the enemy's defense, how to protect ourselves from unmanned aircraft. The training of the fighters will continue in the next session.


Live from the Austin Convention Center in Austin, Texas, it's theCUBE at Dell World 2014. Here are your hosts, Dave Vellante and Stu Miniman. Welcome back to Austin, everybody. We're here at Dell World 2014. This is day one. Stu Miniman and I will be here as well tomorrow. Ashley Gorak-Puwala is here. He's the vice president and chairman of Dell Server Solutions. Ashley, welcome to theCUBE. Good to have you. Thank you. Thank you guys. So you guys, are you exiting the X86 server business by any chance? We are not. No, you haven't announced that. We are not exiting the business. We saw that, you know, last time we were here, there was a lot of rumors about HP spinning off its PC business. Michael said, we're not doing that. You obviously, it was a tongue in cheek, but you're seeing all these trends. People sort of splitting up. You guys have referenced it a lot, really driven from the financial community. People wanting to maximize the sort of short-term profit. Not really thinking about customers, not really thinking about the long-term viability of the company, but thinking about short-term hits. Maybe not such a bad thing for some investors, but from your standpoint, what's life like as a private company? Well, it's been great. So we just celebrated our first-year anniversary of it this past week, and one of the benefits of it is that Michael likes to call it the shot clock. We're off the 13-week shot clock, and so when we make our decisions, it's no longer about week 13 and then into the forecast a week one. We don't have to worry about what the guidance was. We're really in a mode where we can do what's right for our customers, do what's right for our business, do what's right for our partners, and it's pretty freeing. And so, for example, we are able to take a much longer-term view of what an investment needs to pay off on. If we have a fiscal year, we still may look at ourselves on a fiscal year, but we can look at two or three years, and that's really how you get ahead of some of these trends is you need to be investing forward with partners and our own IP, and so we've really kind of left the tyranny of the 13 weeks behind. And some of the engineers in one of our labs were very, very concerned about some of the engineers in one of our labs put up a fun little poster about others are busy splitting, some are busy merging, but we're busy shipping, so we're really, you know, in the mode of excited about our 13G servers, just launched them last month, and we're shipping and bailability is going great. The ramp is awesome right now. It's right on track for what we predicted, which is the same kind of trend for our 12G. Uptake is good, so it's been very good. Yeah, so I want to come back to the products, but it's such an interesting topic because it's not like you guys don't have internal targets anymore. It's not like if you miss them, everything's okay, right? But I would imagine that maybe the highs aren't as effusive because you're not getting all this crazy, you know, stock market action and the lows aren't as, you know, damaging because you don't have all these negative headlines, but what happens when you miss or you exceed expectations now? I don't know what it's like to miss. So what happens when you exceed? You know what I'm saying? If you're part of a public company and you blow away the quarter, it's like, oh, everything's fine, we're indestructible. You know, sometimes you make bad decisions as a result, but so, okay, so you haven't been missing. You know what I'm saying? The highs, too. I want to tell you a struggle of this is that we would like to be able to say a little bit more about how well we're doing. And so we're actually on both ends. You know, if we do have a miss, we're not going to be talking about that, and we're going to be investing right past that. But if we have great momentum as we do now, right, we're not going to be, Michael has taken the tactic, we're not going to release financials except to the folks who own our debt. And so we won't be announcing those. And so we don't have as much of a direct indicator for the market at large versus one customer at a time or through the field. So even with the analyst community, it's a little, it's got to be a bit of a struggle because we're private. Other people going through quiet periods or changing their dynamics, and it's harder to get a read on the whole market right now. And we would actually prefer there was a read on the market right now because we know that the competition's suffering right now and we're actually growing at double digits. It's kind of a two-sided, but we'll always take this side of it. So Stu, we had to squint through a lot of IDC data this morning. Ashley, I'm wondering if you can help give us your viewpoint on the server market because those that don't look at the market might say, ah, it's all commoditized, it's all x86. There's no differentiation there. We're going to have Matt East foot on later and we'll talk about density optimized servers. The ODMs are taking over some of the really hyper-scale environments. You've got Cisco who's been attacking the performance side of the market, took a lot of market share from IBM who then got out of the business. You've now got Lenovo owning that piece of the business who's going to come strong after your business. You've got Supermicro underneath trying to undercut you on price. What do you guys see as the marketplace? It's a broad spectrum of solutions. So how do you look at the marketplace today and where does Dell's portfolio fit? So good question. First of all, it's big. Depending on how you measure it, we're shipping eight or nine million servers a year. So there's a big opportunity and there's also room for, as you said, very well different segments. So in hyper-scale, let's take that as a segment for a second. We've been very successful with our DCS business. We continue to be very successful, but maybe two, three years ago we started to blend those businesses together because there's so much synergy in where some of that is going in terms of scale-out, different file systems, learning about how to do a workload or an application that is a little bit more vertical, east-west traffic, things trends like this have really been interesting for us to be a part of, and then we're taking that down to, from hyper-scale to your scales, the tagline of moving to different levels of IT. But there's still things you can take advantage of beyond the procurement leverage of scale, which is a lot of the applications are going to go to smaller chunk size. When you need very dense, when you need more, you don't scrap that and start a whole new application stack that's vertical and think, I've got to go get servers, I got to get storage, I got to get networking. You can start to say, I've got to know that has all of that integrated and I can start to just stamp out more and build more and that's a great one. We talked a little bit from hyper-scale to your scale, we've got a converge system that we actually expect most people to buy one per place they want to put it and so that's our vertex platform. So it's converged but it's actually more of a remote office, back office, small business, applications like that. A lot of interesting usage there where people are taking it out to danger zones and a data center right in their arm. I wondered if we could talk a little bit more about the hyper-scale market. What's your take on things like the open compute initiative? Are there any success stories that you can talk about in large cloud or service provider environments where Dell is the standard, my understanding that if I look at the biggest guys, Google doesn't buy from you, Microsoft has been a client in the past but they buy from a few suppliers. What can you tell us about that market and open compute and where you see the biggest 10 to 20 data centers in the world? If you took our data center business which we don't anymore as a standalone we'd still be probably number four biggest server provider and we don't name and we're asked not to name customers obviously and so we'll maintain that confidentiality but we're having a lot of success there. Open compute. Had a big logo slide in there this morning. I was taking pictures. There was a big logo slide. So there's open compute. There was open compute conferences last week. We've been there. We were actually donating some systems management and working with others to donate. We supported Microsoft's window cloud server donation and so we have a pretty rich history of believing choice is pretty important. Openness is pretty important and we like to compete in the spaces around choice and openness for our customers and so we'll continue to do that. It's really, really important up in Hyperscale because you have a set of customers who absolutely know exactly what they want and so we want to be in a position to tailor exactly to what they want and that's that learning and that institutional tribal knowledge we have now is really paying off for customers who are not quite the scale of the customers you added or you referenced. Yeah, Michael talked about this morning the DCS, the new Exascale. It was the XA90. More of a storage solution but when I look at that architecture kind of going beyond, you know, it's not a rack. It's not a blade. It's more of kind of a cartridge or module type solution. Can you give us the update? I believe it was Copper and Zinc were projects that you guys had. Things like the HP Moonshot. Sometimes they might leverage X86 but not only X86 architectures. Can you give us that update? Yep, so whole range of things there. So what Michael referenced, the XA90 is a massive storage capability for you 90 drives. Really, it's probably a better term for it but I'll use the cheap and deep. And where folks are really looking at probably colder data, not cold, but colder data or data that's not right there at tier zero and high performance. And everyone knows that data has just been created at astronomical rates. This is a great product for folks who need to stand up large, large amounts very quickly of storage. And we have a lot of customers you can imagine tied to apps and things like that that are doing that very quickly. In the middle, what we think, we announced FX2 as well and that is a very modular, scalable product that we think is going to be great for scale out and for optimizing per workload. So that's really important to us is why have an average infrastructure that may be good at one workload, not good at another, or is just the average of all. And so some competitors, one you referenced, might take an approach of let me give you an architecture per workload and I'll try my best to hit it. But if you want to go to the next workload, which may be in the same data center, same company or you may even want to reprovision, you need a different architecture. We're taking the approach that we've got the architecture solved flexible enough that you can add or take away all the elements you need to build. Is it OLTP, transaction processing on one side? Is it static web page, front end on another? We can do that in the same infrastructure. And so that's more of the trend we see and I think it plays to the things we've been talking about in hyperscale and what we've been looking at is applications that scale and scale out east-west, direct-attached storage is very important to these applications and we need to be able to build just the right amount of networking and IO but what we can bring to it is put a wrapper around it, a single management layer that's designed from the beginning from a single company. So I wonder if we could talk about this concept of we were talking before you came on actually about server sand. I like to quote Gene Amdahl, the best IO is no IO. So you put the storage as close to the CPU as possible and if it's persistent and it's flash that sort of changes things. So how do you guys look at that notion of flash and how it's changing system and storage design? Yep, so we have a great set of products in the storage group and I don't know if you'll have someone on from there who's coming on. Great, Alan asks that question to Alan and he has a great set of flash products. If you look at where Alan and I are working together there's no question that compute and storage are coming together and that's the way of these future applications these workloads at scale. And so we've taken that tack for quite a while. So in our last generation to our non-Gen 2 we introduced PCI Express Flash that's plug-able. Semantics and feel of a hard drive that people are used to but it's got the new future of PCI Express and flash-based. Then Alan and I worked on technology that if you have a component on the back end you can bring the first tier or tier zero of the flash and put it on those drives. And then you can federate that over a whole cluster and scale it out. So think about now instead of a round trip to write back or get data through switches and through devices you're within basically the server compute complex. Second, if you look at our 73013G set of products we introduced the only 1.8 inch flash drives super dense. Now the capacity isn't there and we're working on that to make sure the capacity gets there in time but it'll always be a little bit behind 2.5 and 2.5 will be a little bit behind 3.5 in terms of capacity. But here these SAT SSDs create another tier so even if you aren't using our and you're using an application just on a standalone you can have 3.5 inch for your data this 1.8 flash for your tier and acceleration tier and then it's all still right next to the computer where you're not making the hops over the internet and out and going north and south and then coming back. We're all in on flash and we think we've got the best set of products by really engineering how we get as much flash into the box as possible. So talk about what that means for customers so they're reducing hops the latencies, they're not spinning devices necessarily unless you want it cheap and deep is it changing the way they're writing applications, are they not there yet are they just sort of using it to deploy less resources how are they getting value out of that? Well performance is easy or maybe straight forward is the better way of saying easy way of measuring it so and early on it was the adoption rate was really based on performance and cost and where that ratio met for a customer is when they started to adopt it. Now it's become prevalent enough that it's being used for tiers and so what you need that's your hottest data or the data that you need immediately or is always being in cash or is the most that you're writing for instance is what we keep in the flash and then we use technology such as deduplication or other methodologies to make sure we have the right data in the right spots and move it as it gets colder out to cheap and deep or rotating or even beyond out of the box. What people can do with this is now instead of outgrowing your mailboxes I'm always having to delete my email so I can send more a lot of the mail applications today can scale if you have enough storage with them and so now you can instead of setting up a whole new rack, procuring more storage configuring everything separately and adding data center room you just add another node and you've got either deeper mailboxes or more mail users that's kind of the virtual storage you've got vSAN or other methodologies storage spaces for Microsoft others that are starting to make sure that where we got to on virtualization for the compute side and the guest OS would start to get to for the storage side as well and that's really important so that we don't separate those two domains and end up managing this very separate from this because that'll be virtualization sprawl. Now another big mega trend obviously is the whole converged infrastructure so you're not only working with your storage but you're working with the networking guys as well talk about how that's changing the way in which customers deploy server technology. I'll talk about Vertex for a second so we have in Vertex standalone really meant for either your dentist's office all the way up to your mega stores meant for data centers of one compute comes in so you have your four blades to run everything you need firewall on one exchange on the other and some backups for that you have server side storage inside of it and then networking and what's really important there is that the usually the consumer is not interested in the networking at that point they're interested in plugging that into the wall and someone else is managing it from afar and so what you have to have is a standalone, let me fire up something different let me get a network technician involved it's usually a remote employee from a data center managing thousands of these that he's never seen and so it has to be seen with, it has to be part of the experience of managing the box not I'm managing the separate networking now but then you go all the way up to some of the scale out things we're doing today where why have eight times more cables than you need why not just take that away imagine a world where you didn't have to do that and someone didn't walk by and take one out and you had to find in that nest the one that was removed why not go down to something where you can aggregate your I.O. and get the benefits without the penalty Ashley, I wonder if you can tell us what you're hearing from customers about refresh cycles when it comes to the servers look at the biggest you know, data sets in the world they buy the cheapest hardware completely something that they use it, they get rid of it because you guys are turning the crank fast 13th generation server, every time you come out with a new one it's faster, it uses less power it has more feature functionality has the rest of the market shorten the refresh cycle or you still find in that they're going to buy it and try to squeeze every ounce of it as they can every year it's a continuum too because as you said the refresh cycle on someone who uses every ounce whatever they measure in there whether it's I.O. or storage or data or CPU the TCO is so low they can get by with refreshing very quickly and a lot of ways they see the IT is their factory and so it's worth put a dollar in, you get a dollar out or more for general IT, I'll give you a stat there's somewhere between 8 to 12 million servers out there, they're still running Windows 2003 servers come next year we're going to have a migration that's going to have to happen but we don't migrate like a consumer product we're going to migrate in a more controlled way where people can migrate their applications so we think this is for us the best time to have some of our customers moved over to this future IT stage instead of just buying the next version and putting Windows Server 2012 on it if they can put that same OS on the kind of architecture of the future that's a great place to refresh I'm wondering if you have any statistics as to how server utilization is for your customers when I first became an analyst I had a lot of arguments because VMware would come in and say we're going to get you 40, 50, 70% utilization and David Floyer the co-founder of CTO Wikibon it's like Stu, 15% is like really good and you know it's heavily, maybe you're getting 30% and if I'm one of the three best in the world maybe I'll get to 50% so where have you seen that discussion move? We still have a lot of folks who are running it single digit but no doubt consolidation for virtualization is the majority now well into the majority and so that is helping so we're seeing that come up all the time but we're still running mostly underutilized in a lot of cases there are some customers though that have figured out how to use utilization and virtualization hand in hand and so they're really running up to the speeds and feeds and when they scale they scale by adding they add more they get more that's where we're trying to get a lot of our customers but there's no doubt that we're still underutilized depending on there's still more choice though in the market do you buy less cores more cores and this can really have a big impact on what your utilization is right Ashley we have it leave it there thanks very much for coming on and sharing with us the visions of Dell server business and good luck going forward have a good rest of the show I appreciate it thanks guys alright keep it right there everybody we'll be back with our next guest right after this this is theCUBE we're live from Dell World


Just want to speak some facts tonight Because there's a lot of videos on here which Kind of tell people What they want to hear?  You were lonely for such a long time You just want to believe that you finally found a good person You finally found someone Who does care about you because I'm all for being optimistic and being positive But I don't really like toxic positivity I don't think that's very helpful And if we're gonna be honest here The truth is that most people Pretty much everyone That you meet in life Is not gonna care about you They're especially not gonna care about you the way that you want them to care about you even if they're not a narcissist Even if they're not a toxic person Truth is people Do care about themselves The most Some of us have to we have to do that to survive to take care of ourselves so Yeah, that's important to understand and even with Impoffs People who care about you more than they care about themselves. That's not good either It's not healthy for you and it's not healthy for them. They should always be a balance. It's good to have a balance so Keep that in mind No one's gonna care about you more Than you care about yourself And you shouldn't want it any other way But as I said there should be a balance Of course People should care about themselves But they should also care about other people To some extent as well Difference with narcissists is that they really do not care about you at all Not even a little bit and that is why you are always trying to get them to understand your point of view You were trying to get them to understand basic concepts Even a child should be able to understand and I'm talking about things like Love Respect these are things that they should already know Yet you were always trying to get them to understand it you were trying to teach them how to have Basic Morals values beliefs and principles These are simple basic things That they could not comprehend or grasp But you try to teach them anyway It was like you were their Parent or their teacher and you tried to teach them because you thought that maybe one day They would get it Maybe one day they would understand That what they're doing is wrong. It's unacceptable. It's literally like dealing with a child It really is It's like you're dealing with someone who doesn't know anything They haven't learned anything. They haven't been taught anything. I mean sometimes you may wonder whether their parents their entire lives How could they go through life this far without even knowing any of this? Because they're always doing things wrong They're always hurting people, but you see it as though They must not know what they are doing They must be unaware of it. They just must not understand they can't know what they're doing because It's so reckless So foolish and it's like they're completely Cold and distant They're insensitive They don't care about you or anyone else They don't even care about themselves Because they even sabotage themselves. They put themselves in danger so You assume that the only logical explanation is that they just don't get it They don't understand what they're doing Because if it was a normal person They would not keep doing something if they know that it is hurting someone Or if they know that it is hurting themselves a Normal person would not keep doing it if they knew that So you assume that the narcissist must not know they must not be aware But you have to understand that narcissists are not normal people They're not normal people at all Because they know that it is hurting you They are aware of that. They understand it They know that they are hurting themselves They just don't care and they don't care because They believe that you deserve it They believe that you deserve everything they do to you So there's no reason for them to regret it. There's no reason for them to be sorry But narcissists are not completely stupid. I mean they are but not completely Because they know That cheating Lying and stealing is wrong They are aware of that they know that it's wrong To hurt people But they don't think that it's wrong for them to do it Because in their minds You have done something very bad to them. So they think that It's okay for them to do what they're doing They think it's justified Because in their minds they believe that you deserve it So that means it's not wrong for them to do it. But if someone else did it then that would be wrong That's how they see it Because those people haven't had to go through what they have had to go through with you That's how they're looking at it like you're attacking them and They are defending themselves against you but in reality all they're actually doing is They are constantly reacting to these thoughts and feelings inside their minds It has nothing to do with you but they are punishing you for that Instead of accepting that it is coming from within them So you might not have done anything wrong. You may not have done anything to them But it's like no matter how much you try to talk to them no matter how much you try to Prove a point to them. It doesn't change anything. It doesn't make a difference Because it's got nothing to do with you anyway.   You've done something to them Or if you haven't then They feel like you could have You would have if you had the chance and in their minds their feelings are facts their feelings become the truth So whatever they feel that is what you said or did Doesn't make any sense That is the problem There's no room for any logical explanation. There's no room for a rational argument Because they do not want to believe you And they do not care about your feelings They don't care if they've hurt you. They don't care about you at all because Everything they've done to you in their minds that is nothing compared to what you have done to them And even if you haven't done anything That doesn't mean that you're not gonna do anything so in their minds you still deserve it Even if you haven't done anything wrong This is why after everything It always comes back to no contact That's what we always advise that's what we always encourage no contact This is why Because you cannot get through to them you cannot get them to see sense You cannot get them to see your side.  Why? Because you're becoming more like them the longer you spend around them. You're becoming crazy just like them That is why The best thing you can do is go no contact That's what helps to clear the fog It helps you to wake up Because there is no points in talking to them. You can't talk to a crazy person without becoming crazy yourself you're just gonna lose your mind in the process and Sometimes it's very difficult to get back to where you were Once you've been involved with people like that You're not gonna get anywhere with it. You're just gonna be wasting your time and Destroying Your mental and emotional health in the process because they are not normal They are not logical or rational people They're like children in adult bodies Their brains are underdeveloped That's why they're so emotional that's why there's always so much chaos and drama and disruption Because they are completely delusional they are in denial And they blame shift they project their issues onto other people Even when you think you finally got it You finally got through to them They finally understand Things are finally gonna change they're gonna get better and then you realize that nothing has changed at all And in fact things are getting worse because it doesn't matter what they say they understand What they agree to What they promise you they might understand something in one moment They might agree to something They might promise you something but then the next moment it is no longer relevant It no longer has any meaning Because there is no truth or logic in their world In this world that they've created inside their heads There's no truth or logic there because it changes depending on how they feel in the moment And that their feelings change from one moment to the next They do know the difference between what is right and what is wrong but only if It is not applied to them They will tell you what you've done wrong, but they don't have that same energy towards themselves Because the truth is just however they feel That is the truth to them So if they feel in their minds that what they did was justified Then the rules are not applied to them. It's always gonna be wrong for you. You can never justify it That's not allowed as an example They may know and understand that stealing is wrong But they're still gonna steal from you if they think it's justified because They need it because you did something bad to them or Because they would they think that if you had the opportunity you would steal from them You would have done the same thing. That's how they're thinking So they always find a way to rationalize it and this is the same thing with any abuser Every abuser has an excuse That is one thing they all have in common they all have an excuse Even where they may not seem like it You may not see it, but they all rationalize it in their heads in some way no one can really Openly and consciously do something wrong Without feeling bad about it without feeling regret Without feeling shame Without wanting to correct it even narcissists They always have to rationalize it There always has to be a reason for it and if you listen to them They will always give you a reason an excuse for their behavior Because they're delusional Their minds are warped, but they know what is right and what is wrong and Just like a murderer They know that Someone tried to kill them that would be wrong That would be unacceptable But they don't think of themselves in the same way because of their minds that they are special They are different to everyone else so the rules do not apply to them They can do whatever they want and it's not wrong But if you or someone else did that Especially if you did that to them Then it is very wrong And you have to pay for it. You have to be punished But in their minds they are specials so they can do whatever they want And that's why you see them Doing whatever they want That's why they're so reckless and impulsive It's why they take so many risks for their lives and their health Because they are completely delusional and they have this magical thinking that The rules do not apply to them Things will work themselves out or someone will come along to save them because they think they're special they think they're God's gift and Someone is going to be there to protect them to give them what they need Because they think they're different to everyone else, but remember this is in their heads So it has very little effect in reality It may have some effect in the beginning of being it It impacts their confidence so they they come across as more confident people maybe even quite arrogant and this Can attract people sometimes Because we want to be around people who are driven who have a purpose People who are passionate and they're very good at emulating that but they always end up losing in the end And not just in the end. They they're miserable every day Remember when you were with them every day there was a problem They were never happy with anything you did for them. It was never enough. They always had a reason why they couldn't be happy and And in the game they just end up destroying themselves everything you saw in the beginning everything that attracted you that gradually fades away because Eventually they go too far They overplay their role They do things that they said they would never do so they end up exposing themselves and Gets to a point where they can't go any further But they can't achieve anymore, but you know what in my own life on my own experience. I have never Seen any narcissist Who continue to develop and grow Who continue to elevate? I've never seen that they all go down in the end they all do The reason for that is because The way that they choose to live it's because of their lifestyle and behaviors Everything that you pointed out that was wrong with them But they wanted to rebel against you they wanted to be disobedient and Yeah, they get what they wanted at the end It comes back to get them if you give them enough rope they will hang themselves because Their disorder does not let them succeed in anything Over a long period of time and of course that is why they are always looking for new sources They're always looking for someone to come along and save them because they know that karma is coming to get them They know they're predestined. They know they're doomed They know that they haven't got anything good to look forward to They know that nothing good is coming for them. So what is the point? Why should they act right Why should they take care of you? Why should they treat you right?  They are nothing like empaths When we do things for people When we show our love and compassion When we care for other people That makes us feel good inside We get something out of that, but they don't They don't get anything from that and actually they They don't really enjoy seeing you happy anyway, unless they could be in control of it and just as quick as they Lift your mood They will want to bring it right back down again So don't fall for that. It's always a rollercoaster with a narcissist Just as soon as you go up You're about to come crashing down again And that's all it is If you look back at your relationship with them, it was just up down up down up down and I think that's why we stayed with them for so long Because we remember when things were up And we want to get back to that when we're down. So a lot of it's And I'm sure you've all experienced this a Lot of your relationship with a narcissist is not actually any happiness or fulfillment It's just waiting around You're just waiting for something to happen You're waiting for something good But it never comes Instead all you get is just this fake affection These lies future faking They're just telling you whatever they think you want to cure But it never goes anywhere. You're just waiting around for something that It's never gonna come into fruition It's never gonna happen The sooner you realize that The easier it will be for you to get out of it. I've spoken to people who Have been in these relationships for decades Some of them even 50 60 years Their entire life just passed on by They waited and waited their entire lives This life is meant to be a gift Whether it's a gift from God or the universe, whatever it is that you believe This is one of the greatest gifts in the universe to be given this life that we should cherish and be grateful for and then These narcissists come along And think that they can just waste our lives away. It's really sick And I just can't get my head around it I mean that really is as bad as it gets to waste someone's life that is the ultimate form of abuse to make someone think at some level for 10 20 30 50 years, however long it is To make them think that you do care about them That you have their best interest in mind when really you don't care You have no intention of things make of making things better You're just keeping them around so you can keep using them Extracting what you want from them So you can isolate and control them And keep them as your own personal puppet To do whatever you want them to do so that you can feel better about yourself But that's what they do That's what these narcissists do and I just can't understand it even now You know, I think of it From my own view and maybe that is why I can't fully Grasp this concept Because I'm thinking about it from a normal logical rational mind that I have And I'm thinking Okay, of course, there's been times in my life where I have been Angry at people maybe someone did me wrong I wanted to get them back. I wanted to take revenge on them and I'm sure we have all experienced that and Let's say you did take revenge on them you Went and you said something horrible to them you insulted them put them down You made them feel bad about themselves Maybe you Even went as far as to damage their property How did you feel? After you did that because I can tell you that from my experience and these types of situations I felt really guilty I Felt really bad. I felt like I had done something wrong And I felt like I never want to do that again Didn't even think about what the narcissist did to me or toxic people who Didn't even think about that Once I had done something To retaliate none of that mattered I Felt bad. I felt guilty And I had no desire whatsoever to do anything else to them. I Just wanted to leave them alone Maybe I hope that we could talk and things would get better and it wouldn't have to happen like that again But here's the part that I don't understand Here's the part that I just I can't make sense out of it And it's the way that They have this Anger and hatred towards us and it's like No matter how much they do to you they could bully and harass you for years for your entire life No matter how much they crush you No matter how much you they they bring you down There's just no cut-off point for the abuse Never stops it never ends Never satisfied That is just something that I just can't understand it If there's one thing that after Over four and a half years of making these videos if there's one thing that I just still cannot understand it Is that that is the one thing I cannot understand? I just don't know how their brains can just Be that way Where they're never satisfied no matter how much they abuse you It's like they never get fed up. I mean I think For myself And I assume that the way I think is how a normal person would think is that And I'm sure Those of you are watching this If you agree with it, then you can let me don't let me know down in the In the live shout of the comments below That's If someone has done something you don't like If they've harmed you whether it's intentional one intentional whatever it is You know, you're you're not happy with something that someone's done. You don't approve of it. Maybe you Take revenge or maybe you just think about taking revenge and that is enough You don't actually have to do anything other than the next day You feel bad about even thinking that Or maybe straight away as soon as you have these these thoughts of Getting them back of hurting them You just feel really guilty you feel like You're doing something wrong you feel shame and it's not like we're the narcissist Where you have that guilt and shame? And then it's like no, no, I don't want to deal with that Are they trying to project and deflect and it's no this is your problem not mine if you're an empath then it's You just can't get rid of it.  I mean, it's not good if you actually do take revenge But even then I can understand especially You know your dinner with a narcissist But then it also depends just how far you take it as well, but yeah, they don't think like that They do not think how we think how normal people think and it's very sad the way that they are just never satisfied with No matter how much they try to take revenge. They're never happy Never make some feel better about themselves. I mean it does for a moment, but then they've got to do something else And it just keeps going on and on Maybe the reason why is because they just never feel like they've won. Maybe that's it Maybe it's just because they're very jealous Very insecure They just have different brains different ways of thinking We all have the same needs We have the same needs as narcissists have they just go a different way About it Of how they try to get it because they don't believe that they can they can get it the right way My head is starting to hurt now Thinking very deeply And it's pretty late at night here almost 11 p.m. So I should probably Have some rest But yeah, we've got a hundred and thirty three live viewers on here only 63 thumbs up So, you know what I'm gonna say Please give this video a thumbs up down below it really helps us All right, that's it for this video. I hope you enjoyed it and I will talk to you in another one very