Let's make Hawaii sustainable. This is Think Tech. We care a lot about that. I'm Jay Fidel. And we have two other people here in the studio that care gobs about that. They have dedicated their lives. David Vogel and T.A.C.E Vogel, T.A.C.E Lopez Vogel. Yes. Don't forget that. T.A.C.E. And together they are VOLO Foundation. Get it? VOLO Foundation, which is, you know, since we met David, what, two, three years ago, Foundation has increased by huge dimensions. We're so happy to have you here. You are great participants in our programming and your supporter of our programming, your VOLO Foundation. Yes. Thank you so much. So say hi. Thank you for having us on the show, Jay. Yeah, thank you. And it's an honor for us to be here in your home. It's an honor to have you. So tell us about VOLO Foundation now as it stands, because you guys have grown, you know, enormously in the past two, three years. You have told me 38 programs, or 30 programs, I'm sorry, 38 next week. Yes. And the pays were growing, yes. Can you talk about it? Well, it's great to collaborate with so many other programs. We've focused our strategy over the last year to focus on public awareness and really focusing a lot on the state of Florida where we live. Florida is probably the most vulnerable state to climate change. We get witness sea level rise and increasing hurricanes. So we really want to increase the awareness there so that the public, the general public knows that we need to change our policies to fix the problem. That's what we want to do to raise public awareness. This is a major issue. I was telling you before the show that we have regular interviews with the journalism faculty at UH Manoa, and they agree that climate change is the single most important issue of our time. Everything else is secondary to that. You guys totally recognize that. So I guess the question is, you know, why, why do you care so much about this? You care a lot about this. You put a lot of time and effort into this. Why? Because I have six kids, and they are my life, and they are the force, the driving force behind everything I do, and we have to reserve a future for the kids. That is my main reason. This takes me to the Juliana case, which was on 60 minutes only a couple days ago. Amazing. Which was really, really striking case, Juliana versus the United States. It was filed before the Trump administration, but it seems to have greater relevance now in the Trump administration. It was filed in 2015 with the Obama administration, and that tells you that this is not a partisan issue. It's not red or blue. It started in 2015 as a group of kids suing the United States government, and what they want is the court to block the government to keep working with the fossil fuel because this is creating climate change, which is affecting their lives, their liberty, and their future. So it is amazing of all the major things that are in the federal courts. This is a more, I would say, is the most life-changing issue. If they win, the government will have to stop subsidizing fossil fuels, and they will have to reduce emissions in unbelievable numbers. So it is, at the beginning nobody even thought it was going to go forward. They tried to dismiss the case twice, and they couldn't. So it finally passed, and it's going to trial, but the Trump administration now has tried five times to appeal that they have amazing amount of evidence, and they say, if we go to trial, there's no one stopping them. Yeah, in 60 minutes, there was a shot of the evidence, and there were binders that were like eight inches deep, a room full of these binders. So you understand that. You went to MIT, by the way. You sound like a lawyer. I'm an attorney. That's why you sound like a lawyer. I love those cases. And this is an issue that requires lawyers, but it also requires computer guys, numbers guys, David, and that's where you come from. You are MIT data, computer science, and you understand about those binders that are eight inches thick. What's important, I show that the evidence is driven by data. It's not just my opinion or her opinion. The data shows, I mean, therapeutically, that humans are causing global warming, and that's causing severe economic impact. So I mean, your organization of all foundations is really directed at getting the data and presenting the data to people who make policy, people who can affect change. Did I say that right? Completely. I'm amazed. Yeah, we want to be different from others because we are data-driven, and that, I think, is what makes us unique in what we do. It's not about an opinion. It's not somebody's said. I mean, there is a saying, without data, you're just someone with an opinion. And we want to have the data behind everything we say, everything we expect people to believe is because it's science-proven. And Dave is an amazing data predictive modeler. So he is a renowned person on this. So I think they'll believe someone like him. Yeah, so it's not just presenting to policymakers, it's presenting to voters. Because voters- We need that. In order for policymakers to change their policies, voters need to understand, too, that that's an important policy. Because we're all about a strong economy. I mean, Democrats and Republicans believe we want a stronger economy. It's the number one issue. When they rank climate change number 10 on the list, what we're trying to show is the climate changing is the most harmful thing to the economy that there is. We sit here and we save maybe two cents a kilowatt hour by getting natural gas instead of solar energy. Meanwhile, that carbon in the atmosphere is charging 12 cents a kilowatt hour in damages that makes no economic sense. And it's just driving a thing in denial about that. It's just driving our economy further downward. Especially in Florida, I think politicians have failed the public. And we are one out of the 13 only states that haven't even set goals on energy, on renewables. I mean, Hawaii is amazing. Hawaii set their standards way back when. But Florida, Florida should be a pioneer. We should be driving, especially in solar energy. And we're not. So we need politicians that really don't fail the public, the voters. But the voters have to speak up.  I mean, the essential point is that if climate change will destroy the economy, and if you don't have an economy, well, what's the purpose? It's really a terrible result. We can talk about the overarching effects later. But let's talk about the data you've accumulated. Because you had certain data when last we met. You've been updating that data. You've achieved it from many sources. We have some slides where you can give people a general idea, a summary of the data you've collected. Why don't we go through those slides now? Yeah, we'd be happy to. So what's this? So this slide presents just very simply what carbon dioxide does for us. You've got the Earth and the Moon roughly the same distance from the sun. 92 million miles, only 200,000 miles apart, and a difference in 62 degrees average temperature. And the whole reason is that it's been known for 200 years that the whole reason that we're 60 degrees warmer than the moon is 2 trillion tons of carbon dioxide. So that's been one on fact amongst scientists, physicists for many years. What we've added as humans using fossil fuel, burning fossil fuels is an additional 1 trillion tons. So that doesn't really take a rocket scientist to understand that 2 trillion tons makes a difference of 60 degrees and an additional 1 trillion tons is going to be significant. And that's going to cause another 6 degrees of warming of which we've already seen 2 degrees of that. And humankind is at the root of this. And it's so easy to prove that because you can take that 1 trillion tons and you just look at the energy reports as I manage a hedge fund. We look at oil inventory numbers and we go through 35 billion barrels of oil a year. I mean, simply multiply that by 200 the weight of a barrel of oil. And you can easily over the several decades show that every molecule that 1 trillion tons is attributed to fossil fuel emissions. It's really just, it's like arithmetic, no complicated physics there. Some people, I mean this is really important. Some people think that the humanity is too small, that its effect on the planet is too small to actually affect these changes. But they're wrong. Humanity has a huge effect on the planet and is having a huge effect on the planet. I will increase that effect if we don't do anything about the planet. What would you add to David's remarks? I would say that Greta Thumber, the Swedish activist, she was one person sitting in front of the parliament for days and days just asking for action on climate change. And this girl in one year, she started attracting the media. And in one year she has mobilized over a million and a half kids to do the school strike every Friday for action on climate. So if one girl can do this, tell me about the population of the earth. We are causing climate change and we have the tools to reverse it. And we have the tools to stop it. We just have to act. Like she says, one of her, I think the most amazing thing of her said is like when your house is on fire, you don't talk about it. You don't sit down and talk about it. You act and our house is on fire. We should act now. We have the IPCC report giving us 12 years. We have all the governments of every country they have to act. Stop talking. Absolutely. Let's go to the next slide. As it unfolds, so to speak. And this is something we derived ourselves from Volo Foundation. It's actually very consistent with the IPCC report and what the physicists say, but using basic actually high school level physics and chemistry equations. You can show that we've experienced two degrees of warming. It actually fits the model of warming if you actually model out the carbon dioxide per year. What are the years on that chart? And it actually goes from the beginning of the curve is basically the late 19th century industrial revolution when we started burning fossil fuels. And because we keep increasing the level of CO2 in the atmosphere, it accelerates the change in temperature. So the blue dots are the actuals. And the line is the projection of our model. And you see we've got another 15 years until the next one degree of warming. And the slope of the chart, the upswing of the chart, logarithmic. And it's exponential, actually. And it's only exponential because we keep increasing the CO2. It would be more linear if the CO2 were constant. Every man, woman, and child has to know this. Yes. OK, let's go to the next one. And this is specific to hurricane data. I've been from Florida just looking at hurricane damages alone. When we talk about a few degrees, it seems like a small thing. When you actually look at the relationship, that top left graph is the relationship between temperature of the water and hurricane frequency. So hurricane season, that's actually defined as between May and November because that's when the water is over 80 degrees. Wait a minute. We're in June. That's between May and November. That's right. So we are in hurricane season. We've got water just hitting 80 degrees. September is typically the warmest water. And we see the 84 degree water. And that's why we get the biggest hurricanes. So a couple of degrees is the difference between a category 1 and a category 4 storm. Is that exacerbated in the El Nino year? Yes. El Nino will cause natural fluctuations. But the warming will, in any condition, accelerate the likelihood. I explain it to people that don't understand the data, like when you have fever, at two degrees in your body makes you feel miserable. You bet. So people think, oh, well, one, two degrees is not so much. What happened when you go from 97 to 100? You have fever. You have to go to the hospital. That is the effect. You guys are studying all the effects.  Everything, it happens. And all the things that people, when you ask people that are going to vote, what are their major subjects that they want their candidates to talk about? They talk about immigration. They talk about terrorism. They talk about economy. Everything, absolutely everything, is caused by climate change. Because people are going to have to mobilize. They're going to have to, some islands are, as we speak, sinking, Jakarta, Maldives. So those people are going to have to move, and it's going to cause immigration in other countries. Yeah. It's causing immigration already here in the United States. Immigration into Europe. In fact, the migration from South America. Over here. Because they don't have the extended climate they had before. Reculture has been affected. So they don't have anything to eat. The coastal zones have been, because of the sea level rise, the fishery, everything is affected by it. Even terrorism, the Syria war, was named by the UNESCO, I think, was named by a water war. It was caused by a natural effect. So those are the things that people have to understand that everything is driven. So you could draw a line from climate change to a lot of trouble in the world. Absolutely. And the more climate change you have, the more trouble. I'm getting a headache. Can we take a short break? Come back and re-address these issues as David Vogel and Tase Lopez Vogel, right here from Vogel Foundation. Aloha, I'm Stan Osterman, a host here on Think Tech Hawaii, a digital media company serving the people of Hawaii. We provide a video platform for citizen journalists to raise public awareness here on the island. We are a Hawaii nonprofit that depends on the generosity of its supporters to keep on going. We'd be grateful if you go to ThinkTechHawaii.com and make a donation to support us now. Mahalo. Aloha, my name is Mark Shklav. I am the host of Think Tech Hawaii's Law Across the Sea. Law Across the Sea is on Think Tech Hawaii every other Monday at 11 a.m. Please join me where my guests talk about law topics and ideas and music in Hawaii, Anna, all across the sea from Hawaii and back again. Aloha. Okay, if you didn't guess it before, we're talking about new numbers in climate change with David and Tase, and they are the principles of Bolo Foundation. We are happy to have them here. So we have more slides. We're talking about data because you guys are driven by data. And indeed, data is fact. It's not an alternate fact. It's real fact, my definition. Okay, let's look at some of the other slides. Okay, the important graph here is on the right. It's showing who's paying for all the damages of the increasing hurricanes. So we got, I got on the show two years ago and... You've had three shows with us. That's correct. I predicted the bigger record hurricanes are coming. And now we've had two years of record-breaking hurricanes. Strongest storm ever to hit the panhandle last year and our liners had devastating damage. This graph shows who's paying for it. And the insurance companies have gotten smarter. They're probably the only... They've sort of stopped insuring, you know, providing... We'll find a way not to pay for it. And so when you look at this graph here, look the taxpayers have gotten from 30% up to now 50% of the costs that we want to come up with these aid packages. I mean, it's come out of everybody's wallet. So we talked about the economy being affected, maybe saving a few cents to go with natural gas, but we're paying now $50 billion packages to fix these basically what we call man-made hurricanes. Yeah, and that will affect disposable income and thus the economy. Yeah, absolutely. What's the next one? And this illustrates how the sort of risk that fossil fuel companies incur because in other industries where they've withheld the truth about the effects, you see they end up with hundreds of billions in lawsuits. We saw that with the tobacco industry. They've had the lung cancer effects for years. Eventually it came right back on them, same with the asbestos industry. And so that just illustrates the risk that comes with this kind of sort of fooling the public. It takes me back to the whole discussion of messy, because where we are now, which is not great. I mean, looking ahead, it's not optimistic. And where we're going to get here, depending on what year you pick, it's going to be messy. We're going to suffer. The economy is going to dry up in many places. What was the remark was the United States would become a third world country, but the whole world would become a third world country. Or fourth. Do they have fourth world countries? That's true. You know, it strikes me, though, that from what you were saying a minute ago, David, that we're going to have disruption. Disruption in our society, in our relations, people-to-people relations. And a lawyer would be able to see that the courts would be clogged or dysfunctional because the courts will not be able to handle all the disputes that arise out of the losses and damages that come from climate change. What will we do? What will we do? We have to start acting. Like I said before, we have to start asking, first of all, putting a price on carbon. I think that is essential. We have the solutions page in our website, VoloFoundation.org. VoloFoundation.org, yeah. I think carbon price is inevitable. Dave knows about carbon price and how it will affect. And we need to start acting. It's not actually that complicated from a policy standpoint.  We don't just throw the garbage into the street or in the neighbor's yard. That would be insane. That's what we're doing with carbon. If you put a price on it, then that will actually cause the basic economics to clean up. Once we put the real price and see how expensive it is, then we move toward cleaner economy. Well, I think it's going to change the economy. It is changing the economy. It may be sometimes imperceptible in a given issue. But over time, that's the problem. We have to connect the dots. That's why I appreciate you're updating your numbers. Because the dots say two years ago, say one thing, the dots now say another thing. And we have to see the trends so that we can figure out how things are changing. And that should be pretty scary.  Well, this graph shows very interesting is that the actual damages in the recent decade, the damages done by fossil fuel emissions actually exceeds the entire income of the fossil fuel industry. So they're basically got a free ride causing making excellent revenues but doing more than those revenues and damages. It's crazy. Yeah. Next? And this is showing the lawsuits that are starting to build against the fossil fuel industries. So it started a few years ago with a couple cities. Now we've got New York City, Baltimore, Rhode Island joining the fight. So it's really mounting as people are understanding the real truth of what fossil fuel companies have been doing. Yeah. I asked you before we started, you know, the data that you're collecting and verifying and demonstrating and teaching people through the media and otherwise. I heard your NPR. Oh, well, thank you. It was very nice. More than Mary, really.  Does that go to finding out how bad it is? Is it go to finding out, you know, how much worse it's getting or it could get? Or is it go to identifying the kinds of things that we have to do to reverse this? Or is it all of the foregoing? I think it's all of the above. Yes, all of the above. And basically every number I've showed you in the slides is based on data. So none of it's my opinion. It's showing, I mean, it's a quantifying number of barrels. It equals so many tons of CO2. The connection between the warming, the way hurricanes thrive in warmer conditions. It's all data that I've showed. None of it is zero opinion. Data in air pollution, data in water pollution, data in hurricanes. We focus more on hurricanes in these slides because of Florida is the hurricanes are more impactful there. All connected. But it's all connected. And the quality of life that our kids and the future generations are going to have is not going to be compared to what we have right now. So that's what we want to preserve. The quality of life. Earth is going to keep here. It's going to evolve. Nature knows how to evolve. It's us and the people that are going to go through bigger temperature changes, immigration, like I said before. Disruption of all kinds. And we have to adapt. So adaptation and mitigation are things that our constituents have to ask their candidates because it's coming, it's here, and we have to attack. We are in it for sure. You had one more slide, David. Can we see that? OK. Really, we just wanted to present here how you convert a price tag of the damages to a price on a price per ton of carbon. So if you're going to price carbon, we basically just got to look at how the data shows how much damages have been done. We can see that the 1 trillion tons that we have put in the atmosphere is going to cause about $50 trillion in damages. That comes out to about $50 a ton, which is hard for people to comprehend. So what that comes out to per gallon of gas is 50 cents a gallon. And that may move people to, if that's priced in, move people to electric vehicles. You can see burning coal. It's $0.05 a kilowatt hour. So it's not cheap. But if that's priced in, then obviously you can see the renewables and nuclear in the lower right corner are not, there's no carbon damage. The transition to renewables is going to generate jobs. It's going to make the economy better. It has happened in other countries in Sweden and Germany and Canada. So we can do it. If they have done it, we can do it. We have to have a political will to do it. I mean, this administration, only a week ago, reversed the Obama energy policy from renewable to coal. We're back in coal. When these things are happening in the environment, it's remarkable to think that. So I want to ask you guys, the kids you're talking about, they have to be activated. All the people have to be activated. When they have these debates right now, they're going to have it what, tonight and tomorrow? Tonight and tomorrow in Miami. That has to be an issue. And it wasn't in one of the questions, the climate change, that they didn't want to debate climate change. But I know for a fact that they have people in front of the stations just asking and having billboards and all kind of movement and activism for them to go into climate change. It's so critical. And we must make people understand. And I hate to use the Charles Dickens' Ghost of Christmas Future kind of analogy. You remember Scrooge is taken into the future. And he has shown the future if he's not decent. And the future is very dire in the Christmas Carol book by Charles Dickens. So what is the dire result? If there was somebody, say a politician, a public official, who didn't get it, what would you say to him or her about the future to show him that there's really no choice on this? Meanwhile, you've got sea level rising from melting ice. So eventually these coastal cities will go under water. I mean, the economy will just get worse and worse until we actually have the political will move away from fossil fuels. And then once we have that political will, then we can make the world better and better again. It's really critical. And the lives will depend on it. Like you said, we have to do it now. We can't wait. I'm going to say like Greta Thamber say, I don't talk to those people. It's a fact.  It is. It's a fact. I'm not going to discuss it with you. Right. You can't argue about silly things like that. You just don't talk to those people. So what's the future for Volo Foundation? You guys are putting so much energy into this. And you're getting so much traction.  So question, what is the future for you? How do you see the future unfolding? You know, in terms of your own growth and extension and in terms of your effect on this issue in society? Right now, it's really presenting. It's analyzing and presenting the data that people understand. And that's policymakers, voters. It's generating that political will. And we'll keep sharing all our findings. We have climate correction to the 2000s It's on October 3, 2019. I was already in 2020, because it's every year. We have it at UCF. And we bring the most amazing speakers, scientists, to share, educate, and act and find solutions for climate change. A reaction from me, then. You guys are working together. You're together. It's a great community when you have a husband and wife together. Together. And then you're bringing other people into this community by the carload. So now the community is bigger. And the community includes kids, at least six. At least. Maybe more. No, six is enough. Don't try that at home. So it's great to see that. It's great to see that community developing.  And I want to thank you for doing it. Thank you on behalf of the eight, nine billion people in the world. Thank you for having us. Thank you. Follow us at volafoundation.org. Yeah. Thank you, Tess. Thank you. Thank you very, very extreme. Aloha. Aloha. Aloha.


Daily Tech News show is made possible by its listeners. Thanks to all of you, including Hi-Tech Oki, Logan Larson, and Mike Akins. Coming up on DTS, James Thatcher joins us to explain about how those solar panel backups we talked about yesterday might affect other consumer electronics. Sarah sums up the reviews of the Kindle Scribe e-ink tablets and why we might not get a replacement for Twitter after all. This is the Daily Tech News for Wednesday, November 30th, 2022 in Los Angeles. I'm Tom Merritt. And from Studio Rebed, I'm Sarah Lane. In a very cold Salt Lake City. I'm Scott Johnson. And I'm the show's producer, Roger J. How cold? How cold? Well, this morning it was 13 degrees, currently like 21. So that's negative Celsius. Yes, that's Fahrenheit, so it's freezing conditions and it's gross. And this is what we signed up for. Well, then let's let's warm you up with the quick hits. Several Chinese cities, including Shanghai and Zhengzhou, announced plans to lift COVID-19 related lockdowns. As a result of unrest at Foxconn's Zhengzhou plant, spurred by the lockdown, Apple analyst Ming Qiqiu estimates the average capacity rather utilization at the plant was only 20% back in November. It's pretty low. Expected to improve to up to 40% in December, but obviously still pretty low. OnePlus announced it will bring longer operating system support to some of its Android devices starting in 2023. Some OnePlus devices, select OnePlus devices, will get four major platform updates. And since those platform updates come about once a year, you're going to get four years of feature support, as well as five years defined as five years of security updates. OnePlus did not yet say which models will fall under this new commitment. Corning says its new Gorilla Glass Victus 2 can survive a one meter drop onto concrete without any trade-offs in scratch resistance. Phone makers report that more than 30% of drops occur on concrete more than any other surface. Gorilla Glass Victus 2 will show up on flagship phones from what it says is very large OEMs in the next few months. Yes, Victus II, as I like to call him. Three Chinese astronauts arrived Wednesday aboard the Celestial Palace space station to become the first in-orbit crew rotation since the station began construction in April 2021. The previous crew had been aboard since June. Prior crews had had to leave the station and clear out before the new crew had arrived. So this in-orbit rotation tests the station's ability to support six crew members at once, at least temporarily. This was also the final mission in the construction of the station. Another non-cryptocurrency blockchain-based project is ending. IBM and Maersk will discontinue the Trade Lens Supply Chain platform in Q1. You might recall that Trade Lens was launched back in 2018, but the company said they couldn't really get the collaboration they needed to reach commercial success. Yeah, well, maybe someone... There's a lot of other projects like this. Maybe somebody else... Yeah, it could kind of be reimagined. Alright, let's talk about that Kindle scribe. Yeah, so the reviews are out for Amazon's Kindle scribe and as a user of its competitor, they're remarkable to one of the competitors, but a really close one. I was curious to see what the folks were saying. So we looked at four of the reviews out there to see the pros and cons. First, the basics about the scribe. It's a 10.2 inch Kindle tablet, largest of its kind. First new model since the Kindle Oasis was launched back in 2016. There have been some updates to existing models, but nothing fully new. This is a reimagined product. The company told TechCrunch it took as long as it did because it wanted to get some of the features right, like front lighting, the line-wide 300 ppi. The company sells two versions of the scribe. There's a basic pen version. They both have pens and a premium pen version with storage options that range from 16 gigs to 64 gigs. And it starts at $350. The priciest Kindle yet, but again, new category. The basic pen version can write on the screen. That's kind of it. Next, the premium pen has a cool shortcut button for quick actions like maybe you want to trigger the pen's highlighter mode, something like that. There's also a dedicated eraser on the opposite end of the pen. My remarkable two pen pro has the same thing. And it's pretty nice. So let's hear what else folks said, Scott. Well, let's talk about TechCrunch first. Their review notes that the scribe share some key elements with the Oasis in particular, like flush glass display, which is pretty nice. It has asymmetrical side bezels so that while holding the unit, it doesn't trigger the touch display. I think that's actually a really important feature. But the scribe doesn't have a physical page turn button or set of buttons on the surface, which in TechCrunch's case, they thought that was a missed opportunity. I think I agree. Though it does note the plus is that the scribe ships with the USB-A to USB-C cable. So you don't have to go fiddle around with dongles or figure out your own way to do it. It's not straight USB-C, which will come in handy. If you've got some cables lined around. Yeah, I mean, a lot of us who say USB-C all the way still have a lot of those USB-A. So yeah, that is kind of a plus. ZD Nets review was interesting because it described an almost identical experience to how I first felt when I reviewed the Remarkable 2. In fact, that was a live with it segment from last year. Certainly a scribe competitor, but it's not, you know, the Amazon ecosystem, which is, I think, a minus for Remarkable folks unless they just don't care about anything Amazon or Kindle. You can create notebooks and organize notes of a variety of ways with the scribe. You can take documents from your computer or a phone or a tablet to the scribe. If you're on your computer, you can use Amazon's updated send to Kindle website where you can drag and drop documents, upload them to your scribe. So, you know, it's kind of like a cloud situation. You can also send documents to the scribe from your phone or tablet using the share button and select the Kindle app as the destination if you so desire. ZDNet said this doesn't always work perfectly, but they expect some of those things to be ironed out in the future. ZDNet also noted that images and word documents are pretty much restricted to adding things like sticky notes in the scribe, but writing and highlighting in a PDF document was pretty open. Well, that's interesting. And Gadget says of the scribe, here's some of the pros. These are things they like. That's a perfect time for my screen to go black, and now it's coming back up. There we go. That's a good one. That's a good one. That's an important one. This is the reason I want this device, is that number one thing right there. They also, and there goes my screen again. This is really unfortunate. There we go. Premium, thin, and light design. Again, another nice thing. You want a nice ergonomic, non-heavy sort of device. They also said it had a very roomy canvas for reading and writing. And as far as cons go, they said no handwriting to text conversion. So a little bit of a bummer there and not water resistant. So don't spill anything or take it in the rain. Yeah. The not handwriting to text conversion thing is kind of a bummer because it works really well and they're remarkable. Works really well. In fact, you really have to have bad handwriting to fool it. So that's something to think about. Moving on to the Verge's notes. The Verge noted that scribes great, had great battery life for an e-reader, especially of this size. What they didn't love though was the recommendations that Amazon offered. Signing out for subscriptions to Kindle Unlimited and Audible kind of felt egregious given the scribe's premium price. Again, 350 bucks. You don't really want to see upsell stuff from Amazon. The Verge also preferred the scribe's reading experience over the remarkable too. This one's interesting, especially the annotation ability where with the scribe, you can create little notes, let's say as you read a book. Maybe there are certain passages you really want to remember later. And then it automatically collects all of those annotations in one place. Remarkable too is a little bit clunkier when it comes to that. Although, you know, they're pros and cons to both. The Verge says for most people, the scribe is a solid choice. If you're looking for a simple note taking device or just a big e-reader, maybe you're not even going to do any annotation, but you just like the screen size. Doesn't really blow away its competition though. And those would be namely the remarkable too. The Onyx Books Note Air 2 is another. Yeah. Okay. So big advantages. The screen probably stays on. Doesn't it only scot like his screen did just now? Yeah. But also, Sarah, as an owner of the remarkable too, having gone over all of these reviews, does the Kindle scribe tempt you?  So I'm not in the market for another Kindle anyway, but let's just say I didn't have an Oasis. I just had the remarkable too, which there are many ways you can sync variety of books and certainly a variety of documents and you can do a lot of content creation on the remarkable to itself. I don't see a reason to buy the scribe. I see it as not exactly Apple's to Apple's competitor, but pretty darn close and in the same price range. These are pricey things. I don't know who would want the scribe just for the bigger screen, because you kind of have other options at that point. Yeah. I know you don't draw or like sketch a lot, but do you think the remarkable too is a better sketch device, just if you had to guess? I do. And the reason is that the pen has more just sort of fun flair to it. Not only does it, you know, because I've got the fancier pen that has the eraser on the back, but I can do like calligraphy pen or ballpoint pen or pencil or I don't know, you just have more of that kind of artsy stuff that maybe you wouldn't take advantage of if you're just writing some notes down, but they are some nice extras. I was going to say, it sounds to me like the upshot of the reviews that you looked at are, this is a great reading device, as most Amazon Kindles are, but if you're trying to get the stuff that the remarkable is the note taking, it's not quite there, at least not yet. Yeah, and I think, you know, I suffer from this too where I go, ooh, features, more features is better, but you kind of have to be honest with yourself. Do you carry around a notebook in a pen often? Do you write down stuff? Do you kind of sort of sketch out things, whether it be words or images or whatever, and is that helpful to you? If so, this might be your next device, but if you don't do that, then it might be something that you're paying for for kind of no reason. Yeah, yeah. All right. Well, thanks for paging through all that stuff. Y'all, that was helpful. Well, you're very welcome. What's your, what's your... Tuesday, we mentioned that around 23 gigawatts worth of solar projects hadn't been delayed in the United States so far this year, because solar panels are being held up in ports as U.S. customs agents enforce new rules that require manufacturers to prove their products were not made by labor in China's Xinjiang region. That law is affecting more than just solar panels, though. James Thatcher from thetradenerd.com, aka Big Jim, kindly agreed to give us his insights on how this might affect consumer electronics and more. Jim, thanks for doing this, man. Well, thanks for having me, Tom. Yeah, it's, this is, this is actually not a new regulation per se. This was actually passed last year. The enforcement action had started back in June. So it's not brand brand new, but it takes time for customs to build the cases that they need to be able to start these stop and seizure applications. Yeah, so I'm guessing, tell me if I'm wrong here, but something is coming from China and the customs agents have discretion about whether to, you know, look at the paperwork more closely or less closely to make sure that it didn't come from this region. Is that why we're seeing solar panels make the news first, just because there's more of those coming from China? Or why is that? Well, it's a specific region within China, the Xinjiang region within China. And I apologize to all of our Chinese Mandarin-speaking people. I never say Xinjiang right. I understand that that that's the region that's being targeted. But anything coming from China, they're making prove that none of it was made in that region. So the company that I specifically work for constantly we get requests, was this made in this area of China and we have to either declare or not declare that it was. I will say for my sake, my company doesn't make anything in that region. We don't buy anything in that region to my knowledge or manufacture anything in that region to my knowledge. But we do have to sign off on these items because, you know, we have to prove it. Now, when you export something to the United States, there's various different reporting requirements that you have to do to customs. And I'm not going to go through the plethora of customs requirements. But yes, customs is aware of who the shipper is, who the manufacturer is at the time of sailing. I guess the big question is, how does a company not get caught in the delay? Is there a way to speed the process along? Well, the first thing is... How does Apple avoid that, right? Well, for the first, well, for the most part, I can't speak to Apple supply chain directly because I'm not in Apple supply chain. But I would assume that Apple actually does make sure that none of their components are coming from this area. They take it back at the purchasing phase. A lot of this comes back at the purchasing phase where you look at and say, where am I going to source these goods? Where am I going to source these materials from? And building within that, you're going to say, I'm not going to source from this specific geographic area that we know is going to have a problem. The other thing that a lot of purchasing people do, and I know our company does, we will send out quality inspection people to not only validate is the product that's being made at this factory the right product and does it look good. We'll also validate things like, what are the worker conditions? What's going on in this facility? Could we see any red flags there? Is there anything specific in this facility that we think would either cause us a problem with governmental authorities or, in a lot of cases, public relations issues? Nobody has to be fired that they're doing that. Sorry, it sounds like even if you do that, you still might get delayed because you have to prove it. You have to show the documents. Right, you do have to show the documents. Now, one thing I will say is when customs does take these actions for the most part, the first step is they will put the goods on hold. Okay, so you will know at the time of customs entry, which you can do up to five days before the vessel actually physically arrives. You can make your customs entry to customs, your declaration. If customs puts it on hold, you will know right away. In which case you usually get a message within the system and I don't, again, don't want to get into the specifics of how that works, but you'll get a message in the system of if they're looking for something specific or if they were looking for some specific documentation, they'll request it. And if you provide it within a timely manner, usually within 48 to 72 hours it's released. And, you know, if you do the timing right, you never even see a delay. Most consumers don't know when things are even on delay with U.S. Customs because we're trying to get that information back and forth before everybody gets to kill. So what causes the solar panels to get delayed? My guess is they can't prove that these weren't made in this region. Customs has done their investigation. They haven't done as much legwork on the other end. Well, that's part of it. But the other side of it is, customs in this situation from my reading of it and various AP sources, I don't have any insight of customs specific to this. It looks like customs has made a pretty rock solid case that no, these were actually made in this area and these were actually used with forced labor. There was parts that came from Xinjiang. Yeah. Yeah. And the specifically Uighur labor that is really being pushed with regard to that. And so I think in that regard, if customs is building that much of a case and that big of a case, that's definitely an issue. We're seeing this ramp up of forced labor from customs across the board. It usually, well, I shouldn't say usually, it wasn't in the past as huge of an issue, but now it's becoming a stronger and stronger issue. So it sounds to me that if I'm a consumer and I'm shopping for holiday gifts, not that that's the most important part of this thing, but it's what's going to hit most of the listeners in their homes. If it's a big brand that I'm familiar with, probably going to be fine. Yes. It's those smaller deals, those Amazon things where you're like, never heard of the smart plug maker before. That stuff might be more affected. Is that fair? From a consumer standpoint, yes. The other side of it is also commercial standpoint where you might have components that are brought in from those areas and kitted or produced further in the United States, Mexico and Canada. And those areas also have this anti-weager area act in the allocation, not necessarily from US customs, obviously, but from Canadian customs and Mexican customs. They're both looking for those areas as well. So it could cause products to not necessarily hit the shelves as fast as we think they would. Yeah. Good to know. Well, Jim, thank you so much for helping us understand this a little more. If people want to follow you, see what else you're up to out there. Where should they go? Best place to go is our DTNS Discord. I'm in there all the time talking to everybody. Come on in. It's a grand old scheme. I will tell you, I'm on Twitter at jthatcher79 or the trade nerd, but you're best likely to hit me at the Discord. Fantastic. Thanks again, Jim. You want to hear us talk about on a future show. One way is to let us know in our subreddit. You can do it on Discord too, but our subreddit's a cool place. Submit stories and vote on others at dailytechnewshow.reddit.com. A significant number of people are still looking for Twitter... Twitter. Might as well call it that at this point. Twitter alternatives. We don't need to go into the house on the wise because if you're looking to leave Twitter, you've got a good reason or your own reason anyway. It just happens to be what's happening right now. Mastodon user count at bitcoinhackers.org estimates more than 50,000 people per day have been signing up for a Mastodon server. There are almost 8 million accounts on Mastodon now. Huge uptick in a short amount of time. Another place people are flocking to is Hive Social. That is an app that you can use on Android and iOS. Hive was launched back in October 2019 by Riluka Pop, who taught herself Swift that summer before heading into her first term in college. It started with some personal loans by Riluka and then a designer who's considered sort of a co-founder was brought on. A developer was the third employee brought on in May 2021 and they didn't receive angel investment until October 2021. And right now, Hive Social has three employees. They are thinking of bringing on a fourth to help achieve the scale. Three, three employees. Twitter still has thousands even after its cutbacks. Hive also just passed 1.5 million users. Yeah, Wired's Megan Farakmanesh wrote up a story on Hive and how it's handling this sudden influx. When you have that few employees, you think how could you possibly scale, right? So many companies need thousands of employees to do this. Riluka told Wired she is making it a happier place for people, a safe place for users to express how they feel, a safe place for them to post content. Hive has some unique features along those lines like being able to add a song to your user page, change your profile colors. There's some customization there. It also lets you choose who can comment on your post, hide specific words, hide types of content you don't want to see, you don't want to engage with. An algorithm filters out certain content before it makes it to the Discover page as well and the team is looking into third-party help to do that even better. So think about all this stuff we're talking about. There's a lot of talk about alternate platforms. None of those alternate platforms have reached Twitter's scale of hundreds of millions of monthly active users, maybe tumblers closest. Twitter is considered small for a social network.  Now, one big gating factor for new social networks to compete with the Facebooks and Instagrams and TikToks of the world has been that it's hard to get users to try it because your friends aren't there. Unless your friends there, you're not going to go there and if you don't go there, then your other friends aren't going to go there and it's a vicious circle. The drama around Twitter has changed those conditions giving these alternative platforms an opportunity because, well, a lot of times your friends are going there. In fact, I asked people on Hive why they ended up there and one person said, my friend told me to follow them here so I went there. Another gating factor is how good those platforms are. It's not just about design and features, it's about performance and, of course, the ever-controversial topic of community moderation. How well do they do that? And those things get harder the more popular a platform gets. So keep these things in mind. If Twitter is expected to fall apart because it only has a few thousand employees, people have said the sky is falling because they laid off so many people and they may be right, how can Hive make it with four? Even if they expand to four. Even if they expand, they can't expand to thousand overnight. If Twitter was considered too small to make it with only 300 million monthly active users, it is 8 million even close to enough for Mastodon to have critical mass. Mastodon doesn't have the profit motive, Twitter has, but you still need enough people on there to make it interesting and make it be worthwhile to be cited and all of those things. I wonder, Scott, if what we're, when we're talking about a replacement for Twitter, if that's the wrong way to talk about this. Yeah, I've been thinking about that a lot. A replacement for Twitter, I mean, everybody's, you know, on different ends of the drama around Twitter.  I'm not sure what everybody's looking for is actually a replacement for Twitter. I think what they're looking for is a place where they can feel the fun and excitement again. And I'm not even sure that that, the feeling of that lacking right now has that much to do with the current goings on to Twitter. I think it has to do with, it's been a long time. And Twitter was already kind of a toxic place and wasn't as fun as it was in those early days when we were telling each other what we had for lunch. And it's become much more than that. And I'm not saying that there's not a place for that. Something like that should exist, but me as a user, I love the idea of hive social having three people. It being a passion project, people from an interesting point in their life coming up with a piece of software that everybody glommed on to for what reasons. Hard to say, but it's a little more artsy over there. It's got a little Instagram hooks to it. Some of it does. When you post photos, it takes care to like say, how do you want to crop this? How do you want to do this? What do you want to do here? I think that maybe we're just all hungry for that feeling again of those early days of Twitter or the early days of Facebook or whatever you're thinking of. I think there's a desire for that because what Twitter is today is fine, but it's not what it used to be. And so I think there's a lot of people that are going, well, this is it. This is the reason why I finally have motivation to get off here and go somewhere else for a while. Most people I know are doing all of it together at once. That's what I'm doing. I'm still on Twitter and if Twitter goes away, I'll be there till the ship goes down, but I'll have all these other places all ready to go and I'm always got my ear to the ground if something news comes. And so I have a feeling you see a lot of that. I feel like the way that you describe Twitter and in the early days when it was kind of a nerdy place where people did say like, what are you doing right now? And then you would say, this is what I'm doing right now. That is sort of how we're describing some of these Twitter alternatives. When Twitter first launched, well, they had more than three employees, but they didn't have, it wasn't the same company. It felt like kind of a sort of niche place that some people went to, but lots of people were going to lots of other places.  I think that there's a lot of folks saying, it's going to get so complicated, everything's going to be fragmented. I'm going to have to follow Tom Merritt talking about this or that over here. Scott Johnson talking about this or that over on some other social network. How do I keep them all straight? But that's kind of how it used to be. Yeah, if anything, there seems like there's a swing back to forum culture in a weird way with Discord. Discord really is just kind of a fancy bit of forming. Things like Substack, it's personal blogging, but in a slightly different way, different delivery methods, but at the same time, it's not that different. So there is like, I feel like the whole car is like turning back to the early hours and say, you know, some of that was all right. We have better tech now. We have better distribution now. We can do cooler things now. But the core was all right. So let's go back to that core. Yeah. Nice plug for your show core. No, I'm kidding. I think we're onto something here. I think this is a natural cycle. And it's tempting when you're in the middle of a natural cycle to attribute it to a thing that's happening. In this case, Elon Musk buying Twitter. But when you back out, something like that may have been bound to happen anyway. And if you look at it from the, you know, the 30,000 foot view, this may just be how this particular swing back to different stuff works, right? We are going back into a cycle that has people trying out a lot of different things and freaking Yahoo still around, right? So Twitter's probably not going to die. It's probably not going to go anywhere. But this is in the, you know, zooming back into the close perspective, causing a lot of people to try stuff. They wouldn't have tried otherwise for whatever the reason they're trying it. That's going to bring other people like me and Scott, who are like, well, we're still on Twitter, but let's try the mastodon. Let's try hive. Let's try posts. You know, let's, let's try all this stuff. I was having a conversation with Molly Wood who was like, I'm so frustrated. I'm starting a sub stack. And I was like, well, that's not really an alternative for Twitter. But she's like, yeah, but a lot of the things I want to say there, I can say better on sub stack, which is true because it's a different format, right?  I am going to try that thing that before it was like, well, but everybody's here. So it's kind of scary to try a new thing. It's kind of forcing us out of our comfort zones. And I think we end up with multiple new things. Not all of them are going to stick around, but some of them are going to get momentum and some of them aren't way too early to tell which ones are which, but it doesn't have to be a replacement for Twitter. Yeah.  And why do you want to have all your stuff in one place? I mean, this is the internet. We're just branching back out to like, oh yeah, right. We don't have to be in one place all the time. Let's go to all the places. Yeah. Many places. I mean, I've got the time. Sure. All the time. What are you too busy? You know, let's try them all. Exactly. You want to keep track of one feed? Keep track of 500. Okay. Way more fun. No. All right. Let's take a quick look at the mail bag before we get out of here. Yeah. So yesterday we were talking about Apple and YouTube and Spotify's year end wrap ups of all of our listening habits. And Justin, the techie teacher in Texas writes, pocket cast did one too. And you, you were show was at the top of mine. Thank you for another great year. Yeah. Justin added a screenshot and I mean, not that he was lying or anything, but it was nice to see DTNS top podcast. Listen to him. I bet it's not my own personal pocket cast top podcast that I've never listened back to our own show, but I'm waiting on mine. I'm waiting on my pocket cast top podcast to find out what they are. That's really cool. And thank you for letting us know. Justin, appreciate that. Indeed. Thanks to everybody who writes in feedback at dailytechnewshow.com. Keep those emails coming. We love to read them. I love it over a T first thing in the morning. Thanks to also Scott Johnson for being with us. Whether or not you drink tea or not, Scott has all the things for you.  What's been going on? There is a lot going on. Instead of giving you ready anything specific, I'd just say go check the buffet out. If you go to frogpants.com and click on the podcast link or any of the art links or a million other links on the page, you will find something that you'll like. And I would recommend it. So if you're interested in a whole litany of ideas and cool stuff and all the social accounts I'm now signed up for, you can find them at frogpants.com right now. I love content buffet. Yep. But without the salmonella. Yeah. And no sneeze guards or any of that. You'll be fine. Yeah, you don't need it. Special thanks to Clayton Brookert, who is one of our top lifetime supporters for DTNS.  And Clayton, today's your day. Thank you for all the years of support. Pile on in, everybody. Be like Clayton, patreon.com. Speaking of patrons, stick around for our extended show, Good Day Internet. What will we talk about? No, no yet. It hasn't started yet. Starts right after DTNS though, which is live Monday through Friday at 4 p.m. Eastern 2100 UTC. You can find out more at dailytechnewshow.com slash live and you can join us live. If you so desire, we'd love to have you. We'll be back tomorrow with Justin Robert Young joining us. Talk to you then.


What's going on everybody got Kyle and Shawn here relating sports cards, and we are ripping two boxes of Bowman chrome you breakers delight and this is for cure and see Good luck here, and let's see what we got Breakers delights. I do feel delighted to be breaking this Good luck my man. It's our early risers JJ McCarthy Nick singleton on the refractor LT overton Badger McClane or McMillan and Audrick Estime the big uh Running back out of Notre Dame, and we have an orange shock nice one there Braylon Allen to 25 running back out of Wisconsin Braylon Allen orange to 25 We had to 199 that one's gonna be jam griffin to 199 on the aqua To 399 Kayla McDowell on the purple mini diamond and 399 is Chandler Morris QB for TCU on the true purple Now for our two autos we had a 499 first Jerry and Dickey First auto for Oregon and a base autos Elijah Badger Out of Arizona State the Sun Devil on the base auto all righty. Mr. Kieran. There's one box down box number two Yes, you select Rick it on YouTube. I don't have time tonight though. It'll rip tomorrow If you do want to order one it would rip tomorrow. I don't have time tonight We got a good bit of orders in the queue already But it would definitely rip tomorrow night if you do want to get something ordered. There's an early risers K Clubnik Yes, if you ever do rip it for rip it on YouTube, it'll be automatically added to our queue So the next time we do rip it will be uh, we'll be ripping for you If you ever do want to order one the first Richard Reese got Brock Bowers Joe Milton Donaldson, there's Josh Williams and a shock. Josh will Josh Williams first Richard Reese Sam is in tomorrow. He's gonna be in the morning over on fanatics live Yeah, Sam's gonna be in the morning on fanatics live starting at 10 a.m. Blake shape into 399 Red on the first bomb is gonna be Joe Alts. Nice one there at a Notre Dame. That's two out of five That's one of the top offensive line picks for this year in the draft nice one there Joe alt the tackle out of Notre Dame Two out of five. I'll be back tomorrow night Jacob. I'm a Mechag Buka to 150 And our autos we got a base auto J. J. McCarthy this one there for Michigan and a 499 is his receiver Roman Wilson First refractor out of 499 couple of Wolverines there on the autos Righty there that'll do it for you. Mr. Kiran two boxes of bowmen chrome you breakers the light appreciate you My friend as always we'll get these right out to you


Okay thank you. So, a small background. Why would you have the idea of trying to do that? So the situation I was faced with was that we had collocation space with very limited reckon it's available. We had a rooted IP space, so not just on the, not that the IPs were not just on the Wheelan, but they had to be rooted. We have a multi-machine virtualization cluster, in this case with Proxmox, which works quite well, but so we needed some infrastructure to root our internet traffic. Ideally, high availability is quite nice, not only for being available, but also for, the thing is, I had to build that for, in this case, the Free Software Foundation Europe, and the thing is, when I'm not being paid, I usually have to do the work whenever I have time, so being able to do things like updates without downtime does have its advantages, or even also if it's a bit resilient, if something breaks, and then I might not have to jump immediately, but maybe being able to do it in the evening is also quite a useful thing. So the basic concept I came up with was, well, let's just have two redundant routing VMs. Using for the routing, having floating IPs for the HA, we do have some minimal firewalling on the routing VMs. It's not so much for the real services, because the people who run the services on the VMs do their own firewalling. It's just that we have some central firewalling so that people don't by accident expose things like NFS to the internet, and yes, that has happened, or also I really don't want to have the management interface of the virtualization cluster on the internet, because why should we? Yes, it's technically possible, but why should we do it? And then we have some small problem that if you don't pay nowadays, you don't really get unlimited IP addresses, especially IPv4. I don't know why people seem to want to have money for that stuff nowadays. And so we had to do, we had to have a concept on how can we work with less IP addresses. So in our case, we decided to use a reverse proxy, in this case, HA proxy, to be able to make the stuff available on IPv4, and the VMs, most of them only have native IPv6 connection. So then, yeah, we had to select the stack. We ended up at the moment with carp for the floating IPs. We use for the minimal firewalling part and something that will come up later, we use PF. We currently run free BSD. I'm also thinking about testing it with open BSD as well. I just didn't have the time, because as always, once the concept was finished, somebody wanted to put it into production. Some of you might have had this problem before.  I mean, it's more or less nothing special, really, but it had to be integrated in some way. So what's the advantage and what's the disadvantages of doing it in VMs? So normally, I tend to run the network infrastructure on physical machines. The problem with the VMs is that on the one hand, you're already depending on the cluster to work for the network to function. So if your cluster breaks, it can get complicated on how to fix the cluster if you don't really have access to the network. That's a bit of an annoying thing. It's also how to best put it. Depending on how much bandwidth you have, you sometimes also tend to have a bit of a performance bottleneck. That's a bit harder to debug if you have a virtual machine. So, but on the other hand, what's the advantages and why did we end up with the VMs? So the one thing is, while running an NGO, it's cost because, well, I mean, if you already have the virtualization cluster, you don't need extra hardware, which is also nice in so far as you don't have to maintain the hardware. It's less stuff that could break physically. And what was also an important thing in this case is you don't need the extra REC space for physical hardware. So how did we go with that? So at some point, I started testing and I immediately ran into problems. So first, I mean, I have done 3PSD firewalls before and usually I didn't really run into performance bottlenecks with somewhat modern hardware. But I had this interesting problem where, in some situations, I could only get about, what was it, I think, like 30 kilobits or something over the connection, which is somewhat less than the gigabit-efinite interface that we have as a nutlink. There were also some strange things happening where, depending on if the firewall machine was on the same as the virtual machine actually creating the traffic that made major differences in performance. And the other, and with some debugging, we found out that we had major packet loss problems and some invalid packets going out that were dropped. So, well, as you do, you have to start debugging stuff. And so the most of the debugging so far has been done on KVM for the virtualization and 3PSD as a guest. I'm currently running two production clusters with that and I'm running a test system on my own hardware, but there it's a bit different because I only have one physical machine available. The interesting part is that the problems were similar, so I had this kind of similar experience, but it was a bit different. So, one of the interesting things I discovered that for one reason or another, the Virgilio driver has flags for disabling hardware offloading. I'm not sure which, I haven't found out yet what exactly they mean with hardware because it's a virtual interface on a virtual bridge. So, but it made major differences in the performance. I had, on one of the clusters, I actually had to disable the hardware offloading features on the I can also give you the slides afterwards that's probably better quality than taking photos of it. So, on one of the clusters, I really had to disable all of the hardware offloading, so definitely the bugs in the physical hardware played part of it. On the other one, not so much. And then one of the other findings that we found out while testing, which I didn't expect, was that some of this cloud native DevOps stuff is not yet IPv6 capable. I didn't realize that. So, talking to GitHub, okay, well, they don't seem to have IPv6. I don't know why. The same was at least at the time of testing Docker Hub. I think they might have IPv6 by now. I also found out that the strange Docker stuff people for one reason or another want to use seems to have still problems with IPv6 only networking. I can't really understand why. So, I started to have to say, well, what can I do to further debug it? I'm currently testing with different hardware a bit to try to differentiate what's the problem of the hardware, what's the problem of the virtualization, and what might or might not be a bug in the guest driver, because all of them can be involved here. And the other thing is, well, what I also have to further debug where the problem actually originates is that if I do live migration of the routing VM, the car gets kind of confused and kills all the network. And then I have to access the remote access console of the physical host and fix that. So, some fixes that I found that improved situation quite a bit was, interestingly, disabling, offloading features in the VM. Then, now, at least, then some of the big problems were disappearing, because from what I've seen is that the free PSD, all the traffic itself that originated on the firewall, that was fine. But most of the traffic that just passed through the router had invalid jacksums and was therefore dropped somewhere on the way. And on the host, I also had to disable a lot of the hardware offload features, as I mentioned previously in the thing. So, another important part is how to manage this stuff. Because, well, I mean, it's well and nice if you build it by hand, then you have your two routing VMs firewalls. It would be ideal if the configuration is somewhat related, because, otherwise, you will just have chaos and also how to handle updates. So, in my case, I decided to script it with Ansible, because I'm relatively familiar with it. And one of the nice, two of the nice things on how to solve the problem and what happens if I destroy my routing because of some upgrade, then one of the nice features is boot environment. So, I can have a relatively simple fallback, even if I can't access the console. And the other thing is switching to virtual console helps, because then I can, even from the IPMI interface, I can access the VM. On how to make sure that configs are really identical, I had to drill that into other people who also have admin access to the machines that, no, you're not going to manually change the firewall config on one of the nodes. Thank you. Because that can lead to some interesting problems in debugging. I'm still, I mean, it is in production and it works. I still have some things that I really want to try. One of the things that I really want to try is other combinations of hypervisors and guests. So, I'm experimenting a bit with beehive, if that behaves differently. On the one hand, because I'm quite interested to migrate some of the stuff to beehive, at least my personal stuff, but also because it would help me to differentiate a bit on what problems originate in the guest, what problems are originating in the virtualization. And I also want to do more comparison tests using OpenPSD. On the one hand, yes, there are some nice features that PF in FreePSD currently does not have. There are also probably some performance differences we will have to see, but also I really like to have multiple options and see what's the difference and really test it. The other thing that I'm still a bit of in the process, unfortunately, that takes longer for me than I would have appreciated is actually I do want to document and publish the work so that other people can see what can be done and maybe, I mean, directly use, well, if it's useful for people, of course, but also to have something to compare against if you run into similar problems. It's always nice to see what have other people done, where are problems, how can you solve them. And the other thing that I really want to do is I really want to try to switch the failover to BGP away from Carp. It has, I mean, not that Carp is necessarily bad, it's just that I had some interesting interactions with the data center when they, even for the explicitly told me that I could use certain IDs, then they used them themselves and then you have a bit of a chaos. Yeah, communication is always hard. Yeah, so that's the basis, so that's the basics. Are there any questions? Ah, yeah, good question. So I do use OPN Sense in production, yes. I run it both at home, I run it at work, I also run the HA cluster. It really works well, I like it. It's just that in my experience using it in the data center was a bit of a glitch. So the problem was a bit that I had to, in some situations, had to work more or less against it, because the basic concepts were not really what I needed. So that's the reason why I decided to do it by hand. And I mean, yes, the thing also does firewalling. On the other hand, my firewall config is like five rows of BF com, so it's not really the complex part of it. Also, yeah, what I forgot, at some point I now had to implement, I had now had to implement IPv4 nut because of the stuff that I wrote that's unfortunately not IPv6 capable, so I now have to run nut in the data center. Yes, for the incoming connections, yes, the problem is not for the incoming connections. We do use HA proxy for the incoming connections. Mostly with proxy protocol and then use the TLS termination on the machines themselves, because it makes it a bit easier to deploy stuff, because we have the thing is that the admin team is a bit distributed, so we have people who are responsible for a specific service. And if the TLS termination is with them, we basically don't have to touch it. We just have to say, yes, this host name, this IP, thank you. And so we have a central HA proxy that runs that mostly does redirect to HTTPS and otherwise as an IProxying of the encrypted TCP connection and just go that way, please, thank you. There are some hacks that we have, because we needed to redirect a few things. And I'm currently in the process of also having an IMAP server behind the HA proxy because of reasons that, yeah. Unfortunately, I couldn't tell the people to please just use IPv6. Yeah. Please. Okay. Okay. I was quite astonished because the thing is we use word error drivers because I would have expected some, I mean, yes, that the Intel driver has some offloading features that might or might not do strange things in the virtual machine. I expect that to some degree, but for the word error, it's like, why, what's going on? Yes. So it seems that, just repeating the question for the recording, it seems that also not seems to be problematic sometimes with the offloading. I really want to get more into it so that I can really document it. So where are exactly our problems so that people can find that and not have to find it the hard way because while I enjoy looking at things and finding out how they work, it's sometimes annoying if you're in a hurry. Let's put it mildly. Any other questions? Okay. Yes. Since there are currently no questions, a few things that I might, that I only brushed by. So I mentioned that the problem with carp. So the thing is, some people, some people overlook it sometimes. So the problem is that a carp and VRP use the same protocol ID. And so VRP is used by some data centers and some providers. Some also say, well, we only do BGP for failover. The problem is that the problem I ran into was that we told them, yes, we're going to use that. And they told us, yes, but it's fine. But please don't use these IDs so that we don't have a collision. And then they seem to have changed the config on their side without notifying us and that created some chaos. Yes? Yeah, I will see. I mean, the thing is, in general, I would really want to look into the BGP is also that I'm also probably have to run a similar setup in a data center where they say we are only going to do BGP. And so far, I've seldomly encountered a data center where they say, well, we won't do BGP with you. And so it seems to be a bit more of a portable solution to me that that's the reason why I also want to go in this direction. And I mean, for the relatively simple use case, BGP is not that complicated. I mean, it's not trivial, but it's not that complicated. Any last questions? Yes, please. Well, that's probably a bit besides the point for the networking part. What we run is Zef, which is quite well integrated in KVM and also well integrated in the Proxmox user interface. So it's relatively simple. Yes, you still have to know what you're doing because otherwise you will shoot yourself with the foot. But it works reasonably well and has survived some interesting split brain situations that I ran into because of major fuckups in the power outlets in the data center because I had some interesting situations where one server had only had power on one power supply, the other had only had power on the other power supply, ones which didn't have power at all. Really nice. Okay. If there are no further questions, then I think we will be able to nearly finish on time. Okay. Thank you guys and well, maybe see you in the closing ceremony and otherwise next year.


And if you don't believe in an afterlife, which I don't think you should, this is it. So you want to make the most of this one life that you live right here, right now. And that means, of course, you want to interact with other people because you learn from other people, you benefit from other people, you gain from other people.  You don't want to live in a desert island. You want to benefit from the interaction with the good wherever it can be found. I usually avoid words like dangerous and danger, but since your run did introduce it into the conversation, I will say the following. It may be comes down to a very simple equation.  I think worshiping oneself and one's ability to determine what is good as if they're completely objective and everyone will agree, I think can be quite dangerous. So we've seen a lot of dangers when that comes out of that.


Hi, my name is Gladys and I'm from Bradenton, Florida And I have come to know this ministry through trying to find a deliverance ministry on YouTube And I came across TV Joshua's videos simply because Hungry Generation was posting videos of Profit TV Joshua's services, so I begin to follow TV Joshua's ministry and find found out that Wiseman Harry was coming to Washington State So I decided to attend the revival with Wiseman Harry and that is where I received my deliverance I was the one screaming at Wiseman Harry and telling him to stop Well, not me. The spirit in me was telling Wiseman Harry to stop and afterwards after the Conferent the revival with Wiseman Harry. I began following Hungry Generation on The services online and ever I would watch every Wednesday and I the main Reason why I started following this ministry is because one day while I was watching One of the Wednesday night services. I seen that Brittany Stated that she had a Skype home group. So I since I was watching the Services every Wednesday and I wanted to be part of Hungry Generation, but I was too far away I was fascinated that Brittany had a Skype home group So I messaged Pastor Vlad on Facebook and I asked him if there was any way that I could join one of the home groups And so two days later. I got a text message from Brittany stating that she heard that I wanted to join a Skype home group and that I could join hers so To fast-forward I seen that Hungry Generation was hosting a Kingdom come conference And I decided that since I already feel connected to the ministry I wanted to attend the service simply because back home where I'm from we don't really have these This ministry back where I am So I decided to come to the Kingdom come conference and the funny thing is I remember praying and asking God and Asking God that I wanted to get baptized but more specifically that I wanted to get baptized At Hungry Generation and I messaged Pastor Vlad and I asked Pastor Vlad if he could Baptize me during the conference and I told Pastor Vlad as a pastor Vlad. I understand that you only do Baptisms during the last week of the month during miracle catch but I was wondering if you could make an exception and baptize me during the conference and Here I am now getting baptized. So this is my Public declaration of my inward confession that one life for Christ is all I live. I live for Christ and I die for Christ Come on God is good a man church Lattice do you believe in Jesus Christ as God's son and your personal Lord and Savior? Yes Do you promise to follow him with good and clear conscience for the rest of your life? Yes Based on your faith confession and your commitment will baptize you in the name of the Father son and the Holy Spirit