October 4th meeting here in the John Hogan meeting room it's the Moortown Select Board call a meeting to order so we'll start with the agenda six o'clock we've got general public comments we have two gentlemen in tonight or if they would like to start guys I don't know who was here first or if you guys are here for public comment sir well if you would like to make a general public comment what's your you're welcome to be here just to be here but is there any purpose I've had a survey done and it's been five years since the town took 20 acres from me and gave it to someone else I want to know how all of that happens the town took 20 acres from you can you share a little bit more about this I got a tax bill in 17 and I went from 43 acres down to 29 prior to that when I bought the property they said you I have my deed says 50 acres they said you only have the realtor said you only have 43 acres so I came to the town here and asked what what that word my seven acres go they don't nobody know anything and so then they took 16 more well then I'm a little excited now because now there's 20 acres they've given it to my neighbor and so I go down and said you know what the heck is it so would you say they was it the Lister's that made this change the girl here of Brown Cheryl Brown yeah she says the tax they made a new tax map and the guy comes and he just makes marks on there and that's and then they go by that and I know that is not true and that was in 2017 you say I believe that's right 16 and I had 43 acres at that time since I've had the survey done I have 49.7 acres but the aggregation and money that it has cost me I want to know why I had to go through all this so you had 49.7 acres is what the survey showed now is that survey after this happened? After they took that land right? I came down and I said what's going on put it back like it was and she said you have to have a survey I said well you didn't have one and nobody was surveying the area at the time there was nothing going on I want to know how we got to this point I mean now that she told me today well tomorrow we'll have this result and I'll revise your bill and send it to you. Right so we have for tonight on errors and emissions we have a change to kind of what you said we're going from 29 acres of prior 29 acres to 49.7 acres and that's a new survey that was given to the town or here in April actually should have been done by the Listers prior to submitting the list so we will correct that and then what we can do is I can we can go back and find out in 2017 why it was changed I can't type I don't do that stuff but I'm willing to go back and try to find out for you I know we were having our tax maps updated that's correct yeah so I imagine it had something to do with that but let's ask them the people who were doing it why was it changed they're going to receive the property was running around with a GPS saying that my property was his now I don't know when the tax people come to make a new map and they they don't have anything until somebody gives them direction right now who gave you the direction and what was it all right we'll look into it and find out where the change came from and we'll I feel that I'm out five years I mean I can't sell my property I can't there's all kinds of things that I can't do with it when it's not correct and that I know it's not correct and now you know it's not correct so I like to get to the bottom of it it costs me a lot of money it's cost me tremendous aggravation and so on as I mentioned we will look at it will contact the people who were working on the tax tax maps and find out why it was changed there were a number of people parcels changed in town for for various reasons but we'll find out and get an explanation for you yeah okay so you're going to go ahead and send me a revised bill yeah so tonight the after and I wonder why a revised bill seems how the last five years it was it was that and now that I'm better than six months and into it well we're doing the best we can with the changes that we had you brought the map in we're doing that for you so you're being credited with more acreage so yes yes you do have to pay for it but who's been paying for up until now probably where we're ever had been right and that's what that's the other thing that well just when most went out when all the new tax maps went out you were given a letter talking about the changes and there was opportunity to come in and greet those changes well they're sent out so you may or may not have got it or you may have taken it for another piece of junk mail which often people do but there was an opportunity for you certainly in the last five years since that change to come in every year and grieve that every year when I came in when I paid what they tell me that I owe now I always say this is no I'm not saying that you guys are crap by paying this bill I'm only paying the bills so that I don't get penalized for not paying my taxes well that point is when you should have been instructed or made a grievance at that point as soon as you learn that you didn't the acreage wasn't correct would be the best time I did come as a matter of fact did you file any papers she had stood up and understanding there and she said if you got trouble with your neighbors why don't you take it up with your neighbors I was saying when you take my property and you give it to somebody else I think she should have been concerned with that that she would have tried herself well I'm sorry and as I said we were looking to make a correction tonight and then we can look into when the tax maps were updated why yours was changed that's all I can tell you well it will start that process tomorrow it shouldn't be too long you know within a couple of weeks yes we will we'll make sure that's out within the next couple of days say again yes you will it's a 49.7 acres and you did what was everything that you did was correct and having it resurveyed and so on so it was good it was good that you did that right I had no choice what else can I do so I was forced into that situation right I really feel bad about the way it all went down well we feel badly for everybody who did have issues you know and as Tom said we'll definitely correct yours as we did to the others I believe myself that the neighbor did all of this that he and somebody in here allowed him to talk to the tax people and then they did what he said he never had to do a survey he collected my property he never did a survey said he wasn't going to do one and said only that he owned my land I mean I did do the right thing because the way that I wanted to handle it was not the way I had to I mean how was that well I'm glad you handled it this way that was well done thank you for bringing the survey and we'll get back to you we'll look into it and try to figure out what happened there was to hatch thank you can I ask a question yes sir what's your name Stephen my brother yep I used to be in the Australian office I'm very familiar with this you do not change a tax map period you don't change tax maps unless you've got surveys to go with them otherwise you don't change again the tax maps you can't do that either you just draw pictures on your map and say that's the tax map is this not that's not the way to do it well we had the tax maps updated by an outside firm and there was this you know I don't know what to tell you that's I don't know the exact all the changes and how they made changes right now they spent a couple years doing it and it's something that's done in every town so it does does happen tax maps are updated tax maps are updated well not to the extent that it happened here it was incredible how many people lost land or game land alright well I'm not going to debate that with you tonight is there any other comments you have nothing to say thank you Travis what do you have for us I have two things I'd be further agreed that Tom yeah we noticed that a plane created hasn't located in there yep thank you thank you the planning commission has been posted in a minute since July 2001 so this July this July there hasn't been any man posted from that point on alright so you don't know what they've had for meetings have there I can check into it and certainly get that fixed alright and I have another concern to deal with yesterday there was two dirt bikes harassing on moretown mountain road with an ATV and a white Toyota pickup truck following them they were also down here in the town riding on the sidewalks that might have still and did you call the police Travis well that's also what I'm here to say is I hope anybody in the community will also call a middle sex barracks and if they have any other information please please let the middle sex barracks know about any event that did happen I almost hit them head on and they're on my side of the road meeting they used to say they were harassing what do you mean by that they were going extremely fast on moretown mountain road on the opposite side of the road and then turn around coming back and then turn around again going back just in front of your place or no no just all the whole entire road they stopped down here I had somebody that saw them down here at moretown store and then they wrote down the sidewalks down here that they also saw them did no one got any plate numbers or anything like that there's no plates on ATVs I know this is a lot of my just ATVs in your place I don't know if they're truck sort of with them it definitely seemed like but I can't say that for sure did they go all the way up to the moretown gap they went ahead and walked down the rolling line all the way over here because I saw the tracks the corner of howl's road and my road yeah I would again we're not a police agency here but I appreciate you coming forward and just call the state police as soon as you know email them like the lieutenant says over there the more you call them the more I have to get someone to come in another incident where ATVs allowed on the roads may not be the appropriate thing to do but that's just a call yep no that's yep that's it Travis alright Miss did you have comment on them okay I'm sorry I can't alright so let's go ahead and move on to our agenda items here and there's no more let me just make sure I don't check to make sure we don't have someone actually trying to get in here so if I had this up and people see that there's someone in the waiting room up here someone in the waiting room oh yeah so I won't leave that open because I don't look down enough and uh Dylan how are you I just want to see if he's here for public comment he's muted uh Mr. Frazier oh I'm sorry that's okay Miss Frazier Miss Frazier I'm sorry I'm just going to turn the volume down here are you here for um general public comment I'm right through the reporter to listen oh okay that's fine just wanted to make sure you didn't have any questions alright and you can hear and see okay yes thank you very good thanks and I will hope you all I'm just going to mute everyone alright very good so we'll go ahead and move on to errors and emissions tonight we have three so I'll go over them kind of explain them quick and then let's take a vote on them the first one is uh Barbara Combe there was a correction to change from 433,600 uh it's decreasing by 18,300 to 415,300 and corrected per survey on the map slide 39 from 166 acres to 139 acres so that's our first correction the second correction uh would be Kelvin Lee Ward in Sharon Town a change from 491,500 to 513,200 uh difference of 21,700 dollars increase uh and there was a change from 2 to 3.2 acres uh and that was on slide 9 the famous Hatch was in earlier tonight his change from 182,100 to 203,800 a change of 21,700 uh increase and as we discussed earlier that was corrected per survey from 29 acres to 49.7 acres is there a motion I'll make a motion that we approve those seconds any further discussion on the uh eras of emissions it's not all in favor vote aye aye alright Sasha so we can make sure those corrected bills get out so as soon as possible that would be nice thank you and um Emily why don't you roll up as close as you feel comfortable and you I know you had some budget or a budget question and I think it was on the heating that you so I'm sure you can get personally aware that the heating has costs have gone up um so that's the one area of the library budget that we are most concerned about is that um we are over from this year and so we're planning for next year and um when we were looking at that and talking to Sherilyn about it as well noticing that there are two line items for heating the town hall one being from the library budget and the other in the town hall budget so we are wondering if it made sense just to combine those to one line item for heating the town hall um and then going from there looking at how much more to add in to actually cover the cost of heating did you have um I think it's probably a good idea did you have an idea of what you were looking at or thinking of um so I have this and this helps to see the numbers um yeah I probably have it in front of me here okay that the numbers combined between the two is uh 2,500 but that according to this year's cost of heating won't cover it for next year's if costs continue to be the same so I was thinking just 3,500 but why don't I think you have a good idea there why don't we first we'll try to figure out based on what um our contract is with Gillespie's to how much we're paying how much it's going up and then we can figure out an equitable split between the two and figure it out really doesn't to me I don't really care if it's from the same pocket you know we just whether we want to what I would like to just have an accurate so we know if you're spending 50% of the time in there you know we allocate 50% of the the heating to that or if it's just so we have an idea in case things down the road we think well what does it cost for us to heat with just the library or things like that so more to figure out to get it as accurate as we can to you know the building's using how much it costs so we can forecast but we can so we can do with that and then we'll work with you on that and just figure out you know what it is and then try to the best uh algorithm to get it accurate for for the next project yeah okay that's really good how's everything else with the library stuff going as far as you're everything's going really well um but we did lose our assistant librarian she has moved on to a new career um and that's the other sticking points to be able to fill that position especially in the job market right now finding anyone to fill that so that's for the only other struggle we can have right now yeah I think that's the pain of what everyone is feeling exactly um I don't know does any of the libraries around have anyone that's working part-time that might be you know maybe the licksfield library and share some talent like that yeah I don't know that might be an idea because you know we've got um even reach out as far as Montpelier you know you never know you might have someone that's say hello there for 20 hours a week you know I'm doing it here and just put it off there nothing venturing nothing gained and buried because that's not bad yeah just in this whole little Washington area it would be nice it would be nice to get someone a little experience and change some ideas of things that we guys are doing cause you're doing some really good things over there but yeah everything else is going great considering the situation we all find ourselves in yeah it's good well good thank you for coming alright so we're going to go ahead and move on um our next agenda item is opening bids for the Fletcher Road bridge in which you've received none um um Winters that said that the RFP wasn't detailed enough and they didn't want to go by inspection so I don't know if that has any impact on it their construction is just too busy right now otherwise they would and blown Cody just didn't answer usually blown Cody yeah maybe they're slain alright we'll have to have maybe Ray take a look at it I know he had worked on that RFP before but it was right at the end I know Martin had kind of punted with it to him and um so maybe we should re-look at it and it needs to be a little more detailed obviously it sounds like uh the scope of work wasn't clearly defined yeah so uh um second time we have more detail they'll bid again I think and we can reach up to blowing Cody again and find out what the problem is there they in fact they just did a project course actually we're new Travis's place they were doing that bridge over there what was that? Pops room well maybe it'll be a spring about a spring now there'll be two places the spring or summer or something yeah right now it's not a busy but if they knew it was does that um granted they have to be done they didn't have to be done this year did it I don't know uh I don't believe I think that one we had a couple years on but we were just based on the condition of the bridge we wanted to get it as done as soon as possible I think for time wise we can probably do that um well we have the next thing up is Chuck let's see if I were that's at 645 so we've got 15 minutes before he gets here um now we go move down to reports, communications Sasha what do you have for some reports um there is a percut in that report also want to make sure that the errors and emissions gets the PTO is asking about trick or treating does anybody have any input on that they were kind of leaning towards not treating this year having input trick or treating trick or treating I would say no unfortunately on my side of things I would say yes I would have to agree with you I think we can I think it's you know this is a good thing to talk about I mean it's outside I guess my comments would be people had their station outside I think there's enough social distancing we've asked do we have have you know unvaccinated wear masks or kids wear masks and whatever the recommendations would be how that would fly do we I mean does the CDC have any recommendations you know like what they're doing in the school the kids are wearing masks and they wear masks outside just do the same thing right yeah what the government has the school the school is wearing masks yeah I think that would be you know and that seems to be working here I don't know it's we've got to move on with life too you know I understand it's a real it's a very fine line between safety and people's health and moving on so I mean I don't want to be cavalier when I say that or I'm not being but I think it's good that we talk about this and try to figure out if we're going to do this let's do it the best and safest way for people to do it and Don I think your recommendations as far as what are they doing at the school now that would make sense to me they're you know they've been here during the day and they're parading out with their masks and doing things so Sasha you know we're not going to vote on anything but if consensus it seems that if people if they're following the rules of what's going on in the school we don't object to it is that alright to say I'll take it back alright Grinch same rules as they have in school you have a sign right here what's that it's on right there or it doesn't matter to me I'll sign I'll sign will you say it Don did you make it on the phone he said the Grinch and I said that's a different hollow alright what about Sasha remind everybody that ballots for the November 2nd vote are available alright so are you we're not sending out any kind of ballots obviously we've had calls to send them out so anyone that wants a ballot request them and we will send them out anyone here tonight want a ballot if you want Travis you want a ballot you can get it tonight Chuck you can get your ballots tonight it's for the bond vote very important I think for people to make sure they're do we let people know that with the posting of the ballots I think maybe that might be a good thing to put out on the front porch form tomorrow just let them know if they would like to request a ballot we're not sending them out only upon request you can still I wonder maybe at Lisa I forgot who's our other board members Lisa Mason Kristen I wonder if they'll maybe know as we get a little closer to the vote maybe they could post something as well explaining to people why it's important to vote or something hopefully they will maybe we if you want to mention Lisa yeah she's that would be good and okay what else Sasha Robert Turner is going to be meeting with Martin on Thursday and then he's going to come here and meet Sherilyn and I so hopefully we can get that engaged alright I've had a few interactions with Mike Tarrant on the that legal trail that we want to get wrapped up by the end of the year okay what legal trail that might be watches well there's no such thing as water well the legal trail that yes thank you and I need to have somebody be a designated person for the DocuSign for the Efficiency Vermont with the column how would John be that I'll have him email that to you tomorrow so we can get that phone okay I hope I haven't had service today alright but if it comes tomorrow and there's no service Don do you mind being the DocuSign server sure I guess so it's a privilege so Mike I'm excited to see you get that done that's all I'm looking for after I sign it I can let the electrician know so we can get up once it's signed the electrician I read that but I can send him an email telling him to proceed as soon as that's done yes yes you are he's been anointed to I didn't know if it had to come from the chair we're all good with that as long as we're all on the same page okay I'll just check the last thing I have is I left it in front of everybody the Northern Basement Systems they'll be finally got back to me and a huge commercial dehumidifier it's got a filter in it it's a carbon filter that will take the smell out and it will pour out all the moisture like in the organic material like in the walls and the door to the utility room will have to be a Hoover door that's the only thing we need to do an invitation to have and a response from the historical preservation and and this ties into the tax I mean to the present system we have there to the the first step that he said there was an invitation and it would be long so that nothing would have to be done yeah I don't want to it sounds good, I don't know we talked about last time about having an engineer look at stuff and so I'm a little skeptical of running in and jumping into something because I think this is a problem which I've chased for seven, eight years since I've been on the board and I'm not sure this may very well be the grail that we need but I want to make sure Sherilyn Sasha, have we had any other I know we've talked briefly about looking into an engineering firm to yeah maybe we can check in that see what we need to put out for RFP there to get something to look at although I mean like I said I think this might be something that we end up doing but I want to make sure it's yeah plus we got a bunch of this stuff kind of going at the same time the town hall committee and stuff that we identified by town meaning some of it could be on the table for people to discuss or vote on or maybe a phase one or at least doing some of the stuff that has to be done like the water mitigation or spaceman project or the accessibility and such, anyways I'm going to hand these out in a minute nope we'll wait on that Sasha anything else from here alright so now we're back on schedule a little bit behind so Chuck so we'll move on, we're back to see the fiber Chuck how are you well how are you all we're going to have to do that for a little while since we've seen you I think middle of August was the last time I was in so since then we have begun the whole inventory phase of our work you may have seen some of our vehicles out there with our signs on the doors they did the village yeah great they did the village on Friday I think and then Monday Tuesday they were headed out homey farm road and so we are doing a complete inventory of the town not just the underserved portions of the town because that will aid in thinking through the overall design of it, there are going to be times where we have to cross over well-served territory in order to reach other people who are underserved and we do plan to eventually bring service to everyone although we'll be focusing on the underserved first of course so that's that we also have an RFP out for an operator the operator will be the subcontractor who actually runs the network and so we're expecting to announce an operator probably sometime in the next four to six weeks we've had a number of proposals already in on that so when you say that just give everyone idea when you say operator give me an example of an operator sure Well, Needsfield, Champlain Valley Telecom actually acts as an operator for other networks in the state that have branding so for example, up in the Northeast Kingdom they run some network operations up there where it's sold as I think any K Broadband or something something to that effect and so basically they're sort of a invisible silent partner behind the scenes but they do all the heavy lifting so that we don't have to actually purchase any of the equipment or trucks or anything like that and they already have it in due course of doing their business so it gives them a nice little extra shooting for everything as well so that is coming up another example there is EC Fiber their operator is actually called ValiNet and so ValiNet is a behind the scenes company that runs the entire EC Fiber network Thank you, I just wanted to make sure we do that one other interesting tidbit since we last met the town of Wooster actually did vote to send some of their ARPA funds somewhere in the ballpark of I think 55,000 of their ARPA funds so we're getting that which is good, Wooster is one of the towns that's quite a bit worse off than the others in our area so for them that would be a big boom and they saw it as a huge factor Good Questions So last time you were talking about a contractor working with Washington Electric now how does that work? I'm trying to figure out if they own the poles and how does it work? Yeah so as it turns out the vast majority of the homes and businesses that are underserved in our area are on Washington Electric and that has to do with partnerships that existed between Green Mountain Power and Wheatsville Champlain Valley Telecom where they were allowed to attach and where they decided to ultimately stop expanding their network and so Dweck of course operates in the number of towns in our district and we decided to and basically pursue broadband together and there are a number of reasons for this one they felt that we would get access to certain funds that they would not get access to since they are not a broadband provider that said they've been around a long time and can get debt that we just don't have access to because we are obviously much riskier so they're able to get much lower interest debt options and so through this partnership we're working it out such that they're going to actually invest in running the fiber along a lot of their poles and then we say to us and we sort of pool our access to the various different funds together and we're going to make that happen Alright so if I send money to you what's going to that? Some of it, yes Tell me about your relationship with Watesfield telecom we've had a long term relationship with them, they've treated the town very good so why would I not want to give money to them instead just to expand out their network to service? That's a great question to date they've been unwilling to expand their network into the areas that we are going to go into and in fact we are hoping that they'll come in as one of the people running to be our operator, we have a great relationship with them they are of course a trusted local provider and check off all the boxes of what we think would make a great operator for our network that is TBD So the bottom line to your question is that they're just not willing to extend their direct network to the areas we need to go Alright because with you when you talked about it earlier you need to go over some of the good to get to the bad when you go through that good you'll probably take customers there too right? Yes and to achieve our mission we will eventually put a directly competitive service up even to the areas that are already good that will be way way down the road but we will ultimately become a competitor So when you say they don't want to extend, Wayfield doesn't want to extend, you're saying like extend into a Washington electorate zone like here in Moitana Yeah, there could be other reasons I'm just unaware that the lines are quite clear when you draw them on maps. Well maybe are they just trying to respect Washington electorates to zone area and they have their area at least I'm not sure what the reasons are I'm not sure what the reasons are I'm not sure what the reasons are I thought it's been for so long that they should have their zone Yeah Or if maybe the question if there was you know a small amount of money coming from a different source i.e. us, would they be willing to expand out? To Moitana It's worth asking It is worth noting our pilot program in Moitana is moving forward so they would aid in reducing the service costs to the Moritan customers who ultimately subscribe What about consolidated? What is the relationship there and you know if they're doing anything They are Everybody is doing something right now because there is a lot of money out there to be had for broadband infrastructure investment and so they absolutely are doing things. My understanding is they're focusing more around Berlin than they are over here although I did hear a rumor about a one road in Duxbury that was getting fiber for some strange reason. I can tell you they're not currently investing in Moitana They could turn around and do it at any time That is their choice Berlin does more than work So how about that you're saying that certain people in Moitana are 7 different towns so that means they have a lot of providers than just Leefield Oh sure, even in Moitana we also have a portion of the town that has pumpkins We also have TDS We're on the Northwood side I haven't seen anybody in your crew doing a full inventory just past Washington Electric where it turns out a green mount power they haven't been that way We are prioritizing Washington Electric lines first John, do you have any questions? No I'm just really really angry especially with today. Did you have service today? I did I have purchased that Starlink satellite service It has good days and bad days but today was a good day and I actually worked we're doing home renovation so I was working down here in the village at a friend's house Cali, what about you? Do you have any questions? No I have a question, Chuck That was regarding this map that you put out So you list the red as underserved, okay and I know like the Herringbrook area some of these places that are underserved are like deer camps off the grid they'll never ever serve them and my question is if you're counting on those numbers there to help reduce your cost to your system I can pick out six right there and if this is the case throughout Moretown are you overestimating the number of people you're going to actually serve which would drive to your initial estimate down in reality if you're only going to serve half that number your cost is going to go way up and I'm just concerned about your numbers based on this map It's an excellent question, an excellent observation we have accounted for that and there is actually a strategy in play to serve them it won't likely be fiber unless they're willing to help put some of the expense of burying a line which they're probably not but there's an option called fixed wires where basically we go as close to the property as we can we put up an antenna that basically beams it and then they get a little receiver antenna on their side and it does require power so they have to have some kind of power option if they're truly without power then what's the use of the internet correct but yes, we have accounted for that and our calculations are based on grid potential customers done any more questions here yeah just listen let me just go over a couple things here I don't like to get on my phone I'm only getting on here just to it was easier to get up the rules so how may my town, city, village spend the funding our part includes four broad criteria outlining eligibility uses and I'm sure all of you guys read this but just for public I just want to put this out here to respond to the public health emergency or its negative economic impacts including assistance to households small business and non-profits to impact or aid to impact an industry such as tourism travel and hospitality so that is something that we can put this money towards to respond to workers performing essential work during the COVID-19 public health emergency by providing premium pay to eligible workers so that's the second for the provision of government services to the extent of reduction in revenue due to COVID-19 public health emergency relative to revenues collected in the most recent full fiscal year prior to emergency and so this is where we to make necessary investments in water, sewer or broadband infrastructure so those are the four categories when we get down to number four necessary investments in water, sewer or broadband infrastructure so what Chuck has been talking about is here that's something that fits under this bill water as we're doing or finishing up this this project here in the basin here that we've been working on the copay on that or if there's any town outlay on that, that would be covered with those funds as well and we don't have any public sewer so there's really no expenditure there to look at to date I don't have such do you have the exact amount we have but it's roughly $470,000 I believe we have that so the question is do we want to allocate some to broadband I think it's a good idea we did have the MOU was looked at by an attorney not the attorney that had been looking at the other towns but and he didn't have a problem with it, thought it was fine how are we have received something from VLCT urging us not to sign or make any commitments at this point until further instruction comes out there's still strings attached to this money that we don't know who's pulling those strings and how they're being pulled sure so at this point Chuck I don't there's a whole board here but I'm not comfortable saying we can give you this much and this much I think there's money for broadband in here we need to figure out the best way I think to get it we have a couple other projects and I think I'm getting together with maybe even you and Watesfield to find out what type of partnerships even that we can help facilitate because they've been such a good partner on this side of town for us to see what would work there and also I kind of want to hear from everyone else Chuck says there's a lot of people doing a lot of things and there's a lot of money in broadband right now as you mentioned so if there's other people paying for it quite frankly I don't want to get the same dollars where someone else is paying or potentially could put it I don't know what's everyone else thinking what kind of timeline do you want in terms of getting funding from the town as far as you know as we see about the American recovery funds or you know get to town meeting and maybe have something also that the folks in town would vote on I don't know what the difference was your timeline for the meeting for me so we are starting construction this winter on our more town pilot if we are able to get our hands on the necessary materials and admittedly there are material shortages galore right now we could have service as early as next summer on our more town pilot and more town pilot runs along the common road and up towards more town that road and so the question is not whether that project will go forward or not that project is going forward the question is how much debt we will have to take on in order to deliver that project and any funds we can get that don't have debt servicing attached mean directly translatable reduction in service costs to our customers so it does this I maybe have not that educated so if someone lives a quarter of a mile from the mountain road or whatever today they have to pay that to their house we will cover we will cover a portion of it and we have planned to cover a portion of it but people who do have quite long funds admittedly in that vote are likely going to have to pay some amount of money to get access to whether these funds could be used to offset that or more town residents directly I don't know that could be an interesting idea to explore yeah I'm only thinking that someone might pay something and vote on something at town meaning as part of the budget which is part of their taxes basically so then they get the service to the pole but now they're half a mile off the driveway and so they have to pay some of that as well but that's just the way it is I mean it's not that good it is what it is absolutely well yeah I think it's just like if anyone's putting in a house and you have 500 feet of service unfortunately you pay for yourself and this is just a new thing and it just came along now there's internet studies have shown that this investment does raise property values very directly for people who can this is definitely an investment worth making in their property but I also understand that not everybody is going to be in the position to be able to use it we are definitely going to be looking at ways we can help offset that we are also making sure that as we explore pricing tiers for our service we do have pricing availability for the low income numbers of our communities and then there may be provisions in here I mean again I think we should keep exploring this but where we might be able to allocate to those that can't afford to be hooked up through this because again that might be meeting a need of the individual this way so we'll kind of back end it this way to get them hooked up to you particularly if they were directly impacted by the COVID emergency it seems vital but I would caution you to explore it further with an attorney before going down a path like that while attorneys are quite confident that turning over a certain amount funds directly to us in a way that we can invest in the network is going to be in a loud use of course BLCT is for Jane taking it slow I don't know if that use would be as easily justified right well maybe I think again maybe not even in that one but as I read through those criteria there's criteria to fit that and the people who have been affected by negatively infected maybe they didn't have internet because everyone was unemployed they needed to qualify or get online to do that so I don't think that would be an issue to justify if we wanted to do that at some point but then again is it fair for everyone so we need to look at a lot of those things so probably not the answer you were looking for tonight as far as but it's certainly not anywhere close to a note or anything like that we just want to make sure we're doing their due diligence making sure I appreciate that and again I personally I can see that internet broadband is something we need to invest in one way or another in this town it's the way of the world right now and it's only going to get stronger as people are working from home so we just want to make sure we're doing it the right way though and I'm not saying yours isn't the right way I just want to be sure everyone's on board and things are where it should be I appreciate that I would ask what do you see as next steps to continue the conversation I think that's kind of on our we need to figure out see we don't know what we don't know and that's probably so I think we need to all take a little bit of time maybe talk to some other towns and find out what other people are doing and I just want to know I don't know all the questions I should be asking and or other people so I'm going to try to do more leg work just to make sure and I'm really trying to make sure that I'm not duplicating other's efforts with our money or that I'm sending it to Washington Electric that has other ways of revenue and such you know so I want to make sure that we're maximizing the dollars for the people in town that's all I'm trying to figure out that's what you should be doing so I have a more time rather than I appreciate and I think you have a great proposal and I'm glad you're working on it because it gives it a lot of credibility in my mind for you to come in here and talk to me and I appreciate that so it's I think we have a good relationship and I want to continue that if you have more information share it with us and as we have more we'll share it with you but don't be afraid to focus every once in a month because sometimes as a board we get just because we're volunteers and we're getting busy we get things get lost with us this is not something that really believe me I understand I don't think any of us have really forgot this money and Sherilyn doesn't let us forget it either but it's something we're kind of moving a little slow on I think it's probably the best so I'll connect with Sasha if you have any questions in the meantime certainly reach out to Sasha or any of us individually and I urge the board as well if they have questions to you know pass it to Chuck and let us know when you find out if you have something more on and for what it's worth we have recently switched our emails to have official cvfiber emails now so you can email war town at cvfiber.net and you'll get the war town delegation so anytime you want to shoot an email to us you can just email war town at cvfiber.net war town at cvfiber.net very good thank you everyone I have one more question I have one more again going back to your important news earlier you had a price tag of $2 million for war town service correct so I don't believe you're going to get $2 million and you're going to get back money right so where will the rest of the money come from if you cannot use community tax dollars where do you get the rest of your money and what you need sure so first of all let me start by saying we are 21 communities because berry city is one of our communities so we avoid towns also one of our communities and among those 21 communities every community is in a fairly different state of need at this point in time so our build plan prioritizes again the underserved as you were going to say multiple times at this point in time prior to the water we were rejoining the district we had estimated the entire build of the project to be approximately $50 million so that is actually the amount of funds we are considering of course $2 million is the estimated part of our town portion of that with Waterbury on board back with the envelope we're probably looking at closer to $60 million for the entire build and of course if you get up in Waterbury center there's some sprawling portions to cover so all of that being said we have put together a plan that is largely based on loans that we can get and the way it works is there's a set of loans that we can get from the state to our high interest loans to accommodate the fact that we're a fairly high risk endeavor at this point in time we have no revenues to point to to prove we've been successfully operating for some time the idea would be to take those high interest loans build out the network show three to four years of revenues then turn around and get municipal revenue bonds at much lower interest rates and so that's the model EC5 for our network down in the White River Valley and it worked now the problem though is that in doing that a large portion of their subscribers fees go to cover debt servicing so what we see as the opportunity with something like ARPA is not enabling this we were going to attempt to do this regardless of that money coming or not what it does do is debt servicing on a regular basis to lower our customers fees directly okay so the long ball I mean down the road when you were saying you could potentially see even down in this part of war town people could subscribe to CB5 or if they wanted to if they would have the option of not using Whitfield Telecom they might use CB5 or the way they use Comcast there's a lot that remains to be seen in how the CUD concept ends up forming we only have one example to work from at this point in time which is EC5 and they invented the model and they did end up providing service in areas that already had options so for example in the village of Bethel going through Bethel they had cable but now they also have access to CB5 and so the intent of the communications union district model was to help the underserved but our charge is to provide service to everyone in our community someday so we're at this weird there's this constant tension in what we try to do where we really just want to get the underserved people help and particularly in a town like war town where we do have a great provider in part of the town it's not really in our interest or desire to want to go directly although I do think generally speaking competition is a good thing in these kind of services but you know that's down the road we're probably talking best case scenario four to five years if not longer similarly Montpelier, Berry City they're going to be at the tail end a lot of water going to be at the tail end whereas towns like Plainfield, Marshfield you know they're in more towns portion just that don't have service Middle sex and Worcester are really bad with the exception of one small portion of route 2 very good any other questions for Chuck feel free to feel free to shoot me an email or give me a call if you have any other questions and I'd be happy to answer them thank you you're doing thank you for doing that Ray how are you tonight good thank you for making it alright so we were before Chuck we had Emily Wood and we had some errors of missions here actually I was able to listen to the meeting in my truck on the way over I don't know why because I didn't allow you to but I heard everything that was talked about prior to me coming to work so we're going to continue on with reports of communications John why don't you share will it share I did attend the annual meeting of VLCT it was a little different this year to format so in years past they went over basically everything that they were going to present to the legislature which had to do with highways and quality of life and so on so had a different format so this year they had the business meeting and there really wasn't much to approve there and then they are having now one today through Friday they're having different sessions on different topics and I believe Cheryl that one today Cheryl attended today's session and so this is both on zoom and in person so that made it different too but other than that there really wasn't much to report so Ray how about yourself do you have anything to add I did set up a meeting with the lady yes I think that's a fourth week sometime I talked to Martin about it and made sure he's on board to go to that meeting as well to see what's going on I did talk to Joe Gavry regarding the war memorial and basically we're going to move it it's not going to be the exact same location because if we want to put it in the same location we'd have to hire the guy to come back twice so I thought it would be okay to move it far enough he can just dig one hole pick up the monument and set it in the loop hole without having to have additional cost to say I did talk to Martin again about the trailer endorsement I talked to him today about that I'm pleased I'm making a priority to get it done this year this fall anything else that's it Ron I was just curious because Steve Robbins when he was here last week and they sent that email about the far few plans were set thinking that John was talking to him about for me or I don't know anyways I was just curious what are we doing with that I was confused what that was about what Steve was referencing in the email that we got from Sasha we need to get a committee together and I'll talk to you talking more with Steve about that it's a good idea and I think Ray he volunteered to be on that so this is a far too manager for the trailer maybe even Mike Brennan would be running too exactly maybe some people he could be the farster because that's what we need we need a farster and somebody from Parks and Rec and then planning commission and so on so we should be pulling that together let me know if you need some help and the other thing is I wanted to mention so Morpheus was great as we all know the little booth that we had on the Town Hall was great we got a lot of good feedback so the next thing is I brought some of these down you can take a look at it but then I thought we could just be having the office of people who come to the Town Hall but the reason I'm showing you this is because on Friday the 17th it will be we're going to have a people come to the Town Hall as part of our community engagement and it's part of the grant that coordinated with that so did I already give you one of these so it's going to be sort of an in-person give feedback about what we've found what we've done so far show people what it could be and not be and just get some more input from the community and then there will also be another one on the 21st which will be virtually for those who want to join us that way so I'm meeting Thursday to prepare for that a little bit more and then also get the Town Hall ready for a very unfortunate celebration yeah thank you for bringing that up maybe I think now might be an appropriate time maybe it would take moments to reflect as we know we lost a member of our community up the road here last week Amy Eilers so I'll just take half a minute here reflect I think yeah thank you everyone life is short so we'll leave it to its fullest because you never know so I hope that everybody can drop in on the 17s that would be great thank you Don well no that's it for me Sasha can I give you some of these maybe have on the counter oh no I have one more thing the hats were a great success oh yeah right we broke even we're on our way to Morfes the rest of the hats we're going to go to the next year's Morfes we have kids hats and we have Yuzelle hats and so we're raising it up right here we got it raised in a mile now that's great perfect and anyways if you know of anybody we've still got an option so left and um I got 18 dollars how much are they right? 20 I'm going to have two for you oh boy I got one I got one but people sit up we'll put that in the envelope so when I finished selling them you know at some point and I have this money from the hats and all and dearfield design was great they were really reasonable they made a bit of a donation too thanks so then I'm going to have a bunch of cash get it to Cheryl and then she'll put it in the box yeah I think there's a Morfes fund or if not we'll make sure there is one so it goes there something's gone, thank you John can you do a whole one for me please sure Grace is going up now get them while the Christmas rush or something alright Miss Callie what did you have for us I think so I was able to connect with Danny Hale who's one of the heads of BASA and basically the information that I got from him was the change in the ATV ordinance did not change anything at all so if ATVs were allowed on class 4 roads they are still allowed on class 4 roads by the town the town has always had that ability to make that change so if they were allowed that didn't change anything it just changed some wording and he was actually the perfect person to talk to because he was the person who changed the wording so we talked a little bit more about ATV use he knew exactly in essence the main place that I was talking about and his response was if we wanted to do an ordinance or anything he would be happy to help he said the people who are riding in these areas are locals he's like you're not going to get people coming in from BASA to ride on a 6 mile loop he's not going to happen he goes they're primarily locals they've been your locals he was actually part of the group a while ago when they had come in to put trails in so he has kind of been through the course of it all and he said in essence that they're having trouble with their own enforcement with how it is so they're not getting their stuff either so that's kind of where he was he was willing to help but he doesn't think it would be much help though right but in essence that wording didn't change anything for what the town may or may not have had in place to begin with so it just tweets the wording for the legislature for something that was written poorly to begin with and his response was your locals are going to be there in essence kind of no matter what you do you're going to have your locals he said people aren't coming in and there aren't any trails in the area to connect to make it more appealing so what I'm thinking about when they were talking about having you know loops on these apps they probably like map my run with under armor or the hiking things where if people do a loop and they GPS point it it then automatically uploads so if I was running and I ran the same loop someone who was new coming into the area who didn't know like let's say I traveled to Boston I could go into my app and say oh you know where are the most commonly used places so that's probably where it pops up but they didn't have any interest in expanding anything this way in essence really wanting to touch anything over this way so that is what I got from him so we might be better off as we get more information here rather than opening up things God bless you is really just trying to force something on those roads that we have now are keeping I don't know I don't see where no one really wants to engage with us to help with management of anything and they would frankly say it doesn't really work I do a fair amount of travel in New Hampshire and when I go there's a couple there's some towns and it's you got to be fairly careful of the way you're driving because there's a lot of four wheelers that are using the roads and that's why they were loud up there but they're all registered that's a problem that we have right now is you know I register and 80% of the people are registered but there's that 20% that's not registered it is fly all over the place it's all over the place and I heard about what happened this weekend they probably none of them are registered it's a lot more than just registration to be properly insured that's just the beginning it doesn't give you the okay to ever travel down a road but you're probably insured there's a lot that they're not complying by we've got to figure out to try to keep close rather than open it up to more potential your problem on that loop is not your ATVs your problem on the loop is vehicles which are fully allowed to be up there and then they go off-road the trucks and things like that we in essence set up a game camera that automatically watches Lynch Hill and our upper field because we've had more than one vehicle blow donuts in our upper field or we've had friends go head up the hill and have seen people parked there and in essence block them in and said what are you doing you're not supposed to be up here so we have a camera so we know who goes up the hill and who comes down the hill but it's more it's not necessarily the ATVs I haven't really seen anybody but the trucks they go up there and we've learned from past experience that posting signs and closing it doesn't work because we've done that and that's the signs end up trashed and the chains end up knocked over we had Lieutenant White here and you heard what their responses is it's lukewarm when they can they're fairly out so and that's why we got the camera so we know there we get an automatic picture when they're up there and I mean they're great pictures you get license plates and everything and that's how you in essence get if you can get private landowners like yourself to continue doing that I think the other thing we might have with police and Sasha can you follow up with Lieutenant White I know they were looking to send us a contract I know we were looking for just budget time but soon that we can start thinking about that maybe incorporating that and maybe those of the type of things that can patrols I mean that's what we're more apt to keep people out of there and I think anything I mean nothing else seems to work for them I don't really know that much about this stuff really but what was Steve McGill when he was here two meetings before he mentioned that there was something stopped everybody from being able to do the loop because it was a washout there was a culvert that was washed out and so then he was one I mean then he was asking could there be a gate there is that that's the question you couldn't do I mean I've never been on a road so I don't know we would can't do it and just go around it anyway and you have to go through a whole process to fully close that road you have to go through a whole separate process and I mean there's a lot of hunting camps on either side there's one there's someone who just purchased land there's going to be potentially two houses up there so on the closer side of each it's getting pretty potentially we're seeing more and more camps we're seeing more and more camps become full-time residents and that's an issue that's a real issue I think we've talked to the DRB about that it's still happening hopefully they're on top of it because like actually he used to be here on the board he's with the David remember because there was an issue there and I think the DRB had put in his permit if you decide to live here full-time then you're going to need to upgrade or those are the things we need to look about in those roads because of people living on class 4 and then also they want services you know there needs to be alright you guys need to have there needs to be mechanisms to pay for that infrastructure yeah I think the only one who's approved to be there all the time would be wet souls would be wet souls Clayton you got about what he's place he's here full-time yeah I don't think he's supposed to be did you just saw a piece of property I'm trying to near all these people did you just saw a piece of property up there or so did you just saw a piece of property that someone just had to keep on this home I was part of some land up there quite a while ago in 2001 I mean most of them are in essence hunting camps people aren't there but starting soon they're going to be there alright so I guess no real good answers on how to take care of those roads I think the best thing is landowners like yourself continue to put up game cameras and report if you see someone someone went up the road with a trail and a Jeep or something like that or anything you need to you know let people know yeah I kicked a couple people off this spring who Sean had told that they could be there and then I came out and said oh actually no you can't you need to leave when I see people I have talked to quite a few people now a lot of people think that it's public land up there and I've told them it's not public land there's a right of way and that's where you have to stay I have not any really big arguments but because I don't think that opening up the roads it doesn't sound like opening up the road so ATV use because we don't have anyone to help enforce I mean that was the idea behind that as if it was something we could have ordinances and then we can enforce it so I think we need to try to figure out another strategy maybe to to combat that thank you Callie, anything else? there's a van and I'm probably going to call another state police about it that's been parked on a very sketchy corner on Jonesbrook Road for basically all summer making that piece on Lane Road and I know I think Brotney was going to stop today and talk to them and tell them to move it when they brought the excavator down from doing the culvert work but he didn't have a chance so if I don't get a hold of Martin I'm going to stop actually just don't use talk to him, don't talk to Martin call the state police I'll call them then you don't want you don't know what it is and if it's been there all summer they've been doing work there and they have had their stuff in the road all summer so there's a house there they're working on it old school house I thought it was just parked there in the corner somewhere if they want to stop and tell them to get the stuff out of the way you can certainly reach out to Martin there's an abandoned vehicle no, they've just left it there there's stuff that's been in the road all summer it's basically made a corner especially when it rains can be slippery anyway much harder to navigate first let them know they may not know but it's been a pain in the butt they probably should but they may not realize it so if we can let them know tell Martin to let them know okay they've got an extra highway now so it can go in there okay so nothing else with you, Callie? nope just a couple quick things with me getting more tests well done I think everything went really well there was, I don't know 200, 300 people or something like that I don't know everything seemed to have gone very smooth fireworks were awesome too yeah, I think we were really fortunate they do a great job for it we heard them oh, on the other side of the mountain yeah, we heard them through the trees we could see like a light glow you should have told them and the fire department did a great job with their corn and their famous french fries now I guess and the beer was good yeah Lawson's Finest Liquids they are right there Ray? good nice to hear I had a good cupcake there too maybe on the corner some cupcakes was pretty good the only other thing I have is I had a letter it's on my phone I'll forward it to you to get on the Wreck Committee and it was from Lee and Martin she's my wife so I will pass it on all but she attended the meeting last week with the Wreck Committee and so I would like to be appointed to that if everyone if anyone wants to make that motion Lee and Martin come here second what kind of discussion do I have on this I think she'll do a good job she enjoys working with people and had a good time with the Morphe's she did a great job all in favor bye so there's a Wreck Committee still needs one more person so we should still be reaching out I know you said you thought you knew someone anyone you know we need 12-7 and that I don't know if that includes Steve getting done too because remember Steve's stepping down I think he said it does so all the people they're going to help so if it's alright they were going to use this meeting room and we said it was okay I will just give Lee in like he said we don't have to fool around with you guys so that it will make it a little bit smoother if that works alright so let's go ahead and move on old business can we just back up this as I can there and Misty when you were talking about Fletcher Road did we receive any bids no we didn't thank you Ray for bringing that up so winter set bids weren't detailed enough the only person I heard from was Bo and Cody and I thought I made it clear to get on the documents as I wrote I thought the documents were specific enough that they could have put a price on it with more detail but did parent not get on it because we did put the our completion date of October I think was it next year so I thought we need it's 25 Ray if you could take a look at RFP and I don't even maybe you want to reach out to those guys and find out kind of our word you know what does this have to work short they said anyone Sharon sent them reminders today said that and then parent constructions didn't have time she sent them to Bo and Cody and communicated with her before no answer today they will have to delay a bit till the end of the construction season you know hi yes hello what is this someone keeps on getting on the phone now he's shown up as himself but there's something there's anybody there David can you hear us technology problems not really are we muted no he's no longer muted David can you hear us yes I can all right well we'll be with you in just a couple of minutes we've got a couple of things in front of you David you can just hold steady for just a moment please okay I thought there was no connection because I was on at five or seven and it disconnected and I've been trying to connect to this we've seen you up on the screen you've been here so if you just hold still for just a minute and then we'll get right to you how's that thank you all right so we had old business while you were gone Ray's going to follow up on the Fletcher Road Bridge is there another old business from below that we need to chat about not below but I wanted to talk more about the hearing go ahead from DRB so it didn't go well the other night because we didn't have representation from anybody from watershed consulting so we've set up there's another one set up for the 15th is that right the 21st of October 21st okay October now just so everyone knows John this is the DRB you're talking about correct in the project so the project is the stormwater system out here with the two gravel ponds and so on to take care of the stormwater and so it bottom line is a lot of questions and the materials that they had available to them just the map is really small and even when it was enlarged Paula Woods enlarged on her computer and it still didn't come out well and some of the questions that came up one Brown attended and he wondered about an easement across his property and I don't think we know we didn't talk about that and it sure looks like the overflow is going to be going out perhaps on their property to that so I think to the drainage right to the overflow area and so from there it was going to tie into the culvert down here that goes down to the the new catch basin by St. Patrick's and to begin with we had some difficulty with the property line there anyway for there but now we're extending where the easement that we did get from that is no longer in effect so yeah yeah so I think what we have to do it we Sherwin said we have a large map here right which he said was in color and everything and okay so I think we need to sit down really take a close look at that but as far as I know the funding can still go forward so the grant funding can still go forward and but it would be good if we could clear some of these issues up prior to the 21st so you're going to work on that yeah yeah we're going to some of the other questions Ray had to do with when you talk about there won't be water standing water with 48 hours or something and they want to know how deep the water would be because as one of the board members pointed out you could have you can drown in an inch of water and nowhere did they talk about that as well so you've been in contact with Watershed to get them involved to make sure I've seen emails from Pam DeAndrea and getting things put together so that we can put the professional presentation forward with those guys yeah and that's important too is that Pam DeAndrea is leaving so I don't want to be dealing with but as far as I know she's going to still work on this until we've got everything and she's going to submit the grant and everything so we'll be right there anything else on that no is there any other old business we have to discuss Ray did you have anything I did not anyone around the table so instead of going to new business because we're falling a little behind here we got David on the line David was here David can you hear me you are hear you just fine okay good my microphone on my computer isn't working for some reason so I had a call in on the phone to be able to talk okay that's your 0591 is that your number David that is correct alright so you are discussing class 4 roads and legal trails what to have for us yep just if I could mention very quickly at the DRB meeting here the other day Mr. Huckaboom did a very fine job of representing the town but there's some technical issues that are best served being represented by the engineers but he did a fine job I commend him on his efforts I do you're quite welcome everybody gets nervous at these earrings everybody okay so my conversation tonight is just informational just pointing out what I've witnessed is activity in multiple towns in that development is happening in areas that historically was really not done in the towns on the class 4 roads and town trails in different towns have different regulations about the zoning for development on these and the DRBs rely on the zoning to give them guidance for any conditions that they put for development on a class 4 road or a town trail and I'm just suggesting to the select board that this is an issue in different towns and planning commissions in different towns have been given different direction from different select boards and I'm suggesting that you take a little think about this how do you want to handle development on class 4 class or town trails the specific concern is public safety some of the class 4 roads are really narrow and two vehicles just cannot pass even two cars so somebody's got to back up and more seriously is if there is an emergency vehicle a fire truck there's absolutely no way they can pass on a lot of portions of town trails some towns have requirements in their zoning that there has to be a pull off every 300 350 or 400 feet of typically 10 by 35 or 40 feet to allow emergency vehicles or any vehicles a pull off to pass so I'm suggesting that you consider what your class 4 road policies are what your zoning is and decide is this an issue that you think you should address or take a look at and if so which is the appropriate board to give the recommendations for the statutes it could be done as a class 4 road policy or it could be put into the zoning regulations there's different towns do it different ways I'm not suggesting one way is better than the other I would point out that practically speaking this could be a thorny issue in the future if somebody puts development on a class 4 road and it's in the zoning and the DRB addresses it they could say you've got to put bypasses every 300 or 350 or 400 feet and in some cases that could be quite a bit of development so whatever recommendations whatever board comes up with it's got to be done carefully with thought as to the impact for any future land development on these situations so it's just a suggestion just for information that is what I propose to discuss with the board or present to the board thanks David do you have any ideas sounds like you've gone to other towns there's a lot of other things going on you have a list of ideas or ordinances I don't have any off the top of my head I have seen them lots of times I look through zoning for comparison purposes I could spend a little time and try to get some examples I would look through the zoning stuff rather than the town ordinances and I could report back to either the select board or the planning commission as you wish tonight it came up a little earlier we were on the periphery of we were talking about I think it was development on class 4 or such so it is something that we've discussed before and we do have some things in their ordinances at the top of my head I couldn't type what they are but if you want to go ahead and look into what other towns are doing and then report back to us I think that would be a good idea in the meantime we can kind of circle the wagons here and figure out who needs to mate whether it's you or like you said the planning commission to find out the best way to go to and again whether it comes through a policy or zoning we need to figure that out but I think it's a good thing to look at I appreciate that okay this will be at least a month before I get back to you because I'm backlogged now so it will be at least a month yeah no that would be just fine thank you very much I appreciate your time I had a couple of questions with if you don't mind something came up this week it was a permit that you had issued to Dan Noise Dan Noise yes and it should have gone to the DRB can you tell me about that yes this is quite an embarrassment I did not act on that application within 30 days the more town zoning says that any application that's not acted on within 30 days is approved deemed approved the state statutes which control zoning say the exact same thing if you don't act on it within 30 days it's approved now by action that means either approve it deny it or refer it to the DRB I did not act on it in time so when I looked at it I said I missed it by two days there's the statutes and the zoning and the state statutes it was clear to me that I had to approve it so I did approve it and I put the conditions that the 891 address had to be obtained for the judicial unit and that he had to post zoning notice in view of the public right of way which is Route 2 at that point a joining neighbor saw the notice and has an issue and has submitted an appeal the appeal the appeal was application was complete and the fee was submitted so I scheduled this appeal for the DRB meeting which is going to be the 21st and in my discussions with the LCT to ask some technical stuff about this issue it turns out that there's not only statutes that control the zoning regulations but there's also case law cases that go to court and then a precedent is set by the court so this is rather a complicated issue and it is all in the hands of the DRB at this point how did you happen to miss a 30 day deadline you want the details of my health issues I will give them you will wish that you never have anything like happened to me it put me behind a couple weeks and the workload has been heavy I don't need details you're saying you were out because you were not working is that it I didn't get to it it's my fault I'm not chucking that responsibility I just screwed the pooch and I couldn't have picked the worst application to do it on what was that comment you just made it's a colloquial comment that I used so so I made a mistake I've apologized and I'm leaving it at that have we ever missed a deadline like that before an issue to permit had to issue a permit or such I am not aware of that happening in Morton in Watesfield I'm not talking about someone talking about you and us no I have not missed one did anything happen with the Newman property that was in the Newman like that we missed something and we ended up having the issue of permit there too I correct myself I'm sorry I did miss that one and that was that was negotiations back and forth and she she realized that there was a gap in communications of 30 days and she asserted her right to get a permit issued and I did so I stand corrected Tom it did happen once before okay thank you any other questions for David I have one for David can I ask that what's the Travis wait a second David we have a someone from the public I know you're Travis Travis Blodgett here he has a question for you so I'm going to go ahead and let him ask you go ahead Travis David what's our current zoning regulations do we have a current zoning regulation on sir could you please move closer to the microphone sorry about that David do we have a current zoning regulation on access and footage requirements and our zoning bylaws do we have a for building on class 4 roads and legal trails I guess we do for the class 4 roads any development on a class 4 road has to be approved by the DRB so there can be landlocked lots that are accessed through deeded right of ways but the zoning administrator can approve those those have to be done by the DRB is that accordance with act 4 4 1 2 remediation is that correct is that correct 2 remediation 3 alright anyone else learnings on a Dave Ray has one more question for you Dave I talk here earlier about the permit for the work on the restoring the schoolhouse on jonesburg road initially you told me they didn't need a permit but now I understand that you asked them to get a permit and meanwhile the work has continued up there so where do you stand on that are they going to get a permit or are they not going to get a permit what's going on with that and who is this for my speaking to sir this is Ray watchburn okay Ray when they initially personally about development on this building they said that they were going to be doing external repairs and internal work and there would be no changes in building dimensions while they were doing the construction work repairing the foundation which does not require permit maintenance repairs they ran into high ground orders so they raised the building four or five feet that was made I was made aware of this by a neighbor and I went and investigated and lo and behold the building was higher so that constituted a change in the structure it's no closer to the road but it's now four feet higher so that's a change in dimensions and that requires a permit and I advised the owner that they had to put in a permit and I advised the owner that you have done the construction without the permit and they paid the 100% penalty for doing construction without a permit when I received the permit it indicated that the setback from the building to the center of the road was 62 feet the zoning regulations in that zoning district are it has to be 65 feet so I advised the owner that I'm sorry I can't approve this permit you are going to have to put in an application to the DRB and a conditional use application to get approval for doing this work to get a waiver for this setback the application was submitted the fees were submitted that is on the schedule for the hearing on the 21st okay I'm just surprised that they've been able to continue work there I'm not opposed to the project I'm just surprised that this project has been going on since May and it hasn't stopped and there's been no permit posted up there it's right on the main road up there a lot of people are asking how they can do that it just looks bad from the whole town they've got their permits they should be posted would they be able to do that you just said you couldn't it should be posted by now or tomorrow I told them I could not authorize continued work and that any work they do would be at risk and could be ordered to be torn apart by the DRB and again my my goal is to get people into compliance with the zoning it's not to punish people and having them submit the applications and get scheduled my view is working diligently to get them into compliance very good alright David thank you if there's no other questions for you you're free to leave or you're free to stay however you'd like to do it thank you very much sir you have a good evening you as well thank you alright so that is our zoning so now we're either for seconds and let's go back to new business anyone has new business for the board tonight anybody nothing Sasha what about yourself we have anything new old stuff we all we're still good with the town garage and the lights and that stuff that's going on or just the doggie sign that's all we're doing which John or you are going to doggie sign it armwrestling tonight before we leave armwrestle for that privilege is that the internet at all I mean the only thing on the town hall is you know we also have that condensation problem we need there Sasha's going to I guess look and this is one look as Cheryl in see what's out there for any kind of rants to look at but we need to do a scoping study or something engineering study on the town hall for no no I was talking about the town hall I said town hall yes so the lighting and then we also have other issues that would be really worth trying to see if we have wall we'll look at that like everybody else it's just a bad time here to try to even talk to anybody about that as long as it's on everyone's radar it is on the radar for sure we'll just going to use the grant for the lighting and then we'll have to see what we can get next year we'll get some pricing for it we can include it in the town meetings okay I'm sorry that's all right all right so if there's nothing else I do have something I'd like to go into an executive session with so I'm going to make a motion to go into executive session and I'm doing it on the number four and this is stating it's a disciplinary or misalaction against the public officer employee but nothing in this subsection should be construed to prepare the right of such an officer employee to a public hearing if one will try to survive so and it would be just the board so Sasha you can head out tonight I was having this night and work up thank you so any second on that oh you did all right John second all in favor of what I I I she's


Hello, everyone, and welcome to this one-on-one conversation with candidate Mary Wynstailio Connor, who wants to return to the board of assessors. We want to get right into the conversation. 15 minutes is going to go by fast. So Mary, first of all, if I can ask you about the fact that in the debate that was recently held, one of the points that was brought up and that you dismissed pretty quickly was the idea that there may be time for a change on the board. And one of the other candidates is from a different generation, let's say, than you and I. And I was talking about bringing kind of new blood and a new perspective. And you were saying that really is not relevant to the board's work. Could you elaborate on that a little bit? Certainly. Thank you, James. The board of assessors is not a political board. It is a board that pretty much is a policy board. And the candidate who was suggesting new blood was suggesting it in the nature of getting on the board to essentially help young families in town. That's not what the board of assessors does. The board of assessors basically sits as a jury or a judge and looks at the assessments that the director of assessments for the Department of Assessing puts on property. And when people file for abatements, they look at the information that the taxpayer brings and makes an unbiased decision. So that's one of the reasons. And the other reason is to quote Mr. Jameson of during the debate, he mentioned that I was the best assessor on the board of assessors. So I would suggest that I should be returned to the position based on one of my own opposition suggesting the good job that I've done. Okay. I did wanna just probe a little bit further. Yes, of course, you're right that it's not a political organization. It's also not a representative organization. It's not meant to represent voters or any particular constituency or demographic. However, would you not agree that different people at different stages of their life are bringing different perspectives and different sets of values and concerns to the board? And wouldn't it be a good idea to have somebody who's in the position of the folks that are often on the other side of transactions with the board, somebody with relevant experience from that perspective to bring to the board? Well, I honestly, James, have to take issue with the fact that you're bringing a perspective for a certain age group to the board, you're not. You're applying standards and statutes and laws. And as an attorney, they need to be applied blindly without regard to an age group, except if it's a senior exemption or that type of thing. So bringing a perspective is not relevant per se to the board. You have to be in a position to understand the Department of Revenue standards, the mass appraisal standards and the statutory obligations. So it's not a perspective, it's understanding the law and applying it accordingly. Okay. And one of the things that did come up again in the debate, both Mr. Toschan and Mr. Jamison cited instances of potential inequity, but mostly opacity and kind of difficulty understanding the process when it comes to assessments and abatements and dealing with the board in general. You have been a member of the board for a good long time now. Are there improvements that can and should be made in order to increase transparency and just make the process a little bit easier to navigate? Oh, we have on our website the process and Mr. Jamison or Mr. Taschan had said that there was not a PDF of the abatement application and I actually after the debate checked with the assess director of assessment and he tells me there is a PDF form on there. So it is all explained and the board of assessors office helps taxpayers many times when they come to the counter and helps them with the process. So there's lots of things online that can help taxpayers. And the other thing that the board of assessors does is that when we review an abatement application and if we deny it or we allow it in part we offer the taxpayer the ability to have a hearing. We're not required to do that and we bring them in and we let them present their case again and we tell them our position and then we make a decision. We revisit it. So would I be correct then in assuming from what you're saying that you are quite comfortable with the way that the board does its business right now and that you don't think that either concerns or frustrations that Mr. Taschan, Mr. Jamison perhaps others would have brought up that those aren't being already kind of addressed effectively. I think that they are being addressed effectively. We're always open to listening to taxpayers and addressing other matters. But I think that that was just campaign rhetoric from the two of them to be honest with you. Okay. I mean, one of the, I would like to point out that we've, I've not seen either of them and Mr. Jamison has been in town a very long time. Mr. Taschan has only lived in town since August. They never once come to one of our public hearings to express any concerns. So I think it's just political rhetoric. Yeah, we'll actually be following up on that with them in these conversations as well. So another thing I was wondering about is in the debate you at one point as part of an answer we're talking about how much work is involved for the assessors just in doing the work that you do and that there are only four people in the assessor's office to do that work. Is that, is that adequate? Is the work commensurate with the number of people to do it? Is that a problem at all? I don't see it as a problem. There are 15,000 parcels in the town of Arlington. That includes personal property, commercial, industrial and residential. And the director of assessment's office, that four people are ultimately responsible for the assessments. The board of assessors is the group that hears the applications for abatements and deferrals and exemptions and things. I think it's sufficient, frankly. I think the department has run very well and is cost-effective for the town. Do you have an opinion on the adoption or not of split rates? That is potentially using the burden on homeowners by setting a higher rate for commercial and industrial property? The board of assessors is asked to weigh in when we go to the classification hearing in December as to the impact of a split rate, you know, classification. And we do a chart every year, the director of assessments does a chart which shows the impact that it would have on commercial and industrial property versus the residential taxpayer. We can go to 150% of assessment on commercial and industrial property. The net effect, and it's a board of a select board decision. It is not the decision of the board of assessors. We do not make that type of policy, but based on the information that we have provided to the select board, it would cause a tremendous financial burden on commercial taxpayers because most leases are pass-throughs. They're what's called triple net. So the commercial tenants pay their rent and then they pay their share of all the other expenses. By way of example, for every $500,000 in taxable and assessed value, a residential homeowner, if there was a split rate, the way the property is divided up now would save about $150, whereas the commercial taxpayer would pay an additional $2,700 on 500,000. I think that if you look around town, it's not that we have the strongest commercial tax base as it is. There are a lot of empty storefronts. I think people are concerned the way the town looks, and I think it would only work to further, negatively impact the commercial tax base. That's my personal opinion. Right, you're saying that the way that this functions, it would be a disincentive, basically, to attract in terms of trying to attract more money. Absolutely, and you can see if you look at the heights and you'll recall we had a national Panera bread that ended up leaving. So it's not just, it would have a devastating effect, I think, on the small mom and pops in town, but it's also had an effect on other, it would also have a negative effect on even the bigger companies. So I'm sorry, just to clarify, are you saying that the fact that Panera did move some years back from the heights was connected? No, no, no, no. But it was, what I've heard it was connected because of rising rent costs. That's what people from Panera have told customers. Okay, with about four or five minutes left for us to chat today, I was wondering about one other thing and then I wanted to invite you to add in anything that we wouldn't have covered. And that is, what do you see as the role of technology in helping you do the work that you do and helping the assessors do the work that needs to be done? Is there, are there additional technical tools that could be helpful in doing the assessments? Sure, the mass appraisal process that's used for assessing properties it has IT components to it because the statistical modeling and testing that's used, all of the property record cards for the entire town of Arlington, you can go on the assessors database and get your property record card. As I told you that you can complete your abatement application in a PDF online. So there are a number of technological things that the assessors office uses already. And you know, I guess I did have one last thing. In talking about the split rate earlier you were mentioning and sounds compelling to me that the discrepancy in those rates would be a problem in terms of attracting new businesses to town. Is there a role for the assessors in attracting new business to town? That's not the role of the board of assessors. That's more chamber of commerce, select board. You know, if Arlington had a bigger commercial industrial tax base a split rate could be workable but it's not Boston, it's not Somerville, it's not Waltham or Watertown. But I did want to mention James that both of the candidates running against me had talked about a residential exemption. And you know, I wanted to speak a little bit about a residential exemption. And there were only I believe 13 communities out of 351 in the Commonwealth of Massachusetts that have residential exemptions. And the cities that have residential exemptions have a very large absentee landlord base and a lot of apartment buildings. So it makes sense. Arlington is not in that situation. And though a residential exemption is something that would be decided by the select board, based on the split now it would unduly burden people, I would say seniors who tend to be in larger homes with a much higher tax rate. One of the candidates said that he wants to help the young families in town. I would suggest to you that any young family that is buying in town is buying at a certain price range and would expect to pay the taxes on the property. I can't imagine that any young family would expect seniors to subsidize the tax rate for them. It also has Lexington looked at this issue in detail and decided not to go with the residential exemption. You know, it would result in frankly, it would have some pretty devastating effects. I think that a lot of people, we had a lot of two families become condominiums. I think you'd see people with two families because they would be over the break point for the residential exemption of about 830,000, converting them, you're taking housing stock off the market, apartments would likely go condo. So people that cannot afford to buy in Arlington, but that can afford to rent in Arlington would be disadvantaged in my opinion. All right, well, we have less than a minute left. I don't know if you wanted to add in anything. If not, we can close the conversation here. Up to you. I just wanna thank you very much for this opportunity and I hope everyone stays well under the circumstances and what we're all going through. Thank you so much. All right, well, we appreciate you're taking the time to talk to us today and best of luck to you and the other candidates on June 6th. Thank you. I've been talking to Mary, Winston, Leo, Connor, the incumbent and in the race of course for a return to the board of assessors. Thank you for joining us. I'm James Milan. This is ACMI. We'll see you next time.