I've introduction why we think that open source banking is needed and feasible and Phillip will take over and present some ideas on protocols and technical issues The first thing I want to emphasize is that open source banking is a good attack point to hack into society to transfer the open source grassroots paradigm to wider area of the tertiary sector This is especially apparent because There are several things which are common in this banking and financing and programming from a cultural Sands as you can see There are useful analogues and analogies between banking and programming Give me a moment Such as the first one is it affects People's daily life and they have to be conscious about these issues. It's different from say Road construction or power usage when I use somebody's road I don't have to care about how it is constructed very much when I use electrical energy I usually am not a power plant who is responsible for providing this But on the other hand if I do have If I am doing my banking transaction, I have to be quite conscious about what I'm doing So it is one of the activities in daily life which really require everybody's attention It's a widely pervasive and this is similar to programming or computer usage which at least Requires a minimal degree of attention to the second Parallel I want to point to is that we are dealing with webs of value banking originally Came from webs of value among merchants who ship Goods and in ancient Greece Chinese societies and It was a mutual web of trust in effect if we're using Programs especially open source programs. This is also a kind of web of trust We are not compiling everything Ourself and we are not checking our resource code But if we know that the program has been written by somebody we've trusted or we know it has been Reviewed by people who we trust We also transfer It's the same trust we have in banking to the same to the trust in programming Our data are as valuable as money is The third thing I want to point out is that I This programming and banking are very much based on human conventions. They are not influenced by natural laws they are Unlike say a chemical process which is tightly bound to the laws of thermodynamics In banking and accounting. I'm just very much free in realizing human conventions for example, I did Discount calculation calculation rules rules for a commercial e-commerce application and We had quite a lot of protocols, which are all humans human conventions to transfer to that so what banking and programming share here is that They are both rather remote from the laws of nature and of course, they are all very scalable Scalable. I mean you can do it in small scale. You can do you have all these little Linux accounting applications You don't have to do it in large scale only say there's no shareware for a nuclear power plant because okay The scale is so large and you can't distribute it to the masses But what we observe actually is that Banking is a very proprietary Area it's a moment and I want to emphasize this is by to historical accident It was only very recently or rather recently that public key Cryptography was developed in the late 70s and That it become well known to everybody in the early 90s with For the man who promoted PJP and so we do not have much banking Standards who already implemented public key key photography. Of course, you can say we've got Digicash and we've got the new HBCI standards But all this is rather new and all this is not yet really open source The open source paradigm has come even later and so it's Not yet included So this is This lack of open source banking is a little bit Unatural because the free software paradigm is strongest where security is involved and What we would consider the most natural approach is to make all the source coach public Maybe to make even the server world readable and to let everybody hack it who wants to do so We might point out that Technology is basically published and we only have to implement this If we do this Now it would pay way much back to the community One thing is that Implementing on open source Banking implementation will give us Good object models I have Davis talk talked about last night talked about Libraries we could use and develop Low as well as high-level RPs The financial transactions are Could be shared back to the community I mean currently if you do some electronic commerce and You use some say you even use some public Domain web interface say some pearl script or or whatever the ultimate benefit goes to a proprietary bank which is Using a proprietary database and it won't show you everything. It won't give out anything back to the community So what we want to Get you involved get out everybody involved is developing a system setting up a bank which can pay Benefits back to the community The alternatives Really disgusting if we look at say Micro payments we will have a lot of micro payments in an idea world say you lie you download some music You like the music you want to donate some one dollar to the musician and now assume you have to pay 20 cents to Bank which uses some obscure and proprietary software and you don't know what happens with your data and You feel you're not supporting the right financing system So what we want to set up is on open source banking system consisting of Mutual web of trust which allows transactions to be done easily and to be done in a secure cryptographic manner First example to use this would be to start a GPT script and Pivots for that So The Parallel I want to point here is we were just collecting efforts to to set up a banking application and I Think now is the right time frame to do this. I think now is the There is a certain need to do this as I see from the white audience who has come here before we start was a discussion I'd like to turn over to Philip will give us some Okay, so we Had the idea to make an open source bank and thought About the concept The first idea we had to look at the normal banks. What are they doing? Here we have the bank there are a lot of customers and When one customer want to make a transaction with another customer The whole thing works with the bank. So what we need is a central server or Distributed server or whatever Yes, that was the idea then we taught talked to several bank specialists and To set there are several problems. We need a lot of server capacity Perhaps if we have about 10,000 users, then it will be a big amount of capacity we will need we will need the people who administer the servers and The problem is that we have to be a bank for the Yeah, to issue the money and the problem is that it's it costs a lot of money to set up a bank and That's not what we want to do. So we thought about another concept. So let's say we have those six Customers of not being and what they want to do is to make transactions So let's say this customer wants to make a transaction to this customer. Let's say he transfers 10 nut bucks So what he does is he? Set up an email or something like that Signs it with his keys and sends it to the Other customer who should get the 10 nut bucks Yes Okay so This customer gets the signed Email or whatever and then he has to decide whether he trusts this email or not so what we need is a web of trust between those two Customers Or the other thing we need is and certification authority which signs his see his keys so that he can trust the Certification authority and contrast him Yes, so let's say we make several transactions Let's say this user transfers 20 nut bucks over here and For example, this user transfers 30 nut bucks Okay what we have here is Let's call it circle the thing is that The transactions we made are Full channel between and vexel in German so The user says I do not I cannot I have no physical Possibility to give you the money now But I guarantee you that as soon as we can exchange the money we will do it That's what what the transaction is and What we have here is that those three customers that everyone has Yes, has given away the has sent the nuts box and What we can do here is to optimize the thing The minimum of the circle is 10 nut bucks the minimum of the mounts So what we can tell each of them is just to lower the Transaction by 10 bucks. So what we have here is zero 10 and 20 and this transaction Falls away How can we achieve this This is done by setting the nerd bank in the middle of the whole system and Informing the nerd bank whenever and turn to a transaction happens. So the nerd bank collects the information about the transactions and Searches for roots to optimize so the Positive things of this concept is that the users can exchange money not Can exchange this virtual money Without the need of a central Authority they only need to trust each other Why a web of trust or a certification authority? The only thing the net nerd bank does is to optimize those transactions afterwards as soon as this is possible Yes, but there is one problem with this concept The problem is that the customer does not trust the other customer enough and Perhaps he thinks that he doesn't get the money. So what can he do? with the previous model of the of the normal bank there is a bank which guarantees the transactions So when the other customer doesn't want to pay the bank Handles the whole thing and the customer gets his money How can we achieve this security in this system? That's possible by Making normal banks our users So the bank is an equal node in the system and If the customer doesn't trust this customer enough then he can go to the bank and Get the money from them Get it paid directly or whatever and the bank Does the rest was with the with the sander of the money so the And for this service of the bank The customer has to pay the Spisen Yeah, the transaction fees so it's possible with this method to Install a worldwide network of customers who Can easily make transactions without costs and They without the special bank transaction costs and if if one of the customers wants the Guarantee to get the money now Then he can pay a bit then he can pay the transaction and have the scanner guarantee for it So it's possible if for for the people who do not need that guarantee and believe that the system works correct and so on that they have transaction for zero costs and And have a good possibility to Transact money via the internet Okay Well, we should emphasize here is The idea that all the software on the server is open source and it's free software So you can download it and if you don't like the scheme you just set up your own you can clone it you can Set up your own banks as we're guaranteed that the whole thing won't get very ory and and We do not think this is terribly difficult because We will just set up a server which we was a database and XML interface and parts some XML data YGPG as a first step and then we will do some Propagraphic implementations we'd like to invite you to the first thing is of course just doing by best and most good the thing is that you can Choose by yourself whether you put whether you give out the information about the transaction or not But the problem is that it will be rather impossible to optimize to transactions if you do not give out this information But you will have to you will have the possibility to say no Now it's it's making the thing easier What we care what the one of the problems we had is that When we want to transfer money from one country to another that the banks want a lot of money for it and What we can do here is to optimize the transactions so that That That was Transfers from one country to another aren't needed any longer in the same way and it is possible to Collect certain batches of transactions with Subnotes who collect more data and who might interchange among these subnotes So it is a possibility to get some iris in there Is there Okay Yeah, that's the another thing we have to do is to Set up another Network rather similar to the normal certification authorities which includes the information of How much money the people are? Yeah, how much money the people Yes Yes So Yes, but the same problem It's the same problem with with with normal banks if you go to 10 banks and and they all Investigate you and find that you you are perhaps 10,000 Demarks worth then they all give they all will give you the same money and at the end it's the same I think But they're not doing this internationally Not yet Well, there's always a calculated risk Well Eventually the nerve bank in the middle is is going to be a real bang There's no there's no way around this as far as I can judge from the legal situation That's a good question Well the software the nerve bank is running is GPL and As far as I can I can judge the German law if you want to run this if you actually want to issue the money So yes, you have to be a bank and then you're within the regular system all the all the legal setup is there for for for regular banks. It's just a different software running this Yeah Well You can that's that's the ultimate goal. I mean I'm not I'm not with the group I'm I just part of the laptop and I've been talking with them for for quite some time. So those are My ideas to this as far as I can tell this is a workshop. So everybody's invited to to give their opinion about this and You don't have you don't really need a bang basically you need a gateway into the banking system That's the way I see it that is a bank on its own excellent No, but you only need the gateway into the real as long as you're not the bank as long as you just Telling the banks the way they understand it. We're doing transactions here. You might get around it But I'm not a lawyer Using Way you're from okay, so transaction costs here is too high to do this in micro payment Well, basically, that's the point. Why why do you need a bank right now? The banks give you trust now If if crypto can give you trust with the bank The way I see only if you ever say I want this actually paid out Yeah Exactly exactly so unless unless the growth of takes it takes net bucks you have you have to convert it to us dollars And that's where you that's where where the interesting part starts like you can either be a bang There's no there are lots of different answers, but their answers not solutions as far Good question Yes To take part in the risk as well Well exactly what's their participation Well, you can you can sell the risk to a nerve basically someone that has insurance like a regular bag So on what basis every customer gets the same chair according to transaction volume If I know that somebody rated this guy worth a thousand bucks and somebody makes sure that he's never able to spend more than a thousand bucks To other people at the same time That's only limited risk that this press is not worth Solid box Yeah Would be something But you need a central system there and not something that you can Move messages around because you need somebody to track how many money or how many debt You need central information on a central system you need a you need central information on a central system Well the problem is and do you trust the database information Well depends on when the patient runs out, I mean it's basically the same as he cashed But as long as you as you have a patient on it you need to work for the options and this as I see it I would I would rather than actually talk about a specific protocol See that more as a chance to to modeling the transactions and then have Somebody implement some protocol as long as you can agree on it. You're going to use it So is this feature do you not think this features covered by the pattern that's what You see system that's Yeah, I mean if that happens to us we don't even have to start I mean we need something where You can do a transaction to someone that's not in the system If you're worried about your privacy You just have to open free bank account with old banks with everything systems. They don't know shit about their customers They don't know how to deal with that It is to make and to cobalt programs to ever figure it out Yeah But that's a very good I'm running out I think I've seen common service They attract right out of the hose and pushing it into into into that application service like really really big Yeah I'm For example You have to go to an ATL to load the car you could just as well go to an ATM The only advantage you have is by carrying 20 grams less Like the euro Have you ever met just thought about how much weight that is how many trucks that is This is totally secure. They won't trust them without the shadow Are they doing that in Germany to Things in Germany with an EC card first thing is you you type in your pin and the car Say the second thing is you give them the car you do a signature Right, so it's not a way because no one holds it holds if you use only the car You must type a bit otherwise you must use a check Yeah Actually, no, actually it's cheaper for For them to use the signature because what the signature says is that in case I can't get the money from the bank The money must reveal your address. That's the signature you give me. It's a complete web of trust there It's like the bank issued you this EC card and I can read your bank information out of the EC card And so the EC card is guaranteed to achieve some money and good chances are you still within that limit Basically Right It's an online section The biggest problem is that you can you can refuse the transaction six words the six weeks afterwards So and that cost The person that asked for the money will be charged It's completely free for you to say six weeks afterwards. Nah, I don't want you to have that money Yeah I don't have the perfect protocol. I know it's there, but as long as the patrons on it Yeah In his sense It's actually as far as I can see for the for the consumer is the most secure thing His name is they all the only thing you give out is your name and your and your bank number They withdraw it And if they make a mistake all you say is even if they don't make a mistake you just say no So six weeks afterwards you can be on vacation so For me that's for the at least for the consumers in the most secure system, but the wallet is more interesting Interesting. I mean the protocol sometimes the protocol fair just about everything you can think of very specific things We need we need the interaction. We need to say Hey This take this API let it agree on on some protocol both ends be I mean Just just just the transaction within the country has got to be a challenge. I don't know if I want to send you money Trust me. It's got to be a while And um, the other thing is, uh, this directly goes into middleware systems Basically, um, are you aware of the of the of the bank internet banking middleware situation in Germany? It's uh, my basically we have another Microsoft here in Germany. We'll cut this 90% market share and Believe me, I've worked on their system for two years. I don't want to do that again And um, there is huge there in the cony Is that It's a startup company. Yeah, they have 90% market share on the german internet banking Basically, basically, um, they're saying, uh, we're not going to profit. We're going for market share because this is the most important thing Anybody anybody can write an application just like we're I mean we're drawing a bank here anybody can do that I mean, okay, so uh, but uh, the market share is the important thing. It's like, um The application is not No, basically basically what they're what they're saying is if you need the information to run the application Actually the application only processes information. The information is carried through the middleware We have 90% market share on the middleware. It's like Microsoft has the desktop, but they got The the pool of actions that are served to this desktop and So the open source middleware is right next to it and and the and the api to the user is a wallet It's that's that's how, um, a normal person thinks of when he thinks of money. He thinks of his wallet There's cash in there. There's a credit card in there says you see part in there stuff like that And basically what we need is is this infrastructure. I can just Come up with the protocol put it into a virtual card and plug it into your wallet and it and If it's possible It should communicate with a real wallet. There must be a gateway somewhere in between there to for me to to put money directly in your real wallet and so yeah, I can The protocol is that there's an open question, but making making making those You have to model the transactions just get one transaction working and then implement it finally for example, all All uh, German banks will be will be IP based by the end of the year HPCI So this is a perfect opportunity to to build a gateway there and just sit on top of HPCI for a while till Till till the patent runs out and you can actually put your cash in there. There's an sec protocol. There's plenty out there um Different different solutions for different things so we are talking about an client services in here like a wallet client and the server that is able to And make transactions with that based on let's say HPCI and it's all open source software And it's secure and there's cryptography. That's also open source in there. And so we are fine. We have some client software we have some server software. Yeah, we're still missing something from bank right, I mean I think with this one with these two possibilities first possibility Found the bank become a bank and secondly is have a web of trust like in in In rating people like in rating this guy is worth sound clubs. Do you think you can rate people that way on the trusty? trusty basis You see that that that could be a very hard thing to achieve, right? I think you're saying that you don't need a web of trust but you need a hardware.  It's that what he's giving me is trustworthy Right, so there you need to keep these paintings and you need to identify or something on that that says that this is always going to be valid for x amount And then it's isn't like that you can have a bank You're in that system of bank At a bank basically you think by the money That's Well, there's no products at gpm. So basically just accidentally have a sort of run this To use this It's all there you can use it Yeah Well, you can that once again Yeah No, no, this is a serious question. What can I buy with the money? That's why I mentioned hbci the second year of hbci you can have you can say, okay, look Me as a nerve bank, I'm not actually giving you an account What I'm giving you is the possibility for me to access all your accounts With this open-source software. So look, I I I don't have secrets I I'm just I'm just your game. Well, I'm just just over here Basically once the hbci is the ip interface of any bank in germany so basically as long as the merchant has driven bank account and As long as we're in Germany, so the chances are very very high at least one You just you just transfer money in there and then you say okay, but the bank the bank said I accepted this transfer That's like putting in a check and then you all you have all you have to do in fact is I have managed to get this through the gateway and the gateway secures this But the whole motivation to start this The system is because The current systems are just too expensive. This is right Is that a main motivation? You Because everybody made profit There's always got to be a cost and it's going to be driven down by technology It's a spin that way. It's going to be the same way in the banking system. Yeah, I've talked to I talked to People in the u.s. And they said we don't expect to there to be anything except online banking within two years because it's just too expensive The banks can compete if they have that they do not use online banking wherever they can Because basically online banking is only fixed cost the transaction is taken care of by the net You don't have to build your infrastructure. You can be a bank globally positioned without Anything except a dial-up modem and and and some some shitty piece of of hardware. Well, anybody Charles You know what's wrong? Yeah. Okay. They are now opening a chain of scores being online Don't don't miss out on Charles And They are now expanding that operation Because they are they they have they have been known to a lot of new customers from each one And and the only way to further serve and probably exploit Those customers is by giving them an IRL The customers won't accept a totally digital interface to the shop operation Of course, of course, but what what's the difference? I mean if I walk into a bank if I talk to my banker Now what does he take out when I say do this transaction for me? Does he take a piece of paper and put it on there and give it to the secretary and then Have a person piled down the hall and we just take out our two smart cards put them together and say nice nice training with you That's The internet is not about sitting at home and surfing. So then you're only talking about efficiency Efficiency is going to drive this one way or the other Look at at the game. That's the other way. I mean if anybody that gets this card into the into the hands Can read my last ten transactions and they're oh so anonymous I mean, have you ever considered? You you you're dealing with with with the vendor for a very long time And just by accident you buy by some other Vendor he doesn't like the next time you pay there You're like look, what did you do at this at this guy's place? I mean Do I want that? But it's out there The second people started using the game pattern that was lost again against this and then It's going to be it's going to be harder. So it's a it's a race against against other You have too much confidence in technology, but there's also a strong historical argument because um Yeah, because unlike, um, the the pattern that appears magic money took, um, this is really um, free to copy and it should at least attract people say from the Linux a photographer's community and if these people like it then it could establish a pretty good reputation and Although other people are not so interested in the in the details. They know that um the photographers like it and so it could gradually spread among a major audience Bank If I could be a bank and I feel that I there's some some threat from the open source I could go and ask bruce schnaya to like grab you all my systems and Bring in somebody else like And and let them state that I don't mess with customers privacy I would have like basically the same goal But I could could invite Linus and and of course really it's about trust in things if you trust an open source Well, fine open source is a free requisite for for trust at least photography. So I I don't I don't really want to use ms money on 2000 to talk to an hpci Server that's written and running under windows nt It's like it's really nice that the final point in the chain is a it's an idea ever hose Yeah, right, but look what's in between so I think that's only a very small part of the problem Just to bring up another point where is the money actually stored at Time is where is my And what happens if that's Massive Massive distribution The way I see Crypto Broadcasted on every single Network you can get on and have have basically Like i'm broadcasting my my cryptid packets I want to to get back in case my my drive crashes And that's it for you doing the favor at storing is it storing it for me. I'm storing some of your broadcasts First you have to send the service around that because I don't expect normal people to do that kind of stuff You know That's gotta be completely transparent And we would think that stored there is is You should be able to come up and post it on Not the same, you know, whatever And somebody will keep it so I'll always be able to Well, uh, depends on depends on the world You can always You can always have You always have a service provider that will guarantee you some like two megabytes of secure space left space I would go bust, you know, yeah I don't I don't think so I think so if I would set up such a service Like I provide you Techniques of safe storage I want some money because it costs a lot of money to set up this system Regenerative backups and what else? Well, it's the perfect job for the for your ISP Direct connection no no other computer in between And he gets a monthly charge There were actually some banks of Germany talking about becoming ISPs because well We can store all these data of our customers at least in these big, you know, all we had for the money For about two years now for a bank that is an ISP They're not talking about it. They just did it I know a bank that that is an ISP Yeah Enormous amounts of money On the ISP, but they are still ISP Well, they had a good idea Now look at it It's a much like It's like It's like And they are an ISP They are they have more They have more bank shops than Deutsche Bank And they have every bank shop is selling Internet accounts Well, Deutsche You know, you know what Deutsche Bank put in 150 155 ended line with a 35 34 backup That's and They didn't need the speed. They needed The megabytes and was cheaper for them to have 155 And then Uh, three two ended lines at maximum traffic Because the traffic is cheaper on the faster line And um That's they started out with four ended And within two years they went up to 155 And plus the three four backup day What are they doing with that? So posting their Internet services I mean Blockchain's monthly So this is Deutsche Bank Have you seen There's zillions of IP Based interfaces to banks now Yeah I've worked there And uh You see protocols you never heard of Before and afterwards I mean like 100 customers out there using it It's like The effort to support them is just like Internet banking for So many people And it's like the top 100 For the people Top 100 customers Online banking For private bank So there's plenty going on that Um If you can hook into those To those new middlewares Then that's a good start But um I'm not I'm more Talking my own issues here That actually nerd bank but You're alive to this day I see nerd bank as a medication The nerds would not Take a snake in it It's all talked about web of trust On That's a web of risk And you cannot do this When you don't do A classical 19th century Co-op You use hot glue technology To secure the whole thing To basically It will never run When the participants won't take a snake Won't be at risk Well It won't never run Of course you can sell the whole thing To go to the bank And they will be They will bat the Real surface of course At a price And then you are just expanding them Maybe fine as well But There are people Making a fortune on this And Um It's basically the real version 3.51 Service peg 4 Something like that Every single time You see the same thing You talk to them What you're doing Every single time You see the same stuff Transaction is the transaction There's no difference It's always going to be Center, receiver Some amount And a short statement What the transaction is used for And we have At least 100 different implementations Running in the current business Right now And the situation is getting worse Because more people are pushing Into the market So it's getting better Because you have more than Other solutions for the same problem But you know what that means And no one is Ever able to Figure out what the other story was Because there's too many different systems To do the same thing Too many different bands to do the same thing And all these bands, they have multiple systems To do the same thing And Inside those organizations There's people telling their bosses That they will make, they figure out What's going on And they have this new project And it's database mining and everything And they all fail And it's part of this And it looks absurd And they have to pull it out And it just gets more complex Actually I've seen Some of the stuff I've seen Is shelf wear It's like budget of A two digit Million number figure Budget and then they just look at it And they're like, I don't know how the Marketing situation is going to be in three months So I'm waiting till I know that Goodbye We've been doing overtime Last half year To meet this deadline And you don't know what you want to do with it It's like, you paid for it? So We have to figure out Some of the minds of all of this product And what you see To resist this Is just imagine a couple more Alternatives and sell them Right And you have really big numbers It's way beyond Strong crypto What's happening in the normal financial Service Well From the side of Building actual applications Is just flowing you down It's extremely You want to be efficient I just Bro I just want to do things that are fun And figuring out how to read a Cobalt data track Out of a machine That stores three pieces of information That should be on other servers But, and they have Your complete information except for This tiny attribute you need And you know it's going to cost you Three months just to know The zip code, no, what was it That's what's so cool about all these big institutions With all of them Someone in the late 60s or early 70s Decided how to do it And then be quick And know what else to understand How this particular piece Of data ended up in that particular Place But no one dares to move it Because they have no way of figuring out What's going to happen when they do So they don't Peralize They're not threatening anything Yes they are I've seen the systems That they're going to put in Within the next few years In all there's a A really big retail organization They control like 40% of the retail market And they are the third biggest retailer in the world They have They invented something two years ago Which they call the bonus card It's a card you get as a barcode And it identifies You as a customer If you carry that card And you show it at the scanning Gets registered In every shop they have You get Specific discounts on people who won't Which means that every Dutch person Has a card like that So all types of people Agree To Fill out a form Stake in their marital status And blah blah blah blah Connect it to the barcode And show it every time they go shopping At each shop It's very clear You have a different grade You have this one world national And it knows everything about all its clients I see If you grade it to get some alternatives People have to send me their personal information For far less I see There's a complete DNA They don't know how to do anything With that They announced By last year's summer They will start offering clients Personalize discount offers They still haven't done that Because they don't know how to do it They just get someone's data And it's so chaotic That They have no way to figure out What the right offer would be The way I see it The problem is pointing at boss management It doesn't matter I mean, yeah The second, somewhere here We try to clear some certain concepts There, you have the chaos Of an international organization It just starts up out of principle Well, it's so chaotic Of an open source system With many folks And many diverging Development It would happen It would be an even bigger mess Everybody's invited to They're invited to kind of Swapping card service Like There's a hobby For those people They all say they Just to mess up what you do Yeah, it's such a car We have also one Of course I can buy a car You know my P-chain My P-chain My P-chain My P-chain That's not a dozen times of that That's 2.5% of those people Think it is Interesting way of resistance To swap these cards So The database You're out of the hell you are doing I don't realize 15% of those people Are occasionally Shopping for their neighbors 20% of those people Have 3 cards in the household Because They Didn't realize that they would get all the copies So the people that do the shopping All get their own target Different number And a couple of other reasons Why everything packs up all the time If you talk to A normal household bank organization And I do this because They pay me lots of money I got two banks That are responsible for About 60% of my asset on income They don't know a shit They are really stupid like this It's pretty hard to explain And my job is to explain them What the works I was not good for And distance to the reasons In the process The main thing Is that they are not stupid They pay a lot of confidence In themselves That's when you ask a normal bank How many of your clients Who have bank accounts with other banks They don't know They just don't know They think that If someone has a bank account With me A spark of la la la A spark of la la la Thinks that it's the primary bank account Of the customer has It's not true On average people have two bank accounts But those organizations are not able To understand this concept Of an independent customer So they think that they are A power and start interpreting their data On the basis of this assumption Which means that their expectations Are Other failures all the time So the question is Another thing that is That organizational chaos is stupidity That protects us from all of The things we fear Far more than a nerd bank And if you start doing a nerd bank You will discover that The only way to do it Is to establish something stupid And be an organization I'd love to try To get back on whatever The topic was I mean like Is it the privacy issue Is it just Using only some software Because that's cool Or is it Founding your own bank Out of the nerd community What would be a cool thing also Interesting All three go together Because We don't have yet An institution For people who like to think about These things Who like not to be treated As Stupid Who do not want to be protected From the complexities Open interfaces May offer Do you know bank which allows you To transact with it So you can So that I can do Some funny things with my bank Yeah, so that's a real lack Talking about privacy This is trying to get some fans Talking about privacy issue Would be Some things, some other way To achieve the same goal If you just want Everything under one roof Open source Community project, privacy And a cool project And some things that you have to go Offshore And just on the bank You have 10 million Marks Anybody Miking to I think the client's Serving implications Are easiest to Implement right from the beginning So this thing can grow and become More complex Another question is How do you go down here Of your own money Like in cybercash Like in networks Do you just want to be a bank First and offer accounts First and think about Giving out money Now that the current idea Was that we do not Give out that kind of accounts Yes Private bills It's something that somebody So if you call the money It has to be very funny So to summarize What we'd like to offer Is a bank Which does money transfers And offers Open interfaces So everybody Who likes Can Grow their own applications To use this It is sort of especially Attractive To computer folks But it also could be extended To a more general audience So It's a country to set up a bank And place somebody in there As server and then go for it Without a structure on top of this The middleware Is not within Acceptable There are many words that fit in here Well basically If I don't feel comfortable with How I get to David Then I am proper Any transactions Does actually anybody Have experience in setting up Small countries This is a real question to the audience You just sell us the virtual barrier Quit there Excuse me I just quit there It wasn't your workshop It was there I meant to be using interesting customers Anyway So Maybe it's not fun to repeat This experience Do you find it with proof? Do you catch it with proof? Do you catch it with water? No Do you catch it with water? No Basically Nobody wanted to use it Because there was like Making e-cash And 2,000 people having e-cash There's got to be a major deal going on A market share And just say let's agree on this And just open it up wide open And try to view


Hello, welcome to the Judge Ben Show. My name is Ben Joseph. I'm a retired Vermont Superior Court judge. This is a program in which I interview people about issues of concern in Vermont. I've done several recently about the domestic violence and sexual assault. And today is another interview in this series. My guest today is Chris Wookins, who's the director of an organization called Voices Against Violence, which helps people in Franklin and Grand Isle Counties. I wanted to say before I start talking to Chris that during the show, we've arranged to have 800 numbers projected on the screen for both domestic violence and sexual assault. And if you're in a county outside of Chittenden, you could contact the organization that serves victims and provides information about these crimes just by dialing that 800 number. And you will automatically be connected to the program in your county that serves people who have these problems. I'm very grateful to Towneeting TV for providing this service. And I hope that we'll do some good through getting people more information. Chris, are you the director of Voices Against Violence? Yes, I am. And just in broad terms, what is Voices Against Violence? Sure, we're an organization. We're actually a program of Champlain Valley Office of Economic Opportunity, otherwise known as CBOEO. So there are fiscal provider. And Voices serves Franklin and Grand Isle County. And we provide services to families impacted by domestic violence, sexual assault and stalking. And to adults and children as well. We provide a whole array of services under that umbrella. And we've been around since 1980 in various forms. But we have a shelter facility. We have we provide children's services. We provide help with legal services, although I got to say we're not attorneys, but we do provide assistance in that area. We do have a transitional housing program as part of our housing services. And we have we do education and prevention work. And we also have a program called All About Kids, which is a program that provides supervised visitation for families, again, that are impacted by domestic and sexual violence. You do it a lot. I wanted to ask you, has the has the COVID business and the lockdowns and all that stuff had an effect on your business? Oh, it absolutely has. You know, it's really changed how we provide our services when we when this first happened last spring and we realized that we had to kind of lock down and staff went remote and that's something we had never experienced before. So we had to quickly decide, you know, figure out how we were going to do that. We had to buy equipment to do that. We had our hotline on going through an answering service 24 seven. So we wouldn't miss any calls. But we had to really look at how we were providing services and how people can access us when they were in their homes and they weren't able to leave. Was it safe to make a phone call? Was it safe to use their computer? Those kinds of things. So we tried to expand access to our program. We besides the hotline, we started a chat line so people can go on our website and actually just have conversations. Very safe conversations, encrypted conversations with us. And once we're done, those conversations go away. So there's no way to be able to go back, you know, for anyone to see any information. So that's one thing we're looking at, perhaps starting a text line. So there's a lot of different ways that we're looking to access, you know, be be more accessible to people that are either, you know, in their homes, they can't reach out. They're in very rural areas and they can't come in because we're not seeing people face to face right now, except we were seeing them in court. But even the court has gone totally virtual at this point. That's that's really, well, that's a home other issue. But that's a concern. Yes. How many people do you have working in voices against violence? Currently, we have 11 staff. Good. And we have, which doesn't include, we have an MSW, excuse me, MSW intern from UVM with us this year as well. So the master of social work, army, MSW, master in social work. Master in social work. Yes. OK. And so you you help people with housing if they're not safe where they're living. Is that the idea? Yes, yes, we can do that. We, as I mentioned, we have it. We have a shelter facility. It's called Lori's House. And right now we we have only three bedrooms available. And because of COVID, we, you know, we have to socially distance. We can only put one family in each room. So our census is down and shelter, certainly. But we also have a contract with the state to provide housing, overflow housing in hotels, local hotels. So we have agreements with with a couple of hotels in the area that we can put people up in hotels for shorter periods of time. And then hopefully we can move them into shelter and then go from there. So housing is a big service that we do provide. Yes. And this is provided not just to a woman who's been a victim, but to her children as well. Absolutely. Absolutely. Yes. Because I think in the past, in my dealings with some of these things the concerns about housing have really prevented people from making a complaint because they don't have anywhere to go. Right. So if they've got some place to go, it's more likely they can reach out to you. Absolutely. You know, that's that's the problem that happened in COVID. People weren't even able to get out to make that phone call to say that we need to get out. So we're seeing, you know, for a while there, those numbers went down a little bit. Those calls went down, but now we're we're seeing them go back up again. Unfortunately, we just don't have the housing stock in our area. Well, I think in the whole state of Vermont, for that matter, but in our area, particularly, we don't have a lot of housing stocks. So and the cost of housing is has gone up continually. So people are stuck, you know, even if they do leave and they don't have, you know, if they don't have a job, they don't have any way income coming in. It's very difficult for them to be able to support long term housing. We do have a transitional housing program, which is very helpful. We have five apartments that we provide to survivors so they can stay in those apartments for up to two years. And during that time, we work with them on building, building ways in which they can support housing, moving forward, whether that's, you know, through employment or we help them get, you know, assistance through housing vouchers and and help them create credit and landlord references and things like that that will help them in, you know, securing safe and affordable housing in the future. I was told recently that a half of the homicide committed in Vermont during 2020 took place in domestic violence situations. So that's true. Yes, that's true. Chris, I didn't want to Chris, I did want to ask you about court orders and things like this that you might be able to what kind of court orders can you get to help people in this situation? Well, we work with people who one of the services we provide is to help people if they are interested in getting a relief from abuse order or straining order protection order, they're called many different things. So we can help them with that. Again, that process has changed because of COVID. So we used to be able to meet people in person, help them with the paperwork because it can be a bit confusing and help them kind of form their thoughts so they can write down what is actually happening to them and why they need protection so that, you know, it's easy for the judge to look at and, you know, determine. But again, that's being done remotely. So at this point, folks wanting to apply for relief from abuse order call they during the day, during the week, they can go to the courthouse and in and right in the vestibule there, they can pick up the paperwork and take it with them and then they can fill it out. And then when that's done, they take it back and leave it at the courthouse. Are you able to provide help to them in doing that? Over the phone, yes, because, again, we're not seeing people in person. So we can we can help them over the phone. And you can't you can't walk to the courthouse with them. We know we generally don't do that. But if rare occasions when something happens that somebody needs needs to see us in person, I mean, we're starting to do that a little bit. Then we'll try to make that happen. But after hours is difficult because they have to call the after hours line and they're talking to a court clerk and the court clerk is helping them fill out the form. And we're not part of that process because it's all done by phone. So what you do, you can talk to them before they make the call. So they know, yes, yes, yes, we can go through the we can go through the form or even, you know, afterwards if they have questions, you know, we certainly can call the court clerk does make those referrals to us for sure. But it just, you know, adds a little layer of difficult. Well, I think it's very important that people know that they can have assistance going through all the steps that might have to absolutely. Yeah, it's a really daunting process, you know, for people that that want to do that. You know, it's I think the civil legal process is pretty daunting. And it's difficult for people to grasp that. So, you know, it is we're there to, you know, answer any questions they may have. We also have a legal aid attorney working with us. So she can actually help people and represent them in court during those hearings. Oh, that that's very important. Yeah, if the other party is represented or if the case is particularly difficult, she can be there to help. So she's there every Monday in Franklin County when the when the relief from these hearings are and we provide a legal clinic every month so people can call and get, you know, sign up for an hour or half hour of her time and can ask any questions that they may have. It could it could be around protection orders or it could be around custody, divorce, you know, assets, things like that. So we try to provide as much information to folks as possible. It's a big thing. Yeah, it is. It is huge. And sometimes we do it twice a month because we have such a need for it. And now we're looking at maybe doing it once a week to help people so that we can touch base with people before they go for their final RFA hearings, RFA, meaning relief from abuse, relief from abuse orders. Yes. Well, do you find do you find that these orders are effective? They can be absolutely.  Oftentimes, survivors ask us, well, you know, is this going to work?   I think for for a lot of people, they do work. It's again, it's a piece of paper, but for some that piece of paper is enough to keep them from continuing to do a piece of paper that orders them to stay out of the house. Yes. Yes. Yes. And stay away from the house. It can order them to not abuse, not be in contact, no third party contact, those kinds of things. Oh, well, that's that's that's very important. It is when I've dealt with these cases in the past, I was always concerned about the children because I think that the children who live in an atmosphere with this domestic violence, it's just it's just destructive and it stays with them for years. And these orders allow them to include their children. It's part of that protection. Well, that's that's, you know, well, it's important. Do you have do you have contacts with the with the police? Yeah. Oh, yes. We have a good relationship with with all the police departments in our two county area. We actually have a a project with the St. Albans Police Department right now called the LAP, which is the Lethality Assessment Program. And it's a it's a program developed by a coalition in another state. And it is supported by the federal government through funding. And so we work with them to provide training. And then when police officers officers go to the scene of a domestic assault, they can determine what the risk level is for that particular situation. So they have basically a checklist and they have questions that they ask and then they check them off. And if there's the score is a certain amount that may trigger a call to us. So they call our hotline and then the survivor on the scene can talk with one of our advocates and work out a plan or just provide support or or say we'll follow up the next day, whatever they need. If they need shelter, then we would bring them into shelter or hotel room. So it's not a situation in which the police officer can leave and then the woman gets beaten again. I mean, that we hope not. Obviously, if the person leaves, you know, the person perpetrating the violence leaves or is arrested or whatever. And if not, then, you know, we may help her find some someplace safe to go. I think safety is so important. I think we're worried about safety is the big the big issue. You know, obviously, most of the victims here are women and they they're worried that they'll be beaten as a consequence of complaining. Right. Right. So if there's some way to guarantee safety, I think that's a key issue. Absolutely. I mean, that that's the basic, you know, one of the basic services we provide is safety, support and, you know, connecting to resources. So those are really some key goals of our program. Oh, it's very important. I think this is important throughout the state of the organizations that provide these services, I think face the same thing day in day out.  There are, you know, 15 programs throughout the state that are part of the Vermont network against domestic and sexual violence. So every county or every region has a program that they can connect with. We're we offer the same basic services. Some things are different, but some programs don't have shelters, some some do. And but we're all, you know, basically providing the same services. Well, I think that housing is a very key service. You know, yes, it is something that. Well, you know, if there's someone who's a victim of domestic violence, if they call the 800 number on the screen, they can find out what's available in the county where they live. Right. That's correct. I tried it just as an experiment. I found the 800 number in Bingo. I was connected to your program. Oh, OK, good. Good. It works. I can assure you that it works. It's good. OK. And so you actually do provide a service where you can actually go with a victim when they have to go to court. Yes, not currently, because there are no person hearings. But yes, you anticipate that the court visits will will begin again. I hope so. I think, you know, they went strictly virtual after the holidays, I think, and to try to avoid any spikes happening. So I'm hopeful that it will open up. It's just it makes it so much easier when we can be there face to face and providing that support for folks. Thank you for what you're doing. I think it's so important, just so important. I think the consequences, you know, to the to the victims, and especially to the children can be so far reaching. It can be something to follow the kids for years. And we we just have we just received we're working on a project that is actually really promoting some services for for children and working with our local mental health program and therapists in the in the region to provide some short term intervention for kids and moms that are experiencing domestic and sexual violence. So we're excited to be part of that project as well. Moving forward. Well, so you work with the police. You work with other programs. You you absolutely you can really reach out. And depending upon the case, it depends on what services are needed. Right. And you've got a lot available to draw from. We can't do this work alone. That's for sure. And we don't want to. So we do work with our community partners on, you know, to provide holistic services for sure. Gosh, gosh, gosh, gosh. How many of these complaints do you think you get in the course of a year?  Of course, yeah. Certainly, but generally, you know, we see probably between 500 and 550 unduplicated people a year that we provide services to. And that includes that actually does not include children. That's adult survivors, you know, at about 100, 250 children of those folks that we work with. But if you add the children that are impacted by the violence and the abuse, then we're talking, you know, a much bigger number. But so that that's probably, you know, what we do, we do about a hundred. You know, I'm trying to think about 1500, 1600 hotline calls a year. That we receive. So it's yeah, I think every year it's it's growing. We see more and more to alcohol and drugs of anything to do with the growth of these things. We definitely we definitely see that. We see the intersection of, you know, domestic and sexual violence, mental health and substance use for sure. It is oftentimes, you know, you know, survivors may use substances to numb the pain that they're experiencing, but they also can be drawn into that by the person that's causing them harm. It may be something that, you know, want that a perpetrator may use as a form of control. If they use alcohol or use drugs to get that person to use that, so then they have that control over that person by providing the drugs. Or oh, we see it in a lot of different different ways, and which is why we really work very closely with our substance use programs and our mental health, because it really it's just, you know, it's the intersection of all of those and trauma and more trauma people experience, the more that that can happen for them. So you can reach out to organizations and enlist their help with a survivor. Absolutely. Absolutely. Absolutely. We follow a harm reduction model and we work, you know, we work with people. You know, it doesn't mean they have to be sober to get our services, not at all. They could, you know, continue to be using. It may be a safety mechanism for them at that point. So we really work with people where they're at when they come to us for services. And it's this, these conversations and these things you're doing, they're confidential, I take it. Absolutely. Absolutely. We have very strict confidentiality statutes at the state level, but also at the federal level, the Violence Against Women Act prohibits us from giving out any information without the express permission of the survivor. And our confidentiality forms, release forms are, you know, noted for that so we can't give out any information unless the person wants us to. Are there any resources you feel you should have in addition to what you're already doing now or the more that people could. That's a good question. Well, I'm just worried about, you know, about government services. I just think it's it's a difficult thing. Yes, it is. I, you know, I as a director, I always worry about funding, whether we're going to have enough to do the work. You know, we could have more staff because the need is there. And I'm particularly concerned next year after the COVID funds, the CARES money came through to help. But what next year is going to look like, I don't know, revenues are going to be down in the state and that's going to impact our state funding. So I do think about that. So obviously more resources in that area would be helpful.   We, you know, there's a group of us that meet twice a week now since since the pandemic started, just to talk about housing and going forward with housing authorities and what it's going to look like and how we can get more subsidized housing or even housing stock in our area. So that's that's a huge issue that it's going to be. And if those activities led you to find work with hotels, I mean, you you. Yes, yes, yeah. Yeah, so because we just don't have it. But the good news is that we are going to be expanding our shelter. We're going to be adding two more bedrooms. One of the things that we did this year in the midst of covid is to move some of the staff out of our where the shelter was and so that we could expand it and add some more bedrooms. So we're hoping I think within the next month to have those bedrooms available. It will help us again with social distancing. We can't bring a lot of people in, but we're trying to, you know, at least have a couple more options for folks that maybe can't stay in a hotel or have animals because we're a pet friendly shelter and they can't have pets in hotels. And we know that survivors when they if when they leave want to bring their pets with them because those pets are in danger as well. And we want to be able to help that. So we do take pets and shelter as well. Well, you're terrific. Thank you for what you're doing. I think it really is important. A number of people that I've seen in court who have had a difficult childhood. It just it happens so often. It's just very, very sad. Well, Chris, I want to thank you. I think it's really vital what you're doing. I hope that I hope that people see this and those who need it can take advantage of your services. Well, I thank you and I thank you for all your work that you've done. Well, it helped victims over the years as well. Well, you know, thank you. Thank you. I don't compare myself to you. That's for sure. Thanks. Thanks again. Thank you. So long. Thanks for looking in. Well, you may be seeing some other programs on the subject soon, I hope. Bye.


Good to everybody forced and Donnie here ripping 20 23 prism football hobby. You've got six box half-k or I have the wrong thing open here. You're six box half case number six There it is. Sorry guys. I had the wrong list open. I was looking at I was looking at another break for like later They had that list open. Mmm. Mmm. Not good This is six box half case number six. There we go. Okay, Adam H. Chiefs At a different Adam H. Adam H a chiefs Adam H you Ravens Billy with the Cowboys Brandon I Patriots Charles F. Rams Chris V Jets Chuck D Falcons Dave D. Niners Harper with the Colts Jason B. Dolphins Jeffrey H. Steelers Lions and Raiders Jeremy H with the Vikings Haysus T. Texans John S. Packers Josh and Jaguars Matthew G. Bills Matthew B. Cardinals Matthias Browns Max O. Giants Nicholas U. Saints Nicholas O. with the Seahawks Phil Panthers Ray Eagles Robert R. Bears Ryan P. Washington Scott T. Bucks Sean M. Titans Seth Bangles Tau Lynn Chargers and Victor with the Broncos. Good luck everybody The last daytime half case Lane and Jayce will have spots left off in the NatX live And B didn't win the VP last year didn't he? He did. He did. Okay Who was the guy in second that people were talking about? Nikola Yolkich. Yeah, that's what I was thinking. Oh, yeah Shane is that is that so most lamentations deserve from a distance? Hey, it might be true. It might be true Silver fireworks B. John for the Falcons. Deuce Vaughn Cowboys rookie autograph Deuce Kincaid and Ivan Pace blue ice Vikings Harrison Smith number two ninety nine Charbonne and Rashi rice rookies Silver Tampa Bay Mike Evans green scope for the Broncos. Majae P. Rhine is seventy five Mingo and Christian Gonzalez Risen flashback Bryce Young Panthers. Nice. Nice card Panthers Orange a 249 Higby Rams Tajah Spears and Tui Tui Palotto Silver rookie for the Bengals chase Brown purple ice rookie commanders Chris Rodriguez, Jr. That is numbered 162 of 225 Nolan Smith CJ Stroud rookie base Yeah, I might be true to that might be true to Shane changes the Ambo carrier for the rest of the squad Gold we got a true gold. We have a true gold. We got a jet like green and white Ready Jed sauce Gardner gold sauce Six out of ten congrats jets Magdad for your jets great gold Jaren Hall and Luke's schoonmaker Gold sauce, baby gold sauce charismatic silver kill for the Niners red wave to 149 and joku Browns a chan rookie and over shown Pull the Renfro and an earth's gold in that last break three boxer. That's crazy, right a Petri lockdown green scopes act Thomas Dolphins is seventy five on dickie Ozama's a flowers to 25 that is a Jason Seahorn Navy camo auto the Giants have just a ton of vet stuff in this We've definitely had the most Giants. Yeah, non rookie autos today Jane Reed Kenny like probably doubled up the field It's been nuts Jane Reed and Mackintosh there Yeah, you got him. Oh Still fly boxes to purple power Niners Debo Samuel out of 49 Clinton Johnston Bryce young There's that a Cooper Dijon out of Iowa. He's gonna be he's probably a safety though Yeah, are there any corners in the NFL that are Silver Jags Trevor Lawrence. I don't even know 249 Bengals Joe Burrow in the orange color match Clifford and Skronsky Edelman played corner for a bit Here's on some defensive snaps hyper Herbert Chargers out of 175 doos fawn and Jalen Carter Now reads read the safety. He sometimes comes down on plays, but he mostly plays safety It's kind of weird why I like the White defensive players they play safe you but not corner Don't move as well. I guess I guess not Speaking of moving Move these cards blue ice portals Anthony Richardson. That is sick. That looks cool. That is actually fire I'm mad at that 59 of 99 Grats on that Don if you don't make that card What for say it we're on camera say it I don't care that you broke you won't even know that you don't know vine No, never mind. Can't say it then blue wave rookie Musgrave out of 199 Packers Harrison and Vijon Pro they're not knowing vine. I automatically disable force comebacks Because they don't matter Red wave to 149 von Miller bills Porta and weather spoon picked up a pack of everyone slid down on top of that Okay, very efficient I see silver JK Dobbins Ravens with a Zach Thomas. That's pretty cool flashback purple power auto Dolphins surprise not a giant 13 of 49 Dolphin Zach Thomas beast Chase Brown Kendra Miller RPA coming up. Here we go second RPA of the day Prison break silver JSN Seahawks With a Chase Brown than 99 rookie Jersey autograph for the Bengals Smith and jigba and Bigsby Richardson prison break for the Colts blue eyes Bijan Robinson Number 37 of 99 99 sounded like a Blink-82 right there Tom DeLonge nice Bijan that's sick 37 and 99 will get that magged Van Ness and Kansy Purple eyes 225 Derek Forrest for the commanders Deontay banks down TV on wicks silver Nick folk for the Titans Hyper Christian Watson for the Packers out of 175. Yeah. Yeah, the Abbey Elijah Dotson got silver Travis Kelsie chiefs Biggest Seahawks. It was probably the axis of the Jigba rookie Jersey. Oh, yeah, probably it's a 99 It's a nothing crazy silver Kelsey chiefs Navy camo chiefs Marquez Valdes scantling We're 14 of 25 DTR and about a Canada all purpose McCaffrey orange a 249 Jalen Thompson Cardinals Zach Harrison camp Smith Orange wave to 60 Nick Bosa Niners Nick Boisa 44 of 60 will McDonald Luke Musgraves Silver rookie Falcons Bijan Robinson Purple eyes rookie Jordan Addison with a color match 124 out of 225 Minnesota, that's a sick one as well for Jeremy H Let's get that bag for Jeremy Vonn H and and Marguerite over shown love the color match on that card Man, it's not Thursday Don't pop eyes or something. No buckle off red waves Chronic to two 149 for the Rams. I won't get one for us and they already come cold. It's perfect Oh, yeah, they definitely do serve food at room temperature gotta give it to them.  I've always heard like people diss on PSA because of their slabs don't work with the cards But I don't know that's what I've heard box number three They've got 10 box basketball break tonight get that one filled on up Just a few PYT spots after but Lane's live right now with Affinatic slide with more bricks on that link India in the chat Silver Emergent Ramon Dre. That is a Wes Welker auto for the Patriots that have 99 nice hit Pats Flashback auto blue ice Mingo and Gonzalez PSA is not the best I'd probably go back, but you can go wherever you want really silver hype is to a dolphin's origin to 49 Devontae Smith Eagles I Believe as you see does thicker cards change. I don't know how thick they go on the on the point thickness Jane Reed But I'll do at least 130. I think but they're like limit is Purple Power rookie Stetson Bennett to 49 Rams Spears in two below two Silver Patrick Peterson Steelers hyper to 175 Debo Niners Nolan Smith CJ Stroud Flashback a rookie prism is Jameer Gibbs for Detroit Nice Gibby Purple Bolton to 125 chiefs Jaren Hall and schoonmaker Silver rookie Anton Harrison Jaguars with a Navy camo rookie Clayton Tune Cardinals rookie QB 4 of 25 go Darius Davis Dorian Williams. She's pretty fair Or to consider them harsh. It's hard to get a 10. Yeah, no matter as it should be other gold Another gold Donnie Wow another gold chat. Whoa And it is the Vante Adams Wow who gold 10 of 10 on the book and sick Tay But the Raiders this time around man, we had the auto last time we had Raiders Jeffrey age with Vegas Or just gold Jeffery ready to get that magged Beast K-Shop butte Marvin Mims blue wave out of 199 Brian Dawkins Eagles Johnson Bryce young First beat off to see at least that I've heard Definitely a silver numbered Purple to 125 Travelling Williams Bengals who spawned Jalen Carter Silver Preston Smith Packers orange rookie Deontay banks out of 249 for the Giants Kincaid and pace Blue wave rookie Clayton Tune out of 199 Cardinals their tune Charbonne and Rishi rice silver miles Garrett Browns Another Mike All-Stott to 75 green scope auto for the Bucks. He is like a fourth All-Stott auto We pulled all day today Bucks this time got Scott T Clifford and Skoronski. All right halfway through good break going here. Just keep golds Going golds Blue wave to 199 Jets Quinn Williams Charbonne and Rishi rice Silver Jets rookie Israel Vana Kanda orange rookie Jack Campbell to 249 Detroit Mingo and Gonzalez Blue wave to 199 bears Eddie Jackson banks and wigs Silver fireworks Stroud for the Texans Red wave rookie Colts Anthony Richardson Number 93 of 149 To numbered Richardson's in the break congrats again to Harper red wave this time we'll get that in the mag of course Chase players in the whole sets. Yeah. Yeah, the Abbey Elijah Dotson Purple Breeze Hall for the Jets out of 125 Donald and Musgrave Silver for the bills Josh Allen. That is a Eagles rookie autograph Nolan Smith. Nice It's on a chain tomorrow bit over shown Johnny only says nice Eagles cards. Yep rigged Rigged rigged orange D'Neal Hunter at a 249 for the Vikings. Nice DK was almost a flowers All right, this guy Yep, check this been up for a little while now. I think she's a link Silver to offer the dolphins blue wave to 199 Josh Palmer Chargers Jadon re Kenny McIntosh Aaron Donald on the lockdown purple rookie Jake Hainer going to the Saints It's 125 Yeah, yeah, I've had it up all day. Yeah, I think yeah They started put it up yesterday like during the day because I saw like the bass set and the autos I didn't see the inserts though yesterday during the day Bryce young Little late those you were everyone's First off the line for like a week right No color blasts yet or mangas silver emergent to March Chase bangles Sean Clifford rookie red wave auto packers at 149. Hey red. There we go. Clifford. That's a big red Clifford right there Prison break JSN orange Quinn Williams jets out of 249 Sauce Gardner and Devonte Adams golds use von Jalen Carter Silver for the Niners got to Sean Gibson purple eyes von Miller number to 225 bills Kincaid and pace Last two you guys Lincoln chat right now for fanatics live with Lane teams on sale three box PYT's Few more PYT's available for tonight, but spots are slim for tonight over here very slim there are Prism spots 13 23 total prism teams left for tonight and a Flawless basketball mixer tonight our last box of flawless basketball Orange number to 249 Browns rookie Cedric Tillman. There's a La Porta Devon Weatherspoon Portals silver Joe Burrow bangles with a Dorian Thompson Robinson Browns rookie autograph You be there Chase Brown Kendra Miller purple eyes Kurt Warner out of 225 going to the Rams Van Ness and Kansy orange wave here After a silver Jiu-Jitsu for the Pats is rookie Dalton Buffalo, that's a good one there 29 of 60 on the Kincaid Escart bills DTR and About a Canada good stuff for Buffalo there. We got purple power coming up After all-purpose Mahomes is a purple power of Alvin Kamara Saints number to 49 Harrison and cam Smith. I'm gonna go outside and breathe fresh fresh air after this Donnie Silver rookie event Ness for the Packers purple eyes Jordan Brooks to 225 Seahawks Smith and Jigba and Tank Bigsby another orange wave After Portals pick it it's an orange wave of Desmond the King now for the Steelers out of 60 nice eight of 60 Steelers Holland Brents silver fireworks cheetah dolphins Purple eyes Khalil Shakira bills out of 225 Jake Hainer, Jameer Gibbs rookies Flashback Kenneth Walker the third for Seattle Good running back there Seattle got hyper rookie Chase Brown out of 175 bangles Evans and Charlie Jones Silver for Denver John L. Way That's the Marvin Overshown rookie auto for the Cowboys Hyatt and Emmanuel Wilson red wave here is gonna be Derek Forrest jr. For Washington that's number to 149 Terry Wilson Cedric Tillman Silver is Pacheco chiefs Purple to 125 burns for the Panthers Number 59 of 125 Anton Harrison and Bijan Robinson the last prism box of the daytime stream over here Lane and Jay are still live on fanatics live guys. There's three box PYT's ripping right now teams are marked down Nattox live with Lane and Jay It's like they just filled up one. They've got another one pinned right now seven 18 teams left on there You got teams like the Ravens The Eagles are still there get them Donnie Titans Yeah, okay chiefs the Raiders Nice teams us from cheaper teams left to Three bucks are like 69 bucks.  Yep Orange mile standards of 249 going to Carolina Eagle legend So then jigba tank bakes be thank y'all for the break today the much-appreciated silver emerging carrot Wilson jets Blue wave the one that an iterator for the Falcon it's Banks and wicks Snake skin Okay Snake skin So we're time snake skin Yay of Davis Mills for the Texans Davis mill snake skin Texans Case hit parallel orange Chargers Kenan Allen at 249. It's cool to see stroud there. Not gonna lie. I Didn't want to say or Adele Stroud or Adele would have been whoo. Yeah, that would have been Exciting Whenever any strouds anything pulled yet Silver Emmett Smith Cowboys a Daniel Clarwell senator's autograph Good kicker there. Well, McDonald Musgrave There's probably a lot of this being ripped. So I'm pretty sure there's probably a snake skin Dell or it's tough though because it's maybe either or but it's tough because it's the entire 400 card checklist on the parallels. So yeah, that's a good point. Yeah, Spencer. You think so? Future future Probably once golf is on with the Lions like they'll get him and he'll be pretty good. That's what happened with golf, right? Pretty much. Yeah, prismatic Bryce young blue wave Never got okay, okay, okay for the Giants to win that I was yeah, so that's what I'm saying. It is Devon H and Marvin overshown.  What are we doing? Silver Texans Petrie hyper London out of 175 for the Falcons just tell me yours. So I know it did not do that one Zama got flowers Dude Jason fanatics chat. You're over here.  Obviously. It's just really weird seeing it the uniform Yeah, I don't even think he's the backup, right? Who would be the backup? Pretty sure it's the backup. I have no idea. I Don't know most backups in the NFL to be honest silver prismatic Tyree killed dolphins followed by The John Robinson forest camo rookie autograph 25 of 25 that's cool One of the probably the best auto of the day I would say I would Shuck with the birds the birds down south 30 birds That's fire. Love that camo. Okay, so the camo autos are Regular forest camo, but the all-star was Navy. I don't know dude. I don't anymore I might just be because that was on the insert or set. Maybe that's it. That's fire. Good grats on that That's nasty big big time B John's today Great break for the Balkans, right? Yeah, then blue ice base earlier Quentin Johnson Bryce young Overall, this is probably the most space style break with like big cars today And a fun one and a phone to close it out during the day here hyper nice Jaden Reed there He's coming on strong for the Packers Dude's kind of like a do-it-all kind of receiver. It's 175 a small but The ball in the open field he makes he makes some moves happen. Yeah, Clifford and Skaronsky you score like twice the other week Yeah, almost like a reverse or something. Yeah, the jet sweeps.  So if he can get become a rounder, maybe he can be like like him like him Purple to 125 Jamo for the Lions He's fondling card. He's like a minor league of Tyree kill. Yeah, you can be like Tyree kill at home When you said it like that was a lot more fun Tyree killed like We're like a Percy Harvin, maybe Orange rookie Bennett to 249 Rams Kincaid pace so he went he went to Michigan State. I Don't know man. Drew Stanton went to Michigan State Spencer I really selling me on that Although so did Kirk Cousins silver rookie is Dotson for the Chargers Kirk Cousins is like the Michigan State guy Yeah, let me go in Bell as well Purple eyes Furious George out of 225 chiefs Charbonnet and Rishi rice. Oh Hey, it is a recap Could ace Hey, dude, he was good. He's good Want to ring auto game winning touchdown against the best I guess regular season team of all time the Seven Patriots got the winning touchdown against them.  He kind of went off All right, here we go. Snake skin mills Flashback Bryce Young numbered cards of Tillman Miles Sanders Keenan Allen Quinn and Williams Daniel Hunter Jack Campbell Stetson Bennett the fourth Deontay banks Devontae Smith Jalen Thompson Joe Burrow Tyler Higbee Vaughan Miller George Carloftus Khalil Shakir Jordan Brooks Kurt Warner Stefan Gilmore Derrick Forrest Jr. Chris Rodriguez Jr. Clayton Tune Eddie Jackson Quinn and Williams Desmond Ritter Bobby. Oh, okay Josh Palmer Brian Dawkins Luke Musgrave God Debo Jaden Reed Drake London Chase Brown Christian Watson and Justin Herbert We have Derek Forrest Jr. Vaughan Miller Ben Scoronic David and Joku Breeze Hall Jameson Williams Brian Burns Jake Hainer JV on Williams Nick Bolton Harrison Smith Zach Thomas Smage P. Ryan Dalton Kincaid orange wave is a nice one for Buffalo Desmond King and Nick Bosa purple powers of Stetson Bennett Alvin Camara Debo Samuel Navy camos Clayton Tune and Marcus Valdes scantling All right autos of Daniel Carlson Marvin Overshown Doreen Thompson Robinson Nolan Smith use Vaughan Sean Clifford Chase Brown rookie Jersey auto So 99 West Welker flashback auto all-star flashback auto same with Zach Thomas and a Jason Seahorn Navy Camo auto here So I'm guessing the camo is different on if it's like a insert of the base set orders Okay, we had a purple ice Addison awesome color match to 225 Minnesota The portals blue ice Richardson the 99 Colts Bijan Ricky to 99 and the blue ice for the Falcons red wave Anthony Richardson Colts out of 149 Camo rookie auto Bijan Robinson great hit Atlanta love that guard 25 to 25 Two golds Devonte Adams Raiders and sauce gardener for the Jets that does it. Thanks again everybody