So we'll call this meeting of the slack board to order for June 20th, 2022. First, Mike will be here, but he will be a little late coming from another commitment, so I'm going to get us started today. First order of business is to approve the agenda. I want to just add a little something before we go through, which is just an acknowledgement of the Juneteenth holiday. That's observed today. So maybe just adding that right underneath or right before the consent agenda to make that small. I have one separate event to consider on the Mistful Roads grant application. Where does that go? Anywhere you want. You can put it on the manager's items. Consider what? It's a grant for highways. So I'll entertain a motion to approve the agenda of the menu. Could I add one more thing? Yeah. Skip Flanders has offered to do a presentation on the water systems of EFUD, not tonight, but at a future meeting. So I'd like to put that in the parking lot to be added to. Another agenda as we see. Perfect. Thank you. There's room for it. Do we want to do discuss future meeting agenda? I discussed that that should become an item that discusses meeting agenda seemed to work well last time. Should put that at the bottom of select board items. Yeah, or at the end it feels okay with it after managers. But that never makes the most sense to discuss before we adjourn. I'm sure discuss upcoming agendas. Any other amendments? I'll move to approve the agenda. We have a motion to second further discussion. Right. Agenda is approved. I'm sorry. All in favor. I have a wrong meeting a little while. All in favor. Aye. Aye. Thank you. Agenda is approved. We'll get there. Next is to approve the consent agenda item. Which just consists of the minutes of the June 6 meeting. Emotions for the consent agenda. I'll second it. We have been second. Any further discussion? All those in favor. Aye. Thank you. Consent agenda pass it. Now's the time for any public comment, whether via zoom or in the room that isn't an item on the agenda. Now's the time to come up and speak if you would like. I want to note Juneteenth, we didn't coordinate. Oh my gosh, I know it's like the time. Thanks so much. Now is the time when I would look. I just want to acknowledge it is the observed holiday of Juneteenth. Marking the day when enslaved Americans were officially freed throughout the country. And I know that we talk a lot about equity in the work that we still have yet to do. And I think that's part of commemorating the holiday, knowing that we have come a long way. And we as a town are still acknowledging and working hard to make sure that equity is a big part of what we do. So how was that? Thanks for reminding me that I added that to the agenda. Thank you. Excellent. Fantastic. So first order of business and select board items is revitalizing Waterbury. We have Ken and Mark here. Come on up and join us regarding the economic and housing studies. Hello. I'm going to pass out some stuff or some copies of an executive summary of both the retail market analysis study, which is economic development one and the housing study. This is just a snapshot of kind of the work that was done in the full study. So that you don't have to sit here and read the full 15 pages. So Mark is passing that around. I want to just share a little bit about how this study came about. Because it was a great opportunity that we felt was worth taking. Truth be told, revitalizing Waterbury was in the process of hiring an economic development director. And we met a candidate who we particularly liked, one of two. And that person, though, was not hired for this position, was working for this organization called Main Street Group in New York City. And he contacted his boss and said, offered to us a free retail market analysis. And if you know me at all and we're a nonprofit, we're not going to say no to free. And then he said, you want anything else? And I said, yes, a housing study, please. So we hired this organization, the person who ran it was Max Vandervleet. Vandervleet, thank you, it was Vander something. Max Vandervleet and his team, and they were honest. And I said, why do you want to do this? And he goes, well, will you give us good recommendations if we try to get any jobs up in Vermont? I said, of course I will. So it was a two-way street. So we reached out to him. They conducted the study when Mark arrived back in March of 2021. He knew right off the bat that this was something he was going to work through for the next two, for the full year. And the one thing to just acknowledge, and then I'll let Mark talk, is that this is not a perfect study. It has quite a few little holes in it, but it was a free study. So it's not like I could really get everything I wanted out of it. But we do have found it to be interesting. Some pieces of it were very eye-opening. And it was really great to have a completely different perspective on our town, which has allowed our W Board of Directors to take some of this information and put it into its strategic planning for the coming couple of years. And on that note, that's all yours Mark. Yeah, so that's a good background on how we got the study in our hands. And then it's about communication between Max and I. And also we formed a project advisory committee, which consisted of seven members. Some were community members. Some were business owners, past and present. I think there was some RW folks on the board as well. And they helped guide the project in a way that it made sure that we got the most out of it. So we met during the about year of conducting from March or April to the end of the year. We met monthly to make sure the study was going on, checked in with the senior planner. And it was a very communicative process. So I'm going to start with the retail market analysis study, which is the economic component of the study. And then we'll go into the housing study and then I'll ask for some questions if there are any afterwards. So the retail market analysis study is kind of similar to the one that was done in 2013 by Arnett and Moldros. They did some similar studies and similar ways to gather data, but it was done at a very different time in Waterbury. In 2013 it was done, how can we and how have we recovered from the flood? And this one's done almost in, you can say, the height of the pandemic or still in the midst of the pandemic, especially for businesses, it was done throughout 2021. For the retail side, they came and did actual surveying during both the summer and fall season on different weekends and during the weekday as well. They were in locations such as Shaw's Grocery Store. They were in the farmer's market. They were, I think, up at Colesider at some points. And we're doing surveys not only to the visitors, but residents, and then asking different questions. Yeah, so you can see, I guess what I want to say is this study was free. So we couldn't get everything we wanted out of it and it is done at a snapshot. So you can see sometimes even recommendations that are recommended were already in process or completed even. Like there was a recommendation at the end of the retail market analysis study to begin some kind of wayfinding. And very soon after it was installed, it had been planned for a while. So yeah, you can see they did the zip code study, which showed a big presence of local zip codes from the area. So you can see that one of the key recommendations for that was to create a marketing plan to really appeal to the 30 minute driving distance from Waterbury. And to see if we do have the businesses that can support the locals and the residents of Waterbury, how do we let them know that they're here? If not, where are the holes? So that was a big recommendation on, you know, instead of doing the normal marketing strategies that we've been taking in Waterbury, which is appealing to the greater New England area, is to really focus in on our closest drivers, our day trippers, and it was especially at that time during COVID, you know, a lot of people were traveling in car and they weren't coming from longer distances. So to really to really market that was a key, key, key recommendation. Or do you know or have the information of how many folks took the survey? What the size is? I think we this survey, no, I don't know that number. I was going to say, I know that on the housing study, I know the amount of residents because I did the actual outreach for that one, but I could reach maybe back out to Max and see. I'd be curious if it's a simple number together. Interesting. Yeah, because they did testing. I want to say at least four different individual times and they had either two or three people work in different locations on those same days. And you can see some somewhere is they put the actual quantitative data percentage wise and other was like, so just what do you think and kind of you can seek some of those key words in the strengths and weaknesses. And I think something that always is good to remember. It comes out of a study is that talks a lot about the negative things and what you can do, but it doesn't really go into the positives, but you do get to see a little bit of that and the strengths and opportunities sections of. So that's yeah, that's the main takeaway from the retail market analysis study. And all one thing I want to share with you is that this idea of marketing to the region and to our locals has been integrated into our new strategic plan. That we're really going to focus on this kind of how do we get the Mad River Valley or the Montpeliers or the Richmond's and to think of Waterbury as a place to go do their shopping instead of somewhere else. So that is something we're going to start working on and thinking. So the nice thing about the study is it is informing some of the work we're going to be doing. Yeah, so let me talk about the housing study. So as mentioned earlier, there was surveys that were put out for the housing study to to get an overall thought on on the housing climate, you could say in Waterbury and where the holes were lacking, what they would like to see more of what they were looking for now and or in the future. Also, during the time of the study, the Maxis group went on and looked at Airbnb and the RBO and went to go find a total count at the time of the actual number of short term rentals, which you can see in the in the fast fax section of there, which was at the time it was 51 short term rentals that were available throughout those two sites. And of course, if they were one was on both, you know, you cross them out only one tally of all that stuff was done, which is a very small number of the total. I think we have about 2100 house the housing stock in Waterbury. So it's we're not facing nearly as severe of an issue of short term housing as locations like Stowe or the Burlington area is, which was a very positive thing for us after reading the study to realize that. Yes, we do have short term rentals, but they're the majority of our housing stock is used for long either long term rentals or homeowners. You can also see from the fast fax here section that just in two years, the price of median price of housing went up 98000, which is 30%, which is a really big increase within just two years. And I think a lot of people buying homes right now are seeing that and they see those numbers aren't lying. Some other key points that was learned from the study is higher preference on smaller occupancy for houses versus the three plus bedrooms that you see that were built like in the 70s and 80s. We're now seeing a more reliance and a more one for smaller, you know, whether that be a studio, one bedroom, two bedroom, but no, and that was a great percent. You can see about 85, more than 85% of people said that it was their preference. Yeah. Yeah, so those are the main, the main like background knowledge of the study and now to go and they had a lot of recommendations you can see for this, but I think there's only a few that are really important and ones to focus on. Which has to do, has to do a lot, I mean, has to do with finding that new, that new niche and that new want for people on what housing sizes is and to bring that to developers and to tell them that's what the need of people are right now so that we can bridge the, you know, bridge a gap between the demand and what people are wanting. You can see also some focus on ADU about, for example, implementing the ADU terms that were done for the interim zoning in the downtown design, what was it, designated downtown interim bylaw zoning or something like that, the name I don't know, but to keep those kind of recommendations to the full term. Yeah. What else? Yeah, those are the main, I think the main takeaways. There's some other ones, like you can see the last recommendation talks about it revolving loan fund for residential, which I think is either now or in place or is planned to be right to work with the UDAG. Is that right? You've, no, it's a recommendation. Okay, it's been discussed. Okay, I know I heard it. Okay. We went pointing to the project for the steps of grace building, but the UDAG fund that E-Fund has is already available for housing. Perfect. So that could have been something the best one doing research. Yeah, I think those are the main things. I don't want to take too much time discussing it. I'd rather open it now for questions, comments, anything under the sun. I will share that we, with the housing study specifically, we shared it with all of our legislators. We shared it with Down Street. We shared it with EGS, State of Vermont, EGS. Here, I don't remember his name. We shared it with the Planning Commission with you. Rotary Club asked us to do a presentation on it. So this was never going to be something that we kept to ourselves. We did it as a benefit to everyone else. And when we shared all the studies, but the housing study was of particular interest because we know about the housing crisis we're going in. And the housing isn't necessarily part of revitalizing Waterbury's stated mission. It is an economic development issue for us. And so it is part of our strategic plan. And the full studies are available online at revitalizingwaterbury.org under the business resource section. So if you want to read either print out yourself a copy of the full study or read it online as well as the executive summaries are there. So, yeah, I'll open it to questions. Other questions? Does this fall into line with the Down Street's planning for further development here in Waterbury as far as you know? I'm not sure there is that plan. So I would think so. I would think if they're planning on doing some kind of housing, it would be appealing to those one to two bedroom size apartments for that matter. Yeah, that's typically what they've done. So just as an aside, I have a meeting with Down Street folks on Wednesday at the Stanley Hall and Rossin Hall site have expressed an interest there months ago, back before the legislative session started. It reached out to Stevens and Theresa Wood to try to get them amped up with regard to that. EFUD has 51 South Main Street. They have some willingness to see housing as part of the redevelopment of that property. Down Street did come here. I guess it was last fall, maybe? Yeah, last summer of all. Yeah, late last summer again. And we gave Nicola Anderson a tour of several sites. I've communicated with Josh Hanford, who is the Commissioner of Union Affairs, and he has had conversations with the Department of Buildings and General Services. I had to push a couple of months ago about the Stanley Watson site and actually had a zoo meeting with Josh. And in that meeting I told him, reminded him that the legislature had already agreed to turn that property over to the town when we were thinking of putting this facility at the Stanley Watson site and maybe that they could just dust that off and get it going. And I told Josh that I'm sure that there would be a willingness, if it made things easier, if the state were going to donate the property. Donating to a municipality might be easier than donating to a housing organization just in terms of president setting. And then we could work with Down Street. The Commissioner of BGS told Josh that, well, that legislation back in 2013-14, whatever it was, was specific to a municipal building, so it couldn't be used. I would think that they could have easily amended it, but the statement that she made was this will have to go back to the legislature in January to start that process all over again. So I don't know where we stand. I was a little bit disappointed, actually. I don't know who gave it to me, but you know the Stow Street Bridge project that we all heard about a few weeks ago and it's going to disrupt the parking ride. Evidently in that process, without my knowledge, BGS has signed an MOU with the agency of transportation saying that they can use the Stanley Watson site as a parking ride replacement during the construction of the bridge. Frankly, there's a lot of room over at the state complex right now. They don't have a lot of employees back there that can use the rest of the place for parking rides. I'm concerned. Was it you, Melissa, that you gave it to me, right? So anyway, this will all come up in our meeting on Wednesday, but having said that, Down Street has expressed a definite interest to do one or more projects in Waterbury. If they build one, they won't just say, well, that's it. We have to go somewhere else. There's a need out there. And if they can put together the proper packages and get the proper incentives, I'm sure that they would be very interested in doing something. Having said that, I think that most of these type projects are in the early stages of their thought process right now. I don't think there'll be anything in place in 2023 and ready to be occupied, but if they can identify a project and start moving forward on it in 2023, that would be wonderful. So I'll keep you posted. Other questions? I have a question. I'm not sure Bill knows the answer, but back when the trustees were working on 51 South Main Street, we had a developer that made a proposal that eventually was voted down. But we worked with Steve Locke's speech and the zoning and things that created, I think it was like 800 square feet or something was counted as half a unit or something to allow for people who were downsizing. I was wondering, is that permanent now and has anybody taken advantage of it? It is permanent and not that I know of. So that project that Johnson was proposing could happen on 51 and in other places in the downtown. So that interim bylaw at the time was adopted and is in place now. Thank you. I want to say thank you for coming in and thank you for sharing. I appreciate that you also presented to the planning commission and I'm really glad to see that Dana is hiding here in the back as I call him out. As a planning commission liaison, because I guess I just want to say everywhere this says regulations. I think it's just a good reminder for us as a select board that that's going to be something as the planning enthusiast that we need to partner with the planning commission on. I'm curious for you folks at RW is there, if you had to pick a top priority from either a bolt that you would like to see the select board support or help move forward that you feel like you need us to lead on, what would that be? Well, I would say with I know that your second agenda item is talking about a committee on housing for the town and I would really RW would like to be at the table. So my first request is let us be here to help support you as you work on this. We, it is, I mean, Mark, it's high on Mark's list, it's high on the Waterbury area development committee's list. And this is what we're talking about, but we're not in any position to do the work, but we're great advocates. So we'd like to ask you to hopefully you're going to put together some kind of committee to work on this. We'd love to be at the table. So that would be one request. And then I think the truth is, Alyssa, you guys have supported us in a huge way this last year financially. And with that money, we plan on using it to do and execute and do the work we're doing. And for example, the marketing ideas really transforming our marketing and tourism programming in this town so that it's not all about tourists. But it's about the region is something we're taking to heart and really going to spend time thinking about. And the other thing I would say is that this, the Main Street Group, if you catch their name, is about Main Streets. And we very much wanted them to consider the town of Waterbury, including the Route 100 corridor. That information did not rise to the top for them, but it rises very much to the top for us. And so when we're thinking about the retail market analysis, we're also thinking of how we can draw this up Route 100 to Waterbury Center. We're very cognizant that we've spent the last three years very focused on really a street that starts there and goes that way. Because of Main Street construction and the pandemic, we've broadened out, but we're going to be spending a lot of time going up Route 100 to support the businesses. So I think, Mark, do you think, is there anything else you can think of that we really? Yeah, I think you hit on a lot of the points about for the retail market analysis side, the interconnectivity of the town and making sure that the different sections, whether that be in the downtown, even from South Main, you know, the south side of the north side, they're being filling connectivity to the commercial and the residential area, but also only up in the center. And if there's a way to support that more than just marketing, if there's infrastructure that those projects are thought about, and I mean, they're long term, definitely long term, just like this housing, as you said, if Down Street does invest in a project now, it's not going to be built tomorrow. You know, that kind of funding for kind of funding and the infrastructure takes five, it could take five years easily. So it's to make sure you think about this project, even if they seem very far away from you for completion, but you can see what's, you know, how long ago were they planning the industry reconstruction? I've heard 30 years ago, and you've seen what's already done to this town in the short time it's been built. And housing, my number one thing is make sure this zoning supports the wants of the community. I mean, that's a very hard goal, and to gauge the community, yes, you can say let's go all out and develop it, but if you don't have people to support it and people that want to come in for that kind of development, then there's no point of having vacant houses. Alyssa, from your recent time on the planning commission, I think back to, I don't know, it was probably 15 years ago now, anyway, who were talking about places that we could develop housing next year. And of course, we all know in the village area, there's not a lot of land available. And back then, the planning commission looked at whether some kind of housing could be developed in Pilgrim Park. And at the time, coffee roasters pushed back and said, we don't want, you know, we've got too many private trailers going in and out of here and we don't want kids and we don't want residential, this is an industrial park. And of course, you know, they were the dog wagging the tail in time and now they're gone. And, you know, I think that the owners of Pilgrim Park have been relatively successful getting more industrial and commercial stuff over there. But with the pandemic and, you know, commercial office space is still kind of up in the air as far as how good an investment is that. So the question is, did the planning commission, has there been any discussion about that area as a mixed use area again? Because you could, you know, there's a lot of space over here, obviously. And you could do some things and actually have some fairly dense development with a fairly high number of units if you could use space like that. I guess a couple of things I would say and defer to Dana, I've mistaken two meetings and now I'm listening in again as a Slackware member. So a couple of with regards to your one specific question on Pilgrim Park, I guess I would say as far as I'm aware the planning commission hasn't yet handled it. So to start with the area they're focusing on for the rewrite to start is the downtown. And part of that is driven by infrastructure and having water sewer. And if anyone read the Seven Days article that profiles five communities, the lead quote is from Katie Buckley and it's talking about communities that don't have water and sewer infrastructure, which then means for dense multi-family housing like what Down Street ideally wants to develop. They're starting like way behind the APA with needing that infrastructure before they can go anyway. So the fact that we have APA and our water sewer commissioners, again mostly in the downtown though also beyond that is a big step forward. Adds to the point with industrial, in the world of zoning, industrial is important because it allows the most uses. And when I sat in Mark's seat, plenty of people called and if you want to do some sort of manufacturing processing, the only land we have in Waterbury to do that is industrial. And candidly we don't have a lot. We've got parachuting range in that area down that way outside the village and we have Pilgrim Park and we have that other little bit behind the barrier. But really that's like the extent of industrial land in Waterbury. So it's been a conversation that's been broached and I think not resolved around this phrasing of taking something out of industrial. I think an alternate conversation that's been had is could you put housing in somewhere that is zoned industrial? Big picture that isn't usually thought of as a smart thing to do because industrial is making a thing and big scary trucks, etc. I think in modern practice folks are now saying if a housing developer wants to accommodate for that, should we as a municipality be prohibiting it? I'm not. I'm not. I've been getting for it. Nor am I and I'm saying candidly. I think last you know right we went through downtown mixed use and residential 10 which were three of six zoning districts in the downtown still on that list is industrial and this state office complex. I would also give the planning commission kudos and say literally at the last meeting on Monday there was a proposed getting really wonky but just quite like minimum lot size that controls the density of how many apartments you can put on a downtown lot. There was a hypothetical proposal from a consultant and ultimately because of input from a community member and doing some thinking around what's buildings we know and like in our community that fit really well. Condos down by 89 and saying what is that density? The planning commission revised what they were working on and said we actually should let this be done so in the downtown to allow for more housing options. So just I think some of that work is in progress and I guess not to try and bridge but I think some of it is thinking about how to we as a select board and our WM partners help support that work that's moving forward in a quick area because I think there's a lot of shared goals and it's just trying to move it forward. Yeah. To be clear to none of that is finalized. It's all of this is still draft in discussion and for presentation of public so nothing that the planning commission has discussed thus far is set in stone. But what I said is absolutely correct. And also to the point where the planning which realizes that housing is of interest to everyone in this room, the community, large, et cetera, you're doing more stuff or doing more planning commission doing work. There's been a lot more discussion about opening up the lines of communication setting more schedules for our internal work and also communicating that work to you on a more regular basis. Because obviously it's that's going to facilitate what you're doing what you guys are ultimately tasked with doing and then what we're doing. So just we're very aware of this and part of the reason I'm here tonight to is that we have also had housing task force on our agenda in sort of our parking lot for a minute now and it's getting out of the parking lot and so out of interest. I'm attending. We'll report back so don't talk out of school. You know I'm going to just add you know if you wanted to what is our W you know one of our W's goals is to bring in businesses into this town and we don't do it all by ourselves. But when we hear of when we get a phone call from Jamie Stewart is central for my economic development. He says hey we think we got a company that's coming it'll bring in 200 new employees. Our first word is where are they going to live?  And that's a literally our first thought. And this has happened you know darn tough hundred new employees. Wow great where are they going to live. MTX great IV computer they're adding 50 you know more employees great. We're a commuter town right now. People live here so they can work up in Burlington but most of most of our employees are driving in into town. And then we're not even talking about the fact that Casey's bagels is seriously considering a closing two days a week because she can't find people because they can't they don't live in the area and they can't afford it. So and Casey's for the first time in 20 something years is thinking of closing two days a week and there are tears about that. So housing is economic development is really important for us. So yeah we're passionate I think we're all passionate about it. I was going to ask and since you just brought it up kind of opened the door. I was going to ask where are we in the process of the two companies MTX and IV that got the vision grant. So what's happening now? I think you know as much as we do. You know the NTX has a sign on the door right Mark. Yeah they've got their sign up in the street so they're official. I think IV is currently in the process of development review for trying to get their building expansion approved so we'll see how that goes. We don't have more information. They have veggies to back them so they better keep up with their criteria they won't get their money. Oh can you just say what ADU is for anyone who's really excited. Accessory dwelling. Veggie got me thinking. Any last questions? Perfect well thank you so much. Well thank you. Time. So as we discussed the next item on the agenda is discussing establishing a housing task force. And I don't know who proposed putting on the agenda with it. I might look at you while I said that but I could not confirm. So if you'd like to start the conversation. I guess I would just say and I don't think Dana as we said this was on the planning commission parking lot. I feel not quite as bad about us serving it because I put it on the planning commission parking lot and didn't take it off the planning commission parking lot. Given that RW was coming for the study I emailed early or late today at like 4pm. I have copies for everyone but basically you know I don't think we need to make any final decisions tonight but I know this is a topic. You can have one too with the parking map on the back. So you can see the parking lot. I somehow accidentally printed three the MOU. Anyway so this is kind of clearly in many years you know I think it's no like so we have a housing study which maybe is yet another piece of data. And what I think the community is identified as a housing problem we all have identified. It's something the select board has talked about so the most recent references I could find during the time I've lived in Waterbury was in 2018 around when the municipal plan was approved. Again in kind of the planning world at which point it said oh one of the things the plan talked about is you know if you want to improve housing you need people doing that work and advocating for it and creating some sort of committee. The one at the bottom that's a little off topic is about an energy plan committee because Duncan McDougal shout out. But you know said we need a committee to move this work forward and pushed really hard to get the select board to appoint a committee and then has a committee of folks moving the work in the energy plan forward. So that's been talked about in the housing realm but it hasn't progressed. So in terms of tonight's conversation I guess I would say certainly we don't have the whole board here. I don't think we need to make any decisions but I just want to be the squeaky wheel on this issue which is that I think again the study is yet another piece of father and the fact that this is happening quickly. There's a lot of moving pieces. Obviously he spoke into the ongoing zoning rewrite that has housing components and planning commission wants to talk about this. We have our W wanting to be at the table. We have coordinating with Down Street. I think there's no shortage of work that a group locally interested in this could do. And so I just wanted to bring that something to just at least take the temperature of the board in terms of what we think and then talk about what next steps would be in my view to like move it forward. And you know we can talk about what capacity and structure and whatnot but I'll say at least personally I'm happy to volunteer on some sort of committee. If there was any. Bill in your memory has there has anything moved forward aside from just that those conversations in 2018. No I confirmed that with Steve today. I saw this from Melissa earlier today. I said I think I knew me over back and said yeah I remember those discussions but nothing has happened since. So I think you know if the select board is inclined to create a housing task force you could make a motion to do that now and solicit membership and appoint representatives. I know that Mary Cohen has expressed interest from the planning commission and just heard tonight that there's others that may be interested as well. So if it's something the board wants to do I would there's no reason not to do it. I would suggest that if you did that you would try to keep a place for somebody from the committee. As Alissa said water and sewer is critical when you talk about housing. And you know I hope I don't say something out of turn here but when it comes to housing obviously we're all and economic development both we're always parochial first and we always talk about what we can do here. You know EFOD is more than likely going to be taking over the Duxbury-Mortown fire district. We already sell water over there and you know there's talk in the Mortown Planning Commission about trying to get sewer over there. And certainly you know in that part of Duxbury-Mortown if there was more housing available it would benefit Waterbury as well. So you've got to think outside of the box a little bit too but I think from the perspective of the fact that water and sewer is so critical that we should reach out to the commission and since the chairperson is here and listening he's hearing that. So we could vote to create the task force tonight with no further action and then revisit the conversation to talk about like the... Yeah you could make a decision that you're going to do it and then you know maybe you want to wait until you actually figure out what you want for the composition before you actually create it. So you can put that on the next agenda or you know on the 20th of July or something like that if you want to. Doing it in the next couple of months I think is timely.  Yeah I mean I think we the Congress that's just snowballing I mean we've had members of the public come and address it to us on more than one occasion we all know it. I had just been elected and I was moving and couldn't find housing in town which would have taken I wouldn't be eligible to be on a slack board if I was living in Duxbury or Mortown was where I found an apartment. So yeah I think taking some forward actions tonight would be beneficial and then talking with the whole board about maybe what that task force looks like and who might be on it. I'll move to create a Waterbury area housing task force and decide what the composition will be in the coming two to four weeks. Okay so moved in second and do we have further discussion. I would just say for information though it doesn't have to be in the motions we would assume to have out of minimum an EFUD in RW a planning commission a slack board and a community member representative probably someone also from the affordable housing role but again to be determined further but just for those in the room we likely will be soliciting representative from those constituencies. Thank you. Those in favor. Aye. Aye. Excellent. Motion passes. Thank you so much. Discuss community priorities for community profile and manager search. So this is something Mike asked to be on the agenda. Sure. I can yeah. It isn't here yet. That's okay. I can cover. Oh I thought like it was coming in. That would have been spectacular. See you later. Thanks Mark. Hey Mark. So. Thank you Dana. I don't know how much. I don't actually I'm not really sure what Mike wanted to discuss further maybe just finalizing those items but we haven't put the survey out to the community yet regarding the priorities. And you've both seen that you've all you both and skip have seen that draft of the community survey. It just hasn't been out yet. So I don't know that there's more to discuss until we get the feedback. And the final draft. Yes. Can we just reiterate so I'm not on the search committee. So to reiterate from the meeting and what happened after the last meeting you provided a draft of the survey listing priorities. I know I individually emailed you back with feedback. Yeah. I've heard from not all but I didn't hear back from Chris. But I did speak with skip and I also spoke with Natalie for input. So. I met select work members because my understanding. Yeah. Chris I said there's only one. But I did also solicit so that there's a couple of from as well. So I'm happy to send a final draft for you all to look at.  If you want to look at that before it goes out. I'm happy to do that. Essentially I just incorporated. But all most almost all of the feedback but. I can send it to you. I'm not worried about seeing it. I just wanted to check it on next steps. Yep. So the next step is to get it out to the public and have with a deadline and have the feedback come back and then we would help use that to help make our decision for the top priorities to put in that profile. The one thing I will say is that Rick from the LCT was saying that it's not urgent to get this in because we're not putting it in like the advertisement. It's going to go in that community profile that we give to candidates and can be added at any time. So he was saying this isn't like a really top priority piece of information for him and like the next week to 10 days say it can be a couple of weeks. So it's something that we should get out this week. So it is on board with the final draft. Yes. Yes. So they saw the paragraph that will go out and then both skip and Natalie gave input as well to adjust them. Yeah. I would say it's fine and like Danny says it's not. We don't have to have that part of it for the advertisement. It's part of that profile. So I think you know seeking the community input is fine. I did have one item now that you have that on there. I just got to share with you folks. So when you're through with that I'll share my other item with you that relates to the manager's search here. Do you want to do that now since that this is about the manager search and I think we have that item again. And it was at the last search committee we went through it with Rick and he had asked for an item on whether we wanted to include how the boards work together and somehow we passed over that. When I responded to him about some updates on e-fund water and sewer customers in town out of town and things I thought we didn't go over this. I had sent him back a note. My suggestion was to include that the two boards work together. We share equipment and personnel. Most of it is probably thanks to Bill. And also we share working on policies like the personnel policy, pay raises and health insurance and things. So that a couple of statements in there indicating you know things that we do work together on and stuff that might be helpful to somebody looking at Waterbury. Yes, they do work together and things. So if that was okay with the next meeting to include that or phrase something similar to that in the community profile that Rick was doing. Thank you for catching up. So that's okay with you folks to include that. Yeah, we need to vote on it. I don't think we need to vote on it. I wanted to make sure you. No, that sounds good to me. I think one of the challenges of this position is going to be the fact that you're ruled by two different boards and how that is coordinated. The more that we can make it seem like it's all just one happy family, the better from my perspective. Thank you. All right, consider candidates and make appointments for positions of town clerk and town treasurer. So we received just two, I think. Correct. Did you get received those emails? I received one of them. Right. So that's sent it to my personal. That's why I don't have it here. So we received the letter of interest from Jarrett Dury Agri. You have that. And Roger, you received that one as well. Yeah. And then as well from Karen. Any discussion to begin? Bill's out. Do we want to put you on the spot? Carla just in. Can we just review just to restate the process in terms of this will be an appointment until town meeting and the like. This will be an appointment until town meeting. The plan is to for me to be here physically until September 2nd as town clerk and treasurer and then make the appointment as of the end of business on September 2nd. So I have time to help train the person while I'm here. And then I have several weeks of vacation that I'll be taking. So I'll still be available to help if we see. So when would they begin to train with you as soon as possible? Yeah. Did we say when we're going to close consideration of the candidates? We had asked for letters of interest by us Thursday. So it is effectively closed. Yeah. So today was the decision day. Yeah. Just to Karen and then one other from Jarrett Dury Agri and Karen King for the record. Oh, sorry. Thank you. Karen. Erg. Erg. Erg. Erg. Erg. Erg. Erg. Erg. Erg. Erg. Erg. Erg. Erg. Erg. Erg. Erg. Erg. Erg. Erg. Erg. Erg. Erg. Erg. Erg. Erg. Erg. Erg. Erg. Erg. Erg. Erg. Erg. Erg. Erg. Erg. Erg. Erg. Erg. Erg. Erg. Erg. Erg. Erg. Erg. Erg. Erg. Karen Petrovich to this interim position starting September 2nd until the next town meeting. I will second that. Moved and seconded for the conversation. How should I say clerk and treasurer? Yes, all positions. Town clerk and town treasurer. And I would just reiterate, I'm glad that we put it out there publicly. I think that was a really good process in terms of things and I think it's great to have some of that. Just given Karen's direct experience in the role. And that would be a lot of transition. It's not an easy job to step into. Most clerks have their assistance. Two groups train under them and then a lot of step up into that position. But Beth is preferring her part time position. So Karen will do a great job because she does part of the job as it is. She sees what we do, she helps with us. It's a very collaborative group. And we have a lot of transition coming up in our town. So this seems like a really great choice for a smooth one in this regard. Any further discussion? All those in favor? Aye. It's unanimous. So we have appointed for the positions of town clerk and town treasurer, Karen Petrovich, with many thanks for stepping up, Karen. Thank you, Karen. Thank you. Congratulations, ladies. Congratulations. Thank you. Excellent. So we'll move on to update on traffic calming efforts. Yeah, Roger asked this beyond here. And it's a little bit of an update that I wasn't quite clear with you when I talked last to Roger. So at the last meeting we had folks here the river and at that meeting we had talked about buying three more portable units. We have reached out, Roger, to the all traffic solutions to try to get an update on the price. The price that I gave you the other day of 2500 when I went back and read Bill Woodhead's e-mail to me, it was the price of 2020 was 2500 dollars and we were asked for an updated price. So Bill is in Arizona delivering his daughter to the resident at our hospital out there. So we won't forget this. He may have heard from all traffic solutions but we're kind of pulled the trigger out actually ordering those here. We did move both portable speed radar devices that we have. Two little river roads. One was put up on Tuesday I think last week or Wednesday and the other one was in the other direction. It should have been put up. I didn't go down today but I believe it's up. I got e-mails from both of the women who were here at the meeting thanking the board and us for taking the quick action. And we'll keep that in the rotation. Reached out to the state police and let them know that traffic is an issue in many places around the community. So that's the update that I have. I still think, I don't think the price is probably higher than 2500 dollars now if it was 2500 in 2020. The bigger issue is going to be how quickly we can get it and I don't know yet. I'll try to have a better update by next meeting and I'm hopeful that maybe we'll have actually ordered one or more by the next meeting but we haven't forgotten it. Speaking of the police just in case everybody's wondering I did reach out to Lieutenant Bright today to find out if he had anything he could update us on with regard to the shooting the other night. And unfortunately when I called him he wasn't in the office. I left the voicemail with him. His voicemail said that they're very busy and sometimes they don't get back to you by the way. I haven't heard from him yet. I was hoping that maybe he would have been able to tell me something. Lisa was here, she's gone I guess. She may know. She stepped down. They updated the, she did update her article I think late last night so I'm not sure if you saw that one yet. But that's as far as... There was another story on WCAX at six tonight and then I caught the tail end. But I was hoping that maybe he would give me some additional information but I don't have it. Thank you. Carly can we just put that traffic update again on the July 5 meeting just so we remember to hear the update from Bill again. Yeah thank you. And anecdotally I was on Little River Road today and I saw the trooper both going on my way in and on my way out so they're there. That's really the first time I've ever seen a trooper there and I'm there a lot so it was nice to see that they're there. So that's great. Excellent. Bill I just want to thank you and your team for your responsiveness on this. I think it's very much appreciated by our constituents. And then moving on to considering salary adjustment for municipal manager. Yeah I'll address this. Bill prior meeting addressed adjusting salaries for all the municipal employees and the one municipal employee that he couldn't adjust was his own and so I'd like to move that we institute a 5% raise for the municipal manager retroactive to April 1st and check this out. You've got them there and we have a second. Second. Thank you. We have a motion and a second. I know you just said it but I just loudly for the record we did discuss with EFUD and all select board members so we have all been consulted. Any other further discussion? I can confirm not to act EFUD and fully agree with the 5% and so. And Bill just for the record too it's such a weird position that you're in when these conversations happen and I'm sorry that we are slow I think with the turnover of the board but we need to do better going forward with whomever is here to ensure that it doesn't happen like this yearly so. That's quite a lot. Thank you. So our feelings this is very fair and I appreciate it. Thank you. Motion and a second. All in favor? Aye. Aye. There's unanimous and passes. Moving on to manager Aida. I didn't hear where you put Roger's point about coming to talk about water and sewer. Oh sure. We can discuss it before we move on to manager's items we can discuss future I was going to take lead before you had Gary. Thank you. And I did talk to Roger about two half hour periods later I talked to Mike on the search committee and he also talked about that but I think he got a little confused he thought I wanted two half hour periods at the same meeting. If you thought it was tonight he called and he said get the scoop on there and I said So I think Avila and I have talked about a time that would work for me was I think it was July 20th when the legal cities and towns is coming and we could do it after that I thought doing it at the end of your meeting so if we run longer we're not holding up somebody So the first one could be on the 20th and then you can decide from there I would do the water first I guess there's interest in the Duxbury more town and we may know more about that by the 20th of July and then we can I'll come back and talk about the sewer and like you heard tonight the water and sewer are very important to housing and development and all of those issues and things so So do you want to then schedule the next one on the 20th when you're here Yeah And that would just be the first half hour on the water Just for the water and with that at the end for the end of your journey Thank you Thank you so much Thank you Skip Now we can move forward First starting with discussion of CC Fisher Reserve Fund with Gary Dillon Come on up What's that Nice and early Well I was just going to say in all the times as our chief in 20 years I have never been early I've been early I have The folks around have not been early Thank goodness for cell phones What in the other room I said I said The ends are bad I went down to the fire station I went down to the fire station to make a copy of something for you and I'm like No they can make their own copies if they want Thank you I don't know what you have questions but I can give you the background first if you'd like CC Fisher was the longest serving fire chief in the village He is second now that we've merged to Sid Thurston So But the difference being that CC Fisher referred to him as CC CC He was the fire chief when they were still pulling this old 1859 Seth Pumper sitting in our station He was around when there were chemical carts and he was the fire chief as the village progressed in fire protection up through what I would say our modern fire trucks being about the size of our pickup truck but it actually was an engine and it pumped it didn't pump what they do now but that's progression So he was really the force behind the village fire department progressing to what we are now and when he passed away Bob Grace who knew him made a proposal that the membership bought into because Bob was spot on and essentially we created this document that's our training fund we have a training line item in our budget but this is different in that when it was created no money could be spent in this fund if you will until it reached $5,000 but even that could be spent only the interest that was made off that could be spent the following year So just for one second So the village as far as I know the village as fire department has always been a municipal fire department funded by the village tax payers the fire chief was an elected village officer not appointed by the select village trustees when they hired the town manager up until the village fire department merged with the town there were fire wardens and the officers that were on the ballot of actually they were voting from the floor at the meeting so it was always a municipal department but it was always a volunteer department and then it transformed into a paid volunteer department kind of like it is today but the fund that Gary is talking about was established by the volunteer firefighters it was a fund that they raised tax money it wasn't didn't belong to the village so when they produced that document volunteer fire departments and fire departments that are structured like ours are very common now in Vermont and it's there's always a little bit of a push-pull between the municipal side of the equation and I'll say club with respect the fraternity association so the firefighters they have like many organizations they have a few of their own funds that they raise money for and they spend it but anyway so you can move on from there I'm sure that folks knew that it was not municipal money right this is right and it's not municipal money now it's belongs to the firefighters association and so essentially it's evolved over the years into a larger fund and I don't recall if it was Ed Eldridge or Michael Rock that worked it out with you to have you help invest it so the back when did you become chief 20 years ago so it was prior to 20 years ago I think it was I think it was Ed that came and talked about it and what Ed Eldridge who was the elected fire chief at the time came he talked to me and I said well let me talk to the village trustees and it was the firefighters would like this money invested they don't feel comfortable doing it themselves we had already started a track record of having some reserve funds so the money was turned over and as I say it was Memo on Saturday I don't know if you saw it or not but it started off in the 8 or 9000 range and when the town and the village merged had been at the tail end of a trough in the market so it was about 64-6500 when it went into the fund that it's in now so that money again it's the principal has never spent only the interest that is made in this year can be spent and controlled by the training officer makes a recommendation to myself and quite honestly he lets the membership know there is a process the membership could say well we don't want to do that but it's never happened because it's always spent with good judgment and planning so whatever we make for interest this year it can be spent next year and if that money is not spent that goes into the principal so it continues to build we continue to get to utilize the money although sometimes I think we don't take the money out of this account we just spend our own money so this is where the rub is for me and I don't object and it's clearly for the benefit of the fire department I sent you the e-mail the e-mail that I sent and from my perspective 2012 and 13 it's the only time the money is coming out of it it's growing and every once in a while some members of the public usually at town meeting which we haven't had in a couple of years but they'll see it in the report there's a little word in there and it says the CC Fisher Fund is worth this and maybe they were a firefighter or their brother was a firefighter and they say well don't come where's that money going isn't it going into the budget it's just growing right now we need to do a better job in coordinating with our secretary of our funds and having him let me know communicate with Bill or whoever the new manager will be to take those funds out that we are spending because that's what it's designed for so we've already sent this year two people to Maryland to the National Fire Academy and so the the monies that we earned interest on last year and that's one of the things that I've got to go with after the fact when the training piece is done so that paid for that we still have our fire department budget but we also have a live burn coming up that absorbs money and we have other things that come out of that like open house public safety day and there's two of us leaving Wednesday to go to the New England Fire Chiefs so that will take up all of the money from the C.C. Fisher interests from last year and then some of that money that will go over will come out of the town's budget in our training line item you know the last couple years we haven't been able to send people because of the pandemic and it's just the way it is this year we're moving forward so that's what that money is for it can be used for public safety day it can also be used for something at the school for fire safety it can be used for you know somebody going to college we do have a grant set aside we could use this money to add money to our grant for somebody going to college it's usually this second semester so that's what this money can be used for can you talk about how the decisions are made for the money that you spent just because I don't know the process at all when there's a training that comes up I'll either get it in the mail or the training officer gets it in the mail he gets the same ones that typically I do from the state and it's posted or people are notified that hey, there's this training if you're interested let the training officer know I do not get involved in that so the training officer kind of manages who goes to the trainings around the Vermont and to Maryland he will come to me because I'm the authority but I don't think anybody's ever overridden the training officer because it's pretty well coordinated so that's really how it's done I'm the fire chief so I get to go where I want but I go to the New England Fire Chiefs conference because that's what I'm a part of and we have aside from myself we have two assistant chiefs and three battalion chiefs they can also go to these conferences so there's two people that went to Maryland they got some great training there we send people there every year it's called Tri-State it's a little odd because it's Vermont, New Hampshire and Alabama I'm not sure it takes place in Maryland at the National Fire Academy but the training there is great I have never been but I've certainly heard I'd rather go to something that's geared towards what I do so that's kind of it the training officer is responsible for planning the use of the CC Fisher funds although it's a little misleading in here it's under old structure said the assistant chief second assistant chief was responsible but when we merged we had to make a bunch of changes in our rank structure do you always have what you need for training between the regular budget and the funds? no it's rare that we've come up short I would say that we're treated fairly I wouldn't complain Bill has done a really good job of working with me over the last many years so I guess the question I'm wondering about is do you have money somewhere else that you're using for these things because nothing's coming out of the CC Fisher and it should be and this is just a throw it out on the table I'm not married to this because I'm learning as much as this life was right now this is a little bit akin to what happens in the library the library has a trust fund and this year $25,000 coming out of the trust fund and then $485,000 coming out of the taxpayers' pocket from the library but the library has an organization called Friends of the Library it's a bunch of people that are friends of the library so they're the firefighters they do fundraisers there are people out there who say I'd like to make a $500 donation to the library they send a check to either comes in here or it goes to Rachel so what we've done there is we've actually set up a thorough library fund and it's the donation fund so it's the CC Fisher fund the library and the reason we did it is because if you there are some donations that come in to the library and the library director says I know what I'm going to use this for and they just buy it so there's a line item in the library's regular budget an income line that says receive from donations and then there's a line item that says purchase by donations so let's say there's some donations that come in in a particular year that would be high but it's happening and the library director says we're going to spend $3,500 of it to buy this e-book collection or audio book collection but there's $1,500 that they haven't signed it on if it stays in fund 13 the library's general fund or the fire department's regular budget at the end of the year $1,500 just drops to the bottom line it becomes part of the fund balance and it's used to reduce the taxes next year and the person who made the donation didn't do anything except give everyone in town about an eighth of a cent tax rate so we set up this donation fund so any donations that come in that don't get spent go into a donation fund and it can stay and the fund balance grows and then the library director and the library commissioners can make decisions on that I think that even though this money the genesis of this money was prided with firefighters and I'm not proposing to steal it from them in any way but I think it's helpful when we have a public entity and the library both take a significant amount of tax dollars that we can show the public how much it really costs to run a good fire department so if we've got a budget that includes a training line item that's whatever the line item is $8,000 and the firefighters are spending other money that's either donated or raised through fundraising and they're spending another $3,000 or $4,000 on training we really have a fire department that needs to have $12,000 of training not eight so I wonder if you and I can work together you talk to the firefighters first because this is not a mandate but it's an offer that the document that you have there might be amended and I would suggest that it be amended so that there might be a line in the fire department in the town's budget that says income from CC Fisher Fund and then a line item in the budget that says spent from CC Fisher Fund so that at the end of a year we can say okay the CC Fisher Fund had a 10% gain and that's $2,300 and we can show that being transferred into the fire budget and then we can show it being spent and in that way we remember to move the money over because we've got a process in place to do it and B we can tell the public it's a really good fire department but you're not paying for all of it there's money coming from this other funding source so if that's something that might work I don't see why that wouldn't work I don't think we've ever really thought of it like that and I don't think in the past until I started really looking into this when I saw it in your parking lot is that right? I'm not I'm not up on all this terminology I'm like old school I had to learn from my kids how to use a phone so I started looking into it and found that we haven't taken funds out of the CC Fisher Fund that we've actually just the secretary of our funds just pays the bill out of the funds that we have and I do send here's what the CC Fisher Fund is doing right correct that's on us so since 2013 all the interest is going just going back into the principal it's going back into the principal and we're just spending money on the other side so I hopefully can get that corrected because it is a good reflection of what it costs for our training the other funds that we have pay for a summer picnic if we're doing it we do a lot of pay it forwards we spend a lot of money and make donations to other groups and other people an example there was a girl in Morrisville a high school girl that had cancer and we I think we made a donation of like $2,500 because she was desperate for money to take her for treatment and we do that a lot during construction we spent in the first year we paid for a big lunch for all the construction workers and associated people and in the second year we didn't do anything because everybody was afraid I get it, I'm not minimizing it but then last year we spent a lot of $2,500 and literally gave every worker an opportunity to answer a question that they could not get wrong although one guy I had to guide him a lot like I mean the questions are so simple that we're literally just giving a money but it was being spent in Waterbury so that's what we did for that and then we one crew at the top of Bank Hill coffees one morning so it's that kind of stuff we did get a fairly large donation a few years ago from somebody that is anonymous I know who it is but I'm the only one and he gave us a $10,000 donation but for the most part that's dwindled down over the last few years he keeps spending money on other people and doing other things so that's what we do so do you have a separate account so you can take donations we're a 401C something and I don't know exactly which one it is so we do have our own funds they are managed by our secretary of firefighter funds and he keeps track of all that he can tell us exactly with a little bit of time how much money we spent out of that $10,000 as an example he can tell us how much we've spent out of training rather than using this fund so we need to have him I need to do a better job of having him give me some amount that we have we need to spend out of the CC Fisher Fund and then let Bill know who can take it out so that's on me that's on my guy and it's just a management issue really of doing a better job with that but we are spending more money in training than what we get in our budget but that's the village department I don't have the history with the old town department so I'm not minimizing what they did the village department had a history of paying for stuff the first rescue truck was paid for 50% of it was paid for by the firefighters association one of the tank trucks, 50% of that was paid for by the firefighters association what it was back then I don't know I don't even know that there was a really a tax issue back then so it's not uncommon for us to pay for things and could we spend more money in our training budget I'm confident we could but we're it's fair considering we have this right and I just want to make sure but it should be clear that when you buy things if you're buying equipment that is ultimately going to be hours then there will be an expectation that that piece of equipment is going to be repaired and replaced at some point and that will go into the regular budget that we haven't done, we haven't bought equipment since many years ago and when you do go on these training things it should be it should be paid for by the community because if something should happen during an accident on the way there you know you're covered by workers compensation and everything else we should you know, for your protection through the firefighters things like that should run through the budget I'm not asking that your whole all of the funds the money that you were buying coffee for the workers that doesn't have to be you've set up this private organization but I think the CC Fisher funds because that money like or not is in the town's name and it's the town's employer identification number that's where the money is it's how money right now but I think if we can adjust that document and make it easier to just move the money from the fund into the budget and then get it spent you'll save some of your other money I totally understand where you're coming from I would caution you to not consider it your money because that would create a big visit and something that is not necessary because it's still used for the benefit of the town because we're spending things and Bill's not wrong I just don't want you to think oh wait a minute that's town money because it's being invested does the use of the CC Fisher fund require any motion from the select board it hasn't but as long as I went back as far as I could go in the current system so we started using the accounting system that we have now we started using it properly in 2006 we had it way prior to that we didn't run everything through it so I went back to 2006 it was still the village fire department until 2009 and I saw the ups and downs in the fund and from the best I could see Gary nobody ever was taken out of it while it was the villages and then became the town in 2009 I believe that was when the world was back and the only time money has come out and it's really a nominal amount I think it was $2,000 off the other over three years so no they've never come to the select board they just would tell me we invested from the CC Fisher fund and we did it it's probably in the orders of the town because it's how the charity gets going and it's deciding not on it and if the town would confirm out to have it we can make arrangements to get it back to them but I think they asked for it to be managed by the town because they just had it essentially under their mattress and it wasn't really gross it's gross and it requires it requires interest for them and they spend it and it seems like liability wise this is the best route to take so so we don't say it's the town one no I hope everybody that heard the first part is hearing the second part and I'll be clear at our next business meeting and we will make an adjustment Matt Raymond is our sponsor he does a really good job of tracking stuff so he and I will meet and we'll get this better under control so that it's more clear how much we spend for training and not all that's used for training some of it like I said is used for you know scholarships some is used for a big chunk quite honestly is used for our annual bank we have it catered I'm hoping that the current municipal manager will actually make it to the next one because we always have done it during budget season so he's home and doing his budget and I've offered him a part time job after he's retired so he's not going to get the same pay so what that's all about you know if you have any more questions I can try and answer whether it's this or someone okay anything else I think it was really interesting to hear a little bit more and I think it would be great to have you here a little more often all I gotta do is get an invite I'm not one of those people that's going to come to a meeting just to sit here and listen I have better things to do I'm not saying that these aren't important but I have other things I'm part of the capital fire mutual aid and I'm running two different work groups for that we're updating some stuff so I have enough stuff to do if you have a question I certainly don't mind coming down it's no big deal but just send me an invite don't think that I'm going to just show up never thanks so much Gary I have a question here and I can throw this out I would encourage this board to start thinking about next school year and I know I sound like a broken record but every year it's progressively gotten worse this year they're parking they were parking up high street parking on the sidewalk so if somebody was visually impaired isn't going to make it they're parking on both sides and the signs need to be changed as well from no parking to no parking or standing because that's the legal term of somebody that's sitting in their car so I as a resident up there would be grateful if we could solve this problem because I went by a couple cars this past year because I pick up my granddaughter at daycare on Mondays and people literally are yelling that you're going by but there's no other option and they're going all the way down railroad street thank you I just thought well I'm sitting here thanks a lot all of you ever need in welcome Mike long weekend excellent so next under managers items preliminary discussion on use of art books including CVS Fiber I need more light not real dark well they're all dim-bellied just there you go it was scary okay all right so I apologize for the this was on the agenda last week you all saw it I was just intended to have some brief discussions about process here but then a few other things kind of came up that I've been thinking about so I late this afternoon I sent you an email if you didn't read it I apologize it was so late you can read it later I did also send it to Linda Revelle and Chris Shank just to let them know and discuss so I want to concentrate on the CVS Fiber part of this discussion first so back in April Roger made a motion that was passed by the board to appropriate $50,000 to CVS Fiber and Linda Revelle had been here several times and you know I had raised the question earlier with her in meetings whether or not how meeting is passed I'm not sure the select board can appropriate $50,000 she said well she kind of quoted chapter and verse of some of the APA law and had some backing which I confer with Katie Buckley at the LCT as far as I know is not an attorney and if you remember Linda said well the select board is the final arbiter the legislative body is the final arbiter of and appropriating it and I talked to Katie and Katie said that and I reported that to the board here and I had been talking to you about the prospect of a special town meeting so we all kind of agreed at that meeting in April that we were going to do this I backed down from the special town meeting kind of thing so the board passed the motion that I just read a few days later I sent the letter on April 26 to Jerry Diamond Tetus of the CV Fiber Governing Board and told him that we'd appropriated the $50,000 remember there'd be a $50,000 match and they were going to use that for connecting the underserved and unserved and water sometime after that probably a week or so maybe a little bit more somebody I don't know who's Linda sent to Karla boilerplate contract and the contract that I have sent out to you this afternoon and I didn't make copies of it I have one here if you want it I can share I don't have a copy of it but anyway I kind of filled in the blank where it said you know town and brackets I put town of Waterbury I put the $50,000 in and then as I read through this boilerplate it talked about the CV Fiber agrees to ensure compliance with all grant award terms and conditions so I went to attachment one which was also boilerplate and I kind of filled it in and I said that when you look at your email what I filled in is the yellow highlighted step so I filled in the blank looking back older minutes when Linda came here and said that there were 86 unserved and underserved homes in the town so I put 86 in they have an average cost to connect each home is estimated at $1,600 if you multiply 1,600 by 86 it comes to $137,600 so I said the town elects to contribute $50,000 about four funds and then I put in the provision that Roger had in his motion that the town reserves to write to review plans and specifications for these connections and then down at the bottom I summarized this and said okay $137,600 is the number they ask the town here if we want to connect community facilities I assume if this is going to go forward and there's going to be Fiber that goes right by here as opposed to Comcast Cable at some time we would do it but it wasn't part of our motion so I didn't add any of these things here I'm sure at a later date we can add them and pay for the connection if we need to so I left those as zero so $137,600 $50,000 from Haripa $50,000 from the matching funds so now we're up to $100 so I added a potential shortfall of $37,600 I don't know how that's getting funded and then I put in again the provision that this board talked about if all the funds appropriated from Waterloo remain unspent in this process the funds will be returned to Waterloo so this is ready to go I said in my memo to you that it's their boilerplate I'm not an attorney it looks pretty safe to me I've added these things so if the select board desires to you can authorize Mike to sign this he's the chairperson and there's a signature line for the chairperson of the town you can authorize Mike to sign this and what I would do then is send it to CD5 here's our signed agreement the things that are in yellow those are things that we added if you like it, you can sign it and send it back to us if you don't like the things that are in yellow and you have alternate language to propose send it back to me and don't sign it and we'll deal with it at the next meeting so anyway on that hand it's ready to go but I'm still uneasy about whether we really have the authority to spend this money and I in the email that I sent to Linda and Chris I told them, I said you know I'm not going to be around next year to answer for this so I did call actually not call so I not because of the CD5 but on April 20 I sent an email to Fred DiPlessie who is the lead accountant for Sullivan and Powers who does the Palace Audit and if you remember when we went through the budget process when we started budgeting in early January I was telling you that you couldn't use this money for traditional infrastructure stuff because it was going to be an infrastructure job or a bill coming down the pipe that the law contemplated municipalities figuring out how much lost revenue they had and you could use up to the amount of lost revenue that you identified for anything that you wanted and you could do that through your normal budgeting process and so I calculated our 2020 lost revenue one ended I asked Michelle the bookkeeper I said run this through the NEMRIC calculator that they had built the year before and Michelle couldn't remember exactly all the steps that she was supposed to do so she reached out to NEMRIC and somehow I had missed it but the person at NEMRIC said oh you don't have to bother with that anymore because Congress has changed the law and now the reality can consider up to $10 million of whatever they got from opera as lost revenue so you don't have to do the calculation anymore you just can appropriate it through your regular budget process so what we did in our regular budget process if you remember is we appropriated $100,000 for the ice center and then there's about $90,000 that I have going into the highway fund and there's some shortfalls in the highway budget so we've appropriated $190,000 plus the $600,000 that we're going to give to EFUD if they canceled out on us by not turning over the UDAC fund so anyway in April I got the scratch in my head and I was preparing for the audit process and if you look at our chart of accounts the general fund is fund 11 the highway fund is fund 12 the library is 13 and then the CIP funds are in the 70s and we've got the tax stabilization fund and when we get our audit back you know the general fund balance that the audit reports is 304 times higher than what I've shown so finally I figured it out guys what's in the general fund besides our fund 11 because I think our fund 11 has $100,000 of the fund balance and I could live with it if it was if you found that it was 80 or 120 based on tax collections but it shouldn't be $412,000 and they said oh well generally accounting generally accepted accounting principals that your highway fund is a general fund it's a general government operation your library is a general government operation so those three funds are the general fund the library and the highway are all just general fund money a bunch of the reserve funds like we have a restoration fund where money is coming from recordings and that's considered general fund money the money that we get for probably the money that we get for the reappraisal fund is from the air accounting standpoint it's a general government function so anyway so I wrote them an email and I said look given the significant changes in how the article funds can be used which is up to $10 million can be used for just general appropriations and we didn't do that this year so we've got $775,000 still parked in fund 87 and sometime this year the money will move $100,000 will come in and go out to the ice center $90,000 will come in and go to the highway fund the $600,000 for E5 will just stay there and then in the fall we're going to get another $775,000 so our total will be about $1.6,000 and we'll have spent about $200,000 of that right? so I explained the town received it's $269,000 on August 10th and then another one from the county of $500,000 in September so we had received $770,000 and I explained to them that the town select one has made a motion to consider the ARPA funds that we're going to use the lost revenue calculation in terms of our appropriations for it even though we still have until 2026 to spend it so I said can we simply call fund 87 part of the general fund so that way it's already part of the fund balance and when we get the next year's budgeting process it's there I said we already do that with several funds including the High Wing Library funds and I explained that the town said this so it would be easy for me so they didn't respond by email probably because they don't want to be held to it but Fred called me and he said well I understand what you want to do but you can kind of decide to spend all that money now by kind of substituting that for other things but that's a little complicated if you want to do what you're talking about you really should have the voters put it in the general fund because they're the legislative body of the town when it comes to budgets so I stopped him and I said well the select board voted a couple weeks ago to give $50,000 to CB5 and he said well was that in their budget and I said no they just voted on it at their last meeting and he said well the select board doesn't have the authority in Miami I mean he's not a lawyer either he's not going to sue us if we do it it might be a note in the next year's audit but he said it really should go through your budgeting process and I said well we talked to people at the LCT and Katie Buckley said that the law says it's the legislative body who has the final authority and he said well it does say that but he said in most of the country the city council is the legislative body they make the decisions but in Vermont the legislative body recommends a budget to the voters and they're really the appropriating body he said you know you put together a budget in January and bring it to the voters at town meeting the select board has approved it but if they amend the motion and cut $50,000 or $100,000 that's what it is so he said I think the town meeting that has to do this so I just bring this to you for your information it doesn't really I don't have strong feeling one way or the other if we live with what we said we were going to do with CVE Fiber and you want to sign this agreement you sign it the money will go to them and I'm sure that even though I will not be the municipal manager any longer I had always planned on being involved in the audit because most of the decisions that the auditors are going to be asking questions about will have been done while I'm here and since I expect I'll still be moving in and out out but I just want you to have kind of full information so there's three options there's one option that just let me finish you have authorized Mike to sign this and we just send it to him and have them look at the things that I added the second option is we send this boilerplate with my amendments to our own attorney and see what they have to say and the upside of that is that maybe they say something different the downside is it's going to cost a couple thousand dollars before you're done and then the third option is we tell CBFiber that we don't have the authority to do this we need to have a talent meeting we'll either do it next year or you call a special talent meeting before the end of this year sometime preferably sooner rather than later because they keep telling you that you know the money the matching money is kind of up for grabs and sooner that somebody latches on the more chance you get it so I don't need to drop this on you right now and if you want to think about I don't think it will harm anybody CBFiber Linda you know hasn't been bugging me about this I don't know if she's called you she hasn't emailed us about it about the contract okay I'm not going to other towns have done this though yeah at least two though I know the question I have are orders going to find this as a material witness a weakness in our audit well they've already found some material weaknesses that we'll be dealing with you know and the material weaknesses on the most recent talent audit which they'll be finalizing now I gotta remember what material weaknesses is going to be significant material weakness you know we don't have our own credit rating anyway it hasn't it hasn't been a problem when we've tried to finance anything with a bank or a bar bank and the weakness that they're talking about is my response was to the weaknesses I'm going to have to hire a consultant to come in and help us with how we post whatever it is and I can go in the other room and get it if you want to know what it is but as I told you before I'm pretty good with numbers and I'm pretty good with putting the financial statements together but I'm not a CPA and there's a couple of things that like probably has to do with capital spending or that's what it was it was grants so we get a grant and it's like you're supposed to you know credit the grant income line and then debit the deferred outflows or inflows line I don't even know what that is so I'm going to have to get somebody in here to help with that so I'm not really afraid of a material weakness like if they say there's no way to claw the money back the worst case scenario is the federal government could say you did this wrong you got to pay us the $50,000 back but I don't think likelihood of that is pretty slight now the way the offer money was spelled out it seemed like we had pretty much carte blanche especially with this yeah we do have carte blanche and Fred is agreeing with that but he's saying you have carte blanche through the legal process of the state of Vermont which is the town meeting gets to appropriate the money not the selective so that's we're a little off now having said that there have been plenty of examples over the years where nothing comes up a piece of equipment breaks or gets damaged in an accident we have to replace it it's not in the budget we go out and we buy it we tell the owners about it next year we carry the deficit forward and then we pay for it I mean the system that we have as much as I liked our meeting was created in the 1800s when you could look at the town report and all 75 orders of the select board were written in there most of it was putting ashes on the street to prevent people from slipping or on the sidewalk or a hundred dollar payment by the overseer of the poor for somebody so the system and the laws are not really haven't really caught up to practice so I feel it's my obligation to tell you what I know to be the case and if you decide you know what, we're going to live with the deal we're made with CD fiber and we'll deal with part of these questions later I can live with that I just don't want to not have any information initial thoughts or questions I think it sounds like it likely won't be a huge issue if we wait till next meeting and I wonder if it's worth revisiting that statue and reaching out again to some other folks to see if we can get a more solid answer I know a couple other towns have done it and so we can see maybe they've consulted we could talk to Linda about which towns those were and then revisit on the 20th I agree so if you want to do that then what I would offer is let's don't have mics on it let's at least send to CD fiber I have more to play with my amended language to make sure that they're okay with that and then tell them we're going to deal with this on the 5th of July if you're okay with this language get it back to us and I'll let them know I already let Linda and Chris know about what I just told you so I'll send this off to the CD fiber formally and tell them here's some amended language to try to capture Waterbury's feelings about this so why don't we do this I sent you all an email this afternoon that has this with the yellow language on it read through that to make sure that what I've said reflects what you believe the talent said try to get that back to me by Thursday or Friday just individual don't send it to everybody just send it to me and then if you say you got this wrong I'll try to work it out so get it back to me the next couple of days and then I'll get it off to them by the end of the week and tell them we've got to work this out I'll call Katie and I'll call maybe I'll talk to Ted Brady and if I have to I'll talk to an attorney that would be my last resort because I'm talking about anybody if I don't have to Do you need a motion? No I don't think so I appreciate you raising it and I guess the one I would say and I don't want to open another camera I think there's and maybe part of this will transition into part B was your intention being that any part of the process based on this understanding would need to be a budgeted item that was then approved by Tom Gating I just want to reflect to me that's the carry on thing I'm not an honor or an attorney I'm none of the things I guess to me that sounds like this BLCT is talking about it to be really candid and maybe that's me missing the nuance so I'm not disputing that it's wrong I don't know what it is I'm just saying to me it's funny even thinking about what I do during the day all we're talking about is use your ARCO funding as matching for this grant and different things and just the level of budget processing that this chain is unlocking feels a little different so that's just odd to me I'm not saying it's wrong but it does last forever and to me it makes sense maybe I'm reading or into it that I should but when when the Congress said you can use up to $10 million for slaps forever so what that means in my mind is that the $1.6 million that we receive simply drops into our general fund in its fund balance money at that point it's handled like every other guy every other budget so when I whoever presents the budget for the select board in January is going to say well we had a pretty good year we had a $200,000 fund balance oh by the way we've got $1.5 million over here and now we can deal with it and you've got to spend it by 2026 you've got to appropriate it by 2024 so the expectation is that you'll have some conversations with the voters about what things are important and then you can just fund it through the budget it doesn't have to necessarily be special articles or anything else and to me I think that's really kind of timely what I was going to talk about other uses is so if I find out that Fred is right that the voters are going to have to say move this money into the general fund and now it's a part of the general fund well we can make assumptions because unless you have a special town meeting the voters aren't going to do that until March so you could build a budget that you recommend to the voters to identify or to designate the ARPA money as general fund money and you could also build a budget that spends all or some of that fund balance if you will and help the voters make a decision on that at the same meeting it doesn't have to be one meeting to put it into general fund and then another meeting to spend it and we can do it all at the same meeting and that's how I would do it and again you don't have to spend it all at once you could say alright we've identified this as general fund money we have a general fund balance of $1.4 million and we're going to spend $750,000 in 2023 and we'll spend that fund balance next year in a budget process of course you might put it like that you could have groups out there circulating petitions asking you for special articles so I'll try to get more information but it's complicated Danny's right could I speak to that okay this is both for Carla and Bill what is the cost to the voters if we had a special election roughly it's pretty minimal because we produce our own ballots and it's relatively low turn and it's frankly we don't even have to produce a ballot because we have open town meetings so I do avoid you could you could warn a meeting for August 8th and deal with the CD5 or thing and deal with the rest of it saying it's going in the general fund there's not a lot of risk because the select board is the one that's putting the agenda together so you put the articles on it they could be voting down the select board could say something they could be amended that's the risk somebody says well let's give 300,000 to CD5 but that's unlikely to happen the challenge is that do you really want to do that because pretty typically special town meetings have really low turnout you could call a special town meeting for this room on a select board I'm just looking at more as a procedural matter to avoid some of the other issues that we may be facing somebody not doing things right but I see both sides that's what I want to avoid I don't want to get hung up on some technicality a problem down the road and without a special town meeting we would have to appropriate all the ARPA funding either next march or the following march that would be the last opportunity to have the appropriations done but we would have to get the appropriations done in the March of 2024 or a special meeting in December of 2020 we would have a whole town meeting so we will all have to bill individually regarding this contract by the end of this week and then forward it on you'll be in touch with the LCT and we'll double check so Carla can you also put this on the agenda for next week again and if Bill is contacting the CB fiber anyway I guess one question I just had is we made the $50,000 with the premise that's being matched $50,000 if we ended up ultimately spending less and then ask for less match I guess that's their problem with CB fiber applying to the community broadband board I just I mean I asked it to go from $75,000 to $50,000 because I didn't think we even were doing all $86,000 I just didn't know like is it a one time one time I think the likelihood that they're going to understand is minimal they asked for $75,000 I wouldn't get to hung up on that and you know if we haven't conditioned the $50,000 on the match we're hoping that there's a match available but if the match money runs out they can still spend our $50,000 and then they'll have a shortfall and again to your point you didn't know that we're going to connect all $86,000 I believe the motion that Roger made and the intent was you know you can spend some of this money but before you do anything we want to see what you're going to do that's really what you said still not convinced that this whole thing's going to work out different conversations anything else on CB fiber great so lastly we have bills added I then will consider the road management any other other issues conversation or is that more a table until we hear more let's wait until we hear more all I was going to say on the other uses is assuming that it's all general fund money and it has to be appropriated through the budgeting process that we don't have million dollar fund balances so my question was does the board want to start talking about how to use our money before your regular budget process starts in January yes right and I guess my question is I didn't know how much of that conversation we were having around is it just us as a board spending an extra million dollars or to what extent and how we're soliciting community input for that process part of the fall of conversation I just in my head thought that was what I think it changed I think it was and then it changed when this became before so I had written down to add it back to the parking lot for allocation of our fund conversation these meetings are public meetings so you can either just do it in a select board meeting or you can call a public information meeting or whatever but it's the same thing it's who shows up well and spending aside though that's one where there is more models from other communities I mean I went to the email like you can look at what town has created housing task force and how you can look at what communities have created an ARPA task force and how and I'm not saying we want to do any of those things but I think that's a worthwhile conversation for us to at least have are you ready to yeah so there's a state grant that we're eligible for that we've received money for a number of years this is for hydrologically connected municipal roads and Bill Woodruff has already taken care of all of this and he actually sent it in because we talked about it earlier in the psychology he's in Arizona right now and I guess he had a Bill Sheplik moment the other day and probably woke up in the middle of the night and said wow I wrote on the grant that Bill Sheplik was the authorized representative but what he signed it and sent it in so now he's freaking out that they're not going to accept it so if you can just make a motion to apply for the funding that's available through the municipal roads grant aid program for hydrologically connected municipal roads and authorized me to sign it I'll do it and send it in before the 24th currently you got that motion I'll make the motion just like Bill said perfect it's moved is there a second second moved and second is there further discussion excellent none all in favor aye any opposed excellent that was unanimous and that passes thank you for handling Bill one other thing I didn't seek to add this can I bring something up can we you're not going to have to take any action we're just going to talk about it so the budget included this community service officer that we're going to try to hire that will address issues like ordinance enforcement and the like the community service officer was budgeted to come on board sometime in July and the community service officer is the position was designed that it would report to the director of community services which is thick and I haven't I have not advertised for this position yet and I'm wondering if we should right now we're still a little up in the air in terms of personnel issues and if we hire somebody we're in a period of transition right so we may have this conversation down the line about other people but at some point does it make sense for me to be filling positions that somebody else is going to inherit and I'm wondering about A, you know I'm still skeptical based on the labor market right now and the challenges that we've had hiring other people for a fairly esoteric job description which anticipates the one person who's going to take this job is kind of going to be available seven days a week around the clock because if you get a call about somebody's dog you have to deal with that if you get a call about somebody who wants their rental housing unit inspected you got to deal with that if we're going to be having them you know try to address the issues that Gary was raising up at school so I'm not convinced we're going to get anybody for this position at the price that the wage is in the low 20s per hour so I just wanted to know whether you think we should move forward with it see if anybody's interested and then we can make a decision at that point I'm just looking for a little bit of direction from the board I did look at the budgets today there are some things that we know that we're going to be putting our budget in and some of them are personnel decisions that were made that will cost more than was in the budget we've spent 82% of our diesel fuel budget in the highway department and 62% of our gasoline budget in the highway department we're going to be at 100% probably by labor day gas price actually went down 10 cents up on 100 this morning we were seeing a up and down route 75 we know that they're going to stay up there and then we have a terrible month season right now I didn't do a full budget report but we're almost halfway through the year there's a significant portion of our budget that trails the calendar some of our debt service in the light but right now we're only about 37% spent almost 50% of the year there's other things that look pretty good so anyway I'm just tossing it out to see it's in the budget we can try to fill it we can make this decision later but I'm just kind of I'm not as excited about it right now given some of the other personnel issues that we have any thoughts, immediate thoughts? do you feel that you need those services rendered given the demand for those services right now? right now no so I'm the deputy health officer whether you know it or not I know it I've had in 2022 I've had three calls and that one was 25 below zero I talked to you about back in January and then I've had two other calls that have taken a little bit of time but they haven't been bad animal control we're not getting a lot of calls about that right now it's I do handle when there's a dog bite not as the animal control officer because I've got that but the health officer does have responsibilities if there's a dog bite I think you've had three or four dog bites this year none of which I've had to do anything except contact people and say okay keep your dog isolated for 10 days and please you know pay your dog license fee which most of them still haven't and that's where animal control officer at least in theory can go out and try to collect that from people and then the other one is the ordinance enforcement and frankly we haven't had a lot of call for that you know back in 2020 of the pandemic we had all the issues on Wash Hill at the boat launch we have issues on Sweet Road with the Hunger Mountain trail had but of late they haven't been too much we've got various problems I asked revitalizing Waterbury a couple of months ago if they would do a business survey about do the businesses want more enforcement of the time to parking ordinance and as as you know it's Waterbury so the results came back 29 28 0 0 just like everything else that is so classic so so the answer is no right now there's no I'm not feeling any pressure I need somebody to do this right away so from my perspective maybe saving that 20 grand can buy a few a few gallons of diesel fuel and then when whoever is sitting here in December and January the conversation can be had again so I guess my only concern on waiting is we felt in need enough to work to create the position then if we wait until the new person is here are they then not only trying to learn a big very difficult job and then also trying to deal with these things and we can't predict maybe there'll be no calls for another nine months but maybe things get crazy in the winter and all the stuff starts going on and we're like oh shit wouldn't it have been really nice if we hired and trained someone so I I'm curious how much time and resource how many time I'm trying to say time and resources that go into trying to advertise would it be worth putting out casting the net seeing if we get some bytes or does that feel like a big ass right now? No, putting advertising going through that process we advertise this job several years ago probably three years ago it was part time and no benefits and we had no papers at all I'm okay so we're just having a conversation and I appreciate I see both sides and I'm just looking for a little bit of guidance and stop saying or maybe keep saying that it's going to be something else's problem for it too long a time other thoughts or opinions or questions I agree a little bit with Bill I hate kicking the thing that began down the road a little bit but I also believe that we're going to have a new manager and they may have some perspectives as to what they want to see plus we probably with everything that's happened with the recreation directors kind of position maybe that needs to settle out again I don't like any municipal kind of ordinances going untattered but I don't know if we're going to get right now I just question it can't hire anyone for anything it seems like we want to know that until we I don't think that's a reason not to do it I think if we just think it's bad timing and we drive money elsewhere that's a good reason but just because we might not get candidate they don't think it's a solid reason not to try either way I definitely I do hear about dogs I guess maybe I get fewer emails than you and Mike so maybe they stick out more I mean I think it's hard I mean you know I live downtown I walk on the crossway I'm not saying I think that needs to be our top priority is having so many yellow people I mean I echo exactly what you said which is that I think having tried to hire a zoning minister and the planning commission and it was our candidate as if there isn't a cost I would say advertising but I also think if we're doing not just to say that we did it because it was a good thing to say to prove we really didn't get zero candidates that's absolutely a waste of all of our time I mean the advertising it's you know it's kind of cost a little bit to advertise but in the grand scheme of things that's that's not going to be the budget buster and you know clearly I recommended this position I thought there was a need so I'm just telling you that there's we're in a little bit different place than we were in December January when this was first talked about in a couple of different areas including you know some pressures on the budget that we didn't know so anyway I don't think maybe we can put a pause on this and revisit it in September see if there is a heightened need where we are in terms of budget thanks for that suggestion these will go up to $10 get mine plus we can ordinances parking now clean that up in the meantime great thanks Bill nothing else we'll entertain a motion to adjourn I just want to say one thing before we adjourn I just want to make a public acknowledgement to Carla I think it was really great I got a contact I can't think of a woman's name at the night it was like Friday night first night of my vacation and she was going to have her daughter married or something and she was getting married on Saturday and she didn't get the license we all got the begging it has to be from Saturday night I was up at camp and I said let me throw out I said I sent something to both Bill and Carla I said if Carla is not there which I knew she might not be maybe if Bill wound up seeing it he might get someone to do something and I yeah weekend Friday night right so I just want to really acknowledge Carla for going the extra mile and helping that woman out I'm great at your things you gave her my cell phone number I explicitly said I have to I didn't know where I was I thought I was ringing through I got my office calls and just shot on my cell phone it was a drag listen I were both like two thumbs up for Carla Gary Keeper was the response I got after to unfortunately those are the kind of things that always go unnoticed with Bill and Carla that's what town parks do so thank you thank you there's a huge wedding with a reception at the country couple from Vermont so I could very well say no you can't perform the ceremony I mean I guess they could have had one I just wouldn't have been there yeah a little ceremony and for forgiveness without the powers best of me I don't want to do a joke do we all vote on that? bye